# a sad day for 3d shooters



## s-xander (Jun 3, 2008)

ive been a member of a certain bow club for a few yrs now when i started i shot traditional i ve since switch back to a wheel bow needless to say it took some getting used to i was shooting in the 240 range 3 yrs later iv been shooting in th mid to high 280 s and on a real good day once i shot a 293
(it is 30 targets 11 ring dont count) anyways there has been 1 guy at the club ive always tried to beat not just to beat him but to reach a personal goal
cuz if i beat him that means im real good even for just once hell i would have been happy to tie him i thought this guy was just an awsome shooter i had a ton of respect for this guys ability plus i thought he was a stand up guy boy was i wrong this past sat. i beat him now my club shoots on sat and sun
so when i arrived on sunday i was informed scores no longer counted if you shoot alone or with familey and friends witch seemed kinda strange to me but i thought oh well at the end of the day i was accused of shooting with out paying for my shoot and of pencil whipping him now i felt several types of feeling that day anger being one but after that i was discusted that someone 
would go that far to try and discredit someone honnor and integrity by flat out lying about them cuz they got beat fair and square so i say it is a sad day for our sport when a loss means that much to someone i personally hope everyone who reads this remebers why we shot and i hope you all shot a perfect score at least once sorry for venting so long


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Good rule*

Your club has rules and you must abide by the rules. Most of us at clubs are tired of being pencil whipped, not saying thats what you did!

But there a reason they put that rule in effect.:wink:

Just go back and shoot against with someone and put up a good score and everthing will take care of itself.
DB


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## s-xander (Jun 3, 2008)

well i guess im wrong for still beleaving that it only takes a hand shake to seal a deal and the honnor system now im awear that there are a few bad apples in a bushell but to intentional try to deface a man for simpley out shooting you is wrong no matter how you look at


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't think Daniel Boone was putting you down.
All he's saying is, in this world we live in now we have to have rules in order to control the ones for whom a handshake isn't enough and a man's word has to be backed up with a bunch of affadavits.
I think one can still maintain his honor even while having to deal with rules with which we don't agree.


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## dbracer (May 20, 2005)

carlosii said:


> I don't think Daniel Boone was putting you down.
> All he's saying is, in this world we live in now we have to have rules in order to control the ones for whom a handshake isn't enough and a man's word has to be backed up with a bunch of affadavits.
> I think one can still maintain his honor even while having to deal with rules with which we don't agree.


Dang Carlosii,

Ya know I don't usually read this thread - not that there is anything wrong with it. 

But I was skimming thru the comments and read this one. I have no idea what has been discussed, but this is a helluva statement. I mean it says a lot in a few words. 

A man knows his own honor, what others think may be annoying, but they are not the measure of the man. We all know pretty much how we stand before God. The rest doesn't matter. 

Good post, my friend

Respectfully,
dbracer


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## s-xander (Jun 3, 2008)

i dont think db was trying to put me down and i dont have a problem with the rule change but when one guy has the rules changed to suit his needs and to insaults someone because he got beat that i got a problem with 
again sorry for venting


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## dbracer (May 20, 2005)

s-xander,

You know what you shot. That's all that matters. Don't worry 'bout it. 

Did it once. You can do it again.

Respectfully,
dbracer


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

Go to the next shoot they have any wait for him to show up.Then shoot with him ,just hope you have your game on that day ,and kick his but.I say have your game on ,because we all have dad and if you have one that day ,well it might look the other way ,if you know what I mean.Good luck ,every club has them .


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## DannyB (Feb 19, 2005)

Did you shoot alone? If so make sure you shoot with someone or in a group. Removes all doubt and quite a rush to shoot a personal best in the company of fellow members. At our club we score 10,8,5,0 and don't score 11's (you get an x for a tie breaker if needed). I won our league scoring in the mid 270's with 28 targets out to 50+ yards and no range finders allowed. But if I shoot by myself I score 280 quite often. Doesn't happen in league very often, I guess the pressure gets to me a little:embara:. I'm sure if I shot by myself and listed (3) 280s in a row I would get a few eyebrows raised. I know that I'm capable, but since I don't do it in league (in a group) What might they think? I won't put myself in a position to be questioned.


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Pencil Whipping is a fact that is does happen............. I don't know why guys think that nobody will know. I know of some guys that will whip it locally. If I know they are at a tourney I will try to shoot with them or get somebody I trust to.............. If we were shooting for money I would break their group in a heartbeat. They are also good about if you get within 1/8th inch of a line they will give it to each other.........As long as we are competeing I don't care.


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## ultratec1 (Jan 3, 2005)

hutchies said:


> They are also good about if you get within 1/8th inch of a line they will give it to each other.........As long as we are competeing I don't care.




Man I know that there are few around here that do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats why the local 3-D's are just fun to shoot and not worry about turning your scorecard in. In all honesty whats the point?? Turn your card in so people can assume things about ya, or turn your score in just to have someone who had an extremely sharp pencil beat ya?? Nah not worth it to me. I'll just go shoot and make fun of whoever I'm shooting with that day.


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Sorry I menat to say as long as we aren't competeing.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

If you are turning in a score....then you shouldn't NEVER be shooting by yourself.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

> (it is 30 targets 11 ring dont count) anyways there has been 1 guy at the club ive always tried to beat *not just to beat him but to reach a personal goal* cuz if i beat him that means im real good even for just once hell i would have been happy to tie him





dbracer said:


> s-xander,
> 
> You know what you shot. That's all that matters. Don't worry 'bout it.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

s-xander,
Looks to me like you did what you set out to do. Congrats on the great round. :nod:


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> If you are turning in a score....then you shouldn't NEVER be shooting by yourself.




I agree.........


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## jjgsp (Sep 6, 2002)

I'm confused---I don't think it is acceptable under any circumstances to give higher scores for arrows that are 1/8" out. If you are competing then it is CHEATING. If you are not competing, it is just mental masturbation to fool youself into thinking you are doing well. Why do you want to fool yourself??


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

I don't get it either.........If you look I corrected my statement. Just typed it in wrong...........With these guys the only thing they are doing is limiting how much they know they are improving.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Children have been taught that it's ok to cheat, lie and steal under certain circumstances for years; why are we upset when someone does it to us...


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Your right Javi..........Seldom do you see parents put the belt to a kids butt anymore. I still believe in the belt and they apologize for anything they did wrong to anyone. My youngest grabbed a bag of skittles the other day when we left home depot. She's 3 by the way. I realized it outside the door. Made her go back in and apologize to the manager and clerk. She had not gotten them open yet. I offered to pay for them as long as they threw them in the trash but they insisted that I not and put them back on the shelf.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

An honest man never has a problem with his honesty being challenged because he knows he will be vindicated in the end. 

A prudent shooter shoots in a group so that any sense of impropriety is removed. Don't expect to win a tournament shooting by yourself. This isn't anything new.


.......................................................................................................................................................


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## hutchies (Jun 8, 2005)

Same reason I refuse to call my own arrows.


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## luvcamogirl (Apr 8, 2008)

If you are that good of a shot, then go shoot with fellow archers and shoot. It is always funner to shoot with other people than by yourself. That way you have nothing to worry about or nothing for other people to say about you.


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## Deerslayer25 (Mar 11, 2006)

I think we are missing the point. It is the age old Bubba system. "This guy always win, so you must have cheated" or "this is my buddy, you can't beat him so I'll DQ you" I've seen this happen at alot of little ranges where someone new comes in and they DQ them because they can't have they're club favorite lose.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

JAVI said:


> Children have been taught that it's ok to cheat, lie and steal under certain circumstances for years; why are we upset when someone does it to us...



Sad, but true.

Thanks T-ball, MTV and Nickelodian.


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## GWN_Nuge (Oct 1, 2004)

I got to be the impartial score keeper last year between two fellows... I guess because I call a spade a spade when scoring. The one fellow (open class) thought there was no way in heck someone could consistantly equal or top his score using a bowhunter setup, different class notwithstanding. Now these two guys are both top-shelf shooters but the open class fellow always had some smart remarks at each tournament when the awards were being handed out, etc. Must have thought the scores were being padded or something... big mistake on his part

It was pretty fun watching these two square off over the course of 40 targets. It was actually a very tight match until around target 30, a couple of mistakes and it was all over. Long story short the bowhunting setup prevailed for the one guy, the other fellow got schooled, no more comments made except "great shooting". A lot of respect was gained that day for each others game.

Cheers,


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## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

archerm3 said:


> An honest man never has a problem with his honesty being challenged because he knows he will be vindicated in the end.


I agree 100% with this one.


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## george myers (Dec 28, 2005)

i agree with both sides.the timing of the new rule of shooting for score can't be by yourself of with buddies is highly suspect.also i agree that shooting with different people every week and showing you're capable of shooting the good scores will certainly make your whining competitor look like a possum's p----r.it'll all come out in the wash.in the end you'll gain alot of respect.


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

Deerslayer25 said:


> I think we are missing the point. It is the age old Bubba system. "This guy always win, so you must have cheated" or "this is my buddy, you can't beat him so I'll DQ you" I've seen this happen at alot of little ranges where someone new comes in and they DQ them because they can't have they're club favorite lose.


I agree with you I have seen it alot too! and its bad for the sport 3D archery it turns alot of shooters off and they don't come to local 3D shoots anymore! clubs are going from 100 shooters down to 20 or less because of this non-sense! Archers should look out and help one another and when someone works hard at it and practices and gets his game on ! we should be happy for them and praise them!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I've had bad days and I've had good days.
Earlier this year I came a breath away from doing something that can cost a lot of $$ and a few weekends alone. I had a good day (not a great day) and shot maybe 8-10 points above my average on a 30 target course. A club officer made an extremely rude and insulting remark......... This guy of all the archers I've been around had no business questioning anyones integrity!! Now I hesitate to go back to this club. What if I have a bad or a good day and another remark is made? Nothing good can happen..................

My advice is to avoid the situation. .................:wink: Can you out run him? If so, help him pull targets one evening and explain/show him how you feel. Make sure there are NO witnesses to see you running after you drive the point home!!


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## Bugle'm In (Jun 28, 2006)

hutchies said:


> Pencil Whipping is a fact that is does happen............. I don't know why guys think that nobody will know. I know of some guys that will whip it locally. If I know they are at a tourney I will try to shoot with them or get somebody I trust to.............. If we were shooting for money I would break their group in a heartbeat. They are also good about if you get within 1/8th inch of a line they will give it to each other.........As long as we are competeing I don't care.


Been a problem around here this year too, two guys (father,son) in particular from the same area. They've been caught before and the club that they are members of had taken care of the problem but it's back.... I'm hoping they show up at the next shoot so I can invite myself to shoot with them:wink:
I had my yearly meltdown two weeks ago so I should be able to put up a really good game next weekend, hopefully that will take care of it. 
In our area all the best shooters want to shoot with eachother, I know I like having a nice mark on the target when I'm up and all the guys I shoot with do too. We've pretty much all shot bright colors for years too, if a new guy shows up in the flights with black he gets the idea fairly quickly, couple of comments and broken arrows will change a guys mind usually....


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## WHITETAIL1000 (Apr 15, 2008)

everyone should exerience one of those rare days when everything just clicks and you feel rock solid.


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

*Did you shoot alone?*

Maybe I missed something. I have to agree with Brown Hornet and a couple of others on here...You should NEVER SHOOT ALONE! The world you and I live in doesn't operate on a hand shake any more. Don't get me wrong I'm not accusing you of pencil whipping anybody. But, theirs way too many out there that do. So don't be surprised if you shoot alone and someone wants to protest.​Just like John-in-Va said go to next shoot and kick his tail again. That would be just like skull-draggin him in front of everybody.:wink:​


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## s-xander (Jun 3, 2008)

i shot with my son and i think he was more upset about all this than i was 
he kept score and helped me pull arrows on every target but its a done deal now im just gonna keep doing what ive been doing i will get the chance to shoot with this guy sooner or later he just better hope he is on his game when i do


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## completepassthru (Feb 3, 2008)

I had not shot in several months due to a shoulder injury. I went to my first shoot last july. It was a local shoot and about 75 shot in my class. I had to turn down my bow to be legal (280fps)and for my shoulder. I did not adjust my pins just compensated. I felt really good and was dialed in. One of the guys i was shooting with had been trying to get me to compete for a long time but i did not think i would have a chance. He told me to shoot for 10's and not worry about 12's because a little off and your in the 8. I knew i was shooting good so i did not want to know my score until the end. I was in the last group, when i turned in my score i ask what the high score was and the girl said yours is. I was absolutely shocked. I knew i had shot well and in the back of my mind thought there might be a chance. I even beat the guys in the classes with scopes and all that. I was very ignorant about classes and equipment differences. I won a nice bow case and to say the least was as excited as a school boy. Here is the downer. I wanted a good friend of mine to go shoot with us. He talked about how he used to shoot tournaments for years and how many he won. For some reason he will never shoot with me. I called him to tell him i won and guess what? He never came out and said it but he thought i had cheated. It bothered me some but i knew what i shot and i never called my own arrow one time. Being accused of cheating kinda hurts but i know my integrity and anyone who knows me does too. He knew i did not cheat but he was jealous and wanted me to know he was not happy for me at all. This same shoot is next weekend and guess what my friend will not go shoot with us. I have been struggling with my shoulder and have not shot in months. I have got a brand new Allegiance i just set up and i am going to take it and see what happens. I do not expect to win but i am going to have a great time, i have looked forward to this shoot for months. You know the greatest thing about these shoots is the fine folks i have met. It is kind of like church in the sense you are among folks like yourself (archers and Hunters). No phones or t.v.'s just your friends and the outdoors. It gives me a great sense of peace, comtentment,joy, and relaxation. I want to shoot more and more if my shoulder will let me. I apolagize for rambling on i guess i am like some preachers loooong winded.


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## la.basscat (Jan 16, 2006)

Just shoot head to head with the guy you are trying to beat. If you do than congrats to you if you don't then you'll at least have enjoyed the intense competition that drives the most of us. I usually try to shoot in the groups that have the best shooters in them. I may get my but kicked sometimes but it does make me shoot better.


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## njshadowwalker (Aug 14, 2004)

It happens all the time....buncha huys at the local club always turen in great scores. 290's every week. But when im behind them on a target and i ssee where there arrows land....my math doesnt jive with theirs! They can cheat all they want. When they get paired with me we swap cards. They will just look like fools at the championships...


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## 3-D Quest (Jan 26, 2007)

*Ditto!*



la.basscat said:


> Just shoot head to head with the guy you are trying to beat. If you do than congrats to you if you don't then you'll at least have enjoyed the intense competition that drives the most of us. I usually try to shoot in the groups that have the best shooters in them. I may get my but kicked sometimes but it does make me shoot better.


I Could not agree more!:darkbeer:​


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## camotoe (Sep 19, 2006)

Better ask them to define "family" and "friends"...Is my half brother's second cousin considered family? I'll bet everyone you've ever shot with at that club could be considered a "friend"...have them spell it out and ask them WHY


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

I know for me i have shot in sevaral turn. when my son and I shot by our selves and i shot good enough to win the money class butt because we shot with out wittnesses i always decline any winnings because I dont want to give people A chance to say I cheated. butt I know I won and thats what feels good. If you beat him one time you can do it again.just keep getting better.


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