# NFAA 20 Yard Scores



## centershot

Shot several more rounds this weekend. Friday night I got to the range and fired a quick 218, then went to a high scool basketball game. Went back after the game and fired another round a 205. Not pleased with that and thought I could do better and did. Last round was a 223, first 2 games were high seventys, then fatigue caught up with me and I ended up with a 223. No shooting Saturday (probably a good thing). But Sunday I got a chance to shoot another game, this one was a personal best 245. I felt really good on this round. I still shot a few 2's and 3's that hurt the overall score, but no zeros and lots of 5's and good overall groups. Hopefully I can keep it at this level and more. Picking up some new tricks as I read through 'Shooting the Stickbow'.

Anyone else doing any target shooting? Post up some scores and let's get better together.


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## SCS

194 last week. We're heading out tonight to try to improve!
Steve


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## centershot

Good deal SCS, I'm sure you'll improve. My scores Friday were the first ones shot at 20 yards since I started shooting Trad Bows just after Christmas. Started off with a 144 and 152 then. I'm pretty proud of adding 100 points to my scores. I've gone from 'poke and hope' to having a good idea what the proper sight picture, form and release feel like. Thanks to the help I've received on here. I still have along way to go, but by keeping track of the scores I can see improvement. I hope others will join in the fun.


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## innate123

Center: 

Nice shooting. I haven't been brave enough to even shoot a 10 yard score yet - lol. 

Are these scores with your newer lower poundage bow? I think you said you picked up a 30 pounder or so. 

t


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## centershot

Not exactly new lol, I'm shooting a 26# Howatt Cavalier that was hanging on the wall of our local club as an 'antique'. It's probably a '70's vintage, but still a nice shooting bow. I did pick up a Ragim Matix 62" 29# off ebay. I have not received it yet, but hoping it shows up soon for some weekend shooting.

It is kind of a tough pill to swallow posting scores. If you don't want to, no worries. I put mine up, because I really don't care and it gives experienced shooters something to gauge my shooting progress by. I personally think anything over 200 is pretty dang good for your first couple rounds. 

There is no shame is shooting at 10 yards, and feel free to post your scores at any range. I should probably spend some time at 15, but got impatient.....


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## dominator

*scores*

Your scores are exceptional IMO for your first few rounds. I have been shooting recurve without a sight for a few years now at an NFAA target. I have had some great breakthroughs this year. I am averaging about 265 and had a high of 277. Unfortunately, that doesn't transfer to tournament shooting where my nerves kill me. I am working on it though-Troy


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## Viper1

Center - 

Was that at 10, 15 or 20 yds? It's decent at 10, better at 15 and exceptional at 20 for a "newbie". 

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

All scores were shot at 20 yards - I got a bit impatient, skipped 15 and jumped to 20. The extra 10 yards sure magnifies errors........but is still lots of fun to shoot. Being fresh for the Sunday round was a huge part of that score. I had a good feel for the sight picture from Friday and felt relaxed and comfortable, not quite confident but getting there.

Excellent shooting Dominator........I'm hoping to shave another 20 point or so to get my scores in the respectable range. I kind of choked on the last end and shot a 15 - left an easy 5 points on the board. Got a bit amped up without it meaning anything, so dealing with tournament nerves should be interesting. I've shot next to the best compound shooter in the world (Rio Wilde) and had to keep talking to myself, and relying on form to calm down and still shoot my average. - Not that he gave a hoot who I was.........but I like to shoot next to the best shooters I can find when I get a chance. It really shook me up when I was younger, but now I really shoot against myself and try to shoot my average at a tournament. Easy enough to say, isn't it?


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## innate123

Center:

The reason I asked if it was your light weight bow, is because of all of the debate over starting weights. Didn't you start with a heavier poundage bow to begin with? 

I know that I wish I would have started with a 30# or at least a 35#'er even though I'm shooting fairly well with a 45#. I say "fairly" well because it is purely subjective. I'll shoot a round this weekend if I get my new field points in the mail. It will be a 10 yard round though - lol. 

I finally got a nice test kit for field tips and 30" GT5575's and it certainly shoots better arrows with 50 grain inserts and 145 and 175 grain tips respectively. I think with Stu's calculator as a guage, I'm less than a pound off via calculator. I don't bare shaft, but will try to shoot them through paper this week if possible before I decide what weight points to go with. I know my 125 grain heads are not flying well with the higher spine shafts. 

t


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## Viper1

center - 

By today's standards, 220's at 20 yds is pretty respectable. The 240's are certainly do-able and beyond that the points do get harder and harder to come by, but by no means impossible. 

Whatever you're doing. KEEP DOING IT!

BTW - shooting your average at a tournament is (IMHO) the best way of thinking about it. Later on, we can discuss a few match-prep exercises, if you're so inclined.

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

Innate123, I shot my 45# bow about 25 times and knew I was in way too deep. I lucked out and was able to borrow some bows that were hanging on the walls at the local archery club. All I had to do was buy strings, put on new rests and get arrows. I tried a 40#'er early in my shooting but could just tell I'm working way too hard just holding it back to concentrate on anything else. I finally started shooting a kiddy weight 26#'er and have been using it ever since. I might be able to get several good shots from the 40#er now (after 1000+ shots on the 26#er) but I have no doubt I would be struggling after only a few (20-30) shots. Not nearly enough repetition to work on form (for me at least).

Viper1, Thanks, I owe a great deal of that score to you. A book by Lenny Bassham "With Winning in Mind" I read a few years ago has helped with tournament nerves. I've been trying very hard to create and run a program. Form has saved me more than point or two. I'm just into the enhanced tuning section in the book and dutifully reading page by page. I keep wanting to skip ahead to the aiming section, but still holding out. Much of the info relates back to compounds and I can comprehend at least the theory. 
Give me a while to get a solid foundation, then we can get into some tournament secrets. Thanks, and to anyone that does not have the book "Shooting the Stickbow" - GET IT! It's under $20 and you can get it from Amazon. Shooters from Beginner to Expert, target shooters and hunters alike can learn from this modern, easy to read, and information packed book. You will not spend a better $20 on archery gear.


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## Greenarrow1

Shot my best score 202 last Friday. I also have Viper's book use as a reference.


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## innate123

I seem to be doing ok with the 45#'er. I wanted to go lower but Viper insisted I start with 45#.

Ok, for those of you not smart enough to figure that out, I was kidding as Viper forewarned me that I went too heavy initially and I certainly do fatigue physically sooner than I do mentally. 

I think Center's progress, and yes, he seems REALLY dedicated, has shown that there are only benefits to going with a lighter bow to begin with. 

t


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## centershot

Good shooting Greenarrow1, Maybe we should add what bow/arrow combination we are using.


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## BLACK WOLF

dominator said:


> Your scores are exceptional IMO for your first few rounds. I have been shooting recurve without a sight for a few years now at an NFAA target. I have had some great breakthroughs this year. I am averaging about 265 and had a high of 277. Unfortunately, that doesn't transfer to tournament shooting where my nerves kill me. I am working on it though-Troy


Ditto...that is the hardest thing to overcome. Sounds like we shoot about the same...at least in regards to score and dealing with nerves.

How are you working on calming your nerves?

Ray :shade:


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## mesquite

can somebody give me a quick run down of how the typical NFAA 300 round works? I always hear talk about it but I never understand how the scores work. The NFAA website isn't the best designed either IMO and I can't seem to find a simple explanation of the rules. Just thought it would be nice to use this as a tool to monitor my progress.


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## SCS

NFAA indoor target at 20 yards, 12 rounds of 5 arrows, scored 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from the center out.
I shot again last night. Boy, that sucked! Couldn't pull through the shot at all. 
Steve


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## centershot

I hear you SCS, I shot a 216 last night, ouch. I tuned my bow to shoot a decent hole through paper, and in the process filled my mind with doubts about my setup...........not conducive to shooting a good score.


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## Viper1

Guys - 

I have a little shock for ya: Given the amount of time you've been shooting stickbows, you are NOT doing badly at all. The fact that you are doing it, speaks volumes. 

There's a world of difference between flingin' arras and playing a game where every shot counts. 

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

Thanks Viper1, I appreciate the encouragement.


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## young hunter

centershot said:


> Shot several more rounds this weekend. Friday night I got to the range and fired a quick 218, then went to a high scool basketball game. Went back after the game and fired another round a 205. Not pleased with that and thought I could do better and did. Last round was a 223, first 2 games were high seventys, then fatigue caught up with me and I ended up with a 223. No shooting Saturday (probably a good thing). But Sunday I got a chance to shoot another game, this one was a personal best 245. I felt really good on this round. I still shot a few 2's and 3's that hurt the overall score, but no zeros and lots of 5's and good overall groups. Hopefully I can keep it at this level and more. Picking up some new tricks as I read through 'Shooting the Stickbow'.
> 
> Anyone else doing any target shooting? Post up some scores and let's get better together.


205 is a heck of a lot better than the last round I shot.... 102ukey:


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## eric96

My best indoor score to date has been a 218.


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## DwayneR

It is DAMMMMMMM good to see more people shooting paper and scoring themseleves. 

You have a starting point and a place to improve.

Now, when you hear people claim they hit all their arrows in a 3 inch group at 20 or 25 yards, you know they are full of it.

The record is a score of 291 292 or 293 (I can't remember) barebow.

I have hit every 270 score there is. . .I haven't broken the 280 mark. But just getting to the 270's takes excellent form from start to finish.

Anything in the 200's is very good, especially when starting out.
245 is very very good also. That is not a easy mark to hit. that is saying that you are placing all your arrows in the 4 ring on average. 

Dwayne


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## mfeit3

I'm getting a lot out of this thread. The club I shoot at is about 80% compound, and another 18% Olympic style shooters. I started shooting this Summer after a 20 year hiatus. At this point I've been only working on competing against myself, but it is nice to see what a reasonable range of scores should be. The guys in my club are almost practicing an entirely different sport and it is impossible to use them as a yard stick.

On a happy note I kept track last night and hit a 228 at 20 yards, which beat my previous best by 5 points.


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## centershot

I'm also glad to hear more folks join in. It's fun and a good reason to try to get better. I hope more will at least try it. If you post a score, great, if not - no biggie there either, at least you know what your shooting. - Nothing to be ashamed of, and if your showing improvement - hey, that's something to be proud of in my book.


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## ebonarcher

Please do not color me stupid here.
What are you shooting, bow/make/model ?
Which target 40cm fita or 60cm or ?


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## centershot

The target face were talking about is the standard NFAA single spot. It is a 40cm blue face shot a 20 yards. (10 or 15 yards if you'd like) Available at most archery or sporting goods stores for around a buck. The bow I'm shooting is a 70's Howatt Cavalier, 26# 62" AMO w/ 29" 1716's. Pretty much shoot what ever you want - it's nothing official, just having fun shooting bows.


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## Two Blade

How do you score this? Lancaster has these for 30 cents apiece. Are you using the same target over and over for your shooting?


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## mfeit3

The entire middle white area is 5, the next ring 4,then, 3,2,1. The x circle isn't worth more but the total number of x's is tracked to break ties.


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## Two Blade

mfeit3 said:


> The entire middle white area is 5, the next ring 4,then, 3,2,1. The x circle isn't worth more but the total number of x's is tracked to break ties.


Thanks.:darkbeer:


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## lazy ike

Just bought some NFAA indoor faces but have not shot the NFAA round yet. About a month ago I shot the fita 40 cm target 300 round( about the same size rings, but 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 scoring and 30 arrows(10 ends of 3 ). Shot for score about 7 times. Started out at 206 and last 3 were 239,241,240. I hope to be able to match those last three on the NFAA round. I'll just have to mentally muscle-up a bit for the higher number of arrows per end. It's nice to have a benchmark for comparison and a way to track progress!!


Ike


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## centershot

The FITA face scored as 5 (full yellow) 4, 3, 2, 1 .......and shot 60 times will be pretty close to the NFAA round. Fatigue does sneak up on you shooting 60 times. I have to be aware of getting lazy about 2/3 of the way through my rounds and avoid the soft shots.

I shot a 228 NFAA last night. I had to change up a bit and shoot 5 ends of 4 arrows each (only had 4 fletched arrows). It may have cost me a point or two, but was a good exercise none the less.


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## lazy ike

O K shot the NFAA face at 20 yds today outdoors with good conditions and very little wind. My goal was to break 240. Well I shot a score that I'm not sure I can match........261 !!! I really thought that 5 arrow ends would make me deteriorate(spelling?) but I actually got a bit better as the round progressed.
I shot a 45 lb recurve, off the shelf, split finger, no sights. Mentally though, 60 straight scored arrows was pretty hard , but I was able to really focus the last two arrows and got 2 X's. I had 10X's total. Now could I do that in competition ? Don't know but I may have to give it a try.


Ike


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## landrylm

Shot my first two this week as well, both from 10yds. First time was a 203 with a 40cm target face. Today I used a 20cm target face and got a 168. Despite the lower score, I'm actually more satisfied with today's score since overall I got better groupings and heard the ring of aluminum v aluminum quite a few times. I also shot today's round after having shot for almost 2 hours previously.


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## Viper1

Ike - 

Ya better change you're name - don't think it holds any more.

Congrats, that's averaging just a little under 22/end :darkbeer:

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

Very nice Ike........keep it up!


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## lazy ike

Thanks Viper. I just wanted to stay around 20 points per end. I ended up with 6 ends of 22 or better. My worst ends were the 3rd , 4th , and 5th(a 19,20,20).I had two ends of 24, one of which the 4 arrow was 1/8th " out of the 5 ring. I had shot seven ends before a buddy of mine showed up. He sat down on the bench and watched me. I thought this might screw me up a little but the last 5 ends were 21,21,22,24,23. I did shoot this with the limb-mounted clicker. I think the clicker may have to stay for a while.....

Don't think I'll change my handle though.... I'm still lazy as hell !


Ike


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## Viper1

Ike - 

There are a couple of exercises that can really help with the physical part of competition (and indirectly the mental part). If you're serious about going into it, let me know.

Viper1 out.


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## kegan

It warmed up just enough to go out and shoot this morning. I scored a whopping 146 with "Sweet Imperfections", with numerous fliers that shouldn't have been (ie I did everything right and I know I did:lol. 

Hmm, methinks this is a real eye opnener and is going to be very helpful in making my longbows more forgiving.

Base score is set... go!


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## lazy ike

Thanks centershot. 

Viper... By serious about getting into it do you mean competing or serious about training to get better ?
I would really like to shoot NFAA , I'm just not sure how many clubs around Baltimore Md have shoots. Probably a lot more than I realize. The club I belong to had , at one time ,one of the nicest field courses around this part of the country. Seems , now-a-days , all anybody wants to shoot is 3D. I really like 3D but I also like shooting dots at Known ranges. One other thing that gives me pause.....If I shoot with the clicker , I'll have to shoot in barebow class, and that might mean a steady diet of getting smoked unless I learn string walking.

Kegan, That 80lb bow must get really brutal by about the 8th or 9th end.


Ike


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## kegan

In this weather it makes everything after the second shot feel like my fingers are going to fall off. Not really conducive to a good release:lol:


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## ronroettger

Just finished shooting My first score of the year. Handicap week for our league, we shoot 10 more weeks. I shoot a 60# flatbow/ wood arrows all year, except when shooting my NFAA score then I switch around with different bows tonight I grabbed the 45# Ben Person Colt I got in 1972 for my 12th birthday. It started out well with my 1st warm up shot in the "X" after 12 warm up shots I shot a 217. (72,68,77) best end was a 20 (5 times)worst was a 15. No 0's or 1's but Seven 2's. My wife was shooting her compound (3rd year shooting, and has not touched her bow in 5 months) shoot a 244. We also start our indoor 3-D league this week where I will be using the flatbow. going Deer Hunting on Wed. also.


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## Viper1

Ike - 

It seems like you have the "shooting better" part well under way. I mean seriously competing. Actual match play is a little difference from a more relaxed setting. And yes, it will turn some on the fun into work. (You may still have to loose the "lazy" moniker.) 

However, with a 261 under your belt, I'd start looking for matches or leagues. 

Viper1 out.


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## lazy ike

Viper....competition is what I thought you meant. I used to shoot Police pistol matches ( no I'm not a Cop )and USPSA ( run and gun ). I Know that there is a heck of a difference between practice round scores and match scores. I was able to make high master class in ppc in the 600 round( by 2/10ths of a point). 
One time, at a USPSA match in PA, I was getting ready to shoot a stage and my buddy says " Don't screw up, Todd jarret (nine time world champion ) is watching you. I somehow just put it on autopilot and cruised thru that stage with the 6th fastest time of the match. I still don't know what dark place I pulled that from........

Anyway , maybe you're right. It would be fun to compete again , and would be a good reason to get that 40lb metal riser bow I've been thinking about. Then again I could probably get my feet pretty wet with the bow I already shoot.

I would be interested in those excersises if you want to post them. 


Ike


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## Viper1

Ike - 

The purpose of the "exercises" is to turn the "real" match into a non-event. The mental part is tied a lot closer to the physical than a lot of people believe. So what I do with (to?) people is make the practice HARDER than the match. The exact exercises vary from person to person (victim to victim?).

I think the regimen would scare the daylights out of most people, PM me if you want them.

Viper1 out.


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## Boston Bowman

Speaking of victim.... I've been practicing in the bsmt this winter (11 yrds)
Saw this thread so I shot a round. got a 262 first try. I was feeling pretty good about myself. Did my 1st 3D this yr on Sunday. I fell apart.. I shot right by a foot every time.

I guess accuracy is rented not owned..I'll be reading Viper's book today "Shooting the Stickbow" to break it all down again.


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## Viper1

Gents - 

I've already gotten a few emails on these exercises, they are not for the faint of heart and if you think I'm insane, you're right.

Match Prep

Indoor 300 NFAA Spot

1. Establish a “zero condition” baseline. Shoot the 12 ends of five arrows each at a single spot target set at shoulder height. Shoot at a leisurely pace. Do this for several months until you establish a baseline or “average score” of at least a 240. (The two std practice ends are optional.)

2. Be able to shoot TWO full matches back to back without tiring. (Our record was FIVE, we didn’t leave the range till after 2AM that night!)

3. Once your average has been established, impose a time limit. 4 minutes for five arrows is standard. If this is no problem go to number 4. (This is more of an issue for Olympic sight/clicker shooters than most barebow or traditional shooters.)

4. Once #3 is accomplished, increase the number of arrows to SIX or SEVEN per end, and do not score the last one or two. (I use different nock colors to denote the last arrows.) At this point, disregard the time limit.

5. When your stamina has developed to a point that the seven arrows is no longer a problem, reinstitute the time limit. If at any time you find yourself fatiguing or consistently running out of time, temporarily extend the time limit and gradually reduce it again.

6. Same as above, but start with the target at shoulder height and after 6 ends, lower it approximately 2’. Alternate with the target starting in the low position and after six ends going to the high position.

7. When the above has been accomplished, shoot the match with seven arrows, but discount the two HIGHEST scoring arrows. As cruel as this sounds, it puts you in framework for what can happen at a bigger match when things aren’t as comfy. 

8. I KNOW this isn't practiced much any more, but it was pretty much the norm, at least in some of my old haunts. No, we didn't have things listed out like this, it just evolved and we shot and shot and shot. 

9. Another exercise for advanced shooters is to use part of the above regimen using only bareshafts. LOL, I had one guy who actually shot better with the bareshafts, OK, he was scary ... I do this every few months (just before I have to have a fletching party).

10. BTW - The last range I used had a 40 yd (indoor) option, shooting a 300 at 40 yds on the regulation sized target was a pretty big eye opener, even with an Oly bow. 

Again, the thing is to make the real competition seem like a non-event. 

The last thing to consider is dealing with distractions - save the for later.

Viper1 out.


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## lazy ike

Viper , I was just about to PM you when I read your last post. Pretty involved stuff!! 
I,m going to sign up for the vegas style indoor that I shot with c bow and shoot it barebow. Also I think that there is a tuesday night NFAA shoot at a club that is only about 20 min from here . I'm going to look into it . If I'm having fatigue 
issues(physical or mental) I'll try some of the drills

Thanks for all the info.....


Ike


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## centershot

I don't think I'm quite ready for that beating Viper1..........I did shoot 2 more regular 20 yard rounds last night. First one a 232 and the second another 232 - How's that for consistant? No 0's or 1's on either game, but a few 2's haunted me. When I do shoot a 2 it's a pluck, loss of focus or other brian fart......just need to get rid of those and push that 240 mark! I did shoot a 24 on one end, just barely missed with the other arrow. I would really like to get all 5 arrows in the 5! Anybody else been shooting?


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## Viper1

Ike - 

I shoot the Vegas 3 spot with a target bow, but an not a fan of it barebow. Too few arrows per end to get into a rhythm. Also not crazy about the colors blending into each other after a while. If you can do it, I'm impressed. You might want to try the extra arrow thing. You might be ready for it.

Also, remember to base your expectations on your AVERAGE, not your high score. I've seen too many people expect to "rally" for a match - doesn't work. 

Center - 

You're right on track, this stuff doesn't happen over night, I think you should be pretty happy with your progress. And there will always be flyers - the trick is to keep them in an acceptable scoring ring 

Nice going. 

Viper1 out.


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## lazy ike

Center, that's good shooting !! Keep it up.

Viper , I guess the reason I was thinking of shooting the vegas league is because it's a place where I feel relatively comfortable. I think they will let me shoot it on the fita single spot. When I was shooting the league with a c bow, there was a guy shooting the single spot face with an oly bow.

I did try a couple of things today . I shot a couple of ends at 40 yds. the friend I was shooting with wanted to move back to 20 yds. I was encouraged though, the first 40 yd end was a 20 the next a 19. So , when he wanted to move to 20 I didn't argue cause I figured I was going to have a tough time matching those first two.

We spent a lot of time shooting in the woods today and when we came back up to the practice bales I shot 6 or 7 ends at 20 yds. I had two in the 3 ring , all the rest were 4's and 5's. This was at the end of a 5 hour shooting day.

The back to back matches sounds like just the sort of sick thing I might like. I'll let you know how it goes.


Ike


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## ronroettger

*week #2 improvement*

After a week one score of 217 I shot my wk. # 2 score of 231 (80,76,75) best end was 23 low was 15 no 0's or 1's but six 2's (four X's) hope to improve again next week.


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## centershot

Good shooting Ron, I shot 2 more rounds this weekend with my new Ragim 29# bow. First one a 232 and the second a 235. Right in my average for the last 6 rounds. This bow is only 3# heavier than the other one I was shooting, but I could definitely feel it. The extra speed is readily apparent and I did miss a few high........but overall like the bow.


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## SCS

Went out last night and tried this with a different bow/arrow set up.My goal was to break 200. Shot a 221! The down side is my form really sucked last night. If I can straighten that out, I'm sure it'll get better yet.
Steve


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## Viper1

Gentlemen - 

The progression of scores we're seeing here parallels what was commonplace 30 and 40 years ago in clubs and ranges all over the country. It's sad that more people haven't (or won't) "take the plunge" and give a shot. It's not that hard to do and the rewards are numerous. 

Congratulations! :thumbs_up

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

Went the wrong way on my last few rounds......218, 220 and 218. Got to quit messing with stuff and 'get back to basics' (just read that section in the book) and just relax and shoot.


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## Viper1

Center -

As much as we want our progression to be linear, it's not and never will be. You guys are doing fine. 

Here's a suggestion. Once YOU feel that your form is solid, and you have basic tuning done, shoot a match with ONLY bare shafts (you might want to try this at a closer distance first). If you understand what arrow strike patterns represent, the bare shafts will act as a silent coach - telling you exactly what you did wrong.

Viper1 out.


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## LongStick64

How many arrows per round are you shooting. And how many rounds.


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## Sanford

LongStick64 said:


> How many arrows per round are you shooting. And how many rounds.


For me, as many as it takes to get my desired score  Just kidding. The 300 Round is 12 ends (rounds) of 5 arrows. Usually, you shoot 6 ends on a higher placed target and then 6 ends on a lower placed target. With the white center being 5 points, max score is 300 (5 points x 60 arrows). Could you break it up into 6 arrows, 10 rounds? I have for my own purposes.


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## JV NC

Well.....I must like the looks of the kool-aid. I picked up 6 or so targets, today....and I'm gonna start out shooting a 10yd round.

I have no idea how I'm gonna score. But the threads intrigued me. Probably shoot 5-6 rounds at 10yds before I go to 15.

Don't know what's "good" at 10, 15 OR 20. But I'll post up what I shoot.


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## centershot

It's been suggested that 240+ average at a given range is time to move to the next range. When you get to that level at 20 yards you'll be shooting better than most. Really good shooters are in the 260-280 range at 20 yards.


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## Old Sarge

JV NC said:


> Well.....I must like the looks of the kool-aid. I picked up 6 or so targets, today....and I'm gonna start out shooting a 10yd round.
> 
> I have no idea how I'm gonna score. But the threads intrigued me. Probably shoot 5-6 rounds at 10yds before I go to 15.
> 
> Don't know what's "good" at 10, 15 OR 20. But I'll post up what I shoot.


JV, from reading your other posts it seems you are primarilly a hunter so this will be a big adventure for you. Believe me if you take the time to work on your form to get good at this it will only help your 3D and your hunting. For many years I've participated in all types of shooting, hunting, 3D, NFAA indoor and outdoor, and even a little OLY style. It all ties together and will make hitting that deer even easier for you. Not only that but you are taking on a new challenge that you will find to be fun and educational.

Good luck with your new adventure!


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## JV NC

Do you get bonus points for speed?

I'm done.

I tried on every arrow (did my best). I've probably shot 8-10X, since I took my buck. But.....no excuses.

This was at 10yds, in my basement.

268/18X

No perfect ends (25's).


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## Old Sarge

JV NC said:


> Do you get bonus points for speed?
> 
> I'm done.


Nope!


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## JV NC

Sarge:

Yeah. I'm just a hunter! (said very jokingly). So I have absolutely NO idea how I'm supposed to gague myself.....except against myself. I will say that ANY excuse to fling arrows....I'm all for.

2nd round - 10 yds.

Off on the x-count. Up on the score.

276 - 11X



> It's been suggested that 240+ average at a given range is time to move to the next range.


I can see that. I just haven't been shooting NEARLY as much as I normally do. I'm going to shoot 3-4 more 10yd games and then go back to 15. I can still get 15yds in the basement.


----------



## Two Blade

This is pretty fun. First time ever shooting for a score and at 10 yards, I shot a 256. I know that can/will be improved upon. Tony, you were right when you said that the blue/white target is easy to focus on.


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## JV NC

I'm also not "warming up". Just starting my scoring with my first arrow. Probably doesn't make much diff. Just nothing that.


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## Sanford

JV NC said:


> I'm also not "warming up". Just starting my scoring with my first arrow. Probably doesn't make much diff. Just nothing that.


If your 10 yards are grouping enough to give you 276, which is dang good, that will probably translate to ~240-ish at 20 yards. Also, the target is going to become more familiar. I say you will be up there with a highly competitive score at 20 yards in pretty short order, if not already. Top of the game in the 270s at 20 yards? Not many can do it, but some can.


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## centershot

That's great Shooting JV NC....I'd say move back while you still have some arrows that are not all beat up. I shot a couple ends at 10 yards the other day and quit because I did not want to ruin any. Ten yards a couple weeks ago was tough, now it's a breeze. I hope some day to be able to do/say that for 20 yards.....keep shooting, it's all good.


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## Old Sarge

JV, good job. Good scores for your first attempt. Don't worry about it only being 10 yards, the main goal is to shoot, work on the form to develop consistency and the scores will take care of themselves. I agree totally with the "any excuse to fling arrows" that's why we love this sport. 

Once you get back to 20 yrds and have enough scores for a reasonable average then the real fun starts when you take the challenge to get better and better. 

Good luck and keep flingin!!


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## BLACK WOLF

JV NC said:


> 276 - 11X
> 10 yrds.


Nice job! It's great to see other bowhunters shoot the NFAA 300 round...even if they do a half round or shoot it from a closer distance!
:thumbs_up

Ray :wink:


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## J. Wesbrock

I was going to shoot a 300 round today at 40 yard, but only got half of it done before people started showing up who wanted to shoot at 20 yards. It was fun, but I wasn't too sure what to expect for score, since I've never shot a 300 round at any distance other than 20 yards.

I sure wish it was warm outside so I could go hit the field course again.


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## Str8 Shooter

Jason, we need to hook up on a field course. Let me know when you're going to any in the Norther IL/ Southern WI area. I gave it a go last summer and loved it.

I've shot 8 300 rounds in the last month or so. One in competition (274 w/ 17x), a few for local league, and some practice. Average is 273, lowest 263, best 282 w/ 18x. Somedays they get old but the are great for developing form and maintaining consistency.


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## JV NC

I'm having fun. And, it's prompting me to shoot. No harm in any of that.

I shot a winter online 5-spot league, one year....and did fairly well. I think it's mental (this target game). I get caught up in my "spot" not being small enough.

I've shot a few 3's and even a 2 so far (a 2 in the first game). That was pitiful!....lol

I'm not sure I had a 3 in the last game. Too many 4's, though.

Hey....I'm no target shooter. But, I'll post up each and every one I shoot. I'm betting I'll find out some things about my shooting as I go through this. I can already tell you I'm not conditioned to shooting 60 arrows like I was last fall, when 100+ arrows wasn't unusual. I had to bear down on the last few ends, yesterday. My last end was actually my best.

Should be interesting. I'm shooting a vegas face with some guys from another forum (I think). I got REALLY frustrated doing that (10yd league), last year. But I know it'll be better, this year.

I guess the point of all this is.......SHOOT! MAke it fun.


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## J. Wesbrock

Str8 Shooter said:


> Jason, we need to hook up on a field course. Let me know when you're going to any in the Norther IL/ Southern WI area. I gave it a go last summer and loved it.
> 
> I've shot 8 300 rounds in the last month or so. One in competition (274 w/ 17x), a few for local league, and some practice. Average is 273, lowest 263, best 282 w/ 18x. Somedays they get old but the are great for developing form and maintaining consistency.



Our local club usually does a field shoot every year, although I don't see it on their schedule yet. They're just outside Sycamore, IL, about an hour from the WI border. I'm not sure who else around here puts on field shoots anymore.

www.kishwaukeearchers.org


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## BLACK WOLF

J. Wesbrock said:


> Our local club usually does a field shoot every year, although I don't see it on their schedule yet. They're just outside Sycamore, IL, about an hour from the WI border. I'm not sure who else around here puts on field shoots anymore.
> 
> www.kishwaukeearchers.org


I grew up in your neck of the woods and use to be a member at Black Hawk Field Archers.

Look them up.

Just found a link

http://www.blackhawkfieldarchers.com/

Ray :wink:


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## J. Wesbrock

BLACK WOLF said:


> I grew up in your neck of the woods and use to be a member at Black Hawk Field Archers.
> 
> Look them up.
> 
> Just found a link
> 
> http://www.blackhawkfieldarchers.com/
> 
> Ray :wink:


I remember you mentioning that a few years ago. Blackhawk is a great club. Their annual traditional shoot is one of my favorites every year.


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## JV NC

Round 3....

274/18X

Couple more....and I'm moving back.


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## lazy ike

*Back to back*

O K viper , I tried the back to back rounds today. Shot outside , it was not windy temps in the high 20's.

First round.....262 9X's

no break between

Second round....258 11X's

This time I was shooting 3 under with clicker. tenth end of my second round was my first 25!!!

Ike


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## mesquite

Man I can't wait to get on this with you guys. I was a bit careless with my first set of carbon arrows stump shooting and so I've been without any arrows for almost... crap, a month now lol. I'll be having money again to buy some soon and I can't wait to try this out. Don't be to harsh on me though if my score doesn't even break the 100 mark, I've only shot for about two weeks with a month break lol. But then again, I suppose as archers we should be competitive friendly but not worry too much about others scores. I'm glad to see that there are some people who are striving to be accurate archers as I hope to one someday too.


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## steve morley

I shot a Indoor tourney on Sat, Flint round scoring 215 and followed by a 300 round which I scored 235 (Longbow+woodies), I was quite pleased with win and scores as I have not practiced these rounds in a while.:darkbeer:


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## ronroettger

*went backwards this week*

after last weeks improvement. I slipped back alittle. I shot a 220 this week. (70, 83, 67) low end was a 15 best was a 23. the first 2 week no shots scored less than a 2 this week I hade 3- 1's I was happy with the middle game my ends were (20,23,20,20) something to build on. Keep up the great shooting all.


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## JV NC

Steve:

I just added up what it would take (per end) to shoot 235.

That's (basically) averaging 4's.

I know very little about target archery......but that's impressive (considering 60 arrows).

One day!


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## steve morley

JV NC said:


> Steve:
> 
> I just added up what it would take (per end) to shoot 235.
> 
> That's (basically) averaging 4's.
> 
> I know very little about target archery......but that's impressive (considering 60 arrows).
> 
> One day!


Thanks. for Lonbow with woodies it is respectsble. the IFAA Lonbow record is 264 so I have a long way to go. I did shoot a lot of these rounds in the past and got some good scores but I dont enjoy it as much as being in the woods, being on a line fihting for space during a tourney just is not fun for me. It is one of the hardest rounds (focus wise), strange considering its only 20y


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## Luv2shoot

Made a MAJOR BREAK THROUGH last night at our Monday night league. 
Over the last 4 weeks my scores on the 300 round have been 242, 246, 244, & 242. Very consistent but just not getting any better.
Last night I changed from a high wrist to low wrist jusdt to see if it would be easier to hold steady in the later rounds ( with the high wrist I would start breaking down after about 40 shots ).
Finished the round with a 267 and that was with a "1" during the second end. 
I have always shot with the high wrist and it has not been an issue shooting at the 3D shoots or in the back yard when I only shot 25 to 40 shots but the 60 arrows on this indoor will show you any issues when you get weary.
My indoor bow is 45 pounds at my draw length and I would like to get some 40 pound limbs to see if I could do a little better.
Thanks,


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## Viper1

Luv - 

That's a pretty std reaction. The high wrist takes time to get used to and for most people just doesn't offer any real benefits. The low wrist has increased stability and that can make a difference. 

However, not to rain on your parade, don't discount the new toy syndrome or just having a good night too quickly. See what happens over the next few weeks. 

Nice work!

Viper1 out.


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## Luv2shoot

Viper,
You may be right about the new toy syndrome and only time will tell.
The big difference for me using the low wrist was in the later rounds. Over the past month I have always shot the first half about 8 to 12 points better than the last half. With the low wrist I felt strong for the full 60 shots. I also know that the low wrist changed my draw length about 1/2" droping the poundage a little. 
Now if I can just get rid of that 1 or 2 bad shot each week every thing else will work out.
Thanks again for the reply


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## Viper1

Luv -

That's exactly it! The high wrist is usually touted as beneficial for minimizing torque, while the low wrist remains stronger longer, as it require less work to maintain. IMHO, learning to completely relax the bow hand while using a low wrist (regardless of the bow's grip style) is the way to go. Still it's one on those cases, where it's what works that counts. 

If you figure out how to get rid of those flyers, please let me know!

Viper1 out.


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## JV NC

I shot my 1st 15yd round, today.

259/15X


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## Luv2shoot

JV NC,
That's a great score for 15 yards. You should be ready to move back to 20yds and give it a go. It will drop your score some but it will come back up.
Great shooting and keep up the good work.
Luv2shoot


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## lazy ike

J V N C I think you are ready for 20 yds no problem. I'll bet you will shoot 240 plus.
I'm going to try it at 30 yds this week just to make the 20 yd shooting seem like it's easier. I'm hoping at 30 yds I can shoot around 200 I'd just really like for all 60 arrows to score.


Ike


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## Str8 Shooter

Nice shooting, Steve. I never did try a 300 round when I shot longbow/woodies. BTW, thanks for the info.

Flyers are the death of a great score. For me, it's learning when to let down on a shot that doesn't quite feel right. I usually know when it's going to be a flyer as the string is coming off the bow. 

I'm planning on shooting at State Indoors this year so I've been shooting a lot of 300 rounds. I had to take a break last week, starting to get burned out looking at the white bullseye. I shot a half-round at 40 to work on form/follow-through (104/150) and another half-round at 10 (150/150-24X). Some indoor 3D for fun and regular league on Sunday. Good day, 277 w/16X, one spaz out end w/ two 3's and three 5's.


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## travski

well guys I tried a round of 300 on a five spot target, could not find any of the single spot targets at the club. This was my first try at this 20 yards, barebow, shot a witnessed 284 with only 9x's. My buddy did not fair so well he shot a 147 beside me and was pretty upset with himself and me.

This shooting with out sights is getting better all the time


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## JV NC

> well guys I tried a round of 300 on a five spot target, could not find any of the single spot targets at the club. This was my first try at this 20 yards, barebow, shot a witnessed 284 with only 9x's. My buddy did not fair so well he shot a 147 beside me and was pretty upset with himself and me.
> 
> This shooting with out sights is getting better all the time


That would beat a LOT of compound shooters.


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## centershot

travski, That is awesome.............world class shooting. Your averaging 23.7 points per end, nearly 4) 5's and 1) 4 on every end.....What is your secret?


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## travski

centershot said:


> travski, That is awesome.............world class shooting. Your averaging 23.7 points per end, nearly 4) 5's and 1) 4 on every end.....What is your secret?


Not much of a secret, used to shoot compound regularly, got bored with it and started to shoot recurve unaided this summer, I shoot prob close to 3 hours a day if time permits. I am at the range 3 days a week, from 7 till midnight or later usually. if not at the range i have a 20 yard shot in the basement also

Do everything exactly the same everytime and if it doesnot feel right start over.
I am shooting a custom apa recurve at 40lbs, victory 600 arrows 4 inch fletch. 

Just remember if you have fun doing it the scores will follow, if you get frustrated at all you will start to drop off.


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## JV NC

I stopped into the indoor range in Clt, today (there on bus.). Don't know why I was so tired, but I didn't want to ingrain bad habits. I only shot 40 or so arrows.

I can tell you.....20yds seems like a BIG diff. from 15 (for NFAA scoring face.....where "I" am concerned).

I'll keep practicing. Some of the scores I see posted here are REALLY impressive. Keep up the great shooting, guys.


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## submerged

I'm really digging this thread. I just started shooting this year. Got my first bow for Christmas. I don't have anyone to shoot with, so I haven't had a bar to aim for and this seems to be a good way to do it. 

Shot my first 300 target at 20 yds today and scored 245 using a 35# PSE optima with a sight, no clicker or stabilizer. I was pretty happy with it, but I'm afraid I might be scoring incorrectly. Is everything in the white considered a 5 and the inner ring designating an "X", or is the inner white ring 5 and the outer white ring 4?


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## Viper1

S - 

The whole white is a 5, the "x" ring is for tie breakers. 

Viper1 out.


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## rsarns

Those are some great scores! I finally broke down and shot my 1st Blue face indoor 20yd 300 round Monday night... shot a whopping 130 something ..LOL Today at lunch I shot a 158. So its getting better. Switched arrows to 500's instead of the CE Heritage 250's, the 500's flew a lot better. Not bad with my Whisperstik Mojo recurve off the shelf.... hope to get up to 200 with more practice. That spot is a lot harder to hit than I would have imagined, 
3D seems easier to me. :zip: Tough thing is I am the only Trad guy shooting at our club indoors.... seeing all those compounds with movers shooting 300's, but guess if you have training wheels....


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## centershot

First time one of those Freestyle Compound jokers give you a bad time, just hand him your bow........


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## rsarns

They don't... they almost all started without training wheels and realized their weakness and bought compounds.. :wink:


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## BLACK WOLF

travski said:


> I shoot prob close to 3 hours a day if time permits. I am at the range 3 days a week, from 7 till midnight or later usually. if not at the range i have a 20 yard shot in the basement also
> 
> Do everything exactly the same everytime and if it doesnot feel right start over.
> 
> Just remember if you have fun doing it the scores will follow, if you get frustrated at all you will start to drop off.


Quality practice + Quantity + Consistantcy + Having Fun = An excellent archer! :wink:

Ray :wink:


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## Old Sarge

JV NC said:


> I stopped into the indoor range in Clt, today (there on bus.). Don't know why I was so tired, but I didn't want to ingrain bad habits. I only shot 40 or so arrows.
> 
> I can tell you.....20yds seems like a BIG diff. from 15 (for NFAA scoring face.....where "I" am concerned).
> 
> I'll keep practicing. Some of the scores I see posted here are REALLY impressive. Keep up the great shooting, guys.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks 5 yards seems like a lot. For some reason that little dot gets a LOT SMALLER...maybe it's an optical illusion. Hang in there JV after you've shot it a few times it will start to look bigger. Someone on this thread was talking about shooting it at 30 yards to make the 20 yrd shot look bigger...good idea. If you can hit fairly close at 30 all the time 20 is a lot easier.


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## innate123

rsarns said:


> Those are some great scores! I finally broke down and shot my 1st Blue face indoor 20yd 300 round Monday night... *shot a whopping 130 something ..LOL *Today at lunch I shot a 158. So its getting better. Switched arrows to 500's instead of the CE Heritage 250's, the 500's flew a lot better. Not bad with my Whisperstik Mojo recurve off the shelf.... hope to get up to 200 with more practice. That spot is a lot harder to hit than I would have imagined,
> 3D seems easier to me. :zip: Tough thing is I am the only Trad guy shooting at our club indoors.... seeing all those compounds with movers shooting 300's, but guess if you have training wheels....


rsarns is my hero - lol. It is nice to see a score that I think may be more realistic for some of us. Again, I haven't shot yet, but I was starting to feel like everyone here was a scratch golfer or something rather than a beginning 20 handicap. I'm guessing my first round will not touch the 180's. Maybe I'll surprise myself though. I think a 130 to a 158 is a great jump rsarns. 

Tim


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## rsarns

Thanks.. I think.:wink: I can tell you I shoot with some very very good Trad guys 3D out to 50 yards, most though are setup around 25-35 yards. The top scores every weekend are 200-225 on a 300 point total (30 targets scored 10-8-5).... My average is 150's with some being worse...LOL It amazes me that in a controlled indoor environment at 20 yards seems tougher. I will say that I was very happy with my score today jumping to 158, and think in a few weeks with practicing every other day I can get to the 180+ range. I only practice every other day (20 practice arrows and a 12 round 5 shot score) so as to not get worn out. I am relatively new to trad, got rid of my coumpounds in the last year and now everything is strictly traditional. No stab, sights, clicker, and off the shelf. It is fun to shoot again, maybe since I am not expecting 290's anymore?


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## Skel

I am very new to archery (i.e., started last night), and would wish to know how the targets (i.e., blue and white) are obtained. Can you print them possibly online, or do you have to pay for them from a store? I do not intend to use them until I get a little better, but was just curious.

Some background info. about me is that I am just diving into archery, so I am glad just to hit a standard sheet of paper lol. Don't know if that is how all of you started off accuracy wise :/. The equipment I use are club owned (e.g., the random assortment of arrows and a 25# recurve bow) that are for learning basics (e.g., not missing the target butt and breaking the arrow). I shot about 8 sets of 3 arrows, and now am addicted. Waiting for the next practice meeting this weekend is like X-mas eve when I was younger lol.

Thanks for any help or advise,
~Skel

Edit: The practice was at 20 meters or yards on a single 10-point target paper provided by the club. I do not know what was measured out unit wise.


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## Viper1

skel -

You can probably find the targets on line, but you'd need a printer that will handle approximately a 16x16" sheet of paper to print them. It will also kill a lot of blue ink!

If you're using the 4 color target with the yellow center, it's about the same size as the blue one we use. Your range probably has the blue ones as well. 

Don't even worry about the target yet. Work with the instructors and get your technique down first. Since this is your first time out, probably shouldn't be at 20 yds, if that's an option. 

If you're sure you're hooked, time to start looking for your own equipment, but guess you're already looking!

Viper1 out.


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## Skel

~Viper
Lol, good guess. I been starting to window shop for equipment in the sense of being able to obtain a majority of it including a bow before summer. The bow will be near the end as I want to increase my draw strength steadily for good form. Also, thanks for the info. of the size of paper.

The targets we were shooting at had 5 colors if there are no 4 color ones lol. I didn't quite count the number of colors, just aimed (or attempted) at the yellow tennis ball size target. The "instructor" (i.e., an experienced archer helping out the new people) had us starting at 20 yds with 25# recurve wooden bows with varying sizes of non-wooden arrows (e.g., arrow length, spine, color, etc.).

I have one last question about targets before I stop worrying about them for a little bit. The question I have is more out of curiousity. What are the average life-span before you guys (and gals) switch the target paper out? If you may, enter the lifespan in terms of number of shots (approximate). 

Yes, this is a trivial question... I havn't had the opportunity to shoot at a target enough to figure this out on my own, and this probably varies upon preference. I am just curious how long everyone's paper usually lasts.

Thanks,
~Skel

PS: Sorry if this post is a little off-topic in the sense that I am not posting a score. The questions I have relate to the paper used for it though lol.


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## Viper1

skel -

Target "faces" (the paper with the circles on it). How may shots depends on the shooter's preference, I usually use one face per day/session (usually a couple of hundred arrows), but i generally don't use the entire face  After a while they stop looking like swiss cheese and starts looking more like donut.

The target material (what stops the arrow) also has a limited life span, but that varies with the type of material, number of shots and the frequency of shots to the same place.

Viper1 out.


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## Two Blade

Skel, Viper1 is not going to pimp his own book so I guess that I will do it for him. Viper's name is Anthony Camera and the title of his book is Shooting The Stickbow. It is a great book for anyone interested in getting involved in archery.


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## centershot

Get the book - ASAP. A wealth of archery knowledge for under $20 on Amazon.com


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## Sanford

Old Sarge said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks 5 yards seems like a lot. For some reason that little dot gets a LOT SMALLER...maybe it's an optical illusion. Hang in there JV after you've shot it a few times it will start to look bigger. Someone on this thread was talking about shooting it at 30 yards to make the 20 yrd shot look bigger...good idea. If you can hit fairly close at 30 all the time 20 is a lot easier.


On the optical illusion part.

Actually, you are observing something very helpful to try to understand. It is interesting to note the differences we perceive between shooting blank bale groups, concentric circle targets, multiple circle targets, colored targets, 2D animal targets, and 3D animal targets. Much of the perceived difference can be explained by scale – scale invariance and fractal geometry. I’ve noticed the most striking difference when shooting small spots on a blank bale versus shooting at a target with a busy background.

My blank bale groups always seem best. Of course, as Viper once pointed out here, some of that is how we perceive/interpret the results. Shoot the back (all white) side of the target, pull the arrows, and turn over to see if that tight looking group scored any better than shooting the blue side. Kinda the reverse of scale comparison.

Here are some interesting pictures. It’s an extreme example, I know, but imagine the lens cap on the hill as being your bulls-eye. For the second picture, the background doesn’t change, but our scale comparison does change. What provides that scale is the interesting part and gets back to my rambling above on scale-invariance and its application to archery. At least it explains to me some of my observations.

Here's your first shot at the lens cap:











Here's your second shot at the SAME lens cap:


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## innate123

Sanford:

I think you in danger of getting booted here for saying stuff like "scale invariance" and "concentric" and stuff - lol. 

BTW, it might just be me, but I can't view the first pic. I'd like to see what it was. 

Thanks, 

Tim


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## Sanford

innate123 said:


> Sanford:
> 
> I think you in danger of getting booted here for saying stuff like "scale invariance" and "concentric" and stuff - lol.
> 
> BTW, it might just be me, but I can't view the first pic. I'd like to see what it was.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tim


I'll repost, but here's a better representation. Hold your thumb over the man in the second pic, now remove the thumb. The first pic was just without the man standing in.

The whole point of my nonsense was to show that what our eyes see, our brain doesn't, or what our brain is seeing, our eyes are not, or something along those lines. I work at finding how to make the two, eyesight and brainsight, copacetic.

First Pic again:


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## centershot

Ok back on topic. Shot a 232 w/ 5X last night with the new Dorado. Each round got better 75, 78 & 79 but this new bow at 35# had me too pooped to shoot another full game. Hopefully I'll get a chance to shoot another round today!


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## Sanford

Shot a 300 Round tourney today. 281, 26x's. Of course, that was with a sight aperture and stab in the Freestyle Limited Class. That's my barebow goal.


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## ronroettger

*Week #4 started good*

Just got home from shooting my week 4 score, shot a 235 started out with back to back games of 83 then shot a 69 (83, 83, 69) had 2-0's and a 1 in the last game, my best end was a 23 (X,X,X,X,3) low was a 16 (X,4,4,3,0,)
another bright spot after only 9-X's total the first 3 weeks I had 11 today.


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## JV NC

I wish I had indoors 20yds. Call me a wuss....but with snow on the ground, and 15yds avail. in the basement.....I chose the 15yd game.

Great shooting guys. I'll get back to 20yds soon I hope.

15yd game - 266/15X


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## rsarns

With all these great scores, how many of you are shooting strictly traditional (off the shelf, no sights no stab, no clicker... fingers?)? Not knocking any others or not saying they are not traditional, but for better words. Just to compare where I am shooting this way.


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## JV NC

> With all these great scores, how many of you are shooting strictly traditional (off the shelf, no sights no stab, no clicker... fingers?)?


I'm shooting the same bow I hunted with.....and the same arrows. I'm not sure what "traditional" means......but "no" to the sight; stab.; clicker.....and "yes" to fingers (tab).


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## centershot

234 4X on Saturday, pretty consistant most games around 77 plus or minus a few,...........I'm shooting barebow with a flipper rest, off the shelf wears out my feathers too quickly.


----------



## steve morley

I played with my W&W Winstar last night, first round was very average as I was trying a few new things (finger sling and new Carbons), I was really feeling the weight of that Riser compared to my Longbow plus my Longbow is 45lb and the Recurve is 48lb. again it felt like speed shooting, the other Longbows had shot all their arrows when I was drawing up for my 3rd shot this was still way to fast for me as I feel I need a bigger recovery time between shots.

First half was only 116 but second half I started to settle and shot 130, I think if I did a couple more sessions and got used to the Bow, 260s is reachable.

We have out Indoor Nationals next month and I cant decide which bow to shoot now.


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## rsarns

Just got done shooting a practice round. Changed back to the longbow and shot a 182 with 3X's. Much better than what I was shooting with the new recurve........ :mg: Did notice I cant the longbow and the sight picture was much better as I was trying to shoot the recurve without a cant. hmmmmm .........


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## centershot

Not bad rsarns, sure makes you appreciate how these guys shooting rounds in the 260's are.


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## rsarns

197 4X today at lunch! Looks like I'll be sticking with the longbow.... :shade:


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## Str8 Shooter

Cracked a 280 today in practice, day before I drive up for the WI state indoor shoot. Last end was a 24 w/ 4x and a splintered shaft. Here's hoping I can keep everything together for two days.

Good shooting everyone.


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## centershot

Awesome 280+, in my dreams...........Good luck at your shoot.


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## Sanford

Str8 Shooter said:


> Cracked a 280 today in practice, day before I drive up for the WI state indoor shoot. Last end was a 24 w/ 4x and a splintered shaft. Here's hoping I can keep everything together for two days.
> 
> Good shooting everyone.


Livin' up to your name, it seems:mg: Great!


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## rsarns

200 4X for score tonight! Best so far!


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## steve morley

Str8 Shooter said:


> Cracked a 280 today in practice, day before I drive up for the WI state indoor shoot. Last end was a 24 w/ 4x and a splintered shaft. Here's hoping I can keep everything together for two days.
> 
> Good shooting everyone.


I noticed 272 is our National Record, from a former European champ so your score is out of this world, good luck for the tourney.

He is a Sniper instructor for Estonian Army and NATO forces so has great focus and control, the 300 round has never been my strong round so it impresses me when somebody can do this round well, because I can't


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## centershot

Yea, back in the 240's! - Shot a 243 w/ 4X's last night. 81, 80 and 82 - felt good, relaxed and consistant. This is only my second score in the 240's but I feel like I should be able to do it again, really getting to know my Dorado and had a few really well executed shots. BTW I also tried a sight for a round at the end of my scoring game - Instantly jumped 10 points. Definate advantage there. One thing I did notice was that it could be an excellent training tool, the sight makes you slow down and take more time on the shot. Several ends after the sight experiment were some of my best all night........


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## Viper1

Center - 

240 is a turning point. Congrats!

Sights are a required training tool for anyone I work with (whether they want it or not). Once "aiming" is out of the equation, all that's left is form. So, in effect, there are no excuses 

Viper1 out.


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## innate123

Well, as a few of you know, we suddenly sold our house and are in the process of moving into a duplex for 3 months until our new place is up. Good news for us, but bad news for learning trad shooting for me - lol. 

But, I told my wifey that I needed to get away for a bit and finally shoot my Ocala 30+# bow with the 1716 arrows. Wow, what fun it is to mess around with anchor and holding and sight window and....hehe - it was just so much more relaxing. It led to me thinking about too much at times, but it was still a lot of fun. 

After about 1.25 hours and being tired, I decided to finally try shooting a NFAA round - AT 10 YARDS - LOL. 20 yards is still pretty brutal. 

The result - 244 with 8x's so I was pretty happy. I can't tell if I could have shot a better score shooting earlier as I did feel really "loose" shooting this round even though I was tired. I don't know when I'll get out again, but I think I'll shoot a 15 yard score to get a starting point. 

I'm still amazed at how just 5 big steps backwards can change focus and groups. I was just happy to finally get around to actually shooting a round. 

Tim


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## ronroettger

*went backwards again*

Shot my wk 5 score last friday night shot a 194 (70, 65, 59) after shooting a 235 the week before. Excuse's= I was taking some meds. that made me edgy, my wife and I normally shoot on Sunday, but were going to be busy so we hurried and shot Friday before going to fund raiser for the local grade school.
Just did not shoot well, Hope to do better this weekend.


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## BLACK WOLF

innate123 said:


> After about 1.25 hours and being tired, I decided to finally try shooting a NFAA round. I can't tell if I could have shot a better score shooting earlier as I did feel really "loose" shooting this round even though I was tired.


Be carefull about shooting when you're fatigued. It can lead to the same issues as being overbowed.

Congrats on selling the house and finally getting to shoot! :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## innate123

Hey Ray:

Thanks. Got ya on the "fatigue" thing. It was more of the I was "afraid to shoot a score" thing that I just wanted to get out of the way. I shot for quite awhile as I was finally starting to figure some things out and couldn't put the bow down - lol. Now that I actually shot a score for a baseline, I think I'll do it again. I'm guessing If I moved back to 20 yards, I'd lose 100 points right now. If I get out to shoot again, I'm going to do a 15 yard baseline score and see what happens. I should note that shooting a NFAA round does up your "focus factor" to say the least. *It was obvious when I let my focus wander, I'd shoot a 3 or just barely make the 4 ring. *

Yes! No more keeping the friggin house spotless with 2 sons and 2 dogs! Happy wife means alot - hehe. 

Tim


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## Flint Hills Tex

Viper1 said:


> center -
> 
> By today's standards, 220's at 20 yds is pretty respectable. The 240's are certainly do-able and beyond that the points do get harder and harder to come by, but by no means impossible.
> 
> Viper1 out.


Sorry to get involved so late, but I didn't notice this thread until just now. Viper, when you say a 220 at 20 yds. is respectable, is that barebow or shooting with a sight?

I'm asking, cause I've been participating in an online NFAA 300 league this winter on another forum. I've been frustrated, 'cause most of the other fellows are posting scores like 264 and 272, while I've worked all winter to get mine from the 190s to the 220s. I'm currently comfortably shooting an average of 220 with a sighted bow.

Same sort of frustration with my FITA 600 scores, which have worked their way up to consistent 420s, but I watch the other guys getting upset about shooting less than 550.

I know we shouldn't focus on scores, and I've been trying not to. In fact it was by concentrating on form that I've been able to make real improvements, which have been reflected in my scores.


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## BLACK WOLF

Flint Hills Tex said:


> Viper, when you say a 220 at 20 yds. is respectable, is that barebow or shooting with a sight?


I can't speak for Viper...but IMO...220 is a respectable score for BAREBOW. 220 with sights...definately needs some improvement, IMO.

Ray :wink:


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## steve morley

BLACK WOLF said:


> I can't speak for Viper...but IMO...220 is a respectable score for BAREBOW. 220 with sights...definately needs some improvement, IMO.
> 
> Ray :wink:


I would say 220 for Longbow and woodies is good and 240+ very good, not many Longbows in the world shooting 250's despite what some people say they're scoring in their backyard or local club.


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## Viper1

Flint - 

220 is for new barebow shooters, or more specifically guys shooting with bow hunting equipment. More target oriented barebow shooters are looking at the 240 - 250 range and with sight/Oly type bows, things don't start happening until you're in the 270 bracket. 

I don't get into on-line leagues and if you've noticed I stopped mentioning my scores all together. Even with the best intentions, some people exaggerate or flat out lie. IMHO, just not worth the effort. 

There's isn't a 1:1 correlation between the FITA 600s and the NFAA 300s due to the additional scoring rings in the former. (There's probably a fudge factor, but I haven't see it.) For example an 290 avg NFAA shooter Oly would be doing well in the 270's on the FITA 300 or "Vegas" round.

Viper1 out.


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## Arcus

Flint - 

Are any of those guys using clickers? Limbwalker once posted that the clicker has more impact on accuracy than a sight.


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## Viper1

Arcus -



Arcus said:


> Flint -
> 
> Are any of those guys using clickers? Limbwalker once posted that the clicker has more impact on accuracy than a sight.


Think that quote has to be taken in context. I believe what John was talking about was that messing with a clicker will mess up an Olympic shooter more than messing with the sight. Also depends on why the shooter is using the clicker.

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

I don't know about others scores, but my scores are all shot barebow (Hoyt Dorado 35#) with a NAP Flipper rest, finger tab, shooting 3 under w/ 1816 XX75 w/ 3) 4" Feathers and 100gr points.........that's it. No sights, clickers or stabilizers. Unfortunately, the scores I post are the scores I shoot.........I would love to add 20-30 points to them, but I'd only be lying to myself, so I wright them down - the good, the bad and the ugly, when I do post a good score I can feel good about it. I think many if not most of the scores 
are legit, I personally saw a guy shoot a 399 on a 450 Vegas round barebow - he backed that up with a 524/600 at the Utah Open - he routinely shoots in the 270's to 280's on the NFAA 5 spot. He's damn good, but shows it can be done.
I do and have tried sights and stabilizers but do not use those scores as they would be classified differently than Barebow if at an official shoot.


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## Viper1

Center -

Those scores are certainly possible, we were doing that 40 years ago. The numbers I gave were for what should be expected from more "typical" shooters.

Viper1 out.


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## Sanford

centershot said:


> I do and have tried sights and stabilizers but do not use those scores as they would be classified differently than Barebow if at an official shoot.


Centershot, I do fully respect your position here, but there is a caveat. I recently posted my sighted score, as I am in an extended tourney shooting Oly bow in the Recurve Limited Class. Now, for others shooting that class, that's an appropriate equipment-to-equipment measure. Now, iffin I was to shoot the same tourney in Trad Class, which is barebow, all I have to do is remove the sight and stabilizer. Now comes the apples-to-apples equipment comparison into play again. For me to shoot that bow, elevated rest, spring plunger, carbon limbs, tunability, etc..... against the guy there with a Tred Barta longbow shooting wood arrows. Well, the comparison of scores would actually be less meaningful than mine are now against the other RL shooters, where the equipment is more matched.

Trad barebow can become the "catchall" for what doesn't fit in the more defined classes of equipment. As such, we have to take some scoring comparisons with a grain of salt, although, there are some that score high enough to break the equipment boundaries anyway.


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## centershot

Heck I say, just post up your score - maybe add on what your setup is and call it good. This is just a way to keep track of some scores and hopefully get better as we go. I just shot a hurried round on my lunch break.......it showed. 226 5X with the Barebow Dorado.


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## Str8 Shooter

I had a rough weekend at the state shoot. There were a few things I wasn't prepared for that threw me off my mental game. The shoot was structured with a dual shooting line (two top shooters, than two bottom shooters) and that combined with the elapsed time for scoring made long breaks between shooting. It was 10-12 minutes between shooting for each round. The high target 5 ring was above my head which I haven't encountered at the local stuff I do, not a big deal but different. 

I shot a 254 on Saturday which was down a bit from my average. I was cool with that given the different conditions. Sunday I encountered my first ever fit of shooting panic. I've never had target panic before but when I stepped up to the line I got a nasty feeling of anxiety that I couldn't shake. I made some really horrible shots in the first 4 ends and was on my way to shooting a sub 200 score. I had to take a few minutes and refocus. I managed to regain control and shoot solid arrows for the next 8 ends but still only ended up with a 230 for the day. That's the worst I've shot, by far, in a long, long while. 

The most valuable lesson I learned is the importance of preparation for the game you play. I wasn't prepared correctly for this type of format. I think that is what killed me. I felt really out my element and I didn't enjoy the long breaks. In the future I know how to better train to shoot this in a formal event. 

I learned what it takes to hit big scores in big events. I have a newfound respect for the people who hit 270+ scores at Nationals. 

Chris


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## BLACK WOLF

Str8 Shooter said:


> I had a rough weekend at the state shoot. There were a few things I wasn't prepared for that threw me off my mental game.
> 
> Sunday I encountered my first ever fit of shooting panic. I've never had target panic before but when I stepped up to the line I got a nasty feeling of anxiety that I couldn't shake.
> 
> *The most valuable lesson I learned is the importance of preparation for the game you play.* I wasn't prepared correctly for this type of format. I think that is what killed me. I felt really out my element and I didn't enjoy the long breaks. In the future I know how to better train to shoot this in a formal event.
> 
> I learned what it takes to hit big scores in big events. I have a newfound respect for the people who hit 270+ scores at Nationals.


Boy...don't I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Very hunbling...isn't it :teeth:

I find it very similar to hunting. A target archer should prepare for the exact situations they will be competeing in just as a bowhunter needs to practice for the exact situations they will be hunting in if they want to build confidence in their abilities.

Ray :shade:


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## rsarns

Love this thread! I shoot NFAA blueface for the mail-in WSAA. I am shooting my Whisperstik longbow off the shelf and with a glove, no add ons straight barebow. I am shooting carbon now though with 5 inch feathers. Looking at the scores here I am in awe, I am relatively new to shooting traditional competitively. Our state record for the indoor blue face 20 yards is a 278 (traditional) and a 552 combined 2 day score. I am not anywhere close to threatening that yet... :mg: My first 2 weeks I shot my new recurve, and didn't fair well.... 130's and a 146... switched back to my longbow which I have been hunting with (and 3D) for the last year or so and immediately improved. Shot a 200 for my 3rd week. Hope someday to get up to the level of some on here, but I know I am probably a few years in experience behind.


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## steve morley

Str8 Shooter said:


> I had a rough weekend at the state shoot. There were a few things I wasn't prepared for that threw me off my mental game. The shoot was structured with a dual shooting line (two top shooters, than two bottom shooters) and that combined with the elapsed time for scoring made long breaks between shooting. It was 10-12 minutes between shooting for each round. The high target 5 ring was above my head which I haven't encountered at the local stuff I do, not a big deal but different.
> 
> I shot a 254 on Saturday which was down a bit from my average. I was cool with that given the different conditions. Sunday I encountered my first ever fit of shooting panic. I've never had target panic before but when I stepped up to the line I got a nasty feeling of anxiety that I couldn't shake. I made some really horrible shots in the first 4 ends and was on my way to shooting a sub 200 score. I had to take a few minutes and refocus. I managed to regain control and shoot solid arrows for the next 8 ends but still only ended up with a 230 for the day. That's the worst I've shot, by far, in a long, long while.
> 
> The most valuable lesson I learned is the importance of preparation for the game you play. I wasn't prepared correctly for this type of format. I think that is what killed me. I felt really out my element and I didn't enjoy the long breaks. In the future I know how to better train to shoot this in a formal event.
> 
> I learned what it takes to hit big scores in big events. I have a newfound respect for the people who hit 270+ scores at Nationals.
> 
> Chris


Chris the exact same problems caught me out at the 07 IFAA world indoors, first day I only scored 200 but last day I was back shooting 240's but the damage had already been done. The German who won was shooting low 250's all week, amazing for Longbow and woodies. He won the worlds again a few months back in Argentina with an average of 250 and a high of 264.

I know what it takes to overcome the difficulties you had. Well done :darkbeer:

We have our Nationals in a couple of weeks, I would like to break the 253 record but don't think my shooting is up to the standard or will be in the time scale.


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## rick crowe

STR8 SHOOTER I no what you mean.I shoot traditional off the shelf.I shot in the ohio vegas round 2 weeks ago.practice rounds were good. the minute he said start and score I shook so bad I didnt think I could put the nock on the string.I had been shooting in the 385 and at the shoot shot a 345.last week shot the ohio governor's cup. been shooting mid 260's low 270's. in the shoot shot a 253 w/14x .I have new found respect for the people who can hold it together with nerves.


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## J. Wesbrock

Chris,

I know exactly what you're talking about. It was a major culture shock for my the first time I shot at a state indoor championship. There's a big difference between shooting well at the local club or shop, and doing it at a large tournament.

Are you shooting the NFAA indor sectionals this year?


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## Arcus

Viper1 said:


> Arcus -
> Think that quote has to be taken in context. I believe what John was talking about was that messing with a clicker will mess up an Olympic shooter more than messing with the sight. Also depends on why the shooter is using the clicker.
> Viper1 out.


I hadn't realized that it's been four years since I raised the question, but here it is:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=298154


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## Viper1

Arcus - 

Yup, When you get the idea of using a clicker down, it being a mm off can really mess you up. (Most of us draw to within a mm or two of breaking it.) If a sight is off, it becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly. That's also why both sights AND clickers are usually marked for positions. 

It's also why shooting at high levels pretty much means doing it by the numbers and leaving very little to chance or "feel" and emotions aren't an option. 

Viper1 out.


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## Luv2shoot

*Shooting Scores*

Our State Indoor is in two weeks and I get nervous just thinking about it.
Have been shooting an avg. of 245 with a high round of 267 but I will be very excited if I can hold my avg.
I have shot a lot of State indoor shoots over the years but this will be my first in the Trad. class and we have some very good shooter in my area.
This has been a great post and it's good to see your not the only one affected by nerves under pressure.
Good luck to all that are giving the 300 round a try.


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## salemons

Just got my bow for Christmas. Quinn Stallion 50# shooting carbon 4560 arrows off a rest. Its cold so shooting indoors at only 10 yds. My first try was last Saturday. I shot 12 sets of 5 arrows for a score of 160. Tried again Wednesday shooting 6 sets of 10 and got a 180. I'm all over the target then pop a few in the 5. Still need lots of work and practice but I'm trying and having fun. Going to keep working on 10 yds then move outdoors and get a little farther when the weather gets better.


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## centershot

Keep at it Salemons - Shoot at 10 yards until your scores are regularly in the 240's, then stretch out to 15 yards and do the same. It's best to start close and get your form working properly to begin with. If you do not already have it, I suggest getting "Shooting the Stickbow" by Viper1 here on AT. It's the best $20 I have spent on Traditioal Archery.


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## SCS

Shot 198 last night. 1st half was good, lost it on the second. Spent alot of time after shooting a score just shooting and trying to be consistent. The more I shot the better it got (till I tired out). The big insult of the evening was my son (the compound shooter) taking my last 2 arrows of the night and sticking them in the 9 and 10 rings of a Vegas target with my bow. he's lucky he didn't have to walk home!
Steve


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## BigCnyn

*Barebow?*

Then would it matter,if the BB score was with a recurve? or Compound? 
Should those be different apples and, or oranges? 
What Class are you shooting TRAD, Bare Bow, OLY recurve, Bowhunter limited, Bowhunter Open, Flights Or Open. The styles and rules vary greatly. Pick the one you want and shoot it. No what you are up against and play..
Bare bowers can compete with a compound or recurve, so should a compound shooter be judged lower, than A shooter with a recurve?
That is why I got out of trad. to many excuses. 
I guess this is directed at Sanford, not picking on you just after clarification.
Shoot what ya brought and have fun.!!!
Cause if you don't, you might be miserable..


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## innate123

This NFAA stuff is interesting. I had to get away from the wifey and the packing again - made up excuses and brought the bow with me. 

Since I shot pretty good at 10 yards on Tues. I decided to back up to 15 yards. 

Shot a 220 at 15 yards and surprised myself - 5x's. Well, since I scored higher than I thought at 15, I decided to whip out a 20 yard baseline score. 

Well.....YIKES! What a difference! 

My score dropped to a 160 and I really started losing focus after shoot some poor ends. Mentally, I would say I failed on that one. I didn't want to end a mental wreck, so I went back and shot 20 arrows at 10 yards for a 81. Felt a bit better about myself again - lol. 

I really struggled with shooting low at 20 yards. I am pretty much trying to shoot instinctive with maybe some split vision aiming off the shelf 3 under. 

Tim


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## centershot

I just go with the NFAA Definition of Traditional. It's likely that will be the rules used at any of the shoots I will go to. I plan to take full advantage of anything allowed within those rules though......


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## innate123

Center:

Are u using mostly POA? 

Tim


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## Sanford

BigCnyn said:


> Then would it matter,if the BB score was with a recurve? or Compound?
> Should those be different apples and, or oranges?
> What Class are you shooting TRAD, Bare Bow, OLY recurve, Bowhunter limited, Bowhunter Open, Flights Or Open. The styles and rules vary greatly. Pick the one you want and shoot it. No what you are up against and play..
> Bare bowers can compete with a compound or recurve, so should a compound shooter be judged lower, than A shooter with a recurve?
> That is why I got out of trad. to many excuses.
> I guess this is directed at Sanford, not picking on you just after clarification.
> Shoot what ya brought and have fun.!!!
> Cause if you don't, you might be miserable..


In NFAA I could shoot the same Recurve Limited rig against a compound shooter shooting fingers, which I believe is Bowhunter Limited (not sure exact class). So yes, the classes can get convoluted if comparing equipment, but being there is a separate class for Recurvers, I shoot with them guys. The only gripe I remember recently was from a Trad shooter: "Can you believe they let them guys remove the sight shoot those Oly bows for Trad?" Well, yes I can


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## Str8 Shooter

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who succumbs to pressure every once in a while. Thanks for the encouragement. For those of you who deal with TP on a regular basis... I feel for ya. 

Jason, 
Not sure if I can make sectionals this year. I'd have to shoot both days. I was supposed to have a free weekend but we had to reschedule my daughters birthday party to Saturday. I may try to sweet talk my wife into shooting the 7:00 am line so I could be back before the party. After last weekend I was so frustrated I was ready to hang up the bow for a while. Now, after a few days of not shooting, I'm clear headed and itching for redemption. I know I can hit a better score and now I real desire to prove it to myself.

As far as the rules thing goes you have to figure out which class you're in and stay within the rules. If you shoot trad with a wood bow off the shelf against a metal bow with a rest you can't complain about it. It's your choice not to use that and, realistically, at 20 yards it isn't going to make a huge difference. As far as barebow compound vs. barebow recurve, so what. In IFAA field the world record for barebow recurve is up around 480-490/560. The best barebow compound shooter is usually a little over 500/560. Is it the bow or the caliber of shooter?


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## centershot

innate123, here's how I shoot, I will set my feet, nock an arrow, set my bow hand grip and grip the string (3 under). Then I raise the bow, pointing the arrow at 6 o'clock on the NFAA single spot target. I draw the bow trying to keep my bowarm still until I hit my anchor (currently index finger at corner of mouth) at this point in the sequence the arrow point is about 2 1/2 feet below the center of the target and I do not reference it after the initial pre draw aim. Focus on the X and try to make a smooth release. Sometimes it works and other times, not so much. I'm currently trying to change my anchor point higher so I can get the point of the arrow closer to the target for a constant reference, but have not had much of a chance to try it. I'm still very new and probably should not be messing around yet, but I am not satisfied with my accuracy at this point. Hope that helps, and if anyone sees a problem, please let me know.

As for the compound vs recurve barebow, I think 2 classes are warranted. The speed and letoff of a compound is a very large advantage the way I see it.


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## innate123

Hmm..Like I said, I'm doing mostly instinctive, but I must have a high anchor point with thumb knuckle under ear lobe/mastoid process of skull for more accurate terms. But It looks to me that my arrow is only about 4 -5" under bullseye if I were using a POA with it. 

Again, I'm 95% hunter and don't plan on ever shooting competitively even though I am enjoying shooting NFAA for score. It gives me a baseline and makes me focus more I think. I don't know that it is going to be possible for me to develop the "end" aiming style I'll choose though for quite a few months - lol. Just my personal opinion at this time. Thanks for sharing. 

Tim


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## BLACK WOLF

Str8 Shooter said:


> The best barebow compound shooter is usually a little over 500/560. Is it the bow or the caliber of shooter?


It's both...with the emphasis placed on the person behind the bow.

If we were all shooting machines...it wouldn't matter...but we're not...even though there are a select few who are pretty darn close.

Tournaments can be won or lost by a matter of a few points and using equipment that is more forgiving of shooter error or slight inconsistantcies can be the difference between winning and looseing.

The more equipment distances itself from being forgiving and less forgiving...the larger the spread between high scores will be.

It would take an exceptional individual to shoot equally as good with a primitive bow and arrows as a top ranked archer using the latest and greatest equipment with all the bells and whistles.

A person can either acknowledge that...or they can pretend it doesn't exist.

Ray :shade:


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## centershot

I'm jealous of that sight picture. A few inches low at 20 would be great for me. I'd like to be able to draw just under or low on a bucks chest at 20 and center him. For a bit longer or shorter it should be a fairly easy adjustment. Having that 20 yard sight picture nailed down is a good start.


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## Viper1

Center -

The let-off and speed really aren't a factor at the distances were discussing. The let-off might actually be a minus, not a plus. Adding a release device however DOES. 

Anywho, the rules are what they are. You can petition for change, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

You seem to be at a stage right now where there's one thing in your shot sequence that might be missing. I'll leave you with that to think about 

Viper1 out.


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## innate123

I'll have to pay attention to it the next time I shoot. Maybe it isn't 6", but it sure seems that way. And, I struggled shooting low at 20 yards today so it may be even closer. This is with 28.5" draw and 1716 cheapo aluminums - lol. If I were to have the indoor distance, I'm guessing my point on distance might be 25 yards or so. But again, I'm guessing I'm favoring using split vision aiming where I can kind of see the arrow tip in relation to the target, but am still staring at the target. I'm obviously not paying enough attention to it to know how low it is. 

This aiming/instinctive is all interesting stuff. 

Tim


----------



## Str8 Shooter

I'm not saying there isn't any difference in equipment but the determining factor will always be the shooter. I really believe it isn't until you reach a very high level that equipment differences actually can effect scores, with the qualification that you have matched/ tuned equipment from the get go. 

Now, if you're competing than it is up to the person shooting to choose the equipment they feel will give them the best results. If you feel you will do best with a longbow off the shelf vs. an ILF bow with a rest/ plunger than go out and give it hell. If you get beat than congratulate the winner and compliment them on their skill.


----------



## J. Wesbrock

Chris,

I just noticed that the Great Lakes Indoor Sectionals is in Joliet, which is only about an hour away from me. If you're going to be there, let me know and I'll try to drop by.

As I recall, when you register you can select your Saturday line time, but your placement after the first day will determine your line time on Sunday. The last two time I shot the sectionals, the final line was reserved for pros and freestyle shooters; the rest of the top flights had second line.


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## BLACK WOLF

Str8 Shooter said:


> I'm not saying there isn't any difference in equipment but the determining factor will always be the shooter. I really believe it isn't until you reach a very high level that equipment differences actually can effect scores, with the qualification that you have matched/ tuned equipment from the get go.
> 
> Now, if you're competing than it is up to the person shooting to choose the equipment they feel will give them the best results. If you feel you will do best with a longbow off the shelf vs. an ILF bow with a rest/ plunger than go out and give it hell. If you get beat than congratulate the winner and compliment them on their skill.


I agree. My point wasn't to give an archer excuses for poor shooting or a reason to be a poor looser. My point was to shed some light that equipment has, can and will play a roll in how well an archer may rank in competition. There are advantages to using certain equipment.

Ultimately...it's the archer's choice and responsibility in what equipment they choose to use.

One of the things I love about archery...is in most cases...an archer has only himself to blame for poor shooting.

Ray :shade:


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## Eldermike

Shot 205 today, 20yds outdoor in the wind. 5X"s and 15 5"s. But the wind would come and go. The good news is no shots in the white.


----------



## centershot

Broke into the 250's today! Shot a 251, should actually have been a 253 but had an arrow break a nock in the 5 ring and glance out to a 3.........none the less I'm very pleased with that score.


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## Eldermike

Good shooting. I have shot some 250's indoors. That's a good day for me. I am going to shoot another 60 arrows tomorrow outside, it's a big deal for me to break 200 if the wind is a factor. BTW, I am shooting a 66 inch 45lb longbow with 1916 legacy arrows.


----------



## Sanford

OK! Shot my last leg of the tournament in the sighted recurve class. Shot 260  (21 points behind my best of three shoots) To add insult, a 10-year old in the Cub class (10 yards), shot my class and shot 298! I have to question myself if I could have shot 298 at 10 yards


----------



## Viper1

Sanford - 



> I have to question myself if I could have shot 298 at 10 yards


Only one way to find out. Here's a hint: if you can't, it's your mental game that needs wook, not your physical shooting. Only problem with that is, odds are you'll bust a lot of arrows while trying!

:darkbeer:

Viper1 out.


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## Sanford

Viper1 said:


> Sanford -
> 
> 
> 
> Only one way to find out. Here's a hint: if you can't, it's your mental game that needs wook, not your physical shooting. Only problem with that is, odds are you'll bust a lot of arrows while trying!
> 
> :darkbeer:
> 
> Viper1 out.


The mental game was definitely off today. Lighting? Driving to shoot? I don't know, but I knew at warm-up there would be some in the 3-ring, just not the many that did. Last shoot's x count =26, this shoot = 12. Most of the fives I got today were on the line - thanks FatBoys! As soon as my Pinnacle II riser gets here from Lancaster, my game is going back to off the shelf, barebow. I'll still want to compete as today but more on specific shoots instead of my "go to" method, which is barebow.


----------



## Viper1

Sanford - 

These days I'm getting people I train into enumerating their shot sequences earlier and earlier in their training. There's just too much going on to rely purely on feel. Making sure guys can "paint by numbers" may not guarantee a great day, but it goes a long way to preventing a bad day, especially one due to "mental fatigue". 

I figure you know this already, but it might help some of the guys who are new to the competitive game.

Viper1 out.


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## lazy ike

Well my buddies and I finally got down to our outdoor range. ( 48" of snow between the 5th and the 10th. Still 15 to 20 " most places). I just had to shoot a 300 round or go crazy ! There was maybe a 8 to 10 mph breeze and sunny around 45 degrees. Shot just about my average.... 254 9X. I really started out trying to have just one thought ( squeeze the shoulder blades together until the clicker goes off. Somewhere in the middle of the round I lost that singular thought and had a few lapses ( I think I had 3 or 4... 3's). My 11th end was the worst of the day 18. Just befor shooting the last end I remembered the squeeze thought. Last end was a 25 1X . I'm really starting to believe in the supreme importance of back tension !!

BTW my bow is not an oly rig. The clicker is a limb-mounted string type to help with TP. Although now it's more like tp(lower case) cause it's getting more manageable even when I set the clicker cord long so it's not beig used


Ike


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## ronroettger

*week #6 & 7 scores*

my wife and I are going to a family thing in Tucson AZ in a couple weeks so we needed to get 3 league scores total in his and next weekend, so we shot two back to back today I shot a 223, 3-X (76,72,75) the first game. And a 207, 6-X (68,68,71) the second game. My best end was a 23, low was a 15.


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## centershot

Maybe Saturday's score wasn't a fluke.....shot a 248 10x yesterday. I had one bad end of 16 that kept me out of the 250's again.....I lost focus when a guy let go of his release at full draw! Wham that release hit the back of his bow, then went skidding down the lane......the arrow stuck in the wall about 10 yards down...whoa, I can ignore quite a bit, but that shook me up a bit! I let down and restarted but was still thinking about it. Nobody was hurt (other than pride) and just a ding in the guys bow. I got it together after that end but just could not make up for the 16.


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## Eldermike

Shot 220 yesterday afternoon, 20 yards outdoors with a 45lb long bow and legacy 1916's. 

Put everything else up just to work on this bow...shot three scores with it starting at 205. 

I have been at this archery thing along time, but not the target stuff. My first half (6 ends) if doubled would put me at 250's. So, I am back to weight training........But I am old so I could use an excuse, but I'll hold it for now.


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## centershot

It's tough to keep 'it' together for 60 shots.......seems the bad shots tend to be forgotten when just shooting. Scoring a full round counts them all, the good, the bad and the ugly............What the heck, it's fun and gets me out of the house!


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## Eldermike

centershot said:


> It's tough to keep 'it' together for 60 shots.......seems the bad shots tend to be forgotten when just shooting. Scoring a full round counts them all, the good, the bad and the ugly............What the heck, it's fun and gets me out of the house!


Yes it is. Informal shooting I may shoot 100 arrows, but over a days time. When shooting 60 for a score and not taking breaks the score begins to go away on the second half. The mental and physical parts of archery are best seen when you are scoring/timing your pratice sessions. Without it, it's all a guess as to how well you actually shoot.


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## mesquite

Could I use a FITA 40 cm round in place of an NFAA 40cm and just score it the same way? 

Also, I noticed that there is a 5 spot NFAA target. How is this one scored? I noticed there is only 5 and 4 ring scoring areas. I'm guessing this is for advanced archers? I would assume that if you hit the bullseye of one target on accident and not the one you were aiming for it wouldn't count correct?


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## Viper1

mesquite - 

If they have the 40cm FITA (four color) target, the dimensions are very close. (Just go by colors and ignore the extra lines.)

The five spot is just the bull and four ring of the full single spot target - are ya feelin' lucky??? 

Viper1 out.


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## J. Wesbrock

mesquite said:


> Could I use a FITA 40 cm round in place of an NFAA 40cm and just score it the same way?


Yes, just score the five color target as follows:

Gold = 5

Red = 4

Blue = 3

Black = 2

White = 1


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## mesquite

Haha thanks Viper, I just realized you answered my question in the other thread. Anywho, for those who are interested, you can print several different archery targets here including the FITA 40cm and the NFAA 5 spot. 

http://www.dewclawarchery.com/printable_targets-a/136.htm.

The Fita takes four sheets, but my plan is to tape them together on a piece of cardboard that will go in front of my arrowstop. This should also make pulling the arrows out cleaner and prevent the target from getting ripped up in the process. I printed out two targets for cheap at the library today so I'm going to try to get in a game before classes tomorrow. Maybe two if I have time. Kind of nervous to post my score but I guess I still have the beginner excuse for the next month or so haha. But then again, you probably stop progressing when you stop shooting for personal gain and instead for bragging rights lol.

I'm thinking 15 yards, as I'm not confident yet in my abilities to not miss the target completely at 20.

P.S. Really digging the book Viper, one of my favorite chapters is actually the one on the dynamics of the arrow in motion. I'm definitely a physics geek so this information is interesting to me on multiple levels.


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## lazy ike

Tried something yesterday and it seems promising. I realized that was not taking enough time between arrows.
I started mentally counting at the conclusion of each shot so that I would have the same amount of time between shots.If I am correct you have 40 seconds per arrow, so at the conclusion of each shot I mentally start counting to 20 before drawing for the next shot. I don't nock the arrow until I have counted to 10 and then I start the draw at 20.I did not shoot a full round this way , only 4 ends.The ends were 22,23,24,23 and there were no 3's. It makes it much easier to pull thru the clicker and gives me a constant routine which is a great psychological tool.
I know I have a little extra time built in here, so I may refine it a bit and draw at 25 or 27 or something like that.


Ike


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## Viper1

ike - 

Rushing is a problem both mentally and physically. You do want to leave enough of a cushion in the event you have to let down and start over. Another trick we used, if whooting with a partner, is alternating shots. 

Viper1 out.


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## lazy ike

Thanks Viper....The reason I started paying attention to this is the last round I shot, One of my friends and I were talking between many of my shots and the spacing made it physically much easier. Which in turn, made it mentally easier. The surprise thing that I discovered is how a continual count could become part of my routine. Mentally comforting just like a golfer's preshot routine. I read somewhere that the current U.S. Olympic research says that the muscles need 24 or 25 seconds to fully recover.


Ike


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## rsarns

207 with 7X today practicing at lunch.... starting to get more consistent. 20 yards...... and then this! FIrst thought was WOW... then darn it. :mg:


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## innate123

rsarns said:


> 207 with 7X today practicing at lunch.... starting to get more consistent. 20 yards...... and then this! FIrst thought was WOW... then darn it. :mg:


Looks like a "4" to me - lol. Nice shooting!

Tim


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## Luv2shoot

Wish me luck,
Our TN State Indoor turney starts today. This will be my first time shooting the State shoot in the Trad class and I can telll it's going to be very different from shooting in a big shoot with a release and compound.
I would be very happy if I can shoot my avg. and not blow a shot into the wall.
Our shooting time is 2:00PM today & Sun. so let the nerves begin !


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## innate123

Hey Luv:

Have fun and shoot well - good luck. 

Tim


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## lazy ike

Looks like two 5's to me !


Ike


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## innate123

On a serious note, how would a robin hood be scored in competition?


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## J. Wesbrock

innate123 said:


> On a serious note, how would a robin hood be scored in competition?


The impacting arrow scores the same as the impacted one.


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## innate123

ahh..thanks J. It would be interesting to see how that would play out on the last shot of a championship if it ever happened. I.E. An arrow just barely touching the five line that is angled slightly down that is robin hooded. It would then score at a 5, where it may have potentially been a 4. 

Unlikely, but it would be quite the story - lol. 

Tim


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## Luv2shoot

Just got back from day 1 of out State Indoor.
Started off with back to back 18"s on the first two ends. Big time nerves at the start but got better as the round went.
Finished with a 244 and was glad to have that score with my start and shooting a "0" on the second end.
The thing that stood out the most was how fast the round went. I was trying to shoot one arrow at a time and keep my form and the next thing I know it's over.
I guess I'm happy with how thingw went and there in a BIG diff. when shooting when the score counts.
Wish me luck tomorrow and good shooting to all.


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## centershot

Raising the bar, 252 tonight a new Personal Best.........This is even more fun when you hit the middle!


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## Sanford

centershot said:


> Raising the bar, 252 tonight a new Personal Best.........This is even more fun when you hit the middle!


Dang!!


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## Viper1

Gents - 



centershot said:


> This is even more fun when you hit the middle!


Bada bing, bada bang, bada boom ...  

Center -

Careful buddy, that's dangerous talk on a "trad" forum.

Seriously guys, it's really cool to see so many people gettting back into the accuracy part of archery. Seems like it skipped a generation somehow.

Viper1 out.


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## Luv2shoot

Tennessee State Indoor all done !!!
Shot a second roung of 259 that I am very happy with.
Ended up with a 503 total and will have to check tomorrow to see what place it put me.
There are shooting locations in three parts of the state, middle, east & west so I will not know what the other scores are till tomorrow.
A lot of fun and a LOT of nerves shooting on the line with so many good shooters.


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## Greenarrow1

Shot a personal best today 210 After shooting a 175 earlier.


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## BLACK WOLF

Luv2shoot said:


> Tennessee State Indoor all done !!!
> Shot a second roung of 259 that I am very happy with.
> Ended up with a 503 total and will have to check tomorrow to see what place it put me.
> There are shooting locations in three parts of the state, middle, east & west so I will not know what the other scores are till tomorrow.
> A lot of fun and a LOT of nerves shooting on the line with so many good shooters.


NICE JOB!!!

Ray :shade:


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## lazy ike

" On the line with so many good shooters".....Apparently you are one of them!!
Good shooting , let us know how you placed. 


Ike


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## centershot

Great shooting Luv2shoot! I think that would get you in the top 10 here in Idaho.........Of course a 1 would do that as there are usually only 10 shooters........I found the results from the 2005 NW Sectionals the winning shooter scored 258/252 for 510, second 502, down to 7th with a 328 for 2 rounds. I do know of one guy currently shooting way better than the 2005 results and expect that he will likely win this years state touney with a 540+.
Breaking 500 would be a great score for anyone in my book.


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## centershot

247 Last night, bumps the 5 game average to 245.


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## Luv2shoot

Thanks guy's
Shooting 500+ was my goal for the weekend and just barely got there.
Still don't know what the scores from the other locations are but I'm good with the 503 in my first year shooting the Trad class.
It is a work in progress as my first scoring round this year was a 197 and I have a LONG WAY to go.
The best part is I know that every point I pick up on my indoor score will make me that much better shot on game this fall.
Good luck to all and just keep trying new things until you find what works for you.


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## warped Arrow

OK, I am going to have to seriously try this...

12 sets, 5 arrows each set, right?

20 yards, right?

How much time between each set of 5 arrows? Or just the time it itakes to get them back from the target to the line?

Also, my target isnt "shoulder high" its about mid chest. Will this be ok?

I have never seriously done a 300 round, this could be interesting. Gonna do it with both my oly bow with carbons and my trad bow with woods. Barbow with both. What type of differances should I see between the two as far as scoring, if any?


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## centershot

12 sets of 5 arrows at 20 yards, for the official round. Nothing wrong with shooting at 10 or 15 yards though. Officially I think you get 4 minutes to fire 5 shots, but whatever it takes is fine for informal shooting. Target height is fine also. Don't know about the scoring differences, but you will as soon as you try it. Have fun with it.


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## DwayneR

Good to see people finally shooting the ol 5 spot. . .

It will make a hell of a better shot out of all of you!

Dwayne


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## lazy ike

If I am correct on this, the time limit is 3 min 20 sec per 5 arrow end. That is only shooting time. Arrow retrieval time is not counted.
One of the other guys will have good a idea of scoring differences for OLY,Barebow and trad. My own limited knowlege says that 250's are toward the upper end for trad. 280's for barebow and 300 for OLY. But like I said some of the other guys will know better than I.


Ike


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## steve morley

Shot with new set of Samick Athlete limbs today, took me 20min to find my gap, which left me a little rushed to score a full round, but I manged a 262 with 5 3's three of which were the last two ends because I basically ran out of time.

Enjoying the Recurve even more now, I hope I can transfer what I learnt from Recurve shooting to my Longbow when I switch back (when the warm weather returns)

We have our Nationals in a few weeks, I'm thinking I will stick with the Recurve till then and see how I do, the recurve Bowhunter record is 272 so I'm thinking it's within my reach.


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## centershot

Good shooting for a speed round! What's the rest of your setup?


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## centershot

253 10X new Personal Best this morning. Had 2 horrible shots in the 2 ring that held me back or I could have given 260 a run. First 2 came at the switch to the lower target, first arrow whack 2...arrg. I did make up for it though the next 4 arrows were 3X's and a 5. Next bad end was the last end, a mixture of fatigue, excitement and adding up my score before I shot it netted me a 17. The only end in the teens the whole game. Oh, well....It was fun and inched the bar a bit higher.


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## Luv2shoot

Centershot,
That's some very good shooting and 10 X's is great.
I also have the same issue with one or two very bad shoots keeping my score down.
It seem like I don't shoot 3's !!!!! because when I have a bad shot it's a "0" 1 or 2. The rest of the time I shoot 5's & 4's.
Keep up the good shooting and the 260+ will be yours.


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## steve morley

centershot said:


> Good shooting for a speed round! What's the rest of your setup?


I shoot mostly Longbow but had a dabble in Recurve recently, I have a W&W winstar with 48# Winex limbs, Flipper rest and pressure button, Carbon express 150's with 4" Quick Spin vanes.

I just got a set of 35# Samick Athlete limbs, I got them for Bale\Form work and just thought I would try them out, the 1916's I got didn't fly well so by chance I tried the Carbon Express instead, considering I didn't tune bow or alter anything I was pleased with that 262 score. 

If I could do that score with Longbow + Woodies I would be very please :wink:

score went like this

54444 = 21
XX544 = 23
X5443 = 21
XX544 = 23
XXX44 = 23
XX553 = 23

=134

54444 = 21
XX544 = 23
55443 = 21
X4444 = 21
X5443 = 21
XX443 = 21

= 128


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## centershot

Very nice, I should write down the ends, but I usually just add them up and wright it on the target face - Total the end and call it good....1816's are working well in my 35# bow. I would like to try some long and heavy arrows just to see how I could shoot with the gap being closer. I did shoot 5 arrows at 30 yards being how nobody else was at the range. First shot off a bit second close then finally I realized the arrow point at 6 o'clock on the 5 was the spot......next 3 arrows all in the 5 ring. Fun stuff!


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## John49

OK I have been reading this thread from the beginning, you guys finally got me interested. I have always shot the fita 600 round, which this year I have been averaging around 450 with my Fox Triple Crown longbow [email protected], 1916 aluminum arrow. Last week I shot 2 NFAA 300 rounds at the local bow shop. I had 235 7x and 236 5x. I was pleased with the results. I thought shooting 5 arrows an end was easier to get into a rhythm than just the 3 per end. I'm not saying it was an easier game, the spot i'm trying to hit is the same size, just easier to get into a flow and it goes faster.


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## centershot

And you get to shoots in before you have to go pull your arrows! Good for you, I hope there are more folks out there 'punching paper'. Whether you post your results or not, this post will gives a great example of what others of similar or different experience levels are shooting. It's all good.


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## steve morley

That score I feel is a real achievement for me, a few years ago I was shooting 250’s with Longbow and Woodies then a had a big mental breakdown at National champs and didn’t even make 200, I never really recovered from that incident, In 2007 I built up to a high of 243 at World indoors shooting Longbow but I’ve never felt comfortable on the line again at an indoor tourney. I make myself shoot because I know it’s good for my shooting when I get back outside in the Spring.


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## centershot

I had 'a moment' while shooting the other day. I had to stop and assure myself that if I preaim, set the gap, then aim hard and make a good release...........I can't help but make a good shot. Funny how confidence and target panic are a 2 blade sward. I've had some bouts shooting compounds but good form breeds confidence and confidence conquers fear.


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## Flyboy718

Personal best tonight...218 with (10) 5's and (2) X's and only my second time shooting a 300 round, shot a 190 last time.


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## rambo-yambo

I assume the scores are with an olympic set up (sight, stabilizer clicker etc). Can someone tell me what would consider a decent score and what average score is needed to win a state tournament for barebow?:tongue:


----------



## BLACK WOLF

rambo-yambo said:


> Can someone tell me what would consider a decent score and what average score is needed to win a state tournament for barebow?:tongue:


Decent, IMO...is a score between 200 - 220.

The score that will win most barebow competitions will be about 265 or more. In larger tournaments it may take a score of 275 or more. Most barebow classes include compound bows and most of the time...they are the ones winning those competitions.

Ray :wink:


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## pokynojoe

centershot said:


> 12 sets of 5 arrows at 20 yards, for the official round. Nothing wrong with shooting at 10 or 15 yards though. Officially I think you get 4 minutes to fire 5 shots, but whatever it takes is fine for informal shooting. Target height is fine also. Don't know about the scoring differences, but you will as soon as you try it. Have fun with it.


:

If you are referring to the NFAA indoor 300, you are mostly right. However, when you participate at the state tournaments(or even many local ones for that matter) the usual format is you shoot a double line, that is six ends "up" and six ends "bottom". With bottom shooters up first(typically). The time limit is indeed 4:00 minutes for five arrows. At state and sectionals you shoot two rounds of sixty arrows, but you usually shoot over two days. Oh and it used be that you got a ten minute break between the sixth and seventh end, but not any more. The other thing is sometimes(although not that much anymore) the shooting line gets quite crowded. And if your left handed(like me) its good to practice with someone, because if you shoot a tournament, I guarantee you, unless you're next to the wall, someone will be staring at you the whole time.


----------



## Viper1

Joe -



pokynojoe said:


> :
> 
> If you are referring to the NFAA indoor 300, you are mostly right. However, when you participate at the state tournaments(or even many local ones for that matter) the usual format is you shoot a double line, that is six ends "up" and six ends "bottom". With bottom shooters up first(typically). The time limit is indeed 4:00 minutes for five arrows. At state and sectionals you shoot two rounds of sixty arrows, but you usually shoot over two days. Oh and it used be that you got a ten minute break between the sixth and seventh end, but not any more. The other thing is sometimes(although not that much anymore) the shooting line gets quite crowded. [/QUOTE}And if your left handed(like me) its good to practice with someone, because if you shoot a tournament, I guarantee you, unless you're next to the wall, someone will be staring at you the whole time.


Yup.on all counts. That's why so many people "freak" the first time they hit a real indoor match. When you're used to shooting from a 2' box night after night, you do get numb to it. It's also one of the things a lot of instructors/coaches these days don't prepare their charges for. 



> And if your left handed(like me) its good to practice with someone, because if you shoot a tournament, I guarantee you, unless you're next to the wall, someone will be staring at you the whole time.


If your lucky (and single) better hope she's cute ... 

Viper1 out.


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## pokynojoe

Viper1 said:


> If your lucky (and single) better hope she's cute ...
> 
> Viper1 out.[/QUOT
> 
> I wish I had a dollar for how many times over the years I've been hit in my "unmentionable" parts by swinging stabilizers. People, don't step away from the line until EVERYONE is finished shooting! Also, it can be very distracting when you're shooting next to a well-endowed lady archer on a crowded line!


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## centershot

Line edicate often goes out the window at the bigger shoots. Guys that are nice and wait for everyone to finish on League night will leave the line when they are done, not you. 

252 8X this afternoon, average is bouncing right around 249/250.


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## Viper1

Center -

Basic rule, I don't get on or off the line when the person on either side is drawing or at anchor. A little common courtesy goes a long way - still.

BTW - nice shooting!

Viper1 out.


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## rambo-yambo

BLACK WOLF said:


> Decent, IMO...is a score between 200 - 220.
> 
> The score that will win most barebow competitions will be about 265 or more. In larger tournaments it may take a score of 275 or more. Most barebow classes include compound bows and most of the time...they are the ones winning those competitions.
> 
> Ray :wink:


Do compound and recurve shooters compete against each others in bare bow competition? Or are they in separate divisions? 

Usually I did bad in the first half (20% lower score) of a tournament and did good in the second half of the shoots, is there anything I can do to improve that? Thanks.


----------



## BLACK WOLF

rambo-yambo said:


> Do compound and recurve shooters compete against each others in bare bow competition? Or are they in separate divisions?


It depends on the competition. Check the rules before you attend a particular shoot.



rambo-yambo said:


> Usually I did bad in the first half (20% lower score) of a tournament and did good in the second half of the shoots, is there anything I can do to improve that? Thanks.


Yes...there are somethings you can try that have been proven to be effective for other archers. Here are just a couple.

1. Develop your form to the point it is very repeatable. If you have to struggle with an aspect of your form...it will most likely only get worse when it's time to compete. The Blank Bale is a great place to work on this.

2. Develop a mental check list in your routine to force the mind to concentrate on one thing at a time instead of allowing it to wonder or get easily distracted as you are drawing and shooting your bow.

3. Develop an aiming technique that has advantages in your desired competition and/or that is easy for you to execute effectively.

Ray :wink:


----------



## Viper1

r-y -

In days past, the manor in which a bow was shot was the determining factor, not the bow itself. Back then, compounds and stickbows did shoot in the same class. To my mind that made perfect sense, These days, it will depend on the org or club running the shoot.

Needing a warm-up period isn't uncommon. When I was competing, I always did well on night shoots (with plenty of warm-up time) and generally worse on weekend shoots with only 2 practice ends. But hey, I'm not a morning person 

Assuming you do have your ducks in order (shooting-wise), the only way to get used to it, is to get used it! The more you shoot, the more you'll shorten the acclimation curve. 

Just to cover all bases. Make sure your equipment doesn't require a warm-up too! For example, Hoyt G3 limbs are very smooth and fairly quick, however in the colder months, they take 2 or 3 ends to settle (it's a pretty well known "feature"). The groups start at 12 o'clock in the 4 ring and by the third end are centered in the X and stay there for the rest of the day. Just something else to consider.

Viper1 out.


----------



## rambo-yambo

Usually I check the brace height when I first set up the bow, do I have to readjust the brace height in the middle of the tournament to make sure the string is at the same tension to compensate for posibble stretching? Thanks.


----------



## Viper1

r-y -

On a *broken-in string*, the brace should *NOT* change during a shooting session. If it is, get a new, properly made string.

Since your arrows probably have a crest or logo somewhere ahead of the fletching, making a note of where it crosses the rest or shelf is a quick and easy brace height check. 

Viper1 out.


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## barebowguy

barebow in a NFAA competition would be compound or recurve 
barebow in a NAA competition would be recurve only, both of which you could stringwalk


----------



## Eldermike

Put a new bearhair rest and string on my 1974 Bear kodiac hunter and shot a 234 with it this morning.


----------



## barebowguy

I shot a 293 on monday night with the nfaa target, but the weather is nice so I am going to back outside and shoot.


----------



## Eldermike

293 is amazing I would love to see a 293. That's 53/60 center ring hits at a minimun, 24.4 average on ends.

I just finished shooting another round with the Kodiac, shot a 242. That's a 20 average on ends, and about as good as I shoot.
I am still amazed at the older Bear hunting bows. For a 60 inch 45 lb bow it's as good as anything new I own.


----------



## SandSquid

Got my brand new DAS Dalaa 21" riser and slapped the 30# limbs off my 17" riser, giving me 27# @ 27", whipped up a string, stuck a sight on it and 
shot a 207_4X with it right out of the box, shooting off the shelf. I may not even put a rest and plunger on it.


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## Flyboy718

215 today with only three arrows...:darkbeer:


----------



## steve morley

Shot 259 with two 24's on last 3 ends and only six 3's. I'm sure I could do better if I wasn't speed shooting against the Longbows, I'm drawing up on my 4th arrow any they have finished and all watching me, I found with the heavy Riser I need more time to recover, not used to the weight after so long shooting Longbow. 

We have Nationals in two weeks and will shoot in Compound line up so I have all the time I need. Enjoying the consistency of the Recurve, I need to keep this setup now for a couple of weeks as I've been playing with Longbow and different Recurve limbs and noticed it took me 5 practice ends to get dialed into the bow last night, wont be able to do that at the tourney.

I always struggled with indoor rounds after a bad Longbow experience but the Recurve is showing me I can shoot nice consistent groups, I'm actually starting to enjoy the 300 round again


----------



## rsarns

WOW BArebowguy, not sure what the 1 round NFAA record is but the 2 round is :

A M TRAD T. Burns KS 1998 569 46

SO all you would have to do is back that 293 up with a 273 and you would be the NFAA Record holder. Awesome shooting......


----------



## rsarns

barebowguy said:


> barebow in a NFAA competition would be compound or recurve
> barebow in a NAA competition would be recurve only, both of which you could stringwalk


Traditional NFAA states:

This style of shooting is for those who wish to compete with the Recurve or Longbow.

The archer shall touch the arrow when nocked and drawing the arrow with the index finger against the nock. Finger position may not be changed during competition. In the case of physical disability of the arms or hands, a chew strap may be used in place of fingers.




That tells me no string walking is allowed in Trad.

Barebow can be any bow, with no sights or release aid. 

http://www.nfaa-archery.org/field/styles.cfm#Barebow


----------



## Str8 Shooter

Alan (barebowguy), 
Awesome shooting. I've seen your scores in some of the various shoots (NAA Nationals, NFAA Field Nats, FITA records). I haven't seen the final results from this years NAA Indoor Nationals but I saw your total. I think its safe to say congrats on the win. 

Chris


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## centershot

Barebowguy, Excellent shooting. What is your setup? I'm curious because at our State shoot last weekend BigCnyn was shooting with long stabilizer and v-bars. Before I saw his setup and looked at the barebow rules, I thought that the stabilizer had to be 12" max. like the unlimited bowhunters. It appears that a guy could shoot a full Oly rig without a sight, stringwalk and still be within the rules. PLEASE understand that he is a heck of a shot and could probably shoot 270's with his hunting bow, I am NOT saying long stabilizers will increase you score dramatically if at all. Just that it was a bit of a suprise to see the bow and wondering if your setup is similar. I'm always intersted in seeing what and how the best shooters are doing.


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## rsarns

Very nice shooting and win at Redding last year Barebow.


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## saddlesore

*border hex v*

great to hea rthe reports . i shot 236 261 247 in the IFAA INTERNATIONAL MAILMATCH and currently in 2nd place . in bowhunter recurve class


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## centershot

249 - 11X, back to the average with the pressure off......warming up outside, so this may be one of my last indoor rounds for a while.


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## Flyboy718

center...your a machine dude. Are you gap shooting or purely instictive? I need to get someone to help me with my form and I would be right there with ya. I am self taught and I know that is the missing link. I have been smoking the 3D courses so far this year, but I want to get my NFAA scores up and maybe start trying to punch paper...I wanna go to rick welches school REALLY bad, can't do it this year, so maybe next.


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## centershot

I shoot gap/instinctive. I draw back, check my gap, then focus on the spot and release. To set your gap, shoot point on. If your on the target, you can flip your target over and aim point on where your arrow hit before, walla right in the middle. I've plotted my point on's for 5-40 yards and wrote the gaps on a piece of tap and stuck it on my bottom limb. I guess the yardage, set the gap, focus on the spot and release. It's simple and effective, but none of it is any good if you form is not consistent.


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## Viper1

Center -

Amazing stuff can happen when you have a plan and stick to it, huh?

:darkbeer:

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

It really is pretty amazing - all the parts build on each other until it comes together in the middle. I'm a bit disappointed though, when I started this I thought there was a bit of magic to it.............I guess the real magic is hitting what your aiming at.


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## Viper1

Center -

There IS magic to it, and I think you've found it.

Viper1 out.


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## Flyboy718

*Magic*

What's this MAGIC stuff yall are talkin about...I need to know!:darkbeer: Can I rub sum on my bow?


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## barebowguy

to answer your question centershot I shoot a spigarelli arco sport riser, I use different limbs depending on wether I am indoor or outdoors I dont use stabilizer or v bars except for vegas. I just orderd 48# long limbs and cant wait to try them outdoors.


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## centershot

Thanks barebowguy,
I'm new to this and hope you can give me a little more insite. What is your arrow setup? Material, size, fletch, point weight, length...and where is your point (assuming a point on type of shooting) on the target? My current setup has a gap at 6 oclock 15" low at 20 yards. I would like to get a setup where I can get the point on the target face for next years indoor shooting. Hopefully getting the point on closer will help. Thanks.


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## SandSquid

Viper1 said:


> There IS magic to it



The magic happens when you are standing there and the bow just shoots. You feel the bowbend and curve, you feel the string slide from your fingers at the moment of maximum tension, you feel the arrow, yet you are not there controlling it, you are part of it, and it is part of you. The bow draws under perfect tension, like raindrops collecting on a tall blade of grass. And the string releases from your fingers like the water dripping off the tip of the grass when it canhold no longer. _When you feel that_, you are hooked forever, and always chasing that perfect effortless shot, when the bow shoots the arrow.

This happened to one of my students this weekend at NFAA Nationals. I was watching him shoot and saw what looked like the best shot he ever made, I mean perfect. it looked amazing. it only scored a 3 but looked perfect. After his end was over he came to me just glowing, said "Coach, I felt it! I know what you mean... the bow shot. I let the bow shoot the arrow!!! I get it, it was perfect harmony, it was like totally divine and in perfect balance and harmony." I just smiled and said I saw it, it was the "3" wans't it? Now,go and let it happen again, and again and again. 

Letting it happen again, and again is easy to say, but much harder to do. How can you consciously let the bow shoot, and not control the bow? 
It's almost a self defeating proposition. It's like the junkie chasing the "perfect high".


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## centershot

Well it's still cold out, so I shot another indoor round. 249 12X - seems to be just about average, couple of 2's, few 3's but mostly 4's and 5's. I shot with a couple of compound guys (so, so with hunting bows) One guy shot a 265 and the other a 250 - thier eyes were pretty wide when they ask my score. Fun Stuff.


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## Viper1

Center -

That's a pretty good average.

Doesn't say a lot for "those" compound guys though. 

The following is just my personal take on things:

With bare bow shooting, including (non-over-bowing) bow hunting rigs things start "happening" when people approach the 240 mark.

With Oly type bows, it's a 270 and with compound types (sights/releases), you're really looking at the 285-290 range.

Those seem to be the turning points, meaning the details become more and more critical.

Viper1 out.


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## Eldermike

Viper, I agree, I shoot with some compound guys every now and then, informal indoor stuff. They shoot the little bitty 5 spots and I shoot the full size NFA targets, they shoot 298/300 every time and I shoot 250 and less. But it's fun to do and they do respect the stickbows.


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## centershot

They were just a father and son shooting thier hunting bows, nothing special, just having fun scoring a round shooting thier bows. FWIW I'm a 300 56X average shooter with the compound unlimited bow, or was before the first of this year.......I haven't picked it up since I caught this traditional bug!


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## jbl

I started scoring some of my practice 300 rounds (I shoot thumb draw 40# Kassai Panther Magyar bow) and my last score at 20 yds was a 218. I was pretty happy I hope I can consitently shoot above 200. I find that scoring forces me to be more disciplined on everything. With the Kassai I shoot off my hand with the arrow on the draw hand side so I am becoming more consitent on all the little things such as hand placement and the hold. The arrow is not in my sight picture but I have found just holding at full draw for a few seconds seems to settle everything down before I release.


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## 10ex

I started shooting barebow about 18 months ago. I shoot at a wednesday night league at my local club and my score is usually 450-480 for 60 shots 40cm target. I entered my first 2 competitions this spring and in competition found that the increased concentration brought my score up. I ended up with 505 in the last one.


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## Flyboy718

*Personal best tonight...*

Personal best tonight shot a 230 from 20 yards, only my fourth 300 round. Shot it with only 3 arrows too.


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## Viper1

10ex - 

You're shooting the 18M FITA round, right?. There's probably a fudge factor to convert the FITA (or Vegas 3 spot) to an NFAA score, ibut I don't know it.

A lot of people assume that going to a bigger match always results in a lower score, that's not always the case as you experienced. The determining factor, IMHO, isn't simply concentration, but more of confidence. If you KNOW what you're doing, not think you know what you're doing, things have a habit of falling together - (some times). 

Welcome aboard. Give the blue target a try if you can.

FB -

Cool! But go for the five arrows ... 

Viper1 out.


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## Flyboy718

Viper1 said:


> 10ex -
> 
> You're shooting the 18M FITA round, right?. There's probably a fudge factor to convert the FITA (or Vegas 3 spot) to an NFAA score, ibut I don't know it.
> 
> A lot of people assume that going to a bigger match always results in a lower score, that's not always the case as you experienced. The determining factor, IMHO, isn't simply concentration, but more of confidence. If you KNOW what you're doing, not think you know what you're doing, things have a habit of falling together - (some times).
> 
> Welcome aboard. Give the blue target a try if you can.
> 
> FB -
> 
> Cool! But go for the five arrows ...
> 
> Viper1 out.


LOL, yeah I didn't have enough fletched, I gotta buy some more feathers some day.


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## Robinhood2010

Over the weekend shot 2 300 rounds one with 12 ends of 5 arrows the other 20 ends 3 arrows both scored a 200.


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## I'm Not Ted

Shot my first round with my Savannah and some new Legacy's today. 3 round I've shot ever. Was gonna do it at 20 yds but after seeing the consiquences, moved up to 15. Shot a 222. Could have been a bit lower as some of the points I gave myself may have been questionable (were they REALLY touching the line?) But I think I did okay overall.


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## kegan

I'm Not Ted said:


> Shot my first round with my Savannah and some new Legacy's today. 3 round I've shot ever. Was gonna do it at 20 yds but after seeing the consiquences, moved up to 15. Shot a 222. Could have been a bit lower as some of the points I gave myself may have been questionable (were they REALLY touching the line?) But I think I did okay overall.


I just finished a target that _holds_ arrows, so I'll give my second round a go tomorrow... albeit it with the only two arrows I have left!


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## centershot

Kegan, I think you'll be getting your exercise along with shooting - 30 trips to the target and back is a little over 5/8 mile per round.....


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## kegan

Exhausted, equipped with the same 73# selfbow that stacks at the end of the draw and has a funky sight window that blocks my right eye, and shooting only two slightly off-tune arrows... and I shot a 181 at 20 with five X's. Hardly soemthing to write home about, but that's almost a 40 point increase from my last score. I also learned I have concetration problems, with that being my biggest issue:lol:. I had a blast and intend to keep after it now that the weather is nice.


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## centershot

That's great, I'd have to just score a couple ends with a 70# bow, no way I'd get that back 60 times. Thought you were building a lighter bow for some target shooting?


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## Viper1

kegan -

One of the guys who taught me, many, many moons ago, said that he never "concentrated". Just paid attention to what he was doing and did it (paraphrasing, as he was a little more colorful...). I like using the work focus, but it comes down to the same thing. No need to burn yourself out 

Viper1 out.


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## kegan

That's my problem! I originally would start burning a hole in the target before I started my draw, and by the time I got to anchor I'd lost focus and was simply looking at the whole target. Well, that would get me more flustered so I'd start overhtinking and I had a couple ends at the start like that where I... well, I shot my notebook off the top of the target:lol:! Then I reliezed that I was putting too much focus on the wrong stuff, so I duplicated what I had been doing in practice: drawing up and back, anchor, aim and shoot. Smooth, relaxed, fluid. I did that and shot a few 8's and a 10 (with my two-arrow ends:lol. So I just kept doing that until a grouse came up to visit and started chirping at me and I sorta lost focus.

But my best shots were where I was just that: aware of what's going on but not "concentrating". Relaxed, fluid. Now I just need to work on doing that over and over from start to finish:lol:!

Oh, and maybe a more shooter-friendly bow


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## kegan

Centershot- Walking back and forth gives me tiny little "mental vacations." I swear I'm starting to develope ADD! And I am, or at least had been, building a bow for target shooting. I've just been getting bows done for others, and it _could_ be worse- at least I stopped using the 85# dog-of-a-bow hanging on the rack, right?


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## Viper1

kegan - 

Two words - shot sequence. Work on that, and stop starting forest fires! The thing about doing it by the numbers, is that you have something concrete to think about. You acquire the target before you ever raise your bow, but your focus needs to tighten on the target only after everything else is set. 

... and I know you know this stuff :thumbs_up

Viper1 out.


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## kegan

Alright, same set up as before this morning I shot a 185 followed by a 195. Getting closer to 200. Getting there, but have more work to do!


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## barebowguy

Centershot- I try to find the longest aluminum arrow that I can find and then weight the tip to get them to tune properly. this year I was shooting 2314 that were 341/2" long with a 100 grain tip and 5" feathers for the NAA events that put my point on about 2" below the paper. 
for Vegas I used a full length 2712 with 300 grain tips and 5" feathers and my point on was bottom of paper.


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## barebowguy

it was raining today so I went to the local indoor range and shot 5 vegas rounds with my outdoor setup 272,275,272,274,273 I was pretty happy with that but was shooting too many 8's
Alan


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## rsarns

Today I was scouting for spring bear and doing some stump shooting, scored a 30 for 30 on stumps..... :wink: oh ya and most were 20-30 yards, a couple strectched out to 40.


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## centershot

barebow, Thanks for the insight. I would like to get a dedicated indoor setup for next winter. I would like to get the gap closer to the aiming point and give that a serious try. Right now my Point On in -20" at 20 yards - that leaves me quite a bit of room for error when checking the gap.

rsarns, exactly why the NFAA round is such a great indicator of one's abilities. 30 for 30 on stumps in the redwoods is likely easier that 30 for 30 on the stumps you were shooting.................

Anyway, back on topic. Shot a 252 (87, 85, 80) 7X last night - pretty much right on my average. A bit of a let down after the 266 a couple weeks ago......... my lack of focus in the last game hurt the overall score. Overall felt pretty good to shoot a decent round and get my confidence back after messing with tuning for too long.


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## DwayneR

centershot said:


> barebow, Thanks for the insight. I would like to get a dedicated indoor setup for next winter. I would like to get the gap closer to the aiming point and give that a serious try. Right now my Point On in -20" at 20 yards - that leaves me quite a bit of room for error when checking the gap.
> 
> rsarns, exactly why the NFAA round is such a great indicator of one's abilities. 30 for 30 on stumps in the redwoods is likely easier that 30 for 30 on the stumps you were shooting.................
> 
> Anyway, back on topic. Shot a 252 (87, 85, 80) 7X last night - pretty much right on my average. A bit of a let down after the 266 a couple weeks ago......... my lack of focus in the last game hurt the overall score. Overall felt pretty good to shoot a decent round and get my confidence back after messing with tuning for too long.


 Centershot,

I am not sure which fingers you are using. . .3 under or split, but, if you are shooting split, going to 3 under will give you a POA very close to your intended Bulls eye. 

Also one can change their anchor. . .

for example:

Those who anchor with index on mouth corner can anchor with middle finger on mouth corner and usually be close to spot on.

This does not mean to go out there and change everything around. It just means you may want to try it and see if it works for you.


Dwayne


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## Viper1

Center -

Don't know if you recall Dwayne, but he's been doing this for a while and has a bit of experience setting up bows for 20 yd events. 

Dwayne -

Good to see you posting again. Did ya ever think we'd see a 5 page thread on the 300 round in the trad forum? Guess there's hope after all. LOL.

Hope all is well, buddy.

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

Sorry, don't recall Dwayne........but, please excuse me I just started this recurve business in January. I noticed this thread has had over 6,000 views, pretty cool.

I shoot 3 under with my middle finger at the corner of my mouth. This gives me a point on at 35 yards and a max gap of about 20 inches. That works good outdoors and is what I am comfortable with. Problem is that the max gap is about 20 yards. I would like to (next winter) work up some long arrows that I can get point on about 10" below the target center for a stronger gap reference. Any tips or advice is certainly appreciated.


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## DwayneR

Viper1 said:


> Center -
> 
> Don't know if you recall Dwayne, but he's been doing this for a while and has a bit of experience setting up bows for 20 yd events.
> 
> Dwayne -
> 
> Good to see you posting again. Did ya ever think we'd see a 5 page thread on the 300 round in the trad forum? Guess there's hope after all. LOL.
> 
> Hope all is well, buddy.
> 
> Viper1 out.


 Good to see ya Viper!


It is excellent to see a 300 round thread!. .. .Gosh I remember we tried to start one a few years back, and just about got eaten alive. Told it was worthless, waste of time, has nothing to do with hunting, and everything else.

My left arm is getting stronger. . .I am hoping to be able to shoot more than a 30# compound this year. I still can't close my left hand, or grip with it. So, I have been trying to shoot with a 30 pound compound with 65 percent letoff. I think after a year, I will be able to pick up my lowest (29#) recurve and maybe fire off more than 4 or 5 shots.

I don't think I will ever be able to hunt again with my 45 pound recurve, but I sure can have fun shooting targets!

I don't think I will be able to shoot in the 270's again, but If I can shoot a recurve, I will be a happy camper and enjoy slamming the paper and (especially) coaching. Time will tell.

I did go hunting this last winter. Used a 30 pound compound and got a buck (10 point) at about 13 yards. I was good for one shot, and had to get some meat. 

How are things going on your end? Hopefully very well. 

Take care my friend....I will try to get on here every once in a while. If someone needs a little help, maybe I can give them what they need.

Dwayne


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## DwayneR

centershot said:


> Sorry, don't recall Dwayne........but, please excuse me I just started this recurve business in January. I noticed this thread has had over 6,000 views, pretty cool.
> 
> I shoot 3 under with my middle finger at the corner of my mouth. This gives me a point on at 35 yards and a max gap of about 20 inches. That works good outdoors and is what I am comfortable with. Problem is that the max gap is about 20 yards. I would like to (next winter) work up some long arrows that I can get point on about 10" below the target center for a stronger gap reference. Any tips or advice is certainly appreciated.


 Hello Centershot,

I don't know what your rig is. . .but here is a little more stuff that may work for you.

1. I have *always* (no matter what) shot full length arrows. I shoot full length hunting, target, and whatever. The only time IMO you should NEVER shoot full length arrows, is when you are using a clicker. When using a clicker (a clicker on the riser) you almost always have to cut your arrows to a certain length in order for the clicker to do its job. A limb clicker is different. 

2. Your pile (arrow tip). Changing weight on your tip can change your POA (point of aim). Granted, it may change the spin of your arrow, which in turn changes the Paradox the arrow goes through, but sometimes that is ok.

3. Your Brace height. Increase your Brace height. That will bring your POA Closer to your intended spot. A warning on brace height. To high of a brace height or to low of a brace height will give you arm slap or wrist slap. Brace height is a manufacturers recommendation. If a manufacturer says 7.5 inches, there is no reason why you can't go 8.5 or 9. AS the brace height increase, by rule of thumb, your accuracy will also increase. Sound will also dampen as a rule of thumb.

4. Hate to tell most people this, but feathers are NOT (repeat again) "are NOT" supposed to "straighten" your arrow flight. They are NOT supposed to "calm" down any kind of fish tailing, porpoising, or erratic flights of the arrow.
What feathers are, are "DRAG". This means the more feathers you put on your arrow, the more DRAG should be induced. The tighter the helix the more drag. This equates to your POA being closer to your intended aim.

So. . .here are some cheap fixes for your situation (since you have already done the different anchor points).

a. Raise brace height.
b. Full length arrows.
c. Little more weight on the piles (PS, I shoot 195 grain tips).
d. Who in the world made it illegal and unthoughtful to have only 3 feathers? Gosh darn, stick SIX feathers on that arrow! (that is what I do. . . :smile: )
e. Different degrees of Helix. . .go from 4 degrees to 6 degrees!
f. Use different length of Feathers! 3- 5" feathers means 15 inches of drag compared to 3 -4" feathers with 12 inches of drag. . .
g. *IF* (I say *IF*) you use string silencers, they are also drag. But you gotta make sure they do not move on you. Moving them down closer to the arrow means a slower flight arrow. But, you have to make sure of one thing. . .If you shoot competition, it must be high enough to where the judge clearly sees you are not using it as a sighting device. (Most all people do not put them that low. . .but I thought I would mention it because it is a device on the string.)
h. If you have limb screws. . .there is NO LAW that says they must be snug all the way down. You can let up on them a few turns.
I. Go for a heavier arrow... Nothing wrong with that! Little tuning here and there. . .
j. Go for a fatter arrow. . .You get more points, as well as friction is greater, causing the arrow to fly a little slower and be more of a POA.
k. Change tabs. . .Depending upon your tab (or glove) that you use, a thinner tab will usually cause the arrow to fly a little slower and put you closer on POA. It can also cause snap shooting, so be careful.

There are a few others, but this is a start. . .

Just make sure you have fun shooting!


Dwayne


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## centershot

Interesting, Thanks Dwayne.........My rig is a 35# Hoyt Dorado (60" AMO) my draw length is right at 28". I've been shooting it with a 7 1/2" Brace Height. I just increased it until the bow settled down and became quiet and left it there. I've been shooting it barebow off a NAP centerest flipper with 1816 arrows cut to 28" with 100gr field points and 3) 4" feathers. I shoot 3 under, anchoring with my middle finger at the corner of my mouth and thumb hooked under/behind my jaw bone. I'm a newbe, just started shooting Traditional in January. I have my NFAA 300 avererage hovering around 250 with a Personal Best of 266. (Thanks to Viper and his book). I've not experimented too much (yet) with different length arrows, but think this could be a good way to go in reducing gap at short ranges. I need some new arrows for some 40# limbs I picked up for the Dorado and have been debating what to go with. Full length 500 spine carbons keep creeping into my mind and appear to spine pretty close according to Stu Miller's Calculator. I've been a bit hesitant wondering if the long arrow creates paradox issues (slap the riser) or if the spine is correct length does not matter? It would be nice as the Beman ICS Bowhunter 500's are tough and cheap. Thanks.


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## DwayneR

Carbon vs Alum is a whole other argument between archers. (If you get my drift).

Just me personally. . . I have tried carbon. I have tried different carbons. I have also sold all of those carbons and sworn never to waste my money again. 

With that said, there are others that swear by them. So. . . *IF* I were you. . Before you waste any money. . . Borrow some carbons from someone. Try them. Then make your own judgment.

When I shot competition, (It has been a few years. . .like 10?) I don't remember seeing any carbons in the barebow class. But things change! There are plenty of carbons in the FETA arena. But the reason why they use carbon there, is because they want very little friction with a long cast. the feathers they use are extremely small for frictionless flight.

Since you are using 4" feathers, try 5 inch feathers. Also increase your brace height to 8.5 inches, instead of 7.5. I bet that will come close to making you happy. My guess is, you will be POA 6 Oclock on bottom of #1 ring. It would be nicer if you had longer arrows.

In fact, for the most part, longer arrows usually improve your aiming and score. It is much easier for someone to aim down a longer arrow than a shorter one for the majority of us. Also, try a 125 grain tip.

Granted, your tuning will be a little off, but you many not notice it that much.

Since you are scoring in the 250's, that means things are just starting to come together. You are past the beginners stage, you are into the tweaking stage. 

About the paradox:

Lets put it this way. . ..

A perfectly tuned bow will give that arrow (nomatter how long it is) that paradox flex around the riser of the bow.

But here is the catch:

Many times (or reality states) that the existence of that perfectly tuned bow doesn't always exist like it is supposed to.

So, we work on getting that bow tuned to the arrow *AS WELL* as the arrow tuned to the bow. And YES the tuning goes BOTH ways. We accomplish the above by giving and taking on each and every thing we do the the setup.

Increase our Brace height means loss of speed, a spine that is hypothetically increased in stiffness because you have shortened the power stroke, a change in the paradox, and for most of us a little better accuracy.

There is no reason why a person should not try something even though it will affect the paradox. That "try" could be the ticket between shooting a 250's and shooting 260's Quite easily at your stage.

Dwayne


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## Viper1

Center -

I told ya he knew what he was doing! 

Dwayne -

Glad to hear the arm is coming back, sorry it's taking so long. Good advise as usual.

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

Thanks Dwayne. I've been shooting carbons in my compounds for about 10 years now and really like how durable they have been. I may try some, if they don't work out - I'll cut the off and sell them to my compound buddies. If I were to go with aluminum, what arrow would you recommend for an all around longish arrow? The indoor stuff is about over and I'll use this same bow for a couple 3D's then hunting in the fall. It would be great to have an arrow that's a good compromise. Thanks.


----------



## kegan

It seemed to be a well kept secret that concrete scores _help_ improvement!

Late night but went out this morning to shoot a score anyhow. Didn't work out too well, with a pathetic 159:zip:. I was tired, but my current bow is rediculously unforgiving... and now it's fretting!

So... _more practice and a better designed bow!_:lol:

Speaking of which, what is the usual difference between a longbow score and a recurve score (if there is a difference)? I remember Steve saying something about it, but I don't recal?


----------



## DwayneR

Hello Centershot,

Your *all around* arrow will actually be based upon you and how well your bow tunes into the arrow. 

Your NAP centerest flipper is a good all around flipper, but if I remember correctly it does NOT have a spring tension adjustment. Thus, you will have a little harder time tuning in a stiffer spine than normal.

Whenever you stiffen your spine, you will either have to ease up on the rest spring (The plunger) , and/or move the rest closer to the center of the bow. What happens is, the paradox of the arrow does not quite do that perfect little snake and go around your rest and riser. 

The snake is more like a old man snake instead of a young whippersnapper doing the yoga. 

Thus, contact with the rest and riser is a little more likely. (But this is not bad per se!). This is also one of the BIGGEST reasons why we use feathers. To Deaden the effect of a improper paradox when it comes to close to the riser and touches it.

Believe it or not, my main 20 yard/meter arrow is a 2315. And it is full length. That is also with a 29#, 31#, 35#, 39# Recurves. All of them are Suns/ Hoyts. My main competition is a Conquest with graphite limbs.

I shot with the national champ for a few years, and he used a 2615? That arrow was so darn big, that it made mine look like a toothpick. :smile: It was full length. It was fun to watch him shoot. . .He would NEVER score under a 280. It was always between 280 and 285. His wife Maggie was a extremely good shot too.

I struggled for years to hit 280. Never was able to. I hit every score between 270 and 279. The archery range sold out and things went downhill from there. It took over 5 years before a range finally opened up. 

You have a good arrow. . .if you can borrow some Alums and experiment, that would be really nice. It is impossible to recommend a certain arrow for you. 

Yeah, you can go to an easton chart (which by the way is off), or you can choose the arrow that has the closest paradox that fits your bow. If it fits your bow, tuning will be really easy to do. Arrows will fly really nice. It is easy to tune. Most all people do it this way. .. they will say . . try a 1916 and a 125 grain pile. and go from there. 

My guess is, you can do a LOT with the arrows you have right now. . .More helix, heavier pile, and 6 feathers. Try that on a few arrows and see what happens. If it seems wonderful, then the next time you purchase arrows, don't cut them! (also 5 inch feathers)

You can choose a arrow based upon how you are going to shoot. (Like working on 20yd/m shots) and tune your bow and arrow together. Then you can use that exact same arrow for target, hunting, and 3D. 

Or, you can actually use two different arrows in the same bow. One for 20 yd/m and hunting, and another for 3d. the 3d arrow being the arrow that best fits the bow at hand. The other arrow being for 20 y/m and hunting. I have this setup also. This also (usually) requires a spring plunger.

And realize any of these unorthodox choices will affect the paradox of the arrow. But sometimes that is not a bad thing if you understand what is happening, take precautions (like feathers), and realize that your arrow may or may not hit your riser. The real question is: Will it IMPROVE your scores, or hinder you. When you know this, THEN you can make the decision of accepting the out of flux paradox or rejecting it for a better clearance and score.



Just wish you were in Wichita. I probably have a couple of hundred sets of alum you could try. Then you can play and find the arrows that you like the best.

Dwayne


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## Sanford

Excellent post, Dwayne. Having myself made a switch to full-length fat carbons at the start of indoor this past Fall, and currently shooting them for outdoor, I can fully appreciate your explanation of one's decision process involving arrow choice when convention usually dictates other choices.


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## Flyboy718

DwayneR said:


> Believe it or not, my main 20 yard/meter arrow is a 2315. And it is full length. That is also with a 29#, 31#, 35#, 39# Recurves. Dwayne


Just curious Dwayne...but how do you shoot that stiff of a spine shaft 2315 out of those poundages and get good flight? What is the advantage of shooting that shaft even if you can achieve good flight? What point weight would you use to get that shaft to spine out?


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## DwayneR

Sanford said:


> Excellent post, Dwayne. Having myself made a switch to full-length fat carbons at the start of indoor this past Fall, and currently shooting them for outdoor, I can fully appreciate your explanation of one's decision process involving arrow choice when convention usually dictates other choices.


 Hello Sanford. . .

It is very difficult to think outside the box when you want to do a certain "thing" differently.

Every time a change is made out of the "Ordinary" you give up something. Sometimes it is much better to give up something to gain something else. You will never know until you try.

For most newcomers in traditional bows, they only thing they want, it a bow that shoots arrows without fishtailing or porpoising. And I don't blame them one bit! I don't like it either myself. So how do you (over the internet as well as in person) get this person shooting as quick as possible with good arrow flight and piss poor form?

a. A arrow that is closest to the perfect Paradox of the bow.
b. Stick on some feathers about 15 inches long to help hide his errors. :wink:

Well, when this happens, they are shooting and having a lot of fun. In time their form starts to come together, and the arrow doesn't know it, (remember it has the huge flu flu's on it) and the bow doesn't know better.

Most of the Archers are perfectly happy for the rest of their lives with this setup. Then you get crazies and Loco's like me, Viper, and a few others on this forum. They want to TUNE that bow to where feathers are not needed to shoot. They may also want to tune diffferent arrows for a different cause, like 20 y/m competition, or 3d, or something else.

Getting around the conventional idea that a arrow "Must" do this, or Must do the Paradox perfectly or it is a no go is hard to do. When you do this, you also create another problem that tests your skills. . .the bow becomes a little more "touchy" and a little less forgiving usually.

Dwayne


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## DwayneR

Flyboy718 said:


> Just curious Dwayne...but how do you shoot that stiff of a spine shaft 2315 out of those poundages and get good flight? What is the advantage of shooting that shaft even if you can achieve good flight? What point weight would you use to get that shaft to spine out?


 flyboy when shooting stiff arrows as such, you must have EXTREMELY good form, and you must also have more than just a standard rest.

The rest should be double springed with plunger as well as up and down tension. The plunger should be variable tension from hardly nothing (for stiff arrows) to very stiff (for arrows of closer paradox).

When you shoot arrows of such stiffness, the arrow usually does NOT go into that much of a paradox. In fact, the paradox is probably done before it leaves the bowstring :smile:

One of the biggest keys to shooting the stiff arrows, is adjusting the plunger AS WELL AS getting that plunger just perfect on that riser. That plunder will be VERY close to the center of the riser, and the spring tension will be very weak. Once you get it adjusted, you can actually shoot bare shaft arrows out of that bow and they will hit nice and perfect just like feathered arrows.

The advantage of shooting such arrows, is competition. When you shoot competition Black Face, You will ALWAYS be shooting at 20 yards. (FETA will be 18 meters, when is within a foot or so of the 20 yard mark) When shooting such bows, you are NOT allowed to use any kind of sight for barebow competition. So you have a "Picture Window" or "Sight Picture" to go by. 

Many folks like to use POA (Point of Aim). One of the most common POA is the tip of the arrow and its placement someplace on the target. Some people will have it 6 Oclock on the 1 ring, some exactly where they want it to hit, and some have it elsewhere. But one thing stands out for sure. If you can get that tip *ON* the target someplace, you sight pictures becomes extremely easy to aim by.

If you have a bow that is shooting to fast, or maybe your body build causes your arrow tip to be WAY below the target, it makes it difficult to have a point of reference to aim by. Way back when, some people would put a soft ball, tennis ball, or Masking tape a "X" on the floor a certain number of feet in front of the target. They know if their arrow tip was on that object, their arrow will hit the Bullseye. 

They also know that a thick arrow will "Cut Lines". If that arrow even touches that line, you get the higher point value. Thick arrows are great for this. Thus, another reason to use thick arrows.

For the above reasons for POA, IMO there is no such thing as "instinctive" shooting. The closest thing to instinctive shooting you will do, is your very first shot. From there, your will aim higher, lower, more to the left, more to the right, and adjust some kind of "Gap" someplace to where you think the arrow will hit your target. 

What makes and breaks shooters is how and what they focus on. You either focus on the exact spot you want to hit and subconsciencely your mind gaps the arrow to your likings (which is what the good shooters do), or you focus on placing that point of Aim on a certain part of the target, and when you release, you KNOW your arrow will flight to it's intended place on the target. But that is a whole another argument between all the archers out there. It is an old argument that there is no winner, no agreement, and will always go on forever in the Archery arena.

I brought these things up NOT to start a stupid argument of this stuff on this thread (So lets stay away from that ok??), but to explain WHY arrows of heavier density, length, and make are used. In competition we WANT to use GAP, and what kind of GAP can help or hinder us. To much of a gap will not allow us to be as precise compared to a GAP that is only 1 inch from our intended spot to hit. Is it not easier to accurately measure (without using a measuring device) 10 feet within a quarter of an inch, or 2 inches within a quarter of an inch?

You ask me about the tip weight. . .I have named about 5 different bows of different poundages. Thus the tip weight would be different for each of those bows to have the proper paradox. Either way, If I remember correctly, a 2315 is about a 80 pound bow. (Without looking it up).

By adding more tip weight, I destroy my POA. Thus i do not want to do such a thing.

One thing for sure. . .My same arrow I used for competition, I tuned my 45# Mamba to. And I LOVED hunting deer with that Mamba. Thus I had hunting arrows as well as competition arrows. I would buy a dozen arrows, fix them up, weigh them, pick 6 or 7 of the closest weighted arrows for competition, and use the other 6 for hunting. I had the best of both worlds.

Dwayne


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## centershot

Thanks Dwayne. Your time and insights are much appreciated. I too wish I were closer to Wichita.........I'm sure I could learn more in an afternoon with you and Viper than I will in years of trial and error.


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## DwayneR

centershot said:


> Thanks Dwayne. Your time and insights are much appreciated. I too wish I were closer to Wichita.........I'm sure I could learn more in an afternoon with you and Viper than I will in years of trial and error.


 I think Viper and I had the same Mentor when we were growing up. We also had to learn from the mistakes we made, as well as watching others make mistakes.

We only try our best to make Archery as fun as possible with as few errors and hangups as possible.

When we coach, we may notice a few things. . .Something like 99 percent of the Beginners have problems because of. . . 
When this happens, we have learned that it is best not to do that approach for the most part. 


One of the biggest issues with form, is overbow. I realize this is also a huge age old argument that will never be won also. Overbow will almost guarantee things like snap shooting, target panic, scrunched shoulders, poor form, and many other things.

So, we tend to stress LOWER pound bows to keep this from happening. Does this mean people can't learn from a 45+ pound bow? No. it doesn't. But I can just about guarantee you that sticking to a lower pound bow will be MUCH more enjoyable, easier on your body, and will teach you FAR MORE in 2 months than a higher pound bow will teach you in 2 years!

What is really fun, is approaching these heavy bowers with a 30 pound bow. Challenge them to shoot that 30 pound bow. If they have never shot a 30 pound bow, I can almost guarantee you that their arrows at 20 yards will be lucky to hit the target even with 30 minutes of practice! The reason why, is they have not learned the proper release with their fingers!. There may be form issues too! The heavier bows "Rip" the string out of their fingers so fast that errors are much smaller on the release. You give them a lighter 30 pound bow, and their groups widen so wide that they can't figure out what is going on. Teach them that release on a lighter bow, and Presto!!! their hunting bow groups tighten up by a considerable amount. But, there are *always* exceptions to every rule of thumb. Which I am also glad about that also.

Just keep shooting to have fun. . .That is what the sport is all about. Whether you hunt, shoot competition, shoot for fun, or whatever. It is one big family with many ideas, ways of shooting, and room to grow in the future.

Dwayne


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## barebowguy

thanks for all of the great info, I love reading this thread.


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## jbl

Great thread that just keeps my interest with info. One thing I think that has really helped me is no matter what type of tackle you use or release it comes down to one thing the repeatable form to acquire accuracy. As I stated before I shoot with a thumb ring and what the 300 round has "forced" me to learn my form to the point I know when I loose an arrow what went "wrong" before the arrow hits the target.


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## centershot

244 Last night........first round with 31 1/2" carbons and the 35# Dorado. They shot good when I did, but did not seem to be very forgiving of a poor shot. I'll have to put a few more rounds in before I can make a good decision.


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## SCS

Got away ffrom the indoor for a couple of months. Went back inside and shot a 224 yesterday. It's getting there.
Steve


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## lazy ike

Dwayne , I really enjoy reading the wealth of information in your posts. 
I went out yesterday and shot a 300 round for the first time in a couple of months, and had a 244 8x.This winter my average was about 255 for 15 or 20 rounds. I've never shot indoor competition , but the idea of a long heavy aluminum arrow for competition is something I may try.
The outdoor season will be mostly 3d and hopefully a few field shoots(I've been working on gaps and poa's at different yardages. For field I think I will need to facewalk in addition to gap. I know that this is only allowed in bare bow, but I shoot with a limb mounted clicker so bare bow will be my classification anyway.
My question is about at what distance I should change my anchor.
My point-on with 3 under is 35yds . my next anchor is split-finger and point on is 50yds. then 60 and finally about a 12" low hold for 80yds. I'm trying to decide at what yardages I should move to the next anchor position. Do you think that always keeping the point below or on the spot makes more sense than using holdovers ? 


Ike


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## DwayneR

> My question is about at what distance I should change my anchor.
> My point-on with 3 under is 35yds . my next anchor is split-finger and point on is 50yds. then 60 and finally about a 12" low hold for 80yds. I'm trying to decide at what yardages I should move to the next anchor position. Do you think that always keeping the point below or on the spot makes more sense than using holdovers ?


 This is an impossible question to answer. EAch of us aims/anchors differently, each of us have different body configurations which gives us different POA with the exact same equipment. 

We may have a larger jaw which will lower the POA, We may have a longer drawlength, which will lower the POA, We may have a shorter fingers which will lower POA, We may have a longer face which will lower POA, and many other factors.

The most important factor IMO to remember, is WHAT constitutes YOUR kind of shooting. The second most important factor IMO is WHAT kind of CAST suits your shooting the best!

Let me explain.

One of the main ideas behind archery, is to have the FASTEST and most feasible arrow possible. (We are talking non-hunting now. . .)

a. Arc is MUCH less
b. Arrow is in the air a lessor time, thus wind will not affect it as much.
c. To a point, a faster arrow is more forgiving in a traditional bow.

If you go to a competition (long range outdoor FITA), you will find that the arrows they use are extremely small, extremely fast, and the "feathers" are EXTREMELY small. Those feathers are NOT used to "straighten" the arrow out because of poor tuning. These guys are looking for excellent cast with the least amount of poundage, along with the fastest arrow to do the job.

They do not want to be aiming their bows 500 feet above the intended target at 90 meters. They also do not want to be pulling back 65 pounds of bow either! 

One of the greatest disadvantages of a slower bow (and lighter), is the sensitivity of being able to shoot it. Your errors are amplified. You gotta HOLD your bow arm steady throughout the entire flight of the arrow. (Well, you are supposed to do this anyhow, but for lighter bows, people seem to lax up on this). And that bow arm has got to be SOLID for a longer length of time.

When you find the perfect configuration for you, that configuration will be for whatever shooting you are doing at that time. you gave an excellent example of the different string holding technics and anchor technics that will affect your POA at different distances. Even face walking can be used for shorter distances, just like string walking. But I do want to stress one thing. 

. .Accuracy means REPEATING and REPEATABLE steps. When you face walk, you are changing the "repeating". When you change tabs, anchor points, or anything else, you are not repeating. Thus, be aware that accuracy may change. Since you are shooting in the 250's, you are already aware of this, and know what a good shot feels like. I can also bet, that when you have a poor release, you will hit the Bullseye, or close to it, because of your form being concrete and steadfast. 

I can remember times when I release my arrow, and I KNEW it was a piss poor release, but the arrow would hit its target because my form was concrete and proper.

One thing that I would suggest doing, is having more that once set of arrows. One set of arrows can be used explicitly for 18M / 20Yd blackface/fITA shooting. These can be redwood trees. At the same time, you can have a lighter faster arrow for outdoor distances. You can adjust your bow to be happy with both, but you may find out that you have to aim just a little to the right of the Bullseye on the indoor targets. (Can't have it perfect all the time). The reason why, is because the spine of the heavier arrow is usually very heavy and it is a thicker arrow causing the plunger to be light spring, very near to the center of the riser. Most of your "lighter" arrows are smaller in diameter. When they are smaller in diameter, it sometimes causes your arrows to be a tat too much past center of riser, giving the arrow instability. For these cases, I tuned the riser to the smaller diameter arrow, not the redwood. I ended up with a POA about 4 Oclock in the middle of the 4 ring, Yet POA outdoors with different arrows at longer ranges. 

It is part of that give and take. Yeah, your bow is not perfectly tuned, but sometimes the take is better than what you give up!

About your holdover. _There is NOTHING wrong with a holdover, as LONG as it is not beyond your ability to mentally gap the holder consistently_, and (for me) when I gap, that gap must be made SUBCONSCIOUSLY with the focus on intending exactly where you want the arrow to hit, NOT on the gap of the POA. 

The most important of all, is your ability to KNOW what your POA is at different yardages. You have already shown me that you know that. The real question you should be asking is "Am I happy with this?" "Can I judge accurately the different yardages to where I can use this knowledge to accomplish what I want. Am I comfortable using *my* technic to shoot at my planned target on the field? If the answer is yes, than you are just fine.

The ideal situation is to have a POA at 20,30,50,70,and 90M For an adult you have it made.

I would not worry about my POA being perfect if I were you. It seems you are right on the money and know where to aim.

What I did, was keep the 3 under until my aiming technic was extended beyond my ability to aim accurately. Then I would switch to a split finger. I would use that until my aim techic was extended beyond my normal comfort range. Then I can switch arrows and go to under the chin 3 under, then under the chin split. But this takes time and practice until you know your POA for each of these configurations.

Remember one thing... As long as you can accurately Gap Subconsciously (or consciously if you do it that way) you are doing fine. Anytime when you cannot do the above, you will lose accuracy, faith in your shots, and/or ability to feel your shots. This can lead to other mental problems, like that TP stuff, and frustration. _You do NOT have to have a POA exactly the same place at different distances. You DO have to KNOW your POA at their specified distances and use that POA to adjust to other known distances you are shooting._

I hope that helped you out. If not, I will try again.



Dwayne

PS. . .in a nutshell. . ..

If your POA becomes out of your comfort range, or your ability to aim your best, then it is time to change your anchor point if possible.


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## lazy ike

Dwayne , You are either up very early or very late!! Thank you for all the great information . 
I guess that my arrows are neither the best indoor or outdoor choice right now. For that matter, neither is my bow. It is a 46 lb one piece recurve that does not have alot of mass. It feels like a one piece longbow in that regard. The arrows that I currently shoot are GT 35/55 that weigh 435gr. I shoot them because #1 they are fairly inexpensive #2 I was able to get them to bareshaft nicely out to 35yds. They shoot around 175 fps for me.They work pretty well for 3D but I know that a lighter arrow would make more sense for field type shooting.
I'm expecting some money back from Uncle Sam in a few weeks, and thus, I will be shopping for a new bow. ( I allready have a dozen Easton epic .600 shafts). I'm thinking of an ILF bow in the mid 30 lb range to serve as an all-around target rig. So maybe I'll try to nail down POA's after I get that set-up. 
Interesting that you use a sort of subconcious gap. That is what I do until I get past point-on range. Then it seems I'm a little more focused on POA than the intended target. Maybe that's why I asked the question about what distance to switch anchors.
BTW I use an under the chin split finger anchor but have not tried a 3 under hold at that anchor position. It might just give me a better at the 65 to 75 yd range.
Again , thanks for all the great info.


Ike

P.S. I unfortunately have met that TP guy. He's really a leech. Hence the limb mounted clicker....


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## DwayneR

Yeah, I was up a little late. . .Got home from Turkey hunting. . .didn't see a thing. So I thought I would stay up a little bit, watch Grizzly Adams, and see what was on the computer before crashing. 


We all get in habits. . .

When it comes to aiming with a gap, we always hear POINT ON, or 6 Oclock.

Usually (or should I say it is supposed to be) a situation where the paradox is working its best to snake around your riser. But reality is always different, hence feathers instead of vanes.

We get used to "seeing" the target above the point, kinda like a rifle when you aim. But there is no reason why you cannot hold at 12 oclock _Subconsciously_ either. It may be new to a person, but that is fine. You can only try it and find out.

The other point I am trying to make, is that 3 O'clock, 9 O'clock, and all the other "Hold" points are just as OK as the perfectly vertical hold points. As LONG as you as a person can execute with good form, and accomplish hitting what you want, THAT is what is important. Chances are, your paradox may be working at those different hold points!

Another thing. . .those who "CANT" the bow? If you hold their bow straight up and down, the arrow will probably NOT hit vertically on the target, but will probably shoot out to the left a few inches giving a impression of too stiff of a spine. But that is fine. their shooting style dictates that works BEST for them.

My guess is, *most* people use one type of aiming when holding below (Subconscious Gapping), and transition to Conscious Gapping when they have to hold above the Bullseye to the 12 O'clock position, or to where they cannot physically see the intended point of hit below the arrow tip.

About my aiming. . .I can remember (or I think I can remember. . .:smile: ) When I first started out with Traditional Bows. I believed I used CONSCIOUS aiming with a focus on the GAP, knowing that my arrow will arc towards its intended target and hit. It was easy to do, and got the job done good enough for me. But something happened, and sometime or another it switched to SUBCONSCIOUS gap and full focus on the spot I want to hit, NOT the tip of the arrow. Then my scores went up. That goes along with the saying "Aim Small, Miss Small". That arrow tip seems to take up the entire 5 ring on the Bullseye when you are focusing on the arrow tip. 3.5 inches is a lot of floating around. But when you focus on that "X", it is a different story.

This also goes hand in hand with a 5 spot compared to a single spot black face. Since it is harder to focus (for a barebower) on a small target among four others, a barebows score on a 5 spot is usually lower, and it is harder for a barebow person to hit the bullseye. But a blackface target draws your attention MUCH greater into the center of the X. You have only one Bullseye to focus on, and nothing around it to draw your attention from it. This is actually true for all shooters, not just barebow shooters.

30 pounds is excellent, and with ILF limbs, you can choose the limbs that work best for your range. Not only that, if you wanted to, you can get 45 pound limbs for hunting. Yeah, you will have a 66 inch bow, but that makes drawing easier with less chance of stacking. It will also have a very familiar feel about it. 

Main thing to remember. . .anytime you push your bow out of that perfect tune, you are giving up a little. Sometimes what you gain is better than what you are giving up. You will not know until you find out. Not only that, it may not work for me, but it will work for you.

People with BULKY arms (like me  ok, I am lying a little here) might be slapped all over the place with a 9 inch brace height. But others with skinnier arms (like Viper,  gotta tease a friend here) the 9 inch brace height is the ticket to winning.

Dwayne


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## lazy ike

Dwayne..... Again very interesting stuff. I really do think a 30ish pound ILF bow with an elevated rest might make these target games( including 3D ) a bit easier. Especially one with a bit more mass in the riser. I'm thinking of the Hoyt excel 21" with TT black max limbs.
Shot outside for a bit today with one of my friends at the club. Shot a fair amount of 20 yd stuff at the NFAA 300 face( Till my brain got bored ). then I started shooting some walk-back ends at the same face( 25,30,35,40 etc.)Really freshened it up a bit. Then my buddy added a new wrinkle. Starting at 30 shoot until you hit the 4 ring or better,when accomplished,walk back 5 yds and repeat. I only had 5 arrows with me so it really helped with focus.My best attempt out of 5 or 6 trys was 30 yd 1st arrow a 5. 35 yd 1st arrow a 4. 40 yd 1st arrow a 4. now i'm at 45 yds and feeling pretty good cause I've still got 2 arrows. a 3 and then a 1....oh well , still was fun and a good challenge. Next time I've got to get back to 50 yds before I run out of arrows........Maybe I should bring alot of arrows LOL.

Again thanks for the information, Anything you pass along is VERY APPRECIATED !!!


Ike:darkbeer:


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## kegan

Finally cracked the 200 mark with 201 this afternoon. Getting better, but still have a ways to go.


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## Viper1

Kegan -



kegan said:


> Finally cracked the 200 mark with 201 this afternoon. Getting better, but still have a ways to go.


Congrats! Nobody said this was easy. 

Next goal, 210, that would get you into "B" class, another milestone. 

Viper1 out.


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## Viper1

Kegan -



kegan said:


> Finally cracked the 200 mark with 201 this afternoon. Getting better, but still have a ways to go.


Congrats! Nobody said this was easy. 

Next goal, 210, that would get you into "B" class, another milestone. 

Viper1 out.


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## lazy ike

Kegan..... Great job !! Are you still shooting those heavy bows ?


Ike


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## barebow52

Well after a couple mths shooting; I have finally recorded my first nfaa rd at 20yds 235 6x's


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## Morisato

*arrows flying sideways*

oops... wrong thread... wanted to create a new one...


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## bshaver

barebow52 said:


> Well after a couple mths shooting; I have finally recorded my first nfaa rd at 20yds 235 6x's


Congradulations on good shooting and being almost there.


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## SCS

Shot a 226 over the weekend. Baby steps now, but staying over the 200 mark.
Steve


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## kegan

Thanks guys. Yesterday I went out and shot a 209 followed by a 216, I was pumped! Yup, still shooting my heavy bows Ike. The one I'm using is 73# at 29.5". It also has a limb fade in front of my right eye when I don't cant enough and stakcs the last two inches. If I can get over 240 with this thing I'll be one happy camper.

This may not be "easy" but it sure is fun.


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## centershot

Great shooting fellas, mixing in a 300 round with the outdoor mixed range shooting is a great idea. Sometimes it gets you back to basics and helps the form which helps the overall shooting. I'm going to try and get out tonight and shoot a round to see where I'm at.


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## Viper1

Kegan - 



kegan said:


> If I can get over 240 with this thing I'll be one happy camper.


Matter of time, buddy, just a matter of time!

Viper1 out.


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## SCS

Centershot, you're dead on. No matter what you shoot, compound or stick, it gets you back to basics. If you're not shooting good, it takes all the variables out.
Steve


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## centershot

245 last night. First round with new (fast) carbon arrows. Trying some Gold Tip Etrada 600's 8.7gpp arrows. These are fast, but made my gap about 6" bigger at 20 yards, so took a little getting used to. Trade off for outdoor speed is the mid range trajectory gap. Which happens to be worst case scenario at 20 yards...........go figure.


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## Viper1

Gents -

Generally don't post score, but have to brag a little ...

The Mrs. shot a 264, 9x today, bare bow (with a clicker) - her best so far by about 10 points. I'm kinda proud of her 

Viper1 out.


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## jrip

SCS said:


> NFAA indoor target at 20 yards, 12 rounds of 5 arrows, scored 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from the center out.
> I shot again last night. Boy, that sucked! Couldn't pull through the shot at all.
> Steve


Thats what we shot for our indoor spots league this past winter, I couldnt get the hang of the 5 spot targets so I stuck with the single spot.


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## kegan

Viper1 said:


> Gents -
> 
> Generally don't post score, but have to brag a little ...
> 
> The Mrs. shot a 264, 9x today, bare bow (with a clicker) - her best so far by about 10 points. I'm kinda proud of her
> 
> Viper1 out.


Several of us are thinking, "Man, I wish I could shoot like a girl!"

Congrats Viper and "Mrs. Viper"!


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## Viper1

Kegan -

Thanks buddy, she busted 3 nocks in the process (that was a record for her too) - I was having a hard time keeping cool while recording the scores, so I wouldn't disturb her "mental game", which was pretty much on! 

But, she pretty much does everything well ... 

Viper1 out.


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## kegan

That's just fantastic! It must be really nice to be able to share archery with your wife like that. Congrats again

Earlier this week I shot a 195, followed by another 195 today. Went in for lunch and went back out and shot a 206. I think I'm getting into my own head, because I can consistently shoot ends up around 19-21, but then I'll just blow an end with fliers and really low scoring arrows. Truth be told, it seems whenever I look down at the target I come up with some reason to doubt my abillity.

Of course, shooting heavy bows isn't helping anything either:zip:


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## centershot

Congrats to Mrs Viper! Great shooting.


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## centershot

Keegan - Attitude Buddy! No doubts..........Know that if you do your job that arrow has to go where it's supposed to. You can do it. If you have not already, start a shot sequence and follow it. If any part of the sequence does not feel correct - let down and start over. One arrow at a time, you can do it.


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## lazy ike

New book title... Shooting NFAA bare bow by Mrs. Viper....

Thats really good shooting !! I wan't to shoot like a girl too .


Ike


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## SCS

I shot a round with my 55lb Cheyenne last week. The good thing is I matched my 226 from my Quinn. The bad thing is I wore out half way through. Shot a 122 the first half but got the shakes from pulling the extra weight.
Steve


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## centershot

Rainy and nasty outside this evening so I went down to the club and shot a round - 251, just about average. It was fun to get back to a standardized round at a single distance - gets my focus back on the shot instead of guessing the gaps at varying distances......


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## Outback Man

Well, I still haven't shot beyond 10 yds. yet. Within the last couple of weeks I went to much lighter limbs, gained about an inch in draw length, and had to re-tool my anchor. I'm still shooting shafts that are way too stiff just because it's what I had, but I'm waiting on a dozen to come into the shop that will be better. Today was the third day I shot the new set up at the range, and only the second time I scored it. I shot three rounds and posted a 233 (8), 260(11), and 254 (6) for a 249 average. Not a ton of X's, but happy w/the better consistency. Another week or two like this and some proper arrows and I think I'll moved to 15 yds. and give things a run.


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## lazy ike

Shot my first 300 round as a lefty today. 247 with 9x's. Lost it just a bit for two ends in the middle game( had a 17 and 18 with a 1 in each ).Got back on form and finished pretty well. Games were 82, 80, 85.

I was glad that I could figure it out in the middle of the round and get back to what works for me. Sort of like a golfer diagnosing a swing flaw after the eighth hole and getting back in the groove.


Gomez


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## FLlongshot

I hadn't shot the 300 since last fall so last week I went out to my backyard range and shot a 239 with my 2016's and the next day shot a 237 with my tapered sitka spruce shafts. I'd forgotten how much fun the 300 round is. Shooting my 55# Bear Montana.


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## CEM

Glad to see this post. I'm pretty new to this, I started about 7 weeks ago. I shoot in my backyard and I'm teaching myself using a book and what I find on the internet. I don't really have much to benchmark myself against, but I have been scoring myself using this format. 

Well a little different. I shoot 5 ends of 6 arrows, take a minute or two break and shoot another 5 ends of 6 arrows, still 60 arrows total. I also draw my own target on the bag itself making rings of 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15 inches (just a little smaller than the standard rings sizes). I'm too cheap to buy paper targets and too American to measure in metric. 

I shoot with a pin sight though and I think a lot of the scores listed here are bare-bow. So far I regularly shoot a 210 or better at 15 yards. I just moved to 20 yards this weekend and was shooting in the 180s. Are these decent scores for someone starting out, factoring in the sight? I'm hopping to improve to a 210 within a few weeks. I'm trying to figure out a reasonable 3 month goal. Any suggestions? Appreciate any feedback.


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## Viper1

CEM -

Actually you're not doing that badly. I would stay at 15 yds until you're int the 240 range (since you're using a lightly smaller target, you can slide with a 230). 

Unfortunately, without being able to see you shoot, kinda hard to say anything specific. The name of the game is repeatability, so you have to make sure that everything is as consistent as possible. Since you're using a sight, while it takes aiming out of the equation, it doesn't forgive user errors - and that's a good thing.

Welcome aboard.

Viper1 out.


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## CEM

For comparative purposes, how many points does a sight usualy add? Thanks.


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## Sanford

CEM said:


> For comparative purposes, how many points does a sight usualy add? Thanks.


A recurve sight, lacking a rear peep and using finger release, is not a complete crutch to aiming. For me, it adds about 15% to my non-sighted scores, but given there are sometimes large variances of score even when sticking to one method, sighted or unsighted, that figure cannot be assumed as an exact. IOW, expect some benefit, especially at the longer ranges, but don't expect to drill 60 X's even at 20 yards. Outside of the 300-Round, on the long range, the benefit is much greater.


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## Viper1

CEM -

Just to add to the confusion - it depends on the limiting factor. I've seen a number of people who's form was so bad that adding a sight showed no difference in groupings or they actually got worse. The sight takes the "aiming" guesswork out of the equation, but can and will show the slightest form inconsistencies. Read: it doesn't forgive much. 

Like Sanford said, when going out to longer distances, it can help - a lot, understanding the above caveat. 

Note: I haven't shot longer distances in a little while but here's a picture of my first group last week from the 80 yd marker - yeah, it's with a sight... guess all that silly form work payed off at least on that end ...  

Viper1 out.


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## CEM

Thanks for the input guys. That will help a lot in coming up with some reasonable goals for myself. 

I can't comprehend shooting at 80 yards. I think it'll be a long while even before I use up the 40 or so in my backyard.


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## DwayneR

For me, sights added very little, if any to my score. 

Once you start scoring in the upper 250's and above, I think you will find your score is based upon your form.

Watch anyone who scores in the 260's and 270's, and you will see a rock solid form, from beginning to follow through. . .all the way until the arrow hits the target. 

Stable bow arm, Consistent Anchor, Consistent hand recoil, consistent posture, stance, and back tension.

Even beginners can see it. 

---------------------------------------------

One of my favorite things to do, is walk up behind students and beginners while they are anchoring and putting my hand about 1.5 inches away from their anchor hand. . . .Then they release. . . and WHAT a surprise they get when they whack my hand with theirs!

I find a lot of folks seem to want to "fling" their hand away from their face upon release. And they wonder why their arrows are flying left and right. That flinging is a burger to untrain!. . 

I then spend the next dozen or so arrows with my hand positioned during their anchor while they fire. The end result is astonishing for most. They go from a shotgun pattern to usually a up and down pattern. That up and down is usually from creep, different draw lengths, dropping of the bow arm before arrow reaching the target, and/or trying to purposely control the hand recoil upon moment of truth.

Dwayne


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## 57Loader

Hello, sorry for bringing back an old post. I have been following this thread from the start and I always wanted to post a score, but never shot one.

I got my first longbow about 3 weeks ago and have been shooting at about 11 yards down my hallway almost every day.


Got some targets in yesterday and shot a round from 10 yards. Shot a 269 with a broken nock and a robinhood. And the robinhood was a 5.

I thought that was pretty good so I took it out to the range today. Shot a 168 from 20 yards. I can't believe how much difference 10 more yards makes. And the target looks so big still.

Came home and shot through some paper. Change from 125 grains up front to 200 and was getting perfect bullet holes.

tried another round at 10 yards and shot a 227. I was pretty tired after shooting one round, sighting in my compound, and paper tuning my longbow.

Think I'll take the rest of the day off and work on the house. Probably get to shoot one more round in the morning.

By the way, after shooting 269 in the house yesterday I was thinking "this is easy". After going to the range today and shooting at 20 yards I am VERY impressed with the way you guys shoot. I have a long way to go, but this is the most fun I have had shooting in 20 years.


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## Viper1

57 -

Congrats, Most important thing is that you are doing it. 

See if you can shoot a round at 15 yds next, just for giggles.

Viper1 out.


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## CEM

Alright, I don't know any archers outside of this forum so I reserve the right to resurrect this post until the end of time for the simple purpose of having someone to tell my scores too. Yeah, I tell my wife but she doesn't really count since she doesn't shoot herself.

Anyway, just shot a 208 at 20 yards, I know its nothing to brag about, but for me it was fantastic, my previous best scores have been a point or two shy of 200. Additionally, I'm just coming out of what felt like a long slump. Very psyched.


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## Outback Man

This week I started shooting the 50# Bear takedown that I refinished and scoring rounds. It's probably pulling 54#-56# at my draw, which is a good jump from the 35# set up I've been shooting the last several months. Waiting on new arrows to come in, as my current ones might be a touch stiff.

Thursday shot a 10 yd. round at 252 (8) and jumped to 20 yds. to check it out and shot 201 (1). Decided to stick to 10 yds. and 15 yds. for now. Shot three rounds today...a 10 yd. at 257 (8), a 15 yd. at 248 (8), and another 15 yd. at 235 (5). 

Getting there I think...I'd like to have everything down out to at least 20 yds. by late Sept. cause I'd really like to take it out in the woods this year. Thanks.


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## 57Loader

Today is the coolest day we have had in Arizona for a while. Overcast and about 90 degrees. Got up early and went out before the wind started blowing. 

I shot a 175 on my first game from 15 yards. Then broke the 200 mark for the first time from past 10 yards. Shot a 209 on my second game from 15.

I went back to 20 to shoot a 3rd game but after my first 3 ends were 11, 6, and 9 I decided I was to tired for good practice and left. 

I seem to always have one arrow that is really high left, actually most of my bad misses are way high left. I haven't figured out why yet, they all still feel the same. I haven't shot long enough to "feel" what the difference in those bad shots are.


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## kegan

I haven't been able to shoot a score in a while. Been working on trying to get a new bow or two done, and working on doing some glass laminated longbows for the first time with my brother Kyle and friend Art. Happily I'm putting finish on a new bow, albeit a heavier one (I was hoping it would lose a few pounds in the break in, but I guess my building's getting better:lol.

Hope to have a few scores to post sooner or later though.


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## Boston Bowman

*practice strategy*

I don't get to shoot until night-time most days. So bsmt range is 11 yds. Been getting good scores lately.

I'm now trying to practice bare shaft and work up to the sames scores.

I'm assuming this will go a long way to help accuracy. BUT, will it cause me to develop a bad tendency or two that I have to watch out on weekend shooting at 20yds?


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## Viper1

BB - 

I have my students work on a 240 system. They stay at 10 yds until they can shoot a 240, then 15 till they can repeat that score, THEN 20. 

The only risk, for a somewhat accomplished/experienced shooter is that the closer distances can make a lot of mistakes and give a false sense of security. 

Depending on your level of experience/skill, if all you have is 11 yds, blank baling or the "watch the arrow" exercise might be a better practice.

Viper1 out.


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## barebowguy

Viper 
what is the watch the arrow exercise?


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## Viper1

BBG 0

Figured somebody was going to make me write it out - again ...  

It's a variation on blank bale shooting, where you stand fairly close to the target but instead of shooting at a blank bale and trying to just "feel" the form of the shot, once at anchor, you focus on the tip of the arrow sitting on the rest or shelf. You then watch the arrow as you release and it leaves the bow.

This does a few things blank baling doesn't. Most importantly, it gives you clear feedback on what you are doing during the shot sequence, especially after you relinquish control of the shot to the bow.

Here's a short list of what you should be able to pick up on:

1. Draw length consistency (is the tip of the arrow being pulled back in relation to the rest the same amount every time)

2. Any creep or flinch on release.

3. Action of the bow on release (torque, flailing, etc)

You are NOT watching the arrow fly towards the target - that's peaking 

Since a lot of people don't get the "feeling" thing alone, I stopped teaching blank bale shooting, unless it's done under the supervision of a pair of experienced eyes. Too many times, what feels right, ain't. This exercise while probably not perfect, does go a long way to help a solo shooter "see" what he's doing in real time.

I've also found that when this exercise is understood, it only take a few shots to correct a lot of form problems. Somehow, they just seem to disappear - go figure ... :darkbeer:

Viper1 out.


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## Perceval

Hello , 

I received this morning my brand new black anodized Berbardini Mamba (19" ) riser ....
I mounted in a rush a pair of Win&Win Everest pro (70"/44#) limbs , adjusted roughly BH and tiller and took 5 way overspinned arrows ( heritage 350 650 grains EFOC with 5" offset shield feathers ) and went to my backyard to try out the NFAA thing ....

I've drawn a NFAA 40cms target to size because they are not currently available here , first round 288 , second 300 .....Ok at only ten yards shooting off the shelf and " instinctive " ( generaly speaking ) :darkbeer:
I couldn't be more happy with this riser  , flemish string has stretched and BH decreased by 1/2" , arrows flight was not good and the whole thing is not properly set but i think this riser will bring me to the next step , my goal is to reach 240 at 20yards before the end of summer . 

Archery is so cool , so fun , best sport ever invented by humans since 13.000 years ago ! :RockOn: ....best regards to all fellow archers over the world :cheers:

An happy Archer


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## 57Loader

Perceval said:


> Hello ,
> 
> I received this morning my brand new black anodized Berbardini Mamba (19" ) riser ....
> I mounted in a rush a pair of Win&Win Everest pro (70"/44#) limbs , adjusted roughly BH and tiller and took 5 way overspinned arrows ( heritage 350 650 grains EFOC with 5" offset shield feathers ) and went to my backyard to try out the NFAA thing ....
> 
> I've drawn a NFAA 40cms target to size because they are not currently available here , first round 288 , second 300 .....Ok at only ten yards shooting off the shelf and " instinctive " ( generaly speaking ) :darkbeer:
> I couldn't be more happy with this riser  , flemish string has stretched and BH decreased by 1/2" , arrows flight was not good and the whole thing is not properly set but i think this riser will bring me to the next step , my goal is to reach 240 at 20yards before the end of summer .
> 
> Archery is so cool , so fun , best sport ever invented by humans since 13.000 years ago ! :RockOn: ....best regards to all fellow archers over the world :cheers:
> 
> An happy Archer



Wow. That's good.


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## Perceval

57Loader said:


> Wow. That's good.


Thanks but i've trained all winter in my basement at 10 meters shooting my Oly instinctive so i turn out to be pretty good between 8-12 meters and 10 yards take out roughly 1 meter more ( 90cms ) ....
Now i've tried a round at 15 yards after having set up the bow and shooting better arrows for this set up ( CE HE 250 , 465grains ) .....well , the magical thing is definately gone : 220 points ...the bow is still fine and i love it a lot , perfect for my taste ( heavy riser with trad recurve feeling ) but I'll have to train and train again like the rest of us to reach my goals ....training is a pleasure so i'm happy


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## centershot

It's been a while since I shot a NFAA 300 round, so last night I off to the range I went. I sold my Dorado a few weeks back so I was back to the old Howatt Cavalier 26# bow and some full length ICS Bowhunter shafts with 175gr tips. Slow she is, but they shot pretty good for being way overspined. Anyway I ended up shooting a 246 w/ 9X's. Just a couple point off my average from earlier in the year and without a couple of 'operater errors' in the 2 ring, the score would have been right in the low 250's. It was nice to get back to a light bow and shoot a round - really enjoyed it.


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## ArtV

To be competitive at the NFAA Nationals in Traditional Class you need to be shooting at the 265 to 280 level. I won the sectionals a few years back with a 265 and 275 but would have only placed 3d at the Nationals with these scores.
Art


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## kegan

*Got some scores*

Well, finally got my bow finished up (72# and stores more energy than the older ones, so it actually feels like 72# through the _whole _draw for once).

First score the day after I finished the bow: 198. Yesterday, 212. I haven't been shooting this heavy for a while and it's pretty obvious:zip:. On the bright side, I'm keeping it to about what I was shooting before, and managed several 17-18 ends (I've only four arrows). My next couple bows should be a a little lighter, and I'm back to practicing daily again. 

Still looking to get to that 240 goal


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## buckrunt

just wondering, Has anyone shot a 900 round. 40, 50, 60 yards.
Had a lot of fun shooting one this weekend. didn't do bad at 40yds, but  60 yds was really tuff. Any way shot a 483 with a longbow.


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## Viper1

buck -

Yeah, but we used to call them Double American rounds (Scored 9, 7, 5, 3, 1). Great match. 

Seriously, haven't shot one in a while, but gonna try to organize one this year. 

Viper1 out.


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## barebowguy

Here in California we have a state tournament using the 900 round every year, I shot a 805 with my recurve last year I think that is going to be tough to beat this year.


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## buckrunt

WOW. 805
I have a long way to go to reach that.


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## rsarns

805 is a great score Alan... The WSAA state record is 808, so that shows how really well you did! I didn't get to shoot the WSAA target shoot this year, even if I had I'd have been the only one there in the Senior Trad division... sucks. Only 1 shooter in the adult male trad division. The Outdoor Nationals aren't looking much better with only a few signed up in adult male and Senior male classes.


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## centershot

252 7X last night. That old 26# bow is not forgiving of a less than perfect release............


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## Sanford

rsarns said:


> 805 is a great score Alan... The WSAA state record is 808, so that shows how really well you did! I didn't get to shoot the WSAA target shoot this year, even if I had I'd have been the only one there in the Senior Trad division... sucks. Only 1 shooter in the adult male trad division. The Outdoor Nationals aren't looking much better with only a few signed up in adult male and Senior male classes.


Check your State and local Senior Games coming up. They all shoot that Round. I attended our State games last year as a spectator (needed one month to qualify to shoot as 50-year senior) and there were more Trad shooters than aided recurves. Many age brackets, though.

Houston is hosting the Senior Olympics in 2011, with the 900 Round being the archery division game. Being that I live in the region, rules state that I wouldn't have to qualify at the regional or state level to shoot there, but I still plan to shoot what I can first.

I think your State shoot just happened: http://www.pugetsoundgames.com/ArcheryInfo.htm


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## Robot-guy

I thought I would chime in here. Yup, not many traditional shooters up here in Washington. I shot a 656 for the 900 round at the Washington games last week. My goal is the beat Mr. Croft's 808 score. He is the one that made the bow I shoot now. Nice bow.

As for the indoor rounds, I typically shoot in the 240s.

I wish the NAA and NFAA would come to agreement on the anchor point rule. I am a gap shooter. Using a fixed anchor point results in a lot of gapping for the longer field and FITA (yes, I shoot the 90 meter distances) ranges. I would like to string walk, but 95% of the tournaments in Washington follow the NFAA rules which prohibit string walking. So I haven't developed that skill. 

Pete


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## Robot-guy

Mr. Viper,

I like your Watch The Arrow Exercise description. I gave up on blank bailing (is the the proper way to spell the verb tense of blank bale?) a couple years ago. I find it more detrimental than help full. If you are shooting with bad form, and it feels good, then you develop the habit of bad form. I exclusively use 45 yards for my shooting (mainly it is my point on distance), but bad form means missing the target. 

I know I have a big creeping problem in my shooting, and I have the tendency of over gripping the bow. I have been trying to figure out how to self diagnose this problem, and this new technique sounds promising. Now back to the garage for some blank bailing (or is that baling).

Pete


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## Viper1

Pete - 

My pleasure. I had the same problem with blank bale shooting, without someone watching (and correcting) you're working on feeling alone and that can play you wrong. The other problem was that without quantifiable feed back, BBing got really boring, really quickly! 

BBing can and does work for a lot of folks, I just think it's a little risky for new shooters. 

Viper1 out.


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## DwayneR

centershot said:


> 252 7X last night. That old 26# bow is not forgiving of a less than perfect release............


 And NOW you know WHY both Viper and I say start out with a lower pound bow and LEARN how to shoot.

The lighter bows are the HARDEST to learn the release on. Because any kind of Plucking, creeping, and other Form problems show up extremely well with the lower pound bows.

With the skills learned on the lighter bows, they will easily transform to the hunting bows.

Dwayne


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## Sasquatch74

Shot my first round ever last night. Shot a 246 at 15yds. I was pretty pleased, but felt I definitely could have scored higher. I'm going to step back to 20 yds tonight and see what happens.


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## bearauto11

Some of you guys sure seem to know how to shoot.
I've been waiting to get a 200 before posting here. I've been averaging a little above 180 and today I shot a 207 (Kinda. I cheated a little. In my third end I shot three arrows and two of them were zeros, so I walked up, pulled them out and started the end again.) There weren't any other zeros though and I had some ends that I was pretty proud of for my shooting. 
The wife was out the other day watching and I asked her to watch for some things. It was amazing the things I thought were right and weren't. I think it helped a lot.
Centershot (I think I remember you saying you gap shoot) and other gap shooters, When you aim, are you looking at the gap between the spot and your reference point? Or do you pick a spot on the target butt and put your reference point on that?
Thanks,
--Tom


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## centershot

When I aim, I pre-aim, for 20 yards the point of my arrow is just above the bulls eye, Then I draw back, the arrow is usually about 16" below the bulls eye - I check it, then move my focus to the center of the bulls eye and try to execute the shot. For longer distances I start with the point higher on the target and draw into my gap, make minor adjustments and release. To find your gaps, aim point on at a given distance and see where your arrow lands. Then it is just a matter of holding that much low and you should be in the bulls eye. Hope that helps.

Your on your way, maybe move up to 10 yards until the 240 mark is broken regularly then scoot back to 15, then 20. You'll get it.


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## bearauto11

Thanks Centershot,
I've got my gaps pretty well figured out. I was more interested in your explanation of how you aim the point. I judge the distance down from the spot and hold the point there, but it seems that if I can find something on the target butt that is the right gap, aiming my point at that is more accurate. The problem for me (I think) is that I am mostly using this target to get my form and aiming more consistent to do things like field and 3D shoots. I try to keep judging the gap so I can carry it over to other events.
--Tom


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## centershot

If you know your max gap, then that is the most you could possibly miss by.......in theory. Mine is 16" at 20 yards, 14" @ 15, 12" @ 10, 6" @ 5 - 12" @ 25, 4" @ 30 and Point on at about 32, 8" @ 35 and back to 16" @ 40. If I can guess 20, then see if the target is more or less, my gap gets smaller. A little light under the belly holds on most 3D's. If I do my part then the arrow is in the 8 or better. Over about 35 yards and it gets pretty iffy for me.


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## bearauto11

Yeah. Shooting over my point on has been pretty dicey for me. I've been using the markings on my arrow to pick a point above the target to put my point on. 
Shot a 220 yesterday morning. We'll see if I'm on a roll or just got lucky a couple of times.
--Tom


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## CEM

Went out and shot today. Scored a 198, 217, and 225  All from 20 yards. The 217 was my shortest lived personal best yet.


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## kegan

Been shooting some more. Lingering around 190-210. Time for some lighter tackle for sure! Luckily I have a few lighter ones I hope to finish out.


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## rsarns

barebowguy said:


> Here in California we have a state tournament using the 900 round every year, I shot a 805 with my recurve last year I think that is going to be tough to beat this year.


Congrats on your win at Darrington in the Nationals! Some outstanding shooting there also! 

I shot in the Senior division and got schooled by Bobby Graham, couldn't have asked for a better guy though, learned a lot. Kudos to him also for some great shooting.


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## young hunter

I just shot a score for the first time in a couple months and I demolished my old PB by 40 points!!! I shot a 192 which I would consider pretty good since ive only been shooting trad for a little less than a year


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## Robot-guy

Alan,

Nice shooting at Darrington. I was planning to be there again this year, but I got sacked at my old job, after 10 years, a few months ago, and I don't have any vacation at my new one yet. My ego was swelling my head thinking I was a good shot. But after seeing your scores, the ego exploded. Now all I need to do is find a way to add about 60 points to each round to get to your level. I am looking forward to meeting you some time in the future. Again, nice shooting.

Pete


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## barebowguy

rsarns,robot-guy,
thanks guys 
Darrington was a lot of fun, I just love shooting paper six days of nothing but shooting targets it dosent get much better than that.


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## centershot

Well I got tired of shooting my heavier hunting bow and decided to give the new Martin X-200 30#'er some work. Shot a 252. Felt pretty good for only the second time I've shot it, still need to do some tuning as it is porpoising pretty bad. That and a couple brain farts cost me a few points or I could have given 260 a run...........next time!


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## 57Loader

My average is up to 249 from 10 yards. Still pretty far away from 200 from any farther than that.

I put on a new string today and I think the bow is a lot faster. My first few shots were pretty high compared to the others and I think my nock point is exactly the same.

I'm really working on my anchor point. Because I started with a bow that was too heavy and have not bought one lighter yet I was having a hard time holding an anchor without shaking. Now that I'm getting used to the draw weight and can shoot many rounds without getting tired or sore fingers I can focus on my anchor point.

When my anchor feels like I hit the right spot that arrow goes in the white every time.

I'm thinking about buying a Samick Sage to practice with with 40# limbs.


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## centershot

Nothing like a light drawing bow to work on form and shoot spots with. This 30# bow I picked up is nearly the perfect draw weight for me. It lets me control the shot, not the bow.


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## buckrunt

Shot a 300 rd. for the first time since state....237. need to practice shooting slower, have a hard time at shoots with the slow pace.


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## centershot

Shot a 250 and 260 last night. I agree the slow pace at shoots makes for a different game. It's hard to practice for and tough to keep your focus for that long. I usually end up talking about hunting and screw up my focus for a shot or two and end up shooting a few points lower than normal.......oh well, sure beats staying home doing 'honey do's'!


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## Sanford

centershot said:


> Shot a 250 and 260 last night. I agree the slow pace at shoots makes for a different game. It's hard to practice for and tough to keep your focus for that long. I usually end up talking about hunting and screw up my focus for a shot or two and end up shooting a few points lower than normal.......oh well, sure beats staying home doing 'honey do's'!


With our indoor season coming on, I have been wanting to try a "real" score test, i.e., sit a few minutes between rounds, take more than a few to shoot, etc. Ain't gonna happen this time of year! Everyone and their brother(s) are sighting bows, buying bows, and talking it up - ME INCLUDED! I start a round with great concentration but never finish half of it without being in it and a conversation at the same time. I'll just consider the sanctioned shoots my "real" practice time.


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## Boberau

So, for me to translate to whitetail hunting, the 3 ring is 9.44" and that would mean one should shoot consistantly better than 180 with nothing out of the 3 ring .... if you want to be an excellent whitetail slayer.... Si?


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## centershot

Yep, 3's or better will get you to 180+, averaging 4's (6 1/4" diameter) gets you to 240, averaging 5's is well a 300 and I have not heard of anyone ever doing it with traditional or barebow recurve gear. Most consider 240+ decent shooting. Sounds easy enough, doesn't it. Get yourself some targets and give it a try. Lots of fun.


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## 57Loader

Yes, it's lots of fun. I wish I could shoot 20 yards at my house. Shot my PB today from 10 yards. A 270 that brought my 10 yard average to 254. I think I should be able to shoot in the low 200's from 20 but I haven't been able to try for over a month.


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## bearauto11

I made an Excel spreadsheet for scorekeeping the 300 round. Is there any way I can post this for other people to use? Is anyone interested? I suppose I could email it if it can't be posted. Let me know.
Thanks,
--Tom


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## CEM

Went out and shot a 206 and 219 today. My average has kinda flattened out at 210 for a month or so now. Broke the 220 mark a few times, 230 once. Not getting better as fast as I used to.

I set 240 as a six month goal. Those of you who can bust 240, how long did it take? Is six months unrealistic? Thanks.

-Chris,


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## Viper1

Chris -

I *"think"* it took me about a year AFTER I joined a club and got some decent training, but that was almost 40 years ago (ouch). I'm also a slow learner and made most of the same mistakes we see going on here today. Experience is a wonderful and nasty teacher, lol 

That however, has little bearing on what you're doing or how long it's going to take YOU - like they say, enjoy the ride! 

Viper1 out.


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## centershot

I shot about 15 rounds before I started averaging 240. I'm averaging around 250 now and have 40 or so scored rounds. Shot a 261 last night, that helps bump up my average.


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## CEM

Thanks for the feedback guys. 

-Chris,


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## barebowguy

the wife and I shoot in the backyard when we don't have time to get to the range, it is only 13 yards but great for working on form. I just went 3 days, shooting about 75 arrows each day and only missed the 5 once.


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## rsarns

Have only been shooting broadheads for the last week or so, practice for hunting season! I'll start tuning the new PSE X-appeal when I get back from my elk hunt in a couple of weeks. Then it will be time to get ready for indoor....


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## jcs-bowhunter

I ordered some NFAA spot targets today so I can start posting results with you guys. Been focused on 3Ds over the spring and summer and want to use this as a weekly "reality check" and practice session through out the hunting season. Stay tuned...


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## jcs-bowhunter

Shot my first spot round in about 12-13 years this afternoon. Did not want to go outside in the 25-30mph gusts so I shot inside my basement at 15 yards. Scored 91, 91 & 87 for a total of 269. Shot the first 40 arrows without a "3" then had 4 of them in the last game (D'OH!). Started getting a little fatigue from my 40# Dorado (what a wimp!). I assume my score will drop dramatically once I get 20 yards but I'm darn happy with this as a starting point.


----------



## centershot

Good shooting! I don't think your scores will be much lower, a good shot is a good shot. Fun stuff.


----------



## Canuck71

*Finally tried it!!*

I've really enjoyed reading this thread to see all the tips and advice about shooting.

I finally tried my hand at the 300 round - I only have 4 shootable arrows left due to a few stumps that turned out to be a little soft and in front of very hard rocks 

Anyhow, I adjusted the shoot to 15 ends of 4 shots - it will give me a rough idea anyhow. My arrows are a bit over-spined, but I managed a 219. I was also shooting outdoors, and the sun was starting to set, so the light changed a bit as I shot.

Yes, I know it's not a "perfect" round - re: scoring method, plus some interruptions by the wife..., but It's a start. I have to say, it was really fun. I'm going to try to do a proper round next (new arrows will be here Tuesday!) and see if I can do better.

As a hunter, I don't fret much over scores and targets, but it's a good way to keep trying to get better and compete against yourself. I was very happy to see most of my shots within the 4 ring - plenty good to put a deer in the freezer in a month's time!

BTW, for those interested, I'm shooting a Samick sage 40# recurve with Easton Aluminum 500's and 125g heads. (yes, I know they are too heavy!)


----------



## Viper1

Gents -



Canuck71 said:


> ... but it's a good way to keep trying to get better and compete against yourself.


*
THAT'S THE POINT*

Canuck - sorry if I took that too much out of context. 

Viper1 out


----------



## Canuck71

*No Worries*



Viper1 said:


> Gents -
> 
> 
> *
> THAT'S THE POINT*
> 
> Canuck - sorry if I took that too much out of context.
> 
> Viper1 out


No Problem, Viper. I used to think archery in general was something I would NEVER like - too much fussing around with equipment and missing the target. Boy, was I wrong. The more I learn, the more I shoot, and the more I shoot, the more I want to learn 

I bought my recurve about 3 months ago, and I'm amazed at how much fun I've had, and how much better my shooting has improved with regular practice. Many thanks for your helpful advice.

Canuck


----------



## centershot

Good for you Canuck! 219 is darn good shooting. There are a lot of folks that make shooting a score into way too much. It's just a good way to keep track of your own progress and compare your score with others - apples to apples. That's it, nothing to be afraid of, you don't even have to tell anyone your score. I'd like to encourage everyone to give it a try. It's fun, good practice and certainly beats yard work!


----------



## Canuck71

centershot said:


> Good for you Canuck! 219 is darn good shooting. There are a lot of folks that make shooting a score into way too much. It's just a good way to keep track of your own progress and compare your score with others - apples to apples. That's it, nothing to be afraid of, you don't even have to tell anyone your score. I'd like to encourage everyone to give it a try. It's fun, good practice and certainly beats yard work!


Centershot,

It's not a "true" 300 round, but it at least gives me something to go by. I just got my new arrows, (proper spine for this bow) so I'm excited to give them a try and see if there is much difference in the way they shoot compared to the old ones. 

This week it's time to spin on some broad heads and get the final tuning done before October rolls around...


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

Shot my 1st 20 yard NFAA round this afternoon. I cannot watch the Detroit Lions for a full 3 hours without going insane.

79+81+87=247

Very happy with that. Only had one "2".


----------



## centershot

258 and not happy.........ugh, choked on the last end and shot a "2". Little lapse of focus and it bit me.


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

centershot said:


> 258 and not happy.........ugh, choked on the last end and shot a "2". Little lapse of focus and it bit me.


good shooting! :thumbs_up


----------



## centershot

Shot a couple more rounds last night, first was a 239 - first round under 240 in a long time, ouch. I was switching between 2 bows and trying out a few things so I probably should not have even been scoring, but that's what is was. The second round was with my standard setup, no testing and scored a 257, closer to average. Should we start a new thread for this fall's scores or just keep adding to this one?


----------



## CEM

I still can't bust 240 once. My best is a 231 and I've shot a couple 230s. Averaging 217 over the last 10 games.

I say stick with the same thread unless there is some page limit.

-Chris,


----------



## DwayneR

centershot said:


> 258 and not happy.........ugh, choked on the last end and shot a "2". Little lapse of focus and it bit me.


Don't fret over it Centershot. . .About 10 years ago when I was competing. . . I was in running for 3rd in the nation. . . Until the very last frame. . .#120. . . I shot. . .choked, and miss the whole blasted target, knocking me to 8th. Ok. . .so I had 119 hits out of 120. . . Yeah I was mad at myself, but by golly I was laughing at the same time. 

Dwayne


----------



## centershot

I don't get too worried about it........It's all for fun. It is crazy how pressure mounts even when just shooting for your own personal best. Just need to focus harder, trust the shot and make it count!


----------



## kegan

Tried the Timer Wolf out on an target. Got a 215. Higher than normal, but this bow and I aren't clicking. Which makes me hopeful. I think a Gray Wolf Hybrid might do me a little better- I'm grouping alot better with the 75# one I'm playing with, and I think a 65# might be a sweetheart


----------



## rsarns

dialing in my new PSE X-Appeal with 32# X-pression limbs.... shot a 235 with it yesterday using my old 500 spine carbons that weigh 400 grains. Just got some 2712's with 4" feathers and 300 gr points to try now. Hoping the heavier arrows might give me a closer point on at 20 yards.... Hoping I can get my scores up to the 250's consistently before indoor season starts. Big difference shooting 32#'s compared to the 60#'s from last year...... really shows all the flaws.


----------



## rsarns

2nd 300 round with the new bow... shot a 247 11X..... the 2712's got my point on a lot closer, aiming at the line between the 2/3 ring now. Beats aiming below the whole target. Will try adjusting the limbs down and see if I can get the point on closer. Very happy with the new bow. 

I am going to put limbsavers on both sets of limbs, what affect will this have on the bow? I know it will quiet it quite a bit, but performance wise?


----------



## BigCnyn

277 14x hoyt oasis riser, [email protected] axis skinny shafts 
pulled the bars off, bb weight


----------



## DwayneR

Hello rsarns,

The limb savers will make little to no difference on your cast. cranking down your limbs will make a big difference. You are right at that stage where everything is coming together for you. Try 5 inch feathers instead of 4inch. You are so correct when you say the lighter bow shows all of your flaws. When a person learns to shoot a lighter bow (like you are doing), when you go back to your hunting bow (With the same FORM of COURSE!!!), your accuracy will improve.

Are you shooting full length 2712's? If not you should try it.

Dwayne


----------



## centershot

Sounds like your picking up where you left off last spring BigCnyn - Great shooting. I've broken into the 260's a few times, but just barely - average is in the mid 250's w/10X. We're just getting things started up at MVB so hopefully I'll get shooting more indoors and raise that average a bit. Hope to see you at some shoots. What's with the skinny shafts, did you do some field or FITA shoots this summer?


----------



## bearauto11

OK. I have to know. First, where do you find 2712 arrows? Second, where do you get a 300 grain point? Third, does that 300 grain point put the 2712 arrow into the spine range of your bow, or are you doing something else to get it to shoot right? 
I'm interested in seeing if I can get my point closer to the target. So, this makes me very curious.
Thanks,
--Tom


----------



## barebowguy

I orderd my 300 grain tips from Lancaster archery and my 2712 arrows from my local archery shop although Lancaster has plenty of those also. I cannot get them to tune perfectly but they are pretty close.


----------



## rsarns

barebowguy said:


> I orderd my 300 grain tips from Lancaster archery and my 2712 arrows from my local archery shop although Lancaster has plenty of those also. I cannot get them to tune perfectly but they are pretty close.


Ditto.... if your local shop doesn't carry or can't get them you can order 2712's from lancaster also.... I am shooting the X7 Eclipse... they tune close but not perfect. closest I have come to getting pointon for indoor so far.


----------



## bearauto11

Thanks. I may have to try that when I have a few extra bucks. Are your points 300 grains, or are you using weight modules also?
--Tom


----------



## bearauto11

Shot a 300 round with my Dad who came out for a visit from upstate New York. He got us started on this addicting track a few months ago.
I shot under my average, but it sure was fun shooting with Dad.
--Tom


----------



## rsarns

they are 300 gr ...


----------



## bearauto11

I finally found them. They're one piece points. I was looking for screw ins. Thanks for the info. Could you do the same thing with like a 2512? Would it not work as well because it isn't as heavy?
Thanks,
--Tom


----------



## rsarns

bearauto11 said:


> I finally found them. They're one piece points. I was looking for screw ins. Thanks for the info. Could you do the same thing with like a 2512? Would it not work as well because it isn't as heavy?
> Thanks,
> --Tom




I am sure you could, I went with the 2712
s for the largest legal diameter, plus I think they weigh a little more.


----------



## bearauto11

Oh, Diameter. Didn't think of that. Thanks for the info.


----------



## BigCnyn

I brought out the 2413s,,
284 22 x


----------



## centershot

Very nice BigCnyn, any luck on the furry targets this fall?


----------



## BigCnyn

not with my bow,,,
kids are keeping me real busy,,, shooting after dark in my shop


----------



## recurvist22

shot my first 300 round about a week ago, been shooting a little off and on in the backyard while getting equipment together. first was a 241 7x at 20yrds, shot the next day and shot a 288 with 7x at 20 yrds, just added a clicker today to see if it helps, and now i know i've got a long way to go


----------



## centershot

288 is world class if your shooting Trad or Barebow.....you dont have to far to go. Excellent Shooting.


----------



## bearauto11

I've been in a slump lately, but shot a 217 and followed it up after a couple of days with a 218. That's about where my average has been lately, so it felt pretty good.
--Tom


----------



## DwayneR

A 288 barebow is a GUARANTEE 1st in the nation, and probably 1st in the world.

Highest score barebow is 291 if I remember correctly.


----------



## rsarns

Was that 288 with NFAA legal trad or using a sight? If barebow recurve that is some awesome shooting... hell either way that is some great shooting. If "Trad" then you are at the top right now!


----------



## Leafwalker

I'm on your heels Tom!

216 at my last game. No 1's this time but I did have a sloppy release near the end and I missed the target... :mg:


----------



## Leafwalker

By the way, do most people have a target bow they're using or is it their hunting bow?

I've been using my hunting bow, a Hoyt Excel riser with 40# camo Tradtech limbs. They're 44# @ my draw length.


----------



## bearauto11

Leafwalker said:


> I'm on your heels Tom!
> 
> 216 at my last game. No 1's this time but I did have a sloppy release near the end and I missed the target... :mg:


Oooohhhh! I hate missing the target. I'm shooting my 58" 40#@28" recurve. It's not my hunting one (I don't hunt right now), but it is the bow I have. I'm feeling pretty good with those scores right now.
--Tom


----------



## Leafwalker

I'd be happy if I could average a 218, too! I was really happy with the 216.


----------



## DwayneR

You guys and gales keep it up. . .

You should be quite proud of your 216, 218, and other scores.

1. You are working on bettering yourselves.
2. You are realizing what it takes to achieve a score, and not just hitting a stump or a target.
3. Your hunting abilities will greatly improve, because you *know* what you can and cannot do ethically.
4. Mentally you are improving as well as physically. 

I can only say, I am very glad to see so many people working on the 300 round challenge. And better yet, I can say I am also extremely happy to see so many honest people with their scores.

It ain't easy to shoot 60 arrows and score in the 200's. It surely ain't easy to shoot 60 arrows and score in the 240's!. And when you start shooting in the 250's and 260's, things *really* get tough.

Anyhow, congratulations all of you, for doing such a good job.

Dwayne


----------



## Bowsage

My NFAA targets just arrived and would like to know what a decent score would be at 15 yds. and when should I move to twenty? Would like to be deadly up to 25 yds.being strictly a bowhunter. Thanks for your comments.


----------



## Viper1

Bow - 

This is how the NFAA rated it for 20 yds. 

Archer 0 –189 (D – class)
Bowman 190 – 209 (C – class)
Expert B 210 – 249 (B – class) 
Expert A 250 – 279 (A – class)
Expert AA 280 – 300 (AA – class)

For 15 yds, add 20 points to each (except AA, of course)

Viper1 out


----------



## bearauto11

Leafwalker said:


> I'd be happy if I could average a 218, too! I was really happy with the 216.


I think I need to clarify a little here. I didn't mean to exaggerate, but I think I did. When I am shooting good, I figure I should get between 210 and 220. But, often times I am not shooting well and shoot lower than that. So, my average is actually probably lower than that. 
Every once in a while I get lucky. As you can see by my next story.
--Tom


----------



## bearauto11

I got lucky tonight and scored a best ever by a lot. I don't know if it counts though. You guys will have to let me know.

I was shooting and was just about finished with the first game (I think my terminology is right: an end is 5 arrows, a game is 4 ends, and a round is 3 games. Let me know if I'm wrong.)
My wife shouts down, "Go pick up the kids at their friends house." I finished the game with a 77 (I was feeling pretty good), and went to pick up the kids.
When I got home, I continued shooting. I was almost done with the second game and one of the boys shouts, "Dinner time." (My wonderful wife cooks dinner for me.) I finished the game and got a 78. I said to myself, "Self, that is sweet!" and went up to dinner. 
After dinner, I went back down and shot 4 more ends for the last game score of 79 and got a final score of 234!
I'm pretty jacked up about it, but I think alot of it may have been the resting between games. I'm still pretty excited.
--Tom


----------



## Viper1

Tom -

The name of the game is to keep improving - sounds like you've succeeded. 

Just for the record though, taking a break between games does make it easier (even if it's kids or dinner) ... :darkbeer:

Congrats!!!

Viper1 out.


----------



## bearauto11

Thanks Viper,
I know a big part of the game is shooting 60 arrows straight and I was able to cheat a little by taking breaks. That's why I say it probably doesn't count, but I was feeling pretty good while shooting. It's days like these where I think I am pulling it together. Tomorrow, when I try again with 60 straight, I'll probably be trying to figure out how come I can't get my act together.
I've only shot this in my backyard. It makes me wonder how I would do standing next to another guy in a real competition (I'd probably psych myself completely out).
--Tom


----------



## Sanford

bearauto,

There is a meter to the game that's hard to replicate in practice. I find that my competition scores are better because of it. At the shoots, there is a quiet in the room and no interruptions. There is time to shoot 5 arrows without rush. There is wait time after shooting your round for the rest of the shooting line to retire. There is time to sit down while the next line of shooters does the same. That meter of shooting and resting is beneficial.

At practice, I always find that shooting 60 arrows straight, or in some uneven or random order of rounds, usually way too fast, along with the constant interruption from outside your zone, is much different. If I had the place to myself and would take long breaks between rounds, or groups of rounds, my score would be different too.


----------



## recurvist22

yes, the 288 was shooting with an olympic style rig, sight included


----------



## centershot

Hunting is over for me, so time to get back to some paper punching! Shot a 252 on my lunch break today - shot this 25 on the very last end. Anybody else shooting indoors?


----------



## Viper1

Center -

Nice grouping! The paper doesn't lie (and that means all the holes, not just the five arrows in the picture).

Viper1 out.


----------



## centershot

Thanks Viper - I hung one out there in the 2 ring and a few 3's to keep the score down and my humility in check. This old Howatt 26# bow does not forgive a bad release! But it is sure is fun to shoot. I think it's about time I order up an Excel. I want the shorter 21" riser (to hunt with also) with some medium limbs, KAP's I think. What weight would I need to have a finished bow in the 29-30# range?


----------



## Dwill

I really wanna get into shooting some NFAA 300 rounds..I think I'm gonna have to buy me some of the target faces, what do you think is the best way to set the target faces to shoot without having to buy one of the actually targets? Could i like stack two block targets on top of each other and tape a face on one of them??


----------



## barebowguy

the cheapest way that works great is fill a cardboard box with old cloths or rags and put the target on the box.


----------



## Dwill

barebowguy said:


> the cheapest way that works great is fill a cardboard box with old cloths or rags and put the target on the box.


Thanks


----------



## WindWalker

center:

What type of string nocks you using on the recurve?


----------



## centershot

It's just a tied on nock set - Granny knot over, Granny knot under, for about 6 or 7 knots. 
WW, good to see you par-oozing these target threads. We are trying to start up a little informal league for something to do. Your invited to come play. Maybe even get a animal target round or Flint round going, it's all good as long as were shooting and getting better.


----------



## rsarns

SHot my 1st round in a few weeks today, hurt my left shoulder (torn muscle) and boy am I rusty. Even at 32#'s even though its the bow shoulder it still is slightly painful. So there are my excuses out of the way... shot a 223 with 12X... lots of x's for such a low score! That tells you how many I let get away. I can tell its going to take a bit to get back to where I was before I hurt the shoulder. Skipping the league starting tonight and hoepfully will be ok next week to shoot in it. Now the other part. Didn't change anything but my point on seems to have dropped 3 inches.... I am now aiming at the bottom of the paper to hit the X.... Hate not being able to get the point on closer, and I have my limbs backed out all the way. Also, am shooting 2712's at 30", 4" feathers and 300 grain glue ins.. So not sure I can get much heavier.


----------



## rsarns

1 point better today but 4 less X's... more consistent shooting though. Shoulder still getting better, biggest issue is holding the bow steady as I like to hold a bit on target before the release. Caught myself almost snap shooting yesterday. I'd get to my anchor, double check it... and before my next step in my porcess the arrow was off and on its way. Today I seemed to have better control through my shot process on most of the shots. Long ways to go to be where I want to be for the start of indoor season. Of course not shooting for awhile didn't help. I'll be back to shooting daily now.


----------



## centershot

Kind of proud of this target - shot a 252 for my league score, then shot another game for a personal best 269 10X. 2 full rounds and a couple warm up ends (140 shots) without a 2!


----------



## Sanford

Center,

That's a good looking target. Yes, a few of those 2's and 1's are score killers, even when all other arrows are near perfect. Now, 2 games and not one score killing flier. That's great!


----------



## kegan

Centershot, I know I've said this before but your shooting is INSPIRING! Everytime you post it makes me want to get off my butt and go shoot


----------



## centershot

Thanks Kegan, You are just a 30# bow away from 240+ yourself.


----------



## kegan

centershot said:


> Thanks Kegan, You are just a 30# bow away from 240+ yourself.


Thanks Center. I've got a lighter couple of bows in the works, just need the glue to get 'em done.


----------



## bearauto11

Holy cow! That's spectacular, CS!
--Tom


----------



## bearauto11

I offered it before and didn't get any takers. With the new league, I'll offer it again if anyone is interested. I have an Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet that can be printed to use for a scorecard (four per page). Let me know if you would like me to email it to you.
--Tom


----------



## centershot

257 last night, forgot to count x's. I did video a few ends - I am shooting way too fast. What I thought was a second or two at full draw looks like I hardly stop on camera. Something to work on. Tom, I'd like a copy of your scorecard - [email protected] Thanks.


----------



## bearauto11

Center,
I sent you another email. I think I saved it as an older version.
--Tom


----------



## rsarns

Has anyone triied the NFAA MultiColor (Vegas).... shot that in league last night.... not going to mention that score. I will say I found it harder to focus on the yellow vice the white of the blueface target.


----------



## Viper1

Ren -

For bare bow, I find that the colors tend to blend into each other and make focusing harder (never really liked that target for indoor work). With a slight bow, the difference isn't as severe, but I use a large aperture. Some folks notice that they need to make slight sight adjustments when switching from the blue to the "fita" 4-color face. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## rsarns

Viper,
Well I made the jump and put a shibuya ultima RC carbon sight and stabs on my bow... just to play with this year. Tomorrow I'll see if that makes a difference in focusing on the FITA face. Shhh just don't tell all the trad guys... LOL I will shoot both "barebow trad" and FSLR/L classes for indoor this year. FIgure it can only make me a better archer. This is on my PSE X-Appeal 25" riser, and long 32# limbs which I have backed out to 30#. Only issue I see from playing with it tonight is I will need to get past the recent shoulder injury (bow shoulder) to shoot a complete round with the extra weight of the stabs.


----------



## Viper1

Ren -

Don't know your age or visual acuity, but for me being slightly visually challenged :shocked: I find that a large aperture (like 1/2") ID and keeping the sight extension relatively close to the riser allows me to either center _the target_ in the aperture and/or frame the aperture with the target boarder. That helps when changing faces. Funny, even my younger students seem to find that it helps as well. I keep seeing folks using those tiny apertures that come with sights and can't imagine how they see through those things ...

Viper1 out.


----------



## rsarns

VIper,
55 and havce needed reading glasses for years now. DIstance vision is still ok. I will pick up a larger aperture and give it a try also, thanks!


----------



## Viper1

Ren -

I get mine at Lowes ... 








Viper1 out.


----------



## centershot

Question: When switching between barebow and sights do you change your anchor?


----------



## Viper1

Center -

Yes. I use a std side-of-face anchor for bare bow and switch to under-the-chin for Oly/FITA stuff. That being said, if you recall, my new Oly shooters start bare bow and retain the side of face anchor when they start using sights until their form has stabilized. (The under-the-chin stuff just doesn't provide the same lock-up the side-of-face does.) 

Viper1 out.


----------



## centershot

Or the sight clearance - sighting 3 under w/ a middle finger at the corner of the mouth does not leave much room for the arrow to pass by.


----------



## Sanford

centershot said:


> Question: When switching between barebow and sights do you change your anchor?


I don't require it and used to think I could not. I have always stayed with my under-chin when switching back to barebow. Recently, and for the umpteenth time, I have modified it back to the jawbone, index finger in corner of mouth, and string touch on nose. I kept it up this time. I like the confidence factor of better having my arrow in my vision for indoor 20 yard. I also like under the chin and having my arrow better in sight when in the field. That's how I'm shooting the quasi-league here now. Side of face. I want to see if my average of score will improve.

Another test will be indoor TFAA shoots this winter and spring. I plan to shoot one day my usual FSL-Recurve (sights, stabs, and my under chin anchor) and the next day Trad (side of face anchor). I hope to be completely ambidextrous, opening up more possibilities.


----------



## Viper1

Center -



centershot said:


> Or the sight clearance - sighting 3 under w/ a middle finger at the corner of the mouth does not leave much room for the arrow to pass by.


Yup, that's the whole reason fore the under the chin stuff. 

Viper1 out.


----------



## centershot

Help, I'm shooting too fast. I need some good exercises to help me slow down......... although I'm not sure why I need to slow down as I seem to shoot better at a quicker pace. Thoughts?


----------



## Sanford

centershot said:


> Help, I'm shooting too fast. I need some good exercises to help me slow down......... although I'm not sure why I need to slow down as I seem to shoot better at a quicker pace. Thoughts?


Something that has helped me, although, I'm sure it's not an acceptable practice, is to reach anchor, come off anchor, come back to anchor. IOW, reset. It slowed me down better than counting a hold period.


----------



## centershot

I'll try that, I've tried counting, but it seem I just start thinking about holding instead of aiming. I'm also contemplating shooting every other shot - I do have a bad habit of not letting down, but battle the shot and shoot anyway when I know better. I think my disapline stinks...........always something to work on.


----------



## Sanford

Counting never worked for me. I would just rush through the counting or let off before finishing the count. My mind trained to fire at a certain sight picture, and that is the trigger point no matter what. Sometimes, first impression is not the best time to loose the arrow. Measure twice, shoot once. Letting down off the shot is good - need more of that myself.


----------



## Viper1

Center -

It comes down to whether you are still in control of the shot or not. You've been shooting stickbows and compounds long enough, that if you say you're shooting too fast - it probably has nothing to do with the speed of the shot. 

Shooting quickly and well is fine, but the catch is what happens when you start shooting quickly and things aren't going as planned? Again, it's the difference between being able to shoot quickly and not being able to slow down. 

The counting thing can work for some people and I train a lot of my new shooters to do just that (heck, I do it myself when I'm not using a clicker). The more I can turn them into machines the better off they are - meaning they have an optimal hold time and reproduce in on call. The can also speed it up or slow it down as necessary.

In a match, shoot whatever way gives you the best score. In practice, work out the details 

Viper1 out.


----------



## centershot

Thanks Viper - I'll keep working on it.


----------



## centershot

Shot 263 with the new Hoyt Excel, switched to 3 under with index finger at corner of mouth. Much more comfortable and repeatable instead of the middle finger at the corner of the mouth for me.


----------



## centershot

Found a little something last weekend while shooting. Adjusting the lefts and rights with the string blur is very accurate. Not easy to do, but if you are in control of your shot - give this a try.


----------



## CEM

Took me over a year but I finnaly cracked the 240 mark at 20 yards with a 243 Saturday. 

-CEM

P.S. Yes I know this thread is ancient, but I don't know any archers in real life, so hey...


----------



## Sanford

Hey, that's great! It's good to keep all 300 Round discussion on one page - this is the right thread.


----------



## fladventurers

This really looks like some fun. I can't wait until my bow gets here....
Are these the guidelines?
http://www.sfaa-nj.com/2004_NFAA Rules.pdf

Do I have it correct: I will be using plunger w/stick-on rest, no sights, fingers 3 unders (without string or face walking) would equal Barebow or Traditional classes?
Thanks in advance,
Fladventurers....


----------



## centershot

You got it. I think you would be classified as Trad. - BTW I shot a 267 last night with the new Axiom Limbs and Excell Riser last night. Only the second round I've shot all season. I'm getting excited to punch some more paper this winter.


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

257 at 15 Yards with my quiver attached hunting bow.


----------



## LongbowLogan

I shot a 246 this weekend with my 56'' 56# Morrison ilf setup with a quiver mounted! This was my first time ever trying with my recurve, a little heavy but wasn't horrible. I'm very happy with my score but my goal is 280 once my league starts.


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## centershot

280 is a very lofty goal. That is where the old NFAA Expert AA scoring bar was set. Not many reach that goal - good luck to you. BTW I fully plan on reaching it myself!


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## LongbowLogan

Just to make sure that I'm shooting the same thing you guys are, is it 5 spot? What I shot was the backside of a 5 spot target with one big target so I could group. Just let me know so I'm not putting scores on here this winter that don't go with this thread lol. Thanks


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## Sanford

Longbow, you can score the 5-spot or the single. The 5-spot only has 5-point rings and 4-point rings and usually shot by compound shooters, as anything out of the 4-ring is a -0- (zero). Most recurve folks use the single spot 40cm target. The single spot target has the same 5 & 4 ring dimensions as the 5-spot as its center, but also has 3,2,&1 rings, giving more room for error.


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## centershot

That's it. The white is 5, next blue ring 4, next blue ring 3, etc. Shoot 60 arrows with 300 points possible all shot at 20 yards. A 280 takes a 4.67 Average or 3 of 5 in the white and the other 2 arrows in the 4 ring + 4 points along the way for 12 ends. Not an easy task. - I need to break into the 270's first, but 280 is certainly possible.


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## DwayneR

LongbowLogan said:


> I shot a 246 this weekend with my 56'' 56# Morrison ilf setup with a quiver mounted! This was my first time ever trying with my recurve, a little heavy but wasn't horrible. I'm very happy with my score but my goal is 280 once my league starts.


 If you hit a 280, then I highly suggest you go pro. . . I have hit every 270-279 score there is, but not a 280. 280 will guarantee you the the top 3 in the nation.


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## LongbowLogan

Thanks, I know the scoring system and how it's shot I just wasn't sure if thats what everyone else was shooting. I shot a lot of 3d this past summer and had a best score of 276!! I plan on doing a lot of shooting from now till league starts, right now i probably shoot 50 shots or more a night. I need to get some target faces and I'll be ready to take on that 280!!! If i dont hit it this season at least I'll have fun trying.


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## steve morley

Good luck with that 280 goal :thumbs_up


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## centershot

LongbowLogan said:


> I shot a lot of 3d this past summer and had a best score of 276!!QUOTE]
> 
> This is exactly why I like the 300 round. With 3D's it is hard to compare scores - were your 3D's 300 points max? yardages set short or long? windy? rainy? makes it really tough to compare. With the 300 round it's the same for everyone - no matter where you are and 60 arrows pretty much takes luck out of the picture. Hope you get that 280.


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## rsarns

280's are a great goal, just remember it always seems like you drop about 10 points from your avg when shooting at some of the bigger shoots.... a 547 (2 rounds) 276/271 won the NFAA Indoor Nat's last year in the Adult Male Trad class. My Avg in practice/league last year was in the high 250's, but in Louisville at the Nats I barely shot a 250 Avg. Shot 260's at the State shoot. Goal this year is to be in the 270's at the Nat's and the State.


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## Shibumi

centershot said:


> LongbowLogan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I shot a lot of 3d this past summer and had a best score of 276!!QUOTE]
> 
> This is exactly why I like the 300 round. With 3D's it is hard to compare scores - were your 3D's 300 points max? yardages set short or long? windy? rainy? makes it really tough to compare. With the 300 round it's the same for everyone - no matter where you are and 60 arrows pretty much takes luck out of the picture. Hope you get that 280.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree 100%. This game is the hardest event in archery I've ever tried. When archer's speak of accuracy online their backyard examples of hitting such and such an odd target at X yards means nothing. Only a time-worn standard like the 300 allows all shooters to compare results in a way that is comparable. Funny part is, all those guys who claim they can stay on a paper plate at 20 yards cannot even come close to shooting a 240, or better, which is about like staying inside 9" on a regulation NFAA 40 at 20 yards.
> 
> If you have never shot a 300, give it a try. But remember, no muligans and no do-overs. Shoot your 60 arrows and be prepared to cry. LOL
> It's a great game.
Click to expand...


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## J. Wesbrock

Shibumi said:


> Funny part is, all those guys who claim they can stay on a paper plate at 20 yards cannot even come close to shooting a 240, or better, which is about like staying inside 9" on a regulation NFAA 40 at 20 yards.


Really? All of them? Because if I ever turned in a 240 it better be due to my bow exploding half way through the 11th end. Personally, I always found field archery more challenging and enjoyable then 300 rounds.


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## Shibumi

J. Wesbrock said:


> Really? All of them? Because if I ever turned in a 240 it better be due to my bow exploding half way through the 11th end. Personally, I always found field archery more challenging and enjoyable then 300 rounds.


Please tell us of your perfect 300 scores shooting a trad bow without sights. When you can average over 280, you've arrived. Not many people have arrived. In fact, I don't know anyone who averages over 280. Have only seen a score that high shot with a very specialized target bow of 33# and 68". Not really comparable to a man shooting his 55# Blacktail off the shelf before hunting season. Those guys rarely break 200 in my experience.


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## J. Wesbrock

Shibumi said:


> Please tell us of your perfect 300 scores shooting a trad bow without sights.


Where do you come up with these things?


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## centershot

Field archery sounds like fun, but driving 4 hours to the only one I've heard of around here does not. Nor does shooting in the cold. I think most would agree that shooting outside is preferable, but till it warms up in a few months the indoor range is where I'll be. I'll be shooting the Vegas face mainly until we switch over in Feb, then the NFAA 300 round will be the main focus.


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## fnds

Shibumi said:


> ... Not really comparable to a man shooting his 55# Blacktail off the shelf before hunting season. Those guys rarely break 200 in my experience.


I think fatigue would play a role for most people shooting 60 arrows and pulling 50#. The 300 round score would not be a realistic assessment of accuracy in that case, IMHO.


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## rsarns

fnds said:


> I think fatigue would play a role for most people shooting 60 arrows and pulling 50#. The 300 round score would not be a realistic assessment of accuracy in that case, IMHO.


I can tell you that a 62# longbow is tiring in a field tourney... LOL I competed 2 years ago in the State, Sectionals and the Nat's with one. 112 arrows a day will wear you out at that poundage. Switching to an ILF bow for target was the best thing I did. I still will shoot my longbow for fun on the 300 round once in awhile.


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## J. Wesbrock

rsarns,

It will definitely wear on you after a while. I shoot my hunting bow for everything. Indoors is fine, but at 56# field rounds require that I pace myself.


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## Shibumi

Wesbrock, I only called you out because you seem to think the 300 round is beneath you. Like shooting a perfect 300 score is something you do regularly. I only contend the event is the toughest shooting test. Other games like field archery and 3D are certainly more interesting. They just don't take it out of you like a 60 arrow routine does at one solitary target. You need much more in the way of spirit and mental toughness to shoot a great 300 score. Those other games are just as hard technically, but do not destroy souls like the 300 does.

Becoming a great indoor 300 guy is like becoming a great swimmer. You have to be willing to work very hard with your face down in the water seeing nothing but a black strip on the bottom of the pool. You have to like solitary pursuits of mind-numbing repetition. Few persons are willing to sacrifice like that.


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## rsarns

Shibumi,
I enjoy the 300 round, but for the toughest test.... I don't agree. I think the Field round is the toughest test. 112 arrows at various yardages throughout the day, uphill, downhill, sidehill.... Yep the 18M or 20 yard indoor is tough... but in my opinion not as tough as the NFAA Field round. That may be because I enjoy the Field event probably the most also.... Now standing next to 600 shooters side by side shooting the indoors is tough to.


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## grantmac

Any of the indoor events can be a challenge, but they definitely don't stack-up to a tough field course or even standard outdoor FITA. Not on a physical level.

Where the indoor has its challenge is in focus. Approaching each shot as though it is the only one, then doing it another 29 or 59 times. Learning from the misses while also letting them go.

-Grant


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## Shibumi

grantmac, I think we are pretty much on the same page with regards to our respect of good 300 shooters, but that word you used, "focus". This is the very essence of all archery, be it field, 3D or formal indoor bullseye.

I still maintain the indoor formal events like 300 are the toughest mentally. And really, that's all the toughness archery requires. I don't consider walking around on a field course to be a workout - not yet, anyway. I'm still in my middle fifties and never get tired from shooting a course. I do get worn out from mentally staying focused for 60 or 90 arrows. I do not take single arrows for granted. I really take each shot as a separate tournament all by itself. It's the only way I know to stay in the game. I don't feel that way shooting 3D. Have not shot enough field archery to really have an opinion other than to say it's very much like 3D to me but you get second and third shots, etc, to correct for a bad first shot. (I like this- lol)


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## J. Wesbrock

Shibumi said:


> Wesbrock, I only called you out because you seem to think the 300 round is beneath you. Like shooting a perfect 300 score is something you do regularly.


You sure do like to read into thing.


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## vabowdog

I shot a 270 -18xs this evening shooting my Black Widow PSA and my Fatboy 500s.


If anybody cares.

Dewayne martin


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## J. Wesbrock

Nice shooting, Dewayne! :thumbs_up


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## BLACK WOLF

vabowdog said:


> I shot a 270 -18xs this evening shooting my Black Widow PSA and my Fatboy 500s.


270 and higher is EXCEPTIONAL shooting! Way to go! :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## rsarns

Shibumi said:


> grantmac, I think we are pretty much on the same page with regards to our respect of good 300 shooters, but that word you used, "focus". This is the very essence of all archery, be it field, 3D or formal indoor bullseye.
> 
> I still maintain the indoor formal events like 300 are the toughest mentally. And really, that's all the toughness archery requires. I don't consider walking around on a field course to be a workout - not yet, anyway. I'm still in my middle fifties and never get tired from shooting a course. I do get worn out from mentally staying focused for 60 or 90 arrows. I do not take single arrows for granted. I really take each shot as a separate tournament all by itself. It's the only way I know to stay in the game. I don't feel that way shooting 3D. Have not shot enough field archery to really have an opinion other than to say it's very much like 3D to me but you get second and third shots, etc, to correct for a bad first shot. (I like this- lol)


I agree for the most part, not sure where you are from, but come out to Darrington for the Nationals in 2013 and shoot the Coyote, cougar and Bobcat courses... then tell me if its a workout... LOL


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## barebowguy

rsarns said:


> I agree for the most part, not sure where you are from, but come out to Darrington for the Nationals in 2013 and shoot the Coyote, cougar and Bobcat courses... then tell me if its a workout... LOL


I agree reynold those were some of the toughest courses I have shot.


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## Shibumi

rsarns said:


> I agree for the most part, not sure where you are from, but come out to Darrington for the Nationals in 2013 and shoot the Coyote, cougar and Bobcat courses... then tell me if its a workout... LOL


I'm an ultra marathon runner who has been into comptitive distance running since high school in the seventies. I've run over 100 miles at a time more than 25 times. No hike in the mountains carrying a bow and chatting with my pals makes me tired. But judging by the chubby fellows I do shoot with, well I can understand your feeling normal hill hiking would be a bad day in the woods. LOL

I understand I'm not the norm.


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## rsarns

Shibumi said:


> I'm an ultra marathon runner who has been into comptitive distance running since high school in the seventies. I've run over 100 miles at a time more than 25 times. No hike in the mountains carrying a bow and chatting with my pals makes me tired. But judging by the chubby fellows I do shoot with, well I can understand your feeling normal hill hiking would be a bad day in the woods. LOL
> 
> I understand I'm not the norm.


The hill climbing is not the biggest challenge, as I myself spend lots of time hiking the mountains out here. It is the shot variations with the steep angles of uphill, downhill and the sidehills that make the courses tough. Not like some of the course which are setup on flat golf course like field courses. However I think we have thread jacked enough.. back to indoors!


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## Shibumi

rsarns, I actually find variation of target position, be it uphill or down, to be a mental break. It's the monotony of one target at 20 yards requiring perfect focus that makes me mentally tired. Shots and courses like you describe I actually find to be a pleasant thing.

This does not mean I can dominate on such a course. LOL I'm a meager shooter (any archery game) at best. All I meant to suggest was that within my own experience, indoor bullseye was the "hardest", whatever that means to you. For me it's concentration on a boring target.

I'm located in the east where most of our 3D courses are very short and not very interesting. Rarely do I see 3D course set up for longbow or even unlimited recurve where the shots are over 25 yards. Most places I shoot even try to eliminate shots through openings in the bushes or drastic up or down shots. I shoot with "hunting archers" who all seem to be afraid to miss. So the courses get set up for very, very easy shots. Not all the clubs I shoot are like this, but most of them are.

I'd love to shoot a course like you describe out west.


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## steve morley

rsarns said:


> which are setup on flat golf course like field courses.


rsarns youve been going to the wrong Field courses , Eurpoeans 2009 Welsh Black mountains, Worlds 2010 in Dahn Germany :wink:








Wales 70y








Wales 64y








Dahn 70y








Dahn 50y


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## rsarns

Steve,
I know a few people who went to Germany... I have saw plenty of pics and love the course. I am fortunate that I live in the mountains out here and most of our field courses are setup similar to yours. I was referring to Yankton and some of the course back east which are pretty flat and well... boring. 

Shibumi,
Don't get me wrong, I agree with the montony of indoors being hard on the focus... I proved that again this morning... LOL Had a great round going and blew a couple of shots... :angry: LOL


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## grantmac

Shibumi said:


> rsarns, I actually find variation of target position, be it uphill or down, to be a mental break. It's the monotony of one target at 20 yards requiring perfect focus that makes me mentally tired. Shots and courses like you describe I actually find to be a pleasant thing.
> 
> This does not mean I can dominate on such a course. LOL I'm a meager shooter (any archery game) at best. All I meant to suggest was that within my own experience, indoor bullseye was the "hardest", whatever that means to you. For me it's concentration on a boring target.
> 
> I'm located in the east where most of our 3D courses are very short and not very interesting. Rarely do I see 3D course set up for longbow or even unlimited recurve where the shots are over 25 yards. Most places I shoot even try to eliminate shots through openings in the bushes or drastic up or down shots. I shoot with "hunting archers" who all seem to be afraid to miss. So the courses get set up for very, very easy shots. Not all the clubs I shoot are like this, but most of them are.
> 
> I'd love to shoot a course like you describe out west.


You should come shoot one of the local 3Ds that Ren and I participate in then, We rarely have anything inside 20yds unless its one of the small targets. Nailing a 35yd turkey, 55yd Elk or 60yd buff is a great feeling with trad gear. A winning score would be 7-8pts/target, I'm having a good weekend if I come back with all of my arrows and I'm usually placing top 3.

The difficulty with indoor is that they are all "easy" shots, but you have to make them everytime. However a good field shooter feels the exact same way about their shots, the distance is marked and the angle can be measured; there shouldn't be any really poor shots. 3D on the other hand should be mostly a game of distance measurement for the good shooters.

-Grant


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## Shibumi

grant, I have not seen a 3D target set beyond 35 yards in over 20 years in New England where I live. It used to be a man making all 30 hits would score around 200 and be a hero. I loved those old course layouts before the hunting element took over and virtually ruined the sport in my eyes. I still shoot 3D but hold my nose while doing it.

Love the photos of Germany. I've never seen anyone taking an uphill shot with their bows higher than 45 degrees. I wouldn't know how to hold on such a shot. LOL

During the 80s and 90s, I followed the IBO circuit around the USA and shot many nice courses. But I was shooting longbow and did not get to shoot very long shots. The other compound divisions had nice long layouts that I got to shoot after the fact for fun. Nothing in archery like shooting 3D out to 60 yards or so. I can't fathom why today's archers resist lengthening their expectations. You can't wound a rubber deer and 3D is not hunting.


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## steve morley

On a Field range -25 yard shots I normally get all 4 either in or very close to the spot (even when I shoot Longbow), moving indoors and not seeing such solid groups can be quite frustating to me, not my favorite round but I know it helps towards my Field shooting in the long run.

Pics of girls in Dahn, my better half in foreground, won for 3rd time (less than four months afther having a baby), she also won European Field last year for 4th time beating her own Field/Hunter WR's by 20points, she picks the bow up 3-4 times a month, I have to shoot 3-4 times a week to remain competitive, drives me nuts that she can do that :tongue:


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## casterpollox

I've followed this thread from start to finish since it was revived recently and there is some good reading. Thanks to everyone who has posted and given advice for us beginers.

I started shooting recurve in January, had my recurve crack on me at 3D provinvials this summer and I'm just starting over with a Hoyt Excel without sights. We're going to try and run a handicap 300 league this winter but I've never tried the 300 before and after reading the thread, I went and tried tonight. I started at 10 yards as suggested and here are the results.









I was pleased with the results and will now move out to 15 and then 20. For those wondering, I'm using Archery Free on the phone to keep score. It's really slick and keeps a running account of your sessions.


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## jmann28

My first two rounds, with my MR6 at 63 lbs were 291, and 296. Im seeing alot of low scores reading through this. Are most of you guys shooting traditional bows? I wouldnt consider myself a good shooter as I just started shooting regularly last year, but seeing lots of low 200's is making me think here lol


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## jmann28

Correction, i just noticed this was in the traditional section. Nevermind lol


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## Shibumi

casterpollox: It might be better if you shoot your 300 from the regulation 20 yards right from the start. The reason being it's easier on your mind. As you shoot from the close distance and achieve a score, you'll see a decline in score as you move farther back to 15 yards and then ultimately 20 yards. This can be tough to witness. It looks like your shooting is getting worse even if it is not.

To start at 20 guarantees a poor score to start, with the promise of gradual improvement all the time until you hit your personal limit of ability. This upward trend of score is much easier to accept for most. I'd never start up close at first. It's too tough to watch your scores get worse instead of better.


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## Viper1

caster -

You're doing it right, and would stay at 10 yds until you're breaking the 270 mark, then move back to 15 yds. You should drop to the 240 range when you do. When you're in the 260 range there, then try 20.

Starting at 20 yds, before you have the confidence to group at that distance gives poor or no usable feedback. When I was running matches, we had new shooters shoot at 10 or 15 yds, alongside with the "regular" shooters at 20. Their scores didn't count, but it got them into the mindset of competing.

Viper1 out.


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## Shibumi

You're wrong, Viper. But then this isn't the first time.

Letting a new shooter think he's competeing is condisending. A shooter has to learn how to fail before he can improve. To have a person shoot well at close range, only to step back to 20 yards and have them get crushed makes no sense to anyone with sense.

I've rarely met a coach whe could shoot worth a damn. This is why they coach.


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## centershot

Shibumi - How many expert AA scores on the NFAA 300 round have you posted?


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## BLACK WOLF

Shibumi said:


> A shooter has to learn how to fail before he can improve.


Not necessarily. It depends on how big the failure is or exactly what you mean by 'learning to fail'. It also is dependent on the students personality. If an archer only misses the target by a 1/4"...it is still a miss and can be considered a failure...and for most archers....if they execute good form....but only miss the X by a 1/4" and still recieve 5 points...it can be considered a success. Every archer is going to fail at some point in their life...otherwize they would never miss....so an archer does need to learn how to deal with disappointment and failure.



Shibumi said:


> To have a person shoot well at close range, only to step back to 20 yards and have them get crushed makes no sense to anyone with sense.


Which is why it is suggested that an archer sart at 10yrds. and move back 5yrds. at a time as they improve. We learn how to crawl before we can run.

One of the founding aspects to how well an athlete can do or improve is with confidence. Confidence is one of the most important aspects of what every archer's shot should be based on. It should NOT be based on doubt or failure.



Shibumi said:


> I've rarely met a coach whe could shoot worth a damn. This is why they coach.


Again...you can't believe everything you read or hear...but from what I've heard...Viper is a pretty darn good shot and if we're basing the ability to coach based on higher NFAA 300 scores...he's more qualified than you to coach. One of the main reason why any coach coaches...is based on their passion for what they do....NOT because they can't shoot worth a damn.

Ray :shade:


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## Viper1

S -

Ah no and anyone who has actually worked with people in real life knows that. When I train people, they get an honest explanation of what to expect when we change something. It could be distance, draw weight, or some aspect of their technique - there are no surprises. In my experience, having a new shooter shooting single digit ends while standing next to guys punching out the 5 ring is a quick recipe for disaster. I've seen too many shooters drop the sport because of that. (Unfortunately, some ranges don't have the ability to shift target positions.)

And btw - as much as I'd like to take credit for it, I didn't invent the idea. It's seen around longer than than I have - for a good reason.

Viper1 out.


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## Shibumi

centershot said:


> Shibumi - How many expert AA scores on the NFAA 300 round have you posted?


I don't believe most of what I see posted for scores on forums. What numbers I have shot (and posted) are very modest as anyone who knows scores can attest. My scores are believable. If I were capable of great scores I would not make any mention of them because so many people lie online about their shooting. I would expect persons to see my 270-280 claims and be skeptical. I sure am when I see others making those claims. (I cannot shoot 270s - for the record)

I've been around competitive archery for as long as Viper and do not see the kinds of scores made (in fact) that many on this forum claim. Most shooters of longbows and recurves are terrible shooters on the whole. If you hang around elite shooting venues populated by the world's best archers you come away thinking the average score shot by the masses is 270. And this is normal for the elite. But those kinds of scores are unknown by 99.999% of the shooters at large.

I can't shoot 270s and very damn few can. In my many years of shooting traditional and watching others shoot indoors with their recurves, be them target models or hunting gear, I'd say the average score I see is around 180. Some can shoot into the 240s but most can't break 200. 

Now here's the funny part. It has always seemed to me the best shooters were almost always self-taught or at least self-motivated. They eschew coaching in favor of working things out for themselves. Coaches always talk too much and have too many theories and other worthless head-stuffing to confuse otherwise natural talents who would be better off learning on their own at their own pace. Making mistakes and learning from those errors. Good archery shots are always good natural athletes in some manner. You can't teach talent or ability. Most coaching to get an untalented person to succeed is simply mental abuse applied to the untalented student. (and a waste of time) You can't beat a dead horse into pulling a plow. 

Coaches in all sports like golf and tennis and archery, etc. all seem to be fulfulling some other personal need unrelated to their chosen sport. They seem to require adulation and respect. A nut doctor could better explain such need. All I know is, I've seen too many bad coaches to ever listen to one.

Read books on your chosen activity, talk with pals, but stay away from blowhards who use public forums to elevate their own self image and sell their lousy books on their given sport of choice. They're not in it for you. That's for damn sure.


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## rsarns

Seriously Shibumi, go to any of the NFAA shoot results and you can see the scores some of us on here have shot. Now I can tell you in my first year of shooting indoor (I never thought I'd enjoy it) my scores dropped about 10 points from my average at the large competitions such as Louisville, I still shot 250 avg. At the state championship I posted 260. Now after another year of bow tuning and form work I am shooting consistently in the 260's on the Vegas face (which is harder than the NFAA blueface target. In my local club alone we have 4 NFAA Trad shooters consistently shooting 240 or higher. A member of AT who has been posting on here (Barebowguy) shoots Vegas every year and shoots against the compound barebow shooters with his recurve and is in the 270's at Vegas. There are many on here who can shoot extremely well, including some National champions.


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## casterpollox

Well after a year of nice conversation this thread really went downhill.  Deep breaths everyone.


Went back to the range this afternoon and shot another round at 10 yards. Here are the results.

View attachment 1222610


I believe concentration was the culprit this afternoon. I had several things on my mind and a large to do list. I should have gotten my running around done first and went to the range last. It was still a lot of fun and I did pick up on a couple things I was doing wrong.

We have our Junior Program tonight so I think I might go shoot a round before the kids show up.


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## centershot

caster - don't let a few poor attitudes pull you down. This post was started (by me) long ago as a place to post scores, see how you compare with others and pick up a few pointers to do better on your next try. I think it has succeded and hope it will continue to do so. As for who to listen to and what scores to believe, well that is up to you - but for the most part I think we are all pretty honest and want to help others get better. By the way, good for you being able to post your scores and be able to discuss them. You seem to be on the right track.


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## Viper1

Caster - 

One thing about this game, especially in the bare bow instinctive ranks, is that there always will be a variation. Sometimes you know why and sometimes you don't. While no one likes a 20 point jump, it does happen, so don't sweat it. Sounds like you're right on track.

Viper1 out.


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## thorwulfx

After reading this thread (not all of it, but...) I've begun to shoot regimented, scored rounds. Wow. It's an eye-opener. I'm learning a lot, and I really feel like just a handful of sessions has already improved my consistency. Thanks, all, and especially Viper1.


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## Sanford

Viper1 said:


> While no one likes a 20 point jump, it does happen, so don't sweat it.
> 
> Viper1 out.


Yep, done that this weekend at my first indoor tournament for the season. 20 points below practice average to start the season  Well, it is only the start of the season-long tournament, so now I'm looking at where I will end more than where I've started.


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## rsarns

Kind of bummed, league canceled tonight, base shut power off.... for maintenance. Grant its re-scheduled for Wed.


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## grantmac

rsarns said:


> Kind of bummed, league canceled tonight, base shut power off.... for maintenance. Grant its re-scheduled for Wed.


Gives me another few days to try and figure things out. This high-anchor is causing a lot of consistency issues, but the ease of aiming is really appealing. Why can't we just shoot under FITA Barebow rules and have the best of both worlds?

-Grant


----------



## kegan

Shibumi, your posts are about as depressing, and wrong, as can be. 

Anyway. Haven't posted in a while but intend to get a target set up and shoot another. I shot a score when I switched to three under with my 62# Omega longbow and I got a 231. Highest yet. Hopefully now, after having practiced with it some more, I'll finally start getting closer to the 240 marker with my hunting gear. Have some new arrows coming too. Just need to get a target built.


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## rsarns

grantmac said:


> Gives me another few days to try and figure things out. This high-anchor is causing a lot of consistency issues, but the ease of aiming is really appealing. Why can't we just shoot under FITA Barebow rules and have the best of both worlds?
> 
> -Grant


LOL, if we could string walk then I would not have to play with my anchor either....


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## DwayneR

grantmac said:


> Gives me another few days to try and figure things out. This high-anchor is causing a lot of consistency issues, but the ease of aiming is really appealing. Why can't we just shoot under FITA Barebow rules and have the best of both worlds?
> 
> -Grant


 How are you doing your high anchor???

You can use your ring finger as a anchor point on your mouth also. That combined with three under gives a low POA.

There are many other choices to change that POA. The question is, are you doing this for Tourney and fun, or are you doing this for hunting?


----------



## grantmac

DwayneR said:


> How are you doing your high anchor???
> 
> You can use your ring finger as a anchor point on your mouth also. That combined with three under gives a low POA.
> 
> There are many other choices to change that POA. The question is, are you doing this for Tourney and fun, or are you doing this for hunting?


Dwayne I'm doing middle-finger behind upper eye-tooth, thumb up.

I'd love to start using my ring-finger but I just can't seem to get it in comtact with anything solid. Perhaps I will spend some time this afternoon attempting to groove that into my shot. Being able to drop 50-75 grains off my arrows and still hold near the gold would be amazing.

I think Shibumi is living in an area that contains no actual skilled trad shooters and he's basing all of his comments on that. Speaking as someone who regularly watches Traditional and Barebow archers stack arrows both indoor and out its very humbling, especially when you are unable to match the score.

-Grant


----------



## rattus58

BLACK WOLF said:


> Not necessarily. It depends on how big the failure is or exactly what you mean by 'learning to fail'. It also is dependent on the students personality. If an archer only misses the target by a 1/4"...it is still a miss and can be considered a failure...and for most archers....if they execute good form....but only miss the X by a 1/4" and still recieve 5 points...it can be considered a success. Every archer is going to fail at some point in their life...otherwize they would never miss....so an archer does need to learn how to deal with disappointment and failure.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is why it is suggested that an archer sart at 10yrds. and move back 5yrds. at a time as they improve. We learn how to crawl before we can run.
> 
> One of the founding aspects to how well an athlete can do or improve is with confidence. Confidence is one of the most important aspects of what every archer's shot should be based on. It should NOT be based on doubt or failure.
> 
> 
> 
> Again...you can't believe everything you read or hear...but from what I've heard...Viper is a pretty darn good shot and if we're basing the ability to coach based on higher NFAA 300 scores...he's more qualified than you to coach. One of the main reason why any coach coaches...is based on their passion for what they do....NOT because they can't shoot worth a damn.
> 
> Ray :shade:


 Learn to fail before you can succeed.... Right... crash the plane so you can learn how to land correctly.... good advise.... :grin:

I was counseled on shooting at 5 going to 15, shoot at 10, go to 30... and whatever mix you could devise. Roving was introduced to me and I've not stopped since. Practice teaches. Proper practice is what teaches and improves ones understanding of what one does. Teachers that teach to impart information and improve skills of the students out of desire and passion for the sport/activity, do the best job in my opinion. You can tell from the posts here who have experience and who doesn't. Who recognizes and who don't. 

Much Aloha... :beer:


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## BLACK WOLF

rattus58 said:


> Learn to fail before you can succeed.... Right... crash the plane so you can learn how to land correctly.... good advise.... :grin:


Exactly! If I'm reading the scarcasm corrctly :wink: :thumbs_up 

Crashing a plane so you can learn to fly...makes no sense...does it :grin: 

Preparing a pilot what to do in case of an emergency....mentally, physically and emotionally...can save his life...and in archery....teaching an archer the proper mechanics first and building his confidence...is going to teach most archers to become better archers rather than frustrate them by causing them to crash and/or more often than not....fail.

Everyone is going to expereince bumps in the road but making a student do something they are not yet capable of....is not necessarily the right way to do it for everyone. Pushing a student beyond their limitations is part of the job of a coach...but their can be a line on how much a coach should push...and it won't be the same for everyone.

Ray :shade:


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## BLACK WOLF

Shibumi said:


> In fact the very first thing we are taught in the simulator IS HOW TO CRASH.


There is quite a big difference between simulation and actually crashing.

Simulation is just part of the tools a coach can use to teach his students...just as an archery coach can simulate a target competition by having their student shoot a NFAA 300 round from 10yrds. rather than pushing them into total failure by starting them at 20yrds.

It's not much different than having one of my clients try benching 300lbs. when they are only capable of benching 200lbs.

Ray :shade:


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## centershot

Fellas, please do not get this thread closed because of personal attacks - use the PM's or take it outside, I really don't care - just get it out of here!


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## J. Wesbrock

Note to moderator: thanks.


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## benofthehood

Hopefully some civility will return lads !

Back to topic ... I just ordered a big ol' 25" Riser with some 40# mediums to have a crack at some indoor barebow [ and maybe some recurve freestyle again at a later stage ] . 
Here in Oz we shoot either IFAA spots of Indooor FITA faces so I'm thinKING the FITA 300 will be the same as the NFAA 300 ? 30 arrows ..... ? 

Anyhoo ... I have been using my longbows and a sighted ILF hunting rig but am really keen, and curious to see how this goes . By the way with wooden arrows out of my Hill style bows at 52# I was lucky to break 200 ..... Its a tough gig , ad a totally different game to the 112 arrow field round which will always be the round I hold close to my heart ... but we'll see how it goes eh !


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## rattus58

BLACK WOLF said:


> There is quite a big difference between simulation and actually crashing.
> 
> Simulation is just part of the tools a coach can use to teach his students...just as an archery coach can simulate a target competition by having their student shoot a NFAA 300 round from 10yrds. rather than pushing them into total failure by starting them at 20yrds.
> 
> It's not much different than having one of my clients try benching 300lbs. when they are only capable of benching 200lbs.
> 
> Ray :shade:


 This makes me laugh. The first thing taught in a simulator is how to crash... I hope you know what you're dealing with here.... :grin: Your simulation references are right on and as you further went on, the simulator allows you to practice emergency procedure so that when and if the you face an actual situation, your rote reactions are the proper ones. Kinda like teaching proper form on the line.

Aloha... :beer:


----------



## casterpollox

benofthehood said:


> Here in Oz we shoot either IFAA spots of Indooor FITA faces so I'm thinKING the FITA 300 will be the same as the NFAA 300 ? 30 arrows ..... ?


As far as I know, FITA 300 is 30 arrows with each arrow worth 10 points. 3 shots per end at a multiple colour target. Yellow, Red, Blue, Black and white. There are ten rings from 10 through 1 for scoring.

The 300 we've been discussing is on a blue target face with 5 rings scored 5 through 1, bull is white, the rest of the rings are blue. 60 arrows, 5 arrows per end, 12 ends. However, the FITA target can be used, as discussed already in this thread, just ignore the extra lines. Yellow is 5 points, red is 4, blue is 3, black is 2 and the outer white is 1.

I think I got that right. The major difference is the number of arrows. 30 vs 60. Fatigue and focus really come into play once you get past the 35-40 arrow mark.


----------



## Leafwalker

Last week I shot a personal high. Up until that point, the highest I'd shot was a 231 and I was at 239 with one shot to go. Finally seeing the ability to break my goal of 240 by a couple of points, I drew back, picked my spot, fumbled the release and missed!

So 239 is my highest so far. That's with a Hoyt Excel, NAP Flipper Rest, Samick Privilege Limbs (30# @ 30"), 31" 1916's with 100gr points.


----------



## traditionalrj

Shot my personal best while taking a break from studying for finals last night. Shot a 278 after having shot 271-273 the past two rounds the days prior.


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## traditionalrj

reading this entire thread made my day. Some of you guys really get into this! HAHA it's just a game!


----------



## John49

Leafwalker, I know the feeling. LOL Thats why I don't want to know my score until its over. I don't even like to know the halfway score when shooting the Fita 600 round. I start thinking if I shoot this, I can break this. Not good. Just shoot every arrow like its your only one, forget about the ones before and the ones after.


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## DwayneR

Leafwalker said:


> Last week I shot a personal high. Up until that point, the highest I'd shot was a 231 and I was at 239 with one shot to go. Finally seeing the ability to break my goal of 240 by a couple of points, I drew back, picked my spot, fumbled the release and missed!
> 
> So 239 is my highest so far. That's with a Hoyt Excel, NAP Flipper Rest, Samick Privilege Limbs (30# @ 30"), 31" 1916's with 100gr points.


 Don't feel bad. . .when I was shooting competition in early 2000. . .I had one more shot to go for my 120th arrow. . . Drew back. . .and SHTF. . .missed the whole darn target, instantly dropped me to 8th in the nation. Oh well. . .life goes on. My friends gave me hell, and I just had to laugh it off. . . And I still laugh at it. . .


----------



## DwayneR

grantmac said:


> Dwayne I'm doing middle-finger behind upper eye-tooth, thumb up.
> 
> I'd love to start using my ring-finger but I just can't seem to get it in comtact with anything solid. Perhaps I will spend some time this afternoon attempting to groove that into my shot. Being able to drop 50-75 grains off my arrows and still hold near the gold would be amazing.
> 
> I think Shibumi is living in an area that contains no actual skilled trad shooters and he's basing all of his comments on that. Speaking as someone who regularly watches Traditional and Barebow archers stack arrows both indoor and out its very humbling, especially when you are unable to match the score.
> 
> -Grant


 The reason why I asked, is that there are probably 6 to 8 different ways to change that POA.

1. Arrow Length. . full length arrows.
2. Pile weight.
3. Change to 6 degrees or more on the helix.
4. Run 30 inches of feathers. . (6 - 5inch feathers).
5. Change to alum arrows. (if you haven't).
6. Raise your brace height. (This is dependent upon other factors).
7. Larger diameter arrows. (This will make a minimal change in the short distances)

Just some of the ways to change POA.


----------



## Leafwalker

Dewayne, yeowch! Luckily I didn't have anything on the line besides my pride. And it wasn't bruised since it was a good game for me.

John, that's advice to live by, but I'm way too curious to go an entire game without looking at the score. If only I had your fortitude!


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## traditionalrj

Look at it as a teaching tool and use it not only to form consistency but to experiment with new things like grip, strings, nock points, stances, bow arm stability, drawing arm tension and location, elbow location, etc. 

When I stopped worrying about the score and focused more on what I could learn from what I'm seeing each round individually and then the round as a whole my scores went up significantly.


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## rsarns

How many of us on here are planning on going to the NFAA Indoor Nationals in Louisville this year? There are some great scores, and would be very competitive there. I'll be there again, hopefully this year I won't shoot one into the bottom of the bale trying to let down... lost the Senior division by 2 points.. All I could do is laugh. Of course after I started to laugh the guys shooting with me did also. That was in one of the early ends on Sunday, pulled it together and shot real well after that tho.


----------



## rambo-yambo

I was all psyched to go to Louisville couple months ago, then I had a sp-lit on my favorite limb. Now my score is about 40 points lower with my new bow. I am not sure if I will be ready in 3 months. wish me luck.


----------



## grantmac

DwayneR said:


> The reason why I asked, is that there are probably 6 to 8 different ways to change that POA.
> 
> Just some of the ways to change POA.


1. 33" 2314
2. 175gr screw-ins
3. Next set will be 3x5" full helical. Currently a little too low of a profile.
4. See #1
6. Just built a new heavy string for this.
7. See #1

Definitely lots of ways to skin this cat. I really dislike loading-up an arrow and then putting draggy feathers on it, not very forgiving. On the other hand I'd say most of my poor shots are loose related so perhaps a little more feather would go well.
I'll be messing around with my new 18str FF+ string tonight. I made the flemish splices extra long for a little more weight as well. I will run it at max brace to slow things down.

Ideally I'd be shooting fast arrows with a PO of 18m, but unless they start making carbons 36" long and 5gr/lbs in 400 spine I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The question becomes whether its better to shoot my lower anchor (which is more consistent) with super heavy arrows that are hard to shoot, or my high anchor with less critical arrows.

-Grant


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## DwayneR

grantmac said:


> 1. 33" 2314
> 2. 175gr screw-ins
> 3. Next set will be 3x5" full helical. Currently a little too low of a profile.
> 4. See #1
> 6. Just built a new heavy string for this.
> 7. See #1
> 
> Definitely lots of ways to skin this cat. I really dislike loading-up an arrow and then putting draggy feathers on it, not very forgiving. On the other hand I'd say most of my poor shots are loose related so perhaps a little more feather would go well.
> I'll be messing around with my new 18str FF+ string tonight. I made the flemish splices extra long for a little more weight as well. I will run it at max brace to slow things down.
> 
> Ideally I'd be shooting fast arrows with a PO of 18m, but unless they start making carbons 36" long and 5gr/lbs in 400 spine I don't see that happening anytime soon.
> 
> The question becomes whether its better to shoot my lower anchor (which is more consistent) with super heavy arrows that are hard to shoot, or my high anchor with less critical arrows.
> 
> -Grant


 Feathers are for only one purpose. . . that is drag. They are not supposed to "straighten" the flight of an arrow because of poor releases, forms and such. But. . .in reality, properly tuned traditional bows are rarely tuned like they should be. In come the feathers. <smile>

To answer your question on whether to shoot lower or higher anchor. . .

Shoot what feels best to you, and is the most consistent. But you gotta try both out with a open mind. You mind find that you can shoot equally well with both.

I usually shoot 3 under for short range and split with longer range.

Some folks can use the riser instead of the arrow tip for aiming. . .then they shoot split finger. This you may want to try.


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## grantmac

DwayneR said:


> Feathers are for only one purpose. . . that is drag. They are not supposed to "straighten" the flight of an arrow because of poor releases, forms and such. But. . .in reality, properly tuned traditional bows are rarely tuned like they should be. In come the feathers. <smile>
> 
> To answer your question on whether to shoot lower or higher anchor. . .
> 
> Shoot what feels best to you, and is the most consistent. But you gotta try both out with a open mind. You mind find that you can shoot equally well with both.
> 
> I usually shoot 3 under for short range and split with longer range.
> 
> Some folks can use the riser instead of the arrow tip for aiming. . .then they shoot split finger. This you may want to try.


Well I shoot 1.75" vanes outdoor and let me tell you: they don't do much in the drag department and they require a pretty precise tune.

My indoor logs are fletched with some 5" vanes that I burnt really low because I was past my PO before. But I've grown my DL quite a bit and now I'm well under the bull. I wouldn't mind a bit more drag on them to make things a little less critical to shoot, and perhaps another 50gr in the tips.

I'm a stringwalker so I shoot 3-under 99% of the time, split-finger starts to come into use past 60m. I'd prefer to keep the same anchor for all NFAA Trad events, indoor and 3D. That will most likely be my high-anchor for shorter PO, which is 40yds with my 3D arrows/limbs.

Cheers,
Grant


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## casterpollox

A little update...

Too many guys at the range last night to shoot from 10 yards (we only have one shooting line) so I did some tinkering. I have the factory grip on my excel and it's been a little uncomfortable for me so I've been thinking about ordering a different grip, so I took off the current grip and wrapped the riser with that horse wrap that sticks to itself but not the bow.

I started shooting from 20 with the compound guys (I'm one of two recurve guys) and was plugging the yellow and red all night, with the occasional flyer into the blue rings. Way more comfortable, no longer distracted by being a little uncomfortable. I think I'm going to shoot the rest of the month like this and then make a decision about what to do.


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## soaringeagle

I used to shoot 240's pretty consistently. But I actually shot more 3d . I always set a goal to average 4's shooting indoors or 8''s shooting 3d. Keeping score is not only a great way to monitor improvement but also set goals and push yourself to improve. When you shoot against yourself and remain focused on your game there comes a point where you have the ability to dial up the intesity when in a competitive situation


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## casterpollox

Forgot to post the results from a shoot on Tuesday. This would have been my last score before making some changes.









On Wednesday ( as I already mentioned earlier ) I made some changes that included taking the grip off my bow. I have been shooting with my hand right on the riser and have found it much more comfortable. Went back to the range tonight and shot this.









Just like my other targets so far, these have all been from 10 yards. I'm feeling more confident in my set up which is making me feel more confident in myself. It's really exciting and spurs me on to shoot more. I pretty much had to force myself to go home tonight because I just wanted to keep shooting but didn't want to over do it.


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## soaringeagle

After a round like like that my next goal would be no 2's


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## SactoBowman

Quick question on the scoring, just bought some NFAA 20 yard indoor targets and shot my first round. Do you score a 5 for yellow, 4 for red and so on?

If so then I shot a 191 at 10 yards with my longbow. Had a couple of mental lapses but it was still fun.


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## centershot

The colored target is the Fita face. The NFAA target is blue with a white 5 ring. If you score the Fita face with the yellow as a 5, red as a 4 etc. it will be pretty close. FWIW I fired a 259 in practice while working on holding/counting - not my best score ever but I like the control that the holding/counting gives me on the shot.


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## Viper1

center -

Yup. That knowing you're in control feeling makes the all difference. As long as you stick with it, it will become easier and easier. (Kinda figured it would work for you.)

Like I said, I only use the clicker as a last resort with bare bow shooters.


Unfortunately, most people who think they shoot "went they are ready" or "it feels right" are really losing control of the shot, and the shot is just a neural short circuit resulting in a premature release. 

Viper1 out.


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## barebowguy

283 this morning, 11 fours in the first 6 ends and then only 6 in the next six.


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## casterpollox

Still having lots of fun but haven't been able to shoot a round for a little while. Last week I took the grip off my Excel to try and see if the different hand position would make a difference. It's still too early to tell but I feel more comfortable and for some reason, stronger when at my anchor point.

Anyhow, here are the results from tonight... still at 10 yards.









I hope Santa brings you something you like!


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## Viper1

c - p - 

Getting better!!! When you start hitting the 270 mark, bump it back to 15 yds. 

Viper1 out.


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## traditionalrj

Jim Powell and I have talked here and there online about a few things and one of them was anchor points and started fiddling around for one that was more "stable". After playing with things all week I decided to shoot two 300 rounds today. Shot a 275 and then a 280 with a robin hood in each round. Though I'm not very pleased with the cost of the robin hoods it was definately entertaining. The 2nd round was better due to me remember to pull through my shots and not just worry about consistently hitting my new anchor point. Needless to say, these indoor rounds do wonders for not only consistency but also for testing and tuning your setup.


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## casterpollox

I agree, it's a great way to monitor improvement or notice a step backwards. I've been playing with my grip and even took off the plastic grip from my recurve and I have noticed positive changes.


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## barebowguy

281 tonight after messing with my release for the last two days


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## zestycj7

I did some 300 rounds this past weekend, shooting low to mid 270's for 3- 300 rounds.
Last year at vegas my highest score was a 234 if I remember right.
I have to bring it 20 more points and I will be happy.
Don.


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## rsarns

barebowguy said:


> 281 tonight after messing with my release for the last two days


Release? Are you playing with a wheelie bow on the side?


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## rsarns

rsarns said:


> Release? Are you playing with a wheelie bow on the side?


Ahhh never mind just read the other thread... don't be messing with that release... I have tried the big follow through, and 1-2" is just what happens naturally for me.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Shot 281 17x today. 278 16x last week


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## barebowguy

rsarns said:


> Ahhh never mind just read the other thread... don't be messing with that release... I have tried the big follow through, and 1-2" is just what happens naturally for me.


I agree Ren


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Shot 2 rounds yesterday - 272 11x and 274 16x


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## grantmac

Ranger B said:


> Shot 2 rounds yesterday - 272 11x and 274 16x


Which riser are you using now? Was that the last with the Club?

-Grant


----------



## steve morley

Great shooting Ranger, those scores are just a future dream at moment, Indoors isn't my strong area, all the more reason why I'm so determined to crack it. :angel:

I shot my second Indoor round of season with wood Recurve and Split finger 259, a slow start with 125 but pleased with 134 on second half, need some time to settle into bows sight picture, which I felt started to happen on the second half as I was more focused on the X and not just the spot. Lighting is not great in our Sports Hall either.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Grant - That was the last two rounds with the Spig. The last round should have been much better but I had one terrible end (20) right at the end and it really bothered me because it was an end where I lost concentration. Otherwise, I was very happy with it. A friend of mine is sending me a Win & Win riser to shoot until I figure out what I want to go to. 

Steve - it's certainly a different game. For me it's largely a mental game. It requires no thinking in terms of where to aim and how far. It's just a mental game of putting the point on the dot and executing the shot. If you are shooting split finger how are you aiming? Are you picking a point or gapping? I would think you would shoot FITA barebow there. Are you shooting IFAA LB indoors?

I really wanted to get a FITA round in for the World Barebow but I can't find one within 6 hours to shoot. There just isn't any FITA shooting in the mid - US. There aren't many NFAA shoots either.


----------



## steve morley

Ranger B said:


> If you are shooting split finger how are you aiming? Are you picking a point or gapping? I would think you would shoot FITA barebow there. Are you shooting IFAA LB indoors?
> 
> .


When I shot the W&W Pro-Accent 3 under I was still 6" under target face even with heavy arrows and 4" fletch and just seemed such hard work to get decent scores. 

With the Pinnacle I'm shooting Split-vsion by riser window sight picture, I'm just feeling more relaxed with this aiming method, the best I did last year with Pro-Accent was 260 in competition and it seemed hard work all the way, I'm at least close to those scores already and it felt pretty relaxed last night so I'm confident I can build on that score (255 the week before). I have a small problem with riser limb bolts but John at Tradtec is sorting this for me with new riser, the Bow shoots ok with 36# indoor limbs but with the 48# Winex limbs I'm getting top bolt slipping/movement, I secured with little glue just in case but means limbs aren't adjustable anymore but it's shooting so nice with 36# Kaya limbs I have no invention of adjusting settings.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Well, I'm shooting 30# limbs indoors, full length CXL 150s with 205 gr. up front. 540 gr. arrow. 1" high nocking point, 3 under and high anchor. That gets me to point on. Being point on makes all the difference in the world.


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## grantmac

Ranger B said:


> Well, I'm shooting 30# limbs indoors, full length CXL 150s with 205 gr. up front. 540 gr. arrow. 1" high nocking point, 3 under and high anchor. That gets me to point on. Being point on makes all the difference in the world.


A 1" high nocking point? Does it really make much difference?
I'm currently shooting 32" GT Series 22s with 330gr up front at 610gr total and still just under the bull with my 30# limbs. They are just dribbling out too.

Cheers,
Grant

P.S. Maybe look at one of the Best risers, they seem pretty light for a BB rig.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

The last think I tinker with is the nocking point. I set the arrow up and then start easing the nocking point up as high as I can without getting a flopping arrow. I certainly don't have great arrow flight but it hits the dot when I execute the shot so that's all that matters indoors.


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## centershot

Shot 258 on my first NFAA 300 in a long time. Sure is nice to shoot that target over the Multi Colored Vegas targets.


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## casterpollox

Shot my first round of 2012 tonight and the only word that can describe it was fluid. Everything felt good except for one end. When I took a look at the final total I was a little disappointed the score wasn't higher but then I saw the few mistakes and felt a lot better because I forgot about them, meaning I was able to shake them off so that was a positive.

Anyhow, here's he score. Anyone else still shooting this our has everyone switched to Vegas?


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## casterpollox

Sorry, forgot to mention this is still 10 yards.


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## Viper1

cp -

Will you please start shooting over a 270, so we can get you back to 15 yds... 

Viper1 out.


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## rsarns

SHooting the Vegas face until Feb 1st here.... then we switch back to the NFAA Blueface!


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## casterpollox

Viper1 said:


> cp -
> 
> Will you please start shooting over a 270, so we can get you back to 15 yds...
> 
> Viper1 out.


I thought I had it in the bag last night when I entered the last arrow into the program but those 2's and 3's killed me. I was surprised by the final total but then I saw the mistakes and that was 6 points right there.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Two rounds yesterday 277 and 279. I'm getting a lot of kickouts or deflections lately so I videoed the target to see just how much they were hitting. This might interest a few of you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WflFjXThkT0&feature=g-upl&context=G275b4c7AUAAAAAAAAAA


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## rsarns

Great video! Thanks for posting it! Some great shooting there!


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## Viper1

Jimmy -

Busted nocks and glance outs are a fact of life with this caliber of shooting. Only thing you can do on a single spot is choose the thinnest arrows (if you're willing to loose the line-cutters) and fit them with "G" nocks. Otherwise its a five spot. Been there, done that. Block type targets are the worst offenders since they hold the arrow so tightly. Stuffed cardboard targets allow the previous arrow to flex more on impact and seems to reduce the glance out distance.

Viper1 out.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Yes, I'm debating it hard. Last year I shot CLX 150s with pin nocks and got some kick outs but not like these aluminums. I got a 4 here and there but these XX75s are resulting in 2s and 3s and I can't afford that. I shot a 3 spot for FITA last year but a 5 spot is dicey. If you blow a shot then its a zero so perhaps getting this bow tuned with the CXLs or going to a thin shaft is the way to go. I've got time to play with it.


----------



## rsarns

I shoot the 2712's right now on the Vegas MC target and am contemplating shooting my CXL or even ACC's for the NFAA Blueface. Right now I am getting glance outs that cost me with only 3 arrows, and when we switch to the NFAA target I am sure 5 arrows will cost me even more points. If I was close to point on then I would not hesitate to shoot the 5 spot vice the single...


----------



## Viper1

Jimmy -

I completely agree with ya - on all counts, it's a sucky choice for indoor spots at this level and either way, there's a risk. I've had guys shooting both line cutters and ACEs indoors and both did well, but both occasionally got burned. Goes under the pick your poison category.

Viper1 out.


----------



## casterpollox

Nice video. Thanks for sharing.

What kind of targets are those?


----------



## Jimmy Blackmon

rsarns the problem with those 2712s is that if you decide to shoot a FITA round you can't use them due to diameter. If you even think you might shoot FITA then I'd use an arrow that qualifies for both.


----------



## rsarns

Jimmy,
I have arrows for that, but thought I'd give the big boys a try for MC this year. Just for giggles I decided to shoot a NFAA 300 round at practice before I shot my MC Vegas rounds... Had 3 bounce outs and broke 2 nocks... 2 of the bounce outs gave me 3's and the other a 4... all right on the 3 - 4 line. Amazed they actually deflected that far out. Lots of arrow slaps that didn't cost me. Bad thing is I shot another 3 on my own for a 267 but my X count was good with 11. I'll be dropping back down in arrow size for Blueface. Last year in Kentucky I shot fatboys... this year I am not sure yet.......


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Yeah, I think next week I am going to try and get back to my CXL 150s with pin nocks. I could see where I beat the pins to death last year but I certainly didn't have these radical kickouts. Looks like we have enough evidence to say that fat shaft aluminums are not the best arrow choice for indoor one spots. Another guy told me it's because the aluminum flexes more. Not sure but a theory.


----------



## Greysides

Ranger B said:


> I shot a 3 spot for FITA last year but a 5 spot is dicey. If you blow a shot then its a zero so perhaps getting this bow tuned with the CXLs or going to a thin shaft is the way to go.


How many shots do you normally 'blow' in a round?

(Rhetorical question!)


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Well, generally don't shoot 3s but every now and then you get one and that would be a zero. I just don't want that to happen at a National Championship. I think I have remedied my issue. I got a 300 gr. point and put it on the CXLs and they are point on at 20.


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## Greysides

Ranger B said:


> I think I have remedied my issue. I got a 300 gr. point and put it on the CXLs and they are point on at 20.



.............and with that and Curling in mind, I have this mental picture of RangerB shooting his arrow and then walking alongside it, blowing on it a little to get it lined up perfectly to hit the X.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Fixed my problem. 300 gr. points on my CXLs. Today's practice session 282 20X, 279 14X


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## centershot

Guys that is fantastic shooting - New shooters, do not be discouraged, anything over 200 is pretty good, up around 240 takes great form and execution - these guys putting up scores in the 280's are truly world class. FWIW I shot a 263 17X Sunday in practice, decent for me - not by best but better than average and good X count. I shoot 2013's and get some broken nocks and glance outs but find that diamater to be a good compromise between size and shootability. Point on is bottom of the 1 ring. BTW shooting those heavy arrows from light bows to get your point on or close takes excellent form - any creep or pluck and they are really off, double edged sward.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Curled my way to a 279 20x and 278 17x today in practice. 

Great shooting centershot.


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## Str8 Shooter

I haven't really shot a 300 round seriously for a couple years but I'm kinda gettin' the itch to shoot them again. I'll have to find out if my club is still doing 300 leagues on the weekend. 

For grins I shot a single spot about a month ago. Only had time for a half round but still shot a 137/150 (forgot to count X's). Shot a 95/100 on the first four ends, got involved in a half-hour conversation and tried cramming the last two rounds into the five minutes before the store closed. Either way I was pretty pleased with that as I probably haven't shot 100 arrows total since September.

Bow was my 50# Whippenstick longbow, Victory V-force arrows, 125 gr. tips. Same setup for huntin, 3D, etc...


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Great shooting. You should get back into it.


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## barebow52

First practice round of 2012. 241 5x's


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## Jimmy Blackmon

278 16x last night


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## grantmac

269 15x last night with a couple of equipment issues. I know I've got high 270s in me if I can just nail down a tune and shoot it.

-Grant


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## rsarns

grantmac said:


> 269 15x last night with a couple of equipment issues. I know I've got high 270s in me if I can just nail down a tune and shoot it.
> 
> -Grant


2nd half after I left must have been tough... you were on pace at the half way point of a pretty good score.


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## grantmac

rsarns said:


> 2nd half after I left must have been tough... you were on pace at the half way point of a pretty good score.


My tied-on nock point started slipping upwards, moving my POI down the target. Plus I was just getting super-tired and lost focus, shooting a Vegas round first will do that to you appearently. Had lots of 24s, nothing lower than a 21 but didn't manage any 25s.

-Grant


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## barebow52

269 in practice. Personal best


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## casterpollox

:thumbs_up


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## centershot

Shot a 270 last night, a new personal best. Felt really good, relaxed and in good control of the shot.


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## whitewolf1

I have just started shooting these for score and I now see what ya'll mean by it forcing you to face what your true shooting is. After reading a lot about it, I knew this would be good for me but frustrating too because of needing to focus on posture, release, follow thru and focus. In the last couple of weeks I have shot 10 rounds for score, a couple at 15, a couple at 17 and the rest at 20. Low score is 236(at 17) and high score is 262(at 20). The rest have all been in the mid 240's except for one 252.

What I have found is that for this type of shooting, I am shooting to heavy at 53# for starting out on this type of shooting. I can see improvement though in handling the weight just from shooting a lot more reps than I am accustomed too. Think I am going to build a 40 pounder though. Still not shooting with a clear mind and I know that is hurting me. Just thinkin too much about anchor, release and posture right now but that seems to be getting better too. Gonna have to do some tweaking on nock height too I think. Arrow flight seems to be telling me I am right on the edge of tune. Only a very slight variance in release yields a little wobble, not much but enough to see it at 20.

Viper, I saw you mention shooting a 270 at 15 before moving back. Is that normal benchmark for moving back? I have been bouncing around distance wise, 15,17 and 20 but want to get back to 30-35 asap. Intention is to shoot some 3d's around here and need to start stretching things out pretty soon if I dont want to be guessing.


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## centershot

Consistant 240's is usually the point to move back another 5 yards. 240 is averaging a 4 for 60 arrows.


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## rsarns

Didn't shoot in league last night, but in practice today shot a 285 13X! SHot a 99/92/94... pretty happy with that! FLetched up full length CXL 150's and experimented with different weight tips... got to 300 gr tips and my point on was the 4 line... was almost like shooting with a sight. Hope I can keep that up!


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## vabowdog

Just got a new Hoyt HPX with carbon foam limbs 32# 

Shot a 261 Friday 
Shot a 272,274 Sunday
Shot a 278 tonight 

Slowly getting better.

Dewayne Martin


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## centershot

rsarns a 99! Wow. That is the highest trad score for a single round that I have ever heard of. 285 is awesome shooting - Great Job!


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## rsarns

centershot said:


> rsarns a 99! Wow. That is the highest trad score for a single round that I have ever heard of. 285 is awesome shooting - Great Job!


Not sure whats up with the forum.. tried posting a response 2 times and it went blank. Ok here it is again.. LOL Glad I had a witness, someone to tell me it really did happen and I wasn't just dreaming... I shot 25/24/25/25, fortunately the 4 was in the 2nd end otherwise I might have started hyperventilating if I was perfect say through 3 ends... LOL It was my personal best, have shot low 280's a few times, and was excited about those. So far in 2 weeks I have been pretty steady in the mid/high 270's, so I am stoked. Last year I finished the indoor season pretty steady in the high 260's, so love the improvement, hope it lasts through State and Nationals....


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## rsarns

Practice today... 94/92/93 279 15X. Filmed myself a couple ends with my cell phone... found an issue with my form. Everything is good through the release, and then my head pops up... peeking. Stayed and worked on blank bale shooting to fix it... not sure when I started doing it, but was consistent through all 5 shots on the end. Amazing what you can see filming yourself.


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Practice today 2 rounds - 281, 284


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## rsarns

Good shooting Jimmy!


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Thanks


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## Arrowwood

Beat my best score by one point with a 247 5X, then shot a 259 11X. :dancing:


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## casterpollox

Good job guys! Keep it going!

I tried to shoot a round last night at 10 yards but then everyone showed up and I had to move back to 20. It started well though... a 22 and a 24. I was going to keep going but just from 20 but of course I got to talking with everyone and well... club night isn't the best for working on a good score. :embara:


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## Jimmy Blackmon

great work


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## barebow52

Another 269 in practice yesterday. even had an 18 one rd . 90,91.88


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## rsarns

282 20X today in practice, worked some blank bale before shooting my round due to issues I saw filming myself before. 95/94/93 games. Highs of 25 and low of 1 22 end. RangerB's video of focus and maintaining back tension rang true on the 22 end...


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## Jimmy Blackmon

Great shooting 282 is strong.


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## centershot

You guys are absolutely tearing it up! 280+ consistantly wow, keep it up!


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## rsarns

Thanks!


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## barebow52

233 6x's , 249 10x's


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## rembrandt

Gotta get me some targets and give it a try. I like shooting targets and for me its a great way to practice and improve. I had a 297 with a Bowtech Old Glory a few years back but haven't tried this with a stickbow......BTW, I ordered the book, "Shooting the Stickbow" and now looking forward to reading it.


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## rembrandt

I haven't looked thru all these posts but is there a photo of the target? I went over to the Free Target site and they have the NFAA 5 Spot targets but from what I hear on here the target you are refering to is a single target bullseye! Is that right?


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## rembrandt

I went over to Lancasters and they have a NFAA target that is all blue except for the middle white dot with the "X". Is that the target your refering to? If so, I will order some.....Love to shoot targets.....


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## Viper1

rem -

Yes - enjoy!

Viper1 out.


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## rsarns

Here is a pic...


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## rembrandt

rsarns said:


> Here is a pic...


Thanks to you and Viper......I'll order me some asap.....


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## rsarns

Be very careful as it is addicting....


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## centershot

It is addicting, just don't be discouraged if you score is not what has been posted on here lately. These guys shooting consitant 280+ are among the best shooters in the world. If you break 200 on your first try you will be doing very good. Have fun with it.


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## rsarns

My first post in this thread.. Feb 2010.... of my first ever indoor round with Trad equipment....

Those are some great scores! I finally broke down and shot my 1st Blue face indoor 20yd 300 round Monday night... shot a whopping 130 something ..LOL Today at lunch I shot a 158. So its getting better. Switched arrows to 500's instead of the CE Heritage 250's, the 500's flew a lot better. Not bad with my Whisperstik Mojo recurve off the shelf.... hope to get up to 200 with more practice. That spot is a lot harder to hit than I would have imagined, 

So 2 years later and going to a low poundage ILF recurve (not 60+#'s), and I am shooting pretty well. It takes listening to those who know... lower poundage and develop form... practice, quality practice. I filmed myself the other day and did not like what I saw... not even sure when I started doing it... peeking after the release, and I thought I was holding perfectly..LOL Back to the blank bale and form work. Todays filming looked much better, shot a 1/2 round for practice today, as I shoot league tonight... 141 8X. Due to the way tourneys seem to drag on I have adjusted my practice sessions, shoot, wait 4 minutes as if the next line is up, then go score (take 2 minutes) then go back to the line. This I am hoping will simulate the waits between shooting lines at big tourney's.


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## rsarns

BAd night at league.. shot good groups most just below the 5 in the 4.... 258 14X. Way too much practice today I guess, got tired and didn't focus well. All those 4's add up to a below avg score.. oh well... humbling. Especially shooting next to Grant who shot well for the 1st 8 ends, and kind of got some of my mojo in the last couple.. he still shot a 273.


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## Arrowwood

Shot 89, 89, and thought I was on track for another 89 or so, but shot 81 in the last game for 259, still my best so far.

Even a few ones and twos and threes really eat into your score.. this is the target from Feb. 3d


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## grantmac

The three "3s" I shot really hurt. I was super rushed tonight and had to retune basically from scratch, shot the whole game with pretty severe shaft contact. Did some tuning afterword and gots thing settled down then shot a couple 24 and 25 point ends.

-Grant


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## rsarns

Today was supposed to be my compound fingers (FSL) practice day, but after last night I am probably working on the recurve again...


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## bfisherman11

First I want to say I love shooting the 300 round. I think it is the BEST form tool I have and it is fun to see what I score.

I shoot instinctive. I shot better last year averaging about 228 with a high of 240. This year I have bounced around 206 to 211. Last weekend I finally shot two games of 226..... I think I am getting my groove back but it has been a struggle.

I wonder if you guys would mind answering a question. I promise I am only asking to judge my own progress. I would like to know how you guys aim? Do you gap, instinctive or use a pin site?

Thanks,
Bill


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## rsarns

I use my arrow point, and for indoor it is just below the 5 ring. I began 2 years ago completely instinctive and have gone to gap shooting since I shoot field events etc... with the longer distances it really helps. Oh ya practice this morning was better with a 274 17 x....


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## bfisherman11

That is a great score. I shoot 3 under, have a double anchor (feather on nose thumb knuckle on ear lobe) and as taught to me by Rick Welch I hold for a few seconds to allow my bow hand to settle. I have had a few guys insist that I am a gap shooter but honestly I am looking at the spot I want to hit. Subconsciously who knows what’s going on. I think there is a definite advantage to using the arrow tip or something. I think that is a good method and something to consider. 
I have never tried looking at the tip of my arrow but I bet at least having an idea what your point on is or looks like would be a good training aid.

Anyhow, thanks!
So how about the rest of us? I really enjoy learning from these boards.

Regards,
Bill


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## centershot

I gap - I don't look at the point, but I sure know where it is in my sight picture! I'm aware of the sight picture as a whole with the main focus on where I want the arrow to hit "X". On my indoor bow my point is just below the 1 ring on the NFAA target. On my faster bows the gap is about 24" @ 20 yards. I find knowing the gap and checking it gives me confidence that the arrow will land pretty close if I execute a good shot.


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## Arrowwood

Gapping here, with the end of the arrow an inch or two below the one ring. Once I get the gap right, I look at the center of the target, or I will definitely miss.

Before I switched to three-under and long, heavy arrows, depending what bow I used the tip of the arrow was either about two feet below the target, or on the floor about five feet below the target.


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## rembrandt

Arrowwood said:


> Gapping here, with the end of the arrow an inch or two below the one ring. Once I get the gap right, I look at the center of the target, or I will definitely miss.
> 
> Before I switched to three-under and long, heavy arrows, depending what bow I used the tip of the arrow was either about two feet below the target, or on the floor about five feet below the target.


My brother use to spot shoot but I never did figure out how he did it......


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## grantmac

Just like Rsarns: I float the white center just above my arrow tip.
Now keep in mind, that doesn't mean I'm focused on the tip; the focus is still on the target. I've seen major gains going to a set-up like this for indoor, considering last year the best I managed was 220. This year I'm shooting consistently +260.
Realistically getting to 240 is pretty easy if you are willing to set-up a bow just for indoor. But you will have to fight for every increase past that point.

-Grant


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## Thearchery97

This weekend I picked up my dad's samick sage and shot it for a day. Took it to a tournament and got a 190. I had only shot it for one day. No sights or anything. Is that decent for my youth male age group?


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## rsarns

anytime you shoot it is decent provided you have fun.. but a 190 and only shot it for a day or so.,.. that is real good. Keep it up!


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## barebow52

256 6x


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## bfisherman11

Well, I shot a 223 last night in practice and as I said I shoot instinctive. A couple times at full draw I looked down towards my arrow and the tip was quite a distance below the target much less the 5 ring. I shoot 53# and a lighter arrow. I suppose there is some gap/sight picture I am seeing shooting instinctive but really I saw no way to even consider incorporating a conscience point on with my setup at 20 yards. I use this same setup for summer outdoor 3d shooting so that probably explains the large gap. This is also close to my hunting setup except I use a heavier arrow for that.

By the way, I really enjoy hearing your scores and how you aim/shoot. On some sites the word "Aim" seems a dirty word... Not with me. Like I said, I am a big fan of the 300 round and I am facinated with how you guys shoot these great scores!

Bill


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## centershot

Glad to see this picking up steam again. The 300 round is a great way to gauge you shooting. If your eyes are open, your aiming.


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## rsarns

good day of practice 277 17X with my Recurve, and also shot my compound with fingers (NFAA FSL) and shot a 290... more tuning to do there was shooting the 5 spot and had a complete miss.. zero's don't add up well.. First round with it setup that way and new arrows... LOL You would think with a scope and compound (even though its still shooting fingers) I could do better.


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## grantmac

I got my wisdom teeth pulled yesterday morning and I finally felt able to shoot this afternoon. Still on codine so I had to beg a ride to the range.
Shot a PB though: 284 22X and then shot a Vegas 3-spot 276 7x. Really happy with both of those.
Its funny but when you are really on that 5-ring looks about twice its normal size, or that might have been the drugs 

-Grant


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## casterpollox

Performance enhancing drugs ! olice: Someone call the IOC for a urine test.


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## rsarns

I have heard of beta blockers but codine is taking it over the top..

273 19X in league last night. Started good, and finished good... some issues in the middle.. did shoot 2 25 4X ends though. Found out 3 blueface rounds in one day leads to lack of focus, and deteriorating stregth... even when they are many hours apart


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## rsarns

SHot a 277 19X this morning in practice... struggled with focus as the practice I am doing is to simulate the actaul tourneys... shoot, wait 4:30 for the "other" line to shoot... then score arrows.... then shoot again. Tends to be tougher for me than just shoot..pull and shoot again. I see a 5-7 point difference in practicing my way.. just need to get better at retaining my focus...


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## grantmac

283 20X today. Really settling into my tune nicely now, I haven't had the urge to change anything the last few outings. It seems being set-up to hold just below the white works best for me. Also I'm at a negative tiller and that seems to shoot best, weird.

-Grant


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## grantmac

282 15x today. Just couldn't leave well enough alone and did a little tweeking, ended-up back at nearly the same set-up as before. This I need to give myself a day off though, focus is drifting.

-Grant


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## jbw59

I've only been shooting for 2 1/2 weeks now and only at 10 yds. Not shooting at a 5 spot. I'm not that brave. I'm shooting at the 40cm indoor target. Just starting out at this distance, I set the bar low for myself at 15pt per end. that would be a 180. So far, 201, 179, 208, 189, and 208. As I move back in distance, I'll lower my expectations a bit and work up slowly. the funniest part is I've been shooting into a bag rated for a crossbow and the first shot at it with a 22# bow didn't have enough energy to penetrate the weaving and the arrow bounced off. I laughed my head off.


----------



## grantmac

Took a long time to find my groove today:
93 7x
92 7x
then:
99 10x

Single best game and PB overall with 284 24x. Still fiddling with tune and getting things even more figured out.

-Grant


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## rsarns

A 99.. awesome.. just curious which end of the game you got the 4 on.... I thought later about mine... Could not imagine going to the last end perfect... good shooting! See you tomorrow night in league.


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## grantmac

rsarns said:


> A 99.. awesome.. just curious which end of the game you got the 4 on.... I thought later about mine... Could not imagine going to the last end perfect... good shooting! See you tomorrow night in league.


3rd end.

I began the second game with a 21 which really hurt, put one over in the 3.
Also I started the 7th end and forgot to switch the target, so I didn't count that one and carried on from there.

I actually didn't manage a single 25 until the last end of the second game, so I shot 3 25s in a row. Its coming together, lets see if I can keep it there with people around tomorrow.

-Grant


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## rsarns

Thats why I am shooting 2 leagues now.. put some more line pressure on me...


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## rsarns

Since I didn't get to practice yesterday, went tonight and shot 2 rounds... 279 20X and finished with a 282 23X... including this $16 mistake.

If my point on was closer to the 5 I'd start shooting the 5 spot.... that was in my last end a 24... shot my next 2 arrows very carefully. Running out of targets and shot a well used one tonight instead of a clean one... time for the club to buy more targets!!!


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## jjrider

After reading all the scores on this forum thread I thought I needed to try a 300 round and see how I measure up, I figured it would give me a base line. My score was 98 w/1x. I have only been shooting since the end of December and don't practice a lot. I shoot on a traditional 3D league once a week shooting 90 arrows, and I might shoot 40 or 50 on a Saturday as my practice day.


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## centershot

jjrider don't be discouraged. At least now you have a baseline to compare to and I would guess that you'll beat that score pretty quickly. Something you might consider is shooting at 10 yards until your scores are in the 240 range then move back 5 yards at a time until you get to 20 yards and the standard round. It takes time, don't rush it - make sure you are solid at the shorter range then move back. Shooting targets with traditional gear is very humbling and tough on one's pride - could be why many of the 'experts' don't shoot standard target rounds. As for Grant and rsarns - you guys are shooting increadable scores! Keep up the good work.


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## rsarns

Thanks Center, but as you might recall we all start somewhere... I reposted some of my earlier posts from 2010 in this thread... 2 years and lots of changes and tuning... and coaching has helped immensely. My scores on average have went up 20 points since last year also. Last night Grant and I shot together in league, and it was not a very good night for us, he shot 268 and I shot a 269, still good scores but both below our averages. Thing is we practice a lot together and push each other, and that really helps. I have found my biggest issue with Monday leagues is I don't get to shoot much over the weekend, and then run to the range Monday morning and shoot way too much, then come league time that evening not only am I tired but my focus is not where it should be. My scores on the Wed night league at another club is better because I don't over practice on Wed. 

As far as practice goes, I shoot everyday during the week, normally shooting 2 rounds on the NFAA 40CM target, and 1 day on the weekend I will get to do the same. I have been doiing this to build up the strength and focus ability to be at my best come tourneys. 

ANother big jump in my scores over the past 2 years is in my equipment, I went from shooting a longbow (52#) to a Bernardini 25" riser with good limbs. For fun I shot my 42# Longbow in practice a week ago, just to se what my scores would be. After some practice I shot a solid 252, and not sure I could have done much better.


----------



## centershot

rsarns and grant, I'm not taking anything from you guys..........I know all too well how difficult it is to shoot good scores. You guys have absolutley earned it. I just don't want a new shooter to come in and be discouraged if they don't knock out a 275 right off the bat. This is a great game - it rewards practice and effort. Along with that it has mile stones, some come fairly easy but others take considerable effort to achieve. So hopefully I did not offend, that was by no means my intention.


----------



## grantmac

centershot said:


> rsarns and grant, I'm not taking anything from you guys..........I know all too well how difficult it is to shoot good scores. You guys have absolutley earned it. I just don't want a new shooter to come in and be discouraged if they don't knock out a 275 right off the bat. This is a great game - it rewards practice and effort. Along with that it has mile stones, some come fairly easy but others take considerable effort to achieve. So hopefully I did not offend, that was by no means my intention.


No offense at all its taken me a year of really hard practice to get here and that was on top of years of flinging arrows (which probably hurt). But I think that anyone with dedication could do the same thing if they approached it in the same way.

-Grant


----------



## rsarns

Center - no offense at all... I was agreeing that the new shooters should understand that it takes a lot of practice and don't get discouraged. My point was it took me 2 years of almost daily shooting to get consistant... if I can call myself that...LOL My starting goal was to shoot 150, then it was to shoot in the 200's... broke into the 240's last year and ended shoting 260's. Our club has lots of new shooters, and its fun to work with them and encourage them, last night one of our newest shooters broke into the 200's for the first time. I have been fortunate to have friends who pushed me to shoot better, and that has really helped. Of course shooting with Grant almost daily keeps me trying to find that next 3 or 4 points. I hope the new shooters get as addicted as I have become to this great sport we have.


----------



## centershot

Been a while since I had the light limbs on my Excel - so being a rainy night I went to the range and shot a 270 11X - started off a little slow with an 86, then shot 93 and 91 on the last 2 ends. Anything in the 90's is a good round for me. That was fun, I need to be better about mixing in a full round every now and then year around.


----------



## mrjeffro

This is the first I have seen this thread. The scores you guys shoot are incredible! I would be happy with your scores at 15 yards. 

Centershot, I see when you started this thread 2 years ago, you were in the low 200's. Now, 2 years later in the high 200's. Very impressive (and gives me hope)


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## rembrandt

This is a great thread to read.......Some folks on here are shooting great scores and until you've tried NFAA you can't appreciate just how great those scores are. I'm wondering however, how many are shooting bare bow instinctively and how many have the long stabs, sights and raised rests with plungers etc? Alot of difference between the two I would think.......


----------



## grantmac

Rem: All of these scores are NFAA Trad scores. Nobody is shooting Barebow or Freestyle unless they indicated.

My best BB score was a 285 and I know I can find another easy 5 points next year, my best Trad was 284 22X and I'd like to hit high 280s next year.

-Grant


----------



## centershot

Keep at it guys - you'll get there. This thread pretty much tracks my progress from when I started trad a couple years ago. There was a pretty quick progression to about 230-240 then it takes more and more work for each point above that. Now I usually shoot in the 260's with my 32# Excel and in the 250's with my 40# Buffalo or other hunting bows. 270 is my personal best, I've done it twice now so it's time to up my goal to 275 (get rid of the 5 stinking 3's I shot last night and I'd be there!). I owe most of my progression to Tony's book and advice. The book has been my main source of information along with help here on AT. I personally shoot 'Trad Legal' according to the NFAA rules. I think most of the posts on this thread are also shot barebow - trad legal. Most of the good guys shooting Oly style will be in the high 290's and not uncommon to see a 300.


----------



## rembrandt

centershot said:


> Keep at it guys - you'll get there. This thread pretty much tracks my progress from when I started trad a couple years ago. There was a pretty quick progression to about 230-240 then it takes more and more work for each point above that. Now I usually shoot in the 260's with my 32# Excel and in the 250's with my 40# Buffalo or other hunting bows. 270 is my personal best, I've done it twice now so it's time to up my goal to 275 (get rid of the 5 stinking 3's I shot last night and I'd be there!). I owe most of my progression to Tony's book and advice. The book has been my main source of information along with help here on AT. I personally shoot 'Trad Legal' according to the NFAA rules. I think most of the posts on this thread are also shot barebow - trad legal. Most of the good guys shooting Oly style will be in the high 290's and not uncommon to see a 300.


Your shooting great scores and I hope to one day get there......can you differenciate where the classes end and begin and are there just two classes in Trad? Thats according to equipment....


----------



## centershot

There's only one class for Traditional in the NFAA. The other that some shoot is Barebow - this allows for stabilizers but lumps you in with compounds. And Freestyle Recurve/Longbow which allow for sights (Olympic Style) Some places where there are larger numbers of shooters they break down to recurve, longbow etc. but the NFAA keeps it pretty simple. 

H. Traditional:
1. This style of shooting is for those who wish to compete with the Recurve or Long-bow.
2. No device of any kind, including arrow rest, that can be used for sighting will be used or attached to the archers’ equipment.
3. There shall be no device, mechanical or otherwise, in the sight window except the arrow rest, arrow plate or plunger button.
4. No part of the rest or arrow plate may extend more than ¼ inch above the arrow.
5. No clickers, drawchecks or levels will be allowed. No laminations, marks or blem-ishes on the face of the bow or in the sight window will be legal.
6. The string may be of any color but must have a single color center serving. One single nocking point is permitted. One or two nock locators may be used. Brush buttons and string silencers, properly placed may be used. Any other marks or string attachments will be illegal.
7. One anchor point only is permitted.
8. The archer shall touch the arrow when nocked and drawing the arrow with the in-dex finger against the nock. Finger position may not be changed during competi-tion. In the case of physical disability of the arms or hands, a chew strap may be used in place of fingers.
9. Gloves, tabs or fingers shall be the only legal releases. In the case of physical disability of the arms or hands, a chew strap may be used in place of fingers.
10. All arrows shall be identical in length, weight, diameter and fletching with allow-ance for wear and tear.
11. No stabilizer or counter balance may be used.
12. No written memorandum will be allowed.
13. Bow Slings are permissible.
I. Freestyle Limited Recurve/Longbow:
1. Any type of sight and its written memorandum may be used, providing the sighting mechanism has no magnification. Levels, string peep sights; marks, ties or string


----------



## kegan

Best I've shot has been three rounds now in the mid 230's with my 60# Omega, and I'm usually keeping them in the high 220's. My goal for the year will be to be shooting 250 with my hunting rig... we'll see!


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## rembrandt

Centershot, that kinda leaves me out with Trad.....I like the rest and the idea of a stab......


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## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> Centershot, that kinda leaves me out with Trad.....I like the rest and the idea of a stab......


The rest is Trad legal for NFAA, the stab is not. With the stab you will be shooting Barebow with the compounds, good scores start around 285 for that class.

-Grant


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## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> The rest is Trad legal for NFAA, the stab is not. With the stab you will be shooting Barebow with the compounds, good scores start around 285 for that class.
> 
> -Grant


I can manage without a stab but I do like the rest tho.......


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## centershot

Fine with me, run what you brung! If you go to some organized tourney you may have to change it up a bit. Till then shoot whatever makes you happy.


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## rembrandt

centershot said:


> Fine with me, run what you brung! If you go to some organized tourney you may have to change it up a bit. Till then shoot whatever makes you happy.


Thats what I'll do and I'll let the club tell me where I fit in. I really don't care all that much about winning, I just want to shoot a respectable round and not embarrass myself. I've always been competitive, especially in golf but all I want now is to be out there and enjoying the people and the 3-D targets......age will do that to ya!


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## jbw59

This is fantastic. So many guys posting new high scores and showing improvement. Me too. I just went back to 20 yds 3 days ago. Progressively 121,136, 146 and today a 162. Everything is coming into focus and it seems more "natural" now instead of mechanical. the learning curve is still pretty steep. I know once I get to 17pt per end, or a 204, the curve shallows out and points become tougher to get. Man is this fun.


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## rembrandt

jbw59 said:


> This is fantastic. So many guys posting new high scores and showing improvement. Me too. I just went back to 20 yds 3 days ago. Progressively 121,136, 146 and today a 162. Everything is coming into focus and it seems more "natural" now instead of mechanical. the learning curve is still pretty steep. I know once I get to 17pt per end, or a 204, the curve shallows out and points become tougher to get. Man is this fun.


Thats the way I feel......I can't wait to get back out there with my Excel and see if I can beat my record 228. I found out one thing, I'm gonna have to order more targets cause I'm tearing up the center quicker now and if you have no white area its kinda hard to see if you got in the X ring......Nice problem to have tho!


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## centershot

Shot a 228 this evening with the Buffalo - I should add that it was at 30 yards. The range was empty and I've always wanted to try a full round at 30 so, I did. Pretty darn fun too I might add - scores ranged from 15 as a low to several 21's for the highs. Seemed I'd have several really good shots then send one into the 3 ring and mess up a good end. I did fire a couple 2's but avoided the 1 and 0. I did get progressively better as the rounds went on 73-75-80 = 228 so I was getting a feel for it, but at that range form errors are very unforgiving. Fun stuff and shooting the benchmark 240 will be a challenge.


----------



## spinsheet

I've been shooting a trad bow for about six months now. A 25# recurve, no sights, off the shelf. I kept score for my first time about two weeks ago and shot a 140 at 20 yards. Viper recommended that I move up to 10 so I did and shot a 191 last week. I feel that having something objective like this is a great way to track my improvement (or lack thereof!). It's making me concentrate a lot more knowing that a miss will actually hurt!


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## rembrandt

spinsheet said:


> I've been shooting a trad bow for about six months now. A 25# recurve, no sights, off the shelf. I kept score for my first time about two weeks ago and shot a 140 at 20 yards. Viper recommended that I move up to 10 so I did and shot a 191 last week. I feel that having something objective like this is a great way to track my improvement (or lack thereof!). It's making me concentrate a lot more knowing that a miss will actually hurt!


I started out at 15yds and shot a bunch of arrows at that distance. I finally got enough confidence to move back to 20 and there I'm staying for awhile. When I feel like I can shoot on out to 30 then I'll drop back and zero in on the target......Its been a blast shooting the Excel and at 20yds I'm doing OK for just having shot it about a month now......


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## centershot

That's the right idea spin, stay up close until you shoot in the 240's regularly, then move back in 5 yard increments. I started with a 26# Howatt Cavalier - shot a PB (at the time) of 269 with that bow. Don't know if you have Viper's book - if not, pick up a copy. I've often said it is the best $20 I've spent on traditional archery.


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## centershot

Bringing this one back from the dead.


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## vabowdog

Shot my first 300 round a week ago with a new bow,arrow combo and surprisingly shot a 276 I was happy!!!

Dewayne


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## bowman79

What set up do you have now Dewayne? I heard through the grapevine you where looking for something new.


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## benofthehood

276 ... nice Dwayne !
with the Widow ?


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## rsarns

I am primarily shooting the Vegas face to get ready for our State MultiColor and Fita's (and of course Vegas). I have shot a couple of NFAA Blueface rounds also, just a few points under last years average. I am pretty happy with that, as at this time last year I was barely breaking into that region of scores. Looking forward to trying to break my own State records, and am hoping Grant will make it back down here to do the same. 

For those of you who have read Grants posts, he is that good. A bit over a year ago he joined our club here, and with a longbow was shooting around 200's. WIth some practice, (Every night we were in there) and a change to an ILF recurve and some tweaking of his anchor he was busting State records a year later. So for the guys starting out, it can be done.


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## airwolf

vabowdog said:


> Shot my first 300 round a week ago with a new bow,arrow combo and surprisingly shot a 276 I was happy!!!
> 
> Dewayne


a 276 for your first one? lol thats 100 more then what i average. great shooting man , you are blessed.


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## vabowdog

Yes... i too was suprised with a 276 but this new PMA CXL combo really works for me...i started off shooting all 24's shot like 6 in a row...never could get a 25 then magicly shot 2-25's followed by a 21 which was my low...found a new rythem.

Yes I was shooting a Black Widow...PMAX in 64" 41#@28.5" and i draw closer to 29.5 with light poundage.

AS far as wanting something new....Im always wanting something new I have on order a Barebow Built by Spig I think its called a Vision ben waiting on it for 5 weeks thru Archery Alternatives.

Ive been toying with the idea of selling my beloved PSA with a customAll black glass riser....I won alot of stuff with it but now never shoot it always shooting my PMA..


Dewayne


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## bowman79

There's a good amount of us shooting spigs now. What limbs did you go with?


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## vabowdog

I bought the SF Elite in 34# longs....supposed to be here the 28th. Can't wait to get it set up and shootin it.


Dewayne


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## tmark

Just stumbled on this thread after searching for form advice; there's a ton of thoughtful responses and impressive shooting here. It's both impressive and motivating.

Six weeks ago I picked up a Martin X200 at 45# along with half dozen Easton St Epics 500s with 100 grain field tips cut to 31". The guy who sold me the rig looked at me and estimated a 28" draw based, I'm presuming, on my height and stature (5'9"). Yup, he didn't measure it and I was novice enough not to know better. At the same time I picked up a bunch of NFAA faces and started shooting 140s from 20 yards and worked up to 160s after four weeks.

Two weeks ago, things started falling apart and I was back down into the 140s. After reading through multiple threads and postings here's what I've discovered:

- I had a death grip on the bow
- my release was/is all over the place
- my actual draw is 30.5" meaning I'm drawing over 52lbs which is probably way overbowed for a novice and overdrawn for the bow
- the brace height was set 1" lower than the minimum recommended by Martin.

The minute I relaxed my grip, my scores climbed back into the 160s. Focusing on a consistent release and follow through brought the scores into the 180s. Yesterday, after having discovered the brace height issue and setting it to Martin's recommendation, I scored a 197.

So here's the good:
- I'm learning to recognize and control form issues
- my scores are climbing again
- I'm able to shoot 600 - 700 arrows a week without feeling significant fatigue (even at a relatively heavy weight)

Here's the bad:
- I'm probably overbowed and overdrawn and have NO budget for a second bow
- my arrows are probably improperly matched to the bow, and yup I have NO budget for another set at least or a while
- 1 to 5 arrows per round are complete fliers and I'm not really sure why
- 11 to 14 arrows per round score in the 1 or 2 rings and I'm not really sure why
- unless I directly concentrate on it, my follow through is all over the place
- likewise, the minute I lose focus, my bow grip tightens

And here are the questions:
- given my gear, what kind of consistency is it reasonable to expect?
- are there specific exercises that can help in developing a consistent release?
- even if I had a solid form, what role does aiming play in consistency for a novice? And are there exercises to improve aiming?
- what kind of gear should I budget for if my objective is to shoot high NFAA 300 Trad rounds at 20 yards (keeping in mind that I'm 5'9" 145 lbs, 50 yrs old and draw 30.5")?
- what questions am I NOT asking that I should be  ?

Tons of regard and respect for the expertise here, and thx tons in advance,
Trevor


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## centershot

5'9" and a 30.5" Draw Length? Are you anchoring behind your ear? or do you have really long arms? Best advise I can give you is to spend $20 and get the book "Shooting the Stickbow". Short of a good coach this is the best way to learn to shoot traditional in my opinion. Given your gear and a few minutes to get it tuned and shooting properly I think I could be shooting scores in the 250's pretty quickly. While it is a bit on the heavy side and it is much easier to learn on a lightweight bow, I think you will find that the scores have a lot more to do with the shooter than the bow. The Martin X200 is a nice smooth shooter (I had one) and your arrows should be pretty close for spine and length. Just a matter of practice and maybe even more importantly practicing properly. Keep at it, you'll get there.


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## tmark

centershot said:


> 5'9" and a 30.5" Draw Length? Are you anchoring behind your ear? or do you have really long arms? Best advise I can give you is to spend $20 and get the book "Shooting the Stickbow". Short of a good coach this is the best way to learn to shoot traditional in my opinion. Given your gear and a few minutes to get it tuned and shooting properly I think I could be shooting scores in the 250's pretty quickly. While it is a bit on the heavy side and it is much easier to learn on a lightweight bow, I think you will find that the scores have a lot more to do with the shooter than the bow. The Martin X200 is a nice smooth shooter (I had one) and your arrows should be pretty close for spine and length. Just a matter of practice and maybe even more importantly practicing properly. Keep at it, you'll get there.


Thx centershot ...yeah, anchored at the corner of my mouth ... long arms I suppose; since properly confirmed at a pro-shop in Kitchener. I agree, the Martin does shoot smoothly and I have no complaint with it other than its more weight than I would otherwise have chosen had I known. As for the arrows, I'll take your advice and not worry about them. I'll also try and track down the book as combing through these forums for advice sometimes feels like finding a needle in haystack and then, just when I figure I've found the answer, another entirely different needle pops up.

T


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## centershot

Keep the Martin and keep your eye open for a lightweight - sometime there are amazing deals at pawn shops, garage sales, etc. you just never know. But find a bow in the 30# @ 28" range and you will not regret it. I have yet to hear of someone that said "I started with too light of a bow".


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## tmark

centershot said:


> Keep the Martin and keep your eye open for a lightweight - sometime there are amazing deals at pawn shops, garage sales, etc. you just never know. But find a bow in the 30# @ 28" range and you will not regret it. I have yet to hear of someone that said "I started with too light of a bow".


I'll keep an eye out ... scores are still rising btw ... scored a 207 two days ago and a 210 today ... it seems every time I add a new focus they climb. Today I spent most of the practice shots on experimenting with draw hand torque which in turn seemed to provide a better understanding of what's happening when the inevitable fliers come along. Also, I notice that undue attention to aiming generally has a counter-productive effect ... 

T


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## centershot

Well hunting is over around here so I decided to put the lighter (33# Axiom) limbs on my new Titan III riser. My arrows were acting weak (full length 2013's), so after a point weight change and a few tweaks to the plunger I had it shooting decent - bare shafts still on the weak side but the combination shot good enough. Grabbed a target and went after it - shot a 90, 91, and 94 for a 275! A new personal best and hit my goal for the season on the first round of the fall. I need to get back to the range soon to see if it was a fluke or if I can do it again. Either way, that was a great way to start the indoor season (at least for me) and maybe I need to re-evaluate my goals.


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## barebowguy

centershot said:


> Well hunting is over around here so I decided to put the lighter (33# Axiom) limbs on my new Titan III riser. My arrows were acting weak (full length 2013's), so after a point weight change and a few tweaks to the plunger I had it shooting decent - bare shafts still on the weak side but the combination shot good enough. Grabbed a target and went after it - shot a 90, 91, and 94 for a 275! A new personal best and hit my goal for the season on the first round of the fall. I need to get back to the range soon to see if it was a fluke or if I can do it again. Either way, that was a great way to start the indoor season (at least for me) and maybe I need to re-evaluate my goals.


Great shooting, now you need to set new goals


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## benofthehood

Centreshot ... well done .......


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## rsarns

Good shooting Center!


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## rsarns

I am actually shooting the Vegas face right now in prep for State FITA, MC indoor and Vegas in Feb... Then I'll switch to the NFAA target. I really prefer the Blueface target!


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## jbw59

I'm still searching for the consistancy I need and have only been shooting since Feb. but I shot a 203 yesterday.


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## centershot

Thanks guys. Think I'll up my goal for the season a couple points - I like to keep it obtainable but challenging. Not sure where to set it 280 seems pretty high for me - even a 276 is averaging 23's for 12 ends. I need to shoot a few more games to see where I'm really at. All our leagues are Vegas until Feb, but I like to mix up a few games with the NFAA blue face - and I get to shoot 5 times instead of 3 before I have to go retrieve arrows!


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## tmark

Amazed how awareness in certain areas can improve consistency ... I worked on keeping my finger tension consistent today by taking some tension off my index finger and applying more to the middle ... after a half dozen practice rounds I started scoring ... three weeks ago I would have been happy with a 180 ... today I set a new personal best: 69, 75, 73 for a 217


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## centershot

Shot a 259 last weekend. Need to quit working on things while trying to score a round.........


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## vabowdog

Shot two round last week the first was a 270 with 18x the second was a 263 with 13x man was I tired....could keep the bow from just wandering.....


Dewayne


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## vabowdog

Just finished up my second 20 yards NFAA round first was a 265 with carbon arrows switched to 2016 full length with 125 points shot a 275 with 22 x with a 19 and 20 if I could have got those up to my 23.5 average I would have been closer to my 285 goal.....

Dewayne martin


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## mrjeffro

vabowdog said:


> Just finished up my second 20 yards NFAA round first was a 265 with carbon arrows switched to 2016 full length with 125 points shot a 275 with 22 x with a 19 and 20 if I could have got those up to my 23.5 average I would have been closer to my 285 goal.....
> 
> Dewayne martin


You guys are shooting some impressive scores. Dewayne, why do you feel your scores went up when you switched to aluminum? Just curious


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## vabowdog

The CXL is a 350 with a 145 head and standard insert,those are really stiff and heavy...I love the heavy but they are just a tick too stiff...the aluminums are so forgiving I called LAS and had John send me a dozen X7 eclipse in2114

The aluminums seemed to hit the white spot when I was just close the carbons seemed to be out of the 4 when I was in a bad shot.

Dewayne


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## centershot

261 and 267 on Saturday - I did shoot another 5X round which was pretty cool. Been trying to mix in NFAA 300 rounds once in a while to change up from the Vegas targets. A lot of it depends on what targets are left over from kids leagues that are not all shot up!


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## vabowdog

Started shooting a 2114 full length with a 100 grain point been shooting good shot a 271,273 went to the CXL 350 with a 100 grain point and shot a 274 don't think I'm going to get any better getting frustrated.....

Dewayne


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## centershot

Scores in the 270's are very solid shooting. Just takes one or two little mistakes (3's) to knock me back to reality (260's). 276 is averaging 23 points per end - darn good shooting.


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## centershot

Interesting 300 rounds last night. We are doing a Trad league (only 4 of us) and they usually want to shoot animal faces or shoot cards etc. - well after we did a 45 arrow card shoot at different ranges, we decided to shoot a 300 round and see where we were at. For 2 of the guys this was their first 300 rounds ever. I was pleasantly surprised at the scores. 219, 240, 251 and 265. I told them before we started anything over 200 would be good and 240+ would be very good.


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## kent83

I've been shooting traditional for a few months and decided that I want to do a 300 round maybe once a week to figure out if I'm improving or not. Did my first last night at 20 yards and shot 175, so that's my benchmark (actually, I shot 10 rounds of six arrows because I was a bit tight on time...). I'm shooting a 45# Bear Grizzly, by the way. My scores started to improve as I went through the last few rounds, but I have to admit I think that was because I starting to key into some reference points in the sight picture (lines on the target wall) even though I was forcing myself to try and stay "instinctive." I have a question -- one of my arrows bounced out of the target and onto the floor. I didn't count it -- what happens in a competition if an arrow doesn't stick?


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## rsarns

It will be re-shot in NFAA.


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## Humdinger

These scores are Blue face target with 5,4,3,2,1 scoring 12 ends of 5 arrows?? Right??

I did a half round and scored a 138... Im guessing this is average.. My neighbor started to get cranky with the banging noise as he called it ( Arrow hitting Whitetail) so i couldnt get the whole round in. This was 18x5's, 10x4's,1x3.

My vegas target 40cm sinlge spot PB is 265 out of 300. Which i just did yesterday.. After bombing the SW indoor Sectional i was disgusted and woke up out of a dead sleep Sunday night with what i called a dream.. I figured out what my issue was and how to fix it in my sleep. Then after work monday pulled out the Whitetail and started hammering away..problem solved!! haha


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## barebow52

1st scoring round of the year 246


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## steve morley

I managed to get 3 rounds in over the last 10 days (first of the year) 272 a 270 outside in -6C and last night in club 278, it was a tight shooting line and had my 4year old in tow, so lot of distractions, as we have our first Indoor tourney of the year at the weekend, if I can hit 270 in the tourney I will be very happy.

Katrin was teaching a bunch of Students and counting loudly the timing for the shot and they all releasing, Im slower and had to work hard on shutting her out of my mind, first 3-4 shots I had to really stop myself from releasing on Kats command lol

The 32" 2315s 180g points and 4 x 4" feathers that Jimmy suggested are working a treat for me :thumbs_up


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## centershot

Now that our club has a place to shoot again (although not quite put together yet - we have a couple butts) I got a chance to shoot a couple rounds this weekend (after working on the range). Sat. I shot a 254 and Sunday I shot a 260 - these were with my old Howatt Cavalier 26# bow and 1816's. Felt good to get back at it. Anyone else punching paper yet?


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## ncheels

My NFAA 300 shooting ends every late August. Then it's back to my longbows and hunting practice and Fall/Winter stump shooting  But great scores and glad you got your range back.


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## centershot

My 300 shooting sounds about opposite of yours - in November hunting is over, the weather is getting nasty and indoors sounds like a pretty good idea. We usually stay indoors (occasionally outdoors when the weather is nice enough) until about March when the Indoor State Shoot is over - then 3D's and hunting starts in September.


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## Arron

Mine will start in Jan and go to April. It will be my first 300 league so I am looking forward too it. My practice rounds have ranged from the 230's to 240's. My goal I am setting for myself is 260 at the end of league.


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## wseward

Good work...and good luck with the 300s!!


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## vabowdog

Been shooting the 300 round now for a month, shot 13 rounds so far all in practice none in competition....


Shot last night 287-21X



Dewayne Martin


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## centershot

Very nice Dwayne - ever make the 290's? That would take one spectacular round!


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## vabowdog

My high score is a 292-35X that was in practice not in competition.....Ive been shooting a New SKY TR7 Riser with TR7 limbs with a BB weight and small stabilizer setup for NFAA...this bow is a dream to shoot so easy to hold so easy to shoot well...Ive shot 13 rounds with this bow and my low was a 279 my high is a 292 and my average is 286.thats 10 points better than any other bow ive shot.


Dewayne Martin


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## Big Country

vabowdog said:


> My high score is a 292-35X that was in practice not in competition.....Ive been shooting a New SKY TR7 Riser with TR7 limbs with a BB weight and small stabilizer setup for NFAA...this bow is a dream to shoot so easy to hold so easy to shoot well...Ive shot 13 rounds with this bow and my low was a 279 my high is a 292 and my average is 286.thats 10 points better than any other bow ive shot.
> 
> 
> Dewayne Martin



Dewayne, first, congrats on the awesome shooting! Glad to hear you like the new setup. :darkbeer:

Second………you ARE staying in trad class this coming season, right? :lol:


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## vabowdog

Big Country....your name aint Roy Nelson is it???

Yes loving my new SKY and Yes I ARE staying in TRAD this season....

Dewayne


----------



## Big Country

vabowdog said:


> Big Country....your name aint Roy Nelson is it???
> 
> Yes loving my new SKY and Yes I ARE staying in TRAD this season....
> 
> Dewayne


No, I was Big Country way before Roy Nelson hit the heavyweight class…….:wink:

We both share similar profiles though.:embara:


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## itbeso

vabowdog said:


> My high score is a 292-35X that was in practice not in competition.....Ive been shooting a New SKY TR7 Riser with TR7 limbs with a BB weight and small stabilizer setup for NFAA...this bow is a dream to shoot so easy to hold so easy to shoot well...Ive shot 13 rounds with this bow and my low was a 279 my high is a 292 and my average is 286.thats 10 points better than any other bow ive shot.
> 
> 
> Dewayne Martin


LOL. My best so far is not as good as your worst.


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## vabowdog

Big Country are you trying to convince us that you are as sexy as Roy Nelson???


Dewayne


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## centershot

Awesome Dwayne - practice or not that is excellent shooting. Serious focus for the full 60 arrows. For anyone that does not really understand what shooting 290 on the NFAA target amounts to - 24 of a possible 25 points per round will get you to 288. That is 4) 5's+ on every end, finally someone that actually does shoot 3" groups @ 20 yds!

Ha Ha itbeso, "LOL. My best so far is not as good as your worst" I've shot 275 twice, but usually I'm in the 260 range - got some work to do!


----------



## Big Country

vabowdog said:


> Big Country are you trying to convince us that you are as sexy as Roy Nelson???
> 
> 
> Dewayne


Only when I rub my belly………:darkbeer:


----------



## Brianlocal3

Well my best so far is about 150, I guess I need some more work!!!


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## centershot

Shot a 269/300 on Saturday with a broken nock in the 5 that landed my arrow in the 4..........would have made 270 without that little mishap - oh well. My arrows a just a tad stiff and I shot out the left side of the bull - I'll make a little tweak and see if I can get the group centered up and pick up a few points. It was fun shooting the old Tamerlane - that bow is about the same age that I am. Should add that this was just a practice round - no early leagues for me this year.


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## vabowdog

Been shooting about 2 rounds per week...just switched to Carbon Express LineJammers with 150 upfront seemed to be a little faster than my XBusters..I dropped my poundage down about 3lbs...got my point on back to 21 which for me is perfect.

Shot 4 rounds with new arrows so far...292,288,289,280......the 280 came from a total miss on arrow 60......I had cut a truck load of wood and was really tired and let the arrow slip off my fingers.


Dewayne


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## centershot

Great shooting Dwayne - even Alan is going to have to step his game up this year! My gap with the old Tamerlane and 2013's is about 8" below the target face. I'd like to get it up to the bottom of the target but like the way these arrows shoot so may just stick with the current setup. I never have liked being point on at 20, I'm a little more calm with 'some' gap.


----------



## MGF

I'm no expert on 300 rounds but one of the wood bows I made ended up shooting about point on at 20 with full length 2013's.

Before it broke, I was shooting really well with it... not as good as Dewayne though.

It took some getting used to. I had shot with a gap for so long that I couldn't hardly get myself to put the point on the 5 spot. I felt like I was going to hit the moon or something. LOL


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## BLACK WOLF

vabowdog said:


> Shot 4 rounds with new arrows so far...292,288,289,280......the 280 came from a total miss on arrow 60......I had cut a truck load of wood and was really tired and let the arrow slip off my fingers.


That's SMOoooookin'!!! :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


----------



## vabowdog

Went to the club today...very focused nothing bothering me at all...all by myself...shot a full 300 on the blue white face...

293-29X

Then went on to shoot the 300 on the Vegas..

287-8X


Had a breakthrough tonight with my shooting...nothing major just the small stuff.


Dewayne Martin


----------



## BLACK WOLF

vabowdog said:


> Went to the club today...very focused nothing bothering me at all...all by myself...shot a full 300 on the blue white face...
> 
> 293-29X
> 
> Then went on to shoot the 300 on the Vegas..
> 
> 287-8X
> 
> 
> Had a breakthrough tonight with my shooting...nothing major just the small stuff.


Daaaang...that's AWESOME! :thumbs_up

Please share what your breakthrough was...even if it is minor.

Ray :shade:


----------



## ncheels

MGF said:


> I had shot with a gap for so long that I couldn't hardly get myself to put the point on the 5 spot. I felt like I was going to hit the moon or something. LOL


Even with my 31# target recurve, I have a such a huge gap at 20 yds, that I can't even imagine what it would take to have a point on at 20 yds. I'd feel like MGF - that I was going to shoot way over the target. But at the same time, I'd LOVE to have point on at 20. I've shot much better with "pick a point" type aiming, then split vision type of gap.


----------



## BLACK WOLF

ncheels said:


> But at the same time, I'd LOVE to have point on at 20. I've shot much better with "pick a point" type aiming, then split vision type of gap.


Most people do shoot better when they can get their aiming reference closer to being on target for the distance they are shooting from.

There's a reason why certain aiming techniques will dominate certain competitions.

If an archer wants to be competitive in a certain event...it's wise to research the techniques that dominate that event.

There's NOTHING wrong with taking advantage of techniques or equipment choices to increase your score as long as it falls within the class rules.

Ray :shade:


----------



## centershot

ncheels said:


> Even with my 31# target recurve, I have a such a huge gap at 20 yds, that I can't even imagine what it would take to have a point on at 20 yds. I'd feel like MGF - that I was going to shoot way over the target. But at the same time, I'd LOVE to have point on at 20. I've shot much better with "pick a point" type aiming, then split vision type of gap.


Just slide your fingers down below the nock about 1" and you will have the small gap. It's called stringwalking but it is very easy to try and you can quickly see if it is for you or not. If you like the small gap then there are ways to get there while shooting within 'Trad' rules.

That is awesome shooting Dwayne - I believe your scores are the best that I have ever heard of shooting within Trad rules. Keep up the great shooting. It is really cool to know just how good a stick and string can be shot.


----------



## Arron

I have been playing around with some string walking the past couple of weeks. Once I got the tuning down for 20 yards I can see were it can be a very accurate aiming system. Walked down the string 1" let the arrow point float around center and I was pretty amazed. 
ncheels - I you are interested in checking out some string walking look up Jimmy Blackmon on YouTube. He has a few videos explaining it.


----------



## vabowdog

The other day I rad Itbesos top 10 for finger shooters so the last 2 nights I've been really trying the fingers at a slant to the string and the swing type draw...

My shoulders are staying strong much longer,drawing the bow directly to the target and stopping is so much easier than 12" above your intended impact point.

Then once I get to the exact spot I'm letting everything settle down and quit moving..most of the time it takes 2-3 seconds.

Shot last night a 293-29X. Tonight shot a 291-28X. I really believe this new improvement will put 2-4 points on my average.





That's all.


----------



## Arron

vabowdog - Killer scores there. I did that once then my alarm went off and it was time to get up for work.


----------



## ncheels

centershot said:


> Just slide your fingers down below the nock about 1" and you will have the small gap. It's called stringwalking but it is very easy to try and you can quickly see if it is for you or not. If you like the small gap then there are ways to get there while shooting within 'Trad' rules.


Thanks for the advice. I'll certainly try this to test out the small gap. Based on your answer, while this gives me small gaps to try out, it wouldn't meet trad rules. I plan to do some research.


----------



## ncheels

Arron said:


> Walked down the string 1" let the arrow point float around center and I was pretty amazed.
> ncheels - I you are interested in checking out some string walking look up Jimmy Blackmon on YouTube. He has a few videos explaining it.


Thanks Arron. I will. Looking forward to trying it.


----------



## itbeso

vabowdog said:


> The other day I rad Itbesos top 10 for finger shooters so the last 2 nights I've been really trying the fingers at a slant to the string and the swing type draw...
> 
> My shoulders are staying strong much longer,drawing the bow directly to the target and stopping is so much easier than 12" above your intended impact point.
> 
> Then once I get to the exact spot I'm letting everything settle down and quit moving..most of the time it takes 2-3 seconds.
> 
> Shot last night a 293-29X. Tonight shot a 291-28X. I really believe this new improvement will put 2-4 points on my average.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's all.


I'm just glad I didn't tell you everything.:smile:


----------



## scmike

Wow!
And I was tickled to death to shoot my new high score of 237.
Do you shoot in the 290s consistently?




vabowdog said:


> The other day I rad Itbesos top 10 for finger shooters so the last 2 nights I've been really trying the fingers at a slant to the string and the swing type draw...
> 
> My shoulders are staying strong much longer,drawing the bow directly to the target and stopping is so much easier than 12" above your intended impact point.
> 
> Then once I get to the exact spot I'm letting everything settle down and quit moving..most of the time it takes 2-3 seconds.
> 
> Shot last night a 293-29X. Tonight shot a 291-28X. I really believe this new improvement will put 2-4 points on my average.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's all.


----------



## ghound

I was looking back and i have only shot this target once and that was in a competition, i had been shooting 4 months at the time and scored 181 with my English longbow shooting wooden arrows, i really hope i have improved since then lol


----------



## vabowdog

SC, my average has been a 285 the last 2 nights I've shot were 293,291.

Dewayne


----------



## centershot

ncheels said:


> Thanks for the advice. I'll certainly try this to test out the small gap. Based on your answer, while this gives me small gaps to try out, it wouldn't meet trad rules. I plan to do some research.


Stringwalking puts you in Barebow Class. In Trad Class a finger has to touch the nock. Not to worry, just give the stringwalking a try during a couple of practice sessions. If you like the way the sight picture looks then you can work on some heavier/longer arrows and maybe change to a higher anchor to get your gaps the way you want them. Of just shoot barebow - I shoot for me and do whatever I feel like - I'm often the only guy in either class so it really does not matter anyway.


----------



## centershot

Got out last night and shot a round with the old Tamerlane. Ended up with a 258 11X, just had too many 3's for a really good score - my little brain kept getting in the way!


----------



## guyver

Shot a 254 last night. started 19, 24, 23 all others were 20-22. I'm steadily improving: 231 on 12/6, 241 12/7, and 254 12/12. I recently switched to a high anchor after shooting under chin so long, am finally getting back to were I was a year ago score wise. I'd like to hit 270 within a month

I'm curious at what level shooting would switching to a 5 spot and fat arrows be beneficial, if ever. I would think once you hit about 270-280 it could be considered beneficial.


----------



## vabowdog

Guyver, I'd say once you go thru a complete 60 arrows and not shoot a 3 then you can go to the 5 spot....I shoot 5 spot some in practice but competition is something else....losing 2 points is bad but losing 5 is a real punch in the guts.


Dewayne


----------



## centershot

I agree vabowdog - those 3's being 0's would have made my 258 about a 240. Nocks are cheap and glance outs are fairly rare, think I'll stick to the single spot!


----------



## barebow52

I've been staying in the 235-245 range with longbow and wood arrows , My personal best is 254.


----------



## vabowdog

Averaging a 235 with longbow and woodies is a strong score....

Good shootin

Dewayne


----------



## vabowdog

I shot last night at the club with Tony Maxey and Brandi, shot a NFAA single spot 300 had one slip right off my fingers into the 2 but finished strong with a 291 -26X shot the 3 spot vegas round only to 300 finished with a 284 really struggling to focus by the end....its too much to shoot 90 arrows and trying to score them all well.


Dewayne


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## centershot

That is one of the best strings of 290+ I have ever heard of Dwayne - keep up the great work. It would really be cool to see 280+ scores both days at Nationals.


----------



## vabowdog

Center, I have to agree it would be cool to see a 280+ two days back to back at Louisville....as long as I'm the shooter!!!


I'm hoping this will transfer to the line but as we all know what you can do in practice means nothing on the line...last year I was totally unprepared for Louisville...I was shooting an average of 270 before and about a 255 in leagues,went to Louisville and shot a 264,266 and was tickled pink...

Lets hope it carries.


Dewayne


----------



## Humdinger

Keep it up Dwayne and you'll be in Masters of Barebow 5. "The art of Indoor"

Im really impressed with your scores!


----------



## grantmac

I personally don't see the advantage to the 5-spot except as a challenge for practice, competition makes for mistakes.
I'd say that an arrow around the 22-23 series works the best on the single spot. The most important thing to consider is nock and point shape though. A shaft with a steep nock or bushing can cost points for sure. Likewise I think that a point doesn't necessarily have to be one of the pin-type, but a bullet shape slides nicely beside the other arrows.

Getting point-on is definitely a challenge when staying NFAA legal. There is a battle between getting an anchor you can use and ending-up with arrows so long and heavy that they punish mistakes.

-Grant


----------



## barebow52

232 and 236 in practice this week


----------



## scmike

Finally shot 240 today. The odd thing is I had been practicing longbow with wood arrows all weekend, and late this afternoon decided I'd better practice for indoor. Our league shoots Thursday. So I got out the ILF bow and the carbon arrows, shot a couple of warm-up ends and then started. My first two games were 83, and I started the third with a 20 and 21. I don't know whether it's because I was tired or the light was really dying, but I then shot a 16. I needed a 17 on the last end and got it.


----------



## vabowdog

Shot at the club tonight and it was packed, there was 6 of us on the line at one time,I'd wait amd rotate my shot with a few of the other compounders who were shooting the Vegas face getting ready for Lancaster Classic in 3 weeks....shot well had some tuning to do and then settled in to score.

291-32X shooting my SKY TR7 with 12" stab and Carbon Express LineJammers with 200 grains up front.




Dewayne


----------



## Big Country

Been shooting for score on the Vegas face for 3 weeks now, and cannot seem to break into the 270`s. A couple of 268`s have been my best to date. I did have a 244 going into the last end on friday, then promptly went 7-7-6 on the last three arrows for a 264.ukey:

Just like when I shot wheelbows, I HATE shooting spots, but I know I have to do it.


----------



## barebow52

234 and 242 in practice over the weekend


----------



## vabowdog

Been having some issues with spine of my CXL 250s fighting them tooth and nail, been nocking my arrow with cock vane out and the down feather had wore a trough thru my Velcro deep enough to guide my arrow only when I shot it OLY.style.

Once I finally figured that out I replaced the Velcro,changed my feather nock to cock feather up and holy smokes!!! So much better...I can actually hit what I'm aiming at...

Took my 3-D bow to the club shooting my CXL 250s off the shelf,no weight,no stab,no plunger,only a wood block covered with Velcro and a washer welded to a threaded stud in the window...IBO legal...

Shot a 276-17X ....not a great score but I was really happy for this score with this setup.




Dewayne


----------



## centershot

Shot a 259 with my 35# Samick Spikeman on Saturday after working on the new range for a few hours. Not too bad but not great. The Spikeman is a one piece bow that is pretty light and fast. I have a pretty big gap for indoors with that bow, but it's still a lot of fun. Waiting on my Warf to get serious about indoors.


----------



## scmike

Shot a 244 in practice Wednesday, then shot a 226 in competition last night. Frustrating!


----------



## centershot

It's tough to shoot your practice average in a competition.........there are just so many distractions and shooting is usually so slow that keeping any type of rhythm is nearly impossible. Best thing to do is shoot more competitions and try to get used to the distractions.


----------



## J. Wesbrock

I shot a banked score for league this morning. 280 19x. There's a lot of room for improvement, and skinny arrows are a pain for indoor paper. They cost me at least three points this round.


----------



## vabowdog

Shot at the club today in a pin shoot of 27 archers...totally had a brain fart of 21,22 back to back...managed to shoot string before and after..


Ended with a 283-21X


Dewayne


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## Mr. Roboto

I shot a whopping 197 this past weekend. I can't remember the last time I shot under 200. The wife said it must be do to the 3 inches of skin cancer surgery I had a couple days before that on my bow arm. To me, my form didn't feel any different, but I kept nailing my arm with the string. It has been years since my last bow hickey


----------



## centershot

257 - 16X with my Samick Spikeman - the light physical weight of that bow makes it very unforgiving......a little flub and whamo a 3. I need to tune it a bit as the arrows are porpoising pretty bad. Was going to do that last night, but forgot my tools.............oh well, still a fun night of shooting.


----------



## JMYBFFT

Hello all. I am new to archery (about 6 to 8 weeks in) and shot my first NFAA score today, a 214. I was pretty happy, but amazed how much fatigue set in on the last 4 ends. My first 4 ends totaled 76 with one X, my next 4 were 78 with one X and my last 4 were 60. This was during my lunch break today so I shot a little faster than I normally would in order to get all twelve ends complete and I shot 6 arrows per end, but always left out the last arrow I shot, the one with the all but missing 3rd vane. About how long does it normally take to shoot 12 ends? I did it in about 40 minutes today and not sure if that was cause for the fatigue or if I just need to keep shooting arrows and build up more stamina.

This should be the last time I use the range's rental equipment as my riser and limbs arrived today and the shop should have it set up for me by tomorrow (YEAH!!!). Should I expect immediate improvement with my own equipment or will I likely get worse before I get better (I have been shooting a 30# rental bow and just bought a 25" riser with 32# long limbs)? In case it matters I am 6' 1" and was tentatively measured with a 31" draw length prior to ordering my bow, but the gentleman setting up my bow said we would do a more accurate measurement on my new bow once it is set up.

This forum is a wealth of information. Thanks to all.

Bob


----------



## centershot

Kind of depends on what the range equipment is - but I would venture a guess that once you get your own setup and get it tuned your scores will increase quickly.


----------



## vabowdog

Went to the club tonight and shot with 15 others on the line...shot three practice ends all were 24 then started scoring....24,24,25,25...98 the next 4 were exactly the same....I have never felt so strong..the arrow would go straight into the spot and just set like the bottom limb was resting on the floor!!!!


The last end I shot 25,25,25,25. Ended up with a 296-29X 

My personal best by 3 points....shooting my Sky Tr7 and Carbon Express LineJammers.


Dewayne


----------



## J. Wesbrock

Week one league score: 284 24x.


----------



## bolo7735

Nice shooting Jason and Dewayne.


----------



## vabowdog

Shot a 298-34X at the club tonight...


Dewayne


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## centershot

Holly Smokes Dwayne! Good for you. Keep up the good work............is there record of anyone ever shooting a 300 w/ Trad legal gear?


----------



## centershot

Nice shooting also Jason - 5X round is awesome. I have only done that twice (both in practice) in all the rounds I have shot. 284 is awesome shooting - but Dwayne and these 290+ scores are off the chart.


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## J. Wesbrock

I agree. Dewayne's in a league of his own with those scores. It almost makes me want to go to Louisville just to watch the Sunday line.


----------



## ghound

ghound said:


> I was looking back and i have only shot this target once and that was in a competition, i had been shooting 4 months at the time and scored 181 with my English longbow shooting wooden arrows, i really hope i have improved since then lol


And i have improved, 236 who needs a center cut bow lol and i finished with 3 in the custard..


----------



## BLACK WOLF

Great shooting guys! :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


----------



## centershot

What target are you shooting there ghound? Are you just scoring it like the NFAA Single Spot only shooting 6 arrow ends?


----------



## ghound

centershot said:


> What target are you shooting there ghound? Are you just scoring it like the NFAA Single Spot only shooting 6 arrow ends?


It's a 40cm target that we shoot and its scored 3 arrow ends with a total of 60arrows.


----------



## Arron

Shot a 242 tonight at league. Only recurve and had loads of fun. Nothing but encouragement from the compound guys and made me feel right at home.


----------



## vabowdog

Leagues finally started tonight...shot a 97,98,96. The last game I shot 2-23s UUUGGGHHH....

291-35X



Dewayne


----------



## bfisherman11

Heck Dewayne, when I shot compound I thought a 290 was good. WOW, that is unreal shooting. Good job!

Bill


----------



## Arrowwood

League started out poorly, but 363/450 in practice today (fita face)


----------



## steve morley

I have an Indoor tourney next weekend and I've shot twice Indoors, non scoring just trying to figure what arrows to use on the new Vanquish, I settled on the 42# Elite plus limbs and X7 2115's, shooting nice groups but will be hard to shoot with confidence with so little practice, Kats is Coaching Indoors 4 days a week and as I watching the kids it leaves me no time to practice Indoors for myself. 

I'll have to change that for next season as we're hosting the IFAA World Indoors, March 2015


----------



## steve morley

I have an Indoor tourney next weekend and I've shot twice Indoors, non scoring just trying to figure what arrows to use on the new Vanquish riser, I've settled on the 43# Elite plus limbs (very smooth), X7 2315's, shooting nice groups but will be hard to shoot with confidence with so little practice, Kats is Coaching Indoors 4 days a week and as I watching the kids it leaves me no time to practice Indoors for myself. I'm not a strong 300 shooter, I was pretty decent (3rd in 07 worlds in Germany) but I had a serious TP breakdown 4-5 years ago and never shot these rounds with confidence since, cant be good at everything. lol

I'll have to change that for next season as we're hosting the IFAA World Indoors, March 2015


----------



## centershot

Shot a 261 with the Whip Longbow on Tuesday. Not too bad for me and a new bow. I did tend to shoot the left side of the target out - I need to retune to get things centered up a little better. Should have a new to me Bear Polar 32#@28" in today - will have to get out this weekend and see what I can do with that one. Fun stuff, I encourage everyone to get "in" and shoot a few arrows.


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## vabowdog

Dang....a 261 with a 1 pc. Longbow is a monster score....good shooting.



Dewayne


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## centershot

I cheated and used carbon arrows........I have enough problems without trying to get inconsistent wood arrows to shoot!


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## vabowdog

Shot in leagues tonight for competition 

291-31X


Dewayne


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## centershot

Keep it up Dewayne - that is fantastic shooting 31X! Folks, that means more that 1/2 of his arrows hit the X ring! The X ring is about 1 1/2" diameter.


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## vabowdog

Shot a 5 spot last night...had a tough time...really different focus than a single...shot a 282 with a complete miss.


Dewayne


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## centershot

Shot a round with the old 1965 Polar last night - ended up with a 261. I was shooting some full length 2013's w/125gr points but just could not get them centered up. That old bow is not cut very far past center and getting the arrow in close enough to the window is a challenge. I don't think I shot one arrow right of the white all night. I think if I can get that figured out I should be able to pick up a few points. I do have to say that shooting with that old bow is really neat - I imagine that setup would not be far off from what was used when it was brand new nearly 50 years ago.


----------



## centershot

I just took a run through the old posts in this thread - great information in here. Shows progression for quite a few of us.


----------



## ttop

Shot the state indoor(NAA not NFAA) last weekend. Shot a 441 on a 600 possible 18 meter fita round. if you look at average shot placement it would be around 240 NFAA. I was very pleased because was good enough to win and bump up the class(60+ master barebow recurve) record. Plus it was right on my practice scores so I was handling the pressure. All in all a very fun day


----------



## centershot

We had a little Vegas primer shoot this weekend at the local range - I shot a 339/450 (7.5 point per arrow average-red or better!) so-so score but still pretty fun. Bummer was that once again I was the only recurve in the building.............ugh-this is a lonely way to shoot. Anyway, Sunday I went back and shot a NFAA 300 round and scored a 265 which was closer to what I feel that I should be shooting. My third game was a 95 which is a very good game for me, now I just need to put 3 of those together.

FWIW for a little quickly put together shoot we had 3 World Champions, 3 National Champions and 5 or 6 State Champions shooting -All in the Open Pro Class but still it's always fun to shoot with that kind of talent. Rio Wild reminded us why he is the Champ with a 450 42X.........


----------



## vabowdog

Went to the club this evening to check on some thing I had changed and shot a practice round...


297-37X


Dewayne


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## centershot

Truly amazing Dewayne. Are you going to shoot in Vegas this weekend?


----------



## vabowdog

Center,no, I wish I was and I almost went but chickened out....I'm definitely going next year...I am going to Louisville in march...


Dewayne


----------



## centershot

Too bad, I think you would be very competitive. Maybe next year they will have a separate class for the recurves. Still great shooting, keep up the good work and give Alan some competition in Louisville.


----------



## RadishSoup

Hey fellas,

New shooter here; been shooting for about a month and a half. Wanted to give a 300 round a try but starting at only 15 yards 

Shot a 226-3x last week.

Many thanks to Viper1 for all the help and advice so far. 300 rounds are a ton of fun and I plan on doing them at least once a week to gauge my progress.


----------



## centershot

Good for you Radish - take a look back through this thread when you get a chance, there is some great info buried in here.


----------



## vabowdog

Went to club about 2 hours away yesterday and the VFAA Indoor Championship...had a good time shot really strong even though I felt like I wouldn't...kinda weird...felt like I had shot ALOT before I got there but I hadn't shot since Friday night league..


294-25X

I think its a new record..


Dewayne


----------



## centershot

Awesome! - Keep on rolling right on through Louisville!


----------



## Fredo456

Hey guys,

Just started shooting 300s (kinda) last Wednesday. "Kinda" because I shoot FITA targets, at 15m, not yards (and not 20 yet), and 3 arrows at a time (club rules).

I've been shooting since last August (1500 arrows between Aug. 16 and Dec. 3), and started shooting indoors this month. I changed my anchor, and moved back to 15m, so it could account for the not so good scores.

Anyway, I've been improving every time, so it's a positive: 171 (last Wednesday, no warm up), 177 (Monday. First few rounds were 5 arrows, and I tired much more quickly, so voluntarily returned to 3 arrows) and 187 (with 1x!) Wednesday.

It's fun, and useful, to have a benchmark to see the improvement.

Fred


----------



## centershot

Shot a 262 with the 40# Dorado and carbon arrows last night - Not too bad for me with my hunting bow. Fun to shoot a bow with some zip to it again.


----------



## highnoonhunter

Hey Centershot, I'm glad I found this post. I hope I'm not hijacking, but I'm wanting to get into shooting the indoor 20 yard since finding a club a couple counties over from me. 
I'm shooting 44-45# bows at the present time for my hunting bows and I'm comfortable shooting them for practice, but I think I may need a lighter weight for shooting so many arrows indoors.
Any suggestions??
Thanks for the info in advance!
Bobby


----------



## centershot

A lighter bow would be a good start. Longer arrows and high anchors tend to be pretty common also. Shooting really good scores takes great form and execution for all 60 of those shots - there are a few points to be had by equipment but mostly it is the shooter. Indoor shooting is a lot of fun and a great place to work on your form. Looking forward to seeing your progress on this thread.


----------



## highnoonhunter

Thanks centershot. 
Gonna have to get me a lighter bow and get me a target built and do lots of practice first.


----------



## centershot

How is that new rig working out?


----------



## Jeb-D.

Got 256 this weekend. Considering I started 2014 in the 230's, I'm pretty stoked about it.


----------



## Big Country

Jeb-D. said:


> Got 256 this weekend. Considering I started 2014 in the 230's, I'm pretty stoked about it.


Thats a pretty good jump! :darkbeer:

All the help in the world is great, but in the end the guy holding the bow has to put theory to practice. Great shooting! :thumbs_up


----------



## wseward

297-37X...Wow!

Congrats on the 256!


----------



## centershot

That is a darn good sighted/fingers/compound score - let alone a Trad legal round. Very nice.


----------



## xxxJakkxxx

centershot said:


> That is a darn good sighted/fingers/compound score - let alone a Trad legal round. Very nice.


 So are there specific rules that have to be held to for 'official' scores for traditional? Aside form distance and target size, of course.


----------



## centershot

Shot a 268 with my Dorado hunting/3D bow on Friday. Sure is fun to shoot in control of your shot.


----------



## centershot

xxxJakkxxx said:


> So are there specific rules that have to be held to for 'official' scores for traditional? Aside form distance and target size, of course.


Equipment rules? Here is a link to the rules for NFAA (Trad rules on pg. 32.): https://www.nfaausa.com/sites/default/files/Constitution-By-Laws-2013-2014_0.pdf


----------



## MGF

Last week I got cocky and thought I had a chance at the 280 I've been chasing...though I've only broke 270 a few times. I started good, got all excited and fell apart. LOL I shot until my fingers were about to fall off and couldn't bust 270.

I decided to give it all a rest and just work on some things that I know are giving me trouble. Today I'm shooting real tight and centered left/right but just a tad low. I changed my anchor point just a bit so I'm not too worried about being low. After I spend some time shooting what I'm doing now I'll try again.

What I'm really working on is adding about 10 points to my average. I think it's doable because I've been losing most of that ten points to lousy shots.


----------



## BLACK WOLF

MGF said:


> I think it's doable because I've been losing most of that ten points to lousy shots.


It's definitely doable...because once the mechanics of your shot are engrained...it becomes 90% a mental game.

If you can learn to focus and concentrate the same way every time...those bad shots should be gone.

Ray :shade:


----------



## centershot

280 is a lofty goal - but one that is on my radar also. Seems like I always manage a couple of 3's somewhere in my game that keep me from scoring really good. I try to shoot 23+ on every end, but usually end up closer to 22. Extra points start getting very difficult to come by when you get up over 260-270. When I'm over 270 I tend to get more of the 'just in's' instead of the 'just outs'. On the game I shot Friday my last end was a 21 - 4 of the 5 were just over the 5 line with 1 in, nice group but 1/2" too tall and 'just out'. Makes me want to put together a dedicated target rig with a point on a little (lot) closer to the target and see if I can find those extra 10 points - maybe this fall I will put something together. Fun stuff and a fantastic way to gage your personal progress. I encourage everyone to give it a try, you just might enjoy it and join us dreaded 'target shooters'. (It's ok, you don't have to tell anyone!)


----------



## steve morley

I was doing some video from 30y to check my Form i.e. conclusion and afterwards I thought I would shoot a 300 round to check consistency, normally I use the 36# Kaya limbs but used my normal 42# Field/3D setup, I had a nice X count and only dropped 4 points on first half and then got a little tired on second half and had to dig deep to regain composure but pretty happy with 287.


----------



## MGF

Good shooting Steve! I'd be tickled to death with a 287. LOL...if I ever get there.


----------



## steve morley

MGF said:


> Good shooting Steve! I'd be tickled to death with a 287. LOL...if I ever get there.


If I can build the mental and physical stamina to the right level I feel 290's is on the cards with this setup and shooting style.


----------



## BLACK WOLF

Anyone who shoots in the 280's on up with a barebow is an exceptional archer!! :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


----------



## drudd

Will somebody explain how you get those scores...do you shoot a number of arrows at different distances? A lot of us can benefit from setting a practice pattern, and I'm new to recurve and haven't figured it out yet. Thanks


----------



## vabowdog

All shots are shot at 20 yards....you shoot 12 ends of 5 arrows per end...most of these scores are from shooting a NFAA Blue White single spot...

The smallest circle is worth 5 points, the next ring is 4, then 3, then 2 the largest ring is worth 1 point..


So 60 arrows total...12 rounds of 5 max score is 25 per end a game is 4 ends max is 100 per game 

A good score is anything over 240


Dewayne


----------



## Azzurri

drudd said:


> Will somebody explain how you get those scores...do you shoot a number of arrows at different distances? A lot of us can benefit from setting a practice pattern, and I'm new to recurve and haven't figured it out yet. Thanks


Depends whether you do NFAA or USAA (WA/FITA). NFAA is indeed 12 ends x 5 arrows x 5 possible points per arrow = 300. Some big NFAA tournaments have 2 or 3 rounds for a 600 or 900. Shot at 20 yds.

USAA is usually 20 ends x 3 arrows x 10 possible points = 600. You pass 300 each 30 arrows. Some big USAA tournaments have 2 rounds for a 1200 perfect score. Shot at 18 m. Same amount of arrows but different dynamic and double score.

It's also worth pointing out that warmup for USAA is two practice ends (3 arrows). Even with the same number of practice ends you are allowed 10 arrows in NFAA, and many lower key events just seem to have open practice. I never quite feel warmed up starting USAA. Local NFAA by contrast I limit my practice to not shoot too much before it counts.

My two cents, shooting a similar amount of arrows to the upcoming competition is useful, but if you do both types the arrows per end changes. NFAA allows a groove to develop; USAA is ruthless precision.

The other big NFAA/USAA difference is targets, NFAA is 1 spot and 5 spot, USAA 1 spot and 3 spot; NFAA has 5 rings for 5 points, USAA has 10 rings (half of each NFAA ring) and a smaller x, for 10 points. USAA scores are usually lower as are their x counts. A compound shooter who does 300 50x in NFAA may score 290 in USAA, because 5 point linecutters become dropped points each time you get a 9.


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## centershot

Well all these pics of Jinkster shooting and scoring on the NFAA target motivated me to move indoors for a while and shoot a round (that and is 100 degrees outside). I started off so so with 2 warm up ends around 21-22 points each - then I said it's on and shot a 21. Ugh, get it together...next 2 ends were 25's and 4th a 24, then I started thinking about it, shot a 20 - ugh, get it together dummy (taking to myself), picked it up and managed to keep all 3 ends in the 90's. I ended up shooting a 278 w/15X's - a new personal best for me and while shooting my Dorado hunting/3d bow and arrows. Still managed to shoot a couple 3's to keep me from that 280 goal, but overall a pretty good round shot with decent form and control - I even let down once. (I had to post my score here because my wife just says 'oh, that's nice' ha ha.)


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## MGF

Fantastic!

I haven't been in the mood for a whole 300 round but, in shooting individual ends, I've finally been shooting more 25's and 24's. That's what I needed to get my average up.


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## [email protected]

Forty years ago I was shooting in the low 270s with a 47# Ben Pearson Hunter. Then I went compound and became a slightly better than average shooter until target panic stepped in. I dropped out of archery for more than 20 years. I started back up about 5 years ago, and target panic returned. So last month I decided to return to my roots. I bought a Samick Sage 50# bow on Ebay and started shooting 120 arrows a day. First at 14 yards, then I moved back to 20. My best score after being back a month is a 189. Nothing to write home about but my groups are tightening as my strength builds. I'm sure the first 200 is just around the corner, and then the goal of 240. After that we will just have to wait and see. Anyway it feels good to be back, even if those three and four inch groups don't come often enough.


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## centershot

Welcome back, work on that form and the scores will come.


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## BLACK WOLF

[email protected] said:


> Forty years ago I was shooting in the low 270s with a 47# Ben Pearson Hunter.


IMO...the most important aspect to any sport after the fundamentals are learned...is the mental game.

Both form and aiming are pretty simple in and by themselves.

It's executing both of them together at the perfect time while being able to concentrate without any distractions is where the real challenge lies.

You use to shoot in the 270's...so that's definitely an indication that your form and aiming technique were being executed properly.

You just need to primarily work on the mind game...and The Blank Bale and The Bridge can help with that.

Ray :shade:


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## jbw59

Shot longbow, wood arrows, shot a 222 and a 234 today.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

subscribed


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## jbw59

Longbow with woodies. Shot a 231 today. Apparently I've reached a plateau. It's all concentration. Form ok but a bad release now and then. Out of 12 ends today, only one with all 5 shots inside the 4 ring (5,4,4,4,4). Had one end with 3 X's then a 4 and 3. Had a couple of 0nes and twos today too. I'm getting there but now a new challenge. Changing spines and tip weight on arrows. Going to something lighter to generate a little more speed on my 30# bow. Just finished the 4th coat of poly. Tips and nocks, bareshaft tuning next.


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## MGF

jbw59 said:


> Longbow with woodies. Shot a 231 today. Apparently I've reached a plateau. It's all concentration. Form ok but a bad release now and then. Out of 12 ends today, only one with all 5 shots inside the 4 ring (5,4,4,4,4). Had one end with 3 X's then a 4 and 3. Had a couple of 0nes and twos today too. I'm getting there but now a new challenge. Changing spines and tip weight on arrows. Going to something lighter to generate a little more speed on my 30# bow. Just finished the 4th coat of poly. Tips and nocks, bareshaft tuning next.


Good shooting but why do you want something faster on your 30# bow?


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## grantmac

jbw59 said:


> Longbow with woodies. Shot a 231 today. Apparently I've reached a plateau. It's all concentration. Form ok but a bad release now and then. Out of 12 ends today, only one with all 5 shots inside the 4 ring (5,4,4,4,4). Had one end with 3 X's then a 4 and 3. Had a couple of 0nes and twos today too. I'm getting there but now a new challenge. Changing spines and tip weight on arrows. Going to something lighter to generate a little more speed on my 30# bow. Just finished the 4th coat of poly. Tips and nocks, bareshaft tuning next.


You ever tried a form-master? Nothing else I know provide better feedback towards correcting the release.

-Grant


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## jbw59

MGF said:


> Good shooting but why do you want something faster on your 30# bow?


Need something a little faster with less drag so I can shoot a 600 round without aiming at the clouds. Flatter trajectory.


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## drudd

Are these scores mentioned here using the 12 ends of 5 arrows each all at 20 yds? I've just started and am using the "Freeman" round which starts at 10, then 15, then 20 yd shots.


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## centershot

Yes the scores posted are from the NFAA 300 round, 60 arrows at 20 yards. Freeman rounds are a lot of fun also.


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## [email protected]

Forty years after putting down my recurve and picking it up again the first week in June, I started out in the low 160s and stayed there for a while. Then in the past 2 weeks the bow begins to draw easier. My second round today was a 197. Strength and form are slowly coming back. Not sure I will ever shoot another 270+, but I'm seeing steady improvement in holding time and form. I expect a 200 any day, and then it's on to 240, which I judge to be a good barebow score.


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## jbw59

[email protected] said:


> Forty years after putting down my recurve and picking it up again the first week in June, .


Good for you. Enjoy the ride.


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## DJTJR

For those of you shooting 280 plus do you setup your bows to get a point on on the x or on a ring value so you can aim at the same point at all times? If so what do you do to achieve that? Heavy slow arrows? High nock points? String walking? Etc... I was averaging in the mid 240s a few years ago with a light one piece longbow and think I am a better shooter now but if I could get a point on on the x I think I could eliminate a bit of lost vertical points from having to pick a spot on a wall about 16 inches with my gaps below the target. 
Thanks


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## Corene1

I am not at 280 yet but am knocking on the door. I don't change anything I shoot it like I would shoot any tournament. I have a 45 yard point on so I shoot right at a 1 inch gap at 20 yards. My best with a compound was 290 shooting non sight with fingers . My Best with my recurve is 272.


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## itbeso

Corene1 said:


> I am not at 280 yet but am knocking on the door. I don't change anything I shoot it like I would shoot any tournament. I have a 45 yard point on so I shoot right at a 1 inch gap at 20 yards. My best with a compound was 290 shooting non sight with fingers . My Best with my recurve is 272.


Dang, Corene!!!


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## MGF

DJTJR said:


> For those of you shooting 280 plus do you setup your bows to get a point on on the x or on a ring value so you can aim at the same point at all times? If so what do you do to achieve that? Heavy slow arrows? High nock points? String walking? Etc... I was averaging in the mid 240s a few years ago with a light one piece longbow and think I am a better shooter now but if I could get a point on on the x I think I could eliminate a bit of lost vertical points from having to pick a spot on a wall about 16 inches with my gaps below the target.
> Thanks


I'm not shooting 280 yet either (265 with the occasional bump over 270) but I think a lot (I can't say how many) of the serious indoor shooters who are shooting above 280 set their indoor bow up to shoot about point on at 20. I think Dewayne Martin said his indoor bow is point on at 21. He's shooting over 290...that's one.

How to get it there? All of the above...long arrows, high anchors, high knocking points, arrow weight...and/or string walking in classes that allow it.

The only bow I shoot is my hunting bow and I'm not sure I have it set up real well for any target shooting. I'm shooting a nearly full length arrow at about 12 gpp. I'm point on at about 25 yards. That gives me about an 8 inch gap at 20. I think I lose a few points to the gap. Much past 20 and my heavy arrow is dropping pretty fast so I can't hit much unless I know the exact distance.

Point being that for indoor, I would get rig of the 8 inch gap (and other changes) and for 3-d, I would get a lighter (flatter shooting) arrow.


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## Corene1

itbeso said:


> Dang, Corene!!!


 Those are the good days when everything just goes right! You don't want to see the bad days when those 3 little fingers in the back refuse to cooperate!
I shoot a Hoyt Horizon with 720 carbon limbs at 36 pounds with Easton carbon Epic shafts 600 spine , 6.4 grains per inch cut to 29 inches and a 100 grain tip, 3 fingers under with a high anchor. I always shoot the same form and gap no matter what tournament format, so my mind never gets confused on what it is seeing in the sight picture. Just the diameter of the arrow can change how the gap looks for me. When I first started I was shooting the Easton carbon one and my point on was 48 yards and I couldn't figure out why it was longer than when I shot my compound several years back . Then it dawned on me, I shot 2213 aluminums back then a fatter arrow makes the point on different so I went to the carbon Epics . just a little bigger in diameter and there it was 45 yard point on and it tightened the gap a little . Just right for me!


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## jbw59

Longbow, woodies, shot a personal best of 241 with 10 X's today. 119 first half 122 second half. 5 X's each half. I hope I can keep this up on a consistent basis.


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## wseward

Wow...congrats. Wood arrows must add a new level of challenge.


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## Joe Hohmann

After 9 months into archery, my best score so far is 235...HOWEVER, yesterday was the first time ALL 5 arrows landed in the bullseye for a perfect score of 25...4 of them in the X. Since I don't use a sight or aiming marker, I realize this was 50% luck (my worst round of 12 that session was only a 16).


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## jbw59

Back down to 231 today. Dropped 10 points from the other day. Shouldn't have taken a day off. My wife had to go and have a birthday. Ok, Ok, it wasn't her fault


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## centershot

271 Last night with the Dorado Hunting/3D setup - shooting it better than my target setups, maybe I'd better add Target/Hunting/3D to the description. First time I picked up the bow in about 10 days - started off a bit slow with an 86, then an 88 and finished very strong with a 97. Shot a very nice pattern on the target but was just a bit above center, took me until the last game to finally adjust my gap and stick with it - it showed.


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## centershot

I kind of forgot how fun shooting these 300 games was.........shot 2 more games this weekend a 268 Friday and this morning a 275 (all 3 games in the 90's). Not sure what is going on but I have been shooting some of the my best scores ever here in the last couple weeks. 278, 271, 268 and 275 are the last 4, that is about a ten point average better than last year, and shooting them with my 40# Dorado and carbon arrows - big gaps and all. Hope it lasts........will do wonders for my confidence for hunting season.


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## vabowdog

The 300 round is all about doing every single step of your shot sequence the very same 60 times...if you start off wrong then itwill end up bad...I set my bow up to be point on at 21 yards...I hold at the bottom of the 5 ring where the blue and white meet..its a good contrast in color and really easy to pick up..

Consistency and patience...my shot sequence last 8-9 seconds once my hand touches the string...I'm at full draw aiming for 6-8 seconds...patience.


Dewayne Martin


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## wseward

centershot, congrats on the new scores.

varbowdog, 6-8 seconds of aiming seems like a long time...yet is sure does work for you. Thanx for sharing interesting info.


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## jbw59

Two personal bests in a week. Last Saturday a 241. today shot a 245. 119 first half, 126 second half. Longbow, woodies.


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## centershot

vabowdog said:


> The 300 round is all about doing every single step of your shot sequence the very same 60 times...if you start off wrong then itwill end up bad...I set my bow up to be point on at 21 yards...I hold at the bottom of the 5 ring where the blue and white meet..its a good contrast in color and really easy to pick up..
> 
> Consistency and patience...my shot sequence last 8-9 seconds once my hand touches the string...I'm at full draw aiming for 6-8 seconds...patience.
> 
> 
> Dewayne Martin


I'm going to put together a target oriented rig this winter and get back to shooting leagues. Lately I have just been shooting my outdoor 3D/Hunting bow indoors because it is so hot outside. It would be nice to get a point on at least on the target, mine is now at the bottom of the 1 ring with 2 NFAA targets stacked or about 24". With some lighter limbs and longer arrows and maybe a tweak to my anchor position I hope to have the point on around the 1 ring or a little less on the target face that I'm shooting at. I don't want to mess with it now as most of the Archery Hunts in Idaho start the end of August and run through September. At any rate it shooting a 300 round sure is a quick reminder about how important form is on each and every shot.


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## vabowdog

Center, I shoot a 37# draw with a 33" Carbon express linejammer with 200 grains upfront...about 155 fps and a PO of 21 yards...it allows me to hold in the bottom of the 5 ring...hits about an inch high.

Form is everything when shooting dots...along with a strong mental game.


Dewayne


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## centershot

Dewayne, I have seen a couple pics of your anchor - it is nice and high and looks to be quite solid. When I get anchored that high my thumb gets in the way when turned down and making a C around my jaw. Turning it up is really weird and hard to be consistent with. What do you do with your thumb?


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## vabowdog

centershot said:


> Dewayne, I have seen a couple pics of your anchor - it is nice and high and looks to be quite solid. When I get anchored that high my thumb gets in the way when turned down and making a C around my jaw. Turning it up is really weird and hard to be consistent with. What do you do with your thumb?





My thumb is tucked up under and touches the tip of my pinky finger..just the tip not way up on it...if you go way umpteen your stressing the other three fingers.


Hope this helps,


Dewayne


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## centershot

I gave that thumb/pinky finger along with raising my nocking point 1/8" to 7/8" Above the rest and shot a 277 17X round. Those changes reduced my gap at the target by about 4" at 20 yards - gap is still about 20", but better than 24" - hopefully in target trim I will be able to hold on the bottom of the 1 ring.


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## vabowdog

Center every little bit helps...a longer arrow,a few more pounds, these almost always a way to reduce your gaps...if only by a little.



Dewayne


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## MGF

centershot said:


> I gave that thumb/pinky finger along with raising my nocking point 1/8" to 7/8" Above the rest and shot a 277 17X round. Those changes reduced my gap at the target by about 4" at 20 yards - gap is still about 20", but better than 24" - hopefully in target trim I will be able to hold on the bottom of the 1 ring.


If I don't hurry, you're going to get that 280 before I do.

Good shooting!


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## centershot

If I could get through a round without a couple of stupid 3's I'd make it. Just a little distraction and whamo 280 ain't happening. I really need to get better about letting down. I did like what Dewayne said in one of his videos about making sure everything is right or don't shoot. Not a lot of room for error when your averaging over a 23 per end already! This stuff is a lot of fun when your shooting with good control and confidence.


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## Battle Duck

Hello everyone! First post from a newbie 

Three weeks ago I bought my first bow from local market, Crosman Sentinel small recurve. It was very cheap (50 bucks) youth bow, but I just want something to get start with. I use cheap aluminium arrows that are probably too heavy for my tiny bow, but they feel ok to shoot from short distances. I have practise every day since I bought the bow, first 5 yards, 10 yards etc... And today I shot 20x3 arrows to NFAA 40 cm target, scoring 185. It is nothing compared to other folks in this thread, but man it was way better than I expected! No sights only bow, arrow and me. 

I have already ordered a new bow, Sebastian Flute 68" 34# take down recurve and some Easton arrows, can't wait to have it. I am totally hooked to shooting and will practise a lot to be good at some day! Maybe joining a local club too even though I'm kind of loner and like to do things with my own way... In a same time I understand that I might build up some problems in my technique without experienced help. Oh well, have to think about it.

Cheers


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## fieldnfeathers

Battle Duck said:


> Hello everyone! First post from a newbie
> 
> Three weeks ago I bought my first bow from local market, Crosman Sentinel small recurve. It was very cheap (50 bucks) youth bow, but I just want something to get start with. I use cheap aluminium arrows that are probably too heavy for my tiny bow, but they feel ok to shoot from short distances. I have practise every day since I bought the bow, first 5 yards, 10 yards etc... And today I shot 20x3 arrows to NFAA 40 cm target, scoring 185. It is nothing compared to other folks in this thread, but man it was way better than I expected! No sights only bow, arrow and me.
> 
> I have already ordered a new bow, Sebastian Flute 68" 34# take down recurve and some Easton arrows, can't wait to have it. I am totally hooked to shooting and will practise a lot to be good at some day! Maybe joining a local club too even though I'm kind of loner and like to do things with my own way... In a same time I understand that I might build up some problems in my technique without experienced help. Oh well, have to think about it.
> 
> Cheers


Welcome to the forums.


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## centershot

All you have to do is look at the first few pages of this thread to see where I started......low 200's. It's a progression that only comes with experience and good form. Fun stuff and every point is earned.


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## centershot

Weather was nasty last night so we moved things indoors for out Tuesday Night shooting. Shot a 277 16X - I think that 280 mark just might fall this winter!


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## Battle Duck

centershot said:


> All you have to do is look at the first few pages of this thread to see where I started......low 200's. It's a progression that only comes with experience and good form. Fun stuff and every point is earned.


Yeah, I noticed you have done a great improve since this thread started. Congrats it must have been hard work!

Today I shot 10 yards 60 arrow, scoring 250. I think I will try 15 yards next, and then 20 yards again with my new bow (still waiting) after I get used to it since it is way longer (45" vs 68") and 10 pounds heavier. I hope that I'm able to break 200 points from 20 yards pretty soon!

e: thanks fieldnfeathers


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## Battle Duck

Battle Duck said:


> I hope that I'm able to break 200 points from 20 yards pretty soon!


Well didn't need a new gear, 205 today and four X. It was kind of challenging because it was getting dark, but today my form and stance that I have changed a bit (more open) felt really good. 

I guess with only three weeks practise, totally self learning, 50 bucks wallmart bow (no sights) and with arrows that are not spined at all for the bow, 205 is a good score. I'm looking to improve a lot in the near future, lets see how long it takes to break 250. Maybe years but thats ok.  I love this NFAA 20 yard scoring, it is nice to have a some kind of benchmark!


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## Azzurri

centershot said:


> Dewayne, I have seen a couple pics of your anchor - it is nice and high and looks to be quite solid. When I get anchored that high my thumb gets in the way when turned down and making a C around my jaw. Turning it up is really weird and hard to be consistent with. What do you do with your thumb?


My two cents if you do a side face anchor with your thumb bent and tucked down alongside your index then it's almost like a shelf to plant under your cheek. Which is what I do for trad, and with a shelf tab for OR.

I don't understand using the thumb along the face as additional anchor because it seems to get caught or affect doing expansion or release right. You really want hand moving not hand static, if it's static you're usually opening your fingers and almost collapsing instead of expanding and having the string come off the fingers. If your hand is framing your face I don't see how the release moves.


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## Joe Hohmann

It has taken me over 4,000 arrows at 20 yards to get to a 241 score. Now, at 30 and 40 yds, I'm happy to hit anywhere on the target.


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## Azzurri

vabowdog said:


> Center every little bit helps...a longer arrow,a few more pounds, these almost always a way to reduce your gaps...if only by a little.
> 
> Dewayne


Unless you could stand a lot more DW, my experience is DW at least temporarily drops your scores. You have to work harder and working harder produces more shanks and tired shots at the end. If you ever get the hang of it, your shots get flatter and maybe you're better at the end, but at first it's regression.

But I agree about the arrows. In a gap thread a while back I was using pretty short arrows and people suggested among other things, longer arrows. I played around yesterday at 20 with the longer ones I use for indoor OR shooting (with an extended clicker), and the gap shrunk. Once I got the feel for those arrows through the trad bow, I felt like I was shooting better period. The spine's not much different, it's not a tuning issue, I don't have to pull more weight or compromise form. It's just a longer arrow.

So I'd say if your arrows aren't real long already, try that.


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## centershot

Always compromises, especially getting a comfortable/repeatable high anchor. More weight will rip the string from your fingers and show less error that way, but you have to be able to hold it back. I think this is what makes it so much fun and frustrating at the same time.


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## centershot

Fired off a 271 yesterday - had one awful end of a whopping 16 points - wow, brain fart on that one but pulled things back together and finished strong. That was a quick reminder that it's not automatic and each and every shot requires your full attention and good form.


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## vabowdog

Shot a Vegas round today shot a 300 round on a single spot and shot a 287 then shot another back to back and it was a 286... The Vegas colors are a bit tougher getting use to than the blue white face.

Dewayne Martin


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## centershot

I shot a Vegas round also on Friday (after my NFAA 300 round) - cheated a little and shot 5 arrow ends to get it over with quicker - shot 258/300 if I remember correctly. Not too bad but I was really getting tired by the end shooting my Dorado.


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## Corene1

WOW! Those are some amazing scores for the 40 CM face shooting barebow ! That is the gold, red , blue, black , and white face that scores 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 ,5 ,4 ,3, 2, 1 , Correct?


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## vabowdog

Corene1 said:


> WOW! Those are some amazing scores for the 40 CM face shooting barebow ! That is the gold, red , blue, black , and white face that scores 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 ,5 ,4 ,3, 2, 1 , Correct?
> View attachment 2026107




Yes, that's how you score...


Dewayne


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## bhitman

Dewayne is that with bb or off the shelf either way those are huge scores


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## centershot

That's the Vegas target - I figure if I shoot 8.5 average per arrow (red or better), that's pretty good for me. Dewayne has been shooting fantastic lately - he is averaging 9.5+ per arrow!


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## Corene1

So will you be going to Las Vegas this year. I saw that the bare bow championship round was won with a 273-286-277 in 2014 That will put you right in the thick of things for sure! I am thinking of going just to watch it , it has been a long time since I was there. late 90's at the Sands convention center. It looks to be a huge event now.


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## BarneySlayer

centershot said:


> I gave that thumb/pinky finger along with raising my nocking point 1/8" to 7/8" Above the rest and shot a 277 17X round. Those changes reduced my gap at the target by about 4" at 20 yards - gap is still about 20", but better than 24" - hopefully in target trim I will be able to hold on the bottom of the 1 ring.


Darn. You've come a long way with dedication and practice. It's encouraging! I've slowly began doing scoring rounds for practice, and the idea of breaking 270 is attractive, but the realization is that you have to shoot 60 arrows in a row without blowing it... congratulations, and good luck clocking 280. I have no doubt you'll get there,


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## vabowdog

bhitman said:


> Dewayne is that with bb or off the shelf either way those are huge scores




Bill, it's my indoor rig...elevated rest,plunger and 12" stab...


Dewayne


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## vabowdog

Corene1 said:


> So will you be going to Las Vegas this year. I saw that the bare bow championship round was won with a 273-286-277 in 2014 That will put you right in the thick of things for sure! I am thinking of going just to watch it , it has been a long time since I was there. late 90's at the Sands convention center. It looks to be a huge event now.





Yes, I plan on Veags this year...I've seen the score from last year which is a big score...if you come definitely shoot we need all the numbers we can get.


Dewayne Martin


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## Battle Duck

241 with new bow and arrows. Huge improve from 205, but this new SF Axiom plus riser and limbs and easton apollo arrows felt too easy to shoot! Just wow what a difference to "wallmart bow" and the cheap heavy aluminium arrows. 

Still hard to understand 270-290 scores... but i will get there, no matter how long it takes.


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## centershot

Good for you BD - only problem is, now you have eliminated the equipment excuse! Keep after it, time to up your goal a bit - now your looking for 250+.


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## Battle Duck

centershot said:


> Good for you BD - only problem is, now you have eliminated the equipment excuse!


Haha that's true, no more excuses! I believe i can hit 250 pretty soon, or at least hope i could do it. After that i might join the local club and take a part to some competition!


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## centershot

Join anyway - it's a great place to hang with like minded folks.


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## vabowdog

Shot a Vegas round this evening 30 arrows on a Vegas 1 spot...283....wasn't real happy either great or sucky...shot 3-30s and 3-26s...normally I shoot 28,29 very few 30 but never a 26.

All or nothing


Dewayne


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## Corene1

vabowdog said:


> Yes, I plan on Veags this year...I've seen the score from last year which is a big score...if you come definitely shoot we need all the numbers we can get.
> 
> 
> Dewayne Martin


 I have been thinking about this all day at work. So if I was to shoot Vegas this year, What class would I be in. ILF bow with 12 inch stabilizer non sight no clicker. The last time I shot it I was shooting a compound in bowhunter division. I would also shoot the 40 cm single target not that yucky 3 spot triangle target. I will read the rules tonight. I think I read earlier that you shoot ILF bow and a 12 inch stabilizer. but do you string walk or just use the high anchor and long arrows to get your point on close to 20.


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## grantmac

You'd be in Barebow with the compounds. That is the only non-sight division at Vegas right now.

-Grant


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## vabowdog

Corene, there's only one non sighted division right now in Vegas....this is why we need you to come and shoot....if we can get 30-40 traditional guys then we can make our case about our own class...

Please come you'll have a great time...



Dewayne Martin


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## Corene1

vabowdog said:


> Corene, there's only one non sighted division right now in Vegas....this is why we need you to come and shoot....if we can get 30-40 traditional guys then we can make our case about our own class...
> 
> Please come you'll have a great time...
> 
> I looked into the class a little closer last night and it looks to be a completely combined class. Male and female, compound and recurve. I am going to glue up a bunch of targets this evening and do a little work on my other bow and see what happens. I have a Hoyt Horizon riser and a set of 26 pound SF carbon premium limbs with 30 inch Easton carbon epics at 600 spine and start doing some tinkering to get my point on a little closer to where it should be for indoor shooting. I shoot a 45 yard point on right now for all my shooting but I have seen that a lot of people tighten up their gap for indoors with less poundage and longer arrows. This will be a first for me.


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## carlosii

SCS said:


> NFAA indoor target at 20 yards, 12 rounds of 5 arrows, scored 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from the center out.
> I shot again last night. Boy, that sucked! Couldn't pull through the shot at all.
> Steve


Whew! I was reading through this thread and thought, man, I couldn't shoot those kind of scores on the five spot....Thanks for clearing that up...That's what I get for thinkin'.


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## centershot

I think most of us use the single spot. I know I still manage to fire off a 3 once in a while and even though it's tough on a score, it's still better than a zero!


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## BarneySlayer

vabowdog said:


> Corene, there's only one non sighted division right now in Vegas....this is why we need you to come and shoot....if we can get 30-40 traditional guys then we can make our case about our own class...
> 
> Please come you'll have a great time...
> Dewayne Martin


There's an interesting idea  You mean I can have fun even if I SUCK? Don't really like Las Vegas, but it sounds like a cool gathering. It's fun being the odd balls


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## Corene1

Well I went ahead and made reservations at the Southgate hotel. I figured if I waited it would fill up . There is a group deal they are offering for the tournament , the code is on the NFAA site or if you call them direct just mention the Vegas Shoot. 4 nights ,King bed, $336 dollars. It will be fun, at least that is what I am told. Hope it doesn't work out like this guys adventure!


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## rattus58

Corene1 said:


> Hope it doesn't work out like this guys adventure!
> View attachment 2032981


Borrowed your picture.... sent it over to A&E... thank you.... I'm an avid skin diver... so this has meaning... :laugh:


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## Corene1

Sorry , It should read Southpoint for the hotel. They are the tournament host.


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## steve morley

Some new (cheap) 32# SF Axiom+ limbs came today, I set them up on the Moon riser to try them out, a quick basic 20y tune (had to wind them up for the C1 660's)and shot 287, I thought I might have some release issues dropping 10# but I was pretty happy, roughly the same scores as with the 42# CV limbs but it did feel easier to float on aim and expand. 

I think end of the day I will keep my normal Indoor limbs (36# Kaya Tropics) but these 65Euro limbs I sure will be used often for Form training.


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## grantmac

steve morley said:


> Some new (cheap) 32# SF Axiom+ limbs came today, I set them up on the Moon riser to try them out, a quick basic 20y tune (had to wind them up for the C1 660's)and shot 287, I thought I might have some release issues dropping 10# but I was pretty happy, roughly the same scores as with the 42# CV limbs but it did feel easier to float on aim and expand.
> 
> I think end of the day I will keep my normal Indoor limbs (36# Kaya Tropics) but these 65Euro limbs I sure will be used often for Form training.


Damn Steve, there goes my "need" to buy an expensive set of lightweight limbs for indoor 

-Grant


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## Corene1

OK so , today is the start to Vegas. I took my 25 Inch Hoyt Horizon and put a set of medium SF Premium plus carbon limbs on it with a 14 strand dynaflight 97 string. I wound up with 29 pounds on the fingers shooting 29 1/2 inch Easton carbon Epics 600 spine with 125 grain points. First time doing string walking , I wound up 1/2 inch below the nock and did a lot of tuning . I finally got it down the middle and wound up shooting 180 arrows in the process. Started averaging about 24 to 26 points an end, a couple a little higher also a couple a little lower, Darned fingers again! Here's the daily damage.


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## steve morley

Corene1 said:


> OK so , today is the start to Vegas. I took my 25 Inch Hoyt Horizon and put a set of medium SF Premium plus carbon limbs on it with a 14 strand dynaflight 97 string. I wound up with 29 pounds on the fingers shooting 29 1/2 inch Easton carbon Epics 600 spine with 125 grain points. First time doing string walking , I wound up 1/2 inch below the nock and did a lot of tuning . I finally got it down the middle and wound up shooting 180 arrows in the process. Started averaging about 24 to 26 points an end, a couple a little higher also a couple a little lower, Darned fingers again! Here's the daily damage.
> 
> View attachment 2036236


If they're all your holes weaken your plunger spring a little.


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## Corene1

Yes, those are all my shots for the day. I did lighten the plunger and got them going down the middle finally. I was messing with bow weight and tip weight and nocking point at the same time so it was a gradual movement towards the center and a clean arrow, one adjustment at a time. Finally got the bare shafts and the fletched shafts within an inch of each other, so I am calling that good for awhile. Now to concentrate on the form. I am sure there will be more adjusting in the future though. I am thinking of increasing the poundage a bit to help my release. 29 pounds on the fingers doesn't seem to come off as clean as the 36 I am used to shooting.


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## centershot

No 3's! Swapped out the limbs on my Dorado to my 35#'ers and got out the 2013's and shot a 278. Tied my personal best but first time ever that I have shot a round without a 3.


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## vabowdog

Good shooting centershot....a little at a time.


Dewayne


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## High Plains

I deicided to take the plunge and start shooting 300 rounds to get ready for indoor season. I shot a 233 Saturday morning. I learned a lot about keeping my concentration and letting my mind wander and plan on shooting a round each week, weather permitting of course.

Jeff


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## jimdugan

It's all your fault,and now is will be costing me money. I read all 38 pages of this thread and could not stand not knowing how I would do shooting a 300 round. I went out this morning and set a target up at 15yds(as long as I can shoot in my back yard). I have been shooting 3to4 days a week with my wheelie bow all during June and August getting ready for deer season here in Nevada so my shooting form is pretty good and my muscles are all loose. Started shooting my PSE 35# recurve 10days ago. So I know there are going to be some who will not beleive me when I say that I shoot a 250 with 8x,s this morning even though it was only at 15 yds. I am now thinking about joining a Carson City,Nevada club and trying a indoor league just for kicks and giggles.-----jim


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## centershot

Good shooting Jim! That is a good round for sure. That extra 5 yards will probably take a few points off of your score but you should still be in that 230-240 range which shows that things are starting to click. I say by all means join that club and shoot a league or two. They are a great place to shoot with like minded folks and get out of the house. You will probably find a new level of pressure shooting around others, but once you get used to it - your shooting will be better for it.


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## MGF

I believe you Jim and, I agree with Centershot...an extra 5 yards is going to shave some points off. Maybe quite a few points.


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## ranchoarcher

To get an estimate of the number of points it would be at 20 take the score and divide it by 4. There are four five yard increments. Multiply it by 3 for the portion shot at. Comes out to 187. Not an exact science but cutting the distance down really matters.


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## Battle Duck

Battle Duck said:


> 241 with new bow and arrows. Huge improve from 205, but this new SF Axiom plus riser and limbs and easton apollo arrows felt too easy to shoot! Just wow what a difference to "wallmart bow" and the cheap heavy aluminium arrows.
> 
> Still hard to understand 270-290 scores... but i will get there, no matter how long it takes.


New personal (backyard) record is now 271. I shot it with stringwalk method, looks like it is the most accurate and consistent way (at least) for a newbie like me. I did some shooting with a sight (Shibuya dual click) and 30" long rod also but the scores were just slightly better... I throw them away. Guess I need to practise more since it looks like I'm focusing too much to the sight and not the form. It is getting cold here in Finland so maybe it is time to join the club and get a chance to shoot inside track. 

Keep on shooti'n!

BD


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## CraigA

I have been reading this thread with great interest and want to give the NFAA indoor target round a go. 

However I can only get a maximum distance of 6 meters (6.56 yards) (I shoot in the shed for blank bale practice) Is there any way I can calculate / convert a 6.56 yards score to 20 yards? I have read about score comparisons for for 10 and 15 yards, can 6.56 yards be roughly estimated?


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## Viper1

Craig - 

Mathematically? Yes. Realistically? No. 
Even a solid 240 shooter will be slapping arrows all day long at 5 - 6 yards.

Viper1 out.


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## CraigA

Viper1 said:


> Craig -
> Mathematically? Yes. Realistically? No.
> Even a solid 240 shooter will be slapping arrows all day long at 5 - 6 yards.
> Viper1 out.


Thank you for the reply.

Was only going to shoot 2 or 3 arrows at a time. Instead of just shooting 20 yards NFAA now and then, I could have then shot in the shed once a week and tried to improve on my previous score. Oh well, worth a try asking. Plan B, how to get ten yards from the shed.

Plug for your book, "Shooting the Stickbow" great resource, thanks Viper.


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## steve morley

CraigA said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> Was only going to shoot 2 or 3 arrows at a time.


This wont work either as the whole concept of 300 round and 5 arrow ends is to test your mental stamina/discipline. I'm sure if I shot this round as 3 arrow ends I could add at least 5 points to my final score.You would be better shooting the 5 spot face at close range to save damaging your arrows.


----------



## CraigA

steve morley said:


> This wont work either as the whole concept of 300 round and 5 arrow ends is to test your mental stamina/discipline. I'm sure if I shot this round as 3 arrow ends I could add at least 5 points to my final score.You would be better shooting the 5 spot face at close range to save damaging your arrows.


Good point, thanks Steve.


----------



## Battle Duck

Looks like I need to shoot 530-550 Fita 600 round to be competitive here in Finland. So I guess it means about 280-290 in NFAA 300? Still work to do... I havent shot Fita 600 round yet but will do it pretty soon.


----------



## steve morley

Battle Duck said:


> Looks like I need to shoot 530-550 Fita 600 round to be competitive here in Finland. So I guess it means about 280-290 in NFAA 300? Still work to do... I havent shot Fita 600 round yet but will do it pretty soon.


Battle Duck next March will you come to IFAA world Indoors in Parnu?


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## Battle Duck

steve morley said:


> Battle Duck next March will you come to IFAA world Indoors in Parnu?


Steve, at the moment I'm just a backyard shooter who never compete or even have a club membership. I can consider myself as a beginner, since I started to shoot this summer (first with cheap bow) and self learning since then by almost everyday practise. I bought a better bow (SF Axiom+) about one month ago and after some practise my 20 yard scores went up dramatically. I don't even know anyone else how shoot a bow, but we have a local club in my hometown and I am thinking that maybe I should join. 

By the way, I bought my new bow from Tomi Poikolainen's archery shop, he gave me few tips and tuned the bow. Tomi is olympic gold metalist from 1980 Moscow, he was only eighteen back then! I don't remember it though, because I was born one week after that day. 

E: I've never been in Parnu (but many times in Tallinn) so of course it would be very nice to see


----------



## steve morley

Battle duck if you're not intimidated by the fact that it's a world champs (nobody should) you can learn as much in a week there as you could in 6 months alone in your backyard, all the World/Euro tourneys I attended have always turned out to be a very positive learning experience for me. Hood club in Helsinki has a number of World/Euro champs, even a few shooting sessions there and pick up some good tips could help you get you to a better level. :thumbs_up

Shooting is FUN, shooting with others is more FUN :wink:


----------



## centershot

Shot 403/450 on a Vegas 450 round this morning. Felt pretty good. Still struggling with my anchor being super solid and repeatable but overall a good round for me.


----------



## Battle Duck

steve morley said:


> Battle duck if you're not intimidated by the fact that it's a world champs (nobody should) you can learn as much in a week there as you could in 6 months alone in your backyard, all the World/Euro tourneys I attended have always turned out to be a very positive learning experience for me. Hood club in Helsinki has a number of World/Euro champs, even a few shooting sessions there and pick up some good tips could help you get you to a better level. :thumbs_up
> 
> Shooting is FUN, shooting with others is more FUN :wink:


Yeah, I just sent an email to a local club that I like to join, now waiting for their answer. Lets see how everything goes, specially I'm interested to see are my nerves going to kill me in the competitions. I have long history from sports and I've been compete in national level many times, but this is totally new game for me!


----------



## centershot

Shot another Vegas 450 round on Sunday 403/450 again - not complaining.


----------



## centershot

League night started last night - it is a Vegas 450 round until Vegas is over. Shot a 362/450 - the waiting between rounds killed me, could not get any rhythm going. Oh well - left plenty of room for improvement!


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## Azzurri

Work on a routine. In well run FITA shoots I like to sit down and have some gatorade between rounds, get up x seconds before my line, make sure I get to the line on time.

FITA is a little harder because of 3 arrows. Might try practicing just 3 arrows some days to get ready to shoot that many on league night (or some other FITA style tourney).


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## centershot

Yup, definitely need to 'practice' waiting around.....shooting just 3 arrows then waiting, then shooting 3 is rough, but that's what we do until Vegas is over then the NFAA targets come out (oh, I love to see those come around!).


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## Azzurri

All I did until our FITA indoor state was NFAA indoor 300s. Not having 5 arrows to find a groove, and then big breaks between ABCD CDAB lines, was an adjustment. So it's easier said than done. I still prefer NFAA.

One of the keys on FITA style is you have to flush a poor shot and do a next good one, or quickly that whole end is screwed and you've blown 10% of that 300.

I know some people who literally practice one shot an end. I think that is also a tiebreak but it's useful for the ruthless "ok, switch on, produce, sit down, switch on, produce......" aspect of FITA.


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## centershot

Shot a 273 16X round on Sunday (Shot one 3 the rest 4's & 5's) with my light limbs on the Dorado. Pretty good X count - seemed like I was right on or off quite a bit....I do believe I shot better with my hunting setup!


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## MGF

Good shooting!


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## vabowdog

Been mixing it up lately with different setups...shot a Vegas round Friday night 284 then Sunday shot a Blue white face 300 round 287... Not real happy with the 287 ALOT of distractions...that's my story.


Dewayne


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## centershot

369/450 at leagues last night - plenty of distractions in there! But that's also half the fun. I can't wait to be done with these Vegas targets......


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## ttop

Shot 3 - 300 rounds this week out in the wind. Shot 248, 255(p/b), 240. Groups are looking fair (3 - 4.5 inches),but my group center varies from end to end. 
I'm not yet sure of whats changing. When I find it, I'm hoping for a score improvement.


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## Wobbley

149 on the blue face @ 20

(Trumpet mute) Wa Wa Waaaaaaaaa. OK, something to work on then.

In defence of my righteous and upstanding archery honor, it was the second time I shot the Bear Takedown I bought recently.

Still not sure I have the plunger tweaked correctly.


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## Azzurri

Wobbley said:


> 149 on the blue face @ 20
> 
> (Trumpet mute) Wa Wa Waaaaaaaaa. OK, something to work on then.
> 
> In defence of my righteous and upstanding archery honor, it was the second time I shot the Bear Takedown I bought recently.
> 
> Still not sure I have the plunger tweaked correctly.


The key on projects, form or equipment, is the trend line. I had some lousy league scores this year when I played around with equipment or even used a range bow and arrows. But once I decided on something and practiced indoor with it outside of league, my scores went above average and sometimes personal best.

If you want to make the Bear work you might use it exclusively for a while. At some point you then get so settled that if you still have some issue, it's the bow needs adjustment or the setup needs tuning. But if it's different day different bow hard to tell.


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## Azzurri

ttop said:


> Shot 3 - 300 rounds this week out in the wind. Shot 248, 255(p/b), 240. Groups are looking fair (3 - 4.5 inches),but my group center varies from end to end.
> I'm not yet sure of whats changing. When I find it, I'm hoping for a score improvement.


Could be wind outside. Hard wind might push groups around might be different wind from end to end. That's one reason a lot of 300s are done indoors is controlled environment.

Could be alignment, feet or string/riser. If you're unconsciously turning riser different, or moving feet around, you could be shooting straight with form but moving shot around with alignment.


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## Targetshoot

Been shooting recurve about 3 months now. Got my new bow 2 weeks ago and it instantly kicked my averages up about 20 points. Still a beginner on recurve but shot 217/300 Monday and each session I am slowly tweaking the form.


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## ranchoarcher

I'm posing this question to Centershot, Dewayne, and anyone else who shoots in the 270 plus range. There seems to be two schools of thought when it comes to the shot routine. One says to get to anchor, stop, aim and shoot, generically speaking. The other says that the draw doesn't stop or pause at all. That it's one continuous motion through to completion with the only change being in the speed of the draw getting progressively slower as you approach release. Which do you guys use? Have you tried both?


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## Demmer

I predraw (1/4 draw)and line everything up and make sure the grip feels good. Then I bring it to full draw and hold. I make sure everything feels good then aim. When everything is lined up well, it just seems to go off. I make sure I keep good tension and pull trough the shot. I wouldnt say I continue drawing, but pull through on the release.


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## Corene1

I try to make my shot routine the same every time. Fingers on the string the same, hand in the grip the same go into my predraw while locking my bow arm shoulder and keeping forward pressure on it, as I am pulling back I am starting to aim then go into my anchor put the finishing touch on my aim as my back is coming into tension when the aim is there release. The motion never stops , it just slows way down on that last 1/4 inch or so.


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## MGF

I'm not up there with Dewayne or Demmer but I get lucky and bump over 270 once in a while.

Lately, I've been shooting more like what Corene describes. For a while I was just drawing too far off target and having to hold too long and move too much. All my work to draw to "perfect" form was wasted because, too often, I'd be losing it before it was time to shoot.

I wouldn't say that I aim as I draw but I try to draw on target and I think of the draw and "expansion" to release as one motion. It slows way down at full draw and that's like a "hold" but I don't intend for there to be a "stop". As soon as I think of stopping there's a far chance something is going to get messed up.


----------



## vabowdog

Targetshoot said:


> Been shooting recurve about 3 months now. Got my new bow 2 weeks ago and it instantly kicked my averages up about 20 points. Still a beginner on recurve but shot 217/300 Monday and each session I am slowly tweaking the form.





ranchoarcher said:


> I'm posing this question to Centershot, Dewayne, and anyone else who shoots in the 270 plus range. There seems to be two schools of thought when it comes to the shot routine. One says to get to anchor, stop, aim and
> shoot, generically speaking. The other says that the draw doesn't stop or pause at all. That it's one continuous motion through to
> completion with the only change being in the speed of the draw getting progressively slower as you approach release. Which do
> you guys use? Have you tried both?



I get to anchor and stop pulling except back tension....which is not lengthening your draw but tension.

Hope this helps

Dewayne


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## Corene1

It seems that if I try to draw and hold my muscles will go static and a flyer will result. My bow arm gets less stable or I will creep a little on my draw. Not as noticeable up close but it really shows up 40 yards and beyond.


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## ranchoarcher

Thanks for the replies. I was curious since up until recently I did the park at anchor. I'm now being told to do a more continuous draw by the instructor I just hired. There does seem to be a benefit of less potential erratic movement when the draw is not stopped as Corene1 pointed out. The one down side is there is a time limit as to how long you can draw before the arrow has to be let go whether you're on target or not.


----------



## Corene1

ranchoarcher said:


> Thanks for the replies. I was curious since up until recently I did the park at anchor. I'm now being told to do a more continuous draw by the instructor I just hired. There does seem to be a benefit of less potential erratic movement when the draw is not stopped as Corene1 pointed out. The one down side is there is a time limit as to how long you can draw before the arrow has to be let go whether you're on target or not.


 Now the hard part. Letting down when things aren't right instead of forcing the shot. My typical shot timing from the time I set my hand in the grip to release is 5 to 6 seconds. I already have my gap figured so it is essentially. Walk to the target, 37 yards tell my self that is a 3/8 inch gap and set the picture in my brain. from that point on it is 5 to 6 seconds to release. If anything goes wrong in the shot sequence or you are fighting the aim at draw, let down relax a bit take a breath and start over.


----------



## centershot

ranchoarcher said:


> I'm posing this question to Centershot, Dewayne, and anyone else who shoots in the 270 plus range. There seems to be two schools of thought when it comes to the shot routine. One says to get to anchor, stop, aim and shoot, generically speaking. The other says that the draw doesn't stop or pause at all. That it's one continuous motion through to completion with the only change being in the speed of the draw getting progressively slower as you approach release. Which do you guys use? Have you tried both?


I don't stop, but my shot slows way way down and the movement is not even noticeable to watch but I can feel it. There are several different thoughts on the subject but I think constant pulling is the way to go. You will see some guys yank the bow back and see-saw it, then settle forward into an anchor point - I believe that is a recipe for creeping and inconsistent shooting. There is also a crowd that basically pulls and snap shoots - not desirable either. I prefer the draw to anchor, transfer, continue pulling (very small additional drawing) to expansion where the release just happens and I try to follow through to conclusion. Pretend your shooting with a clicker, but you don't really have one on your bow. When it works the accuracy is amazing, but it is a very difficult little process to repeat exactly. Always a work in progress!


----------



## ranchoarcher

I agree. It does seem to be the most accurate way to shoot provided it's done right which of course makes it the most difficult way to shoot. Synchronizing is the tough part. Having everything lined up when it's go time requires a lot of work. As Coren1 pointed out, to let down when it's not is a bear. It's got to be done with a perfected rhythm which takes a good amount of time to get down. It's like learning to waltz or something. Lucky for me I've only been at this gig since mid last year so not too many bad habits to break. Still, it's a tough nut to crack. 

Funny you should mention clicker. What I've found is there is a slight sensation of let off in the middle of the back and shoulders at a certain point in the draw. I take that as being perfectly aligned which has become the firing signal. Seems to work assuming I did everything else right as rare as that is at this stage.


----------



## centershot

There is a reason no one has recorded a perfect 300 shooting Trad equipment, it is extremely difficult. Dewayne has been getting as close as anyone I have ever heard of.


----------



## Demmer

centershot said:


> There is a reason no one has recorded a perfect 300 shooting Trad equipment, it is extremely difficult. Dewayne has been getting as close as anyone I have ever heard of.


I know a guy that shot back to back 297, 298 shooting a fita barebow setup, no stabs. That man is pretty awesome! I can't wait til the day I see the 300 happen. I don't care who shoots it, because it would be cool period!


----------



## centershot

Demmer said:


> I know a guy that shot back to back 297, 298 shooting a fita barebow setup, no stabs. That man is pretty awesome! I can't wait til the day I see the 300 happen. I don't care who shoots it, because it would be cool period!


I think there are a couple of guys right now that can do it. It just takes, well......... a perfect 60 arrows. They are shooting as good as anyone - ever, in my opinion. I still have to break 280 before I get dreaming too big!


----------



## MGF

ranchoarcher said:


> I agree. It does seem to be the most accurate way to shoot provided it's done right which of course makes it the most difficult way to shoot. Synchronizing is the tough part. Having everything lined up when it's go time requires a lot of work. As Coren1 pointed out, to let down when it's not is a bear. It's got to be done with a perfected rhythm which takes a good amount of time to get down. It's like learning to waltz or something. Lucky for me I've only been at this gig since mid last year so not too many bad habits to break. Still, it's a tough nut to crack.
> 
> Funny you should mention clicker. What I've found is there is a slight sensation of let off in the middle of the back and shoulders at a certain point in the draw. I take that as being perfectly aligned which has become the firing signal. Seems to work assuming I did everything else right as rare as that is at this stage.


I don't really agree. The constant pulling is the "continuous draw" but movement slows to where it's mostly "internal...it's just tension. I don't find letting down to be any trouble at all...beyond the fact that I went through all the trouble of drawing the bow because I intend to shoot it. LOL
Once you're at anchor and everything is "right", I don't think you want to move. You just don't want to collapse.


----------



## steve morley

This is the first time I tried this Fita Indoor round so no idea if it's average or good but I was pretty happy within myself with no wild shots, plenty of room for improvement, aiming on multi coloured face was a little strange at first anyway I scored 531. I will shoot some Fita Indoor league and Nationals Katrin booked me into.

I purchased a new set of 36# med Kaya Storms, very smooth shooting and spent most of the week figuring which set of arrows would give the best 20 yard tune. A solid start to the season and something to build on.:thumbs_up


----------



## centershot

Steve is that 2) 30 arrow rounds on the Vegas style face? Or is that 60 arrows on the 3 vertical targets?


----------



## steve morley

centershot said:


> Steve is that 2) 30 arrow rounds on the Vegas style face? Or is that 60 arrows on the 3 vertical targets?


2 x 30 arrow rounds on single Fita target.


When I first set the new limbs up I put them on the Moon riser and the new CT Cheetah 650's tuned ok just showing a little weak but on the Vanquish no chance they were far too weak, after trying 610 Navs I settled on my original 550 C1 arrows I was using with the 42# Border CV limbs, they bareshaft really well at 25y. I can now start seriously working on my Indoor game. I would never have guessed those 550's would be ok with 36# limbs.


----------



## vabowdog

I look for a 300 score to be shot this year...there's several getting closer every year...I'm like Dimmer I don't care who shoots it.

Dewayne


----------



## Azzurri

You talking trad or does that include olympic? Girl in my league had a 299 couple weeks ago with an olympic and barely missed on the 4. Nother guy same range had a 299 olympic at state and could conceivably put up a 300 in either a series tourney or state itself.


----------



## Azzurri

steve morley said:


> This is the first time I tried this Fita Indoor round so no idea if it's average or good but I was pretty happy within myself with no wild shots, plenty of room for improvement, aiming on multi coloured face was a little strange at first anyway I scored 531. I will shoot some Fita Indoor league and Nationals Katrin booked me into.
> 
> I purchased a new set of 36# med Kaya Storms, very smooth shooting and spent most of the week figuring which set of arrows would give the best 20 yard tune. A solid start to the season and something to build on.:thumbs_up


Worth putting out there that FITA scores are usually lower than NFAA 300s because of, among other things, dividing each ring into 2 rings. 60 arrows into the 4 ring of a NFAA is 240. Same degree of accuracy on FITA is 210-240 depending how many are 7s or 8s, that is, if you shoot the outside of an NFAA "4" you get FITA "7" and lose 30 points per 300.

I say that because IMO a person shooting a FITA 300 should be good for about 10-20 points more per 300 on a NFAA face. The split narrows as you approach 300 but everyone loses some score from the subdivided rings. I score about 15 less a round WA/USAA vs. NFAA. If you're comparing yourself to NFAA scores on here, it's not quite a direct translation. You should get a "bonus" when you shoot the more forgiving NFAA face.


----------



## Demmer

Stephen, did you shoot a fita barebow setup or with a short stabilizer?


----------



## steve morley

Demmer said:


> Stephen, did you shoot a fita barebow setup or with a short stabilizer?


yep

My focus will be IFAA rounds for Worlds next year which we're hosting in Estonia (I will still shot WA Barebow setup) but as we have this Fita league tourney for our club and Nationals and Katrin just registered me then told me afterwards lol. It did feel harder to shoot, maybe if I get more familiar with the multicoloured faces it will help.

It wont be easy some good shots around, Timo Leskinen from Finland shot a 297 on the 300 round a few weeks ago in competition, just got to keep plugging away. Happy with my setup and Form just need to work on getting my Focus to a higher level and maintain it for longer periods.


----------



## steve morley

I got the bespoke Vanquish Barebow weight a few weeks ago, it's working really well and looks cool also. It's the quietest ILF Recurve setup I've shot to date, as quiet as my Dryad Orion. 










Did you notice the new 2015 Hoyt lineup has copied the Vanquish limb pockets support bar :wink:


----------



## Demmer

You are going to have to take those dampeners out to be legal. Just giving you a heads up.


----------



## steve morley

Holger from Stolid Bull is working on an alternative, for IFAA it's not an issue and chances are from what I was told by a high ranking Judge WA will likely allow them for next year.


----------



## centershot

372/450 last night at leagues. Inching my way up. My goal is to shoot over 400/450 during leagues (have done it in practice). A guy brought in some elk videos that he had taken last season and we were watching them in between ends - that was pretty tough on my focus!


----------



## Demmer

steve morley said:


> Holger from Stolid Bull is working on an alternative, for IFAA it's not an issue and chances are from what I was told by a high ranking Judge WA will likely allow them for next year.


Never saw the big deal about just popping the dampeners out. We had a teammate that had to in Croatia. It wasn't a big deal. Only a few risers out there have them anyway.


----------



## steve morley

Demmer said:


> Never saw the big deal about just popping the dampeners out. We had a teammate that had to in Croatia. It wasn't a big deal. Only a few risers out there have them anyway.


All I noticed was a change in the harmonics of the after shot, Torben from Denmark was asked to remove his at WA3D in Tallinn, he was quite upset and said it changed his shot, he ended up in the medals anyway.


----------



## centershot

How do your finger rest on that grip? I usually wrap 2 around the riser and tuck 2 under the grip. It looks like your fingers would be extended unless you put them in the hole in front of the riser. Interesting design.


----------



## Demmer

I read that before. He should have known before the shoot. I would think the only difference would have been the couple of ounces difference in the mass weight. You are right, it didn't effect him that much. He could have won with them in, but easily could have finished out of the medals with them in as well. We will never know.


----------



## Demmer

centershot said:


> How do your finger rest on that grip? I usually wrap 2 around the riser and tuck 2 under the grip. It looks like your fingers would be extended unless you put them in the hole in front of the riser. Interesting design.


You really shouldn't finger any grip. It can be a recipe for torquing. A nice open grip has always worked best for me.


----------



## centershot

I kind of picked that up because I sent a couple flying without a wrist strap. It is a very loose grip but enough to not have the bow fly out of my hand on the shot. All of my personal bows have wrist straps....


----------



## Demmer

I always use a finger sling, and comes in real handy for situations when I see someone else's bow I would like to try.


----------



## centershot

375/450 Vegas - shot my new Excel/SF. I put it together shot 10 arrows and started league! It shoots very fast, gaps about the same as my hunting bow so I had a good idea where to hold, but not optimal for indoors with a 2' gap! I'll see what I can do to slow it down and get the gap smaller here in the next few days.


----------



## Targetshoot

Got my new bow 10/6. Scores have gone from a high of 184 at that time to a 236 last night. Still shooting purely instinctive and really working hard on anchor and release right now. But still loving it.


----------



## steve morley

Shot a 527 on the Fita 18m yesterday, second round of my qualification score for Nationals in Dec

I used the Moon and new 36# Kaya Storms and Cheetah arrows, KStorms don't fit the Vanquish on min bolt setting, a couple of turns in they fit but then at 39# so I'll have to decided if this is still comfortable (normally shoot 42#), I still have some experimenting to do with arrows to see what gives me an all round setting for both IFAA 20y and Flint 30y. Overall I'm pretty happy with those Fita scores, not a top score but pretty respectable and feel I have more to give.

The 650 Cheetah's were too weak yesterday even at min bolt setting, I made a new string last night, swapped the 8190 string for a 16 stand D97 it was just enough to bring the bareshaft in and seems to be a softer more forgiving shot, scores will be the real test on this theory.


----------



## centershot

The Vegas/Fita target is pretty unforgiving. My scores can vary quite a bit by just catching the higher scoring line or not - seems like my scores vary quite a bit more on the Vegas style target than the NFAA face, but at the end the holes in the target look to be about the same overall groups - if that make sense. I'd rather shoot the NFAA target, but that's not what the early league is so the colored face it is. It's all fun.


----------



## centershot

375/450 Vegas again in leagues last night..........starting to look like about my average. A bit frustrating because I have broken 400 a couple times in practice.


----------



## Wobbley

176 on NFAA. My third try with the Takedown and a 26 point improvement from the first go.

I have hung up the compound for the season (probably) and will focus on the Takedown until next summer. Picked up Shooting the Stickbow again.

Will try again this weekend, hopefully at the Bear Archery range during my travels up I-75.


----------



## centershot

Fired off a couple rounds this weekend 277 and 274, seems to be just about average.


----------



## Targetshoot

And a pretty darn nice average to have I might say!


----------



## centershot

Thanks, I'm inching it up year by year - if you look back at the first of this thread you'll see my scores just over 200. Last year hung around in the 260's and this year in the 270's. Not too sure the trend will keep going as points are getting pretty tough to come by! This has been quite a thread by the way, it was started back in 2010 and has had over 50,000 views - and we are just getting into target season for this year. Pretty cool.


----------



## teenarcher36

I'm going to ask this here instead of starting a new thread, if it has already been discussed please point me in the right direction.

I am about to order a new set of limbs for my sage for strictly indoor spots this winter, and am torn between 25-30#s. I would like to get a 20 yard point on as I will be shooting bare bow, and the only time I will shoot it is at 20 yards. So my question is what limb/arrow weight is everyone using to get a 20yrd point on for indoor spots?


----------



## centershot

If you have been shooting for a while and can handle 30#, then I would go that route and find another way to get your point on (if that is what you want). Like longer arrows, heavier arrows, changing you anchor to a higher point. FWIW even with my target bow (34# SF & Excel Riser) shooting 2013's 31' Long I have about an 18" gap. I have found that I am more accurate like that than shooting a very heavy arrow because the draw length and release become too critical - just a minor deviation and that arrow will drop right out the bottom. Always compromises - you just need to find which ones work for you.


----------



## [email protected]

I just ordered a set of 25# limbs for my Sage for 20 yard shooting. Full length 2016s with 125 grain points are flying well and ar slightly below point on for me.


----------



## teenarcher36

[email protected] said:


> I just ordered a set of 25# limbs for my Sage for 20 yard shooting. Full length 2016s with 125 grain points are flying well and ar slightly below point on for me.


Do know how much they weigh?


----------



## centershot

Well after several weeks of Vegas 450 league my average is right around 375/450. I always manage to put a couple in the blue and it really hurts the score. I think my high has been 383/450 and low 365/450. Anyone else shooting Vegas spots?


----------



## Wobbley

I went zooming past 200 for the first time ever the other day on the NFAA 20. All the way up to 201. That is an entire integer above 200 for those keeping score at home.

I know that isn't amazing for many of the shooters on here. But for me that is a 52 point gain in a month and a half. 

Far fewer fliers. I think in the past I was going left eye dominant on many shots. I am now consciously picking up the target with my right eye when I anchor.


----------



## MGF

Wobbley, great progress!


----------



## vabowdog

Center, I'm shooting the Vegas spots getting ready for Lancaster...starting to get use to holding on the yellow which was quite the learning curve from the Blue white.


Dewayne


----------



## centershot

I'm not sure what it is about the multi colored target, but I sure don't shoot as well on it as the blue face.....but, that is what we do for leagues until Vegas is over then we switch to the NFAA blue face (can't wait). Good luck at Lancasters - there are a couple guys from here that have been making that trip each year. Sounds like a great shoot. I have limited vacation and $ to spend on this stuff so I tend to take my time off and spend my $ when there are elk to be chased!


----------



## Sanford

One problem with the multicolored target is finding contrast with the aperture or pin. Bright colors blend the aim. Black target points blend easy too. Flo green worked best for my aperture, but there are no flo green points. I thought maybe tungsten color worth a try.


----------



## centershot

No pins to worry about for me - I shoot Trad legal. I think more so than the target is the game. Shoot 3 arrows, stand around for 10 minutes (other line shoots, scores, wanders back) then shoot again. That is rough on getting in a 'groove'. The other thing that tends to cost me a point or three is half way through the round we swap targets - top to bottom, bottom to top. That switch has been rough - it takes me a round or two to get used to the way it looks again. I think if I could get a higher point on it would definitely help with that, but so far I have not found an anchor/arrow combination that is worth the compromise. Oh well it's all fun and practice for the one shot in the fall that really matters.


----------



## Bustoff

I shot a 191 today - personal best for me. I'm shooting a PSE Buckeye, 30 pound, with 1716's, in the backyard, into straw bales, homemade cardboard target. That 200 point benchmark is finally within reach!


----------



## Bustoff

12-13-14 
196 :drum:


----------



## centershot

277 16X, shot 3 consecutive 25's then a 23 on the last round but had kind of a poor middle round of 87, first round about average at 92. Overall nice group and felt like I shot pretty well - just a bit too high with too many 4's and not enough 5's - 280 still eludes me.


----------



## vabowdog

Good shooting Center.

Dewayne


----------



## centershot

Finished up our Vegas 10 week league last night with a 392/450 - averaged about 375/450 for the 10 weeks. Hopefully we are done with that multi colored monster!


----------



## Targetshoot

Good shooting. I just start practicing on that target face the last few days. Got my bow in October and I want to shoot the NFAA indoor State meet in Feb. They shoot NFAA 300 one day and Vegas 300 the next. That multi color is interesting.


----------



## steve morley

282 today on the IFAA 300 round, I'm still experimenting with various setup combos, the 36# KStorms I recently purchased don't fit on the Vanquish on min bolt setting, best I can do is 3 turns in and set at 40# 

The med KStorms work on the Moon riser at min setting but I really want to shoot the Vanquish riser this season. I'll just have to work into the weight. I shoot 42# for Field/3D and tried the CV (short) limbs or our Fita Indoor Nationals but it was too much weight and killed my scores, lucky for me I still won. 

42# is fine in the Summer months I'm almost shooting daily but in the Winter I'm lucky to shoot once a week and 36# is much more comfy during this winter period, looks like I'll have to work out this winter lol


----------



## ghostgoblin22

how do you score a 20 yard NFAA spot?


----------



## steve morley

ghostgoblin22 said:


> how do you score a 20 yard NFAA spot?


same score I think 5,4,3,2,1 but in IFAA you have to cut the line to score, in NFAA you just have to touch it but that would only be for 3/4 line cutters, if your shooting 280's and higher then 3/4 linecutters aren't really going to be an issue


----------



## ghostgoblin22

steve morley said:


> same score I think 5,4,3,2,1 but in IFAA you have to cut the line to score, in NFAA you just have to touch it but that would only be for 3/4 line cutters, if your shooting 280's and higher then 3/4 linecutters aren't really going to be an issue


where can i get a NFAA 20 target?


----------



## centershot

Lancaster's I think they are 30 cents each.


----------



## Aronnax

ghostgoblin22 said:


> where can i get a NFAA 20 target?


If you don't mind printing/taping-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rvag75ohkc3knes/nfaa300.pdf?dl=0

and if you shoot out the centers you can replace those as needed- 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0s7dkxqtm6ay42y/nfaa300 8.5 x 11.pdf?dl=0

I spray the backs of them with 3m spray adhesive and stick them to cardboard.

BM


----------



## ghostgoblin22

Aronnax said:


> If you don't mind printing/taping-
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rvag75ohkc3knes/nfaa300.pdf?dl=0
> 
> and if you shoot out the centers you can replace those as needed-
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0s7dkxqtm6ay42y/nfaa300 8.5 x 11.pdf?dl=0
> 
> I spray the backs of them with 3m spray adhesive and stick them to cardboard.
> 
> BM


thanks buddy


----------



## ghostgoblin22

how many rounds are their?


----------



## Arrowwood

The whole thing is a "round", sixty arrows for 300 possible points is called a 300 round. It's shot in twelve "ends" of five arrows.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

k thanks


----------



## Aronnax

ghostgoblin22 said:


> thanks buddy


Maybe you already know and don't need to be told, but I just realized I didn't say that when printing maker sure you un-check "scale to fit", or however it's worded. Must print 100% size, or it'll end up a bit small.

BM


----------



## centershot

Anyone shooting indoor leagues?


----------



## MGF

Not here. The only league around is all compounds.

But...I'd consider shooting just to shoot with other people except they don't do it that way. Shooters have all week to shoot and turn in their score.


----------



## vabowdog

Our leagues start the first week of January.

Dewayne


----------



## RoscoeP23

We are warm enough here on the west coast of Canada to shoot 3D outside all winter long.


----------



## centershot

Had one more day of Vegas leagues last night 391/450. After the New Year we start up another league 5 weeks Vegas (Until the Vegas Shoot is over) then switch to NFAA targets (thank goodness) until Indoor State. I think I'm going to shoot the second league with my compound.........pretty lonely being the only recurve shooter


----------



## centershot

ttt


----------



## steve morley

I broke past that 290 barrier last week, it took a lot of work and I'm very happy to pass that milestone, just a small detail of being able to repeat those scores in competition so I'm not sitting back and relaxing just yet. 

If I can walk away consistently shooting high 280's and maybe low 290's at the World Indoors in March I will be very happy, The Finnish guy Timo is on fire at the moment and been shooting around 297/298 in last couple of competitions, I think if anybody is likely to break 300 with unsighted Recurve he is the best bet for this years worlds. :thumbs_up


----------



## [email protected]

My archery career began around 1963, and took a detour in 1975 when I took up cable bows. I have returned to my beginnings and it has been complicated by age and open heart surgery. However I shot this group yesterday at 20 yards after about 140 arrows. My ultimate goal is to keep 'em all in the four ring, but right now I'm aiming for a 240. I'm pleased with this group at 32 degrees with a light breeze.


----------



## centershot

Shot a 257 yesterday with my hunting bow - first time I have shot a recurve in over a month.


----------



## centershot

steve morley said:


> I broke past that 290 barrier last week, it took a lot of work and I'm very happy to pass that milestone, just a small detail of being able to repeat those scores in competition so I'm not sitting back and relaxing just yet.
> 
> If I can walk away consistently shooting high 280's and maybe low 290's at the World Indoors in March I will be very happy, The Finnish guy Timo is on fire at the moment and been shooting around 297/298 in last couple of competitions, I think if anybody is likely to break 300 with unsighted Recurve he is the best bet for this years worlds. :thumbs_up


That is great shooting Steve.......After what Dewayne and Demmer did at Vegas, I got a feeling it's going to happen soon. Maybe at a State level tourney. To do it at Louisville would be awesome. Wonder if they kept them all in the yellow at Vegas?


----------



## Demmer

It will happen soon enough. I've shot 299 and a pile of 298s barebow this year. 298 was the high on the line soo far. Dewayne has pretty much been in the same boat. I'm pulling for him to pull it off if I can't.


----------



## huckleberg

centershot said:


> Thanks Viper1, I appreciate the encouragement.


Yea Master Vipe is good that way ... I have my first formal lesson coming up on Sunday, cannot wait ... I have created a scaled version of the target to shoot at 9 yards in my basement ... once I have my lesson I will post some pics of that horror show to this thread ... LOL


----------



## huckleberg

[email protected] said:


> My archery career began around 1963, and took a detour in 1975 when I took up cable bows. I have returned to my beginnings and it has been complicated by age and open heart surgery. However I shot this group yesterday at 20 yards after about 140 arrows. My ultimate goal is to keep 'em all in the four ring, but right now I'm aiming for a 240. I'm pleased with this group at 32 degrees with a light breeze.


That's what my groups look like ... at 9yds in my climate-controlled basement LOL


----------



## centershot

Got some new arrows! Beman Diva 500's 33 1/2" long. Reduced my gaps to where the point is on the paper! Shot a 275 16X first time out shooting my Excel/SF Axiom 32# bow. Hopefully this will help me get thru that 280 barrier!


----------



## Demmer

Good shooting Center


----------



## centershot

Thanks, 275 is a long ways from the scores you and Dewayne are putting up, but I'm working on it! Getting the point on the paper is awesome. I have always had the point well below and I think this will help refine my aiming. 

What I really need is a few good shooter around to push me. Punching paper Trad style is pretty lonely in So. Idaho.


----------



## Demmer

Long ways, maybe, maybe not. Time will tell won't it.


----------



## steve morley

I had an interesting tourney at the weekend (Indoor Flint round to 30y max), think I left my brain at home, scored incorrectly on the card (lucky double scoring) and at 15 yards I scored a perfect 20 on the wrong face  and got zero, the guy standing next to me saw his chance to maybe win but I was so mad that I scored so strong on the next 3 rounds he fell apart on last target and I still managed to win.

Think I officially hate Flint rounds now


----------



## centershot

Demmer said:


> Long ways, maybe, maybe not. Time will tell won't it.


Baby steps - right? First 280, then maybe a new goal. Funny how this works, a few years ago I would have never thought that consistent 220's were doable, then 240's, then 260's, etc. Seems like the bar gets bumped up a bit each season. Hopefully it continues that way for a few more years before things go the other direction. Too bad there are so many that refuse to shoot 'spots'. It is a wonderful way to track your progress and a lot of fun too.


----------



## ozzypop

Good deal Steve.


----------



## centershot

276 26X Sat. night. Had one 3 in the middle of the round where I lost a focus - ugh this is tough with my ADD (Archery Deficiency Disorder).


----------



## centershot

268 12X in leagues last night..........old tp monster was creeping in on me. I had to really slow down and break down my shot into all the little steps. Made it through, but was quite a workout.


----------



## workinonit50

212 5X - first official NFAA 300. Only 2 months shooting.


----------



## bshaver

Not that many years ago I could shoot a 240+ at twenty yards. Last Spring I could shoot a 270+ at 15 yards. Don't know the last time I shot 60 arrows at twenty yards. Did today, - 165. Wow, how disappointing. Only good points, - I was able to shoot pretty quickly without tiring, and the total for the last six ends was considerably better than the first six ends. Well now I have a mark on which to improve. 

I will alternate between 20 yards and 15 yards. I want to be ready for turkey season. I need to know my killing range. I used to be pretty good at twenty-five and deadly at nineteen or twenty. Last Spring I was pretty good at eighteen and deadly at fifteen. I need to get deadly at fifteen and that pretty much means shooting only 5's. I figured shooting twenty yards would help confidence wise, break up the boredom, and let me interact with those of you who are mortal, Morley and others aside.



I shoot my hunting bow (42# or #48 depending on which limbs), bare bow, and hunting arrows (5 inch feathers, 530 grain), and on my knees. I am really grateful I can still shoot, and hope to regain some of my former accuracy.


----------



## centershot

I think with a little practice at 20 yards your scores will improve. If you shooting 270+ @ 15, then I would think that should translate to 250+ pretty easily. Might just take a round or two to get used to the new distance.


----------



## bshaver

Thanks, but I left you with the wrong impression. I'm not shooting 270+ at fifteen yards. A year ago I was, and a year ago I was going "down hill", which accelerated this past year. Now the biggest reason for my decline in accuracy was lack of shooting. I used to shoot at least twelve arrows every day. I now have a basement range, (only 12 yards), and I am sure I will improve with regular shooting.


----------



## steve morley

Good indoor session today. 

I went back to my heavier 43# border limbs and new 525 cheetahs with 20g inserts and 105g tophat points, I shot one bad end on first half 21 points and I finished with 141 but very pleased with strong second half 146, specially with last three ends all scoring 25's for a solid 287.

I've been struggling with the med Kaya limbs, they won't fit on the Vanquish on min preload so they were set at 39#, still felt smooth/stable but I could not tune the Cheetah's on this weight setting. After some though I decided that I really want to shoot the Vanquish riser and the Cheetah arrows so it had to be the short CV-H limbs to make this combo work.

55554
55554
54444 (nice group just outside the spot)
55544
55554
55555

55544
55555
55544
55555
55555
55555

The Kaya limbs have helped me tidy my form up and pleased the extra draw weight didn't really impact my scores


----------



## davidflorida

Started shooting last summer after hurting my shoulder and not being able to hold my Mathews compound out because my shoulder was so weak . Shot for a couple of months then stopped because of gun season . Got a sage for Xmas 50 # thought I was ready for more weight wrong . The bow I have been shooting is a Shakespeare tioga that was giving to me 40 # , I have been or acting for 2 months with the tioga a couple times a week . I got some nfaa 20 yards targets and have shot 8 rounds avg score is 123 . I just ordered a set of 35 pound limbs for the sage so I can work on form and my release and see how it works . Also got vipers book I think this should help .


----------



## bshaver

Stay with it David, and Vipers book will help. Thought I would be posting about my 200 round or close to it. It was 162. Didn't beat last time. So I violated my rule, shoot at least 50 arrows and not more than 100 arrows. I shot another round, only this time I shot at 15 yards instead of 20 yards. It was 241. I predict my next round at 20 yards will be 180 and at 15 yards it will be 245.


----------



## centershot

Shot 272 17X at a NFAA 300 Indoor Shoot at our club this weekend. Pretty happy with anything over 270 in competition.


----------



## davidflorida

Shot 2 rounds of 300 , numbers 9-10 haha slo but sure shot a 112 and a 108 pretty windy and some rain . My top yet was a 172 second round I shot . Trying a few changes and working on back tension .


----------



## steve morley

centershot said:


> Shot 272 17X at a NFAA 300 Indoor Shoot at our club this weekend. Pretty happy with anything over 270 in competition.


Yeah that's my benchmark for tourney scores, 270 and higher is acceptable in competition.

I tried normal 3 under and gapping the other day, it was ugly lol. I tried to switch back the the higher anchor and it felt so awkward, I doubt I will ever switch back to normal Gapping style after doing this Stringwalking, I'm very comfortable with it now, specially the lower anchor point.


----------



## davidflorida

Center shot I am only 100 back of you. Great shooting there. Just watched myself on a go pro lots of work to be done didn't realize how much I was leaning forward into my shots. lighter limbs coming this week looking forward to tying them out.


----------



## centershot

steve morley said:


> Yeah that's my benchmark for tourney scores, 270 and higher is acceptable in competition.
> 
> I tried normal 3 under and gapping the other day, it was ugly lol. I tried to switch back the the higher anchor and it felt so awkward, I doubt I will ever switch back to normal Gapping style after doing this Stringwalking, I'm very comfortable with it now, specially the lower anchor point.


I shoot NFAA Trad Legal - so 3 under with a finger touching the nock. High anchors have always been a compromise for me but a worth while trade off for the better sight picture. I still have about a 10" gap at the target but its manageable. I need to spend some time with string walking - anchoring with my index finger in the corner of my mouth makes for much better alignment and a more solid anchor. Add to that a better sight picture with a crawl and I can see how that could be a good combination.


----------



## centershot

davidflorida said:


> Center shot I am only 100 back of you. Great shooting there. Just watched myself on a go pro lots of work to be done didn't realize how much I was leaning forward into my shots. lighter limbs coming this week looking forward to tying them out.


David, Take a look back at when I started this thread, I was barely scratching 200 when I started. This thread kind of tracks my progress over the last few years (another reason to shoot and score targets). There is a lot of good info from a lot of great shooters in this thread.


----------



## davidflorida

Its a great thread, appreciate the knowledge and feed back from a bunch of good people. thanks david


----------



## workinonit50

#2 - 203 0x


----------



## steve morley

centershot 270 was about where I was with normal 3 under, that was using big X7's, big feathers and 200g points for a 20y point on. 

If you're able to shoot 270 in normal 3 under Trad style, it's a very nice score. We did have one of the Latvian Longbows shoot an amazing 265, split finger and woodies last year, glad I'm not shooting Longbow anymore, I would have gone home with my tail between my legs yelping like a hurt dog


----------



## steve morley

After struggling a bit today I dropped the Vanquish/CV 42# limbs for the Moon/Kstorms 36# and shot a 290, it's a lot less effort with these lighter limbs


----------



## centershot

261 at leagues last night - ugh, certainly not up to my expectations. But hey, I wasn't home watching TV!


----------



## steve morley

centershot said:


> 261 at leagues last night - ugh, certainly not up to my expectations. But hey, I wasn't home watching TV!


Just when you thought you had it cracked, it kicks you in the crown jewels just to let you know you haven't.

280 today, I've been pushing hard this week, need a few days rest from shooting before Nationals on Sunday.


----------



## UtahIdahoHunter

Just shot my first NFAA 300 round for the year. Shot a 251 at 20 yards. Not too happy, I had some really good streaks, but too many wayward shots, losing focus. I'm still playing around with different arrows to get my point on closer. Had to aim about 18" low still which is way too low if I plan on shooting indoors this year. 

Best Zenit with 40# Hoyt FastExact CF limbs
Full length GT 5575 with 175 gr points(spined all wrong, but gave them a shot)


----------



## centershot

That is the first time that I have seen a 'boogie board' backstop. lol. It takes a few rounds to get used to the whole thing and the number of arrows. This is the end of the Indoor season for most guys, but I always like to shoot a round every week or two just to see where I'm at.


----------



## [email protected]

A return to traditional last June after a 40 year layoff with an initial score of 162. Started with 50# and worked the scores up to around 200 before open heart surgery in September. A two month layoff, and a 25# set of limbs and I was back in the low 200s by Christmas. Put on 40# pound limbs and began to see the scores climb a bit in January. February was a write off due to snow, cold, and wind. Shot a 227 this morning, so it's coming. I am shooting 1916s at 29.5 inches with 125 grain field points, off a Samick Sage, split finger, off the shelf, with a tab. Right now I'm wanting a 240. After that, who knows? I expect to get better with the weather.


----------



## centershot

268 at the last night of leagues. Somewhere in the 265 range for an average. Good luck to all going to Nationals this weekend.


----------



## J. Wesbrock

Last practice round before nationals this weekend.


----------



## centershot

Nice J. - go give Demmer and Dewayne a run!


----------



## [email protected]

I shot a 215 in a gale today. Temps in the low 40s. I expect my scores to rise with the temperature. That's a 50 point rise from my beginning last June, but a far cry from the palm sized groups I'm after. However, the 20s are coming more often, and the 1s and 2s less so. Competing against myself just now, looking for that first 240 -- still a few arrows away. I may never see a 270 again, but it's something to strive for.


----------



## UtahIdahoHunter

centershot said:


> That is the first time that I have seen a 'boogie board' backstop. lol. It takes a few rounds to get used to the whole thing and the number of arrows. This is the end of the Indoor season for most guys, but I always like to shoot a round every week or two just to see where I'm at.


My kids love missing high and shooting over in the neighbors field. I get tired of climbing over the fence so the boogie boards are perfect for kids arrows. LOL


----------



## centershot

Nobody at the indoor range today so I backed up to 30 yards and shot a 230. No zeros or 1's but I did put a few in the 3 ring. That extra 10 yards really makes things interesting!


----------



## RoscoeP23

Nice going, that sounds like pretty solid shooting to me, Cheers Roscoe


----------



## centershot

Thanks, I want to try it again, I think I can do 240+ @ 30yds with a little work.


----------



## centershot

Well I made that 240 @ 30 goal last night, shot 241 (no zeros or ones) - that extra 10 yards really shows any flaws in your form! Guess I need to bump my goal up to 250 - that's going to take a great round for me. It is fun to watch those arrows fly 90 feet and thump the target! Really cool when they are in a nice tight group in the middle. Should add that I'm shooting my Hunting/3D bow, this 40# Dorado.


----------



## Zurf

Tried scoring for the first time yesterday. After reading through some of this thread I learned that I did it wrong - using an 80cm FITA target and using the colors for the rings. It still came to five rings - but they are much larger rings! I will order some of the blue NFAA 40cm targets. Also, I shot 10 rounds of six arrows instead of 12 rounds of five arrows. So, I'm glad I read some. The score was 181 - but you can pretty much discount that as trash given all the errors I made in scoring. 

Once I get some proper NFAA targets in, I'll check back. Otherwise, I'll switch to FITA scores, as that will at least permit me to compare one session to the next.


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## Zurf

Correction: I've been scoring on the 3D range, but not on the static target range.


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## Azzurri

Zurf said:


> Tried scoring for the first time yesterday. After reading through some of this thread I learned that I did it wrong - using an 80cm FITA target and using the colors for the rings. It still came to five rings - but they are much larger rings! I will order some of the blue NFAA 40cm targets. Also, I shot 10 rounds of six arrows instead of 12 rounds of five arrows. So, I'm glad I read some. The score was 181 - but you can pretty much discount that as trash given all the errors I made in scoring.
> 
> Once I get some proper NFAA targets in, I'll check back. Otherwise, I'll switch to FITA scores, as that will at least permit me to compare one session to the next.


You can actually adjust FITA to NFAA roughly by scoring color rings instead of 10 to 0. Same 5 rings just divided in half.

Or you can track your FITA score and then convert it to NFAA on a second score sheet by making 10/9 = 5, 8/7 = 4, etc. I generally do NFAA tournaments which are popular here but I also do some FITA. You can do that conversion and get apples to apples to see how your FITA rounds compare. I do it because FITAs are usually scored lower on their own terms but if you adjust to the NFAA scale sometimes you see the round was going to be similar to NFAA rounds if it had been on a NFAA face. You're not shooting worse you're losing points on the rings. Sometimes. Sometimes you are shooting worse. FITA can be intimidating.


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## Azzurri

You're not doing it "wrong," many people start out shooting at 144 cm outside or the 80 inside. The more arrows you shoot a round the more you will tire so you may be capable of better already.


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## centershot

If you convert from a Fita face you'll want to use a 40cm face or you can buy the NFAA target for 30 cents each from Lancaster's. I usually get a dozen or so whenever I order something from them.


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## 99%

I used the recurve last week for the first time ever during our 
Indoor league. Shooting against the compounds I managed a 179.
Going to try and best it tonight.

Shooting my warfed td-3 riser with sf carbon +
Axis 600's. 3oz on a 10" b-stinger. Nicely balanced


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## Azzurri

I'd shoot the face you might want to compete at eventually, when I'm doing NFAA I shoot NFAA faces for practice. Conversion is more useful as a temporary tool while the NFAA faces get sent to you, or if you do a FITA tourney and want to know what it works out to as NFAA. But I wouldn't buy one to convert to the other for any long time. It's just something you can do short term to make do.

The big thing I've been using the conversion for is to make the FITAs less depressing. You drop 15 points or whatever. OK, if I convert it back to NFAA, I get my "points back" and it's within the range of what I shot this year indoor. Suddenly less depressing.

But other than that, you really want to settle on a target face that you want to stick with to make the improvement week to week more apples to apples. Some people say they like the blue with white bull or the colors.


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## Zurf

Thanks. I ordered a bunch of 40cm NFAA faces and will give those a go. I doubt that I'll ever compete. This is all about personal improvement and entertainment. I may compete in 3D someday, but don't expect to compete effectively. it would just be for fun. I've got enough stressers in my life wherein I have to do my best. It's fun to have something that I can just sort of pursue at my own pace for my own reasons.


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## centershot

You never know, punching paper is pretty fun when you have control of your shot.


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## Zurf

Azzurri said:


> You can actually adjust FITA to NFAA roughly by scoring color rings instead of 10 to 0. Same 5 rings just divided in half.
> .


This is what I did. I shoot outside. Does that matter? It seems a score is a score to me.


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## davidflorida

I shoot out side only ,my best score has been when there was no wind 174 .Haven't come close in a few weeks and the wind has been blowing. I have only shot 18 rounds so far.


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## Zurf

OK. Well, I got some NFAA 40cm targets. Today was my first day at the range with one. I shot two rounds with 12 five arrow ends per round at 10 yards. Normally I shoot at 20 yards, but this being my first time with the paper target I figured to go to 10 yards. 

The first round was 233. The second round was 252. I tracked the X's in the scoring log I bought and put in my field bag, but didn't jot them down on the target and I haven't brought my field bag in from the truck yet because I plan to go to the range again tomorrow. 

In the meanwhile, my eldest daughter failed a math test. I burned a copy of it, cut out the questions she missed, and taped them to a target. She's going to go shoot them tomorrow. After her catharsis, we'll study the questions.


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## Azzurri

Does she err on the low or high side on the math tests because that could be a way to improve 300 round scores is have the kid who fails the math test score the round.


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## Zurf

LOL! 

Well, it was linear regression, so she at least ought to be able to see whether the holes represent a pattern!


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## [email protected]

I shot a 220 today, outdoors in 40 degree temps with no wind. That's about 50 points up from where I started back in June. I am shooting a Sage, alternating limbs between 40# and 50#. Thus far there seems to be little difference in the scores. I have been photographing targets after four rounds and I can see the improvement coming. I would have expected the scores with the 40# limbs to be better, but so far they are not. In fact, the 50# limbs seem to be producing slightly better scores. My goal right now is a 240. 40 years ago, my groups were palm sized, shooting veins off a plastic rest. I'm not quite there, but I keep getting closer. The great thing about the 20 yard NFAA blue face is that you can measure progress. Right now, I'm competing against only myself. Slowly but surely I'm winning. After the 240, I will raise the bar to 270. It may never come, but it's something to strive for.


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## Zurf

I like your attitude Ihuntsnook. 

Changing subjects for a moment, when you hunt snook - do you use a fly rod, and do you use a kayak? I have a current bucket list item to catch redfish on the fly from a kayak. After that, probably snook. The thing is that snook will require a plane ticket whereas redfish requires only a full tank of gas.


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## erotomaniac1928

Shot my first 2 NFAA rounds ever today. Sunny 85° California weather with only a slight breeze. 228 and 230


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## [email protected]

I have indeed caught snook on a fly rod. I lived on Tampa Bay for 17 years where I guided. I did a lot of wading, and I had a canoe. Redfish became my favorite target as you could sight fish them with artificials. However no other fish in saltwater is the equal of the snook. I have a website with some photos on it at customkayakrods.com


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## Zurf

Thanks. And also, shoot. I was just down in Tampa area with some time to kill. Now...back to our regularly scheduled thread. 

It's a bit windy today, so we'll probably stick to the 10 yard lane. Each kid has a test that she wants to shoot. I have printed the cover of the Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board June 30, 2013 edition for my personal catharsis.


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## [email protected]

Just in from the target with a 226. It was a bit nippy at 40 degrees but no wind. My best score thus far, and that with the 50# limbs shooting split fingers, off the shelf. I'm shooting 2117 gamegetters with 125 grain points on 30 inch arrows and they look pretty good on their way to the target.


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## Zurf

Strange that your shooting better with the higher draw weight limbs. I don't think I could hold a 50# bow at anchor. Cool that you got a good score. 

We did go to the range yesterday, but it was cold and windy. Then my youngest daughter accidentally burned up my coat on the clubhouse heater by standing too close. I'll have to mark a yellow safety ring around it.


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## [email protected]

I shot again today with better weather. Overall I shot pretty well, but lost concentration on a couple of ends and only scored a 205. You really have to pay attention to all 60 arrows LOL!


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## erotomaniac1928

erotomaniac1928 said:


> Shot my first 2 NFAA rounds ever today. Sunny 85° California weather with only a slight breeze. 228 and 230


I didn't mention, these were at 15 yards. Moved back to 20 yards finally. A bit chillier today but I shot 196, 199, 198. Really hoping to work back into 230-240 range I hit at 15.


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## centershot

Shot 275 22X last night. Started off good with a 95 and 92 then fell off with an 88 to end it. Shots started shooting the left side of the spot out - when I finished I checked my BH and found that my string had stretched and reduced my BH by about 3/4". It was a new B55 string so some stretch was expected, I just should have checked it sooner. This was with my Excel/SF 33#-Beman Diva arrow setup-standard NFAA 300 round @ 20 yards. Fun stuff.


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## huckleberg

I am shooting NFAA target at 15yds in my driveway. I am using a side-of-face hold and using an el-cheapo plastic target sight (GASP!) because I want to get into Oly Style from here. My scores are in the 240s at 15 yds and I did a 212 at 20yd (again, this is with a sight so _not_ barebow).

Below is the best group ever at 15yds ...


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## centershot

Good shooting! It's fun when you get them all in the white.


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## huckleberg

centershot said:


> Good shooting! It's fun when you get them all in the white.


Yeah cannot wait until I can do that at 20yds barebow (if ever)!! Got a 253 10x today, woulda done another round but it was damp, cold and I was late for work (excuses, excuses).


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## Zurf

Nice shooting! I'm hoping to shoot again some day... It's been real busy lately.


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## centershot

huckleberg said:


> Yeah cannot wait until I can do that at 20yds barebow (if ever)!! Got a 253 10x today, woulda done another round but it was damp, cold and I was late for work (excuses, excuses).


You'll get it! I have shot 2) 5X 25's - accidents of course, but still pretty cool.


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## kenny.baptista2

Shooting 20 yards NAFF 300 RND last 2 rounds were 221, 218. Last 10 RND average was 213. Just went up to a 35# Samick saga from 25#. I've been shooting 1 year 4/4/15. 63 years old returning to archery after 35 year away. This is my new old man hobby.


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## MikeG

Started shooting last year around Memorial Day with a 30# Sage. Went hot and heavy until August when I had to shut it down due to finger tendinitis. During the long recovery period I considered my options and decided to go with longer bows in hopes they'd take the stress off my finger. They do. Started in earnest back on Super Bowl weekend at 10-12 yards in my basement. Got an Imperial from Mr McCabe and picked up a Hoyt Horizon from the big auction place for about $65 less than retail for the Horizon or SF Forged Plus. Picked up Axiom+ limbs and a 12 oz. x-spot weight from LAS. Averaged approximately 220 with both bows at 20 yds at our outdoor range. Shot a 229 last Sunday. Stopped at an indoor range on Tuesday. First time I ever shot at an indoor range. 232 with a few compound shooters blasting away and a lesson going on. Went back today, and after Lars Andersen Jr left I had the place to myself...quiet and at my own pretty quick pace (not nearly as fast as Lars though). 

Shot 242. Lots of 20s and 21s with one unfortunate end of 16. And LOTS of 4s. 

Takeaways: My form is horrible. Zero expansion or release consistency...the arrow just flies from my hand whenever it wants to. The bow doesn't leave/jump from my bowhand after releasing the arrow (I also don't have a sling); the handle stays glued to my left palm. If I lose my back tension or don't properly draw with the correct back tension, I'm guaranteed to miss low in the 1/2/3 ring. Of course when I do correct it on the next shot or two, I'm going to shoot high in the 3 or 4 ring. What's the difference between putting the arrow in the 4 or 5 ring? Beats me. They all feel the same. It's nice to shoot in good lighting with no wind or heat/cold to contend with. It's even nicer when I can shoot at my own pace in those conditions. I can't repeat that score with zillions of people around and compound folks taking 45 seconds/shot. A 205 would be more likely than another 240-ish score. 

The indoor place has a JOAD Adult Achievement program. I might head over there tomorrow because supposedly one good recurve instructor shows up at those things (at my home range there are no good recurve/LB shooters). God knows I need the help if it's available.

And for the guys who are struggling in the 100s or lower 200s, keep the faith. If an idiot like me can shoot better than 200, there's hope for all of you. The only thing that might have helped me early in my archery life is a steady diet of stick and ball sports for the past 46 years.

Sorry for the vent/rant. I tried to tell my wife and dogs and they just looked at me funny (the wife more than the dogs).


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## arrowchucker222

My last years leagiue average was 255' personal,best 279. Std nfaa 20 yd target. I don't gap or shoot 3 under but I do kinda use the arrow but it's off to the side and low. I know I would shoot better 3 under but I just can't get the hang of it. Someday .....


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## huckleberg

centershot said:


> You'll get it! I have shot 2) 5X 25's - accidents of course, but still pretty cool.


NICE!!! I would be happy shooting that with a sight, let alone BB ...

I have so much to learn and am feeling stymied by my lack of access to coach/instruction around here. I have the STS book and whatever spare moments the good folks here have to coach me along ... but I am growing fairly rapidly and have a lot of crossover skills from firearms.

Archery is kind of my mid-life crisis. It has been a long time since I was good at something (I am very well respected professionally but that doesn't count). Rock climbing, motorcycling, building computers other random things I was once good at ... it's been years!


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## huckleberg

MikeG said:


> Sorry for the vent/rant. I tried to tell my wife and dogs and they just looked at me funny (the wife more than the dogs).


At least they acknowledged you.

I am using a sight right now, one of those el-cheapo sub $20 plastic jobbies. It works surprisingly well. I shoot instinctive thru the aperture, ie the sight is just used to edit my point of aim, and i try to ignore it as much as possible. I believe that it will help me learn to shoot instinctively; when I can shoot somewhat consistently instinctively, I will do it with great abandon ... so that it will help me to shoot with a sight. Sounds weird but I have had success doing something similar with rifles. Put the crappy sights on, shoot with it, then put on the nice target peeps and shoot better. Then take the peeps off and put the crappy ones on, and shoot that way for a while again, repeat.


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## Zurf

Good shooting Centershot. MikeG, my family doesn't listen about archery either.


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## wbrogdon

Okay, have read through the entire thread. I shot my first 300 round today. Using a 52" toelke kestrel @ 53#. Want to find my average so started at 10 yards. Felt like I didn't shoot as well as normal but still managed a 262. Am going to do at least two more 300's so I can get an average. Overall I really enjoyed shooting like this because I felt like I have something to guage progress with. If my next two 300's are over 240 I will back up to 15 yards.


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## MikeG

huckleberg said:


> At least they acknowledged you.
> 
> I am using a sight right now, one of those el-cheapo sub $20 plastic jobbies. It works surprisingly well. I shoot instinctive thru the aperture, ie the sight is just used to edit my point of aim, and i try to ignore it as much as possible. I believe that it will help me learn to shoot instinctively; when I can shoot somewhat consistently instinctively, I will do it with great abandon ... so that it will help me to shoot with a sight. Sounds weird but I have had success doing something similar with rifles. Put the crappy sights on, shoot with it, then put on the nice target peeps and shoot better. Then take the peeps off and put the crappy ones on, and shoot that way for a while again, repeat.


For normal shooting I really like going with no sights, but I could see it for training, no matter what your shooting discipline. 



Zurf said:


> Good shooting Centershot. MikeG, my family doesn't listen about archery either.


Wouldn't trade my girls for the world though. My wife is very tolerant of my childish activities like archery and golf. 

Took the Imperial to the range last night. Wind from 12 o'clock about 15 mph. Last year our league shot 300 rounds and recorded by ends and groups of 20 arrows. I still keep score that way. Started off with a 75 and 76, which put me on an ok/not great 225 pace. Then the bottom dropped out quickly. Last 4 ends were 15, 12, 17, 13. The more I tried to concentrate the worse I got, and I was all over the target face. A scorching 57 over the last 4 ends. Yikes! And the wind had zero effect. No idea what happened but I was laughing about it after the last arrow. No profanities, no brain explosions. Just got to take those kinds of days as they come.

237 today with the ILF. Stronger winds than yesterday and blowing from my 9 to 10 o'clock. Breaking it down into 20 arrow groups again, it was 79, 79, 79. Lots of 19 and 20 ends. The good shooters would be horrified with that score, but I was pretty happy with it considering the conditions and last night's trainwreck finish. Man this is fun...


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## David Alford

Any guesses as to what the best in the world could do with a short hunting bow? Say 54" or less, and 45 lbs or more?


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## steve morley

David Alford said:


> Any guesses as to what the best in the world could do with a short hunting bow? Say 54" or less, and 45 lbs or more?


My PB with 50# Longbow, woodies and split finger is 260, one of the Longbows did 265 in competition last year but I don't know the poundage he shot, I've shot 270 with my 45# Orion 3 under and Lightspeeds.


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## Zurf

Everyone has bad days. I wouldn't worry about the bottom dropping out one time. I hope to get to the range today, but will shootcthe 10 yard again because it's been more than a week. Closer to two.


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## centershot

Zurf said:


> Good shooting Centershot. MikeG, my family doesn't listen about archery either.


My family really does not care about this either - kind of why I started this thread a few years back! 

MikeG, you're shooting pretty good, when you break that 240 barrier your starting to get things under control. Time to work on a shot sequence. Kisik Lee describes the shot sequence very well in the book Archery by USA Archery.


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## centershot

David Alford said:


> Any guesses as to what the best in the world could do with a short hunting bow? Say 54" or less, and 45 lbs or more?


The best in the world shot a 299/300 at State/Sectionals this year with his target bow( https://www.nfaausa.com/sites/default/files/MA Indoor Section Results 2015 results sheet.pdf - look under Adult Male Trad). I'd bet he can shoot his hunting bow in the 280+ range. I personally shoot my hunting bow as well or sometimes better than my target bow. The extra weight on the fingers gives a cleaner release and the extra speed eliminates some of the highs and lows. But, it is heaver and I tire out quicker. Once you get your form and a solid shot sequence down all that changes is the gap and that is easily adjusted if you have control of your shot.

Take a look at the winning scores from some of the other regions. In many (most?) areas a pair of 240's would make you a State/Sectional Champion. Demmer is shooting scores that are unheard of - don't be discouraged, but use that as a gauge of what can really be done by a great shooter with a Trad Legal recurve.


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## Zurf

I went to the range. I had so many interruptions that it took me two hours to shoot 9 ends, and I never did finish the entire round. I didn't want to either. I was stinking up the range. Now I know not to try to shoot before a membership meeting.


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## David Alford

centershot said:


> The best in the world shot a 299/300 at State/Sectionals this year with his target bow( https://www.nfaausa.com/sites/default/files/MA Indoor Section Results 2015 results sheet.pdf - look under Adult Male Trad). I'd bet he can shoot his hunting bow in the 280+ range. I personally shoot my hunting bow as well or sometimes better than my target bow. The extra weight on the fingers gives a cleaner release and the extra speed eliminates some of the highs and lows. But, it is heaver and I tire out quicker. Once you get your form and a solid shot sequence down all that changes is the gap and that is easily adjusted if you have control of your shot.
> 
> Take a look at the winning scores from some of the other regions. In many (most?) areas a pair of 240's would make you a State/Sectional Champion. Demmer is shooting scores that are unheard of - don't be discouraged, but use that as a gauge of what can really be done by a great shooter with a Trad Legal recurve.


It's not the bow weight that is the problem, rather it is the bow length as well as other elements of short hunting bows that would make them more difficult to shoot as well as a tournament bow. A 20 pt. handicap for a short hunting bow seems reasonable, but I'd like to know if that is in fact the case for the very best.


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## huckleberg

Zurf said:


> Now I know not to try to shoot before a membership meeting.


Hey, Zurf ... I am in Fairfax ... what range do you go to?


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## Zurf

huckleberg said:


> Hey, Zurf ... I am in Fairfax ... what range do you go to?


Loudoun Izaak Walton. Send me a private message and I'd love to have you out as my guest. My 3D range is getting a facelift the next couple of weekends, best after that. If you're at the Fairfax or Centerville chapters, I'd love a chance to see your range and get some ideas. I have heard good things.


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## centershot

David Alford said:


> It's not the bow weight that is the problem, rather it is the bow length as well as other elements of short hunting bows that would make them more difficult to shoot as well as a tournament bow. A 20 pt. handicap for a short hunting bow seems reasonable, but I'd like to know if that is in fact the case for the very best.


I don't think that 299 was his norm, but his norm is around 290 (which is amazing). So a difference of 10-15 points per 300 (3-5%) is probably a closer estimate. 

While I am not one of the 'very best' I did shoot a nice string of 270+ rounds with my 60" Hoyt Dorado Hunting Rig last fall while getting ready for hunting. About the same scores that I shoot with my 68" Excel/SF target bow. I go back to: If you have control of your shot, then all that changes is the gap and maybe the amount of arrows you can shoot with control. Obviously if a 58" bow was more forgiving then you would see more 58" bows at the Olympics. There is a difference, but not as big a difference as you might think. Accuracy has a lot more to do with the archer than the equipment.


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## [email protected]

kenny.baptista2 said:


> Shooting 20 yards NAFF 300 RND last 2 rounds were 221, 218. Last 10 RND average was 213. Just went up to a 35# Samick saga from 25#. I've been shooting 1 year 4/4/15. 63 years old returning to archery after 35 year away. This is my new old man hobby.


Same age, but I put my recurve down 40 years ago and started back in June of last year. So far my best score is a 227. I stopped keeping score today and am going to concentrate on improving my form. I have a Samick with two sets of limbs, 40 and 50. Shot my best score with the 50s. Am going to limit my scorekeeping to one round a week, and see if I can't get to 240.


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## Azzurri

I worry about form and groups in practice and score in tournaments. I think keeping score in practice should be an event separated by periods because if you're trying to improve you need to give time for that to occur. Otherwise it's more like you're testing nerves or fatigue or variances in how well you shoot.

Also sometimes a form change or fresh start is 1 step back 2 forward and if you're too score driven the fact of a score dip from form work might scare you from making changes even if long term the caution might hinder more improvement.

I also think your awareness of which limbs scores are with is good because I have more than one setup and occasionally I test out what's working best. What limb gets the best scores. Leaves me least fatigued. Different risers or arrows. In OR, stabilizer weights.


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## David Alford

centershot said:


> I don't think that 299 was his norm, but his norm is around 290 (which is amazing). So a difference of 10-15 points per 300 (3-5%) is probably a closer estimate.
> 
> While I am not one of the 'very best' I did shoot a nice string of 270+ rounds with my 60" Hoyt Dorado Hunting Rig last fall while getting ready for hunting. About the same scores that I shoot with my 68" Excel/SF target bow. I go back to: If you have control of your shot, then all that changes is the gap and maybe the amount of arrows you can shoot with control. Obviously if a 58" bow was more forgiving then you would see more 58" bows at the Olympics. There is a difference, but not as big a difference as you might think. Accuracy has a lot more to do with the archer than the equipment.


Ok, but if you're saying a 10-15 pt. difference that's between his tournament bow and his hunting bow. But is it a really shortie like 52" or 54"? There is a big difference between those short bows and most regular hunting bows which are not that short. Even a 58" hunting bow is much more stable and has less finger pinch.


----------



## MikeG

centershot said:


> My family really does not care about this either - kind of why I started this thread a few years back!
> 
> MikeG, you're shooting pretty good, when you break that 240 barrier your starting to get things under control. Time to work on a shot sequence. Kisik Lee describes the shot sequence very well in the book Archery by USA Archery.


Thanks Center. 240 was an intermediate goal I set last summer before I jacked up my finger. Then again shooting a 240 by myself and at my own pace is way different I imagine than shooting in a competition heel-to-toe with 24 of my best friends on a line, dealing with distractions, and shooting at a slower pace. I certainly wouldn't expect to shoot that in an actual event. 

Shot a 229 today. Couldn't find the 5 ring, which has been balancing out the 3s. Nothing felt fluid. Needless to say it was a letdown from recent rounds. But during the last two ends I felt something different in my right shoulder. It felt more stable through the shot. I had the range to myself and decided to shoot another 60 round. Shot a 254 with my first 25 end mixed in there. _What?_ Never saw that coming. Yeah it doesn't count in my notebook, but it was fun. Maybe I need to shoot 70 warm up arrows instead of 10. The Novice Archer's Blues...what a weird sport.


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## grantmac

David Alford said:


> Ok, but if you're saying a 10-15 pt. difference that's between his tournament bow and his hunting bow. But is it a really shortie like 52" or 54"? There is a big difference between those short bows and most regular hunting bows which are not that short. Even a 58" hunting bow is much more stable and has less finger pinch.


I don't believe John shoots a bow that short for hunting since they simply aren't a good option when accuracy matters.

-Grant


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## David Alford

They are tough, but solvable. The first thing is to kill finger pinch...


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## centershot

Shot 278 19X last night. I have been working on the BEST method and am liking what is happening.


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## ranchoarcher

Based on that number, yeah, there is a lot to like. Does the instructor advocate a very slow progressive increase in expansion to release? I've noticed the slower I make the process of expansion the better it usually turns out. 

Alford, easy fix. Put a 2 or 3 inch metal tube or something over the string to make the part being gripped straight. With 3 under no changes would need made to the arrows either.


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## centershot

Instructor? I wish (I'm self taught, not by choice) - I have just been trying to shoot like Kisik Lee describes in the book "Archery" by USA Archery. Adding that to what I learned from "Shooting the Stickbow", what I have learned here on AT and compound experience. I think I need to take a little more time at 'holding' to aim with more precision then work into the expansion. The LAN-2 thing works like magic when I get it right. Last night I opened my stance and aimed left while drawing then come onto the target. I really like the tension that it put into my trunk and made for a nice solid foundation. I shot a few 3's that killed my score but they could all be traced back to the hold/aim portion of my shot sequence. I also really like the idea of getting inside the bow - I think with a little work those portions should become more automatic and then I can concentrate on the expansion and follow through. I'm starting to feel like DewayeR who mentioned that he has shot every 270+ score imaginable, but never cracked the 280 mark......hopefully BEST will get me over the hump.


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## Azzurri

McKinney =p


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## David Alford

I've done similar with plastic type of irrigation tubing. But I developed a better method by inventing my own release.


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## erotomaniac1928

Shot a 220 and 212 today. Steady improvement from the few 190's I posted a couple weeks ago


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## ranchoarcher

David Alford said:


> I've done similar with plastic type of irrigation tubing. But I developed a better method by inventing my own release.


 A better option is a 3 inch piece of carbon arrow shaft and half inserts glued in on both ends. Won't bend and only weighs about 25 grains. Slides right over the string so it can be put on or taken off easily and it can be used without a tab. You can shoot bare finger on a 45lb bow without a problem. Did it earlier today. Took me all of 5 minutes to make one for basically nothing from spare parts. No pinch and no release or tab required.


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## MikeG

246 on Wednesday
258 this evening


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## wbrogdon

Second try at 10 yards was 268 so figured it was time to move to 15 yards. Guess I found my shooting distance because first 300 round from 15 yards was a 228.


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## wbrogdon

A 243 from 15 today


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## erotomaniac1928

222 at 20yd yesterday.


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## centershot

Good shootin' fellas - when you get to 240 @ 20 you'll be shooting better than most. Many that have been at this for years and years can not break 240.


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## SupraFreak

*Feeling pretty good - my first week of shooting.*

My son and I just got our bows. He has had his for 3 weeks. I have had mine since last Tuesday (14/April) evening. These are our first ever compound bows. A little bit of Recurve shooting before but nothing seriously competitive. Son started JOAD yesterday and we both started shooting a beginner indoor target league Thursdays 16/April.

Last Thursday, having my bow for 2 days and shooting maybe 30 Arrows Tuesday evening and another 25-30 Wednesday evening, we shot 85 arrows Thursday evening. 10 practice just thowing them down range, 2 x 5 arrow practice ends and then a 60 arrow set. 
Considering I was still slightly adjusting sights while I was shooting, Im pretty proud of my first ever scored round of 226. Love my PSE Supra!
I shot outdoors at 40yds for the first time yesterday. Took ~20 arrows to find the right vertical on my sight and I was averaging 20-21pt ends. VERY happy!

My 12yr old son is shooting ~32#- heavier than any bow he has ever shot and scored a 94 during his first ever competitive 60 arrow shoot at 20yds. I believe as he builds up his strength his scores should improve dramatically.

HUGE THANK YOU to Spot Shooters Archery http://www.spotshooterarcherystore.com/ in Holly, MI. Jim Beasley and Dan have been incredibly helpful to both my son and I. Ill report each week after my League shoots.


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## Wobbley

228 the other day. Not in a competition or anything. Just practice at a local shop.

Question though. How long would you have to shoot the 5 arrows in an end during a competition?

This link indicates competitors had 4 minutes at the national competition. https://www.nfaausa.com/tournaments/indoor-national-rules

If I had 4 minutes per end that would be no problem at all.


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## centershot

If the tournament is going by NFAA rules then 4 minutes is normal. It's pretty rare when someone uses all 4 minutes at the shoots I have been to.


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## erotomaniac1928

centershot said:


> Good shootin' fellas - when you get to 240 @ 20 you'll be shooting better than most. Many that have been at this for years and years can not break 240.


Thanks Center. I've been shooting for roughly a year, but keeping score has really helped my progress. What would you consider some good benchmark scores? (i.e. 240 being competitive)


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## grantmac

erotomaniac1928 said:


> Thanks Center. I've been shooting for roughly a year, but keeping score has really helped my progress. What would you consider some good benchmark scores? (i.e. 240 being competitive)


250-260 would be competitive in most states unless you happen to live near the shooters who are putting down the really big scores.

240 after a year would be above average but not impossible. The second year I shot indoor I was averaging above 270 in practice with a high of 282 in competition. That was before the 12" stab came in.

-Grant


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## centershot

erotomaniac1928 said:


> Thanks Center. I've been shooting for roughly a year, but keeping score has really helped my progress. What would you consider some good benchmark scores? (i.e. 240 being competitive)


Take a look through some of these scores https://www.nfaausa.com/results/sectionalindoor some scores are very good, others are terrible. Kind of depends on where your at and who shows up I suppose. I think if your shooting 250-260's then you could shoot with anyone, anywhere and feel pretty good about your score and shooting. For me 270+ in competition is where I'm satisfied. Less than that and I probably let the environment get to me. I only shoot the State Shoot (usually as a guest) when it is held in my town and have never paid the extra $ to be included in Sectionals. I just do not see the point of paying $100+ in entry fees for one NFAA shoot per year and being the only Trad shooter there. (Not sure how often that happens in other areas also.) Other than that I just do a few local shoots each year. 

As Grant noted only the last 2 years have allowed a 12" stabilizer. It has been suggested that a stabilizer is worth 10 points, I feel that is a little high but they definitely help and if your going to be competitive you should take advantage of it.


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## StudentOfTheBow

*265* tonight on the standard 20 yard, NFAA 300 round. I was shooting "Barebow" by USA Archery standards. "Traditional" by NFAA rules, at least as I understand them.

It was the first time I've ever tried to shoot an NFAA 300 round. 

No, I'm not a total newbie. Until tonight, I've always shot the USA Archery (FITA) indoor round. In case any of you don't know, the difference is that USA Archery shoots from 18 meters (about 19.7 yards) and _always_ uses the 10-ring, 10 point, 5 color target that NFAA likes to call the "Vegas" target. USA Archery also shoots 3 arrows rather than 5 per end. 60 arrows takes 20 ends and gives you a 600 round rather than a 300.

But tonight, I got to the range and realized, "Drat! I forgot my target face!" I knew they would have some NFAA blue and whites at the range, and I'm planning to shoot in some NFAA competitions during the next indoor season, so I figured tonight was as good a time as any to get used to the NFAA round.

I have to say, when you're used to using a particular target face, there is more of a mental adjustment to be made to a new target than I would have guessed. The little bit of extra distance was no big deal to adjust to. But switching from the 5-color 10 ring target to the blue and white (it looks BLACK and white to me) 5 ring target was a much harder mental leap. It took a few extra "warm-up" ends before I was ready to start scoring.

Shooting 5 arrows per end does get you through the round faster, but you hear a lot more of those "smacks" that arrows make when they side-swipe another arrow. I wish I was good enough to use the 5-spot. Sometimes I shoot one of those just for fun, but I never keep score when I do.

I had always thought the NFAA target seemed more "forgiving". If I hit the outside edge of the white center, I get the same 5 points I get if I hit the dead center, whereas on the USA Archery target, the outside of the yellow only gives me 9, whereas the dead center gives me a 10.

However, the fact that the NFAA target only has a possible 5 points seems to makes bad shots harder to make up for. 

It's really amazing to me how much of a difference it makes to the dynamics of a shoot which of the two targets you use.

I'll be practicing on both targets this year to get ready for both USA Archery and NFAA.

Say! Was I supposed to move my target from the lower position to the upper position after 30 arrows? (USA Archery doesn't do that.) Oh well, I'll remember next time.


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## centershot

Shot 275 16X last night. We shoot the Vegas face until Vegas in the spring then switch over to the NFAA face in leagues and local tourneys. I find the Vegas face a little harder to shoot myself. Less arrows and tougher scoring make is a challenge. I average around 275 on the NFAA face and 390/450 (45 arrow rounds) on the Vegas face. It's all fun.


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## StudentOfTheBow

centershot said:


> If the tournament is going by NFAA rules then 4 minutes is normal. It's pretty rare when someone uses all 4 minutes at the shoots I have been to.


I'm just starting to explore NFAA, but USA Archery gives you two minutes for three arrows, and I've never seen anyone run out of time. 4 minutes for 5 arrows should be plenty. The time limits aren't meant to be a challenge. They are just meant to make sure people don't hog the shooting line all day and keep things moving along.



centershot said:


> We shoot the Vegas face until Vegas in the spring then switch over to the NFAA face in leagues and local tourneys. I find the Vegas face a little harder to shoot myself. Less arrows and tougher scoring make is a challenge. I average around 275 on the NFAA face and 390/450 (45 arrow rounds) on the Vegas face. It's all fun.


Well, that's interesting to know. Especially the part about the Vegas round being 45 arrows. I didn't know that.

I have to say, so far I still enjoy the FITA round (20 ends of 3 arrows on that Vegas face) more, but that may just be because I'm more used to it. Or maybe it's just that I'm a sucker for bright, primary colors. 

I'll still practice on both though. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## MikeG

centershot said:


> Shot 275 16X last night. We shoot the Vegas face until Vegas in the spring then switch over to the NFAA face in leagues and local tourneys. I find the Vegas face a little harder to shoot myself. Less arrows and tougher scoring make is a challenge. I average around 275 on the NFAA face and 390/450 (45 arrow rounds) on the Vegas face. It's all fun.


You're shooting some consistently excellent scores Center. By my guesstimation there's very little room for error once you get north of 270. 

Not so excellent here.
236 last night.
242 this evening.


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## wbrogdon

254 with 11 x's from 15 tonight


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## SupraFreak

*Beginner league week 2*



SupraFreak said:


> My son and I just got our bows. He has had his for 3 weeks. I have had mine since last Tuesday (14/April) evening. These are our first ever compound bows. A little bit of Recurve shooting before but nothing seriously competitive. Son started JOAD yesterday and we both started shooting a beginner indoor target league Thursdays 16/April.
> 
> Last Thursday, having my bow for 2 days and shooting maybe 30 Arrows Tuesday evening and another 25-30 Wednesday evening, we shot 85 arrows Thursday evening. 10 practice just thowing them down range, 2 x 5 arrow practice ends and then a 60 arrow set.
> Considering I was still slightly adjusting sights while I was shooting, Im pretty proud of my first ever scored round of 226. Love my PSE Supra!
> I shot outdoors at 40yds for the first time yesterday. Took ~20 arrows to find the right vertical on my sight and I was averaging 20-21pt ends. VERY happy!
> 
> My 12yr old son is shooting ~32#- heavier than any bow he has ever shot and scored a 181 during his first ever competitive 60 arrow shoot at 20yds. I believe as he builds up his strength his scores should improve dramatically.
> 
> HUGE THANK YOU to Spot Shooters Archery http://www.spotshooterarcherystore.com/ in Holly, MI. Jim Beasley and Dan have been incredibly helpful to both my son and I. Ill report each week after my League shoots.


Ok update for week 2. 
First I had to correct my sons score last week. He must-totaled and actually scored 181!

Had a great time tonight! Had my first ever 25pt end and shot 265 tonight! 39pt improvement from last week.
My son also improved with a 205, 24pt increase over last week!

Had my first mechanical issue tonight. My lower draw length cam came loose on my 10th end. All 5 arrows were suddenly 2 feet high! Got that fixed and then started having a weird problem where I would start to draw and nock would pop off the string. Weird.

Anyway loving archery and proud of the improvement!


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## grantmac

SupraFreak said:


> Ok update for week 2.
> First I had to correct my sons score last week. He must-totaled and actually scored 181!
> 
> Had a great time tonight! Had my first ever 25pt end and shot 265 tonight! 39pt improvement from last week.
> My son also improved with a 205, 24pt increase over last week!
> 
> Had my first mechanical issue tonight. My lower draw length cam came loose on my 10th end. All 5 arrows were suddenly 2 feet high! Got that fixed and then started having a weird problem where I would start to draw and nock would pop off the string. Weird.
> 
> Anyway loving archery and proud of the improvement!


The scores in this thread are all NFAA Traditional equipment.

A reasonable beginner score for a compound would be 290-295 with 35-40x.

-Grant


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## centershot

MikeG said:


> You're shooting some consistently excellent scores Center. By my guesstimation there's very little room for error once you get north of 270.



Still plenty of room for improvement (25 points!), but you are correct - things get more and more difficult as you raise the bar. One sloppy shot and bam your great score is toast. As suggested in Viper's book, getting to 240 is the first step, then 10 point increments after that come with work and knowledge. Each 10 point increment is a real milestone and something to be proud of. I'm still trying to break 280. There is always a carrot dangling in front of every good archer, what keeps them motivated. 

It looks like you are right on the bubble of 240 - that is very good shooting. It shows that your getting things figured out. When a miss happens you probably know why and can fix it on the next shot. Not sure how long you have been at this but I am on my 5th year - each time I shoot I find something to work on, always refining my shot and striving to shoot in total control. If you look back to when I started this thread I was shooting in the low 200's, little by little I have worked my way up to 270+. I doubt I'll ever be satisfied but I sure would like to put up a 280 before I croak. Back in the day 280+ was the cutoff for "AA" NFAA classification shooters, A difficult task then and still is today.


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## SupraFreak

grantmac said:


> The scores in this thread are all NFAA Traditional equipment.
> 
> A reasonable beginner score for a compound would be 290-295 with 35-40x.
> 
> -Grant


Not sure what beginners you are working with but the beginners Im shooting with are nowhere close to that. I think only 1 or 2 other shooters were higher than me last night and I had 11X. We have 8-14yr old beginners that are completely missing the target and this is a mixed league of compound and recurve. Also middle-aged and seniors who have never shot in a scoring league before and several who are shooting their first bows. Maybe Im hust posting in the wrong area.


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## grantmac

SupraFreak said:


> Not sure what beginners you are working with but the beginners Im shooting with are nowhere close to that. I think only 1 or 2 other shooters were higher than me last night and I had 11X. We have 8-14yr old beginners that are completely missing the target and this is a mixed league of compound and recurve. Also middle-aged and seniors who have never shot in a scoring league before and several who are shooting their first bows. Maybe Im hust posting in the wrong area.


Correct fit and instruction that is critical to newbie archers of all types but especially compound. I wouldn't move a new archer onto a scoring round until they had the basics solidified and that would take probably 4-6 sessions spread over a month or so. At that point I would expect them to progress into the 280-290 range within a few more sessions.

Shooting a 300 on the NFAA with a compound is about as hard as a 250-260 with trad equipment IMHO.

-Grant


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## MikeG

centershot said:


> Still plenty of room for improvement (25 points!), but you are correct - things get more and more difficult as you raise the bar. One sloppy shot and bam your great score is toast. As suggested in Viper's book, getting to 240 is the first step, then 10 point increments after that come with work and knowledge. Each 10 point increment is a real milestone and something to be proud of. I'm still trying to break 280. There is always a carrot dangling in front of every good archer, what keeps them motivated.
> 
> It looks like you are right on the bubble of 240 - that is very good shooting. It shows that your getting things figured out. When a miss happens you probably know why and can fix it on the next shot. Not sure how long you have been at this but I am on my 5th year - each time I shoot I find something to work on, always refining my shot and striving to shoot in total control. If you look back to when I started this thread I was shooting in the low 200's, little by little I have worked my way up to 270+. I doubt I'll ever be satisfied but I sure would like to put up a 280 before I croak. Back in the day 280+ was the cutoff for "AA" NFAA classification shooters, A difficult task then and still is today.


I did notice your scores in the beginning, and it's nice to see the steady progression. 

I started last May and had to stop in mid-late August due to a finger injury. Picked it back up in late January and got a target for my basement Super Bowl weekend. I still get finger pain, but it's not getting any worse like it did in the summer and doesn't bother me at all while shooting. 

But the better I score, the more appreciation I have for the higher scores. I shot a 251 tonight. Shot a 25 on my 5th end and promptly put my next arrow firmly in the 2 ring at about 10 o'clock on the target. Put the next in the 3 ring at 6 o'clock. Doh! I'm kind of like you though...no coach and kind of working it out on my own. To be quite honest, I have no idea what I'm doing other than trying to hit the 5 ring. I mean I have a repeatable shot sequence and thought process, and I'm aware of the form things that I'm supposed to be doing, but am I really doing what I'm supposed to? I have no idea. And I have to "relearn" my gap at 20 yards every time I shoot, which is why my first 4 or 5 shots are a mess (I normally give myself 10 warm-up shots before hanging the target). 

All that said, I'm pretty happy with my progress. If you had told me last June that I'd be creeping into the 240s after six months of shooting I would have taken that in a heartbeat. This is no quick gratification activity for me. I expect it to be tough and encounter a lot of fits and starts along the way. Of course I want to see how good I can get, and I do put a lot of effort and thought into shooting while I'm out there, but if I plateau at the 240-250 range, that's ok with me. I just love shooting arrows.


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## wbrogdon

First one from 20 yards tonight. 231 with 3 x's. Was on track to shoot over 240 but the 9th end put up a nice 14 lol.


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## MikeG

wbrogdon said:


> First one from 20 yards tonight. 231 with 3 x's. Was on track to shoot over 240 but the 9th end put up a nice 14 lol.


Haha...I'm laughing with you not at you. I completely missed the paper on my 56th arrow today and shot another 251. Oh what could have been. But 231 on your first crack at 20 is still a damn nice score.


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## centershot

Finally did it 284 25X last night with my Excel & SF limbs (NFAA Trad Legal). Shot 1) 22, 2) 23's all the rest 24's - 94, 94 and 96 on the last game, good X count. A very satisfying round (although the last few ends were pretty nerve racking).


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## wbrogdon

centershot said:


> Finally did it 284 25X last night with my Excel & SF limbs (NFAA Trad Legal). Shot 1) 22, 2) 23's all the rest 24's - 94, 94 and 96 on the last game, good X count. A very satisfying round (although the last few ends were pretty nerve racking).


congrats!!


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## Zurf

SupraFreak said:


> Not sure what beginners you are working with but the beginners Im shooting with are nowhere close to that. I think only 1 or 2 other shooters were higher than me last night and I had 11X. We have 8-14yr old beginners that are completely missing the target and this is a mixed league of compound and recurve. Also middle-aged and seniors who have never shot in a scoring league before and several who are shooting their first bows. Maybe Im hust posting in the wrong area.


Keep posting. I'm excited to hear of the progress being made. I think you and Grant may have different ideas of what "beginner" means and what "reasonable" mean.


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## Zurf

centershot said:


> Finally did it 284 25X last night with my Excel & SF limbs (NFAA Trad Legal). Shot 1) 22, 2) 23's all the rest 24's - 94, 94 and 96 on the last game, good X count. A very satisfying round (although the last few ends were pretty nerve racking).


Congratulations. That's a heck of a score!


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## rembrandt

When I left here and went back to a compound (Athens Afflixtion) I shot a 299 and missed with the last arrow.....it was a hair outside the white.....It was downright nothing but choking and I was sick.....I didn't pick up the bow for a week but I finally did and went out and shot a 300......its a great feeling to do that but I know I'll never achieve that with a trad bow......Won't happen so I will keep trying to break 260......


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## MikeG

Congrats Center! Great to see all that hard work pay off. Way to finish with that 96. Definitely an inspiration for us hacks.


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## wbrogdon

was on track to easily break 240, but after 6th end rug rest flew off of bow. couldn't recover. wound up with a 227 with 4x's


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## rsarns

centershot said:


> Finally did it 284 25X last night with my Excel & SF limbs (NFAA Trad Legal). Shot 1) 22, 2) 23's all the rest 24's - 94, 94 and 96 on the last game, good X count. A very satisfying round (although the last few ends were pretty nerve racking).



Congrats! I remember my first excursion into the 280's, It felt like I won the Olympics...LOL Takes a lot of dedication and practice.. well done. Its time to get outdoors though!


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## rsarns

SupraFreak said:


> Not sure what beginners you are working with but the beginners Im shooting with are nowhere close to that. I think only 1 or 2 other shooters were higher than me last night and I had 11X. We have 8-14yr old beginners that are completely missing the target and this is a mixed league of compound and recurve. Also middle-aged and seniors who have never shot in a scoring league before and several who are shooting their first bows. Maybe Im hust posting in the wrong area.


Grant is correct, I have had students within 2 weeks shooting mid 290's on the blueface at 20 with sights and compounds. First thing to do is make sure they are fitted properly, tuned bows and work on fundamentals and then practice.


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## centershot

rsarns said:


> Congrats! I remember my first excursion into the 280's, It felt like I won the Olympics...LOL Takes a lot of dedication and practice.. well done. Its time to get outdoors though!


Oh I'm more than ready to get outdoors! Just the wind was blowing about 30mph on my shooting night and I did not want to stay home........so the indoor range is better than nothing!

I find reaching the different scoring milestones to be very rewarding. Makes me feel sorry for the guys that don't shoot 'targets'. They really are missing out on a very important part of archery. I wonder if a person can actually reach their potential without it? If so, how do they know without a way to quantify? Anyway glad I found it and enjoy the process. Thanks for all the nice comments. If I can do it - anyone can.


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## Zurf

rsarns said:


> Grant is correct, I have had students within 2 weeks shooting mid 290's on the blueface at 20 with sights and compounds. First thing to do is make sure they are fitted properly, tuned bows and work on fundamentals and then practice.


The consistent thing I noticed between your post and Grant's is that it's referencing people who have coaches or teachers. I expect you both understand that is not the usual beginner. Many beginners get a 1/2 lesson with ten other people and then have to figure out the rest from Youtube and books. From the description of the league SupraFreak has given, it doesn't sound like the majority of the people shooting have had coaches. As another learner who is making do with Youtube and books, I find it interesting to hear about their progress. I think it's interesting to hear about the value of coaches too, but I haven't got one. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say, "It is not uncommon for a well-coached beginner to score in the 290's within a month" than to say "Beginners should be shooting in the 290s if they have a compound bow."


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## grantmac

Zurf said:


> The consistent thing I noticed between your post and Grant's is that it's referencing people who have coaches or teachers. I expect you both understand that is not the usual beginner. Many beginners get a 1/2 lesson with ten other people and then have to figure out the rest from Youtube and books. From the description of the league SupraFreak has given, it doesn't sound like the majority of the people shooting have had coaches. As another learner who is making do with Youtube and books, I find it interesting to hear about their progress. I think it's interesting to hear about the value of coaches too, but I haven't got one. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say, "It is not uncommon for a well-coached beginner to score in the 290's within a month" than to say "Beginners should be shooting in the 290s if they have a compound bow."


I have zero formal coaching with compound or recurve and I consistently shot 276-282 inner ten scoring on the WA face with 23xx shafts from the first night I started (DL too long by 1" as well). It took a year for me to break 270 FITA with a barebow recurve. I wouldn't consider myself exceptional except to say that I have gear which fits.

Beginners on the NFAA face really should be breaking 280 within a few weeks at most with a compound.

-Grant


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## Zurf

I think what 48 pages of scores and discussion shows is that your scores are remarkable.


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## grantmac

Zurf said:


> I think what 48 pages of scores and discussion shows is that your scores are remarkable.


Actually I think it's 48 pages of how people can try hard without necessarily succeeding and others modify their method/equipment to make success easier. I'm not an exceptional archer, but I do set up my equipment to be as easy to shoot as possible.
Getting point-on at 20yds was worth over 40 points for me. First time I used arrows that did it was over 240 FITA, up from the 190s. When you have a very concrete aiming solution analyzing your misses is a lot easier.

-Grant


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## centershot

grantmac said:


> Getting point-on at 20yds was worth over 40 points for me. First time I used arrows that did it was over 240 FITA, up from the 190s. When you have a very concrete aiming solution analyzing your misses is a lot easier.
> 
> -Grant


I never have been able to get my 'point on' close to the center - I'm still about 2" below the paper with long arrows, 33# bow, 3 under, etc. Changing my anchor to get that high has always been too uncomfortable to be repeatable so I just deal with the gap. Stringwalking works very well but sends you into the barebow class (along with the compounds) according to the NFAA so I just deal with the gap.


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## SupraFreak

*Beginner archer - league week 3 update*

We had a great night last night!

I shot 269 with 12X and 3x24pt ends. (so thats a 3 week scores of 226, 265, 269). Only 6 3's on the target. 4 were from the 2 warm up rounds. Feeling stronger and more confident with every week of shooting. 

My son shot even better! 247 (3 weeks of 181, 205 and 247). A 42pt improvement from last week! 12X's as well! He made a comment to me on the way home "Ya know dad, a bunch of people were shooting way too fast. When I was taking my time, I was shooting really well!"

Should be getting my home range targets in the next couple of days which will only increase improvement.

Have a great day!


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## rsarns

SupraFreak said:


> We had a great night last night!
> 
> I shot 269 with 12X and 3x24pt ends. (so thats a 3 week scores of 226, 265, 269). Only 6 3's on the target. 4 were from the 2 warm up rounds. Feeling stronger and more confident with every week of shooting.
> 
> My son shot even better! 247 (3 weeks of 181, 205 and 247). A 42pt improvement from last week! 12X's as well! He made a comment to me on the way home "Ya know dad, a bunch of people were shooting way too fast. When I was taking my time, I was shooting really well!"
> 
> Should be getting my home range targets in the next couple of days which will only increase improvement.
> 
> Have a great day!


.......


----------



## grantmac

centershot said:


> I never have been able to get my 'point on' close to the center - I'm still about 2" below the paper with long arrows, 33# bow, 3 under, etc. Changing my anchor to get that high has always been too uncomfortable to be repeatable so I just deal with the gap. Stringwalking works very well but sends you into the barebow class (along with the compounds) according to the NFAA so I just deal with the gap.


I was getting PO at 20 with a much lower anchor then I currently use and I hadn't thought to mess with nocking point yet.

My POD with 29" arrows going 210fps is 55m with my current highest anchor, so if I can do it then almost anyone can.

-Grant


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## Zurf

grantmac said:


> Actually I think it's 48 pages of how people can try hard without necessarily succeeding and others modify their method/equipment to make success easier. I'm not an exceptional archer, but I do set up my equipment to be as easy to shoot as possible.
> Getting point-on at 20yds was worth over 40 points for me. First time I used arrows that did it was over 240 FITA, up from the 190s. When you have a very concrete aiming solution analyzing your misses is a lot easier.
> 
> -Grant


Yep. That could be. I think form is the first thing, before you can get "easy", and beginners are still learning form. Once you've got a consistent form, though, yes I'd think having your equipment well tuned would help a tremendous amount. I don't think I'm at a point where tuning my equipment is going to make a big difference, as I'm still noticing inconsistency in my form. Same's true for the other beginners I shoot with.


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## centershot

grantmac said:


> I was getting PO at 20 with a much lower anchor then I currently use and I hadn't thought to mess with nocking point yet.
> 
> My POD with 29" arrows going 210fps is 55m with my current highest anchor, so if I can do it then almost anyone can.
> 
> -Grant


I have tried everything I can think of to get my point on the paper at 20, but in the end it has not been worth the trade off. A 12" gap is about where I'm at with my target rig, it's manageable.


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## grantmac

centershot said:


> I have tried everything I can think of to get my point on the paper at 20, but in the end it has not been worth the trade off. A 12" gap is about where I'm at with my target rig, it's manageable.





Zurf said:


> Yep. That could be. I think form is the first thing, before you can get "easy", and beginners are still learning form. Once you've got a consistent form, though, yes I'd think having your equipment well tuned would help a tremendous amount. I don't think I'm at a point where tuning my equipment is going to make a big difference, as I'm still noticing inconsistency in my form. Same's true for the other beginners I shoot with.



Reply to both:

Getting PO the paper, preferably the middle is definitely the #1 way to making improvement indoors. Whether that takes equipment, form or tuning changes is individual but getting there is critical.

I shot 610gr arrows, 34" long out of 30# limbs to get PO at 20 and it worked just fine.

-Grant


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## centershot

grantmac said:


> I shot 610gr arrows, 34" long out of 30# limbs to get PO at 20 and it worked just fine.
> 
> -Grant


How did those work on a 'weak' shot? When I tried something similar I found out how important a consistent draw length and release were! Real eye opener. My form and sequence are better now, I may have to try heavy arrows again.


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## grantmac

centershot said:


> How did those work on a 'weak' shot? When I tried something similar I found out how important a consistent draw length and release were! Real eye opener. My form and sequence are better now, I may have to try heavy arrows again.


PB of 282 in competition before the stabilizer was allowed using only internal weights.

Weak shots were not the limiting factor, TP was.

-Grant


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## MikeG

Tuesday -- 254
Wednesday -- 246
Tonight -- 251


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## davidflorida

Lost my 20 yard range so i am shooting in my yard . 18 yards is all i can get till i move a fence . But i broke 200 hundred today . Paper tuned some 600 spine carbons and that made a nice difference from the german wood shafts i was shooting , gotta get my fence done so i can get back to 20 . Congrats to all you guys putting in all the work and thanks for the insight .


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## erotomaniac1928

235 @ 20 today. Hoping to break 240 soon


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## davidflorida

200 and 213 @ 18 yards , hoping to move my fence this weekend and get back to 20 yards .If I shoot a 200 score @ 20 I will b very happy . I seem to have found a decent anchor point and if i get a good release i am staying in the 4 ring .


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## davidflorida

Got my fence done so i now have 20 yard range in my yard . Got to shoot 1 round each the last 3 days finishing each right at dark thirty . Shot a 183 - 184 - and a 196 tonight , 200 this week !


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## centershot

277 last night, not my best effort. Crazy how this game grows with you. A year ago I would have been very pleased with that score, now I'm disappointed in myself.


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## Zurf

Haven't shot in over two weeks. I'm sure it's going to be really, really ugly next time I get out. I think 277 sounds fantastic!! Eager to hear how getting the fence down will help you davidflorida. Opportunity to practice every day is something that makes me really, really jealous.


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## mrjeffro

Being that it is still turkey season here I used my 50# hunting bow and shot a 254. Got shaky towards the end. 

Will switch to the lighter bow next month.


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## Azzurri

mrjeffro said:


> Being that it is still turkey season here I used my 50# hunting bow and shot a 254. Got shaky towards the end.
> 
> Will switch to the lighter bow next month.


I think the 300 score is itself a useful basis for figuring out what makes sense on draw weight. You need what you need for hunting but one simple way for a target shooter to figure out draw weight is shoot 300s on different limbs different days (with enough rest it's similar conditions) and you will probably find out one is both easier and scores better. The score difference puts an objective punctuation point on what is often done by feel. My experience past a certain weight point I might start faster but finish exhausted and hand back all the gained early points plus some. Like a holistic version of target as teacher.


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## davidflorida

Got home to late to shoot yesterday. Turkey season got in the way of doing much practice the prior 6 weeks or so. Did get 1 -shotgun- but could never get the second to close out the season. I hunted till noon then back to camp for lunch ,nap and then I would take my bow and go scout and stump shoot or should I say cow paddy shoot ,was a good time. Got a lot of honey do list after eight months of hunting, and bow season starts in august.


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## davidflorida

Shot a 195 and broke the 200 mark with a 216 ,switched to my shakespare tioga @ 40 # for another 50 shots just to work on strength . 5 # felt like a big difference at first but got settled in towards the end . Very happy to break the 200


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## rembrandt

My first time to shoot the NFAA target in over three years.......I shot a 187 today with one end at 22 and I had 5 Xs......Not too bad for a start after so long neglecting the recurve......I will break 200 in a few more days if the weather permits........


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## rembrandt

Well I did break the 200 mark today.....nothing to brag about but the wind was blowing and I had to fight that but I shot a 202 and that's a start.....I only had 2 Xs and that's not good but in one end I had 3 arrows in the 5 ring.........I said I had two 189s prior to this but I noticed one was a 187 so I was wrong on that but a 187, then a 189 and on the third time out a 202......Gotta keep improving and get back to the 240 average............


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## Zurf

I think I'm going to order some lighter spined arrows. See how that does. I keep going down, down, down in spine. It's getting expensive!


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## [email protected]

My efforts have been between 228 and 160 since I went back to traditional 11 months ago. It's hard to swallow the groups I shoot now, compared to what I did 40 years ago. Back then it was palm sized groups, now it's buckshot. However, I keep plugging -- looking for that magical site picture that will keep them in and around the white. Every time I get close to right, the next day it falls apart. The great thing is not whether I achieve my goals, but that I still enjoy flinging arrows. Nobody out there to beat but myself, and that's always doable.


----------



## rembrandt

[email protected] said:


> My efforts have been between 228 and 160 since I went back to traditional 11 months ago. It's hard to swallow the groups I shoot now, compared to what I did 40 years ago. Back then it was palm sized groups, now it's buckshot. However, I keep plugging -- looking for that magical site picture that will keep them in and around the white. Every time I get close to right, the next day it falls apart. The great thing is not whether I achieve my goals, but that I still enjoy flinging arrows. Nobody out there to beat but myself, and that's always doable.


Enjoying flinging arrows is the key......I love it and I almost got rid of all my archery gear inc. the trad bow......I would have too if it hadn't been for some on here telling me to keep the trad if I wanted to come back.....I did and now I love it again....I don't miss the wheelie bow and I'm super glad I came to the Traditional Forum before I gave up on archery all together.....


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## centershot

[email protected] said:


> My efforts have been between 228 and 160 since I went back to traditional 11 months ago. It's hard to swallow the groups I shoot now, compared to what I did 40 years ago. Back then it was palm sized groups, now it's buckshot. However, I keep plugging -- looking for that magical site picture that will keep them in and around the white. Every time I get close to right, the next day it falls apart. The great thing is not whether I achieve my goals, but that I still enjoy flinging arrows. Nobody out there to beat but myself, and that's always doable.


Sounds like a Toby Keith song "I ain't as good as I once was", .... You'll get it back, take your time, pay attention to your shot sequence and enjoy the ride (again).


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## Zurf

180. Suckaroo. Good thing was that a coach was there and gave me some pointers. I was already tired and had put my bow away, but it was good to get some skilled assistance.


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## davidflorida

208 - 215 with the sage @ 35 # switched to the tioga @ 40 # 2 nd practice shot bow goes out of my hand , shoot a few more and i keep whacking my wrist , that never happened before. Im guessing my grip got so relaxed with the sage that i started to tork on the tioga after it went flying . Ended up shooting 150 with the tioga . Might put the 50 # limbs on the sage tomorrow after a couple of rounds with the 35 # limbs .


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## davidflorida

192 - 198- broke over the mendoza line with a 204 . Think i will stay with one bow for a bit .


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## rembrandt

I went out this evening after a horrible day yesterday and I felt a lot better.....shot a 210 which gives me two over 200 scores in the last three days.....I'm climbing the ladder and it does slow down the higher you get but I foresee some 230 and above soon.....Its not easy for an old man but I think I can have some scores above 250 in the future......


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## grantmac

Getting my point on the target added 80 points in six months.

Grant


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## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> Getting my point on the target added 80 points in six months.
> 
> 
> Grant


I've got to learn how to do that......If I could add 40 on mine I would be as happy as a possum in a hen house....Do you have any advice on that....?


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## grantmac

Technique: higher anchor, three under.
Equipment: longer, heavier arrow, softer rest wire and/or an artificially high nock point.

Grant


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## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> Technique: higher anchor, three under.
> Equipment: longer, heavier arrow, softer rest wire and/or an artificially high nock point.
> 
> Grant


I do anchor high and I use three under all the time......I leave the arrow at full length because I draw back close to 30" when I use the back tension......I have 125gr tips on my arrows and they perform well it seems....I have a single wire rest that falls ahead and out of the way I assume on release......not sure about the nock point cause John at Champion's Archery put the two nocks on the string........


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## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> I do anchor high and I use three under all the time......I leave the arrow at full length because I draw back close to 30" when I use the back tension......I have 125gr tips on my arrows and they perform well it seems....I have a single wire rest that falls ahead and out of the way I assume on release......not sure about the nock point cause John at Champion's Archery put the two nocks on the string........


What is your current point on distance or gap at 20 yds?

Grant

Nobody but you can know where to put your nock locators. I suggest you tune that yourself.


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## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> What is your current point on distance or gap at 20 yds?
> 
> Grant
> 
> Nobody but you can know where to put your nock locators. I suggest you tune that yourself.


As God as my witness, I wish I could tell you that but when I get near the white area I seem to lose the knowledge where the tip is and start concentrating on the Xring....I will try to take note of the tip locale next time out.....doesn't that mean where the arrow arcs on the way to the target...? I call that spot shooting but now days I believe they call it gap shooting.....right?


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## davidflorida

Shot a 205 and a 216 next goal 220 got on a roll where i put 7 out of eight in the five ring , that felt . Hard to maintain the concentration . For the guys putting up great numbers or just shooting in clubs and leagues that must be a whole different game i loose concentration on a dog barking , wife talking , cant imagine having a crowd watching every shot .


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## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> As God as my witness, I wish I could tell you that but when I get near the white area I seem to lose the knowledge where the tip is and start concentrating on the Xring....I will try to take note of the tip locale next time out.....doesn't that mean where the arrow arcs on the way to the target...? I call that spot shooting but now days I believe they call it gap shooting.....right?


It's where the point of the arrow is touching on the target during the aiming phase of the shot sequence.

Until I have that information all we are talking about is the length of a piece of string so to speak.

-Grant


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## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> It's where the point of the arrow is touching on the target during the aiming phase of the shot sequence.
> 
> Until I have that information all we are talking about is the length of a piece of string so to speak.
> 
> -Grant


that's what I figured.....and when I shoot today I will definitely give you that info.....I want to learn that process and it will be my way of shooting from then on....It sounds mythodical to me but what do I know......when shooting the stick bows,I become a mental 2000 lb gorilla......It seems to me that gap shooting will also help erase some if not all
of target panic but that's for me to discover........I've got to eliminate the bow drop and the coming up from below and firing when the bow is moving.......not good!


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## davidflorida

I am with you on the bow drop ,If I can keep it steady and follow thru with out dropping at the shot it seems pretty decent.


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## davidflorida

Zurf did you get the lighter spined arrows.


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## erotomaniac1928

Shot a 222 yesterday. About a 10 point drop from my average since I started playing around with a middle finger anchor.


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## centershot

Stick with it, it will come to you and when it does the smaller gap will be well worth the effort. There really is no 'instant gratification' in trad. Every point has to be earned the hard way.


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## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> that's what I figured.....and when I shoot today I will definitely give you that info.....I want to learn that process and it will be my way of shooting from then on....It sounds mythodical to me but what do I know......when shooting the stick bows,I become a mental 2000 lb gorilla......It seems to me that gap shooting will also help erase some if not all
> of target panic but that's for me to discover........I've got to eliminate the bow drop and the coming up from below and firing when the bow is moving.......not good!


Everyone is different, but I do best using a figure-8 sight picture such as you would using a post front-sight on a rifle or pistol. Getting the bow to shoot to that point of aim can be a challenge but has paid-off in points for me. Also that point of aim can be effective for ASA 3D since you are basically in the spot for anything but the shortest and longest shots.

-Grant


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## Azzurri

erotomaniac1928 said:


> Shot a 222 yesterday. About a 10 point drop from my average since I started playing around with a middle finger anchor.


In specific I found that anchor shrank my BB groups and made me more accurate.

In general I like to give things time. You gotta commit to it hard. If after a while it's not working only then do I revert back.


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## erotomaniac1928

grantmac said:


> Everyone is different, but I do best using a figure-8 sight picture such as you would using a post front-sight on a rifle or pistol. Getting the bow to shoot to that point of aim can be a challenge but has paid-off in points for me. Also that point of aim can be effective for ASA 3D since you are basically in the spot for anything but the shortest and longest shots.
> 
> -Grant


Any illustration of this method?


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## grantmac

erotomaniac1928 said:


> Any illustration of this method?


I'm not sure what you mean by illustration. You simply arrange your technique and equipment to shoot point-on at or slightly beyond 20yds depending on if you like to hold in or under the center.

-Grant


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## erotomaniac1928

The figure-8 description threw me off. Nevermind that makes sense


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## Zurf

davidflorida said:


> Zurf did you get the lighter spined arrows.


Not yet. Thanks for asking. Last time I was out, I had a couple arrows that were consistently "flyers" away from the rest of the group (you know, if you can call it a group...). Upon closer inspection, it looked like the points were slightly larger on those two. I have some carbon arrows and some aluminum arrows, and all of them are 9/32 diameter. So I bought three sets of points to test, some 100 gr - 125 gr - and 145 gr. I was really excited to find the 145 gr in 9/32". 

I'm hoping to get to the range some time this weekend to try the three sets of weights to mimic changes in spine. If I see a difference, I'll get some 1816 aluminum arrows. 

I've been practicing the change to shot sequence that the coach I mentioned in another thread suggested, and am eager to give a try with bow in hand. The only thing is that I think it's going to wind up with me having a different anchor point, so I'll probably wind up with getting worse before I get better. 

- Zurf


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## rembrandt

It was windy out today but a friend came over and shot with me.....I shot a 201 which was quite a surprise considering the distraction and the wind........I will get better in a week or two and then I hope to get back to my 240 average.......


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## davidflorida

I had a hard time getting dialed in today . Back under the mendoza line again . For me i played a lot of baseball that is why i reference the mendoza line 200 was the mendoza line named him for not keeping his batting avg above 200 . Also like throwing a ball you really don't aim the ball you just let your hand eye coordination take over . Hope i pitch better tomorrow . Zurf good luck getting dialed in , it helped me to go from wood arrows that where all different weights to a consistent carbon arrow. And rem bout got me and my dogs sent to a long dirt nap with a nice s fla thunderstorm .


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## Zurf

Sorry about your dog.


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## rembrandt

Well, I went out again today and it was cool and windy, not a good combo but I shot a 219 with 5xs......I had 6 of the last 7 ends in the 20s......I loved that and if I had shot better in my first 5 ends I'd been in the 230s but that's the way it goes.......I was happy with the 219 and I did have one "0"......


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## Corene1

Pretty excited today, I went out to do some form practice and after about 30arrows decided to shoot a 300 round and shot my first 280. I even managed to shoot one 25 point round. A happy camper for sure. Now if I could only do it around people. Tomorrow is a NFAA field round with an additional 14 target animal round for our local open shoot at the range.


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## erotomaniac1928

280 is damned impressive! Some elite company in this thread


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## Corene1

Thanks! It was just one of those days where everything just falls into place. Shooting by yourself is so much easier than on a line with others though.


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## Zurf

Wow! That's good shooting!


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## [email protected]

I have been in the doldrums for about a month with scores between 190 and 210. Shot a good round today, however -- 225 that included a couple of zeros. Most encouraged by the last 3 ends -- 23, 22, and 20. After 11 months of my reintroduction to instintive, I think I'm finally starting to see a 20 yard sight picture. The goal remains at 240. Should that happen, I will bump it up to keeping everything in the four and five. Lofty stuff, but I did it routinely 40 years ago.


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## rembrandt

[email protected] said:


> I have been in the doldrums for about a month with scores between 190 and 210. Shot a good round today, however -- 225 that included a couple of zeros. Most encouraged by the last 3 ends -- 23, 22, and 20. After 11 months of my reintroduction to instintive, I think I'm finally starting to see a 20 yard sight picture. The goal remains at 240. Should that happen, I will bump it up to keeping everything in the four and five. Lofty stuff, but I did it routinely 40 years ago.


The higher the score the harder it is to repeat or best it.......I had a 240 average and I had some over 250 but they were rare.....I shooting outdoors in the elements and that is a handicap but its what I have and I love it.....I quit and went back to the compound a few years back and now I'm having to climb up the ladder again.....Its a hoot however and I am having a ball doing it....When you get to the stage where you know where the arrow is gonna hit or very close to that.....it is FUN......


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## centershot

Good for you Corene! 280 is a big mile stone to reach. It was harder for me to reach 280 NFAA Trad legal than shoot 60X 300 Freestyle.


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## rembrandt

Yesterday and today was fun and I can see progress.....I had a 231 and followed with a 224......I can see where I need to improve. I need to get my X count up, 5 in the 231 and 8 in the 224......I also need to rid myself of 1s and 2s....I have a tendency to creep if I hold on target too long and the bottom falls out with the arrow......Gotta get the arm up and steady thru out the release and I've got to get rid of the feeling of TP.....I need to get my 20s up like 8 to 10 out of the 12 ends......


----------



## centershot

rembrandt said:


> Yesterday and today was fun and I can see progress.....I had a 231 and followed with a 224......I can see where I need to improve. I need to get my X count up, 5 in the 231 and 8 in the 224......I also need to rid myself of 1s and 2s....I have a tendency to creep if I hold on target too long and the bottom falls out with the arrow......Gotta get the arm up and steady thru out the release and I've got to get rid of the feeling of TP.....I need to get my 20s up like 8 to 10 out of the 12 ends......


Slow down a bit - rest a few seconds between shots. Clear your mind, take a couple deep breaths - then make a very deliberate, well executed shot. If at any point in the process you feel 'out of control' or your mind wanders from the task at hand, let down and start over. If you can do that for a full 60 shots I bet you will have a new personal best to beat next time.


----------



## Azzurri

rembrandt said:


> Yesterday and today was fun and I can see progress.....I had a 231 and followed with a 224......I can see where I need to improve. I need to get my X count up, 5 in the 231 and 8 in the 224......I also need to rid myself of 1s and 2s....I have a tendency to creep if I hold on target too long and the bottom falls out with the arrow......Gotta get the arm up and steady thru out the release and I've got to get rid of the feeling of TP.....I need to get my 20s up like 8 to 10 out of the 12 ends......


Fitness and/or arrow count is often one reason people make their flyers. My numbers tend to reduce the more I shoot. People tend to forget it's a sport and not just technical.
X count to me is technical. You earn that with form. But you can improve your score from reducing flyers. I've done 245-250 with single digit xs and that's just 4 or 5 pretty much all day, churn your 20s out. Xs are nice but keeping it cleaner will improve your score quickly, and a lot of that like I said is actually fitness, how you hold up over the ends. If I throw out a score in the 10s it usually coincides with getting tired and dumb.

I agree with pacing during a round. Particularly outdoor target I treat that as religion. Shooting too fast will drag down stamina over time. But you can build stamina before the round to try and be ready.


----------



## MikeG

I definitely hit a wall in terms of scores in spite of feeling better about my shooting, but the scorecard and target don't lie. 250, 238, 242, rinse and repeat many times.

I realized last Thursday that I'm a dope. I know this is probably readily apparent to most shooters new and veteran alike, but after way too many fliers I noticed that if I place all my focus and concentration on the X and nothing else after I've settled in at anchor, I'm a lot more accurate and consistent when shooting for score. I somehow got away from that and started thinking about my bowhand pressure, or release, or back tension as the arrow left my hand. I know there's a time to work on form (usually after a scoring round for me...and believe me, my form needs a ton of work), and I really enjoy that part of shooting, but thinking about my form when arrows count for a score is a recipe for disaster. 

A 3 week long mental blunder on my part that would take a normal person about 10 arrows to figure out. Last 3 scores were 255, 250, 259. Still a long way to go, but at least a step forward after some pretty ragged shooting. 

And great shooting Corene. Congrats!


----------



## davidflorida

I switched gloves and that has and hurt, fingers feel good and my scores went down. New glove is going to take a little time. The red fish where calling from everglades national park and that pretty much shot my shooting for the weekend. Shot a 188 Friday after work and a 199 Monday . Today after work I put up a 219 my best yet but shot another round and put up a 176 my lowest score in 12 rounds . I joined the archery club last week and looking forward to shooting at some different targets. They have a 3-d shoot in 2 weeks 25 roving targets. I am at a loss for what to expect there? And congratulation on the scores that you guys are putting up. Reading back on this thread gives me hope.


----------



## Corene1

MikeG said:


> I definitely hit a wall in terms of scores in spite of feeling better about my shooting, but the scorecard and target don't lie. 250, 238, 242, rinse and repeat many times.
> 
> I realized last Thursday that I'm a dope. I know this is probably readily apparent to most shooters new and veteran alike, but after way too many fliers I noticed that if I place all my focus and concentration on the X and nothing else after I've settled in at anchor, I'm a lot more accurate and consistent when shooting for score. I somehow got away from that and started thinking about my bowhand pressure, or release, or back tension as the arrow left my hand. I know there's a time to work on form (usually after a scoring round for me...and believe me, my form needs a ton of work), and I really enjoy that part of shooting, but thinking about my form when arrows count for a score is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> 
> 
> A 3 week long mental blunder on my part that would take a normal person about 10 arrows to figure out. Last 3 scores were 255, 250, 259. Still a long way to go, but at least a step forward after some pretty ragged shooting.
> 
> And great shooting Corene. Congrats!


 A long while ago I was taking my son up to the Olympic training center in Chula Vista and we got to work with a bunch of the top level shooters and coaches. One thing I remember them saying is that the conscious mind can only focus on one individual thing at a time everything else is subconcious. So when you practice pick something and work on it and it only , be it release, hand position ,bow arm, head position, shot timing even eyes shut blank bale shooting. Don't shoot for score while you practice, shoot form. In time each and every aspect of the technique will become subconscious. Then when you shoot for score put your focus on the spot and let the technique be subconscious. Kind of an abbreviated description but it works.


----------



## MikeG

Corene1 said:


> A long while ago I was taking my son up to the Olympic training center in Chula Vista and we got to work with a bunch of the top level shooters and coaches. One thing I remember them saying is that the conscious mind can only focus on one individual thing at a time everything else is subconcious. So when you practice pick something and work on it and it only , be it release, hand position ,bow arm, head position, shot timing even eyes shut blank bale shooting. Don't shoot for score while you practice, shoot form. In time each and every aspect of the technique will become subconscious. Then when you shoot for score put your focus on the spot and let the technique be subconscious. Kind of an abbreviated description but it works.


I've read similar advice and agree. Funny enough that when my head is screwed on straight it's tougher to concentrate on one form thing than it is to concentrate on the X when I'm shooting for scores. I'm a bit of a scatterbrain on the driving range as well, so that doesn't surprise me.


----------



## rembrandt

MikeG said:


> I definitely hit a wall in terms of scores in spite of feeling better about my shooting, but the scorecard and target don't lie. 250, 238, 242, rinse and repeat many times.
> 
> I realized last Thursday that I'm a dope. I know this is probably readily apparent to most shooters new and veteran alike, but after way too many fliers I noticed that if I place all my focus and concentration on the X and nothing else after I've settled in at anchor, I'm a lot more accurate and consistent when shooting for score. I somehow got away from that and started thinking about my bowhand pressure, or release, or back tension as the arrow left my hand. I know there's a time to work on form (usually after a scoring round for me...and believe me, my form needs a ton of work), and I really enjoy that part of shooting, but thinking about my form when arrows count for a score is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> A 3 week long mental blunder on my part that would take a normal person about 10 arrows to figure out. Last 3 scores were 255, 250, 259. Still a long way to go, but at least a step forward after some pretty ragged shooting.
> 
> And great shooting Corene. Congrats!


You are absolutely right.......Its concentrating on where you want the arrow to hit that is the big difference.....Today I stunk it up and it was credited to two things.....being tired after 180 shots yesterday and my working on form instead of scoring......Think I'll take tomorrow off and come back Fri if weather permits.....We just had a gully washer......


----------



## rembrandt

BTW.....I shot a 202 today and it was NO fun.....I think my muscles were exhausted even tho I felt fine.....My shots were all over the place and I was resigned to frustration all day.......I had one 20 score......and 3xs......It was a humbling event......


----------



## rembrandt

I suck.....a 208 with a 12 and a 14......only two in the 20s and I had 5 Xs......I can't seem to get over dropping the bow and TP.......I had two 0s and that's from flinging the arrow on release......Boy do I have some work to do.....maybe I should drink a 6 pack before the next round........


----------



## Corene1

Have you ever thought of shooting just the tiniest of gaps at 20 yards. When I shoot the field round my point on is 46 yards. Why, because there are no 46 yard distances in the field or hunter round. I can push the tip of the arrow to just under the spot, leaving a tiny gap, and hold it all day long but if I try to touch the spot it is like one of those magnets that push each other away.


----------



## cubefx

Stuck in high 240's. Once in a while shooting low 250's. Need to change something.....


----------



## rembrandt

cubefx said:


> Stuck in high 240's. Once in a while shooting low 250's. Need to change something.....


that's where I was when I quit and went back to the compound.....right now I'd like to be where you are. I know I can do it cause I was there before but its got a lot to do with form and confidence.....


----------



## MikeG

Got my birthday present in the mail on Thursday and Friday--Samick Athlete riser on clearance plus Memorial Day promotion from LAS for $270 and MK Inpers limbs. Ironically a Samick Sage on my birthday last year started this archery insanity for me, and my first shot from 20 yards flew straight into the wooden target frame!

Shot 257 today with the Samick and my Axiom + limbs. Not a personal best, but close. And if I recall correctly it may be the first time no end was lower than 20. What a nice, solid riser (for me, anyway). The wood grip, heavier weight, and overall balance all seem better than my Horizon and soon-to-be-for-sale Forged Plus.

I got the Inpers to help out with my 40+ yard shooting (and they're an improvement...40 feels like 30, 50 feels like 40, and 60...errr we won't talk about 60 yet...still unsure of my best reference point). Shot a few ends at 20 with them while I was doing form stuff before leaving. Not too shabby at 20 either. Not sure if they'll replace the Axioms for 30 yards and closer, but I'll score a couple rounds to see how it goes.


----------



## rembrandt

Early this morning I shot a 203......not good but I'm still in the process of redoing my form and finding the right anchor......It is fun and when it happens I will know it and my scores will jump into the 240s and up......my goal is to break 260.......


----------



## huckleberg

rembrandt said:


> Early this morning I shot a 203......[snip] my scores will jump into the 240s and up......my goal is to break 260.......


Nice shootin'! I feel that breaking 200 barebow at 20yds is a legit accomplishment, it is a very rare newbie who will do that early in their archery career. Took me 6 months!

I just started doing barebow at 20yds ... 190, 199, 208 the other night ... I know I will grow from here and looking forward to putting in the time ... I put the sight on and at 20yds did a 266 ... I am trying to get solid at both Barebow and with a Sight so I can eventually find a coach and learn the USAA shot cycle (the Kisik Lee form). I do not believe I can teach myself the OR techniques.


----------



## Zurf

*181*

As expected, with the form change, things have gotten worse, but they will get better. Draw length is longer and presently restricted by arrow length.


----------



## rembrandt

Yesterday I shot two rounds......a 206 and a 219.....I know I can do better but I'm still searching for the right anchor and I've raised it now and it seems to help....I still have a tendency to relax at full draw and drop the bow right after release.....its a bad habit that I'm having the dickens to overcome..........


----------



## davidflorida

Same here with getting a set anchor , seems like i switch it every other end . Feels good then i lose it . Staying in the 205- 219 - shot on the field course this weekend and it seems to gave gotten me a little out of wack .


----------



## Zurf

I hear you on the anchor. This change in drawing has forced a change in anchor. Now I'm diddling around with something I firmed up months ago. I've learned some since then, so hopefully it will be easier this time.


----------



## davidflorida

Got 1 round in 209 gota hit that 220 one of these days , last end killed me .


----------



## rembrandt

I shot two rounds today and my first round, a 224 was not too bad.....I raised my anchor where I'm looking down the arrow better and I'm working hard to stop the bow dropping habit......The next round I shot a 220 and had 8 Xs......One end I had 2 Xs and both tried to go into the same hole.....I will continue to climb up to where I left off if I conquer the bow drop habit......I'm working on it....


----------



## davidflorida

213 then ran out of light , couple shots with a lapse in concentration keeping me off the 220 mark , I bet i get it this weekend .


----------



## GBUSA

Shot my first 300 round today, it was actually pretty fun. I shot cold scoring from my first arrow of the day. 251 11x
I never really shoot for score, but can see this 300 round being addictive fun.


----------



## davidflorida

my first round over 220 - this is # 50 for me shooting the 300 round , for a newb i am happy


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## erotomaniac1928

davidflorida said:


> my first round over 220 - this is # 50 for me shooting the 300 round , for a newb i am happy


Nice 25 in your 2nd end!


----------



## centershot

270 (91, 89, 90) Last night with the Dorado Hunting rig. Couple of flubs in there but pretty pleased for the first round I have scored this year with my hunting bow.


----------



## huckleberg

I have started trying to develop a 3-under anchor and it is difficult ... doing a lot of blank-baling ... sometimes it feels amazingly right and sometimes it is very awkward ... 214 and 198 past two nights ... I shoot a few amazing 5s and Xs then hit a 1 or miss the face all together in the same end! think I need to focus on blank'in for a bit then try again for record ... definitely love the feeling of accomplishment of hitting an X with barebow!


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## centershot

3-under and high anchors are a compromise...........but worth the effort to get the arrow up where you can use it to aim off of.


----------



## davidflorida

centershot = what weight is your hunting rig, and congrats on your shooting . I have a set of 40# limbs coming that will be my hunting rig. That gives me a couple of months to practice with them


> Dwayne -
> 
> Good to see you posting again. Did ya ever think we'd see a 5 page thread on the 300 round in the trad forum? Guess there's hope after all. LOL.
> 
> Hope all is well, buddy.


 was reading some off the old pages . 5 pages hahahh


----------



## centershot

davidflorida said:


> centershot = what weight is your hunting rig, and congrats on your shooting . I have a set of 40# limbs coming that will be my hunting rig. That gives me a couple of months to practice with them was reading some off the old pages . 5 pages hahahh


40# or just a bit over - I shoot GT 15-35's full length with 125gr point at around 175 fps. That was the first time I have shot that many shots with that bow and 40# limbs this season, I could sure feel it toward the end!


----------



## cubefx

Shot 246 tonight (20 yards / indoor range). Very disappointed ending rounds. Was hoping to break 250 but shot couple of 2s at the end.


----------



## MikeG

259 with an 18 in the 10th end. Ughhhh.


----------



## centershot

Don't count those chickens before they hatch! You have to shoot 60 shots, each one like it is your only arrow of the day. If you can keep all your arrows in the 4 ring or better you will be among a very small group of excellent shooters. In all the rounds I have shot I have only managed "no threes" twice! When your poor shots end up in an acceptable scoring ring you'll know your getting it. I see some great progress being made, keep at it fellas!


----------



## MikeG

centershot said:


> Don't count those chickens before they hatch! You have to shoot 60 shots, each one like it is your only arrow of the day. If you can keep all your arrows in the 4 ring or better you will be among a very small group of excellent shooters. In all the rounds I have shot I have only managed "no threes" twice! When your poor shots end up in an acceptable scoring ring you'll know your getting it. I see some great progress being made, keep at it fellas!


Slowly inching up on the 6" group at 20 yards. It ain't easy. Maintaining proper mental focus for all 60 shots can be as challenging as maintaining proper form for those same shots. It's really easy to let your mind wander even if only for a few shots in a round. Both the mental grind and physical execution just take practice.


----------



## centershot

MikeG said:


> Slowly inching up on the 6" group at 20 yards. It ain't easy. Maintaining proper mental focus for all 60 shots can be as challenging as maintaining proper form for those same shots. It's really easy to let your mind wander even if only for a few shots in a round. Both the mental grind and physical execution just take practice.


There is a step in Kisik Lee's (Team USA Archery Coach) shot sequence describe in the book "Archery" about mental focus. After the setup and just before you draw to anchor take a breath, make sure your mental state is positive or let down and start again. If your mind wanders at all or if you have a negative thought, let down and start again. It works - when you get shooting higher scores all the little things really make a difference, if your worried about shooting a poor shot - guess what, you'll shoot a poor shot. Step up there knowing your going to put it in the middle and your much more likely to succeed.


----------



## MikeG

centershot said:


> There is a step in Kisik Lee's (Team USA Archery Coach) shot sequence describe in the book "Archery" about mental focus. After the setup and just before you draw to anchor take a breath, make sure your mental state is positive or let down and start again. If your mind wanders at all or if you have a negative thought, let down and start again. It works - when you get shooting higher scores all the little things really make a difference, if your worried about shooting a poor shot - guess what, you'll shoot a poor shot. Step up there knowing your going to put it in the middle and your much more likely to succeed.


You've picked a real sore spot for me. I never let down except for gusts of wind that knock my arrow off the rest. That 18 end of mine had two typical examples. Scores were 4-4-4-3-3. The first 3 was a wide right miss that sometimes happens. No big deal; I normally recover from those shots immediately. But on the second 3, I hit my mouth with my thumb while drawing the arrow and then settled into anchor. How could my alignment possibly be good after that kind of draw? Yep, it can't. On one of the 4s I was blowing a mosquito off my face while I was at anchor. Hell I might have been blowing at it while I released the shot. Why didn't I let down in either case? Beats me. I just get really dumb and bullheaded on the line sometimes.

Thanks for the tip Center. I'll keep that in mind when I shoot tomorrow. I've never thought about practicing letting down. Maybe it's time to give it more thought.


----------



## erotomaniac1928

MikeG,

I have the same issue. Often I know before I even release whether or not it will be a good (4 or 5) or bad shot (3,2,1). My issue is, I still release the arrow. Need to learn to let down and start over.


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## MikeG

Yep. That target isn't going anywhere, but I treat it like it's a charging Grizzly.


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## centershot

Letting down is one of the hardest things to do in archery. But absolutely critical if you want to shoot A class or better scores. You really must have control of your shot and even then it is not easy. The urge to fight through is very tough to overcome.


----------



## rembrandt

I had a learning day today....shot a 204 and I had a 10 on one end and on the last end I had a 21.....better days are ahead I do believe......


----------



## erotomaniac1928

Shot back-to-back 233's today. Consistent, if anything.


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## centershot

That is good shooting eroto - 240 is averaging a 4 each shot so your close! I would guess that if you eliminate a couple bad shots on each game you would be there.


----------



## rembrandt

centershot said:


> That is good shooting eroto - 240 is averaging a 4 each shot so your close! I would guess that if you eliminate a couple bad shots on each game you would be there.


I was right there when my son talked me into going for the wheelie bows and now I'm trying to work my way back up to the 240 average I once had.....its not easy when old habits come to the surface.....gonna go out again today and see if I can correct some problems.......


----------



## cubefx

FINALLY!!!!!!!! Double achievement: No rounds under 20 points and new personal record of 263! 
One thing I learned, you start to shoot above average is when you cringe every time you shoot a "3".


----------



## oneTone

What are the dimensions of circles on a NFFA target?


----------



## cubefx

oneTone said:


> What are the dimensions of circles on a NFFA target?


5 ring - 3"
4 ring - 6 1/4"
3 ring - 9 1/2"
2 ring - 12 1/2"
1 ring - 15 3/4"


----------



## oneTone

What are the dimensions of the circles on a NFFA target face?


----------



## erotomaniac1928

Dang cubefx, nice shooting. 

Just shot a 238. Choked the last end for a 17, my lowest score. My consolation was I never shot below a 3, which I believe is a first for me.


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## oneTone

Oops ... and thanks!


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## erotomaniac1928

241 this afternoon. 

Lost focus and shot a 16 and 17 in the 6th and 7th ends that really hurt the overall score.


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## rembrandt

Shat a 221 and I had 8 2s, and 1 "0"......started out pretty good 21, 20, 21 and then I went downhill some and had a 14 which is a killer.....Only 5 Xs shows I'm struggling some but it felt good to get over 220 and I felt a tad better about my form......still having trouble dropping the bow on release.....


----------



## centershot

Great shooting cubefx! Now if you can eliminate those "cringe 3's" 270+ happens. It is very difficult to shoot a full round without shooting a 3, but very satisfying when your do!


----------



## erotomaniac1928

Yet another oddly consistent day. Shot back-to-back 239's. Couple bad ends here and there.


----------



## davidflorida

Shot a 211, new limbs and string on the sage . Went from 35 to 40 # this will probably be my hunting set up. First game I shot 81 was stoked but went slowly down from there.


----------



## erotomaniac1928

235 followed by a 245 today.


----------



## rembrandt

Shot a 216 yesterday.....could have been a lot better but I seem to have on arrow every round that kills my score......ones and twos really hurt and 3s are not much better.....I gotta keep all 5 in the 4 and better......that is my goal right now.....


----------



## rembrandt

centershot said:


> Great shooting cubefx! Now if you can eliminate those "cringe 3's" 270+ happens. It is very difficult to shoot a full round without shooting a 3, but very satisfying when your do!


How about shooting a 299 and choking on the last arrow.....course I was shooting my wheelie bow and the last arrow was a hairs breath outside the white on the 5 spot but still it was disheartening to say the least.....came back a few days later and shot the 300......I was sweating the last arrow however......


----------



## RoscoeP23

To get the higher score what must the arrow do, be totally inside the line or cut the line or just touch it? I have to try that one of these days, I will see if my local shop has the targets.


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## grantmac

All events only require the line to be touched.
You won't have luck finding the blue face in Canada.

Grant


----------



## rembrandt

RoscoeP23 said:


> To get the higher score what must the arrow do, be totally inside the line or cut the line or just touch it? I have to try that one of these days, I will see if my local shop has the targets.


Lancaster has them and I think they run about .30 cents each........


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## ghostgoblin22

ebay has them for cheap


----------



## rembrandt

ghostgoblin22 said:


> ebay has them for cheap


If they are less than .30 cents then I'm gonna head over there and buy some for sure......At last count I had over 30.....I figured that would last me thru the summer.....


----------



## rembrandt

I am experiencing TP so bad right now that its depressing to me......I started off the first two ends today with two 22s with 2 Xs.....I had a 23 with 2 Xs......you would think I was gonna shoot around 240 to 250......I shot a 199 with 5, 0s....I got the yips and my score went south like a lead balloon....I cannot draw on target, always low and when I force myself to come up I jerk at the trigger and the arrow goes everywhere...... just panic at release......Its downright sad to see.....I posted a 9 on one end and a 11 and a 13. Those scores will kill your chance of a good score......


----------



## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> I am experiencing TP so bad right now that its depressing to me......I started off the first two ends today with two 22s with 2 Xs.....I had a 23 with 2 Xs......you would think I was gonna shoot around 240 to 250......I shot a 199 with 5, 0s....I got the yips and my score went south like a lead balloon....I cannot draw on target, always low and when I force myself to come up I jerk at the trigger and the arrow goes everywhere...... just panic at release......Its downright sad to see.....I posted a 9 on one end and a 11 and a 13. Those scores will kill your chance of a good score......


You really shouldn't be scoring games, especially not at 20yds if you are regularly missing the whole face.

Work through your issues without the scorecard or they will just get worse.

-Grant


----------



## centershot

Nip that right now! Work on your sequence - it sound like your putting too much emphasis on scores and aiming. The scores just happen, don't anticipate them. Slow down the whole process and make fewer but better shots. May be time for some 'watch the arrow' exercises until you get your confidence back. Remember if you have any negative thought at any point along your sequence, let down and start over. You may want to move up to 5 or 10 yards, whatever it takes to get your confidence up and aim where/how you want without issue. It will take some time and effort but you can do it.


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## rembrandt

I think I will move up to 15yds till I recover my composure......When I just concentrate on landing an arrow within the 4 ring I do better but that feeling isn't always there......What really gets me is when I start to release and then grab at the string trying to stop it and it goes awry anyway and the result is usually a "0".....eats away at me when I know its so much easier than I'm making it out to be.........


----------



## Capital_Ken

I picked up a long oboe for the first time the day we shot NW Indoor Sectionals this year. I shot a 212 my first day, which I was fairly happy with because I'm a gap shooter and had never shot a longbow before. Later that day I decided to shoot a full length arrow rather than the 26" GT trads I shot in my round. That really fixed my accuracy issue and brought my point of aim and impact pretty close together. The second day I shot a 243, which was my highest trad competition score ever. And ended up winning my class (only one other shooter). I'm selling my Samick Sage and I'll be picking up a long now soon. Good times!


----------



## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> I think I will move up to 15yds till I recover my composure......When I just concentrate on landing an arrow within the 4 ring I do better but that feeling isn't always there......What really gets me is when I start to release and then grab at the string trying to stop it and it goes awry anyway and the result is usually a "0".....eats away at me when I know its so much easier than I'm making it out to be.........


You have the aiming and execution phases of your shot screwed-up.

I would be spending more time on them and less on shooting arrows. Aim until aiming is no longer a source of anxiety, then move on to working on the execution.

-Grant


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## rembrandt

I'm positive after my trip to my range that those who say its not the wraps are correct.....It is my release and of course some TP that is bothering me big time.....I am plucking the string away from my face thinking it will help me avoid nose string contact and I'm doing it sub-consciously and not mindful of it happening but I have a sincere feeling that's the problem.....I need to pull straight back on release and not out from my anchor......I moved up to 15yds and shot a 230 on the NFAA target which is horrible....Viper1 said I believe that from 15 yds you should shoot 270 or more.....I believe that's what he said but could be wrong.....anyway, my effort was way under that and very discouraging..........


----------



## davidflorida

Shot a 222 -second time shooting 3 under .


----------



## erotomaniac1928

251 today. New personal best. 

Switched to a high wrist grip. Not sure if there is any correlation, will need a larger sample size before I decide


----------



## davidflorida

Shot 227 liking the 3 under . 40 pounds feels like a breeze . Thinking of selling my 35 # limbs and getting a 45 # set .


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## erotomaniac1928

Good shooting David. If the 40's feel great, stick with them.


----------



## davidflorida

Thanks ero , ya I will be shooting the 40 for a while . I have a set of 50# that I will slowly work towards for hunting only . Glad to see you put up a personnel best congrats .


----------



## rembrandt

Finally got the rest I wanted and now my arrows are right with the plunger.....I noticed it after my first end today.....a 24......4 in the 5 ring and one in the 4 ring.....now, I'll take that every time up to the plate......anyway, I had 7 ends in the 20s and shot a 241 at 16yds.....my hypocrisy goes just so far.....I felt better with my release and I'm closer to using back tension than I've been....I really felt it a number of times and the arrow went straight into the white....love that and when I do that with consistency, I will move back 4 giant steps and start shooting some viable scores......I still shoot left some by not pulling straight back at release but that can be eliminate with time and work......


----------



## rembrandt

davidflorida said:


> Shot 227 liking the 3 under . 40 pounds feels like a breeze . Thinking of selling my 35 # limbs and getting a 45 # set .


David....what kind of 35lb limbs do you have and what may I ask would you want for them?


----------



## davidflorida

Samick sage limbs 45.00


----------



## davidflorida

How bout trade for arm guard ?


----------



## davidflorida

Misplaced post !


----------



## centershot

rembrandt said:


> Finally got the rest I wanted and now my arrows are right with the plunger.....I noticed it after my first end today.....a 24......4 in the 5 ring and one in the 4 ring.....now, I'll take that every time up to the plate......anyway, I had 7 ends in the 20s and shot a 241 at 16yds.....my hypocrisy goes just so far.....I felt better with my release and I'm closer to using back tension than I've been....I really felt it a number of times and the arrow went straight into the white....love that and when I do that with consistency, I will move back 4 giant steps and start shooting some viable scores......I still shoot left some by not pulling straight back at release but that can be eliminate with time and work......


Good to hear your getting it worked out. The nice thing about shooting with a sequence is that you can break your shot down to individual pieces and fix what needs fixed. In the book 'Archery' by USA Archery, Kisik Lee describes in detail a very good sequence that has a portion on using the LAN muscle movement that will really clean up your release when executed properly. Worth finding and reading.


----------



## davidflorida

Bumped my personal best up to 235 , will be scouting this weekend so probably will not get to shoot till late Sunday if I have any juice left in me after playing in the swamp down here.


----------



## rembrandt

centershot said:


> Good to hear your getting it worked out. The nice thing about shooting with a sequence is that you can break your shot down to individual pieces and fix what needs fixed. In the book 'Archery' by USA Archery, Kisik Lee describes in detail a very good sequence that has a portion on using the LAN muscle movement that will really clean up your release when executed properly. Worth finding and reading.


I will look for some books on TECHNIQUE and FORM and study them.....I watched a few videos on you tube and there were some good hints and ideas that I believe will help me.....I am curious why the last two rounds I shot I had very good scores in the first two ends and then went downhill after that.....my first end yesterday was a 24.....the 4 arrow was just off the line a fraction......for some reason I then decline someway and my score suffers......I draw back and anchor and I know to use back tension and release with a straight back action and every now and then it goes into the X and it feels so easy to do but that feel vanishes way too quick and often......If I relax the right hand and release the arrow has a tendency to go left on me.......its a work in progress......


----------



## rembrandt

davidflorida said:


> How bout trade for arm guard ?


Do you need an arm guard? I've got about 15 or so.......


----------



## davidflorida

If you can use the limbs I would trade you for one .


----------



## rembrandt

davidflorida said:


> If you can use the limbs I would trade you for one .


David.....limbs are worth more than arm guards I would think.......what poundage are the limbs? I would be glad to trade with you and even send you two arm guards for them if the DW is something I can tolerate.........Here are a few.....pick out a couple.....


----------



## davidflorida

35 #


----------



## rembrandt

davidflorida said:


> 35 #


35 DW would be fine....I'll send you a PM....


----------



## rembrandt

Shot a 251 from 16yds this evening.....I really felt really close to relaxing and aiming with the bow hand......If I can continue to shoot around or above 250 for 3 or 4 more rounds, I plan on dropping back to 18yds......then to 20 if I feel I can handle it again.......Just gotta get in the groove.....I think one thing that's helped me is I've gone to 125gr tips and they seem to fly better for me.....What does bother me is the lack of Xs.....I had 7 today and I've got to get them over 10 soon.........


----------



## grantmac

X count doesn't matter, getting rid of wide shots matters. I've shot over 280 with just 14x and under 275 with more than 20x.

Grant


----------



## centershot

grantmac said:


> X count doesn't matter, getting rid of wide shots matters. I've shot over 280 with just 14x and under 275 with more than 20x.
> 
> Grant


Agreed, keep them in the white - let the x's take care of themselves. Don't obsess over aiming, it's just part of the sequence - set your gap and move on, let your brain take over the rest.


----------



## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> X count doesn't matter, getting rid of wide shots matters. I've shot over 280 with just 14x and under 275 with more than 20x.
> 
> Grant


I know the Xs have no value but they are indictative of good shots in and within the white area.....When they go up, then you can pretty much tell that your pounding the white......that's what I was referring to.....


----------



## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> X count doesn't matter, getting rid of wide shots matters. I've shot over 280 with just 14x and under 275 with more than 20x.
> 
> Grant


I don't think I've ever shot over 259 so shootin over 280 is very foreign to me.....275 also. its gonna take me a lot of practice to do that....Also, my age is a hindrance. I've not as steady or athletic as I once was so I have to tone down my goals and accept the ineffable.


----------



## moog5050

First time reporting on this thread. Shot a 254 today but finished great with 3 ends of 24 for a 92 on the final third. If I could only keep it up for all 12 ends. Really slowed down my release on the last 3 ends so I may have learned something.


----------



## moog5050

Btw- I only shoot at home and never keep track of Xs. Maybe I should but am happy to be in the white wherever it lands.


----------



## erotomaniac1928

X's are irrelevant to me. I shot my personal best 251 last week and only finished with 4 x's. Will score again tomorrow.


----------



## Zurf

I got out to the range for the first time in about six weeks to shoot. I don't want to talk about my score. Does anyone have a hanky? (weep weep weep)


----------



## rembrandt

Zurf said:


> I got out to the range for the first time in about six weeks to shoot. I don't want to talk about my score. Does anyone have a hanky? (weep weep weep)


I know the feeling so I moved in to 16yds and my score improved dramatically from the low 200s to above 240......If I continue to improve and get over the TP I will ease back to 20 yds.......Good luck and keep working on form.....


----------



## tandemcpl

I went to a local indoor range to work on my form after a very poor showing at the IBO Trad Worlds. To my surprise, I was able to pull off a personal best 283.

Be blessed.

Toby


----------



## rembrandt

tandemcpl said:


> I went to a local indoor range to work on my form after a very poor showing at the IBO Trad Worlds. To my surprise, I was able to pull off a personal best 283.
> 
> Be blessed.
> 
> Toby


That's a great score....Only about 1% of all archers can shoot that well......


----------



## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> I know the Xs have no value but they are indictative of good shots in and within the white area.....When they go up, then you can pretty much tell that your pounding the white......that's what I was referring to.....


Unless you are shooting 300 the Xs aren't important. What is important is getting rid of bad shots, not shooting perfect shots.



rembrandt said:


> I don't think I've ever shot over 259 so shootin over 280 is very foreign to me.....275 also. its gonna take me a lot of practice to do that....Also, my age is a hindrance. I've not as steady or athletic as I once was so I have to tone down my goals and accept the ineffable.


Have you tried the 12" stab or some weight in the riser? The difference is significant.

-Grant


----------



## lippencotte

After 22 hours practice into the hobby I joined the traditional league here at Shooters in Livonia. I am using a 26# at 28" OMP 52" take down bow. Joined league to shoot eight weeks and after a 58 first time thought it was going to be a long 7 remaining weeks. But kept plugging along and taking advice when offered and ended up at 58, 144, 148, 152, 140, 159, 197, and finally ended by shooting 200 at 18yds

Wish I had started 20 years ago.............


----------



## rembrandt

grantmac said:


> Unless you are shooting 300 the Xs aren't important. What is important is getting rid of bad shots, not shooting perfect shots.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried the 12" stab or some weight in the riser? The difference is significant.
> 
> -Grant


I fill up a small spiral notebook with the date, score, Xs and a space for comments.....I keep a record of those and the Xs, which just about everybody that posts their scores on here do but I keep the X count as a reminder that I need to hit the White more often......If I averaged 275 with no Xs, I'd be happy.....What I really do is try to eliminate the 3s and 2s.....4s aren't so bad, but 3s and 2s or worse kill your score....I am looking for a 12" stab as we speak.....I have a 7" on it now but I would like a 12".......I've had one before.......


----------



## Zurf

rembrandt said:


> I know the feeling so I moved in to 16yds and my score improved dramatically from the low 200s to above 240......If I continue to improve and get over the TP I will ease back to 20 yds.......Good luck and keep working on form.....


Yep. Dropping it back to 10 yards and working on form again until I get back into the swing of things.


----------



## rembrandt

Zurf said:


> Yep. Dropping it back to 10 yards and working on form again until I get back into the swing of things.


It does take time....Its like starting all over again.......I guess if it was easy the challenge wouldn't be all that satisfying..........


----------



## moog5050

Received a new to me dalaa on Tuesday. Tuned yesterday and decided to try my first 20yd round. String broke while warming up to my shock. Nothing like that to wake you up. Restrung and shot a 257. Bow shoots really nice. Had a 2 and 1 too. Should have broke 260 but it's like the ole if I just sunk those 3 five foot puts I would have broke 80. Is what it is.


----------



## rembrandt

I shot a 232 today at 17yds.....I've still got some problems with my release to solve before I will get where I want to go.....My first end was 25 with 3 xs but after that it went downhill.....a 16 and two 18s hurt me.....I need to stay on or above 20 all the time.....


----------



## StudentOfTheBow

Shot a 266 a couple of weeks ago. 16x. Just getting the chance to post it.

That's my NFAA personal best. I still shoot the FITA round more often, but I'm getting used to that 5-ring target.

It was also my first NFAA round with my knew Trad Tech Pinnacle II. It's a definite improvement over my last bow, which was an OMP Adventure 2.0.


----------



## Zurf

Worst score yet. 152 at 20 yards. Everything was off today. I learned some from the bad shooting, though. Working on my release - and clearly more work is needed.


----------



## Zurf

203 last night. The ends became more consistent in the later ends, but I'm still getting too many fliers.


----------



## rembrandt

Zurf said:


> 203 last night. The ends became more consistent in the later ends, but I'm still getting too many fliers.


Keep at it......little things will appear that will improve your score.....You will gradually get rid of the fliers, (2s, 1s and 0s) and then you will start keeping everything within the 4 ring....from there the score starts to mount.......good luck 

BTW....one of the most important things I learned that made my score go up was BT and that constant pull on the string.....If you relax at anchor, creep will come into play and the arrow will go to places that will make you pause and ask yourself......how did that happen, I wasn't aiming over there at all.....it is paramount that you push and pull....


----------



## erotomaniac1928

Zurf said:


> 203 last night. The ends became more consistent in the later ends, but I'm still getting too many fliers.


Zurf, it would probably be best to move in to 15 yards and focus on your form. Don't score for awhile


----------



## Zurf

erotomaniac1928 said:


> Zurf, it would probably be best to move in to 15 yards and focus on your form. Don't score for awhile


I agree. I'm throwing up a target while I work on form. My options are 10yd or 20yd. No 15 yd target at the range. I'm thinking of putting one in. In the meanwhile, I like the exagerated results from error on the 20yd. It doesn't let me pretend and forces me to think about what's wrong.


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## moog5050

257 again this morning. Good news is that I modified my anchor by bringing my thumb in instead of locking it under my jaw. Release seemed cleaner and more quiet. Flyers were limited to 3s. Not as many whites as I would like though. I think this anchor will work better as I practice it.

I also raised the target midway through and that caused a few bad ends until I adjusted. 88-81-88.


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## moog5050

Double header. Finally broke 260 with nothing to spare tonight. 84-89-87. Hope it's starts being more the norm.


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## centershot

Nice job! 260 is a real breakthrough. It shows your really getting control over your shot and bad shots are limited to a few 3's. Good for you.


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## kenny.baptista2

Well Done


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## moog5050

Thanks guys. I just couldn't help myself and shot another round this morning. 91-91-85 for a 267. I was more than a bit surprised.

With 2 personal records in 2 days, I am done for a while. Just back to practice and hunting shots. The anchor adjustment and focus on back tension are paying off. You nailed it centershot, only four 3s in this one. My bad shots are getting better.


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## centershot

When your bad shots are acceptable - those scores zoom right up.


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## moog5050

centershot said:


> When your bad shots are acceptable - those scores zoom right up.


Lol- they are never acceptable as our standards change the more we improve. You are on the money though. Much easier to put together a decent score when bad shots are 3s and 4s vs 1s and 2s.


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## Zurf

Longer arrows made a big difference. I am able to get my stringhand elbow all the way back, which allows for a better release and proper T form. I didn't score last night, but after warming up a bit, my 6 arrow ends were grouping tightly at 20 yards with only the occaisional flyer. On those, I knew what I had done wrong when I sent them. It wasn't a 'what'd I do now' moment, but a 'whoops, I forgot to...' moment. 

I lost a couple nocks, so I'll glue those on and get some more practice this weekend.


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## MikeG

Our archery league is done for the year. The format is one game (20 arrows) at 10-15-20-30-40 yards in successive weeks followed by 60-shot rounds for the next five weeks at the same distances. Each week we shot at the 40cm blue face target. 2014's 10 yard game was the first time I'd shot a bow. 60 arrow results:
2014 2015
10yds 251 286
15yds 218 278
20yds 199 254
30yds 150 213
40yds 79 171

Decent progress, but I fell short of my goals on every round by 6-7 points (except 40...no idea what's good or bad at that distance on that target). Still a lot of work to do, no threat to good shooters, but if I work at this the right way I might not suck when it's all said and done. I was really disappointed with my 20 yard score this year, but it was partly me and partly the range conditions. The target was really chewed up, and I had a lot of bounce-outs and hangers. 5-5-4-4-3 was pretty much the norm. Waaaaay too many 3s (along with three 2s). I recently bought Rick McKinney's book, and I'm about half way through it. A few things he wrote about really helped me shoot better at the 30 and 40 yard distances. Prior to reading his book I was languishing in the 180 and 120 range respectively for 30 and 40 yards. Looking forward to reading the rest.

So it's off to re-tuning my Omega Imperial and mixing in some 3D along with my target bow paper shooting.


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## huckleberg

MikeG said:


> So it's off to re-tuning my Omega Imperial and mixing in some 3D along with my target bow paper shooting.


I am a noob here myself but those scores look decent!


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## moog5050

Great progress mike and I like that format. Good practice for hunting.


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## MikeG

huckleberg said:


> I am a noob here myself but those scores look decent!


Thanks Huck, but each distance definitely has its own challenges. I really enjoy shooting at 30, 40 and hopefully beyond (up to 60 anyway). The weirdest one was 10. I counted it up when I got done and thought "286? That's it???" But the more I thought about it, I don't know if I'd ever shoot higher than that at 10. I could see myself shooting better at 15 than 10 at some point.



moog5050 said:


> Great progress mike and I like that format. Good practice for hunting.


Thanks moog. And congrats on your 267. 260 is what I'm gunning for now. I've been stuck in the 250-255 range for some time now. I'm not sure if I need a complete overhaul or if I just need to continue improving on what I'm currently doing. 

That format is a lot of fun. It's a good introduction for newbs to demonstrate the challenges of shooting at different distances like that. I'd like to see an additional week thrown in there for a 60 arrow round with an arrow at 10, 15, 20, 30, and 40 during each end. Only problem for me is that I'm the only recurve shooter on my team. We have 5 pretty solid compound shooters on our team including a young lady who won a couple IBO Worlds as a junior, and the top 3 scores for each week are counted for each team's score. Needless to say that none of mine were used. Some of the reactions were pretty funny to my scores though..."254 with no sights or let-off? Damn, not too bad!" Of course I then mentioned Demmer, Martin, etc and even guys on here like Center who can shoot 270+ without much trouble.


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## moog5050

I think the format is perfect for the hunter. While I like to test with the 20yd nfaa, I generally vary shorts from 15-35yds in my backyard. Great practice and fun.

BTW- 250s in a league may be better than my 267 at home.


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## moog5050

263 this morning. Seems like once you break a level, for me 260, they start to come regularly. 90-83-90. Good news, shot my first 25 end and limited bad shots to three 3s and a 2 (all in game 2), bad news, fell apart in 2nd game with initial thoughts of a 270. Lol


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## Demmer

Good shooting moog. 270s will start to sprinkle in there from time to time and then they will become regular.


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## Demmer

MikeG said:


> "254 with no sights or let-off? Damn, not too bad!" Of course I then mentioned Demmer, Martin, etc and even guys on here like Center who can shoot 270+ without much trouble.


It took a while to get there(years). But now with great form and a good arrow tune, things are a lot easier.


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## moog5050

Thanks Demmer. 260s just started coming so no rush on the 270. Ok, who am I kidding. I have shot enough 90 games that I just want to put 3 together. Lol. After playing around today from 20 to 35, decided to try a 15yd nfaa round. 94-91-95 for a 280 but needed a 25 on the last end to do it. So I think viper was right about losing 15-20 points every 5 yards.


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## moog5050

So I swapped the 52lb medium limbs for short 60lbers and decided to give it a go. 92-83-81 for 256. A few points less than I have been shooting but 90% of my misses were right. I think if I do a bit more tuning I can do better. Not wholly disappointed. Plan to hunt with the shorter heavier limbs so I wanted to see where I stand now with them.


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## rembrandt

Yesterday was the first time I got out to shoot in over two weeks....I've been fighting a Sinus infection all summer and I've been down in the mouth but I got out there and shot a 227 which isn't too bad for an after layoff period....I had way too many 3s and 2s but that can be corrected.......


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## moog5050

Nice job Rembrandt. Always good to know you can maintain consistency even with time off.


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## moog5050

Tried the heavier bow again. After scaling it I realize why I needed to cut down the FMJ 300s. It is pulling 70.8lbs at my DL. But arrows were flying true. 89-86-85 for a 260. Still looking for that elusive 270. Had five3s and all ends were between 20 and 23.


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## equilibrium

moog5050 said:


> Tried the heavier bow again. After scaling it I realize why I needed to cut down the FMJ 300s. It is pulling 70.8lbs at my DL. But arrows were flying true. 89-86-85 for a 260. Still looking for that elusive 270. Had five3s and all ends were between 20 and 23.


You are shooting a 70.8 pound recurve/longbow?


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## moog5050

Recurve - das dalaa. Bought short black max 60lb limbs and didn't realize that they pull heavier on the dalaa due to limb pad angle. Plus my draw is a hair under 29". Funny thing is can now use the same arrows with my compound but cut an inch shorter.

I know it's a heavy recurve but, by way of explanation so you don't think I'm crackers, I have also competed in the super heavyweight class in powerlifting at the national and international level for years. DW is less of an issue for me than most.


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## moog5050

264 tonight. 83-86-95. Started bad with quite a few fliers but ended with my best game ever 23-24-23-25. That was a confidence booster and it required me to really slow down. Anyways, I think I will call it quits on the 20yd scoring until post hunting season. I feel like I am ready to start my first season hunting with a barebow recurve. Just hoping the deer stay within 30yds. Need to avoid that temptation to return to the comfort of the compound. Single shots outside until the season starts.


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## grantmac

A 95 point game is really strong, especially for the last half.

-Grant


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## moog5050

So I broke my plan and after working at the hunting property I decided to shoot a round with my lighter dalaa. Glad I did. Finally broke 270 with a 272. 91-90-91. Had three 3s in the round and 2 21pt ends but otherwise really consistent for me. Had one 25pt end too with 4x - don't usually pay attention to Xs but noted that one. Never planned to be a paper puncher but I am a bit addicted. Now I really will let it go until post hunting season. Good luck to all this season!


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## tandemcpl

Just started a Tuesday night league and I didn't shoot as well as I would have liked; it took a while to get comfortable. I ended up shooting a 264 with 14 Xs.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## centershot

Trying out my new limbs last night - shot 85, 88, 85 - 258. Average holes in the paper were about 6 o'clock in the 4 ring after the round. Need to get used to the new gap and hold a tad higher. Should add a few points. Shot 1/2 dz 3's (all low). Overall decent for not shooting a NFAA round (or that bow or limbs) in 6 months. Don't want to start with too high of a score, would not leave anything to work towards!


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## centershot

moog5050 said:


> So I broke my plan and after working at the hunting property I decided to shoot a round with my lighter dalaa. Glad I did. Finally broke 270 with a 272. 91-90-91. Had three 3s in the round and 2 21pt ends but otherwise really consistent for me. Had one 25pt end too with 4x - don't usually pay attention to Xs but noted that one. Never planned to be a paper puncher but I am a bit addicted. Now I really will let it go until post hunting season. Good luck to all this season!


Knowing you can and do shoot like that is a real confidence builder for hunting. Which really is the point - and gets lost on the guys that don't shoot targets. Good luck on your hunts.


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## rembrandt

Shot a 229 today and did discover somthing that just might improve my score.....I have been anchoring with the arrow too far away from under my eye......I started off with a 22, then a 21, then a 16 and the mid ends were average with several 19s, and when I discovered that the arrow (nock) was too far away from my eye, thats when I made 4 out of the last 5 in the 20s......If you take a gander at my target, there is a hole the size of a silver dollar 2 inches to the left of the X ring....I hope that discovery will help my score next time out....It sure can't hurt it......I did try to string walk and look down the arrow but every arrow was 8 to 10 inches low....what gives with that?


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## moog5050

Thanks CS. I agree. It also gives me an objective way to measure progress. Funny cause my hunting partner was trying to caution me against shooting targets. "Careful because many paper punchers can't kill deer." How ridiculous. How could practice possibly hurt. If you are prone to buck fever, it is not caused by "paper punching."

Btw- nice shooting.


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## moog5050

Good shooting Rembrandt. Once you figure out nock height and length of crawl combo, you will kill it with a crawl.


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> Good shooting Rembrandt. Once you figure out nock height and length of crawl combo, you will kill it with a crawl.


Thanks, but do you have any idea why my shots were so low?


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## centershot

rembrandt said:


> Thanks, but do you have any idea why my shots were so low?


It does not take too much of a crawl to lower your arrow impact, especially with higher anchors.


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## rembrandt

centershot said:


> It does not take too much of a crawl to lower your arrow impact, especially with higher anchors.


That justifies what I've been saying but how do you remedy that situation and bring the arrow up to where you want it? Do I have to lower my nocks to do that?


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## grantmac

rembrandt said:


> Shot a 229 today and did discover somthing that just might improve my score.....I have been anchoring with the arrow too far away from under my eye......I started off with a 22, then a 21, then a 16 and the mid ends were average with several 19s, and when I discovered that the arrow (nock) was too far away from my eye, thats when I made 4 out of the last 5 in the 20s......If you take a gander at my target, there is a hole the size of a silver dollar 2 inches to the left of the X ring....I hope that discovery will help my score next time out....It sure can't hurt it......I did try to string walk and look down the arrow but every arrow was 8 to 10 inches low....what gives with that?


I think you are experiencing a fundamental disconnect about the purpose of stringwalking. It has NOTHING to do with looking down the arrow and everything to do with having the arrow impact on the spot that the point is visually aligned with at full draw.
If you are having the arrow hit under where it is aligned at full draw then you simply crawl less. If above you crawl further down. The only distance where you are truly looking right down the shaft is perhaps 5yds.

Grant


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## Old Sarge

Rembrant, the point of the arrow = front sight. Your fingers crawling up and down the string = rear sight. They control the elevation.

1. Take a guess on a 20 yard crawl.and move your fingers down the string to that point. 2. Draw bow, put the point on the dot. Do not look down the shaft, just point on dot. Shoot. If the arrow impacts to high crawl further down the sting. If low move up toward the nock. Keep shooting and adjusting until arrows hit where you are aiming elevation wise. That is your 20 yard crawl. Mark it with tape, tie on a nocking point etc so you don't have to keep counting stitches. This is your "fixed crawl" that they talk about. From there you can use it all the time at 20 yards or use it to make gapping easier with smaller gaps for 15' 25'. 30 etc. or you can just stringwalk for other distances. As long as you aren't shooting in tournaments you can use fixed tied on points for each distance to make it easier and faster. In a tournament that isn't allowed and you have to count stitches on your tab.

Btw forgot to mention you use the same anchor point for all shots. One good thing is you don't need a real high anchor to stringwalk. A lower anchor works just as well, even better actually. That will eliminate your killing your nose issue. Try index finger on corner of mouth for a starting point.


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## rembrandt

Old Sarge said:


> Rembrant, the point of the arrow = front sight. Your fingers crawling up and down the string = rear sight. They control the elevation.
> 
> 1. Take a guess on a 20 yard crawl.and move your fingers down the string to that point. 2. Draw bow, put the point on the dot. Do not look down the shaft, just point on dot. Shoot. If the arrow impacts to high crawl further down the sting. If low move up toward the nock. Keep shooting and adjusting until arrows hit where you are aiming elevation wise. That is your 20 yard crawl. Mark it with tape, tie on a nocking point etc so you don't have to keep counting stitches. This is your "fixed crawl" that they talk about. From there you can use it all the time at 20 yards or use it to make gapping easier with smaller gaps for 15' 25'. 30 etc. or you can just stringwalk for other distances. As long as you aren't shooting in tournaments you can use fixed tied on points for each distance to make it easier and faster. In a tournament that isn't allowed and you have to count stitches on your tab.
> 
> Btw forgot to mention you use the same anchor point for all shots. One good thing is you don't need a real high anchor to stringwalk. A lower anchor works just as well, even better actually. That will eliminate your killing your nose issue. Try index finger on corner of mouth for a starting point.


Thanks for the info.....I'm beginning to get the jest of this thing.....I've been looking down the shaft and that points the arrow low, in my case, 8 to 10 inches low. I do want to get this and make it work....It seems to me to be the best way of aiming that I've come across......killing my nose does come to the front with me....I hate to bloodie my nose.....

BTW, Old Sarge, aren't you the one that told me to get the 30lb bow and quit fooling around with higher poundage? I am glad I took your advice.....


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## Old Sarge

rembrandt said:


> Thanks for the info.....I'm beginning to get the jest of this thing.....I've been looking down the shaft and that points the arrow low, in my case, 8 to 10 inches low. I do want to get this and make it work....It seems to me to be the best way of aiming that I've come across......killing my nose does come to the front with me....I hate to bloodie my nose.....
> 
> BTW, Old Sarge, aren't you the one that told me to get the 30lb bow and quit fooling around with higher poundage? I am glad I took your advice.....


Yeah, that was a long time ago now. Glad it worked out for you. Try the stuff I posted, especially the lower anchor. No reason to sight down the arrow and your nose will thank you. Good luck.


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## rembrandt

Old Sarge said:


> Yeah, that was a long time ago now. Glad it worked out for you. Try the stuff I posted, especially the lower anchor. No reason to sight down the arrow and your nose will thank you. Good luck.


There is NO doubt you were right on the bow DW and I figure you are right on this also....I will try the lower anchor and use the tip or point to establish the crawl......thanks again......


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## rembrandt

Shot a 232 today with my reg anchor but I did work on the crawl and it was better today, had two in the x.....it is still rather strange to me but after I started using the tip to aim with I no longer had the low shots.....I did lower my anchor about two inches and used my trigger finger against my eye tooth.....still strange however but will keep at it till I feel comfortable with it........


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## localfiend

I'm new so I'm still shooting at short ranges.


*Date:*5.6.15*Bow:*35# Shakespeare Fiberglass*Distance:*15 Yard*Arrows:*Cheapo 450 Carbons*Round:*1 

-*Arrow 1**Arrow 2**Arrow 3**Arrow 4**Arrow 5**X's**End Totals**End 1*444330*18**End 2*433330*16**End 3*555420*21**End 4*532211*13**End 5*443320*16**End 6*554320*19**End 7*543310*16**End 8*444320*17**End 9*554330*20**End 10*442110*12**End 11*443320*16**End 12*403200*9*--------*Totals**53**45**40**33**22**1**193*


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## steve morley

I'm really pleased with my first practice 300 round, 288.

About 2 months ago my shooting went down the toilet, struggling to hold steady on aim, lost confidence in my shooting and everything was just hard work, 3 weeks ago at 20y on the 300 face I couldn't hit the spot (4's as best) and putting a couple of arrows low in the 2 zone. which is awful for a String Walker.

After taking a break and rebuilding my shot I figured out the problem which has been a problem for a few years but just crept up on me without noticing. I have a Tendon locking in my ring finger and all the fingers are starting to get stiff (every morning doing exercises to stretch them), this stiffness/tension in my bow hand was causing aiming issues(Katrin siad my top limb was wobbling from side to side), I just couldn't hold a float and put tension everywhere else in my Form, as I became increasingly frustrated and chasing my tail not fully understanding at that time what the problem was with my shooting, I just fell apart. I reshaped my grip on the Moon riser and made an adjustment to how I grip the bow, and I can now hold a float on the spot for as long as I want and shoot relaxed and controlled, what a lovely feeling.

I shot 1 x 3 because a vane flew off, evey thing else was 5/4's, I actually shot stronger as the round progressed down 8 points down on the first half and 4 on second half. My PB last winter was 292 in practice.


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## rembrandt

steve morley said:


> I'm really pleased with my first practice 300 round, 288.
> 
> About 2 months ago my shooting went down the toilet, struggling to hold steady on aim, lost confidence in my shooting and everything was just hard work, 3 weeks ago at 20y on the 300 face I couldn't hit the spot (4's as best) and putting a couple of arrows low in the 2 zone. which is awful for a String Walker.
> 
> After taking a break and rebuilding my shot I figured out the problem which has been a problem for a few years but just crept up on me without noticing. I have a Tendon locking in my ring finger and all the fingers are starting to get stiff (every morning doing exercises to stretch them), this stiffness/tension in my bow hand was causing aiming issues(Katrin siad my top limb was wobbling from side to side), I just couldn't hold a float and put tension everywhere else in my Form, as I became increasingly frustrated and chasing my tail not fully understanding at that time what the problem was with my shooting, I just fell apart. I reshaped my grip on the Moon riser and made an adjustment to how I grip the bow, and I can now hold a float on the spot for as long as I want and shoot relaxed and controlled, what a lovely feeling.
> 
> I shot 1 x 3 because a vane flew off, evey thing else was 5/4's, I actually shot stronger as the round progressed down 8 points down on the first half and 4 on second half. My PB last winter was 292 in practice.


Steve, I do believe you have the capability to shoot all the time in the 290s.....I wish I could get over the darn yips and hic-ups and shoot over 250 occasionally. BTW, what DW are you shooting?


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## steve morley

36# Off the fingers, 42# normally with my Field/3D setup


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## davidflorida

I haven't shot any paper in 2-1/2 months since bow season started August -8 . I have been shooting nothing but my broad heads . Couple days ago I took off my 40 # limbs and put on the 35 # with a different string set up . Shot one game each night 200- 216 and a 234 tonight close to my best of 245 . Never got a shot at any game yet , but I will go back to my broad heads and keep sharp with them . Just wanted to touch back in on the paper and see how much I lost with not shooting any rounds .


















in the swamp , cheers and good shooting guys


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## centershot

263 14X last night. I have been hunting the last month also but leagues start up next Tuesday and I though I'd better see what I could do. Shot 90, 88, then fell off to an 85 on the last round. Sure could tell I have not been shooting that many arrows in a while - that last end was a workout. I was shooting my 40# Dorado - I did take off the quiver and put on a stabilizer but other than that, same arrows, same weight, same everything. I need a set of lighter limbs for indoors, Lancaster's here I come!


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## steve morley

Only my second practice round and beat last years PB, just shot a 295 WA Barebow Recurve setup. This alteration to the grip has transformed the bow, it's just so easy to hold the arrow steady in the spot now, makes the rest of the shot sequence easy and relaxed. :thumbs_up


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## ChadMR82

steve morley said:


> Only my second practice round and beat last years PB, just shot a 295 WA Barebow Recurve setup. This alteration to the grip has transformed the bow, it's just so easy to hold the arrow steady in the spot now, makes the rest of the shot sequence easy and relaxed. :thumbs_up


That is TREMENDOUS shooting!! Great job! I never want to stand next to you at the range, lol


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## steve morley

ChadMR82 said:


> That is TREMENDOUS shooting!! Great job! I never want to stand next to you at the range, lol


Thanks Chad, just the small detail of repeating under tourney conditions, I would like to reach 290 in tourney conditions this season and feeling it's possible for me. 

Got inspired by the Fin Timo Leskinen who won world indoors in March setting two new WR's and setting a Finnish national record of 299 the week before. When you actually see somebody shoot that good it becomes a lot easier to believe yourself. :thumbs_up


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## centershot

Steve, what are the World Archery rules for Barebow?


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## steve morley

centershot said:


> Steve, what are the World Archery rules for Barebow?


Main difference between IFAA and WA Barebow is WA don't allow clickers and Long Stabs, the bow must fit through 12cm ring. I think it's the clicker that's a real game changer, if you can make it work correctly you can add points to your scorecard.

It seems more popular to shoot WA setup these days, the IFAA tourneys I've attended only about 30% are using the long stab and clicker. It's just convenience thing to shoot WA setup you can switch between IFAA and WA without changing a thing, if I shoot IFAA setup and then stripped it down for WA I think I would lose some confidence.


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## centershot

Can you string walk?

FWIW: Our local leagues started up last night. We shoot a Vegas face instead of the NFAA round and shoot a 450 round instead of the typical 300. We shoot that until the actual Vegas shoot then we switch to the NFAA face in Feb. Anyway I shot a 377/450 6X, not too bad for my first Vegas round of the year, but certainly left a few points on the table. I was shooting my Dorado (NFAA Trad legal, short stab-finger touching nock-etc.) last night and whew that last game was a workout, hopefully I'll have the target bow going for next week. Funny how different it feels when shooting with 30+ other archers.


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## steve morley

Yes I'm Stringwalking, I don't see myself shooting those scores any other way, apart from sights of course.


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## ghostgoblin22

did my first paper scoring besides 3D scoring for the first time in 3 months, shot a 276 with my 56'' 47# Nirk Woodsman, love this bow, super compact for blinds, but doesn't stack at all with my 30'', and nice and quick too...not bad for a 40 year old bow


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## rembrandt

Dag-gum, after Steve's and Centershots scores, I'm ashamed to put mine up here.....course with no solid anchor, target panic out the rear and Viper's hic-up that he so adroitly surfaced into my game......oh wait....its me that's doing it.....anyway, I shot a 206......today........anyway I can make those numbers real tiny so there hard to read?


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## rembrandt

ghostgoblin22 said:


> did my first paper scoring besides 3D scoring for the first time in 3 months, shot a 276 with my 56'' 47# Nirk Woodsman, love this bow, super compact for blinds, but doesn't stack at all with my 30'', and nice and quick too...not bad for a 40 year old bow


Did you have to post that score? BTW.....I've been to Luckenbach, Tx a couple of times and nobody lives there......LOL. My brother and I rode into that little oasis on our Honda motorcycles and all there was....was a couple big trees, a hardware store and a small café......just kidding ya!

ave


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## ghostgoblin22

rembrandt said:


> Did you have to post that score? BTW.....I've been to Luckenbach, Tx a couple of times and nobody lives there......LOL. My brother and I rode into that little oasis on our Honda motorcycles and all there was....was a couple big trees, a hardware store and a small café......just kidding ya!
> 
> ave


lol i dont live there, i just love the song by waylon jennings, i live 30 mins west of tyler near baxter/athens area


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## steve morley

Been off with cold so no shooting this week, I shot a 286 today, not as good as last weeks but I'm not unhappy with that score, groups were tight but low in the spot and some were in the 4 zone just under the spot, my form felt solid and think it was just lack of focus.

I think mid 280's will be normal scoring and the 290's will be those occasional good days.


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## rembrandt

ghostgoblin22 said:


> lol i dont live there, i just love the song by waylon jennings, i live 30 mins west of tyler near baxter/athens area


I was born and raised in Palestine.......graduated from PHS and went to Sam Houston on a baseball scholarship. I played against Athens in all three sports. I like the song also and Wayland along with Willie were favorites of mine.......


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## xringer-10

I decided to give it a try. I've only shot FITA target faces since I decided to shoot indoors this year. Thursday I shot a personal best FITA score of 253 so afterwards I tried a NFAA face and shot a 284. I have to say that the NFAA face makes me more nervous, perhaps it's because my expectations are not as high when shooting a FITA face and I don't mind shooting an occasional 7 or even a 6? However, I do like the fact that with NFAA I get to shoot 5 arrow ends vs. 3 arrow ends. I always struggle with the first arrow of each end and I feel like the less first arrows the better. I don't think that I will spend much time on a NFAA face until after the Lancaster Archery Classic in January not to mention most of the local club invitational shoots use the FITA face from what I understand. Does anyone think the same or do you mix them up throughout the season?


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## gbeauvin

I've got a 40cm FITA face so I may have to try this at 10 yards (maybe 5 lol). I went to the shop over the weekend and flung arrows at paper for the first time... it was more enlightening than I expected. Shooting 6 at a time all I can tell is that I suck at this. Looking at 75+ holes in the paper I see a definite trend for high and right (and we won't discuss how many arrows didn't make holes in the paper).

-GB


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## rsarns

273 Vegas face (FITA) in practice today, close to my personal best. (Actually ties my PB for in a tourney) Scores are coming around. WA Legal setup. The past 2 weeks have hit the blank bale hard and its paying off. Now lets see if I can carry this over to our State FITA Indoor in a few weeks.


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## xringer-10

Sorry, I meant that I shot a 553/600 FITA not a 253/600...


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## rsarns

xringer-10 said:


> Sorry, I meant that I shot a 553/600 FITA not a 253/600...


Puts you in World Class territory, very nice shooting! Hard to keep it together for 60 arrows on that face, well done.


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## steve morley

rsarns said:


> 273 Vegas face (FITA) in practice today, close to my personal best. (Actually ties my PB for in a tourney) Scores are coming around. WA Legal setup. The past 2 weeks have hit the blank bale hard and its paying off. Now lets see if I can carry this over to our State FITA Indoor in a few weeks.


Nice job :thumbs_up

I shot my first Fita 18 tonight, part of our qualification for Nationals 266 and 271 for a 537, the lighting isn't great in our shooting range, I much prefer the Blue IFAA face, white spot in these conditions. I'm pretty happy with that for a first Fita 18m.


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## centershot

xringer-10 said:


> Sorry, I meant that I shot a 553/600 FITA not a 253/600...


Averaging 9.2 points per arrow for 60 arrows with a non sighted recurve.........wow, excellent shooting.


----------



## xringer-10

Thank you, if you don't count the arrow point as a sight


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## centershot

382/450 (Vegas 450 round-NFAA Trad Legal) last night at leagues. Put 3 in the blue which really killed my score. Overall pretty pleased with the score being how it was the first arrows of the year out of my target rig (Excel w/ 30# limbs).


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## rsarns

steve morley said:


> Nice job :thumbs_up
> 
> I shot my first Fita 18 tonight, part of our qualification for Nationals 266 and 271 for a 537, the lighting isn't great in our shooting range, I much prefer the Blue IFAA face, white spot in these conditions. I'm pretty happy with that for a first Fita 18m.


Nice shooting Steve! Have my son switching over from BB compound to BB recurve right now for our upcoming State FITA Indoor, still playing with tune, but outdoors at 18M last night he shot a decent 251. Still have some work to do to get him closer to point on tho. We will see which he sticks with for Vegas though, it will be his first time this year.

By the way registration for the World Archery Festival (Vegas) is now open. Hope to see lots of the people off here there this year, you guys are posting some pretty good scores.


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## steve morley

The lighter Moon setup (bow mass and draw weight 36#) has allowed my shoulder/neck to heal, when I shot in Hungary/Italy injured I was raising my shoulder, likely a subconscious protection reaction. I'm working on exercises to strengthen the bow shoulder, today shot a PB on Hunter round of 480 with the Vanquish 43# limbs, I've also put the BB weights back on the Vanquish and can handle it with ease again.

Think I killed that urban myth 'Beware the man with only one bow' :tongue:


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## ghostgoblin22

rembrandt said:


> I was born and raised in Palestine.......graduated from PHS and went to Sam Houston on a baseball scholarship. I played against Athens in all three sports. I like the song also and Wayland along with Willie were favorites of mine.......


awesome, yeah i graduated around the time Adrian Peterson played there, got to play against Palestine when i was a sophomore and was the back up mike LB, AD ran right over me like i wasn't even there and knocked me out lol, man he was a brick...


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## centershot

380/450 (8.4 avg. per arrow) Vegas League round last night - NFAA Trad legal setup. Seems to be about my average - I still manage to stick a couple in the blue each round and it really hurts the score. Always something to work on.


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## xringer-10

I seem to be good for 1 - 6 shots in the blue myself. I never get too worked up about it as long as the shot "felt good". Last night I put 4 in the blue with 1 of them being a shot that should have been a let down and felt bad. Those are the shots that I need to eliminate.


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## centershot

Shot a regular NFAA round last night as a change to the Vegas stuff 268 13X. Not too bad, but not great either - fit about right with me being tired and not really focused. Was shooting my Droado w/ 35# TT limbs NFAA Trad legal.


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## Norm Koger

I'm curious, what's the general take on how comparable scores for 30 yards into a 60cm target are to standard 20 yards / 40 cm? Geometrically, they're the same. But I don't know if they would generally be considered somewhat similar measures. I ask because my backyard range setup works best for 30 - 40 yards, and I usually shoot 30 yards at a 60 cm face.


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## Arrowwood

Idk, maybe try a few 40 cm targets from 20 yards and compare them? Somebody might know...

Shooting 230's out of 300 on the fita face, starting out with new (to me) lower poundage limbs. I'm able to keep the tip of the arrow on the target for aiming, thankfully.


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## centershot

Humm, not sure either. I have shot the NFAA 40cm face at 30 yards a few times. I usually shoot about 1/2 point per arrow less ~ 30 points less per round. I would expect similar groups on a 60cm face The scoring would be more forgiving because of the bigger target, but the distance is not forgiving of form errors. 10% is probably pretty close for someone with decent control and ability.


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## logan5

Well I finally broke the 270 mark. Shot a 273 last night. It has taken about 4 years for my scores to creep up from 180's to now over 270. Next goal is to break 280. 

I'm currently shooting a Spigarelli 650 Club with the new Sebastian Flute "velocity" limbs at 37lbs at my 29" draw. I love those limbs. 12" B-stinger stabilizer, Spigarelli Zero Tolerance rest, Beiter plunger, full length 2314 Easton platinum arrows with four 4-inch feathers, Beiter nocks, 200 grain point and total arrow weight of 600 grains. Holding point on with this setup. I'm always looking to optimize my equipment but obviously happy with this setup. 

I hear breaking 280 is super tough?

Curtis


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## centershot

Congrats! 270 is a real milestone. 280, well I have only broken that one time (284 25X). For me it took a very good night without distractions and was just one of those nights where the close ones were just in instead of just out. I started down this trad journey in November 2009 - it definitely takes a while to figure out - and I still tend to learn something about every time I shoot.


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## rsarns

logan5 said:


> Well I finally broke the 270 mark. Shot a 273 last night. It has taken about 4 years for my scores to creep up from 180's to now over 270. Next goal is to break 280.
> 
> I'm currently shooting a Spigarelli 650 Club with the new Sebastian Flute "velocity" limbs at 37lbs at my 29" draw. I love those limbs. 12" B-stinger stabilizer, Spigarelli Zero Tolerance rest, Beiter plunger, full length 2314 Easton platinum arrows with four 4-inch feathers, Beiter nocks, 200 grain point and total arrow weight of 600 grains. Holding point on with this setup. I'm always looking to optimize my equipment but obviously happy with this setup.
> 
> I hear breaking 280 is super tough?
> 
> Curtis


Congrats. I actually made the jump into the 280's within a few months of hitting the 270's. Let me caveat that with only breaking into the 280's in State level competition a couple of times. I still bounce between high 270-low 280's depending on the day. Like Centershot says, its a fine line between just in and just out. Right now and through Vegas I will be shooting just the FITA face target.


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## fieldnfeathers

logan5 said:


> Well I finally broke the 270 mark. Shot a 273 last night. It has taken about 4 years for my scores to creep up from 180's to now over 270. Next goal is to break 280.
> 
> I'm currently shooting a Spigarelli 650 Club with the new Sebastian Flute "velocity" limbs at 37lbs at my 29" draw. I love those limbs. 12" B-stinger stabilizer, Spigarelli Zero Tolerance rest, Beiter plunger, full length 2314 Easton platinum arrows with four 4-inch feathers, Beiter nocks, 200 grain point and total arrow weight of 600 grains. Holding point on with this setup. I'm always looking to optimize my equipment but obviously happy with this setup.
> 
> I hear breaking 280 is super tough?
> 
> Curtis


Congrats! Heck, 270 is a fantastic accomplishment in and of itself. Good luck on the 280.


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## logan5

Thanks for the compliments. 
Being able to make "measurable" progress makes the journey fun and beneficial.


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## spookinelk

Hi all, I've been following this thread for a while, I finally broke down and bought a full size NFAA target so I could try this out. I just finished my my first 300 round and kind of surprised myself by shooting a 238 at 20 yards with my 54# hunting bow. I had a little trouble in the first few ends with a few high and low 2's and 3's then I settled in and shot well in the middle rounds before breaking down a little toward the end with a few left and right 2's and 3's. I'm looking forward to keeping up with how you guys are progressing. You guys in the 280's are a real inspiration to me!


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## rustycase

Many thanks to centershot for this thread!
Gosh there is a lot of inspiration to be found here!

DwayneR is extremely impressive... and his friend, Viper1.  I did buy his book, today.

I have just figured I could set up a 300 course in my yard, in a triangle pattern, while holding badshot risk to the 10yd target and lessening with increasing distance. Bonus!
It's countrified here, yet still a city, with neighbors. Doesn't ever pay to disturb neighbors...
Now I must build backstops.
20 pages of this thread down, 40 to go !!!

Best
rc


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## Starks

Guess I'll chime in since I've read almost the whole thread. New to archery after buying a PSE DNA a year ago and shooting it maybe a dozen times getting it dialed in and developing any kind of form....and was wowed by the accuracy. Only pulled it out for a few minutes here and there a couple more times over the year. Decided to try recurves a couple of months ago after finding a 45# Martin Saber on Craigslist, and enjoying the recurve thing and being the gearhead I am, then added a pawnshop find Greatree Firefox, Samich Phantom, and finally a Dorado to the stable with 45# Hoyt and 35# BlackMax limbs (thanks to Lancaster blowing them out at $99 with free shipping). After getting my shelf and BH in the ballpark and settling on full length Entrada 600's with 125gr points I shot my first full 300 two days ago and......168......argh. This was shooting split fingers and nothing but instinct. Next morning decided I've gotta try this gap thing so went three under for a couple dozen arrows and shot my second 300 at 186....yay....better. Warmed up today and shot my third 300 at a nice even 200. I love this part of the learning curve.

:darkbeer:


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## spookinelk

Shot a round today with my lighter setup (40#) and actually shot worse than with my hunting setup(54#), shot 208 with not a lot of 5s'. Then shot half a round with my hunting setup 122 on 6 ends. Guess this shows I really need to work on my release,I really pound the center with the heavier setup compared to the lighter one. Anyone else have problems when dropping draw weight?


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## cubefx

Shot 252 today. Way below my personal record, but moving up from high 240s to low 250s on average.


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## centershot

logan5 said:


> Being able to make "measurable" progress makes the journey fun and beneficial.


Sure are a lot of people that can't seem to get out of their own way enough to figure that out. Glad your not one of them.


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## centershot

spookinelk said:


> Shot a round today with my lighter setup (40#) and actually shot worse than with my hunting setup(54#), shot 208 with not a lot of 5s'. Then shot half a round with my hunting setup 122 on 6 ends. Guess this shows I really need to work on my release,I really pound the center with the heavier setup compared to the lighter one. Anyone else have problems when dropping draw weight?


Everyone - I think you hit the nail on the head, work on that release and your scores will increase. It is always a balancing act between draw weight and accuracy, and still being accurate without being tired by the end of your 60 arrow round.


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## steve morley

Been away for a week (took my kids to see Grandma in UK), Kats told me I had to do Fita18m for National qualifications 'TODAY'. 

Started off pretty decent with a 270 but felt I was struggling with focus on second half for a 256 so got a 526 in total, only around 10 points under last round but it did feel mentally a lot harder to get that score. Had no single spot faces so shot the 3 spot face, maybe this made it harder mentally.


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## rsarns

steve morley said:


> Been away for a week (took my kids to see Grandma in UK), Kats told me I had to do Fita18m for National qualifications 'TODAY'.
> 
> Started off pretty decent with a 270 but felt I was struggling with focus on second half for a 256 so got a 526 in total, only around 10 points under last round but it did feel mentally a lot harder to get that score. Had no single spot faces so shot the 3 spot face, maybe this made it harder mentally.


Steve, still a decent score. I seem to be suffering with the same issue right now of focus or endurance. SHot my 2nd 600 FITA practice round, shot a strong 277 first half, and a very unstable 259 2nd half (score was better than the shots felt). ANalyzing the shots in the 2nd half, I'd say it was the endurance that got me as I had a great hole at the 5 O'clock position on the 9/8 line.... Wish I had been videoing, it could also just have been a form breakdown. Going to do it again this afternoon and might have to video portions of it.


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## steve morley

If it was too easy I wouldn't quite get that sense satisfaction as when it all comes together, I think that is what has kept me shooting with such strong enthusiasm for almost 30 years


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## rsarns

steve morley said:


> If it was too easy I wouldn't quite get that sense satisfaction as when it all comes together, I think that is what has kept me shooting with such strong enthusiasm for almost 30 years


Makes me keep shooting..


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## rustycase

Yes, that's why I'm here.
It will be a quest for improvement.
The 300 will be perfect, even though I'll need to begin at 10 yards, and a lite DW.
Scoped rifle got boring. Dialed in the right loads and it always did what was expected.
I enjoyed reloading more than punching the paper, after a while. Holing paper was just to prove the load.
Hunting? 2 shots a year. 1 to prove the scope, 1 to drop the meat.
Using a bow will be a big challenge for me. I will look for a qualified coach.
This thread really is inspirational.
rc

...I can not connect to the database.
What's up with that?


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## granite14

shot a 260 vegas round tonight at a league at a new shop with a bunch of strangers. it was good practice for relaxing. I just dropped down in draw weight this week since my 34# limbs cracked. Now shooting 28# limbs cranked all the way in.


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## steve morley

A little rushed for time today, those 5 holes in the top left of the 7 zone were all done in the first 4 ends. I shot 6 warm up arrows on another face and went straight into the round. Trying to get the round done to miss the rush hour traffic and pick up the kids from Kindergarden. consistently shooting 530's so happy with that.

Keeping them within the red zone seems to be mentally working well for me and feel that goal is consistently achievable, next goal is not to drift out of the 8 zone, that should help boost my score.


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## centershot

368/450 last night in leagues - slipped a few points from my average of about 380/450. Have not shot in 2 weeks and it showed. The switch from top to bottom target at midway through the round always gets me for a few points - first shot after the switch went into the black (ugh) second in the blue and third in the yellow. other than that nasty round I had 1 other arrow in the blue everything else red and yellow. My only other excuse is that I was shooting my hunting bow the Dorado w/ 35# TT limbs. Sent the target rig off to Hoyt to have alignment checked out.


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## lippencotte

I finished my first ever league shoot with a 197 and 200 and looking forward to taking my traditional recurve and trying again this year and hopefully start out near where I left off.
I'm currently shooting a couple of rounds at 10 yd to work on form.....


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## steve morley

centershot said:


> slipped a few points from my average of about 380/450. Have not shot in 2 weeks and it showed.


Doesn't that long a shooting break for scores to drop, more than a week I see at least 10 points drop off the scores. Not sure if it's just a Form (i.e. loss of feel) or just a drop in confidence.

It's difficult for me as we have two small kids so Katrin is Indoors coaching most days and I'm at home watching the kids, I'm lucky if I can get 3 rounds a month in, if I get there early enough (before anybody turns up) to practice but I don't give myself enough time I'm either repairing equipment or end up Coaching. I imagined owning my own Indoor range I would get to shoot more often but actually it turned out a less, maybe I should join another club lol

I do practice at home on the range but the colder it gets the less I want to be outside.


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## centershot

The life factor certainly cuts into my shooting time as well. I feel pretty good about my shooting if I can get in 2 rounds per week. I think I actually shoot better shooting 2-3 times per week vs. shooting every day. I think your body needs time to recover - just like any other athletic endeavor. It also gives me time to forget whatever issue I was stewing over during that round and start fresh.


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## rsarns

steve morley said:


> Doesn't that long a shooting break for scores to drop, more than a week I see at least 10 points drop off the scores. Not sure if it's just a Form (i.e. loss of feel) or just a drop in confidence.
> 
> It's difficult for me as we have two small kids so Katrin is Indoors coaching most days and I'm at home watching the kids, I'm lucky if I can get 3 rounds a month in, if I get there early enough (before anybody turns up) to practice but I don't give myself enough time I'm either repairing equipment or end up Coaching. I imagined owning my own Indoor range I would get to shoot more often but actually it turned out a less, maybe I should join another club lol
> 
> I do practice at home on the range but the colder it gets the less I want to be outside.


I'll see today, strained the AC joint in my bow arm about a week ago (maybe less) at the gym, I still have been shooting blind bale in the AM's with a clicker for form work but with very light limbs. If I can make it I'll shoot a 300 round on the Vegas target and see how much I have dropped off. My log book says I haven't shot a practice round since last Friday, but I sometimes forget to log them. I am pretty sure I shouldn't try a 600 round yet.


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## rsarns

WEll I can say 2 things will affect your scores IMHO anyway. Going to the gym before you shoot (Chest and back day - along with the normal 35 Mins on the elliptical) and a layoff of shooting a full round. Shot 2 practice ends like a tourney, then shot the Vegas face 300 round. FIrst 4 ends were very good, 29 AVG (was at 117) next 3 ends were disasters, (26 avg ) and finished with a 268. Didn't finish very well. I took a break and went out and shot 3 ends for score emphasising on form and concentration and scored 30/28/30 with 4 X's.... Back to the bail in the morning and maybe another round tomorrow, as another excuse it was freaking cold... LOL


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## granite14

rsarns said:


> FIrst 4 ends were very good, 29 AVG (was at 117) next 3 ends were disasters, (26 avg ) and finished with a 268. Didn't finish very well.


One man's disaster is another man's goal. Last 2 rounds I shot single 260, then doubles (510, 511). 
Glad to hear you are back at it. I saw you missed the WA Fita from posted scores.

Which clicker do you train with? I need some of that magic.


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## rsarns

granite14 said:


> One man's disaster is another man's goal. Last 2 rounds I shot single 260, then doubles (510, 511).
> Glad to hear you are back at it. I saw you missed the WA Fita from posted scores.
> 
> Which clicker do you train with? I need some of that magic.


RIght now I am using a limb mounted one (clickety clack?). You can get them at lancaster. Easy to install and remove from the string. The son and I were both signed up, but ended up my daughter had a softball tourney and other things got in the way. Getting ready for the Oregon BB shoot and possibly the cascade shoot in Bend. That shoot is a shootdown style with qualifying on friday and Saturday, looks like fun.


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## rustycase

I would like to ask...









Does that Really screw onto the limb?
...and people would Do that?
rc


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## centershot

The screw does not go clear through - it sticks on with 3M type double sided foam tape.


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## rustycase

OK... I didn't think that would be the best idea... They probably should have used a rivet, then.

You have not mentioned your NAP Quicktune 800 in a while... Is it working well for you when you use that bow?
Does it scratch arrow shafts?

Tnx
rc


.


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## Bbastos

So, I've been improving a lot lately. Over the summer I had a lot of problems involving target panic and tried to shoot a 300 round and shot a 96 and made me a bit upset. I finally picked up a clickety clicker a couple weeks ago and tried to shoot another 300 round and scored 205. Yesterday I went to the indoor range and shot 251, I also got a legit robinhood! I can definitely see an improvement.


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## rsarns

The clicker is an amazing tool both for form work and TP. 





Bbastos said:


> So, I've been improving a lot lately. Over the summer I had a lot of problems involving target panic and tried to shoot a 300 round and shot a 96 and made me a bit upset. I finally picked up a clickety clicker a couple weeks ago and tried to shoot another 300 round and scored 205. Yesterday I went to the indoor range and shot 251, I also got a legit robinhood! I can definitely see an improvement.


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## steve morley

Bbastos said:


> So, I've been improving a lot lately. Over the summer I had a lot of problems involving target panic and tried to shoot a 300 round and shot a 96 and made me a bit upset. I finally picked up a clickety clicker a couple weeks ago and tried to shoot another 300 round and scored 205. Yesterday I went to the indoor range and shot 251, I also got a legit robinhood! I can definitely see an improvement.


Great feeling to make such a big jump in scores, congrats. Time to invest in pin nocks :wink:


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## centershot

Stunk it up last night 362/450 Vegas league - had been a long day and my focus was not good - it showed.


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## centershot

370/450 Vegas league last night - My average is sinking as the league is going on - it is supposed to go the other direction!


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## Demmer

Are you pressing the issue? Gotta make sure you are and stay shooting tension free. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## archer_nm

Rusty case they used the screw so you can replace the blade.


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## nakedape

archer_nm said:


> Rusty case they used the screw so you can replace the blade.


the "blade" I am assuming is that spring steel piece? (where do you get replacement?)

when I first saw that picture, I was thinking the same thing also (screw into the limbs)

I believe they use adhesive tape.

this videos shows it mounted to the riser.


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## rustycase

That fellow Johnathon Karch puts on a real good demonstration.
Tnx !
rc


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## steve morley

A word of caution, the metal beading on the clicker actually damaged my bow, left a lot of dents. If you're going to use one make sure the whole aread is taped up/protected.


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## centershot

Demmer said:


> Are you pressing the issue? Gotta make sure you are and stay shooting tension free.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


I think I'm a little too relaxed - nobody to shoot with has caused me to be complacent in my shooting. I have not been practicing - just shooting once a week in leagues......it is difficult to keep motivated without some competition to drive me. Very much considering shooting my compound for the next league just to have someone to shoot against.


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## Demmer

Shoot against us. I know that's where I end up getting a lot of my motivation from. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## centershot

Heck of a drive (~2,000miles) to come shoot with you guys every weekend! I'd love too, but that 'family' part of the equation keeps me fairly close to home. Utah Open is this weekend (4 hour drive)but I don't think there are many Trad shooters show up - at least in the last few years it has been pretty sparse.

Kind of have a little burn-out going on anyway - maybe the compound for a while will recharge my batteries.


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## Demmer

centershot said:


> Heck of a drive (~2,000miles) to come shoot with you guys every weekend! I'd love too, but that 'family' part of the equation keeps me fairly close to home. Utah Open is this weekend (4 hour drive)but I don't think there are many Trad shooters show up - at least in the last few years it has been pretty sparse.
> 
> Kind of have a little burn-out going on anyway - maybe the compound for a while will recharge my batteries.


I meant via Internet.  

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## granite14

Demmer said:


> I meant via Internet.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


maybe we need a virtual tournament threads.
Everybody post a weekly round scorecard pic or scoring app export for all to see.


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## Spikedown

Hello all,
I'm just getting back into archery. Bought a Samick Sage 35lb which I draw to 29.5" about 2 months ago. Got a half dozen GT traditional 500 spine arrows with 100gr heads.

I'm really enjoying it. Borderline obsessing over it really. Anyway, I figured it was time to shoot a 300 round. Funny enough, just me in the backyard and I was nervous! 

First round ever: 20 yds- 172. Was a little disappointed. So I shot a second right after. My nerves calmed and I hard focused on the X. Second round 212. I'm pumped!! The only problem now is my target range is buried in snow.

A big thanks to all of you guys and gals posting on here. I've learned a lot. Very inspiring to hear the progress of others. I can't get enough.


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## rustycase

granite14 said:


> maybe we need a virtual tournament threads.
> Everybody post a weekly round scorecard pic or scoring app export for all to see.


Someone brighter than myself could most likely describe how this could be done with skype, a google hangout, or some sort of conferencing program.
Two cameras, one for the shooter, one for the target, and a lapel mic could make an interesting tourney.

YMMV
rc


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## ranchoarcher

Got some tips when it comes to the clikety clicker. One, get rid of that chain. Just use string which can be twisted to adjusted the length. A brass nock makes attaching it to the bow string easy and offers another point of adjustment. Two, get it as close to the limb tips as possible. Reason for that is the lower on the limb it is the less resistance you'll feel trying to set it off. There are other things you can do like re-drilling the holes on the click plate to make them further apart to lower the level of force required.


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## Demmer

Spikedown said:


> Hello all,
> I'm just getting back into archery. Bought a Samick Sage 35lb which I draw to 29.5" about 2 months ago. Got a half dozen GT traditional 500 spine arrows with 100gr heads.
> 
> I'm really enjoying it. Borderline obsessing over it really. Anyway, I figured it was time to shoot a 300 round. Funny enough, just me in the backyard and I was nervous!
> 
> First round ever: 20 yds- 172. Was a little disappointed. So I shot a second right after. My nerves calmed and I hard focused on the X. Second round 212. I'm pumped!! The only problem now is my target range is buried in snow.
> 
> A big thanks to all of you guys and gals posting on here. I've learned a lot. Very inspiring to hear the progress of others. I can't get enough.


Sweet! Glad to hear this. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## centershot

+1 Spikedown - Shooting traditional is a lot of fun. Shooting the NFAA 300 round is an excellent way to track your progress as well as see what is possible with a stick and string.


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## centershot

365/450 Vegas tonight at leagues - seems to be about average or a bit under for this season.


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## ranchoarcher

Out of curiosity, to any and all. Would you say the 450 is more difficult than a 300 when it comes to maintaining focus? I've broken 270 a few times on the 300 when I got around to doing it and we're doing the same thing in league, 450 rounds. Started at 355 a month or so back and last time was a 374. Best was a 377. A steady climb so far or maybe the first couple times out I was just not there. I do tend to drift off sometimes. It seems more mentally draining gunning for a smaller 10 ring versus the bigger 5. I wonder what people think about 'qualifying'. My thoughts for Vegas is it's going to require breaking 400 otherwise it's pointless spending the money on the trip.


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## centershot

I think the Vegas target is much more difficult than the NFAA face. A few 'just outs' take me from 380 to 370 and one bad shot can hammer you 5 or 6 points in a hurry - put a couple in the blue and you just shot a round in the teens. There are only 3 arrows shot at a time so getting into a rhythm is very difficult. I have shot over 400 several times in practice where I can shoot, pull arrows, shoot, pull arrows etc. - get in a rhythm, but in leagues or tournaments where you shoot, stand around, pull, shoot - it makes it tough to keep focused. Still fun, but a game with some challenges that take a lot of work and focus to overcome.

As for Vegas - you can look on the NFAA website and see what it takes to win there. There are a handfull guys that are very, very good - shooting record scores. If you are going to win there you'd better be keeping all but one or two arrows out of 30 in the yellow. Then do it 3 days in a row with 200 people on the line!


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## steve morley

Did a 300 round last night, I haven't shot much in the last few weeks and it showed (270's), nothing particular felt wrong with my Form/Focus, I just wasn't nailing the spot as often as I normally do. I have been shooting Fita 18m mostly, maybe I just need to get dialed back into 5 arrow ends. :set1_thinking:


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## akfeathers82

Okay, so this is my first time posting in here. I'll start with a brief background, I got into archery about a year ago with my sister. She went the compound route and I am shooting recurve. Started on a PSE Razorback that at 30# proved to be too much draw weight. Three months ago we sold it, and I am now shooting the olympic rig that is in my signature. I love it! Well, the couple that owns the range that I shoot at have been watching me shoot and asked if I had considered shooting at state this January, the range hosts the tournament. It had crossed my mind, and when a second person out there asked I decided to give it a shot. Soooo...... Long story short, I figured that it's about time to start scoring my targets. 214 - I'm not unhappy with this. The first few rounds went really well and then I started to get in my own way... Guess I know what I need to work on.


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## ranchoarcher

Did a 384 this evening so it's coming together bit by bit. For this I was using 30lb 720 long limbs on a tiburon riser making it pull about 34. I think I owe the 10 point jump to plunger spring tweaking. 1/2 turn softer coupled with 800 spine arrows and now it feels like it's aiming straighter. 

Yeah center, the shoot 3 and wait does take the wind out of rhythm and makes gearing up for it each end a little more work. Those shots in the blue sting like a kick in the nuts but at least they're getting fewer. Only recall getting 3 this evening but it still hurt watching that arrow veer off course and there wasn't anything else to blame but me losing focus. I remember reading somewhere that on average we've got about 3 seconds worth of focus time at full draw. Since I really slow the draw down the hold appears to be beyond 3 seconds even though I'm not really stopped but maybe that's something to work on, speeding up the shot. More to do!


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## centershot

Shot a NFAA 300 (as a change of pace to all the Vegas stuff) last weekend 269, A little off the pace from where I usually shoot on that target but not too bad.


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## centershot

ranchoarcher said:


> Did a 384 this evening so it's coming together bit by bit. For this I was using 30lb 720 long limbs on a tiburon riser making it pull about 34. I think I owe the 10 point jump to plunger spring tweaking. 1/2 turn softer coupled with 800 spine arrows and now it feels like it's aiming straighter.
> 
> Yeah center, the shoot 3 and wait does take the wind out of rhythm and makes gearing up for it each end a little more work. Those shots in the blue sting like a kick in the nuts but at least they're getting fewer. Only recall getting 3 this evening but it still hurt watching that arrow veer off course and there wasn't anything else to blame but me losing focus. I remember reading somewhere that on average we've got about 3 seconds worth of focus time at full draw. Since I really slow the draw down the hold appears to be beyond 3 seconds even though I'm not really stopped but maybe that's something to work on, speeding up the shot. More to do!


Watch a few videos of Demmer shooting last year - he really yanked that bow back quick, then settled in and held for a long time before executing the shot. Not sure what that was all about, but it was really working for him.


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## mrjeffro

This has been a great, long running thread. I am always impressed by the guys shooting in the 280's and seeing the huge improvement over the years from guys shooting 200 and now in the 270's is great inspiration for everyone.. 

4 years ago I went from being a team captain in our winter league to the absolute worst shooter when I sold all my compounds and jumped in 100% with a recurve. 
(Back then there were 2 recurve shooters. Now there are 7 of us) The entire first winter season I never had 5 scoreable arrows on MY target in a round. Other guys targets,yes, my targets , no  . Embarrassing was an understatement

That first year I couldn't break 200. I was getting frustrated but still loved the challenge. The following winter I broke 210. 240 seemed like a far off goal that I finally reached the following summer. During that time I have met and shot with some top notch shooters who helped me tremendously. Viper, Len Cardinale, Joel Turner, John Wert, Rod Jenkins to name a few. 

After seeing Barebow scores posted by John Demmer, Dewayne Martin and Jimmy Blackmon , I wanted to try out a dedicated BB to see how different it would be from my wood riser 50# bow being shot off the shelf to a metal riser,internal weights and plunger/rest. This past weekend I shot my first, partially tuned, BB 300 round. Still using tape for a nocking point I was curious how I would shoot. My 50# hunting bow was averaging mid 250's this year. Well, this weekend was my first go-around with this metal, LONG and heavy bare bow. First round shot a 93. Second round 90. Then all the thoughts started creeping in. " holy crap, I am going to break 270" . The first arrow of my third round, a ZERO. Ended with a 17 on that round and couldn't clear my head. Ended up with a 267. The mental part of archery is tough. 

Hoping to break into the 270's this winter. Target bow put away for now. Hunting bow back in action again. Idaho next month


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## motarded

Shot my first round. Did it in my yard, just to see how it would go after reading through this thread. Hoyt excel, 45# tt limbs, NAP centrist, shooting split finger instinctive. Managed to shoot at 204 5x. I was pretty stoked with that. Planning on doing it once a week until leagues start in mid january.


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## steve morley

centershot said:


> Watch a few videos of Demmer shooting last year - he really yanked that bow back quick, then settled in and held for a long time before executing the shot. Not sure what that was all about, but it was really working for him.


If you compare John and Dewayne in that video they have very different styles but the striking thing with both of them was how well their front shoulder and bow hand remained in total control from the start of the draw till the arrow hit paper. :thumbs_up


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## centershot

+1, that is what shooting in control looks like!


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## ranchoarcher

One thing I noticed about both of them is they come down to the target versus raising up to it. Seems that way watching the bow's position relative to the background. I've tried both and lowering is easier than trying to lift up to it from below. Posting scores like they do it goes to show there as many ways to shoot a bow as there are people shooting them. Impressive and inspiring.


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## steve morley

I'm shooting a little more like a target Archer, start my setup just above the target face, my 4" draw puts me right in the spot and go almost straight into aiming/expansion which keeps me locked on the spot, this small adjustment has seen a big jump in my scores, when done exactly right, it's normally an X, still working on the flow/timing when I get that part 100% repeatable I hope to see another improvement in scores. 

For me it seems effortless drawing this way, before I would do the long draw, wait around 4-5 seconds for the float to settle in the spot and then go into expansion, sometimes I felt the clock was running and I went into expansion when I was only 'close enough to the spot' which put pressure in my shot, I made a lot more mistakes this way.


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## centershot

372/450 at Vegas League last night - one little collapse and dropped one into the black - ugh. Other than that brain fart, had a pretty good round with 2 just in the blue, all the others red or better.


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## Stepheat

During the winter and bad weather, I shoot in my basement at ten yards. I have a Powerpoint program which scales the target to whatever distance you shoot. This way I can somewhat interpolate what the score would be at twenty yards.


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## granite14

Stepheat said:


> During the winter and bad weather, I shoot in my basement at ten yards. I have a Powerpoint program which scales the target to whatever distance you shoot. This way I can somewhat interpolate what the score would be at twenty yards.


how well do your scores correlate to actual 20yd scores?


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## UtahIdahoHunter

Last night, FITA Vegas face 18m 392/450 and 269/300. It's a new high for me. In one of my leagues we shoot a 450 vegas, but I also count the first 10 ends for a 300 score. I kind of fell apart on the last 5 ends.


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## granite14

Excited to finally reached 270 Vegas face, albeit practice only.


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## steve morley

granite14 said:


> Excited to finally reached 270 Vegas face, albeit practice only.


The first hurdle is doing it in practice, once you do it consistently in practice you can then do it in competition. :thumbs_up


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## archer_nm

Good shooting hope to see all of you in Vegas!


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## UtahIdahoHunter

granite14 said:


> Excited to finally reached 270 Vegas face, albeit practice only.


So you hit 270? I have been so close 4 times now. Maybe tonight is my night. Shooting down with the Brigham Bowmen. It's a great group of shooters.


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## centershot

270 on a Vegas face is excellent shooting. That is averaging a 9 for 30 shots! Great shooting!


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## rsarns

Tuesday shot a 277 Vegas face, blew the last end (started thinking I'd break the 280 barrier), shot a 25 last end, first arrow a 7... uggghhhh. Big jump from last week, where I shot a 263 and was struggling mightily with tune issues and "brain farts". I had reset up my bows for my ACE's, and just grabbed the bows and my 2315's and went and shot league... LOL Never reset centershot. Figured it out near the end, oh well. Today we shall see how I do. I am thinking of setting one Gillo up with a 12" stab (NFAA legal) and keep the other WA legal at least thru the Oregon BB shoot. Then after the State shoot I will play with the long stab setup to get ready for Vegas. 

SOmething I just started doing this year in practice as I had done in previous years is practice the same as we shoot a tourney. I do 2 practice ends, set the timer, shoot my 3 arrows. Then I let 1 minute elapse,(simulate the next line coming up) start the 2 minutes over, and sit, just like the other line was shooting. Then walk down and score, making sure to let 5 minutes elapse. Then repeat through the complete round. Practicing like it's a real shoot really helps me.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

rsarns said:


> Tuesday shot a 277 Vegas face, blew the last end (started thinking I'd break the 280 barrier), shot a 25 last end, first arrow a 7... uggghhhh. Big jump from last week, where I shot a 263 and was struggling mightily with tune issues and "brain farts". I had reset up my bows for my ACE's, and just grabbed the bows and my 2315's and went and shot league... LOL Never reset centershot. Figured it out near the end, oh well. Today we shall see how I do. I am thinking of setting one Gillo up with a 12" stab (NFAA legal) and keep the other WA legal at least thru the Oregon BB shoot. Then after the State shoot I will play with the long stab setup to get ready for Vegas.
> 
> SOmething I just started doing this year in practice as I had done in previous years is practice the same as we shoot a tourney. I do 2 practice ends, set the timer, shoot my 3 arrows. Then I let 1 minute elapse,(simulate the next line coming up) start the 2 minutes over, and sit, just like the other line was shooting. Then walk down and score, making sure to let 5 minutes elapse. Then repeat through the complete round. Practicing like it's a real shoot really helps me.


277 Wow! Nice shooting. I have barely broke 270 a couple of times, but I don't want to count it unless I'm shooting for score in league. I can definately tell a difference in my heartrate and breathing when I'm shooting for score.

When is the Oregon Shoot?


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## UtahIdahoHunter

Centershot are you going to Oregon or Vegas? I'm looking forward to finally meeting you.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

Well I shot two rounds this evening. First round was for league score 263 and the second one was for practice and shot a 262. At least I'm consistant. Ha 
I need to figure out how to get rid of those flyers. If I can get rid of those I should consistantly be low 270's. I know that it's just a loss of focus.


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## rsarns

Oregon Bb shoot http://www.sylvanarchers.org/flyers/2016_BarebowChallenge.pdf. 

Well today was an adventure. 268 struggled with the top target (1st half), shot a decent 2nd half of 139. Biggest issue was not expanding thru the shot Always something to work on. .


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## ranchoarcher

Last night of vegas league and ended with a 385. Note to self. Don't listen to jokes being told by other shooters who've completed. Threw one from the top 3 spot into the 6 ring of the bottom left. A zip but the punch line was good! One of the better compound shooters who usually gets a 448 or 449 decided to shoot trad this last time. He was a good sport about it even though many an arrow missed the target completely. Final was somewhere around 150 and that was with a sight. For the first time out I think it shows some potential and considering what he's used to he held his composure quite well. Bow didn't get thrown and the arrows weren't snapped in half.


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## centershot

UtahIdahoHunter said:


> Centershot are you going to Oregon or Vegas? I'm looking forward to finally meeting you.


Doubt I'll do any of the bigger shoots this year - Our state tourney is in Moscow (450 miles north). Likely just shoot the couple of local shoots and call it good. May even do those with my compound. Getting very tired of being the only recurve shooter around........bigCnyn kind of warned me about this - he went through the same thing a few years back. If you get close to Twin Falls, let me know. We can go down to the MVB range and shoot a few arrows.


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## grantmac

Finally back in a place with my shooting where I feel like I can record some scores. This is in my shed which I've paced at 19yds or so, hardly official.
Vegas scoring:
256 and 269

Pretty strong for me.

Grant


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## centershot

Finished up our Vegas league last night 368/450. Was shooting pretty good until the jokes started - I just can not ignore a good punch line. The joke was good, the shot was in the black - ha ha. Averaged just over 371 or 8.24 points per arrow for 450 arrows over 10 weeks. Not bad but certainly not up to my potential. I have just not had the motivation to practice or work very hard at it this season........I think I may have a little Trad burnout.


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## mrjeffro

"trad burnout"...never heard of such a thing


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## steve morley

centershot said:


> I think I may have a little Trad burnout.


Totally gone off the boil, I'm not doing anything bad with my Form, still grouping respectable, just not nailing that spot like I have been. I'm starting think it's a concentration issue, if I shoot too much indoors I just get bored with the same distance/face and lose focus.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

Shot Monday night in a Fita/Vegas 300 league and shot 260 then again last night in Fita/Vegas 450 league and shot a 395. Just can't break the 270 or 400. I left a couple of arrows out in the blue both nights. I just need to reel in those OUTLIERS. Grrrr

One of my clubs is having a Vegas Warmup Tournament in a couple of weeks, looking forward to that then Oregon.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

I shot in a Vegas Warm up Tournament over the weekend. The first round I stunk it up with a 256 (It was freezing in there, early shoot time). The second round I shot a 266 and was very happy with that. I had a total of 522 (It's a little lower than I had hoped). It was nice to shoot with a little pressure on me. I did end up with a cool belt buckle by default. Ha


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## rsarns

Took a bit of time off due to a shoulder issue. (again). One of these years I am going to get it fixed..LOL SHot a bit of practice last Friday, and last night was tuning a new riser. Decided after I got the tune close to shoot a 300 round on the Vegas face, our State tourney is coming up this coming weekend. FIrst half was great, shot top target and recorded a 139 with 6 X. 2nd half was less than that by a bit, 129 and 3 X. Last 2 ends cost me a bunch of points, could be focus or getting tired as I had shot for well over an hour getting 2 bows tuned up. Good excuses anyway. I have 2 leagues to shoot this week, and daily practice if the weather cooperates before my State rounds on Sat and Sun. I am shooting 2 different classes this weekend, so I need to have the endurance up!


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## JINKSTER

How does one get "Trad Burnout" whilst shooting a "Vegas Target"?


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## UtahIdahoHunter

rsarns said:


> Took a bit of time off due to a shoulder issue. (again). One of these years I am going to get it fixed..LOL SHot a bit of practice last Friday, and last night was tuning a new riser. Decided after I got the tune close to shoot a 300 round on the Vegas face, our State tourney is coming up this coming weekend. FIrst half was great, shot top target and recorded a 139 with 6 X. 2nd half was less than that by a bit, 129 and 3 X. Last 2 ends cost me a bunch of points, could be focus or getting tired as I had shot for well over an hour getting 2 bows tuned up. Good excuses anyway. I have 2 leagues to shoot this week, and daily practice if the weather cooperates before my State rounds on Sat and Sun. I am shooting 2 different classes this weekend, so I need to have the endurance up!


Nice shooting. That 139 is awesome. My best this year is a 136 on 5 ends.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

JINKSTER said:


> How does one get "Trad Burnout" whilst shooting a "Vegas Target"?


It does get a bit boring at times. I imagine those guys shooting 300's get really bored. Ha


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## centershot

I think my burnout has more to do with "Trad" in general. The targets are all the same to me, sure some are a little harder to score on than others but shooting a high quality shot has very little to do with what I'm shooting at. I have plateaued, and now have to work very hard at it to get much better. There is nobody shooting with me to push me and complacency has set it. Last couple weeks I have been shooting my hunting compound and having fun with it - (shot a 299/300 17X Vegas BHFS Sunday). I think a little break will be a good thing for me, hopefully fuel the fire for some recurve shooting this summer.

Nice to see you post in a target thread Jinks, have you actually shot and scored a full round yet?


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## grantmac

You and I both Center. A 300 Vegas BHFS is exceptional shooting. 

Grant


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## Halfcawkt

SCS said:


> NFAA indoor target at 20 yards, 12 rounds of 5 arrows, scored 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 from the center out.
> I shot again last night. Boy, that sucked! Couldn't pull through the shot at all.
> Steve


Ok, all that makes sense, but now I'm wondering what size target face is proper to use. Archery suppliers sell different sizes, but I'm not sure which is fair to use at 20 yard mark.


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## centershot

Thanks, I have only shot 3 rounds with it lately but averaging 298 with over 50% X's. Kind of surprised me too - I think some of the discipline that it takes to shoot a recurve well has translated to my compound shooting. It's all fun.


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## centershot

Halfcawkt said:


> Ok, all that makes sense, but now I'm wondering what size target face is proper to use. Archery suppliers sell different sizes, but I'm not sure which is fair to use at 20 yard mark.


40cm - white or yellow is about 3" across


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## JINKSTER

centershot said:


> Nice to see you post in a target thread Jinks, have you actually shot and scored a full round yet?


Yep...100's of'em...20+ years ago! LOL!

Recently?...no...but if I ever get the urge to experience some high stress boredom?...it'll be the first thing I do! LOL!

I just swung by to see what 62 pages of it look like and first thing I see?..."Trad Burnout"....on a Vegas Target...gee...wonder how that happens? LOL!


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## steve morley

Shot two Fita 18m last night, haven't shot Indoors for about a month, the break seems to have done me good as I'm back to my normal scoring 534 and 531.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

steve morley said:


> Shot two Fita 18m last night, haven't shot Indoors for about a month, the break seems to have done me good as I'm back to my normal scoring 534 and 531.


Nice shooting.


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## centershot

JINKSTER said:


> Yep...100's of'em...20+ years ago! LOL!
> 
> Recently?...no...but if I ever get the urge to experience some high stress boredom?...it'll be the first thing I do! LOL!
> 
> I just swung by to see what 62 pages of it look like and first thing I see?..."Trad Burnout"....on a Vegas Target...gee...wonder how that happens? LOL!


I see a lot of your posts in the FITA forum (a target forum) so I was curious if maybe you had started. I saw where you had purchased a full blown target rig and though maybe you had a change of heart. I find it strange myself that you feel that creates "high stress and boredom". All the target does is record your shooting. It gives a base line to see if an equipment or form change was a positive influence or not. It seems that a lot of guys get hung up on the total at the end rather than the process involved in each shot that add up to that total at the end.

My issue is the lack of other shooters to shoot and compete with. There are plenty of Trad shooters around, but they don't like the honesty of that piece of paper with a white dot in the middle. I would gladly shoot the next league with my recurve if there were some others to shoot with - but like UtahIdahoHunter said above those trophies by default are not exactly satisfying. I suppose burnout is not the proper term (maybe bummed out that there are no other recurve shooters), I very much enjoy shooting the recurve and scoring targets - but shooting alone stinks.


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## JINKSTER

centershot said:


> I see a lot of your posts in the FITA forum (a target forum) so I was curious if maybe you had started. I saw where you had purchased a full blown target rig and though maybe you had a change of heart. I find it strange myself that you feel that creates "high stress and boredom". All the target does is record your shooting. It gives a base line to see if an equipment or form change was a positive influence or not. It seems that a lot of guys get hung up on the total at the end rather than the process involved in each shot that add up to that total at the end.
> 
> My issue is the lack of other shooters to shoot and compete with. There are plenty of Trad shooters around, but they don't like the honesty of that piece of paper with a white dot in the middle. I would gladly shoot the next league with my recurve if there were some others to shoot with - but like UtahIdahoHunter said above those trophies by default are not exactly satisfying. I suppose burnout is not the proper term (maybe bummed out that there are no other recurve shooters), I very much enjoy shooting the recurve and scoring targets - but shooting alone stinks.


I agree...it does blow when you're the only one showing too a shoot with a sight free single string bow.

Scoring just isn't important to me at this time and I really don't need to hang a target to know whether or not my execution was all it could be or if my arrow met it's mark or not.

I'm still in the healing process of a mental injury known as TP and have been for quite some time...I feel hanging a target at this point would be tempting fate and much like going for a jog right after a cast was removed from my broken leg....unwise.

The good news?...I seem to be progressing and regaining confidence in my ability to control every aspect of each and every shot...the day I'm ready to hang a target and tally score?....will be....

"The Day I Want To"


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## centershot

10-4, seems that piece of paper can have some real taboo attached to it. I use it to judge how I shot that session, to see if a change I made is working, etc. Sure I know my Personal Bests and averages but to get to those scores the arrows have to be shot one at a time. I have never shot a PB by starting off saying I'm going to shoot a PB today - it's just the result of the arrows shot that session. 

If that piece of paper creates anxiety just by shooting it then I agree - there are probably some other issues going on and should probably be addressed. Shooting when the bow is in control and not the archer is not fun.

For me the goal is to shoot a well controlled and well executed shot - the arrow in the bow is the only one that matters, the target does not - the score is just a tally of those shots and a report of how I shot on that day, nothing more. If you go into it with a little different attitude you may find shooting the dreaded target round quite beneficial - and the original idea behind this 1,550 post 63 page thread.

There is also a pride issue that is difficult to deal with. There are guys that have been shooting for years and years, show up to an indoor event and are not very satisfied with their performance. This is a difficult time for the archer as he now has to swallow his pride and work at his craft or like many, they do not participate again. I find this to be a very unfortunate issue that keeps many shooters from achieving their potential. I sure wish I knew of a way to make it easier on one's self esteem, but I do not. I certainly commend the ones that have been brave enough to show their progress along with me on this thread. It has been a very good and informative one for me.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

I am still working on this, but a person has to get over the *fear of missing*. I try to relax and have fun even in tournaments.


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## grantmac

For someone who has TP hanging a target and shooting for score is going to be a train wreck in the beginning and that is the point! Unless you can make the shot under pressure you really don't have control, period.
Learning to perform under stress requires stress. Embracing it until that stress becomes the new normal is part of the process. Failing, losing control and gaining it back is critical.

You don't learn to box by hitting a heavy bag. It's an important skill but it just can't ever hit back. A scored target is your sparing partner.

Grant


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## JINKSTER

Shadow Boxing Rox! LOL!!!


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## steve morley

Think of it this way, it's impossible to miss so why stress over it, you release the arrow you're going to hit something. :wink:


A few years ago I was helping somebody beat TP, after a couple of days of close range grooving his shot sequence he was nagging me to shoot some real targets, I took him out to the Field 30y but it was foggy and he could hardly see the target, I told him not to worry and just focus on the process, he shot 5 arrows in a 3" group. Aiming is soooooooo overrated and we put far more effort into it than is actually required.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

grantmac said:


> For someone who has TP hanging a target and shooting for score is going to be a train wreck in the beginning and that is the point! Unless you can make the shot under pressure you really don't have control, period.
> Learning to perform under stress requires stress. Embracing it until that stress becomes the new normal is part of the process. Failing, losing control and gaining it back is critical.
> 
> You don't learn to box by hitting a heavy bag. It's an important skill but it just can't ever hit back. A scored target is your sparing partner.
> 
> Grant


Very good. I am new to this indoor game, but I think that I handle stressful situations well. Maybe the years of golf tournaments helped that (That is some pressure) You miss a two foot putt and look like an idiot. Many people develop the yips from that.

Sunday I was paired up in that tournament with a guy that was shooting BHFS and is a decent shooter. I have seen him shoot low 290's in the past during league. He was really feeling the pressure and shaking so bad that I thought he would miss the target at times. I could tell he was crazy nervous. I felt bad for him and actually I ended up beating him with my barebow. Talk about insult to injury. That will wreck your confidence.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

steve morley said:


> Think of it this way, it's impossible to miss so why stress over it, you release the arrow you're going to hit something. :wink:
> 
> 
> A few years ago I was helping somebody beat TP, after a couple of days of close range grooving his shot sequence he was nagging me to shoot some real targets, I took him out to the Field 30y but it was foggy and he could hardly see the target, I told him not to worry and just focus on the process, he shot 5 arrows in a 3" group. Aiming is soooooooo overrated and we put far more effort into it than is actually required.


For me I'm talking about missing the yellow. Ha

I shoot so much better when I quit worrying about mechanics and do what feels natural. I have one thought in my mind when I shoot "smooth". Everything almost slows down. It is really hard to maintain that for 30 arrows at times.


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## centershot

It takes work to get to the point of doing what feels natural and having good results. Just like golf, you have to work out all of the details very specifically with conscious thought and practice. Eventually, with proper practice the motions will become second nature and you can move on to other aspects of the shot. I am firmly in the camp that thinks shooting with a sequence is the way to go. Breaking the shot down into little steps that can be accomplished one by one builds confidence in my shot.


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## steve morley

The truth is you will never eliminate competitive pressure because it's a natural part of the competition process, the best way to deal with it is do what the Koreans do, embrace and enjoy that pressure.

Pressure will only hold you back if you allow it to affect you in a negative way but with a positive attitude you can make it work for you.


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## JINKSTER

I don't shoot archery to expose myself too or place myself under "Stress"....I'm a 50-60hr a week aerospace machinist...I get enough of that...and I have plenty of inspectors who verify and check "My Accuracy"....I shoot to decompress...have fun....and relax. 

And oddly enough?...my acute TP seems to be leaving the building!


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## steve morley

Bill I understand work pressure (when I worked for the bank, backing up server with 75.000.000 Euro transaction when it crashed) but Archery competitive pressure is more like driving around a race track, or standing on stage performing/speaking.


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## jogilvie69

I got my first recurve bow about three weeks ago. After reading this post I decided to shoot my first 300 round. I shot the blue and white single spot target from 10 yards. Ended up with a 250. Not great but hey, I had to start somewhere. I'm not shooting anywhere near good enough to try it from 20 yards yet. After shooting those 60 arrows I was flat wore out. After doing a lot of reading on here and talking to Viper1, I'm going to be getting a lighter bow ASAP. It's kind of hard to shoot well when you can't hold still once you anchor. I'm having a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do with a lighter bow.


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## centershot

Have not shot my Dorado in a while so I decided to shoot a round today. 270 10X, not too bad considering I have not shot a stickbow in over a month (been shooting my compound Bowhunter Freestyle rig).


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## steve morley

Last week I changed my whole setup, back to the Vanquish riser (I really missed it), the Moon shoots very well but feels spongy compared to the stiff/sharp feel of the Vanquish and the grip is far nicer, I also switched back to skinny arrows. Friday/Sat I shot 530/531 on the fita 18m and this morning 537, another 7-8 days and I'll be nicely grooved back into the bow. Feels so good to be shooting it again 

Previously I left it as my Field/3D setup because it was tuned and shooting so nice but decided to take the risk and re-tune for Indoors.


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## bfisherman11

We had an indoor spot shoot at my club last weekend. personally I enjoy the 300 game. I choose to shoot bows that I also would hunt with or do summer 3d's.

Sunday I shot my Border limbs and Jennings (Warf riser), it is about 53#@28". This is a very FAST combo. Prior to this shoot I had maybe shot a dozen arrows from this rig. Knowing the style I shoot (instinctive), weight of my arrows and draw weight. I realize I might not achieve as high a score as I might be capable of with a heavy arrow low draw weight bow but that is the game I choose. For me, anything in the 240 range is pretty good based on my skill and equipment. 

I finished with a 243 and felt like I could have done 250 with this rig. The Jennings may not be a pretty riser, but these Border limbs make for a nice shooting rig.

Best regards and keep at it guys!

Bill


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## steve morley

With 53# that's impressive :thumbs_up

Can't handle those weights anymore :sad:


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## centershot

Good shooting, that may be the only Border/Jennings in existence. We need a pic of that bow!


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## steve morley

centershot said:


> Good shooting, that may be the only Border/Jennings in existence. We need a pic of that bow!


I had a Groves Spitfire with Border limbs and a Kodiak TD as well, pretty sure the only ones. I broke the Kodiak limbs on a steep downhill shot, bottom limb hit the shooting stake. Grove's limbs failed after Howard passed away, the previous owner Robbie at Border made me both sets of limbs. Like an idiot I sold both bows.


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## bfisherman11

Centershot, Here it is. I am shooting off a Bear stick on rest now but am thinking about converting this to shoot off the shelf.

I really like these Border limbs.

Bill


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## centershot

That is a great looking rig. Some of those old compound risers had excellent grip designs. Looks like a very stable and fast rig. Makes me want to start looking for an old Jennings to Warf!


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## bfisherman11

Thanks Centershot. I am just getting to know this combination/rig. I had these Hex6 limbs on a 17"DAS and it shot well but was a tad heavy. I like this Jennings because I believe it is about a 19" riser and points well. With that leather pad the grip is comfortable. 3 Rivers has them for about $4.

Bill


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## moog5050

Snowed in today (travel advisory) so I decided to shoot my first 300 round since before hunting season in my basement 20yd range. Just me and the dog. Lol. Shot 262 - 88/86/88. I decided to shoot the second half of the round seated. I don't compete in target shooting so these rounds are more to confirm accuracy for hunting and for fun. That said, why not shoot seated for part of the round like I do in a stand at times. I was surprised that my seated score (132) was 2 points better than the standing score (130). Anyways, very happy with the start. I was shooting about 180 this time last year. Huge improvements in my first year of trad shooting. Now to try to improve to 270s regularly. That is the goal for 2016. Being 2 for 2 on deer my first trad season, I am actually thinking of selling the compound and focusing exclusively on my recurves. Shooting well to 30yds is the key for me to take that leap. We'll see come spring when I can practice outdoors.

Btw- shot with my new to me BW PSAX 54lber. Really like the BW standard grip. No thought at hand position at all. Should be a great hunting rig.


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## theskyiscrying

moog5050 said:


> Snowed in today (travel advisory) so I decided to shoot my first 300 round since before hunting season in my basement 20yd range. Just me and the dog. Lol. Shot 262 - 88/86/88. I decided to shoot the second half of the round seated. I don't compete in target shooting so these rounds are more to confirm accuracy for hunting and for fun. That said, why not shoot seated for part of the round like I do in a stand at times. I was surprised that my seated score (132) was 2 points better than the standing score (130). Anyways, very happy with the start. I was shooting about 180 this time last year. Huge improvements in my first year of trad shooting. Now to try to improve to 270s regularly. That is the goal for 2016. Being 2 for 2 on deer my first trad season, I am actually thinking of selling the compound and focusing exclusively on my recurves. Shooting well to 30yds is the key for me to take that leap. We'll see come spring when I can practice outdoors.


Congrats Moog!

Question for you. What setup are you shooting? Any sights, etc?

I'm a newbie and shoot totally barebow.. I want to know what would be a reasonable goal (I know 300 is the goal), shooting barebow.


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## steve morley

theskyiscrying said:


> Congrats Moog!
> 
> 
> I'm a newbie and shoot totally barebow.. I want to know what would be a reasonable goal (I know 300 is the goal), shooting barebow.


Depends on the bow and poundage, Longbow, split finger and woodies (IFAA rules) 200 is the benchmark but the top guys can shoot in the 250's, Recurve Gapping 240 to 280 depending on the poundage (some like to shoot hunting weights), lower weights can shoot some really good scores if they get their gap close to the spot and Barebow Stringwalking I personally consider 270 the benchmark and the top guys in the low to mid 290's.


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## moog5050

theskyiscrying said:


> Congrats Moog!
> 
> Question for you. What setup are you shooting? Any sights, etc?
> 
> I'm a newbie and shoot totally barebow.. I want to know what would be a reasonable goal (I know 300 is the goal), shooting barebow.


I have a number of recurves but all are hunting bows. This round was shot with a black widow psax 54lbs. I shoot barebow and gap. What is a good score is all relative unless you are shooting 290s. If you are just starting out, shoot a few rounds to get a base score and then spend more time on blank bail form work going back once a week or less often to check progress. At least that's how I did it. I think I progressed reasonably fast so it worked for me. I started shooting traditional in Jan 2015 and went from 180s to a best of 272 before hunting season last year. I do shoot daily and tend to be ultra competitive (even just with my own progress). 

Don't worry what your base score is. Set small goals (8-10pts/mo improvement). They add up quickly. Have fun. It can become addicting.


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## theskyiscrying

moog5050 said:


> I have a number of recurves but all are hunting bows. This round was shot with a black widow psax 54lbs. I shoot barebow and gap. What is a good score is all relative unless you are shooting 290s. If you are just starting out, shoot a few rounds to get a base score and then spend more time on blank bail form work going back once a week or less often to check progress. At least that's how I did it. I think I progressed reasonably fast so it worked for me. I started shooting traditional in Jan 2015 and went from 180s to a best of 272 before hunting season last year. I do shoot daily and tend to be ultra competitive (even just with my own progress).
> 
> Don't worry what your base score is. Set small goals (8-10pts/mo improvement). They add up quickly. Have fun. It can become addicting.


Thanks for the advice!

I want faster progress, but that's the way it goes.. just need lots of string time.....


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## centershot

moog5050 said:


> I have a number of recurves but all are hunting bows. This round was shot with a black widow psax 54lbs. I shoot barebow and gap. What is a good score is all relative unless you are shooting 290s. If you are just starting out, shoot a few rounds to get a base score and then spend more time on blank bail form work going back once a week or less often to check progress. At least that's how I did it. I think I progressed reasonably fast so it worked for me. I started shooting traditional in Jan 2015 and went from 180s to a best of 272 before hunting season last year. I do shoot daily and tend to be ultra competitive (even just with my own progress).
> 
> Don't worry what your base score is. Set small goals (8-10pts/mo improvement). They add up quickly. Have fun. It can become addicting.


Great advice. Remember the score is just a total of the 60 shots you fired off during that session. Add them up at the end and compare to your personal average. There are some very fine shooters posting on here, but they all started off missing the entire target face once in a while. It will take some work on your part to hit many of the milestones 200, 220, 240, 260 - 270. Once you get to the 280 mark on a regular basis you will be in rare company - very few can do that on a regular basis, even to shoot 250+ on a regular basis will put you among the best Traditional archers.


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## moog5050

Good point CS. To improve 10pts, you only have to shoot 1 of every 6 arrows just a little better. The little improvements make a nice score in the end. Obviously progress gets harder the higher your average score. This year I would be happy if my average score increased 10-15pts over the entire year. Most importantly for me is that I am at a level I can hunt with confidence. That was always the goal.


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## theskyiscrying

centershot said:


> Great advice. Remember the score is just a total of the 60 shots you fired off during that session. Add them up at the end and compare to your personal average. There are some very fine shooters posting on here, but they all started off missing the entire target face once in a while. It will take some work on your part to hit many of the milestones 200, 220, 240, 260 - 270. Once you get to the 280 mark on a regular basis you will be in rare company - very few can do that on a regular basis, even to shoot 250+ on a regular basis will put you among the best Traditional archers.


Thank you for the benchmarks!

I've been at archery about 8 weeks now and I learn something new everyday! I shoot from 3-5 times per week, depending on work schedule.
I shot a 203 week ago Sunday and I was very pleased with that...


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## moog5050

theskyiscrying said:


> Thank you for the benchmarks!
> 
> I've been at archery about 8 weeks now and I learn something new everyday! I shoot from 3-5 times per week, depending on work schedule.
> I shot a 203 week ago Sunday and I was very pleased with that...


That's a great score 8 weeks in. Congrats!


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## theskyiscrying

Thanks Moog.

I do really love it and trying to absorb as much as possible.

Thanks again


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## nakedape

Been shooting more than 4 months now, 
Shot 30 arrows last week, I think that is the best I have shot so far, hopefully it wasn't a fluke ;-)
should have kept score.... 

btw, i do have a sight, no aperture using a 10/24 bolt,
no clicker


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## steve morley

After only 4 months that's very good. Keep it up. :thumbs_up


I know some people that have been shooting for years can't do that, their biggest problem, too proud to ask for help. After 30 years I still go for help when I run into issues.


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## hammer08

Good shooting guys. Keep practicing and working on your form and you'll be surprised with the scores you can shoot. 

My scores went from 200 to 280's in a year, and even better after 2 years, with a lot of hard work and a lot of practice. I also got lucky and met the right people who helped me a lot. Find the best shooters you can and listen to them.


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## centershot

If you will take a look way back at the beginning of this thread you will see where I was just scratching 200 - somewhere in the 60+ pages and 1500+ posts I worked my way up to shooting 270's pretty regularly. If I can do it, anyone can - it just takes time, patience and most of all control of your shot.....it really is a lot of fun shooting traditional equipment and keeping track of your scores with the NFAA 300 target is a great way of tracking progress.


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## granite14

centershot said:


> If you will take a look way back at the beginning of this thread you will see where I was just scratching 200 - somewhere in the 60+ pages and 1500+ posts I worked my way up to shooting 270's pretty regularly. If I can do it, anyone can - it just takes time, patience and most of all control of your shot.....it really is a lot of fun shooting traditional equipment and keeping track of your scores with the NFAA 300 target is a great way of tracking progress.


so you got out of your trad burnout? what did you do, or am I thinking of someoneelse.. I think that's where I am at.


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## Demmer

Is it burnout, or is it that you are caring tooo much where the arrow is hitting?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## moog5050

From what I have read about your scores Mr Demmer, if you have advice I will listen. I assume you are suggesting that shooting should be process driven not result driven? This, "burnout" is just frustration coming from lack of results?


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## Demmer

Exactly Moog! All our goals should primarily process oriented. When I train, I grab my golf stroke counter. I give it a click for every well executed shot. By focusing on the shot (form) and not the score, l get less tp and higher scores as a result. When I want the arrow to hit the middle badly, I tend to over think and that ends with poorer quality shots and poorer scores. 
I experienced this kind of burnout when I have the eye on the wrong prise. The prise should be X amount of clicks and not I gotta hit the middle. My goal is at least fifty clicks. I hit 60 once. Rememeber, this doesn't mean a shot has to be a 10, 9, or even an 8. I click it on ever shot I would rate a 9 or ten on the quality scale. Case in point, I was going to hit a new personal best the other day with three ends left. I saw the score, and was like ok I can get this. I just need to average the same about of tens and I'm good. Well, I shot 1 in the last 9 arrows. I got score oriented and didn't stick to my form. I should have hit 8 or 9 tens if I kept the right mindset. 
If we keep the right focus, "burnout" doesn't happen nearly as often.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## poison arrow

I started to wonder if there is too much pressure to hit the center rings . I print a life size elk target cover that has the vitals lightly highlighted. I shot 1000 shots over the course of a couple of weeks. I am not that great a shot but, only 26 shots out of 1000 missed the vitals at 20 yds. I believe that is a 97.4 % kill rate. I wonder at times if we put too much pressure on ourselves. Go shoot , have fun, kill an animal.


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## moog5050

Interesting Demmer. So you click on those shots that feel well executed vs where they hit. I suspect they usually are yor better scoring shots too. You really have two totals running at the same time. But the one that matters most isn't the score.

I know there are times I hit a white but the shot didn't feel good and times a shot feels great but misses the white. I will be the first to admit scores matter to me, but I kinda feel like that is what drives my progress. When I want to work strictly on feel/form I move to blank bail. I will have to try your method. Kinda incorporates both at the same time.


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## moog5050

poison arrow said:


> I started to wonder if there is too much pressure to hit the center rings . I print a life size elk target cover that has the vitals lightly highlighted. I shot 1000 shots over the course of a couple of weeks. I am not that great a shot but, only 26 shots out of 1000 missed the vitals at 20 yds. I believe that is a 97.4 % kill rate. I wonder at times if we put too much pressure on ourselves. Go shoot , have fun, kill an animal.


I like this approach on some days too. No scores, just kill shots.


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## rsarns

John, great post about quality shots, and training. Today I fell victim to worrying about the score. I decided after an hour of practice to shoot a scored round (I did that yesterday but really didn't add it up till the end), today though I started to pay attention to the score, as I was heading to the 10th end (of 12 for Blueface), and the fact I had only dropped a couple of points snuck up on me. I now was more worried about missing, than I was focused on shot execution. I of course immediately shot a 4 with the next arrow. In Vegas I was at the last arrow in the 6th end (of 10) and it dawned on me I had not shot any arrows outside of a 9 or better,,,,, yep that arrow was my first 8. Another loss of focus on shot execution and worrying about score. I love the challenge of scoring well, or shooting against the best, but I need to remember to focus on what counts, the shot.


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## moog5050

nakedape said:


> Been shooting more than 4 months now,
> Shot 30 arrows last week, I think that is the best I have shot so far, hopefully it wasn't a fluke ;-)
> should have kept score....
> 
> btw, i do have a sight, no aperture using a 10/24 bolt,
> no clicker
> 
> View attachment 3809370


That's a great start. Keep it up.


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## steve morley

I do the same thing, for example on a Field round my ultimate goal is to click 112 times(I normally get somewhere around 80-90), If I clean miss the 80y but executed well I still click the counter, if I hit the spot at 30y but it was a crappy release I won't count it.

I always think of a saying from Lloyd Brown GB Oly Coach "The difference between the best and all the rest is execution"


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## granite14

Demmer said:


> Exactly Moog! All our goals should primarily process oriented. When I train, I grab my golf stroke counter. I give it a click for every well executed shot. By focusing on the shot (form) and not the score, l get less tp and higher scores as a result. When I want the arrow to hit the middle badly, I tend to over think and that ends with poorer quality shots and poorer scores.
> I experienced this kind of burnout when I have the eye on the wrong prise. The prise should be X amount of clicks and not I gotta hit the middle. My goal is at least fifty clicks. I hit 60 once. Rememeber, this doesn't mean a shot has to be a 10, 9, or even an 8. I click it on ever shot I would rate a 9 or ten on the quality scale. Case in point, I was going to hit a new personal best the other day with three ends left. I saw the score, and was like ok I can get this. I just need to average the same about of tens and I'm good. Well, I shot 1 in the last 9 arrows. I got score oriented and didn't stick to my form. I should have hit 8 or 9 tens if I kept the right mindset.
> If we keep the right focus, "burnout" doesn't happen nearly as often.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Its a great question, and have been thinking about it a lot.
So, follow up: you say our goals should be process oriented, but you click for a well executed shot...How do you know its a well executed shot to click it? entirely by feel? Is it the end of your process, or during, or the sum? or are you thinking about every step like a shot cycle.. if you did steps 1-7 well, you consider it well executed?

I don't think I'm overly concerned about score... it is frustrating to work hard and have static or declining scores (when they are benchmarked). Maybe I work on the wrong thing. 
Since Vegas I have worked on my anchor, deeper hook, straighter bow arm, expansion, release, breathing, all while not scoring. At Vegas, my scores weren't great, but outside of 2 ends where my head really did get in the way (after Robin Hood practice range)... I was happy that I had groups but they weren't all on yellow. My best days, my shots feel effortless, all subconscious, I don't know what is making it all work. Some days, that breaks down and one of these things go off, then I need to investigate my process again. If I think too much about all the process that doesn't work either for me.

Maybe this would all be easier if I took lessons, or if there was a local coach familiar with barebow. I think I lucked out with the talent I have to get where I am, but at this point, I've hit a wall, and not even sure what I should focus on to get to the next level. mentally and physically it takes its toll. too many arrows, working on keeping a float and control of my shot (not drive by..), along with the rest of the physical stuff. It would be great to make progress at the rate some people say here, but my progress is much slower. 
Anyway, taking 3 days off before the state blueface and I'll try to reset there on process again, and see if it comes together.


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## nakedape

thanks Steve and Moog,

yeah, for me, I am just focusing on my form right now, less on scoring.
learning what I can either from here, youtube, watching other good archers at the range, or listening in on coaches teaching their students.

might starting getting some lessons doing FITA. (shooting 3 under/ jaw anchor right now, it will be a big change for me)


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## steve morley

granite14 said:


> Its a great question, and have been thinking about it a lot.
> So, follow up: you say our goals should be process oriented, but you click for a well executed shot...How do you know its a well executed shot to click it?


When you make a bad release it's because your subconscious and conscious are in conflict i.e. you know the aim is slightly wrong but you try to continue with the shot, or BT isn't properly loaded but you continue anyway. You will feel it was well executed by how smoothly and confidently you executed.

I will click the counter if I abort the shot, I've identified an error in the shot process and stopped myself from making a less than perfect execution. I feel I should reward myself for that control. It's amazing the amount of people who cannot let down in a tourney pressure situation if the shot feels wrong, to me it's a great sign of experience/control within the Archer.

I sometimes have that feeling (and it's the best feeling in Archery) where I released and I know the arrow is going in the X before the arrow has even left the rest, my goal with my emphasis on the shot process is to have that feeling as frequently as possible.


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## granite14

thanks Steve! I guess I will get a clicker and start trying this. I think that feeling of a shot is what I keep trying to get back to as well


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## jogilvie69

I bought my first recurve a week before Christmas. 55# Bear Grizzly. Needless to say it was way to heavy to start out with and I was making very little progress. Lol. After reading a bunch on here and a lot of advice from Viper1 I figured I better get a lighter bow. I finally got the new bow last Friday. 21" Hoyt Excel riser with 32# Axiom+ long limbs. I shot my first 300 round at 20 yds Monday. I had a mark on the ground in front of the target and was using my arrow tip to aim. I shot a 257. I love the new bow! It shoots great and with the lighter weight I can actually pay attention to my form and release. Lol. Hopefully I can keep making progress. I'm pretty pumped right now!


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## equilibrium

jogilvie69 said:


> I bought my first recurve a week before Christmas. 55# Bear Grizzly. Needless to say it was way to heavy to start out with and I was making very little progress. Lol. After reading a bunch on here and a lot of advice from Viper1 I figured I better get a lighter bow. I finally got the new bow last Friday. 21" Hoyt Excel riser with 32# Axiom+ long limbs. I shot my first 300 round at 20 yds Monday. I had a mark on the ground in front of the target and was using my arrow tip to aim. I shot a 257. I love the new bow! It shoots great and with the lighter weight I can actually pay attention to my form and release. Lol. Hopefully I can keep making progress. I'm pretty pumped right now!


Welcome to the habit. Enjoy.........I know I do.


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## centershot

jogilvie69 said:


> I bought my first recurve a week before Christmas. 55# Bear Grizzly. Needless to say it was way to heavy to start out with and I was making very little progress. Lol. After reading a bunch on here and a lot of advice from Viper1 I figured I better get a lighter bow. I finally got the new bow last Friday. 21" Hoyt Excel riser with 32# Axiom+ long limbs. I shot my first 300 round at 20 yds Monday. I had a mark on the ground in front of the target and was using my arrow tip to aim. I shot a 257. I love the new bow! It shoots great and with the lighter weight I can actually pay attention to my form and release. Lol. Hopefully I can keep making progress. I'm pretty pumped right now!


Glad you figured it out sooner than later...........some guys never do get it. Enjoy the new bow (and habit)!


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## jogilvie69

Thanks for the encouragement guys. It is definitely addicting!


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## hammer08

John's advice about being process oriented is priceless. I had been struggling for a few days in practice, shooting below average for me. I was just really fighting to get the shot to go off. It's because I was pushing for score. Score had become most important and it was ruining my shot. 

So I went to the bale and worked on the shot. Aiming and pulling through the shot really strong. I've been absolutely on fire the past couple days and in my league. If I focus on the process the scores come. If I focus on the score it's fight to execute the shot properly.


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## steve morley

Awesome hole patterns Hammer :thumbs_up


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## J. Wesbrock

Grayson,

I agree. That advice of John’s is huge.


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## MGF

steve morley said:


> I do the same thing, for example on a Field round my ultimate goal is to click 112 times(I normally get somewhere around 80-90), If I clean miss the 80y but executed well I still click the counter, if I hit the spot at 30y but it was a crappy release I won't count it.
> 
> I always think of a saying from Lloyd Brown GB Oly Coach "The difference between the best and all the rest is execution"


Why would a well executed shot "miss"? 

I understand that you shouldn't be placing too much emphasis on aiming. I understand that there's no sense in giving any thought at all to any shot other than the one we're making. But, I don't understand what could give more reliable feedback about the quality of execution than where the arrows land.


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## steve morley

MGF said:


> Why would a well executed shot "miss"?


If it's a steep shot I maybe just get the Gap wrong (easy to do at 80y), a vane falls off during flight, damaged shaft......any number of reasons, things happen sometimes.






This was a tough 80y shot.


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## J. Wesbrock

MGF said:


> Why would a well executed shot "miss"?
> 
> I understand that you shouldn't be placing too much emphasis on aiming. I understand that there's no sense in giving any thought at all to any shot other than the one we're making. But, I don't understand what could give more reliable feedback about the quality of execution than where the arrows land.


I was fighting TP at our state indoor target championship. The second half of my 18m round was a 270. Now, that would earn a gold olympian AAP pin, but it was the most poorly executed 270 I've ever shot. I couldn't get to float, froze, collapsed and did a fair amount of drive by shooting. Out of 30 arrows on that half, none of them were shot correctly.

I would rather have a low score and good control that a high score and poor control. With good control the scores will eventually follow. With poor control, high scores will never last.


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## hammer08

J. Wesbrock said:


> I would rather have a low score and good control that a high score and poor control. With good control the scores will eventually follow. With poor control, high scores will never last.


So very true. Having control is essential to consistent shooting. 

270 is solid Jason. Was that with your barebow setup shot in the recurve class?


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## J. Wesbrock

Yeah, that was with my BB setup in the Recurve class.


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## granite14

really took the advice here to heart at our state tourney. I was focusing on the shot and not caring on the score. interestingly enough, I started slow/bad both days, but as I kept focusing on the shot, the scores did come and got better (1st halves on 240 pace, second halves on 260-270 pace). Usually I start out hot and fizzle down and both days it was the opposite. So thanks to John, Steve, Grayson, Jason for reiterating. I think I get it a little more now. I also had to stop thinking about too much process and really concentrate on that last pull through.

I even managed to get an official Robin Hood now, and the two arrows to the right were shot after, and I didn't want it to fall out, so my head was on the wrong thought, and it failed.


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## Demmer

There ya go Rob!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## ranchoarcher

Good job at the nationals John. Those were some impressive numbers you posted. If you don't mind me asking, what draw weight were you pulling? I was using a 40lb long bow pulling a little more than that and it got pretty heavy into the 2nd day.


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## hammer08

Nice shooting Rob! 

The bigger the tournament the more difficult it is to stay locked in and just worry about executing the shot, at least for me. This is my first year shooting in any kind of leagues and I'm just getting to the point where my league and local shoot scores are about the same as my practice scores. At my state FITA championship I was about 10 points lower than my overall average(if you converted it to a blue face score it would have only been 3 points lower than my average). I think the more time you spend on the line in competition the easier it will get to make good shots under pressure. That's what I'm hoping anyway!


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## steve morley

Having a frustrating time at the moment, focus on Form I shoot awesome groups 3pm in the 8/7 zone, if I focus on the float I can get groups in the 10/9 zone but very quickly start doing poor release or just freeze on the right of the spot. Go out on the Field range and drill the spot at 20y so it's all in my head, Indoors plays with my head big time.  

Shot Nationals Sunday, came 3rd, pretty happy considering what a tough couple of weeks I've had. I was 1 point behind after first round but made a shooting error and judge deducted points from me. Mentally I just never recovered from that error. 

I switched back to my outdoor 42# K7's, I think shooting the 36# over the last 2 months didn't do me any favors, 42# makes me work harder through the shot, shot well this morning on the 300 face, feels like too much going on in my head trying to consciously control too much of the shot process, need to make my shot sequence a little more Zen like.


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## ranchoarcher

I can relate to what you're saying there. Got hit with TP part way through day one and it got worse day two. Freezing under the target, over the target, but never on the dang spot! In the second half of day two I found that by drawing back all the way and not focusing on anything for a few seconds (not even looking at the target) made the mental static die down. 

Maybe it's just the repetition of indoor that gets to people, could be. Ended up the number two guy behind Smock who set a new record. That guy throws some mean wood. Shooting LB for this was a bit of a fluke. It's not my usual thing but it was an interesting experience shooting arrows that aren't straight, not round, and don't always go where you think they should.


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## steve morley

Did a little more shooting this afternoon, it feels like I'm not fully committing and I'm aiming too hard, and then end up consciously trying to control the expansion/release timing. 

Once I commit and start expanding I just have to trust that if the arrow drifts out the spot a little, just to have faith that it will drift back in on it's own and to just keep expanding till the shot just goes off on it's own i.e. focus only on expansion and let my subconscious decide when the sight picture is ideal. Once I settled into this concept I was consistently drilling the spot. I also went into expansion a lot quicker, as soon as I checked I was in the ball park with aim, anchor, string blur was good, it stops me over aiming and gets my float in the spot more relaxed and controlled.

Yesterday was feeling horrible releases because my conscious was trying to take over too much control. How many years have I been doing this sport :doh: Seems I have to remember *not* to think and just do.


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## J. Wesbrock

Great shooting, Rob. Now you need to get your Robbin Hood patch and pin from the NFAA.


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## Demmer

ranchoarcher said:


> Good job at the nationals John. Those were some impressive numbers you posted. If you don't mind me asking, what draw weight were you pulling? I was using a 40lb long bow pulling a little more than that and it got pretty heavy into the 2nd day.


Thanks! It went well. 
37# ish. Thinking about going back up to 39-40. Was having issues with hangups on release. I know a lot had to do with my head games, but maybe the weight will help some. ☺

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## nakedape

I was wondering which indoor target is more popular in the US, 
fita/vegas or blueface?

(I go to two local indoor range, one always use blueface, the other always fita)

shot my first fita 600 (or fita 18 or as our club calls it double vegas round)
it was my local club tournament, outdoor 20 yds.

1st round, 260
2nd round, 229


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## hammer08

The blueface target is likely more popular in the US. 

260 for your first FITA half is great btw.


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## Demmer

I couldn't tell ya which one is more popular. I see a lot of 450 round legues on the fita all over the states. We are very heavy fita target where I'm from. 

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## Rael84

I just got started shooting at the beginning of this year and jumped into a local league with both feet. Three weeks in my scores are 211, 200, and 232. This is with a Samick Sage 40#.


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## ranchoarcher

Here it's pretty much all 450 rounds. Did some make up rounds for league getting back to shooting barebow recurve versus longbow and I think the break did me some good. Shot a 399 yesterday and 392 today. Best past scores were in the 380 ranges. Learned some things about bow arm stability shooting an unforgiving stick and woodies. Still itching to break into 400 territory but so close now I can smell it.


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## nakedape

good shooting Rancho!

so 9 avg is a 405, 

ur shooting wooden arrows?!
bow?



hammer08 said:


> 260 for your first FITA half is great btw.


thx hammer! hopefully it will be a consistent 260 in the future.


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## ranchoarcher

If I could post scores like that slinging lumber I'd be God, lol. For a few weeks I practiced with a longbow and woodies for the USA nationals. Got a few and I wanted to see what I could do with them. Did that shoot this past weekend and league was still going on so I broke out the tiburon and carbons. Much to my surprise I felt more in control of the shot. I think using something as light as a longbow where there is practically no forgiveness made me more aware of form. 

My long bow scores aren't spectacular by any stretch. 6.9 something is what I finished with but, (here come the excuses  ), I didn't practice for very long and this was my first real tournament with woodies. Be the only shooter out of hundreds standing on the line with wood arrows and a longbow in an Olympic/Compound dominated arena. That will raise the stress level a little bit. It was fun though. Got to shoot with some great people and walked out feeling pretty good even though the score wasn't what I expected. It was a good experience and I'd do it again if given the chance. Next year will probably be Oly recurve or maybe barebow. We'll see which way the winds shift.


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## centershot

We shoot 450 Vegas rounds from October to February (until the Vegas shoot) then switch over to the NFAA face. I shot the first 10 week league (before Christmas) with my recurve and averaged in the mid 370's - a high of 382 and low of 368. Basically plus/minus 10 from average. I felt that was pretty consistent over 10 weeks. The second 10 week league I have been shooting with my Compound Hunting bow BHFS. Scores with that have been averaging 442/450 and 300 50X NFAA. It has been a fun change up and proves to me that a well executed, controlled shot is universal in archery.


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## steve morley

After a lot of frustration with my Indoor rounds I decided to switch back to my 42# outdoor limbs in prep for the Field/3D season, shot league shoot on Sunday and didn't shoot any worse than I did with the lighter limbs, I still need time to build up to the weight but I feel it gets better/easier every day.

I figured my main issue is over aiming and peeking at the arrow, done some work this week to start trusting my aim and BT and release is a lot smoother now. I experimented today as I forgot I have these 2315 X7's 4" helical and 200g points from my Bowhunter Rec Indoor rounds, shot my second highest practice score this season of 290 so I'm going to stick with these arrows for my next indoor tourney. It's like launching bricks at the target but they soak up my release errors really well, I shot two 23's the rest was 24/25's so pretty happy.


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## jogilvie69

Congrats! That's awesome shooting!


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## Wobbley

Wow, yeah. 290 is a very good score.

Shot my personal best in practice the other day of 255. I have eliminated some, but not all, of the 2 point and 3 point arrows.


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## centershot

Great shooting Steve. 255 is very good also Wobbley. Get rid of those 2's and 3's and your score will jump right up.


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## rsarns

steve morley said:


> After a lot of frustration with my Indoor rounds I decided to switch back to my 42# outdoor limbs in prep for the Field/3D season, shot league shoot on Sunday and didn't shoot any worse than I did with the lighter limbs, I still need time to build up to the weight but I feel it gets better/easier every day.
> 
> I figured my main issue is over aiming and peeking at the arrow, done some work this week to start trusting my aim and BT and release is a lot smoother now. I experimented today as I forgot I have these 2315 X7's 4" helical and 200g points from my Bowhunter Rec Indoor rounds, shot my second highest practice score this season of 290 so I'm going to stick with these arrows for my next indoor tourney. It's like launching bricks at the target but they soak up my release errors really well, I shot two 23's the rest was 24/25's so pretty happy.


Great shooting Steve. I went back to the recurve after a few weeks of concentrating on indoors with the finger compound in BB and BH for our State. Yesterday was frustrating with the recurve shot a 281 but there was a lot of issues. Have NFAA sectionals this weekend so only a few days to get it together.


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## steve morley

Thanks guys it was a confidence boosting round after a lot of frustrations. I think I might have shot more but I was getting tired, I had already been round the Field course.

Those fat X7 arrows I totally blew the X out of the spot after around 45 arrows, it felt very good.


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## FLlongshot

I just shot my first real indoor this past weekend in Florida at the state/se sectional indoor. Interesting shooting with artificial lights and a 24" lane. Managed 238-244 with my longbow and woodies. I was pretty happy with that.


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## hammer08

FLlongshot said:


> I just shot my first real indoor this past weekend in Florida at the state/se sectional indoor. Interesting shooting with artificial lights and a 24" lane. Managed 238-244 with my longbow and woodies. I was pretty happy with that.


Really solid scores with the longbow and wood arrows!


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## FLlongshot

Thanks! I was hoping to shoot my causal average of 252. Had a little mishap early on that got in my head lol. Upper targets were about eye high which didn't help either. Im working on it!


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## rsarns

The switch back to recurve after concentrating on the compound has really set me back. Today in practice I ended up dropping draw weight to 39#'s OTF's, and it helped quite a bit. I didn't feel over bowed at my usual indoor poundage but seemed to tire by the end of practice...so.... It helped immensely, had to retune a bit and drop down the tip weight to 250 gr tips on the 2315's. So after semi getting it figured out and tune decent shot a round for score. I'll just say it was a low 280 but it wasn't pretty still. Threw in a pair of 22's near the end and a break down in form.. Might have to break out the 34# limbs and dial them in at around 36 or so... Hard to believe that shooting the 51# compound (fingers) for a few weeks and not shooting the recurve would result in struggling with the draw weight so much. A humbling experience. 

I grabbed the longbow this evening (40#'s OTF's) and was fine for about 35 arrows or so. So need to build those muscles back up...


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## steve morley

FLlongshot said:


> Thanks! I was hoping to shoot my causal average of 252. Had a little mishap early on that got in my head lol. Upper targets were about eye high which didn't help either. Im working on it!


FLlongshot that is a great score for Longbow, specially if shot under IFAA rules, woodies and split finger.

The German that was consistently winning IFAA world Indoors with Longbow was shooting consistently in the mid to low 250's, so with that score you should easily place in the medals in that tourney. 

I did see one of our Latvian guys shoot a 265 in competition a couple of years ago, that is an awesome LB score, I think I managed that maybe once in practice with mine but never above 250 in competition.


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## FLlongshot

Thanks Steve. I shoot wood 3 under as there isn't a lot of IFAA available over here. I shoot mid-high 250's in practice most of the time with a high of 262. Would like to see competition scores north of 260. Like I said, this was my first formal tournament indoors with tight lanes etc. Loading arrows is a pita with a body 12" in front and behind lol! I hadn't been using a finger sling lately as I've been shooting a lot of 3d and wouldn't you know it, second shot for score the bow jumps out of my hand and his the floor. Scored an X with that arrow but was overly conscious of my grip for every shot after. That'll never happen again.


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## Duncsquatch

228 with my hunting recurve at 63 lbs. 235 with my target bow at 39 lbs


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## centershot

Good shooting, that is a lot of arrows with a 63# recurve! Were you able to shoot all 60 of those shots in total control or did the draw weight start to win out towards the end?


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## rsarns

Broke the 290 barrier today, was extremely excited. I started off great 25 4X, and although I only had 3 ends of 25's my worst was a 24....  I went to the light limbs (34# Ult Pro's) and had them set to 39#'s on the fingers at my DL. Its been a struggle this week, but today just walked in set the timer, and shot 2 practice ends, then shot my round like it was an official scoring round timing wise. Shot my 5 arrows, took 1 minute, set the clock for 4 minutes, (as if the other line was shooting) then scored my arrows. Then proceeded to my next end.. I think my struggles in practice coming back from shooting the compound for a couple of weeks was because of increased holding weight and just not taking time to recover between ends. I have a relatively fast tempo anyway and was not doing what I normally do in practice, and that is shooting in the same tempo as an indoor tournament. I have no delusions that I can carry that score over to a tourney, but it sure would be nice to do it at the sectionals this weekend.. My best in a tourney shooting Trad is a 283


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## dtirell

Nice shooting Ren (and good luck breaking 290 this weekend). I am still trying to break the 270 barrier but it is nice to be reminded of what is possible.


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## steve morley

Awesome score rsarns.

I think it's taken me about 3 weeks to dial back into the Vanquish and the weight of the 42# K7's. At least it's allowed me to once again appreciate just how nice this setup is.


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## Demmer

WOAH! Who's that guy! Shooting ult pros too. 😆😆😆

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## rsarns

Demmer said:


> WOAH! Who's that guy! Shooting ult pros too. &#55357;&#56838;&#55357;&#56838;&#55357;&#56838;
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Don't fret... he only shows up once or twice a year...LOL Same guy shot a 300 53X this past week... (shooting my FS rig.. LOL)


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## ttop

Shot a personal best yesterday. It was an informal tourney, NFAA 300 on the blue face.
I shot a 260. It was a 12 point jump for me. It's no where near the top shooters, but it 
made me feel good. Just wanted to share. Its my third personal best in the last 2 months.
I guess my new release style is working.


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## hammer08

ttop said:


> Shot a personal best yesterday. It was an informal tourney, NFAA 300 on the blue face.
> I shot a 260. It was a 12 point jump for me. It's no where near the top shooters, but it
> made me feel good. Just wanted to share. Its my third personal best in the last 2 months.
> I guess my new release style is working.


Nice shooting! No one here started shooting 290, it's a process that takes a lot of work. Keep it up and you can get there.


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## rsarns

hammer08 said:


> Nice shooting! No one here started shooting 290, it's a process that takes a lot of work. Keep it up and you can get there.


What Hammer said. If you go back through the beginnings of this thread you will see the scores from a while ago, and you can see the progress most have made over that time frame. I can remember the first time I broke 200, it hasn't been that long ago. 5 years ago I didn't think scores that we are seeing today could be shot with a recurve, 250-260's were winning the Nationals. I think everyone is pushing each other to do better and the scores we are seeing today are because of that. I mean really a 299 in sectionals last year, only a superhero could shoot that score. 

If you want to get better you get a well tuned and setup bow/arrow combo that puts you point on at 20 yards (or 21 yards for me) and practice. Then go to some of the shoots were Dewayne or John are shooting and push yourself. Keep shooting and a 260 that quickly is great!


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## centershot

Very nice Ren, Trad legal? or Barebow?


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## rsarns

centershot said:


> Very nice Ren, Trad legal? or Barebow?


Trad legal, I had a stab on....


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## hammer08

The last few weeks in my two leagues have been going pretty well. Mostly strong outings where I'm just trying to shoot good shots and not worry about score. That has led to strong shootin and some personal bests in competition recently. 295 29x NFAA and a 564 14x FITA. Looking forward to the sectionals this weekend and US Nationals next weekend. If I can keep my head in check I think I'll be just fine.

View attachment 3915417


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## Demmer

And the student becomes the master

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## hammer08

One photo didn't come through for whatever reason









I'm the guy with the blue Gillo. Paul Vogel and Jen Stoner are on either side of me. Both great shooters who shoot into the 280's and can beat me if I don't have a good day. Keeps me on my toes.


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## granite14

Haha, not even sure how to congratulate you when you shoot and don't care about scores... Nice mental toughness, keep it up 

those are awesome scores though. 
I know I'm over simplifying "not care" during vs afterward.


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## steve morley

Shot second best score today (outside in snow with kids behind me arguing and asking me questions) a 291, and with a 290 only a few days ago. 292 was my best at start of Indoor season in Nov. 

Still lots of work to do to get more confidence (it was only a practice round), I'm starting to trust my shot, I'm gradually letting go of all the conscious Form control that was holding me back and adding tension into my shot . I just run my shot sequence and wait for that relaxed float in the spot, if it doesn't happen or I start to tense up, I just let down and start over, it's one thing I still need to work on but it feels like I'm progressing in the right direction.


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## Longbowfanatic

Viper,

Just ordered your book along with Jay Kidwell's book. I'm looking forward to reading them. I'm having fun reading this thread. I shoot at my range (Plug & Pellet) weekly, but haven't shot a 300 indoor barebow round yet. I'll give it a go and post up the results.

Dennis


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## rossing6

Love to see you guys shooting and having fun. Recently started shooting recurve to hang out with my wife and oldest daughter at trad league night about a year ago. I'm a long time compound freestyle shooter, love all forms of archery, but this recurve thing has bitten me pretty hard as the leagues and people are fun. Try those if you can as well. I just started trying blueface indoors, and have had a great time. My form isn't the best, but I work hard on consistency and shot a 259 first try practicing with my wife, she shoots 200-220 average now. Then I shot a 276 also practice, shot a 277 on the multicolor face (total luck that day) then dropped back down to a 248 blue face, and finally hooked up with a coach as the wife and I decided to get dialed in and see what we can do with recurves. Coach Steve Caufman straightened out our form basics in raising and drawing and alignment the first lesson. We worked hard on that for a few weeks, and then with that comes the consistency. I hit a 288 and another 276 the next day. Very happy with how it is going. I'm doing nothing but working on the execution of the release just like with a compound and hinge release. Shot a 150 17x for the first half of a blueface warming up for the NW sectionals. So happy with that. Tournament time, shot lousy, 248 and 243 for a 491 15x...not great, but I'll take it and keep working at it. Highly suggest getting a reputable coach to help you get going early rather than fighting it and then having to unlearn bad habits. For indoors I shoot a 35# Bear Grizzly shooting off the shelf plain old trad bow, drawing 27.25" with .500 spine Easton Axis Trad shafts, 200 grains up front (brass 75 grain insert with 125 point) 4-4" shield feathers and pin nocks as I hit a lot of robin hoods practicing at 20 yds and can't afford that. The Gold Tip Kinetic pins work perfectly. Weight tubes (from 3-rivers) help dial your mass weight for point on aiming if not shooting instinctive. I run either 505 grain w/out tubes or 640 with tubes which puts me perfectly point on at 20 yds. The people we shoot with are great and keep it fun for us. Having a great time. My wife loves it so much she is switching from her compound for elk hunting to recurve this year. Keep up shooting and improving and enjoy seeing the improvements. I'm looking forward to getting my average scores up around 280 all the time (if that is possible) and see my tournament scores come up some just with consistency and experience. This recurve thing is kind of fun...if you are in the Washington area, Coach Steve Caufman is near Seattle area and is a great coach for recurve, longbow, compound or Oly recurve...great guy and keeps it fun, but really knows his stuff.


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## granite14

rossing6 said:


> Love to see you guys shooting and having fun. Recently started shooting recurve to hang out with my wife and oldest daughter at trad league night about a year ago. I'm a long time compound freestyle shooter, love all forms of archery, but this recurve thing has bitten me pretty hard as the leagues and people are fun. Try those if you can as well. I just started trying blueface indoors, and have had a great time. My form isn't the best, but I work hard on consistency and shot a 259 first try practicing with my wife, she shoots 200-220 average now. Then I shot a 276 also practice, shot a 277 on the multicolor face (total luck that day) then dropped back down to a 248 blue face, and finally hooked up with a coach as the wife and I decided to get dialed in and see what we can do with recurves. Coach Steve Caufman straightened out our form basics in raising and drawing and alignment the first lesson. We worked hard on that for a few weeks, and then with that comes the consistency. I hit a 288 and another 276 the next day. Very happy with how it is going. I'm doing nothing but working on the execution of the release just like with a compound and hinge release. Shot a 150 17x for the first half of a blueface warming up for the NW sectionals. So happy with that. Tournament time, shot lousy, 248 and 243 for a 491 15x...not great, but I'll take it and keep working at it. Highly suggest getting a reputable coach to help you get going early rather than fighting it and then having to unlearn bad habits. For indoors I shoot a 35# Bear Grizzly shooting off the shelf plain old trad bow, drawing 27.25" with .500 spine Easton Axis Trad shafts, 200 grains up front (brass 75 grain insert with 125 point) 4-4" shield feathers and pin nocks as I hit a lot of robin hoods practicing at 20 yds and can't afford that. The Gold Tip Kinetic pins work perfectly. Weight tubes (from 3-rivers) help dial your mass weight for point on aiming if not shooting instinctive. I run either 505 grain w/out tubes or 640 with tubes which puts me perfectly point on at 20 yds. The people we shoot with are great and keep it fun for us. Having a great time. My wife loves it so much she is switching from her compound for elk hunting to recurve this year. Keep up shooting and improving and enjoy seeing the improvements. I'm looking forward to getting my average scores up around 280 all the time (if that is possible) and see my tournament scores come up some just with consistency and experience. This recurve thing is kind of fun...if you are in the Washington area, Coach Steve Caufman is near Seattle area and is a great coach for recurve, longbow, compound or Oly recurve...great guy and keeps it fun, but really knows his stuff.


Put 2+2 together from the scores posted. I saw you shoot, I thought you looked really good. I was a few lanes over on Saturday string walking on a grey Gillo, but my standing room was in the middle. Too many stabilizers to trip over on the side there. I remember walking back from my target once thinking you had peppered that white pretty good for shooting off the shelf. I hope to get up and take some lessons from Steve soon.


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## theskyiscrying

I've been shooting about 2.5 months total and doing it Trad. At the club tonight, shooting league, Blueface 600 (10,8,5,3,1) I scored a 440. If you scored it on a 300 scale (5,4,3,2,1) it was a 230, best ever by 27 pts. 
I've been working on back tension and release and it's starting to pay off . Thanks to Bryce at Tampa Archery, for helping me on my fundamentals.


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## Wobbley

Shot a personal best 264 on the NFAA face in a practice session. Almost ten point jump over previous PB last week. I really hope I can repeat or keep some of that gain in my next practice session.

No two point arrows, still some three point arrows. I let down a few more times on a bad anchor.


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## J. Wesbrock

Awesome shooting, Grayson. Keep it up!


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## centershot

There is some excellent shooting going on here! Excellent to the point of record breaking. 

To the new guys: don't expect to be shooting scores like this without a lot of effort, even then many of these guys are the best in the world. I only say that so that if you shoot a 200 or so and feel like you are struggling, don't sweat it - everyone has been there. Take a look back at the first few pages of this thread and you will see many (myself included) working hard to shoot a 200. Don't be discouraged - but also look at what is really possible when this hobby is taken seriously.


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## Longbowfanatic

Good point, Centershot! I shot my first 300 round the other day. I began the first two end with a 76 & 75, then I fell apart on the final leg and shot a 60. Final score was 211. I have some work to do. I have been amazed at some of the world class shooters here. WOW!


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## hammer08

Thanks Rob and Jason. 

I carried over the same mindset to the NFAA sectionals this weekend. Didn't shoot great for me. 282 with a complete miss the first day and then a 288 the second day. I shot solid shots both days, minus the miss that went about 3 feet right, but I had too many "just outs". Should have used 23 diameter arrows and a stabilizer haha. 288 is on the lower end of my average and 282 is tied for the lowest score I've shot all year. Still, not a bad weekend though. 

Shot tonight at my local range and had a terrible session. Everything was to the right and I couldn't figure out why. I ended up calling it quits and will try to figure it out tomorrow. Hopefully it comes back before Nationals this weekend!


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## rembrandt

I shot the NFAA target today with the Bear Polar bow and I did about what I figured I'd do and I shot a 216.....not pretty but I have not shot that target in 6 or 8 months....It will get better!


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## steve morley

centershot said:


> There is some excellent shooting going on here! Excellent to the point of record breaking.
> 
> To the new guys: don't expect to be shooting scores like this without a lot of effort, even then many of these guys are the best in the world. I only say that so that if you shoot a 200 or so and feel like you are struggling, don't sweat it - everyone has been there. Take a look back at the first few pages of this thread and you will see many (myself included) working hard to shoot a 200. Don't be discouraged - but also look at what is really possible when this hobby is taken seriously.


100% agree, I had been shooting 16 years before I shot my first Indoor round, I was humbled. 

It took maybe 3-4 years before I got to a level I was happy with, then I saw John's and Dewayne's scores a couple of years ago and my good enough wasn't really. It's inspiring to see what these guys can score under tourney pressure, I'm still not at that tourney confidence level but I've shot some nice practice scores so I know it will come in good time.


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## Wobbley

It has taken me 25 pages of this thread to gain 63 points. So everyone should post here alot, because I need this thread to gain 14.2 more pages so I can shoot a 300.

There may be some other factors though.


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## theskyiscrying

Wobbley said:


> It has taken me 25 pages of this thread to gain 63 points. So everyone should post here alot, because I need this thread to gain 14.2 more pages so I can shoot a 300.
> 
> There may be some other factors though.


Awesome....


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## RLEE77

Good evening all I am new to the sight and just getting back to shooting after 35 years off. Started this Jan. with 45# bear Montana shooting A league.We wer using the multi colored 
target then changed to the 300 blue face. I was using the single face. Only 2 of us are shooting trad.We are now shooting A MAA 420 target. there is A tournament coming up in April 
and I'M thinking of getting in it. I am wondering about the target face in tournement shooting. Most use the 5 spot so would everyone use that or can you choose which face to use?
I can't shoot that well started at 97 points on multi colored face and shot 252 today on the MAA 420 face. Improving but not fantastic. Now shoot A 40 # Samick Verna with 1916 alum shafts.thanks for any answers.

Rich


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## Wobbley

I have only been to a couple of tournaments. But the ones I have been to you could use either the single spot or multiple spot face.

But once you started with one type of face you had to finish with the same type of face. No switching to the other target style in the middle.

That said, the people running the tournament you are going to are in charge of what happens. If you post the date, place and event somebody here may (probably will) know the specifics.


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## centershot

RLEE77 said:


> Good evening all I am new to the sight and just getting back to shooting after 35 years off. Started this Jan. with 45# bear Montana shooting A league.We wer using the multi colored
> target then changed to the 300 blue face. I was using the single face. Only 2 of us are shooting trad.We are now shooting A MAA 420 target. there is A tournament coming up in April
> and I'M thinking of getting in it. I am wondering about the target face in tournement shooting. Most use the 5 spot so would everyone use that or can you choose which face to use?
> I can't shoot that well started at 97 points on multi colored face and shot 252 today on the MAA 420 face. Improving but not fantastic. Now shoot A 40 # Samick Verna with 1916 alum shafts.thanks for any answers.
> 
> Rich


I still manage to stick a couple in the 3 ring each round, so I like the single spot. While the 3's are usually mistakes, they still add up much faster than 0's!


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## RLEE77

Thanks Wobbly the shoot is A Straits Field Association on April 9 the host club is Northwoods Archery Club in Grayling,Mi.
They will be using the MAA 420 blue face target.I enjoy the indoor shooting and it's all we can do now as there is still A fair amount of snow.
Hopefully snow will be gone soon, weather has been warming and rainy.again thanks


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## RLEE77

Posted earlier but didn't show up here so the tournament is thru the Straits Field Association and is 
hosted by Northwoods Archery Club in Grayling, Mi on April 9.Thanks for the help


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## FLlongshot

Rushed out to my backyard range today after work to see if I could squeeze a full round in before dark. Managed a 272 with three 3's. Had a couple early 21 ends that were tough to get back. Not a pb with the recurve but solid nonetheless. Not bad for a SF Flame "beginner" riser with Sage limbs and a springy rest LOL! I think with some dedicated training I can do mid-high 280's with this little rig.


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## jogilvie69

I'm getting notifications that there are new post in this thread but they aren't showing up. Anyone else having trouble or is it just me?


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## Arrowwood

Yes, the forum's acting up lately.


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## FLlongshot

I made a few adjustments to my woodies and longbow. Shot a pb 262 this afternoon.


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## jogilvie69

I've been shooting a recurve for 3 months now. I've shot a lot of rounds with an aiming marker but never shot a full round instinctively. After some coaching and a bunch of practice I finally felt good enough to to score a round. I shot a 247. It's not a 270 or 280 like some of you guys are shooting but I'm pretty happy with it! &#55357;&#56832;


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## centershot

247 is very solid shooting. Congrats.


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## jogilvie69

Center

Thanks. It's kind of fun seeing groups instead of spraying arrows everywhere. Lol


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## centershot

Darn right it is. Shooting a target face on a standardized round give you a bench mark for your accuracy. Pretty hard to do stumpin', hunting or shooting 3D's.......funny thing, when you spend some time shooting targets - stumpin', hunting and 3D's become a lot easier. Sure are a lot of guy that have a hard time figuring that part out!


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## rembrandt

Switched back to my SF ILF bow today and shot a 230 which I was happy with because I saw some improvement in my form......I also put some UUKHA 35lb limbs on my bow and they are sweet.....they feel like 30 lb limbs.....I'm gonna shoot that bow now for a while and see If I can work on my form and get some consistancy which I felt some today.....I had way too many 3s however and they need to go......

Dave


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## RLEE77

Finished up the league last nite. Had A PB of 229 an the MAA 420 target. Slightly larger Diameter than blue face and X is worth 7. Changed alot things since starting the league in Jan. 
Started with 45# Bear Montana and in the last 3 weeks changed to A Samick Verna @40# changed to A tab with 3 under and started gap shooting. Scores have been going up since the changes.Will try my first tournament this weekend. Hope to get out on 3d soon but we just got 8 more inches of snow this weekend, it should be gone in A week or 2.


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## FLlongshot

Ahhhh! Frustrating! Shot a round in the yard today, 278, one point short of my pb. Dropped only one 3, in the last end...grrrr. The points certainly don't come easy at this level. Really makes me respect Demmer, DeWayne and the like. Those guys are like cast iron shooting machines.


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## steve morley

I stopped shooting the Indoor rounds around 5 weeks ago, I got outside into the Field courses even with the subzero temps and snow. 

It seems the more I shoot indoors the more it eats away at my Form/score. After my poor shooting at WA Nationals (18m) I quit practicing Indoor rounds, two weeks later we had IFAA Indoor Nationals which I won with 270/274, it was still low compared to some of my practice scores earlier in the season but the struggles I had 3 weeks previous I was pretty happy with those scores. so it seems the less I shoot Indoors the better I am lol 

Drives me even more crazy when I see myself consistently in the forest putting all 4 arrows in the spot at 15, 20 and 25 yards on a Field face. :embara:


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## ranchoarcher

It eats at your sanity is more like it  Can you make it to 60 arrows without needing aspirin. I honestly believe the best indoor shooters are probably assembly line workers.


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## steve morley

ranchoarcher said:


> I honestly believe the best indoor shooters are probably assembly line workers.


I can relate to that, 25 years ago I was out of work and took a 2 week temp job on a production line putting syringes together, after a week of that, poking red hot needles in my eyes would have been less painful, if I had to do that job full time I bet I would have been sticking those syringe needles in my eyes within a couple of months lol 

I think every School kid should have a weeks job experience doing similar work, I bet they study harder when they get back to School lol

I think for next indoor season I will just focus on Indoor blank bale and if I can suffer the cold maybe some Field rounds, I'll just shoot scored Indoor practice rounds no more than a couple of times a month, see how that works out. The other mistake was dropping draw weight, it didn't help one bit.


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## ranchoarcher

I felt your pain. About 20 some years back when I had nothing to my name I had to take a similar job. I lasted one day. Seeing the people who've been there a while they looked blank and numb. I took a job selling cars right after. That didn't last because I didn't have the lack of character it requires to be a salesperson,  I seem most at home on NFAA rounds or 3D. Even the legit fita stuff seems tedious. Makes me wonder if switching to OR was a good idea. That many arrows at the same target on flat ground plus you have to dress civilized. They don't allow cammo. How many arrows does it take to demonstrate you can hit it and what the heck is wrong with cammo?, lol.


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## RLEE77

Well I shot my first tournament yesterday.We shot the MAA 420 target. slightly larger than the 300 Blue Face.
Got A new personal best of 243 Very happy with the score and had A good time only about 24 shooters there.
All but 2 of us had wheelson bows. will have to keep up the practice on blue face target, and also start on 3D
when we get them setup. still lots of snow here,hope it warms in the next week and melts then we can setup 
3D.


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## Arrowwood

bump for centershot


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## centershot

Thanks for the bump, I don't know what is going on with the limited threads? Anyhow wanted to report in and get this thing cooking again. 

Last night after a fairly long (recurve) layoff I got the Dorado out, put the 30# limbs on it and set out to shoot a 300 round and see where my shooting is at. I should add that I was shooting some GT 600 ultralights (30", 4) 3" Feathers w/ 125gr points). Started off pretty slow with an 84, picked up nice in the second end (shot 2) 25's) ended up with a 94 there then finished out with an 86. Could feel the fatigue of 60 arrow starting to kick in. I did start off the night shooting my 40# limbs for a while then made the swap. I can tell I am out of shape and have work to do but putting together back to back 25's felt pretty nice and was confidence inspiring.


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## FLlongshot

I've been shooting 3d lately but am beginning to test new arrow setups for next season. I'm playing around with gapping seriously for the first time. I've always been a point and shoot archer at any distance that puts my point below the belly of a typical 3d deer. I've managed to maintain a 270 average recurve and 251 longbow/woodies but would like to get into seriously competitive territory so we'll see. It's a work in progress. I'm trying longer, heavier, slower and I'll let the white spot on the blue spot be the judge lol. I also dropped my finger sling for now, it just feels better but again, I'll let the scores dictate my path. Will update...


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## jogilvie69

I have been shooting mostly 3D lately also. I hadn't shot the blue face target in a while so a little over a week ago I shot a 300 round just to see where I was. I shot a 250. My personal best.


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## davidflorida

I've been away for a bit but got back at the 300 round , shot a 245 my pb with my sage and 45 pound limbs. 250 here we come .


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## centershot

I sure doesn't hurt to mix in a 300 round no matter what other season is going on - 3D or Hunting. You will know pretty quickly if your on your game or need a little fixing.


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## FLlongshot

Well, the finger sling is back lol! It's looking like my fatboys are going to make a good showing. Shot two games before dark on Saturday, 83 then after a rest adjustment 91. Still tuning...


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## spookinelk

Shot a full round for the first time in about a month and broke 245 without stringwalking for the first time ever with a 247, would have broke 250 but had a 0 in the second round. I raised my anchor point last month so I could compete in 3d tournaments locally without stringwalking, seems to be working, getting a lot more 5's than 3's. my goal is consistent 250's by the end of the summer. I'm shooting my 21" excel with 53# TT BM longs. I really admire you guys that are shooting in the 270's you gotta be dedicated to score like that consistently!


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## jogilvie69

It's been 4 weeks since I shot a round so I figured I would shoot one this evening. Shot a 252. My best by 2 points. I've been averaging about 10 shots per round outside the 4 ring. I'm slowly improving. I still need to work on getting rid of those fliers.


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## FLlongshot

The Fatboys are looking reaaaal good. I'm working on 3d mostly now but since I got my rig tuned wanted to establish some sort of benchmark. I decided that after working on different ranges and angles I would shoot a game a day at the blue spot. So three consecutive days went thus...93, 95, 96. One of these days soon I'll see if I can string 3 together in one round. Lol, I almost can't wait for 3D to be over for the summer.


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## k222

Got a new riser Thursday. After tuning it and getting a feel for it, I shot 12 ends. 235. Not PB but not far off.

220 going into 12th end. Had 245 on my mind, but then put 1st into the 1 ring at 12 o-clock (dropped my elbow) and 2nd into the 1 ring at 5 o-clock (lost concentration). Had to shake it off, relax and refocus. Put last 3 arrows in 4-4-5.


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## jdslyr

Some pretty good shooters on here. I just picked up a used 55# dale dye TD recurve a couple months ago for hunting. Shot the MMA blue face three weeks in a row. 238, 241, 242 PB. I was shooting low 230s with my 45# longbow and recurve. So, looks like the DD is a keeper.


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## grantmac

How does the MMA round compare to NFAA?


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## RLEE77

The enter "X" is scored as 7 then next is 5,4,3,2,1. If you touch the line that divides the 7 and 5 rings it is scored as 6 . total possible is 420 . It is shot in 12 ends of 5 arrows per end.
The scoring rings are A bit larger than the NFAA blue face target.At least that is how it is scored where I shoot.


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## jdslyr

Mma


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## nakedape

Been getting some coaching shooting an oly bow, so shooting the vegas face mostly.
But my friends has some blueface targets today, so we all shot the nfaa 300.

Shot a 278 today, pretty happy with that!


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## centershot

grantmac said:


> How does the MMA round compare to NFAA?


What is the point of the MMA round? Same target, scored easier - is it just to make you feel good or is there some other games that go along with it? Scoring the X as 7 my personal best would be 334/420. I suppose that does sound better than 284 25X


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## RLEE77

Don't know why they had to make up A new target. Just because they could I guess. some of us that shoot in winter league here prefer 
the NFAA face. I don't shoot either one very well yet so the smaller face helps me focus on center better.


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## LuisLeon

Shot a personal best of 241/3x. SF plus 25" riser 35 lb medium limbs, short stabilizer, no sights.


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## FLlongshot

I finally got around to shooting a full round. No warm up, just 60 arrows. Shooting my Victor riser, 40# journey limbs(46# at my 30.75 draw), 24oz of stacked weight in the stab hole launching full length Fatboys with 120gr Tophats.


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## FLlongshot




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## FLlongshot

Ok, I got attaching photos figured out lol! That's 276 15x. The 3's annoy me, never shot a round without at least one 3.


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## OCTradMan

1st attempt at the 20 yard.. 157 !


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## grantmac

FLlongshot said:


> View attachment 4501842


That is a very nice target!


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## FLlongshot

Thanks. Not quite a pb but still very nice.


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## mrjeffro

FINALLY broke 270 !!

With my hunting bow I average 250 and with my indoor bow, Spig BB w/ BF extreme limbs and springy rest my average is low 260's. I don't really spend a lot of time with the Spig as I really enjoy shooting my hunting bow. This afternoon I took out the BB and shot a 279 !!! The two 3's were mental farts that I wish I could have back


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## Demmer

Way to go jeffro!!!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## mrjeffro

Thanks John. It's been a long 5 year trip to break 270. Heck, 3 years ago I thought 240 was unreachable  

Now the big test.....have to shoot tomorrow to make sure this wasn't just a flash in the pan


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## FLlongshot

Jeffro, I was the same way. I worked for a long time to break 250, then longer to average 250. One day a couple of years ago, I took a Samick Sage that I had gotten for my teenage son and shot a 279. I was flabbergasted and now it's taken 18 months to work up a 271 average. The higher you go the harder it is to get those points but when I see what guys do at Nationals and Vegas I think, I could do that. I don't know if I'll get there but it's worth a shot.


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## LuisLeon

Mr. Jeffro and FlLongshot that is some awesome shooting... Can you gentlemen elaborate on your shooting style. Three under, split finger, etc? I dream of the day I shoot no 3s.


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## mrjeffro

LuisLeon said:


> Mr. Jeffro and FlLongshot that is some awesome shooting... Can you gentlemen elaborate on your shooting style. Three under, split finger, etc? I dream of the day I shoot no 3s.


I dream of the days I shoot no 3's too.  

With my light weight indoor bow, 40# @32" , I shoot 3 under and this set up gives me a point-on of 20 yards. Put the arrow tip on the x and let 'er rip  . 

With my hunting bow I used to gap but recently switched to a fixed crawl.


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## FLlongshot

I'm shooting my 3d bow now which is 46# otf, 3 under. I don't string walk or gap but it's certainly not instinctive lol. Once ASA is over in a few weeks I'll drop down to ~42# for indoor and work up some different arrows. We'll see how that goes.


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## LuisLeon

Thanks for the reply gentlemen. I shoot split, but it may be time to rethink that. The targets you guys posted show that I have a long, long way to go.


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## OCTradMan

From today: 161, 196, 168


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## FLlongshot

Luis, keep in mind that at some point, we ALL had a long way to go. Consistancy is both the key and the objective, so before you change anything too dramatically make sure you're doing your part correctly. Then implement changes in increments to gauge the effect. Build on the things that work and use the things that don't to teach you something. With a measured approach and an open mind things will fall into place.


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## mrjeffro

279 on Sunday, 278 this evening. 

I am really enjoying this Spig BB. I usually only shoot it Jan- March during our winter league. Then it gets put away and my hunting bow is shot all spring thru the end of hunting season. Things might have to change


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## FLlongshot

That's great shooting, congrats.


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## centershot

Great shooting, never hurts to mix in a 300 round. Quickly lets you know if you are on your game or not.


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## OCTradMan

Today with my Cartel Sirius stock with no aids:
192, 180, 192


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## FLlongshot

Ok, the ASA Classic is behind us so on to indoor lol! I tried a new limb/arrow setup and managed 268. Not bad but with some tuning it may work out well. There's a couple extra holes in the face, I shot three 3's all in the same end! Momentary lapse of reason I suppose.


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## moog5050

Too hot outside so I shot my first 20yd round in a long time. 262. Not bad but did have 5 or 6 3s. Moved to a tab and am finally getting very comfortable with it. Looking forward to Oct. 1.


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## mrjeffro

Fighting the mosquitos and the pending darkness, shot my PB tonight 93-97-94 ...284 . 

My goal this summer was to spend more time shooting my Spig BB and break the 270 mark. Tonight was my first shooting session with no 3's . Very happy about that. It was just one of those nights where everything felt good


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## Demmer

Nice jeffro

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## bbtradlb

I spent last year chasing 270 with a trad/bb rig - shot multiple 268's but never hit 270. Since I went to a longbow for the outdoor season I have decided to keep using it for indoor. But I still want to try to break 270.

Recent attempts show I have a ways to go - this weekend I shot a 238 with aluminum arrows and a 229 with my outdoor wood arrows....


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## mrjeffro

Well, the Spig BB is put away til January. With hunting season a month away I Pulled out the 50# Covert Hunter . Shot a 263 tonight. 

Hoping to break 270 by the end of the month with this bow but it ain't going to be easy


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## FLlongshot

Was messing around with my 3d setup today and decided to shoot a vegas round for a change. Scored 257 so tried again for 266. Not too bad.


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## tandemcpl

Joined a league a couple weeks ago and after three rounds my average is 266. This is on a NFAA blue face. This is not as good as I had hoped for, but once I fine tune my setup, my scores should improve.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## centershot

Mid 260's average at league is very good. There are so many distractions that I rarely shoot my practice scores at leagues.


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## Halfcawkt

Last night was my first time touching my bow for a few weeks. It was really rough, and seemed nigh on impossible at first.

First round was an abysmal 187. Limbered up and knuckled down... 237 for the second. My very last shot shot the very center out of the x, so called it a night. I like to end on a high note.

Will be shooting more paper now since I think it will help my find more consistency. I hate shooting paper, but I do see it as a tool to solidify my mental game. Expect to see more scores from me as time allows. I worked 90-110 hour weeks for over the last month, so time is certainly a factor. The oil field is picking up, so my bank account is happier at the expense of my shooting opportunities...


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## tandemcpl

centershot said:


> Mid 260's average at league is very good. There are so many distractions that I rarely shoot my practice scores at leagues.


To say that there are distractions on our league night is an understatement. However, if I can get to where I’m posting good scores there, I should be able to do okay when it counts.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## tandemcpl

I made some adjustments to my setup and was able to pull off a 282. I just hope I’m able to repeat this from now on.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## DaveWood

I just shot my first NFAA indoor 300 round and I shot a 192 with my Shakespeare Manitou. Without a couple flyers I should be above 200...


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## tandemcpl

Good shooting Dave. 

Keep at it, with consistent shooting you'll be surprised how fast you’ll improve.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## centershot

tandemcpl said:


> I made some adjustments to my setup and was able to pull off a 282. I just hope I’m able to repeat this from now on.
> 
> Be blessed.
> 
> Toby


Anytime you shoot in the 280's it's a great round.


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## mrjeffro

Middle of October I should be shooting my hunting bow but keep finding myself pulling out the Spig BB to practice for Lancaster Classic. This target has 90 shots in it. A 30 round from last week (shot 272) and a 60 round today ( shot 553) . Kept them all out of the blue  . Seeing some of the past BB scores from Lancaster shows I have more work to do


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## Demmer

Toby and Jeffro, that's great shooting!
Jeffro, I wouldn't be worried about top scores at Lancaster, they all get reset to zero after day one. Lol

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## mrjeffro

Lol! Great point John. 

Obviously when shooting in the backyard there is zero pressure as compared to shooting in tournaments. To try and add pressure, I recruited my 16 year old daughter to stand right next to me and stare at my face


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## FLlongshot

Here's the last end of what turned out to be a 252, 8X round with my Omega Imperial and spruce shafts. I need to work on those crappy flyers. I gave away 10 points on 5 or 6 arrows.


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## mrjeffro

Taking advantage of a 75 degree late October morning. Deer aren't moving so time to pull out the Spig BB  

Shot a 280 using the NFAA 5-spot target. I usually don't use this 5spot but that's all I had . Now it's time to break in some new mountain muffler strings on the hunting bow


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## Stephen Morley

I shot my first round today, 281 but I don't plan on doing a lot of shooting through this winter, I need time to heal my fingers and build some overall upper body strength, so that will be my main focus. A new slightly thicker/longer Tab has helped relax my fingers more, although I still need time to settle into it I think it will be better for me in the long run.

Normal routine is I start off well make a some nice improvements over 5-6 weeks then it slowly goes downhill and end up daydreaming about being out in the Woods again  I think this is mental and physical fatigue, Summer I'm shooting 4-5 days a week, winter 2 days at most and towards the end of Indoor season I'm falling apart, so I plan to do a little less shooting and a little more strength work, I specially want to work on the front shoulder.


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## FLlongshot

Indoor league started last night, shooting my Omega Imperial, douglas fir shafts. Got a 3x 23 on the last end to eek out an even 250. First round I shot with these shafts, they have quite a bit of wobble but should tune very nice when I get them worked out. More next week!


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## centershot

Good shooting FL, nothing wrong with 250. Especially for the first night of leagues. I've been shooting my compound for the first leagues this year but am really missing the recurve. I think I'll use it after Christmas on the NFAA league. I want to spend some time shooting with a fixed crawl and shooting leagues will be a good way to shake out any issues. I know it will not NFAA Trad legal rules, but being how I am the only one shooting a recurve - so what?


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## Stephen Morley

I pulled something two days ago hurts in my draw Scapula and side/back of my ribs, yesterday painful to breath, today not so bad just sharp pain with deep breaths. I hate cold winters and getting old lol


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## jogilvie69

I shot my first 300 round since the end of August this evening. I've had my hunting limbs on since then but I've really had the itch to shoot a round so I put my light limbs on and gave it a go. I shot a 262. Not my personal best but I was fairly happy with it considering the lack of practice I've been putting in. I only dropped 10 points in my last 5 ends. Lol


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## FLlongshot

With the holiday last week I forgot to post my league score...238. Tonight I got 244. Still tuning my Douglas fir shafts but I think I like my spruce better. We'll see, more next week.


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## jogilvie69

FLlongshot said:


> With the holiday last week I forgot to post my league score...238. Tonight I got 244. Still tuning my Douglas fir shafts but I think I like my spruce better. We'll see, more next week.


That's good shooting. I'm sure my scores would drop a bunch with a longbow and wood arrows. Lol


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## FLlongshot

Thanks jog...wood arrows can definitely be humbling.


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## FEPSON

It took me 3 yrs of reading books and watching videos, but I finally broke 200 with a 211. Im just a backyard shooter, but enjoying my slow progression.
Im sure that I'll max out at some point, but I know I can do better.
You guys are an inspiration.


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## centershot

FEPSON said:


> It took me 3 yrs of reading books and watching videos, but I finally broke 200 with a 211. Im just a backyard shooter, but enjoying my slow progression.
> Im sure that I'll max out at some point, but I know I can do better.
> You guys are an inspiration.


You will max out at 300! That is the goal anyway - and still is for everyone shooting with Trad gear. As far as I know a 'Perfect 300' has not yet been achieved. Congrats on breaking 200 and 210. Now to work on breaking into the 220's.


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## jogilvie69

FEPSON said:


> It took me 3 yrs of reading books and watching videos, but I finally broke 200 with a 211. Im just a backyard shooter, but enjoying my slow progression.
> Im sure that I'll max out at some point, but I know I can do better.
> You guys are an inspiration.


Congrats on breaking 200! I really enjoy shooting the 300 round. It's a good way to measure your progress and you always have a goal "300" to reach. Stick with it. It sounds like you're moving in the right direction.


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## motarded

Shot my first 300 round with the WF25 today. Ended up with a 273 7x, can't wait for the indoor leaves to start up.


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## Halfcawkt

I had a bad night last night, had to shoot a bow I'd left hanging for awhile and only shot 200 on the blue face.


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## centershot

It's been a while since I shot a 300 round so Saturday I decided to fix that. Trying a couple new setups and new methods so things were a little sketchy to begin with. First round was a 263 shooting my Rambo Warf and 34# Limbs with GT 700 Arrows. I was shooting this rig off the shelf with a slight crawl (about 1/4" to get my arrow on the bottom of the paper or close) and a short stabilizer. Decent and about what I deserved with a few 3's mostly low from dropping my bowarm.......after that round I had my longbow with me so I thought I might as well give that a whirl also. With this bow I shot Trad legal (finger touching the nock), same arrows. Shot 247 with this rig. Fun factor is high with the longbow but the forgiving factor is pretty rough. That little lightweight (physical and draw) punishes poor shots - but good ones like the very last end 25 make it a lot of fun to shoot. One thing is for sure, I have to get back to shooting more 300 rounds - fatigue was a factor on the last round. Fun stuff.


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## FLlongshot

Good shooting center. I've got some super light polaris limbs that I stuck on my Victor riser that only pull 26 otf for me. My full length black eagle 600's are point on at 20 so I'm going to give them a whirl at league tomorrow just for the hell of it. We'll see lol.


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## Halfcawkt

Well knuckled down and shot 3 blue face 300 rounds.

I shot in this order 209, 216, 220. 

Not as good as I was shooting earlier this year, but way more consistent than I have been shooting the last few months.


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## jogilvie69

I've yet to try two rounds in a row Center and Halfcawkt. I feel pretty good after one but i'm sure the second would take its toll on me. Lol. I definitely need to shoot more rounds also.


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## Stephen Morley

jogilvie69 said:


> Congrats on breaking 200! I really enjoy shooting the 300 round. It's a good way to measure your progress and you always have a goal "300" to reach. Stick with it. It sounds like you're moving in the right direction.


I think once you break that 200 barrier it becomes more of a mental discipline than a Form discipline, breaking 200 says you now have the Form baseline and the biggest progress will likely come down to mental development.


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## FLlongshot

I would agree but I think the bar is higher. More like 220. At 200 average, there's still generally a lot of consistent form errors imo. By 220 average, I think those have been ironed out and the brain starts getting in the way more than anything.


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## Halfcawkt

FLlongshot said:


> I would agree but I think the bar is higher. More like 220. At 200 average, there's still generally a lot of consistent form errors imo. By 220 average, I think those have been ironed out and the brain starts getting in the way more than anything.


I agree with this. Most of my bad shots come from a mental lapse during the shot cycle.


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## Stephen Morley

FLlongshot said:


> I would agree but I think the bar is higher. More like 220.


Depends on the shooting style, Longbow/woodies 200 was the hardest hurdle (like 300 on the Field), once past that it progressed quite nicely. For Recurve it's maybe a little low but it's a nice round number to go for.


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## FLlongshot

Ok, that didn't work out! 26# draw is too light for me, no shot reaction to speak of and point on at 20 had the arrow moving so slow that any point error gave me a 3 low. Still got 259 but I can do much better. Back to the longbow next week once I get my spruce shafts refletched.


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## centershot

Those light limbs are not very forgiving of form errors. Short drawing or iffy release and into the 3 ring it goes! Trick is to find a weight you can shoot comfortably for the entire round, shoot an arrow that gives decent speed to forgive some of those draw length inconsistencies yet still gives you a decent gap.


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## FLlongshot

I agree completely. Unfortunately for me, I've got noodle limbs and 42+. It was an interesting round though. I'm really trying to focus on my longbow this season so I'll keep my recurve setup for 3d for the time being. I will say it is a nice feeling to know that my form is solid enough to shoot an unforgiving setup and only be penalized by sucking up a handful of 3's.


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## Halfcawkt

I shot a 213 on the vegas face after a traditional shoot today. It was my first ever with my new to me vintage Ben Pearson mustang.

Not great, but unfamiliar bow and untuned arrows, I've don far worse with far better.


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## jogilvie69

I shot my first 600 round tonight. Ended up with a 447. I was hoping for a little better but I guess it could've been worse. Lol. That FITA face can be humbling.


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## centershot

Shot 266 NFAA Trad legal on Sat. Shooting my Rambo Warf, rest/plunger, Entrada 700's, 3-Under without a stabilizer. Yanked one into the one ring - good grief, made for 21 the hard way! Other than that had a few 3's but pretty nice target centered left and right but a tad high. Ok for my first round of the year NFAA Trad legal, plenty of room to improve!


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## Stephen Morley

Just read Barebow Archer Erik Johnson from Sweden (won world Fields in Dublin) shot a 295 on the WA Indoor face, the photo is awesome the 10 is gone with a couple of holes in the 9 zone, that's like top Olympic level, I just cannot imagine that level of Form, Tune and Focus. :clap:


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## centershot

Stephen Morley said:


> Just read Barebow Archer Erik Johnson from Sweden (won world Fields in Dublin) shot a 295 on the WA Indoor face, the photo is awesome the 10 is gone with a couple of holes in the 9 zone, that's like top Olympic level, I just cannot imagine that level of Form, Tune and Focus. :clap:


Amazing - there are currently some of the very best barebow archers ever. A great time to be associated with traditional / recurve archery.


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## Stephen Morley

I fortunate enough to live close enough to visit Sweden and Finland for training, this Summer I spent a weekend in Stockholm and shot 5 different Field courses 6 times, some were awesome terrain as with Finland also (like Dublin finals). I'm going to work in Finland next month as well some tiny island in the south, will be interesting, I hope to hook up with Timo for some shoots if I can.


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## jogilvie69

Stephen Morley said:


> Just read Barebow Archer Erik Johnson from Sweden (won world Fields in Dublin) shot a 295 on the WA Indoor face, the photo is awesome the 10 is gone with a couple of holes in the 9 zone, that's like top Olympic level, I just cannot imagine that level of Form, Tune and Focus. :clap:


295 is ridiculous! I'm nowhere near that but I shot a couple personal best in the last few days. I shot a 509/600 on the FITA target and I shot a 280 on the NFAA blue face target I really wasn't expecting either of those but some days thing just go right. Lol


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## grantmac

Stephen Morley said:


> Just read Barebow Archer Erik Johnson from Sweden (won world Fields in Dublin) shot a 295 on the WA Indoor face, the photo is awesome the 10 is gone with a couple of holes in the 9 zone, that's like top Olympic level, I just cannot imagine that level of Form, Tune and Focus. :clap:


I saw that target on FB and I was stunned. The bar just keeps getting higher.


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## rsarns

Stephen Morley said:


> Just read Barebow Archer Erik Johnson from Sweden (won world Fields in Dublin) shot a 295 on the WA Indoor face, the photo is awesome the 10 is gone with a couple of holes in the 9 zone, that's like top Olympic level, I just cannot imagine that level of Form, Tune and Focus. :clap:


I had to look at it a couple times, that score is insane. Well done! I shot what is my best in practice the past 2 days after some very humbling shooting over the past few weeks, nothing close to that.... Looks like I need to find another 12 or so points..LOL Todays scores were closer to what my norm the past year or so and more human as compared to my score yesterday. I currently am shooting 2 sessions a day in practice for Las Vegas and the USA and NFAA indoor nat's. Yesterday shot my afternoon rounds in the 280's (Vegas face) which for me is amazing, and today barely missed 560 on a combined 2 rounds (AM/PM). I shoot a total of 4 rounds (AM/PM) after a 30 minute practice which includes my form work. 1 each with BB Recurve and the other with NFAA BH compound. My scores listed are with WA legal BB recurve. Usually I am mid 270's just hoping its a break through for me.


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## Stephen Morley

Great scores rsarns, I'm having a break partly for healing process on my fingers and to mentally recharge, kinda weird sitting on sidelines at last Indoor tourney (I set up targets and was timer for rounds). Will be interesting to see how much my scores have dropped and how much work I need to get back on track with my shooting in Feb.


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## FLlongshot

I shot a full round on a 5 spot face for the first time on Monday. Trad legal >12" weight/stab combo on my vaunted(HA!) Victor/Journey setup. None off the 4 ring so scored every arrow with only one close(very close) call. New limbs are 32 otf shooting full length BE Outlaw 600's. Got 275, 17x. I'm really trying to concentrate on my longbow but it's hard when my recurve does so well LOL!


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## centershot

295 is crazy - I shot a 237 last night on the Vegas face and felt like I shot decent. That is nearly an 8 on every arrow. After that I shot a NFAA round and ended up 262 11X. Not terrible but not great either. I'm starting to think there may actually be a few points to the stabilizer thing. I have been shooting without one so far this season and my scores have been off 5-10 points. Next time I get to the range maybe I'll screw one back on and see what happens.


----------



## RLEE77

I see scores on here 260, 270+, my question to those that can shoot that well is how do you do aim? Gap, string walking, face walking, just point and shoot? 
I basically just point and shoot.I also have lousy scores,150 on NFAA blue face target last month. I have been shooting for 1 year now and switched to left hand in May and still working on form.Our winter league 
starts in A week and I am hoping to do alot better thru the course of the league.


----------



## jogilvie69

I shoot 3 under and gap. I had a lot of help from some knowledgeable folks starting out to make sure my form was halfway decent. Good form is very important and I believe starting off with good advice got me where I am now.


----------



## centershot

I shoot gap/split vision - I have messed with stringwalking a bit, but tend to shoot NFAA Trad legal as that is the rules the locals go by. My setup is a 1980's Rambo Warf with a beater set of SF Carbon Foam 32# Longs (66" AMO bow). I use a hoyt superest and tradtech shorty plunger. I have a wrist sling on my bow but no stabilizer. I shoot GT Entrada 700's w/ 125gr field points fletched with 3) 3" feathers. I shoot 3-Under with a finger touching the nock. Bow shoots around 165-170fps. Not exactly a target rig, but it works good and I don't have too much $ invested.


----------



## FLlongshot

I shoot 3 under with a technique best described as "sorta gap". I use a gap to get close then focus on the x and let my brain kind of auto drift it in. I do this with longbow and my trad legal barebow. I'll say this...aim is easy to correct if technique is solid. When I first started, it took me a while to figure out that point and shoot is synonymous with spray and pray if the objective is to hit a little white or gold dot.


----------



## rsarns

RLEE77 said:


> I see scores on here 260, 270+, my question to those that can shoot that well is how do you do aim? Gap, string walking, face walking, just point and shoot?
> I basically just point and shoot.I also have lousy scores,150 on NFAA blue face target last month. I have been shooting for 1 year now and switched to left hand in May and still working on form.Our winter league
> starts in A week and I am hoping to do alot better thru the course of the league.


I setup my bow to be point on at 21 yards, that puts my tip at the bottom of the yellow on the Vegas face target and white on the NFAA, I do that by lowering my draw weight a bit (38-40#) and using heavy arrows. Currently using 2315 with 200 gr tips and 4" feathers. A few years back I adjusted to a point on vice a gap and my scores increased dramatically.


----------



## RLEE77

may have to consider looking into gap shooting. I am shooting Easton 1716 Platinum+ off the shelf they fly great but are quite light, 385 grains. would have to switch to A heavier
arrow and 3 under to get the gap smaller. thanks for the info on your setups and method of shooting. it's good to know that you are using A sighting method and not just 
" spray and pray" as I do to get the higher scores.


----------



## grantmac

I setup to be point on like Ren, dramatic increase in scores that way.


----------



## FLlongshot

245 this morning with Omega longbow and fir shafts. I need to sort shafts, had one doing funny things every 2nd or 3rd shot.


----------



## davidflorida

Finally broke the 240 mark , shot a 243 had 4 shots I would like back but I will take it . Shooting the sage with 40# limbs. Got some new arrows fletched them up left them whole and just shot them .


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## davidflorida

Just looked back I shot a 245 last year , I hope it stays with me this time . Not sure what happened but it took a while to get back there.


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## FLlongshot

Longbow/Douglas fir shot 243 last night at league. Still adjusting arrows and tune but I'm moving in the right direction. Once I get my arrows how I like I'll do a final sort and number then we'll see. Trying to avoid buying another set of shafts.


----------



## Sauk Mountain

I've got a 100 pack of the single spot blue face targets headed my way and I have a question. I know it's most likely not allowed in competition, but if I shoot my hunting rig and use my 20 yard fixed crawl will you guys come to my front door waving torches and pitchforks or can I still post my scores here? I'll be shooting outside though.


----------



## centershot

Shoot however you want. As long as your doing it and getting better (hopefully) then 'run what you brung'.


----------



## jogilvie69

Sauk Mountain said:


> I've got a 100 pack of the single spot blue face targets headed my way and I have a question. I know it's most likely not allowed in competition, but if I shoot my hunting rig and use my 20 yard fixed crawl will you guys come to my front door waving torches and pitchforks or can I still post my scores here? I'll be shooting outside though.


It won't bother me the least bit. Lol. I don't really care how other people shoot as long as they're shooting. I want to try a round one of these days with a fixed crawl just to see if my scores improve any.


----------



## efm2

I just atarted archery, particularly barebow, September of last year and really got serious last December. I shot 18m just for fun before the year ended just as an ego booster that I was finally able to shoot 18m !!! )). That really drained me that day because the concentration required at 18m is far far more intense than the 12m I'm used to practicing . Anyway, yesterday, I decided to score my targets on an NFAA 40cm target because I now want to move from 12m to 14m. I got 275 & 275 on 2 sets of 300 one after the other but the last two ends of the second set was really very hard. My group was already opening up and I feel I'm already tiring. Fortunately I was able to slvage the last 2 ends. If I can score consistently 270/300 for the next 2 weeks then I think I'm ready to move to 14m. I'm currently using a 19" Titan III with 18# Samick Privilege (probably translated to 24# OTF) with GT Warrior 700 with 85g tip or is it 80? full length. Hoping to improve some more but I'm not in a hurry . Still trying to perfect my form.


----------



## centershot

Good shooting efm - 240 is usually the step back score so your 270+ scores are certainly above that. Make sure your comfortable then move back - take your time.


----------



## grantmac

Haven't shot this round since 2012 and haven't really picked up a single string in a year or so.
Results predictably bad: 238.
Had some good ends and a few wildly bad ones. Need to play with arrows and tune.


----------



## efm2

Thanks centershot. 



centershot said:


> Good shooting efm - 240 is usually the step back score so your 270+ scores are certainly above that. Make sure your comfortable then move back - take your time.


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

I joined a 300 Spot League for the first time in 20 years and my first time with a stickbow. First night score was 221.

Not stellar, but an ok starting point.


----------



## hammer08

It's cold outside and hunting season is pretty much over. That means it's indoor archery season for me. I look forward to indoor archery the most since there isn't much else to do when it gets cod out. I picked up my barebow setup a couple weeks ago after not putting in any serious time with it since last indoor season. I shot my Timberpoint longbow for a couple months over the summer but longbow is a completely different animal. When I first picked it up I was shooting maybe 20-30 good arrows before I got too tired. My first scored rounds were in the 520's. It's been a challenge getting my form, accuracy, and stamina back to where it was at the end of last winter but I'm making progress. My time at the range has really ramped up over the past few days in preparation for a local tournament this weekend. Today I shot a 551 9x FITA round. Which would've ended up being a 290 NFAA blueface round. I'm hoping to carry that over into this weekend's tournament and continue to improve as the winter goes on. 

I'm shooting a 27" Gillo G1 and MK Veracity limbs at 37lbs. I've been going back and forth between full length 2312's with 150 grain points and full length cxl 150's with 145 grain points. Edge goes to the cxl's right now but I'm going to keep playing with both. Also I've found that I'm shooting better on the 3 spot target than the single spot. My point can cover the entire target on the 3 spot making it easier to aim.


----------



## cpnhgnlngct

Hammer, great shooting man. Wish you were going to Lancaster this year. I'd try to persuade you to bring along that Timberpoint. Its on my short bow list and I've yet to get my hands on one to play with.

Good luck this weekend.


----------



## hammer08

Thank you! I wish I could make it too. I miss seeing a lot of the people that will be there. It's been too long since I've gotten out to a big shoot. So much going on with work and life in general but I'm hoping to get back into it. 

I shot a half round today at a local club. Really solid shooting for me minus a couple poorly executed shots.


----------



## jogilvie69

Hammer, that's awesome shooting! Is the right half of your picture an app that you have on your phone?


----------



## 40n105w!

Shooting a Martin Hatfield recurve for a year I averaged 233. Shooting an SF Axiom+ ILF recurve last year I averaged 250. Thinking about seeing what I can do this year with a longbow.


----------



## hammer08

Yup, it's an app. Just helps me keep track of my shooting a little better. I can track group size/shape and trends.

Here's a pic of one of my first scored rounds a couple weeks ago. I was shooting everything to the right so I moved my button a little bit. 








Here's one from yesterday. I've been shooting slightly to the left looking at yesterday and today. 








I highly recommend using something similar and taking notes on each session.


----------



## jogilvie69

What is the name of the app?


----------



## hammer08

The one I've got is called "Archery Score". There are a bunch of them to choose from though.


----------



## hammer08

Shot a 509 this past weekend. Had a terrible 233 half where I yanked a few arrows to the moon. Other than that I shot solid form despite getting a little tired at the end. More practice and on to the next!


----------



## mtboho

what are the Nfaa rules on barebow(recurve)? Do you have the option to shoot your 5 arrows into the single target side? and is fixed crawl not acceptable by NFAA standards?


----------



## grantmac

mtboho said:


> what are the Nfaa rules on barebow(recurve)? Do you have the option to shoot your 5 arrows into the single target side? and is fixed crawl not acceptable by NFAA standards?


If you only want to compete with recurves (not compounds) then you cannot use a fixed crawl.
Any class may shoot the single spot.


----------



## davidflorida

I started using this one this weekend .


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## FLlongshot

Shot 236 at league tonight with the Omega and fir shafts. Still sorting shafts, finally got a tune I'm happy with so moving forward.


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

Shot 219 tonight. Was shooting 10-15 points ahead of last week until I totally ran out gas the last 3 ends.


----------



## jogilvie69

I shot a 501 on the FITA target this evening. 239 first half and a 262 the second half. I only had 3 arrows in the blue on the first half but I was having trouble getting them in the gold too. 262 is my personal best for a half.


----------



## Halfcawkt

Just shot 214 last night. Have been in a slump so it looks like I'm recovering. That was fita face.


----------



## motarded

decided to shoot a 5 spot a league, and lost a couple points because of it. ended up with a 266 12x. gotta get that x count up, might be focus, or maybe just need to get release a bit cleaner.


----------



## jogilvie69

motarded said:


> decided to shoot a 5 spot a league, and lost a couple points because of it. ended up with a 266 12x. gotta get that x count up, might be focus, or maybe just need to get release a bit cleaner.


That's why I shoot the single spot. Twos and threes add up faster than zeros. Lol.


----------



## davidflorida

Shot a 215 at league the other night , saved myself with an 80 on the last game . First 2 where terrible . 


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## FLlongshot

Tried my spruce shafts with the Omega Imperial today in the backyard. Shot 247, 7x.


----------



## FLlongshot

Again this morning...








259, 10x


----------



## BigCnyn

First night indoor Leauges, 
Shot indoors since 2013, got started again kids are moving on Im bored...
248 7x
going to be fun


----------



## LeeIndy

Neat thread


----------



## Halfcawkt

Shot 227 vegas face yesterday.


----------



## tandemcpl

I started an indoor spot league last night. I have been struggling a little with my shot lately, but I was able to post a 272 with 18 Xs (Blue Face). The best part of the night was that I was able to let down four times; however, there were three other times that I should have.

Be blessed.

Toby


----------



## tandemcpl

@FLlongshot

That is some very good shooting with a longbow and wood arrows.

Toby


----------



## FLlongshot

Thank you tandem!


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## FLlongshot

I got 5 of my fir shafts fletched today and couldn't resist, so shot a full round this afternoon, Omega Longbow-Douglas fir shafts. New personal best 266. I am very, very happy!


----------



## mrjeffro

Warmed up to a balmy 30 degrees so I was able to get some practice in with my Spig BB. Ended up with a 280. Good thing I was shooting a single spot because three shots ended up in the 3-ring


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## davidflorida

I shot a 231 sunday . looking forward to next weekend 3 d shoot ...


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## jogilvie69

davidflorida said:


> I shot a 231 sunday . looking forward to next weekend 3 d shoot ...


That's good improvement over the last round you posted.


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## CodyGabhart

Is this a traditional archery post?


----------



## Demmer

Cody, yes

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## davidflorida

I have shot a 247 as my best but never near that at league . I have to get used to the lighting our something, we shoot outside on a lighted range . And I like to play around with different limb weights and arrows. Have a new riser and limbs on order that I plan on setting up as my league bow and leave it at that.


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## Longbowfanatic

FLlongshot said:


> Again this morning...
> View attachment 5356617
> 
> 
> 259, 10x


Good shooting, FL. What app is this?


----------



## FLlongshot

Longbowfanatic said:


> Good shooting, FL. What app is this?


It's called ScoringHelper. Free in the Google play store.


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## FLlongshot

Shot 240 at league last night. Frustrating to give up 10 points on 5 or 6 shots. My fir shafts are tuned exceptionally well, just gotta keep my head in the game for 60 shots, tough when chatting etc.


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## davidflorida

this app is pretty cool


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## ncheels

Thanks for showing that app David. Looks great.


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## jogilvie69

I shot a 274 yesterday evening. It was a good looking target for me. Group was centered a little low around the bottom of the white. Only had one arrow high in the 3 ring.


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## jcs-bowhunter

Shot 233 tonight


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## BigCnyn

267 8x leagues 
need to move some 2's but averaged 4.45 per arrow


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## Longbowfanatic

FLlongshot said:


> It's called ScoringHelper. Free in the Google play store.


 Thx FL


----------



## Stephen Morley

I have a tourney today, not shot much last couple of months. I shot pretty nice the other day in practice, it did take me longer than normal to dial my shot in and hope my mental game holds up for the full tourney, it will be fun either way. Not sure how it works your side of the pond but we get two practice ends to warm up, it normally takes me 3-4 ends to really dial in.

Took me a while to adjust to a thicker Tab but my fingers feel better for it, not sure about the scores yet lol


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## jogilvie69

Stephen Morley said:


> I have a tourney today, not shot much last couple of months. I shot pretty nice the other day in practice, it did take me longer than normal to dial my shot in and hope my mental game holds up for the full tourney, it will be fun either way. Not sure how it works your side of the pond but we get two practice ends to warm up, it normally takes me 3-4 ends to really dial in.
> 
> Took me a while to adjust to a thicker Tab but my fingers feel better for it, not sure about the scores yet lol


Good luck today!


----------



## Stephen Morley

jogilvie69 said:


> Good luck today!


Thanks, it was fun, I did a merry dance around the 5 spot, it felt like good solid shots and a relaxed aim but I just couldn't tighten those groups into the spot. 267 not great but not a complete disaster either considering it's my second Indoor round since Oct.


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## jogilvie69

Stephen Morley said:


> Thanks, it was fun, I did a merry dance around the 5 spot, it felt like good solid shots and a relaxed aim but I just couldn't tighten those groups into the spot. 267 not great but not a complete disaster either considering it's my second Indoor round since Oct.


Nothing wrong with that. I've never shot an indoor tournament. I'm sure my scores would drop if I did. I mostly shoot at home and down at the local shop. I've only seen three people with single string bows at my local shop in the year that I've been shooting my recurve. Not much competition. Lol. I see a lot more at 3D shoots though.


----------



## motarded

single spot this week at league 276 18x.


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## tandemcpl

Stephen Morley said:


> Thanks, it was fun, I did a merry dance around the 5 spot, it felt like good solid shots and a relaxed aim but I just couldn't tighten those groups into the spot. 267 not great but not a complete disaster either considering it's my second Indoor round since Oct.


267 is pretty darn good for as seldom as you have been shooting them.

Toby


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## tandemcpl

motarded said:


> single spot this week at league 276 18x.


Great shooting.

Toby


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## tandemcpl

I shot yesterday and was fairly happy with the round (274); however, I had to many 4s.

The one thing I was really pleased with was that I didn't have any 3s. I just need to tighten up my group.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## FLlongshot

249 at league last night. Omega imperial/sitka spruce shafts.


----------



## asa_low12

Funny story - I just started shooting a recurve "seriously" a few weeks ago. By "seriously" I mean that I really want to hunt with it next year and have been putting in the time practicing and working on my setup so that I can hopefully do so and have confidence that I can ethically kill a deer with it. I first clicked on this thread a few days ago and only read the first 2 or 3 posts on it. Coming from the compound world, my mind immediately went to vegas targets. I went out to the shop and setup one of the 1/2 size vegas faces at 13 yards and started shooting a round for score. That didn't last very long, as my confidence quickly went down the drain after reading scores of 220, 240, etc.. I'm just glad I looked at page 75 today and realize you guys are shooting the big blue face. I'm not sure what it's even called, but i'm going to figure it out and order some and give scoring another shot without doing it on a 1/2 size vegas face. I thought you guys were either damn good or had to be using sights and olympic style bows or something along those lines. :teeth:


----------



## jogilvie69

asa_low12 said:


> Funny story - I just started shooting a recurve "seriously" a few weeks ago. By "seriously" I mean that I really want to hunt with it next year and have been putting in the time practicing and working on my setup so that I can hopefully do so and have confidence that I can ethically kill a deer with it. I first clicked on this thread a few days ago and only read the first 2 or 3 posts on it. Coming from the compound world, my mind immediately went to vegas targets. I went out to the shop and setup one of the 1/2 size vegas faces at 13 yards and started shooting a round for score. That didn't last very long, as my confidence quickly went down the drain after reading scores of 220, 240, etc.. I'm just glad I looked at page 75 today and realize you guys are shooting the big blue face. I'm not sure what it's even called, but i'm going to figure it out and order some and give scoring another shot without doing it on a 1/2 size vegas face. I thought you guys were either damn good or had to be using sights and olympic style bows or something along those lines. :teeth:


NFAA 40cm single spot. There are some Vegas target scores posted on here also. There are some excellent shooters posting on this thread.


----------



## rsarns

asa_low12 said:


> Funny story - I just started shooting a recurve "seriously" a few weeks ago. By "seriously" I mean that I really want to hunt with it next year and have been putting in the time practicing and working on my setup so that I can hopefully do so and have confidence that I can ethically kill a deer with it. I first clicked on this thread a few days ago and only read the first 2 or 3 posts on it. Coming from the compound world, my mind immediately went to vegas targets. I went out to the shop and setup one of the 1/2 size vegas faces at 13 yards and started shooting a round for score. That didn't last very long, as my confidence quickly went down the drain after reading scores of 220, 240, etc.. I'm just glad I looked at page 75 today and realize you guys are shooting the big blue face. I'm not sure what it's even called, but i'm going to figure it out and order some and give scoring another shot without doing it on a 1/2 size vegas face. I thought you guys were either damn good or had to be using sights and olympic style bows or something along those lines. :teeth:


I shoot the Vegas target for the most part until after Vegas (2 weeks from now), but this year have been shooting both as Texas has a tourney every week shooting the NFAA target. My scores are on average 5 to 8 points lower on the Vegas so far this year. I will say I have shot some personal bests on the Vegas target this year and hope it carries through Vegas. The Lancaster Classic will have live coverage Friday and Saturday with some of the best shooting the Vegas target but with the X counting as an 11. Fun to watch, wish I could make it but too close to Vegas time.


----------



## rsarns

The really cool thing about this thread is to go back and see what you were shooting a few years ago and the average of what others were and the progression of scores through the years. Awesome job.


----------



## davidflorida

231 at league Tuesday , 45 # sage full length fat boy 500 spine arrows 


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## jcs-bowhunter

229 tonight, had only 2 arrows outside the 3 ring


----------



## BigCnyn

shot a makeup round 259 9x
and a 263 12x working on those 2s


----------



## Halfcawkt

232 on vegas face tonight with my new BigStick reaper longbow. That was a real confidence booster!


----------



## FLlongshot

Shot a round on the 5 spot after work with my barebow recurve/easton fatboys. Here's the last end of a 277.


----------



## davidflorida

Bumped my pb up at league tonight with a 242 . And shot a 1-1/2 day 3-d tourney this weekend fun time in the pouring rain Sunday . Winning!


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## FLlongshot

Good shooting David! Those fatboys are liking you!

I also shot a pb barebow recurve in the backyard today, 282.


----------



## welkin25

I thought I'd join in to keep track of my progress -- seeing others' score here was inspiring as it showed just how much potential there is in shooting traditional!

I've been shooting my Samick sage for a month now, but tonight was my first time shooting at 20 yards, as well as shooting in a league. Fita 40cm target, 107 points (some arrows didn't even make it on target ), abysmal but I tell myself that just means I got a lot of room for improvement


----------



## davidflorida

Good shooting lee, looks like your dialed in. Welkin slow and steady what weight limbs you shooting?


----------



## FLlongshot

davidflorida said:


> Good shooting lee, looks like your dialed in. Welkin slow and steady what weight limbs you shooting?


These are 31#. I like the trajectory with the arrows I've got(I abandoned the Fatboys for my Black Eagles)but the light weight isn't very forgiving. I'd like 36-38 but then I need arrows too, so going with these for now. I need to adjust my rest a little, shooting an inch left so the whole round was a mental struggle to try and keep them centered. This is only the second real round I've shot with this combination so I'm optimistic about some good scores. I'm going to shoot this setup at league next Tuesday so we'll see how it goes.


----------



## davidflorida

lee see ya Tuesday , we are shooting tomorrow trying to get Maurice set up and I have one make up to do before next Tuesday . Next Tuesday is the last shoot for the league bill said all scores have to be done by next Tuesday . Awards the following Tuesday .


----------



## welkin25

I'm using 25# limbs. I am still practicing on 10 yards (I plan to move further once I can consistently hit the yellow center, does that sound right?), only joined the league because it looked fun and I wanted to meet more local archers.


----------



## rsarns

welkin25 said:


> I'm using 25# limbs. I am still practicing on 10 yards (I plan to move further once I can consistently hit the yellow center, does that sound right?), only joined the league because it looked fun and I wanted to meet more local archers.


Should work well for you. Talk to other Trad shooters and learn from them


----------



## hammer08

Tuesday was one of the first times I picked up my bow since I shot a tournament a few weeks ago. Shot a 543 9x. Yesterday I shot a 537 9x and this morning a 543 8x I just don't have it anymore lol. I'm shooting all over the place and don't have any idea why. I'll shoot 9 x 7 9 10 8 and all the shots feel the same.


----------



## jogilvie69

hammer08 said:


> Tuesday was one of the first times I picked up my bow since I shot a tournament a few weeks ago. Shot a 543 9x. Yesterday I shot a 537 9x and this morning a 543 8x I just don't have it anymore lol. I'm shooting all over the place and don't have any idea why. I'll shoot 9 x 7 9 10 8 and all the shots feel the same.


I have to shoot a 6 or worse and a lot of times I still can't feel what went wrong. Lol. It would be nice to know what I did wrong on every single one of those wild shots. I would probably be content for a little while if I was consistently shooting 530-540. Lol


----------



## rsarns

hammer08 said:


> Tuesday was one of the first times I picked up my bow since I shot a tournament a few weeks ago. Shot a 543 9x. Yesterday I shot a 537 9x and this morning a 543 8x I just don't have it anymore lol. I'm shooting all over the place and don't have any idea why. I'll shoot 9 x 7 9 10 8 and all the shots feel the same.


Video..... video shows the flaws we cannot feel.


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

234 tonight


----------



## FLlongshot

274, trad legal barebow. Had a league makeup tonight.


----------



## davidflorida

236 , let a few get away . 


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----------



## bfisherman11

Have you guys found an android app for the NFAA 300 game?


----------



## BigCnyn

252 7x
Struggled to find my groove


----------



## FLlongshot

bfisherman11 said:


> Have you guys found an android app for the NFAA 300 game?


The one above is called Scoring Helper. It's basic but works fine for my purpose. Free in the Google play store.


----------



## FLlongshot

Indoor league ended last night. Finished with a 254, Omega Imperial longbow/Douglas Fir shafts.


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

Shot 238 tonight


----------



## tandemcpl

I shot in a tournament Sunday and shot a 275.

Toby


----------



## centershot

That is a great tournament score! Congrats.


----------



## bfisherman11

FLlongshot, Thanks


----------



## tandemcpl

Shot in another tournament this morning and managed to pull off a 276. 

Toby


----------



## davidflorida

Put a new string on my sage after the other broke , got a bcy from 60 x Set the brace and tied on a knock at 5/8 shot a 242 on the blue face . Now I have to take off the stabilizer and see how I shoot, will be shooting the ibo this weekend so I think that will put me in with the other guys shooting off the shelf . Got to give lee aka flalongshot a run for it hahahhahaahah oh ya and jinks ..... should be a fun weekend.


----------



## FLlongshot

David, I'm doing all my shooting on Friday. I'll be there from early till about 4:15-4:30. The longbow is shooting sweet, I wish I could be around Sunday.


----------



## jcs-bowhunter

Off night, 234


----------



## tandemcpl

Every time I get feeling good about my scores on the blue face I bring out the FITA face for a reality check.

I shot a 262 last night at league on the FITA face.

Toby


----------



## BigCnyn

256 10 x
263 12 x make up score nfaa


----------



## hammer08

Shot a 542 at my state tournament today. Minus some left arrows I couldn't quite figure out and putting one in the 6 while getting bumped I shot well for me. 

That broke a 20 year old state record set by Paul Vogel back when I was almost still in diapers. He shoots tomorrow and knowing him he'll probably set the new record lol


----------



## tandemcpl

hammer08 said:


> Shot a 542 at my state tournament today. Minus some left arrows I couldn't quite figure out and putting one in the 6 while getting bumped I shot well for me.
> 
> That broke a 20 year old state record set by Paul Vogel back when I was almost still in diapers. He shoots tomorrow and knowing him he'll probably set the new record lol


Great shooting.


----------



## Demmer

tandemcpl said:


> Every time I get feeling good about my scores on the blue face I bring out the FITA face for a reality check.
> 
> I shot a 262 last night at league on the FITA face.
> 
> Toby


Toby, this is why lots hate the fita face, and I love it. It makes you more accountable on how you are shooting. Can't get complacent on this face. When people shoot the fita face, they need to be accepting of lower scores, because there is way more opportunities to drop points. By the way, 262 isn't bad. 

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## Demmer

hammer08 said:


> Shot a 542 at my state tournament today. Minus some left arrows I couldn't quite figure out and putting one in the 6 while getting bumped I shot well for me.
> 
> That broke a 20 year old state record set by Paul Vogel back when I was almost still in diapers. He shoots tomorrow and knowing him he'll probably set the new record lol


Sweet. I gotta make sure Paul knows that. Haha

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## rsarns

272 on FITA today. Where was that last weekend. Lol


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## rsarns

rsarns said:


> 272 on FITA today. Where was that last weekend. Lol


The app target tracker will give you a graph of misses, today the majority of my shots were high telling me I might have been a bit "Healy" with the grip. Analysis helps as I had many rounds recently with 70% to the right of center. Just another tool.


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## Demmer

Interesting high pattern. I get those from time to time when I ripe the shot and use muscle instead of the back. Usually when I'm getting tired. 

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## rsarns

Demmer said:


> Interesting high pattern. I get those from time to time when I ripe the shot and use muscle instead of the back. Usually when I'm getting tired.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Good point, that round was after a lot of practice and looked like I was exaggerating the pull through release watching the video.


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## hammer08

tandemcpl said:


> Great shooting.



Thank you!


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## shwnhxn

My 10 y.o daughter @ 18m last week tournament scores 276, 281

PROUD FATHER!!


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## hammer08

Demmer said:


> Sweet. I gotta make sure Paul knows that. Haha
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




Haha Let me know how the old man does today. Hope he breaks it and gives me something to chase again.


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## jogilvie69

I shot a 262 on the FITA target yesterday evening. I was really happy with it except the 4th end which was a 21. I guess I need to learnt to focus better. Lol


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## tandemcpl

jogilvie69 said:


> I shot a 262 on the FITA target yesterday evening. I was really happy with it except the 4th end which was a 21. I guess I need to learnt to focus better. Lol


Good shooting.


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## tandemcpl

I shot a practice round today and was able to manage a 272. I was fighting it the whole way until about the ninth end when I figured out what I was doing wrong. My last end was a 4X 25.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## jogilvie69

tandemcpl said:


> Good shooting.


Thanks. The last time I shot the blue face I shot a 271. I shot better as I went. I think my second half was a 139. I usually shoot better toward the end for some reason.


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## jcs-bowhunter

234 tonight


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## mrjeffro

Shot the Traditional division of the mid-Atlantic sectional tournament. Ended up with a 278 15 x's. I had a string of 6 consecutive 24 rounds but just couldn't shoot a 25 all morning.


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## Demmer

Not bad Jeff!!!

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## Michigan Dave

After starting with an ILF recurve in barebow style (no sights, no stabilizers, no clicker) in early January (about nine or ten weeks ago), I shot a 247 with 13 x's last week in inddor target league competition (FITA and NFAA) at the local Club. If I can finally find the right arrow (spine, length, arrow weight, point weight), I hope to catch up to my two shooting buddies who are at 270 +/- 5 each week. I love the challenge of figuring out recurve. My form, shot cycle, and release is getting consistent now.

Michigan Dave

SF Premium, now Forged Plus, Riser, 25 inches, with two 12 oz limb weights (will fit thru the 4+ inch ring)
SF Premium Limbs, medium, 30 #
inexpensive Easton xx75 arrows, while I find the right arrow and point weight to shoot consistent bulls


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## tandemcpl

I shot a 539 in our state shoot. I struggled on the first round but did pretty good on the second.

Toby


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## jcs-bowhunter

Finally broke 240 tonight, 243


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## Tim Delf

Shoot a 258 on the blue face in target league tonight. I know that in not a big deal, but this is my first year shooting & that is my PB. We have our State shoot this weekend. I hope I can do as well or better there.


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## jogilvie69

Tim Delf said:


> Shoot a 258 on the blue face in target league tonight. I know that in not a big deal, but this is my first year shooting & that is my PB. We have our State shoot this weekend. I hope I can do as well or better there.


Congrats! That's good shooting. If it's a personal best it's a big deal. I remember when I broke 260. It's a huge confidence boost. Good luck at your state shoot.


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## Tim Delf

I shot a 255 at the Iowa Indoor 300 round today. We have one more week of leagues. I hope I can break 260 Thursday night.


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## jcs-bowhunter

Shot another personal best tonight. 246. Only had one arrow in the 2 ring


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## Tim Delf

I shot a 262 in leagues tonight. That is my PB. I guess we still have another week of leagues. Hopefully, next week I can do as well or better to finish out the indoor season.


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## Demmer

Congratulations on the new personal bests guys. 

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## centershot

Nice shooting Tim - shooting a PB at the end of your league means you got better over the course of it. Makes for a great confidence builder heading outside.


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## Tim Delf

Centershot,
Thanks. Shooting in the League was the best thing for me. I believe the first week I shot a 217. Part of that was nerves. There are some good shooters there and they have helped me a lot.


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## centershot

Kudo's to you for actually doing it. I have yet to meet anyone that stuck with it that said he was not better for it in the end.


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## ChefMatt

Still new to nfaa targets, shot a 253 at about a dozen yards yesterday for my second ever 300 round. Completely fell apart in the last round, was 7 points behind my avg round so I should've broke 260 which is annoying. Ready to try at 20 to see what happens. 

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## davidflorida

put a springy rest on to play around 


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## lunger 66

David, that's a good looking target!


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## lunger 66

Chefmatt, try treating every arrow as the match. I am a beginner at archery, but know how to compete, and be tough mentally. I have 9 yrs experience in cowboy action shooting, and have several state, one regional, and a Western Divisionals title. Most shooters shoot a 12 stage match at the larger shoots. I shoot one stage 12 times. It's way easier doing a good job once for 12 times instead of 12 ends for the match one time. Break it down, it's easier! Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

Been tough shooting this Indoor season as only got 3 tourneys in and no real practice , been working away from home 10 days at a time (very tough build project on an island), got back 2am Sat morning after a hard Thursday/Friday lifting 13m floor and Roof beams for day an half, shot National Indoors starting at 1pm Sat and surprised that I managed to win with okay score, 267 300 round and 247 on the Flint round, I was physically/mentally exhausted and my arms still felt like jelly. I went with no expectations which at least gave me a fun attitude with no real pressure.

I normally shoot 38# for Indoors but as I've really done nothing this season I stuck with my 42# Field/3D setup, scores weren't really that far off, maybe I'll shoot this setup all through next indoor season.


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## FLlongshot

Good shooting David!


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## Demmer

Not bad shooting Steve. 

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## centershot

First 300 round I have shot in about a year and a half and the first one with the new Satori. Shooting off the shelf, no stabilizer, GT Entrada 700's
262 14X. Started off good with a 93, but then slipped with a 85 and 84 on the second 2 rounds. I could feel the fatigue set in and my second and third games were not nearly as strong. Here's a pic of the Satori and a 3X 25. (Target was just one hanging at the shop. I shot 3 or 4 - 3's but nothing outside of the 3 ring and all scores were 20 or better)


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## lunger 66

Wow!!!!! Great looking target! I can squeak 3 arrows in the white at times, but that's about it so far. Lunger


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## grantmac

Decided to shoot one of these as a baseline for some new form stuff I'm figuring out. It's been at least 4 years since I shot the NFAA target so not really expecting much.
247-10x


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## lunger 66

That's a great baseline! My wife had a couple hundred of these targets shipped to us. I'll be shooting at this target a lot now. Lol!!!!


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## davidflorida

250 eluding me 


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## davidflorida

centershot - like ridding a bike for you . good shooting .


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## lunger 66

You did better on the second half! Pretty symmetrical group! Lunger


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## centershot

davidflorida said:


> centershot - like ridding a bike for you . good shooting .


Thanks David, I like that analogy (I do ride my Mountain bike about 1,500 miles each year also!) - once you know what to do, what it feels like then all you have to do is have the discipline and physical ability to apply it (that's where I have a problem, I know what to do but sometimes the demons win. lol). 


BTW: Your targets look very good. Everything is nice and centered around the bull's eye, just like it should be. Not sure how long you have been doing this but 250 is just that 2 and a couple 3's in the 4 or 5 ring instead. Make sure to take your time, shoot each shot like it's the only one you will get today and add them up at the end - don't get ahead of yourself by scoring before you have shot the arrow.


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## davidflorida

Cent -wish I had the bike last weekend . Did 18 miles fri and Saturday looking for birds. Real dry except for the gator holes.







found this lower jaw near one . I have a 10 footers head and this lower jaw was 3 inches bigger . Must of been a big one .







my son sucking water out of a cool lil hole ,







lil snake . Will see how it goes tomorrow. Shoot straight guys .


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## Tim Delf

Shot a 259 my last night of Target League. I enjoyed shooting in the League and I know it will help my 3D shooting.


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## Stephen Morley

Training with my friend he's going to European Indoors next week, we shot round straight off with no warm up, 285, 3 x 25 on last three ends.


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## lunger 66

Outstanding! !!!!! Hard to imagine just yet. So far I've done a 240, 243, and 240 again yesterday. Every now and again i'll flinch one off in the 1, or 2 ring with a super rough release. Maybe 3 times out of the 60 shots. The rest are usually in the 4 to 5 ring, with only a few in the 3 ring. Its tough to remain focused for the full time for sure. Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

I'll add I'm Stringwalking so 280's is respectable,


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## lunger 66

That's super respectable! From what little I know, I think if you can shoot that well string walking, or fixed crawl, a guy could probably shoot just as well with finger touching the nock. If you played with arrow length, tip weight, draw weight, ect...... 280s are awesome! I haven't shot my first 25 yet, but got a 24 yesterday for the first time. I'll keep after it, and try to catch up with you guys further down the road. Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

I did try the heavy arrow and light limb route when I shot 3 under, it didn't really work out for me, I was low 260's, with Longbow Split finger and woodies I was mid 240's in competition.

The light arrow and SW seem the most confident inspiring shooting method for me, I don't even go light with limbs, just shot my 42# K7's that I normally use for Field/3D.


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## Demmer

A very heavy arrow is hard to pull off at times, but can be very accurate. I put five tournament scores of 290,291,291,283,291 with an arrow 139fps 800 grains. Not my best or favorite setup, but it was no stringwalking legal and that's the class I chose to shoot in. I would still rather stringwalk if giving the chance since my arrows would be quite a bit faster and easier to control up and downs. 

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## grantmac

My best scores have historically been with the very heavy arrow approach. However I'm trying a much higher anchor and moderate arrow weight. 
It's an interesting trade off since the higher anchor is a little harder to execute BUT the arrows aren't as effected.

For reference the anchor is a little higher than Demmer but not full on Martin 
More like a Eagleton/Wesbrock


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## centershot

My anchor is a little lower than I would like, but every time I try to raise it, I just don't feel comfortable and end up back where I started. At this point I have shot with the same gap for so long it really is not the focus of my shot routine. Could also be part of the reason why I shoot in the 260's and not the 280's also. 

It's kind of a shame that there is a rule about touching the nock and/or stringwalking. I think a fixed gap would provide most guys with an accuracy increase. Being how we typically shoot scores that Youth compound shooters regularly smoke, any accuracy increase should be welcomed.


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## lunger 66

Installed 175 gr points on my 30 inch 500 spine carbon arrows, placed index finger against the nock, and shot a 250 for the first time ever a half hr ago!!!!!! My arrows were hitting about 5 inches high with my 35lb ghetto bow, but flew pretty good. I'm getting a better feel, and more confidence now, but need to keep working on my bow arm position, and release. So exited right now!!!!!! Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

lunger 66 said:


> So exited right now!!!!!! Lunger


It becomes very addictive when you start to see improvement


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## centershot

265 13X (89, 87, 89) NFAA Trad Legal with Satori last night. Added a heavy little 4" stabilizer, really like how it took the small tip back at the shot away. Not really long enough to get much 'stabilizer' effect from but I like it. I have also added a 6 arrow Hoyt 2 piece quiver. It is getting pretty heavy at 5# all loaded up. Really liking this bow - I think the lightweight arrows (325gr) are a little touchy and not exactly what one would want for a dedicated indoor rig shooting 175 fps with a 22" gap but seems to stack them in there when I do my part.


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## lunger 66

Does the added weight of the quiver help you steady the bow? I've been debating whether to put one on my hunting bow or not. Great shooting! Lunger


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## grantmac

Creatively mounted quivers were pretty standard before the stabilizer rule was created.


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## centershot

lunger 66 said:


> Does the added weight of the quiver help you steady the bow? I've been debating whether to put one on my hunting bow or not. Great shooting! Lunger


Well maybe. On a very lightweight bow, like a one piece longbow, it can have more of an effect. On this bow (most bows) it adds weight that is in not the optimal spot. It takes a little time to get used to the weight on the side of the bow and definitely rotate to the quiver side on the shot. When next winter leagues roll around I will take it off and use my hip quiver. But I have yet to find a better, quicker, handier - more efficient way to carry arrows in the field so I go with a bow mount quiver.


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## lunger 66

Thanks for the info! I'm looking for a quiver for my hunting bow. I'll start another thread for that. Lunger


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## grantmac

Shot league tonight.

Had a rough start with lots of nose contact and also destroyed on of the 5 fletched arrows I brought during practice. Got the nose thing figured out (bandaid plus stance adjustment) and decided to just use a bareshaft.
Had some rather poor ends buy finished with a 253-8× and I would say the bareshaft cost me a few in there. Overall not bad and I feel motivated to give it a solid try next year.


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## Stephen Morley

IFAA Worlds in Romania, BB Timo Leskinen opening with an awesome 290, maybe he can beat his own WR as he shot a 297 twice in Finnish Nationals.


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## centershot

266 13x Last night. Started off great with a 95, then slipped to an 87 and ended with an 84. Pretty easy to tell when I get fatigued, maybe I need to shoot more than once a week.....Shooting Trad legal, off the shelf with my 35# Satori & lightweight carbon arrows. I did manage back to back 25's in the first game.


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## lunger 66

Great shooting, Center!!! What does the 95, 87, and 84 mean? I shot a 273 about a week ago, and shot my first 25 ever, and another later on, a few ends later. Tried another day before yesterday, and ended up with a 262 with no 25 point ends. Did manage several 24s though. My left arm is pretty solid now, but my release hand is plucking some of the time, and i've developed a flinch lifting my head at times. Right side of my beak is barked up from the bottom nocking point. Lol!!!! Lunger


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## lunger 66

Grantmac is punishing the rest of us, shooting great scores with no fletching....... Lmao! !!!!!!!! Lunger


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## kegan

Shot a half round the other day in my yard, 124. Nothing to write home about but it was with a new 56" short bow I built for hunting. It's 42# at 31". My regular scores with longer bows aren't often much more than that and this winter my indoor 600 round scores were very up and down... mostly down. The group in the picture was from 40 yards. I rarely shoot that well with ANY bow.


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## lunger 66

Wow!!!! Nice group, and good looking bow too!!!! I haven't shot beyond 25 yards yet, but soon. Lunger


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## centershot

95, 87 and 84 are the scores for the individual games. Each 5 arrows is a set or end, 4 sets of 5 arrows is a game (20 arrows each) and 3 games (60 arrows total) make up a match or round. I think I remembered that correctly! If you are hanging around in the 260's - 270's range then that is fine shooting. 270's would likely put you in the top 20% of all trad shooters. Start scratching 280's and you are in rare company. 

This fall after hunting is over I will probably tweak my rig to shoot about 32-33#, shoot off a rest with a plunger and most likely shoot full length 2013's. With my other bows, using that combination, I usually get about a 10" gap at 20 yards and still shoot with enough speed that minor draw length discrepancies are masked. If the shooter does his part I hope to hang around in the 270's and maybe bump into the 280's once in a while.


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## lunger 66

Thanks for explaining that to me Center, i'll dig for the scratch paper I wrote on, for my last 262 score and see what happened. I was just measuring a blue face target, and thinking about your gap. I'm betting that if you can have a smaller gap, your scores will go up. If you could at least be holding in the target a bit, it'd help. I'm holding one ring into the blue currently, and think it's easier than what you're up against. Lunger


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## Demmer

If your form is good, speed should actually have next to no effect. I lowered my anchor for field last year which made my no stringwalking indoor classes a bugger. Finally got point on for nfaa stuff while shooting 139fps. Lol 
Shot my second highest off the shelf fita score with the same speed this year at states. Ild Rather shoot slow and get PO than 175fps and have a 4" gap. I will also sacrifice tune to do so too. 

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## Demmer

How's that for a nock height? Lol. 

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## jogilvie69

I've got my knock point up there a little but nowhere near that. Lol


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## centershot

lunger 66 said:


> Thanks for explaining that to me Center, i'll dig for the scratch paper I wrote on, for my last 262 score and see what happened. I was just measuring a blue face target, and thinking about your gap. I'm betting that if you can have a smaller gap, your scores will go up. If you could at least be holding in the target a bit, it'd help. I'm holding one ring into the blue currently, and think it's easier than what you're up against. Lunger


The smaller gaps would be (are) beneficial indoors but I don't care for it at longer outdoor ranges. I find it easier to hold under rather than look through the arrow. Heavy slow arrows historically lost me more points than I gained with them. I tend to get low shots towards the end of a round when I get a little tired or make a weak shot. (form issue I know, but it happens) so I like a little speed ~150-160 seems good for me indoors, ~175 is where my outdoor stuff usually ends up. No doubt that my 22" gap @ 20 yards leaves plenty of room for error at closer ranges and is not optimal indoors, but I'm point on at 35 which works nice for the 'long range novelty shoots' (also known as 3D's) around here. Always compromises.


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## lunger 66

Been in a bit of a rut lately, and shot 3 indoor rounds for today. The first was a 254 10x. This agitated me because i've been living between low 250s, and 262. I did a second 300 round, and got a 260 9x, rested awhile and shot a 264 16x. My best was a 273, a couple weeks ago or so, and now haven't got past 264, which i've done about an hr ago. I hate hitting the 3 ring! When I do shoot a poor shot, it's almost always low. The windage looks pretty decent anymore. Lunger


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## centershot

Pull, pull, pull, keep pulling - those low shots are usually from holding too long and collapsing slightly. Shot a Vegas 450 round last night 352/450 - think I had 3 shots in the blue (same as shooting a 3). They are frustrating to be sure. But hey if this was easy it would not be so entertaining.


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## lunger 66

I think you're exactly right Center. If it was easy, everyone would be good at it! Lol!!!!! Going to take a hard look at my release, and draw length today. I'm computer illiterate, and need to learn to post a pic or vid on the forum. Lunger


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## bgbowhunter

I'm chomping at the but to do some nfaa shots. Gotta figure out how to tune a 30# pse pos razorback ghetto bow


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## bahamaguy

Ugh. This thread hurts me every day. My highest ever is a 213. My average 200.

Now, I do live in a country with no archery ranges, no coaches, and no one to shoot with, 100% self 'taught. So I'm not too unhappy with my score. Sometimes. Maybe.

But... if any of you guys ever make it to the Bahamas, please let me know - I'd love some help!


Bahamas. Hoyt Dorado. Stupid long draw length.


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## lunger 66

Bqbowhunter, that's hilarious! Thanks for the help today about the video stuff, it'll take me awhile. My ghetto bow at 35lbs really likes a 500 carbon, at 30 inches long, with a 175gr tip screwed onto it. Nock point is 5/8 high, with a brace height of 8.125 inches. 35lb 62 inch, razorback. Oh, I'm using a flipper rest on it also, with a stabilizer. Your 30lb would probably shoot good with a 600 spine arrow and the right tip weight, i'd guess. If your draw length is long enough, you might even shoot the stiffer arrow pretty good. My draw length is 28 inches, but shoot a 30 inch arrow. Lunger


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## lunger 66

Bahama, stay on this forum. These guys will help you! I'm in the same boat, and live in the center of nowhere. The nearest towns are small too, so this website is your friend along with some youtube. Lunger i'm getting help all the time from these guys!


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## bgbowhunter

lunger 66 said:


> Bqbowhunter, that's hilarious! Thanks for the help today about the video stuff, it'll take me awhile. My ghetto bow at 35lbs really likes a 500 carbon, at 30 inches long, with a 175gr tip screwed onto it. Nock point is 5/8 high, with a brace height of 8.125 inches. 35lb 62 inch, razorback. Oh, I'm using a flipper rest on it also, with a stabilizer. Your 30lb would probably shoot good with a 600 spine arrow and the right tip weight, i'd guess. If your draw length is long enough, you might even shoot the stiffer arrow pretty good. My draw length is 28 inches, but shoot a 30 inch arrow. Lunger


no problem. I can probably help more with the video if you want. Are you running a plunger with the flipper rest? I have a nap center rest and its horrible. It puts my arrow outside of center.


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## lunger 66

Just a flipper rest 2 stuck to the bow with no plunger. It came with thicker pad, but I couldn't use it, or I would have been hitting too far left. Taped it in place with masking tape, nocked an arrow and looked beforehand. I use a plunger on my Hoyt horizon, but believe it or not, I can group almost as good with the ghetto bow. Viper was right telling me to shoot it awhile. Lunger 509 288 0102


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## lunger 66

Ok, finally got back to my personal best today, at 273 with18x. Got a good jump in scoring by drawing a deep breath in, because it set my shoulders back and down. The next thing that really helped halfway through this round was turning my torso slightly to the right. I'm right handed. I've know idea why this helped, but it did, and by a significant amout! The ends looked like this......24, 25, 18, 22 24, 22, 22, 20 23, 25, 24, 24. I got a 273 once before, but this time was more of an accomplishment, because I'm starting to finally learn what it takes to make"a better shot". Lunger


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## centershot

Kisik Lee teaches the torso twist. It adds tension and stability to your core. Good shooting, any score in the 270 range means you have some things figured out.


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## lunger 66

I had a couple wild shots to the left, and didn't know why. When I twisted slightly right, the bow arm and shoulder looked to be more in line, and I started shooting better ends. I think it might be that my stance was a little too much towards the target, and twisting helped me get in line. Lol!!!!! I remember reading shooting the stick bow, and Viper said your boot heels should be inline with the target. I looked down, and i'm not standing like that. I probably compensated by twisting. That's my best guess anyway. Lunger


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## centershot

Kisik Lee is the USA Olympic coach. The torso twist thing is an advanced technique - but does work for us weekend hackers also. Not really worth messing with until you get very serious about your shooting. For advanced shooters the book "Archery" by USA Archery has a section written by Kisik Lee. Interesting read, difficult to understand as a beginner but makes more sense as you get better.


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## ChefMatt

centershot said:


> Kisik Lee is the USA Olympic coach. The torso twist thing is an advanced technique - but does work for us weekend hackers also. Not really worth messing with until you get very serious about your shooting. For advanced shooters the book "Archery" by USA Archery has a section written by Kisik Lee. Interesting read, difficult to understand as a beginner but makes more sense as you get better.


How would you recommend training in such a way that you can work towards ksl without messing yourself up by constantly changing things? Is there something of an intermediate style, so to speak? Thinking of Arne's teaching, as he explains it so well? 

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## centershot

There is a fantastic BEST video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTFHHgLKCA0&feature=youtu.be Goes into shot setup a bunch, but has some great info. It's a few years old (Brady looks pretty young) but the information is timeless. Worth a look. As with any changes made to your shot, do them one at a time over time - see what works for you.


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## lunger 66

Set a new record today at 280/20x!!!!! Was going to shoot a 5 shot warmup, then the 60 arrows, but nearly shot a 25 on the first 5 arrows, so I just shot 60 for score. 24, 23, 24, 24 23, 24, 25, 24 22, 24, 21, 22. I got a little nervous on my last 4 ends, actually, really nervous! Lunger


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## ChefMatt

lunger 66 said:


> Set a new record today at 280/20x!!!!! Was going to shoot a 5 shot warmup, then the 60 arrows, but nearly shot a 25 on the first 5 arrows, so I just shot 60 for score. 24, 23, 24, 24 23, 24, 25, 24 22, 24, 21, 22. I got a little nervous on my last 4 ends, actually, really nervous! Lunger


Nicely done dude, that is seriously impressive. 

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## lunger 66

Thanks chefmatt, i've been working really hard at this. It was a super weird feeling shooting today. The first 8 ends were really easy. I wasn't working hard for any of it, but when I shot my last 4 ends, I was spooked. It was suddenly hard for me to make a decent shot. Just my nerves, because I knew I was doing maybe a little too good, at least for me anyway. Lol!!!! One shot hit the 3 ring, but the rest were in the 4, and 5 ring. I took a pic of the target, but can't post it on the forum yet. Lunger


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## jogilvie69

lunger 66 said:


> Set a new record today at 280/20x!!!!! Was going to shoot a 5 shot warmup, then the 60 arrows, but nearly shot a 25 on the first 5 arrows, so I just shot 60 for score. 24, 23, 24, 24 23, 24, 25, 24 22, 24, 21, 22. I got a little nervous on my last 4 ends, actually, really nervous! Lunger


Congrats! That's really good shooting!


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## lunger 66

Thanks guys, I wish everytime I shot, it was this easy! The white bullseye looked easy to hit, and big, for the first 8 ends. One of the rare times that my head was really focused. I've learned a ton on this forum by talking to some of the folks, and reading present, and past threads. Very thankful for all the help i've received on here guys! Lunger


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## centershot

Very nice - cracking 280 NFAA trad legal is very difficult. I have only done it once. My round was not so pretty last night 258 - made the mistake of tweaking my setup and form during a round........better to get that sorted, then shoot for score.


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## lunger 66

I doubt that I can maintain a 280 Trent, but think I can shoot a 270s score pretty often. You're not the only guy to change something in the middle of a shoot. I personally know a guy that does that kinda stuff all the time. Lol!!!!! I figure even though you messed your score up by 15, or20 points, you at least learned what WON'T work. Are you trying to bring your gap down? I remember you saying you had a huge gap, the way you're set up. I'm still at a 5, or 6 inch gap under the white. Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

Congrats, indoor rounds are tough on the ego, it lays bare your Form and mental game for all to see and a lot of archers struggle with this idea. Don't stop trying to.


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## centershot

lunger 66 said:


> I doubt that I can maintain a 280 Trent, but think I can shoot a 270s score pretty often. You're not the only guy to change something in the middle of a shoot. I personally know a guy that does that kinda stuff all the time. Lol!!!!! I figure even though you messed your score up by 15, or20 points, you at least learned what WON'T work. Are you trying to bring your gap down? I remember you saying you had a huge gap, the way you're set up. I'm still at a 5, or 6 inch gap under the white. Lunger


Was shooting from a rest instead of off the shelf and could not find my nock location to get the old gaps back. Kept shooting high. Ended up going back to shooting off the shelf. I'm not too concerned about my gaps currently - they work good for longer shooting outdoors (if the rain and wind will give me a chance)


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## mrjeffro

280 is a major milestone. Congrats!! I have hit low 280's a couple times but averaging that score is another story  

Your scores have increased a lot in a short period of time. Nice work!


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## rembrandt

mrjeffro said:


> 280 is a major milestone. Congrats!! I have hit low 280's a couple times but averaging that score is another story
> 
> Your scores have increased a lot in a short period of time. Nice work!


After laying off a year and half due to bow arm shoulder in pain, I have started up again and I'm keeping the scores over 200.....I shot a 207 the other day and I guess I got a little tired because the last 3 ends were 13, 14 and then a 19.....I had 11 Xs so that was encouraging


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## rembrandt

I hope to get back up the ladder to 240 plus which I was averaging before the shoulder pain.....It will take some work however.....


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## lunger 66

Rembrandt, with your x count that high, you're going to bounce right back. Good job!!!! Thanks for all the kind words guys, but most of all, thanks for all the help you've given me on this forum! I'm not self made, and it was the help YOU guys have given me, to get me to this point. I still have vertical in my groups, and it even showed up in my 60 shot group that scored 280. I'm going to try to email it to viper, and see what he thinks about it. I'm not sharp enough to get the pic from my phone to this forum. A text is about all I can do. Thanks again, Lunger


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## lunger 66

You'll probably do better than that real soon Rembrandt. My x count was about like yours at 250 or 260. You're going to get a huge jump soon. Lunger


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## bgbowhunter

what is the exact classification for your setup? Is this considered Barebow?


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## lunger 66

I don't know for certain, Mike. Hoyt horizon with hoyt super rest and plunger, 11 inch stabilizer, 32lb med limbs, no sights. It's a 68 inch bow, and that's about it. Lunger


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## lunger 66

Using finger release, 3 under, with top finger just touching the arrow nock. Maybe somebody will answer your question about what this would be legal in.


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## lunger 66

Almost forgot, someone told me that a sling is ok, and another person told me that it wouldn't be legal for indoor league, so I don't use a bow sling of any kind because I'd like to shoot at an indoor league sometime. Lunger


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## grantmac

That would be NFAA trad and a sling is perfectly fine.


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## Stephen Morley

Don't know about NFAA but IFAA you can use full stab setup, clicker and Stringwalk but most of the guys I know shoot WA also so just have normal BB weights and SW.


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## lunger 66

Well crap! I'm putting a sling on it then. I'm betting the scores would improve a little with a sling. Lunger


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## centershot

bgbowhunter said:


> what is the exact classification for your setup? Is this considered Barebow?


lunger is shooting NFAA Traditional legal. 12" stabilizer, raised rest, 3-under (touching nock), sling are all ok. Stringwalking and or clickers is when the classification switches to barebow.


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## moog5050

264 15x this morning. First time scoring in a long time. Way too many 3s. I think I had 15 3s. Kills the score.


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## lunger 66

Moog, you're used to shooting higher scores. I can tell, because of your high x count. At the level you are used to shooting, what causes the 3 ring hits? I'd like to know ahead of time, and maybe avoid some trouble in the future, especially now that I'm working some again now that things have finally started drying some. Thanks, Lunger


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## mrjeffro

For the past week I have been trying my new Jager high wrist grip. The last few years the only grip I had on my Spig BB was a Jager low grip. Much different feel. Not sure if I am gaining anything by switching, was just curious. Shot a 278 today with new grip. Will give it a few weeks and compare old scores with low grip.


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> Moog, you're used to shooting higher scores. I can tell, because of your high x count. At the level you are used to shooting, what causes the 3 ring hits? I'd like to know ahead of time, and maybe avoid some trouble in the future, especially now that I'm working some again now that things have finally started drying some. Thanks, Lunger


I wish I knew Lunger. My best is only 272 or 273 (I honestly forget. It was last year.). Low 260s is typical for me. I do know that if that 4 ring was a 1/2" bigger, I might have beaten my best today. Lol. But it's not. They were close 3s if that makes sense. I practice to hunt not to compete so I am generally happy if I have no fliers. Use my hunting rig. I don't get too uptight about x count. 4 ring is a dead critter. White is a heart shot I plan to try shooting a score at 30yds to see where I stand. It's about my limit for hunting at this point. 

Your scores are great for just starting. Been shooting trad for a little over 2 years and I seem to have hit that wall where improvements are slow coming. I would just keep doing what you do and try to refine. I have decided to stop fiddling with anchor etc and just to to perfect my current form. I usually go off trying some major change only to find it screws me up and then it takes a while to settle back in to what has worked ok for me.


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## moog5050

mrjeffro said:


> For the past week I have been trying my new Jager high wrist grip. The last few years the only grip I had on my Spig BB was a Jager low grip. Much different feel. Not sure if I am gaining anything by switching, was just curious. Shot a 278 today with new grip. Will give it a few weeks and compare old scores with low grip.


Very good shooting. You will laugh, I tried stringwalking again last night. After another bloody nose, I think I have given it up for good. Can't figure out why I can't avoid the bloody massacre. I think it's because I anchor low and my crawl pretty much puts nock right at the height of my nose.


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## mrjeffro

moog5050 said:


> Very good shooting. You will laugh, I tried stringwalking again last night. After another bloody nose, I think I have given it up for good. Can't figure out why I can't avoid the bloody massacre. I think it's because I anchor low and my crawl pretty much puts nock right at the height of my nose.


Lol. Thanks Bud. For my indoor bow I use a heavy arrow w/ 275 grains up front to give me a 20 yard point-on. 

No issues string walking my CH but I have a pretty high anchor. Ever try high anchor?


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## moog5050

mrjeffro said:


> moog5050 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very good shooting. You will laugh, I tried stringwalking again last night. After another bloody nose, I think I have given it up for good. Can't figure out why I can't avoid the bloody massacre. I think it's because I anchor low and my crawl pretty much puts nock right at the height of my nose.
> 
> 
> 
> I have tried and tried and tried. It usually messes me up for a while. I anchor middle finger almost middle of indent between chin and lower lip (just on my lower gum line). Sounds silly but I also slightly bite on the tip of my tongue to ensure lower jaw is in the same place. When I go higher, I have to anchor more to the side of my face and my accuracy goes to pot. I can't get my eye over the arrow. I just can't figure it out. What I do works fine for hunting but I have to gap off the sight window with such a low anchor. No point on the target means I may never shoot much higher on the NFAA.
Click to expand...


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## lunger 66

I'm new so take this with a grain of salt, but if you're that anal about your anchor/release hand. Look hard at that bow arm and shoulder. Oh, and stance, because it helps line all that up. I focus super hard on alignment, and it's really helped me, but on the other hand, my groups are vertical, even my good ones! I typically shoot my first arrow low, unless I compensate for it. I also have high shots too. The high ones may be from over expansion, but I don't know yet, and I have a couple friends trying to help me out. I wish I could post my last group on here, but i'm too dumb. I can only text the pic thus far. That 280 I squeaked out has a vertical pattern, that's plain to see. The BIGGEST jump I ever got was a bow arm that won't move during firing. I may have some vertical, but the left and right part of it is really good. Lunger you can obviously shoot, or your x count wouldn't be that high!!!!!


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## lunger 66

Moog, I soooo hear you about the 4 ring being a few thousandths further across! What makes me wild, is shooting a GREAT group, only to find out it's barely in the wrong portion of the nfaa target! Lunger


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> Moog, I soooo hear you about the 4 ring being a few thousandths further across! What makes me wild, is shooting a GREAT group, only to find out it's barely in the wrong portion of the nfaa target! Lunger


It happens. Part of shoot barebow especially without a point on the target. It's visual estimation at best for me. That's ok though. The 4 deer last year never complained. Lol


----------



## marcelxl

I thought I'd get on this game as I fight back from (and still occasionally have) some form issues!

Built me a target stand at 20yds from my deck and got some faces at the weekend.

just grabbed my Pinnacle II/Dryad ACS for the first time in weeks. Shot a dozen sighters and then scored a 216.

Promised myself one a day for the next 3 weeks and see where it takes me…….really enjoyed it once I settled into it and looking forwards to tomorrow now, weird thing was I was even feeling a little nervous for a while!

I did used to enjoy the winter indoor portsmouth rounds back in the UK


----------



## marcelxl

marcelxl said:


> I thought I'd get on this game as I fight back from (and still occasionally have) some form issues!
> 
> Built me a target stand at 20yds from my deck and got some faces at the weekend.
> 
> just grabbed my Pinnacle II/Dryad ACS for the first time in weeks. Shot a dozen sighters and then scored a 216.
> 
> Promised myself one a day for the next 3 weeks and see where it takes me…….really enjoyed it once I settled into it and looking forwards to tomorrow now, weird thing was I was even feeling a little nervous for a while!
> 
> I did used to enjoy the winter indoor portsmouth rounds back in the UK


Scrub that last one……. I realised I only did 10 ends of 5 last night and not 12 (that is right?) So if I was to accept the 21.6/end I could have ended up in the 259 area which I am happy with!

Tonight I scored it 251 with a maddening period in the middle with some high shots into the 3's and things are just starting to warm up here so the skeeters decided to wake up too so I'll take that too!


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## lunger 66

Sounds like you're doing great. Keep it up! Lunger


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## centershot

256 - 86,85,85 last night. Took everything off, no stabilizer, no quiver and shot off the shelf w/ carbon arrow from my 35# Satori. Shot pretty good, nice target with holes centered, lots of arrows just out of the white, a few 3's. I'm a believer that a stabilizer is good for a few points, but it sure feels right without one.


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## lunger 66

Do you use a plunger shooting off the shelf, or jus furniture pad material, or something like it? Lunger


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## moog5050

Satori comes with a cool adjustable side plate and ret


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## lunger 66

Seems to me that the plunger button, and the stab is the reason a target bow will outdo the hunting bows. What do you guys think?


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## centershot

lunger 66 said:


> Do you use a plunger shooting off the shelf, or jus furniture pad material, or something like it? Lunger


Off the shelf with the stock strike plate. The piece on the shelf is just velcro, the side plate is a formed piece of plastic with a calf hide cover. It has a stud that sticks in the plunger hole and a screw that secures it from the outside. It comes with several shims to adjust it in and out. Pretty neat idea - not as adjustable or forgiving as a plunger but quick and easy to set up - about bulletproof.


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## centershot

lunger 66 said:


> Seems to me that the plunger button, and the stab is the reason a target bow will outdo the hunting bows. What do you guys think?


It all helps. I would say a manageable weight for the entire round bow is a must. Stabilizer seems to be good for 5-10 points, rest and plunger 4-5 points, long/heavy arrows 5-10 points. It all adds up, the shooter still has to be up to the task but I think there is 15-25 points to be had with a dedicated setup.


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## lunger 66

Makes sense, Trent. Thanks


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## lunger 66

Ok, shot my very first300 round with my 45lb longbow on the blueface target. It scored 212 4x, and I'm pretty frustrated. If I could move the whole 60 shot group down 4 inches, the score would have been way better. I'm not really sure if I want to be a longbow shooter, because I can do so much better with a recurve in my hand. Its fun to shoot the longbow, but i'd feel a lot more comfortable hunting deer with any one of my recurves. The 212 is a decent starting point for a newer shooter, but i'm not sure if I want to stay with it seriously. Lancaster says my hunting riser will arrive tomorrow, so I can do some further testing soon, at hunting weights with a recurve. Lunger


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## bahamaguy

Nothing like most of you guys, but I got my own PB of 228 tonight, 6x's. (Dorado off shelf)

The bit that made me happiest was my horizontal deviation from center has dropped significantly since really battening down and working on form. 

Only upside of clock changes - I get to shoot on evenings!


Bahamas. Hoyt Dorado. Stupid long draw length.


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## moog5050

bahamaguy said:


> Nothing like most of you guys, but I got my own PB of 228 tonight, 6x's. (Dorado off shelf)
> 
> The bit that made me happiest was my horizontal deviation from center has dropped significantly since really battening down and working on form.
> 
> Only upside of clock changes - I get to shoot on evenings!
> 
> 
> Bahamas. Hoyt Dorado. Stupid long draw length.


Good shooting!


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## lunger 66

Keep it up! Not as hard as you think. I think it was Grant that said it's about getting control of the bad ones that will run your score up. He was right. Lunger


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## kenn1320

lunger 66 said:


> Seems to me that the plunger button, and the stab is the reason a target bow will outdo the hunting bows. What do you guys think?


I havent shot the game much, but the few times this year Ill share my experience.

25" wood riser, 12" stab, rest, plunger
271 nfaa 
279 fita

21" phenolic riser off the shelf, no stab(hunting bow)
245 fita (calculated 125 nfaa half)

To be fair the 25" setup has a great point on, while the hunting bow is bottom of the paper. Scores were shot with target at top or bottom, then switched at halfway point. If your not moving your target, that can be a few points when your at a tournament. In my opinion a stab and rest help hide form imperfections. I suspect though that as mentioned earlier, were not talking a lot of points. It really depends on the person and their form issues. My biggest improvement was finding the right arrows.


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## moog5050

kenn1320 said:


> I havent shot the game much, but the few times this year Ill share my experience.
> 
> 25" wood riser, 12" stab, rest, plunger
> 271 nfaa
> 279 fita
> 
> 21" phenolic riser off the shelf, no stab(hunting bow)
> 245 fita (calculated 125 nfaa half)
> 
> To be fair the 25" setup has a great point on, while the hunting bow is bottom of the paper. Scores were shot with target at top or bottom, then switched at halfway point. If your not moving your target, that can be a few points when your at a tournament. In my opinion a stab and rest help hide form imperfections. I suspect though that as mentioned earlier, were not talking a lot of points. It really depends on the person and their form issues. My biggest improvement was finding the right arrows.


Good shooting Kenn! I am sure point can help, but since I only shoot scores to practice for hunting, I shoot the bow as I will hunt with it. Now if I ever got the fever to compete, I might rethink that.


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## kenn1320

moog5050 said:


> Good shooting Kenn! I am sure point can help, but since I only shoot scores to practice for hunting, I shoot the bow as I will hunt with it. Now if I ever got the fever to compete, I might rethink that.


Thanks mooq. My point was that aiming reference also is a factor in scores, so take that into consideration when looking at the results. Also one time with that bow does not show a trend either. Ive only shot the indoor games 5 times this year, mostly testing things. As an example I shot a 256 and 257 back to back testing 2 different spine/point weight combos and both eyes open. I didn't include those in the above scores, since I like to close one eye. It showed both arrows score equally and that closing one eye can be worth almost 20pnts for me.


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## marcelxl

kenn1320 said:


> Thanks mooq. My point was that aiming reference also is a factor in scores, so take that into consideration when looking at the results. Also one time with that bow does not show a trend either. Ive only shot the indoor games 5 times this year, mostly testing things. As an example I shot a 256 and 257 back to back testing 2 different spine/point weight combos and both eyes open. I didn't include those in the above scores, since I like to close one eye. It showed both arrows score equally and that closing one eye can be worth almost 20pnts for me.


Thats interesting, I nearly always use both but often squinting or closing the non-dominant to tighten things up but quite conclusive that your score can go up quite significantly……..granted it's controlled and set distance but still!


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## mrjeffro

With a new bow due in about 12 weeks I need to figure out what grip I want. Having always shot a low grip I have been curious how a high grip would feel. Today it felt pretty good  

92-97-93 . 

282


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## lunger 66

That's great shooting! Keep it up! Lunger


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## moog5050

Love that 97. You were on fire!


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## kenn1320

Nice Jeffro


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## Demmer3

Nice!

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## tandemcpl

Great shooting Jeffro.

Toby


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## lunger 66

Well, I backslid 15 points from my last score. Got a 265 this time with only 7x. I was really having a hard time with my release, and caught myself thinking hard on it, rather than just shooting. Lol!!!!! The release is really fighting me. If I focus on pulling through, it'll go high everytime. If I focus on not moving my release hand, it goes low, because my bow arm collapsed a touch. The slightest error becomes inches at 20 yards! On a positive note, just like always, i've only got about 5 inches of left and right spread. The lost points are all vertical!!!! If I ever fix that vertical, I'll b a pretty good shooter. Lol!!!!! Lunger


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## grantmac

Sounds like you are seeing the difference between a dead and dynamic release. Dead releases tend to have more variations in arrow speed which show up at longer distances. Dynamic releases have less speed difference but can be a little harder to maintain a precise anchor.
If you choose to use a dynamic release (which most would recommend) then after anchor generally focusing on the movement of your elbow will keep you from over thinking the release.


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## lunger 66

Just shot a 260 and 10x with the 42lb hunting bow. It kinda makes sense because i've been shooting it most lately. Thanks on the tiller advice Moog. Its a hair negative, and the bow floats a little easier, and its quieter. Also switched to a more limber arrow, and it just groups a little tighter with them, so i'll keep running them now. Lunger


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## lunger 66

That's Grant, i'll go try that as soon as I rest a bit. I always get great advice from you! Lunger


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> Just shot a 260 and 10x with the 42lb hunting bow. It kinda makes sense because i've been shooting it most lately. Thanks on the tiller advice Moog. Its a hair negative, and the bow floats a little easier, and its quieter. Also switched to a more limber arrow, and it just groups a little tighter with them, so i'll keep running them now. Lunger


Good job Mark!


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## moog5050

And stay with the the pull through on release. It will be more consistent in the long run IMO.


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## rembrandt

All these great scores make me ashamed to show how I'm doing but I can count on one hand the number of times I've shot this year.....Anyway, I had a 225 with 7 Xs and I felt pretty good about how I shot....two ends killed me.....a 11 and a 14....with the 11 I had a Zero....but on the good side I had 6 ends in the 20s and 3 of those ends I had 3 arrows in the 5 count.......I liked that......I hope I can get back up to the 240 and 250 range soon.....That's if my shoulder holds up........


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> And stay with the the pull through on release. It will be more consistent in the long run IMO.


That very thing helped me yesterday.....If I relax at anchor, I'm all over the place......also, I broaden my stance to give me a more firm stance and we all should know that we shoot from the ground up.....the combo of the two..."pulling thru the shot" and the firmer stance help me shoot much better......


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## kenn1320

Shot a 254 last night. Had some 3's and 2's, was definitely tired and it showed.


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## lunger 66

That's still a good score, Kenn. Tired or not that's very respectable. Tell us what kind of bow you're shooting, draw weight, ect.
Rembrandt, if half your ends are in the 20s, then you're capable of getting the rest in the 20s! Lol!!!!! Keep it up! Lunger I want to shoot with everyone again, once the rest of my crop is in. Good luck to all!


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> That's still a good score, Kenn. Tired or not that's very respectable. Tell us what kind of bow you're shooting, draw weight, ect.
> Rembrandt, if half your ends are in the 20s, then you're capable of getting the rest in the 20s! Lol!!!!! Keep it up! Lunger I want to shoot with everyone again, once the rest of my crop is in. Good luck to all!


Thanks Lunger 66......if my shoulder holds up I might increase the 20s and the Xs......Hope so anyway.....


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## kenn1320

lunger 66 said:


> That's still a good score, Kenn. Tired or not that's very respectable. Tell us what kind of bow you're shooting, draw weight, ect.
> Rembrandt, if half your ends are in the 20s, then you're capable of getting the rest in the 20s! Lol!!!!! Keep it up! Lunger I want to shoot with everyone again, once the rest of my crop is in. Good luck to all!


Im shooting my 21" riser Border ILF covert hunter with long hex 7.5 limbs([email protected]") shot off the shelf, no stab, but 3 arrow quiver. I hunt/3d/indoor with these limbs. Indoor I prefer my border 25" wood riser with 12" stab and rest/plunger. Since Im wanting to get better with this 21" bow, Im shooting some indoor scores with it.


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## lunger 66

Boy, that's good equipment! !!!! I've been looking at the Border stuff. Great shooting! Lunger


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## kenn1320

lunger 66 said:


> Boy, that's good equipment! !!!! I've been looking at the Border stuff. Great shooting! Lunger


thanks Lunger, your shooting well also.


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## bobschuitema

Well, after a humbling experience last week. Things went much better today. I will give background so that you guys don't think I am full of it. Last week by the time I started my eventual 191 score I had shot At least 100 arrows playing with my anchor. I think I was exhausted from pulling 54lbs for that many shots. Over the last week I have been blank baling for the majority of my shots and really focusing on my form. Today I shot a 2 warm up ends on the blank bail and started a 300 round. I plan to do it every friday but my wife is due to have our third child today so I figured I better get it done while I can. Today I shot a 235 with 6 X's. My worst ends were 3 17's in a row during the middle of the round where I absolutely lost focus. Overall this paper shooting stuff is addictive as hell, and I am looking forward to getting more involved with some of the local shoots.


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## lunger 66

That is awesome! !!!! Nice improvement too!!! Keep it up! Lunger


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## moog5050

New PB today with a 276 with my 19" Border tempest at 49lbs. Pretty excited as I have been trying hard to gain some consistency with a new higher anchor. I had it today at least. Hope it sticks around. Lol. No doubt I was torquing the string before with this anchor but I have been working hard to turn the bottom of my hand in and keep the string vertical. Getting there one day at a time.


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## moog5050

bobschuitema said:


> Well, after a humbling experience last week. Things went much better today. I will give background so that you guys don't think I am full of it. Last week by the time I started my eventual 191 score I had shot At least 100 arrows playing with my anchor. I think I was exhausted from pulling 54lbs for that many shots. Over the last week I have been blank baling for the majority of my shots and really focusing on my form. Today I shot a 2 warm up ends on the blank bail and started a 300 round. I plan to do it every friday but my wife is due to have our third child today so I figured I better get it done while I can. Today I shot a 235 with 6 X's. My worst ends were 3 17's in a row during the middle of the round where I absolutely lost focus. Overall this paper shooting stuff is addictive as hell, and I am looking forward to getting more involved with some of the local shoots.


Great improvement! Stay at it.


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## lunger 66

Brian! You smoked me!!! Lol!!!! I got a 275, 16x a minute ago. I'll come back, and get you next time!!! Lunger


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> Brian! You smoked me!!! Lol!!!! I got a 275, 16x a minute ago. I'll come back, and get you next time!!! Lunger


You are consistently shooting better scores. I got lucky today.


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## davidflorida

. Shot a 242 with my new 19 inch trident 62 inch 45 pound trad tech 2.0 limbs . Off the shelf with quiver attached. Taking a little time to get consistent with this rig but it is coming along slowly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## moog5050

davidflorida said:


> https://uploads.tapatalk
> 
> nice shooting and bow


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## mrjeffro

Great shooting guys!!

Moog, looks like you are getting familiar with your Tempest pretty quickly


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## moog5050

mrjeffro said:


> Great shooting guys!!
> 
> Moog, looks like you are getting familiar with your Tempest pretty quickly


Don't want to admit it, but I am more accurate with it than the CH right now. lol But, its a marathon, not a sprint.


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## mrjeffro

moog5050 said:


> Don't want to admit it, but I am more accurate with it than the CH right now. lol But, its a marathon, not a sprint.


I was going to ask which you shot better. Mine is due within the next few weeks and looking forward to comparing the two


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## lunger 66

Nice looking bow David! !!! 242 is a great place to be, and it's not too far from where you're headed. That bow is set up to hunt, you would have picked up a bunch more points with one set up with a stabilizer, ect. Great job! Lunger


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## davidflorida

yes it is set for hunting , might pick up a excel to set up for target . Have shot on our fita course a couple of times fun stuff but 60 and 80 yard shots are tuff with this rig. Switch to split finger and its not to bad for the longer shots. 3 under for the rest. Lunger you have progressed really fast keep it up .


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## lunger 66

Alright Moog, it's your turn again! Just shot a 277, 17x lol!!!!! 
Note to self......keep shirt away from string! I put 3 arrows low enough to hit the 3 ring, when I was going for real. Target has 65 shots in it, because I didn't like my first 5 arrows. One of the first five smacked the 3 ring also. I'll text u the target pic, Lunger


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## anthrope

lunger 66 said:


> Alright Moog, it's your turn again! Just shot a 277, 17x lol!!!!!
> Note to self......keep shirt away from string! I put 3 arrows low enough to hit the 3 ring, when I was going for real. Target has 65 shots in it, because I didn't like my first 5 arrows. One of the first five smacked the 3 ring also. I'll text u the target pic, Lunger


Lunger, how long have you been shooting? Your scores are fantastic!


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## lunger 66

Since the tail end of February, or the beginning of March, anyway. I'm not self made. Everyone on here has given me tips, and help on nearly a daily basis. I read a few books also, and when I was busy trying to put our crop in, I'd shoot 20 arrows minimum. When I was rained out, i'd shoot most of the day, off and on. I've worked really hard at this about every day. I shoot other stuff, almost daily also. Long range, both black powder cartridge rifle, and with modern equipment, like a 16lb 28 nosler out to a mile, and cowboy action shooting with my wife really regular. That's why my handle is Lunger. Also shot trad a long time ago, but learned all wrong. When I took it up again, everyone held my hand, and sent me down the right path. It's not too hard to get where I am if you listen to everyone, and are willing to give their ideas an honest effort. Some of it didn't help, but a huge amount really did.
Anthrope, I shot that riser you sold to me today, and for some reason it really fits me. Its easy for me to shoot accurately! I have a set of limbs coming, but robbed a set off another bow today, and ran it like I stole it. Lol!!!!!!! I just wanted to say thankyou, Mark


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## anthrope

Lunger, I started traditional a couple of months ago myself. I am nowhere as good as you though. 

That kind of progress over such short course is really impressive. Well, like they say, hard work does pay off. Not to undermine the work you put in, but I cannot help thinking you're a natural at this. 

Barebow demands real perseverance and I've heard of guys who kept at it for years but didn't get any better and just gave up. So, hearing experiences like yours always instills confidence. Do you have any plans to compete?

And about the riser, I'm really glad you liked it and you're most welcome. Sounds like it chose you, enjoy shooting!


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## mrjeffro

Lungers progress, in my opinion, is not normal  . He is shooting in the 270's his first year!! That is incredible. When Centershot first started this thread about 7 years ago is when I made the switch from compound to recurve. It was a rough start. First year couldn't break the 200 mark. Someone posted on this thread way back in the beginning that an average archer should be in the 240's after a year. I guess my 35+ years as a compound archer didn't make me "average" .  I don't think I hit the 240 mark til year 4. Then the increases started coming quicker 

There are a lot of people following this thread. Lots of great advice that is given but the best piece of advice I can give is to be patient. Practice, practice and practice some more. Have fun. If you shoot in the 270's in your first year, you are not normal  ( just kidding Lunger) .


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## lunger 66

You guys are hilarious! Lol!!!!!! There's more help available today than seven yrs ago like anything else. One of the biggest jumps I got was listening to centershot. During our conversation, he told me to watch all utube videos of Jimmy Blackmon I could find. The first one I saw was the one about expansion, and what happens when you collapse during the full draw. I watched that one video a bunch of times coupled with everyone's help on here, then I shoot every day, even when I'm busy.
I tell my wife i'm really special, lol!!!! But the truth is, I'm not. The truth is if I can do it, you probably can too. Ask lots of questions on here, and try everything, and never quit. Don't forget the books out there too, like shooting the stickbow, and become the arrow. Like I said, I got help from about everyone on here. Many times somebody would be answering a question for someone else that pertained to me also. Tony has helped me via text, after looking a target of mine over, and he gave me good solid advice on what to do from here. I'm very thankful for all of you, and the help you all have freely given me! Lunger


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## centershot

Surprising what can happen if you are open minded and willing to try a few new things! As always I highly recommend new shooters get Viper's book "Shooting the Stickbow". Read it, do as the author suggests, build a solid foundation then try some of the other things that get mentioned. A wise man once told me "What we do is simple, but not easy". I wholeheartedly agree.


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## anthrope

mrjeffro said:


> When Centershot first started this thread about 7 years ago is when I made the switch from compound to recurve. It was a rough start. First year couldn't break the 200 mark. Someone posted on this thread way back in the beginning that an average archer should be in the 240's after a year. I guess my 35+ years as a compound archer didn't make me "average" .  I don't think I hit the 240 mark til year 4. Then the increases started coming quicker.
> There are a lot of people following this thread. Lots of great advice that is given but the best piece of advice I can give is to be patient. Practice, practice and practice some more. Have fun. If you shoot in the 270's in your first year, you are not normal  ( just kidding Lunger) .


Thanks for this, mrjeffro. I can relate to your learning curve and I don't feel inadequate anymore! :wink:



centershot said:


> Surprising what can happen if you are open minded and willing to try a few new things! As always I highly recommend new shooters get Viper's book "Shooting the Stickbow". Read it, do as the author suggests, build a solid foundation then try some of the other things that get mentioned. A wise man once told me "What we do is simple, but not easy". I wholeheartedly agree.


Just ordered the book, thanks.


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## lunger 66

I learned on a 55lb herters bow from a guy who couldn't hit a damn thing. Nice guy, but neither one of us knew a thing. He snap shot, and I held it back, and aimed. I out shot him, but would have sprayed arrows all over a blue face target at 20, had I tried it back then. I bought a cheap compound, and shot it a couple yrs, then about a 20 yr gap. Today, with a lighter bow, and everyone's help things are a lot better. Lol!!!!! Alignment is probably the thing that helps me the most, and i'm getting better with it, but I still struggle with a really good release, and it'll give me vertical issues. Lunger


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## lunger 66

Just shot an outdoor hunter league yesterday. It basically was just bullseye targets from 11 yards to 65 yards, and you shot 4 arrows at each target. The whole club shoots compound bows with scopes, and trigger releases, except me and probably 3 other trad shooters. We trad shooters are told to shoot youth distances, when given the option. Basically, when you have a 60 plus yard target, they've provided a youth stake for trad shooters at 50 yards. Anyway, I got through the coarse yesterday with a score of 205, for the 14 targets on the course. I have no idea how i've done compared to the other trad shooters, because we are allowed to just come shoot when your schedule allows. I was shooting with 3 compound shooters at the time. Anyway, we have 4 hunter, and 4 animal shoots to complete, roughly a week between shoots for most, but you're allowed to shoot ahead if needed. Lunger


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## kenn1320

lunger 66 said:


> Just shot an outdoor hunter league yesterday. It basically was just bullseye targets from 11 yards to 65 yards, and you shot 4 arrows at each target. The whole club shoots compound bows with scopes, and trigger releases, except me and probably 3 other trad shooters. We trad shooters are told to shoot youth distances, when given the option. Basically, when you have a 60 plus yard target, they've provided a youth stake for trad shooters at 50 yards. Anyway, I got through the coarse yesterday with a score of 205, for the 14 targets on the course. I have no idea how i've done compared to the other trad shooters, because we are allowed to just come shoot when your schedule allows. I was shooting with 3 compound shooters at the time. Anyway, we have 4 hunter, and 4 animal shoots to complete, roughly a week between shoots for most, but you're allowed to shoot ahead if needed. Lunger


Sounds fun, Ive never shot that. Did you have some practice time to figure out 65y aiming point?

I shot my first 450 round yesterday. 3 ends of 5 arrows at 60m, 50m, 40m. I shot at each distance to figure out anchor and aim point as each required something vastly different. Ended up with a 331 and while it was fun, I know my score will climb with more practice time.


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## lunger 66

They had a sightin area that I worked at for a half hr. I'm able to hit 50 yard targets everytime, but I'm in the 3 ring some. I did shoot 60 yards before they got me straightened out on their rules. Outta 4 arrows, I missed with the first two. I've just been shooting 20 yards at my house until this. I don't really know what to think yet. I'm planning on shooting at deer at 25 yards and closer, rather than practicing 50 yard stuff. Its fun watching the arrow fall into the targets though....Lunger


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## lunger 66

The better compound guys I saw would hit the 5 point white bull, or barely miss it. I was doing good if I hit the 4 ring, and had a bunch of shots in the 3 ring. If you miss the 3 ring, its a zero


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## centershot

Shot a 261 last night after a 2 week layoff. Felt good, no shoulder pain (reason for the layoff). Shooting my Satori with 35# BM 2.0's and Entrada 700's. No stabilizer, off the shelf. Seems to be about average with this rig.


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## lunger 66

That's really good, especially for the way your bow is set up!!!! Glad you're feeling good again, Lunger


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## kenn1320

Nice shooting CS.

My son shot his first 18m road 300 round shooting barebow. 60cm target, so bigger than the nfaa, managed a 211.


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## marcelxl

I got back on it this week too. 260 and then 261 last night.

Dryad Orion, off the shelf


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## mrjeffro

Nice shooting guys !!


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## lunger 66

Got a 260 animal round on Monday evening. It was 14 targets, from 13 yards to 50, on that day. If you hit the center dot, it was worth 21. The kill zone was 20, and just a hit on the animal was 18. I guess a 294 was possible, but 260 is what i'd done. Lunger


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## rembrandt

I felt real good with my 229 the other day because I've laid off a year or more because of bow shoulder pain......I went to canting the bow and it has made a big difference with me.....I hope to get back above the 240 mark soon and none of my scores are indoors.....I get to fight the wind, heat and skeeters......


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## bobschuitema

Shot a 245 yesterday. First time shooting beyond blank bale in two weeks. I feel like my new anchor point is finally settling in. Finger seems to be coming around after some soreness.


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## lunger 66

Well done Bob! Keep it up. Glad your fingers are better. Lunger


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## FLlongshot

I think I like indoor better than 3d. Once the Tradworlds are over I'll be jumping in with both feet, planning on going to Cincinnati with the longbow. Some of you guys are putting up great scores, keep it up.


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> Just shot an outdoor hunter league yesterday. It basically was just bullseye targets from 11 yards to 65 yards, and you shot 4 arrows at each target. The whole club shoots compound bows with scopes, and trigger releases, except me and probably 3 other trad shooters. We trad shooters are told to shoot youth distances, when given the option. Basically, when you have a 60 plus yard target, they've provided a youth stake for trad shooters at 50 yards. Anyway, I got through the coarse yesterday with a score of 205, for the 14 targets on the course. I have no idea how i've done compared to the other trad shooters, because we are allowed to just come shoot when your schedule allows. I was shooting with 3 compound shooters at the time. Anyway, we have 4 hunter, and 4 animal shoots to complete, roughly a week between shoots for most, but you're allowed to shoot ahead if needed. Lunger


 That sounds like our NFAA hunter round except there are 4 stations that shoot what I call longer distances besides the other 10 stations that shoot closer. They are all walk ups, one is 53,48,44,41 the next is 58,53,48,45 the third is 64,59,55,52 the last is a 70,65,61,58. So far my best 14 target round shooting NFAA Trad recurve legal is a 228. Lots of fun shooting these roving ranges that is for sure.


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## lunger 66

That's really something! The furthest they have me shooting is 50 yards. I can shoot 60, but no idea where to hold after that. I'm kinda disappointed that i'm the only trad shooter attempting the outdoor animal, and hunter categories. My best hunter was 205, and best animal is 260. Like I said though, my furthest shot is 50 yards, and that's about 3 of the 14 targets normally. Lunger


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> That's really something! The furthest they have me shooting is 50 yards. I can shoot 60, but no idea where to hold after that. I'm kinda disappointed that i'm the only trad shooter attempting the outdoor animal, and hunter categories. My best hunter was 205, and best animal is 260. Like I said though, my furthest shot is 50 yards, and that's about 3 of the 14 targets normally. Lunger


 Most folks shooting the NFAA rounds in the bowhunter and trad recurve division will try and have a point on at or around 40 yards with a fast arrow as both these divisions only allow one fixed anchor point and no string walking. This will keep the gaps reasonable at close range and let you use parts of the bow for reference on the longer distances. You can use the plunger button to gap off of As well as the front and back shelf. The field round wil have 1 80 yard shot per 14 target round. It is a walkup also . 80,70,60,50 ona 65 cm target face.


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## lunger 66

Crazy amount of distance without sights! Looking forward to shooting the indoor 300 rounds this fall/winter. I plan on shooting deer at 25 yards, and closer. Lol!!!!


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## cubefx

Shot my personal record couple of weeks ago. Shot 270 (23-22-23-20, 24-23-21-22, 23-22-23-24).
Figured it was a fluke. Attempted to shoot it once more last week and failed miserably. Robinhooded the arrow on very first round. Went inside got the new arrow. On the third round robinhooded another one. :/
So now I am down to the 4 arrows.


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## moog5050

267 with my hunting rig this morning - 48lb Covert hunter and 700g FMJs. Starting to feel more automatic with the new bow and higher anchor. 9 off a personal best but with the change of anchor settling in, still pleased. Chronoed the arrows at 180fps. Plenty of momentum and KE. Loving this bow. 

Huge respect for you guys shooting 50-70yds with a barebow recurve. Not sure I would want to know how bad I shoot at those distances.


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## lunger 66

Darn impressive with a 48lb bow! Keep it up Brian! !!


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## rembrandt

I'm climbing the ladder.....shot a 242 today and it gave me confidence that I can do better......I gave up on the spot shooting and went to canting the bow and the difference has been phenomenal....I draw on target and I have a solid anchor now and I aim with the release......well, it feels that way.....My lowest score today was 19 and I had way too many of them......I had 7 and 5 in the 20s.....3..3s and 3...2s hurt me but when I correct those I will be over the 250 mark and that's what my goal is now.....to break 250 and stay there.......When I anchor and use back tension which I do when the shield feather touches my nose......I then concentrate on where I want the arrow to go and then release.....it do feel good!


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## lunger 66

That's great news, Rembrandt! !!!! Keep it up! Sounds like you're getting more consistent each time....Lunger


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## lunger 66

Rembrandt, after you shoot your 60 shots and look at the target, does it look more vertical, horizontal, or pretty much rounded group?


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## davidflorida

nice shooting remy


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## rembrandt

Thanks David and Lunger.........pretty much rounded.....my arrows are afraid of the white area but they seem to surround it quite well.....I had 7 Xs which is indicative of my release not being where it ought to be so for .....I think a little more work will improve my score but it is tough to gain ground after you hit the 240 mark......I still use the tip of the arrow and spot shoot in a way but mainly I concentrate on the white area and when I feel it is there I let go......I get in trouble if I don't use the back tension and creep or not pull through the shot.......

Dave


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## lunger 66

Oh, that's funny!!!!! Reason I asked was because I really struggled with vertical, even on my best targets. My trouble was mostly a dead release mixed with more of a dynamic release. Took a long time for me to make my release even from shot to shot. Lunger


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## moog5050

Nice shooting Rembrandt


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Oh, that's funny!!!!! Reason I asked was because I really struggled with vertical, even on my best targets. My trouble was mostly a dead release mixed with more of a dynamic release. Took a long time for me to make my release even from shot to shot. Lunger


the "dead release" is what gives me a 2 or a 3........It just dies on the way to the target so you have to use back tension and pull threw the shot......very seldom to I go high to a 2 or 3 but I'm capable of it........consistency is the name of the game.......


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> Nice shooting Rembrandt


thanks Moog5050......it was my best round this year but I hope to do better down the road.....practice is the thing and I have to do my leather work and knife making, plus I have classes in both........but if I can get in 3 to 5 rounds a week, I'll improve.......


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## moog5050

rembrandt said:


> moog5050 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting Rembrandt
> 
> 
> 
> thanks Moog5050......it was my best round this year but I hope to do better down the road.....practice is the thing and I have to do my leather work and knife making, plus I have classes in both........but if I can get in 3 to 5 rounds a week, I'll improve.......
Click to expand...

No doubt. Quality over quantity anyways. I have sessions where I fling arrows and accomplish little. Better to focus on each and every shot even for short sessions.


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## centershot

85 Pages, 127,241 views on this thread and still going strong - looks to me like there are still some trad guys that enjoy shooting targets also........keep up the good work fellas.


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## moog5050

Remy inspired me. 268 with the Covert hunter today and a slightly stiffer arrow. I had 4 3s or I may have broken that 270 mark. Kinda like missing 3ft putts. The ole what if. Lol


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## lunger 66

Moog, you oughta be slapped in the head for shooting that well for a hunting weight bow! Lol!!!!!! That's awesome! Lunger


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## lunger 66

Thanks center, for starting this thread, and giving us all something to strive for! Lunger


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## rembrandt

I have posted many times on here and it is great to funnel comments to the NFAA target thread and not have it go all over the place with opinions that don't stay on this subject matter.....

Moog had a heck of a round.....268 is only in my dreams and IF I can stay above the 240 mark, I will be happy as a Lark......


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## davidflorida

I second that great thread centershot .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## moog5050

This is a fun thread and inspires me to shoot for score.


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> Moog, you oughta be slapped in the head for shooting that well for a hunting weight bow! Lol!!!!!! That's awesome! Lunger


I shoot worse with the light bows so it's not really an accomplishment. Masks my lousy release more. Lol


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## centershot

moog5050 said:


> This is a fun thread and inspires me to shoot for score.


That was the original idea, glad it has lasted and has been informative. I have certainly enjoyed it.


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## rembrandt

centershot said:


> That was the original idea, glad it has lasted and has been informative. I have certainly enjoyed it.


Thanks for letting this happen.....I have gotten some good advice and its fun to see what others are doing on here........


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## moog5050

CHOKE - shot 262 this morning but the score was not the choke. Not sure I have shot an entire 60 arrows without a 3. Got to my last two shots in my last end thinking, geeze score is about average but I haven't shot a 3 at all and I didn't even warm up today. As a hunter, I would prefer to never miss at least the 4 ring than score a few points higher with some 3s. So I then starting thinking too much. Next arrow looked like I hit the 4 ring to the left. Last arrow looked like I hit the 4 ring to the right. I knew I choked but wasn't sure if I was on the ring. When I got to the target, nope, two 3s just off the ring. Sucker! I then shot an extra end of a 24. Just had to laugh. Other than those two arrows, shot decent but just off the white too much. All that said, I have definitely settled in with the higher anchor and the CH. all good I guess.


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## silverirae

I love reading this thread. It inspired me to buy some target faces.


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## rembrandt

silverirae said:


> I love reading this thread. It inspired me to buy some target faces.


I usually go with Lancaster on the Blue NFAA targets.....I think they are about $.35 cents each or there about......I buy 30 or so and go to the dumpsters around town and pick up card board for backing.....spray them on and cut around the edge and I have a decent target......


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## moog5050

You can also copy them to 11x17 paper but it cuts off the sides of the 1 and 2 ring. Good for practice and cheap


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> You can also copy them to 11x17 paper but it cuts off the sides of the 1 and 2 ring. Good for practice and cheap


Doing away with the one and two ring would devastate my score.....I count on those babies to break 10........


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## moog5050

rembrandt said:


> Doing away with the one and two ring would devastate my score.....I count on those babies to break 10........


Lol just shoot those ones and twos high or low, not left and right. Or turn target sideways.


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## silverirae

rembrandt said:


> I usually go with Lancaster on the Blue NFAA targets.....I think they are about $.35 cents each or there about......I buy 30 or so and go to the dumpsters around town and pick up card board for backing.....spray them on and cut around the edge and I have a decent target......


I'll have to check it out next time. I found some on Amazon for about $.69 a piece with free prime shipping. Still might work out to more than Lancaster.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## moog5050

In all seriousness, you can copy them on 11x17 and then use two if you need the full 1 and two rings. Just match up rings and post one sideways and one lengthwise over the top. Lots cheaper if you have a printer.


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## silverirae

moog5050 said:


> In all seriousness, you can copy them on 11x17 and then use two if you need the full 1 and two rings. Just match up rings and post one sideways and one lengthwise over the top. Lots cheaper if you have a printer.


I'll have to do that. Much cheaper, I even have a color printer

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## moog5050

Black and white works too and even cheaper yet


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## lunger 66

Rembrandt, if I was your neighbor, i'd cut the 2 ring off your targets with a sharp knife. I swear you just THINK you need those extra rings! Lol!!!! Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Rembrandt, if I was your neighbor, i'd cut the 2 ring off your targets with a sharp knife. I swear you just THINK you need those extra rings! Lol!!!! Lunger


Well, today I did need the 2 and the 1....LOL....it was a disaster.....my confidence was shot all to hades......I shot a miserable 222 and later shot a 221.....I couldn't find the groove I was in earlier and I had numerous creeps and low hits.......I think the problem was, (partly the wind) and mostly I got little sleep last night because of getting up at 4AM to go to a flee market called Mt. Top.......I seemed to be jittery and not mentally into it......Maybe I will do better in the morning before I head for the workshop.......I hope so.....I need to get that feeling back that enhanced my confidence in my release......


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## lunger 66

Don't get down or give up. Try to remember everything you did, each time you make a good shot. Pretty soon you'll get another jump in accuracy. Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

222 here is a disaster, means I would have to buy the beers for everyone, cant afford it as I've already been caught with a 444 Hunter round this year 


Always look for the positives in the rounds and don't let the scores get you down, they're just a number on a piece of paper :thumbs_up

The only thing that matters for me is that I didn't quit and I did my best for that particular moment in time. Means I can always walk away happy regardless of my position/score.


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## rembrandt

Stephen Morley said:


> 222 here is a disaster, means I would have to buy the beers for everyone, cant afford it as I've already been caught with a 444 Hunter round this year
> 
> 
> Always look for the positives in the rounds and don't let the scores get you down, they're just a number on a piece of paper :thumbs_up
> 
> The only thing that matters for me is that I didn't quit and I did my best for that particular moment in time. Means I can always walk away happy regardless of my position/score.


Not a thing wrong with that advice.....I will keep that in mind as I watch in horror as my shots go where I didn't tell it to......It sucks to spray them all over the target.....thanks Steve......


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## Corene1

I have been following this thread for a while so I went a bought some blue face targets today and am going to give a 300 round a go tomorrow shooting my NFAA trad bow. 44 yard point on will definitely give me a big gap at 20 but it will be a fun challenge.


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## moog5050

Corene1 said:


> I have been following this thread for a while so I went a bought some blue face targets today and am going to give a 300 round a go tomorrow shooting my NFAA trad bow. 44 yard point on will definitely give me a big gap at 20 but it will be a fun challenge.


Have fun with it and remember the the most important arrow is the one you are shooting next.


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## Corene1

Thanks. I think the last time I shot the blueface was when there was a little friendly competition on the trad page here. Everyone did a first 3 arrows of the day picture shoot and also a 10yd,15 yd 20 yd 3 arrow walk up contest. They were lots of fun!


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## rembrandt

THANKS TO LUNGER 66's advice on my stance, I came back and shot a 238 and I felt a little better.....I had 5 straight in the 20s with one end having 3 Xs.......Rain hit and I had to fold it up and when I came back out I only had 2 in the 20s out of the final 7........It was encouraging to get the feel back and start back climbing back up the ladder......Thanks lunger66 for the phone call and you was so right on the stance......I got that feel again with my aiming and the arrow going where I wanted.....I think I will improve fairly quickly.......hope so!


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## lunger 66

That's awesome that you're heading in the right direction again! Stance was only a portion of what we talked about though. The "alignment" of your bow arm, shoulders, and head is critical. Keep it up! You're making it happen! Pretty soon you'll shoot a 250, if you keep working on it. Lol!!!! That was really nice to hear from you. Best of luck to you! Lunger


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## Corene1

I had a really fun day today. I went down to my friends archery shop and set up a brand new Hoyt Faktor olympic bow with the new X-tour bamboo limbs. Did all the basic alignments and tuning for his customer and got to shoot it a bunch as well. It is ready for the fine tuning to begin with his customer now. Also had the chance to give the 300 round a go with my NFAA field bow instead of the indoor bow and was quite happy with the results. I managed a 266 with only eight 3's . I thought it was pretty good result for shooting a bow with a 44 yard point on . I really think all the arrows through the clicker on the olympic bow helped with form and gave me a nice warm up for the 300 round. For me that white spot sure seems to be easier to aim at than the 40cm multi colored FITA target. Now for some fireworks and home made ice cream. Happy 4th.


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## lunger 66

That's really good shooting for a hunting weight bow! Was your gap about 18 inches? Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> That's awesome that you're heading in the right direction again! Stance was only a portion of what we talked about though. The "alignment" of your bow arm, shoulders, and head is critical. Keep it up! You're making it happen! Pretty soon you'll shoot a 250, if you keep working on it. Lol!!!! That was really nice to hear from you. Best of luck to you! Lunger


It was really enjoyable to talk to you and I appreciate your advice.....I got the feeling back and now I can work on hitting that white and staying inside the 4 ring....doing away with 3s on down is my goal right now.........


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## Corene1

I don't shoot pick a point or a gap on the paper, I shoot a gap in the riser window. My gap at 20 is 1-1/8 inches in the riser window. Shooting the gap in the window allows me to always focus on the spot and the gap and not having to measure down from my spot to an aiming point. I can see the 1 1/8 gap in the window much easier and with more accuracy than trying to figure out 18 to 20 inches down from the spot, especially if the spot is close to the ground or if there is no backstop to measure on. It is not really a hunting weight bow either. I only shoot 35 pounds on the fingers with 350 grain arrows at 190 FPS. This allows me to shoot the longer 70 and 80 yard targets on a field round with good accuracy.


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## lunger 66

Sounds like a pretty good way to do. Its still a great score! How do you like the new Olympic bow?


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## moog5050

Good shooting Remy and Corene!


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## DwayneR

Made this YEARS ago. . .Have at it. . .
It is the same size as the actual target.

If you miss the paper, count it as a zero. . .Yeah, your score may be lower, but, does it matter?
As you improve, you will hit the paper every time.

Not only that, it is a darn cheap target to make. . .the cost of a piece of paper, and the ink.

Dwayne


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## moog5050

DwayneR said:


> Made this YEARS ago. . .Have at it. . .
> It is the same size as the actual target.
> 
> If you miss the paper, count it as a zero. . .Yeah, your score may be lower, but, does it matter?
> As you improve, you will hit the paper every time.
> 
> Not only that, it is a darn cheap target to make. . .the cost of a piece of paper, and the ink.
> 
> Dwayne


Assuming this is for 8x11" paper?


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## lunger 66

That's a good idea! Heck, most of the 3 ring will fit on regular paper anyway. The 3 ring measures 9 7/16 inches across. Great idea! Lunger


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## Draven Olary

moog5050 said:


> Assuming this is for 8x11" paper?


Yes it is - I checked it in Photoshop @ 100%. You can print it on 11x17 too.


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> Sounds like a pretty good way to do. Its still a great score! How do you like the new Olympic bow?


I went down to the archery shop after work and helped the gentleman with some fine tuning this evening. The bow is really pretty and shoots quite nice, but WAY over my budget. $2,000 for riser, limbs, button, rest, and sight. It is very quiet and draws very smoothly and doesn't stack up quickly so the pounds don't vary much if you overdraw it a bit when coming through the clicker ,but at that price I'll stick to my old Hoyt Avalons thanks.
As far as the gap I shoot Gary and Ben will argue over who figured it out first, but I learned it from Gary


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## lunger 66

Guess the sky is the limit, like a lot of other hobbies. I'm gonna go try to get a gap off my riser in a few minutes, like you're doing, and see what that looks like at 20 yards.


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> Guess the sky is the limit, like a lot of other hobbies. I'm gonna go try to get a gap off my riser in a few minutes, like you're doing, and see what that looks like at 20 yards.


Easy way is to stick a piece of tape on the back of the riser and mark it where 20 yards is and then learn to see the gap without the tape. Then do the same for the other yardages after you establish a point on. If you are only concentrating on shots around 20 yards it is hard to beat having a bow set with 20 to 25 yard point on. The style of gapping that I use works very well for shooting the NFAA field and hunter rounds. Maybe there needs to be an NFAA field & hunter round thread to keep from hijacking this one.


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Guess the sky is the limit, like a lot of other hobbies. I'm gonna go try to get a gap off my riser in a few minutes, like you're doing, and see what that looks like at 20 yards.


I like and dislike the idea of a gap and I've tried it for a while and here is why......I like it cause I believe it to be more accurate over a period of time working with it.....What I don't personally approve of is your not actually looking at the bullseye and shooting at the fixed object which is the objective, I think. of what we should be doing.....I want to hit the X but I want to be searching for it and not for a spot on the paper or a foot or two under the target.....That's just me however and I wonder if Byron Ferguson aims a foot under that aspirin tablet?


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## lunger 66

Just tried Corenes method of gapping off the riser, instead of the arrow, like I've been doing. His method works just as well as mine. Actually, his method may work a little better in low light, like hunting. ..... I watch the bullseye with the bulk of my attn, but also see a slightly fuzzy arrow tip, and both of these methods are light yrs beyond what I was originally taught. Lunger


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## Corene1

rembrandt said:


> I like and dislike the idea of a gap and I've tried it for a while and here is why......I like it cause I believe it to be more accurate over a period of time working with it.....What I don't personally approve of is your not actually looking at the bullseye and shooting at the fixed object which is the objective, I think. of what we should be doing.....I want to hit the X but I want to be searching for it and not for a spot on the paper or a foot or two under the target.....That's just me however and I wonder if Byron Ferguson aims a foot under that aspirin tablet?


 With gap shooting using the riser window your focus is on the spot. You are not looking at a point under the spot . That would be gapping at the target or pick a point type aiming. Your focus is on the spot and you see the arrow in your secondary vision and the distance is in fractions of an inch in the riser window. It is like shooting with sight pins then removing the pins and just seeing where those pins were in your sight picture.


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## rembrandt

I've come to the conclusion that I am a 225 to 239 shooter...I had 9 3s and 2s total and I ended up with a 228 score......I should have had a bunch in the 20s if it hadn't been for the dang 3s..........7 of them killed me.............not to mention the 2 2s.......


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## rembrandt

Each day I keep verifying that I'm a 225 to 240 shooter but today I had the feeling that I could improve soon and shoot with consistency......I shot two rounds....a 226 and a 230......I told my self that if I shot under a 17 I would go back into the house.....Well, my first end was a 17 and then all the rest were 18 or above....I had 15 "3"s that really hurt my score on the 230 and 2 "2"s.....that is 17 below the 4s and I think I can improve on that with a little more practice......It is in my anchor and release and I think mostly in my release.....sometimes I anchor and forget to be in the pull mode at release which causes a low shot.....the bottom falls out of the shot.....I had a bunch of arrows in the 5 ring today on that 230 score.......Now if I can settle into hitting within the 4 ring I will climb like I want to.........sad but I was an above 240 shooter and I need to get back in the saddle.....


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## moog5050

Keep at it Remy. Scores will improve. I like vipers 3 second rule. Hold on target 3 sec before and after release. It also gives good feed back on alignment based on bow movement after the shot.


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> Keep at it Remy. Scores will improve. I like vipers 3 second rule. Hold on target 3 sec before and after release. It also gives good feed back on alignment based on bow movement after the shot.


That is one of my major problems.....I drop the bow soooo quickly after release and it is ingrained into my form....I think I formed that habit back in the 50s and 60s......


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## lunger 66

First attempt with a true 3 under tab. It came to 275 and 10x. My gap is too large with this tab. I may have to move my knocking point to bring the gap down. Lunger


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## lunger 66

Forgot to mention, I shot either 12, or 14 arrows in warmup. one of the warmup shots was a 3,at about 2oclock. The other 3s fell out the bottom when it mattered. lol!!!! lunger


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> First attempt with a true 3 under tab. It came to 275 and 10x. My gap is too large with this tab. I may have to move my knocking point to bring the gap down. Lunger


Great shooting Mark.


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## mrjeffro

Nice shooting Lunger! ( I see you mastered how to post pictures  )


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## lunger 66

Nope. Just have a smart wife. Lol!!!!!! I'll get my gap figured out for this new tab, but I may need longer arrows and maybe a higher nock point. I'm having to guess, and go by gut feeling too much. Lunger


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## mrjeffro

Why not try a fixed crawl? Its what the cool kids are doing


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## Stephen Morley

That's a nice solid spread of arrows, wont take much to tighten those groups up :thumbs_up


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## moog5050

mrjeffro said:


> Why not try a fixed crawl? Its what the cool kids are doing


You shooting a crawl with the CH?


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## mrjeffro

moog5050 said:


> You shooting a crawl with the CH?


Yes sir. Springy rest and a crawl


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## lunger 66

Um, i'd like to use the fixed crawl, but I understand that it's not trad legal if I go to a actual shoot, so i'll just learn to manage my gaps. I was using a tab that was meant for split finger shooting with the plastic spacer, and the gap was fairly small with it because of that finger spacer. two things happened not long ago.....I finally started shooting a dynamic release, and it caused me to group higher. lastly, I switched to a true 3 under tab, and that caused me to shoot even higher. lunger


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## lunger 66

Thanks Stephen, that means a lot to me coming from you. Gives me some hope anyway. lol!!! Those right hand flyers are from a mild string pluck, aren't they? Mark


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## moog5050

mrjeffro said:


> moog5050 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You shooting a crawl with the CH?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir. Springy rest and a crawl
Click to expand...

Ha, hadn't tried a crawl since moving to a higher anchor. Threw a lower nock on and started at 3/8" below lower nock. 24 almost 25 first end. Boy my crawl shrank since moving to higher anchor. I just may have to give this a real chance. My old crawl was over an inch with the lower anchor and I didn't like how it detuned the bow. With this small of a crawl it's not bad at all and not much louder.


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## mrjeffro

Welcome to the dark side . I was always a gap shooter but after watching Jimmy Blackmon and Dewaynes YouTube videos on the fixed crawl I gave it a try. It was nice for target shooting but found myself going back to gapping for hunting. Then Matt came out with The Push video and this convinced me to get more serious about the fixed crawl. Now I hunt and target practice with it

i tried a bunch of different rests and off the shelf. The Springy gave me the shortest crawl.


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> Keep at it Remy. Scores will improve. I like vipers 3 second rule. Hold on target 3 sec before and after release. It also gives good feed back on alignment based on bow movement after the shot.


I did notice when I had a shot go right and into the 3 ring that the bow was turned in that direction....It does tell you why an arrow went away from where you were aiming......It works and I'm tickled to have it as part of my accuracy agenda.......


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## rembrandt

I really struggled today with 11- 3s but I was surprised at the score.....a 241 with 10 Xs......If those dang 3s had been 4s like they should have been, I would have broken 250 for the 1st time this year......My highest score ever was a 259 but that was a couple years ago.....Now, I'm fighting my way back up the ladder......I did learn something today however.....when the string hit my nose or cheek, the arrow went right into the 3 or worse.........


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## lunger 66

Shoot at least some every day, and don't give up!!!! You're going to have to work for it, at least for awhile. Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Shoot at least some every day, and don't give up!!!! You're going to have to work for it, at least for awhile. Lunger


I try to do that but sometimes I have distractions, a wife wants me to go with her somewhere which is a common thing I assume and then I have orders to fill at the workshop.....but every chance I get, I'm out there......If I can stay above 240, I will be satisfied to a degree.....I say that, but all my life I played golf 3 or 4 times a week and I finally got down to being a scratch golfer but each time you walk on that no.1 tee box, you want to shoot under par and I guess its the same with archery.....I never worried about scoring back in the 50s and 60s.....just had fun shooting a bow at stumps and rabbits etc. but the accuracy thing is a whole new ball game......


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## rembrandt

I went out this morning and shot two rounds........My first round was a 236 and my second round was a 250.....I had one end that was bad and I had three low in the 3s.....I had 11 in the 20s and that made me feel good....I felt strong and my anchor was solid and when I do that, I can be pretty accurate........I still am working on holding the bow on target after release while counting 1,2,3.....That 250 was a lot of fun...........I did change arrows and that helped some I do believe......what, I don't know.......the tips maybe a tad heavier....I will weigh them to find out for sure........I still have to thank Lunger and Viper1.........


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## lunger 66

You just made my day!!!! Keep it going! It's getting easier, isn't it? Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> You just made my day!!!! Keep it going! It's getting easier, isn't it? Lunger


I don't know about easy but if I anchor with a firm anchor and concentrate on the X.....It goes where I want it to go more often than not....Its fun to stack arrows.....I can smell a Robin Hood coming.........


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## rembrandt

Well, about the only thing I did yesterday and today is shoot poorly.....I had a 241 yesterday and today I shot a 231 with 20 bad shots in the 3s and 2s but the other 40 shots were in the 4s and 5s....I will try again later today and see if I can get a better result.....


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## moog5050

rembrandt said:


> Well, about the only thing I did yesterday and today is shoot poorly.....I had a 241 yesterday and today I shot a 231 with 20 bad shots in the 3s and 2s but the other 40 shots were in the 4s and 5s....I will try again later today and see if I can get a better result.....


Keep that practice fun Remy. I know I like a break from scoring at time and just shoot random spots from 10-30yds.


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## lunger 66

Listen to Moog. It really helps. Just shoot some for practice at the same target, then shoot for score every now and then,especially when you're running great. Brian's right!


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Listen to Moog. It really helps. Just shoot some for practice at the same target, then shoot for score every now and then,especially when you're running great. Brian's right!


I know that's good advice but I enjoy the heck out of the NFAA target......I don't know why but the score part is addictive....I will go back and shoot from 30 however to see if my form has improved......I have a Robin Hood from 30 yds.......couldn't believe that screeching sound when I heard it......


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## rembrandt

I shot a 237 today and I never was comfortable at release.....I was tired, no doubt about it.....I planted three purple leaf plum trees today and the heat sapped me and that's the only excuse I can come up with except shooting about 150 to 170 arrows a day all this week.....Gotta take a break....."I've never been this old before".....famous statement made by my father when he was 102 years young..........


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## lunger 66

Going to shoot another indoor round soon. Practice is going really good, and i'll be attempting to beat my record. Looking for anything over a 280, lol!!!! All worked up, because I received help shooting sooner, and my float is visibly more dead. Thanks Viper, news coming in a day or 2, maybe 3....lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Going to shoot another indoor round soon. Practice is going really good, and i'll be attempting to beat my record. Looking for anything over a 280, lol!!!! All worked up, because I received help shooting sooner, and my float is visibly more dead. Thanks Viper, news coming in a day or 2, maybe 3....lunger


LOL....I wish I had your float......Mine is "OMG I'm getting close now let it go, drop the bow to see where it went and then grimace when its in the 3 ring" My float is not dead, its in the panic mode........


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## rembrandt

BTW Lunger........don't mention 2 and 3s around me.....I live in those two rings.........


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## davidflorida

Shot a 240 and a 245 yesterday hope to break into the 250 today . I picked up a Hoyt excel for target and form work ,34 pound limbs . Shooting my trident I'm in the 235 -240 range. Hoping that with the lighter rig I can dial in my form and transfer it to my hunting rig . My main problem seems to be my release if I get a clean release and hold on target till my arrow hits I am there . I shoot 3 under with a glove , I shot a couple shots with a yost tab at the range really liked it so ordered one and hoping that will give me a better release.


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## lunger 66

Good move David! !!! You'll definitely see an accuracy jump with a good tab. It may take a bit to get used to it, but will pay off soon for sure! Great shooting, by the way! Lunger


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## rembrandt

davidflorida said:


> Shot a 240 and a 245 yesterday hope to break into the 250 today . I picked up a Hoyt excel for target and form work ,34 pound limbs . Shooting my trident I'm in the 235 -240 range. Hoping that with the lighter rig I can dial in my form and transfer it to my hunting rig . My main problem seems to be my release if I get a clean release and hold on target till my arrow hits I am there . I shoot 3 under with a glove , I shot a couple shots with a yost tab at the range really liked it so ordered one and hoping that will give me a better release.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


David....you and I are about in the same average range with the NFAA target.....I'm averaging in the 230 to 245 range.....the release is what makes or breaks me....If I have a solid anchor and DO NOT relax and pull thru the shot I am good......I also have to remember to count 1,2,3 after release or I will drop the bow like a lead balloon......I am hoping I never shoot below 230 again.......It just takes work........I've been shooting 2 rounds a day for a week now and I enjoy the challenge......


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## lunger 66

So I shot a 300 round today, and backslid!!!! Shot a 269, but a whopping 19x count! Didn't know that was possible, but i'll get right soon. Lol!!!!!! lunger


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## davidflorida

finally !


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## lunger 66

Well done! Keep after it! Lunger


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## davidflorida

Played a bunch with my trident first . Might set a 25 yard fixed crawl on it will see how I get the arrows to tune . 


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## moog5050

Good shooting guys. 90-88-92 for me this morning. I don't really keep track, but I think my average is high 260s now vs around 260 going into last hunting season. Picking up 6-8 was hard fought this year but I also moved to a higher anchor so I can't complain. 

I think I will start primarily shooting the 3D targets now. First cold shot is key. That's is where total shot control is really evident. Only a couple of months until opening day.


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## lunger 66

You going to hunt with a fixed crawl, Brian?


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> You going to hunt with a fixed crawl, Brian?


Nope. Been shooting without one but it did work well when I tried it. Maybe next year.


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## lunger 66

I've got 3 bows set up for fixed crawl, at 20 yards. Then hold spine at 25. I can "see" the gap at 15 and 10 yards. Anyway, gonna give that a go. Mark


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## moog5050

lunger 66 said:


> I've got 3 bows set up for fixed crawl, at 20 yards. Then hold spine at 25. I can "see" the gap at 15 and 10 yards. Anyway, gonna give that a go. Mark


Wouldn't want to be a deer in your range.


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## lunger 66

That's funny coming from you! Lol!!!!!! I'm sure the deer are real safe wandering around your stand......lmao!!!


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## Corene1

Went up to the range today and shot a 433 NFAA hunter round in the morning then went to the practice butts and managed a 273-11x 20 yard round only 4 threes . the ones in the upper right high are from my son shooting his bow through the chronograph. That's a bunch of arrows for the day when you throw in warm up and tinkering. Also did some work on my 70 and 80 yard shooting.


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## lunger 66

That's a great looking target, Corene! Especially after a long day of shooting. Lunger


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## lunger 66

What kind of bow did you shoot this with, and how much draw weight? Thanks


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## Corene1

Thanks! I was pretty happy with that, and it was all with my NFAA bow, point on of 44 yards. Had even more fun at 70 and 80. I have not been this consistent for a while . I think it is in the changes I have made to the grip. The bow doesn't move once I am set in and points really well, plus the follow through is very solid. There is a nice forward motion to the bow and no torque in the hand. It was a good day.


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> What kind of bow did you shoot this with, and how much draw weight? Thanks


1996 Hoyt Avalon plus with Win&Win Winex limbs. 25 inch riser medium limbs makes a 68 inch bow at 35 pounds on the fingers with BCY 16 Strand D97 string. Shibuya DX plunger and Hoyt super rest using a Doinker 10 inch stabilizer. Arrows are Easton carbon ions cut at 30 inches with 110 grain Easton tips and three 4 inch slightly helical feathers,total weight 352 grains. I draw 27-1/2 inches.


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## lunger 66

Almost identical with my program. I have same draw length, and run 32lb limbs for the 300 round most of the time. I'm running a hoyt horizon 25 inch, and medium ghetto limbs, lol!!!! 68 amo, with 10 inch stab.


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## moog5050

Nice shooting Corene


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## lunger 66

Shot a 278, 13x just now. Trying my best to beat my 280 record,but fall short every time. How can a guy average between 275, and 278, almost every time?!?!?! I just need 3 little points to break this wall,but nope.....Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Shot a 278, 13x just now. Trying my best to beat my 280 record,but fall short every time. How can a guy average between 275, and 278, almost every time?!?!?! I just need 3 little points to break this wall,but nope.....Lunger


278? My lands I'm trying to get into the 250s and struggling big time......I wish I could average in the 250s.....Do you shoot indoors mostly? I battle wind, skeeters and heat.....there needs to be a handicap for us backyard shooters.......LOL...


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## rembrandt

Corene1 said:


> Went up to the range today and shot a 433 NFAA hunter round in the morning then went to the practice butts and managed a 273-11x 20 yard round only 4 threes . the ones in the upper right high are from my son shooting his bow through the chronograph. That's a bunch of arrows for the day when you throw in warm up and tinkering. Also did some work on my 70 and 80 yard shooting.
> View attachment 6161097


You ought to see my targets......looks like a full choke shot mine at 50 yds.....holes all over the place......


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## lunger 66

Nope, i'm outside. Most of the time the house and garage block most of the wind. There's an indoor club, or league this winter, about 45 minutes away though. Not sure if i'll be able to shoot because the doc has to tear out part of my spinal fusion, and redo it, after I get my fall wheat seeded. Fingers crossed! Lunger


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## ChefMatt

Did you just complain about shooting really well? I would be stoked to hit 278. Granted I haven't scored myself in months, I know I can't do that. 

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## lunger 66

Nope, i'm complaining about being locked on a plateau for now. I guess I ought to be thankful instead. Lol!!! Lunger


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> Shot a 278, 13x just now. Trying my best to beat my 280 record,but fall short every time. How can a guy average between 275, and 278, almost every time?!?!?! I just need 3 little points to break this wall,but nope.....Lunger


You are trying too hard. My problem as well . Shooting in a competition or trying to hit a certain score will make me fumble every time. My shot timing goes off as I try to put that little bit more into the shot and it messes things up. Have you ever had someone time your shots? Just for fun when you are just relaxing and shooting have someone time your shot, then when you are going for your record attempt have them time the shots. I was shooting a 900 round for the state championships last year. In warm up I was shooting red or better on every shot at 60 yards and was wanting to shoot a 750 for the full round. The first end of scoring saw a really nice 6 arrow group spot high left in the blue, why, I started trying too hard and my time at full draw got longer causing me to go static on the release , bam left arrows . Took almost a full end to figure it out. By then the 750 round was toast and I just started shooting one arrow at a time trusting my form and poof things were back to normal. Strange how a second or two can change everything.


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## lunger 66

I was holding pretty long. Maybe too long. My target looks like yours. Its vertical. ..... I think you're right. Mark


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## lunger 66

65 shot group. The lower left 3 were shot in the 1st 5 arrows and the really high one was fired in the last five.


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## lunger 66

Oh, the target is a quarter turn off! it's sposed to be a quarter turn clockwise. lunger


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## FLlongshot

Now that the Tradworlds are over it's time to get back to indoor. Haven't shot a round since...February? Anyway, today's my last day off before going back to work so I took 2 practice ends and managed a 252, 9x. Shooting my Omega Imperial with spruce shafts. Not too bad, got to manage some flyers.


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## lunger 66

That's really good shooting with a longbow, and wood arrows!!!!! Lunger


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## FLlongshot

Thanks lunger. I'll be working on it along with the recurve this fall. Planning on a Cincinnati trip in March.


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## lunger 66

Did you have to go through a lot to get wood arrows to really behave through your longbow. I hear and read there's a lot to it...lunger


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## centershot

280+, no 3's........Good shooting Lunger. Sometimes the difference is knowing it's just not right and letting down to reset. Only takes a couple to make the difference.


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## lunger 66

Ya, I popped that 3 ring at least 3 times when going for score, and once in the warmup end. That really high one happened on the last end. It's like I was trying to release, but the string sorta stuck to my tab, and I pulled back a little, getting rid of it. Only way I know how to describe it. Hate it when that happens! !! It'll happen at least once per 60 arrows, and I don't know how to fix it. Lunger


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## FLlongshot

lunger 66 said:


> Did you have to go through a lot to get wood arrows to really behave through your longbow. I hear and read there's a lot to it...lunger


Not really, assuming one can tune a bow/arrow correctly. Once you figure out what the bow likes regarding spine it's a matter of buying quality shafts.


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## FLlongshot

So after I mowed my lawn, I decided to dust off the recurve and give that blue spot a try. Started slow, getting my gap figured out again. Felt better going into the second half and scored 270 thanks to 3 consecutive 25's to close it out. I think once I get everything tuned to my liking I can put up some really good scores. We'll see...


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## lunger 66

That's awesome! !!!!! My hat's off to you! Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Ya, I popped that 3 ring at least 3 times when going for score, and once in the warmup end. That really high one happened on the last end. It's like I was trying to release, but the string sorta stuck to my tab, and I pulled back a little, getting rid of it. Only way I know how to describe it. Hate it when that happens! !! It'll happen at least once per 60 arrows, and I don't know how to fix it. Lunger


wouldn't a new tab solve that problem? BTW.....did you say you shot 280? Dang, that's only 40 points higher than I shot yesterday at 240.......I had a good start, the first 4 ends up in the 20s.....first two were 24s with 2 Xs in both and then a 21 and then two 20s, then I fell apart with two threes twice......went down hill from there......I think I realized I was above my ability and fell back into my comfort zone.....LOL


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## lunger 66

I don't know if a new tab would solve my problem, lol!!!! Yes, 280 was my personal best so far. I haven't been able to duplicate, or beat it yet. I have several 278s, and 275s. I even raised my nocking point to get a closer point on, but the bow got fussy on me, and I lost more points. I set it back where I had it, and shot this 278. Arrow flight was way better, and it ended up helping. The arrows are a bit stiff, so I thought of really upping the point weight. They might be more forgiving yet, along with a closer point on. Lunger


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## Demmer3

lunger 66 said:


> I don't know if a new tab would solve my problem, lol!!!! Yes, 280 was my personal best so far. I haven't been able to duplicate, or beat it yet. I have several 278s, and 275s. I even raised my nocking point to get a closer point on, but the bow got fussy on me, and I lost more points. I set it back where I had it, and shot this 278. Arrow flight was way better, and it ended up helping. The arrows are a bit stiff, so I thought of really upping the point weight. They might be more forgiving yet, along with a closer point on. Lunger


Last year my only two nfaa shoots I shot close to 800 grain arrow. 300 grain points. Hahahaha

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## lunger 66

wow!!!! Wondering how to get a super heavy arrow of the right spine? Just ordered a dozen aluminium 2013s to try, hoping they're heavier than my carbons for indoor. Mark


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## Elmosaurus

lunger 66 said:


> wow!!!! Wondering how to get a super heavy arrow of the right spine? Just ordered a dozen aluminium 2013s to try, hoping they're heavier than my carbons for indoor. Mark


Aluminum is the right track.

Go one spine size up, run near full length and throw a bunch of weight up front. (200+ grains isn't unheard of)

 Point on at 20yards suddenly becomes pretty easy...

I'm learning though that trying to find a setup that is both point on, and good tune... that's the challenge. :tongue:

A very wise archer told me a few months ago that point on was more important than tune though...


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## lunger 66

Yup, I read that too. Demmer wrote it a few months ago, and I haven't forgotten it. Thankyou Elmo! Mark


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## lunger 66

Yet another 278 today.


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## lunger 66

This pic needs to be turned a quarter clockwise again. Not sure what i'm doing wrong. Anyway the first game was 97 then 87, and finally 94. The second game scored 24,22,20, and 21. Somehow I shot 3 in the 3 ring, all low left, and don't know what I did wrong. Two of them are even through the same lower hole. What would cause me to suddenly shoot left like that???


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## lunger 66

The x count was 18 this time, I got 2 ends to score 25 and 4 of them 24. Really had a run at it until ends 5 through 8. Kinda frustrated..... Lunger


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## FLlongshot

I managed a 250, 9x with the longbow today. I'm using my 3d arrows which give me a huge gap-too short, too fast for indoor. I'm juggling some different aluminum/carbons trying to find what I want in regards to weight and length. Hoping I can duplicate the spine/weight/length in wood. Should be pretty easy.


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## rembrandt

I shot a 245 this evening and it was the same old story......4 straight in the 20s and Xs to boot and then the wheels came off.....I had NO 3s till the 5th end and I shot a 19, then another 19, then a 18 and then a 16.....my 3s came two at a time during the middle of the shoot.....I then shot some good ends with a 25 with 2 Xs near the end.....that was the highlight of my 245......I think that is pretty good for an instinctive shooter that doesn't gap or point on shoot......I look at the white area and cant the bow at about 2:0clock.....I've extended my DL and now I get better releases and flatter shots........


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## lunger 66

You're doing way better than before! Keep it up Rembrandt! Lunger


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## lunger 66

Really great shooting with a longbow! What kind is it, and what draw weight? Lunger


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## FLlongshot

It's an Omega Imperial, 43 @ 30".


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## FLlongshot

I tried stringwalking my recurve today for the first time. After 10-15 shots to iron out my crawl, I shot 268, 8x with one ugly 19 end. I guess I'll tie on a second nocking point and play with my anchor a bit to see how good I can get it.


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## lunger 66

I'm betting your fixed crawl method would be the very best. Read that your finger needs to touch the arrow nock, if in a trad competition. I'm touching the nock, and shooting a fairly large gap right now, but have ordered aluminium arrows to ad weight and length. Hoping to find a point on combination, or close to it in the near future. Lunger


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## rembrandt

How about letting an old amateur in here with you pros shooting in the 270s and 280s......To me its something to dream about......anyway, I shot a 239 this am and this evening I had a 241 and I thought I shot bad, which is to you guys but its just a rung in the ladder for me......I'm just elated to be out there and punching paper........I did make a change and extended my DL where I am anchoring behind my jaw bone and feeling my ear.......I cant the bow to about 2 0-clock, lean my head where it is level with the bow, aim and fire.....It is beginning to work for me and my goal is to have an average above 240 and shoot some over 250...........150 arrows a day is plenty for me.....and I love it.......


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## lunger 66

That's what this thread is about, improvement. I think it's great that you keep working at it, plus you've gained a ton of ground since you started not long ago! Keep after it. Mark


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## FLlongshot

Yeah, I know. I'm trying to decide if I want to SW or shoot a heavier arrow point on. I've done very well with heavy arrows but they penalize you if you fumble even a little. I've never given SW a fair shake so I'll mess with it some and see which way I want to go. I'm sort of a longbow guy who is enthralled by what I can do with a recurve lol! I'm trying to get over 270 with woodies, my PB is 268. This is the first season I'll actually build up some wood to dedicate soley to indoor. We'll see...


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## FLlongshot

Rembrandt, you're doing quite well. Keep in mind most guys will never average 250. Shooting in the 240's consistently is an accomplishment. I remember when my goal was 240, it seemed impossible until I did it. Then I read about this guy, John Demmer III lol! who's shooting 290 barebow. I thought, hell, if he can, I can. Don't be afraid to make changes. Give them a shot and build on the things that work. Let go of the things that don't. For a long time, I was stuck doing what I was "supposed" to do. Once I opened my mind, things got interesting fast.


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## Corene1

Hey Rembrandt, I just wanted to chime in here and say that high scores do not an archer make. I have a close friend that struggles putting good ends together back to back. But take him to a 1 arrow unmarked tournament and watch out ,he is deadly. If you need a hunting partner , he is the man I guarantee it. Tell him to poke a hole in the animal , done deal. He also shoots tournaments but high scores are not that important to him but he always has fun with a smile on his face and a kind word for everyone. 
On another note , you do have some 25's in your tally so you are definitely zeroed in. Just slow down a bit between ends. That is something that is hard to learn. After you shoot a good end it seems a bad end follows because we tend to hurry up a bit and want to shoot another high score. Inevitably we shoot too fast and there is that wild arrow. Shoot your form and only think about the arrow you are shooting at that point in time.


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## lunger 66

You may have just helped all of us, Corene. That was sound advice, thanks. Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> You may have just helped all of us, Corene. That was sound advice, thanks. Lunger


I agree.....I have a tendency to speed things up and think my next shot will be robotic but a 3 or 2 brings you down....I do that to the point that I snap shoot without aiming and that's NOT good.....Corene1 has some excellent advice here and one that I need to heed......


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## rembrandt

Corene1 said:


> Hey Rembrandt, I just wanted to chime in here and say that high scores do not an archer make. I have a close friend that struggles putting good ends together back to back. But take him to a 1 arrow unmarked tournament and watch out ,he is deadly. If you need a hunting partner , he is the man I guarantee it. Tell him to poke a hole in the animal , done deal. He also shoots tournaments but high scores are not that important to him but he always has fun with a smile on his face and a kind word for everyone.
> On another note , you do have some 25's in your tally so you are definitely zeroed in. Just slow down a bit between ends. That is something that is hard to learn. After you shoot a good end it seems a bad end follows because we tend to hurry up a bit and want to shoot another high score. Inevitably we shoot too fast and there is that wild arrow. Shoot your form and only think about the arrow you are shooting at that point in time.


I keep a record of my scores and I see a pattern that I need to repair.....I start off good usually and shoot in the 20s for the first 4 or 5 ends and then I collapse in the middle and then do well on the last 3 or so......those middle 15s 17s kill my score.......whats going on with this?


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## rembrandt

FLlongshot said:


> Rembrandt, you're doing quite well. Keep in mind most guys will never average 250. Shooting in the 240's consistently is an accomplishment. I remember when my goal was 240, it seemed impossible until I did it. Then I read about this guy, John Demmer III lol! who's shooting 290 barebow. I thought, hell, if he can, I can. Don't be afraid to make changes. Give them a shot and build on the things that work. Let go of the things that don't. For a long time, I was stuck doing what I was "supposed" to do. Once I opened my mind, things got interesting fast.


Good advice.....I use to shoot straight up with the bow(like the Olys do) and with back tension I was doing well but I also paid a price with nose bleed such that I hated to go out back and shoot.....Now, that I've started canting the bow, I have NO problem with nose hits and I don't even need an arm guard.....I love the fact that I can see the whole target and my accuracy has improved but eliminating the "3s" is the problem and the main challenge right now.....10 of them + is not to my liking.......


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## FLlongshot

That's the most difficult part of indoor, maintaining a high level of focus for 60 consecutive shots. Something I do is to delay starting my end for a minute. I shoot in a rhythm which is fairly fast I guess, I'll take 5 shots in 1 1/2-2 minutes. Tournament allows 4 minutes per end so I'll generally take the first minute to relax then focus for five shots in my normal shooting rhythm. The mid round collapse is not uncommon. It's difficult to maintain a high level of focus for an entire unbroken round so like I said, I take mini mental breaks every end for a minute or so prior to shooting.


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## davidflorida

Same here with the middle ends ,,,,, the mind wanders . Last round I shot I lost my focus. Went from focusing on the target to thinking about shooting with one eye closed and I put up a perfect 3 " dam push videos" ukey:Hope to shoot some this weekend. Was shooting 3-d targets this week from a 25 foot hill at our club. Lee stay with the long bow or are you looking for a clean sweep next year at the tbof, will you be shooting up there for the fall shoot?


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## FLlongshot

Hi David. I'll probably shoot longbow this year, I'm planning on going to Cincinnati for the indoor nationals with it. I'll be working on the recurve too in case I can make it to Lancaster in January. I think I'm going to shoot the FAA Target in October up at Gold Coast with the longbow.


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## FLlongshot

I'm not going to the fall shoot. I just got back from the Tradworlds.


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## davidflorida

See ya at Gold Coast , good luck lee 


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## rembrandt

Shot a 243 this morning and look at this.............18 bad shots(14 3s and 4 2s)....I need to somehow put an end to the bad shots.....I could have shot 260.....A lot of it is in my release and not aiming enough.......course dropping the bow is an intrinsic habit with me that I believe causes TP thru anxiety...........Yuk....


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## FLlongshot

I pulled off a 259,11x with the old longbow this morning. It's a little annoying that I only have 5 matched shafts and one shoots high and left. I have two others in a different spine/weight/length which are heavier and longer so I'm trying to decide which way to go when I order new shafts. They both fly great, the lighter ones with a larger gap but flatter trajectory and obviously the others more of a banana trajectory with a smaller gap. Decisions, decisions...

By the way, I'm glad and appreciative that centershot started this thread so thank you Sir. It's pretty cool to see what people are doing and being able to share your(my)experience with others that understand and/or symapthize LOL!


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## rembrandt

I was watching a guy last night on You Tube that told me something that will help me in the long run......He said if you are canting the bow, its imperative that you move your head and get the nock under your eye.....If the nock is away from your eye and face some it will cause right and left shots.....I am working on that to improve my accuracy and my score.....I have a lot of work to do but I'm shooting to rounds a day now.....around 170 to 200 arrows a day.......


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## FLlongshot

Rembrandt, yes, you'll want to get the arrow under your eye regardless. It'll definitely help with the whole left-right issue. I'll tell you this, quality arrows are more beneficial than quantity. Another thing, don't always keep score. There's essentially 3 types of shooting: training, scoring and maintenance. You need to use them all. I used to shoot everything for score which IMO is a mistake. You train to improve or work on a specific issue. I'm currently shooting a lot for score but I'm actually transitioning from 3d to indoor with a planned interlude for the state outdoor target so use score for equipment analysis.


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## lunger 66

Just now shot a 272, with 17x. Kinda stuck on this plateau for now. Wishing I could travel to a real instructor right now, but harvest is here. I feel like i'm missing something that could really help my scores, but don't know exactly what. It'd be nice to know what to work on, and get another jump in accuracy. Maybe the big improvements are behind me, and i'll struggle from here on out? Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Just now shot a 272, with 17x. Kinda stuck on this plateau for now. Wishing I could travel to a real instructor right now, but harvest is here. I feel like i'm missing something that could really help my scores, but don't know exactly what. It'd be nice to know what to work on, and get another jump in accuracy. Maybe the big improvements are behind me, and i'll struggle from here on out? Lunger


Hey Lunger....I cannot tell you how to improve but I can tell how to mess up big time.....I had a 20 yesterday with a "0"...figure that one out......Those flicked releases are killers.......I had a 240 today so you only out did me by 32 points.......I think I'm doing something wrong! Dang I wish I had worked on my archery like I did on the golf courses.........but I love each day I can get out there and try to improve and find the one thing that will make me competitive......


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## rembrandt

FLlongshot said:


> Rembrandt, yes, you'll want to get the arrow under your eye regardless. It'll definitely help with the whole left-right issue. I'll tell you this, quality arrows are more beneficial than quantity. Another thing, don't always keep score. There's essentially 3 types of shooting: training, scoring and maintenance. You need to use them all. I used to shoot everything for score which IMO is a mistake. You train to improve or work on a specific issue. I'm currently shooting a lot for score but I'm actually transitioning from 3d to indoor with a planned interlude for the state outdoor target so use score for equipment analysis.


Excellent idea.....I think that would help a bunch...just get out there and work on form and forget about scoring......I think that might go a long way in getting rid of TP.....I will definitely try that tomorrow......What I like is....I do not have to worry about scraping my nose or needing an arm guard, so shooting is a pleasure for me now since I went to canting the bow at about 2 0-clock.......


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## centershot

264 16X last night. Have not shot a full NFAA round in a month or two. Shot the first game pretty good (92) then went slowly down hill on the second 2 (88 & 84). That 45# bow really works me over after a couple dozen arrows.


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## FLlongshot

Apparently, NFAA has eliminated the longbow class so I guess I'll not be shooting longbow at the Indoor Nats. This sucks.


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## FLlongshot

I tried some heavier arrows yesterday and got 263. Predictably, misses were low, I was holding 6 o'clock on the 5 spot with a 31" arrow and my conventional 3 under anchor. Tried again today with my other set and again, 270! I'm going to need to build new set of arrows.


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## lunger 66

That's amazing shooting with a longbow! I believe there should be a separate class for a longbow also. I own one, shoot it pretty well, but I can't be competitive with my recurve scores with it. I see a real difference in consistency. Lunger


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## FLlongshot

lunger 66 said:


> That's amazing shooting with a longbow! I believe there should be a separate class for a longbow also. I own one, shoot it pretty well, but I can't be competitive with my recurve scores with it. I see a real difference in consistency. Lunger


Those two were with my recurve. I don't have arrows ideal for indoor so right now I'm either having to hold on (cover) the 5 spot with heavy arrows (which my brain finds difficult) or gap to the bottom of the bluespot. I prefer a 6 o'clock hold on the 5 so I'll do some experimenting before I get new shafts.


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## centershot

FLlongshot said:


> Those two were with my recurve. I don't have arrows ideal for indoor so right now I'm either having to hold on (cover) the 5 spot with heavy arrows (which my brain finds difficult) or gap to the bottom of the bluespot. I prefer a 6 o'clock hold on the 5 so I'll do some experimenting before I get new shafts.


You doing that with wood arrows? Nice shooting.


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## FLlongshot

No no no, those were carbon out of my recurve. I did shoot a 259 last week with my longbow and wood arrows though.


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## lunger 66

New record! !! For me anyway, lol!!!! 282 20x. Don't give up if you flinch one off in the 2 ring! That's the best advice I have for now, lol!!!! I'm so thrilled. Shot a 280 once before, and couldn't break a 278 for a long time afterwards. Shot tons of 278s, and today a 282. One shot in the 2 ring, and one or two in the 3 ring. First game 95, then second was 89, then a 98. Never shot a 98 before either. Going back to my hunting bow now for awhile. Hunting season starting September 1st, I think. Lunger


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## FLlongshot

Thats great shooting lunger! Kudos to you. My PB with recurve is also 282 but I didnt shoot a 98 game, thats awesome! Brief reference to you release hand thread, Viper's got it right, just need to figure it out. I've done some of my best shooting with longbow or recurve after a few days off. I practice in my head constantly.


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## lunger 66

Thanks longshot, I do think about archery and form all the time anymore. You're right, it does help. I have trouble with the second game nearly everytime. It's all mental, and I need to work through it. Love shooting indoor rounds! Lunger


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## davidflorida

I was surprised how much control I lost after shooting my lighter bow for 2 weeks , I wanted to break 250 did that on the lighter bow. Picked up my hunting bow and was having problems controlling the shot , have not shot the light bow since . Hunting season is closing fast and I want my shot dead on . How often will you practice with your light bow during season ?


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## FLlongshot

I go back and forth quite a bit so I've never had much problem.


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## lunger 66

David, my goal was to break my record of 280, then lay it down till hunting season was over. I finally got it done yesterday and plan to only shoot my hunting bow now. My hunting bow is 42lbs, ten lbs heavier than my indoor bow. I did shoot an outdoor league with my hunting bow, so i'm familiar with it, and typically lose 10 points on an indoor round over my lighter bow. I could probably go back and fourth, but want my gaps ingrained from here on out. I think the key is having your hunting bow light enough to be able to really control it. You may be forced to hold at full draw for a long time, depending on what your animal does. Lunger


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## lunger 66

My season is the month of September, so its coming really fast!


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## mrjeffro

lunger 66 said:


> New record! !! For me anyway, lol!!!! 282 20x. Don't give up if you flinch one off in the 2 ring! That's the best advice I have for now, lol!!!! I'm so thrilled. Shot a 280 once before, and couldn't break a 278 for a long time afterwards. Shot tons of 278s, and today a 282. One shot in the 2 ring, and one or two in the 3 ring. First game 95, then second was 89, then a 98. Never shot a 98 before either. Going back to my hunting bow now for awhile. Hunting season starting September 1st, I think. Lunger


Shooting a 89 round and coming back strong with a 98. Awesome shooting!!


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## davidflorida

lunger I am at 10 # difference also . 34 target 44 hunting when I shoot my hunting weight all the time it is no problem . Got my broadheads dialed in this weekend .


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## lunger 66

Sounds like you're not over doing it. I'm sure you have plenty of snort for hunting. Way better to be super accurate in the 40s, than hit and miss with the heavy stuff. Lunger


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## ChefMatt

Lunger that is insane. Dude you did not start that long ago, you are an absolute testament to learning the basics and sticking to it. Congrats on the 182, that is just awesome.

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## lunger 66

Thanks Matt! You can do it too!!!! I'm not selfmade, everyone here has totally helped me along the way. I am so thankful for the forum, and the helpful folks in it. Mark


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## ChefMatt

lunger 66 said:


> Thanks Matt! You can do it too!!!! I'm not selfmade, everyone here has totally helped me along the way. I am so thankful for the forum, and the helpful folks in it. Mark


I would very much like to catch up a bit. I feel like i've got to figure out how to do a full reset. Viper has been kind enough to take a look. I've made some progress on a few things, figured out some other things I need to fix and are proving tough to iron out. 

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## mrjeffro

This has been a fun thread to follow. My hunting bow has been getting all the love lately shooting 3-d but I finally put it down to shoot my Spig BB. 

Scored a 280 tonight ( 96-93-91) shooting at a 5-spot NFAA target. Half way thru my round I wished I was shooting a single spot. Lol. On my 10th end I dropped my bow arm and missed the 4 ring by 1/2". That scores a big fat ZERO. People always say forget about your last arrow and concentrate on the one you are shooting now. Easier said than done. Lol. I did finish my last 2 ends with a 25 and 24 but that ZERO was still on my mind. Lol


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## rembrandt

237 and 236 were my scores today.....at least my consistency is worth something....I want to get into the 240s and 250s and I'll be having fun....I seem to love 3s.....I had 14 in one round and 11 in another......I need to get past a couple bad things in my form if I'm to improve.........yuk!


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## lunger 66

Sounds like you've hit a plateau, Rembrandt. What do you think is your weakest link? I'm guessing it can be worked through, and you'll be on your way. Lunger


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## Corene1

Well a couple of weeks ago I got the indoor bow out and started practicing 20 yards hard . I have only shot 20 yards except for 1 field round last weekend. Been shooting about 150 arrows a night and tonight I went for it. First off the bow is 30 pounds on the fingers with 30 inch ACC 3-04's at 350 grains. With a 5/8 crawl it is point on at 23 yards. I just don't like touching the spot I can see that tiny gap better than touching the spot. Well everything was going peachy til I forgot the crawl . still managed a 285. OK, I 'm done going back to the field it is a lot more fun and less stress on the brain.


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## lunger 66

That is awesome, Corene! !!!!! Well done! Lunger


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> That is awesome, Corene! !!!!! Well done! Lunger


 Thanks, I just have a hard time shooting one distance all the time. I have a scab on the side my nose from where the feather sits on it with the high anchor and crawl . Regular anchor has it just under the tip of the nose. Wish I could shoot like this in competition but that is my Achilles heel . My concentration goes to pieces. When people are watching I try too hard to make a good shot and my timing and shot sequence suffers. Highest indoor round I have ever shot in competition was a 290 but that was shooting a compound in the bowhunter division. Same 3 under hold, no sights and no string walking. Did that with a Hoyt Spectra. Dating myself aren't I.


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Sounds like you've hit a plateau, Rembrandt. What do you think is your weakest link? I'm guessing it can be worked through, and you'll be on your way. Lunger


RELEASE.......If I anchor and forget to use back tension and let the string just roll off the fingers without the pull thru......the arrow seeks the 3 and 2 rings......usually drops like a lead balloon....I'm pretty close to winning the battle with dropping the bow at release to see how pretty the shot was and that has helped but my main concern is the release and sometimes flicking the string and grabbing at the string trying to stop the release.....I'm gonna stick with canting the bow at about 2 o-clock, it has solved two problems....nose sting and breast sting.......that is a blessing I don't want to give up........thanks lunger for your help....I do appreciate your advice.....


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## lunger 66

Rembrandt, roughly how many more points would you have if you removed all your low shots? It may well be worth adding an extra sec or two, to check back tension, and maybe add it into your sequence. I seriously hate adding more garbage on my sequence, but sometimes its a must. I love taking things off the grocery list as I progress. Those things that you still do, but now the subconscious does it for you. It frees your mind up for something like tension. I haven't been able to let back tension go to the subconscious, and maybe never will. Don't give up. At least you're able to put a finger on the problem, and that usually means you can fix it. Lunger


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## Corene1

Probably sound like a broken record here , but have you tried blank baling using a clicker to help you concentrate on back tension? It is something I like to do to ingrain pulling through the shot. Using the clicker makes sure that I don't release before I am into my back . In time , at least for me, it sets up a subconscious trigger mechanism that acts like a built in clicker in my back. The hand won't release until the back is pulling through the shot and at the proper point it tells the hand to release. Just something to think about.


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Rembrandt, roughly how many more points would you have if you removed all your low shots? It may well be worth adding an extra sec or two, to check back tension, and maybe add it into your sequence. I seriously hate adding more garbage on my sequence, but sometimes its a must. I love taking things off the grocery list as I progress. Those things that you still do, but now the subconscious does it for you. It frees your mind up for something like tension. I haven't been able to let back tension go to the subconscious, and maybe never will. Don't give up. At least you're able to put a finger on the problem, and that usually means you can fix it. Lunger


I went out today and shot 256.........I couldn't believe it.....but here is what I did.......Instead of forcing the string into my anchor and jaw bone, I leaned into the hold where the nock was under my eye, then I did what Jim said do and that's bring the elbow around to line up with the arrow and it taint easy for sure, but I could feel the back tension.....It worked well till I wore myself out at about 200 shots......I started another round and after 6 rounds of 20s I began to spray them and snap shoot so I quick.....but I know now what I must do to be consistant and that bring the elbow around causes a pull thru instead of a relaxation at anchor that I've been struggling with....


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## mrjeffro

Corene1 said:


> Well a couple of weeks ago I got the indoor bow out and started practicing 20 yards hard . I have only shot 20 yards except for 1 field round last weekend. Been shooting about 150 arrows a night and tonight I went for it. First off the bow is 30 pounds on the fingers with 30 inch ACC 3-04's at 350 grains. With a 5/8 crawl it is point on at 23 yards. I just don't like touching the spot I can see that tiny gap better than touching the spot. Well everything was going peachy til I forgot the crawl . still managed a 285. OK, I 'm done going back to the field it is a lot more fun and less stress on the brain.
> View attachment 6211179



That's a great looking target!! Nice shooting!!


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## rembrandt

mrjeffro said:


> That's a great looking target!! Nice shooting!!



Hey, that looks like my results......I had 4 in the white with 3 Xs and a "0".....that's a hard way to make 20.....what happened, I was aiming and tried to stop the release and it went high right and out of the ball park.....a 1 would have been better........


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## rembrandt

Back tension is the clue like Lunger mentioned......bringing the elbow around is NOT enough....yesterday I shot lousy and I couldn't come up with an answer so this morning I went back out and kept struggling..........and in the 9th end I found what I was doing wrong.....I went to back tension and found the release and pulling thru the release like I was gonna pull the string around to the back of my neck..I shot a 243 which was OK since I had a 15 and a 13.....which kept me from breaking 250.......Its a work in progress but I'm gonna get there......


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## rembrandt

Corene1 said:


> Probably sound like a broken record here , but have you tried blank baling using a clicker to help you concentrate on back tension? It is something I like to do to ingrain pulling through the shot. Using the clicker makes sure that I don't release before I am into my back . In time , at least for me, it sets up a subconscious trigger mechanism that acts like a built in clicker in my back. The hand won't release until the back is pulling through the shot and at the proper point it tells the hand to release. Just something to think about.


Today I shot a 234 and came back with a 245.....What was encouraging in the second round was the last 4 ends was up in the 20s.....It just became easy and I was hitting the X quite often....in one I had 3 Xs and 21, 22, 23, and a 24....when it gets that easy its fun....Golf use to be the same for me.....when I got in the 7 iron range which was around 150 to 160yds, I knew I was gonna be on the green....putting for birdie, eagle or par......its almost laughable and its the same with archery...... just when I got the feel however the round ended.......but it drives me to get back out there and I will in the morning........


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## lunger 66

That's excellent, Rembrandt! Keep after it! I've stopped shooting indoor rounds, and run my hunting bow daily now. Hunting season is 2 weeks away for me now. Sure miss the indoor round practice though. I have a well tuned tempest, but shoot my Hoyt excel a little better for varying distances, have perfect broadhead tune, and more experience with the excel. All these indoor rounds have mad it possible for me to be able to hunt, after jumping in with both feet last February. Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> That's excellent, Rembrandt! Keep after it! I've stopped shooting indoor rounds, and run my hunting bow daily now. Hunting season is 2 weeks away for me now. Sure miss the indoor round practice though. I have a well tuned tempest, but shoot my Hoyt excel a little better for varying distances, have perfect broadhead tune, and more experience with the excel. All these indoor rounds have mad it possible for me to be able to hunt, after jumping in with both feet last February. Lunger


Its amazing how well you have done in a short time.....I feel like a newbie sometimes but the lay off with a aching shoulder for two yrs is what got me....Anyway, I had an Excel for a while but got rid of it for another ILF bow.....I'm happy with my Sebastion Flute riser and limbs now.....It shoots better than I do.......I have my ups and downs where the FEEL leaves me and I spray arrows all over the target and then it will come to me and I tear the 5 and 4 ring up.....What I need to do is eliminate the bad days and WITH PROPER FORM BECOME CONSISTANT WITH MY SHOTS.....


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## Demmer3

Dang, you guys got me shooting one early. Hahaha. Wasn't a true 300 round but a converted 300 from the fita face. 291 25x. Good solid start. Tailed off in the end last 1/4 dropped 8 of the 9 points 

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## lunger 66

Holy cow, that's awesome! !!!! Someday! !! Lunger


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## lunger 66

What kind of bow, arrow combo were u shooting? Thanks, Mark


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## Demmer3

Maxima recurve RZ. A nice arrow

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## lunger 66

Thanks! !!! It all makes sense now, lol!!!! That's a great score. 290 is my goal by new years. Hoping to average in the 280s by new years. Indoor is my favorite thing to do so far. Trying my 1st 3d shoot in northern Idaho this weekend.


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## Demmer3

Don't press for it too hard or you will find yourself going down a slippery slope

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## lunger 66

So far shooting in the mid to high 270s, with 282 a personal best. Have to thank everyone here on this forum for all their help. Wouldn't have been possible. ...


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## lunger 66

We were typing the same time. I see your message now. That's easier said than done. Wanted to learn it all yesterday, lol!!!!!


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## Demmer3

Forgot to mention. WA BB setup.

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## lunger 66

So that would mean no stabilizer on the bow, right? Maybe just some weight?


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## Demmer3

lunger 66 said:


> So that would mean no stabilizer on the bow, right? Maybe just some weight?


Ya

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## centershot

Stringwalking?


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## grantmac

I think Lunger is going to be gunning for my state record. About time that thing fell!


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## lunger 66

Grant, what's your record so far?


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## Demmer3

centershot said:


> Stringwalking?


Yeah, I see no need for me to go back to nfaa trad hardcore. I can still go to the stab and heavy arrows and shoot the same score even if shooting 135fps compared to this 165fps setup

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## moog5050

Man you guys make me feel inept. Lol. Shot my first score in over a month. Been practicing but more various spots and 3D. Today shot a 273 with my hunting bow. Happy with the score but happier that I had no 3s. Only 4 and 5s. One was on the line. Anyway, good sign for killing deer in 6 weeks or so. I think my average is 7 or 8 higher than this time last year so improvement is good.


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## grantmac

lunger 66 said:


> Grant, what's your record so far?


282-14x trad (pre stab) legal. My two day score was crap though.


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> Man you guys make me feel inept. Lol. Shot my first score in over a month. Been practicing but more various spots and 3D. Today shot a 273 with my hunting bow. Happy with the score but happier that I had no 3s. Only 4 and 5s. One was on the line. Anyway, good sign for killing deer in 6 weeks or so. I think my average is 7 or 8 higher than this time last year so improvement is good.


Lunger....you and Grant are out of my league.....My humble top score is 259 and right now I'm struggling to get out of the 230s......With a wheelie however I had several 300s and 299s......but that was too easy.....I love the challenge of the stick bows.......


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## Stephen Morley

It's interesting, put a small dot at 20y and I can pound it all day, stick that Indoor blue face and things seem to get harder but a factor of 5.

I couldn't decide which 3D setup to shoot last week they both seemed pretty close when it came to 3D's. so I decided to shoot some Indoor ends with each setup, that tiny upping of the stakes showed a clear winner between both setups. It's a great way to test your setup and Form, in practice it puts me the closest to tourney feel more than anything else I shoot at home :thumbs_up


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## yegon

tried my first 300 round and ended up with 262, was quite windy though. I was shooting my FITA 40m tuned bow with a big crawl. I wonder if there is an advantage to change the setup for winter indoor season so that I dont have to crawl so low. I like my 40m sight picture much more than this flat arrow one and I noticed on youtube Lancaster archery classic recording most shooters holding the string just below the arrow. Are they gapping or do they do some woodoo to their bow like using heavy arrows and moving the nocking point?


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## bobschuitema

Shot a personal best today of 251 with my hunting setup for the year. I am looking forward to playing with my dedicated target setup after I kill enough deer or the season closes.


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## rembrandt

bobschuitema said:


> Shot a personal best today of 251 with my hunting setup for the year. I am looking forward to playing with my dedicated target setup after I kill enough deer or the season closes.


You did well that's for sure...I would love to average in the 250s.....Right now I am struggling to stay in the 240s.....I shot a 234 today because I forgot to cant the bow at 2clock in the 3, 4 and 5 ends.....shot two 16s and one 18 before I got back into the 20s......I have a lapse in the middle it seems almost every time......


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## moog5050

Remy 

Your scores will average 250s when you erradicate those teen ends. That's more concentration than ability I bet. It's coming!


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## rembrandt

moog5050 said:


> Remy
> 
> Your scores will average 250s when you erradicate those teen ends. That's more concentration than ability I bet. It's coming!


Your right.....I do get to shooting overly fast and forget that I need to slow down and think my way thru this.......One arrow at a time.......


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## rembrandt

this evening, I went out and shot a 243 with 8Xs and too many 3s.....I can tell I'm improving but in the 40s is not my goal.....I want in the 50s and if I have a bad day fall back into the 40s......that's my goal right now...........


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## yegon

improved to 279 17X today, still a way to go, had my first 25 though (weeeee)

I shot this on a FITA face and scored that one too, came out to 528 which is 24 more than my previous PB, looks like I learned something during outdoor season


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## rembrandt

I had a mediocre day today....shot a 234 and a 243.....I got the feel for it too late....way too many threes and when you do that, it tears a big hole in your score....Gotta get over the 250 mark and stay up there
........


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## rembrandt

I had it going pretty good this morning and ended up with a 246.....I had two ends that hurt my score....a 15 and a 16......those two kept me out of the 250s.....10 in the 20s however isn't bad but 11 shots out side the 4 ring hurts.......I also had 12 Xs which was a plus.....and two 23s with 3 Xs in one and two in another...I love it when I see those arrows in the X.......It is not easy to shoot over 250, at least it isn't for me.....I don't see how some on here can shoot in the 270s and 80s.....that is super fine shooting.......


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## lunger 66

Keep it up. You're on a bit of a plateau right now. We're all pulling for you! Lunger


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## rembrandt

lunger 66 said:


> Keep it up. You're on a bit of a plateau right now. We're all pulling for you! Lunger


I appreciate it but my best days are behind me......I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to mental toughness.....I let too many negatives creep into my confidence which exacerbates the poor shots when I don't need them....LOL In golf the pressure is unreal but I kept telling myself that TODAY was gonna belong to me and I won quite a few tournaments with that attitude.....Now, I do just the opposite with an upcoming end......its demoralizing to say the least......but, I can't wait to get back and try again....every dang day................

Dave


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## Jcborgeson

Saw this thread and decided to give it a try. I've been shooting coumpounds for 32 years and built an Oly rig in April (first serious foray into the world of recurves; I've learned a lot!). Have had a 28# Martin take down recurve since about 1994 that I shot the summer I bought it and then put it away. Pulled out that old Martin, pulled off the sight, found the old 1614 arrows, a truly awful leather glove that was pretty stiff and smells bad and started at 5 yards. Success!... the first 3 ends - no arrows went in the woods! (I had pretty low expectations.) Backed it up to 10 yards and started to figure out what changes to the sight picture would do. Still hit the target on every arrow for 30 arrows. Backed up to 20 yards... 1st end a 16! Decided I needed to eat if I was going to keep this up so came back an hour later and scored 60 consecutive arrows with no redo's - score it like it fell. 62, 71, 77 for a 210

I am astonished how well it all works if you just get your brain out out of the way and let the muscle memory take over. Every time I would over think the shot based on the sight picture I would shoot a two or one. Let the muscles do what they remember and its a four or five.

As ever, consistent hand pressure on the riser is my biggest challenge. Curious how others deal with that when switching from bow to bow, compound to recurve etc. I can be very consistent with my Mathews Halon 6 as that is the bow I shoot the most. Switching to the Martin recurve I had no sensation or certainty. I am sure it will become familiar over time.


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## rattus58

Jcborgeson said:


> Saw this thread and decided to give it a try. I've been shooting compounds for 32 years and built an Oly rig in April ( a first serious foray into the world of recurves; I've learned a lot!). Have had a 28# Martin take down recurve since about 1994 that I shot the summer I bought it and then put it away. Pulled out that old Martin pulled off the sight, found the old 1614 arrows, a truly awful leather glove that was pretty stiff and smells bad and started at 5 yards. Success!... the first 3 ends - no arrows went in the woods! (I had pretty low expectations.) Backed it up to 10 yards and started to figure out what changes to the sight picture would do. Still hit the target on every arrow for 30 arrows. Backed up to 20 yards... 1st end a 16! Decided I needed to eat if I was going to keep this up so came back an hour later and scored 60 consecutive arrows with no redo's - score it like it fell. 62, 71, 77 for a 210
> 
> I am astonished how well it all works if you just get your brain out of the way and let the muscle memory take over. Every time I would over think the shot based on the sight picture I would shoot a two or one. Let the muscles do what they remember and its a four or five.
> 
> As ever, consistent hand pressure on the riser is my biggest challenge. Curious how others deal with that when switching from bow to bow, compound to recurve etc. I can be very consistent with my Mathews Halon 6 as that is the bow I shoot the most. Switching to the Martin recurve I had no sensation or certainty. I am sure it will become familiar over time.


I wear a cotton garden glove and hold the riser by pulling into the web of my palm and catch it with my forefinger and thumb on release... :grin:


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## lunger 66

A whole lot of it is on feel, and knowing that it can be done. Many times you will read different topics on here, and flat feel overwhelmed. This is what you must not allow to happen. There's countless things that will help or hurt you shooting an indoor round. Keep things as simple as you can, because most of what's talked about are the little things. I'm guilty of worrying about every little thing there is, but the reality of it all is it's doable. 
Get that shoulder pointing at your target, along with the bow arm. Draw it back to a repeatable anchor point, and try to line up the string hand/forearm with the arrow. I like the string barely missing my bow arm, and having as much skeletal alignment as possible. Hook string right through those first joints so the string hand isn't under much tension. I'm gonna stop here and say buy shooting the stickbow. Viper wrote it for us all to get off to a running start. Welcome aboard, and best of luck to you. This is very addictive, so you'll probably won't have trouble with motivation. Remember you can do this, Lunger


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## Jcborgeson

Already well addicted... It has been pouring rain here in the Twin Cities most of the day. Got a break about 90 minutes ago and immediately went out and shot a 158 for two games but could not finish the third because it felt like the mosquitoes had taken a quart and a half of blood out of me. Read Viper1's post about competition preparation earlier in this thread and wonder about the virtues of practicing while being assualted by insects - gotta improve your focus and ability to disregard distractions.

Interesting about using a cotton glove. That gets right to the heart of the issue. Some days it's dry and the riser easily works it way to the same spot in the hand. Other days (like today) the humidity is so high that nothing slides or adjusts... The skin just sticks to the riser and folds or warps and I just know it's adding torque. Seems like less of an issue at higher weights as the added draw weight forces some needed slippage. But at 28 lbs. it feels like my hand is glued to the riser paint where ever I put it before the draw and there it will stay. I'll try the cotton glove thing tomorrow morning. My wife has a bunch of those white cotton gloves used for handling ancient artifacts around here someplace.

Thank you both for the encouragement and advice respectively!


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## some guy

132

We all have to start somewhere and I've only been doing this archery lark for four weeks, so can only get better.


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## yegon

rembrandt said:


> I appreciate it but my best days are behind me......I'm my own worst enemy when it comes to mental toughness.....I let too many negatives creep into my confidence which exacerbates the poor shots when I don't need them....LOL In golf the pressure is unreal but I kept telling myself that TODAY was gonna belong to me and I won quite a few tournaments with that attitude.....Now, I do just the opposite with an upcoming end......its demoralizing to say the least......but, I can't wait to get back and try again....every dang day................
> 
> Dave


after today I can appreciate exactly what you are talking about, shot a fita tournament and totally fell apart at 30 meters when it became clear that I only need a mediocre last end to break the national record, everything was shaking the last 6 arrows, I just needed 52 points, shooting 54-55 before without problem. With my third arrow I missed the target completely, almost missed the butt actually and shot 43 points, this of course got me out of whack for the next distance 20m where I botched first 2 ends before getting it back together and I missed a national record there by 2 points

have to do something about that head of mine


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## cubefx

After a long break I decided to start shooting 300 rounds again. Did not warmed up and started shooting right away on the new target face and that shows on the first 4 ends. Shot 265 with three 3s. Shot a lot of 4s, just out of the 5. Happy overall.










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## lunger 66

Good looking target!!!! Your group has a nice shape to it also. I've shot some decent scores, but show vertical in most of them. After hunting season, i'll start in again, and am looking forward to it. Great job, lunger


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## jogilvie69

I shot a 240 on the Vegas target with my hunting bow yesterday evening. The second half was pretty decent. I guess I just needed to get warmed up. Lol


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## rembrandt

This morning I shot a 252 and it could have been better but my rest broke on me and I had to replace it.....It distracted me and of course hurt my potential score.....I had 11 Xs which isn't anything to be ashamed of but 4 of those came in the first two ends.......I did come across something that helped me however......instead of bringing the elbow around to line up with the arrow, I decided to bring the right shoulder around and boy did it work till my rest broke.....after that, I had to fend off the threes....I was pleased to go over the 250 mark tho.....very pleased......it is a tough thing to accomplish for me......


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## jogilvie69

Congrats Rembrandt! It's nice when we hit a goal after working on it for a while. Now get after that 260!


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## lunger 66

You did it!!!!! Awesome! Keep it going, Lunger


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## rembrandt

jogilvie69 said:


> Congrats Rembrandt! It's nice when we hit a goal after working on it for a while. Now get after that 260!


I appreciate both of you and that includes Lunger1.......its not easy for me to stay tuned in but when I shot the first two ends today with 5 Xs I had to laugh.....No way it could be that easy but moving my shoulder back instead of my elbow made a big difference.......


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## cubefx

Went back an hour ago, shot some 3D in the backyard and decided to shoot another 300 round. This time everything went almost perfect. Those arrows where JUST IN. Shot my personal record 289, no 3s and every round was 21 or better. Here is the target after 120 arrows. WFX25, #42 at the fingers, Black Eagle Vintage arrows.









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## cubefx

cubefx said:


> Went back an hour ago, shot some 3D in the backyard and decided to shoot another 300 round. This time everything went almost perfect. Those arrows where JUST IN. Shot my personal record 289, no 3s and every round was 21 or better. Here is the target after 120 arrows. WFX25, #42 at the fingers, Black Eagle Vintage arrows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


DANG IT..... Was too excited and messed up my math. It is only 281.....


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## mrjeffro

"It is Only a 281"

Lol.. GREAT SHOOTING


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## lunger 66

Still a great job! Keep it up! Lunger


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## some guy

rembrandt said:


> No way it could be that easy but moving my shoulder back instead of my elbow made a big difference.......


Can you explain a little more about this to help a beginner out? I'm trying to rotate my shoulders on the draw to anchor and then rotate my elbow on transfer to hold. 

Thanks!


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## rembrandt

some guy said:


> Can you explain a little more about this to help a beginner out? I'm trying to rotate my shoulders on the draw to anchor and then rotate my elbow on transfer to hold.
> 
> Thanks!


What I do now is draw to anchor, then rotate the right shoulder back, not thinking about moving the elbow back which I was doing and the result was phenominal......Don't attempt to move both shoulders, just the draw arm shoulder.....what that does is create back tension and back tension is essential to accuracy.......at least it is for me.....and when you do move that shoulder around it brings the elbow in line.........Good luck with your voyage into the trad world.......


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## Draven Olary

Grats Rembrandt! You found YOUR shot! "Sink your shoulder blade" tripped "push your elbow back" *Thumbs up*


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## yegon

well done


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## rembrandt

Draven Olary said:


> Grats Rembrandt! You found YOUR shot! "Sink your shoulder blade" tripped "push your elbow back" *Thumbs up*


thanks.....it feels good to see that arrow go to the X......In my first two ends I had 23s and 5 Xs.....I had a big grin on my face after those two......It(anchor, eye over the shaft and shoulder back around) will help me out because I know where to go to and that means a bunch on days when the arrow seems to wander......Dang I love this sport......Now I need to go to the work bench and get some leather work done........


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## Jcborgeson

Really nice shooting! 281 is what I am averaging with a full Olympic rig.


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## cubefx

281 was a fluke. Shot 274 this morning with one 3.









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## yegon

270/13 today, felt super inconsistent, one end 25, the next one I did not hit a single 5. I wound down the limbbolts and added 2,5 pounds of weight to my bow and did not retune other than adjust the plunger but I dont think that was the reason for this. I just felt great at some shots and totally out of contact with my body on others and couldnt recover.


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## bigfoot522

I have only done it a few times and my best was 220.
A few of my friends have accompanied me and we're surprised and a bit enlightened.
I know people who scoff at the blue face as it would be so easy to dial in and repeat the shot. I doubt most of them would break 180..


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## cubefx

Last 3 rounds : 274,274,271


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## cubefx

Just shot 262 and 279 earlier this morning. Keeping my average in the low 270s. What is funny is that I would be ecstatic about 262 just a 3 month ago. Now that is a disappointment.


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## yegon

nice shooting cubefx and a lot of it  how many arrows do you shoot ina day? I just went up in weight to #32,5 and shooting 120-140 arrows a day my back feels like a steamroller went over it and you are shooting 10 pounds more - respect.


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## Stephen Morley

For those that just starting out and see some big numbers posted here, most of the time because it's a more modern ILF bow is being shot that is specifically setup for Indoor, either using 3 under with long/heavy arrow or Stringwalking. 

If you shoot Longbow or a wood hunting weight Recurve that not specifically setup for Indoors, then anywhere between 200 to 250 is VERY respectable, above 250 is outstanding.

Whatever style you shoot is takes discipline and confidence to shoot these rounds well, so keep working at it :thumbs_up


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## lunger 66

Thanks for posting, Stephen. I've always wondered what to expect with plain ol hunting equipment. I have a hoyt excel that is a cross between hunting and target. It has produced 265 in my hands a couple of times. The bow is ilf, with an 8 inch stab on it. Moog5050 helped me out with adjusting tiller, and finding the sweet spot for that portion of tune. The bow got a little quieter, and feels lighter in hand. I was able to hold it a little steadier, and scores jumped some. Last time I shot for score, I ended up with 250 vegas round. 
I have several wood bows, and one 45lb longbow that I play with, and know they wouldn't produce the same scores. It's still really fun to shoot them, and see how well they group for me, especially the longbow. Back in February I asked what kind of accuracy I could expect out of a trad bow. I believe viper said about 4 inches with target equipment, and 6 inches with hunting equipment. I believe this to be true. Most of the time I get about a 6 inch group from the longbow at 20 yards, and most of the time about 4 at 20 with my ilf indoor bow. I average in high 270s to 282, my personal best with the ilf indoor bow, but haven't tried a 300 indoor nfaa with the longbow yet. I'm sure I wouldn't come near my indoor bow scores, but it'd be fun to try it after hunting season is over. Lunger


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## lunger 66

Bigfoot, tell us what kind of bow you shot your 220 with. Stephen brought up a very valid point. I normally shoot a 32lb hoyt horizon, with a 10 inch stabilizer on it. The arrows are 30.5 inches long, carbon, with 175gr tips. This bow is pretty forgiving of minor form flaws. 
I hope that you keep it going. It's a great way to build accuracy, and consistency. Lunger


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## Corene1

I have to agree with Stephen, having a bow set up specifically for indoor 20 yard shooting has a big influence on score. I also believe that shooting nothing but 20 yards will ingrain that sight picture in your brain. Typically with my indoor bow I can average i the mid 280's It is point on at 23 yards. When I go to my outdoor bow that is point on at 44 yards I drop to the high 260's to mid 270's. Both bows are Hoyt Avalons with 10 inch stab , indoor bow is 30 pounds on the fingers and the outdoor bow is 35 pounds on the fingers with lighter arrows. I also think if you enjoy the round you are shooting your scores will be higher. When I switch to a FITA type target for some reason my accuracy drops a bit, I just can't seem to focus on the gold as easily as I can focus on the single white spot.


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## Stephen Morley

I think it's informative to post your setup with the score, just so people can relate and compare.

When I shot IFAA Longbow with split finger and wood arrows 240-250's was about my limit (good enough to bring home medals in World/Euros)

IFAA Bowhunter with my normal Field setup was mid 260's, when I got some lighter limbs and 2314's (i.e. 20y point on) I got it low to mid 270's

WA Barebow setup, exactly what I used for Field and 3D is normally low to mid 280's with a 292PB

Indoors is the hardest discipline for me, Field being next and IFAA/WA 3D is what I'm the most confident shooting. Although I dislike Indoors, I'll do it for the discipline, knowing it gives me a strong start to outdoor season in the Spring.


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## lunger 66

That's interesting Corene. Many people on here have said the shoot better at the white bullseye. There must be something to it. I wonder if it's a mental thing, or if the color doesn't pop enough for an accurate sight picture? Lunger


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## lunger 66

Stephen, what's the spine roughly on 2314 arrows about 29 inches long? I have some, and wonder if they'd be good for anything I own. I think I had them for a compound about 20 yrs ago. Thanks, Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

lunger 66 said:


> Stephen, what's the spine roughly on 2314 arrows about 29 inches long? I have some, and wonder if they'd be good for anything I own. I think I had them for a compound about 20 yrs ago. Thanks, Lunger


I used them on 36# limbs with 200g points, and 4 x 4" fletchings. An ILF with elevated rest and plunger you can get something of a tune, gave me a 20y point on but it felt like I was lobbing telegraph poles downrange lol

2007 I picked up 3rd at IFAA world Indoors shooting low/mid 240's with my Field/3D setup, 50# 21st Edge and 11/32 POC's, the German who won was shooting 35# bow with full length Spruce arrows, he was shooting mid 250's with a 20y point on, it was great to watch a Longbow do that. Highest I ever saw in competition with IFAA Longbow was 265.

I've also won medals in World indoors in Bowhunter Rec and Barebow but never good enough to put the winner under serious threat lol 

To do it in 3 different shooting divs is a good personal achievement.


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## lunger 66

I bet you were! I was just looking mine over, and they feel heavy! Just wondering what spine they would be? Mark


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## Stephen Morley

lunger 66 said:


> I bet you were! I was just looking mine over, and they feel heavy! Just wondering what spine they would be? Mark


The pinnacle of my shooting would be to win World Indoors, I don't know of any Archer who has won World titles for Field, 3D and Indoors but this final challenge is proving very elusive to me.


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## yegon

lunger 66 said:


> Moog5050 helped me out with adjusting tiller, and finding the sweet spot for that portion of tune. The bow got a little quieter, and feels lighter in hand. I was able to hold it a little steadier, and scores jumped some.


details on the tiller work please please


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## lunger 66

Alright Yegon, Brian talked to me about tiller as far as noise reduction, and also adjusting it to my comfortable spot. Many bows are shot from 1/4 inch positive down to about zero, or equal tiller. He also mentioned its ok to run with some negative tiller, and that it can lighten the bow up in hand. When you have it right, you should be able to draw the bow back with it remaining on target, and not have to work to keep the bow up by lifting on it. The bow remains nice and level as you draw it, and it should stay on target with minimal effort. 
I shoot 3 under, and started with the bow a quarter positive and moved the tiller 1/8 at a time until I got to 1/4 negative. I settled on at 1/8 negative. The bow seemed quietest in this spot, and i'm able to draw it straight back without working to hold it up or down. It just pretty much wants to float for me with a little negative tiller. Don't expect miracles, but you can make the bow a little more comfortable to shoot, and maybe make it a bit quieter in the process. Lunger


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## lunger 66

Cubefx, look at your target. If you were hitting an inch further to the right, you would have had a couple 3s but also a BUNCH more 5s!!!!! Lunger


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## yegon

Thanks, I am shooting neutral tiller right now because I couldnt figure out what to do with it and why. I will play with this based on your post in a couple of weeks when I start to retune my bow from 40 meters to 18 for indoor.


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## rembrandt

I've got a question......I've always heard that you have to "pull thru the shot" for accuracy....that's well and good but can that also pull you off target too? I want to anchor, then use back tension by moving my shoulder around and lining up my elbow with the arrow but if I release when that is achieved and the string rolls off the tab, I get an arrow that drops into the 2 ring......I'm in a depressive state of languish trying to find the answer........

Dave


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## Stephen Morley

Dave pulling through can pull you off target. 

For me I imagine my expansion as a balanced 50/50 split, if I don't get the front end working equally I tend to pull the shot left and down. It's very subtle and natural feeling, I'm not trying to pull to conclusion just expanding the two forces away from each other does it for me, my conclusion just indicates that I got that balance perfect.

Sometimes the harder I try the more locked up I get, my focus is just to get the aim and 50/50 balance correct, everything else is on autopilot.


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## Draven Olary

rembrandt said:


> I've got a question......I've always heard that you have to "pull thru the shot" for accuracy....that's well and good but can that also pull you off target too? I want to anchor, then use back tension by moving my shoulder around and lining up my elbow with the arrow but if I release when that is achieved and the string rolls off the tab, I get an arrow that drops into the 2 ring......I'm in a depressive state of languish trying to find the answer........
> 
> Dave


For me pulling the string without pushing the bow toward the target is not working. It's a very subtle push, but the balance between push and pull is what makes the whole accurate for me. Is kind of natural, since at anchor the load is maximum --> bow hand is under a lot of pressure. If I don't push the bow toward the target the bow hand starts dancing. I don't believe in clean release without the subtle action of the bow hand, but this is me. The attention is in front, not in the rear. The rear follows, is not dictating for me.


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## Draven Olary

PS For me the anchor point is the point where on my anatomy the string hand elbow is aligned with the arrow and the back muscles are already engaged. To try to do other things than just "expanding" a bit to release while at anchor is way too much for me. Your millage may vary.


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## yegon

my translation of these terms
pull through the release = only relax the forearm (string arm) not the back when releasing the arrow, or in other words the backtension should stay the same or increase while I release the arrow
push the front hand = keep the front shoulder from creeping up but make sure the bowhand is relaxed from the elbow forward


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## lunger 66

That's right, Yegon. The back does the holding so you can relax the string hand and nothing else. Should still feel a little back tension even after the arrow is gone. Lunger


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## some guy

Wasn't able to shoot for a week, which is FOREVER in beginner time...

Shot 125 today.
Samick Sage, 25#, shooting off rest, crapy cheap no-name arrows from Cabellas (my coach has ordered Easton Eclispe for me)


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## davidflorida

haven't shot a round since I broke 250 with my excell , switched to my hunting rig since tradtech trident 19 inch riser 45 pound medium limbs , Easton axis arrows 125 grain point 75 grain insert full length . Last shoot before the hurricane hits us .


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## rembrandt

Well, I decided yesterday to shorten my anchor some and that gave me room to move my shoulder and elbow around into the back tension area that is so important for accuracy....I shot a 256 and then a 243 which was not bad for me.....I cut the bad shots down to 6 and in the second round down some to 11....I hope I can do even better with this new feel in my form.........proud of the 256.....


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## yegon

that is a great score rembrandt

especially after being "in a depressive state"


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## Draven Olary

rembrandt said:


> Well, I decided yesterday to shorten my anchor some and that gave me room to move my shoulder and elbow around into the back tension area that is so important for accuracy....I shot a 256 and then a 243 which was not bad for me.....I cut the bad shots down to 6 and in the second round down some to 11....I hope I can do even better with this new feel in my form.........proud of the 256.....


Grats! At one point fine tuning is about you, not the bow.


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## rembrandt

Draven Olary said:


> Grats! At one point fine tuning is about you, not the bow.


that is the truth for sure.....its my anchor and release that needs work.....I am not a fan of spot shooting, strictly instinctive shooting and I'm sure I will never reach the 260 or above......Its just too tough for my style but I want to aim at the X and not a POA a foot below the white.......that's just me!


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## rembrandt

yegon said:


> that is a great score rembrandt
> 
> especially after being "in a depressive state"


thanks.....my record is 259 and I doubt I will ever beat that..........


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## some guy

After my latest lesson (...if you can call "second" latest...) I shot 166. 

10,11,15,20,13,15,14,17,10,10,17,14


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## lunger 66

Didn't you shoot a 125, or something like that last time? Well done!!!!! That was a considerable jump in accuracy. Keep it going!!!!! Lunger


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## rembrandt

some guy said:


> After my latest lesson (...if you can call "second" latest...) I shot 166.
> 
> 10,11,15,20,13,15,14,17,10,10,17,14


I remember those days and they go by pretty fast.....You will top 200 soon and then it gets a little easier.....Believe me, you will do it.....just work on form, get that elbow lined up with the arrow and us back tension at release.....You can do it!


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## yegon

269 with 9x today

I shoot SF Axiom+ 25" riser with barebow weights (WA), SF Axiom+ #26 long limbs (#32 on the fingers), Shibuya plunger, Cartel magnetic rest, Easton Carbon one 600 spine arrows with 100 grain points

My main problem these days is that my crawls move after shooting for a while. After 40 or so arrows my groups move down on the target. I took a video of myself and the target today and will try to find out which part of my form is breaking down when I am fatigued. This is a big problem especially when shooting field or 3d where the distances change and I only shoot 1-4 arrows at one distance. Yesterday at my first 3d shoot after a year I shot all but 2 arrows high and overshot the target completely 3 times just because I established my crawls after shooting a bit and being fatigued and in the tourney we shot 1 arrow, than had 10 minute break so I was well rested. It was not pleasant


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## lunger 66

Sounds like you're collapsing a little as time goes on. You might be doing it with the string arm, bow arm, or a little of both. It's good that you can see the problem! Seeing the trouble means you can fix it. Lunger


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## some guy

@lunger @rembrant 
Thanks! This posting scores to anonymous people is surprisingly motivational. 

My coach gave me two small things to work on that were having a disproportionately large impact on my shot. And they were things I doubt I would ever have learned by watching videos of other people or reading about the steps in the shot. Next lesson I want to ask him about the fact that my release is something I do, not something that happens. If that makes sense.


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## yegon

didnt identify what part of my form collapses from the videos (will look at them again) but realized in horror that I open my fingers to release the string instead of letting the string open them - pinkie is the witness - more stuff to work on


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## Corene1

yegon said:


> 269 with 9x today
> 
> I shoot SF Axiom+ 25" riser with barebow weights (WA), SF Axiom+ #26 long limbs (#32 on the fingers), Shibuya plunger, Cartel magnetic rest, Easton Carbon one 600 spine arrows with 100 grain points
> 
> My main problem these days is that my crawls move after shooting for a while. After 40 or so arrows my groups move down on the target. I took a video of myself and the target today and will try to find out which part of my form is breaking down when I am fatigued. This is a big problem especially when shooting field or 3d where the distances change and I only shoot 1-4 arrows at one distance. Yesterday at my first 3d shoot after a year I shot all but 2 arrows high and overshot the target completely 3 times just because I established my crawls after shooting a bit and being fatigued and in the tourney we shot 1 arrow, than had 10 minute break so I was well rested. It was not pleasant


Here I go from left field again. I have noticed with my own form when I have a long day , anything over 100 scored arrows, that if my hand starts to relax a bit I lose yardage on my gaps. I shoot a medium wrist and occasionally I catch myself with more pressure on the lower palm than on the top of the thumb muscle where it should be. Probably not a good description but my hand will be at a slightly more upright angle . This shortens the actual draw a bit and slows the arrow speed a couple of feet per second.


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## yegon

yes Corene1 bowgrip pressure is definitely part of the problem for me too, especially with me stringwalking which changes the feel of the grip on different distances a lot - it is hard enough to build consistency at one distance, crawling down 2 inches and you feel like you are holding a different bow all of a sudden


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## yegon

so the main culprit has been found (hopefully). It seems my drawlenght was changing by as much as 1/2 to 1 inch due to change in my head position. Threw on an olympic style clicker to train some more consistency into me and boy is it frustrating  one arrow I cant get through the damn thing the next one I plow through well before I am at anchor. On the other hand it makes me happy to see how much I can improve if I stick to it


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## Corene1

yegon said:


> so the main culprit has been found (hopefully). It seems my drawlenght was changing by as much as 1/2 to 1 inch due to change in my head position. Threw on an olympic style clicker to train some more consistency into me and boy is it frustrating  one arrow I cant get through the damn thing the next one I plow through well before I am at anchor. On the other hand it makes me happy to see how much I can improve if I stick to it


 They are a great training aid, but oh so frustrating at times.


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## yegon

new PB today 281 14x

it did not start that well but the last 4 ends were 25, 24, 25 and 24 for a total of 98 - I cant believe it - stoked


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## lunger 66

That is awesome! !!!!!!! My record on 4 ends was also a pair of 25s and 24s, for a 98. Keep it up! Lunger


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## yegon

272 12x today

I am working on my release, noticed on video that my hand was jumping off my face, I tried concentrating on letting the string open my fingers, feeling like I just draw them through the string - somewhat like playing a harp. I saw immediate group improvement at 40 meters but it did not translate to a scoring 20 yard round - I guess the change is still new and once I start concentrating on aiming I try too much and do not release as cleanly. Anyway the release looks much better on video and even on the 20 yard round I got glimpses of what i might be capable of if i do everything right. One more thing I noticed - it seemed to be beneficial to slow the release down a little bit - I guess I put error into the string if I try to do it as quickly as possible.


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## yegon

174 14x

tried a short stab for the first time today - did not feel much difference other than the bow flying out of my hand differently after the shot. A couple of good shots, but mostly small mistakes either collapsing, bad releases or bow hand input into the shot. Sometimes I wonder why I score so high with so many mistakes and imperfections


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## yegon

yegon said:


> 174 14x
> 
> tried a short stab for the first time today - did not feel much difference other than the bow flying out of my hand differently after the shot. A couple of good shots, but mostly small mistakes either collapsing, bad releases or bow hand input into the shot. Sometimes I wonder why I score so high with so many mistakes and imperfections


I meant 274 14x


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## centershot

258 15X w/ Satori, 35# limbs off the shelf, no stabilizer. Couple of poor shots but overall target looked good with shots centered over the white. Just need to tighten things up a bit.


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## lunger 66

That's a great score off the shelf, and no stab, Trent.


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## centershot

Trying to decide if I want to add a rest/plunger and stabilizer for winter leagues. Probably should, I need all the help I can get. But, there is something about shooting a bow with as few gadgets as possible that is intriguing...... Will most likely depend on if my buddies are whipping me or not! lol.


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## lunger 66

Swing first! Through all that stuff on, lol!!!!! I do know what you mean. I like shooting my longbow, and another recurve that are bare. It's fun in it's own way. Lunger


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## rembrandt

shot a 257 yesterday.....I raised my anchor some and now I'm looking down the shaft more so I went to 10 yds to see where my point of aim is and its about 3 inches under the X so I tried it....(split vision) and it works when I release properly.......I'm going to try it again this morning.......I still had 12 teenagers but my twenties went up....9...That helps.....Xs 12.....


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## Mike Lawless

I got my first official score last night at the local shops indoor league. Rather humbling. Much like the first time I ever played golf. 

I was pretty apprehensive for the first several flights (ten flights of three arrows), as I was the only bare bow recurve shooter and one of two "newbies." I already have some flaws in my form, and some were magnified because of my nervousness of shooting in close quarters and felt a lot of eyes on me. Everybody was pretty friendly and encouraging tho. I finally began settling down by the seventh flight, but the damage was done. My score was 168. On the plus side, I got some advice from one of the shop shooters, so now I have something to work on. I was dropping my bow arm right after the release. I also know that I was torqueing with my bow hand grip on at least one of every three. 

So, now that I have the first one out of the way, I have a goal!


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## yegon

well shot Mike, once the nervous jitters are out you will see what you are really capable of, well, you wont because you will be improving too quickly to catch what your maximum really is for some time  good luck


rembrandt seems like someone was full of it a couple weeks back 



> my record is 259 and I doubt I will ever beat that


it looks to me like you are well on your way to do just that


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## Mike Lawless

yegon said:


> well shot Mike, once the nervous jitters are out you will see what you are really capable of, well, you wont because you will be improving too quickly to catch what your maximum really is for some time  good luck.


Thanks yegon! I reckon it would be a never ending pursuit for improvement, as you say. I think in the short term, it'll be about turning the "1's" into "5's", which is also much like golf. In golf, the big tee shot will get you halfway there, but the short game is where scoring improvements really come from.

And, we are never really satisfied, are we?....unless we're driving arrows into the nocks of other arrows!


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## Draven Olary

236 with 1960 Kodiak #[email protected]" (#50 at my DL) and CE 3050, 455gr (9.1gpp) - today
232 with DH Mamba #[email protected] and CE 4560, 470gr (8.6gpp) - Friday
I shoot "instinctive" of the shelf (if feather rest from Kodiak can be included in off the shelf category). I can see these numbers improving if I spend more time in front of the paper target, but good weather is better used for 3D shooting. When I go back indoor I will try this 300 round more often. 
When I will have new arrows for my #[email protected] I will do a 300 round with it.


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## FLlongshot

Finally getting back to some indoor. I shot 255 on the 40cm Fita face today with my WA legal barebow ie: no stab or accessories, just a 12oz X spot weight off a springy rest.


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## cubefx

I am out of the shooting 300 rounds for now. Busted my arrows. Only two shootable arrows left. Time to order more.


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## Corene1

I did some changes on the indoor bow today, trying to get away from having to shoot a small crawl to get a closer point on distance. Ended up with a 68 inch overall bow with a rest and plunger and a 10 inch stabilizer keeping it NFAA trad legal. 28 pounds on the fingers and a total arrow weight of 357 grains. ACC 3-04 with 100 grain tip and 4 inch feathers, shooting 3 under with the index finger touching the nock. After some tuning I managed to shoot a 276. I am thinking the point on will be in the lower to mid 30 yard range as the gap in the window was right at 1/2 inch. I will find out next weekend when I go up to the range.


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## lunger 66

You must be holding about 6 oclock on the blue, Corene? If you could get something tuned with a heavier point weight, it might help you out some. I'm going to be holding 6 oclock on the white with my new arrows, it looks like. I'm close to being happy with the tune now. Lunger


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> You must be holding about 6 oclock on the blue, Corene? If you could get something tuned with a heavier point weight, it might help you out some. I'm going to be holding 6 oclock on the white with my new arrows, it looks like. I'm close to being happy with the tune now. Lunger


 Well there is the problem, ACC glue in points only go to 100 grains. I guess I could try to find a screw in insert that would fit. Maybe one from a 1813 or something in that range then I could go to a 9/32 screw in at 125 point but the setup right now is just shooting phenomenally. Bare shafts are grouping right in with the fletched shafts. I was shooting 3 fletched and 2 bare shafts per end while tuning and they were just perfect. I think it will work out well but time will tell. I really have never been a fan of string walking not that I haven't done it but I like my finger to rest against the nock that way no mistakes on the crawl distance. I also like to keep the arrow speed at a crisp pace, not real fast but crisp.
As far as where I am holding on the target that doesn't come into play . I shoot gap in the riser window not gap on the target face I do find myself blending the two for 20 yards though, and as time progresses I will find an aiming spot but for me , if I focus on the tip of the arrow and a particular spot my left and right suffers a bit. My focus is more concentrated on the spot. I am going to give this a serious try though I know I can shoot better I just haven't concentrated on 20 yard only shooting, My first love is field shooting. I shot a tournament 2 weeks ago where the shortest target was 3-1/2 yards and the size of a dime, and the furthest was 104 yards and managed a spot and a wound for 19 out of 22 possible points on that target. 2 arrows per target and 60 targets on a roving field range with a bunch of uphill and down hill shots for a finish score of 1117 with only 4 missed arrows.


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## lunger 66

Yep, I remember you being a distance shooter. You certainly helped me out when I was shooting hunter and animal in an outdoor league. I took your advice and began using different aiming points on the riser, shelf, plunger, ect. It got me by some compound shooters, and that was really fun! Mark


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## yegon

after changing my form and working on it for a week on blank bale exclusively I tried myself at the 20 yard line again - oh boy - dont remember shooting so badly in a long time 

262 14x

Part of it is for sure the new form not being ingrained yet, another part probably the inch gained on my drawlength and corresponding poundage increase that seems to have moved my arrows (that were underspined before) over the edge. Checked with a bareshaft and it was hitting an inch right at 20 yards - not from my group though, from the paper . Did have a couple 24s though, but also a 17.

me sucking is also an option of course


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## Stephen Morley

Shot my first Indoor WA 18m today 530. I made a couple of tweaks to my Form after watching Jake Kaminski's NTS online workshop on Sunday, just small adjustment to pressure point on my grip and string fingers, seems to be working nicely but need a little more time for it to ingrain.

I had a lot of arrows 6 O'clock low in the 9/8 zone, I'm used to shooting Lollypop aim bottom of the yellow but it seems I need to either adjust my crawl or aim bottom of 10 ring now, I got a little stronger at the end when I could get my arrow bottom of 10 but I'm so used to aiming bottom of yellow it took a bit of work to adjust.

I'm still using my 40# Field/3D setup, no plans to go lighter draw weight this Indoor season

After shooting so much 3D this season I forgot how much harder it feels to aim at a yellow spot


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## centershot

Shot 383/450 5X on the Vegas Face last night (8.5 average). We shoot 450 Vegas rounds (45 arrows 10 points possible each on the 40cm face @ 20 yds) until Feb then switch over to the NFAA face. Had one poor shot on a collapse and shot a 5 other than that kept them all red or better. Shooting the Satori w/ 35# limbs - I did break down and add a rest/plunger and a 10" stabilizer. Little doubt they help with some consistency.


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## Corene1

Congratulations, those FITA targets are hard to aim at for some reason. Don't know if anyone else has that problem but my scores drop a bit when aiming at them . The blue face is easy to aim at as well as the NFAA field and hunter faces and the WA field faces are nice also , but that multi color face is hard to focus on.


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## centershot

Pretty common issue - they are also a little less forgiving of score as shots on the outer part of the color ring score a point less. Oh well, it's all fun.


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## Demmer3

What center shot said... Fita targets are a little harder to score, but ya gotta keep that in mind. For example, I shoot a lot of 290-294 with the WA barebow on the blue and white, and they are usually 560-570 on the fita. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Stephen Morley

Awesome scores John

I only get to shoot indoors a couple of times a month so I wont beat myself up on my scores, it just wont happen without a *lot* more time on the shooting line. 540 is pretty good for me and 285 on IFAA, those scores wont set the BB world on fire but they are respectable for me.


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## lunger 66

Forgive my ignorance, is the fita target you guys are talking about known as the Vegas? I normally shoot high 270s to low 280s on the blue face, but 250 to 260 on the Vegas target with all the colors. Thanks, Lunger


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## lunger 66

You guys are coming up with different numbers all together, like 540. Guess you're shooting a different game?


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## yegon

yeah lunger, its fita 600 round - vegas target

my pb on that one is 526 I think


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## lunger 66

Thanks, ill research all that shortly. Winter wheat is seeded now, and my fall work is winding down. I'm having back surgery soon, so I can read all winter while recovering. Mark


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## Demmer3

It's a fita face that is shot at Vegas. Not a Vegas face [emoji12]. [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## yegon

dont you have a saying "America first" John ?


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## yegon

Stephen Morley said:


> watching Jake Kaminski's NTS online workshop)


thank you for mentioning this, dont know why FB didnt show this to me, I would have missed it - just started watching and it looks great


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## Buurz

Hi, how do i translate scores from WA 6 ring target (which has X, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5 rings) to the NFAA scores? I assume i should be using 40 cm target?

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk


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## yegon

yes 40 cm target

yellow = X + 10 + 9 ring = 5 points (X+10 rings count as an X but still 5 points)
red = 8 + 7 ring = 4 points
blue = 6 + 5 ring = 3 points

if you have the full target then black is 2 points and white 1 point


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## Buurz

yegon said:


> yes 40 cm target
> 
> yellow = X + 10 + 9 ring = 5 points (X+10 rings count as an X but still 5 points)
> red = 8 + 7 ring = 4 points
> blue = 6 + 5 ring = 3 points
> 
> if you have the full target then black is 2 points and white 1 point


Thanks - but wouldn't that give me higher scores than NFAA face which goes from 5-1 on the same size target face?


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## yegon

well of course it does

for me 60 arrows WA scoring is around 520 points and 60 arrows NFAA scoring around 270 points


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## centershot

Buurz said:


> Thanks - but wouldn't that give me higher scores than NFAA face which goes from 5-1 on the same size target face?


Typical 'Vegas' round is still a total of 300 points possible. You only shoot 30 arrows worth a maximum of 10 points each. That goes a little to quickly so we shoot another 150 game and add it to the 300 shooting a Vegas 450 round.


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## lunger 66

That makes sense. I'm familiar with the 30 arrow vegas round. I don't score as well on it as the blue face though. Lunger


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## Corene1

If you want to shoot an NFAA round and only have a 40 cm FITA target on hand . score it 5 for gold, 4 for red, 3 for blue, 2 for black ,and 1 for white, . and shoot 12 ends of 5 arrows. 
I have to agree the FITA face is harder to shoot at than the blue face NFAA target but both are 40 cm. The NFAA hunter and field targets are 35 cm and score 5 for spot 4 for the middle ring and 3 for the outer ring. and are shot out to a distance of 34 yards. The FITA field target stands alone on the dimensions of the scoring rings as far as I can tell.


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## Draven Olary

After one hour of 3D I played with 300 round. Sunny but windy, the target face had the centre 2 feet above ground and shooting @20 yards my '60 Kodiak, #[email protected] (#50 at my DL) with the same CE 3050 9gpp arrows. 77/79/84 for a 240 total.


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## lunger 66

Thanks Corene. I recognize the hunter target from the league I shot. Lunger


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## lunger 66

Draven, what kind of score would you expect shooting same 300 round instinctive, with a 35lb bow with stab? Do you think it'd help, or be about the same with the instinctive style of shooting? Thanks, Lunger


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## Draven Olary

I didn't counted my ends and I shot more than 12. When I checked the pictures for score, after I calculated the 12 ends, the extra 4 were all in the 20-24 range. I assume that the more I shoot same distance the better I might get. I will let you know when I will go indoor with proper height for target and less wind interference. This #50 feels like a #35 after I shoot the #74 yesterday, so I don't think lowering the poundage might change something. I am waiting for new arrows for my #74 - I want to do 300 with it.


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## grantmac

Keep in mind in an official round the target height changes at the mid point. Either from the top position to bottom or vice versa. It's throws some people off.


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## Draven Olary

I will Grantmac, thanks for info. I think I am used to the change because the 20 targets 3D course I shoot regularly has 5 pairs of targets (from same stake 2 different animals at different distances). But once indoor, I will see what's happening.


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## yegon

262 13x

to get my older 500 spine arrows to tune I had to go up in weight, currently shooting #39 and it is just too much for me right now (shot #30 the whole year and #32 last month). I was collapsing a lot but when I did what I was supposed to do the arrows flew well. I will try to get used to the weight in the next two weeks before my first indoor competition, if it doesnt work I will drop back down to #30 and my 600 spine arrows and do a slower poundage buildup by alternating a heavy and lighter bow when my new riser arrives. I might not need to go as high as I will also be buying new arrows.

At the end i tried a couple of shots with a 30" stabilizer - I was actually surprised how much it helps with the sight picture - the point of my arrow was hardly moving. The group was not smaller, but I was very tired at that point.


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## centershot

376/450 @ Vegas league last night. For those of you that have never done it, shooting a league is a very interesting event. Lining up with 20 other archers, being boxed into a little 3' lane, noise, commotion, waiting for other archers, waiting to shoot, scoring, being scored by others, switching up or down at the half way mark all makes for quite a different event than shooting in the back yard or barn. Any and all of which can get you out of your comfort zone. Highly recommended.


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## Mike Lawless

centershot said:


> 376/450 @ Vegas league last night. For those of you that have never done it, shooting a league is a very interesting event. Lining up with 20 other archers, being boxed into a little 3' lane, noise, commotion, waiting for other archers, waiting to shoot, scoring, being scored by others, switching up or down at the half way mark all makes for quite a different event than shooting in the back yard or barn. Any and all of which can get you out of your comfort zone. Highly recommended.


Yeah, I did it for the first time a couple weeks ago. It DEFINITELY took me out of my comfort zone.


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## Mike Lawless

Last night at our local league night, they switched things up by using the NFAA targets and scoring. Twelve ends of five arrows. I don't know what happened between last week (164 on a FITA target) and this week. Maybe I'm just getting more comfortable and less jittery. I shot 251. 

Had to be an anomaly!


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## yegon

wow

301 next week


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## Mike Lawless

301. Ha! That would be the best score EVER!

Anyway, like I said, had to have been an anomaly. I woulda been happy just crackin' 200. That would be "On Par" with shooting a sub 100 round of golf for a rookie. 

The shop owner who manages the league was telling me that these rounds will establish my "handicap" (i'm assuming a lot like amateur golf) which will allow those (and i quote) "who um.....shoot like you do, to be competitive with a 290 shooter."

So while I was happy with the result, it's likely gonna affect my handicap. But then my first two were pretty crappy, so I reckon it will all average out OK in the end!


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## yegon

there are no "anomalies" this big man


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## Draven Olary

Strange weather. Most of the week we had around 7C degrees max, very windy - I trained in basement at 12 paces for pinpoint accuracy almost all week - and today was sunny and 18C. I went to the club to do the usual 3d training but since I've received new arrows for my '76 Super Kodiak, I did a 300 round too - I think I will introduce this in my training weekly. 
78/82/87 for 247/300 with '76 Super Kodiak, #[email protected]" (my DL is 28.25") and Fleetwood 350 arrows (around 9.4gpp).


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## grantmac

Usually score difference from FITA to NFAA is maybe 15-20 points or so. So whatever you did do it again.


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## centershot

361/450 last night at leagues, ugh.......shoot good for the first half, then at the switch I struggled to make good shots. Lost a little confidence in my shot and it showed. Maybe I need to shoot more than once a week? Oh well, still a good time.


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## yegon

275/12 with my new baby 27" Gillo









not bad for me after a week of not shooting. I did not expect much from the riser change but after shooting it I have a very good feeling. It felt more stable, no random flyers like before. For the first time the result seemed to be entirely about whats going on in my head at the time of the shot. I am curious of what I can do with this bow once I am back into the regular training and finish tuning the arrows. Lets hope its not just the new equipment syndrome


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## lunger 66

Nice! Looking forward to more updates. Lunger


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## FLlongshot

Very nice riser!


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## grantmac

Shot a 257 Vegas last night. Only shooting once or twice a week so progress is slow. I'd like to hit a 270 again someday.


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## lunger 66

You will Grant. I have total faith, lol! Mark


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## centershot

grantmac said:


> Shot a 257 Vegas last night. Only shooting once or twice a week so progress is slow. I'd like to hit a 270 again someday.


Have the same issue with my shooting, just too much going on to get in any practice. Oh well, that's what leagues are for anyway. Not shooting more than once a week does show on the bottom line though.


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## yegon

I would love to shoot 270 on a vegas round one day too


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## lunger 66

I haven't been shooting much. Doctor is trying a last ditch effort with si joint injections before having to redo my spinal fusion at l5s1. If these injections work, surgery will be called off. So far, I can't tell any improvement with the first injection. I have 640 more acres to plow before fall work is over, and the bad weather sets in. Doc says to stay off the tractor for at least a month, lol!!!! Anyway, if i'm able i'll shoot with you guys again soon. Lunger


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## yegon

good luck, hope you get better soon


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## lunger 66

Thanks yegon, I better go get on the tractor, lol!!!!


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## grantmac

yegon said:


> I would love to shoot 270 on a vegas round one day too


Been there before but I could practice 7 days a week then, not so much now.


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## FLlongshot

Indoor league starts in a few weeks so I'm getting back to it. Shot 16x 272 on the blue face a little while ago. Not happy with the arrows have some shafts on the way, hoping for great things!


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## lunger 66

Great x count!


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## yegon

first indoor tourney went terrible, shot 463/600 (60 arrows vegas face) thats about 60 points behind my training scores - all in the head, not sure why I was so nervous


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## lunger 66

Yegon, are u still shooting at a 3 inch bullseye valued at 5 points on your vegas face?


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## lunger 66

I meant like the blue faced target dimensions. 3 inch for 5 points, 6 inch for 4 points...... Lunger


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## yegon

that would be really hard lunger  how could i do 463 points in 60 arrows that way?  

no this is the standard wolrd archery / fita indoor round as described a bit above same size target as the blueface but all rings are split in half into 2 scoring rings and maximum score per arrow is 10 points for the NFAA X


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## yegon

my score would be an equivalent of about 240 NFAA - so sad


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## lunger 66

Yegon, you're not as bad off as you think then. It's normal to be about 20 points off of your blue faced target average. You should have shot about a 250 on the Vegas target, because you normally shoot about a 270 on the blueface targets. I was told this, and sure enough they were right. I scored 250 with my hunting bow on the Vegas target, and a good 10 points higher with my indoor bow on vegas. I typically shoot my indoor bow in the high270s to the low 280s, so the 20 points off figure is about right. 
You shot a good 10 points down from where you should have been. I'm sure it was mental, because you have too high of an average to have form problems. Walk back in there with some confidence, and get your 10 points back next time. It's obvious you can do it. Lunger


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## comprar

Usually score difference from FITA to NFAA is maybe 15-20 points or so.


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## yegon

lunger i never shoot under 500 in training, usually well over 510 so this was quite a huge drop for me, especially after already shooting over 500 in competition last season and expecting to do much better this year, funny thing is as I just found out, I came in second by one point - so everybody was having trouble

I did some form work today and it seems like my time off serious training has done a number on my posture at full draw, it didnt show in practice but put a little pressure on me and everything falls apart - happy to get back into it, I am pretty sure I will shoot much better next time


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## lunger 66

Right. I was figuring 250 and 250 for 500. And a 240 would be 10 points off the half..... I'm on the same page, just should've worded it different. Good luck to you! Lunger


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## grantmac

On the WA/Vegas face I always drop a lot of points off of my practice scores, more than with the NFAA. I used to shoot around 520-530 WA in practice but never over 500 in competition. My best single round NFAA was the same for practice and competition but the X count was way down.


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## cubefx

My 11 years old just shot his first proper 60 arrows, 20 yard, blue face 300 round. Did much better than I expected. Few 17th and some above 20 rounds. One 24. Finished with 235.









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## yegon

thats a much better looking target than mine yesterday 

you must be proud, in Slovakia he would win everything shooting like this at his age


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## lunger 66

That's outstanding! !!!!!!! Lunger


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## Draven Olary

Indoor shooting started and I did today for the first time a 300 round with my heaviest bow: #[email protected], GT trad. 340 arrows 560gr (7.6gpp) 226/300 (19-18-18-22-18-19-16-20-17-20-20-19) - 7x between them. Nothing to call home about, but this bow shows me how important are the little things like breathing and taking your time between shots. Being in line just with compound shooters shooting Vegas rounds makes things really interesting. But 300 round is a very good training tool.


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## mdrnsamurai

I know it isn't an NFAA. But, the first indoor tournament was this past weekend a FITA 600 and I shot a 311. (147/164) Which was good enough for 1st in my Division (Senior Male) and 3rd in the entire Barebow Class.


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## yegon

nice, what equipment were you shooting?


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## Stephen Morley

Last 3-4 weeks I pulled my Form apart and rebuilt it, I wanted a stronger shot to soak up those not so good releases. I decided not to drop weight and will stay with 42# for indoors, I had some frustrating days and some good days. I decided to see how the changes cope with shots with a score value attached. 279 on the blue face, not quite there yet but going the right direction. Just need to ingrained the change for a little more confidence. Maybe I'll torture myself a little more tomorrow lol


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## Stephen Morley

Shot my lighter Mk1440 limbs today (39# OTF) meds are a little smoother to shoot, the K7's aren't as smooth but the tune is spot on so still can't make my mind up. 286 today, with a little work I can do that with the 42# K7's


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## Demmer3

Stephen Morley said:


> Shot my lighter Mk1440 limbs today (39# OTF) meds are a little smoother to shoot, the K7's aren't as smooth but the tune is spot on so still can't make my mind up. 286 today, with a little work I can do that with the 42# K7's


I'm shooting 43# super well right now. I don't know if I will after I stop shooting my hunting bow which is a little big heavier. 
286 aint too shabby!

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## Stephen Morley

Demmer3 said:


> I'm shooting 43# super well right now. I don't know if I will after I stop shooting my hunting bow which is a little big heavier.
> 286 aint too shabby!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Thanks John, Indoor rounds seen to be my nemesis and really struggle to shoot good scores, it's frustrating when you shoot good at Field/3D because there should be no reason not to. So when I do shoot respectable Indoor scores it gives me the most satisfaction knowing I'm on top of it. 
Every Indoor season I mess up my head by March/April, yet it bugs me so much that I cannot crack this issue I come back for more punishment every season lol


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## lunger 66

A 286 is exceptional! !!!! I'm looking forward to doing that in the future. Back surgery should be coming in about a month, so I don't know how long i'll be delayed. Super exited to start in again though. Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

lunger 66 said:


> A 286 is exceptional!


Depends on the shooting style, Barebow it's not exceptional, Timo Leskinen consistently shoots over 290 in competition, that's exceptional.


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## lunger 66

Guess a 286 would be exceptional for me. A 282 with 20x, is the best i've done so far. My goal was to get a 290 before winter was over, but now my surgery has to be redone. Don't know how long it'll set me back. I really like shooting the blueface targets. Mark


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## lunger 66

I have a new set of maxima rz arrows all tuned up, and they're proving to be slightly more forgiving than my other arrows. Thanks for the help Demmer!


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## welkin25

It's been a long time since I first/last posted (which was ~100 pts out of 30 arrows on 18m fita half a year ago). I'm now shooting an average of ~8. Improvement was fast with such a low starting point, but now it's slowed down. Hope to still improve a bit more before the indoor tournaments though!


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## mdrnsamurai

I had that mindset as well. I called it Low and No! "Low Expectations and No Expectations!" Two things that helped me immediately was watching "The Push 1.4 - Becoming an Ironmind" https://youtu.be/4c5JgzszLG0 and Masters of the Barebow Vol 3 (Rod Jenkins) section. Keep Shooting!


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## Stephen Morley

I think more than anything Indoor rounds just bore the crap out of me. When I lived in UK I never did them because the weather was mild enough to shoot outside all year, here I don't have that luxury as it's known to drop as low as -37C although thankfully that's not normal. End of the season I see my scores dropping off and I'm dreaming of shooting in the woods and to get back on track with my Indoor rounds that's exactly what I do, regardless of the temperature. Indoors is just something I do to keep my Form and not to freeze my butt off.


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## DwayneR

Stephen Morley said:


> Last 3-4 weeks I pulled my Form apart and rebuilt it, I wanted a stronger shot to soak up those not so good releases. I decided not to drop weight and will stay with 42# for indoors, I had some frustrating days and some good days. I decided to see how the changes cope with shots with a score value attached. 279 on the blue face, not quite there yet but going the right direction. Just need to ingrained the change for a little more confidence. Maybe I'll torture myself a little more tomorrow lol





Stephen Morley said:


> Shot my lighter Mk1440 limbs today (39# OTF) meds are a little smoother to shoot, the K7's aren't as smooth but the tune is spot on so still can't make my mind up. 286 today, with a little work I can do that with the 42# K7's


Fantastic Job Steve. . . I have shot every score from 270 to 279. . .until my accident. Just couldn't hit that 280. I used a barebow Sky conquest with graphite limbs. . 31 pounds. I am toast now. . . Just have good memories. stopped coaching around here too.


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## GoofyArcher

I shoot in 252 to 262 most the time. 
My 15 year old shoots anywhere from 280 to 300. (20 meter)
below is a 20 meter target he shot at 37 meters.


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## mdrnsamurai

Friday Night Trad Shoot with friends 230/300 4-X's 18-5s with a miss. Huge PB for me.


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## Draven Olary

GoofyArcher said:


> I shoot in 252 to 262 most the time.
> My 15 year old shoots anywhere from 280 to 300. (20 meter)
> below is a 20 meter target he shot at 37 meters.
> 
> [iurl="http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=6289833&stc=1&d=1509746730"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]


Grats! Is he shooting compound since the fletching looks like vanes?


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## GoofyArcher

yes those are some old arrow, not his toureeee set


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## Draven Olary

Ok, I imagined. The numbers you saw around here are with barebow or hunting bows - recurve or longbow - not compounds.


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## lunger 66

I wanna hear more about mdrnsamurai. He just shot a personal best of 230, and sounds exited. My money says he starts heading up, and quickly. Well done, and i'm routing for you! Lunger


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## DwayneR

Draven Olary said:


> Ok, I imagined. The numbers you saw around here are with barebow or hunting bows - recurve or longbow - not compounds.


Mine are barebow, blackface 300 point.


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## Corene1

DwayneR said:


> Mine are barebow, blackface 300 point.


Never heard of a blackface indoor target . Only blackface I know of are the hunter targets used in NFAA hunter rounds in 20cm, 35cm,50cm, and 65cm sizes. The one on the upper right?


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## FLlongshot

I got my new shafts all fletched up and decided to give stringwalking an honest go. I worked on my crawl last night a little and set out this afternoon to score a round and see what's what. Well, I shot 275, 17x. The precision is there, had some horizontal issues that just need some time behind the string to work out. Things are looking up.


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## granite14

I was feeling pretty good tonight about a blue face 274, 10X until I converted it to a FITA score of 511 which is not my best. Still though, I was happy with most of my execution though. I think i flipped my release occasionally but realized right away and corrected. Haven't posted in this thread in awhile.

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## yegon

very nice guys, winter is coming - big scores popping up


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## lunger 66

You guys are doing great! Keep it up! Lunger


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## Corene1

yegon said:


> very nice guys, winter is coming - big scores popping up


Maybe that is why indoor isn't real big around here, not cold enough to have to go indoors. Shot a NFAA field round yesterday (426) and it was a nice sunny 72 degrees at the range. Perfect weather for shooting


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## Stephen Morley

Shot a 531 on WA 18m. I'm on the 43# K7's which I normally only shoot outside, scores are pretty much same as lighter draw limbs, feels like harder work but scores are close. Think I can do better but it's going to take some disciplined work.


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## yegon

Corene1 over 400 IFAA field round is another dream of mine  current PB at 359 - unfortunately I only get to shoot it 1-2 a year and the longer distances are just a shoot-and-pray kind of deal for me


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## Corene1

yegon said:


> Corene1 over 400 IFAA field round is another dream of mine  current PB at 359 - unfortunately I only get to shoot it 1-2 a year and the longer distances are just a shoot-and-pray kind of deal for me


It really is not a difficult round once you get the bow set up properly. There are a ton of reference points on the bow once you get past the point on distance. Look for a fast arrow and a point on of around 40 to 45 yards then use the rest and the plunger button as well as the front and back shelf for reference points for the longer distances. I have 8 different reference points for the distances past point on including the back shelf for 80 yards. I use an older Hoyt Avalon plus riser for field as the shelf is cut a bit lower than most newer risers which makes the back shelf point on for 80yards and the front shelf point on for 70 yards.


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## yegon

Yeah you say its not difficult yet I have seen a 400 score shot once in my life and it was by a foreign shooter. Apparently nobody in my country can do it . And we really didnt have any shots at over 20 degree angle.


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## Stephen Morley

I shot a 444 Hunter at this years Nationals, tradition here it means I have to buy Beers for my shooting group. On home range I've occasionally hit 460 but 440 is about average for me Barebow with 60y point on. I did a 440 record in Bowhunter div but it's easier to consistently shoot 400+ Stringwalking.


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## Stephen Morley

Paul Meeson from UK set new Longbow record (wood arrows/split finger) of 401 on Hunter round, as far as I know he's the only one to officially shoot over 400.


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## Corene1

yegon said:


> Yeah you say its not difficult yet I have seen a 400 score shot once in my life and it was by a foreign shooter. Apparently nobody in my country can do it . And we really didnt have any shots at over 20 degree angle.


Over here Sandy McCain holds the female trad recurve records with a 433 field round a 445 hunter round and a 524 animal round. on The mens trad recurve shows Allen Eagleton has the field at 476 and the hunter at 486 while Gary McCain has the animal record at 532. Here is the link https://www.nfaausa.com/wp-content/uploads/outdoor-records-2016-Sheet1-1.pdf.


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## Stephen Morley

Shot with Gary and Sandy at NAFAC, great people and awesome shots, Sandy was on fire that weekend and was a joy watching her form.


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## Corene1

Stephen Morley said:


> Shot with Gary and Sandy at NAFAC, great people and awesome shots, Sandy was on fire that weekend and was a joy watching her form.


Yes they are very nice folks . I have worked for Gary for 38 years now and he has always been nothing but helpful and informative. He was the one that taught me about shooting the Gap in the riser window way back in the late 70's.


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## centershot

375/450 Vegas last night at leagues. Felt pretty good, did have one collapse and stuck one in the black, ugh. Had a couple in the blue, but mostly red or better. I shoot NFAA Trad legal. Finger touching the nock, short stabilizer, hoyt superest and shorty plunger (Satori w/ 35# limbs and long 2114 arrows). I am seriously considering taking all that stuff off and just shooting off the shelf. That usually costs me a few points but I like to shoot that way.


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## lunger 66

I thought each vegas round was worth 300 points, for 30 shots. Don't understand the 450 thing, Trent?


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## Draven Olary

You can shoot 45 shots for 450 max points and 60 shots for 600 points max


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## DwayneR

Corene1 said:


> Never heard of a blackface indoor target . Only blackface I know of are the hunter targets used in NFAA hunter rounds in 20cm, 35cm,50cm, and 65cm sizes. The one on the upper right?
> View attachment 6291113


Bottom right.. .5 point . . 300 round. . 12 sets of 5 arrows.


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## centershot

lunger 66 said:


> I thought each vegas round was worth 300 points, for 30 shots. Don't understand the 450 thing, Trent?


1.5 rounds - 30 arrows goes too fast, 60 arrows goes too slow - so we shoot a 45 arrow 450 round. Fairly common. You are correct in the official 'Vegas' round will be and is a 30 arrow per day event.


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## lunger 66

Ok, makes sense now. Thanks


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## Draven Olary

Tonight I did a 300 round with my 1976 Super Kodiak, #[email protected]" with Fleetwood 350 (527gr arrow) and I used for the first time the Target Tracker app.
I can't define the way I am aiming yet, is intuitive gap/split vision kind of thing. I found some vintage ACCRA 300 hunting stabilizers - 12oz for 4" length. I bought the last 2 for my SS and Mamba. When I will get them in mail I will use them to see what this can do.


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## FLlongshot

The failing daylight is killing me! Only had time for 30 before dark so I shot a Fita 300. 264, 4x.


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## davidflorida

Right there with ya lee , just got home . To late. See ya at league next week 


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## FLlongshot

Hey David, I'll be there!


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## GoofyArcher

ill shoot 275 to 280 on a 300 course.
My brat kiddo shots over 290 and has shoot 300's many times 15 year old

but on a 450 up to 600 his scores drop like a rock. Cant shoot many more than 12 round of 5. Might drop DW by 5lbs or so.


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## Draven Olary

Just a thought about 300 round, since you guys "made" me do it. I've read a lot on this forum topics pro and cons about 300 round. Hunters are saying you don't need to shoot 300 since no deer will stay for 5 arrows in a row and target archers are saying the 300 scores are a measure of your shooting. For me 300 round is a training tool that helps me to keep in check the distance between where I want to hit and where the arrow actually hits - every time, every arrow. When spring comes I will try to do 300 rounds from 25, 30,35 and 40 yards.


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## centershot

Draven, that is exactly what it's all about. I think we would all like to be out on a nice sunny day shooting our bows, but these indoor rounds help keep us sharp and hone our skills on the days that are not so nice and sunny. If you can stick 60 arrows into a 5" circle at 20 yards, then odds are very good that when you take a shot at a deer at 20 yards that arrow will still be within that 5" circle, maybe even tighter as you have gained confidence shooting targets. Some will never understand (admit) to that and so be it.


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## Draven Olary

I know centershot, but I am quite baffled how much magical thinking like "under pressure you will do much better" is actually ruling these days.


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## lunger 66

Draven, you have really improved your indoor scores since you have started. I hope you keep it going. Many folks say that shooting an indoor round is boring. Maybe I think different than the others, but it's my favorite way of shooting, lol!!!! I love shooting a 300 round. Lunger


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## Draven Olary

Just with 10 points for the same bow - difference between outdoor and indoor. SK outdoor 246, indoor 257. I will stay with SK for this winter.
Shooting indoor is never boring, I just never used it for 300 rounds.


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## Mike Lawless

You guys are shooting some great scores!

Six weeks into local league shooting, and six months into my archery "career." It's frustratingly fun. My first score was a 168, (300 FITA target) and now I'm hovering just below 200. In that that process, I've been able to tell when and how my form breaks down. I'm finding that it is mostly mental. At home in the yard I have 17 yards. In that atmosphere, I shoot 210-230. At league nights, on that tightly spaced shooting line with a bunch of other people, things don't go as well. I need to learn to relax. I reckon it's just comes down to putting in the time. Lately at home, I'm trying to shoot under the same conditions. Keep the bow tucked in within the confines of a "lane," shoot three at a time, sit for a couple minutes...repeat. Hopefully that helps.


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## lunger 66

When you start figuring out how, and what part of the form breakdown is causing a poor shot, you're about to get a real jump in accuracy. Good job, Mike. Lunger


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## Mike Lawless

Thanks Lunger. As it is said, it definitely IS a process. Try to take short-cuts, and the result is....less than spectacular.

I'm learning a lot right here from guys like yourself. Much just by reading. It's been a great help!


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## Draven Olary

Tonight's result of 300 round with my 1976 Super Kodiak, #[email protected]" with Fleetwood 350 (527gr arrow).
Still too many 3s, but ...


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## lunger 66

That club that I shot outdoor league with, is having an indoor league starting tomorrow night. They are shooting a vegas 300 round each Monday till Christmas, then nfaa blueface 300 round Mondays after Christmas. They have teams, and each shooter is on a 4 man team. Don't know how that works...anyway the lady running the shoots said I can shoot as a substitute for the teams that need an extra. Pretty nice of her, because I have to go through more spine surgery right away, and can't shoot on a team regular through winter. I wanted to shoot winter league really bad, but everything the doc tried for me failed, so I go under the knife again after thanksgiving. 2 other shooters are shooting trad this time, and the rest are compound. She says the trad shooters get a handicap, somehow. I don't know how it all works, just looking forward to being able to do a couple of them after all. Lunger


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## Draven Olary

Interesting. I hope you will get well after the surgery.


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## mrjeffro

Praying for a speedy recovery Lunger


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## lunger 66

It'll work out guys, just may take a little time. I hate it, but have no choice. 
Draven, it looks like the center of your group is about 2 inches right. What do you think did that? Can you fix it? Lunger


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## Draven Olary

It was body position toward the target issue. I had several 3 arrows on 4 one below others (one time 4) until I kicked myself back aligned. Since I don't really use gap aiming per se, it took me a while. Rushing to start shooting is the culprit, doesn't matter the reasons.
PS That's why I like this app, I can compare with previous session.


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## lunger 66

It's good that you actually know what did it. Usually that means it's fixable, lol!!!!


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## Draven Olary

In 99.9999% I know why it happened, even if it takes some time for subtle things to become obvious.


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## Draven Olary

Things I discovered while shooting practice rounds before actually doing the 300 round. In my aiming system the bow hand is very important - it places the arrow tip in a specific area/spot based on my "feeling". I am not deliberately moving the tip to that point, but I can see it in the peripheral vision at full draw - I don't look at it, is another story. I tried to deliberately replicate the arrow tip position based on "where I thought it was in my peripheral vision" and the outcome was an arrow in 2 ring, kind of consistently. To get it in the 5 I had to place it higher. In the end I decided to not override the brain, and keep the intuitive gap/split vision as my aiming system. My conclusion is that the more I shoot "instinctive" (I really don't like this word) and strive for repeated accuracy, the more it becomes clear how actually the intuitive aiming system works - the brain takes in consideration everything, there are just different levels of attention for each particular thing involved during the shot that I do not need to control.


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## centershot

367/450 at leagues last night. Shot pretty well but had a couple weak shots that cost me.


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## FLlongshot

First night of league last night. 260 on the blue face.


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## Draven Olary

Tonight's result of 300 round with my 1976 Super Kodiak, #[email protected]" with Fleetwood 350 (527gr arrow).
3s are there but at least I was centred. Some sloppy 3s, oh well. In 2 days I will receive the stab - hardly wait to see how it will be with 300gr more.


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## Draven Olary

Shooting indoor with just compounds that are punching X after X (one of my friends will participate in Lancaster challenge in 2018) is quite different than being alone in the woods punching 3D targets.


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## Draven Olary

Stephen Morley said:


> It's interesting, put a small dot at 20y and I can pound it all day, stick that Indoor blue face and things seem to get harder but a factor of 5.


A lot of truth in these words. Keeping the proportion, I feel the same.


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## Draven Olary

I just received the stab. I will give it a try Sunday, maybe I'll do a round with it. The bow feels great in hand, not unbalanced at all.


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## Mike Lawless

Draven Olary said:


> Shooting indoor with just compounds that are punching X after X (one of my friends will participate in Lancaster challenge in 2018) is quite different than being alone in the woods punching 3D targets.


Isn't that the truth. I am the ONLY one shooting a recurve at league nights. All others are on compounds with all the whiz-bang accessories. 

Sometimes I feel......just a little......lonely.


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## tandemcpl

You guys are posting some great scores. Due to medical issues I haven’t shot since the middle of August. My doctor is releasing me to shoot at the end of this month. It is going to take a little while to get back into the swing of things, but hopefully I can start posting some scores soon. However, you guys have set the bar pretty high.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## Draven Olary

I like the hunting stab on the SK. Even if I cant slightly the bow it is not an issue. But I had to change a bit the timing for each shot, and it was for good even if the score is not reflecting it. I shoot a session of 300 again with my 1976 Super Kodiak, #[email protected]" with Fleetwood 350 (527gr arrow). Less 3s than last time, but more 4s. I shot 3 more ends after the 12 were done and the score was 24/24/23 - better than what I shot right before. Oh well, next time maybe will be 260. Baby steps.
PS I think that if I want to get above 270 I have to change entirely the way I aim or to shoot every day more than an end, not two times per week an end each time.


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## Draven Olary

PS not end, round.


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## yegon

did you check your tune after adding the stab? for me every weight change makes quite a difference to unfletched arrow flight


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## Draven Olary

I didn't but if I compare the previous diagram with this one, it shows some changes in bow hand elevation due to the stab and not much else. The stab made the arrows spreading more up-down than left-right. The errant arrows are on me. Now I have to dial the new thing in since I am still stubborn to change the way I aim. If I would really think to compete in 300 round, I might change it though.


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## reddogge

Sunday at the club where we shot an indoor round out of 13 archers 5 were shooting recurves and one longbow. Not a bad ratio.


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## Draven Olary

Nice ratio. Where I shoot there is just me trad and between 5 to 10 compounds


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## lunger 66

Good shooting draven. Your groups are still improving. I put a stabilizer about that size on a 50lb bear grizzly, and it helped a bunch. Lunger


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## Draven Olary

Thanks Lunger, yes I like it too. I will use it for sure and if I will have time to go to the 3D indoor competition in Dec I will take it out.


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## cubefx

Working on the form with my 11 years old son. He shot his first Vegas round today. 10 ends 3 arrows each. Slightly easier on him than 60 arrows blue face. Few flyers and he finished with 218. Definitely plenty of room to grow. 










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## Draven Olary

Looks good! Proud father too


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## lunger 66

Awesome! !!! Fine looking bow he has too! Lunger


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## Corene1

Good job! I know adults that would be happy with that score at 18 meters.


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## cubefx

I might try to shoot it tomorrow. Never shot that face before.


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## lunger 66

I got word that I could shoot league yesterday as a sub shooter on a team at 7pm. I was desperate to practice, but it rained hard all day yesterday. Shot a little rough in the beginning, then pretty good in the last half. Towards the end of the shoot, I shot a 9, then x, then jerked my string hard for some reason and sent my third arrow into the previous x target in the 6 ring. The judge told me he was sorry, but the x target is now a 6, and the 3rd target is a zero. I said I should have got a single spot target, and it was no biggie. Everyone around me was bummed more than I was, lol! So the next end, I shot three 10s and took a pretty hard ribbing. Anyway, when it was over I ended up with 374 on a 450 vegas. Wishing I could shoot the rest of the winter league, but this was my only one because I face spine surgery in a week. There were only two trad shooters including me, but I still had a great time. Lunger


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## cubefx

Lunger, how do you score 450 vegas? 40cm multicolored face?


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## lunger 66

I'm used to shooting the blueface target 54321. The muli color vegas was 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 0 for the 3 spot target. 3 shots per end, and 15 ends, so 450 possible points. One compound shooter scored 446 last night!


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## lunger 66

Cubefx, the vegas was the same size as the blueface, but each color ring was split. The yellow center could be a 10, or a 9. The red ring is an 8, then 7. It was a lot tougher for me than the blueface, but I still had fun.


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## centershot

lunger 66 said:


> I'm used to shooting the blueface target 54321. The muli color vegas was 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 0 for the 3 spot target. 3 shots per end, and 15 ends, so 450 possible points. One compound shooter scored 446 last night!


There are some amazing compound shooters. It is not uncommon for someone to shoot a 450 in our leagues. I actually saw Rio Wilde shoot a 48X 450 at a local tournament a couple years ago. I averaged in the low 440's with my Bowhunter Unlimited bow in last years league.


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## yegon

I wonder how you shoot 48x with 45 arrows centershot 

btw over here a compound ten is the size of your X on the colourful face


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## cubefx

Shot Vegas round (30 arrows/18m). Some of the shots where rushed and did not felt good. 249 was the final score. I think 260+ is doable.


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## lunger 66

Cubefx, funny you brought that up about rushing. Last night I noticed I'd hit the first shot in the yellow nearly every time. The second target was usually a hit or barely missed yellow, and the 3rd target was almost a guaranteed red ring shot. I could see target 1 had the tightest group, then target 2, and number 3 wasn't that good. After I finally saw this, my scores jumped because I took more time shooting the 2nd and 3rd arrow! Even managed 3 10s on one end. Wish I could keep shooting through the winter! Lunger


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## FLlongshot

I shot another 260 at league tonight. Re-tuned my arrows which are flying pretty well now. I just couldn't find the 5 enough, a lot of close 4's.


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## lunger 66

Fl, you may be in the white more now since you tuned the arrows. A 270 is a whisper away from your 260, good luck to you! Lunger


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## centershot

381/450 Vegas at leagues last night. Pretty decent for me only shooting 1 day per week and that being leagues. I should go practice a little but just have not got the drive this year.


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## lunger 66

That's good shooting Trent. Keep it up! Mark


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## cubefx

Stuck at low/mid 270s. Another 275 this morning. Shot one 3 on the last round. String hook did not felt right, but decided to proceed with the shot. Should have let down.









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## centershot

Good shooting, it's a rare round when I don't put at least one in the 3 ring......


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## FLlongshot

lunger 66 said:


> Fl, you may be in the white more now since you tuned the arrows. A 270 is a whisper away from your 260, good luck to you! Lunger


270 isn't uncharted territory. I built these shafts using conventional wisdom but they simply aren't behaving the way they "should" lol! I have to fight for every X which is tough. They just don't give me the trajectory I'm looking for so I'm going back to my Fatboys for now. We'll see what next week's league night says about that !


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## lunger 66

That's funny!!!!!! Go after them!


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## Stephen Morley

Made up some new arrows yesterday, tried with 150g points out of the MK1440 38# limbs but settled on 120g for 304g total, 20g heavy than the old set and with pin nocks. Pretty happy with these old arrows I could see a little back end wobble with these med limbs, the 42# K7's shoot great but I don't shoot so much in the winter and my scores drop with 42#


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## davidflorida

Good shooting lee , look at the score maurice shot.







🤣I knew right away it was your score card . I'm up in Ohio chasing deer see ya in a couple weeks . Happy thanksgiving guys.


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## Draven Olary

I tried for 1st time a Vegas round last night with the same SK and same arrows. Without a marked x and without a very defined aiming system is becoming exhausting. 237/300
I will go back to NFAA rounds. Pick a point training is better with it than Vegas.


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## FLlongshot

Thanks David. Good luck with the big Ohio bucks, Happy Thanksgiving!


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## yegon

WA indoor league today 486/600 also scored it NFAA blueface style - it came out to 259 8x

shot a 1, a 2 and heaps of 3s - nervous, stressed, target panic - all that jazz  will have to work on my head

somehow had the best score though


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## Corene1

I went to the shop today and tried to do some tuning on my indoor bow setting it up for the CBH state indoor in January. It is shot using the various NFAA styles but shot and scored on a FITA 40 cm. face. Index finger must touch the nock. Started out with the indoor bow but just couldn't get a handle on the different gap, and shot a lot of low arrows. I shot a 243 for 30 arrows. Then got the standard field bow out that I shoot all the time and got a pleasant 258 for 30 arrows. 
So this begs the question If a person shoots mostly outdoor field then comes indoors and wants to be competitive should they stop shooting outdoors as the gaps are different and just concentrate on indoor only shooting. It seems going back and forth for me is a difficult thing to do.


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## FLlongshot

Corene1, I think that's a highly individual thing. Some people transition easily, some not so much. Even shooting at very high levels.


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## Draven Olary

Tonight it was the first time I shot the bow with progressive eyeglasses I received 2 days ago. At full draw I see (for the moment) the x blurry. I am happy with the result - I was expecting worst in this training session. Not too many X this time, I need some time to get used with the eyeglasses on while shooting the bow, but I like the hunting stab on it. The shooting was done with the same SK [email protected] and same Fleetwood 350 arrows. The 3s are still there, but on the bright side I don't have too much to catch up with this change. Once the round was ended I shot other 6 ends and the X started to pop-up.


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## cubefx

I am slightly confused. Can someone clarify. How many arrows you supposed to shoot at 40cm multicolored fita target face, and how many arrows per end? Lets say Vegas tournament or Lancaster Classic? I thought 30 arrows, 3 per end 300 points max, but everyone talking about 600 and 450 rounds.
Thanks.

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## Draven Olary

30arrows / 300 is one round but sometimes you can shoot 2 rounds 60arrows / 600 or 45arrows / 450. 3 arrows / end


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## yegon

yeah here in europe we usually shoot 60 arrows - standard round is 30 arrows, so we shoot 2 rounds with a short break between them. The same goes for outdoor, there the std round is 36 arrows and we always shoot 2 rounds for a total of 72 arrows (thats also what the oly shooters shoot as a qualifying part of the tourneys)

30/36 would be just too quick for a tournament - not enough fun


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## Demmer3

cubefx said:


> I am slightly confused. Can someone clarify. How many arrows you supposed to shoot at 40cm multicolored fita target face, and how many arrows per end? Lets say Vegas tournament or Lancaster Classic? I thought 30 arrows, 3 per end 300 points max, but everyone talking about 600 and 450 rounds.
> Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Most big tournaments shoot 60 arrows a day. Vegas is the only big shoot I go to that shoots 30 a day. Often leauges are 45 arrows so you get the 450 round. Can squeeze 45 arrows in 60-90 minutes so that's why it's kinda common for leauge nights. 

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## cubefx

Demmer3 said:


> Most big tournaments shoot 60 arrows a day. Vegas is the only big shoot I go to that shoots 30 a day. Often leauges are 45 arrows so you get the 450 round. Can squeeze 45 arrows in 60-90 minutes so that's why it's kinda common for leauge nights.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


John, thanks for your help. What format you are normally shoot at Lancaster Classic?


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## Demmer3

cubefx said:


> John, thanks for your help. What format you are normally shoot at Lancaster Classic?


20 ends of 3 arrows for a total of 60 arrows. This shoot they count the x ring as an 11. 

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## centershot

Demmer3 said:


> 20 ends of 3 arrows for a total of 60 arrows. This shoot they count the x ring as an 11.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Is that all in one day or over two days?


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## cubefx

Tried a shoot Vegas face at the indoor range yesterday. Grouped high snd right cosistently for some reason. 261. 
30 arrows 20 yards.









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## yegon

very nice score and even nicer group


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## FLlongshot

Just got back from league night. It started raining on the 4th end and our indoor league is outdoor so shot most of the round with matted feathers and still managed 14x, 279 so I guess my tune is ok lol!


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## centershot

374/450 Vegas league last night. Shot a 29 and 28 on last 2 ends, finally got warmed up right when it ended. lol I keep thinking shooing more than one time a week might help, but just have not got around to practicing.


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## FLlongshot

Center, 8.3 points per arrow on the Fita 40cm is pretty good shooting, especially with a limited practice regimen.


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## centershot

Thanks, I need somebody to come along and whop me to give me some motivation. Currently there's just me and one other guy shooting targets. There has been a pretty big spike in the sale of Satori's at the local shop, hopefully some guys will get serious about it. But, as it stands I'll probably shoot the next league with my compound.


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## Draven Olary

Good shooting Center. I shoot alone with 5 compound shooters tonight and the motivation for me is to shoot better than them. I know is just a dream but it works. I shot my first 262/300 with my DH Mamba #[email protected] after 30 minutes of acomodation with the bow.
Viper was right. Once I tried the small hunting stab on a bow I see no reason to not use it. Mamba has it too and is not coming off unless I go to a 3D competition.


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## lunger 66

I got a 374 the one and only league night I got to shoot. Had a really strong second half, due to not shooting much in practice for awhile. Everyone shot compound cept one other guy, and the compound shooters started routing for me. Shot a 30 point vegas end, and none of us could believe it. I may have got a couple of them wanting a stickbow! Lol!!! One of the best times i've had, and even got by a few compound shooters. I'll be doing this some more, as soon as I heal from this back surgery. Love shooting indoors! !!!!!!! Lunger


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## Mike Lawless

I can relate centershot. At league nights, I am the one and only along with 15 to 20 compound shooters. Even though the compound shooters offer up encouraging words, it can still get a bit demoralizing when these guys are complaining about shooting a 290, and at this point in my "career" I'm just barely cracking 200. I shoot a 25-27 end pretty frequently, and get compliments, but then I get sloppy and "slice a few into the woods" immediately after.


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## yegon

still struggle in competitions - today 253 7x - all in my head and trying too hard


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## tandemcpl

I just started back shooting this week after a three month layoff due to neck injury and spine fusion surgery.

I have a lot of work to do to get ready for my first competition next week. While I was recovering I bought some lighter limbs for indoors, and it's a good thing I did because I lost a lot of triceps strength in my bow arm. I'm shooting some good groups, but I'm also spraying arrows all over the target. I have a long way to go to catch up with the rest of you guys.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## lunger 66

Toby, please keep us posted! This is just what i'm going through. L5s1 along with l4, in my lowere back. Severely crippled right now, and the doc said he doesn't know enough about archery, to let me try again. I'd like to know when I could shoot again. Lunger


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## tandemcpl

lunger 66 said:


> Toby, please keep us posted! This is just what i'm going through. L5s1 along with l4, in my lowere back. Severely crippled right now, and the doc said he doesn't know enough about archery, to let me try again. I'd like to know when I could shoot again. Lunger


Lunger,

I had C6 and C7 in my neck fused. It has had no impact on my archery except for the lost strength in my bow arm due to nerve damage. However, I did have to wait six weeks after surgery before I could shoot my bow. The long layoff has affected my accuracy but in time that will also return.

I'm no Dr. but I would think that after you have had enough time for the back to heal, you should be back to posting high numbers again.

I'll be praying for you.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## lunger 66

Thanks dor the kind words Toby. It's not easy just laying around. I not even far enough to know if he fixed my problems yet. So much pain throughout the torso, that I can't tell yet. Soon, I think. I'll b reading, and following everyone else for now though. Mark


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## Stephen Morley

Will shoot our WA18 Nationals today, think I've figured out what's given me so many issues shooting indoors and made some changes to my indoor game and interested to see how it works under pressure, goal is to try and match my practice scores.


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## tandemcpl

Good luck, Stephen.

Toby


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## yegon

gl Stephen


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## Draven Olary

Good luck Stephen


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## Stephen Morley

Think I'll quit Barebow WA18 Indoors, thought I had my aiming issues sorted by squinting my left eye but with florescent lightning I still cannot see my arrow on these. Next year I'll stick a sight and Stabs on my bow. 

I managed to win through will power, first half I was 3rd place, that first half score was just an embarrassing disaster.


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## centershot

lol, why do we torture ourselves with this crazy game?


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## Stephen Morley

centershot said:


> lol, why do we torture ourselves with this crazy game?


Torture is tame, I just don't understand the issue with these WA multi colour faces, Field/3D out to 30y is very good groups, I see no reason no to be hitting mid 500's. The IFAA 300 rounds are better around that low/mid 280 mark.


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## yegon

gratz anyway


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## tandemcpl

Stephen Morley said:


> Think I'll quit Barebow WA18 Indoors, thought I had my aiming issues sorted by squinting my left eye but with florescent lightning I still cannot see my arrow on these. Next year I'll stick a sight and Stabs on my bow.
> 
> I managed to win through will power, first half I was 3rd place, that first half score was just an embarrassing disaster.


Stephen,

Does World Archery allow for the use of powder on the arrow tips as a visual aid?

This practice is allowed in NFAA. I have never tried it so I don’t know effective it is.

NFAA BY-LAWS ARTICLE I

Barebow:

7. All arrows shall be identical in length, weight, diameter and fletching, with allowance for wear and tear. Powder on the arrow points shall be permitted as a visual aid.

toby


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## Stephen Morley

I don't know Toby, I would like to try a sight, it would confirm my theory and help build some confidence back up.....or totally destroy me lol


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## UPNORTHMN

I am new to this side of archery and shot my new setup for the first time at 20 yards tonight. I have been shooting at 10 yards in the basement for the last few weeks and now that our clubs indoor range is setup I figured I would try a game and see what happened. I was just hoping to get a 200 on a 60 arrow game and ended up with a 238, I was pretty pleased with that and have higher goals now! My arrows aren't tuned right though, I was using a string walk and high anchor to get point on for height but I had to hold on the right edge of the paper the whole game to hit close to center. I will bring some heavier points and try again Thursday, I think I can hit 250+ a lot sooner than I thought! Also that was the most fun I had shooting an indoor round in a long time, I was shooting a 300 with the compound pretty easy but the X count was getting so stressful that it wasn't as much fun as it used to be.


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## centershot

380/450 last night at Vegas leagues. Feel pretty good about it, shot with decent control most of the night. Stuck a couple in the blue but my lowest end was a 22. Still have not got around to practicing, maybe soon - weather is getting cold so maybe that will get me indoors enough to work out a few issues.


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## FLlongshot

21x, 275 at league last night. Had 5 mental breakdowns resulting in 4-3's and a 2.


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## tandemcpl

tandemcpl said:


> I just started back shooting this week after a three month layoff due to neck injury and spine fusion surgery.
> 
> I have a lot of work to do to get ready for my first competition next week. While I was recovering I bought some lighter limbs for indoors, and it's a good thing I did because I lost a lot of triceps strength in my bow arm. I'm shooting some good groups, but I'm also spraying arrows all over the target. I have a long way to go to catch up with the rest of you guys.
> 
> Be blessed.
> 
> Toby


Today I shot my first 300 since the surgery and I didn't do too horribly bad. I had a hard time settling in and getting a rhythm and had two 16s in the first half, but was able to somewhat recover for the second half. I ended up with a 250 With 9 Xs. Not a bad start, but a long way to go to get to Lunger's level. 

Be blessed.

Toby


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## lunger 66

Toby, that's great news about you shooting again! !!!! I'm metering my pain meds down some again today, and can walk pretty good.
Are you shooting on the 6 week after your surgery? Maybe I could too? My doc says he doesn't know enough about archery to give my a date. I had my wife's bow in my hand, and resisted the urge to draw it, and put it back. Hoping someone will know....Mark


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## lunger 66

You don't have a long way to hit my level, Toby. It didn't take very long to shoot a 280 after getting my first 250. It did take me awhile to get the 282 though for some reason, lol!!! You're already capable of making a great shot if you shot a 250. Try shooting a great shot once, for 60 times instead of shooting a 60 arrow match. This very thing helps me, and maybe you too. Mark


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## Corene1

Made some major changes in the indoor set up today getting ready for the state indoor in January. Went with the bow set at field weight 34 pounds on the fingers and built some 2212 X7's 31 inches long and a with a total weight of 477 grains.It slowed the bow down to 154 FPS but it is very consistent on speed , never more than 1FPS above or below. Went with a bit higher poundage to try and cover up some small errors in my release. Point on is right at the bottom blue line on a FITA face. After a bunch of tuning I managed a 263 for 30 arrow round. My best so far. Going to give the NFAA round a go tomorrow. This is the first time my reference point has been on the paper. The shots seem a little sluggish compered to the field bow but a slow 10 scores more than a fast 8 , or so the saying goes.


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## lunger 66

That's awesome Corene! !! Wishing I could shoot right now, but love hearing good news and updates from everyone else. Keep it up! Mark


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## Stephen Morley

Don't know if I'm expecting too much from these rounds as I'm lucky to get indoors more than once a month, if the weather is around zero I don't mind shooting outside but I'm not really creating tourney conditions. What I did do the other day outside was shoot some walkback and then a 300 round, just to figure if the feel is different, and it is. On the walkback I'm stronger with my Form and Indoors I'm too focused on BT and release, I kept more focus on the front end, specially when I got the arrow in the spot, I was reaching into the spot until the arrow hit, it cleaned up those stray shots and kept everything in the 5/4 zone, most important thing was it felt fairly easy and relaxed. Not a epic score but something to work on for next few weeks.


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## Demmer3

Stephen Morley said:


> Don't know if I'm expecting too much from these rounds as I'm lucky to get indoors more than once a month, if the weather is around zero I don't mind shooting outside but I'm not really creating tourney conditions. What I did do the other day outside was shoot some walkback and then a 300 round, just to figure if the feel is different, and it is. On the walkback I'm stronger with my Form and Indoors I'm too focused on BT and release, I kept more focus on the front end, specially when I got the arrow in the spot, I was reaching into the spot until the arrow hit, it cleaned up those stray shots and kept everything in the 5/4 zone, most important thing was it felt fairly easy and relaxed. Not a epic score but something to work on for next few weeks.


Little bit of both for ya. If I shoot once a month, I have just as good of a chance to shoot a 560+ as I do a 520-

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## Forest1964

I feel like every distance is just shoot-and-pray for me


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## tandemcpl

lunger 66 said:


> Toby, that's great news about you shooting again! !!!! I'm metering my pain meds down some again today, and can walk pretty good.
> Are you shooting on the 6 week after your surgery? Maybe I could too? My doc says he doesn't know enough about archery to give my a date. I had my wife's bow in my hand, and resisted the urge to draw it, and put it back. Hoping someone will know....Mark


Mark,

Yes, I started shooting six weeks after surgery; however, I took it slow. Yesterday's 300 round was about all I could handle. Take it slow and heal up, you have plenty of time to shoot.

Your next doctor's visit take a video of someone drawing a bow to show the doctor what is involved. Maybe then he can make the call. Just a thought.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98KMln-AZNU

Be blessed.

Toby


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## tandemcpl

lunger 66 said:


> You don't have a long way to hit my level, Toby. It didn't take very long to shoot a 280 after getting my first 250. It did take me awhile to get the 282 though for some reason, lol!!! You're already capable of making a great shot if you shot a 250. Try shooting a great shot once, for 60 times instead of shooting a 60 arrow match. This very thing helps me, and maybe you too. Mark


Mark,

When I started yesterday's round I was concerned about posting a high score to prove to myself I could still do it. In the first five ends I had two ends where I ended up with a 16. After that I quit worrying about posting a high score and started concentrating on form. That is when everything started to improve. The bad part is I know better. I have shot my best rounds when I don't worry about the score but concentrate on form and executing my routine.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## Draven Olary

After 2 weeks of training with small target (just 5 and 4 ring) 9 arrows per end, I did a NFAA 300 round tonight, Super Kodiak #[email protected]" and Fleetwood400 (465gr) arrows.
269 is my PB, same as 16x.


----------



## tandemcpl

Draven Olary said:


> After 2 weeks of training with small target (just 5 and 4 ring) 9 arrows per end, I did a NFAA 300 round tonight, Super Kodiak #[email protected]" and Fleetwood400 (465gr) arrows.
> 269 is my PB, same as 16x.


That's a great score with that rig, congratulations.

Toby


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## Draven Olary

Thanks Tandemcpl, nowhere near other guys, but I enjoy the ride at my pace.


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## lunger 66

Thanks for your advice, Toby! 
Congrats on a great looking target Draven! Mark


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## Stephen Morley

John a 560 isn't going to happen for me 520-530 is normal practice, a 30 point jump is like expecting Santa to bring me a Porsche for Christmas lol


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## Draven Olary

Thank you Lunger. I hope you are feeling better.


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## Demmer3

Stephen Morley said:


> John a 560 isn't going to happen for me 520-530 is normal practice, a 30 point jump is like expecting Santa to bring me a Porsche for Christmas lol


My point is that 40 point swings are much more likely when shooting is almost non existent. When shooting a lot, a 40 point drop is on an extremely bad day and don't happen that often at all. They still happen, but rarely. 

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## Corene1

Went to the range yesterday and shot a 419 hunter round with the field bow then went to the practice area to work with the indoor bow. It is hard for me to change the gap at 20 so the first few practice ends were less than stellar. After about 30 shots I started a scored round and managed a 276 but only 7 x's . In time I think I can tighten it up a bit more. Just wish there were some local indoor shoots around here locally but it is hard to concentrate on indoor shooting when it is 72 degrees and sunny at the range.


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## Draven Olary

Lucky Corene, here are -24C and I have hard time just thinking to draw the bow outside


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## Stephen Morley

Demmer3 said:


> Stephen Morley said:
> 
> 
> 
> John a 560 isn't going to happen for me 520-530 is normal practice, a 30 point jump is like expecting Santa to bring me a Porsche for Christmas lol
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that 40 point swings are much more likely when shooting is almost non existent. When shooting a lot, a 40 point drop is on an extremely bad day and don't happen that often at all. They still happen, but rarely.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I get it now, thanks.

I get a full Olympic rig next week, will be interesting to see what happens.


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## centershot

Demmer3 said:


> My point is that 40 point swings are much more likely when shooting is almost non existent. When shooting a lot, a 40 point drop is on an extremely bad day and don't happen that often at all. They still happen, but rarely.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


10-15 points on a 450 round is the difference between an average plus round to ugh that was awful for me also.......that boils down to about 1/3 point per arrow or an average group of 45 arrows is about 1/4" bigger. lol


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## lunger 66

That 450 round isn't very forgiving compared to the blueface 300 round. My hat's off to you centershot! Lunger


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## Stephen Morley

This why Indoors drives me crazy, It's -3C, haven't shot for 5 days and my walkback 5 -35 yards which in practice is fairly regularly grouping for me, on a Field range I'm averaging 18 on my shots out to 32y fan then things start to open up as the distance increases. I don't expect this grouping Indoor tourney, with pressure and distractions on a crowded shooting line I realize it will open up a little but it should be way better with my current skill level.


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## lunger 66

I'm betting that you practice outdoor shooting far more than the indoor stuff? Mark


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> I'm betting that you practice outdoor shooting far more than the indoor stuff? Mark


That is an interesting thought . I shoot outdoor field much more than indoor 18 meters. Outdoors you must be consistent at many different distances from 10 to 80 yards and a couple of 3's here or there won't kill a competitive score. Indoors your form and techniques need to be spot on to score in the competitive range. Maybe shooting outdoors keeps the mind more active since almost every shot is different and you must think about every variation, while shooting indoors it is all the same shot over and over and our brains tend to go dormant here and there and that causes a bad shot. Indoors is definitely a tough mental game .


----------



## FLlongshot

Last night league 273. Not bad but lacking a lot of precision. Only 7x's is half of typical for me. I added a 12oz x-spot to my riser just a couple of days ago so maybe just getting used to the additional weight. I had fewer flyers and got better as the round progressed. Games scored 86, 93, 94.


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## centershot

Nice shooting FL - any game in the 90's is a good one.

382/450 Vegas at league last night. Had a couple poor shots but they were always the first of the three and then I bared down and made it up with the next 2 arrows. Low end score was 23 - high was a 30 with a good number of rounds that were all yellow. Fun stuff.


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## davidflorida

Put a new side plate on and it seems a little thicker , was constantly left of center , ended up 230 on my rig shooting off the shelf










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## centershot

You can raise your brace height a bit and get the group moved back over. (assuming you are right handed)


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## davidflorida

Thanks , will give it a little adjustment.


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## welkin25

Still shooting fita indoor targets. A month and half later since last post (when I was averaging 8), today just shot a 8.5 average in league. Incremental improvement is getting harder, also feeling the full impact of the mental game. Still hopeful to get better though. There are moments where everything feels right and the arrows goes straight in the X. I just need to make those happen more often.


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## mdrnsamurai

Not NFAA but my first 450+ (453) Plus Three of the best 300 rounds. 224, 229, and 226!


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## Corene1

Shot my indoor rounds outdoors today with a constant cross wind. Managed a 269 on the blueface but only a 248 on the 30 arrow FITA round afterwards.


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## grantmac

263 10x will bump this back up.


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## barebowjay

This thread has been going a long time! Nice shooting everyone. I managed a 228 on the blue target tonight. I need to work on controlling the fliers that really kill my round.


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## FLlongshot

League picked back up this past Tuesday. I shot the NFAA round (12 ends of 5) but used the 40cm Fita face and calculated score in both formats. NFAA score 273, 11x. WA score 515, 4x.


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## hammer08

Last two targets from leagues. Shooting well just trying to stick with my process and let the scores come. Been shooting some decent fita practice rounds as well. Have a few league shoots, a tournament next weekend, and then it's off to Lancaster. 

Keep up the good shooting everyone. Always follow your process!


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## lunger 66

Hammer, that's really good shooting! What kind of rig are you shooting? How long have you been working at this? I'd really like to get there after doc lets me shoot again. 282, and 20x is as far as I got before the back surgery. Mark


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## grantmac

That's an extremely nice target Hammer.


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## hammer08

Thank you. Those were two pretty good nights for me. 

I'm shooting a WA Barebow setup. I've been shooting Barebow for a few years now. 282 is great shooting. Get yourself healthy and get back at it.


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## barebowjay

Holy smokes those are 2 tight looking targets bro! Is this what a lot of barebow shooters shoot? What's the secret? Or are you shooting compound? What kind of setup do you shoot? How long you been shooting and how good were you when you started. I shot at 237 tonight this stuff is hard!


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## lunger 66

Thanks Hammer, I will be shooting again as soon as I can. I see the doc again today, so I'll ask again if I can start shooting my bow, and some other stuff. I wish you the best at Lancaster, and hope you keep a level head. Inspires me seeing accuracy like this, thanks. Mark


----------



## grantmac

barebowjay said:


> Holy smokes those are 2 tight looking targets bro! Is this what a lot of barebow shooters shoot? What's the secret? Or are you shooting compound? What kind of setup do you shoot? How long you been shooting and how good were you when you started. I shot at 237 tonight this stuff is hard!


Those results are not typical so don't get down on yourself. The average semi-serious shooter is in the 250-260 range. There are maybe 10 in the country who can shoot in that +285 in practice.

237 is a really good score for your first year. If you tell us more about your setup we might be able to cut a little off your learning curve. Usually things like equipment can help get you into the 250s, after that it's a mental game.


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## centershot

grantmac said:


> Those results are not typical so don't get down on yourself. The average semi-serious shooter is in the 250-260 range. There are maybe 10 in the country who can shoot in that +285 in practice.
> 
> 237 is a really good score for your first year. If you tell us more about your setup we might be able to cut a little off your learning curve. Usually things like equipment can help get you into the 250s, after that it's a mental game.


+1, 280 is still a milestone that many (most?) never achieve. This is especially true shooting a true NFAA Trad legal setup.


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## lunger 66

Just got the doc's permission to start shooting some again, and some other stuff around the farm with some common sense, lol!!!!!!! I was thrilled, and helooked nervous. 
I may end up shooting the 30 shot Vegas round for a bit. Guess it depends on how much strength I lost. Still good news, Mark


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## grantmac

lunger 66 said:


> Just got the doc's permission to start shooting some again, and some other stuff around the farm with some common sense, lol!!!!!!! I was thrilled, and helooked nervous.
> I may end up shooting the 30 shot Vegas round for a bit. Guess it depends on how much strength I lost. Still good news, Mark


Looking forward to shooting together someday when we're both at our best!


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## barebowjay

So were those targets shot in competition or not and what were the final scores?? 260 seems more realistic to me 280 and above is hard to comprehend for me right now. Who are the 10 in the country that can shoot 285 because i'd like to ask them questions about their shooting. What is WA Barebow? I shoot an axiom riser and limbs 32#'s with 500 easton lightspeeds uncut and 175 grain points. I stringwalk and put my point just below the white or yellow.


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## hammer08

Good to hear Lunger, hope it doesn't take you too long to get back in a groove. 

220, 240, 260 are all good scores for the bows we shoot. Don't overthink it and get caught up chasing a score. Work on your shot, find a process or routine and stick with it at all times. It will carry you a long way.

WA Is short for World Archery and WA Barebow is just a set of rules used to determine what kind of equipment you can use. It's fairly popular across the world. Not the only set of Barebow rules but I like them. No I don't shoot a compound, probably couldn't shoot mine that well anyway lol. The targets were shot in a league shoot with a double line and two scorers so yes it's a competition but very low pressure as far as competitions go. They were both in the low 290's or around 560 fita.

Your setup sounds ok to me but there's probably a few changes you could make to possibly add a couple points. Grantmac would be of better help, he really knows his stuff when it comes to bow and arrow setups.


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## Corene1

centershot said:


> +1, 280 is still a milestone that many (most?) never achieve. This is especially true shooting a true NFAA Trad legal setup.


True NFAA trad legal set up would be 1 finger touching the nock, no string walking and a 12 max stabilizer, Correct?


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## Rjennings10

Low pressure.... only standing next to Demmer, sure, sounds like low pressure. Well done sir


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## lunger 66

I'd really like that, Grant. You'd probably see something I need to work on, and i'd be glad to hear it. I'm hoping I haven't backslid too far, lol!!! Mark


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## barebowjay

Sounds like a competition to me. Is NFAA trad more difficult to score high than WA barebow? The top Barebow guys shoot 290?


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## grantmac

lunger 66 said:


> I'd really like that, Grant. You'd probably see something I need to work on, and i'd be glad to hear it. I'm hoping I haven't backslid too far, lol!!! Mark


I'm still trying to fix years of backsliding, you'll be fine.


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## lunger 66

I'd like to see you sometime in the future. Your experience and posts/replies have shortened my learning curve. Actually, most folks on this forum have really helped me out. Wish I could shoot with everyone. Mark


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## hammer08

Rjennings10 said:


> Low pressure.... only standing next to Demmer, sure, sounds like low pressure. Well done sir


Haha shooting next to the best does make you pucker up a bit but you have to stay focused or at least try to. I've shot a couple bigger tournaments but not enough. I'm hoping more exposure and failure will help me in the long run. You're doing the right thing by going to Lancaster this year. No better time or place to learn. Just make sure you take care of my bow lol hopefully I'll see you sometime this week. 

Jay - The 12" stabilizer in NFAA Trad really helps a lot. A great archer will have the potential to score higher indoors with NFAA Trad rules than they will shooting a WA Barebow setup, in my opinion. And the guys truly at the top shoot a bit better than 290.


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## barebowjay

Thank you everyone for putting up with my questions. I enjoy the feedback and to get people talking about shooting. It feels like everyone keeps mostly quiet around here. I shot a 234 today. I need to find a way to turn 2s into 5s. Anyone else shoot today?


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## FLlongshot

I shot this morning. Did 60 arrows on the WA face for a 521. Converted score to the NFAA blue face would be 275, 16x.


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## davidflorida

last round I shot , slow but getting there



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## FLlongshot

That's good shooting David!


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## lunger 66

Well done, David! !!! 250 and up make good looking targets. 
Weather is way to windy here. I guess I could blank bale indoors some today. Lunger


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## keb

294 counting x as point, of the shelf 64” bow
17x


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## barebowjay

Good shooting people. 275 and 250 are really good! I shot a 239 today. I'm not very good at this! Why do you count the x ring as as 6? Is that a thing anywhere? I have never heard of it. 277 is still good shooting. Grant centershot hammer.. did you all shoot recently?


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## keb

I’m new at this shot I’m going to scores x as 6, no clue why


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## grantmac

X is just a 5, still a great score.


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## keb

Why do some shots score it as 6?


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## Demmer3

keb said:


> Why do some shots score it as 6?


Different shoots have different rules. 

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## Demmer3

barebowjay said:


> Sounds like a competition to me. Is NFAA trad more difficult to score high than WA barebow? The top Barebow guys shoot 290?


If people have a low enough anchor then it is easier to score points as Hammer said with nfaa trad rules than say a world Archery barebow set. Not too many get into the 290s in competitions. It's usually just a very select few here in the States, but I'm not a hundred percent sure in the rest of the world. Even with an ultra slow setup to get point on at 20 nfaa, I score higher with the nfaa bow with the 12 inch. Usually my us archery bow is around 150 to 180 ft per second (180ish this year) and my nfaa tradtalk is 130 FPS. Say I'm practicing with my us archery bow and I'm averaging around 285 to 290, that stabbed setup will pump me up to 290-295. When I was 270-280, that stab would get me 275-290. 

I wouldn't say it's easier to shoot with either set up you just have a different curve. 
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## Demmer3

By the way, I love reading and seeing everyone's progress and journey here. 

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## barebowjay

Whoa you shoot 295? I thought hammer was good. Ok so the stabilizer definitely helps then. Is hammer shooting 290's a stabilizer or without? Would you say hammer and you are near the top for barebow in the US? What is hammers name? Maybe i should put a stabilizer on my bow and see if it helps. You guys are shooting incredible and thank you for posting here.


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## hammer08

Lol Jay, you move at such a frantic pace. My name is Grayson Partlowe and no, I'm not near the top. There are many archers who are more dedicated, talented, and accomplished shooters in the country than myself. John is the top as far as target barebow goes in the US. 

No, I don't shoot with a stab and I haven't since winter of 2015. Doubt I'll use one again as it's just not a style i'm really interested in. I'm very happy with my WA setup and if I execute correctly will have no issues scoring well. Absolutely nothing wrong with using one if that's what you wanna do though.


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## jogilvie69

I shot my first full FITA round in a while yesterday. I scored 531. Would've been a 278-20x on the NFAA target. I'm hoping to shoot like John and Grayson one of these days. I gotta clean up those wild shots. Lol


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## Demmer3

barebowjay said:


> Whoa you shoot 295? I thought hammer was good. Ok so the stabilizer definitely helps then. Is hammer shooting 290's a stabilizer or without? Would you say hammer and you are near the top for barebow in the US? What is hammers name? Maybe i should put a stabilizer on my bow and see if it helps. You guys are shooting incredible and thank you for posting here.


Shoot what you want. The rule of thumb is, the more equipment you add to the bow, the higher the scores you can get. It's the point you are comfortable with saying, ok, this is where I want to be. I, like Grayson, pick a USA archery barebow setup, because that's what I shoot 97% of the time. Only the Vegas shoot and nfaa indoors will I put stabs on. Those two shoots and about 5 days of practice. Lol

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## Corene1

Since there is talk here of the advantages of adding a 12 inch stabilizer I would like to ask. What are the advantages of using a heavy weighted barebow specific riser such as a CD archery WF25 versus a lighter ILF olympic type riser, say a Sf archery forged plus. as far as points go? I know you can add weights to a standard riser but the WF25 is a very nice riser as far as balance and feel when shot without any stabilizer.


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## reddogge

keb said:


> Why do some shots score it as 6?


The highest score for the 300 round NFAA target is 300 everywhere I've seen and the Xs count only as tie breakers. Where I shoot the compound guys all shoot 300s so they only want to know who had the most Xs.


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## centershot

reddogge said:


> The highest score for the 300 round NFAA target is 300 everywhere I've seen and the Xs count only as tie breakers. Where I shoot the compound guys all shoot 300s so they only want to know who had the most Xs.


This^ some will score the X as a 6 because it is easier for a computer to sort the scores............computers were not around when the game was invented.......


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## lunger 66

Shot a 260 vegas just a half hr ago! Spent 2 days coming to full draw, holding on a spot, then letting down. I'm absolutely sure that helped me before actually shooting the vegas round "30 arrows". The really good news is I think i've got plenty of strength to go for a 60 shot, 300 round next time. Lunger


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## hammer08

Jeff and lunger, great shooting!

Corene - Most any riser with enough weigh on it will shoot pretty well. Barebow specific risers typically offer the advantage of being heavier from the start. You can add weight until it's where you like it. The WF risers are great risers and only require a small amount of weight. I really liked the WFX25 Lite that I shot. I also like my Spigarelli Barebow riser but my favorite right now are my 27" Gillo G1 risers. Would really like to try the new WFX27 though. 

My last two league nights went pretty well. Through 5 nights I'm averaging 292 29X. Never in a million years did I ever think I'd be able to shoot that. When I started shouting barebow in 2015 I never really thought I'd shoot 270. Thought if I ever shot a 280 I'd never want anything more. But archery is a funny and sometimes annoying thing.. you always feel like you could've shot better or that you left a few points out there. 

View attachment 6368167

View attachment 6368169










A couple nights ago a thread on another forum got me itching to try some skinny arrows for an indoor round. So I shot some Victory 3DHV arrows next to my Carbon Express Tanks. I have to admit they shot better than I anticipated but I'm too stubborn to switch away from the fatter shafts. I find it easier to aim with the fat shafts. The heavy point weight and long length seem to be forgiving for me and I hold on to a lot of 9's/5's that I don't think I'd get with skinny shafts. The heavier shaft and slower arrow don't seem to bother me too much. 

View attachment 6368171


After league shooting tonight my brother who shoots compound picked up my recurve and gave it a go. His form needs a little work but he shot it surprisingly well. He's planning on getting his own setup. One of my other friends got a Barebow setup to shoot in the league with me and his improvement has been remarkable. He began practicing the week before league started. By the first night of league he was shooting 220 and tonight, only a few weeks later, he shot a 257. Really excited to see his progress going forward. It's awesome seeing new people enjoy and excel at the sport.









Long post I know but I work nights and have a lot of free time. Plus indoor season is my favorite lol 
Hope everyone is shooting well!


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## hammer08

Couple photos didn't come through right for whatever reason.


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## jogilvie69

Cool story about your friend and brother Grayson! I saw some rapid improvement in my scores when I started shooting also. Once I hit that 270 mark it really slowed down but I'm still trying. Lol. You, John, Lunger and some of the others on here are proof of what can be accomplished in a relatively short amount of time when you're really dedicated to improving. Barebow will definitely hook a person. I've shot more paper in the last two years with my recurve than I did in the 25 years before that with my compound. Lol


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## lunger 66

I'm shooting a Hoyt horizon with an 11 inch stab, spig wire rest, beiter plunger, maxima rz 500 spine arrow full length, 175gr screw in tips, about 34lbs on the fingers. With this outfit, i'm able to hold 6oclock on the white, or yellow with finger touching the nock. I'd like to try barebow, but don't know what to buy. Not a soul around me shoots a stickbow. I have a border tempest, but think it may not be the right outfit for dedicated bb. Lunger


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## cubefx

20 yards 40cm target face. 264 first 30 arrows, 263 second 30 arrows. Total score :527
kept em in red. 









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## cubefx

cubefx said:


> 20 yards 40cm target face. 264 first 30 arrows, 263 second 30 arrows. Total score :527
> kept em in red.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk












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## cubefx

i hate posting from the phone.

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## jogilvie69

Good shooting Cube. I usually get at least 1 arrow a round in the blue. It's so easy to do. Haha


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## Brian N

Lunger 66 - I am shooting the same set up (Hoyt Horizon, beiter plunger, wire rest, 11 inch stab), except just a bit over 30# on the fingers and Easton Platinum Plus arrows. Recently, my personal best was 256 (been in 240's for a while before). Like to try a dedicated bare bow riser, but house and bills must be paid.


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## lunger 66

Brian, now that you're over 250, is your bow tuned about right? Do you get good bs flight in with your groups? At 256, I bet you're on your way now. Mark


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## grantmac

Had a frustrating 254 at league. Kept putting the first arrow up on the top of the 3/4 line. It got into my head and the wheels fell off


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## cubefx

Signed up for Florida Vegas Shoot in couple of weeks. Will see how my backyard shooting will translate into competition.

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## Brian N

lunger 66 said:


> Do you get good bs flight in with your groups? At 256, I bet you're on your way now. Mark


Bare Shaft is within 2 inches or so of the fletched arrow group, mostly right. If I'm having a good end, I'll get a group in the white (NFAA target) and the bare shaft real close.


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## hammer08

Jeff - improvement to 260/270 can come pretty quick with dedication and a good approach. After that it takes someone being really on top of their game. Equipment, form, and mental process all have to be clicking together. Your scores look really good btw. 

Lunger - that setup sounds solid enough and your scores are very good. Barebow is my favorite and I'd encourage you to try it but I wouldn't expect to pick up any points immediately by dropping the stab and going to a Barebow specific riser. 

Brian - solid scores, keep at it!

Grant - doesn't take much to get you thinking in a competition, scary how quickly it can go down hill. I tend to shoot a high arrow at the beginning but find it's mainly due to head position. 254 is a solid score nonetheless.

Cube - really nice scores. Competition is a different beast altogether. Just try to stick with your routine and process. Easier said than done I know. Won't be surprised if I shoot a 400 at Lancaster lol

I haven't shot much the past couple days. My last practice score was a 282 6x Fita half. Shooting league tomorrow and then a sanctioned tournament on Saturday. Just looking to shoot strong shots.


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## travislsullivan

New PB, 263 12x, at league tonight; topped my 258 from last week and doubled my X count. Left 10 points out there on 3’s and that pesky 2. Had 5 arrows that were 100% avoidable 2/3’s. JC Optimus 19” with SF premium longs off the shelf no stab.


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## dakotaduner

Nice shooting everyone. I’ve been averaging 258. Have not broke 270 yet
Guys how cool is it that some of the best shooters in the country and world are here and encouraging us and giving advice 
Thank you all.


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## lunger 66

Brian, that's good enough. Just worry about your form, and making a great shot. Learn from the shot before, and don't worry about the next one. Only the one you're working on. Have some confidence. If you're over 250, you are getting an idea of what it takes to make a good shot both in the way it looks and feels. Mark


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## lunger 66

Hammer, that's what I expected. I thought I'd shoot a 290 with my current outfit before buying a dedicated barebow. I'm sure it'll get a little tougher without the stabilizer, and I wanted to start off solid with it. This is my plan anyway, lol!!!!! Mark


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## Corene1

lunger 66 said:


> Hammer, that's what I expected. I thought I'd shoot a 290 with my current outfit before buying a dedicated barebow. I'm sure it'll get a little tougher without the stabilizer, and I wanted to start off solid with it. This is my plan anyway, lol!!!!! Mark


Here is something to think about. I hear all the time on AT that a stab is worth so many more points than a WA barebow set up. My boss has a couple of the CD archery WF 25's and he has told me that they shoot as well without a stab as they do with one and that he doesn't notice a bit of difference in their reaction to the shot when shooting 20 yards indoors. He also says that the stab is a great benefit to even out a lesser riser, such as a lighter weight entry level riser to compete against a weighted barebow specific riser. He has been shooting non sighted fingers for the past 50 plus years or so and I trust his knowledge and advice . Ultimately it is the archer and their dedication that brings in the top scores but a nice balanced setup helps as well.


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## hammer08

Travis - good shooting, target looks good. Just a little tidying up to do around the edges 

Dakota - keep at it and the 270's will come. 258 is very solid. And yes it is nice to have access to some of the best shooters in the world. John and some of the others that post here are full of knowledge and in my experience always willling to help. 

Lunger - I think your shooting would be superb with or without a stab. Your scores indicate you know what you're doing. Shoot what you enjoy most. 

Corene - if you give me a cheap tuned Carrel Fantom riser, one with no stab just weights and then one with a stab I'm gonna shoot better scores with the bow that has the stab. Same for the WF. It's a great riser but if you give me one with a stab and one without I'm gonna shoot the one with the stab for a little higher score the majority of the time. The stab doesn't make the bow easier to shoot or make it easier for you to execute your shot but it will tighten your groups. A stab will help any bow, WF's aren't immune to that.


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## Corene1

hammer08 said:


> Travis - good shooting, target looks good. Just a little tidying up to do around the edges
> 
> Dakota - keep at it and the 270's will come. 258 is very solid. And yes it is nice to have access to some of the best shooters in the world. John and some of the others that post here are full of knowledge and in my experience always willling to help.
> 
> Lunger - I think your shooting would be superb with or without a stab. Your scores indicate you know what you're doing. Shoot what you enjoy most.
> 
> Corene - if you give me a cheap tuned Carrel Fantom riser, one with no stab just weights and then one with a stab I'm gonna shoot better scores with the bow that has the stab. Same for the WF. It's a great riser but if you give me one with a stab and one without I'm gonna shoot the one with the stab for a little higher score the majority of the time. The stab doesn't make the bow easier to shoot or make it easier for you to execute your shot but it will tighten your groups. A stab will help any bow, WF's aren't immune to that.


I guess I won't know until I can afford one so I have to go on his expertise and knowledge. Personally I believe the shooting characteristics of my lighter SF forged plus improve more with a 12 inch stabilizer than my heavier Avalon plus does . This being checked with the same stabilizer on both. I am also wondering why we purchase the better barebow specific riser if an entry level riser can be made just as competitive as the more expensive barebow riser. I truly believe that the mass in the heavier riser has something to do with the consistency of the shot .


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## Draven Olary

Corene1 said:


> I truly believe that the mass in the heavier riser has something to do with the consistency of the shot .


This is what I found to be true also. The more time you need to hold at full draw, the more you appreciate a heavier riser. It is a body mechanics explanation for this too.


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## keb

Headed to my 1st tournament today Kansas City pro/am shot out. I will keep you guys updates my practice rounds have been in 270-290. That’s scoring x like this shot will.


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## jogilvie69

keb said:


> Headed to my 1st tournament today Kansas City pro/am shot out. I will keep you guys updates my practice rounds have been in 270-290. That’s scoring x like this shot will.


Good luck!


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## keb

Shot a 257, 9x I think, nervous wow it’s wat diff than back yard shooting alone. Mentally exhausted and few bare bows even at this shot. Shot the Vegas round ar 8am.


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## keb

245 Vegas round, won the tournament over all. But I did not have allot of competition


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## travislsullivan

Congrats, gains some great experience in sure.


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## hammer08

I'd expect a lighter riser to improve more with a stab than a heavier riser would by adding a stab. But I expect they would both benefit from the stab. There's levels to everything. Take any riser, doesn't matter which one, one with weights and one with a stab. Make sure they come out to the same total weight. In my experience the one with the stab would shoot tighter groups with everything else being equal. Having the weight being further away from the bow will only make it more stable. Why do you think CD Archery uses "weight forward technology"? Everyone has different opinions and experiences though so you just have to shoot what you enjoy and works best for you.

Keb that's really good shooting for your first tournament. They can be tough on you for sure. For me the nerves are difficult to deal with. I try to focus on each shot and each individual step. Keep your mind occupied. 

I had my two shoots this weekend and I shot pretty well as far as score goes. Wasn't always making the cleanest shots though. Tried to practice a bit today but couldn't focus so I gave up on it pretty early. No sense in pushing it if it's not working that day. I've got a league shoot Wednesday and then Thursday morning I'll be heading up to Lancaster. Really looking forward to seeing old friends and meeting new ones.


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## yegon

I've been shooting with a full olympic stabilizer setup for a couple of weeks now preparing for an IFAA indoor tournament here in Europe that allows this for their version of "barebow"

the long stab helps a lot, I don't see why a shorter one whouldn't help at least a little


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## keb

I am using my 64" hunting bow. I may get a target rig at some point. Its a CD wf 19 which is a heavy riser.


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## Corene1

I am not disagreeing that a 12 stabilizer helps what I am saying is that it helps level the playing field between a person that can only afford an entry level set up when shooting against a much more expensive barebow specific riser that is design to shoot well without a stabilizer.


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## lunger 66

That makes sense, Corene. My outfit is pretty cheap. Hoyt horizon, 11 inch stab, spig zt rest, beiter plunger. Riser wasn't much over 200 new, but its 25 inch. The limbs weren't expensive either. Sf wood/glass med 32lb. My bolts are turned almost all the way in, so it probably adds a couple lbs. That bow I was shooting outdoor league with was a 21 inch hoyt excel, with an 8 inch stab. That outfit was 64 inch, and about 41ish dw. That bow was cheaper yet. Ill probably end up with a bb riser pretty soon if I just knew which one to get. It's tough for me because nobody around here shoots this stuff, so i'm stuck reading reviews from other people, instead of trying them out. Mark


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## FLlongshot

Ha Ha lunger, that's not cheap! I bought my entire setup new and paid less for the whole deal than your Beiter plunger! I did get the riser on clearance for $26 though! Lol!


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## lunger 66

Oh, now you're punishing me, lol!!!!!! I thought I was getting off easy! Well, it shoots good anyway. Man, you got a deal! Hahaha! !!!!!


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## Demmer3

Corene1 said:


> I am not disagreeing that a 12 stabilizer helps what I am saying is that it helps level the playing field between a person that can only afford an entry level set up when shooting against a much more expensive barebow specific riser that is design to shoot well without a stabilizer.


Its not leveling the playing field. Since they are a different set of rules. Barebow specific risers don't have to be expensive. I've seen used spig barebows sell for as little as $225. I've shot a SF forged riser with a chunk of weight in the stab hole, and it was quite nice. I hate the be the bearer of bad news, but there is little difference in a barebow specific riser and an Oly riser with barebow weights. Usually you can balance a Oly bow with weights at a lighter mass weight than a bb specific riser if you wanted to. I shoot a 27" Oly bow with a barebow weight on it. It's overall mass all setup ready to shoot is 6.75#. I could get this bow to balance the same around 5-5.25# total, but I like the feel of it at this weight. The only advantage that a bb specific riser has, is in classes that aren't allowed to add weights. 

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## Nick1959

Wow just read this whole thread.... my eyes hurt.
Looks like everyone is improving.
I got rid of the compounds and am shooting barebow.
For State will be shooting with the Trad guys so shooting without stabilizer.
Started seriously with recurves about 3 months ago shooting instinctive.
Managed to score 235 on NFAA 300 round.
Since gap shooting am averaging 250 to 260 or so in league.
On the night I shoot I believe I'm the only one without a sight but there are a few Oly guys there too.
Anyway.. enjoying this thread and really having fun with Barebow.

Later,
Nick


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## Corene1

Demmer3 said:


> Its not leveling the playing field. Since they are a different set of rules. Barebow specific risers don't have to be expensive. I've seen used spig barebows sell for as little as $225. I've shot a SF forged riser with a chunk of weight in the stab hole, and it was quite nice. I hate the be the bearer of bad news, but there is little difference in a barebow specific riser and an Oly riser with barebow weights. Usually you can balance a Oly bow with weights at a lighter mass weight than a bb specific riser if you wanted to. I shoot a 27" Oly bow with a barebow weight on it. It's overall mass all setup ready to shoot is 6.75#. I could get this bow to balance the same around 5-5.25# total, but I like the feel of it at this weight. The only advantage that a bb specific riser has, is in classes that aren't allowed to add weights.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


That is good information to know. So you would say that archers will not get an advantage by shooting a weighted barebow specific riser in most classes . So there is no need to go to one, and we can all just add weight to our existing risers and have the same shooting characteristics as a WF25? I use this as an example because I have handled one. I do understand that NFAA rules have a big difference between barebow division and trad recurve division. So I was just thinking about the NFAA trad recurve division and the pros and cons of the 12 inch stab on an entry level riser versus a competitive barebow specific riser. I wasn't going into the World Archery styles and rules. IN IBO there are a bunch of different recurve styles but, those shoots are few and far between out here so I am not real familiar with them.


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## centershot

A stabilizer is an advantage. The weight away from the riser (while balancing) also slows down the movement of the bow. There is a difference between weighting a riser to fit through a WA 12cm(?) ring and shooting with a 12" stabilizer. The WF riser was designed to be a very heavy riser that balances without (but works with) a stabilizer. There are also some European risers that are very exotic in how weights can be placed and moved around on the riser. To me all this has taken away from the mystique of shooting a single string bow and I tend to agree with Viper in that I do not care for how barebow and/or trad is often practiced today. Deciding on where you draw the line is a very personal thing. I also understand that without control over your shot, none of it matters......


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## welkin25

259/300, fita 40. minor improvement, yay! but did get very tired toward the last couple of ends, not sure if I could sustain this for another 300 in an official tournament. =\


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## JohnZhou

I've been following this thread with much interest. Joined a hunting league tonight and shot my first NFAA 300 round. Boy it's a heck a lot different than practicing and just fligging arras. Ended up with 217. Good start but got a long way to go. I was the only recurve guy, felt a little left out lol. My score was the lowest too lol. It was fun, now I want to keep track of my score and progress.


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## JohnZhou

BTW, going to Lancaster this weekend to pick up a barebow riser. Will take a look at Gill g2, spig BB, and SF forge +. Any other riser I should consider?


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## Nick1959

JohnZhou said:


> BTW, going to Lancaster this weekend to pick up a barebow riser. Will take a look at Gill g2, spig BB, and SF forge +. Any other riser I should consider?


Gillo G1 is another.


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## Mike Lawless

JohnZhou said:


> I've been following this thread with much interest. Joined a hunting league tonight and shot my first NFAA 300 round. Boy it's a heck a lot different than practicing and just fligging arras. Ended up with 217. Good start but got a long way to go. I was the only recurve guy, felt a little left out lol. My score was the lowest too lol. It was fun, now I want to keep track of my score and progress.


Hey John, I'm in exactly the same scenario as you are. Our league started in early November, and it was my first experience shooting in tight spaces. I too am the only recurve guy, and like you, my scores are the lowest. So I know what you mean. But, when I shooting good, they notice and a couple have asked "How can you do that without a sight?"

My goal was to hit 240 by the time the league ends. I'm shooting between 240 and 255 on average at my house, but on the shooting line, I'm giving up nearly 20 points. I tend to get sloppy in the middle and send a few out into the blue and black rings. I reckon there are distractions we need to learn to handle.


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## JohnZhou

Awesome Mike, let's get better together. Now that I have a baseline, I have a better perspective on these scores/numbers and what I need to work towards. First, I need to get a longer barebow riser. The 17" win win black wolf ain't cutting it for SW. Will be going to lancaster this weekend to check out some risers and to watch the lancaster classic.


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## Mike Lawless

JohnZhou said:


> Awesome Mike, let's get better together. Now that I have a baseline, I have a better perspective on these scores/numbers and what I need to work towards. First, I need to get a longer barebow riser. The 17" win win black wolf ain't cutting it for SW. Will be going to lancaster this weekend to check out some risers and to watch the lancaster classic.


It's a deal John!

My set-up is a PSE Theory, 25" riser and 36# limbs. It seems to be OK with string walking, but with the arrows I'm using currently, Carbon Express Predator, 700spine with 160gr tips (125 screw in with a 45 gr "half-out" insert) and 4" feathers, it's point on the x at 20 yards with no crawl....depending on the day. Some days are better than others.

I'm pretty envious that you will be at the Lancaster event. Of course we have Vegas. Maybe next year I'll go to that.


----------



## cubefx

Signed up for Florida Vegas shoot. Two weeks from now. Goal is shoot above 500.


----------



## Corene1

Our local archery shop had a small shoot tonight and we shot a 450 round shooting the FITA target . 15 ends of 3 arrows and rotated targets 8 ends into the round. Managed a 383 so I am pretty happy with that. The FITA face is not one of my favorites , hard to aim at for me.


----------



## tandemcpl

I shot in league last night and was able to pull out a 252 after a few really bad ends at the start.

I am having a hard time getting my consistency back after the four month layoff due to my surgery, but last night gave me a little hope as I had a few really good ends.

Be blessed.

Toby


----------



## lunger 66

That's great news, Toby! Keep after it. Your score is a great start after the layoff from your surgery! Mark


----------



## cubefx

Did simulcast/simulshoot my Lancaster Classic, by bringing the Laptop in the backyard.  Shot disappointing 249 on the first half and 267 on the second for a total of 516. Lets see if that score will make the cut.


----------



## cubefx

cubefx said:


> Did simulcast/simulshoot my Lancaster Classic, by bringing the Laptop in the backyard.  Shot disappointing 249 on the first half and 267 on the second for a total of 516. Lets see if that score will make the cut.


Just realized that Lancaster scoring X as 11 points. With 5 Xs my final score is 521


----------



## Stephen Morley

I shot a horrible tournament last week, felt like I was having release issues as I would throw a wild shot out the 5/4 zone, the more it happened the more it are away at my confidence, until every shot was poor. Managed to laugh it off and had my own competition with my friend who was also having a bad day lol

I suspect the cold weather and my issues with trigger finger was impacting my release, I switched to a thicker Tab which is allowing a very deep hook (so deep it's hard to count crawls), shooting has improved shot a 282 yesterday, not my best but not that far off either. I think the confidence will take a little longer to return, I suspect tourney pressure and recent train wreak will make it quite a challenge. I have Baltic champs next week, a few countries involved, Finland, Russia as well as the Baltic states.


----------



## lunger 66

Good luck to you Stephen, don't start doubting yourself now. I'm betting you'll do great! Mark


----------



## Stephen Morley

Thanks Lunger

Looking like myself and Katrin will shoot World Masters this Summer. WA 18m and 25m Indoors both on 40cm face, 60m for BB (70m Oly Recurve)Target round on 120cm face and WA market and unmarked Field rounds.

Sounds like a great challenge, shame no WA3D. Can't make World Fields as my Son starting School that week.


----------



## yegon

was pretty lazy with training last couple of months, its hard to give it your best when you can be out snowboarding with your son instead 

shot a tourney today after a long pause and actually surprised myself with a nice 260 12x, the first time I shot with my new Maxima RZs and I would say the arrows are the reason for the good score, my training for sure cant be


----------



## moog5050

Shot an entire 300 round today seated. Figured it is good practice for hunting although it was level in a blind chair. Shot my typical mid 260s so it was good to see no loss in accuracy. Doesn’t compete with those Lancaster shooters. Wow.


----------



## Demmer3

Stephen Morley said:


> Thanks Lunger
> 
> Looking like myself and Katrin will shoot World Masters this Summer. WA 18m and 25m Indoors both on 40cm face, 60m for BB (70m Oly Recurve)Target round on 120cm face and WA market and unmarked Field rounds.
> 
> Sounds like a great challenge, shame no WA3D. Can't make World Fields as my Son starting School that week.


Two more years then I'll join you at the masters games. 

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## keb

277 not counting x as 6 shot with 249.00 limb TRADTECH carbon wood 4th round with them
ATTACH=CONFIG]6381487[/ATTACH] 276 shot with 499.99 Limbs Tradtech rc foam/carbon this 1st round with them 

ENTRESTING


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## FLlongshot

I shot a new pb 274(270 conventional scoring) on my second qual round at the Classic this past Friday. Didn't get past the second elimination round Saturday but had a great time. Can't wait till next year!


----------



## cubefx

FLlongshot said:


> I shot a new pb 274(270 conventional scoring) on my second qual round at the Classic this past Friday. Didn't get past the second elimination round Saturday but had a great time. Can't wait till next year!


I am seriously considering to shoot Classic next year together with my son. 270 is in a vicinity for me, but not there yet. multiple 268s, averaging in the low 260s......


----------



## buddyrip

Shot a couple FITA 244's back to back with longbow and wood arrows a couple weeks ago. Shot two more a week later on Monday but after an indoor 3D tourney that weekend, just didn't have the mojo, like 212. I am rested for tonights action, we'll see how that goes.


----------



## FLlongshot

cubefx said:


> I am seriously considering to shoot Classic next year together with my son. 270 is in a vicinity for me, but not there yet. multiple 268s, averaging in the low 260s......


All I can say is GO! It is an awesome event-well run, great people. I can't say enough good things about the Classic. I'll be back next year.


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## Stephen Morley

Demmer, two more years till you're 40 years old?



Still just a boy lol


----------



## Nick1959

Nothing like shooting a 25 then a 17.
Geeezzz


----------



## keb

nice work


----------



## Rjennings10

2 months into shooting, shot a 253 (5 ring) felt I could have done better, need to fix my left and right shots with string blur. Shot the classic last week, 507.


----------



## JohnZhou

Nick1959 - very nicez. I know that feeling... My best was only 24, but boy did that feel great when you know it can be done.


----------



## hammer08

Rjennings10 said:


> 2 months into shooting, shot a 253 (5 ring) felt I could have done better, need to fix my left and right shots with string blur. Shot the classic last week, 507.


You shot fantastic, I was so happy for ya man! You're only gonna keep getting better. Time to break that club in now. 

Cubefx- go to the classic. You'll do just fine with those scores and you'll have a great time. 

Lee - I already told you but you shot great. I hope you go back next year!

Steve and John - hope you're both still kicking when I join you at the masters games in about 15 years


----------



## Stephen Morley

Hammer I hope so also. We have a Finnish legend come and visit us a few times every year (nearly 80 years old), as long as the terrain is flat he can shoot real good, Katrin told me he won European Barebow 3 times back in the 70's. He knocked me out of gold medal match on a WA3D event, he shot all 11's with a 40 year old Les Howis Recurve, I really admire this guy and hope I can shoot like him when I get to that age.


----------



## cubefx

266 and 267 for a total of 533.
That elusive 270.....so close....









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## yegon

very nice cubefx


----------



## matt_gold

Excellent, and it's easy to see the one shot that must have really pissed you off....


----------



## davidflorida

lee great shooting ,, Jesus is ready to go next year . Broke 250 last night at league . And the rest of my fellow archers good luck and good to see the progress. The guy that won it was solid one he got on a roll it was bam bam bam ..


----------



## FLlongshot

Hey David, missed you guys last night-I'll see you next Tuesday. I'll probably shoot my longbow. Good for Jesus, I told him we'd get him to 250 this season!


----------



## cubefx

davidflorida said:


> lee great shooting ,, Jesus is ready to go next year . Broke 250 last night at league . And the rest of my fellow archers good luck and good to see the progress. The guy that won it was solid one he got on a roll it was bam bam bam ..





FLlongshot said:


> Hey David, missed you guys last night-I'll see you next Tuesday. I'll probably shoot my longbow. Good for Jesus, I told him we'd get him to 250 this season!


I am so jealous, that you guys have leagues. There is nothing going on in Central Florida. Shooting FAA Vegas in Newberry this Saturday. First time shooting paper in competition. Will be happy if shoot above 500.


----------



## yegon

well at least theres good weather going on in Florida apparently  I would much prefer shooting outside instead of in my basement


----------



## cubefx

yegon said:


> well at least theres good weather going on in Florida apparently  I would much prefer shooting outside instead of in my basement


nice 66 degrees right now. 









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## yegon

nice range, now I am jealous


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## davidflorida

cube , shooters play land . we shot a money 3 -d last weekend,,, ya made some cash . And the weekend before and we trad archery society shoot . which cube took ,congrats . Delray this weekend 3-d shoot .Then qualifying ibo 3-d feb 11 then following weekend championship 3 day shoot . T B O coming up .And turkey hunting is coming fast . And lee Jesus shot a 249 last night


----------



## cubefx

Where is IBO qualifier? I am definitely shooting the East Coast trad Championship.


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## davidflorida

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## newhouse114

Some of the scores posted here are quite impressive. I'm stuck with a mid 250 average. My only consolation is that I shoot those scores with a 65 lb longbow. And I only have a few months left before I turn 60 years old.


----------



## barebowjay

Good shootin everyone. I've been saying pretty steady in the 230's. Lancaster was fun to watch. Those boys sure know how to shoot. Surprised to see demmer didn't come away with the win.


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## cubefx

Started a good round today. Shot consistent 27, 27,27,27 and that ***** happened on the fifth end.
Shot 10, 9 and last arrow busted the nock of the "9" arrow. Splitted the arrow, pushed nock inside, come out thru the side and striked the 5 ring.









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## lunger 66

Newhouse, that is a huge accomplishment! My hat's off to you, lol!!!! Makes me wonder what your score would be if you were shooting about 35lbs instead? Mark


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## lunger 66

Good shooting, Cubefx! Mark


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## Nick1959

OK this can be frustrating.
League last night.
I can see what I'm capable of on some ends.
Consistency is what I need to strive for.
Need to work on the mental part of the game.
Notice end 2 and 11 ... lol
Anyway thought I'd share.


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## Nick1959

Here's the breakdown


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## tandemcpl

Had another league night yesterday, and I improved a little over last week. Yesterday I was able to pull out a 259. The groups are starting to tighten up and I’m getting less fliers. My goal now is to just shoot better than last time.

Be blessed.

Toby


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## hammer08

Shot a couple rounds since Lancaster last weekend. 293 33X in my league and 295 34X in practice. Have another league shoot tomorrow and then a USA Archery sanctioned tournament I'm likely going to Sunday morning.


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## yegon

thats insane hammer - well done


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## FLlongshot

Grayson, that is simply awesome. I average a dozen points and x's below that and thought I was pretty sh*t hot. Great shooting.


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## hammer08

Post the good with the bad. I tried to get cute today and shoot a 5 spot during league. lol probably won't do that again. Got a little tight and threw a couple just out. 284 28X. My handicap is 6 so that hurt me pretty bad shooting against compound guys that are 300ish every time. Luckily my teammates picked me up today and shot really well. Stupid stupid me lol

Thank you all. Just the right equipment, good teachers, and a lot of practice with a good approach. Anyone can do it.


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## redtrain14

Wow hammer, great shooting!


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## keb

Shot the same score with no stabilizer 276 and added 13 points to my Vegas round without the stabilizer, hmmmm
Cd wf 19; I guess that riser really does not need it


----------



## Zips

Is that on a v butt face or a single spot face


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## Zips

Sorry about that I was wondering if that was on I-5 spot face or a single spot face


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## keb

Single


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## FLlongshot

Our indoor league finished tonight. I had to shoot a make up for one I missed so I shot back to back 300 rounds. I decided to shoot my longbow(getting ready for some 3d) and managed 263, 257. Not awful. The best news is I've been helping a friend this season who was shooting around 230. I told him we'd get him to 250 before the season ended, last week he got 249 and tonight on his last round he got 252! Really happy for him, it's great to see people improve!


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## hammer08

Great shooting Lee and Keb. Congrats to your friend end as well Lee!

Shot a 290 26X in league tonight. Was only 3 down at the half but kinda fell apart after that.


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## Stephen Morley

I managed to win the Baltic champs, it was unexpected as previous week was a disaster, fighting injury and lack of practice took its toll and confidence was pretty low, changed to lighter limbs 37# and different Tab pulled me up from 218 back to respectable 272, not world class but a good personal victory.

We also combine Flint rounds over here so you don't use long heavy arrows, you need something that's going to shoot 30 and 20 yards well.


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## hammer08

It's not always easy rebounding mentally but it seems you did a good job of it. 272 is a very good score, congratulations on the win!

Can you describe a flint round for me? I'm unfamiliar with it. What is considered a good score? I'd like to try one.


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## lunger 66

Well guys, I plumb drove it in the ditch last Monday night with a 252. I've been practicing for cowboy action nationals for some time now, and leave for Phoenix next Saturday. Apparently, I have to practice archery with some regularity to maintain, lol!!!!!! The last 6 ends were actually pretty good, so that was a relief. As soon as I return from nationals, i'll pick up the bow again and practice daily once again. I'm just spread too thin right now. Mark


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## yegon

glad to see you back in the game lunger, hope everything went well healthwise


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## lunger 66

Thanks Yegon, I'll get serious about the archery again as soon as I get through the sass nationals. Took 8 hydrocodone pills every day for 2 yrs, and now down to 3 per day. Hoping to get completely off them soon. Went to a different surgeon this time, and think he's probably got me fixed up this time. Had the same basic surgery a couple yrs ago from a different guy, and he fixed the problem I had, but gave me other problems instead. It's been a tough couple yrs to say the least, lol!!!! Mark


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## Stephen Morley

Hammer Flint is Field faces bunny and 35cm, 4 arrow ends from 20ft to 15y on bunny and 20,25 & 30y on 35cm, boy does 30y look a long way Indoors lol

Timo shot a 259 at world's I was second highest with 249 both higher than BB Compound, so anything 240 and higher is decent.


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## davidflorida

Glad your back shooting lunger . slo and steady on the back . been there done that never fun . Good luck at the nationals


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## lunger 66

Thanks David, good advice. I try slow and steady, but not know for my patience, lol!!!!! You guys are the best from AT. Mark


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## Squirrel

lunger 66 said:


> Thanks Yegon, I'll get serious about the archery again as soon as I get through the sass nationals. Took 8 hydrocodone pills every day for 2 yrs, and now down to 3 per day. Hoping to get completely off them soon. Went to a different surgeon this time, and think he's probably got me fixed up this time. Had the same basic surgery a couple yrs ago from a different guy, and he fixed the problem I had, but gave me other problems instead. It's been a tough couple yrs to say the least, lol!!!! Mark


I am sorry to read this. I had a 3rd back surgery last June (17) and my recovery has not gone well. I will spare the details. Best of luck to you sir.


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## Mike Lawless

One man's chicken salad is another man's chicken crap. I just broke into the 250 zone recently, so I'd be happy with that 252! But we know what you're capable of Mark. I know you'll bring 'er back around



lunger 66 said:


> Well guys, I plumb drove it in the ditch last Monday night with a 252.


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## hammer08

Target Panic sucks... 288 27X in practice this afternoon. Had to really focus on pulling through my shots. Held on the dot fairly steady but didn't pull through like I like to. Too many low and left shots. League tomorrow so we'll see how that goes.


----------



## yegon

27X in target panic mode, omg 

i shot my first IFAA 300 round tourney ever today, just a fun shoot but got myself totally hyped and nervous for some reason, didnt pull through my shots, made about 5-6 good shots (not a good ratio out of the 60) that I was technically happy with. It got progressively worse and the last two ends I actually did drive-by-shooting style which didnt happen to me for about a year. I would say I am perfectly ready for the European championships I go to next week lol .

Shot 254 which funny enough was good for first place.


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## hammer08

Yegon - I've got different levels of target panic lol if I'm calm and running my shot correctly I should end up 555-565 Fita and 290-295 NFAA. If I just have a few shots where it creeps in then I only lose a few points from those. The target panic I typically get from going to a bigger tournament knocks me down into the 540's Fita and mid 280's NFAA. I shoot somewhat in control but it's a fight mentally. There is a level below there where all bets are off and I lose control completely. Hasn't happened in a few years but could at any point if I let myself focus on the wrong things. Congrats on the win today. 254 is awesome for your first tournament. Certainly much higher than my first one was lol

I got a new set of limbs in today that I'm pretty excited about. Threw them on my bow, shot a bareshaft to make sure it was close, adjusted centershot and crawl, then shot a 294 in my league. Must have been the new gear placebo effect.


----------



## yegon

Shot the first day of the IFAA European championship today and managed to score 272. Very happy. I was shooting very well the first half 140. Last shots were in target panic mode but didnt get punished on the score. Flint round tomorrow.

This is my first international tourney. Heaps of shooters, everyone is very nice and it has been fun so far.


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## mrjeffro

Our indoor league has been shooting fita targets this year. Haven't shot a blue face in a long time so in hopes of building up my confidence ( from the beat down the fita targets give me) I tried a NFAA round. Was hoping to catch some of Hammers target panic and shoot in the high 280's  , but ended up with a 281


----------



## yegon

Just came back from the IFAA European indoor championships in Budapest. We did two 300 rounds - I scored 272 and 266 and a flint round (236). What I am happiest about is the fact that I scored well even despite target panic, but mainly that I was able to come back after falling apart mentally and shoot 17 good, controlled arrows out of my last 20. So now I know that I dont need to just give up when my head is not cooperating - I can get back on track.

The other thing that I am very happy about is that my scores were enough to finish in 4th place  which is way way waaaaay better than I expected in my wildest dreams


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## mrjeffro

Well done Yegon!! Congrats!!


----------



## moog5050

Struggled to shoot a 261 tonight. 84-88-89. I was either really on or spraying each end. Included 2 19 ends. But I am rebounding from a bad form change. It will come together.


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## keb

Have not shot a longbow in 2 years, got his bow two days ago tuned it this am and shot a 254, I will take it, had one end that was horrible and cost me 5-8 point should have be 260 plus my best score with hunting recurve is 277, so I am happy


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## keb

40lb bear Montana


----------



## Demmer3

First day with the stab on in preps of Cincinnati. Aiming at the bottom of the paper left me a touch vulnerable to left and rights. With my anchor, bow is a little too slow for me to really push point on and give it a run. I tried it briefly and shot 5 24s in a row. Not bad, but not the best so far.









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## lunger 66

You guys are doing great! I just came back home from Phoenix, sass cowboy action nationals. Came in 19th overall outta 730 shooters, and 4th in my category. Going to start back in with archery now, and really looking forward to it. Lunger


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## mrjeffro

Damnnnnn, that's impressive!!!! Good luck in Cincinnati 


.


Demmer3 said:


> First day with the stab on in preps of Cincinnati. Aiming at the bottom of the paper left me a touch vulnerable to left and rights. With my anchor, bow is a little too slow for me to really push point on and give it a run. I tried it briefly and shot 5 24s in a row. Not bad, but not the best so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Stephen Morley

Shot a 532 yesterday for my WA18 qualifying score, I'm happy with that, I was in bit of a hole 5-6 weeks ago, think I expect too much I'm only shooting Indoors 2-3 times a month.

Great shooting JD3


----------



## kenn1320

547/29x at great lake regionals. Short on arrows, tried the 5 spot first day and some misses hurt me. Switched to weaker arrows that I sighted in later that night and Sunday put up 280 on the single spot. 
State shoot is this weekend.


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## yegon

such beasts

back to training


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## moog5050

Good shooting by all of you. That's just a crazy target Demmer. Very impressive! So many in the x it doesn't even look like 60 arrows.


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## mdrnsamurai

NFAA Sectionals in NY yesterday. Shot a 237 not awesome but not bad for my first NFAA Tournament. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf2CpljDISS/?taken-by=mdrnsamurai


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## LongbowLogan

This is only my 3rd time ever shooting at paper with traditional gear with the first time being probably 7 years ago. I shot a Titan 3 riser with some short foam core limbs. 60" bow [email protected], grip sear and some added weight on the riser helped. That target had 70 arrows shot into it, 10 for warm up and 60 for score. This is my best score I've ever shot with a recurve. I shot a 280 9X with this setup, I would consider this bow a hunting bow. Can't wait to get a Barebow setup to try out on paper! Thanks to Tom Clum Sr and Joel Turner for the help, I feel like my form, mental game and confidence has gone through the roof!









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----------



## moog5050

LongbowLogan said:


> This is only my 3rd time ever shooting at paper with traditional gear with the first time being probably 7 years ago. I shot a Titan 3 riser with some short foam core limbs. 60" bow [email protected], grip sear and some added weight on the riser helped. That target had 70 arrows shot into it, 10 for warm up and 60 for score. This is my best score I've ever shot with a recurve. I shot a 280 9X with this setup, I would consider this bow a hunting bow. Can't wait to get a Barebow setup to try out on paper! Thanks to Tom Clum Sr and Joel Turner for the help, I feel like my form, mental game and confidence has gone through the roof!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


That will kill a deer or 2. Nice shooting!


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## jogilvie69

mdrnsamurai said:


> NFAA Sectionals in NY yesterday. Shot a 237 not awesome but not bad for my first NFAA Tournament.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf2CpljDISS/?taken-by=mdrnsamurai


Good shooting! Keep at it and those scores will go up.


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## Longbowfanatic

At the state championship, I shot two rounds. 256/267 for a total of 523


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## jogilvie69

Longbowfanatic said:


> At the state championship, I shot two rounds. 256/267 for a total of 523


Congrats buddy! Good shooting!


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## kenn1320

Looking forward to seeing your progression Logan, thats a heck of a score with that rig.


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## LongbowLogan

kenn1320 said:


> Looking forward to seeing your progression Logan, thats a heck of a score with that rig.


Thanks! I'm going to try and get a barebow setup here very soon, 25" or 27" riser making a 68" or 70" bow and [email protected] I can't wait to try it out, I had a barebow setup last summer for a little bit but wasn't real serious with it and only shot a few 3d with it. I did manage to shoot a 302 on a 30 target course with it though, 30 yard max. 

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## Demmer3

LongbowLogan said:


> Thanks! I'm going to try and get a barebow setup here very soon, 25" or 27" riser making a 68" or 70" bow and [email protected] I can't wait to try it out, I had a barebow setup last summer for a little bit but wasn't real serious with it and only shot a few 3d with it. I did manage to shoot a 302 on a 30 target course with it though, 30 yard max.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


27" gillo buddy. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## LongbowLogan

Demmer3 said:


> 27" gillo buddy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


That's at the top of my list! Time to get serious I guess hahaha

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## JohnZhou

+1 Gillo. My friend upgraded to a 27" Gillo G1 and now he is a beast (previously 17" Black Wolf). I was outshooting him before, now he is better than me. : ( The geometry on the 27" G1 is perfect for SW.


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## JohnZhou

I switched from a 17" to a 25" ilf. I need to relearn everything, my consistency went down the drain.


----------



## grantmac

That's one of the best targets I've ever seen shot with hunting tackle.


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## Stephen Morley

I lost yesterday in a FUN way. I sold my Moon riser, Kaya Tropics to a Longbow buddy, introduced him to the dark art of BB tuning/shooting, he hadn't decided on arrows yet so I loaned him some Lightspeeds until he figures out what he wants.

We shot 300 round and Flint round, so after 120 arrows we had exactly the same score, the shoot off was 3 ends at 25y 15y and the walk-up of one arrow at 30,25,20 & 15 yards, still exactly the same score so a one arrow shoot at 20y, he won by 1mm. It was great fun.

He the picked up his Longbow and shot another 120 arrows and won that div also, a crazy, awesome guy.

I got some serious competition, I might have to start actually practicing lol


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## matt_gold

Scored myself for the very first time ever at 20 yards.
145. 
Feeling proud, had fun, and it'll only get better!


----------



## JohnZhou

We have this amazing female barebow archer at our club. At the recent US Archery eastern regional event, she scored 526 which is only few points shy of a new record. My score was only 455. My goal is to try to break 500 this year.


----------



## JohnZhou

I feel FITA target face is much harder than the blue face. Even when your in the yellow, it can be 9 or 10.


----------



## matt_gold

I'm a tad confused....mine was 140 on a blue face/white bullseye, 20 yards, 60 arrows for a possible total of 300.
I see lots of scores in the 400's and 500's. What type of scoring is this?


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## matt_gold

sry meant 145.


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## lunger 66

You're doing it right for the nfaa 300 indoor round. I suspect you mean 245 instead of 145. Anywhere on the white is 5 points, then 4, 3, ect. A perfect score would be all 60 arrows in the white making 300 points. 
Some of the odd stuff you're seeing would be on vegas stuff, with the yellow bullseye. Those a 30 arrow rounds, and scored 10 for the center, with an x, or 11, for the very center. Sometimes these guys will shoot one and a half rounds, creating a 450 round. Some shoot 2 vegas for a total of 600 points too. Keep working at it. It's fun to watch the improvements as they come. Mark


----------



## Mike Lawless

I'm with ya John. I use both in my back yard, even though I'm at 19.5 yards (close enough). At this time, I'm averaging 245 on the FITA target, with a best of 251, and averaging around 255 with a best of 262 in the blue face.


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## lunger 66

Keep it up Mike, that's great!!! Mark


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## Stephen Morley

They gave out special 100 year anniversary medals for Indoor Nationals, very cool design. More to collect in Summer for Target Nationals ☺


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## Mike Lawless

lunger 66 said:


> Keep it up Mike, that's great!!! Mark


But then there's days like today when I seem to have contracted the "Yips" and I'm back down in the 230s. 

Probably getting too confident and then sloppiness creeps in. Damned frustrating sometimes


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## JohnZhou

Yep, same here Mike. I get some really bad days and good days. On good days, some ends I can get all arrows in the yellow. But still very inconsistent and hard to repeat. I feel like I'm progressing and regressing at times, hopefully more on the progressing side lol.


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## Demmer3

Very cool Stephen. Nice medal! Congratulations

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## Longbowfanatic

I finally shot a 274 with 18 x's, my personal best. Here are my latest practice session results. At least now I know I can do it!


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## moog5050

Great round LBF


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## matt_gold

LBF, that's really really amazing at 20 yards. 
What app is that, BTW? does it see where your arrows hit, without having to enter in the numbers yourself?


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## JohnZhou

Nice shooting LBF!


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## lunger 66

Great looking target, LBF! Mark


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## matt_gold

lunger 66 said:


> You're doing it right for the nfaa 300 indoor round. I suspect you mean 245 instead of 145. Anywhere on the white is 5 points, then 4, 3, ect. A perfect score would be all 60 arrows in the white making 300 points.
> Some of the odd stuff you're seeing would be on vegas stuff, with the yellow bullseye. Those a 30 arrow rounds, and scored 10 for the center, with an x, or 11, for the very center. Sometimes these guys will shoot one and a half rounds, creating a 450 round. Some shoot 2 vegas for a total of 600 points too. Keep working at it. It's fun to watch the improvements as they come. Mark


Actually......I mean 145. At this point, I'm happy that I can keep all 60 arrows inside 40cm at 20 yards.
There's a long way to go. I definitely need to score myself near the video monitor (at my local indoor range), so I can see where each shot lands. 20 yards is too far for me to see aligned fletching. My brain can't correct properly.
I realize too that all year last year I shot in my backyard, which is 16 yards, and my basement (for form) which is 7 yards. Maybe 20 yards is feeling a bit further away that it should, and the 8cm white circle is seeming really small. I really think that 145 is going to steadily nudge up towards 200 and past, pretty soon. knock on wood.


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## Mike Lawless

matt_gold said:


> Actually......I mean 145. At this point, I'm happy that I can keep all 60 arrows inside 40cm at 20 yards.
> There's a long way to go. I definitely need to score myself near the video monitor (at my local indoor range), so I can see where each shot lands. 20 yards is too far for me to see aligned fletching. My brain can't correct properly.
> I realize too that all year last year I shot in my backyard, which is 16 yards, and my basement (for form) which is 7 yards. Maybe 20 yards is feeling a bit further away that it should, and the 8cm white circle is seeming really small. I really think that 145 is going to steadily nudge up towards 200 and past, pretty soon. knock on wood.


I too was "in your shoes" last year. My first league shoot was where I got my first score, was 166 on a ten ring Vegas target. Reading and getting advice here, videos, and lots of practice nearly got me to my goal of 230 by the time league night ends in early Feb, shooting a 226. Keeping that going by stretching my backyard range out to about 19.5 yards, I'm hovering around 250 when everything is working right. Occasionally, it's a couple steps backward, and it takes a few rounds to "put the wheels back on" so to speak.

There's a huge knowledge base and plenty of encouragement and pointers here and elsewhere. If you're willing to do the practice and risk going backwards to correct flaws, you can hit your goal and beyond.


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## lunger 66

Matt, that's a start that all of us has went through, simply trying to keep them all on the blue area. I like to keep things as simple as possible, so I picked on only one problem at a time whichever was my weakest link at that time. Your single worst problem is far easier to fix than all of them together, and you will progress faster. Example would be if you can group well at twenty yards, but aren't hitting the middle, you'll need more contrast in your fletching, different glasses, the mirror thing you were talking about. If it's a form issue, what part of it? Break everything down in smaller pieces, and you can fix them. You already have the very most important part of this ingrained in you right now, and that is the will to want to do well at this. You've proven that through questions, posts, ect. I hope this helps you, and you keep working hard at this. If this accuracy thing was easy, it wouldn't be worth having. Mark


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## moog5050

Lunger improved more quickly than anyone I know. I would listen to his advice.


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## Mike Lawless

JohnZhou said:


> Yep, same here Mike. I get some really bad days and good days. On good days, some ends I can get all arrows in the yellow. But still very inconsistent and hard to repeat. I feel like I'm progressing and regressing at times, hopefully more on the progressing side lol.


Y'know it's been one of those WEEKS! I seem to have "Lost the Rabbit" somewhere, somehow. But I'm starting to think it may because I've switched to a three spot target face. This came about because I've "Robin Hooded" four arrows in the last coupla months. I figured switching to a three spot would greatly reduce that possibility. (Not to mention just flat out shooting the center completely out of my foam target block)

But man, either somethings gone wrong that I can't pinpoint, or I just can't shoot a three spot at this point in my "career." A vision thing? A "brain register" thing? 

I reckon I'll switch back to a single spot and see if I can get the wheels bolted back on.


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## kenn1320

matt_gold said:


> Actually......I mean 145. At this point, I'm happy that I can keep all 60 arrows inside 40cm at 20 yards.
> There's a long way to go. I definitely need to score myself near the video monitor (at my local indoor range), so I can see where each shot lands. 20 yards is too far for me to see aligned fletching. My brain can't correct properly.
> I realize too that all year last year I shot in my backyard, which is 16 yards, and my basement (for form) which is 7 yards. Maybe 20 yards is feeling a bit further away that it should, and the 8cm white circle is seeming really small. I really think that 145 is going to steadily nudge up towards 200 and past, pretty soon. knock on wood.


Matt are you shooting instinctive? Its nice to see where the arrows are hitting in the target, but not necessary. Get the bow hitting where your looking/aiming and the arrows will be there when you pull them. On the bright side, not being able to see them will keep your "peeking" down, which helps your scores.
Also the 3 and or 5 spots are much harder to score well on. I believe its due to shoulder position as you have to move your bow for each shot. This leads to inconsistency's.


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## JohnZhou

About Robin Hood, one thing I've learned is to use a pin nock. This would help salvage your shaft because the arrow tip would most of the time take a detour and go around the nock, thus preventing spliting your shaft; that is if you're using carbon shaft.


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## Longbowfanatic

matt_gold said:


> LBF, that's really really amazing at 20 yards.
> What app is that, BTW? does it see where your arrows hit, without having to enter in the numbers yourself?



Thanks, guys. This year, I have improved significantly and it feels good. Matt, This app is called Target Tracker on Apple apps and you have to manually enter the arrow strikes. PM me if you need more info.


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## Mike Lawless

JohnZhou said:


> About Robin Hood, one thing I've learned is to use a pin nock. This would help salvage your shaft because the arrow tip would most of the time take a detour and go around the nock, thus preventing spliting your shaft; that is if you're using carbon shaft.


I was tossing that idea around when I decided that the "three spot" would be more economical. I'll probably have to revisit that.


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## Draven Olary

A couple of weeks ago I got a 23" Hoyt Aerotec riser. I have TT 2.0 mediums #[email protected]" that on this riser are #[email protected]". Arrows are CE Predator II 3050 - 400gr. 
New PB 273/300, 4 points above my PB with the #[email protected]" Super Kodiak. Shooting split fingers, Bateman Cordovan tab and split vision. Still just getting used to this bow, but I can say this riser feels great for me.


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## lunger 66

How do you like shooting split vision, Draven? That's exactly how I shoot Also. It seems like it's too easy for me to make windage errors by focusing on the arrow tip too much. I'm about 85 percent target, with arrow position in peripheral vision. Mark


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## Draven Olary

It's the perfect aiming system for me. I've seen a downside for it recently. Shooting the same 20 yards each training day this winter, I am loosing the "feel" for random distances above 30 yards. I hardly wait to get back on the 3D course and play again between 20 and 60 yards.


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## Draven Olary

matt_gold said:


> Actually......I mean 145. At this point, I'm happy that I can keep all 60 arrows inside 40cm at 20 yards.
> There's a long way to go. I definitely need to score myself near the video monitor (at my local indoor range), so I can see where each shot lands. 20 yards is too far for me to see aligned fletching. My brain can't correct properly.
> I realize too that all year last year I shot in my backyard, which is 16 yards, and my basement (for form) which is 7 yards. Maybe 20 yards is feeling a bit further away that it should, and the 8cm white circle is seeming really small. I really think that 145 is going to steadily nudge up towards 200 and past, pretty soon. knock on wood.


Matt, go back to the beginning of this topic and I think around page 10 Viper is saying a lot of good stuff about how to train for this. One of his advises was to start at 10 yards and shoot 300 round. Stay there until you get 270/300. When you achieve that, go to 15 yards and shoot 300 round until you get 270. And move to 20 yards after that. Don't start with 20 if you don't shoot above 20 often.


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## matt_gold

Draven Olary said:


> Matt, go back to the beginning of this topic and I think around page 10 Viper is saying a lot of good stuff about how to train for this. One of his advises was to start at 10 yards and shoot 300 round. Stay there until you get 270/300. When you achieve that, go to 15 yards and shoot 300 round until you get 270. And move to 20 yards after that. Don't start with 20 if you don't shoot above 20 often.


That is some great advice. (Viper? Draven? both?)
My current shooting opportunities are 7 yards, 16 yards, and 20 yards.
7 is my basement, 
16 is my property (SAFELY....I can do 19, but not too wisely)
and 20 is my archery club. It's a good spot, charges me only 10$/hr indoors after a yearly membership of 100$, free coffee and cookies, and the folks there are great, and the owner tends to help me constantly, for which I'm grateful.
Perhaps my mistake is gauging my improvement at 20, right off the bat.

I think I should start scoring myself at only 7 yards, (maybe 20 sets of 3, so as to preserve my arrows) then score at 16, then 20.

That being said, not sure if I can stop scoring myself at 20 yards, at least on occasion. :cool2: While it might not be an optimal path, it's just such a crazy fun distance to shoot at, and score.


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## redtrain14

I my first 300 round a couple months back, scored a 237. 

Shot two recent 420 rounds in our local NFAA shoots. Scored a 260 and yesterday a 271. Counting the 6’s and 7’s, I believe that would work out to a 253 and a 260 on a 300 round. I’m a bit new to the formal shoots so, I’m not sure if the targets are the same?

Anyway, I put a few 3’s on the table but no real horrible fliers. I’m pretty happy. 

I shot the 237 and the 260/253 with my hunting rig and the 271/260 with a target rig I just put together. 


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## grantmac

The highest per arrow score on the NFAA target is a 5.


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## redtrain14

Understood. I was subtracting 1 pt for each 6 and 2pts for each 7 to come up with the my 300 scores. Maybe this is incorrect? I am unclear on if the 420 single spot and the NFAA 300 targets have the same size scoring rings. 


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## Demmer3

redtrain14 said:


> Understood. I was subtracting 1 pt for each 6 and 2pts for each 7 to come up with the my 300 scores. Maybe this is incorrect? I am unclear on if the 420 single spot and the NFAA 300 targets have the same size scoring rings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Take a pic of the target and post it. I see most 420s shot on a lighter blue faced target. Those have huge 4 rings. 

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## redtrain14

Demmer3 said:


> Take a pic of the target and post it. I see most 420s shot on a lighter blue faced target. Those have huge 4 rings.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I didn’t take a picture but I know I was the light blue face so, the scores above don’t translate. My bad. 

🤫


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## kenn1320

redtrain14 said:


> I didn’t take a picture but I know I was the light blue face so, the scores above don’t translate. My bad.
> 
> &#55358;&#56619;
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Depends, I convert the scores. Yes the 4 ring is larger, but you can look at the target and measure if needed if the arrow was a nfaa 4 or really a 3. I just count the 6's and 7's as my X count. This 420 target/game is a Michigan thing I thought, Redtrain14 shoot me a pm if your from Mi.


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## yegon

with the outdoor season starting I tried a modified version of the 300 round, shot it at the 122cm target (thats the one they use in the olympics) from 44 yards (thats the distance and target we shoot outdoor barebow competitions here). The scores seem to be very similar but the feel is totally different - still great fun though 

I will definitely get back into more regular 20yard rounds too

so this longer one i scored like the NFAA 300 (yellow=5, red=4, blue=3, black=2 and white=1) and ended up with 274/5x - pretty sure I can do better, especially the Xs


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## Warmuth

Well, even though I'm not really supposed to be aiming yet I couldn't resist and threw up a target just to see what would happen. Stepped out to 12 yards and surprisingly shot 275. I figured 240-250 would be about where I'd land since it didn't look like I was likely to miss the 4 at that yardage. Shot way more 5's than I thought I would and a single three early on. I think a 240 at 15 wouldn't be too hard but it'll be some time before I even attempt 20. That 15 to 20 jump is difficult for me at this level.


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## Warmuth

Unsurprisingly I stepped out to 15 and shot 241 today. The nine extra feet really limits the fives and introduces threes. No doubt on a good day I'd shoot better, had a fair amount of "go*^&^&mit!" shots in the mix.


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## lunger 66

That's a great place to start, Warmuth. Keep working at it, and you'll be glad you did! Mark


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## Warmuth

Thanks, it’s going to be a journey to the level of the shooters posting here. As cool as it would be to shoot a 240 @20 I do get to enjoy never being frustrated since there’s no expectations of me being able to do that at this point haha.


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## lunger 66

My wife has shown more interest in this lately. A couple weeks ago she shot her very first 300 round and scored 141 1x. She tried another round last Monday, and shot a 181 1x. She gets pretty frustrated seeing a nice group go to hell "for no reason" she claims. Mark


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## Warmuth

No problem figuring out the reasons for bad shots for me lol. I know I can shoot in the 5 ring, seems to be a game of limiting form errors more than anything else.


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## Bamby02

After some interesting reading in this topic I decided to give it a try, took 2 rounds today and scored 229 and 210 at 20y. I believe not that bad for barebow and shooting for not even 3 weeks? Hope I will get to improve or at least keep scores like this in near future.


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## Corene1

Bamby02 said:


> After some interesting reading in this topic I decided to give it a try, took 2 rounds today and scored 229 and 210 at 20y. I believe not that bad for barebow and shooting for not even 3 weeks? Hope I will get to improve or at least keep scores like this in near future.


Don't worry about the scores, concentrate on good form and a smooth strong shot and the scores will come. When you practice form take the target down it is just a distraction from concentrating on each little piece of your form that you are working on at the time.


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## FLlongshot

Saw this thread come back up and got all giddy lol! Haven't shot indoor since Lancaster so pinned up a WA 40cm shot 3 warm ups to confirm my crawl then 30 more for 271, 4x.


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## lunger 66

Outstanding! !!!


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## Corene1

Just found out the final scores on the CBH/SAA indoor round and I finished #1 in my division. 363 for 45 arrows on the 40CM. FITA face.I would have scored 3rd. in the mens recurve division so I am pretty happy with that. It is a state wide mail in tournament that is supposed let all shooters shoot against each other so driving distance is not a factor. Each area has a sponsored host that the tournament is shot at to keep thing equal and fair. For now I won't be shooting much due to surgery last week, but I will start at it hard and heavy after I heal.


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## lunger 66

Good luck to you, Corene! That's great shooting too. Hoping you recover quickly. Mark


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## Warmuth

Shot a 258 from 15 today, little bit of progress. The target seems a bit less far now than it used to and the threes feel like I made a shot that missed the entire face. 20 still feels like a mile, but 15 felt that way not so long ago.


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## FLlongshot

Just finished a 30 arrow 18m round with my longbow and cedar arrows for a 3x 245. Bummed about those blue ringers.


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## FLlongshot

Couldn't resist so shot another 30 with my longbow and carbon hunting arrows...250. No x's-very sad. Lol! I love chasing that gold dot!


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## lunger 66

Good shooting with a longbow!!!! Plus cedar arrows! Mark


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## FLlongshot

Thanks Lunger. I'm trying to get ready for the Tradworlds but the spot keeps beckoning me LOL! I use it to test my wood arrows for consistent flight at various yardages and I cant help but shoot a round! I really should just pay attention to 3d at this point. But...its...so...hard...not...to...shoot...the...spot...ahhhhh!


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## Mike Lawless

FLlongshot said:


> But...its...so...hard...not...to...shoot...the...spot...ahhhhh!


LOL. "the spot.....my preciousssss!"


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## FLlongshot

Mike Lawless said:


> LOL. "the spot.....my preciousssss!"


Ha! Unfortunately, it feels exactly like that at times!


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## davidflorida

I put a 259 up on the blue face , that's my top score . 260 coming just got to eliminate the lack of focus on some shots . Lee my omega will be here soon but not soon enough . Great shooting guys


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## FLlongshot

davidflorida said:


> I put a 259 up on the blue face , that's my top score . 260 coming just got to eliminate the lack of focus on some shots . Lee my omega will be here soon but not soon enough . Great shooting guys
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's good shooting David! Those points come slower and slower the higher you go. It'll teach you to keep your game face on for sure!


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## Warmuth

After hitting a 269 at 15 over the weekend I decided just to shoot one at 20 and see. Hit a 239 which is pretty decent shooting for me. I'll park it back at 15 again, shooting out at 20 is stressful and probably doesn't do me much good if I'm trying to score it as I tend to start to aiming a bit too much.


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## moog5050

Warmuth said:


> After hitting a 269 at 15 over the weekend I decided just to shoot one at 20 and see. Hit a 239 which is pretty decent shooting for me. I'll park it back at 15 again, shooting out at 20 is stressful and probably doesn't do me much good if I'm trying to score it as I tend to start to aiming a bit too much.


Doing well. Keep it up.


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## lunger 66

*Starting Over*

Here's today's 300 round. 266 14x Mark


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## yegon

tried the high grip again today - I feel my hand sits better in the high grip but I cant get into my back as easily as with the medium grip. And of course I am used to the medium grip so I shoot it better. Still not sure if I should give the high grip a serious go or stick with the medium

258/10x

high grip - 123
medium grip - 135


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## lunger 66

I'd like to hear more opinions on the grip. After looking at your results, i'm wondering if it isn't just that you are more used to the medium vs the high? This is over my head, but some others on here could probably have some accurate input on this. Mark


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## davidflorida

Finally hit 260 , light was fading fast but got it done . Shot a 245 Sunday [emoji853]and a 254 Tuesday , 


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## lunger 66

You're gaining ground! If I remember right, you don't shoot gap, or split vision. Well done! Mark


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## davidflorida

I'm string walking about 1/4 inch down to b point on . 23 inch excel riser uuka longs 


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## davidflorida

little tweaking , looks like I was left with a bunch of shots . I played with my tiller 1/4 turn on both limbs .


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## lunger 66

David, we're pretty even right now. I'm putting 5 or 6 shots outta the 4 ring myself. Almost broke my bow in half this morning after watching a wild shot. Been working hard every day refining form, and get stung every once in awhile. Mark


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## davidflorida

Mark , it's amazing how fast your coming back from your surgery . You will be besting your old scores in no time . I don't think you know slow and steady [emoji1303]🤣


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## lunger 66

It hasn't been easy. I have 6 bolts, 2 rods, a cage, and one spacer block where a disc used to be. My advice to everyone is to protect your back, work smart and not injure yourselves. I'm almost 50, and need new knees too. Doc says i've worn my parts out, lol!!!! Just thankful to be able to live a fairly normal life after this, and do my hobbies.


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## Corene1

Hey Lunger I feel your pain . I am recovering from hip replacement surgery on 5/22 . At 63 I don't heal as fast as I used to but I was able to go out and shoot today and combine my walking exercise with shooting. Really nice to be able to set up and not have a screwed up hip wobbling around. My Doc won't let me go onto the field range yet so I guess I will be shooting 20 yards on flat ground for awhile. Dropped down 6 pounds to start with since I haven't shot since 4/30 . After warm up I was able to shoot a 263 w/5x. A lot of edge shots but hey it's a start. I have a few more weeks of this so I will see how it progresses , but can't wait to get back to the field range. In the mean time I will try and give you guys a little competition. Good luck with your shooting.


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## lunger 66

That's just great that you're walking around some, and shooting again! You'll probably be better than ever soon, if you do what you're supposed to do. You're probably still at the stage where you gotta dig deep to walk around, and do things. Not sure how long it takes for a hip.... wishing you the best, and glad to hear from you. Mark


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## davidflorida

Hope you heal quick corene Sounds like we've got a mash unit . But really hope the best for us all dealing with our injuries. I had not shot a 300 round since I finally hit 260 . Shooting a lil at dots ,getting gator gear ready and a waiting for our quota hunts to get picked ... none for me [emoji30]but my son got one quota and there are other public options .







bumped up to a 263 . Moved my springy in just a hair and it seemed to center my pattern a little . [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303]good shooting all season around the corner . 


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## davidflorida

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## lunger 66

Good decision moving the rest. Nice looking target! Mark


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## Corene1

Wow! You don't see springy's too much any more. A very under rated rest. My boss and many of the local finger shooters around here shoot them exclusively, he also helped Pat Norris make the new adjustable ones. http://www.patnorrisarchery.com/?product_cat=arrow-rests. They are really easy to adjust center shot with . No more loosening the spring and rotating the brass body. They are now mounted and you just turn the knob in and out for adjustment.


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## FLlongshot

Our indoor league started last night. New bow, new arrows, opened up with 18x 274. Not bad, did shoot a pair of 3's which always bugs me lol. Trying to get to 290 this year, we'll see how that goes.


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## davidflorida

247 with the woodies off my hunting bow . Last end was a 17 [emoji30]. 250 is so close 


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## FLlongshot

That's great shooting David! Woodies are their own brand of fun.


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## LongbowLogan

A 283 with my Morrison ilf hunting setup!!









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## davidflorida

U making some new arrows up lee . Longbow looks like your in the right place . [emoji1303]


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## Mike Lawless

I haven't contributed to this thread for quite some time. This summer, I was hitting around 260 pretty consistently on the 10 ring target in my back yard (19 yards). But then along came a new bow with lighter limbs, trying different set-ups, working on correcting form flaws.....so it's been a few steps back before going back forward, and repeating that with every change. 

"Vegas League" began a few weeks ago, and although I've been in the low to mid 240s, I'm closing in on an arrow/tune set-up, and I have far fewer flyers, and the ones I do have are less severe. The main trouble has been homing in on consistent arrow flight because I've had four different arrows on four successive league nights. One set just too heavy, one set too stiff (even though they were same spine rating as my "go-to" arrows), and trying different point weights. After all that, I'm back to the same arrow set I started with!


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## davidflorida

That's the fun of it all Mike . I got to 266 I think was my best on my Hoyt . But somehow shooting a one piece long bow with its quiet hum at the shot sucked me in . [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303]


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## Mike Lawless

davidflorida said:


> That's the fun of it all Mike . I got to 266 I think was my best on my Hoyt . But somehow shooting a one piece long bow with its quiet hum at the shot sucked me in . [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303]
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is fun David. And challenging, as well as frustrating at times. But man, when things go right, it is truly satisfying. Fortunately, at this point the truly satisfying days far FAR outweigh the frustrating days!


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## Mike Lawless

davidflorida said:


> That's the fun of it all Mike . I got to 266 I think was my best on my Hoyt . But somehow shooting a one piece long bow with its quiet hum at the shot sucked me in . [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303]
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oops. Double post


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## lunger 66

It's been a tough yr to keep practice going, but have started again. Shot my first indoor 450 round on Vegas face a couple Mondays ago at 352. Then shot a 374 last Monday. The club is going to switch to a 300 round with the blue face target fairly soon, I was told. Mark


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## Mike Lawless

What is that? 8.3 per arrow average Mark? It amazes me about how much of a "up and down" game this is, and how much fractions of an inch can have such an impact. FRACTIONS of an inch. 

Went to the range last night and had a pretty good round going. 10 ring target. Had a 136 in the first half. That matches my best ever. Then a couple ends into the second half, I was hitting low. Nice and tight, but below the gold. 7s & 8s. Ended up with 127 in the second half, 263 total. 

It seems to be a recurring theme, first half better than the second. I may need to extend my practice sessions out to improve my "shooting stamina." Gettin' sloppy in the second half


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## lunger 66

Pretty common Mike, I was getting tired also. I could see my performance slipping, then saw a clock counting down on the wall. We had 2 minutes to shoot 3 arrows. The compound shooter next to me was shooting the same speed I was and kinda poor. The next end I shot the first arrow into the 10 ring then rested for quite awhile before shooting the second arrow. It hit the 9 ring in the yellow. Then I waited for the last 30 secs on the clock, and smacked another 9. My game turned back around and I salvaged a bunch of points. Too bad I didn't think of it sooner.


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## oscar-eleven

Best 300 round I've shot has been a 258. That was with my hunting bow, IIRC it was with a Titan riser and med. WW foam core limbs in the low 50# range. I'm envious, I don't have a place to shoot indoors anymore. I like 300 round shooting better than 3D. Love the head game.


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## Mike Lawless

lunger 66 said:


> Pretty common Mike, I was getting tired also. I could see my performance slipping, then saw a clock counting down on the wall. We had 2 minutes to shoot 3 arrows. The compound shooter next to me was shooting the same speed I was and kinda poor. The next end I shot the first arrow into the 10 ring then rested for quite awhile before shooting the second arrow. It hit the 9 ring in the yellow. Then I waited for the last 30 secs on the clock, and smacked another 9. My game turned back around and I salvaged a bunch of points. Too bad I didn't think of it sooner.


Good idear Mark. I typically have at least a whole minute left on the clock after my shots. I too need to learn to slow down.




oscar-eleven said:


> Best 300 round I've shot has been a 258. That was with my hunting bow, IIRC it was with a Titan riser and med. WW foam core limbs in the low 50# range. I'm envious, I don't have a place to shoot indoors anymore. I like 300 round shooting better than 3D. Love the head game.


yeah, I'm pretty lucky. My backyard range is 19 yards, and the local indoor range is a mile from my house. "The Head Game" .... a big part of just about any competition endeavor!


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## lunger 66

It's kinda aggravating, I'm the only trad shooter there. People come to me and say if they could shoot a recurve as good as I do, they'd switch to trad from their compound. I tell them I'm still aiming, it's not that hard to reach my skill level, and you're more than welcome to try mine, yet they won't do it. To shoot decent at trad, you at least have to try it.


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## Mike Lawless

It's the same way for me as well Mark. I reckon we're just swimming against the current on that. I too get tons of compliments, and questions such "I wanna shoot a recurve, but I don't wanna look like a noob." Basically they're afraid of looking bad. Even some that say, "how can you do that without a sight?" A couple times I've answered "I use the force!"

Last night was league night. Something went haywire. Probably jerkin' my release on several shots. I'd have one or two in the gold and one in the five. Or one in the gold, one in the red and one in the blue. One time three tightly grouped arrows....below the gold. Got it turned around on the last three ends. That was a bit frustrating. Ended up at 243.

Like oscar says....head games.


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## lunger 66

You'll plow through it. Don't give up.
I think if we were all afraid of looking bad, or being embarrassed, nobody would accomplish anything.


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## ChadMR82

LongbowLogan said:


> A 283 with my Morrison ilf hunting setup!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Logan that is awesome! Even with a micro diameter shaft, very cool.


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## lunger 66

Outstanding!!!! Mark


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## Mike Lawless

League night last night. Haven't been able to get away from muffed shots that should not have been muffed. We shoot a Vegas 10 ring at league nights here. I opened up with a 21 on the first end. 8-7-6. All to the right. That pretty much set the tone. I managed to finish well, but way too late to salvage the round, finishing with another 243. Some glitch has snuck in and stuck. Just gotta figure it out.


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## Corene1

Mike Lawless said:


> League night last night. Haven't been able to get away from muffed shots that should not have been muffed. We shoot a Vegas 10 ring at league nights here. I opened up with a 21 on the first end. 8-7-6. All to the right. That pretty much set the tone. I managed to finish well, but way too late to salvage the round, finishing with another 243. Some glitch has snuck in and stuck. Just gotta figure it out.


Are you getting in plenty of warm up arrows before scoring starts? Is your shot timing different ,maybe holding longer trying to make a better shot? If they are all right misses , maybe the bow arm is collapsing a bit.


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## Mike Lawless

Plenty of warm up shots Corene. Probably 30 or 40. I think you'r right. A collapse is the likely culprit. I'm trying not to be too stiff with my bow arm, but perhaps when thing start going sour, I tend to stiffen up and the mistakes are amplified.

I've found that with light limbs (26lbs), I've lost a bit of consistency. Although I can shoot longer sessions, they are not very forgiving. Some days are great....some days are just a struggle to keep the mistakes minimized. I'll get 'er figured out.


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## lunger 66

Watching the float Mike. If it doesn't look real small, and solid sight picture, let it down. I had to miss last league, but that was just my plan, lol!!! Mark


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## Mike Lawless

Thanks Mark. Working on that too!


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## lunger 66

I usually get kind of a weak, sick feeling come over me right before making a poor shot. My new year's resolution is to pay more attention to that.


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## Mike Lawless

That's pretty interesting Mark...in a weird way. I reckon it would be good to recognize that and then let down. 

We talked about letting down and working within the confines of the shot clock a few posts back. But that was related to getting tired and having more muffed shots on the second half. I reckon that would put a limit on how many times you could let down, shake off whatever was wacked out. But perhaps many of us (at least least those who shoot at these types of events) would benefit from using the entire two minutes. I really tried to take my time on the last couple of nights, but still had 45 to 55 seconds left. I see some of the compound shooters hold for 20, sometime 30 seconds, and they seem rock steady, using the whole 2 minutes. I know we're holding a bit more weight, but it could be something to try to emulate to some degree.


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## lunger 66

Really good points! We're all different, but I nearly always make a good shot for the first arrow, often the second, and could butcher the third. I noticed a pattern after plenty of damage was done, then started intentionally burning off time on the clock, and it did tighten my float a bit. I'm thinking maybe some of this is a mental trick to play on myself, but the time is there to burn if needed. We'll see how tomorrow goes. Mark


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## Mike Lawless

LOL, yeah, mine follow a similar pattern.
Yesterday I shot 45 arrows after taking a few warm up shots. As you mentioned, the first three warm up shots were all gold! Then the first 15 was 135. Second 15, 123....I noticed I was collapsing and my shots were going low and right. Third 15 was 132. On the third set, I talked myself through my bow arm set all the way to follow through. I said out loud, "bow arm, check draw arm position, draw, anchor, hover, hover, hover....." then after release, "hold on target." 

I might get some looks at league nights. Maybe.

But it seems to be a repeating pattern. Open up shooting fairly well. Then just fall back into being sloppy. Archery just won't let us do that! The sooner we can get that into our head, the better we can become. 

This "self-talk" is something I've been doing for years in my drag race car. That and visualizing the run before actually making it. It seems to help in archery too.


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## lunger 66

Great shooting! I backslid 10 points, but am trying to fight a cold. I know I'm at a plateau right now, even if I wasn't sick. We have a couple weeks off for the holidays before returning to league. Going to practice form at home now, and see if I can come back stronger. Hat's off to you! Mark


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## Mike Lawless

Hope you feel better soon. We all want to enjoy the holidays and not be sick.

Merry Christmas to everyone!


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## lunger 66

Have a good Christmas, to you too!


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## FLlongshot

I'm testing skinny shafts as I find it easier to align them on target. I had some left-rights that I was having trouble controlling with 23's. I was interested to see the difference anyway so I spent a few days testing and tuning and having settled on a good crawl and hold went out back and shot my first round for score on the world face. New pb 275, 7x.


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## lunger 66

Outstanding!!!!!


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## FLlongshot

Thanks lunger!


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## moog5050

First time shooting a score since before hunting season I think. Maybe one score last month. Anyways shot my new to me longbow. 54lbs at my DL and 64”. 267. Not bad. My grouping was great but a tad high throughout. Just getting accustomed to healing it a bit more than a recurve but considering it’s my first longbow, I am really enjoying it!


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## tab2ib

I live in Northern Illinois and was able to shoot outside yesterday and the day before. 
Just for giggles I shot my #40 bow Wednesday and the #55 bow yesterday.
I was pretty consistent - 200 both days.


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## Longbowfanatic

I shot a personal best the other day with my heavy aluminum setup. 277 with 16Xs. It feels good to see improvement.


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## Mike Lawless

Good shootin' Longbow!

Which bring up a question for all. I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now, so to preface the question, it has been said that to score well in practice is one thing. To score well on a shooting line when under some pressure is another thing altogether. I know I score better when practicing alone at at home, or even at the range than I do at league nights. And this leads to the question....

When you self score in practice, do you begin to score at a set point in time such as after two practice ends, regardless of how that first "official scoring" end turns out? 

Or do you begin scoring when you shoot a particularly good end? For myself, this is one of the reasons I don't score as well at league nights. For some reason, my focus goes away on the first official scoring end, resulting in a crappy start.


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## moog5050

Mike Lawless said:


> Good shootin' Longbow!
> 
> Which bring up a question for all. I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now, so to preface the question, it has been said that to score well in practice is one thing. To score well on a shooting line when under some pressure is another thing altogether. I know I score better when practicing alone at at home, or even at the range than I do at league nights. And this leads to the question....
> 
> When you self score in practice, do you begin to score at a set point in time such as after two practice ends, regardless of how that first "official scoring" end turns out?
> 
> Or do you begin scoring when you shoot a particularly good end? For myself, this is one of the reasons I don't score as well at league nights. For some reason, my focus goes away on the first official scoring end, resulting in a crappy start.


I practice to hunt. So I start scoring from first arrow.


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## marcelxl

I shot my first scored 300 for ages on Sunday, was shooting my Mins/Uukhas as thats my "target" bow for WA3D "instinctive" 
Quite pleased I held it for the duration for a respectable 272. I'll take that off a "trad bow"!


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## davidflorida

Good luck flalongshot at Lancaster this weekend 


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## emrah

I shot a 237 this morning with my 40# 59’ Kodiak, quiver on, full hunting setup. It’s my best so far. I’ve shot a few times before and I was 207 and 218.

Emrah 


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## Corene1

Mike Lawless said:


> Good shootin' Longbow!
> 
> Which bring up a question for all. I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now, so to preface the question, it has been said that to score well in practice is one thing. To score well on a shooting line when under some pressure is another thing altogether. I know I score better when practicing alone at at home, or even at the range than I do at league nights. And this leads to the question....
> 
> When you self score in practice, do you begin to score at a set point in time such as after two practice ends, regardless of how that first "official scoring" end turns out?
> 
> Or do you begin scoring when you shoot a particularly good end? For myself, this is one of the reasons I don't score as well at league nights. For some reason, my focus goes away on the first official scoring end, resulting in a crappy start.


When I practice or shoot any type of match I have a warm up that I do. I am not hunting and the targets don't run away so I don't start scoring until I am shooting smoothly and my timing is set. Even then the first few ends can be tough. I find my self trying just a little too hard when the scorecard comes out and my timing changes giving me some less than good shots. If I can keep the first shots the same as my practice shots all is good. Problem is when I am practicing score doesn't count and I more relaxed during the shot sequence. Just for fun when you are shooting, time your practice and warmup shots and compare them to the time on your scored shots. I found myself holding a bit longer on scored shots and starting to go static before the release.


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## Mike Lawless

Corene1 said:


> Just for fun when you are shooting, time your practice and warmup shots and compare them to the time on your scored shots. I found myself holding a bit longer on scored shots and starting to go static before the release.


It's funny you mentioned that Corene!
Over the last couple weeks, I've been trying to figure out what was going on. It seems, like many others have pointed out but I wasn't able to realize it, I was too focused on score and as a result, a lot of shots ended up being forced. It reminded me of Drag Racing Great, Jeg Coughlin. He once said to forget about winning the event or season championship. Focus on the round you are in. Win that round, and all else will take care of itself."

So last thursday at league night, I put my focus first on my breath sequence, which led to my grip and bowarm....and the rest of the sequence in turn. The good shots were far more frequent and came with a relative ease. Yes, I still had some muffed shots, but even those weren't horrible. I ended up with 256. Not my best, but well above what I've been averaging at league. I did let some of the outside distractions in on a couple shots, and those did not go where I wanted 'em to! On timing, I had slowed everything down and used most of the shot clock. Before I had been done in less than a minute.

Also, shots were hitting gold from the first practice shot. Lately, I've had to fight a bit to bring 'em around before the scoring ends started.

The good thing is that not only was I happier with the result, I got quite a few "atta-boys" and pats on the back from some of the compound guys who can't figure out how this can be done without a sight!

Thanks Corene, I always appreciate your input.


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## erotomaniac1928

Reviving this because it’s always cool to see everyone else’s scores

Shot a 232 last night with a 17” Hoyt Satori with my new 30# Uukha Evo2 limbs. Not much below my average even though I was using a significantly shorter bow. I would attribute this to the new limbs, but would need a larger sample size to really know for sure. 


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## CFGuy

This was probably mentioned previously, but I don't want to wade through 118 pages:

What are considered "good score" benchmarks? I recall something about 220 being a "intermediate" score, with 240 being "good", 260 being "great", and above that starting to become larger-scale competitive.


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## DwayneR

CFGuy said:


> This was probably mentioned previously, but I don't want to wade through 118 pages:
> 
> What are considered "good score" benchmarks? I recall something about 220 being a "intermediate" score, with 240 being "good", 260 being "great", and above that starting to become larger-scale competitive.


Based on 5 point 300 perfect score, barebow.

Want guarantee first or second place? score 280 or above.
270's extremely good. You may get a first or second place depending upon what happens.
260's Very good. This is where most folks should be shooting.
250's Good, takes practice, but good.
240's Most anyone with a few weeks practice will hit 240.
Below 240. . .the scores which new people are coming into the sport shoot. 

A 240 means that on average you will hit the 4 ring.


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## Bisch

“Most anyone with a few weeks practice will hit 240.”

I don’t think so!!!!!! That’s an avg of 20/end, and most folks will take quite a while to get to that point. A whole lot of folks never get to that point!!!!!

The rest of your post I agree with!!!!

Bisch 


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## Mike Lawless

Bisch said:


> “Most anyone with a few weeks practice will hit 240.”
> 
> I don’t think so!!!!!! That’s an avg of 20/end, and most folks will take quite a while to get to that point. A whole lot of folks never get to that point!!!!!
> 
> The rest of your post I agree with!!!!
> 
> Bisch
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah, I'm with ya there Bisch. That statement might be true for someone with good athletic ability and good coaching. As an old coot with limited flexibility and "YouTube" as my coach, it took me about a year and tons of trial and error to hit 240 in practice. Then on the shooting line at league night, it was more like 220. However, this is on a ten ring "Vegas" target. That's pretty much all anyone shoots out here. On a five ring, that MIGHT translate a few points higher.

These days, I'm hitting 260 to 270 with regularity and shot 274 last week in league. So the shootin', she's a comin' along! Slow but sure

Glad to see this thread come back!


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## FLlongshot

This threads up again...must be getting close to indoor season!
FYI, Lancaster 2020 registration opened either last night or this morning and already 41 barebow archers registered! Can't wait for January.


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## FLlongshot

Food for thought...280 on the blue spot would have got you 3rd in Mens Traditional and 5th in Mens Barebow at the 2019 NFAA Nationals. 240 is a very good start and can be done pretty quickly with a dedicated target rig IF the archer is already reasonably skilled. From beginner level, it'll take some time. It took me 2 years to go from an honest 240 average to 250 although that was with a longbow/with wooden arrows. Points come slow the higher you get. When I first started with recurve I thought "Man, if only I could break 270 once..." now I'm bent out of shape if I shoot below 270 LOL!


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## Stephen Morley

I never got very serious about Indoors although when I did put the time in I got decent scores/results (World Indoors etc). Because I'm struggling to walk any distance I decided to get a bit more serious about Indoors, waiting on a set of 32# EX1's everything I have is too heavy for me now (42# last year, 36# right now). At least I can still shoot and should count my blessings for that.


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## grantmac

Vegas face is much harder, 15 points for a beginner. 5-10 at the highest level.

240 after 2 months without coaching is totally achievable.

"Good" starts around 260.


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## CFGuy

Stephen: Wise thing to do (count blessings). Hope your health improves!

I should have clarified: what's reasonable for various classes, i.e. Barebow vs Olympic vs "Instinctive" (or perhaps longbow with wood arrows)? The numbers I mentioned were, I think, from an old Viper post.


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## Mike Lawless

CFGuy said:


> Stephen: Wise thing to do (count blessings). Hope your health improves!
> 
> I should have clarified: what's reasonable for various classes, i.e. Barebow vs Olympic vs "Instinctive" (or perhaps longbow with wood arrows)? The numbers I mentioned were, I think, from an old Viper post.


One way is to look through the results of last year's Vegas and Lancaster events. That'll let you see how you stack up against the field. The top three at Vegas averaged low 270s in Barebow Recurve


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## grantmac

I know for me personally my competition scores are 10-15 points lower than practice. So looking at the scores from big shoots can make what you are doing in your backyard seem much better than it is


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## 3finger

My competitive scores are not as high as my league night or competitive scores same as grantmac. I reasoned that the more competitive events I shot in would help solve that problem. To a small extent it has.
Seems like there is always something less than ideal at a competitive event that I have not prepared for. Crowded shooting lines, poor lighting, having to shoot next to the wall or around support pillars, obnoxious target group member, the know it all, the bow slammer, etc. My buddies follow the "when in doubt it's out" protocol for my close arrows. The guys were just trying to help out when I was shooting FITA by clicking plastic spoons on the table when I was at full draw. Yes the 300 round ebb and flow. Oh almost forgot the free coffee. Nice to enjoy with a group of friends but destroys my ability to relax.


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## centershot

Too much good info here to get buried.


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## centershot

Shot my first round in over 2 years last night due to shoulder issues. 243 with a lightweight 24# recurve. Not very forgiving of any release or draw length issues but still fun. Ended fatigued but not sore! Now all I need to do is find about 1/2 point per arrow I will be back to my old averages.


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## 123 4/8 P&Y

I need to try this. Right now I'm set up for turkeys with a 13yd fixed crawl. But after I tag out (or time out) I will move back to 20yds. Over the winter I would measure my skill by shooting rounds like I was in the Lancaster barebow finals. I started the year averaging in the high 80's. By the end of my winter practice I was over 100 quite often. I think my best was a 109.


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## centershot

Give it a try, lots of fun and humbling at times. There is a ton of information in this thread from some of the best archers in the world. Take a look through when you get some time.


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## centershot

259 11X - Got my bow sorted out a little better and had a decent round. One 2 and a handfull of 3's kept me humble. Still fun and a great way to see where my shooting is at. My bow is a Samick Discovery 17" Riser with a set of 20# medium cheapo ILF limbs (28# @ my draw length) No stabilizer, shooting GT Ultralight 700's. Really enjoying that new bow, probably put 200 arrows through it last night. Fun stuff.


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## FLlongshot

Glad you brought this back up center. Our season was cut short by Covid19, I was really looking forward to going to Louisville for my first time at the USA finals and NFAA Nat's. Very sad..working on outdoor target now but looking forward to indoor season in the fall.


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## centershot

Yes this Covid thing is really a pain. We are missing out on a lot of good shoots. Weather was rainy and nasty last night so we opted for indoors. A great chance to shoot a round and see where my shooting is at. I like to mix these rounds in all year long as a check and to keep myself honest. That paper target can be a brutal reality check at times.


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## dblhauler

After plowing thru this thread, I thought I would try the NFAA 300. I have been shooting barebow for only the last 15 months, so I am somewhat of a rookie. I am shooting a Galaxy Sage Elite recurve at 35 lbs. using Goldtip Warrior 600 spine arrows w/ 125 field tips. So I received my targets a few days ago and this morning I thought it would be best to start at 10 yards to see where I was, score wise. I ended up shooting a score of 258 6x's. I do not know if this is a reasonable score and would like your opinion.

How long would you recommend shooting at 10 yards before moving up in distance, and should I move up to 15 yards or 20 yards as the next step? What would be an average score at each yardage, prior to moving up in distance. I did find it fun to shoot this way, as it seemed to make me concentrate more on my form and shot sequence in order to shoot a better score. Also would it be better to continue practicing using the 40cm NFAA blue and white targets?

Thanks in advance for any input you are able to provide.


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## FLlongshot

Hard to gauge a reasonable score at 10 yds. I'd shoot at 20 if you can keep them all in the scoring rings or at least on the paper.


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## centershot

dbhauler it sounds like you have a handle on what is going on. If you think your 258 is representative of your shooting then I think you are ready to move back to 15 yards and give it another go. Shoot a few rounds there until you are in the 260's regularly then move on back to 20 yards. 5 yards doesn't sound like much but you will be surprised at how much more difficult it gets.


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## dblhauler

Thanks for the info Centershot. I shot another 10 yard target this morning and ended up with 262 12x's. I think I will shoot a couple of more 10 yard targets, to get a good average them move back to 15 yards. I am shooting outdoors and wonder if that makes much of a difference ??


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## rsarns

Blast from the past. Nice to see this thread back up and running. With outdoor field and target pretty much not happening I’ve put away the long distance bows for the year and have been concentrating on ASA shoots here in Texas. 30 yard max I thought would be boring but it’s fun to shoot Foam animals again. 

The last few days I have been tuning up my indoor rig, might as well. Lol. Last couple years I have been shooting primarily the FITA 40 CM (Vegas) Target. Scoring is lower of course but I think the challenge is rewarding.


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## centershot

dblhauler said:


> Thanks for the info Centershot. I shot another 10 yard target this morning and ended up with 262 12x's. I think I will shoot a couple of more 10 yard targets, to get a good average them move back to 15 yards. I am shooting outdoors and wonder if that makes much of a difference ??


I don't think it will make much difference in your score being indoors or outdoors as long as the weather is decent. Sometimes lighting and distractions from other archers are hard to get used to indoors. This round is often shot indoors because it is a typical distance and round shot for winter leagues. (When the weather is too nasty to shoot outside).


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## grantmac

Being outdoors by yourself is likely easier than indoors on a crowded alternating line with the timer going. Learning to shoot at the clock's pace and switch it off/on between ends is a big adjustment for backyard shooters.


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## dblhauler

I have finally finished shooting 4 scoring rounds at 10 yards with the following results: 258 6Xs; 262 12Xs; 262 9Xs and 250 7Xs. I don't know what to heck happened with the last round. I have decided to move up to the 15 yard line and as centershot said the extra 5 yards makes a big difference. My 1st round at 15 yards produced a considerably lower score of 217 0Xs, but some of my practice rounds seem to be a little better. I must say that I am enjoying this NAFF 300 shooting as it does seem to keep me more in tuned with my form in an effort to try and improve my scores. Will keep on trying to improve.


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## Draven Olary

Spring/summer is here, out shooting 3D and Field in the woods and after an hour of 3D I decided to shoot a 300 NFAA round - I didn't do it for a long time and never with my DH Ventura
#57 OTF and my recently acquired BEV 540gr arrows, shooting 3 under, off the shelf and split-vision as aiming method.
86 [22 20 23 21] - 89 [23 21 23 22] - 91 [22 22 24 23] for a total of 266/300.

Shooting outdoor has its challenges with the black flies, mosquitos and uneven terrain, but it was a good exercise. 2-3s there I want them back. Maybe I will start to do it more often.


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## lunger 66

Checking back in after a two yr break from shooting, lol!
Shot a 241 about 3 weeks ago, then didn't worry about it for awhile because I was working on bow arm, shoulder position, release, and string hand. Yesterday managed a 269 9x, and been working hard on this every day for awhile now again.
Super exited about dbhauler, and his efforts! Keep it up! Mark


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## centershot

Time to root this old thread up again. Got my target rig setup and sorted out. Shot a 300 round on Monday. Shot 267 7X which is decent for me considering I have not shot a NFAA 300 round in a long time. My bow is a Gillo G2, no weights with 26# Hoyt Gold Medalist limbs. I shoot off a rest with a plunger. No stabilizer and 3 under touching the nock (NFAA Trad Legal). With full length 2013's and 100gr points I hold on the 4 ring just below the dot and hit the middle when I do everthing right! I may add a stabilizer on my next round and see if that helps tighten things up a little.


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## dougmax

Two years ago I made the switch from compound to traditional and found this thread on Centershots journey. Seemed like a great way to keep track of my progress in traditional shooting. I shoot daily and usually shoot at least one scored 300 round a week. I bought a bigger target because when I started my 18” Rhinoblock occasionally wasn’t big enough to stop my arrows from hitting my shed. As time has passed I started to get the hang of it and starting with a 28# 62” recurve as per Viper’s advice definitely helped. Now the center module of my target is the only space I hit and it has paid the price. I am shooting a 40# 58” Black Widow (not exactly a target bow) and my average is around 240 per round. Highest score was a 261. Funny thing I found back in June I raised the target off the ground to about 2 feet and it changed everything. Scores went in the toilet. Took weeks for my mind to adjust.








Anyway, great thread…thanks for bringing it back. Great way to keep track of your progress.


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## centershot

Bump, too much good info to get burried.


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## c_m_shooter

I have been shooting the TFAA indoor season this year. There is a gremlin in my head though that I can't get quiet. I shoot 265 to 270 at home, and 245 or so at the weekly tournaments. I am leading longbow division, but still not where I want to be. My goal is to shoot one of my normal home scores when at state and nationals.


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## Bisch

c_m_shooter said:


> I have been shooting the TFAA indoor season this year. There is a gremlin in my head though that I can't get quiet. I shoot 265 to 270 at home, and 245 or so at the weekly tournaments. I am leading longbow division, but still not where I want to be. My goal is to shoot one of my normal home scores when at state and nationals.


Does TFAA = Texas Field Archery Assn?

If so, where are you located?

Bisch


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## c_m_shooter

Bisch said:


> Does TFAA = Texas Field Archery Assn?
> 
> If so, where are you located?
> 
> Bisch
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Northwest of Fort worth. We've met.


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## CamoQuest

I read through the first few pages of this thread before realizing how old it was, but lots of good ideas here. Daniel and I shot a Sywat round a few weeks ago in Bryan. Neither of us had practiced beforehand, but it was a good chance to get out of the wind, shoot, and spend some time together away from the kiddo. We both shot our Bob Lee recurves, Daniel shot woods, I stuck with carbons.

I came away with a 211, which I know isn’t anything noteworthy, but I was happy with it, all things considered. It give me a nice starting point to compare to, for later in the year. We have plans to shot more TBoT this year, with a few IBO shoots thrown in.


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## MikeAnz

After reading through this thread, I’m curious if anyone has heard or participated in a virtual archery competition? I think it. would be fun,I’ve done virtual half-marathons and it’s fun and a great way to share in a community of like minde individuals. Just an idea.


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## dougmax

MikeAnz said:


> After reading through this thread, I’m curious if anyone has heard or participated in a virtual archery competition? I think it. would be fun,I’ve done virtual half-marathons and it’s fun and a great way to share in a community of like minde individuals. Just an idea.


I never have but there’s a husband and wife @ our club that do. The one they’re in is based out of the UK and it involves shoot 60 arrows @ 20 yards at a 40cm target face from both a longbow and a recurve (separate classes I think) once a month from November- March.
I’ve seen them down on the outdoor range shooting their rounds in the snow and sun freezing temps. They love it and the husband says there are hundreds of people in the league. Just need someone with organizational skills to put it together.


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## olliedog

I can't shoot 20 yds at my house, but I can shoot 16yds. 199 on my first scored round using a 3 spot Vegas style face. 218 last night. Man, 0's kill you! I'm a pretty new recurve shooter but I thought I'd do better than that 

On the topic of an online tournament, I'd be interested. I also am the website guy for our local club so maybe I can host something from that site/account. I think the club has been waiting for me to take some initiative so, arrow is on my side of the fence I guess...

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## jtrops

olliedog said:


> On the topic of an online tournament, I'd be interested. I also am the website guy for our local club so maybe I can host something from that site/account. I think the club has been waiting for me to take some initiative so, arrow is on my side of the fence I guess...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


How would an online tournament work? How would scores be validated? I'd be interested in playing.


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## c_m_shooter

jtrops said:


> How would an online tournament work? How would scores be validated? I'd be interested in playing.


Start with clean target face and take picture of finished target along with score. Range would have to be on faith.


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## jtrops

I'd certainly be up for it. Maybe it's time for a new thread?


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## MikeAnz

I’m game and would like to get involved as well…what’s the best way we can put something together? I have some website development skills to share.


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## olliedog

jtrops said:


> How would an online tournament work? How would scores be validated? I'd be interested in playing.





c_m_shooter said:


> Start with clean target face and take picture of finished target along with score. Range would have to be on faith.



I like that idea c_m had. A submission would include a pic of the finished target (for record) and your tally of score (a breakdown of each arrow/end would be nice, but not strictly necessary) including X's.



jtrops said:


> I'd certainly be up for it. Maybe it's time for a new thread?


I think we may have critical mass to do that yeah!



MikeAnz said:


> I’m game and would like to get involved as well…what’s the best way we can put something together? I have some website development skills to share.



awesome! and thanks. I'm in. New thread needed?


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## baeloth

I'd be down with the virtual tourny as well. I haven't read all 3000 posts though. I'll go back and skim through the history.


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