# WA or iBO 3D



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I am throwing this out to compound, Trad, RU, LB and Xbow competitive 3D shooters in Ontario or other provinces. Do you, outside your own province, shoot either WA or iBO 3D events? Also, would it make more sense to you if your provincial Assc followed North American iBO regs or the WA regs. 
I have to admit that both back in Britain and here I have never met anyone who's shot a WA3D event, all the guys I know shoot IFAA or iBO outside their own countries shoots so I'm interested to see how many here prefer one or the other.


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

As I mentioned in the other tread, out west we see mostly rineharts and as clubs get new targets that seems to be the way they go. Our rules and classes wouldn't be to far off either. Going to an IBO event would be cheaper/possible. Don't think 3D is a globally universal game its divided by a big ocean. lol. On this one I wish we would play by the N.A. rules. Only WA targets I have seen are pictures in a book....


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Hoytalpha35 said:


> As I mentioned in the other tread, out west we see mostly rineharts and as clubs get new targets that seems to be the way they go. Our rules and classes wouldn't be to far off either. Going to an IBO event would be cheaper/possible. Don't think 3D is a globally universal game its divided by a big ocean. lol. On this one I wish we would play by the N.A. rules. Only WA targets I have seen are pictures in a book....


3D is huge over the pond as it's a family sport because of no hunting.


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

How about OAA?
We are in Ontario after al


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

shakyshot said:


> How about OAA?
> We are in Ontario after al


The bit "outside your own province" was the point here. I am just interested to see which international body gets the most dollars from Canadian shooters. That might help the provincial bodies decide on rule changes etc. For example, if most who travel to bigger shoots go to WA events, it makes sense to follow their classes. If most go to NFAA, then follow theirs. If it's iBO, follow theirs.
It's not just here, I wish all federations would standardize on bow styles to make life easier for shooters.


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## Jbsendnit (Sep 23, 2012)

For me it has more to do with the venue and its date than the rules.. If it sounds like its worth attending, i'm going regardless of the format.. Seems like there are a lot more appealing IBO events than the others. For that reason only i find myself attending/planning to attend more IBO events.. 

I dont pay much attention to tournament format and rules.. i bring my equipment, get put in the proper class and shoot, wether i'm aiming at a 12 ring, an 11 or an eyeball it makes no difference as everyone is shooting for the same spots from the same peg so its all relative. If i loose, its never because im not familiar to the tournaments format its because the arrows diddnt go where i wanted them too, the tounrnaments format wouldn't have changed that..

just go with what is easiest... sooo, leave it all alone it seemed to be working just fine


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

Bigjono said:


> The bit "outside your own province" was the point here. I am just interested to see which international body gets the most dollars from Canadian shooters. That might help the provincial bodies decide on rule changes etc. For example, if most who travel to bigger shoots go to WA events, it makes sense to follow their classes. If most go to NFAA, then follow theirs. If it's iBO, follow theirs.
> It's not just here, I wish all federations would standardize on bow styles to make life easier for shooters.


Those other Federations exist because archers felt that the Organisation inplace didn't serve their needs and started their own. AC holds both the WA and IFAA affiliations, shooters in Ontario prefer the IFAA round which came into play by the now defunked CFAA. The main difference is that WA requires a qualifying standard and the IFAA is and open Championship, simply hold a valid membership and go. Both these organisations have member Countries as voting members, that in itself leads to a more World approach to divisions, classes, rules etc and may take several years to effect change. As for most dollars spent on which Org. WA would lead that pack by a bunch since its been around alot longer.

No matter which Organisation you choose to play in Ontario lacks both memberships and volunteers to be everything to everyone, for 2014 the OAA will most likely have IBO classes for all BH divisions in all OAA Championships so things can change


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Bigjono said:


> I wish all federations would standardize on bow styles to make life easier for shooters.


That kind of made me laugh. It's because shooters want all these different bow styles that all these various federations exist. 

The only way we are ever going to get unified rules worldwide and include all archers everywhere, is for one organization to make itself so attractive that everyone joins and the others fall by the wayside. But that ain't gonna happen, because when an organization expands classes to include more people, it drives an equal number away by becoming too messy and cluttered.


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## stjoebowhunter (Mar 12, 2011)

I went to my first IBO last year and I will go back to more this year. I'm not wasting time or money going to the OAA 3d champs this year when I can go to the IBO shoots cheaper and and they are better run.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

FiFi said:


> Those other Federations exist because archers felt that the Organisation inplace didn't serve their needs and started their own. AC holds both the WA and IFAA affiliations, shooters in Ontario prefer the IFAA round which came into play by the now defunked CFAA. The main difference is that WA requires a qualifying standard and the IFAA is and open Championship, simply hold a valid membership and go. Both these organisations have member Countries as voting members, that in itself leads to a more World approach to divisions, classes, rules etc and may take several years to effect change. As for most dollars spent on which Org. WA would lead that pack by a bunch since its been around alot longer.
> 
> No matter which Organisation you choose to play in Ontario lacks both memberships and volunteers to be everything to everyone, for 2014 the OAA will most likely have IBO classes for all BH divisions in all OAA Championships so things can change


I agree with you that for field the IFAA is the way to go but it would be interesting to know how many Canadians have competed in the last 2 or 3 WA3D champs or even the WBHC.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Stash said:


> That kind of made me laugh. It's because shooters want all these different bow styles that all these various federations exist.
> 
> The only way we are ever going to get unified rules worldwide and include all archers everywhere, is for one organization to make itself so attractive that everyone joins and the others fall by the wayside. But that ain't gonna happen, because when an organization expands classes to include more people, it drives an equal number away by becoming too messy and cluttered.


No dig at compounds here but really, do they need the ridiculous number of classes that are around now. Go to a well run open shoot like Halton and there's a table full of sign in sheets, all with 2 or 3 names on, really????? A simplified federation with 3 compound classes, Trad, LB and BB would be a breath of fresh air I think.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

stjoebowhunter said:


> I went to my first IBO last year and I will go back to more this year. I'm not wasting time or money going to the OAA 3d champs this year when I can go to the IBO shoots cheaper and and they are better run.


That's kind of the way I've been for 3yrs but I really want to support the OAA as well now.
Here's radical for you. Make the OAA 3D champs a co sanctioned iBO shoot too. It's worked in TX and CA so bringing their bandwagon here might raise the profile of the event and bring shooters across the border too.
I will no doubt hear how this can't be done but I think it might really kick start 3D here.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Bigjono said:


> A simplified federation with 3 compound classes, Trad, LB and BB would be a breath of fresh air I think.


Or maybe an even more simplified federation with just one compound class, LB, BB and some sort of trad class - let's call it "instinctive"? Maybe toss in a sighted recurve division for those who insist on it for some target events.


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Stash said:


> Or maybe an even more simplified federation with just one compound class, LB, BB and some sort of trad class - let's call it "instinctive"? Maybe toss in a sighted recurve division for those who insist on it for some target events.


Hey Stash, what categories does WA offer?


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Stash said:


> Or maybe an even more simplified federation with just one compound class, LB, BB and some sort of trad class - let's call it "instinctive"? Maybe toss in a sighted recurve division for those who insist on it for some target events.


No ones talking target here, just 3D. An Unlimited, Limited and Bsrebow should be enough for 3D compound surely.


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

Bigjono said:


> No dig at compounds here but really, do they need the ridiculous number of classes that are around now. Go to a well run open shoot like Halton and there's a table full of sign in sheets, all with 2 or 3 names on, really????? A simplified federation with 3 compound classes, Trad, LB and BB would be a breath of fresh air I think.


No offence.
You shoot a Olympic style recurve bow with a stab and call it trad??
Go to shoot and have fun.
Ilike 3D.
But this type of complaining is why I don't go to many at all!!
Bottom line.
If you don't like the way the shoots are run around here then go south!
Shoot IBO or WA. But please, this I so ongoing on here.
Step up.Take the reins.Make the changes you want.
But please stop whining that "knowone" has the set to do something about it!!
Grow your own set and do it!!


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

We will see how fast the OAA board sets up the Division Committees to look at this issue and how open it is made for input from the membership. Not to put a fire under any ones feet but it has been an issue for a long.........long.........time. Funny but if you looked at the Mail Match Forum from last year it was a mine field to get it done and then figure out who goes where even for the club contacts! lol


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## ontario3-d'r (Feb 17, 2012)

What are all these compound classes that are being spoken of? I don't understand! There is Compound - (anything goes) BHUnlimited - (pins and release) BHLimited - (pins and fingers) and barebow. What else is there? The OPEN division is just that - OPEN. Anyone can shoot it. A crossbow is allowed and traditional is allowed. It is OPEN. You cannot put Scopes and Pins in the same division. There are a few guys that can shoot with the scope guys, but not many. Combine the two categories and watch the attendance drop even further than it already is. Definitely not a good idea to reduce categories when the problem is not enough attendance. Besides, the IBO has the four categories, same as the OAA.


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## stjoebowhunter (Mar 12, 2011)

The IBO has way more then four classes and it would be nice if we shot the same distance here as in IBO!!


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

shakyshot said:


> No offence.
> You shoot a Olympic style recurve bow with a stab and call it trad??
> Go to shoot and have fun.
> Ilike 3D.
> ...


Ok mouth, where did I say no one had a set of anything and I don't shoot an Olympic recurve I shoot RU and I don't shoot trad class I either shoot BB, CU or non competitive so if I were you id think before you try and speak.
Things are being done behind the scenes so changes are coming I don't doubt and believe it or not, this is what forums are for, to exchange ideas and express views. I have mine you have yours, that's just the way it is.


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

Ok.
Your right. Everyone does have an opinion.
So.....My question is this.
Why do we in Ontario Canada need to conform to what the US or the UK are doing?
I would really like to know!!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

we follow world fita for 3-d so our team is in line with their classes .... do we need too. Personally I think not ...they have gone to wooden risers only in trad class ....to each his own... I shoot trad or barebow or ru basically we use a recurves and no sights. .... tough enough to shoot ... Ibo gets 1400-1500 people at there shoots and 15 separate courses set up for the weekend ...and it is an honour to be in the top 20 let alone top 5 in your class .. we are lucky in Canada to get 240 at nationals and 130 at provincials ...as I attend these shoots...we need oaa and archery canada to attend these shoots and maybe pick up some pointers ...I know here in Canada we have a volunteer base ..I would gladly pay double my fees for membership if we could put some one on staff that is motivated to make archery in CANADA as successful as in the usa..Hope someday this can happen.. This usually takes a business man or previous company or successful business owner...Also we have way to many age groups ..I run my tournament with 3 age groups up to 16 yrs of age ..at 17 your an adult or are in senior division.. these kids per say pull 60 lb bows and can see like eagles ...lol lol plus it spurs them on to beat the crap out of us seasoned shooters...and they shoot from the adult pegs as well ..Most of the kids have top line equipment as well.. just some thoughts


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

We don't follow WA rules for 3D at all, we use mostly IBO rules for 3D as listed in the OAA book, As for age groups ya we have a lot, and I feel could par it down a few for sure but like anything changes happen to those who act upon them. The original age categories for the OAA 3D Champs was cub, junior and senior with senior starting at 17, that lasted 2 years before the membership changed it. I feel the main problem with 3D in Ontario is the never ending changes to rules, ages, equipment, Fita Field never took off in Ontario because it was constantly being changed this is why IFAA is most popular here, its the same round/rules as it was 40 years ago. If the rules committee moves to have the 3D equipment divisions the same in target/field/indoors we will have returned to where we were 20 years ago, until the membership changed it to what ever the flavor of the year was



Sean


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

shawn I meant in regards to Canadian team and archery Canada for worlds and any national not provincial.... should of separated venues ..sorry..I also only have trad and compound for the kids eliminates all the categories pretty well and most clubs don`t leave the kids out they all go home with something ...and I agree to many equipement changes. .hunter class was good with 4 inch feathers ... screw in points 35 yd max 12 inch stab and fixed pin ..then you have the average guy /hunter with a class that the back yd guy can shoot his hunting rig and not have to change out for hunting season and make it fingers or release same class..guys now then its the shooter not the rig ...hoping anyway...and trad off the shelf or rest stick on.. no plunger then you can shoot vanes or feathers...kiss method makes it fun again ...shawn do you think we should go back to standardized equipement for all 3 venues like the past and twick it for the new equipement bows / arrows...


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

This thread is all over the place.

Let's take a few steps back and get back to Bigjono's original question about what people prefer, WA or IBO.

We have to ask ourselves first, is there really a demand out there for serious 3D rule change. Some people think that declining numbers are primarily caused by people not liking the rules and either not playing, or taking their business elsewhere. However, there doesn't seem to be any response to the question from anyone other than the usual suspects. Maybe that's a sign that this simply isn't an important issue to more than a small handful of individuals? So, let's step back and first figure out what we want for archery, before flailing around changing rules willy-nilly in the hope we might stumble upon some magic mix of equipment divisions and yardages that satisfies everyone and starts to bring in huge numbers of 3D shooters.

My gut feeling is that this is not by itself a significant issue. Our hugest challenge to participation is that archery is competing with more and more other pastimes which are easier for people to find and enjoy and are cheaper to participate in. 

Under-funded provincial and national associations cannot possibly have the resources to fight this this. What are we expecting - the OAA to take out a 30 second spot on the Grey Cup halftime show or sponsor the NHL playoffs? I think that clubs are doing a good job at the local level in introducing people to archery. My own club's lesson sessions are fully booked, and the target events are as busy as I've seen in 40 years. It's also up to us as individuals to bring in and introduce archery to new people.

So what *is* the issue with 3D and declining numbers? Maybe it's a lot of things working together to produce a perfect storm. Rules that don't include everyone. Over-competitiveness and cheating. Just plain boredom. 8 hours for 40 targets will drive off all but the biggest diehards. Equipment fanboys.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> shawn I meant in regards to Canadian team and archery Canada for worlds and any national not provincial.... should of separated venues ..sorry..I also only have trad and compound for the kids eliminates all the categories pretty well and most clubs don`t leave the kids out they all go home with something ...and I agree to many equipement changes. .hunter class was good with 4 inch feathers ... screw in points 35 yd max 12 inch stab and fixed pin ..then you have the average guy /hunter with a class that the back yd guy can shoot his hunting rig and not have to change out for hunting season and make it fingers or release same class..guys now then its the shooter not the rig ...hoping anyway...and trad off the shelf or rest stick on.. no plunger then you can shoot vanes or feathers...kiss method makes it fun again ...shawn do you think we should go back to standardized equipement for all 3 venues like the past and twick it for the new equipement bows / arrows...



yep absolutely, back then everyone knew what they had and where they fit in, BH Unlimited was the same right across the board, didn't matter where you went or what you where shooting. We and had a 280 rule before ASA was formed, it came from an AMO chart on arrow weight and draw length variables, that got changed to 5gr/lb, we shot 12 ring that got changed, we had 4 age groups that where based on growth and development endorsed by several university studies, that got changed to 8......if the membership wants it changed it gets changed for better or worse. 3D just can't seem to find itself with the seemingly never ending changes


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## hoody123 (Aug 11, 2004)

I used to adore 3D when there was a Shotgun start, only a few classes and you were grouped with people you didn't necessarily know. A 40 target round didn't take too long, it was a hoot. The massive waits and rampant cheating (or at least PERCEPTION of cheating) really took the allure away. If collectively we can't figure out how to speed up a round, I don't think you're likely ever going to get too much repeat business. 

My suggestion - orange dots, no binos.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

hoody123 said:


> I used to adore 3D when there was a Shotgun start, only a few classes and you were grouped with people you didn't necessarily know. A 40 target round didn't take too long, it was a hoot. The massive waits and rampant cheating (or at least PERCEPTION of cheating) really took the allure away. If collectively we can't figure out how to speed up a round, I don't think you're likely ever going to get too much repeat business.
> 
> My suggestion - orange dots, no binos.




There was a proposal once that 2 shot at a time and that the OAA Champs be pared down to 30 targets each day. I agree shot gun starts where the best, it felt like a tournament not just another weekend shoot like random start. I also feel that random start shoots lead to sloppy events, I fully understand why they are popular and why clubs feel they need them,


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

cut shooting time to 1 min per person and things will move a lot quicker ..and I`m for it ..we had 125 shooters at the pandp shoot and we where done daily by 2;30 roughly and then awards ..and novelty shoot..what sped it up was I policed it continuously band if I found a open spot I asked team dogging it to speed up...I have found most clubs do not police courses ..every body paid the same entry fee and should not be held up by a few that think they are entitled ...I must say even in my open cash class the top 4 guys shot very quickly and where not a hold up as peered second day...and if they did ,they let others shoot through if they where like trad guys zipping through the course ...and I am anal about hold ups and empty spots on a course ..and I have seen as many as 4 targets open in front of groups yet it was a shot gun start so all lanes where full to start. .just some thoughts and a minuet is a long time for a shot ..and I not opposed to bino's being used as long as you only take your allotted time ..and don't analize the shot at the target .. score it and get out of there.. discuss as you walk to next target...some thing that could be maybe looked at with new rule committees and as per 2 shooting at once not a good Idea as one person could be on level ground and other not etc etc ... thanks for listening...Hope everybody has a good fall..be safe. I'm going to start a new thread as got carried away here lol


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## XTRMN8R (Mar 26, 2004)

to get back toward the original question, have any of you read the rules regarding running a WA 3d event? if not than go to their web site and have a glance. Read through the faq's. that should tell you why WA 3d is almost non existent around the world.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

XTRMN8R said:


> to get back toward the original question, have any of you read the rules regarding running a WA 3d event? if not than go to their web site and have a glance. Read through the faq's. that should tell you why WA 3d is almost non existent around the world.


Exactly


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