# Dot disappearing when aiming?



## DedDeerWalking (Dec 10, 2009)

Hey all, 
I am in the process of finding out what works best on my lens. Dot or ring. I did not like the ring but I believe it is because I did not have it thick enough. I am shooting a axcel x31 scope with 4x lens. 

I recently tried a black dot that covered the majority of the white on a five spot target. It worked well but I found that I would lose it at times. It would disappear on the target. I then found myself moving my eyes around to re focus the dot. I do shoot with both eyes open. 

Any advice would be great. I do have different size peep appetuers but my sight window looks good so I'm not sure if that will change anything. Possibly using the next size larger dot?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Eye issues? 

Are you using a clarifier? They sure make a pin or dot fade. 

I don't know. Dot is too big, maybe, and you don't have enough contrast?

I use 4X lenses. Picture doesn't show the green and red .029" pins. All these stick out plainly for me. The aluminum and small housings have 6X lenses.

Dots and rings are by Archery Specialty.


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## DedDeerWalking (Dec 10, 2009)

Good vision, no eye issues, and I'm not using a clarifier. 
It's strange as I am centering the dot when it happens its like I can see right through the dot. It's a black dot!! I didn't think it would happen. It's almost like my left eye is taking over when it happens! 
The specialty dots and circles is what I'm using.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Yeah seems like a possible sight issue. I just recently tried a black dot that matches your description, but ended up going back to my 1/8" red dot.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

DedDeerWalking said:


> Good vision, no eye issues, and I'm not using a clarifier.
> It's strange as I am centering the dot when it happens its like I can see right through the dot. It's a black dot!! I didn't think it would happen. It's almost like my left eye is taking over when it happens!
> The specialty dots and circles is what I'm using.


Are you left eye dominate?


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## DedDeerWalking (Dec 10, 2009)

Nope. I did the test. For sure right eye dominant.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm left eye dominant and shoot right handed. IF one's off aiming eye were to take over one would be looking at "mess," not losing the dot or circle.

??? "As if looking right through it?" Perfect alignment and maybe not use to it? Have you shot when at this point?


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## DedDeerWalking (Dec 10, 2009)

That makes sense Sonny. It very well could be me just getting use to shooting with a large dot. I have shot at the point of not being able to see the dot. It seemed like the results were good when shooting at every target except the center target of a five spot. 
When the dot would disappear my eyes started to pick up the other targets for some reason. 

This makes me think that I should just trust when it fades away and keep my firing engine running.


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## Wyotarget (Mar 17, 2013)

I do not think the dot fading out is a bad thing, it's kind of a reference to me, if I focus on the dot instead of the center of the target I miss. I use the dot as I settle into the target then shift my focus to the center of the target. That's when the dot fades and I just keep focused and follow through. My orange dot kind of turns a grey color and I look through it.

But I started target archery shooting a try spot so I never had the aiming reference just center the scope in the housing and focus on the center.


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## DedDeerWalking (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks for the info! I will keep with it and stop focusing on the dot. 
I know I do not want to get into a habit of chasing the dot around so maybe it's not a bad thing that I can look past it.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

I am convinced most people who don't like a ring haven't given the skill proper time to develop. One mans opinion.


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## V3505 (Jan 31, 2013)

I use a black dot that completely covers the white on a five spot.... if I can see white, no shoot. Is the same on a vegas 3 spot. Maybe you could try a slightly larger dot, it doesn't seem to me the color matters.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

When I switched from a #2 clarifier to a #3, the circle on my lens disappeared. However, it didn't seem to hurt my scores. I think that I was simply centering up the scope ring on the target. JAVI had a good thread on this a few years back. I'll try to find it when I get home tonight.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Lazarus said:


> I am convinced most people who don't like a ring haven't given the skill proper time to develop. One mans opinion.


True. See my above pic. The smallest housing has only a ring, lens is not drilled.


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## archeryshooter3 (Apr 12, 2011)

my eyes do the same thing. its a natural action of the mind. if you are concentrating on an object and your dominant eye gets blocked out, in this case by the black dot, then your non dominant eye will take over.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Wyotarget said:


> I do not think the dot fading out is a bad thing, it's kind of a reference to me, if I focus on the dot instead of the center of the target I miss. I use the dot as I settle into the target then shift my focus to the center of the target. That's when the dot fades and I just keep focused and follow through. My orange dot kind of turns a grey color and I look through it.
> 
> But I started target archery shooting a try spot so I never had the aiming reference just center the scope in the housing and focus on the center.


Pretty much the same for me as I use the dot and settle into the target and then shift my focus to the center of the target. I seem to forget about the dot as It's not my concentration at that point and the shot breaks. Seems to work best for me.


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## stromdidilly (Jan 8, 2014)

How do you know where it is when the shot breaks, or if your float opens up to an unacceptable amount?


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

archeryshooter3 said:


> my eyes do the same thing. its a natural action of the mind. if you are concentrating on an object and your dominant eye gets blocked out, in this case by the black dot, then your non dominant eye will take over.


My experience also. What I do when I shoot with a scope is use a blinder for the left eye (I shoot RH) to calm down my over-active visual cortex. Else, the entire scope will fade in and out of existence while I'm trying to make the shot which is very distracting . But the blinder, tho a pain in the rear, really does help me with this.

DM


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

stromdidilly said:


> How do you know where it is when the shot breaks, or if your float opens up to an unacceptable amount?


Trust for the first part and when your float wanders you usually pick it up and time to let down and start over.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

stromdidilly said:


> How do you know where it is when the shot breaks, or if your float opens up to an unacceptable amount?


You're still aware it is there, it just fades far back into your peripheral vision as you increase your focus on the dot. If things start going all haywire with your sight picture, it jumps back into your conscious focus and you respond accordingly--hopefully with a let down. 

Ideally, when the shot breaks, you should only consciously see the thing you're aiming to hit.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Good luck, I know for me I struggled to find a peep and sight pin or dot or ring setup that I enjoyed and could see in a variety of conditions. There is nothing worse than showing up to a indoor shoot and it being different lighting than your home town range and not being able to see well. 

For me I found a way back when I was shooting a clarifier to do things but finally I went back to a aperature and a .19 pin with a green fiber and not external light source and it works awesome for 3d and indoor or any general shooting that I do with no changes from one to another. if I was a indoor only guy I might do something different but I use it to train for 3d and it isn't my focus. 

I am a strong indoor shooter though and one thing I would say to you is the really good shooters aren't having to super focus or burn a hole in the target, they are more of a supervisor or spectator of the shot. You may be trying to overly focus on the x and causing your eyes to blurr out the pin or dot with way to much focus effort. The thing about indoor is that you are good enough to hit a x at 20 yards so accept that and then just learn to execute really smooth shots over and over and over, it isn't about extra focus or determination it is about just being a good smooth shooter who already knows he can hit.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

found it:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=328511&highlight=scope


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

aread said:


> found it:
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=328511&highlight=scope


Yes, I was taught this years ago in college when I first took up olympic style. The idea is focus on the target and let the mind automatically align the sight ring with the rings on the target. Assuming your vision is good enough, the alignment of the "blur" is done for you subconsciously. When you get good at it, you can actually lose sight of the sight ring, but it's still working underlyingly. 

I now shoot my compounds with regular sight rings (moving to the Bowhunter FS class) and I still use this method. Works quite well, in my experience.

DM


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## DedDeerWalking (Dec 10, 2009)

Awesome info. Thank you all for the input! I am not ruling out trying a ring again. I am pretty sure I struggled with it because it was not thick enough. I


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## Khaslem (Mar 19, 2012)

Here's what I used for a while with good results. I was using a x31 scope and I aligned a black dot on the lens with a .10 fiber pin also. So if the lighting was decent I had fiber to see and if it got too dark I still had the black dot. It may add just enough color to help it not wash out of your view. It's a pain getting the dot and pin perfectly aligned but maybe it's worth a try. Also be sure you decide what part of your view is important for you to be clear because with a magnified lens you can't have it all. Target or pin. I have switched back and forth a lot trying to decide which I like to see and still haven't settled on one. But accepting that one will be blurry makes the whole process less frustrating.


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## pathogan (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm currently using a very small dot and with it covering the spot I get panicy and move the dot so I can see it causing me to miss my shots. I tired staring through the dot, trying to make it disappear and just couldn't do it. I'm at a place were I'm ready to give up on it and go to a ring. I know it's very subjective, but what would be a good size to start with? I can adjust it once I get used to shooting a ring but it would help to have a good starting place. Also, do any of the top pros use a ring instead of a dot?


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Not sure why you sound so apprehensive about trying a ring, get a set from Lancaster, they come with a range of different sizes to try.
Not sure which pros are using a ring, but it is what works for you, not them.


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## pathogan (Jul 7, 2015)

Mahly said:


> Not sure why you sound so apprehensive about trying a ring, .


I guess it's a double edge sword for me. If it's not on the spot how will I hit the X? The openings on the scopes above just seem to big to be accurate. I'm going to try it though. Right now it couldn't be any worse....


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

The human mind likes to line up concentric circles. A ring won't work as well for 3-D as it does for spots.
If your worried, try the smallest ring in a package and start there.
I went to a ring last year, and LOVE it. Even for games where your not shooting at circles, you know when your on target.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

There’s a lot of conjecture regarding the “correct” sight picture. I contend that you may find the right answer by simply trying different things…… including your feeling that you need to look “through” the dot to the target. About a year ago I shifted focus to the dot instead of the X. I can’t see the X behind a dot, or a pin. I found centering the dot much easier and less stressful if I select my dot size based on the ring, or halo around it, and focus on that. My first assumption using this method was that the smaller the halo, the more accurate I would be, but I actually do better with a smaller dot and less halo, and contrast. I’ve found that sweet spot by trial and error. I’ve tried rings as well, but went back to a dot. Personal preference.


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## pathogan (Jul 7, 2015)

So I tried shooting with a ring last night. I really didn't care for it at first but the longer I shot the more comfortable it became. I think I'm going to keep using it, at least until the anxiety I get while aiming goes away. Then I may try and go back to a dot....or maybe not. :wink:


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

for me I just use a x4 power scope with a circle and no clarifier because I need glasses anyway. I just try to look at the center of the x and if I do that it goes there . for me if I use I dot or pin I always move it to see the x and then put it back on center,i am a type A personality so sometimes it can be hard to do anything right while aiming. type B people can shoot any type sight and do well.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

^^^ This. Pete describes my reasons for using just a circle to a tee. Circle, 4x lens and no clarifier works well for my psyche.


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