# Mongolian Draw and Recurve



## The RedEye (Aug 10, 2011)

Hi all, I'm very new to archery and have only recently gotten my first bow. As I used it I started to question why the arrow was loaded on the inside of the bow vs the outside. It seemed to me that one could load and draw faster if it was on the outside. The history nerd within me couldn't understand how such a practice have continued so long with the obvious military application of being able to shoot more arrows if only the arrow was on the other side. As fast and as practiced as one can be placing an arrow on the inside, placing the arrow on the outside allows one to place the arrow and draw in one motion without having to readjust your hand to hold the string. After some research (and it took longer than normal because apparently no one else cares to ask), the best answer I found was that because of the way one releases the string, it causes the bow to initially flex towards where it was last released from. That means when using a standard Mediterranean draw (on a right handed bow), the arrow would flex towards the right. Because of this, the arrow is kept to the left so that the bow itself can minimize the flex. So here are my questions

1) Is this true?
2) If not, why is it on the inside?
3) If true, why has the mongolian draw gotten popular?
4) I have ilf bow, If I replaced the riser with a left handed riser (and replace the grip to a right handed grip) can I use it as a mongolian bow with a thumb ring?


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> 1) Is this true?


Short answer, yes.



> 3) If true, why has the mongolian draw gotten popular?


As best I can tell, shooting in tournaments and rendevous from TX to PA over the last 15+ years, it hasn't.



> 4) I have ilf bow, If I replaced the riser with a left handed riser (and replace the grip to a right handed grip) can I use it as a mongolian bow with a thumb ring?


You could shoot it with a thumb ring but that wouldn't make it a Mongolian bow.

The thumb ring is the original release aid. Not sure why it never caught on in the U.S., but I imagine there is a good reason.

Chad


----------



## The RedEye (Aug 10, 2011)

I did not mean to say the bow would transform to a mongolian bow. The question was more to ask if there is anything else required to use a thumb ring. Assuming the flex explanation above is correct as I understand it, in order to use a right handed thumb ring, one would be required to have the arrow on the right side of the bow. This is not an option, but is necessary to compensate for the flex. If one does not do this, the arrow will fly wild (I assume towards the left).

And the third question was supposed to read "If true, why has the mongolian draw *NOT *gotten popular?" left the small little 'not' for some reason (my own stupidity).


----------



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Ok--I misunderstood--sorry about that. I believe the thumb ring is all you would need to shoot right-handed from the right side of the bow.

There are a few enthusiasts in the U.S., but that type of archery has never really gained a foothold here. Not sure why. Never gave it an honest try myself.

Chad


----------



## Pikkuhannu (Apr 3, 2009)

I have read, that good thumbring shooters can shoot either side. Bad shooters, like me, must shoot arrow on right side...

Maybe why thumbring is not so popular, it is harder to learn. Also good thumbrings is hard to find, you must make one.


----------



## bnations (Feb 10, 2010)

I've been fooling around with the Mongolian release for about a year now. The release itself is much smoother than using your fingers as in Mediterranean style. So, the arrows tend to fly much nicer, and arrow spine is less of an issue. However, I have had a devil of a time getting a consistent draw length because there's no ready anchor point when using a full Mongolian style draw. I do find it easier to draw and hold when using a thumb ring, which allows me to use a higher poundage bow.


----------



## The RedEye (Aug 10, 2011)

I was considering ignoring the traditional method of full mongolian draw style and just draw it to a regular anchor point similar to the Mediterranean style. . I will make a blanket assumption that they pulled further back because you gained the advantage of extra power because they needed it. With better materials and production, as well as the lack of need to do as much damage as possible, I was thinking of modyfing the mongolian draw. Instead of drawing it so the hand floats, just make an anchor point. Yes, you lose power, but should gain consistency. My goal is just to get to the point of getting it as accurate as a regular recurve drawn in mediteranean style, but with the benefit of loading faster. I know I don't actually NEED to load faster, and especially not in target shooting, but just the concept of an unexplored method of instant improvement on tech just offends me (again, the inner nerd).

That said, after testing my bow by pulling it with a thumb, I have to say that it HURT. Really. REALLY. HURT. Even using the leather tab just to dampen the strain didn't do very much to lessen the strain. If this is the reason why it hasn't gotten popular and why people are ok shooting slower to lessen strain, I completely understand. Using a hard ring probably would be a different matter, but I do see where it has no place in competitive target shooting where you have to fire as many rounds as you do (with a restriction that no aids other than leather gloves/tabs). Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but for now, I'll leave my stance at that.


----------



## Pikkuhannu (Apr 3, 2009)

Well, i don´t use "mongolian" draw either. I draw about corner of mouth, like the mediterranean style. My style is more like mix of korean, turkish and mongolian style.
I also practise fast shooting, arrows on my drawhand.
Like here in Turkish speed shooting.

I use thumbring made of horn. Yes, it hurts when you start this technique, but now after year i can shoot all day long easy.


----------



## bnations (Feb 10, 2010)

RedEye,

I believe that you would find that pulling the string Mediterranean style but using only one finger and no glove or tab will hurt as well. That being said, I have had no issues with pain at any point. Of course, I started the process by first making a ring from some rawhide dog chews. It was quite easy to do and took a couple of hours of time. Over the last 7 months or so, i put some wear on the rawhide ring and am now going to move up to a plastic ring made from an old billiard ball just as soon as I nibble down the honey-do list. I don't think that using a leather tab on the thumb will be very effective, but that's only my untried opinion. Oh, and you need to start with a lower poundage bow and work your way up to your normal weight. I used my childrens' bows for the initial phases.

One nice thing about the mongolian draw has been the lack of string slap on my forearm. It just doesn't seem to happen. I've taken to not even wearing a forearm protector when shooting with the thumb ring.


----------



## jbl (Mar 17, 2009)

I am a thumb draw shooter and have not shot with fingers in years. The thumb ring is no different than a tab or gloves as far as "release aid" goes. The string is not held by the ring or a leather tab it is the thumb turned into the palm and covered by the pointer finger. The biggest difference is sight picture with the arrow being on the draw hand side you have no reference to the target. A shooter can anchor in the same spot as a Western shooter if you choose too, the reason for the longer draw with the thumb is because the Composite bows were considered War bows and the added draw gave the bow more power and the second part is these bows with their siyahs (static tips) were made to be more efficient with the longer draw. One thing about these bows is that when you pull back on them when you get to full draw you get a feel of a let off that is because the early draw weight if these bows.

Another thing is many people think that for whatever reason you can not shoot a "Western" bow (left hand for a right hand shooter and vice versa)with a thumb draw that is not true as my daughter says, "it's just a way to draw a bow" I do think the reason why the thumb draw hasn't taken hold in North America is three fold first the archery traditions in NA were based on English style shooting, second the thumb ring is more of a specialty item then even a glove or a tab, and last because NA has not grown up with the thumb tradition it is harder to learn on your "own."


----------



## The RedEye (Aug 10, 2011)

jbl, are you saying that the whole flexing issue of the arrow because of the side you let go of the string from is a myth?


----------



## jbl (Mar 17, 2009)

Redeye I don't know if I said that in that post but the "archer's paradox" is lessened with the thumb lock. Some people even claim that when the thumb draw is performed correctly the paradox disappears.


----------

