# ASA Bow Novice class in ASA question



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

On the state level does anyone feel wrong not saying anything if you see a longtime archer shooting this class regardless if it is his first time shooting ASA?

Actually I have seen this happen on pro am level as well. 

Always been one of those things that seems very wrong with the sport and possiable drives novice shooters away from doing the sport.


DB


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## RickyM (Mar 6, 2006)

It's just plain wrong to me also DB. Novice is for a beginner...not a guy thats been shooting for years, and just wants to see his name at top of the board...I would be ashame.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

RickyM said:


> It's just plain wrong to me also DB. Novice is for a beginner...not a guy thats been shooting for years, and just wants to see his name at top of the board...I would be ashame.


Not sure how and why we dont police this class more. Often obvious to shooters in the state. We often see it and no one ever seems to do anything about it. Sure not fair to the archers just entering the sport. 
DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Here's the thing; A person joins the ASA he or she must start somewhere. Upon joining he or she is at the mercy of the State Director. Here, the State Director can place the individual due to various reasons, one being his or her qualifications. I do know of a individual who informed of his archery skills. He was placed in Open B right off the bat.

And of course, according LD Falks, there have been people in Bow Novice for years and years..... They can't win out, they can't win out.

Of course, State Directors and their "home made" rules can move up people. Moved up at State and the person is moved up at the National level. This sort of sucks. I've seen people in the Bow Novice class win at the state level that couldn't shoot their way out of a wet paper bag - They just plain got lucky. Luck and skill are two different things. 

From the years of hearing of the flack over the Bow Novice Class perhaps it needs done away with. 

There is no Bow Novice in the NFAA and they sure seem to have a lot of fixed pin shooters. Yes, eighteen years old with fixed pins goes right to Adult Bow Hunter Free Style, a class that has had shooters in seeming forever.

Adult Free Style has no class break down like ASA has (Open C, B and A) and again tons of Adult Free Style shooters.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

I would have to say something to the Novice shooters, granted I am only the Area Rep but the person I run everything by also agrees with this. 
We feel that if someone wins that class they must move out. 
Personally I think the Novice class should be reserved for 1st time ASA shooters, but I would take into consideration their IBO standing as well (if there are any)

Have not had someone show up that is a long time archer try to shoot the novice class. Not sure what he would do in that instance, if we knew the person personally and knew their abilities, would probably ask him to move out.
This is a right and obligation the State Reps have. Before I make a decision like this I always run it by Mike and Dee.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Here's the thing; A person joins the ASA he or she must start somewhere. Upon joining he or she is at the mercy of the State Director. Here, the State Director can place the individual due to various reasons, one being his or her qualifications. I do know of a individual who informed of his archery skills. He was placed in Open B right off the bat.
> 
> And of course, according LD Falks, there have been people in Bow Novice for years and years..... They can't win out, they can't win out.
> 
> ...




Sonny, you best learn your NFAA rules before you go on about they dont have a class break down......NFAA does have a breakdown......MFS....does have "AA" ""A"" and """B"" levels...... They also do flighting. 

Also, the states that have directors that have programs in place about shooters moving up have those guidelines sent in to the national director for review and acceptance. 

I know Texas has a move up program, mostly for the fact that their shooters shoot in their state and some into Oklahoma, as their major shoots.. ( a few ) shoot the pro/ams. 

For the state of Florida, there is a move up program, but its a little more then a shoot / and state shoot that musters up a move. This is in part for the fact that a major majority of the shooters here do shoot the Pro/Am events. 

Now, for my personal belief , and opinion. I think that bow novice has some warranted claim for being a class, but may need some more tweeking in the meaning of what ''''bow novice'' should really mean as to shooting 3d.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

My thoughts make bow novice a trophy class only. That would certianly would help weed those out in there to win cash from others that really belong. Sad these guys Im sure sit back and laugh and know they dont belong in the class. Sad fact is what they dont realize archers are not stupid and we know someone who been shooting many years. Shame on them.
DB


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

If you know them or know of them try humiliating them in front of peers.

When I went to my very first state championship and national ASA event I skipped over Novice. Some folks think "Novice" class means "has not won a national championship" or has not "won out". I don't feel that way but it is a very popular sentiment.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> If you know them or know of them try humiliating them in front of peers.


I like your style.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

D' Boone, you are a pretty big boy just poke him in the chest and say you are a punk b*&^% if you shoot bow novice..........


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bhtr3d said:


> Sonny, you best learn your NFAA rules before you go on about they dont have a class break down......NFAA does have a breakdown......MFS....does have "AA" ""A"" and """B"" levels...... They also do flighting.
> 
> Also, the states that have directors that have programs in place about shooters moving up have those guidelines sent in to the national director for review and acceptance.


The question was held to state level. Not once during my term on the Board of Directors of the IAA or time as a member of the NFAA did our state have "AA" and the such. Flighting is not the same as a designated class. As such; You could win State Champion in your class and at the next sanctioned or State Championship end up with 3rd place in Flight G.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> D' Boone, you are a pretty big boy just poke him in the chest and say you are a punk b*&^% if you shoot bow novice..........


Heck then they would kick me out of State ASA. LOL Need to get us oldtimers out that want fairness for newbies anyway. 
DB


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

What is a fair class for someone that can shoot but, has never really toyed with figuring yardage?


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

edgerat said:


> What is a fair class for someone that can shoot but, has never really toyed with figuring yardage?


The Known classes.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

XForce Girl said:


> The Known classes.


I would've gone with Open B. Since it's half and half, it should give a man a chance to not completely embarass himself while he learns to judge.

Known 45 is a dead end road that I'm living right now. Once you get kicked out of K45 you can go to the irrelevant class of K50 (and compete against the likes of Chris Berry, Sam Wolthius, Dave Cousins, Keith Trail, Jesse Broadwater, etc......if you beat all of them, your trip might pay for itself) or back to pure judging classes with the boys that really can judge (and shoot) in Open A or Semi.

I'll be re-learning to judge.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

XForce Girl said:


> The Known classes.


What Known class for pin shooters?


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

redfish said:


> What Known class for pin shooters?


Sure you can shoot pins in the known classes, I think a guy won a pro/am in Known shooting pins.
Who cares anyway, he already said he wasn't good at judging yardage. OR should we make another class for those people? Like they're aren't enough already.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

What I don't understand is it obvious to do the right thing. I feel sorry for the archer who is a true novice.

I have no sympathy for someone who shooting a novice class with years of tournament experience.

Sometime we just sit back and let it happen. We all realize it wrong but yet allow it. Thats wrong and I dont care who hear me say it.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

edgerat said:


> What is a fair class for someone that can shoot but, has never really toyed with figuring yardage?


Learn to judge yardage. Thats not really that hard. Lot easier than learning to shoot.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Here how I see it. It like a bully whipping up on the novice shooter. Bully says I have all my years of shooting exsperiance but dont want to lose in the higher classes. So I will go shoot the novice class where I can win. 

Where the justice for the new archer and Im figuring this is why we often see novice drop out and say hey I cant win in the novice class. Heck no you cant win against someone with years of tournament shooting.


DB


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## keyman (Mar 22, 2003)

I don't know DB but it sure aggrevates me to see it happening in our state. Need to put a stop to it.


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

I thought that even at the local level the ASA rules applied. You win or place high enough several times then you're out. Well maybe not local tourn. but the qualifiers. Anyway, yeah, someone with the ability to shoot another class but stays in just to win a trophy should move out. Then you have shooters with limited abilities but with expreiance shooting BN. They're no threat to win and very seldom place (donators like me:wink Well if you force them to a class where they can't compete at all, then you've lost a shooter. They quit. Nobody likes missing targets and finishing at the bottom all the time. One thing is actually the name Bow Novice maybe it should called something diff. like the open classes say hunter 1 and hunter 2 or A and B. 
Charlie


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> Here how I see it. It like a bully whipping up on the novice shooter. Bully says I have all my years of shooting exsperiance but dont want to lose in the higher classes. So I will go shoot the novice class where I can win.
> 
> Where the justice for the new archer and Im figuring this is why we often see novice drop out and say hey I cant win in the novice class. Heck no you cant win against someone with years of tournament shooting.
> 
> ...


I agree, 
we could pull their qualifier scores and if they shot UP in Novice, maybe they need to move. Or just put a time limit on it for some career novice shooters, say 3 top 3 finishes and then you gotta move out.
or just do like Kstigall said... embrass them in front of their peers. (I like this one) Even if only in a joking manner, if someone said something to them, maybe they would think twice about entering that class.

If someone always finishes in the bottom, then they can obviously stay.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Daniel Boone said:


> Learn to judge yardage. Thats not really that hard. Lot easier than learning to shoot.
> DB


If I show up at a 3D shoot with my AlphaElite all setup, I doubt I could get away with saying I am a novice  Just curious what would be fair. I don't have any intention of trying to get one over on anyone and I like competition. I also know that if I get my hind-end handed to me because I got put in a class that I can't compete in, I won't come back.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

edgerat said:


> If I show up at a 3D shoot with my AlphaElite all setup, I doubt I could get away with saying I am a novice  Just curious what would be fair. I don't have any intention of trying to get one over on anyone and I like competition. I also know that if I get my hind-end handed to me because I got put in a class that I can't compete in, I won't come back.


It doesn't have anything to do with your set-up, even novice shooters buy high end bows. You can shoot novice your first year in ASA. 
unless you have a reputation around your state of being a great shooter and winning everything, I think that's the point the Op was trying to make.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

keyman said:


> I don't know DB but it sure aggrevates me to see it happening in our state. Need to put a stop to it.


I think many Oklahoma archers are the same page. We see this happen and nothing done about it.

We want to encourage new archers this is not the way to do it.
DB


DB


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## tpeters (Apr 29, 2010)

Normally I don't post on topics like this as not to start anything. But as this hits a nerve so I'm going to. This is why I've not joined ASA in Oklahoma, as a new shooter I look at the posted scores to see where my skill level needs to be to compete. While I can shoot constsantly at 160-180 occasionally higher. I see guys shooting clean or up alot in the novice class. So I shoot the local an club shoots to improve. An don't take this as whining cause I don't mind competition, as the group of guys I shoot with are all way better than me. An that what's got me to where I'm at with only a year of 3D shooting under my belt. I just can't justify membership an entry fees plus travel to just show up an shoot. But I may be wrong, I have been before so may in a couple more years I'll be good enough to shoot the novice class.


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## possum#1 (Mar 28, 2009)

I am thinking about going to London for the ASA this year.I have only shot local shoots that mostly are IBO.I shoot hunter class there.What class should I shoot in the ASA shoot?Thanks


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Is novice a known yardage class?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

tpeters said:


> Normally I don't post on topics like this as not to start anything. But as this hits a nerve so I'm going to. This is why I've not joined ASA in Oklahoma, as a new shooter I look at the posted scores to see where my skill level needs to be to compete. While I can shoot constsantly at 160-180 occasionally higher. I see guys shooting clean or up alot in the novice class. So I shoot the local an club shoots to improve. An don't take this as whining cause I don't mind competition, as the group of guys I shoot with are all way better than me. An that what's got me to where I'm at with only a year of 3D shooting under my belt. I just can't justify membership an entry fees plus travel to just show up an shoot. But I may be wrong, I have been before so may in a couple more years I'll be good enough to shoot the novice class.


You right guys should not be shooting those type of scores. Novice is a class for guys like you. Good luck in the future. One day you make the move and move up and compete in other classes.
DB


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## HoughsArchery (Oct 7, 2011)

I personally think if its your very first "big" tournament it would be ok to shoot novice just to get a feel for it but if you have shot big shoots before and are a good archer then no it should not be allowed.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

keyman said:


> I don't know DB but it sure aggrevates me to see it happening in our state. Need to put a stop to it.



Rules

ASA reserves the right at any time to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization.

Im wondering what qaulifys a person for bow novice. 10yrs shooting or more? How many other events they won shouldnt that matter?

DB


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## Ghost 133 (Mar 18, 2005)

OK. I am going to go right by the State level problem as every state seems to have their own veiw of things. My opinion on the ASA National events is if you shoot any ASA National event this year in the Novice class,whether you win or not, you are not eligible to paricipate in the class next year. Plain and simple.One year and done.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Ghost 133 said:


> OK. I am going to go right by the State level problem as every state seems to have their own veiw of things. My opinion on the ASA National events is if you shoot any ASA National event this year in the Novice class,whether you win or not, you are not eligible to paricipate in the class next year. Plain and simple.One year and done.


Excellant rule. But still if others in ASA know the archer and his exsperiance they need to notify the ASA and make it known this is not a novice shooter.
DB
DB


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

I have DQ'ed several Bow Novice shooters when I found out their shooting history clearly indicated they were not Novices. I know most shooters in my area but if I see a newcomer signing up in Bow Novice I ask him about his shooting history. If I am not satisfied I ask other shooters. Most of the time the shooters can give you a lot of info about other shooters. In one case I found out during the round from other shooters that this guy had previously shot semi-pro in IBO. I confronted him when he turned in his card. When I asked him he told me he had shot semi-pro previously. I took his card and DQ'ed him right there. 

We have one Texas ASA member that monitors each qualifier and posts the current move up list each week. So far we have moved up two BN shooters in 2012 and several more are "on the bubble".....which means they are close to meeting our move requirements.

Here are the Texas Federation Bow Novice and Open C move up rules:

Bow Novice and Open C Move Up Rule for 2012

Shooters will move up for the rest of the season if they:
Win 2 qualifiers with 10 or more shooters in their class
Or
Have 3 top three finishes with 10 or more shooters in their class
Or
Win the state championship


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## tpeters (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks DB.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Dan I agree with you. Someone could argue that competing at their 1st Asa or national event qualifys them to shoot novice since the definition has the word beginner is stated.

But in reality and truth your correct IMHO. 

Just to add, we have too many classes as it is


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Definately way too many classes..... Should be only Mens Open, Mens P/R, Womens Open, Womens P/R and maybe the youth and cub classes... And flight them accordingly.... (and maybe even throw in a Known class) Theres just no need for Novice, A,B,C, Seniors and what ever else....


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## wvlongshot (Aug 11, 2008)

ASA can flag a novice shooters asa number easy enough, 1 year in a novice class then up ya go the next year. But novice classes aren't the only ones with problems.....sandbaggers in other ones also.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Tallcatt said:


> Here are the Texas Federation Bow Novice and Open C move up rules:
> 
> Bow Novice and Open C Move Up Rule for 2012
> 
> ...


Granted, Texas has a great deal more shooters per State Championship than other states, but here is where one Illinios Bow Novice got lucky and took Champion. I stepped in and asked that his move out be over ruled. It was.
One, regular club records proved him not all that great of shot.
Two, his performance in other ASA events proved him not all that great of shot.
Three, he actually won thorugh the actual winner being disqualified. The disqualified person had won out earlier on the National level and should have moved up - Error from ASA Headquarters and the person had aslo recieved a letter regarding is move out.
If I remember correctly, the Lucky Champion never won enough money to even pay his fee for the Championship. And he had never placed in any State ASA event.
Almost two years now (July) and that lucky Champion has never placed since in Bow Novice. 
All proves he should never have been moved out......


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## knox_nate (Dec 27, 2009)

Well Georgia was my first ASA and there were plenty shooting in novice that had been shooting for years. I really didn't understand why they wouldn't be shooting in the higher classes to be goin up against people of their similar skill level. I was just glad I hit foam on all of the animals and brought all my arrows back. 

I am going to finish up the year in novice and then try to shoot in a higher class next year. I could see a 1 year in novice and then 
move on up.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Tallcatt said:


> I have DQ'ed several Bow Novice shooters when I found out their shooting history clearly indicated they were not Novices. I know most shooters in my area but if I see a newcomer signing up in Bow Novice I ask him about his shooting history. If I am not satisfied I ask other shooters. Most of the time the shooters can give you a lot of info about other shooters. In one case I found out during the round from other shooters that this guy had previously shot semi-pro in IBO. I confronted him when he turned in his card. When I asked him he told me he had shot semi-pro previously. I took his card and DQ'ed him right there.
> 
> We have one Texas ASA member that monitors each qualifier and posts the current move up list each week. So far we have moved up two BN shooters in 2012 and several more are "on the bubble".....which means they are close to meeting our move requirements.
> 
> ...


Mike this is how it should be. Most of us in the state know most shooters who have been around the sport and there expertise. My promblem is how you convince others of this. Seems giving history goes on death ears here. Often it as simple as right and wrong. :wink:
DB


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## keyman (Mar 22, 2003)

What is bad at the state level is that the Novice class(because of number of shooters) pays back more money than the open class, senior class, unlimited and many times, it pays more than the known class, pro class and hunter class. This is not fair to let someone steal novice shooters' money as well as deterring novices from shooting our qualifiers.


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

Make novice at the state level trophy class and problem is solved. TX rules work too


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## casarmichael (Jan 7, 2012)

*one and done*

In our circuit you have one season in the novice class and if you finish in the top ten on the season you couldn't shoot the class again


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## TMax27 (Nov 7, 2006)

tpeters said:


> Normally I don't post on topics like this as not to start anything. But as this hits a nerve so I'm going to. This is why I've not joined ASA in Oklahoma, as a new shooter I look at the posted scores to see where my skill level needs to be to compete. While I can shoot constsantly at 160-180 occasionally higher. I see guys shooting clean or up alot in the novice class. So I shoot the local an club shoots to improve. An don't take this as whining cause I don't mind competition, as the group of guys I shoot with are all way better than me. An that what's got me to where I'm at with only a year of 3D shooting under my belt. I just can't justify membership an entry fees plus travel to just show up an shoot. But I may be wrong, I have been before so may in a couple more years I'll be good enough to shoot the novice class.


Don't be discouraged about the scores. Not sure if you know or not, Bow Novice is 30 Yard Max, KNOWN distances. 2010 was my first year shooting tournaments, honestly the first year I actually knew how to shoot. Before the Paris Pro/Am in 2010, I had not even completed a 20 target course without losing all my arrows. In other words, I was completely NOVICE. Went to the Pro/Am and shot even, or there abouts. Won a qualifier, and finished 3rd at State. Don't sell yourself short, we all got to start somewhere.

You ask, how did you go from loosing arrows to shooting good and winning??? I asked for help here on AT and other forums! DB, RandyD, woodbooger, ABOK, and a few others showed me some things that quickly got me on the right track, along with spending a lot of time shooting indoor the winter of 2010.

After that year in Novice, I moved up, even finished good a qualifier as well as other 3d tournaments in the Hunter class. Give it a shot, you'll suprised yourself!


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## TMax27 (Nov 7, 2006)

For move ups, here's what I'd do:

2 Years MAX in Novice
Top 3 in a qualifier, you move up the next year
Top 10 at state, you move up the next year

I know of one feller that shoots nearly ALL the Pro/Ams... This is his FOURTH year in NOVICE!!! Time to move up LOL


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

8 years. 8 years of hearing the cry baby crap over Bow Novice whether State or National level. 99% of the time it's all right here on AT, not the ASA forums. Probably more than anything it's brought up to "stir the pot."
ASA has a rule in place. Some states have their own rules.
IF there is someone who shouldn't be in the bow novice classes, then someone should contact their State Director or ASA and say so, not complain here on "deaf ears." Having proof is all the better. I had the proof to stop a move out, so seems to reason there should be proof to move some one out.

Since our club became active (hosting ASA events) I have kept the results of every Qualifier and every State Championship. Seems if some one were so concerned they'd do the same thing.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Some one brought it up, Sand bagging. Our state has never had the numbers in Qualifiers or State Champions so I'm at a loss. Just how does Sand Bagging help in the novice classes? Give another year's experience in Sand Box class?


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## tpeters (Apr 29, 2010)

TMax27 said:


> Don't be discouraged about the scores. Not sure if you know or not, Bow Novice is 30 Yard Max, KNOWN distances. 2010 was my first year shooting tournaments, honestly the first year I actually knew how to shoot. Before the Paris Pro/Am in 2010, I had not even completed a 20 target course without losing all my arrows. In other words, I was completely NOVICE. Went to the Pro/Am and shot even, or there abouts. Won a qualifier, and finished 3rd at State. Don't sell yourself short, we all got to start somewhere.
> 
> You ask, how did you go from loosing arrows to shooting good and winning??? I asked for help here on AT and other forums! DB, RandyD, woodbooger, ABOK, and a few others showed me some things that quickly got me on the right track, along with spending a lot of time shooting indoor the winter of 2010.
> 
> After that year in Novice, I moved up, even finished good a qualifier as well as other 3d tournaments in the Hunter class. Give it a shot, you'll suprised yourself!



Thanks TMax27,

I knew bow novice was a 30yd max. The other shoots that I shoot we have to judge yardage even in bow novice, an was told by several people that it was that way in ASA also. So that was why I never bother to look into any farther when I looked at the results from some of the qualifiers. An saw the scores that were posted, may have look into a little more as I'd like the opportunity to make a few more shoots. Funny, you say that about losing arrows , a year ago I'd send more time loooking for arrows that shooting. At least these days I can keep'em in the 8 ring most of the time. May have to look you up some time an shoot a round.
Thanks tpeters


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## TMax27 (Nov 7, 2006)

tpeters said:


> Thanks TMax27,
> 
> I knew bow novice was a 30yd max. The other shoots that I shoot we have to judge yardage even in bow novice, an was told by several people that it was that way in ASA also. So that was why I never bother to look into any farther when I looked at the results from some of the qualifiers. An saw the scores that were posted, may have look into a little more as I'd like the opportunity to make a few more shoots. Funny, you say that about losing arrows , a year ago I'd send more time loooking for arrows that shooting. At least these days I can keep'em in the 8 ring most of the time. May have to look you up some time an shoot a round.
> Thanks tpeters


No problem! Not sure how close you are to Texas, but they have a shoot coming up that you could qualify for our State championship if you wanted to and not have to drive halfway across the state to qualify. http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/showthread.php?p=5279850

All the qualifiers for your area are passed, but our State Championship is in Connorville, OK. Never hurts to come out and try your luck. Yeah, you'll get the occassional sandbagger, but for the most part, the Novice Class here in OK is just that... NOVICE.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

possum#1 said:


> I am thinking about going to London for the ASA this year.I have only shot local shoots that mostly are IBO.I shoot hunter class there.What class should I shoot in the ASA shoot?Thanks


ASA "Bow Novice" is ALL known yardage with a 35 yard max and "Hunter" is unkown distance the first day and "known" the second day with a 40 yard max. I've never shot "Bow Novice" so I can't really speak to what it's like but I do know that "Hunter" is a class where every year a few guys really shine. In "Hunter" class there are guys that will be competing at a high level in the very near future. It's up to you but if you like shooting some unmarked distances then shoot "Hunter". Don't miss out on the "PRo/Am" that is at 1:00 on Friday.


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## tpeters (Apr 29, 2010)

TMax,
Was just reading about that shoot on here. Been to Cinnamon Creek twice this year once for the R-100 an a couple weeks ago, buddy wanted to go to Cabela's so we took are bows an made a day of it. Guys said they had a big shoot coming up in june. May have to see what i've got going on that weekend. 
Tpeters


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## tntone (Aug 13, 2006)

i have a huge problem with it, too me if you can shoot UP on the range and place in the top 10 or 20 you should have to go to the next class. friend of mine went a few years back and has shot several ranges before and i tried to get him to shoot he hunter class but he wanted to shoot novice and try to win, didnt happed, i shot hunter class, then we get back to work and he is telling everyone that he placed better than i did, but said nothing about the different classes... if you have shot 3D before and understand the concept you should move up, if your a terrible shot then its understandable, but not when your shooting 20 or 30 up....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

tntone said:


> i have a huge problem with it, too me if you can shoot UP on the range and place in the top 10 or 20 you should have to go to the next class. friend of mine went a few years back and has shot several ranges before and i tried to get him to shoot he hunter class but he wanted to shoot novice and try to win, didnt happed, i shot hunter class, then we get back to work and he is telling everyone that he placed better than i did, but said nothing about the different classes... if you have shot 3D before and understand the concept you should move up, if your a terrible shot then its understandable, but not when your shooting 20 or 30 up....


Your right on the mark. Novice is not for any exspoerianced archer. States should be more like Texas and monitor shooters.
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

3dbowmaster said:


> Definately way too many classes..... Should be only Mens Open, Mens P/R, Womens Open, Womens P/R and maybe the youth and cub classes... And flight them accordingly.... (and maybe even throw in a Known class) Theres just no need for Novice, A,B,C, Seniors and what ever else....



I dont agree with the too many classes in ASA, but thats ok....

Personally when I have to travel 8+ hours to the closest ones, fly to others. I would like to be in a class where I feel I at least have a chance. However I never do, because I fold like a cheap suit when I get to these events.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Garceau said:


> I dont agree with the too many classes in ASA, but thats ok....
> 
> Personally when I have to travel 8+ hours to the closest ones, fly to others. I would like to be in a class where I feel I at least have a chance. However I never do, because I fold like a cheap suit when I get to these events.


I cant find this class in ASA LOL Been shooting them a longtime. Quess this is why no one ever calls me a sandbagger. 
DB


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Bow Novice should be what it is... Novice, rookie, etc. One year max and you're done.

I'm still of the feeling that paying any class that's not a pro class just exacerbates this problem. 

End of the day, the issue is easily solved when talking in terms of ASA shoots due to the fact that you have an ASA number. It's easy enough to apply rules to what class a person shoots, when they bump, etc. Just make use of a little voodoo called technology and the problem is easily solved. 

Now, if only such voodoo existed.. :heh:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

How many people does the BN class draw?

How many would not participate if they were moved up to C or another class?

Im guessing the answer to BN and ASA lies in the revenue it generates - cant completely argue that logic, they are a for profit business I think


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> I cant find this class in ASA LOL Been shooting them a longtime. Quess this is why no one ever calls me a sandbagger.
> DB


eh you and me both..... I get a lot of ribbing for the way I mentally collapse, sucks....LOL

I shoot well here, with the same group I travel with. Then I somehow have an outer body experience the entire 3 days I am there and never really do figure out what I am doing. Heck I think sometimes Im like a wind up toy just bumping into things with my legs churning.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I'm in regret. Now that I've studied it, I was perfectly eligible to shoot bow novice last year and maybe even this year. :doh:

It's well within the rules so it must be "fair" right?


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

tmorelli said:


> I'm in regret. Now that I've studied it, I was perfectly eligible to shoot bow novice last year and maybe even this year. :doh:
> 
> It's well within the rules so it must be "fair" right?


Yes, please, switch already! I'm tired of giving you all my money in the K45 class.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Rules the way I see it says all prior archery exsperiances. Some think if you never shot ASA that means you can shoot novice.

Why is it Im being told just because they dont have ASA exsperianced there allowed?

This is how the rules read.

Rules

ASA reserves the right at any time to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

Based on that, I am good, should I ever come down to ASA-land, to shoot Bow Novice.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> Rules the way I see it says all prior archery exsperiances. Some think if you never shot ASA that means you can shoot novice.
> 
> Why is it Im being told just because they dont have ASA exsperianced there allowed?
> 
> ...


Dan. Back during the Top Gun team days every team was looking for a good Bow Novice because they had a low CAR point rating...I think they counted 2 points. Well we had a team that got a NFAA pro that had never shot 3D for their Bow Novice. When we told the team he could not shoot based on....*knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization.*..this team went nuts. It went to the ASA national office fast. The ASA national office backed us up and he was not allowed to participate. I have used this rule several times to place archers in a higher class. *The key is that the state ASA officials have to watch what is going on and enforce the rules.*


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Tallcatt said:


> Dan. Back during the Top Gun team days every team was looking for a good Bow Novice because they had a low CAR point rating...I think they counted 2 points. Well we had a team that got a NFAA pro that had never shot 3D for their Bow Novice. When we told the team he could not shoot based on....*knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization.*..this team went nuts. It went to the ASA national office fast. The ASA national office backed us up and he was not allowed to participate. I have used this rule several times to place archers in a higher class. *The key is that the state ASA officials have to watch what is going on and enforce the rules.*


Mike this is the case here. Fact is some went to ASA and found no record of said novice in ASA. Well by reading the rules it dont matter. I can show different assc. where said novice shot higher classes well and has been shooting well for years.
DB


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> 8 years. 8 years of hearing the cry baby crap over Bow Novice whether State or National level. 99% of the time it's all right here on AT, not the ASA forums. Probably more than anything it's brought up to "stir the pot."
> ASA has a rule in place. Some states have their own rules.
> IF there is someone who shouldn't be in the bow novice classes, then someone should contact their State Director or ASA and say so, not complain here on "deaf ears." Having proof is all the better. I had the proof to stop a move out, so seems to reason there should be proof to move some one out.
> 
> Since our club became active (hosting ASA events) I have kept the results of every Qualifier and every State Championship. Seems if some one were so concerned they'd do the same thing.


This hits the nail on the head...most of the people that do all the complaining don't even shoot the class. Some don't have anything better to do than post on Internet forums. There are many reasons that some shooters stay in novice, only a very few are good enough to win out at the pro-am level. Some have physical limitations, some have vision issues and some are just not very good at the sport. Forcing a middle of the pack shooter to a higher class will just cause him to abandon the sport, which will hurt the sport. If you guys don't shoot the class let it police itself.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

redfish said:


> This hits the nail on the head...most of the people that do all the complaining don't even shoot the class. Some don't have anything better to do than post on Internet forums. There are many reasons that some shooters stay in novice, only a very few are good enough to win out at the pro-am level. Some have physical limitations, some have vision issues and some are just not very good at the sport. Forcing a middle of the pack shooter to a higher class will just cause him to abandon the sport, which will hurt the sport. If you guys don't shoot the class let it police itself.


 Sad but this is how so many feel and it does allow for those who should not be shooting the class to get away with. Just close your eyes and let a experianced archer shoot all year and win money from novice shooters. Some have nothing better to do than allow others to violate rules. No wonder Texas does so well they do police and get actions taken.
DB

Im queesing you got no promblems with guys cheating? Because lying and entering a bow novice class knowing your not a novice is cheating.


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I have always said that bow novice should be a trophy class ,don't count 12's or 14's .Then you would see true novice shooters .Just look at the score 40+ up is no novice .I would think a true novice would be happy just hitting all the targets.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

John-in-VA said:


> .I would think a true novice would be happy just hitting all the targets.


Arent we all on some days? 

Happy to hit all the targets that is.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Sad but this is how so many feel and it does allow for those who should not be shooting the class to get away with. Just close your eyes and let a experianced archer shoot all year and win money from novice shooters. Some have nothing better to do than allow others to violate rules. No wonder Texas does so well they do police and get actions taken.
> DB
> 
> Im queesing you got no promblems with guys cheating? Because lying and entering a bow novice class knowing your not a novice is cheating.


Read the rules...and no I don't like cheating sooo don't insinuate that I do...what I said was that if you move out every middle of the pack shooter out they will probably quit as they are not competitive @30 known what makes you think they will stay shooting when forced to shoot @40 with half unknown? And again don't say I have no problems with cheating. If they are shooting within the rules and you don't like it do what you can to change them.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

John-in-VA said:


> I have always said that bow novice should be a trophy class ,don't count 12's or 14's .Then you would see true novice shooters .Just look at the score 40+ up is no novice .I would think a true novice would be happy just hitting all the targets.


Agreed...but at least those guys are 1 shoot wonders and they get moved up.But the not so good shooters need a class were they can hope to be competetive. Not everybody has the skills to be a pro.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

redfish said:


> Read the rules...and no I don't like cheating sooo don't insinuate that I do...what I said was that if you move out every middle of the pack shooter out they will probably quit as they are not competitive @30 known what makes you think they will stay shooting when forced to shoot @40 with half unknown? And again don't say I have no problems with cheating. If they are shooting within the rules and you don't like it do what you can to change them.



So if you know of a archer in Florida shooting in bow novice that should not be shooting it you would certainly make your state director aware of it wouldn't you? No I doubt you would because it not your class. Who talking about anyone shooting within the rules here? Im all for anyone who is a novice shooting the class! 

Your qoute

This hits the nail on the head...most of the people that do all the complaining don't even shoot the class. Some don't have anything better to do than post on Internet forums.


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## tpeters (Apr 29, 2010)

As I said earlier when you look at scores an see guys shooting clean an up in the novice class. It's discouraging to the new shooters like myself who just feel lucky to keep'em in the foam. Then when you spend the day shooting with a guy who's dropping tens an twelves every shot. an you ask how long they've been shooting an they say four or five years it really discourages new shooters. I'm porbably luckier than most as I shoot with a good group of guys who have helped me keep focused and improving over the last year. But before I meet these guys I went to some shoots by myself an got my backside handed to me in this manner. If I hadn't enjoyed shooting so much I would have just packed it in an probably quit. Thinking man there's no way I can compete with these guys,so why bother. But this is a novice shooters opinion(an we know what they are),so take it however you want.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

tpeters said:


> As I said earlier when you look at scores an see guys shooting clean an up in the novice class. It's discouraging to the new shooters like myself who just feel lucky to keep'em in the foam. Then when you spend the day shooting with a guy who's dropping tens an twelves every shot. an you ask how long they've been shooting an they say four or five years it really discourages new shooters. I'm porbably luckier than most as I shoot with a good group of guys who have helped me keep focused and improving over the last year. But before I meet these guys I went to some shoots by myself an got my backside handed to me in this manner. If I hadn't enjoyed shooting so much I would have just packed it in an probably quit. Thinking man there's no way I can compete with these guys,so why bother. But this is a novice shooters opinion(an we know what they are),so take it however you want.


It you and others why I take on the fight for justice in this class. I dont sit back and let an injustice happen. I may not win the fight but Ill darn sure make my point and show everyone who envolved the rules and how it should be. Understand lots of good archers agree with you entirely here in the state and if nothing else. If anyone in the state thinks Im wrong, Ill gladly prove my point with scores from previous years. 
DB


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

How about 2 classes for pins and 2 for open. Pins max 40 yards open max 50. Day 1 everyone shoots then day 2 everyone is peered and broken down by score and separated on different ranges. Problem solved and when you sign up you can only sign up for 1 of 2 classes. No lens in pins class and only a front bar. Flight the groups as A B C and so on. Pros will be separate

Men 
Pins
Open
Known
Pro

Women
Pins
Open
Known
Pro

Senior
Pins
Open
Pro

11 classes and flight them easy enough


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## tpeters (Apr 29, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> It you and others why I take on the fight for justice in this class. I dont sit back and let an injustice happen. I may not win the fight but Ill darn sure make my point and show everyone who envolved the rules and how it should be. Understand lots of good archers agree with you entirely here in the state and if nothing else. If anyone in the state thinks Im wrong, Ill gladly prove my point with scores from previous years.
> DB


DB,
From the responses on this thread from you an TMax27. I'm thinking I may look into ASA next year just to see if i can compete. With the knowledge that there are a few good guys out there trying to make this sport what it should be. An I've no problem with moving to a higher class if my skill level warrants it,so new shooters will have a place they can compete. Thanks Tpeters


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

tpeters said:


> DB,
> From the responses on this thread from you an TMax27. I'm thinking I may look into ASA next year just to see if i can compete. With the knowledge that there are a few good guys out there trying to make this sport what it should be. An I've no problem with moving to a higher class if my skill level warrants it,so new shooters will have a place they can compete. Thanks Tpeters


Let me know and Ill help you any way I can. Great bunch of archers in Oklahoma ASA. Regardless what part of the state will find someone to get you on the right track. Everyone starts some where.
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

I hope this thread has been infomative to range officers here in Oklahoma. If you guys know a archer doesnt belong in a class. Start early in the year with first qaulifers and make this fact known.

DB


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

cenochs said:


> How about 2 classes for pins and 2 for open. Pins max 40 yards open max 50. Day 1 everyone shoots then day 2 everyone is peered and broken down by score and separated on different ranges. Problem solved and when you sign up you can only sign up for 1 of 2 classes. No lens in pins class and only a front bar. Flight the groups as A B C and so on. Pros will be separate
> 
> Men
> Pins
> ...


Why no lens or back bar? If the customers want it why would you say no? 
What about youths?

Flights are a joke! I'd take a cut of the pot or trophies and hold a drawing before giving "trophies" based on mathematical division of the participants.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> Why no lens or back bar? If the customers want it why would you say no?
> What about youths?
> 
> Flights are a joke! I'd take a cut of the pot or trophies and hold a drawing before giving "trophies" based on mathematical division of the participants.


I never have won a flight and felt it was right. JUst something Ill never understand.
DB


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

tpeters said:


> DB,
> From the responses on this thread from you an TMax27. I'm thinking I may look into ASA next year just to see if i can compete. With the knowledge that there are a few good guys out there trying to make this sport what it should be. An I've no problem with moving to a higher class if my skill level warrants it,so new shooters will have a place they can compete. Thanks Tpeters


The point that I am trying to make is what if your skill levels DON'T warrant it. What then?


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## TMax27 (Nov 7, 2006)

Here's what Webster says...

nov·ice/ˈnɑ:vəs/noun 
plural nov·ic·es

1: a person who has just started learning or doing something 
▪ He's a novice in cooking.▪ a novice [=beginner] at skiing▪ a book for the novice chess player


Just because someone is not good at something, does not mean they are a beginniner (aka NOVICE). We already have class divisions for those who are better than others, in both pins and open equipment.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

redfish said:


> The point that I am trying to make is what if your skill levels DON'T warrant it. What then?


Unfortunately there can only be one winner per class. I don't win every shoot I enter and I have nobody to blame but myself. I didn't practice hard enough and I just plain didn't shoot as well as the person who won. Whatever the reason, we cannot have a class for everyone, and not everyone can win!!

Women don't even have the option of a novice class, we have to either jump into hunter or known and there are really good shooters in both.


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## kgredraider (Apr 18, 2012)

I've enjoyed reading this thread, as I am about to shoot my first 3d tournament tomorrow! 

I've bow hunted for several years. Just this year I have decided to take a stab at 3d and learn the ropes. I even bought a new set up just to get down to the ASA speeds :-(. For the past 3-4 months I have been shooting 3-4X a week and I feel confident that I know the rules enough to go out and just have a good time and not embarrass myself. I am going to shoot bow novice this weekend since it my first archery tournament of any type. Am I wrong to shoot BN since I didn't pick up a bow for the first time last week? I feel like this is the right class for me to start shooting.


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

Kgredraider you should be just fine .It should be for shooter just like you ,they have hunted and shoot have bow's before just not in 3 D tourniments.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

kgredraider said:


> I've enjoyed reading this thread, as I am about to shoot my first 3d tournament tomorrow!
> 
> I've bow hunted for several years. Just this year I have decided to take a stab at 3d and learn the ropes. I even bought a new set up just to get down to the ASA speeds :-(. For the past 3-4 months I have been shooting 3-4X a week and I feel confident that I know the rules enough to go out and just have a good time and not embarrass myself. I am going to shoot bow novice this weekend since it my first archery tournament of any type. Am I wrong to shoot BN since I didn't pick up a bow for the first time last week? I feel like this is the right class for me to start shooting.


You're absolutely justified in shooting the novice class. That's exactly the reason for which it exists.


It's the guys that shoot other events, win money, year after year, yet still come back to novice for ASA. Or in other cases, guys that show up to Pro-AM's in a full on uniform of all the gear they recieve from their sponsors and then say, I've never shot an ASA ProAM, so I guess I shoot novice? :nono:


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## kgredraider (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks guys!


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> So if you know of a archer in Florida shooting in bow novice that should not be shooting it you would certainly make your state director aware of it wouldn't you? No I doubt you would because it not your class. Who talking about anyone shooting within the rules here? Im all for anyone who is a novice shooting the class!
> 
> Your qoute
> 
> This hits the nail on the head...most of the people that do all the complaining don't even shoot the class. Some don't have anything better to do than post on Internet forums.


Ok, let's break this down so you may get the point that I'am trying to make.First, anyone that has shot in a higher class in any org. Should not be aloud to shoot novice. Second, Since you don't know me, you have no idea what I would do in ANY SITUATION. People that assume things very often end up with there foot in there mouth. Yes I would make my State Rep aware of any shooter on the State level that I was positive said shooter was not eligible for that class. We have good reps in fl/ga so I guess they stay on top of things better than you Oakies. Third (here's the foot in mouth reference) I do shoot Bow Novice and have for quite a while. Fourth, as far as your shooting within the rules comment, didn't you backtrack from semi-pro back to senior open? What's up with that? Kind of looks like a semi moving back to an amature class to take their money...but after all it is within the rules. Is this the pot calling the kettle black? Now the point, don't punish the middle of the pack shooter with a 1or 2 year mandatory move out. The new guys comming in will win out soon enough if they are have the talent.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

XForce Girl said:


> Unfortunately there can only be one winner per class. I don't win every shoot I enter and I have nobody to blame but myself. I didn't practice hard enough and I just plain didn't shoot as well as the person who won. Whatever the reason, we cannot have a class for everyone, and not everyone can win!!
> 
> Women don't even have the option of a novice class, we have to either jump into hunter or known and there are really good shooters in both.


 Women shoot novice also.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

redfish said:


> Women shoot novice also.


Yes they can, but I don't believe they do. Typically Novice is mostly a mens class. Not that I wouldn't mind shooting it, but I am not a novice.

Does anyone know if any women shoot the Novice class at any of the pro-ams, I am curious now.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

redfish said:


> Women shoot novice also.


Yes. 30 yards, all known. Probably kick butt to boot.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> Why no lens or back bar? If the customers want it why would you say no?
> What about youths?
> 
> Flights are a joke! I'd take a cut of the pot or trophies and hold a drawing before giving "trophies" based on mathematical division of the participants.


It was just a suggestion to simply the mess of classes that we have now.. Maybe not flight them but reduce classes... I think the word Hunter needs taken out of the classes and just name it pins.. Hunter means to mean just basic hunting equiptment.. If it where named Pins then I would let anything go except a lens then shoot Open. I had a friend win the IBO worlds awhile back and he talks about how the classes where less and his class when he won had over 300 and it paid back allot of places not just the few at the top.. Less classes is easier to manage and easier for state and local clubs to have shoots.. If you aren't any good like myself suck it up and practice and try to get better.. I don't like the ideology that if shooters don't feel it's fair they won't come back just practice and get better. If you spend your time and money to go to a national ASA Pro Am and exspect them to have a class for all levels that is rubbish. That may work for a local shoot but not a Pro Am. Heck I practiced yesterday and this evening. I finished 18th out of 25 I think in the K50 I am not looking for excuses just need practice and time it was my fourth Pro Am and I love them and like seeing how much I need to improve to compete. I am not going to spot going because I didn't do good. We need to stop worrying about hurting feelings and get back to making the shoots as fun and Competitve as possible. I would love to shoot in a class with over 300 and finish in the top 50 and then it would be something to talk about. 300 shooters would pay back 60 spots!!


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## knox_nate (Dec 27, 2009)

Why not just change novice to a known 40 and have a known 40, 45, and 50. Don't count the 14s in novice like now but keep the 12s. Keep the same restriction of fixed pins and shorter stabs. That would raise the difficulty a lot and still make it a affordable option for those not ready to spend the cash on a scope and pogo stick length stabs. I have been buying stuff piece by piece for when I move up to 45. Just a thought from a newbie.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

knox_nate said:


> Why not just change novice to a known 40 and have a known 40, 45, and 50. Don't count the 14s in novice like now but keep the 12s. Keep the same restriction of fixed pins and shorter stabs. That would raise the difficulty a lot and still make it a affordable option for those not ready to spend the cash on a scope and pogo stick length stabs. I have been buying stuff piece by piece for when I move up to 45. Just a thought from a newbie.


Keep bow novice simple. It for the starting archer in 3d. 
DB


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## bowtexan (Oct 26, 2010)

I shot my first Asa this year at Paris. I shot bow novice and thought I would do ok which I did. I also showed up with my regular hunting setup shooting VAP's. As I walked onto the course all I saw were fat shafts and v- bars and push button lights on sights. Lots and lots of them. So guess what happened? You guessed it, I put myself on an even playing field with those guys. I expect to get bumped up at my next Asa qualifier. Deservedly so. I got in the novice to take it all in learn the ropes and move up when I won myself out of the class. The way it should be.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

*ASA Bow Novice class in ASA questionReply to Thread.*



Daniel Boone said:


> Keep bow novice simple. It for the starting archer in 3d.
> DB


But the rules don't say "starting archer."
"Bow Novice – Release, fixed pins, no magnification. 30 yards, 280 FPS
This class is reserved for participants who shoot in the novice pins class at the state level,"

So where is the rule for novice pins at the state level?


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## Honker-Konker (May 10, 2012)

I placed 10th out of 95 or so people in the Bow Novice class when I was 16 which was my first and only ASA shoot roughly 9 years ago. So from my expierence in Bow Novice is that if you are a good novice shooter you should only last a couple shoots and then win too much money and have to move up to a higher class. Can't you only win $300 in a year before you have to move up? Plus I don't see a lot of Bow Novice shooters moving around from state to state so they may not be winning enough money that they are forced to move up in class.


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## RyanH (Sep 27, 2004)

Even when I started shooting I started off in hunter class and placed like 20 something the first two pro ams I was at! I didn't even win! But I wanted to further my self and shoot open class! Because I had been shooting all my life I felt that the bow novice was not the right class for me! 

I think sandbagging should be watched closer and shooters held accountable of their skills!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> But the rules don't say "starting archer."
> "Bow Novice – Release, fixed pins, no magnification. 30 yards, 280 FPS
> This class is reserved for participants who shoot in the novice pins class at the state level,"
> 
> So where is the rule for novice pins at the state level?


What in the world are you refering too. Read what the word novice means. In ever sport it means someone that never won or had success in the sport. You keep mentioning pins! What does the equipment have to do with the class? It certianly not rocket science for many of us who understand what this class is meant for. Thread about someone shooting a class with prior exsperiance and success and shooting this class. Rules seem clear as day about this!
DB

Rules, like them or not. Same goes for novice. Your not a novice move to Hunter or Open B depending on exsperiance. If your saying Open C should be called Open C novice, maybe.

Open C and Bow novice are both novice classes is how I see it.

State rules for Ok.

ASA reserves the right at any time to assign a registered shooter to a higher competition class based on knowledge of the competitor’s prior archery experience, performance in other archery competitions, or the individual’s established competition level in another organization. If, for example, someone shooting ASA for the first time feels that they are entitled to compete in the Open “C” class, but their previous archery experience, or competition status in another organization confirms that they are not a novice, then ASA reserves the right to require that individual to compete in a higher Open class. 

DB

Im all for anyone being able to file a grievance if they see a archer in this class and can prove they got prior tournament exsperiance and should not be shooting both these classes. It dont take me long to find scores. Always be sandbaggers and you do the best you can.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

Honker-Konker said:


> I placed 10th out of 95 or so people in the Bow Novice class when I was 16 which was my first and only ASA shoot roughly 9 years ago. So from my expierence in Bow Novice is that if you are a good novice shooter you should only last a couple shoots and then win too much money and have to move up to a higher class. Can't you only win $300 in a year before you have to move up? Plus I don't see a lot of Bow Novice shooters moving around from state to state so they may not be winning enough money that they are forced to move up in class.


 Absolutely correct. And if it's policed well enough at the state level it has no effect on the first year shooters that some are so worried about.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

RyanH said:


> Even when I started shooting I started off in hunter class and placed like 20 something the first two pro ams I was at! I didn't even win! But I wanted to further my self and shoot open class! Because I had been shooting all my life I felt that the bow novice was not the right class for me!
> 
> I think sandbagging should be watched closer and shooters held accountable of their skills!


That's good shooting, top 30 at the pro-am level in any class is very respectable. But everyone has different skill levels.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Honker-Konker said:


> I placed 10th out of 95 or so people in the Bow Novice class when I was 16 which was my first and only ASA shoot roughly 9 years ago. So from my expierence in Bow Novice is that if you are a good novice shooter you should only last a couple shoots and then win too much money and have to move up to a higher class. Can't you only win $300 in a year before you have to move up? Plus I don't see a lot of Bow Novice shooters moving around from state to state so they may not be winning enough money that they are forced to move up in class.


Im disscussing state level. Archer has no move up on state level. He can stay there all year. Actually with good attendance in this class, make some good money and we know what happens when money involved. States got to police this class for sure.
DB


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

John-in-VA said:


> I have always said that bow novice should be a trophy class ,don't count 12's or 14's .Then you would see true novice shooters .Just look at the score 40+ up is no novice .I would think a true novice would be happy just hitting all the targets.


i like the way you think...except while keeping it at 30 yard max, i'd might want them to do away with the known distance element.


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## bowtexan (Oct 26, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> Im disscussing state level. Archer has no move up on state level. He can stay there all year. Actually with good attendance in this class, make some good money and we know what happens when money involved. States got to police this class for sure.
> DB


You should just come down to Texas and shoot with us. We have a move up rule in place and it is enforced. Then you won't have too worry how them okies are doin it.:wink:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Daniel Boone said:


> What in the world are you refering too. Read what the word novice means.
> DB
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Honker-Konker (May 10, 2012)

Daniel Boone said:


> Im disscussing state level. Archer has no move up on state level. He can stay there all year. Actually with good attendance in this class, make some good money and we know what happens when money involved. States got to police this class for sure.
> DB


I guess I don't quite understand what you mean by state level. are you refering to local shoots by clubs or is there sanctioned ASA shoots in your state throughout the year? I thought ASA just had the Pro/Am tour that consisted of 7 shoots.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Honker-Konker said:


> I guess I don't quite understand what you mean by state level. are you refering to local shoots by clubs or is there sanctioned ASA shoots in your state throughout the year? I thought ASA just had the Pro/Am tour that consisted of 7 shoots.



The ASA Has State level competitions (Qualifiers) and then a State Championship where those who participate get invited to the Classic. 

Yes the Pro/Ams are a big part of it. But, so are the State Competitions, which is basically the grass roots of the organization, we get new shooters involved and hopefully they will eventually go to some of the Pro/Ams.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Honker-Konker said:


> I guess I don't quite understand what you mean by state level. are you refering to local shoots by clubs or is there sanctioned ASA shoots in your state throughout the year? I thought ASA just had the Pro/Am tour that consisted of 7 shoots.


States have Qaulifiers. Oklahoma has 13 state qaulifiers. Then you have a shooter of the year and state shoot.
DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Tallcatt said:


> Here are the Texas Federation Bow Novice and Open C move up rules:
> 
> Bow Novice and Open C Move Up Rule for 2012
> 
> ...


And there's one of the problems that people look at. Texas has some pretty big ASA Qualifiers and a big State Championship compared to other States. In 2010 we had 7 in Bow Novice (8th disqualified - actually won). We had 9 in Open C. In both cases there was $10 per shooter in class for awards. Wow! *Bow Novice as per payback schedule got $46.66. Open C as per pyaback schedule got $60.00.* So the *winners were moved out because they won. Moved up at State and the person is moved up at the National level.
*Bow Novice required move up was rescinded.

Now read the rule for Bow Novice at the national level;

"Bow Novice – Release, fixed pins, no magnification. 30 yards, 280 FPS
*This class is reserved for participants who shoot in the novice pins class at the state level, or that won less than $300.00 in prize money in this class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition*. At any point during the season that a competitor in this class earns more than $300.00 they are required to compete in their choice of Open C, Hunter, or other higher class for the remainder of the season."

So the above altogether is about as unfair as you can get. How is it not? Shoot in Bow Novice at the national level and stay under $300 for the year and that person can stay in Bow Novice...forever, I guess. Let one State Bow Novice or Open C shooter pull out a win in a State Championship (like above - $46.66 and $60.00 ) and he or she is required to move up in class.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> And there's one of the problems that people look at. Texas has some pretty big ASA Qualifiers and a big State Championship compared to other States. In 2010 we had 7 in Bow Novice (8th disqualified - actually won). We had 9 in Open C. In both cases there was $10 per shooter in class for awards. Wow! *Bow Novice as per payback schedule got $46.66. Open C as per pyaback schedule got $60.00.* So the *winners were moved out because they won. Moved up at State and the person is moved up at the National level.
> *Bow Novice required move up was rescinded.
> 
> Now read the rule for Bow Novice at the national level;
> ...



I see your point. Texas is probably the exception to the rule with the number of qualified shooters in the state. Might have to look at another way to make the move up fair in small field states. I was thinking maybe combined scoring average of the qualifiers and state shoot per shooter. The only problem that I see with this is that if you are familiar with your competition you could shoot " down " from your ability and still qualify.


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