# Recurve vs. Longbow



## bradbow (Dec 3, 2009)

I was just wondering what you perfer? And why.


----------



## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

You forgot Hybrid, the in between recurve - longbow. Calling a 60 inch bow a longbow is kind of silly so I prefer to call them by what they really are, Hybrids. For pure shooting fun, I love my new Morrison Cheyenne Hybrid, for in your face accuracy I love my Dale Dye Trails End recurve. It comes down to this to me. Does the bow entice you to pick it up and shoot, and after shooting it is there a wicked smile on your face.


----------



## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

My reasons for sticking with reflex/deflex longbows is probably silly but its just me. I switched back to trad and I feel the longbow was my best choice. I think it is a bit more forgiving than the recurve and I have really enjoyed shooting it. I will probably over time have some recurve limbs made for my take downs just to try them, but right now its longbows for me.


----------



## cmalone1 (Nov 12, 2008)

I have only shot recurves so that's what i'm sticking with for right now...i shot a byron ferguson patriot by bear at bass pro but wasn't too impressed with it!! It stacked rediculously!! do all long bows stack hard? i am thinking about ordering a long bow from bill once my recurve gets here!! :teeth:


----------



## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

From what I have seen from the few Hybrid bows I have is that they are stack free and to me at least feel smoother to draw than even my best recurves.


----------



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

bradbow said:


> I was just wondering what you perfer? And why.


I like curves so I naturally like recurves better :wink:

Ray :wink:


----------



## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

A long draw length dictates much and usually trumps any preference I might have. When I’m not hunting, I might shoot the longbow 20% of the time. Come fall, my orientation focuses on what I’ll be carrying into the woods, so I only shoot the longbow indoors, at home, when it starts to whine.

Recurve lets me shoot shorter bows, which affords me some adaptability. I can carry a 60” or less more easily through heavy cover and then 64” when the plan calls for less movement. 

Apart from the hunting scenario, bows are just instrumental in helping me launch arrows. What I prefer is feathers on my darts. Rick.


----------



## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I switch back and forth, but if I had to pick one bow from my current collection it would be my Thomahawk desert fox longbow. (using the definition that a longbow string is never in contact with the inside of the limb)


----------



## cmalone1 (Nov 12, 2008)

so when everyone refers to hybrids what exactly are they talking about? is it a longbow by definition of not touching the limbs but shorter then 62 inches? If this is true whats the normal length of a LONG bow?


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

BLACK WOLF said:


> I like curves so I naturally like recurves better :wink:
> 
> Ray :wink:


That was "insightful".... :grin:

Aloha...  :beer:


----------



## Perceval (Nov 25, 2008)

cmalone1 said:


> so when everyone refers to hybrids what exactly are they talking about? is it a longbow by definition of not touching the limbs but shorter then 62 inches? If this is true whats the normal length of a LONG bow?


the normal lenght of a longbow assuming we are refering to the english war longbow is 72" , the one that were found on the Marie rose ship were in that range ......and 130# to 140# @ 30" ( anchoring behind the ears ) 
Howard Hill , schulz longbows are usually 68"to70" long .


----------



## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

60" or 66" = 10% change in length. I don't consider that much of a change. Just so my life gets no more complicated than it is I'll stick with the string contact difference no matter how long or short the bow.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

cmalone1 said:


> I have only shot recurves so that's what i'm sticking with for right now...i shot a byron ferguson patriot by bear at bass pro but wasn't too impressed with it!! It stacked rediculously!! do all long bows stack hard? i am thinking about ordering a long bow from bill once my recurve gets here!! :teeth:


Longbows rarely stack- you were most likely just overbowed.

Same with definition- a longbow has no string contact at brace. A "hybrid" has reflex on the outter limbs that pulls out. Refered to as "flipped tips" by wooden bowyers.

Me, I prefer the longbow. The handle, the simplicity, the ease of construction. In terms of wooden, natural material bows, longbows have recurves beat almost every time. Not true with fiberglass, but I don't build with fiberglass.


----------



## sj_lutz (Feb 25, 2005)

I like them both.

My preference is a '50's style recurve; a longbow type riser with recurve limbs. Bows longer than 62 inches or so feel too long to me, and I'm not a huge fan of the big raisered recurves all that much.


----------



## shikari74 (Dec 2, 2009)

I prefer short asiatic recurves,last one I built is 49"ntn shoots smooth and no handshock,the shorter length allows for more menuverability in the bush and I can draw it to 32",the next couple I am making are going to be below 48" with 30" draw.


----------



## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

Bows are a lot like women: the curves and the shapes vary, the height and the coloring, smoothness versus snap, forgiving or not so much. Some guys make choices that are hard to understand. It is best to play the field and dance with as many as you can. Eventually your choice will become clear to you, perhaps in the middle of the night! - lbg


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

longbowguy said:


> Bows are a lot like women: the curves and the shapes vary, the height and the coloring, smoothness versus snap, forgiving or not so much. Some guys make choices that are hard to understand. It is best to play the field and dance with as many as you can. Eventually your choice will become clear to you, perhaps in the middle of the night! - lbg


That's terrific, I love it!


----------



## Flying Dutchman (Aug 7, 2008)

Hmmmm, I love it too.... However, I must confess that I danced with a lot of women before I got married, but my longbow and me..... that was love at first sight....:firefoxlove:


----------



## Silent Bear (Nov 27, 2009)

Short recurve


----------



## e-manhunt (Sep 14, 2004)

i feel my longbow is more forgiving and I do shoot well with it. but the recurve is smoother -- less stacking and no hand shock, which i find in the longobw.


----------



## elk country rp (Sep 5, 2005)

i have a couple recurves that i love (horsebows), but in general there's just something about longbows that i can't get enough of


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

LongStick64 said:


> From what I have seen from the few Hybrid bows I have is that they are stack free and to me at least feel smoother to draw than even my best recurves.


Hybrids are not by design stack free by any means. However, both of mine are a delight to shoot. Your draw length, in my opinion, is what is going to determine whether or not you experience "stacking" which in my interpretation is where the limbs start resisting the draw. A drawing board or tillering board/table with a scale would probably give you a more complete picture of the draw, but there is that point that you can feel it, the boards will let you see it.

Both my Bamboo Viper and the 21st Century Nova I have, are smooth bows. The Viper is right on the verge of stack at my draw length, 30-31" depending on whether "mother" is around to make me stand up straight or not.... :grin:

Aloha... Tom  :beer:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I can't even count how many times I've heard the term "stack" used with longbows. I've only had one of my straight bows stack and it was a short 62". That's not a longbow. A real longbow won't stack unless you're overbowed, in which case it isn't stack.

Sorry, had to rant.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

kegan said:


> I can't even count how many times I've heard the term "stack" used with longbows. I've only had one of my straight bows stack and it was a short 62". That's not a longbow. A real longbow won't stack unless you're overbowed, in which case it isn't stack.
> 
> Sorry, had to rant.


Yes, "real" longbows can stack kegan. I own several  The stacking is especially noticeable when I switch from my FITA Recurve back to either of my English longbows. "Stacking" is relative, though, and some people notice it more than others. And the only way to objectively discuss the issue is for you to provide Draw Force Curves. A bow that doesn't stack will have a linear draw force curve at the draw length of the archer.

Here is an example of a bow that doesn't stack, the new Hoyt Formula RX, as charted by whiz-Oz:








And those are the **short** limbs.

A bow that stacks will have a noticeable shoulder or upturn in the draw force curve before or at the archer's draw length.

Have you ever charted your bows kegan? You don't need a fancy Easton bow force mapper, just an accurate scale and a ruler of some sort, and chart the draw weight in one inch increments.


----------



## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

Why wouldn't/couldn't a 60" bow be considered a longbow? It could be a 'Hill Style' bow except just a little bit shorter. When I hear the term 'Hybrid', I think of my ACS-CX. The string does not touch the limbs when it's strung but it still ain't a true longbow. But it's definitely not a recurce either.



cmalone1 said:


> so when everyone refers to hybrids what exactly are they talking about?


They are talking about this.

Not my ACS-CX


----------



## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

I like longbows. They shoot so much quieter than most recurves but I'm going with a 3 piece for more stability.


----------



## I'm Not Ted (Feb 12, 2009)

I like em both for diff. reasons. My recurve is fast, short, and feels nice in my hand. My longbow has a slim riser, is extremly light, just as fast for less draw weight (I think it's cause it's bamboo), and extrmemly smooth on the draw. To me, they are two different animal. Ones like your favorite dog that has been faithful and you love very much. The other is like a fluffy cat that you just wanna shoot... I mean squeeze.


----------



## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

I like both. The "longbows" seem easier to get whisper quiet, especially w Dacron strings. 

Definitions; we all got 'em?

My Martin Savannahs are what? They aren't a longbow, recurve, or compound... a reflex/deflex hybrid American flatbow?

I know they really ain't, but I call 'em "longbows" anyway.

I've got an old bow from the 50s/60s (maker unknown)... riser is short and narrow, limbs are rectangular in cross section, wide and flat, have some R/D and the tips curve way in front of the grip when unstrung. With a 56-57 inch string, it braces at 7-8 inches and is fast, smooth and quiet w no hand shock. When strung, the string contacts the limbs and lays just right in the grooves, but the tips barely recurve at all.

IIRC, we used to call that semi-recurved. What do we call it these days? :wink:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Warbow- good point, I guess I should have said any _good_ longbow won't stack. Proper design and bow length will yield a smooth even gain at the end of the draw. I was speaking of mapped stack, not just percieved. I've been told several of my bows "stack", but in truth they were just heavier than the person was used to, or the person just shot a compound before and had no idea what to call the strange sensation of having to hold the full weight of a bow at full draw. 

I've never made an actual chart, but when I finish breaking in a bow and weigh it I take special care to note the weight increase at the end of the draw. The short hickory I mentioned had a definite upwards curve- limp at the start of the draw, spiking to the final 60# weight at the end (I should probabaly go back and recurve the thing). Happily, all the rest of my bows were at 3# per inch. Between design and careful tillering, I've avoided stack in my longbows (actually flatbows).

As for the different names of bows, it's too convaluded to count. I call them whatever they look like they should be called.


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Warbow said:


> Yes, "real" longbows can stack kegan. I own several  The stacking is especially noticeable when I switch from my FITA Recurve back to either of my English longbows. "Stacking" is relative, though, and some people notice it more than others. And the only way to objectively discuss the issue is for you to provide Draw Force Curves. A bow that doesn't stack will have a linear draw force curve at the draw length of the archer.
> 
> Here is an example of a bow that doesn't stack, the new Hoyt Formula RX, as charted by whiz-Oz:
> 
> ...


That is exactly what I was tryin to say.... 

Aloha... Tom :beer:


----------



## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Stacking to me occurs when the 2-3 lb per inch draw starts progresses to 3-4 to 4-5 lb per inch. With my Hybrid's I find the progression at a slower rate, hence I "think" they are smoother or stack free. 

I am curious about the difference in limb and or riser length would have on the draw curve. Would a longer riser/shorter limb perform and different on the draw curve compared to a shorter riser/longer limb, given both bows are equal in length and weight.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Things that I know to cause stack so far:

Working tips (whip tiller)
Short overal length without stiff/recurve tips
Limbs too thick for the given length
Deflex

Basically, anything that is working against energy storage.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

LongStick64 said:


> Stacking to me occurs when the 2-3 lb per inch draw starts progresses to 3-4 to 4-5 lb per inch. With my Hybrid's I find the progression at a slower rate, hence I "think" they are smoother or stack free.
> 
> I am curious about the difference in limb and or riser length would have on the draw curve. Would a longer riser/shorter limb perform and different on the draw curve compared to a shorter riser/longer limb, given both bows are equal in length and weight.


Longer limbs = less stacking, if all else is equal. But, you may loose some cast, or efficiency by shooting long limbs.

Recurve bows are inherently smoother. The recurve allows the string angle to stay more consistent through more of the draw range than a long bow does, until the point that the string lifts off from touching the limb, at which point the bow draws like a long bow. Now, that doesn't mean longbows can't be smooth. My ACS is very smooth. But geometry is geometry.

Illustrations from "On the mechanics of the modern working-recurve bow" demonstrate the principle.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Warbow- What do you mean by the recurves are "inherently smoother"? Same force draw curve, I wouldn't think the recurves would play a role? I have to find it, but I made a working recurve a few months ago that drew the same as one of my longbows, an almost straight FD curve- didn't seem to draw any smoother than a 45# bamboo backed red oak I'd finished a little while ago. Different recurves than most fiberglass lam bows though, so now I'm curious.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

kegan said:


> Warbow- What do you mean by the recurves are "inherently smoother"? Same force draw curve, I wouldn't think the recurves would play a role? I have to find it, but I made a working recurve a few months ago that drew the same as one of my longbows, an almost straight FD curve- didn't seem to draw any smoother than a 45# bamboo backed red oak I'd finished a little while ago. Different recurves than most fiberglass lam bows though, so now I'm curious.


It has to do with mechanical advantage. The **geometry** of a recurve gives mechanical leverage that a long bow doesn't have. 

Sid, of Borderbows notes that smoothness is dependent on the string angle off the tips through the draw:



> Longbows loose there string angles from the very first inch, (flatbows here in the UK) Hybrid bows help defend the string angles by pointing more forward/upright at brace height. Whippy tipped bows loose this string angle early. and stack early as a result. the next logical progresion is a mild recurve, which holds its string angles till even further than a hybrid bow, again feeling smoother... so why not have super recurves??? there are examples of (in relative terms) whippy tipped ILF limbs, these just like simple longbows stack early.
> Long draws want limbs that defend the string angles, its that simple. Find one and you will have a smooth feeling bow (within reason, the bow needs to be well designed too, lol)


The geometry of recurves makes them inherently smoother than a longbow, all other things being equal. And "smoother" means they have a more linear draw force curve around full draw than an otherwise equivalent longbow. But, it sounds like you are making some darn good longbows, and I, too, wonder how they compare to recurves.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Or I just build really bad recurves!

If I'm getting this right, then I'm not confused. You're saying that the recurves, with their trade mark "hump" of early draw weight, makes their gained weight at the end of the draw a more horizontal line? Which would make sense because the "backwards bend" of the limb profile stores that butt-load of extra energy, making the final FD curve staighter. Thinking about the shorter bows that needed recurves to be anywhere near decent, those bows jsut didn't store enough energy and that's why the recurves helped- they got more limb working in the right direction to store extra energy.

Which is ALSO why _my_ recurve wasn't extra smooth, because the inner deflex caused from absuing the wood didn't store a great deal of energy


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

kegan said:


> Or I just build really bad recurves!
> 
> If I'm getting this right, then I'm not confused. You're saying that the recurves, with their trade mark "hump" of early draw weight, makes their gained weight at the end of the draw a more horizontal line? Which would make sense because the "backwards bend" of the limb profile stores that butt-load of extra energy, making the final FD curve staighter. Thinking about the shorter bows that needed recurves to be anywhere near decent, those bows jsut didn't store enough energy and that's why the recurves helped- they got more limb working in the right direction to store extra energy.
> 
> Which is ALSO why _my_ recurve wasn't extra smooth, because the inner deflex caused from absuing the wood didn't store a great deal of energy


Think **leverage**, not just pre-load. Remember that even a static recurve horse bow (where the recurve doesn't bend or unbend in use) has a mechanical advantage. But, I'm sooooo not an expert on bow design. You'll need to get the finer points from somebody who is, and that just isn't me


----------



## FeatherFlinger (Dec 18, 2009)

So which would be better for hunting? a recurve or Long bow? Ive been researching/looking at pics of traditional harvests and noticed there were a lot more posts with longbows than recurves?
I do love the look of a recurve though


----------



## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

The one you can shoot the most accurately is the one you should take hunting.

Much Aloha...


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Leverage alone will yeild a smooth draw, I know, but not the plump FD curve. I recently had a building "epiphany", and began making a point to keep my longbow tips stiff and light. Suddenly my bows became more efficient! But they defiantely didn't have that extra energy storage. I also began using heat and flip them (semi recurves if you want to cal them... either way, just flipped into some reflex) and that reflex fattened the stored energy (a 55# bow felt "springier" during stringing).

I have photos of a bow I finished for the bow swap that shoots quite smooth (semi recurve or R/D, whatever you'd like to call it). The reflex stored the little bit of extra energy but mostly have long stiff outer limbs for smooth draw and a straight shot.

As for which is better under hunting conditions, that's up the the archer. Longbows can be shot with the heel down, which isn't the best for consistency on targets, makes it easier for close range hunting shots (especially when it's cold).


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

kegan said:


> Leverage alone will yeild a smooth draw, I know, but not the plump FD curve. I recently had a building "epiphany", and began making a point to keep my longbow tips stiff and light. Suddenly my bows became more efficient! But they defiantely didn't have that extra energy storage. I also began using heat and flip them (semi recurves if you want to cal them... either way, just flipped into some reflex) and that reflex fattened the stored energy (a 55# bow felt "springier" during stringing).
> 
> I have photos of a bow I finished for the bow swap that shoots quite smooth (semi recurve or R/D, whatever you'd like to call it). The reflex stored the little bit of extra energy but mostly have long stiff outer limbs for smooth draw and a straight shot.


I think the leverage works backwards with a recurve. The recurve serves to give _less_ leverage during initial pull and more at the end, so more of the load happens earlier in the draw, with more leverage at the end of the draw for a smoother draw. I think that is what sid meant by a recurve controlling the string to tip angle better than a longbow. But, frankly, I'm really not conversant on this issue yet. :embara:


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Hmm. I think I might be thinking a different form of leverage. Form a building stand point, the long stiff outter limbs do not bend- they are therefore less able to create vibration, which robs a bow of mechanical efficiency. That's why longbows with really round tillers, like Hill bows, aren't very fast and usually have hand shock. The backwards bend of a limb at the tip works like these levers (or at least they force the mid limb to "recede", reducing vibration there) while also making more oft he limb work, storing more energy. 

So if we have a modern straight longbow and a recurve, the recurve would not only store more energy because the limbs are doing more work, but also be more efficient because of the lowered vibration (and lower mass most likely). 

It's in my world of all wooden bows that the differences become more muddled.


----------



## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

You should probably read the patent on "working recurve limbs".


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Why's that?


----------



## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

To read an in-depth explanation of how recurve limbs can be made so as to bend.

Not applicable to all-wood, but interesting.

William


----------



## MIHunter23 (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks, I tried the search but it did not come up with that one for me.


----------

