# Pennsylvania



## Wholaverj (Jan 22, 2005)

Anyone in here from Pennsylvania? I am from Indiana Pa and was looking to find people to talk to around me to see what their views on hunting and how things are in the Keystone state. Anyway if anyone wants to talk to me on here go ahead I am new though.....feel free to personal message me or whatever it is. 

Im a avid archer and fisherman and I like to talk about hunting also.


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## CATgirl4u2 (Jan 20, 2005)

*Iup*

Hey! I went to school in Indiana, PA! I am just getting started in archery and fishing. I won't be hunting though! And I live in Maryland now, but the only deer I've injured in Indiana was with my car!!! Good luck! I will probably be at some 3D shoots out that way!


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## firestorm9mm (Jan 3, 2005)

Im from plains PA and the hunting down here is great. If you get a chance you are more than welcome to bring your bow and pull the string with us...


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## broken arrow123 (Nov 13, 2002)

*Pa.*

If you are not a PSAA or PFATA member, join now and enjoy great State Championship tournaments. This State has the most and the best tournaments that can be found anywhere.  
Check out my web site at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~baswb/archery/


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*.*

Hi, I live about 20 miles from you.. and the hunting up here this year wasn't to great. It was a really weird season we would go spoting pre-season and see 200-300 deer a night, fields like it was years ago with 50-60 deer in a field. But it was like they knew when hunting season (archery &rifle) came along, and disappeared. I was fortuante enough to get my first deer with a bow this year a doe. Missed a nice buck ( got the grapevine though) But I hunted probably about 15 days (archery) and only seen a total of maybe 10 deer from the stand. It wasn't how I remember it, I hunted archery when I was 12-13 and just came out of retirement (23 now) Rifle season I hunted, well I went, I wasn't going to shoot anything except if it was a nice buck. I always just try to just shoot one deer a year. 

I could sit here all night rambling on and on about this. Something needs to be down... people poaching and shooting deer illeagal need to be caught. It is people so self-centered in thinking they are tough that go out and shoot 10-20 deer a season, that need to be stopped. Or our grandchildren might not know what a deer even looks like. 

Thank god Gary Alt is gone. 2 week doe season. How you gona get more buck if all of them are being shot off as button buck? I read a article and it was kinda funny.... It said "that the deer we have in PA now are Alt deer, they don't go to the bathroom, (that is why there is no deer sign in the woods) they are so full of gas from not going that they just float ( that is why there is no deer tracks) and they just float right up in the trees (that is why we don't see em)

Sorry for rambling on but people in other states you don't know how lucky u have it.... U DON'T HAVE ALT DEER!!!!!!


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

It's very strange the attitude towards Dr. Gary Alt in Pa. 
When he first came on board, the hunters of Pa. absolutely hated the man, thought he was crazy, some put death threats up against him.

When his plan was introduced, no-one had any faith but within a few seasons, hunters started to see bigger bucks and more of them. This past season, I talked to many hunters who had an opportunity to shoot the biggest buck they have seen in Pa. woods in their lifetime.

Other areas saw less deer and think the Alt plan isn't helping at all.

What is the answer? Whomever steps up and makes policy in Pa. is going to be hated and will have death threats against him/her once again. There are hunters who agree with QDM and hunters who dont agree but until you have a degree in Biology and Wildlife Management, you must listen to the facts that are gathered in your state.

Pa. is a big state with alot of farmland and alot of thick woods but the whole state isn't the same. Some policies will work for you and some wont. I don't know of an across the board answer for the herd in the state but I do know that you have smart folks working on an answer and with the help of hunters, your state will be a great place to hunt once again.

Hang in there.

Jon


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## BTinAR (Jan 20, 2005)

Is that little pizza place in Indiana, PA that is downtown, still there? I can't remember the name of it but it was and still is to this day the best pizza I have ever had.


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

Dear Jon... I am no totaly thrashing Gary ALT. I do agree with you that every area is different. And there is nothing nobody can do to make everybody happy. There is alot of farmers in the area I live, and they do shoot alot of deer for crop damange. Why not let 12-13 year old kids come in and shoot them. Instead they are the ones that are suffering. THey are to young to remember the big herds of deer that once were here. They go out and sit in the woods and only see a hand few of deer. Now there will be some die hards that will do this. But if you were 12 years old, first time hunting, and you didn't even see a deer. Would you want to do that again? If something ain't done it is going to hurt the future of deer hunting in PA. 

Also I do agree with there being big buck, and big breeder bucks is what you want. But, with the 2 weeks of doe season, all them doe that are breed by that big buck don't survive (this is after the rut) I just don't believe that there should be 2 weeks of rifle season after the rut. You are in Delaware you don't know what it is like here. I live in western pa. Every where you go now there is "NO DOE HUNTING" signs. So if nobody is gonna do anything about it. Landowners are posting there land.

Also, the allocations for doe lincenses they put out that many just to make money. Maybe they should crack down on theese poachers. I know many guys who come in where I work bragging about shooting 3-4 legal bucks on the first Monday. More fines = more money right. Less Poachers=more deer. 

Jon these are just my opinions, and alot of them are factual because I have seen it with my own eyes. I love hunting, ethical hunting i should say. I have no time of day for anyone that hunts illeagal. I do hope something is done about it. One good thing about Gary ALt, we have more turkeys here than we ever had before, but where did the deer go? 


Jessica


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

Hang in there Jessica. You sound like a young hunter who has a good head on your shoulders, keep it up. Tell your friends your concerns and get them to join you at a Fish & Wildlife meeting and tell the officials what you think. Your ideas matter and the folks who make the decisions need to know what you see when you are out there.

You're right, I don't live in Pa. and I don't know what goes on there but I am quite involved in QDM and I have met Dr. Alt and have studied the health of the herd in Pa. and what the AR's have done since he brought them in. I'm a believer and I'm implementing it here in De. on my 9 farm lease with our club.

Hang in there, do whats right and voice your opinion.

Jon


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## PA Deer Chaser (Dec 20, 2003)

Hello! Johnstown, PA here.


You know, I grew up a big fan of Alt, seeing what he did with the bear program in the state. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he changed deer regulations, though I was dubious of his antlerless philosophy. I have no problem with antler restrictions at all.

I saw three deer during archery season, one little 3 pt. the first day, and two at about 300 yards away on the last. My dad is retired and has much more time to hunt. In 53 trips up the tree this fall (morn and eve), he saw a total of nine deer. There is no sign in the woods, no rubs, scrapes, droppings, or trails. There simply are very few deer in Cambria and Somerset counties. I spend a lot of time at local clubs, and everyone I talk to has had similar experiences. In the last two years, the amount of posted land has easily tripled. Why? Because farmers are hunters, too. They are trying to preserve a small portion of the deer herd for themselves and their families. Who can blame them?

I agree that each part of the state is different. There could very well be an overpopulation of deer in certain pockets. But, isn't that why they established WMUs? Shouldn't the Game Commission manage each area separately? I think what has happened is they caved to political pressure from the forestry industry. PA was in danger of losing its forestry certification. Elimination of the deer population is their solution. I wonder what they will think when the revenue from a million hunting licenses stops coming in to pay their wages.

I think the thing that frustrates me most is I have an 11 year old son who is just dying to go hunting with me next fall. How do I explain to him that he may sit in the woods for six or seven weeks and not see a single deer?


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## dahmer (Jan 16, 2005)

Since the point restrictions were implemented here in PA I have not seen a legal buck during archery or firearms deer season (I'm in one of the 4 points to a side counties). Every year in archery season I'm passing up 3 to 4 "illegal" bucks, but if the idea is to let them grow, where are they the next couple of years? The first day of our firearms season for 2004, I sat from dark to dark and saw a grand total of 2 doe! That's not the hunting I remember for the past 35 years of hunting. Alt took a job with the United States Treasury. They are going to make him the head of it. They said that anybody that could eliminate a deer herd that fast should have no trouble getting rid of the National Debt!


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*...*

jon....from your expertise should we all buy as many doe tags as we can and not fill em. Or should we just boycott the does tags at all???? Because like PA DEER HUNTER said, we are trying to preserve the deer herd ourselves. Nothing is going to be done about it this year. But I hope something is done about it before it is to late. Before kids don't get the apperication and love of the sport.

PS. you got a stand for me on your lease LOL

Jessica


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## LadyRobinHood (May 27, 2003)

*Alt Deer*

Alt Deer:
That was a good one hoytchick69. Thanks for sharing! Can't wait to tell my husband that one. He will love it!


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

Jessica, I always have a stand for a young hunter with ethics. If you ever want to come down for a few days, I can guarantee you good hunting.

Keep up the fight, your voice is the strongest weapon in this fight. 

As far as "expertise" goes, I'm far from an expert at anything. I think that educating yourself on issues you care about is important. Listening to the people who are fighting the fight tells me that a good percentage of Pa. hunters are seeing reduced numbers of deer. Other hunters are seeing bigger deer....I don't have a "coverall" answer for the problem in Pa. but I do know it will take some cooperation between the PGC and hunters.

If the problem is poaching, it's everyones responsibility to turn in poachers even if it is the farmer down the street who "has to" shoot illegal deer to feed his family. Poachers take game from all of you.

Jon


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## KIT-HAN-NE Flinger (Jan 5, 2005)

*frustrated in W. PA*

I live and hunt in armstrong county.I have seen the deer pop. quickly drop where I hunt.Then I hear of other areas that deer are supposedly taking over eating all the browse ruining farms and gardens kidnapping other small animals and stealing cars  Though timay not be this simple but we need micro not macro management of our herd.
I have a 14yr. old daughter who has been fortunate in getting 1 deer every year she has hunted.(better than me in the past 3 years).thankfully we hunt a funnel on private property.Though we did not see many she capitalized on her opportunities.
I actually enjoy 3-d much more now and if I take the time to go out hunting its for my daughter .When I started archery I couldnt get in the woods enough now I could care less if I ever get another deer.


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

Well I didnt read all the posts and Im not a PA resident, but I buy the non res. license whenever I can afford it. I went out there this year, hunted a little during the archery, saw alot of deer...even saw some SHOOTERS, but I couldnt get shots at any of the big ones...So all the little ones walked. That was up above Milford.

I also went out to Clearfield, County and hunted during the bear and then the deer season. Brought my bow and rifle (not in the woods at the same time..seems silly but thats illegal)...last day I saw a bear in the pouring rain, but it was sneaking up behind me, and got scared off when I turned, no good shot so....No bear. Rifle season was fun, I saw two un-identified deer first morning, and nothing after. My friend Frank, who I was with, saw a whole bunch of legal bucks, but none he considered shooters, so they all walked. 

Back east here, your not doing too bad with deer numbers, but out there in Clearfield, it seemed like people might be cheating the system. Using one doe tag to take several does. Because there were definitely not that many does. If there are gonna be people doing that, we will never know true harvest numbers. That could seriously hurt the future deer hunting in PA.

Just my two cents, but Id add mandatory check stations, possesion seals, and earn a buck in certain areas. Also bank-a-doe would help the multiseason hunters and especially archers to take a doe, and then a buck later on in a different season if necessary.

Have a good one guys and gals---Matt


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## R.C. (Feb 1, 2005)

Hoyt Chick69, If you want to see deer tracks and sign near you, go to the Saltsburg sportsmans club 3-D shoot. It is held there the first Sat. of every month. When there is snow on the ground it looks like a farm yard.


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## PA Deer Chaser (Dec 20, 2003)

My dad told me the same thing about Saltsburg. Thing is, the whole state was like that just a few years ago. I can understand there may have been a problem with crop damage and roadkills because of that, but they've gone overboard. In the same areas we used to see literally hundreds of deer in a field in a couple hours while spotting, we're lucky to see one or two in a week.


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## X arrows (Jan 13, 2005)

*PA hunting!*

I'm from Pittsburgh and I own property in Cameron county. I'v been hunting there for ten years and last season was the worst!!! I put many hours in my stand and saw more bears than deer. The winter of '03/'04 was one of the worst I've seen. The snow was quite deep and there were layres of ice throughout making it extremely difficult for the deer heard to find food. Any movement surely consumed incredible amounts of energy. The result--many dead deer. Add the Game Commission's stand on eradicating the White tail population and you get a ****ty season. Our way of life is being threatened by greed!

R.M. Pritchard


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*.....*

Matty-NJ....if you don't mind me asking what part of Clearfield County did u hunt?? That is where I hunt. As far as what we saw....they were does....and illeagal buck. Lots of spikes and 4's.....Didn't see a legal buck the whole rifle season....and out of the 14 of us with buck tags we got 1 buck....and we hunted hard. We ain't a group of them so called hunters who plop the ***** 20 yards off the road or that don't even get out of the car.

R.C didn't you read the part where I said each area is different. I believe that there probably is alot of deer in certain areas. What management unit is Saltsburg in??? I can tell you one thing...northern cambria and southern clearfield counties are hurting bad for deer. So until you hop in your car and see it for yourself you won't believe it....which I completely understand....most people are probably thinking that just because hunters go a year without getting a deer they start to b itch....but it ain't like that.... there is hardely any deer. 

I hunted all three days of bear season and seen 2 deer....hunted rifle 6 days and seen maybe 40 deer total....hunted 2nd season archery and seen 1 tail... just went and took $100 worth of deer pellets and salt blocks to the area we hunt....set up my trail camera and we will see what kind of results I get. 

If anyone in the area is interested....the president from the Unified Hunters of PA, will be at the Rembrandt Club in St. Benedict on wednesday feb 23rd at 7:00... to have a disscusion on the problems we are facing with the declining deer herd in pa. He has a few ways we can all rally together to try to save our hunting..... 

Matt, I agree with u that there should be check stations just like in bear season. But whose going to say these people are going to go to them?? THey are already doing somthing that is illeagal so they will contintue to do it illeagal. I myself think alot of the problem is poaching. Shooting them at night and when hunting go by the saying "if its brown its down" and with the lack of Game Commision they load up the illegal kills and away they go. Also the 2 weeks of Doe season, is like a massacare. People get so sick of waiting for a buck they just shoot a doe, or no meat. Another thing is , in muzzleloader season you can shoot a doe and use your buck tag....doesn't that mess up the allocations that they allow for doe tags. So if every hunter this year that didn't get a buck, shot a doe instead in muzzleloader. How many deer would be left? How many button bucks get killed during this 2 weeks of rifle and then 4 weeks of 2nd season muzzleloader? How many small bucks are killed by accident as does and let lay in the woods? This whole thing is just messed up. I am the type of person that is usually pretty quite on things, but I love hunting and hope to contintiue to do so. Something needs to be done......


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

hoytchick69 said:


> If anyone in the area is interested....the president from the Unified Hunters of PA, will be at the Rembrandt Club in St. Benedict on wednesday feb 23rd at 7:00... to have a disscusion on the problems we are facing with the declining deer herd in pa. He has a few ways we can all rally together to try to save our hunting.....


This is exactly what you need to do in order to solve the problem. Get as many hunters as you can to have a get together with someone who can help. great job!

Keep up the fight, it is worth it.

Jon


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

Hi Hoytchick,

I hunted mostly in Parker Dam State Forest (both bear and deer). Up above Tyler. During bear season I saw 2 does, a Spike, and a nice 8 point. Probably would have gone about 125-130 class. The bear I saw, was called in by a dying rabbit call in the pouring rain...Scared the BEJESUS out of me....All of a sudden I heard this LOUD snap, and rustling, and I turned and he had been sneaking up on me! Got to within about 40 yards, and then hit my scent, and took off. Thats what I had heard, was him starting to run. He would have gone about 200#. Even though, I play with bears alot back here in NJ...photographing etc. That was only the second time a bear came to my calling. The first was about a 550#er that came to fawn bawls. Didnt want to leave me alone either! Guess he figured he wanted a meaty meal, and that Id have to do.  

Well anyway...back on the topic.

My friend gets to hunt on Private Property....LOTS of it! He belongs to a club out there, though Im not sure I can tell you the name...hes weird like that. Come to think of it....I dont know if I know the name. HAHAHA
If I remember correctly, he saw 2 does and 5 bucks. All the bucks he saw were legal. 2 scraggly five points, a 7, a decent 8 and a twisted rack 8 or 9 pt. He could have shot any of them, but he has TONS of big bucks to his credit, so he just passes them. Unfortunately, we KNOW that two of those bucks didnt make it. One of the fives and the seven point were both taken during the second week. 

I mostly saw ORANGE during rifle season. I think thats why I hate it....I love my bows. I wish PA would make it to where Non.Residents could just buy an Archery License. I dont even like rifle hunting, but I paid something like $170 for all the stamps etc. So I might as well go. If they had JUST an Archery license for a little less.....Id go every year. 

As for the check stations I guess your right. I guess the ones who do illegal things, will always find ways to "beat the system". But I think with possesion seals, it might cut down on that. Here in NJ, you have to hold on to the metal possesion seal till all parts of the animal are gone. Meat, mount, hide, etc. AND they can come and search and ask for the seals for everything you have lying around. That might scare some people into doing whats right.

As far as population goes. PA had the right idea, with AR and doe harvests. But it didnt work in some areas. Whether it be an excessive harvest quota...or some "hunters" doing illegal stuff, is beyond me. But I think AR's are a great idea. THEY WORK! But, unfortunately some areas have been overharvested for does. In those areas, they should shut down the doe hunting. In the areas that are still "infested" with too many deer, use EARN-A-BUCK....works here. The only thing I would do differently is use some kinda BANK-A-DOE also. 
(example; I shoot a doe during Archery, but dont get a chance at THE buck I want, instead of having to shoot another doe for Winter bow or even rifle season, I could shoot an "earn a buck" with the doe I "banked".) Make sense? 

Im not sure if your familiar with NJ's regs. But they are actually pretty well thought out, and have been working well for as long as theyve been instated. There are a few things I dont like, but they do a pretty good job of managing our deer herd. If you'd like a copy of the NJ regs to read and look for ideas. PM me your address and I will send the Fish & Wildlife digest to you. I think some of "our" states ideas, would incorporate nicely into "your" states plans.

By the way, I know what you mean about the ROAD hunters....how rediculous. Everytime my friend and I would drive by them, we'd roll down the window and shout something like....."Ya aint gonna kill em sittin by yer truck!" Or "What'dya forget to walk in the woods?"......and "It aint easy!" that was my favorite...Its friendly, yet discouraging. I can see if your OLD or handicapped....but there were too many "healthy" people sitting on the sides of the road. Pretty silly...never see that here in NJ...but than again, youd get run over if you were any where NEAR a road! LOL

Have a good one----Matt


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## Wholaverj (Jan 22, 2005)

Hoytchick you seem to be hardcore........you must really like your hunting and dont like people messing with it....i respect that.


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*...*

I do love hunting...and hopefully someday it won't come to a end....I dont' mind not getting a deer I like just being in the woods....but not seeing them anywhere, kinda scares me.


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## Raxntrax (Jun 15, 2003)

*Lancaster, Pa Where I Grew Up!*

I Have Been Reading This Stuff About Gary Alt, His Intent Was Great And It Works With Some States But In The State Of Pa It Doesn't Cause They Have No Way Of Stopping All The Poaching. People That Do Kill Deer Don't Know How To Stop When They Fill Their Tags! This Only Pertains To The Ones That Do The Above Things, I Know That Their Are Alot That Do The Right Things. 

As Far As Big Deer I Have In The Last 10 Years Killed A P&y Buck Every Year On Public Ground. The Years Proir To That I Hunted Private Property And Killed Big Deer Too! The Deer Are Here The Problem Is When You Are Shot At By 1 Million Hunters A Year I Would Find The Deepest Dark Whole And Crawl Into Till Spring Like Most Of These Deer Do Right Now. 

On A Serious Note The Deer Are Here They Have Just So Much Pressure Unlike 20 Years Ago There Are Less Deer Per Mile Do To Pressure. If You Own Big Tracks Of Land Or Hunt On Private Land You Don't Here Much Complaint From Them Cause The Pressure Is Minamal. I Own 330 Acres In Pa Central Pa And 74 In Southern Pa, I Hate To Say It But Private Land Is Not Hurting At All. It's The Public Land.  

It's Not Alt's Fault, Somtimes The Hunters Need To Look In The Mirror And Take A Little Of That Blame. The Man Has Done Great Things For This State, Hello Bear Population Was Almost Non Existant And Now Look At It. Some People Are Affraid Of Change And Sometimes If You Don't Fight It And Join It It Will Work.

Just My Opinion.


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

Hope you guys get it all sorted out....Id hate to see the herd reduced to an unhuntable population.

From what Ive seen while out there, I dont think your in any danger yet. BUT if the state continues to over-harvest does in areas such as 2g...your gonna have problems. 

Pass the word to pass the does and small bucks and you guys will have great hunting. With the diversity in habitat, there is plenty of food and cover for the deer. Now its just time to fine tune the management plan.

Hey any of you guys or girls ever get to draw a tag for the elk? I enjoy sitting in areas where theres a good chance of seeing them.....makes me feel like Im elk hunting, even though I probably never will! I watched a small herd of seven or eight filter through the timber and bed down during bear season....they are AWESOME!

Oh and could somebody here do me a favor??? Ppppppleeaaassseee!
Next time you go to a game council meeting, if you could bring up the issue of a "Non-Resident Archery Only" license for say $70 or hopefully less, Id appreciate it greatly. Im not all that interested in going rifle hunting, but the only way for me to bowhunt in PA is to buy the Rifle license and add an archery stamp, than I have to add the bear stamp too....I dont mind supporting your state....Ive enjoyed quite a few seasons there, but it gets expensive. I would love to buy an archery license that is good for the archery seasons and also for hunting turkeys with a bow. I dont mind adding the bear stamp seperate and I like to hunt them with a bow anyway.

Well...I know that none of you probably care whether I get to come and hunt there...but Id really be grateful if someone could do that for me. Hunting in Pa is alot more relaxing than hunting in NJ.

Have a good one everybody!---Matt


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## bowfish65 (Mar 24, 2004)

York Co. PA dude here! No shortage of deer here! Yet! 

I take 3-4 every year.


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

Bowhuntn4, you take a P&Y deer EVERY YEAR in Pa? Honest? come on
Whewww, you are the man.

Why do you capitalize every first letter in your post? Very odd!

Jon


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## Raxntrax (Jun 15, 2003)

Yes, every year for the past ten or so years I have killed a p&y deer. I have no idea why it capitalizes each word, very weird!


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*...*

Bow huntin guy, let me first state that I said it is in certain areas. You might have deer out in lancaster, but around here there is not many deer at all. Next let me explain something to you, in archery season I hunter public land. My parents, uncles, aunts, cousins all belong to a hunting lease. 2 days before bear season me and my boyfriend both joined to be able to hunt with my famliy. Posted Ground. 30,000 acres of it....800 members. And belive me it was terriable. In archery this ground isn't hunted to hard, in rifle season it is hunted hard....but in 2nd season muzzleloader it is HUNTED VERY HARD....lots of guys just get memberships for muzzleloader. Like I said earlier does anybody have a answer to the question....THe game commision gives out a certain allocation of does in every Management UNit...but in 2nd season muzzleloader you can kill a doe and use you buck tag anywhere. Where do these #'s get added in at....do they estimate the # of does killed with buck tags OR WHAT. If you don't have legal bucks, people are going to shoot does for meat. We seen between 15 of us, 3 legal bucks the entire season. And we covered alot of ground. So bow hunting guy, what is stopping every muzzleloader hunter with a buck tag, going down to the area which you kill these pope&young buck on public land, and shooting all the does with there buck tags?????? I bet in 2 years you don't get a P&Y buck...No does=no bucks. 

Every area is different, we have no deer. So until you see it for yourself you are just wasting your breath trying to defend the pa game commision. And you said nomatter what people will poach. You know how many game warderns I have seen in 12 years of hunting....3 last year because in late july someone shot 3 does and let them lay in the field they were still kickin, it was disgusting. What fun is it to shoot an animal that isn't even being hunted....feeding in a field at night. It pisses me off. And I am very opinionated towards these people. I ain't shy. I might be a woman but I ain't stupid....I know what i see, and like I said if you are going to stick up for gary alt and all the DEER we don't have....then move over next year lancaster county here we come....


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## Raxntrax (Jun 15, 2003)

*She's Hot!*

DIDN'T MEAN TO UPSET ANYONE BUT I JUST PUT MY OPINION!  THAT'S WHY SOMEONE PUT THIS THREAD UP HERE ISN'T IT?  

ANYWAY, YOU'LL NEVER KNOW HOW TO FIX A HERD WHEN ALL YOUR NUMBERS ARE BASED ON WHAT? YOU DON'T HAVE A CHECK IN PROCESS FOR YOUR GAME SO NO ONE HAS NO IDEA ON HOW MANY DEER ARE WHERE. ALL YOU HAVE IS DEER PROCESSERS NUMBERS. 

IN 2 YEARS BY THE WAY I BET I SHOOT THE BEST DEER OF MY LIFE CAUSE I HAVE SEVERAL BUCKS ON THE PROPERTY I HAVE, THAT I PASSED UP THIS YEAR THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN THE HIGH 140'S NEXT YEAR IF THE GUN BARRELS STAY IN PEOPLES WINDOWS THIS SUMMER. I HAVE FOUND SEVERAL MATCHING SHEDS ON MY PROPERTY. AS FAR AS PUBLIC LAND YOU MAYBE RIGHT BUT THATS ONLY DUE TO THE LACK OF IT AND IF THE HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS KEEP GOING YOUR VERY RIGHT I WON'T SHOOT ONE IN 2 YEARS.

"HOT CHICK" YOUR PASSION FOR THE DEER HERD IN YOUR AREA IS GREAT! I AGREE I WOULD BE PISSED TOO IF THAT IS REALLY THE KIND OF SEASON YOU HAD THIS YEAR. WHY DO YOU THINK I LIVE IN VA NOW AND LET ME TELL YOU THESE PEOPLE DOWN HERE HAVE THEIR CRAP TOGETHER. DEER CHECK IN IS THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD. THIS HERD IS SO HEALTHY THAT YOU CAN HUNT DOES ALL THE WAY TILL MARCH IN SOME AREAS! 5 DEER A YEAR AND BUY BONUS TAGS 2 AT A TIME OVER THE COUNTER ALL YEAR LONG. WHEN THEY KILL TO MANY THEY CUT DOWN ON THE TAGS, NOT ENOUGH THEY GIVE YOU MORE BUT THE KEY IS THE STATE CHECK IN AND THE STIFF PUNISHMENT ON PEOPLE WHO DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES! (IT'S MY JOB AND I HOLD NO PUNCHES WITH SLOB HUNTERS!) IT WILL GET BETTER AND I DO AGREE WITH YOU THEY SCREWED UP AND NEED TO CHANGE THE DOE HARVEST. IT'LL BE BACK TO ONE DEER A YEAR BEFORE YOU KNOW IT AND THEN EVERYTHING WILL BE BACK TO NORMAL AND EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY!  

COME HUNT VA, WE GOT PLENTY!


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Hot Guy*

Well just cause you shoot a hoyt I will be nice to you... this is just a subject I could spend all night talking about...it pisses me off  I think check in stations would be good...but like I said earlier, if people aren't tagin them now whose to say they are even gonna turn em in???? THe game comminsion needs someone driving around at night looking for poachers.... or at least like how communties have the crime watch...they need a poacher watch LOL....It is just disgusting...and then they brag about it....this one guys I know killed 4 legal bucks on the opening morning, and was bragging about it....he said it was ok though because they were all taged.... no it isn't...there could of been a 12 year old right up the woods from him...B U L L S H I T!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jessica


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2005)

I live in SW PA and I have seen alot bigger bucks this year than I have ever seen before in the last 15 yrs. of my hunting. It is not only PA residents saying they have had a bad season. There are other states as well for xample I also hunt in WV and people there say they have not seen the deer they have seen in the past but WV does not have a QDM policy in effect shoot you can kill 5 bucks I believe in WV. I have seen more dead deer on the Interstate from the state line to Pittsburgh one day I counted over 190 deer lying along the interstate. Also how many dead bucks have you all seen laying in the woods this year that someone else shot and then realized that it was not a legal deer? Left it for the Coyotes or what ever else to get it so they don't have to pay a small penaltie. That my friends is what makes me sick. If you kill it and don't want it at least call in there are programs for the less fortunate in the state. They will take the meat and distrubute the way they feel is nescecarry. In my opinion I wish that Dr. Alt would have stayed around I feel that his plan was going to take the deer herd here in PA to a whole new level that we have only to imagine. Now that he is gone I hope that the State only finds someone that is tougher and can take the pressure make it a committee so it is not only one man to take a fall or to recieve threats on his life. That is all from them there TROPHY SPIKE Hunters. Kill a yearling and let the old deer just dye off what do you have left in a few years? NOTHING and that is just what Dr. ALT was trying to prevent but I guess some of the know it all people and frame of mind of others figure what the heck they will just bring em in from some where else. Just think about what it would be like to get up b4 daylight late October early November and then remember oh I can't hunt there are no deer to hunt any longer. Just think about it.


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## Raxntrax (Jun 15, 2003)

*Hot Woman!*

I FEEL THE SAME WAY YOU DO ON ALOT OF THINGS THAT YOU HAVE SAID AND THE STUFF YOU TALK ABOUT I'M TRYING DOWN HERE TO KEEP IN CHECK! POACHING! I LOVE CATCHING THOSE JERK-OFFS! THEY PAY DEARLY, NO, AND, IF'S,OR BUT'S!  I HAVE A LITTLE GIRL THAT WILL HAVE DEER TO KILL IF I GOT TO SPEND MY WHOLE LIFE CATCHING POACHERS! DON'T WORRY GIRL THINGS WILL GET BETTER IN PA JUST DO THE RIGHT THINGS AND YOU'LL BE SUCCESSFUL! IF YOUR NICE TO ME I HAVE 40 ACRES IN INDIANA COUNTY THAT HAS SOME NICE DEER PASSING THROUGH IN THE EARLY SEASON AND MAYBE I CAN HOOK YOU UP THIS COMING HUNTING SEASON WITH HUNTING IT!

HOT GUY!


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

hoytchick69 said:


> ... or at least like how communties have the crime watch...they need a poacher watch LOL....It is just disgusting...and then they brag about it....this one guys I know killed 4 legal bucks on the opening morning, and was bragging about it....he said it was ok though because they were all taged.... no it isn't...
> jessica



Jessica, I agree with you that this is criminal and needs to be stopped. If you let it happen, it will continue. You said thast you knew a guy who shot 4 legal bucks, the limit is 1 isn't it? If you don't report him, who will? There aren't enough enforcement officers to be everywhere at every second, it takes honest, law abiding people like you to make the system work. that guy you knew stole from you and everyone else. Poaching is stealing and poachers are breaking the law and robbing you and everyone else out of their hunting opportunities. That 12 yr old who didn't see any deer isn't being helped if you just allow people to poach and brag about it without any consequences.

There is a neighborhood watch program for poachers and there is a number you can call, it's called Pennsylvania Game Commission and I bet you can find their number in the phone book.

Don't just sit back and let others worry about the problem, take care of it yourself. You seem very bothered by the problem in your state, do something about it or sit back and watch it tank, your option.

Be strong.

Jon


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

Jon,

Your absolutely right! What a !&(^%#^%^ that guy is!

Jessica, 
like Jon said, you have to sort of do the policing.....Id look into a way of reporting these slobs.....I know NJ has a program called Operation Stop Game Thief....or something....if thats not the real name....its close. You can call and report people like that. You can do it ananaomi.....anonooomou,......anonam...without telling them who you are.

If your tip helps them catch the @!*#[email protected](#^%(& you receive a small cash reward.

I dont have my PA hunting digest with me right now...but if you look through it, Im sure PA has a similar program. If I can find mine....I'll look too.

Oh and I'll answer your pm at my leisure.  hahahaha....dont mind me....Im a smart-a--!

Have a good one---Matt


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## Wholaverj (Jan 22, 2005)

ol hoytchick69 for a woman.....knows what she is talking about.  

My opionion is when it comes to the PGC, "JUST BEND OVER AND SMILE" cause it isnt gonna make a diffrence what the people want its HOW THE PGC IS GOING TO GET THE MONEY THAT MATTERS. What the PGC should do is cut the amount of doe tags by half and increase the licenses by double. This will give them the money they need while cutting the doe tags in half but do you think they will do it......you would like to think. 

What I am going to do is simple, I am going to kill deer like I always do untill we get someone in the PGC with half a mind to get the blood thirsty ******s out of their because what is the use of burning money in the doe tags and not buying them only lets the next person down the line buy them. None the less the Poaching will never stop. Anyways HOYTCHICK69 be sure to bring this up during the meeting when you guys have it..this here.. The decline in doe population that the PGC wants wont ever work to the full extent that they want it to due to all the posted land. Where the land is posted will always have deer in it due to the sanctuary effect it has when hunting pressure rises. The reduction will destroy the public land AKA STATEGAME LANDS and hunting their will always suck and will be destroyed in the future even though i dont care about the SGL. 

anyways the whole deer check station would be ******ed. hunters wont take the time to mail in a harvest report card let alone take a deer to a check station.

JUST MY OPIONION


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*...*

Deer Johnny ....first of all , in a post above i wrote that we did turn in 2 guys who shot deer with a spotlight and let them lay the deer were still kicking... about this guy that shot 4 legal buck.... all of them were taged by members of his hunting party...how u gonna prove that they weren't...they came to him he shot all of them.... 
To the person from sw pa....like I have said so many times....this is certain areas....I am talking about probably a 30 mile radius here in northern cambria, western indiana, southern jefferson , and southern clearfield counties...I know there is alot of deer down in the pittsburgh area....my cousin lives in murrysville and say they are way over populated....but around areas like that ...how can you hunt....very little.... I think our management unit 2E and 4D need something done...I ain't speaking for the whole state...just the area i have SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES...as far as dead deer we came across 4 mistake kills... and I agree with you about letting them lay, that is a total waste. 
IF anyone is interested go to www.padeerdefense.org and sign the petition being sent to Governor Rendell.... 

Hey wholaver....thanks....your pretty smart yourself...for a youngin LOL I would go along with what you said....whatever we do we need to stick together...some people can't be doing this, some people can't be doing that...what part of indiana county you from....maybe me and you will go hunting on bowhunters (aka hot guys) land this fall


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

Jessica, I didn't interpret the post above that you turned the poaches in and I'm sorry about that. Good job if you did turn them in, hope they received their due punishment.

I rarely see the passion you are showing on here from hunters, it's a great thing. I also see others sitting back and letting someone else do the work for them, thats not going to help. If someone asks you to bring a concern to the PGC, that makes me believe that they are too lazy to do it themselves, I call BS. You can't be the voice of everyone, urge them to join you and tell their story because numbers are going to get the attention of the officials and thats how things get done. If they don't care enough to come out and let the PGC know what the problems are then they aren't fighting hard enough for hunters.

If things don't work out next year and the deer numbers are down, you should seriously consider coming one state south and check out our deer herd. I'll put you on some deer!

You rock girl!  

Jon


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## Raxntrax (Jun 15, 2003)

*Got Plenty!*

You Youngin's Can Hunt Anytime You Want! We Need More People In Pa Like You Guys! Look Forward To Next Year!

Hot Guy


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

jonnybow said:


> I rarely see the passion you are showing on here from hunters, it's a great thing. I also see others sitting back and letting someone else do the work for them, thats not going to help. If someone asks you to bring a concern to the PGC, that makes me believe that they are too lazy to do it themselves, I call BS. You can't be the voice of everyone, urge them to join you and tell their story because numbers are going to get the attention of the officials and thats how things get done. If they don't care enough to come out and let the PGC know what the problems are then they aren't fighting hard enough for hunters.
> Jon



Jon,

Just wondering if the above statement was to be directed at me for asking about the PA Non-resident archery license?

I live in NJ, and Im active in NJ's hunting and fishing agenda. Im lucky enough to hunt PA, but I dont have the time to attend council meetings in PA. I just figured it would be easier for someone who already goes to the meetings to bring up my point. Hell Ill even type up a statement if they want....I just dont have the time or gas money to drive to a meeting for another state. If I did, Id be going to NH, NY, and PA all the time to sit down at meetings. If this was directed at me I dont appreciate it. 

If it wasnt directed at me, and your speaking of residents, than I completely agree with you, anyone IN the state, should help do their part. 

As for turning in Poachers, its not for us to decide whether the infractions can be proven or not. Its just our obligation to report the violations. Much like Police Officers dont always decide who goes to jail. Just catch the wrong do'ers....and than its out of an officers hands after that, and on to the Judge.

Take care and have a good one---Matt


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

Honestly Matt, I think it was directed at your statement but I guess I didn't look to see who typed it and where they were from. Don't let things like that offend you, life is far too short.

Jon


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

Jon, 
It wont ruin my day. Far too many other things to worry about, than someone labeling me something Im not, on an archery forum. Just thought Id bring it to your attention. Now if you made fun of my choice in bow companies, it would be a different story.  People get a little to silly about that dont they?

I agree with most of your points so far, so no hard feelings.

Have a good one---Matt


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*..*

So what kind of bow do u shoot matty???? Gotta go to work but I just had to ask


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

Same brand as the one in your name...

Been shootin Hoyts since '92. Before that, it was Stemmler and Bear bows for me. Ive also shot XI and Reflex.....but you didnt ask for the history of my life so.....

By the way Jon, you'd be proud of me. My lazy, unconcerned a-- wrote up a letter regarding the Non-Resident Archery License, and snail-mailed it to the PGC.  I believe they used to have an Archery Only Non Res license...but I cant remember. Im hoping they will consider my suggestion, as it would allow me to get out there and hunt the years I cant afford the all inclusive license. If this happens to get brought up on April 25-26's meeting at the Harrisburg headquarters please let me know, and please support it. If it doesnt, I would appreciate if someone could mention it. Thanks.

Have a good one---Matt



How come my new signature doesnt show up? Oh well....who cares.


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## jonnybow (Aug 27, 2002)

Matt, don't misquote me. I never called you lazy and unconcerned. I thought you weren't going to take it personally?  

I am proud of what you did though, that shows that you do care about what happens in a state you hunt, good job Matt.

Good luck to all of you Pennsylvanians in the management of your deer, it will be a tough road ahead.

go Pats!

Jon


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## Matty-NJ (Dec 5, 2003)

Jon,

I was just being a wise guy..pokin a lil fun yer way...hence the wink...I wasn't winking at you cause I think your good looking.

Take care and have a good one---Matt


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## R.C. (Feb 1, 2005)

Matty-NJ, we do ahve a program like that. Its called turn in a poacher under the S.P.O.R.T program.

Hoytchick69, I know what you are talking about the deer population being different from one place to another. I just figured you were near Indiana county and was trying to give you an idea of a place to look for a lot of deer. My wife and I hunt all over the state including allegheny county in residential areas. according to the new safty zone laws, us archers can get within 50 yards of houses. We do see a lot of deer down here. We harvest our share (never more!) every year. The road I work on we see 50 deer every day at lunch time. Like I said, we hunt all over the state. Can you give me the numbers of some of the game lands in your area? I am interested in scouting them and seeing what you are seeing. Scouting is one of my favorite pastimes and I am interested in seeing if i should be worrying like you are saying. Maybe you are right and our deer will begin to thin out also. I know we have a problem with poaching to. People that shoot deer and let them lay just to kill something I feel should be shot! I don't like people that fill other peoples tags either. I always think that the extra buck that someone shot for there buddy, could have been the buck that the little kid in his first year of hunting was waiting for on the other side of the hill. I hope you didn't take my first post the wrong way. We are avid outdooors people and are only trying to help out.


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## hoytchick69 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Deer Meeting*

Just got back from the deer ralley......well we made the top story on the 11 o'clock news. And supossed to be front page in tomorrow's paper. If anyone in pa, or hunts in pa could go to www.padeerdefense.org and send in the petition it would be a step in the right direction. 

thanks
Jessica


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