# Dealing with shoulder issues?



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Mine was a skiing accident in about 1973. No surgery for me, in fact I didn't even see a doctor. But about 3 years ago I thought I would have to give up archery. I was shooting a ProElite at the time, which, of course has a traditional limb angle. A friend switched me over to a PSE Supra, with it's parallel limbs. The pain in my bow shoulder went away in just a few days. Apparently the recoil or hand shock was more than my beat up shoulder could handle. I'm running into the same problem with a C-4. I shot it without pain for over a year, but recently it started getting sore. Yesterday, I went back to the Supra, so it hasn't had time to work it's magic again.

Allen


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## GRIMWALD (Sep 28, 2012)

Try to find a good massage therapist (not the happy ending kind) My wife has a frozen shoulder and massage seems to be her only relief without going for cortisone shots. She has regained all of her motion back and with regular strength training, she has full sue of her shoulder.

GRIM


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The smart thing to do right now would be to stop shooting and go to see a certified sports orthopedist and get a proper diagnosis of the problem--yes, an MRI is probably warranted. Then follow their instruction to a tee regarding the physical therapy that will likely be recommended. If the PT does not significantly ease the pain and return function, you may be a candidate for surgery. Chiropractic therapy will do nothing to provide long term resolution for shoulder injuries if related to the rotator cuff.

Once you do get back to shooting, you may find that the parallel-limb bows or standard bows with very smooth DFCs are more shoulder friendly for you.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I've had multiple issues with my draw shoulder and tendonitis to varying degrees in my bow arm. Currently I'm recovering from a rotator cuff "difficulty" in my right shoulder/arm.

The single most important item that has helped me is shooting the lowest possible draw weight I can buy. My compounds are currently all 40# models completely bottomed out at their lowest draw weights - my PSE is at 32lbs and my Hoyt at approximately 30. Yes, it is still possible to injure oneself with a low draw weight but that, more than anything, has been the best therapy for my particular condition(s).

The next, and really equally, important item is my form. What has helped me there is to try to achieve the most in-line bone on bone alignment that my neck will allow. I just invest in good arm guards (yes, the string slaps the arm on the shot and no, it doesn't affect my accuracy and no, I don't care) and keep my neck limber. But again, that's only been helpful for my particular set of injuries and is therefore only a personal what-helped-me report. 

Finally, I've switched to a different bow with a gentler draw cycle and less energy storage (Hoyt bow with Accuwheels on it). That reduces the amount of work my upper body has to do to draw the bow. Shoots my Easton ACEs at 193fps, but I can keep them in the gold at 20 yards. For outdoors next year, well, I'll just cross that bridge when I come to it. Right now for indoors, no problems.

As for my rotators, I do regular exercises for them and a warm up before I shoot a round. 

As for injuries themselves, my experience with them (which is considerable) is that, if they don't resolve or begin to resolve with rest and minor exercise after a reasonable period, they're probably bad enough to need medical attention. That is, if it's months and months and the pain/disability is staying the same (which it sounds like you're describing here), all bets are off on self-rehab and time to go through the medical process on them. I've had to do that several times with other injuries (been on an operating table for one) so I can definitely vouch for this particular diagnostic.

Those are my experiences only, so Caveat Emptor. 

DM


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Thanks to all that have responded so far. As far as the parallel limbs I was shooting a Dominator and a Supra up to and including the onset. They were 45-50# and I had just increased to 50# from 45# shortly before the pain really cranked up. Another factor that I did not mention was I had moved to a different release as well. Love the HBX but the first couple I had were a bear to get to go off. I believe this had much to do with my current problem. Rest does not help either as I actually seemed to be getting worst over the 2-2 1/2 months I did not shoot at all. I even switched to my left side for mouse activity (I work with computers) as using the right side was killing me. I have a doctor appointment on the 28th and I intend on coming away with a referral to get an MRI.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

E, thought you won the NE Field Sectional. If I didn't say Congrats...Congrats. 

If you read of my shoulder overhaul it first treated as a separated shoulder, which the shoulder was separated. Yeah, therapy was suggested and I read up on it and therapy was noted many times. BUT! Surgery is sometimes performed. Here, the separation is pinned, but the pin can only stay in so long or it will eventually break due to the shoulder is flexing. The other option was sutures which eventual disintegrate and absorbed, I guess. One thing about surgery, the separation is felt in, put back where it's supposed to be. Figure a broken cup handle. You can glue it back together so-so or wiggle the handle so the break is damn hard to see or can't be seen. Maybe a example; My dad had a broken leg and was set. A week later another doctor looked over the x-rays and decided 97% correct wasn't good enough and broke my dad's leg and set it so it 100%. 
Here it is 10 months later I still feel a bit of sting at the separation.

Well, there are good Chiropractors, but if something is messed in there.... X-rays don't show everything. They showed my separation, but not the rotor cuff tore up or the detachments of the bicep and scapula.
Dumb, I think, but usually a doctor has to order a MRI and then MRIs don't show everything. Wasn't until they stuck a camera in me that the surgeon saw just how bad things were. 

Shoulder overhauled I was back to shooting in record time, if by my Therapist and Surgeon. No pain drawing my bow straight back on target as usual. Took a bit though, effecting my bow hand, how I drew, my shoulder stiff and not going where it should...

I went to my Therapist and told to continue some of my exercises that I had been doing and a couple of others to stretch my shoulder differently and it's helping big time.
I'm pretty close to shooting as I was before the accident, but for whatever reason I get to pulling into wall harder than before the accident. So a learning process of just getting on the wall. We've had rotten weather in a good way, not overly cold, no snow, but rain and wind to beat the band. Still, I get in a bit of shooting. No warming up, just shooting and if I don't pull into wall I do great....for me. Weather agreeable I shoot up to 100 arrows per day, but not everyday. Hey, I know I'll never be Reo, Jesse or any of the upper level shooters.

My shoulder, overall it aches from time to time, but never any pain when shooting. I can be watching TV it'll ache. Go out and shoot and it stops aching. Heck, it aches when I wake up. Go figure.

Ain't the first time I've been hurt. There's waiting and nursing along, but with the passing of time and things are still hurting it's time to see the doctor. And I'd advise that right now. You sure don't want to be crippled up where you can't shoot...maybe forever.

Hoping the best for you........


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Thanks Sonny, I'm sitting here on the PC and I'd rather be down in the cellar shooting a few. I did shoot last night in my league but was awful. Grrrr


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I too found that the somewhat "jolty" draw cycle of the ME cams on my Supra Max was contributing to my overall discomfort. The "thunk" dropoff into the valley and the low letoff were putting strain on both arms - the draw arm due to the rapid drop in force and the bow arm having to hold up more of the weight of the bow because of the low holding weight. 

So yeah if your bows are equipped with the ME cams, yes, those are really pretty aggressive cams in general and may be helping to aggravate the injury. 

My wheel bow has much gentler changes in draw force throughout the curve and a 65% letoff which helps the forces involved support the weight of the bow a little bit. Every little bit helps!

DM


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Never cared much for the ME cams, especially on the Dominators. I also recently converted from the ME's to the new MD's on both of my Dominators which made for a vast improvement in the shoot-ability of them. Not sure if either ahd anything to do with my issue though. The pain actually started at the start of last year's indoor and may not even be archery related. Around that time I stood up into a granite breakfast bar in my kitchen, catching my shoulder just right. I'm not sure but this could have been the root of my recent issues.

I should also clarify that drawing the bow isn't the difficult part, it's raising the bow to shooting position. Once its up there I don't have much difficulty drawing. The shock of the bow going off is another issue...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Maybe just me, E, but it seems I strain more with a hinge. I starting to do something on the order of decent, but just couldn't find a groove and most coming from medium handles a bit too small. Went back to my ST360 and no stress, my hand relaxed and must feed back to my shoulder. And then I picked up Lazuras's method of firing my thumb release. Not exactly, but pretty close. Fingers hooked, hand relaxed, get anchored and all and just squeeze my middle and ring finger. Just kind of sweet. The biggest of the sweet is no stress and a lot less pulling into the steel reinforced concrete wall of my Pearson. Man, just ain't no give with dual limb stops.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> I should also clarify that drawing the bow isn't the difficult part, it's raising the bow to shooting position. Once its up there I don't have much difficulty drawing. The shock of the bow going off is another issue...


Didn't catch this. The most feared my therapist had was the release of tension, the firing of the bow. Hey, when I did, using a 10 pound theraband, I felt it, not bad, but certainly there. Still, I was healing, you're hurt and that jar could aggravate your problem....


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

What does your bow-side follow through look like? Do you do any supporting exercises to promote shoulder muscle maintenance? 

Grant


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

EPLC said:


> I should also clarify that drawing the bow isn't the difficult part, it's raising the bow to shooting position. Once its up there I don't have much difficulty drawing. The shock of the bow going off is another issue...


Agree, that could be a one-time injury that also affects your shooting, and it just hasn't healed whatever it is. So I completely concur it's time to see the doctor and get to the root of it.

As for hand shock, I admit my SM was one of the gentler bows I've ever shot on the release. My Hoyt wheel bow, on the other hand, the entire building shakes when that thing goes off, so definitely don't shoot something like that in the meanwhile 

DM


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

grantmac said:


> What does your bow-side follow through look like? Do you do any supporting exercises to promote shoulder muscle maintenance?
> 
> Grant


When I get the chance I'll post up a new video. Here's one I did last winter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l06nbmGVN8

... and no, I don't have any specific exercises for the shoulders although I'd be interested in identifying some for future use.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I've also decided to lighten the mass weight of the setup as much as I can, or at least move it around. I started this afternoon by making a 30" 3.25 Oz front stabilizer to replace the 30" 5.25 Oz on the bow. Next step will be to replace the side rod with my lightest design. My 18" Hi-Mod side bar at 4.25 Oz has a lot of room to cut back on the weight. I should be able to knock off at least 4-5 Oz on the bars which can be added to the end weight if needed without increasing the overall weight of the system.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

EPLC said:


> ... and no, I don't have any specific exercises for the shoulders although I'd be interested in identifying some for future use.


You will be getting a set of home exercises from your physical therapist. Once medically cleared, I have a bunch I currently use that I'd be happy to share.


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## grousegrove (Aug 8, 2013)

I am not a doctor nor do I play one on the Internet, so I cannot offer specific advice other than to talk to someone who is. But I can tell you is that I had a very painful, long – term pain in my left shoulder that a shoulder specialist was finally able to resolve to nearly 100% with a minor surgery and a few months of physical therapy. I had delayed dealing with it for a long time (years) and I now believe that was foolish. Fast forward about six years to today, that shoulder's still good but I am dealing with an even more painful situation in my other shoulder (drawing arm) that I reluctantly admit archery is not helping, and which I fear may even have caused or exacerbated. As soon as the holidays are over I hope to see the shoulder guy again, and I hope he can help me. It really sucks to think about how my archery may affect it, and how it may affect my archery, especially now that I'm pursuing goals. But that's life in the "second half" I guess. Hopefully there's a fix to the arm but there's no cure for age. Try not to injure it more, obviously. I'm optimistic you - and I - can make progress and be pain free again. 

Merry Christmas 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Let me remind all you youngsters that I turned 70 on November 14th... aut of course that has nothing to do with it! (I'm actually in excellent shape for an old coot )


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Just a little behind, E. I'm 66 and turn 67 next March. We could share injuries here and downfalls. Let the pups know what we've been through and still holding our own and kicking some of their butts


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Well I'm 52, but both of you could kick my rear at the line with no problemo, if that helps any lol.

DM


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

EPLC said:


> When I get the chance I'll post up a new video. Here's one I did last winter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l06nbmGVN8
> 
> ... and no, I don't have any specific exercises for the shoulders although I'd be interested in identifying some for future use.


It looks to my totally uneducated eye that you shoot with a fairly passive front end and it gets loaded downward during the shot rather than following through forwards. Not sure if that is related but I've experienced some should pain when shooting that way.

Definitely stick with the rehab exercises to start with then maybe consider adding a bit of free weights down the road. 

Grant


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## jozi (Oct 29, 2011)

( I started this afternoon by making a 30" 3.25 Oz front stabilizer to replace the 30" 5.25 Oz on the bow)

Hi there. I am in almost in the same situation (arthritus in bowshoulder and 66)
For me i noticed that as little movement of bow arm and shoulder is the best. In your video u raise the bow a bit high and with movement. I raise the bow and than wait a second or two before drawing the bow without moving the bow arm, which results in no pain.
i also try to lower the weight of the bow and would like to now how u manage to lower the weight of the stabilizer


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## pops (Oct 10, 2015)

I fell almost a year ago broke my wrist which healed fine ,but my shoulders was more of a whiplash it was about 6 months before i could get my bow up to be able to draw it. Im just now getting back to where i can shoot again. what i did was take this time to make
some form changes being i was almost starting over. and seem to be shooting a lot better. I read a lot of post y'all have put on At which has helped a lot thank you for that. as far as kicking butt I will have to hire that done.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

jozi said:


> ( I started this afternoon by making a 30" 3.25 Oz front stabilizer to replace the 30" 5.25 Oz on the bow)
> 
> Hi there. I am in almost in the same situation (arthritus in bowshoulder and 66)
> For me i noticed that as little movement of bow arm and shoulder is the best. In your video u raise the bow a bit high and with movement. I raise the bow and than wait a second or two before drawing the bow without moving the bow arm, which results in no pain.
> i also try to lower the weight of the bow and would like to now how u manage to lower the weight of the stabilizer


Lowering the mass weight of the bow does help. I took off 4 Oz's by reducing the stabilizer weight. How was this done? I make my own stabilizers. I went from a 3/4" diameter, 1/16" wall hi-mod bar to a standard mod .707" bar with .040" wall. This combined with lighter designed end caps produced the difference. I actually prefer the lighter rods as you have more freedom with weight balance.


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## claymx (Jan 31, 2010)

I blew my shoulder out at work back in 2012. Went sent to the physio clinic my work supplied and the therapist made it worse. Ended up going to another therapist after I was supposedly healed and sent back to work and got most thing worked out but took along time to get back to shooting a bow. Just started recently trying to get back into shooting shape as I committed myself to go to Vegas and I am finding the spirals are causing me issues. Tried lowering my draw weight and playing with let off but still get that familiar pain in my shoulder. Not from drawing the bow but the holding weight. Went and shot an Elite and was pissed off because it felt so easy compared to spirals. Im not an old buy but when your shoulder is pooched I guess its time to change to a less aggressive cam to ease the shoulder. I did drop a bunch of weight off my bow mass which makes things a bit better but the spirals got my shoulder jacked up after awhile. 
I had a slight tear in my rotator cuff, shoulder impingement and what seems like never ending bursitis now. Trying different firing engines with hinges but with those spirals you need to be a bit aggressive, for me, or I find or the shot falls apart. Time for a change I guess. Put up with what I have until after Vegas. That way I have an excuse why I shot like crap! lol

Shoulder strengthening exercises helped me the most but you can over-do those really easy due to the small stabilizer muscles around your shoulder don't need a lot of working out. I use rubber bands supplied by the therapist to strengthen them. Anymore then that for me and its overdoing it.

Hope you find your way to a speedy recovery!


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## twofinger (Feb 12, 2012)

My Shoulder problems have been on going for a year now. it's my draw shoulder, i went through therapy seen 2 different doctors one said torn rotator cuff the other said a frozen shoulder. back shooting started with a genesis set at 10# i am now back shooting my bow set at 40#. little steps are better than no steps at all. Lucky for me i shoot with a great group of guys that set me a close target during leagues and one of the let me shoot his genesis bow. with me it was finding out what the problem was and then asking about being able to shoot. lucky for me my last doctor is a bow hunter so he understood my passion. Good luck to you


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## bowfishingrooki (Aug 8, 2008)

Only 39 years old and had my shoulder's ac joint ground on to prevent further cutting of biceps tendon. Following the bow/cam info but offer you to look into the buckburger 12 shoulder exercises. I use some for my pt and helps big time.


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## Timinator (Feb 10, 2012)

Get a 50-60# Elite Answer.


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

I have had both shoulders operated on for rotator cuff tears ,and it appears I have tore my right one again. Getting an MRI on the 14 , back to the docs on the 20 to see whats up.
I cannot lift my bow up at all, I shoot LH. Just not sure I want surgery again with 3D season coming up, but if I can not raise my bow I guess it won't make much difference


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

I really feel for you guys (yes even you sonny). I couldn't imagine how frustrating or debilitating such an injury could be. It's great that all of you have the spirit not let it stop you doing something you love.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Trykon Mike said:


> I have had both shoulders operated on for rotator cuff tears ,and it appears I have tore my right one again.


Bummer, man. How did you tear the right again? My surgeon will not clear me to work out in a gym anymore due to the fact that by using free or machine weights, I could get myself into a position to re-injure one of my shoulders he so carefully reconstructed. I am fully cleared to shoot though, but since the last surgery was on my bow arm, the recovery back to competitive form is taking FOREVER.,...


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

I tore it bench pressing , 3rd week of Nov. I knew it when it happened. I've iced it quite a lot which has helped with the pain


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Trykon Mike said:


> I tore it bench pressing , 3rd week of Nov. I knew it when it happened. I've iced it quite a lot which has helped with the pain


Well, I didn't know I tore my right shoulder until I couldn't move it. I think I was knocked out for a bit. Sure knew it when I picked my right arm with my left.

My left shoulder. Left handed, left eye dominant, everyone said I should be shooting left handed, not right handed. Wife buys me a left hand bow. Bow turned all the way down to 50 pounds. 3rd day, I think, I drew back and my shoulder gave out. I heard it rip...Yeah, heard it, felt it. Loss use of my left arm for 6 weeks, no control, would flop all over and had to be cinched down. Sold the left handed bow.....


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Trykon Mike said:


> I tore it bench pressing , 3rd week of Nov. I knew it when it happened. I've iced it quite a lot which has helped with the pain


Yes, that pain is unmistakable. I wish for you a speedy, complete recovery, and a full return to shooting! All the best!


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## f40mcd (Jan 28, 2012)

EPLC said:


> In 197? I had a motorcycle accident that I came away from with a separated right shoulder (I shoot lefty). It was not operated on but I was in a binder/sling for 8 weeks to bring the clavicle down. The shoulder has been a off and on problem since but hasn't really interfered with my shooting until late August, although last winter I did have to deal with a lot of pain throughout the indoor season. Outdoors wasn't too bad and in July I won my class in the NE Field Sectional. A few weeks later I couldn't even finish the 2-day New England Shoot. I don't even know how I got through day one as I could barely raise the bow into position to shoot. I didn't shoot an arrow from then until just a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> I recently started out with a Genesis backed off to 15# but now have stepped up to a 35# Vantage Elite. I'm able to shoot but still dealing with moderate pain. As a result my scores have been dismal.. but I am shooting on a limited basis.
> 
> Of those of you that have dealt with shoulder issues... what did you do to recover and how are you doing now? Any and all suggestions will be helpful... and no, I have not had an MRI but I am seeing a Chiropractor which is helping. Also, rest seems to do no good at all as I was in the Seattle area from mid-September through mid-November without any improvement.


Did your chiro try Gratston scraping by chance? 


USA Archery Instructor
Penn State University Archery/Bowhunting Instructor
CrossFit Coach 
#ishootelite


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

montigre said:


> Yes, that pain is unmistakable. I wish for you a speedy, complete recovery, and a full return to shooting! All the best!


Thank You


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

f40mcd said:


> Did your chiro try Gratston scraping by chance?
> 
> 
> USA Archery Instructor
> ...


I haven't a clue what that is? What he did do (and continues to do) was work the muscle under my right scapula with his thumb. This causes moderate pain in a certain spot that generates up to my shoulder. Hurts like hell but I feel much better afterwards... like right now as I just returned from a visit.

Edit: I just looked that up and yes, kind of. He does it with an electronic devise instead of the tool I saw in the video. Basically the same process.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Imagine spreading butter on a slice of soft bread..supposedly increases circulation to the area and breaks up adhesions/scar tissue. Not really sure if it works or is snake oil....


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

No real help with my shoulder separation, but after surgery and healing...Therapist would stretch and work on muscles and stuff. I did not cry or scream. When through with and just about out the hospital door I felt so good I thought about taking on Godzilla or King Kong...for a while anyway. My one therapist....Oh, she had the warmest hands...I melted like butter. Oh, I miss her....


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

montigre said:


> Imagine spreading butter on a slice of soft bread..supposedly increases circulation to the area and breaks up adhesions/scar tissue. Not really sure if it works or is snake oil....


There is a fine line between manipulation through limb movement and tissue damaging load when I comes to breaking scare adhesion. 
i think this is where most patients mess up. They feel good not long after the injury and feel that if they can move and manipulate then they can do light exercise. My X is a hand therapist and sees this all the time. Was always complaining how patients keep coming back with reoccurring problems. As frustrating as it seems, it's best to go slow, listen to what your surgeon and therapist say. A year or two off in the scheme of things is a small price to pay for long term healing.


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## BobG88 (Mar 12, 2015)

EPLC said:


> What he did do (and continues to do) was work the muscle under my right scapula with his thumb. This causes moderate pain in a certain spot that generates up to my shoulder. Hurts like hell but I feel much better afterwards... like right now as I just returned from a visit.
> 
> You'll laugh, but I've used this "therapy substitute" for years, and it definitely helps: take a tennis ball and place it in a sock (bet you're already laughing!). Take the sock and ball and place it over your shoulder, to where the ball is laying above/against the point where your doc massages. Then, leaning against a wall, simply rub the ball up/down and back/forth against the wall - you may have to move it around/manipulate your shoulder a bit to find the exact pressure point, but keep trying, and you'll find it.
> 
> ...


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## claymx (Jan 31, 2010)

The physio clinic I go to has these hard balls they sell for the same use. It works pretty good. 
I knew exactly when I injured my shoulder. It felt like my shoulder, right through my scapula and trap muscle to my neck, was on fire and lots of pain. Dropped the sledge hammer and couldn't pick it up as my hand was stuck open. Couldn't close my hand for a bit. 
Bench press is the worst for me. I think its also one of the exercises that really puts a lot of pressure on your rotator cuff as well. 
Got my hands on an Elite Victory the other day and it drew like butter. Have one on order. Hopefully with the smooth draw and higher let off, I can ease my shoulder issues.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

duc said:


> I really feel for you guys (yes even you sonny). I couldn't imagine how frustrating or debilitating such an injury could be. It's great that all of you have the spirit not let it stop you doing something you love.


No sympathy needed. Yep, had some re-learning muscles, adjusting, but I'm ready. If I've over told about my shoulder it's to tell what can be expected. As me recovering, I've told what my both Therapist and my Surgeon told me, that my recovery was almost a miracle. I pushed myself at home, doing double and triple time for exercises. I was given full release at 16 weeks when I proved I could draw, anchor and hold 60 pounds on the weight machine. That was a piece of cake compared to drawing a 55 pound bow. Like to pulled myself in half the first few days.

I've got new out Ben Pearson MX3 on the way... I'm going to have fun in 2016.....


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

aread said:


> Mine was a skiing accident in about 1973. No surgery for me, in fact I didn't even see a doctor. But about 3 years ago I thought I would have to give up archery. I was shooting a ProElite at the time, which, of course has a traditional limb angle. A friend switched me over to a PSE Supra, with it's parallel limbs. The pain in my bow shoulder went away in just a few days. Apparently the recoil or hand shock was more than my beat up shoulder could handle. I'm running into the same problem with a C-4. I shot it without pain for over a year, but recently it started getting sore. Yesterday, I went back to the Supra, so it hasn't had time to work it's magic again.
> 
> Allen


Well the Supra is working it's magic for me again. Even better, I got some 50# limbs and it's really fun shooting again. I've pounded out 100 arrows a day for 4 days with no pain. I'm a happy boy 

E, Obviously your injury is different from mine and won't respond to the same things. I hope you get it worked out soon. I know you love shooting a bow as much as I do.

Allen


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

montigre said:


> Imagine spreading butter on a slice of soft bread..supposedly increases circulation to the area and breaks up adhesions/scar tissue. Not really sure if it works or is snake oil....


My chiropractor said it helps break down the buildup of lactic acid... all I know is it helps  



duc said:


> ...A year or two off in the scheme of things is a small price to pay for long term healing.


When you're 70 you tend not to think in terms of taking a year or two off... 



BobG88 said:


> You'll laugh, but I've used this "therapy substitute" for years, and it definitely helps: take a tennis ball and place it in a sock (bet you're already laughing!). Take the sock and ball and place it over your shoulder, to where the ball is laying above/against the point where your doc massages. Then, leaning against a wall, simply rub the ball up/down and back/forth against the wall - you may have to move it around/manipulate your shoulder a bit to find the exact pressure point, but keep trying, and you'll find it.
> 
> You'll be amazed at how similar the results are to a therapy session - not quite the same, but close. [Another way is to lay on the floor and rub your back against the ball - probably a bit more effective...] Also, if you have front shoulder pain points that feel better when massaged, the tennis ball does a great job there also.
> 
> BG


Thanks, I'll try that!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> When you're 70 you tend not to think in terms of taking a year or two off...


You got that right. When told I wouldn't be able it draw a bow for 12 to 14 months I was do disheartened I thought about just hanging it up. I sold my new MX2 bow just because of being told of the 12 to 14 months. I thought there was no way I could come back after that long off, not at my age, 66.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

http://youtu.be/QKbAkFqRaBU. Check it out can help understanding a lot.


Staff shooter Dream Shot Archery makers of Twisted Minds bowstrings. 
Hoyt Pro Comp Elite XL 51#
AXcel Acheive sight. Hamskea rest


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

That's actually a very good video. All of the exercises in the world will not produce long-term results if you do not back it up with a good, supportive posture from your core. Thanks for posting this Sasquech.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

montigre said:


> That's actually a very good video. All of the exercises in the world will not produce long-term results if you do not back it up with a good, supportive posture from your core. Thanks for posting this Sasquech.


And while exceptions exist, after observing many shooters I've the years, posture and good shooters go hand in hand. Not to mention the injury factor.


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## BobG88 (Mar 12, 2015)

If you're so-inclined to do home therapy, this link contains a number of excellent "low impact" exercises: http://synergyclinic.net/patient-resources/shoulder-exercises/

BG


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

I found a number of restorative videos for the shoulder pain. It is helping a lot for me hopefully avoid surgery


Staff shooter Dream Shot Archery makers of Twisted Minds bowstrings. 
Hoyt Pro Comp Elite XL 51#
AXcel Acheive sight. Hamskea rest


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Growing old is not for sissies.

I injured my left shoulder in 1972 and it didn't recover until 1997. I started splitting wood with a maul and that got my shoulder strong enough to not cause any problems.

In 2005 I got a left frozen shoulder. This took 1.5 years to heal and just as it healed the right shoulder froze up. Another 1.5 years and it healed. So for this 3 year period I could not shoot a bow or even raise my arms high enough to shoot a shotgun.

My advice is that if your shoulders are in good shape, then keep them that way by gentle exercise. If your shoulders are in bad shape, then get expert advice and follow it.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Just had arthoscopic (spelling?) surgery on my left shoulder last Monday. The MRI indicated a bone spur and a bad bicep. The surgery took care of the spur and also trimmed some fraying on the tendons. I had a bit of arthritis that the doc cleaned out as well. He "clipped" the offending bicep muscle.

Not certain how long its going to take to get me back shooting, but I'll get there I hope but probably not by my 76th birthday in March.

What strikes me is the lack of sound medical research on the problems associated with archery. The doctor who operated on me is one of the team doctors for the Colts and also serves as team doctor for the high school. He specializes in shoulders and knows his business. But, he was able to relate my restrictions to my gold swing but not to my archery form.

IMHO we need more research into archery related injuries.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Hope the best for you, Chuck...

Age maybe, but nothing like a ripped loose bicep or tore up rotor cuff. I got turned loose after 16 weeks, so hoping you're up and running in half that.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

SonnyThomas said:


> Hope the best for you, Chuck...
> 
> Age maybe, but nothing like a ripped loose bicep or tore up rotor cuff. I got turned loose after 16 weeks, so hoping you're up and running in half that.


Thanks Sonny. Me too.


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## f40mcd (Jan 28, 2012)

montigre said:


> Imagine spreading butter on a slice of soft bread..supposedly increases circulation to the area and breaks up adhesions/scar tissue. Not really sure if it works or is snake oil....


I 100% believe in Gratston and also kinesio tape to aid in circulation and healing. 

Hurts like hell but recommend it!


USA Archery Instructor
Penn State University Archery/Bowhunting Instructor
CrossFit Coach 
#ishootelite


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Holy cow Batman, I truly believe my shoulder issue is getting better!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Any particular reason, EPLC? Or just time?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Any particular reason, EPLC? Or just time?


I'm not really sure? I spent 3 months not shooting at all and the shoulder didn't get any better. Since mid November I've been seeing a chiropractor and he has definitely helped my shoulder. I also believe shooting has helped the way I have approached it. I started out with 15# and over the past 2 months have been gradually increasing it. The downside of this is now I have 7 bows to show for my effort. The upside is that I'm up to 46#, found a bow I love, and my groups are starting to tighten up a little. I shot a local competition last night and turned in a 298 33X. No world beater for sure, but it does represent my best post shoulder injury. I start physical therapy Tuesday. I think it may help.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I shot my first 300 day before yesterday or whenever it was I found the spring tension had backed off. And then I shot a bunch and woke up aching. Still, got to shoot some yesterday and no pain, just in my lower back for whatever reason. X count was nothing to brag about.... Nothing really feels quite the same or varies day to day. Did get to shoot from 40 yards and felt pretty good about it. Not earth shattered, but okay.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Well you guys try not to feel too bad - I've now of all things begun to come down with tennis elbow in the draw arm LOL. I've shot off and on since the 80's and never had a minutes trouble with my elbows... So I'm going to do the right thing and blame the equipment! I've been shooting my PSE in league which is a pretty harsh draw cycle over 60 arrows and then practice 2 or 3 times a week. So it's possible that's the cause.

Fortunately, I didn't tear up my Hoyt to outfit the PSE, only took off the sight and removed the peep aperture. So I've resurrected it and will see if its much gentler draw cycle helps with the TE before it becomes tendonitis.... 

Definitely, getting old ain't for sissies....

DM


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

*Oh My God!*

Oh my God, was this actually me? The shoulder thing has really put a ***** in my armor... 298 33X is my high so far on my road to recovery... And I can't blame the equipment. 2009 was Mathews, 2012 was Hoyt and the 2015 Sectional was PSE...


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## LongIslandHunt (Nov 2, 2015)

1 teaspoon of cayenne pepper mixed with warm water - drink 3x per day. Nasty stuff, you'll be amazed at what it does for inflammation and pain.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> Oh my God, was this actually me? The shoulder thing has really put a ***** in my armor... 298 33X is my high so far on my road to recovery... And I can't blame the equipment. 2009 was Mathews, 2012 was Hoyt and the 2015 Sectional was PSE...


:thumbs_up


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## Acezhi (Apr 17, 2014)

I have been dealing with a rotator cuff injury for over 20 years.
I am now just getting to the point where I can draw 70# comfortably again.
Start with a low draw weight and feel it out.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

EPLC said:


> Oh my God, was this actually me? The shoulder thing has really put a ***** in my armor... 298 33X is my high so far on my road to recovery... And I can't blame the equipment. 2009 was Mathews, 2012 was Hoyt and the 2015 Sectional was PSE...


Awsome! And that'll be you again, I bet!

DM


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Well, here it is, about 10 months since my shoulder crapped out on me. Since then I started by taking 3 months off completely which did no help at all. I then went to a chiropractor which did help (I still see him). I also went to about 2-3 months of physical therapy which also helped. Six weeks ago I joined a gym to continue my shoulder workouts and this may be the best yet. Since mid-November I've also been shooting, starting off with a 20# kid's bow and slowly working my way back up. I'm currently shooting 48# which is where I was before the injury. Scores have been slow to come back but I do see some good days now... Shot a 265 field half today but it's been a struggle. I'm at about 90% right now and can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I may not be 100% yet but I think its attainable.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

EPLC said:


> Well, here it is, about 10 months since my shoulder crapped out on me. Since then I started by taking 3 months off completely which did no help at all. I then went to a chiropractor which did help (I still see him). I also went to about 2-3 months of physical therapy which also helped. Six weeks ago I joined a gym to continue my shoulder workouts and this may be the best yet. Since mid-November I've also been shooting, starting off with a 20# kid's bow and slowly working my way back up. I'm currently shooting 48# which is where I was before the injury. Scores have been slow to come back but I do see some good days now... *Shot a 265 field half today but it's been a struggle. I'm at about 90% right now and can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I may not be 100% yet but I think its attainable.*


EP, that's good news. Sincerely hoping you can find that 100% high gear.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> Well, here it is, about 10 months since my shoulder crapped out on me. Since then I started by taking 3 months off completely which did no help at all. I then went to a chiropractor which did help (I still see him). I also went to about 2-3 months of physical therapy which also helped. Six weeks ago I joined a gym to continue my shoulder workouts and this may be the best yet. Since mid-November I've also been shooting, starting off with a 20# kid's bow and slowly working my way back up. I'm currently shooting 48# which is where I was before the injury. Scores have been slow to come back but I do see some good days now... Shot a 265 field half today but it's been a struggle. I'm at about 90% right now and can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I may not be 100% yet but I think its attainable.


Keep chugging, EPLC.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Keep chugging, EPLC.


The gym is helping more than I could have ever imagined. Yesterday I did 225 lat-pulldowns in between several other shoulder building drills and today shot a half field round with no pain at all. Of course I didn't do the lats all at once but here's what I did do.
120# 25 reps (1 sets of 10 then 1 of 15)
100# 50 reps (2 sets of 15 and 1 of 20)
80# 150 reps (6 sets of 25)

This particular exercise is really helpful. I have no pain while doing it and my shoulder strength and stamina has improved greatly in just a few short weeks. 

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP...3a2ce8o0&w=300&h=284&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

Interesting, I had shoulder surgery on March 1. Did 2.5 months of physical therapy, had to have a shoulder manipulation done. Its doing pretty good now except I can't hold my bow out away from my body very well, its uncomfortable and shaky. I'm sure its just a strength issue. I have been going to the gym doing shoulder presses with 10 - 20 lbs trying to get some strength back . Sounds like I need to be doing lat pull downs


EPLC said:


> The gym is helping more than I could have ever imagined. Yesterday I did 225 lat-pulldowns in between several other shoulder building drills and today shot a half field round with no pain at all. Of course I didn't do the lats all at once but here's what I did do.
> 120# 25 reps (1 sets of 10 then 1 of 15)
> 100# 50 reps (2 sets of 15 and 1 of 20)
> 80# 150 reps (6 sets of 25)
> ...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Yep, EPLC, I was doing more at home than in therapy. You probably have sheets instructing you how to do things. I did them 2 and 3 times a day. Sometimes I do some exercises until I felt soreness come. This was on most of the stretching exercises. They stitch up things and they get tight and the only way to loosen up that tightness is to stretch and after a while you can stretch more. I liked it when my surgeon said I had more ROM than he did 
I'm shooting and I can shoot as good as ever, but there is still something not as it was. Back tension works and then it doesn't work. It's getting better, but sure seem likes it taking it sweet time at getting better...and then maybe pushing when practicing. My last 3D I don't remember having back tension issues. It was 30 target 3D and I shot a 288/300.

Off subject; Sad thing going on around my area. Down to two clubs posting scores and only one club still giving some type of award. So down to taking pictures of my score card to show I shot at clubs that don't post scores.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Trykon Mike said:


> Interesting, I had shoulder surgery on March 1. Did 2.5 months of physical therapy, had to have a shoulder manipulation done. Its doing pretty good now except I can't hold my bow out away from my body very well, its uncomfortable and shaky. I'm sure its just a strength issue. I have been going to the gym doing shoulder presses with 10 - 20 lbs trying to get some strength back . Sounds like I need to be doing lat pull downs


I was instructed to do "NO" presses. There is one exception as I do a resistance band chest press. This is done standing and pushing straight out. I do no overhead or bench presses. I was also given the advise that if something hurts, don't do it. Most of the shoulder exercises I do are pulling of some sort. I also do curls but keep the weight to 30-40#.

I shot the NE Outdoor Sectional this weekend which included 1 field, 1 hunter and 1/2 animal over two days. Even though I shot poorly (no award this year) my shoulder came through the weekend without any pain. The shoulder simply was not an issue. I can't begin to express how pleased I am with the results I am getting from this workout program.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I've gotten to the point now that I can shoot 98% without pain. The difficulty now is stamina affecting my scores. I'm actually making some of the best shots I've ever executed but I'm having difficulty sustaining them. As fatigue sets in I no longer can relax the bow side and unwanted muscles kick in that tense things up. I'm getting there though as I shot a full field round Saturday, a full hunter on Sunday and another full field today... then went to the gym. I have no injury related pain right now. Still doing many lat pull downs on each visit. Sets of 20 starting at 120# and working my way down to 80# with other exercises in-between sets.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I can't remember if I posted of this little jewel. It's a inexpensive peddle machine, but using it for my shoulders. Kind of cheap, but works. Tighten clamp (center knob) to where it's kind of hard "peddling" and then 1 minute forwards and 1 minute backwards. Me, when I'm through I'm glad, but dang, I feel good after a 1 minute or so. The one my therapist has is electric, push button for resistance. Therapist "graduated" me with a number 4 setting and holding a 75% load forward and backwards. Got to get me one of those. I almost have the clamps wore out on mine.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> I can't remember if I posted of this little jewel. It's a inexpensive peddle machine, but using it for my shoulders. Kind of cheap, but works. Tighten clamp (center knob) to where it's kind of hard "peddling" and then 1 minute forwards and 1 minute backwards. Me, when I'm through I'm glad, but dang, I feel good after a 1 minute or so. The one my therapist has is electric, push button for resistance. Therapist "graduated" me with a number 4 setting and holding a 75% load forward and backwards. Got to get me one of those. I almost have the clamps wore out on mine.


When I was in physical therapy I did my initial warmup with a similar devise. It was a little fancier than yours but the function was the same... including tension adjustment. I think I was doing about 8 minutes forward and backward.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

The end of this month will mark one year since the injury. After rehabbing my bow side shoulder and shooting since last November it's still very frustrating. I'm much stronger and have significantly less pain but it's still impacting my shooting. Very frustrating to say the least. I can make good shots but limited to the number I can execute. Shooting field I really notice this more. Starting out I usually make about 3 decent shots out of 4 but as I shoot the course the ratio of good and bad shots changes. By the end of the half it may be 1-3 or worst. The gym has been a big help but I don't know if this will ever be 100%.
.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

hurt left shoulder in football 40 some years ago,injured both shoulders riding motorcycles and a big crash on a Harley too,worked as a lineman for 35 years climbing poles and that was very hard on shoulders,did injections in shoulders for years ,theraphy too and finally had surgery in left shoulder with a 5 inch cut,shoulder was so bad for micro surgery would not work as well. been shooting bows since 5 or6 tell now at 63 I look back and see just maybe shooting many of those years with a +70 lb. bow was a big mistake and heavy lbs did hurt my shoulders some too,besides my accidents and working as a lineman. so young guys shoot less lbs in archery and take care of those shoulders you don`t need over 50 lbs. for indoors maybe less and for outdoors 50-60 lbs is just fine for hunting , field and 3d target archery.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I've decided on an equipment change for the short term as I may have rushed my poundage and mass weight a little before it's time. I set up my 43# Podium today with a mass weight of 6.7# and it feels like less strain on my body. The mass weight of my TRG's had crept up to almost 8# with draw weights of 50# and 53# for both bows. I can get the TRG's down to 7# but the Podium is just a little lighter. I'll see how it goes as feeling good in the cellar doesn't always translate to the real world.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> I've decided on an equipment change for the short term as I may have rushed my poundage and mass weight a little before it's time. I set up my 43# Podium today with a mass weight of 6.7# and it feels like less strain on my body. The mass weight of my TRG's had crept up to almost 8# with draw weights of 50# and 53# for both bows. I can get the TRG's down to 7# but the Podium is just a little lighter. I'll see how it goes as feeling good in the cellar doesn't always translate to the real world.


Well, that was a bad idea. I'm just going to accept the fact that I'm just not shooting well. While I can still make some good shots, the good shots are the ones that hurt. I believe it's an alignment issue. To pull straight back causes strain on the shoulder after the shot breaks. Very frustrating.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

You know I've got a overhauled shoulder. Well, I still have issues of what I call communication, start back tension and sometimes it quits. So I started using a different firing process using my thumb releases. So far, last couple of days, the different firing process is showing promise. Re-adjusted my TRU Ball ST360 and sort of matched it up with my Stan Shootoff (bought another). Then wrapped tape around the thumb barrel of the ST360 to give it some size close to the Stan. 
Really, just holding full draw with back tension and something of pulling with the middle finger and at times so smooth I don't know I did anything and the arrows goes where I want.

If by scale I have the Shootoff firing at 2 1/2 pounds, just enough I can feel the barrel and not fire. The ST360 holds different and I had to tweak in the poundage, higher, but a smooth as the Stan. Problem is though, the ST360 hook up gives about a quarter inch more on draw length, almost straight arming seems to make up for it, but then not consistent like I want it to be. So the Stan is getting the use for right now.....


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

This coming weekend will mark 1 year since my shoulder crapped out. Now that my shoulder is about 95% or more I'm discovering other issues as a result of my injury. When I started shooting again in mid-November I began with very low poundage and mass weight and a much shortened draw length. As the shoulder gets better I find that my poundage, mass weight and DL has had to increase along with it. I'm currently shooting 53# draw out of a 7.5# bow. My DL has gone from about 27" out to 28 1/8". For most of the summer I've been struggling with my scores (field). Early on I could barely hit 250 on a 14T round. As the shoulder and equipment have evolved I'm shooting a consistent 260 (+/-2) round. I'm having some really good targets but unfortunately mixed with some that are really bad as well. This morning I shot a half round and scored 259... but I shot 7 20's. This should have easily been a 270+ round but I had 3 16's and a 17 as well... 

I've also had to shoot much less this season. Based on my records I've only shot about half as many rounds as in years past. This is changing though as my work at the gym over the past 3 months or so has really helped. I am now capable of shooting at least some every day, although I try to not shoot on workout days.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I just finished the 2 day New England Championship at Lunenburg Sportsman's Club today and my shoulder feels fine. The shoot consists of a full 28T field round and a 14T animal round on Saturday and a full 28T hunter round on Sunday (today). This plus driving back and forth 80 miles each way on both days makes me feel pretty good about my rehab/strength building program. Overall I didn't shoot very well but a strong last half today and a 20 on the last target (48 yarder) gave me a 1 point win in Master Senior FS.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Great shooting Paul


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Shoot my first 3d in almost a year after having surgery on Jan. 4th this year.
I'm still having pain in the shoulder joint and in the surrounding tendons/muscles.
It wasn't rotator cuff surgery, but bandaid surgery in which he severed the bicep, cleaned up some fraying and some arthritis.
Today was a near disaster...lots of fives, a few eights, and a couple tens. And that's shooting 36#.
Not sure where to go next on this crappy odessy.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Congrats, EPLC


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> Shoot my first 3d in almost a year after having surgery on Jan. 4th this year.
> I'm still having pain in the shoulder joint and in the surrounding tendons/muscles.
> It wasn't rotator cuff surgery, but bandaid surgery in which he severed the bicep, cleaned up some fraying and some arthritis.
> Today was a near disaster...lots of fives, a few eights, and a couple tens. And that's shooting 36#.
> Not sure where to go next on this crappy odessy.


It's going to take a while, Chuck. My first time drawing a bow after being released...I didn't think I was going to roll the cams over. My first 3D, I think I shot 12 targets and called it a day.


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## Trykon Mike (Aug 25, 2007)

I had surgery on 3/1/16 , complete tear of rotator cuff and they cut and reattached the bicep tendon. I shot 40 targets yesterday at a 3D shoot , shoulder is a little sore today. A lot better than last month when I tried to shoot 40 targets and had to quit after 30.
I shot ok had 4 8s , but not many 11s , I still feel the strength isn't all there yet but I am shooting for next years 3D season. Going to work hard at it thru the winter


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> It's going to take a while, Chuck. My first time drawing a bow after being released...I didn't think I was going to roll the cams over. My first 3D, I think I shot 12 targets and called it a day.


These things take time to heal. While I didn't have surgery I did have a significant injury to my bow side shoulder. As a result I've worked very hard to rehab the shoulder. You can imagine how good I must feel today after winning the shoot that I couldn't even finish exactly one year ago. While my scores were nothing to write home about I made the shots that counted and came away with not only the win, I came away without any shoulder issues. Hey, I even shot another full 28T round today at the club. I am tired though


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Glad you're making headway, EPLC. Using a different manner of shooting with tips from Kent Stigall made a difference this last weekend. I didn't get tired and no "wild firing" from whatever it is in my shoulder. Confidence went up as I shot and I went after 12s I normally had been passing on. Scared a bunch of 12s and got some. Club President said I was in the lead after the first day. Won't know until scores are posted and really don't care. I just plain felt good for the first time all year.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I can honestly say that my shoulder is almost 100%. The exercise program I've been doing is really paying off. I think the only pain I'm having now (or at least 99%) is muscular from the workouts. Barring any setbacks I'm looking forward to this indoor season.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Ordered a Diamond IE Pro. Gonna set the poundage down real low and see if I can work my way back to a decent weight.

After I'm done with it there's grandkids waiting in line to shoot.

How can I go wrong?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm shooting better and sometimes as good as ever, but.... Saw the surgeon because the stupid glitch and some pains. So along with a left bicep rupture I have a right bicep rupture which far less, but I know it when stress it. My left bicep burns like fire when stressed and there's nothing they can do for ruptured biceps. I find it damned hard to believe. I may have some kind of a tear in the back of my left shoulder, but that I have full movement the surgeon believes it's in a healing process. Okay, no pain when shooting, but afterwards it burns some....

Still, I have another decent day shooting 3D yesterday. 300 possible for 30 targets and I got 287 of them. Not bad considering this tiny black squirrel thing in a black hole I guessed at and got a 5 and I had a rest failure, spring tension wouldn't pick arrow up, so I had to adjust it. This is the second time I've had a Limb Driver do this....


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## SpecialKaye (Sep 10, 2015)

carlosii said:


> Ordered a Diamond IE Pro. Gonna set the poundage down real low and see if I can work my way back to a decent weight.
> 
> After I'm done with it there's grandkids waiting in line to shoot.
> 
> How can I go wrong?


Subscribed.
My wife loves archery but has a very bad bow arm shoulder. I'm looking at getting a very low draw weight bow and a shooting stick just to give her something to mess with.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

carlosii said:


> Ordered a Diamond IE Pro. Gonna set the poundage down real low and see if I can work my way back to a decent weight.
> 
> After I'm done with it there's grandkids waiting in line to shoot.
> 
> How can I go wrong?





SpecialKaye said:


> Subscribed.
> My wife loves archery but has a very bad bow arm shoulder. I'm looking at getting a very low draw weight bow and a shooting stick just to give her something to mess with.


My process was very similar to these. I started out with a 15# Genesis then gradually built up to where I am today, a year later. My current bows range from 45# to 53# but I'm liking those mid-40's even though I have no difficulty with the 53#'s. I shot my first Vegas 300 round today and scored a 291. Dropped a lot of points early on but finished strong. Not too bad considering what I've been through.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Two really helpful exercises I've found are lat pull downs and what I call the dumbbell cross. Currently I'm working with the following weights which have been built up to over several months.

Lat Pull Downs: 
5 sets of 20 starting at 120# and dropping 5# between sets finishing at 100#. I wait 3-4 minutes between sets, drop 5# and then do another 20 reps.

Dumbbell Cross:
20# & 15# dumbbells. 5 sets of 40 with first set 20# and then 4 sets at 15#. Standing upright with arms at side and about 6-8" out I raise one arm at a time across my body and higher than the opposite shoulder. It's kind of like throwing a cross/uppercut in boxing with a dumbbell in each hand. Once again I wait 3-4 minutes between sets.

I do several others as well such as curls, rowing, etc. but these two seem to really help the shoulder. Just remember that I worked myself up to the 120-100# for the pull-downs.

When I started this training program I could not do a chin-up. Now I can do several. Since I'm going to be 71 in November this should be encouragement to anyone suffering an injury, regardless of their age.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Two really helpful exercises I've found are lat pull downs and what I call the dumbbell cross. Currently I'm working with the following weights which have been built up to over several months.
> 
> Lat Pull Downs:
> 5 sets of 20 starting at 120# and dropping 5# between sets finishing at 100#. I wait 3-4 minutes between sets, drop 5# and then do another 20 reps.
> ...


Since posting this I've gradually raised the weights I'm working with. My shoulder is no longer an issue. 
Lat Pull Downs: 6 sets of 20 starting at 150# dropping 10# between sets
Dumbbell Cross: 4 sets of 50 working with 20# for all sets.
Chin Ups: Sets of 5
Btw, I turn 71 this Monday &#55357;&#56842;


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

Fell unloading bows out the back of a Truck at the IBO in Pipestem in April of 2015. Complete rotator cuff tear.Had surgery in May. starting shooting 40# while in Florida for the winter. Started thinking my Supra with Me cams was a bit tuff on things. Started trying different bows out in April when I got back home and found the Elite Victory 37 to work great for me with almost no pain. Shot it all summer and I steadily improved as my strenght and hold started to come back. It's been 1 1/2 years now and I would say I am shooting as good as I use to with zero pain. looking forward to a good 2017. It takes a 1 1/2 to get back and thats with P.T. and me joining a gym and working out. The Elite Victory 37 is really easy on my shoulder. I got the Supra back out and shot about 50 shots and felt a sore shoulder---sold it. Looking forward to my snobird trip to Florida in January and shooting a bunch of field and 3d for 3 months. I am 66 so it can be done, it just takes time.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

draw29 said:


> Fell unloading bows out the back of a Truck at the IBO in Pipestem in April of 2015. Complete rotator cuff tear.Had surgery in May. starting shooting 40# while in Florida for the winter. Started thinking my Supra with Me cams was a bit tuff on things. Started trying different bows out in April when I got back home and found the Elite Victory 37 to work great for me with almost no pain. Shot it all summer and I steadily improved as my strenght and hold started to come back. It's been 1 1/2 years now and I would say I am shooting as good as I use to with zero pain. looking forward to a good 2017. It takes a 1 1/2 to get back and thats with P.T. and me joining a gym and working out. The Elite Victory 37 is really easy on my shoulder. I got the Supra back out and shot about 50 shots and felt a sore shoulder---sold it. Looking forward to my snobird trip to Florida in January and shooting a bunch of field and 3d for 3 months. I am 66 so it can be done, it just takes time.


I'm happy for you, and congrats on the work you've put in. It can be done but it takes a lot of time and effort. 
Unfortunately my scores haven't come back yet. I'm not sure what is up with that. My shoulder is fine, I'm stronger than I've been in years but my hold just hasn't recovered along with the shoulder. I keep working on it.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

EPLC said:


> Since posting this I've gradually raised the weights I'm working with. My shoulder is no longer an issue.
> Lat Pull Downs: 6 sets of 20 starting at 150# dropping 10# between sets
> Dumbbell Cross: 4 sets of 50 working with 20# for all sets.
> Chin Ups: Sets of 5
> Btw, I turn 71 this Monday ��


You are an animal!! :clap2::clap2::clap2:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm able to shoot 15 or so arrows before I start having difficulty drawing. Pain is in the area of my arm between the shoulder and the elbow. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the surgeon clipped the bicep. :thumbs_do


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

carlosii said:


> I'm able to shoot 15 or so arrows before I start having difficulty drawing. Pain is in the area of my arm between the shoulder and the elbow. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the surgeon clipped the bicep. :thumbs_do


How many pounds are you pulling? Also, would switching hands be possible?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

EPLC said:


> How many pounds are you pulling? Also, would switching hands be possible?


Only pulling 35 pounds on the Diamond. It is, of course, a bow with an easy draw and gentle break over.
With the bicep issues I really doubt switching would be possible.
Thanks for your comment.


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

The original posts of his three got me to go see an orthopedic shoulder specialist and a neurologist. Saved my life. Neurologist found a huge aneurism on my aorta 8 inches below my heart. Shoulder specialist said both shoulders are a mess though no structural damage of concern. Get my steroid injection ever 6 month in both shoulders. Had aneurysm repaired bad in June. Now just trying to hold neurosurgeon off until march so I can shot Foley and recover while everyone shoots Texas. The new old guy known class gives me hope. Was wondering I they're going to have little blue handicap stakes for us to shoot at. 61 going on 16.


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Autocorrect is killing me.


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