# Paper Tuned > Broadhead Tuning > ?



## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

Personally I like bareshaft tuning over paper tuning. Bare shafts will behave like broadheads. If you get you bareshafts hitting even close to your fletched target tip arrows at 20 yards, your broadheads should be right there too.

I usually start by shooting one or two fletched target tipped arrows at about 10 yards. Then shoot one or two bareshaft arrows at the same point and same yardage. If your bareshafts hit to the left, the it would be the same as a nock right tear in paper. It also means you broadheads will hit left as well.

Think of it this way. Your bareshaft has no vanes/feathers to steer it once it leaves the bow. If you arrow leaves the bow pushing the nock to the right, the tip of the arrow will go towards the left. The arrow will then plane towards the left because it wants to follow that tip. If you shoot a target tip with a fletching and that nock gets pushed right, depending on the fletchings the arrows flight will be corrected fairly quickly and may be correct as the arrow hits the paper. Now think of a broadhead hunting arrow leaving your bow with the same nock right behavior. The broadhead will make it harder for the fletchings to correct the arrows flight as quickly because the broadhead (especially a fixed blade) is acting like a fletching too. The bareshaft tuning helps exaggerate any imperfections in the arrows flight as it leaves the bow, especially at longer distances. So if you can get the bare shaft tuned fairly close, it may not need to be exactly grouping with fletched target tips but say within an inch or two, then your broadhead hunting arrows will be pretty much smack on with your target tipped arrows.

Also bareshaft tuning to me seems easier than blindly shooting through a piece of paper, and having to replace that paper. And then having to go through and shoot my broadheads a bunch in case theres any minor tuning they need. If the bow is bareshaft tuned then you should only need to shoot a few broad heads to check that they are matching up, and then any practice you would do with broadheads, or to check that each arrow is hitting the mark as it should.

To me it seems a little easier to bareshaft tune. Keep in mind it will also magnify any inconsistencies to your shooting form. So if your bare shafts aren't grouping well you might not have consistent form.

Hoepfully this makes some sort of sense. Just my 2 cents. Do what you want with it.

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## LandDiver (Oct 2, 2013)

USMC TBone said:


> Personally I like bareshaft tuning over paper tuning. Bare shafts will behave like broadheads. If you get you bareshafts hitting even close to your fletched target tip arrows at 20 yards, your broadheads should be right there too.
> 
> I usually start by shooting one or two fletched target tipped arrows at about 10 yards. Then shoot one or two bareshaft arrows at the same point and same yardage. If your bareshafts hit to the left, the it would be the same as a nock right tear in paper. It also means you broadheads will hit left as well.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the reply. I still have a few bareshafts I didn’t fletch up yet. I will give it another go when my sight gets in. I tried bare shaft tuning before but didn’t fully understand the concept behind it. At 60 yards my bare shafts were hitting 8” left of field points. I never gave it another thought besides thinking how funky the bare shafts flew. Thanks again. When my sight gets back to me I’ll try harder to understand bare shaft group tuning.


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## raleigh111 (Sep 24, 2018)

LandDiver said:


> I appreciate the reply. I still have a few bareshafts I didn’t fletch up yet. I will give it another go when my sight gets in. I tried bare shaft tuning before but didn’t fully understand the concept behind it. At 60 yards my bare shafts were hitting 8” left of field points. I never gave it another thought besides thinking how funky the bare shafts flew. Thanks again. When my sight gets back to me I’ll try harder to understand bare shaft group tuning.


They were flying funky because you probable have a nock right condition and the rest needs to be moved to the left? If you use a broad head it is more then likely going to be very close to the same spot. When you get it dialed in they will not. One thing about bareshafts is everything has to be perfect, form release grip as they have zero forgiveness so make sure you use at least 2. Do you nock tune your bareshafts? If not you should as one could be perfect and anther nock left or? Make sure you have 2 that are the same through paper or at least hitting the target the same way every time. You must be pretty consistent and have a good tuned bow to shoot bareshafts 60 yards. One little hicup and by by arrow at that distance. If you are using a good solid foam block target squared up to the shooter you can see how they impact the target next to your fletched arrows. It is east to see nock left, right, high low. good luck.


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## LandDiver (Oct 2, 2013)

raleigh111 said:


> They were flying funky because you probable have a nock right condition and the rest needs to be moved to the left? If you use a broad head it is more then likely going to be very close to the same spot. When you get it dialed in they will not. One thing about bareshafts is everything has to be perfect, form release grip as they have zero forgiveness so make sure you use at least 2. Do you nock tune your bareshafts? If not you should as one could be perfect and anther nock left or? Make sure you have 2 that are the same through paper or at least hitting the target the same way every time. You must be pretty consistent and have a good tuned bow to shoot bareshafts 60 yards. One little hicup and by by arrow at that distance. If you are using a good solid foam block target squared up to the shooter you can see how they impact the target next to your fletched arrows. It is east to see nock left, right, high low. good luck.


Yes I do nock tune my bare shafts before I fletch them up. I shoot till bullet holes are achieved through paper up close, then step back to around 7 yards in my garage and rotate nocks till they all hit straight on in my target. I’ve always had nock left tears when shooting through paper while setting up. But after some minor adjustments to the rest it goes away. I’ve read and hear people paper tuning with fletched arrows out to 20 yards and getting bullet holes. Might have to break my PVC stand down and take it to the range with me lol.

It’s looking like I need to learn more about bare shaft tuning though. Makes me excited to get my sight back and learn something new.


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## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

So here's something to noodle on. I was tuning my Martin Inferno and kept continuously getting bareshafts and broadheads hitting about 8" left at 20 yds, no matter what I did. I tried everything short of shimmying the cams. I played with moving the rest, moving the cable guard to add or take away torque. The thing is I shouldn't be having this problem because the M4 symmetry cam system has this fancy ring harness system so that cables adjust to the torque placed on the cams and theres no way to tune left or right using the traditional methods. In fact I shouldn't have to tune left or right except for small amounts of my arrow rest. I got the bow between the early and late seasons because my previous bow's limbs started splintering a week before the early season and they offered me a trade in on it (story for another time). Any how, I ended up hunting the late season with my sight adjusted to my broadheads, maxed out, and still had to aim slightly right to hit my target. Not a lot of confidence in the set up past 40 yds. So the the next spring I put a lot of focus on trying to get this bow tuned and shooting better for me. I figure I'll just practice a ton with it to better my form and from there start bareshaft tuning and figuring it out. After about a month i noticed my grip, how I naturally hold the bow is causing the front of the bow to torque to the right (keep in mind my arrows were kicking to left), and the cable guard looks like it's about to touch my shaft when at full draw. I never noticed this before, nor had any problems with any other bows. So, I experiment a little, and torque my grip so that the cable guard and my arrow shaft are parallel to each other. Shoot a few fletched arrows with this new grip and then shot a couple bare shafts. All of the sudden my arrows all hitting much much closer to each other. After a few small adjustments to the rest, mostly to re-center my rest, all my arrow types are grouping with each other at 60 yards.

So as much as I had wished it was the bow it was me that needed to be tuned. A lot of tuning is just tweaking something here and there. Then seeing how it made a difference or if it didn't. When something does make a difference you just need to remember what you did and know if that difference is getting you closer or further from what you want you arrows to do. To.me bareshaft tuning makes sense for getting broadheads tuned. Of my bareshafts are hitting a good deal left then my broadheads will hit left. Also when bareshaft tuning it's important to go with where the tips are hitting the target, not just the slant of the arrow in the target. And start close up and then work you way back. They can be unpredictable if you're new to your set up.

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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

Get your fletched field point zeroed at 20 then shoot a bare shaft 3 or 4 times and see if they hit the same place and angle (I use a fresh piece of paper) disregard any shots that weren't perfect). Move the rest so the bare shaft moves towards the field point in general. If you are getting a good paper tear, you should be close. If your bare shaft is one inch to the right, move your rest to the left, or add a twist to the left yoke, or shim cams to the left (@ .020"), also some bows have adjustable cable guides, and then there is your grip. Your fixed head will plane in the same direction as the bare shaft (usually about twice as far as the bare shaft in the same direction) When you get the bare shaft, field point, and broad head all hitting the same place, move out further, you will be pleased, might need a slight tweak. No you don't have to recheck with paper. The problem with paper is an arrow wiggles as it travels. the paper os only a snapshot as it passes through the .004" plane, you are interested in broad head accuracy with a wiggling arrow.


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## raleigh111 (Sep 24, 2018)

pottergreg said:


> If your bare shaft is one inch to the right, move your rest to the left, arrow.


If his bareshaft is to the right this could mean a slight nock left condition so you would move rest to the right not left. Then resight in with field points at 20 yards and try again with bareshaft and or broad heads.


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## LandDiver (Oct 2, 2013)

I’ll remember this. Thank you. Shooting 100gn G5 Striker’s at the moment. Never bare shaft or broadhead tuned my previous bow. Always messed with the sight because that was the only way that I could think of. This will be my third September and I consider my self still really new to archery or hunting period. Learning will always be fun. Got my 92safari Press in the garage, but my little boys stole a couple of the clips so I have to go buy more to use it.



USMC TBone said:


> So here's something to noodle on. I was tuning my Martin Inferno and kept continuously getting bareshafts and broadheads hitting about 8" left at 20 yds, no matter what I did. I tried everything short of shimmying the cams. I played with moving the rest, moving the cable guard to add or take away torque. The thing is I shouldn't be having this problem because the M4 symmetry cam system has this fancy ring harness system so that cables adjust to the torque placed on the cams and theres no way to tune left or right using the traditional methods. In fact I shouldn't have to tune left or right except for small amounts of my arrow rest. I got the bow between the early and late seasons because my previous bow's limbs started splintering a week before the early season and they offered me a trade in on it (story for another time). Any how, I ended up hunting the late season with my sight adjusted to my broadheads, maxed out, and still had to aim slightly right to hit my target. Not a lot of confidence in the set up past 40 yds. So the the next spring I put a lot of focus on trying to get this bow tuned and shooting better for me. I figure I'll just practice a ton with it to better my form and from there start bareshaft tuning and figuring it out. After about a month i noticed my grip, how I naturally hold the bow is causing the front of the bow to torque to the right (keep in mind my arrows were kicking to left), and the cable guard looks like it's about to touch my shaft when at full draw. I never noticed this before, nor had any problems with any other bows. So, I experiment a little, and torque my grip so that the cable guard and my arrow shaft are parallel to each other. Shoot a few fletched arrows with this new grip and then shot a couple bare shafts. All of the sudden my arrows all hitting much much closer to each other. After a few small adjustments to the rest, mostly to re-center my rest, all my arrow types are grouping with each other at 60 yards.
> 
> So as much as I had wished it was the bow it was me that needed to be tuned. A lot of tuning is just tweaking something here and there. Then seeing how it made a difference or if it didn't. When something does make a difference you just need to remember what you did and know if that difference is getting you closer or further from what you want you arrows to do. To.me bareshaft tuning makes sense for getting broadheads tuned. Of my bareshafts are hitting a good deal left then my broadheads will hit left. Also when bareshaft tuning it's important to go with where the tips are hitting the target, not just the slant of the arrow in the target. And start close up and then work you way back. They can be unpredictable if you're new to your set up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


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## LandDiver (Oct 2, 2013)

pottergreg said:


> Get your fletched field point zeroed at 20 then shoot a bare shaft 3 or 4 times and see if they hit the same place and angle (I use a fresh piece of paper) disregard any shots that weren't perfect). Move the rest so the bare shaft moves towards the field point in general. If you are getting a good paper tear, you should be close. If your bare shaft is one inch to the right, move your rest to the left, or add a twist to the left yoke, or shim cams to the left (@ .020"), also some bows have adjustable cable guides, and then there is your grip. Your fixed head will plane in the same direction as the bare shaft (usually about twice as far as the bare shaft in the same direction) When you get the bare shaft, field point, and broad head all hitting the same place, move out further, you will be pleased, might need a slight tweak. No you don't have to recheck with paper. The problem with paper is an arrow wiggles as it travels. the paper os only a snapshot as it passes through the .004" plane, you are interested in broad head accuracy with a wiggling arrow.



Thank you! Reading all of this has me pretty excited to get to the range again. MBG has my sight for 5 business days so far to get the longer windage post installed. Waiting on the call back so I can pay what’s owed and have it heading my way.


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## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

MBG makes good sights and I love that they stand by their products. I dropped my bow from the treestand last year in the early season, I think the sight and arrow took the brunt of the impact. Only damage I could find on the bow was a bent screw knob for adjusting the elevation on my Montana Black Gold Ascent, 5 pin sliding sight. Was able to adjust the sight and resight in my bow and continue hunting. Once the late season was over I called up Black Gold and they told me to send in the sight, they covered shipping. They cleaned up the sight, fixed the bent screw/knob and sent it back in about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. No questions asked and didn't cost me a penny. I love that sight and the only way I'll ever need to buy a new one is if it gets stolen or lost.

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## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

Also if you ever confused about which way to move or adjust something. Just try going one way and take a few shots. Did it get better or worse or stay the same. It it's better that's the right way to move it :wink: If it got worse then you went the wrong way. Put it back and go the other way. If it didnt change then that isn't where the problem is, and maybe you need to try something else. It's that easy.

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## jrunyan (Dec 2, 2015)

I agree with the comments above. When trying to get your broadheads shooting well bareshaft tuning is the the place to start. Bare shaft tuning also will function as form tuning for the shooter as well. Facial pressure and grip flaws/inconsistencywill be made apparent.

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## LandDiver (Oct 2, 2013)

I appreciate all the help. Thank you. Today is the start of the second week MBG headquarters has had my sight to install the XL Windage post. Hopefully it’ll get done soon and on the way back to me after I pay what is owed for the work done.

Thanks again.


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## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

How much is MBG charging for installing the extra long windage bar/adjustment?

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## LandDiver (Oct 2, 2013)

USMC TBone said:


> How much is MBG charging for installing the extra long windage bar/adjustment?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


The part itself is $20. I do t know what labor would cost though. Would seem like a pretty swap, but the time it’s taken is telling me otherwise. Unless they are really busy making custom sights right now for orders.


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## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

Let us know what they ended up charging you.

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## LandDiver (Oct 2, 2013)

USMC TBone said:


> Let us know what they ended up charging you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


Got my sight back this past Friday. Total cost back to me including 3 day priority shipping was $21. Can’t wait to get to the range. Been working with nuts&bolts in the mean time. He is getting me dialed in from head to toe! Feeling extremely blessed!


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## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

Glad to hear they didn't charge you much more than what the part was worth.

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## keep_hunting_ca (Oct 3, 2017)

Good info, I'm pretty new to this stuff but would like to learn more.


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## NrthFrk16 (Apr 3, 2019)

Following.


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## hurley1718 (Sep 6, 2007)

Great information in this thread. I am getting back into archery hunting because of hiatus due to grad school. I just took my Ross Cardiac in to get new strings, cables, sight and rest. I had no idea what bareshaft tuning was until reading this thread. Thanks


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## LilBit90 (Oct 29, 2019)

following


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