# Mathews lays off 35 employees today



## AK&HIboy (Mar 6, 2008)

Not a bash, but leads one to believe 15 line up is not very promising? If it we're I wouldn't expect job cuts prior?


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

Well, I have been trying for 9 weeks to get rock mods for my ChillR with no success. One of those cases where the customer wants to buy and the company is clearly not interested in selling.
Definitely my last Mathews


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## shaner3d (May 6, 2008)

Wonder if other bow manufacturers are feeling the same financial crunch....or is Mathews just feeling the loss of market share to a variety of other bow companies?


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## Smiley1215 (May 10, 2013)

Wow not cool for said employees.


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## AZSpaniol (May 6, 2012)

Always sad to hear about people losing their job.


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## Pulse76 (Oct 30, 2011)

Sucks for those employees. I saw a pic that leaked of their 2015 target riser. Anytime I put the pic up, it was immediately pulled. Looked like their same old geo grid riser with a riser cage, similar to Elite.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Wow.... Really surprised


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## Dale_B1 (Jan 31, 2004)

Boubou said:


> Well, I have been trying for 9 weeks to get rock mods for my ChillR with no success. One of those cases where the customer wants to buy and the company is clearly not interested in selling.
> Definitely my last Mathews


I would be looking to your importer and not Mathews for that kind of wait. We get them within a week usually. IMHO your blameing the wrong company.


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

Dale_B1 said:


> I would be looking to your importer and not Mathews for that kind of wait. We get them within a week usually. IMHO your blameing the wrong company.


Yes but since the importer is sleeping at the switch, Mathews could make it possible for me to order mods and get them in a week. Ordered them through another shop and they received the regular mods not the rock ones and I had left them a copy if the rock mods chart with the 27.5 and 28" mods and part number highlighted
If you are willing to sell them by mail to me I am buying
I must point out that of the 5 shops I contacted, none of the have heard about the rock mods.
I should hear today from the shop who got the wrong ones


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## Rat Trapper (Apr 1, 2012)

While I feel sorry for those who got laid off, I do not feel sorry for the company. Worst customer service I have ever seen. Back in 2013 I had a C4 and had questions so I went on line and from their website used contact us. After couple weeks and no reply I did it again with same results. So I called them what I was told is that if I want an answer to my question I had to go through a dealer??? Well that bow went down the road and I bought a Darton 2014 DS4514, I like this bow way better than the C4. I met the Darton Sales manager and staff at the Deer and turkey show in Madison, WI last April. Unlike Mathews these people like to answer questions and are more than willing to help. I feel Mathews bows have always been over priced.


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## hunt123 (Jan 17, 2009)

How many employees do they have in total? Is this 10%?


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## bownazi (Mar 8, 2009)

hunt123 said:


> How many employees do they have in total? Is this 10%?



http://mathewsinc.com/why-mathews/philosophy/


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

Oh and by the way, sorry for those who got laid off.
Went through that 5 years ago after 26 years at the same company


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Rat Trapper said:


> While I feel sorry for those who got laid off, I do not feel sorry for the company. Worst customer service I have ever seen. Back in 2013 I had a C4 and had questions so I went on line and from their website used contact us. After couple weeks and no reply I did it again with same results. So I called them what I was told is that if I want an answer to my question I had to go through a dealer??? Well that bow went down the road and I bought a Darton 2014 DS4514, I like this bow way better than the C4. I met the Darton Sales manager and staff at the Deer and turkey show in Madison, WI last April. Unlike Mathews these people like to answer questions and are more than willing to help. I feel Mathews bows have always been over priced.


Lol


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Boubou said:


> Yes but since the importer is sleeping at the switch, Mathews could make it possible for me to order mods and get them in a week. Ordered them through another shop and they received the regular mods not the rock ones and I had left them a copy if the rock mods chart with the 27.5 and 28" mods and part number highlighted
> If you are willing to sell them by mail to me I am buying
> I must point out that of the 5 shops I contacted, none of the have heard about the rock mods.
> I should hear today from the shop who got the wrong ones


If the 5 shops have not heard of Rock mods then they must live under a rock. The shop I go to has had them for months since shortly after they were announced.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I wonder if those jobs are actually going overseas. They said economic conditions, but that can mean anything. 

Really hate hearing about those folks losing their jobs. We've been through that and it's scary for the employees and their families.


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## SynapsesFire (Mar 25, 2008)

Hopefully the other successful bow companies will pick them up!!.. although i guess it depends on what positions, could be marketing, sales, who knows.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

Eliminated around 300 dealers I was told last week as well. When you operate with an attitude of "we are better than everyone else" "we do everything on our terms" what goes around comes around. Putting all their eggs in one basket (single cams) was the beginning of an end when years later they had to eat the eggs and come back to two cam bows. While I hate it for the employees I have to chuckle at a pompus arrogant company that is getting what it deserves. Maybe they can bring themselves to attend the ATA show in the near future.


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

Weren't they the 1st Bow Manufacturer to make Fortune 500. What goes up must come down. When a Company gets the attitude that the customer NEEDS them instead of them needing the customer this will happen eventually.


Boonerbrad said:


> Eliminated around 300 dealers I was told last week as well. When you operate with an attitude of "we are better than everyone else" "we do everything on our terms" what goes around comes around. Putting all their eggs in one basket (single cams) was the beginning of an end when years later they had to eat the eggs and come back to two cam bows. While I hate it for the employees I have to chuckle at a pompus arrogant company that is getting what it deserves. Maybe they can bring themselves to attend the ATA show in the near future.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.


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## ruttnwapati (Sep 22, 2008)

Truly, sorry for those losing their jobs. Went through this years ago and wouldn't wish it upon anyone. I could careless of the ATers' opinions on why they are losing their and all the keyboard CEO here. Best of luck to those who are going through this. Wishing the best for you and your families.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is the downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. The dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> Pathetic.
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going in the future.


I can appreciate all Matt has done as well no doubt. But running a company with an arrogance of we are better than everyone else will and maybe has come back to bite him.


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## TexasCanesFan (Jun 23, 2005)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is the downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. The dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> Pathetic.
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going in the future.


Its AT brother. Chicken Little is alive and well here.

Sorry to the effected employees.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.


Great post. I find some of the hateful comments on here hilarious. To hate a company as much as some of these comments go is very strange. Many on this site take their fanboyism to another level, they make it a personal level, and if anything is going on with a company good or bad other than their own they are all over it, I don't know whether it's pathetic or scary lol.


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

Boonerbrad said:


> I can appreciate all Matt has done as well no doubt. But running a company with an arrogance of we are better than everyone else will and maybe has come back to bite him.


What successful company does not think they are better than their competition a bunch of people who do not understand the sport of business and free market. I would outsource the jobs as well I work for a very large company in the outdoor industry and the down turn in the economy coupled with ObamaCare has made it nearly impossible. Its a necessary evil but our government policies will cost 100s of 1000s of jobs.


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

Sad sad deal. Hope the people who have been laid off can find new jobs soon. This economy really sucks. My take home pay hasn't went up for 12 years. In fact it has went down about 25%. Stop and calculate the increases in food, fuel, electricity,water, etc in the last 12 years.

The inflation index would be sky high had they not taken food and fuel out of the calculations. 

Good luck and wishes to all who lost their jobs.


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## bowjoe1800 (Sep 8, 2008)

Amen brother


rattlinman said:


> i too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an american company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many i you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> I hate to hear that any americans lost their jobs and i hope they find other opportunities soon, but mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.


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## SCFox (Dec 11, 2005)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Great post. I find some of the hateful comments on here hilarious. To hate a company as much as some of these comments go is very strange. Many on this site take their fanboyism to another level, they make it a personal level, and if anything is going on with a company good or bad other than their own they are all over it, I don't know whether it's pathetic or scary lol.


It's pathetic. 

SCFox


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

bghunter7777 said:


> What successful company does not think they are better than their competition a bunch of people who do not understand the sport of business and free market. I would outsource the jobs as well I work for a very large company in the outdoor industry and the down turn in the economy coupled with ObamaCare has made it nearly impossible. Its a necessary evil but our government policies will cost 100s of 1000s of jobs.


Well said. I fear it is gonna get a lot worse and it may not be that long before it hits the fan. Obama care is gonna hit soon. I know a guy with a small construction company and he just said the other day he may throw the towel in. May be a lot of people jobless within another year or two.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

SCFox said:


> It's pathetic.
> 
> SCFox


Some of these tools act like mathews inc went to their house and burned it down. Then grabbed their bow and sliced the cables off it. The jealousy and hate spouted is pathetic, you are correct. It's also hilarious. Some are taking their fanboyism and brand WAY too seriously. It's worse than even the Chevy ford debate.


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

As other bow companies gain market share , some will loose it. It's business in general.
In the last 10 years we have seen {as an industry} many upstart bow manufacturer's do very well.
To stay in business you have to do it better than the other guys or your business declines.
I agree that Mathews CS is not what it was. I'm sure this had a lot to do with their market decrease.
I feel bad for the employees that got laid off. Sucks!


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Some of these tools act like mathews inc went to their house and burned it down. Then grabbed their bow and sliced the cables off it. The jealousy and hate spouted is pathetic, you are correct. It's also hilarious. Some are taking their fanboyism and brand WAY too seriously. It's worse than even the Chevy ford debate.


 A little common sense never hurts but is hard to find anymore. What company stated for years single cam bows were the only way to go and then ate crow and returned to two cams? What company created it's own camo pattern and then refused to allow another company not using said pattern to attend the Mathews show in Wisconsin every year? What company spends millions every year to have their "own" party instead of attending the ATA show? Their "own" party costs shop owners an extra couple days every year to attend vs seeing it all at the ATA show. What company just told a few other companies their lost camo offerings were not good enough any more and could no longer attend the Mathews show. It is the Mathews attitude that has turned many many customers away and they seem to still not get it. Customer service and the consumer are "ALL" Mathews or any company for that matter has. And I shot Matt's bows for years. Starting with a Mcpherson and finally a Monster 6.


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## archer58 in pa (Jan 3, 2007)

thwackaddict said:


> Sad sad deal. Hope the people who have been laid off can find new jobs soon. This economy really sucks. My take home pay hasn't went up for 12 years. In fact it has went down about 25%. Stop and calculate the increases in food, fuel, electricity,water, etc in the last 12 years.
> 
> The inflation index would be sky high had they not taken food and fuel out of the calculations.


I feel for you. Glad I'm not the only one in this boat.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Boonerbrad said:


> A little common sense never hurts but is hard to find anymore. What company stated for years single cam bows were the only way to go and then ate crow and returned to two cams? What company created it's own camo pattern and then refused to allow another company not using said pattern to attend the Mathews show in Wisconsin every year? What company spends millions every year to have their "own" party instead of attending the ATA show? Their "own" party costs shop owners an extra couple days every year to attend vs seeing it all at the ATA show. What company just told a few other companies their lost camo offerings were not good enough any more and could no longer attend the Mathews show. It is the Mathews attitude that has turned many many customers away and they seem to still not get it. Customer service and the consumer are "ALL" Mathews or any company for that matter has. And I shot Matt's bows for years. Starting with a Mcpherson and finally a Monster 6.


None of these things are in any way a bad thing, that's my point. And their customer service is absolutely stellar. So you kinda swung and missed on that one. Every company is going to pump their product. Look at all the fluff hoyt did for their new line up lol. Claiming revolutionary designs that will change archery forever. Well nothing was revolutionary at all. 

Point is, don't hate, it's easier to live that way. And I'm not saying that's particularly directed to you, but this site is notorious for mathews hate


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

Man that is sad. I never want someone to lose their job due to the economy and I always want our sport to be growing not declining.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Boonerbrad said:


> A little common sense never hurts but is hard to find anymore. What company stated for years single cam bows were the only way to go and then ate crow and returned to two cams? What company created it's own camo pattern and then refused to allow another company not using said pattern to attend the Mathews show in Wisconsin every year? What company spends millions every year to have their "own" party instead of attending the ATA show? Their "own" party costs shop owners an extra couple days every year to attend vs seeing it all at the ATA show. What company just told a few other companies their lost camo offerings were not good enough any more and could no longer attend the Mathews show. It is the Mathews attitude that has turned many many customers away and they seem to still not get it. Customer service and the consumer are "ALL" Mathews or any company for that matter has. And I shot Matt's bows for years. Starting with a Mcpherson and finally a Monster 6.


I shoot a ton of different bow for different reasons, but Mathews is just really good at business. I have no clue why those jobs were lost but guessing it has to do with technology and outsourcing. That is business. I am guessing that Mathews will have a huge year this year in both sales and products. Look at how well the Chill X has done in just the short time it's been out. I am thinking with all the bows going this year they are condensing lines and coming out with something new. They do the things listed above because they CAN. They are the only brand that has built the loyalty it has to produce enough people and companies that will attend a whole different show then the ATA. They are marketing geniuses, and it has worked well for them. Those jobs will not hurt Mathews one bit. I don't always shoot Mathews but have to respect the powerhouse company they have built.
Think about the public perception of their bows, for right or wrong. 
Quality; no one can beat the quality of Mathews. Some may now equal it but bow for bow that comes off their line they are top of the game
Easy of shooting; almost everyone that starts shooting has at least heard of Mathews. They believe (for better or worse) that Mathews bows almost shoot themselves. This is a matter of marketing and if the buyer believes it to be true then most likely their body will follow their mind and it will become true for them.
The idea that they give back; from skipping the ATA and donating that money back into the schools programs (and another awesome marketing idea in-and-of-itself) and the entire mission lineup.
Overall Mathews is still the number #1 player in the game and is poised to stay that way for a while, at least that is what I would be telling myself if I was any other manufacture of bows. I would continue to place them at the top and use them as my target, my goal to be better than them.


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## Irish66 (Feb 11, 2007)

Very sorry for the employees affected by the layoffs........ The I am better than you mentality will always catch up. Serious lack of leadership and selfishness by the management team at M. Jmo


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.


Excellent post. Some of these responses on here are simply unbelievable. Even if I disagree with a company or how they do business I would never chuckle at this. This American company has done everything it can for archery and us hunters and I wish them the best. I hope the laid off find good jobs asap.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I've never been a fan of the single cam. I've never had much interest in a Mathews other than at one time the Prestige caught my eye. Being I have a 26" draw that's no surprise.

I find amusing ignorant "Fan Boys" of any stripe. For many years Mathews had the biggest Fan club in the industry and had an absolutely huge customer base. So of course they also had the largest contingent of ignorant "fan boys". 

BUT Mathews has done an awful lot for archery! I expect many people don't know how much Mathews has put into getting NASP established. Mathews put a ton of money back into archery by supporting a lot of shooters (Pro Staff) and sponsoring a lot of tournaments in many different venues (3D, World Cup, NFAA). I may not have liked all of Mathews "pro's" over the years but that is zero reason not to respect what Mathews as a business has done for archery. 

Working people have lost jobs and that's nothing to celebrate. At the same time I bet some of those folks actually deserved to be let go, there are probably some that were let go while others were kept that shouldn't have been......... I sure hope Mathews can keep cranking out the Genesis bows and promoting NASP!

Why is it that many people love to be ignorant "fan boys" and still more love to kick people (Mathews) when they are down? I know I do not benefit in any way by Mathews reducing their work force. I have no reason to be happy that people have lost their jobs........


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## DonnieBaker (Nov 18, 2005)

What Mathews is to Sparta......Oshkosh Corp. is to Oshkosh. OC just laid off 300 and with another 75 in December (not all production positions). I hate hearing about layoffs. I'll get to a point in a minute or two.

I cant stress enough how we as parents need to do make sure our children have a solid educational foundation in Science, Engineering, Technology, and especially Math. STEM is the heart, the lungs, the blood of our stable economic future. Right now, we're flinging wood arrows out of a sears catalog recurve....yeah, we'll put some meat in the freezer I suppose.....developing countries such as India are also flinging wood arrows out of recurves, however, they're educating their next generation on how to develop laser tracking carbon arrows, tipped with multiple slick tricks :set1_thinking:, out of an alien alloy, quadruple binary, mauser-action, rotary magazine-fed killing machine...while sitting in a blind that has a cloaking device - aimed square at us. You see where I'm going here......?

We're going to get our ass' whooped in another generation or so (if that) if we, as a whole don't demand educational reform. My Son took hunter safety a few weeks ago. The last day was the written test. The instructor was reading the directions and asked if any of the students needed the test read to them. I ****unot, seven (7) of the students raised their hands. 

Understand..I get it, there are some individuals with reading disorders and the like - but 7 out of 21 or 1/3. For crying out loud....read to your kids, help them with their math, get involved in their education. If you need help, pick up the damn phone and call someone. All but 2 of these kids were older than my boy Tristan (12). 

On to my point:

Our kids (adults also) need to be prepared for the advanced manufacturing/economy of the future. Manufacturing is the bedrock in which our country will thrive...if our future generation isn't equipped with the tools needed, America will fall like a rock and become a second-tier nation. Lower skilled production will be squeezed out by more efficient and leaner practices. That means Henry Ford's assembly line will be a footnote in the history books. 

Technical School, Military service (best investment IMO), Apprenticeship (2nd best), College (2/4 year), etc. If you don't have these credentials, your chances of this happening to you are increased exponentially. I hate to hear of layoffs - it sucks the big one; I was a victim myself. 

Sorry for the rant. Nothing personal against anyone. I love my country and hate to see it in such a degraded state of affairs.


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## Trigg (Oct 16, 2013)

Time to make sure your house is in order. The markets are going to see a correction. Health care is going to take so much and the jobless rate around the world is going to climb. Charity starts at home and we cannot fix everyone else problems. So if you do care about what is happening go vote and make sure they fix our problems.


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## DonnieBaker (Nov 18, 2005)

4IDARCHER said:


> I shoot a ton of different bow for different reasons, but Mathews is just really good at business. I have no clue why those jobs were lost but guessing it has to do with technology and outsourcing. That is business. I am guessing that Mathews will have a huge year this year in both sales and products. Look at how well the Chill X has done in just the short time it's been out. I am thinking with all the bows going this year they are condensing lines and coming out with something new. They do the things listed above because they CAN. They are the only brand that has built the loyalty it has to produce enough people and companies that will attend a whole different show then the ATA. They are marketing geniuses, and it has worked well for them. Those jobs will not hurt Mathews one bit. I don't always shoot Mathews but have to respect the powerhouse company they have built.
> Think about the public perception of their bows, for right or wrong.
> Quality; no one can beat the quality of Mathews. Some may now equal it but bow for bow that comes off their line they are top of the game
> Easy of shooting; almost everyone that starts shooting has at least heard of Mathews. They believe (for better or worse) that Mathews bows almost shoot themselves. This is a matter of marketing and if the buyer believes it to be true then most likely their body will follow their mind and it will become true for them.
> ...


Well said.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Bottom line 35 employees are out of a job. Prayers to the families and hope they find employment soon.


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## Rjm08 (May 22, 2002)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.


Excellent! 

This economy coupled with the skyrocketing health care costs has hurt more than just businesses. I've watched very successful churches be forced to either lay people off or to choose to not replace folks who retire simply because if they wouldn't have made the necessary changes, they would have gone under. 
I had to let an employee go simply because the bottom fell out of giving. 
So people are being forced to use their employees more efficiently and make them multi-task in order to keep the same level of service. 
Archery is no different. You either change or die. 
Even in the local shop I frequent, he can't keep crossbows in stock while last year's Hoyt models collect dust on the racks, and now the new ones are coming. 
Look what happened at GM. The company was as good as gone if the Govt hadn't stepped in. The restructure phased out Pontiac,Oldsmobile and Saturn.

Change is here. Praying the affected workers get new jobs!


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

Mathews will be fine. It's just the nature of the beast. I do hope those people who lost their jobs can find work very soon.


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## boonerbrad (Nov 30, 2006)

There are also 300 dealers that now won't have Mathews bows to sell and profit from. This layoff runs much deeper than what is seen on the surface. You think sales were way down at Mathews this year?


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

I wonder what exact "economic conditions" to which they are referring. Without that revelation, the rest is speculation. It could also be that even healthy companies go thru a RIF to trim the fat. GE will fire the bottom 10% of their poorest performers every year.


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## c0d3x5 (Nov 11, 2011)

thats because they are moving production to china..


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## Tripper (Oct 16, 2014)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Bottom line 35 employees are out of a job. Prayers to the families and hope they find employment soon.


This is what matters... To be happy Mathews is laying off employees is immature. With all the issues facing American families today...finding joy in an American company that is being forced to lay off American workers shows what kind of character one has. Is that character something you would like to instill in your children? Prayers sent for these people and their families.


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## griffwar (Nov 15, 2012)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.


Well said!!


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## Polls822 (Nov 4, 2013)

What's sad are the fanboys of Mathews and anti's of Mathews in this thread. The fanboys are defending Mathews stating what they've done to give back and yada yada. They just let go of 35 employees. No matter how you look at it that's not a good thing for a company. You don't let go of employees because you're doing well financially. Stop letting your love for the brand try and defend them in a situation like this.

On the other side are the anti's who hate Mathews so much the word "chuckle" is being thrown around in this thread. You should really sit back and look at yourself for laughing when 35 Americans lost their jobs and are now probably scrambling to find ways to support their families.


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## biggie9367 (Apr 25, 2011)

This is a bad sign for us trying to break in the industry.


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## bownutt2 (Nov 30, 2006)

Mathews had been on a ramp-up of sub-segments that has reached a plateau. The addition of McPherson, Crossbow and Mission lines has expanded their marketing, product lines and distribution greatly in the last several years. Competition has grown and archery is a luxury commodity. Mathews is addressing their business issues as all good companies do, and their business plans have been used a template for years for other businesses. They review their distributors annually to add and terminate, based on standards and minimums. They don't have the support of an umbrella, like Easton is to Hoyt. They are an excellent company that happens to sell archery equipment, and they must be fiscally responsible or go by the wayside. 

Best of luck and good shootin'.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Polls822 said:


> What's sad are the fanboys of Mathews and anti's of Mathews in this thread. The fanboys are defending Mathews stating what they've done to give back and yada yada. They just let go of 35 employees. No matter how you look at it that's not a good thing for a company. You don't let go of employees because you're doing well financially. Stop letting your love for the brand try and defend them in a situation like this.
> 
> On the other side are the anti's who hate Mathews so much the word "chuckle" is being thrown around in this thread. You should really sit back and look at yourself for laughing when 35 Americans lost their jobs and are now probably scrambling to find ways to support their families.


To your first paragraph, feel free to "label" me a fanboy or whatever you like that makes you feel better. I have my reasons for supporting Mathews and I apologize if you feel I owe you a reason or need to justify my support for an American based company that gives back to the community. I would mention his mission trips, but then you might "label" me a Jesus fanboy... and man would that sting!

To your second paragraph, I agree with you. We should be concerned with the state of our economy and hope that our fellow Americans can find new opportunities.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Saw this on another site

What they're not telling you is that it was more like 150 people. And 2 weeks ago, they fired 4 of their top employees. My buddy works there, he kept his job so far. He says, they are going downhill. And the company may be in the process of being sold. But the news article isn't accurate, it was more than 35 people.


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## Mr.Wiggles (Dec 29, 2007)

It's sad,but I really wonder if these 35 employees are the ones that stuck with mathews and helped them get where they are,we aren't talking about a huge company with thousands of employees,I hope they all find new jobs.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

I wonder if a disgruntled employee released the riser pic we all saw last week?


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

The first of nov I will be ordering my two bows


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

They are also, cutting Dealers. We got a Certified letter just this a.m. Weird.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

TAYLOR CO. said:


> They are also, cutting Dealers. We got a Certified letter just this a.m. Weird.


See that does not makes sense?

Someone explain how it helps to cut dealers?


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

rodney482 said:


> See that does not makes sense?
> 
> Someone explain how it helps to cut dealers?


I have no idea...Blew me away.


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## Fasttimez (Aug 23, 2013)

IMO, Mathews has always had the reputation of not having the fastest bows out there, but probably the smoothest drawing, easiest to shoot bows on the market. I believe newer companies like Elite, Obsession, G5 & others have matched Mathews in shootability, while surpassing them in the speed & technology department. I know speed isn't everything, but that's what gets hyped every year is how fast the new bows shoot. There's only so much you can hype how shootable your bow is while making minimal or no changes vs the competition. Mathews still sells plenty of bows, but more & more people are choosing a bow that draws just as smooth & shoots just as easy, while shooting 15-20 fps faster (especially the younger shooters). The customer service has been lacking for a couple years now compared to what it was also. The 300 dealers that got dropped was probably due to low volume of Mathews bow sales in their stores, likely because they picked up another line of bow that people were buying more of. Bottom line is there's just a lot more competition for them now, more companies turning out bows that match the quality & shootability of a Mathews, but offer more in the way of features, speed or customer service. Mathews has done what every company in the world has done, they downsized to reflect changes in the market & manufacturing. By no means is Mathews in trouble or going anywhere, more than likely it's the opposite. The competition has caught up with them & in some places surpassed them. I would bet they are going to pour a ton of money into R&D in the next year or 2 & come back strong with something that's going to make us sit up & pay attention to them again. I hope the people that lost their jobs can find employment fast. This is just my opinion on the entire situation.


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## bowshootga (Aug 3, 2010)

Okay, I see they cut 35 our of about 400 employees. Possibly through the grape vine 150 out of about 400 employees.

Also cut 300 dealers off, anybody know how many dealers they have? 

Not sure how that helps putting less product out there unless they can't afford to have product sitting in 300 stores that don't move many bows a year? Only putting Mathews bows in stores that sell a certain number per year?

I also wonder if we will no longer see a large number of staff Shooter shirts at 3D tournaments? Mathews always seems to have a rather large presents at ASA and IBO.

I am sure this will not be the end of Mathews. Feel bad for all that lost their jobs.

In the end competition is good for us shooters. It means a better product.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

I think if selling is the goal (and this rumor has been out for a while now) everything makes sense. I want to say first that I don't like to see any heartland company sold and bought by a large umbrella corp. which would almost certainly be the ones buying Mathews but it does happen all the time.
If Matt wants to relax and get out of the game as the owner that is his choice. 
The business plan is awesome just like the marketing. First come out with some great innovations for the time, built a giant following, sit on those innovations and show the company can profit without having to dump tons into R&D all the time. Wait till another 2 decades and make a big push with some great products (the Chill R and X and SDX) that are doing very well right before you consolidate everything down the core; the most package able and sellable tidy product (including everything from factory to workers to dealers) to make it a an easy sell and something the big buying corp. wouldn't have to put tons of their own resources into, the sale at a great profit and retire.

Again don't like to see a company founded in Middle America sold to a giant corp. based who-knows-where but it does happen.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

bowshootga said:


> Okay, I see they cut 35 our of about 400 employees. Possibly through the grape vine 150 out of about 400 employees.
> 
> Also cut 300 dealers off, anybody know how many dealers they have?
> 
> ...


300??? That sounds REAL SERIOUS!


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## timboj (Mar 9, 2004)

Companies never seem to trim from the top do they?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Sad, sad, news. No matter how you look at it.


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## Polls822 (Nov 4, 2013)

rattlinman said:


> To your first paragraph, feel free to "label" me a fanboy or whatever you like that makes you feel better. I have my reasons for supporting Mathews and I apologize if you feel I owe you a reason or need to justify my support for an American based company that gives back to the community. I would mention his mission trips, but then you might "label" me a Jesus fanboy... and man would that sting!
> 
> To your second paragraph, I agree with you. We should be concerned with the state of our economy and hope that our fellow Americans can find new opportunities.


So you disagreed with my comment about the fanboys but agree with my comment about the anti's (same people you're disagreeing with). Go figure....


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## bfisherman11 (Oct 16, 2002)

I hate seeing ANY US manufacturer falter and so should all here. Our economy needs strong manufacturing and exports. All companies and citizens are feeling the burden of the last term and a half of this presidents inability fix the economy. Heck, he seems to turn a blind eye to it all. All he does is spend our money. Eventually the bills come due and today Mathews in part may be paying some of that.

OK, politic's aside. I think that is only one factor in play here. I also feel it is the results of two other factors. Strong competition from companies like Elite, Bowtech and maybe Hoyt and what I perceive as a hole in Mathews line up. I did buy a Helim 2yrs ago. It was a better bow than my Legacy as far as smoothness BUT back then I noticed how hard it was to find a Mathews bow with longer Axle to Axle.... To me the short bow phenom is not good for long range stability. Other companies had not strayed so far away and that was smart.

Anyhow, I fell horrible for anyone effected by a layoff. It HURTS you to your core. It feels like rejection. I know, It has happened to me before. I am lucky now in the job I have being fairly stable. I have about 5 -7 yrs left to work before I retire and hope I never feel the feeling of a layoff. 

Don't hate Mathews so much you ignore the American families hurt by their down turn. Hope for Mathews to reorganize, look at and address it's short comings and hire back those they lost.

Bill
(Owner of two Mathews bows)


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## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. *I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a* *process out-sourced to another company *is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.


Its funny but that was the first thing that came into my mind as well. I've never understood why people want to hate an archery company that has done so much to promote the sport, investing with real monies. *The anti's don't have to work to hard when we are shooting ourselves.*


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Reveling in the demise of a standup American company and the resulting loss of income for American families is despicable. All of you haters feel free to move to Liberia.


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## RickNE (Aug 18, 2014)

4IDARCHER said:


> I think if selling is the goal (and this rumor has been out for a while now) everything makes sense. I want to say first that I don't like to see any heartland company sold and bought by a large umbrella corp. which would almost certainly be the ones buying Mathews but it does happen all the time.
> If Matt wants to relax and get out of the game as the owner that is his choice.
> The business plan is awesome just like the marketing. First come out with some great innovations for the time, built a giant following, sit on those innovations and show the company can profit without having to dump tons into R&D all the time. Wait till another 2 decades and make a big push with some great products (the Chill R and X and SDX) that are doing very well right before you consolidate everything down the core; the most package able and sellable tidy product (including everything from factory to workers to dealers) to make it a an easy sell and something the big buying corp. wouldn't have to put tons of their own resources into, the sale at a great profit and retire.
> 
> Again don't like to see a company founded in Middle America sold to a giant corp. based who-knows-where but it does happen.


^^^ This.

I've never heard the rumors but they obviously exist. It may start to make a little sense now. When positioning to sell a company, there are certain things that company must do to make it more attractive and add "market value" to the company. One is cutting costs out of the model. WFR is one way to do that, even if it's not healthy for the growth of the company. Dropping dealers could be the other. I don't know the industry well enough to know what costs are associated with bringing on dealers, but if there are costs involved (and I'm sure there are), it could explain the reduction in dealers.


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## duckmaster46975 (Jan 7, 2007)

I feel for these people who lost their jobs, terrible news with winter and the holidays looming. I doubt Mathews is going anywhere, they will continue to be a profitable company.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

JimmyP said:


> The first of nov I will be ordering my two bows


It is this kind of blind allegiance that has kept them as successful as they are for quite some time.


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

rodney482 said:


> Saw this on another site
> 
> What they're not telling you is that it was more like 150 people. And 2 weeks ago, they fired 4 of their top employees. My buddy works there, he kept his job so far. He says, they are going downhill. And the company may be in the process of being sold. But the news article isn't accurate, it was more than 35 people.


35 people would be 9% workforce reduction. Serious but not earth shattering. 150 would be an almost 40% reduction. That is SERIOUS. 


rodney482 said:


> I wonder if a disgruntled employee released the riser pic we all saw last week?





rodney482 said:


> See that does not makes sense?
> 
> Someone explain how it helps to cut dealers?


Cutting dealers reduces the number of units they have to ship. But ya, doesn't see to make a lot of sense. I hate to see this and I personally have never owned a Mathews.


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

For those that say Mathews will be around for a long time, please wake up.

If you were motivated you could keep yourself busy with hundreds if not thousands of stories of "profitable" companies closing their doors abruptly It only take a couple bad decisions. I personally worked for a company that was profitable for 27 years, only to make a couple bad investments and close their doors abruptly.


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## South Man (Jul 12, 2008)

I hate to see anybody lose their jobs


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## dlamb11 (Feb 27, 2014)

Did anyone actually read the article? There are key words to suggest there are plenty reasons to cut 35 people. 

Article said " all organizational aspects where affected" and went on to say "can't talk about separation agreements" means the ones laid off received a severance package. Would also mean management people where let go. Most joe smos don't get severance packages.

Plainly in business talk that they cut the fat out. Even taking a guess sells reps that aren't needed,businesses that sell low quantity, take those two and you have sales managers that are no longer needed too. There is your 35 people. 

Why is that a bad thing for a company to do? Doesn't mean Mathews is hurting. It's just business. Why would anyone who owns a business keep things that aren't needed? 

Hoyt,PSE,Elite etc.would all do the same thing if some regions sold more than another. No need to keep the low sales. Don't see why the big fuss is about. 

Yes,35 people lost a job,but I'm sure they where well taken care of with severances and will find new jobs easily.


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

dlamb11 said:


> Did anyone actually read the article? There are key words to suggest there are plenty reasons to cut 35 people.
> 
> Article said " all organizational aspects where affected" and went on to say "can't talk about separation agreements" means the ones laid off received a severance package. Would also mean management people where let go. Most joe smos don't get severance packages.
> 
> ...



Joe Smo's get severance packages ALL the time. Big businesses do that ALL the time to reduce costs when they're revenue's and profit's are down from the previous year, but they still have to meet forcasted budgets. I work for a company that is SIGNIFICANTLY larger than Mathews and we've had a rough two years in a rough, and both years, at the end of the physical year, they've cut people, voluntarily and involuntarily. It happens. Some people were cut due to outsourcing or technology replacing their jobs. It happens. It sucks that those people lost their jobs, and hopefully they can bounce back and recover. It sucks that all businesses have to run on a "profit over all" model, but that's how business works.

Whats more shocking to me than letting 35 employees go, is them eliminating 300 dealerships. That's a good chunk. I can think of a dozen or archery shop's within 50 miles of me, and only 3 of them are mathew's shops. Mathews has a ton of good competition out there these days between PSE, Elite, Hoyt, G5/Prime, Strother, Obsession/Xpedition, Darton, ETC. There's a lot of companies dumping a lot of money into advertising, hunting shows, and a lot of dealerships picking up these new up and coming bow brands. Simple principles of marketing in terms of management is that a company must determine if it wants to increase, decrease, or leave its market share the same. From there offerings I have seen recently, I think they're content where they are.


I will note that at this summer Pittsburgh Luke Bryan concert "leave trash in the parking lot" concert, I saw ALOT of Hoyt hats on guys trying to show off their macho country ego's. Not so many Mathew's hats.


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

My guess is the pie in the archery world is simply divided more than before meaning out of 1000 bows mathews used to sell 300 now they sell maybe 150. I would guess they make a strategic change and target dealers with a higher likelyhood of making sales I have seen some pretty low end Mathews dealers aka not pushing the product hard. I would bet this is a realignment of some sort cut out the weak dealers and then add new ones.


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## southgaboy (Jan 28, 2007)

rodney482 said:


> Saw this on another site
> 
> What they're not telling you is that it was more like 150 people. And 2 weeks ago, they fired 4 of their top employees. My buddy works there, he kept his job so far. He says, they are going downhill. And the company may be in the process of being sold. But the news article isn't accurate, it was more than 35 people.


^^^not cool when someone dumps on the competiton with rumours on a public forum.


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## Arbowhunter32 (Sep 9, 2013)

southgaboy said:


> ^^^not cool when someone dumps on the competiton with rumours on a public forum.


I thought the same thing!


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

No bueno


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Polls822 said:


> So you disagreed with my comment about the fanboys but agree with my comment about the anti's (same people you're disagreeing with). Go figure....


I bolded the part I typed that I agreed with you brother, never agreed with your ignorant "fanboy" comments. I don't know how else to help you read. Hang in there, sound it out, you'll get it. :thumbs_up



rattlinman said:


> To your first paragraph, feel free to "label" me a fanboy or whatever you like that makes you feel better. I have my reasons for supporting Mathews and I apologize if you feel I owe you a reason or need to justify my support for an American based company that gives back to the community. I would mention his mission trips, but then you might "label" me a Jesus fanboy... and man would that sting!
> 
> To your second paragraph, I agree with you. * We should be concerned with the state of our economy and hope that our fellow Americans can find new opportunities*.


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

My guess these positions will be replaced with seasonal part time employees due to the employer mandate in the AHCA.


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## bgbowhunter (Oct 30, 2012)

All so the execs can keep their enormous checks they have been acoustimed to


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

I don't like to see anyone lose their jobs, especially in sparta, it's NOT a big city. it's bunch of good ole ******* hillbilly's. I do not like Mathews bows but I do like what those people in that part of WI stand for. Hard work and no shortcuts, drink beer and have good times....hunt and fishing is the life. Mathews INC i couldn't care less about, it's the people that have to find something else when there's not a ton around. I suppose it's close enough to madison, but who want's to live in that Liberal chit hole. Move to La Crosse, i dunno, but having to move for a new job just sucks.


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## kerrye (Sep 1, 2010)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Some of these tools act like mathews inc went to their house and burned it down. Then grabbed their bow and sliced the cables off it. The jealousy and hate spouted is pathetic, you are correct. It's also hilarious. Some are taking their fanboyism and brand WAY too seriously. It's worse than even the Chevy ford debate.


Yup. Prime example of jealousy, hate and fanboy fervor right here.


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## blueglide1 (Jun 29, 2006)

I do not shoot Mathews, I am on another factory staff ,and many know me here.I am truly sorry anyone has to lose a job in this industry.It is tough enough to make a living in this industry,from the manufacturers,down to the Pro shops.I don't want to see any Archery company go out of business,or lose business.The bow companies are driven by their competitions advances each year to bring you, the consumer the very best it can come up with. To enhance your archery needs.Each company strives to out do each other every year,and bring the best to you.Marketing does get arrogant once in awhile, to try and convince you,the consumer to buy their product.But that's just business.So before you bash the company,think of it this way,whats good for our bow companies ,no matter Mathews ,Hoyt,Darton or whatever,a little piece of the archery universe goes away everytime something like this happens.It hurts everyone as a whole.Sometimes its better to stick together.


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## booboo99 (Jul 26, 2014)

Does it suck that those people lost their jobs yeah.
Now the one thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that Mathews discontinued 9 models from their lineup. You cut that much out of your line your need for man power goes down. 
As far as cutting dealers, yeah that sucks as well, but why should a manufacturer keep supplying dealers that either; A) can't sell a certain amount of their products which is required of a dealer, or B) not pay there bills on time etc. Mathews has every right to pull dealerships and put their products in shops that flurish, seems pretty fair to me if you don't perform at your job you get let go.
The person(s) that leaked the photo of the new target riser deserved what they got. 
For the ones who think Mathews is going "away" you may want to think again.


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

Cutting dealers seems odd to me but it must make business sense on paper. Yes, it cuts expenses but also revenue. I guess that explains why a new local archery shop couldn't get them. He has Hoyt and PSE and guys were asking him to pick up Mathews. All was going well and then it was a sudden no go. Too bad. He would have sold a good number. He sold every Hoyt he had in stock the first week of October. I'm guessing 30% of those could have been Mathews sales. The funny thing is that he was under the impression they wouldn't accept him because he didn't want to fill out a credit app. He was going to pay cash for a $15K plus first order and they didn't like that. Now I'm guessing the truth is they didn't want new dealers even though the closest competition is 40 miles away.

Best wishes to the family affected and sadly the later trickle down layoffs that result in that small community.


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## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

highwaynorth said:


> It is this kind of blind allegiance that has kept them as successful as they are for quite some time.


Shoot what you like and be loyal to it, but not to the point of hating another company just because you don't shoot it. This can be said of any loyalist.


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## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

blueglide1 said:


> I do not shoot Mathews, I am on another factory staff ,and many know me here.I am truly sorry anyone has to lose a job in this industry.It is tough enough to make a living in this industry,from the manufacturers,down to the Pro shops.I don't want to see any Archery company go out of business,or lose business.The bow companies are driven by their competitions advances each year to bring you, the consumer the very best it can come up with. To enhance your archery needs.Each company strives to out do each other every year,and bring the best to you.Marketing does get arrogant once in awhile, to try and convince you,the consumer to buy their product.But that's just business.So before you bash the company,think of it this way,whats good for our bow companies ,no matter Mathews ,Hoyt,Darton or whatever,a little piece of the archery universe goes away everytime something like this happens.It hurts everyone as a whole.*Sometimes its better to stick together.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Yes indeed!


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## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

booboo99 said:


> Does it suck that those people lost their jobs yeah.
> *Now the one thing nobody has mentioned is the fact that Mathews discontinued 9 models from their lineup. You cut that much out of your line your need for man power goes down.*
> As far as cutting dealers, yeah that sucks as well, but why should a manufacturer keep supplying dealers that either; A) can't sell a certain amount of their products which is required of a dealer, or B) not pay there bills on time etc. Mathews has every right to pull dealerships and put their products in shops that flurish, seems pretty fair to me if you don't perform at your job you get let go.
> The person(s) that leaked the photo of the new target riser deserved what they got.
> ...


Another excellent point!


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

OK, I'll blame it on Obama. lain:


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## crazyhoyt (May 30, 2011)

I truly hope it's just a business decision and not the decline of yet another Great American Company. My thoughts to all those who lost there jobs, (an worse yet they were probably jobs they loved) I hope they all find work soon. There's nothing worse than seeing good honest hardworking people get the shaft after working so hard.


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## Msokol13 (Jul 24, 2005)

Rat Trapper said:


> While I feel sorry for those who got laid off, I do not feel sorry for the company. Worst customer service I have ever seen. Back in 2013 I had a C4 and had questions so I went on line and from their website used contact us. After couple weeks and no reply I did it again with same results. So I called them what I was told is that if I want an answer to my question I had to go through a dealer??? Well that bow went down the road and I bought a Darton 2014 DS4514, I like this bow way better than the C4. I met the Darton Sales manager and staff at the Deer and turkey show in Madison, WI last April. Unlike Mathews these people like to answer questions and are more than willing to help. I feel Mathews bows have always been over priced.



Lol, I picked up the phone. Called and left a voicemail for Dave and less than an hour later I had a return phone call from him answering my question.....


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Msokol13 said:


> Lol, I picked up the phone. Called and left a voicemail for Dave and less than an hour later I had a return phone call from him answering my question.....


He is either unintelligent or one of those unrealistic "customers" that can never be pleased. You call any dealer besides elite or a couple other small companies they will do the same thing. Go through a dealer. I bet it wasnt a question, he was probably trying to get something.


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## Kevin Dahlen (Oct 17, 2014)

When a company spends all the money marketing and then doesn't score well in reviews; that makes some people annoyed, and certainly is not pathetic. Go to their website and they show three guys winning shooting titles. Go to Strother, Obsession, G5, Bowtech et al and you see bows. That type of self promotion can create "haters".


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

Heard from my dealer that he use to have a mathews and a mission rep. This year just combined into one so may be just getting rid of duplication in the two


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

Mathews sales are pretty dead in canada


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

Hoytalpha35 said:


> Mathews sales are pretty dead in canada


Canada is huge , so how would you know?


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Elections have consequences.


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## Less is More (Nov 15, 2013)

DonnieBaker said:


> What Mathews is to Sparta......Oshkosh Corp. is to Oshkosh. OC just laid off 300 and with another 75 in December (not all production positions). I hate hearing about layoffs. I'll get to a point in a minute or two.
> 
> I cant stress enough how we as parents need to do make sure our children have a solid educational foundation in Science, Engineering, Technology, and especially Math. STEM is the heart, the lungs, the blood of our stable economic future. Right now, we're flinging wood arrows out of a sears catalog recurve....yeah, we'll put some meat in the freezer I suppose.....developing countries such as India are also flinging wood arrows out of recurves, however, they're educating their next generation on how to develop laser tracking carbon arrows, tipped with multiple slick tricks :set1_thinking:, out of an alien alloy, quadruple binary, mauser-action, rotary magazine-fed killing machine...while sitting in a blind that has a cloaking device - aimed square at us. You see where I'm going here......?
> 
> ...


I don't know who this guy is but I wish I did!.....Bravo!!!!....You are "spot on"!
MPL


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## rjack (Jan 14, 2007)

Is this any different than Martin, Bear, High Country, PSE (when Pete left the helm briefly)..etc. They were all in deep trouble and have or are making rebounds. 

Companies make poor choices and sometimes the customers react with buying a better product. Supply and demand is in constant flux and in my opinion Mathews simply had missteps and missed the market for the past couple years. Besides hard working Americans loosing jobs, I'm glad Mathews is in a rough spot. If they want to survive they must do something innovative and innovation helps the entire industry. Bottom line is Mathews will innovate or close. If anyone thinks differently, you need to read about Pete Sheply and how he saved PSE. 

I wish the best to Mathews but the company heads need to look in the mirror to see the problem. The slow and saturated market is only one piece of thier financial issues.


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## Mathews4ever (Jan 13, 2007)

Too bad f i r those who lost thee jobs and i am with everyone else I used to love Mathews hate t g em now there cs is horrible compared to small companies and i think Levi leaving hurt them a lot


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

hidden danger said:


> Canada is huge , so how would you know?


All Mathews go through two distributors, and I'm told there pretty stagnant through one. 

Lots of competition. Hoyt is what you see the most of up here with a few other brands.


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## FlyfishPA (May 31, 2007)

Last several years, I don't think, have been kind to Mathews. The Chill X has been met with acclaim, but that is the first model in a while that was well received. Couple that with the single cam patent ending soon (in a year or two, I think I read) and upstarts like Obsession, Xpedition and Elite would likely cut into their market share.

Seems like an odd time to cut staff, with new model introductions just around the corner. If they are being sold, maybe the new owner wanted the personnel issues cleaned up before the settlement, so that they aren't seen as the bad guys.

As for the few people that seem to be reveling in others' misery - you are just morally and socially bankrupt.


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## Drcoffee (Jan 10, 2011)

Obamacare?


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

After reading all five pages of this gibberish,Obama and making a crap product with a back wall made of sponges sound like the top two things most are pointing fingers at....lol


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## snowho (Jul 2, 2012)

DonnieBaker said:


> What Mathews is to Sparta......Oshkosh Corp. is to Oshkosh. OC just laid off 300 and with another 75 in December (not all production positions). I hate hearing about layoffs. I'll get to a point in a minute or two.
> 
> I cant stress enough how we as parents need to do make sure our children have a solid educational foundation in Science, Engineering, Technology, and especially Math. STEM is the heart, the lungs, the blood of our stable economic future. Right now, we're flinging wood arrows out of a sears catalog recurve....yeah, we'll put some meat in the freezer I suppose.....developing countries such as India are also flinging wood arrows out of recurves, however, they're educating their next generation on how to develop laser tracking carbon arrows, tipped with multiple slick tricks :set1_thinking:, out of an alien alloy, quadruple binary, mauser-action, rotary magazine-fed killing machine...while sitting in a blind that has a cloaking device - aimed square at us. You see where I'm going here......?
> 
> ...


Those layoffs are part of the military division but keep your head high, the Kenyan is about to ramp up the war machine again soon. War employs lots of Americans.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Your company sucks or your allow yourself to be screwed if you think the health care act effects jobs. If you sympathize with your company, they will take leverage. Never in history have workers empowered their employers to cut benefits because they pity the company due to legislation. Our work force are morons. Party loyalty before themselves. Crazy, perhaps educate yourself, understand the law and don't allow them to treat you like sheep.


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## snowho (Jul 2, 2012)

COArrow said:


> Your company sucks or your allow yourself to be screwed if you think the health care act effects jobs. If you sympathize with your company, they will take leverage. Never in history have workers empowered their employers to cut benefits because they pity the company due to legislation. Our work force are morons. Party loyalty before themselves. Crazy, perhaps educate yourself, understand the law and don't allow them to treat you like sheep.


People voting against thier own best interest is extremely common these days.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

People are excepting what they are told without actually reading a thing. Nothing to do with voting.


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

Maybe Matt should have put the millions of dollars he sent to those missions around the world in the bank for a rainy day. I do not understand how a bow company that charges four to five times the cost of making something can have financial issues. The only answer is that people are fed up with the ridiculous price tags have become the norm not just with bows but with everything. We have become a society of have and have nots which is exactly the type of society our forefathers sought refuge from. That refuge became known as America. Bipartisan government, special interest groups and big business have ruined this country. The needs of the few can never outweigh the needs of the many. I don't believe there is one American who would say they are happy with the way our country is ran. Where in the constitution does it say that legislation gets passed based on whatever special interest group ponys up the most money? Democracy is of the people by the people and for the people. How can we say we live in a democracy when every American is in disagreement with our government? Big business runs America. Anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot. The funny thing is that big business are idiots too. Their greed has and is continuing to destroy them due to overinflated price tags of their product. People are fed up and are not going to keep footing the bill for the ceo's $20 million dollar a year salary. A life isn't worth $20 million dollars so for anyone to think they deserve that kind of paycheck is lost. How doesn't this relate to Mathews laying off 35 people you ask? Simple, all companies with overinflated price tags will always fall. Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Mathews has realized this and hence have restructured their organization. The only problem is that if this restructuring doesn't involve a price break to the consumers then it's all for nothing. I love how businesses blame the economy for having to make cuts. What the headline should say is "we are a bunch of greedy *******s who overinflated our product and took ourselves out of the market so now we have to lay off people". Companies can't charge more than what people make. I mean technically they can charge whatever they want, but I don't think that's is working for them. I got into archery in 1994. Then a top of the line bow was $500-$600. Now the same bow is $1200-$1400. I don't belive that to many peoples salary has doubled since 1994. I also don't believe it cost anymore to make bows today than it did in 1994. If anything it cost less. Wake up America


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

COArrow said:


> *Your company sucks or your allow yourself to be screwed if you think the health care act effects jobs*. If you sympathize with your company, they will take leverage. Never in history have workers empowered their employers to cut benefits because they pity the company due to legislation. Our work force are morons. Party loyalty before themselves. Crazy, perhaps educate yourself, understand the law and don't allow them to treat you like sheep.


You are delusional.



COArrow said:


> People are excepting what they are told without actually reading a thing. Nothing to do with voting.


You haven't read the law.


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## rjack (Jan 14, 2007)

snowho said:


> Those layoffs are part of the military division but keep your head high, the Kenyan is about to ramp up the war machine again soon. War employs lots of Americans.


Not with our current President. The Army is cutting 100,000 and the Air Force just cut 25,000 personnel due to the President's DoD budget. Mathews is not the only one letting hard working Americans go to the unemployment line.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

DonnieBaker said:


> What Mathews is to Sparta......Oshkosh Corp. is to Oshkosh. OC just laid off 300 and with another 75 in December (not all production positions). I hate hearing about layoffs. I'll get to a point in a minute or two.
> 
> I cant stress enough how we as parents need to do make sure our children have a solid educational foundation in Science, Engineering, Technology, and especially Math. STEM is the heart, the lungs, the blood of our stable economic future. Right now, we're flinging wood arrows out of a sears catalog recurve....yeah, we'll put some meat in the freezer I suppose.....developing countries such as India are also flinging wood arrows out of recurves, however, they're educating their next generation on how to develop laser tracking carbon arrows, tipped with multiple slick tricks :set1_thinking:, out of an alien alloy, quadruple binary, mauser-action, rotary magazine-fed killing machine...while sitting in a blind that has a cloaking device - aimed square at us. You see where I'm going here......?
> 
> ...


Great post.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

and all of this cause Levi left? LOL

From what little I know about the Sparta area I'm afraid those folks laid off will be hard pressed to find a job as good as the one they had to give up. Hope things work out for them.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

-bowfreak- said:


> You are delusional.
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't read the law.


No, I am not. People are empathic to companies cutting their benefits. That is delusional. I have read and understand the law, my company also has added benefits with raising cost to employees.


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## DonnieBaker (Nov 18, 2005)

carlosii said:


> and all of this cause Levi left? LOL
> 
> From what little I know about the Sparta area I'm afraid those folks laid off will be hard pressed to find a job as good as the one they had to give up. Hope things work out for them.


There is some industry over on that side of the state and it's proximity to the Twin Cities, however, the eastern side from Milwaukee to GB has the largest manufacturing base. I can only hope that they can find a suitable replacement and use the opportunity to upgrade their skills. I wonder if Mathews is working with the local chambers to assist the affected employees - that would lessen the blow somewhat. If they're as charitable to their employees as they are to other organizations.......things might work out for the better.

Mathews is either gearing up for an overhaul or is going to be purchased, IMO.


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## Strodav (Apr 25, 2012)

No question Matthews makes great bows, but the competition is getting intense. Look at all the excitement over what Obsession, Elite and PSE have done in the last year or two, not to mention the newcomers like New Breed and Xpedition. Matthews is becoming just one of the bunch instead of THE alternative to Hoyt. They'll need to differentiate themselves in this new marketplace. That usually means bringing out innovative products under strict cost controls. To me, their 2015 lineup will signal if they are going to stay competitive, or fall into the pack.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

COArrow said:


> No, I am not. People are empathic to companies cutting their benefits. That is delusional. I have read and understand the law, my company also has added benefits with raising cost to employees.


Congratulations. It is amazing that your company figured out a way to add benefits and COST. Amazing.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

-bowfreak- said:


> Congratulations. It is amazing that your company figured out a way to add benefits and COST. Amazing.


My typo, should have read with no cost.


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## 17ghk (Nov 11, 2009)

sucks to hear, but I wont pay $800 or more for a bow


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## HANGum HIGH (Mar 9, 2007)

Things like this happen all the time. Does not matter who the company is. I work for a great company now, doesn't mean they have never had to lay people off before or that they never will again. Smart companies are getting smarter about their budgets. Just a sign of the times.


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## mathews758 (May 30, 2014)

rodney482 said:


> Saw this on another site
> 
> What they're not telling you is that it was more like 150 people. And 2 weeks ago, they fired 4 of their top employees. My buddy works there, he kept his job so far. He says, they are going downhill. And the company may be in the process of being sold. But the news article isn't accurate, it was more than 35 people.


I don't know who your "buddy" is but this is absolutely false...


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## samhel (Dec 31, 2010)

Boubou said:


> Well, I have been trying for 9 weeks to get rock mods for my ChillR with no success. One of those cases where the customer wants to buy and the company is clearly not interested in selling.
> Definitely my last Mathews


Sounds like a dealer/shop issue.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Where there is smoke....


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## Mr.Wiggles (Dec 29, 2007)

Take your complaints to your nearest mathews retailer.lol


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

I just email an offer to buy Mathews as a whole, haven't got an answer to my offer yet. However, if its accepted, I will immediately hire those 35 people back and do away with all the waffle irons.....:mg:
jk


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

mathews758 said:


> I don't know who your "buddy" is but this is absolutely false...


Not my buddy, copied it from another site.

Do you work for Mathews?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

rodney482 said:


> Saw this on another site
> 
> What they're not telling you is that it was more like 150 people. And 2 weeks ago, they fired 4 of their top employees. My buddy works there, he kept his job so far. He says, they are going downhill. And the company may be in the process of being sold. But the news article isn't accurate, it was more than 35 people.


I think you should cite your source if you're going to bash your competition. Doesn't create a very positive image for your company.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

carlosii said:


> I think you should cite your source if you're going to bash your competition. Doesn't create a very positive image for your company.


Don't think he bashed them, just passed on more information. If he bashed their products maybe bad taste, but seems in line with what is taking place with the company.


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## Red57 (Oct 20, 2008)

mathews758 said:


> I don't know who your "buddy" is but this is absolutely false...


Glad you became an AT member, you should have joined earlier . Us Dyed in the wool Mathews shooters could have used a listening ear for sometime now . Not all of us like roller cable guards & short ATA bows . Only a few short years ago there was no need for split limbs & 2 cams , now it's pretty much the platform they are pushing. I love the bows , but when the big dogs bark it's time to listen .... I'm just saying.


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

Boonerbrad said:


> There are also 300 dealers that now won't have Mathews bows to sell and profit from. This layoff runs much deeper than what is seen on the surface. You think sales were way down at Mathews this year?


How in the world did you get that out of 35 peole being laid off. They didn't shut the com pay down. They cut a few positions. Bows will get shipped like always.


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## Nubster (Oct 22, 2013)

Billincamo said:


> How in the world did you get that out of 35 peole being laid off. They didn't shut the com pay down. They cut a few positions. Bows will get shipped like always.


I don't know if you read the entire thread but a few pages back it was said that in addition to the 35 layoffs, Matthews was also pulling their bows from a bunch of dealers.


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## kanga (Dec 8, 2009)

I live in Australia and in the last few weeks I have been trying to buy a set of non-warranty limbs for a 2014 Mathews bow. I first up tried to buy them from two Mathews dealers here in Australia, one being their official importer. Both dealers treated me with disdain, they simply didn't want to know me. I then resorted to contacting Mathews direct, describing in detail how their dealers treated me. Dave from Mathews responded in less than 48 hours in a very friendly and professional manner and over the course of several more emails, the problem was sorted through another Australian dealer who they signed up in the last few weeks. I should have the new limbs next week.

During my discussions with Dave from Mathews, I pointed out that they are likely missing out on business from people like me who do all the work on their bows rather than going through a dealer. (a middle man who expects to be paid for working on your bow) I suggested that spare parts could be sold directly to clients at a very reasonable price, but would come with a very limited warranty. I think there are more and more archers who do prefer to do their own work and IMO, it's another side to archery that is extremely enjoyable and rewarding. I do however accept that the vast majority of archers are people who don't do their own work and a good shop is their best option. The trouble is, there are a few shops out there that are NOT good and these shops can be a BIG headache for bow companies as well as archers.

I feel for the Mathews employees who got laid off and hope they find employment soon. I also hope that Dave was not one of those employees as he is a true professional.


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## rackfreak210 (Feb 14, 2011)

Well.... What do you expect when you make the same ole' same ole' EVERY YEAR! I mean c'mon people! The same "waffle" riser since the z7. Hoyt is no better! They have 75 names for basically the same exact cam they have had for the last 6-7 years!They both have to ride the coat tails of innovations from other manufacturers. If i were to buy a new bow any time soon, the last companies i would look at, would be mathews and hoyt! And i have owned mathews, hoyt,high country,elite,bowtech, and Pse. Is it just me or should a bow that you spend a 1000$+ for have adjustable draw mods at the least or give you all the mods for every length!??? C'mon!! Bull****!


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Billincamo said:


> How in the world did you get that out of 35 peole being laid off. They didn't shut the com pay down. They cut a few positions. Bows will get shipped like always.


I love when people do this read the entire thread before you pop off
(a dealer earlier said he got a certified letter saying they were canceling dealerships )


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

kanga said:


> I feel for the Mathews employees who got laid off and hope they find employment soon. I also hope that Dave was not one of those employees as he is a true professional.


Emailed with a Dave at customer service Friday, so.....


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

Great company, that I can say I am proud to be an employee of for ten years and counting! It's aweful that American people have to loose their jobs, but news flash the archery industry is very lucky that the industry has been strong when the economy not so much so. How many other archery manufacturers have cut jobs with no attention? Mathews last I heard employeed close to 400 people, with their lastest machining facility opening just a couple years ago. I visited that very new machining facility the same year it opened and saw some state of the art machinery that was very eye opening. 
I think it is an important part of this conversation that is generally left out, is their new robots. That year I visited they were just implementing an Italian Robot that made limbs all day long, perfect limbs I must say,and there was plans to purchase more of those robots. What does machinery like this do? Eliminates jobs and more terribly high healthcare costs. 
People need to relax let these companies make business decisions and move on, we hope that those employees find jobs and that maybe Mathews can call them back around the new year when the 2-3 new bows they come out with blow the socks off the competition!


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## DeerCook (Jan 23, 2006)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Great company, that I can say I am proud to be an employee of for ten years and counting! It's aweful that American people have to loose their jobs, but news flash the archery industry is very lucky that the industry has been strong when the economy not so much so. How many other archery manufacturers have cut jobs with no attention? Mathews last I heard employeed close to 400 people, with their lastest machining facility opening just a couple years ago. I visited that very new machining facility the same year it opened and saw some state of the art machinery that was very eye opening.
> I think it is an important part of this conversation that is generally left out, is their new robots. That year I visited they were just implementing an Italian Robot that made limbs all day long, perfect limbs I must say,and there was plans to purchase more of those robots. What does machinery like this do? Eliminates jobs and more terribly high healthcare costs.
> People need to relax let these companies make business decisions and move on, we hope that those employees find jobs and that maybe Mathews can call them back around the new year when the 2-3 new bows they come out with blow the socks off the competition!




I hope that anybody else that responds to this thread reads this first...................


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

Right now everything is speculation, the only truth is they laid off 35 employees due to financial reasons. Businesses do this everyday all over the world. They have to change and find new strategies for the way forward in whatever market they are in. I would bet there is not one single reason to pin this on...I am sure it has many different reasons compounded into one big decision. 

Here is the actual statement from Terry Lee, the HR manager at Mathews Archery:
“Due to economic conditions we have been forced to make significant organizational changes. This has resulted in the reduction of our workforce by approximately 35 full time employees. It has been a difficult process for all involved, but critical for our business to return to a healthy financial condition.”

It has to be hard for Mathews right now....the amount of bow manufacturers is growing, better products are on the market at the same price points, many people have started doing their own bow work, small business costs are rising year by year and sales are way down (at least in my area they are). All this equals smaller profit margins on the monthly reports. Once a trend is identified, businesses have to implement control measures to reverse the trend. 

If this decision keeps their head above water and keeps them putting out bows....I applaud the leadership of Mathews. Business is business, at the end of the day there is only one bottom line, money.


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## cmhall14 (Apr 8, 2013)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Great company, that I can say I am proud to be an employee of for ten years and counting! It's aweful that American people have to loose their jobs, but news flash the archery industry is very lucky that the industry has been strong when the economy not so much so. How many other archery manufacturers have cut jobs with no attention? Mathews last I heard employeed close to 400 people, with their lastest machining facility opening just a couple years ago. I visited that very new machining facility the same year it opened and saw some state of the art machinery that was very eye opening.
> I think it is an important part of this conversation that is generally left out, is their new robots. That year I visited they were just implementing an Italian Robot that made limbs all day long, perfect limbs I must say,and there was plans to purchase more of those robots. What does machinery like this do? Eliminates jobs and more terribly high healthcare costs.
> People need to relax let these companies make business decisions and move on, we hope that those employees find jobs and that maybe Mathews can call them back around the new year when the 2-3 new bows they come out with blow the socks off the competition!


As a fellow machinist it really sucks to see peoples jobs going to robots. I feel bad for them and hope they find jobs soon.


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## JMBIGORANGE (Dec 31, 2013)

Wow...I just read this thread. What a waste of time.


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## sittingbull (Jan 19, 2003)

rodney482 said:


> Saw this on another site
> 
> What they're not telling you is that it was more like 150 people. And 2 weeks ago, they fired 4 of their top employees. My buddy works there, he kept his job so far. He says, they are going downhill. And the company may be in the process of being sold. But the news article isn't accurate, it was more than 35 people.



Rodney...do you have a link to the source?


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## Livetohunt (Jan 1, 2005)

Kevin Dahlen said:


> When a company spends all the money marketing and then doesn't score well in reviews; that makes some people annoyed, and certainly is not pathetic. Go to their website and they show three guys winning shooting titles. Go to Strother, Obsession, G5, Bowtech et al and you see bows. That type of self promotion can create "haters".


Why would mathews showing three guys winning titles create hatred unless the hatred is already there? I went to a few bow manufactures like u said and see the same type of self promotion.

Hoyt-thier slogan is "Get Serious,Get Hoyt"(implying the rest are a joke)and also has pictures of tournament archers with arms up in victory

Obsession- "Fastest bows in the world"

Expedition-"They are the finest designs available"

Martin- "The most accurate bows in the world"

Bear-thier slogan is "walk with legends"

Wanted to go to Bowtech website but my old computer would not open up thier web site


So why do u think mathews is creating hatred through self promotion and not the others?


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## FlyfishPA (May 31, 2007)

cmhall14 said:


> As a fellow machinist it really sucks to see peoples jobs going to robots. I feel bad for them and hope they find jobs soon.


The use of robotics has, and I believe, will continue to lead to more onshoring of production in the US. As costs climb for Chinese manufacturing (shipping costs, labor, etc), the use of robotics and cheaper energy costs (natural gas) will hopefully result in more US investment. Economists are predicting that "if" the regulatory and political climate allows it, that the use of robotics will drive down the hourly labor costs so that the US can be competitive once again, in the very near future.

While that will hurt traditional machinists, those that embrace the change and learn how to work with the new technology could do very well.


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## Livetohunt (Jan 1, 2005)

Kevin Dahlen said:


> When a company spends all the money marketing and then doesn't score well in reviews; that makes some people annoyed, and certainly is not pathetic. Go to their website and they show three guys winning shooting titles. Go to Strother, Obsession, G5, Bowtech et al and you see bows. That type of self promotion can create "haters".


Oh ya I also went to the PSE website and although they do not have pics of someone winning a shooting title they do have a pic of a Drury with a trophy monster buck.What is the difference there,why is this self promotion not creating hatred but mathews showing a tournament trophy winner is?


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Livetohunt said:


> Why would mathews showing three guys winning titles create hatred unless the hatred is already there? I went to a few bow manufactures like u said and see the same type of self promotion.
> 
> Hoyt-thier slogan is "Get Serious,Get Hoyt"(implying the rest are a joke)and also has pictures of tournament archers with arms up in victory
> 
> ...


Simply because this site is dominated by primarily hoyt fanboys, and a good chunk of elite fanboys. This hate isn't near as bad outside of this site. At least in my experience


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## Nubster (Oct 22, 2013)

Livetohunt said:


> Why would mathews showing three guys winning titles create hatred unless the hatred is already there? I went to a few bow manufactures like u said and see the same type of self promotion.
> 
> Hoyt-thier slogan is "Get Serious,Get Hoyt"(implying the rest are a joke)and also has pictures of tournament archers with arms up in victory
> 
> ...


Bowtech - "Refuse to follow"

Elite - "The world's most shootable bow"


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## mxtuner1 (Mar 16, 2011)

Maitland...Oh ya we sold


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## Loganlee (May 11, 2014)

Not here to bash any one company but if they lowered there price range for the middle and lower class more bows would be sold. A lot of ppl just have to settle for a cheap bow for finance reasons


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## timboj (Mar 9, 2004)

snowho said:


> People voting against thier own best interest is extremely common these days.



Yep


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Loganlee said:


> Not here to bash any one company but if they lowered there price range for the middle and lower class more bows would be sold. A lot of ppl just have to settle for a cheap bow for finance reasons


Whole mission line from Mathews, hoyt charger, several PSEs, there are several options for those who don't want to pay for/can't afford flagships


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Living in the area of Sparta, knowing some that work there and gave a few that work for me used to work there.

I keep hearing the same thing, since Matt turned over daily operations things have changed.

Sad whenever anyone loses a job. Not sure in what areas of the company the layoffs were from. I'm sure I will hear soon.


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

Garceau said:


> Living in the area of Sparta, knowing some that work there and gave a few that work for me used to work there.
> 
> I keep hearing the same thing, since Matt turned over daily operations things have changed.
> 
> Sad whenever anyone loses a job. Not sure in what areas of the company the layoffs were from. I'm sure I will hear soon.


I've heard the same exact info.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

trucker3573 said:


> Yeah right....Some of us have a life..read 16 pages about a company laying off 35 people. .no thanks.


It's 7 pages not 16
just saying


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Loganlee said:


> Not here to bash any one company but if they lowered there price range for the middle and lower class more bows would be sold. A lot of ppl just have to settle for a cheap bow for finance reasons


they do its called the mission line made by Mathews


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## Kevin Dahlen (Oct 17, 2014)

Livetohunt said:


> Why would mathews showing three guys winning titles create hatred unless the hatred is already there? I went to a few bow manufactures like u said and see the same type of self promotion.
> 
> Hoyt-thier slogan is "Get Serious,Get Hoyt"(implying the rest are a joke)and also has pictures of tournament archers with arms up in victory
> 
> ...


I think both Hoyt and Mathews annoy people by their seemingly endless self promotion, and both the companies and the shooters telling everyone they are the best bows on the planet, when we all here know they are just another one of the top bow makers. I was at Bass Pro the other day and the tech was telling me how great Hoyt's are and how Bear's are junk. I wasn't annoyed because I own a Bear bow (I have a Bowtech), I was annoyed by the guy because he sells Bear bows, and he doesn't even know they are just as good as Hoyt's, or at least on the same playing field? 

I was watching a hunting show, the guy shoots a nice buck, turns to the camera and screams, "That's why I shoot a Mathews!"

It's just a bit tiring is all I'm saying, and I can see how "haters" could develop.


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## Livetohunt (Jan 1, 2005)

Kevin Dahlen said:


> I think both Hoyt and Mathews annoy people by their seemingly endless self promotion, and both the companies and the shooters telling everyone they are the best bows on the planet, when we all here know they are just another one of the top bow makers. I was at Bass Pro the other day and the tech was telling me how great Hoyt's are and how Bear's are junk. I wasn't annoyed because I own a Bear bow (I have a Bowtech), I was annoyed by the guy because he sells Bear bows, and he doesn't even know they are just as good as Hoyt's, or at least on the same playing field?
> 
> I was watching a hunting show, the guy shoots a nice buck, turns to the camera and screams, "That's why I shoot a Mathews!"
> 
> It's just a bit tiring is all I'm saying, and I can see how "haters" could develop.


I think if it is your mind that mathews bother you then u notice every little thing they do. I personally seen someone say the same about almost every brand out there in a hunting show when they shoot a buck.


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## frostmas15 (Nov 26, 2012)

I can't stand the Mathews is going out of business BS. Mathews is out of Wisconsin where I live and this year crossbows were legalized in WI. I would imagine that no bow companies are doing great right now. I've spoken to many bow shops around here and they have all said that crossbows are outselling compounds about 10 to 1. This is probably part to do with not being able to get a top of the line bow for under $1000 anymore and with todays technology jobs are being cut everywhere! Just because an archery business cuts jobs it means their going out of business?? But if some other random business did it means nothing. Mathews has been building quality equipment for many years and continues to do so and will be around a very long time. It's absolute stupidity for someone to say that Mathews deals crap equipment and treat people like garbage. There is a reason they are one of the top selling bow companies ever.


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

Nubster said:


> I don't know if you read the entire thread but a few pages back it was said that in addition to the 35 layoffs, Matthews was also pulling their bows from a bunch of dealers.


Where did that information come from (some idiot with a computer on AT I'm sure). This would make no sense at all, sales are down so lets pull dealerships to make sure sales stay low. Why would anyone believe such ignorant rumors. What ever happened to common sense in this country.


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

sittingbull said:


> Rodney...do you have a link to the source?


 Yeah he found it on "Idiot/rumors.com"


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## kwfarmnranch (Sep 24, 2012)

A lot of people seem to be complaining about Mathews being overpriced in my area they are the cheapest and imo the best value.
Hoyt Faktor....$ 899
Bowtech RPM360 ....$949
Obsession Evo....$ 849
Elite 35....$ 849
Mathews Creed and Chill R....$799
As for x bows they are here to make some people some money, get the tv hunters some more sponsors, lazy up and degrade the sport of archery as we know it. I am a bowhunter and while I dont care for gun hunting I am okay with the tv guys doing it but when they break out the x bows, Im done watching them. I do pray for the people at Mathews who have lost their jobs and I have been very disappointed in some of the hateful and uncaring comments I have read on here by all the Mathews haters......Something to ponder on your way to work tomorrow..IS THAT WE ALL HAVE COMPANIES AND PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HAVE 1 MISSION AND THAT IS TO RID THEM OF THE NEED OF HAVING TO HAVE YOU AS THEIR EMPLOYEE, PEOPLE ARE BEING PAID MORE THAN YOU MAKE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CUT YOUR POSITION IN EVERY PLACE OF BUSINESS IN AMERICA SO REMEMBER HOW SOME OF YOU HAVE ACTED WHEN IT HAPPENS TO YOU.... BECAUSE IT IS COMING !!!


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

Kevin Dahlen said:


> I think both Hoyt and Mathews annoy people by their seemingly endless self promotion, and both the companies and the shooters telling everyone they are the best bows on the planet, when we all here know they are just another one of the top bow makers. I was at Bass Pro the other day and the tech was telling me how great Hoyt's are and how Bear's are junk. I wasn't annoyed because I own a Bear bow (I have a Bowtech), I was annoyed by the guy because he sells Bear bows, and he doesn't even know they are just as good as Hoyt's, or at least on the same playing field?
> 
> I was watching a hunting show, the guy shoots a nice buck, turns to the camera and screams, "That's why I shoot a Mathews!"
> 
> ...


No other companies market there bows as the best because marketing your product as the second best or average works so well. Are you serious, every manufacturer thinks and markets there bows as the best. Call Pete Shepley and I'm sure he will tell you how there bows a just pretty good instead of this from his website: "PSE Archery | The World's Best Bows" and this from Elite's website: " ELITE the world’s most SHOOTABLE bow!". As for "endless self promotion" should they be promoting someone else's bows??????????? in their advertising that cost a small fortune.


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## Nubster (Oct 22, 2013)

Billincamo said:


> Where did that information come from (some idiot with a computer on AT I'm sure). This would make no sense at all, sales are down so lets pull dealerships to make sure sales stay low. Why would anyone believe such ignorant rumors. What ever happened to common sense in this country.


I couldn't tell you where the info came from but that's why it's being repeated several pages later.


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## highwaynorth (Feb 17, 2005)

frostmas15 said:


> I can't stand the Mathews is going out of business BS. Mathews is out of Wisconsin where I live and this year crossbows were legalized in WI. I would imagine that no bow companies are doing great right now. I've spoken to many bow shops around here and they have all said that crossbows are outselling compounds about 10 to 1. This is probably part to do with not being able to get a top of the line bow for under $1000 anymore and with todays technology jobs are being cut everywhere! Just because an archery business cuts jobs it means their going out of business?? But if some other random business did it means nothing. Mathews has been building quality equipment for many years and continues to do so and will be around a very long time. It's absolute stupidity for someone to say that Mathews deals crap equipment and treat people like garbage. There is a reason they are one of the top selling bow companies ever.


Cross bows are just as high priced if not more than regular bows. So I don't buy the they're
Selling cross bows because they are cheaper theory.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

when Levi left I knew there would be more to follow....


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## Nubster (Oct 22, 2013)

bigbucks170 said:


> when Levi left I knew there would be more to follow....


Makes you wonder why Levi _really_ left.


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## Kevin Dahlen (Oct 17, 2014)

Livetohunt said:


> I think if it is your mind that mathews bother you then u notice every little thing they do. I personally seen someone say the same about almost every brand out there in a hunting show when they shoot a buck.


You certainly have the right to your opinion. Some were just asking why there seems to be so many haters, and I was just trying to provide input on that subject. You can say, that it's just me, but that goes against the original question as to why there seems to be some many people who do not like them, and are passionate, and likely over-passionate about it.


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## Loganlee (May 11, 2014)

I know there are cheaper lines but I'm talking bout the ppl that want that energy 35, the rpm 360, the chill R, the Hoyt factor etc


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## Kevin Dahlen (Oct 17, 2014)

Billincamo said:


> No other companies market there bows as the best because marketing your product as the second best or average works so well. Are you serious, every manufacturer thinks and markets there bows as the best. Call Pete Shepley and I'm sure he will tell you how there bows a just pretty good instead of this from his website: "PSE Archery | The World's Best Bows" and this from Elite's website: " ELITE the world’s most SHOOTABLE bow!". As for "endless self promotion" should they be promoting someone else's bows??????????? in their advertising that cost a small fortune.


I'm not saying they shouldn't say they are #1. You miss my point. The problem is they spend more money telling me they are nobody one then making a bow that actually is #1.


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## stillrunnin (Oct 6, 2009)

Mathews catch up if you can


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## WTM (Jan 24, 2013)

rattlinman said:


> I too have to chuckle, but not for the reasons many have stated above. I chuckle at people who see this the impending death of an American company that has had tremendous success in the archery industry. I chuckle that 35 jobs eliminated by either new technology replacing process steps or simply a process out-sourced to another company is seen as downfall of "arrogance" from a company that has gave more back to the sport than anyone else. They dump major money into kids programs and national competitions to draw more people into our sport, and yet many I you that claim to love archery, revel that they "had it coming".
> I hate to hear that any Americans lost their jobs and I hope they find other opportunities soon, but Mathews will be fine, they will continue to build excellent archery equipment, and will continue to give back to the sport that we love in order to keep it going and growing in the future.



I read somewhere that the profits from the Mission line and the licensing of lost camo is donated to Christian Missionaries. If this is true, how many other archery companies donate the profits from half of there line to anything? There seems to be a lot of hate around here because of a marketing theme, don't all companies claim their products are the best? Whether you like Mathews bows or not, they make a good product and have great customer service.

Disclaimer: I do NOT shoot a Mathews bow at the present.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

I love my 4 Mathews bows and wish the company great success. Looking forward to see what the future brings.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

13bonatter69 said:


> I just email an offer to buy Mathews as a whole, haven't got an answer to my offer yet. However, if its accepted, I will immediately hire those 35 people back and do away with all the waffle irons.....:mg:
> jk


Love my Mathews! But I've got to agree, those waffle irons have to go.


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## jpittm2 (Jul 1, 2013)

Losing Levi hasn't exactly helped either...


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## Livetohunt (Jan 1, 2005)

Kevin Dahlen said:


> I'm not saying they shouldn't say they are #1. You miss my point. The problem is they spend more money telling me they are nobody one then making a bow that actually is #1.


I am sure they are #1 to many people.

I am just curious but where do u see them overwhelmingly advertising over others?(not including thier website because if one chooses to go there then they are not pushing it on you) Not a shot at u but curious.I just grabbed an issue of north american whitetail(only mag I subscribe to)and counted every ad that had a bow in it...be it for themselves or an ad for another product.I got:

PSE-6
Bear-3
Mathew-2
Hoyt-1
Mission-1
Bowtech-1

Obviously a bowhunting mag would have more ads and maybe the ratio would change,I will have to buy one and see but as far as this mag it is PSE that is pushing most.


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## sniperslayer (Dec 3, 2006)

Yea hard to believe Levi leaving Mathews hurt them so much , but it did and elite has taken off like crazy since he arrived even where I live elite is outselling Mathews 5 to 1


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

trucker3573 said:


> LOL yeah i guess so....must just seem like 16


Lol that was the other Mathews thread


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## Kevin Dahlen (Oct 17, 2014)

Livetohunt said:


> I am sure they are #1 to many people.
> 
> I am just curious but where do u see them overwhelmingly advertising over others?(not including thier website because if one chooses to go there then they are not pushing it on you) Not a shot at u but curious.I just grabbed an issue of north american whitetail(only mag I subscribe to)and counted every ad that had a bow in it...be it for themselves or an ad for another product.I got:
> 
> ...



From where I sit it seems easy to see that Mathews spends more money on 
Prostaffers, TV Shows, Commercials, etc. etc. than any other
manufacturer except Hoyt. PSE would be a distant follower to those two.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that when you "puff your chest
out", your bound to get people coming after you.

I wouldn't call myself a "hater", by any means. I think Mathews makes great
looking bows. I personally have never shot one, but I'm certain they make a
better bow than I can shoot. I was just trying to provide my perspective, that's 
all. Take it for what it's worth.


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## 13bonatter69 (Dec 23, 2007)

I can't actually confirm this, but I heard the new slogan is changing from. ....."catch us if you can", to "lap us if you can".


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## DeerCook (Jan 23, 2006)

sniperslayer said:


> Yea hard to believe Levi leaving Mathews hurt them so much , but it did and elite has taken off like crazy since he arrived even where I live elite is outselling Mathews 5 to 1


Most people that are not involved on AT, still don't even know what Elite is.....


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

DeerCook said:


> Most people that are not involved on AT, still don't even know what Elite is.....


or who Levi Morgan is.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

sniperslayer said:


> Yea hard to believe Levi leaving Mathews hurt them so much , but it did and elite has taken off like crazy since he arrived even where I live elite is outselling Mathews 5 to 1


Lol and you know the sales stats in your area? You're full of it and on top of that, hardly anybody knows who Levi or elite is, this community is a fraction of the market


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

I had no intention of buying a new bow all this Mathews talk has me fired up for their new line.


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## Boubou (May 15, 2010)

DeerCook said:


> Most people that are not involved on AT, still don't even know what Elite is.....


The same for what's his name , ah yes Levi.
Only place I heard of him is here, and what he does has no influence at all on what I do.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

sittingbull said:


> Rodney...do you have a link to the source?


It came from FB Archerytalk. I dont think I can link that


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Boubou said:


> The same for what's his name , ah yes Levi.
> Only place I heard of him is here, and what he does has no influence at all on what I do.


Mathews rose to fame by hiring the best professional archers in the business. 
*Coupled with a great product and marketing campaign never seen in the archery bizz


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## outback1 (Aug 12, 2005)

who is Levi? not being funny but does he design bow's?


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

To me Elites look very outdated








Much of the same technology that was in play 25 years ago just bend the limbs pack "parallel" and you have youself an Elite


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## Skeeter 58 (Jan 25, 2009)

COArrow said:


> My typo, should have read with no cost.


Sorry but that is the exception rather than the norm. There's many, many, folks that have had an increase of up to 5K on premiums and their deductable went up as well. 

It will depend on the provider and/or exchange.:wink:


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## Rjm08 (May 22, 2002)

rodney482 said:


> It came from FB Archerytalk. I dont think I can link that


I don't think that you will ever see a Mathews, Hoyt, or PSE employee come onto an Athens thread and link unconfirmed rumors and here say if God forbid Athens was in a tight spot. You never make your candle brighter by blowing out the other fellow's candle. 

Btw, these are Layoffs, which means that they can be called back to work at Mathews when things improve.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

Skeeter 58 said:


> Sorry but that is the exception rather than the norm. There's many, many, folks that have had an increase of up to 5K on premiums and their deductable went up as well.
> 
> It will depend on the provider and/or exchange.:wink:


Also where your company wants to cut costs. Cost of benefits have been going up for decades and accelerated over the 10-12 years. Some companies have just passed the cost on, others have found ways to recruit better talent who driver revenue and justify the increased cost. If bring value to your position, you will always get paid. However it is so bizarre that people are empathizing with companies "that have to cut benefits". Workers are giving back all the rights they won based on a political podium. Scary.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

I do know this... there are plenty of those folks here but they will never say who they work for. 








Rjm08 said:


> I don't think that you will ever see a Mathews, Hoyt, or PSE employee come onto an Athens thread and link unconfirmed rumors and here say if God forbid Athens was in a tight spot. You never make your candle brighter by blowing out the other fellow's candle.
> 
> Btw, these are Layoffs, which means that they can be called back to work at Mathews when things improve.


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## CarpCommander (Feb 5, 2003)

frostmas15 said:


> I can't stand the Mathews is going out of business BS. Mathews is out of Wisconsin where I live and this year crossbows were legalized in WI. I would imagine that no bow companies are doing great right now. I've spoken to many bow shops around here and they have all said that crossbows are outselling compounds about 10 to 1. This is probably part to do with not being able to get a top of the line bow for under $1000 anymore and with todays technology jobs are being cut everywhere! Just because an archery business cuts jobs it means their going out of business?? But if some other random business did it means nothing. Mathews has been building quality equipment for many years and continues to do so and will be around a very long time. It's absolute stupidity for someone to say that Mathews deals crap equipment and treat people like garbage. There is a reason they are one of the top selling bow companies ever.


Hmm...Matthews makes the Mission line, no? And....Mission makes crossbows no? 

That pretty much kicks the 'crossbow' theory in the balls. 

Crossbows are gaining ground-the smart companies will add them to their lineup; the others, well there may come a day when they wish they would have.


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## archerynut2014 (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm not bias but I'd be willing to bet mathews sells more bows each year than any company


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

Every company in the US is doing more with less. It's the economy we have right now, slim down and survive or go out of business. As for crossbows, I hunt with one but still shoot 3D so it made no differance in my world. I do beleive crossbow sales are up (I live in Ohio) as I seen that at a local sporting goods shop last weekend. There must have been 6 crossbows walked out in 2 hours, not one compound.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

archerynut2014 said:


> I'm not bias but I'd be willing to bet mathews sells more bows each year than any company


I would take that bet.....I would venture to say PSE sells more bows out of the box stores and online retailers than Mathews does, and that would just be the low to mid price range.....not that either one of us could prove anything.


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## ryno529 (Apr 14, 2013)

You will have to get the excise tax info which i think is public that would tell you who sells the most.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

ryno529 said:


> You will have to get the excise tax info which i think is public that would tell you who sells the most.


The top 3 by unit sales are PSE, Hoyt, and Mathews. Between the 3 of them, they sell more than all other manufacturers combined. It's easy to get started and grow from a small base, especially with today's outsourcing options…but you don't want the big three to deteriorate, because unlike the auto industry, it doesn't signal that they are weak and competitors are winning…it means the whole industry is shrinking. At some point that will mean fewer choices, less stability, and less innovation. All the guys that want the next moon shot bow every year, that will go out the window if the industry starts shrinking too quickly...


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## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The top 3 by unit sales are PSE, Hoyt, and Mathews. Between the 3 of them, they sell more than all other manufacturers combined. It's easy to get started and grow from a small base, especially with today's outsourcing options…but you don't want the big three to deteriorate, because unlike the auto industry, it doesn't signal that they are weak and competitors are winning…it means the whole industry is shrinking. At some point that will mean fewer choices, less stability, and less innovation. All the guys that want the next moon shot bow every year, that will go out the window if the industry starts shrinking too quickly...


Here you go again with that sound business acumen... Lol !


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The top 3 by unit sales are PSE, Hoyt, and Mathews. Between the 3 of them, they sell more than all other manufacturers combined. It's easy to get started and grow from a small base, especially with today's outsourcing options…but you don't want the big three to deteriorate, because unlike the auto industry, it doesn't signal that they are weak and competitors are winning…it means the whole industry is shrinking. At some point that will mean fewer choices, less stability, and less innovation. All the guys that want the next moon shot bow every year, that will go out the window if the industry starts shrinking too quickly...


And we have a winner!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> The top 3 by unit sales are PSE, Hoyt, and Mathews. Between the 3 of them, they sell more than all other manufacturers combined. It's easy to get started and grow from a small base, especially with today's outsourcing options…but you don't want the big three to deteriorate, because unlike the auto industry, it doesn't signal that they are weak and competitors are winning…it means the whole industry is shrinking. At some point that will mean fewer choices, less stability, and less innovation. All the guys that want the next moon shot bow every year, that will go out the window if the industry starts shrinking too quickly...


I've never seen the figures regarding sales for any of the manufacturers. Where did you find them. I'd be interested seeing them.


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## ryno529 (Apr 14, 2013)

Since they are private i don't think they release them or ever have. But i know they have to pay excise tax (11%) on everything they make so if you could find those tax records and they are public you could find out who is the larger company.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

carlosii said:


> I've never seen the figures regarding sales for any of the manufacturers. Where did you find them. I'd be interested seeing them.


He is speculating. The real numbers have never been released


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

rodney482 said:


> He is speculating. The real numbers have never been released


Not actually…it was in an article I read somewhere recently, maybe linked here, I don't know…had unit volumes for the top 10 manufacturers or so…they may be private, but the information isn't that hard to find or verify if you are a dealer or in the industry. Some of them put the information on their own websites…if you can triangulate it. What about the post would you change?


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

I dont know of ANY mfg that would release that information.

You must have been reading someone elses speculation.




KS Bow Hunter said:


> Not actually…it was in an article I read somewhere recently, maybe linked here, I don't know…had unit volumes for the top 10 manufacturers or so…they may be private, but the information isn't that hard to find or verify if you are a dealer or in the industry. Some of them put the information on their own websites…if you can triangulate it. What about the post would you change?


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## dlamb11 (Feb 27, 2014)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Not actually…it was in an article I read somewhere recently, maybe linked here, I don't know…had unit volumes for the top 10 manufacturers or so…they may be private, but the information isn't that hard to find or verify if you are a dealer or in the industry. Some of them put the information on their own websites…if you can triangulate it. What about the post would you change?


Numbers have never been released,nor will the real numbers ever be released. It's a private company. No private company has to issue,or post any information for public records. That includes tax information. Only thing you will find is value of company,what company pays retirement,and how many employees it has. The only public record from a private company you can find is land records. If Mathews builds a new plant you'll know about it anyways. 

The only way anyone will ever know real numbers of Mathews is if the CPA leaks the numbers. Highly unlikely.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

dlamb11 said:


> Numbers have never been released,nor will the real numbers ever be released. It's a private company. No private company has to issue,or post any information for public records. That includes tax information. Only thing you will find is value of company,what company pays retirement,and how many employees it has. The only public record from a private company you can find is land records. If Mathews builds a new plant you'll know about it anyways.
> 
> The only way anyone will ever know real numbers of Mathews is if the CPA leaks the numbers. Highly unlikely.


Again, not exactly. You can find all kinds of good data on the industry, just by using Google and the archery industry associations. Pretty detailed. And you can also find the FET numbers, again, pretty good information. And if you talk to some of the largest dealers in the country, they have a pretty darn good sense for how big these guys are. I'll bet you that if I'm not spot on, the only difference might be BowTech is #4, and the top 4 are larger than everyone else. It doesn't matter whether you think it's right or not, I am confident it is, and the point isn't that anyway…it's what is happening to the industry.


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## foreveryung (Mar 18, 2011)

Since the tax issue was in play, I had to search. It's no wonder companies are having a hard time. 

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...n=div6&view=text&node=26:16.0.1.1.6.8&idno=26


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

dlamb11 said:


> Numbers have never been released,nor will the real numbers ever be released. It's a private company. No private company has to issue,or post any information for public records. That includes tax information. Only thing you will find is value of company,what company pays retirement,and how many employees it has. The only public record from a private company you can find is land records. If Mathews builds a new plant you'll know about it anyways.
> 
> The only way anyone will ever know real numbers of Mathews is if the CPA leaks the numbers. Highly unlikely.


Here is one of those crazy, never seen before, and never will be seen numbers, from a fairly well-known publication called The Economist from the end of 2013:

Bowhunting is an escape from the “craziness of the world”, suggests Matt McPherson, founder and CEO of Mathews, the world’s largest bow-maker, based in Sparta, Wisconsin. His firm turns out nearly 300,000 bows a year; 

You can find a lot of those…so, let us assume that the industry as a whole is probably $600MM, half of which gets hit by the FET which was about $34.3MM in 2012. 

PSE also claims to be the largest manufacturer, and you know Hoyt is close to both. Maybe BowTech is 4th, and those 4 are larger than all of the others combined…

With another hour and Google I could come up with a pretty decent back of the envelope landscape of the industry, maybe a few databases needed to refine…

See no CPA required…


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

http://www.archerytrade.org/uploads/documents/ATA_Archery_FET_Collections_2007_Thru_March_2013.pdf


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## dlamb11 (Feb 27, 2014)

KS Bow Hunter said:


> Here is one of those crazy, never seen before, and never will be seen numbers, from a fairly well-known publication called The Economist from the end of 2013:
> 
> Bowhunting is an escape from the “craziness of the world”, suggests Matt McPherson, founder and CEO of Mathews, the world’s largest bow-maker, based in Sparta, Wisconsin. His firm turns out nearly 300,000 bows a year;
> 
> ...


Again 2 issues with your info. First: Matt McPherson said they produce 300,000 bows a year. Came from horses mouth. 

Second issue is your chart. Mathews is nowhere on that chart. Individual basis. It's talking archery industry as a whole. Not a signal company.

Again,Mathews will never release individual numbers unless the cpa used by Mr. McPherson releases them. So you can keep posting your data,but you will never get Mathews actual tax numbers,nor will you find anything on Mathews except what McPherson says,or allows,to be posted in a interview article. It's all speculation.

Here is another wrinkle with your numbers/tax info. Mathews has a value of 35 million a year. From everything they produce,not just bow sales. Mission line,lost camo royalties,quivers,etc. If you took the 300,000 bows produced. Not sold mind you. The numbers of 35 million a year cannot match what is produced. You can,but the numbers are all lopsided. Either the 300,000 bows produced is a stretch on Mathews part, and they have a huge warehouse full of bows,or the 35 million value a year is grossly misled. Cause 300,000 bows produced,let's say they sale all of them at average of 500 per bow. Mission line to high end,equates to 150 million in bow sales alone. That's just bows!!!! Not clothing, quivers, lost camo royalties etc. unless McPherson donates hundreds of millions to his missions. 

Again,no one will ever know true numbers unless your McPherson,or tax man.


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## KS Bow Hunter (Nov 22, 2013)

dlamb11 said:


> Again 2 issues with your info. First: Matt McPherson said they produce 300,000 bows a year. Came from horses mouth.
> 
> Second issue is your chart. Mathews is nowhere on that chart. Individual basis. It's talking archery industry as a whole. Not a signal company.
> 
> Again,Mathews will never release individual numbers unless the cpa used by Mr. McPherson releases them. So you can keep posting your data,but you will never get Mathews actual tax numbers,nor will you find anything on Mathews except what McPherson says,or allows,to be posted in a interview article. It's all speculation.


OK, you win. I give...


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

There are basically two types of archers. Those who have owned a Mathews and those that will.


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## Nubster (Oct 22, 2013)

hidden danger said:


> There are basically two types of archers. Those who have owned a Mathews and those that will.


bwahaha...I doubt it....but thanks for the laugh.


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## xman59 (Jan 19, 2009)

hidden danger said:


> There are basically two types of archers. Those who have owned a Mathews and those that will.


you have been proven wrong,,, never had one, never will own one,,, don't like them,, if they were "all that" there would never be anyone who "used to be" a Mathews user


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## Rat Trapper (Apr 1, 2012)

hidden danger said:


> There are basically two types of archers. Those who have owned a Mathews and those that will.


How about those of us who have owned and will never again??


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## pa.hunter (Jan 3, 2008)

Truly, sorry for those losing their jobs. as for Mathews- good bow but all the people that shoot them turn me off


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## SCFox (Dec 11, 2005)

After drifting through all the valuable insight and pertinent business information provided here, the only thing that amazes me is how many MENSA members we have here on AT. 

SCFox


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

hidden danger said:


> There are basically two types of archers. Those who have owned a Mathews and those that will.




HAHAHAHAHA....how bout the large portion of us on here that "have never, will never"? lol


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

SCFox said:


> After drifting through all the valuable insight and pertinent business information provided here, the only thing that amazes me is how many MENSA members we have here on AT.
> 
> SCFox


Haha I seriously doubt that... However, I am sure you will find MANY successful business people on AT...


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

bsp5019 said:


> HAHAHAHAHA....how bout the large portion of us on here that "have never, will never"? lol


I think you would be surprised... A lot of Mathews shooters do not run around bashing other brands... I think the "profile" that has been placed on Mathews fans was based on 5-10 years ago... Most of the Mathews shooters I know are willing to test and shoot other brands...yet the Hoyt and Bowtech shooters I know bash Mathews every chance they get...


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Ryjax said:


> I think you would be surprised... A lot of Mathews shooters do not run around bashing other brands... I think the "profile" that has been placed on Mathews fans was based on 5-10 years ago... Most of the Mathews shooters I know are willing to test and shoot other brands...yet the Hoyt and Bowtech shooters I know bash Mathews every chance they get...


That's exactly the way it is. Hoyt fanboys are the worst, and will talk crap on any bow other than their own. Bowtech is close to as bad, elite is as bad as hoyt. Lol Mathews shooters now at least any that I have met don't care about what you shoot. 

It's funny watching the hoyt fanboys on this site, any time hoyt is said they're like " let me tell ya about my HOYT. It's so bad ass. Get serious, get HOYT. 

Buncha d bags. Oh well, they'll learn someday. But probably not


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Ryjax said:


> I think you would be surprised... A lot of Mathews shooters do not run around bashing other brands... I think the "profile" that has been placed on Mathews fans was based on 5-10 years ago... Most of the Mathews shooters I know are willing to test and shoot other brands...yet the Hoyt and Bowtech shooters I know bash Mathews every chance they get...


In my area of Western Pennsyltucky Mathews/Rage/Realtree/Benelli/Nikon/Bone Collector/Secent Blocker people always thump their chests the loudest. These are also the same people who thump their chest the loudest about chevy/ford, Steelers/Browns, Republicans/Democrats, Coke/Pepsi, Budweiser/MillerCoors, Etc.... I think you get what you are saying. The people who buy what the *adds* and *TV personalities* tell them to buy. Yes, hoyt is just as bad. But, when your the two biggest companies in the industry, with huge amounts of money wrapped up into advertising, that's what your gonna get.


As for my statement. I stand by what I said. I have never, and will never own one. I have shot them before. Definitely smooth, definitely nice finish, definite attention to detail. But at the same time, I don't like single cam bow's, I don't like the looks of the waffle riser, and I dont particularly like the Apex line of target bows (they draw smooth, but at my short draw length, I feel like I'm holding a flag pole).

So I'll stick to other offerings, from other companies.


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Here, I just made a general AT post for ya:wink: lol




goodoleboy11 said:


> That's exactly the way it is. *Bow company A* fanboys are the worst, and will talk crap on any bow other than their own. *Bow Company B* is close to as bad, *Bow Company C* is as bad as *Bow Company A*. Lol *Bow Company D* shooters now at least any that I have met don't care about what you shoot.
> 
> It's funny watching the *Bow Company A* fanboys on this site, any time hoyt is said they're like " let me tell ya about my *BOW COMPANY A*. It's so bad ass. Get serious, get *BOW COMPANY A*.
> 
> Buncha d bags. Oh well, they'll learn someday. But probably not


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

bsp5019 said:


> Here, I just made a general AT post for ya:wink: lol


That's the way it is


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

bsp5019 said:


> In my area of Western Pennsyltucky Mathews/Rage/Realtree/Benelli/Nikon/Bone Collector/Secent Blocker people always thump their chests the loudest. These are also the same people who thump their chest the loudest about chevy/ford, Steelers/Browns, Republicans/Democrats, Coke/Pepsi, Budweiser/MillerCoors, Etc.... I think you get what you are saying.
> 
> 
> As for my statement. I stand by what I said. I have never, and will never own one. I have shot them before. Definitely smooth, definitely nice finish, definite attention to detail. But at the same time, I don't like single cam bow's, I don't like the looks of the waffle riser, and I dont particularly like the Apex line of target bows (they draw smooth, but at my short draw length, I feel like I'm holding a flag pole).
> ...


I agree completely. I think we all stereotype a brand's fan base based on our own region. How things are here in northern Arkansas are definitely not the same as other regions. As for your feeling towards Mathews, I agree...if you don't like the bow then there is absolutely zero sense in purchasing that brand. It's a great market now..we have lots of choices to choose from. We should pick our bows according to what we like and not worry about who's logo is on the riser.


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Ryjax said:


> I agree completely. I think we all stereotype a brand's fan base based on our own region. How things are here in northern Arkansas are definitely not the same as other regions.


Ya, things are definitely different all over the country. People just think differently in different locations.



> As for your feeling towards Mathews, I agree...if you don't like the bow then there is absolutely zero sense in purchasing that brand. It's a great market now..we have lots of choices to choose from. We should pick our bows according to what we like and not worry about who's logo is on the riser.


Yup, LOTS of good choices out there today. I have a close group of friends, that all they shoot, and will only shoot is Mathews. They wont try anything else, and gave me all sorts of flack for switching from Hoyt to PSE a couple years ago. It somehow challenges their manhood if you shoot anything but Mathews.

I personally really want to shoot a New Breed Cyborg or a Lycan. Those bows look cool IMO, and have specs that I like for target rigs. There's just no dealer within a reasonable drive for me.


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

The good news for the 35 laid off is PSE is expanding again. Maybe they will like Arizona.


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## pjmarcher (Oct 28, 2009)

I am not knocking the crossbow shooters out there but I think compound bow manufacturers are starting to feel the pinch caused by the increased demand for crossbows over compounds.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

pjmarcher said:


> I am not knocking the crossbow shooters out there but I think compound bow manufacturers are starting to feel the pinch caused by the increased demand for crossbows over compounds.


I'm not knocking crossbow shooters either. But unless you're disabled I think crossbow season should happen during gun season. Just mho.


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

I don't know about other states but in Ohio during gun season a crossbow would be worthless. With a crossbow you are still using the same techniques, tree stands, ground blinds or ground hunting. The ranges are still in my opinion the same, I like 30 yards or less. During gun season all the once a year hunters come out and shoot at anything running. I have only pushed a few times and it was no fun. IF? I gun hunt I hunt alone and from the ground, if I'm lucky like this year I will be at home eating chops during gun season.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

carlosii said:


> I'm not knocking crossbow shooters either. But unless you're disabled I think crossbow season should happen during gun season. Just mho.


I like Mathews, and a host of others.
I agree with your comment. IMO crossbows are ruining archery season in my area of Pa, my opinion and I know a lot of diehard bowhunters here feel the same way.


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## legion_archery (Mar 4, 2014)

Just found out that my Mathews/Mission sales rep was one of the 35 people that got let go at Mathews Inc


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

I don't know but 35 layed of, Elite E35...coincidence, I think not..


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

shootstraight said:


> I don't know but 35 layed of, Elite E35...coincidence, I think not..


Stop trolling Mathews Threads Elites look like they came out in 1985 if your happy with them then that is great but they are a drop in the bucket company Hoyt PSE Mathews and Even Blowtech are light years ahead. Elite had a niche following on AT but this does not represent the industry


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

bghunter7777 said:


> Stop trolling Mathews Threads Elites look like they came out in 1985 if your happy with them then that is great but they are a drop in the bucket company Hoyt PSE Mathews and Even Blowtech are light years ahead. Elite had a niche following on AT but this does not represent the industry


Give it a year. They are putting a lot of money into advertising and such. There are A LOT of hunting shows now shooting Elites, so the masses will eventually become aware of them.





And remember, once upon a time, Mathew's was a new company with a niche following. There is nothing that they make that is


> light years


 ahead of elite. In fact, since the roller guard, they really haven't developed any new technology or anything revolutionary..........


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

bsp5019 said:


> Give it a year. They are putting a lot of money into advertising and such. There are A LOT of hunting shows now shooting Elites, so the masses will eventually become aware of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That could be said for any company they all produce a good bow but Elite is not the magic bullet Mathews was a small name but had a big differentiation "SoloCam". Elite came into a heavily oversaturated shrinking market with no new technology they can pump money into marketing but I doubt that will be enough.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

shootstraight said:


> I don't know but 35 layed of, Elite E35...coincidence, I think not..


You know Nick, I think you are on to something.


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

Mathias said:


> IMO crossbows are ruining archery season in my area of Pa, my opinion and I know a lot of diehard bowhunters here feel the same way.


How, exactly, are they 'ruining' archery season? I have heard it echoed here in NC with respect to public land hunting. Some of the archery-only guys here feel that public land is now overrun with guys who don't really respect the game, respect the land, or respect other hunters. Ie. the same guys who plow into the woods for a few days each season, totally unprepared, just blasting away at anything that moves with the largest caliber they can afford to feed.

Is that what you guys are seeing, or something else?

About Mathews ... I've owned an older one and really liked the feel. But I wanted more speed and a shorter ATA and the newer Mathews bows that were shorter and faster just felt really clunky to me. They are nice bows, to be sure. But there are a lot of really good bows out now that are faster, shorter, just as smooth, but feel 'quicker' in the hand/more sporty/lighter and cost - in some cases - significantly less.


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

> Is that what you guys are seeing, or something else?


Gun season even on private land is like that. They don't have permission, they don't know how to hunt and just run all over. A guy a few years ago was standing in an open field shooting 1/4 mile away at deer running across the field. During bow season you don't know if a guy shoots compound or crossbow unless you see it in his hand. It's all bow hunting and I respect everyones preference in what they use.


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## BigBat (Oct 21, 2014)

Sad news hate for anyone to loose their job.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Snakum said:


> How, exactly, are they 'ruining' archery season? I have heard it echoed here in NC with respect to public land hunting. Some of the archery-only guys here feel that public land is now overrun with guys who don't really respect the game, respect the land, or respect other hunters. Ie. the same guys who plow into the woods for a few days each season, totally unprepared, just blasting away at anything that moves with the largest caliber they can afford to feed.
> 
> Is that what you guys are seeing, or something else?
> 
> About Mathews ... I've owned an older one and really liked the feel. But I wanted more speed and a shorter ATA and the newer Mathews bows that were shorter and faster just felt really clunky to me. They are nice bows, to be sure. But there are a lot of really good bows out now that are faster, shorter, just as smooth, but feel 'quicker' in the hand/more sporty/lighter and cost - in some cases - significantly less.


responded via PM so as to not further derail the thread


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

bghunter7777 said:


> Stop trolling Mathews Threads Elites look like they came out in 1985 if your happy with them then that is great but they are a drop in the bucket company Hoyt PSE Mathews and Even Blowtech are light years ahead. Elite had a niche following on AT but this does not represent the industry


Since you took me so seriously..


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## quadzillabill (Oct 6, 2012)

bghunter7777 said:


> What successful company does not think they are better than their competition a bunch of people who do not understand the sport of business and free market. I would outsource the jobs as well I work for a very large company in the outdoor industry and the down turn in the economy coupled with ObamaCare has made it nearly impossible. Its a necessary evil but our government policies will cost 100s of 1000s of jobs.


Yeah, show me the company that says they are the third best in their industry...


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

Mathias said:


> responded via PM so as to not further derail the thread


Replied. It's the same thing guys say they are seeing here. Glad I have private land to hunt. 


Back to Mathews ... I got a call and didn't finish my post: I don't think anyone can say Mathews doesn't make an excellent product. But what I see and hear among my hunting friends or when talking to folks at shops is that guys (at least around here) want shorter, lighter, faster and at the same time money is tight for many of us. With so many really good bows out here today Mathews slice of the pie is, I'm sure, getting smaller and smaller. A reorg is likely just Mathews responding to business realities. Hate it for the folks let go. Been there, done that.


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## XxOHIOARCHERxX (Jul 17, 2013)

bghunter7777 said:


> I had no intention of buying a new bow all this Mathews talk has me fired up for their new line.


I'm buying a new mathews. Don't need one but I'll help out a company I love and believe in.


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

XxOHIOARCHERxX said:


> I'm buying a new mathews. Don't need one but I'll help out a company I love and believe in.


So you consider them a charity now or what?


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## thare1774 (Dec 13, 2010)

Mathews dropped us earlier this year after we promoted and sold their bows for years. They released a line that was unsellable in our area so our sales were lower, nobody out here wants a 28" ATA bow or a bow with floating yokes, not to mention their target line is old and boring. They completely abandoned us over a few months of slow business, so i can care less what other good they do in the sport. Im glad theyre feeling the pain of slow business and I hope it knocks em down a few pegs. Everybody on here talks about how much good Mathews does, they have been screwing over and dropping their dealers all around the country, the very same shops that made them what they are. They arent saints people, they wont hesitate to forget all the sales a shop has done for them and completely screw them. They werent loyal to us when we were diwn, so why should I feel bad or sorry that theyre very clearly suffering from lower sales!?


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

I will be ordering two new Mathews soon .it's indoor time baby time to pound some dots.any company that spends money to spread the love of Jesus.and hid redemption plan.i will support .the chill x rocks.if they improve off that I'm can't wait.so I am a Mathews fan boy.but all the other companies make great bows to.my best friends shoot .hoyt ,elites,strothers and pse.there all great.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

thescout said:


> so you consider them a charity now or what?


lol!!


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

thare1774 said:


> Mathews dropped us earlier this year after we promoted and sold their bows for years. They released a line that was unsellable in our area so our sales were lower, nobody out here wants a 28" ATA bow or a bow with floating yokes, not to mention their target line is old and boring. They completely abandoned us over a few months of slow business, so i can care less what other good they do in the sport. Im glad theyre feeling the pain of slow business and I hope it knocks em down a few pegs. Everybody on here talks about how much good Mathews does, they have been screwing over and dropping their dealers all around the country, the very same shops that made them what they are. They arent saints people, they wont hesitate to forget all the sales a shop has done for them and completely screw them. They werent loyal to us when we were diwn, so why should I feel bad or sorry that theyre very clearly suffering from lower sales!?


They have been dropping shops like bad habits here too. 

It is very clear they think there's magic bullets with other shops. Like their current dealers don't know how to sell.

Used to be the bows sold themselves. Not the case anymore. There's just so many alternatives out there that are as nice, better or faster with similar draw cycles.

I feel bad for the dealers who spent years and years selling their product only to have the rug pulled out from under them. In 99% of cases, it was not the dealers fault. It was the product or lack there of.


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

whack n' stack said:


> They have been dropping shops like bad habits here too.
> 
> It is very clear they think there's magic bullets with other shops. Like their current dealers don't know how to sell.
> 
> ...


I love these statistics 99% its actually the exact opposite just putting a Mathews sign on your door used to make you a bunch of money now as you said there is more competition Mathews still make great bows as do other companies. I have first hand witnessed some horrible businesses that still made a boat load off of the Mathews name they should be grateful for the years of milk and honey and do some self reflection on why they lost their dealership.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

bghunter7777 said:


> I love these statistics 99% its actually the exact opposite just putting a Mathews sign on your door used to make you a bunch of money now as you said there is more competition Mathews still make great bows as do other companies. I have first hand witnessed some horrible businesses that still made a boat load off of the Mathews name they should be grateful for the years of milk and honey and do some self reflection on why they lost their dealership.


No doubt. The two of the biggest nightmare shops that I ever walked into had a neon Mathews sign in the window.


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## Nubster (Oct 22, 2013)

I don't know anything about the business side of things...but does it cost Matthews, or any company for that matter, to maintain a dealer? I just thought that if you were a dealer, it allowed you to purchase bows from the company at cost, mark them up and resell them for profit. Is there more to it that actually costs the company money?


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

Nubster said:


> I don't know anything about the business side of things...but does it cost Matthews, or any company for that matter, to maintain a dealer? I just thought that if you were a dealer, it allowed you to purchase bows from the company at cost, mark them up and resell them for profit. Is there more to it that actually costs the company money?


It does not cost the company money but many companies like Mathews only allow a certain number of dealers and generally space them out to give the dealer an opportunity to make money. If dealer A has a particular region and is doing a bad job marketing selling and servicing customers they are giving the product a bad name it makes business sense to pull the dealership and reassign or redirect customers to a better dealer.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

bghunter7777 said:


> It does not cost the company money but many companies like Mathews only allow a certain number of dealers and generally space them out to give the dealer an opportunity to make money. If dealer A has a particular region and is doing a bad job marketing selling and servicing customers they are giving the product a bad name it makes business sense to pull the dealership and reassign or redirect customers to a better dealer.


I wonder if bow companies send hired personnel into their proshops to see how the dealers push their products?


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## thare1774 (Dec 13, 2010)

The product is lackluster and outdated, they've relied on their name for too long and provided us with bows that NOBODY in our area was interested in. Literally had 2 people test a Creed XS and a Chill, both walked out with Primes or Bowtechs. It sounds absurd that only 2 people in LA County CA were interested but its true. I think archers are finding you can get better performing quality bows and good service from smaller companies and Mathews is feeling it in their bank accounts. For their own sake they better eat crow and start copying some successful designs and technologies from other companies.


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## HANGum HIGH (Mar 9, 2007)

thare1774 said:


> Mathews dropped us earlier this year after we promoted and sold their bows for years. They released a line that was unsellable in our area so our sales were lower, nobody out here wants a 28" ATA bow or a bow with floating yokes, not to mention their target line is old and boring. They completely abandoned us over a few months of slow business, so i can care less what other good they do in the sport. Im glad theyre feeling the pain of slow business and I hope it knocks em down a few pegs. Everybody on here talks about how much good Mathews does, they have been screwing over and dropping their dealers all around the country, the very same shops that made them what they are. They arent saints people, they wont hesitate to forget all the sales a shop has done for them and completely screw them. They werent loyal to us when we were diwn, so why should I feel bad or sorry that theyre very clearly suffering from lower sales!?





thare1774 said:


> The product is lackluster and outdated, they've relied on their name for too long and provided us with bows that NOBODY in our area was interested in. Literally had 2 people test a Creed XS and a Chill, both walked out with Primes or Bowtechs. It sounds absurd that only 2 people in LA County CA were interested but its true. I think archers are finding you can get better performing quality bows and good service from smaller companies and Mathews is feeling it in their bank accounts. For their own sake they better eat crow and start copying some successful designs and technologies from other companies.


Sounds like they should have dropped you a long time ago!


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## dberg76 (Sep 25, 2009)

hidden danger said:


> I wonder if bow companies send hired personnel into their proshops to see how the dealers push their products?


Thats what sales reps do. Part of their job is spend time in the shops (this may be an hour every six months or an hour every few weeks). Sales reps are pretty sharp and typically understand the local market. They can get a sense for what products a company pushes just by walking in the door anyd taking a look around.

I work in a kitchen design studio. In my opinion these are two businesses that run on very similar models. We are authorized dealers for 4 different kitchen cabinet companies and each company has it's own regional sales rep. Those reps know our sales numbers and can probably tell what cabinets we push based upon numbers alone (and obviously the state of the local market). We try to sell them all equally but from time to time we are threatened with getting our dealer status (or exclusive dealer status pulled). We don't really change things. The customer usually knows what they want.

I shoot and love mathews and their philosophy, but in sales if you are not moving product a company will look for somebody that will try harder to move your product. Im sure there are many shops that have gotten lax with pushing mathews, and im sure there is a list of shops in every area that would love to pick up mathews dealer status. If 300 shops got their dealer status pulled, i would imagine mathews has a short list of new shops they will be trying to get into.

Just my .02 cents.


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## archerynut2014 (Oct 5, 2014)

Exactly ! The dealer I go to has mathews and Hoyt , the Hoyt's are so much more money. It's about even on bows sold but the other store near me has mathews, elite and bow tech. They sell mathews a lot more than the other two. I guess it's just the area.


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## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

bghunter7777 said:


> It does not cost the company money but many companies like Mathews only allow a certain number of dealers and generally space them out to give the dealer an opportunity to make money. If dealer A has a particular region and is doing a bad job marketing selling and servicing customers they are giving the product a bad name it makes business sense to pull the dealership and reassign or redirect customers to a better dealer.


Instead of that in my area we have a solid Mathews dealer for years. Maybe sales went down a little because other bows got better and mathews sales suffered some. But they just allowed another dealer to open less than 10 miles away. So there are 2 within 10 miles. 
They don't have loyalty, they are just about money like every other company out there..
Which I guess is How you must be to survive, but nobody should make them out to be anything special as far as how they protect a dealers area because they don't..


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

parkerbows said:


> Instead of that in my area we have a solid Mathews dealer for years. Maybe sales went down a little because other bows got better and mathews sales suffered some. But they just allowed another dealer to open less than 10 miles away. So there are 2 within 10 miles.
> They don't have loyalty, they are just about money like every other company out there..
> Which I guess is How you must be to survive, but nobody should make them out to be anything special as far as how they protect a dealers area because they don't..


I would imagine this does happen but if it was only about sales we would have them in our stores and we don't


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## pa.hunter (Jan 3, 2008)

XxOHIOARCHERxX said:


> I'm buying a new mathews. Don't need one but I'll help out a company I love and believe in.


 company I love holy crap its a bow company! :confused3:


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

archerynut2014 said:


> Exactly ! The dealer I go to has mathews and Hoyt , the Hoyt's are so much more money. It's about even on bows sold but the other store near me has mathews, elite and bow tech. They sell mathews a lot more than the other two. I guess it's just the area.


I agree. In our shop, Elite sold more this year and hardly moved any Mathews.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

hidden danger said:


> I wonder if bow companies send hired personnel into their proshops to see how the dealers push their products?


They have done this to a certain extent, the personnel that check out shops are usually regional or local staffers.



dberg76 said:


> Thats what sales reps do. Part of their job is spend time in the shops (this may be an hour every six months or an hour every few weeks). Sales reps are pretty sharp and typically understand the local market. They can get a sense for what products a company pushes just by walking in the door anyd taking a look around.
> 
> I work in a kitchen design studio. In my opinion these are two businesses that run on very similar models. We are authorized dealers for 4 different kitchen cabinet companies and each company has it's own regional sales rep. Those reps know our sales numbers and can probably tell what cabinets we push based upon numbers alone (and obviously the state of the local market). We try to sell them all equally but from time to time we are threatened with getting our dealer status (or exclusive dealer status pulled). We don't really change things. The customer usually knows what they want.
> 
> ...



Mathews does not have sales reps that travel to shops, they depend on their network of staffers both Factory and Regional to check on shops and report back. They also take into consideration the number of calls they receive from a certain area or shops demographic area.


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## dberg76 (Sep 25, 2009)

XForce Girl said:


> Mathews does not have sales reps that travel to shops, they depend on their network of staffers both Factory and Regional to check on shops and report back. They also take into consideration the number of calls they receive from a certain area or shops demographic area.


That's interesting. I'm not in the archery industry so I just assumed that's how they worked. Thanks for the clarification.


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## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

When a new bow is sold at a Mathews dealer and the warranty is registered, the information goes into a database. The buyer's zip code is referenced with the shop zip code.
This way they keep track of how many buyers are travelling what distance to what dealer to buy a bow.
It also tells them what shops are performing well and are preferred by buyers, especially if they drive by 3 dealers to get to a certain one.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

Today, just bought another Mathews!


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

Chris1ny said:


> Today, just bought another Mathews!


:clap2:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

The road goes on forever and the party never ends...


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## bowtecher82nd (Feb 19, 2008)

I guess we will see less Mathews on TV!!!


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## GREENBALL (Nov 3, 2009)

What I heard about Mathews dropping dealers was because they were selling bows way below MSRP. Mathews is just leveling out the playing field I guess.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

GREENBALL said:


> What I heard about Mathews dropping dealers was because they were selling bows way below MSRP. Mathews is just leveling out the playing field I guess.


From what I understood, Mathews never had a MAP.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Man some of you guys are real nit picky about your bow. How would you all have fared when people only made traditional bows? There would've been no exact standards so every bow would've been different. By the way some of you talk, it's like one manufacturer is terrible and the other the greatest. It's like Chevy or GM. They're both terrible, buy toyota : )


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

GREENBALL said:


> What I heard about Mathews dropping dealers was because they were selling bows way below MSRP. Mathews is just leveling out the playing field I guess.


Around here Mathews bows are literally the cheapest ones on the shop wall. Back to the Heli-M all bows have been $719 price tagged since release day. The way the tech explained it was he didn't have a set price like other manufacturers. There is a price war on bows going on between 2 shops. It's fantastic for the consumer! We don't pay near MSRP on almost anything!


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

Scottie/PA said:


> From what I understood, Mathews never had a MAP.


They are supposed to next year


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## Earlyboomer (Sep 29, 2013)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Great post. I find some of the hateful comments on here hilarious. To hate a company as much as some of these comments go is very strange. Many on this site take their fanboyism to another level, they make it a personal level, and if anything is going on with a company good or bad other than their own they are all over it, I don't know whether it's pathetic or scary lol.


What's hateful about describing a company's customer service responses unless they are inaccurate??


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## dbrauny12000 (Jan 23, 2011)

it is sad when anyone gets laid off, but we are looking at this all wrong. yes we are in tough economical times. but our government has been going after companies like mathews, and others. especially companies that have anything to do with hunting. Gun manufactures ,ect.
this does not help anyone.the one thing I love about our sport is almost all of our equipment is high quality, and made here in the USA.
I work for a major defense contractor. My company forever has offered and incredible health care package.that ends this year. the government considers it a cadillac 
plan, so it will be taxed. When is it a good Idea to punish a company for doing the right thing? We all come fro different walks of life , different faiths. but we all have common values in our sport. we believe in family , the constitution and our God given rights.
We may not always agree with each other here on AT. But we always stand by each other. Just do a search and you will alway find the longest threads are,
when prayers are needed. We reach out and support people who we have never met. Because we all have been there.
it is pretty amazing if you think about it.
May be our elected officials ,should join AT. maybe they will learn a thing or two.
it is not only Mathews that this is happing to , so many of the companies we support and work for are under attack.
May God look out for those who have lost their jobs, and may they find work soon. 
sorry for the long post. lol had to speak my peice.


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## Snakum (Oct 8, 2013)

dbrauny12000 said:


> it is sad when anyone gets laid off, but we are looking at this all wrong. yes we are in tough economical times. but our government has been going after companies like mathews, and others. especially companies that have anything to do with hunting. Gun manufactures ,ect.
> this does not help anyone.the one thing I love about our sport is almost all of our equipment is high quality, and made here in the USA.





> We may not always agree with each other here on AT. But we always stand by each other. Just do a search and you will alway find the longest threads are,
> when prayers are needed. We reach out and support people who we have never met. Because we all have been there.
> it is pretty amazing if you think about it. May be our elected officials ,should join AT. maybe they will learn a thing or two.



Nevermind.


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## Hunter4christ75 (Sep 12, 2013)

I'll never own another Mathews. But hate to hear this. Lot of people love their bows. Maybe if they do sell. Maybe the Outdoor group can buy them. They seem to know what they are doing.


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## hedp (Dec 20, 2011)

I didn't realize Matthews was the biggest bow company. I wonder how big they are?


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## NAVYBOWHHUNTER (Jun 8, 2009)

I'm sure if mathews wasn't wasting so much $$$ on big name sponsors and all the big TV shows they probably wouldn't have to lay off those employees. Just my opinion.


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## tinbeater (Dec 16, 2012)

NAVYBOWHHUNTER said:


> I'm sure if mathews wasn't wasting so much $$$ on big name sponsors and all the big TV shows they probably wouldn't have to lay off those employees. Just my opinion.


Thats the only way they know.


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## NAVYBOWHHUNTER (Jun 8, 2009)

tinbeater said:


> Thats the only way they know.


To bad they had to sacrifice hard working people just to do that. The "catch us if you can" is such a joke now, shame on them is we're I'm going to leave it.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

hedp said:


> I didn't realize Matthews was the biggest bow company. I wonder how big they are?


They can get away with saying that because no one can truly audit their sales numbers. Just like no one can audit Hoyt, PSE, Bowtech, or anyone else's. It's the protection one has by being a privately owned company.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

dbrauny12000 said:


> it is sad when anyone gets laid off, but we are looking at this all wrong. yes we are in tough economical times. but our government has been going after companies like mathews, and others. especially companies that have anything to do with hunting. Gun manufactures ,ect.
> this does not help anyone.the one thing I love about our sport is almost all of our equipment is high quality, and made here in the USA.
> I work for a major defense contractor. My company forever has offered and incredible health care package.that ends this year. the government considers it a cadillac
> plan, so it will be taxed. When is it a good Idea to punish a company for doing the right thing? We all come fro different walks of life , different faiths. but we all have common values in our sport. we believe in family , the constitution and our God given rights.
> ...


You're looking at it wrong if you think the government is targeting hunting companies like mathews ha.


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## caylej24 (Nov 8, 2013)

I happened to see on Facebook this morning that Chris Ashley from Primos took a picture from his stand and stated he was enjoying the view from Mr. Hoyt's office. As far as I knew...the Primos crew shot Mathews so I wonder if they switched to Hoyt for some reason due to Mathews making some changes or what not. Just a little tid bit I noticed today. Curious to see what's happening!


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## dlamb11 (Feb 27, 2014)

caylej24 said:


> I happened to see on Facebook this morning that Chris Ashley from Primos took a picture from his stand and stated he was enjoying the view from Mr. Hoyt's office. As far as I knew...the Primos crew shot Mathews so I wonder if they switched to Hoyt for some reason due to Mathews making some changes or what not. Just a little tid bit I noticed today. Curious to see what's happening!


Will and brad shoot Mathews still. Mathews still sponsors primos the truth tv show. The other primos guys shoot hoyts and have since last year or before(I believe). Isn't bone collector and Chris Ashley also primos? I know Hoyt had the bone collector edition bow you could get last year.


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## caylej24 (Nov 8, 2013)

Ya bone collector is with Hoyt and I want to say that Chris Ashley is now doing stuff with bone collector now and not primos. I wish these guys would stick with something! It get confusing trying to keep track of who is doing what with who! Haha.


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## MOBOW#1 (Jun 14, 2005)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Some of these tools act like mathews inc went to their house and burned it down. Then grabbed their bow and sliced the cables off it. The jealousy and hate spouted is pathetic, you are correct. It's also hilarious. Some are taking their fanboyism and brand WAY too seriously. It's worse than even the Chevy ford debate.













Watched it for Many Many years on the 3-D Circuit....Couldn't stand it, Made me sick to even the thought of thinking like most of them...


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

caylej24 said:


> Ya bone collector is with Hoyt and I want to say that Chris Ashley is now doing stuff with bone collector now and not primos. I wish these guys would stick with something! It get confusing trying to keep track of who is doing what with who! Haha.


Reminds me of NASCAR. I don't watch either one anymore.


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## caylej24 (Nov 8, 2013)

Hahaha ain't that the truth!


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## Bow Me (Sep 30, 2010)

Thread recap: 
Bow company lays off 35 employees.

Some people had a great experience with the companies customer service. Says any body who didn't receive good customer service is lying and stupid. 

Some people had a bad experience with the customer service. Says they'll take their business elsewhere.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Bow Me said:


> Thread recap:
> Bow company lays off 35 employees.
> 
> Some people had a great experience with the companies customer service. Says any body who didn't receive good customer service is lying and stupid.
> ...


Does that mean we can close this thread? LOL


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

The yhaven't had a "promising" line up since one cams were still relevant... They have really fallen. (at least in technology and quality, if not sales due to the sheep herd)



AK&HIboy said:


> Not a bash, but leads one to believe 15 line up is not very promising? If it we're I wouldn't expect job cuts prior?


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Why should we close this thread.when so many be get off by bashing Mathews .we shouldn't spoil there fun there wives need a break


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Most disturbing part of this whole thread is the people that seem to be getting enjoyment out of 35 people losing their job.


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

Mathews are the New York Yankees of the Archery World everbody who hates them secretly wants to be them. Do they win the WS every year no and even may go through a slump. But the most hated are always those at the top. Sometimes the truth hurts Catch them if you can!


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

THE ELKMAN said:


> The yhaven't had a "promising" line up since one cams were still relevant... They have really fallen. (at least in technology and quality, if not sales due to the sheep herd)


I obviously did not get a single piece of info from them regards specs, name etc... But the word "game changer" was used for their 15 release... By what Bowtech has been saying about a completely new style and Hoyt releasing something sorta new, I would say Mathews will do the same... Guess we will see in a couple weeks


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## XxOHIOARCHERxX (Jul 17, 2013)

bghunter7777 said:


> Mathews are the New York Yankees of the Archery World everbody who hates them secretly wants to be them. Do they win the WS every year no and even may go through a slump. But the most hated are always those at the top. Sometimes the truth hurts Catch them if you can!


Well said!


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## zenworks911 (Oct 3, 2006)

I heard that as soon as they caught wind of Hoyt's revolutionary technology they went into a panic. They were just fixin' to patent the same idea that hoyt released. It's funny cause I had been thinking about patenting that revolutionary idea too but Hoyt beat me to it. Since I didn't have people to lay off I just sucker punch arrowed a plastic duck with a Rage broadhead. Didn't get pass-thru though. :-(


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

bghunter7777 said:


> Mathews are the New York Yankees of the Archery World everbody who hates them secretly wants to be them. Do they win the WS every year no and even may go through a slump. But the most hated are always those at the top. Sometimes the truth hurts Catch them if you can!


Nah, more comparable the Cardinals


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

zenworks911 said:


> I heard that as soon as they caught wind of Hoyt's revolutionary technology they went into a panic. They were just fixin' to patent the same idea that hoyt released. It's funny cause I had been thinking about patenting that revolutionary idea too but Hoyt beat me to it. Since I didn't have people to lay off I just sucker punch arrowed a plastic duck with a Rage broadhead. Didn't get pass-thru though. :-(


Somebody had some sugary cereal this morning.. This post has me scratching my head lol


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## shooterrdy (Sep 3, 2012)

I am afraid its more of a Plato kind of thing for Archery I think we have reached the top of how many bows, sights, clothes we can bring to market and still increase margins, The problem is that most all of are beloved brands have been sold or structured by 
large investment banking companies that only read the bottom line and care less about the product or customer service. Its industry wide in the outdoors market, Remington Outdoors, ATK etc. own every thing and if they don't see an increase in 
profit margins every year then someone is at fault it can never be the fact that there simply are not enough blue collar enthusiasts to buy the products. This is why the Price goes up each year because what they lack in sales thy try to make up with Price Increase and acquisition of other company's then a year later when there is no one to acquire and sales are flat there must be cuts made to continue to show their investors what a great job their doing. It is very unfortunate that this has become the World we live in The days of having Mom and Pop business owners can not compete and the Banks dont care about anything but the margin. When buying take a look at who actually owns the company and then decide what to expect from them.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

shooterrdy said:


> I am afraid its more of a Plato kind of thing for Archery I think we have reached the top of how many bows, sights, clothes we can bring to market and still increase margins, The problem is that most all of are beloved brands have been sold or structured by
> large investment banking companies that only read the bottom line and care less about the product or customer service. Its industry wide in the outdoors market, Remington Outdoors, ATK etc. own every thing and if they don't see an increase in
> *profit margins* every year then someone is at fault it can never be the fact that there simply are not enough blue collar enthusiasts to buy the products. This is why the Price goes up each year because what they lack in sales thy try to make up with Price Increase and acquisition of other company's then a year later when there is no one to acquire and sales are flat there must be cuts made to continue to show their investors what a great job their doing. It is very unfortunate that this has become the World we live in The days of having Mom and Pop business owners can not compete and the Banks dont care about anything but the margin. When buying take a look at who actually owns the company and then decide what to expect from them.


My guess is that you have no idea what a profit margin is.....


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## 737flyer (Dec 8, 2009)

Well, I'm no Mathews fan...... BUT I am an AMERICAN COMPANY fan! I want all US companies, employing US citizens to do great! The thought of even one job lost, anywhere, is distressing to me. I've been there.

I hope Mathews comes out with great innovative products, and their sales return. Why? Competition within any market place is always good. It stimulates development by other companies. In general, success breeds success.

Does it mean I will buy one? Probably not (it's that Ford, Chevy, Dodge type thing). The term fanboy set aside, folks should see it for what it is - painful to those who lost their jobs.


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

bghunter7777 said:


> Mathews are the New York Yankees of the Archery World everbody who hates them secretly wants to be them. Do they win the WS every year no and even may go through a slump. But the most hated are always those at the top. Sometimes the truth hurts Catch them if you can!


Don't know if you've noticed, but the New York Yankees haven't been all that great lately.....they even needed to pimp the retirement of their old horse to gain some attention this year...




.....your right, they are kinda like the Yankees lol:darkbeer:


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## Bowhunter_IL_BT (Sep 27, 2011)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Nah, more comparable the Cardinals


No Mathews is more like the CUBS !!!!! So many stupid people like them even though they Suck and are very over-rated and continue to lose !!!!


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

Bowhunter_IL_BT said:


> No Mathews is more like the CUBS !!!!! So many stupid people like them even though they Suck and are very over-rated and continue to lose !!!!


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Bowhunter_IL_BT said:


> No Mathews is more like the CUBS !!!!! So many stupid people like them even though they Suck and are very over-rated and continue to lose !!!!


Hahah shouldn't you be trying to peek into Pete's bedroom or something? Run along little fanboy


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

Bowhunter_IL_BT said:


> No Mathews is more like the CUBS !!!!! So many stupid people like them even though they Suck and are very over-rated and continue to lose !!!!


That would make Elite like the Angels right? Spending a ton of money to build their brand, but at the end of the day the organization sucks...


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Ryjax said:


> That would make Elite like the Angels right? Spending a ton of money to build their brand, but at the end of the day the organization sucks...


Hahah so true. I think he's 12 or a little slow up there.. Lol and he fantasizes about being Petes girl friend


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

goodoleboy11 said:


> Hahah so true. I think he's 12 or a little slow up there.. Lol and he fantasizes about being Petes girl friend


Haha watch yourself or he will start sending you PMs about how badass he is


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Ryjax said:


> Haha watch yourself or he will start sending you PMs about how badass he is


What?! Lol has he done that before or something? That's hilarious


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

Ryjax said:


> Haha watch yourself or he will start sending you PMs about how badass he is


Dale Jr? (NOT Earnhardt)


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

goodoleboy11 said:


> What?! Lol has he done that before or something? That's hilarious


It was quite comical lol I got some good laughs that day


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Ryjax said:


> It was quite comical lol I got some good laughs that day


No way! Hahaha looks like we got a billy bad ass!


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## Ryjax (Mar 3, 2014)

SHPoet said:


> Dale Jr? (NOT Earnhardt)


Haha never had Dale do that to me, but I have heard


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## Bowhunter_IL_BT (Sep 27, 2011)

nhns4 said:


>


Right on brother! Mathews fanboys continue to defend themselves even though they suck


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

Bowhunter_IL_BT said:


> Right on brother! Mathews fanboys continue to defend themselves even though they suck


Lmao you are such a douche


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## Arbowhunter32 (Sep 9, 2013)

goodoleboy11 said:


> lmao you are such a douche


x100


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## shooterrdy (Sep 3, 2012)

> My guess is that you have no idea what a profit margin is.....


Always got to be some 13,000 post having **** stain running their mouth since they have nothing more to do than draw their well fare check and surf the web. 

What Margin of Pot did you smoke today you Hippie ****


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

shooterrdy said:


> Always got to be some 13,000 post having **** stain running their mouth since they have nothing more to do than draw their well fare check and surf the web.
> 
> What Margin of Pot did you smoke today you Hippie ****


You might wanna take a hit and chill out.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

shooterrdy said:


> Always got to be some 13,000 post having **** stain running their mouth since they have nothing more to do than draw their well fare check and surf the web.
> 
> What Margin of Pot did you smoke today you Hippie ****


Welfare check??? That's a laugh.

I've been working my butt off in the same industry for over 35 years. I'm now within 5 years of retirement and I won't need Social Security to be comfortable. 

I don't smoke pot even though it is legal out here.

Try again......

By the way, I didn't see a definition of a profit margin.


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## Jfranks1203 (Apr 26, 2014)

As someone who has shot Mathews for years, they really need to step their game up with the new 2015's. If they show up with the same old crap I'm either buying a new victory, or a new podium... seriously.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

Ooooooo, looks ugly.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Great company, that I can say I am proud to be an employee of for ten years and counting! It's aweful that American people have to loose their jobs, but news flash the archery industry is very lucky that the industry has been strong when the economy not so much so. How many other archery manufacturers have cut jobs with no attention? Mathews last I heard employeed close to 400 people, with their lastest machining facility opening just a couple years ago. I visited that very new machining facility the same year it opened and saw some state of the art machinery that was very eye opening.
> I think it is an important part of this conversation that is generally left out, is their new robots. That year I visited they were just implementing an Italian Robot that made limbs all day long, perfect limbs I must say,and there was plans to purchase more of those robots. What does machinery like this do? Eliminates jobs and more terribly high healthcare costs.
> People need to relax let these companies make business decisions and move on, we hope that those employees find jobs and that maybe Mathews can call them back around the new year when the 2-3 new bows they come out with blow the socks off the competition!


^^ Is prob dead on but that aint what folks want to here.


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

Could care a less about all the childish dribble in this thread. I used to shoot Mathew's but don't anymore. They lost me with their offerings long ago.

I hope they come back with a vengeance and make me want to rush out and buy one.

Hate seeing anyone lose their jobs. That it's a joke to some does not surprise me with the way our country is going..


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## tinbeater (Dec 16, 2012)

Bowhunter_IL_BT said:


> Right on brother! Mathews fanboys continue to defend themselves even though they suck


It really shows in this thread


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

Do some of you guys ever wander what your life has become read some of your posts and actually think about it.


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

Wow...this thread is spiraling out of control...bout time to lock this one up.


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## 573mms (Jan 23, 2014)

Has anyone noticed how goodoleboy (mathews fanboy) gets on every hoyt thread on here and says how bad they are but goes off on anyone who says anything about mathews!


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

TheScOuT said:


> Wow...this thread is spiraling out of control...bout time to lock this one up.


I agree 100%. This hater fest has ran it's course.


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## goodoleboy11 (Apr 23, 2013)

573mms said:


> Has anyone noticed how goodoleboy (mathews fanboy) gets on every hoyt thread on here and says how bad they are but goes off on anyone who says anything about mathews!


Another stupid post on this thread, shocker lol looks like you can't read either, might want to take a look at my posts champ, looked at your posts and not surprised, your a hoyt fanboy and hoyt fanboys don't like me because I tell it like it is


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

hidden danger said:


> I agree 100%. This hater fest has ran it's course.


But has it ran it's course for Bowtech?

I hate what this thread turned into, like i said but let's be real.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Bowhunter_IL_BT said:


> Right on brother! Mathews fanboys continue to defend themselves even though they suck


AT used to be far better than this :sad:
You can feel the generation gap, damned pre-teens.


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## bghunter7777 (Aug 14, 2014)

Mathias said:


> AT used to be far better than this :sad:
> You can feel the generation gap, damned pre-teens.


That is the truth as well


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

Never been ashamed to be an archer, but after reading this childish thread I am truly embarassed to be associated with the idiots on this thread in any way, shape, or form.


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## Hunter4christ75 (Sep 12, 2013)

......and this is why I stick to TexasBowhunter.com and other forums. Everyone on AT is a ceo of a company or a world class technician that has worked on everything under the Sun. Nobody can be happy anymore for whatever someone else drives,shoots or believes in. Petty.


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## namozine (Mar 15, 2013)

bghunter7777 said:


> That is the truth as well


X3... There are a lot of 24 year old clock punchers on here that know more about business than a 48 year old who's owned one for 25 years...
This is why I don't bother to post much anymore...


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Mathias said:


> AT used to be far better than this :sad:
> You can feel the generation gap, damned pre-teens.


AT has not changed at all... Unless it was from years 02-04 ???


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## Double S (Mar 30, 2008)

Time to put this thread down to rest. Multiple warnings sent out.

REMINDER:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/announcement.php?f=3&a=187


Thread crapping and trolling

Over the last several months there has been an influx of trolling and thread crapping throughout the General section of the forum. These boards are here for ALL members to enjoy and the trolling needs to stop. There's no reason for these types of posts. Friendly debates and discussion is totally acceptable but personal attacks and deliberately changing the course of the thread will not be tolerated any longer. For those that don't understand or just refuse to understand what trolling means, here's the definition for you -

The act of starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Those members who violate these rules will be subject to a warning, infraction or even a short term vacation from the boards. Those who continue to violate the rules may be given a permanent vacation from Archerytalk. All we ask of the membership is to be courteous and follow the rules. There are many new archers on the boards who are seeking advice or even longtime members who are asking a simple question. There's no reason for some of these inflammatory comments being posted. If you have nothing constructive to share, move along.

Thanks,


Archerytalk Administration


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