# Warf?



## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

I have 2 old compounds one of which I would like to turn into a recurve. I am wondering which would be better And easier to convert. One is an old Bear "Black Bear" and the other is a Jennings "Black Lightning" also what limbs should I look for. Around 60" and 45 pounds draw finished is what I am looking for.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

It's been some time since I looked into much detail on Warfing...found another bow and decided to shoot it. From my research, if I recall correctly, the Bear will be the better riser for the task-- has to do with the limb pocket angle. I don't recall exactly what the desired angle is...believe it's 14-20 deg.

tradtalk has a "Warf" section...not sure here. I'd suggest looking in the traditional section here--ask a mod to move it over, you'll get more responses.


Limbs? That will depend on you and how much work you want to do. I'd suggest going with an ILF (international limb fit) style limb because of the limb choices. It will require a little more work but you'll be happy you did. 

45#...do you have much recurve experience? 45# doesn't sound like much but it's a significant weight for starting out with a recurve...a better choice is 25-30# (it will allow you to properly develop your form)


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Pretty much agree with everything Furry90flyer said. 

This is one of those things I've been thinking of doing for a long time. I think I have an old PSE riser laying around here somewhere. I guess I'll need to poke around and see if I can find it.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

what would be interesting is if you could find a bow that had limb pockets similar to the older hoyts--have pocket angle adjustable. Seeing how many people love to tinker...could have a lot of fun playing with angles to get the right feel/performance you're looking for.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Here is the link to tradtalk's Warfin' Wall:

http://tradtalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

The bad news is that one of the guys who made the ILF adapter plates passed away. I'm not sure if anyone else is making them now.

Please post the results of this project.

Allen


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks guys, ya I have been wanting to do it for a while too. I have a couple recurves already. The one I shoot is a 50 pound impala by régime but I get pretty tired after 100 or so shots so I wanted it to come in around 40 to 45 just to make it a bit easier and fun to shoot. I have shot a recurve up to 74 pounds(had the opportunity to try it so I had to lol). I just have these 2 bows that no one has shot in years. Thought I would try to make good use of them. I'll check on tradtalk.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

aread said:


> Here is the link to tradtalk's Warfin' Wall:
> 
> http://tradtalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33
> 
> ...



don't know if you're talking about the same guy but the guy here at hawkeye manufacturing will make plates...also has riser from american archery
http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Ar...259?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23351c3c53

if memory serves, they went for about 100 bucks for the set


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## Archerdog (Dec 26, 2008)

http://warfbow.weebly.com. Try this site. Lot of good info


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

Skip the plates, get Sam (warfbow on facebook, and the link in the previous post) to machine real i.l.f. pockets directly in those risers.

As far as I know, the the Jennings Black Lightning and Black Bear are identical, except for the badge - probably the best and easiest riser to "warf".

You can bolt Samick Sage limbs (or Polaris limbs, and probably others) directly to those risers without any modification to the riser, but you might have to sand < an eighth of an inch or so off the end of the limbs, and maybe add some material to the sides of the limb pocket to keep it straight. 

But, real i.l.f. pockets will make it possible to use the huge variety of draw weights and lengths available in ordinary i.l.f. limbs.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

I would like to be able to switch it back to a compound again later if I want. The problem with shipping it to Sam is I am in Surrey BC Canada and the shipping would be pretty expensive. I would like to do it myself if possible.


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## Dakota6gun (Nov 27, 2007)

Aren't the Black Bear and the Black Lightning risers the same? I know on some models they were. 

If I can ask a possibly dumb question, why switch back to compound with them. As compounds they are really old technology and if they haven't been taken care of impeccably, I'd be afraid to shoot them.

I have a set of ILF warfing plates I'd probably sell you if you paid shipping. Bought them from a guy on AT--I thought I was going to do one myself, but both Sam and Bryan (Broadside on Tradtalk) have done such nice work for me, I just send them to the experts and then do the finishing myself.

Good luck. Once you catch the Warfbug, there is no cure.

BTW, as I understand it, if you don't convert to ILF its not actually a warf--at least as the term was originally defined.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Ya I just changed my mind about switching it back. The black bear is actually a youth bow 25 to 45 pounds draw and 24" to 26" with adjustable let off. It was my first compound as a kid and i bought it new so i know it has been taken care of.I have kids and was thinking when they were big enough I could pass it on to them... But you are right technology has com a long way and youth bows are pretty abundant now.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Here are some pics

The black lightning does not seem to be a Jennings.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

And the black bear


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

That Jennings is different than other "Black Lightnings" I've seen. Not sure if it would be worthwhile - the limb pad angle_ might_ be too steep and you'd need a huge draw length to get into the working range of the limbs.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

I'm a 29" draw with my compound. I'm guessing somewhere around 28 with my recurve. Ya I'm thinking the black lightning is not a Jennings. It says made in Canada by Allen.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

The black lightning is actually an Astro Daco that was made in Canada around 88, 89 I believe. It was my dads first bow and he doesn't want me to change it so back on the wall to collect more dust. 

I have the black bear torn down to bare riser and I must say I took pretty good care of this thing. Other than a bit of dust it is mint. Limb bolt to limb bolt is 16" making this a 21" riser?


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

Right, medium limbs make a 64" bow. Shorts would make 62", longs 66".
Haha- missed the part about it not being a Jennings after all...

About the plates versus milling the riser directly, plates need to be secured with j.b. weld or screws. I had one with a loose plate and it was real loud (the paint wasn't removed before the plates were glued in, I guess). It was an awesome bow otherwise... if I were to use plates again, I'd tap holes in the riser to screw the plates down (there's room) - and probably use j.b. weld or something similar too, just to prevent noise.

At one time it was easier to find plates, but now it just seems to me that if you're going to pay to have plates made, you might as well spend it on the riser being cut. 

Some people fill the pockets with silicone or epoxy, etc., and maybe add lead shot in the lower pocket for better balance.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Because of a lack of tools and spare time, I think I am going to just get some samick sage limbs and bolt them on for now. When I have more time, I will tinker more with the ILF idea.


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## FearNot (Dec 22, 2003)

Great ideas has me thinking


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

I haven't got the limbs yet but I was bored yesterday and decided to try making a wrist sling. Its not quite finished nor is it too pretty but its not terrible.


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## big bone hunter (Dec 3, 2013)

I have the same bow "Bear Black bear" It would be neat to do the same thing!


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

I just figured I wasn't going to get much use out of it the way it was. This way I can get a lot more enjoyable times out of it.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Finally broke down and just bought a 40# Samick sage and robbed the limbs and other parts off of it. The limbs are too tight at the butt with the limb bolt bushing in the limb, so I pressed it out and the limb fits perfect. Just about an eighth of an inch gap on each side of the limb in the blackbear riser pocket. While trying to figure out what to shim the sides of the limbs with, I noticed the limb pockets on the sage riser looked to be about 1/8th" black aluminum... Hmmm. I removed the 2 little screws that hold the pockets onto the sage riser, popped them off and test fit them into the blackbear riser... They are snug but they do fit... actually they are perfect! Only problem is I had to grind corners down a bit so I could line the limb bolt hole up properly. I put some weather stripping on the bottoms of the sage pockets(to eliminate any noise or wiggle) and pushed them into the bear pockets, put the limbs on and used the original bear bolts and it came together like it was meant to be. Looks as close to factory as I'm gonna get I think. The string that came with the sage was perfect. Strung it up and fired off a dozen or so arrows at 20 yards... very respectable 4" 6 arrow groups with no tuning and way overspined(65-80) arrows. It seems pretty zippy and feels way smoother than my 50# ragim impala.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

sweet little setup...

Crap...just reminded me of a warf project I've got working. The riser is an older bear laminated wood riser- have no idea which modle it is...limbs are old Viking Archery limbs....still need to finish them out- they need final shaping (sides/tips) then clear coat.


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## Bwanasimba (May 22, 2014)

That looks awesome


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Shot it some more today and tuned it a bit. This was my first group at 20 yards with fingers and no sight.





Made some adjustments... Second group.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Put the old sight, quiver, wrist sling I made, and cable guard facing forward as a makeshift stabilizer on the bow and shot another 6 arrows...


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

And here are some sexy shots of her naked in the grass


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

And of course all gussied up


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## AK&HIboy (Mar 6, 2008)

Nice fit on the pockets. Great thinking there!


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks AK, I'm going to see if I can find some carp to stick today.


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