# My Best Advice for New Compound Finger-Shooters.....



## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

agreed . infact describes what i've been looking for,,,for monthes .


----------



## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

Wisper, they are calling you loud and clear get them out and use them.


----------



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

*You may have a point, Jerry!*



jerrytee said:


> Wisper, they are calling you loud and clear get them out and use them.


That "whispering" does seem to get louder some days!


----------



## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

qoute 
Even though I currently shoot an Apex, I shot long, round-wheel Hoyts for many, many years FIRST......made the transition to an Apex much easier.....

So , never ever having shot one of those " M " bows , what do you see as the benefits from the Apex vs the 2 cammers or the 1 1/2 cam bows and maybe visa-versa ???????????


----------



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

ia bhtr said:


> qoute
> Even though I currently shoot an Apex, I shot long, round-wheel Hoyts for many, many years FIRST......made the transition to an Apex much easier.....
> 
> So , never ever having shot one of those " M " bows , what do you see as the benefits from the Apex vs the 2 cammers or the 1 1/2 cam bows and maybe visa-versa ???????????



ia bhtr,

Very good question, my friend......only two (2) benefits have I seen with the Apex over the long, round-wheel Hoyts or the RedMan/Barnsdale:

1) Apex is MUCH faster than any round-wheel bow (about 25-30 fps faster with same draw-weight/draw- length/arrow- 
weight).......yes, that's a bunch! 

2) Apex is noticeably quieter, also......

HOWEVER, the gentle draw-force curve of the round-wheels is very comfortable......easy on the arms/shoulders/back for extended shooting-sessions.....

As far as "real-life, in-hand" accuracy for FINGER-SHOOTING, I would have to give a SLIGHT edge to the Hoyts and Barnsdale.....I will occasionally pull a shot slightly right or left with the Apex more often than I do with the long, round-wheel bows.....

Everything about your form and shot-execution (especially with fingers), must be just right with the Apex.....if it is, it will reward you with an "x"......if not, the Apex is not quite as forgiving (with fingers) as the other bows I've mentioned, and a "miss" will be a little further away from the "x"..... 

Does that answer help any?


----------



## tothepoint (Dec 22, 2006)

I shot long A2A bows since the early 80s. Today I shot a Mathews conquest apex, hoyt proelite and bowtech constitution. I ordered 2 constitutions 1 for the Mrs and 1 for myself. If your set on a bow that's 44" or > then choices are pretty slim, for the most part the Oneida pro eagle or Hoyt Montega are it in 2007. It seems that every other Mfg has dropped any bows longer than 43". At jerrytees recomendation I searched far and wide to shoot an Oneida pro eagle but couldn't find a dealer within 200 miles that carried it. Of my 3 top choice bows the connie won hands down. Unfortunately this isn't 1984 where 80% of all bows made were longer than 42". So you may need to adjust your requirements criteria a bit.

Shoot everything, buy what you feel comfortable with.


----------



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

tothepoint said:


> I shot long A2A bows since the early 80s. Today I shot a Mathews conquest apex, hoyt proelite and bowtech constitution. I ordered 2 constitutions 1 for the Mrs and 1 for myself. If your set on a bow that's 44" or > then choices are pretty slim, for the most part the Oneida pro eagle or Hoyt Montega are it in 2007. It seems that every other Mfg has dropped any bows longer than 43". At jerrytees recomendation I searched far and wide to shoot an Oneida pro eagle but couldn't find a dealer within 200 miles that carried it. Of my 3 top choice bows the connie won hands down. Unfortunately this isn't 1984 where 80% of all bows made were longer than 42". So you may need to adjust your requirements criteria a bit.
> 
> Shoot everything, buy what you feel comfortable with.



You're right......no doubt today's selection is very slim.....but I would add that Dave Barnsdale makes a 43.5", a 44", a 45.5" and a 47.5" bow...all with deflex risers......all greater than 8" brace-height.......and all with 50%, 55%, 60% or 65% let-off options, at the customers choice......and each bow is set-up for the exact draw-length and exact draw-weight the customer requests! 

Can't get much better than that, folks!  :thumbs_up 

(Also, I should have mentioned that if a guy opts for a 2-5 year old bow, then all the Hoyt Oasis, Aspen and ProTec models become options, too!
Just have custom cables/strings made-up for them and they'll likely shoot as good as when they came off the shelf new!)


----------



## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Back in the early ninties, before health problems, I shot a few 270's 14 target hunter rounds with a 198 FPS Provantage with 60% Prowheels and a 10 1/2" BH. This is still the best bow ever made for fingers. Speed don't mean squat for target..... I still have four of them and a 46" Barnsdale Classis. If I wasn't araid of getting smacked in the head by a broken riser, I'd probably still shoot them .... Would like to have a new bow, but there's absolutely nothing better out there that I don't already have or would even consider buying, besides Santa brought me two stents for my right coronary artery last week and I figure I won't have the bucks anyway.....sure would like to try an apex/conquest, but I really don't think I could shoot it with a clicker anyway.

Dude, as far as what you consider the properties of the best finger bow, you're absolutely right.


----------



## tothepoint (Dec 22, 2006)

Texasguy

My mistake. My original respone was incorrect. I thought you were asking us for our opinion. I didn't realize you were launching a testemonial for your favioite bow Mfg. I've never shot a Redman Barnsdale bow, in fact up until 2003 when Barnsdale bougth the remaining inventory of red man bows from Loyd Napier there was no such thing as a Barnsdale bow. We're all happy that you like the bow, and thanks for sharing its fine shooting characteristics with us. So I guess my question is, if it's so great why do you choose (continue) to shoot an Apex over the red man/barnsdale??


----------



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

tothepoint said:


> Texasguy
> 
> My mistake. My original respone was incorrect. I thought you were asking us for our opinion. I didn't realize you were launching a testemonial for your favioite bow Mfg. I've never shot a Redman Barnsdale bow, in fact up until 2003 when Barnsdale bougth the remaining inventory of red man bows from Loyd Napier there was no such thing as a Barnsdale bow. We're all happy that you like the bow, and thanks for sharing its fine shooting characteristics with us. So I guess my question is, if it's so great why do you choose (continue) to shoot an Apex over the red man/barnsdale??



Yes, I can see where my enthusiasm for the Redman/Barnsdale's could certainly sound like a "testimonial"!  I guess we can all get a little overly-enthusiastic about our favorites from time to time, eh? :embara: 

A couple reasons why I currently shoot an Apex:

1) With the l-o-n-g valley and "spongy" wall that all round-wheel bows 
have, over the last couple years I had developed the nasty habit 
of "creeping" (easing slightly forward of my solid anchor just before 
releasing the string). A round-wheel bow allows you to do that, and get away with it.

With the very, very short valley and rock-solid wall of the Apex, it is 
virtually impossible to "creep" without the string exploding from your 
fingers!  

After 8 months now of shooting the Apex, I think I'm well on the way to 
curing the "creep" issue.

2) The Apex forces you to have very solid, repeatable form, also. It is also a 
very quiet bow to shoot, with less recoil than that of the long ata wheel-
bows (though that was never really objectionable to me, anyway, with 
the Hoyts or Redman/Barnsdale).

So there you have it.....someday, if and/or when I ever return to shooting my Redman/Barnsdale, I will no doubt benefit from my time with the Apex in terms of being a more consistent archer and will likely reap the benefits in higher scores (maybe I'll start averaging in the upper 290's indoors, rather than the low 290's that I'm at now).....:tongue: 

Or, maybe I'll stick with the Apex.....hard to say just yet..... 

I met Lloyd Napier when a buddy and I drove up to his shop in Sapulpa, Oklahoma to pick-up our original Redman's....very interesting fella, to say the least.....I'd heard that Loyd became very ill a couple of years ago.....not sure how he is doing today?

Actually, Dave Barnsdale had always built the limbs for all Redman bows nearly the entire time Lloyd owned Native American Archery.....so I consider Redman bows to have been "half-Barnsdale's" the whole time, anyway! Dave just builds the other half now, also! :wink:


----------



## capool (Aug 5, 2003)

TexasGuy said:


> If I had to narrow-down my best recommendations for a finger-compound to a brand-new compound finger-shooter to just four (4) bullet-points, they would be:
> 
> 
> 1) 44" ata or longer
> ...


Can you tell me why The worst shooting bow I own is a protech lxpro cam.5 47 in ata 8 inch brace height?


----------



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

capool said:


> Can you tell me why The worst shooting bow I own is a protech lxpro cam.5 47 in ata 8 inch brace height?


I can sure give you my opinion, my friend! :wink: 

The ONLY problem with that set-up (for fingers) is the cam and 1/2......if that bow had round-wheels (energy wheels or accuwheels on it, instead of those very finger-sensitive cam and 1/2's), I'll bet $100 you could shoot that bow GREAT!  

Go ahead and test my theory.....swap-out those harsh, unforgiving cams with wheels and re-string/re-cable that ProTec....with those long, excellent LXPro limbs, you would have a GREAT finger-bow.....

In fact, Hoyt SPECIFICALLY MADE THAT BOW FOR FINGER-SHOOTERS TO BE SHOT WITH WHEELS OR WHEEL AND 1/2!!!!

(and I'll bet money UncleGus and Jorge Oliveira would back me up on that!) :wink:


----------



## skydog (Sep 20, 2004)

*my thoughts*

I think you are right about the perfect finger bow. If you don't mind me saying this is what is wrong with archery today one size fits all archery get everybody in a release and let them go. heck i have been in some shops that don't even carry tabs. I long for the good ol days when it was archery not bow hunting{i am not bashing hunting we need that too!} I look at my old stuff and i remember having 2 or 3 flights of finger shooters in a tourney.
now when i go i am watched like a hawk {look there is a guy shooting fingers and he has no sight on his bow}


----------



## capool (Aug 5, 2003)

TexasGuy said:


> I can sure give you my opinion, my friend! :wink:
> 
> The ONLY problem with that set-up (for fingers) is the cam and 1/2......if that bow had round-wheels (energy wheels or accuwheels on it, instead of those very finger-sensitive cam and 1/2's), I'll bet $100 you could shoot that bow GREAT!
> 
> ...


wouldn't you have to change limbs too put wheels on it.


----------



## tothepoint (Dec 22, 2006)

Skydog you and I are on exactly the same page. Forgive me for straying from the topic at hand but back in the 80 when I was heavily into archery (target, 3D and bowhunting) all with the same bow. I was usually competing against anywhere from 30-90 finger shooters at local events. As for hunting, what hunting, just what the heck has happened to hunting. One of this christmas's biggest selling (hunting) items was the game camera. What ever happened to reading signs and tracking game. Nowdays so called hunters pre-hunt an area by going out where they think game is, setp a camera and leave the automated camera then takes pics of everything that walks in front of it showing the animal, along with the time and date shot, a couple of higher end units will also provide a GPS coordinate. Then they recover the cameral and study the captured images. So before these guys ever step one foot out of the truck on the day of the hunt they've allready picked out which animal they're going to shoot where it travels and it routine. I laughed hysterically when a young lad told me I was jealous beacuse I didn't have this technology back in my day. I laughed and asked him if he wanted to go hunting with me the next day. He said no because he'd never hunted that area before. I laughed even harder and said "I thought you're a hunter". He simply didn't get it. I had to explain to him hunting is about excerising your skills not your technology.


----------



## Karoojager (Dec 20, 2005)

Tothepoint,
You say exactly what I think.
In 1998 I was for fife weeks in the wilderness of Alaska ( Telaquana lake ) only with a small game license in my pocket and my bow. This was all what I needed, no mobile phone no gps and no other technical instruments. I hunted only for eating, no trophy hunting my victims was grouse, red salmon and squirrels. Fife weeks later a pilot from Alaska Air Taxy came and pic me up. This hunt was the best I ever had, because it was a time with simply things.
In opposite to this, I accept the hunt with technical tools, because I must not use this.


----------



## tothepoint (Dec 22, 2006)

A pleasure to know ya buddy......


----------



## Schriner (Feb 1, 2005)

All I can say is Martin Razor with elite limbs 45.5 inches long an 8.75 inches of brace height and plenty of speed.


----------



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

Schriner said:


> All I can say is Martin Razor with elite limbs 45.5 inches long an 8.75 inches of brace height and plenty of speed.



Yep, I've also heard that is a great finger-bow.....a guy that frequents the General Forum on AT (goes by "HollowPoint") shoots one with fingers and is a national staff shooter for Martin, I believe....

He is absolutely deadly with that thing.....shoots barebow/no sights, too!


----------



## Jorge Oliveira (Aug 13, 2004)

TexasGuy said:


> I
> 
> (and I'll bet money UncleGus and Jorge Oliveira would back me up on that!) :wink:


Me?

No I don't!

Just joking. Maybe the wheels are a bit better, but the ProTec LX is a wonderful finger's bow even with the old Command cams..
But even so one has to use the back muscles (a compound is a big invitation not to use them).

I say to the guys that ask about archery (a VERY unknown sport over here) that the main difference between a bow and a rifle (they are not familiar with Xbows either) is that the archer's body is the barrel

So, all the stability/repeatability of a shot depends on the back providing support for the arms.


----------



## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*round wheel*

RedMan.......jeezs it's been years since i've seen one of those!


----------



## luckyhit (Dec 8, 2006)

Schriner said:


> All I can say is Martin Razor with elite limbs 45.5 inches long an 8.75 inches of brace height and plenty of speed.


Schriner, too bad they don't make the Razor anymore, I hear lots of good things about it. What eccentrics were on that bow?


----------



## rolofsj (Jan 4, 2007)

Well that has been some interesting reading. I am now glancing over my shoulder at my '92 Hoyt Provantage with "energy wheel" and planning to get those new cables ordered! I still have the owners manual with Chuck Adams picture all through it. He always has a Reflex in his hands now. I too am looking for a new compound to shoot with fingers. Has anybody shot the Reflex Caribou (ATA 45 3/4 brace height 8 3/4). I have never had the opportunity to shoot a Reflex.


----------



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

rolofsj said:


> Well that has been some interesting reading. I am now glancing over my shoulder at my '92 Hoyt Provantage with "energy wheel" and planning to get those new cables ordered! I still have the owners manual with Chuck Adams picture all through it. He always has a Reflex in his hands now. I too am looking for a new compound to shoot with fingers. Has anybody shot the Reflex Caribou (ATA 45 3/4 brace height 8 3/4). I have never had the opportunity to shoot a Reflex.



The Reflex Caribou is an outstanding finger-bow.....not real fast (no round-wheel bows are "fast" by today's hard-cam standards), but very smooth and comfortable to draw and VERY accurate!  

However, they have been discontinued in the 2007 line-up, so you would need to find a 2006 model to test-shoot and see if you like it......if you do, look for a nearly-new 2006 model (or even 2005).....I would suggest re-cabling and re-stringing with Winners Choice or one of the other excellent custom cable/string makers.......:darkbeer:


----------



## Hollowpoint (Jul 10, 2003)

luckyhit said:


> Schriner, too bad they don't make the Razor anymore, I hear lots of good things about it. What eccentrics were on that bow?


Now they make the Scepter4, it is 43.5" and has dual cams that are a bit softer than the Nitrous cams were.
It is a great shooting bow.......but as of yet my Razor's are not for sale.  
Maybe it's just me, but I shoot better with a hard back wall than I do with soft round wheels. I believe the solid wall and shorter valley forces you to be more consistent beacause it will not allow you to over or under draw the bow.
Just my .02


----------



## Jorge Oliveira (Aug 13, 2004)

*Welcome, Hollowpoint!*

Nice to have you on board!

By next month I expect my Scepter 4 to be here. Let's see how it shoots (with me holding it, who knows...)


----------



## sammyg (Jul 29, 2006)

I have been reading everyone's responses and all have made good points. I have been a finger shooter ever since I started shooting a bow. I think alot of people that try it , give it up to soon. It does take alot of practice to master the technique of getting off the string. But again, it takes the right equipment, there are very few bows made today for fingershooters. I think also that most of todays archers are what I call speedfreaks, they are too worried about how fast their bow will shoot. And anyone knows that the faster you launch an arrow, the more critical the set-up and adjustment of the bow will be. Everything needs to be in a sense , perfect.


----------

