# To have a cock vane or not?



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

In a word, No, you do not need a cock vane of a different color. My hunting arrows are all the same color as is some of mine target arrows. What you describe is called Nock tuning, turning the nock to get best possible flight. Have some spare nocks on-hand as several times I have found the nock the problem.


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## 17ghk (Nov 11, 2009)

Thanks Sonny T.I have noticed some broadheads in the same pack fly better than others on certain arrows so I thought maybe tuning or turning the arrow a little also would help.


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## Chris Morton (Apr 4, 2008)

If you haven't already, spin test your broadheads and arrows - all of them. You may find the ones flying poorly have some wobble indicating either an insert misalignment or bad broadhead.


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

I use three vanes of the same color on all my arrows, have for years. That's what the little bump on one side of the nock is for, so you can index your arrows by feel, and without even looking at them. An added benefit of this is when you tear a vane, you don't have to have two different colors on hand in order to fix it depending on what vane you tore.


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## STUDENT-ARCHER (Jun 26, 2009)

Ohio 3Der has it 'bout right. I do much the same, to indicate cock feather I will use a perm. marker to add a number to each arrow. The numbers make it very easy to keep track of arrows that do not group with the rest. Bad arrows should be inspected carefully and spin tested, if no defects found try refletching after rotating nock 90degrees.
I firmly think 2" Blazers are about the best thing going for hunting, and I target and 3-D shoot with Micro Blazers. Good shooting!


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

The Easton nocks have a little raised line on one side that I use....I always keep that side to the left and I can load the arrows by feel instead of having to look at them....

SB


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## Roskoe (Apr 15, 2007)

I also use the same color for all three fletchings, and mark the cock fletch with a fine tip magic marker. If your arrows didn't fly that well with the Blazers, you might make sure that you don't have a clearance problem - or that the archery shop put them on with a noticable offset. If they put the Blazers on straight, they won't shoot fixed broadheads very well.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

Allot of good input.

The cock feather positioning is a requirement when shooting off the shelf in traditional archery. This minimizes fletching contact with the sight window and/or rest.

Spin testing...absolutely. This will indicate how squarely your tip and insert are with the shaft. 

Used nocks are always suspected as well as the squareness of the nock end of the shaft.

If you are using a mechanical release, orient fixed blades vertically. When using fingers, horizontally (you don't want air planing as the first few feet of flight the arrow does not spin, when the fletching takes over the planing is negated).

I like all red.


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## Axa (Oct 18, 2009)

konrad said:


> Allot of good input.
> 
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> If you are using a mechanical release, orient fixed blades vertically. When using fingers, horizontally (you don't want air planing as the first few feet of flight the arrow does not spin, when the fletching takes over the planing is negated).
> ...



Can you explain that a bit deeper.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

If one if using a mechanical release, an arrow tends to oscillate in an up-and-down fashion when leaving the bow (vertically).

If using fingers, the arrow will oscillate from right-to-left (horizontally).

Upon firing, the arrow does not begin rotation for some 15 feet and during which time (remember the oscillation is still going on), the blades of your broadhead will “catch” the air and direct the front of the shaft in one direction or another. 

Then the fletching begins rotation and shaft stabilization but the shaft is already flying in the wrong direction. It may only be a fraction of a degree but enough to cause a change in point of impact as compared with field points. Field points do not tend to catch air.

The idea is to minimize blade air deflection and give the fletching a chance to provide stabilization.

In other words, if using a release, orient the main blades in an up-and-down configuration.
If using fingers, set the blades parallel with the ground.

If you are using a four blade head with all blades of equal dimensions, orient one set vertical and one set horizontally. If using a three blade head, place one blade on top or bottom with all arrows set the same.

All of this discussion also points to the importance of the arrow being pushed straight up the center during the shot (tuning/center shot).
Also remember that the center of the riser is not necessarily where the bow is applying the most force.
Many times experimentation is the only way to find this true center of pressure.

I hope this helps!
K


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## harkybowhunter (Aug 13, 2007)

Interesting comments Konrad. I have been setting up my spare bow and was puzzled where my muzzy excelerator rest ended up in relation to the riser. I was really working thru the tuning process to learn some things and ended up with near bullet holes for paper tuning. But to my eye the rest was farther from riser than it should be. However your comment makes sense and I can't argue with results I see.


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

I too fletch all my personal arrows with the same color vanes.

Also.........


According to my findings during paper tuning, my arrows start to rotate far sooner than 15 feet.


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## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

For hunting it is advantageous to use at least one light colored vane/feather to assist in blood evaluation. Unless you have a light/white wrap. Otherwise mono-color is cool.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

Interesting, it is far better to begin rotation sooner than later.
Maybe mine are kicking over too. 
It's what I've read in a number of places (the main idea for the Turbo Nock) as it takes air movement across those surfaces to initiate rotation.

I have done paper tuning at 10 yards (my “standard”) and can find no evidence of rotation. Maybe I'm not realizing what I'm looking at?

I use the 2 inch Blazer in a Bitzenberger helical clamp, off-set to the maximum my fat shafts will accommodate.
What vanes/feathers do you use and which jig/degree off-set?
How are you determining rotation?


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

Rotation.....

It should show relatively clearly with a helical fletch. I can determine thru paper that rotation occurs very soon after the shaft exits the bow. I position my arrows on the rest in the classic "cock vane up" position. At no more than 5', the tear pattern in the paper shows clearly that the vanes have imparted rotation and you can trace that rotation in the paper by starting close and moving back a step at a time. Watch and see if the tear marks of the vanes move as distance increases. Try it and see for yourself if you don't get similar results.

I use a right helical clamp with Blazers and like you, I try to get as much heical as the shaft will allow.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

To be more precise, I should have said in my original posting something to the effect:
Full arrow stabilization does not occur until the arrow is well away from the bow. Rotation begins as air flow passes over the vanes; however, full rotational speed does not occur for some time and therefore minimizing broadhead planing is a highly desirable.

A good example is: A rifle bullet is at maximum rotational speed when it leaves the barrel because the rifling grooves engage the projectile immediately upon firing.
An arrow’s rotation builds with time of flight to its maximum as it is exposed to air drag…sometime well downrange.

Clarity, constantly striven for, is not always achieved on my first attempt!


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## Axa (Oct 18, 2009)

I guess the rotation starts significantly slower on an arrow with a wide and heavy broad-head, compared to a bareshaft that are much lighter, and have all the weight close to the center of the arrow.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

All else being equal, you should be practicing with the tip weight you will be shooting as a broadhead. The center of balance on the shaft may be a little further forward due to the broadhead’s additional length but the change should be insignificant for our purposes.

Your point is also well taken in that the blades will be providing extra resistance to rotation due to the potential large side surface area. It would then stand to reason that it would take additional time of flight to reach maximum rotation versus that of field points.

All this highlights the importance of having the shaft start its journey in the most correct manner possible right from the beginning.


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

"All this highlights the importance of having the shaft start its journey in the most correct manner possible right from the beginning."

Very true !

Any guess as to how much frustration and gray hair can be attributed to the quest for this ?


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## JPHI (Dec 24, 2009)

Some good advice. For hunting a light fletch or a light wrap is important to evaluate blood. Numbering your arrows is also very important as it will help you identify problem arrows.

Konrad, when paper tuning you should be able to tune much closer than 10 yards. I tune between 4-6 feet. I believe that is the distance recommended by the Easton Tuning Guide.


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