# School me on Barge cement.



## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

used it with seal skin rests - don't like it - an adhesive rest lasts much longer - the barge cement also seems to fail without warning. I have found that heavy duty velcro that you can buy at hardware stores and craft stores works great for rests and strike plates - and when your bow is tuned - it lasts for very long time without showing any signs of wear.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Have used Barge contact cement in past; I too was not satisfied with results. 

My best results have always been with *"DAP Weldwood"* (Red label) and *industrial strength "Pliobond."* Don't get either in the tube. My experience has been that the _tubed_ contact, for some unknown reason, does not seem to work as well as "brush on." Follow the directions and I believe you'll find that the 2 contact cements work quite well. I have had rests stay on a bow for years without fail. Make sure you apply pressure while cement is drying but not so much pressure as to force the cement off the surfaces you are cementing together.

I prefer the rubberized qualities because the cement does not harden and become brittle, holds up well in low temperatures, and is designed to withstand vibrations.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

Personally had good results with Barge cement, however that is just with fabrics and leather. Not very good at all with plastic. Goo-Gone, lighter fluid, or acetone. all will clean it up. The barge cement itself doesn't hurt finishes, rather test whatever it is you're using as a solvent. If any damage is to be done it will be from whatever you're using for clean up. The fact that it doesn't screw up the finish is why I like it. 
The other responses here though do raise a question for me though, always willing to learn and try new stuff. Will the DAP Weldwood, and/or the Pliobond work on plastic rests?


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> Will the DAP Weldwood, and/or the Pliobond work on plastic rests?


I cannot say how well either (Weldwood or Pliobond) works on plastic being I have not used a plastic rest but for a brief period years ago when I tried a flipper-type rest. I have since used nothing for a fixed rest but hard nylon, thin brass or spring metal, or a cushion-type rest. All my rests are cemented to a leather or thin rubber shelf pad.

There is a caveat, though. 

Lately I have detected that the adhesives are acting differently then in the past. The "tacking" time is faster than in the past, and on a few occasions the cement dried too fast before I could tack the rest to the surface, and before when I would apply the cements to just one surface I now have to do both to assure a good adhesion. I am attributing this to the EPA/OSHA prohibition of the use certain chemicals in the formula that were used in the past and were what made the glues a well-performing product, as I believe is (prohibition of chemicals) what ruined the *original *"Fletch-Tite" that we once used for everything, including rests. It was good stuff.


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## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

I’ve always used Barge cement when fixing something onto my bows…I even apply a coat under self-stick items, however, I can’t comment on its use with plastic rests, as I don’t use them.

As the questions about adhesives is not uncommon, the schooling needs to be a little broader than just focusing on Barge cement…but it’s a good enough place to start.

There has been talk that the formulation for Barge cement has changed, however I’m still working with “old stock” so, until something different comes my way, my assessment and judgment regarding any “change” will have to be reserved for another time. That said, what makes such reports believable is that the EPA/Clean Air Act is sweeping through products that off-gas less than environment-friendly elements and, in this case as with paint formulas, the concern is VOC’s (volatile organic compounds). Like paint, rubber cements/contact adhesives are comprised of solids and a vehicle, and the vehicle is what keeps the solids in suspension until it evaporates away. Typically, it is the same liquid used to thin/reduce the product and also used in clean-up. (To any chemists/paint chemists out there, excuse me for the generalized, easier-to-digest approach.) Anyhow, the “newer” version of products behave differently (…often with “less reliably”) and have created no small wave of discontent. Reading the labels now becomes even more necessary in predicting the working-properties of a product and the results.

Okay…just a word here about my experience working with these types of products. The scale of use we’re talking about here opens the door to all sorts of “failures”, which I’ve encountered on a much larger scale. While we usually work with very small “hobbyist” quantities, I’ve applied hundreds of gallons of these types of adhesives…from laminating 5’ x 12’ sheets of Formica to full adhesion of 60’ wide rolls of sheet rubber…and I can tell you that such products offer an extremely thin margin between what works and what doesn’t.

The road to failure is often attributed to moisture…but I’ll address that more in a moment. The quality of the product is typically best when first opened…and it is either then or upon subsequent openings that it can be determined to be “junk”. Barge cement, as with other rubber-type cements, is a relatively thick product, but it tends to thicken with age…and might even come in a form that already resembles “too far gone” (...throw it away). The basic rule for such adhesives is that it needs to “string” when “cast to the wind”. (Most of us see this with the “old Fletch-Tite”. It’s that “cobweb” of glue that tends to trail from the applicator when we take the tube away, at the end of the pass...an indicator that the glue is still good.) Anyhow, with a “good” tube of cement it is best to return the cap as quickly as possible after use, and keep rolling the tube so as not to trap any outside air…which turns the contents to “junk”. 

Well, that’s a pretty basic routine…you have the effects of, “bad batch”, shelf-life, and open-air exposure, to be concerned with…so on to the moisture thing. Basic application is typically to both surfaces and the product should be dry enough, before making contact, so that it does not “return to your finger” when you touch it. Sounds simple enough, but knowing precisely when to bring the two surfaces together is absolutely critical to the results…too wet does not provide enough “grab” and too dry results in little to no grab. Not rocket science though…and you might have to redo things a couple of times (…probably better to experiment on something else first) but the whole thing is not beyond the average skill or patience of a hobbyist. That said, one of the major deterrents to good adhesion is a false reading of “dry-enough”…and the culprit here is an almost imperceptible film of moisture (often called “a blush”) that develops on the surface of the adhesive. The two main factors causing this blush are either high relative humidity, or “excessive” cooling of one or both of the glued surfaces due to the rapid evaporation of the vehicle…and this slight temperature change tends to draw moisture from the air, depositing it on the surface of the glue. If you then bring the pieces together, even though they may appear “somewhat” stuck…I can guarantee, without hesitation, that they will not remain that way…and I’d even go so far as to say many people using such products on a hobbyist level become disenchanted with the results from much the same cause. On large scale projects it becomes much easier to understand the nuances of these products…when it is a waste of both time and materials to do combat with the elements, and when it’s time to bring in the fans and heat. If the timing is not correct and the surfaces are not “truly” dry enough the products CANNOT perform as intended. 

So, how’s that for one version…and more than you ever wanted to know…of how to “successfully” stick something to your bow without the use of screws. The “old” products might have taken a bit of experience to produce good results, but I found them very dependable and am in no rush to encounter “the new stuff”. Many of the “old formulas” are still out there, packaged for some “other purpose” so, again, it takes some label reading and understanding of the contents. Reading from an “old” tube of Barge cement, aside from “FLAMMABLE” on the front, it also has toluene and ethyl acetate listed in its contents…so these are items I would be looking for in a comparable rubber cement. Straight out “contact cements” are a bit different, because they have been available in “water-based” formulas for some time…but, again, the old formulas are still out there, and having used both, I much prefer the old. 

The “old” Barge cement cleans off real easy…rubber cements tend to roll off with a little thumb pressure…and I’ll often apply it to both surfaces with 2 “thin” coats, each. As far as using any solvents on your bow, I would suggest caution. Lacquer thinner, acetone and the like are very apt to dissolve the finish of many, many bows…the glue dissolving products would be a better choice (…haven’t had a bad result, yet). Oh, and there is one formulation for contact cement that I used to use that only cleaned up well with lacquer thinner...so, again, there's an education in reading labels. 

No worries…YOU CAN DO IT! School's out. :tongue: Enjoy, Rick.


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