# 600 spine arrows



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

groove -

There are a lot of factors involved. A 600 spine should shoot/tune out of a 50#, depending on:
1. bow (limb) speed
2. degree of center shot (including arrow diameter - something that's often forgotten)
3. String type/material, strands, add-ons
4. quality of release or form in general

If some one tells you they are getting a 400 to tune, not shoot, but TUNE from a 40# bow, make sure the arrow length, head weight, degree of center shot and type of bow are also noted. Also make sure they actually understand how to tune. It's not impossible, just not likely or "optimal" for most people.

You get the idea. 

Viper1 out.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Whatever works, that's why we all have to tune our own bows and not have someone do it for us. I think the shooter has as much influence on the "proper" arrow as the bow itself.

I'm kind of the other way from you, I have a couple 50#@29" recurves that I draw to a tad over 29" and have trouble with anything weaker than a .340. Our physical builds and the specifics of our bows, to say nothing about our personal styles probably account for the difference. My arrows are also quite a bit longer than yours at 31.5" and I'm using 250gr. points. I can get a .400 to tune with these two bows but have to cut the arrows shorter and use light points (lighter than I want). The overall lighter .400s are noticeably faster, but the speed comes at the expense of a little more noise.

I've got a dozen .500 spine carbon arrows (Beman MFX Classic) and have never been able to use them, even with the lightest bow I've got which is a 45# recurve. 

If they work for you, that's all that counts. Have you tried bare shaft tuning?


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

If your bow is not very efficient, if you are using a Dacron string with heavy silencers, if the bow is not center cut or you are padding out your strike plate, if your form is not great and you are actually letting the string go in front of your anchor (shortening your draw), that would explain why such a weak spined arrow works for you.

For me - I would get a new bow, use a ff type string, and work on form so that my bow has as much energy as possible - because right now, based on the fact that you say a .600 spine arrow works, your 50lb bow has the energy of a 30lb bow.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Viper1 said:


> groove -
> 
> There are a lot of factors involved. A 600 spine should shoot/tune out of a 50#, depending on:
> 1. bow (limb) speed
> ...


Can you expand on No2 Tony. I shoot 30" long .600 VAP with 70grn tips out of my 42# recurve but find them harder to tune than 30" long .600 GT Ultralites with the same tip weight. Are skinny arrows tougher to tune?


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Skinny arrow changes centershot making the arrow act a bit stiffer. Similar to moving your plunger in or using a thinner strike plate. Try 100gr up front and I'll bet your tune is close once again.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

centershot said:


> Skinny arrow changes centershot making the arrow act a bit stiffer. Similar to moving your plunger in or using a thinner strike plate. Try 100gr up front and I'll bet your tune is close once again.


I think you've got that backwards. Skinny arrow will act weaker with a fixed strike plate.

Grant


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## groove508 (Sep 9, 2011)

New bow? Why? I'm not trying to get more energy or anything else but to get my arrows to fly straight and 600's do it. My bows come first, then I tune arrows to shoot out of them, not the other way around. I love my old bows and they have done well for me killing deer. Why would I use a stiffer arrow that shoots poorly out of the bow I am committed to using? That is the point.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jon, Center - 

Grant is correct, the thinner the arrow the closer it is to "center shot" (shorter radius) and a slightly stiffer spine may be required. 
Moving the plunger inboard, allows for a stiffer arrow.Just to confuse matters even more, here's a question I ask my students when they think they understand dynamic spine.

Jon - let's male it even more complicated:

Just to confuse matters even more, here's a question I ask my students when they think they understand dynamic spine.

On my 43# rig, I can shoot 1914 X7s (0.658"), 600 series Carbon Ones (0.600") and 570 ACEs (0.570").
I'm right handed and the stiffer ACEs impact to right of the Carbon ones which impact to the right of the 1914s.
(For arguments sake, lets assume the same tune is used, all the heads are very close in weight and we can ignore changes in elevation due to total weight.) 
Why?
The answer is so simple most adults won't get it, oddly enough kids do. 

Viper1 out.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Viper1 said:


> Jon, Center -
> 
> Grant is correct, the thinner the arrow the closer it is to "center shot" (shorter radius) and a slightly stiffer spine may be required.
> Moving the plunger inboard, allows for a stiffer arrow.Just to confuse matters even more, here's a question I ask my students when they think they understand dynamic spine.
> ...


The ACE is barreled and therefore has a weaker dynamic spine then the others. The C1 is a smaller diameter than the 1914 and that makes it's spine weaker.

-Grant


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

groove508 said:


> New bow? Why? I'm not trying to get more energy or anything else but to get my arrows to fly straight and 600's do it. My bows come first, then I tune arrows to shoot out of them, not the other way around. I love my old bows and they have done well for me killing deer. Why would I use a stiffer arrow that shoots poorly out of the bow I am committed to using? That is the point.


If you read what I said - I said "for me" - and yes for me I would get a new bow. If I knew of a recurve or longbow that had nearly twice the efficiency of the bow I am now shooting - I would get that bow. I want my bow to have as much energy as possible at the weight I am comfortable drawing. More energy means more speed, which means greater accuracy at unknown distances, greater energy means more penetration, greater energy and efficiency, believe it or not, can also mean a quieter bow, and a bow that shoots with less vibration, etc...

If you are happy with what you are shooting and shooting a bow that has MUCH less energy than nearly all recurves and longbows on the market today, that is fine and your choice.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

groove508 I had similar experience with my 45# Dryad Orion, I had 29" Lightspeeds (27.5" draw) and was loading 200g up front and still wasn't getting very good bareshaft tune at 20y, I got 660 C1's with 100g points and they Bareshaft great to 30y, the Dryad is known as a quality performance bow using 8125 string and most here would agree my Form is pretty solid.


Those same Lightspeeds with 100g points are massively weak out of my Moon riser, 42# Elite plus limbs (Stringwalking), I'm trying to get a mid point tune (25y) fairly ok to 20y then they go off like jammed sidewinders, my only tune option left is to cut the shafts shorter, they tune great normal 3 under hold. Then the 29" Easton 610 Navs with 100g points and 1.75 vanes tune easy and shoot fine using the 43# Border Hex limbs (don't want to use the Navs for 3D), I wonder if it's sometimes more about the arrow type than what spine is printed on the shaft, for me skinny arrows seem to have a wide tune range.

I got no saw to cut arrows so I was forced to shoot a 2 shot x 24 target WA3D tourney (33y max) at the weekend, I managed a 425 but I could see the weak spine was costing me points on the short shots, I just couldn't nail the pro rings, shot great past 20y.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I also think people use too much or too little fletch sometimes.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Grant - 

Nope. And the C1's aren't barreled. 
You're going to kick yourself when I tell you.

Jon - 

With the possible exception of poorly designed broadheads, you'd be surprised at how little fletch size matters at "trad" distances. 
I used 5" feathers indoors these days, for increased visibility. Only down side, it that they get chewed up faster than the smaller fletch. 

Viper1 out.


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## stoutstuff (Mar 31, 2011)

Tony, I'm guessing your hanging upside down and shooting.... Would it be the weight of the shafts?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

scout -

Nope.

Viper1 out.


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## lowellhigh79 (Aug 3, 2012)

The center of the skinnier arrows moves to the right at rest, resulting in less offset. The skinnier arrows subsequently will group to the right of the thicker arrows.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

lowell -

Yuppers.
The arrows are just pointing farther right from the get go.

Viper1 out.


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## lowellhigh79 (Aug 3, 2012)

Also, add that if the nocks and overall weight were the same for all three arrows, the skinnier arrows will group lower due to the same reasons (skinnier arrows point down more).


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

lowell -

The weight differences usually outweigh the diameters. 
But I did say, assuming the weights are the same.

Viper1 out.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Adjustablity. 

The closer you can tune the bow to you, the easier an arrow will tune. I have learned to tune the bow to you "your style first". For me, This make tuning the arrow much easier. I will go to tthe range with bareshaft, just too show others how well the bow is tuned. Shooting good bareshaft groups is were it all ABOUT. I can take a poorly tuned shaft and put long, big feather on them and have them fly and group fairly well, As long as I and the bow do things right. 
DD


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I forgot to add. That I also shoot .600 shafts. I shoot a Tradtech Triton. I shot them at 46# and now at 35#. The only changes I made when I went from 46# to 35# was, nock point,Tiller and center shot. Arrows stayed the same at 28", 85 grain point and 4" gateway feathers. I only changed nock point because I wanted Point on to be the same. I lower the poundage so I could work on Back tension by holding longer. 
DD


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

I need to get some 600s for my Excel with 24# limbs and some home made board/self bows. I usually check the 500s a little more carefully than the 400s. The 600s will get a VERY careful inspection with every shot!!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

w -

600s are a little stiff for 24# limbs. 
Not sure about checking thing. They really aren't that more fragile than the stiffer ones.

Viper1 out.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Viper1 said:


> w -
> 
> 600s are a little stiff for 24# limbs.
> Not sure about checking thing. They really aren't that more fragile than the stiffer ones.
> ...


I use .600 Victory VAP`S, 31.5" shaft length, 80 grain glue in point, 3" parabolic feathers out of a 40lb. recurve @ 28.25" draw length………they bareshaft fine, group great, and seem to be pretty tough, especially with pin nocks.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

wseward said:


> I need to get some 600s for my Excel with 24# limbs and some home made board/self bows. I usually check the 500s a little more carefully than the 400s. The 600s will get a VERY careful inspection with every shot!!


Those need more of a 1000 spine. I recommend the Carbon Impact Super Club 10/20.

-Grant

P.S. Tony: go back and read what I wrote, you restated the exact same thing after saying it was wrong.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Viper1 said:


> lowell -
> 
> Yuppers.
> The arrows are just pointing farther right from the get go.
> ...


If you are holding the bow in the "right" hand, a skinnier arrow will be pointing farther left. :wink:


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Viper1 and Big Country, thanx for the comments on 600 spine arrows. I have a limited arrow budget and a few 600s are all I will be able to introduce in the near future. These 600s would need to be close to tune for a number of bows. I have 340s, 400s, and 500s that tune, for me, to more than one bow. With the 600s I will try heavy tips (200, 225, 250 and 300g) tips to see if they will even be close.

I do not need the perfect tune, just something that will shoot ok.

Thanx again.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

grantmac, I posted prior to getting to page 2 of this thread. I am not sure my arrow budget will ever allow for 1000s. ;-)


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

wseward said:


> grantmac, I posted prior to getting to page 2 of this thread. I am not sure my arrow budget will ever allow for 1000s. ;-)


Super Clubs are under $7/arrow with vanes and points. Just about the cheapest thing going.

-Grant


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