# Dropping out of target



## Ampie (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi, can anyone please give me some advice on this problem. When floating in the target, I tend to fall out at the bottom, and then the dot just sit there. That causes me to ride the bow upwards into the spot, and then the shot goes high. I shoot with a wrist strap because the handhelds don't work with tendon-elbows. Any advice will be highly appreciated.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Usually this is due to loss of focus on aiming. The archer loses total immersion in aiming and their attention flickers to something else and the pin dips. 

Typically the reason for loss of attention is that there is some part of your form that you don't totally trust to operate on the subconscious level so you take your attention off of aiming and to check on it.

The cure for this is time on the blank bale and a disciplined bridge. 

Allen


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## Ampie (Mar 18, 2008)

Thanks Allen. I shortened the DL by 1/4 inch, put a smaller dot in my scope, and it seems to be much better. Now it is only for the mental part.....


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## The G (Nov 12, 2009)

you could also try adding a 1/4 twist at a time to the bottom tiller.


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## Ampie (Mar 18, 2008)

I have never tried funny stuff with tiller. Won't that affect the timing, balance, or damage my bow???


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

Ampie, 
Allen is right; you do not have a trusted shot sequence. Doesn't it just totally blow your mind that you can epoxy the pin @ 6'Oclock but cannot hold center X? I wish it was simply Bow Gremlins that are responsible. We could kill them and you could enjoy your archery. However, it won't be that easy. The reason you can hold at 6 O'clock on the spot with ease is due to the fact that there is no risk involved. You ain't going to shoot with the pin there so you can't miss. However when the pin is placed on the X, your mind says, "Oh S#@!, what do I do now, the pin is on the X." So in turn you let it fall to 6 O'clock and immediately your mind is back in the comfort zone. I have been where you are, lied to myself, bought new releases, new bows, new grips, and fiddled with the tiller. None of it works. The issue comes from the demons of doubt that we create from not establishing a tried, tested, and true shot sequence. 
The first thing you should do is to establish a written shot sequence and follow it. It should begin with foot position, and go step by step and end with observe result. The easiest way to create a shot sequence is to do the old exercise we did in elementary school. Remember when we were asked to write instructions for things such as How to Brush Your Teeth? All you have to do is write down, step by step how to shoot a bow. But make sure to include the steps of pre-aim, acquire target, aim, settle/float/relax, call shot to order, execute, and follow through. Once this is done, go to the range, hang the target you normally shoot, and set-up at 10 yards. What you need to do now is go step by step through your shot sequence but stop before executing the shot. You have to commit to not shooting the arrow for as long as it takes you to re-train the process of pre-aim, acquire, aim, settle/float/relax and calling the shot to order. There are two reasons for this. First, you need to gain a sense of comfort, trust, and enjoyment of being on center X. Second, until you gain that sense, you do not need to have a miss that results in counter- productive doubt. Your process will be, set foot position, set grip, pre-aim (focus on the x, your goal), draw to anchor without losing focus of the X, and immediately acquire the target in your sight. I need to stop here and express just how important this acquisition is for you. When I say acquire the target with the sight, I mean put the pin on the X immediately. Do not start at 1 O'clock and fall into the X or start at 6'Oclock and push up into the X. You know that doesn’t work. Put the pin on the X! If you fail to do that, start over. When you can put it on the X, the next step is to aim. Aiming has little to do with the pin. Aiming means burn a hole into the X like you are Superman with X-ray vision. All the while you need to let the pin float and learn to be comfortable there. You need to enjoy seeing the pin float on the X. At this time, everything is good with the world so you will call it good. Now STOP. Let down and start over. Do this again and again until you are able to trust your new found ability. Do not break training to see how you are doing with live fire. Spend several weeks to a month with this exercise until acquiring the target immediately and enjoying seeing the pin float there becomes your favorite part of the shot sequence. Once you have this. Start the live fire at close range (10 yards) and absolutely do not allow yourself to fire an arrow if any part of your shot sequence is flawed, especially if you fall out of the x at 6 O'clock. Just go back to step one. You will be amazed at how quickly you will be able to acquire the X immediately once it is a conscious step in the shot sequence. But it will take time to trust your ability to float it there with no stress. Once you get where you want to be, be sure to be disciplined enough to go back to training any time you start to creep back into old habits. Tough it is, young Jedi to commit the time to retrain the mind, but success you will have.
Best of Luck,
SpotShy


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

SpotShy said:


> Ampie,
> Allen is right; you do not have a trusted shot sequence. Doesn't it just totally blow your mind that you can epoxy the pin @ 6'Oclock but cannot hold center X? I wish it was simply Bow Gremlins that are responsible. We could kill them and you could enjoy your archery. However, it won't be that easy. The reason you can hold at 6 O'clock on the spot with ease is due to the fact that there is no risk involved. You ain't going to shoot with the pin there so you can't miss. However when the pin is placed on the X, your mind says, "Oh S#@!, what do I do now, the pin is on the X." So in turn you let it fall to 6 O'clock and immediately your mind is back in the comfort zone. I have been where you are, lied to myself, bought new releases, new bows, new grips, and fiddled with the tiller. None of it works. The issue comes from the demons of doubt that we create from not establishing a tried, tested, and true shot sequence.
> The first thing you should do is to establish a written shot sequence and follow it. It should begin with foot position, and go step by step and end with observe result. The easiest way to create a shot sequence is to do the old exercise we did in elementary school. Remember when we were asked to write instructions for things such as How to Brush Your Teeth? All you have to do is write down, step by step how to shoot a bow. But make sure to include the steps of pre-aim, acquire target, aim, settle/float/relax, call shot to order, execute, and follow through. Once this is done, go to the range, hang the target you normally shoot, and set-up at 10 yards. What you need to do now is go step by step through your shot sequence but stop before executing the shot. You have to commit to not shooting the arrow for as long as it takes you to re-train the process of pre-aim, acquire, aim, settle/float/relax and calling the shot to order. There are two reasons for this. First, you need to gain a sense of comfort, trust, and enjoyment of being on center X. Second, until you gain that sense, you do not need to have a miss that results in counter- productive doubt. Your process will be, set foot position, set grip, pre-aim (focus on the x, your goal), draw to anchor without losing focus of the X, and immediately acquire the target in your sight. I need to stop here and express just how important this acquisition is for you. When I say acquire the target with the sight, I mean put the pin on the X immediately. Do not start at 1 O'clock and fall into the X or start at 6'Oclock and push up into the X. You know that doesn’t work. Put the pin on the X! If you fail to do that, start over. When you can put it on the X, the next step is to aim. Aiming has little to do with the pin. Aiming means burn a hole into the X like you are Superman with X-ray vision. All the while you need to let the pin float and learn to be comfortable there. You need to enjoy seeing the pin float on the X. At this time, everything is good with the world so you will call it good. Now STOP. Let down and start over. Do this again and again until you are able to trust your new found ability. Do not break training to see how you are doing with live fire. Spend several weeks to a month with this exercise until acquiring the target immediately and enjoying seeing the pin float there becomes your favorite part of the shot sequence. Once you have this. Start the live fire at close range (10 yards) and absolutely do not allow yourself to fire an arrow if any part of your shot sequence is flawed, especially if you fall out of the x at 6 O'clock. Just go back to step one. You will be amazed at how quickly you will be able to acquire the X immediately once it is a conscious step in the shot sequence. But it will take time to trust your ability to float it there with no stress. Once you get where you want to be, be sure to be disciplined enough to go back to training any time you start to creep back into old habits. Tough it is, young Jedi to commit the time to retrain the mind, but success you will have.
> Best of Luck,
> SpotShy


Great post! :thumbs_up


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Spotshy,

I guess we now know how you came up with your user name. 

Very good post!


Ampie,
Here is an old thread on shot sequence:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=115065

This will give you some examples of what is often included in a shot sequence. Some of these are good, and some not. You really have to develop your own.

Good luck,
Allen


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## Ampie (Mar 18, 2008)

Thanks SpotShy. It is as if you know me personally. I always tell my fellow archers there is no such thing as target panic. No one of us is scared of a target( unless it is a wounded buffalo or some angry cat). What I do believe, is there is a thing called Scoresheet Panic. If I just shoot groupings, all is fine, but the moment the calculator or pen comes out, that @$#$%^ thing others call Target Panic comes with it. Did the target change into something that can kill you???????? NO !!!!!!!!!!!! So are you afraid of it?????? NO !!!!!!!!! What you are afraid of is the scoreheet, and that panics you. It is like you said, OH [email protected]#$T, im on target, what now? I'll take your advice up seriously and work on a lot of things. I'll make another post on this forum to keep you helpfull guys updated on my progress.


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

Ampie,

I once had a guy tell me he had target panic and since we were good friends I messed with him a bit before actually helping him. I went to his five spot and drew smilie faces on each spot. I then went back to him and told him that he was cured because they were all nice targets and shouldn't be scary anymore so no need to panic. He called me a few colorful names, we laughed and went to work on building him a shot sequence he could believe in. We call it a lot of things, but truely it is nothing more than the anxiety of missing caused by lack of faith in our developed process.


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## slicer (Dec 18, 2008)

I truly think 95% or better of the archery population has some form of TP.

The simple problem with the OP is this: He is noticing his pin. He is having an emotional response to that pin. He thinks the pin needs to be on the X before he can shoot. This is the problem with most everyone out there. They are focusing on results by aiming the pin....need to focus on the process instead.

I also think a lot of archers spend to much time trying to develop a subconscious shot execution. When we monitor or body's expansion to be smooth and non-stop we produce good shots. I do not want a shot cycle that I don't monitor. There are far greater day to day differences in how our bodies work. Our eyes and our mind always know how to aim for us. The process of aiming should be looked at like holding your release the same way. One small step....no need to put any more in to it.


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

Great post Spotshy i would like to add a coulple of things.The pin is just your front anchor AND SHOULD NOT INDUCE AIMING.Pin on target is calibration not a reason to committ.The eye puts the pin on target but the MIND KEEPS IT THERE.Stay mentally hooked up thru conclusion.The whole key to any successful shot sequence no matter who you are or how many steps is to be FREE TO AIM.When your sequence is trusted 1000% you are free to burn a hole in that target while the subconscious takes care of the back end and you are completely,totally focused on aiming.That is when the purest of archery shots occur.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

well said come and take it. you must trust your release.....:cool2:


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## Jkelly (Nov 20, 2005)

I found this thread on accident and I think its all amazing advice. Cant wait to get to the range and try some of these things. Thanks everyone!


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

DONT FIGHT GRAVITY. start high, slowly come down to the target...


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Ampie said:


> I have never tried funny stuff with tiller. Won't that affect the timing, balance, or damage my bow???


Adjusting the tiller won't damage your bow as long as you don't back out either limb bolts more than recommended. Your bow manufacturer usually provides this information. Tiller tuning is usually done with a maximum difference of one full turn of the limb bolts. 

Yes, it will affect the timing and balance. It's sort of the whole point of doing it.  You will also have to adjust your nock point.

George Ryals has an excellent video that includes an explanation of tiller tuning. A little pricy, but more than worth it.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

:shade:i think its just a simple thing, ampie:focus: is just heeling the bow.. :cool2:


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyBKOApNqos&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Everyone wants to tell you TP but it will turn into TP if you keep fighting this issue..my 2cents


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

aread said:


> Adjusting the tiller won't damage your bow as long as you don't back out either limb bolts more than recommended. Your bow manufacturer usually provides this information. Tiller tuning is usually done with a maximum difference of one full turn of the limb bolts.
> 
> Yes, it will affect the timing and balance. It's sort of the whole point of doing it.  You will also have to adjust your nock point.
> 
> George Ryals has an excellent video that includes an explanation of tiller tuning. A little pricy, but more than worth it.


I have taken a 1/4 turn in or out on my tiller and had the bow hold like a rock! And as mentioned earlier, start high and settle in on the "X". Don't fight gravity! Also, depending on your stabilizer set-up, you might try removing a weight from the front or removing one from your V-bar (if you have one) or both! This can make a HUGE difference!!


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

NEVADAPRO said:


> I have taken a 1/4 turn in or out on my tiller and had the bow hold like a rock! And as mentioned earlier, start high and settle in on the "X". Don't fight gravity! Also, depending on your stabilizer set-up, you might try removing a weight from the front or removing one from your V-bar (if you have one) or both! This can make a HUGE difference!!


I meant "add a weight to the v-bar...not remove one"!! So either remove a weight from the front...or add one to the v-bar.


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## carlielos (May 12, 2007)

mike 66 said:


> DONT FIGHT GRAVITY. start high, slowly come down to the target...


I will agree to draw high, square your frame but put the pin on the X ASAP, if you start with the pin at 12:00 and slowly drop it now you have to stop a motion in progress, why would you want to add in more to the process? Drive by shooting occurs this way, Grab that X as soon as you can, settle in to your shot process and nail it, dont train your self to aim/look at anything other then the X!!! Just like when youve shot the X out of the bottom at 6:0clock, now its a BLACK hole drawing you in, Just see the X and be the X!


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## r2t2 (Feb 8, 2003)

Check out the Truespot lenses. They are now making some new lenses in inovative ways that have a lot of target archers talking.

RT


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## arrowm (Dec 8, 2008)

*Panic*

I have to agree with everyone! I have coached many, and many have different mental battles. Equipment changes can help, but I've also seen a few whoop A** with less than par equipment but instead armed with a rock solid aiming approach. "There are bold electricians and there are old electricians but there are NO OLD BOLD ELECTRICIANS" comes to mind time and time again. Many title carrying archers ARE electricians because they do the work, step by step, rythmatically until they don't know how to do it any other way!
Start close (10 yds.) and practice aiming only without firing. Slowly increase distance until your at your goal. Eventually, the fear will pass. Will it come back? Yep, thats the game. Warm up AND cool down daily with aiming exercises to keep the fear at bay!


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