# Shooting "instinctively" at various distances



## Christopher1022 (Mar 2, 2015)

Something predictable but nonetheless amusing happened at the range about a month ago. I was shooting my recurve at 20yds and rather happy with my groups. A couple of guys in the lanes next to me were having fun by seeing who could pop the most balloons at 10 yds in an allotted amount of time. At one point I looked over and was surprised to see that neither of them had hit a balloon in the previous round. One of the guys invited me to take a shot and then laughed hilariously, of course when I not only missed the balloon but my arrow went sailing over the target completely. He then explained (now obvious to me) that my brain had not re-adjusted from 20 yards.

I have noticed that my first shot is sometimes off. I'm sure it would be frequently off beyond 20 yards. Since in hunting the first shot is the most important one, this seems to me to be an interesting problem. How does one train for first shot accuracy at any range* (let's say 5-40yds since recurve hunting happens frequently in that range)?

I am guessing I will get a lot of replies that say "Practice a lot at a variety of random distances with the same bow and same arrows and your brain will adjust." This is not unreasonable but I was wondering if anyone had some tips for placing their mind in the correct range.


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

Since the first shot is the one that counts many of us use some form of gap system. There are many. Personally I shot purely instinctive for about twenty years and still couldn't get reliably beyond 30 yards so I finally accepted the use of a gap system and sure'nough it works great. Today I keep my instinctive shots to 25 yards or less and use gaps for the tricky stuff.


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## camo_deerslayer (Sep 29, 2006)

I am by NO MEANS an expert, not in the least... However, I found that "stump shooting" helps me tremendously in regards to hunting preparation. I walk through the woods (or wherever..) shooting at dirt clumps, flower heads, etc. Makes my brain adjust on the fly. When I can do that, I try to mix up the ranges I shoot from at my back yard target...


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

This is one reason 3D became so popular. It used to be geared towards hunting practice but, as we all know, it has turned into a real competition event at almost every level.

I'm very luck in that I have access to a private 3D course. We have 20+ targets at 20 stations, some elevated, some wide open and some very constrictive. It really is good practice.

One shot and move on to the next target and you have another set of challenges to work out.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Chris - 

First, shooting over the target had nothing to do with thinking you were at 20 yards. The difference in trajectory just isn't that much, so something else happened. 

Like windrover said (sorta), if you're natural to instinctive, then all is fine and dandy. If not, you learn to shoot instinctively by learning a gap or point of aim system first.

The stump shooting or one shot and move on thing only works AFTER you have the basics is shooting and range estimation down. A lot of "bowhunters" are into that, not because it works, but because it masks mistakes.

Viper1 out.


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

I have been shooting "instinctively" for a half a century now. In reality there is no instinctive about it. Howard Hill describes it as a trial and error process where you hake elevation adjustments until the secondary picture of your bow hand is something you repeat subconsciously. Next time you have to walk to a door, open it and exit through the door way try consciously thinking about where your feet are going to land, when you should start reaching for the door handle, how hard you have to push or pull to open the door, which direction to turn the handle and by how much. Simple tasks become awkward if try and interject conscious thought where it is no longer needed.

After shooting a lot of arrows at reasonable distances say up to 30 yards instinctive shooting works pretty good. One consideration is that you can still pick a spot where you want the arrow to land. Over 30 yards things start to fall apart a bit. The target gets smaller target reference spots (the X) fade while the picture background gets proportionately larger. Cognitive dissonance rears it's ugly head and form and accuracy begin to erode.

A more mechanistic method is needed. Enter the GAP system. Now you have some repeatable elevation system which soon becomes a good friend.

"Instinctive Shooting" Shoot a lot of arrows (for me that meant thousands) at distances up to 30 yards. For over 30 yards find your point on and work on a GAP method. Be patient with yourself, Instinctive shooting makes learning to use the point of the arrow as a reference more of a challenge than you would expect. It does work though and can be beneficial to your Instinctive shooting picture at distances you are comfortable with shooting instinctively. Fred Bear wrote in his Archers Bible that the instinctive method is not suitable to target shooting because of the extra mental load associated with not having a mechanistic sighting method. I have spent a half a century trying to prove him wrong. I conclude that indeed Mr. Bear is correct.


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## acedoc (May 7, 2016)

Relating personal experience from a slingshot so keep it in perspective -

We lived on a farm and my mother would put out birdseed for the "desirables". Problem was crows that would firebomb the feeder. I used to shoot them with a slingshot from a window or door. I found my first shot to be generally most accurate - in fact I would rarely miss ! Later in the day once I was fully awake I would miss a lot!
I guess we tend to overcorrect and think way too much. Keep the form consistent and pick a spot.
I have even read about great shots like Corbett blame a miss on "too full " a sight picture.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

If you only shoot 20 yards then you are learning to shoot 20 yards. Your body knows how to position itself for 20 yards. I don't consider this instinctive. You don't need to visualize a trajectory; all you have to do is remember how to position your body. I think that before you can claim an "aiming system", you have to be able to shoot multiple distances. I am not arguing that you are not aiming when you only shoot one distance, just that you do not have an aiming system, even if you are gapping or stringwalking. I understand that this is a semantic argument, but I think there is value to looking at it this way. I have seen many folks who focus on one or two distances at the range. That is all they shoot. They go to the indoor range and shoot 20 yards. Shoot 20 yards at the same range enough, and you should be able to learn to do it with your eyes closed.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Can anyone who aims in a subconscious state lay claim to....

"A System"?

For me?...intuitive aiming is more the avoidance of a conscious system than it is the creation and adherence too one.


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

I utilize more of a feel technic. I just feel in my body positioning that my shot will hit. That comes from having done it quite a bit. I don't use numerical range estimation, or visualize trajectory. If you gave me the yardage, it wouldn't help me make the shot. If it effected it at all, it'd make it worse.

Your o p about varying unknown distances is pretty much how I learned. The thing I would change is only shooting one arrow from any spot. The most helpful thing would be to shoot one and go get it. Stumping is a huge help, just shoot one arrow from any spot. The best thing would be shoot a stump once and move on. 

You were concerned about hunting shots and that is the best way I can tell you. Your form has to be pretty solid first. Remember that not only are having to connect with that first arrow, but you'll have to do it cold. You won't have the benefit of 30 shots to warm up. That is why one shot at a stump and moving on is important. 

Stumping also helps you learn your arrows flight path. You'll learn which shots you can thread the needle with and where the interference would come from on the way to the target. Try it in a heavily wooded area with a lot of growth.


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

acedoc said:


> Relating personal experience from a slingshot so keep it in perspective -
> 
> We lived on a farm and my mother would put out birdseed for the "desirables". Problem was crows that would firebomb the feeder. I used to shoot them with a slingshot from a window or door. I found my first shot to be generally most accurate - in fact I would rarely miss ! Later in the day once I was fully awake I would miss a lot!
> I guess we tend to overcorrect and think way too much. Keep the form consistent and pick a spot.
> I have even read about great shots like Corbett blame a miss on "too full " a sight picture.


Interesting in that I did a lot of shooting a slingshot years ago and yes there is definitely a parity with instinctive archery. I gave up shooting a sling shot completely once I had a paper route and could afford arrows.
I found that the sling shot was not good for my archery shot (dropping my bow arm). Good bye sling shot which at the time I was very deadly with.


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

JINKSTER said:


> Can anyone who aims in a subconscious state lay claim to....
> 
> "A System"?
> 
> For me?...intuitive aiming is more the avoidance of a conscious system than it is the creation and adherence too one.


That's why I use "Instinctive" loosely as there is really nothing instinctive about it. After shooting many arrows the subconscious mind will produce a picture that your conscious mind trusts and confirms the height adjustment is correct. Paying conscious attention to arrow flight is important to learn how the arrow travels through space and as an aid in weeding out form errors. Aiming using the "Instinctive" method certainly involves conscious thought the conscious portion is focusing on the spot where you wish the arrow to land. The difference between the two aiming methods the Gap method utilized a mechanistic proven reliable system while Instinctive arrives at the aiming step through consciously evaluating where the arrow will land and through repetition can be delegated to conscious thought to execute correctly. For me without the yardstick of distance to the target all bets are off. either method. For me being able to accurately judge yardage is an absolutely necessary input for either method.


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> If you only shoot 20 yards then you are learning to shoot 20 yards. Your body knows how to position itself for 20 yards. I don't consider this instinctive. You don't need to visualize a trajectory; all you have to do is remember how to position your body. I think that before you can claim an "aiming system", you have to be able to shoot multiple distances. I am not arguing that you are not aiming when you only shoot one distance, just that you do not have an aiming system, even if you are gapping or stringwalking. I understand that this is a semantic argument, but I think there is value to looking at it this way. I have seen many folks who focus on one or two distances at the range. That is all they shoot. They go to the indoor range and shoot 20 yards. Shoot 20 yards at the same range enough, and you should be able to learn to do it with your eyes closed.


"Instinctive" shooting which I am very fond of for reasonably short distance is not instinctive at all. It's very similar to learning to walk or for that matter how to do any repetitive task. You simply learn to trust what your conscious mind has gained control of until the last detail of that task is mastered. We just turn the task over to subconscious thing. Check consciously is this correct? I am not sure the eyes closed thing would work, but back in the days of compound bow shooting I became a pretty good shot shooting the thing behind my back. There was nothing instinctive about that either as I had to make continuous elevation and R/L adjustments.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

5 Arrow said:


> That's why I use "Instinctive" loosely as there is really nothing instinctive about it. After shooting many arrows the subconscious mind will produce a picture that your conscious mind trusts and confirms the height adjustment is correct. Paying conscious attention to arrow flight is important to learn how the arrow travels through space and as an aid in weeding out form errors. Aiming using the "Instinctive" method certainly involves conscious thought the conscious portion is focusing on the spot where you wish the arrow to land. The difference between the two aiming methods the Gap method utilized a mechanistic proven reliable system while Instinctive arrives at the aiming step through consciously evaluating where the arrow will land and through repetition can be delegated to conscious thought to execute correctly. For me without the yardstick of distance to the target all bets are off. either method. For me being able to accurately judge yardage is an absolutely necessary input for either method.


Here again then we would have to agree to disagree as here again?.....

If I were to even begin to judge the yardage of a shot?...I've already stepped out of the realm of "instinctive"

There is no numeric distance involved in envisioning the arc/flight path of an intuitively loosed arrow.

At least not for me there isn't.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

JINKSTER said:


> Can anyone who aims in a subconscious state lay claim to....
> 
> "A System"?
> 
> For me?...intuitive aiming is more the avoidance of a conscious system than it is the creation and adherence too one.


If you can shoot various distances then I would call it an aiming system. The fact that the system is instinctive, or intuitive, does not exclude it from being a system. If someone can hit the target at any distance then he has a system and I don't really care if it is instinctive, stringwalking, gap, or any other.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

My son has a system were his 32" draw length serves him well. He looks at the target and draws his arm/hand along his face to match the corresponding distances of the shot. 
Dan


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

I do shoot instinctivly. Intuitively or what ever. I think of it as more with the force. I have fairly short arms for a 6 ft guy. So I anchor out on the side of my head, below and behind my ear, which gives me a draw of about 28 inches. With my eyesight, I cannot see the string or arrow at all. 

And I have the exact same problem. I have to kind of walk the arrows in when I change distances. Not a 5 yard change, but 10 yards always gives me problems. To go from 30 yes to 20, always finds me shooting high. Move to 10, much higher. After 4 or 5 arrows I am getting close again. Maybe it is my really poor depth perception, or my poor range estimation. But the first arrow usually sucks.

I practice mostly at 25 yards. At either 20 or 30 I am a couple of inches hi or low. With 3D I have to try to guess the distance to have any confidence. Most targets are under 25. For closer targets I have resorted to bending at my waist. Forward to 15, more to ten, a lot at 5. On my measured range this is working for me. When I guess the distance things can go bad. 

Not great, but my brain seems to be untrainable on what to do. At longer distances, I use Kentucky windage. I just shoot for a point over where I want the arrow to go. Like gapping at the target.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Christopher1022 said:


> ...One of the guys invited me to take a shot and then laughed hilariously, of course when I not only missed the balloon but my arrow went sailing over the target completely...


If single string archery has taught me anything?...it's taught me that even when things are boiled down too their purist most simplistic form?...

I'm still capable of screwing up big time...especially when shooting in front of strangers where my meager skills are being put too the test...which is why I ask the following...

Is there any chance you were shooting 3-Under and then while caught up in the moment inadvertently grabbed the string split-finger?

Cause to put an arrow clean over the target at 1/2 the distance?....that's what it sounds like too me and?...

Please...don't ask me how I know. LOL!


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Unless you have an extremely high anchor the sight picture will be practically identical for 10 and 20 yds even with a very slow bow.
In short: it was you not the aiming technique you use.

Grant


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Grant, mine is not nearly the same. 20 yards is close to half point-on which is the maximum gap. 10 yards is heading back to zero gap. This is the mystery that I hear from some of the 3D shooters where they talk about setting up bows that are very tolerant of distance estimation errors.


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## Bowsage (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm like you Jink's !


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> Grant, mine is not nearly the same. 20 yards is close to half point-on which is the maximum gap. 10 yards is heading back to zero gap. This is the mystery that I hear from some of the 3D shooters where they talk about setting up bows that are very tolerant of distance estimation errors.


Yes but we never actually get to a near point-on and the relationship isn't linear. With a 30-35yd POD I'm pretty much identical gaps from 10-20 and even 25 with fast arrows.
Then again I can hold a little low and shoot 10 with my 20 crawl when stringwalking. 20 with my 25 is also fairly readonable.
Crawling short on the other hand is ugly. Hence why a figure-8 aiming method (which I stink at since holding high is more comfortable) is much more forgiving of distance estimating errors.

Grant


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## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

The way I teach it is to learn the distance one at a time, starting at about 10 yards. When you get good at that, step back to about 15. Spend a lot of time at 20. Then learn 7 yards, at a low target. Then 25. Place the shorter targets lower as most natural targets or game animals will be low. 30 yards is tough for most men so never mind that for a while.

At this point you are ready for stump shooting. Judo points reduce loss of arrows in the weeds.

Another great practice that I do about twice a week is the walk back. Start at around 7 yards. If you miss repeat until you hit. If you hit stroll back about 8 short steps while you nock another arrow. The benefit is best if you do not know the distances and do not estimate them. Just aim at target center and make a strong shot. Take about a dozen arrows and empty your quiver this way, then repeat. Gradually you will learn to shoot all the shorter distances well, instinctively.

When you are ready to shoot further, out near point-on distance and beyond, then it is time to start learning gap aiming. - lbg


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

JINKSTER said:


> If I were to even begin to judge the yardage of a shot?...I've already stepped out of the realm of "instinctive"
> 
> There is no numeric distance involved in envisioning the arc/flight path of an intuitively loosed arrow.
> 
> At least not for me there isn't.


I thought I was the only one who shot this way. It is one of the surest ways for me to blow a shot if I try to put a numerical yardage on the range to target. I know the trajectory of the arrow. I don't visualize it and I don't "see" it or try to. But I know at a glance that the over hanging blanch will snag my arrow in flight, or the brush between me and the mark is low enough for the arrow to clear.

I just have to "find my happy place" on the shot, and competently execute. Still looking for the perfectly clean, boringly repeatable release, but I'm getting better all the time. As I understand it, it can be like chasing unicorns anyhow.


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## Christopher1022 (Mar 2, 2015)

"Is there any chance you were shooting 3-Under and then while caught up in the moment inadvertently grabbed the string split-finger?"

Sadly, no. I always shoot split-finger. Viper1 makes the salient point that the elevation difference can't account for the margins of error either so I guess I am just prone to a wonky shot once in a while. 

Good comments here in all. I need to get to a 3d range once in a while and may try gap for distance shooting.


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## berzerk64 (Nov 27, 2013)

Don't feel bad. I can reliably hit the berm. Try gapping, you won't know if it works for you if you don't. If it doesn't, well, then it doesn't. You'll become a lot more conscious of your form and release for a while if you do. Don't get frustrated if it seems to put you all over the place. Give it time, focus on the shot sequence and form, and don't be afraid to try/change things. Move your nocking point, etc., as needed. I changed my set up, moved my nock up 3/8" to point on at 40, and my groups have improved considerably. It also works out that 3 under point on at 40 puts me point on at just short of 70 split, so I lucked out and can also work longer shots that way. Experiment. Don't be locked into any particular method except what puts you on target accurately and reliably.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Just as an aside?...

Long ago I gave up proclaiming myself to be a gapped or instinctive aimer and for a few good reasons....

1. I seem to do best on the close shots aiming instinctively cause the gaps are so big.

2. I seem to do best on shooting longer distances when I start out the aim process by gapping but conclude the aiming intuitively.

3. Why limit myself too one method of aiming when I have the ability to incorporate, exploit and benefit from two?

Right tool for the right job comes to mind here.

But more over?...the aiming process is such a small segment of my shot?...90% of my focus gets spent on more important things like form and execution with an emphasis on a clean release.


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

JINKSTER said:


> Here again then we would have to agree to disagree as here again?.....
> 
> If I were to even begin to judge the yardage of a shot?...I've already stepped out of the realm of "instinctive"
> 
> ...


Appreciate the feedback, and yes we will have to agree to disagree.


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## acedoc (May 7, 2016)

5 Arrow said:


> Interesting in that I did a lot of shooting a slingshot years ago and yes there is definitely a parity with instinctive archery. I gave up shooting a sling shot completely once I had a paper route and could afford arrows.
> I found that the sling shot was not good for my archery shot (dropping my bow arm). Good bye sling shot which at the time I was very deadly with.


i wonder why would you drop your bow or slingshot arm ? i shoot ttf sideways while using a slingshot and my slingshot arm will not move. ditto with the bow !


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Christopher1022 said:


> I always shoot split-finger.


Unless your entire focusing shooting long distance with slow bows then you will be far better served with 3 under.

Grant


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## 5 Arrow (Nov 20, 2015)

acedoc said:


> i wonder why would you drop your bow or slingshot arm ? i shoot ttf sideways while using a slingshot and my slingshot arm will not move. ditto with the bow !


That was many years ago but the sling shot was one called the wrist rocket. You actually put your hand through a metal bracket that would bear on the upper forearm when you pulled the pouch back. Naturally you had to apply an equal and opposite force to remain steady. After observing several times that my bow arm was not steady right after a session with the wrist rocket my pre-teen logic found the sling shot guilty as charged and sentenced it to a exiled existence. I have not shot one since.


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## keb (Jul 17, 2007)

The one shot and stumping does not mask mistakes, shooting 150" whitetail and paper target are 2 diff deals, I don't care what anyone says.

Old saying you fight how u train. Never seen a paper target on any animal I shot.


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## rolyat008 (Aug 6, 2010)

I like to stand near the target and throw my arrows up in the air at random. Wherever they land is where I shoot. Some will be around 10 yards and others will closer to 30. This gives you the one shot mentality as well as trains your brain to judge distances better.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

keb said:


> The one shot and stumping does not mask mistakes, shooting 150" whitetail and paper target are 2 diff deals, I don't care what anyone says.
> 
> Old saying you fight how u train. Never seen a paper target on any animal I shot.


Completely understand and agree with what you're saying but I personally like taking the following path of...

*"Train For Any Fight"*

Cause we rarely get to "Pick Our Fights" and there's a flip side to every mentality...especially in the hunting woods...on one hand the shot presented could be close up and personal where the shot would require "blink of an eye" execution in one of those "It was over before you knew what happened" deals or?...it could be that bullwinkle sized Buck of a lifetime standing broadside (or quartering away) with it's head beautifully hidden behind a tree offering up plenty of time for a perfect shot......at 32yds...in which case?...I'd like to know what my gap and point-on distance was to slowly assume form and execute the shot too perfection to insure a clean harvest.

Simply put?....the more tools that are in the box?.. 



rolyat008 said:


> I like to stand near the target and throw my arrows up in the air at random. Wherever they land is where I shoot. Some will be around 10 yards and others will closer to 30. This gives you the one shot mentality as well as trains your brain to judge distances better.


And ^^THAT^^ Sir is exactly how one of the best archers I know practices...and he often times "Places" if not "Wins" the TBOF 3D State Championship in Recurve Class.

But his form is rock solid and his execution wreaks of perfection...yet he aims intuitively.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Okay, Jinxy, you have to explain to me what the difference is between instinctive and intuitive. Actually, I am not sure how I would use my intuition to shoot an arrow. Here is a definition of intuitive.

using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.

Oops, instinctive is in the definition of intuitive. I am so confused. I think I will stay with my stringwalk, facewalk, pick-a-point, and hope aiming hybrid.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> Okay, Jinxy, you have to explain to me what the difference is between instinctive and intuitive.


For those who take offense at the first I attempt to include the other...a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down! LOL!


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

:moviecorn
WOW......We're on page two, of an instinctive thread, and things are still pretty civil.:tea:
I wonder how Ken and Ray are doing nowadays ?:fencing:


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## keb (Jul 17, 2007)

viper do you bow hunt?


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## keb (Jul 17, 2007)

Not trying to stir the pot but curious on ur theory about stumping and the 1st shot not being productive, when it's proven by some of the worlds most skilled stickbow hunters on the planet.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Keb, I think this is the comment you are referring to:

The stump shooting or one shot and move on thing only works AFTER you have the basics is shooting and range estimation down. A lot of "bowhunters" are into that, not because it works, but because it masks mistakes.

You have to look at the second sentence in context of the first. What I read is that you get the fundamentals down first. You don't skip directly to step 2.


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## HonkAddict (Oct 18, 2011)

I shoot instinctively. What I try and do when I train is to shoot at various distances. I may shoot at 20 then 10 and 30 yards for a quiver full. Or even better I'll shoot one arrow at about 10 then walk back a few steps and keep walking back five 10 yards at a time until the quiver is empty. I'm no Howard Hill it it seems to help. Last night I shot 30 and I stuck the ground on one of the first arrows after shooting 20 yards. LOL! So I'll admit I sinned and gap shot an arrow then once my mental targeting computer was calibrated I went back to instinctive. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## stringstack (Jun 10, 2016)

If you are having trouble within 20-25 yards you should back up and practice at 40-45 yards and then practice at 20-25 yards. 

You will subconsciously see the arrow rise into the target after shooting the longer distances and 20 yards will feel much easier to shoot after shooting at 40-45 yards. 

I still have trouble within 20-25 yards but notice that when I shoot 40 and even 50 yards and then go back to 20 yards that 20 yards feels like a joke and my sight picture really starts to pop out and everything comes together.

Reason being is that to even hit the center of the target at 40 yards and beyond with no sights takes a lot of skill, a steady bow hand, and the ability to see the trajectory.

As for instinctive archery, it's a nice romanticized term that gets thrown around a lot but it's really subconscious GAPing. So in that respect it can still be called instinctive but it's still a method in which one subconsciously learns the angle the arrow points, bow hand points, and what their sight picture looks at, at various distances until it becomes second nature like pointing at something far away. 

It's the same way Hill shot (split vision subconscious GAPing). 

Byron said it best when it eventually gets to the point where it just feels like you are pointing at something with your finger. 

I've noticed that the less I think while shooting the better that I shoot. In that end, it's a form of meditation. In that regards, in my opinion it is the funnest most rewarding and the most traditional way to shoot a bow. One can become deadly accurate with this method without even consciously knowing the distance or even thinking for that matter. 

They even developed a martial art around subconscious shooting known as Kyudo and it's practiced in the Zen traditions.


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

Thank you for that last post. I explained some things I was doing that I thought were unique to me.


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

stringstack said:


> As for instinctive archery, it's a nice romanticized term that gets thrown around a lot but it's really subconscious GAPing. So in that respect it can still be called instinctive but it's still a method in which one subconsciously learns the angle the arrow points, bow hand points, and what their sight picture looks at, at various distances until it becomes second nature like pointing at something far away.
> 
> It's the same way Hill shot (split vision subconscious GAPing).


:thumbs_up What he said.

The term "Gapstinctive" has been used to describe a less conscious form of split vision.


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## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

Well, I take exception to calling it subconscious gapping. There are other visual and cognitive things going on than perceiving the gap between the arrow tip and the line of sight, whether consciously or subconsciously. The most important one IMHO is seeing the vertical angle the arrow is pointing at. The offside eye is off far enough to see the side of the arrow while the strong side eye sees mostly the top. Seeing the side is like seeing how high your finger is pointing; your mind can and does use that perception. Your mind can also perceive the trajectory of an arrow on a longer shot and after enough repetitions can visualize the needed trajectory as part of the aiming process. Even at short range you can be aware of the arrow rising from below line of sight toward the target. 

The conscious can convert what it sees to a vertical gap, at the target, or at the bow, and apply numbers to it, inches, feet or centimeters. But the eye does not see that vertical measure. It sees images and angles, measured in degrees and radians, or simply seen without measures and numbers and working with no calculations. There is a lot more to aiming than gaps. The conscious mind can only do one at a time and often favors gaps and numeric calculations. The subconscious may use several at once with no calculations and may get a better result, and a quicker one. - lbg


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