# 600 Spine for 45# recurve?



## Bowhunter57 (Dec 14, 2002)

I'm currently shooting a Fleetwood Knight recurve that's 66" and 41# @ my 28 1/2" draw.
My arrows are Beman ICS Bowhunter 500 carbon fletched with 5" 3 fletch @ 30".

To get good arrow flight, I'm having to use 200 grains of tip weight. Two 50 gr. internal tip weights threaded into the back of the insert and a 100 gr. field tip. I'm not happy with this set up for trajectory reasons. Plus, I think this shaft is too stiff, despite manufacturer's recommendations...which is subjective to their liability and the reason behind their chart recommendations.

*** I'm considering a 600 spine Gold Tip arrow, left at the full length of 32" and only use the 100 gr. field tip weight.
My reasoning behind this thought is:
A weaker spine would flex more, thus allowing better flight.
A longer shaft would flex more, thus allowing better flight.
A lighter tip weight would flatten the trajectory.
The added 2" of shaft weight wouldn't interfere with what I'm attempting to gain in better flight.

Does this make sense to anyone else?
Pure insanity? Over thought?

Bowhunter57


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## 3D Archery (May 19, 2016)

I use Gold Tip Traditional Xt's, 600 Spine, full length with a 145 grain point on my 48 pound recurve and they fly great. But mine is not cut to center and that is a big deal when using a weaker spine.


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## matt_gold (Apr 3, 2017)

I am soon going to receive a new 45# Mandarin Duck, which will be around 42 or 43 at my DL, and I plan to use predator 2040's, which have a .623 spine. I plan on using 100gr tips on them.


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## rhust (Oct 8, 2002)

I am using carbon Express 90's at 28.5 inches with 100 grain points out of a wf19 riser with Hoyt x tour limbs. 45 at my 27 inch draw. They fly perfectly, and have an 11% FOC.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

When you report good arrow flight with 200 grain points, how are you judging that? 

What happens when you shoot bare shafts? You have a good arrow setup when you can group two or three bare shafts and two or three fletched shafts in the same group from at least 20 yards. 

Try this link for a good description of the process...http://www.acsbows.com/bareshaftplaning.html


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## MadJD (Oct 25, 2017)

Bowhunter57 said:


> Does this make sense to anyone else?


Dropping spine, lower arrow weight with improvement to speed makes sense. Longer arrow can help with alignment depending on aim method too.

JD.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Last I checked GT 600s only come 30.5", which will still be a lot weaker.


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

I'm having a problem figuring out which change to make. A long bow I just bought is 40# @ 66". My draw length is 30" making the 40# draw weight slightly higher on the fingers. I tried full length XX75 1916 shafts which have glue in point of about 80g. They group well but group left. The spine on the 1916s is about 623. They seem to be stiff and a change seems to be in order. 
I can't find any information I can trust on long bow arrow selection. I'm not at all sure what changes i should make.
I'm considering Carbon Express Heritage 90 and Gold Tip Traditional 600 which are both stiffer than the Easton 1916 but allow the option of changing point weight. Is that my best option?
I'm not new to archery, I shoot compound and Oly recurve but Long Bows I haven't shot since Ike was president. It seems like the OP and I are having the same problem. 
Nick


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## TGbow (Jun 24, 2016)

I'm shooting Gold Tip 600s out of a 45 lb Samick Sage, I'm drawing 28 " so I'm getting the full 45 lbs.
BCYX low stretch string.
My shafts are 29 inches with 50 grain insert and 125 grain broadhead...total of 175 grains up front.
I could shoot 500s but I would have to load the front up with about 240 grains...are in that weight range.
IMO, the 600s should match your bow. You didn't mention what string material you're using but even with a low stretch string the 600s should fly good.
Full length shaft you should get away with 125 to 175 grain up front.


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

I have a short draw but I do have some 30" 600 spine victory arrows with <100g tip that came along with a junior compound bow package.

I have shoot those with my 45# 40# recurve....I don't see any weird arrow flight n because they are lighter than my usual 1916 aluminum arrows...I think they launch faster.


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## camperjim (Oct 22, 2016)

I have a couple of comments which might help turning for Nick, the OP or anyone else who encounters issues. 

First, you can easily verify this with tuning charts....it is easier to tune using arrow length rather than point weight. If you start with a shaft that is too stiff, you need to add a lot of point weight to make much difference. Instead an extra half or inch of shaft length will greatly tame down an overly stiff arrow. 

Second, before selecting a shaft, you really need to consider the arrow weight desired. I personally want a light, fast arrow with a flat trajectory. For a modern bow I want to be about 7 grains per pound of draw weight. For my vintage bows, I want to be at 8, 9, or even towards 10 gpp. Again, that is me, and how I shoot. I don't hunt so I do not want a hunting weight arrow. I don't gap so I don't want a heavy arrow to help close the gap at short distances. Anyway decide on an arrow weight, then pick the spine needed. 

Third, you absolutely need to consider the string material. Dacron will require a greatly reduced spine. A FF or other low stretch string will need a much stiffer spine. I have no idea why this happens. A Dacron string does not shoot all that much slower than FF, but on all of my bows the difference in spine is major. I think the Dacron absorbs some of the initial impact, but again I don't understand why the difference is so large. For example, I have a 45# @ 30.5" recurve that was made in the 90s but still requires Dacron. It shoots a well tuned 600 spine full length (32") arrow with 115 grains for the insert and point. I have a 36# @ 30.5" recurve and the same arrow is way too weak. The second bow has a D75 string. If I substitute a Dacron string, the 600 spine arrow is going to be way too stiff.

Finally, the arrow selection charts from Easton and others seem to apply only for a FF string. Even then they tend to push you to select overly stiff shafts. If you have a bow with a Dacron string, the charts will give you a very over spined arrow. For example if the chart recommends a 500 shaft, you may need a 600 or even a 700 spine.


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

camperjim said:


> I have a couple of comments which might help turning for Nick, the OP or anyone else who encounters issues.
> 
> First, you can easily verify this with tuning charts....it is easier to tune using arrow length rather than point weight. If you start with a shaft that is too stiff, you need to add a lot of point weight to make much difference. Instead an extra half or inch of shaft length will greatly tame down an overly stiff arrow.
> 
> ...


Thank you camperjim, good information for sure.
N


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Some here can attest that after you've been at this awhile?...you tend to accumulate quite the assortment of arrow shafting which in turn serves as quite the test kit when acquiring and tuning new to you bows.

The longer the arrow?...the tighter the gaps between your arrows point and the spot...which aids in accuracy despite whether you're consciously aware of such...or not.

For those reasons?...it's a rare instance that any CF shafting meets cut-off wheel at my house and only occurs occasionally when I run into those random situations where the correctly tuned dynamic spine exists somewhere between my vast selection of screw-in point weights which also have a way of mysteriously multiplying over the years.

I like my arrows like I like my limbs where I always "Go Long"...things just work out better for me that way.


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## Bowhunter57 (Dec 14, 2002)

Easykeeper said:


> When you report good arrow flight with 200 grain points, how are you judging that?


Easykeeper,
I'm judging it off of the arrow "fish tailing" in flight...bad with 125 gr. field tips only. I added one 50 gr. internal tip weight to the back of the insert and the flight improved, but the "fish tailing" was still enough of an issue that it caused broadhead flight to not be at the same P.O.I. as the field tips...of the same weight.

After adding two 50 gr. internal tip weights to the back of the insert and a 100 gr. field tip, the "fish tailing" stopped.

This is my hunting set up, for now. I will change it after the hunting seasons, in preparation for the 3D target shoots in the Spring.

Bowhunter57


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## mdrnsamurai (Oct 8, 2016)

I am using GT Traditional XT's (500) & Ultralight Pros (500) with 45# & 50# @28 both Arrows are uncut 32" & 31" and fly amazing with 100gr Accu Points and 4x4.5" Feathers.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Bowhunter57 said:


> Easykeeper,
> I'm judging it off of the arrow "fish tailing" in flight...bad with 125 gr. field tips only. I added one 50 gr. internal tip weight to the back of the insert and the flight improved, but the "fish tailing" was still enough of an issue that it caused broadhead flight to not be at the same P.O.I. as the field tips...of the same weight.
> 
> After adding two 50 gr. internal tip weights to the back of the insert and a 100 gr. field tip, the "fish tailing" stopped.
> ...


OK, gotcha. Visually clean flight is certainly better than visible wobble. Before you buy anything new though, strip the feathers off of a couple of arrows and try the tuning process in the link I posted earlier. 

This arrow calculator is another thing to try, with accurate inputs it should get you close but you will still want to tune with bare shafts...https://www.3riversarchery.com/dynamic-spine-arrow-calculator-from-3rivers-archery.html


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

I know that Keeper knows this. YOu don't have to strip off feathers. Shoot a broadhead and a field point use the same rules for tuning a bare shaft and a fletched shaft (broadhead being the bare).

IF you go to www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html and click on 'download printable version' you'll see the broadhead tuning towards the end.

I'm betting that if you use the above tuning method and a .600 you'll end up with a 200 grain head, which gives you a lot of broadhead options. If you have a 100 grain head your BH options are rotten. Screwing in a field point of 200 grains is a lot better than those internal weights. You'll be changing the weight of the adaptor ahead of the insert instead of behind.

Bowmania


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## Don_Parsons (Feb 9, 2018)

Tag


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I still find that bare shaft flight tells you about the bow/arrow combination.
Going under spined is not a cure-all. Neither is over spined.
I find the 3Rivers spine calculator is "OK" at best. It gets you close.
Stu Miller did the original. Since that one, he has a newer version that takes into account such things as centershot, string material, and bow efficiency. Even then I find that aluminum tune softer (weaker) than carbon even if he difference in centershot is included in the calculations.
Your grip and release will also add a variable to arrow flight that must be corrected by arrow length spine, weight per inch, and tip weight.


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## Don_Parsons (Feb 9, 2018)

I'm considering the same thing. I would rather accuracy over speed, and a few extra inches of arrow shafts are ok in my books. 

I like the Gold Tip shaft size chart on the Web. It's a ok place to start,,, of course it's up to us on what we want to get out of our arrows, speed, target penetration. 

Many of us know that we have an array of options to choose from. 

Field point tips of different weights. 
A selection of different weight in-serts. 
Shaft weight, Leigth, size/ diameter. 
Long and short fetchings of plastic or feathers that change speed, drag, and stability of arrow in fight.

Fetchings can some what change the flight of an arrow. 

Long distance folks like the four 2" feathers. 
Indoor 3D enjoy the three 4" or 5" feathers. 
Again, depends on the persons choosing of plastic of feathers, the arrow rest, shaft & tip. 

I like what was posted above,,, talk to folks, go see what they are using, and experiment a bit with different arrow combinations. 

My traditional archery friend up our way has 3 arrows combinations for each of his bows. 
This allows him to step into any compitition of in-door, out-door 3D,,, and the long range 70 to 90 yard long bow shooting. 

Always wise to team up with a older archer who has miles under his boots,,, they are willing to fast track anyone who asks. 

I'm getting schooled, and I pay close attention to what he says as well as what he leaves out. 
Mostly what he shares is the direction I'm heading. 

Learning school Western Canada Don, alway learn with blinders off!


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