# Cheaters why?



## Meleagris1 (Jan 8, 2003)

tjandy said:


> Last night I shot league, typcially shoot on Wednesdays, the place was packed. There was this mouth in front of us, just shooting like crap. Anyways this guy is yackin all night about his various accomplishments. Then he states how he shot a 220 a week ago, 240 is max. This guy was lucky to shoot a 160 last night. The course was basically the same as the week prior. My buddy and I shoot truely because we enjoy shooting and it gets us out of the house, but thats kind of crap is a little ridiculous. Are you guys finding that you have some cheaters? I know a couple years ago, the league told a couple guys that they needed to have a walk along because they suspected something. The team avoided it until the shoot off and the other team just smoked them. I don't think they even shoot at our club anymore.
> Sorry just had to vent, I truely despise cheaters.



That is one major reason why I don't shoot competitive 3D anymore. That and the fact I want to practice archery, not yardage estimation. If you want to test your archery skills, the best place to do it is Field archery, FITA or Indoor. I have never seen a cheating problem at any of these tourneys. Now I just shoot local 3D to practice for hunting season, and rarely keep score. When I want to compete, I shoot target archery, like this weekend at the NY state NAA FITA championship.


----------



## JUMPMAN (Jun 5, 2005)

Double scoring along with flighting everyone goes a long way, kinda hard to cheat that way...


----------



## JAG (May 23, 2006)

tjandy said:


> I truely despise cheaters.


Ditto


----------



## 3dmama (Sep 25, 2002)

Theres always going to be some cheatin at local levels....I dont understand it myself. I shoot locally to practice for National Events. It would be very difficult to cheat at an ASA tournament. They put you in a group of your peers and 2 people call arrows and 2 others score. All I can say is when and if a local cheater goes to a national event....they are in for a rude awakening:wink:


----------



## tjandy (Jun 10, 2005)

It just doesn't make any sense to me. The club members know who can shoot and who cant. Its not like they are pulling the wool over, I wouldn't think. It's just silly and wrecks it for the rest.


----------



## bsu_beginner (Feb 14, 2005)

people take themselves and what they do too seriously. Its a game. Imagine, if they are cheating at a game, think about what else they are cheating at in real life.


----------



## bengapple (Mar 27, 2006)

*Cheaters*

Ditto what the wild turkey (Meleagris) said.

I don't know about anyone else but I would not go hunting with my range finder.


----------



## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*I have got to reply!*

Cheaters!

If I am able to determine in my own mind, ( and I'm not easily convinced about anything without proof ), about someone cheating and I will bring it up to the powers that be and no one does anything about it, that'll be the last time they will see my footprints at that club or that range during a tournament.

Oh yes!

Loud mouth braggers!

Just ignore them! 

Even when they constantly ask you what you shot, ( not because they sincerely care about your score ), but because they want to see if they beat you and then grin like a trash eating opossum.

Go to the other end of the line and IGNORE them.

Before you pay your fees at the next shoot, ask where this bragger is going to be shooting, tell them to place you as far away from that person as possible before you give them your money.

Sound harsh?

It's better than what I really have in mind for them.

It's totally illegal and I don't want to meet Bubba and Big Red in the Big House.

All kidding aside!

Bring up the cheaters or shut up and ignore the loud mouth braggers.

Life is easier that way.:wink:


----------



## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

I am glad someone finally asked this because I have noticed it more this year than ever.I even had a people tell me right up front this is a point shoot we are not taking 5s or 8s.Sorry but if I shoot 20 5s I had better see that on my score card. I think people do this to make up for what they lack in other ways aka little man syndrome. Must make some people feel good to go out and cheat for a trophy knowing that someone else really DESERVED it instead. 
The best one is the guy that cheats and shoots even or better at local shoot all the time then goes to IBO or ASA and shoots 70 0r 80 down for the weekend.


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Shotgun starts*

At all 3d shoots would elimanate that.


----------



## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

*Yeah*



Daniel Boone said:


> At all 3d shoots would elimanate that.


Yeah but shotgun shoots would eliminate all 3d shoots!!!!


----------



## xsmasherj (Oct 12, 2005)

If your not cheating your not trying....Iam kidding


----------



## The Yankee (Nov 23, 2005)

treeman65 said:


> The best one is the guy that cheats and shoots even or better at local shoot all the time then goes to IBO or ASA and shoots 70 0r 80 down for the weekend.


I average about 90 for each ten targets now. Sometimes I shoot really well and sometimes really bad.  I went to Mckean for the 2nd leg of the IBO triple crown and guess what, I averaged 90 for each ten.  I think that there are many reasons for people to shoot bad at major shoots but I really think most of the time they just have to take the score they shoot because they can't cheat.  But I will say there are a few shooters from my area that can shoot very high scores, they just go to the big shoot and fall on their rump is all. Many reasons, having TOO good of a time, getting all tensed up etc. But shooting 70 to 80 down is a dead give away I would think. :wink:


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*You think*



3dbowmaster said:


> Yeah but shotgun shoots would eliminate all 3d shoots!!!!



All ASA events are shotgun start.:wink: Dont see them declining. Its all how you promote it. I think the future of 3d is shotgun starts because people are getting tired of not having a fair playing field.


----------



## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

3dbowmaster said:


> Yeah but shotgun shoots would eliminate all 3d shoots!!!!



HUH???? Since when


----------



## BowHunterOK (Apr 30, 2006)

Shotgun starts are hard for me, I work a lot, and find it harder and harder to find the time to shoot. I have teenage boys that work and shoot when they can too.
I don't see how a *local *3D range could benifit by having a shotgun start, seems to me more people would come to a shoot open half the day, shoot at their own pace with their buddies or in my case with my family.
If you want to cheat for the prestige of a plastic trophy, then cheat away, what comes around goes around.
Now, I did attend a shotgun start this last weekend, and I got to shoot with some new found friends and had a blast, I placed second in my division and was not worried as to what anyone thought 'cause I did not score my own arrows, (I never do anyway, but this was not a buddy or family member). Maybe have the open classes shotgun, and the bowhunters shoot at will after the pros get done, for local shoots it might be just the ticket, but what do I know, I'm just an archer just trying to have some fun!


----------



## Target Tony (Mar 3, 2003)

all the IBO Heartland Triple Crown shoots were trickle starts like normal. but they bust groups and have double scoring. thats is what keeps things on the up and up, double scoring and a stranger in the group. 

me and 2 friends went to the St Joseph shoot. it was the last leg of the Heartland Triple Crown . we expressed that we all wanted to shoot together. no problem they put 2 strange guys in our group and gave them one set of score cards. how easy is that. they have one set we have one set. the 2 scorers score and 2 people call. the cards must match at each target ..

pretty easy and fool proof if you ask me..

shotgun starts and double scoreing also work very well. guess its just what your shoot likes to do..

Shoot strong
Tony


----------



## hoytshtr (Mar 7, 2005)

*The pencil is mightier than the.....*

Take your pic. I know I have been pencil whipped before. I have mostly moderate days, a few good ones and a few bad ones. But I have never once cheated, cause when you cheat you are only cheating yourself. And when you cheat yourself you always come up short, and shortly you become known as a cheater. That was alittle Mike Brady'ish huh?:embara:


----------



## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> All ASA events are shotgun start.:wink: Dont see them declining. Its all how you promote it. I think the future of 3d is shotgun starts because people are getting tired of not having a fair playing field.



Well I agree with you to an extent but the problem is that most archers don't go to national shoots. At local levels most people that shoot go when ever they can. They can't be set a time like twelve. Its a busy world!!!! You can't screw up a whole day! You have to plan your time wisely!!!

I think the key is to have the groups busted up!!! Like someone else said. One outsider is all it takes to take care of the cheating!!!! And how many times do you go to a shoot and you and your buddy are the only ones there to shoot. Never!!! So you could always throw someone else in to keep it fair!!


----------



## ultratec1 (Jan 3, 2005)

*Shotgun starts*

For local small shoots shoutgun starts would destroy them. It is hard enough to get a decent amount of shooters to a 2 day 3-D but now your telling them that they have to be there at a certain time. Like previously stated a double scoring system is the way to go.


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Local 3d shoots*

Local shoots most likely are going to be trickle starts. Lots of archers are there just to practice for hunting or have fun. That fine but many are very compittive and travel long distances to shoots ever weekend somewhere and want a fair playing field. 

But if you ever want archers to take 3d serious they want a fair playing field.

Most 3d shotgun starts are two start times. Most can find either the morning or evening shoot.

We all know scoring is a promblem and keeps some form not attending shoots or driving long distances. I hear it the pro shops all the time about how 3d is scored.

Its been done succesfully and can be done. I do think they larger compitive shoots will and should be shotgun starts. I agree you can break groups up and that would work if enforced.

One other way to do this is have a shotgun start for anyone wanting to compete. 

Your not going to make everyone happy. But for me and some of my friends. We have are own ranges to shoot. We are having shoots with friends and everyone starts at the same time, its not surprising we are having plenty of shooters wanting to come shoot. For some of us that compete everyweekend we want a fair playing field and want to keep a fair scoring system.

I never understood comptition and someone not wanting a fair sysytem. Now if your just shooting 3d for the fun then dont score.


----------



## tree_frog (Dec 17, 2003)

*Comfort Zones*

This problem has exsited for a long time even at the top ranks of the sport it has happened, various ways have been used. I believe that all groups should be broke up no matter what beyond all local shoots. People get in comfort zones shooting with a favorite group and eventually lines will be called or distances will be discussed at some point even if its inadvertantly it happens. Peer pressure by 3/4 vs 1 or two persons can happen when calling lines.

We as archers need to be able to handle the stress levels of shooting with other people at some point so when it does happen I.E World, IBO National shoots, Vegas or Indoor Nationals ETC your able to channel and not depend on anyone except yourself. What does happen as said above is the person/persons cheating will fall hard if never comfronted at some point then everyones asking questions. Or they get peered up and all H*** breaks loose on the second day. I also think at any triple crown events,state events, or IBO labeled events its only right for the top shooters to be paired up on that weekend if possible. Why would you not want to shoot againest your competition if at all possible?

I read a great article the other day where it compared the pressure of a trophy deer to that of a competitive tournament (measured by heart rate) it was very interesting. A person must put him or herself in pressure situations to be the best they can be and be able to place the shot of a lifetime when its time whether its indoors,3D's or a trophy buck. Great topic... Shoot Straight Aim Hard


----------



## rcr7mm (Jun 14, 2006)

My own thought is they don't affect me. I am at a 3d to have fun and I tend to think that the best shooters tend to always settle out on top in the end. I worry about enough other things in my life that 3d shoots are an escape for me. Worrying about cheaters would just subtract from my enjoyment. Be very careful of the high versus low score of being any indication of cheating. If I am in the zone I can shoot with anyone, but if Im not OH BROTHER. Also I find certain courses layouts affect my ability to accurately judge yardage again affecting my score. I would never cheat but would still feel bad if I shot a really high score and someone that attended would even think for a moment that I must have cheated.


----------



## tree_frog (Dec 17, 2003)

*topic*

I meant to say paired up on the last day of the final legs of an event if possible, sometimes its not but most times it could be. It would take a little leg work but it could be done, pre registration possiblely. Some will disagree I know and other ideas are out there. Also I agree with if at local shoots you feel something is wrong just don't shoot competitive if your there for the fun.


----------



## tjandy (Jun 10, 2005)

These are all very good ideas for tournaments. I do not see any way of correcting this for the local leagues however. You can shoot anytime during the week and if you try and get with the known cheater, I believe they would avoid it. Any ideas to correct cheating for leagues?? My team always shoots with another team, but there are a lot of these two man teams shooting alone. ??????????? You spend $100 plus to shoot, it should be a fair playing field!


----------



## tree_frog (Dec 17, 2003)

*The Zone*

LOL... Oh how I agree with being in the zone part, there are times my head is as soild as a rock and in one fail moment its like soup and stays that way for quite some time.. everyone has those days and most top archers understand it. Most of the time though it seems like soup LOL


----------



## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*We all have good and bad days*

Its not easy spotting someone cheating. 

As archers we just need to realize for a compititive sport to grow we need to be fair to all archers. Many put there heart and sole into practicing long hours and travel and spend there money to compete on a fair playing field.

We all do this for fun. I find fun competing and trying to shoot my best against other archers. If your not doing it for fun then one shouldnt be doing it.:wink: :wink: I never think when going to a shoot Im not going to have fun 

3D great sport and have been doing for many years, well over 20yrs. One thing I like about this sport is there is no goal. There always another compitition and hopefully for as long as Im alive Ill be shooting these foam animals on weekends with fellow archers.:wink:


----------



## team_TRX (Feb 26, 2004)

Local shoots are hard to keep honest.I know of a certain couple of guys who go to one local 3-D range during the week and take thier rangefinder with them to get yardages then come tourney time they seem to shoot good scores.These same people don't shoot nearly as well when they go to shoots further away that they can't make it to to range during the week.


----------



## pseshooter300 (Oct 16, 2005)

no reason to cheat how is that going to get you anywhere or how is that going to make you feel better.


----------



## Bucks Spirit (Apr 21, 2006)

Went to a shoot today. Seen one couple taking multipul shots at the same target. Also seen two guys doing the same thing. If they didn't turn in their score cards in that's fine, if they did than that's wrong! To top it off we had a group of six shooters come up behind us real quick on a few targets and wondered how they were catching up so fast, only three of us shooting. We decided to let them go ahead. The first shooter pulls out a range finder and says what the yardage is, they were shooting top gun. I could be that good also ! I shoot bow hunter release and shot a 257 without cheating and didn't turn my card in .


----------



## teeroy (Aug 16, 2004)

> Local shoots are hard to keep honest.I know of a certain couple of guys who go to one local 3-D range during the week and take thier rangefinder with them to get yardages


i have even heard of one of these guys going to a big shoot, a day or so before the tourney, and walk the course (rangefinder in hand) before the targets are even set up. 
why try so damned hard to get the upper hand, for a freakin $6 trophy. just to get on the internet and get a bunch of strangers to think they are someone special?


----------



## Bucks Spirit (Apr 21, 2006)

I can remember when I started shooting 3d in 1990. To push myself to do better and get with the program of holding form and judging yardage correctly if I took a shot and it stuck in the leg below the body I would mark a 0 instead of a 5. Believe me I got alot of 0's . Not anymore! I felt the pain and learned the game and shoot striaght by the rules! Happy I did it that way!


----------



## Stanman421 (Jul 9, 2006)

*Cheating*

Everything said here are great methods for stopping and reducing cheating, but to what extent should we implement these? Ive gone to local and major shoots, and I think that cheating has been very minimal.
I do admit there is more cheating at local shoots. Local shoots are there more to have fun, rather than hold championship shoots and shoot records. Doing everything possible to stop cheating will take away the fun of these friendly shoots, which will lead to the decline of the great sport of archery. 
But, some of these measures are necessary for major shoots because of the prestige and rewards involved, and cheating is handled very effectively at most of these.
Archery is a sport and there is money involved. No matter how hard we try, there will always be cheaters and there will always be people who get away with it. I believe the only way to handle cheating better than what is already being done is to stop holding shoots altogether. I do not condone cheating in any way and frown on it with anger and pity those who do it, but unfortnulately it is a reality that we must endure, and we must deal with it, but in a way that does not destroy what we as archers shoot for, TOO HAVE FUN!


----------



## tjandy (Jun 10, 2005)

*This all just urks me*

This really urks me the more I think about it. I have only been shooting league for a couple years, but I enjoy it greatly. I am also very competitive and enjoy winning or losing when beat honestly. I guess what is really torking me is, not only isn't the playing field fair, but I am going to put in some 80 to 100 hours repairing their targets so they can do it. I know no one is putting a gun to my head to do it. oh well I will just shoot that much better. Maybe I should start moving the twelve ring.:wink:


----------



## Stanman421 (Jul 9, 2006)

It is sad that you have to repair these targets the cheaters use, but the more they cheat, the worse they get, and they will embarrass themselves at huge shoots even more. And you are still a very nice person for repairing the targets for legitimate shooters to use, and that is something to be proud of.


----------



## njshadowwalker (Aug 14, 2004)

YES YES YES

PEOPLE DEF CHEAT!

On rough days i always woner how the score board has 1 score of 300 or 295 when the rest shoot 270's or 280s on the tough courses.

Oh well. Sucks for the honest archers i suppose.


----------



## Stanman421 (Jul 9, 2006)

That can mean 1 of 3 things(usually the first)

1. They cheated

2. They had a very lucky day, its happened

3. You have a really good shooter in your midst


----------



## sean (May 31, 2003)

njshadowwalker said:


> YES YES YES
> 
> PEOPLE DEF CHEAT!
> 
> ...



two reasons this happens reason one you let it happen if you want to see how these guys stack up shoot with them either you will be vindicated or you will see you aren't as good as you think you are....

reason two ... trust me no mater how good you get there will always be someone of equal or higher skills thats half the fun I get the cheating crap all the time and all I can say if you think that the top men cant shoot the scores they post step up and shoot with them don't sit back and cry about better shooters shooting better scores its just petty .....


----------



## Stanman421 (Jul 9, 2006)

true


----------



## the_hitman (Jul 11, 2006)

I ran into a situation like that this past sunday. A guy i was shooting with on the last target ran up and called the arrows before we even had a chance to get there AND PULLED them. When looking at the holes left in the target (new target btw) his was at least a half in out of the ten. Either way, With that much of a difference between us I wouldn't have been able to win anyway but, to just make such an obviously ridiculous call kinda of set me apart. :sad:


----------



## sean (May 31, 2003)

the_hitman said:


> I ran into a situation like that this past sunday. A guy i was shooting with on the last target ran up and called the arrows before we even had a chance to get there AND PULLED them. When looking at the holes left in the target (new target btw) his was at least a half in out of the ten. Either way, With that much of a difference between us I wouldn't have been able to win anyway but, to just make such an obviously ridiculous call kinda of set me apart. :sad:






then learn the rules and make everyone adhere to them if he pulled before the arrows were scored he should have been DQ'ed ..


----------



## Ed Bock (Apr 1, 2006)

*Cheating, or not telling the truth---?*

Not sure if we're discussing an actual cheat, or one who BS's about his "last week's" score.


----------



## njshadowwalker (Aug 14, 2004)

sean said:


> two reasons this happens reason one you let it happen if you want to see how these guys stack up shoot with them either you will be vindicated or you will see you aren't as good as you think you are....
> 
> reason two ... trust me no mater how good you get there will always be someone of equal or higher skills thats half the fun I get the cheating crap all the time and all I can say if you think that the top men cant shoot the scores they post step up and shoot with them don't sit back and cry about better shooters shooting better scores its just petty .....


Im not crying. But dont tell me that when theres a team shoot. Everyone on the 3 or 4 or 5 man team will clean the course. That b.s.


----------



## sean (May 31, 2003)

njshadowwalker said:


> Im not crying. But dont tell me that when theres a team shoot. Everyone on the 3 or 4 or 5 man team will clean the course. That b.s.



I know some natl and world class shooters and I have never seen one of them CLEAN a course I have come close on an unmarked 3d with a 30 yard max but i had been shooting for 9 weeks every other night and that was some of my best stuff ... 5 guys dont clean an un marked course if they are counting 12's , if they are just counting 10's I believe it totaly its doable on all but the hardest 3d courses


----------



## teeroy (Aug 16, 2004)

i don't think the thread started as some "he can't be that good, he must be a cheat" most of us are talking about ACTUAL cheaters


----------



## Bowtech11 (Mar 21, 2006)

*cheaters*

Went to a shoot Sunday and did not know it was a shotgun start, anyway I was late and they let me shoot and catch up. I scored a eight and two mfives on the first three targets. About three groups noticed me shooting by myself and said something when they got back. I caught up with a group on stand 13 and shot eight up after I joined them. When one guy remarked that I could have been cheating, I remarked back that only cheaters would worry about someone else cheating. If you are shooting for money their should be at least one person put with the group to make them honest. If you are shooting for a trophey and have to cheat to win, you can have some of the group of people I shoot with


----------



## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

We had a "top" shooter that used to shoot a local shoot a lot. Carried a little book with him. I always thought it was sight marks. It was XX yds to this tree to that one etc. Since the shoot was basically the same or similar shots every month he got an edge. Edge, isn't that a nice PC word? 

We had more at another club shoot. They did a shotgun start and card shuffle to break up the cozy little groups and guess what? Not a one of them won that month. They never came back either which was the point of it all.

No matter where you go if there is a way, people will do it. Shoot for yourself and don't worry. Most if not all will get their's one day.


----------



## bowhunter357 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Shoot better without a Score card!*

Nothing matters but your "SHOOTING!" Take the score cards and throw them in the trash! Unless you're competing for money at the ASA or IBO shoots, score doesn't matter, unless of course a $10 trophy is that important.

Everyone has the local cheaters, I've asked many of them I questioned in the past to shoot with me, all it did was let them know, for that day, who the "shooter" was. It doesn't get you anywhere to worry about others scores, work on your shooting, not your score, then go to the money shoots with double scoring, everyone in your area will know who the shooters are!

Just remember, in 3D you can "shoot" great and "score" bad and vis versa. But the more days you shoot great the better your chance is for a great score!


----------



## zwalls (Apr 16, 2006)

*amen to that*



Daniel Boone said:


> At all 3d shoots would elimanate that.



shotgun starts and let the club pair off the shooters with defferent shooters other than the one you rode there with.there's a few that pencil whip in our area and we have wittnesess not just assumptions.when they go to an ASA :mg: all of a sudden I'M HAVING TROUBLE WITH MY BOW.I CAN'T SEE THE YARDAGE.

I've had my share of problems this year with getting older but my scores show it.I've shot down more than up this year .when I went to Illinois this year I shot 9 down.a little disapointed but fairly stisfied.got nervous and shot an 8 and a 5 on the first 2 targets the first day with no 12's.second day four 12's and four 8's and the rest 10's ,and that's about how my year has gone .the difference is I shoot about the same locally as at as ASA tourny.

I just don't get how some of these guys are willing to cheat themselves as well as others who actually deserve it.I guess it's always going to be around unless the clubs do something to stop it like shotgun starts.


----------



## wolfclan (Jul 13, 2006)

I used to shoot 3D competitively,got tired of the bs and braggers.I only shoot locally now to practice for hunting,then take what I consider a good killing shot not many arrows are in the IBO rings. Oh by the way if your flighted with a big mouth just start aiming for his nocks after you smash a few of his arrows he will tone it down a bit.:wink:


----------



## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

IBO WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP last year!!!!

Lets see what you all would have done about this!!!!

Last year my buddy was in the hunter class. He was shooting fairly well!!!
There was also a women and another man who was shooting with him. The other man was also shooting fairly well.
On one of the targets they all shot and my buddy was helping the women get around (its hilly and all that stuff). The other guy that was shooting decent shot last. Well they all had binos and watch each others shot placement. While my buddy helped this women, the other guy ran up to the target and pulled the arrows(a big no no). Well everyone knew what the scores were with the bino. You'll never guess what the guy had given himself. He said he had got a 12. My buddy and the women just looked at each other. My buddy told me that the other guys arrow was atleast a good inch and a half out of the 10!!!! 
My question is: What would you have done? Not say a word!!Or turn him in and all of the shooters in the group get DQed for him cheating. Keep in mind that My buddy was in a position that if he shot good the second day he could win the tournament.
Needless to say my buddy didn't turn him in because of screwing up his tournament.
My buddy blew up the second day!!!And didn't come back to win. He regreted not turning him in but what was he to do.
The guy that cheated, placed in the top 5 I know, but don't remember which place.


----------



## bullseye7 (May 1, 2006)

It makes me wonder when I see a few 390's and 400's in the YOUTH class on a 40 target course!

BTW this is my #100 post:RockOn:


----------



## Elf Friend (Mar 1, 2003)

3dbowmaster said:


> IBO WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP last year!!!!
> 
> Lets see what you all would have done about this!!!!
> 
> ...


By his not saying anything then he was alowing the cheating to continue and allowed a person who may have shot well finish lower than he should have. Personally, I would have jacked him up then and there and turned him in the very first chance I had.


----------



## zwalls (Apr 16, 2006)

My question is: What would you have done? Not say a word!!Or turn him in and all of the shooters in the group get DQed for him cheating. Keep in mind that My buddy was in a position that if he shot good the second day he could win the tournament.
Needless to say my buddy didn't turn him in because of screwing up his tournament.
My buddy blew up the second day!!!And didn't come back to win. He regreted not turning him in but what was he to do.
The guy that cheated, placed in the top 5 I know, but don't remember which place.[/QUOT


I agree with Elf Friend.If you pull my arrows before I can get there I will confront them about it especially if you've seen what they were with binoculars.Local or Pro Am tourny!!


----------



## bengapple (Mar 27, 2006)

*Bust him he's a creep*

"My question is: What would you have done? Not say a word!!Or turn him in and all of the shooters in the group get DQed for him cheating. Keep in mind that My buddy was in a position that if he shot good the second day he could win the tournament.
Needless to say my buddy didn't turn him in because of screwing up his tournament.
My buddy blew up the second day!!!And didn't come back to win. He regreted not turning him in but what was he to do.
The guy that cheated, placed in the top 5 I know, but don't remember which place."


I would have busted the creep so hard he would have bounced. Every time we let this sort of behavour go unchesked we are in effect condoning the behaour in fact one could argue that to let it go is to indirectly take part in the behavour. If we do not bust these creeps whats next, messing with the equipment of those out shooting them..Sorry for the tirade but I hate this win at all costs attitide that has developed..


----------



## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

So what you all are telling me is that
he should have turned him in!!!!
For me its a tough call
You got to realize that my buddy is 2 or 4 points from the lead or maybe in the lead. In this situation it would be tough for me to turn this fellow in and resulting in me gettin disqualified or at very best getting a zero for that target!!! I'm sorry, I hate cheaters just as much as anybody else,but I don't think I could throw a chance of winning the championship. At very best circumstances, if you did turn him in, the officials would probably give you a zero for that target and you know you can't win with zeros. I believe I would take my chances at beating the cheater. 
Oh yeah I've heard of the horror stories about sights getting messed with and peeps getting slid up the string a little too!!! The first thing a person told me about going to any big shoot is to carry your bow with you at all times!!!!!


----------



## tjandy (Jun 10, 2005)

3dbowmaster said:


> So what you all are telling me is that
> he should have turned him in!!!!
> For me its a tough call
> You got to realize that my buddy is 2 or 4 points from the lead or maybe in the lead. In this situation it would be tough for me to turn this fellow in and resulting in me gettin disqualified or at very best getting a zero for that target!!! I'm sorry, I hate cheaters just as much as anybody else,but I don't think I could throw a chance of winning the championship. At very best circumstances, if you did turn him in, the officials would probably give you a zero for that target and you know you can't win with zeros. I believe I would take my chances at beating the cheater.
> Oh yeah I've heard of the horror stories about sights getting messed with and peeps getting slid up the string a little too!!! The first thing a person told me about going to any big shoot is to carry your bow with you at all times!!!!!


I don't shoot any big shoots, but I would hope that that crap doesn't occur. I also would hope if they ever caught someone pulling that at these beg shoots they would DQ that person for life. Thats a bunch of $%#@


----------



## MLL2 (May 7, 2006)

*cheaters*

I dont see anything wrong with it myself I have won lots of $$$$$ doing that


----------



## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I am hoping this IBO world cheating is a hypethical(sp) situation. One the 12 ring hasn't been used as a 12 since around 2000. They don't mix Men and women for this championship shoot as far as I have seen.

Now real or not they should have sat right down and called for a range official and had the issue solved right then and there. The rules clearly state if arrows are pulled before they are scored... remember this is a two score card shoot... that the arrow pulled is a zero for first offence and DQ if continued after. Cheaters should never be allowed to prosper. Your buddy would have only been DQ if he allowed it to continue and was then part of the act either by condoning it or benifiting from it. It is the responcibility of the group to police itself, and if that doesn't work, call for an official!


----------



## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Grnmtn said:


> I am hoping this IBO world cheating is a hypethical(sp) situation. One the 12 ring hasn't been used as a 12 since around 2000. They don't mix Men and women for this championship shoot as far as I have seen.
> 
> Now real or not they should have sat right down and called for a range official and had the issue solved right then and there. The rules clearly state if arrows are pulled before they are scored... remember this is a two score card shoot... that the arrow pulled is a zero for first offence and DQ if continued after. Cheaters should never be allowed to prosper. Your buddy would have only been DQ if he allowed it to continue and was then part of the act either by condoning it or benifiting from it. It is the responcibility of the group to police itself, and if that doesn't work, call for an official!


Yeah you're right!! They are 11s instead of twelves. And maybe he should have got an official and then everyone in the group could have got a zero. Thats not good for the ones that didn't cheat!!!! And Yes they did have a woman in their group!!!!


----------



## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

Well as a group They all looked at the target from behind the stake before the arrows were pulled. I am sure as a group stating that these were the scores to the official and that they were filing a protest at that point on the shooter pulling the arrows before scored. They would have either been able to reshoot the target( maybe but more likely), kept the score they recorded. The group is the one calling the foul on the archer pulling the arrows. They were not at fault so I am sure they wouldn't have been docked for the guys unsportsman like conduct. 

Did he contine to pull arrows before they were scored or was it a one target thing? 

I believe the group should have filed a protest when they hit the table and got at least his score corrected, because as a group it should have been three unrelated shooters with their stories against his denial. But everyone has to choise their path. I've been there and it is not a pleasant experience but it is and was the right thing to do.


----------



## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

I have no idea why folks do it! It is just crazy and silly! I have figured out a way to knock that stuff up...Turn both cards in....and draw for score keepers:wink: Keep the running total and be sure the cards match up.


----------

