# Law Suit - Hunt club - Landowner settle



## Dchiefransom (Jan 16, 2006)

So, when the guy took legal action the dogs suddenly stayed off his property? I thought dogs couldn't read? How did they know not to go there?


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

That's easy, they hunted in a manner to avoid the dogs entering his land. Funny they claim they can't do that but when a lawsuit was on the horizon they somehow figured out a way. Imagine that? Goes to show they can do it when they want to. Just requires a little effort and respect for the landowner.


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## knob (Nov 27, 2009)

"In his agreement with Railey, Lytle agreed to never publicly discuss the state's Right to Retrieve Law unless required to by subpoena or other governmental authority."

What, he can't publicly discuss the state's Right to Retrieve Law? Some secret law or what?


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

knob said:


> "In his agreement with Railey, Lytle agreed to never publicly discuss the state's Right to Retrieve Law unless required to by subpoena or other governmental authority."
> 
> What, he can't publicly discuss the state's Right to Retrieve Law? Some secret law or what?


Guess they don't want anyone that beat the chasers to rally others. The RTR law excludes a person from criminal prosecution in trespassing to get their dog. It doesn't exclude them from civil actions. That's what the 2 successful suits against the chasers have done. They sued civilly and won. Any landowner can. The doggers don't want that to be known or become a common practice. 

Still the big picture is it's eventually going to have to be changed as more and more get tired of dogs and chasing on their land.


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## AR_Headhunter (Aug 17, 2009)

knob said:


> "In his agreement with Railey, Lytle agreed to never publicly discuss the state's Right to Retrieve Law unless required to by subpoena or other governmental authority."
> 
> What, he can't publicly discuss the state's Right to Retrieve Law? Some secret law or what?


The chasers do not want the general public to know that the RTR law is unconstitutional. Sooner or later someone is going to take it all the way & it will mark the beginning of the end for deer dogs in Virginia. You guys should also read all the comments to that story.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

Hey all, I'm kinda new at this RTR thing. I want to do what I can to get it abolished. My question now is, why hasn't someone actually followed all the way through with this sort of law suit to show it's unconstitutional, and therefore set a pressident for others to follow. It seems to me that if that happened it would go a long way to getting the law overturned. I'm sure the answer is allot more complicated than I'm making it sound, but I just can't get over how Virginia would pass a law making it legal for "anyone" to tresspass on posted property and "trample" property owners rights?


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## AR_Headhunter (Aug 17, 2009)

va limbhanger said:


> Hey all, I'm kinda new at this RTR thing. I want to do what I can to get it abolished. My question now is, why hasn't someone actually followed all the way through with this sort of law suit to show it's unconstitutional, and therefore set a pressident for others to follow. It seems to me that if that happened it would go a long way to getting the law overturned. I'm sure the answer is allot more complicated than I'm making it sound, but I just can't get over how Virginia would pass a law making it legal for "anyone" to tresspass on posted property and "trample" property owners rights?


Because people are bought off. Sooner or later they will face someone who can not be bought off & the RTR law will be history.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

AR_Headhunter said:


> Because people are bought off. Sooner or later they will face someone who can not be bought off & the RTR law will be history.


I don't really want to wait for or if that day comes! Does anyone have any suggestions of what the average bowhunter can do to expedite this? As I said, I'm unfamilliar to this way of thinking, but I've had enough and I want to be with the people when it's time to make a stand for new legislation. I've contacted VDGIF for questions, however now that I think about it, why would they want to help someone who is trying to take away the right given to a certain group of hunters?


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## AR_Headhunter (Aug 17, 2009)

va limbhanger said:


> I don't really want to wait for or if that day comes! Does anyone have any suggestions of what the average bowhunter can do to expedite this? As I said, I'm unfamilliar to this way of thinking, but I've had enough and I want to be with the people when it's time to make a stand for new legislation. I've contacted VDGIF for questions, however now that I think about it, why would they want to help someone who is trying to take away the right given to a certain group of hunters?


Here is my advice. If you have dog runners violating your personal property rights then sue in civil court & refuse to settle. Offer the attorney all the $ awarded in your case for representation but only if he challenges the constitutionality of the RTR law. Most attorneys will jump on that offer. You could very easily be the one to get it stopped in Virginia. It would be even better if you could get others to join you & make it a class action suit. :wink:


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

Thanks for the advice. I will have to look deeper into this matter (locally) to see if the county government has a side in this? Maybe they can also point me in the right direction? I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm not just going to let this go either. Maybe I can do some research on past violations to see how they were handled. Maybe I should just start buying up small parcels of land adjacent to hunt clubs who run dogs on deer and start filing law suits for property right infringments? Not sure if it would make me a rich man, but it just might:wink:


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## AR_Headhunter (Aug 17, 2009)

Sounds like a great "investment" strategy.


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## Buksknr53 (Mar 30, 2006)

I usually hang up my bow when the general firearms season starts because of the increase of hunters in the woods and the dogs will cause the deer to go noctournal. Lost dogs wondering through the woods will also ruin a well planned bow hunt. I also enjoy hunting with a dog running club that takes pride in doing things right. We don't road hunt or go onto the property of others because we lease and hunt on large tracts of land. We also use dogs that will not run deer into the next county and will not come back for days. I have had many hunts ruined during bow season from free roaming "house dogs". The big problem is not just with deer dogs, but with dogs in general. Most rural counties don't have leash laws and owners let their dogs roam freely. Another problem with hunting deer with dogs is enforcement of the laws. There are not enough CO's to enforce the laws, so a lot of people do as they please. I found out last year that there are only 2 CO's in the area that I hunt, and they have to police 2 other counties. Talk about a mission impossible! I would love to see a law that restricts using dogs on small parcels of land. If you turn deer dogs loose on say 50 acres of land, you're asking for trouble.
I don't know if there will ever be a compromise between landowners, bow hunters and dog runners, but if all concerned don't find a way to get along, hunting will be hurt on a grand scale.


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## AR_Headhunter (Aug 17, 2009)

Buksknr53 said:


> I usually hang up my bow when the general firearms season starts because of the increase of hunters in the woods and the dogs will cause the deer to go noctournal. Lost dogs wondering through the woods will also ruin a well planned bow hunt. I also enjoy hunting with a dog running club that takes pride in doing things right. We don't road hunt or go onto the property of others because we lease and hunt on large tracts of land. We also use dogs that will not run deer into the next county and will not come back for days. I have had many hunts ruined during bow season from free roaming "house dogs". The big problem is not just with deer dogs, but with dogs in general. Most rural counties don't have leash laws and owners let their dogs roam freely. Another problem with hunting deer with dogs is enforcement of the laws. There are not enough CO's to enforce the laws, so a lot of people do as they please. I found out last year that there are only 2 CO's in the area that I hunt, and they have to police 2 other counties. Talk about a mission impossible! I would love to see a law that restricts using dogs on small parcels of land. If you turn deer dogs loose on say 50 acres of land, you're asking for trouble.
> I don't know if there will ever be a compromise between landowners, bow hunters and dog runners, but if all concerned don't find a way to get along, hunting will be hurt on a grand scale.


If more of the people who use deer dogs had your attitude we would not even be having this discussion.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

AR_Headhunter said:


> If more of the people who use deer dogs had your attitude we would not even be having this discussion.


+ 1:thumbs_up

The big problem is the group that represents the dog hunters doesn't want to compromise any at all. They feel it would be the beginning of the end or something. Instead of taking it head on and working to some kind of working solution, which is coming one day, they would rather do nothing. That attitude won't help them in the end or when the time comes.


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## goldfish (Sep 16, 2007)

i may have to try this i am having huge issues with clubs running dogs on my land.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

va limbhanger said:


> Thanks for the advice. I will have to look deeper into this matter (locally) to see if the county government has a side in this? Maybe they can also point me in the right direction? I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm not just going to let this go either. Maybe I can do some research on past violations to see how they were handled. Maybe I should just start buying up small parcels of land adjacent to hunt clubs who run dogs on deer and start filing law suits for property right infringments? Not sure if it would make me a rich man, but it just might:wink:


Thanks for posting your true intentions on here for the whole HUNTING world to see and also any JUDGE for that matter. Loads of ill-intent and conspiricy to really help in your fight with the RTR law. As too you are the original thread starter of the debat that was locked yesterday.....

Keep it coming......:thumbs_up


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

va limbhanger said:


> Thanks for the advice. I will have to look deeper into this matter (locally) to see if the county government has a side in this? Maybe they can also point me in the right direction? I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm not just going to let this go either. Maybe I can do some research on past violations to see how they were handled. Maybe I should just start buying up small parcels of land adjacent to hunt clubs who run dogs on deer and start filing law suits for property right infringments? Not sure if it would make me a rich man, but it just might:wink:


Your local BOARD OF SUPERVISOR is Emmit MARSHAL he is a proud member of Berkley Hunt Club and a VERY LARGE PRIVATE LANDOWNER in Spotsylvania and a Deer Houndsmen himself.

Spotsylvania "The Board of Supervisors" have passed a resolution in favor of the TRADITION of using dogs to hunt Deer.....

Fire away...........your best bet is to run for a local supervisor seat....


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

AR_Headhunter said:


> Here is my advice. If you have dog runners violating your personal property rights then sue in civil court & refuse to settle. Offer the attorney all the $ awarded in your case for representation but only if he challenges the constitutionality of the RTR law. Most attorneys will jump on that offer. You could very easily be the one to get it stopped in Virginia. It would be even better if you could get others to join you & make it a class action suit. :wink:


Lawyer and Legal advise coming from a person that lives on a COMPOUND in the middle of the Ozarks with a town population of 10 and a cute puggy looking dog with teeth, unlike the rest...........


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

va limbhanger said:


> Thanks for the advice. I will have to look deeper into this matter (locally) to see if the county government has a side in this? Maybe they can also point me in the right direction? I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm not just going to let this go either. Maybe I can do some research on past violations to see how they were handled. Maybe I should just start buying up small parcels of land adjacent to hunt clubs who run dogs on deer and start filing law suits for property right infringments? Not sure if it would make me a rich man, but it just might:wink:


:zip: I go to visit your profile and current activity says modifing your profile......:wink:


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

MTNHunt,

I did jokingly say some things at the end of this post that were not in good taste. I admit to that being wrong, but as far as the RTR law, it's a matter of time before it's abolished! Comon sense tells me that a law got passed when people were looking the other way, but the more time goes on the closer it is to the end of the RTR law! I've said before, allot of hunters who are against the RTR law are against "hound Hunting" also. I understand that it is a embedded tradition for some still in Virginia and am trying not to speak out against it, although so far I have failed. I am a hunter first and a bowhunter second. Even though hound hunters and bowhunters are hunters just the same, I truley doubt they will ever stand together! One thing I fail so far to understand is if you are in favor of the RTR law as a hunter, how can you, in all honesty be in favor of it if you are a property owner? As far as me modifying my profile nothing has been modified. I just don't want to become the victim of a drive by vandalizm! Is there something in there you were looking for?


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## chuckl (May 19, 2009)

va limbhanger said:


> One thing I fail so far to understand is if you are in favor of the RTR law as a hunter, how can you, in all honesty be in favor of it if you are a property owner?


i would like to answer this one..............
as a hound hunter and property owner i understand the need to retrieve the dog,as written the law is good.get in get out period.
i understand the abuse and i and others worked hard this year to curtail the abuse as much as we could around the whole state. 
let me ask this......if the rtr was abolished FOR DEER HUNTERS but left intact for the bear,****,and rabbit would you be so gun ho on getting it done away with?


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

MTNHunt said:


> you are the original thread starter of the debat that was locked yesterday.....thumbs_up


That is true, but I was not one of the main contributers as to why it was locked! Live and learn I guess is what you could say?! Had I known that you and a few others were going to start throwing bombs at each other and be the reason for having it locked, I would have not posted at all.:wink:


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

chuckl said:


> i would like to answer this one..............
> as a hound hunter and property owner i understand the need to retrieve the dog,as written the law is good.get in get out period.
> i understand the abuse and i and others worked hard this year to curtail the abuse as much as we could around the whole state.
> let me ask this......if the rtr was abolished FOR DEER HUNTERS but left intact for the bear,****,and rabbit would you be so gun ho on getting it done away with?


Absolutley! I don't know if this is a trick question, but why would any property owner, anywhere be in favor of having a law making it legal for someone to come onto your posted land legally? I know I'm getting blacklisted as a "hound hunting hater", and I guess with some of my comments I made that is what I diserve, but I'm only against the RTR law, that's it! In some ways I feel for you "hound hunters", and I'm speaking about the ones who do it legally all the time, because I go on other National and state hunting forums and there's allot of hatred toward hound hunters. I would say that bowhunters make up the biggest part. When it comes to the RTR law I don't care who you are, it's just plain wrong!


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

va limbhanger said:


> MTNHunt,
> 
> I did jokingly say some things at the end of this post that were not in good taste. I admit to that being wrong, but as far as the RTR law, it's a matter of time before it's abolished! Comon sense tells me that a law got passed when people were looking the other way, but the more time goes on the closer it is to the end of the RTR law! I've said before, allot of hunters who are against the RTR law are against "hound Hunting" also. I understand that it is a embedded tradition for some still in Virginia and am trying not to speak out against it, although so far I have failed. I am a hunter first and a bowhunter second. Even though hound hunters and bowhunters are hunters just the same, I truley doubt they will ever stand together! One thing I fail so far to understand is if you are in favor of the RTR law as a hunter, how can you, in all honesty be in favor of it if you are a property owner? As far as me modifying my profile nothing has been modified. I just don't want to become the victim of a drive by vandalizm! Is there something in there you were looking for?


As far as the the profile, I just wanted to see who you are in a sense of being from Virginia.....I am a law abiding citizen. As far as the RTR law it is not a very big problem to me.......I would alway first seek approval before I went on anybodies private property to retrieve one of my dogs. Asking permission goes a LONG way and you would be surprised at many landowners who find the comfort in being that curtious. 

Then, you do have some anti-hunters in general who will kidnap your dog, steal it and think they are doing the animal world a favor.

That is what kills me, most hunters in general whether still, bowhunters or dogs are the ones fighting over this. I HOPE EVERY UNLAWFUL HUNTER who uses the RTR law to hunt personal property of others get a BIG FAT ticket and their club gets kicked out of there lease land they hunt. 

MOST simply associate the RTR law for Deer dog hunters, and that is far from the truth. Many other game has been chased onto other peoples property and the houndsman have to have a way of retrieving there dog. IE Rabbit hunting, bird, ****, bear etc it all goes on during deer season.

Like I have said before, why is that a Whitetail deer is placed any higher on the totem pole that any other game species you can hunt? I have friends who would careless about a stupid deer, but would drool all over a canvas back duck, or a Big Gobbling turkey. 

The Answer to me is the tradition of hunting itself has gone overboard in the relentless commercialization of BUCK MANIA. Selling horns, shooting bucks and cutting the horns off and letting the meat rot, etc. Hunting in general has so many enemies, then why be one of them? Why is my choice of legally using dogs for deer any less ethical than shooting them with a Bow?

It is simple for me, I STAND UP FOR ALL LEGAL METHODS of hunting, period.


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

va limbhanger said:


> That is true, but I was not one of the main contributers as to why it was locked! Live and learn I guess is what you could say?! Had I known that you and a few others were going to start throwing bombs at each other and be the reason for having it locked, I would have not posted at all.:wink:


I think it is pretty obvious from the poll after the lock thread that ARheadhunter views are very bad to the majority of posters/hunters on here. 

All the post or threads from him are to stir the pot and ban some form of hunting if he doesn't approve of it. Even if it is legal. I highly doubt he has any problems with deerhound on his property, and most on here can see the same......


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## thumperjack (May 22, 2009)

"The biggest threat to hunting these days is when hunters using differing techniques fight against each other''.
>>>>>> that putting in a nutshell there! <<<<<<<


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

MTNHunt,

As I've said before, I wish all hound hunters had your intentions! I don't intentionally discriminate against any form of legal hunting. The RTR law puts allot of people on the fence when it comes to hound hunting. For now, I see hound hunters as a deep rooted, pasionate, hard hunting group! I don't hunt with hounds and mostly bowhunt, but we are both hunters the same!


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

va limbhanger said:


> MTNHunt,
> 
> As I've said before, I wish all hound hunters had your intentions! I don't intentionally discriminate against any form of legal hunting. The RTR law puts allot of people on the fence when it comes to hound hunting. For now, I see hound hunters as a deep rooted, pasionate, hard hunting group! I don't hunt with hounds and mostly bowhunt, but we are both hunters the same!


Right back at ya! I wish I had an answer that would solve the RTR issue, but I don't. I learned a long time ago everything changes, but it doesn't mean you can't stand up for what you believe in. There has to be some meeting point, and I don't dispute that. For now the best advice I can follow in the Deer Dog Hunting Community is to use the RTR law legally and with respect. I know I have been labeled a just another DEER DOG HUNTER who knows it all, but honestly I am just a HUNTER. 

I wish to one day, to do a BOW hunt, spot and stalk for game out west and if I had money to do a BEAR hunt and it would be with a BOW. A matter of fact, any money I would spend on a "Trip Hunt" would be Bow only. Hogs included. I guess I am trying to say "I Love Bowhunting" I wouldn't have so much money in it or on here if I didn't. 

And I like AT because it is alot of GREAT info on here about ARCHERY.


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## va limbhanger (Dec 12, 2008)

MTNHunt,

I'll say this about you brother, as a hunter you deffinatly get your money's worth!! It seems like you just about do it all:thumbs_up


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