# Pvc long bow??



## Tunaboy (Oct 3, 2004)

There is a guy on line who makes many types of PVC bows and walks you through the entire process. The bows are very impressive. I was thinking they would make a great bow to bow fish with. Cheap, durable and impervious to water. Google it, you will find him easy. Perfect for what you want to do. If you build one post a pic please.


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## Wolfpackhowl (Apr 22, 2012)

BackyardBowyer, he's got numerous tutorials on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_U6Yek0YgKHN_A-iTAwZbg


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## schnauza2000 (Dec 27, 2013)

I love watching BackyardBowyer, he comes up with some crazy stuff, and looks to have built about 1654981577 bows by this point. He may be the biggest consumer of PVC pipe in the entire state of Hawaii. If you give him enough PVC and a heat gun he could probably build you a house.


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## BluMeanie (May 5, 2014)

schnauza2000 said:


> I love watching BackyardBowyer, he comes up with some crazy stuff, and looks to have built about 1654981577 bows by this point. He may be the biggest consumer of PVC pipe in the entire state of Hawaii. If you give him enough PVC and a heat gun he could probably build you a house.


That's a pretty accurate (and funny!) summation of Nick. I believe he is living in Washington State now.

I have formed several PVC Bows; it is a material that is strangely enough, almost-ideally suited for self-bow making. I never would have thought to use it for them, prior to seeing Nick's work.


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## tarzan3307 (Aug 25, 2014)

My buddy hunts with his homemade PVC recurve and PVC crossbow. I'll try to get some pics of them this week and post em.


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## jpacer (Sep 18, 2014)

Those YouTube tutorials are great! Thanks for the link, hoping to kick off my own project before Christmas


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## Mastervolume11 (Jul 25, 2014)

I have just been getting into PVC Bows by Following 90% Nick the Backyard Bowyer's techniques, 5% other PVC Bow builders ideas and 5% my own input/ideas.

So far they have been awesome. You can see my work on the last couple pages of this thread. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1761366 

The first earlier ones aren't that great. But the second Horse Bow and Self Bow are awesome and all I use. at 25 yards my 2117 Easton arrows with 125 Grain Target Points consistently sink 4-5 inches deep into high density Foam. The only problems they have with performance is due to my inexperience. But when I can tell I do everything the same, the arrow hits almost the exact same spot with a huge Thump. So with consistent technique, they have a consistent shot.

That being said. I am new to Archery. So I owe it to myself to buy a real wood recurve and compare the performance. But there is no doubt with attention to detail and the proper tools, you could be a PVC bow that would kill anyone and anything in my area.

I highly recommend the DIY inclined People give it a shot. For me it has been well worth the effort with more to come. But I am definitely buying a mfg built recurve to compare the performance.

But there is no denying the satisfaction of making a fully functioning bow all by yourself.


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## fgignac (Aug 21, 2014)

I have also made several PVC bow based on Nick's designs. Mostly for friends who want inexpensive and durable bows for LARPing. This is a perfect bow for someone who wants to try archery without a major investment.


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## oldschoolcj5 (Jun 8, 2009)

need to build a few of these ... looks like great fun


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## Mastervolume11 (Jul 25, 2014)

Today I received several Bow Strings from 3 Rivers Archery for use with my PVC bows. I wanted to compare them in performance to the 550 Paracord I have been using. I have to say, if there is a difference, it's negligible. The strings are Dacron. Maybe that's not the best and I shouldn't expect a difference? Maybe someone can let me know. If there is a superior string I could be using, let me know.

I won't even bother to ask about which arrows to use, because I am clueless on that and can't find any consistent info to use to select the best arrow for a particular bow. Maybe there is no such thing, I don't know, but settling on an arrow is the hardest thing for me.

Below Bows are my 3rd and 4th PVC Bows.


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## bilongo (Nov 18, 2008)

I have done several for my relatives from 26# all the way to 52# and from 46" ATA to 56". The arrows that I used are goldtips 3555 or carbon express 4065 with a heavier point of 125 grain 4" feathers or vanes I preferred feathers right helicoil as much of 2 degrees offset. Caution words measure your draw length before cut the arrows. My arrows are cut to 29 1/4 and they flight straight and hitting hard at 30yds. Also I still using 550 cord for bowstring....
Hope this help....


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## fgignac (Aug 21, 2014)

Mastervolume11 said:


> Today I received several Bow Strings from 3 Rivers Archery for use with my PVC bows. I wanted to compare them in performance to the 550 Paracord I have been using. I have to say, if there is a difference, it's negligible. The strings are Dacron. Maybe that's not the best and I shouldn't expect a difference? Maybe someone can let me know. If there is a superior string I could be using, let me know.
> 
> I won't even bother to ask about which arrows to use, because I am clueless on that and can't find any consistent info to use to select the best arrow for a particular bow. Maybe there is no such thing, I don't know, but settling on an arrow is the hardest thing for me.
> 
> Below Bows are my 3rd and 4th PVC Bows.


You're probably not going to go any higher than Dacron on these bows. These bows work surprisingly well, for what they are. But the fact is that they are not particularly efficient. Dacron is quite "stretchy" and will soak up a lot of the residual energy. If you go for a higher performance string that energy will go back into the limbs instead and most likely cause the bow to fail. If you decide to keep using dacron strings you should look into buying a spool and twisting your own. A spool of dacron is probably less expensive than the three strigns you just bought and you will have enough to make dozens of strings.

Just some food for thought

Nice job on the bows. I have been meaning to make one like your second picture. I love how clean and simple the design is.


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## BluMeanie (May 5, 2014)

fgignac said:


> You're probably not going to go any higher than Dacron on these bows. These bows work surprisingly well, for what they are. But the fact is that they are not particularly efficient. Dacron is quite "stretchy" and will soak up a lot of the residual energy. If you go for a higher performance string that energy will go back into the limbs instead and most likely cause the bow to fail. If you decide to keep using dacron strings you should look into buying a spool and twisting your own. A spool of dacron is probably less expensive than the three strigns you just bought and you will have enough to make dozens of strings.
> 
> Just some food for thought
> 
> Nice job on the bows. I have been meaning to make one like your second picture. I love how clean and simple the design is.


I agree 100% on the string-making costs. I bought a 4# spool of B50 for ~$11, and combining that with a couple of $5 spools of serving thread, a serving tool, beeswax, and a 2x4 and some steel pegs or heavy nails - you can make endless-loop strings for not only PVC but wooden self-bows for a long dang time. I did NOT like using paracord - too stretchy, and Nylon never stops stretching, particularly when it gets hot.

Unless it has been damaged by UV-exposure, or is brittle due to sub-freezing temps, I do not see a catastrophic failure of PVC limbs. Yeah, they can fail - but other than those two ways of damaging the material, it is unlikely to shatter into a dozen sharp splinters like a wooden bow. Paint the bow with Fusions, don't leave it laying in the snow for an hour and then scoop it up and overdraw it - should be good. 

Nick has a video he made where he demonstrates an overdraw-failure of a bow, then heats it back up with his gun and forms it back into shape and shoots it again. I also experimented with one I made specifically to "break" - actually quite a small bow, so I could overdraw the CRAP out of it. I managed to break it in two, but it was a "gentle failure" - no shattering, no excitement.


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## fgignac (Aug 21, 2014)

@bluMeanie

I agree, I have never seen a PVC bow catastrophically fail. Each time is has happened to me they have just bent in two. It makes sense that PVC would stand up well to the extra vibrations fed into it by a high performance string metrial. On the other hand, I doubt that a high performance string would coax much more speed out of one of these bows.

I am curious to find out though. So if anyone makes a string out of 452x let me know how it works out :thumbs_up


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## Mastervolume11 (Jul 25, 2014)

So basically, the PVC isn't good enough to take advantage of a better string? I guess.

How would a higher quality Fast Flight String cause the PVC to fail?

In terms of the Paracord Stretching, I have noticed it stretches to a point, but that's it. In other words, on the self bow photoed above I used a 56" Paracord. It Stretched after attaching it, but stayed consistent after that. When I put on a 56" Dacron String, it didn't have that initial stretch. So I put on a 57" Dacron and it set the bow to the same brace height as the 56" Paracord. From there, they seemed to perform the same.

So is the consensus that Paracord is just as good as Dacron for PVC Bows, but for non-PVC Bows there may be a difference?

Thanks for any insight


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## fgignac (Aug 21, 2014)

"So basically, the PVC isn't good enough to take advantage of a better string?"

I don't think it is. What makes PVC bows most impressive is their performance and durability compared to their low cost and how easier they are to make. You doubt you will be able to find a bow with the same performance for the price of a PVC bow. This being said, when compared to more "traditional" bow materials, they just don't offer the same performance. I have compared mine to fiberglass and wood bows with roughly the same specs and there is no competition. This is because of efficiency. Efficiency is the % of energy stored in the limbs when the bow is drawn that is actually transferred to the arrow. So a bow with say 90% efficiency will shoot faster than a bow with 70% efficiency at the same draw weight/draw length. Fast Flight performs better than Dacron mostly because is has less stretch. Less energy is lost to elasticity in the string which helps increase the efficiency of the bow. However, PVC is inherently inefficient so I don't think that it would make a major difference.

That being said, this is my opinion based on my experience with the behavior of PVC bows. I don't really know because I have never tried a higher performance material than B50. If you happen to give it a try with Fast Flight I would be very interested to head about your results!


"How would a higher quality Fast Flight String cause the PVC to fail?"

Actually I have changed my position on that because BluMeanie made a good point. Let me explain. When you put a higher performance string on a bow, less energy is absorbed by the string, but that energy has to go somewhere part of it goes into the arrow, giving you an increase in speed, and the rest goes into the limbs of the bow. That is why using high performance strings on bows not designed for them is a bad idea. The limbs of the bow are simply not designed to absorb that much energy and it can cause them to fail.

However, as BluMeanie said, I don't think this would apply to PVC bows. PVC is extremely resilient and has a huge capacity to absorb vibrations without breaking. So a higher performance string will most likely not cause limbs to break. What you will end up with, though, is hand shock. Hand shock is what happens when lots of energy is fed back into a bow. It causes the whole to vibrate with every shot and can make shooting quite unpleasant. So you may end up finding that the increase in performance you get isn't worth the hand shock you are experiencing. The only way to tell is to give it a try :wink:



"So is the consensus that Paracord is just as good as Dacron for PVC Bows, but for non-PVC Bows there may be a difference?"

I'm sure that there is a difference, but it might be so slight that you need a chronograph to see it. Dacron definitely has better performance than Paracord but my feeling is that the PVC is absorbing most of the extra energy and not much of it is being transferred to the arrow. So you may find that, for you, paracord works just fine. I like to work with Dacron because of low cost and because the arrows nock onto it better. Also, most of the PVC bows I make are for people who are going to use them for medieval LARPing and flemish twist strings have more of an "old timey" look to them than paracord 

Hope than answers your questions. Keep them coming if you have any more. And let me know if you try out a fast flight string on one of your bows. I'm always interesting in learning things that could make my bows better :darkbeer:


Francis


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## Mastervolume11 (Jul 25, 2014)

fgignac said:


> "So basically, the PVC isn't good enough to take advantage of a better string?"
> 
> Francis


Hi Francis, Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I really appreciate it. I will definitely try some various string materials and post my results. I like the PVC, just because I like the DIY idea of it and it being cheap. But I am in no way married to it. Everyone's help is much appreciated. As simple as a bow and arrow seems, it's really an incredible science and it intrigues me more and more. So I will keep trying various materials and ideas and see what I get.

I really appreciate the supportive information.


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

Mastervolume11 said:


> Today I received several Bow Strings from 3 Rivers Archery for use with my PVC bows. I wanted to compare them in performance to the 550 Paracord I have been using. I have to say, if there is a difference, it's negligible. The strings are Dacron. Maybe that's not the best and I shouldn't expect a difference? Maybe someone can let me know. If there is a superior string I could be using, let me know.
> 
> I won't even bother to ask about which arrows to use, because I am clueless on that and can't find any consistent info to use to select the best arrow for a particular bow. Maybe there is no such thing, I don't know, but settling on an arrow is the hardest thing for me.
> 
> Below Bows are my 3rd and 4th PVC Bows.


What's the draw weight of the horse bow? That's cool looking.


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## fgignac (Aug 21, 2014)

My pleasure. You will learn a lot playing around with these and it will make you a better archer in the long run


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## Mastervolume11 (Jul 25, 2014)

handirifle said:


> What's the draw weight of the horse bow? That's cool looking.


Thanks for the compliment. It's 35# at 28". I put a lot of time into the cosmetics of that one. I had the rough shape and a shootable bow after only a couple hours of work (if even that) the vast majority of time was spent on the painting and the wrapping of the suede. It's all one solid piece of 3/4" PVC. I haven't tried using wooden Siyahs, but I plan to.

The second bow is about 48# at 28" and is one piece of 1" PVC. Much easier. If you don't care about cosmetics, painting or wrapping the handle, etc. You can make one of those in less than an hour. Well, that is after you make the jigs to flatten it.


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## handirifle (Jun 9, 2005)

On the second bow, are those tips tapered? They look like they were flattened AND tapered. How is that possible, without trimming the ends?


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## Mastervolume11 (Jul 25, 2014)

Yes, the ends are tapered, but not trimmed from the edges. 

Search Youtube for 80lb PVC and Nick will show you the technique.

Here's the link to the first steps. The Tips and Knocks might be in Part 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrKqV9reA1M 


But basically, from tip of the bow, you cut a "V" into it, which maintains the outside edges. Then you reheat and press them together. You can then either wrap the seam, or cover it in heatshrink. What it does is maintain the strength of the PVC. If you have a Band Saw it would be best. It's crucial to cut straight and even, so when you heat and close the "V" everything is even with no gaps. 

On the second photo, you can see I cut the "Vees" to the depth where the full edge width returns. When reheating it, that is the tricky part. Do it very, very slow and a little at a time, otherwise it puffs back up and messes everything up.

The unpainted and wrapped Horsebow is the last photo. It was 100% functional at this point.


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