# Improving efficiency of target acquisition



## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

I am trying to minimize the time it takes me to acquire pin on spot, prior to aiming/execution.
So I'm breaking down my shot sequence a bit deeper and found that I've never truly studied the time it takes me to anchor, get pin on spot, and begin aim/execute.
What I found is I waste a lot of time getting comfortable at anchor, then I'm realizing pin is not where it needs to be. I gingerly move the pin over, and am usually towards the end of my comfort time leaving little time to start my aim/execution.
I cannot figure out if this is just a mental block (coach seemed to think so), meaning I'm just being to analytical of establishing anchor.
This is not an issue full time, I go thru periods of time where its much more than others (lots of let downs) and other times where it seems a non issue (I'm sure still room for improvement).
If there's any trend, when it's at it's worse I seem to be settling well outside the 4-5 o'clock direction.
I've worked a lot with footing, stabs, posture, minor DL tweeks and haven't had much luck correcting this.

Can folks break down frame by frame as to how you draw, establish anchor, XXXX, and get to starting the release?
Seems like this will fit in good discussion with recents posts here.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

The way that seems to work for me is to acquire the X before drawing, that is just look at the spot that I want to shoot. First I draw the bow with my release hand a little away from my face. Then bring my hand to my face without moving my head. As my hand comes to my face, it brings the peep and the sight which line up between my eye and the X. 

It probably sounds complicated, but it's just looking at the X, drawing slightly off, then bring the bow to my face without moving my head. Never lose sight of the X. Doing it this way keeps me from moving my head and lets me be on as soon as I reach anchors.

Hopefully someone else my describe it better. It really is pretty simple, just don't move your head and keep your eye on the X.

Allen


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

For me things really started coming together when I did two things:

1. A strong semi pro shooter in my area 3dshooter25 told me to start down drawing.

2. A few months later I decided to draw back and study my float.

For almost a year I did these two things and it is amazing how much I learned from doing them, I became a archery coach and a very strong 3d shooter during this time and the lessons learned are simply beyond awesome. This late winter and early spring I finally had to step back and really take a look at my approach with 3d because I was struggling a little with this exact issue you brought up today, I was just coming off a heavy volume of indoor shooting where I wasn't missing more than one or two x's a week in training shooting 2 or so hours a day and coming outside for 3d shooting the problem came to the surface quickly. 

The problem was my shot was taking so freaking long to get started compared to indoor shooting, when I shoot indoor I use my 3d bow and it has a .19 pin and I set it on 21.5 yards and I aim at the 6'oclock position of the x and the arrow hits a half inch above dead center. For me I come to anchor and my pin just goes there and within a half second of hitting the anchor I start my firing engine and about 3 seconds later the arrow is gone. I can float inside a x for 5 seconds every shot so I don't wait for the pin to settle or become perfect, I just come to anchor and about .5 seconds later I just start my engine.

Well, 3d wasn't the same I was coming to anchor and then settling in on the spot and then making sure it was the right spot and then after about 4 to 5 seconds had gone by I was finally starting my engine and now another 3 or 4 seconds for my firing engine to fire my hinge was happening and now I am way past my optimal float window. I was basically shooting every 3d shot with my secondary crappy float which was good enough to be a top ten guy in open a and win some local shoots but not good enough to win.

The week before paris I made the decision to find my spot to aim at and then when I hit anchor and settle in on the spot about a half second later i was going to simply run my engine. Holy crap I shot 16 up in open a the first day and was tied for first. For the first time ever I was on top of my class looking down and it was the most freaking relaxing shooting I have ever done on a asa pro quality course.

I think you need to study your float and become aware of what it looks like and then accept it as yours, I am proud of my float and it isn't as good as levi morgan but it is pretty freaking awesome. Then once you accept your float pattern as yours then you can move on and when the float starts so does your firing engine and the arrow leaves the bow a few seconds later. Done deal.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Something on the order of aread and Padgett. I know where I want to hit, whether paper or 3D. Pin on the target and normally above where I want to hit, I draw straight back and normally on target. None of the sky drawing stuff. I hold into the wall, not pulling, but staying on the wall - not using up horsepower. My age I can't afford it. On target, aiming, I pull into the wall gently. The shot follows.

Not comfortable with anchor. Perhaps a bow fit issue. All things as they should be, full drawn, the bow comes to you and everything should be right there.... Draw length too long? Peep not where it should be? Over bowed? Feet not "planted," your weight fully down on both feet?

Real test; If all is correct, you can get on target and close your eyes, shoot and if not in the bull's eye, say 20 yards, be dang close on the shot. field14 got me going on this - forget the shooter's name, but Tom lost the bet, twice. Man nailed the bull's eye 5 times twice and healthy share of Xs. I don't now or haven't tried as of late, but did with 2 of my last target bows, both over 40" ata. Yep, stayed in the bull's eye a good number of times and even collected a good share of Xs. Like I said, though, everything as it should be.


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## Blue X (Dec 22, 2007)

Write out what you currently do in your shot sequence like a timeline. Refine it during your search for efficiency and you will end up with a shot sequence you can repeat your whole life. 

the decision to Shoot comes first, aiming comes second.

Blue X


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Reo is one of the best we will ever see as far as "efficiency to anchor". I know it must be something he has worked on since a kid, but think the kisser must help some too. Jesse is great at it too without a kisser. The guys that have to go thru time consuming gyrations in getting to anchor are, imho, losing a small little piece of the battle right there---not that they don't win too. I think you picked on something to work on that can make a difference once perfected. Good luck with it, and let us know how it's coming along.


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

Thanks for the good info.
For whats its worth, I spent a great deal of time with my coach to maintain head position, solid but relaxed form (still trying to dump some tension), and dl/fit. Im much happier now with the efficiency at which I get the bow drawn and anchored....but despite staring down the x before draw and thru to anchor, I cant seem to get the pin to land closer to the x as I reach full draw position.
Seems I get back with with nice solid setup, but find the pin way off the x.....always low and right.
I think something internal says.....easy, no sudden movements or we'll screw up this nice form.....and I have a hard time just moving up and over abruptly. As I *****foot it over, I run out of time.
Where is your pin when you hit anchor?
If on the x, what did you work on specifically to get it to land there?
If a ways off, do you just yank it over?

I can burn a hole in that x and best I get is a 4oclock yellow if relying on natural alignment....I need to fight it over the rest of the way, and resume my now flawed shot.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I feel your pain. I'm a 7 o'clock bottom of the dot person when reaching anchor, so I'm also interested in hearing answers to this (beyond playing with stab weights--been there, done that...)


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## AngelRa (Nov 15, 2010)

:happy1:


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I've heard at least 5 coaches that most of us would recognize, mention the importance of being on the X as soon as the archer hits anchors at full draw and do it without moving your head. But I recall only one of them saying how to do it. Larry Wise covered this in a seminar and I think it's in his book Core Archery.

Everybody says to be on the X when you hit anchor, but not many details on how to do it. Bow fit and stance play a part in it, but I think it's mostly just habit. I recently made some changes to my form and notice that I tend to be well right of the X when I hit anchor. If I focus on being on the X while drawing, it's not a problem. When I've focused on being on the X for enough arrows, it will become my new habit.

If when you focus on being on the X, you still have problems, you probably should look to something else as the source of the problem. Any injuries, either new or old? Bow fit? etc. Video can be very helpful in working this out. Bad habits can sneak in without us being aware of it. Nearly every time I video a few shots I see something that needs to be corrected. Often, it's things that I thought I was doing right. There is a fee download from Kinovea that allows you to analyze your shot one frame at a time. It was originally designed for golf, but works just fine for archery.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

Been using Coach's Eye.....sounds like same App.
Injury, yes cervical fusion. I don't want to lean on that crutch for this issue because I can physically get the pin there, just takes all my time doing so. Maybe it is related deeper, but Im far from accepting that as an issue.

Ill give Core Archery another read, its been awhile.

More comments are much appreciated.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

What is your "time frame" to get off a shot? I mean, I've shot and cleaned the 1 minute round of the ASA Indoor DAIR event, 4 arrows under 1 minute. I checked last evening and looking at my watch, drawing, anchor aiming and shooting and looking to my watch again the time was between 15 and 17 seconds each time. Distance was not a factor as I shot 4 arrows back to back under a minute from both 25 and 30 yards. Yes, I was trying to stay inside the 1 minute round of the DAIR event (each round is timed, but reduced each round). 5 of 8 shots were in or touching the X ring and 3 were just low of the X ring. I was using a NFAA 5 Spot target. I did the same from 35 yards, but 2 Xs and 2 low, but still in the bull's eye. 35 yards I have to stand in 1" white rock (drive), shoot between my truck, bed tool box, under the evergreens and whatever else one would call distractions, garage, picnic table, bird houses hanging from the evergreen.

Me; If you can't get acquire the target and get the shot off in 15 seconds, something is wrong... I'd get another coach....

Me again; I have my peep a "hair" high. As such, I see the upper right hand corner of my scope housing to start. This makes me raise my head as it should be, up. So X seconds to make me be right. The peep shouldn't be high, but I leave it there as a check point.

One, I draw to the wall, not forcing and more or less relaxed. Relaxed you can move more easily. My pin is normally on the target, a 5 spot. I don't really care if low or high, right or left, but I'm usually high. Fact, you can lower the pin easier than you can raise the pin. Tensed, raising the pin is a real b__ch.

Relaxed, you can move all over the place. I don't care if your start with aiming at the floor or ground. Target acquired, aiming, adding tension into the wall will slow the pin, even make it look almost stopped, if not stopped for X amount of time. Eased into the wall the shot execution takes place (back tension). You can't draw hard into the wall. Hard and you will develop the shakes, especially so with positive draw stops.

Me; Hand placement to the riser grip, the aid of remaining stable during the shot process....It just isn't riser grip inside the thumb joint and not crossing the life line in the palm of the hand. You feel the riser grip from the web of the thumb and index finger and straight down off the palm of the hand. If necessary, you heal the riser, but not forcing. Feeling, knowing your hand has this contact and keeping this contact, the hand remains so and not change from a low to mid grip at full draw and drawing into the wall. For me, it also makes my bow shoulder stay low as it should be.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

learn this one thing and your shot will go off faster and with greater accuracy.

NPA.

Natural Point of Aim. If you're having to move your sight from the center of the target when you hit anchor- your not in your NPA...let down, adjust your stance and draw again.

To set NPA- you need to close your eyes during the draw cycle.
1. set grip/hook
2. acquire target- get aligned
3. close your eyes- 
4. draw and hit anchor
5- open your eyes---are you pointed at the middle of the target? if not, let down and adjust.

there is a big difference in the float settling and moving the float around...if you're moving your float (where your sight is centered), you're not properly aligned with the target. Keep track of how off you are when you open your eyes- it might clue you in to why shots are missing.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I hear a lot of people talk about coming down or coming up slowly and then trying to settle. I think that creates alot of extra time at anchor. Come to anchor wherever it puts you, then move the pin to the X. Dont try to sneek up on it or use the same path to it every time. Just move it to the center and try to hold it. That will save precious time.

As far as being point on every time you anchor....... ya good luck with that.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Fit the bow to you- set the dl, peep height, etc so as you do not move your head when you come to anchor. If you need to adjust and "settle" into your anchor you create inconsistencies; draw to anchor and you shouldn't be moving. When you visually acquire the target during setup and draw straight to anchor your dot/pin will end up very close to the middle. 

Think one of LCA's thing a week with Griv goes over this


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

Fury90flier said:


> learn this one thing and your shot will go off faster and with greater accuracy.
> 
> NPA.
> 
> ...


/\/\ This is one thing I did a couple years back that really helped me.
I also realized that I was getting a sore back after shooting maybe a dozen shots or so and did not put 2 and 2 together. I was off in my body alignment. Thus, after taking about 10 min of video of myself head to toe and shooting, I really improved my accuracy and totally re-vamped my shot process and body alignment to the target. I also broke my shot process down to I think it was 13 mini steps till follow through ended. 

Recently I started going to a chiro and my right leg was about 1/2" shorter due to pelvic mis alignment. This caused my back in mid and upper body to be out of sync and caused the back pain just above pelvis and under ribs. I was twisting while under back tension and was all screwed up.


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

Tag


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## fanio (Feb 1, 2011)

good thread


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I know it's only been a bit more than a week but have you noticed any improvement as of today?


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## Damus (May 3, 2011)

Great post!!


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

GWFH said:


> I am trying to minimize the time it takes me to acquire pin on spot, prior to aiming/execution.
> So I'm breaking down my shot sequence a bit deeper and found that I've never truly studied the time it takes me to anchor, get pin on spot, and begin aim/execute.
> What I found is *I waste a lot of time getting comfortable at anchor*, then I'm realizing pin is not where it needs to be. I gingerly move the pin over, and am usually towards the end of my comfort time leaving little time to start my aim/execution.
> I cannot figure out if this is just a mental block (coach seemed to think so), meaning I'm just being to analytical of establishing anchor.
> ...


Comfortable is not always correct. Old habits die hard. Create a new habit. Target acquisition is a learned habit. Just like bridging, start with a bigger dot. 

Opinions will vary.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

essentially, if you're having trouble getting settled into your anchor and that's burning time acquiring the target, you have something wrong in your relationship between bow fit, peep height and anchor location.
short ata bows loosens the ties between these three essentially basic elements and accentuates the problem.
as I've said several times before, the short bows are simply not designed to fit our anatomy, they are designed to fit our desires.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

ron, I agree with you. Now, if the Poster would give some feed back of some kind.


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

Getting close to feedback.
All the posts here pooled up some motivational ideas.
So far, from small tests Im convinced my issue comes from a bow shoulder thats not down as far as needed, and I keep masking it with a low peep setting. I did find some improvement with the mental aspect.....and was shifting focus away from x during anchor.
Will get a good block of time this weekend and will report as I go.
Thanks again all.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Fury90flier said:


> learn this one thing and your shot will go off faster and with greater accuracy.
> 
> NPA.
> 
> ...


I really like this technique. Thank you for posting it.

I have been hanging out in this forum for a little while, I don't consider myself advanced but more than Intermediate. I've been hesitant to post my questions as they may seem amateur-ish.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

XForce Girl said:


> I really like this technique. Thank you for posting it.
> 
> I have been hanging out in this forum for a little while, I don't consider myself advanced but more than Intermediate. I've been hesitant to post my questions as they may seem amateur-ish.


Girl, you've been around forever. What super duper coach or highly ranked Pro is in here to say your question would be amateurish? Ask away.
Done made up my mind if a question is simple I'm going to answer. If takes brilliance I'll see if I can point the right direction.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> Girl, you've been around forever. What super duper coach or highly ranked Pro is in here to say your question would be amateurish? Ask away.
> Done made up my mind if a question is simple I'm going to answer. If takes brilliance I'll see if I can point the right direction.


Hijack alert!!

Thanks Sonny, 

I've mostly been a local ASA Shooter, 3D mostly. Only been to a couple Pro Ams.

Recently I've been coaching a great bunch of kids, (I'm only a Level 2)
Anyway we are heading out to Hamilton Ohio in July for the NTC and JOAD, I'm going to compete as well and I feel really lost since I've never done this type of shoot.

I have been practicing but found out how out of shape I am. Shooting 72 arrows a day in the heat is something I am really concerned about. 
That's why I'm hanging out here to learn what I need to compete at a higher level. I'm not even sure what questions to ask, I just don't want to make a fool of myself at this shoot.
Been working on building up strength to make it through the shoot.


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## himesgt (Dec 20, 2013)

subconsciously said:


> Comfortable is not always correct. Old habits die hard. Create a new habit. Target acquisition is a learned habit. Just like bridging, start with a bigger dot.
> 
> Opinions will vary.


The golf swing set up may in some ways be analogous to the archery shot routine. Proper form over comfort. As the Director of Golf at Kapalua once told me concerning the proper feel of the golf swing, "Like most things in life, if it feels good you are probably doing something wrong." I have paid more attention to form over feel ever since.


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## Reverend (Nov 2, 2004)

Reviving this old thread as I forgot what GRIV advised about this. If I recall he said, acquire target first, then scope, then peep. 
Or was that target first, then peep, and then scope? Help me out on this one?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Reverend said:


> Reviving this old thread as I forgot what GRIV advised about this. If I recall he said, acquire target first, then scope, then peep.
> Or was that target first, then peep, and then scope? Help me out on this one?


Look at the X while drawing
dot lands in the X at full draw (draw to just outside the face)
Dot stays on the X as you bring your bow hand to anchor laterally 
Peep lands in between your eye and the X.


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