# View on SABA



## poseidon (Oct 18, 2007)

What are your view on the competitions organised by SABA? Isn't it strange that the some people are always in line for a lucky draw irrespective of the number of people attending.


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## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

Can't say, never attended any of there shoots.


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

I've always had about as much time for SABA as for Black Mambas:thumbs_do


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Hi Poseidon. Welcome to our corner of the 'net! 

Your post raises quite a controversial issue, but your profile does not let us know anything about you. Please introduce yourself before you start a huge fight!!!


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## Trad Mad (Oct 26, 2007)

*saba*

if u have something to say about saba please tell us who u are and what u are really trying to say . nothing strange to me - where you at the shoot poseidon or are you one of those that keeps quiet in front of people and hides behind a lap top. ASG maybe you should say why u have a finger showing down for your opinion on saba - i can find a finger but it will definately be showing up to u ( it won't be a thumb) u have lost me as a reader for all your future mags. if you have something to say on a forum it is to improve archery and help people not to tear them apart in your first sentence. think before u make a stink
grant adams


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## Bushcat (Aug 31, 2007)

Hi there Trad Mad, you seem to be passionate about SABA and thats great, May I just point out that ASG did not create the stink as such, that honour goes to poseidon - I wonder if he is into bow fishing. ASG was merely expressing an opinion, albeit contrary to yours. There is no doubt that ASG is passionate about archery and hunting in Southern Africa and you will be selling yourself short by choosing not to read The ASG magazine because the editor has a different opinion to you. 

Welcome to the forum I have learnt alot here, and I am sure that you have alot to add 
Ryan


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## Charles B (Nov 6, 2007)

I have been a member of SABA more than ten years and my hole family myself and my wife and two children tried to attend most of the broadhead competitions in this time 
It was a great opportunity for the family to do a sport together until the beginning of this year when a decision was made that a family and friends 
can not shoot together because of the big prizes at the end of the year .I then wrote a e-mail to JC Botha and requested that if we can continue to 
participate in the competitions as a family in one team and that we will then not be considered for the prizes if this will be ok 
JC Botha replied that he is sorry but it will not be possible.And since then we did not go to any competitions because if they do not even trust their own members 
I do not want to be part of such a orginasation and we will not renew our membership


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## Trad Mad (Oct 26, 2007)

hi bushcat. are you reading the same forum?? asg compared saba to a black mamba which to me is not a opinion but a statement. if a person as u say has a passion for archery you would not come out guns blazing but try to resolve the conflict if there is one. i may not like some organisation but i wouldn't come out shouting at them.a editor of a magazine would state the facts and let his readers decide on that. there seems to be a handfull of archers on this forum and the local one that seem to do more damage to archery than anything else. charles seems to have a valid problem and should have been resolved by saba but i will ask jc and come back to him.

grant


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## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

:chimpeep:


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## Bushcat (Aug 31, 2007)

Good morning Grant

Yes I am fairly certain that we are reading the same forum.



ASG said:


> I've always had about as much time for SABA as for Black Mambas:thumbs_do


From an entirely literal point of view ASG states that the ammount of time that he would devote to SABA is proportionate to the ammount of time that he would devote to Black Mambas which we can assume is not much. He in no way compares SABA to the said snake and thus his statment remains an opinion to which he is welcome.

I do not understand your standpoint refering to certain members of this forum as bieng detrimental to archery in SA, I will only comment on my experiences, and have been made to feel very welcome to the sport. The willingness of the members to help me with answering my questions relating to all sectors of archery, has been inspiring and has motivated me to continue with archery.

For this I thank the men who have helped me, and for this I now defend one of those men. 

Let us lay this to rest and perhaps you should refocus on the original post.

Have a great day
Ryan


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## Drenalinjunkie8 (Sep 19, 2007)

No wonder Trad Mad is looking for a fight..... He is from Benoni after all....:set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::fencing:


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## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

:behindsof


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Bushkey said:


> :behindsof


This thread is heading south rather rapidly... I'll join you behind that sofa, Bushkey! care for some :happy1: ???


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## Trad Mad (Oct 26, 2007)

hi bushcat
looks like everyone here thinks i'm being aggressive.- not at all. saying my opinion the same as everyone else . just think saying the mamba story (whether opinion or not) is not called for. that is not helping archery as u say bushcat, defend your "men" as u like but that is not called for. people give up there spare time and money to run SABA . maybe there are faults that need to be addressed and could be fixed with a forum like this . ( in a friendly way )anyway i am for saba and asg not - end of topic.

grant
- keep the beers cold and the arrows straight


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

Trad Mad,

I'm really sorry to hear that I've lost you as a reader.

The reason for my post is simple. 

There is so much in-fighting, back stabbing and politics involved with archery associations in this country that they cannot stand together to truly act in the best interest of the sport. It's SABA this and SANIFFA that etc.ukey: 

Hence the reason that many of us no longer participate in any form of competitive archery anymore and rather spend our weekends shooting with family and friends.

Perhaps someday, when *ALL* the archery associations speak as one and work together towards a common goal without trying to further their own agenda I will gladly reassess my opinion.

Until then, there will always be archers on both sides of the fence with their own opinions of South African archery associations and the constitutional right to express those opinions.

Regards

Craig Smith


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## Gerhard (Aug 3, 2005)

Guys,

As an X-SABA committee member I will give you my take on SABA.

We are busy moving a warehouse into a new facility and things are a bit hectic.

Chat later.

Cheers.


Gerhard


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## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

ASG said:


> Trad Mad,
> 
> I'm really sorry to hear that I've lost you as a reader.
> 
> ...


Yes how many is there now? SANIFAA, SABA, ABO, FITA and all the little Hunting Association Archery cells. Any more?


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

Bossie,

Dit is net soos jy daar se. 

Dit is ook nie net in die boogskiet wereld nie maar ook in die jag bedryf.
S A Jagters, CHASA, ens.
Elkeen trek in sy eie rigting en dinge sal baie vinniger reg gaan as almal saam werk. :wink:


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## Trad Mad (Oct 26, 2007)

hi craig

so u feel that way about all the organisations-abo-saniffa-saba everyone?? i'm sorry u feel that way about saba. 
saba gave over R50000-00 of prizes at the last shoot., joined s.a jagters this year to have a bigger "voice" in bowhunting( we all don't want this to come to a end)- what else can saba do. 
as i said before this forum can help to suggest what saba should do to attract archers like you that are not happy. saniffa is purely target archery and is very different to saba and can't really be under one roof. abo and saba maybe but i think abo is also a target org.A traditional archer does not hunt at 35 yards as in there comps.therefore it is a target org. to me and not realistic for hunting in any way.what agenda has saba got and maybe i can help to change the negatives into +++
if we talk about things like adults only positive results will follow.

grant 
KEEP THE BEERS COLD:darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## spatan (Jul 10, 2006)

*Shoove op owens...*



Matatazela said:


> This thread is heading south rather rapidly... I'll join you behind that sofa, Bushkey! care for some :happy1: ???


I am also coming to join you guys behind the sofa........:zip::wink:

Spatan:cocktail:


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

*Any more takers for a seat behind the big blue couch???*

:moviecorn :moviecorn :moviecorn


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## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

Matatazela said:


> :moviecorn :moviecorn :moviecorn


:set1_STOOGE2:Listen here..... It is my blue sofa, I share with no one....go get your own, you don't like blue in any way.....O, ja, and I hate popcorn.....I love peanuts.....go get a green sofa.....:jksign:


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Bushkey said:


> :set1_STOOGE2:Listen here..... It is my blue sofa, I share with no one....go get your own, you don't like blue in any way.....O, ja, and I hate popcorn.....I love peanuts.....go get a green sofa.....:jksign:


:behindsofa :chimpeep: :couch2:


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## Bushcat (Aug 31, 2007)

Matatazela said:


> :behindsofa :chimpeep: :couch2:


Space for me? ASG is here now and I am gone


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Ek gaan kak as ek nou my bek oop maak maar nou ja, hier gaan ons.

The problem with bow hunting organisations in this country is that there are way too many chiefs and way too little indians. All of them do good in their own right, but they would, IMHO, accomplish much more if they talked out of the same mouth.

Lets hope that it can happen one day, it could just be to the benefit of our sport.

Regards

Engee


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## Gerhard (Aug 3, 2005)

Okay let me give you my side of the SABA story.

I started my archery career with the intention of hunting and not getting involved in any competitions. 

Reason you might ask?

I have been in to many shooting disciplines. Combat Rifle shooting, Small bore target and IPSC or Combat shooting.

The moment I lose interest in a sport is when I started to finish on the top 10 to top 5 shooters and the politics of the sport and region or province became more important than the score board and if you like your buddy more than me and I am number 5 and he is number 6 he gets picked for the team type of thing.

I just bought the bow at the end of 05 and a couple of friends almost force me to go and shoot the last SABA shoot for the year close to Alberton if I remember correctly.

Now I shot field points that day my final score was 13% or something but I learned a heck of lot about archery in field conditions and that shooting at a 3 D is not like shooting at a paper X and I had a lot of fun!!!

I tried to make a point of it to compete in all the 2006 SABA shoots. I saw a lot of bad or wrong things during the shoots and made a couple of suggestions via email to the committee. Especially after the shoot at Arrow rest last year.

By the end of last year I was asked if I would make myself available for the committee and I saw this as an opportunity to get involved with SABA and make a diffrence.

Early this year JC had the 1st comitee meeting.

I did not know who JC Botha was or how he looked like until that meeting.

During that meeting I realised that JC committed a lot of his time, money and effort into taking on the job as chairman. He drove down a couple of times from Ellisras to Pta for meetings and he was not paid for any fuel or toll gate fees. How many other guys have done that for bow hunting in South Africa and people he does not know.

What was intended with the "new SABA" :

1. We intended to get as many people to the shoots as possible by means of prizes per shoot and an over all grand prize.

2. During the shoots setup the targets to try and teach the shooters about shooting in the field. Be that how your feet are placed or if the target is obscured in some way.

With this we also had to place some targets for more difficult shots to ensure we have a winner at the end of the day and not 20 with 100% scores.

How many has shot 80% + on SABA?

3. By joining CHASA and SA Hunters as hunting organisations to unify archery hunting and have a strong voice with nature conservation when it comes to bow hunting issues.

(How many knows that "Bow hunting" is illegal in all the provinces????
You need a permit for every time you go hunting)

4. Get some of the guys that buy bows every month a place where they can learn more about bow hunting and hunting etichs.

Now I know there was issues during the shoots I attended because friends or families wanted to shoot in the same detail and JC said "NO".

The reason for this is simple but also sad.

Go and have a look at the big prizes at the end of the year.

I have seen people cheat score sheets to try and gain advantages. Don't know who they are and do really care.

But when it comes to the type of money and prizes JC had to try and prevent it as much as possible.

And if that makes you unhappy that's you right. But now you have the reason why.

I hope that this gives you guys a little back ground in what SABA is trying to do for us with regards to bow hunting in South Africa.

Please if you are not happy about certain issues be a man and contact JC his details are in the Bowhunter every month and talk to him but also make suggestions.

Don't need to hide behind the blue sofa any more!!!! lol

My 2c on SABA

Gerhard


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Thanks Gerhard. That certainly clears a few things up. The mystery, though, is, who exactly is Poseidon really????


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## Gerhard (Aug 3, 2005)

Matatazela said:


> Thanks Gerhard. That certainly clears a few things up. The mystery, though, is, who exactly is Poseidon really????


Don't know and really don't care.

Time will tel.

Gerhard


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## Bushkey (Mar 17, 2006)

Matatazela said:


> Thanks Gerhard. That certainly clears a few things up. The mystery, though, is, who exactly is Poseidon really????


Do you think we will see him again?


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## poseidon (Oct 18, 2007)

*Saba*



Trad Mad said:


> if u have something to say about saba please tell us who u are and what u are really trying to say . nothing strange to me - where you at the shoot poseidon or are you one of those that keeps quiet in front of people and hides behind a lap top. ASG maybe you should say why u have a finger showing down for your opinion on saba - i can find a finger but it will definately be showing up to u ( it won't be a thumb) u have lost me as a reader for all your future mags. if you have something to say on a forum it is to improve archery and help people not to tear them apart in your first sentence. think before u make a stink
> grant adams[/QUOTE
> 
> Trad Mad apropos your response. That is unfortunately not my nature, character or style. The nature of the response is indicative of the weakness. I urge you to rather address the issue than attacking the character. Really the disclosure of my identity will not improve on facts. It is quite evident that certain people or at least when I still attended the competitions and even this last competition are always winners of lucky draws. I don't care about the draws because I normally utilise this opportunity to catch up with my friends but the fact remains and raises suspicions.


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## poseidon (Oct 18, 2007)

See guys that's what I am talking about they would rather chase members away before addressing the issue. I urge you guys to attend an ABO competition, the professionalism speaks for itself. They solve problems encouraging and promoting the sport in the correct way. The furnish advices as to safeguard the return of archers to their competitions. They make provision for people like Charles, they address the problem. In fact the will go out of their way to find a person to do the scoring in order to accommodate these people. The idee is to enjoy the sport archery. I am not being difficult but would like to pose the question what happened to the professionals and proteas who use to attend SABA shootings. Hopefully they will improve and make it worth to return.


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## Trad Mad (Oct 26, 2007)

poseidon

no problem with the draw- if you were there you would know that as the draw was done in front of the and by the archers ' so where u get that who knows. problem with hiding behind a laptop leads to archery shops attacking there opposition and the same with saba - abo etc. will gladly talk to you but please let all of us know who you are.
be the man behind your statement not the mouse behind the laptop. archery is being affected negatively by people like you. there is room for saba - abo- saniffa etc and room for improvement in all of them. could pick abo and saniffa apart but would that help archery NO. no more comments from me to you if u stay a mouse

grant


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## Gerhard (Aug 3, 2005)

The lucky draws was done by using your entry number. All are put in a hat and normally a lady present will be ask to go and draw the numbers out of the hat.

How can some guys be lucky enough to win more prices than others?

I don't know you tell me.

I am not anti ABO. I just don't like the competition setup and I choose not to compete.

SABA's goal is to look after the bow hunter in South Africa as a whole. So if the Top shooters do not wish to attend a SABA shoot that's their prerogative. 

So stop complaining about the little things.

Make suggestions and lets work together to ensure we all can enjoy bow hunting in the future.

Gerhard


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## Philip Moolman (Jan 31, 2006)

Matatazela said:


> This thread is heading south rather rapidly... I'll join you behind that sofa, Bushkey! care for some :happy1: ???


Bliksem !, James I think the sofa is a bad choice for real cover .I'll take Bossie's first cover


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## poseidon (Oct 18, 2007)

Grandt Adams

You know I am definitely not the first or the last to raise this issue. I won't even considering descending to your level of name calling. Clearly you are defending the impotence of SABA! My question remains unanswered, what happened to the professional archers that use to attend SABA's competitions? That on it's own speaks for itself. Regard being had to aformentioned please stop your name calling it depicts your character.


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## poseidon (Oct 18, 2007)

Thanks for the manner in which you address the issue. I have made numerous suggestions but believe it or not the same excuses are being raised all the time. I would also like to make reference to one of your earlier comments. Yes the management do work for free, but have anyone considered the fact that SABA also provide free exposure/ publicity for those who have the bow shops and participating in the management thereof. To some extend they are rewarded.


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## Gerhard (Aug 3, 2005)

poseidon said:


> Thanks for the manner in which you address the issue. I have made numerous suggestions but believe it or not the same excuses are being raised all the time. I would also like to make reference to one of your earlier comments. Yes the management do work for free, but have anyone considered the fact that SABA also provide free exposure/ publicity for those who have *the bow shops and participating in the management thereof. To some extend they are rewarded*.


My friend.

I do not know you, maybe you know me.

Did you know that Pierre from the ABO gets paid a salary by the ABO???

Who started ABO?

Now I have no issue about it but SABA did not pay me or JC or any of the committee members for time, money and effort we put in on getting SABA to benefit everybody. We did it for the love of the sport and that is all we asked for.

If someone keeps on *****ing about something like lucky draws "That's their problem" not the other 310 + shooters that visited the 1st and the 280 shooters that visited the 2nd shoot of the year.

IF YOU do not make the time and effort to speak to JC about issues that bother you then you are welcome to go and shoot ABO but stop complaining about SABA.:zip:

JC cell phone is 0824485723

Are you man enough????


Gerhard


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## Charles B (Nov 6, 2007)

Poseidon it will not help talking to JC or any of the SABA members because they will not listen to your requests and they surly do not want to help their members 
to enjoy the sport .

As I have mentioned before I have spoken to JC and his reply was that he can not help me with my request or must I say he did not want to help me
He was rather prepared to loose 4 members than to let them shoot in one teem even if they were prepared to pay for the competition and was prepared to be excluded from the competition prizes . 

I do not care if the prizes are R50000.00 ore R10. I just wanted to enjoy the sport with my family .But because of the members of SABA witch is so untrustworthy that 
they can not even be trusted to fill in their score cards correctly and Just because their is R50000 of prizes up for grabs some of the honest members must suffer .

I feel that since the big prizes were introduced it was all about the prizes 
and not for the enjoyment of the sport .So Poseidion it is not a question if you are a man or not to contact JC or to let them now who you are.

Because it seems that is all that the SABA characters want to know is if you are a man or not I suppose it is because they do not now how it feels to be a man
it will not help you to talk to JC I have tried and it does not help Because they think they are better than you.


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## Gerhard (Aug 3, 2005)

Charles B said:


> Poseidon it will not help talking to JC or any of the SABA members because they will not listen to your requests and they surly do not want to help their members
> to enjoy the sport .
> 
> As I have mentioned before I have spoken to JC and his reply was that he can not help me with my request or must I say he did not want to help me
> ...


:hurt::hurt:


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## Charles B (Nov 6, 2007)

Typical of a SABA member I must have known better they do not have the brains to give a proper reply


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## poseidon (Oct 18, 2007)

*Man enough to call JC*



Gerhard said:


> My friend.
> 
> I do not know you, maybe you know me.
> 
> ...



Dear Gerhard

The facts definitely speaks for itself. I have talked to JC. I have reached a point where I have wasted enough time and energy on this and SABA. The only reason I originally posed the question is so that a number of people can wake up and see the wood from the trees. Do you seriously suggesting that JC is not getting any exposure because of SABA, read the magazines " JC of JC Archery" is saying this is doing that, please he is definitely getting free advertising! Please do not construe this as an insult to him I am addressing your remark that everybody works for free. This is distant from the truth. Please don't reach the same level as other guys and start with name calling. I am definitely much more sophisticated than that and those actions wont illicit a response.

Poseidon


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Die ou Afrikaanse gesegde lui:

"Beste stuurman staan aan wal...."

As ons as boog*jagters* saamstaan en die boog*jag* unie/club/organisasie ondersteun sal ons baie ver kom en verseker dat boogjag in Suid Afrika seevier.

Alles van die beste ouens

Engee Potgieter


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## Gerhard (Aug 3, 2005)

poseidon said:


> Dear Gerhard
> 
> The facts definitely speaks for itself. I have talked to JC. I have reached a point where I have wasted enough time and energy on this and SABA. The only reason I originally posed the question is so that a number of people can wake up and see the wood from the trees. Do you seriously suggesting that JC is not getting any exposure because of SABA, read the magazines " JC of JC Archery" is saying this is doing that, please he is definitely getting free advertising! Please do not construe this as an insult to him* I am addressing your remark that everybody works for free*. This is distant from the truth. Please don't reach the same level as other guys and start with name calling. I am definitely much more sophisticated than that and those actions wont illicit a response.
> 
> Poseidon



This will be my last remark on this subject.

I worked like mad during a couple of the SABA competitions this year. I did not receive on R for my effort.

JC is the chairman of SABA. He did not join SABA or asked to be the chairman he was asked and personally I think he is doing a good job and changes are all ready starting to happen.

IF you are unhappy about certain issues that's your right.

Pity we Afrikaners have to fight about the small stuff.


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## Sir Robin Hood (Nov 12, 2007)

*SABA or ABO!?!?!*

Gentlemen &"Sophisticated" Poseidon

I have been contemplating on shooting ABO & SABA, but after reading this forum as an outsider, I must say I'm stunned at the politics, back stabbing and slyness of "sportsmen".

Sophisticated people do not tell others they are sophisticated, it shows in the manner they do things,but then again to sophisticate things means 
1) make less natural or less innocent;
2) practice sophistry: change the meaning of or be vague about in order to mislead or deceive:
3)alter and make impure, as with intention to deceive;
4)make more complex or refined.

Poseidon,being so pro ABO,what where you doing at SABA? If you don't care about the prizes why did you start this? Where you at the shoot,because you said when you still attended shoots.......... I think you are doing this in very poor taste: attacking SABA and not giving your ID so they can defend themselves( they sould have  some record or memory of your endless battle to be heard) Or are you making this all up to put SABA in a bad light and to make ABO look good.Are you involved in ABO maybe????

You are begging people to go and shoot ABO(what is your agenda?) Your question about the "pro's and the proteas"
left a bad taste in my mouth. They way I understand it now is: the pro's and proteas(what is the difference between them?) are all shooting ABO because they don't win the prizes at SABA, so you are saying that they are winning it at the ABO!?!?!? Sad to hear the pro's and proteas only shoot it for the prizes. But then again being a beginner in archery I will now make a point of it to go and shoot SABA. I'll stand a better chance there.

I understand that there will always be somebody that's not happy with something, but I want to do the begging now: Please Gentlemen & Poseidon, don't spoil it for the new guys like me (and the others out there)If you've got nothing good to say about people ,clubs, bowshops or organisations, keep quiet or give them the info so they can come and defend their livelyhoods or sparetime absorbers, and let us decide for ourselves, you might be right or wrong but let me find out for myself.

You came close to spoiling it for me.

Keep archery pure
Piet


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## poseidon (Oct 18, 2007)

Charles B


Have you checked January 08 Bowhunter Magazine. At least you and your family have been invited back. They did take their time!

Regards Poseidon


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