# Best high quality hybridbow?



## Ernie80 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi

I am searching for a high quality hybrid(long)bow.
What are the best and fastest bows you know? What do you recommend me?

Kind regards
Ernie


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

Earnie, the best hybrid is a recurve. 

I hate hybrid longbows. Either shoot a straight-limb longbow with it's mediocre cast, or choose the better option - a modern recurve. The hybrid leaves me cold. Not a longbow and not a recurve. I'll get killed for these comments but I'm willing to die if it saves one member from using a hybrid. LOL


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Stone Bridge said:


> Earnie, the best hybrid is a recurve.
> 
> I hate hybrid longbows. Either shoot a straight-limb longbow with it's mediocre cast, or choose the better option - a modern recurve. The hybrid leaves me cold. Not a longbow and not a recurve. I'll get killed for these comments but I'm willing to die if it saves one member from using a hybrid. LOL


he didnt ask about recurves, he asked about hybrid longbows.....

too the OP, look into kegan longbows, he makes some hard hitting longbows for an affordable price, i shot one 2 months ago and was exteremly impressed


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

No sense of humor. What a place.


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

Stone Bridge said:


> Earnie, the best hybrid is a recurve.
> 
> I hate hybrid longbows. Either shoot a straight-limb longbow with it's mediocre cast, or choose the better option - a modern recurve. The hybrid leaves me cold. Not a longbow and not a recurve. I'll get killed for these comments but I'm willing to die if it saves one member from using a hybrid. LOL


Haha! I've been just engaging in a discussion arguing the opposite over on another forum...

Most modern recurves only advantage over a modern r/d longbow is it's ability to have it's limbs twist if handled improperly. I say that a little tongue in cheek- but if speed is what you are after and take a look at real data, the performance difference between the hybrid longbow and an ordinary, run of the mill, recurve, is more dictated by what the bowyer does, not the shape of the limb tips.

The only true high performance recurve that I'm currently aware of is made by Borders. 

As for high performance r/d longbows, judging by published data, Dryad and A&H archery come to mind (if you have deep pockets, anyway)

Compare these two-
hybrid longbow- http://www.archeryreports.com/index...em/ah-archery-acs-cx-copy.html?category_id=77
Modern ILF recurve- http://www.archeryreports.com/index...r-carbon-extreme-bf-limbs.html?category_id=88

I know, I know, different tools for different jobs, but the OP was just asking about speed.

BM


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

To add- the OP is also asking for quality bows.

Now, there are many "lower" quality, $100, and sometimes lower, recurve options. Not that they are bad, but they are not without occasional failures. But I would like to ask the opposite, does anyone know of any "poor" quality bows? Especially makers of 1pc wooden bows? It is hard to find very many hybrids in the sub $300 price range...

BM


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Here's a starting point for you. 

Larry Hatfield, longtime bow designer for Martin, has recently stated that his design on the 66" Viper/(aka Venom) longbow is his favorite, and one of the best shooters of this design he has encountered. He set several flight records with this bow. He also wrote that he had narrowed down his Martin bow collection to (if I remember correctly) about three of the Viper/Venoms and one Hatfield Takedown recurve. 

Recently out of production, but used will be out there.

For starters. Hope this gets some juice flowing.

Good luck.


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

The only performance recurve is a Border? Aronnax, you're killing me.


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## Ernie80 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi

I forgot to mention that i have a short drawlength of 26,5" and I am searching for a short hybrid <58".

Here in Germany we have some real good hybrids in the lower price range, but only a few in the high quality class.
I thought of a centaur triple elite 56", but I am interested on other options.

Kind regards
Ernie

PS: Please no more talking about recurves. I am not searching for a recurve!


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Stone Bridge said:


> Not a longbow and not a recurve.


That's right and better than both :wink:

Seeing that you're from Germany I believe BearPaw is a German company and makes some nice hybrids. Anyone care to verify?


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

Stone Bridge said:


> The only performance recurve is a Border? Aronnax, you're killing me.


show me data

BM


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## deadeye (Aug 22, 2002)

The wife and I like A&H


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

Aronnax said:


> show me data
> 
> Show me an Olympic medal - even bronze - won with a Border recurve. Then you can strut.


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

kegan said:


> That's right and better than both :wink:
> 
> Seeing that you're from Germany I believe BearPaw is a German company and makes some nice hybrids. Anyone care to verify?


I have a Kustom King Black Forest LB (sorry Kegan ) which is made by BearPaw (Bodnik) for Kustom King, and I like it but I don't have much of a frame of reference to compare it to.

I think it's similar to their Bearpaw Dakota longbow in design, just slightly fancier materials. Their Slick Stick is highly reviewed.

I probably would have liked the handle on the slick stick better, but I went the safe route and went for the longer length (60" vs 64") because of my long draw. I've since heard mention that the slick stick draws pretty far too though... so I dunno...

BM


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

Stone Bridge said:


> Aronnax said:
> 
> 
> > show me data
> ...


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

Aronnax said:


> Stone Bridge said:
> 
> 
> > Irrelevant. The OP asked about speed. Not Olympic medals.
> ...


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

Stone Bridge said:


> Aronnax said:
> 
> 
> > Speed is irrelevant while missing with your hybrid or Border. Only hits count. But have it your way. It is a hybrid thread with lowbred, humorless throngs.
> ...


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Aronnax said:


> Stone Bridge said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. Just wow.
> ...


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

Aronnax, I think he's pulling your leg.


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

reddogge said:


> Aronnax, I think he's pulling your leg.


dog, he doesn't get it. Even Kegan, the maker of hybrids, knows I'm goofing on him. He's not bent out of shape because he's cool. (for a kid)


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Stone Bridge said:


> Aronnax said:
> 
> 
> > Speed is irrelevant while missing with your hybrid or Border. Only hits count. But have it your way. It is a hybrid thread with lowbred, humorless throngs.
> ...


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

kegan said:


> Stone Bridge said:
> 
> 
> > Aww, Stone, don't get mad because longbow shooters are more sophisticated and charming than recurve shooters. We still accept you for who you are
> ...


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## Ernie80 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi

Unfortunately 95% here is offtopic.
So back to the hybrids and once again please no more recurves here. Thank you!

Kind regards
Ernie


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

Stone Bridge said:


> dog, he doesn't get it. Even Kegan, the maker of hybrids, knows I'm goofing on him. He's not bent out of shape because he's cool. (for a kid)


Sorry, the humor didn't come across well.

BM


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

BM, don't sweat it. I could tell you didn't get it. I'm not into emoticons and such. It's hard to tell sometimes when we're playing. As for hybrids, for real, I once had a 21st Century bow in 66" that was a very nice bow.

For a hybrid.


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## Castmaster (May 2, 2013)

I've been shooting my 21st century edge for 4 years now. It is definitely my go to bow. But holy cow, when I shot that Omega Imperial several months ago... I don't know how you could go wrong with one of those!


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

How much time have you got? I ask because the best hybrid longbow I've ever had was a McCullough Griffin. Unfortunately his wait time is measured in years, around three last I heard. They do appear in the classifieds once in a while. I had a 64" bow but I think they are more common in a 60" length.

The Big Jim Buffalo bow is another great one (http://www.bigjimsbowcompany.com/custom_bows.php). Jim's craftsmanship is second to none, absolutely beautiful bows that shoot great.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

IMHO?...there isn't...."A BEST"...RD Hybrid Longbow out there...but there is a veritable plethora of RD Hybrid Longbows offerings out there that are beyond Excellence...in every measure...which include but are not limited too....and in no particular order...

Centaur (Triple Carbon/Dark Matter)
Fox Triple Crown
Toelke Whip
Griffins & Shrews (if you can find one on the latter)
Big Jim (Thunder Child Or Buffalo)
Borders (Harrier Royale)
Black Widow

and last but most certainly not least?...

Bushmen Custom Longbows (American Native/Sneaky Stick 2pc/American Warrior) and here's a pic of me with my beloved American Native in his Testimonials section...










Now all of those are creme de la creme so to speak and there's really no need to go that exotic to experience first class performance from a modern RD Hybrid Longbow in which case the following are also great choices....

Bodnik Quick Stick & Slick Stick...Martin Savannah (represents a great value)...as do Omega Bows.

all I got at the moment though I'm certain I forgot a few...happy shopping and L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Omega...

Maybe cajole him into doing a phenolic/wood/phenolic laminate for the riser section...


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

From personal experience ... A with that draw length I'd be thinking a Toelke Whip might fit the Bill as Dan will make them as short as 58" from memory. 

They are exceptionally well mannered , not the fastest bows around but they do everything so well it doesn't matter IMHO. Plus build time is very very quick( my last was three weeks) , build quality is stellar as is customer service.

Ditto the above for Allen Boice' Liberty Longbows ... His Chief and Edge models are fantastic.

There are heaps of great bows being made today . If you can't get to a shoot to try a few , then there'll be plenty of reviews about and some bowyers will send you a test bow .

As a differing option what about a TradTech Onyx or similar variation with Longbow Limbs ? They are sweet .....


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## slowbowjoe (Jun 7, 2014)

I'm pretty much with Jinkster on this one. Hybrid shooter here myself. Addressing your question and preferences: "Javaman" Elkheart or Falcon (made by Greg Coffey, who was building the Shrew line for some years), Big Jim Thunderchild, CariBow Wolverine, Leon Stewart Lil Slammer, or Centaur are all superb bows which fit your description. (The Toelke Whip is also right up there, but it isn't a hybrid.)

I am extremely satisfied with my Falcon (58", 28" draw). I was fortunate to find one which Greg had in stock in my specs, so no wait. Didn't even intend to buy it, I arranged a "try out", and simply couldn't send it back, I was so impressed. If I are to go for another bow (not likely for some time, at least) - it would be one of Greg's Elkheart's. Same design, but a shorter riser, hence a slightly shorter bow. You could shoot a 56" with length to spare, I'd bet a 54" would perform just fine with your draw. By the way, there's one of those up for sale on the TradGang classifieds.


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

I shot a Shrew several years ago. I'm not sure of the length but it was very short. Even at my 27" draw length the thing was stacky and slow. Not only slow and crappy to draw, but it was very tough to group with. Short longbows of such light weight are worthless unless you only hunt inside 15 yards. Even then a good 60" recurve beats the dog out of any Shrew or similar model for speed and grouping. 

I rather like longbows or hybrids 66" or longer to shoot. They do seem to be fairly steady at close range inside 30 yards. But the really short Shrew-like models are very touchy and feel awful to draw. I can't imaging a big guy with a long draw liking that kind of thing. Especially if he (or she) came from shooting longer recurves or longbows.


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## BUGSLINGER719 (Aug 11, 2010)

Javaman Elkhart


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

slowbowjoe said:


> I'm pretty much with Jinkster on this one. Hybrid shooter here myself. Addressing your question and preferences: "Javaman" Elkheart or Falcon (made by Greg Coffey, who was building the Shrew line for some years), Big Jim Thunderchild, CariBow Wolverine, Leon Stewart Lil Slammer, or Centaur are all superb bows which fit your description. (The Toelke Whip is also right up there, but it isn't a hybrid.)
> 
> I am extremely satisfied with my Falcon (58", 28" draw). I was fortunate to find one which Greg had in stock in my specs, so no wait. Didn't even intend to buy it, I arranged a "try out", and simply couldn't send it back, I was so impressed. If I are to go for another bow (not likely for some time, at least) - it would be one of Greg's Elkheart's. Same design, but a shorter riser, hence a slightly shorter bow. You could shoot a 56" with length to spare, I'd bet a 54" would perform just fine with your draw. By the way, there's one of those up for sale on the TradGang classifieds.





Stone Bridge said:


> I shot a Shrew several years ago. I'm not sure of the length but it was very short. Even at my 27" draw length the thing was stacky and slow. Not only slow and crappy to draw, but it was very tough to group with. Short longbows of such light weight are worthless unless you only hunt inside 15 yards. Even then a good 60" recurve beats the dog out of any Shrew or similar model for speed and grouping.
> 
> I rather like longbows or hybrids 66" or longer to shoot. They do seem to be fairly steady at close range inside 30 yards. But the really short Shrew-like models are very touchy and feel awful to draw. I can't imaging a big guy with a long draw liking that kind of thing. Especially if he (or she) came from shooting longer recurves or longbows.


To me?....In the end....in their most rudimentary description?...they are all simply..."Wood Springs w/ Long Strings"...but as Stone Bridge points out come with a variety of characteristics pending design....from there?...pending application, shooting style and intent?...the bow that is one mans perfection may be another archers poison....for instance?...

My 40 year old Herters Perfection Magnum recurve is a scant 58 1/2"s....(by AMO standards which weren't applied to this bow back then)...and it's limbs have more curve in them than Kim Kardashian and even at a scant 44#s defies anyone to string it with a cup and saddle type stringer...and pretty much demands stringing with a dual cup stringer and?...it stacks like a you just hit a wall on a compound...and while I can't shoot this bow worth a flip with conventional form?...it is hands down the best snap shooting rig I've ever shot...and there is no thought involved as far as "release" goes....the string just hits a point where it refuses to go back any further and just pops off my string hand fingers and ideally for me?...this happens right when my index finger hits corner of mouth...like this bow was custom built for me to in fact accommodate my wicked snap-shooting ways! LOL!..and for bonus points?...seems like pound for pound?...even with a B50 string it's one of (if not "the") fastest bows I've ever owned.

Where others?...would hate it and hang it on the wall as art or use it to fuel their next pig roast! LOL!....and I know that....and guess what?...it's perfectly fine with me because...

Then there's the other side of that spectrum....the one where I've had some extremely sweet drawing and soft on the back end target rigs...where these bows are completely and utterly reliant upon pristine and absolute consistent form as there is no back end to speak of or feel for...and your form must create that consistency because their draw feel is much like the ever-ready bunny...it just keeps going and going and going....LOL!

And there's times I love shooting those as well...but it's not my main bag.

And here's yet another varying characteristic I'm left pondering and selling a really nice Black Widow PSAII recurve over...and see if you can wrap your heads around this one....

*"A Story Of Two Bows & String Angle"*

My Old Bob Lee TD Hunter: was a 62" Bow with a 21" resin impregnated ash riser and short snappy limbs.

My Black Widow PSAII: is a 62" bow with a 16" riser and long smooth drawing limbs.

Which I now believe exhibits a significant difference between these two 62" TD bows....by way of..."String Angle" as follows...

As I recall?...I never had an issue with the 62" Bob Lee's string angle...as it seemed markedly more acute and effectively cleared all my body parts...but with the widows long limber limbs?....the string angle seems quite a bit shallower and does in fact demonstrate some minor (yet distracting in a "I need to be aware of it" sort of way) body clearance issues for me even though they are both 62" AMO bows.

So as i surmise?...even though they are all just a wood spring with a long string?....differing characteristics must jive with differing shooting styles or?...

one archers perfection can in fact be another archers poison. L8R, Bill.


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

How is the Wes Wallace Royal?


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## Castmaster (May 2, 2013)

zonic said:


> How is the Wes Wallace Royal?


I would like to know that myself...I really want to get my hands on a two piece take-down version.


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

I don't hear longbow shooters mention the Royal - but WW's recurves seem to be held in extremely high regard. A review or two would be helpful to read.

I'd like to go back to exclusively shooting wooden arrows and am hoping to find a quiet 1-piece hunting bow that will shoot a wooden arrow as fast as my Omega shoots carbons (if that's possible) at a reasonable price-point.


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## O'Mahony (Mar 15, 2014)

Guten Tag Ernie80,

Falco Bows of Estonia offers a nice line of R/D longbows with a good array of options and a fairly short build lead time. I have a pair of their "Trophy" bow's that I am very pleased with. Their customer service contact (Siim) is patient, friendly and accessible.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

"Falco" is an awesome option as well...here's a falco trophy and a falco force I owned....

The Trophy...




























The Force...




























neither of them RD (just D) but shot as smoothly as any RD.


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## bowhuntrmaniac (Jan 22, 2012)

I am just getting to "know" my new Toelke Whip. It Is a R/D longbow. It shoots hard with little hand shock (62" ) and it is 46#at my 27" DL. Very quiet! Have only been shooting trad. for 3 years. (Shot compounds for 30+ years). GREG


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## bowhuntrmaniac (Jan 22, 2012)

Just getting to "know" my new Toelke Whip, and it IS a R/D longbow 62" 46# at my 27" DL. It is quieter than both my recurves, and has little hand shock. Shoots hard too! GREG


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## bowhuntrmaniac (Jan 22, 2012)

Sorry for double post


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## 4nolz (Aug 17, 2011)

An RD longbow is not a hybrid.Anyone care to post a DEFINITION? This thread has been hijacked.(surprise )


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

Should take a look at Omega Longbows. Never shot any of his r/d's yet, but had his Imperial and liked it a lot. Great guy to work with.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

Hybrid: not a recurve, not a longbow. Best of both. 

I always considered a r/d longbow to be a hybrid when it starts showing a lot of reflex when strung, irregardless of length. But that's only my opinion.


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## 4nolz (Aug 17, 2011)

Less than or equal to 60"? How narrow? Locator grip?


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

If I were looking for such a bow I would be looking at 

Centaur
AHS 
Border Raptor 
Kegan


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Maybe this will help. Narrow down some options. 
1pc,2pc or 3pc bow?
Glass,glass/carbon or carbon limb construction?
Longbow grip or recurve style grip?
High mass or low mass?
Longbow or short longbow?

And do you rate vertical stability a good thing or is it less important too you?


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Str8 Shooter said:


> Hybrid: not a recurve, not a longbow. Best of both.
> 
> I always considered a r/d longbow to be a hybrid when it starts showing a lot of reflex when strung, irregardless of length. But that's only my opinion.


i agree.
Reflex deflex designs are continious D at brace. Hybrids take it further and still hold the reflex/deflex at brace height


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## Ernie80 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hi

1pc,2pc or 3pc bow? >>> 1 or maybe 2 pc. No takedown with screws but a breakdowns is ok.
Glass,glass/carbon or carbon limb construction? >>> carbon is my favorite but if with possible not all carbon, but carbon/bamboo would be great
Longbow grip or recurve style grip? >>> must match the bow, I especially like grips like the Big Jim Thunderchild for example
High mass or low mass? >>> both is interesting
Longbow or short longbow? >>> as short as possible, for a drawlength of 26,5"

I am searching for short hybrids with a traditional look with modern materials, nice finish (eyecandy) and great performance.
And it should be something we don`t have here in Germany, so no Falco or Bodnik.
My favorites are the Centaur Triple Carbon and the Javaman Elkhart at the moment.

At the moment I have a Bavarian Longbow "Chukuni", a Peter Nemeth "Horus", a Bodnik "Phantom", a Arni "Scalpel" and a Martin "Bamboo Viper".

Kind regards
Andi


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Ernie80 said:


> I am searching for short hybrids with a traditional look with modern materials, nice finish (eyecandy) and great performance.
> And it should be something we don`t have here in Germany....


Well then sir?...by the definition you state above?...and too not just meet but exceed those standards?....your request pretty much DEFINES what Bushmen Custom Longbows is all about...producing short, unique, exotics that are very fast...and he uses everything from stone too bone in the construction of his bows per the customers request....here's a statement from his website....

*"When you order a Bushmen Bow you are getting a true "one of a kind" custom bow made to order for YOU! You will never see another like it. View our galleries below to get some ideas of what you would like to incorporate in your own Bushmen Bow"* 

He was featured in Traditional Bowhunter Magazine a year ago and his bows are far beyond anything I've ever seen offered by any other Bowyer....ever....and I've had some [email protected] nice ones....and while I've been through, owned and sold many bows in the past several years?...the only bow that has remained in my stable has been my beloved Bushmen "American Native"....at 64"s it's the longest bow he makes and like all of his RD/Hybrids demonstrates a ton of reflex/deflex in the limbs when strung which BTW?...are all extremely fast....and his 58" bows?...(his favorite length to make cause they excite him over the chrono)...are sick quick...here's some pix and then a recent vid of mine...














































vid shot just a couple days ago....






and here's a link to his website....

http://www.bushmenbows.com/

check them out...and if for some reason his works don't suit your taste?....take a look at...

Big Jims "ThunderChild" model...they are the only other bow I've ever seen that even com close to the works of art and speed from Bushmen.

Happy shopping and L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## Greenjoytj (Aug 10, 2013)

I really like my Martin "Savannah" and Martin "Vision" hybrid longbows.


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## cecil2 (Nov 6, 2008)

I have had A&H a couple Centaur both are very good high performance bows.


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## slowbowjoe (Jun 7, 2014)

Ernie, the Centaur or Elkheart are both superb bows, and I believe, paying attention to the qualities you seek, you would be very pleased to own either one. My Falcon is quite similar to the Elkheart, and I love it. My previous bow was an early Jim Neaves build, while working with Selway… that "Lil Mag" was the original Centaur design. Jim told me in a recent phone conversation that his all glass Centaur is essentially the same bow.
So I have some experience with both bows and bowyers. One thing about carbon in the limbs… while it adds a few feet per second in speed, it also adds a different sound to the shot - which may or may not matter to you. 
Waiting time is also something to consider.


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## MotherLode (Dec 9, 2005)

Lots of good ones out there. My favorite being the Toelke Whips along with the Hummingbirds. Neither you can go wrong with, it is amazing how fast Dan Toelke can get them out compared to the others,


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