# Trying Gap, Hitting Left



## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Why do you hate canting? I use to burn my nose so bad it bled after a few shots......I was to the point of quitting because of the pain but a 1 or 2 0-Clock cant solved that problem and makes shooting a pleasure again.........at least for me.......


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## MadJD (Oct 25, 2017)

Hoff1967 said:


> bare shaft flying straight and grouping with fletched arrows at 30 yards


Still tuning ok when shooting gap or just when you shoot instinctive? You need to tune for gap as it will be different.


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

Can you hit the target “instinctive” ?


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

If u are doing the gap wrong, u will end up with a inconsistent group vertically at most of the time.

If u are missing horizontally but not vertically, you are probably doing the anchor wrong hence missing the aim, rather than missing the gap.

When shooting gap, ur dominant/aiming eye need to be aligned with ur arrow shaft, so most gap shooters will not anchor at the corner of their mouths but beneath their eyes instead.

If u cant ur bow, u also need to cant ur head to compensate the said alignment.

Still....If ur grouping is missing horizontally but not so vertically. U may wanna check ur anchor or by slight chance u are torquing ur bow.


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

https://youtu.be/G-r1IqWjkKw

This guy nails it.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

One way or another the nock has to get under the eye. A slight tilt of the head can sometimes do it if you are close.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Getting the arrow directly under the eye is in Archery terms a modern tourney development, it certainly increases accuracy. But you don't have to do it if it's not comfortable, it will require tuning to get the arrow to shoot where you look, maybe slightly weaker arrow. I shot Longbow split finger for 15years I couldn't get arrow directly under my eye and managed fine. Ideally gapping directly 6 O'clock is what is desired but shooting Field on tough terrain you learn to be more flexible with those Gaps and have to aiming on a different area on the face, this comes with experience. I would do a drop tune to check arrows aren't too stiff, shoot a large target everything point on and move back, if your arrows progressively go left then it's more a tune issue than string position.


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## kentsabrina (Aug 23, 2017)

traditional longbow does not have a window/rest cutout hence no centershot/near centershot, so putting the nock under ur eye doesn't help the alignment as much as doing it on modern trad recurve, n split finger does hinder beneath the eye anchor. Therefore u need to play strict by the book on arrows to overcome archer paradox.

But for consistence, when I shoot a horsebow (no rest no cut out like traditional longbow) n dont use thumb draw, I still align the nock beneath my eye n shoot 3 under. # My horsebow is @ 45 lbs, shooting the same set of correctly spined arrows for all my 40lbs recurves.


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

I wonder how you find the middle ( center to be more accurate ) of the arrow when you shoot gap - as you said. It is a form problem not gap aiming system problem per se.


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## Smokedinpa (Mar 1, 2015)

I moved my anchor from middle finger corner of mouth to pointer finger in the cease of my nose touching the eye tooth. When my form is good the arrows go where there supposed to. Experiment.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Check the string blur for consistency. That and/or arrows are stiff.


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## Hoff1967 (Sep 18, 2012)

Yes. I never noticed it when shooting instinctive but right before release if I stop my concentration and look at the tip it is right of the target. I guess I just subconsciously allowed for the right arrow tip shooting instinctive.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

Hoff, reread what Steven Morley stated. 

Just because a bare shaft flies straight doesn't mean your tuned. If the bow doesn't have enough energy to make the shaft bend it can fly straight. Now if your bare and fletched impact together at 30, I don't feel this is the problem.

I would then point at form problem called collapse. If you're right handed and you collapse your arrow will fly to the left.

Or depending on what kind of bow you're shooting move the button right. I had a longbow once that I took off the strike plate and rasped the window to make it more center shot. You can do the same thing with a weaker arrow.

Look at it this way your grouping at 30 and I'd bet the size of those groups are smaller than your instinctive groups at 30. Iron out this problem and start grouping at 35.

Bowmania


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Bowmania said:


> Hoff, reread what Steven Morley stated.
> 
> Just because a bare shaft flies straight doesn't mean your tuned. If the bow doesn't have enough energy to make the shaft bend it can fly straight. Now if your bare and fletched impact together at 30, I don't feel this is the problem.
> 
> ...


+1 I personally could not care less about bare shafts. I don't shoot them for score or hunting - I shoot arrows that are on the weak side to get them to hit vertically in line with where I am aiming.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Much good advice.

I would add, the finger at the corner of the mouth is not really an anchor, since the corner of the mouth, to a degree, can follow your finger. If you aren't already, I would suggest anchoring such that your rear thumb knuckle is behind/below your draw, such that your elbow is rotated enough behind you so that you don't actually have to hold the string/nock against your anchor, rather you are simply 'floating' and touching at anchor for reference. This has been useful for me, both in reducing tension in the arm and forearm/fingers, but also in consistently obtaining the arrow under the eye without having to lean into the string.

Also, sometimes I find when I'm shooting left, it is because of bow arm 'flail'. If I focus on pushing the bow arm directly forward, to the target, this most often helps. Don't know if it applies to you, but worth considering, as it also improves shooting accuracy.

Failing getting the eye over the shaft or tuning the bow/arrow/you, and you don't want to cant, there's nothing wrong with not using the center of the arrow. You can use the edge of the shaft as your horizontal aiming reference, or laterally 'gap', like "half a point/shaft width to the left" or whatever. When you think about it, that's what people most often do when using a sight. You can line up a pin right over the shaft, but if you've got great tuning, the bow is working for you at all distances, you going to start messing with it, or just move the pin? Granted, not the same thing, but not entirely different either.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Hoff1967 said:


> Yes. I never noticed it when shooting instinctive but right before release if I stop my concentration and look at the tip it is right of the target. I guess I just subconsciously allowed for the right arrow tip shooting instinctive.


For most Gappers their focus is on the spot they want to hit and they just have an awareness of the Arrow/Gap. When I peeked at the gap BT was eased off and nearly always resulted in a left impact. It's tricky to give advice on Forums because we can't see you shoot, so we can only give you things to eliminate to establish if it's Form or Tune. As I said learning gap is a slow process as you have to ingrain the Gap to get past that peeking stage to allow you to make a good execution. Pick a distance your normally confident with i.e. 20y and ingrain that one Gap first.


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## Hoff1967 (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks for all the info! I am going to try canting for a while to try to get the arrow nock closer to the center of my eye. I've always considered myself a pretty good instinctive shooter but even though I'm having trouble with the left impact I'm shooting considerably smaller groups gap shooting at 30 yards than I normally shoot at 20 yards instinctively so I'm going to continue practicing gap shooting. I will try to post again in a few weeks after I've given the canting a try and update with my results. Once again the info is greatly appreciated!


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Don't discount the fact that you may need to make a center shot adjustment on your bow. Using the point gives you a solid, repeatable reference and is a better test of whether you bow is set up correctly.


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## Riz! (Jan 22, 2017)

@hoff1967 I use a gap shooting method. I found when I started that if I held my bow perfectly vertical that my arrows would hit left. I started canting my bow to around 130 on a clock and it brought my shots right inline with the center of my arrows. I found that 3 under with my index finger in the corner of my mouth lined the arrouw up perfectly under my eye. My arrows flew very well even with the vertically held bow. I may have had slightly over spined arrows too. They flew even better when i went from 145 grain to 175gr field points


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

Barney brings up an interesting point that a lot of us forget. The corner of the mouth anchor is not just corner of the mouth, it also includes the first knuckle of the hand in the cheek bone and jaw bone in the 'C' created by the thumb and forefinger.

Centershot, no one scores or hunts with bare shafts. Feathers correct mistakes. Try practicing with bare shafts. It separates the men from the boys!!! 

Bowmania


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Hank, Barney, and Bowmania are spot-on. Firm-up the anchor and retune. The symptoms described are that of a stiff arrow, which could be (A) a stiff shaft, and/or (B) altered anchor point, and/or (C) changed horizontal alignment. I would re-baseline... Set your anchor, watch the string blur, find your point-on distance, shoot for groups, and then, when groups are tight and observable, bareshaft tune. Bareshaft first at 10ym to ensure it is not wildly off and missing the bale, then bareshaft at 20y. You can go farther back if you like, but 20 yards is usually plenty. I hope this helps - good luck!


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## cubefx (May 8, 2012)

Here is my 2c. I have exactly the same problem as you do. Unless I cant the bow, break my wrist or short draw, I can not place the nock under my eye. I am not sure if it is my face bone structure or something else.
I decided to live with it. My point at 20 yards is exactly 8" to the right and 8" low. Roughly 4:30 at the kill zone on 3D target. Once you shoot for a while it is very manageable. My average on blue face 300 round mid 270s.


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## Bavarian Hart (Jul 23, 2017)

I am hoping to try gapping and was discouraged to see the other changes I would have to make to get the point at 6:00 o'clock. I was then encouraged to see cubefx's post saying he does fine with 4:30, and Mr. Morley's suggestion that the gap sometimes needs to be flexible in rough terrain. Is there anything horrible about using 4:30, or 3:00? I'm just trying to take the next step.


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## EHartkopf (Aug 7, 2017)

So I am a relatively new shooter and I had the same problem when I implement my gap. I found that when I make a conscious effort the keep my bow arm up and completly in-line with my shoulders, the problem disappeared almost instantly.


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## cubefx (May 8, 2012)

Bavarian Hart said:


> I am hoping to try gapping and was discouraged to see the other changes I would have to make to get the point at 6:00 o'clock. I was then encouraged to see cubefx's post saying he does fine with 4:30, and Mr. Morley's suggestion that the gap sometimes needs to be flexible in rough terrain. Is there anything horrible about using 4:30, or 3:00? I'm just trying to take the next step.


They are not aligning the string, and I believe they are Gap/POA shooters.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Both Byron and Howard cant the bow some and I do believe they are and were pretty fair shooters and of course I jest.....but I tried to can't the bow a couple years ago and it didn't work that well for me but since I decided to gap shoot and raise my anchor to just above my mustache, I shrunk my gap considerably.....Now, at 20yds, my gap under the X ring is 4".......it is easy for me to split shoot......Now, if I can just get over this dang shoulder thing, I will be out there working on my HFAA score........


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## Brian N (Aug 14, 2014)

I shot left for a long time (but only about 2-3 inches not 8 inches - at 20 yards) My form suffered from 1 - griping the bow as the arrow was loose 2- collapse 3- not getting my anchor in tight and along with that my string blur was not aligned with the arrow. Over the last few months I've been working on all and have mostly eliminated the problem. Still, for me, collapse is the most difficult to detect - until after the shot when it winds up low and left.


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

Being aware of problems with collapse eliminates 75% of them. Lunger


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Face shape plays a role. For me I need to tilt my head to get behind the arrows without hitting my nose. It's consistent and from what I've seen not unusual among some of the better shooters.
I anchor fairly far out with string blur on the outside of the riser.


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## tpcowfish (Aug 11, 2008)

Maybe try a wrist sling, fingers tucked, will tell if ur grabbing the bow at shot


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