# Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! >———->



## chugg

What!!?? That is sick! Come on, out with the details!


----------



## 4IDARCHER

Looks intriguing. Heavy and expensive but intriguing for sure. Will be following.


----------



## E. Johnson

Now that looks innovating. With it being Garmin I'm sure it will be well built and a great product. Looking forward to hearing more on this.


----------



## ZSF

In for more details!


----------



## ontarget7

4IDARCHER said:


> Looks intriguing. Heavy and expensive but intriguing for sure. Will be following.


Surprisingly, not that heavy at all. It was my initial thought when I first saw it but was very surprised. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## soldierarcher

bump


----------



## gun278

Would like to hear more. I'll be waiting.


----------



## iceman14

Strange


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/garmin-introduces-xero-groundbreaking-auto-120000052.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rhino8124

I know I could look it up but it seems like it would be illegal in some states, many of which are out west where I think it would be most useful. Why not give hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills possible.


----------



## bowhuntermitch

Out of the box thinking, I like it. There's the first $1000 hunting bow sight!


----------



## E. Johnson

Not too far off in price than I thought it would be. $250-$300 for a high end sight and $300 or so for a mid priced range finder. The $799 price is right in there.


----------



## chugg

Wow the capabilities are endless.


----------



## BucksnBass525

$799 Amazon


----------



## ppkaprince98

ontarget7 said:


> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/garmin-introduces-xero-groundbreaking-auto-120000052.html
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So it projects an LED "pin" in the window according to the range? Then you just put the pin on the target and fire?


----------



## Chalk-4

Lol $799 for version and $999 for the other. Looks cool but I’ll pass. They’ll be on CamoFire in a year for $399


----------



## ontarget7

Rhino8124 said:


> I know I could look it up but it seems like it would be illegal in some states, many of which are out west where I think it would be most useful. Why not give hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills possible.


Colorado as of right now would be illegal. However, I do feel these things will be changing in the coming years. They are starting to realize some of these tools make for a higher recovery of game shot in the field. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nvcnvc

Not legal in California! I guess I saved $800....darn!


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



ppkaprince98 said:


> So it projects an LED "pin" in the window according to the range? Then you just put the pin on the target and fire?


It does so much it’s crazy. 

Yes, I will post some video clips at some point today. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Is that the A1 or A1i


----------



## ontarget7

This would benefit more than just a western hunter. Look at all the wounded animals shot just below tree stands. This sight takes all the guess work on your holdovers. All those under 20 yard shots out of stands are auto calculated for you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ned250

Wow............. Can't wait to see more!


----------



## ShootingABN!

Built in range finder or do you put the yardage in it?


----------



## flinginairos

Watched the video on this and I have to say it looks extremely impressive! Can't wait to see more!


----------



## Capra

Its nice to see a manufactuer thinking outside of the box and producing something that is truly new to archery


----------



## ontarget7

ShootingABN! said:


> Built in range finder or do you put the yardage in it?


Built in rangefinder 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/613654


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## deadquiet

ontarget7 said:


> This would benefit more than just a western hunter. Look at all the wounded animals shot just below tree stands. This sight takes all the guess work on your holdovers. All those under 20 yard shots out of stands are auto calculated for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure it will help with that


----------



## ontarget7

deadquiet said:


> Not sure it will help with that


Who’s diminishing anything 

I as simply answering a post in regards to it being a better sight for the West 

Wow [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HoosierArcher88

Now this is intriguing. Folks can complain about the pricetag all they want but there will be a niche for this. Curious as to the longevity and durability of these sights.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

https://www.morningstar.com/news/bu...o-a-groundbreaking-autoranging-bow-sight.html


----------



## ShootingABN!

I like it. Hopefully the price will go down after a year.

I wonder how the lens and electronics will hold up in weather, like cold?


----------



## ppkaprince98

ontarget7 said:


> It does so much it’s crazy.
> 
> Yes, I will post some video clips at some point today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sweet, Cant wait!


----------



## Rhino8124

I wasn't saying it wouldn't be useful from a tree stand(if it wasn't for tree stand hunting I don't know if there would be such thing as "no man's land") But it would sure suck to have to take it off for your first elk hunt.


----------



## ontarget7

https://youtu.be/1ftWzglwmMM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brokenlittleman

How long after the button is pressed does the led stay illuminated? Curious also how you set it up for sight in. My concerns are thick areas where it may misread the range and I am guess it has some sort of lens the led is projected on to. Glare is my concern for that. Love the concept and the unobstructed pin. Could care less about the cost. If it does what says it will do without the issues I mentioned I would buy one in a heart beat.


----------



## MELLY-MEL

Awesome! Cant wait to see the full review!


----------



## Inn.Outdoorsman




----------



## swampcruiser

Good God, where is archery going? I hope these will be illegal for hunting. 

Pretty cool, but I hate the direction we are headed. Maybe I’m being over sensitive due to my state crushing the buck population allowing these damn crossbows for 2 months out of the year.


----------



## Inn.Outdoorsman

States that disallow electronics on the bow for hunting and archery shoots that disallow range finders and P&Y will not accept kills of animals taken with such a sight may limit sales. Still a novel concept.


----------



## ontarget7

swampcruiser said:


> Good God, where is archery going? I hope these will be illegal for hunting.
> 
> Pretty cool, but I hate the direction we are headed. Maybe I’m being over sensitive due to my state crushing the buck population allowing these damn crossbows for 2 months out of the year.


Personally, if it helps recover game and make clean kills, I’m all for it. 

May not be for everyone but I personally feels it’s amazing what they came up with 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

https://youtu.be/u2xMlcebWrQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

ontarget7 said:


> Personally, if it helps recover game and make clean kills, I’m all for it.
> 
> May not be for everyone but I personally feels it’s amazing what they came up with
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I feel the exact same way.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...hare_tid=5326203&share_fid=16462&share_type=t

Bow mounted rangefinder


----------



## MandK

tag


----------



## Bullhound

ontarget7 said:


> Colorado as of right now would be illegal. However, I do feel these things will be changing in the coming years. They are starting to realize some of these tools make for a higher recovery of game shot in the field.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This would be illegal to hunt big game with here in Idaho as well. I don't speak for other states obviously, but here in Idaho we know from Fish & Game that if they start allowing anything electronic on the bow, we will see our archery only seasons shrink immediately. Bowhunting is looked at as a primitive hunting method and if it is less primitive, they will take away from our seasons, period. I have no problem with that myself and do not believe that more gadgets equal better recovery rates on big game. 

I may have a hard time not buying one just to mess around with though! It really does look like a fun toy!!!


----------



## dugabob

I've been looking for something like this, maybe with a little magnification to help with the sight picture.


----------



## ontarget7

dugabob said:


> I've been looking for something like this, maybe with a little magnification to help with the sight picture.


Have already planted that bug [emoji1360]

I think an option in the future of magnification would be awesome. 
Would love to see even a separate target model in the future 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FL1989

I don't think I've seen that before


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

I think it's a matter of time and these types of technology will be legal in all states. I know some people on here was involved n getting the Leupold legalized in their state. I think one day they will all understand it's for the better. My understanding is a lot of states that it's illegal in don't even fully understand the concept. They just hear electronic and automatically throw it out the door. It took the push directly from hunters in certain states to get certain states to understand the concept and ultimately getting legalized.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Heck..they even got tracking devices in nocks and tracking devices with barbs that embed in the skin. I don't get it. These rangefinder devices should be legal in every state.


----------



## Hoh Down

Illegal here in WA too... It's a shame, because I'd love to use one.


----------



## ontarget7

Won’t be long and I bet they will be legal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Hoh Down said:


> Illegal here in WA too... It's a shame, because I'd love to use one.


Is a hand held legal in your state?


----------



## Shockwave31

Subn for updates. This looks very cutting edge! 

Garmin website says 14.7oz, that's probably the most incredible part of the whole thing.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Like I said in the thread I posted. How can a hand held rangefinder be legal in a state but not the other. Because what I said already. States don't even understand.


----------



## Bullhound

ontarget7 said:


> Won’t be long and I bet they will be legal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you guys want these in your states, great! I know why we have our archery seasons in Idaho. If this type of stuff is allowed, we will lose seasons, period. Again, I very well may buy one because it looks like a kick! But don't try to push these new items as something that all states SHOULD allow for hunting.


----------



## Bullhound

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Like I said in the thread I posted. How can a hand held rangefinder be legal in a state but not the other. Because what I said already. States don't even understand.


They understand way more than you would think.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Bullhound said:


> If you guys want these in your states, great! I know why we have our archery seasons in Idaho. If this type of stuff is allowed, we will lose seasons, period. Again, I very well may buy one because it looks like a kick! But don't try to push these new items as something that all states SHOULD allow for hunting.


You don't feel it should a individuals choice?


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Bullhound... Why do you personally feel you would lose season?


----------



## griffwar

Bullhound said:


> If you guys want these in your states, great! I know why we have our archery seasons in Idaho. If this type of stuff is allowed, we will lose seasons, period. Again, I very well may buy one because it looks like a kick! But don't try to push these new items as something that all states SHOULD allow for hunting.


Yep, Oregon don't allow any electronic stuff on your bow at all, not even a sight light. I feel the same as you the tech coming out is going to shorten archery seasons.


----------



## Bullhound

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> You don't feel it should a individuals choice?


You obviously don't know how differing states set their hunting seasons and regulations up. It has nothing, and I repeat, nothing, to do with an "individuals choice" on what he'd like to use at his pleasure. 

Not trying to be rude or anything, but each state is different. How and why they set up regulations on seasons, weapons, and such are not the same everywhere. We have dealt with our state Fish & Game Department on seasons, rules, and weapons, in an effort to continue with existing seasons we enjoy. We know what will happen here if we get less primitive and we do not want to go there. Best of luck in your home state getting what works for you.


----------



## ShootingABN!

2nd and 3rd axis?


----------



## griffwar

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Bullhound... Why do you personally feel you would lose season?


Because the reason most states allow such a long archery season is on account of the low success rate. When tech comes out that allows for a higher harvest rate there going to shorten are cut some hunt's to make up for the higher harvest.


----------



## ontarget7

ShootingABN! said:


> 2nd and 3rd axis?


Yes
The system walks you right through it and all the adjustments at full draw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

I started to complain about the price, then I walked by my $400 rangefinder next too my $300 sight and all the sudden it seemed more reasonable to get both together 

This is awesome 

It is actually an old idea and design a foreign company had years ago and never got off the ground due to lack of funding 
Garmin must have put some cash into the idea and definitely made some improvements by the looks of it 

This is my dream sight
Not sure I’ll ever own one but I want it


----------



## Outsider

Now!!! When I bought my bow mounted leupold rangefinder....


----------



## ontarget7

griffwar said:


> Because the reason most states allow such a long archery season is on account of the low success rate. When tech comes out that allows for a higher harvest rate there going to shorten are cut some hunt's to make up for the higher harvest.


It’s more do to the population and habitat, since they really don’t have an accurate way to report all the game taken. The can estimate but it’s not even close to real numbers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hoh Down

Yes, we can use range finders, but no electronic devices attached to the bow itself.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Bullhound said:


> You obviously don't know how differing states set their hunting seasons and regulations up. It has nothing, and I repeat, nothing, to do with an "individuals choice" on what he'd like to use at his pleasure.
> 
> Not trying to be rude or anything, but each state is different. How and why they set up regulations on seasons, weapons, and such are not the same everywhere. We have dealt with our state Fish & Game Department on seasons, rules, and weapons, in an effort to continue with existing seasons we enjoy. We know what will happen here if we get less primitive and we do not want to go there. Best of luck in your home state getting what works for you.


Fair enough. I have two Leupold vendetta and don't even use them. Heck I should of sold one to Outsider, but anyway. It hasn't shortened our season.


----------



## ShootingABN!

Thanks for the video. I hit the like button for ya!


----------



## Alex_Holliman

Very cool! I wonder how clear the sight picture will be? Surely there must be an initial setup to input your bow's speed? I wonder how hard it was to range the target in a tense hunting situation? I know sometimes I'm shaking so bad that I can't get my handheld to be still enough to give me an accurate range. Does it use batteries or is it rechargeable?


----------



## bhutso

The vendetta has always been legal in my state 
Assuming this would be too 

All our seasons have done nothing but get longer and allow more and more tags 
Even crossbows haven’t changed anything 

I see it as less a product that when used properly can lead to less wounded animals 

If too many are being killed, we’ll there is a lot of room here to decrease tags allowed anyway


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

I do think they should have went with the red display.


----------



## spike camp

griffwar said:


> Because the reason most states allow such a long archery season is on account of the low success rate. When tech comes out that allows for a higher harvest rate there going to shorten are cut some hunt's to make up for the higher harvest.


I’m not sure this is the case In most states....look at Illinois and allowing crossbows during the entire archery season.
Colorado’s regular archery season is only 4 weeks too, very short.



ontarget7 said:


> It’s more do to the population and habitat, since they really don’t have an accurate way to report all the game taken. The can estimate but it’s not even close to real numbers
> 
> I’d wager the estimated harvest numbers are much closer to accurate than not.
> 
> I think this new sight is awesome, but states like Colorado that fight to keep archery primitive and not allow electronics to be mounted to archery equipment are on the right track imo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Alex_Holliman said:


> Very cool! I wonder how clear the sight picture will be? Surely there must be an initial setup to input your bow's speed? I wonder how hard it was to range the target in a tense hunting situation? I know sometimes I'm shaking so bad that I can't get my handheld to be still enough to give me an accurate range. Does it use batteries or is it rechargeable?


Lithium AAA batteries suppose to = over a year of use 

You sight in at various yardage which in turn will tell the sight your bow speed and it will calibrate the yardage’s inbetween what you sighted in 

And if you can’t hold still enough to get a range at full draw 
Let down 
You don’t need to take that shot anyway


----------



## griffwar

ontarget7 said:


> It’s more do to the population and habitat, since they really don’t have an accurate way to report all the game taken. The can estimate but it’s not even close to real numbers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oregon is mandatory reporting on all game animals, if you don't they ding you 25.00 dollars on your next hunting are fishing license purchase.


----------



## Bobmuley

Couple of points:

I should have patented the ideas I've blurted out to others over the years. (I still wouldn't be rich because most are just too absurd :wink I've always thought this would be the ultimate sight.

On wounding versus recovery: With every technological advance, arrow speed, hunting method, and gadget that comes out...I've not seen any appreciable difference in success rates for kills or wounding. I believe it has more to do with who's behind the bow more than what's on it. 

On seasons: Here in much of the west bowhunters (and muzzleloaders) are seen as "privileged" to have separate seasons because we've accepted a more challenging way to hunt. By accepting that challenge many of the game departments give us longer typical seasons than rifle hunters as well as more preferable times of year. A lot of the state game departments have stated that as the perception of that "challenge" we've taken on gets diminished that we could lose preferable times or season lengths accordingly. In most western states bowhunters are seen as a recreation and NOT a game population management tool. 

I'd love to play around with one of these on a field course (with magnification). 

Shane, you down in Cedar City?


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

griffwar said:


> Oregon is mandatory reporting on all game animals, if you don't they ding you 25.00 dollars on your next hunting are fishing license purchase.


Are you kidding me. A $25 fine basically.
Wow! That should be way stiffer fine etc.
But your state won't allow a rangefinder sight. That's messed up.


----------



## griffwar

spike camp said:


> I’m not sure this is the case In most states....look at Illinois and allowing crossbows during the entire archery season.
> Colorado’s regular archery season is only 4 weeks too, very short.


Most western states have a short month long are less archery season and only one tag per year for big game unless you draw a special hunt. No multiple deer, elk, are antelope and some tags are once in a lifetime.


----------



## ontarget7

Bobmuley said:


> I'd love to play around with one of these on a field course (with magnification).
> 
> Shane, you down in Cedar City?


Yes, sir


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hoyt fo life555

Dang, if they ever allow these in Colorado, I believe I will be $1000.00 poorer.


----------



## griffwar

spike camp said:


> I’m not sure this is the case In most states....look at Illinois and allowing crossbows during the entire archery season.
> Colorado’s regular archery season is only 4 weeks too, very short.


Isn't Illinois almost all private? I mean I'm sure there is some open land but for the most part it's the landowners controlling the harvest? So i'm sure they can afford to have them long seasons with whatever weapon they choose. Not the same out in the west we have plenty of open land and a heck of a lot of archers on it so they limit the season dates and the overall harvest rate by placing restrictions on the weapons we can use and the tech we can use.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

It won't be long and this technology will be smart phone compatible. It's coming.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

It would be sweet to be able to plug in your phone to your sight.


----------



## highwaynorth

griffwar said:


> Oregon is mandatory reporting on all game animals, if you don't they ding you 25.00 dollars on your next hunting are fishing license purchase.


Who is going to know if you killed anything if you don't report it, in order to give you a fine?


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

I can think of so much outside the box.


----------



## Bullhound

ontarget7 said:


> It’s more do to the population and habitat, since they really don’t have an accurate way to report all the game taken. The can estimate but it’s not even close to real numbers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


says you. you really shouldn't act like you know everything about all states Shane. Pushing products is one thing and such. But to put yourself out there like you know wth is going on in our different states is simply not real life.


----------



## Bullhound

spike camp said:


> I’m not sure this is the case In most states....look at Illinois and allowing crossbows during the entire archery season.
> Colorado’s regular archery season is only 4 weeks too, very short.


each state is different. we all know there are states that can't get enough deer killed no matter how hard they try!


----------



## griffwar

highwaynorth said:


> Who is going to know if you killed anything if you don't report it, in order to give you a fine?


All on computer don't report by Dec 31st and it marks you for a 25.00 dollar surprise when you go to buy your new license. Also they do count on you being honest on your harvest which I thing 98% of the hunter's are.


----------



## griffwar

Bullhound said:


> says you. you really shouldn't act like you know everything about all states Shane. Pushing products is one thing and such. But to put yourself out there like you know wth is going on in our different states is simply not real life.


Yep.


----------



## 0nepin

Ordered


----------



## ThunderEagle

Bullhound said:


> If you guys want these in your states, great! I know why we have our archery seasons in Idaho. If this type of stuff is allowed, we will lose seasons, period. Again, I very well may buy one because it looks like a kick! But don't try to push these new items as something that all states SHOULD allow for hunting.


Well, Ohio has bow season from late September to early February and I'm pretty sure this would be legal, not sure why you would lose seasons if this was allowed.


----------



## Bullhound

griffwar said:


> All on computer don't report by Dec 31st and it marks you for a 25.00 dollar surprise when you go to buy your new license. Also they do count on you being honest on your harvest which I thing 98% of the hunter's are.


yep. Idaho is real close to refusing to allow purchase of license and tags if you have not reported information for previous year.


----------



## mtimms

I wonder how sight would hold up in different weather conditions? Light rain, fog...etc?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Bullhound

ThunderEagle said:


> Well, Ohio has bow season from late September to early February and I'm pretty sure this would be legal, not sure why you would lose seasons if this was allowed.


Ohio is entirely different than Idaho in every way. read the previous comments and it is spelled out pretty well.


----------



## stevovee

built in range finder


----------



## sneak1413

It is currently illegal in most states. Any state that does not allow battery operated devices or illuminated pins would cause this to be illegal to use for hunting purposes. Also would be illegal in unmarked yardage competition shoots. Interesting technology and I knew it would only be time before it came to life. Not surprised that the price is more than a lot of bows are.


----------



## stevovee

ShootingABN! said:


> Built in range finder or do you put the yardage in it?


has a built-in rangefinder


----------



## ontarget7

0nepin said:


> Ordered


Your going to dig it. I honestly feel it will improve accuracy for most. It’s crazy how relaxed you are with a total field of few. Also has the built in torque indicator, so after bow is in tune you calibrate it to that said grip at full draw and it will show you if you need any adjustments in awkward situations, gloves on etc. the things that might change grip pressure. 

It’s very accurate at calculating all those short yardage’s that you usually have to estimate hold overs for. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dugabob

Being glass, I wonder about fogging on those damp mornings and low light situations. Maybe it's like a good scope, that seems to pick up some light, or at least brighten the target.


----------



## bambikiller

I want one that is for sure 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

https://youtu.be/7dDcY9pb0IQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iwantbigbucks

This thread is way to funny!garmin comes up with a new innovation to help archers out and this thread is bashed just like always.if this device is going to lesson Your season in your state iam sure it wont be passed end of story.here in wisconsin they would probably make it legal just like crossbows for the whole archery season.why would they do that?simple they want all the deer dead.pretty soon here you will be hunt deer all year long not to mention 3 year old kids are buying hunting licenses!!&#55357;&#56878;


----------



## griffwar

Iwantbigbucks said:


> This thread is way to funny!garmin comes up with a new innovation to help archers out and this thread is bashed just like always.if this device is going to lesson Your season in your state iam sure it wont be passed end of story.here in wisconsin they would probably make it legal just like crossbows for the whole archery season.why would they do that?simple they want all the deer dead.pretty soon here you will be hunt deer all year long not to mention 3 year old kids are buying hunting licenses!!��


Not bashing at all, just pointing out how all state's handle new tech is all, and the said reason why they handle it that way.


----------



## ravensgait

Rhino8124 said:


> I know I could look it up but it seems like it would be illegal in some states, many of which are out west where I think it would be most useful. Why not give hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills possible.





ontarget7 said:


> Personally, if it helps recover game and make clean kills, I’m all for it.
> 
> May not be for everyone but I personally feels it’s amazing what they came up with
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Guys they have that already it is called the scoped rifle , has a lot less drop and shoots way out there and if you can aim will often drop an animal in its tracks !! hey and they have had range finding scopes for some time now lol 


This wont fly in most western states as we don't have huge overpopulation's of big game animals the eastern states have , one of the reasons so many eastern states have crossbows in their seasons. 
You use this sight for hunting and you may as well use a shotgun with slugs or muzzle loader, about the same range limitations . Bowhunting is meant to be a more primitive sport , that means harder more difficult more Challenging, not easier and it is already gotten to easy ......


----------



## Bobmuley

Iwantbigbucks said:


> This thread is way to funny!garmin comes up with a new innovation to help archers out and *this thread is bashed just like always*.


Either I'm not seeing it or you're overly sensitive.

I don't see anyone bashing the thread.
I don't see anyone bashing the product.


----------



## nightvision

Inn.Outdoorsman said:


> States that disallow electronics on the bow for hunting and archery shoots that disallow range finders and P&Y will not accept kills of animals taken with such a sight may limit sales. Still a novel concept.


True but I don’t enter them anyway. The fun for me is hunting and shooting them. Don’t need their little paper to tell me good job.


----------



## Jeremy K

I'm curious as to the set up process . I've heard some people say it wouldn't work for thick areas , who takes a shot with a bow in thick cover?


----------



## nightvision

ontarget7 said:


> Yes
> The system walks you right through it and all the adjustments at full draw
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How would you do anything to the sight of you are at full draw?


----------



## ontarget7

nightvision said:


> How would you do anything to the sight of you are at full draw?


Simply draw the bow and you will be looking at a round reticle and your dot. It will take you through a procedure on the corrections you make until those line up. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bullhound

ontarget7 said:


> Your going to dig it. I honestly feel it will improve accuracy for most. It’s crazy how relaxed you are with a total field of few. *Also has the built in torque indicator, so after bow is in tune you calibrate it to that said grip at full draw and it will show you if you need any adjustments in awkward situations, gloves on etc.* the things that might change grip pressure.
> 
> It’s very accurate at calculating all those short yardage’s that you usually have to estimate hold overs for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now that is really cool!!!


----------



## bhutso

bambikiller said:


> I want one that is for sure
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same


----------



## kdog23

it has been several years since a new item has captured my attention. I must say this one has. I will not be able to afford one any time soon, but will be following the progress. very innovative.


----------



## henro

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*

Can you switch between fixed pin and rangefinder pin modes with the grip mounted button or do you have to hit something on the sight. I would want to be able to do it just with the grip button while at full draw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mastkvn

Very interested


----------



## bambikiller

bhutso said:


> Same


Going to wait on Onepin to let me know if he likes it , we share the same mindset on most hunting related products 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bghunter7311

Jeremy K said:


> I'm curious as to the set up process . I've heard some people say it wouldn't work for thick areas , who takes a shot with a bow in thick cover?


I can always spot the guy who hasn't been very successful


----------



## vonfoust

Too much technology for me. We all have our line in the sand. At some point we might as well take guns.


----------



## bhutso

henro said:


> Can you switch between fixed pin and rangefinder pin modes with the grip mounted button or do you have to hit something on the sight. I would want to be able to do it just with the grip button while at full draw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


According to the videos I watched 
Yes you can switch at full draw


----------



## bhutso

bambikiller said:


> Going to wait on Onepin to let me know if he likes it , we share the same mindset on most hunting related products
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I’m gonna start saving now for when the reviews come out. I expect this to be everything it appears to be


----------



## henro

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



bhutso said:


> According to the videos I watched
> Yes you can switch at full draw


Can you link the video that shows this?

I watched this one and it states tap the trigger button and the fixed pins will come up if setup. It doesn’t say if it will switch between hunt mode and fixed pins this way though. 
https://youtu.be/58yKfQ3Yf04


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## That_TN_Guy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



henro said:


> Can you switch between fixed pin and rangefinder pin modes with the grip mounted button or do you have to hit something on the sight. I would want to be able to do it just with the grip button while at full draw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, no

Not just by the trigger switch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## soldierarcher

Finally we get something besides basically iron sights. Still not quite a true scope, but a heck of a lot better than what's on the market today.


----------



## redman

I like it


----------



## bhutso

henro said:


> Can you link the video that shows this?
> 
> I watched this one and it states tap the trigger button and the fixed pins will come up if setup. It doesn’t say if it will switch between hunt mode and fixed pins this way though.
> https://youtu.be/58yKfQ3Yf04
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That’s the one I watched 

The way I understand it there are 2 modes
Calibration 
And hunt 

Seems to me if you calibrate fixed pins you still use the button to range then hit the button a second time for fixed pins 
You can set the time you want the fixed pins to stay on. 

Again this is only my perspective from watching the video so not totally sure


----------



## henro

bhutso said:


> That’s the one I watched
> 
> The way I understand it there are 2 modes
> Calibration
> And hunt
> 
> Seems to me if you calibrate fixed pins you still use the button to range then hit the button a second time for fixed pins
> You can set the time you want the fixed pins to stay on.
> 
> Again this is only my perspective from watching the video so not totally sure


I don’t think that’s it from watching it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## That_TN_Guy

henro said:


> I don’t think that’s it from watching it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It can be switched from Ranged Pins to Fixed Pins by tapping the trigger.

This is discussed in the Pin Management video beginning 38 seconds.


----------



## ontarget7

henro said:


> I don’t think that’s it from watching it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I apologize 

I seldom ever use the fixed pins since I’ve been testing and just double checked and you do just toggle the trigger to move to fixed pins. You do not have to go to the unit for this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## henro

The $800 answer lol thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

https://youtu.be/1bFWuueSBTk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> I apologize
> 
> I seldom ever use the fixed pins since I’ve been testing and just double checked and you do just toggle the trigger to move to fixed pins. You do not have to go to the unit for this
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So.... like the video said


----------



## highwaynorth

ontarget7 said:


> Your going to dig it. I honestly feel it will improve accuracy for most. It’s crazy how relaxed you are with a total field of few. Also has the built in torque indicator, so after bow is in tune you calibrate it to that said grip at full draw and it will show you if you need any adjustments in awkward situations, gloves on etc. the things that might change grip pressure.
> 
> It’s very accurate at calculating all those short yardage’s that you usually have to estimate hold overs for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The built in torque indicator would be awesome.


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> So.... like the video said


Yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Roamingeast

i got rifle scopes that cost roughly that much. seriously cool piece of kit.


----------



## Jeremy K

bghunter7311 said:


> I can always spot the guy who hasn't been very successful


I've met your type before ,enjoy your ****ty existence.


----------



## ontarget7

Keep in mind all my testing was done without an owners manual. I was extremely surprised as to how user friendly it has been. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dkkarr

Shane, I shoot a single pin like you and love that it’s centered in the scope. 

Has the aim dot not being centered and getting lower and lower in the scope the longer the shot caused you any difficulty ?


----------



## ontarget7

dkkarr said:


> Shane, I shoot a single pin like you and love that it’s centered in the scope.
> 
> Has the aim dot not being centered and getting lower and lower in the scope the longer the shot caused you any difficulty ?


Not all, the sight head doesn’t move so anchor and references stay consistent like a fixed head sight. 

Will post a video later 
If my memory serves me right, I believe it was at 90 yards. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

I will add, I feel it has actually been more accurate with the clear field of view 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bambikiller

ontarget7 said:


> https://youtu.be/1bFWuueSBTk
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How is it In the rain ? Does the lens fog up? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

How many arrows can it be calibrated for? 
if you can calibrate a different arrow then you can mount it on a different bow....just change the arrow setting.....


----------



## ksubigbuck

My buddy also tested this. After seeing it first hand in November I was really impressed. Very innovative and an excellent leap into the archery market for Garmin.


----------



## dkkarr

Thanks for your reply Shane !

After thinking about what you said I can see how the scope being fixed could help with accuracy and being more comfortable. It eliminates the issue with peep and scope head (moving up/down) not being as consistent shooting all distances.


----------



## Bobmuley

Haven't watched all the videos, just yours from presumably this morning...

Angle compensated?


----------



## real

Technology is a helluva thang. This will be a game changer in the archery hunting world for all who can afford it. Wow


----------



## Kris87

I will have one....don't need to see any more....


----------



## Whaack

swampcruiser said:


> Good God, where is archery going? I hope these will be illegal for hunting.
> 
> Pretty cool, but I hate the direction we are headed. Maybe I’m being over sensitive due to my state crushing the buck population allowing these damn crossbows for 2 months out of the year.


I'll agree. The technology is super cool, but this isn't the direction archery (hunting) should be going.


----------



## bambikiller

Whaack said:


> I'll agree. The technology is super cool, but this isn't the direction archery (hunting) should be going.


Matter of opinion , do you shoot a long bow ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brokenlittleman

Whaack said:


> I'll agree. The technology is super cool, but this isn't the direction archery (hunting) should be going.


This is not an archery direction, this is a world direction. Some people can't handle the change and don't want to. I have no problem with people that don't want to change. I have a problem with people who think others shouldn't because of their opinion.


----------



## Outsider

Pardon me if this was mentioned somewhere already. But can I use the rangefinder at full draw? I saw Shane was taking measurement with the bow at rest. I'm going to sell whatever equipment I don't use on my bow and buy this sight.


----------



## E. Johnson

Whaack said:


> I'll agree. The technology is super cool, but this isn't the direction archery (hunting) should be going.


The same thing was said when compound bows, carbon arrows and mechanical heads were invented.


----------



## CHAMPION2

I'm waiting for next years Garmin Xero model with the video camera on it!


----------



## bhutso

Outsider said:


> Pardon me if this was mentioned somewhere already. But can I use the rangefinder at full draw? I saw Shane was taking measurement with the bow at rest. I'm going to sell whatever equipment I don't use on my bow and buy this sight.


Yes 

That’s the main benifit of it in a Hunting situation 
Assuming he hasn’t demonstrated this because he is only using it for targets


----------



## Whaack

brokenlittleman said:


> This is not an archery direction, this is a world direction. Some people can't handle the change and don't want to. I have no problem with people that don't want to change. I have a problem with people who think others shouldn't because of their opinion.


Trust me, I sell and integrate some of the worlds most advanced technologies daily as a career. I'm all for technology, but in a hobby/passion/sport that focuses on NOT doing things the easiest it seems technology like this takes away from the sport. Just my opinion, feel free to consume it as you see if.


----------



## ontarget7

Outsider said:


> Pardon me if this was mentioned somewhere already. But can I use the rangefinder at full draw? I saw Shane was taking measurement with the bow at rest. I'm going to sell whatever equipment I don't use on my bow and buy this sight.


Yes sir

Will post another video here shortly
It’s just taking awhile for these to download 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Shane, about what size is sight dot?


----------



## dnv23

Wow is right, this unit is a game changer no dought. Coolest piece of archery equipment I have seen.
Will I buy one? Probably not. Sure would be fun to play with though.


----------



## rackfreak210

How will this sight work in the rain or in sub zero temperatures, or worse yet in a blind with a heater on in sub zero temperatures?? I just don’t see this working with my style of hunting...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Shane, about what size is sight dot?


I will talk about this in the next video and the benefits for me personally 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

rackfreak210 said:


> How will this sight work in the rain or in sub zero temperatures, or worse yet in a blind with a heater on in sub zero temperatures?? I just don’t see this working with my style of hunting...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure of your conditions but I have had it out in the rain with no issues and -10*. 
I have been told it’s been tested below -20


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

ontarget7 said:


> I will talk about this in the next video and the benefits for me personally
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks


----------



## Shinigami3

Whaack said:


> Trust me, I sell and integrate some of the worlds most advanced technologies daily as a career. I'm all for technology, but in a hobby/passion/sport that focuses on NOT doing things the easiest it seems technology like this takes away from the sport. Just my opinion, feel free to consume it as you see if.


Unless you're shooting a stick bow with a linen string and four-footed cedar arrows, and shooting fingers, you're on thin ice with that argument.

Otherwise your compound bow and carbon arrows are in the same category.

As long as the doohickey doesn't hold the bow at full draw and make the shot for you, it's still archery.

Unlike, say, crossbow.


----------



## bambikiller

Shinigami3 said:


> Unless you're shooting a stick bow with a linen string and four-footed cedar arrows, and shooting fingers, you're on thin ice with that argument.
> 
> Otherwise your compound bow and carbon arrows are in the same category.
> 
> As long as the doohickey doesn't hold the bow at full draw and make the shot for you, it's still archery.
> 
> Unlike, say, crossbow.


Nicely put


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ppkaprince98

Outsider said:


> Pardon me if this was mentioned somewhere already. But can I use the rangefinder at full draw? I saw Shane was taking measurement with the bow at rest. I'm going to sell whatever equipment I don't use on my bow and buy this sight.


I watched the youtube video and it looks to be that way. Hold you bow up for the range and click the button to have the pins appear. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## archer58 in pa

If this is legal in Pa, I'll get one.
I just can't let the wife know how much it is...


----------



## ontarget7

https://youtu.be/vLRMLFGVjlo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Whaack

Shinigami3 said:


> Unless you're shooting a stick bow with a linen string and four-footed cedar arrows, and shooting fingers, you're on thin ice with that argument.
> 
> Otherwise your compound bow and carbon arrows are in the same category.
> 
> As long as the doohickey doesn't hold the bow at full draw and make the shot for you, it's still archery.
> 
> Unlike, say, crossbow.


You're 100% right. I'm not standing on any high horse saying that "I'm better" or that I shoot a long bow. I'm simply stating that archery, by its nature, is meant to be a primitive and close range method of harvest in a hunting scenario. 

There is a spectrum in the hunting world. On one end is a guy with a spear, and on the other end is the new fad of ultra-long range hunting with high powered rifles. Between those two extremes are an infinite amount of variations of how people hunt.

I'm simply saying that this new sight, which is cool, takes us further towards the high powered long range rifle part of the spectrum vs. the guy with a spear part of the spectrum. My thought is that is not the direction that a sport that is about close ranges with "primitive" equipment should be going.

Whether you like long range archery or long range rifle hunting, if you are pushing the limits of gear I would argue your more interested in the challenge of shooting vs. the challenge of getting game close.

That said, I know I will lose this argument with most on AT so carry on.


----------



## trial153

Shinigami3 said:


> Unless you're shooting a stick bow with a linen string and four-footed cedar arrows, and shooting fingers, you're on thin ice with that argument.
> 
> Otherwise your compound bow and carbon arrows are in the same category.
> 
> As long as the doohickey doesn't hold the bow at full draw and make the shot for you, it's still archery.
> 
> Unlike, say, crossbow.


Yep ^^^


----------



## Whaack

Shinigami3 said:


> Unless you're shooting a stick bow with a linen string and four-footed cedar arrows, and shooting fingers, you're on thin ice with that argument.
> 
> Otherwise your compound bow and carbon arrows are in the same category.
> 
> As long as the doohickey doesn't hold the bow at full draw and make the shot for you, it's still archery.
> 
> Unlike, say, crossbow.


And by the way, this isn't necessarily true. Every technology advancement that increases our collective efficacy by default decreases our challenge in taking game.


----------



## meatman

In, until I saw $799. Gagging.....


----------



## highwaynorth

meatman said:


> In, until I saw $799. Gagging.....


If you price a target sight and scope, you are getting into the same price range now a days., and they don't even include a range finder.


----------



## big44a4

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*

Oh man this will make hunting so easy if it’s legalized! Especially big game animals out west...that’s the biggest joke of all. Same as as just use a gun because it makes hunting that easy. Rangefinders with angle comp and moveable sights with printed sight tapes out to 150+ yards already exist. 

Sure this will help SOME people shoot more accurate at farther distances. But it’s not the arrow it’s the Indian. The main thing this does is take the ranging step (as a separate action) out of the equation so you could possibly get a shot off in a shorter window of time. 

Have you ever seen what a pin looks like on a target over 100 yards?? Even a .010 pin nearly covers the whole target, then factor in normal float etc...

With that argument states should ban moveable sights too since computer programs print the tapes and they are ALWAYS 100% accurate to 250 yards. Anyone who has a moveable sight knows the tape is only as accurate as the shooter can verify. I’ve seen many people shoot a wide range of known distances with exact yardage pins and miss the target. 

This is a cool piece of technology but it’s not for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## archerpsu

Cool, great idea, and way over priced. My current hand held ranging device has been more then satisfactory and gets the job done.


----------



## bambikiller

Whaack said:


> And by the way, this isn't necessarily true. Every technology advancement that increases our collective efficacy by default decreases our challenge in taking game.


Elk success rates holding steady at 10 % for archery for 20-30 years ! Just saying 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

I don’t see the price as prohibitive for what it is. We have conventional sights at the 300 to 400 mark already. 
This can replace your sights on two bows and also your range finder. 


I only see two issues with this. First is the legality in some states. Second is the reliability. This places my entire hunt at the mercy of electronics.


----------



## Outsider

Got this response from IDNR


> The sight would be legal to use.
> 
> Brian A. Clark
> 
> Illinois Department of Natural Resources
> 
> Office of Law Enforcement
> 
> Office (217)785-5740
> 
> Fax (217)785-8405


----------



## trucker3573

Super cool but the day I spend 800 dollars on an archery sight is the day I jump off a cliff lmao. This is archery folks, not long range rifle accuracy. You are out of your mind if you buy this... Sorry.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## rackfreak210

ontarget7 said:


> Not sure of your conditions but I have had it out in the rain with no issues and -10*.
> I have been told it’s been tested below -20
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is good to know. I would just be worried about seeing through the lense in the rain or in a blind when the rest of my optics would normally be fogging up. I absolutely love the engineering and functionality of the sight. What type of battery and battery life can you expect out of it? In for more field testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

This a total game changing product. Worth way more then in functionality and accuracy then any new bow. Almost takes speed out of the equation for bow choice.


----------



## henro

If you remove the batteries or they die will the settings be saved still?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bullhound

Whaack said:


> You're 100% right. I'm not standing on any high horse saying that "I'm better" or that I shoot a long bow. I'm simply stating that archery, by its nature, is meant to be a primitive and close range method of harvest in a hunting scenario.
> 
> There is a spectrum in the hunting world. On one end is a guy with a spear, and on the other end is the new fad of ultra-long range hunting with high powered rifles. Between those two extremes are an infinite amount of variations of how people hunt.
> 
> I'm simply saying that this new sight, which is cool, takes us further towards the high powered long range rifle part of the spectrum vs. the guy with a spear part of the spectrum. My thought is that is not the direction that a sport that is about close ranges with "primitive" equipment should be going.
> 
> Whether you like long range archery or long range rifle hunting, if you are pushing the limits of gear I would argue your more interested in the challenge of shooting vs. the challenge of getting game close.
> 
> That said, I know I will lose this argument with most on AT so carry on.


Well said. We have our current bowhunting seasons here because we agreed to stay away from anything electronic on our bow or arrows, period. That is our "line in the sand" so to speak, that let's us continue with our bowhunting as we have it. 

You guys that live in areas with different circumstances, like living in a state that NEEDS to kill as many deer as possible, well, hope these types of things work out well for you. Pretty cool deal for sure.


----------



## trial153

henro said:


> If you remove the batteries or they die will the settings be saved still?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great question. Also would be nice if there was a fail safe...like an overlay with sight dots.


----------



## ravensgait

Guys you keep wanting easier this makes it just that much easier, when does it become to easy ? You have to hold and aim a Crossbow rifle , shotgun etc and wow most of you pull a trigger to shoot your bows, add 80+% letoff and you can hold forever now a range finding site ! Now how much more difficult is this to shoot than a shotgun with slugs or a crossbow ? Not much at all. And before some yahoo uses the lame arse stick bow argument I've shot all 3 since the 70s . If they outlawed wheel bow most of you would find something else to do.....


----------



## bowhuntermitch

highwaynorth said:


> If you price a target sight and scope, you are getting into the same price range now a days., and they don't even include a range finder.


This will be their sales pitch. You're getting a high quality sight ($250-300) and a good rangefinder ($300-$600) in one package. 

If it's sold this way, you'll be surprised on how many guys will buy them that were also in the market for a rangefinder.


----------



## MossyMan

If I bought that my wife would make me come live with one of you guys. I do like it though..


----------



## spike camp

I’m trying not to like this sight, but it’s not working.
Nice videos,Shane.


----------



## griffwar

bambikiller said:


> Elk success rates holding steady at 10 % for archery for 20-30 years ! Just saying
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep 20 are 30 years ago there where a lot less archery hunter's, so they sold less tag's! Do you see where I'm going with this?


----------



## RidgeNinja91

No thanks.


----------



## adamantine

Looks awesome Shane! Thanks for sharing. They seem to have nailed it, definitely a few features that could be added later on, but they hit 90% of use cases for sure. Even if you're not a fan, great to see a big company diving into the Archery market.

That said, one thing to be aware of--I've used Garmin GPS watches for triathlon for years and they software reliability is... suspect. It's a known safety precaution to not download any updates on your watch at least 1 month before a race. This is likely a totally separate team but that would be enough for me to wait a year (not to mention I mainly hunt elk in areas it's illegal).

As for the resistance to change-- Yesterday I had guys on this forum telling me they were skeptical of a carbon fiber riser's reliability. Great to know that the material that's highly stressed in the limbs on their current bow is unreliable  

I don't see this as a magical laser beam--it would definitely help eliminate near misses/wounding due to yardage mis-estimation within someone's current range. You still have to shoot well even if the dot is on an animal, just like a current sight. Only thing that could be a bummer is that guys might be tempted to take slightly longer shots since they know that at least the aim point is on... but the same could be said of my MBG with a 100 yard sight tape. (and shooting after hours with lighted reticle)

That said, you do have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere with technology--because electronic automated gyroscopic stabilizers, electronically timed release aids, and hydrodynamic torque eliminating grips will be here one day. IMO, The goal of our sport is to introduce a large degree of human skill into the ethical taking of an an animal, which is what makes it so rewarding. I think this falls within the line, since we already use laser range finders


----------



## bhutso

Outsider said:


> Got this response from IDNR


If you look up the Leupold vendetta they have a map of everywhere their bow mounted rangefinder is legal 
No reason to believe this would be any different unless states apply specific rules to outlaw it. 

I’m surprised by how many states wont allow this sort of thing 
But legal in my state (Missouri)

I guess this thing will only help elk hunters in Arizona?


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



spike camp said:


> I’m trying not to like this sight, but it’s not working.
> Nice videos,Shane.


I have to admit I was a little skeptical at first myself when I got the call. 

It really is an awesome sight in so many ways, bro. 

1)The ability to have the rangefinder incorporated into the whole shot process.

2) The ability to customize the pin brightness, thus the size in different situations has been stellar

3) The torque reading ability I recommend doing after you have tuned the bow to your liking. This makes for very repeatable accuracy with broadheads in a variety of shooting situations. 

4) single pin capability but better with a complete wide open field of view and the ability to toggle to fixed when the situation calls for it. All at the touch of your finger. 

Then you have the GPS ability I haven’t even tapped into yet. 

They seriously hit a homerun with their first archery sight. 

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fourbarrel

:darkbeer:


----------



## adr1601

I gotta admit I think this thing is really cool, but I think I'll just get a xbow before I use this for hunting. 
Heck I refuse to use trail cams at this point.
I could see things like this being used as ammo by the xbow supporters to get them legal in states they're not.
Gotta admit my first reaction was I want one.
I also believe this would contribute to more wound animals.


----------



## apt2106

What will be great is when someone posts a picture of this sight on their bow that has a whisker biscuit. They opt for the biscuit cause its one less mechanical thing to fail........


----------



## bhutso

Why did the sight start on the evolve and end up on the decree?


----------



## henro

ontarget7 said:


> I have to admit I was a little skeptical at first myself when I got the call.
> 
> It really is an awesome sight in so many ways, bro.
> 
> 1)The ability to have the rangefinder incorporated into the whole shot process.
> 
> 2) The ability to customize the pin brightness, thus the size in different situations has been stellar
> 
> 3) The torque reading ability I recommend doing after you have tuned the bow to your liking. This makes for very repeatable accuracy with broadheads in a variety of shooting situations.
> 
> 4) single pin capability but better with a complete wide open field of view and the ability to toggle to fixed when the situation calls for it. All at the touch of your finger.
> 
> Then you have the GPS ability I haven’t even tapped into yet.
> 
> They seriously hit a homerun with their first archery sight.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are the settings saved if the batteries die or are replaced? What’s the failsafe to store/save them and is there a reset as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eltaco

bhutso said:


> View attachment 6360163
> 
> 
> If you look up the Leupold vendetta they have a map of everywhere their bow mounted rangefinder is legal
> No reason to believe this would be any different unless states apply specific rules to outlaw it.
> 
> I’m surprised by how many states wont allow this sort of thing
> But legal in my state (Missouri)
> 
> I guess this thing will only help elk hunters in Arizona?


That map is extremely outdated and inaccurate. Check your own states regulations for guidance.

Note that the sight doesn’t project light towards the game nor magnify the target.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

henro said:


> Are the settings saved if the batteries die or are replaced? What’s the failsafe to store/save them and is there a reset as well?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I have pulled the batteries out and programming still good when reinstalled. 

There is a factory reset and you can record multiple settings to put it on multiple bows. 

Will have to double check on how many different settings for multiple setups is available 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

eltaco said:


> That map is extremely outdated and inaccurate. Check your own states regulations for guidance.
> 
> Note that the sight doesn’t project light towards the game nor magnify the target.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> Why did the sight start on the evolve and end up on the decree?


Wanted to test it on different bows

Those are the Epix and Xpedite 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## K-Z0NE

This is huge


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 4IDARCHER

I am really liking the features of this sight and may spend the money to test it out, but does anyone really believe it will replace your conventional ranfefinder, or that you should sell your rangefinder to fund this sight?


----------



## ontarget7

I stopped all together using my range finder after the first week testing this sight out. Honestly, I really don’t see a need anymore. You can take readings at full draw or at brace 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Heyer24

Yeah archery is getting out of hand it’s like putting a scope on a muzzleloader with 209 primers, if you want it to be easy hunt with a rifle. If you can’t make a clean ethical shot don’t hunt.


----------



## bhutso

4IDARCHER said:


> I am really liking the features of this sight and may spend the money to test it out, but does anyone really believe it will replace your conventional ranfefinder, or that you should sell your rangefinder to fund this sight?


If I do what I think I might do and sell my target setup to get this and use my hunting bow for everything I don’t think I would use my rangefinder at all


----------



## bhutso

Heyer24 said:


> Yeah archery is getting out of hand it’s like putting a scope on a muzzleloader with 209 primers, if you want it to be easy hunt with a rifle. If you can’t make a clean ethical shot don’t hunt.


It’s about lessening the movement needed to make the ethical shot 

Tons and tons of “rangefinding” sights on the market 
Only difference is this is digital and accurate 

Has nothing to do with your level of shooting 
Just gives you the right pin at the right time with the push of a finger 

No need to be bitter 
I get why people don’t like it, you have the option to not use it 

Doesn’t make anyone else less than you if they choose too use it


----------



## swampcruiser

I can’t wait to get one then, I should be good out to 120 yards on mulies and 150 on elk, hopefully soon This will include a laser designator and guided arrows so all I need to do is send one his way. 
I’m all for a higher recovery rate but no hunting at all yields no lost game. I can’t believe I once cussed the huskimaw guys for killing stuff at over 1000 yards.


----------



## ontarget7

90 yards with the Xero
My group consistency long range has shrank some, I do believe it is due to the fine pin adjustments and the wide open unobstructed field of view 
https://youtu.be/Fcz8F--Kn1Y


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dugabob

in the east, Maine, lots of limbs, leaves, in the path, my range finder needs quite a clear path to get a distance. I believe it's the reflected portion that is being blocked, the lazer out should be almost a pin point.


----------



## henro

ontarget7 said:


> 90 yards with the Xero
> My group consistency long range has shrank some, I do believe it is due to the fine pin adjustments and the wide open unobstructed field of view
> https://youtu.be/Fcz8F--Kn1Y
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any data list that will tell you max distance it can adjust to based on arrow speed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kstatemallards

My buddy Brett used this sight this fall and he loves it. Killed a couple nice bucks with it also. 

I was pretty skeptical of it at first but after messing around with it I’m sold. As soon as my rangefinder craps out I can see myself getting this sight. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

henro said:


> Any data list that will tell you max distance it can adjust to based on arrow speed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven’t seen one yet. What I can say is at 310-320 fps can get you really close to 95-100 yards. This just from personal testing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## henro

ontarget7 said:


> I haven’t seen one yet. What I can say is at 310-320 fps can get you really close to 95-100 yards. This just from personal testing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How about 240-260fps range?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

henro said:


> How about 240-260fps range?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure but I could do some testing 
If not I will see if I can get an idea with others that might have the same speed range


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## henro

ontarget7 said:


> Not sure but I could do some testing
> If not I will see if I can get an idea with others that might have the same speed range
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’d be great for the heavy arrow guys like me to know. Thanks and please let me know what you find out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rhino8124

Couple more questions since your getting already getting swamped...how hard was it to keep this quiet? Second more serious could you see ditching the peep sight, or feel it's still necessary.


----------



## Heyer24

I’m not bitter and it’s a cool concept, but it won’t be legal where I live. But I’m not gonna sit here and say I wished it was either.


----------



## BARBWIRE

I like it. They are missing out on a but load of sales if they dont build something like this for a crossbow.


----------



## MELLY-MEL

BARBWIRE said:


> I like it. They are missing out on a but load of sales if they dont build something like this for a crossbow.


I was thinking the same thing &#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57339;


----------



## bhutso

There is already a rifle scope that does this 
Could be patent issues with a crossbow version


----------



## Omega

ontarget7 said:


> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/garmin-introduces-xero-groundbreaking-auto-120000052.html
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Extracted from the article linked above....

"The Xero operates up to a year on two AAA lithium batteries and comes in both right and left-handed configurations. Ruggedized and water rated to IPX72, the Xero can withstand the rigors of bowhunting. The Xero A1 has a *minimum retail price of $799.99*, and the *A1i has a minimum retail price of $999.99.* Both models are available in the first quarter of 2018. For more information, visit garmin.com/xero."

It would be great to have one, but I can't justify spending that kind of money on it.


----------



## Shinigami3

trial153 said:


> I don’t see the price as prohibitive for what it is. We have conventional sights at the 300 to 400 mark already.
> This can replace your sights on two bows and also your range finder.
> 
> 
> I only see two issues with this. First is the legality in some states. Second is the reliability. *This places my entire hunt at the mercy of electronics*.


Yup, fair point. But then again, so does your car battery. And, how about the 15 cent plastic nock between your string and your arrow? Or the loop on your bottom cam buss that maybe is frayed under the serving. 

My only point is, our entire hunt depends on the weakest link in the chain. I bet this sight is the least of our reliability worries, when you consider the company behind it.


----------



## digsafe

When it comes to rifles, most spend more on glass than the rifle.
I enjoy sighting in and tinkering with conventional sights. The thought that you can take this zero sight and install it on multiple bows seems neet but really boring!


----------



## highwaynorth

4IDARCHER said:


> I am really liking the features of this sight and may spend the money to test it out, but does anyone really believe it will replace your conventional ranfefinder, or that you should sell your rangefinder to fund this sight?


It could replace a range finder for archery but I use mine for gun hunting too


----------



## chad8

Can’t wait to give One a try ! Heavy price tag but I feel like it will be worth it !


----------



## highwaynorth

Since it hasn’t been asked, how does this compare to the EZV?


----------



## bhutso

Lucky for the EZV that design seems plenty accurate enough for a lot of folks and has an extremely lower price point 
If this thing was $3/400 that sight would be hurting 


I feel like anyone who has ever-
Hated the clutter of fixed pins 
Been picked off trying to range an animal 
Set their sight on the wrong yardage 
Shot an animal for the wrong yardage 
Or Been picked off trying to move thier single pin 

Has had this idea, with no clue how to make it a reality


----------



## ontarget7

highwaynorth said:


> Since it hasn’t been asked, how does this compare to the EZV?


Man, that’s not even in the same ballpark to be honest. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie

I totally agree with Shane...this is apple and oranges. Almost like comparing a pair of roller skates to a Segway. Lol

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

Shinigami3 said:


> Yup, fair point. But then again, so does your car battery. And, how about the 15 cent plastic nock between your string and your arrow? Or the loop on your bottom cam buss that maybe is frayed under the serving.
> 
> My only point is, our entire hunt depends on the weakest link in the chain. I bet this sight is the least of our reliability worries, when you consider the company behind it.


For sure. I am cognizant of that. However I also do and use things that historically mitigate that fact. If this unit proves reliable I can see a ton of upside in it.


----------



## tialloydragon

As much as I wanted to keep electronics off my bow because I suck at keeping fresh batteries on hand, this is most likely going to be on my bow in a year or two.

As for those who think this will make things "too" easy, I don't think this is going to change things much. The user still has to sight it in and execute the shot properly. So there's plenty of opportunity for use error, and I can wait to buy one in the classifieds when someone can't figure out how to set it up properly. 

I guess magnification is out, but I don't use a peep anyway, so that doesn't matter.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

I love technology. This is only the beginning of future sights. A little off topic but for tech freaks here you go.
https://youtu.be/yVW57u6XYxI


----------



## jdw2920

Which version do you have the 799 or 999 version? Wish could find somewhere with a coupon I’d preorder me one looks awesome. Garmin stuff is always nice I have ran the Astro series for my hunting dogs for years best stuff out there in that aspect so I’m sure this will be just as good


----------



## bhutso

I just hope they bought these people out for thier idea 

https://youtu.be/m922FPP8v2s

Been looking at this since 2015 
According to bowrangers web page this will also be available in 2018

The Garmin looks much better but this is the exact same concept


----------



## meatman

bhutso said:


> I just hope they bought these people out for thier idea
> 
> https://youtu.be/m922FPP8v2s
> 
> Been looking at this since 2015
> According to bowrangers web page this will also be available in 2018
> 
> The Garmin looks much better but this is the exact same concept


Yeah I thought about them too. Game over bowranger. Time to compete on price. Free markets!


----------



## bhutso

meatman said:


> Yeah I thought about them too. Game over bowranger. Time to compete on price. Free markets!


I want to say they were in the $500 range. They offer preorder on the website but no price 
Having said that $500 for a bow ranger or $800 for a Garmin I’m going Garmin


----------



## frog gigger

bhutso said:


> I just hope they bought these people out for thier idea
> 
> https://youtu.be/m922FPP8v2s
> 
> Been looking at this since 2015
> According to bowrangers web page this will also be available in 2018
> 
> The Garmin looks much better but this is the exact same concept


I watched the video. The most ethical thing I saw to help recover game would be, get your finger within 2'' before punching it.


----------



## Shinigami3

bhutso said:


> I just hope they bought these people out for thier idea
> 
> https://youtu.be/m922FPP8v2s
> 
> Been looking at this since 2015
> According to bowrangers web page this will also be available in 2018
> 
> The Garmin looks much better but this is the exact same concept


I guess none of you remember the auto ranging sight that came out in the mid 90s. LCD window that set the aim point based on the distance. Range automatically measured with a Polaroid ultrasonic module. Same type as was used for measuring tape for a few years back then.

Nothing new here idea wise, just much better technology.


----------



## joffutt1

highwaynorth said:


> Since it hasn’t been asked, how does this compare to the EZV?


There's a reason nobody asked. lol


----------



## Chase1024

This sight is an absolute game changer. If you are the kind of person that buys a new bow every year just because it is the latest thing, all you have to do is skip 1 year and put that money towards the sight and keep it for years. The other to look at it is, deer have so many advantages that work in their favor so if 1 thing like this can help try and even those odds it is worth it. If it made the difference in not being seen while ranging a boomer and having him run off or making an accurate shot because there is no guessing it, then that would make it worth every penny. Just my 2 cents, but hey I'm just a simple guy from Arkansas. Lol 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Shinigami3 said:


> I guess none of you remember the auto ranging sight that came out in the mid 90s. LCD window that set the aim point based on the distance. Range automatically measured with a Polaroid ultrasonic module. Same type as was used for measuring tape for a few years back then.
> 
> Nothing new here idea wise, just much better technology.


Yeah I get that 

But this design and function is identical 
It has pretty much all the same features 

Garmin improved the sight picture, added more axis adjustment, and appears more user friendly 
But much more similarities than differences here


----------



## bhutso

frog gigger said:


> I watched the video. The most ethical thing I saw to help recover game would be, get your finger within 2'' before punching it.


Lol truth


----------



## bcowette

Wonder how this performs in low light. You're now getting into the problem of having a lense that reflects some light like a riflescope. Doesnt look like there are any coatings on it. Also have to worry about it fogging up, getting rain, dirt, etc on the lense.

How do you set the button up so it can be pressed without messing up your grip/form? Does the cord create a bunch of vibration?

Cost wise its not that bad considering it replaces your sight, sight light, and range finder.


----------



## ruffme

Ha, they beat me to it! LOL.
I hooked up a LIDAR to an arduino and then lite different LEDS with fiber optics to the sight pins for the different distances.

My "cheap" LIDAR was only good out to 40 meters but it worked. Just wasn't very practical to get small enough to hang on a bow.
It was a fun project though!
LIDAR is pretty cool technology.


----------



## CHAMPION2

It could be a game changer if legal to hunt with in your state. Here in ND with our old archaic laws you can’t have any type of ranging device as a extension of your bow. No lighted sight pins either, and up until a few years ago nor even lighted nocks.





Chase1024 said:


> This sight is an absolute game changer. If you are the kind of person that buys a new bow every year just because it is the latest thing, all you have to do is skip 1 year and put that money towards the sight and keep it for years. The other to look at it is, deer have so many advantages that work in their favor so if 1 thing like this can help try and even those odds it is worth it. If it made the difference in not being seen while ranging a boomer and having him run off or making an accurate shot because there is no guessing it, then that would make it worth every penny. Just my 2 cents, but hey I'm just a simple guy from Arkansas. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

bcowette said:


> Wonder how this performs in low light. You're now getting into the problem of having a lense that reflects some light like a riflescope. Doesnt look like there are any coatings on it. Also have to worry about it fogging up, getting rain, dirt, etc on the lense.
> 
> How do you set the button up so it can be pressed without messing up your grip/form? Does the cord create a bunch of vibration?
> 
> Cost wise its not that bad considering it replaces your sight, sight light, and range finder.


Dang I forgot about my $130 lp light 

$300 sight $400 rangefinder and a $130 lp. Now even the $1000 model sounds good


----------



## cbowie

CHAMPION2 said:


> It could be a game changer if legal to hunt with in your state. Here in ND with our old archaic laws you can’t have any type of ranging device as a extension of your bow. No lighted sight pins either, and up until a few years ago nor even lighted nocks.


Everything changes...so petition to make a change!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Ingo

I don't think this will be Arizona legal since we can't use lighted pins. I think the lighted pin restrictions are good because a lot of guys will take shots when it's totally dark already. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

whats the difference between two models?


----------



## josephcsylvia

All fun and games until your battery craps out while you draw on the buck of a lifetime! May as well throw your bow at him lol
I know it says a year but when do you ever get what a manufacturer says? What if you get a faulty battery?

Most rangefinders struggle if not just dont work at all in the rain, fog or heavy snow. 
What if your rangefinder picks up a twig you can't see through the sight? Your going to get a false reading.


----------



## ontarget7

bcowette said:


> Wonder how this performs in low light. You're now getting into the problem of having a lense that reflects some light like a riflescope. Doesnt look like there are any coatings on it. Also have to worry about it fogging up, getting rain, dirt, etc on the lense.
> 
> How do you set the button up so it can be pressed without messing up your grip/form? Does the cord create a bunch of vibration?
> 
> Cost wise its not that bad considering it replaces your sight, sight light, and range finder.


I have had it in the rain and -10* temps with no issues. 
The unit is supplied with tape. Whatever it is, it sure holds up well. Any remain cord length I just wrap around the sight bar with no issues on vibe. 

Easy to conform to your grip. I have tried it in a couple location on the front part of the grip. One being activated by my index finger and the other my middle. Could really shoot it either way and for me personally have no issues with bareshafts results when checking tune. 




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheKingofKings

I like it.


----------



## ruffme

I don't think this one every made it to mass production.

http://www.precisionarrowplacement.com/products.html


----------



## CHAMPION2

I believe it’s been brought to the table on numerous occasions but doesn’t hurt to keep trying. We are a very conservative State with old school laws. 





cbowie said:


> Everything changes...so petition to make a change!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie

josephcsylvia said:


> All fun and games until your battery craps out while you draw on the buck of a lifetime! May as well throw your bow at him lol
> I know it says a year but when do you ever get what a manufacturer says? What if you get a faulty battery?
> 
> Most rangefinders struggle if not just dont work at all in the rain, fog or heavy snow.
> What if your rangefinder picks up a twig you can't see through the sight? Your going to get a false reading.


"If" my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle...lol. Sorry...I'm not picking on you.

Just carry a couple of reliable triple A lithiums and be sure you're familiar with it...everything else will take care of itself. This is a solution, I've been looking for and there's an above average chance, I'll own one before next season. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

redruff said:


> I don't think this one every made it to mass production.
> 
> http://www.precisionarrowplacement.com/products.html


I didn’t think so either 

Except the page you shared is accepting pre orders and says they will be available first quarter in 2018
If you cliick on “updates”

http://www.precisionarrowplacement.com/order.html


----------



## little buddy

I didn't read all the posts in this thread so sorry if this has been mentioned already. I big advantage to a sight like this that the dot moves and the sight itself doesn't is the ability to have a rock solid and consistent anchor. You 300 fps guys may not notice it like some of us shooting in the 260dps range. I like it!!


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Ingo said:


> I don't think this will be Arizona legal since we can't use lighted pins. I think the lighted pin restrictions are good because a lot of guys will take shots when it's totally dark already.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


It is Arizona legal


----------



## Ingo

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> It is Arizona legal


Says?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## rcr7mm

Shane,
it is probably mentioned and I missed it but if the batteries do die out this unit does retain all your settings? By the way thanks for the awesome videos really neat product.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Ingo said:


> Says?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Hold on


----------



## hoyt fo life555

josephcsylvia said:


> All fun and games until your battery craps out while you draw on the buck of a lifetime! May as well throw your bow at him lol
> I know it says a year but when do you ever get what a manufacturer says? What if you get a faulty battery?
> 
> Most rangefinders struggle if not just dont work at all in the rain, fog or heavy snow.
> What if your rangefinder picks up a twig you can't see through the sight? Your going to get a false reading.


Change your batteries right before hunting season, then again during the off season ( 3-d, spots ) changing them twice a year I would think you should be good. Carry spares in your pack, most probably all ready have some in there's, for other things, I know I do. It's just hard for me " hide" that much from the wife, but will eventually get there. And not being able to use one here to hunt with makes the wait not so bad. But I could use this in Texas, so now if I have the sight before they allow us to use it here. I will have to buy a new bow also, a Texas bow, and a Colorado bow. ( and no I won't switch the sights out, each sight stays on one bow)


----------



## josephcsylvia

cbowie said:


> "If" my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle...lol. Sorry...I'm not picking on you.
> 
> Just carry a couple of reliable triple A lithiums and be sure you're familiar with it...everything else will take care of itself. This is a solution, I've been looking for and there's an above average chance, I'll own one before next season.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Lol in this day and age she can be both your uncle and aunt! Bahahaha

The competition shooter in me knows that if something can go wrong it will when you need it haha already too many things to worry about. Takes me 2 seconds to check my estimate with a rangefinder and if that dies practice has gotten me good at ranging my target.
Replacement batteries will only help if you know it died before you need it lol


----------



## highwaynorth

josephcsylvia said:


> All fun and games until your battery craps out while you draw on the buck of a lifetime! May as well throw your bow at him lol
> I know it says a year but when do you ever get what a manufacturer says? What if you get a faulty battery?
> 
> Most rangefinders struggle if not just dont work at all in the rain, fog or heavy snow.
> What if your rangefinder picks up a twig you can't see through the sight? Your going to get a false reading.


Life is full of what ifs. Most aren’t that difficult to deal with.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Ingo said:


> Says?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I think it is. 
http://www.wideopenspaces.com/garmin-xero-bow-sight-works/


----------



## highwaynorth

bcowette said:


> Wonder how this performs in low light. You're now getting into the problem of having a lense that reflects some light like a riflescope. Doesnt look like there are any coatings on it. Also have to worry about it fogging up, getting rain, dirt, etc on the lense.
> 
> How do you set the button up so it can be pressed without messing up your grip/form? Does the cord create a bunch of vibration?
> 
> Cost wise its not that bad considering it replaces your sight, sight light, and range finder.


The glass isn’t going to fog up unless you are breathing on it. I’m sure you will get some glare
From the glass if the sun hits it at the right angle.


----------



## Ingo

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> I think it is.
> http://www.wideopenspaces.com/garmin-xero-bow-sight-works/


I don't know how sight lights could be illegal here but this would be? 

I'd be willing to bet we won't be able to use them. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## HookUp1

Range finders that attach to bows are legal in 27 of 50 states. The only Western state that allows them is Arizona. Exciting product if legal in your state. 

http://bowmountedrangefinder.com/leupold-vendetta-legal-states/


----------



## ontarget7

rcr7mm said:


> Shane,
> it is probably mentioned and I missed it but if the batteries do die out this unit does retain all your settings? By the way thanks for the awesome videos really neat product.


Yes sir 
No problem 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

https://youtu.be/HuMWTObOLQo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## That_TN_Guy

hoyt fo life555 said:


> Change your batteries right before hunting season, then again during the off season ( 3-d, spots ) changing them twice a year I would think you should be good. Carry spares in your pack, most probably all ready have some in there's, for other things, I know I do. It's just hard for me " hide" that much from the wife, but will eventually get there. And not being able to use one here to hunt with makes the wait not so bad. But I could use this in Texas, so now if I have the sight before they allow us to use it here. I will have to buy a new bow also, a Texas bow, and a Colorado bow. ( and no I won't switch the sights out, each sight stays on one bow)


LoL, I like the way you think...


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

So it does have USB capable and compatible with other Garmin products?
Accessories....
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/613654/#box


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

Oh... This is getting interesting.


----------



## MNarrow

trial153 said:


> whats the difference between two models?


You get an additional pin color choice in addition to red........green.


----------



## Ingo

HookUp1 said:


> Range finders that attach to bows are legal in 27 of 50 states. The only Western state that allows them is Arizona. Exciting product if legal in your state.
> 
> http://bowmountedrangefinder.com/leupold-vendetta-legal-states/


The problem for Arizona isn't the rangefinder part, it's the "pin" that is actually a light. I'm pretty sure this will be illegal here unless they change the rules. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## That_TN_Guy

ontarget7 said:


> https://youtu.be/HuMWTObOLQo
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome job on all the videos! What are the specs of the bow you are using it on?


----------



## jewalker7842

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



swampcruiser said:


> Good God, where is archery going? I hope these will be illegal for hunting.
> 
> Pretty cool, but I hate the direction we are headed. Maybe I’m being over sensitive due to my state crushing the buck population allowing these damn crossbows for 2 months out of the year.


Very over sensitive and very insecure and a big baby lol. Method of take has nothing to do with the amount of deer. Stop being a self entitled selfish bowhunter and learn to share the woods.

Now, personally, I think the sight can be useful to some people. Its no different than using a range finder. I think the price tag is a little much, but it will sell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sawtoothscream

Very cool stuff. Not buying one but still would love to try it out.


----------



## Predator

Impressive sight. I will be watching to learn more.


----------



## henro

ontarget7 said:


> Yes sir
> No problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you find out how long the settings are stored for if the batteries die? Like say I take the sight off and try something else for a year and then come back to it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jewalker7842

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



henro said:


> Can you find out how long the settings are stored for if the batteries die? Like say I take the sight off and try something else for a year and then come back to it...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


More than likely have a small internal battery. Similar to how computers retain info from the BIOS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## roosiebull

Rhino8124 said:


> I know I could look it up but it seems like it would be illegal in some states, many of which are out west where I think it would be most useful. Why not give hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills possible.


rifles would be allowed in archery season:wink: i'm glad we have gear restrictions, make it any easier to kill stuff with a bow and our seasons will be very short, and likely not hunting every year. the sight is cool, but i'm all for restricting it. archery is supposed to be more difficult, with todays technology, it's getting too easy to call it "archery hunting"

give the hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills is an excuse to want it to be easier, like I said, include rifles during archery season, that will give the hunters the tools to make the most ethical kill shot....... or restrict some technology and keep it archery hunting....


----------



## OCHO505

roosiebull said:


> rifles would be allowed in archery season:wink: i'm glad we have gear restrictions, make it any easier to kill stuff with a bow and our seasons will be very short, and likely not hunting every year. the sight is cool, but i'm all for restricting it. archery is supposed to be more difficult, with todays technology, it's getting too easy to call it "archery hunting"
> 
> give the hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills is an excuse to want it to be easier, like I said, include rifles during archery season, that will give the hunters the tools to make the most ethical kill shot....... or restrict some technology and keep it archery hunting....


Brother hate to break it to you majority of most archers don’t even shoot or know their equipment enough to bow hunt. I help in a shop and see it all the time!! The sights aren’t the problem it’s using the bows they are attached to more. 

No matter what someone uses make sure you know how to use it in your sleep and subconsciously.


----------



## bambikiller

roosiebull said:


> rifles would be allowed in archery season:wink: i'm glad we have gear restrictions, make it any easier to kill stuff with a bow and our seasons will be very short, and likely not hunting every year. the sight is cool, but i'm all for restricting it. archery is supposed to be more difficult, with todays technology, it's getting too easy to call it "archery hunting"
> 
> give the hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills is an excuse to want it to be easier, like I said, include rifles during archery season, that will give the hunters the tools to make the most ethical kill shot....... or restrict some technology and keep it archery hunting....


Wow,really?usually I like your posts . This one seems uninformed . I mean if your shooting a long bow and homemade cedar arrows ok I get your perspective otherwise your just a hypocrite 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## roosiebull

bambikiller said:


> Wow,really?usually I like your posts . This one seems uninformed . I mean if your shooting a long bow and homemade cedar arrows ok I get your perspective otherwise your just a hypocrite
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 it's just a feeling of "where does it stop?" 

technology is going to cost us OTC tags, I would rather take a step back from technology and keep hunting every year. 

i agree i could have chosen better wording above, i just don't like the excuse "it will make archery hunting more ethical" call it what it is, a way to make it a little easier. it takes an aspect of difficulty away, it's undeniable. as it is, we have to lift our range finder, put it back down, draw our bow and hope we didn't miss the little window we had... or you have to guess range and take the shot. these are both skill sets, accurately guessing range, or using the range finder at the right time so it does not cost you.... it's like drawing your bow, it takes some strategy and timing, or you get busted. 

all of the little details make archery hunting tough, keep cutting out the details and it gets easier.... to an extent. crossbows you don't have to draw with game in front of you, but you do have to lug that cumbersome thing around.

i will even agree with the "uninformed" statement, i realize this sight will not have an impact on game herds, and it won't even be legal here.... for some reason it struck a nerve. 

like i said, i would give up a good deal of the current technology we are allowed in this state to continue to hunt every year.... even if it was trad only, i would like it. 

it's an absolute awesome product, super innovative, and looks user friendly. i would like to mess around with one, and it will not negatively effect me in any way.


----------



## sticknstring007

I personally like this sight and the idea behind it. With that being said, I also respect those who view it as roosiebull does, where such a sight could infringe on the length of their respective season due to laws and regulations being what they are. But, I also disagree that this sight in any way makes shooting the bow easier, or takes away from "bow" hunting in general. One still has to draw, aim, and execute the shot. This sight simply allows you to range the target while holding the bow at full draw or simply holding the bow without it drawn, and eliminates the extra movement and time needed to use a solo range finder. Those are just my opinions. This is not akin to giving a bowhunter a rifle to use during archery season, or even allowing a crossbow to be used during an archery season. Again, I do understand and respect those who see this to be detrimental to the length of their seasons. If that was the case in this state, I would support keeping it illegal as well.


----------



## johnno

Brilliant gadget and great vids Shane. A few questions:

1. As I like to shoot heavy 600gr for about 275fps - if not already asked - how does it perform when shooting slower arrows.
2. Does it continue to track moving game if you hold the button down - and give a continuous reading and show the pin calculated for the variance in distance - or is it mainly for fixed objects?
3. If the pins are set for 10yard increments when shooting at say 25yards does it show just one pin already calculated to that distance - or does it show the 20yd and 30yd pin and you have to split them? 

Cheers


----------



## CareyHamil

I don’t see me needing this in the south east. I usually just range out various points in my shooting lanes or hunting area and adjust from there. For half the cost I could invest in a top end sight and range finder. Cool looking product but not for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

My biggest question is can it be shot in the rain or is it to be treated like having a lens in a rain storm? Will it fog up? Will rain on it keep you from seeing the pin? Is the “projection screen” made of glass?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GaryinOK

Well crap. I really need to stop coming on here and finding new stuff I need to buy. I've been a fan of the Garmin stuff for years. This looks to be pretty cool, all the legal and ethical arguments aside. Gonna have to find out. Kid don't need to go to college anyway.


----------



## Mathias

GaryinOK said:


> Well crap. I really need to stop coming on here and finding new stuff I need to buy. Gonna have to find out. Kid don't need to go to college anyway.


Thanks for the laugh!


----------



## dkkarr

It may have already been asked and I missed it but what kind of warranty does the sight carry ?


----------



## KurtVL

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*

If it’s rugged durable lightweight enough and does what it claims

Every single other sight is obsolete


----------



## ontarget7

johnno said:


> Brilliant gadget and great vids Shane. A few questions:
> 
> 1. As I like to shoot heavy 600gr for about 275fps - if not already asked - how does it perform when shooting slower arrows.
> 2. Does it continue to track moving game if you hold the button down - and give a continuous reading and show the pin calculated for the variance in distance - or is it mainly for fixed objects?
> 3. If the pins are set for 10yard increments when shooting at say 25yards does it show just one pin already calculated to that distance - or does it show the 20yd and 30yd pin and you have to split them?
> 
> Cheers


Thanks 

1) It would perform just the same and your max distance would be similar to any of your fix pin sights. 

2) Yes, it will track and change yardage as the game moves. Have not tested it to see for how long per say

3) In the single pin setting ? Yes, you would just see one pin at the 25 yards while in the single pin mode. This can be changed to fixed pin mode at full draw if desired


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

dkkarr said:


> It may have already been asked and I missed it but what kind of warranty does the sight carry ?


Not sure buddy, haven’t looked into that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

pabuck said:


> My biggest question is can it be shot in the rain or is it to be treated like having a lens in a rain storm? Will it fog up? Will rain on it keep you from seeing the pin? Is the “projection screen” made of glass?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have had it in the rain with no issues and shooting down to -10 so far. 

Next time we get some rain I will get a pic of the sight picture so you can have an idea 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

How long will the pins stay illuminated? For practicing it would be nice to have them lit while you fire a half dozen arrows without having to push the button every time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*

I’m really puzzled as to why some feel it wouldn’t add at making clean shots on your close yardage’s. 
There are so many animals wounded that are shot just under tree stands due to not accounting for holdovers. Many just estimate with their 20 yard pin and hope for the best. 

Would love to hear from some that feel this would not make for a more accurate shot in close range situations? 

Seems to take the guess work out of it and no need for holdovers. This is calculated for you and IMO would make for a more accurate shot. Accurate shots in my book are always more ethical. I’m actually surprised we even debate about those things. 

Now if you don’t like technology, I completely understand even if everything you have has evolved from technology. 

But I do understand, that some will draw the line somewhere. It’s all up to the individual 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

pabuck said:


> How long will the pins stay illuminated? For practicing it would be nice to have them lit while you fire a half dozen arrows without having to push the button every time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s really no trouble at all to retrigger the button. I do believe it stays on for 30 seconds by default. Haven’t even checked to see if you can change that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trucker3573

KurtVL said:


> If it’s rugged durable lightweight enough and does what it claims
> 
> Every single other sight is obsolete


Let's not be ridiculous

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

I have had a few ask about Texas, whether it would be legal. 

According to this, straight from Texas regs it would be legal










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jacobh

Sights pretty awesome but no way can I afford $1000 for sight


----------



## KurtVL

trucker3573 said:


> Let's not be ridiculous
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I didn’t say every other sight was garbage junk and should be thrown in trash

But they are all obsolete if this sight lives up to the claims


----------



## Mathias

jacobh said:


> Sights pretty awesome but no way can I afford $1000 for sight


No worries, it’s “only” $799.00


----------



## ADKHunter3

Im on the fence with this one, could go either way. On one hand this looks pretty awesome, on the other hand it feels like we are getting away from the core of what bow huntings all about. Just my opinion...


----------



## trucker3573

KurtVL said:


> I didn’t say every other sight was garbage junk and should be thrown in trash
> 
> But they are all obsolete if this sight lives up to the claims


That is stretch as the price of this unit will hardly make anything else obsolete. In fact I would guess a very small percentage of bowhunters will ever own one.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*

Since I’ve been testing this sight out I must admit, I’m actually more exited about the sight verses the next bow I’m looking to purchase. 

Yes, definitely a pricey sight but IMO with the features is actually justified for all that it does. 

I do ok with my construction business so I can afford one but at the same time I’m trying to look at things as if I wasn’t in my situation financially. Yet, I am one that buys a new bow every year. I’ve wrestled with this back and forth from a consumers perspective and honestly I would actually just skip a year of a bow upgrade for this sight, it’s that good IMO. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edthearcher

I,am from an era where we started with a stick bow back in he late 40s i have seen all the advancments come, and over the last 60 years


----------



## frog gigger

ADKHunter3 said:


> Im on the fence with this one, could go either way. On one hand this looks pretty awesome, on the other hand it feels like we are getting away from the core of what bow huntings all about. Just my opinion...


Just another electronic gizmo in the woods. 
1 phone
2 rangefinder
3 go pro/other
4 gps
5 trail cam
6 feeder
7 nocks
8 .....................


----------



## ppkaprince98

ontarget7 said:


> Since I’ve been testing this sight out I must admit, I’m actually more exited about the sight verses the next bow I’m looking to purchase.
> 
> Yes, definitely a pricey sight but IMO with the features is actually justified for all that it does.
> 
> I do ok with my construction business so I can afford one but at the same time I’m trying to look at things as if I wasn’t in my situation financially. Yet, I am one that buys a new bow every year. I’ve wrestled with this back and forth from a consumers perspective and honestly I would actually just skip a year of a bow upgrade for this sight, it’s that good IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly. The price seems steep, but thats just because we havent seen a price like this before. There are plenty of $400 sights on the market now, so maybe a lot of people may sell their fully equipped back up bows if they want one. It will take some time but if they work they will sell. THis also just set the bar a bit higher, I bet HHA, Spot hogg and others will be thinking of something similar.


----------



## pabuck

What are the major differences between the $799 A1 model and the $999 A1i model? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KurtVL

pabuck said:


> What are the major differences between the $799 A1 model and the $999 A1i model?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Different color led pin


----------



## ontarget7

KurtVL said:


> Different color led pin


And I believe the multiple arrow setup options as well. I could be wrong 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

I am all for this or anything that could lessen the "help me find my deer" threads. Too bad it's not legal in this state or I'd have one. As for this sight holding up in the weather you have to remember that Garmin has been making marine electronics that stand up to the salt water environment for many many years. They most likely have the same weather resistant technology in this sight.


----------



## Outsider

Is the lens scratch resistant? I know you can put a cover on it made out of cloth. But for that price I would like to see a plastic clamp on cover. Something like cameras use.


----------



## Outsider

> The Xero A1i includes many additional features. Laser Locate™ estimates the arrow’s point of impact and transfers that location to a compatible Garmin device1 so hunters know where to begin their recovery of game


I like that. Have lost a lot of arrows because of a bad shot and never recovered them. This might help at least a little.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

KurtVL said:


> Different color led pin


LASER LOCATE FEATURE*(applies to A1i only)

To help you track game or find arrows, Laser Locate works with*compatible Garmin devices1*to show you exactly where the target was located when the shot or range was taken. That way, you can go directly to that specific spot to begin your search


----------



## pabuck

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



Outsider said:


> I like that. Have lost a lot of arrows because of a bad shot and never recovered them. This might help at least a little.


This would help but I imagine they will only offer this feature on their new gps devices. Meaning you will need to buy another $400 device. Nocturnal nocks solve the lost arrow problem!! This feature doesn’t matter to me but the multiple arrow setup does. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## soldierarcher

One point I'd like to make is that even with this sight compared to anybody else, on a know 20 yard shot we all are still basically the same. This new sight is still using a dot, the EXACT same as a single pin sight set to 20yards would be or like the top pin of my 5 pin. The thing that I am really liking about this sight is no more split pinning! I missed a big doe a few year's ago from quickly drawing and selecting the wrong set of pin's when split pinning. My shot placement was perfect, just skimmed her back perfectly over her heart! Dang it!

Shane, how well does this sight do on a 5 yard shot. I have to use my 50 yard pin inside of about 8 yards.

Very interested in this sight, sounds great!


----------



## ontarget7

soldierarcher said:


> Shane, how well does this sight do on a 5 yard shot. I have to use my 50 yard pin inside of about 8 yards.
> 
> Very interested in this sight, sounds great!


https://youtu.be/HuMWTObOLQo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## digsafe

ppkaprince98 said:


> Exactly. The price seems steep, but thats just because we havent seen a price like this before. There are plenty of $400 sights on the market now, so maybe a lot of people may sell their fully equipped back up bows if they want one. It will take some time but if they work they will sell. THis also just set the bar a bit higher, I bet HHA, Spot hogg and others will be thinking of something similar.


No disrespect to the other bow sight companies making conventional sights, but Garmin is a huge technological company with years of r&d. Hha, spot Hogg won’t be making a sight like this one for a while i doubt ever. It would be another tech giant to enter in.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?productID=573347&tab=software


----------



## Outsider

pabuck said:


> This would help but I imagine they will only offer this feature on their new gps devices. Meaning you will need to buy another $400 device. Nocturnal nocks solve the lost arrow problem!! This feature doesn’t matter to me but the multiple arrow setup does.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Couple weeks ago (before snow hits) I lost my arrow with lighted nock on it. Saw it fly with the nock on. But stay in the tree because deer was still there. Lost the track where it hit and I couldn't see the nock. Too much leaves and other stuff on the ground and probably went under all that stuff. I hope they will make a free app for smartphone which will work with it.


----------



## big44a4

ontarget7 said:


> https://youtu.be/HuMWTObOLQo
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When you adjust pin brightness did you just leave it lower for all shots or adjust as you shoot at longer distances? 

Also you mention making a sight cover to slide over fibers to prevent halo, do you mind sharing how you did that? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jdw2920

It’s definitely nice but I was thinking it was something more than it was I thought it autoranged once it was on or something like that not having to hit the button and all that. How do you adjust the sight for vertical and horizontal issues. Still very interested but I think I would just rather find a sight w led pens and Keep my range finder that already does the angle compensation and stuff.


----------



## Bullhound

bambikiller said:


> Wow,really?usually I like your posts . This one seems uninformed . I mean if your shooting a long bow and homemade cedar arrows ok I get your perspective otherwise your just a hypocrite
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not uninformed in the least. He hit the nail on the head. If these types of advancements are ok in your state, good for you. But out here we know what will happen to our bow hunting seasons if this type should f gear is allowed


----------



## bhutso

jdw2920 said:


> It’s definitely nice but I was thinking it was something more than it was I thought it autoranged once it was on or something like that not having to hit the button and all that. How do you adjust the sight for vertical and horizontal issues. Still very interested but I think I would just rather find a sight w led pens and Keep my range finder that already does the angle compensation and stuff.


1. Use the instructions to sight it in like any other sight. For vertical adjustment It actually asks you if you hit the bullseye, if you didn’t it asks which way you missed and by how much. So no guessing how much to move it it knows how how far you are, it knows how much you missed by so it compensates on it’s own. Horizontal is just a gang adjust it seems 
2. It does angle compensation 
3. You aim it at a target and push a button (can be done while at full draw) it gives you the range and one dot exactly for the yardage you need.

I’m not sure what else it could be expected to be


----------



## Sight Window

Interesting- might wait a year for the second generation to come out.

Does the "window" get dirty walking on hunts or wet with rain or snow?


----------



## Liv4Rut

Unbelievable. I never would have thought I would see Garmin enter the game but always have been a huge fan of garmin. Time to start saving.


----------



## MiStickSlinger

Showed this to a friend of mine and his reaction was there was no way he was going to spend $800 on a sight, even though he has no problem dropping $2500 on a rifle scope


----------



## Whaack

jewalker7842 said:


> Very over sensitive and very insecure and a big baby lol. Method of take has nothing to do with the amount of deer. Stop being a self entitled selfish bowhunter and learn to share the woods.
> 
> Now, personally, I think the sight can be useful to some people. Its no different than using a range finder. I think the price tag is a little much, but it will sell.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not true at all. Method of take has a LOT to do with game populations. Why do you think archery season is months long in most states and gun season is usually only a few days or a couple weeks at best? It's because the efficacy of the method of take. If we continue to make archery more and more effictive then populations will continue to decline unless they shorten the seasons and reduce the number of tags issued. This is kinda basic stuff.


----------



## cbowie

MiStickSlinger said:


> Showed this to a friend of mine and his reaction was there was no way he was going to spend $800 on a sight, even though he has no problem dropping $2500 on a rifle scope


Apparently, he hasn't seen enough of it to understand the value yet. I've got a similar friend of mine that had the same knee jerk reaction but after explaining the benefits, he's tuned up very quickly.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Bullhound

Whaack said:


> Not true at all. Method of take has a LOT to do with game populations. Why do you think archery season is months long in most states and gun season is usually only a few days or a couple weeks at best? It's because the efficacy of the method of take. If we continue to make archery more and more effictive then populations will continue to decline unless they shorten the seasons and reduce the number of tags issued. This is kinda basic stuff.


it is really amazing how many on this site have no clue how game populations are managed.


----------



## MNarrow

Very cool sight.

Not going to get one. In the thick whitetail woods..........a deer is going to come through your shooting lane, you come to full draw before it is in the lane, no pins are up yet since you can't range him, he comes through your lane and you stop him, push the button to range him, dot appears and you have to then focus on shot placement, then execute the shot......all within that short time frame.


----------



## OCHO505

Apparently this sight has to do with ethics, animal management and the history of bow hunting. Interesting! :mg:


----------



## jdw2920

bhutso said:


> jdw2920 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s definitely nice but I was thinking it was something more than it was I thought it autoranged once it was on or something like that not having to hit the button and all that. How do you adjust the sight for vertical and horizontal issues. Still very interested but I think I would just rather find a sight w led pens and Keep my range finder that already does the angle compensation and stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Use the instructions to sight it in like any other sight. For vertical adjustment It actually asks you if you hit the bullseye, if you didn’t it asks which way you missed and by how much. So no guessing how much to move it it knows how how far you are, it knows how much you missed by so it compensates on it’s own. Horizontal is just a gang adjust it seems
> 2. It does angle compensation
> 3. You aim it at a target and push a button (can be done while at full draw) it gives you the range and one dot exactly for the yardage you need.
> 
> I’m not sure what else it could be expected to be
Click to expand...

I was just thinking that when the dot was on it would acquire the target and give range based on the pin rather than having to hit that button to get the same. Maybe hitting the button isn’t a big amount of movement it alters your grip on your handle.


----------



## Bullhound

OCHO505 said:


> Apparently this sight has to do with ethics, animal management and the history of bow hunting. Interesting! :mg:


refreshing actually!!! Like a learning tool.


----------



## bhutso

Bullhound said:


> it is really amazing how many on this site have no clue how game populations are managed.


Maybe because we live in states where game populations are managed by insurance companies and dollar signs


----------



## OCHO505

MNarrow said:


> Very cool sight.
> 
> Not going to get one. In the thick whitetail woods..........a deer is going to come through your shooting lane, you come to full draw before it is in the lane, no pins are up yet since you can't range him, he comes through your lane and you stop him, push the button to range him, dot appears and you have to then focus on shot placement, then execute the shot......all within that short time frame.


Or you can come to full draw as he is about to enter the lane and have the dot up and ready... No different then setting a single pin coming to full draw and waiting till the buck passes. Difference with this is.

If the buck passes you lane and goes to an unknown range you would A) have to guess or B) let down, range and redraw unless you have pins. 

People say the same things about single pin verses pins and visa versa. Its ALL ONES PERSONAL PREFERENCE!

In any event I think the ability to get the exact yardage is beyond valuable to me. I am not sure I would get one but looks very interesting.


----------



## Bullhound

bhutso said:


> Maybe because we live in states where game populations are managed by insurance companies and dollar signs


If that were the case I'd feel bad for you for sure.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

I'm surprised more on here don't use the Leupold vendetta. It's dead on.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

bhutso said:


> Maybe because we live in states where game populations are managed by insurance companies and dollar signs


Yep... Auto insurance claims with deer accidents are considered in most states. Easy data for them to see.


----------



## bhutso

Bullhound said:


> refreshing actually!!! Like a learning tool.





TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Yep... Auto insurance claims with deer accidents are considered in most states. Easy data for them to see.


And as rural areas become more populated, these incidents go up which leads to unlimited tags, longer seasons, crossbows, and when we still aren’t killing them fast enough ... introducing predators to the habitat 

It’s not all just insurance claims 
It’s a lot of factors but where I live the driving force for deer heard numbers sure doesn’t appear to be carrying capacity 
It’s all about $$$

Just one dumb guys opinon
But this dumb guy has seen less and less year after year


----------



## Shockwave31

Even if Garmin made this sight without the ballistics calculator/screen and just had the range finder attached to a 5pin fixed or 1pin adjustable housing it would still be a home run. 

It'd be nice if they offered this as a lower priced option.

That said, they just took the idea behind the Burris Eliminator scope for rifles and applied it to bows. It was really the next logical step for bow sites if you think about it. 

I think they'll sell despite the hunting legality of it all in the western States.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

bhutso said:


> And as rural areas become more populated, these incidents go up which leads to unlimited tags, longer seasons, crossbows, and when we still aren’t killing them fast enough ... introducing predators to the habitat
> 
> It’s not all just insurance claims
> It’s a lot of factors but where I live the driving force for deer heard numbers sure doesn’t appear to be carrying capacity
> It’s all about $$$
> 
> Just one dumb guys opinon
> But this dumb guy has seen less and less year after year


Well of course. Hunting is huge money business for everyone.


----------



## Whaack

bhutso said:


> And as rural areas become more populated, these incidents go up which leads to unlimited tags, longer seasons, crossbows, and when we still aren’t killing them fast enough ... introducing predators to the habitat
> 
> It’s not all just insurance claims
> It’s a lot of factors but where I live the driving force for deer heard numbers sure doesn’t appear to be carrying capacity
> It’s all about $$$
> 
> Just one dumb guys opinon
> But this dumb guy has seen less and less year after year


I'm trying not to derail this thread because I honestly think the technology is pretty dang cool.

BUT, deer harvest numbers have continued to stay about the same in my state (IL) for the most part, yet most hunters continue to report that they are seeing fewer and fewer deer. How can this be you ask???

Efficacy of harvest. There ARE fewer deer, but we continue to get better and better at killing them so harvest numbers stay static.


----------



## spike camp

Whaack said:


> I'm trying not to derail this thread because I honestly think the technology is pretty dang cool.
> 
> BUT, deer harvest numbers have continued to stay about the same in my state (IL) for the most part, yet most hunters continue to report that they are seeing fewer and fewer deer. How can this be you ask???
> 
> Efficacy of harvest. There ARE fewer deer, but we continue to get better and better at killing them so harvest numbers stay static.


That, and hunter numbers fluctuating.


----------



## bhutso

Whaack said:


> I'm trying not to derail this thread because I honestly think the technology is pretty dang cool.
> 
> BUT, deer harvest numbers have continued to stay about the same in my state (IL) for the most part, yet most hunters continue to report that they are seeing fewer and fewer deer. How can this be you ask???
> 
> Efficacy of harvest. There ARE fewer deer, but we continue to get better and better at killing them so harvest numbers stay static.


I get it 
All I’m saying is this sight won’t make any difference in places like that 
The numbers are where they are because that is the goal of those in charge 
If not they would make changes to limit the kill 

The conservation doesn’t want a deer herd like it was 7-8-10 years ago 
They want a huntable population that is small enough to minimize the impact they have on the people taking their habitat

When hunter efficiency improves and numbers go down but tags still go up 
It tells you where the conservation stands on the subject 

That’s my only point as to why many don’t understand how populations are managed as bullhound stated 
They aren’t managed the way they are in Idaho in every other state 
They are worried the season might be limited, I’m over here wishing someone in charge of my state would do something to limit things 

Back to how awesome this sight is 

Anyone want to buy a target bow?


----------



## bghunter7311

It won't be long before we have $4k-$5k in our archery set up.


----------



## meatman

bghunter7311 said:


> It won't be long before we have $4k-$5k in our archery set up.


Until the next great recession that is. We're partying like its 2005......


----------



## MIKE0509

This might have already been discussed but can anyone tell me if its been said by shane how the sight performs and ranges in low light situation. This is a really big and important part to us bowhunters with a rangefinder is that it performs well at twilight conditions with an illuminated reticle. I would not want to send back my new SIG 2000 rangefinder which does both of these conditions extremely well if the sight can't perform as well. Again the 2 conditions I'm speaking of are 1)Ability to range in twilight conditions 2) range on a dark target.


----------



## ShootingABN!

Custom Black Widow bow 1K+..... & that's just a traditional bow.


----------



## Wenty

This may have been answered. But is there any lag between pressing the button and the dot showing up? Or like a normal rangefinder...instant? Is this easy to range while at full draw?


----------



## MNarrow

bghunter7311 said:


> It won't be long before we have $4k-$5k in our archery set up.


Can get over $3000 pretty easy

Hoyt Carbon 1600
Garmin 1000
Hoyt Quiver 240
QAD MXT 240


----------



## MNarrow

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdz5KkiHQzE/?hl=en&taken-by=nockontv

Not sure if this has been released prior to ATA, but Dud just put this on Instagram today.......IQ rangefinder sight.


----------



## elite-ish_kinda

I'm guessing that since Colorado still won't allow scopes to be mounted on muzzle loaders this won't be legal for some time.

I like the idea, although it's main failure is that I will no longer be able to blame my equipment. That's a deal breaker right there.


----------



## soldierarcher

Dang! Thank you Shane.

Alrighty guy's, how do you throw a rock at that? Anything currently shorter than 10 yards give's me the **** gebe's, sound's like this sight solves that. 

Awesome!


----------



## aread

Nope, not good enough. 
I'll wait until they come out with a model that synchronizes with a release and automatically fires the shot when the pin is on target. 
That way I don't have to punch the trigger, the unit does it for me. 
JK - awesome technology
Allen


----------



## BP1992

Is the red dot pretty solid where you can see it easy on sunny days?


----------



## VAwhitetail

Looks interesting. But c'mon guys. Doesnt the EZV do all this? :wink:


----------



## V-TRAIN

it looks cool, but i have no interest in owning one, even if it was $100. i have had no problem killing critters for 30 years with pin sights, there is just way to much that can go wrong with that thing if you ask me.


----------



## Rhyno_09

Concept has been in Rifle scopes for a long time now. Look at Burris Eliminator II and look up the Linux rifle scope. It was just a matter of time when a company decided to follow that concept to archery


----------



## ADKHunter3

How does it preform in foggy conditions?


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

aread said:


> Nope, not good enough.
> I'll wait until they come out with a model that synchronizes with a release and automatically fires the shot when the pin is on target.
> That way I don't have to punch the trigger, the unit does it for me.
> JK - awesome technology
> Allen


Lol.. just wait until you don't need a sight. It will be put into the smart glasses. Just look and shabang


----------



## rockyw

$800.00 dollar bow sight? Recalculating!


----------



## bigbucks170

wow I want one ......thats awesome exciting for sure....


----------



## bcowette

Keep in mind MSRP is $800 street price will probably be $700 or less.


----------



## Outsider

I see guys complaining this is not what bowhunting is all about. So why do you use compound bow? Hunt with traditional one without sight , peep , release and use wooden arrows. Archery hunting is about to get to animal as close as possible and shot execution. If there are tools that will help you make a good kill why not to use them? I'm pretty sure a lot of these guys don't mind using handheld rangefinder but this sight is ridiculous.


----------



## bcowette

I'd like to see some extensive testing done in extreme low light conditions. All of the shots I've gotten on mature bucks where I hunt are in the first or last minutes of legal light. It's usually late enough that I need my binoculars to identify which buck it is. My biggest concern with this sight is how the lens reacts in those conditions because to be honest it doesn't look like any sort of quality lens on the sight. Add in the potential glare from the red dot being projected onto it and I bet there is a good chance you cant see anything at 30 yards in those lighting conditions.


----------



## Adam634

Bullhound said:


> If you guys want these in your states, great! I know why we have our archery seasons in Idaho. If this type of stuff is allowed, we will lose seasons, period. Again, I very well may buy one because it looks like a kick! But don't try to push these new items as something that all states SHOULD allow for hunting.


I agree man, archery hunting has enough technology already, this device isn't going to help people recover game. It will however help people take longer shots than they should, so I would say it could possibly have the opposite effect. I mean look at firearms, the rangefinders are nuts and we have a types of shooters thinking they can hit something at 700-1000 yds cause they have fancy rangefinder.


----------



## bcowette

Outsider said:


> I see guys complaining this is not what bowhunting is all about. So why do you use compound bow? Hunt with traditional one without sight , peep , release and use wooden arrows. Archery hunting is about to get to animal as close as possible and shot execution. If there are tools that will help you make a good kill why not to use them? I'm pretty sure a lot of these guys don't mind using handheld rangefinder but this sight is ridiculous.



The people complaining are the type that get mad when anyone but them kills a deer. Getting a mature buck in bow range is and always will be the hardest part of bow hunting. Period.


----------



## Ned250

MNarrow said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdz5KkiHQzE/?hl=en&taken-by=nockontv
> 
> Not sure if this has been released prior to ATA, but Dud just put this on Instagram today.......IQ rangefinder sight.


That's a cool idea, but using the top pin as the rangefinder is a recipe for disaster when the target requires a different pin to shoot.


----------



## MNarrow

Ned250 said:


> That's a cool idea, but using the top pin as the rangefinder is a recipe for disaster when the target requires a different pin to shoot.


Disaster? Wouldn't you want a reference point for ranging like the crosshairs on an actual rangefinder?

Does the Garmin have some sort of reference point for ranging? Or do you just center inside the scope?


----------



## Ned250

MNarrow said:


> Disaster? Wouldn't you want a reference point for ranging like the crosshairs on an actual rangefinder?
> 
> Does the Garmin have some sort of reference point for ranging? Or do you just center inside the scope?


You use the top pin to range your target. It reads 38yds. In the heat of the moment, you're still holding that top pin on the buck and execute the shot. You forgot to re-aim with your 40yd pin - arrow goes under his belly......


----------



## bhutso

MNarrow said:


> Disaster? Wouldn't you want a reference point for ranging like the crosshairs on an actual rangefinder?
> 
> Does the Garmin have some sort of reference point for ranging? Or do you just center inside the scope?


The way it looks- When You hold down the button you get a red dot and a green circle, this is your point of aim for ranging and it is continuously ranging while you hold the button 
When you let off the button the aimpoint for the rangefinder disappears and the pin you need for that range pops up. No other clutter while you shoot 
Just the one dot you need to be accurate at the distance you just ranged


----------



## MNarrow

bhutso said:


> The way it looks- When You hold down the button you get a red dot and a green circle, this is your point of aim for ranging and it is continuously ranging while you hold the button
> When you let off the button the aimpoint for the rangefinder disappears and the pin you need for that range pops up. No other clutter while you shoot
> Just the one dot you need to be accurate at the distance you just ranged


Nice. That makes sense.


----------



## ontarget7

bcowette said:


> I'd like to see some extensive testing done in extreme low light conditions. All of the shots I've gotten on mature bucks where I hunt are in the first or last minutes of legal light. It's usually late enough that I need my binoculars to identify which buck it is. My biggest concern with this sight is how the lens reacts in those conditions because to be honest it doesn't look like any sort of quality lens on the sight. Add in the potential glare from the red dot being projected onto it and I bet there is a good chance you cant see anything at 30 yards in those lighting conditions.


I would say you might be surprised 

Low light is better than any standard pin sight since you have total control of pin brightness. Plus a completely better field of view. There is no glare with the dot being projected 

I test a lot of stuff and this has got to be tops on the list. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> I would say you might be surprised
> 
> Low light is better than any standard pin sight since you have total control of pin brightness. Plus a completely better field of view. There is no glare with the dot being projected
> 
> I test a lot of stuff and this has got to be tops on the list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shane I noticed you said for longer shots you adjusted the brightness 

From the videos it looks like you set the brightness you like and then it uses ambient light sensors to maintain that level of brightness for the lighting conditions you are in

Did you manually adjust it at different ranges or did it adjust on its own


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

I'm still curious of size .010 .015. .019 ?


----------



## bhutso

If it’s anything like the Range Rover dot sight I had pin size depends on brightness 

On the lower but still visible settings it was like .10
The brightest setting looked like a .29


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> Shane I noticed you said for longer shots you adjusted the brightness
> 
> From the videos it looks like you set the brightness you like and then it uses ambient light sensors to maintain that level of brightness for the lighting conditions you are in
> 
> Did you manually adjust it at different ranges or did it adjust on its own


It will use the ambient light sensor. However, I mentioned in my video about my long range shooting and how I like the brightness fairly dim so I don’t get a halo effect with my stigmatism. This is the reason why under certain conditions I will over ride it manually and fine tune it for my eyes to insure the most accurate shot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bghunter7311

maybe this has been asked but can you shoot it without ranging something for example deer walk into 15 yards in a hurry.


----------



## ontarget7

bghunter7311 said:


> maybe this has been asked but can you shoot it without ranging something for example deer walk into 15 yards in a hurry.


Yes, just trigger it to fixed pins


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MNarrow

ontarget7 said:


> Yes, just trigger it to fixed pins
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can that be done at full draw? Or is it a setting you have to push on the sight? If full draw then that would solve my quick shooting lane situation.


----------



## ontarget7

MNarrow said:


> Can that be done at full draw? Or is it a setting you have to push on the sight? If full draw then that would solve my quick shooting lane situation.


Yes, at full draw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hoyt'Em10

griffwar said:


> Oregon is mandatory reporting on all game animals, if you don't they ding you 25.00 dollars on your next hunting are fishing license purchase.


If you don’t report it, how do they know to ding you for not reporting it. . . ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kicker338

If you guys think this sight is a muddy water issue, just wait till some company comes out with a laser sight for bows that is wirelessly connected to a release so all you would have to do is get your pin, cross
hair or what ever floating on the target, press the button on the release and the release wont fire until the laser tells it to. No joke here either, after watching a news guy on fox news I think who had never 
ever shot a gun shoot a laser controlled gun hit a target at 1,00yds on his second shot. That gun used a computer to fire to fire the gun when the cross hairs were pretty much centered on the target.


----------



## cbowie

kicker338 said:


> If you guys think this sight is a muddy water issue, just wait till some company comes out with a laser sight for bows that is wirelessly connected to a release so all you would have to do is get your pin, cross
> hair or what ever floating on the target, press the button on the release and the release wont fire until the laser tells it to. No joke here either, after watching a news guy on fox news I think who had never
> ever shot a gun shoot a laser controlled gun hit a target at 1,00yds on his second shot. That gun used a computer to fire to fire the gun when the cross hairs were pretty much centered on the target.


Bring it on...that would eliminate target panic!!!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

they will sell a lot of these....lol I will be buying one ..thing is amazing


----------



## Bullhound

Hoyt'Em10 said:


> If you don’t report it, how do they know to ding you for not reporting it. . . ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Every single persons license and tags are entered into the system. Pretty easy for them to identify if you have reported and what you reported.


----------



## Predator

So question on a couple of scenarios with similar challenges - deer hunting out of treestand - buck is walking behind limbs etc. and you stop him in a small hole but rangefinder is picking up limbs in front of buck rather than buck - what pin do you get? Or, spot-n-stalk on bedded muley in grass and RF is picking up grass in foreground that you know isn't at the right distance (you either need to catch an ear or nearby object or guess based on range of grass in front) - what pin do you get?

I just know it can be a pain to get my RF to give me exact right distance in situations like this or I have to adjust using judgment and don't know how you do that on the fly with a sight that picks your pin for you based on a range it gets that probably isn't accurate in certain cases.


----------



## bhutso

Predator said:


> So question on a couple of scenarios with similar challenges - deer hunting out of treestand - buck is walking behind limbs etc. and you stop him in a small hole but rangefinder is picking up limbs in front of buck rather than buck - what pin do you get? Or, spot-n-stalk on bedded muley in grass and RF is picking up grass in foreground that you know isn't at the right distance (you either need to catch an ear or nearby object or guess based on range of grass in front) - what pin do you get?
> 
> I just know it can be a pain to get my RF to give me exact right distance in situations like this or I have to adjust using judgment and don't know how you do that on the fly with a sight that picks your pin for you based on a range it gets that probably isn't accurate in certain cases.


You click the button 
Switch to fixed pins that you preset and take the shot if you are just going to judge yardage


----------



## bcowette

Bullhound said:


> Every single persons license and tags are entered into the system. Pretty easy for them to identify if you have reported and what you reported.


So all you have to do is report that you shot nothing weather true or not?


----------



## GaryinOK

So looking at the compatible devices Garmin is going to get me for $1,600 ($999 for the sight and another $600 for the GPS watch?). I say it like that because even if I tell myself no way I am getting that, the seed has been planted. Very intrigued to see where this is going next. If the sight can tell where I shot the deer and from which direction, I would imagine the GPS could survey the terrain and give me some ideas as to what direction he might have ran off too? I am kidding of course but they already have grid search programs. What's next.


----------



## mplane72

Besides the fact that I would have a hard time trusting this tech on any hunt it does go over the line for me as far as combining tech into my archery. Yes, I have a rangefinder and multi pin slider but something about it just does not feel right. Next will be magnification. Don't really need it all combined either.

Only thing about it I can say I'd like to try is the view with out the pin posts in the sight picture.

When I see things like this it makes me want to buy a trad bow.


----------



## wis. bowhunter

bhutso said:


> I just hope they bought these people out for thier idea
> 
> https://youtu.be/m922FPP8v2s
> 
> Been looking at this since 2015
> According to bowrangers web page this will also be available in 2018
> 
> The Garmin looks much better but this is the exact same concept


Bhutso The bowranger is supposed to be coming out in 2018 but if you look at there website it says it is not available to the U.S. market. I emailed bowranger about that and all they would say was it was because of legal issues. I am guessing that garmin has the patent for this sight and that is why the bowranger can't be sold in the U.S. To me this sight looks like it has better features than the bowranger.


----------



## Hoyt'Em10

Bullhound said:


> Every single persons license and tags are entered into the system. Pretty easy for them to identify if you have reported and what you reported.


Big game reporting is tagging and reporting a dead big game animal you killed. Answering a survey about big game hunting is, well, answering a survey. Different states have different definitions I suppose. 

As far as this sight goes, it’s really cool tech but I wish it didn’t exist. I’ve been thinking of going to trad gear for a while. This sight has really solidified that switch for me. 

“There’s more fun in hunting with the handicap of a bow than there is the sureness of a rifle.” -Fred Bear

We’re getting ever closer to rifles. . . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hoyt slayer

Anyone else think that IQ is over at their booth with their new ranging sight and super angry because they thought they were the first to come up with this tech. I would have loved to see there faces when they first heard about the Garmin sight. The Garmin looks to be leaps and bounds ahead of the IQ.


----------



## RipT

this looks pretty cool too, thanks for the share.

didn't post the reply, it was in regards to the iq rangefinder bowsight. i'm guessing it will come in less than 799/999


----------



## soldierarcher

@mplane72, not just magnification we have that today. Zoom. yeah baby! @GaryinOK, I run with the Garmin Forerunner 910XT. Once you try one you will wonder how you have lived without it. The data is incredible! I've even taken it on hunts just so I can come home and download it into my computer to see where I have been. It plots your path on Google Earth. Very cool. I've also worn it while riding my dirtbike. It records how fast you were going and where you were at, very interesting data once you get back home from a ride. Also tells you elevation, heart rate, pace, and way way way more.

Yep, Garmin just take more of my money......


----------



## jdw2920

Shane I been trying to message you but says it’s full


----------



## GaryinOK

soldierarcher said:


> @mplane72, not just magnification we have that today. Zoom. yeah baby! @GaryinOK, I run with the Garmin Forerunner 910XT. Once you try one you will wonder how you have lived without it. The data is incredible! I've even taken it on hunts just so I can come home and download it into my computer to see where I have been. It plots your path on Google Earth. Very cool. I've also worn it while riding my dirtbike. It records how fast you were going and where you were at, very interesting data once you get back home from a ride. Also tells you elevation, heart rate, pace, and way way way more.
> 
> Yep, Garmin just take more of my money......


Yes even before I saw the sight I had my eye on the Fenix 5x. I've never owned a Garmin product I was disappointed with. They are headquartered about a mile from my office, so supporting the local economy I guess.


----------



## Hunt Fish Hunt

Thanks for sharing. IMO it's more of a expensive novelty P&Y will never permit it. 
Have to sqeeze a trigger on the front of my riser just goes against everything I have been told or read about relaxing your bow hand? 
Plus the weight, isn't the idea of an higher altitude hunt to keep things light? I hope states do not allow it for hunting. It's kinda like texting and shooting. Poeple will be watching the numbers and thinking about the trigger, and forgetting the MOST important thing in the shot FORM. 
I'm going to have to pass on this one.


----------



## bhutso

wis. bowhunter said:


> Bhutso The bowranger is supposed to be coming out in 2018 but if you look at there website it says it is not available to the U.S. market. I emailed bowranger about that and all they would say was it was because of legal issues. I am guessing that garmin has the patent for this sight and that is why the bowranger can't be sold in the U.S. To me this sight looks like it has better features than the bowranger.


Good to know 
Thanks for the info 

I will agree this looks much better than the bowranger


----------



## roosiebull

ontarget7 said:


> Since I’ve been testing this sight out I must admit, I’m actually more exited about the sight verses the next bow I’m looking to purchase.
> 
> Yes, definitely a pricey sight but IMO with the features is actually justified for all that it does.
> 
> I do ok with my construction business so I can afford one but at the same time I’m trying to look at things as if I wasn’t in my situation financially. Yet, I am one that buys a new bow every year. I’ve wrestled with this back and forth from a consumers perspective and honestly I would actually just skip a year of a bow upgrade for this sight, it’s that good IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i agree, the price is plenty reasonable for what features it has. it's an impressive piece of engineering.


----------



## NCBOW1

that would be nice to have in an ideal situation. it is digital. how would it hold up in extreme weather? electronics, something else to fail


----------



## psychobaby111

Isn't that almost cheating?


----------



## bhutso

NCBOW1 said:


> that would be nice to have in an ideal situation. it is digital. how would it hold up in extreme weather? electronics, something else to fail


Waterproof and tested to -20 or so 

I don’t think my range finder or my body would withstand that temp anyway


----------



## bhutso

psychobaby111 said:


> Isn't that almost cheating?


To some yes

But having two bows that ibo 340 would also be cheating to some


----------



## duby8609

Shockwave31 said:


> Even if Garmin made this sight without the ballistics calculator/screen and just had the range finder attached to a 5pin fixed or 1pin adjustable housing it would still be a home run.
> 
> It'd be nice if they offered this as a lower priced option.
> 
> That said, they just took the idea behind the Burris Eliminator scope for rifles and applied it to bows. It was really the next logical step for bow sites if you think about it.
> 
> I think they'll sell despite the hunting legality of it all in the western States.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Then you may want to look into the IQ Define just released. $380. Bet they are pissed off today thinking they were to first to introduce this tech and the boom Garmin does this.


----------



## roosiebull

Hoyt'Em10 said:


> Big game reporting is tagging and reporting a dead big game animal you killed. Answering a survey about big game hunting is, well, answering a survey. Different states have different definitions I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


it's called "tag reporting" we only have to report bear and lions (maybe sheep and goats, but i don't know)


----------



## Hoyt'Em10

roosiebull said:


> it's called "tag reporting" we only have to report bear and lions (maybe sheep and goats, but i don't know)


So here we have a 1,000 dollar bow sight that ranges and picks the pin you need, but you’re saying that there are state game departments that don’t have automated systems to automatically check game? And it’s only a $25 dollar convenience fee if you don’t report it at the end of the year? That blows my mind. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MNarrow

psychobaby111 said:


> Isn't that almost cheating?


Is a traditional bow almost cheating?? Such an advantage over a spear.


----------



## GaryinOK

NCBOW1 said:


> that would be nice to have in an ideal situation. it is digital. how would it hold up in extreme weather? electronics, something else to fail


I think that is probably the most interesting part about this thing. The fact that it is made by Garmin. I mean think about it. I can't think of single archery related product or component that we buy that is built by a company as massive and far reaching as Garmin? Even the Mathew's, and Hoyt's of the world are what a couple of hundred people? Maybe 30 or 40 engineers at best? Think about the number of fish finders and marine GPS systems these guys crank out every year. I have one on my boat right now. I think they got extreme weather and electronics covered. They are for sure not dabbling in this. If it's in their product line I'm pretty comfortable that they have covered the bases. What I find interesting is that have not ventured into the archery world before. If you think about it, and look at what they did to the fitness tracker market that Fitbit owned for like ever, they are in a pretty good position. Are the Spot Hogg's, HHA's or CBE's of the world going to compete? Garmin is accustomed to competing with the Nike's, the Goggle's and the Apple's of the world. If they want this market they are going to take it, and with the first shot out the gate it sure looks like they do.


----------



## Shockwave31

duby8609 said:


> Then you may want to look into the IQ Define just released. $380. Bet they are pissed off today thinking they were to first to introduce this tech and the boom Garmin does this.


Yeah I saw the video someone posted. Very interested to compare and contrast. Now if it we're in a one pin adjustable with the attached range finder I would pull the trigger for the $380 price point in a heartbeat.

Cool stuff nonetheless!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## MossyMan

psychobaby111 said:


> Isn't that almost cheating?


Depends on how you define cheating...


----------



## Outsider

duby8609 said:


> Then you may want to look into the IQ Define just released. $380. Bet they are pissed off today thinking they were to first to introduce this tech and the boom Garmin does this.


IQ sight is nothing new. They just incorporate Leuopold rangefinder into sight. I still like it better then having range finder and sight separate. But I like Garmin's more.


----------



## soldierarcher

How is this cheating really. All the sight is doing is providing a dot. At known yardages we have that today........We have clarifiers and lenses too.


----------



## ontarget7

They set the bar so high in that market it’s going to be tough for others to come close. Specially from a company like Garmin. Crazy, they absolutely killed it coming out with their first archery product. 

Honestly, my hats off to the whole crew that had their hand in this. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

probably going to hold off on getting my Stealth SE and get this sight for my Decree IC right away ....Crazy I cant wait to get one 
has so many futures the arrow counter, vibration record, location of where target was....etc seriously damn didn't wake up expecting
to open this thread and spend 1K.....Thanks Shane for testing and posting


----------



## KurtVL

ontarget7 said:


> They set the bar so high in that market it’s going to be tough for others to come close. Specially from a company like Garmin. Crazy, they absolutely killed it coming out with their first archery product.
> 
> Honestly, my hats off to the whole crew that had their hand in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I bet there was a bunch of people at the show that rep for other sights that just browned their pants 

Paradigm shift 

Once something like this is available the consumer will start asking when is company X going to offer it

And all the other sights are so far behind in technology but not only that in the information required to make it along with the technical people to design it

Some companies simply won’t be able to catch up


----------



## Bullhound

Hoyt'Em10 said:


> Big game reporting is tagging and reporting a dead big game animal you killed. Answering a survey about big game hunting is, well, answering a survey. *Different states have different definitions I suppose*.
> 
> As far as this sight goes, it’s really cool tech but I wish it didn’t exist. I’ve been thinking of going to trad gear for a while. This sight has really solidified that switch for me.
> 
> “There’s more fun in hunting with the handicap of a bow than there is the sureness of a rifle.” -Fred Bear
> 
> We’re getting ever closer to rifles. . .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yep, different states have different rules, regulations, populations, and ways they handle their rules and regulations. To include trying to actually collect all the information they can to make solid game management decisions based off of herd counts, surveys, tags sold, tags used, carrying capacity, etc. Sound biological game management based off of the true life existing conditions.......................

And I'm with you on not needing to add new gadgets to our bowhunbting seasons. I will not attempt to speak for any other states seasons, weapon rules, or tag allotment.


----------



## I like Meat

I'll stick with my $139 HHA 5519 ... hasnt let me down yet ...


----------



## Sight Window

I know you can only see one pin at a time but are there multiple pins and it just picks the best pin? If so, heavy arrows with large pins gaps might not be any more accurate then holding over or under a traditional pin?


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

ontarget7 said:


> They set the bar so high in that market it’s going to be tough for others to come close. Specially from a company like Garmin. Crazy, they absolutely killed it coming out with their first archery product.
> 
> Honestly, my hats off to the whole crew that had their hand in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep... Swing big or go home. They knew what to do.


----------



## meatman

Hoyt slayer said:


> Anyone else think that IQ is over at their booth with their new ranging sight and super angry because they thought they were the first to come up with this tech. I would have loved to see there faces when they first heard about the Garmin sight. The Garmin looks to be leaps and bounds ahead of the IQ.


My question is why hasnt this been done sooner. Its a no-brainer. Its one of the first questions I had when I first joined AT and started learning about sights. It just makes sense. I thought legal issues were the reason nobody was manufacturing them. Now look, 2 companies have them. Truglo will be next.


----------



## ScopeRKT

Wish I could get one. But no bow mounted electronics in CA. I think we just got sight lights approved a couple years ago.


----------



## PeterM

How does it deal with getting a range through light brush looking for a hole to get a shot through or grass that's half way up on covering an animal?

2nd: How well does it get range off real animal targets (animals with different colour fur) namely black?

Pete.


----------



## krieger

I think Roosie and Whaack and Bull all made good points, but this isn't the beginning or even the end of the electronic hunting gadget era...I bet 90% of the guys on AT never had to go anywhere without a handheld GPS when they were out in the boonies, or had to shoot at a critter without ranging it first..,,two electronic gadgets that changed the landscape of archery WAY more than this new sight...now even a directional challenged metro can traipse up a mountain and find his way back to his Miata, thanks to his GPS..

Method of take IS important, efficiencies will change the tag system, it's not up for debate. What is up for debate is how and by what metric will it change... That being said, I bet you my truck against yours that wolves and lions will kill more elk in 2018 than this new Garmin sight....anyone??


----------



## MNarrow

krieger said:


> That being said, I bet you my truck against yours that wolves and lions will kill more elk in 2018 than this new Garmin sight....anyone??


Since the sight is illegal in most elk states.........


----------



## hoyt fo life555

Until I can get my hands on this I must ask questions. So I realize you program it for what yardages you want, say 20, 30, 40 so on. What happens when you have something at an In between yardage , like 25 yards ? Does both the 20 and 30 show up, and you shoot between. Or does it place a dot at 25 ?


----------



## Bullhound

MNarrow said:


> Since the sight is illegal in most elk states.........


yeah, that's a loaded bet krieger!!! that sight will not be allowed where most elk are hunted! You hedged your bet my man!!!


----------



## Bullhound

hoyt fo life555 said:


> Until I can get my hands on this I must ask questions. So I realize you program it for what yardages you want, say 20, 30, 40 so on. What happens when you have something at an In between yardage , like 25 yards ? Does both the 20 and 30 show up, and you shoot between. Or does it place a dot at 25 ?


watch the videos. They explain it very well. You shoot in those particular ranges, and the unit "LEARNS" everything in between. To include degrees up or down. Then when you pull it up and range, one pin/dot will show up that is for the exact yardage you are shooting.


----------



## MCamp508

My buddy sent me a link about this ting the other day. 800$ for a sight is kind of nuts. Range finder is 100$ my sight was 70$. just saved 630 bucks!! Cool concept though.


----------



## griffwar

Hoyt'Em10 said:


> Big game reporting is tagging and reporting a dead big game animal you killed. Answering a survey about big game hunting is, well, answering a survey. Different states have different definitions I suppose.
> 
> As far as this sight goes, it’s really cool tech but I wish it didn’t exist. I’ve been thinking of going to trad gear for a while. This sight has really solidified that switch for me.
> 
> “There’s more fun in hunting with the handicap of a bow than there is the sureness of a rifle.” -Fred Bear
> 
> We’re getting ever closer to rifles. . .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They ask you what unit you hunted how many days afield you spent and if you where successful are not, on each species that you where lucky enough to draw a tag for. Out west is a lot different in how they set up there seasons and you have to draw for a lot of big game hunts. There is a lot of over the counter hunts to for bow and rifle, must deer and elk hunt's for bow are over the counter with some units draw only for antelope sheep and goat it's draw only rifle are bow.


----------



## hoyt fo life555

Bullhound said:


> watch the videos. They explain it very well. You shoot in those particular ranges, and the unit "LEARNS" everything in between. To include degrees up or down. Then when you pull it up and range, one pin/dot will show up that is for the exact yardage you are shooting.


Cool thanks, I watched the videos, but while trying to watch a 5 year old. Needless to say I miss a few things. Rather then watch them all four or five times, I figure I would ask and see if any one knew the answer. Call me lazy, thanks though !


----------



## Bullhound

hoyt fo life555 said:


> Cool thanks, I watched the videos, *but while trying to watch a 5 year old*. Needless to say I miss a few things. Rather then watch them all four or five times, I figure I would ask and see if any one knew the answer. Call me lazy, thanks though !



best of luck there!!! I learned with mine that they are in charge, we just take a while to catch on!!!!!!


----------



## spike camp

hoyt fo life555 said:


> Until I can get my hands on this I must ask questions. So I realize you program it for what yardages you want, say 20, 30, 40 so on. What happens when you have something at an In between yardage , like 25 yards ? Does both the 20 and 30 show up, and you shoot between. Or does it place a dot at 25 ?



I believe this to be correct...
In the multi pin mode, to hit say 35 you’d pin gap your third and forth pin as you would normally.
If in the ranging mode, you’d keep ranging until ready to shoot, release the button and a single pin would pop up for 35 yards.


----------



## Rhyno_09

If the range finder cannot work due to rain, snow, fog, branches, etc...I would assume it would be useless then at that point.


----------



## ontarget7

spike camp said:


> I believe this to be correct...
> In the multi pin mode, to hit say 35 you’d pin gap your third and forth pin as you would normally.
> If in the ranging mode, you’d keep ranging until ready to shoot, release the button and a single pin would pop up for 35 yards.


Yep, your choice 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Rhyno_09 said:


> If the range finder cannot work due to rain, snow, fog, branches, etc...I would assume it would be useless then at that point.


No 

As mentioned 36 times you can also sight in fixed pins and switch to them while at full draw with the touch of a button


----------



## Rhyno_09

bhutso said:


> No
> 
> As mentioned 36 times you can also sight in fixed pins and switch to them while at full draw with the touch of a button


Oh, I did nnot read through all 18 pages of this post  But I did watch the video on their web site, but I do not remember them making mention of that (It also may have stated that in writing on their site to, but I did not read any of it...just watched the video)


----------



## bhutso

Rhyno_09 said:


> Oh, I did nnot read through all 18 pages of this post  But I did watch the video on their web site, but I do not remember them making mention of that (It also may have stated that in writing on their site to, but I did not read any of it...just watched the video)


Sorry I have a smart ass problem sometimes 

It appears that they really engineered this thing to meet any challenge a hunter will face 

But anyway when you set up the sight you can also choose to calibrate fixed pins along with the rangefinding features of the sight 


So if something comes in and you have and opening but can’t get a range and you are comfortable you know the distance, Tap the button on the grip of the bow and fixed pins pop up 
Now you can use those to take the shot 

It’s a back up feature to insure the sight is never “useless”

I’ve read and watched so many videos on this the last 2 days I feel like I already have one  
And I will eventually


----------



## Hoyt'Em10

Bullhound said:


> yep, different states have different rules, regulations, populations, and ways they handle their rules and regulations. To include trying to actually collect all the information they can to make solid game management decisions based off of herd counts, surveys, tags sold, tags used, carrying capacity, etc. Sound biological game management based off of the true life existing conditions.......................
> 
> And I'm with you on not needing to add new gadgets to our bowhunbting seasons. I will not attempt to speak for any other states seasons, weapon rules, or tag allotment.


I know how the system works. I work in fisheries conservation for a state department of game and fish. It just really blows my mind that some states don’t technically require big game kills to be reported. It’s 2018, a phone and computer reporting system is not hard to implement. 
You’re always going to have outlaws that kill/creel more than the limit, and non-reporting bias is worked into figures, but I can’t for the life of me understand why a state entity wouldn’t have an automated system to capture as many reported kills as possible. That $25 dollar non reporting fee is referred to and prosecuted as poaching in many states. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## highwaynorth

Anybody find out how much this sight weighs? I’m guessing it must be substantial since 
I couldn’t find it on the Garmin web site and I didn’t hear it mentioned in any of the
videos.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

highwaynorth said:


> Anybody find out how much this sight weighs? I’m guessing it must be substantial since
> I couldn’t find it on the Garmin web site and I didn’t hear it mentioned in any of the
> videos.


I think 14.7


----------



## roosiebull

Rhyno_09 said:


> If the range finder cannot work due to rain, snow, fog, branches, etc...I would assume it would be useless then at that point.


guessing it will act like any other range finder, but you have a fixed pin option as well, so this sight DOES NOT put you at a disadvantage over other sights. has to be pretty bad weather to not be able to get a range within bow range though.

i doubt anyone who gets this sight will be disappointed, Garmin makes awesome products. i have put my GPS through hell and it's never skipped a beat. it's going to be a neat product for those who choose/ or are allowed to utilize it.


----------



## pabuck

The only downfall to this sight is that it is 100% electronic! We all know what’s happens to electronics eventually. For example, I own a Leupold RX-1000i rangefinder (one of the best made). Had it for 2 years and never had a problem with it. Last year during the rut I had a buck sneak past me in a cut corn field and I knew the shot was far so I pull up my trusty rx-1000 and NOTHING!!! I hit every button on it and could not even make it flash. I couldn’t get a good read on the distance, thought it was close to 60 which I don’t feel comfortable at, so I passed. After the buck walked off, I hung my bow up and tried the range finder again and boom, 51 yards. I would have taken that shot with my 50 yard pin. 

If this sight fails to come on at the moment of truth, you are **** out luck bc you’ll be staring at a blank sheet of glass! This is the only aspect that is stopping me from buying it!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## roosiebull

pabuck said:


> The only downfall to this sight is that it is 100% electronic! We all know what’s happens to electronics eventually. For example, I own a Leupold RX-1000i rangefinder (one of the best made). Had it for 2 years and never had a problem with it. Last year during the rut I had a buck sneak past me in a cut corn field and I knew the shot was far so I pull up my trusty rx-1000 and NOTHING!!! I hit every button on it and could not even make it flash. I couldn’t get a good read on the distance, thought it was close to 60 which I don’t feel comfortable at, so I passed. After the buck walked off, I hung my bow up and tried the range finder again and boom, 51 yards. I would have taken that shot with my 50 yard pin.
> 
> If this sight fails to come on at the moment of truth, you are **** out luck bc you’ll be staring at a blank sheet of glass! This is the only aspect that is stopping me from buying it!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


on the other hand, i have beat my GPS to death, left it in my wet pack for several days in a row, and i think i have had it for 5 yrs. Garmin makes good stuff, but you certainly have a valid point.


----------



## roosiebull

as far as pin brightness, if it's anything like leupold's fire dot scopes, it works excellent in any light conditions you will be shooting.


----------



## pabuck

roosiebull said:


> on the other hand, i have beat my GPS to death, left it in my wet pack for several days in a row, and i think i have had it for 5 yrs. Garmin makes good stuff, but you certainly have a valid point.


You’re right, they make great stuff but I also have a garmin rino 650t gps/hand held radio and the ear bud connection doesn’t transmit. I took 1 back for the same reason, so I managed to get 2 units that both have same problem. Now I just use the button on the side of the radio to talk. AND the electronic compass needs calibrated almost every time I go out (my dads does as well). I’m not bashing the product/company, I’m just stating there are almost always imperfections with all electronic equipment to some degree. I can live with it on my gps/radio, however I could never live with it on a bow sight. 

Your bow sight needs to be the most fool proof, indestructible piece of all your equipment, which is why I shoot Truball sights. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> You’re right, they make great stuff but I also have a garmin rino 650t gps/hand held radio and the ear bud connection doesn’t transmit. I took 1 back for the same reason, so I managed to get 2 units that both have same problem. Now I just use the button on the side of the radio to talk. AND the electronic compass needs calibrated almost every time I go out (my dads does as well). I’m not bashing the product/company, I’m just stating there are almost always imperfections with all electronic equipment to some degree. I can live with it on my gps/radio, however I could never live with it on a bow sight.
> 
> Your bow sight needs to be the most fool proof, indestructible piece of all your equipment, which is why I shoot Truball sights.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My accutouch was the biggest unreliable piece of junk I ever bought 

Third axis would not lock down no matter how I tightened it. Even after I drilled and tapped it for a bigger screw 
$300 paper weight that couldn’t be trusted 

No electronics included

My AX3000 now that’s a different story but just cause it’s a truball and/or isn’t electronic doesn’t mean it’s fail proof


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



pabuck said:


> Your bow sight needs to be the most fool proof, indestructible piece of all your equipment, which is why I shoot Truball sights.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For what it’s worth, I have completely bent my pins on a Truball sight and a Spott Hogg sight, while in the backcountry. 

****it happens when you hunt hard. 

I honestly don’t think there is a product out there that is indestructible 

I do have a Leica range finder that is going on 10 Years now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

bhutso said:


> My accutouch was the biggest unreliable piece of junk I ever bought
> 
> Third axis would not lock down no matter how I tightened it. Even after I drilled and tapped it for a bigger screw
> $300 paper weight that couldn’t be trusted
> 
> No electronics included
> 
> My AX3000 now that’s a different story but just cause it’s a truball and/or isn’t electronic doesn’t mean it’s fail proof


Yep, you couldn’t be more right!!! The accutouch was awful, my 3rd axis did the same thing!! 

Now my Armortech and achieve are bullet proof!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jdw2920

Maybe I missed it but what model are you shooting and other than the option for green or red pins on the 999 model what is the difference


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> Yep, you couldn’t be more right!!! The accutouch was awful, my 3rd axis did the same thing!!
> 
> Now my Armortech and achieve are bullet proof!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had the AX3000 first 
When the 3 pin accutouch came out and I knew how great the 3000 was I thought I found the perfect hunting sight...... yeah they got me... the dang pin darkener slide thing fell off every 6 shots, you know all about the 3rd axis 
I really wanted it to work and I tried everything to get it to hold, to the point I could no longer return it.
Really frustrating


----------



## bloodtrail1

Watched a few videos on this sight.
ZERO interest in it.


----------



## ontarget7

jdw2920 said:


> Maybe I missed it but what model are you shooting and other than the option for green or red pins on the 999 model what is the difference


Multi arrows can be programmed, not sure on all the differences as I don’t even have an owners Manuel yet. I still have the prototype model


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

Coming from someone that owns about 8k of Garmins gps tracking equipment I can attest that they haven’t been fool proof. Various models had on going issues that wherent solvable without switching to new units. Software issues and hardwear issues. Garmin is far from perfect. Now that said i have owned other units from other companies and the Garmin systems are heads and tails better. Garmins gps tracking was an absolute game changing product for houndsmen. 
I expect this technology to have its share of growing pains like anything else and be just as big a game changer for Archery.


----------



## Shockwave31

Shane how do you feel about the durability of the sight? I.e. dropping it, dragging it through brush etc. What's the sight made out of?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

Shockwave31 said:


> Shane how do you feel about the durability of the sight? I.e. dropping it, dragging it through brush etc. What's the sight made out of?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


So far it’s been very durable. That was one of my first concerns upon originally seeing it. 

I have thrown it around a few times to see if I could change the readings, pin alignment etc, so far it’s held up to be very repeatable still. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## highwaynorth

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> I think 14.7


Where did you find that?


----------



## MNarrow

How many fixed pins can be set up? 

And how many can you have show up in the multi pin format?

And can I also just have one fixed pin show up, say if you are target practicing at 80 yards?


----------



## smithja1042

ontarget7 said:


> Personally, if it helps recover game and make clean kills, I’m all for it.
> 
> May not be for everyone but I personally feels it’s amazing what they came up with
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cool Technology, Would be fun to check it out. But knowing your equipment and practice also helps in recovery and clean kills. I do feel that this will attract the already lazy Hunters and make them even less likely to practice and get to know there equipment, and attract some that just shouldn't even be in the woods. Kind of like when Crossbows came out it attracted those guys who refuse to get to know the limitations of there equipment and in the end take more unethical shots, creating more wounded game. Just my thoughts. But however it is very innovative and IQ also launched one as well with Fixed Pins, Didnt look into anything from ATA to much yet so dont know the price point on that.


----------



## ontarget7

That’s interesting take since in my business, lazy people don’t make any money so couldn’t afford it. 

It’s a given you have to practice and be efficient with any equipment. 
Accuracy produces clean kills and any time you don’t have to guess on holdover shots would equal an accurate method of harvesting animals that we have not seen. 

Why would one not want to be as accurate as possible ?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

If you can’t shoot a bow and don’t like to practice this sight will not change a thing for you 
You can’t even calibrate it correctly if you can’t shoot 

Lazy hunters will still be buying crossbows

This sight changes nothing about the mechanics of shooting a bow 

A bad shot with the perfect yardage is still a bad shot 

A good shot to the wrong yardage is what it should eliminate.

Example: Levi Morgan (if you don’t know him, there is no one on the planet or in the history of the ASA who is better at the combination of judging yardage and shooting) shared a video where a buck snuck in on him, he didn’t have a chance to range but he is Levi Morgan so he quickly judged and shot. He judged 5 yards short and missed. This is where the sight would shine.

It’s also not an entry level sight. So joe shmo who is lazy but wants to be a hunter can either spend $350 for a 350 fps crossbow that comes completely setup that he only has to shoot 1 hour sighting in and go hunting or he can go spend $1800 on a bow and this sight to find out he can’t evrn shoot well enough to get past the setup 

This is for the benifit of serious archers 
I don’t see it any other way


----------



## ontarget7

^^^^^
They are definitely targeting more serious archers. 

Good post [emoji1360]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bassmasterjk

Predator said:


> So question on a couple of scenarios with similar challenges - deer hunting out of treestand - buck is walking behind limbs etc. and you stop him in a small hole but rangefinder is picking up limbs in front of buck rather than buck - what pin do you get? Or, spot-n-stalk on bedded muley in grass and RF is picking up grass in foreground that you know isn't at the right distance (you either need to catch an ear or nearby object or guess based on range of grass in front) - what pin do you get?
> 
> I just know it can be a pain to get my RF to give me exact right distance in situations like this or I have to adjust using judgment and don't know how you do that on the fly with a sight that picks your pin for you based on a range it gets that probably isn't accurate in certain cases.


I had similar thoughts. Thicker shots, limbs, brush, trees being in way giving false readings. Low light times, or rain, snow. Very cool, exciting to see how it turns out!


----------



## big44a4

bhutso said:


> If you can’t shoot a bow and don’t like to practice this sight will not change a thing for you
> You can’t even calibrate it correctly if you can’t shoot
> 
> Lazy hunters will still be buying crossbows
> 
> This sight changes nothing about the mechanics of shooting a bow
> 
> A bad shot with the perfect yardage is still a bad shot
> 
> A good shot to the wrong yardage is what it should eliminate.
> 
> Example: Levi Morgan (if you don’t know him, there is no one on the planet or in the history of the ASA who is better at the combination of judging yardage and shooting) shared a video where a buck snuck in on him, he didn’t have a chance to range but he is Levi Morgan so he quickly judged and shot. He judged 5 yards short and missed. This is where the sight would shine.
> 
> It’s also not an entry level sight. So joe shmo who is lazy but wants to be a hunter can either spend $350 for a 350 fps crossbow that comes completely setup that he only has to shoot 1 hour sighting in and go hunting or he can go spend $1800 on a bow and this sight to find out he can’t evrn shoot well enough to get past the setup
> 
> This is for the benifit of serious archers
> I don’t see it any other way


Exactly this. Just because I have a 135 yard pin doesn’t mean I can shoot it. Last year leading up to total Archery challenge i routinely practiced out to 135 yards and shot two 10s on the 128 yard target. A couple weeks back I shot out 90 yards for the first time since TAC and was 1 for 2 hitting a 16” block. Being proficient at long ranges isn’t as simple as just having a pin for it. Most people like myself have to always be honing that skill set. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wrathkhan

Looks like a great inovative product that will no doubt change the industry. My only hesitation is that I have had several catastrophic failures with Garmin chart plotters over the last decade. Nothing like being 60 miles out in the Gulf of Mexico with software and power problems. Very slow customer service/ repair departments as well. I finally moved on to another product. I know that ALL products fail. Just gives me room to pause. I would love to play with one for sure.


----------



## sawtoothscream

It being electronic is the turn off. Can just picture finally having that tricky old sob that dodges us every season come into range and the sight doesn't turn on or gives me the wrong pin. I know my luck, it's nonexistent lol.


----------



## solocam79

ADKHunter3 said:


> How does it preform in foggy conditions?


2 hour delay. Jk

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## sludge

ontarget7 said:


> For what it’s worth, I have completely bent my pins on a Truball sight and a Spott Hogg sight, while in the backcountry.
> 
> ****it happens when you hunt hard.
> 
> I honestly don’t think there is a product out there that is indestructible
> 
> I do have a Leica range finder that is going on 10 Years now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This also happens when you are a klutz like me. Anything can be broke or damaged when you fall on your bow because you did something stupid. Been there done that.


----------



## solocam79

Hope they will be able to keep up with orders.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## Red Eye 81

I think I am going to keep shooting my HHA's for 2018, maybe buy the Garmin in 2019. That way any issues should be worked out. Plus I just bough 5 new treestands and I am broke.


----------



## SDMac

solocam79 said:


> 2 hour delay. Jk
> 
> sent from my samsung-sm-g890a using tapatalk


lmao


----------



## OCHO505

Damn this threads go some momentum!


----------



## ontarget7

OCHO505 said:


> Damn this threads go some momentum!


The Xero is way cool bro
I actually feel I’m a little more accurate with it. 
My guess it’s the field of view being completely unobstructed. Gives your subconscious mind less to think about. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DJO

I'm sure this topic is covered but the thread is 20 pages - what is the battery life?


----------



## Outsider

DJO said:


> I'm sure this topic is covered but the thread is 20 pages - what is the battery life?


They say up to a year


----------



## brettbrett

thats cool but just curious what everyone thinks about making things sooo easy that it removes the challenge and where does it stop will they make a gps guided arrow? lol


----------



## ontarget7

I’m not sure I understand this ^^^
You still have to tune your bow
You still have to be efficient with your equipment. This sight does not change what you have to do to make the shot and do your part as an archer. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## meatman

I would wait for version 2.0, even maybe 2.5. You know there are going to be kinks and bugs to work out. Price drop to $300 for version 2.5 and Im in.


----------



## DJO

ontarget7 said:


> I’m not sure I understand this ^^^
> You still have to tune your bow
> You still have to be efficient with your equipment. This sight does not change what you have to do to make the shot and do your part as an archer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, but I understand what the guy is saying. To have the exact distance on every shot certainly takes one major hurdle out of executing a perfect shot.


----------



## ontarget7

DJO said:


> Yes, but I understand what the guy is saying. To have the exact distance on every shot certainly takes one major hurdle out of executing a perfect shot.


So we should take away rangefinders all together and have wounded deer all over the place ? 

Just asking and trying to get a better understanding of this point of view


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jacobh

Object is to hit the spot u aim at. This sight does just that. U still have to hold the pin on target and execute the shot. Shane u know no matter how great a product guys will always find a issue and hate on them


----------



## BP1992

DJO said:


> Yes, but I understand what the guy is saying. To have the exact distance on every shot certainly takes one major hurdle out of executing a perfect shot.


What??? Aren't perfect shots a good thing, or do enjoy making bad shots and losing animals?


----------



## highwaynorth

DJO said:


> Yes, but I understand what the guy is saying. To have the exact distance on every shot certainly takes one major hurdle out of executing a perfect shot.


The yardage has exactly nothing to do with executing a perfect shot. It just helps you choose the right pin. People are already
making bad shots on game at close known yardages. So much for perfect shot execution.


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

jacobh said:


> Object is to hit the spot u aim at. This sight does just that. U still have to hold the pin on target and execute the shot. Shane u know no matter how great a product guys will always find a issue and hate on them


Exactly. A dot is a dot. Doesn't matter if it's fiber or displayed.


----------



## DJO

BP1992 said:


> What??? Aren't perfect shots a good thing, or do enjoy making bad shots and losing animals?


Executing a perfect shot is critical. But I use a bow rather than a crossbow, even though it is much easier to execute a perfect shot with a crossbow. I no longer even hunt with a rifle. There is a reason some still hunt with a longbow or recurves, they appreciate the fact that you must hone your skills to harvest an animal. It takes a lot of practice. All I'm saying is that this sight eliminates one hurdle, distance calculations, in executing a shot.

I'm far from hating on this product as it seems very cool, I'm saying that I understand the posts suggesting that this sight is somehow cheating or gives the hunter an unfair advantage.


----------



## bhutso

DJO said:


> Executing a perfect shot is critical. But I use a bow rather than a crossbow, even though it is much easier to execute a perfect shot with a crossbow. I no longer even hunt with a rifle. There is a reason some still hunt with a longbow or recurves, they appreciate the fact that you must hone your skills to harvest an animal. It takes a lot of practice. All I'm saying is that this sight eliminates one hurdle, distance calculations, in executing a shot.
> 
> I'm far from hating on this product as it seems very cool, I'm saying that I understand the posts suggesting that this sight is somehow cheating or gives the hunter an unfair advantage.


So you don’t use a rangefinder? That eliminates the hurdle of distance calculations 

But yet if someone gets on here and says they wounded an animal because they didn’t have time to range and shot the wrong yardage 
That would be blasted as a shot that shouldn’t be taken 

I understand that there are those who are “old school” and don’t want technology in there hunting experience. A compound bow is unfair advantage to some 
Carbon arrows to other 
Game cams 
The list goes on....
Everyone draws the line somewhere and that’s fine 

But it’s like this for me. This isn’t going to help me in anyway other than being a more efficient shot

This won’t cause me to kill more deer 
I usually intend to take 2-3 a year no more no less 
If I can take those 2-3 by releasing 2-3 arrows a year instead of maybe having a miss or a wound in there then that’s a plus for me and for the animals 
If I can get a shot opportunity I would have had to pass and am able to make a confident ethical shot then that’s a benifit I want 

I can still hit a limb I didn’t see 
I can still spook them drawing back 
I can still make a poor shot
I can still get winded 
I can still pick the wrong stand 

I don’t see it as unfair 
The odds are still in favor of the animals by a long shot 
The have the home court advantage 

But that 2-3 times a year a shot comes along, well it gives you just that much more of a better chance of making your best shot


----------



## paulm2014

Learn how to bow hunt. Or shoot a gun.


----------



## DJO

bhutso said:


> So you don’t use a rangefinder? That eliminates the hurdle of distance calculations
> 
> But yet if someone gets on here and says they wounded an animal because they didn’t have time to range and shot the wrong yardage
> That would be blasted as a shot that shouldn’t be taken
> 
> I understand that there are those who are “old school” and don’t want technology in there hunting experience. A compound bow is unfair advantage to some
> Carbon arrows to other
> Game cams
> The list goes on....
> Everyone draws the line somewhere and that’s fine
> 
> But it’s like this for me. This isn’t going to help me in anyway other than being a more efficient shot
> 
> This won’t cause me to kill more deer
> I usually intend to take 2-3 a year no more no less
> If I can take those 2-3 by releasing 2-3 arrows a year instead of maybe having a miss or a wound in there then that’s a plus for me and for the animals
> If I can get a shot opportunity I would have had to pass and am able to make a confident ethical shot then that’s a benifit I want
> 
> I can still hit a limb I didn’t see
> I can still spook them drawing back
> I can still make a poor shot
> I can still get winded
> I can still pick the wrong stand
> 
> I don’t see it as unfair
> The odds are still in favor of the animals by a long shot
> The have the home court advantage
> 
> But that 2-3 times a year a shot comes along, well it gives you just that much more of a better chance of making your best shot


Fair, well thought out, reply


----------



## KurtVL

Garmin should make the same thing for crossbow scope and shock that market too


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

bhutso said:


> So you don’t use a rangefinder? That eliminates the hurdle of distance calculations
> 
> But yet if someone gets on here and says they wounded an animal because they didn’t have time to range and shot the wrong yardage
> That would be blasted as a shot that shouldn’t be taken
> 
> I understand that there are those who are “old school” and don’t want technology in there hunting experience. A compound bow is unfair advantage to some
> Carbon arrows to other
> Game cams
> The list goes on....
> Everyone draws the line somewhere and that’s fine
> 
> But it’s like this for me. This isn’t going to help me in anyway other than being a more efficient shot
> 
> This won’t cause me to kill more deer
> I usually intend to take 2-3 a year no more no less
> If I can take those 2-3 by releasing 2-3 arrows a year instead of maybe having a miss or a wound in there then that’s a plus for me and for the animals
> If I can get a shot opportunity I would have had to pass and am able to make a confident ethical shot then that’s a benifit I want
> 
> I can still hit a limb I didn’t see
> I can still spook them drawing back
> I can still make a poor shot
> I can still get winded
> I can still pick the wrong stand
> 
> I don’t see it as unfair
> The odds are still in favor of the animals by a long shot
> The have the home court advantage
> 
> But that 2-3 times a year a shot comes along, well it gives you just that much more of a better chance of making your best shot


Great post. To add to it we all as hunters should be ethical. We owe it to the game right?


----------



## cbowie

I'll bet cha it's in the works. No insider info, just a gut feeling.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Rick!

spike camp said:


> I’m not sure this is the case In most states....look at Illinois and allowing crossbows during the entire archery season.
> Colorado’s regular archery season is only 4 weeks too, very short.


...Along with smokepoles allowed during the third week of archery elk season. :thumbs_do


----------



## cbowie

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Great post. To add to it we all as hunters should be ethical. We owe it to the game right?


Amen...and if technology decreases the percentages of non fatal wounds and unrecovered game, then it should be embraced!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## MNarrow

I have to laugh........ATA show going on and Spot Hogg (I love Spot Hogg) has their new product: the Rack Stop which allows a quick return to a known distance without having to look at your sight. Meanwhile, in the Garmin booth........

I don't think other sight companies have to worry too much: 1) It's illegal in half of the United States. 2) It's very expensive for the average bowhunter.


----------



## MNarrow

I also have to laugh at the people dogging on this sight........the ones who use a slider sight and rangefinder. Put the two together......BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!


----------



## cbowie

cbowie said:


> Amen...and if technology decreases the percentages of non fatal wounds and unrecovered game, then it should be embraced!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


This is the argument that needs to be petitioned in the states that currently don't support this sort of product.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## K-Z0NE

bhutso said:


> So you don’t use a rangefinder? That eliminates the hurdle of distance calculations
> 
> But yet if someone gets on here and says they wounded an animal because they didn’t have time to range and shot the wrong yardage
> That would be blasted as a shot that shouldn’t be taken
> 
> I understand that there are those who are “old school” and don’t want technology in there hunting experience. A compound bow is unfair advantage to some
> Carbon arrows to other
> Game cams
> The list goes on....
> Everyone draws the line somewhere and that’s fine
> 
> But it’s like this for me. This isn’t going to help me in anyway other than being a more efficient shot
> 
> This won’t cause me to kill more deer
> I usually intend to take 2-3 a year no more no less
> If I can take those 2-3 by releasing 2-3 arrows a year instead of maybe having a miss or a wound in there then that’s a plus for me and for the animals
> If I can get a shot opportunity I would have had to pass and am able to make a confident ethical shot then that’s a benifit I want
> 
> I can still hit a limb I didn’t see
> I can still spook them drawing back
> I can still make a poor shot
> I can still get winded
> I can still pick the wrong stand
> 
> I don’t see it as unfair
> The odds are still in favor of the animals by a long shot
> The have the home court advantage
> 
> But that 2-3 times a year a shot comes along, well it gives you just that much more of a better chance of making your best shot


Couldnt agree more..!!!! What is the real problem with this sight? Someone give me a real reason?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skynight

cbowie said:


> This is the argument that needs to be petitioned in the states that currently don't support this sort of product.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Nope. We are just fine over here in Colorado.
Everything that makes archery more accessible makes tags less accessible.


----------



## GaryinOK

MNarrow said:


> I have to laugh........ATA show going on and Spot Hogg (I love Spot Hogg) has their new product: the Rack Stop which allows a quick return to a known distance without having to look at your sight. Meanwhile, in the Garmin booth........
> 
> I don't think other sight companies have to worry too much: 1) It's illegal in half of the United States. 2) It's very expensive for the average bowhunter.


That's what makes this interesting. Spot Hogg (I love Spot Hogg too) who is arguably one of the leaders in this area @ $500K in yearly revenue and a dozen employees, now being challenged by Garmin with $3 Billion in revenue and 12K employees. Talk about David and Goliath. I would say sight companies have a whole bunch to worry about. Illegal in about a 3rd of the states not half, and the majority of the states where it is illegal are out west where the hunter population is sparse. You can bet Garmin will be pushing to ease the restrictions, and has the clout and money to do so. Expensive, yep but that has not seemed to deter the hobby in the past. Bows blew right through the $1,000 mark and nobody blinked.


----------



## bhutso

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Great post. To add to it we all as hunters should be ethical. We owe it to the game right?


Absolutely!

And think about the confidence factor, confident shots are good shots
There is nothing in the back of your mind to distract from that shot 

Am I splitting the pins right? 
He took 6 steps after I ranged him was it towards me or away from me?
Is he 3 yards behind that log I Ranged earlier? Or 4 ?
Did I Range that log at 33 or 27?

All the things that flash through your mind when the shot is about to present itself.... it’s crazy 

To be able to hit that deer with the range finder at full draw, as many times as you need to, everytime it moves 
If you can’t hit the animal with the range finder for some reason hitting a target next to it and having the full confidence that that pin is the only pin you need and it’s perfect?
Well that leaves you with a confident, clear mind, with the sole focus of executing that shot


----------



## spike camp

skynight said:


> Nope. We are just fine over here in Colorado.
> Everything that makes archery more accessible makes tags less accessible.


Exactly
As cool as this sight is...it’s something that shouldn’t necessarily be encouraged in states like Colorado.

Just like the other posters comment on Colorado and the ridiculous sharing of the 3rd week of our 4 week archery season with muzzle loaders.
Iron sights only. Slap a scope on a ML and it becomes and entirely different weapon.

I’m not suggesting this new Garmin sight is a similar situation but primitive weapon seasons are just that and too many allowed technological advances will alter our seasons and not for the better.


----------



## kdog23

ontarget7 said:


> That’s interesting take since in my business, lazy people don’t make any money so couldn’t afford it.
> 
> It’s a given you have to practice and be efficient with any equipment.
> Accuracy produces clean kills and any time you don’t have to guess on holdover shots would equal an accurate method of harvesting animals that we have not seen.
> 
> Why would one not want to be as accurate as possible ?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


completely agree


----------



## bhutso

spike camp said:


> Exactly
> As cool as this sight is...it’s something that shouldn’t necessarily be encouraged in states like Colorado.
> 
> Just like the other posters comment on Colorado and the ridiculous sharing of the 3rd week of our 4 week archery season with muzzle loaders.
> Iron sights only. Slap a scope on a ML and it becomes and entirely different weapon.
> 
> I’m not suggesting this new Garmin sight is a similar situation but primitive weapon seasons are just that and too many allowed technological advances will alter our seasons and not for the better.


I totally see and respect that side of the argument 
I have no insight or knowledge to the management practices of any state but my own. Only the way I do things within the confines of those laws


----------



## digsafe

MNarrow said:


> I have to laugh........ATA show going on and Spot Hogg (I love Spot Hogg) has their new product: the Rack Stop which allows a quick return to a known distance without having to look at your sight. Meanwhile, in the Garmin booth........
> 
> I just bought an axcel accutouch. Nice sight, but last week I thought it was cutting technology. This Garmin sight makes every other sight look like I went to Home Depot and put together a sight from aluminum angle and pop rivets.


----------



## bhutso

I do have one complaint/suggestion 

The $1000 version will keep multiple arrow profiles so you can either switch between different weight arrows on one bow or switch between two bows without resighting.

So why not make it a dovetail?

Where you could set up a mount on each bow and just swap the sight a lot easier and with more precision


----------



## spike camp

bhutso said:


> I totally see and respect that side of the argument
> I have no insight or knowledge to the management practices of any state but my own. Only the way I do things within the confines of those laws


It’s very different out here.
I’ll be honest...I’ve contemplated the Xero for my Illinois Whitetail bow!
Still not sure how I feel about it though.
There is just something that makes me uncomfortable and it might stem from Colorado laws.


----------



## cbowie

It's very simple guys...technological advances represent change and change is inevitable. People and even great companies that don't embrace change and technology eventually get left behind. This is a cold hard fact and each and everyone of us has experienced this at some point in our lives. Those that oppose can continue to be mule headed, if that's what they choose but the vast majority including myself, will roll with the flow. 

I love the sight and it is a giant step in the evolutuon of archery. This kind of product gives us all a lot to look forward to as other companies push their boundaries and get out of this cycle of revamping stale technolgy. 

Keep it coming! Lol

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## cbowie

I just bought an axcel accutouch. Nice sight, but last week I thought it was cutting technology. This Garmin sight makes every other sight look like I went to Home Depot and put together a sight from aluminum angle and pop rivets.[/QUOTE]

LMAO!!! You're not alone, I did the exact same thing. This offseason I'll have to find a new home for my Axcel Accutouch Pro and HHA Kingpin.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## rockyw

If the deer starts to move will it say "recalculating"?


----------



## V-TRAIN

K-Z0NE said:


> Couldnt agree more..!!!! What is the real problem with this sight? Someone give me a real reason?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


if you have a short, or battery failure, then it is unusable.
it is a neat sight, i like it, but there are just way to many variables that can come into play to cause errors, i would not hunt with one.


----------



## roosiebull

cbowie said:


> This is the argument that needs to be petitioned in the states that currently don't support this sort of product.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


so start a petition arguing that archery hunting as it is, isn't ethical enough, so we need more technology to up our recovery rate??

BRILLIANT! i see no reason the general public wouldn't support your petition. 

i have another idea that will decrease the percentages of non fatal wounds.... have some self control and only take high percentage shots:wink:

i have no issue with the product, but call it what it is, you aren't going to BS any hunter into thinking it's a tool that makes archery hunting more ethical, it's a tool to take steps away from a normal archery shot sequence.

as it is now, you have to either guess range, or range the animal (or have points that you have already ranged) and hope that didn't cost you a shot opportunity, but if it did, that's archery hunting, it's a game of close calls.


----------



## bhutso

rockyw said:


> If the deer starts to move will it say "recalculating"?


Lol


----------



## roosiebull

spike camp said:


> It’s very different out here.
> I’ll be honest...I’ve contemplated the Xero for my Illinois Whitetail bow!
> Still not sure how I feel about it though.
> There is just something that makes me uncomfortable and it might stem from Colorado laws.


i think it does stem from Colorado laws. i think we are somewhat conditioned to have the laws we have to follow give us a sense of "right and wrong" i'm sure if you use this sight where it's legal, you will sleep just fine though:wink: just a word of caution though, in a couple years, don't be surprised if you have an overwhelming desire to sprinkle some corn around your stand...hehe


----------



## roosiebull

rockyw said:


> If the deer starts to move will it say "recalculating"?


that's funny as heck!


----------



## bhutso

roosiebull said:


> so start a petition arguing that archery hunting as it is, isn't ethical enough, so we need more technology to up our recovery rate??
> 
> BRILLIANT! i see no reason the general public wouldn't support your petition.
> 
> i have another idea that will decrease the percentages of non fatal wounds.... have some self control and only take high percentage shots:wink:
> 
> i have no issue with the product, but call it what it is, you aren't going to BS any hunter into thinking it's a tool that makes archery hunting more ethical, it's a tool to take steps away from a normal archery shot sequence.
> 
> as it is now, you have to either guess range, or range the animal (or have points that you have already ranged) and hope that didn't cost you a shot opportunity, but if it did, that's archery hunting, it's a game of close calls.


Just playing the devils advocate here: did rangefinders make people more ethnical hunters? 

Because by your own definition they are just a tool to take a step away from the shot process (judging yardage)

But I can assume from what you are saying you do use them..

Why?
Are you interested in making archery easier?
Did you want to eliminate a step from your shot process?

Or did you want to be a more ethical hunter?

Lastly does having a range finder improve your efficiency or ethics at all?
If not why use it?

The value of rangefinding is widely accepted 
Legal in 50 states as far as I can tell 

Then you attach it to the bow and everyone thinks it a negative 

Very confusing


----------



## GWFH

swampcruiser said:


> Good God, where is archery going? I hope these will be illegal for hunting.
> 
> Pretty cool, but I hate the direction we are headed. Maybe I’m being over sensitive due to my state crushing the buck population allowing these damn crossbows for 2 months out of the year.


really?
I might appreciated that opinion coming from a die hard trad guy, but not someone taking advantage of carbon risers, lighted nocks, various options of compound efficiencies.
Sounds selfish


----------



## ScopeRKT

In 5-10 years time, everyone will look back at the sights we are using now and wonder how we ever managed. Just like when cellphones came out, wasn't a big deal. Now, the Iphone has made everyone dependent on their phone. Only a matter of time.


----------



## cbowie

rockyw said:


> If the deer starts to move will it say "recalculating"?


I can read the sarcasm but I'll try to answer anyway. If I understand it correctly, you would push the range button again, which is easily located on your grip and the sight will display the new recalculated pin. You don't have to focus on the yardage displayed above the sight...you keep your focus on the animal and the pin that is displayed on the sight glass. 

Is this correct Shane?



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## kdog23

I like the concept and am eager to see how this continues to work in real life hunting situtations, sadly for me all the states I tend to hunt in (utah mostly) this tool is currently illegal.

I do feel this is one of the best advancements the industry has seen in some time....and will watch it closely over the next year or so to see how this unit fairs (does it fog up, will the electonics be reliable, etc)


----------



## roosiebull

bhutso said:


> Just playing the devils advocate here: did rangefinders make people more ethnical hunters?
> 
> Because by your own definition they are just a tool to take a step away from the shot process (judging yardage)
> 
> But I can assume from what you are saying you do use them..
> 
> Why?
> Are you interested in making archery easier?
> Did you want to eliminate a step from your shot process?
> 
> Or did you want to be a more ethical hunter?
> 
> Lastly does having a range finder improve your efficiency or ethics at all?
> If not why use it?
> 
> The value of rangefinding is widely accepted
> Legal in 50 states as far as I can tell
> 
> Then you attach it to the bow and everyone thinks it a negative
> 
> Very confusing


of course it makes it easier, it does not make hunting more ethical, that is completely a personal thing. without range finders, i wouldn't be taking any 40yd shot, but i can now. 

i am obviously interested in making hunting easier, if i wasn't i sure wouldn't be using a compound would i? neither made me a more ethical hunter, it made it easier for me to take longer shots. if i hunted traditional gear i wouldn't use a range finder, if you need to range, it's too far.

a range finder doesn't take any steps away, it adds a step to shots beyond 30 yds, i have to range the animal.....

it's not so much about this sight. i think this site draws a lot of attention because it's such an impressive piece of engineering. it's about all of the constantly evolving technology added up. where do we draw a line?

like i previously stated, i'm not against this sight, it's awesome, and it will have no negative effects on me, they will not be legal in this state.

i just don't like that excuse for some reason, that it makes archery hunting more ethical. it's basically stating you have no self control, and you will take the shot regardless, so you may as well give me the tools to make it a better shot.


----------



## bhutso

roosiebull said:


> of course it makes it easier, it does not make hunting more ethical, that is completely a personal thing. without range finders, i wouldn't be taking any 40yd shot, but i can now.
> 
> i am obviously interested in making hunting easier, if i wasn't i sure wouldn't be using a compound would i? neither made me a more ethical hunter, it made it easier for me to take longer shots. if i hunted traditional gear i wouldn't use a range finder, if you need to range, it's too far.
> 
> a range finder doesn't take any steps away, it adds a step to shots beyond 30 yds, i have to range the animal.....
> 
> it's not so much about this sight. i think this site draws a lot of attention because it's such an impressive piece of engineering. it's about all of the constantly evolving technology added up. where do we draw a line?
> 
> like i previously stated, i'm not against this sight, it's awesome, and it will have no negative effects on me, they will not be legal in this state.
> 
> i just don't like that excuse for some reason, that it makes archery hunting more ethical. it's basically stating you have no self control, and you will take the shot regardless, so you may as well give me the tools to make it a better shot.


Gotcha 
Fair points


----------



## adr1601

Am I the only one that thinks this could increase wound rates?
Here in the NE it's pretty thick mixed hardwoods and pines, and I know how many times my rf misreads a branch or something. 
I can see people abandoning the now normal process of pre-ranging and learning how to judge yardage. I'm not so great at judging yardage anymore, but I can tell when my RF misread something. 
I see "heat of the moment" type scenarios where you could get tunnel vision looking thru the sight window and not catch a misreads. Not to mention making some people over confident.
All these things happen with what were already using but I question the argument that this will reduce wound rates.

Who want the wager there's a wounded deer thread next season blaming the sight?


----------



## kicker338

Shouldn't do this but just can't resist LOL. My EZV doesn't need batteries, don't have to go through a bunch of programing, don't have to push any button to range, don't have to worry about water on the lense,
much smaller and lighter, tougher than shoe leather. I can range and shoot it accurately out to 60yds. as far as I will shoot at an animal, did I mention legal in all states and it only cost me $140. Think I will
stay with what I've got.


----------



## ontarget7

cbowie said:


> I can read the sarcasm but I'll try to answer anyway. If I understand it correctly, you would push the range button again, which is easily located on your grip and the sight will display the new recalculated pin. You don't have to focus on the yardage displayed above the sight...you keep your focus on the animal and the pin that is displayed on the sight glass.
> 
> Is this correct Shane?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


Yes, sir




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## roosiebull

kicker338 said:


> Shouldn't do this but just can't resist LOL. My EZV doesn't need batteries, don't have to go through a bunch of programing, don't have to push any button to range, don't have to worry about water on the lense,
> much smaller and lighter, tougher than shoe leather. I can range and shoot it accurately out to 60yds. as far as I will shoot at an animal, did I mention legal in all states and it only cost me $140. Think I will
> stay with what I've got.


cheater! haha

good point:wink:


----------



## bhutso

kicker338 said:


> Shouldn't do this but just can't resist LOL. My EZV doesn't need batteries, don't have to go through a bunch of programing, don't have to push any button to range, don't have to worry about water on the lense,
> much smaller and lighter, tougher than shoe leather. I can range and shoot it accurately out to 60yds. as far as I will shoot at an animal, did I mention legal in all states and it only cost me $140. Think I will
> stay with what I've got.



Lol 
I have one too 

Its like saying “you can keep your fancy cars, my skateboard gets me where I need to go”


Having shot mine many times 
I would love to see your idea of accurate at 60 yards


----------



## roosiebull

one obvious take away here is Garmin killed it this year. it takes a pretty awesome product to create this much static. good for them, impressive company, and impressive innovation. i will look forward to seeing if this sight passes the test of time, i have no doubts it will.

with a sight like this, if i bought one, having the Garmin name on it would be comforting. i don't know i would trust this concept as much if produced by other companies. it really is a super cool sight!


----------



## ScopeRKT

Wondering if this will be legal in CA. I know the Vendetta wasnt because it projected a laser to get it sighted in...


----------



## frog gigger

ScopeRKT said:


> In 5-10 years time, everyone will look back at the sights we are using now and wonder how we ever managed. Just like when cellphones came out, wasn't a big deal. Now, the Iphone has made everyone dependent on their phone. Only a matter of time.


Not everyone. I still use a corded touchtone phone to get the same results.


----------



## spike camp

roosiebull said:


> one obvious take away here is Garmin killed it this year. it takes a pretty awesome product to create this much static. good for them, impressive company, and impressive innovation. i will look forward to seeing if this sight passes the test of time, i have no doubts it will.
> 
> with a sight like this, if i bought one, having the Garmin name on it would be comforting. i don't know i would trust this concept as much if produced by other companies. it really is a super cool sight!



I have no idea as to the technology in this sight....but I’ve ownwd 4 high end Garmin GPS units and all 4 have had major issues.


----------



## spike camp

kicker338 said:


> Shouldn't do this but just can't resist LOL. My EZV doesn't need batteries, don't have to go through a bunch of programing, don't have to push any button to range, don't have to worry about water on the lense,
> much smaller and lighter, tougher than shoe leather. I can range and shoot it accurately out to 60yds. as far as I will shoot at an animal, did I mention legal in all states and it only cost me $140. Think I will
> stay with what I've got.



Yes, like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari.


----------



## cbowie

roosiebull said:


> of course it makes it easier, it does not make hunting more ethical, that is completely a personal thing. without range finders, i wouldn't be taking any 40yd shot, but i can now.
> 
> i am obviously interested in making hunting easier, if i wasn't i sure wouldn't be using a compound would i? neither made me a more ethical hunter, it made it easier for me to take longer shots. if i hunted traditional gear i wouldn't use a range finder, if you need to range, it's too far.
> 
> a range finder doesn't take any steps away, it adds a step to shots beyond 30 yds, i have to range the animal.....
> 
> it's not so much about this sight. i think this site draws a lot of attention because it's such an impressive piece of engineering. it's about all of the constantly evolving technology added up. where do we draw a line?
> 
> like i previously stated, i'm not against this sight, it's awesome, and it will have no negative effects on me, they will not be legal in this state.
> 
> i just don't like that excuse for some reason, that it makes archery hunting more ethical. it's basically stating you have no self control, and you will take the shot regardless, so you may as well give me the tools to make it a better shot.


Proponents aren't making this about "ethics"... suggestions were that because the sight reduces other steps and elimates any guess work, an individual can stay focused on executing the shot, therefore providing a secondary benefit of reducing non fatal and unrecovered game. It is that simple...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## meatman

Pretty polarized views in this thread.....

Let's ask the question another way. If this sight was $99, who here wouldnt own one because its unethical or doesnt constitute fair chase. My guess is hardly anyone.


----------



## K-Z0NE

V-TRAIN said:


> if you have a short, or battery failure, then it is unusable.
> it is a neat sight, i like it, but there are just way to many variables that can come into play to cause errors, i would not hunt with one.


V i know all of the obvius varibles was just looking for an answer from the naysayers saying its not ethical and taking away from Archery being fun?Ect.


----------



## roosiebull

meatman said:


> Pretty polarized views in this thread.....
> 
> Let's ask the question another way. If this sight was $99, who here wouldnt own one because its unethical or doesnt constitute fair chase. My guess is hardly anyone.


i wouldn't own one because they will not be legal to hunt with here.

like i said, my views aren't those of an elitist. if the sight was legal here, even with the price tag, i would probably buy one. it has some big advantages over traditional sights. that being said, i am not bummed out they will not be legal here.


----------



## midi

looks awesome...bet it has issues to start with. 

obsoleted the entire sector in one fell swoop.... the price doesn't seem that bad I would save for one over getting a new bow.

the price is sound if the laser range finder is Leupoldish quality and the sight dot is not some crap that stops working due to the vibration on shot of the string like some cheapo Chinese knock off red dot rifle bow sight..

I saw iq have brought out a rangefinder sight too (thou not feature rich just a rangefinder bolted on.


----------



## bhutso

midi said:


> looks awesome...bet it has issues to start with.
> 
> obsoleted the entire sector in one fell swoop.... the price doesn't seem that bad I would save for one over getting a new bow.
> 
> the price is sound if the laser range finder is Leupoldish quality and the sight dot is not some crap that stops working due to the vibration on shot of the string like some cheapo Chinese knock off red dot rifle bow sight..
> 
> I saw iq have brought out a rangefinder sight too (thou not feature rich just a rangefinder bolted on.


Had it not been for this I would probably be all over the IQ sight. Still an improvement over carrying a rangefinder in my view, but yeah..... now that this exsists.... the IQ isn’t on my radar


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*

Will keep you posted throughout the year, as I plan on using it exclusively on my hunting rig here in Utah. Not for seeing any issues at this point and feel it is a big enough improvement, I am sold on it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ScopeRKT

ontarget7 said:


> Will keep you posted throughout the year, as I plan on using it exclusively on my hunting rig here in Utah. Not for seeing any issues at this point and feel it is a big enough improvement, I am sold on it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are they legal in Utah? Im wondering if i can use this in California? Pretty interested. The vendetta isnt legal due to the laser they use for sighting it in. Wondering if this will be okay. Do you know if Garmin will have an approvals map?


----------



## ontarget7

Haven’t looked at regs in Cali but it’s legal in Utah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MNarrow

ScopeRKT said:


> Are they legal in Utah? Im wondering if i can use this in California? Pretty interested. The vendetta isnt legal due to the laser they use for sighting it in. Wondering if this will be okay. Do you know if Garmin will have an approvals map?


Curious on how the fixed pins work. How many can you have up at one time? And how many fixed pins can you have saved?


----------



## bhutso

ScopeRKT said:


> Are they legal in Utah? Im wondering if i can use this in California? Pretty interested. The vendetta isnt legal due to the laser they use for sighting it in. Wondering if this will be okay. Do you know if Garmin will have an approvals map?


It doesn’t have a laser if that was the only thing making the vendetta illegal


----------



## sludge

Regardless of all the other discussion on this sight. I'll probably try one out for the fun of it. I just hope Garmin's electronics on this sight improve compared to their GPS units. I won't go in the woods without my Garmin Oregon or Etrex, but the software bugs in those things sure get frustrating some times!


----------



## brendan's dad

Any word yet on the warranty? 

Shane,

If you want it tested in Extreme cold, it was a pleasant -34 C this morning when I started the truck, you can mail it here and I will give it a try. :wink:


----------



## ontarget7

Not sure on warranty 

Maybe when I’m done using it. Oh wait, that maybe never [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> Not sure on warranty
> 
> Maybe when I’m done using it. Oh wait, that maybe never [emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I explained this sight to my wife over dinner tonight 
Was even honest about the price and my desire to have one 

Even SHE thought it was awesome !!! I’m golden


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> I explained this sight to my wife over dinner tonight
> Was even honest about the price and my desire to have one
> 
> Even SHE thought it was awesome !!! I’m golden


That’s awesome [emoji1363]

No joke, it’s that good 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KurtVL

bhutso said:


> I explained this sight to my wife over dinner tonight
> Was even honest about the price and my desire to have one
> 
> Even SHE thought it was awesome !!! I’m golden


Think she can talk to my wife?


----------



## bowtechnow

V-TRAIN said:


> if you have a short, or battery failure, then it is unusable.
> it is a neat sight, i like it, but there are just way to many variables that can come into play to cause errors, i would not hunt with one.


I’m thinking if i get one I will put a small dot on the scope for 30 yards. I would be good from 0-35 if failure was to happen. Though low light I would be sol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ryjax

ontarget7 said:


> Not sure on warranty
> 
> Maybe when I’m done using it. Oh wait, that maybe never [emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seriously that good, huh? I’ve watched all your videos on it, and they have me wanting one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

I am on the email list waiting to order ....selling both my hunting sights after Sunday season is over...super pumped about this sight


----------



## ontarget7

Ryjax said:


> Seriously that good, huh? I’ve watched all your videos on it, and they have me wanting one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes sir

Given the opportunity, I really don’t see how someone could not like the Xero. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

Ryjax said:


> Seriously that good, huh? I’ve watched all your videos on it, and they have me wanting one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I said the exact same thing. Videos were awesome!! 

Any chance the price comes down when they hit the retailers? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



bowtechnow said:


> I’m thinking if i get one I will put a small dot on the scope for 30 yards. I would be good from 0-35 if failure was to happen. Though low light I would be sol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is a good idea! Maybe a white vinyl dot!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

KurtVL said:


> Think she can talk to my wife?


Ha ha 
I was not expecting her reaction

She even reasoned out that it was not that bad of a price when considering it was a sight and a rangefinder 
I fell in love with her all over again

But then again ...... it might be a trap


----------



## KurtVL

bhutso said:


> Ha ha
> I was not expecting her reaction
> 
> She even reasoned out that it was not that bad of a price when considering it was a sight and a rangefinder
> I fell in love with her all over again
> 
> But then again ...... it might be a trap


 https://youtu.be/4F4qzPbcFiA

Your probably right


----------



## Willyboys

tag


----------



## KurtVL

So arrow profiles come on both models or just the A1 ? 

The idea of having a sight that has multiple arrows for is sweet


----------



## bhutso

KurtVL said:


> So arrow profiles come on both models or just the A1 ?
> 
> The idea of having a sight that has multiple arrows for is sweet


A1 only


----------



## bigbucks170

A1i only


----------



## bhutso

bigbucks170 said:


> A1i only


^
That’s what I meant


----------



## roosiebull

bhutso said:


> I explained this sight to my wife over dinner tonight
> Was even honest about the price and my desire to have one
> 
> Even SHE thought it was awesome !!! I’m golden


that's a win!


----------



## roosiebull

pabuck said:


> I said the exact same thing. Videos were awesome!!
> 
> Any chance the price comes down when they hit the retailers?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i wouldn't expect much. it honestly sounds like a reasonable price for what it is, i doubt it will be much, if any below msrp..... just buy one, you're gonna eventually, get it over with :wink:


----------



## Willyboys

I have scanned this thread and paid attention to what I thought was information on the sight. It took several sessions due to the ethics arguments taking up space. So with that excuse for maybe missing something, I have a question for Shane or someone who really knows the answer. 

Does this rangefinder pick up the last target in a brushy or thickly wooded condition? In other words, does it not pick up foreground interference which would result in an error in ranging?


----------



## johnno

Living in Australia - and having no restrictions whatsoever on the majority of species of feral game - can someone please explain to me why, as I gather laser range finders are legal in all states, why this device, which is merely a laser range finder, would be illegal in some states?


----------



## bhutso

johnno said:


> Living in Australia - and having no restrictions whatsoever on the majority of species of feral game - can someone please explain to me why, as I gather laser range finders are legal in all states, why this device, which is merely a laser range finder, would be illegal in some states?


Some states have rules that state an electronic devise cannot be used on a bow


----------



## bhutso

bhutso said:


> Some states have rules that state an electronic devise cannot be used on a bow


Some say you can’t even use a sight light, and there may be a state or two left that won’t even allow lighted nocks 


Game laws here, are often vaguely written and end up excluding something that was never really in the spirit of the law when it was written.


----------



## ScopeRKT

Everyone who says hunting has already become easy...I invite you out to California, our success rate is terrible.


----------



## Rugby

The warranty is one year, same as their other products.

The product is very good, amazing how it sets the "sight pin" for the distance ranged. Very easy to use and not too heavy.
The guys on the stand said it was two years in development with up to 10 engineers working on.


----------



## bowhunter9

Looks like an awesome product! Like others have mentioned how would it work in a wooded area dense cover scenario? I would think the range finder would range limbs, leaves, grasses, etc... I know it has a fixed pin option but that seems like a lot of thinking involved when the moment of truth arrives? I really like it but unless you are hunting in wide open places I’m not sure it would be beneficial... I would love to have one but would like to see or hear from uses in timber/dense cover scenarios. Thanks for the reviews Shane! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Smokeyr67

rockyw said:


> If the deer starts to move will it say "recalculating"?











It looks like your target is moving, would you like help with that?


----------



## razortusk

I ordered the A1i yesterday through local pro shop. I was told late February ship date on the sight.


----------



## pabuck

razortusk said:


> I ordered the A1i yesterday through local pro shop. I was told late February ship date on the sight.


If you don’t mind me asking, what did you pay?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KR930

Seen a lot of "things" come into the archery industry and try to advance the game over the last 40 years....but one thing that hasn't gotten any better is MOST<(key word) peoples ability to handle shots under pressure! 

I guess what I'm trying to say is most of you that would want this type of product couldn't accurately steadily aim and execute good a shot at the distances you would need something like this for. 

What might help is learning how to get closer to what you're going to be shooting at!:wink:


----------



## bassinbob

Just wondering why this sight is getting so much more attention then the IQ I am looking at both will buy one. What is making this sight better then the IQ.


----------



## ontarget7

KR930 said:


> Seen a lot of "things" come into the archery industry and try to advance the game over the last 40 years....but one thing that hasn't gotten any better is MOST<(key word) peoples ability to handle shots under pressure!
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is most of you that would want this type of product couldn't accurately steadily aim and execute good a shot at the distances you would need something like this for.
> 
> What might help is learning how to get closer to what you're going to be shooting at!:wink:


I believe you missed a huge benefit to this sight, close yardage’s [emoji6]

https://youtu.be/HuMWTObOLQo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

check out youtube and watch all the videos on the Garmin and the options it has ...arrow counter,vibration record,target location,
change pin color ,set to different arrows ,fix pins,etc


----------



## ShootingABN!

bassinbob said:


> Just wondering why this sight is getting so much more attention then the IQ I am looking at both will buy one. What is making this sight better then the IQ.


You buying the IQ or Garmin?


----------



## offsmith0322

I think it is a brilliant idea by Garmin. I am not completely sure how many states it is illegal in, but I know it is illegal in multiple. IDC what anyone tells me, I will not pay $800 for a a bow sight when my bow is $800-$1000. I got a double pin spot hogg fast eddie for $150. A vortex range finder for $200. $450 difference and I can put it into the bow some other way. I think it is a genius product however but it is definitely not for me.


----------



## ontarget7

bassinbob said:


> Just wondering why this sight is getting so much more attention then the IQ I am looking at both will buy one. What is making this sight better then the IQ.


I have not tested the other sight so I’m only going off of what I have seen. 

For me personally the huge advantages to the Garmin are

1) a night and day difference in field of view. It doesn’t matter if your selecting 1 pin or multiple fixed all you see is a dot or dots. The IQ you see standard pins plus a large blocky piece up in the top right corner. 

2) multiple bow and arrow configurations on the Garmin A1i

3) Infinite pin brightness, thus also adjusting size of the dot for varying situations 

4) I’ve bent pins before in the field so not having pins at all is another benefit 

5) Then you have a multitude of other techy options with GPS tracking 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bassinbob

ShootingABN! said:


> You buying the IQ or Garmin?


Still trying to make up my mind.


----------



## NCBuckNBass

ontarget7 said:


> I believe you missed a huge benefit to this sight, close yardage’s [emoji6]
> 
> https://youtu.be/HuMWTObOLQo
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree.... Inside of ten yards is tougher than 25 yards. I've had a few straight down shots aiming between the shoulder blades less than one yard with no other shot option before or after. It's a hard shot remembering where to hold! Can this site deal with that?


----------



## ontarget7

NCBuckNBass said:


> Agree.... Inside of ten yards is tougher than 25 yards. I've had a few straight down shots aiming between the shoulder blades less than one yard. Can this site deal with that?


Absolutely, it auto calculates the angle and holdovers on those short yardage’s and puts a dot directly at the right spot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bassinbob

ontarget7 said:


> I have not tested the other sight so I’m only going off of what I have seen.
> 
> For me personally the huge advantages to the Garmin are
> 
> 1) a night and day difference in field of view. It doesn’t matter if your selecting 1 pin or multiple fixed all you see is a dot or dots. The IQ you see standard pins plus a large blocky piece up in the top right corner.
> 
> 2) multiple bow and arrow configurations on the Garmin A1i
> 
> 3) Infinite pin brightness, thus also adjusting size of the dot for varying situations
> 
> 4) I’ve bent pins before in the field so not having pins at all is another benefit
> 
> 5) Then you have a multitude of other techy options with GPS tracking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok thanks. Have you shot the sight in low light yet? and how did it do can you see the dot real good. And is it led meening can you read the numbers real good at low light.


----------



## MNarrow

bassinbob said:


> Just wondering why this sight is getting so much more attention then the IQ I am looking at both will buy one. What is making this sight better then the IQ.


Unless $400 makes or breaks your budget.......the Garmin is years ahead in tech than IQ.


----------



## ShootingABN!

ontarget7 said:


> Absolutely, it auto calculates the angle and holdovers on those short yardage’s and puts a dot directly at the right spot.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is some super cool TECH! I've used Garmin watches (running) for years. Great products. Good luck.


----------



## NCBuckNBass

ontarget7 said:


> Absolutely, it auto calculates the angle and holdovers on those short yardage’s and puts a dot directly at the right spot.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's impressive. Straight down is a tough shot to remember where to hold and not intuitive for me at all.


----------



## bassinbob

Not looking at the money just looking at what I think is better for me and the way I hunt. I shoot a single pin and love it so I like that part about the Garmin.


----------



## pabuck

bassinbob said:


> Just wondering why this sight is getting so much more attention then the IQ I am looking at both will buy one. What is making this sight better then the IQ.


The IQ sight only gives you the yardage. If the target is at say 35 yards then you need to pin gap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## razortusk

The shop wasn't sure on price yet SRP is $1,000.00 A1i and $800.00 on the A1. They thought the A1i would fall in the 899.00 to $999.00 range. They ordered 3 of the A1's for stock. They thought the range on those would be in the $699.00 to $799.00 range.


----------



## bassinbob

Does any one know how the accuracy is on this unit. (+ or -1 yard) And does the yardage numbers light up so you can see them at low light hunting.


----------



## razortusk

KR930 said:


> Seen a lot of "things" come into the archery industry and try to advance the game over the last 40 years....but one thing that hasn't gotten any better is MOST<(key word) peoples ability to handle shots under pressure!
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is most of you that would want this type of product couldn't accurately steadily aim and execute good a shot at the distances you would need something like this for.
> What might help is learning how to get closer to what you're going to be shooting at!:wink:


Lol! I have shot long bows, recurves and compounds since 1977. I shot tounements for years, shot for a local company and I was provided a Mathews shooter bow for those years. I have whitetail entries in P & Y and have harvested numerous animals over the years. I still enjoy shooting all of my bows especially my long bows.

I ordered the sight yesterday! Haha! 

Sight will go on an RX1 Turbo.


----------



## bassinbob

Just found out with the 3rd axis on my haa sight the Garmin weighs the same.


----------



## cbowie

bassinbob said:


> Just found out with the 3rd axis on my haa sight the Garmin weighs the same.


Both A1 & A1i weigh 14.7 oz, correct?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## ontarget7

bassinbob said:


> Ok thanks. Have you shot the sight in low light yet? and how did it do can you see the dot real good. And is it led meening can you read the numbers real good at low light.


The dot has infinite control of brightness. You would be able to see the dot in complete darkness as well as the LCD screen. It also has complete adjustment. 

Yes, I have shot it in low light and don’t see any issues 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

Do you have to pay in full when you place your order or when it comes in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## highwaynorth

cbowie said:


> Both A1 & A1i weigh 14.7 oz, correct?
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


Good question. For some reason the people keep dancing around an answer. The guy in the Garmin video said roughly the same as
some other brand of unnamed sight that is hefty. WTH kind of answer is that ? I can't believe Ontarget 7 hasn't put this thing
on a scale and unless I missed it somewhere he hasn't said anything either.


----------



## bhutso

KR930 said:


> Seen a lot of "things" come into the archery industry and try to advance the game over the last 40 years....but one thing that hasn't gotten any better is MOST<(key word) peoples ability to handle shots under pressure!
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is most of you that would want this type of product couldn't accurately steadily aim and execute good a shot at the distances you would need something like this for.
> 
> What might help is learning how to get closer to what you're going to be shooting at!:wink:


I kinda feel the exact opposite 

I think most people who would be willing to spend this kind of money on a sight already know how to shoot, have killed a pile of animals using various different setups and can see the benefit of a completely uncluttered sight picture, and always having the correct yardage.

There are a pile of threads on here about fixed pins verse single pins 

What I’ve seen stated over and over is people in general regardless of their shooting ability are more accurate with a single pin 
You can dial the exact yardage
All you see is that one pin so nothing takes up your field of view 

Yet so many do not utilize this more accurate way of shooting while Hunting for reasons such as 
What if the deer moves?
What if you don’t have time to move the pin?
What if the deer sees you doing it?

So what is there answer? 
They shoot fixed pins knowing it is less accurate but accounts for the what if’s.
Or they take a slider and set it at 25 yards and guess/get to know all the hold overs 

The 3 pin slider address some of these issues but not pin gapping or pin clutter 

A sight such as this has been the logical answer to the debate between sliders and fixed pins since sliders became popular in Hunting 

Just took this long for the technology to be brought out, and Garmin has got it dead right


As far as this only being useful for long distance? Well when your target is 23 yards away it gives you a 23 yard pin 
I would rather have that exact number than to have a 20 and 30 to guess between 

If it’s 5 yards you get a 5 yard pin 
Not trying to remember if you need to use 30-40-or 50 

This sight should not extend your effect range 
Just give you an exact point of aim inside your effective range 


Another side benifit I see is speed and trajectory will be less important 

Many (including myself) want at least enough speed to cover 20-25/30 yards with one pin 
You don’t need that now 

People want more speed to minimize the mistake if the shot is taken to a wrong yardage by 3-4 yards 
You don’t need that now 

I will personally care much less about speed with this sight 
I don’t think I will be alone in that


----------



## bhutso

If I sound kinda crazy in love with this sight 

It’s because I had this exact concept and idea in mind Many many years ago, the first time I shot a single pin I had this idea 

I talked to people I knew who do computer stuff because I have no clue how this stuff works and know one believed it was possible 

I didn’t want to be an inventor or make a bunch of money with it. I know nothing about engineering or business 
It was just an idea and 
I just wanted it for myself lol 
Been looking at the bowranger since last year and would have gotten one of those in a heartbeat but this is way better
Now that someone finally did it and it’s exactly what I always wanted 
Well..... I’m pretty pumped


----------



## razortusk

pabuck said:


> Do you have to pay in full when you place your order or when it comes in?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I went to shop yesterday afternoon to order the A1i, when I asked about them they informed me that they had ordered 1-A1i and 3-A1's earlier in the day for stock. I told them to put my name on the A1i.


----------



## KurtVL

If garmin would’ve priced:

A1 $350
A1i $550

People would still complain but the other sight manufacturers would be totally screwed 

If garmin can get second generation of this sight down to that price range it’s over for many of the smaller companies

Furthermore

Those that ***** about price being equal to your bow

In the rifle scope business

Price you pay for rifle the glass on top should be as much or more, just sayin


----------



## toppinpro

i would be real curious on how it would work i thick fog or the rain very cool concept


----------



## cbowie

toppinpro said:


> i would be real curious on how it would work i thick fog or the rain very cool concept


It'll work like any other sight that you can add a lens to. I have an Axcel Accutouch Pro with a 2 power lens, I use year round and I've never had a single issue with rain or fog. I've been using sights like this for several years now with zero problems.

This sight is not a concept anymore...this is the real deal!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## bigbucks170

range finder might not work..but you could always pull up your fixed pins in fog or rain...I have to range things now before
its raining hard or fog mist....


----------



## ontarget7

highwaynorth said:


> Good question. For some reason the people keep dancing around an answer. The guy in the Garmin video said roughly the same as
> some other brand of unnamed sight that is hefty. WTH kind of answer is that ? I can't believe Ontarget 7 hasn't put this thing
> on a scale and unless I missed it somewhere he hasn't said anything either.


Give you an idea, the HHA King Pin TE is a little over 2oz heavier




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

KurtVL said:


> If garmin would’ve priced:
> 
> A1 $350
> A1i $550
> 
> People would still complain but the other sight manufacturers would be totally screwed
> 
> If garmin can get second generation of this sight down to that price range it’s over for many of the smaller companies
> 
> Furthermore


This is exactly what Garmin needs to do, because at $999 & $799 too many people won’t give it a try, but at $350 & $550 I’m in.

Most of the deer i shoot at are less than 40 yards away. A 3 pin sight works for me on a bow shooting 315fps. My 20 yard pin works just fine out to 27 yards and my 30 is good up to 35. Why pay $400-$600 more, but I would pay $150 more!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pabuck

toppinpro said:


> i would be real curious on how it would work i thick fog or the rain very cool concept


I would as well, especially fog. I shot the OPA 3d tournament last year in the fog and rangefinders would not work!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> I would as well, especially fog. I shot the OPA 3d tournament last year in the fog and rangefinders would not work!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What did you do?

Select a yardage using the number the sign told you?
Then manually set your sight on that yardage?

That’s my guess

This sight does that too


On top of having fixed pins 
You can select a yardage number with the single pin without even using the range finder


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> This is exactly what Garmin needs to do, because at $999 & $799 too many people won’t give it a try, but at $350 & $550 I’m in.
> 
> Most of the deer i shoot at are less than 40 yards away. A 3 pin sight works for me on a bow shooting 315fps. My 20 yard pin works just fine out to 27 yards and my 30 is good up to 35. Why pay $400-$600 more, but I would pay $150 more!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’ve already heard some say that Garmin doesn’t want to mass produce these.
That they released it to create a buzz just to sell the licensing for the product to someone else to make 
This is rumor I don’t know it’s validity 

But think about this .... you get what you pay for. Heaven forbid they sell it to feradyne and we end up with the nocturnal senario again 
You know where they take a really good lighted nock, use cheaper materials and still charge more

I would rather pay for what this sight is now than for a cheaper, less well built version later 

Buy once, cry once


----------



## pabuck

bhutso said:


> I’ve already heard some say that Garmin doesn’t want to mass produce these.
> That they released it to create a buzz just to sell the licensing for the product to someone else to make
> This is rumor I don’t know it’s validity
> 
> But think about this .... you get what you pay for. Heaven forbid they sell it to feradyne and we end up with the nocturnal senario again
> You know where they take a really good lighted nock, use cheaper materials and still charge more
> 
> I would rather pay for what this sight is now than for a cheaper, less well built version later
> 
> Buy once, cry once


Thought the same about my Garmin Rino but it has a glitch every time in the field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> Thought the same about my Garmin Rino but it has a glitch every time in the field.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That may be true 

But I would believe Garmin has a much better chance of making this reliable than spot hogg 
This isn’t in other sight companies wheel house 

Also this sight doesn’t require being connected to gps satellites to work 

I don’t know what kind of glitch you have but if you feel Garmins $1000 version will be unreliable 
What makes you think surelocs $500 version would be sound?


----------



## highwaynorth

ontarget7 said:


> Give you an idea, the HHA King Pin TE is a little over 2oz heavier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, that's impressive being 2 oz lighter than the king pin. Thanks for weighing in on that.:thumbs_up


----------



## rockyw

I have watched few videos on this sight and I have to admit that's pretty impressive. I agree with an above statement, bring the price down and they will sell a lot of these sights.


----------



## bowhunter9

I’ve still yet to see a response on how it would work in the “woods”. I like it but I know just trying to range a deer as he’s walking through the timber doesn’t work well most of the time as it picks up limbs, trees, leaves, etc.... I understand you can switch to fixed pin mode but if I’m gonna have to do that every time I’m in the woods I’d just use a regular 1 pin sight like I currently use. I see where it’d be beneficial to the western hunters that hunt wide open places for sure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ryjax

bowhunter9 said:


> I’ve still yet to see a response on how it would work in the “woods”. I like it but I know just trying to range a deer as he’s walking through the timber doesn’t work well most of the time as it picks up limbs, trees, leaves, etc.... I understand you can switch to fixed pin mode but if I’m gonna have to do that every time I’m in the woods I’d just use a regular 1 pin sight like I currently use. I see where it’d be beneficial to the western hunters that hunt wide open places for sure
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does your rangefinder work in the woods? I see no reason this won’t. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bowhunter9

Ryjax said:


> Does your rangefinder work in the woods? I see no reason this won’t.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes it “works” but not when trying to range a “deer” most the time! Hard to pick up the animal with Trees, limbs, etc... I don’t usually range the deer before I shoot... I range trees and other landmarks when I get into the stand. Which is why I said I can see where it would be good for the western hunter. So I guess I just answered my own question. Wouldn’t work for me unless I just wanted to leave it on fixed pin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Karbon

I thought this was the most over-hyped item at the show. 

Neat? -sure. But it's not as easy as you think to range and aim...


----------



## bhutso

bowhunter9 said:


> Yes it “works” but not when trying to range a “deer” most the time! Hard to pick up the animal with Trees, limbs, etc... I don’t usually range the deer before I shoot... I range trees and other landmarks when I get into the stand. Which is why I said I can see where it would be good for the western hunter. So I guess I just answered my own question. Wouldn’t work for me unless I just wanted to leave it on fixed pin
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, I would venture to say if ranging deer is not an option where u hunt 
This is not worth it to you


----------



## wbates

Is the warranty only a year? If so not interested. If it has a better warranty than a year I would be interested


----------



## trial153

Yea, you going to have to watch the QC and see if there is any glitches on this for awhile. I know i have a box full of Garmin Tracking colars that where unreliable junk that where never corrected by garmin


----------



## Rick!

KurtVL said:


> If garmin would’ve priced:
> 
> A1 $350
> A1i $550
> 
> People would still complain but the other sight manufacturers would be totally screwed
> 
> If garmin can get second generation of this sight down to that price range it’s over for many of the smaller companies
> 
> Furthermore
> 
> Those that ***** about price being equal to your bow
> 
> In the rifle scope business
> 
> Price you pay for rifle the glass on top should be as much or more, just sayin


Folks using _hope_ that the sight will drop 50% in a few years are going to be disappointed and will never pony up.

The only thing close in rifle optics is the Burris Eliminator - how's that working out for coming down in price?

This is like arguing about unknown or known 3D. Unknown folks dig their heels in pretty hard and never will change. 

I've got several rifles where the glass is more than the rifle cost, that's just the cost of playing the game at a little higher level.

Kudos to Garmin for bringing this to market. 

Unlike the guy who has defeated the technology of 4 Garmin units, my 76CSx has never let me down...


----------



## Ryjax

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



bowhunter9 said:


> Yes it “works” but not when trying to range a “deer” most the time! Hard to pick up the animal with Trees, limbs, etc... I don’t usually range the deer before I shoot... I range trees and other landmarks when I get into the stand. Which is why I said I can see where it would be good for the western hunter. So I guess I just answered my own question. Wouldn’t work for me unless I just wanted to leave it on fixed pin
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you can’t get a rangefinder to work on deer moving through where you are shooting then it would be too thick to shoot an arrow... I hunt some thick stuff and never had an issue with ranging except in the fog.. troll on..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

It took me one trip to the basement to find at least $1000 worth of archery equipment I don’t need if I buy this


----------



## bowhunter9

Ryjax said:


> If you can’t get a rangefinder to work on deer moving through where you are shooting then it would be too thick to shoot an arrow... I hunt some thick stuff and never had an issue with ranging except in the fog.. troll on..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not trolling by any means. I see you are from Arkansas also so we possibly hunt some of the same type stuff depending on what part of the state. I like the concept and I’m sure it would work for a lot of people I would just like to see it working in wooded situations vs open terrain. Like I said I think I answered my own question earlier. Carry on....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

Karbon said:


> I thought this was the most over-hyped item at the show.
> 
> Neat? -sure. But it's not as easy as you think to range and aim...


It’s super simple, takes about 3-4 seconds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ryjax

bowhunter9 said:


> I’m not trolling by any means. I see you are from Arkansas also so we possibly hunt some of the same type stuff depending on what part of the state. I like the concept and I’m sure it would work for a lot of people I would just like to see it working in wooded situations vs open terrain. Like I said I think I answered my own question earlier. Carry on....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s very possible we do. I would say you are right. open terrain would be 100x better, but I don’t think it wouldn’t work in wooded terrain. 
I will likely talk myself into buying one at some point, and will let you know how the testing goes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bowhunter9

Ryjax said:


> It’s very possible we do. I would say you are right. open terrain would be 100x better, but I don’t think it wouldn’t work in wooded terrain.
> I will likely talk myself into buying one at some point, and will let you know how the testing goes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

bowhunter9 said:


> I’m not trolling by any means. I see you are from Arkansas also so we possibly hunt some of the same type stuff depending on what part of the state. I like the concept and I’m sure it would work for a lot of people I would just like to see it working in wooded situations vs open terrain. Like I said I think I answered my own question earlier. Carry on....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s not going to work any different than any quality range finder. It matches up consistency wise and how it picks up things just like my Leica. 

It’s not some magical rangefinder that will read through brush and leaves. 

I’ve hunted in some very thick areas and I just wait for clean shooting lanes and then business as usual 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Karbon

yeah, I know. I played with one at the show.

I personally didn't like it nor the activation button on the riser.


----------



## ontarget7

Karbon said:


> yeah, I know. I played with one at the show.
> 
> I personally didn't like it nor the activation button on the riser.


Didn’t they have it in front of the grip ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ScopeRKT

Found out they will be legal in CA. Have one on order!


----------



## power

This is real game changer!!!


----------



## bhutso

ScopeRKT said:


> Found out they will be legal in CA. Have one on order!


How did you order? Best I can find is being on the email when available list


----------



## pabuck

ontarget7 said:


> It’s super simple, takes about 3-4 seconds
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hope it’s faster than 3-4 seconds to get me a dot on the screen!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> I hope it’s faster than 3-4 seconds to get me a dot on the screen!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shane does it his own way 
Ranging before the shot like with a traditional rangefinder 

Me I would draw, press and hold the button as I came to anchor 
The sight will start ranging and continue ranging until you let off 

So anchor, hit my target, let off the button and the pin pops up

I think like anything it would take some getting used too 
With practice I think you can range and shoot as fast as you want


----------



## ontarget7

pabuck said:


> I hope it’s faster than 3-4 seconds to get me a dot on the screen!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol
thats immediate

Went through the whole process in one of my videos. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ScopeRKT

S&S archery has them and you can place your order.


----------



## bhutso

ScopeRKT said:


> S&A archery has them and you can place your order.


Thanks !!!!


----------



## bhutso

Oh it s and s archery and I only see the A1
Looking for the A1i


----------



## bhutso

Nevermind found it


----------



## ScopeRKT

bhutso said:


> Oh it s and s archery and I only see the A1
> Looking for the A1i


https://www.sandsarchery.com/Garmin-Xero-Bow-Sight-A1i-p/garminxerobowsighta1i.htm


----------



## TheKingofKings

Nice.


----------



## pabuck

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



ScopeRKT said:


> https://www.sandsarchery.com/Garmin-Xero-Bow-Sight-A1i-p/garminxerobowsighta1i.htm


You can get 10% off by signing up for email promotions!!

I just don’t want to pay $899 for something I won’t get until spring 2018.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> You can get 10% off by signing up for email promotions!!
> 
> I just don’t want to pay $899 for something I won’t get until spring 2018.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm 
Where did u find that?


----------



## gotsig

ScopeRKT said:


> Found out they will be legal in CA. Have one on order!


Please explain.


----------



## Bullhound

Karbon said:


> I thought this was the most over-hyped item at the show.
> 
> Neat? -sure. But it's not as easy as you think to range and aim...


yeah, but some will continue to sell sell sell!!!!


----------



## ScopeRKT

gotsig said:


> Please explain.


Talked to Garmin and some others. Its not projecting any light onto the animal, its on the sight. Because the Vendetta had a lazer needed to get it sighted into your pins is what made it illegal. There are no regs in regards to battery operated devices on bows in California.


----------



## gotsig

ScopeRKT said:


> Talked to Garmin and some others. Its not projecting any light onto the animal, its on the sight. Because the Vendetta had a lazer needed to get it sighted into your pins is what made it illegal. There are no regs in regards to battery operated devices on bows in California.


Thank you sir.


----------



## pabuck

bhutso said:


> Hmm
> Where did u find that?


It popped up automatically 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spike camp

bhutso said:


> Shane does it his own way
> Ranging before the shot like with a traditional rangefinder
> 
> Me I would draw, press and hold the button as I came to anchor
> The sight will start ranging and continue ranging until you let off
> 
> So anchor, hit my target, let off the button and the pin pops up
> 
> I think like anything it would take some getting used too
> With practice I think you can range and shoot as fast as you want



Probably been answered many times..how long does the pin stay projected on the lens?


----------



## bhutso

spike camp said:


> Probably been answered many times..how long does the pin stay projected on the lens?


It’s mentioned that you can set the time for fixed pins 
But I’m not sure I’ve seen or heard how long the pin stays on after ranging 

I kind of assume that would be customizable as well but not sure


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> Shane does it his own way
> Ranging before the shot like with a traditional rangefinder
> 
> Me I would draw, press and hold the button as I came to anchor
> The sight will start ranging and continue ranging until you let off
> 
> So anchor, hit my target, let off the button and the pin pops up
> 
> I think like anything it would take some getting used too
> With practice I think you can range and shoot as fast as you want


I actually use it both ways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> It’s mentioned that you can set the time for fixed pins
> But I’m not sure I’ve seen or heard how long the pin stays on after ranging
> 
> I kind of assume that would be customizable as well but not sure


I haven’t checked as to how long but I can say I know it’s longer than you can hold at full draw. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> I actually use it both ways
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s just what I’ve seen in the video 

When you say it takes 3-4 seconds I’m assuming you are referring to pre ranging 
If you incorporate it into your shot I can see it adding very little if any time to the shot
With practice of course


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> That’s just what I’ve seen in the video
> 
> When you say it takes 3-4 seconds I’m assuming you are referring to pre ranging
> If you incorporate it into your shot I can see it adding very little if any time to the shot
> With practice of course


It’s about the same amount either way. Even in the video I’m taking my time for video purposes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

Just a tip for those purchasing one. It is definitely an asset to get efficient using the range finder at brace. This will save on the amount of time you have to hold at full draw in certain circumstances 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dnv23

I checked it out at the show and thought it was very innovative. It would be fun to play with on a 3D range or in the back yard where the target doesn't move but I don't think I would hunt with it. Too much could go wrong and I don't shoot much past 40 yards at game anyway. I don't want any kind of lens in my scope that could collect moisture either. I can see why people are excited about it and would want one but it's not something I would drop a grand on.


----------



## joffutt1

dnv23 said:


> I checked it out at the show and thought it was very innovative. It would be fun to play with on a 3D range or in the back yard where the target doesn't move but I don't think I would hunt with it. Too much could go wrong and I don't shoot much past 40 yards at game anyway. I don't want any kind of lens in my scope that could collect moisture either. I can see why people are excited about it and would want one but it's not something I would drop a grand on.


Or run a stick through the "lens".


----------



## ontarget7

The lens runs at an angle like a 45*. I played with this quite a bit and it deflects things quite well without harming the lens. It is also set back in and more towards the middle of the housing to prevent most of those scenarios 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ScopeRKT

ontarget7 said:


> The lens runs at an angle like a 45*. I played with this quite a bit and it deflects things quite well without harming the lens. It is also set back in and more towards the middle of the housing to prevent most of those scenarios
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is the lens plastic or glass?


----------



## pseshooter84

Agree with ontarget7, definitely an asset at full draw . Can't wait for some reviews on this thing . Want to know if it's legal in NY and if so, hopefully it doesn't get banned. I doubt it would considering x bows are now legal.. Great innovation. The future is here for sure after watching a ton of footage from this year's ATA show. Crazy. Simply crazy

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Willyboys

Question for those that may know - do you think the A1i with its multi arrow memory capability would work well with multiple bows? Would it be practical to have one sight and switch it over to other bows? I am assuming that the coarse set up positions would need to be recorded for each bow.


----------



## pabuck

Willyboys said:


> Question for those that may know - do you think the A1i with its multi arrow memory capability would work well with multiple bows? Would it be practical to have one sight and switch it over to other bows? I am assuming that the coarse set up positions would need to be recorded for each bow.


It would think it would be fairly easy to do, all you would need to do (assuming you are using the same arrows on each bow from year to year) is sight the bow in for say 30 yards using the manual elevation and windage adjustments. Once you have 30 sighted in, check your 40 yard setting and do the same thing. Once you do that it should be ready to roll. This is the same process I use for my 3d and hunting bow. As long as I keep the poundage and the arrows the same from year to year, all I have to do is adjust the rest for the smaller diameter hunting arrows, slap my 5 pin hunting sight on and adjust the rest until I get it right. but the pin gap should never change from year to year.


----------



## ontarget7

ScopeRKT said:


> Is the lens plastic or glass?


Not sure what it actually is but some sorta plexiglass 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## K-Z0NE

pseshooter84 said:


> Agree with ontarget7, definitely an asset at full draw . Can't wait for some reviews on this thing . Want to know if it's legal in NY and if so, hopefully it doesn't get banned. I doubt it would considering x bows are now legal.. Great innovation. The future is here for sure after watching a ton of footage from this year's ATA show. Crazy. Simply crazy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


These new sights should be fine in new york in the regs it says "no laser sights" what does a laser sight do? A laser sight projects a laser on the target and the fired projectile impacts where the laser is on the target so if on these new sights the laser is only used for ranging and setup purposes whether you can see it or not why shouldnt they be legal. The state needs to define "laser sight". I think the garmin is awesome cant wait to get my hands on one.


----------



## ontarget7

The only down side for me personally is the long range shooting. I will be able to get out to 90 yards maybe 95 on one of my setups. This is plenty for hunting situations but love to shoot out to 100+ throughout the year. For this reason I don’t see me getting rid of my HHA King Pin TE’s. They will remain a mainstay for years to come. 

I just have to add the Garmin Xero since I see a lot of value in so many other hunting situations 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paul Payne

Not having read thru 27 pages....is there a chance garmin will add a vblock system so the sight can be used on more than 1 bow and is there a chance they will make it mountable on xbows


----------



## bhutso

Paul Payne said:


> Not having read thru 27 pages....is there a chance garmin will add a vblock system so the sight can be used on more than 1 bow and is there a chance they will make it mountable on xbows


I think the dovetail or v bracket would be good addition but then I can see running into issues switching between bows anyway
Like my target setup is a lot different then my Hunting setup and would most likely need to be gang adjusted when switching between the two.


----------



## Paul Payne

bhutso said:


> I think the dovetail or v bracket would be good addition but then I can see running into issues switching between bows anyway
> Like my target setup is a lot different then my Hunting setup and would most likely need to be gang adjusted when switching between the two.


But I thought the more expensive model would save two setups??


----------



## bhutso

Paul Payne said:


> But I thought the more expensive model would save two setups??


It will 

I think it will save 4-5 actually 

Not saying switching between bows won’t work 
May have to make some marks on the gang adjust to maintain zero when switching back and forth is all 

Running two or three arrow setups out of the same bow is also possible 
That’s probably the way I will use it


----------



## bhutso

Like I’m shooting a 35 inch ata Hunting bow and a 40 inch 3D bow 

The difference in geometry means it’s probably going to need to be gang adjusted to fit each bow specifically 

One riser may flex more than the other and effect Windage 
Just one thing that could make switching between bows more complex than taking the sight off and putting on another bow and switching arrow settings


----------



## Buckfevr

Sorry if I missed it, what's the dot/pin size?


----------



## pseshooter84

I would love to add one of these to a crossbow. It would almost be unfair at that point, hahaha. I need all the help I can get here in NY though. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## digsafe

Is this a 1000.00 product of <—-<China?

America first >—————>


----------



## COArrow

digsafe said:


> Is this a 1000.00 product of <—-<China?
> 
> America first >—————>


I believe this forum “AT” you are posting on is foreign owned by the way.


----------



## digsafe

It’s still a valid question.


----------



## Rick!

digsafe said:


> It’s still a valid question.


Call them up and let us know.


----------



## brtesite

Gee, no more missed targets


----------



## COArrow

digsafe said:


> It’s still a valid question.


To who?


----------



## digsafe

To all, Shane started this thread so the general question would be to him. He has the box that the sight came in and it will indicate “made in ?”. For a 1000.00 sight i would like to know.


----------



## KurtVL

I’ve found the weakness that would preclude me from buying it (well besides the initial price)

After moving to single pin slider for so many years, I center up everything when I shoot

So having dots up high in sight window would be hard for me to relearn


----------



## Toxo-Philite

ontarget7 said:


> The only down side for me personally is the long range shooting. I will be able to get out to 90 yards maybe 95 on one of my setups. This is plenty for hunting situations but love to shoot out to 100+ throughout the year. For this reason I don’t see me getting rid of my HHA King Pin TE’s. They will remain a mainstay for years to come.
> 
> I just have to add the Garmin Xero since I see a lot of value in so many other hunting situations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, in your opinion, the Xero won't be able to outrange the HHA Kingpin TE? 
That is what I currently use on my HTR and can get up to 115 yds. before I run out of yardage. I do shoot cock vane down though.
I would be really interested to know the Xero's actual sight range. I know the range finder side is supposed to go to 300 yds. with reflective targets.
Long range target shooting is all I want to use the Xero for, so any help in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,


----------



## OCHO505

Toxo-Philite said:


> So, in your opinion, the Xero won't be able to outrange the HHA Kingpin TE?
> That is what I currently use on my HTR and can get up to 115 yds. before I run out of yardage. I do shoot cock vane down though.
> I would be really interested to know the Xero's actual sight range. I know the range finder side is supposed to go to 300 yds. with reflective targets.
> Long range target shooting is all I want to use the Xero for, so any help in this regard will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,


This is all relative to speed more than anything... If you bow is super slow your not going to get the range a fast bow would get simply due to you confined to the travel of the lens/glass... With a slider you can roll the sight down so more yardage is achievable...

The idea is more accurate hunting shots which most people would say is under 60 yards. Even if you enjoy shooting far just for practice unfortunately it will be tough to get there will a slower bow on this sight.


----------



## Toxo-Philite

OCHO505 said:


> This is all relative to speed more than anything... If you bow is super slow your not going to get the range a fast bow would get simply due to you confined to the travel of the lens/glass... With a slider you can roll the sight down so more yardage is achievable...
> 
> The idea is more accurate hunting shots which most people would say is under 60 yards. Even if you enjoy shooting far just for practice unfortunately it will be tough to get there will a slower bow on this sight.


Thanks for responding to my question. I agree that it is relative to the speed of the bow. As Ontarget7 has been shooting both the Xero and the HHA Kingpin TE, it would be good to know if at his specs, the Kingpin is capable of more range over the Xero, and by how much. I am hoping the Xero will be able to get more range, as the dots go all the way down to the edge of the scope, instead of staying in the center of the circle like HHA's pin.


----------



## bigbucks170

your peep hight will have a lot to do with how far you can shoot....


----------



## bhutso

Toxo-Philite said:


> Thanks for responding to my question. I agree that it is relative to the speed of the bow. As Ontarget7 has been shooting both the Xero and the HHA Kingpin TE, it would be good to know if at his specs, the Kingpin is capable of more range over the Xero, and by how much. I am hoping the Xero will be able to get more range, as the dots go all the way down to the edge of the scope, instead of staying in the center of the circle like HHA's pin.


Thing is with the Xero you only have the length of the Housing 
So most slider sights will have more vertical adjustment than the length of the xero housing 

Having said that, for me 70-80 yards is plenty

The xero in my mind is more comparable to the max distance with say a 2” fixed pin housing


----------



## Toxo-Philite

bigbucks170 said:


> your peep hight will have a lot to do with how far you can shoot....


Thanks, that is true, I have avoided changing the peep height so I can shoot 10-115 yds. on the same setting.


----------



## eltaco

bhutso said:


> Like I’m shooting a 35 inch ata Hunting bow and a 40 inch 3D bow
> 
> The difference in geometry means it’s probably going to need to be gang adjusted to fit each bow specifically
> 
> One riser may flex more than the other and effect Windage
> Just one thing that could make switching between bows more complex than taking the sight off and putting on another bow and switching arrow settings


That’s correct. You will need to move the sight, re-shoot your 20, and realign the curved dovetails for the laser. Lock them down and you’ll be back up and running without having to resight in all of the distances. 

Not a simple swap and shoot... but a swap, 5mins of adjustment, and shoot.


----------



## Chipmunk1212!

I’ve watched several videos on it. It’s pretty aick


----------



## GaryinOK

Hate to bring this one back up to the top, but OnTarget7 do you have a feel for how this thing might work with a verifier? I struggle seeing a pin sight and am not sure how I would do with the readout and the dot's. Any thoughts?


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



GaryinOK said:


> Hate to bring this one back up to the top, but OnTarget7 do you have a feel for how this thing might work with a verifier? I struggle seeing a pin sight and am not sure how I would do with the readout and the dot's. Any thoughts?


I struggle with regular pins some time myself just do to the glow or halo effect I get. 

I talk about it in this video clip. By adjusting the dot brightness infinitely I can get rid of that Halo effect I normally get. 
I do feel a verifier could be used to adjust any clarity of the dot as well, just like fiber optics 
https://youtu.be/vLRMLFGVjlo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Willyboys

Ontarget7, I'm not sure I saw a comment from you on the ability to have one A1i sight to use on more than one bow. A practicality question more than anything. Your thoughts?


----------



## HuntFX

Really want to see that perform well on the coldest day up here in Canada... electronics + cold = malfunctions 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## danbear

ShootingABN! said:


> I like it. Hopefully the price will go down after a year.
> 
> I wonder how the lens and electronics will hold up in weather, like cold?


I agree with you in this


----------



## Ancient Archer

About time! I've been waiting for something like this for quite a while, as I suppose many others have too. Yet, $800 is more than I can afford. Oh well, give it time & the price will come down.


----------



## ChaosDemigod03

I like the idea a lot!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## TPG

danbear said:


> I agree with you in this


Garmin isn't particularly well known for dropping their prices until something is being discontinued for a newer/better model.


----------



## TPG

HuntFX said:


> Really want to see that perform well on the coldest day up here in Canada... electronics + cold = malfunctions
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Garmin stuff seems to do as well as could be expected for electronics in the cold.


----------



## Jeler

Wow, that is awesome! I was aware that Garmin made scopes but not for a bow! Looks great!


----------



## Jeler

Looks great!


----------



## bhutso

Ordered last night 

Was told they would ship second week of February


----------



## terrydan

Now, we just need an arrow or broadhead that deposits a chip in the animal tracking its location after the shot :laugh:


----------



## bhutso

terrydan said:


> Now, we just need an arrow or broadhead that deposits a chip in the animal tracking its location after the shot :laugh:


Been around for quite awhile actually

https://pro-tracker.com


----------



## HuntFX

TPG said:


> Garmin stuff seems to do as well as could be expected for electronics in the cold.


Ok but most stuff you can put in a chest pocket warm it and what not. But also I mean if my range finder doesn’t work I can still judge the yardage based on experience and have my set pins always there, but correct me if I’m wrong but the dot shows up after it takes the yardage?... so if that range finder doesn’t work cause it’s freezing cold out that means no dot is going to show up... so now you are left with no yardage and no pin just a circle... I’m just saying there is a lot of room for error IMO 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

You can always choose to have your fixed pins show up even if you couldn’t range a target 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jdw2920

bhutso said:


> Ordered last night
> 
> Was told they would ship second week of February


Where did you order from? I was told first of March I hope your closer to being right lol


----------



## bhutso

jdw2920 said:


> Where did you order from? I was told first of March I hope your closer to being right lol


God’s country archery out of North Carolina 

I take any projected shipping date with a grain of salt on new a release, but judging by the price they have on them I’m thinking they placed a big order at the ATA 
So may be a priority customer for Garmin 
$856 shipped for the A1i


----------



## jmclfrsh

I have an A1i on order as well. Was told they would be in sometime in February. My local Pro Shop has 10 coming. 

The watch or GPS unit that works with it are both in the $600 range as well.


----------



## rancilio

Any thoughts on how the Xero would work shooting peepless with an Anchor Sight? I would assume if the Xero works with a peep, it should be no problem with an Anchor Sight. Better yet, I’d like to hear that the Xero eliminates the need for a peep with some sort of Anchor Sight-like mechanism incorporated in the design.


----------



## bhutso

rancilio said:


> Any thoughts on how the Xero would work shooting peepless with an Anchor Sight? I would assume if the Xero works with a peep, it should be no problem with an Anchor Sight. Better yet, I’d like to hear that the Xero eliminates the need for a peep with some sort of Anchor Sight-like mechanism incorporated in the design.


I can let you know better when I get it but I shot peepless for many years 
It sure sounds like the rangefinder works a lot like a retina lock to me 
Red dot you center up in a green circle 
Either way i believe it will work just fine peepless with or without the anchor sight 
May even be better without a peep for me
Will likely try it both ways


----------



## Wyoming Shooter

I took a brief look at the current WY G&F Regulations and WY statutes. I don't see anything that would prohibit use of this sight. My Garmin products have performed very well. I wear a Garmin Fenix 5 daily. It's a great watch with many useful features for field use. Best, ELN.


----------



## V Man

I am undecided on where I stand with all of this new technology. I like things that help for a quick and efficient kill that doesn't leave an animal suffering, but also at times wonder how far it goes before it really takes some of the fun and skill away of matching yourself against a deer in its own environment? I am with others who stated to each their own, I am not one to judge how one person chooses to hunt vs. another. We all get to make our own decisions (laws providing) on how we want to go about hunting. This topic will be like the always fun one of bait vs. no bait lol. Question though, is the only difference between the two the dual colored pins? $200 seems like a steep upcharge for a second color.


----------



## hoytDuo44

I think this is some serious bologna. It's one thing to make things a little bit easier and take some steps to make sure you have a clean kill and recovery, and I'm all for some ideas. But I think that this bow sight is just a little too far. I'm glad that this is illegal in oregon and I hope it continues to be. With all this new technology coming out, it's bringing so many wanna be bowhunters out of the woodwork. I used to be proud to be a bowhunters, living the lifestyle by the motto "if it was easy, everyone would do it". But now that is an obsolete phrase because it's getting to the point that it's making it almost impossible to NOT kill something. Taking all the skill, ethics, and hard work out of the whole thing. I say thumbs down and I'll never buy a Garmin product again. 
My 0.02$

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## jdw2920

bhutso said:


> jdw2920 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you order from? I was told first of March I hope your closer to being right lol
> 
> 
> 
> God’s country archery out of North Carolina
> 
> I take any projected shipping date with a grain of salt on new a release, but judging by the price they have on them I’m thinking they placed a big order at the ATA
> So may be a priority customer for Garmin
> $856 shipped for the A1i
Click to expand...

Killer deal I gave 949 for mine.


----------



## bhutso

V Man said:


> I am undecided on where I stand with all of this new technology. I like things that help for a quick and efficient kill that doesn't leave an animal suffering, but also at times wonder how far it goes before it really takes some of the fun and skill away of matching yourself against a deer in its own environment? I am with others who stated to each their own, I am not one to judge how one person chooses to hunt vs. another. We all get to make our own decisions (laws providing) on how we want to go about hunting. This topic will be like the always fun one of bait vs. no bait lol. Question though, is the only difference between the two the dual colored pins? $200 seems like a steep upcharge for a second color.


Second color, multiple arrow configuration, gps ability, and feedback on each shot 

My only question as to the rest of your post is 
Why do so many feel this is the one that takes it too far?

Range finders have been around for years 
And as long as they have been popular in Hunting the practice of pre ranging has been around 

So it’s hard to set your single pin at 25 or have your fixed pins all ready when the deer comes to a spot you have a pretty solid idea of how far it is and all you have to do is draw and shoot, but if you ranged it at full draw and got a pin for that yardage then it’s too easy?

It’s (IMO) a more precise way to do what almost everyone is already doing 

Just my opinion 
You are entitled to yours but I’ve seen it over and over and I gotta say there are a ton more products that make Hunting much easier than this and no one bats an eye


----------



## bhutso

hoytDuo44 said:


> I think this is some serious bologna. It's one thing to make things a little bit easier and take some steps to make sure you have a clean kill and recovery, and I'm all for some ideas. But I think that this bow sight is just a little too far. I'm glad that this is illegal in oregon and I hope it continues to be. With all this new technology coming out, it's bringing so many wanna be bowhunters out of the woodwork. I used to be proud to be a bowhunters, living the lifestyle by the motto "if it was easy, everyone would do it". But now that is an obsolete phrase because it's getting to the point that it's making it almost impossible to NOT kill something. Taking all the skill, ethics, and hard work out of the whole thing. I say thumbs down and I'll never buy a Garmin product again.
> My 0.02$
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Your .02$ rattled around in your head and broke something 

See above post and give me a reason


I’ve been bow hunting 22 years and never gone a single year without a kill
So from my point of view 22 years ago bowhunting was so easy it was impossible to not kill something 

But now my purchase of this sight means I’m not a true hunter?


----------



## kicker338

Wow 29 pages and still going strong. It will be interesting to see what the opinion of this sight will be when guys have used them for a while.


----------



## V Man

bhutso said:


> Second color, multiple arrow configuration, gps ability, and feedback on each shot
> 
> My only question as to the rest of your post is
> Why do so many feel this is the one that takes it too far?
> 
> Range finders have been around for years
> And as long as they have been popular in Hunting the practice of pre ranging has been around
> 
> So it’s hard to set your single pin at 25 or have your fixed pins all ready when the deer comes to a spot you have a pretty solid idea of how far it is and all you have to do is draw and shoot, but if you ranged it at full draw and got a pin for that yardage then it’s too easy?
> 
> It’s (IMO) a more precise way to do what almost everyone is already doing
> 
> Just my opinion
> You are entitled to yours but I’ve seen it over and over and I gotta say there are a ton more products that make Hunting much easier than this and no one bats an eye


Like I said I am not sure where I stand on this or that I think this is the "one" that took it too far. I agree that it offers similar functions that most of us are using already just more efficient and with fewer steps. Personally I kind of like it but also have some old school roots that have me questioning. Probably more inner turmoil that I shouldn't have put on here to be dissected lol. Thanks for the response!


----------



## bhutso

kicker338 said:


> Wow 29 pages and still going strong. It will be interesting to see what the opinion of this sight will be when guys have used them for a while.


I’ll be sure to do a full comparison (for myself) not to share 
Between this and the ezv (a sight which claims to do the same thing and is not as precise which no one has an ethical disagreement with)


----------



## ScopeRKT

I pre-ordered one and cancelled shortly after. I love the tech and the fact they are legal here in CA is even better. What stopped be was this being rev 1. Ive been burned many a times by having the latest and greatest, only for rev 2 to be head and shoulders above the first rev. I will purchase rev 2 for sure.


----------



## bhutso

V Man said:


> Like I said I am not sure where I stand on this or that I think this is the "one" that took it too far. I agree that it offers similar functions that most of us are using already just more efficient and with fewer steps. Personally I kind of like it but also have some old school roots that have me questioning. Probably more inner turmoil that I shouldn't have put on here to be dissected lol. Thanks for the response!


You are fine 
Your post didn’t bother me at all 
I’m just trying to rationalize in my head what the reason is that some feel this (obviously some are more against it than others) take it too far 

Thank you for the response 
As you said it’s up to everyone to choose


----------



## bhutso

ScopeRKT said:


> I pre-ordered one and cancelled shortly after. I love the tech and the fact they are legal here in CA is even better. What stopped be was this being rev 1. Ive been burned many a times by having the latest and greatest, only for rev 2 to be head and shoulders above the first rev. I will purchase rev 2 for sure.


Definitely a thought to consider 
My patience just isnt there this time 
I do hope I don’t get burned lol


----------



## Browtine22

My range finder died a couple of weeks ago. I was planning on a sight upgrade anyway. I have one on order.


----------



## Osage

The idea it will reduce lost and wounded game is probably bogus. Loses are what each individual archer determines they will be. This is about allowing you to shoot further, and/or have a leg up on other hunters who aren't buying success. Does it have a feature that blocks shots beyond a certain distance so that you can retain your current ranges and bank all the advantages in the less wounded and lost game account? Based on where we are today vs 40 years ago, I don't see most people using that. They will determine the level of risk they are willing to allow the animal to take when they try to shoot it, and then take all the advantage of the extended range capabilities for themselves. People who only want to improve the sporting and ethical proposition in hunting never have to spend a dime. This isn't about that.


----------



## deerbum

Years from now we'll probably see rangefinders that can recognize deer hair like a spectrogram image. True "brush" penetrating radar. The technology is already there, not quite sure it could be put in a small package yet.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Osage said:


> The idea it will reduce lost and wounded game is probably bogus. Loses are what each individual archer determines they will be. This is about allowing you to shoot further, and/or have a leg up on other hunters who aren't buying success. Does it have a feature that blocks shots beyond a certain distance so that you can retain your current ranges and bank all the advantages in the less wounded and lost game account? Based on where we are today vs 40 years ago, I don't see most people using that. They will determine the level of risk they are willing to allow the animal to take when they try to shoot it, and then take all the advantage of the extended range capabilities for themselves. People who only want to improve the sporting and ethical proposition in hunting never have to spend a dime. This isn't about that.


It doesn’t give you a pin for anything farther than you practiced 

Any other sight do that?

Also how does this give you a chance to take longer shots?
Doesn’t a handheld rangefinder do that?
If you can afford a rangefinder did you buy success?

Who doesn’t have time or the ability to move to range when the animal is over 40 yards away?


Still waiting for a good reason to dislike it as it pertains to the taking of game.

All I hear is people disliking it just to dislike it 
Or reasons that don’t reflect reality


Ps I totally agree with the rest of it 

This sight will not change or alter a persons ethics 
But I see a huge benifit for myself 
It makes things easier for me, I’ve done things the hard way 
I’ve done things the easy way as they have gotten easier (and it’s still hard)

The hard way doesn’t have to be the right way 
And if it is then we need to outlaw 20 years worth of improvements
Not just this sight


----------



## Osage

bhutso said:


> You are fine
> Your post didn’t bother me at all
> I’m just trying to rationalize in my head what the reason is that some feel this (obviously some are more against it than others) take it too far
> 
> Thank you for the response
> As you said it’s up to everyone to choose


I don't see this as taking things too far. It isn't a rifle in bow season. Many people hunt on their own property in a way where it isn't a zero sum game for their neighbours. At some point higher kill numbers mean shorter seasons for guys who are, say, shooting primitive. Some people just like gadgets, other people like buying an advantage, other people like cool technology. But the idea this is all about better game recovery I have to laugh at. You still have to take shots within your ability. 

All I can see this doing is adding greater certainty as to what one has to guesstimate. Not in terms of yardage guessing, but overall likelihood of wounding. Right now range estimation is something humans have difficulty with. So that translates into not only bad range guesses, but also bad guesses about how much risk one is putting on the animal with one's shot. Better range guesses will translate into longer shots, no net change in the risk to animals. But the ability to determine the risk put on the animal will also improve very slightly. That is a gain, probably very slight, but it could lower risk to animals. Or course over time that will also get taken in more yards or inches.


----------



## bhutso

Osage said:


> I don't see this as taking things too far. It isn't a rifle in bow season. Many people hunt on their own property in a way where it isn't a zero sum game for their neighbours. At some point higher kill numbers mean shorter seasons for guys who are, say, shooting primitive. Some people just like gadgets, other people like buying an advantage, other people like cool technology. But the idea this is all about better game recovery I have to laugh at. You still have to take shots within your ability.
> 
> All I can see this doing is adding greater certainty as to what one has to guesstimate. Not in terms of yardage guessing, but overall likelihood of wounding. Right now range estimation is something humans have difficulty with. So that translates into not only bad range guesses, but also bad guesses about how much risk one is putting on the animal with one's shot. Better range guesses will translate into longer shots, no net change in the risk to animals. But the ability to determine the risk put on the animal will also improve very slightly. That is a gain, probably very slight, but it could lower risk to animals. Or course over time that will also get taken in more yards or inches.


For myself I see it as the best of a fixed pin and the best of a slider sight combined

Threads all over here about which on too use, every one contains something to the effect of “I shoot better with a single pin but I don’t want to risk it if the deer moves”. So people choose to be less accurate, in favor of not missing a shot opportunity.
A simple search will confirm this for anyone who takes time to look.

As far as a persons ethics? We agree, people are going to do what they are going to do regardless



The main thing I have trouble rationalizing is some come here and say it’s going to increase efficiency to the point all the deer are gone 
And at the same time it’s not going to decrease wounded game 
I don’t think the two concepts can exist together at the same time


----------



## kicker338

ScopeRKT said:


> I pre-ordered one and cancelled shortly after. I love the tech and the fact they are legal here in CA is even better. What stopped be was this being rev 1. Ive been burned many a times by having the latest and greatest, only for rev 2 to be head and shoulders above the first rev. I will purchase rev 2 for sure.


Done that too and been burned too LOL. Some new ideas items work great and some don't. This is not a knock on the garmin sight ,i'm sure the range finding is spot on but here in Idaho it's a mute point, no electronic bow mounted devices allowed and that wont chg. any time soon. I like and don't deny it, the EZV sight.It's certainly not a garmin but gets the job done. It did take me about 6mths of reading all
the comments pro and con before getting one.

Some new gimmicks work outstanding despite the hype, got a My Pillow for fun a yr. ago that's the best pillow I've ever owned.


----------



## bhutso

kicker338 said:


> Done that too and been burned too LOL. Some new ideas items work great and some don't. This is not a knock on the garmin sight ,i'm sure the range finding is spot on but here in Idaho it's a mute point, no electronic bow mounted devices allowed and that wont chg. any time soon. I like and don't deny it, the EZV sight.It's certainly not a garmin but gets the job done. It did take me about 6mths of reading all
> the comments pro and con before getting one.
> 
> Some new gimmicks work outstanding despite the hype, got a My Pillow for fun a yr. ago that's the best pillow I've ever owned.


Dang it 

Now I want a my pillow 
Thanks a lot lol


----------



## Bullhound

kicker338 said:


> Done that too and been burned too LOL. Some new ideas items work great and some don't. This is not a knock on the garmin sight ,i'm sure the range finding is spot on but here in Idaho it's a mute point, no electronic bow mounted devices allowed and that wont chg. any time soon. I like and don't deny it, the EZV sight.It's certainly not a garmin but gets the job done. It did take me about 6mths of reading all
> the comments pro and con before getting one.
> 
> Some new gimmicks work outstanding despite the hype, *got a My Pillow *for fun a yr. ago that's the best pillow I've ever owned.


wife got me one. hate the dang thing.................... bout broke my neck!


----------



## Spiderbob

I think its pretty cool, just not something I would feel the need for at this point in time. Bows are so accurate and the pins are so close it very hard to miss under 30 yards, Maybe out west where that shots are 40+ I can see this being an awesome tool. Time will tell for sure.


----------



## austellerik

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> I think it's a matter of time and these types of technology will be legal in all states. I know some people on here was involved n getting the Leupold legalized in their state. I think one day they will all understand it's for the better. My understanding is a lot of states that it's illegal in don't even fully understand the concept. They just hear electronic and automatically throw it out the door. It took the push directly from hunters in certain states to get certain states to understand the concept and ultimately getting legalized.


What makes you think they will be legal eventually? Montana doesn't even allot lighted nocks. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## oldman570

If it is like some other Garmin products, it will have to a newer upgrade of info every year. Sound like another gimmick to get people with more money to spend for more nonessential items that most people have a instinct of how to make a shot and time to mark off yardages before hunting from a stand.


----------



## bhutso

oldman570 said:


> If it is like some other Garmin products, it will have to a newer upgrade of info every year. Sound like another gimmick to get people with more money to spend for more nonessential items that most people have a instinct of how to make a shot and time to mark off yardages before hunting from a stand.


That’s exactly what it is 
Not sure how I killed So many deer without it 

Can’t wait to demolish the population next year 
Got unlimited tags anyway

Hate to hear I may have to plug it in to the computer once a year to update 
That’s just going to cut into my killing time


----------



## Daniel75

Whaack said:


> You're 100% right. I'm not standing on any high horse saying that "I'm better" or that I shoot a long bow. I'm simply stating that archery, by its nature, is meant to be a primitive and close range method of harvest in a hunting scenario.
> 
> There is a spectrum in the hunting world. On one end is a guy with a spear, and on the other end is the new fad of ultra-long range hunting with high powered rifles. Between those two extremes are an infinite amount of variations of how people hunt.
> 
> I'm simply saying that this new sight, which is cool, takes us further towards the high powered long range rifle part of the spectrum vs. the guy with a spear part of the spectrum. My thought is that is not the direction that a sport that is about close ranges with "primitive" equipment should be going.
> 
> Whether you like long range archery or long range rifle hunting, if you are pushing the limits of gear I would argue your more interested in the challenge of shooting vs. the challenge of getting game close.
> 
> That said, I know I will lose this argument with most on AT so carry on.


The sight doesn’t change the close range aspect of archery one bit, it’s literally no different than a HHA dial single pin that’s accurate out to 100+ yards with the exception of it being a digital pin and combining the rangefinding and aiming of the sight into one step. There are so many factors that go into a shot at a game animal: wind drift, alertness of the animal, fixed vs mechanical, velocity of the arrow, proper range verification, angle of the shot, etc. Too many variables for me to shoot at a game animal over 40 yards with a modern compound and be confident I’ll make an ethical shot. But those are my own limitations, your mileage may vary. 

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, that’s why we’re all here, to read other people’s opinions and express our own. But it’s a slight bit hypocritical to state that this is too far on the technology end of the spectrum and your: rangefinder, fiber optic pins, modern compound bow, advanced camouflage, etc is not. In fact, looking at your profile, seems everything you own is Sitka (excellent BTW). If you’re such a traditionalist, shouldn’t you be in a flannel jacket and blue jeans? Tell me, how “primitive” is your Hoyt Carbon Defiant lol? How primitive is that HHA Kingpin? It’s not, it’s all designed to make the shot easier, quieter, keep you warmer and make you a better hunter which equates to better/more ethical shots at game. I think that’s the Garnin idea here. It’s less movement and less clutter, better sight picture and a more accurate shot. It’s still about the Indian and not the bow/equipment. If you can’t make a 80 yard shot with your bow and sight of choice right now, owning the Garmin isn’t going to magically change that. It still comes down to shot execution. 

You’re right, a bunch of people on here are not going to agree with you and, respectfully, that’s because your point of view/argument against the sight is weak at best and hypocritical.


----------



## spike camp

I’m not understanding the distance argument as this Garmin sight won’t reach anywhere close to the distance I can get out of my SpotHogg.


----------



## arrowm

bhutso said:


> I’ll be sure to do a full comparison (for myself) not to share
> Between this and the ezv (a sight which claims to do the same thing and is not as precise which no one has an ethical disagreement with)


Bring it brother!! They are advertising for us, LOL....get out there in real conditions, cold, glare from sun....EZV will get it done in 1/4 the time!!


----------



## Dusty Britches

At first I was like, "wow, that's pretty cool!" but now I'm thinking that most deer that are wounded aren't because the archer didn't know the distance - it's because they placed the arrow too far back or forward.

I can shoot 3D pretty comfortably out to 60-70 yards. 50 yards without ranging. I normally would not think about taking a shot further than 40 yards when hunting. I suspect I could be awfully tempted to take a 50-60 or even 70 yard shot if I had this on my bow. I mean think about it - how often do we let down when we are target shooting and the bow or something isn't quite right? We don't let down and we make a bad shot and then think, I knew I should have let down... But, now let's say I'm at full draw, I've got the range and the pin set where I think would be perfect. Would i really let down if I see the range is 53 yards? Would I really let down if I don't feel everything is perfect? I don't know, but it is certainly something to think about.


----------



## Dusty Britches

Oh yeah, and this will not be legal in Texas. Nor will any animal be considered for P&Y with this sight.


----------



## ontarget7

Dusty Britches said:


> Oh yeah, and this will not be legal in Texas. Nor will any animal be considered for P&Y with this sight.


It’s legal in Texas 
For what it’s worth it’s legal in way more states than it’s not. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

arrowm said:


> Bring it brother!! They are advertising for us, LOL....get out there in real conditions, cold, glare from sun....EZV will get it done in 1/4 the time!!


You know me Aaron 
Believe me I will put it through it’s paces just like the ezv 
Hunted with a Range Rover power dot for two years 
So I know from experience the effects of cold, and glare and real conditions on a lens (a cheap lens at that)

But I won’t put your product down it does what it says 

it’s just not in the same class as this


----------



## bhutso

Daniel75 said:


> The sight doesn’t change the close range aspect of archery one bit, it’s literally no different than a HHA dial single pin that’s accurate out to 100+ yards with the exception of it being a digital pin and combining the rangefinding and aiming of the sight into one step. There are so many factors that go into a shot at a game animal: wind drift, alertness of the animal, fixed vs mechanical, velocity of the arrow, proper range verification, angle of the shot, etc. Too many variables for me to shoot at a game animal over 40 yards with a modern compound and be confident I’ll make an ethical shot. But those are my own limitations, your mileage may vary.
> 
> You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, that’s why we’re all here, to read other people’s opinions and express our own. But it’s a slight bit hypocritical to state that this is too far on the technology end of the spectrum and your: rangefinder, fiber optic pins, modern compound bow, advanced camouflage, etc is not. In fact, looking at your profile, seems everything you own is Sitka (excellent BTW). If you’re such a traditionalist, shouldn’t you be in a flannel jacket and blue jeans? Tell me, how “primitive” is your Hoyt Carbon Defiant lol? How primitive is that HHA Kingpin? It’s not, it’s all designed to make the shot easier, quieter, keep you warmer and make you a better hunter which equates to better/more ethical shots at game. I think that’s the Garnin idea here. It’s less movement and less clutter, better sight picture and a more accurate shot. It’s still about the Indian and not the bow/equipment. If you can’t make a 80 yard shot with your bow and sight of choice right now, owning the Garmin isn’t going to magically change that. It still comes down to shot execution.
> 
> You’re right, a bunch of people on here are not going to agree with you and, respectfully, that’s because your point of view/argument against the sight is weak at best and hypocritical.


Glad Im Not the only one


----------



## arrowm

E-Z-V Sight is 50 state legal and ten times quicker...been preaching "get it right" not guess. Automatically sending your arrow to the correct entry point from any angle punching both lungs in seconds..."Punch tags, not buttons!"


----------



## 858097

Washington State law is very simple. Nothing that runs on electricity can be mounted to your bow. Folks keep coming up with new stuff, and the Fish and Game folks keep modifying the law as necessary to keep electrical gadgets off the bow. I use chem lights to illuminate the pins in my bow sight, for now. I expect they will outlaw them as well as soon as they catch-on.


----------



## bhutso

arrowm said:


> E-Z-V Sight is 50 state legal and ten times quicker...been preaching "get it right" not guess. Automatically sending your arrow to the correct entry point from any angle punching both lungs in seconds..."Punch tags, not buttons!"


If your position is “get it right and not guess”. Speed of the shot would be non factor and you would appreciate the value of this sight 
Not be intimidated or judgemental of it 
It’s not your competition when you consider price range 

If I were you I would be more concerned with the iq sight and the subsequent versions that will undoubtedly come out now that are more affordable

It’s legal in my state 
That’s all that matters to me

Give me a week or two with it and I’ll have the wife roll out a target and I’ll shoot it at unknown distance like your video 

I bet I’m plenty fast 
And in the bullseye


----------



## Osage

bhutso said:


> It doesn’t give you a pin for anything farther than you practiced
> 
> Any other sight do that?


Not sure what you are saying here, does it cap you in some way? If all you mean is you still get to determine how far you can shoot, my contention is that people will shoot further. Based on archery since the technical period, that is what happens. Some probably can't if they have, say, a stand they regularly use that presents a 20 yard shot. But everyone gets this will help in unknown yardage situations, that is why there is all the western states talk in the thread.

Also, this will make it possible not to practice at all. Back in the 90s, I used to shoot IBO, and hunt using a compound for a few years because I was in a huge city and had nowhere to practice. I used to laser to work on my range finding, and shot a lot of blind bale, and I had to work out the yardages for my bow. But I didn't do any real shooting at all, for years. This would be great for that. After set-up I wouldn't even have to work yardages.



> Also how does this give you a chance to take longer shots?"


Obviously because range estimation is a serious challenge in archery, which if eliminated will make longer shots easier. If this doesn't work beyond 40 yards, then it will only help those who currently shoot shorter, if it is unlimited top shooter will be launching arrows into the next county. 



> Doesn’t a handheld rangefinder do that?


Yes, just not as well. Good technical range estimation for archers has only been around for a blink in time.



> If you can afford a rangefinder did you buy success?


Obviously, where it contributed to your success. Some of today's archers can probably manage shots without one but people aren't spending 1K to take a step backwards. When you buy a car, are you buying effortless transportation? Obviously, people used to have to walk. It's called progress.



> Who doesn’t have time or the ability to move to range when the animal is over 40 yards away?


I don't shoot game at 40 yards. But obviously there are situations, particularly in the bush, or for that matter in the complete open, where you are pressed for time. An animal moving through the timber may only appear for a few moments. Or if you had to elevate yourself above your cover while an animal is looking away, this will make it easier. Also if your first shot misses, and the animal is repositioned. There has to be some reason to spend the money.



> Still waiting for a good reason to dislike it as it pertains to the taking of game.


Well there isn't any if you are an extreme tech, take a second helping before the other people at the table kind of guy. I have no idea, but some of us live where there are X-guns in the season, and I don't see this as more than that. But that is sorta like saying well at least Tonya Harding didn't use a gun.
. 


> All I hear is people disliking it just to dislike it


You are projecting. I wouldn't say I dislike it. If I had more than one life to live, or lived where there were abundant open seasons, and I had the time to use all the gear I like I would use some of this stuff. Back in the 90s when we had a particularly bad period in our gun ownership in Canada, I had to divest, and I got a compound to have something like a rifle in my gear. Obviously nothing like the range of the rifle, but shooting style and the best advantage I could get, if they took our guns. I see this stuff as cool technology, I just don't deceive myself that it presents no advantage, or about what the effects of making bow hunting easier are.



> Or reasons that don’t reflect reality


Yeah, right. They don't affect your reality except positively, let's say. Hunting is at times a zero sum game, so any advantage you take comes at the expense of others, where that is the case. There is this thing called the tragedy of the commons. It refers to what happens when people all have free access to grazing lands. Overgrazing will ruin the land for all, but if you restrict yourself others can just push harder, there is no incentive to hold back. For commercial reasons, archery is set up so that the over-grazers get all the advantages, while people who set limits generally get the short end of the stick, even reputationally. If Howard Hill or Fred Bear were out there today, the John Dudleys of the world would still get the praise.





> And if it is then we need to outlaw 20 years worth of improvements
> Not just this sight


That wouldn't bother me, but we haven't for a variety of reasons. One being there is always someone going you "can't draw a line", and "how is one thing different from another". Like the frog in the water, the temp only goes up a notch at a time. The capitulation to X-guns, is something earlier generations would have regarded as a calamity, and even you accept stuff is getting easier.

There are different personality types. The way archery worked, it was only worth trying for the seasons, and doing all the work to establish the sport if you wanted the challenge, or loved actual, real archery. But the goldmine commercially was to turn all that over to two season hunters, and people who don't really like the challenges of archery or archery at all. I'm 58 and too young to have put the effort into creating modern seasons, etc... It is no skin off my nose. But it is odd to have people in the sport, the majority, who don't even recognize the founder's interest, or point of view.

Ethics

The main ethical issues I see in the application of this technology to hunting, are the interpersonal helping yourself to a bigger piece of the pie part. You could pretty easily create a polar diagram of hunters by method and the coverage their technology provides, by percent of population. And that would graphically show how much of the hunting pie techno archers are eating, vs others in the field. A state that wanted to equalize the sport, could then handicap participation by giving those who are helping themselves to the pie more than others, a shorter proportional season. You could look a the season not only as days but on the basis of opportunity, so early season might be more weighted than late season, say. But that would be fair, and that isn't what people are spending $850 for.

A secondary aspect would be whether modern hunters actually recognize the concept of fair chase. The idea that there is some kind of recognition that animals should be pursued within certain boundaries out of fairness to them. This isn't a PETA thing, it came up during times when people had a much reduced concern for kicking dogs, etc... than they have today. As archery has moved from a 20 yard sport to a 60 yard sport, we have increased our range/coverage by 900%. No biggie, but one would have to be thick to think it was nothing. Again the polar diagram method could help with that.


----------



## notcheckingbags

Would you please comment (at some point) on the set up procedures and also possibly discuss the use and storing of of different arrow profiles (heavier broad heads, etc.)? Thanks.



ontarget7 said:


> It was a privilege to get a call asking if I would be willing to test this new sight out by Garmin. Not a new company by any means but a new leap into archery for sure.
> Due to some other obligations that Garmin is locked in with I won’t be doing a full review until some of the write-ups have been released.
> 
> However, I will give you some good insight on the product with out going to in-depth just yet.
> 
> Will continue to post in this thread with pics, some video clips etc giving you a basic overview.
> 
> Garmin, really did kill it with their first archery product launch in the new Xero Sight.
> 
> Thanks
> Shane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Osage

Will this be legal for IBO? Tempting to allow an accessory that cost as much as some high end bows. Without range estimation, and given that realistic targets are something of a thing of the past. What would be the point to 3D. Why not just shoot spots, it would be a lot cheaper.


----------



## bhutso

Osage said:


> Not sure what you are saying here, does it cap you in some way? If all you mean is you still get to determine how far you can shoot, my contention is that people will shoot further. Based on archery since the technical period, that is what happens. Some probably can't if they have, say, a stand they regularly use that presents a 20 yard shot. But everyone gets this will help in unknown yard situations, that is why there is all the western states talk in the thread.
> 
> Also, this will make it possible not to practice at all. Back in the 90s, I used to shoot IBO, and hunt using a compound for a few years because I was in a huge city and had nowhere to practice. I used to laser to work on my range finding, and shot a lot of blind bale, and I had to work out the yardages for my bow. But I didn't do any real shooting at all, for years. This would be great for that. After set-up I wouldn't even have to work yardages.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously because range estimation is a serious challenge in archery, which if eliminated will make longer shots easier. If this doesn't work beyond 40 yards, then it will only help those who currently shoot shorter, if it is unlimited to shooter will be launching arrows into the next county.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, just not as well. Good range estimation for archers has only been around for s blink in time.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, where it contributed to your success. Some of today's archers can probably manage shots without one but people aren't spending 1K to take a step backwards. When you buy a car, are you buying effortless transportation? Obviously, people used to have to walk. It's called progress.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't shoot at 40 yards. But obviously there are situations, particularly in the bush, or for that matter in the complete open where you are pressed for time. An animal moving through the timber may only appear for a few moments. Or if you had to elevate yourself above your cover while an animal is looking away, this will make it easier. There has to be some reason to spend the money.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there isn't any if you are at the extreme tech, take a second helping before the other people at the table kind of guy. I have no idea, but some of us live where there are X-guns in the season, and I don't see this as more than that. But that is sorta like saying well at least Tonya Harding didn't use a gun.
> .
> 
> 
> You are projecting. I wouldn't say I dislike it. If I had more than one life to live, or lived where there were abundant open seasons, and I had to time to use all the gear I like I would use some of this stuff. Back in the 90s when we had a particularly bad period in our gun ownership in Canada, I had to divest, and I got a compound to have something like a rifle in my gear. Obviously nothing like the range of the rifle, but shooting style and the best advantage I could get, if they took our guns. I see this stuff as cool technology, I just don't deceive myself that it presents no advantage, or about what the effects of making bow hunting easier are.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, right. They don't affect your reality except positively, let's say. Hunting is at times a zero sum game, so any advantage you take comes at the expense of others, where that is the case. There is this thing called the tragedy of the commons. It refers to what happens when people all have free access to grazing lands. Overgrazing will ruin the land for all, but if you restrict yourself others can just push harder, there is no incentive to hold back. For commercial reasons, archery is set up so that the over-grazers get all the advantages, while people who set limits generally get the short end of the stick, even reputationally. If Howard Hill or Fred Bear were out there, the John Dudleys of the world would still get the praise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That wouldn't bother me, but we haven't for a variety of reasons. One being there is always someone going you "can't draw a line", and "how is one thing different from another". Like the frog in the water, the temp only goes up a notch at a time. The capitulation to X-guns, is something earlier generations would regard as a calamity, and even you accept stuff is getting easier.
> 
> There are different personality types. The way archery worked, it was only worth trying for the seasons, and doing all the work to establish the sport if you wanted the challenge, or loved actual, real archery. But the goldmine commercially was to turn all that over to two season hunters, and people who don't really like the challenges of archery or archery at all. I'm 58 and too young to have put the effort into creating modern seasons, etc... It is no skin off my nose. But it is odd to have people in the sport, the majority, who don't even recognize the founder's interest, or point of view.
> 
> Ethics
> 
> The main ethical issues I see in the application of this technology to hunting, are the interpersonal helping yourself to a bigger piece of the pie part. You could pretty easily create a polar diagram of hunters by method and the coverage their technology provides, by percent of population. And that would graphically show how much of the hunting pie techno archers are eating, vs others in the field. A state that wanted to equalize the sport, could then handicap participation by giving those who are helping themselves to the pie more than others, a shorter proportional season. You could look a the season not only as days but on the basis of opportunity, so early season might be more wieghted than late season, say. But that would be fair, and that isn't what people are spending $850 for.
> 
> A secondary aspect would be whether modern hunters actually recognize the concept of fair chase. The idea that there is some kind of recognition that animals should be pursued within certain boundaries out of fairness to them. This isn't a PETA thing, it came up during times when people had a much reduced concern for kicking dogs, etc... than they have today. As archery has moved from a 20 yard sport to a 60 yard sport, we have increased our range/coverage by 900%. No biggie, but one would have to be thick to think it was nothing. Again the polar diagram method could help with that.




It’s too much for me to answer every thing you posted too 
But I’ll say this 

Technology has improved vastly over the last 22 years I’ve been hunting 
At the same time bag limits have gone up 
I have killed no less than one and no more than three deer with a bow in every one of those years
With some of my best years being in the Nieghborhood of 10 years ago before I had a rangefinder 

That would seem to discount two things 
1. That I’m some extremely tech reliant jerk who takes more than his share of the pie.
Keeping in mind that for the last dozen years I could have killed 20-30-40 does if I wanted legally 
And chose 1,2, maybe 3 and that has not increased with technology 

2. Technology has made things easier, but it has made it easier for me from an efficiency stand points, not from a numbers stand point.
I don’t let the DNR tell me how many need to be taken, I figure that out on my own based on the deer numbers on my property 
And reconcile that with how many deer I actually need/want to consume 

In 1998 that number was 2-3 
In 2018 I’m going for 2-3 

The goal is always to get those 2-3 by taking 2-3 shots 
Mission accomplished this year on that (2 for 2)
And for next year the sight will do nothing but increases my odds of making 2-3,good shots when it matters 


What motives to I have that need to be defended ?

What advantage have I taken at the expense of other hunters?

Your position paints with a broad brush


----------



## bhutso

Osage said:


> Will this be legal for IBO? Tempting to allow an accessory that cost as much as some high end bows. Without range estimation, and given that realistic targets are something of a thing of the past. What would be the point to 3D. Why not just shoot spots, it would be a lot cheaper.


Why has the ASA grown by leaps and bounds since allowing known yardage?
Ironically to your post it actually brought some of the best paper punchers out of the weeds to compete in 3D


----------



## Njdeerhunter76

Not sure if this was already answered but this thread is 75 pages long!! Does this sight act like a holographic sight on a gun? Because if I'm correct, on a gun if you're out of shape a little, the red dot moves accordingly. So if you're eye was not dead behind the sight the dot would still give you an accurate POI. Sounds like if this does the same, it could solve a lot of people's torque issues. WOW!!! Now that would be revolutionary! Anyway, can't wait to find out.


----------



## Doty Bumb

Bowhunting used to be how close you could get to the game, not how far you can shoot.


----------



## Chaloman

Do you guys know in what states is this sigth legal ? Planing to go to utah and New mexico


----------



## bhutso

Doty Bumb said:


> Bowhunting used to be how close you could get to the game, not how far you can shoot.


Still is 
This helps with close shots too


----------



## duc

Doty Bumb said:


> Bowhunting used to be how close you could get to the game, not how far you can shoot.


How true. Seems people need an excuse to be lazy and think they can buy their skill.


----------



## Elknutz_1

Pretty sure it's legal here (Utah). The OP lives here.

They need to incorporate their camera in it as well. I'm kinda pumped to try one when the shops get them in.


----------



## bhutso

duc said:


> How true. Seems people need an excuse to be lazy and think they can buy their skill.


Are you off your meds?


----------



## Njdeerhunter76

Doty Bumb said:


> Bowhunting used to be how close you could get to the game, not how far you can shoot.


Still is! Everybody understands, that you still have to practice like you do now, Right? All this is, is a sight(already have that) and a range finder(have one of them too). Only difference now, is I can take "one" of the 50 things bowhunters take in the woods out of my pack. This sight is not going to make anyone a "better" Hunter or Archer. You still have to hold the pin steady, still have to follow through, still have to tune your bow and your arrows.


----------



## KamoKid14

Njdeerhunter76 said:


> Still is! Everybody understands, that you still have to practice like you do now, Right? All this is, is a sight(already have that) and a range finder(have one of them too). Only difference now, is I can take "one" of the 50 things bowhunters take in the woods out of my pack. This sight is not going to make anyone a "better" Hunter or Archer. You still have to hold the pin steady, still have to follow through, still have to tune your bow and your arrows.


Some one gets it. This sight in no way shape or form is going to make anyone shoot any better. If you honestly think that if someone who is a crap shot is going to put this on their bow and magically start shooting X’s at 60+ then you clearly have no clue what you are talking about and should research what this sight does. I’m going to bet that half the guys complaining about this carry a rangefinder. This sight just takes the extra step out of ranging then having to draw your bow. Also, for single pin users this is great because now you don’t have to worry about trying to adjust your sight if an animal moves while at full draw. I think it’s a cool idea.


----------



## Doty Bumb

So this sight is not a game changer as has been touted by the manufacturer?...............LOL


----------



## bhutso

It’s a game changer for people who already knew what they were doing in the first place


----------



## ScopeRKT

Can someone fill me in on where this sight will find the deer, do my scouting, have the deer in my shooting lane, and steady my pins.......I get where everyone is coming from but seriously, shooting the animal is the last 10% of hunting. 90% of hunting is everything else you have to do to get to the animal. I love and hate technology. Electronic rifle scopes, everyone thought this was going to be a game changer....Im into long range shooting and honestly I've maybe seen a handful of people that use them. Almost everyone uses their range finder and a traditional rifle scope. 

Its there if you want it and not if you dont.


----------



## duc

bhutso said:


> It’s a game changer for people who already knew what they were doing in the first place


Game changer? How? For people lacking skill sure it changes the game. Less stalking, less thinking. Buy a gun. Think you fall into this category. How’s that for “off my meds”.


----------



## Njdeerhunter76

ScopeRKT said:


> Can someone fill me in on where this sight will find the deer, do my scouting, have the deer in my shooting lane, and steady my pins.......I get where everyone is coming from but seriously, shooting the animal is the last 10% of hunting. 90% of hunting is everything else you have to do to get to the animal. I love and hate technology. Electronic rifle scopes, everyone thought this was going to be a game changer....Im into long range shooting and honestly I've maybe seen a handful of people that use them. Almost everyone uses their range finder and a traditional rifle scope.
> 
> Its there if you want it and not if you dont.


Agree 100%


----------



## bhutso

duc said:


> Game changer? How? For people lacking skill sure it changes the game. Less stalking, less thinking. Buy a gun. Think you fall into this category.


Its a game changer cause I already hit where I aim 

Now my aiming point will be as accurate as possible 

Killed many without it will will kill many with it 

Don’t need a crossbow or a rifle and I’m definitely not a bitter man who would insert myself into someone else’s business like you and tell you how to do things but if I were 
I may insinuate that Back in 1970 when you bought that compound 
You just bought your lazy ass an easy way to kill a deer 
And that you shoulda bought a rifle 
But again 
I’m not like that


----------



## Bullhound

to those who live and hunt in states where this is legal for use hunting, best of luck, and hope it works out well for ya!

For those of us that live in states where it is clearly illegal for use hunting big game, many of us are happy as heck that it isn't legal, as we want to keep our archery only seasons. Please don't try to shove these down our throats as a great thing for all states. 

Like I said before, I may have to waste some money on one just to play with, but don't think it will work too well with my 500 grain sticks! 

Not hacking on the sight, just not the best deal for everyone or every state.


----------



## BamBamm!

Awesome!


----------



## ontarget7

arrowm said:


> E-Z-V Sight is 50 state legal and ten times quicker...been preaching "get it right" not guess. Automatically sending your arrow to the correct entry point from any angle punching both lungs in seconds..."Punch tags, not buttons!"


You have a good product for what it does. However, your sight is not even in the same league. This is by know means a bash, just reality


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

arrowm said:


> E-Z-V Sight is 50 state legal and ten times quicker...been preaching "get it right" not guess. Automatically sending your arrow to the correct entry point from any angle punching both lungs in seconds..."Punch tags, not buttons!"


Just curious if you experimented with the vertical line we discussed on a different thread?


----------



## duc

bhutso said:


> Its a game changer cause I already hit where I aim
> 
> Now my aiming point will be as accurate as possible
> 
> Killed many without it will will kill many with it
> 
> Don’t need a crossbow or a rifle and I’m definitely not a bitter man who would insert myself into someone else’s business like you and tell you how to do things but if I were
> I may insinuate that Back in 1970 when you bought that compound
> You just bought your lazy ass an easy way to kill a deer
> And that you shoulda bought a rifle
> But again
> I’m not like that


Awful lot of anger in you. 
1. Never did TELL you how to do things. 
2. I said “I fell in love with the speed”. Never said it made hunting easier.
3. You twist things that i say justify you needs and your arguments with me and othe people are derogatory. 
4. You are an angry individual when others express a view contrary to yours. 
5. People like you make me reach for my meds.


----------



## bhutso

duc said:


> Game changer? How? For people lacking skill sure it changes the game. Less stalking, less thinking. Buy a gun. Think you fall into this category. How’s that for “off my meds”.


You 


duc said:


> Awful lot of anger in you.
> 1. Never did TELL you how to do things.
> 2. I said “I fell in love with the speed”. Never said it made hunting easier.
> 3. You twist things that i say justify you needs and your arguments with me and othe people are derogatory.
> 4. You are an angry individual when others express a view contrary to yours.
> 5. People like you make me reach for my meds.


Also you 




I rest my case about your meds


My view point is of how the sight impacts me 

Haven’t argued with any who don’t like it for them 
Just those who are pious enough to think I shouldn’t have it

Yet hide behind there own acceptable version of technology that’s ok to them 


Let’s just let my state laws handle what I can and can’t use


----------



## pabuck

Shane, have you tried adding a white vinyl dot where the 20 yard dot is projected at on the screen? This would ensure you would have a 20 yard pin in the event of the sight not powering on at the moment of truth!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## C-fused

Bullhound said:


> to those who live and hunt in states where this is legal for use hunting, best of luck, and hope it works out well for ya!
> 
> For those of us that live in states where it is clearly illegal for use hunting big game, many of us are happy as heck that it isn't legal, as we want to keep our archery only seasons. Please don't try to shove these down our throats as a great thing for all states.
> 
> Like I said before, I may have to waste some money on one just to play with, but don't think it will work too well with my 500 grain sticks!
> 
> Not hacking on the sight, just not the best deal for everyone or every state.


Do you use a laser rangefinder?


----------



## pabuck

arrowm said:


> E-Z-V Sight is 50 state legal and ten times quicker...been preaching "get it right" not guess. Automatically sending your arrow to the correct entry point from any angle punching both lungs in seconds..."Punch tags, not buttons!"


Enough of the EZV sight, no one in this thread wants to read about your sight. They clicked here to read about the Garmin Xero. Create your own thread and those who want to read about it will visit and post accordingly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

pabuck said:


> Shane, have you tried adding a white vinyl dot where the 20 yard dot is projected at on the screen? This would ensure you would have a 20 yard pin in the event of the sight not powering on at the moment of truth!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have not
Being that the plexiglass is at an angle it would be tricky to get it perfectly in line with the projected pins but I’m sure it’s doable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Njdeerhunter76

Njdeerhunter76 said:


> Not sure if this was already answered but this thread is 75 pages long!! Does this sight act like a holographic sight on a gun? Because if I'm correct, on a gun if you're out of shape a little, the red dot moves accordingly. So if you're eye was not dead behind the sight the dot would still give you an accurate POI. Sounds like if this does the same, it could solve a lot of people's torque issues. WOW!!! Now that would be revolutionary! Anyway, can't wait to find out.


Anyone?


----------



## zwalls

anyone know how much the sight weighs?


----------



## pabuck

zwalls said:


> anyone know how much the sight weighs?


14.7 oz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Njdeerhunter76 said:


> Anyone?


I have to say I can’t find anywhere (and I watched every video and read every article). Where this is something claimed to be a benifit of this sight 

I see what you are getting at but I don’t think it corrects for torque if there is any 
I have heard Shane say it can show you if you are inconsistent with different grip pressures (torque) and then you can make that correction 

Hope that’s helpful since no one chimed in


----------



## brendan's dad

Just spoke with a retailer that was at the ATA. It was identified that if drops of water (raining) got on either side of the lens that it could distort or appear to change the location of the red dot.

Shane, have you done any testing after throwing some water on either side of the lens?


----------



## Bodkin3

Wow! is right. The community is divided over this, and the price is..wow...that's a lot of cash. I don't think the illuminated pixel will be legal in TX or many other states, but cool and awesome there is no doubt!


----------



## bhutso

Bodkin3 said:


> Wow! is right. The community is divided over this, and the price is..wow...that's a lot of cash. I don't think the illuminated pixel will be legal in TX or many other states, but cool and awesome there is no doubt!


It’s legal in tx and most states

the sight isn’t illuminated any different than a fiber optic with a light 

But yeah.... wow.... you would think it turned your bow into a crossbow the way some look at it


----------



## ccure

seems interesting... however pretty expensive... prob will pass on this one


----------



## kballer1

Talked to 2 guys that handle it at the show & they both said that the head isn't real stable & that it might be bumped & possibly that wouldn't stay on target. They had some sold & backed away from them.
Will be interesting to hear after some do testing & see how stable they are.


----------



## Rockyhud

I just got to this thread and maybe I missed it being mentioned in earlier posts (my apologies if it has) but this Garmin site absolutely is not legal for mounting on a bow and using it in the field for archery hunting in Colorado. The regulations basically say unequivocally NO ELECTRONIC device on a bow. Even the Vendetta bow mounted range finder is not legal. The rule makers only last year decided to allow lighted nocks so I very much doubt this will be allowed any time soon. Neat concept though.


----------



## kicker338

ontarget7 said:


> You have a good product for what it does. However, your sight is not even in the same league. This is by know means a bash, just reality
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You should consider yourself as fortunate after what Aaron went threw when he introduced the EZV sight here on AT. He got ripped really bad by a whole bunch of experts here that had never even
seen one let alone tried one but knew for a fact that it was junk, a joke and a gimmick.

Now you have a bunch of guys who again have never seen a new garmin let alone used one and are proclaiming it as the greatest thing that has come to archery.


----------



## Bullhound

C-fused said:


> Do you use a laser rangefinder?


why do you ask?


----------



## I like Meat

get this thing in the rain, fog, mist, freezing rain, snowfall, will it even work, will it fog, extreme cold will the rangefinder work, will the aiming dots come on ?? ... bump it while hauling it up into a treestand will it handle extreme hunting conditions ? ... I know my HHA 5519 is fine in those situations ....


----------



## jmclfrsh

henro said:


> Can you switch between fixed pin and rangefinder pin modes with the grip mounted button or do you have to hit something on the sight. I would want to be able to do it just with the grip button while at full draw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tap the grip button and it switches to the fixed pins you have already set up.


----------



## Njdeerhunter76

bhutso said:


> Njdeerhunter76 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say I can’t find anywhere (and I watched every video and read every article). Where this is something claimed to be a benifit of this sight
> 
> I see what you are getting at but I don’t think it corrects for torque if there is any
> I have heard Shane say it can show you if you are inconsistent with different grip pressures (torque) and then you can make that correction
> 
> Hope that’s helpful since no one chimed in
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't found anything definitive either. Am I right about how these types of holographic sights work on pistols though? I've never owned one or used one so I can't be sure. If it is the same technology it may not work the same on a bow with all the variables. But if it does work that way, (IMO) Garmin stumbled on to something really big. May not be for everyone(legal,ethical,your cup of tea, etc. I know a few people who have never went to compounds and to each his own), but it's nice to know it's available. Again, thanks for the feedback.


----------



## dugabob

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Yep... Auto insurance claims with deer accidents are considered in most states. Easy data for them to see.


I've seen it too, in central NY, several areas I hunted for years, with very good bow hunting, went to poor bow hunting when they allowed doe permits during gun season. Only took a few years to totally change how the woods looked in the fall. Questioned wardens why the change, he said that the insurance companies would be forced to make large increases in premiums that some people would not be able to afford. Seems that is a stretch, but that is how it was precieved or sold to regulators.


----------



## dugabob

bcowette said:


> The people complaining are the type that get mad when anyone but them kills a deer. Getting a mature buck in bow range is and always will be the hardest part of bow hunting. Period.


I agree totally with you on this, we as bow hunters have spent vast amounts of time studying our quarry, so we can get close. In Maine a long shot is 40 yds, most under 25yds. I like getting close and then let the 'winds' of fortune spin their ways.


----------



## dugabob

Predator said:


> So question on a couple of scenarios with similar challenges - deer hunting out of treestand - buck is walking behind limbs etc. and you stop him in a small hole but rangefinder is picking up limbs in front of buck rather than buck - what pin do you get? Or, spot-n-stalk on bedded muley in grass and RF is picking up grass in foreground that you know isn't at the right distance (you either need to catch an ear or nearby object or guess based on range of grass in front) - what pin do you get?
> 
> I just know it can be a pain to get my RF to give me exact right distance in situations like this or I have to adjust using judgment and don't know how you do that on the fly with a sight that picks your pin for you based on a range it gets that probably isn't accurate in certain cases.


This is the normal situation where I hunt, it's very difficult to range except where very open. I set my stands up, and range from the ground to my stand where I can get an open enough view and place a yardage marker out. A range finder sight won't help, if it's confounded by the cover.


----------



## ontarget7

^^^^^^
Everyone has a choice and for me personally I don’t take shots through small holes due to arrow trajectory and you risking a bigger chance of just wounding an animal due to hitting branches etc. before the arrow gets to it. 

Mule deer bedded in grass is really not all that difficult. Your not going to take a shot until the deer stands up if the grass is really that tall. You wait out your situation, get in a position so you are at your own effective range and wind is right. Then simply wait until he gets out of his bed and range the target. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

kicker338 said:


> You should consider yourself as fortunate after what Aaron went threw when he introduced the EZV sight here on AT. He got ripped really bad by a whole bunch of experts here that had never even
> seen one let alone tried one but knew for a fact that it was junk, a joke and a gimmick.
> 
> Now you have a bunch of guys who again have never seen a new garmin let alone used one and are proclaiming it as the greatest thing that has come to archery.


Actually, Garmin didn’t come on here and try to explain a brand new foreign concept to people like Aaron did 
They sent shane a sight and he shared his thoughts 
Aaron eventually did that too but what you are seeing is the fact that while a lot of people like the idea of saving time on ranging, they don’t want it at the expense of accuracy 

I gave the ezv a fair chance 
Actually bought two of them 
If I was only going to shoot 30 yards it would meet my needs 
But I’ve never hunted with it 
Not accurate enough for what I personally want 

The saddest thing to me is that you and then Aaron himself decided to come here and throw the name around 

There are plenty of ezv threads to talk about that 
These two products are not in the same zip code on price alone 

For the record I don’t proclaim it as the greatest thing to come to archery, I think I’ve even argued against it being “unfair” to animals 
Some seem to think you put this sight on and set your bow outside and animals start dying 
There is not shortage of negativity towards the Garmin. If you think so you missed a bunch of pages 

But for me personally this is everything I was hoping to get when I bought the ezv 
It’s not that hard understand what this sight does compared to what the ezv does


----------



## Mathias

bhutso said:


> But for me personally this is everything I was hoping to get when I bought the ezv
> It’s not that hard understand what this sight does compared to what the ezv does


Not busting your stones, but I’m not sure how you expected Garmin-like features at simplistic, low dollar amount pricing?!
I have zero interest in the EZV.
Intrigued by the Garmin, I’ll see one at LAS some day.


----------



## pabuck

dugabob said:


> This is the normal situation where I hunt, it's very difficult to range except where very open. I set my stands up, and range from the ground to my stand where I can get an open enough view and place a yardage marker out. A range finder sight won't help, if it's confounded by the cover.


All you have to do is click the button and bring up your fixed pin dots!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Mathias said:


> Not busting your stones, but I’m not sure how you expected Garmin-like features at simplistic, low dollar amount pricing?!
> I have zero interest in the EZV.
> Intrigued by the Garmin, I’ll see one at LAS some day.


“Hope” not expect 

And what I meant by that is that I could have acceptable (for myself) accuracy with it at all my hunting distances 
I had high hopes for that 
That’s how it is marketed 


Hope that makes sense


----------



## brendan's dad

brendan's dad said:


> Just spoke with a retailer that was at the ATA. It was identified that if drops of water (raining) got on either side of the lens that it could distort or appear to change the location of the red dot.
> 
> Shane, have you done any testing after throwing some water on either side of the lens?


Has this already been discussed?


----------



## dugabob

Willyboys said:


> I have scanned this thread and paid attention to what I thought was information on the sight. It took several sessions due to the ethics arguments taking up space. So with that excuse for maybe missing something, I have a question for Shane or someone who really knows the answer.
> 
> Does this rangefinder pick up the last target in a brushy or thickly wooded condition? In other words, does it not pick up foreground interference which would result in an error in ranging?


That question has been asked multiple times and NO answer has come forth, seems telling to me, ALL other questions seem to get answered, so judge for yourself.


----------



## jdw2920

dugabob said:


> Willyboys said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have scanned this thread and paid attention to what I thought was information on the sight. It took several sessions due to the ethics arguments taking up space. So with that excuse for maybe missing something, I have a question for Shane or someone who really knows the answer.
> 
> Does this rangefinder pick up the last target in a brushy or thickly wooded condition? In other words, does it not pick up foreground interference which would result in an error in ranging?
> 
> 
> 
> That question has been asked multiple times and NO answer has come forth, seems telling to me, ALL other questions seem to get answered, so judge for yourself.
Click to expand...

It’s just like any other range finder is what was said when asked. It doesn’t weed out anything just like any other rangefinder. I’m pretty sure that’s what was said earlier


----------



## bhutso

dugabob said:


> That question has been asked multiple times and NO answer has come forth, seems telling to me, ALL other questions seem to get answered, so judge for yourself.


It along with many other repeat questions have been answered multiple times 
It’s a 33 page thread currently 
Lots of repetition

I understand people don’t want to read 
Just like some people don’t want to answer the same question over and over


----------



## pabuck

dugabob said:


> That question has been asked multiple times and NO answer has come forth, seems telling to me, ALL other questions seem to get answered, so judge for yourself.


It has been answered and it will not pick up in thick brush, just like every other rangefinder. All you need to do is range a neighboring tree to get an idea of distance and then bring up the fixed pins. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hunter gatherer

Will be interested in seeing reviews on the Garmin site in one year from now. At present it's all advertising hyping the latest greatest tech. If there are any shortcomings I'm sure it will be posted here. Who knows maybe in a year they will be in the classifieds for half price.


----------



## Red Eye 81

brendan's dad said:


> Has this already been discussed?


I am really interested in the Garmin. I stated earlier I will probably wait until next year to purchase to make sure "bugs" are worked out, and also to save some money towards it.

But I can see rain/moisture on the lens being an issue. Any water dots, etc. on that glass would have to distort the laser dot that is projected onto it. It might be one of the "downsides" to the Garmin, we will see.......


----------



## ScopeRKT

Red Eye 81 said:


> I am really interested in the Garmin. I stated earlier I will probably wait until next year to purchase to make sure "bugs" are worked out, and also to save some money towards it.
> 
> But I can see rain/moisture on the lens being an issue. Any water dots, etc. on that glass would have to distort the laser dot that is projected onto it. It might be one of the "downsides" to the Garmin, we will see.......


They have had out hydrophobic coatings and glass for a while. Now i dont know if they have that on their sight, but if you were able to coat it or it came with that sort of coating, then it wouldnt even be an issue. I just know this from my car detailing experience. How that would effect the LED that projects the pins would probably be my greater worry. Obviously is housed different than say a Trijicon RMR.


----------



## bhutso

Red Eye 81 said:


> I am really interested in the Garmin. I stated earlier I will probably wait until next year to purchase to make sure "bugs" are worked out, and also to save some money towards it.
> 
> But I can see rain/moisture on the lens being an issue. Any water dots, etc. on that glass would have to distort the laser dot that is projected onto it. It might be one of the "downsides" to the Garmin, we will see.......


When I get it I plan to looks at ways to address this 

Anit fog coating maybe 
I’ll get some sort of sight housing cover 
May even see if a flip up scope cover will work 

But definitely could be an issue


----------



## frog gigger

Red Eye 81 said:


> I am really interested in the Garmin. I stated earlier I will probably wait until next year to purchase to make sure "bugs" are worked out, and also to save some money towards it.
> 
> But I can see rain/moisture on the lens being an issue. Any water dots, etc. on that glass would have to distort the laser dot that is projected onto it. It might be one of the "downsides" to the Garmin, we will see.......


I'd like to see a poll of how many that intend to use the Garmin, currently use a lens for hunting.


----------



## bhutso

frog gigger said:


> I'd like to see a poll of how many that intend to use the Garmin, currently use a lens for hunting.


I don’t use magnification for anything, even targets 
But I do have a truglo power dot that I hunted with for 2 years without issues 
Some extra care has to be taken but I liked the sight picture so much it was worth it to me 

The reason I stopped using it is having to move the range was cumbersome and the actual build of the sight was junk 

Lens didn’t bother or hurt me personally though 

But everyone is different


----------



## eltaco

I’m going to get on my soapbox for a second... so bare with me. Every year manufacturers release new product to the market, and its consistent criticism for lack of innovation... then likely the most innovative product to the market since the rangefinder shows up and its received with complaints of excessive innovation. This crowd truly can’t be satisfied.

There are soooo many misconceptions and/or misinformations posted in this thread.

The rangefinder is about 1.5” from the scope center, so if you can see clearly enough to take a shot thru the brush, you will get a range thru it. If you can’t range, it’s because you have obstructions in your line of sight and arrow path. Even then, one tap of the button brings your fixed pins.

Ranging happens in about 1 second at full draw. It’s one button press, so simple. Once you’re at full draw, you point, click, aim, and fire.

The lens is multicoated, and includes a hydrophobic coating to shed water. 

It’s illegal in very few states... note all of the websites that have initial reviews are recanting earlier misleading statements. It does not project a beam of light towards the animal, nor does it magnify the target.

It doesn’t shoot the bow for you, this is a slider on steroids. People are good with sliders, and they’re good with rangefinders, but for some reason this product crosses the line? I’m confused. Guessing POI between pins isn’t a “skill”, it’s a gamble on an animals life. Levi Morgan sits in the stand with a rangefinder. He also shoots target with a slider to aim where he intends to hit. So much confusion over this stance.

Laser alignment is setup for your particular grip, so you don’t change anything about how you hold a bow to use this product. It’s setup for your torque, and displays when you’ve deviated from your “norm”. As a note, a fixed blade broadhead also shows you when you deviate from your norm, except you don’t find out until you release it towards your target. 

The Xero is not flimsy, and in fact has the beefiest dovetails I’ve ever seen on a sight before. Really hard to fault its durability when you see these first hand.

The batteries are good for around 25,000 ranges. I don’t know that I’ve even used my personal rangefinder for 25,000 ranges in its lifetime. A simple field replacement and you’re back up and running, it stores all of the setup data.

It doesn’t matter if you’re shooting 100fps or 370fps, you input your own pins for each distance. It’s not guessing your speed.

Seeing the Xero firsthand was awesome. Obviously it’s been well thought out and tested. After seeing the product and demonstrations, I’m confident any negative conclusions are stemming from haters, or those who can’t justify the expense for their own personal reasons. This is the most advanced sight this market has ever seen, and was absolutely the talk of the trade show. I can’t wait to see people’s impressions when they actually get their hands on it... I promise the concerns I’m reading on here will fade as it becomes better understood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Belo

dugabob said:


> That question has been asked multiple times and NO answer has come forth, seems telling to me, ALL other questions seem to get answered, so judge for yourself.


We all hunt differently, but what archer is ethically shooting through brush that is so bad his rangefinder can't pick up the distance? Gun I understand but arrows don't take much to deflect. seems silly to consider a shot like that.


----------



## kicker338

bhutso said:


> Actually, Garmin didn’t come on here and try to explain a brand new foreign concept to people like Aaron did
> They sent shane a sight and he shared his thoughts
> Aaron eventually did that too but what you are seeing is the fact that while a lot of people like the idea of saving time on ranging, they don’t want it at the expense of accuracy
> 
> I gave the ezv a fair chance
> Actually bought two of them
> If I was only going to shoot 30 yards it would meet my needs
> But I’ve never hunted with it
> Not accurate enough for what I personally want
> 
> The saddest thing to me is that you and then Aaron himself decided to come here and throw the name around
> 
> There are plenty of ezv threads to talk about that
> These two products are not in the same zip code on price alone
> 
> For the record I don’t proclaim it as the greatest thing to come to archery, I think I’ve even argued against it being “unfair” to animals
> Some seem to think you put this sight on and set your bow outside and animals start dying
> There is not shortage of negativity towards the Garmin. If you think so you missed a bunch of pages
> 
> But for me personally this is everything I was hoping to get when I bought the ezv
> It’s not that hard understand what this sight does compared to what the ezv does


Interesting how you compare a small one man company with I think has only about 12 employ's to a multy million or is it a multy. billion doller company. By the way Aaron didn't send a sight to 
shane on his own he ask the members here on AT to pick someone to try his sight and shane was the one picked.

I do get a kick out of this accuracy bit with the EZV sight though. For what it's worth I've shot the EZV along with my spot hog for about a yr. now and can't tell any difference in accuracy out to 60yds.
70 and 80yds I did better with the EZV and the only reason I'm sure was the pins blurred too much on the hog sight.

My conclusion was it was the Indian not the sight that determined how accurate any sight was. I'm sorry and really feel for you if your not that good of a shot, you might try a pro coach for a little
training LOL.


----------



## Predator

eltaco said:


> I’m going to get on my soapbox for a second... so bare with me. Every year manufacturers release new product to the market, and its consistent criticism for lack of innovation... then likely the most innovative product to the market since the rangefinder shows up and its received with complaints of excessive innovation. This crowd truly can’t be satisfied.
> 
> There are soooo many misconceptions and/or misinformations posted in this thread.
> 
> The rangefinder is about 1.5” from the scope center, so if you can see clearly enough to take a shot thru the brush, you will get a range thru it. If you can’t range, it’s because you have obstructions in your line of sight and arrow path. Even then, one tap of the button brings your fixed pins.
> 
> Ranging happens in about 1 second at full draw. It’s one button press, so simple. Once you’re at full draw, you point, click, aim, and fire.
> 
> The lens is multicoated, and includes a hydrophobic coating to shed water.
> 
> It’s illegal in very few states... note all of the websites that have initial reviews are recanting earlier misleading statements. It does not project a beam of light towards the animal, nor does it magnify the target.
> 
> It doesn’t shoot the bow for you, this is a slider on steroids. People are good with sliders, and they’re good with rangefinders, but for some reason this product crosses the line? I’m confused. Guessing POI between pins isn’t a “skill”, it’s a gamble on an animals life. Levi Morgan sits in the stand with a rangefinder. He also shoots target with a slider to aim where he intends to hit. So much confusion over this stance.
> 
> Laser alignment is setup for your particular grip, so you don’t change anything about how you hold a bow to use this product. It’s setup for your torque, and displays when you’ve deviated from your “norm”. As a note, a fixed blade broadhead also shows you when you deviate from your norm, except you don’t find out until you release it towards your target.
> 
> The Xero is not flimsy, and in fact has the beefiest dovetails I’ve ever seen on a sight before. Really hard to fault its durability when you see these first hand.
> 
> The batteries are good for around 25,000 ranges. I don’t know that I’ve even used my personal rangefinder for 25,000 ranges in its lifetime. A simple field replacement and you’re back up and running, it stores all of the setup data.
> 
> It doesn’t matter if you’re shooting 100fps or 370fps, you input your own pins for each distance. It’s not guessing your speed.
> 
> Seeing the Xero firsthand was awesome. Obviously it’s been well thought out and tested. After seeing the product and demonstrations, I’m confident any negative conclusions are stemming from haters, or those who can’t justify the expense for their own personal reasons. This is the most advanced sight this market has ever seen, and was absolutely the talk of the trade show. I can’t wait to see people’s impressions when they actually get their hands on it... I promise the concerns I’m reading on here will fade as it becomes better understood.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great post!

I may have missed it but do you know the total weight of the sight (all-in) in ounces?


----------



## trial153

Predator said:


> Great post!
> 
> I may have missed it but do you know the total weight of the sight (all-in) in ounces?


i was told 14oz, dont know how accurate that is.


----------



## ScopeRKT

trial153 said:


> i was told 14oz, dont know how accurate that is.


14.7oz is the number being thrown around. Dont know if thats with or without the batteries.


----------



## bhutso

kicker338 said:


> Interesting how you compare a small one man company with I think has only about 12 employ's to a multy million or is it a multy. billion doller company. By the way Aaron didn't send a sight to
> shane on his own he ask the members here on AT to pick someone to try his sight and shane was the one picked.
> 
> I do get a kick out of this accuracy bit with the EZV sight though. For what it's worth I've shot the EZV along with my spot hog for about a yr. now and can't tell any difference in accuracy out to 60yds.
> 70 and 80yds I did better with the EZV and the only reason I'm sure was the pins blurred too much on the hog sight.
> 
> My conclusion was it was the Indian not the sight that determined how accurate any sight was. I'm sorry and really feel for you if your not that good of a shot, you might try a pro coach for a little
> training LOL.


Funny 
I did the same test 
Spot hogg vs EZV and it was no contest 

Somehow having a pin point spot to use to aim with helps people who hit where they aim 

Sorry you aren’t a good enough shot to know the difference between hitting the bullseye and hitting a pie plate 
Maybe you should try a little training or coaching?


Also you brag about 60-70-80 yard groups... why not post em up?

The owner of the company will tell you (and has said) the margin for error in range judgement with the EZV is to large to trust past what 40 yards? 
So you aren’t shooting the v at 80 are you? Using the ticks? Like a pin? But pins don’t make you accurate....V’s do 
Come on and back up your big talk

I won’t respond till I see what an awesome shot you are

You’ve taken a thread about an awesome archery innovation 
Made it about a product you like and made it personal with me


----------



## offsmith0322

Damn people going off in this thread. I think the product is highly innovative. If it makes for better/quicker kills on animals I think it is a good thing. Hunting is all about having an advantage over the animal. Hell otherwise we would never have developed better hunting instruments or improved rifles, bows etc. 

I would happily shoot one of these.

However the price is an absolute no way. The features are crazy and it can easily allow you to acquire a target faster and put a better shot. I see people stating that the range finder and sight they own are same price...holy crap what are you buying? I have a Vortex Range finder, that is good for up to 1000 yards that I got for $200, a Fast Eddie double Pin i got for $175. That is less than half the price of the garmin, which I admit is far more advanced. 

I cannot justify spending $800 on a bow sight when my bow was $800, but to each his own. If you want it, get it, I think it is innovative.


----------



## Belo

kicker338 said:


> Interesting how you compare a small one man company with I think has only about 12 employ's to a multy million or is it a multy. billion doller company. By the way Aaron didn't send a sight to
> shane on his own he ask the members here on AT to pick someone to try his sight and shane was the one picked.
> 
> I do get a kick out of this accuracy bit with the EZV sight though. For what it's worth I've shot the EZV along with my spot hog for about a yr. now and can't tell any difference in accuracy out to 60yds.
> 70 and 80yds I did better with the EZV and the only reason I'm sure was the pins blurred too much on the hog sight.
> 
> My conclusion was it was the Indian not the sight that determined how accurate any sight was. I'm sorry and really feel for you if your not that good of a shot, you might try a pro coach for a little
> training LOL.


I don't know much about the ezv, but this thread is long enough and hard enough to find good answers without a pissing match about a site that nobody came in here to talk about. I believe i speak for all when I request we dedicate this thread to the garmin and then maybe we dont have to ask the same questions over and over because people can't easily wade through the bullpoop.


----------



## Doty Bumb

Most hunters pick up a bow for the challenge it promotes. Then some begin to hang every latest gizmo on their bow to make it less challenging............ Go figure.


----------



## ScopeRKT

Doty Bumb said:


> Most hunters pick up a bow for the challenge it promotes. Then some begin to hang every latest gizmo on their bow to make it less challenging............ Go figure.


So why not get rid of stabilizers too to make it more challenging too? Its one thing to make something challenging, its another thing when you are trying to make a humane kill on an animal. You owe it to the animal to make the best and most accurate shot that you can make. 

Everyone complains of tech, so I hope you aren't using any game cameras, GPS, range finders, Iphones for tracking moon phases and sun up and sun down time.

Why not make 1000 yard rifle shooting more challenging by not allowing scopes? At the end of the day tech is an aid, not the final result.


----------



## Doty Bumb

ScopeRKT said:


> So why not get rid of stabilizers too to make it more challenging too? Its one thing to make something challenging, its another thing when you are trying to make a humane kill on an animal. You owe it to the animal to make the best and most accurate shot that you can make.
> 
> Everyone complains of tech, so I hope you aren't using any game cameras, GPS, range finders, Iphones for tracking moon phases and sun up and sun down time.
> 
> Why not make 1000 yard rifle shooting more challenging by not allowing scopes? At the end of the day tech is an aid, not the final result.


At the end of my day it's all about the hunt.


----------



## Toxo-Philite

In the Communications field, there is a theory of Diffusion of Innovations, that says for any new invention (imagine a tractor over a plow): 
-2.5% of the population run out and buy it right away, these are the Innovators. 
-Then there are the Early Adopters,13.5%, who convert to the new technology. 
-Then comes the Early Majority of 34% converting over. 
-Then comes another 34% known as the Late Majority.
-Then there are the 16% who are known as Laggards, who are resistant to changing to the new technology. These are the purists who refuse to give up what they have always used, even though it has been proven that the new technology works and most of the population (84%) have converted to it.
By the same reasoning you can see on this thread who are the pioneer 2.5% Innovators, who are the 13.5% Early Adopters, etc.
Nothing wrong with each group, think phones, there are those among us who have the latest phones, those who have phones from a couple years ago, those who still use flip phones, and those who still only use land lines, some maybe using smoke signals. What matters is what works for who and satisfies whose needs.
Back to Xero's f/actual features.
I still would like to know what is the yardage limit of the sight for any bow, like the one ontarget7 is shooting?


----------



## eltaco

eltaco said:


> I’m going to get on my soapbox for a second... so bare with me. Every year manufacturers release new product to the market, and its consistent criticism for lack of innovation... then likely the most innovative product to the market since the rangefinder shows up and its received with complaints of excessive innovation. This crowd truly can’t be satisfied.
> 
> There are soooo many misconceptions and/or misinformations posted in this thread.
> 
> The rangefinder is about 1.5” from the scope center, so if you can see clearly enough to take a shot thru the brush, you will get a range thru it. If you can’t range, it’s because you have obstructions in your line of sight and arrow path. Even then, one tap of the button brings your fixed pins.
> 
> Ranging happens in about 1 second at full draw. It’s one button press, so simple. Once you’re at full draw, you point, click, aim, and fire.
> 
> The lens is multicoated, and includes a hydrophobic coating to shed water.
> 
> It’s illegal in very few states... note all of the websites that have initial reviews are recanting earlier misleading statements. It does not project a beam of light towards the animal, nor does it magnify the target.
> 
> It doesn’t shoot the bow for you, this is a slider on steroids. People are good with sliders, and they’re good with rangefinders, but for some reason this product crosses the line? I’m confused. Guessing POI between pins isn’t a “skill”, it’s a gamble on an animals life. Levi Morgan sits in the stand with a rangefinder. He also shoots target with a slider to aim where he intends to hit. So much confusion over this stance.
> 
> Laser alignment is setup for your particular grip, so you don’t change anything about how you hold a bow to use this product. It’s setup for your torque, and displays when you’ve deviated from your “norm”. As a note, a fixed blade broadhead also shows you when you deviate from your norm, except you don’t find out until you release it towards your target.
> 
> The Xero is not flimsy, and in fact has the beefiest dovetails I’ve ever seen on a sight before. Really hard to fault its durability when you see these first hand.
> 
> The batteries are good for around 25,000 ranges. I don’t know that I’ve even used my personal rangefinder for 25,000 ranges in its lifetime. A simple field replacement and you’re back up and running, it stores all of the setup data.
> 
> It doesn’t matter if you’re shooting 100fps or 370fps, you input your own pins for each distance. It’s not guessing your speed.
> 
> Seeing the Xero firsthand was awesome. Obviously it’s been well thought out and tested. After seeing the product and demonstrations, I’m confident any negative conclusions are stemming from haters, or those who can’t justify the expense for their own personal reasons. This is the most advanced sight this market has ever seen, and was absolutely the talk of the trade show. I can’t wait to see people’s impressions when they actually get their hands on it... I promise the concerns I’m reading on here will fade as it becomes better understood.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Weight of the sight is listed as 14.7oz, but if you feel it you'll realize there's very little mass weight at the end... so it's not very front heavy. Contrast this to other high-end mechanical sights, where the weight is located primarily at the housing/pin rails. The weight was actually quite impressive.

There is actually quite a bit of information on the Garmin website, to include links to videos explaining features.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/613654#overview
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/learning-center/xero-a1i-bow-sight


----------



## kicker338

Belo said:


> I don't know much about the ezv, but this thread is long enough and hard enough to find good answers without a pissing match about a site that nobody came in here to talk about. I believe i speak for all when I request we dedicate this thread to the garmin and then maybe we dont have to ask the same questions over and over because people can't easily wade through the bullpoop.


Ok got it I'm done carry on.


----------



## bigbucks170

so whats the word on when they will be shipping and available ?? I know 5-8 weeks they say , but what were they saying at the
ATA show? When ? when? lol


----------



## gunrunr

I have them on order for our shop directly from Garmin - Rep told me 2/28 - about 6 weeks


----------



## bhutso

bigbucks170 said:


> so whats the word on when they will be shipping and available ?? I know 5-8 weeks they say , but what were they saying at the
> ATA show? When ? when? lol


I was told second week of feb by god’s country archery 
S and S I believe is telling people march 

This is just what I was told 
If it doesn’t ship mid feb It wouldn’t be the first time I was told wrong when I bought something


----------



## MAD 6

$1000 to spend on a bow or Sight? I can buy a sight for $100 but not a bow so I would spend it on a bow. $1000 bow and $1000 sight? I'll buy a gun.


----------



## bhutso

MAD 6 said:


> $1000 to spend on a bow or Sight? I can buy a sight for $100 but not a bow so I would spend it on a bow. $1000 bow and $1000 sight? I'll buy a gun.


https://youtu.be/IJ_R-G_i4Xk


----------



## 0nepin

Its a good sight but not for me .i have decided to send mine back and stick with a king pin.my issue was the dot would not stay in focus and the target at the same time.im sure it just my issue because I just started wearing glasses,I don’t think many other people will have this issue .I would feel much better if this sight had an adjustable pin that was separate from th electro dot that did require batteries to work and only when you triggered the rangefinder would the electro dot appear to give you your hold over .with my luck I would b hunting in late season in freezing temp and a monster buck would step and the battery die at that very moment.its a great sight but not for my type of hunting .with the high speed setups I hunt with (340fps) give or take I just set my pin dead on at 32 yards and aim at the top of the heart and kill ever deer from 0-43 yards with out any adjustments to my sight .


----------



## ontarget7

kicker338 said:


> Interesting how you compare a small one man company with I think has only about 12 employ's to a multy million or is it a multy. billion doller company. By the way Aaron didn't send a sight to
> shane on his own he ask the members here on AT to pick someone to try his sight and shane was the one picked.
> 
> I do get a kick out of this accuracy bit with the EZV sight though. For what it's worth I've shot the EZV along with my spot hog for about a yr. now and can't tell any difference in accuracy out to 60yds.
> 70 and 80yds I did better with the EZV and the only reason I'm sure was the pins blurred too much on the hog sight.
> 
> My conclusion was it was the Indian not the sight that determined how accurate any sight was. I'm sorry and really feel for you if your not that good of a shot, you might try a pro coach for a little
> training LOL.


Your just a better Indian than me

I didn’t find it as accurate as a regular pin myself and the reason for not still shooting it. 

I do find it a little funny to even compare the two sights, as there is no comparison. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

Toxo-Philite said:


> I still would like to know what is the yardage limit of the sight for any bow, like the one ontarget7 is shooting?


For that particular arrow and bow specs, max is 95 yards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

Doty Bumb said:


> Most hunters pick up a bow for the challenge it promotes. Then some begin to hang every latest gizmo on their bow to make it less challenging............ Go figure.


Yeah, right
Especially when you still have to put the pin on the target with the Xero. 

Sorta like your sight if you use a fiber optic pin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

0nepin said:


> Its a good sight but not for me .i have decided to send mine back and stick with a king pin.my issue was the dot would not stay in focus and the target at the same time.im sure it just my issue because I just started wearing glasses,I don’t think many other people will have this issue .I would feel much better if this sight had an adjustable pin that was separate from th electro dot that did require batteries to work and only when you triggered the rangefinder would the electro dot appear to give you your hold over .with my luck I would b hunting in late season in freezing temp and a monster buck would step and the battery die at that very moment.its a great sight but not for my type of hunting .with the high speed setups I hunt with (340fps) give or take I just set my pin dead on at 32 yards and aim at the top of the heart and kill ever deer from 0-43 yards with out any adjustments to my sight .


I’m really surprised you could not get the dot in focus even with glasses. 
The amount of adjustment to minimize the halo and the dot to be very clear is quite a bit. 
Really interesting as why the target wouldn’t stay in focus since it’s no different than shooting a standard sight as for target clarity 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Toxo-Philite

ontarget7 said:


> For that particular arrow and bow specs, max is 95 yards
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!!
That helps a lot.


----------



## 0nepin

I have no idea myself but I’m also having a similar issue .shooting through a rifle scope.i believe my glasses are not quite right for me . I did the 1000 yard milk jug challenge on the 7th and had to do without my glasses on but I ended up hitting the jug 3 out of five shots with a 6.5 creedmoor shooting 143gr eld x bullets at 2675fps with 33.5 moa dialed into the scope.(I know that was off the subject,just bragging a little lol ).


ontarget7 said:


> I’m really surprised you could not get the dot in focus even with glasses.
> The amount of adjustment to minimize the halo and the dot to be very clear is quite a bit.
> Really interesting as why the target wouldn’t stay in focus since it’s no different than shooting a standard sight as for target clarity
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## svernatter

Whaack said:


> Not true at all. Method of take has a LOT to do with game populations. Why do you think archery season is months long in most states and gun season is usually only a few days or a couple weeks at best? It's because the efficacy of the method of take. If we continue to make archery more and more effictive then populations will continue to decline unless they shorten the seasons and reduce the number of tags issued. This is kinda basic stuff.


In some states maybe. In NC bow season is from Sept 9 to Oct 27 and gun was Nov 11 to Jan 1. I don't like it but that's how it is. NC is more worried with licensing revenue than the herd. Most people want to gun hunt so that is what they cater too. It is going be even worse next year. 9 weeks of gun I think is what had been proposed..... 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

0nepin said:


> I have no idea myself but I’m also having a similar issue .shooting through a rifle scope.i believe my glasses are not quite right for me . I did the 1000 yard milk jug challenge on the 7th and had to do without my glasses on but I ended up hitting the jug 3 out of five shots with a 6.5 creedmoor shooting 143gr eld x bullets at 2675fps with 33.5 moa dialed into the scope.(I know that was off the subject,just bragging a little lol ).


26 Nosler would do you better 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 0nepin

No doubt the 26 Nosler or 6.5 Weatherby would be much better choices .I’m going to try the mile here the next few weeks with a Remington sendero in 7mm mag with a badger ordnance 20 moa rail and night force 5x20x56 scope shooting 168 gr accubond long range .had to bed the recoil lug and then skim bed the action and install a 1.5lb timney trigger to get this particular gun to shoot ,but now I consistently shot 1/2-1/4 groups at 100 yards .even with a Muzzle velocity of 3,035 fps with a 168gt bullet with a BC of .652 and 300 yard zero I will still have to dial up 64ish moa to account for the 105 feet of drop at 1 mile .the wind will be the hard part of course.


ontarget7 said:


> 26 Nosler would do you better
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

0nepin said:


> No doubt the 26 Nosler or 6.5 Weatherby would be much better choices .I’m going to try the mile here the next few weeks with a Remington sendero in 7mm mag with a badger ordnance 20 moa rail and night force 5x20x56 scope shooting 168 gr accubond long range .had to bed to the recoil lug and then skim bed the action and install a 1.5lb timney trigger to get this particular gun to shoot ,but now I consistently shot 1/2-1/4 groups at 100 yards .even with a Muzzle velocity of 3,035 fps with a 168gt bullet with a BC of .652 and 300 yard zero I will still have to dial up 64ish moa to account for the 105 feet of drop at 1 mile .the wind will be the hard part of course.


----------



## Mohegan

SO
Where is it made? Read every post up till someone ask where it's made, then I started speed scrolling, didn't catch the answer, or did I miss it?
I'm about as old school whitetail hunter as you can get with a compound bow, and a release aid, and photocromatic sight pins, and-you get the idea.
Don't own a rangefinder, never have. Used to use a pendulum sight, went to 4 pin, put up different colored flagging tape at measured distances (with a tape in the off season). This Garmin sight is a game changer. I need one of these in my life, I'm ALL for it, everything else is now obsolete, the option of knowing precisely how far game is before I release that arrow is paramount, especially for underneath the stand shots. I would just like to know where they are made.


----------



## The Old Guy

Doty Bumb said:


> Most hunters pick up a bow for the challenge it promotes. Then some begin to hang every latest gizmo on their bow to make it less challenging............ Go figure.


Why use a compound bow? Why not use a long bow with wooden arrows? Why not use a spear? How do you differentiate what improvements are still a “challenge,” and improvements that make it less challenging?


----------



## bhutso

Mohegan said:


> SO
> Where is it made? Read every post up till someone ask where it's made, then I started speed scrolling, didn't catch the answer, or did I miss it?
> I'm about as old school whitetail hunter as you can get with a compound bow, and a release aid, and photocromatic sight pins, and-you get the idea.
> Don't own a rangefinder, never have. Used to use a pendulum sight, went to 4 pin, put up different colored flagging tape at measured distances (with a tape in the off season). This Garmin sight is a game changer. I need one of these in my life, I'm ALL for it, everything else is now obsolete, the option of knowing precisely how far game is before I release that arrow is paramount, especially for underneath the stand shots. I would just like to know where they are made.


I looked and can’t seem to find an answer as to exactly where this is produced 

Garmin claims that all of its products are done “in house” so no outsourcing is what I read that as 

The have locations in Kansas, Oregon, the UK, and Taiwan

So I would guess it’s on of those places 

Sorry 
Best I can come up with


----------



## DougKMN

Just what I need..... another reason to buy the Fenix 5. My Fenix 3 is still ticking, but the thinner bezel and wrist hrm have me eyeballing the 5....

I've been considering replacing my sight (hha optimizer) with the Apex covert pro, possibly adding a lens. 

This would allow me to drop my rangefinder, though I'd probably still keep it for firearms hunting. 

So, if you consider a 250 dollar sight, plus a 350 dollar rangefinder the price isn't that unreasonable. Add in the smarts for it to determine exact pin placement for any range, plus the shot coaching, and the price of the a1 is right on point. 

Add a compatible garmin gps and the added features of the a1i are more than worth it. 

Now, to those commenting on laziness. From researching, this sight is worthless without range time. It's not like a rifle scope where you can bore sight it and be ready to go, something which some firearms hunters do. As this requires you to shoot and give feedback for the sight to learn where the ranges line up, this isn't something where you can slap it on and only fire a shot or 2 to be "on target". Likewise, as not everyone anchors the same, it's not like I could just pick up Shane's bow and instantly be on target, so a "lazy" person couldn't pay someone else to sight it in for them. 

Imo, 95 percent of bow hunting occurs before you even draw the string back. This sight doesn't draw deer to you, nor does it take the shot. If you are set up in a bad spot, this sight won't help you. And even when presented with an animal, this sight does not guarantee success. 

What it does, is eliminate the need to split pins if you're Shooting multiple pins, and automatically ranges the pin if you're Shooting a slider. It provides some statistics that help you shoot better. It simplifies the moment of truth a bit, but it doesn't make it so a lazy hunter is more successful. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Mohegan

bhutso said:


> I looked and can’t seem to find an answer as to exactly where this is produced
> 
> Garmin claims that all of its products are done “in house” so no outsourcing is what I read that as
> 
> The have locations in Kansas, Oregon, the UK, and Taiwan
> 
> So I would guess it’s on of those places
> 
> Sorry
> Best I can come up with


Thanks for looking!


----------



## kicker338

ontarget7 said:


> Your just a better Indian than me
> 
> I didn’t find it as accurate as a regular pin myself and the reason for not still shooting it.
> 
> I do find it a little funny to even compare the two sights, as there is no comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was threw with this thread but I will awnser your post here shane. I should have said me the indian couldn't shoot one better than the other.


----------



## KalinC14

Will be curious to see how it works. I will not be getting it because i can not afford a $1000 sight, but still curious about how it will work


----------



## pdj

I just stumbled on to this thread about this new sight technology. If I may interject something about red dot scopes -they are about focusing on the intended target and super imposing the dot not focusing on both. I competed with a handgun IPSC with a dot and now use a Trijicon RMR on my carry gun and the whole objective is to eliminate all but one focal point. If this sight is as I think have read this also is intended to be shot this way. Sounds pretty cool and innovative and anything that helps an archer put an accurate arrow downrange is a good thing in my opinion.


----------



## jmack73

Jason, Don't send it back! I have a Trijicon MRO with and ARD and two mounts I'll trade ya for it.


0nepin said:


> I have no idea myself but I’m also having a similar issue .shooting through a rifle scope.i believe my glasses are not quite right for me . I did the 1000 yard milk jug challenge on the 7th and had to do without my glasses on but I ended up hitting the jug 3 out of five shots with a 6.5 creedmoor shooting 143gr eld x bullets at 2675fps with 33.5 moa dialed into the scope.(I know that was off the subject,just bragging a little lol ).


----------



## Mohegan

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/573347/pn/010-01781-00#specs


----------



## mxz500ss

DougKMN said:


> Just what I need..... another reason to buy the Fenix 5. My Fenix 3 is still ticking, but the thinner bezel and wrist hrm have me eyeballing the 5....
> 
> I've been considering replacing my sight (hha optimizer) with the Apex covert pro, possibly adding a lens.
> 
> This would allow me to drop my rangefinder, though I'd probably still keep it for firearms hunting.
> 
> So, if you consider a 250 dollar sight, plus a 350 dollar rangefinder the price isn't that unreasonable. Add in the smarts for it to determine exact pin placement for any range, plus the shot coaching, and the price of the a1 is right on point.
> 
> Add a compatible garmin gps and the added features of the a1i are more than worth it.
> 
> Now, to those commenting on laziness. From researching, this sight is worthless without range time. It's not like a rifle scope where you can bore sight it and be ready to go, something which some firearms hunters do. As this requires you to shoot and give feedback for the sight to learn where the ranges line up, this isn't something where you can slap it on and only fire a shot or 2 to be "on target". Likewise, as not everyone anchors the same, it's not like I could just pick up Shane's bow and instantly be on target, so a "lazy" person couldn't pay someone else to sight it in for them.
> 
> Imo, 95 percent of bow hunting occurs before you even draw the string back. This sight doesn't draw deer to you, nor does it take the shot. If you are set up in a bad spot, this sight won't help you. And even when presented with an animal, this sight does not guarantee success.
> 
> What it does, is eliminate the need to split pins if you're Shooting multiple pins, and automatically ranges the pin if you're Shooting a slider. It provides some statistics that help you shoot better. It simplifies the moment of truth a bit, but it doesn't make it so a lazy hunter is more successful.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I would agree you still need to practice and execute the the shot having a accurate range is nothing but good. I would find this sight very helpful for shots along fields or cut corn as there is nothing to range like trees so if the deer is moving you would be able to get accurate yardage, I see nothing bad about this sight but would like more feedback once people are shooting it to see if you really can get rid of the fuzziness of the pin that that comes with old eyes also you could set up the A1i for different bows.


----------



## Belo

Doty Bumb said:


> Most hunters pick up a bow for the challenge it promotes. Then some begin to hang every latest gizmo on their bow to make it less challenging............ Go figure.


I think it's great that hunters will have a choice. I also think the hardest part about archery hunting isn't the shot, but getting the animal close enough and in the right position and not being busted on the draw. So this site doesn't do anything to aid in the most difficult aspects of archery, but it will hopeful lead to less wounded animals.


----------



## Belo

MAD 6 said:


> $1000 to spend on a bow or Sight? I can buy a sight for $100 but not a bow so I would spend it on a bow. $1000 bow and $1000 sight? I'll buy a gun.


some of us already have a gun...or several.

I also already have a range finder, but you can look at some of the nicer sites and rangefinders and when combined they equal the cost of the site. For those not on a budget it's a cool idea. Those that don't want to buy it or can't afford to will still kill deer just fine. 

I like the fact that there's a company (specifically one not traditionally associated with hunting other than helping us not get lost) that is trying new things and innovating.


----------



## Belo

ontarget7 said:


> I’m really surprised you could not get the dot in focus even with glasses.
> The amount of adjustment to minimize the halo and the dot to be very clear is quite a bit.
> Really interesting as why the target wouldn’t stay in focus since it’s no different than shooting a standard sight as for target clarity
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


a stigmatizim can make any site difficult, I'd imagine a glass reticle and led pin would add to that issue for someone with this problem. Usually glasses can correct it, but maybe not in his case or perhaps your setup is off. I'd see your optometrist regardless.


----------



## ontarget7

Belo said:


> a stigmatizim can make any site difficult, I'd imagine a glass reticle and led pin would add to that issue for someone with this problem. Usually glasses can correct it, but maybe not in his case.


I’m speaking from experience, as I have a stigmatizim [emoji6] 

Explained it in one of my videos on the Xero 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## j.d.m.

I actually like the idea of this sight, but I cringe at the cost of the total rig accidentally being dropped from a tree stand. Will be looking into how rugged this sight actually is.


----------



## WYelkhunter

I really don't see how this is any different than ranging an animal with a handheld range finder and then using the proper pin. You still have to be able to hold steady and make a shot to set up the sight by shooting different distances and adjusting it just like a fixed pin sight. I honestly don't see where this sight does anything for you. You have to sight the sight in just like regular sight. You have to push a button to range the animal just like a regular rangefinder. The only thing it does is it only shows one pin when you are ready to shoot, thus eliminating the chance of using the wrong pin if you have done your part right.

I wont be using one because it costs way to much for me. I have a range finder I bought used for $75 and I have been using for about 8 years now, if I replace it, it will be with another cheap used one. My 5 pin sight cost me about $55 new and have never wished I had a different one. 

The weight is also a consideration. at 14+ ounces that is pretty heavy compared to my 4.2 oz sight.


----------



## Belo

WYelkhunter said:


> I really don't see how this is any different than ranging an animal with a handheld range finder and then using the proper pin. You still have to be able to hold steady and make a shot to set up the sight by shooting different distances and adjusting it just like a fixed pin sight. I honestly don't see where this sight does anything for you. You have to sight the sight in just like regular sight. You have to push a button to range the animal just like a regular rangefinder. The only thing it does is it only shows one pin when you are ready to shoot, thus eliminating the chance of using the wrong pin if you have done your part right.
> 
> I wont be using one because it costs way to much for me. I have a range finder I bought used for $75 and I have been using for about 8 years now, if I replace it, it will be with another cheap used one. My 5 pin sight cost me about $55 new and have never wished I had a different one.
> 
> The weight is also a consideration. at 14+ ounces that is pretty heavy compared to my 4.2 oz sight.


the way i understand it is that the pin moves and adjusts precisely. So no more 20, 30, 40 pin and no need to range first. So if you're caught with your pants down you're ready to go and less movement.

I do agree that if you're not hunting open spaces or fields and all your lanes are pretty locked in, there's not a huge benefit for the cost.


----------



## ontarget7

Belo said:


> the way i understand it is that the pin moves and adjusts precisely. So no more 20, 30, 40 pin and no need to range first. So if you're caught with your pants down you're ready to go and less movement.
> 
> I do agree that if you're not hunting open spaces or fields and all your lanes are pretty locked in, there's not a huge benefit for the cost.


If your not exact on holdover shots up close you can miss by a fair amount. 

This sight shines when it comes to those right under treestand shots. Among other areas 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## frog gigger

Belo said:


> I think it's great that hunters will have a choice. I also think the hardest part about archery hunting isn't the shot, but getting the animal close enough and in the right position and not being busted on the draw. So this site doesn't do anything to aid in the most difficult aspects of archery, but it will hopeful lead to less wounded animals.


I think it's absolutely the hardest part. 
It's amazing the number of deer missed under 20 yds. Why? 
Not the range, not the pin, but the nerves.


----------



## SDMac

Question about the GPS feature on the A1i... Do you also have to purchase a Garmin GPS or is there a download say for IPhone?


----------



## bhutso

frog gigger said:


> I think it's absolutely the hardest part.
> It's amazing the number of deer missed under 20 yds. Why?
> Not the range, not the pin, but the nerves.


Good point 

Do they make a sight for nerves?


----------



## frog gigger

I thought it was the Garmin.


----------



## bhutso

frog gigger said:


> I thought it was the Garmin.


There’s no telling what it can and can’t do 
Judging by the misinformation spread by haters maybe it does 

I’ll find out soon 

That would be awesome


----------



## bhutso

Not sure If I should kill 20 deer next year to prove it’s a benifit 
Or kill none to prove it’s fair 

I guess I’ll just do what I always do and kill a couple


----------



## frog gigger

^^^Me too.


----------



## rockyw

Not to toss water on hot item but I was told by someone they handled this sight and found the range finder hard to use. They said you had to be perfect on your anchor to get a correct range. The pictures of someone just holding and ranging they said was not very accurate. For this reason alone they said they would not buy one. Just something to think about.


----------



## bigbucks170

TTT for the Top new sight ....always checking this thread for updates , I won't need a manual by the time it gets here lol


----------



## bassinbob

rockyw said:


> Not to toss water on hot item but I was told by someone they handled this sight and found the range finder hard to use. They said you had to be perfect on your anchor to get a correct range. The pictures of someone just holding and ranging they said was not very accurate. For this reason alone they said they would not buy one. Just something to think about.


What does your anchor have to do with a range finder? Nothing!!!


----------



## COArrow

rockyw said:


> Not to toss water on hot item but I was told by someone they handled this sight and found the range finder hard to use. They said you had to be perfect on your anchor to get a correct range. The pictures of someone just holding and ranging they said was not very accurate. For this reason alone they said they would not buy one. Just something to think about.


Have you used the sight?


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



rockyw said:


> Not to toss water on hot item but I was told by someone they handled this sight and found the range finder hard to use. They said you had to be perfect on your anchor to get a correct range. The pictures of someone just holding and ranging they said was not very accurate. For this reason alone they said they would not buy one. Just something to think about.


I’m guessing they don’t quite know how to use it. 
You can range it while at brace or full draw and it doesn’t get much easier. 
I know Leica is known for having inaccurate rangefinders and the Xero was right on with it [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trial153

I am looking forward to playing with this sight. I gave a lot worse idea a try and I am none worse for the wear. 
On a side note the EZ V interjections in every thread possible is about the most annoying **** I ever saw.


----------



## bhutso

rockyw said:


> Not to toss water on hot item but I was told by someone they handled this sight and found the range finder hard to use. They said you had to be perfect on your anchor to get a correct range. The pictures of someone just holding and ranging they said was not very accurate. For this reason alone they said they would not buy one. Just something to think about.


I was told by a guy who put it on his bow, sighted it in and walked around ranging stuff and shooting that it was easy and works well

There’s even video of him doing it somewhere 


Good enough for me to spend the money and see what I think


----------



## JMCFAN

trial153 said:


> I am looking forward to playing with this sight. I gave a lot worse idea a try and I am none worse for the wear.
> On a side note the EZ V interjections in every thread possible is about the most annoying **** I ever saw.


:thumbs_up


----------



## dugabob

Ryjax said:


> If you can’t get a rangefinder to work on deer moving through where you are shooting then it would be too thick to shoot an arrow... I hunt some thick stuff and never had an issue with ranging except in the fog.. troll on..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


what range finder do you use?

thanks


----------



## Dold12

Awesome sight, should lead to more quick clean kills, which is what is all about but the price tag is tough to swallow!


----------



## arrowm

TAIL~~CHASER said:


> Just curious if you experimented with the vertical line we discussed on a different thread?


A few have put a line of thread down the middle but...if you stack one object (wire or pin) on top of another (target) your mind starts to pre analyze and correct (panic)..

The Open view is the key to the E-Z-V Sights quick target acquisition and anxiety free aiming, like instinctive....


----------



## arrowm

trial153 said:


> I am looking forward to playing with this sight. I gave a lot worse idea a try and I am none worse for the wear.
> On a side note the EZ V interjections in every thread possible is about the most annoying **** I ever saw.


Ouch....just my $.02...same topic I have been preaching for years


----------



## arrowm

Their sight truly is revolutionary, not taking away from that. As bowhunters we need to be BETTER. If you've done this a while, you've sent an arrow high or low..

Couple years ago I said "great archers miss deer completely"....many said I was the only one

Obviously not

Salute! Kudo's to archery innovation!

Maybe we could find a Buckmasters type event to rate shooting accuracy with time...in the woods I guess! Well, I dont "guess" in the woods anymore, LOL

Good hunting ya'll

Aaron
>>>-------------->


----------



## pabuck

Shane, I think I have a question that hasn’t been asked yet. As dumb as it sounds, how do you range a specific target? What I mean by this is do you just center the object in the housing? How do you know that the laser is hitting the object you want it to? 

The new IQ sight tells you to use your 20 yard pin to range with but the Xero sight just has a blank screen.

I know how hard it is to put my crosshairs of my leupold rangefinder on a deer at 40-50 yards when excited and this would be a lot harder without the crosshairs. I wouldn’t want to be second guessing my sight reading at 50 yards (did it hit the deer or the tree when it gave me my reading).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ronc80

Good question!

I won't tell you what I don't know


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> Shane, I think I have a question that hasn’t been asked yet. As dumb as it sounds, how do you range a specific target? What I mean by this is do you just center the object in the housing? How do you know that the laser is hitting the object you want it to?
> 
> The new IQ sight tells you to use your 20 yard pin to range with but the Xero sight just has a blank screen.
> 
> I know how hard it is to put my crosshairs of my leupold rangefinder on a deer at 40-50 yards when excited and this would be a lot harder without the crosshairs. I wouldn’t want to be second guessing my sight reading at 50 yards (did it hit the deer or the tree when it gave me my reading).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The rangefinder has an aiming reference in the housing (pin)
According to one of the videos I watched the first step of setup is to adjust the housing so that the red pin which aims the rangefinder is centered in a green circle for you at full draw 

Looks a lot like a retina lock from the pics 

However they did it (don’t fully understand) but once these two references are lined up the you have an accurate aim point for the rangefinder


----------



## pabuck

bhutso said:


> The rangefinder has an aiming reference in the housing (pin)
> According to one of the videos I watched the first step of setup is to adjust the housing so that the red pin which aims the rangefinder is centered in a green circle for you at full draw
> 
> Looks a lot like a retina lock from the pics
> 
> However they did it (don’t fully understand) but once these two references are lined up the you have an accurate aim point for the rangefinder


Thanks for the info!! I’m so close to pulling the trigger on one. I have the PayPal invoice from God’s Country for $856.99 just waiting for me to hit accept!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

pabuck said:


> Thanks for the info!! I’m so close to pulling the trigger on one. I have the PayPal invoice from God’s Country for $856.99 just waiting for me to hit accept!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Pretty dang good price but it’s a lot to spend 
I was there a few days ago lol


----------



## rockyw

> I’m guessing they don’t quite know how to use it.
> You can range it while at brace or full draw and it doesn’t get much easier.


With a range finder you put an X on the object and get the range. If you move around any the range changes as it hits other objects. Don't you use the dot to aim this range finder? Wouldn't that change depending on the angle your looking from, brace height or full draw? That's all my friend told me, he is not a rookie and knows his equipment. Just what I heard, we will see as people use it.


----------



## bigbucks170

I will make a cover for the sight or like someone else mentioned maybe some flip up scope covers would be cool , something to keep snow or rain out and protect the scope ....


----------



## ShootingABN!

trial153 said:


> I am looking forward to playing with this sight. I gave a lot worse idea a try and I am none worse for the wear.
> On a side note the EZ V interjections in every thread possible is about the most annoying **** I ever saw.


I think the Nitehawk peeps take 1st place! Maybe he'll come on here and say you need his peep with this sight and you'll hit every time!


----------



## ontarget7

rockyw said:


> With a range finder you put an X on the object and get the range. If you move around any the range changes as it hits other objects. Don't you use the dot to aim this range finder? Wouldn't that change depending on the angle your looking from, brace height or full draw? That's all my friend told me, he is not a rookie and knows his equipment. Just what I heard, we will see as people use it.



You have your circle ⭕ reticle and then you have your dot as a pin. When those to line up it calculates your ranged target and angle compensation for the shot. This tells the program where the pin shows up in the screen and does not matter if it’s used at full draw or brace. You would line both up the same way to get the correct reading. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ShootingABN!

Shane,

Just encase I've missed it? What warranty will they have?


----------



## ontarget7

ShootingABN! said:


> Shane,
> 
> Just encase I've missed it? What warranty will they have?


Not a clue but will see if I can find out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ShootingABN!

ontarget7 said:


> Not a clue but will see if I can find out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks.


----------



## ronin001

My question is this the red or green dot like a "either a reflex sight or a holosight you do not need to have your eye aligned with the sight tube/scope, or sight axis"? The way I see it once sited in will more or less peepless not saying not to use one just the dot may or may not be affected with head placement or will it give some error relief like a reflex or holosights?


----------



## ontarget7

ronin001 said:


> My question is this the red or green dot like a "either a reflex sight or a holosight you do not need to have your eye aligned with the sight tube/scope, or sight axis"? The way I see it once sited in will more or less peepless not saying not to use one just the dot may or may not be affected with head placement or will it give some error relief like a reflex or holosights?


That, I do not know. 

I’ll I can say is it hits behind the dot for me out to 95 yards and that’s and different angle etc 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rodmc071

That's a crazy looking. Garmin is an established and reputable sports brand and this is an interesting piece of innovation that they have come up with.


----------



## Creeks N Ridges

Every manufacturer under the sky will be putting these out in 2 to 3 years, let all the GOT TO HAVE IT guys work all the bugs out first...Cause their will be bugs and things that will need to be changed/looked at....after that, you can get you killer set up for 300 to 400 ...Max.....Just a thought from your Uncle Earl


----------



## bhutso

Creeks N Ridges said:


> Every manufacturer under the sky will be putting these out in 2 to 3 years, let all the GOT TO HAVE IT guys work all the bugs out first...Cause their will be bugs and things that will need to be changed/looked at....after that, you can get you killer set up for 300 to 400 ...Max.....Just a thought from your Uncle Earl


Along the same lines 

If no one buys it and try’s it out 
Then the rest of the market will see it as we don’t want them.

Garmin will stop making it 
No one else will spend the R&D funds to make their own 

So you need the “gotta have it now guys”. So you can have a deal later 

Maybe 

I’m definitely not convinced companies like spot hogg or truball who have nothing to do with electronics 
Are just waiting a couple years to come out with a cheaper better version of this 
But when or if they do I would go ahead and wait 2-3 more years for them to work thier bugs out 

Gonna be exciting times 4-6 years from now 
Unless your wrong and it doesn’t happen


----------



## Wyoming Shooter

Garmin has significantly more experience and capability to manufacture electronics than do the other archery gear manufacturers. Plus, Garmin has the head start. It may take awhile for competitors to catch up.


----------



## 2wheelercustoms

The BIG question is: Can the average Bowhunter afford it?....my guess is probably not. Just my 2 cents worth 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Especially if the LED technology that gives you a projected pin is patented 

Yes others have used holographic dots but not with the ability to move them in seemingly infinite amounts across the face the lens 

Just like the IQ 
Sure lots of companies can slap a rangefinder on a sight 
But it sure isn’t like this


----------



## Willyboys

OK. I am up to date through Page 37 and 900 plus postings. Probably there were 50 - 75 that were relevant to the subject. The rest satisfied a need to be heard. :sad:


----------



## bhutso

Willyboys said:


> OK. I am up to date through Page 37 and 900 plus postings. Probably there were 50 - 75 that were relevant to the subject. The rest satisfied a need to be heard. :sad:


Ironic


----------



## Willyboys

bhutso said:


> Ironic


You're right, of course. Sorry to add to the BS! And again, for this post!!


----------



## bhutso

Willyboys said:


> You're right, of course. Sorry to add to the BS! And again, for this post!!


Take a joke 

It’s caused a lot of conversation and disagreement 
Most things do here


----------



## bhutso

For info on the sight check out Shane’s videos 
They answer a lot of questions people have without having to wade through the bs


----------



## wis. bowhunter

I have a question for shane. In one of your videos you talk about this sight having a feature on it which shows when you are torquing the bow. Is this where it shows you the roll on the screen.? And is this feature on both of the sights they offer or just the A1i Thanks


----------



## ontarget7

wis. bowhunter said:


> I have a question for shane. In one of your videos you talk about this sight having a feature on it which shows when you are torquing the bow. Is this where it shows you the roll on the screen.? And is this feature on both of the sights they offer or just the A1i Thanks


It’s on both sights
It’s part of the setup process. You will see the circle ⭕ and then your pin dot. It will take you through a series of steps that are very user friendly to get these lining up. I recommend doing this process after your bow is tuned to your liking. Then go through the process of setup so it jives on the money with your grip to that said tune. 

Hope that made sense 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wis. bowhunter

ontarget7 said:


> It’s on both sights
> It’s part of the setup process. You will see the circle ⭕ and then your pin dot. It will take you through a series of steps that are very user friendly to get these lining up. I recommend doing this process after your bow is tuned to your liking. Then go through the process of setup so it jives on the money with your grip to that said tune.
> 
> Hope that made sense
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you sir


----------



## ontarget7

wis. bowhunter said:


> Thank you sir





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Belo

Creeks N Ridges said:


> Every manufacturer under the sky will be putting these out in 2 to 3 years, let all the GOT TO HAVE IT guys work all the bugs out first...Cause their will be bugs and things that will need to be changed/looked at....after that, you can get you killer set up for 300 to 400 ...Max.....Just a thought from your Uncle Earl





bhutso said:


> Along the same lines
> 
> If no one buys it and try’s it out
> Then the rest of the market will see it as we don’t want them.
> 
> Garmin will stop making it
> No one else will spend the R&D funds to make their own
> 
> So you need the “gotta have it now guys”. So you can have a deal later
> 
> Maybe
> 
> I’m definitely not convinced companies like spot hogg or truball who have nothing to do with electronics
> Are just waiting a couple years to come out with a cheaper better version of this
> But when or if they do I would go ahead and wait 2-3 more years for them to work thier bugs out
> 
> Gonna be exciting times 4-6 years from now
> Unless your wrong and it doesn’t happen


I agree with both points. But I also sense there is some sticker shock. I'm not exactly poor, but a grand is tough for a site, especially if you're also looking for a new bow at the same time. I think the hype and interest is enough for others to jump in. The problem I see with the comp is that garmin will have more experience, better tech, bigger budget and most likely some patents. Making some of the comp maybe cheaper but lesser quality.

And if the options are either too expensive or low quality, the fad will die like many others and be another chapter in the book of gimmicks. I'm hoping it's not because I truly see the value here. Heck, I'd love to see some trackable broadheads that sync up to your garmin gps/watch in one nice all-in-one system. I think a lot of folks would be interested in buying a system where they can add on features like stand locations, arrow tracking, path mapping etc.


----------



## trf

Remember what the iPhone did to the cell phone business. This is what the Xero will eventually do to the bow sight business. Of course hunters who are happy with their fixed pins and slider sights can still use them just like cell phone customers could keep using their flip phones. But we all know how that worked out. 

The price of the Xero is stiff and even though it appears to be a solid well thought out piece of electronics there will be bugs to work out. But over time the price will come down due to competition and the bugs will disappear. 

And has been said the Xero still will not prevent a bad shot. Over the last several years I blew two shots. The first was due to poor range estimation. The Xero likely would have helped on that one. On the second one I dropped by bow arm. Nothing would have helped that.

I'll probably get an Xero but it might not be this year. I think the Xero is a game changer and is just the beginning of some huge advances in bow sight technology over the next five to ten years.


----------



## bowhunter 28

Waste of money imo .... rather use that 900 for something else 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## arrowm

Belo said:


> I think it's great that hunters will have a choice. I also think the hardest part about archery hunting isn't the shot, but getting the animal close enough and in the right position and not being busted on the draw. So this site doesn't do anything to aid in the most difficult aspects of archery, but it will hopeful lead to less wounded animals.


My whole point to chiming in...the Garmin is obviously something different but its a tool to answer the same question everyone dismissed me asking when we launched. "Why do great "archers" miss deer completely every year? Hitting ping pong balls at 80 yds is "archery"...shooting a fist sized group fast in the center of his chest from ANY distance is "Bowhunting"..

And Yes BHutso, the V ranging is for distances 50yds and in for most, when time and movement are key...hopefully the Indians can sneak in that close...

Sorry to butt in but same task to overcome, different schools to accomplish it..

Maybe at the pop-up tournament in Missoula this year we'll see..

Enjoy innovation, strive to be "better" at what we do...that I hope we can all agree is the goal

Aaron
>>>----------->


----------



## bhutso

arrowm said:


> My whole point to chiming in...the Garmin is obviously something different but its a tool to answer the same question everyone dismissed me asking when we launched. "Why do great "archers" miss deer completely every year? Hitting ping pong balls at 80 yds is "archery"...shooting a fist sized group fast in the center of his chest from ANY distance is "Bowhunting"..
> 
> And Yes BHutso, the V ranging is for distances 50yds and in for most, when time and movement are key...hopefully the Indians can sneak in that close...
> 
> Sorry to butt in but same task to overcome, different schools to accomplish it..
> 
> Maybe at the pop-up tournament in Missoula this year we'll see..
> 
> Enjoy innovation, strive to be "better" at what we do...that I hope we can all agree is the goal
> 
> Aaron
> >>>----------->


If I could shoot fist size groups in the The vitals from any Hunting distance even a majority of the time with the V I Would not be spending more of the money I work for on a Garmin 
Tick marks? No problem, shot it well like that out to 30-35
Using the V never worked for me
I flat out missed 3D deer Targets and lost arrows trying to use it 
And anything past 35/40 the V got too small for me 

Not really interested in taking the fastest shot possible 
I’m interested in the most accurate 
If this makes that accurate shot a fraction faster then I’ll be happy
But I won’t lose accuracy over a pin so it’s win win


----------



## RW29

nvcnvc said:


> Not legal in California! I guess I saved $800....darn!


I think it may be legal in California. Just as long as it doesn't project a beam of light or an actual dot on the animal.


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> If I could shoot fist size groups in the The vitals from any Hunting distance even a majority of the time with the V I Would not be spending more of the money I work for on a Garmin
> Tick marks? No problem, shot it well like that out to 30-35
> Using the V never worked for me
> I flat out missed 3D deer Targets and lost arrows trying to use it
> And anything past 35/40 the V got too small for me
> 
> Not really interested in taking the fastest shot possible
> I’m interested in the most accurate
> If this makes that accurate shot a fraction faster then I’ll be happy
> But I won’t lose accuracy over a pin so it’s win win


I’m going to agree here
Accuracy is key, it doesn’t matter if the animal is at 3 yards or 100 yards. Anytime you can stack the odds in your favor and gain more accuracy is a good thing. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> I’m going to agree here
> Accuracy is key, it doesn’t matter if the animal is at 3 yards or 100 yards. Anytime you can stack the odds in your favor and gain more accuracy is a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like you said in one of the videos
> Once you trust the sight is doing what its suppose to do you can focus on making sure you do what you are suppose to do and execute the shot
> 
> I’ve been fortunate to have a time or two where a deer was feeding and unaware of me while I ranged, adjust the sight and took that perfect shot to the perfect yardage with the perfect pin it’s awesome!
> It’s the most accurate way to take a shot
> I don’t even think that can be debated
> But it just doesn’t go down that way often
> 
> This sight can give you the ability to make that kind of shot every time


----------



## arrowm

bhutso said:


> ontarget7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m going to agree here
> Accuracy is key, it doesn’t matter if the animal is at 3 yards or 100 yards. Anytime you can stack the odds in your favor and gain more accuracy is a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like you said in one of the videos
> Once you trust the sight is doing what its suppose to do you can focus on making sure you do what you are suppose to do and execute the shot
> 
> I’ve been fortunate to have a time or two where a deer was feeding and unaware of me while I ranged, adjust the sight and took that perfect shot to the perfect yardage with the perfect pin it’s awesome!
> It’s the most accurate way to take a shot
> I don’t even think that can be debated
> But it just doesn’t go down that way often
> 
> This sight can give you the ability to make that kind of shot every time
> 
> 
> 
> No argument here...hunting the Missouri Breaks every year, its all spot n stalk, nothing known...for years I ranged, set the pin and did very well...about half the time. The other instances, there simply is no time. The Garmin's ability to do so "at full draw" is truly cool...completely missing or worse wounding, not cool..
> 
> Sorry you couldnt "feel" the V..there's been a few that just couldn't, MOST have had extraordinary results out to 50, myself to 60..but you have to "let" your mind do it..
> 
> Anyway, Innovation is ALWAYS cool,
> 
> Good hunting!
> Aaron
> >>>------------>
Click to expand...


----------



## zwalls

you hit the nail on the head!


bhutso said:


> ontarget7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m going to agree here
> Accuracy is key, it doesn’t matter if the animal is at 3 yards or 100 yards. Anytime you can stack the odds in your favor and gain more accuracy is a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like you said in one of the videos
> Once you trust the sight is doing what its suppose to do you can focus on making sure you do what you are suppose to do and execute the shot
> 
> I’ve been fortunate to have a time or two where a deer was feeding and unaware of me while I ranged, adjust the sight and took that perfect shot to the perfect yardage with the perfect pin it’s awesome!
> It’s the most accurate way to take a shot
> I don’t even think that can be debated
> But it just doesn’t go down that way often
> 
> This sight can give you the ability to make that kind of shot every time
Click to expand...


----------



## bhutso

Hate to dig this back up 
But I just want to share this for any fellow Missouri hunters who question the sights legality 

It has been evacuated and deemed legal 
If you have questions about the legality of other sights hitting the market 
It would appear this is the best person to contact from the mo dnr


----------



## Debaser

This is an impressive sight. The only thing it lacks is a failsafe. I'd prefer if it had a manually set single pin slider that you can move and use even when the electronics break or batteries die. Give me the digital screen with the distance to target but let me manually set the slider like I do on my HHA. That way if it stopped working in the middle of a hunt I lose some functionality but still have a usable sight. I just lose the rangefinder.

That would be the best of both worlds in my opinion.


----------



## Thecougar

I don’t know if I live this or hate this. It’s also. Only legal in AZ, if you plan on hunting out west.


----------



## ontarget7

Thecougar said:


> I don’t know if I live this or hate this. It’s also. Only legal in AZ, if you plan on hunting out west.


We can stop with the false statements 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chachie444

I actually held one and it is not heavy seems built well just cannot justify the price.


----------



## bhutso

Thecougar said:


> I don’t know if I live this or hate this. It’s also. Only legal in AZ, if you plan on hunting out west.


I emailed my states dept of conservation 
They responded in about 24 hours 
I posted the email above 


No less than 5 people have come to various threads on this sight claiming that it would be illegal in my state 

Fake news is alive and well even on archerytalk 
It’s not just CNN 

The sight is legal in 41 out of 50 states to my knowledge 

But if anyone has doubts, ask your DNR don’t take your info from uninformed individuals with a keyboard


----------



## bghunter7311

bhutso said:


> Thecougar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know if I live this or hate this. It’s also. Only legal in AZ, if you plan on hunting out west.
> 
> 
> 
> I emailed my states dept of conservation
> They responded in about 24 hours
> I posted the email above
> 
> 
> No less than 5 people have come to various threads on this sight claiming that it would be illegal in my state
> 
> Fake news is alive and well even on archerytalk
> It’s not just CNN
> 
> The sight is legal in 41 out of 50 states to my knowledge
> 
> But if anyone has doubts, ask your DNR don’t take your info from uninformed individuals with a keyboard
Click to expand...

Better save that email when joe blow ranger rick implements his authority over you. I promise you when I lived in Pa they would fine you multiple times for that sight and probably tack on a few other citations.


----------



## bhutso

bghunter7311 said:


> Better save that email when joe blow ranger rick implements his authority over you. I promise you when I lived in Pa they would fine you multiple times for that sight and probably tack on a few other citations.


That’s nonsense

I personally know a few “ranger ricks”

They have the ability to enforce or not enforce certain things based on circumstances and interpretation of vaguey written laws 
(That’s why they write them that way)

But they can’t make a legal means of take situationally illegal on a whim


----------



## jacobh

No electronic devices unless specified by PGC


----------



## The Old Guy

Legal in Illinois, and I am likely going to own the A1. I don’t need it to sync to a watch.


----------



## Voz

Interesting... still collecting my thoughts...


----------



## ccure

still interested just not sure what my overall thoughts are.. pretty expensive


----------



## Belo

Thecougar said:


> I don’t know if I live this or hate this. It’s also. Only legal in AZ, if you plan on hunting out west.


is this a coherent thought? i'm confused by what you're trying to say.



Debaser said:


> This is an impressive sight. The only thing it lacks is a failsafe. I'd prefer if it had a manually set single pin slider that you can move and use even when the electronics break or batteries die. Give me the digital screen with the distance to target but let me manually set the slider like I do on my HHA. That way if it stopped working in the middle of a hunt I lose some functionality but still have a usable sight. I just lose the rangefinder.
> 
> That would be the best of both worlds in my opinion.


yeah i feel the same. I wonder how hard it would be to create a flip down single 20 yard pin. You wouldn't necessarily need to be able to deploy it while already drawn, but you would have the option if you happen to see your batteries died or the unit crashed.


----------



## Wyoming Shooter

It's on my "wish list". I'm waiting for more field reports before pressing "buy". Hopefully we'll have more data points from users before spring turkey season in WY and SD.


----------



## stevefancypix

Just too expensive for me. Plus, I like simplicity and the challenge of a bow. I feel like it's moving too far into the realm of firearms with this. Just me! SUPER COOL innovation though. Love Garmin!


----------



## BOONER2008

Tag


----------



## GaryinOK

Anybody seen one yet? They said Mid-February, well it's Mid-February. Website still says 5-8 weeks and when I called over there she said 5-8 weeks. Waiting for something cool sucks.


----------



## bhutso

GaryinOK said:


> Anybody seen one yet? They said Mid-February, well it's Mid-February. Website still says 5-8 weeks and when I called over there she said 5-8 weeks. Waiting for something cool sucks.


Still waiting 
Got an email yesterday saying end of February now


----------



## Mauritian

Who are some of the Garmin dealers on AT?


----------



## Bean Outdoors

Mauritian said:


> Who are some of the Garmin dealers on AT?


We are a authorized Garmin dealer...Garmin is telling us mid march now. Any new product you are at the mercy of the manufacturer. If you have questions or want to check pricing...feel free to contact us by pm or email [email protected]


----------



## GaryinOK

This is a tough one. IQ's define is said to be shipping out next week. It's not the same but still pretty cool. Going to be tough to wait until April to get my hands on the Garmin.


----------



## bhutso

GaryinOK said:


> This is a tough one. IQ's define is said to be shipping out next week. It's not the same but still pretty cool. Going to be tough to wait until April to get my hands on the Garmin.


If price is not a deterrent 
I think it will be worth the wait

However in a word where the Garmin didn’t exsist I would be all over the IQ


----------



## GaryinOK

Yeah I'm gonna wait it out. Just sold my slider though so now I am sightless. It will give me something to do this spring.


----------



## bhutso

GaryinOK said:


> Yeah I'm gonna wait it out. Just sold my slider though so now I am sightless. It will give me something to do this spring.


I hear ya 

Sold all my stuff too 
I got an old target sight pieced together just to get by for now


----------



## Belo

i'd rather them bump release to iron out bugs then crash and burn at launch. The way I see it, a few years from now this tech will get even better and many of us will have one version or another. But if it fails hard, its likely a big company like garmin wouldn't dip their toes back into a market that they're really not currently a part of.


----------



## Mauritian

I'm guessing factory production delays rather than ironing out bugs.


----------



## E.J.

I have a question that I don't think has been asked, but sorry if it has.

When the sight is in multi fixed pin mode, I assume it will still range a target. Is there a certain pin that it uses? Just curious. I will definitely be owning one. This technology is just too awesome not to try. Especially from Garmin!


----------



## bhutso

E.J. said:


> I have a question that I don't think has been asked, but sorry if it has.
> 
> When the sight is in multi fixed pin mode, I assume it will still range a target. Is there a certain pin that it uses? Just curious. I will definitely be owning one. This technology is just too awesome not to try. Especially from Garmin!


Anytime you hold the button down it will give you a dot and it will continually range 
The dot it gives you is the aim point for the rangefinder 
I believe this is “sighted in” during the setup. 

After that if you let off the button it gives you a single pin for the yardage you ranged 
Tap the button after that and it switches to fixed pins 
Hold the button and it ranges again 

This is what I understand from all I’ve seen 
Haven’t got my hands on it yet 
Hopefully this month


----------



## E.J.

bhutso said:


> Anytime you hold the button down it will give you a dot and it will continually range
> The dot it gives you is the aim point for the rangefinder
> I believe this is “sighted in” during the setup.
> 
> After that if you let off the button it gives you a single pin for the yardage you ranged
> Tap the button after that and it switches to fixed pins
> Hold the button and it ranges again
> 
> This is what I understand from all I’ve seen
> Haven’t got my hands on it yet
> Hopefully this month


Thanks for the info, yeah I get all of that. I was just specifically curious when you have your fixed pins up, what specific pin is used to range the target. Not a big deal, as we will figure it out when we get our hands on them. Didn't know if Shane knew about it specifically. I wouldn't think we would have to go through all those button presses just to get the fixed pins up. 

Soo, I guess what I'm asking is can we hunt and range with the fixed pins up at the same time, and if yes, what pin do we aim at the target for the correct range? Again, just curious, as I'm sure we'll all simply want to use the pop on screen range pin.


----------



## bhutso

E.J. said:


> Thanks for the info, yeah I get all of that. I was just specifically curious when you have your fixed pins up, what specific pin is used to range the target. Not a big deal, as we will figure it out when we get our hands on them. Didn't know if Shane knew about it specifically. I wouldn't think we would have to go through all those button presses just to get the fixed pins up.
> 
> Soo, I guess what I'm asking is can we hunt and range with the fixed pins up at the same time, and if yes, what pin do we aim at the target for the correct range? Again, just curious, as I'm sure we'll all simply want to use the pop on screen range pin.


If you want to range and use fixed pins you would hold the button like I said and range then let off and tap it again. 
Hold to range 
Tap to toggle from single to fixed and vise versa 

When it’s ranging with gives you a dot to aim with 
When it’s in fixed pin mode it’s not ranging nor can you range and stay in fixed pin mode 
That’s not the idea of the sight

Fixed pins are a backup


----------



## E.J.

bhutso said:


> If you want to range and use fixed pins you would hold the button like I said and range then let off and tap it again.
> Hold to range
> Tap to toggle from single to fixed and vise versa
> 
> When it’s ranging with gives you a dot to aim with
> When it’s in fixed pin mode it’s not ranging nor can you range and stay in fixed pin mode
> That’s not the idea of the sight
> 
> Fixed pins are a backup


I get it... Thanks!


----------



## ontarget7

Xero and the Triax should make for a great match




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

I had to get the Triax dialed in with the HHA to have on hand for those handful of states it’s not currently legal in. I’m actually glad I went through this process. Ive been shooting the HHA for about a month now and it’s actually making me appreciate the Xero even more than I thought I would. 
At first I was feeling under ideal conditions accuracy would probably be wash for me personally. However, after dialing in the Xero on the Triax I’m going to have to say that I feel accuracy is in fact better and overall group size to be tighter on average. 

I’m chalking this up to the highly adjustable led dot that I can completely eliminate the halo effect like I get with pins. Then you take the complete unobstructed field of view and I believe my overall accuracy has actually improved. 
You can just pin point precisely the spot you intend to hit much easier. 
For an item that I was a bit skeptical on at first, it is sure still impressing me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GaryinOK

Oh man that is a nice rig. OK they need to hurry up getting this thing released to the masses. So ready.


----------



## dnv23

Shane, did you have to alter your grip slightly to be able to use the button on the grip or have you noticed any grip inconsistencies using the button? I may pick one up next year instead of buying a bow, just want to see how they perform out in the field after people start getting them in their hands. Thanks!


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> Xero and the Triax should make for a great match
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sharp looking setup


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



dnv23 said:


> Shane, did you have to alter your grip slightly to be able to use the button on the grip or have you noticed any grip inconsistencies using the button? I may pick one up next year instead of buying a bow, just want to see how they perform out in the field after people start getting them in their hands. Thanks!


My fingers are relaxed in front of the riser so I have had zero issues. Range finder is a built in torque indicator as well if you wanted to verify




bhutso said:


> Sharp looking setup


Thanks
For me personally 
Probably the best overall setup I have had to date 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bcowette

Shane can you post any pictures of the inside of the sight housing/lense?


----------



## ontarget7

bcowette said:


> Shane can you post any pictures of the inside of the sight housing/lense?














Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## arrowm

https://www.facebook.com/CarbonTV/videos/vb.154100371465080/827665744108536/?type=2&theater

Lots of data...


----------



## survivalistd

Glad to read about this. I'm going to have to tell the girlfriend that I've found my b day gift now.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

I’m thinking 70 and 80 yards are dialed in 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kicker338

Good shooting, I watched Jim Burnworth do that at 90yds. on mountain sheep on his western extreme program. Unfortunately I'm neither you or Jim yet, still a work in progress lol.


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> I’m thinking 70 and 80 yards are dialed in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Guess it works in the snow


----------



## kurtzgreg1561

ontarget7 said:


> I’m thinking 70 and 80 yards are dialed in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shane, were you able or can you do some weather related hunting testing? Like to see how it does at 0° and in rain and snow. Any fogging of the lens? Batteries drain much faster in cold temps also. Any input would be greatly appreciated. This sight looks very good for a first addition. Thanks 

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie

survivalistd said:


> Glad to read about this. I'm going to have to tell the girlfriend that I've found my b day gift now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Damn...I need to find a better wife or girlfriend! LOL

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## Ragin-Cajun

ontarget7 said:


> Will keep you posted throughout the year, as I plan on using it exclusively on my hunting rig here in Utah. Not for seeing any issues at this point and feel it is a big enough improvement, I am sold on it.
> 
> been waiting on this sight. great way to eliminate a rangefinder and get accurately on a ranged target faster... i want one. you still have to shoot the bow... great thread.
> 
> i remember when compound bows came out and all the stick shooters said it was the end of archery.... crossbows get more people hunting and buying licenses but they piss on them too.. boobs.


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



kurtzgreg1561 said:


> Shane, were you able or can you do some weather related hunting testing? Like to see how it does at 0° and in rain and snow. Any fogging of the lens? Batteries drain much faster in cold temps also. Any input would be greatly appreciated. This sight looks very good for a first addition. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk


So far I have tested it down to -12 as well as rain and snow. I have not experienced any fogging. 

In those temps I find the battery reading to fluctuate a little. I will always keep an extra fresh set but so far I’ve been on the same set for 4 months 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## survivalistd

cbowie said:


> Damn...I need to find a better wife or girlfriend! LOL
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


Thats the secret I got rid of the wife after 24 years and ended up with a girlfriend 21 years younger and makes a lot of money. Lucky I guess.. and she loves to buy me my bows and accessories. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie

survivalistd said:


> Thats the secret I got rid of the wife after 24 years and ended up with a girlfriend 21 years younger and makes a lot of money. Lucky I guess.. and she loves to buy me my bows and accessories.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You are my hero! [emoji3]

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## mfisher1

Too bad hunting w it is illegal in my state


----------



## Diazonamide

What is the process like for setting up a bow out of the box (i.e., BS, BH, centershot, windage, etc.)?


----------



## 797truck

Diazonamide said:


> What is the process like for setting up a bow out of the box (i.e., BS, BH, centershot, windage, etc.)?


You can download the manual from the Garmin site (finally available now), it gives full instructions on set up.


----------



## kurtzgreg1561

ontarget7 said:


> So far I have tested it down to -12 as well as rain and snow. I have not experienced any fogging.
> 
> In those temps I find the battery reading to fluctuate a little. I will always keep an extra fresh set but so far I’ve been on the same set for 4 months
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Shane! 

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk


----------



## E.J.

I feel like I've watched all the videos, read everything there is to read and even looked at the manual. But when ranging in hunt mode, do you always have to align the circular recticle with the pin to get a range? Can we still get a range when simply shooting ranges at brace (not at full draw) and not aligning the recticle?


----------



## 45er

nvcnvc said:


> Not legal in California! I guess I saved $800....darn!


Other than staying in the state after entering illegally and smoking pot, is there anything that is allowed in the beautiful state of California? :wink:


----------



## ontarget7

E.J. said:


> I feel like I've watched all the videos, read everything there is to read and even looked at the manual. But when ranging in hunt mode, do you always have to align the circular recticle with the pin to get a range? Can we still get a range when simply shooting ranges at brace (not at full draw) and not aligning the recticle?


It’s easy to align it at brace or full draw. Lining them up will show you grip consistency as well as the right angle calculation to be the most accurate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

It is legal in California 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ragin-Cajun

shane. read ur earlier post. my HHA pin does flare on my old eyes in low light (i'll b 50 n sept . if this sight eliminates flaring, that pt. alone is a huge +++ for me.


----------



## survivalistd

45er said:


> Other than staying in the state after entering illegally and smoking pot, is there anything that is allowed in the beautiful state of California? :wink:


Nothing in the constitution is legal..

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

Ragin-Cajun said:


> shane. read ur earlier post. my HHA pin does flare on my old eyes in low light (i'll b 50 n sept . if this sight eliminates flaring, that pt. alone is a huge +++ for me.


It is highly adjustable and you can definitely eliminate that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

This sounds crazy but I think the Xero has spoiled me. I guess maybe do to my extremely busy schedule etc. 
I am finding I am less excited to grab my target setup and get it all dialed in. With the sight adjustments, cut sheets, separate range finder and so on. 
With the Triax and the Xero, I just pick up the bow and run with it. No need for all the adjustments, cut sheets, separate rangefinder etc. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jacobh

Shane so how hard is this thing to setup? Also it does have standard pins? So 20,30,40 and so on?? My fear is it dosent range correctly and it popping up the pin in wrong spot


----------



## chaded

Ohio is deciding on a proposal this year to allow rangefinders on bows so I am curious as to how that map is indicating Ohio being legal in 2016?


----------



## bhutso

chaded said:


> Ohio is deciding on a proposal this year to allow rangefinders on bows so I am curious as to how that map is indicating Ohio being legal in 2016?


Does it have something to do with the vendetta where it uses a laser to sight in the range finder making it illegal because it has the ability to cast a beam of visible light?

This sight doesn’t have that so that could be why 

I am not familiar with every states game laws but I doubt there is a law against “range finders on bows” specifically 

They seem to fall into two different category’s 

No electronic devise - the 9 red states 
No visible light on the target - the 41 green states


----------



## jacobh

Was wondering that too with Pa?


----------



## bhutso

Guys I wasn’t sure if it would be legal in my state 

I also don’t just blindly trust a map someone put on the internet with my hunting privileges 
So I contacted my DNR 

It took a few minutes to ask and a day or two for a response 

I suggest anyone who isn’t sure ask there dnr


----------



## chaded

bhutso said:


> Does it have something to do with the vendetta where it uses a laser to sight in the range finder making it illegal because it has the ability to cast a beam of visible light?
> 
> This sight doesn’t have that so that could be why
> 
> I am not familiar with every states game laws but I doubt there is a law against “range finders on bows” specifically
> 
> They seem to fall into two different category’s
> 
> No electronic devise - the 9 red states
> No visible light on the target - the 41 green states



The proposal states, “In other proposals, the ODNR Division of Wildlife proposed to allow the use of devices such as range finders on archery equipment that utilize only non-visible light when hunting in Ohio.” 

I am getting the implication that it is not legal now since they would have to make a proposal to allow it. It goes on to state in the next sentence that devices with visible beams would still be prohibited.


----------



## bhutso

chaded said:


> The proposal states, “In other proposals, the ODNR Division of Wildlife proposed to allow the use of devices such as range finders on archery equipment that utilize only non-visible light when hunting in Ohio.”
> 
> I am getting the implication that it is not legal now since they would have to make a proposal to allow it. It goes on to state in the next sentence that devices with visible beams would still be prohibited.


That’s why I asked the conservation in my state 
Can’t always trust what a company tells you about the legality of its product

Though I have to say I find it odd that a rangefinder in Ohio becomes an illegal piece of equipment when attached to a bow as opposed to attached to the hunter


----------



## chaded

bhutso said:


> That’s why I asked the conservation in my state
> Can’t always trust what a company tells you about the legality of its product
> 
> Though I have to say I find it odd that a rangefinder in Ohio becomes an illegal piece of equipment when attached to a bow as opposed to attached to the hunter


Yeah the law is odd and not the clearest. I wonder what they think of a sight light? We have several laws that are very vague and it is up to the warden to interpret, which can be fine or scary depending on who it is.


----------



## bhutso

chaded said:


> Yeah the law is odd and not the clearest. I wonder what they think of a sight light? We have several laws that are very vague and it is up to the warden to interpret, which can be fine or scary depending on who it is.


many laws written that way here in Missouri as well 
Really hate how they do that

I know a couple agents here 

I’ve asked many questions about certain vaguely written things and a lot of times they can tell me how they see it but cannot tell me for certain that a different agent wouldn’t see it a different way

So who’s right? Well the agent.... just depends on who you get


----------



## TAIL~~CHASER

https://youtu.be/zxpANSJjYpo


----------



## jmclfrsh

I can’t wait for this thing to show up!


----------



## Buckfevr

You guys suck, I just ordered one.


----------



## bhutso

Talk to the place I ordered from last night 

They are expecting to have it in next week or the week after and ship it out to me as soon as they get it


----------



## 797truck

bhutso said:


> Talk to the place I ordered from last night
> 
> They are expecting to have it in next week or the week after and ship it out to me as soon as they get it


I hope this holds true on the shipping. I just received an update from the Place I preordered from, an they have said Garmin's estimated ship date to them is April 15th and that I can expect to see it around the end of April. Hoping they are wrong on this.


----------



## GaryinOK

That was the same thing I was told. Checked my local shop and called Garmin and they said they were pushing out again. Argh.


----------



## nate0404

I have ordered a garmin sight and cant wait for it to get here, if this thing does what it’s supposed to it will be worth the wait and the money. Just noticed on garmins site “batteries not included” $1000 and they cant include the batteries? Annoying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

nate0404 said:


> I have ordered a garmin sight and cant wait for it to get here, if this thing does what it’s supposed to it will be worth the wait and the money. Just noticed on garmins site “batteries not included” $1000 and they cant include the batteries? Annoying
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ha ha 
Not only that but it takes the more expensive lithium ones 
Oh well 
Already stocked up while I’m waiting


----------



## nate0404

bhutso said:


> Ha ha
> Not only that but it takes the more expensive lithium ones
> Oh well
> Already stocked up while I’m waiting


I know its a little weird that spending $1000 for a bow sight doesnt bother me but having to spend $5 on batteries for a $1000 bow sight ruffles my feathers. Im already over it, i just thought it was funny that they didnt include them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NDHunter10

Shipping Lithium Ion batteries these days is becoming "problematic". 
Probably they are not included.


----------



## bhutso

NDHunter10 said:


> Shipping Lithium Ion batteries these days is becoming "problematic".
> Probably they are not included.


Amazon doesn’t mind shipping them too me


----------



## bhutso

nate0404 said:


> I know its a little weird that spending $1000 for a bow sight doesnt bother me but having to spend $5 on batteries for a $1000 bow sight ruffles my feathers. Im already over it, i just thought it was funny that they didnt include them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look at it this way 

If they included batteries they would probably charge $1020 for it lol


----------



## nate0404

bhutso said:


> Look at it this way
> 
> If they included batteries they would probably charge $1020 for it lol


Probably true. If they would just hurry the hell up i could be talking about how great their product is instead of their penny pinching cheapskate ways


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

It probably won’t be long
I was told that my production model was shipped out. 

Awesome sight guys, your going to really enjoy it. [emoji1360]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 797truck

Just an FYI to all those have pre-ordered a sight. I received an email from Garmin Product support this morning confirming that the release of the sight has been extended to the end of March, which is still a tentative time period, as well. Hoping the delays don't continue further past this.


----------



## E.J.

797truck said:


> Just an FYI to all those have pre-ordered a sight. I received an email from Garmin Product support this morning confirming that the release of the sight has been extended to the end of March, which is still a tentative time period, as well. Hoping the delays don't continue further past this.


Thanks for the update! Im glad and hopeful that these delays are attributed to software fixes...etc, but man, I know we are all super eager to play with this new tech. If the launch keeps getting delayed, I fear the excitement may wear off and rumors started.


----------



## jackmedearis

Awesome!


----------



## The Old Guy

Curious to what everybody is ordering. I am super excited about this sight, but are you getting the A1 or A1i? I don’t plan on buying a Garmin watch, so are there other reasons to get the A1i?


----------



## bhutso

A1i for multiple arrow configurations for me


----------



## dugabob

roosiebull said:


> so start a petition arguing that archery hunting as it is, isn't ethical enough, so we need more technology to up our recovery rate??
> 
> BRILLIANT! i see no reason the general public wouldn't support your petition.
> 
> i have another idea that will decrease the percentages of non fatal wounds.... have some self control and only take high percentage shots:wink:
> 
> i have no issue with the product, but call it what it is, you aren't going to BS any hunter into thinking it's a tool that makes archery hunting more ethical, it's a tool to take steps away from a normal archery shot sequence.
> 
> as it is now, you have to either guess range, or range the animal (or have points that you have already ranged) and hope that didn't cost you a shot opportunity, but if it did, that's archery hunting, it's a game of close calls.


I totally agree with you, see lots of deer, only get to shoot at a few, and bring home even fewer,,, that's archery hunting, if you don't like it, you shouldn't be doing it, this sight will bring home a few more as I see it,


----------



## bhutso

dugabob said:


> I totally agree with you, see lots of deer, only get to shoot at a few, and bring home even fewer,,, that's archery hunting, if you don't like it, you shouldn't be doing it, this sight will bring home a few more as I see it,


If you see the sight as “bringing home a few more” then you agree that it at least has the potential to turn a wound or a miss into a kill..... which is more ethical..... so you don’t totally agree with him 

Shoot at a few, bring a few home sounds more up my alley 
Although I’m not blind to the fact that more goes wrong in the woods than just incorrect yardage 
Reducing variables always sounds great to me 
Shot selection and execution are something I can continue to work on as well


----------



## bigbucks170

willing to wait till it's right no problem....respect not rush releasing with issues ...still super excited to get one too


----------



## 797truck

The Old Guy said:


> Curious to what everybody is ordering. I am super excited about this sight, but are you getting the A1 or A1i? I don’t plan on buying a Garmin watch, so are there other reasons to get the A1i?


Went with the A1i, mostly to be able to load multiple arrow profiles. I'm always playing with different set ups between bows, can now try different arrow configurations, with one bow and not have to change out sight tapes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## slayerrd

I called Garmin today and was told it has a ship date of April 14th.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## E.J.

slayerrd said:


> I called Garmin today and was told it has a ship date of April 14th.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the update! I'm salivating for anything xero related... Haha


----------



## Twinflower

Now that looks innovating. With it being Garmin I'm sure it will be well built and a great product


----------



## Kruzer022

Very cool. Is it legal in Oregon??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tripleb2431

Great idea and great tool for those that stalk. But IQ bowsights has one that's way cheaper. It's not as advance but still same result. Not having to pull up range finder. I only hunt my own properties so these are way way cheaper and also make it to where you don't have to pull up a range finder









Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


----------



## hunter9264

Impressive. If this will be legal for hunting I will have to look into this. The ol' range finder will just have to be there for back-up. With Garmin it will be reliable but no matter how reliable the only con would be if it would not work when you needed it and that could also be a factor with the sight I use now. I thing the pro's will out way the con's on this one.


----------



## duc

On another thread here they talk about average kill distance being about 20 yards. A thousand bucks for a sight to kill your animal at 20 yards?? You guys have rocks in your head.


----------



## gunrunr

duc said:


> On another thread here they talk about average kill distance being about 20 yards. A thousand bucks for a sight to kill your animal at 20 yards?? You guys have rocks in your head.


I find it disturbing when people take time out of their day to make fun of something someone else purchases. If you don't like it then just move on - no need to chastise someone else for spending their own money on something they desire. You have no idea what their financial situation is, how the features on this product might just solve the problems they are having, etc.


----------



## nate0404

duc said:


> On another thread here they talk about average kill distance being about 20 yards. A thousand bucks for a sight to kill your animal at 20 yards?? You guys have rocks in your head.


Considering the amount of enjoyment that i will get from this sight $1000 seems like a bargain. 

I paid $1000 for a washing machine that i have never used.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## duc

gunrunr said:


> I find it disturbing when people take time out of their day to make fun of something someone else purchases. If you don't like it then just move on - no need to chastise someone else for spending their own money on something they desire. You have no idea what their financial situation is, how the features on this product might just solve the problems they are having, etc.


I am entitled to express an opinion just as you do. And as for your last sentence, if you need to spend $1000 on a sight to kill an animal at 20 yards then you have bigger issues with your shooting an yardage estimates that need to be worked on. Buying yourself a fix is the problem with people who are just lazy. It’s 20 yards for Christ sake.


----------



## nate0404

duc said:


> I am entitled to express an opinion just as you do. And as for your last sentence, if you need to spend $1000 on a sight to kill an animal at 20 yards then you have bigger issues with your shooting an yardage estimates that need to be worked on. Buying yourself a fix is the problem with people who are just lazy. It’s 20 yards for Christ sake.


Ha ha ha Duc, you need to relax buddy, this sight is not for you, we get it.

Deer aren’t ONLY shot at 20 yards. 

Its a really cool piece of equipment people are excited about and your response is calling them dumb and lazy. I bet you’re a fun guy to be around.

Im guessing the people that buy this sight love archery, shoot often, are above average archers with above average income. Get over it. 

What if the sight cost $50, would we still be dumb and lazy if we bought it?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

duc said:


> I am entitled to express an opinion just as you do. And as for your last sentence, if you need to spend $1000 on a sight to kill an animal at 20 yards then you have bigger issues with your shooting an yardage estimates that need to be worked on. Buying yourself a fix is the problem with people who are just lazy. It’s 20 yards for Christ sake.


I don’t NEED this sight to shoot a deer at 20 yards. I don’t NEED this sight to shoot a deer at 60 yards. None of us need our bows, sights, arrows, stands, ATV, etc. It’s a hobby that’s done for fun. I think the Garmin sight is an innovative toy that will bring me a great deal of enjoyment, and I have $800.


----------



## bhutso

duc said:


> I am entitled to express an opinion just as you do. And as for your last sentence, if you need to spend $1000 on a sight to kill an animal at 20 yards then you have bigger issues with your shooting an yardage estimates that need to be worked on. Buying yourself a fix is the problem with people who are just lazy. It’s 20 yards for Christ sake.


I know right?

Not sure why people pay money for all those extra pins when all deer are killed at 20 yards?

All anyone needs to go hunting is one pin.....well not really, you can easily learn to gap shoot 20 yards with any bow so why do you need any sight ?

I mean every shot is 20 yards geeze
Well Except the 130 I killed at 36 last year


----------



## killerloop

bhutso said:


> Look at it this way
> 
> If they included batteries they would probably charge $1020 for it lol


Maybe just avoiding the peiple that complain all the time..... some would say they recei ed dead batteries...lol kidding

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## ToddM

It looks very cool. It is too bad it's not a dovetail so the model with profiles could be easily moved from bow to bow. I think the ability to change pin color, number, and size will appeal to a lot of people, as will the built in rangefinding. It is heavy if garmin's specs are accurate so that might be a deal breaker for me, ~16oz with batteries. I have a sure-loc lethal weapon that's about 14oz and never liked it for a hunting bow, it just required too much offset weight. Honestly for all it does $800-$1000 is not that bad. Let's remember several companies are now charging $350-$400 for nothing more than machined AL and fiber optic pin hunting sights now. The shot finder I think is a gimmick, but a lot of the other features seem well thought out. 

That said I wouldn't touch one for the first year, too many companies these days use early adopters as beta testers. This is Garmin's first attempt at a bow sight, it might be amazing, it might have growing pains, or it might be some of both. I'd rather they not use my $1000 to figure it out.


----------



## ontarget7

I will more than likely buy another I’m still liking it that much


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

with Shane's videos and the one that ol boy shot that rooster with, out of a ground blind was enough for me to see it work.
beyond excited to hunt this year with one...


----------



## duc

With all due respect to the people here who either think they need this or want this sight, I’m really trying not to rain on your parade but I think that it’s just another gimmick that comes at to high a price. I’m old school, learned to hunt with a long bow then “progressed” to compound. Over the years I’ve found that 40 yards is a long shot and 20 the average (for me). At the range the other day practicing (FITA) I’m thinking “why is it so hard for people to “guestimate” 40 yards”. Seriously, it isn’t that hard, and it isn’t that hard that it requires a $1000 sight. That’s a serious lot of coin. I just think that we (you) have come to a point that buying skill has taken over from hard work. Seriously, I don’t want to come across as arrogant or condescending but I think (and see) is that people wanting a quick fix for something that, after a bit of practice, isn’t that hard to do. For me, the hunt is the stalk. I can spend the day in hard country stalking and not shooting a thing. It is what it is, and if you need/want to spend that kind of coin to get your kill then knock yourselves out. I’d rather spent the money on family. Have fun.


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

duc said:


> With all due respect to the people here who either think they need this or want this sight, I’m really trying not to rain on your parade but I think that it’s just another gimmick that comes at to high a price. I’m old school, learned to hunt with a long bow then “progressed” to compound. Over the years I’ve found that 40 yards is a long shot and 20 the average (for me). At the range the other day practicing (FITA) I’m thinking “why is it so hard for people to “guestimate” 40 yards”. Seriously, it isn’t that hard, and it isn’t that hard that it requires a $1000 sight. That’s a serious lot of coin. I just think that we (you) have come to a point that buying skill has taken over from hard work. Seriously, I don’t want to come across as arrogant or condescending but I think (and see) is that people wanting a quick fix for something that, after a bit of practice, isn’t that hard to do. For me, the hunt is the stalk. I can spend the day in hard country stalking and not shooting a thing. It is what it is, and if you need/want to spend that kind of coin to get your kill then knock yourselves out. I’d rather spent the money on family. Have fun.


Are you saying you would "guestimate" a 40 yd hunting shot? Do you use a rangefinder for hunting or do you just shoot targets? Do you not take hunting shots over 20yds?


----------



## ToddM

duc said:


> With all due respect to the people here who either think they need this or want this sight, I’m really trying not to rain on your parade but I think that it’s just another gimmick that comes at to high a price. I’m old school, learned to hunt with a long bow then “progressed” to compound. Over the years I’ve found that 40 yards is a long shot and 20 the average (for me). At the range the other day practicing (FITA) I’m thinking “why is it so hard for people to “guestimate” 40 yards”. Seriously, it isn’t that hard, and it isn’t that hard that it requires a $1000 sight. That’s a serious lot of coin. I just think that we (you) have come to a point that buying skill has taken over from hard work. Seriously, I don’t want to come across as arrogant or condescending but I think (and see) is that people wanting a quick fix for something that, after a bit of practice, isn’t that hard to do. For me, the hunt is the stalk. I can spend the day in hard country stalking and not shooting a thing. It is what it is, and if you need/want to spend that kind of coin to get your kill then knock yourselves out. I’d rather spent the money on family. Have fun.


I do see this trend, to me it's like the guys that are doing the long range rifle "hunting", as someone who does a lot of long range shooting to me that's not hunting it's shooting. At 800+ yards yes it takes tons of "shooting" skill to hit the animal (though usually they fire some sighters first, that part doesn't make it on camera) but it takes almost zero HUNTING skill to get within 800 yards of an animal. So I don't think of it as hunting but as shooting. Technology has quickly allowed the average person to greatly increase their shooting range and accuracy. We've seen this push in archery as well lately guys taking animals up to and over 100 yards now. 30 years ago you'd almost never see anyone shoot at the 50-60 yard lines and beyond at the range, now I see all kinds of people shooting at and beyond 80 on a regular basis. 

However, I've also learned over the years that there's always someone, somewhere that considers whatever you do "cheating" and not real "hunting". The rifle shooters thing the extreme long range rifle shooters are cheating, the muzzle loader shooters think the rifle hunters are cheating, the compound archery hunters think the crossbow, muzzleloader, and rifle shooters are cheating, the traditional bow shooters think the compound bow shooters are cheating, the spot and stalk guys think the stand/blind hunters are cheating, some hunters think hunting over bait isn't hunting, some think letting dogs drive a mountain lion up a tree and shooting it out of said tree isn't hunting. Somewhere someone is killing deer with a spork from KFC and thinks all of the above are cheating.

You are right, it doesn't take that much skill to accurately range deer to say 30-40 yards, though I've seen some really good archers make some huge misses at difficult up/downhill shots at those ranges. You are right, the technology is decreasing the skill and practice required to make a particular shot, but that started from the first compound bow, archery sight, release, aluminum arrows, etc. It's also allowing archers to take longer/harder shots with less chance of wounding an animal. As someone that does a lot of handgun/rifle shooting archery is still an extremely cheap sport. I know guys spending in ammo every month what a couple good full bow setups would be, and their guns make the most expensive archery setup look cheap.


----------



## duc

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Are you saying you would "guestimate" a 40 yd hunting shot? Do you use a rangefinder for hunting or do you just shoot targets? Do you not take hunting shots over 20yds?


“Guesstimate” probably not the correct word. All my hunting started with a 45lb recurve. 20+ years of it. Never really botherd to try to kill at anything at longer range, even when I got my first compound. As I’ve said, the stalk is more important to me. I can gauge forthy comfortably and been happy to do this forever. 20 is typical. My first buff in Arnham land was close to 15 on the stalk (compound by the way). My hunting is simple, 60lb Dren, one pin sight, two arrows. No stab, no range finder. Most of the time in shorts and t shirt (oz camo, which is great) and bare feet. No so much here but back home (Queensland). I really don’t want to carry out any more than 20kg of meat and bow after a long hunt and where I live now sometimes that’s 5-7 Kay’s.


----------



## RangerX

*Spork Hunter!*



ToddM said:


> Somewhere someone is killing deer with a spork from KFC and thinks all of the above are cheating.


:grin:


----------



## duc

RangerX said:


> :grin:


If you really sit down and think about it (which I have) your American style of hunting, as portraying in commercials, has lost the essence of what bow hunting is all about. This is an option only as I’ve never been to the States and can only judge by what I see here on AT and your adds (commercials). The money you guys spend to get the kill is staggering. But to each their own. And for the record, I have hunted pigs in the early days with a home made spear. Some of you may want to give that a try and see what primitive hunting is all about. Tried it once with a buff but chickened out. My balls aren’t that big.


----------



## SDMac

duc said:


> If you really sit down and think about it (which I have) your American style of hunting, as portraying in commercials, has lost the essence of what bow hunting is all about. This is an option only as I’ve never been to the States and can only judge by what I see here on AT and your adds (commercials). The money you guys spend to get the kill is staggering. But to each their own. And for the record, I have hunted pigs in the early days with a home made spear. Some of you may want to give that a try and see what primitive hunting is all about. Tried it once with a buff but chickened out. My balls aren’t that big.


LOL duc. Like guys hunting grizzly bear with a bow and stalking to 15 yards..... My balls are not that big either!!


----------



## nate0404

duc said:


> If you really sit down and think about it (which I have) your American style of hunting, as portraying in commercials, has lost the essence of what bow hunting is all about. This is an option only as I’ve never been to the States and can only judge by what I see here on AT and your adds (commercials). The money you guys spend to get the kill is staggering. But to each their own. And for the record, I have hunted pigs in the early days with a home made spear. Some of you may want to give that a try and see what primitive hunting is all about. Tried it once with a buff but chickened out. My balls aren’t that big.


Mic drop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

duc said:


> Seriously, it isn’t that hard, and it isn’t that hard that it requires a $1000 sight. That’s a serious lot of coin. I’d rather spent the money on family.


So you are saying “it’s all about the money.”


----------



## ontarget7

Last time I checked a compound bow setup is more expensive than a homemade stick and stone. There is a lot of money that can be saved if going back to one for guys that really want to be challenged and thrive on hard work. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## midi

there is space enough for myriad styles of hunting. if xero increases harvest rates to beyond sustainability with 65.5789yard shots gettting double lungers regularly then it will need re-visiting

OTOH if it reduces the number of 35yard high shoulder wounds?

the biggest concern from a user POV is reliability/durability and "buggy issues"

YMMV


----------



## E.J.

I still can't figure out why people care what other people use or how they spend their money. I want to use this sight to be more ethical, use heavier arrows, cut out the steps involved in using a rangefinder, and overall add a new element into my practicing. I admit I'm not a yardage God, and can't guess to the yard where my prey is standing. But guess what, the xero does. And I will spend my hard earned money on it. This thing is a confidence builder for sure. 

Anyway, back to the actual sight. Shane, is that your production model that finally arrived?


----------



## Browtine22

Haters are going to hate. It's what they do. Change, adapt or get the hell out of the way.

I like to try new stuff. If I don't like it, off to ebay it will go. Maybe someone else will buy it and use it. I've killed plenty of deer with a recurve but groundhogs are going to be a fun test for this sight. Archery is my escape from the everyday work pressures. I've put two daughters through nursing school. If I want a toy I'm going to buy it and maybe the next one or two that I think is better. You still have to execute the shot.


----------



## ontarget7

E.J. said:


> I still can't figure out why people care what other people use or how they spend their money. I want to use this sight to be more ethical, use heavier arrows, cut out the steps involved in using a rangefinder, and overall add a new element into my practicing. I admit I'm not a yardage God, and can't guess to the yard where my prey is standing. But guess what, the xero does. And I will spend my hard earned money on it. This thing is a confidence builder for sure.
> 
> Anyway, back to the actual sight. Shane, is that your production model that finally arrived?


Completely agree 

Yes, sir
Production model arrived so it won’t be long and these will start showing up. 

I have heard they have quite the back orders so going to wait them out and more than likely purchase another. 

Same model bow but one for target and one for my hunting rig. I have really got used to not carrying a separate rangefinder. The Xero is definitely a game changer and confidence booster. 

Truly the most innovative product to hit the market in archer for quite some time 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Browtine22

ontarget7 said:


> Completely agree
> 
> Yes, sir
> Production model arrived so it won’t be long and these will start showing up.
> 
> I have heard they have quite the back orders so going to wait them out and more than likely purchase another.
> 
> Same model bow but one for target and one for my hunting rig. I have really got used to not carrying a separate rangefinder. The Xero is definitely a game changer and confidence booster.
> 
> Truly the most innovative product to hit the market in archer for quite some time
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess that means you currently have two. I think you should let me borrow one until mine comes in. :darkbeer:


----------



## roosiebull

duc said:


> With all due respect to the people here who either think they need this or want this sight, I’m really trying not to rain on your parade but I think that it’s just another gimmick that comes at to high a price. I’m old school, learned to hunt with a long bow then “progressed” to compound. Over the years I’ve found that 40 yards is a long shot and 20 the average (for me). At the range the other day practicing (FITA) I’m thinking “why is it so hard for people to “guestimate” 40 yards”. Seriously, it isn’t that hard, and it isn’t that hard that it requires a $1000 sight. That’s a serious lot of coin. I just think that we (you) have come to a point that buying skill has taken over from hard work. Seriously, I don’t want to come across as arrogant or condescending but I think (and see) is that people wanting a quick fix for something that, after a bit of practice, isn’t that hard to do. For me, the hunt is the stalk. I can spend the day in hard country stalking and not shooting a thing. It is what it is, and if you need/want to spend that kind of coin to get your kill then knock yourselves out. I’d rather spent the money on family. Have fun.


YOU progressed to a compound to make it easier, quit being hypocritical


----------



## ontarget7

Browtine22 said:


> I guess that means you currently have two. I think you should let me borrow one until mine comes in. :darkbeer:


Unfortunately, the demo gets shipped back 

Your going to really dig this sight 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Browtine22

I'll wait but not patiently.


----------



## Dryfly24

roosiebull said:


> YOU progressed to a compound to make it easier, quit being hypocritical


I agree with you 100%. A lot of hypocrisy in this thread. It's just a basic human trait to invent, progress and evolve. it's also basic human nature for many to throw **** at others who do things things they perceive as inferior to the way they themselves choose to do somethimg because it's "easier". It's snobbery at its finest. 

Many Fly fishermen look down on bait fishermen. While even within the fly fishing world there is a structure. Dry flies, wet flies, streamers, nymphs, and so on. Muzzleloader hunters look down on rifle hunters. Long bow guys look down on compound bow guys, etc, etc.. not because they are better but because it makes them "feel" superior.


----------



## redbaron307

I cant wait to get my hands on one! Its a game changer for the bowhunting world for sure.


----------



## ontarget7

Dryfly24 said:


> I agree with you 100%. A lot of hypocrisy in this thread. It's just a basic human trait to invent, progress and evolve. it's also basic human nature for many to throw **** at others who do things things they perceive as inferior to the way they themselves choose to do somethimg because it's "easier". It's snobbery at its finest.
> 
> Many Fly fishermen look down on bait fishermen. While even within the fly fishing world there is a structure. Dry flies, wet flies, streamers, nymphs, and so on. Muzzleloader hunters look down on rifle hunters. Long bow guys look down on compound bow guys, etc, etc.. not because they are better but because it makes them "feel" superior.


Sad, but true 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SDMac

I am thinking this would be a great sight for turkey hunting with a bow. (which I have never done. Only shotgun). There would be less movement in trying to range the bird then draw. I guess maybe not that big of a deal if using a blind, but if not using a blind....
I have been debating with myself on taking the bow out this season after turkeys for the first time, but I don't use a blind. I have a hard enough time with a shotgun, but this just might be the ultimate challenge for me. I think this sight would make it easier.


----------



## Browtine22

Dryfly24 said:


> I agree with you 100%. A lot of hypocrisy in this thread. It's just a basic human trait to invent, progress and evolve. it's also basic human nature for many to throw **** at others who do things things they perceive as inferior to the way they themselves choose to do somethimg because it's "easier". It's snobbery at its finest.
> 
> Many Fly fishermen look down on bait fishermen. While even within the fly fishing world there is a structure. Dry flies, wet flies, streamers, nymphs, and so on. Muzzleloader hunters look down on rifle hunters. Long bow guys look down on compound bow guys, etc, etc.. not because they are better but because it makes them "feel" superior.


Those Tenkara guys are the worst LOL


----------



## Dryfly24

Browtine22 said:


> Those Tenkara guys are the worst LOL


 

I forgot about them!


----------



## Browtine22

All sports/Hobbies have elitist's and snobs. I stopped paying attention to it long ago. I fly fish because I enjoy certain aspects like matching the hatch. Solving the riddle, if you will. I won't kick out of the truck for bringing power bait. Heck, I even hunt with a crossbow guy.


----------



## 797truck

ontarget7 said:


> I will more than likely buy another I’m still liking it that much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shane you're killing me here.[emoji6] hopefully get mine in time for the spring bear hunt.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## kicker338

The Old Guy said:


> I don’t NEED this sight to shoot a deer at 20 yards. I don’t NEED this sight to shoot a deer at 60 yards. None of us need our bows, sights, arrows, stands, ATV, etc. It’s a hobby that’s done for fun. I think the Garmin sight is an innovative toy that will bring me a great deal of enjoyment, and I have $800.


Can't argue with that at all, post of the day to me. I've seen the garmin labeled as a gimmick by some but I don't buy that, Been through enough of that gimmick talk with my EZV. With either sight or
for that matter anything ,if you want it buy it and enjoy.


----------



## ontarget7

The close range holdover shots are just way my accurate 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skynight

SDMac said:


> I am thinking this would be a great sight for turkey hunting with a bow. (which I have never done. Only shotgun). There would be less movement in trying to range the bird then draw. I guess maybe not that big of a deal if using a blind, but if not using a blind....
> I have been debating with myself on taking the bow out this season after turkeys for the first time, but I don't use a blind. I have a hard enough time with a shotgun, but this just might be the ultimate challenge for me. I think this sight would make it easier.


Turkey hunting is really the only hunting I do that I could replace my multi pin sight with a single pin and leave the rangefinder at home. It's a top pin game.


----------



## The Old Guy

ontarget7 said:


> Unfortunately, the demo gets shipped back
> 
> Your going to really dig this sight [emoji482]


Would there be an advantage for me to have the A1i? I don’t plan to buy a Garmin watch. I have one but it’s not compatible. I don’t think I will have different arrow set ups. I hunt Whitetail, coyotes (that’s fun), and shoot 3D. What would you recommend?


----------



## Buckfevr

I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to shun innovation. That said I have to say that perhaps that was the biggest reason for me to decide to go with it, that I found the innovation compelling and that I wanted to experience it.


----------



## ToddM

Perhaps someone that's test both can say, for now it's hard to tell since the manuals are not out, but it appears the A1i has some extra settings/features beyond the normal. I don't think the position estimation is a big deal but I could see where there are times where being able to walk to the exact spot you shot to look for blood etc. would be helpful. I think some people will really like to be able to save different pin/gap setups. The A1i pins can be either red or green, the A1 can only be red. They also talk about some shot dynamics info (bow level at release, bow impulse duration, shot counter, etc.) that the A1i has the A1 won't, though the only one I think is really interesting/helpful is the bow cant at release. Garmin has never been very good about getting into the weeds about what one model does compared to another even in their manuals so usually you have to read user reports to figure out all the subtle features/differences. 

For me I'd say being able to use both pin colors, different bow/arrow setups, and the form feedback would be worth the extra $200. 

One thing I did notice is there are some videos out there already on the site, and it looks like during setup you only get 0.5" adjustments (unless the interval is adjustable). That sounds pretty tiny but I could see some guys that were really trying to nail 12's wanting finer adjustments. 

The other thing I've wondered about is how easy it is to hold steady to range a target/animal especially at longer ranges. For those of you that are testing the unit are you waiting until being at full draw to range, which seems like it would be much more stable, or trying to range before drawing? 

They don't talk about the size range of the pins, or the maximum number of pins allowed. They did say when the battery runs down the sight will turn into fixed pin only mode for it's last couple weeks of operation. 

It would also be interesting to know the internal ranging resolution it's using for pin placements at longer ranges. For example let's say you are shooting at 80 yards it appears the display only has whole yard reporting, so during calibration I could see where you might want to ensure you measure the distance so you didn't induce any error due to rounding etc. which is always a good idea anyway.

It also appears that the nature of the reticle/dot interaction is very much like a retina loc, or IQ retina, no peep etc. sight. In that it gives an indication of the repeatability of your anchor and amount of bow hand torque. Do you see this every time you range/shoot or only during calibration?


----------



## ontarget7

The Old Guy said:


> Would there be an advantage for me to have the A1i? I don’t plan to buy a Garmin watch. I have one but it’s not compatible. I don’t think I will have different arrow set ups. I hunt Whitetail, coyotes (that’s fun), and shoot 3D. What would you recommend?


Since you shoot multiple different arrow specs I would definitely go with the A1i. 

I also like that the A1i gives you the option of 
colors to choose for the led pin/dot. Some target backgrounds I prefer one over the other and it’s nice to have that choice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jacobh

Shane how is the glare while shooting towards sun? Have u got it wet to see how water droplets would affect your sight on the pin?


----------



## ontarget7

jacobh said:


> Shane how is the glare while shooting towards sun? Have u got it wet to see how water droplets would affect your sight on the pin?


Haven’t had any issues with that. Rain has been fine as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

ontarget7 said:


> Since you shoot multiple different arrow specs I would definitely go with the A1i.
> 
> I also like that the A1i gives you the option of
> colors to choose for the led pin/dot. Some target backgrounds I prefer one over the other and it’s nice to have that choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks


----------



## jtait05

Solid innovation but, I will stay with my current now "old school" sight. There are too many variables for me with this sight. No hunt is the same as the last and I fear with this expensive tech on the front of my bow something can go wrong. I dont own one, so I dont know if things like rain, fog, below freezing temps, shock and others would have a detrimental affect or not?


----------



## Ingo

ontarget7 said:


> It is legal in California
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just don't understand how this is legal in Arizona when Arizona doesn't allow sight lights. If they let this go and continue not allowing lighted pins, that'll be pretty ridiculous. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

The Old Guy said:


> Thanks


No problem 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rockyw

It will be interesting how these work once they are out there for people to use. The one guy I talked to that got to play around with a demo didn't like the range finder, he said it was only accurate at full draw and anchored correctly. I will not buy one right now and it is a new gimmick, but I love new gimmicks and may change my mind someday. Hope everyone keeps us posted on your thoughts on these sights.


----------



## cbowie

jtait05 said:


> Solid innovation but, I will stay with my current now "old school" sight. There are too many variables for me with this sight. No hunt is the same as the last and I fear with this expensive tech on the front of my bow something can go wrong. I dont own one, so I dont know if things like rain, fog, below freezing temps, shock and others would have a detrimental affect or not?


Good news...Shane (ontarget7), has already completed the testing you're concerned about and more! You can find all of this at the beginning of the thread. He has a ton of great videos about the sight on YouTube as well. [emoji106]

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## ontarget7

rockyw said:


> It will be interesting how these work once they are out there for people to use. The one guy I talked to that got to play around with a demo didn't like the range finder, he said it was only accurate at full draw and anchored correctly. I will not buy one right now and it is a new gimmick, but I love new gimmicks and may change my mind someday. Hope everyone keeps us posted on your thoughts on these sights.


Sounds like user error

I bounce back and forth ranging at full draw and at brace. Accuracy has been very consistent when comparing it to my Leica 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie

rockyw said:


> It will be interesting how these work once they are out there for people to use. The one guy I talked to that got to play around with a demo didn't like the range finder, he said it was only accurate at full draw and anchored correctly. I will not buy one right now and it is a new gimmick, but I love new gimmicks and may change my mind someday. Hope everyone keeps us posted on your thoughts on these sights.


Shane (ontarget7), couldn't have provided more feedback on testing, if you ask him for it. Go back to the beginning of this thread or if he hasn't answered a specific question, shoot him a message. He's been the best Q&A support for this sight, you will ever find. He will give you no BS, honest answers! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## ontarget7

cbowie said:


> Shane (ontarget7), couldn't have provided more feedback on testing, if you ask him for it. Go back to the beginning of this thread or if he hasn't answered a specific question, shoot him a message. He's been the best Q&A support for this sight, you will ever find. He will give you no BS, honest answers!
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


Thanks
Glad I could help out [emoji1360]

I honestly feel once this sight gets into more hands it will actually gain momentum. It’s just a great sight that has lots of pluses and very few negatives. About the only negative for me personally is I can’t reach out to 100 yards and beyond. However, the benefits for me have out weighed that one negative and I see myself always wanting to use it regardless. 

1)The unobstructed field of view
2)Infinite adjustments of the pin size and brightness 
3)Spot on calcs for holdover shots as well as all the in between yardage’s and angle compensation 
4)Not always pulling out a separate rangefinder 
5) Faster shot acquisition on game with the precise yardage at your finger tip
6) Mostly tool-less adjustments
7) Extremely easy setup
8) For me personally I would have to say increased accuracy 
9) The ability to program multiple setups with the A1i is awesome 
10) All axis adjustments programmed in to insure accuracy 
11) Built in torque indicator 

For their first archery product they really did their homework on this one. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zwalls

Shane, or can anyone explain the main differences between the A1 and the A1i?


----------



## ontarget7

zwalls said:


> Shane, or can anyone explain the main differences between the A1 and the A1i?









































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

Thank you. Shot dynamics may be enough to spend the other $200.


----------



## ToddM

1081 posts browsed, various videos watched, even read the new manual, still have some ?'s. As expected with previous Garmin products their manual really doesn't do a great job of getting into the nitty gritty. I think for me the max range might be a deal killer, if 90-95 is max with a 310-320fps setup. I'd image 260-280 is not even going to make it to 80. That would be more than fine for hunting, but I shoot one bow for everything and like to throw some arrows at longer distance just for giggles. I do like that you can also set it to show decimal yardages. I used to shoot a no-peep and now shoot the IQ sights. Call me weird but I'll never go back to a peep sight. It appears this would mimic that functionality during ranging with the dot/circle alignment required. 

Questions I still had:

1) Is there a limit of how many "fixed" pins can be set? 
2) I've read the size of the pin can be changed but the manual makes no mention of changing the size of the pin?
3) are all the various dovetail/mount pieces aluminum? or I guess more importantly not plastic. 

Thanks,

Todd


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



The Old Guy said:


> Thank you. Shot dynamics may be enough to spend the other $200.


[emoji1360]












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

ToddM said:


> 1081 posts browsed, various videos watched, even read the new manual, still have some ?'s. As expected with previous Garmin products their manual really doesn't do a great job of getting into the nitty gritty. I think for me the max range might be a deal killer, if 90-95 is max with a 310-320fps setup. I'd image 260-280 is not even going to make it to 80. That would be more than fine for hunting, but I shoot one bow for everything and like to throw some arrows at longer distance just for giggles. I do like that you can also set it to show decimal yardages. I used to shoot a no-peep and now shoot the IQ sights. Call me weird but I'll never go back to a peep sight. It appears this would mimic that functionality during ranging with the dot/circle alignment required.
> 
> Questions I still had:
> 
> 1) Is there a limit of how many "fixed" pins can be set?
> 2) I've read the size of the pin can be changed but the manual makes no mention of changing the size of the pin?
> 3) are all the various dovetail/mount pieces aluminum? or I guess more importantly not plastic.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Todd


I would have to guess that 80 is definitely doable at 280 fps. Lots of variables here and even peep height being one so not sure your ever going to get a direct answer


1) No
2) yes, size of pin can be changed with the push of a button. This also changes pin brightness
3) aluminum and not plastic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ToddM

Interesting, so they are basically letting the pin starburst at brighter settings = larger pin. In other words you can't get a bright small pin, or a dim large pin.


----------



## zwalls

ontarget7 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thank you for the information Shane!


----------



## jtait05

I would agree with you on that!


----------



## Belo

duc said:


> With all due respect to the people here who either think they need this or want this sight, I’m really trying not to rain on your parade but I think that it’s just another gimmick that comes at to high a price. I’m old school, learned to hunt with a long bow then “progressed” to compound. Over the years I’ve found that 40 yards is a long shot and 20 the average (for me). At the range the other day practicing (FITA) I’m thinking “why is it so hard for people to “guestimate” 40 yards”. Seriously, it isn’t that hard, and it isn’t that hard that it requires a $1000 sight. That’s a serious lot of coin. I just think that we (you) have come to a point that buying skill has taken over from hard work. Seriously, I don’t want to come across as arrogant or condescending but I think (and see) is that people wanting a quick fix for something that, after a bit of practice, isn’t that hard to do. For me, the hunt is the stalk. I can spend the day in hard country stalking and not shooting a thing. It is what it is, and if you need/want to spend that kind of coin to get your kill then knock yourselves out. I’d rather spent the money on family. Have fun.


the hunting industry has been full of gimmicks for decades. Every once in a while one sticks. Remember the introduction of mechanicals? Started a little rocky, but overall successful. Lots of guys shoot them now and plenty others don't. That's what's great about capitalism. Don't like it. Don't buy it. 

I for one am happy to see a company jump into the hunting market. In a day and age where people boycott everything, they're taking a risk with their much more popular products to bring something new to our world. geez.


----------



## CNW211

I would like to see a firmware update that allows you to enter your chrono speed and it sets your initial pins for you. From there you could manually fine tune your pins. Or at least sight in 2 distances like a "regular" single pin and have an algorithm determine the other pins and then let you fine tune. Those capabilities really wouldn't be any different than sighting in the current single pins on the market and creating sight tapes based on 2 distances such as 20 and 60 yds. I would actually think with the electronics on board already it would be doable. Just a thought. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

CNW211 said:


> I would like to see a firmware update that allows you to enter your chrono speed and it sets your initial pins for you. From there you could manually fine tune your pins. Or at least sight in 2 distances like a "regular" single pin and have an algorithm determine the other pins and then let you fine tune. Those capabilities really wouldn't be any different than sighting in the current single pins on the market and creating sight tapes based on 2 distances such as 20 and 60 yds. I would actually think with the electronics on board already it would be doable. Just a thought.


I am sure there will be multiple generations of this sight. I just hope Garmin isn’t like Apple and have an upgrade every 6 months.


----------



## ToddM

Garmin typically may not replace a product for 2-3 years these days, so I don't think we'll see replacements every 6 months, I'd be surprised to see them yearly even. What you might see is if it's successful, in a year or so could be a different variation maybe a lighter/cheaper model, etc. 

As to firmware adding features/options, if the past 15+ years of buying and using garmin handheld and cycling GPS units is any indication, they will fix bugs with firmware, but they almost never add options/features, that's left for the next generation release. They also most likely won't update firmware to use say the arrow location feature with their older or lower line GPS units. They are going to ensure a lot of people that buy the sight if they want to use the arrow location, are also going to be spending another $400-$700 on a new GPS/watch to use it.

Garmin is doing a good job of surviving the fact that no one really buys car GPS units anymore, and most people use their phone GPS for casual hiking etc. so they've had to really branch out into the watch, bike, action camera markets.


----------



## Mauritian

Any word on the release date?


----------



## 797truck

Talked , both with Garmin and my dealer. These are expected to ship to the dealers 3rd week in April (20th) and Garmin expects they will make them available directly, at the end of April.
Hopefully this does not change again.


----------



## fferazzi

Ttt


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## bmwlife1976

To pay as much for a sight as you spent on your bow is insane. It should come with a guarantee that you will immediately become the best archer in the world for that price. Oh and a big buck every year. [emoji43][emoji43]

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk


----------



## gunrunr

Garmin is telling us our shop's order was one of first placed and should ship out next week


----------



## "TheBlindArcher"

It's going to take me a long time to sift through 44 pages, so Shane, or anyone: 

How are the windage adjustments made/calculated? What I'm wondering is if the Garmin could be mounted "left handed" for a RH shooter so someone could sight in by looking over the shooter's shoulder. 

Also, saw mention of a peep in later posts, still needed with the Garmin?


----------



## 797truck

This is the reply I had received from Garmin. My dealer shows an expected ship date of April 20th, possible you may see places like Cabela's and Amazon with them shortly.



Hello Greg,
Thank you for the reply. The site indicates 5-8 weeks as a generic release date. Garmin always ships to the dealers first to allow them to sell to local customers. we list it as 5-8 weeks as to not set a unrealistic ship date for customers ordering them online. As of now we are looking for the release date through Garmin direct to be closer to the end of April, though you should be able t get them through your local dealers before that. If you have any further questions please reply to this email or give us a call at 1-800-800-1020


Thank you for choosing Garmin,
Nick
Product Support - Outdoor Team
Garmin International
For 24-hour access to support videos, manuals, FAQs & more, visit the Support Center.




>> Original Message ...
>> 
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Garmin Xero A1i sight << Reference ID: 11244568K0 >>
>> Sent: 27/03/2018 19:52
>>
>> 
Hi there,
Appreciate the reply to my inquiry, however I'm not sure it answered my question. I was only referencing the Xero a1i bow sight, not other new products. The Garmin website has always indicated 5-8 weeks delivery, ever since it was announced in the first week of January. 
Was just looking for an actual shipping date, as Garmin has not released any information on this sight since it was first introduced.
I have signed up for the email, in regards to availability, back in January, and as of yet have not received anything in regards to either the product or availability.

>> 
Best regards 
Greg

>> 
>> Sent from my iPad

>> On Mar 27, 2018, at 3:27 PM, <[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 

>> 
Hello Greg,

>> New items are currently shipping, however I see from our website that we are still 5-8 weeks backordered.
>> 
>> There is a link you can provide your email address to that will alert you when the product is available:
"Email me when this product is available"
>> 
>> https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/573347
>> 


Thank you for choosing Garmin,
Adam
Product Support Team
Garmin International
For 24-hour access to support videos, manuals, FAQs & more, visit the Support Center.


----------



## Belo

bmwlife1976 said:


> To pay as much for a sight as you spent on your bow is insane. It should come with a guarantee that you will immediately become the best archer in the world for that price. Oh and a big buck every year.
> 
> Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk


some people drive cars more expensive than what many can afford for a house. It's only insane if $1k is a lot of money for someone personally to invest in bowhunting. When you consider the time and money we spend in other areas of the sport all for that split second opportunity... it may not really be that bad. It's all relative to the person. 

In my opinion, it's nice to have the option.


----------



## DanT34

I am a tech kind of guy. I love the newest and greatest new things. Do I have to have every new product out there. No, not at all.

I see and hear guys complaining about where archery is headed with new technology. I don't get that at all. Do think guys on gun forums say "I cant believe where our modern day weapons are headed"? Probably not.
So why would it be any different on an archery forum? It shouldn't! 

If you are hunting with anything that has a cam or cams on it. You should have absolutely nothing but positive things to say about any new tech product that comes out. 
To hold the idea that you feel that archery is headed in the wrong directions, is, well dumb and doesn't make any sense. 
If it is a viable product that improves your accuracy and helps to produce a fast humane kill. What is the down side to that? 

No matter what level of bow your shooting whether its a 1970s bow or the newest bow on the market.If it has cams on it, you are shooting a bow that is all about the newest and next best thing and was or is the highest tech thing in its time. 
Archery is and has always been a progression just like anything else. It starts out primitive and improves from there.

That is why humans are at the top of the food chain. We build things to make us better, faster and stronger and more lethal. If you hunt with a traditional bow I'm not nocking that. But don't nock everyone else 
because they choose to hunt the way they want to with the equipment they want. 

I understand the whole traditional thing. I am looking to pick up a recurve and learn the art of shooting one. That is part of where archery has come from. I have respect for the history of archery.
But at the same time, I am not going to be hanging a Garmin off the front of the recurve ether. 

Just my two cents

Dan T.


----------



## Buckfevr

My buddy got his yesterday so they are shipping some.


----------



## fferazzi

Ttt


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## rnsams

I had one preordered on amazon for over a month. Got an email yesterday saying due to the product being unavailable they were canceling my order. Tried to reorder and none are available on Amazon. Hmmmm.......


----------



## Elknutz_1

I didn't have the ambition to read through this thread - a guy on another forum said the warranty is 1 year. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I don't see it on Garmin's "sight" (see what I did there) site. 

If the warranty doesn't match the price point my interest just went away.


----------



## Elknutz_1

I didn't have the ambition to read through this thread - a guy on another forum said the warranty is 1 year. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I don't see it on Garmin's "sight" (see what I did there) site. 

If the warranty doesn't match the price point my interest just went away.


----------



## dugabob

Well if you didn't like the 800 to $1000 price range, some outfit on Amazon is now asking $1999 for the A1i, supply and demand


----------



## jmclfrsh

I got mine in a couple of days ago and posted my thoughts and some photos in the Bowhunting forum on the A1i.

Personally, after three years of jumping into archery all-in - I have virtually done nothing else except work and pay back off my credit cards, even quit going out to bars all the time - this Garmin has made me like archery like never before.

I came from the gun world, and have been shooting for about 34 years. I knew nothing about archery, so decided to try it. Seven bows and numerous releases later - and I’m not rich by any means - I have still been hanging up on my shots and having a hard time to get them to go off, backtension of no backtension. Surprise or command shooting. 

Not enough of a frustration to give it up, especially after all this money spent, but not enough success to feel like I am achieving the success I want to.

That has changed dramatically this year with two items. I went back to a wrist release, but with a trigger like a gun, a Scott’s Echo. It allows me to feel like I feel when shooting a gun. A squeeze of a trigger is very natural, and I’m back into the bullseye consistently again.

Second, the Garmin has really changed the game for me. I still have to execute a good shot, but the outcome is more predictable. It really is.

I have been hunting since 1974. I do not take the idea of ending something’s life lightly, and I will not kill anything that I will not eat, other than poisonous snakes. We are all different, and that is my philosophy. I wouldn’t want someone or something coming along and killing me just for the fun of it, so I don’t do it myself. 

That being said, I also don’t like the thought of something dying a slow, miserable death just because, even though I tried my best, the bottom line is my arrow went back too far and gut shot something, or shot it in the neck and made it struggle to breathe for hours. I need to make quick, humane kills to be able to enjoy going hunting, which I do or I wouldn’t have done it for so long.

The Garmin has allowed me to make accurate shots consistently. I walked around my back yard and aimed, ranged and shot, all within seconds. And my arrows are consistently hilling within inches of where I intended them to go, as long as I didn’t know that shot was already gonna be high to the left, for instance. If I was settled and make a proper shot execution, it was going to hit very near the 10 ring. And that is what I have been looking for all along.

Yes, the price tag is high. Yes, just like the iPhone, others will come along, and the price will come down hopefully - but my last iPhone was almost twice as high as my first one, and the first one was $600!

I think what this is is a watershed moment in archery, like the iPhone was to cell phones. 

It went from a unit that makes simple phone calls, to a hand-held computer that lets you see what the weather is doing, or is gonna do. Or allow you to see just where you are while in unfamiliar territory and make your way back out again. That can have a real impact on your life if you’re out in a perilous situation, like hunting in the middle of nowhere with bad weather coming in.

We ridicule what we do not know sometimes. That is human nature. But we as a people embrace technology that allows us to do things better, we always have. And this is one of those things.

I’ve got about 200 shots on my bow with the Garmin A1i on it, and by the end of the day today, it will be close to 325 I figure.

Why? Because it is fun! 

Contrary to popular belief, it does not make the shots for you. But who doesn’t like taking a 45 yard shot and having the arrow end up close to where you wanted it to, shooting exactly like you did last week without the thing?


----------



## cbowie

Ordered my A1i yesterday afternoon!!!









Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 8


----------



## ontarget7

This sight still amazes me at how well Garmin did their homework on this one. 










Literally, my favorite overall setup to date and I have owned a lot of archery products over the years. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

We should see more showing up, as they are shipping to retailers now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> This sight still amazes me at how well Garmin did their homework on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Literally, my favorite overall setup to date and I have owned a lot of archery products over the years.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If only there shipping dates matched the quality of the sight 
My order ship date has changed 5 times and nothing is giving me confidence I’ll get it by the end of April (like I’m being told now)

Getting really frustrated with the wait 
They have had my money since January and I was supposed to get it in February


And like you said “they are shipping to retailers”
Other people are getting them
And I was told my group of orders was high priority multiple times


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> If only there shipping dates matched the quality of the sight
> My order ship date has changed 5 times and nothing is giving me confidence I’ll get it by the end of April (like I’m being told now)
> 
> Getting really frustrated with the wait
> They have had my money since January and I was supposed to get it in February
> 
> 
> And like you said “they are shipping to retailers”
> Other people are getting them
> And I was told my group of orders was high priority multiple times


Understood 

As I have been there many times with products over the years. Some I have waited as long as 6 month with multiple delays. It’s always the first group of consumers that order that generally have to wait the longest. After that the product is generally readily available. 

In my own personal wait times with varying products over the years not all have been worth the wait. I can say for certain for me personally the Xero would not fall into that class. Definitely worth the wait, as I will end up having two of them this year. 

Hang in there 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

ontarget7 said:


> Understood
> 
> As I have been there many times with products over the years. Some I have waited as long as 6 month with multiple delays. It’s always the first group of consumers that order that generally have to wait the longest. After that the product is generally readily available.
> 
> In my own personal wait times with varying products over the years not all have been worth the wait. I can say for certain for me personally the Xero would not fall into that class. Definitely worth the wait, as I will end up having two of them this year.
> 
> Hang in there
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m hanging lol 

I agree I do believe it will be worth the wait 
Was hoping to give it a test run on Turkeys this year but not looking good for that 

I can’t wait to get it though 
Just a little venting


----------



## GaryinOK

Wife is telling me UPS just dropped off a box. Hoping it is what I think it is. Got mine on Amazon which is still showing out of stock, but they billed my card so they must be shipping some.


----------



## jacobh

Wonder how it'll be hunting in the snow? Snow getting into lense


----------



## Muleco

Rhino8124 said:


> I know I could look it up but it seems like it would be illegal in some states, many of which are out west where I think it would be most useful. Why not give hunters the tools to make the most ethical kills possible.


 I have always thought the same thing, makes very good sense. Unfortunately here in California our law makers and fish and game don't have that kind of mentality.


----------



## kicker338

bhutso said:


> If only there shipping dates matched the quality of the sight
> My order ship date has changed 5 times and nothing is giving me confidence I’ll get it by the end of April (like I’m being told now)
> 
> Getting really frustrated with the wait
> They have had my money since January and I was supposed to get it in February
> 
> 
> And like you said “they are shipping to retailers”
> Other people are getting them
> And I was told my group of orders was high priority multiple times


Hang in there bhutso, from what guys who have them are saying I'm betting, no I'm sure the wait will be worth it.


----------



## bhutso

kicker338 said:


> Hang in there bhutso, from what guys who have them are saying I'm betting, no I'm sure the wait will be worth it.


Thank you kicker 

I’ve been annoying the heck out of the dealer lol 
As have the others who have one on order 
Trying to be patient though, shouldn’t be long now

I can tell I will think twice before pre ordering anything again


----------



## bhutso

GaryinOK said:


> Wife is telling me UPS just dropped off a box. Hoping it is what I think it is. Got mine on Amazon which is still showing out of stock, but they billed my card so they must be shipping some.


Nice!!! I hope that’s what it is!


----------



## GaryinOK

Yeah that was it. Now I got to somehow survive the rest of the work day knowing there is a new toy at home.


----------



## bhutso

GaryinOK said:


> Yeah that was it. Now I got to somehow survive the rest of the work day knowing there is a new toy at home.


That’s the best and worst feeling lol 

Congrats be sure to let us know what you think


----------



## ppkaprince98

If and only if I buy one, I will wait until all these guys with the pre-orders start selling them for $400 in the classifieds!! :dancing: :set1_applaud:


----------



## bhutso

ppkaprince98 said:


> If and only if I buy one, I will wait until all these guys with the pre-orders start selling them for $400 in the classifieds!! :dancing: :set1_applaud:


I’ll set it on fire before I sell it for $400


----------



## Gamover06

GaryinOK said:


> Yeah that was it. Now I got to somehow survive the rest of the work day knowing there is a new toy at home.


That's why I love my job I get all my new toys sent to my work.... 2 birds one stone - I get it right away and don't have to wait to get home and the wife doesn't see it and ask did you really need more hunting stuff....I never understand why they always ask such dumb questions....of course I needed it.


----------



## GaryinOK

Yeah I used to do that, but she busted me. Something about financial infidelity, yada yada yada. Is there even such a thing? And yeah you're right that is a dumb question.


----------



## SDMac

Gamover06 said:


> That's why I love my job I get all my new toys sent to my work.... 2 birds one stone - I get it right away and don't have to wait to get home and the wife doesn't see it and ask did you really need more hunting stuff....I never understand why they always ask such dumb questions....of course I needed it.


I too have all my stuff shipped to my work. That way I have it in hand before my wife finds out. Only exception is that my wife works for USPS and I will have her track a package for me internally when they have not updated the tracking site. She just says "NOW what did you order????" :darkbeer:


----------



## "TheBlindArcher"

Still wondering about the windage adjustments and can it be mounted left handed on a right handed bow so someone could look over your shoulder to sight in?


----------



## busanga

DanT34 said:


> I am a tech kind of guy. I love the newest and greatest new things. Do I have to have every new product out there. No, not at all.
> 
> I see and hear guys complaining about where archery is headed with new technology. I don't get that at all. Do think guys on gun forums say "I cant believe where our modern day weapons are headed"? Probably not.
> So why would it be any different on an archery forum? It shouldn't!
> 
> If you are hunting with anything that has a cam or cams on it. You should have absolutely nothing but positive things to say about any new tech product that comes out.
> To hold the idea that you feel that archery is headed in the wrong directions, is, well dumb and doesn't make any sense.
> If it is a viable product that improves your accuracy and helps to produce a fast humane kill. What is the down side to that?
> 
> No matter what level of bow your shooting whether its a 1970s bow or the newest bow on the market.If it has cams on it, you are shooting a bow that is all about the newest and next best thing and was or is the highest tech thing in its time.
> Archery is and has always been a progression just like anything else. It starts out primitive and improves from there.
> 
> That is why humans are at the top of the food chain. We build things to make us better, faster and stronger and more lethal. If you hunt with a traditional bow I'm not nocking that. But don't nock everyone else
> because they choose to hunt the way they want to with the equipment they want.
> 
> I understand the whole traditional thing. I am looking to pick up a recurve and learn the art of shooting one. That is part of where archery has come from. I have respect for the history of archery.
> But at the same time, I am not going to be hanging a Garmin off the front of the recurve ether.
> 
> Just my two cents
> 
> Dan T.


well said....i think the aiconditioning in my car is totally unnecessary , would much prefer to sweat in the midday sun... come to think of it , i shouldnt be typing on this computer, is waaay too modern, we should all be sending telegrams...come to think of it.....etc etc


----------



## kicker338

ppkaprince98 said:


> If and only if I buy one, I will wait until all these guys with the pre-orders start selling them for $400 in the classifieds!! :dancing: :set1_applaud:


Hard to say on that, time will tell, the only thing I could think of that bring the used price down that much would be the warranty issue. If they stay pretty reliable the used price will stay up too.

A grand is a lot to pay for any sight so I doubt many who buy one will part with it any time soon, I know I wouldn't.
t.


----------



## Dunndm1

I would rather buy a used RX1 then a sight. But I do like the concept of this sight 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skynight

kicker338 said:


> Hard to say on that, time will tell, the only thing I could think of that bring the used price down that much would be the warranty issue. If they stay pretty reliable the used price will stay up too.
> 
> A grand is a lot to pay for any sight so I doubt many who buy one will part with it any time soon, I know I wouldn't.
> t.


You'd think so but they will be in the classifieds this summer. People buy on the hype, find out they don't need it or rather have something else. Or impulse buy beyond their means. See it every year with every bow, every accessory.


----------



## arcteryx112

I'd shell out 1000 in a heartbeat if they were legal in Washington and colorado.


----------



## Muleco

GaryinOK said:


> Yeah that was it. Now I got to somehow survive the rest of the work day knowing there is a new toy at home.


 Tell us what you think ( is life great or what?)


----------



## jmclfrsh

"TheBlindArcher" said:


> Still wondering about the windage adjustments and can it be mounted left handed on a right handed bow so someone could look over your shoulder to sight in?


Windage is still done manually. They do make a left-handed model. You’d have to make a thin bracket to allow a left-handed model to be placed on a right-handed bow.


----------



## ontarget7

Awesome setup 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## deadturkey

What kind of warranty does the Garmin have.
Has it fogged up on you?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## VF_MIKE

Mine arrived today. Now if the damn weather will cooperate I'd be even happier. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## wis. bowhunter

VF_MIKE said:


> Mine arrived today. Now if the damn weather will cooperate I'd be even happier.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Hello Mike could I ask you where you ordered yours from.? I preordered one and was wondering when it will show up. Thanks


----------



## VF_MIKE

wis. bowhunter said:


> Hello Mike could I ask you where you ordered yours from.? I preordered one and was wondering when it will show up. Thanks


Dealer posted one on here on Tuesday and I snatched it up. Wish I could be of more help.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## hillr3

Does anyone know if you lose the data stored when you change out the batteries?


----------



## jmclfrsh

hillr3 said:


> Does anyone know if you lose the data stored when you change out the batteries?


No, it does not lose the data. 

However, software upgrades WILL wipe out all your calibrations. But they have that sorted.

What will prevent this from happening is you connect the sight to your computer, and back it up to the Garmin Connect program by clicking “Back Up Now” - which saves your settings - then do the software upgrade.

You can then re-import your pin settings and you are right back where you were.

It is easier to do than to describe. It is very simple, to be honest.


----------



## Marcel S

arcteryx112 said:


> I'd shell out 1000 in a heartbeat if they were legal in Washington and colorado.


Me too!


----------



## bigbucks170

wondering if you can fit the Garmin mounted on a bow in a SKB 4119 bow case ....


----------



## THE ELKMAN

Agreed these are awesome products, just hate to see it strapped to a Maaathews Triax boat anchor... Actually kind of hurts the eyes. ;-)


----------



## Dryfly24

Belo said:


> some people drive cars more expensive than what many can afford for a house. It's only insane if $1k is a lot of money for someone personally to invest in bowhunting. When you consider the time and money we spend in other areas of the sport all for that split second opportunity... it may not really be that bad. It's all relative to the person.
> 
> In my opinion, it's nice to have the option.


I agree and think you hit the nail on the head. Guys spend more money on scopes than on their rifles all the time. I've done it myself. Why should this be any different? It's like you said, it depends on each person's financial situation. A thousand bucks might be a lot of money to one guy, while another might not even bat an eyelash at spending that much. People should quit judging and just worry about themselves. The world would be a much better place...


----------



## bhutso

This is random yardage between 25ish and 70 yards after I spent about an hour setting my Garmin A1i up 

I’m not as good long range as Shane is but I can hold my own 
It is effortless to range aim and shoot 

Judge me all you want 
I would rather spend the money on something like this that actually does improve my accuracy by giving me the correct yardage over a new bow that really won’t do anything to help me make better more confident shots


----------



## Dryfly24

bhutso said:


> This is random yardage between 25ish and 70 yards after I spent about an hour setting my Garmin A1i up
> 
> I’m not as good long range as Shane is but I can hold my own
> It is effortless to range aim and shoot
> 
> Judge me all you want
> I would rather spend the money on something like this that actually does improve my accuracy by giving me the correct yardage over a new bow that really won’t do anything to help me make better more confident shots
> 
> 
> View attachment 6486785


Very nice, enjoy your new toy! :darkbeer:

What yardages were those shot at if you don't mind saying?


----------



## bhutso

Dryfly24 said:


> Very nice, enjoy your new toy! :darkbeer:
> 
> What yardages were those shot at if you don't mind saying?


Thank you!!


----------



## Belo

bhutso said:


> This is random yardage between 25ish and 70 yards after I spent about an hour setting my Garmin A1i up
> 
> I’m not as good long range as Shane is but I can hold my own
> It is effortless to range aim and shoot
> 
> Judge me all you want
> I would rather spend the money on something like this that actually does improve my accuracy by giving me the correct yardage over a new bow that really won’t do anything to help me make better more confident shots
> 
> 
> View attachment 6486785


very cool!


----------



## ontarget7

bhutso said:


> This is random yardage between 25ish and 70 yards after I spent about an hour setting my Garmin A1i up
> 
> I’m not as good long range as Shane is but I can hold my own
> It is effortless to range aim and shoot
> 
> Judge me all you want
> I would rather spend the money on something like this that actually does improve my accuracy by giving me the correct yardage over a new bow that really won’t do anything to help me make better more confident shots
> 
> 
> View attachment 6486785


Congrats ! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kicker338

Congrats there bhutso, nothing wrong with that shooting, neither one of us are a Levi Morgan or an ontarget7 but we don't have to be, if we can put arrows in the bread basket it will be animal down.


----------



## Ultramarmot

bhutso said:


> This is random yardage between 25ish and 70 yards after I spent about an hour setting my Garmin A1i up
> 
> I’m not as good long range as Shane is but I can hold my own
> It is effortless to range aim and shoot
> 
> Judge me all you want
> I would rather spend the money on something like this that actually does improve my accuracy by giving me the correct yardage over a new bow that really won’t do anything to help me make better more confident shots
> 
> 
> View attachment 6486785


Very nice shooting! I'm looking a little more seriously at these after finding out some of my concerns were non-issues, like battery life. Easily hot swappable... Thank you for posting up your results with it.

I'm curious to hear if pushing the button disrupts your grip at all... like do you have to push it and resettle your grip, or is it a natural, easy move that doesn't affect it at all.

cheers


----------



## bhutso

Ultramarmot said:


> Very nice shooting! I'm looking a little more seriously at these after finding out some of my concerns were non-issues, like battery life. Easily hot swappable... Thank you for posting up your results with it.
> 
> I'm curious to hear if pushing the button disrupts your grip at all... like do you have to push it and resettle your grip, or is it a natural, easy move that doesn't affect it at all.
> 
> cheers


So for me, I shoot with my index and middle finger lightly touching the front of my riser anyway 

In setting the button up I accidentally put it too low (I intended to operate it with my index finger) but it fit my middle finger perfectly so I just went with it and it’s been very easy for me 

I press the button as I draw and once I’m on target I let off and relax my hand while still maintaining the light contact with my index and middle finger on the front of the riser (middle finger rests on the button Incase I need to re-range or switch to fixed pins)

It’s not much different than how I shoot my target bow so very easy transition for me 
If you shoot a different way it may take some getting use to 

I will say that while I can range at brace I find it quicker and more accurate to do it at full draw 

Reason being my string is in the way when I line up the range dot and reticle at brace and being at full draw is much more steady for me 
It really only adds a second to my shot to range at full draw


----------



## Ultramarmot

bhutso said:


> So for me, I shoot with my index and middle finger lightly touching the front of my riser anyway
> 
> In setting the button up I accidentally put it too low (I intended to operate it with my index finger) but it fit my middle finger perfectly so I just went with it and it’s been very easy for me
> 
> I press the button as I draw and once I’m on target I let off and relax my hand while still maintaining the light contact with my index and middle finger on the front of the riser (middle finger rests on the button Incase I need to re-range or switch to fixed pins)
> 
> It’s not much different than how I shoot my target bow so very easy transition for me
> If you shoot a different way it may take some getting use to
> 
> I will say that while I can range at brace I find it quicker and more accurate to do it at full draw
> 
> Reason being my string is in the way when I line up the range dot and reticle at brace and being at full draw is much more steady for me
> It really only adds a second to my shot to range at full draw


Right on...thanks for the feedback.


----------



## dnv23

bhutso said:


> So for me, I shoot with my index and middle finger lightly touching the front of my riser anyway
> 
> In setting the button up I accidentally put it too low (I intended to operate it with my index finger) but it fit my middle finger perfectly so I just went with it and it’s been very easy for me
> 
> I press the button as I draw and once I’m on target I let off and relax my hand while still maintaining the light contact with my index and middle finger on the front of the riser (middle finger rests on the button Incase I need to re-range or switch to fixed pins)
> 
> It’s not much different than how I shoot my target bow so very easy transition for me
> If you shoot a different way it may take some getting use to
> 
> I will say that while I can range at brace I find it quicker and more accurate to do it at full draw
> 
> Reason being my string is in the way when I line up the range dot and reticle at brace and being at full draw is much more steady for me
> It really only adds a second to my shot to range at full draw


Are you using the green dot or red? I couldn't see the Red dot very well on the A1 in lower settings or it was very blurry on higher settings. I have good vision too. Just curious if the green dot is clearer for you? I should be able to check the A1i out this weekend to see for myself.


----------



## bhutso

dnv23 said:


> Are you using the green dot or red? I couldn't see the Red dot very well on the A1 in lower settings or it was very blurry on higher settings. I have good vision too. Just curious if the green dot is clearer for you? I should be able to check the A1i out this weekend to see for myself.


I have tried both 

I didn’t have an issue with the red or green being blurry but I do see the green better 
So I have it set on green now 
In full sunlight I turn the brightness all the way up and it’s perfect for me 
Everyone’s eyes are different though unfortunately and you wouldn’t be the first to say they experience a blurry pin 
But I will say I wear contacts, I’m near sighted and have astigmatism and when the brightness is matched to the situation I’m in the dot is every bit as clear as any other pin sight I’ve used

I do think the green shows up a lot better in most situations though


----------



## Ultramarmot

bhutso said:


> I have tried both
> 
> I didn’t have an issue with the red or green being blurry but I do see the green better
> So I have it set on green now
> In full sunlight I turn the brightness all the way up and it’s perfect for me
> Everyone’s eyes are different though unfortunately and you wouldn’t be the first to say they experience a blurry pin
> But I will say I wear contacts, I’m near sighted and have astigmatism and when the brightness is matched to the situation I’m in the dot is every bit as clear as any other pin sight I’ve used
> 
> I do think the green shows up a lot better in most situations though


makes sense....green and yellow are apparently "brighter" to the eye than red. Did a little research prior to picking a nockturnal color


----------



## Bullhound

good to see some great reports on these. I am still having a hard time not getting one even though I could not use for hunting any big game animals here.


----------



## The Old Guy

Thanks for the review bhutso. That’s all I needed. Ordering one tonight. Sounds like the A1i is worth the extra money.


----------



## fferazzi

Ttt


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## NDHunter10

Will be a cold day in hell when I hook my bow up to a laptop.


----------



## The Old Guy

Ordered mine tonight! Should have it by the end of the week.


----------



## bhutso

The Old Guy said:


> Ordered mine tonight! Should have it by the end of the week.


Glad I could help 

I hope you like it as much as I do. Just came in from shooting, the more I shoot the more I love it 
I saw you ask in the other thread but I’m assuming you figured out I have the A1i


----------



## Evolve1960

Where is everyone ordering the A1 from?


----------



## The Old Guy

Evolve1960 said:


> Where is everyone ordering the A1 from?


Both models are available from Amazon.


----------



## The Old Guy

bhutso said:


> Glad I could help
> 
> I hope you like it as much as I do. Just came in from shooting, the more I shoot the more I love it
> I saw you ask in the other thread but I’m assuming you figured out I have the A1i


Yes, I ordered the A1i. Thanks for posting your thoughts.


----------



## Evolve1960

Thank you The Old Guy.


----------



## mxz500ss

bhutso said:


> Glad I could help
> 
> I hope you like it as much as I do. Just came in from shooting, the more I shoot the more I love it
> I saw you ask in the other thread but I’m assuming you figured out I have the A1i


Nice review have you shot it in target mode if so does it show if you are torquing the bow at full draw.


----------



## ontarget7

mxz500ss said:


> Nice review have you shot it in target mode if so does it show if you are torquing the bow at full draw.


After bow is in tune and set up to your grip that coincides with said tune anytime you range the target the torque indicator will appear. The circle ⭕ with the dot in the middle will verify alignment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

mxz500ss said:


> Nice review have you shot it in target mode if so does it show if you are torquing the bow at full draw.


Yes I have shot in practice mode 

As Shane said the way the range finder works gives you a torque indicator 
The shot dynamic feature shows you if you had the bow canted at all, tells you how long the bow vibrated and keeps a shot counter


----------



## mxz500ss

^^^^thank you


----------



## 10thMTN

I played with one at the shop last Saturday. It was pretty neat a lot of plastic though in so sure to keep weight down. I like it and definitely like the concept but a definite no go when it comes to shooting anything but known class and that just no fun.


----------



## Ultramarmot

10thMTN said:


> I played with one at the shop last Saturday. It was pretty neat a lot of plastic though in so sure to keep weight down. I like it and definitely like the concept but a definite no go when it comes to shooting anything but known class and that just no fun.


I love known class... To me it's more like hunting where I range first, then shoot. If was shooting trad, different story.

I was wondering about the plastic too. I like how solid my spot hogg hunter is. For the Xero's price it should be made of Ti  I'd be all over that.


----------



## bhutso

Dryfly24 said:


> Very nice, enjoy your new toy! :darkbeer:
> 
> What yardages were those shot at if you don't mind saying?


I’m sorry I didn’t see the question in your post

One was 25, one was 70, the other two were somewhere in between. One was 35-40 and one was in the 50s 
Just walked back and stopped every so often to shoot


----------



## Mauritian

Does anyone know the Max range of the range finder?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Mauritian said:


> Does anyone know the Max range of the range finder?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


100 yards 
I ran out of room at 84 

My bow is shooting 305 with a 440 grain arrow 
Not sure what changes could be made to get to 100 other than reduce arrow weight but for me 84 is double what i need


----------



## Mauritian

I’m wondering about max ranges, and if the sight can be used during W&S. Like if I see an animal at 650 yds, will it give me the info? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bhutso

Mauritian said:


> I’m wondering about max ranges, and if the sight can be used during W&S. Like if I see an animal at 650 yds, will it give me the info?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No 
It’s a bowhunting sight

I believe the max on a big reflective target is said to be 300? Not sure though


----------



## Mauritian

Thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rnsams

Just got mine today and spent tonight setting it up. Long story short, it is amazing. The set up is timely but not difficult. Once you have it set up you can just walk around and take shots from anywhere. Tons of fun. 
I found it to be very accurate. I haven’t shot it past 45 yds but it has great groupings. Btw. I did not find it to weigh that much but I am coming from a CBE tek hybrid pro which is pretty stout. 
If you’re on the fence and can afford it,,buy it. It definitely makes me want to shoot my bow more and isn’t that the point?

Bought mine from bean outdoors. First purchase from them but very happy with their customer service and free shipping 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ontarget7

rnsams said:


> Just got mine today and spent tonight setting it up. Long story short, it is amazing. The set up is timely but not difficult. Once you have it set up you can just walk around and take shots from anywhere. Tons of fun.
> I found it to be very accurate. I haven’t shot it past 45 yds but it has great groupings. Btw. I did not find it to weigh that much but I am coming from a CBE tek hybrid pro which is pretty stout.
> If you’re on the fence and can afford it,,buy it. It definitely makes me want to shoot my bow more and isn’t that the point?
> 
> Bought mine from bean outdoors. First purchase from them but very happy with their customer service and free shipping
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


You are going to see quite a few that will have the same experience ^^^^
[emoji1360]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

Hopefully setting mine up tomorrow. It looks awesome on my Halon 32.


----------



## hillr3

I just got my A1 calibrated and have a question .... when I range while in the target mode I don’t get the reticle while ranging .... is this normal?


----------



## bhutso

hillr3 said:


> I just got my A1 calibrated and have a question .... when I range while in the target mode I don’t get the reticle while ranging .... is this normal?


It’s happened to me and It had to do with the brightness 

Go to your brightness settings 
Select reticle and turn it up 
That should make it visible


----------



## bhutso

hillr3 said:


> I just got my A1 calibrated and have a question .... when I range while in the target mode I don’t get the reticle while ranging .... is this normal?


It’s happened to me and It had to do with the brightness 

Go to your brightness settings 
Select reticle and turn it up 
That should make it visible 

I have contemplated turning it down because I’ve had no issue being consistent with it and i kinda like just having the dot 
Haven’t done it yet though


----------



## Belo

so what happened here? So much hype and then crickets.


----------



## busanga

^^^ everybody enjoying it so much they out shooting


----------



## General RE LEE

Anyone have reservations using this as a hunting sight?


----------



## General RE LEE

Question and my apologies if this has already been addressed:

If the sight will drop a pin based off the yardage it ranges, what is the purpose of multiple pins? So if I range my target at 46 yards, will it drop me a pin for 46 yards? My only thought for multi pins in this sight is if the game or target moves.


----------



## zwalls

rnsams said:


> Just got mine today and spent tonight setting it up. Long story short, it is amazing. The set up is timely but not difficult. Once you have it set up you can just walk around and take shots from anywhere. Tons of fun.
> I found it to be very accurate. I haven’t shot it past 45 yds but it has great groupings. Btw. I did not find it to weigh that much but I am coming from a CBE tek hybrid pro which is pretty stout.
> If you’re on the fence and can afford it,,buy it. It definitely makes me want to shoot my bow more and isn’t that the point?
> 
> Bought mine from bean outdoors. First purchase from them but very happy with their customer service and free shipping
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


just curious....where did you mount your button to range with. would you have a pic and any suggestions?


----------



## The Old Guy

Too busy shooting the sight and loving it. I shot it at dusk last night just to see how it would perform. It performed as good or better than anything else I have ever used. My accuracy at random distances and confidence is at an all time high. 

If you have the money, I certainly recommend the Xero A1i, or Burris Oracle if you prefer. This type of sight is here to stay.


----------



## Mauritian

zwalls said:


> just curious....where did you mount your button to range with. would you have a pic and any suggestions?


Mines in front of the grip where my index finger sits. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jluepke

Following...


----------



## platonicbomb

nice rig


----------



## Reelrydor

I am thinking I am in trouble with this sight--Im pretty sure my fletchings are hitting the housing. Ive had this issue w black gold sights and others. I had to get the short draw mount. With the whole range finder and rectile thing I dont think this is possible--I think I found a major hole. I would also suggest turn n click adjustments. The curved ones especially are a pain when the slip all over and have to be exact. I just got it ranged after like 4 hrs and 2 evenings. Would be much easier w micro adjustments and something better than tape to mount button


----------



## aeds151

This is why we wait for real world reviews. Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Garceau

I want one.... RH

If anyone is selling. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## frog gigger

^^^https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5474569


----------



## General RE LEE

frog gigger said:


> ^^^https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5474569


Dang did the wife check the credit card statement? Hahaha




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Garceau

What's the warranty on these? Searching the garmin website and not finding info from my phone

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

One year warranty I believe


----------



## ontarget7

Reelrydor said:


> I am thinking I am in trouble with this sight--Im pretty sure my fletchings are hitting the housing. Ive had this issue w black gold sights and others. I had to get the short draw mount. With the whole range finder and rectile thing I dont think this is possible--I think I found a major hole. I would also suggest turn n click adjustments. The curved ones especially are a pain when the slip all over and have to be exact. I just got it ranged after like 4 hrs and 2 evenings. Would be much easier w micro adjustments and something better than tape to mount button


This is more than likely a setup issue or form issue in relation to how far your nocking point is to your peep height. This can have a direct impact on where your housing sits. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

General RE LEE said:


> Anyone have reservations using this as a hunting sight?


I just ordered mine for my hunting bow. I will be using it on my safari, but I will have several months of practice with this prior to taking it over there.

This will accomplish what I really wanted to do and that is run multiple arrows with the same bow. I will have 3 options on arrows when I am over there and can use just the one bow for them all - 500 grain arrows for the small "jumpy" animals, 950 grains for the really big stuff and 1,250 grains for the animals who we dare not post trophy pics of on Facebook. I can also have another arrow profile for my 3D and practice arrows (I prefer to practice with aluminum shafts so they don't melt the backstops at the range).



General RE LEE said:


> Question and my apologies if this has already been addressed:
> 
> If the sight will drop a pin based off the yardage it ranges, what is the purpose of multiple pins? So if I range my target at 46 yards, will it drop me a pin for 46 yards? My only thought for multi pins in this sight is if the game or target moves.


The multiple pins would be for instances where you cannot get a solid read on the range or if there is otherwise a malfunction on the rangefinder. One other option that nobody has mentioned here is for pin stacking for ultra long shots. I have to shoot 100+ yard targets at the 3D events out here in California and my sights will go there on my target bow, but not my hunting bows and I have to stack. I actually had to stack 4 pins on a couple targets a few weeks ago. A pin stacking option would be awesome, where if it ranges at 100 yards but your lowest shot you can display is 82, it can calculate out the gap and post a red and green dot - place the green at the target and then move it to the location where the red dot is and release.


----------



## bigbucks170

Shot mine today ...the more I shoot it the more I like it ...lots of fun ..its amazing ..want to practice with it a lot before season


----------



## Garceau

The Old Guy said:


> One year warranty I believe


thats my problem "I believe" portion - I am going to have to call them today. I need to know if its transferable if I buy a used one, or only to original owner etc.....

The burris has my attention just for the fact of the warranty but they dont seem to be available anywhere right now.


----------



## Belo

aeds151 said:


> This is why we wait for real world reviews. Cheers!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


real world reviews and with tech, gen2 is usually where I give my credit card info.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

So I got my Garmin Xero A1i and am setting it up. I need to tape the trigger to the grip, but I don't really want to tape over the Mathews wood inlay. This tape looks like some serious stuff and I would hate to ruin the finish on the rare wood inlay.

Anybody tape their site to a Mathews bow and avoid getting tape on the wood?


----------



## The Old Guy

I doubt the tape will hurt the wood. I have the focus grip and ended up using electrical tape after screwing up the tape the site came with. Worked great for me. Good luck. I love the sight. I am sure you will too.


----------



## bigbucks170

I used indoor outdoor mounting tape by Loctite did not hurt the finish on my Carbon handle ...I also have Gorilla glue mounting 
tape ...I have to replace the tape after awhile but works good...


----------



## Willyboys

Mr.Poindexter said:


> So I got my Garmin Xero A1i and am setting it up. I need to tape the trigger to the grip, but I don't really want to tape over the Mathews wood inlay. This tape looks like some serious stuff and I would hate to ruin the finish on the rare wood inlay.
> 
> Anybody tape their site to a Mathews bow and avoid getting tape on the wood?


I used a 3M Automotive double sided tape (I believe it is a body moulding tape) to stick it to the front of the riser. This eliminates the need to wrap around the grip. I read about on AT that it can be removed. I hope that is the case when needed.


----------



## Don_P

Willyboys said:


> I used a 3M Automotive double sided tape (I believe it is a body moulding tape) to stick it to the front of the riser. This eliminates the need to wrap around the grip. I read about on AT that it can be removed. I hope that is the case when needed.


Same here. Worked great. No issues at all with removing it. I needed a little plastic wedge to prevent the switch from bending. Tape on switch, tape on riser, wedge in between, stick them together, solid as a rock.


----------



## bigbucks170

^^^^ awesome I has having a little issue because of that flexing and coming un taped...thanks !!!


----------



## ontarget7

50 reps at 15 yards



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Buckfevr

41 yards from an elevated position. I find the Xero very forgiving.

It did freeze again on me so I contacted Garmin and they said that the latest upgrade is supposed to have a fix, so make sure to update the software. Probably the biggest thing I had to burn in was getting on the button when coming to full draw but that's pretty much burned in now.

Not sure why the picture is sideways.


----------



## dnv23

Buckfevr said:


> View attachment 6613219
> 
> 
> 41 yards from an elevated position. I find the Xero very forgiving.
> 
> It did freeze again on me so I contacted Garmin and they said that the latest upgrade is supposed to have a fix, so make sure to update the software. Probably the biggest thing I had to burn in was getting on the button when coming to full draw but that's pretty much burned in now.
> 
> Not sure why the picture is sideways.


Hold your phone horizontally when you take pictures you want to post on AT. They will post right side up if you do that.


----------



## westhall55

That’s pretty cool!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Buckfevr

Anyone know what tape that is that they supply to secure the trigger?


----------



## mxz500ss

Has anyone mounted the trigger button on a PSE Evolve with the groove on the front of the grip?


----------



## ontarget7

mxz500ss said:


> Has anyone mounted the trigger button on a PSE Evolve with the groove on the front of the grip?


Yes, mounts just fine on them




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mauritian

I just bought some "Tenacious tape" from Gear Aid. It looks exactly the same.


----------



## maxiek

Love mine. The more that I use it, the more that I like it. If someone had to choose between buying a new bow and buying this sight..........BUY THIS SIGHT!!!


----------



## Buckfevr

Mauritian said:


> I just bought some "Tenacious tape" from Gear Aid. It looks exactly the same.


Thanks!


----------



## Buckfevr

Well unfortunately mine stopped working. Troubleshooting with Garmin revealed a hardware problem so I'm shipping mine back and they're shipping me a new one. They provided me a return label and will ship once they get mine - 2 day shipping. Looks like early season is out for me, but at least I am familiar with the sight and it shouldn't take me too long to set up again.


----------



## bigbucks170

Buckfevr said:


> Well unfortunately mine stopped working. Troubleshooting with Garmin revealed a hardware problem so I'm shipping mine back and they're shipping me a new one. They provided me a return label and will ship once they get mine - 2 day shipping. Looks like early season is out for me, but at least I am familiar with the sight and it shouldn't take me too long to set up again.


wow sorry to hear ...yeah setting one back up after being familiar with it, won't take long at all..


----------



## The Old Guy

I sat in the tree stand Oct. 4th for the first time. Shot a doe. My real world review is the Garmin Xero A1i worked perfectly. Much less movement in the stand because I didn't have to range until I drew back. It was one of those where she was under me before I even knew she was there. No time to prepare. Drew back, instant range, instant pin, sight picture completely uncluttered, then a clean ethical shot. The Garmin did exactly what Garmin said it would do. For the naysayers, it was a beautiful evening, no rain, fog, and the shot was under 20 yards. I did not NEED this sight to be successful, but it sure was fun.


----------



## frog gigger

I'm not a naysayer, but do you guys really range a deer that's under 20 yards before you'll shoot???


----------



## bigbucks170

frog gigger said:


> I'm not a naysayer, but do you guys really range a deer that's under 20 yards before you'll shoot???


you have to push the range button for a pin to come up ..so yes


----------



## Buckfevr

frog gigger said:


> I'm not a naysayer, but do you guys really range a deer that's under 20 yards before you'll shoot???


You don't have to range you could just press the button twice to display the fixed pins. Personally for real close shots I would range as the 20 can be off an inch or 2 right up close to the stand. I think you have to experience the sight as I had the same concerns, it's really instantaneous and then you get the exact precision in terns of range and a clear FOV. It's remarkably forgiving in terms of accuracy, as it takes the variance of range estimation completely out of the equation.


----------



## chilepeligroso

I just got a xero a1i, and I wear glasses, does any body have problems seeing the pins well with glasses on?

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Buckfevr

Does anyone know what the Backlight function does? I noticed that there was an adjustment for it and wondered about it.


----------



## bigbucks170

Buckfevr said:


> Does anyone know what the Backlight function does? I noticed that there was an adjustment for it and wondered about it.


its the display that you read and navigate options on...you can have it light up or just read the black lettering


----------



## Buckfevr

bigbucks170 said:


> its the display that you read and navigate options on...you can have it light up or just read the black lettering


Ok thanks.


----------



## Buckfevr

How are you guys finding it in low light conditions? My buddy was using his last night and said he lost the last 10 minutes of legal because he couldn't see the target.


----------



## wis. bowhunter

Buckfevr said:


> How are you guys finding it in low light conditions? My buddy was using his last night and said he lost the last 10 minutes of legal because he couldn't see the target.


I have been turning the pin brightness way down for the last hour of legal shooting and it seems to work ok.


----------



## ontarget7

*Garmin Xero Sight, Wow !!! &gt;———-&gt;*



Buckfevr said:


> How are you guys finding it in low light conditions? My buddy was using his last night and said he lost the last 10 minutes of legal because he couldn't see the target.


Is not being able to see the target, sight related when you have a wide open field of view ? 

I actually feel low light is better with the Xero since you do have the wide open field of view. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

I have not hunted really low light yet this year, but I have practiced at home and turning the brightness down seems to work very well.


----------



## Buckfevr

wis. bowhunter said:


> I have been turning the pin brightness way down for the last hour of legal shooting and it seems to work ok.





ontarget7 said:


> Is not being able to see the target, sight related when you have a wide open field of view ?
> 
> I actually feel low light is better with the Xero since you do have the wide open field of view.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





The Old Guy said:


> I have not hunted really low light yet this year, but I have practiced at home and turning the brightness down seems to work very well.


So another buddy of mine has one for his son and they tested it last night past legal and his son had no problem with target acquisition and was just drilling them in there. When I get my replacement, I'll check it for low light conditions as well.


----------



## Willyboys

As for durability, here is one example. I have an A1i on a Triax. I put a "SlingaLing" sling on the bow and didn't have the bottom hooked up correctly. On my way down a ladder stand, the sling let loose and the bow dropped about 10 feet. Ground was wet and soft. Arrows and quiver seemed to absorb the most of the impact. The A1i had mud in the scope so it hit also. When I got back home, the sight was locked up electrically. Removed and reinstalled the battery and it fired up again. I noticed the laser aim had moved vertically a tad. I checked the sight over carefully and it looked solid and undamaged. Something changed though - maybe the impact caused the vertical laser adjustment (curved part) to move. Don't know. 

In any case, I readjusted the laser aim and went out and shot at various distances. Vertically, it was hitting slightly high so I moved the sight up. Checked again and it was hitting true from 20 to 50 yards. I am back in business. Sling won't let me down another time.


----------



## Buckfevr

Right, I am not troubled by what happened in my case. Garmin has an excellent record in terms of reliability and there are going to be a small number of bad units especially on the first iteration. I view it as pure bad luck in my case that there was a hardware problem. And there were some small issues of inconsistency with the electronics on mine from the beginning so I think the problem was there all along and it finally just went. 

I dropped it off Friday midday and yesterday it was already in Kansas, hopefully the turn around is quick.


----------



## Buckfevr

So I dropped it off mid day on Friday October 5th at the UPS store. They received it on the morning of Tuesday, October 9th, they shipped the replacement on Thursday October 11th and I received it today. So that's about a 10 day turn around. Anyway I have it mounted up, updated the software and I'll head to the range Wednesday to sight in. Hopefully now that I'm familiar with it it won't take too long to sight in. I wanted to get a few hunts in before the rut and maybe I still can.

I'm going to sight in directly from an elevated position with the gear on so once it's sighted in, I'll be good to go. 

But whatever it takes. No way I go into the field unless I'm 100%.


----------



## Buckfevr

So I wound up wasting a bunch of time because I just forgot you move the reticle to the pin, I think I shot 4 groups before I realized I was doing it the opposite way. One thing though, when I was setting it up there was this "move pin" option, that you could scroll to. I don't remember that being there. What is that?


----------



## wis. bowhunter

Buckfevr said:


> So I wound up wasting a bunch of time because I just forgot you move the reticle to the pin, I think I shot 4 groups before I realized I was doing it the opposite way. One thing though, when I was setting it up there was this "move pin" option, that you could scroll to. I don't remember that being there. What is that?


I think that gives you the option of moving the pin and reticle that comes up when you press the ranging button up or down.


----------



## Mauritian

Buckfevr said:


> So I wound up wasting a bunch of time because I just forgot you move the reticle to the pin, I think I shot 4 groups before I realized I was doing it the opposite way. One thing though, when I was setting it up there was this "move pin" option, that you could scroll to. I don't remember that being there. What is that?


It lets you adjust the height of the first pin position inside the scope. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davefriend100

Been shooting mine for three weeks now and LOVE it....


----------



## davefriend100

Only issue is getting a lot of noise at the shot, added a Bow Jax and that didn't help almost seems like it's the "glass" for the laser?


----------



## davefriend100

Any suggestions?


----------



## ontarget7

davefriend100 said:


> Any suggestions?


The yellow ring around the housing. Take that off and see if it goes away


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Buckfevr

New update version 3.0 adds some interesting features. It's too soon to the season for me to be playing around right now though. Just dialing in my shooting.


----------



## Buckfevr

ontarget7 said:


> The yellow ring around the housing. Take that off and see if it goes away
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What yellow ring?


----------



## gunrunr

New update is awesome - especially love the new digital level it shows in bottom of scope


----------



## archerichards

The Old Guy said:


> I sat in the tree stand Oct. 4th for the first time. Shot a doe. My real world review is the Garmin Xero A1i worked perfectly. Much less movement in the stand because I didn't have to range until I drew back. It was one of those where she was under me before I even knew she was there. No time to prepare. Drew back, instant range, instant pin, sight picture completely uncluttered, then a clean ethical shot. The Garmin did exactly what Garmin said it would do. For the naysayers, it was a beautiful evening, no rain, fog, and the shot was under 20 yards. I did not NEED this sight to be successful, but it sure was fun.


Just wondering...how does the Garmin do on near vértice shots, ie, right under your stand?


----------



## Buckfevr

gunrunr said:


> New update is awesome - especially love the new digital level it shows in bottom of scope


I agree that's a crazy good feature. It's just too close to my rut hunt to add that now. Next year I'll put that back on and burn it in.

I hope also that they update the owners manual to go over all the new features. Feels like we have to figure out the functionality on our own.


----------



## The Old Guy

archerichards said:


> Just wondering...how does the Garmin do on near vértice shots, ie, right under your stand?


The shot I had was 12 yards. The angle was fairly steep, but not right under my stand. Point of impact was perfect. I doesn't really have a 3rd axis adjustment with exception of setting up the reticle for the rangefinder.


----------



## bigbucks170

gunrunr said:


> New update is awesome - especially love the new digital level it shows in bottom of scope


if you update is it a big change ? a little worried to update


----------



## kballer1

Sounds like there GPS's No owner's manual.


----------



## bigbucks170

Updated ....all good


----------



## gunrunr

bigbucks170 said:


> if you update is it a big change ? a little worried to update


Updated mine and then checked sight marks again - all was still on - just had to go into menu and set level to 0 and activate the level display - very easy and a super nifty feature.

I have one extra Garmin A1i RH here new in box - mine works so well i have not set up a backup - anyone want a really good deal on one?? - send me a PM


----------



## The Old Guy

I updated today. I like the level marks. Pretty cool.


----------



## ontarget7

Shot two Whitetails in the damp and foggy weather this last week with zero issues. Xero performed perfect 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

Very Cool.....Congrats ..great to see it perform in weather like that ...super pumped to hunt with mine


----------



## jmclfrsh

I sure am glad I got mine. Nothing against mechanical sights but this makes it fun to shoot, too.

And updating the software is no issue. I didn’t even back mine up before updating, the update appeared first so I did it and all my fixed pins are still there. 

It would be relatively easy to make backing up the current sight settings the first step in the program, and they must have done so. 

Garmin Express also allows you to go to an earlier version if need be, but why would you want to.


----------



## ontarget7

bigbucks170 said:


> Very Cool.....Congrats ..great to see it perform in weather like that ...super pumped to hunt with mine


Thanks !
It’s been over a year now testing it and really don’t see me going back to a standard sight. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kevin2

*My LBS wasn't sure about this question, does the Xero give you a shooting point for every yardage?* OR, just give you the closest pin you sighted in? I see you can enter unlimited amounts of set pins for situations when you can't get an accurate yardage.


----------



## bigbucks170

ontarget7 said:


> Thanks !
> It’s been over a year now testing it and really don’t see me going back to a standard sight.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think I could go back to a regular sight for hunting either ...


----------



## Ryjax

I’ve held off on getting one (which was extremely hard lol) waiting to hear reviews from the field.
Now, I can’t decide if I want to order one immediately, or wait to see if they release an updated model at the ATA....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

I can't see myself ever going back to fixed pins or even a one pin slider. After shooting the Xero A1i all summer and during hunting season, it is truly awesome!


----------



## j.d.m.

To ask Kevin's question again, when you range a distance, does the sight use the exact spot needed, or does it use a pre-set calibrated pin? I just r curved mine, and am waiting until my season is over to set it up. Just getting all info I can. So far, the red reticle that you line up with green arrows and circle, is blurry. Hope that clears up when the sight is set up correctly with line of sight. I just messed with it holding it out in front of me using demo mode. If it keeps/ stays as blurry as it is, and the pins appear just as blurry, I will have to pass it up, and stick with regular sights.


----------



## ontarget7

j.d.m. said:


> To ask Kevin's question again, when you range a distance, does the sight use the exact spot needed, or does it use a pre-set calibrated pin? I just r curved mine, and am waiting until my season is over to set it up. Just getting all info I can. So far, the red reticle that you line up with green arrows and circle, is blurry. Hope that clears up when the sight is set up correctly with line of sight. I just messed with it holding it out in front of me using demo mode. If it keeps/ stays as blurry as it is, and the pins appear just as blurry, I will have to pass it up, and stick with regular sights.


Exact ranged distance when in that mode


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kevin2

As for the pins being blurry, I found that to be true as well. I shot it on my bow today at the LBS, and the brighter the pin setting, the more blurry and haze coming off the pin, almost like smoke or a shadow coming of it in all directions. The only thing that helped was to set it at its lowest brightness. I am not sure about this sight. It seemed heavier in hand and more tippy then the Burris Oracle as well, I'm assuming due to it being longer in the front and farther away from the center of the bow, which was a bummer. 



j.d.m. said:


> To ask Kevin's question again, when you range a distance, does the sight use the exact spot needed, or does it use a pre-set calibrated pin? I just r curved mine, and am waiting until my season is over to set it up. Just getting all info I can. So far, the red reticle that you line up with green arrows and circle, is blurry. Hope that clears up when the sight is set up correctly with line of sight. I just messed with it holding it out in front of me using demo mode. If it keeps/ stays as blurry as it is, and the pins appear just as blurry, I will have to pass it up, and stick with regular sights.


----------



## ontarget7

Those with astigmatism will suffer the most with the blurry starburst effect. Not just saying that as I fall in that category. 

The lowest settings is key to minimizing this. With that said, I will more than likely shoot with a lens most the off season and then always hunt with the Xero. The blurriness and starburst effect really doesn’t effect my shots when hunting and really like not having a range finder with the wide open field of view. However in the off season honing in on pin float and shot execution I still enjoy using a lens as of late. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## j.d.m.

A lens? I assume a whole differnt sight? Or can a lens be installed on the zero to magnify/ clear up pins? Yes, I have an astigmatism, but it doesn't change when I wear my contacts. The red retinal isn't anywhere near a dot, it's just a streak that is at least 2x the size of the green circle. I can see the green arrows and circle perfect, but the red dot looks like an exploding star streaking in the distance. Kind of disappointing. I'm gonna still set it up and see what the actual pins look like. If I can't get them to resemble an a dot and be accurate, then it's getting a new home. Price is way too steep to have this kind of clarity from it. I have no trouble with my HHA one pin sight as far as clear crisp pin visibility.


----------



## ontarget7

j.d.m. said:


> A lens? I assume a whole differnt sight? Or can a lens be installed on the zero to magnify/ clear up pins? Yes, I have an astigmatism, but it doesn't change when I wear my contacts. The red retinal isn't anywhere near a dot, it's just a streak that is at least 2x the size of the green circle. I can see the green arrows and circle perfect, but the red dot looks like an exploding star streaking in the distance. Kind of disappointing. I'm gonna still set it up and see what the actual pins look like. If I can't get them to resemble an a dot and be accurate, then it's getting a new home. Price is way too steep to have this kind of clarity from it. I have no trouble with my HHA one pin sight as far as clear crisp pin visibility.


HHA with a lens

Again, you don’t have it setup and lower setting will be best with an astigmatism. Accuracy, I don’t have any issues as I can still shoot great groups that equal my groups with a lens. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scott_co

I wish CO would come around and make the Xero legal for hunting.


----------



## The Old Guy

I have astigmatism and wear corrective lenses. The Xero A1i works great for me. I have found that dimming down the sight helps me. It is the best low light sight that I have ever used. The auto-dimming on this sight is awesome. Taking the time to set up the sight perfectly will be time well spent. Do not get in a hurry.


----------



## KansasPAL

I have been really interested in this sight!

Just a Kansas boy looking for big bucks and little meat in the freezer


----------



## deer slayer 11

bigbucks170 said:


> I don't think I could go back to a regular sight for hunting either ...
> View attachment 6661237
> 
> View attachment 6661239
> 
> View attachment 6661241


Does that sight cover work good on that sight?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## j.d.m.

Well, I attempted to at least "dry fit" it to my Bowtech Experience. I'm going to have to find a new quiver for my arrows, as I only get to use 3 out of the 4 spots due to the middle adjustment arch piece. My quiver is a 2 piece I made myself and fir perfect with HHA. Also, my bow has a curved grip, so the button doesn't sit flat on front of riser. I did see someone made small wedge to accommodate that. I will have to make something like that as well. Any one else have tricks they used to mount the button? The little bit I messed with the functions and settings, I'm liking it so far. Definitely not a sight you just throw on and head out back for 15 minutes. Any other tricks, tips and hints, post up. Also, ice like to see Garmin make this sight compatible with more of their GPS units then the Oregon series. I literally just bought the GPS map 64st witch has wifi and what not. Would be nice if that was compatible with the laser location feature. Or even a smartphone app that works with just that. Hopefully in the near future they support the laser function through phone app.


----------



## pa.hunter

https://www.burrisoptics.com/bowsights/oracle/oracle-rangefinding-bow-sight i like this one better


----------



## j.d.m.

I set it up today, might have to recheck it, or do it over. All went good and easy just as directions state. When I was all done and calibration confirmed complete, I hit the button to make the fixed pins show on glass, and my 35 yard line seems to be off. I can see the nice progression from 20 to 25 to 30, then my 35 is tight to 30, then a big gap to 40, and the rest are nice proportions that make sense. Just wondering how my 35 is "off" looking. Especially since the setup asks to use 10 yard incrimemts, and 35 was not one I used to setup. Otherwise, I think I might redo it later anyway, as I don't like how close the 20 yard pin is to the top of the sight picture. 
All that being said, and I think it's just that I need to make sure I did everything right, the sight is sweet, and I'm liking it more as I fool with it. Even though the pins a star effecting, it's not bad enough I can't make a precise kill shot with it. Gonna hunt with it tomorrow and see. I ended up just removing one arrow from my quiver for now, as the curved adjustment piece gets in the way of my 3rd arrow. Now I only have 3 in the quiver, so I guess my shots have to count.


----------



## bigbucks170

deer slayer 11 said:


> Does that sight cover work good on that sight?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


yes I bought two ...I keep one in my pack in case I loose one , been there done that ..lol


----------



## deer slayer 11

Cool, I just got the garmin sight and definitely want to protect it. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## The Old Guy

j.d.m. said:


> I set it up today, might have to recheck it, or do it over. All went good and easy just as directions state. When I was all done and calibration confirmed complete, I hit the button to make the fixed pins show on glass, and my 35 yard line seems to be off. I can see the nice progression from 20 to 25 to 30, then my 35 is tight to 30, then a big gap to 40, and the rest are nice proportions that make sense. Just wondering how my 35 is "off" looking. Especially since the setup asks to use 10 yard incrimemts, and 35 was not one I used to setup. Otherwise, I think I might redo it later anyway, as I don't like how close the 20 yard pin is to the top of the sight picture.
> All that being said, and I think it's just that I need to make sure I did everything right, the sight is sweet, and I'm liking it more as I fool with it. Even though the pins a star effecting, it's not bad enough I can't make a precise kill shot with it. Gonna hunt with it tomorrow and see. I ended up just removing one arrow from my quiver for now, as the curved adjustment piece gets in the way of my 3rd arrow. Now I only have 3 in the quiver, so I guess my shots have to count.


That starring on your pins should get better as you lower the brightness level. Also make sure your auto brightness is on.


----------



## j.d.m.

I have the auto brightness turned on. The starring isn't all too bad if I focus a certain way. I started another thread tonight on my sight freezing up. It has the 3.0 software update on it, according to the info in the settings menu. I thought the 3.0 was supposed to fix that? No? Batteries read full on the display, and they are lithiums.


----------



## The Old Guy

j.d.m. said:


> I have the auto brightness turned on. The starring isn't all too bad if I focus a certain way. I started another thread tonight on my sight freezing up. It has the 3.0 software update on it, according to the info in the settings menu. I thought the 3.0 was supposed to fix that? No? Batteries read full on the display, and they are lithiums.


All I can tell you is mine has not frozen since the first software upgrade. I hope that's not a problem you have again.


----------



## trucker3573

deer slayer 11 said:


> Does that sight cover work good on that sight?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Just curious what broadhead you used to take that buck? Did it penetrate well past the shoulder blade?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## trucker3573

bigbucks170 said:


> I don't think I could go back to a regular sight for hunting either ...
> View attachment 6661237
> 
> View attachment 6661239
> 
> View attachment 6661241


Meant to quote this guy..lol

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

Rage Trypan complete pass through 27"dl 74.4 lbs @ 16 yards though ....393 gr arrow exited out the left shoulder and broke
the back few inches of my arrow


----------



## bigbucks170

only went 26 yards and died in sight ..


----------



## Flyfish

Thats a great deer


----------



## zwalls

was wondering if any of you guys who own the xero which sight cover do you use if any at all? 

thanks in advance!


----------



## The Old Guy

I use the cover that comes with the Xero. I am sure there are others, but it works okay.


----------



## cbowie

I use the Sight Slicker from Alpine Products and it's absolutely perfect!









Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## zwalls

The Old Guy said:


> I use the cover that comes with the Xero. I am sure there are others, but it works okay.


I didn't notice one in my box. I got it for Christmas and only open the box to check it out. I'll have to look again.

thanks!!


----------



## jacobh

Hi guys just ordered one. Has anyone replaced the batteries yet? If so does it store all your info or do u have to resignation back in after changing batteries? Thanks


----------



## zwalls

cbowie said:


> I use the Sight Slicker from Alpine Products and it's absolutely perfect!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


thanks cbowie!


----------



## cbowie

...I haven't replaced my batteries yet but I keep a spare set and the allen wrench in pack, just in case. Yes it stores all of your settings. Although it's still not a bad idea to backup your data, everytime you do a firmware update. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## mnpublic

My girl wants one pretty bad. Just too dicey for me to trust on a hunt quite yet. Really interesting tech though.

Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk


----------



## jacobh

Thank u cbowie!!


----------



## cbowie

[emoji106]

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie

mnpublic said:


> My girl wants one pretty bad. Just too dicey for me to trust on a hunt quite yet. Really interesting tech though.
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk


Well...I know some of you will continue to have some doubts but you're only delaying pure joy!! I purchased my xero A1i around late May/early June and I've hunted with it hard all year. It is a phenomenal sight and tough as nails. I hunt exclusively public land and walk between 3-10 miles on all of my hunts. Sometimes, I have to take a kayak in because of random floods and I'm telling you, I've been harder on the sight than I wanted to be and it's as tough as any other sight I've owned in 25+ years of bowhunting. Sure, I like many others had mine freeze up once or twice before season but it was easy to restart by cycling the power button. 1 or 2 times out of 1000 shots, ain't bad. Nontheless, after updating the firmware, I haven't had an issue during season, practicing or hunting. 

Bottomline...this sight is incredible, seriously of the charts. It inspires confidence in your shooting and the hunt itself because ot it's capabilities and functionality.

Don't cheat yourself out of this game changing and joyful sight!!! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## jacobh

How’s this sight with ranging in low light?


----------



## cbowie

Never had a single issue. When I'm not hunting, I practice a lot with it very late in the evenings...it works flawlessly.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## jacobh

Thank u. I appreciate it. Was hunting tonight and it just crossed my mind. Thanks for all the help


----------



## cbowie

Ur welcome...anytime.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## zwalls

would it be recommended to check or update my sight before I start calibrating and sighting in?


----------



## cbowie

I would recommend starting off with the latest firmware. However, it wouldn't hurt you either way. I set my sight up early in the summer and have updated the firmware 3 or 4 times since. Don't let the firmware update scare you...it's very simple and fast. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## zwalls

cbowie said:


> I would recommend starting off with the latest firmware. However, it wouldn't hurt you either way. I set my sight up early in the summer and have updated the firmware 3 or 4 times since. Don't let the firmware update scare you...it's very simple and fast.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


cbowie.....thanks! you're awesome!


----------



## The Old Guy

jacobh said:


> How’s this sight with ranging in low light?


It is the best low light sight I have seen.


----------



## zwalls

anyone have any images of how you attached your cable and button?


----------



## bigbucks170




----------



## zwalls

bigbucks170 said:


> View attachment 6695077
> 
> View attachment 6695079
> 
> View attachment 6695081


thank you!


----------



## labyrinth888

ontarget7 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



sweet !
what is the inner diameter of the field of view ??

thanks ! 
as always great and precise , objective review !

are you still using it today for hunting or not !


----------



## ontarget7

labyrinth888 said:


> sweet !
> what is the inner diameter of the field of view ??
> 
> thanks !
> as always great and precise , objective review !
> 
> are you still using it today for hunting or not !


Inside dimension is 1 7/8”

Won’t be using it this year. I’ll be headed to Alaska this year and they are not allowed so I will be primarily focused on that hunt due to my work load this year. 

I still feel it’s the single best archery accessory to hit the market in quite some time. Just a really cool sight that really makes you more effective in the field. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## labyrinth888

thanks a lot !
i ll get one , soon or later ....
best luck for alaska !!!! 
enjoy ...


----------



## 2 labs

Awesome sight !


----------



## ehan69

I appreciate Garmin's props to all original model purchasers by not releasing Version 2.0 the very next year.


----------

