# Left paper tear......can't fix it.... need help?



## Rhody Hunter

try a 400 . also check that the bow is in spec with ATA, brace hieght , tiller and center
shot. check for contact on the arrow. something sounds off


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## Rhody Hunter

double post


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## Roskoe

The Maxima 250 is a .400 spine. If your bow is all tuned to spec, skip right past the paper tuning and see where COC broadheads hit relative to field points. Adjust your rest so that you are trying to move the broadhead impact towards the field point impact. Paper tuning is just a step to save you some time in this endeavor, at least if you are a hunter. Most of the time it is a worthwhile step, but sometimes it just doesn't pan out. Sometimes it even leads you in the wrong direction. From what you have described, just move right into the BH/FP tuning. Easton's guide has a really good section on how to do this.


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## Rhody Hunter

here this is off the Mathews web site maybe this will help


No bow can be tuned and hold its tune until the bowstring and cables have settled in, which is from 25 - 200 shots depending on the quality and tensions during layup. When the peep rotates consistently to the same spot at full draw, you can assume the string has settled and the peep orientation can be corrected and that it is time to set the bow to specs, cam timing, and begin the tuning process. Paper Tuning a bow before the string/cables have settled only serves one purpose; that is, so the dealer can show the customer the bow was setup when it went out the door.

Persistent left tear (RH shooter) can be caused by many factors. These factors must be corrected prior to attempting paper tuning.

Idler Lean: This must be checked and adjusted first. If the string does not track true or near true off the idler at full draw, then torques caused by the roller guard and bow hand torque will cause string path deflection and reduce the effectiveness of centershot settings, even to the point of overriding centershot settings. When the centershot is so close to the riser that fletching contacts the cables or riser, or when the centershot is so far away from the riser the sight runs out of adjustment, that should be a Red Flag that idler lean needs checking. If adjusting the yokes will not correct idler lean, that is an indication a failure may be in progress: worn bearings, bent axle, limb crack, riser crack, etc., and the bow needs close inspection before continuing shooting.
http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=43030

Arrow Rest Height: Set the launcher to support the arrow at the berger hole height, this is where most bows are designed for the centroid of torques, where the forces at full draw above and below the berger hole are equal. If the arrow is mounted above or below the berger hole, it may effect nock travel during the powerstroke, besides making the bow less steady to hold on target. If nock travel is not level, it will effect how the arrow is driven into or off the rest. A low nock travel can create fletch contact with fall away rests, which cannot be corrected by rest timing.

Cam Synchronization/Timing: Changing the cam synchronization or timing can move the nock height, so it is best adjusted prior to tying in the nock point. Modern Dual cam designs don't have the cams working independently as they did in earlier designs, yet they must be checked for synchronization. Although the synchronization issues are much less than in the past, most dual cams (Hybrid, Binary, C1.5, C2.5, etc.) can benefit by tweaking; I assume the AVS cams will be no different. Make the adjustments after the string/cable has settled in, which takes 50 - 200 shots. You may want to take advantage of the shoot-in period to do some Blank Bale exercises.
http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=40940
http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=103809
http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=40837

Nock Height: Its always best to initially tie-in nock height/D-Loop slightly high for tuning purposes, with the arrow sitting slightly above perpendicular to the string. For various reasons, a nock height perpendicular to the bow string at rest may not produce level nock travel during the powerstroke. Cam design, limb balance (tiller), cam synchronization, etc. all effect nock travel in addition to nock height. Once you are assured of a slightly nock high tear, 1/4" high or less, you can tune from there.

Fletch Contact: Once you have a slightly nock high tear, it is still best to verify if there is no fletch contact. Use foot spray powder to check fletch clearance. If you have fletch contact and are using a fall away rest, the contact may be a result of low nock height driving the arrow down and into the launcher or being low enough to be hit during launcher bounce-back. Verify rest timing setting, if the rest appears to be properly timed, raise the nock slightly to see if the contact is eliminated before adjusting rest timing further.

Nock Pinch: Nock pinch will effect the arrow's contact with the launcher. There should be approximately 1/16" gap between D-loop knots, nock sets, nock set and eliminator button, etc., and the arrow's nock when the bow is at rest. This gap will close up at full draw. Placing two nock sets inside a D-Loop, especially on short A2A bows, can help eliminate string angle nock pinch, and make broadhead tuning much easier.

Once the above has been checked and set, you are ready to start paper tuning. Initially set centershot at 13/16" from riser to center of arrow, and nock height slightly high to begin tuning. Most fall away rests will end up at 11/16" centershot setting, so you may want to begin there, but you don't want to end up much inside of 11/16" on most bows. Form issues that can cause persistent left tear are bow hand torque (frequently a result of DL too long) and string path deflection due to string pressure on face (again, frequently caused by a DL too long), worn dual caliper release jaws, shooting off the string with release. You can't tune any better than you can shoot ... eliminate as many form issues as possible before attempting serious tuning.

Paper tune at 4' - 6', then move back to 12' to verify nock travel is level ... nock and point will be at same height. Adjust centershot as close as possible for a bullet hole. A bullet hole at this point is not necessary if you intend to move on to more advanced tuning methods. However, if you don't Walk Back Tune or Group Tune, I recommend the Short Distance Tune in the Easton Arrow Tuning and Maintenance Guide. Note: if you raise/lower rest height to adjust nock height, on some fall away rests that use a cord tied to the buss cable, this may change the rest's timing and cam's timing; recheck timing and readjust the rests timing cord if necessary and verify cam timing.

Some bows and some launchers do not shoot best with bullet holes in paper. Some cams, like the X-Force cams, are engineered to shoot/group best with a slightly nock high tear (check PSE Technical Bulletin). Some launchers, like the spring steel blade, shoot/group best with a slightly nock high tear. Before assuming a bullet hole is the solution for your bow's best performance, be aware of any technical, design differences that might dictate otherwise. For this reason, Easton Arrow Tuning and Maintenance Guide on page 9 points out that paper tuning and bare shaft tuning don't always guarantee the best groups, so Fine and Micro Tuning methods are provided.

FWIW, its my thinking that most paper tuning problems happen because the preliminary bow setup and checks are not diligently done and the eagerness to rush into tuning the bow quickly turns into frustration. If all the checks and preliminary setups are done first, paper tuning should only take about 5 to 10 shots, then you are ready to move on to more advanced, precise tuning method


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## scrapejuice

Rhody Hunter said:


> here this is off the Mathews web site maybe this will help
> 
> 
> No bow can be tuned and hold its tune until the bowstring and cables have settled in, which is from 25 - 200 shots depending on the quality and tensions during layup. When the peep rotates consistently to the same spot at full draw, you can assume the string has settled and the peep orientation can be corrected and that it is time to set the bow to specs, cam timing, and begin the tuning process. Paper Tuning a bow before the string/cables have settled only serves one purpose; that is, so the dealer can show the customer the bow was setup when it went out the door.
> 
> Persistent left tear (RH shooter) can be caused by many factors. These factors must be corrected prior to attempting paper tuning.
> 
> Idler Lean: This must be checked and adjusted first. If the string does not track true or near true off the idler at full draw, then torques caused by the roller guard and bow hand torque will cause string path deflection and reduce the effectiveness of centershot settings, even to the point of overriding centershot settings. When the centershot is so close to the riser that fletching contacts the cables or riser, or when the centershot is so far away from the riser the sight runs out of adjustment, that should be a Red Flag that idler lean needs checking. If adjusting the yokes will not correct idler lean, that is an indication a failure may be in progress: worn bearings, bent axle, limb crack, riser crack, etc., and the bow needs close inspection before continuing shooting.
> http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=43030
> 
> Arrow Rest Height: Set the launcher to support the arrow at the berger hole height, this is where most bows are designed for the centroid of torques, where the forces at full draw above and below the berger hole are equal. If the arrow is mounted above or below the berger hole, it may effect nock travel during the powerstroke, besides making the bow less steady to hold on target. If nock travel is not level, it will effect how the arrow is driven into or off the rest. A low nock travel can create fletch contact with fall away rests, which cannot be corrected by rest timing.
> 
> Cam Synchronization/Timing: Changing the cam synchronization or timing can move the nock height, so it is best adjusted prior to tying in the nock point. Modern Dual cam designs don't have the cams working independently as they did in earlier designs, yet they must be checked for synchronization. Although the synchronization issues are much less than in the past, most dual cams (Hybrid, Binary, C1.5, C2.5, etc.) can benefit by tweaking; I assume the AVS cams will be no different. Make the adjustments after the string/cable has settled in, which takes 50 - 200 shots. You may want to take advantage of the shoot-in period to do some Blank Bale exercises.
> http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=40940
> http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=103809
> http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=40837
> 
> Nock Height: Its always best to initially tie-in nock height/D-Loop slightly high for tuning purposes, with the arrow sitting slightly above perpendicular to the string. For various reasons, a nock height perpendicular to the bow string at rest may not produce level nock travel during the powerstroke. Cam design, limb balance (tiller), cam synchronization, etc. all effect nock travel in addition to nock height. Once you are assured of a slightly nock high tear, 1/4" high or less, you can tune from there.
> 
> Fletch Contact: Once you have a slightly nock high tear, it is still best to verify if there is no fletch contact. Use foot spray powder to check fletch clearance. If you have fletch contact and are using a fall away rest, the contact may be a result of low nock height driving the arrow down and into the launcher or being low enough to be hit during launcher bounce-back. Verify rest timing setting, if the rest appears to be properly timed, raise the nock slightly to see if the contact is eliminated before adjusting rest timing further.
> 
> Nock Pinch: Nock pinch will effect the arrow's contact with the launcher. There should be approximately 1/16" gap between D-loop knots, nock sets, nock set and eliminator button, etc., and the arrow's nock when the bow is at rest. This gap will close up at full draw. Placing two nock sets inside a D-Loop, especially on short A2A bows, can help eliminate string angle nock pinch, and make broadhead tuning much easier.
> 
> Once the above has been checked and set, you are ready to start paper tuning. Initially set centershot at 13/16" from riser to center of arrow, and nock height slightly high to begin tuning. Most fall away rests will end up at 11/16" centershot setting, so you may want to begin there, but you don't want to end up much inside of 11/16" on most bows. Form issues that can cause persistent left tear are bow hand torque (frequently a result of DL too long) and string path deflection due to string pressure on face (again, frequently caused by a DL too long), worn dual caliper release jaws, shooting off the string with release. You can't tune any better than you can shoot ... eliminate as many form issues as possible before attempting serious tuning.
> 
> Paper tune at 4' - 6', then move back to 12' to verify nock travel is level ... nock and point will be at same height. Adjust centershot as close as possible for a bullet hole. A bullet hole at this point is not necessary if you intend to move on to more advanced tuning methods. However, if you don't Walk Back Tune or Group Tune, I recommend the Short Distance Tune in the Easton Arrow Tuning and Maintenance Guide. Note: if you raise/lower rest height to adjust nock height, on some fall away rests that use a cord tied to the buss cable, this may change the rest's timing and cam's timing; recheck timing and readjust the rests timing cord if necessary and verify cam timing.
> 
> Some bows and some launchers do not shoot best with bullet holes in paper. Some cams, like the X-Force cams, are engineered to shoot/group best with a slightly nock high tear (check PSE Technical Bulletin). Some launchers, like the spring steel blade, shoot/group best with a slightly nock high tear. Before assuming a bullet hole is the solution for your bow's best performance, be aware of any technical, design differences that might dictate otherwise. For this reason, Easton Arrow Tuning and Maintenance Guide on page 9 points out that paper tuning and bare shaft tuning don't always guarantee the best groups, so Fine and Micro Tuning methods are provided.
> 
> FWIW, its my thinking that most paper tuning problems happen because the preliminary bow setup and checks are not diligently done and the eagerness to rush into tuning the bow quickly turns into frustration. If all the checks and preliminary setups are done first, paper tuning should only take about 5 to 10 shots, then you are ready to move on to more advanced, precise tuning method


thank you VERY much. I think I will need to check my bushings and axles. I have not changed anything on this bow since before season last year. I had it shooting very good last year. Thanks again for the info!!


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## nomad11

My 3 votes are idler lean, center shot on the rest and spine. For a left tear...move rest to the right (right handed shooter). Had a bow two days ago...two twists on the left side of the yoke followed by -2 twists on the right side of the yoke got rid of a 3/4" left tear. Actually those changes caused a slightly right tear....so had to go back 1/2 twist on each side of the yoke. Bullet hole with a bare shaft at 5-6 yards...w/ no rest modifications needed (for now). Am ready to give it a run on the range and do a little walk back tuning. If you feel your spine is right and are getting less than 1" tears...believe you can get rid of it by working the rest and yoke.


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## TMan51

Roskoe said:


> If your bow is all tuned to spec, skip right past the paper tuning and see where COC broadheads hit relative to field points. Adjust your rest so that you are trying to move the broadhead impact towards the field point impact.


Paper tuning has proponents and detractors, depends on who you're talking to.

Of all of the techniques that can be easily applied, BH tuning is the most straight forward, and with the bow at or close to spec, and a bare shaft entering straight from 10' out or so, can be accomplished in a couple dozen shots, if the proper spine and tip weight are used.

Before you get to crazy looking for bent axels or cam lean, which are actually quite rare, take a shot at BH tuning. It could save a lot of sweat.


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## MichHunter

Here is how I fixed my left tear that I could not get rid of. I also shoot a Drenalin. What you see below is from another post.

I was having trouble with a left tear that I could not get rid of. Instead of making another left tear post I read every left tear thread that I could find here on AT and on the Mathews Forum that dealt with left tears.

I had been working on it for days and at one point I had gotten two consecutive bullet holes but could not re-achieve them (This might have been with the same arrow.) 

After reading many posts I decided that the problem was in the yoke's split strings. I tried a number of different twist combinations in the yoke strings but I kept track of how the twists differed from the original number of twists so I could get back to my original yoke twist setting. In the end I ended up putting 1/2 twist in my left yoke split and taking a half twist out of my right yoke split. This is where my left tear was minimized. 

I decided to start numbering arrows and labeling holes. Out of a dozen arrows that I had bought I numbered seven of them and continued to shoot through paper and putting the arrow number on the paper next to the hole. I found that the same two out of seven arrows were giving me bullet holes every shot while the rest of the numbered arrows gave their own individual sized left tear. 

Well I decided that I would start rotating the nocks on the five arrows that were giving me the various left tears. I rotated my nock 120 degrees to change the cock feather. If that didn't work I rotated the nock another 120 degrees to try the third vane as the cock vane. I am using vanes!! Well it turns out that one of the two other vanes as cock vane would give a bullet hole. 

In the end, I had 11 arrows of the dozen left after I brought out the 4 I was saving for hunting (one was destroyed by a loss of concentration during hours of paper tuning). Nine of the 11 arrows I could get a perfect bullet hole with and the other two were still consistently giving me a very small left tear (like 1/8"). I am going to refletch these two but rotate the fletchings 60 degrees so the fletchings will sit between the previous fletchings. As a result I believe that I will get bullet holes with these two arrows. 

I don't believe my problem was fletching contact but my theory is, since the arrows flex the same way every time, by rotating the arrow I was changing the spine in relationship to the way the arrows were flexing. By rotating the nocks I believe that I was fixing a weak spine.

Through my thread searches I only found one that suggested rotating your nocks, and I believe that it was in regards to fixing fletching contact. Since I did not believe that I was having any contact (I had tried a bare shaft through paper and my tears only got bigger.) I did not try rotating nocks much, and when I did it was only a couple degrees.

In the end, I believe that by rotating my nocks 120 degrees at a time I corrected my spine.

I am posting my results in the hopes that I can help someone else.


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## nomad11

So scrapejuice...how much of a left tear are we talking about??? 0-1" or more? What are we dealing with?


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## scrapejuice

about 1/2". It was a combination of how i was holding(torquing) the bow and getting the right twists in the yoke cables. I got it fixed. Thanks to all you guys. Hopefully there is plenty info in here to help other people with similiar problems too.

Greg


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## corey006

Interesting thread with alot of good info.

I found something that I have been doing wrong on ALL my shot ATA bows over the years and it makes sense...


....Nock Pinch: Nock pinch will effect the arrow's contact with the launcher. There should be approximately 1/16" gap between D-loop knots, nock sets, nock set and eliminator button, etc., and the arrow's nock when the bow is at rest. This gap will close up at full draw. Placing two nock sets inside a D-Loop, especially on short A2A bows, can help eliminate string angle nock pinch, and make broadhead tuning much easier....

Will be changing my current D-Loop set-up today.


Thanx.


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## GMM

I have noticed with my Mathews bows I have to change my grip a little to keep from tourquing, for some reason they dont like to be gripped deep. It is just a slight change, I grip a little farther onto my thumb pad. I had a heck of a time with my outback the first time, until I figured this out. Now my other Mathews I have owned or still own shoot very good with the same grip.

I set the center line just to the my thumb side of the curved line by my thumb pad. 

Once you get a feel for it, it is actually pretty comfortable. Then you can check idler alighnment. Just pull it back and have someone stand behind you and look to see if the string tracks straight down the track in the idler.

Dont get hung up on paper. It is just a starting point. I have noticed that after group or BH tuning my bows shoot a 1/4" to 1/2" high left tear. Now I just go for that slight tear when I paper tune. Then check with broadheads and groups.


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## Bert Colwell

Been there, done that! Mine was due to idler wheel lean. When I installed new strings, I naturally twisted the yoke to make the idler straight. After setting everything up, I could not get the bow to tune. After fumbling with it for several days, I finally called Mathews. The tech told me to forget about cam lean when the bow was idle. He told me to twist the yoke to ensure the idler was straight at full draw. After doing this, with some help from my wife, the bow tuned great. At rest, the top of the idler leaned to the left when all was said and done, but was pefectly straight at full draw.


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