# Got a question about leveling a scope



## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

Ok here's my deal I have used a 4 foot level and a sure loc leveling device and have my scope level with the bow. My problem is no matter how I change my grip the bow want's to cant to the left. Now my question is does it affect anything to level my scope to my grip instead of having it level to the bow or just as long as I get it level to me and keep it there? I really wonder if it will affect things at longer distances.


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## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

It really does affect your shots at longer distances by essentially changing your center shot. Rather than accepting the fact that your bow cants, cancel that out with a V-bar to the opposite side, as heavy as necessary to keep it from canting. 

I have the same problem you do, except I'm left handed and my bow cants to the right. I think I'm just about the only guy at tournaments that has a heavy @$$ weight on the same side of the bow as the sight :doh:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi Jack,
Have you tried using a right side bar with weights to help balance things out? Just visualizing what you’re asking, I would think it would be pretty near impossible to guestimate exactly how much you cant the bow during each and every shot to make leveling the sight to you very beneficial....IMHO....:wink:


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## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

Yea to answer about the same thing both of you had said I have tried and may go back to putting a bar on the same side as the sight but I was just wondering if leveling the scope to me would work.


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## sl954 (Oct 7, 2005)

I must be missing something. 
Can't you just turn your wrist until the bubble is centered?

Steve


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

outback jack said:


> Ok here's my deal I have used a 4 foot level and a sure loc leveling device and have my scope level with the bow. My problem is no matter how I change my grip the bow want's to cant to the left. Now my question is does it affect anything to level my scope to my grip instead of having it level to the bow or just as long as I get it level to me and keep it there? I really wonder if it will affect things at longer distances.


You CAN cant your sight to allow it to show "level" as long as you adjust your 3rd axis to match it... I do this for all my setups..


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

sl954 said:


> I must be missing something.
> Can't you just turn your wrist until the bubble is centered?
> 
> Steve


That causes torque and is harder to make repeatable in longer tournaments


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## stites08 (Jun 16, 2009)

*Look here*

Try this www.archerytech.com

Hope this helps

Bob


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

As X Hunter said....YES...you CAN set your sight up to be level with your natural cant.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

*natural cant*

Good stuff under similar thread in March 09 by Bryan Johnson "Trouble Keeping Bow Level". Search this forum for "natural cant". Wish I knew how to copy a path, but hope this helps. Some very good archers shoot at their natural cant so as not to have to fight their no account lying level all day long.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I had V bars because I was told that was what I needed for the best shooting.

I then took one off, and just left one on to counterbalance the weight of the hardware on the opposite side to keep the bow balanced.

I then realized that the cant force that was applied with my most relaxed grip naturally offset the inherent imbalance of the bow with mounted hardware, so I was happy to find that removing the vbars altogether provided the most inherently level setup.

I don't see any reason why leveling the sight with the bow canted can't work, but if the cant is extreme, this will likely cause a shift in the windage adjustment as you get closer and closer, as the peep/sight alignment will be offset horizontally from the arrow path. If you shoot primarily fixed distance or long yardage, that's not going to be a problem, but if you're doing field/hunter/animal rounds where you might shoot 70 yards and then 10 feet, I think it might be an issue.

Regardless, I think it's worth trying to see how you like it. Being comfortable is key. i'd try both an offset weight, and just leveling it the way you naturally hold it.


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## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

I have tried just shooting the main bar and it's not too bad as far as staying level but it still needs just a little on the sight side. I also tried to put a few doinker weights on the tapped hole on the sight side but I didn't see a difference. I'm gonna try adjusting the scope to my cant but I just wanted to see if it would make a difference in long ranges before I just went and changed it for nothing.


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## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

TNMAN said:


> Good stuff under similar thread in March 09 by Bryan Johnson "Trouble Keeping Bow Level". Search this forum for "natural cant". Wish I knew how to copy a path, but hope this helps. Some very good archers shoot at their natural cant so as not to have to fight their no account lying level all day long.


Just looked at it, there's some good things in it.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

outback jack said:


> I have tried just shooting the main bar and it's not too bad as far as staying level but it still needs just a little on the sight side. I also tried to put a few doinker weights on the tapped hole on the sight side but I didn't see a difference. I'm gonna try adjusting the scope to my cant but I just wanted to see if it would make a difference in long ranges before I just went and changed it for nothing.


of course it will....you won't be fighting your cant anymore


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## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> of course it will....you won't be fighting your cant anymore


Touche hornet.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Good post guys, I learned something very good here....:wink:


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## sl954 (Oct 7, 2005)

This is interesting, Ive been shooting for 20 years and this never even crossed my mind.
Tonight while I'm shooting indoors I'm going to see where my bubble is naturally and take some shots with it there.
Thanks


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

outback jack said:


> Ok here's my deal I have used a 4 foot level and a sure loc leveling device and have my scope level with the bow. My problem is no matter how I change my grip the bow want's to cant to the left. Now my question is does it affect anything to level my scope to my grip instead of having it level to the bow or just as long as I get it level to me and keep it there? I really wonder if it will affect things at longer distances.


once you have leveled the sight & 3d axis, just loosen the the screws

that hold the vertical part of the sight & kick it over as far as it will go Then tighten it up. If it is not enough, you might have to elongate the mounting holes or shim the sight mount. remember that the sight does not move, it is the bow revolving around the sight.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Amazing that only three people answered your original question, Brad, Darrel, and Mike.

The important issue is that the sight bar be VERTICAL with no cant. It does not matter how far the bow is leaned over, provided the sight bar is vertical, like in plumbed vertical. AND that the bar remains vertical and the level remains perpindicular to the path of the arrow to the target, as the bow is rotated up and down for uphill and downhill, that is the 3rd axis function.

Adjusting your 3rd axis will be more trouble because the string is now out of plumb and cannot be used as a reference when rotating the bow for the 3rd axis adjustment.


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## phoenix 36 (Sep 19, 2007)

after you get your first axis set (this being the vertical travel of your scope) so that your pin/ring/ dot is over your arrow at 14 yards and 80 yards(if you shoot field) I also include 14 yards as your sight marks will begin to reverse. you can then set your second axis which may be tricky as you may not have enough travel in your sight.But if you get this all worked out you can then shoot in your 3rd axis.This is done by sighting in at 40,50,60 what ever you are comfortable with on the flat then move to an up or down hill shot of the same distance shoot some warm up shots but do not adjust your windage L/R.On an up hill shot if your arrows hit to the right move your sights third axis away from you a little, shoot again, your arrows should move to the middle.keep moving until you are in the dot.if you hit left move 3rd axis toward you.if you are shooting down hill and you hit left move sight away from you.
Good luck.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

CherryJu1ce said:


> It really does affect your shots at longer distances by essentially changing your center shot. Rather than accepting the fact that your bow cants, cancel that out with a V-bar to the opposite side, as heavy as necessary to keep it from canting.
> 
> I have the same problem you do, except I'm left handed and my bow cants to the right. I think I'm just about the only guy at tournaments that has a heavy @$$ weight on the same side of the bow as the sight :doh:


Me too! I have a good 10oz on my b-stinger 12" on the same side as my sight....


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Scott.Barrett said:


> Me too! I have a good 10oz on my b-stinger 12" on the same side as my sight....



Why does everyone try to fight the cant on a bow?It is a natural thing for most archers.
Just level the sight , then rotate the bow around the sight .As long as the sight is vertical, you will shoot down the middle at all the distances.


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## camoham (Nov 3, 2004)

maybe im using my sure-loc leveling device wrong then?

i thought you can use it at first.................to check the sight undrawn.

then..........

putting the loop on a release finger..................re-check things at full draw and adjust accordingly.

thats what i did with mine? (i thought that was the great selling point..........checking at full draw and up/downs while drawn & anchored)

i made sure the stretch line was as close to the arrow as possible.

camoham


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