# IBO stabilizer confusion...



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Don't take my word on this because I'm confused myself. My understanding is that it still has to be a single point of attachment so running a front and a side bar would still be illegal.


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## Beentown (May 14, 2006)

goofy2788 said:


> Don't take my word on this because I'm confused myself. My understanding is that it still has to be a single point of attachment so running a front and a side bar would still be illegal.


That is what I thought also. But the arguement I was given is that something like the B-Stinger Xtreme Hunter Kit I only attached to the bow in one place and fits in the 12" sphere. I still think the type of attachment makes it illegal because of:



> Additional Vbars, counter balances, or weighted attachments are prohibited.


But seems to me that the Doinker DISH and many others would be out because it does have counter balances (side to side).


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## jfuller17 (Jan 28, 2007)

Yes it still has to be a single point of attachment. So the Doinker Tatical and SS1 are legal. But you could not run any more bars on the front. It basically has to be one rod. The Enforcers are legal as long as they pass the 12" radius rule. I talked to Mr. Marcum about a month ago and they are going to use a rod or pc of string to hold on the stabilizer insert on the bow and it will go out 12" and then piviot side to side off the mounting hole. If you are inside of the string its fine. Our 12" bar with 3.5 head and normal weight clears by 1/32" of a inch because we actually make them 11 7/8" to account for a wrist sling. But if you offset the head or add more weight or use the 5" head it wont pass. We came out with a "IBO 11" we call it and that setup is 11" total and will allow customer to run either head and offset it and still be ok. In my opinion very few people will ever have any issues with whatever they use but this is how the rule was told to me right from Marcum. Let me know bud if you have any more questions or need anything and I will do my best to help.


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## Beentown (May 14, 2006)

jfuller17 said:


> Yes it still has to be a single point of attachment. So the Doinker Tatical and SS1 are legal. But you could not run any more bars on the front. It basically has to be one rod. The Enforcers are legal as long as they pass the 12" radius rule. I talked to Mr. Marcum about a month ago and they are going to use a rod or pc of string to hold on the stabilizer insert on the bow and it will go out 12" and then piviot side to side off the mounting hole. If you are inside of the string its fine. Our 12" bar with 3.5 head and normal weight clears by 1/32" of a inch because we actually make them 11 7/8" to account for a wrist sling. But if you offset the head or add more weight or use the 5" head it wont pass. We came out with a "IBO 11" we call it and that setup is 11" total and will allow customer to run either head and offset it and still be ok. In my opinion very few people will ever have any issues with whatever they use but this is how the rule was told to me right from Marcum. Let me know bud if you have any more questions or need anything and I will do my best to help.


Looks like an 11" IBO Pitch Black for me! Thanks Jason.


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## 6rob4 (May 3, 2010)

talked to mr.marcum last week as long as it is inside the 12'' radius and one point of attachment you can have one bar 22'' if you like 11'' foward and 11''backward.these numbers are just for example.


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## labtech8 (Feb 11, 2010)

Looks like the 10" enforcer with 5" head will be under the magical 12" rule.


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

single bar with 1 point of atachment. 12" radius - 24" diameter


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## DCS07flstc (Jun 16, 2011)

One bar that is 22" would not fit into one 12" theoritical sphere as the IBO rules states.


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

DCS07flstc said:


> One bar that is 22" would not fit into one 12" theoritical sphere as the IBO rules states.


guys your allowed 12" in front and 12" behind point of attachment......a 12" RADIUS = A 24" SPHERE


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I believe they need to be a little clearer with the wording. I think we all understand the one point of attachment side of the rule, but there seems to be confusion over the 12 inch side of it. Rule speaks of the raduis which allows for off sets at different angle then straight out from the bow riser in common form but the rules also speak to no counter balance added, which some could make a case for, having 11/12 inches back from the point of attachment as well as 11/12 inches forward is doing just that.


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## Beentown (May 14, 2006)

smokin'dually said:


> guys your allowed 12" in front and 12" behind point of attachment......a 12" RADIUS = A 24" SPHERE


Nope only one "bar".


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Do not understand how the Doinker Tactical can be legal but then again I'm not looking for subtle loop holes.


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

Beentown said:


> Nope only one "bar".


Yep, ...if it is in the same plane/line it is considerd "one bar"....it has already been stated that tactical stabs are legal..they consist of a piece in front and behind attachment point...


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

In fact , i shot the tactical all last year just in a 12" version....this year ya get 12 more inches (to rear) from attachment


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Well if the Tactical is legal they should rethink the entire "one bar" and "one attachment" point rule. The most common sense thing is to have the back bar and front bar separately attached.... Like on most target bows. I used a 12" back and a 12" front bar this past year hunting but they were attached like you typically see them attached.


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## bfelver (May 13, 2012)

i have read the rule several time one point attachment must be in a 12 circle it say nothing about must being a signal bar


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## Beentown (May 14, 2006)

bfelver said:


> i have read the rule several time one point attachment must be in a 12 circle *it say nothing about must being a signal bar*


*Only one stabilizer* having a single point of attachment may be used. The stabilizer can be any 
shape or configuration as long as it is contained within a theoretical sphere having a 
radius of 12 inches measured from the point of attachment. Additional Vbars, counter 
balances, or weighted attachments are prohibited. (For the purposes of this rule, any device 
adding length or weight to the stabilizer shall be considered part of the stabilizer and shall 
be subject to the 12-inch rule.)


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## Thermodude (Dec 15, 2011)

Beentown said:


> *Only one stabilizer* having a single point of attachment may be used. The stabilizer can be any
> shape or configuration as long as it is contained within a theoretical sphere having a
> radius of 12 inches measured from the point of attachment. Additional Vbars, counter
> balances, or weighted attachments are prohibited. (For the purposes of this rule, any device
> ...


So according to the rules this isnt leagal?


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

Thermodude said:


> So according to the rules this isnt leagal?
> 
> View attachment 1583072



Any shape or configuration...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Beentown said:


> *Only one stabilizer* having a single point of attachment may be used. The stabilizer can be any
> shape or configuration as long as it is contained within a theoretical sphere having a
> radius of 12 inches measured from the point of attachment. Additional Vbars, counter
> balances, or weighted attachments are prohibited. (For the purposes of this rule, any device
> ...





Thermodude said:


> So according to the rules this isnt leagal?
> 
> View attachment 1583072


IF that is legal then we can run V-bars out the back that are attached between the stabber and the bow as is typical. However, note what I highlighted. In the pic the additional piece attached to the front stabber is a typical side bar. 

The IBO should take a bunch of pics of stabber set ups on bows and publish them as either legal or illegal. The problem is that manufacturers will have a stroke if their setup is deem illegal. My expectation is that they will do nothing and will hide behind the universally used archery org statement, "no one paid for a protest" or "a protest was not filed" or "the protest was not filed in time". The cat's out of the bag, the IBO is going to let the manufacturers determine the class equipment rules.


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

The manufactures are the ones that put pressure on them to get the rule changed in the first place, cause like you say, a stroke was probably comin....not to mention a few less sponsors around..


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## Thermodude (Dec 15, 2011)

Kstigall said:


> IF that is legal then we can run V-bars out the back that are attached between the stabber and the bow as is typical. However, note what I highlighted. In the pic the additional piece attached to the front stabber is a typical side bar.
> 
> The IBO should take a bunch of pics of stabber set ups on bows and publish them as either legal or illegal. The problem is that manufacturers will have a stroke if their setup is deem illegal. My expectation is that they will do nothing and will hide behind the universally used archery org statement, "no one paid for a protest" or "a protest was not filed" or "the protest was not filed in time". The cat's out of the bag, the IBO is going to let the manufacturers determine the class equipment rules.




I agree, the IBO should take pictures or show diagrams of whats within the limits and whats not.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

If you look in the rule book (IBO) pg 13, it has a picture from point of attachment is only 12" circumference, so draw a circle 6" from the point of contact than you have your 12" radius. *So 12' is max, no matter how you spin it*
The manufactures ain't putting no pressure on IBO, they just trying to sell accessories.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Bigjim67 said:


> If you look in the rule book (IBO) pg 13, it has a picture from point of attachment is only 12" circumference, so draw a circle 6" from the point of contact than you have your 12" radius. *So 12' is max, no matter how you spin it*
> The manufactures ain't putting no pressure on IBO, they just trying to sell accessories.


The highlighted text is where you are wrong. Below is copied directly from the rule book:

"Only one stabilizer having a single point of attachment may be used. The stabilizer can be any shape or configuration as long as it is contained within a theoretical sphere having a radius of 12 inches measured from the point of attachment."

A circle with a 12" radius, as per the rule, has a diameter of 24 inches. According to the pic in the rule book then anything goes as long as it is all attached at one point on the bow. We can use back bars, side bars or whatever as long as it all attached say at the front stabber hole and is all with 12 inches of that point.

IBO rules, pic is on page 13 and the first page has the text..... http://www.ibo.net/pdf/2013/IBO_RULES_2013.pdf


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

BUT then I read, "Additional Vbars, counter balances, or weighted attachments are prohibited"........... It is about as clear mud!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

For the purposes of figuring out what is and isn't legal in IBO Hunter and AHC......

Right or wrong?

Everything within 12" of the single attachment point is legal BUT the back weight is illegal. 
View attachment 1583608


This is legal assuming all components of the stabber are with within 12" of the bow. Though this set up could be construed as having counter weights on the front stabber.
View attachment 1583609



This bow has two attachment points and is therefor illegal.
View attachment 1583610


Again 2 attachment point makes this illegal.
View attachment 1583611


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Is this correct?

View attachment 1583619


View attachment 1583620


View attachment 1583622


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## bfelver (May 13, 2012)

Kstigall spot on with ur post i feal the same way with ur pics ibo wrote the rules i cant help they were not very clear on what they wanted , This will be a learning lesson for them


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## grizz35 (May 1, 2011)

ok...so an SS1 and a 10 inch Stokerized together connected at the front with the ss1 going to back is Legal for Bowhunters division?


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

Got word this weekend from vp that a single sidebar attached at the main is legal.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I have talked to them at the home office twice trying to get it clearer in my mind. 

Here is the responce I got back in the second e mail, I hope it helps...

"Since I have described the rule the best way that I could, maybe I could tell you how we intend on enforcing the rule to help clear things up. We are going to have a small diameter rod 12" long at each check point. We will take this rod and place one end at the point where the stabilizer system attaches to the bow and then rotate that rod to the longest points of the stabilizer system. If the rod is as long or longer than any part of the stabilizer system, then it is legal. If any part of the stabilizer system extends beyond the rod, it is not legal.

The rule is very simple so don't try to read too much into it. It doesn't matter what direction it is, or how many attachments it has, or what the total length of any component is, as long as the stabilizer system is no longer than that 12" measuring tool when it is checked from the point where it attaches to the bow, then it is legal. It can extend out from that point of attachment in multiple directions as long as it is no longer than 12" in any of those directions."

So I think I have a clearer view


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Sounds like V-bars and multiple attachments are now legal....


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## BROX (Sep 29, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> Is this correct?
> 
> View attachment 1583619
> 
> ...


I'm taking it as non of these are legal only something that can go toward and backward from one attaching point


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## BROX (Sep 29, 2005)

goofy2788 said:


> Sounds like V-bars and multiple attachments are now legal....


I just read the post above your after i posted my last post


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## Bowtech n ROSS (Aug 30, 2007)

Its crazy they cant read their own rule book. It clearly states ONE rod.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

Clear as mud. How bout this, did anyone shoot a side bar in Alabama this weekend in hc or ahc? What did the IBO say about it in person at the shoot?


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## BrentW (Apr 12, 2008)

Sean243 said:


> Clear as mud. How bout this, did anyone shoot a side bar in Alabama this weekend in hc or ahc? What did the IBO say about it in person at the shoot?


Yes I saw several HC and Ahc shooters with back bars that were not all one stabilizer in Alabama. Several of us had dinner with the IBO VP and a big discussion about this issue. Side bars are aloud from ONE attachment. 12 inch in front and 12 inch in back. 
So basically ahc and HC shooters can have bows look like an open class set up as long as its a 12 inch radius from one attachment.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

Than Pictures are need posted from an IBO rep.


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## BigBore56 (Mar 30, 2009)

Our clubs would not allow a second stabilizer to the rear. Only a SINGLE rod is allowed.


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## 3Dassassin (Apr 18, 2012)

i was just told today,that HC and AHC classes can use side bars or v-bars now.they just have to have one attachment point to the bow itself,they also said they will take a piece of rope or a small rod (as stated a few time in the thread) and check the distance from the stabilizer hole on the bow. so you will have 12 inches all the way around the bow. so basically you will have 24 inches you can use (12 in front and 12 on back)


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

Well, I know there are guys that use a set up like that to hunt but it's got to be an extremely small percentage. I wish they would of left the rule alone or made that set up legal for ahc but not hc. It's not like I'm not going to go with a side bar now, I'm going to shoot what my competition is shooting. It's just that it's supposed to be an entry level class and now it's even further away from that then it was, from an equipment stand point anyhow.


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## buck_up_inohio (Dec 14, 2010)

No v bars allowed. It has to be in a straight line from the attachment look at the doinker tactical


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## BrentW (Apr 12, 2008)

buck_up_inohio said:


> No v bars allowed. It has to be in a straight line from the attachment look at the doinker tactical
> View attachment 1605941
> View attachment 1605941


We talked to the "horses mouth"....direct word from the IBO VP and President....6 of us had a meeting with the VP and actually ready aloud the rule book to him! He said its NOT worded correctly, and then we took a step more than that....the 6 of us showed him bars and V bars and did an on site illustration what was legal.....so he confirmed over and over that V bars are aloud from ONE attachment on the bow. 12 inch raduis around the bow FROM the one point of attachment....period.
There were multiple HC and AHC shooters in Alabama that had v-bar set up.


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## ohiohunter02 (Mar 23, 2005)

buck_up_inohio said:


> No v bars allowed. It has to be in a straight line from the attachment look at the doinker tactical
> View attachment 1605941
> View attachment 1605941


That's not so. I emailed IBO about this last night and Bryan Marcum emailed me back today on the setups in question. 
All of these are legal..



















This is what he sent back to me:

" Joe,

I have looked at the examples you attached and as far as I can tell these are legal set-ups, as long as they are no longer than 12" from a single point of attachment. In other words, the basic configuration of each example is now legal for all hunter classes.

If you need further clarification, feel free to email or call.

Have a good day,

Bryan J. Marcum 
IBO President "

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## deer down (Feb 23, 2007)

what a game changer, looks like i need to order some bars


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## perdieu2011 (May 16, 2011)

k stigall is correct with their posts....i shot Alabama this weeend and that is exactly how the vice president of ibo explained it to us!


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## kilerhamilton (Jul 19, 2010)

silly to me. shoot what works. its the Indian not the bow.


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## buck_up_inohio (Dec 14, 2010)

works for me cool. thanks for info it was confusing


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## TNG_Outdoors (Jan 23, 2013)

So you cant have a stabilizer that is over 12 inches in ANY class? i have a 21 inch x ring stabilizer and i dont use v bars i just use the front half... is this legal?


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## TNG_Outdoors (Jan 23, 2013)

I have a 21 inch x ring stabilizer, i dont use v bars because its just a rod no weights... is this still legal?


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## cnmodaw (Aug 3, 2008)

TNG_Outdoors said:


> I have a 21 inch x ring stabilizer, i dont use v bars because its just a rod no weights... is this still legal?


Well this thread has been focussing on just Hunter class and Advanced hunter class stabilizer rules. If you are in any MBR or above with no stabilizer restrictions then you can use the 21" stabilizer. But in HC and AHC it can only extend 12" from the single point of attachment, in any direction.

So if you are in HC or AHC then you cannot use the 21" stabilizer unless it is attached off to the side like a stokerized stabilizer and extends 12" to the front and 9" to the back.


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## perdieu2011 (May 16, 2011)

BrentW said:


> We talked to the "horses mouth"....direct word from the IBO VP and President....6 of us had a meeting with the VP and actually ready aloud the rule book to him! He said its NOT worded correctly, and then we took a step more than that....the 6 of us showed him bars and V bars and did an on site illustration what was legal.....so he confirmed over and over that V bars are aloud from ONE attachment on the bow. 12 inch raduis around the bow FROM the one point of attachment....period.
> There were multiple HC and AHC shooters in Alabama that had v-bar set up.


Brent is RIGHT!!! I heard it come out of the IBO VP mouth as well while we were at the Alabama shoot!! So i would expect to see numerous shooters with v bars in HC and AHC at the next shoot!


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## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

Allowing rear stabs and vbars etc in the hunter class is completely ridiculous to me. 
It completely diminishes why the hunter class was created in the first place.
Maybe now they will have to create a new class to distinguish shooters between actual hunters and "target only" hunters.
I know someone will say they also have advanced hunter. True, but they are allowing the ridiculous stabs in hunter and advanced hunter.


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## aljburk (Jan 6, 2007)

sweet...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

irishhacker said:


> Allowing rear stabs and vbars etc in the hunter class is completely ridiculous to me.
> It completely diminishes why the hunter class was created in the first place.
> Maybe now they will have to create a new class to distinguish shooters between actual hunters and "target only" hunters.
> I know someone will say they also have advanced hunter. True, but they are allowing the ridiculous stabs in hunter and advanced hunter.


Last bow season I used a 12" B-Stinger out the front and a 12" B-Stinger out the back with a lot of success. Shooting at live animals is when precision shooting is most important.


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## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

Kstigall said:


> Last bow season I used a 12" B-Stinger out the front and a 12" B-Stinger out the back with a lot of success. Shooting at live animals is when precision shooting is most important.


Thats great, but it is illegal here in Ohio where IBO was born.


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## cnmodaw (Aug 3, 2008)

irishhacker said:


> Thats great, but it is illegal here in Ohio where IBO was born.


Ohio's IBO doesn't follow the National IBO rules?? Or are you talking about hunting laws? Would suck to have to change equipment several times in a season to acommodate different rule for basically the same organization.


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## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

sorry..i should have clarified..
illegal for hunting 

sent from my Linux mobile phone


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## ohiohunter02 (Mar 23, 2005)

irishhacker said:


> sorry..i should have clarified..
> illegal for hunting
> 
> sent from my Linux mobile phone


Where in the rule book does it state this for hunting?

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2


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## Bowtech n ROSS (Aug 30, 2007)

You're crazy. Please show where rules say it's illegal.


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## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

irishhacker said:


> sorry..i should have clarified..
> illegal for hunting
> 
> sent from my Linux mobile phone


Where did you get this info?


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

L.O.L.....The O.D.N.R. now restricts stabilizers on hunting bows???....L.O.L....Seriously, that's one of the most ridiculous things that I've ever read on A.T...L.O.L...........Harperman


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Got mine last week because of this thread


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## 48archer (Mar 19, 2009)

I hope Levi Morgan doesnt hunt in Ohio because im pretty sure i saw him using side bars on his hunting rig. Somebody better contact him and let him know. LMAO!


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## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

looked it up..guess Im wrong..

i swear there used to be a restriction though

sent from my Linux mobile phone


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

let me get this straight... if I use a 12" stab where the center of the weight is at 12" from the riser, as I have the last bunch of years, the diameter of the weight is going to make it illegal? e.g B-Stinger, Carbon Blade, etc..


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## perdieu2011 (May 16, 2011)

correct..........has to be 12" to the sides of the weight from the point of attachment.......


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

wpk said:


> View attachment 1612422
> 
> Got mine last week because of this thread


My new Dead Center stabilizer set up should be in my hands in a few days. It's more or less going to be set up like what you have on your hoyt. I feel pretty confident from what I have heard and seen posted in this thread that I will not have any issues at any of the national level IBO shoots. I am however concerned about running into snags at the PA state ibo indoor championship at the end of the month. I'm hoping the state level guys are up to speed on the IBO's current stance on HC and AHC stabilizer regulations.


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

perdieu2011 said:


> correct..........has to be 12" to the sides of the weight from the point of attachment.......


these guys are friggin idiots. whats the point of confusing something so simple? Even a basic 12" stab wont work since the shaft will stick out beyond the arc.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

irishhacker said:


> sorry..i should have clarified..
> illegal for hunting
> 
> sent from my Linux mobile phone


:bs: and I don't even hunt or know the regs for that state!! You better read the regs for your state before heading to the woods.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Kstigall said:


> :bs: and I don't even hunt or know the regs for that state!! You better read the regs for your state before heading to the woods.


Kstigall...I live in Ohio, and there is NO SUCH RULE in the book.....And I CANNOT stop staring at Your Avatar............Harperman


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## irishhacker (Sep 4, 2011)

Harperman said:


> Kstigall...I live in Ohio, and there is NO SUCH RULE in the book.....And I CANNOT stop staring at Your Avatar............Harperman


Lets keep beating a dead horse..
I already said I was wrong


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