# New Bow Speed World Record !!!!



## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

A new IAIA World Speed record was set yesterday , the new record was 593 FPS out of a 80# Compound, and a 97 grain arrow  OK I'm messing with ya.. Just looked at a thread on another forum here where someone was saying they needed to get more speed from their bow, they didn't know what speed they were getting but knew they needed more LOL. Randy

PS can you guess what IAIA stands for??


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

Speed is overrated! I would much rather ride a MotoGuzzi at 50mph and enjoy the scenery than ride a Ninja at 150mph where my surroundings are all a blur. But, we're all different, and some guys just need that adrenalin rush!

IAIA = International Association of Inane Archery ?


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## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

Is speed _really _that overated? I don't think so. Suppose a guy wants a fast bow so that he can shoot the same heavy arrow just as fast as the guy with a 5 or 10# heavier bow. Or, the guy has a relatively short draw length like me (27") and the only way to make up for it is to buy a heavier bow or get a speed bow with a lighter draw weight than the heavier bow that he could have bought.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Actual speed isn't so important as long as you're (finger shooter) using a consistent aiming system.

What's more important in using a Chrono is to check you get the same speed shot after shot because if your form is weak in this area it doesn't matter how fast your bow is you wont get consistent shots.


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## Jamesw (Sep 14, 2007)

Speed is just one way of measuring performance.More just means more performance to work with.You don't have to use it for more speed.As someone above says you can use it for heavier arrows or to drop bow weights.

The fact remains if you have two bows that feel and shoot just alike and one is noticably faster than the other every person on here would buy the faster bow instead of the slower one.Yeah we might not need it,like to talk junk about it but we all look for the best performance we can get and still keep other qualities the same in our bows.It is just good common sense to want to get the most out of a bow.:darkbeer: jmo


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

It doesn't matter how fast the arrow goes, it it doesn't hit the intended target.

Next we will have solid rocket fuel in the arrow and ignite it with a lighted nock to propell our 100 dollar each arrows to a steel plate to stop them. We will have to wear hearing protection from the sonic boom created by the arrow. Bows will become so complicated that a degree in bow mechanics will be required to repair them and they will cost 20,000 dollars.

Silly, yes. where does it stop? In the name of progress we have become like golf. We are not able so we rely on the equipment.
Why not a longbow with a laser sight? Put the red dot on the target and have at it.


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## sj_lutz (Feb 25, 2005)

howard hill jr said:


> *It doesn't matter how fast the arrow goes, it it doesn't hit the intended target.*
> Next we will have solid rocket fuel in the arrow and ignite it with a lighted nock to propell our 100 dollar each arrows to a steel plate to stop them. We will have to wear hearing protection from the sonic boom created by the arrow. Bows will become so complicated that a degree in bow mechanics will be required to repair them and they will cost 20,000 dollars.
> 
> Silly, yes. where does it stop? In the name of progress we have become like golf. We are not able so we rely on the equipment.
> Why not a longbow with a laser sight? Put the red dot on the target and have at it.


Yup. Course that's a two way street; a slow arrow doesn't equal an accurate one any more than a fast one is by default going to be inaccurate.


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## tuffshot (Jan 3, 2004)

I talked with a young man this past weekend about his new compound. It chroned at 354 FPS. He had a worried look on his face when I told him he had better becareful on the range as there are several targets out there that are shot up pretty good and he will blow right thru them. Carbons ain't cheap.


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## marc weier (May 26, 2009)

A faster bow is a more efficient bow, resulting in less handshock and noise generally. I will take my fast 49# over a slow 60#er anyday but yet the same weight arrows fly the same speed. I bet anyone would shoot a bow 10 #'s lighter alot better too.


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

With a fast arrow you can miss quicker.


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

The actual point that is being missed is: Speed for speeds sake in ok. but to over permote it serves only to line the pockets of the bow mfg. They found a way to compete thier product and an insecure public bought into it.
The key word is efficient accuracy. Speed freaks are missing the point.
speed was sought because with a faster bow you don't have to judge distance as well to hit the bale. You can have a one or two pin sight.
but somewhere it got away for us and we chased speed and equated it with
quality, better, I suppose bow are more accurate than the archer now. so next year what do they do to sell you another bow? what can we glue on to make it marketable to next years archer with disposable income?
oh, I got it! Mine is faster than yours. Just don't try to justify what you want by saying it is what you need. Be satisfied and secure enought to say it is what I want regardless of need. At least you will be honest.


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## tuffshot (Jan 3, 2004)

Actually jr.

Marc hit on one of the objectives or todays faster bows. Less poundage with more efficiency (speed came naturally) Risers cut to center shot, new string material and limb design all are a plus for the archer. Marketing on the other hand looses something in the translation when it comes to promoting a bow. OL's bows were a prime example, effciency, speed with less poundage with a heavier arrow.

Even the archer has made changes in his form and technique to adapt. 
The thing to remember all bows are not created equal.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Faster may not be more efficient, it could be, but it may not be, depending on a ton of factors. I wrote out a long post on efficiency then I decided to just just post this: Distance (assuming a standard grains per lb draw weight) is the most logical result to measuring efficiency of bows. I know how far I am pulling weight, so how far will it go sort of thinking. Other than this I can't decide on which of a hundred ways to measure efficiency is better, but I am sure marketing can come up with one that sells more product.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Jr- you seem to be looking at speed in the wrong way. I build all of my equipment, and I still try to build a fast bow. Even my fastest bow will probaably only shoot a 10 gpp arrow at maybe 160 fps or so (I don't know, I don't know where to chrono it). I can't even shoot lighter arrows because wood and sinew aren't as efficient as fiberglass, as it doesn't help speed any. I'ev built a couple bows that shot faster than fiberglass longbows because the draw weight was too low for the big heavy tips it had on it. 

So say we had two bows, exact same design and weight. One, however, was only shooting 140 fps. The other was shooting 180 fps. They're the same style and weight, mind you. Most archers would shoot the latter bow better because the trajectory would be less to contend with for the most part. So that faster bow would be more accurate, because it's more forgiving to the archer. Sighted bows really benefit from this, as they need fewer pins as a result.

I'll also say this: most recurves that are faster than my wooden bows are also designed to be more forgiving for _better accuracy _as well.


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## sj_lutz (Feb 25, 2005)

howard hill jr said:


> With a fast arrow you can miss quicker.


OK. So with a slow arrow you can take a little longer to miss.


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## Jamesw (Sep 14, 2007)

> With a fast arrow you can miss quicker.


With a faster arrow you can hit more often too.:wink:
You name sake certainly knew the benefit of shooting faster bows with better cast.Read up on his setups sometimes.This lobbing heavy arrows trend and not worrying about performance with traditional bows is pretty new in archery.Every person that ever built a bow has and will continue to make the next one a little better than the one before.It is the nature of man to seek improvement in what we do. jmo


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sj_lutz said:


> Yup. Course that's a two way street; a slow arrow doesn't equal an accurate one any more than a fast one is by default going to be inaccurate.


+1

Some people take speed to personally and use it as a status symbol or feel it's some kind of personal attack on their own choice in bow.

There's nothing wrong with pursueing or wanting a fast bow. Why else do you think bows come in different shapes and sizes and we are not just stuck with one design. 

Generally speaking...it doesn't automatically make someone a freak because they like fast bows just as there is nothing wrong with shooting a slower bow.

Ray


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Jamesw said:


> With a faster arrow you can hit more often too.:wink:
> You name sake certainly knew the benefit of shooting faster bows with better cast.Read up on his setups sometimes.This lobbing heavy arrows trend and not worrying about performance with traditional bows is pretty new in archery.Every person that ever built a bow has and will continue to make the next one a little better than the one before.It is the nature of man to seek improvement in what we do. jmo


+1

Ray


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

howard hill jr said:


> The actual point that is being missed is: Speed for speeds sake in ok. but to over permote it serves only to line the pockets of the bow mfg. They found a way to compete thier product and an insecure public bought into it.
> The key word is efficient accuracy. Speed freaks are missing the point.
> speed was sought because with a faster bow you don't have to judge distance as well to hit the bale. You can have a one or two pin sight.
> but somewhere it got away for us and we chased speed and equated it with
> ...


.......hey, Jr....Ask Your dad why He shot such heavy bows, and also check out the bow weight VS. grain per pound of arrow weight that Your Dad shot....I bet that You will be surprised....Also, if an Archer can shoot a 50# bow that shoots the same weight arrow , just as fast, as a 60# bow, why wouldnt that Archer choose the lighter/faster bow??...Lower draw weight = easier, funner bow to shoot, and most likely better accuracy and form.....It's a Win-Win choice....Take care........Harperman


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

ravensgait said:


> A new IAIA World Speed record was set yesterday , the new record was 593 FPS out of a 80# Compound, and a 97 grain arrow  OK I'm messing with ya..


While it is no big deal, I gotta say I'm not a big fan of threads titled under false pretenses...

Next time perhaps you can just say what you mean rather than trying to trick people into reading your thread.


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## snowcamoman (Aug 25, 2009)

*Slower and accurate*

I go for controllable speed and accuracy. But if I could get a crazy fast, accurate shot, I'd take it if it doesn't mean burning out my shoulders holding 100 pounds.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

Warbow said:


> While it is no big deal, I gotta say I'm not a big fan of threads titled under false pretenses...
> 
> Next time perhaps you can just say what you mean rather than trying to trick people into reading your thread.


LMAO did you miss the part where I said OK I'm messing with you?? So please in the future try and refrain from reading into things, you are not very good at it.. Randy


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

ravensgait said:


> LMAO did you miss the part where I said OK I'm messing with you?? So please in the future try and refrain from reading into things, you are not very good at it.. Randy


No, Randy, I didn't miss that joking part ***in the body of the post**, I even quoted it just so you'd know I'd seen it. But the title of your post was misleading--posted under false colors. I'm not a big fan of tricks like that. But, as I already said, it isn't a big deal, I just think people should use the actual subject of their topic as the title not a fabrication.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

im glad the speed craz has happened.

i need a speed bow to get descent speed with lighter arrows.

my bow has a ibo of 340 i have a 26.75 dl and i use it a 59# ( thats what it maxes at. i need to get heavier limbs)

but i can hit in the upper 270s now with a 370 grain arrow and in the 280s with my lighter 346 gr arrows

my last bow ibo was 305 with the same specs but at 60# and 26.5 dl i got 234 on a good day.


i see it as i can now shoot a heavier arrow faster and get more ke and flatter shooting.

us short draw guys need fast bows.

o and that fast bows = a fast miss is the most ******ed thing i ever heard.

a miss is a miss wether fast or slow. the speed bows of today are very accurate.


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## Flint Hills Tex (Nov 3, 2008)

kegan said:


> So that faster bow would be more accurate, because it's more forgiving to the archer. Sighted bows really benefit from this, as they need fewer pins as a result.
> 
> I'll also say this: most recurves that are faster than my wooden bows are also designed to be more forgiving for _better accuracy _as well.


Okay, yes, a _forgiving_ bow will help with accuracy, but, without pretending to be an expert, 'cause I'm not, I've heard and read that a faster bow tends to be _less_ forgiving. Sure, you get a flatter trajectory, but the slightest inconsistency in form would tend to cause greater inaccuracy than with a slower bow. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Warbow, ease up on Randy. It's just in fun! Where's your sense of humor?


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## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

Flint Hills Tex said:


> Okay, yes, a _forgiving_ bow will help with accuracy, but, without pretending to be an expert, 'cause I'm not, I've heard and read that a faster bow tends to be _less_ forgiving.


I have read this a lot in regards to compounds and then comes along the Mathews Monster and from I have heard/read, it is supposed to be a very easy bow to shoot. As far as traditional bows are concerned, I haven't shot enough different bows to know what is forgiving or not. I know that my new A&H ACS-CX is a fun bow to shoot and I have experienced no discomfort, vibrations, handshock etc etc.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Flint Hills Tex said:


> Okay, yes, a _forgiving_ bow will help with accuracy, but, without pretending to be an expert, 'cause I'm not, I've heard and read that a faster bow tends to be _less_ forgiving. Sure, you get a flatter trajectory, but the slightest inconsistency in form would tend to cause greater inaccuracy than with a slower bow. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.
> 
> Warbow, ease up on Randy. It's just in fun! Where's your sense of humor?


To a degree, yeah. As AKM said that seems to be true for some of the newer low-brace height compound bows, and it's definately true for older bows (like the ones form Howard Hill's days). 

But your average modern laminated recurve should be about 10-30 fps faster than, say, one of my wooden bows, but also be more forgiving due to the heavy riser, ability to tune to a higher degree of precision, deflex which reduces shock as the midlimbs move forward, and torque-free grip/handle. I think where that addage came from is the same place that said longbows are more forgiving than recurves, and that being the old trend from the all wood, or almost all wood days.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Warbow said:


> Next time perhaps you can just say what you mean rather than trying to trick people into reading your thread.



If this is a compound bow, what is it even being discussed in a TRADITIONAL FORUM?


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

ravensgait said:


> LMAO did you miss the part where I said OK I'm messing with you?? So please in the future try and refrain from reading into things, you are not very good at it.. Randy


Yep, they totaly missed the part where they were being messed with.
Rocket powered arrows should have given it away you think.

Nobody cares what you shoot or how, just shoot. Lighten up and laugh.
I enjog the 5 compounds I shoot and the dozen or so stick bows. It is all fun just different.

Keep them cards and letters rolling in.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

Well since this seems to be the subject here and an interesting one.

Can't really compare the shooting of the newest Compounds to shooting stick bows . Though I suppose if you used a release, drop away rest ETC on a fast stick bow lol. I was playing with a Hoyt X-8 last year, sure not a super speed bow but way faster than any stick. The X-8 has a higher brace height and longer ATA than the majority of Compounds out there and also out weighs any two stick bows plus. I will say it was easier to shoot with fingers than I expected it to be but still had a drop away rest ETC ETC. And it was a bit touchy compared to a stick bow lol.

I said this in another thread about speed, faster does make for touchier, I mentioned a Hybrid I was messing with, the bow was fast and I tuned it up with the lightest arrows I could to see just how fast. The biggest problem I saw as far a being touchy was its short length it is 58". The same bow 4 inches or more in length would have been easier to shoot ( I have a 30" draw) and if I added weight to it that would help it as well. Granted I've been shooting stick bows for a long long time and hope by now have a decent release lol but the hybrid wasn't that touchy to shoot. I think a rank beginner would have had trouble with it but any one with a decent release could get use to it.

Hey I like fast and will give a little to noise and touchiness if the speed gain is worth the trade off to me. No longer into Fast Cars ETC but still like to see my arrows move out.. Randy


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

It's all about finding the right balance in performance that fits each and every one of us.

What one person shoots shouldn't be viewed as a direct attack on anyone's ego. 

Just because I prefer to shoot a fast bow has NOTHING to do with what anyone else shoots and shouldn't be a direct reflection of anyone other than what I prefer to shoot and what fits me personally.

I'm no better of a person based on how fast, slow, modern or primitive my equipment is.

Ray


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

BLACK WOLF said:


> It's all about finding the right balance in performance that fits each and every one of us.
> 
> What one person shoots shouldn't be viewed as a direct attack on anyone's ego.
> 
> ...


Exactly. My harang was not more than a comedic diversion. For years I shot field archery and there were always those who felt thier way was the only way. They didn't do as much as they thought they did for the sport. I have no strong opinions about any aspect of archery. If it works fine. I am constantly supprised what works and what does not.
I just thought the speed record was funny and fanned the fire.
Sorry if it got out of hand.

I think the whole reason for heavy longbows it to up the speed. It just makes it eaiser to hit a target.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

howard hill jr said:


> I think the whole reason for heavy longbows it to up the speed. It just makes it eaiser to hit a target.


Not always, at least not for me at least. My heavier bows don't shoot any faster than a lighter bow with a 10 or so gpp arrow, but the heavier arrow moving at the same speed is the only logical way to get more power.

Not that I _need_ it. You know, until dinosaurs start running rampant:devil:.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

One thing I think many of us over look when reading the responses of others here is that though they may come off as seeming to say do it my way(yeah some are saying my way or the HW but most are not) they are for the most part just trying to get their point across or to get you to maybe try their way and see how it works for you .

I started this thread because of something I read in another forum that struck me as funny and this thread was meant humorously. It got onto an interesting topic , though one with no real written in stone answer just as many aspects of this sport have no written in stone answers. A little but this way or that and the answer changes sometimes a great deal.. Randy


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## Jamesw (Sep 14, 2007)

It is all good.:darkbeer:

We all find what works for us and it changes from time to time as we go on.I shoot all kinds of bows and have hunted with most of them.Slow,fast,heavy,light ect and it really don't matter in the end.The results are always the same when we use each one in the fashon that brings us succesess.It is a good thing bowhunting is not a team sport because we all set our own rules in this game.That is what attracts most of it to it in the first place.:wink:


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## B!NGO (May 2, 2008)

If it wasn’t for our need to improve. With our endless state of dissatisfaction with the current status quo, we would never have invented the bow and arrow in the first place. We would still be picking berries and scavenging off of wolf kills. I say bring on the speed, bring on the progress! I will not stop looking until I find a bow that will melt my face, with the sheer joy of shooting it. And if we didn’t... what the hell would we talk about here anyway!!


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## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

AKM said:


> Is speed _really _that overated? I don't think so. Suppose a guy wants a fast bow so that he can shoot the same heavy arrow just as fast as the guy with a 5 or 10# heavier bow. Or, the guy has a relatively short draw length like me (27") and the only way to make up for it is to buy a heavier bow or get a speed bow with a lighter draw weight than the heavier bow that he could have bought.


Speed is over rated for most, all they are going to do is miss quicker! :shade:


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

BowmanJay said:


> Speed is over rated for most, all they are going to do is miss quicker! :shade:


That's been said... alot. Coming from a guy who actually shoots slow bows- I think that's a load of malarky.

In order to shoot with a slow bow, your mind must make constant assesments- much more demanding assesments- of distance. With a fast bow, shooting from 20 to 40 shouldn't be an issue. Shooting a slow bow, anything beyond 20 becomes very difficult to do quickly (and most hunters don't have all the time in the world). Super fast trad bows, those over about 190 fps, making shooting at closer range much more a matter of "pointing and shooting" than a calculation, even on a subconscious level, of distance.

For those who don't shoot over 15 yards, it won't matter. For hunters who would like to maximize their shot opportunities with repeated accuracy at 25-40 yards, the faster bows make this a possibility. You may be able to shoot that far on a target, or farther, but alot can happen before your arrow gets there and your brain probably won't have to time to gauge that distance anyway.

Been there- *messed up that*!


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

kegan said:


> That's been said... alot. Coming from a guy who actually shoots slow bows- I think that's a load of malarky.
> 
> In order to shoot with a slow bow, your mind must make constant assesments- much more demanding assesments- of distance. With a fast bow, shooting from 20 to 40 shouldn't be an issue. Shooting a slow bow, anything beyond 20 becomes very difficult to do quickly (and most hunters don't have all the time in the world). Super fast trad bows, those over about 190 fps, making shooting at closer range much more a matter of "pointing and shooting" than a calculation, even on a subconscious level, of distance.
> 
> ...


+1!!!!!

Ray


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## sooperrooster (Apr 9, 2007)

*wow*

i thought the guys out here dissing my old 30-30 and beaming bout their 300 win mags were weird. a new slow bow is no less accurate than a fast bow. if a person isn't able to hit a mark with a slow bow practice is all one needs. self bows not so sure given the wood fatigue. same as in the gun world uber magnums with 18 power scopes can hit long range targets consistantly and the same targets get hit with sharps rifles from the 1800's with nifty flip up iron sights. distance shooting is all about practice and consistancy not speed.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

sooperrooster said:


> i thought the guys out here dissing my old 30-30 and beaming bout their 300 win mags were weird. a new slow bow is no less accurate than a fast bow. if a person isn't able to hit a mark with a slow bow practice is all one needs. self bows not so sure given the wood fatigue. same as in the gun world uber magnums with 18 power scopes can hit long range targets consistantly and the same targets get hit with sharps rifles from the 1800's with nifty flip up iron sights. distance shooting is all about practice and consistancy not speed.


I disagree. If the same archer were equally comfortable with two bows of similiar weight, tune, etc., the hunter would find it easier to shoot the quicker bow under hunting conditions, _provided they don't limit themselves only to shorter range shots_. Now, for the hunter who only has a few chances at a shot, the faster bow might mean the difference between being able to take an ethical shot at 35 yards, or having to wait until next season to get a 20 yard shot on that deer, hog, etc. 

Of course it's just a personal thing. But if you've ever tried to shoot a very slow bow before... yeah- not as much fun, even on targets.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sooperrooster said:


> distance shooting is all about practice and consistancy not speed.


I wouldn't say it's ALL about just practice and consistantcy.

If we were all machine like and shot with precision every time...I might agree with ya...but than again...if we were all like that...we wouldn't really need to practice.

There's a thing called human error...we all have to deal with and when a piece of equipment is designed to reduce human error in most cases it will make an archer more accurate even if it's just by a few points or slightly tighter groups.

Speed can reduce human error. A faster arrow will have less deviation in trajectory than a slow arrow. Just compare the sight pins on a bow that shoots an arrow 210fps to a bow that shoots 150fps.

When you see it from that stand point it should be obvious an archer shooting a fast bow can get away with more in regards to errors in yardage estimation.

With that being said....Speed is NO substitute for good quality practice but it can reduce the effects of human error in specific circumstances.

Ray


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## sooperrooster (Apr 9, 2007)

like i said not an accuracy issue. it's a shooter issue not a bow issue. a fast bow is easier to shoot not more accurate. less arc makes estimation alot simplier, but that is not accuracy. a tuned slow bow shot indoors by a machine should be no less accurate than a tuned fast bow. again its the shooter that misses the mark not the bow.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sooperrooster said:


> like i said not an accuracy issue. it's a shooter issue not a bow issue. a fast bow is easier to shoot not more accurate. less arc makes estimation alot simplier, but that is not accuracy. a tuned slow bow shot indoors by a machine should be no less accurate than a tuned fast bow. again its the shooter that misses the mark not the bow.


But it IS an accuracy issue. The closer a marksman is to the bullseye...the more accurate they are...so if a faster bow can reduce human error...it increases the accuracy factor by decreasing the effect of a miscalculation in distance by getting an 8 instead of a 5 on 3D target for example.

It is easier to be more accurate with a faster bow than it is a slower one. There's no way around it....generally speaking...especailly at longer distances. You've already acknowledged it's easier.

Ray


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## sooperrooster (Apr 9, 2007)

no thats confusing skill with physics. if the equpment is tuned a slow arrow goes where it is pointed just like a fast one. tuned slow arrows do not swerve off target once shot nor do they wobble off course. speed has nothing to do with anything. an inaccurate bow would launch the same arrow into different points even if launched exactly the same and aimed at the same spot. this would be why i cannot shot as well as an olympic archer even if i shot his/her bow. my fault not the bow


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sooperrooster said:


> no thats confusing skill with physics.


Seriously...it's NOT confusing skill with physics. It's acknowledging that we aren't machines and that we make mistakes...even the elite do...and how the equipment we choose to shoot can make up for the small errors we will make.

You ask just about any archer who competes in unmarked Field Archery competitions if they had to choose between a bow that shoots 150fps. and a bow that shoots 210fps. most will choose the faster bow if all other aspects were equal or the will at least acknowledge the advantages of a fast bow to a slow one.

Believe it or not...equipment does and will play a roll in how accurate an archer can be. If it didn't you would see primitive bows in the Olympics if accuracy relied completely on the archer and had absolutely NOTHING to do with the equipment. Even though the effects may just be a few points...the fact is...it still plays a roll in an archer's potential accuracy.

Ray


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## sooperrooster (Apr 9, 2007)

so beacause we can't shoot a slow bow well enough that means that the bow is inaccurate? no. all i am saying is that a slow bow does not mean less accurate. it can magnify our errors but those are our errors. and i know that just about everyone would pick a faster bow all things being equal, so would i, and that extra speed can be more forgiving of our mistakes. however, it does not make the bow 'not archer' inherently more accurate.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sooperrooster said:


> so beacause we can't shoot a slow bow well enough that means that the bow is inaccurate?


That's not what I'm saying at all.

In most cases you put a slow bow in a shooting machine and a fast bow in the shooting machine...they will both be stacking arrows on top of each other.

What I am saying is...a faster bow in the hands of an archer instead of a machine...can in fact reduce the effects of shooter error so speed can and does play a roll in how accurate an archer can be.

If a bow can magnify errors or reduce the effects of our errors...that right there indicates the bow in fact plays a roll in how accurate an archer can or can't be....especially in regards to unmarked distances at longer ranges.

If you study how much research has been put into Olympic bows and the arrows they use...you'll realize...equipment choice can make the difference between first or second place.

I have never once said that a faster bow will be more accurate out of a shooting machine than a slower one.

Again...the reality is...we are NOT machines. If we were machines...it wouldn't matter...so a bow designed to be more forgiving of shooter error...will help the archer be more accurate.

To imply or say that equipment choice plays absolutely no roll in an archer's accuracy....is wrong.

A part of me wishes we all could be machine like and not need to consider the different equipment choices that pertain to our goals...but choosing equipment is part of the fun...at least for me it is 

Ray


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## sooperrooster (Apr 9, 2007)

thanks i was talking about the bow itself only. not shooting a bow. i'm a bit of a balistics nerd. fun debate! i really enjoyed it. my wife tends to smack me when i get stubborn like this. and i completely agree with your last post.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

sooperrooster said:


> thanks i was talking about the bow itself only. not shooting a bow. i'm a bit of a balistics nerd. fun debate! i really enjoyed it. my wife tends to smack me when i get stubborn like this. and i completely agree with your last post.


No problem. Trying to communicate our thoughts over the internet can be challenging to say the least. 

I was hoping we would eventually understand each other. 

It's all good!

Ray


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## dominator (Jan 2, 2004)

*speed can increase accuracy?*

I am not an engineer, but I am an archer, and it seems to me, from a practical application, that speed does not assist with accuacy. Atleast in the compound world (and I suspect the same with traditional bows),most of the world's most accurate shooters are using bows that are not designed to give you speed. They, in most cases, are using bows with long axle to axle lengths, bows with high brace heights, and bows with smooth drawing cams instead of aggresive cams. None of the above contribute to greater speed, so if speed could help with accuracy, why are so many expert shooters using bows that are slower by design?


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

dominator said:


> I am not an engineer, but I am an archer, and it seems to me, from a practical application, that speed does not assist with accuacy. Atleast in the compound world (and I suspect the same with traditional bows),most of the world's most accurate shooters are using bows that are not designed to give you speed. They, in most cases, are using bows with long axle to axle lengths, bows with high brace heights, and bows with smooth drawing cams instead of aggresive cams. None of the above contribute to greater speed, so if speed could help with accuracy, why are so many expert shooters using bows that are slower by design?


 Big difference between a compounds 300+ feet per second and a sticks 200 FPS.. Many bows can depending on the way they are set up throw arrows over a pretty good range of speed.. Yet I think what is being discussed here is all things being pretty much equal a faster bow requires less guess work by the brain and is thus easier and more accurate .. Just because it is fast doesn't make a compound inaccurate put any in a shooting machine and they all will send arrow after arrow to the same point.. What many fail really wrap their minds around is that All people are not the same ! What one can do doesn't mean the next can..


With sights and known distances speed doesn't matter much but with or without sights at unknown distances and speed can be the difference between a hit and a clean miss. Kind of have to wrap your mind around it, it isn't just about arrows going faster..Randy


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

ravensgait said:


> Big difference between a compounds 300+ feet per second and a sticks 200 FPS.. Many bows can depending on the way they are set up throw arrows over a pretty good range of speed.. Yet I think what is being discussed here is all things being pretty much equal a faster bow requires less guess work by the brain and is thus easier and more accurate .. Just because it is fast doesn't make a compound inaccurate put any in a shooting machine and they all will send arrow after arrow to the same point.. What many fail really wrap their minds around is that All people are not the same ! What one can do doesn't mean the next can..
> 
> 
> With sights and known distances speed doesn't matter much but with or without sights at unknown distances and speed can be the difference between a hit and a clean miss. Kind of have to wrap your mind around it, it isn't just about arrows going faster..Randy


+1!

Ray


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

With traditional bows, some of the biggest features that make a bow slow are also bad for accuracy: vibration, unbalanced tiller, whip tillered ends. All of this is just energy left in the bow, and not in the arrow. So all of that is working for you now, as well as the aiming benefit Ravensgait explained.


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