# Sight upgrade, Shibuya vs., Sure-loc



## Chinese Tea (Mar 17, 2010)

It's not the same sight, but here's my experience with a similar Shibuya sight- 

I was using a Shibuya Ultima CP AL version for my recurve bow. Light and very smooth/easy to operate and never had any issues with it whatsoever. 
I was concerned about the threads on the aluminum extension experiencing wear/stripping and the possibility of accidentally cross threading the sight knob into it, but that fear never manifested.
The contact pads on the x-lock system are adjustable with set screws for future wear, which I think is the most crucial feature on any sight.
Previous I was using a cheap Cartel sight that would keep loosing itself and rattling every few shots. After switching to the Shibuya I never had an issue.

However, I'm unsure about buying a new one because it seems that the part that connects the block to the elevation screw is now made of plastic instead of metal.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1895212&page=2&p=1066077669#post1066077669
Is this really an issue? No idea, but it makes me a little uneasy because in my mind metal wears better than plastic on a part that will experience a lifetime of threaded metal rod rubbing against it.

That Sureloc model requires you to loosen and lock down the sight every time you make an elevation change. Therefore its an extra step compared to the Shibuya. On the plus side, you can cheaply get extra aperture holders if you want to experiment with that or want spares. Not sure if this sight is user adjustable for future wear. Then again this might not be necessary due to the lock down feature (not sure).


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Shibuya is pretty much the perfect sight. Sure-loc sadly isn't quite what it used to be. Contender-X is the intermediate option in any case.


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Get a used Quest X from someone on ArcheryTalk. Quick adjust elevation with no screw in lock down. We got one for $250 a year ago with an extra aperture and colored knob set included and I know others have had them for less.


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## rick11743 (Sep 20, 2010)

Not familiar with Shibuya, though they are highly regarded. My Quest-X is excellent, top quality, attention to detail, and very reliable.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

Just sold my Contender X and got a Shibuya Carbon....

Contender X is a great sight, easy to use and pretty much bullet proof. Set it, lock it and forget it....

The Shibuya is just a step up....no need to lock it down and it has a great range of adjustment...


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

Both are excellent sights and will give you years of trouble-free performance. The major difference is the ability to change apertures easily. The Sure-Loc offers the ability to purchase a small, $20 aperture holder which can be easily swapped out. The Shibuya requires you to purchase a major part of the sight to do the same. I happen to currently use Shibuya Dual Click Standards. Excellent sight for the money.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I really don't get that difficulty to change apertures. It only requires an allen key and if you want exact measurements, a vernier gauge. Takes less than a minute to change, I have several usually with me and change them quite often.


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## TomG (Dec 4, 2002)

I had heard that Axcel was coming with a new recurve sight. It already is on their website.
http://www.axcelsights.com/AchieveRXL.html

Just food for thought.

I still love my Copper John ANTS. It will take a lot for me to change to something else.


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

Any pics on the apature for the axel sight?

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## ladyeclectic (Dec 10, 2012)

I got a Sure-Loc Quest X from an AT member here for a good bargain. Excellent sight! Easy to work, great design, everything clicks and bites well. It's an older model but doesn't show much signs of wear, everything attaches well. I have a Beiter aperture on with a simple click-in dot and its working well for me.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

TomG said:


> I still love my Copper John ANTS. It will take a lot for me to change to something else.


I've got ANTS in my compound, sadly its short bar, short elevation so it doesn't really fit my recurve. Perhaps the best sight I've ever seen or owned. Shibuya gets very close. All Sure-locs I've had have been disappointments in some way or another, either developing rattle or requiring service or repairs. Never had any issue with Shibuyas, I've owned probably 4 different ones and still shoot one of the first ultimas that were available.


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## goodfornothing (Oct 21, 2012)

I have the Shibuya Ultima RC Aluminum and I love it. The only thing that concerns me is the same picture that Chinese Tea posted up. The plastic part of the windage that hooks up to the elevation threads must be seated right, otherwise the plastic will strip. I already see some wear because I wasn't careful seating it in the first time around. Just be careful and I'm sure it'll last for a long time.

The only other peeve that I have about the sight is that when adjusting elevation, the knob slightly squeaks when it is being twisted. Other than that, it's a great, solid sight.


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## Chinese Tea (Mar 17, 2010)

TomG said:


> I still love my Copper John ANTS. It will take a lot for me to change to something else.





zal said:


> I've got ANTS in my compound, sadly its short bar, short elevation so it doesn't really fit my recurve. Perhaps the best sight I've ever seen or owned. Shibuya gets very close. All Sure-locs I've had have been disappointments in some way or another, either developing rattle or requiring service or repairs. Never had any issue with Shibuyas, I've owned probably 4 different ones and still shoot one of the first ultimas that were available.


After my Shibuya got stolen, this is the sight I switched to. The clicks move smaller increments than the Shibuya and the curved elevation bar is unique and I think useful. The only drawbacks I've found are that it's an oz or two heavier than the Shibuya and the elevation quick adjust can be difficult to move if you're paranoid like me and really lock down those adjustment screws. Never had an issue with this sight.

It has both a recurve and a compound adapter and can be used for both provided the elevation bar is long enough for you. Then again I like using 10/32" rods period ever since I broke an 8/32" rod on my AMBO Iris aperture while shooting... I think all recurve sights should just switch over to the 10/32" standard. Of course this will probably never happen.


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

OP: You cannot really go wrong with either sight.

I personally use a Shibuya Ultima aluminum because of the finer microadjustment.

@Chinese Tea. With regards to Shibuya Ultimas-> You need to have that particular plastic to roll up and down on the metal screw because metal on metal will just grind w/o lubrication. The reason you dont really want lubrication on your sight is that crap that flies in the wind(dust,dirt,etc) will just fly into that open screw area and attach itself to the lubricant and mess up the screw part. That plastic they use is a durable plastic like they use for plastic cutting boards in the kitchen. It also easily slides on the metal screw as long as you seat it correctly whenever you put it on. I forgot the specific material.


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## Chinese Tea (Mar 17, 2010)

gumibears said:


> OP: You cannot really go wrong with either sight.
> 
> I personally use a Shibuya Ultima aluminum because of the finer microadjustment.
> 
> @Chinese Tea. With regards to Shibuya Ultimas-> You need to have that particular plastic to roll up and down on the metal screw because metal on metal will just grind w/o lubrication. The reason you dont really want lubrication on your sight is that crap that flies in the wind(dust,dirt,etc) will just fly into that open screw area and attach itself to the lubricant and mess up the screw part. That plastic they use is a durable plastic like they use for plastic cutting boards in the kitchen. It also easily slides on the metal screw as long as you seat it correctly whenever you put it on. I forgot the specific material.


During the time I used the sight this lubrication was recommended to me. 
http://www.triflowlubricants.com/Tri-Flow_Superior_Dry_Lubricant.html

It is a dry lubricant and thus does not have issues with dust or dirt attaching to it (according to the manufacturer's website - made specifically for dry and dusty conditions but also resists water).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_lubricant

I never got around to using it but the sight never accumulated any visible wear in the 1.5ish years I used it. I wasn't particularly careful with it either. Not sure how long the plastic part has been around - does anyone have any long term experience with it (3+ years?)? My plastic cutting boards have lots of wear on them...

Other sights seem to use metal on metal all the time, including my Copper John, and I've not heard about issues with them.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

My plastic bit in the shibuya sight looks just fine after using it since 2006 or so. I've never had any issues, and I haven't been using extreme care, just quick adjust it and roll it few clicks up, few down to seat it properly. If it wears, it can be easily replaced and iirc Beiter makes all the plastic parts for Shibuya.


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

Ive used mine for 5 years so far. For the metal on metal sights, do they also have the button to undo the screw to move the sight up and down by a large increment (which would require you to reseat it after adjusting)? I have to admit, ive only had some experience with shibuya and sureloc sights cause thats all our club uses (mostly shibuya).


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## Alec Potts (Jun 13, 2012)

Definitely the shibuya RC, you dont have to unlock it to adjust. Plus the sure-loc has a habit of rattling, coming loose, rusting and all sorts of other nasty stuff.


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

What about the Axcel sights, Anyone have any exprience with them?

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## Johndburk (Apr 29, 2011)

No experience with the Axcel sights, but I've been looking at them lately. They're coming out with a new recurve sight, expected to start shipping end of January. It looks like the aperature block will be a simple small piece, much like the Sure Locs.

I guess they're addressing the perceived heavy weight of their current recurve sight, the AX4500. The website is saying that it "weighs less than the 2012 top selling recurve carbon-bar bow sight". I sent mail asking about availability and pricing, and got a pretty quick response, so it bodes well for customer service.

The response said expected retail would be around $400. Yikes...


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

$400!? That's way out of my price range unless I started a kickstarter. If it does cost that much then I'm going to get the Shibuya. 

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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

For easy of use the Sure-loc Quest X is the best IMO, but performance wise both will do the same job in fact any sight could be used to shoot high scores I know an archer that uses a broken cartel sight and shoots to a level that puts him in the top 4% in the country in the UK.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Considering Shibuya is all sight you'd ever need, going for Axcel or any of other newcomers is only justified if you want something different and are willing to take a punt. Probably 75% of international competitors seem to shoot Shibuya these days, others mostly Sure-loc.

Imo weight isn't such an issue with sight, but with carbon extension you get excellent vibration dampening and also very good stiffness.


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