# Coach KIM Yung-Tak



## Tec-JAM (Dec 1, 2008)

Coach KIM Yung-Tak is coming in Montreal in August and I am asking if someone know him and his technique. I am Level 3 in Canada but also NAA level 4 (Kisik Lee certification) so what is the difference between the 2 coachs.
J-A


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Kim Hyung-Tak teaches the current "korean" technique. Lee teaches what used to be "korean" technique ten+ years ago, plus the way he's been developing it ever since.

Both have coached olympic gold medalists and both have their merits, surely. I'm a fan of Kim's teachings and the courses I've been in have been good this far. Kim is a member of FITA coaches committee and iirc president of korean coaches association.


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## Old Hoyt (Jul 28, 2005)

Jacques-Andre,

Check this:
http://www.target2012.net/Kim_presentation.pdf

(It is a large file & may take time to load)

Don't know if you remember - we shot together a few times at the FCA Nationals ....back in the '70's

Grant Gillingham
Prince Albert, SK


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I am Level 3 in Canada but also NAA level 4 (Kisik Lee certification) so what is the difference between the 2 coachs.


You're a NAA "level 4 (Kisik Lee certification)?" Really?

Either I've totally lost track of our coaching certifications, or this is a mistake.

John.


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## Big.Dave (Dec 13, 2009)

zal said:


> Kim Hyung-Tak teaches the current "korean" technique. Lee teaches what used to be "korean" technique ten+ years ago, plus the way he's been developing it ever since.
> 
> Both have coached olympic gold medalists and both have their merits, surely. I'm a fan of Kim's teachings and the courses I've been in have been good this far. Kim is a member of FITA coaches committee and iirc president of korean coaches association.


I just had a look at the coach Kim presentation it looks almost identical to what Kisik Lee is teaching it just highlights some common errors in more detail and these things even a basic level one coach should be able to point out.

It's all good.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

There are differences, like straight stance etc. What Kim teaches is very very simple and basic, and keeps it that way all the way.


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## [email protected] (Jan 19, 2006)

I like the powerpoint, all 100+ pages =P

Very similiar to some other powerpoints I've sat through in the last few years.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> You're a NAA "level 4 (Kisik Lee certification)?" Really?
> 
> Either I've totally lost track of our coaching certifications, or this is a mistake.
> 
> John.


Well, it is probably a better description of the current USA Archery program, which, it seems to an outsider like myself, doesn't really have a program of its own but rather imported a pre-made won by temporarily contracting a strong coach who can teach brilliantly in person but who's program only has his books (co-written and published by the same) to teach the "USA Archery BEST Method" which is called the KSL Shot Cycle by the coach and is too complicated and lacking in robustness to pass down safely and effectively through various iterations of coaches to the grunt level. Anyway, KSL L4 is probably more correct than USA Archery L4, if that is what the OP has.


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## qc-archer (Apr 17, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> You're a NAA "level 4 (Kisik Lee certification)?" Really?
> 
> Either I've totally lost track of our coaching certifications, or this is a mistake.
> 
> John.


John,

Yes, he is. I know him very well since he is my coach. As far as I remember, he has been NAA Level 4 for years (being an old-timer in archery) and being certified again last year (2008 or 2009) with Kisik Lee. He is from Canada, and that may explain the fact that he is having less exposure to the actual US archer community, and consequently that "you have lost track of your coaching certifications" ... just kidding.

Patrice


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

qc-archer said:


> John,
> 
> Yes, he is. I know him very well since he is my coach. As far as I remember, he has been NAA Level 4 for years (being an old-timer in archery) and being certified again last year (2008 or 2009) with Kisik Lee. He is from Canada, and that may explain the fact that he is having less exposure to the actual US archer community, and consequently that "you have lost track of your coaching certifications" ... just kidding.
> 
> Patrice


If he took a re-cert or certification course in 2009, then he would be either a community coach or regional coach. I was one of the people caught in the middle of the transition from L1 - L5 designations.

Now the certifications for NAA are 

Basic Instructor
Intermediate instructor
Community Coach
Regional Coach
Elite coach

This part I'm not sure how will be handled

According to the latest info that I have

All the Lx designations will go away as your certifications expire and you will need to attend some training or continuing education course to re-certify. You would then be in the new coaching system. 

Instructors will just need to continue teaching in an active program to maintain their certification however their new certification cards will have the new designation of basic and intermediate instructor.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

*another possiblity*

The other possibility for a L4/KSL trained NAA Coach is that he attended a continuing education course while a L4 coach which was happening as they transitioned to the new system so did not receive his regional coaching certification.

This would have been one of the High Performance camps that were being run.

This would make him a current L4 coach with BEST/KSL Training. I don't know the requirement for NAA membership so I don't know how they would handle international coaches. I do know that at our regional coaches certification in 2009 we had coaches from Mongolia, Taipei and Canada.

DC


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Oh, my head hurts...

Would someone please sort this all out for the rest of us who work for a living...

John.


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

> Oh, my head hurts...
> 
> Would someone please sort this all out for the rest of us who work for a living...
> 
> John.


:smile: Sounds like the UK system - Lost me years ago.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

It seems to me that too many really excellent coaches fall off the grid because of certification issues. 

If you are a capable coach, USA Archery should WANT those people, regardless of expertise in a particular system.


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## pencarrow (Oct 3, 2003)

midwayarcherywi said:


> It seems to me that too many really excellent coaches fall off the grid because of certification issues.
> 
> If you are a capable coach, USA Archery should WANT those people, regardless of expertise in a particular system.


I believe it's called " Preferred Providers".


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## Tec-JAM (Dec 1, 2008)

*Politics or else?*

Regardless of the country, I think the policy controls almost everything. I am a physical education teacher whose retirement and archery was my main discipline for lasts those 35 years. I have trained many coaches in my province, but for political reasons or domineering, I was excluded from the system. You're right when you said that we were so lost in the system, because I am still facing it. In the 80s, I was level 5 and suddenly a new structure forced me to regress to level 1:mg:. Today, as you in the U.S., everything has to start all over and I am once again a non-qualified instructor. I find it difficult to reinvest as much money and time on pain of expulsion, and that, in order to train other followers of our sport. No matter what level I'm in the future, the skills acquired by Coach Park Kyung Rae and Coach Kisik Lee and the NAA formation, allowed me to have a different perspective on all of our technique and I hope that the seminar from Coach Kim Hyung Tak in august, will help me to develop more knowledge in the sport, even though my levels are my retire. The skill has a price, but when the little shared it, it's priceless:teeth:.
Hope my English written is understandable.


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## qc-archer (Apr 17, 2009)

dchan said:


> If he took a re-cert or certification course in 2009, then he would be either a community coach or regional coach. I was one of the people caught in the middle of the transition from L1 - L5 designations.
> 
> Now the certifications for NAA are
> 
> ...


DCHAN,
Yes, he was caught in the middle of the transition and he get his NAA L4 Certification with Kisik Lee on November 2008 (expiring Dec.31 2011). I hope that this will dissipate all the confusion on this issue, or at least TECK-JAM issue.

JOHN,
I must admit that I was not happy the way you have answered to TECH-JAM. If I would be TECH-JAM, I would never answer to this comment. Nevertheless, those things happen sometimes because of what we are. Finally, I have always been please to read you so far and sure will be.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Despite my Germanic love of organization and hierarchy, I have to wonder if their is anybody who would think less of coach Kim's abilities if he, for some reason, lacked a USA Archery cert? Given his accomplishments, the certs all seem sort of silly and redundant. Just wondering...


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Warbow said:


> Despite my Germanic love of organization and hierarchy, I have to wonder if their is anybody who would think less of coach Kim's abilities if he, for some reason, lacked a USA Archery cert? Given his accomplishments, the certs all seem sort of silly and redundant. Just wondering...


Don't worry, Koreans for sure have their own certificatinos and systems :shade:

I'd prefer to have some kind of a system, for years we didn't have any in Finland and it really showed in overall scores and training regime. Now more knowledge, more coaches and more organized approach and look and behold, half a dozen of 1300+ shooters, one 1330+, team medal at european champs and lots of potential young archers, while 5 years ago we had about none (of any of them). Its really surprising how deep we sunk in few years after olympic and WC medals by Poikolainen, Lipponen, Meriluoto, Laasonen and such.

Compound side still lacks coaches and organization and it barely manages with few gifted individuals, but I haven't seen any development there lately.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> JOHN,
> I must admit that I was not happy the way you have answered to TECH-JAM. If I would be TECH-JAM, I would never answer to this comment. Nevertheless, those things happen sometimes because of what we are. Finally, I have always been please to read you so far and sure will be.


Just looking for clarification, that's all. Didn't sound quite right to me - but then I've not made any effort to keep up with all the changes since the "BEST" method came to town. At one point, I was a regional high performance coach and Jr. Dream Team coach with only a NAA Level 2 certification. I was under the impression that the old NAA "levels" had gone by the wayside though...

I applaud those who invest so much of their own time and money into coaching this sport, because there really is no return on that investment other than the opportunity to help others become better archers. 

In my situation at the moment, I have niether time or money to invest so I don't even try to keep up with all the changes. I'm hoping that when I'm once again able to spend more time coaching, all of these details will have been settled and we will have a readily understandable system. Maybe we already do. Like I said, I haven't made an effort to keep up since moving back to Texas. Graduating kids from high school and getting them into college is my priority these days 

John.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Just looking for clarification, that's all. Didn't sound quite right to me - but then I've not made any effort to keep up with all the changes since the "BEST" method came to town. At one point, I was a regional high performance coach and Jr. Dream Team coach with only a NAA Level 2 certification. I was under the impression that the old NAA "levels" had gone by the wayside though...
> 
> I applaud those who invest so much of their own time and money into coaching this sport, because there really is no return on that investment other than the opportunity to help others become better archers.
> 
> ...


Maybe Rick can ask Sheri to chime in on the way it is currently.

My understanding is this (having just gone through the transition process and being caught in the middle of the switch)

L1 and L2 Instructors are now basic and intermediate instructors. Any certifications they have still stand but will be re-issued with the new designation assuming they meet all the re-certification requirements. If I remember correctly all they need to do is maintain their USA Archery membership and continue to teach in a qualified position or attend some continuing education.

L3 coaches can transition into the new path by attending a transition course.
They do not need to start over. I know at the beginning of the transition, they were taking coaches that had let their certifications lapse and allowing them to re-certify in the new system. They could come in as a community coach or regional coach depending by taking the appropriate course. 

If a L3 did not have any BEST training, the course requirements might have been different than one without. L3's that took the high performance course during the beginning of the transition, were only required to petition USA Archery to get their new coaching status.

L3 and L4 coaches drop off as their coaching certifications expire (like any other certification) unless they take appropriate continuing education. If I read the notes and emails I got correctly, most will just need to take the appropriate continuing education and they will be entered into the new system with the proper designation of either a community coach, regional coach or elite coach depending on their ability and training.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Kinda of an oddly named thread
Number are also used to designate the FITA coaching level system. 
Getting away from numbers for the USA Archery National Training System Instructor and Coaches certification levels is a good thing.


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## Drogo_Moss (Jan 23, 2012)

Would it be possible to have another link to Coach Kim's archery presentation? Just hoping.


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Folks, let me see if I can clarify the USA Archery coaching levels as they currently exist. As of January 1, 2012 USAA went back to the Level # designations and added NTS to it. NTS = National training system (changed from BEST). Jacques (Tec-JAM) and I were in a Level 4-NTS class held in Indianapolis, IN last November. And YES, we certified in person and one on one with KiSic LEE. The former Community, Regional, and Elite Coaching designations are now Level 3 -NTS, Level 4 - NTS and Level 5 - NTS respectively. Since we took the class so close to the turn of the year, they "labeled" us with the new designations. 

I was told that USAA decided to go back to the numbered system because too many folks both in and out of archery did not or could not relate to what "community" or "Regional" coach really was. They added the NTS to distinguish the Lee/National training system trained folks from the older level 3/ 4 etc coaches. The former level 3/4, etc coaches can take a class to get the "NTS" added to their certificates if they are so inclined.

Whether anyone likes or dislikes the system is up to them, I am only trying to sort out some of the questions in this thread. Hope this helps.

Arne

PS. Hi Jacques, how are you doing?


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

I just saw that this was a post dug up from the cellar, 2010 for crying out loud! The class I was talking about was held in November 2011 and the update I gave is correct as of now, for what it is worth.


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

Drogo_Moss said:


> Would it be possible to have another link to Coach Kim's archery presentation? Just hoping.



Kim Presentation:

Kim Coaching Videos


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## Drogo_Moss (Jan 23, 2012)

Hey Joe T... Many thanks. :thumbs_up


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