# NFAA 5 Spot question



## txarcheryguy (Aug 19, 2007)

Just starting to shoot 5 spots. Been practicing for a couple weeks and feel real confident I can take a solid last place down here in Texas in Mens Free Style but gonna shoot 'em anyways. Its fun when its not fustrating!

Anyways my score goes way up (from like 288 to 289, lol) if I take a lot of time while shooting.

Anyways, how much time can you take shooting a round or arrow in official competition.

Just practicing and taking it easy at the local Gander indoor range we might spend 1.5 hours shooting all 12 rounds.


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

In NFAA (TFAA) Indoor competition, you have 4 minutes from the time you get the green light until the last arrow must fly. In that time, you must have shot all 5 arrows. It's really alot of time...time yourself and see. Good luck, see you on the circuit.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

> Anyways my score goes way up (from like 288 to 289, lol) if I take a lot of time while shooting.


Hey - you should invite me to your league and you won't be last anymore!! Like I tell my fellow shooters - *someone* has to come in last. Plus, the more of us also-rans, the more places for the big guns.

Seriously, though, the 4 minute time is pretty generous.


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## GATOR-EYE (Jun 30, 2006)

This is one of the hardest things for me to do..slow down and use my time. 

If I take a breather between shot there is a big difference in score at the end of the round.


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## txarcheryguy (Aug 19, 2007)

Yep, well firing the 5 arrows off in 4 minutes shouldn't be a problems but how slow is it between rounds? Do you 5 minutes between the time you go to pull arrows before you have to start shooting again?

Also does anyone have any problem with one target or the other. For me, I shoot poorer on the upper targets than I do the lower one. Do you think this is an anchoring issue with a higher shot?


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

I think everbody has a different spot they have trouble with and for me it changes from day to day. What order due you shoot them? I shoot the lower 3 first and the upper 2 last. This is because at our range the lighting if I shoot the upper target first creates shadows on the lower targets.


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## txarcheryguy (Aug 19, 2007)

I think another one of my big problems is letting down. I draw sometimes, can tell I am not anchored right, keep trying to find the anchor point and then shoot anyways. Other times I draw back, something just ins't right, I am more bouncy on the target and then punch when I think I've got it crossing the "X".

I guess all this is inexperience and only form practice and release practice will tkae it away.

I shot last night and had a 296 but only 38 "X". For right now my goals are hitting all "5" and getting a 300 and hopefully the "X's" will come with more, and more work.

I love doing it but I get infuriated when I hit a 4 and then I end up hitting another one or two 4's before I can get over being mad at myself.

I should complain. Two weeks ago when I switched to a strapless release and started shooting 5 spots, I hardly ever hit the "Blue"


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## txarcheryguy (Aug 19, 2007)

umm, I shoot in this order: UL, UR, M, LR, LL but that sin't my problem. My problem is I shoot the first round at a target that is lower to the ground and the next round is at a target higher up. Its when I go to the higher up target I have troubles with the hole thing.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Just something that helped me. Set a goal for an X count say 50 X's. Then shoot for X's and ignore the score. If you change your focus from hitting the white to hitting the X you won't miss the White.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

Good advice, Swerve. 

One other seldom-mentioned thing: If you're really having problems with one of the spots one day (during a competition), there's nothing in the by-laws preventing you from shooting two arrows at another spot and just don't shoot at that one. Can't say as I've done that, yet - but just an idea.


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## txarcheryguy (Aug 19, 2007)

Good advice guys, thanks.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

One other thing that helped my 5 spot shooting. Practice on a Vegas face, the little X really sharpens your focus and will improve your scores on 5 spot.


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

txarcheryguy said:


> Yep, well firing the 5 arrows off in 4 minutes shouldn't be a problems but how slow is it between rounds? Do you 5 minutes between the time you go to pull arrows before you have to start shooting again?
> QUOTE]
> 
> Don't think anyone answered you on this part. I don't believe there is a time limit on the entire 12 end shoot. Nor between ends. As they said, you have 4 minutes to shoot 5 arrows. When everyone on the shooting line has finished, they'll turn on the red light. Then everyone walks down to score the targets. Once all scoring is done, you walk back to the line and when the range master determines everyone is ready, you'll get the green light for the next end.
> ...


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

rudeman said:


> Good advice, Swerve.
> 
> One other seldom-mentioned thing: If you're really having problems with one of the spots one day (during a competition), there's nothing in the by-laws preventing you from shooting two arrows at another spot and just don't shoot at that one. Can't say as I've done that, yet - but just an idea.


Rudeman,

I'm not contradicting you. You probably are more up on the by-laws than I am. But are you sure that if you had 5 arrows in 4 target spots that you wouldn't receive a 0 on the one with no arrow and the lower of the two scores for the spot with two arrows?

I'm pretty sure this is the way the NFAA runs their 3 spot shoots (i.e. Vegas). I'd be surprised if the 5 spot rules were different.

Heck, you could pull a bad shot off and hit a different target and still score the bad shot? That doesn't seem right.

And TXArcheryGuy, in NFAA indoor shoots (5 spot) you are allowed to shoot at a larger single face target. The White Area is still the same size and will score 5. Then I believe the blue area has a 4, 3, 2 and 1 scoring rings. Whether you shoot a 5 spot or that target is your choice.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Actually on the NFAA 5 spot face according to the rules you can put all five arrows into a spot for score if you choose.

On a 3 spot Vegas face 1 arrow per spot for score.


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## txarcheryguy (Aug 19, 2007)

swerve said:


> Just something that helped me. Set a goal for an X count say 50 X's. Then shoot for X's and ignore the score. If you change your focus from hitting the white to hitting the X you won't miss the White.


Yes I hink this is key and mistake on my part. I take the shot if I feel I can hit the "5" instead of letting down. If I an rearrange my thinking to let down and restart on anything less than an "X" it will probably help.

Something that seems so easy as letting down for me for some reason is so hard. I think I believe I can straighten out the shot and/or pull it off with no suprise shot are being steady.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

To be honest, at most shoots I elect to shoot the single, large 5-point spot rather than the 5-spot (though I occasionally shoot the 5-er). My club's top shooter happened to be practicing one day when I was and offered the advice. Basically, he said to stay with the single spot until I get to the point where I'm busting arrows Quite honestly, IMO there's nothing that can get me as pumped up as walking up to a 5X on a single spot. The five arrows grouped together in a single 1-inch group just looks impressive. (Just wish it would happen more often:wink

Anyhow, just a thought if you're relatively new to this (as am I).


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

swerve said:


> Actually on the NFAA 5 spot face according to the rules you can put all five arrows into a spot for score if you choose.
> 
> On a 3 spot Vegas face 1 arrow per spot for score.


But you would have to let the officials or rangemaster you were going to do that wouldn't you?


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

No. You can literally shoot an arrow in each spot on one end, then all the arrows in one spot on the next and mix them up in between. Here's the rule:


5.10 When using the NFAA Indoor Four or Five Spot Target:
5.10.1 An archer may shoot any of the 4 spot or 5 spot targets in any order and shoot as many arrows into any spot as the archer desires, not to exceed the prescribed number of arrows per end.​


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## Dadpays (Oct 11, 2006)

*Multiple arrows at one spot*

At Nationals this year my son would not shoot the top right spot on the 5 spot face. It really messed with some people and some of the parents were questioning the judges, etc. So yes, you can shoot any combination of arrows and spots.


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## TX Bowhunter (Dec 13, 2004)

swerve said:


> Just something that helped me. Set a goal for an X count say 50 X's. Then shoot for X's and ignore the score. If you change your focus from hitting the white to hitting the X you won't miss the White.


Great advice.....You will hit what your eyes are looking at in my experience. If all you are seeing is the X and not worrying about the white then you will hit the X provided good form and release are achieved. If you don't see the X and you see white and blue....Let Down.

I know this is easier said than done but the scores will go up. I let down 17 times last night and should have let down probably another 4 to 5, but it is hard headedness that looses you points.

Good Luck and hope to see you around.

Surely you will Be @ the Center shoot @ Wolf right :wink:


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## 3DZapper (Dec 30, 2002)

txarcheryguy said:


> Also does anyone have any problem with one target or the other. For me, I shoot poorer on the upper targets than I do the lower one. Do you think this is an anchoring issue with a higher shot?


Many of us have the same concern. Shooting the top bale puts the body in a slightly unnatural alignment. Some things that might help are to concentrate your practice on the upper bales until it feels natural. You know that the bottom bale is "easy" right?

Another is to lower your draw elbow slightly. This helps eliminate the upward pull on the loop which pulls the sight and arrow down with reference to the fulcrum of the grip as back tension is applied.


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## txarcheryguy (Aug 19, 2007)

*Thanks for the help*

Hey guys, thanks for all the help. I've been working on what all you have mentioned and I think its helping. To be honest I think it will take me a little time to incorporate it all and it seems I remember some of the things one shot and some other things another shot. I will just keep trying to go down my mental checklist until it just becomes natural.

Last night I shot a 296 with only 41 "X"'s and I successfully let down a few times and regrouped. The 4 - 4's I shot, once again I knew they were bad shots before I let 'em go but couldn't get myself to let down. I think I am going to work one evening in the house doing nothing but letting down.

I also get so mad when I hit a 4 because I know its all my doing and I am mad at myself and know as soon as one is shot there is no hope at a 300. Last night I would just set down, go get a drink or something else but I have times in my mind where I just feel like its getting time to hit a 4 and sure enough in the next 4 to 8 arrows, there it is, just like I predicted in my mind. Before I shoot every arrow I try and convince myself "this one is an X" but in all honesty I can't clear my mind of knowing its about time for the 4.

Your suggestions did help. Probably the 2 I got down the best last night was looking past my pin to the "X" and also setting tht concentration on hitting the "X" and not just trying to make sure I hit the "5". I worked on all the other suggestions but those were the only two I felt like I mastered with consistancy last night.

I really do appreciate everyone's help,

Dan


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Maybe somehing that will help with consistency in your shot sequence. Put a check list on the lower limb of your bow. I had one for almost a year. Now I just do it in my head.

1. Stance
2. Grip
3. Anchor
4. Level
5. Safety
6. Aim

If any one thing isn't right, let down.


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## r2t2 (Feb 8, 2003)

The second your mind wanders from aiming, let down. It takes a lot of mental conditioning to do this but your scores will improve. Also you may have to get used to shooting alone on the line as most archers shooting spots shoot quite fast. 

RT


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## Man-n-Pink (Nov 7, 2006)

swerve said:


> Just something that helped me. Set a goal for an X count say 50 X's. Then shoot for X's and ignore the score. If you change your focus from hitting the white to hitting the X you won't miss the White.


Thats exactlly what I did and I ahot my first 300 this year, last week I was on the verge of doing it again and let my arm down BAM 4, But I look at the X on both the 5-spot and the vegas now.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

Dadpays ...

I know this isn't on topic, but I like your Atavar -- little archery guy figurine.

My husband has one like it, must have got it about 35-40 years ago.

Where did yours come from?


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## Stealthman (Mar 16, 2003)

Im thinking about shooting some 300 rounds in AMBHFS class,is it legal to have some weight bolted on the rear stabilizer hole?


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## Dadpays (Oct 11, 2006)

*wa-prez*



wa-prez said:


> Dadpays ...
> 
> I know this isn't on topic, but I like your Atavar -- little archery guy figurine.
> 
> ...



My son got it at an outdoor shoot held by Tejas Bowmen in Corpus Christi, TX. They have someone that does the paint job on them and they look very nice. It is my son's favorite "award". If you ever get to Corpus go to Clyde's Archery - he's got a zillion he has won over the years, all painted different.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Im thinking about shooting some 300 rounds in AMBHFS class,is it legal to have some weight bolted on the rear stabilizer hole?


Yes


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

As has been posted, you get FOUR minutes per END of arrows....not "rounds".

A ROUND is the full 12 ENDS of 5 arrows per END...for 60 scoring shots and a 300 possible ROUND score.

Possible score for an END (5 arrows) is 25.

People should not be calling and END as a "round"....since it isn't correct and is very confusing...especially during tournament time.

So, again, you have four minutes to shoot the 5 arrows in each END of arrows.

There isn't a time limit on 'scoring' the arrows at the target...and NO you do not get any more "rest" between ENDS than getting down to score and pull your arrows....and waiting your turn on the line to shoot your next END of 5 arrows.

BOTTOM target shooters shoot first for the first six ENDS of the "round" while top target shooters shoot last. Then, after completion of the shooting of the first six ENDS or arrows, you change your target face to either upper (if you shot lower first) or lower (if you shot upper first). Those that shot first during the first six ENDS now will shoot LAST for the last six ENDS, and those that shot last during the first six ENDS will shoot first for the last six ENDS.

Then, when all 12 ENDS are scored and pulled, you tally up the scores, count X's (if you are so inclined, or the tournament requires it for tie-breakers). You check for scorecard agreement, sign the scorecards and turn them in.

So, 5 arrows per END ( NOT "round")....12 ENDS per "round" (not game), 50 arrows per total ROUND (not game).

Sorry, but when people call an END a "round"...it is peeving...Imagine if a person really needed two ROUNDS of shots to "loosen" up and be ready to score...that is 120 shots just to get ready to score for 60 shots! Doesn't make sense, does it...not when the CORRECT terminology is used!

field14

field14


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

Let’s see if I can clarify this for the novices out there, especially since I’m a relative novice, myself. It does get confusing. First, my apologies to Field14. I share your frustration with not calling things properly, but I couldn't resist having some fun.

A 300 *round *consists of 12 *ends*, each of which consists of 5 arrows. You have the choice of shooting at a single *round *spot or 5 *round *spots for your *ends*, but your choice *ends *when you start the *round*. You are allowed 4 minutes to shoot your *end *and, since there are usually both top and bottom shooters, an *end *takes a*round* 8 minutes to shoot.

After both top and bottom shooters have shot an *end*, the *end **end*s. You then *round *up the shooters and go to the targets to score them, which takes a*round* 5 minutes an *end*. So, including scoring, an *end *takes a*round* 12-13 minutes.

After 6 *ends*, you switch top and bottom targets. A lot of places also take a coffee break after 6 *ends *for a*round* 10 minutes. The *round *resumes at the *end *of the coffee break.

The *round **ends *at the *end *of the 12th *end*. Shooting 12 *ends *to make up a *round *usually takes a*round* 2 to 2 1/2 hours. The tournament director then *rounds *up the scoresheets and posts the results. At the *end *of tallying the scores, the shooters all gather a*round* to see who won and the tournament or shoot *ends*.

Now, some tournaments consist of multiple *rounds* of 12 *ends*, but I think I’ll *end *this explanation now. 

So you see, it’s not that complicated. The confusion a*round* *ends *and *rounds *should *end *a*round* now.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

That should set everyone "square" about the beginning and the "ends" of a round or rounds...since they all have multiple ENDS. You must understand that each arrow you shoot at a round spot brings you closer to the "end" of the ROUND...or multiple rounds...which means you have few opportunities to MISS and lose points for the "end" you are in...and subsequent ends that are closer to the end of the round.

field14


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## alwayslookin (May 28, 2003)

*???????*



Spotshooter2 said:


> Yes


I thought in BHFS you could only have one stabilizer and no back/side weights.

I hope I am wrong!!!!!


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Alwayslookin, as of June 1, 2007 you can now use back weights in BHFS. I personally don't like the rule but that is what it is now.


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