# is traditional archery dying??



## hydrasport205 (Feb 5, 2006)

i was at the kentucky classic this year and have been going for over 5 years and it just seems like fewer and fewer people so up each year. this year was perfect weather sunny in the 70s and there were not many vendors at all mabye 4 if that. shooting the course was still a blast as always but it just seems like its dying off. I just wanted to know if any of you feel the same way are other shoots posting fewer and fewer vendors and well as people attending??? will the children of today carry this heritage on?? please pass it on!!!!


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I think it's growing, even though tournament attendance is down. The KK is one of my favorites, but I haven't made it in the last few years due to time and money--the same reason there's a lot of shoots I won't be going to this year.

I think a lot of new folks get intimidated--thinking they have to really be a "pro" to show up, and maybe hear negative junk about shooting 3-D.

I hope the KK keeps on going--because I hope to get back to it!

Chad


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

I don't think it is dying,, now 20 or 30 years ago it was looking like it was pretty sickly but has seen a resurgence in popularity. I don't know about the shoot you mentioned maybe it conflicts with a more popular one or just doesn't offer what people are looking for or it could really be the Economy that kept people away this year. Or who knows.... Randy


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

i stopped shooting traditional competition 3yrs ago because there was never any one at the shoots now when i go to shoots here in colorado the trad class is usually the largest, and one thing i can say for the trad guys they sure no how to have fun at a shoot!


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## SlowBowInMO (Dec 4, 2003)

My perception is that it's on the upswing, and has been for quite a while.:thumbs_up


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## hydrasport205 (Feb 5, 2006)

i thought that it was getting more popular but the shoot that i have been going to just seems to be dying out. maybe it is the economy or that there are aother shoots held that weekend or maybe the fact that its around turkey season who knows?? all i know is I am hooked and just wish more people would lay aside there 300 fps compound bows and just give the old stick and string a try..


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## kingvjack (Mar 26, 2008)

I was interested in taking it up and spoke with some folks looking to get help on what equipment hardware so on and so forth and I was treated so poorly because I own a compound that I decided to not associate with them and just continue shooting how I am now....
I shoot close up, on the ground and would really like to go trad, but if it means that I have to deal with a bunch of holier than thows then the hell with it.


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## bearbowsforlife (Feb 7, 2009)

I think the reason that you see less people at shoots and shows etc is that less people are willing/able to travel to them. I missed my last two shoots because I can't afford a new dozen arrows at the moment. When you have to prioritize your money more carefully hobbies and entertainment are usually the first to go.


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## jetthelooter (Feb 9, 2009)

it is more liekly the folks that tend to shoot without sights and lean towards longbows and recurves are not as prone to events like that and lean more towards hunting and recreation shooting.


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## J0nathan (Jan 10, 2009)

I don't know if it is just my location, but at my archery club, only one of sixty-odd people shoots traditional: me.


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## Teucer (Aug 19, 2007)

*Recession times*

From what I've seen and heard, it's been an off year for bow sales. You see it now in the compound sales being discounted. Traditional bowyers are not selling like they used to. A good custom bow is going to tag you pretty high. 
But the one area that's hopping is the used bow sales. You can get great used bows at unbelievable prices. Up to half off on a used bow in great to excellent condition. This year I picked up a Howard Hill Wesley Special, mint condition, 350. That's 200 less new. Even custom bowyers are giving better quality woods for better prices. It's a tough economy to travel for shoots. Maybe it's time we all learned how to craft our own. Back to basics. Now where's my rasp.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

idk. i know i love it and im going more and more into it everyday. there alot you can do with a recurve thats more fun than a compound. cant wait to get my new arrows and go shoot some 3d with my bear.


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

I think its growing and we're dying


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## suwat (Feb 1, 2008)

*Traditional Dying ??*

Went to a charity shoot for cancer with a friend this Spring. out of 120 + archers we were the only ones shooting "Traditional". Recurve and Flat Bow.
Basically a stick and string. Needed to beat 600 to be in the shoot off so we weren't even close. 401 and 389.
The group I shoot with is mostly all traditional with a few wheelie bows. I am happy to say that some are coming over from the "Dark Side" to join us. But I think that it may be dwindling in our area.


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## longbowdude (Jun 9, 2005)

The KK has been dying since they removed the competition. On top of that you have the economy not helping things too. Its a 3-4 hour drive for me and thats just a little far to drive for a fun shoot.


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## Joe Martin (Dec 26, 2007)

jetthelooter said:


> it is more liekly the folks that tend to shoot without sights and lean towards longbows and recurves are not as prone to events like that and lean more towards hunting and recreation shooting.


I agree with this, and all that has been said about traditional archery not dying, but this reply really stood out when I read it.

I belonged to one of the oldest buckskinning clubs (est. 1970) in this country and have been involved with the club for 15 - 16 years. Over these years I have seen more and more folks come out with their traditional Longbows and AFB's in recent years then what I have ever seen. Just about all of the traditional muzzleloading clubs I know of have made room for traditional archery and I believe anyone would be hard pressed to find a buckskinning club that doesn't have traditional archery as one of the main events. Even the NMLRA has a good turn out with their traditional archery program.

I personally feel it is on the rise, but it's also something we don't see on the surface of what we traditionalist do and enjoy on quite a few weekends each year. 

The biggest (just about every bit that I know of), of the media coverage for archery goes to the modern archers and the most modern equipment. Of course that seems to be where the big money is at right now, but for me and many others it is the traditional side of archery that we enjoy. And at a lot less expense I might add if you make your own bows and arrows, and/or shop wisely.

If anything, I'd say it's on the rise, or at the very least traditional archery hasn't lost any ground IMHO.


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## Jack NZ (Apr 7, 2006)

Where I live,,real Archery is on the increase.
I spent 20 years shooting targets alone,but over the last 10 or so years there has been a steady increase in numbers shooting 3D ect.
Today about 20 shooters with recurve or longbow make up the total 100 that will shoot the average 3D series shoot here.
There's more longbowers but the recurve class is most competitive.
One guy owns the longbow class so it's really a comp' for second place there.
that number is about 1/2 of those hunting with stringbows but not shooting targets of any kind.
I turn at lest 2 from the dark side every year.
Somebody that just wants to learn archery will turn up at the club when nobodys looking "an I will brain wash them on "real" archery before any of the "other" 'wheel" crowd can get a word in.
I can sell fun to anybody,and light weight recurves are fun,we have them from 10-20lb at the club.
It's to easy really.
It's growingt.:set1_draught2:


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## Raider2000 (Oct 21, 2003)

I started out shooting a recurve 30 some years ago & ofcorse I fell for the training wheels & let some of my true skills go away, I've been shooting my Bear Grizzly off & On for 20+ years but only recently have I made it a mission to become the arrow again & I figure that as long as I continue the path that I've set before myself I'll have the confidence to go into the Deerwoods come opener in October.

Now the local big stores here cater to the wheelie guy-n-gals with a big push for the Crutchbows so to get any supplies it's either travel 1.5 hours or order online but I can't say that the traditional group is dwindling just have learned to do more on their own.


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## Ammohouse (Jun 9, 2007)

I don't think its dying, I think its getting stronger.
I have a few friends that still have their wheels bows, but also have trad bows and have started finding out what I've been telling them...Trad is fun.
I think shoot attendence being down may be from gas prices, unemployment...etc.
We don't have shoots in my area so we don't make shoots. We do however get together and do some stump shooting in the Black Hills.


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## Night Wing (Feb 4, 2009)

I shoot trad equipment strictly now. My 3 compound bows have been gathering dust since 2002. I started out with a recurve bow 43 years ago, went to compound bows and then back to recurves and longbow. I like the simplicity of trad archery tackle. No constant tinkering with sights, peep sights, etc. I strictly hunt with my recurve and hybrid longbow. I shoot my bows at my home. I was surprised to find many people in my state that shoot trad bows. There at least 3 others that live near me or within 30 minutes of me. The only shoot that's a short drive for me is in Chester, TX. If one looks at the membership of the Trad Gang traditional archery site, they have over 20,000 members now. When I joined in 2006, TG had around 9,200 members so in my opinion, traditional archers are on the upswing.


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## 'nothernoob (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm teaching my 3 boys:set1_STOOGE2: and there isn't a compound bow, pin sight or mechanical release in the house!:hand:

So I'm doing my part to keep it going!:icon_salut:


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Huge turnout at the TN Classic, even with the thunderstorm warnings.........

Chad


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## Okie1bow (Jul 26, 2006)

*Trad. Growing or no ??*

The great'st boost to the sport in the U.S. has been the wheel bow. Having said that, it has been the highest boost to Archery in general; thus Trad shooting also. In Oklahoma we see many new all Trad. clubs and not just 3D either. The population growth in wheel shooters also helps the re curve and stick bow shooters growth.[some finally come to their senses!] I see the demographics changeing a bit but I also see Trad. growth. The annual McAlister Ok. shoot draws 1200-1400 shooters annually and the Bois D' Ark Flatrock shoot in Springfield Mo. will gather 5-600 annually; all Trad. All FITA is a form of Trad. Much ASA indoor is Trad. Personally, I've always prefured Trad., however we can not ignor the growth in all forms of this great sport.


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## cnorth (Aug 4, 2006)

I do not think trad is dying. I feel like that there will be otherrs like myself who want to try something new. I have only been it for about 6 months. I shot compound for about 24 years. I use to love shooting and hunting, but for some reason the passion dropped off. Therefore I went to trad. Now I feel like a kid with his first bow. Trad has brought back the excitement and the challenge again. I find myself shooting a lot more and I can't wait for deer season. I do not get to go to shoots like I would like, but I am hoping that will change next year.


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## lastmanout (Jan 5, 2008)

I visit the local Hoyt dealer to shoot inside during cold weather. I am kinda famous - only because the only guy not shooting wheels is ME! Some guys show intersest and take a few shots, some guys reminise about the old days, younger folks look at me like I am a dinosaur, some must think I am too cheap to buy a modern wheelie. The funniest part is offering someone a few shots from my recurve and they jump back like I was handing them a live rattlesnake !!! Oh well, I do enjoy the simple stick 'n string much more than my old compounds, and they are not as expensive as the compounds with all the accessories. I hope Traditional stays and grows. I my area it can only grow, cause it is pretty much dead right now.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

I think it is very regional. If you accept Okie1bow's claim that FITA is trad (which I do) then that is the only segment of "traditional archery" that is showing any growth in my area and that's mostly through JOAD. Recurve shooting at Field and Indoor events is down to almost non-existant. My shooting buddy and I have several times been the only recurves at state championships.

Dave


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## goblism (Apr 12, 2007)

at my local range i only see 2 other people shooting trad, the one has a completely decked out olympic bow with sights, stab, the whole 9 yards. and the other guy shoots mostly compounds but i will see him shooting longbow and recurve from time to time. i am shooting my hybrid 90% of the time i am down there


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## Wyvern Creations (Sep 20, 2006)

Here is another perspective...As an owner of an archery store I have the choice to sell compounds, crossbows, and trad equipment. With compounds and crossbows I have large manufacturers that provide product in a range from entry level to high end that retains a fair profit margin and manufacturer support with in many instances territory protection. On the trad side I hear all the time that "there are no trad shops". Well, lets look at that for a moment..Bows: you have the choice of either $89.95 POS's or $700+ "high end" bows that are decent in many respects, but are still mass produced. At this point there are so many bowyers out there now that you can get a custom bow for that price that why would you even consider buying an "off the shelf" bow? That limits the average dealer to either the $89.00 bows, or a collection of Martins that will not sell at the MAP they require because you can get "Freds Bows" to make you one "custom". There go your bow sales. Arrow sales are about the same. Your average guy that wants a "trad shop" wants to go in and paw thru an extreamly expensive pile of shafts to pick out the 12 he wants the "may" buy the feathers to go with them. Again, no real money in it there either for the investment. Other than that there is really not much else that you can sell that would make it worth your while as a retailer to invest in trad product. That is the problem...if you dont have retailers offering a range of product to potential new customers they will offer what they can make money on and that will be a compound. New archers do not even get the chance to be offered trad as an option on the retail level. Is trad growing?? yes, but not where you would think. It is almost underground now and it is small groups and individuals that attract new archers to the sport as a curiosity or a "more challenging" addition to their modern equipment. till it becomes profitable for archery stores to promote trad it will continue to "die" on that end. I personaly think that is a shame as I myself shoot a long bow and wood arrows and would love to sell more trad product but either the demand is not there, my cost on the product is about what you can buy it for mail order, or there is no manufactuer/distributor support to make it a viable business option for me. Sad, but true.

Wyvern


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## Bullseyebabe (Mar 30, 2007)

I've only been shooting the bow for about 3 years. I shoot both compound and traditional, I actually perfer traditional. The problem that I have is that there are NO other women shooting traditional. I have been to shots in Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma the most women that I've shot with were three. I don't mind shooting with the guys - most so the time they seem to be a little more competive which I like. 
Both my husband and I have met a lot of fine folks shooting archery so we will continue to shoot -


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Well, I live in Germany and went to a 3-D shoot last Sunday. There were over 230 archers there, and only 7 shot compound. All the rest was longbow, flatbow, recurve (both modern target and wooden). I'd say the sport has immensely increased the past few years, in particular 3-D shoots.


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## Bowdon (Aug 17, 2004)

What we call traditional archery now died in the mid 70,s and the compound companies took off with all kinds of new companies starting up. You could buy a used recurve bows for $10 because every one was trying to get rid of them to get a compound. I remember some starting to make custom recurve bows in the early 80's because all the major companies didn't make them any more. There was no market for them. The bowhunters numbers was really taking off. I got me a new costume 65 lb recurve bow in 82 or 83 and shot it for three years. I was beating all most all the compound shooter at rag. stakes with it on the 3 D range instinctive. I broke a BB range record at one of the big ranges were I lived, I shoot a 536 out of 560 with it on a 3D range with the compound shooters. I took 3 or 4 deer a year with it and it was just as easy with a recurve bow hunting, but after loosing a couple deer with it with good shoots with less penetration. With only getting one lung hits because of penetration and being the only one around shooting one I went back to the compound bow. I have never looked back. The traditional market is every small. Thats way most pro shop don't have many of them on hand and you order them on the Internet. Local shops just can't afford to have them on hand the market isn't that big. Is it's dieing I don't think it will die. there will be always some stay with it. The average Joe Blow will try it and after a while and will quit or go to the compound. In the old days we had so many that start and than quit. Thats way archery never took off tell the mid 80's and is what it is today. We need the numbers to have a season to hunt. Power is in numbers. Way would a state bother to have a season for a few traditional hunters. Archery still has one of the biggest turn around. People starting and than quitting than most sports. We owe a lot to the compound bow. More hunters, better equipment, pro-shops and most of all a hunting season. When I started you had to buy your things out of a archery catalog you couldn't just go to a pro shop and buy some thing. I would wait two weeks to just get nocks for my arrows. There were only a few bowhunters around and haft of the ones I started with quit because they hit a deer and lost it or they couldn't hit any thing.


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## Cyrille (Nov 30, 2008)

I have shot trditional archery off and on since the 1950's. I bought a Ben Pearson recurve then and shot it intermittenly[minus 6 yrs in the Navy] until the early '70s' when I "traded" up to a Ben Pearson Compound. that "bow" wood and fiberglass laminated shot it for one hunting season and bought another Ben Pearson recurve. Got into the S.C.A. in the '90's and traded down to target class weights with traditional recurves (no wheelies allowed)
I consider myself to have been have been a "trad." since the 1950's I now own 4 recurves, soon to be 5. Two LBs and the old BP "wheelie" I shoot wooden arrows as opposed to those of "man-made" material.
I will be {hopefully} getting back into hunting this year after an eight year hiatius in the SCA a 5 year layoff after leaving the SCA I"ve been shooting a "horse bow" for five years but not hunting with it. So there you have it.
I was a trad. am a trad. and will probably remain a trad. for the rest of my days. Is traditional archery dying? 
emphadiclly NO! I recently brought my son into the Trad. archery game, he's interested, but not very active yet what with work and all but at least he's "in"


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## Jack NZ (Apr 7, 2006)

Bowdon said:


> What we call traditional archery now died in the mid 70,s and the compound companies took off with all kinds of new companies starting up. You could buy a used recurve bows for $10 because every one was trying to get rid of them to get a compound. I remember some starting to make custom recurve bows in the early 80's because all the major companies didn't make them any more. There was no market for them. The bowhunters numbers was really taking off. I got me a new costume 65 lb recurve bow in 82 or 83 and shot it for three years. I was beating all most all the compound shooter at rag. stakes with it on the 3 D range instinctive. I broke a BB range record at one of the big ranges were I lived, I shoot a 536 out of 560 with it on a 3D range with the compound shooters. I took 3 or 4 deer a year with it and it was just as easy with a recurve bow hunting, but after loosing a couple deer with it with good shoots with less penetration. With only getting one lung hits because of penetration and being the only one around shooting one I went back to the compound bow. I have never looked back. The traditional market is every small. Thats way most pro shop don't have many of them on hand and you order them on the Internet. Local shops just can't afford to have them on hand the market isn't that big. Is it's dieing I don't think it will die. there will be always some stay with it. The average Joe Blow will try it and after a while and will quit or go to the compound. In the old days we had so many that start and than quit. Thats way archery never took off tell the mid 80's and is what it is today. We need the numbers to have a season to hunt. Power is in numbers. Way would a state bother to have a season for a few traditional hunters. Archery still has one of the biggest turn around. People starting and than quitting than most sports. We owe a lot to the compound bow. More hunters, better equipment, pro-shops and most of all a hunting season. When I started you had to buy your things out of a archery catalog you couldn't just go to a pro shop and buy some thing. I would wait two weeks to just get nocks for my arrows. There were only a few bowhunters around and haft of the ones I started with quit because they hit a deer and lost it or they couldn't hit any thing.


Bowdon,

You make America sound kind of back ward,,,,,,,,I don't belive you.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

*What in the world is REAL ARCHERY?*



Jack NZ said:


> Where I live,,real Archery is on the increase.


What exactly is "real Archery"?

Aloha.... Tom  :beer:


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## Bowdon (Aug 17, 2004)

Jack NZ You make America sound kind of back ward,,,,,,,,I don't belive you

You mean you trade your four wheel drive truck in for a model A car or a horse ? I'm just telling how it was when I started shooting. I could count all the bowhunter in my town with my fingers and knew all of them in the 60's when I started. I sure couldn't do that now. America is about progress not going back wards in life. America is about a living a better life and the majority make the laws. We are a free people to do what we want as long as they are with in are laws that are placed upon us. There are people out there trying to get laws past to stop us from bowhunting. There are three kinds of people out there bowhunters, anti hunter and the majority who don't care one way are the other. The winner are going to be the group who gets to them on there side first. To save bowhunting are to pass laws to stop it.


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## gkonduris (Sep 10, 2007)

*Very Popular Here*

Not here in my area (Spokane and Northern Idaho)..........We have a pro shop in the Spokane area that specializes in traditional bows and gear. Holds special events just for kids. I "think" he's one of, if not the largest traditional bow shop in the country. Great family business.

GK


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Wyvern Creations said:


> Here is another perspective...Bows: you have the choice of either $89.95 POS's or $700+ "high end" bows that are decent in many respects, but are still mass produced. At this point there are so many bowyers out there now that you can get a custom bow for that price that why would you even consider buying an "off the shelf" bow? That limits the average dealer to either the $89.00 bows, or a collection of Martins that will not sell at the MAP they require because you can get "Freds Bows" to make you one "custom". There go your bow sales... That is the problem... I personaly think that is a shame as I myself shoot a long bow and wood arrows and would love to sell more trad product but either the demand is not there, my cost on the product is about what you can buy it for mail order, or there is no manufactuer/distributor support to make it a viable business option for me. Sad, but true.
> 
> Wyvern


Just read an article on the 2009 ATA Trade Show in Indianapolis. A German Trad manufacturer, Bearpaw, sells excellent quality longbows and recurves at moderate prices, say between $200 and $500. He was at the show and stated in an interview that he could have left for home after the first day, because he already had SO MANY ORDERS from distributors, that production will be backlogged. Who is selling this stuff?

Both Samick and Ragim have a moderately priced traditional line, and if you're selling some of their products anyway, you may get a good deal as a retailer.


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## Altiman94 (Jun 11, 2007)

I sure hope its not dying. I am selling all my compound stuff to devote my time fully to trade archery.


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## Wyvern Creations (Sep 20, 2006)

"Just read an article on the 2009 ATA Trade Show in Indianapolis. A German Trad manufacturer, Bearpaw, sells excellent quality longbows and recurves at moderate prices, say between $200 and $500. He was at the show and stated in an interview that he could have left for home after the first day, because he already had SO MANY ORDERS from distributors, that production will be backlogged. Who is selling this stuff?

Both Samick and Ragim have a moderately priced traditional line, and if you're selling some of their products anyway, you may get a good deal as a retailer. "
________________ 

been there and done that, but you run into issues with shipping and FET on out of USA bows. The other problem is that if you take a good look at those bows, they are "OK" but not really "great", which means you are still looking at entry level and possibly intermediate level customers at best. Again, from a retailers stand point you cant justify the amount of inventory it would take against the return of an average $250 bow sale when there is a demand for $700-1000 bows out there. I am sure alot of shops ordered them just to have in the store and get into that "niche" but I played that game before and the quality of a $200 bow gets pretty questionable at times. I had to send back this one long bow 4 times and keep swaping it till I got one that did not have grind marks up and down the riser. Needless to say that was the last one I sold of that brand. I just got tired of selling crap and the higher quality bows are not available at a retail level with enough room to make it worth your while. The other issue is that I am a "dealer" for one "trad only" supplier but they also sell mail order. So they are not only my supplier, but they are my competition! Gets pretty discouraging when as you are pulling off your order from the UPS truck you see two more boxes from the same place going to individuals in the town who just bought the parts direct. And trust me, I am only keeping this relationship because I love trad, not because it is profitable because I am now limited to selling at what they sell it for and that leaves pretty much no profit after shipping. The problem is that if you have the money to buy a high end bow you go to a custom bowyer most of the time (or a custom bow company like Black Widow) and that leaves the occasional dozen shafts and maybe a set of broadheads that get purchased from a retailer. Economicaly it is not practical for any retail shop to bring in higher end trad products because they dont sell, and it is not because trad is "dying" it is just that the market is not at that level. Bottom line is that if you really want to see trad take off, it would have to become main stream enough that it was profitable for every archery store to have product, and GOOD product on the shelf and I dont see that happening.

Wyvern


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Altiman94 said:


> I sure hope its not dying. I am selling all my compound stuff to devote my time fully to trade archery.


It can't be dying! Just log onto this site any time day or night and look at the number of viewers per board. At any given time there will be more folks viewing the Trad Board than any of the other boards. Sure, compound archery is king of the hill in North America, but from what I can tell, Trad archery seems to be growing in popularity.

As I've said, the European situation is the other way around, with FITA target archery dominating, then Trad archery (in particular in the 3-D scene), followed by field archery. Compound archery plays only a marginal role in most disciplines/venues over here. Maybe since bowhunting is prohibited in many countries....?


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

The weather was really bad, but we still had an excellent turn-out at the TN Classic and ever vendor I talked to said they were happy with sales. I didn't set up as a vendor, but had a few side items just to trade on and I paid for my trip and then some. 

Awful weather, awful economy and job market, but still a super turn-out and happy vendors--nope, I don't think it's dying at all.

Chad


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## dcwhite55044 (Nov 6, 2003)

If anything traditional archery should be growing given the popularity of the "Green" movement. Personally, there is just not enough PR around traditional archery to have it grow in popularity.

Not much if anyting on the Outdoor Channels, no many (if any) bows readily available at popular retailers and lets face it.....we live in a world of immediate gratification....not many willing to put the time into learning.

I see the same thing in my fly fishing world. It requires time and patience which few have and I don't see that improving anytime soon with the next generation of kids. Its up to us to teach those skills so that the sport can carry on.

In regards to using a 3D shoot as a indicator....well between the high gas prices we had and the collapse of the economy I would say people are spending their time hanging onto jobs and figuring out how to pay for their home and not really focused on 3D's. Not an indicator of traditional archery /stickbows, but more a sign of the times.


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## hydrasport205 (Feb 5, 2006)

Chad sounds like I should have been there i think next next year that would be a great weekend get away. if its better than the kk im in.. Rob


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I loved going to the KK (haven't been in a few years though), but I'd have to say that the TN Classic is better. Lots of vendors, great people, the selfbow shack, flint knapping, novelty shoots.....this one has it all, and then some.

Chad


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Wyvern Creations said:


> been there and done that, but you run into issues with shipping and FET on out of USA bows. The other problem is that if you take a good look at those bows, they are "OK" but not really "great", which means you are still looking at entry level and possibly intermediate level customers at best...the quality of a $200 bow gets pretty questionable at times.
> 
> Wyvern


Funny you mention that. While Samick makes some of the highest quality target bows, their trad line is (IMO) entry level. Bearpaw, however, is as high quality as any stock trad bow from Black Widow, Martin or Bear Archery, and that at a fraction of the cost. They are also excellent shooters (I've shot some of their models). If that's not good enough for your customer, they offer custom bows as well, but your margin of profit will sink with that, I think. Just check out their dealer's web-site:

https://www.bogensport-bodnik.de/home_gb/home_gb.html


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## webster2 (Nov 24, 2013)

Revisiting a blast from the past...


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Interesting look back Webster.

Six years later, I personally think *"single string archery"* is growing. What many people consider *"traditional archery"* is probably stagnant, if not decreasing. 

KPC


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## cubefx (May 8, 2012)

We have over 500 trad shooters this spring at TBOF shoot.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't think it is dying as much as it is on the upswing and gaining popularity. I just bought a Samick Sage 45lber and I'm LOVING it. I'm gonna try hunting with it this year. Just have lots more practice to go before I do that. I LOVE the simplicity of it. Honestly, when I get better I may lay the compound down for good. I'm getting tired of getting caught up in all the technology.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

suwat said:


> Went to a charity shoot for cancer with a friend this Spring. out of 120 + archers we were the only ones shooting "Traditional". Recurve and Flat Bow.
> Basically a stick and string. Needed to beat 600 to be in the shoot off so we weren't even close. 401 and 389.
> The group I shoot with is mostly all traditional with a few wheelie bows. I am happy to say that some are coming over from the "Dark Side" to join us. But I think that it may be dwindling in our area.


I qualified out of a trad category in a multiclass shoot but they guaranteed x number out of each class and tried to create a format that equalized across classes, ie, different distances for different classes. I think it helps if you have your own class -- at least initially -- because the gap from trad to compound is too huge.

My experience thus far is there are pockets where people are into trad and barebow (alongside everything else) and then there are areas dominated by either compound or OR, and trad/bb is dismissed. My two cents the better attended shoots are broader in their definition of trad and allow some modern aspects, ILF bows for example. Essentially barebow recurve. The more exclusive idea of woodie bows, particularly shelf shooters or selfbows, perhaps requiring wooden arrows as well, is by nature going to be niche and a throwback. Not knocking it, just saying the tighter you make the rules the fewer people will show. If people can show up with ILFs and aluminum arrows I know a few OR people who will cross over. If people have to have woodie shelf bows and wood arrows you won't get the crossover. You'll get the niche.


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## redribbon (Feb 19, 2015)

"So long as the new moon in heaven returns a bent, beautiful bow, so long will the fascination of archery keep hold in the hearts of men." Maurice tThompson


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## 4nolz (Aug 17, 2011)

since 2009....yes,yes it is-killed by aluminum risers and plastic kiddie risers and $700 foam limbs.....

------------>


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

There seems to be quite a large number of older guys around my age (late 50s & 60s) living near me who have recently switched from years of compound bow shooting to traditional archery and crossbows. 

They are bowhunters who tend to shy away from groups or organized archery events (I am not proposing that all bowhunters are like this). I doubt that one would encounter them at more social archery settings. So, their addition to traditional shooting might not be readily evident.


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## Dustin587 (Apr 15, 2015)

I can say even in my personal life I've been seeing an increase in the interest of traditional archery. I think a combination of Hollywood movies and a desire to go "back to basics" for those of us that started on compound bows has helped fuel interest in traditional archery. Bows like the Samick Sage, which are universally recommended to anyone asks for advice on which bow to buy, certainly help as well.


When I got back into archery back in April, I immediately gravitated towards traditional. I grew up in a family of hunters and we all used compound bows. I wanted to try out an archery style that was similar to how it was hundreds or even thousands of years ago.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm busy most every evenings of the week bringing up new shooters. 

My observations from asking questions are this:

1. Competitive target archery is of minimal interest.
2. Hunting in the future is of second best interest.
3. Recreational shooting is dominate interest.
4. Traditional equipment choice has exponentially increased over the past 4 years or so.
5. Younger people and older people both are part of the increase in choice of Traditional equipment
6. Overall, interest in archery seems to be growing, at least from the recreational aspect.

Getting past the initial stages of who goes on to do what with their equipment, for that, one really needs to measure with whether their competitive clubs are growing or shrinking, or, whether their bowhunter numbers for the state are growing or shrinking. That reveals those interests alone, and don't necessarily reflect what is happening elsewhere in archery. Archery is much bigger than those who go to compete and those who go to the woods.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Sanford said:


> I'm busy most every evenings of the week bringing up new shooters.
> 
> My observations from asking questions are this:
> 
> ...


Thanks for presenting me with the category of “Recreational Shooting”. I am sure that many are saying to themselves right now, “Well, duh!” But, it is new to me.

I have previously thought in terms of “Competitive Target Archery” or “Bowhunting”.

I love bowhunting. I intend to continue bowhunting. However, my annual bowhunting time combined probably represents a few weeks at most! I am a lackadaisical hunter more interested in the outdoor “hunting experience” rather than an intense desire to harvest meat. I have zero interest in trophy features of game.

I weekly (usually daily) enjoy backyard archery, outdoor archery ranges, indoor archery ranges, and roving/stump shooting.

I would feel most comfortable being placed in the category of “Recreational Archery”. Thanks for introducing me to the concept. As you pointed out, there are probably many other categories for the enjoyment of archery while I do not have the names for those categories. As a possible example, I think there are those who probably enjoy building bows and archery equipment more than anything else.


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## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

I think it is going up in interest. Vendors thou are dying like all the small bow shops. Online purchases are putting them out of business. Sad but the way it goes.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I'd like to think it is growing but me and a couple buddies are the only ones that ever post. I see a few others wandering the courses with stick bows (about the same as usual) but they never post. I guess they don't want to embarrass us. I enjoy it, but around here it is a lonely way to shoot arrows......


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

It's a lonely way to shoot arrows around here too. I work with guys who shoot 3-d leagues with compounds. I could shoot, except that they shoot on courses that are set up for compounds with few targets under 30 yards and some way over.

There aren't any single string shooters at the indoor leagues and one class for all. I'd be the only one and I just don't see the point.

I try to spend money at the local archery shop but there's almost NEVER anything there that I would ever have any use for.

So, I take my stick bows, go my own way and shop on the internet. LOL


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

when Illinois had their 1st Deer Season(1957) they sold like maybe 5000 Deer Tags b/4 compounds. Hmmmm, how many they sell now (more in Non resident than 5000). Back then Pa. & Ws. had how many compared to today. ARCHERY/Bowhunting has definitely grown. Numbers in traditional, Field, Target are less as most of these were 2 day shoots back then & are one now. 3-D of course, has definitely grown. In my area I know of two Traditional shoots held every year & great turnout.. Compound definatley the norm now but I think ALL types archery will be around a long time.. I just went to shooting Longbow again but yes, I still have 2 compounds too.


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## onlyaspike (Apr 16, 2007)

It seems to me that the sport of archery has grown in the last couple years, I think fueled by Hollywood/TV. There are more shooters at the local shoots than Ive ever seen before, but very few are shooting tradional. I went to a shoot this past weekend with a couple buddies to a course Ive never been to...My buddies all shoot compounds...I brought my recurve (and I also brought my compound). When we went into the clubhouse I got looks like I was a neanderthal (sp)...The guy said " we dont get many trad shooters here, in fact your the first one Ive seen all year". The course was TOUGH for trad equipment....I shot from the stakes in front of the bowhunter class but there were still a bunch of shots from 25-30 and I think (2) were close to 35-37 yrds.....alot farther than Im use to shooting, but it was fun. I would really like to hit a couple "trad" oriented shoots sometime this summer....Im trying to convince a buddy to buy a cheap recurve....IMO, there isnt another form of archery thats more fun to shoot.


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## Dustin587 (Apr 15, 2015)

MGF said:


> It's a lonely way to shoot arrows around here too. I work with guys who shoot 3-d leagues with compounds. I could shoot, except that they shoot on courses that are set up for compounds with few targets under 30 yards and some way over.
> 
> There aren't any single string shooters at the indoor leagues and one class for all. I'd be the only one and I just don't see the point.
> 
> ...


I know the feeling about the archery shops not having what you need. The ones I visit look at me like some exotic animal when I ask them for the items I need! I tried for ages to get properly spined arrows from local shops, but I ended up having to start shopping online. Some would say they didn't have what I need. Others would try to get me to buy stuff that was completely wrong for my setup.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Yes...it is...just like many other activities that require "effort or skill"...I live in south Florida and can't remember the last time I seen anyone yanking on a claim rake or spinning out a cast net...if there "isn't an app for that" or "it can't be bought" and involves little to no "immediate gratification"?...it seems folks just pass on by with a...."move along...nothing to see here"...demeanor. 

So yes...Hollywood may instill the random short lived spikes here and there from time to time but traditional archery is going the way of the buggy whip.


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## Will Tell (Mar 10, 2014)

Another question is compound shooting dying. More and more crossbows are showing up and more people starting out in archery are buying crossbows. Number one reason is you sight them in and you become a very good shot with no practice. Check out your local archery shops, they're all selling crossbows and alot of them. Crossbows are here to stay.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Ask anyone in the industry and they will tell you traditional archery is on the rise not the decline 

so far this year every shoot I have attended had better turnout than prior years 

New products are coming and there is a ton of interest in shooting single strings 

It is true hunting is on the decline but you could not tell that by the way the big companies are coming out with products or by the amount of hunters here in the PA woods 

if anything crossbows and single strings are eating up a portion of the compound market

Now I do believe that the buckskin and wood arrow crew and snap shooting is dwindling off and people stepping into single strings are looking for accuracy and repeatable performance 

Just this past weekend a compound guy bought one of Rays Hybrid longbows


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

JParanee said:


> Ask anyone in the industry and they will tell you traditional archery is on the rise not the decline


JP, this is very true. The reasons when you ask folks is varied, and I would say that the movie stuff at one point had some impact on a certain crowd of them, but it's not the driving force of the majority of them. I would say that if folks are not seeing the drive increase, it's an area thing, and mostly, their backyard area is limited geography and social contact. 

I have been seeing an increase in the more primitive stuff as well. All wood bows, self-nocks, buckskins, etc., and most of that is from folks who meet and compete in role play venues and clubs. It may not be the WA or NFAA, but it's a huge number of archers very few of us know exist, and which shoots attract numbers many formally sanctioned shoots can't reach.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

This is an old thread. 

Here's my .02 to the original question: Is traditional archery dying?
Well, I can only hope it is. 

"Traditional" archery was/is a made up marketing term by a few archery companies, (mainly Bear) to sell their recurve bows when compounds became mainstream. That in itself wasn't a terrible thing, but the way "traditional" archery has devolved in a number of circles IS a terrible thing, IMHO. Except for a few (and a mean a few) who have actually learned to shoot a "traditional bow" properly - and that means accurately passed spitting distances, as far as accuracy is concerned US "trad" archery is a joke. In my neck of the woods (meaning local clubs and ranges), there's a fairly large "trad" population. I would conservatively guess that about 80 - 90% of those "trad" shooters have one thing in common. They suck. 20 yards is considered "long range" and a 12" group accurate. They are charter members of the overbowed and "anchor, we don't need no stinkin' anchor" clubs. The guys who actually can shoot and yes, they do exist, are usually the standouts. 

I firmly believe that a lot of people embrace the "trad" concept because it welcomes mediocrity (or worse). That's not really accepted in any of the other archery disciplines, be it compound, Olympic, crossbow, even modern bare bow. 

Maybe it's time we lost the notion of "trad" and just got back to "archery", which by definition is the SKILL of using a bow and arrow. 
So, is "trad archery dying"? Unfortunately not, but I wish it were. 

Joe -

I'd love to be able to agree with you, but I still see these jokers every time I'm at a range, any range. Probably do in no small part to the lack of qualified instruction in the beginning. Usually by the time some of them come over to me for help, they need a lot of remedial work, just to get back to ground zero. And frankly, there's only so much of my own shooting time I'm willing to loose.

Flame away,

Viper1 out.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

I still maintain that while single string archery is on the increase, what is usually considered "traditional archery" or "trad" (which by the way, is often referred to by many who do it as more of a "lifestyle" than an activity) is stagnant or shrinking.

KPC


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

JParanee said:


> ..................................Now I do believe that the buckskin and wood arrow crew and snap shooting is dwindling off and people stepping into single strings are looking for accuracy and repeatable performance.............................


I do not dispute or affirm (just don’t know) whether the buckskin and wood arrow crew and snap shooting is dwindling off. I do not dispute that new people stepping into single strings are looking for accuracy and repeatable performance. In my particular case, I can’t really think of any drawbacks or any sort of grief that could ever possibly result from accuracy and repeatable performance. Accuracy and repeatable performance are desirable period! I am, however, willing to make sacrifices and tradeoffs for balance (an FUN). This includes sacrifices in accuracy and repeatability.

I have never worn buskins (they look cool). I don’t snap shoot and cannot imagine personally enjoying that method of shooting. But, I have discovered a strong attraction to adequately functional bows with the simplest possible designs.

When I traded in my compound bows after 25 years of shooting them for new traditional bows and my first crossbow, I already had six traditional bows that I had picked up here and there over a 49 year period. 

I wanted to start with the lowest possible draw weight of my two oldest shoot off the bowhand longbows. At first I felt handicapped and rather mistreated that pragmatic circumstances forced me to utilize such old obviously inferior bows. They didn’t even have a proper arrow shelf! After I found the right arrows, they became a complete joy to shoot. They are so beautifully simple and functional. They do not even have side plates (other than the riser wood) or arrow rest pads (other than my bowhand). They are just relatively straight sticks and strings with nock sets. So simple!!! Nothing to adjust or go wrong!!!! Beautiful!

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am currently most often shooting my new Bear Montana longbow – LOL.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> This is an old thread.
> 
> ...


I resemble your remarks – LOL. Were you speaking specifically about me or with me in mind? – LOL

I enjoy archery. My meager expendable income helps a little to support archery. I encourage others, particularly my young nieces and nephews, to participate in archery.

Why should I change the way I pursue archery to meet the lofty goals of anyone else? Why should I be forced to change great fun into work or drudgery?

I do not need to achieve great skill or compete. I do not need to further the technical advancement of archery equipment or overall proficiency of archery techniques. I just need to improve and achieve sufficient for my FUN. Fun is my only goal. If I am having fun, then I am a totally successful archery champion. Where is my medal? – LOL


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

MGF said:


> It's a lonely way to shoot arrows around here too. I work with guys who shoot 3-d leagues with compounds. I could shoot, except that they shoot on courses that are set up for compounds with few targets under 30 yards and some way over.
> 
> There aren't any single string shooters at the indoor leagues and one class for all. I'd be the only one and I just don't see the point.
> 
> ...


I have not gone to a 3D this year at all - did 3 or 4 last year but they were all 'long range novelty shoots' at least that's what I call a 3D that has way too many shots in the 40 and 50 yard range (Trad and Youth stakes - compounds even longer). Most guys stuggle to keep all their arrows on a NFAA face at 20 yards let alone hit a deer vital at 42 or skunks at 30+ yards. Just can't get excited about that, so I doubt I'll go to a 3d this year.

I have shot leagues the last few years. Most times I am the only recurve shooter. Last season a guy did buy an Oly rig and has started shooting, so that makes 2 indoor recurve shooters (sometimes). Pretty crazy in a town of 50,000 that draws from smaller towns to about twice that many shooters. That fact alone may be the demise of my Traditional shooting. I like to shoot with people and have others to shoot and compete with. I really need someone to push me to get better.

My local shop will order anything I want, but it would be nice to try a few items without buying - I have spent more than my share in the classifieds. I'm not in Jinkster's league, but have gone through some gear!


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> This is an old thread.
> 
> ...


Sad but true............


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Sanford said:


> JP, this is very true. The reasons when you ask folks is varied, and I would say that the movie stuff at one point had some impact on a certain crowd of them, but it's not the driving force of the majority of them. I would say that if folks are not seeing the drive increase, it's an area thing, and mostly, their backyard area is limited geography and social contact.
> 
> I have been seeing an increase in the more primitive stuff as well. All wood bows, self-nocks, buckskins, etc., and most of that is from folks who meet and compete in role play venues and clubs. It may not be the WA or NFAA, but it's a huge number of archers very few of us know exist, and which shoots attract numbers many formally sanctioned shoots can't reach.


Good points my friend 

It is all what you are exposed to


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

here in texas traditional archery is huge, their isnt a whole lot of traditional archery bow shops here, but their is a huge traditional archery following, lots of recurve championships throughout the state, lots of 3d shoots, lots of gatherings, lots of recurve/longbow bowhunting only areas....traditional archery is on an extreme rise in texas


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> This is an old thread.
> 
> ...


Great stuff Viper and I agree 

I see a lot of the older guys and I ain't young still shooting this way and regretfully if they are bringing people into the sport they teach them the same bad stuff 

But last year at Denton a very popular teacher of what we call not the best way to do it had pitiful turn outs and Joel Turners clinics were full 

Times are changing and there is a a whole new breed of archer that is stepping up to the stake 

They are not happy to just hit foam 

I never liked the word trad anyway


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

fallhunt said:


> I do not dispute or affirm (just don’t know) whether the buckskin and wood arrow crew and snap shooting is dwindling off. I do not dispute that new people stepping into single strings are looking for accuracy and repeatable performance. In my particular case, I can’t really think of any drawbacks or any sort of grief that could ever possibly result from accuracy and repeatable performance. Accuracy and repeatable performance are desirable period! I am, however, willing to make sacrifices and tradeoffs for balance (an FUN). This includes sacrifices in accuracy and repeatability.
> 
> I have never worn buskins (they look cool). I don’t snap shoot and cannot imagine personally enjoying that method of shooting. But, I have discovered a strong attraction to adequately functional bows with the simplest possible designs.
> 
> ...


Fall 

I'm with you and I have seen guys like Jimmy Blackmon shoot self bows quite accurately  

It's not your equipment it's how you shoot it ..... That's for sure


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

fallhunt said:


> I resemble your remarks – LOL. Were you speaking specifically about me or with me in mind? – LOL
> 
> I enjoy archery. My meager expendable income helps a little to support archery. I encourage others, particularly my young nieces and nephews, to participate in archery.
> 
> ...


Archery is many things to many different people and no ones reasons are more valid than anyone's else's


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

GEREP said:


> I still maintain that while single string archery is on the increase, what is usually considered "traditional archery" or "trad" (which by the way, is often referred to by many who do it as more of a "lifestyle" than an activity) is stagnant or shrinking.
> 
> KPC


Maybe that's part of what aspect that is losing popularity and that some folks are missing, the role they liked to play. I mean, where is the defining line between a "lifestyle" and "role play"? 

If you dress for work and play 360 days of week one way, then put on the bow and garb to go in the woods the rest, that's not much different than the person who dresses appropriately and takes their bow to Ren Faire Week but operates differently the rest of the year.

We all have our interests, but maybe we assigned what is mere role playing as a true lifestyle - we know there are tons of books and vids to support our fantasy if we want - either way we choose.

I like to just shoot a bow without attachments or storyline. Some folks like an attachment. All is good, but not all keep the same support levels - archery lives on, but stories all have endings at some point.


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## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

Miracle Max: _"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. "
_
Even before compounds, the "interest" has always been in flux. Many will want to try, but few will have a sustained interest...and it's always been that way. Also, it's difficult to assess the big picture from the often limited confines of individual experience. For example, many times I'll hear and/or mention of how things were "back in the day"...but there never was a "universal" experience/application because matters tended to hinge on the availability of certain resources. Some magazines would showcase competitive archery while others leaned towards bowhunting. But either way what was being offered was only representative of a very small fraction of a much larger community...and that products/magazines sold would have been a much better indicator of archery's having a pulse.

That I've managed to shoot stick and string for nearly a lifetime without having to pay to shoot indoors or join a club is not everyone's experience...but I haven't been so far on the outside that a sense of "archery dying" is something I would have missed. And, IMO, that would be a highly improbable scenario, as there are just too many traditional bows around to assume that other humans will not eventually pick them up and put them to use.

Aside from the "advances" in "traditional" equipment that keep matters moving forward, I'm at least equally impressed with what I see happening in the realm of selfbows. I've been a long time subscriber to Primitive Archer Magazine...and I'd have comment that that segment of "traditional" is remarkably alive and well...even overwhelmingly so. 

Anyhow...I've never been much of a believer in all the "rebirth/resurgence" or however people wish to frame the interest in "traditional" archery. That said, in the ebb and flow of the more "public" side of the equation there's been high points of varying duration...but none of that has much influence on the strong undercurrent that will always keep things alive. It's just not going to die in anyone here's lifetime...so...Enjoy, Rick.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Some years back I was having a conversation with a friend who was the leader of a swing band that performed tunes from the 1940's. He was on quite a rant concerning the degradation of "modern" music. 

_"The stuff kids listen to now is garbage! It's just a bunch of watered down, three-chord noise. Now ... Glenn Miller's big band ... that was real music."_

(Oof ... I couldn't resist!) 

_"You don't dig Louie Louie?"_

_"Nah, that's garbage."_

_"Hey, do you guys play Miller's In the Mood?_

_"Oh, yeah, that's one of the great tunes."_

_"Of course, you do realize that In the Mood uses exactly the same three chords as Louie Louie."_

As they say, the following silence was deafening.


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## hannibal smith (May 20, 2015)

Compound shooters refer to themselves as "Trad" shooters now.

I will do this on occasion just to get a reaction.


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## hannibal smith (May 20, 2015)

Viper1 said:


> I firmly believe that a lot of people embrace the "trad" concept because it welcomes mediocrity (or worse). That's not really accepted in any of the other archery disciplines, be it compound, Olympic, crossbow, even modern bare bow.
> 
> Viper1 out.


Absolutely spot on. Even I fall into this trap on occasion. I sweat every errant arrow with my compound, but tolerate far more than I should with my bare bow.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

rickstix said:


> Miracle Max: _"There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. "
> _
> Even before compounds, the "interest" has always been in flux. Many will want to try, but few will have a sustained interest...and it's always been that way. Also, it's difficult to assess the big picture from the often limited confines of individual experience. For example, many times I'll hear and/or mention of how things were "back in the day"...but there never was a "universal" experience/application because matters tended to hinge on the availability of certain resources. Some magazines would showcase competitive archery while others leaned towards bowhunting. But either way what was being offered was only representative of a very small fraction of a much larger community...and that products/magazines sold would have been a much better indicator of archery's having a pulse.
> 
> ...


I agree with your thoughts about the ebb and flow of “interest”. Also, provided I did not misinterpret your thoughts, I agree that in order to determine whether Traditional Archery might be dying one would need to define Traditional Archery better. One must also define what constitutes “dying” better. The originator of the thread would like the term traditional archery to be eliminated eventually, provided that I have not misspoken on his behalf?

Some dental, physician, and other professional students are required to attend classes imparting to them the expected behavioral standards of their noble professions for which they are expected to adhere for the betterment of all. These professions also have societies regulating minimum competency, behavior, and acceptable performance. Again, this is to achieve and maintain a standard of respect and confidence for their chosen profession.

I sure hope that archery and being labeled as an archer never adopts these kinds of attitudes! Those attitudes are completely appropriate for many professions. Archery is for fun! There is not standard of respect and performance that needs to be maintained. Archery is not work or an occupation for most participants. Don’t try to make it that way. There is no reason to judge and police our ranks to any standards.

Depending on the “expert”, archery has already been around for something like 8,000 to 50,000 years. I do not expect it to die within my remaining lifetime.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

hannibal smith said:


> Absolutely spot on. Even I fall into this trap on occasion. I sweat every errant arrow with my compound, but tolerate far more than I should with my bare bow.


I would have a long way to go before even approaching mediocrity. I am only shooting for achieving adequacy for my enjoyment needs.

I was completely unaware of any official proficiency attainment levels that were an essential precondition for being accepted by others who shoot compound bows, crossbows, recurves, or longbows regardless of using sights or a bare bow. LOL


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

So as not to be misunderstood, I do hasten to add that I can readily understand setting proficiency attainment levels that are an essential precondition for being admired and respected (rather than accepted ) by others who shoot compound bows, crossbows, recurves, or longbows regardless of using sights or a bare bow. I also readily understand that such achievement levels can be and probably should be a source of personal pride.


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

Ok, so someone needs to step up and add a contrarian opinion. Most of the people who can't hit the broad side of a barn are new users who haven't been taught the difference between a riser and limb. It is up to us who do know something to offer an ounce of cordial assistance if the opportunity presents itself. At least be approachable and not the grouch pointing a disgusted finger at the offending party. Your average newly minted compound shooter can't hit a 40cm from 10 yards either so there is enough disdain for all. However, it is funnier to see a wheelie shooter missing at such close range. Let's dismount our tall horses and remove our wide brimmed hats. We all stunk to high heaven in the beginning. Most of us still do unless we've got gold hanging from our necks. No gold here. Nearly every week at the range I'm asked something by someone who's got some kind of issue. If we dismiss them we thin our own ranks. On the bright side, comparing the tournament results posted on line from years ago to now, the number of people showing up seems to be on the rise.


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## hannibal smith (May 20, 2015)

fallhunt said:


> I would have a long way to go before even approaching mediocrity. I am only shooting for achieving adequacy for my enjoyment needs.
> 
> I was completely unaware of any official proficiency attainment levels that were an essential precondition for being accepted by others who shoot compound bows, crossbows, recurves, or longbows regardless of using sights or a bare bow. LOL


Mediocrity isn't necessarily a bad thing, but "Traditional" archery is so subjective that it is a very convenient vehicle to justify a lack of performance.

With a modern compound, there is really no set of standards for recreational shooting, but we all know damn well what the system is capable of. At face value it's "easier", but in reality it is very hard. You just can't fake it.

With traditional, I can impress my neighbor by just merely hitting the target. I am not a skilled archer, but justification is so easy with a traditional setup.


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## hannibal smith (May 20, 2015)

fallhunt said:


> So as not to be misunderstood, I do hasten to add that I can readily understand setting proficiency attainment levels that are an essential precondition for being admired and respected (rather than accepted ) by others who shoot compound bows, crossbows, recurves, or longbows regardless of using sights or a bare bow. I also readily understand that such achievement levels can be and probably should be a source of personal pride.


Totally agree.


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## The48thRonin (Jun 16, 2015)

Been reading through these posts a little bit and I keep coming back to one thing in my mind. "How is Traditional archery defined?" I was previously under the impression that there were 3 generic types of archery, Modern, Traditional and Historical.

To me, Modern archery includes anything with swappable limbs, stabilizers, sights, cams etc. Traditional, is to me more about shooting replicas of historical bows composed of moderns materials/techniques. Lastly, Historical would those really hardcore individuals that use the equipment that is made essentially from scratch (whether they bought it or made it themselves).

In the end, for me the most defining aspect of what Traditional archery entails... Is a martial art, a practice of a traditional method of combat.


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

Since I've kicked around so long & I started b/4 compounds & became pretty proficient in the paper & hunting. I was blessed with being able to do well as long as I "practiced" in both. Mid 70s when compounds took over I switched & though I had shot over 500 on the field course & 300s with fingers & recurves indoors it took me quite awhile to achieve that with the compound. But then, that was with a rope spike release made from a wooden dowel & slightly curved finishing nail. (lots of busted lips back then). Regardless, we all try to do our best. Some, regardless of tackle, be it compound with all the trinkets or a recurve or Longbow made by the best bower & finest exotic woods will never become more than average & some even less.
We see it in every sport & it always boils down to the ability of the "individual". I guess what is most important is that we enjoy whatever we do & extend that hand to give those new a little help. I always continued bowhunting but I stopped competing around 1982. My G-sons (16-10-11) took up archery & convinced G=Pa to take them to some 3-Ds around 2010. Well, that rekindled my target/field interest & I shot my 1st indoor 300 round in over 30 years.
It was humbling & a far cry from my perfect & near perfect averages of those long ago years. ONE PERSON extended that hand of friendship that day & I've enjoyed many tournaments since & several with this same person. Age has taken it's toll when it comes to "ability" but I am steadily creeping forward & upward. I shoot compound & Longbow & each has it's challenges & rewards. Of course I expect more of myself when using the compound, it's a machine with me executing the shot & the longbow is a stick & string with me doing the same but only relying on MY ability.

Is traditional fading, it did when the compound came out but now, more (I think) realize they can have the best of both worlds & though it will never be like b/4 compounds, will have a great following in the U.S.. Now you go over seas & your long bow shooters will outnumber compounders..


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

ranchoarcher said:


> Ok, so someone needs to step up and add a contrarian opinion. Most of the people who can't hit the broad side of a barn are new users who haven't been taught the difference between a riser and limb. It is up to us who do know something to offer an ounce of cordial assistance if the opportunity presents itself. At least be approachable and not the grouch pointing a disgusted finger at the offending party. Your average newly minted compound shooter can't hit a 40cm from 10 yards either so there is enough disdain for all. However, it is funnier to see a wheelie shooter missing at such close range. Let's dismount our tall horses and remove our wide brimmed hats. We all stunk to high heaven in the beginning. Most of us still do unless we've got gold hanging from our necks. No gold here. Nearly every week at the range I'm asked something by someone who's got some kind of issue. If we dismiss them we thin our own ranks. On the bright side, comparing the tournament results posted on line from years ago to now, the number of people showing up seems to be on the rise.


I spend a significant amount of time teaching new single (and multi) stringed archers. Heck I'll teach anyone who asks. If it was just newbies that couldn't shoot we'd not be in the situation we are.

The problem is the people who have been shooting Trad some 20-30 years and still can't hit the barn from the inside. Generally you can spot them by the fur quivers and fancy bows.

I think letting the "Trad" label die would be a step in the right direction.

-Grant


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## Hoyt (Jul 22, 2003)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> This is an old thread.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

A couple weeks back I went to the Howard Hill Southeastern Classic in Tannehill, AL. Byron Ferguson was there and counting myself and a friend, there were over 30 vendors.....I would venture to say that there were over 100 Trad shooters there that went around the course and it was encouraging for me to see Traditional Archery draw that big a crowd........Many came from Georgia and Tenn. I wanted to shoot the 3-D targets but being a vendor kinda takes up all your time......


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## MiStickSlinger (Mar 15, 2013)

I'm only 25 but from my observations I believe it is growing. When I first found my grandfathers old bear grizzly in my basement around 12 years ago, there was no shop around that could help me getting it setup. I ordered a string from a catalog and tried to take that bow to a traditional only 3d league, I and a couple other guys were the only ones that showed up and the league was canceled on the spot. Now every shop in my area and the big box stores carry at least bow strings for trad bows.... I went to a trad league at the same place 2 years ago and it was packed to the gills. My brothers girlfriend said her son wanted to shoot a bow so I went to set him up with one of my youth compounds and his response was "I want to shoot the kind of bow Hawkeye does" It seems every couple years one of the big bowhunting magazines does a write up on the "comeback of traditional archery" It seems like traditional archery is like the 16 gauge, it goes in cycles and has a "resurgence" every few years


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## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

JParanee said:


> Ask anyone in the industry and they will tell you traditional archery is on the rise not the decline
> 
> so far this year every shoot I have attended had better turnout than prior years
> 
> ...


What Joe said.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

grantmac said:


> ...........................The problem is the people who have been shooting Trad some 20-30 years and still can't hit the barn from the inside. Generally you can spot them by the fur quivers and fancy bows.....................................


I can easily believe (but I don’t know) that a significant number of Trad shooters with fur quivers and fancy bows can’t hit a barn from the inside after 20—30 years of archery participation. If you indicate this is a problem, then it is indeed definitely a problem.

If these fur quivered fancy bowed Trad shooters are having fun and enjoying archery as they wish, then this circumstance might not at all be a problem for them. If they are unhappy with their circumstances and would like some help, it might be a problem for them.

The Pope-Young Club is a club. Clubs are rightfully as much about exclusion as inclusion. One can want to be part of a club or not. The membership can arbitrarily make a problem out of anything they choose. A club can require that an "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Blaze Orange Bowtie” MUST be worn during the shot in order for a harvest to be included in “THEIR” clubs records. The club can set any standards they wish. Violation of the way the club wishes their club’s “archery world” to be is a problem for them and anyone who wishes to please them. That seems reasonable.

I am unaware that general participation in archery is similar to joining a private club. Fur quivered fancy bowed Trad shooters are in no way obligated to assist other archers to create the “archery world” they envision as ideal. It is tuff getting others to behave as one would like them to behave. Such a “problem” will likely always remain a problem for archers seeking voluntary cooperation from other archers to create the “archery world” they envision as being best.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

To each their own I suppose, but not hitting what your aiming at sucks. There are ways to hit what your aiming at more often - I do believe that is where Grant was going with his post. Not to mention many of 'those' shooters are bowhunters - because the target now has fur does not make it easier to hit.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

centershot said:


> To each their own I suppose, but not hitting what your aiming at sucks. There are ways to hit what your aiming at more often...................................


DEFINITELY!!! I have been experiencing this “suck” accuracy quite a bit during my ongoing transition from compound bows to recurves followed by longbows. 

The good news is that I am having tremendous fun through it all. 

I am reluctant to even slightly tarnish my praise for compound bows after the 25 years of pleasure I enjoyed from shooting them. However, I just can’t deny the observation that I am currently having even more fun with recurves and longbows.

At least on the range, I could shoot 40 yards with compound bows. Less than thirty yards seemed point blank shooting. I can’t yet hit what I am aiming at with a traditional bow while still finding the entire shooting experience to be great fun.

I couldn't keep all my arrows on a 17” by 17” target at 5 yards. I slowly progressed to doing well at 5 yards. I initially could keep almost all arrows on the 17” by 17” target at 10 yard, then 12 yards (farthest possible in my yard). A recently purchased Bear Montana longbow allows me to make fairly consistent 5 inch groups at 12 yards. Don’t laugh. I am thrilled. There is an outdoor range located 30 minutes from my home. I want to extend my range beyond 12 yards (Whoa !!!!) - LOL.

My only requirement is that I never push beyond the point of ALWAYS having fun. Pain is no gain!


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

Tracker12 said:


> What Joe said.


I just bought a recurve. I shoot compound only right now...but dabbling in the traditional. I just need to feel that at 20 yards and closer I can kill with high odds. Right now, it would be a wing and a prayer to be honest. I have bouts of greatness, then the next 5 arrows are all over the bail. I think traditional is on the rise for two reasons. 

- the people that want a bigger challenge

- the fact that compounds are getting so out of control in price and technology that some just don't want to deal it anymore. 

I want the challenge and I feel like hunting is getting too commercialized...or at least people are trying to take it there. I'm against that movement so me buying a recurve is my movement back to the days of old, how it's supposed to be. The love of challenge and chase, not the love of bragging and showing off to your buddies. It seems that much of the younger crowd is moving towards that. everyone is a team this or team "fill in the blank" outdoors. Everyone is running 20 camera's and naming deer...I just want to get away from all the manistream stuff and just hunt. Stick and string is where i want to get to in time. People throwing a number on a deer before it's even tagged...I just can't handle it. SO picking up a recurve and going back old school is how i'm dealing with the movement of crazy technology. Obviously the challenge is a Pride thing for me as well. I take pride in personal goals and the amount of work and effort that goes into it.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

Early Ice said:


> ...................but dabbling in the traditional. I just need to feel that at 20 yards and closer I can kill with high odds...................................


I agree with some of your thoughts about motivations toward traditional archery, but the 20 yards or closer also depends on the game.

In the spirit of achieving maximum fun with minimum aggravation, I have considered chucking everything for squirrel hunting with a longbow.

The kill zone on a squirrel is so damn small!


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

fallhunt said:


> I agree with some of your thoughts about motivations toward traditional archery, but the 20 yards or closer also depends on the game.
> 
> In the spirit of achieving maximum fun with minimum aggravation, I have considered chucking everything for squirrel hunting with a longbow.
> 
> The kill zone on a squirrel is so damn small!


well i'm talking strictly whitetail...maybe a goose here and there. Geese I couldn't careless, I have a hard time believing you can wound many geese. I'd think a non vital kill would still enable you to run it down. 

My motivations would be the new challenges a stick and string can bring. None of my family shoots anything other than a X bow or Compound.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

fallhunt said:


> DEFINITELY!!! I have been experiencing this “suck” accuracy quite a bit during my ongoing transition from compound bows to recurves followed by longbows.
> 
> The good news is that I am having tremendous fun through it all.
> 
> ...


Nobody is laughing - we all have been there! It takes dedication and you will probably never reach the level of competency you had with a compound. Your attitude will get you a long ways - enjoy the journey.

My story is pretty similar to yours, I have been shooting compounds for 30+ years (even managed a 60X 300) then gravitated over to trad. While shooting a compound accurately is fun, it does not compare to shooting a Trad legal recurve accurately. While shooting 60X was quite an accomplishment it pales in comparison to my PB 284 25X with my NFAA Trad Legal recurve. I still shoot, hunt and enjoy my compound but it get used much less than it used to. The compound still has it's place - as do the Trad bows.


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