# Hinge Flat Spot?



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

After shooting my Sweet Spot II Ultra 3 for a long, long time I've started to delve into different hinge releases. The SSII has always served me well but I was convinced that trying something different may help me build a new shot. While this has been true, I'm also remembering that all hinges are not created equal. The first change I made was another TRU Ball, the BT Gold. I found this release to be very easy to rotate, in fact it almost rotates itself when you relax the thumb and index with very little assistance from the middle and ring fingers. The problem I had with the BT Gold was the finger sweep being deeper than I like. My ring finger hardly ever touched the thing so I really shot it like a 2 finger instead of the 3 that it was. A friend let me borrow his Stan Jet Black and once I got it adjusted to my liking I really liked the feel of the release, so much so I bought 2 of them here on AT. I love the sweep and fit but the problem I'm having with the Stan is with the rotation... it seems to have a dead spot in the rotation. I remember vaguely having this issue with other hinge releases but it was quite a while ago. 

I know this question may be better asked to a release engineer but what configuration in a hinge would rotate the easiest? What I mean by configuration is placement of the rotational pivot or any other factor I may not be aware of. TIA


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## Coug09 (Feb 4, 2007)

I have always found that the Scott releases rotate the easiest, by far. I also think they have the best feeling handles in the industry. Where they lack though, is in adjustment. TRU BALL has a very nice system, especially with the HT's. That being said, I'm all about feel, so I will take the extra time with the scott because it feels good. If you like minimal finger sweep, take a look at the Scott Pro-Advantage or Pro. You won't find any flat spots on a Scott.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Coug09 said:


> I have always found that the Scott releases rotate the easiest, by far. I also think they have the best feeling handles in the industry. Where they lack though, is in adjustment. TRU BALL has a very nice system, especially with the HT's. That being said, I'm all about feel, so I will take the extra time with the scott because it feels good. If you like minimal finger sweep, take a look at the Scott Pro-Advantage or Pro. You won't find any flat spots on a Scott.


Thanks I used to shoot a Long Horn many years ago.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I found that the Stans I shot with a click you almost had to dig them out of the clicker so to speak. Likewise with the Carter I had.
The HT3 doesn't seem to have that anywhere near as much and in general is an eye hinge to rotate. The Bernie's knuckle-under was the same.

Perhaps it's a question of both moon shape and handle geometry.

-Grant


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

grantmac said:


> I found that the Stans I shot with a click you almost had to dig them out of the clicker so to speak. Likewise with the Carter I had.
> The HT3 doesn't seem to have that anywhere near as much and in general is an eye hinge to rotate. The Bernie's knuckle-under was the same.
> 
> Perhaps it's a question of both moon shape and handle geometry.
> ...


To be sure I don't know what it is... just know it's frustrating when it won't go. Seems to hang just before the shot breaks. Love the fit though


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Funny, I love the head on the Stans but I hate the fit. Too narrow for me.

-Grant


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

where the head sits in relationship to the index and middle fingers and speed....


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

N7709K said:


> where the head sits in relationship to the index and middle fingers and speed....


So what would be the best configuration for rotating with a relaxed thumb & index with a little help from the middle and ring fingers? My Sweet Spot rotates nicely but I want to get away from the safety. My float is really good right now but I need more work on the backend.


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## bseltzer (Nov 20, 2014)

I'm still in the early stages of the hinge release "journey". I've been shooting a STAN BlackJack so far, and I've made good progress with it so far, but I'm not entirely enchanted with how it feels in my hand. it's size and overall shape are OK, but it feels too narrow top to bottom for me. I want to either grab it too deep like in a fist or hang it out on the very last joint of my fingers. Obviously, neither of these options is optimal. I've also tried a Zenith Comfort Plus, and I really like the feel of it. It sits very nicely between the second and third joints. But it's "speed" adjustment is well, coarse at best. So the question is, is there a hinge release out there than combines the feel of the Comfort with the micro adjustablity of the STAN?


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Something to try might be the TRUBall inside out X. You can adjust the position of the hinge on the handle as well as speed and even angle.
Might not be the worlds greatest hinge...but then again, it might be. What it does have is adjustability beyond any other hinge I know of.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The closer the head lays in relation to the index finger, the faster the release will rotate and fire. Finding one that suits your chosen method of firing and overall placement in your hand starts to fall into the category of personal preference and fit. You can experiment by placing your index finger at varying locations along the release head to find out which position is best for you.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

montigre said:


> The closer the head lays in relation to the index finger, the faster the release will rotate and fire. Finding one that suits your chosen method of firing and overall placement in your hand starts to fall into the category of personal preference and fit. You can experiment by placing your index finger at varying locations along the release head to find out which position is best for you.


I'm not understanding this?


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Basically, if the head of the release is angled more toward the middle finger, the release will pivot and fire more slowly than if it were placed more toward the index finger. Here are 2 3-finger hinges that show this. The first is Carter Atension with the head positioned more toward the middle finger and the second a Stan Black Jack with the head positioned closer to the index finger. 

View attachment 2159076
View attachment 2159077



Ignoring the sweep of the handle of the Carter, if just looking at the head placement alone, I can pretty much ascertain that the Carter would require a more agressive shot process to fire than the Stan. 

However, one could also make the Carter a little more responsive (easier to pivot) just by placing their index finger a little toward the left of center of the index finger cut out and inversely, make it a little slower by placing the same finger a little to the right of center of the cut out. That's what I meant by hand placement and overall fit. 

The shape of the base of the finger cutouts (flat or rounded) also have a strong bearing on how responsive a hinge is.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

it has nothing to do with "speed" of the rotation. it has to do with the bias of leverage between the bows load on the hinge and the leverage produced by the size of your hand. as Montigre suggested. the closer the pivot is to the center of your index finger, the easier it will be to rotate under the pressure of the bow's holding weight and/or your pull, into the stops. there are other smaller details , such as sear notch angles on the moon, in releation to the direction of applied resistant force, but basically these daetails are not dependant on applied resistance, because they are integral to the design of the sear geometry, and are constant to any resistance or rotational force applied to the geometry. basically, the same criteria that define trigger pressure in a modern gun trigger, is applicable to the geometry of a hinge's sear geometry. the arrangement of the geometric angle forces, are just slightly different because of the function of a hinge 
as well, thear shelf, on the moon, is a flat surface,... the only "flat spot'" is the result of an individual's process, and not the product of any specific release, itself. the geometries of a hinges sear, are extremely well known universally throughout the hinge design community. small variances between company design theories, in reference to sear angles and pivot location, are what assign specific hinge models, to being preferable for particular draw weight ranges and execution processes. 
I am posting this for the benefit of those who are interested, because there has been a lot of mis-conceived information posted so far.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

For me the loop material helps with the rotating and speed of release. I like the bcy D braid and zenith loop material super soft and its thin works get with hinge .


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

montigre said:


> Basically, if the head of the release is angled more toward the middle finger, the release will pivot and fire more slowly than if it were placed more toward the index finger. Here are 2 3-finger hinges that show this. The first is Carter Atension with the head positioned more toward the middle finger and the second a Stan Black Jack with the head positioned closer to the index finger.
> 
> View attachment 2159076
> View attachment 2159077
> ...


Yep, the closer the hinge itself it to the index, the easier it will be to rotate the hinge.
That's why I suggest the TRUBall inside out X. It's the only one I know that the hinge can be adjusted closer or farther from the index finger.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that's interesting. by the looks of the picture, do I understand that there is a "cassette', of sorts, that carries the pivot pin and you would remove it , and turn it around, to move the pivot location ?. it looks that way , to me. I haven't ever seen one up close and personal.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

You can rotate it and also slide it up the head.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I shoot a inside x at times and it is a very interesting little hinge with a feel of it's own to say the least.

Another hinge that I have always wanted to try is the scott black hole, I am a big fan of the longhorn and the black hole is a hinge that has a head that is a little closer to the index finger. In fact if you study the two new hinges that scott just came out with on the lancasters website the one with a hole in it is virtually just the black hole but they just put it in a exxus core frame with interchangeable 3 or 4 finger options.

I wish I had the money to drop on a 89 dollar black hole to put with my longhorns because lancasters has them on clearance.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

One thing you have to be careful about with hinges that put the head closer to the index finger is that they put a lot of poundage on the index finger and it is really pronounced and noticable and secondly it gives a much more noticable amount of percieved rotation so if you are a guy that doesn't want to feel what is happening in your hand you probably won't like them.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

montigre said:


> Basically, if the head of the release is angled more toward the middle finger, the release will pivot and fire more slowly than if it were placed more toward the index finger. Here are 2 3-finger hinges that show this. The first is Carter Atension with the head positioned more toward the middle finger and the second a Stan Black Jack with the head positioned closer to the index finger.
> 
> View attachment 2159076
> View attachment 2159077
> ...


I see these two releases differently than your explanation so please correct me if I'm misreading you. I see the Carter as having the pivot point closer to the index than the Stan. 



Mahly said:


> Yep, the closer the hinge itself it to the index, the easier it will be to rotate the hinge.
> That's why I suggest the TRUBall inside out X. It's the only one I know that the hinge can be adjusted closer or farther from the index finger.


The True Ball Fulcrum also has an adjustable pivot point. That said, I picked up a couple more releases today, a Longhorn Pro and a Backspin. Bothe seem to be easier to rotate. I'll need to play with the speeds some but I'm liking them so far but leaning towards the backspin which does rotate with ease.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

it's all about leverage against the sear tension, or pressure. as with any mechanical device that increases leverage, it comes at the cost of greater travel at end of the lever receiving the force that moves it..


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> I see these two releases differently than your explanation so please correct me if I'm misreading you. I see the Carter as having the pivot point closer to the index than the Stan.
> 
> 
> 
> The True Ball Fulcrum also has an adjustable pivot point. That said, I picked up a couple more releases today, a Longhorn Pro and a Backspin. Bothe seem to be easier to rotate. I'll need to play with the speeds some but I'm liking them so far but leaning towards the backspin which does rotate with ease.


EPLC, I just checked. For one the pictured Blackjack isn't set for fire. I set mine Blackjack and MagMicro Trio to fire or at the firing point about are right at the middle "t" form (what head mounts on). My Stan Deuce in my hand as to use has the hook near my index finger (okay, angled when in the hand). I would guess to put in words for some to understand, the Deuce is probably set kind of warm. At full draw and aiming (back tension engaged) I just take my thumb off the barrel and hang on until it fires, but if something amiss there's time to take hold of the barrel and back out of the shot. Set colder, it takes some back tension to fire it. 

I can take a picture of all 3 at the firing point and draw lines of angles of handles somewhat.

My Blackjack....It's something else. Some days, wow, nice, and the next day; "come on, fire you sucker." Perturbing is the no barrel MagMicro Trio easier to get along with.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> EPLC, I just checked. For one the pictured Blackjack isn't set for fire. I set mine Blackjack and MagMicro Trio to fire or at the firing point about are right at the middle "t" form (what head mounts on). My Stan Deuce in my hand as to use has the hook near my index finger (okay, angled when in the hand). I would guess to put in words for some to understand, the Deuce is probably set kind of warm. At full draw and aiming (back tension engaged) I just take my thumb off the barrel and hang on until it fires, but if something amiss there's time to take hold of the barrel and back out of the shot. Set colder, it takes some back tension to fire it.
> 
> I can take a picture of all 3 at the firing point and draw lines of angles of handles somewhat.
> 
> My Blackjack....It's something else. Some days, wow, nice, and the next day; "come on, fire you sucker." Perturbing is the no barrel MagMicro Trio easier to get along with.


Exactly the same issue I'm having with mine. Sometimes it goes off with ease and sometimes it seems as if it hits a wall and stops rotating. The thing about the Stan that is interesting is that the head actually changes position as you adjust the sear. The hotter you make it the more it looks like the one pictured.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Working with different releases lately has given me a new perspective on the path I need to follow. Today, shooting the Longhorn Pro and the Backspin allowed me to use my middle and ring finger more aggressively without messing with my float. The Stan would not allow this so I had to use a more relax the thumb and index engine... but the problem with that was the flat spots that would pop up just at the wrong time. As a result I've been letting down more than I ever have before. Last Saturday at a local shoot I let down every end at least once and more often than not, more than once. Some ends I let down on every arrow. I was the last person standing on every end but drilled that last arrow almost every time with several tapping their toes behind me I'm sure...


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

the bail changes position as you adjust it's engagement, but the pivot pin for the bail does not move. it is the location of the pivot pin, in relation to the fingers, that control how easily the sear engagement collapse against holding weight and pull into the stops, not the position of the bail itself. the engagement of the sear and hook, is adjusted by controlling the position of the bail at lock. the hook pivots in the bail, so, moving the bail's position in relation to the body of the rest, adjusts the engagement, or "speed" of the release, as some people mistakenly call it.
as I said above, the mechanical advantage of being easy to break the engagement of sear and hook, comes at a cost of a geometry that requires slightly more travel (Rotation, in relation to the amount of engagement) of the body of the release to accomplish collapse. 
it's all simple trigger geometry, the same as applied to a typical trigger on a gun. you desin a geometry that requires less force to accomplish collapse, and you pay for that with more travel required to produce the condition...... rule of leverage.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

EPLC sir, have you ever used a carter only one?


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

mike 66 said:


> EPLC sir, have you ever used a carter only one?


That is another unique hinge I was thinking of mentioning. Worth a look.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

And there are modifications. Wrap tape around index or ring finger groove to get a different set....


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

mike 66 said:


> EPLC sir, have you ever used a carter only one?


No, I have not. I'll have to look that one up as it is not familiar to me. In fact not many of the newer releases are as I've been shooting the Sweet Spot for so long... although I'm getting an education quickly...



SonnyThomas said:


> And there are modifications. Wrap tape around index or ring finger groove to get a different set....


Yes, been there done that but not in a while. I'd just prefer to find one that fits me and rotates well. The two Scotts I got today seem to be what I'm looking for but that may change as I get them set up properly and use them.


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## bseltzer (Nov 20, 2014)

Which Scotts' did you get?


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello
The Carter Only is a fine little release. I have 2.
Found using no 4 dot angle slide. Set on number 5 dot to fire. Works very well for me.

Now to a hinge and a hinge combination release.
I like a little body to a hinge release.

"So" I pick a body style I like.
Then I add a head frame .
And a Carter serrated 1/2 moon cam. For me is a must.

Now the head being closer to the index finger. Started many moons back. With the old grey style Stan release with the angle of the body neck.
And the old Grey Stan release is still a outstanding release body.

Taking the Stan release body. And changing the head frame to a Carter --Zenith or Scott hinge head frame. 
And my favorite 1/2 moon cam. I find them to be as good. As any high dollar release out there. [ Later


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

My Stan Blackjack. That short pulling post. I've got it out as far as I can get it and it's just too short for my liking. Brother made me a longer post out of stainless steel. I haven't picked it up yet.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

depending on the thread size of the post, (most of them are 8-32, that I've come across) you can make a decent sized "quicky-post" with a long 8-32 screw and a field tip insert for any arrow shaft.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

bseltzer said:


> Which Scotts' did you get?


Longhorn Pro and Backspin.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

montigre said:


> Basically, if the head of the release is angled more toward the middle finger, the release will pivot and fire more slowly than if it were placed more toward the index finger. Here are 2 3-finger hinges that show this. The first is Carter Atension with the head positioned more toward the middle finger and the second a Stan Black Jack with the head positioned closer to the index finger.
> 
> View attachment 2159076
> View attachment 2159077
> ...


This was an email response from Stan's tech support: "All of our hinges are designed to be able to pull with more than just your index finger. The hook is over the middle finger making draw with the whole hand possible."


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

EPLC said:


> The True Ball Fulcrum also has an adjustable pivot point. That said, I picked up a couple more releases today, a Longhorn Pro and a Backspin. Bothe seem to be easier to rotate. I'll need to play with the speeds some but I'm liking them so far but leaning towards the backspin which does rotate with ease.


Ah yes, The new fulcrum does as well, but it doesn't have the swivel head and replaceable 2/3/4 finger handles


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> This was an email response from Stan's tech support: "All of our hinges are designed to be able to pull with more than just your index finger. The hook is over the middle finger making draw with the whole hand possible."


I've had five of Stan hinges and still have 3. I think this is a kind of a standard Stan email response. I don't know of hinge I've tried where I couldn't draw with my "whole hand." Pull evenly with all fingers would have been more correct. Read Padgett hinge set up article. 
Just got back in the house from trying the 3 I have. The Blackjack and MagMicro Trio go off right at the index side of the middle finger. The Blackjack does have the head swivel to see. The MagMicro Trio doesn't show head swivel. My Stan Deuce (2 finger) goes off right on the inside of my index finger. Now, take in consideration of the "t" dividing the index and middle finger.....3/16" span?


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

yup, I think the trend to draw with just the index and thumb, evolved out of the necessity to draw while being sure the release isn't going to go off, obviously. it doesn't have to be done that way. 
I draw with my whole hand,..... when I happen to use a hinge without a safety,..... I simply angle the pulling force to favor the thumb-side of my hand. never a problem.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ya'll quit posting all these pictures of these releases. It's just going to make me go buy em all and that just ain't going to do anyone any good. Except TruBall and..... 

I use Carter Honey Do's which, for better or worse, can be drawn in any manner desired when the safety is engaged. They also permit a nearly infinite number of handle positions at anchor from which you can begin your final shot engine when the safety is released. This is both good and bad; good in that it adapts to the shooter rather than forcing the other way around, but bad in that an extra level of care has to be taken to insure consistency in the draw, anchor and release.

But through experimentation I've found that, settling in with an anchor with more tension on the IF and relaxed middle and ring fingers yeilds a very hot shot, where a more even finger pressure in the draw/anchor cools it off significantly. I use PBT with no intentional manipulation of the handle with the fingers, so my preference is even finger pressure. However, when I was trying other methods that involved expansion or increasing tension with the middle/ring fingers, I muchly preferred the more angled draw/anchor like with regular hinges w/o a safety. 

Just my findings...

LS


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that "cooled off shot' with even tension in your fingers is because your fingers and top of your hand, aren't relaxing. this sends signals to the muscles that control the fingers in your forearm, and doesn't promote the relaxation, there, that doesn't allow the muscles in your fore arm to relax , thus keeping the release in the position it is in, at anchor. when we keep tension in those elements, we have a natural tendency to maintain the position of the release in relation to the arrow and release, thus, resisting rotation.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

SonnyThomas said:


> I've had five of Stan hinges and still have 3. I think this is a kind of a standard Stan email response. I don't know of hinge I've tried where I couldn't draw with my "whole hand." Pull evenly with all fingers would have been more correct. My Stan Deuce (2 finger) goes off right on the inside of my index finger. Now, take in consideration of the "t" dividing the index and middle finger.....3/16" span?


Agreed. Just pulled out my stash of Stans and all of them go off most easily on the inside of my index finger. The oddest of the lot and most angled toward the index was the Stan III rope hinge (circa mid 90s, I think), but it's finger pad area is totally flat, so it lent itself to being a bit more rigid than the others. 

EPLC, not going to argue with you. I'm not blowing smoke about the finger positioning and have learned that when overly tense at a big competition and the release wants to hang up a little, rather than changing its setting (big no, no) I just move my index finger a little more to the left of center until my mind and body find its groove, then go back to holding it normally.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

montigre said:


> Agreed. Just pulled out my stash of Stans and all of them go off most easily on the inside of my index finger. The oddest of the lot and most angled toward the index was the Stan III rope hinge (circa mid 90s, I think), but it's finger pad area is totally flat, so it lent itself to being a bit more rigid than the others.
> 
> EPLC, not going to argue with you. I'm not blowing smoke about the finger positioning and have learned that when overly tense at a big competition and the release wants to hang up a little, rather than changing its setting (big no, no) I just move my index finger a little more to the left of center until my mind and body find its groove, then go back to holding it normally.


I wasn't questioning your finger position, just the configuration of the Stan. The reply was directly from a Stan service rep.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

For me the weight of the brass releases are a little better in getting the finger position the same all the time .


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

whow.. that new fulcrum looks pretty nice.thanks for posting this... has any one shot this thing?


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

EPLC, dont take this too personally i only speak from experience. But the 'hinge flat spot", really has nothing to do with the hinge itself. Its a 'mental flat spot', all hinges will rotate with relative ease, we just have to let them. be careful in the hunt for the perfect release, its just not out there.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ron w said:


> that "cooled off shot' with even tension in your fingers is because your fingers and top of your hand, aren't relaxing. this sends signals to the muscles that control the fingers in your forearm, and doesn't promote the relaxation, there, that doesn't allow the muscles in your fore arm to relax , thus keeping the release in the position it is in, at anchor. when we keep tension in those elements, we have a natural tendency to maintain the position of the release in relation to the arrow and release, thus, resisting rotation.


... cut and paste and add to shot checklist..... 

LS


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Topper1018 said:


> EPLC, dont take this too personally i only speak from experience. But the 'hinge flat spot", really has nothing to do with the hinge itself. Its a 'mental flat spot', all hinges will rotate with relative ease, we just have to let them. be careful in the hunt for the perfect release, its just not out there.


Yes been there done that but this isn't my first rodeo. Actually I find they all do not rotate with the same ease. Currently I have 4 different hinge's and all behave differently.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> Actually I find they all do not rotate with the same ease. Currently I have 4 different hinge's and all behave differently.


Hooks/sears for Stans should all be the same, but I thinking the cost isn't all that bad. Available is also a clicker sear.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

the hooks and sears may be the same, in all their models, but the ease at which the rotate, has nothing to do with the hook or sear..
I too, firmly believe that the "flat spot", some people talk about is a component problem of the execution, not the release. I very highly doubt that they a re built with some kind of "defective flat spot" in the sear, because the sear surface is a flat spot milled into the moon for the hook to rest on. the only thing that predicates how easily the sear and moon collapse, is the location of the bail's pivot pin and the angle of that flat spot, relative to the forces put on the hook, through the location of the bale's pivot pin. 
a little understanding about "trigge rgeometry" will make this evident.
I also very highly doubt any wear of the sear surface would ever create any sort of deformation that would cause some sort of difficulty in collapse, if that's what one might think. the hardening of those parts are so far beyond the stresses they see, no wear would ever happen. 
I've built a couple hinges of my own, using unhardened , stainless 306, for the moon and hook, about 15 years ago, and both releases work as good as new, to this day. the stresses in those areas,... from a bow,... are just simply not high enough to compromise the mating surfaces of those parts that get the load.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello
Still think the flat spot one speaks of. Isn't in the design of the release. But the Repeatable consistent release angle to anchor, the release is being held to. Later


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

unk, I believe you are absolutely right. despite the location of the pivot pin, your execution should run the same, whether the release is slightly easier, or slightly harder to rotate. the "flat spot" comes when the effort required os either above what we are used to needing to develop, or, as some form of "hitch" in the mental internal administration of the process.
all of my posts, are an attempt to suggest that the release's design, has nothing to do with it.


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## spicman (Dec 1, 2003)

Topper1018 said:


> EPLC, dont take this too personally i only speak from experience. But the 'hinge flat spot", really has nothing to do with the hinge itself. Its a 'mental flat spot', all hinges will rotate with relative ease, we just have to let them. be careful in the hunt for the perfect release, its just not out there.


this is what i was thinking


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## spicman (Dec 1, 2003)

Unk Bond said:


> Hello
> Still think the flat spot one speaks of. Isn't in the design of the release. But the Repeatable consistent release angle to anchor, the release is being held to. Later


or this???


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Unk Bond said:


> Hello
> Still think the flat spot one speaks of. Isn't in the design of the release. But the Repeatable consistent release angle to anchor, the release is being held to. Later


While it is absolutely true that you should have consistent repeatability in all aspects of your shot, the release does have an impact from a leverage perspective. As someone pointed out earlier, this is a simple matter of leverage. The closer to the index finger you put that pivot point the more rotational leverage you will have on the middle and ring fingers. That said, drawing the bow in this condition will require more pressure on the index finger during the draw cycle. While the Stan pictured would be easier to draw, the Longhorn Pro is easier to rotate... The issue I have had with the Stan is that I tend to pull more with the middle finger than I do with the ring finger which I believe is causing the flat spot. The Stan configuration also increases the leverage of the index finger. I believe my issue is a direct result of the increased leverage of the index finger combined with significantly reduced leverage of the middle finger which puts more of the leverage burden more on the ring finger... which is problematic for me.

BTW, the Stan s a fine release, very comfortable. I "could" develop a new firing engine to work this out but I think I'll just go with what feels more natural to me and go with the Scott as I do not have any draw issues.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that's the whole reason there are different hinges to choose from. different companies have different design philosophies about what a "good release", should have . neither are "right, or "wrong" in any mechanical sense, just different. it is up to the individual to decide which works better for him/her. as I said before, the unavoidable problem with that, is the cost of arriving at that decision. it's pretty hard to try a release for a few shots and make a long term decision based on those few shots made, in the short time you try a different release. at one time, on this site, on the old forum, there was a shop advertising that they rented releases, just for the purpose of being able to shoot one for a long enough time to have a decent idea of which release you shoot better. if I recall, you paid a fee, and then could exchange releases with them, for a specified amount of time, per fee charge.
that's an ideal situation, but i'll wager, that they didn't always get the releases back, and obviously, dropped the program because of it.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ron w said:


> that's the whole reason there are different hinges to choose from. different companies have different design philosophies about what a "good release", should have . neither are "right, or "wrong" in any mechanical sense, just different. it is up to the individual to decide which works better for him/her. as I said before, the unavoidable problem with that, is the cost of arriving at that decision. it's pretty hard to try a release for a few shots and make a long term decision based on those few shots made, in the short time you try a different release. at one time, on this site, on the old forum, there was a shop advertising that they rented releases, just for the purpose of being able to shoot one for a long enough time to have a decent idea of which release you shoot better. if I recall, you paid a fee, and then could exchange releases with them, for a specified amount of time, per fee charge.
> that's an ideal situation, but i'll wager, that they didn't always get the releases back, and obviously, dropped the program because of it.


Yes, no right or wrong, just different. With regard to finding the right one: You could also have a friend with a boatload of releases that he was unloading, try them out and end up with a couple (true story)...


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

to be honest, I've had my Solution2, for so long, I don't know if i'd be able to hang on to a different release, my hand is "solution2-shaped". !


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Topper1018 said:


> EPLC, dont take this too personally i only speak from experience. But the 'hinge flat spot", really has nothing to do with the hinge itself. Its a 'mental flat spot', all hinges will rotate with relative ease, we just have to let them. be careful in the hunt for the perfect release, its just not out there.


After trying several configurations over the past couple of days I believe this is "partially" true in the sense that while the different configurations react somewhat differently, each will have tradeoffs as a result... and you can hang any of them. With the pivot closer to the index a release does tend to rotate easier, but you also have to exert more pressure on the index finger to both control the rotation and to draw the bow safely. More index finger pressure can be problematic. With the pivot point closer, or somewhat over the middle finger you get a safer draw cycle but less leverage with the middle finger, leaving the burden more on the ring finger. After experimenting with different finger pressures I've gone full circle and gone back to the Stan Jet Black as the comfort of this release (for me) is outstanding. I do find that the release "likes" a little more ring finger pressure than I've been used to applying but I'm working on that. I have been shooting the same release for so long I forgot much of the trial and error I experienced a while back...


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

yes, you can "hang" any of them, and it's not the release that hangs, it's your execution that hangs, with that particular release. that's not the release, doing the "hanging", it's you.


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## lknchoppers (Jun 13, 2008)

Joe from Zenith explained to me, If you are shooting with a click, the sear can get hung up in the click. The shallower the click the easier it is to get the sear to pass it. Hinge head position makes a big difference.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

all true, but what doesn't work for you, may work for someone else, so the hang up, is not intrinsic to the release, it is operator generated through incompatibility with a specific execution. in other words,...the release does not make the execution run.
I believe what Joe was referring to, was the fact that the depth of the click, requires different release travel and effort to accomplish the collapse that is the release firing. that travel and effort, is dependent on the users level of generating effective rotation, in his or her execution. if you have anexecution that generates minimal effective rotation, a deeper click, will be harder to get out of, than a shallower click. that's why they make moons with clicks of varying depths for those who want to use a click. they can select the click depth that best suits their generation of rotation.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

lknchoppers said:


> Joe from Zenith explained to me, If you are shooting with a click, the sear can get hung up in the click. The shallower the click the easier it is to get the sear to pass it. Hinge head position makes a big difference.


Yes, and even without the click, these releases respond quite differently depending on the overall configuration, pivot point and height, thumb peg height and position, finger sweep, etc. I'm having to rework my firing engine slightly to accommodate the pivot position over the middle finger of the Stan... but it seems to be working out well.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

EP, if u use a click, the Stan clicks work a bit differently as the number refers to its length. The .006 needs more rotation to reach the click and then less rotation to shot break. The .010 clicks "earlier" and allows more rotation to break the shot. If you didn't get the .006 (add'l hook included with new purchase) with your Jet Blacks and want to try either flavor, pm me. Of course, if u are using the smooth hook, this is just an fyi.

To stay on topic, my Stan hinges have a built-in tension/relaxation sensor - too much tension or not enough relax and they force a let down.  You may also find it useful to switch to your spare after the primary one warms up from finger contact or gets a little slimy/slippery from body oils.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Rick! said:


> EP, if u use a click, the Stan clicks work a bit differently as the number refers to its length. The .006 needs more rotation to reach the click and then less rotation to shot break. The .010 clicks "earlier" and allows more rotation to break the shot. If you didn't get the .006 (add'l hook included with new purchase) with your Jet Blacks and want to try either flavor, pm me. Of course, if u are using the smooth hook, this is just an fyi.
> 
> To stay on topic, my Stan hinges have a built-in tension/relaxation sensor - too much tension or not enough relax and they force a let down.  You may also find it useful to switch to your spare after the primary one warms up from finger contact or gets a little slimy/slippery from body oils.


I'm not using the click on the Stan but I would like to hear more about the tension/relaxation sensor? Sounds like a built-in "hang"  Seriously... what is that?


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

same -same-....... the .006 click needs less rotation to break the shot off than the .010. the numbers represent the amount of shelf, in thousandths of an inch, that is supporting the hook. higher number = more shelf supporting the hook = more rotation needed, to get the hook off the shelf. I have never seen a hinge, where the clock position of the shelf, cannot be adjusted to facilitate a preferred angle for your hand, in relation to starting your execution, once the click sounds. the amount of rotation to the click, is regulated by the clock position of the click, in relation to where the bail sits in it's fully safe, "pre click', drawing position. the numbers have nothing to do with any aspect of operation, before the click sounds.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

Topper1018 said:


> EPLC, dont take this too personally i only speak from experience. But the 'hinge flat spot", really has nothing to do with the hinge itself. Its a 'mental flat spot', all hinges will rotate with relative ease, we just have to let them. be careful in the hunt for the perfect release, its just not out there.


I'm in full agreement with this. Small changes in pivot point position have some effect but compared to the power we can apply with our fingers and back, these small differences are easily overcome. Try shooting all of your hinges with your eyes closed and they always work without a hitch. It's more of a mental problem caused by a target being introduced. Find the release that fits in your hand just right and stick with it. Naturally I recommend a Zenith, the most comfortable and reliable BT on the market at a price you can afford. www.zenitharchery.com


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

zenarch said:


> I'm in full agreement with this. Small changes in pivot point position have some effect but compared to the power we can apply with our fingers and back, these small differences are easily overcome. Try shooting all of your hinges with your eyes closed and they always work without a hitch. It's more of a mental problem caused by a target being introduced. Find the release that fits in your hand just right and stick with it. Naturally I recommend a Zenith, the most comfortable and reliable BT on the market at a price you can afford. www.zenitharchery.com


While I agree with this to a certain extent, configuration does come into play especially when you are using a relaxation type of engine. Sure, you can rip through any release but some still rotate easier than others. When the pivot is closer to the index the release is more aggressive but the tendency with this configuration is to apply too much pressure with the index to draw the bow and then hold it back during execution... thus causing some difficulty in the rotation. Moving the pivot closer to the middle finger produces more leverage on the index, but less on the middle finger. The tendency with this release is to allow more relaxation of the index but having less leverage on the middle finger kind of forces the ring finger take on more of the burden. While each of these scenarios is actually a shooter driven issue, each needs to be addressed with slight modifications to the firing engine. I had no such issues with my Sweet Spot, but I shot that model for at least 10 years. Because the sear is built into a head that floated the speed was always the same, regardless of hand position. Since I'm having to relearn to shoot without a safety my hand position has become more critical. I've switched back and forth between several releases over the past couple weeks or so... with click, without click, etc. During this learning curve cycle I've shot both good and bad. Like anything new, this is to be expected.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

It would seem an engine that adds pressure to the ring and middle fingers would like a hinge closer to the index.
An engine used relaxing the index may work better with the pivot closer to the middle finger.
It really depends on where your rotating the hinge. 
I see adding pressure to the middle and ring finger having the fulcrum on the index, and relaxing the index moving the fulcrum to the middle finger.
Different head positions will be better for different engines (at least ones that use manipulation to fire).
Sounds like your on the right track!


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Mahly said:


> It would seem an engine that adds pressure to the ring and middle fingers would like a hinge closer to the index.
> An engine used relaxing the index may work better with the pivot closer to the middle finger.
> It really depends on where your rotating the hinge.
> I see adding pressure to the middle and ring finger having the fulcrum on the index, and relaxing the index moving the fulcrum to the middle finger.
> ...


You probably said it better than I did, but this is exactly the reactions I am getting from these two configurations.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

zenarch said:


> I'm in full agreement with this. Small changes in pivot point position have some effect but compared to the power we can apply with our fingers and back, these small differences are easily overcome. Try shooting all of your hinges with your eyes closed and they always work without a hitch. It's more of a mental problem caused by a target being introduced. Find the release that fits in your hand just right and stick with it. Naturally I recommend a Zenith, the most comfortable and reliable BT on the market at a price you can afford. www.zenitharchery.com


Like I really need another release, but sent off a inquiry.....


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Like I really need another release, but sent off a inquiry.....


The Zenith and Scott hinge releases favor a more index favored pivot while the Stan's have a pivot that is more over the middle finger. Both Zenith and Scott have several different head heights to offer as well. This can be somewhat of an issue if you have a mix as this will impact anchor point, and I'm sure leverage. I believe the TRU Ball is more neutral but still favoring the index somewhat, but I'm not looking at one. All of these will work well but may require minor to major tweaking of your firing engine. Finger sweep is another factor that can impact execution. I've never been a big fan of the sweptback ring finger that has been popular for some time now. It's refreshing that some of the release manufactures are producing some without the swept back fingers. This is one of the things I really like about the Jet Black and why I have a Honey Badger Claw on its way as I write this... and an Inside Out X. Hey, after all is said and done I may just end up back with my Sweet Spot...


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## chevman (Nov 3, 2006)

Eplc..try wraping electrical tape around the ring finger on that scott pro. Wrap it until it is almost completely filled in. It gives you even finger tention with the middle finger and avoids hangups. I have a injured ring finger on my release hand(wont close all the way) and could not get the release to fire consistantly.....to many hangups. Now with an even load on all fingers at anchor, the shot breaks everytime at the same time.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

EPLC said:


> The Zenith and Scott hinge releases favor a more index favored pivot while the Stan's have a pivot that is more over the middle finger. Both Zenith and Scott have several different head heights to offer as well. This can be somewhat of an issue if you have a mix as this will impact anchor point, and I'm sure leverage. I believe the TRU Ball is more neutral but still favoring the index somewhat, but I'm not looking at one. All of these will work well but may require minor to major tweaking of your firing engine. Finger sweep is another factor that can impact execution. I've never been a big fan of the sweptback ring finger that has been popular for some time now. It's refreshing that some of the release manufactures are producing some without the swept back fingers. This is one of the things I really like about the Jet Black and why I have a Honey Badger Claw on its way as I write this... and an Inside Out X. Hey, after all is said and done I may just end up back with my Sweet Spot...


Paul,
I only recommend the extended head version for those who want to shoot with a deep grip and don't have the room behind the head for their middle finger. My thought was to keep the basic release design the same though out my whole line of releases (16 models). That way I can recommend the proper fit and people can keep the same feel when changing release sizes.
Joe B.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

chevman said:


> Eplc..try wraping electrical tape around the ring finger on that scott pro. Wrap it until it is almost completely filled in. It gives you even finger tention with the middle finger and avoids hangups. I have a injured ring finger on my release hand(wont close all the way) and could not get the release to fire consistantly.....to many hangups. Now with an even load on all fingers at anchor, the shot breaks everytime at the same time.


I've already taken care of that... I traded it. In fact I got rid of several of my releases over the past couple days. Of course replacements are on the way to me as well


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

zenarch said:


> Paul,
> I only recommend the extended head version for those who want to shoot with a deep grip and don't have the room behind the head for their middle finger. My thought was to keep the basic release design the same though out my whole line of releases (16 models). That way I can recommend the proper fit and people can keep the same feel when changing release sizes.
> Joe B.


Not knocking your products Joe, you make a nice release... I still have one. I was Just pointing out that different head heights, if someone has a mix, can be an issue. This is one of the other issues I've run into having several different releases with different sweep angles, head positions and head heights. Just too many things messing with my engine all at once. It may take me a couple more weeks but I'm going to settle in with one and dump the rest.


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## chevman (Nov 3, 2006)

EPLC said:


> I've already taken care of that... I traded it. In fact I got rid of several of my releases over the past couple days. Of course replacements are on the way to me as well


Lol...gotcha.


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Not knocking your products Joe, you make a nice release... I still have one. I was Just pointing out that different head heights, if someone has a mix, can be an issue. This is one of the other issues I've run into having several different releases with different sweep angles, head positions and head heights. Just too many things messing with my engine all at once. It may take me a couple more weeks but I'm going to settle in with one and dump the rest.


Paul,
I hope you find the right one. Hope to see you this summer at the NFAA outdoor.
Joe B.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

zenarch said:


> Paul,
> I hope you find the right one. Hope to see you this summer at the NFAA outdoor.
> Joe B.


My plan is to be there.


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

I agree there is not one perfect release, good luck with that!!! Different strokes, for different folks. Everyone activates a hinge a little different, some squeeze the release, some squeeze and pull, some relax the hand, some relax and pull, etc, etc. Every hinge will hang up! Sometimes having several different hinges, switching back and forth, can help keep you fresh. Sometimes having a couple of the same, set at different speeds in your release bag, pulling them out at random, not knowing which one it is, can help keep you fresh! I think when you use the same one all the time, you get to know it to well?? Makes it much easier to anticipate the shot. Kinda helps keep the honeymoon thing going. But like some have said, I don't think the release is really hanging up, you are hanging up! I do it all the time! If I can't relax, it don't go well!! The release is just like the bow, a mechanical device, that will repeat itself. Soooo if it slides off well sometimes, and hangs up sometimes, is it malfunctioning, I don't think so!! It is a very simple device, not much to go wrong with it!! Sometimes, with a lot of use, the click can wear, but that's about it!!


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

Now a relaxed shot, is a whole other topic!!! LOL


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

yup, a "relaxed shot" and the "relaxing", in reference to running the release, are two completely different subject matters.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

pennysdad said:


> Sometimes having a couple of the same, set at different speeds in your release bag, pulling them out at random, not knowing which one it is, can help keep you fresh! I think when you use the same one all the time, you get to know it to well??


Though it may seem logical that identical releases in the bag would promote randomness, it is not true in my experience. I can tell the difference between my two identical releases by their temperature and slight geometry differences that make for a different feel in the hand. This is due to my not "bagging" my release between every shot, I find it inefficient to remove it from my hand, load another arrow and and then pick it back up again, but that's just me. Hanging, for me, is 10% fdp, 10% relaxation and 95% mental.

I started shopping for a new release, saw EP was scouring the classifieds for the same ones I was interested in , and realized that I need to tune my shot and mental processes better rather than picking up more hardware...


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

While there certainly is truth to the claim that any release can hang up, configuration combined with firing engine technique, can and will make this situation either better or worst. Each release has it's own little quirks, wants and needs and each one will require some actual hands on learning to get the most out of it. 

When people use terms such as "everyone" and "every release" or every "anything" I believe some are speaking "way" beyond their actual hands-on experience. Recently I've been experimenting with different hinge configurations and I can assure you they all react differently. I speak as one that has been shooting various hinge releases for over 15 years. For the past 10 years (approximately) I have been shooting a Sweet Spot II three finger which has a safety and a floating head. I had no issues with hanging this release but had peaked with it and wanted a change. Switching back to a standard non-safety hinge has been a interesting journey, one that has had a learning curve. For anyone to claim or elude to there being no difference in release activation based on configuration, especially those that have been shooting the same release for "years", should perhaps actually shoot something with a different configuration before making these apples to apples claims.

Now with all that aside, my intention is to pick one release and go with it. Currently I have several to choose from: 

1. Honey Badger Claw (arrives today)
2. Inside Out X (will be here Monday)
3. Stan JetBlack (currently using)
4. Scott Backspin (currently out for repair) 

This process could take as long as it needs to select "the" one, but once settled in, the rest will go. Keep eyes open for the "sale"


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## zenarch (Aug 3, 2002)

I think one thing that's being overlooked here is the use of a d loop vs. a rope on the release. With a d loop all hinges tend to "load up" due to the release head starting against the stops on the handle. Any rotation CCW from that point on is just winding up travel into the entire system. The sear won't move at all until you get the handle back to the position where it's designed to work. The more upright the head, the worse this situation becomes. Laying back the head helps solve the load up problem but at the expense of the back of the head hitting your middle finger. The d loop also puts the entire holding weight of the bow onto the sear. With a rope mounted on the release, all these problems are solved. The head swings out away from the stops when you draw and the sear will move with any rotation of the handle. The pressure on the sear is now halved because the rope is also pulling where it goes through the head. The downside is your peep rotation has to be more accurate since you can't rotate the d loop to where it pulls it into alignment. You also have to deal with wear on you serving where the rope wraps around it. The common set up in the old days was two tied on nocking points with the release rope wrapped below the lower one or just an upper nocking point with a rubber bead below the arrow to take up the forces of string angle. With todays radical string angles, you also need long ears on your nocks to keep the arrow from pinching off the string.
Bt releases work so much better with a rope, especially when using the click, that I'm thinking of going back to shipping my releases with a rope attached like I used to.
Paul, I think you'l find less of a hang up problem with this configuration and much more sensitivity in the way the release turns.
Joe B.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

zenarch said:


> I think one thing that's being overlooked here is the use of a d loop vs. a rope on the release. With a d loop all hinges tend to "load up" due to the release head starting against the stops on the handle. Any rotation CCW from that point on is just winding up travel into the entire system. The sear won't move at all until you get the handle back to the position where it's designed to work. The more upright the head, the worse this situation becomes. Laying back the head helps solve the load up problem but at the expense of the back of the head hitting your middle finger. The d loop also puts the entire holding weight of the bow onto the sear. With a rope mounted on the release, all these problems are solved. The head swings out away from the stops when you draw and the sear will move with any rotation of the handle. The pressure on the sear is now halved because the rope is also pulling where it goes through the head. The downside is your peep rotation has to be more accurate since you can't rotate the d loop to where it pulls it into alignment. You also have to deal with wear on you serving where the rope wraps around it. The common set up in the old days was two tied on nocking points with the release rope wrapped below the lower one or just an upper nocking point with a rubber bead below the arrow to take up the forces of string angle. With todays radical string angles, you also need long ears on your nocks to keep the arrow from pinching off the string.
> Bt releases work so much better with a rope, especially when using the click, that I'm thinking of going back to shipping my releases with a rope attached like I used to.
> Paul, I think you'l find less of a hang up problem with this configuration and much more sensitivity in the way the release turns.
> Joe B.


Thanks Joe, I haven't tried a rope in quite a while, and even then didn't really shoot one in that configuration... Certainly worth a try.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

zenarch said:


> I think one thing that's being overlooked here is the use of a d loop vs. a rope on the release. With a d loop all hinges tend to "load up" due to the release head starting against the stops on the handle. Any rotation CCW from that point on is just winding up travel into the entire system. The sear won't move at all until you get the handle back to the position where it's designed to work. The more upright the head, the worse this situation becomes. Laying back the head helps solve the load up problem but at the expense of the back of the head hitting your middle finger. The d loop also puts the entire holding weight of the bow onto the sear. With a rope mounted on the release, all these problems are solved. The head swings out away from the stops when you draw and the sear will move with any rotation of the handle. The pressure on the sear is now halved because the rope is also pulling where it goes through the head. The downside is your peep rotation has to be more accurate since you can't rotate the d loop to where it pulls it into alignment. You also have to deal with wear on you serving where the rope wraps around it. The common set up in the old days was two tied on nocking points with the release rope wrapped below the lower one or just an upper nocking point with a rubber bead below the arrow to take up the forces of string angle. With todays radical string angles, you also need long ears on your nocks to keep the arrow from pinching off the string.
> Bt releases work so much better with a rope, especially when using the click, that I'm thinking of going back to shipping my releases with a rope attached like I used to.
> Paul, I think you'l find less of a hang up problem with this configuration and much more sensitivity in the way the release turns.
> Joe B.


This does shed some light. My Stan MagMicro Trio, the head is against the handle. I really doesn't appear to fire until the string is all but ready to slip off the hook. Set cold I can then rotate the handle to feel movement before it fires...


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

So here's what I've learned so far:

I cannot "pull through the shot" to execute, regardless of which release is used. I have to "hold" with back tension while I execute with some form of hand manipulation. I have several firing engines to accomplish the execution, depending on which release I am using.
Firing Engine #1: Relax thumb and index, keeping even pressure on the middle and ring.​Firing Engine #2: Relax thumb and index while increasing pressure on the middle and ring fingers.​Firing Engine #3: Relax thumb and index then remove thumb after achieving balance between index, middle and ring fingers. Gradually squeeze middle and ring fingers while index remains static.​
I'm finding the Stan JetBlack likes #1 but doesn't like #2 or #3 but the HBC likes #2 and/or #3 but not #1. I have a Inside Out X coming Monday and my Backspin should be back by weeks end. It will be interesting to see how each of those react.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

*Oh my!*

I've fallen in love with my Honey Badger Claw... but my Inside Out arrived yesterday afternoon. I picked it up, I held it in my hand, I drew the bow with it... tried to shoot it but it was set way too slow. Wasn't too impressed at first glance. I took it to the club this morning and not having adjusted it let a friend (RI Mike) try it. He said it was set too slow for him as well. Knowing that Mike and I have very different release speed requirements, with him being the much slower setting guy, I decided to play with the settings after I got home. After speeding the release up significantly all I can say is "WOW"! I don't think I've ever shot a release that wants to rotate like this one does. And it's not like you have a feeling that it is out of control, no it is a very smooth rotation that is very manageable. I'm still favoring the HBC but I'm very impressed with the Inside Out, and I didn't even swing the head. Very nice release!


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I wanted a straight handle on my release, so I got out the epoxy putty and now I have a straight handle. When my hand is relaxed the second joints in my fingers form a fairly straight line.

If you don't want to use epoxy putty, you could use some tape on the middle or ring finger notch to test how a different handle might help you.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

After purchasing/trading/bartering and trying at least 7 different hinge style releases over the past couple months I've found "the" one for me. The releases I tried were the TRU Ball BT Gold, HT 3, Honey Badger Claw and Inside Out. From Stan I tried the Jet Black 3 finger. From Scott I tried the Longhorn Pro and Backspin. I found them all to be excellent but each had something that I wasn't completely satisfied with (yes, I'm picky)... that is with the exception of one. I generally based my decision on several categories:

1. Fit and feel.
2. Drawing comfort.
3. Balance (fingers) at full draw. 
4. Rotational ease. 

And the winner is! The Scott Backspin!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Eplc, I hear you man. I shot the backspin a lot last summer and always did score well with it and then I got a hbc and some other releases and I shot them for a long time enjoying all of them but lately I have set up my back spin and have really enjoyed shooting with it. I just like the feel of it with the thumb peg in the outer position, for some reason it just has a feel that is aggressive feeling and it wants to send the arrow to the x.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Padgett said:


> Eplc, I hear you man. I shot the backspin a lot last summer and always did score well with it and then I got a hbc and some other releases and I shot them for a long time enjoying all of them but lately I have set up my back spin and have really enjoyed shooting with it. I just like the feel of it with the thumb peg in the outer position, for some reason it just has a feel that is aggressive feeling and it wants to send the arrow to the x.


I don't want to turn this into a release commercial but the Backspin is hands down the best in all categories for me. The only thing I do not like about it is the adjustment as it is the worst of the bunch. Of course there's a story behind this release that I feel should be told because Scott Archery really went above and beyond with this release for me. I got the release a couple of weeks ago and shot it for about 10 minutes, making a couple of adjustments. The clicker was active. During the course of making my initial adjustments, one of the set screws that lock the moon in place stripped. I tried everything to get that screw out but nothing worked. I even tried to drill it out. I called Scott and they told me to send it in so that's exactly what I did. In yesterday's mail there was a package from Scott Archery with a brand new Backspin inside. You can't beat a no question's asked, 100% guarantee!

http://www.scottarchery.com/img/guarantee.png


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

yup, hinges do work well with a rope. it changes all of the force vectors that account for how easily the hinge rotates to the dump under pressure. most people find that with a rope, the hinge is all but effortless to rotate.


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