# Wisconsin 8 year old hunters:



## ELKARCHER (Apr 21, 2003)

Bill to let 8-year-olds hunt shows adults short on sense 
By Judy Ettenhofer 
Has everyone in the Wisconsin Legislature abandoned common sense?


Yes, OK, hunting is "part of the culture" in Wisconsin. I get that. And, yes, the Department of Natural Resources needs the money from hunting licenses to carry out its programs. I don't have a problem with all that. (Except, as a person who spends time nearly every weekend tromping around on public land, I'd be more than happy to pay for a "public lands access" license - if the state would just ask me to.)

But sanctioning allowing 8-year-olds to hunt? 8-year-olds?! What kind of adult would think that's a good idea?

Astoundingly, 74 of 99 alleged adults in the state Assembly think it's a fine and dandy idea. Apparently, in voting for AB 586, they agreed with the bill's author, Rep. Scott Gunderson, that Wisconsin is so desperately running short of hunters that we need to manipulate these kids into the sport before they are old enough to make the choice themselves.


File photo
Jeffrey Sapa, 14, of Drayton, N.D., shown after shooting his first goose Sept. 3, 2005, was one week too late to meet the age minimum for shooting deer in North Dakota. 
Sure, and it's just a coincidence that Gunderson owns a sporting goods store, right?

The bill would allow children as young as 8 to hunt, with an accompanying adult age 18 or older. The duo could have one gun between them. The bill does not require children under the age of 12 to take a hunter safety education course; for that matter, the accompanying adult also doesn't have to receive safety education in certain circumstances. The bill puts the onus on the DNR to devise a safety pamphlet for such adults.

If a courageous family member of a teenage boy who died in a tragic hunting accident on Thanksgiving Day in Marinette County hadn't called this newspaper about this bill, it likely would have sailed through the Legislature without any eyebrows being raised. But since we wrote about Assembly Bill 586 a week ago, and other media picked up on our story, a small whirlwind of outrage has kicked up.

Consider just a couple salient facts:

As of the end of November, 34 hunting incidents had been recorded by the DNR for 2005. Eight, or 23 percent, involved shooters 16 or under, including the Marinette County fatality, in which the shooter was 12 and carrying a 12-gauge shotgun. That's not to say that all teenagers are unsafe hunters, but certainly their attention span and their steadiness can be less than fully developed. Now, consider the difference between a 16-year-old and an 8-year-old.

Pediatricians know well those differences, which is why the state chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics opposes AB 586. Dr. Tim Corden, medical director of the Pediatric Critical Care Unit at University Hospital, testified against the bill at a Senate committee hearing.

"The development level of an 8-year-old does potentially not match the skills they need to safely hunt," he told this newspaper in an interview.

Since I don't hunt, I contacted a few friends who do and asked them what they thought of this bill. One wrote me in an e-mail: "It's absolutely absurd!" He attributed it to a minority of hunters fearing their sport is threatened with extinction "so they come up with this harebrained idea to indoctrinate these little guys (and gals) at a young age to make them hunters, dammit!"

Another friend talked about teaching his son to hunt, starting with a BB gun when the boy was under 12. "This gave me lots of opportunity to watch and train him in the carrying and handling of a gun. There were lots of times in the early years when he was not carrying his gun properly and I was able to correct him, without much risk to me."

Indeed, this whole fiasco of a bill comes down to the issue of risk. In a society that claims to care so much about protecting children, it's hard to fathom that so many of our legislators could so casually want to put weapons into the hands of 8-year-olds.

We'll see if there are any wiser heads in the state Senate, which has yet to vote on the bill. In an apparent attempt at damage control Sen. Mary Lazich has introduced an amendment to AB 586 calling for youngsters under 12 to have to receive hunter safety education before picking up that rifle or shotgun.

It doesn't make the bill any less stupid.

I'm still wondering if there are any adults in the house.

Judy Ettenhofer is opinion editor of The Capital Times. E-mail: [email protected]
Published: January 30, 2006


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

Yet another emotional argument against parent rights. Of course, this person ignores the facts that when children are taught responsible firearms handling at a young age, they are the safest, most responsible hunters in the woods, bar none.

If the parent is irresponsible, so will be the child. However, most hunters today are pretty darned responsible (not all, but most). Methinks this writer needs an education. Not that it will matter. She is too wrapped up in her emotions to learn anything.


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## Hep (Jan 26, 2006)

*8 year old hunting*

I think it would be great.My 9 year old daughter sits in stands with me from time to time and its fun,but she does get bored.I would like to think its because she knows all of her hard work,getting up early,going scouting with me ect... is all for not,because when that pay day comes,and that nice deer, being buck or doe happens to cross that shooting lane,she knows all of her hard work is done to sit and watch.It would be rewarding for me to say,hey you take this one.If the situation is right and I feel there is no danger.Why not?I know a few adults I would care not hunt next to,but that doesnt stop them.Its not like I'm going to give my daughter a 300 win. mag and say light up the woods.If you watch realtree monster buck videos,I've seen Bill Jordan and David Blanton both with their sons I believe they were 7 and 8 shooting their first deer.It was great.I also believe no one was harmed in the production of that video! Wow. It all comes back to the adult over looking,coaching,and making the final decission.
p.s. were those youths in those shootings supervised?


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## ELKARCHER (Apr 21, 2003)

*The pro side:*

Arguments for a Lower Hunting Age
Jan 30, 2006, 03:57 PM PST 
By Jeff Alexander

A bill that would lower Wisconsin's hunting age from 12 to eight years old is getting closer to becoming law. Advocates of the hunting mentorship bill say it's all about saving Wisconsin's heritage.

Jack Gates and his ten-year-old son Zach would love to be able to hunt together -- under strict guidelies.

"One adult, one youth within arm's reach, with one firearm between the two," Larry Bonde, the Conservation Congress secretary, explained.

Bonde is a leading advocate for lowering Wisconsin's hunting age. He says concerns about safety are misguided, citing years of research and pointing to the fact that all neighboring states have lower hunting ages and 30 states have no age minimum at all.

"When you comb through accident reports all over the nation, when you have an adult within arm's reach, with one firearm, accidents simply don't happen. There's not a single documented case of an accident," Bonde claimed.

He added, "The safest group of hunters are 16 and under when accompanied by an adult."

Bonde also points to research that shows if youth aren't involved in outdoor activities by the age of 12, they simply won't have the interest.

He says right now, Wisconsin loses two aging hunters for every one hunter it gains.

"There's so many things that their time is challenged with now that a lot of kids go without that experience," Jack Gates realizes.

The bill already received passage by an overwhelming majority in the Assembly. The bill now sits before the Joint Finance Committee awaiting more public input.


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## KIT-HAN-NE Flinger (Jan 5, 2005)

*Believe what you will*

The american academy of pediatrics in my town in PA also had brochures in the waiting room that where anti-gun.And when my wife was asked to fill out a questionare about "medical info" one question asked Do you own firearms and if so how many?So to see any opposition from them is mute in my eyes.
It all comes down to being a personal opinion and after reading a few other stats from other more associated parties (sounds bias in my favor huh) I decided to share these with my local politicians prior to approving mentored hunting in PA.


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## Skeptic (Dec 11, 2005)

*Why is age an issue?*

I've seen 5 year olds I trust with a gun and 40 year olds I wouldn't want within 50 miles of one! I love it how the lady in opposition admits she doesn't hunt etc and never has. How bout trying something before passing judgement!!!!!


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## FarmBoy (Mar 28, 2004)

*8 Year Olds*

I have brought my kids up around guns and they have all shot bb guns since they were 3. I know some may think I am an idiot but my 5 year old knows the rules of safe gun handling better than most adults I hunt with. My 9 year old passed his hunter ed course ( Ohio has no age restrictions) on his own. Insisted on reading the test himself even though he had the option of having the test read to him by an adult who would explain the question and answers. No he didn't ace it but was danged proud to show mom his new hunting liscense. He hunted 4 times this year and his total harvest --- 2 geese. He got cold during deer season but at least he tried sitting in a buddy tree stand with me. I hunted with my buddies 8 yr old 5 or 6 times for ducks and other than he can't hold still keep quiet or stop eating he had no problems controlling the muzzle. So I guess in all my ramblings I think it should be up to me the parent to decide when they are ready and keep the govt. out of trying to raise my kids.


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## vermonster13 (Sep 18, 2004)

The anti's know that the longer they can delay a child from being able to hunt, the more likely they never will. Age legislation is a big priority in the anti camp.


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## treehug (Mar 7, 2005)

I hunt archery only. I won't get in the woods while the nine day gun season is on here in WI. My 10 year old is rearing to actually have the chance to to shoot at SOMETHING he can put in the freezer. If WI wants to promote hunting, all the state has to do is allow small game in an extended season. Why is rabbit only legal from September to early Januarary? The ones living under my deck need to be fair game all year, since they eat everthing I plant all year. Under responsable adult supervision, young kids should be able to hunt with bow or gun. It seems I recall freezing my tush off in a tree stand when I was 8 years old. I was also field dressing my first buck at 10 years old; SOLO, so I knew how to do it the next time. I have nothing against guns, as long as the people using them have a clue what is the target is. Ask our VP about gun safety. Unfortunatly, accidents happen and they tend to be more serious with guns. I still shot at the range and am a member of the NRA, so believe me, I want my children to be able have the choice of hunting either gun or bow. My personal choice of bow is just that; personal. If you want my opinion, no age limit is best. But if you screw up, your privilages should be suspended. Can you say learners permit? Not age limit!


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## mossihornslayer (Apr 1, 2005)

My Son Turned 8 In Dec. For Christmas In O4 I Got Him A Nef Youth 243. We Practiced Alot And I Taight Him About Safty With Firearms Since He Could Walk. This Past Season He Took A Spike During Doe Week. Then 6 Days Before His 8th Birthday He Took A 5 Pt At 150 Yards Breaking His Neck. Then He Took A 125lb Boar Hog. 10 Days Later He Dropped Another Boar In His Tracks, This One 135 Lbs. Every Time I Was Right There Beside Him Coaching Him. Its All About Safty And Responsibilty. Now I Bow Hunt Only. When Its Fire Arm Season I Dont Take A Gun , Its All Him. I This May Help Keep Our Youths Out Of Trouble With Other Things. Showing Them That The Woods And Outdoors Is A Great Place To Spend There Time. Instead Hanging Out Getting In Trouble. But Thats Just Me. Every One Else Can Let Theirs Run Wild


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## Hoyt Hunter (Jan 24, 2006)

I don't know what you are fussin about I started hunting when I was 7


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2006)

WOW, I'm going out on a limb here! I have raised my two sons who are now very big into hunting as well as fishing. In general everything outdoors. My husband and I went through hunter safety courses with our boy's at ages of 11 so when they turned 12 they were ready to go. For the most part some of the parents in the classes were less mature then the "students". 
I do know the situation with money and the DNR. I know many other states have it in place. I realize that fact that children need to be exposed to it now so the heritage can carry on BUT, **I work with children from the ages of 5-9 every day for 10 years and I'm truely sorry to say in all honesty only a hand full of children in those 10 years would I want to see a weapon in thier hands. The hand full of children that I did mention do to this day carry on the hunting heritage and that's because they were exposed to it from birth, hunting was a family tradition. The fact is the ones that will hunt show the interest early the others don't. It is the decline of the whole outdoor experiences at an early age and that is now handed down from generations. Don't put weapons in childrens hands because some "yahoo" immature parent thinks or believes it's thier parental right. I'm not sure what the answer is but letting 8 year olds carry isn't it. Maybe at the age of 10? Leave it at 12 and start educating the whole family into the outdoors. Parent recruitment as well as the children.


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## i_arch_360 (Jul 4, 2005)

docdo said:


> WOW, I'm going out on a limb here! I have raised my two sons who are now very big into hunting as well as fishing. In general everything outdoors. My husband and I went through hunter safety courses with our boy's at ages of 11 so when they turned 12 they were ready to go. For the most part some of the parents in the classes were less mature then the "students".
> I do know the situation with money and the DNR. I know many other states have it in place. I realize that fact that children need to be exposed to it now so the heritage can carry on BUT, **I work with children from the ages of 5-9 every day for 10 years and I'm truely sorry to say in all honesty only a hand full of children in those 10 years would I want to see a weapon in thier hands. The hand full of children that I did mention do to this day carry on the hunting heritage and that's because they were exposed to it from birth, hunting was a family tradition. The fact is the ones that will hunt show the interest early the others don't. It is the decline of the whole outdoor experiences at an early age and that is now handed down from generations. Don't put weapons in childrens hands because some "yahoo" immature parent thinks or believes it's thier parental right. I'm not sure what the answer is but letting 8 year olds carry isn't it. Maybe at the age of 10? Leave it at 12 and start educating the whole family into the outdoors. Parent recruitment as well as the children.


Docdo,
I think you would be right if that was the way the legislation is written, but in our case you aren't going to have kids tromping through the woods with a gun. The bill will be written to allow a kid who is in the company of a licensed hunter, ONE GUN, to harvest a deer. This is not to allow an 8y/o sitting 50 yds away from a licensed hunter to go possess a firearm by his or her self. My understanding of the bill is that they will have to be sitting in the same stand / blind with one weapon between them. The adult will have full control of both the weapon and shooter all the way up until he pulls the trigger. This is the same thing that many of us have been doing for years, and the way I learned to do it. Now it will just be legal


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

I arc 360 and fellow archerytalk readers,
I know the proposal and know how and what the Bill all details. The point I'm getting at is: Changes have been made that the "normal" household no longer exists. To many broken homes have left children with one parent which has left parents who really don't get involved. Like I said these are not just my words it is fact that I've seen for 10 years plus. The parents who will get their children involved are the ones who have that hunting heritage already in place. Of course there is always the exception to every case. To lower the age is not the answer but involvement to teach parents the the "Whole Outdoor Experience". We are losing people to the sport because to many people have lost the family tradition through the years. **"The Educational Family Outdoor Expo" is and will be the perfect tool that we need to get people back into the outdoors! (Beaver Dam, WI. May 19, 20, & 21 Fair Grounds)
Let's face it if your on this site chances you are involved with the youth in your life but believe me alot of parents aren't.


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