# Proposed Rule change regarding Senior age limit



## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i dont have a dog in this fight because i'm a free agent. i will play devil's advocate. personally, i dont give a yit either way it goes. some directors and state reps will vote ONLY the way they want regardless of what their constituents ask for.

let's say the change passes. how many that howl about the inequality of the difference will IN REALITY participate in NFAA events? we have heard that same argument for the 3day nationals. where's that big influx of people that wanted it changed? national attendance is in the 400 shooter range, give or take a couple dozen. 3D events, on the other hand, draw close to a thousand for 3day events. there were plenty that screamed for it..........<crickets> where are they? you got the 3day change you wanted, so where are you?

another hypothetical question if it changes......many say they only participate in the vegas shoot because of a chance for winning money. when the senior age drops to 50, those 50 to 54 year old shooters move to a different class. that aging demographic takes their money to the new division, increasing that pot, and reducing the 18-49 amateurs. then, you'll get the screamers about how the NFAA reduced payouts to the non-senior amateurs.....you know, the ones that wont come out and play no matter what.

we keep using the 'if we change it, they will come' reasoning. so far, it hasnt worked. i know we need to make changes but are we making the right changes? i love the game, but hate the gamez.

officers need to be held accountable to the requirements and duties of the positions they hold, and so far, the GOBC has beaten down any of the fresh faces that have tried. until the GOBC rotates out of position due to natural attrition, i dont think anything positive will be achieved.


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## RickT (Mar 14, 2009)

rock monkey, the seniors in Vegas that choose to shoot as seniors have to shoot Championship Senior with the Pro Seniors. There is not an amatuer senior class at Vegas. This also means paying an extra $100 on your entry fee.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

RickT said:


> rock monkey, the seniors in Vegas that choose to shoot as seniors have to shoot Championship Senior with the Pro Seniors. There is not an amatuer senior class at Vegas. This also means paying an extra $100 on your entry fee.


that still means less going into the pot for the non-senior shooters.

for those that ONLY shoot because of a payout opportunity, the final number that means anything to them is less to go around and we all know how fast bad news and rumors go around.


like i said, i dont care either way. i've let go of the competetive thing and just shoot for the fun and personal improvement. change is needed but let's make the right changes in the right areas.


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## Rolo (Dec 16, 2002)

I don't view the proposal as a: "change it and they will come" idea. Not even mentioned by the person submitting the agenda item.

It also means more in the pot for the senior shooters. There will also (potentially) be less people in other divisions to worry about sharing the money. Cuts both ways.

In either event, it will still be up to the individual to pick what Division they shoot (at least at Vegas) and pay their entry fee accordingly.

Personally, I could care less about pay-outs, if I win some cash, great, but that ain't why I'm doing it. I'm also for the change.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i wish the best for the agenda items that are written for the good of the NFAA because change really is needed. those that write them and champion them are few and far between.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

I voted yes. I'm more competitive in the NAA mater 50+ class than I am in the NFAA Adult class. Won't amtter in a couple years as I'll hit the 55 mark. But it would be nice not to have to think about what age group I fall into when changing venues.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I didn't vote, not now being a NFAA member.

It's been awhile for me since I was a NFAA member and I thought hard to join again this year and maybe will next year. But I was a NFAA member when I won Illinois State Champion in Senior Adult Free Style. I had just turned 55 that year. I shot 62 pounds of draw weight for everything, Indoor, Outdoor, Field and of course 3D. Maybe age hadn't caught up with me then, but for sure I shot Adult class at every non-sanctioned club event and held my own very easily. 63 years old now my eyes aren't what they were and I have aches and pains, but I still compete in the "kids" classes at non-sanctioned 3D events and still hold my own. By and large, if anything is really against me it's me not wanting to drop draw weight as much as I have (still think I'm one of the kids). And really I've dropped draw weight because of my new bows able to hit the current ASA speed of 280 fps at a lesser draw weight.
.
So for me at my then 55 years of age I'd take on the best of the best and just have (maybe) pity for the younger ones I stomped on


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Sonny, with the age changes it does not block anyone at any age from competing with the younger adult division if they choose. But it does allow those older adults (50-55) that feel they are not competitive with the 20 year olds to compete with there peers. I am 49 and still win my fair share of our state shoots but when I go to national events, well lets just say I still have fun. I do have my days that I can hang with just about anyone but they are getting fewer and farther between.  

My age is not the driving force behind this, I have felt that the ages should be different for a long time. I have talked to and listened to a lot of members and they are the ones that have voiced this. And as you can see in this, the third poll that I have conducted, there is overwhelming support for it.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

I voted NO on this one, because it is really a two-part question and I don't agree with both the parts.

I think it is a good idea to drop the Seniors start age to 50, but still keep the Master Senior start age at 65. That makes a 15-year age group for Seniors, and will bring up the eligible numbers.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Linda part of this is to align the organizations.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> Linda part of this is to align the organizations.



In addition, those "not there yet", as in those in their 30's and 40's are almost completely clueless as to how rapidly things start to decline with your archery prowess as you get into the 50's and 60's. I used to think those "seniors" and "Master Seniors" were full of beans...until I hit age 52 and things really went to heck in a hay basket. The vision, health issues, flexibility, strength...all take a huge toll that the younger set will only understand when they get there!

This loss of prowess, excepting only a very small handful of to echelon shooters, accelerates...and that has a lot to do with the proposal...

However, as USN says, "it is more to align the organizations" so that it is "standard" instead of as always, the NFAA out there getting blasted because "we" refuse to change and expect everyone else to. That hasn't worked since the mid-1970's...or likely before that even...but it sure came to light in the 1980's when the 3-D's started to become popular! Can't have one organization out in left field without getting hurt severely by the other orgs.

It is silly to have to question what the age limits are, because 3 or more have it at 50 and 60...and then "Lonesome George" out there stands firmly at 50 and 65....and wonders why people are howling?

These polls have clearly shown the support for this change...but of course, the old farts in the NFAA won't want to budge and will fight it tooth and nail...some may not want to "lose a medal" to some "younger buck" in seniors that just turned 50 and the old fart is 54...
Again, I'm 65 and have been in favor of the change downwards for a long, long, long time...Should have been done long ago...but those "old schoolers" are stead-fast against it. Only way to get it done is for the membership to let them know what the MEMBERSHIP wants...and hold the Director(s) accountable for the way they vote at the meeting.
Tom D.


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## Bear Foot old (Sep 22, 2005)

I voted NO What about those that is turning 55? they lost 5 years.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Bear Foot old said:


> I voted NO What about those that is turning 55? they lost 5 years.


Thanks for your vote, it does matter. But with that kind of thinking nothing would ever change. No one has or will lose anything. We are just trying to level the playing field and also align the major organizations so that all have the same peer groups.

There are plenty of folks out there that will still shoot the adult class even though they will now be elidgable to shoot senior because they feel that they can still compete with the younger archers. But more importantly it will allow a big group to be allowed to shoot and compete with those that are of the same abilities physically. No one wants to admit that they are getting older but some point the physical being overtakes the young thinking.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Bear Foot old said:


> I voted NO What about those that is turning 55? they lost 5 years.


Simple---they get those 5 years back when they turn 60. Please don't ask what about those that is turning 65. :wink:

The what's in it for me votes are understandable, but think the only question should be what's best for the NFAA.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

asa senior is 50+. super senior is 60+. master senior is 70+. ibo, i think, is the same with only the class names being different. so, why is nfaa unwilling to join that parade?


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

As a 55+ shooter who does attend a good amount of NFAA events, I feel it would be very beneficial to NFAA to align the age groups with the other archery organizations, so have voted YES. However, I don't really have a horse in the race because I started shooting when in my early 50s, so I've always had a VERY steep hill to climb--learning to shoot as a novice at 50 something against kids in their physical prime is a very humbling experience and one that on many occasions tested my reserve and had me wondering why in the world was I doing this to myself??? 

But I love this sport and I very much enjoy competing at all levels and because of my personal circumstance, with any age group. I am confident that one day, no matter my age, I will have enough string time under my belt, the stars will have perfectly aligned, and I will not have forgotten to take my arthritis meds prior to a competition.... I will hear my name called to the winner's podium at a major shoot. :wink:


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

As a person that just turned 65, I have a lot to lose. However, I believe that the two organizations should adopt similar rules. Therefore should NFAA start shooting 3 arrows per target instead of 4. Should first up shoot top targets instead of bottom. Should the first day be unknown distance and the second known and should 60 meters be the max distance. We can't make some changes and not others. That would only benefit a few people turning 50 and still not make the two organizations similar in rules. 
I have been a NFAA member for almost 35 years and know the stuggle between NFAA and the other groups. NFAA is losing ground rapidly and will not exist soon except for a few like us that remembers the good old days. Changing the age groups will not bring back membership but will cause some to leave. 
Would only changing the age groups make our organization stronger. So far, every change made since the 70s have seemed to run members off. When I go to NFAA tournaments I see that the 55 and older group is rapidly becoming the largest group. Do you really want to anger this group because some 50 to 54 year olds can't wait to reach 55 like the rest of us had to. Instead come up with a plan that would make the NFAA more attractive and similat to the other organizations and if changing the age groups is one of the changes needed then you have my blessing.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Thanks to everyone that replies. Your opinions do matter.

Aligning rules is not the theme here. Obviously in the cases of ASA and IBO. For field it is good to have the uniqueness of each individual organization it keeps things fun. This proposal is simply to level the playing field in a sport that can be physically challenging and make everyone a little more competitive with their peers. A side benefit to this is to align all the organizations in this country so that no matter what venue you shoot you are with your peers and those in the other organizations that are seniors can stay a senior and be a bit more competitive within the NFAA.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

^^^ This and all of the proposals, ok if you read them maybe not all, are important. Get with your state director and read through them and submit your opinion.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Does it really matter? :noidea:It looks good on paper and there are those that think if they get those five years they will some how instantly be in line to win a bunch of silver bowls, sectional, or state championships if they are 8-10 years younger than the others in their division.:set1_fishing: The grass always looks greener on the other side until you have to mow it. There's no free lunch anywhere whether you're 30,50,55,60 or older than dirt like I am.....Cream always rises to the top. I've spoken my piece and counted to three.......have a great day.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

What Gus said (coming from a youngster at 61).


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> Does it really matter? :noidea:It looks good on paper and there are those that think if they get those five years they will some how instantly be in line to win a bunch of silver bowls, sectional, or state championships if they are 8-10 years younger than the others in their division.:set1_fishing: The grass always looks greener on the other side until you have to mow it. There's no free lunch anywhere whether you're 30,50,55,60 or older than dirt like I am.....Cream always rises to the top. I've spoken my piece and counted to three.......have a great day.


Hell with thinking like that then lets get rid of all divisions, classes and age limits. Why should women only compete against women, get rid of the gender seperation too. Why should kids get a break? They get to shoot closer so they should compete with everyone. :wink:

Everyones opinion counts and is important. Thanks for the input I really do appreciate it. :shade:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I don't think sixty year olds should shoot with 30 year olds, but by the same token I don't think that this magical five year thing is going to change the target archery world. And if you can shoot scores higher than some of the cubs who shoot in the high fifties outdoors and sixty X indoors, then my hat is off to you.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Unclegus said:


> I don't think sixty year olds should shoot with 30 year olds, but by the same token I don't think that this magical five year thing is going to change the target archery world. And if you can shoot scores higher than some of the cubs who shoot in the high fifties outdoors and sixty X indoors, then my hat is off to you.


 I'm getting too wordy and not really expressing a point. maybe I should run for office??? it just doesn't really matter where you set the age brackets to try and mitigate the reality of getting older, the competition is still going to be damn tough.... That's all.... I can tell you from personal experience that is sure goes down hill after mid forties and then when you're closer to sixties, it's like an avalanche.


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## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

Its no easier getting your azz handed to you by a 18 or 60 year old, probally would be easier to make an excuse if they are younger !!


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

Don't woman compete against men in vegas?


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

nock tune said:


> Don't woman compete against men in vegas?


 in the flights they do, but not in the championship divisions. I think they should double the shooting fees so everyone gets a silver bowl when they check in at the shoots regardless of age, gender or shooting style. It might save a lot of time. .. I'm in favor of 50,60 and 70, but does it really matter??? I just really enjoy stirring the pot.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

nock tune said:


> Don't woman compete against men in vegas?


Vegas is NOT NFAA


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> I'm getting too wordy and not really expressing a point. maybe I should run for office??? it just doesn't really matter where you set the age brackets to try and mitigate the reality of getting older, the competition is still going to be damn tough.... That's all.... I can tell you from personal experience that is sure goes down hill after mid forties and then when you're closer to sixties, it's like an avalanche.


Ok then. Set aside the physical inequalities. Lets just align the age divisions to ALL of the other organizations. :shade:


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

why don't we just give everybody a trophy and get it over with? do we really need 37 senior divisions ? how about one at 50 years


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

2413gary said:


> why don't we just give everybody a trophy and get it over with? do we really need 37 senior divisions ? how about one at 50 years


 I'll give you an adress to send me mine. Apparently you're totally clueless about what it's like to get older than dirt. Just wait. Those "golden years" suck. I wish I could shoot like I did when I was 50.


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## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

Heck yea we need 37 age groupes and I wanna shoot in one all by myself every year from now on till I cant anymore!!!!~


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> I'm getting too wordy and not really expressing a point. maybe I should run for office??? it just doesn't really matter where you set the age brackets to try and mitigate the reality of getting older, the competition is still going to be damn tough.... That's all.... I can tell you from personal experience that is sure goes down hill after mid forties and then when you're closer to sixties, it's like an avalanche.


 Gus you'r just a youngster at 60


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## soonerboy (Sep 6, 2004)

If I was the only one in a class. Some days it still would take me the 3rd or 4th arrow to win.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

What's your address I'm 62 and shooting better than ever


Unclegus said:


> I'll give you an adress to send me mine. Apparently you're totally clueless about what it's like to get older than dirt. Just wait. Those "golden years" suck. I wish I could shoot like I did when I was 50.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

2413gary said:


> What's your address I'm 62 and shooting better than ever


I'm glad for you. You should show up at one of the nationals and show your stuff.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Unclegus said:


> I'm glad for you. You should show up at one of the nationals and show your stuff.


Gus, Gary has won five or six Nfaa outdoor titles in Bowhunter and Trad class. He can walk the walk. Check out the 2012 Nfaa outdoor nationals results in senior bowhunter, then check out the results for adult bowhunter.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Pardon My ignorance. Unless someone shoots Freestyle, I usually don't know who they are.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

brtesite said:


> Gus you'r just a youngster at 60


 Mikie, it's not the age, it's the miles. I wish I was ten feet tall and bulletproof like guys like Larry Hix and Jay Bradway, but I'm not. I really admire these guys.....


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> Mikie, it's not the age, it's the miles. I wish I was ten feet tall and bulletproof like guys like Larry Hix and Jay Bradway, but I'm not. I really admire these guys.....


 yes they are something.
I guess if we knew that we were going to live this long we would have taken better care of ourselves.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Age is a condition that we have no control over and in my mind I'm still in my 20's, I just can't see them clearly anymore. :shade: I know that I'm a youngster compaired to you old farts but it doesn't change the fact that we need to do this for the sport. Keep people interested. It's not about magic and winning all the time just because you get to shoot senior, it's being in a peer group that is more equally competitive. It wasn't that long ago that I could hold my own against guys like Poole, Binger, and the local hotshots but not so much the past couple years. Hell even Ruddock gave in and moved up. When I retired out of the Navy 6 years ago I was the oldest guy on the crew and everyone called me grandpa, I still don't feel or act like a grandpa.

Well that was a ramble but what I'm trying to say is......this isn't a move to make everyone a winner, infact I think that is why those that are in the senior division already are apposed because they feel this will let the young guns come in and take it away. But that isn't true for 2 reasons. It has the senior division being 50-59 and if you are feeling real old then you get to move up again at 60 to MS. I really do think that this is good for the sport and not just to give everyone a bowl. The senior and MS divisions will double. 

In another proposal I have submitted I have asked equipment to be reinstated to MS.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

brtesite said:


> yes they are something.
> I guess if we knew that we were going to live this long we would have taken better care of ourselves.


 1st heart attack at 46 didn't help anything. And it is hell being a young person trapped in an old body.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

It would not hurt to improve the participation in NFAA archery. In the "senior" bow hunter classes participation is abysmal. 
At outdoor nationals there (4) SFBHFS and only (13) SMBHF. In BHFS there were ONLY 20 participants. BowHunter classes should be some of the largest classes. The outdoor nationals this past year was in an excellent location for field archery and the numbers were little more than a big local 3D tournament, if that!!!!

The NFAA continues to shrivel. It has ONE and only ONE tournament that has a good turn out and compares favorably with _many _ASA and IBO tournaments as far as participation is concerned and that is Indoor Nationals. The Vegas tournament is NOT an NFAA tournament! 

The NFAA will most likely continue to keep their heads buried in the sand while whining "we were first" but that won't grow the game. If one of the major archery orgs decides to have indoor spot tournaments from Jan 1 to March 15 or so the NFAA will only exist on paper and as an Easton subsidiary.

If the NFAA leadership cares if the organization still exist 10 years from now they work on improving the game such that it is MORE attractive to more people. At this point it can not hurt anything to actually make some changes with an eye on attracting more archers (MEMBERS). Just look at the age of the NFAA leadership and you can see the NFAA is literally dieing off.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Yep, the number of senior and master senior FSers at Mechanicsburg tells the story. As for promoting field archery, I personally don't think that's part of Bruce's master plan for archery. The real focus right now, IMO, is about combining the NFAA and USAA with him running the show and it will try to be sold to the directors at the Vegas meeting. But then again, what does a senile old fart know?????


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> Yep, the number of senior and master senior FSers at Mechanicsburg tells the story. As for promoting field archery, I personally don't think that's part of Bruce's master plan for archery. The real focus right now, IMO, is about combining the NFAA and USAA with him running the show and it will try to be sold to the directors at the Vegas meeting. But then again, what does a senile old fart know?????


It has been blatantly obvious for some years that the NFAA existing as an independent archery organization has passed. For all intents and purposes The Cullinator owns the NFAA. All of the NFAA's physical assets are in Yankton, SD (his home town), financed by local banks and are tied into Easton. The NFAA really only exists on paper at this point. The Cullinator does not ask the directors for any thing! All he has to do is tell the old buzzards that they'll still be called "Directors" and that they will continue to do nothing of consequence. As I said previously, the NFAA itself really has nothing left of any real value. If the NFAA folded tomorrow the Vegas tournament would go on as it is a WAF tournament and I expect the facilities would be absorbed by Easton.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> 1st heart attack at 46 didn't help anything. And it is hell being a young person trapped in an old body.


Gus
No mater what ever happens, remember that old age & treachery will always out due youth & skill :shade:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> It has been blatantly obvious for some years that the NFAA existing as an independent archery organization has passed. For all intents and purposes The Cullinator owns the NFAA. All of the NFAA's physical assets are in Yankton, SD (his home town), financed by local banks and are tied into Easton. The NFAA really only exists on paper at this point. The Cullinator does not ask the directors for any thing! All he has to do is tell the old buzzards that they'll still be called "Directors" and that they will continue to do nothing of consequence. As I said previously, the NFAA itself really has nothing left of any real value. If the NFAA folded tomorrow the Vegas tournament would go on as it is a WAF tournament and I expect the facilities would be absorbed by Easton.


It's more than obvious what's going on. Has been for years. Rocket science it ain't. We're all going to be one happy family based in Yankton. I'm just waiting to see who he talks into building an airport in Yankton.


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## tabarch (Sep 20, 2006)

In the end it really doesn't matter about the actual age of where the senior class begins at, if you are 51, 55 or 75 you don't have to register as a senior or master senior you can always register as an adult if you want to, it is up to you. If you feel like you want to compete against the 20 year olds you can, I think that aligning all of the org's to the same age is a good thing but what do I know I THOUGHT ROMMNEY WAS GOING TO WIN.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

tabarch said:


> In the end it really doesn't matter about the actual age of where the senior class begins at, if you are 51, 55 or 75 you don't have to register as a senior or master senior you can always register as an adult if you want to, it is up to you. If you feel like you want to compete against the 20 year olds you can, I think that aligning all of the org's to the same age is a good thing but what do I know I THOUGHT ROMMNEY WAS GOING TO WIN.


Me too. I'm just curious who would want to have their name associated with a party that spent the majority of their convention on making sure we got rid of God in everything, pretty much abortion on demand, and gay marriage. Go figure. We'll get through it.


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

Well, we need to get this right. People in their fifties are not old farts. They are semi-nearly old farts. Those in their sixties are semi-old farts. The seventies, the seventies was a really good decade. I can remember, um, I used to remember. Oh, hell, I can't remember a thing cause I'm an old fart.:59:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

rpdjr45 said:


> Well, we need to get this right. People in their fifties are not old farts. They are semi-nearly old farts. Those in their sixties are semi-old farts. The seventies, the seventies was a really good decade. I can remember, um, I used to remember. Oh, hell, I can't remember a thing cause I'm an old fart.:59:


 It's good to see you have a firm grasp on the concept.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> Me too. I'm just curious who would want to have their name associated with a party that spent the majority of their convention on making sure we got rid of God in everything, pretty much abortion on demand, and gay marriage. Go figure. We'll get through it.


Gus, it shows that there are more takers than suppliers
The earth stood still on the 6th for a few hours


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

brtesite said:


> Gus, it shows that there are more takers than suppliers
> The earth stood still on the 6th for a few hours


 I think I'm just going to move to Colorado and grow dope.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> I think I'm just going to move to Colorado and grow dope.


I don't have to move. :shade:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

USNarcher said:


> I don't have to move. :shade:


 I think they will change the nickname of Washington to the Stoned State in a few years.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Unclegus said:


> I think I'm just going to move to Colorado and grow dope.



Saw this floating around facebook. Thought it might incentivize your move..


View attachment 1515919


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> It would not hurt to improve the participation in NFAA archery. In the "senior" bow hunter classes participation is abysmal.
> *At outdoor nationals there (4) SFBHFS and only (13) SMBHF. In BHFS there were ONLY 20 participants. BowHunter classes should be some of the largest classes. The outdoor nationals this past year was in an excellent location for field archery and the numbers were little more than a big local 3D tournament, if that!!!!*
> 
> The NFAA continues to shrivel. It has ONE and only ONE tournament that has a good turn out and compares favorably with _many _ASA and IBO tournaments as far as participation is concerned and that is Indoor Nationals. The Vegas tournament is NOT an NFAA tournament!
> ...


The site of the Indoor nationals is within a 12 hour car ride from about 90% of the U.S. population. The outdoor sites are much farther, requiring plane travel for so many. They really need to make some place in Kentucky the permanent outdoor site.

As to the topic of discussion, I would like to see the NFAA align the age groups with the other organizations, just to stop the confusion. I really don't think it would have much impact on participation.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

JawsDad said:


> Saw this floating around facebook. Thought it might incentivize your move..
> 
> 
> View attachment 1515919


Jaws, I read your Mark Twain quote 5 minutes ago and I am still laughing.:thumbs_up


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

JawsDad said:


> Saw this floating around facebook. Thought it might incentivize your move..
> 
> 
> View attachment 1515919


Jaws, I read your Mark Twain quote 5 minutes ago and I am still laughing.:thumbs_up


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

ccwilder3 said:


> The site of the Indoor nationals is within a 12 hour car ride from about 90% of the U.S. population. The outdoor sites are much farther, requiring plane travel for so many. They really need to make some place in Kentucky the permanent outdoor site.


This is getting off the topic of Senior and Master age groups, but I'm strongly AGAINST a single site for National Field.
No matter how nice it is, it would be boring to go back to the same place year after year. I live in Washington and wouldn't even be happy if it was in Darrington every year!

Many people wouldn't go to a National Field for the first time (or would never try it) if the event wasn't held nearby.
My son and grandkids have each shot Nationals once or twice, but only when it was held in this state.

I LIKE traveling to different places, meeting different people, seeing the sights and experiencing the different ranges.

Indoor is different, as one indoor range is pretty much like another, and once you are in the door it could be just about anywhere.


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

wa-prez said:


> This is getting off the topic of Senior and Master age groups, but I'm strongly AGAINST a single site for National Field.
> No matter how nice it is, it would be boring to go back to the same place year after year. I live in Washington and wouldn't even be happy if it was in Darrington every year!
> 
> Many people wouldn't go to a National Field for the first time (or would never try it) if the event wasn't held nearby.
> ...


That's why I put the agenda up that there should be a rotation of the out door so that every one could maybe get to shoot a national
every couple of years. The NFAA is a service org. & should service it's members.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

brtesite said:


> That's why I put the agenda up that there should be a rotation of the out door so that every one could maybe get to shoot a national
> every couple of years. The NFAA is a service org. & should service it's members.


I support your agenda there Mike.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> I support your agenda there Mike.


Same here...As a 40+ year member of the NFAA, I would NOT support any item to make ONE site for hosting the NFAA Outdoor Nationals.

It is sad that we don't have more bidders for the Nationals. BUT...even sadder is having lost Aurora and Watkins Glen! Oh, but to have those two back into the bidding matrix!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

field14 said:


> Same here...As a 40+ year member of the NFAA, I would NOT support any item to make ONE site for hosting the NFAA Outdoor Nationals.
> 
> It is sad that we don't have more bidders for the Nationals. BUT...even sadder is having lost Aurora and Watkins Glen! Oh, but to have those two back into the bidding matrix!
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


You don't have more bidders because , no facility, no workers, & maybe because the lack of interest in Field archery
the only way I would support one place is when there are no other bidders.


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Then lets not hear a lot of complaints about attendance at the outdoor nationals. I doubt I will ever attend. I just don't have that kind of money to throw around.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

brtesite said:


> You don't have more bidders because , no facility, no workers, & maybe because the lack of interest in Field archery
> the only way I would support one place is when there are no other bidders.



You have that right Mike! Especially the no workers part. The lack of interest is the fault of the members and also goes to rest with the lack of advertising and "push" of the NFAA concerning its outdoor game. I know that the members are the NFAA...but, there is very little promotion or pushing of field archery by the association either.
Same here, but I would oppose establishing a PERMANENT site for the NFAA Outdoor Nationals.

Back to the issue of the age. That relates to the undoubtable fact that the NFAA is becoming heavy on the Seniors and Master Seniors end and little to no growth at the Cub, Youth, Young Adult and even Adult end of the age spectrum. NASP and other school programs, while successful, aren't really bringing in that many new shooters into the NFAA or other associations for competitive purposes. They get thru the 4-H or the NASP programs and it is "on to something else."


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

field14 said:


> You have that right Mike! Especially the no workers part. The lack of interest is the fault of the members and also goes to rest with the lack of advertising and "push" of the NFAA concerning its outdoor game. I know that the members are the NFAA...*but, there is very little promotion or pushing of field archery by the association either*.
> Same here, but I would oppose establishing a PERMANENT site for the NFAA Outdoor Nationals.
> 
> Back to the issue of the age. That relates to the undoubtable fact that the NFAA is becoming heavy on the Seniors and Master Seniors end and little to no growth at the Cub, Youth, Young Adult and even Adult end of the age spectrum. NASP and other school programs, while successful, aren't really bringing in that many new shooters into the NFAA or other associations for competitive purposes. They get thru the 4-H or the NASP programs and it is "on to something else."


*Duties of Officers and the Executive Secretary*

2. Vice-President:
2.1 The Vice-President shall serve as a member of the NFAA Council.
2.2 Perform the duties of the President if the President is unable to act.
2.3 Coordinate public relations of the NFAA.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

field14 said:


> NASP and other school programs, while successful, aren't really bringing in that many new shooters into the NFAA or other associations for competitive purposes. They get thru the 4-H or the NASP programs and it is "on to something else."


Washington has been specifically inviting the NASP division archers to our indoor events the past couple years. We recognize the NASP age groups (Elementary, Middle School, and High School) in the NASP equipment style (Original Genesis bows, full-length Genesis arrows, no sights, release aids or stabilizers). We also have the NASP archers shoot only a single round, so the coach doesn't have to manage an overnight stay.

Attendance has been huge, with results as follows:
EVENT	DATE	PARTICIPANTS
Indoor FITA	November 2011	35
Indoor Multi-Color	January 2012	42
Indoor Blueface	March 2012	47
These numbers are out of about 120-170 total, so we are seeing about 25% of our total participation in the indoor events coming from our NASP division.

We have our Indoor FITA for 2012 this weekend, and I know of several planning to attend.

Outdoor is a different matter, we are still wrestling with how to accommodate these archers at the longer distances. But we do see SOME cub and youth archers bringing out their Genesis bows and giving Field, 3D and Safari a try.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

brtesite said:


> You don't have more bidders because , no facility, no workers, & *maybe because the lack of interest in Field archery*
> the only way I would support one place is when there are no other bidders.


Remove the "maybe". If there were more participants at Nationals then there would already be more archers and archery clubs involved in field archery......... More clubs and archers means more money flowing. More money flowing means more manufacturer interest........... The NFAA did not create field archery. ARCHERS created the poorly run and structured NFAA!! The NFAA's "field archery" as it originated is done and has been for some time. It is now "CFAA".


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