# Greatest archer ever - who was it?



## nockpoint (Dec 16, 2007)

Justin Huish
Only person to win both (team & ind) gold's at one Olympic games.


----------



## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

How can anyone argue against Howard Hill?


----------



## pTac (Jun 25, 2005)

archeryis4girlz (A.K.A. Laura), who else????? :wink:


----------



## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Apollo.

Nuff Said.


----------



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

My vote goes to Howrd Hill also if you take into consideration ALL aspects of shooting...such as tournament competition, aerial targets, trick shooting, moving targets and hunting.

Ray


----------



## Jason22 (Aug 16, 2008)

Either Robin Hood or Legolas.


----------



## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Jason22 said:


> Either Robin Hood or Legolas.


LOL...if I had to choose between those 2...I would have to pick Legolas 

Ray


----------



## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

nockpoint said:


> Justin Huish
> Only person to win both (team & ind) gold's at one Olympic games.


He may be the only man to do that but I'm pretty sure that Korean women have done that at least a couple of times. And, don't forget that archery returned to the olympics in 1972 but the team round didn't make it's debut until, I believe, 1988..Pace's last Olympic games.

Plus, I think the lifetime ban for selling drugs would preclude Mr. Huish from consideration as the greatest of all time.


----------



## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

If measured by the impact left on others then you have to go with Cupid.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

6X60 said:


> Plus, I think the lifetime ban for selling drugs would preclude Mr. Huish from consideration as the greatest of all time.


I know nothing about Mr. Huish, but if we are talking about **archery skills** then factors not pertaining to archery ability are irrelevant. Howard Hill's wide range of achievements would qualify him as a top candidate for greatest archer of all time no matter what other factors might have been present. Really depends on what you mean by "great," I suppose.


----------



## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

Warbow said:


> I know nothing about Mr. Huish, but if we are talking about **archery skills** then factors not pertaining to archery ability are irrelevant. Howard Hill's wide range of achievements would qualify him as a top candidate for greatest archer of all time no matter what other factors might have been present. Really depends on what you mean by "great," I suppose.


Defining "great" would be the key.

However, a lifetime ban by the sports sanctioning body, thereby cutting short a career while at one's peak, would be more than relevant.

I totally agree with Howard Hill being one of the all time greats. Given the section where this is posted and the OP's pick of Darrel Pace he might not be the best in this context. Again, we're back to how you define "great."

Mr. Hill was said to have one 196 straight field archery tournaments at one point...I'm assuming these were NFAA tournaments...but his resume lists only one state championship and no national championships.

Certainly he was one of the all time greats in terms of promotion of the sport of archery and bowhunting.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

6X60 said:


> Defining "great" would be the key.
> 
> However, a lifetime ban by the sports sanctioning body, thereby cutting short a career while at one's peak, would be more than relevant.


Only relevant to morals, not archery ability. If by "great archer" you mean upstanding citizen with good standing in sanctioned competition who also has the world's greatest archery ability, then, yes, you could omit someone based on a ban by a sports sanctioning body. But if you mean "great archer" based on _archery ability_ then the decision of a sanctioning body is totally irrelevant. Think about it, are you saying that to qualify as the "greatest archer" you have to be sanctioned FITA shooter? Surely not.


----------



## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Warbow said:


> I know nothing about Mr. Huish, but if we are talking about **archery skills** then factors not pertaining to archery ability are irrelevant. Howard Hill's wide range of achievements would qualify him as a top candidate for greatest archer of all time no matter what other factors might have been present. Really depends on what you mean by "great," I suppose.


If that's the direction you intend to go, then Fred Bear would take top honor.

This is the FITA page, so I don't think that would fly.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 23, 2008)

spangler said:


> Apollo.
> 
> Nuff Said.


I think Artemis would disagree with you


----------



## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I think Artemis would disagree with you


She could disagree, but she only picked up archery BECAUSE of her brother Apollo and asked for one of her 6 wishes to be a silver bow like his.

Clearly he is the best.

She would most likely be the best female archer however.



-Andrew


----------



## Rick Webb (Apr 13, 2008)

Apecs73 said:


> Hello all together,
> 
> who do you think was the greatest archer ever and why?
> 
> ...



On the compound side, I would say Dr. Randy Ulmer. World Champion Fita,3D,and also world class hunter.Total package.Enough said.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Darrell Pace-but for a deflected arrow in 1983, he would have been a three time world champion on top of being the only two time individual gold medalist. He also was world field champion and many times Vegas recurve champion back before there was a world indoor championship. With the OR system, a degree of luck has replaced total skill in determining world champions and Olympic winners so comparisons are going to be tough. As to Hill, he was arguably not even the best archer in the country-Russ Hoogerhyde was winning the biggest events back then-the US Target Nationals-which attracted the best archers. 

Of people currently competing-I would rate Michele Frangilli as the best all around archer-he has won world titles in field, indoor, and target and is a world class compound archer as well. 

As to having the most impact on the sport-then I would pick Fred Bear. He did more to popularize archery than almost anyone.


----------



## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

Recurve
Darrel Pace
Rick McKinney
Simon Fairweather (World and Olympic Champion in 2 different formats)
Sung-Hyun Park 1405 and has won just about everything
Michele Frangilli as said above, won just about everything. 

Compound
Clint Freeman
Terry Ragsdale
Morgan Lundin
Dave Cousins
Katie Smith


----------



## Borja1300 (Oct 12, 2007)

Men:
For me Darrel Pace has been the greatest.
Rick McKinney had been the greatest IF Pace wasn't existed.
Michelle Frangilli of course is in the group of the three bests.

In Women:
Kim Soo Nyung
Park Sung-Hyun
Natalia Valeeva

Compound Men:
Dave Cousins
Clint Freeman
Dee Wilde

Compound Women:
Mary Zorn
and if I had to choose another two...
Jamie Van Natta 
Gladys Willem (spelling?)


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Folks -

Ann Weber-Hoyt.

Check the records.

Viper1 out.


----------



## Landed in AZ (May 11, 2008)

Not to hijack the thread but wasn't Huish just banned for two years. He tried to make a come back at one point so that is why I am thinking it was not a life time ban. If he did get a life time ban that is the strictest ban in sports I have ever heard of for selling some weed.


----------



## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

Landed in AZ said:


> Not to hijack the thread but wasn't Huish just banned for two years. He tried to make a come back at one point so that is why I am thinking it was not a life time ban. If he did get a life time ban that is the strictest ban in sports I have ever heard of for selling some weed.


You may be right, but I was told that he was banned for life and then after serving his sentence and some passage of time, he applied for and and was reinstated.

From canoe.ca:

"Huish is accused of selling an undisclosed amount of marijuana to a confidential informant. Simi Valley police who searched his home Feb. 15 said they found 4.5 ounces of marijuana, 2.3 grams of hashish oil, a ledger and $23,000 in his bedroom closet."

I couldn't find any specifics about the ban.


----------



## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

Landed in AZ said:


> Not to hijack the thread but wasn't Huish just banned for two years. He tried to make a come back at one point so that is why I am thinking it was not a life time ban. If he did get a life time ban that is the strictest ban in sports I have ever heard of for selling some weed.


Huish's ban began as lifetime and then was reduced upon appeal.

As for the greatest archer of all time, I'd pick Darrell Pace...who likely would have been a three time Olympic Gold Medalist if the US hadn't boycotted the 1980 Olympics.

In the compound realm, an argument could be made for Dave Cousins...and if Chance picks up more NAA and outdoor events he could make a run for greatness.

Women...Ann Hoyt without doubt.


----------



## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

among modern archers(olympic round era) it has to be park sung hyun...she has won just about every recurve championship against the strongest fields....and i am sure her world record fita score of 1405 will be there for a long long long time.....


----------



## zal (May 1, 2007)

Kim Soo Nyung.

Of the current ones, I'd say Park SH, Im DH (still young enough to win absolutely everything), and Frangilli.


----------



## fluca1978 (Jan 26, 2009)

Considering "best" not only as top rankings but also as who gave something special to this sport, my top recurve list is:

Rick McKinney
Darrel Pace
Michele Frangilli
Andrea Parenti
Giancarlo Ferrari

and I add to the reserve:

Alessandro Rivolta (third 1350)
Sante Spigarelli (recordman)
Vladimir Esheev
Jay Barrs

Huish as been like a lightening, and did not leave a lot to this sport (in my opinion).

Ok, the above is a too long list to pick the best one.....


----------



## Apecs73 (Jan 19, 2009)

nockpoint said:


> Justin Huish
> Only person to win both (team & ind) gold's at one Olympic games.


As far as I know was Huish not the only one to win both and also not the first. I think that was Kim Soo Nyung of Korea at the olympic games 1988 in Seoul.

Correct...?


----------



## Borja1300 (Oct 12, 2007)

And Cho Jeong Yoon in Barcelona 92 and Kim Kyun Wook in Atlanta 96 and Yu Min Yin in Sydney 2000 and Park Hyun Sung in Athens 2004.

Justin Huish was the only man (also was the only time USA won by teams)


----------



## lightbeer (Jan 1, 2009)

Ishi was the last surviving member of the Yahi people in north California 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqRve5_UIdk&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kCJTd2RZ30&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIC5zCV22aY


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

I think this thread was already well developed in the past, already.

Anyhow, my choice was, remains and will be 
Darrel Pace & Kim So Nyung

They have not only been so superior in their result to other competing archers of the same period of time, but scoring at a level that should make them close to the top also nowdays. 

Among active archers, I have to go with JimC comment: Olympic round has introduced an amount of luck in the comepttions that is now, with the 12 arorws format, really predominant. For instance, with all the respect for Hristov that is an excellent archer, he has got a world title in Poland that unfortunately does not add to him any absolute value in the archery world. 
Simply, today anyone (a top level) can win a world indoor (and outdoor too) champ, because of the formula. 
So, archers in the world only respect scores, not world titles anymore, as they are no more related to scores, and I'm among them.
Therefore Park Sung Hyun and Park Kyung Mo, now an happy married couple, have my vote.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> How can anyone argue against Howard Hill?


Engtee,

I'm not sure how many folks here even know about Howard Hill.

But yea, he gets my vote too.

No Fita recurver ever had to shoot a cigarette out of a woman's mouth in front of a live audience, or split an arrow (wood, mind you) on camera.

These are not "trick" shots. They are demanding shots and in some cases life or death. Like shooting the man riding horseback at 70 yards and having to hit the board in the back of his shirt...

Let's see anyone else do that.

John.


----------



## briwayjones (Jan 7, 2009)

Jason22 said:


> Either Robin Hood or Legolas.


Robin Hood was awesome but Legolas is in a class all his own.


----------



## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

John,
People have mentioned Robin Hood-Howard Hill did all the shooting for Errol Flynn as "Robin Hood". Granted, he was not shooting FITA, but I'd like to see how any of the top FITA shooters would do, with their sighted bows (compared to the non-sighted longbow) trying some of the things that Howard Hill routinely did. I know you are a traditional shooter, at heart, and would agree with me.


----------



## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

ima have to go with the youngest woman to ever make the US team and set acouple records. dineise parker.


----------



## introverted (Jan 2, 2009)

Jason22 said:


> Either Robin Hood or Legolas.


word, robin hood

easy

LOL


----------



## Toxophilis (Mar 18, 2009)

William Tell....There is more to the story than everyone knows.


----------



## barking mad (Oct 17, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I'm not sure how many folks here even know about Howard Hill.


Is he related to Benny Hill or Hank Hill?

I second Viper's vote for Ann Weber-Hoyt.

-bm.


----------



## LBmaN (Mar 30, 2008)

Howard Hill was the best in my opinion.


----------



## Jurasic Archer (May 23, 2002)

There are so many that come to mind it is hard to pinpoint. Also, there are categories or division/styles that come into play. Target, field, 3d, freestyle, limited, barebow etc. So many were amazing at what they do but is hard to make that cross over into other divisions. I can't think of one that was great at all of it, just what they chose or preffered to compete in. I can't pick just one but like a whole bunch.

Olympic recurve Male
US:
John Williams
Darrell Pace
Richard Johnson
Ed Eliason
Jay Barrs
Rick McKinney

Intl:
Magnus Petterson
Michelle Frangilli
Andrea Parenti
Zirempilov
Eestchev
Zabrodsky
Fairweather
Poiklanen
Jari Lipponen
Fin that won the World Championships and an Olympic medal, name escapes me. 
(Forgive my spellings, you know who I'm talking about)
Martinus Grov
Oh Kyo Moon
Jang Yong Ho
Numerous other Koreans come to mind...
Spigarelli 
Ferrari

Female:

Ann Webber Hoyt is the queen of all archery period
A very long list of beautiful and tallented Korean ladies. My favorite is the 96 gold medal winner but so many simply amaze me. 
Natalia Valeeva continues to be amazing.
He Ying
Dennise Parker
Luanne Ryan (she was remarkably fun to shoot and compete with, you had to be on just to stay on the line with her).
Jennifer Nichols
Numerous Russian ladies
Numerous Ukrainian ladies
Carole Ferriou

Barebow:

A bunch of Swedes (how the heck do they do it?)
A slovenian who's name escapes me
Mark Appelgate
Dennis Cline
The Texan that dominated the US in the 70's and 80's and shot for Bear.

Compound:
This list is just too huge, but both Terry and Michelle Ragsdale will always be my heros.
Mary Zorn Hamm
Jamie VanNatta
Dave Cousins
Chance (I know I will screw it up so will leave it at that)
The entire Wilde family (any one of them can ruin your day!)
Jessie Broadwater
Clint Freeman
Morgan Lundin
Morton Boe
Chris White
Tim Gillingham
This list just goes on forever. When you throw in 3d, this list just gets enoromous. 

General and entertaining catergories,
Dale Marcy and Howard Hill were both at the top of the list.

Guess I wasn't very specific, sorry:sad:


----------



## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Toxophilis said:


> William Tell....There is more to the story than everyone knows.


Wasn't he an X-bow shooter?


----------



## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

William Tell was a crossbowman. I try to be broad-minded, but... I'll stick to recurve. 

I'd go with Darrell Pace: I hear the first step for the Koreans when they set up their steamroller team was to study Darrell Pace tapes. Plus, I met him in1974.

I'm in awe of Ed Eliason, though he poached into my age category and dropped me down a place in the Indoor Nationals. I think he's over 70 and kicked in 50+, as well as qualifying for the first cut for the Olympic team last year after being on the 1972 team. You do the math. I've only heard good things about how helpful he is to other shooters (he coached Denis Parker for a while, I believe.) His form is all his own - don't try this at home.

Howard Hill deserves consideration for other reasons - different style.

Among women, Park Sung Hyun... and a bunch of other Korean women.


----------



## JeffS (Sep 15, 2003)

*Best Evers*

Recurve Men: Darrel Pace
Recurve Women: Kim Soo Nyung
Compound Men: Dave Cousins
Compound Women: Mary Zorn


----------



## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

Lida Scott Howell from US - three Olympic Golds (1904), 17 National Target Championships and when she won, she usually won by over 100-200 points. A very dominating woman and she was from the Cincinnati area which makes Darrell only the 2nd best archer out of the Cincinnati area!  There were no world championships back then. She would have easily won them....

Darrell Pace is without a doubt the best ever when it came to winning, setting world records and being internationally competitive for nearly 20 years. If I did not take away some of the world titles he would have won more and he was definitely far better than I. I just kept him honest! 

Howard Hill was one of the best archers as well. He quit competing because he got tired of defending his high scores which were so high that many did not believe him, thus he just quit and did the hunting, trick shooting and of course was the guy who shot those arrows in the Robin Hood and western films, etc. An amazing archer.

I think it is too soon to say who is the greatest archer in the compound world since it is relatively young.

As for Barebow... I believe that Matts Anderson won several World FITA Field Titles and he usually won big time. Not too familiar with the women barebow archers. Lou Shine comes to mind as to winning several Barebow NFAA titles.

Just a couple of comments on other comments made....JimC...Darrell had 12 points on me going into 50 meters...THAT was why he lost, not because of the glance out. He gave way too many points at that distance on the last day. And, yes he would have won (probably) the 1980 Olympics if our amaturish president (you know...like the one we have now) would not have made us boycott those Olympics. 

Limbwalker...Pace shot an apple out of a guys hand on the Jackie Gleason show and was reprimanded by the Association. He also shot a robin hood on John Davidson's show called That's Incredible. Could he have shot a cigarette out of someone's mouth? Yes...


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Lyda Howell's husband was a distant relative of mine Rick. She retired to nurse him when he was stricken with what I believe was TB. Her scores at the turn of the century remained competitive for several decades. I think we all agree that the Peanut idiot sucked as a president


----------



## 3arrows (Mar 4, 2008)

Mr. McKinney,
I have your book. I just had to say that!

Glad you mentioned Pace's shot on That's Incredible. I had nearly forgotten about watching that on television. I was just a little boy. Never knew until I started in archery that he was from my neck of the woods.

I don't know how many times I probably shot next to him at Relo Sporting Goods, along with JimC, and didn't even know it until 15-18 years later. Small world huh? Since then, I've been to JimC place to shoot last fall. Real hospitality at JimC's place too. Been meaning to get back there but free time like that has been hard to find lately with this economy.

For what it's worth, and taking nothing away from the outstanding compound shooters out there, I personally don't like to group recurve shooters with compound shooters. What these people do with recurves puts them at the top IMO...then there's Howard Hill...gotta love the individuality that archery let's us all develope. I love every aspect of archery.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Come on back we are shooting saturday at 2 Next week we are at Cleveland (march 28-29th for state) but after that at home all of April


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jim C said:


> I think we all agree that the Peanut idiot sucked as a president


There is a forum for that type discussion, the Political, Military and Religious Thread in the Campfire. It isn't really appropriate for the FITA section, where we may or may not "all agree" on political issues.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Warbow said:


> There is a forum for that type discussion, the Political, Military and Religious Thread in the Campfire. It isn't really appropriate for the FITA section, where we may or may not "all agree" on political issues.


I cannot see anyone agreeing with the idiotic boycott of the olympic games. I think that is not controversial at all.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jim C said:


> I cannot see anyone agreeing with the idiotic boycott of the olympic games. I think that is not controversial at all.


It is for such presumptions that the PRMT forum was created.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Warbow said:


> It is for such presumptions that the PRMT forum was created.


It is fair to note that the clown cheated Darrell out of a likely 1980 gold medal


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jim C said:


> It is fair to note that the clown cheated Darrell out of a likely 1980 gold medal


Again, a claim well suited for the PRMT forum.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Warbow said:


> Again, a claim well suited for the PRMT forum.


are you a jimmy carter apologist or a wannabee nanny?


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Jim C said:


> are you a jimmy carter apologist or a wannabee nanny?


Jim, in this thread I saw negative comments about Carter and an attempt to make similar aspersions on Obama. The PRMT thread is an excellent place to take political comments.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Warbow said:


> Jim, in this thread I saw negative comments about Carter and an attempt to make similar aspersions on Obama. The PRMT thread is an excellent place to take political comments.


when it comes to the olympics, the only possible comments about carter are negative


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jim,

I honestly don't believe Warbow can be satisfied with any answer. He's just like that... There's one in every crowd...

Rick, I don't doubt that Darrell could have done the cigarette out of the mouth shot, but without sights or a clicker, and with a wood arrow !?! 

And now that you mention it, I do remember watching someone split an arrow on "That's Incredible." Didn't remember it being Darrell, but at that time I wouldn't have known who he was anyway. I also saw a guy catch an arrow before it hit the target, which immediately led to my brother James and I trying it (successfully I may add) on our own. Of course, the arrows we caught were only shot from a 20# fiberglass Red Bear bow and they weren't traveling all that fast. Oh, if mom had caught us doing that the old red bow would have gone away for a while! ha, ha.

John.


----------



## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

lightbeer said:


> Ishi was the last surviving member of the Yahi people in north California
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqRve5_UIdk&NR=1
> 
> ...


http://www.usaarcheryrecords.org/History/scrapbook1912/index.html has some photos and pages of notes by Pope, on Ishi.


----------



## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> If measured by the impact left on others then you have to go with Cupid.


That little winged prat gets my vote too. :shade:


----------



## mainline (Aug 26, 2008)

Rick and Darrell are by far the best of all time. I can't seem to pick one between them. I have shot with both of them and have a huge amount of respect for what they have accomplished. But I tend to lean towards Rick only for the fact of longivity. On that note, if Ed had won a few Worlds and some Olympic hardware he would have to be mentioned also. I remember Ed ruling the Nationals for a few years straight in his fifties! 

As far as todays archers Butch has been amazing both with a wheeled bow and with a recurve. But Vic will soon be in the same sentence as Rick and Darrell. He has won multiple Jr. World titles, National, Sr. World, Pan Am, and has Olympic hardware as well.


----------



## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

Wonder whether the title is to be taken word for word because it says 'Greatest archer ever - who *was* it?'

Hmmmm .... Now who was good and no longer with us today?


----------



## SEPENS M. PIPER (Jul 14, 2008)

Man, this is an impossible question to answer.

But

GO 

HUISH


----------



## Landed in AZ (May 11, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Engtee,
> 
> I'm not sure how many folks here even know about Howard Hill.
> 
> ...


John, Howard Hill gets my vote too, but I also like watching Byron Ferguson videos. He also credits Howard Hill as being the best archer. But Byron shoots an aspirin out of the air. That is pretty amazing.


----------



## hockeyref (Jun 2, 2006)

Landed in AZ said:


> John, Howard Hill gets my vote too, but I also like watching Byron Ferguson videos. He also credits Howard Hill as being the best archer. But Byron shoots an aspirin out of the air. That is pretty amazing.


Did any of you ever see the Rev. Stacey Grosscup put on an exibition? he passed a year or so ago and I believe he shot aspirins before Byron... No. I'm not putting him up for greatest ever, but he was pretty darn good in his niche....


----------



## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

Jane Johnson tipped me off to this story:
Check out http://www.newsok.com/outdoors-a-world-class-bulls-eye/article/3353312 for Ed Godfrey's great article about Joe and Helen Thornton.


----------



## 3arrows (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks for the invitation Jim. I will join you again soon hopefully. I spent the day working an event for our club, which turned out to be a great day.


----------



## inkystu (Mar 4, 2009)

Just to put my 2c in;

Men's recurve. Darrell Pace (very closely followed by Rick!)
Ladies Recurve. Sung-Hyun Park, (1405 FITA)


There are a host of other archers I believe to be excellent archers who have also given to the sport. Here are just a few.

Kyosti Lassonnen (sp?)
Jay Barrs
Dave Howell (arrowhead uk. been shooting 50 years this year known as Old Bloke here!)
Sebasitan Flute
Simon Fairweather

....and many more


----------



## Rob Lightner (Oct 15, 2013)

I know this thread was FOREVER AGO...LOL!!!...but I happened to catch a video on Youtube of Byron Furguson and was wondering if he may have known the Rev. Dr. Stacey Grosscup...so I Googled both of their names, and this was at the top of the list. I have to say, I'm not sure when Byron Furguson started shooting aspirin out of the air, but I remember first seeing the Rev. Dr. Stacey Grosscup do it when I was about 4 years old...so that would be 1979. I watched him on and off through the years, and was always amazed by his talent for what he called "instinctive shooting," which I ultimately adopted for close range handgun practice with great success...but I was even more impressed by the fact that he would use a compound bow with broadheads to shoot aspirin out of the air. It was amazing to see live, and to watch his assistant pick up split pieces of aspirin when it wasn't pulverized upon impact...and when it was, which was most of the time, you'd see the cloud of white powder at the point of impact. He was amazing!!! It would be crazy to think that Stacey and Byron wouldn't know each other in the world of archery, given that they were both so incredibly talented.


hockeyref said:


> Did any of you ever see the Rev. Stacey Grosscup put on an exibition? he passed a year or so ago and I believe he shot aspirins before Byron... No. I'm not putting him up for greatest ever, but he was pretty darn good in his niche....


----------



## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Frank Addington has taken off where Rev.Grosscup left off with the exception of all behind the back aspirin shots. He mentioned something about shooting the wings off of a fly a year ago during one of his exhibitions.

Back in the eighties was impressed watching a few of the longbow greats goofing off shooting aspirins out of the air, Ron LaClaire, Jerry Brumm, and Terry Henry all of which held world titles in that era.


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALxH2-pwOQ&safe=active

Walt and Ken Wilhelm: some old-school trick shooting.

This was the first one I could find on a quick search at work, but there are more videos out there on these two amazing shooters. 

Don't know (or care) if they fit the criteria as stated by the thread's title, but certainly worth looking up just to peruse yet another facet of archery expertise. Other videos feature them shooting out-of-sights over a hill.

Fun stuff.


----------



## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

howard hill was the greatest archer.fred bear help archery the most to what it is today besides being a great bow hunter,ya there are plenty of great recurve shooter`s like darrel pace-rick mckinney,the greatest compound shooter was terry ragsdale.i am talking about the hardest class for recurve and compound also "man`s class" ! the greatest archery whitetail hunter just might be mitch ropalla ? best for elk and mule deer randy ulmer. but it all leads back to the master of archery HOWARD HILL !


----------



## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np8u...iew&list=UUvI4v_LhTauD6EpYJaI70Sw&safe=active

Here's an uber-cool video with the Wilhelm brothers engaging in a series of interesting archery shots.


----------



## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Pete53 said:


> howard hill was the greatest archer.fred bear help archery the most to what it is today besides being a great bow hunter,ya there are plenty of great recurve shooter`s like darrel pace-rick mckinney,the greatest compound shooter was terry ragsdale.i am talking about the hardest class for recurve and compound also "man`s class" ! the greatest archery whitetail hunter just might be mitch ropalla ? best for elk and mule deer randy ulmer. but it all leads back to the master of archery HOWARD HILL !


Can you please name these plenty double individual gold medalist or triple world champions?? 

to OP: Darrel Pace without question....


----------



## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

It's easy one to answer Darrel Pace because his form is the reason the Koreans win pretty much every thing. They looked at what he was doing spent a load of cash working out what was important then went and built a training program that has grown from his mechanically perfect form.


----------



## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

DWAA; Williams had the almost perfect form as taught by KSL now?


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Pete53 said:


> howard hill was the greatest archer.fred bear help archery the most to what it is today besides being a great bow hunter,ya there are plenty of great recurve shooter`s like darrel pace-rick mckinney,the greatest compound shooter was terry ragsdale.i am talking about the hardest class for recurve and compound also "man`s class" ! the greatest archery whitetail hunter just might be mitch ropalla ? best for elk and mule deer randy ulmer. but it all leads back to the master of archery HOWARD HILL !


Howard Hill couldn't beat Russ Hoogerhyde in formal NAA style tournaments. Russ played in the game where the most competition was and he won. 

I used to see (usually in advertising claims) people bragging about being 30 times world champion when they only beat maybe 10 people. When Rick or Darrell won real world championships they beat thousands of people because the three or four people each country sent to those championships were the people who had beaten out their entire countries' populations of full time tournament archers to be there. That makes say the FITA world championship far more meaningful then some "world championship" held at a local club featuring perhaps a few archers from a few states.


----------



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Park Sing Hyun had the perfect form and shot sequence. I would vote for Daryl Pace for the men side.


Chris


----------



## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

Ok, if I may I'd like to post my thoughts. I tend to go with who I know, have met or have crossed paths with. Unfortunately I started shooting in 1971 about the time Mr. Hill retired. I would have to say that as far as bowyers, hands down Earl Hoyt would be my pick. His wife Ann was a great archer indeed. I would say Al Henderson was my favorite for coach and as far as promoting archery Joe Johnston and Fred Bear both topped my list. Yes, Stacy Groscup is the most accurate shooter I have witnessed, ever. The fact that he once hit seven aspirin tablets in a row without a miss in national tv speaks volumes for his ability. Sometimes a target archer questions me when I post on a FITA site but accuracy is accuracy. So thats my two cents.
Douglas Denton, the young bow engineer at Hoyt is also a great bow designer. Earl would be proud... You can see the 2014 bows next week on the Hoyt website.

I enjoyed this thread, thanks for posting.

Frank


----------



## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Aspirin Buster said:


> Ok, if I may I'd like to post my thoughts. I tend to go with who I know, have met or have crossed paths with. Unfortunately I started shooting in 1971 about the time Mr. Hill retired. I would have to say that as far as bowyers, hands down Earl Hoyt would be my pick. His wife Ann was a great archer indeed. I would say Al Henderson was my favorite for coach and as far as promoting archery Joe Johnston and Fred Bear both topped my list. Yes, Stacy Groscup is the most accurate shooter I have witnessed, ever. The fact that he once hit seven aspirin tablets in a row without a miss in national tv speaks volumes for his ability. Sometimes a target archer questions me when I post on a FITA site but accuracy is accuracy. So thats my two cents.
> Douglas Denton, the young bow engineer at Hoyt is also a great bow designer. Earl would be proud... You can see the 2014 bows next week on the Hoyt website.
> 
> I enjoyed this thread, thanks for posting.
> ...


I fully argee with this part......and I cannot image better way how to measure it oter than on target where everyone have the same conditions Fita target 90/70/50m or even Fita18 so no one is punished for lighter bows.... IMHO of course


----------



## Spider-Assassin (Jan 31, 2012)

Jason22 said:


> Either Robin Hood or Legolas.


Drat! You beat me to it!


----------



## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

chrstphr said:


> Park Sing Hyun had the perfect form and shot sequence. I would vote for Daryl Pace for the men side.
> 
> 
> Chris


No quite but pretty close. it's a minor detail forced bow hand release probably had a grabbing the bow issue when she was starting out and that is how the coaches fixed it


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

DWAA Archer said:


> No quite but pretty close. it's a minor detail forced bow hand release probably had a grabbing the bow issue when she was starting out and that is how the coaches fixed it


I don't understand what you mean. Would you expound?


----------



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

DWAA Archer said:


> No quite but pretty close. it's a minor detail forced bow hand release probably had a grabbing the bow issue when she was starting out and that is how the coaches fixed it


I dont see anything forced in her bow hand release. The only force is see is the force she uses to push the string into her face and chin. She shoots and pushes the bow forward after the shot. Her hand position is as good as it gets and she is able to replicate it every time. We would all be fortunate to be able to replicate her "forced bow hand". 

I heard Kisik Lee made a comment about her grip and it giving her tendonitis or a wrist injury of some sort. but it didnt seem to stop her domination, unless you count the Individual silver medal at Bejing as slipping. Why every national archery coaching staff doesnt teach her form, or Daryl Pace's , is beyond me. 

Chris


----------



## Larry Yien (Jul 8, 2004)

Russ Hoogerhyde and Darrell Pace come to mind first. Interesting read that Gilman Keasey made his bow and won the National Championships with it.


----------



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Greatest "what" archer? Greatest "Olympic" archer? Greatest "showman" archer? Greatest "head to head" archer? Even with more parsing, impossible question but great conversation starter.

Women - Park Sung Hyun ... Olympic gold, Olympic silver, 10 years later still the only recurve archer over 1400 Fita ... duh.

I say Rick McKinney for the men - 3 individual world championships spread over a decade (and the last archer in 30 years to win back-to-back titles), 5 consecutive team world titles, 9 US Nationals, and I believe at one time he simultaneously held the world records for 30, 50, and 70 meter distances. Plus I think you can thank him, more than any other archer, for the development/refinements into final form of the Beiter nock and the X10 arrow.


----------

