# Needing help with form



## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

I'm new to the site but have visited countless times looking for information. I'm looking for someone that will work with me via PM to help me with my form. The pro shop in my area is useless so all I've got is what I can teach myself which is becoming stressful to say the least. I can try to get whatever pictures you need and have already taken some. The issues are as follows - too much pin movement, grouping changes day to day, and I feel like my bow is set up too short. I'm shooting a Hoyt powermax @ 65lbs with 30in draw length. Thanks to any and all that offer there time and advice!


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

Picture 1


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

Picture 2


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

Picture 3


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

Picture 4


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Cknoble said:


> Picture 1


get the target off the ground, and put the target in front of the tree behind you. Need the middle of the target at YOUR exact shoulder height. NEED the arrow DEAD level, for a form photo. Like this.



AFTER you master the full draw posture for a DEAD LEVEL arrow, then, learning how to aim at target on the ground, comes MUCH later.
Downhill form looks like this. Your BUTT cheeks/hip joints are too far forwards of your right ankle. PUSH the butt cheeks/hip joints sideways towards the right ankle,
so the RIGHT leg goes to vertical, for aiming at a target on the ground. RIGHT leg angled forwards = bad.


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

Thank you sooooo much for your input and taking the time on the illustrations... I'll setup a target at the height you suggested and get those pictures posted tomorrow! Again thanks and I'll be looking forward to hearing what you have to say on the next pictures !


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)




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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

Not sure why the picture duplicated itself or why it turned sideways when posted, I did it the exact same way as my pervious pictures. If that isn't going to work just let me know and I'll try to fix it...


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Cknoble said:


> Not sure why the picture duplicated itself or why it turned sideways when posted, I did it the exact same way as my pervious pictures. If that isn't going to work just let me know and I'll try to fix it...


Stand as TALL as you can. You are leaning backwards. Right shoulder is HIGHER than the left shoulder, so level out the shoulders. DROP the elbow down to the same height as the TOP of your ear. ELBOW to wrist is too much downhill. LOWER the elbow closer to the ground. When you get to full draw, FORCE the end of the front stab to rEACH forwards around 3-4 inches more. So, stand in front of a shoulder high target, with the end of the stab 3-4 inches from the face of the target, when you are at full draw. Then, REACH for the target and TOUCH the target 4-inches away. THIS will put MORE weight on your LEFT ankle and straighten up your backbone. New photo, with the end of the stab, touching the target.


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

nuts&bolts said:


> Stand as TALL as you can. You are leaning backwards. Right shoulder is HIGHER than the left shoulder, so level out the shoulders. DROP the elbow down to the same height as the TOP of your ear. ELBOW to wrist is too much downhill. LOWER the elbow closer to the ground. When you get to full draw, FORCE the end of the front stab to rEACH forwards around 3-4 inches more. So, stand in front of a shoulder high target, with the end of the stab 3-4 inches from the face of the target, when you are at full draw. Then, REACH for the target and TOUCH the target 4-inches away. THIS will put MORE weight on your LEFT ankle and straighten up your backbone. New photo, with the end of the stab, touching the target.


Awesome! I appreciate the advice and I'll get a picture with the suggested changes on here asap. I'm sure this is all common sense stuff for you but it's more help then what I've gotten locally. So again , thanks and I'll be looking forward to hearing what's next!


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

nuts&bolts;1097996457 said:


> Stand as TALL as you can. You are leaning backwards. Right shoulder is HIGHER than the left shoulder, so level out the shoulders. DROP the elbow down to the same height as the TOP of your ear. ELBOW to wrist is too much downhill. LOWER the elbow closer to the ground. When you get to full draw, FORCE the end of the front stab to rEACH forwards around 3-4 inches more. So, stand in front of a shoulder high target, with the end of the stab 3-4 inches from the face of the target, when you are at full draw. Then, REACH for the target and TOUCH the target 4-inches away. THIS will put MORE weight on your LEFT ankle and straighten up your backbone. New photo, with the end of the stab, touching the target.


I think this is what you wanted... I should note it felt extremely weird for my elbow to be at that level, I'm guessing it's due to being use to it being so high?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Cknoble said:


> I think this is what you wanted... I should note it felt extremely weird for my elbow to be at that level, I'm guessing it's due to being use to it being so high?


Now, we compromise and make an adjustment. Need your elbow a LITTLE bit higher. Want the tip of your elbow, to match the height of the top of your ear (see red line). Try again.



new photo.

Your elbow is like a crowbar. TOO LOW for the elbow (right side), you have very little leverage. TOO HIGH for the elbow (right side), you again, have very little leverage. Back muscles are much stronger, when the elbow is at the height of your ear, top of ear. So, you will hold MORE steady, when you get the right arm, tip of right elbow, at the height of the top of your ear, the height of your eyebrows.


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

nuts&bolts;1098031098 said:


> Now, we compromise and make an adjustment. Need your elbow a LITTLE bit higher. Want the tip of your elbow, to match the height of the top of your ear (see red line). Try again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I've got my elbow placement right now...


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Cknoble said:


> I think I've got my elbow placement right now...


Excellent. Shoot one arrow at close range, say 5 yards, and spend an hour, firing one arrow, and pulling that arrow, and then firing that one arrow again. Build some muscle memory, with your new shooting posture. After you spend some time, building muscle memory, learning the FEEL of this new shooting posture, then, go fling some fletched arrows at 20 yards, and see how you do.


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## Cknoble (Dec 10, 2016)

nuts&bolts;1098076209 said:


> Cknoble said:
> 
> 
> > I think I've got my elbow placement right now...
> ...


Will do! I'll throw a update on here of how I'm doing after a couple days.... thanks a ton for your time!


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## kodiak06 (Jan 17, 2017)

Interesting thread...


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## Kurookami (Jan 22, 2017)

Please forgive a newb for jumping in. 

I am new to the sport of archery and trying to learn as much as I can. And please forgive me if I say any thing too obvious, like I said, I'm new too and think I'm gonna end up in the same position as this guy.
Looking over your pics, do you stand with an open stance or completely perpendicular to your target. From the few pics that I can see of your feet, it looks like you stand a little open (forward foot a little back). I have seen youtube videos of people saying to do both, and I was wondering what people thought in here. Especially for a newbie like me trying to learn the form and get it down, it would seem to me that it is better to be completely perpendicular to your target, to really enhance that "T" shape.
Am I wrong? Thoughts?


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Kurookami said:


> Please forgive a newb for jumping in.
> 
> I am new to the sport of archery and trying to learn as much as I can. And please forgive me if I say any thing too obvious, like I said, I'm new too and think I'm gonna end up in the same position as this guy.
> Looking over your pics, do you stand with an open stance or completely perpendicular to your target. From the few pics that I can see of your feet, it looks like you stand a little open (forward foot a little back). I have seen youtube videos of people saying to do both, and I was wondering what people thought in here. Especially for a newbie like me trying to learn the form and get it down, it would seem to me that it is better to be completely perpendicular to your target, to really enhance that "T" shape.
> Am I wrong? Thoughts?


What I've found to work best is finding your natural point of aim to help deter drift at full draw during shot execution. Having a slight open stance to start with is a good starting point because it forms a small angle on the bow arm and engages the shoulder muscles that help stabilize the joint and will make your aim steadier as well.


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## Archery55808 (May 21, 2014)

RCR_III said:


> What I've found to work best is finding your natural point of aim to help deter drift at full draw during shot execution. Having a slight open stance to start with is a good starting point because it forms a small angle on the bow arm and engages the shoulder muscles that help stabilize the joint and will make your aim steadier as well.


So, this might seem a bit hazy. Is it sort of like creating a triangle where your bow arm is one side and your arm with the release is the other side. They add up to create a point for the scope. That might sound a bit confusing. Im trying my best to think that its an angle that will help stabilize the holding of the bow and will make your aim steadier with the site not moving as must as it used to be. I have only been shooting for about 5 years so far. I need to know more about shooting though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Archery55808 said:


> So, this might seem a bit hazy. Is it sort of like creating a triangle where your bow arm is one side and your arm with the release is the other side. They add up to create a point for the scope. That might sound a bit confusing. Im trying my best to think that its an angle that will help stabilize the holding of the bow and will make your aim steadier with the site not moving as must as it used to be. I have only been shooting for about 5 years so far. I need to know more about shooting though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That's correct! 

https://youtu.be/bGLJeD_SjL0


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## thebulwark (Jan 23, 2017)

Def a change in form from the first pic in december. Any chance you have a vid of your current shot. Preferably from the front side of your body?

Anyways great work. Hope it is working for you


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