# Consistent arrows



## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

nock tune the arrows until they all print the same hole WITH me shooting them; no a machine. I don't spine test, float test, get them to all weigh the same, etc. Build them; shoot them in and go from there. 

Certain arrows take to tuning easier than others and certain setups have a longer lifespan than others as well.


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

First I buy gold tip

Second I tune my bow so it has really good arrow flight

Third I group tune them to the same hole using a hooter shooter

Done.


----------



## dunmoab (Apr 4, 2013)

Personally, my indoor arrows(East on X2s). I cut and square them then weigh. Weight all the points till Everything is within a tenth of a grain and align the nocks and glue in the points. once everything is the same weight then re-weigh. Then using a single jig... fletch.
I know that's being extremely anal but they'll hit the same hole consistently more than done without the previous steps.


----------



## TheLongbowShoot (Mar 23, 2012)

dunmoab said:


> Personally, my indoor arrows(East on X2s). I cut and square them then weigh. Weight all the points till Everything is within a tenth of a grain and align the nocks and glue in the points. once everything is the same weight then re-weigh. Then using a single jig... fletch.
> I know that's being extremely anal but they'll hit the same hole consistently more than done without the previous steps.


Thank you.
Should you worry about glue weight, or is that not noticeable enough?


----------



## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

Consistent spine is more important than a difference of a couple grains in weight. Like N7709K said, nock tune and you're good!


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Want a good dozen to start with? Then buy a bagged or boxed dozen of quality arrows. My last ??? 10 dozen targets arrows, fully assembled, all weighed within as little as .one tenth gr. and widest of 1/2 gr. Gold Tip, Carbon Express, Muddy Outdoors, and Victory all proved super for weight.

Straightness. I really can't tell the difference of the .0025" and .001". I did have a dozen target arrows that didn't come as straight as they should and a check at the company and I had a new dozen arrows. 

Spine. Important, but to what degree? I eyeball my arrows. Shafts big enough in diameter I fletch to the blemish line inside the shaft, said to be the stiffest. Evident must be true because my test is that all my target arrows must stay in a NFAA 20 target from 30 yards. And I've shot some awfully outstanding groups out as far as 80 yards. I believe I found maybe 3 or 4 in the last 10 year that didn't want to perform at longer distances, but were great practice or club 3Ds of 45 to 50 yards - only one club I shoot at scores bonus rings. 

I have yet to find glue-in type points to be off in weight to worry about. Same for pin nock bushings and nocks. Can't says for Gold Tip, but more likely just as good as Victory, Carbon Express and Muddy Outdoors.

Nocks. Some say that nocks should be replaced every 200 shots because of wear. I haven't found that to be sure, not with Bohning nocks. 

Shaft ends. I don't square, but my arrow saw is tweaked some and the blade set to just cut through the shaft wall and then I spin at the same time. Nor do I cut off both ends.

Vanes. I R picky. One color and from the same package and I buy 100 packs. I like 1 white and 2 blue, but these are selected for weight. Checks ends of bases for evenness. Just me, not that I found accuracy issues. Heck, I've fletched arrow backwards and still get in the bull's eye from 30 yards and hard on the X rings. 

Consistency goes farther than just the arrow. Some target bows will leave residue on the arrow shaft. Foam, plastic and grass type bales will eventually build up some residue, maybe not, but possibly that one arrow with a slight residue rise can wreck a possible good score. I carry a real copper pot scrubber with me - couple swipes and you have a clean arrow. If anything, a little lube does prevent build up. At the ASA State Championship I gave 3 scrubbers to some that were shooting with me. And I gave two more to others that complained of build up when we were totally scores. One for sure residue cost him a valuable 2 points.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

TheLongbowShoot said:


> What do y'all do for making consistent arrows?
> Do y'all match them to the exact same weight for the whole dozen or with a couple grain variance?
> Can you sort through arrows until you have a perfectly matched dozen or is it not too big of a deal?


What is GOOD enough for YOU?

Do what YOU need to do,
so you have 1000% mental confidence in your equipment.

ONLY when you have 1000% mental confidence in your equipment,
then,
and only THEN,
can you completely focus on other things,
like your form.

Now,
you can ONLY shoot to your ability to shoot.

Now,
you can ONLY tune to the ability you can shoot.

So,
if you build 3 arrows,
that are PLUS or MINUS 10 grains...

go shoot 60 yards, and see how TIGHT is the group.

Then,
build another 3 arrows
where the TOTAL weight is PLUS or MINUS 1 grain
and go shoot 60 yards, and see if it makes a DIFFERENCE when YOU shoot the bow.

Now,
if you are REALLY OCD,
build another 3 arrows at that are within 0.2 grains TOTAL arrow weight,
and go shoot 60 yards, and see if it makes a DIFFERENCE when YOU shoot the bow.

Nock tune,
Creep tune
French tune
Walkback tune
Modified walk back tune
Kitchen Sink Tune
Yoke tune
group tune your arrow rest

do all the methods of tuning you LIKE,
the BEST you can
for the arrows that are PLUS or MINUS TEN grains, and take a photo of your BEST 60 yard group.

do all the SAME methods of tuning you LIKE,
the BEST you can
for the arrows that are PLUS or MINUS ONE grain, and take a photo of your BEST 60 yard group.

do all the SAME methods of tuning you LIKE,
the BEST you can
for the arrows that are PLUS or MINUS 0.2 grains, and take a photo of your BEST 60 yard group.

See which photo is the BEST, TIGHTEST group.

This is the ONLY way...TheLongbowShoot can figure out
WHAT makes a difference for how YOU shoot.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

TheLongbowShoot said:


> What do y'all do for making consistent arrows?
> Do y'all match them to the exact same weight for the whole dozen or with a couple grain variance?
> Can you sort through arrows until you have a perfectly matched dozen or is it not too big of a deal?


TEST
EXPERIMENT
VERIFY

forget theory
and go figure out what happens,
when YOU shoot the bow, with YOUR arrows, 

with a LOT of grains variance
with a LITTLE bit of grains variance
with near ZERO grains variance in total arrow weight.

Nock tuning is VERY good,
and CAN make VERY VERY noticeable results
of course, depending on the quality of your arrows.

Just pick vane #1 to be at the 12-o'clock high position.

Then,
put vane #2 to be at the 12-o'clock high position, and see what happens. (label your arrows...#1, #2, #3...#12).

Then,
put vane #3 to be at the 12-o'clock high position, and see what happens. (label your arrows...#1, #2, #3...#12).


Each arrow might have a different PREFERENCE
for which vane (#1, #2 or #3 vane) to be on the 12-o'clock position.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

TheLongbowShoot said:


> What do y'all do for making consistent arrows?
> Do y'all match them to the exact same weight for the whole dozen or with a couple grain variance?
> Can you sort through arrows until you have a perfectly matched dozen or is it not too big of a deal?


Do you only shoot 20 yards?
LESS time of flight, gravity affects your arrows for a shorter period of time.

Do you shoot 80 yards (max NFAA field archery distance).
MORE time of flight, gravity affects your arrows for a longer period of time.

Do you shoot 100 yards (90 meters).
Even more time of flight, for arrow velocity to decay, and you cannot beat gravity.

Sooo,
if you are shooting 20-inch groups at 100 yards,
NOPE,
several grains will not make much difference.

If you are shooting 4-inch groups at 20 yards,
NOPE,
several grains will not make much difference.

If you are chasing 3/4-inch groups at 20 yards,
then,
who KNOWS...if several grains will make a difference for YOUR results,
for how TheLongbowShoot gets results.

FiND your sweet spot,
for what makes a difference or not.

Get 1000% mental confidence in your equipment,
and then,
keep going with your training,
shot execution,
form,
mental focus.


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

You can spend all the time you want making sure your arrows are mechanically identical - weight, spine, FOC, all that. But the final proof is you shooting them.

Number each arrow and plot their impact points over several practice sessions. You'll soon see if any don't group with the rest.


----------



## TheLongbowShoot (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks,
I shoot the Easton Fatboys. I have never shot as consistent arrows before.
I shoot 20 yards indoor. I average each round a 25 with 4x's.


----------



## dunmoab (Apr 4, 2013)

Glue weight doesn't differ that much. However, I weigh them after glueing them in anyway.


----------



## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

How much money and time you can spend making a perfect dozen?.............A sky is a limit.
X-10's or nano pro's cost arms and legs, plus parts, plus your own labor time, 
you have to be extremely anal when the $100's bill's flying out from hands, 
to collect a perfect single dozen in your quiver you are looking at least 3 dozen shafts to work through, this already over 2K in costs....I know some fella's having over 20-30 dozens collected through past seasons, and many times some will show up in classifieds for "cheap". I have bought in the past nano pro's for half a price, still good enough for Field practicing, but I would not go live scoring with these.
:wink:


----------



## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

N7709K said:


> nock tune the arrows until they all print the same hole WITH me shooting them; no a machine. I don't spine test, float test, get them to all weigh the same, etc. Build them; shoot them in and go from there.
> 
> Certain arrows take to tuning easier than others and certain setups have a longer lifespan than others as well.


If using a lizard tongue rest do you nock tune with a fletched arrow using the 3 available choices or do you bare shaft tune?


----------



## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Here's how i nock tune- pick three outta the doz and start shooting at a Vegas face. If three good shots result in three arrows that printed behind the dot; I grab the next three and move on, if they don't print behind the dot on good shots the nocks get rolled and a different vane gets indexed up. If all three positions don't yield an arrow that prints behind the dot I'll pull the nock and try again; if it's still the same result I'll square the nock end and check and make sure the shaft is straight. If the arrows are borderline on spine I'll play with different nocks and see how groups react


For indoor arrows bareshaft is a waste of time. Once you have the arrows all impacting the same you need to tune the bow to YOU and your best scores; I've yet to find a good scoring indoor setup that bareshafts semi decent... And I've gone through a lot of them


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

And then some box store chops off a dozen factory fletched arrows that gives 300 60X scores.


----------



## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> And then some box store chops off a dozen factory fletched arrows that gives 300 60X scores.


This store is located in Hogwart's Castle, right next to the magic wand store?


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Rick! said:


> This store is located in Hogwart's Castle, right next to the magic wand store?


If you don't think it can be done, go back to Sand Box class.


----------



## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

But it's more important how many up they shoot on a 3d course right? Or if they'll post a 560?

If you have your shot down a 60x isn't hard; take a doz off the shelf that spine out "correctly" cut and build; scores aren't gonna change on more than I/o count. Even if they aren't spined "ideally" a 60x is doable, hell a high x Vegas game is doable with off the shelf factory fletched arrows- been there and done that. But if you are going to put the effort into the given game at hand you need to build and tune accordingly. Each game takes different methods and has different tricks to get the best overall performance out of your setup in all conditions. Indoors is all about getting the smallest group size; how you go about getting there isn't as important as getting there. Outdoors it's about matching and tuning the arrows to your bow and to your shot style; lots of tuning and lots of tuning to shave 1/8" or less off groups at distance, but it pays off in the end.


----------



## Strodav (Apr 25, 2012)

On my target arrows, I measure the spine at the label and 90 degrees from the label, straightness, and weigh them on a precision digital scale. I add pin bushings and nocks, fletch them, then weight them again. I file the glue in points to get every arrow +/-.5 gr of each other. I then number them based on similar spine. Finally, use a home made hooter shooter (Ryobi miter saw bench based) to look for any fliers. May be able to nock tune then refletch some of the fliers. Out of a dozen premium arrows, I usually find 2 that won't group, the others are fine.

With that said, I've seen very good shooters with less expensive arrows like Easton Carbon Ones, don't do any matching at all and are always at the top of the results sheets. I've come to the conclusion I need to spend more time at the range and less time at my workbench.


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Nicely built arrows give a sense of pride and confidence, but when you start playing and testing you find out maybe a things aren't as critical as you think. Square ends, I don't do it. Super check for spine, I don't, not really. Vanes, as said I get picky, but I also play and nope, can't say critical of build. Spine required, sometimes, but too weak I don't like. 

Playing with vanes, tearing off one, fletching backwards. Also done with Bohning Mini Blazer to prove a point to Pro Staff shooter. Proved, he had me tune his bow and then he did the same thing, two fletched in the X ring. Green with ProElite set to 62 pounds. Blue, red with MarXman set to 56 pounds. 20 yards. Carried the reverse vane in my quiver just to razz people and it will go in the X ring from 30 yards. 















Spine needed for 20 yards? Same 400 spine arrow, just changing point; 80 gr glue-in. 47 gr insert + 85 gr field point for 132 grs. 47 gr insert + 100 gr field point for 147 grs. 47 gr insert + 125 grs field point for 172 grs. 47 gr insert + 145 gr field point for 192 grs. Only vertical sight correction needed, no windage. 111 grs actual difference. Found was 47 gr insert and 85 gr field was a bit more forgiving. Bow used, Martin Shadowcat set to 55 pounds.


----------

