# Scott Backspin Review



## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

I received my backspin today after buying it Friday afternoon from the classifieds. Wanted to do a little review and compare it to my current releases.

Initial packaging:
Typical clamshell packaging. I would like to see a molded plastic to hold the release in place. It bangs around in its compartment. Nice colored insert front and back. Instructions are included in the inside of the pamphlet. Pretty basic and effective. 





First time holding the release:
First thing you will notice is that it is nice and heavy. I put it at 4.2oz on the scale. Clearly this is not a solid aluminum release. The extension is solid stainless steel and where most of the weight is coming from. A four finger will be even heavier.

Here the release is with the extension off. Two nicely countersunk bolts hold it in place. These will probably get a little rust on them so I will replace with stainless



It's comfortable, but physically a large bodied release. I would relate the overall size to a carter thumb release. The finger spread is nice and comfy, much like the longhorn pro advantage. 

The next thing I noticed is the bearing. It's nice and smooth! You can flip it around just like Levi does in the video. You can feel the release rotate when you take your thumb off. The feeling is very comparable to a whalens hooker. You will notice the bearing finger bed is flat! This is not like a longhorn pro advantage.

Here is a nice shot of the bearing:


The extension also utilizes flat finger beds! Another difference between it and the longhorn. The zenith release has a rounded index finger bed and flat middle and ring finger.
You can see the flat finger beds here:



This is a great shot to compare the finger bed shapes:


The release is shipped in "click mode" and set very slow for obvious reasons. First step get rid of the click. To do this first loosen the small set screws (1 each side) on the side of the body which lock the moon into place.

You can see it just behind the head:


Then flip the moon over and there is another set screw which tightens against the "axle". Loosen this set screw and the entire axle can be pushed out releasing the head and moon. Flip the moon and reassemble.

The head:
The hook seems a touch smaller than the longhorns hook. A little tougher to get hooked up to the loop, but still manageable. The backspin utilizes a magnet to reset the hook in lieu of a rubber band system like the longhorn. This is an improvement in my book. Although I will not hunt with anything magnetic.

Here you can see the magnet:



Comparison size wise is about the same as the longhorn. Very comparable when lining up the hooks.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Comparison size wise like I was taking about before:

Left to right:
Backspin, longhorn PA 3 finger, longhorn PA 4 finger cut, Zenith


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

You will notice I have no thumb pegs on any of the releases. That's the first thing I removed. The thumb post mounting area on the backspin is longer than the Longhorn which I am not find of. I may grind that down a little to my liking if I end up keeping the release. 

Here you can see the difference.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Backspin in the hand:


Longhorn in the hand:


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Here are some more pictures of the backspin:


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

I have only "shot" it out of my release trainer. These are all initial thoughts. I will be shooting it tomorrow and reporting back.


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Good pics, good review thus far...dying for mine to come in. I already shot one so I know I'll love it.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Release width:
Here you can see the tapers of the different releases.

Skinny to fat:
3 finger LH PA, 4 Finger (cut) LH PA, Backspin, Zenith


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

Interesting,just looking at the Backspin pic´s it looks like the hook is way more towards the middle finger.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Belicoso said:


> Interesting,just looking at the Backspin pic´s it looks like the hook is way more towards the middle finger.


It should be noted even the 3 finger LH PA has been modified and is an older skinnier version I believe. Part of the curl was cut off and I have bent it flatter.

I would cut the backspin a little too. I don't like the feeling of the extensions on my ring finger. Not sure what it is about it but I don't like it. He zenith has been my main release lately. It's a little smaller as well and you could buy 4 of them for the price of a backspin.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Belicoso said:


> Interesting,just looking at the Backspin pic´s it looks like the hook is way more towards the middle finger.


It is just a little bit. Not sure how that will translate into anchor yet


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

You have to tighten down the index ring? That's the one issue ive heard so far, the two collars slowly back out.. The flat fingerbed with a little touchup to the transition from flat to radius will be money


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## rook-e (Jun 18, 2012)

Great right up, I can't wait to get one.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

What size Allen wrench's are needed to flip the moon over??


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

N7709K said:


> You have to tighten down the index ring? That's the one issue ive heard so far, the two collars slowly back out.. The flat fingerbed with a little touchup to the transition from flat to radius will be money


The bearing does seem to have a little play in it. To adjust I assume it the screw just in front of the head.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Bees said:


> What size Allen wrench's are needed to flip the moon over??


It take 2 sizes. The smallest one in my set for the moon set screw and the next size up for the side set screws. I'll check the actual sizes in a little


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## JRHOADES20 (Jul 11, 2012)

Nice review!


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Bees said:


> What size Allen wrench's are needed to flip the moon over??


1/16" and .050" I believe


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Cdpkook132 said:


> 1/16" and .050" I believe


I found some in bosses tool box. 1/16th for the 2 side set screws, and a .05 for the cam/shaft set screw.

so got the moon flipped over. Now I can set it up sometime...


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## chevman (Nov 3, 2006)

Thank you for the review. Sounds and looks like i have to have one. You got this one in the classifieds already? Hardly been available a week.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

chevman said:


> Thank you for the review. Sounds and looks like i have to have one. You got this one in the classifieds already? Hardly been available a week.


Thanks. 

Yep I got it in the classifieds and people are still waiting on back orders  it was brand new from a dealer type.


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## 4x4buck (Oct 15, 2010)

Colin..nice review and write up..i just picked up one myself in the classifieds..


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

4x4buck said:


> Colin..nice review and write up..i just picked up one myself in the classifieds..


Thanks, hope you like it. This will not be my pop up shoot release though. That's for sure


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cool review. I just snagged two of them (one for me, one for Spencer) in the classifieds myself.

I find it interesting that the moon configuration is similar to the moon setup in the first generation Stainless Scott releases (the ones that looks like two "C's" put together).

Pics of that to follow (for comparisons sake against the Backspin).

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Closeup of the side - Scott first generation Stainless Hinge...


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Close up of the small set screw that holds the axle in.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Now, I do wonder if I can interchange heads between the Backspin and the other Scott releases. That would be interesting - get a magnetic head "upgrade" to things like the Longhorn series...

-Steve


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

Great review. Thanks for sharing.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> Cool review. I just snagged two of them (one for me, one for Spencer) in the classifieds myself.
> 
> I find it interesting that the moon configuration is similar to the moon setup in the first generation Stainless Scott releases (the ones that looks like two "C's" put together).
> 
> ...


I did notice the moons were very similar in fashion. Doesn't the black hole utilize this same moon as well?


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> Now, I do wonder if I can interchange heads between the Backspin and the other Scott releases. That would be interesting - get a magnetic head "upgrade" to things like the Longhorn series...
> 
> -Steve


That's very possible. I can try tonight. Wonder how much Scott would sell just the head for though. Personally the rubber bands work great. With the magnet there is no garuntee the hook will return of its out of the magnetic field. The rubber band will always come back into place unless it breaks .


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> I did notice the moons were very similar in fashion. Doesn't the black hole utilize this same moon as well?


I believe so, but I don't own a Black Hole anymore for comparison.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> That's very possible. I can try tonight. Wonder how much Scott would sell just the head for though. Personally the rubber bands work great. With the magnet there is no garuntee the hook will return of its out of the magnetic field. The rubber band will always come back into place unless it breaks .


Dunno. I could email Eric Griggs to find out if they would sell just the head...


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> Dunno. I could email Eric Griggs to find out if they would sell just the head...


That's up to you. Not worth the money for me as the rubber bands are more than sufficient. I can switch em out in about a minute as well.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Agreed. And you don't need the rubber bands anyways. I've shot a couple of Scott's for a while with no rubber bands.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Took my first 15 shots with the backspin today while at lunch. 17 yards but you get the idea:



The release is smooth! You can feel it rotating around the ball bearing. I would say it does work based upon initial feelings. I will be giving this release a serious go this year for 3D.

I would like the thumb peg mounting area to be a little smaller but it's not that bad. The handle is very comfy. Takes a little getting used to how big and bulky the release feels while carrying it around. I am used to my skinny longhorn.


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## DJ Trout (Dec 12, 2007)

If I understand this right ......your index finger is used as a pivot in the bearing and the release is fired using the two middle fingers?? Correct??


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

DJ Trout said:


> If I understand this right ......your index finger is used as a pivot in the bearing and the release is fired using the two middle fingers?? Correct??


The bearing is around your index finger and that helps the release rotate more easily when using back tension. You don't actively think about pulling with the middle and ring finger.


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## DJ Trout (Dec 12, 2007)

So the release is still held in a vertical hand position, not in a horizontal postion?


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

DJ Trout said:


> So the release is still held in a vertical hand position, not in a horizontal postion?


It can be either, that's all shooter preference. I hold mine a little flatter than 45degees I believe


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## DJ Trout (Dec 12, 2007)

Cdpkook132 said:


> It can be either, that's all shooter preference. I hold mine a little flatter than 45degees I believe


Thank you........ Im trying to decide between the Exxus and Backspin. I haven t tried either as of yet.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

DJ Trout said:


> Thank you........ Im trying to decide between the Exxus and Backspin. I haven t tried either as of yet.


Do you want a hinge or a thumb trigger? That would be the question to answer first.


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

Nice Review Bro!


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

vftcandy said:


> Nice Review Bro!


Thanks buddy. I am liking it. May have to send it to ya for some mods.


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## DJ Trout (Dec 12, 2007)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Do you want a hinge or a thumb trigger? That would be the question to answer first.


All I've ever owned are Scott releases. Started out with a Mongoose... Wildcat ... wolverine. etc..

Then I tried the Babyhorn, but I don't shoot it consistently. Could be my lack of knowledge in how to set it up properly. So I'm trying to find what works best for me whether it be a thumb or hinge release. Still searching, I guess.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

DJ trout, you don't just try a hinge release and decide if you want to shoot one or not. It takes months of work to even become decent with a hinge and a year to really become a real hinge shooter. With all that said it is the best decision you will ever make in your archery career to become a real hinge shooter because once you are there you will be able to pick up thumb triggers and shoot them or hinges at a very high level.

Since you already have a baby horn I am going to send you my hinge setup routine to get you started along with a firing engine.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

I have to agree with Padgett


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## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

Great review Cpdkook132. Great pictures for illustration.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

sightpin said:


> Great review Cpdkook132. Great pictures for illustration.


Thanks, I figured it may help a few people make a decision.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Ttt


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Can't wait to get home and give mine some time on the range.


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## NSSCOTT (Sep 6, 2009)

for someone just getting into back tension do you think the backspin would be as good as any to learn on.


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

Nice review, thanks.

Can anyone comment on the levi (green version) in terms of weight?
Curious if the handle is also steel, giving the same weight. The black is deceiving.....is it anodized aluminum or coated steel?


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## r49740 (Dec 7, 2006)

How is the position of the thumb post? Have a stan blackjack, but the post is so far back the handle, like under the middle finger. Feels useless when using that as the "safety" for drawing. This one looks like its further up the handle to where rotating the hand some to get on it is needed, making more of a solid "safety" feature. Is that accurate?


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

NSSCOTT said:


> for someone just getting into back tension do you think the backspin would be as good as any to learn on.


Yes, learning on the backspin would be just as good as learning on a standard hinge. Understand how the release works and set it slow before moving to a bow and there is nothing to be afraid of.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

GWFH said:


> Nice review, thanks.
> 
> Can anyone comment on the levi (green version) in terms of weight?
> Curious if the handle is also steel, giving the same weight. The black is deceiving.....is it anodized aluminum or coated steel?


The extensions on the LM is still steel.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

r49740 said:


> How is the position of the thumb post? Have a stan blackjack, but the post is so far back the handle, like under the middle finger. Feels useless when using that as the "safety" for drawing. This one looks like its further up the handle to where rotating the hand some to get on it is needed, making more of a solid "safety" feature. Is that accurate?


I don't use the thumb peg and am not familiar with the black jack so maybe someone else can help ya. But I feel like the answer is yes. The thumb position (2 available spots) gives plenty of leverage over the release.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

More pics of the Backspin with the two pieces taken apart to show the needle bearings. 















Release courtesy of Chris Webster @ Corner Archery in Glendale, AZ.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

How does that get removed Steve?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

The black shell is of two halves. Unscrew it and it separates. I highly recommend blue Loctite to prevent it from coming apart in the future.

The bearing itself appears to be held in by the two security head setscrews. The one that holds the seam together (towards the finger extension) is what holds the bearing in place in a gross fashion. The other security headed setscrew near the hinge flipper seems to prevent movement within the aluminum circle itself and is for final tightening.

We haven't taken it apart beyond the removal of the black shell. I'm sure someone will. The needle bearing looks like something that SKF provides, similar to this cutaway drawing here:









Edit/Update Brainstorm - it wouldn't surprise me that the needle bearing has a groove like the SKF provided drawing attached. This would lock it down even more.

-Steve


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## lunk2002 (Jul 22, 2006)

Nice review. I want to try one out, those flat finger beds are right up my alley. 
Now if Scott would put a micro adjust on the moon it would be really sweet.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> The black shell is of two halves. Unscrew it and it separates. I highly recommend blue Loctite to prevent it from coming apart in the future.
> 
> The bearing itself appears to be held in by the two security head setscrews. The one that holds the seam together (towards the finger extension) is what holds the bearing in place in a gross fashion. The other security headed setscrew near the hinge flipper seems to prevent movement within the aluminum circle itself and is for final tightening.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Anyone know when the Exxus core is going to be released?


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## JHENS87 (Nov 7, 2009)

lancaster expects them 2/14/2014


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

Cdpkook132 said:


> The extensions on the LM is still steel.


Thanks.

thanks all else for posting detailed pics and comments
wish there was more of that here


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Anyone know when the Exxus core is going to be released?


For some, the standard Exxus has nearly identical point of impact to the Backspin. My biggest buggaboo about the Exxus is the weight, or lack thereof. I don't know if it's worth waiting for the Core...


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> For some, the standard Exxus has nearly identical point of impact to the Backspin. My biggest buggaboo about the Exxus is the weight, or lack thereof. I don't know if it's worth waiting for the Core...


I agree with all that. I had the Exxuss and it was very light. Right now I am thumb trigger less.


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

What do you guys notice with the weight? What's the theory/benefit?


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Beastmaster said:


> For some, the standard Exxus has nearly identical point of impact to the Backspin. My biggest buggaboo about the Exxus is the weight, or lack thereof. I don't know if it's worth waiting for the Core...


At the ATA show I handled and shot all of the new Scott Releases..The Core was the best feeling of all of the trigger releases that I tried.The Core was better feeling than the Exxus.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

TAYLOR CO. said:


> At the ATA show I handled and shot all of the new Scott Releases..The Core was the best feeling of all of the trigger releases that I tried.The Core was better feeling than the Exxus.


Good to know. What about the weight?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Hoytalpha35 said:


> What do you guys notice with the weight? What's the theory/benefit?


To some (myself included), you're able to gain a small bit of steadiness with your release hand due to the weight of the release itself. 

A lot of higher end recurve archers will customize their finger tabs with steel or brass backing plates and/or brass finger separators to add weight to the release hand as well. It's a pretty common theory that seems to work with a lot of archers in general.

-Steve


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## Irish66 (Feb 11, 2007)

Can someone tell me, is this a tension release or a hinge?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Irish66 said:


> Can someone tell me, is this a tension release or a hinge?


It's a hinge.


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

It's a pure hinge. I just received mine today and after setting it to where I like it I noticed it fired very quickly after the click. I am not new to hinges I have used them for several years. I am currently

using a Scott longhorn pro and a tru ball brass pro. In a normal firing sequence I go immediately to the click and then start the aiming process. With this new release I am going immediately to the click

and then finding the hinge releasing much quicker than I would want. It is probably where I have it set and the fact the bearing race is accelerating the process.

I love the feel and heft of this release as it is close to what I am using now. I am sure it will be just fine once I get used to it.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> More pics of the Backspin with the two pieces taken apart to show the needle bearings.
> View attachment 1853415
> 
> View attachment 1853417
> ...


What was the method of getting that apart? I tried, but no success. Somethings got to give with mine, can't stand the rough spot that's in it and it hangs occasionally.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

frog gigger said:


> What was the method of getting that apart? I tried, but no success. Somethings got to give with mine, can't stand the rough spot that's in it and it hangs occasionally.


I just took mine out and checked it out. Use your fingers two on one side and two on the other. Then unscrew with a little pressure.


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## Irish66 (Feb 11, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> It's a hinge.


thank you


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> Now, I do wonder if I can interchange heads between the Backspin and the other Scott releases. That would be interesting - get a magnetic head "upgrade" to things like the Longhorn series...
> 
> -Steve


Wouldn't be an upgrade in my book. My magnet works maybe 1 out of 10 shots. Rubber band works every time. I might try and switch my backspin the other way with my longhorn. Better hook and rubber band works better.


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## Irish66 (Feb 11, 2007)

peregrine82 said:


> It's a pure hinge. I just received mine today and after setting it to where I like it I noticed it fired very quickly after the click. I am not new to hinges I have used them for several years. I am currently
> 
> using a Scott longhorn pro and a tru ball brass pro. In a normal firing sequence I go immediately to the click and then start the aiming process. With this new release I am going immediately to the click
> 
> ...


good info... thx


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

peregrine82 said:


> It's a pure hinge. I just received mine today and after setting it to where I like it I noticed it fired very quickly after the click. I am not new to hinges I have used them for several years. I am currently
> 
> using a Scott longhorn pro and a tru ball brass pro. In a normal firing sequence I go immediately to the click and then start the aiming process. With this new release I am going immediately to the click
> 
> ...


Scott's clickers have always been super short. When using a click I prefer the zenith 1/4 moons. They come in different length ledges. They won't work with the backspin though because they don't have a set screw in them


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

erdman41 said:


> Wouldn't be an upgrade in my book. My magnet works maybe 1 out of 10 shots. Rubber band works every time. I might try and switch my backspin the other way with my longhorn. Better hook and rubber band works better.


 Yes, this. Exactly my experience. This is a poor reset mechanism. The rubber band might be crude but it is effective and works very well. Replacing the band is simple.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Good to know. What about the weight?


It's a bit heavier than the Exxus. I really liked it.


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## cicero (Jan 17, 2010)

Got my order in shop today!! Gonna try one out tonight!!!


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Got one today,first thing I did ,I flipped the moon off the clicker so far I like it ,I want to see my x count that will tell me what I need to know


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

My longhorn bail won't fit on my backspin without some modification. Backspin is wider at the pin connection.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

erdman41 said:


> My longhorn bail won't fit on my backspin without some modification. Backspin is wider at the pin connection.


Dang that stinks.


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Happy happy joy joy, got 2 of them. One came in at the shop today and the other I ordered last Sunday. I will say the finish on the Levi edition is slightly better and workmanship looked better. I could see burrs and pieces of aluminum that weren't fully tapped out on my red one, went to swap the peg to the other hole and it wasn't silky smooth threading in, tried from the other side as though I was a left handed shooter and it didn't want to go in at all.) Overall I'm pleased with the releases though. If you look closely at the anodize you can see little sideways lines like from a lathe that weren't fully polished out or coated over in anodize process? They shoot great though, it came set decent, tried with a rope first, then the bow and shot and to get to the click took forever...I will say it takes very very minimal movement of the moon to change the speed ALOT!


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Well, Spencer's and mine are here, at least the first two of four that I've ordered. Admittedly, I took a gamble and ordered a bunch from different suppliers in hopes that we both like shooting them better than the Longhorn Pro Advantage brass releases. And we do like them better than the Longhorn Pro Advantage releases.

Spencer (my 12 year old) shot his at one of the local 3-spot leagues tonight, right out of the package with no warmup and practice ends (mainly because we were running late to league), with the clicker on and set as cold as it is from the factory. Per Spencer, it's got zero binding around the index finger, and it's got one of the crispest hook/sear combinations right out of the box. 

Me - it's one of the cleanest releases out there, with a smoother feel than the Longhorn Pro Advantage and equally supportive finger beds from the TRUBall HT Pro Brass. It's hook reset and feel are identical to the HT Pro Brass, and I swear that the feel is one that Scott was aiming for in terms of smoothness. Resetting the hook is never consistent with the magnet, however. 

Dimensional wise, the finger spacing and dimensions between the TRUBall HT Pro Brass and the BackSpin are nearly identical, with the hook to finger distance being a tad shorter with the HT Pro Brass.

For Scott's ultra-high end hinge release, this is definitely a winner. It's on par with the TRUBall HT Pro Brass in large. Spencer's a convert. Now I need to decide between the Backspin and the HT Pro Brass. I guess I need to do more shooting.

-Steve


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Ah yes I will say and add that the hook is rather short, when turning my hand to draw I looked and with a standard loop it was sitting up at the edge of the hook...also the clicker distance is way too short for me and I always have shot a click. How do they manufacture the click into the moon? Is that just like engraved into the steel or what? I wonder if I could have someone make a slightly longer click on the smooth side of the moon.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> Ah yes I will say and add that the hook is rather short, when turning my hand to draw I looked and with a standard loop it was sitting up at the edge of the hook...also the clicker distance is way too short for me and I always have shot a click. How do they manufacture the click into the moon? Is that just like engraved into the steel or what? I wonder if I could have someone make a slightly longer click on the smooth side of the moon.


The click is an actual machined ledge into the moon. Zenith is the only one that had interchangeable moons that had different clicker ledge depths.

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

More comparison pics. Longhorn Pro Advantage, Backspin, First Gen Stainless, TRUBall HT Pro Brass. 

Yes, I swapped the thumb peg for a thicker one.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

And two comparison pics of the finger sizes between the HT Pro and the Backspin.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> More comparison pics. Longhorn Pro Advantage, Backspin, First Gen Stainless, TRUBall HT Pro Brass.
> 
> Yes, I swapped the thumb peg for a thicker one.
> 
> ...


That second picture you can see why going from the ht to the backspin your peep height will change (or your anchor).


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

I think the hook on the backspin is a little small as well. I like a little deeper hook so it's faster/easier to hook up.

Also would prefer a rubber band over the magnet. I want something that works 99.9% of the time. HT has the same problem. Rubber band! Flip the head.

Ultimate setup rubber band and zenith flip it head!


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## PWOODNC (Mar 6, 2005)

Beastmaster said:


> The click is an actual machined ledge into the moon. Zenith is the only one that had interchangeable moons that had different clicker ledge depths.
> 
> -Steve


Tru Ball also has this feature.


----------



## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

I gotta crack at shooting one last night. DAYUM!

This guys' was set scalding hot for my taste...like cliboomck hot. Lol...I set my hinges relatively cold, so I more or less pooed a little when it went off the first time. The three finger was a little bit tight for my liking. My fingers were a little "pinched". Nothin that isn't able to be dealt with. 

Needless to say, imma be selling some stuff and raising fun money to get one. 

Anybody need a LH4??

Super scope???


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> Ah yes I will say and add that the hook is rather short, when turning my hand to draw I looked and with a standard loop it was sitting up at the edge of the hook...also the clicker distance is way too short for me and I always have shot a click. How do they manufacture the click into the moon? Is that just like engraved into the steel or what? I wonder if I could have someone make a slightly longer click on the smooth side of the moon.


With that hard of a material it would be a ground feature in order to hold tolerance.
Find a machine house that has precision grind capabilities.


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## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

what size of click is in the backspin?I don't shoot a click but at one time there was a lot of different thousanths half moons to use


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Just guessing here...guess .006" click, not as short as the click on my stan mag micro 3 though, I don't even shoot it because the click is almost impossible to hit without firing for me. I took the click out of my LM edition backspin last night, going to the shop shortly to see how well I like that. I don't like a ton of travel and I don't like no click but we'll see, maybe it will benefit me in the long run for awhile.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

possum trapper said:


> what size of click is in the backspin?I don't shoot a click but at one time there was a lot of different thousanths half moons to use


I think the consensus was it comes with a .006 clicker, it was too fast for me, so I went to the other side of the moon.

I agree with the original poster, there is a bunch of extra metal around the thumb post holes. 
for those of us that don't use the thumb post, all that aluminum is in the way, 
I actually have to hold this release at more of an angle than I want too, to keep that chuck of aluminum off my neck.
Jury is still out on this one..


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## mikesmith66 (Aug 8, 2008)

I had to laugh at this ! I had a similar experience with the 2 Backspins I tried this past weekend. Scared the snot outta me. Got one coming to try out for myself so I can set it heavy and shoot how I like to shoot. 



Hoyt_em said:


> This guys' was set scalding hot for my taste...like cliboomck hot. Lol...I set my hinges relatively cold, so I more or less pooed a little when it went off the first time.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> Happy happy joy joy, got 2 of them. One came in at the shop today and the other I ordered last Sunday. I will say the finish on the Levi edition is slightly better and workmanship looked better. I could see burrs and pieces of aluminum that weren't fully tapped out on my red one, went to swap the peg to the other hole and it wasn't silky smooth threading in, tried from the other side as though I was a left handed shooter and it didn't want to go in at all.) Overall I'm pleased with the releases though. If you look closely at the anodize you can see little sideways lines like from a lathe that weren't fully polished out or coated over in anodize process? They shoot great though, it came set decent, tried with a rope first, then the bow and shot and to get to the click took forever...I will say it takes very very minimal movement of the moon to change the speed ALOT!


QC varies. The two red ones that I got in had differing machining qualities on the aluminum. One had far smoother machining than the other. I have another red one and a Levi edition still in the mail, so I'll get a chance to compare those to the first two when they come in.

I could swear that the fingertail is Metal Injection Molded stainless. It's got this porosity to it that I can't seem to pin down, and it's finish on the dovetail into the aluminum has burrs on one of them that really looks like it's MIM rather than billet machined. If I compare the fingertail on the Backspin to my Stainless releases, the stainless releases are far smoother in appearance.

-Steve


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> QC varies. The two red ones that I got in had differing machining qualities on the aluminum. One had far smoother machining than the other. I have another red one and a Levi edition still in the mail, so I'll get a chance to compare those to the first two when they come in.
> 
> I could swear that the fingertail is Metal Injection Molded stainless. It's got this porosity to it that I can't seem to pin down, and it's finish on the dovetail into the aluminum has burrs on one of them that really looks like it's MIM rather than billet machined. If I compare the fingertail on the Backspin to my Stainless releases, the stainless releases are far smoother in appearance.
> 
> -Steve


It would be casted and then machined if anything but as small as it is i would bet it out of solid stock. stainlessis real abrasive so it works on tooling pretty good . the ones with not so smooth finishes are prob done with a dull cutter.


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## j.evans2010 (Nov 24, 2012)

Beastmaster said:


> And two comparison pics of the finger sizes between the HT Pro and the Backspin.
> 
> View attachment 1854356
> 
> View attachment 1854357


what size is the HT?


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

j.evans2010 said:


> what size is the HT?


Large I believe


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## j.evans2010 (Nov 24, 2012)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Large I believe


Thanks, I'm trying to decide on one, and I have small hands lol, I guess I'll wait till the ASA in FL and try one.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Really starting to like mine. Wish it had the rubber band and better hook. Micro adjust like the HT would be nice but having it like it is you are apt to leave it alone once you have it set right. Kinda like them saving us from ourselves.

Not feeling any of the rotation that is going on is relaxing.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

j.evans2010 said:


> what size is the HT?





Cdpkook132 said:


> Large I believe


The HT is a large. For comparison's sake, this is the TRUBall HT Pro Brass Large in my 12 year old son's hands. He shoots Longhorn Pro Advantages and Backspins.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

On a side note - interesting reading on this particular patent...

-Steve

http://www.google.com/patents/US5692490


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Update on both my use as well as my son's use after some additional testing.

Me: I'm getting back into shooting after getting a bone marrow transplant. Technically, I've only really been cleared for stretch bands and light poundage bows under 30 pounds draw weight...but hey - 43 pounds is close, isn't it?

Anyhow, like others, the Backspin gives me the same point of impact as the Longhorn Pro Advantage. Zero issues adapting to it, and when you set the moon at the same angle, you're going to be very close in terms of the actual release point.

I'm not necessarily crazy about the magnetic head reset. The Carter Honey has one, and I'm not necessarily thrilled with it.

Like what I posted on my Facebook review - this is a Jeckyll and Hyde release of sorts. When I'm on, I'm literally killing the X on a 3 spot. Pure inside outs. When I'm off, it's a 9. In contrast, the Longhorn Pro and the HT Pro Brass are a little opposite. I don't have a high X count, but my score is better.

Roy (Rook-E here on AT) and I both agree that the Backspin is the go-to release when you have to get points and you're having a mental block on form. There's no need to relax your index finger slightly to help with the release as with most other hinges. This one, you can pull and go.

My 12 year old son Spencer is seeing similar things - when his release hand form is on (and his form is far better than mine), it's a pure X. No issues, no hassles, nada. Unlike me that still plays outer 10 games, he plays inner 10. His inner 10 game has jumped a ton to 294-295 inner 10's. Even with his practice arrows (that are Carbon Express X-Buster 700's with pin nocks that have bad runout and badly dinged up 120 grain points), he's nailing 292-293 inner 10 games.

His problem? There's a binding flat spot of sorts on his Backspin. It's enough to bug him to where he's not going to compete with the release in this weekend's Arizona State Indoor (FITA inner 10). Today I'm going to mark his inner ring with a silver Sharpie to see if the binding flat spot is on the same position. If so, either Spencer and I will be trading it out with the other 2 Backspins that arrive today, or it's going back to Scott. I'm thinking it's going back to Scott if the binding spot is in a repeatable position.

His Backspin is also set a bit colder than his Longhorn Pro Advantages. I think part of that has to deal with the bearing - there's less resistance on the index finger, so it's far easier to touch off.

-Steve


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## james1551 (Nov 2, 2010)

I have the red one with stainless fingers and all I can say is awesome I shoot with a lot of index finger pressure and this release has eliminated it going off slow slow slow on uphill shots it goes off just like a flat ground shot the finish on mine is second to none kudos to the guys and gals at Scott and cbe archery


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## 4x4buck (Oct 15, 2010)

I received mine in the mail late yesterday evening so today I took it outside and fired my first 3 shots at 20yds. Im very impressed so far..very consistent and extremely accurate and easy to shoot.


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## rook-e (Jun 18, 2012)

I spent a short stint shooting this release a couple days ago, directly out of the package factory settings. It was set very slow in compassion to my Longhorn Pro, BUT it performed perfect. I feel that there will be no transition/learning period from someone already shooting a Scott Hinge. My point of impact/score was identical between the two, my anchor point was the same as well. 
As Steve mentioned above, this is the release I need when I start "thinking" while shooting. I sometimes lose my shot process and have difficult time getting the shot of do to being too tense, this BackSpin will help me through these times. 
IMO its a GREAT release BUT may not be for everyone. 
I will definitely have one soon.


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Couple buddies swappin parts.


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## jtcoinflip (Oct 24, 2012)

I shot the backspin for a week now, the two pieces of the finger hole definitely slide apart on me, but now i have some loctite in there which should fix the problem. the two thumb positions don't bother me at all, but i use closer to 45 degree angle hand position.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

nhns4 said:


> Couple buddies swappin parts.


Very cool.

Did you reanodize the blue ring?


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Beastmaster said:


> Very cool.
> 
> Did you reanodize the blue ring?


They had a couple prototypes which were different colors than what is being sold.


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

I've been able to shoot it twice, I like the bearing. The ones I shot were set very slow out of the package. Good weight to it, nice idea. I'm getting tired of $200 releases though....


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

I ordered a four finger from Lancaster should be here Monday, cant wait seems like it should be an awesome release.


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Well...I've had some time with it now. I shot some 10yd games getting accustomed to it and shot my first 10yd 60X with 50 inside out with a click. I always shoot a click and decided to set up my LM edition without a click and shoot a click and shot a 10yd Vegas that day, well no click and the release feeling close to the same as the other one was not bad...shot a 297 27X, relaxing coming down on target the SOB went off and shot a 7...I was HOT! But I love them both, they're a bit bulky in my hands (I used to shoot Mini Pro Brass Advantage Longhorns) and the finger beds are just a bit too wide for me, but it's comfortable. I also like the big hump where the thumb peg goes because I can lay my thumb over it and draw without a peg and I HATE HATE HATE that small thumb peg, I much prefer the standard old large barrels and I put one on my LM edition the other day.


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## Firelord777 (Dec 22, 2012)

Nice review dude!


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> Update on both my use as well as my son's use after some additional testing.
> 
> Me: I'm getting back into shooting after getting a bone marrow transplant. Technically, I've only really been cleared for stretch bands and light poundage bows under 30 pounds draw weight...but hey - 43 pounds is close, isn't it?
> 
> ...


Finally someone else with the flat spot. Thought I was the only one.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

For the heck of it, I took my Backspin apart and got some part numbers off of the bearing.

Ironically - Amazon sells the bearing. It's a Koyo USA B-186 bearing. 

http://www.amazon.com/Koyo-Bearing-Complement-3800rpm-Rotational/dp/B007EDVG40

Better pics on the next post - I have to upload it from my phone.

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Closer pics


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## Jaliv92 (Apr 2, 2013)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> Happy happy joy joy, got 2 of them. One came in at the shop today and the other I ordered last Sunday. I will say the finish on the Levi edition is slightly better and workmanship looked better. I could see burrs and pieces of aluminum that weren't fully tapped out on my red one, went to swap the peg to the other hole and it wasn't silky smooth threading in, tried from the other side as though I was a left handed shooter and it didn't want to go in at all.) Overall I'm pleased with the releases though. If you look closely at the anodize you can see little sideways lines like from a lathe that weren't fully polished out or coated over in anodize process? They shoot great though, it came set decent, tried with a rope first, then the bow and shot and to get to the click took forever...I will say it takes very very minimal movement of the moon to change the speed ALOT!


I have the Levi edition and it has burrs and not fully tapped. So I guess it's hit are miss.Holes look like my energy 35.


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

I snagged one Friday. 3 finger, normally I run four fingers (black hole and a long horn, as a back up)

I figured worse case, snag the four finger extension down the road...if I have to. My concern originally was with my meat hook fingers fitting in the three finger area. 

After shooting 50-75 arrows with it, I don't for see a need for the handle change. Partially, cause it is not uncomfortable and it makes a bit of sense to have ore guidance to the same hand position.

Impact was identical to the other releases, and I was actually messing around with all three at once...as long as I executed, I scored.

I have my BH, and LH set pretty cold. I don't typically have issues with getting them to go off. Let downs as a result of not firing on are 2-4 times a 300 Vegas face. That being said, I kept slowing the BS down as I was shooting.

Seems like the more shots, the easier it went off. Almost too easy, and I popped of a few high nines. At this point I can almost not see the (right handed shooter) edge of the moon on the left side. I kinda wish I could slow that bearing down a little bit...with out voiding the warranty. 

Finish on mine was decent, cold setting from the factory, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Threaded hole was NOT tapped all the way...I know it's minor, but damn. I ran a longer screw through to see if it would go, it did, and so did the burr and anodizing on the opposite side. 

I may, for grins try the bigger diameter thumb leg from my BH...

I'll play with it more Monday, and Wednesday on league nights before I put it in the quiver for a shoot. I just wanna make sure them high 9s arent going to show up, from earlier Than I would like releases. Maybe a bit of a change to a my release process will be needed?

I was amazed at the smoothness of the shots, center punches were regular enough to bring a pleasant smile.


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

Beastmaster said:


> Closer pics
> 
> View attachment 1856767
> 
> ...


How did you take it apart ?
Would it be possible to replace the bearings if someone wanted to ?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Hit-em said:


> How did you take it apart ?
> Would it be possible to replace the bearings if someone wanted to ?


The center pivot unscrews into two halves. 

It is possible to replace the bearing. 

I'm researching the bearing because they has been an expressed interest to see the bearing slowed down. The bearing is soaked in light machine oil before installation. 

If there was a way to do the bearing in a grease instead of an oil, it could slow the bearing down.


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

I have a red one on the way...:darkbeer:


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

frog gigger said:


> Finally someone else with the flat spot. Thought I was the only one.


There will be more. 

The issue is the use of the light machine oil. There isn't enough cushioning and the machine oil will eventually wear off. Hence - the flat spots. 

The specs from the manufacturer state the bearing should be in an oil bath config. 

It's my view the bearing should be using and prepped with a soap based lithium grease, with the bearing lubed under pressure (like a wheel bearing) before installation.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> The center pivot unscrews into two halves.
> 
> It is possible to replace the bearing.
> 
> ...


it would not be hard to pack that bearing full of grease,
But if you pack it full of grease, what effect would temperature have on the grease???


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Bees said:


> it would not be hard to pack that bearing full of grease,
> But if you pack it full of grease, what effect would temperature have on the grease???


Far less issues than machine oil. Machine oil will evaporate.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Interesting Steve. Replace the bearing for 10$ if needed


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

vftcandy said:


> I have a red one on the way...:darkbeer:


Nice. I knew it wouldn't be long till you crossed over...


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> Far less issues than machine oil. Machine oil will evaporate.


Maybe we should put in an email to scott about maintenance. I didn't read the instructions but I'll check there


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Nice. I knew it wouldn't be long till you crossed over...


Just want to play with one. The hook have a textured finish?


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

The finger hook...sorry


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

vftcandy said:


> Just want to play with one. The hook have a textured finish?


Not really unless you get a pitted one like some have. Mine is pretty darn smooth. Definitely not knurled like the Carter's


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

Yeah I may do some fab work and polish it out. I will have to see how it fits my hand first.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Not really unless you get a pitted one like some have. Mine is pretty darn smooth. Definitely not knurled like the Carter's


It looks (to me) that the hook is MIM, machine finished, then tumbled.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Maybe we should put in an email to scott about maintenance. I didn't read the instructions but I'll check there


I was intending to email Eric Griggs after Lancaster is over. I want to find out if packing the bearing with high pressure white lithium grease would void the warranty.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

@steve, i wanna see how they are gonna hold up after water, dirt, etc gets into the bearing seeing as they aren't sealed. I know if it were mine the bearing would be packed with marine grease and the two Alu rings would be tacked together...


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

N7709K said:


> @steve, i wanna see how they are gonna hold up after water, dirt, etc gets into the bearing seeing as they aren't sealed. I know if it were mine the bearing would be packed with marine grease and the two Alu rings would be tacked together...


I will let you know about this. I have already dropped the release on concrete and usually drop my release in dirt at least once a 3D shoot. I think this release may need to go back to Scott once a year for cleaning.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> There will be more.
> 
> The issue is the use of the light machine oil. There isn't enough cushioning and the machine oil will eventually wear off. Hence - the flat spots.
> 
> ...


I'd be taking care of that myself if I could only get it apart. I can't for the life of me get mine to budge.


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

Got to play with mine for a couple minutes last night. Fit and finish on my is good. Looking forward to shooting a couple rounds with it this week.


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

Is the screw that has to be loosen to get the inner ring out & get to the bearings ?

View attachment 1857106


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## Tipsntails7 (Feb 21, 2013)

this entire thread is hilarious to me, make no mistake im sure it is a great release and i will own one at some point. But its a 200 dollar release, now we are talking about replacing the bearing, changing the lubricant, yearly trips to scott for cleaning. it makes a guy very hesitant to even think about purchasing one.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

N7709K said:


> @steve, i wanna see how they are gonna hold up after water, dirt, etc gets into the bearing seeing as they aren't sealed. I know if it were mine the bearing would be packed with marine grease and the two Alu rings would be tacked together...


Agreed save for the tacking of the halves together. 

I know that one summer in Arizona, that light oil is toast.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Tipsntails7 said:


> this entire thread is hilarious to me, make no mistake im sure it is a great release and i will own one at some point. But its a 200 dollar release, now we are talking about replacing the bearing, changing the lubricant, yearly trips to scott for cleaning. it makes a guy very hesitant to even think about purchasing one.


And for that cost, it should have a sealed bearing. It doesn't. So, people are looking at ways to mitigate the inherent issues in using the bearing that it was equipped with. 

And just like bows, releases get modified to fit the archers need. This is one of the ways to do it.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

What does the inner race look like steve? Is it just the alu ring or is there a second ss race?


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## Tipsntails7 (Feb 21, 2013)

Beastmaster said:


> And for that cost, it should have a sealed bearing. It doesn't. So, people are looking at ways to mitigate the inherent issues in using the bearing that it was equipped with.
> 
> And just like bows, releases get modified to fit the archers need. This is one of the ways to do it.


not bashing, just think that a release of this cost should not have these type of issues. it should not be on the consumer to fix faulty manufacturing. and the last time i checked people didnt have to remachine the string grooves in their cams to make the string fit better. ive never modified a bow, tuned yes, possibly change out the grip yes, but actually modifying the bow, no. just my opinion


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## Goldwing (Apr 30, 2005)

I have one on back-order; but I just canceled it. To expensive for all these issues; which Scott will probally correct on down the road. Plan to re-ordered when all the issues are resolved.


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

The bearing held in place with a clamping of the rear half of the release. The allen head is a security bolt designed to keep us from dicking with it. I have a security override allen head that fits perfectly

so it will be easy to get the bearing out for replacement. I agree with beastmaster that light machine oil will disappear in no time. I have a tool maker friend who I am sure will come up with the proper 

lubricant for longer life. All in all I really like this release as did my friends that tried it today.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

And to all these "issues" we are bringing up. These are could happens and foresights on how they could be improved.


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

Goldwing said:


> I have one on back-order; but I just canceled it. To expensive for all these issues; which Scott will probally correct on down the road. Plan to re-ordered when all the issues are resolved.


 I really don't think these are "issues" in the sense the release can't be improved upon. It has bearings, bearings will wear and depending on environment some will wear quicker than others. For me the

consistency of the firing overrides any bearing lubricant and wear "issues" Having said that every one will have to decide whether or not to pop for one of these. For me it was a go, for others maybe not.


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## lzeplin (Jan 19, 2008)

We've got 2 Levi edition's and both are perfect, bearing's are silky smooth on both of them.. This is a awesome release super easy to shoot.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

N7709K said:


> What does the inner race look like steve? Is it just the alu ring or is there a second ss race?


I just got done with being the announcer for the Arizona State Indoor Championships. Let me grab some dinner and then I'll take some more pictures..

The Aluminum ring is technically the second (inner) race. It's threaded in a way so that one section of the the inner race is always in full contact with the rollers in the bearing. The other section of the ring is shorter.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

that'll be AWESOME when it gets packed full of dirt and grit


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

N7709K said:


> that'll be AWESOME when it gets packed full of dirt and grit


Yes it will! I am not very kind to my releases, ask vftcandy


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> I just got done with being the announcer for the Arizona State Indoor Championships. Let me grab some dinner and then I'll take some more pictures..
> 
> The Aluminum ring is technically the second (inner) race. It's threaded in a way so that one section of the the inner race is always in full contact with the rollers in the bearing. The other section of the ring is shorter.


How did they go?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> How did they go?


The tournament went great. And, I used the time to have people play with it so they could accelerate wear. Interesting to see what I found. Pics next.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Okay, in order from left to right...

Backspin, inner race, locking ring.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Now, I had a good amount of people play with the Backspin. 

This is what was captured by the oil. It's particles from the bearings.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

This is what it looks like after a rag was used to clean it.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

i'd fo sho pack that bearing before i put it to hard use with lots of travel


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

I knew they were using needle bearings when I first shot Darrins and asked about it....SS sealed ball bearings would have been vastly superior for longevity and wear/smoothness. Needle bearings suck. Need to find an exact outer diameter and inner diameter matching ball bearing that would work.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Those particles were not there when I last took the ring apart, which was yesterday. Continual playing by a lot of various people that stopped to take a look at the release while I was doing the announcing seems to have accelerated it's use quite a bit.

Frankly, I would be packing the bearing with some sort of white lithium grease, breaking the release in, then flushing the grease out, then repacking it. This will eliminate all of the particles that come out of the new bearing, along with giving it a new clean base of grease to work with.


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> I knew they were using needle bearings when I first shot Darrins and asked about it....SS sealed ball bearings would have been vastly superior for longevity and wear/smoothness. Needle bearings suck. Need to find an exact outer diameter and inner diameter matching ball bearing that would work.


And a packed/sealed ball or roller bearing would be slower too...

Against my better judgement I shot this thing in a "tournament" yesterday. FITA 600 round...finished with a 4 finger black hole. I just need more time on BS. More playing tonight.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

I love mine,plane on getting another,I don't plan on throwing in the dirt.and sand.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

JimmyP said:


> I love mine,plane on getting another,I don't plan on throwing in the dirt.and sand.


Just detritus from your release bag or pocket will grime up the bearing. Heck, bearing degradation from using light machine oil and it's eventual evaporation alone would cause more damage than the grime.


----------



## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

I don't know if a grease would be needed, Axle bearings use this same style of bearing and they are lubricated by a small amount of gear oil and last for thousands of miles.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

LCA said:


> I don't know if a grease would be needed, Axle bearings use this same style of bearing and they are lubricated by a small amount of gear oil and last for thousands of miles.


Ah...but you hit something on the head. Gear oil is higher pressure and can withstand far more stuff thanks to the sulfur component inherent in a lot of gear oils.

The Backspin uses plain light machine oil from all outward appearances. There's no smell to it, so there's not a sulfur component. I doubt it's got a lithium portion to the oil base as well.


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> Ah...but you hit something on the head. Gear oil is higher pressure and can withstand far more stuff thanks to the sulfur component inherent in a lot of gear oils.
> 
> The Backspin uses plain light machine oil from all outward appearances. There's no smell to it, so there's not a sulfur component. I doubt it's got a lithium portion to the oil base as well.


The backspin is aluminum correct? Just for kicks did you check if the shavings are magnetic? I have a couple of ideas on a lubricant, mine should be here today and I am going to inspect it and go from there.


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

Beastmaster said:


> Okay, in order from left to right...
> 
> Backspin, inner race, locking ring.
> 
> View attachment 1857660


How did you get it apart ???

I would probably replace the bearings with a Grade 4 or perhaps Ceramic Bearings...depending on cost ..


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## c.sitas (Dec 29, 2010)

I seen here one person here mention he shoots a Zenith. Does anyone remember the Backfire from Zenith?


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

Hit-em said:


> How did you get it apart ???
> 
> I would probably replace the bearings with a Grade 4 or perhaps Ceramic Bearings...depending on cost ..


The two black aluminum rings just unthread from each other. I can get them unscrewed just using my fingers


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Hit-em said:


> How did you get it apart ???
> 
> I would probably replace the bearings with a Grade 4 or perhaps Ceramic Bearings...depending on cost ..


Take two fingers on each side of the black ring, spread them inside. Twist. It comes apart.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

LCA said:


> The backspin is aluminum correct? Just for kicks did you check if the shavings are magnetic? I have a couple of ideas on a lubricant, mine should be here today and I am going to inspect it and go from there.


I didn't. The inner race ring didn't show any wear past it's coating, so next time I take the inner race ring apart, I'll try it with a magnet.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

You guys are way to concerned about the bearings in this release and them wearing out etc, sure bearings have a few issues that cam come up but to me many of the issues you guys are worried about are simply not worth talking about. Almost every bicycle headset I ever worked with that was a low end one had good and bad areas in the bearing and you could turn the bearing to the right direction so that the two areas that they had pressure on them were the good areas of the bearing and you would never feel the bad areas when riding.

That is my suggestion to rotate the bearing in these releases and and find bad areas of the bearings and roatate the bearing so that you don't feel those spots. Once you get the outer bearing rotated in the actual release and tightened up then rotate the inside part that your finger touches until you find a placement that feels really good and then mark it so that you can keep it in that position easily.

I also find that on bearings that are felt by hand pressure that using pedros lithium grease as the packing grease and then put a few drops of a liquid grease with it produces a nice mixture.


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> I didn't. The inner race ring didn't show any wear past it's coating, so next time I take the inner race ring apart, I'll try it with a magnet.


I was just wondering if it was hiding in there from machining, I have read a couple posts about rough spots from dull cutters and maybe the QC missed cleaning that one?


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Padgett said:


> You guys are way to concerned about the bearings in this release and them wearing out etc, sure bearings have a few issues that cam come up but to me many of the issues you guys are worried about are simply not worth talking about. Almost every bicycle headset I ever worked with that was a low end one had good and bad areas in the bearing and you could turn the bearing to the right direction so that the two areas that they had pressure on them were the good areas of the bearing and you would never feel the bad areas when riding.
> 
> That is my suggestion to rotate the bearing in these releases and and find bad areas of the bearings and roatate the bearing so that you don't feel those spots. Once you get the outer bearing rotated in the actual release and tightened up then rotate the inside part that your finger touches until you find a placement that feels really good and then mark it so that you can keep it in that position easily.
> 
> I also find that on bearings that are felt by hand pressure that using pedros lithium grease as the packing grease and then put a few drops of a liquid grease with it produces a nice mixture.


I get what your saying but I don't want another thing in my head like "Did I turn the bearing to the right spot" every time I shoot.


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## Absolute Archer (Aug 29, 2013)

I just received my order of back spins a few hours ago and have been shooting one ever since they showed up.
I have to say I really like it so far and the only thing I'm concerned with is the 2 set screws on each side of the moon. I think these are going to get stripped out to fast for some shooters that like to over tighten screws so be careful when adjusting it.
But so far I think they did a great job building it. Way to go Scott Archery.


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## dan7778 (Dec 28, 2012)

What about fishing reel oil or grease?


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Mine just showed up, the bearing seem good i think i am going to just run it as is and see what happens.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

LCA said:


> Mine just showed up, the bearing seem good i think i am going to just run it as is and see what happens.


Will you post a weight on the 4 finger version?


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## LCA (Apr 20, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> Will you post a weight on the 4 finger version?


5.27 oz feels pretty good, the finger extension alone is 2.55 oz.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

Tag


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

My 3 finger red will be here saturday...


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## rook-e (Jun 18, 2012)

I feel left out, I haven't even ordered one yet.


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

rook-e said:


> I feel left out, I haven't even ordered one yet.


Slacker, mine will be pimped out by the time you order...lol...ask if they have one that is pre Arizona broke in for half off...lol


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## rook-e (Jun 18, 2012)

vftcandy said:


> Slacker, mine will be pimped out by the time you order...lol...ask if they have one that is pre Arizona broke in for half off...lol


Good idea! Scratch and dent discount.


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> How did they go?


Phhh...dirt and grime can be washed out with beer...problem solved!


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

vftcandy said:


> Phhh...dirt and grime can be washed out with beer...problem solved!


Exactly!


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

Shooting fairly well with mine. Never been a hinge shooter, have played with one last year. Shot my first round after 10 days off shooting and had a couple more X's than normal. And shooting good X's. Overall score was down 2 pts but I attribute that more the time off as most my bad shots were on the last arrow. Overall I'm happy, definitely want to get Brass Longhorn Pro Advantage to see how I'd shoot a regular hinge.


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## 4x4buck (Oct 15, 2010)

Liking mine so far but would like to try it in the 4 finger straight handle. Anybody who wants to sell just a handle pm me. Does anybody or shop sell just a handle?


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## alwayslookin (May 28, 2003)

vftcandy said:


> Phhh...dirt and grime can be washed out with beer...problem solved!


As with most things.....proper lubrication is essential.......and yes, beer is my choice.....it helps immensely in many situations. LOL.


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

4x4buck said:


> Liking mine so far but would like to try it in the 4 finger straight handle. Anybody who wants to sell just a handle pm me. Does anybody or shop sell just a handle?


I had a buddy check on a 4 finger handle, while he was a t Lancaster. They didn't (think that's what he said) have any handles...also had another buddy say the 4 finger handles are going for big money.


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## doublej450 (Feb 14, 2013)

Really like mine so far changed from a Stan black ice it has a lot smoother release my scores have gone up the second time I used it!!


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## jaymiller5 (Mar 7, 2010)

OK I am sold!


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

Switch backed and forth between my exxus and backspin last night. Anchor and hand position changes slightly, but near the same POI, the Exxus was about 1 yard hot, left/right was good! I had set my bow up with slightly shorter draw length and d-loop to get the fit I wanted with with Backspin then adjusted anchor to shoot the Exxus. Made my day.


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## EGriggs (Mar 11, 2003)

Hoyt_em said:


> I had a buddy check on a 4 finger handle, while he was a t Lancaster. They didn't (think that's what he said) have any handles...also had another buddy say the 4 finger handles are going for big money.


Finger extensions are sold separately for $35. Meaning, if you got a 3-finger and want to shoot a 4, all you need is 4-finger extension piece.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

EGriggs said:


> Finger extensions are sold separately for $35. Meaning, if you got a 3-finger and want to shoot a 4, all you need is 4-finger extension piece.


Any word on the Exxus Core Eric?


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

Oh...you should've made the hook on the head bigger. I've never hit myself in the face til now and I figured out why. With top and bottom tied in nock sets and a short dloop it forms a really tight angle at which the loop doesn't pivot much if at all...well combine that with short hook and rotating your thumb downwards palm out on the draw makes for an unpleasant experience. That is my one legitimate complaint on it at the moment, needs a longer hook and you should sell them that way or provide replacements...I never had issues with my longhorns and now had to change the angle at which I hold my hand on the draw...or loops and neither I want to do really.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

Ill agree the hook is too short


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

I noticed the short hook also, but it hasn't bothered me. I'm shooting it without the peg. The knub that sticks out the back for the thumb peg is more than enough to draw with and is more comfortable to me. It's also a smoother transition to let my thumb slide off the knub then trying to "swing" my thumb away from the peg. I LOVE how easy it is to anchor into the click with this release. Then pulling thru the shot is effortless. 

Big thumbs up.... For now. Time will tell as I shoot it more.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

Mine started to develop some play inside the finger that I was concerned with, even seemed to be pinching my index finger a little. I really hadn't paid much attention to how much play was in that part but it seemed off to me. After shooting we began to take a closer look at it and figured out that the two black pieces sitting on the needle bearings are threaded to each other. Simply tightened them up and it is perfect again. Not sure how they loosened up but glad to know how to fix it easily. Not a big deal but it is something I will keep an eye on. I really am loving this release to date but my only concern is possible failure at the wrong time. Also worried if it get dropped in the dirt; will this dirt get in the bearing and mess it up? I am normally very careful with my release but accidents happen.


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## christer (Apr 22, 2009)

What is the difference between standard and levi morgan signature release?


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

Color and them ripping you off 10 extra bucks


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

Mine just hit Redding, finally get to get my hands on one!


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

EGriggs said:


> Finger extensions are sold separately for $35. Meaning, if you got a 3-finger and want to shoot a 4, all you need is 4-finger extension piece.


Apparently ones definition of big money and another's is two different things...I don't see that as big money.


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

Lol...Wait till that bearing groove grabs a piece of beard hair...put a man in tears, quick like!


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Hoyt_em said:


> Lol...Wait till that bearing groove grabs a piece of beard hair...put a man in tears, quick like!


LOL that very thing happened to me on Thursday, but it was the head of my HT4 pro that got me. Yeeeesh!


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

Check it out kids....


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## harley (May 20, 2006)

The zenith backfire had that technology along time ago.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

harley said:


> The zenith backfire had that technology along time ago.


I think the zenith backfired because Levi didn't shoot it lol.

Actually the zenith had the bearing on the middle finger. That alone could change the feel between the releases. The backfire also looked a aesthetic less appealing then the backspin


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

vftcandy said:


> Check it out kids....


only the index finger donut fit to polish eh?


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## dlutjen (Oct 7, 2010)

OMG! I got my Back Spin today! 

Extremely smooth quality release! 

Shots seem to go off effortlessly as the hinge breaks over. I never expected this release to be this good. I have shot hinges for 24 years and never experienced anything like this one! 

I can't believe this isn't a Carter!


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> only the index finger donut fit to polish eh?


Lol, I am not done yet boss...


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

swbuckmaster said:


> I think the zenith backfired because Levi didn't shoot it lol.
> 
> Actually the zenith had the bearing on the middle finger. That alone could change the feel between the releases. The backfire also looked a aesthetic less appealing then the backspin


It appeared that on the 4 finger Backfire that the bearing was for the middle finger but it wasn't used that way. The index finger still went into the hole. There would be no way for the release to rotate on the bearing with the middle finger in the hole.
The bottom line is that a hinge is a hinge. The bearing release seems so much easier at first, just like when you make your hinge hotter. After awhile you mind will adjust to it and if you had hang up problems before, you'll have them back again. It's more mental than physical.
Joe B.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

zenarch said:


> It appeared that on the 4 finger Backfire that the bearing was for the middle finger but it wasn't used that way. The index finger still went into the hole. There would be no way for the release to rotate on the bearing with the middle finger in the hole.
> The bottom line is that a hinge is a hinge. The bearing release seems so much easier at first, just like when you make your hinge hotter. After awhile you mind will adjust to it and if you had hang up problems before, you'll have them back again. It's more mental than physical.
> Joe B.


I agree, but it's better not to add those facts until after the sale.:wink:


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

My home brew larger dia thumb post...:darkbeer:


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## gfm1960 (Jan 30, 2013)

that looks awesome.the thumb post is a really great touch.it completes it.it looks like it was all part of the plan.i like it a lot.you have an enormous amount of talent.you leave no stone unturned


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## 4x4buck (Oct 15, 2010)

vftcandy said:


> My home brew larger dia thumb post...:darkbeer:


Looks awesome!


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## harley (May 20, 2006)

swbuckmaster said:


> I think the zenith backfired because Levi didn't shoot it lol.
> 
> Actually the zenith had the bearing on the middle finger. That alone could change the feel between the releases. The backfire also looked a aesthetic less appealing then the backspin


.
It was on the index finger.


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## chevman (Nov 3, 2006)

Hey Vftcandy..does that thumb peg spin? I like it!


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

chevman said:


> Hey Vftcandy..does that thumb peg spin? I like it!


Nope, Lol.... This release is crazy sick though!


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

They had a shorter aluminum spacer there, I may switch to that....this one is bigger dia, but same length as the stock one.


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## jaymiller5 (Mar 7, 2010)

Got my 3 finger backspin in yesterday and after shooting about 300 arrows with it my review is the stock setting is way to slow, the thumb post is a little to long and too small diameter, the thumb post mounting block is too large, I do not like the magnet as mine does not reset anyway forcing me to manually move the hook back to the proper position to shoot another arrow and like others have said the hook is a little too small. The execution of a shot is second to none however once I got it setup for me. I do like the clicker, first time ever shooting one, and the release is very crisp. Conclusion, I will be sticking with this release for both my hunting and indoor bow. Great job, Scott Archery!!


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

The reset of the head via a magnet (mentioned a lot through oh this thread)hasn't been an issue to me. I am simply brushing the hook backwards on the string before I hook up. Not really a PITA, IMO


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## Hoyt_em (Feb 18, 2007)

zenarch said:


> It appeared that on the 4 finger Backfire that the bearing was for the middle finger but it wasn't used that way. The index finger still went into the hole. There would be no way for the release to rotate on the bearing with the middle finger in the hole.
> The bottom line is that a hinge is a hinge. The bearing release seems so much easier at first, just like when you make your hinge hotter. After awhile you mind will adjust to it and if you had hang up problems before, you'll have them back again. It's more mental than physical.
> Joe B.


There is a lot of truth to that last part. Not to the same frequency...but they did/do come back.


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## 4x4buck (Oct 15, 2010)

I switched my blackhole thumb peg out with my backspin and it was the world of difference. The blackhole is a little bigger thumb peg. I agree the magnetic reset works about half the time and I'm not a huge fan of the 2 Allen screws to adjust the moon. I think the hook should of been bigger like the blackhole. I've also been shooting with the clicker but lately the release isn't clicking and is just firing. Anybody else had this issue? All in all it shoots very accurately.


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## Cdpkook132 (Jul 8, 2009)

So how are the bearing holding up?

Mine just keeps getting better with time. It smoother than when I was first shooting it. It's settling in nicely. I have dropped it but not very many times in dirt.


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## Bowthrow (Nov 30, 2012)

I used mine for the past 3 weeks practicing. I guess the only problem I'm having with it so far is consistency. I just can't find a solid anchor point yet. I shot the best score at my 3D league last week with it and then the first game this week I shot the worst game I've ever shot. I ended up shooting my second 2 games with my old release and the scores improved greatly. I just need time with it. It's a great release and operates perfectly but it my first ever hinge so I'm sure it will take time.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Cdpkook132 said:


> So how are the bearing holding up?
> 
> Mine just keeps getting better with time. It smoother than when I was first shooting it. It's settling in nicely. I have dropped it but not very many times in dirt.


Mine is still perfect. Can't ask for a better hinge, IMO.


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## Jon Clayton (Mar 4, 2012)

Thank you for posting this!


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## Bowthrow (Nov 30, 2012)

Another update for me. I've been having consistency problems with this release. It's the first hinge I've used granted but I've used other "back tension" handle releases regularly. It's most likely the case that I'm over thinking my firing engine as is usually the case when inconsistencies happen. My groups are just simply more spread out than I'm used to. I thought it was my new bow as I just purchased 2 new ones and figured I need some time with them but yesterday I went back to my resistance release for practice and league and I Robin hooded 3 arrows. 

I know most guys say just stick with it but normally that's applied not only to learning just the hinge but also learning the correct form and back tension methods associated with it. I am by no means ignorant but my back tension firing method is pretty solid. There may just be a learning curve since I'm so used to my current release or this release just simply isn't for me.


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## tank69kma (May 1, 2013)

Can you get a faster moon/seer for the backspin? If so, where? It comes with a .010 I think and I'd like a .006.


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

tank69kma said:


> Can you get a faster moon/seer for the backspin? If so, where? It comes with a .010 I think and I'd like a .006.


With the inner bearing you don't need a faster moon. It breaks super quick after you hit the click. If anything I'd want a slower one.


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## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

*no peep rise*

My experience thus far:

--NO peep rise/changing misalignment of peep & sight pin/pin guard when pulling into wall, as I have with some other hinge releases. See TruBall's youTube video about their Absolute 360 release---apparently another solution to this peep rise issue.

I marked the moon with pencil to help micro tune. Use straight spine alignment & back tension form/pull/follow through as Larry Wise advocates & I think you will be pleased.


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