# Jaguar/Sage/Hoyt



## Coolguy_zane (Jun 4, 2010)

Ha I was just in this situation last week however I didn't get a chance to shoot any recurves before I bought the Sage. I'm almost 21 and athletic/average build with no previous archery experience. The sage looks and feels really nice the only thing that wasn't perfect out of the box was a slight nick on the top of the limb screw like some may have grabbed it from a pile of screws but other than that the bow is really nice for 120. 

My problem wasn't from anything as far as bow defects are concerned, I'm just not physically strong enough to pull a 40lb. @ 28" when my draw is about 30" and have a steady and easy shot. I pull and reach anchor but my bow arm is unsteady and it is physically hard to hold that strong for more than 15 seconds. I just bought the 30 lb. limbs from tradtecharchery.com and they should arrive next week if you want to hold out and give you a comparison difference in the weight and ability to shoot it. Also you can check the thread I made earlier about being overbowed and see what the other guys said about my deal thread - "so disappointed right now."

Another bow that you may want to look at as far as price ranges go that I found earlier while looking around is the PSE Razorback, didn't read any reviews but its $99 so its another cheap alternative, also a recurve.


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## chief 53 (Nov 23, 2007)

With out a doubt, buy the Hoyt.


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## Leafwalker (Oct 7, 2008)

I've got a target bow from Samick and it's an excellent shooter! The limbs are well finished and smooth to draw. I've read a lot of good reviews on the Sage, and I don't think you'd be disappointed with one.

I've owned a Martin Hunter and it was a fantastic bow, but I've never owned the Jaguar. I'm with you - I've read a lot of negative comments about the bow from limbs twisting/bending to having to sand the limbs to get them to fit on the bow. Sure, it happens with some bows, but I've seen a lot of comments like this with the Jag.

I've also got a Hoyt Dorado and it's an awesome bow. Smooth to draw, dead in hand, but can be a little bit of a pain to tune and quiet down. I've seen them used on this site for around $350 or $375.

At your archery lesson, bring up the same question to your instructor and see what they have to say. Also see if there are any clubs in your area. The more bows you get your hands on, the more you'll find the one (or ten) for you. Your first bow won't be your last bow, so I wouldn't look for top of the line right now. Look how many bows I've already mentioned and I'm currently working on piecing together another one!


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I have a Dorado and while it is a nice bow I don't think it is the one to start with. I'd say go with the Samick Sage. Get a 30#'er, learn to shoot, then work your way up. Nothing wrong with a Dorado mind you, but they are expensive $450+ new and have a proprietary limb mounting system. If you want to step up from the Sage, then the Hoyt Excell with an ILF limb system is more versatile and can be a little less expensive with cheaper limbs.


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

*How do you know what poundage bow?*

I am also just trying to get started
How do you know what you can pull back and shoot comfortably?
I was told to get my first bow at 45-50 pounds 58"-60" based on my physical characteristics and stength level but have never shot any yet to confirm this.


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## JhoneilC (Aug 30, 2007)

I would also look at the Hoyt Excel riser and Samick Candidate limbs. That should be less than $300


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## Jamesw (Sep 14, 2007)

For the first one I would go with the Samick.Limbs and cost are cheaper than the Hoyt and it will be a good learning bow.I would not waste money on the Jaguer.Hoyts are great but cost too much for a first bow.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Air - 



airwolf said:


> I was told to get my first bow at 45-50 pounds 58"-60" based on my physical characteristics and stength level but have never shot any yet to confirm this.


You may wish to revise that 

Viper1 out.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

airwolf said:


> I am also just trying to get started
> How do you know what you can pull back and shoot comfortably?
> I was told to get my first bow at 45-50 pounds 58"-60" based on my physical characteristics and stength level but have never shot any yet to confirm this.


There is a lot of conflicting advice about bows. Hunters often want to buy their first bow at a legal hunting weight right off the bat, and they often prefer shorter bows for convenience in the field--especially if they are coming from compound where the bows are really short. Hunting oriented archery shops will often reccomend such tactics. And it works for some people just fine. Others get frustrated or injured by starting with too heavy a bow and give up archery. 

Target shooters generally go for longer bows for smoother draws and more stability. And most instructors try to set up their students with *light* bows to start, so they can really concentrate on form. I'd say a longer, lighter bow is the better learning tool.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Longer, Lighter and get Viper's book. Or get the book first, it will set you on the right path.


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## Jack NZ (Apr 7, 2006)

I shoot a Dorado myself,but I'd recommend the Sage.
Three main reasons,It's the longest an at 6 foot or over your going to want that,,,,it's "value" for money,,,as it's your first bow, your probably not going to own it long anyway.
I've never heard of any issues with the Sage,but I guess every manufacture has it's mondays.
BTW,,, if you really like the look of the jag riser,you can fit Sage limbs to it.
Supposed to be smoother drawing and way more reliable.

Good luck either way.


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## warped Arrow (Sep 20, 2005)

If you like he Jaguar, get it, a set of adapter plates, and an inexspensive set of ILF limbs, G2G!!

Set you back a total of maybe $250.00.


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## Navmaxlp (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow, thanks everyone for the input. I think I'm going to go with the Sage. It's not too expensive and I can move up with new limbs. Once I decide I like this, the Hoyt might be something worth picking up. For now though, I think the Sage should do. Thanks again and may I say, this forum is really great. Tons of info and so many people willing to help. Very good to know I can get some help if needed as I'm starting out with archery.


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## Navmaxlp (Jun 3, 2010)

Well, the lesson didn't really turn out to be a lesson after all. Basically, it was a girl half my age who handed me a bow, an armguard and a few arrows and took me out to a place where they had some targets and 3d targets and told me to shoot at them. All she really did was say "you've got good form" and "you're doing really well". I knew I was in trouble when she handed me a 30# bow and had me shoot the first target. When the arrow went through the hay bail, she said, "well maybe we should go to the 35# bow". Now, I'm obviously no expert but if she didn't want the arrows to go through the hay, wouldn't she have me go to a lighter bow? Another slight mishap was, she neglected to give me any finger protection. I didn't even think about it as I started shooting but after about half an hour, my fingers started really hurting. I tried to suck it up and kept going but after another 15 minuted, they started bleeding and it wasn't fun anymore.

After all that, my enthusiasm hasn't lessened and I went to a store nearby today. I went in thinking about the Sage but, they don't have them and don't order them for some reason. I was suspicious at first that they may be trying to up-sell a bit but the bow they suggested was actually less than the Sage. He recommended the Greatree Mohegan which was nice but after looking a bit more, I think the Firefox looks nicer with it's black limbs as opposed to the white. It comes in 30# at 66". Thoughts of previous threads I've read came to mind. Longer is better and go light were the main themes. I was quite excited until he called the company and they told him they wouldn't be able to ship for another month or so. I'm hesitant to buy online since I wouldn't be able to pick out problems with the bow myself and he mentioned he'd check it out before he let me pay for it so, I told him I'd wait and bought a glove, an armguard and a stringer. I left a little disappointed but figured the time would be good for me to research the bow a bit and find out if it was worth the $110.

So, all that being said, any thoughts on the Greatree Firefox? It's $110 and they said they'd set it up for me and help me pick out some arrows. It's the only one I've seen that comes in the longer lengths as a take down. I like the look (the main reason for the firefox over the mohegan) and it's wood which is preferable to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Spend 17.95 on Vipers book.......It's available at Amazon.com. It will get you started on the right track and probably save you some money in the long run.


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## HOYTLVR (Feb 16, 2007)

centershot said:


> Spend 17.95 on Vipers book.......It's available at Amazon.com. It will get you started on the right track and probably save you some money in the long run.


Can you tell me the name of this book


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Shooting the Stickbow - excellent resource for new archers.


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

centershot said:


> Shooting the Stickbow - excellent resource for new archers.


is it worth getting? i may need to buy this book for myself, how extensive is the book?


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## BigCnyn (Nov 5, 2008)

*Viper's Book*

Worth every dollar, 
Underrated and under Appreciated..


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## psedude (Mar 28, 2007)

*vipers book*

get the book very extensive & a good read, will set u on right path. i did everything wrong for 5 years. i read the book and am breaking bad habits & shooting better, finally. you will enjoy the book! good luck!


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## Appalachia (Nov 23, 2009)

NAVMAXLP, wher are you located?? if I mite ask.


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## Navmaxlp (Jun 3, 2010)

Frederick, Maryland. About an hour north of Washington DC.


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## mtbndan (Feb 11, 2010)

As a Jaguar owner with no issue's so far but with all these negative post it made me check mine out in detail! Mine seems to be good quality wise, bought it around Mar 10 so not sure if different batches were built crappy. Anywho, it's a great bow! Happy Shooting!


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## Mrfipp (Apr 9, 2010)

I started with a 66" Greatree Mohegan at 32 lbs draw. I'm an athletic 175lbs. I can shoot the 32lb draw for a long time before fatigue kicks in. I definitely agree with the longer bow, lighter draw approach. 

I also own "Shooting the Stickbow." It's a very worthwhile book. I think I paid $20-25. You would be better to buy a cheap bow and the book than a $500 bow.


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## Survivalist (Jul 13, 2010)

mtbndan said:


> As a Jaguar owner with no issue's so far but with all these negative post it made me check mine out in detail! Mine seems to be good quality wise, bought it around Mar 10 so not sure if different batches were built crappy. Anywho, it's a great bow! Happy Shooting!


Although I'm not sure where your bow came from, I know the jags had a couple different manufacturers. Although they are an American company (Martin) they had such a huge order to fill, before the bow even release, the first few were made in house and distributed to select buyers throughout. I'm guessing it depended on who pre-ordered first. The next batch was outsourced from I can't remember where, somewhere overseas. And I'm sorry to say this, but the anticipation for the limbs seemed to be much stronger on the second batch. Whether that makes them stronger is unsure, but all the research I did said they would be made a little more reliable. And whether they were going to keep outsourcing was unclear in my finds, as was how many orders they (the European manufacturers) filled. The risers were made here, and from what I've heard are not the issue.

I am also in the market for a new beginner bow. And this is my opinion, whether you want to take it from an unexpirienced archer or not. I have been lookin at all these bows you have listed. With the exception of the dorado. My eye has been on the Hoyt gamemaster 2. Which is somewhat close...

But of you decide to buy the sage or jag I would suggest buying from some company that offers an insurence policy of some kind. That's what I plan to do. Even if it's half a year, I would think 6 months of practice shooting with a $140 that eventually breaks is well paid for expirience.

Get into a club. That's what I did. You'll get some free lessons and tips, whether you realize it or not. A paid trainer is only going to say what he/she has to say to get you in another session (there are exceptions ofcorse). Make friends, earn trust. Then you'll be able to test out as many bows as you can. And you'll find the how that suits you. Even if it's a $600 bow. If it fits you perfectly and make you happy, does it matter? It's your personal bow.

Hope my advice has helped in some way. I've been reading ALOT and this is actually my first post. I plan on buying vipers book also, it seems to help everyone who lays eyes on it. And hope maybe thAt magical genious might comment on my advice  hah.


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## Navmaxlp (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks again for all the info and help. I did go out and join a local club (Tuscarora Archers). They've been really great so far. Unfortunately, I haven't received my bow yet. Once I do, I'll be out there putting a bunch of arrows down range. As one member told me, I'll get to know the 20 yard target very well over the next year or so. The club is very active and, it seems like I'll get a lot of advice if I need it. They're mostly compound shooters so, I'll have to seek out some of the trad guys but, I'm told, they're there and really helpfull. Can't wait to get out there.


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## Navmaxlp (Jun 3, 2010)

Well, after all that, I ended up with none of the above. I had ordered the Greatree Firefox and was waiting for it to come in. It was supposed to be here by this week. Called the shop today and found out Greatree made a mistake and it wouldn't be available until mid to late August. I was about to call it all off when the salesman said he had another bow in stock and it was very similar to what I had ordered. 32#@28 64" OMP Explorer. I googled it up really quick and although there wasn't much info on the bow, I told him to hold it for me. I've been waiting too long and figure, if it craps out on me, there's always the warranty and the store is reputable and friendly. I went to pick it up and was pleased with the looks of it. It was definitely better looking IMO than the Firefox. I took it upstairs and shot a bunch of arrows to figure out the best one for the bow and I believe we ended up deciding on 1916s. Unfortunately, they didn't have any left in stock. Apparently sales are up this month. He told me they'd have a lot more arrows in next week for me. This is fine as I'll be out of town this weekend anyway and won't have an opportunity to play with it. Anyone have any experience with the OMP Explorer? I checked for threads on it but, didn't find much. I'm sure it's like most other imports (cheap and good to start out with). After I get some experience, I plan on moving up to a custom bow but, for the time being, this is what I'll be using. So, thanks everyone for the help. All the information has been great.


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## bearauto11 (Apr 7, 2010)

I shoot an OMP Blue Ridge Hunter and my 8 year old shoots an OMP Adventurer. So, I'm sorry, but I have no experience with the Explorer. I also am not an expert and have very little to compare to, but I feel both OMP bows are very well made. We've been real happy. I keep looking at all the high dollar bows that everyone shows off and drool real bad. But for a beginning bow that we are goofing off with, learning with, and having fun with. I think the OMP's were good investments.
I also wonder if you wouldn't be happier with an even lower spine arrow like an 1816 or 1716. 
Again, though, I'm not even close to an expert (just started this stuff in April). So take everything I say with that knowledge.
Hope it's helpful.
--Tom


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I shot a Samick Sage the other day, it belonged to one of my brother's freinds.
I dont know why they call this bow a starter bow?????? I was really impressed with this bow. It shoots better than a lot of custom bows I've owned or shot. Cosmeticly it's not as fancy, but I'm over the cosmetic appeal when it comes to bows.


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## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

Curve1 said:


> I shot a Samick Sage the other day, it belonged to one of my brother's freinds.
> I dont know why they call this bow a starter bow?????? I was really impressed with this bow. It shoots better than a lot of custom bows I've owned or shot. Cosmeticly it's not as fancy, but I'm over the cosmetic appeal when it comes to bows.


I ordered a 30# Sage on Tuesday from Lancaster. Hopefully, it will be here today. I can't wait to see what all the fuss is about. :darkbeer:


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Twoblade, everyone has their own likes and dis-likes, I dont claim to be an expert but I'm a recovering bowaholic..........I've had a few. In my opnion the price of the Sage in no way reflects the quality of the bow [maybe only cosmeticly]. As far as shootability I was impressed, and it is set up for a rest/plunger, and a stabilizer. More companies should offer those features on wood riser bows.
The Sage is like the Quinn Stallion. it's worth far more than the price of the bow.....a good buy at any price. If the only two bows I owned were a Sage and a Quinn I'd be satisfied. Come to think of it I dont own *1* right now!
I'm shooting my son's Wes Wallace.


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## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

I have read nothing but positives about the Sage. I also ordered a target sight for it. I do like the fact that it's 62" and it comes in such a light weight. I am sure that I will like because I really ain't that hard to please. :darkbeer:


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Two Blade said:


> I have read nothing but positives about the Sage. I also ordered a *target sight *for it. I do like the fact that it's 62" and it comes in such a light weight. I am sure that I will like because I really ain't that hard to please. :darkbeer:




UH OH! The trad police will frown on that.:mg:
Only kidding ....I cant help but laugh when I hear folks say "using a sight aint trad". When I started hunting with a recurve in the mid 70's the majority of hunters shot off a rest and a lot of them used a sight.
Sorry Two Blade......it's one of my pet peaves when it comes to using a sight nowadays, a lot of guys dont know any better I geuss.
My son mentioned putting a sight on his Wes Wallace recurve and then he mentioned " they wont let me compete in a tournament if I use a sight". I told him I wouldn't worry about it. My opinion is....if it is a longbow or recurve, that's all that matters as far as a *traditional* shoot goes.

Sorry, I got on a soap-box.


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