# Korean women 1440 practice round 1400 points!



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

*Korean recurve women Fita practice round 1400 points!*

Thought this might be of interest here. I am a big fan of the Korean ladies archery teams and i try to keep up with what they are doing. 

Last week HyunJung Joo ( team gold in Beijing) posted a photo of one of their daily practice shoots outdoor FITA. 

View attachment 1897375


I will translate the archers name to match the scores...
Joo Hyunjung 1384 (3rd)
Yun Ok Hee 1354 (7th)
Ki Bo Bae ( did not score)
Chang HyeJin 1383 (4th)
Lee Tuk-Young 1384 (2nd)
Jung DaSoMi 1379 (6th)
Jeon Sung Eun 1400 (1st)
Choi Mi Sung 1382 (5th)

( In Korea they are known last name first, as they feel the family is more important that the individual, but on english sites you may see the name in the english way with last name at the end. So Chang is the last name, HyeJin is her first name. But you may see it listed as Chang Hyejin, or Hyejin Chang. Same for Park Sung Hyun, or Sung Hyun Park). 


HyeJin Chang and Sung Eun Jeon just shot the Vegas shoot for LH Corp. It is rare to see ANY 1400 practice or tournament. 5 points off Park Sung Hyun's record is some serious shooting. 

Sung Eun Jeon won the Singapore world cup indoor back in December. This is her first year on the Korean National team. I attach a photo of her here....

View attachment 1897385


The Korean ladies are tough competition.


Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Incredible. Thanks for sharing Chris.

Our U.S. Women's record of 1361, shot by Miranda Leek in 2011, would be good enough for 7th.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

I should list that these 8 ladies are the Korean womens recurve national team for this year. And this is a routine practice for them. 


and my favorite, Hyejin Chang was 4th that day with a 1383. 


Chris


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## LittleJP (Nov 4, 2012)

I can only aspire to shoot more like the girls in this case..Jeez!!


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Inspiring. Can't wait to get at those outside distances ... er, I mean, distance


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

wow!!....am not surprised though...


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Good for them. Our archers are cooler and looks good doing it. Lol.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

airwolfipsc said:


> Good for them. Our archers are cooler and looks good doing it. Lol.


that is a matter of opinion. 


Chris


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## SkiSoloII (Dec 11, 2011)

I think I want one of those shirts that say, "I shoot like a (Korean) girl."


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

SkiSoloII said:


> I think I want one of those shirts that say, "I shoot like a (Korean) girl."



lol, me too


Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

View attachment 1898015



Chris


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Just few common sentencies:

- Shooting Indoor in winter is useless to prepare for outdoor 
- Women score less then men outdoor
- 1440 (FITA) round has no use now
:smile:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Vittorio said:


> Just few common sentencies:
> 
> - Shooting Indoor in winter is useless to prepare for outdoor
> - Women score less then men outdoor
> ...


ha, ha, ha.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

Vittorio said:


> Just few common sentencies:
> 
> - Shooting Indoor in winter is useless to prepare for outdoor
> - Women score less then men outdoor
> ...


...i could be wrong but i don't see any reference that they were shooting this indoors..

...i seem to remember some instances when the women DID score better than men..


...some countries still like to use the 1440(FITA) for qualification purposes....after all it still IS a good test to determine an archers ability---specially at the elite level..


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm pretty sure he was joking!


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## x1440 (Jan 5, 2003)

In Korea most of the Pro Teams shoot inside a club house through windows all year long. They have heaters for the winters and A/C or fans for the summer time. Most of their practice ranges also hardly have any wind because they are in between buildings or lined with large trees. That's why the National Teams train over in Jeju Island where the winds are intense.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

they are shooting outdoors. Almost all the ranges have a long enclosed building that faces the outdoor field and target. They shoot inside through the windows or doors to the outdoor field. 


Here is a photo from yesterday with the National team. 

View attachment 1898326


this is what the typical archery training range looks like

View attachment 1898331

View attachment 1898332

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For incentive, if its cold and snowy, they will shoot and low score on the target has to walk outside and pull everyones arrows on the target. 


Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> they will shoot and low score on the target has to walk outside and pull everyones arrows on the target.


You can't give me ideas like that... ha, ha.

My JOAD kids will hate me


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> You can't give me ideas like that... ha, ha.
> 
> My JOAD kids will hate me


 if they shoot a low score, the discipline coach can make them frog hop all the way to the target to get their arrows. (They have several coaches always working with them, recurve coach, compound coach, and one called the discipline coach.) He is the one that punishes. He has a number of punishments for them. They have plenty of incentive to shoot good, lol.


One year the top 5 archers on the National team refused to do a "training exercise" given to them. ( They had to carry a wooden boat up a mountain). The 5 were pulled from the team, suspended for several years ( effectively ending the shooting careers of some), and replaced them with 5 shooters immediately for world shoots. The 5 were afraid they would injure their hands and fingers). 

They do not play around. I have seen interviews where they archers were made to shoot with snakes around their neck or other such stuff to have them face fears and mentally toughen up the shooting. They shoot at baseball games, soccer games etc with the crowd yelling to deal with that distraction. 

One the positive side, they also do a lot of community service, they carry brickets of coal to low income areas ( which are mountainous) and deliver the coal so citizens will have heat and warmth. I post a few photos of that below.

View attachment 1898406

View attachment 1898408

View attachment 1898410

View attachment 1898412


in these photos, the photographer said he got chit all day long from the archers who teased him that he only had to carry his camera up the mountain roads. Lol. These photos curtesy of Hyejin Chang. ( she was not the actual photographer). 

Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

and someone also has to shovel the pathway out to 70 meters. ( these photos are from a few months back). 

View attachment 1898428

View attachment 1898429

View attachment 1898430



photos curtesy of Woong-Ki Baek ( Korean National Coach). 

Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Now that is some serious dedication. How long would that last here in the U.S. ? ha, ha. I think the archers would be up for it just fine, but I can just hear the high-pitched whining from their parents already. LOL. "You can't make my baby do that!!!" ha, ha.

Hell, none of that is any worse than what a lot of us did as kids growing up. You know, back when kids were expected to work around the house and the farm... 

Good stuff Chris. Keep it coming. I like the motivation and the ideas.

John


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

actually you find this kind of dedication from parents and kids that are future olympic gymnasts and future olympic ice skaters. Those kids usually live away from home, practice hours early morning before school, do school, then back to the sport for practice until late night, then homework and bed, for years on end. 

USA Archery hasnt made it to that level yet. 

I agree i think we are soft on the training side of archery. If we want to keep up, we will have to up our game, from adults to kids. 


And i would love to have an archery facility like that in Vegas to shoot in the winter. 

And John, your mail box was full on AT so i sent you a message on your Facebook regarding our other conversation yesterday. 

Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

x1440 said:


> In Korea most of the Pro Teams shoot inside a club house through windows all year long. They have heaters for the winters and A/C or fans for the summer time. Most of their practice ranges also hardly have any wind because they are in between buildings or lined with large trees. That's why the National Teams train over in Jeju Island where the winds are intense.



+1


Chris


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## LittleJP (Nov 4, 2012)

chrstphr said:


> and someone also has to shovel the pathway out to 70 meters. ( these photos are from a few months back).
> 
> View attachment 1898428
> 
> ...


When we try to shoot outdoor distances up in Canada, we end up not being able to find the target butts...


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

kshet26 said:


> I'm pretty sure he was joking!


...i wouldn't count on it..


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## wfocharlie (Feb 16, 2013)

That was really interesting. Thanks for posting. The excellence of the Korean archers just started to make a little more sense to me.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

They approach it as a profession, which is why they are so good at it.

We have very few recurve archers in the U.S. who approach it as a profession. Esp. in the women's ranks. Here, it is only something to do while waiting for college to begin, or until we start our "real" jobs, or until the "baby" comes along... etc.

Not saying there is anything wrong with that at all. I mean, who can blame them - there is only "room" in the U.S. - financially - for a handful of professional recurve archers anyway. 

But it is the fundamental difference between the top archers both abroad AND in the U.S., and the rest.

John


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

john..i think it's more like the difference between the KOREAN archers vs. the rest of the world!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

No, not necessarily. We have, and have had, several US archers who looked at archery as their primary profession and worked hard at their craft. Brady and Jake are like this. Jenny - for nearly 10 years, and Khatuna still, are like this. Butch and Vic always approached this sport as their primary profession, as did Darrell, Rick and a few others like Justin and Jay. But you could probably count on two hands the number of US archers who dedicated a part of their lives to archery first, and everything else second.

Thing is, when US archers have approached the sport AS professionals, they have routinely beaten the Koreans at this game. Butch, Vic, Justin, Brady - all have wins over Korean archers in major events. Jenny had some major upsets over Korean women early in her career. 

I still believe that US archers can be the best in the world when we train as professionals and approach the sport as any other professional athlete would approach their sport. One reason (out of several) I believe our women's program lags so far behind the men's is that there is little incentive for a female archer in the US to approach the sport this way. They get so little attention compared to the men, that sponsors are not nearly as willing to invest in them. There is a viscous cycle at work in our women's program at the moment. Less attention = less sponsor support because of less exposure = less success = less interest by USOC/USArchery = fewer women willing to approach it as a profession... and on, and on.

If we could find a way to break this cycle and put women's archery on equal footing with the men in the US, I have no doubt we would field teams that were able to consistently beat the Korean women in head-to-head matchplay.

It's not really anyone's fault so much as it is a cycle that needs to be broken. I cannot blame sponsors for not being willing to gamble on female archers when they just don't know how serious they are or how long they are expected to stay in the sport. A sponsor needs several years worth of name recognition to be able to build the brand around an individual archer. If one day that archer wakes up and decides to just quit archery, that means the investment in that archer doesn't pay off. And compared to the men, there are far more women who just up and quit the sport for good. 



John


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## robin smith (Jun 6, 2011)

Well said John, I think you are on to something. In my area of the country recurves are thought of as second class anyway for the most part. compound is so mainline that most shops do not even carry bow strings for recurves and forget about even ordering arrows from a local shop or ask for tuning advise. If it was not for landcaster archery it would be imposible to shoot a recurve.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Olympic recurve practitioners is a tiny community in the overall scheme of things. When I bought my first recurve riser 4 years ago, the dealer (at the time one of Hoyt's biggest volume compound dealers) told me it was the third Olympic rig he'd sold in the last 10 years.

Today I was shooting at the range at Archery Country in Austin (a great indoor range, by the way), and a compound shooter (who, by his shooting and his conversation with some other shooters earlier, was obviously a knowledgeable and experienced compound shooter), asked me after I'd been shooting a little bit "what is the clicking noise just before you shoot?". He was a good, experienced compound archer who'd been shooting for quite some time, but hadn't had any exposure to anything Olympic recurve. 

I think it would behoove Hoyt to require amongst its dealer network more Olympic recurve knowledge and exposure in their shops - I've always wondered why they don't ("hey, dealer, if you want to get to the next bigger discount purchasing level, you've gotta have a Level II certified instructor on staff, and you've gotta display some of our recurve model literature/posters, and you must stock a Horizon level Olympic rig and be able to at least minimally discuss the Olympic discipline/technology with customers"). Or, I don't know, maybe they've crunched the numbers and concluded that they make more profit off a compound guy versus a recurve guy, and so why would they want to cannibalize $100 of compound profit to make $80 of recurve profit ... I don't know or have any reason to think that's either the case or not the case - just musing.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

More like, why would they want to sacrifice $400 worth of compound profit to earn $80 worth of recurve profit. LOL.

Talk to a few shop owners that know at least something about recurve, and they will be quick to tell you that although they'd love to move more recurve gear, they just cannot afford to.


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## nifty (Jun 21, 2009)

Great thread Chris thanks for sharing... I'm off to show my teenage son this thread and see if he would like any of these disciplinary measures implemented around the house


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

when i first moved to Vegas, i was the only olympic recurve shooter amongst a large crowd of compound hunters and compound target shooters. Now i am glad to say the Olympic recurves are more than the majority at our range, and the number of kids dwarfs everything. We also have a number of barebow shooters. our shop sells so much recurve stuff that they have decided to focus their business on Olympic recurve and hunting compounds and longbows. 

I know that is not the case everywhere, but in Vegas it is a wonderful thing. In our JOAD team, out of 12 kids who compete,we have one compound kid. And he is currently deciding if he wants to switch to recurve. Our JOAD program has plenty of genesis bows along with recurve, but on any given night, its rare to see any genesis bows at all on the line. Its all recurves. 

Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

nifty said:


> Great thread Chris thanks for sharing... I'm off to show my teenage son this thread and see if he would like any of these disciplinary measures implemented around the house


lol.


Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

I think in 5 or 10 years, we will see a surge in our female recurve shooters. I have kids in my JOAD than train like they are Korean archers. I have two barely 10 year old girls who shoot 200 plus arrows a day, 6 days a week. I have a number of other kids around age 12 who shoot 5 days a week, and have Olympic dreams. 

The work ethic of some of my JOAD kids is more than some competing adults in my range. 

Chris


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

I think it may be on the low end of that timeline chrstphr. I keep seeing and hearing about more and more young ladies putting ing serious time and dedication to recurve archery. Anecdotal yes, but I am hopeful.


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## eljetico (May 13, 2013)

Interesting clip which illustrates some of what has been mentioned in the thread so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCptsJmBsyI


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I have two barely 10 year old girls who shoot 200 plus arrows a day, 6 days a week.


I had one young student (11) who was shooting at this rate, and I purposely cut her down to no more than 120 arrows/day and no more than 3 days/week. 10/11/12 is no time (IMO) to be overdoing it with a bow. Growth plates are still active and I can show you an X-ray of my own right forearm that shows how overdoing it as a pre-teen to teenager, while still actively growing, can result in long term bone issues. 

So, while we may say we want to see our young archers training at this rate, we also need to be very careful that the are not overdoing it. Not only from a physical standpoint, but also to avoid the burnout that often appears around age 15-16 from shooting at this rate.

John


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> I had one young student (11) who was shooting at this rate, and I purposely cut her down to no more than 120 arrows/day and no more than 3 days/week. 10/11/12 is no time (IMO) to be overdoing it with a bow. Growth plates are still active and I can show you an X-ray of my own right forearm that shows how overdoing it as a pre-teen to teenager, while still actively growing, can result in long term bone issues.
> 
> So, while we may say we want to see our young archers training at this rate, we also need to be very careful that the are not overdoing it. Not only from a physical standpoint, but also to avoid the burnout that often appears around age 15-16 from shooting at this rate.
> 
> John


+1 Overlaying adult training programs on youth athletes is the direct route to getting them out of the sport.


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## wfocharlie (Feb 16, 2013)

eljetico said:


> Interesting clip which illustrates some of what has been mentioned in the thread so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCptsJmBsyI


I'm showing up at my next tournament with a snake around my neck. That has to be good for a few intimidation points.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

In other words, if you shoot heavy bows with your fingers too much while you're still growing, you could end up with something that looks like this:









And that little "gem" right there is what kept me out of the 2008 Olympic trials.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

thats quite the pronounced bone spur on your ulna, John. i've never seen one from archery but i have seen ones in the leg bones from teens engaged in weightlifting and track and field. 



limbwalker said:


> In other words, if you shoot heavy bows with your fingers too much while you're still growing, you could end up with something that looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 1899231
> 
> ...


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> I had one young student (11) who was shooting at this rate, and I purposely cut her down to no more than 120 arrows/day and no more than 3 days/week. 10/11/12 is no time (IMO) to be overdoing it with a bow. Growth plates are still active and I can show you an X-ray of my own right forearm that shows how overdoing it as a pre-teen to teenager, while still actively growing, can result in long term bone issues.
> 
> So, while we may say we want to see our young archers training at this rate, we also need to be very careful that the are not overdoing it. Not only from a physical standpoint, but also to avoid the burnout that often appears around age 15-16 from shooting at this rate.
> 
> John


If the kids are shooting 15-20 lbs, i dont think that is any heavier work load on their bones/ bodies than normal everyday activities from carrying backpacks full of school books, to other activities like Soccer and Taekwando, or pee wee football. The JOAD kids shooting 200 arrows per day can shoot that number in about 2 hours. They then go on to other activities like fencing, horseback riding, etc etc. 

The more telling is the Korean kids are shooting 200 arrows a day most of the week in Elementary school with poundage ranging from 20-30 lbs. In middle school it goes up to 500 per day with poundage from 30-35 lbs, and in high school its 1000 per day with poundages 40-46 depending on male or female. 

I do not schedule the amount of time our JOAD kids shoot in a week, that is up to them. None of these kids are shooting over 20lb bows OTF. 

This is a core difference in the Korean training system and the rest of the world. The training standards we have for our kids is much lower than for Korean kids. By the time our 18 year old kids show up to compete against them, the Korean kids have shot several 100,000 more arrows.


Chris


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

very true. there are a few archery stores in my area but asking them about anything related to recurve, even as simple as arrow shafts and tabs -you pretty find out quickly enough that they stock none of that stuff at all and don't plan to because the tend for demand just isn't there in comparison to bow hunting and compound.




limbwalker said:


> More like, why would they want to sacrifice $400 worth of compound profit to earn $80 worth of recurve profit. LOL.
> 
> Talk to a few shop owners that know at least something about recurve, and they will be quick to tell you that although they'd love to move more recurve gear, they just cannot afford to.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

chrstphr said:


> If the kids are shooting 15-20 lbs, i dont think that is any heavier work load on their bones/ bodies than normal everyday activities from carrying backpacks full of school books, to other activities like Soccer and Taekwando, or pee wee football. The JOAD kids shooting 200 arrows per day can shoot that number in about 2 hours. They then go on to other activities like fencing, horseback riding, etc etc.
> 
> The more telling is the Korean kids are shooting 200 arrows a day most of the week in Elementary school with poundage ranging from 20-30 lbs. In middle school it goes up to 500 per day with poundage from 30-35 lbs, and in high school its 1000 per day with poundages 40-46 depending on male or female.
> 
> ...


it should also be noted that archery and TKD in korea are often part of the curriculum which has its analog in other asian countries. to have something like archery or a martial art as a form of PE integrates the physical development more closely that, say, if you were to have a program like a JOAD scheme in place which exists apart from the school system. if archery were developed more closely to the school system with kids starting off earlier, you could really make use of that proximity to great effect.


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

If I get a salary for being in the Archery elite team from the government. And pension for winning the olympics
Im sure a lot of archers will be trying to compete for the elite team!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> in high school its 1000 per day with poundages 40-46 depending on male or female.


I have always found this number to be very hard to believe. 1000 arrows takes a LONG time to complete. Even shooting 10 arrow ends, that's 100 ends. Walking back and forth to the bale at 70 meters takes about 5-7 minutes, esp. if other archers are retrieving arrows. Shooting a 10 arrow end takes another 4 minutes or so. So, 10 minutes per end at best = 1000 minutes or over 16 hours of constant shooting without breaks. With breaks, you're talking 18+ hours of shooting.

I just don't see that happening every day. Guess I'm from Missouri on that one. 

300-500/day, sure. I can buy that. But not the famed 1000 we keep hearing about. Even our own RA's who are full time professional archers, only shoot 1000 arrows in a single day a few times/year, and then they cannot shoot for sometimes days after.

Furthermore, there is no reason to shoot 1000 arrows/day to be able to win. The difference for example, between the Korean women and the Korean men's teams is not that the Korean women shoot more arrows.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Jeon shooting 1400 score was in Singapore, Telford and Las Vegas ... not much time to train outdoor, or my calendar is different form Korean one ....:wink:

Koreans use a "standardized" training system that changes during years, so nowdays they like to shoot inside out all the winter ltime. But I remembre some unbellevable (for scores) 18 mt indoor competitions in Korea in the past. Michele participated to one of them in 2003 or 2004 ...

I personally don't give a cent to training 70 mt all winter instead of doing 18 and 25 mt indoor. It is another common thinking that has no real relationship to reality. Italian team ever had his best results at the beginning of the outdoor season when they did NOT have an indoor 70 mt facility. Since some years they have it, but results are not as expected. If archer is protected from air and wind and light variations, trainng that way is just a loss of time as it does not give anything in relationship to real outdoor training. As usual, my Heretic opinion.


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## arwemakere (Feb 26, 2010)

LittleJP said:


> When we try to shoot outdoor distances up in Canada, we end up not being able to find the target butts...


Maybe in "your" Canada. In mine we've been shooting outdoors since, well, we don't stop.

I think there were only a few days this winter that didn't have somebody on my field.

Bill
Burnaby Archers


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> I have always found this number to be very hard to believe. 1000 arrows takes a LONG time to complete. Even shooting 10 arrow ends, that's 100 ends. Walking back and forth to the bale at 70 meters takes about 5-7 minutes, esp. if other archers are retrieving arrows. Shooting a 10 arrow end takes another 4 minutes or so. So, 10 minutes per end at best = 1000 minutes or over 16 hours of constant shooting without breaks. With breaks, you're talking 18+ hours of shooting.
> 
> I just don't see that happening every day. Guess I'm from Missouri on that one.
> 
> ...


the majority if the 1000 per day is done barebale at a distance of 10 yards or less. the kids shoot 8 hours a day. 

typical day at Korean school is from 8 am to 9 or 10 pm at night. School in Korea is different from US schools of 8 to 3pm. korean kids spend 10 or more hours per day at school. also by high school, they go to schools specific to what they are doing, sports, arts, science, etc. So the sports high school has a schedule to accommodate the particular training. 

and i meant that the difference in the korean teams vs everyone else in the world is due to the thousands and thousands more arrows shot. not the difference between korean men team and korean women's team. 
chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Vittorio said:


> Jeon shooting 1400 score was in Singapore, Telford and Las Vegas ... not much time to train outdoor, or my calendar is different form Korean one ....:wink:
> 
> Koreans use a "standardized" training system that changes during years, so nowdays they like to shoot inside out all the winter ltime. But I remembre some unbellevable (for scores) 18 mt indoor competitions in Korea in the past. Michele participated to one of them in 2003 or 2004 ...
> 
> I personally don't give a cent to training 70 mt all winter instead of doing 18 and 25 mt indoor. It is another common thinking that has no real relationship to reality. Italian team ever had his best results at the beginning of the outdoor season when they did NOT have an indoor 70 mt facility. Since some years they have it, but results are not as expected. If archer is protected from air and wind and light variations, trainng that way is just a loss of time as it does not give anything in relationship to real outdoor training. As usual, my Heretic opinion.



however they are training, it is effective. they do shoot all winter out to 70 in snow etc.

they do shoot in the elements at Jeju island and at other ranges that are not with a building.


chris


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

limbwalker said:


> I have always found this number to be very hard to believe. 1000 arrows takes a LONG time to complete. Even shooting 10 arrow ends, that's 100 ends. Walking back and forth to the bale at 70 meters takes about 5-7 minutes, esp. if other archers are retrieving arrows. Shooting a 10 arrow end takes another 4 minutes or so. So, 10 minutes per end at best = 1000 minutes or over 16 hours of constant shooting without breaks. With breaks, you're talking 18+ hours of shooting.
> 
> I just don't see that happening every day. Guess I'm from Missouri on that one.
> 
> ...


The 1000 arrow legend is what it is, a legend. It can be done at short distance, only, surely not at 70 mt, and surely not during half day in the class for the students. It can be done sometime as demonstration, and while a FITA round at 12 arrows ends takes 2 hours, you can reach may be 5 full Fita in a day at 18 arrows ends.. But shooting that way without scoring is useless, or even negative, why to do it? record for my daughter in a day of real training in 2004 has been around 3 full Fita + some sighting arrows. Michele's record when he was youger is less ... 
Peter Suk told clearly several times that 400 to 500 per day is the average for beginners in Korea, but quantity drops to 200/300 average when they are at top level ... and they shoot for scoring


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Great thread guys, thanks for the insights. Especially like your posts Chris, thanks!


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

here is an update. these are the results of the 5th National team qualifier. ladies recurve results.


View attachment 1913349



Chris


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## Gauvinra (Aug 17, 2012)

Very cool. Looks like conditions were tough. Something bad must have happened for Ki to have a 345 at 30m. Do you know how they are ranked? looks like the last column might be ranking points. 

Rich


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

yes, the last column is ranking points. But i do not know what the current ranking is. 

Yes, none of them shot over 1350 so i would assume it was windy or raining.


Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Mens recurve results


View attachment 1913396


from top to bottom,
Lee Seungyun,
Im DongHyun, 
Kim Woo Jin, 
Goo Bon Chan, 
Oh Jin Hyek, 
Lee Woo Seok, 
Kim Bum Min, 
Jeong Sung Won, 
Han Oh Tak, 
Bae Jae Hyun, 
Jin Jae Wong, 
Im Ji Won, 
Kim Seok Kwan, 
Lee Chang Won, 
Kim Gyu Chan. 

( i may have a few mispelled).

Chris


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

thanks Chris it's interesting to see what their scores look like on bad days.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

DWAA Archer said:


> thanks Chris it's interesting to see what their scores look like on bad days.


....i'll take them on ANY day!!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Oh, didn't break 1300. Man, that must have been a windy day!


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

Every one can have a bad day just hope that the other archer is not having a good day. in the UK 1265 is a GMB score which to achieve this must be shot 3 times in the same season at a UK record status or World record status competition only Gents FITA or York to qualify. GMB (Grand Master Bowmen) is a classification that is held by roughly 1% of UK archers thats 1% of 30,000+ archers very few of them crack 1300  if they do they will be heading for squad


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

here is latest update on the korean national team trials. Top 16 was cut to top 12. 


View attachment 1915720


from top to bottom, 
Choi Mi Sun, 
Jung DaSoMi,
Hyunjung Joo, 
Jeon Sung Eun, ( shot at Vegas and Telford and Singapore on the LH team)
An Se Jin,
Hyejin Chang, ( shot at Vegas and Telford and Singapore on the LH team)
Hong Soo Nam, 
Kang Chae Young,
Lee Tuk Young, 
Ki Bo Bae, 
Jeon Hoon Young,
Jeon Na Young, ....Yun ok Hee did not make the cut. at 15th. Ki Bo Bae is currently in 10th.

After tomorrow they will go into elimination rounds and cut from the top 12 to the top 8. 

I am cheering Hyejin Chang and Hyunjung Joo!. 


Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

the men, Kim Woo Jin is making a serious comeback and is top right now!

View attachment 1915721


From top to bottom...
Kim Woo Jin,
Oh Jin Hyek,
Lee Seungyun,
Goo Bon Chan,
Im DongHyun, 
Lee Woo Seok,
Han Oh Tak, 
Jeong Sung Won, 
Bae Jae Hyun,
Kim Bum Min,
Lee Chang Won,
Jin Jae Wong, 

Chris


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

may i know what are those numbers in the last column that are used as tiebreakers?...

...i can only presume that they're some sort of cumulative scores for a certain period or accumulation of tournaments..but which ones?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

when they place first in a tournament, they get 16 points, 2nd gets 15, 3rd gets 14 etc., The higher the points, the higher the placement.

the way to read the chart is like this...

for example Kim Woo Jin has 14, 16, and 14 points for 44 points total.

the 1st qualifier he got 3rd and was given 14 PLACEMENT points. The second qualifier he got 2nd (15 points) for the FITA and 2nd ( 15 points for the matchplay) giving him 30 points total. Which put him in 1st place. He received 16 PLACEMENT points for that 1st place standing. then the 3rd qualifier he got 2nd for the FITA ( 15 points) and 3rd for the matchplay (14 points) ( 29 points total which gave him 3rd place and 14 PLACEMENT points. 

they then combine the PLACEMENT points 14+16+14 for 44 points. That gives him 1st place in the top 16 cut to 12. 


( there are 5 tournaments, but i think the first 3 give you the top 16 who them compete in 2 more tournaments. Those 16 vie in the 5th tournament and it gets cut to 12 by the FITA score, and then to 8 by matchplay. 
Tomorrow they will have elimination matches and cut to 8. 

The last numbers 3499 etc, are an accumulation of scores from the 5 National qualifiers. I do not know exactly how they arrive at the totals though. I also do not know how they do tie breakers. 

For the USA we are the opposite. You want the lowest numbers. So if you place 1st, you have 1 point, 7th is 7 points. The top 8 on the National team are the 8 archers with the lowest score from Nationals and three other qualifiers. 

Chris


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

chrstphr said:


> when they place first in a tournament, they get 16 points, 2nd gets 15, 3rd gets 14 etc., The higher the points, the higher the placement.
> 
> the way to read the chart is like this...
> 
> ...



..many thanks for the detailed explanation!!


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Today is compound eliminations. Tomorrow they will cut to 8 for recurve men and women. Yun Oh Kee who is the number 1 ranked archer in the world missed the cut to 12 yesterday. Ki Bo Bae who is second in the world is currently in 11th and may miss the cut to 8. 

If that happens, then the number 1 and 2 ranked female recurve archers in the world will not be on the World cup circuit on the Korean national team. 

View attachment 1916705



from top to bottom, Jung DaSoMi, Hyunjung Joo, Choi Mi Sun, Jeon Sung Eun, Lee Tuk Young, Hong Soo Nam, Hyejin Chang, An Se Jin, Jeon Hoon Young, Kang Chae Young, Ki Bo Bae, Jeon Na Young.



Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

So much for the world ranking system then...


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

of the 12 left in Women's recurve

Joo Hyunjung WR 5th
Chang Hyejin WR 14th
Jung DaSoMi WR 82nd
Jeon Sung Eun WR 129th
Choi Mi Sun WR 137th
An Se Jin WR 255th

There are other Korean ladies that have a World ranking, but they do not compete any longer or did not make the top 16 from the qualifiers ) like Choi Hyeonju ranked 27th and Lee Sung Jin ranked 35th. But it will be rare to see both top archers not make the cut a year later. 

The rest of the ladies in the 12 have not competed in international events yet to get a ranking except for Lee Tuk Young who competed several years ago but lost her ranking by not making the team for a few years.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Yun OK Hee and Ki Bo Bae did not make the Korean National team this year. 


Chris


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

#1 and #2 in the world rankings can't make the middle cut of their own team ranking comps? Wow, I am in awe of the competition levels in South Korea.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

lksseven said:


> #1 and #2 in the world rankings can't make the middle cut of their own team ranking comps? Wow, I am in awe of the competition levels in South Korea.


Yun Ok Hee finished 15th and Ki Bo Bae finished 11th. Only the top 8 make the team each year. HyunJung Joo who finished first was on the Beijing team. She then quit for 2 years to start a family, now she is back. But it is surprising that both the #1 and 2 ranked female archers in the world couldnt make the team the following year. 

Chris


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## DarkMuppet (Oct 23, 2013)

chrstphr said:


> Yun Ok Hee finished 15th and Ki Bo Bae finished 11th. Only the top 8 make the team each year. HyunJung Joo who finished first was on the Beijing team. She then quit for 2 years to start a family, now she is back. But it is surprising that both the #1 and 2 ranked female archers in the world couldnt make the team the following year.
> 
> Chris


Exactly the same thing happened to Kim Woo Jin a couple of years ago. He was the current World Champion, World Cup Champion and the world record holder of 1387, and still didn't get on the Olympic team! :mg:

The crazy thing was he was still putting in 1370+ scores on their domestic circuit at the time! Just goes to show, you have a few off days and you lose your place for a year or two!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i think everybody will agree that the korean archers are just in a class of their own..

i seem to recall an event a few years back wherein about 130 archers--forgot if they were male or female--and about 100 shot 1300+..

...unbelievable depth!!

..the only comparable nation i can recall is the old USSR which had a lot chess players with Elo ratings over 2400 or was it 2500??!!


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

DarkMuppet said:


> Exactly the same thing happened to Kim Woo Jin a couple of years ago. He was the current World Champion, World Cup Champion and the world record holder of 1387, and still didn't get on the Olympic team! :mg:
> 
> The crazy thing was he was still putting in 1370+ scores on their domestic circuit at the time! Just goes to show, you have a few off days and you lose your place for a year or two!


I believe that he was not allowed to compete by the Korean National archery higher ups for some reason. I dont think it was because he was outshot and couldnt make the team. I think the National body held him back and kept him from competing.

Chris


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## DarkMuppet (Oct 23, 2013)

chrstphr said:


> I believe that he was not allowed to compete by the Korean National archery higher ups for some reason. I dont think it was because he was outshot and couldnt make the team. I think the National body held him back and kept him from competing.
> 
> Chris


Ah ok, so that's why he just disappeared off the international circuit. It shows what determination he has then if he's made it through the qualifiers again this year after all that.

It was such a shame that happened to him though, poor guy couldn't defend his World Championship title and Cup title. 


Do you know what the outcome of today's results are ?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

URSS was the previous superpower in women archery, until they separated in different nations. Sport system in URSS was built by severe competition amongs internal nations, with very hard training since childhood, and Archery was very popular and competitive ina al nations, that means Russia, Ukraina, Georgia, Moldova, Bielorussia, Kasìzakistan.
The last great women team from former URSS was shooting in Barcelona OG 1992, with Natalia Valeeva (Moldova), Khatouna Kurivichvili (Georgia) and Loudmila Arjannikova (Russia, if I'm not wrong). How strong they were? Well enough to be still here shooting at top level for Natalia & Kathuna.
A strong sport structure and long term programming at national level is the only key to success in Archery and other sports as well...


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

DarkMuppet said:


> Ah ok, so that's why he just disappeared off the international circuit. It shows what determination he has then if he's made it through the qualifiers again this year after all that.
> 
> It was such a shame that happened to him though, poor guy couldn't defend his World Championship title and Cup title.
> 
> ...


Yes, i had them posted on my facebook since yesterday. 

Final Women's team from first to 8th

Hyunjung Joo, Jeon Sung Eun, Jung DaSoMi, Hong Soo Nam, Lee Tuk Young, Choi Mi Sun, Hyejin Chang, Jeon Hoon Young.

Final Men's team from first to 8th....

Oh Jin Hyek, Goo Bon Chan, Kim Woo Jin, Im DongHyun, Lee Seungyun, Han Woo Tak, Jeong Sung Won, and Lee Woo Seok.

Chris


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> Yes, i had them posted on my facebook since yesterday.
> 
> Final Women's team from first to 8th
> 
> ...


Am I wrong, or the top 4 only are the A team for the World Cup ?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Vittorio said:


> Am I wrong, or the top 4 only are the A team for the World Cup ?


I do not know how they pick the members to compete at the World cup series. If you are correct, then at Shanghai we will see Hyunjung Joo, Jeon Sung Eun, Jung Dasomi and Hong Soo Nam. 

I could ask Hyejin Chang if she will be at Shanghai for the world cup. 

Chris


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

now the rest of the Archery world is talking learning about Ki Bo Bae and Yun Ok Hee missing the team selection.


http://worldarchery.org/NEWS/News_/ArtMID/10510/ArticleID/9452/Olympic-Champion-off-Korean-team


Chris


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> I do not know how they pick the members to compete at the World cup series. If you are correct, then at Shanghai we will see Hyunjung Joo, Jeon Sung Eun, Jung Dasomi and Hong Soo Nam.
> 
> I could ask Hyejin Chang if she will be at Shanghai for the world cup.
> 
> Chris


As far as I can see from WA web site (presently in a total mess... IMHO) is that Korea will send to Shanghai the compound team, only. The recurve one will go to Medellin.... Shanghai this year will be a small tournament in number of participants ..


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Vittorio said:


> As far as I can see from WA web site (presently in a total mess... IMHO) is that Korea will send to Shanghai the compound team, only. The recurve one will go to Medellin.... Shanghai this year will be a small tournament in number of participants ..


you would think that they would send the full team to Shanghai since its closer. Last year they did not participate at Medellin at all. Perhaps they are preparing for the future test event and 2016 Olympics in South America by choosing Medellin this time.

Chris


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> you would think that they would send the full team to Shanghai since its closer. Last year they did not participate at Medellin at all. Perhaps they are preparing for the future test event and 2016 Olympics in South America by choosing Medellin this time.
> 
> Chris


Exactly what I heard during 2013 WA Congress from their representative...


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## waxyjaywalker (Apr 10, 2013)

arwemakere said:


> Maybe in "your" Canada. In mine we've been shooting outdoors since, well, we don't stop.
> 
> I think there were only a few days this winter that didn't have somebody on my field.
> 
> ...



Oh man i really wished I lived in BC! Luckily most of the snow has melted here in Toronto!


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Deepika Kumari also did not make the cut to top four in India qualifier to go to Shanghai World cup, so world ranked number 1,2, and 3 will not be competing. There is talk that the India Archery association may let her go to Medellin to prepare for the Asian Games in Incheon Korea. 

Chris


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

There is a basic mistake in FITA world rank list: it only considers archers that show up at certain competitions.
As these competitions are quite often very expensive to reach and reseved to official national teams, they are also quite often not representative of the real value of the archers around the world.
Then, you add that all activity done during winter (indoor) is not taken in consideration, and that field archery is not considered, too, and you end up with a list that only includes a part of the top world shooters. More good archers a nation has, less probabilities they have to be ranked properly. More, you have to add to the equation the available budget of each nation, now in trouble for many, some political choices here and there, and the result is that we have had the world ranking list steady and not moving for months, and now many participating to some remote tournamnts like first Asian GPX are moving up, while people in the finals of the world indoor championships like Tyak, Ruban and Ellison did not get any point for it, and the Italian and the Korean team not going to Shanghai will drop in the team ranking automatically. 
Frankly, apart from pure advertising purpose, the World Rank list as it is is just....... Fortunately, every 4 years we have the Olympic Games... at least.


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## naveedgt (May 9, 2012)

Any videos or pictures of these events?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

naveedgt said:


> Any videos or pictures of these events?


yes, i posted a few photos on my facebook page. 

Chris


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