# New Rules for 2017 ASA or just proposed rules?



## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

While cruising facebook and watching the excellent Bowjunky videos, I saw a post on arcHER a post about 2017 ASA rules. New Known Pro class, new entry fees for Known 50 and Open A, and a new Hunter Elite class. One item that caught my attention was the 280 fps being set to all classes...with a question mark beside it.

So are some of these set or some still under consideration? I saw a few more with question marks, but this one caught my eye in particular.


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

I was just bummed they are taking the hyena...I liked it lol

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## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

There was a LOT of chatter about making it so you could score the upper twelve without calling it first, at Phenix City. Wishful thinking, I'm sure.


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## 3dwife (Jul 28, 2016)

why are all the dates for 2017 4 days not 3, additional day for what reason anyone know?


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

3dwife said:


> why are all the dates for 2017 4 days not 3, additional day for what reason anyone know?


Just guessing here but I'm saying the pro classes are shooting Friday and Saturday all year with shootdown on Saturdays.


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## blackheel (Jan 5, 2011)

Saw the arcHER post. Not sure what is still under consideration, maybe just the stuff with the question marks? In Bowjunky's interview with Mike Tyrell, he talked quite a bit about the Known Pro and that is a go for 2017. Seems like most of the other stuff on the sheet in the pic without the question marks are going to happen. They are already circulating a picture of the lynx.

The ASA homepage has 4 days for each shoot, the pic that arcHER had only showed 3 days for each shoot. For instance Foley showed Feb 17-19 on the arcHER post and the web page showed 16-19th. Not sure the difference.


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that it is going to 280. I was told by a friend who was in attendance of that meeting that Nathan Brooks spoke for the pros by saying they were behind Mike's decision to move to 280.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

290...280...not that big of difference.
Upping the entry fee for the non-pro classes too.
Known classes are growing and that helped bring about super senior known classes.


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

carlosii said:


> 290...280...not that big of difference.
> Upping the entry fee for the non-pro classes too.
> Known classes are growing and that helped bring about super senior known classes.


Sweet now I can get away from all those youngsters in Senior Known and get beat by really good shooters.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

vito9999 said:


> Sweet now I can get away from all those youngsters in Senior Known and get beat by really good shooters.


You got it! :cheers:


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## 3dwife (Jul 28, 2016)

spoke with ASA, pro's will be shooting first 3 tournaments and classic on Friday, Saturday with shootdown on Saturday. other shoots will be the normal Saturday, Sunday for the pro's.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Amateurs fees increasing $10. Open A and K50 = $75
Unlimited class being discontinued. New Hunter Elite class, 40 yard unknown distance, movable sight, 12" stabber. 
Senior Women - all known distance.
Adding Women's Traditional class.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

derwet said:


> I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that it is going to 280. I was told by a friend who was in attendance of that meeting that Nathan Brooks spoke for the pros by saying they were behind Mike's decision to move to 280.


It was Brandon Reyes speaking for the pros. 280 fps is a done deal. I was in the meeting.
Target changes are a done deal.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Are they falling back to 280 fps to try and reduce target damage? I seriously doubt it will work. Because many folks will simply shoot heavier arrows and slightly less draw weight to shed 10 fps. A heavier arrow traveling a bit slower may actually penetrate more! I know it can't be for "safety" reasons. 

Gold Tip should benefit most because they do not make a 23 or fatter light weight shaft. A LOT of top 3d'ers had moved to fatter and lighter gpi shafts with more tip weight. As far as shaft weight is concerned Gold Tip doesn't have a fatter shaft that competes with Carbon Express X-Jammers and Line Jammers or Eastons Full Bore and Drives or Black Eagles lighter GPI shafts. With a 285 fps speed limit you can put more tip weight in the heavier shafts. However, you can't put but so much tip weight in the softer spined lighter gpi shafts........ So the slower speed limit will put the heavier Gold Tip fat shafts back in the game. Maybe THAT is the reason for reverting back to the old days..........

Note: A speed reduction in no way negatively effect me personally! Having a 26" draw limits my ability to get a decent weight arrow flying at more than about 280-285 fps. My go to 3D arrow for the last 3 years has been a 340 grain carbon Express Line Jammer with 130 grains up front traveling at _265 _fps. Of course for a known distance class my 265 fps is _not _much of a disadvantage if any.


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## wv hoyt man (Feb 17, 2012)

sagecreek said:


> It was Brandon Reyes speaking for the pros. 280 fps is a done deal. I was in the meeting.
> Target changes are a done deal.


What are the target changes?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Grazing deer, Hyena, and Impala gone.

New - Lynx, Large Alert NatraLook Deer, and Warthog


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)




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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

sagecreek said:


>


Just what I was hoping for...another small target that they can put out there at max distance.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Thay lynx looks cheap...like a bass pro 3d target

Mybe its just the pic


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## 5ringking (May 25, 2005)

Welcome to the NEW world of Delta/McKenzie. ... as the time's change so does the quality... before long the whole target will be plastic and just the replacement core will be foam


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

New hunter class with moveable sight can you use a lens


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I think it looks like Jim Carey in the Grinch that Stole Christmas

Delta is killing the McKenzie Line


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Thay lynx looks cheap...like a bass pro 3d target
> 
> Mybe its just the pic


You mean like these?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

It could be worse! lain:


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## ondavirg (May 15, 2004)

Lynx is bigger than the coyote and javelina. It's not as small as you would think.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

sagecreek said:


> You mean like these?





sagecreek said:


> It could be worse! lain:


 Lmao!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


>



Note to self: Call the upper 12! There is very little wiggle room under the 10 ring.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> It could be worse! lain:


*** is that bottom pic supposed to be? A chupacobra? Good Lord that's scary!


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> Note to self: Call the upper 12! There is very little wiggle room under the 10 ring.


Agreed, but it's still better than the hyena. It was 5 or miss all day long! I hated that target!


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> Are they falling back to 280 fps to try and reduce target damage? I seriously doubt it will work. Because many folks will simply shoot heavier arrows and slightly less draw weight to shed 10 fps. A heavier arrow traveling a bit slower may actually penetrate more! I know it can't be for "safety" reasons.
> 
> Gold Tip should benefit most because they do not make a 23 or fatter light weight shaft. A LOT of top 3d'ers had moved to fatter and lighter gpi shafts with more tip weight. As far as shaft weight is concerned Gold Tip doesn't have a fatter shaft that competes with Carbon Express X-Jammers and Line Jammers or Eastons Full Bore and Drives or Black Eagles lighter GPI shafts. With a 285 fps speed limit you can put more tip weight in the heavier shafts. However, you can't put but so much tip weight in the softer spined lighter gpi shafts........ So the slower speed limit will put the heavier Gold Tip fat shafts back in the game. Maybe THAT is the reason for reverting back to the old days..........
> 
> Note: A speed reduction in no way negatively effect me personally! Having a 26" draw limits my ability to get a decent weight arrow flying at more than about 280-285 fps. My go to 3D arrow for the last 3 years has been a 340 grain carbon Express Line Jammer with 130 grains up front traveling at _265 _fps. Of course for a known distance class my 265 fps is _not _much of a disadvantage if any.


Interesting thought there, I hadn't thought about that, but did seem odd to jump up in speed for awhile, then come back down. I'd love to hear the ASA's justification as well.

I'm in the same boat as you, but I was able to get to 296 with Pro 22's to keep a heavy point weight. Looks like I'll be dusting off the X-Cutters with 150 gr points again. I shot them well at 282, so here we go again!


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

The Hunter Elite class may be a thought since my old eyes can't see 50 yards anymore. I dropped back from Open A to Known 45 when they made Open A a 50 yard class...now I may have to converse with Mike about the new 40 yard unknown class.

I wonder if it has to be a moveable "hunting" sight like a HHA or MGB, or any old slider will be allowed? I would assume a lens will be allowed since they already allow a lens in the Hunter and Limited classes.


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

rattlinman said:


> The Hunter Elite class may be a thought since my old eyes can't see 50 yards anymore. I dropped back from Open A to Known 45 when they made Open A a 50 yard class...now I may have to converse with Mike about the new 40 yard unknown class.
> 
> I wonder if it has to be a moveable "hunting" sight like a HHA or MGB, or any old slider will be allowed? I would assume a lens will be allowed since they already allow a lens in the Hunter and Limited classes.


Sounds like it maybe be a very fun class


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Having been at the meeting I will say it was interesting. Some of which has been mentioned is going to happen (K50 pro) some is still up for decision. 

I did make a motion to do away with half known, half unknown in the open classes. Go with what ive said for a few years

K40, U40 (open c)
K45, U45 (open b)
K50, U50 (open a)

Semi pro
Open pro
K50 pro

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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Garceau said:


> Having been at the meeting I will say it was interesting. Some of which has been mentioned is going to happen (K50 pro) some is still up for decision.
> 
> I did make a motion to do away with half known, half unknown in the open classes. Go with what ive said for a few years
> 
> ...


How did that go.over?


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

rattlinman said:


> The Hunter Elite class may be a thought since my old eyes can't see 50 yards anymore. I dropped back from Open A to Known 45 when they made Open A a 50 yard class...now I may have to converse with Mike about the new 40 yard unknown class.
> 
> I wonder if it has to be a moveable "hunting" sight like a HHA or MGB, or any old slider will be allowed? I would assume a lens will be allowed since they already allow a lens in the Hunter and Limited classes.


 From the way the state director said it has to be marketed as a hunting sight....no dovetail. Straight mount to riser.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

BowHuntnKY said:


> How did that go.over?


Not bad. Could happen. Definitely on the table.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Went over very well......I suspect it has a great chance. 

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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

BowHuntnKY said:


> From the way the state director said it has to be marketed as a hunting sight....no dovetail. Straight mount to riser.


I didn't hear it that way. 

I think this is an,area that will need a lot of discussion yet at Mike's level. I wouldn't get to invested in it yet. 

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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

BowHuntnKY said:


> From the way the state director said it has to be marketed as a hunting sight....no dovetail. Straight mount to riser.


As is should be. The "Hunter" classes have drifted away from the traditional hunting setups. The guys who actually bring their hunting bows are at a terrible disadvantage, and I'm talking from experience as I too used every tournament implement I could while in the Hunter class.



Garceau said:


> I didn't hear it that way.
> 
> I think this is an,area that will need a lot of discussion yet at Mike's level. I wouldn't get to invested in it yet.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


On that side of it, Mike is going to have a hard time drawing a hard line between what's considered a "hunting" sight vs a "target" sight.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

rattlinman said:


> ...
> 
> On that side of it, Mike is going to have a hard time drawing a hard line between what's considered a "hunting" sight vs a "target" sight.


In my circuit, we let you use anything, as long as it doesn't have a vertical lead screw in it. IE, Tek Target OK, but not the Vertex.

I actually hunt with my Tek Target


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

sagecreek said:


> Not bad. Could happen. Definitely on the table.





Garceau said:


> Went over very well......I suspect it has a great chance.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



Good deal!


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

Need to ban pin nocks if they are concerned about arrow safety.


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## 12sonly (Jan 6, 2007)

Rears slide sight not a done deal. Nothing is official except speed rule.


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## Tincup61 (Oct 9, 2012)

I heard that the lynx that was there was just a prototype. The actual target will look somewhat different and have standard 10 and 12 rings


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## snoopy84 (Nov 5, 2014)

Wish that the new hunter class would be known instead of unknown..JMO....


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

snoopy84 said:


> Wish that the new hunter class would be known instead of unknown..JMO....


I'm just the opposite and think all unknown is the right way to go for an Elite Hunter class. Hunter is 40 yards with half known and half unknown. K45 is all known distance. Hunter is a very competitive class and the "next" level should rightfully be an all known or all unknown longer distance class.

I think having Bow Novice half and half would be better for the ASA game. The class has a 30 yard max so even a poor yardage estimate will still put your arrow in the target. What it would do is properly expose people to the game so they can grow out of being _novice_ more prepared for the next level. I also think Open C, also a _novice _class, should be half and half rather than all known. While Open B should be all unknown. As it is when guys come out of of Open C that have had little or no exposure to judging yardage just like Bow Novice guys. 

I am a Known distance 3D'er so I am NOT trying to choke out Known distance 3D. What I suggest (Open C, Open B and Bow Novice adjustments) would only broaden the field without adding more classes. I have a buddy that I expect will have grown out of Bow Novice by next spring after a single year of archery experience and a single season of ASA tournaments. I have recommended to him that he NOT simply move to _another _novice class (Open C) but rather either go to Hunter, Open B or K45. I know that it's a big jump up to those classes BUT as it is those are the only reasonable non-novice class options. He would go from a very short yardage all known distance class to a much longer distance and highly competitive open class (K45) or a competitive longer distance half and half class. Fortunately he has developed judging and shooting skills quickly and will do fine in a longer half and half class. But I can see where many guys will hang back and shoot the novice classes for possibly years.


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> Are they falling back to 280 fps to try and reduce target damage? I seriously doubt it will work. Because many folks will simply shoot heavier arrows and slightly less draw weight to shed 10 fps. A heavier arrow traveling a bit slower may actually penetrate more! I know it can't be for "safety" reasons.
> 
> Gold Tip should benefit most because they do not make a 23 or fatter light weight shaft. A LOT of top 3d'ers had moved to fatter and lighter gpi shafts with more tip weight. As far as shaft weight is concerned Gold Tip doesn't have a fatter shaft that competes with Carbon Express X-Jammers and Line Jammers or Eastons Full Bore and Drives or Black Eagles lighter GPI shafts. With a 285 fps speed limit you can put more tip weight in the heavier shafts. However, you can't put but so much tip weight in the softer spined lighter gpi shafts........ So the slower speed limit will put the heavier Gold Tip fat shafts back in the game. Maybe THAT is the reason for reverting back to the old days..........
> 
> Note: A speed reduction in no way negatively effect me personally! Having a 26" draw limits my ability to get a decent weight arrow flying at more than about 280-285 fps. My go to 3D arrow for the last 3 years has been a 340 grain carbon Express Line Jammer with 130 grains up front traveling at _265 _fps. Of course for a known distance class my 265 fps is _not _much of a disadvantage if any.


Admit it Kent. The pro's had their input. Most are getting older and figure to drop some weight---draw weight, too. LOL.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bfisher said:


> Admit it Kent. The pro's had their input. Most are getting older and figure to drop some weight---draw weight, too. LOL.



There is ONLY one company that doesn't make a lighter weight fat shaft. :zip:

BUT that may not have anything to do with it! I know some of the less than long draw guys are very happy to see a reduced speed limit so they can use more tip weight to reduce glance outs. I shoot a slow arrow in a known distance class so it doesn't effect me either way!


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

I think just making them all known or all unknown is how to go....me personally would feel better being beat out on 40 unknown targets and my judging ability....rather then beat out by, say 2 points by someone thay shot really good on there known day and poorly as well on there unknown side...

If were gonna judge lets judge them all.

This is why i think then proposed idea kevin posted seems best for both worlds. 

I have never judge targets in my short 3 year 3D career. Im not young or new...just late to the 3D game. (Even hunting for that matter) ive utlized a range finder since day one... and my judging skill are terrible

And honestly would love to judge but dont want to go to B as id rather not do half and half...and A is way out of my league. Id like to have a 40yd all unknown class.

I plan of shooting K45 next year but if a 40yd unknown open class pops up id be all.over it.


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## Repair Man (Sep 13, 2014)

Is there any truth to the rumor about the 14 ring for 2017?


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## Shawndeer (Jul 19, 2011)

I think the 14 would be fun. Definitely interesting.

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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> 290...280...not that big of difference.
> Upping the entry fee for the non-pro classes too.
> Known classes are growing and that helped bring about super senior known classes.


I never worried about the speed limit, but sort of surprised 290 was removed. 

As for the Known Super Senior, I don't think I was ever that far off judging (once in while though I'd really mess up). So now with Known it'll be pin point accuracy.


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

So is the speed change 100%?

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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

psehoghunter said:


> So is the speed change 100%?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


Yes, it's a done deal.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Repair Man said:


> Is there any truth to the rumor about the 14 ring for 2017?


I would love to see it come back! I shot the 14 in Hunter class and my first year (2 tournaments) in K45. My second year in K45 (2 tournaments) it was no longer in play and the tournaments were not nearly as interesting (FUN!). Every time you step to the stake you must at least look at the 14. Occasionally, you must seriously consider shooting at it!

If you do not like pressure or the stress of competition then you probably do not want the 14 in play! It does add pressure especially when you are shooting for the podium or your personal best finish!

Some folks will shoot at a lot of them when they really shouldn't while others will not shoot at even one under any circumstance. Neither scenario is a "good"!


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## Repair Man (Sep 13, 2014)

14 ring will be fun. Is the super senior known a done deal?


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

I wonder if they are going to have a mandatory move out list for some K50 shooters to known Pro?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

okarcher said:


> I wonder if they are going to have a mandatory move out list for some K50 shooters to known Pro?


Yes....however I don't know if that will be in effect yet. Meaning they can bump from the current crew in K50. Or of it will take place next year....

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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

sagecreek said:


> Yes, it's a done deal.


Well....bye 22s hello x cutters

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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

okarcher said:


> I wonder if they are going to have a mandatory move out list for some K50 shooters to known Pro?


Mike said certain shooters would be getting a letter telling them they are to play in Known Pro.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

sagecreek said:


> Yes, it's a done deal.


Good, I can bring out my old school 12+280=3D stickers again!!!!!!


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## Repair Man (Sep 13, 2014)

Is Super Senior Known going to happen?


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Repair Man said:


> Is Super Senior Known going to happen?


I sure hope so, I want to shoot against all the legends.


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## ca1224 (Dec 13, 2013)

2017 Rules and classes are Posted on ASA website.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

ca1224 said:


> 2017 Rules and classes are Posted on ASA website.


The new rules look good, except IMO they should whittle down the classes. K50, K45, & K40.... do we really need 5 yard increments for people otherwise shooting the same equipment and rules (especially when they're not judging yardage anyway)? The same goes for OpenB and OpenC now that both are half known and half unknown. Make it either a 40 or 45 yard max (or split the difference at 42.5 yds) and put them together.


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

nestly said:


> The new rules look good, except IMO they should whittle down the classes. K50, K45, & K40.... do we really need 5 yard increments for people otherwise shooting the same equipment and rules (especially when they're not judging yardage anyway)? The same goes for OpenB and OpenC now that both are half known and half unknown. Make it either a 40 or 45 yard max (or split the difference at 42.5 yds) and put them together.


Agreed 

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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

nestly said:


> .... do we really need 5 yard increments for people otherwise shooting the same equipment and rules (especially when they're not judging yardage anyway)? The same goes for OpenB and OpenC now that both are half known and half unknown. Make it either a 40 or 45 yard max (or split the difference at 42.5 yds) and put them together.


Probably not. Although I'd argue for Open C/ Open B since Open C is supposed to be for novice open shooters. Of course Bow Novice is supposed to be a class for novice hunter shooters and look at the scores in that class.


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## Repair Man (Sep 13, 2014)

I thought all classes were going to 280 even the pros.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

nestly said:


> The new rules look good, except IMO they should whittle down the classes. K50, K45, & K40.... do we really need 5 yard increments for people otherwise shooting the same equipment and rules (especially when they're not judging yardage anyway)? The same goes for OpenB and OpenC now that both are half known and half unknown. Make it either a 40 or 45 yard max (or split the difference at 42.5 yds) and put them together.


I would agree if any of the three were small classes, all three of these will run over 100 shooters each. I think with that many, they are easier to manage divided than they would be thrown together.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

allxs said:


> I would agree if any of the three were small classes, all three of these will run over 100 shooters each. I think with that many, they are easier to manage divided than they would be thrown together.


Exactly


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

That was one of the selling points at the meeting to get K40 added and making Open C 1/2 and 1/2. Too many people in the old Open C to manage.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

nestly said:


> The new rules look good, except IMO they should whittle down the classes. K50, K45, & K40.... do we really need 5 yard increments for people otherwise shooting the same equipment and rules (especially when they're not judging yardage anyway)? The same goes for OpenB and OpenC now that both are half known and half unknown. Make it either a 40 or 45 yard max (or split the difference at 42.5 yds) and put them together.


The 5 yard difference is not the only difference or even the most significant! The biggest difference between the classes is the skill level of the archers. The more classes you have the more archers you'll have working hard to crack the top 10 and more archers with a chance at making the podium. In other words, more happy customers which means more vendors wanting to be involved!

As previously mentioned classes with more than 100 archers can muddy up the flow of the tournament. Once you get to past 120 it's a real problem. Classes that get split have to shoot different courses so basically they are two different classes but without the structure, i.e. luck of the draw as to whether you get the tougher class or the weaker class. 

If anyone ever suggests "flighting" the classes they should be sent packing! Flighting is little more than drawing names out of the hat and declaring them a "winner"! The "winner" of the 1st flight just happened to land in the right spot, i.e. got lucky.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> That was one of the selling points at the meeting to get K40 added and making Open C 1/2 and 1/2. Too many people in the old Open C to manage.


A couple of years ago I got hissed at for suggesting Open C be renamed K40!

I am certain that making Open C half and half is the right thing to do. I think Bow Novice should also be half and half. Both are novice classes. 

I'm thinking Open B should be all unknown distance.


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## Dino757 (Jul 2, 2016)

I think the stab rule has a misprint. It says rear stab may exceed 6".


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Kstigall said:


> The 5 yard difference is not the only difference or even the most significant! The biggest difference between the classes is the skill level of the archers. The more classes you have the more archers you'll have working hard to crack the top 10 and more archers with a *chance* at making the podium. In other words, more happy customers which means more vendors wanting to be involved!
> 
> As previously mentioned classes with more than 100 archers can muddy up the flow of the tournament. Once you get to past 120 it's a real problem. Classes that get split have to shoot different courses so basically they are two different classes but without the structure, i.e. luck of the draw as to whether you get the tougher class or the weaker class.
> 
> If anyone ever suggests "flighting" the classes they should be sent packing! Flighting is little more than drawing names out of the hat and declaring them a "winner"! The "winner" of the 1st flight just happened to land in the right spot, i.e. got *lucky*.


"chance" and "lucky" are synonyms. so whether it's 3 classes within the same division (chance) or 3 flights within a division (luck), 66% of the pot gets paid to someone other than top shooters at the tournament.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Repair Man said:


> I thought all classes were going to 280 even the pros.


Nope. Read the rules. Pros and Known 50 still have 290 fps


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## Repair Man (Sep 13, 2014)

Senior open and senior known are showing 290.


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## ca1224 (Dec 13, 2013)

if i read it right all classes 50 yards is 290fps, 45 yards and under are 280fps


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Jenny at ASA said there was a mixup. All classes under 50 yards will be 280. Look at ASA forum page for details.


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

So all classes? Lol??

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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

psehoghunter said:


> So all classes? Lol??


There are 6 adult male classes that shoot over 45 yards. (ie 290fps)


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

nestly said:


> There are 6 adult male classes that shoot over 45 yards. (ie 290fps)


Gottcha....misread it. Thx

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## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

Kstigall said:


> I would love to see it come back! I shot the 14 in Hunter class and my first year (2 tournaments) in K45. My second year in K45 (2 tournaments) it was no longer in play and the tournaments were not nearly as interesting (FUN!). Every time you step to the stake you must at least look at the 14. Occasionally, you must seriously consider shooting at it!
> 
> If you do not like pressure or the stress of competition then you probably do not want the 14 in play! It does add pressure especially when you are shooting for the podium or your personal best finish!
> 
> Some folks will shoot at a lot of them when they really shouldn't while others will not shoot at even one under any circumstance. Neither scenario is a "good"!


I suppose the argument that the 14 is completely blown out after a couple rounds is mute, considering the same thing happens to the lower 12.

As a casual competitor, who only goal at this point is to shoot 200, I'd probably never even THINK about shooting at the 14. But I certainly have no problem with everyone else going for it. Why do you think neither scenario is a "good"? I'm not sure I understand. :set1_thinking:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Milo357 said:


> I suppose the argument that the 14 is completely blown out after a couple rounds is mute, considering the same thing happens to the lower 12.
> 
> As a casual competitor, who only goal at this point is to shoot 200, I'd probably never even THINK about shooting at the 14. But I certainly have no problem with everyone else going for it. Why do you think neither scenario is a "good"? I'm not sure I understand. :set1_thinking:


I'll take one if I luck into it.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I wish they would bring back the 14's, I loved watching people suck the life out of their score trying to hit them. 

Secondly, I could care less if the people who have enough money to buy a range have to get targets what have 14's that are shot up. Now that we have known 50 getting the 14's up and running would really change that game a bunch, right now they are just aiming at the lower 12 and hitting it or missing on the safe upper side and getting their 10. If they were shooting for 14's it would open up some 5's and 8's to the score cards and really change things up.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Milo357 said:


> I suppose the argument that the 14 is completely blown out after a couple rounds is mute, considering the same thing happens to the lower 12.
> 
> As a casual competitor, who only goal at this point is to shoot 200, I'd probably never even THINK about shooting at the 14. But I certainly have no problem with everyone else going for it. Why do you think neither scenario is a "good"? I'm not sure I understand. :set1_thinking:


You have to evaluate each target individually because every setting and situation is a bit different. But I now see where the confusion comes from. I was looking at it from the perspective of someone that is looking at cracking say the top 10 AND is very capable of doing it. My point was you don't want to be so committed to shooting at 14's that you lose points while at the same time you can't ignore the 14 to point where you leave points that you could have picked up on the course. Basically, don't be either too aggressive or not aggressive enough.

Regardless of skill level a competitor is trying to maximize his score. If your goal is to shoot even and that is not _below_ your skill level then absolutely aim center 10 and ignore all 14's! Hopefully, at some point your skill and confidence increase and you start thinking "I need to aim more at the 12 on some targets" and then eventually you think, "I need to aim _right at_ the 12 on this target". The best 3D'ers only occasionally think "I'm not going right at this 12!"............. Of course some 3D'ers think like that and they are over reaching!


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

Also, much closer scrutiny will be given to archers shooting particular classes. There wasn't anything highlighted in red text addressing thin in the rules, but I know without a shadow of a doubt, closer attention will be paid to who is shooting where this year. I know there has been talk about folks shooting a higher class at local ASA shoots, then shooting their normal class at the ASA tour events. We've kind of been in the middle of this situation, and have a little insight into the what will take place in the future.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> Amateurs fees increasing $10. Open A and K50 = $75
> Unlimited class being discontinued. New Hunter Elite class, 40 yard unknown distance, movable sight, 12" stabber.
> Senior Women - all known distance.
> Adding Women's Traditional class.


NO MORE UNLIMITED????????????????

That sucks for those of us who shoot pins. 
I can't figure why this class is not more popular.


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

If I understand the rule...You can still shoot your "unlimited" set-up..Just 5 yards closer!! 280 fps


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

ahcnc said:


> If I understand the rule...You can still shoot your "unlimited" set-up..Just 5 yards closer!! 280 fps


What class is that then?


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

Elite Hunter....40 yards..fixed pins..No restriction on stabilizer length.....280 fps...(If I read it correctly!!!)


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## 1tex3d (Jun 13, 2002)

ahcnc said:


> Elite Hunter....40 yards..fixed pins..No restriction on stabilizer length.....280 fps...(If I read it correctly!!!)


You are 100% correct! I think bringing it in 5 yards and giving it a new name will breathe new life into the class!


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm looking pretty hard at this class for 2017....


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

ahcnc said:


> I'm looking pretty hard at this class for 2017....


You could test the waters at the Indiana ASA qualifier scheduled for September 17...if they shoot the new classes...and I don't know why they wouldn't.


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

I do plan on shooting that..Hunter Elite or stay in Senior Open.....Still flip flopping on what I wanna do!!!!!!!


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

ahcnc said:


> I do plan on shooting that..Hunter Elite or stay in Senior Open.....Still flip flopping on what I wanna do!!!!!!!


Same here.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Wow, talk about confusing!

The rules I saw that came out of the meeting were 280 fps for all, now that's changed....and the Hunter Elite is fixed pins and no stab restriction? I thought it was going to be one-pin moveable site and 12" stab. And no amateur unknown-only classes below Open A, but several new amateur known classes?

I'm completely confused.


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## Repair Man (Sep 13, 2014)

Im there with u. I posted early on I thought all classes were going to 280, Pro included. I heard the same as you on the hunter elite also. I had many In our Assocation excited about a movable sight and 12" stabilzer. Guess I jumped the gun and spoke to soon on both.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Padgett said:


> I wish they would bring back the 14's, I loved watching people suck the life out of their score trying to hit them.
> 
> Secondly, I could care less if the people who have enough money to buy a range have to get targets what have 14's that are shot up. Now that we have known 50 getting the 14's up and running would really change that game a bunch, right now they are just aiming at the lower 12 and hitting it or missing on the safe upper side and getting their 10. If they were shooting for 14's it would open up some 5's and 8's to the score cards and really change things up.


I agree. Besides, how hard would it really be to build the 14 into the insert in that upper corner? They've already built them super cheap with the plastic legs and Crayola marker for paint, why not add another 1.5" circle in the corner!


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

rattlinman said:


> I agree. Besides, how hard would it really be to build the 14 into the insert in that upper corner? They've already built them super cheap with the plastic legs and Crayola marker for paint, why not add another 1.5" circle in the corner!


Don't forget the Delta foam in the head and butt now. lain:


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

carlosii said:


> You could test the waters at the Indiana ASA qualifier scheduled for September 17...if they shoot the new classes...and I don't know why they wouldn't.


Where can I find info on that shoot?


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## derwet (Jun 3, 2014)

derwet said:


> Where can I find info on that shoot?


Never mind. I found it a few minutes after posing the question.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> Don't forget the Delta foam in the head and butt now. lain:


Wait, they will have a head and butt this year! Yay! 

Talk about low-bid contracts!


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I just bought a new Med HD Deer target, I can pick that thing up and it feels like it weighs 5 pounds max. My old one with the original legs feels like at least 15-20.


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