# Hung up on the bottom.....help!!!



## Hoosier Hunting (Mar 23, 2009)

I need some help, I'm sure a few of you have experienced this problem.

I can't seem to get my aiming dot off the bottom of the bull, I drop down from the top but end up in the bottom of the scoring area, under the x ring, and then I fight to get it back up. 

I shoot a 3 finger stan, and I'm shooting through back tension, I'm not punching.

Help me get back to the center and hold through the shot.....please!!!

Thanks,
Shawn


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## vegashunter55 (Dec 7, 2009)

You could just adjust your sight setting to hit center even when holding low. I learned the six o'clock hold shooting rifles for years. I still am not comfortable blocking out the target that I intend to hit.


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

Try and adjust your peep. Also check out a website called performance archery.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

VA Vince said:


> Try and adjust your peep. Also check out a website called performance archery.


I have a similar problem. Could you elaborate on your comment regarding adjusting the peep? Thanks.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

You may, because of the short ATA bows we are forced into shooting these days be tilting your chin down so you can get your nose to the string.

I was having the same problem and knew I needed to adjust things. However, I had to take a multiple step plan to get things ironed out. First and foremost was the CORRECT DRAWLENGTH...NOT "close", but near perfect. Got that, and gave it a month or two to become "habit". Then came fine tuning the anchor point with adjusting the d-loop length slightly LONGER in very small increments to get my elbow around closer to in line. Gave that about 5 weeks until it became more natural.
Then, and it is still a WIP (work in progress), I started GRADUALLY moving the peep-site UP, a millimeter at a time, shoot a week until I adjusted to that, and then moved it up another mm; shoot a week to adjust, then move it up some more. WHY in increments, you ask? Simple....take it all at once, and you may miss the "sweet spot", and any MAJOR adjustment shouldn't be done all in one whack anyways.
Too many people get into a rush job on things and will change something in a huge move (especially DL...many change it 1" or 1/2" all at once and wonder why they get "messed up") all at once; which, IMHO is not the way things should be done.

Anyways, The "dropping out the bottom" is now minimized...notice I didn't say ELIMINATED...and I only drop low when I hold too long. That is because holding too long remaps the BAD HABIT and I'll start to drop my chin, the elbow goes up, and the bow goes DOWN...just the fact of the alignment or rather misalignment that is occurring when you hold too long!

I'm still adjusting to the last silly mm change in peep height, and last time I shot, I had a couple of "ringers" that got away from me...but now, I'm going out the BOTTOM of the peep when I move my chin when I hold too long, and I'm coming into anchor centered up, instead of at the top of the peep and having to tilt my head/chin forward to find the middle.

ONE SMALL adjustment at a time, don't go for it all in one big whack. FOR ME, it had nothing at all to do with bow balance, counter-weighting or anything; once I got the DL right and the forward/back positioning of the ANCHOR right...it came down to getting that peep height narrowed down. I'll know the "range" of peep height that my form and bow-setup allows for within the next couple of weeks. I think I'm on the high end of that range right now, but the proof will be in several more practice sessions, paying special attention to how well I HOLD and MAINTAIN the center of the peep while executing the shot.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Hoosier Hunting (Mar 23, 2009)

Wow....great advice and detail. Thanks to all for the suggestions, please keep 'em coming!


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## GILL (Jan 10, 2008)

I know Hoosier Hunter, he's got good form and his DL and peep are good. I'd recommend some weight on a back / side bar. I keep adding weight to the back of my bow and it just keeps feeling better. I've got 21 ounces now. 

I've got an extra bar we can play with. I'll call you tomorrow when I'm done chasing turkey and voting!


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## kavo 71 (May 9, 2009)

You could try changing your rear stabilizer to a downward angle with the weight even with the bottom cam, making the bow "back heavy".


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

All this alignment stuff to correct freezing below center is a bunch of BS. You're not freezing down there because of some natural tendency to hold there like the bow just wants to be there. If that was in fact, a fact, you could just lower your target on the bale and stay in the spot. We all know that isn't the case. If you move your target down, that will just cause you to freeze even lower. 

This is purely and simply a manifestation of target panic, and there is no easy way out. Your bow can fit you in any way, shape, or form, but it's your head that is keeping the dot out of the spot. 

Field14, I've read your stuff since the archerynetwork.com days, and you have a lot to offer, but in my opinion, you're way wrong here. If you fixed a freezing problem yourself using peep height adjustments, well, I think that the weeks and weeks of serious practice and form work did a lot more work to fix the problem than the miniscule peep adjustments did in the long run. 

This is from a past freezer from way back, so I know where you guys are at, but you won't fix the problem until you define the problem and actually admit to yourself what is going on. It's a mental thing, and it's tough to solve without a lot of work. Good luck.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Ohio_3Der said:


> This is purely and simply a manifestation of target panic, and there is no easy way out. Your bow can fit you in any way, shape, or form, but it's your head that is keeping the dot out of the spot.


I agree. I had the same problem. I started shooting a much larger spot until I broke the bad habit.

Keith


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## Travis Shaw (Feb 28, 2011)

Agree it is a form of target panic, not sure if you are using a bt release but this would help you. I had the same problem about a year ago and switched to a tru ball sweet spot and now I can hold right on the bulls. Get away from the trigger and start blank bailing.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

It could be any number of things. Just because someone is having trouble putting the pin on the dot doesn't instantly mean they have target panic. According to this website, half the people they shoot either have it or are afraid to admit they do. 

Your draw could be off just a bit. It doesn't take much. I had the same issue a couple of weeks ago. My pin would lock up 6 o'clock in the dot. I could wad up arrows but they were always 6 o'clock. Went out and shot a round instead of just shooting in my backyard on flat ground. About halfway through I decided my DL was a tick short for my liking. Put the bow on the press and took a half twist OUT of my string. That's all it took. 

You might be holding your release a little differently. Or holding the bow slightly different. I am not gonna guess what the actual problem is but I'd bet it's a very small change in something. 

AT likes to make Target Panic the scape goat for any and all issues shot related. It's not always the culprit but it makes folks feel better if it's something that is "out of their hands" so to speak. Target Panic isn't a disease. You can't get it from toilet seats or sneezing on someone. It's the manifestation of several bad habits all working together. Begin to eliminate the bad habits, and Target Panic won't bother you.


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

If you could wad up arrows right under your dot, where is the equipment issue? You're hitting exactly where you are pointing. 

The bow doesn't know where it's pointing, fellas. It points where you and your mind puts it. 

A half twist doesn't change anything other than changing something pyschologically...


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## Hoosier Hunting (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks for all the responses guys. I tend to agree with the more recent posts......it's a head thing, I've started working on 5yd shots at small dots really focusing on aiming and shot execution, and it seems to be helping. I'll get there!

Thanks again to all!

Shawn


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

why are you focusing on the pin/aiming device?


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## Hoosier Hunting (Mar 23, 2009)

What do you mean??


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## NockOn (Feb 24, 2003)

Easy to identify what the problem. Use any handheld release with a trigger and keep your finger or thumb of the post. If you can keep steady in the gold/X your have execution issues(Between the ears) not equipment...Aiming drills are in order.


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

Ohio_3Der said:


> If you could wad up arrows right under your dot, where is the equipment issue? You're hitting exactly where you are pointing.
> 
> The bow doesn't know where it's pointing, fellas. It points where you and your mind puts it.
> 
> A half twist doesn't change anything other than changing something pyschologically...


If you think changing your draw length to make the bow fit you correctly and give you the best fit and make it so you can control your aim is only changing something pyscholgically. I would suggest you stop posting on this subject.

Next your gonna try and tell someone that playing with your stab weight and angle of your side rod can't help with aiming better either.


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

Kade said:


> If you think changing your draw length to make the bow fit you correctly and give you the best fit and make it so you can control your aim is only changing something pyscholgically. I would suggest you stop posting on this subject.
> 
> Next your gonna try and tell someone that playing with your stab weight and angle of your side rod can't help with aiming better either.



Yep, changing your drawlength by half of one twist does pretty much didley on making the bow longer/shorter. And, if you put a few grains of sand on the end of your stabs, that will basically do exactly the same thing, which is nadda. Good grief. I'm soooo done with this thread.


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

Ohio_3Der said:


> Yep, changing your drawlength by half of one twist does pretty much didley on making the bow longer/shorter. And, if you put a few grains of sand on the end of your stabs, that will basically do exactly the same thing, which is nadda. Good grief. I'm soooo done with this thread.


If you think that a half twist does nothing then its good that your done with the thread because you have no clue what you are talking about. 

Let me get you Jesse, Dave, Braden or several other top pros phone #s so they can tell you the same thing.

I guess adding clicks to your sight doesn't change your impact point either. Next your gonna tell us that raising or lowering your peep a smidge won't change your impact point either. Hey everyone did you know that adding or removing an ounce on your stabs does nothing and neither does changing your side rod angle.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Kade said:


> If you think that a half twist does nothing then its good that your done with the thread because you have no clue what you are talking about.
> 
> Let me get you Jesse, Dave, Braden or several other top pros phone #s so they can tell you the same thing.
> 
> I guess adding clicks to your sight doesn't change your impact point either. Next your gonna tell us that raising or lowering your peep a smidge won't change your impact point either. Hey everyone did you know that adding or removing an ounce on your stabs does nothing and neither does changing your side rod angle.



Crap!!!!!!!

You mean I spend all that time looking for the sweet spot for nothing?? If I had only known that all I had to do was show up and I could shoot in the 50's, I'd have done it a long time ago. 

Well at least I can set up my bows faster now since I don't have to worry about all those crazy things like twists in the cables/strings, stab weights, and sighting in.


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## Elliott T (Dec 28, 2009)

I pivot from the hip and slow down each shot. Also I focus on the spot more and now the dot wont's to follow. If my mind tells me let down I let down.


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## Hana Pa'a (Nov 18, 2005)

You might want to give tiller tuning a try. I too stuck on the bottom of the spot, I tried DL adjustments, back weight, releases and others. One day someone mentioned to me that I might want to adjust the tiller in the limbs to bring the sight to the center. 
Good Luck


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

Well I would sight in the way you normaly shoot because it seems like you like to see the 5 ring so use the snow man effect


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