# broad head tuning ?'s



## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

In refence to field points and broadheads grouping 
at the same point of impact
I would like some opinions.
If your bow is tuned and your shooting 100 grain field point
(example)
Then screw on a quality(brand X)
100 grain broadhead
(fixed) and get the same point of impact.
Now screw on (brand Z) 100 grain BH and it will group 
with brand X??
-Both broadheads are let's say
3 blade --1 1/8" cut diameter.

Now I'd like to break this question up in a little.

Lets take into factor arrow speed--since we have 2
diffent types of shooters here

1. Old school = slow arrow speed / heavy arrow
maxinium KE , lets say 220 to 260 fps

AND

2. Speed freaks (no offense)= 270 fps and up

Do you really think that any 2 quality broadhead will
all fly the same out of each setup?

Or do you think I guy will need to find 
the right broadhead for his set up??
(broadhead planing issues)


I seen many post on this subject, but I never see
anyone ask" what their setup is". 
Speed/arrow weight/fletching size



Your opinons please


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## andy7yo (Nov 22, 2005)

In my limited experience, not many fixed heads will have the same POI as the fp's, unless the bow is tuned for them.

Speed just magnifies the potential for planing.


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## dparsons (Jan 22, 2005)

*broadhead tuning*

Try this if you are a release shooter with a dloop first check your FOC make sure that your FOC is at lest 10 percent then take a bare shaft ,and do a paper test untill you get bullet holes at about ten feet, then take three fletched shaft ,and too bare shaft at twenty yards, and shoot them untill they hit the same spot ,then back off two thirty yards ,and shoot the fletched shaft ,and bare shaft untill they groop togather. At this point you should be able two shoot the fieldpoint and broadhead with the fletched shaft and hit the same spot. I have done this with all my set ups for the past twenty plus years,know matter what broadhead I have used as long as the broadhead is the same weight as fieldpoint.


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

rumm64 said:


> Do you really think that any 2 quality broadhead will
> all fly the same out of each setup? - *NO* - ybslo
> 
> Or do you think a guy will need to find
> ...


Captin Rumm
I cant believe your not getting many replies - Great Post!!!
( look above - I gave my opinions)
Come on Guys! - Lets here your opinoins !!! 

I think the key factor here is the setup as you had noted.
Speed/arrow weight/fletching size & (my opinoin as well - The FOC)
In my past experience, not all broadheads will fly the same out of my setup & have the same Point of impact as my Field Tips. Why? I dont know for sure.
I'd like to know!!!!!! - Can they be made to?

Andy7yo touched base on a good point as well - *Speed just magnifies the potential for planing.* - I couldnt agree more, this is not the deciding factor but one of the few, as you have noted above.

I,m not trying to highjack your post her, but I think it's an excellent question, there are a lot of unanswered questions here. I would like to see other opinoins as well. - I'm thinking to much!! Whew!! More - :beer: Good Luck Rumm!!!!!


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## dparsons (Jan 22, 2005)

*broadhead tuning*

There are many things like shooting form torking the bow total arrow weight, but I have not found that speed is not one of them ,if the FOC is ok . I am shooting a mathews switchback 70 pounds 29 inch carbon express cx 300 with 100 grain head, my setup is shooting 285 FPS I have muzzy 4blade 3blade thunderheads and rocky mountain broadheads with the same point of inpact. I have shot brownings pse darton bear and jennings bows. All I am saying is its works for me ther are many more bows, and many more broadheads that I have not used ,and the set up may not work for everyone but it has for me.


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## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

dparsons said:


> . I am shooting a mathews switchback 70 pounds 29 inch carbon express cx 300 with 100 grain head, my setup is shooting 285 FPS I have muzzy 4blade 3blade thunderheads and rocky mountain broadheads with the same point of inpact.



Your saying that these three broadheads all have the same point of impact
with one another out of you switchback??

If yes this is the type of information I'm looking for--Thank you

If not please correct ME

NOTE* A 4 blade BH having the same point of impact as a 3 blade BH
(Good info right there)


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## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

YBSLO said:


> Andy7yo touched base on a good point as well - *Speed just magnifies the potential for planing.* - I couldnt agree more, this is not the deciding factor but one of the few, as you have noted above.
> 
> I,m not trying to highjack your post here.



I to thinks Andy7yo makes a good point here and I to agree.

I'm just thinking that when someone ask these ?'s on BH-FT
hitting same point of impact there is a bigger issue than retuning .

There are so many other factors to consider.

My BH's and FT have the same point of impact--but I had to find the right
BH because of planing issues.
Does this mean I'm not perfectly tuned??

YBSLO---Highjack away--if it get more info on the post--LOL


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## dparsons (Jan 22, 2005)

*re:broadhead*

All I am saying take the time and paper tune with bare shaft at ten feet make sure you are getting bullet holes if you can not get bullet holes then its a wast of time, then make sure your fletch arrow, and the unfletch arrow hits the same at twenty and thirty yards, the weight of the fletchen does'nt seem two matter I have taken tape and put it where the fletchen is and got the same weight ,but doesnt seem two make any difference if you can get this far with your setup they will hit the same spot at lest for me it does. This is the best way of tuning I have found for broadheads I can shoot with out sighting in the broadheads and fieldpoints. I can practice with fieldpoints and hunt with broadheads and not change my sights. I can not say that this will work for all because there are so many factors that can cause problems but give it a try if it works for you it is worth the effort?


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

dparsons said:


> there are so many factors that can cause problems, but give it a try if it works for you it is worth the effort ?


Good Info - It's worth trying to me. 
So is this a matter of Tweaking the Rest & knock point to get the same point of impact with a bare shaft & a fletched shaft. Then will most any broadhead fly like field tips? It's worth trying to me, especially if it eliminates most planning issues. I would think with good BH venting, that planning would not be an issue. *I still cant believe not many replies on this subject* - I wonder how many guys take the easy way out & just re-sight when shooting Broadheads? ( I cant stand doing that) I Know how Captin Rumm Feels, I want to shoot Broadheads & field tips with the same point of impact at any given time. 

*I still cant believe not many replies on this subject*


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

rumm64 said:


> My BH's and FT have the same point of impact--but I had to find the right
> BH because of planing issues.
> Does this mean I'm not perfectly tuned??


*YEAH *I'm wondering the same thing!!!!!!


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

Well for me I cant make a bare shaft fly right out of anything. I papertune and group tune with field points then sight in for broadheads. Most of the time I shoot mechanicals but switch back and forth. Right now my Montechs group 2" right of my field points at 30 yards. My mechanicals NAP Spitfire Pros and Rocket Hammerheads hit exactly with the field tips. My Crimson Talons hit 3" to the right at 30 yards. Muzzy 3-blade hits 3" left. Other brands I have tried usually hit 2-4 inches left or right up or down. Steelforce seems to hit exactly like field tips so far but I dont like 2 blade heads. I can get good groups with each but cant get them to hit the same no matter what I do unless its mechanical. I do think speed has some to do with it.


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## YBSLO (Nov 3, 2005)

Lil Wag said:


> Well for me I cant make a bare shaft fly right out of anything. I papertune and group tune with field points then sight in for broadheads. Most of the time I shoot mechanicals but switch back and forth. Right now my Montechs group 2" right of my field points at 30 yards. My mechanicals NAP Spitfire Pros and Rocket Hammerheads hit exactly with the field tips. My Crimson Talons hit 3" to the right at 30 yards. Muzzy 3-blade hits 3" left. Other brands I have tried usually hit 2-4 inches left or right up or down. Steelforce seems to hit exactly like field tips so far but I dont like 2 blade heads. I can get good groups with each but cant get them to hit the same no matter what I do unless its mechanical. I do think speed has some to do with it.



Ya!!! Welcome to the money pit!!!! I'm having good luck with 2 Bladers at the moment. I'm wondering if the speed will affect the bare shaft method?  

What you thinking Mr Rumm?


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

Dont know if the speed is what the problem is or what. I kinda think God just dont like things flying around without feathers of some kind on em. I never tried bareshaft tuning when I was shooting 220-250 (the old days) but now at 309 it dont work for me. Get a group and change them sights to what you need at the moment or switch to mechanicals and forget about it. They do make a lovely big hole! 
(The Laws of Fizix according to Lil Wag.)


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## dparsons (Jan 22, 2005)

*re:broadhead tuning*

I am saying for me all these broadheads has the same point of impact the bare shaft gets a little tough tuning from twenty two thirty yards you cannot move the rest or nocking point more than 1/32 at a time ,and I always start with up and down then right too left, don't try two do both at the same time. All these broadhead are vented blades. I not saying this will work for every setup so don't start giving me down the road because the method doesn't work for you there are easier ways too tune your set up, and archers that has forgot more than I know ,but this setup works for me and I am sure it will work for others and if it works for you like it does for me you will love it.


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

I aint selling you out, I am just saying I cant do it. I wish I could. I have tried it on all my bows and cant make a bare shaft fly right at 20-30. I can only get about a 12 inch group and the tail goes every where in flight. I do use a bare shaft on paper tuning and I shoot at 6 and 10 feet to make sure that all I can see is the nock when its stuck in the target. I then shoot at 10, 20, 25, and 30 with a fletched shaft and look for correct arrow flight. I like to use soft dirt or sand for this because the shaft penetrates it straight each time and slowly stops the arrow and it stays there on line so I can see the results. What ever you are doin keep it up.


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## dparsons (Jan 22, 2005)

*re: broadhead*

Lil Wag it works for me that all I can say my arrow speed of 285 may be why. I should be able two get 308 if I drop the weight of my arrow too 350 but I am not into speed my setup works for me.


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## yelk hunter (Feb 18, 2004)

2004 I shot about 280 fps and just gave up and moved the sight. I was about 3-4" low and 2-3" right with BH's. 

This year, I am about 250 fps and BH = FP. Same bow,arrows, fp and BH. Yes, I have the correct FOC (12%) and 7595 GT so spine is correct, and Rocky Ti 125s. Muzzys and Stingers also hit the same place this year.

Speed? Don't know. I also changed strings and retuned. Maybe better tuning. At 450 gr total weight and a range finder, I don't care about the speed. Momenum and KE are a plenty! 

I can still get a 70 yard pin with the larger Spot Hogg and 5 pins (25, 40, 50, 60, 70). Still shoot flat enough that there is an "easy gap" from 25 to 40. The 60 & 70 are for FP practice so that the shorter ranges are easier.

Don't know that this answers anything, but I would like to hear what others are finding.


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## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

YBSLO said:


> Ya!!! Welcome to the money pit!!!! I'm having good luck with 2 Bladers at the moment. I'm wondering if the speed will affect the bare shaft method?
> 
> What you thinking Mr Rumm?


I really can't say--If I was to take a guess
The more speed I would tend to believe the all imperfections would be magnified--as Andy mentions above 





yelk hunter said:


> 2004 I shot about 280 fps and just gave up and moved the sight. I was about 3-4" low and 2-3" right with BH,


would this make a guy think--spine of arrow with BH--?

I think ARROW CHARTS are a good starting point but
when going to BH's it MAY change spine of arrow
or it's going back to BH's planing. Again arrow speed 
coming into affect. Which one I havn't a clue--maybe both.


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## dparsons (Jan 22, 2005)

*re:broads*

I don't know sorry I can not help I have tune other bows for friends the same way one cams ,two cams , and cams and a half, I thought this was a know fell system sorry for the info I hope this helps someone because its nice when field tips and broadheads hit the same place ,but the best thing is the sport of hunting with a bow that is tune two have great arrow flight moving the sights a little is a small price two pay.


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## andy7yo (Nov 22, 2005)

Due to different designs, each BH will have a sweet spot(tune) where it will fly like field tips. But brand A and brand B , assuming they are both quality BH's, will more than likely have different sweet spots i.e: not hitting exactly the same spot.

The best thing to do is pick the BH you want to shoot, tune it to the best of your ability and go hunting.

Just remember to make very small (1/32") adjustments at a time, have good and repeatable form and you will soon have arrows fighting for the same hole.


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## yelk hunter (Feb 18, 2004)

Rumm64 - Note that I did not change the weight or type of BH or field point nor arrow from year to year. Just changed speed/poundage and retuned with new strings.

Don't belive it is spine from the charts and stiffness - but - may be because of the additional 4-5 lbs. However, I do not think so because Field pts are all ok. I continually use 125 for both and shoot as if I were hunting (including leaving the quiver on). I am playing with Blazers and new FOC to see what that brings. So little time and so much money to try it all!!!


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

dparsons said:


> Try this if you are a release shooter with a dloop first check your FOC make sure that your FOC is at lest 10 percent then take a bare shaft ,and do a paper test untill you get bullet holes at about ten feet, then take three fletched shaft ,and too bare shaft at twenty yards, and shoot them untill they hit the same spot ,then back off two thirty yards ,and shoot the fletched shaft ,and bare shaft untill they groop togather. At this point you should be able two shoot the fieldpoint and broadhead with the fletched shaft and hit the same spot. I have done this with all my set ups for the past twenty plus years,know matter what broadhead I have used as long as the broadhead is the same weight as fieldpoint.



Ditto . Sounds really go to me!! I do almost the same thing and get field points and broadheads to fly the same. Only one thing to add. The final adjustments to correct the flight are very very small. It think alot of people call them micro adjustments. If you can move your rest or nock 1/164 th at a time it would be great. :thumbs_up


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## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

yelk hunter said:


> 2004 I shot about 280 fps and just gave up and moved the sight. I was about 3-4" low and 2-3" right with BH's.
> 
> Don't know that this answers anything, but I would like to hear what others are finding.


I'm not picking your post apart to be negative
But yes it does help
Shooting 280 fps and decided to give up--there more to that statement 
than one would like admit to(me anyways)--I wonder how many archer's fall into this
category but won't admit it?
And just repeat what they hear.
Which is "just retune"
And that may be fine for slower speeds but when arrow 
speeds excessed the 270fps i believe The other factors
that we talked about in earlier post has something(or all) to do with it

One guy's opinion

Anyone else?? We won't bite--LOL


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## Grampy™ (Nov 19, 2003)

rumm64 said:


> Anyone else?? We won't bite--LOL


Promise?

Ok, here is my $.02 worth.... Theoretically if a bow is tuned perfectly it should shoot all B/H's the same (assuming all weigh the same). But! (there is always a but) Is it worth the time and effort to tune a bow perfectly? 
I agree with one of the previous posters.... pick a Brd/Hd and tune your bow with it. If you get that one Brd/Hd hitting with your field point you have a very finely tuned bow. Go hunt.

Interesting question though...... There are way to many variables to state absolutely yes or no.... Hand Tourque being the first and formost variable.


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## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

Grampy™ said:


> Promise?
> 
> I agree with one of the previous posters.... pick a Brd/Hd and tune your bow with it.



I Promise----:laugh: 

So would one agree the most Bh's(but same weight) plane diffently
on diffent bow/arrow/fletching setups?
On speeds exceeding 270 fps
(assuming all other factors are taken out of the equation)
(draw length/poundage/cam type staying the same)

Sure looking that way to me-------- 

Believe it or not, this does help guys--Thank you


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

rumm64 I agree totally with your last post. They do fly a little differently because if they didnt, there would not be any difference between where any good broadhead would impact. I get very good groups with the different ones Ive shot but they are usually just a few inches between the groups. For that matter they would all fly the same as field points of the same weight right? When speeds get up there everything is so critical. I know my form isnt perfect and that is part of my problem with bare shafts but its good enough that you dont want me shootin at your arrow with a broadhead.


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

*Lil Wag:*

I've found myself in the same situation.

First take what I say with a grain of salt - I have very limited experience, and have only tried one BH (3-blade Muzzys in 100 grain). 

Anyway, I've had a bear of a time getting BH to fly with FP. I've spent hours on my own and at my pro shop. Could not even get paper tuned for a long while. Anyway, with much time and a lot of work I seemed to have things close. I could get bullet holes with both fletched and unfletched vanes. But rest was way off center shot and bare shaft was OK at 10 yds, but got really bad after that. This was at 64#, 29 in, 100 grains and 340 spine. Charts show this should be OK, but unfletched shaft was flying wildly to left beyond 15 yds. Even tried 125 FP but got little/no improvement. 

I finally cranked bow to 70# and flight increased dramatically. I returned rest to center shot, moved sights and was pretty close at 70#. Paper tune good, and bare shafts fly with fletched arrows out to 30 yds. I shot only 2 BH while there, but they flew closer to FP than I've ever had. 

I am not comfortable at 70#, so now its off to shop for weaker arrows.

So, while my arrows were spined according to the shaft selector, it appears that they are still too stiff. Or my bow scale is off. But scale seems to agree with 4#/turn off of max that Martin estimates.


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## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

Aggie94 said:


> I've found myself in the same situation.
> 
> First take what I say with a grain of salt - I have very limited experience, and have only tried one BH (3-blade Muzzys in 100 grain). .


Grain on salt? ---NO I will not--Your out there trying and not afraid to post
This is how we learn from one another.--Thank you




Aggie94 said:


> I am not comfortable at 70#, so now its off to shop for weaker arrows..


If you get new arrows? Please keep us updated --Did the weaker spine help?
And do you know your speed,arrow weight,carbon or aluminum, and fletching type used?




Aggie94 said:


> So, while my arrows were spined according to the shaft selector, it appears that they are still too stiff. Or my bow scale is off. But scale seems to agree with 4#/turn off of max that Martin estimates.


This kind of surprizes me--are you saying spine to stiff with a broadhead?
(but O.K. with feild tip)
In my limited exper. I've alway had to go stiffer when switching to broadheads.
hhhhmmmm--let us know


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## capt ace (Nov 11, 2005)

Aggie 94, before you go invest in weaker spined arrows, you may want to check your grip placement for torque. I recently purchased a hoyt protec that max's out at fifty lbs.For years I have shot heavy pound bows but as I've gotten older I've had to decrease pulling weight.
What I've discovered when trying to paper tune my protec was that I could not shoot the existing grip that came with the bow. I kept getting right tears in paper (shaft acting too stiff) no matter what I did with the pro tec. I changed arrows up and down the spine scale to no avail.
After reading on here about grip torque I tried holding the bow out more towards my thumb and low and behold I got a perfect tear in the paper.I was not comfortable holding the bow this way so in desperation I took the grip completely off the bow and just shoot it off the riser.I get perfect tears now without having to worry about how I'm holding the bow.
When I use to shoot heavy pounds the grip torque was never an issue as I think the increased holding weight was negating it.
For what it's worth try holding the bow( if your not doing it already) more out towards your thumb and see if you can get the bow to paper tune at 60lbs. with your existing arrows. Who knows, you may save yourself the cost of a dozen arrows.


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## yelk hunter (Feb 18, 2004)

Just an FYI if you are trying weaker shafts - 

I started (65-70lbs, 28.5" arrow, 125 gr fp and BH) with a CE 400 shaft = no good groups with BH. Tried GT 5575 = kinda ok BH groups. Then 7595 and much better groups.

I think that an 'overly stiff' shaft is not as big a problem as underspined - at least that is what I found.


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

rumm64 said:


> Grain on salt? ---NO I will not--Your out there trying and not afraid to post
> This is how we learn from one another.--Thank you
> 
> 
> ...


Carbon, EPIC 340, 4 inch vanes, don't know speed,


rumm64 said:


> This kind of surprizes me--are you saying spine to stiff with a broadhead?
> (but O.K. with feild tip)
> In my limited exper. I've alway had to go stiffer when switching to broadheads.
> hhhhmmmm--let us know


No, it seems too stiff with both BH and FT.


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

Aggie,
You could be on to something that I have noticed as well. My weaker spined arrows PSE 300 26 1/2" tune easier than the XT 55/75 at 27". Im shooting 70# with 29" draw. And the PSEs are about 325 fps. I kinda like the sound of that. I still cant make them shoot without vanes though at 30 yards. Some fly good and some look like cork screws. The PSEs dont hold up either though. Ive done busted up 2 dozen this year. Its something to play with. I shot one of the Carbon Revolutions the other day with my Allegiance and got 363 fps out of it. I dont know what the weight was but it flat had smoke coming off it. I only had the guts to do it twice though.


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

OK, here's a brief and incomplete update. I picked up some carbon Excels yesterday in 400 spine. I checked FOC with 100 grain field tips, stripped fletching on a couple and shot a few rounds. I moved nothing on the bow (rest, nock or sights).

Paper tuning still looks good, both with fletched arrows and bare. 

Bare shafts fly with fletched at 15 and 25 yds.

The new arrows hit left of where the stiffer, heavier arrows hit.

One note is that the shop did not have arrows with vanes, so, being in a hurry, I went with feathers. I hate changing two things at once!

I did not have time to shoot BH.

What does this mean? Are the weaker arrows better for my setup even though the charts indicate stiffer? Is it just that weaker arrows are more forgiving, and thus easier to tune than stiffer? Am I doing something wrong?

Also, an earlier post mentioned torque...I changed my grip about a year ago to a more open, low-wrist grip that helped me eliminate a problem with torque. My bow has a non-slip rubber grip which possibly magnifies this. I've used the vaseline trick to help confirm I'm letting the bow sit against my hand without twisting.

Rumm64: I hope I'm not getting too far off your topic. I just meant to add a data point. Though now I am really interested in the possibility that maybe weaker arrows are more forgiving. Any thoughts?


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## rumm64 (Feb 21, 2003)

Aggie

Man you really got my wheels turning now--LOL

At 29" arrow with 100 grain tip and add 40 grains for fletching 
- notch and insert arrow weight in neigborhood of 375 grains?
shooting at #64 If i was to guess your probably pushing the 
265 fps mark--??

May I ask what kind of cams you have on your bow?
(or your entire setup)




Aggie94 said:


> I did not have time to shoot BH.



And I'm very interested in how your 100 grain Muzzy reacts
to the 400's.




Aggie94 said:


> What does this mean? Are the weaker arrows better for my setup even though the charts indicate stiffer? Is it just that weaker arrows are more forgiving, and thus easier to tune than stiffer?


These are very good questions.
I had the same exper. as yelk hunter




yelk hunter said:


> I think that an 'overly stiff' shaft is not as big a problem as underspined - at least that is what I found.


So what your saying really throws a diffent wrench in the pot-
Let us know


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

*My Setup:*

OK, my setup is as follows:

* Martin Phantom II (2003 model)
* Fuzion Cam (single cam)
* 29 in.
* 64#
* Even tiller
* TM hunter (prong-type rest) - curently aligned with balanced limb centers
* I nock my arrow below the nock on my string (which is 3/8 or a little more above square with bottom of rest) with a rubber bumper under than and my release goes below that
* Tru-Fire caliper release - not sure the exact model, but it has a large pad that lays in my palm and a ball joint between that and the caliper to releive torque (but joint has limited travel)
* Arrows: traditionally 29" Easton Epic 340, 4 in vanes, 100 grain, 11% FOC (also tried 125 grain field tips in troubleshooting)
* Arrows now 29" Easton Excel 400, 4 in feathers, 100 grain, 13% FOC

Any other info that would help, please ask.


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

*More info*

OK, I did some more shooting today. I may have a little more work to do to really get it fine tuned. But things seem to be pretty close. 

Bare shafts are getting a little low compared to fletched arrows out at 30 and 35 yards. 

BH grouped with field tips at 15 and 25, but were also about 3 in low at 35. 

My sights need some adjusting before getting farther out than 35 or I'll risk missing my target. 

The good news for me is that I have BH flying closer to field points than I have ever gotten with the stiffer arrows.


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## rs1 (Dec 29, 2005)

*BH alignment*

My 2 cents worth.

There are many items above that are right on the money in my opinion (FOC, spine, tuning!, etc...)

One thing I've found that helps it to make sure the broad heads are aligned with the arrow. Field point alignment doesn't matter much, but BH alignment can cause problems. I like to put a small dot on the wall in line with the tip of the arrow while it is in a straigtner. By turning the arrow you can visually see if the tip wanders from the dot. Alignment is not too difficult. I like to apply enough heat to soften the hot melt by installing a heated field point then press the point aganst a hard surface to change alignment of the insert. Then recheck the arrow again. It can be time consuming, but is worth it. With the quality of arrows and inserts these days I don't find too may that need much adjustment. 

The lower profile/lighter BHs makes alignment somewhat less critical. I have shot the Rocky Ultimate Steel heads up to 50 yds and they group with field points (at least within my ability to shoot at taht distance).

Regarding arrow spine. I tend to agree that you don't want an arrow that is under splined. Like many folks, I tend to shoot an arrow that is under spined (according to the Easton charts) for target/3D. When shooting larger profile BHs, I find it helpful to shoot a slightly stiffer arrow.


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

aggie what did the weaker shaft do as far as the bare shafts flight in your testing.


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

Lil Wag said:


> aggie what did the weaker shaft do as far as the bare shafts flight in your testing.


With the weaker arows, the bare shaft impacted in the same group with the fletched arrows at 15yd and 25 yd. At 35 yd, the average of the two bare shafts was runing 3-4 inches low compared to the center of the fletched group.


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## Roland (Oct 16, 2002)

*my .02 cents*

I'll add that all release's aren't created equal and can create torque. I use both a carter quickie and a Scott handheld and get different impact points. Not to noticable at closer ranges but you start to see the difference at 40 plus yards. just curious if others have seen this phenomenom.


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## yelk hunter (Feb 18, 2004)

couple of experiences

Yes, 2-3" difference in impact R to L between short n sweet and Scott rhino -though both look the same - it must be a slight change in anchor.

I use the arrow squaring device on the shaft, after CUTTING BOTH ENDS TO INCREASE STRAIGHTNESS (the most variance is on the ends due to way arrows made), and then on the insert. This has helped.

Agree with BH tip - spin, get it with no wobble. Rocky Ti ususally dead on, Stingers dead on, Muzzys - well, because the tip screws on you get some variance but, figure out which way it is off, put point on a hard surface and push gently. I can usually get them dead on with some work like this.

I shoot GTs. Another wrench!!!! I shoot the GT with 40 gr backweight (on the inside of the shaft, into the insert) with Ti 85's! They react and group with the 125 bh's. This is my deer and grouse BH. Just like more cut on an elk.

I am supposed to be working but Aggie - is the Martin classified as a 'hard cam' - i know my Xtec cam-1/2 is and reacts that way. I wonder - if it is not - then that may be why the 'weaker' spine reacts better.

per led zepplin - Ramble on!


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

yelk hunter said:


> I am supposed to be working but


LOL, yeah, me too - thank goodness for lunch time:secret: 



yelk hunter said:


> Aggie - is the Martin classified as a 'hard cam' - i know my Xtec cam-1/2 is and reacts that way. I wonder - if it is not - then that may be why the 'weaker' spine reacts better.


Yes, it is considered hard. If I'm throwing a wrench in the whole thing, please remember - I may still be doing something wrong.


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## yelk hunter (Feb 18, 2004)

sorry, but I can't help this

They catcht **** at A&M and on the first offence, they cut off the middle finger.

On the second offence, they cut off the ring finger.

You may have seen them in Austin yelling "Hook 'em Horns".


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

Yeah I have run into this before as well. If I shoot a caliper with wide jaws it will hit a little off from where my Scott Little Goose and Little Bitty Goose hits. I think it has to do with the thickness and length of the jaws.

Aggie did the bare shaft fly any straighter with the weaker spine. Did the tail move around as much as the stiffer ones did?


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## Aggie94 (Nov 19, 2003)

Lil Wag said:


> Aggie did the bare shaft fly any straighter with the weaker spine. Did the tail move around as much as the stiffer ones did?


Yeah, significant improvement here. The stiff bare shafts were angling hard to the left at longer distances - very noticable and ugly in flight. With the weaker ones, I have not been able to detect any fishtailing visually.

Incidintally, someone suggested OnTarget as an alternative to the Easton shaft selector. OnTarget still recommends the 340s (stiffer arrows). Hhmmmm?


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## Zen Archery (Jul 27, 2004)

geez - keep it simple dudes! do what i do. buy 2 similar sites for the bow. 1 for field points 1 for broadheads. by the time you finish jacking around with arrows, points, b.hd's., knocking, etc... it would have ben cheaper to buy another site.

i like speed for target shooting (75 gr field point). i like heavey and huge cutting di. when hunting 150 gr b.h. Solution - 2 sites!


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## Lil Wag (Nov 17, 2005)

thanks Aggie. I will have to give it a try with weaker shafts. I cant stand it that everybody can do this cept me. My bare shafts tale left as well.


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