# Pin. Dot. Ring. etc... Not asking you to pick one for me!



## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

What does each one do to your hold? I've noticed that with a pin I can hold really steady on a dot or a 3D target aiming point, but when I go to shoot a 5 spot face I can't hold my ping steady worth a crap. Now I'm not asking which one you shoot per say, but i'd like to discuss what each one does to you sight picture(float). I found that I can hold a ring much steadier on a 5 spot face and I think it's because seeing the x is kind of hard in all that yellow or white background so getting a pin to sit there is harder as it seems i'm always trying to find the x. 

Discuss. Or move. Whichever lol.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

Your float is probably the same your perceived movement is less with a ring depending on the size. Same as a 8x scope compared to a 2x scope.


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## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Definitely not. You know how there's always those guys that say "my pin sits like a rock"? Well, with the pin it will almost do that when aiming at a spot, but when aiming at an x it's far from it.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Even on 3Ds I've found I hold a bigger dot steadier than a small pin.


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

I find the pin vs dot vs size to have to do with setup. A lot has to do with what target face I'm shooting. Along with the lens power being used.

For 5 spot I have a personal preference for a Dot that is big enough to fit completely inside the white leaving a pretty small white ring around the dot. Its a sight picture I'm very comfortable and confident in. It seems with to much white showing I feel like I'm swimming in my float and on target. 

For a vegas face I shoot a smaller dot with a good bit of yellow around it. Visually the visible float in the yellow doesn't bother me like seeing it in white. 

I tried rings several times and it creates a very uneasy feeling for me. While its nice to see the "X". I feel very lost with my aiming, my float feels big even if its not. I have a hard time not trying to find reference point for aiming instead of just focusing on the "X".My groups open up.

The distance I'm shooting helps me determine my pin or dot size. Or the distances help me find a compromise for a size that works best over a variety of yardages.

Pin vs dot is merely trying to figure out what you like to look at for a sight picture and what tweaks need to made to get there. Where your shooting and what kind of lighting plays a large role as well

I don't believe I hold better or worse with a pin, dot, or center drilled as long I can achieve a sight picture I like and have confidence in.


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## sublauxation (Nov 21, 2013)

Here's my take on a 5 spot with a 4x scope. The first dot I used covered just the X and my float made me feel unsteady. I put on the next size up and it perfectly covered the white. I couldn't move the sight out any further to make it smaller. I didn't notice the float at all which increased my confidence but my brain wanted to see some white so I found myself holding it just a touch low left. Next I'm trying a ring that will hopefully just surround the white with a small dot in the middle. It should be the best of all worlds. If not I'll just use a ring and take the dot out of the middle. Many argue the float doesn't change from the small dot to the ring, and that may be true, but my perception of it changing from just a mental standpoint is important.


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

A small dot tends to make my float crap as I "think" my subconscious is always trying to obtain the center and I freak out at the perceived movement.

For 5 spot or indoors Vegas faces I size my dot's so they have 1/2 the width of the X ring (10 ring for Vegas) showing on each side. The bigger dot always provides a calmer float for me, and I know if I keep that dot bouncing (floating) around in the white (yellow for Vegas) that when the release explosion occurs my shot will be in the X ring or Vegas 10 ring.

Outdoors, for F&H I size a dot as big as I can such that it just barely won't cover that smallest target vs the longest distance in the game: the 32 yard fan, the 53 yard Hunter target, and the 80 yard field face bullseye. Again, bigger is better for me as far as float goes.

I do like a ring, or True Spot for indoor 5 spot too. Again, I like to just see about 1/2 the width of the X ring around the white center. Calmer, and If I keep the white in view it's an X. I'm probably not shooting the True Spot as it's intended, though.

I experiment a lot with dot size and color. I make them myself using the method that Tom Dorigatti outlines in his book, Proactive Archery. Taking various size drill bits, you square off the end on a grinder and use that like a punch to punch out dots from different stuff on a block of soft wood. I've used semi truck reflective bumper tape, reflective tape sold to put on fishing lures, the orange and black sections of those little peel and stick stickers used for gun targets, and my all time favorite - I stopped by a sign making company and they gave me a sheet of florescent orange vinal with sticky back.

I'll sometimes take my dot-making kit to the range with me to experiment and oftentimes end up working on everyone elses dot size 

Another advanced topic is how to change a dot such that you never have to change your sight settings.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

CarlV said:


> ...Another advanced topic is how to change a dot such that you never have to change your sight settings.


?? or when it rains and we need completely to remove the lens....
I have found these larger size fiber pins, http://shrewdarchery.com/product.php?productid=16178&cat=248&page=1

I use a 0.060" (for Field) and 0.120" (for beyond 50 meter FITA also tried and works well for all Field as well) pins but tinkering ordering soon a 0.16 and the largest 0.19 as well....last year tournament season every second time was raining bad a finished the season my bow fasteners were full rusted...


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Dots drive me nuts as I can't handle the fact that I'm covering up what I want to hit. I'll peek to make sure the X hasn't run away from me, which wrecks my float. A ring is a lot more calming to me, especially indoors. I run a ring that has an inner diameter just big enough to fit the yellow/white.

I just bough some of the new precision archery rings that are thicker rings to see how that looks.


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

Indoors I have shot it all. Ring or center grind was the most calming but I tended to loose focus of center when I got a few holes in the target. Couple holes left of center and my group would migrate. Dot covers that up so not a problem. I shoot a dot just bigger than the 10 ring. Focus more on the ring of yellow then dot. Wasn't as relaxing at first but has grown on me. Pins are just too small for me indoors. Outdoors they work great on 3d. Guess it's the perceived movement is less without x in target. IMO have to try them all for awhile or you are selling yourself short


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I like a smaller pin (.019 and up depending on set up) or dot for shooting 5-spot because I can then shoot right at the X without the dot hiding what I'm trying to hit. Sometimes I'll shoot the 5-spot by holding the dot or pin directly underneath and staring at the X very much like aiming an open sighted rifle. 

I like a bigger dot for shooting the Vegas face. I aim by holding the big black dot in the gold because obviously I can 't see the X on the Vegas face.

The ring is very beneficial for folks that find themselves looking at the pin or dot rather than what and where they want to hit. It's "easier" to aim by staring at a point with the ring floating around it. The spot that you are staring at never disappears behind a pin or dot therefor you can stay mentally relaxed rather than bouncing your pin up and down and becoming stressed. 

Lens power or no lens comes into play as well. The guys shooting real big dots usually have higher mag lens.

I don't normally feel there is much difference in whether I use a pin or dot. Though colored fiber is not my friend when shooting at the Vegas face!

How you aim and what you use to aim is all about keeping you stress free so you can get in a "groove" so the arrow finds the mark with little or no real effort to make the shot.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

I switched up from a pin to a ring just before the NFAA Indoor this year (I know, you're not supposed to change before a tournament). It made a huge difference in perceived movement and lets me hold the target picture better. The pin seemed to always hold low. I did find out last weekend that the ring, while good for indoor and outdoor targets, is not so good for 3D as the 11 rings are so small. Too much variance in trying to align the rings.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

there is such a thing, as your aiming process needing to be at ease with it's task, or relaxed while focusing intently. the elements of your equipment being set up to promote that makes all the difference in the world. the only way you can find what works best for you, is to try combinations until you find the best situation that lets you remain relaxed while aiming.
you'll feel the right combination when you find it. many people don't realize something like this exists and never try other combinations.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Presently, I'm using a large scope with a 4X lens and .019" fiber optic pin.

All pictured have been used successful for the task at hand. First two, the circles were used to center to the peep, which aided the pin more consistently. The smallest housing has a 6X lens and no pin opening, just the circle. The orange thick circle floated around the bull's eye at 20 yards. The black dots covered up the bull's eye at 20 yards.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

small black dot on either a 3x or 6x lens; small enough it covers inner 10 but fits inside big 10 with room around the edge and the big 10 line. 18m and 50m have the same dot fit in relationship to fitting inside big 10 so overall sight picture is the same. after the first couple ends when holes are established the dot fades into the hole and shots become very easy. i shoot pins well but i cant stand them; when they fade into the hole i don't like what i'm looking at(scores don't reflect it tho. 

personally i feel that the best reference for aiming you can find is one that will work for every game you encounter; you can shoot inner face, blue face, field etc and not see degradation in sight picture or hold. i don't advise changing between faces; not saying different setups don't put up "better" scores that the current setups you are running for different faces, but i prefer to just shoot; every game is approached the same- dot goes in the middle, shoot good shots, they'll tell you if you won later....


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

I use a ring for everything....no lens, just an FITA ring

Why?
Because it's the easiest aiming situation for our brain.

We want to "see" what we are shooting. If you use a dot/pin you have to unlearn the tendency to want to peek...the ring allows you to let the brain do what it naturally wants.

incidentally, a 6 o'clock hold can work in much the same way.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Fury90flier said:


> incidentally, a 6 o'clock hold can work in much the same way.


Yes it can. I stacked my pin and bull's eye (figure 8 if you will) when shooting Field. One State Championship, 2nd in State Championship, 3 1st in Spring Openers (14 Field). Couldn't center my pin in the bull's eye to save my life, but sure could get the job done using a 6:00 hold on the bull's eye.
3D is different. There ain't no circle to stay in


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Fury90flier said:


> incidentally, a 6 o'clock hold can work in much the same way.


True, but you need to be very careful that the 6 o'clock hold does not begin to sink lower and lower on the target face, if you know what I mean. Probably not the best approach to use.


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## VAN DAM (Feb 16, 2010)

I tried shooting indoor with a pin and it seems hard to hold. I found holding 6 o'clock in the middle of the blue on a 5 spot seems to be a lot easier to hold my pin still


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

JUST started using a ring yesterday. At first it was a bit weird, seemed like more movement. 
But as the novelty wore off and I was able to focus on the X more than the ring, it started getting better.
One thing with the ring for me was I started to lose eye dominance. Had to do a little squinting to keep everything in perspective.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Mahly, that is the opposite of me. With a pin I need to squint as my eyes get tired but not so with the ring (bright orange). It may be that I still have 3 layers of ring and haven't pared it down to just one yet.


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## acesbettor (Mar 19, 2009)

I liked the ring at first but if I started making a hole on the edge of the x i had the tendancy to be drawn to it. I'm sticking with the dot that covers up a little more than the x ring on a 5 spot for now.


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