# Stabilizer cost is ridiculous



## SemperF (Nov 22, 2009)

If you build it they will come, especially if the price is right.......


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

You're about to hear about the special high $$ carbon tubes.... I'm just saying... :noidea:



And remember, that amount you paid is more than covering the cost of materials, production costs, overhead and profit... It has to cover advertising as well.. :thumb:


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

JawsDad said:


> You're about to hear about the special high $$ carbon tubes.... I'm just saying... :noidea:
> 
> 
> 
> And remember, that amount you paid is more than covering the cost of materials, production costs, overhead and profit... It has to cover advertising as well.. :thumb:


The carbon tube that I use for the math is the same wall thickness as a carbon bicycle uses for their seat post, will support a 250lb person and weights only .066 pounds per foot. I can not imagine needing anything stronger, stiffer or lighter.

Keith


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

KStover said:


> The carbon tube that I use for the math is the same wall thickness as a carbon bicycle uses for their seat post, will support a 250lb person and weights only .066 pounds per foot. I can not imagine needing anything stronger or stiffer.
> 
> Keith


I hear you.. I'm just pointing out what I feel will be the point of contention to follow.. 

I'm not a machinist so I have no experience in working with the machine work. But I have put some effort into researching carbon tubes for a similar, as well as another unrelated purpose. I've seen what appears to be some pretty high strength carbon tubes available for a suprisingly affordable amount.


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## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

Interesting...


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Must have something to do with that old supply and demand business. Demand is very high right now.

Just yesterday got my new freestyle stab in the male from Mark Malone (Xtremestabilization). Not yet shown on his website, but it is the stab you describe and everyone wants, for a lot less money. Also has a slotted endcap that contains the stacked wts so that the rod doesn't grow in length. Can't accurately compare the stab to anything else cause I haven't shot anything else, but I am very pleased.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

First of all.... What the heck does this have to do with field? :noidea: oh that's right....nothing :doh:

Who cares really.....if you think it's too much then don't pay it. PERIOD. 

There are much bigger "rip offs" in arechery then the one your crying about ..... How much are hinges made by Scott, Stan, Carter and TRU Ball?

I bet it doesn't cost close to $1400 to build a Vantage Elite actually I know it doesn't. If you buy a set if spirals...they are right around $100 for a NEW set...a set if limbs is about $230... A set of limb pockets is around $50....so I guess that Hoyt is also making a killing since I know the riser isn't costing them $1000 to make. 

I know that CBEs new sight is about $350+ I know that doesn't cost them close to that much to make....

How much of a killing is Easton making on X10s.....how about CX with their Nano XR and Pro?

If you can make it....or think you can...sell your rods and make your own. Pretty simple really


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## scclimber (May 2, 2007)

not to pick on BH, but since you used a vantage elite as an example, i'll expand on it. no, the vantage elite doesn't cost 1400 to build. 1400 is msrp on that bow. i think most shops would sell one for 1200 or 1300 and be happy about it. 1000 or 1100 of that would be dealer cost. the manufacturer's rep makes a percentage off of that as well. lets just say 900 makes it back to hoyt. some of that goes to the folks that answers the phone when we place orders, some of that goes to the people that run the machines. i would say the majority of the money goes to pay for the assets of the company including multiple half million dollar cnc machines. oh yeah, then there are raw materials. anybody priced a full page ad in a national mag lately? what about a 30 second tv spot. 
contrary to what most people think, nobody is getting rich in this industry. i am absolutly amazed by the folks that see me sell a 1500 bow setup and think i pocket 1500 bucks. a 1500 bow sell won't pay my phone bill.


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## deadeyedickwc (Jan 10, 2010)

if you can get it and the people will pay thats the american way isnt it!


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

scclimber said:


> not to pick on BH, but since you used a vantage elite as an example, i'll expand on it. no, the vantage elite doesn't cost 1400 to build. 1400 is msrp on that bow. i think most shops would sell one for 1200 or 1300 and be happy about it. 1000 or 1100 of that would be dealer cost. the manufacturer's rep makes a percentage off of that as well. lets just say 900 makes it back to hoyt. some of that goes to the folks that answers the phone when we place orders, some of that goes to the people that run the machines. i would say the majority of the money goes to pay for the assets of the company including multiple half million dollar cnc machines. oh yeah, then there are raw materials. anybody priced a full page ad in a national mag lately? what about a 30 second tv spot.
> contrary to what most people think, nobody is getting rich in this industry. i am absolutly amazed by the folks that see me sell a 1500 bow setup and think i pocket 1500 bucks. a 1500 bow sell won't pay my phone bill.



I think Hornet knows that he was just using it as a comparison to show the mark up over raw materials for other items on the market.

That is one of the biggest misconceptions in this sport. First off most people don't realize that most of the archery manufactures are nothing more than a small home based business operating out of a garage, or a rented space. Most are run by a very small number of people (in many cases no more than 2 or 3)
Even though mark ups can appear to be high in many cases the manufacture makes less off his product than dealers or shops make for selling it. We have overhead to cover, materials to stock, machines to buy and maintain, employees to pay, taxes to pay. Then factor in returns, products that don't pass quality inspection and have to be scrapped and rebuilt. In many cases manufactures on these small levels have to strive to break even some months. We have to be able to make a living doing what we do, and prices have to reflect both profits, and losses in order for us to do so.
Sure a stabilizer could be built with under 100.00 in raw material, but factor in the electricity used, the man power used, the machines that had to be bought, and maintained in order to build the stabilizer, taxes, ect...... then figure the dealer you are buying it off of needs to mark it up around 30% to make his profit to pay his overhead, and feed his familly, it all starts adding up fast.

If your just building 1 for yourself or for your buddies, and you have access to the machines needed to take on the task then yes it seems much cheaper. But if your building them to make a living, and building 100's of bars per day you need multiple machines that your going to have to buy, and maintain (that alone can cost several million dollars ) you have to mark up the product enough to cover the cost of production (not just materials) and make enough to pay the bills, and put food on the table.


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## ebonarcher (Mar 2, 2008)

Just remember that because you can make it, does not mean you can sell it.
If you infringe on an existing patent you'll have a new worry than just over paying.
I'm not trying to accuse you or threaten you. I do know that it seems anything that's machined for archery seems to be done at a premium as though we the buyers are too stupid to make our own and over charged by a lot.
Not only does it keep use limited in what we can afford but the excessively high prices are limiting what many small shops can carry because they cannot afford to stock more than just a few items.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Just to go with my last post. I just went back, and checked my books for the last year. Over the course of the year I only kept 27.9% of my total income. 
31.8% went to cover materials, and the other 40.3% went to machines, tools, shipping, promotions, advertising, charity, taxes, ect....... just to keep the business running.
So that should give a little glance at why companies must mark up their products. The percentage we actually get to keep for ourselves is very small compared to the percentage it costs us to get the product built, and on your bow. Like stated above no one here is getting rich off anybody, we are simply trying to make a living no different than the next guy.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Brown Hornet said:


> First of all.... What the heck does this have to do with field? :noidea: oh that's right....nothing :doh:


It has more to do with field than a lot of your post/comments. I could go on for hours about you and your NC friends posting things that have nothing to do with field archery such as Segway racing – Do You all smell something/ (it was about apple pie!) – national and state indoor scores - are money orders save?. You went on and on about fixing your quiver, how’s that have any more to do with field than a stabilizer does? 

I can make the same stabilizer as the popular guy for 20.4% of what he’s selling it for. 
I think that is a lot more interesting than your 4 comments on the apple pie thread.

I’m Ok with someone drifting off of the field archery topic, and you do it often. So why are you being such a hypocrite? 
I'll come give you some! 

Keith


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

KStover said:


> It has more to do with field than a lot of your post/comments. I could go on for hours about you and your NC friends posting things that have nothing to do with field archery such as Segway racing – Do You all smell something/ (it was about apple pie!) – national and state indoor scores - are money orders save?. You went on and on about fixing your quiver, how’s that have any more to do with field than a stabilizer does?
> 
> I can make the same stabilizer as the popular guy for 20.4% of what he’s selling it for.
> I think that is a lot more interesting than your 4 comments on the apple pie thread.
> ...


what does fixing my quiver have to do with field.....hello it's my field quiver. And I made the quiver BETTER for use in the game we play......

I didn't post in the segway thread.....or in the vast majority of the NC threads....so ya might want to get your facts straight. But they are still actually threads about shooting and having fun in archery. Not *****ing about price.

the Apple Pie threads weren't about apple pie.....they were about switching to Hoyt......:doh:

if you look at my post with one eye closed and the other half covered your gonna miss a ton of archery talk......


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Brown Hornet said:


> what does fixing my quiver have to do with field.....hello it's my field quiver. And I made the quiver BETTER for use in the game we play......
> 
> I didn't post in the segway thread.....or in the vast majority of the NC threads....so ya might want to get your facts straight. But they are still actually threads about shooting and having fun in archery. Not *****ing about price.
> 
> ...


You don't make your smart arse comments to the other folks because they are your friends.
Your a hypocrite and you know it. 

Keith


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

ebonarcher said:


> Just remember that because you can make it, does not mean you can sell it.
> If you infringe on an existing patent you'll have a new worry than just over paying.
> I'm not trying to accuse you or threaten you. I do know that it seems anything that's machined for archery seems to be done at a premium as though we the buyers are too stupid to make our own and over charged by a lot.
> Not only does it keep use limited in what we can afford but the excessively high prices are limiting what many small shops can carry because they cannot afford to stock more than just a few items.


I may start making them. I don’t see patents being an issue. There is not a patent on the concept of using carbon fiber, aluminum and stainless to make a stabilizer. Of course there would be design changes. I’d give a lifetime guarantee, if you damaged it in any way I’d replace it. Say you ran over with a truck it I’d still replace it.

As far as overhead, I have hardly any. I managed to retire three years ago at the age of 49. I can sell them at 40% of what the other folks do and still be doubling my money. Hell I need something to keep me busy. 

Keith


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

KStover said:


> You don't make your smart arse comments to the other folks because they are your friends.
> Your a hypocrite and you know it.
> 
> Keith


Did my post really ruin your day or something :noidea:

Sorry but there was nothing in there that should have you acting like I pissed in your Wheaties this morning. Or are you just one of those guys that likes to complain or be pissy and not like it when someone else has something to say that doesn't fall in line with what your complaining about?

and do you really not feel like a "friend" sorry but my "friends" would have gotten the same type of response.....guess you didn't read the recent response that I had not agreeing with my "friend" Bowgod....or my "friend" field14.....

either way my original post wasn't an attack on you in anyway......but it did shoot a hole in what your complaining about.

If you don't like it tough chit.....it's my opinion and not yours if you don't like it then state why you feel different or that you don't agree.....but don't go crying. that is best for the General and Bowhunting forum threads.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Brown Hornet said:


> Did my post really ruin your day or something :noidea:
> 
> Sorry but there was nothing in there that should have you acting like I pissed in your Wheaties this morning. Or are you just one of those guys that likes to complain or be pissy and not like it when someone else has something to say that doesn't fall in line with what your complaining about?
> 
> ...


I do believe that you are a hypocrite. How is your quiver more associated to field archery than my stabilizer? Your comment “hello it's my field quiver” is stupid, HELLO IT’S MY STABILIZER THAT I WILL USE FOR FIELD. Somehow you fell that your quiver is more important than my stabilizer. Or switching to a Hoyt is more related to field archery than my stabilizer issue. Who are you to decide what should be posted and what should not? You have this "holier than thou" attitude.
And if you state that you don’t post any non field related comments on this forum then your full of chit. 

So when you call me out with a comment like “First of all.... What the heck does this have to do with field? oh that's right....nothing ” 

Of course I’m going to call of on it. You sure as heck would not let that comment go if someone made to you, which reinforces my hypocrite comment.

Keith


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## AR_Headhunter (Aug 17, 2009)

Keith
Good job in making your stab for a decent price! Don't sweat those who defend huge profits in various products. I wish I had all the equipment to make one like you did because I would make & sell them so more average Joe's could have good equipment at reasonable prices. Hats off to you on getting it done! BTW Do not sweat the know it alls with huge post counts.:wink:


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

im guessing its more to pay there workers and still have profit of there own? just guessing.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

ebonarcher said:


> Just remember that because you can make it, does not mean you can sell it.
> *If you infringe on an existing patent you'll have a new worry than just over paying.*I'm not trying to accuse you or threaten you. I do know that it seems anything that's machined for archery seems to be done at a premium as though we the buyers are too stupid to make our own and over charged by a lot.
> Not only does it keep use limited in what we can afford but the excessively high prices are limiting what many small shops can carry because they cannot afford to stock more than just a few items.


idk anymore. there about 6 different companys on here that look like there selling the same stabilizer. maybe the end weight are a tad different but thats it. carbon with end weights. alum with end weights. but then again idk. maybe something is different


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## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

At this point, the B-Stinger Premier bars cost more than 2 bows I currently have for sale. 

I just tried the Premier bar today for the first time, and it really is scary how much steadier the hold becomes, though. I'm still just having a tough time justifying a purchase of that magnitude.


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## APAnTN (Mar 17, 2007)

there already is other stab builders making a ultra stiff bar for a fraction of the cost:wink:


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

When you do decide to start nocking off folks keep in mind a few things that you will not have to pay, or may not pay, that they do, since you would be riding their coat tails....

-11% Federal Excise Tax for the Pittman Robertson Act, which goes to each state's DNR for funding. That's right, 11% goes to the feds right off the top of each sale, no ifs and or buts about it. And still yet....
-Don't forget to pay your federal taxes.
-State, County or City taxes
---heck, just in taxes you will loose at least 30% of your sales price right off the bat, and before all is said and done it is probably closer to 45%+ of the sale goes to your favorite Uncle....
-Travel expenses to attend shows and shoots. Yup, believe it or not those are not free.
-The actual cost of getting booth space at those shoots, again, the Archery Orgs do not hand those over to anyone.
-Advertising. Folks gotta know about your product, and why your product is better than the rest, again, real $$$$$ here.
-This is archery, so with that said your will have a pro-staff......gotta find some way to get paid for that stuff.
-Insurance? Yup, gotta have it for liability reasons.
-CPA to handle all the taxes above?
-Gotta keep the lights on, so throw some coin that way.
-R&D, yup, that costs money. Of course if you just knock off another product there is no R&D, someone else did it for you.
-Got any employees? You will need to pay them, and pay workers comp insurance for them also.

So, now, how much of that 165$ do you have left? Heck, if you do things legally, which most garage rip off companies do not do, you will be in the hole before you know it. 

In business there is more to pay for than the simple cost of materials, all the other stuff is the cost of doing business. Of course, rip off companies can and do get around most of the other costs by riding coat tails and not paying taxes......


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

And, of course, those CNC machines were free and never require any maintenance.  All the chemical element components to create a human body can be bought for less than $10, but I'd like to think that the end product is worth more than the sum of its parts.



reylamb said:


> When you do decide to start nocking off folks keep in mind a few things that you will not have to pay, or may not pay, that they do, since you would be riding their coat tails....
> 
> -11% Federal Excise Tax for the Pittman Robertson Act, which goes to each state's DNR for funding. That's right, 11% goes to the feds right off the top of each sale, no ifs and or buts about it. And still yet....
> -Don't forget to pay your federal taxes.
> ...


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Yes, all of the fixed and variable costs and then you have to get a Jesse, Cuz, Reo, or a Dietmar to shoot it and win. Then you can charge the big bucks. If I had a dime for everyone of the zillion killer B's I saw at Louisville this past weekend, I could have probably afforded two hotdogs and a bottle of water with the ridiculous prices for food there......That's another story.....


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## scclimber (May 2, 2007)

same thing with strings and cables. i get guys all the time wanting to know why i charge "so much" for custom strings and cables when such and such on AT is selling their set for $40. i guess 40 bucks is pretty good if you are looking for an excuse to get away from the family but, honestly, my time is better spent doing other stuff for that amount.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

scclimber said:


> same thing with strings and cables. i get guys all the time wanting to know why i charge "so much" for custom strings and cables when such and such on AT is selling their set for $40. i guess 40 bucks is pretty good if you are looking for an excuse to get away from the family but, honestly, my time is better spent doing other stuff for that amount.


I heard that. I barely make enough to get by at 65 or 75.00 a set I don't see how guys can sell them for 40.00. My guess is that it is not their full time income, but they don't realize that charging for their hobby is hurting those of us who rely on that income to support families. By the time I cover overhead selling a set for 40.00 would only leave me with like 6.00 a set. It takes about 2 hours to do a set so that's 3.00 per hour, kinda hard to get by on that kind of paycheck.


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

Then by all means build and sell away. The more the merrier.



Go as far as to put a round hub on the end and see if patents are really an issue.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Just remember if you make it be prepared for the government to come along and take your item and give them out to poor under privelidged archers. Isn't this the NEW AMERICAN way?? ukey:


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

Rattleman said:


> Just remember if you make it be prepared for the government to come along and take your item and give them out to poor under privelidged archers. Isn't this the NEW AMERICAN way?? ukey:


That made me laugh at first, then it sunk in


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

sharkred7 said:


> That made me laugh at first, then it sunk in


Sorry but kinda scary :mg:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

KStover said:


> I do believe that you are a hypocrite. How is your quiver more associated to field archery than my stabilizer? Your comment “hello it's my field quiver” is stupid, HELLO IT’S MY STABILIZER THAT I WILL USE FOR FIELD. Somehow you fell that your quiver is more important than my stabilizer. Or switching to a Hoyt is more related to field archery than my stabilizer issue. Who are you to decide what should be posted and what should not? You have this "holier than thou" attitude.
> And if you state that you don’t post any non field related comments on this forum then your full of chit.
> 
> So when you call me out with a comment like “First of all.... What the heck does this have to do with field? oh that's right....nothing ”
> ...


don't really care.....your crying about cost.....not actually about the bars or using them or setting them up....that's my point. 

does someone want to explain to him the part in red :wink:

I didn't say that I don't post stuff that doesn't relate to field all the time.....don't put words in my mouth.....like I said don't pick and choose.

do I really care if you think I am a hypocrite :nono: 

don't start a thread like this one and expect someone to not agree with you.....and either way it's no reason to be jumping up and down stomping around like Cartman.

funny how out of my entire post all you got out of it was the first line.......:zip:

Like I said don't read my post with one eye closed or pick and choose what you want to read and respond to. I meant not harm in post.....if you were offended....then so be it. But I did close with a  It's a discussion....about stuff that really means NOTHING in the grand scheme of things......


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## Archerynut008 (Jul 1, 2009)

It seems a lot of accesories these days are getting spendier. Supply and demand? Or just demand? A certain brand quiver cost about 60-70 dollars when it first came out. Now they are priced at $120-$130. Almost doubled in price because they've become so popular. The price seems to go up every yr. People are willing to pay and they know it so they up the price.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> does someone want to explain to him the part in red :
> 
> 
> > Don't know what you're talking about Mr. Grandmasterchiefpoohbauandinventorofthefieldforum?
> ...


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> Don't know what you're talking about Mr. Grandmasterchiefpoohbauandinventorofthefieldforum?
> 
> 
> I don't disagree with the OP, but it isn't just stabs. The whole thing is getting ridiculously expensive. I haven't tried out a Bstinger side bar yet because I didn't want to commit any more money to Blair. Then I realized I had a 12" stab that was more than capable of holding up a full 17 ounces.


:chortle: Oh I agree.....archery stuff is steep or getting steep or whatever direction you want to go with it....

But it is across the board.....but I would rather pay $230 for a stab that I can keep pretty much as long as I want and have it work just as good as the day I bought it 10 years from now and it's a product that can and will actually help you to shoot better, then spend $300-360 for a sight that doesn't help me shoot any better  .....or say $135 for a set of strings from WC that you would pretty much throw away every year or have to set in the corner if you have to switch cams....or change limbs...or heck decide that you really don't like the bow and sell it within 6 months  heck there are better strings out there or just as good for half the price....and on top of that they are all made from the same materials.:embara:


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## short-n-fast (Dec 4, 2004)

*back to the topic......*

*
Stabilizer cost is ridiculous

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After paying $340 for the hottest name brand stabilizers, a 36” and two 12” vbars with weights. I got to thinking, and got a little POed, about the prices I just paid. My brother and I own all the CNC machines I need to make my own. So I got the cost of carbon fiber rod, aluminum and stainless steel. The aluminum to make endcaps for the carbon rod and the stainless for the weights. 

I could sell all three stabilizers for $165 and make a good solid profit. Now I’m not talking about a garage built POS, but the exact duplicate of theirs! Made with a Bridgeport CNC mill and lathe.

The bigger stabilizer manufactures are sticking it to us. If I can sell them for $165, and make good money (I figured $80 per hour for machine labor into the equation) . Then just how much are they making? You know they are making them for a lot less than I can. I’m sure that they are paying a lot less for their materials. They are making a huge markup!

Keith* 





any time I can jump on a machine and build something that is going to save me money , im doing it ,,,,,I have made all my own side stabs a weights, (cut up and old cartel). I'll stick with the doinker stuff up front ,,, ive shot the stinger stuff ,,and really don't notice a bunch of difference.......know the dish on the other hand is a different story...made one of those weights up for myself also for my hunter setup. I make up weight for myself and freinds also . 
Made some end caps for the stinger weights to cover the screw up also..... 

I have played with the idea of making my own and selling ,,, got prices on Carbon rod , machine time and such,,,,, but ill just do it for fun ,, and maybe sell a few weights and end caps to buy other archery goodies.....

top left :1.25x .250 = 1.2 ounces
lower are replica stinger weights = 1 onces


black caps are made from DELRIN , or aluminum , and are designed with the same angles the the stingers have , and screw on flush...ya just have to have 5 threads hanging out to attach.

the prices that are being charged are high in my opinion ,,, are bstingers worth it.......IMO and a few of my freinds that went back to Doinker....no:embara:but the pros are winning with them.........:shade:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

You can make cheaper, but don't you want to follow the crowd and be invogue and shoot what the elite pros are shooting? What will people think????? :mg: All jokes aside, Keith, when you get started, I'll be glad to buy the first one.


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

It is difficult to really articulate what you mean and how you mean it with the written word. There's no accounting for someone joking or maybe stressing certain parts of a word to imply meaning vocally. No body language to visually see and take meaning from. Someone may post something meaning it to be a lighthearted jab and end up really ruffling some feathers.

I have done it (not deliberately), others have done it to me (not deliberately). It's gonna happen and all we can do is try to understand where that person is coming from before flaming them.

That being said- I do agree with the original Topic, that Archery equipment is insanely priced. But the consumer drives this. If company X offers a piece of equipment for $300 _and we buy it_. . .then that is the standard. If that company offers it up and _NOBODY_ buys it. Then they have two choices, either drop the price, or fold up shop and make something else (preferably more reasonably priced).

BTW- I am a huge advocate of people making their own gear if they have the means. True innovation starts with people in the field crafting something that works, then making it for others.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Yes, let's please keep it on topic here.. :nono:

It's simple Market Bear economics.. how many have upgraded a major piece (costing more than $100.00) of archery equipment in the past 12 months. I'd wager a bet that most would answer more than one piece.

We (especially those on AT) are dedicated and driven and apparently, by the rising cost of equipment, we have shown that we are more than willing to spend $$$ on getting our scores a bit higher.. or keeping up with the Jones'.. :noidea:


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## tabarch (Sep 20, 2006)

Rattleman said:


> Just remember if you make it be prepared for the government to come along and take your item and give them out to poor under privelidged archers. Isn't this the NEW AMERICAN way?? ukey:


the archery bailout bill will be brought to the floor of the house as soon as they get done with this health grab bill they will be just like RobinHood, take from those who have and divide it up among themselves


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

But soon enough they will run into the real problem with Socialism......they will run out of other peoples money to spend!!!



tabarch said:


> the archery bailout bill will be brought to the floor of the house as soon as they get done with this health grab bill they will be just like RobinHood, take from those who have and divide it up among themselves


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Ron Meadows said:


> But soon enough they will run into the real problem with Socialism......they will run out of other peoples money to spend!!!


Ron I thought that they already have and that is why we are so indebt to the Chinese.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Brother Obama and his cronies will never run out of money. They have the printing presses running 24/7/365. When a loaf of bread is ten bucks, and a gallon of gas is ten, maby someone will wake up and do something.


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## scclimber (May 2, 2007)

we can all hope... unfortunatly, the voting majority is too ignorant to understand this concept. all they see is more money equals more money.


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

what happens now is that the voting majority will be on sucking from the government teet and will continue the downward spiral....(not so secretly their goal all along!)



scclimber said:


> we can all hope... unfortunatly, the voting majority is too ignorant to understand this concept. all they see is more money equals more money.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

i just ordered 15 60 inch carbon rods to make stabs! they are the same as the others are using I got them from the main distributor of the big stab companies! If you knew the price you would fall over! got my end pieces finished, working on a one of a kind weight system right now. Hope to have one done in a few months and then sell a few. they weight system is sweet !!! Hey BH alll of the examples you gave, cbe sights hoyt bows scott release etc, are a little harder to make than a stab, you cant just whip one with these out of the air so the price is hard to compete against, but a stab is not hard to make just a little research on the net and you can make a stab no problem. The market is being dominated by a few right now and more competition will help reduce cost. I know what I can sell them for and I only ordered 15 60 inch rods I can only imagine how much cheaper the others can make them for when they order allot more raw materials.


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

*Should have visited the Posten Booth!*

The first post was saying how much the big stab companies are charging for their stabs.Jim Posten makes some great stabs.The new Fat Max carbons are really sweet.AND they are about 1/3 the cost of the big two for the same thing.Jim doesnt make much, but he services his customers no questions asked and he is the whole company with his wife.His corporation of me,myself,and I are great to work with.His overhead is probably one tenth of the other guys and his prices reflect that.
Thanks Jim for a great product. Don Ward Senior Pro


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## scclimber (May 2, 2007)

cenochs said:


> i just ordered 15 60 inch carbon rods to make stabs! they are the same as the others are using I got them from the main distributor of the big stab companies! If you knew the price you would fall over! got my end pieces finished, working on a one of a kind weight system right now. Hope to have one done in a few months and then sell a few. they weight system is sweet !!! Hey BH alll of the examples you gave, cbe sights hoyt bows scott release etc, are a little harder to make than a stab, you cant just whip one with these out of the air so the price is hard to compete against, but a stab is not hard to make just a little research on the net and you can make a stab no problem. The market is being dominated by a few right now and more competition will help reduce cost. I know what I can sell them for and I only ordered 15 60 inch rods I can only imagine how much cheaper the others can make them for when they order allot more raw materials.


i think you are missing the point of what goes into a final price. there is a lot more than materials. heck if that were the case, you could make them for free since the materials are so cheap.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

The difference is that B-Stinger took the time and spent the money and had the RISK involved in developing a product and bringing it to market. They can then recoup their monies by charging enough of a price that will repay their risk, assuming the market will support that price and that a need exists. Obviously, both of those are true!

By saying that you want to produce a 'knock off" for less, you look to make profit off another's work. Basic patent infringement, but we'll see what the lawyers say once Cartel rips off the design....

Look at it this way...if Blair was in a position to drop the prices of these to a lower level, Doinker and Posten would probably be out of business.


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## tabarch (Sep 20, 2006)

Ron Meadows said:


> But soon enough they will run into the real problem with Socialism......they will run out of other peoples money to spend!!!


Ron you are 100% wrong about that, thay have already spent all of our money and they are working on spending all of China's money now.ukey:There are alot of country's out there who haven't donated any money at all yet.:rip::focus:


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## chrsbrbnk (Nov 25, 2009)

The quoted shop rate rate would cover most of the business stuff like insurance lites machine maintaince ect on a small shop. Were only doing about 100-120 on most stuff on a medium size shop. I don't think he was talking about bow building but really low tech items like stabs.


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

reylamb said:


> When you do decide to start nocking off folks keep in mind a few things that you will not have to pay, or may not pay, that they do, since you would be riding their coat tails....
> 
> -11% Federal Excise Tax for the Pittman Robertson Act, which goes to each state's DNR for funding. That's right, 11% goes to the feds right off the top of each sale, no ifs and or buts about it. And still yet....
> -Don't forget to pay your federal taxes.
> ...


This should be a sticky. I do believe that very few people actually understand the true cost of being in business properly. One thing you forgot is when someone pokes someone else's eye out with your garage made stabilizer they will then own your garage because you forgot about product liability insurance. Think I'm kidding you better think again.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

IGluIt4U said:


> Yes, let's please keep it on topic here.. :nono:
> 
> It's simple Market Bear economics.. how many have upgraded a major piece (costing more than $100.00) of archery equipment in the past 12 months. I'd wager a bet that most would answer more than one piece.
> 
> We (especially those on AT) are dedicated and driven and apparently, by the rising cost of equipment, we have shown that we are more than willing to spend $$$ on getting our scores a bit higher.. or keeping up with the Jones'.. :noidea:


Oh so true.......:wink:

Yep, I'm amazed at the cost of stabilizers...bows...arrows...sights...etc. As long as we the consumer keep shelling out the extra dollars...and sales are strong...prices will continue to rise until they hit 'the wall'.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Scott.Barrett said:


> The difference is that B-Stinger took the time and spent the money and had the RISK involved in developing a product and bringing it to market. They can then recoup their monies by charging enough of a price that will repay their risk, assuming the market will support that price and that a need exists. Obviously, both of those are true!
> 
> By saying that you want to produce a 'knock off" for less, you look to make profit off another's work. Basic patent infringement, but we'll see what the lawyers say once Cartel rips off the design....
> 
> Look at it this way...if Blair was in a position to drop the prices of these to a lower level, Doinker and Posten would probably be out of business.


Come on now.. B-Stinger has been in business for quite some time now correct? I'm sure they already either have their own properly equiped machine shop, or work under contract with a machinist who does. A stab is a stab and it only takes very basic machines and knowledge to make one. I know, I am a CNC machinist by trade. I'm not arguing that they don't have taxes to pay, or need to pay for advertizing, etc etc, but to say that they took on some huge risk to develop a good stabilizer, and we are now paying them back for taking that risk is going a little far if you ask me. I just had this discussion with Hornet about name brand bows. I think in any hobby, or anything else for that matter, we simply pay more for the name brand. I'm not arguing wether or not B-Stingers are great stabs. I have never shot one and am honestly probably not good enough yet to notice the difference between a B-Stinger and the stabs I use, but my point is that I seriously doubt there is any justification for their stabs to be twice the cost of what I shoot other than that they are the Nike of stabilizers. Just my opinion..


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## gripNrip (Oct 7, 2003)

*Thanks BH and KS...*

for keeping thing interesting. This thread shows how one mans opinnion is another mans hot point. Thank god I live in America where an honest and appropriately voiced opinion can be put out there.

So the thread ventured out of the normal topical for field archery. Like I said, Keeps things interesting...


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## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Anyone making a B stinger knock off and want to give one away super cheap for R and D? 11" with a 10 oz weight, not for field...


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Talkers and doers*



KStover said:


> After paying $340 for the hottest name brand stabilizers, a 36” and two 12” vbars with weights. I got to thinking, and got a little POed, about the prices I just paid. My brother and I own all the CNC machines I need to make my own. So I got the cost of carbon fiber rod, aluminum and stainless steel. The aluminum to make endcaps for the carbon rod and the stainless for the weights.
> 
> I could sell all three stabilizers for $165 and make a good solid profit. Now I’m not talking about a garage built POS, but the exact duplicate of theirs! Made with a Bridgeport CNC mill and lathe.
> 
> ...




Go for it! Several stabilizer makers on the market today. Dont see alot of them getting rich and yes I know several of them. :thumbs_up
DB


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## cblake (Jun 19, 2007)

Everyone is so concerned with the cost of stabilizers. What about a dozen all carbon arrow shafts for almost $400, and even worst that that are tungsten points. Now that is truly ridiculous.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

cblake said:


> Everyone is so concerned with the cost of stabilizers. What about a dozen all carbon arrow shafts for almost $400, and even worst that that are tungsten points. Now that is truly ridiculous.


I think the cost of arrows is more justified than the cost of stabilizers. Imagine the precision involved in getting a 30+ inch long, .200" diameter tube of carbon to stay within .001" straightness, while keeping the weight and spine within very tight tolerences. As a machinist, I could very easily make my own stabilizers that could be every bit as good as any of the stabs out there on the market, but can't imagine the process to get precision arrow shafts.. not that I WANT to spend that much, I just moaned because I had to buy another dozen field arrows, and they did hit my wallet harder than I would have liked, but at least I knew I was spending it on something that I couldn't make myself for 1/4 of the price.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

KStover said:


> After paying $340 for the hottest name brand stabilizers, a 36” and two 12” vbars with weights. I got to thinking, and got a little POed, about the prices I just paid. My brother and I own all the CNC machines I need to make my own. So I got the cost of carbon fiber rod, aluminum and stainless steel. The aluminum to make endcaps for the carbon rod and the stainless for the weights.
> 
> I could sell all three stabilizers for $165 and make a good solid profit. Now I’m not talking about a garage built POS, but the exact duplicate of theirs! Made with a Bridgeport CNC mill and lathe.
> 
> ...


Why do you think everyone is jumping on the bandwagon of selling stabilizers and other simple yet pricey archery gear????

People know they're getting ripped off and yet they still buy it.


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