# Bear Takedown vs Hoyt Satori takedown



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Any ILF>Bear


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## JRT51 (Dec 17, 2018)

Not a fair comparison. Availability , cost and versatility of ILF limbs says Satori hands down


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

I know both bear and hoyt are big reputable company's...and assuming both are rugged enough for the field...what are the advantages and draw back to either? The intent is pretty vague on that.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

Internet***


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

When the price is not an issue, buy what you see yourself shooting with not what it is recommended by others. I see no reason to get ILF if you know you will use just one set of limbs and if anything happens you will buy another. ILF is good to change any type of limbs ( many times per year ) and keep the riser - not many are doing it actually.


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## Roof_Korean (Dec 19, 2018)

Draven Olary said:


> When the price is not an issue, buy what you see yourself shooting with not what it is recommended by others. I see no reason to get ILF if you know you will use just one set of limbs and if anything happens you will buy another. ILF is good to change any type of limbs ( many times per year ) and keep the riser - not many are doing it actually.


The same thing is true for any takedown, bear included.

OP, you dont get a bear for performance, you get one for the looks. ILFs can look good but nothing can replace that classic wood look. If you are more interested in performance get a satori, they are much easier to tune.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

*Heres a couple ILF bows*

















I don't think they look bad.

I agree with Grant....ANY ILF bow is better than a Bear.

A couple options; Dryad wood or Metal riser with WNS, Samick $100 limbs at; Alt services link
https://www.alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0087263.3.11017208335722595493

Trad tech Metal riser and any limbs above or the $150 TT limbs....all of the above options puts you at about $600 or less.

17" riser makes a 62" bow with long ILF limbs, 60" w/med, 58" w/ shorts. 

19' riser with longs =64"

The ILF limbs scale more on a short 17"/19" riser [weights are rated on a 21/25" OLy riser. My 36# longs scale 45# on a 19" riser at 28" DL [about the same on a 17"]....they are 50# at my 30 1/4" DL.

ILF platform offers you many options.....


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

Roof_Korean said:


> Draven Olary said:
> 
> 
> > When the price is not an issue, buy what you see yourself shooting with not what it is recommended by others. I see no reason to get ILF if you know you will use just one set of limbs and if anything happens you will buy another. ILF is good to change any type of limbs ( many times per year ) and keep the riser - not many are doing it actually.
> ...



Thanks for the information. Haven't been into it as long as most, so still new to the detailed ins and outs, but I'm getting there. I love the design with the quick assembly for both, but yes, most innterest is durability and performance


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I've never heard bad things about Bear takedowns and have shot many of them. However, an ILF offers unlimited choice in limbs and is more tunable. I think a Satori riser with Black Max limbs would be much cheaper than your $800-900 estimate.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Had several Bear T/D back in about 1970 & if you are looking at the vintage they were great shooting bows, but the newer ones seem to have creaking noise in the limb latch area as a friend has had 2 of them & both were returned to bear several times & couldn't get problem corrected.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

reddogge said:


> I've never heard bad things about Bear takedowns and have shot many of them. However, an ILF offers unlimited choice in limbs and is more tunable. I think a Satori riser with Black Max limbs would be much cheaper than your $800-900 estimate.


Haven't heard of those limbs... Thanks for the advice...how's the performance and durability with them?


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## 3finger (Mar 29, 2018)

I own and shoot a Bear Takedown. A riser and #1 limbs for a 60" bow. I really like the bow very much and shoot it pretty much exclusively. After getting the twisted upper limb corrected by Bear (great customer service) and correcting the limb creek with bees wax the bow has shot close to 50,000 trouble free arrows. I ordered the bow and it took 4 months to be delivered.

I also have several IFL risers and sets of limbs. They are all 25" high end Hoyt and W&W with med. limbs. 

Comparing the Bear to an IFL bow is not comparing apples to apples. I shot the Hoyt this summer and was pretty impressed. 

I you are wanting a Traditional Bow the Bear Takedown is a good choice. IMO 

The Hoyt IFL has a lot of attractive features.

If you don't own an IFL bow you owe it to yourself to get one.


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## lameduck (Jul 24, 2019)

I own a 21" Satori and despite it being my most expensive riser and probably one with the best features so far, it's currently collecting dusts (well not really because it's protected from dust while inside the case). I have only shot with it for a single session.

The only thing I don't like about the riser is it's top-heavy. It would have been better if it had neutral balance. But it seems designed to require stabilizer/weights attached to the bottom front just like an Olympic recurve. That is a "big" deal for me, because the reason I shoot traditional is because of the inherent elegance on their looks (and I don't like the looks of those after-market weights). Keep that in mind, in case you share the same sentiment. 🙂

If you would like a recommendation, I would throw in another choice you may like...the White Feather Lark riser. I own the 23" and 21" versions of it. This is my favorite because of its perfect balance and overall feel.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

3finger said:


> I own and shoot a Bear Takedown. A riser and #1 limbs for a 60" bow. I really like the bow very much and shoot it pretty much exclusively. After getting the twisted upper limb corrected by Bear (great customer service) and correcting the limb creek with bees wax the bow has shot close to 50,000 trouble free arrows. I ordered the bow and it took 4 months to be delivered.
> 
> I also have several IFL risers and sets of limbs. They are all 25" high end Hoyt and W&W with med. limbs.
> 
> ...



I do own a samick sage. I want to branch, but just didn't have enough information to make the leap...based on the information and testimonials from this forum, I think I'll end up going with the Hoyt satori riser and will look more into the black max limbs that was mentioned (I like the customizing options). I am typically on a budge, so if I can get a fantastic takedown recurve for a smaller price without sacrificing quality or performance, I'll do it, lol. I like compact features so thinking of satori riser with the short black max limbs at 50#...comes out to be about $300 less, +/-


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

lameduck said:


> I own a 21" Satori and despite it being my most expensive riser and probably one with the best features so far, it's currently collecting dusts (well not really because it's protected from dust while inside the case). I have only shot with it for a single session.
> 
> The only thing I don't like about the riser is it's top-heavy. It would have been better if it had neutral balance. But it seems designed to require stabilizer/weights attached to the bottom front just like an Olympic recurve. That is a "big" deal for me, because the reason I shoot traditional is because of the inherent elegance on their looks (and I don't like the looks of those after-market weights). Keep that in mind, in case you share the same sentiment. 🙂
> 
> If you would like a recommendation, I would throw in another choice you may like...the White Feather Lark riser. I own the 23" and 21" versions of it. This is my favorite because of its perfect balance and overall feel.


Being still fairly new to archery in general, I will always take recommendations. I'll look into the white feather lark. I like shooting traditional also. With that, I also like the short length. My samick sage is 62" which is great, but I would also like to find one a little shorter.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

Do all 3 riser sizes of the satori have holes for accessories such as sights, arrow rest, side quiver, etc?


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## Toxalot (Nov 17, 2019)

Have you talked with anyone at Lancaster Archery, or have you looked into other options? Their Galaxy line of bows is top notch and even cheaper than a Satori. Frankly I can't see over $700 in a metal riser takedown when you can buy a cheaper riser and good limbs and end up under $500 for a bow that shoots better than you will ever be able to shoot it. At least give John Wert a call and ask him about choices.


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## lameduck (Jul 24, 2019)

RyuKage said:


> Do all 3 riser sizes of the satori have holes for accessories such as sights, arrow rest, side quiver, etc?


The 21" and 19" have mounting holes for those, but the 17" doesn't have the side quiver holes.


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## lameduck (Jul 24, 2019)

RyuKage said:


> Being still fairly new to archery in general, I will always take recommendations. I'll look into the white feather lark. I like shooting traditional also. With that, I also like the short length. My samick sage is 62" which is great, but I would also like to find one a little shorter.


The White Feather Lark also comes in 19" size. Pairing it with short limbs makes a 60" bow, and 62" with medium limbs.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

reddogge said:


> I've never heard bad things about Bear takedowns and have shot many of them. However, an ILF offers unlimited choice in limbs and is more tunable. I think a Satori riser with Black Max limbs would be much cheaper than your $800-900 estimate.



Thanks reddogge. With the black max, is there is big difference in performance behind short vs medium limbs?


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

Trying to decide on short limbs or medium... Are there and disadvantages to a 58" bow?


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

RyuKage said:


> Haven't heard of those limbs... Thanks for the advice...how's the performance and durability with them?


Performance is really good and they are considered to be the best inexpensive limb out there. They also come in carbon/foam. On an ILF riser I've been shooting the Titan III since 2012 and love it.

On the limb size I like to use my draw length to choose my limbs. I have a 27.5" draw so I'm a medium limb guy. I pair that with the riser length to give me the bow length I want. This allows you to maximize performance of the limb.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

reddogge said:


> RyuKage said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't heard of those limbs... Thanks for the advice...how's the performance and durability with them?
> ...



Ah okay. I have a 29-30" draw but still looking to try for a shorter bow (my samick sage is 62"). 
Short limbs 55# weight with a 17" riser would get me about 58" bow length, right? Or would a 19" riser get more performance and power from the limbs


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## Phil Magistro (Apr 19, 2004)

I've owned Bear take downs since the mid-80s. Over the years the limb design has been improved and today's limbs are excellent performers. Not as fast as high-end ILF limbs but nothing to look down on. That said, there are many ILF limbs that will shoot as well and cost less.

The Bear Take down is a proven design. It carries a lot of history for archery and bowhunting. Owning one connects many of us with the history of bowhunting. An A riser and #1 limbs will give you a 56" bow. With #3 limbs you'll have a 60" bow. Bow length may play a role in how well you shoot.

In spite of my history and love for the Bear take down, my opinion is that a good ILF riser gives you so many more options. I don't own a Satori so I cannot comment on that specific bow but there are a number of good metal and wood risers that you can couple with a wide choice of limbs to get the price and performance you want. JC Optimus (John's Custom Archery) is a highly recommended riser with a price that is very reasonable. They have a FaceBoook site. Lancaster Archery is a good source for more information on other options.

To get a shorter bow than your Samick you could go with a 17" riser and short (58") or medium (60") limbs. Your draw length is one factor to consider in limb length. I draw 28" and find no problem shooting shorts on a 17" riser but I do seem to shoot better with mediums making a 60" bow. At your draw length I wouldn't recommend short limbs. The choice of ILF limbs seems nearly endless from $100 to $1000. For the money it is hard to beat the Trad Tech Black Max limbs either glass/wood or carbon/wood. Carbon/foam limbs will run about twice as much as glass/wood just to get the entry level. It may be a good idea to start with the Black Max limbs and shoot a while before buying something more expensive that you may not like.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

Phil Magistro said:


> I've owned Bear take downs since the mid-80s. Over the years the limb design has been improved and today's limbs are excellent performers. Not as fast as high-end ILF limbs but nothing to look down on. That said, there are many ILF limbs that will shoot as well and cost less.
> 
> The Bear Take down is a proven design. It carries a lot of history for archery and bowhunting. Owning one connects many of us with the history of bowhunting. An A riser and #1 limbs will give you a 56" bow. With #3 limbs you'll have a 60" bow. Bow length may play a role in how well you shoot.
> 
> ...


That actually helped me out quite a bit. I'm looking for the shorter T/D for added mobility, but don't want to sacrifice performance.

Unless something changes, I'm leaving towards 17" riser with the medium limbs or the 19" with short limbs, that would still get me the 60" bow length, right? Either way I'll check out the black max limbs since I've never owned an ILF bow before.


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## horseman308 (Apr 17, 2006)

I've got a Bear TD - the A riser (15") and #3 limbs for a 60" bow. I have both 30 and 40 lb limbs and a 29" draw, so on an A riser that comes put at around 35# and 45# at my draw. It is a newer production (2017 or 2018) and has never made acrack, click, or other unwanted sound. With the long limbs, it draws very smoothly and still feels relatively nimble.

I can't speak to the Satori. I hear great things about them, but the Bear TD has been a dream bow since I was 13, and I have not been disappointed. However, there's no great reason to buy new unless there's a good sale. Plenty of great bows wind up for sale. Mine was just a few months old when I bought it. It was essentially new condition and 25% less than new. 

If I buy another bow, it'll be an ILF rig with a nice wood riser (I really dislike metal risers) to try out other options. I don't think either one is a bad choice unless you get a lemon. But either way, I prefer limbs on the longer side to maximize smoothness and shorter risers to keep the length down if you're planning to hunt.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## anthonyray (Jun 26, 2019)

A 17" riser and short limbs gives you a 58" bow. I shot South Cox's static tipped limbs on a 17" tdx riser, 58", and loved the bow. Great performance and very easy to shoot and quiet down. Balance was perfect.
The difference between a Satori and a Bear is huge. First off, Bear's grips suck. Worst grip I ever felt. The bow never performed like I thought it should, and they're not very smooth at all. I'd never own another Bear.
The Satori's grip is near perfect, with a good shape, and the deflexed riser is very comfortable to shoot. Rattlesnake grips made me a custom grip that I just love. Balance of the riser is great.
The 17" riser don't have the amo holes for sight, quiver or rest, but the 19" and 21" does. But the option to set your center shot is great. I don't use the plates it comes up, use my own system.
Lots of good decent ilf limbs in the market today. The Chinese is making a great high performance carbon/foam limb that's super smooth and quick at a very low price.


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

lameduck said:


> ...The only thing I don't like about the riser is it's top-heavy...



lameduck,

That's not the first time you've said that. I don't know why folks keep saying it, since it's far from fact. My 21" Satori balances perfectly just like every other bow I've owned, save for risers that had weight built in. Seems some folks think Hoyt doesn't know how to make a riser. Gee Whiz!


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## lameduck (Jul 24, 2019)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> lameduck,
> 
> That's not the first time you've said that. I don't know why *folks keep saying it*, since it's far from fact. My 21" Satori balances perfectly just like every other bow I've owned, save for risers that had weight built in. Seems some folks think Hoyt doesn't know how to make a riser. Gee Whiz!


I'm just going by my own firsthand observation, and that is a fact. So, other owners have reported the same issue? That only proves I'm not lying about it.

Also, I would be curious to know what type of grips others have on their Satori risers, because mine came with Hoyt's new "composite" grip. I know yours is from the older batch and came with wood grip. If you don't mind me asking, how much does the wood grip weighs? And did you happen to find any extra material underneath the wood grip that could give any slightest weight biased towards the bottom?


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Do me a favor--if you'd be so kind. Take your strung Satori and your strung Lark, put the grip on our index finger and see how they balance compared to each other. Both of mine balance PERFECTLY level.

The wood grip weighs 1.7 ounces and no, there's nothing under it.


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## lameduck (Jul 24, 2019)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> Do me a favor--if you'd be so kind. Take your strung Satori and your strung Lark, put the grip on our index finger and see how they balance compared to each other.


With the string installed, you simply add a trailing weight to mask the top-heaviness of the Satori (in comparison to any riser). That method of balance test is flawed, because that is not how we hold the bow when making the shot.

Come on, Mr. Jim... both of us have the Lark and the Satori. I'm sure you have tried properly balancing both risers on your own.

NOTE: I'll be waiting on your answer to my question about the presence of extra material underneath the wood grip of the older Satori batch which you have (if you don't mind).


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Both "bows" balance perfectly--neither riser will. Try it, you might find out for yourself. The Satori, Lark, Tradtech Titan, DAS, Morrison, Black Widow, Martin, Bear all balance the same. Just for the record... I don't know what you're talking about--"add a trailing weight."

No need to wait, it's in my previous post. I went out in the garage, weighed it and updated my post. Hoyt doesn't need to add extra weight under the grips on their risers since they're already perfectly balanced.


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## lameduck (Jul 24, 2019)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> Both "bows" balance perfectly--neither riser will. Try it, you might find out for yourself. The Satori, Lark, Tradtech Titan, DAS, Morrison, Black Widow, Martin, Bear all balance the same. Just for the record... I don't know what you're talking about--"add a trailing weight."


With the limbs installed, all bows would look balanced the same way laid with the string downward. I call it trailing weight, because that is the direction of the added weight when the bow is in the upright shooting position. 

But try shooting with both bows Olympic-style and you know which one hits your head after making the shot (I know they are not Olympic risers, but you should get the point).


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

anthonyray said:


> A 17" riser and short limbs gives you a 58" bow. I shot South Cox's static tipped limbs on a 17" tdx riser, 58", and loved the bow. Great performance and very easy to shoot and quiet down. Balance was perfect.
> The difference between a Satori and a Bear is huge. First off, Bear's grips suck. Worst grip I ever felt. The bow never performed like I thought it should, and they're not very smooth at all. I'd never own another Bear.
> The Satori's grip is near perfect, with a good shape, and the deflexed riser is very comfortable to shoot. Rattlesnake grips made me a custom grip that I just love. Balance of the riser is great.
> The 17" riser don't have the amo holes for sight, quiver or rest, but the 19" and 21" does. But the option to set your center shot is great. I don't use the plates it comes up, use my own system.
> Lots of good decent ilf limbs in the market today. The Chinese is making a great high performance carbon/foam limb that's super smooth and quick at a very low price.


The holes for the accessories wouldn't definitely be a bonus, but the 17" does still have the plate for center shot, right?


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

lameduck said:


> With the limbs installed, all bows would look balanced the same way laid with the string downward. I call it trailing weight, because that is the direction of the added weight when the bow is in the upright shooting position.
> 
> But try shooting with both bows Olympic-style and you know which one hits your head after making the shot (I know they are not Olympic risers, but you should get the point).


I get the point; have had it for 50 years. They're all the same and have been forever unless they have added weight to the bottom.


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## Ginslinger (May 25, 2016)

With a 29-30" draw you may be more comfortable (stacking/finger pinch) with medium limbs and a shorter riser. Generally, the shorter the limbs the sooner stacking may be noticed, and the shorter the bow the sharper the string angle at your fingers. Someone already suggested giving John Wert a call at Lancaster Archery, and there's also a video posted which may help: ttps://www.lancasterarchery.com/blog/video/whats-the-right-size-recurve-bow-for-me/


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

+29" draw is medium or long limbs. I know very few folks who can tell the difference between 62 and 66" bows when moving through the woods but every one of them can tell in the accuracy of the longer bow.


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## Belicoso (Aug 22, 2006)

+29" draw is medium or long limbs. I know very few folks who can tell the difference between 62 and 66" bows when moving through the woods but every one of them can tell in the accuracy of the longer bow.
So true.
Most limbs are also designed for olympic length risers and dont like the short risers at all.They just stack at around 29 inches of dl.


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## anthonyray (Jun 26, 2019)

Yes, the 17" riser still has the center shot adjustment plates, but I don't like em and don't use them. 
I shoot 58" bows and 60" bows righ no issues with my 29 1/2" draw. And the performance in a 60" bow compared to a 64" bow is big. 
When they say a 64" bow is more stable.. Compared to what? And we ain't talking Olympic set ups either.
A medium limb on a 17" riser works more then on a 19" riser. The shorter riser will make the tips work and open up, the 19" riser don't. 
Sid from Border had a great post on Facebook about why a 60" bow that opens the tips feels like a 64" bow at full draw. Bob Lee has great working tips on his bows, the reason why they are super smooth, and with the wedge under the limb to change limb angle, the limbs really work. And when you have that 29" plus draw, you can make a limb work to give you the performance guys with 27" or 28" draws don't achieve.


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## anthonyray (Jun 26, 2019)

The limbs from top bowyers can be made to perform at your draw length. And stacking is about limb design. Some limbs font stack at all at 29", some limbs start to stack at 25". DFC will show you that, or watching a bow scale while drawing your bow.
Many guys have no issues with stacking, many guys can't tell you if their limbs stack. That's why some guys say a limb feels soft or spongy to them, because those limbs aren't building the draw weigh the way their limbs do.
Today, a lot of limbs, like Bosens, are being designed to achieve the draw weights and performance on their 17" risers. Not Olympic risers. Trad techs are designed for their Titan risers, DAS limbs for their DAS risers. Custom bowyers are making limbs that perform best on their risers. When I bought a set of ilf limbs from South Cox, my riser was sent to him to make sure I had the draw weight I wanted, and to make sure I had perfect limb pocket fit. My limbs were built for my riser. And the static tipped limbs are amazing!! 
I have two sets of static tipped limbs, South Cox's and Bosen Archery. A huge step up over my carbon/foam Winex limbs, and within the same price range. I tell everyone shooting ilf, buy quality limbs and you won't be buying five or six sets a year looking for a solid performance limb.


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## Zsoltika (Nov 27, 2017)

I reccomend the Satori-you have more options in the future with an ILF bow.


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

Good to be getting a 17" satori with medium size limbs at 55# draw, what are some good suggestions for the strings to get the most out of the out of the bow?


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## RyuKage (Nov 21, 2019)

Going***


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## Ardbeg (Dec 22, 2019)

Did you get them? How do they shoot for yout? Are you happy with the choice?


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