# Help with daughters form



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Probably don't want to hear this but most of the time, leaning back like you describe is a sign of the archer being overbowed.

Lighter weight (mass weight as well as draw weight) will help teach proper form and stance.

Stretch bands are also good training devices.

If she is an average 10year old and not involved with lots of other sports or activities that involve upper body strength, I find 12-15 lbs is about the most a lot of these kids can pull comfortably. We have some that struggle with this light of a bow and need to go down to 8-10lbs


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## Eliteonly (Oct 8, 2011)

I have found most women archers tend to lean back. The ones that are serious about it of course get the good T form going but most lean back and shoot that way. I dont quite understand why that is. Nearly all have had correct draw length and haven't been over bowed. I would love to know the answer to this one. It is quite a difficult one to fix.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Eliteonly said:


> I have found most women archers tend to lean back. The ones that are serious about it of course get the good T form going but most lean back and shoot that way. I dont quite understand why that is. Nearly all have had correct draw length and haven't been over bowed. I would love to know the answer to this one. It is quite a difficult one to fix.


again.. overbowed! maybe not any more but when they first started shooting. Practice a bad habit long enough and it becomes permanent. "Practice does not make perfect, Practice makes permanence! Perfect practice makes perfect"

Taking up compound early on before learning good proper posture, only makes the problem worse. Not building the muscles up to lift the bow level to your shoulders, without lifting the shoulder is part of the problem. Compound bows are generally a lot heavier than lightweight recurves (especially the nice light wood or composite riser bows) so in order to get the bow up high enough to shoot, kids and adults alike, will lean back to get the bow up. Have them shoot a stretch band (lightweight) and see what happens. With a little guidance you can teach someone to raise their arms and draw without leaning back. As soon as you put a bow in their hand, or even just a weight in the bow hand, the lean back creeps back into the draw cycle. Same thing with increasing the tension on a stretch band. The lean back usually creeps back in as you add draw weight. It just feels right to fight the weight by leaning back.

The fix.

Lots of reps (and I mean lots! hundreds if not thousands) using stretch bands and very light weight equipment until the movement of lifting the bow, drawing and anchoring until it feels natural without leaning back. 
Then place one finger on the forward hip, and one finger on the drawing shoulder and have them go through the draw cycle again. 
next add some weight to the bow hand, and repeat the finger on hip/shoulder exercise again until the lean back goes away. (generally takes many hours of practice over many days or weeks to fix)
Increase weight and do again. Repeat over and over again until you reach the desired weight.

It's not an easy fix and it's not for everyone but if your goal is to get rid of the lean back and shoot with proper posture, it's a long and hard process. You really have to "want it", otherwise, just go have fun.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Here's an interesting and eyeopening document/study done by the Canadian Archery Federation.

http://www.archerycanada.ca/images/s...FCALTADM08.pdf

NOTE this is listed as a "LONG TERM archery development model" but it speaks volumes as to how so many archers are probably overbowed and don't even know it. Pages 36 and up show some recommended bow weights. If you read the document all the way through, you will get a better understanding on how they derive a lot of the recommendations.


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## digitalcassette (Oct 24, 2011)

dchan nailed it with his suggestions.

The only thing I'll add is this. I find that the best way to fix stance/posture issues is to use a full length mirror.

Let the archer SEE the issue themselves. Then you can work on correcting it.

Giving them the stretch band to use in front of a mirror is a great way to show them what exactly you are trying to work on and what it should (and should not) feel like.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Leaning back is often from a couple of different things. Over bowed is one, draw length too long is another.

For some compound archers, leaning back is the optimal full draw position. Two that I can think of are world champions Reo Wilde & Ditmar Trillus. However at just 10 years old, it's probably better to start out with the classic T.

If the mirror mentioned above isn't practical, a video camera is cheap and effective. There are dozens of great videos on youtube's ArcheryTV channel. There are videos of both compound and recurve archers. Show her how the best in the world do it, then show her how she is doing it. 

However, the main thing is to keep it fun. She's old enough to make decisions about form & technique, but young enough to be easily discouraged. Keep the enthusiasm. A few form errors at age 10 won't matter as much as a lifetime of enjoyment of the sport.

Good luck,
Allen


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

aread said:


> Leaning back is often from a couple of different things. Over bowed is one, draw length too long is another.
> 
> For some compound archers, leaning back is the optimal full draw position. Two that I can think of are world champions Reo Wilde & Ditmar Trillus. However at just 10 years old, it's probably better to start out with the classic T.
> 
> ...


It was the "kicking the hips out" that tells me over bowed. Incorrect draw length generally does not present with this symptom. It can but generally not. 

Practice in a mirror +1.


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## Stubby'smom (Mar 20, 2010)

Sometimes women shooters just naturally stand like that too. If you watch alot of women and girls stand in everyday life you will see them putting more weight on one leg or another or stand like they have a baby on their hip. My girls to it too. It's going to sound silly but tying a broomstick to the back can work because if she would lean it digs into the back. Or, have someone else initially coach her and then you can give reminders when you see her doing it. That is what has worked for my kids.


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## Durhampro (May 9, 2009)

Can you post a pic of her form? My first thought would be draw length, but that is hard to diagnose without some visuals. My daughter 14 now would lean back until we shortened her draw and it wasn't much of a change just enough that she could not get lazy on her one hip.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

Stubby'smom said:


> Sometimes women shooters just naturally stand like that too. If you watch alot of women and girls stand in everyday life you will see them putting more weight on one leg or another or stand like they have a baby on their hip. My girls to it too. It's going to sound silly but tying a broomstick to the back can work because if she would lean it digs into the back. Or, have someone else initially coach her and then you can give reminders when you see her doing it. That is what has worked for my kids.


you are right young lady, i see this a lot in the younger girls, and in a few women too and a few young boys.... this helps too, shoot a video of her while shooting. then let her see just what she is doing.......but nothing beats a coach.... mike


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## mrchaos102 (May 23, 2012)

I just went through this with my daughter. She did the same thing ...kicking the hips out. I bought her an Matthews genius and had it cranked way down. Nothing i did helped her. I even tried to help her hold her hips.

Not sure why but i ended up cracking the bow down more for something......way low. Boom... She was standing correct with no hip pop.

Lighter draw weight.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## zagyg (Nov 8, 2011)

This attached file may help a bit.

I have a now just turned 11 year old daughter shooting olympic recurve. I did a little study her stance, and had some professional assistance. I only ended up with questions and a possible answer, that worked for me. Sorry for the low quality images, but file size is limited

Luck


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## TargetOz (Jan 16, 2013)

*Good vs Bad back*



kabushnell said:


> My daughters 10 now and really wanting to improve her shooting. One thing I am struggling with is her stance and looking for some tips on how I can teach her good T stance. When she comes to full draw she is leaning her upper body back and kicking her hips forward. I am having a hard time getting her to stand up straight. Wondering if anyone has any tips on ways I can help her get a more proper stance. Thanks


I was watching this video on YouTube by erikaanear Good vs Bad back which may help. Another thing (not that I'm an expert) but apparently females have a higher centre of gravity than males, which could only lead to a different stance to males, but check out the vid I think it will help heaps, search: erikaanear title: Good vs Bad Back. 

Cheers
Steve.


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