# Arrow Selection/Setup - Short DL/Light DW Hunter



## kwood (Oct 4, 2011)

So I just bought a new set of arrows for hunting (but everything else I do too). Of Course, after I put down the money I start thinking...I feel like for many of us, with Short Draw length and/or Low Poundages, us short girls kind of got the short end of the stick -and I think that stick was an arrow! 

This post is to gather perspectives on how to set up a set of arrows for hunting particularly for the SD/Light DW (<25.5"/<55#) Hunter. How do we achieve the best balance of Stability, Speed, and KE in an arrow for hunting (various game, e.g, Deer, Turkey, etc.)? 

I have a gut feeling that many of the arrow spine selection charts and other tools we see are based on the AVERAGE MALE and the data extrapolated to "fit" us. I just haven't seen much written on it. I use them I get VERY inconsistent answers for my Arrow Spine at my DW and Arrow Length. 

1) *Arrow Length:*
- Do the same rules of thumb apply to Arrow Length That apply to Men when trying to increase arrow speed by shortening the arrow? 
- (e.g., does a 24" or shorter Arrow that is proportional to the Archer's DL; present a problem for stability)?
- At what draw weights would this tend to matter more? (e.g., lighter, or heavier?) 
- or is it best to leave them a little longer?

*2) Broadheads/Tips Size & Type*
- The weight of an arrow point seems like a pretty big choice for SDL/LDW archers
--> obvious impact on the KE/Speed tradeoff (esp. as DL and/or DW decreases)
--> effect on FOC (Again, the shorter DL/shorter Arrow, lower DW/lighter arrow --> Massive effect of Point grain size on FOC balance. 

*3) Vane type for short arrow? *
(I always assumed blazers - short vanes would be best for a short arrow). Then I looked at the long vanes on (short) crossbow bolts. If I go with a 100gr tip, maybe use a longer/heavier vane like 3, 4 or 5" vanes would work better; to stabilize the naturally more squirrelly short arrow. 
Anyone using the bigger vanes? 
*
4) Custom inserts/nock weights*
- anybody do this so you can get a short arrow to fly right? 

Sorry for such a long post. 
*So...Anyway... WHAT ARE YOU USING? (Or Recommend) FOR Short-People HUNTING ARROWS///And Why? 
Please include your DL/DW/bow and as many arrow specs as you know: Length, Spine Resistance, gpi, model, vane & nock type, insert type/custom inserts, or if you use a smaller/larger diameter arrow or whatever... 
*

Thanks!

My setup now (very simple) will likely change
AssassinSD 24.5"/51# with 24.5" .500 Easton Hunter, 7.3 gpi, currently have 2" Blazer Vanes, considering longer ones, currently have 100g tips, considering 85g.


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## turkeygirl (Aug 13, 2006)

Well I shoot a 2011 Hunter at 53 pounds 25" DL

Was shooting Easton Flatline 400s with 100 grain tip. Just went to 500s with 100 grain tip....they seem to fly faster/straighter than the 400s. Would have to check to tell you their length. They have Blazer vanes and nocks/inserts that came with.


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## mtnmutt (Apr 4, 2010)

reposting for this new thread...

For elk hunting (deer are not as tough) I have:
OLD - was told my arrow was too light, so my new arrow's total weight will be heavier
25" GT Exped Hunter 3555 7.4 gpi; GT nock and inserts, G5 Montec CS 100 gn
2010 Martin Leopard RH 52.5#, 24DL, WB; 25" GT Exped Hunter 3555, 100gr, Pink Blazers, 328gr; 219 fps

NEW - have not shot this setup yet.
Went with heavier arrow and longer (est total 385 gn): 26" Easton FMJ 500 9.1 gps; G5 Montec CS 100 gn
waiting on 2012 Mathews Jewel RH 55#, 24.5DL, Focus Grip, MBG custom Ascent, DownForce, 26" Easton FMJ 500, 100gr, Pink Blazers
Easton FMJ 500 with HIT, easton nock, BAR3 broadhead adapter

My 1st year, the person selling me the bow said to use 85 gn tip because of my low DW/fps, but I quickly learned that 85 gn for elk is not recommended. Deer or smaller animal probably, but not elk.

My FOCs are over 12%, but I can't remember what they are. 

My goal is 50 KE or higher for hunting elk, so I may go with 125 gn tip.

New people posting, can you please clarify which animals you hunt?


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## crowinghen (Oct 2, 2011)

I just received some Vforce v3's in 600 spine-- first time shooting them today- they seem to fly better ( straighter, faster) than my old arrows, which are 700 spine harvester 1's... when I upped my draw weight they just got squirrelly.
The new arrows are 27 inches long, with an 85 gr tip, blazer vanes FOC around 12, weight around 304 grains, speed comes up around 235 fps.
I'm shooting Heartbreaker 48 pounds, 24.5 draw length.

I got the trial version of os2 and it really is fun to play with-- i will probably buy the full program when my trial runs out. with the price of arrows it seems like a great value!
I am using these arrows for 3d's and deer hunting.
Susie


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## crowinghen (Oct 2, 2011)

*If I go with a 100gr tip, maybe use a longer/heavier vane like 3, 4 or 5" vanes would work better; to stabilize the naturally more squirrelly short arrow.
Anyone using the bigger vanes?
*
Also you could look at using a wrap to make the FOC better- more weight to the rear of the arrow

susie


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

Download Eastons 2nd edition tuning manual from their web site.

Your arrow length and draw weight SCREAM for a .600 spine.
Get a dozen Goldtip Ultralite 600's.
Add AAE Max Hunter veins with 3 degree helical.. 

Start at 26" length.
Add a 11.4 g insert, 100 grain tip, 9.3 grains of fletchings and an 8.3 grain nock. You'd have an arrow that would be the right spine and weigh 285 grains and have a 14.4 FOC! Stable!!

For hunting this combo would deliver for you about 45 KE (Way more than enough for Rabbits, Turkeys, Pigs, Antelope, Deer and even Elk)
It would fly at 266 FPS!! That's a great speed for 3-D.

If you are a hunter, I recommend this combo because if your bow/arrow are tuned correctly, all you'd need to do is unscrew the 100 grain target tip and screw in a Slick Trick 100 grain, 4 blade broadhead and they would fly exactly where the targets do.

WITHOUT CHANGING A SINGLE THING.!!

If the 26" length doesn't tune perfectly you could pull the nock, shave off the veins, cut the arrow down 1/2" and try again. They'd be a bit stiffer then.
Start with one arrow at a time and find that sweet spot. Then build the rest of them to those specs.
Did that make sense?

Step by step?
First......

Start with one arrow, leave the others for now.
Leave the arrow long, maybe 26".
Put a insert, a 100 grain tip and an Accu-Lite nock on it. Don't put veins on yet! Bare shaft tune first.

Start at 6 feet and make a perfect release into paper. Look at the hole.

Tune the bow to the arrow. 
Rest, Nock point, poundage up or down.
Eastons 2nd edition tuning manual will help you there.

You might want to shorten the arrow by 1/2" increments to get a perfect hole.

When you get a bullet hole at 6 feet, move back to 15 feet and try again.

MAKE SURE YOUR RELEASE IS PERFECT AND YOU DON'T TORQUE THE BOW.

When you are getting perfect holes at 15, move to 30 feet.

After you get perfect holes to 30 feet you can build a few arrows to the length you determined and put on the veins.

`````````````````````````````` ````````
Now to fine tune it.

Walk Back tune. (French tune?)

Set up a target and using a string put a weight on it and dangle it up against the target so the string stays perfectly vertical. You could use tape if you wish but just make sure it's perfectly vertical.


French - 
Step back to 9 feet and shoot at the line. Make perfect shots. Use your 20 pin. Note where they shoot.
Move the REST ever so slightly until you are hitting on the line consistently from 9 feet.

Move back to ten yards and try it again. Shoot at the line with your 20 pin. Move the SIGHT to get hits on the line.
You should be close now.

Or

Walk Back

Again with the weighted string set vertical on the block.
Go out to ten yards and shoot at the line. Shoot three and note where you are hitting.
Walk back to 20 and do it again.
Then thirty and forty yards.

If you see that the arrow impacts start left at 10 then move right at 20, more right at 30 and more at 40, move your rest until all shots from 10-40 hit on the same side and are vertical.
Then move your sight.

You'll be dang close.

I hope that made sense.

Bill


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

i know for me, the best set up i have found is beman bowhunter 500s.
24 " , 2 "blazers and 100gr slick tricks, total arrow wt 336 gr, @ 259 fps
50.1 ke
for all the bow specs read my sig.
this set up the arrows fly like darts. and plenty of ke


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

imo, 600s should not be used for hunting, theres to much flex on a less than perfect shot (heavy bone).
even some of the 500s dont have business having a broadhead on them.
i want to make sure that i have enough strength to blow threw and not break. 
we owe it to the game we hunt not to wound but to make a clean kill.
would any one hunt elk with a 300 gr arrow?


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

Bonecollector.

I rarely challenge people here but you sir are wrong.
I totally disagree with you.

Arrow spine has NOTHING to do with the ability to "blow through" game.
A .600 arrow will not break.

It's about shot placement.

Too stiff a spine is not accurate.
A bad shot at 70KE is worse than a good shot at 35KE.


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## Stubby'smom (Mar 20, 2010)

You should really go on Gold Tips website and email Tim G with your questions. Or better yet, call him. I am not a hunter (will try again this year though) but a good arrow set up is also important for target shooters. I am just learning and understanding all of this myself. I am purchasing Gold Tip kinetic arrows for field archery and they are 3555 500 spine. They will be cut to about 26" shaft (I'm a 28.5" draw) and I will be shooting them around 45-48lbs. I let Tim build them for me and he says 125 grain tips with 1.75" vanes. He also said 100 grain tips would be ok. Then he went into detail about rests and how important they are to good arrow flight. I will not get into it here, but that man is really willing to help others learn and shoot their best.


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## crowinghen (Oct 2, 2011)

I e-mailed Tim- never got a response... ??
Susie


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## Juliet (Sep 2, 2011)

I just bought Easton Ions, hunting arrows designed for lower poundage and shorter draw lengths.


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## tpcowfish (Aug 11, 2008)

Maybe you could pm Nuts and bolts, on here, he could set ya up perfectly, im sure,


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## doegirl (Sep 22, 2004)

bonecollector66 said:


> imo, 600s should not be used for hunting, theres to much flex on a less than perfect shot (heavy bone).
> even some of the 500s dont have business having a broadhead on them.
> i want to make sure that i have enough strength to blow threw and not break.
> we owe it to the game we hunt not to wound but to make a clean kill.
> would any one hunt elk with a 300 gr arrow?


600 spine arrows are fine for hunting. I'm more interested in hitting where I'm aiming at, and that's done with a properly spined arrow. Below 45lbs, that 's a Goldtip Ultralight 600 arrow for me. The deer, hogs, and turkey I've shot don't seem to have a problem with them either.
BTW, my husband took a 1000lb bison with a 300grain arrow.


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## kwood (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok, anyone wanna trade 600's for my 500's? They're 24" Long w/ Blazer vanes. Open to partial trades too.....Only shot em a couple times.


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## kwood (Oct 4, 2011)

cantrell, what DL/DW are you at? 

Threetoe, you're right, at least according to the calculator on the Easton Website, my DL/Weight/Length SCREAMS .600 for hunting. Regardless of tip, etc. This would basically only change to .500 if I shot either a) a longer arrow (roughly 26") or b) upped the DL to 57#. It's kind of upsetting to me now that I bought the .500s. I almost wonder if the proshop sold me those arrows just bc they don't stock the right thing in a .600?

What do you guys think of weighting the rear of the arrow w/wraps or nock weights? 
Or larger vanes? Anyone using longer vanes here??


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

I shoot a 500 spine at 45-47 pounds. Yes the charts will sometimes call for a lighter spine, but the 500 fly so good for me. Of course I have a 27.5" draw.

I would be careful cutting arrows too short as this will just stiffen the spine.
What I hate to see is a girls shooting her husbands old arrows because he's too cheap to buy her new ones. Like the girl pulling 35lbs and shooting his old CE 350's...yuk.


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## kwood (Oct 4, 2011)

Xforcegirl - what makes me mad is 

**I** bought MY ARROWS BRAND NEW at a PRO SHOP 
AND ASKED them that same question (if cutting to 24" would stiffen too much) when they asked me about the length.
And they said it was fine. Now I think it is not -- it is probably what they had in stock. 

I thought I could trust an archery-specific bow shop that has been in business 25+ yrs in the area to give me the straight dope. 
Not so? 
They said something along the lines of..."for hunting you don't want to go too light." 

Only to find out that Easton makes a .600 in a 7.3gr (same weight as my Beman ICS Hunters I just had Custom-made!)

Now I have a brand new set of arrows that are STILL too stiff for me....and sad thing is, at 24" long, there's basically NO resale value for them....
(not many people are running the 24"DL/65# DW combo these days, lol)
(sigh)....:angry:


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

Kwood

Use them for fun!
Shoot gophers, trees, anything with em. at 24" they aren't worth much.

Like you, I have learned to think for myself and question the "so-called" pros.

Get that 2nd edition tuning guide. Tune the bow the way it says and I GUARANTEE you'll shoot better than you ever have.

Listen to very few here. The internet is full of people who have strongly held opinions about things they know little of or at worse have been misinformed about.
I think it's a product of today's "self esteem" society.

PM me if I can help you learn so you can do it yourself.

bill


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## kwood (Oct 4, 2011)

OK I robin-hooded so now I only have 4. 
4 gophers is a more manageable number. 

STILL getting wishy-washy answers from "the pros"
What I CANNOT do, is to get someone to tell me what the consequences of "too much spine" would be and how that would affect arrow flight. What I take away from the message is that it is safer to "err on the heavier side"

BUT....Just because arrow spine and arrow weight are CORRELATED does not mean they are THE SAME! GRRR!:angry:
I get talked down on this one a lot. 
OK, I get it, for various reasons (KE/penetration, noise, vibration, etc.) I do not want TOO LIGHT an arrow. I get it....
So the question I posed was this: 
"If I can shoot a .500 7.3gpi, 24"AL/100gr or a .600 7.3gpi, 24"AL/100gr which will fly truer, tune better, perform better for hunting?"

No one could answer that question. They still thought I was talking about a LIGHTER arrow. I was trying to get an expert's view on a relatively isolated effect of the spine variable. :angry::angry:


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## doegirl (Sep 22, 2004)

kwood said:


> "If I can shoot a .500 7.3gpi, 24"AL/100gr or a .600 7.3gpi, 24"AL/100gr which will fly truer, tune better, perform better for hunting?"
> 
> No one could answer that question. They still thought I was talking about a LIGHTER arrow. I was trying to get an expert's view on a relatively isolated effect of the spine variable. :angry::angry:


They'll BOTH do well depending on the on the particulars of one's setup. Too much spine will adversely affect arrow flight, screw on a fixed bladed broadhead and you'll magnify the problem. You will get more consistent and tighter groups from a properly spined arrow.
Archery 101.


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## kwood (Oct 4, 2011)

Doegirl, can you elaborate further on your arrow length/details of your setup (bow, rest, etc)? 
I am at a slightly heavier poundage than you (52#) but my arrows (i Am guessing) are maybe shorter. 
I am thinking of going to a Mechanical Broadhead but not sure if I'm pulling quite enough punch yet.

I am trying to get at the meat of the matter here - a properly spined arrow. What I cannot tell is exactly what that spine will be because at my AL/ DW# 23"/52#, I am getting very inconsistent readings from THE CHARTS. 

I want to know --- what is the proper spine here? 

I want to try .600's -- if anyone has any used ones (I don't care if I have to refletch) I would be interested in buying them just to see how they do.  
I just have a feeling that at 23" AL, a .500 is going to be overspined for just about anyone pulling less than KING KONG himself, lol.


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## doegirl (Sep 22, 2004)

kwood said:


> Doegirl, can you elaborate further on your arrow length/details of your setup (bow, rest, etc)?
> I am at a slightly heavier poundage than you (52#) but my arrows (i Am guessing) are maybe shorter.
> I am thinking of going to a Mechanical Broadhead but not sure if I'm pulling quite enough punch yet.
> 
> ...


What is your DRAWLENGTH? You give arrow lengths, and that might not necessarily be you drawlength. No one can determine anything without that. 
Me giving you particulars about my setup will not help you. I shoot a different bow, at at lower draw weight, with a different drawlength.
I think they are a sponsor on this site, but try using the trial program from Pinwheel Software. I do use it as a guide and found it very helpful. I have the program downloaded on both of my computers.
http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/


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## crowinghen (Oct 2, 2011)

I love that Pinwheel software- for the money it's awesome-- I thikit will save me money not buying improper arrows.
I, too have made a few mistakes with arrows, and as my draw weight increases my arrows no worky 
I'll have some up for sale soon I think, in the 600 spine ...

susie


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