# FCA Townhall Discussion



## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

The intent of this thread is to address questions related to the FCA, how things are done, who does those things, etc. I will do my best to answer what I can. I ask anyone who wishes to take part to attempt to be respectful. I have a pretty thick skin, but if you choose to make this thread your opportunity to be rude, ignorant, or a waste of my time, you will be on my ignore list and I wont waste any of my time on you. There were some questions raised in the previous thread, I will try to get to them as I have time.
1-"Someones getting a kick back/on the take"...I must have missed the executive vacation in the Bahamas...but I will be sure to let everyone know how it goes next year...;-)
FCA's books are audited each year, by an outside auditor. This is a huge cost to the FCA, but is a requirement from Sport Canada. The FCA has opened tenders for companies to submit their bid to audit the FCA, and the most competitive bid is chosen. This year our Auditing costs will exceed $10,000. 
2-What does the FCA do for its athletes:
For our teams this year, the FCA is able to access Sport Canada funds to assist all team members with team staff. These are volunteers who are there to assist the teams at the events. The full cost of this staff is not paid, and all are paying out of their own pocket to do this for the archers. Additionally, all team members get their entry fees paid(this alone is a bill in excess of $12,000) Additional support totalling about $1000/recurve team member is also avialible for recurve team members through Sport Canada funding. We also provide logistical support in coordinating travel arrangmenets, hotel, communicatiin with the Organsising committee, etc. If anyone think this is a small job, you are mistaken. If any of you thinks it unnneccsary, again, you are wrong. The coordination of these teams is a huge task, and for anyone to think that we can do without they do not understand how sport is structured at a world level and the neccessities of working within that structure. Some years more had been done, in past years the compound archersd recieved abotu $1000 as well, but with 62+ team members this year,m it was not in the budget.
I would also want to note, that no gun is beign held to anyones head. If you wish to take part, the rules of the game are known in advance. If you feel its worth your while, then take part. If it isnt, then dont. Its that simple. 
I am working on a comprehensive HP Gameplan for the coming years that will have some great opportunities for archers and coaches, both compound and recurve. Of course the money tree isnt what some would wish for, but i will do my best to ensure the best HP Programs I can within the budget we have.
I have to step out for a bit, but will be back online later this evening to continue answering some of the previous questions, and any new ones that arrise.
EdWilson
FCA VP High Performance


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*Excellent*

THIS IS GREAT first it will educate us a lot as we all cannot make agm meetings ... personally a copy of the financial should be on line for us to review at any time and question... as I said before I was in politics and our financial are available for the public as a lot of campaigning sported the phrase we should be more accountable to the public... I know that financial s will need a pass word to get into them to view and this is not that hard to set up when you pay your membership... I can view my portfolio daily with up to date changes from my financial group with a pass word.. Also this will also help us in the day to day operation of the fca... thanks for setting this thread up in advance and YES LETS ALL BE SENSIBLE , WELL VERSED AND CONSIDERATE TO EACH OTHER ... THANKS AGAIN


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2009)

it might be easier Ed if everyone had a base idea of core costs per team this year and criteria needed to be on each team..


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Are coaches manditory to participate in the HP program?


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## Xslayer (Feb 10, 2003)

Just thinking out loud here, but shouldn't the bulk of available funds go to those who represent our country on the line?

I understand support staff is important but in my way of thinking it is a bit backwards to be supplementing the costs for support staff and not the folks shooting the arrows.

Ed, I totally realize how restricted budgets are, but as you know yourself sponsors are vital,, someone mentioned getting a uniform sponsor,, that would be a good start.

With all the expenses involved in just getting to the National team trials, travel, hotel, food, entrance fees it just does not exactly inspire people to get involved, a tough thing for sure, I would hate to be supporting my family and trying to get to all the events you need at that level,, my hats off to those who can and do.

Just whats passin through my brain.


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## NextCanChamp (Sep 8, 2008)

As the owner of TOXOFIL Inc., the company that has been selected by the FCA for the manufacturing of the team uniforms, I would like to say few words on the subject of uniforms.
TOXOFIL was selected by the High performance Comity from 3 companies that submitted proposals. To my understanding, the comity was looking to upgrade the look of the Canadian athletes, but also to improve their comfort. I personally agreed that the uniform had to be of a better quality (after having exchanged my cotton polos and t-shirts of my 2008 uniform with people from Ecuador and Chile that had better shirts than mine).
TOXOFIL had certainly a good proposition, with Coolmax polyester shirts specifically designed for archers and its capacity to create any customized design for the shirts and the jackets. To create the graphic design, TOXOFIL uses a printing process called sublimation. With this process, you don’t lose the property of the shirts and jackets (breathable, stretchable) and you get a very high printing quality that will never fade. The FCA asked TOXOFIL to reproduce a graphic design that was proposed by another company, and we did.
With this quality of fabric and the use of sublimation for printing, you usually pay around 80$ per shirt. In comparison, Louis Garneau makes customized cycling shirts for 120$ and jackets for over 150$. TOXOFIL sells the shirts to the FCA for 48$ (t-shirt) and 60$ (polo), which are very good prices. At these prices, TOXOFIL also had to take care of the printing of the names on the shirts before sending the packages to the team members, and had to carry an inventory of sizes (Men XS-XXL, Women XS-XXL) that can’t be sold to any other client.
When archers take the 6-item package (1 jacket, 2 polos, 2 t-shirts and 1 pants), TOXOFIL makes a 20% discount on the package, which brings it to 300$. At this price, TOXOFIL doesn’t make any profit. Manufacturing clothing in Canada costs a lot more than in Asia, but we made the choice to give employment to Canadian people instead of Chinese. Actually, with the shipping costs that are well above 15$ for BC and Alberta, TOXOFIL loses money for every uniform sold, but this is something that we will work on.
Added to that, TOXOFIL will send back a 5% return on 2009 sales to the FCA, to help the federation fund the teams for next year. We know that paying 300$ for the uniforms isn’t cheap, so we wanted to do our part, hoping that Canadian archers would someday recognize this contribution.
Added to that, TOXOFIL has given a sponsorship of 1000$ to the 2009 Canadian Outdoor Championship in order to have the opportunity to present its collection to the archers, and will do the same as long as the agreement with the FCA will continue.
TOXOFIL is doing its best to support the FCA and the team members, but as a small company, we can’t presently do more. If another sponsor would want to put its name on the shirts or the jackets, this could be done easily. We feel this could be the best way to reduce the price for the archers.

I wish this helps.

Francis Letourneau
TOXOFIL Inc.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*wow*

wow 48 dollar t-shirts at cost... my Denver Hayes from Marks Work Wear cost 8 dollars per shirt and are 2 yrs old and worn at least once a week... also I see that the owner is a shooter is he still on the team or in anyway connected... if so a conflict of interest arises... also I see it was a choice , not a tender put out.. again not a good business decision.. I have owned and run large businesses sorry can`t agree on this one, more answers needed please respond to above questions ...Again I mention get a sponsor for the clothing.. I`m sure we can have someones name on it some where....and still fit into the guide lines and if not then its time the international governing body to wake up. ...Every body else does it take a picture for example of the bicycle guys used as an example in the previous response...


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## NockOn (Feb 24, 2003)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> wow 48 dollar t-shirts at cost... my Denver Hayes from Marks Work Wear cost 8 dollars per shirt and are 2 yrs old and worn at least once a week...


These are not the same cotton T-shirts you get at Marks.  The same shirts sale for a lot more then he sells them to the FCA. This guy doesn't make any money selling the uniform to FCA, he loses money. I have seen them and would pay more then then $50 for one. I remember the old uniforms and would have almost been ashamed wearing it at an international tourney. This one is awesome looking and everyone look sharp in it.

The fact that he's an archer doesn't mean anything. He wasn't on the committee that selected his company over 2 others. I'm sure the fact that the Canadian team wears his goods will help him make sales. That's not a conflict of interest, just smart way to promote his business. 

And before anyone start more conspiracy theories, I'm not a paid employee of Toxofil, just another archer who saw the product for myself and believe that the FCA is getting a great deal. I've also had the pleasure to meet Francis face to face and he's nothing but a great guy trying to make a go selling wear in a very tough market to break in. He was probably also to humble to mention that he also puts shirts on the back of at least 1/2 dozen archers on his pro staff.

Just my 2 cents worth...


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*attn nock on*

sorry but this is not a conspiracy.. this thread was created to get some intelligent answers out... If you don`t think some one that is any way associated with the due process of choice then I`m afraid you are miss informed ... I only mention this as people here are looking for real answers ... The questions I presented really where put for to the executive to answer .. and yes you are entiled to a response but please don`t quote me and then accuse me of starting a linch mob...I`m sure we could look good for the 3-4 days they are worn for alot less and again for the THIRD time why do we not have this sponsored....


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2009)

Just get it sponsored eh? easy words to say and next to impossible to get, been there done that, the uniform thing is small potatoes considering what the archer is expected to pay out just to get there.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*sponsors*

sean just look at every 3-d shirt out there any fishing shirt any baseball team local or triple a bicycling the list goes on and on... some of the admin fees should be used for people to save money not spend it... sorry but sponsors are out there ...Make ya a deal what ever I can save on uniforms over last years cost you pay me 50% of that and that still makes a savings for the team and the fca right... And I assure you it will be of quality and of a nice design... and any over stock will be available to the fca members to purchase...


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> wow 48 dollar t-shirts at cost... my Denver Hayes from Marks Work Wear cost 8 dollars per shirt and are 2 yrs old and worn at least once a week... also I see that the owner is a shooter is he still on the team or in anyway connected... if so a conflict of interest arises... also I see it was a choice , not a tender put out.. again not a good business decision.. I have owned and run large businesses sorry can`t agree on this one, more answers needed please respond to above questions ...Again I mention get a sponsor for the clothing.. I`m sure we can have someones name on it some where....and still fit into the guide lines and if not then its time the international governing body to wake up. ...Every body else does it take a picture for example of the bicycle guys used as an example in the previous response...





CLASSICHUNTER said:


> sorry but this is not a conspiracy.. this thread was created to get some intelligent answers out... If you don`t think some one that is any way associated with the due process of choice then I`m afraid you are miss informed ... I only mention this as people here are looking for real answers ... The questions I presented really where put for to the executive to answer .. and yes you are entiled to a response but please don`t quote me and then accuse me of starting a linch mob...I`m sure we could look good for the 3-4 days they are worn for alot less and again for the THIRD time why do we not have this sponsored....





CLASSICHUNTER said:


> sean just look at every 3-d shirt out there any fishing shirt any baseball team local or triple a bicycling the list goes on and on... some of the admin fees should be used for people to save money not spend it... sorry but sponsors are out there ...Make ya a deal what ever I can save on uniforms over last years cost you pay me 50% of that and that still makes a savings for the team and the fca right... And I assure you it will be of quality and of a nice design... and any over stock will be available to the fca members to purchase...




1: There is not one member of our team that wants cheap cotton tees. A survey was compiled and from it, the HPC chose the specifications for the uniform as requested by the team members.
2: A bid process was opened and advertised, and 3 bids were recieved. From those bids, Toxofil's was deamed to suit the needs/requirements of the team members best. At that point, the HPC chose to moce ahead with Toxofil on updating the team uniform, and from most accounts the new uniform has been positively recieved. 
3: Francis has no relationship with any member of the HPC when the decision to contract Toxofil was made, and no relationship excists today aside from the sponsorship and support Toxofil included in their contract with the FCA. The funds they contribute go specifically as a $1000 grant to the host of the outdoor target nationals, and the remainder will be budgeted towards athlete funding in 2009.

Any further implication of impropriety amongst the FCA executive or its volunteers will not be tolerated. The people who form the Executive are experienced, intelligent, knowledgable people who are all more than qualified to hold the positions they do.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

Xslayer said:


> Just thinking out loud here, but shouldn't the bulk of available funds go to those who represent our country on the line?
> 
> I understand support staff is important but in my way of thinking it is a bit backwards to be supplementing the costs for support staff and not the folks shooting the arrows.
> 
> ...


Regarding the number/costs of team staff, we are fortunate that a great deal of the expenses for our staff this year were covered by grants from outside archery and from PSOs. Of course we recognize that we need to find a balance between expense and need. We have obligations to support teams, not only financially, but also physically. When you have a team with members shooting a varying schedule,in a foreign country, with a bilingual team, its is important to have the staff there to meet the needs of the team. Fortunetly we have volunteers who do this at very little actual cost to the FCA. What we do have to pay for, comes out of Sport Canada money that is allocated specifically for this and must be spent where we are obligated.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> sorry but this is not a conspiracy.. this thread was created to get some intelligent answers out... If you don`t think some one that is any way associated with the due process of choice then I`m afraid you are miss informed ... I only mention this as people here are looking for real answers ... The questions I presented really where put for to the executive to answer .. and yes you are entiled to a response but please don`t quote me and then accuse me of starting a linch mob...I`m sure we could look good for the 3-4 days they are worn for alot less and again for the THIRD time why do we not have this sponsored....


Firstly, these clothes are worn more than "3-4 days" Some team members will wear these uniforms 40+ competitive days/year, and in a variety of conditions. You continue to bring up "sponsorship", like it has never been considered. You site cycling, etc etc, without understanding the nature fo how those sponsorships work, and their lack of availibility for members of a sport with limited participants, limited exposure, and in reality, a limited amount of return on investment for the potential sponsor. In order to recieve sponsorship on a level that would be meaningful, we need to build a brand, and provide enough exposure that our sponsors would recieve a reasonable return on investment. This is not something that is being ignored, and the Executive is working on this for future teams.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

Bow bandit said:


> Are coaches manditory to participate in the HP program?


Not at all, many team members are "self coached" At present our ranking process is open to any member in good standing who wishes to participate. Team selection criteria is distributed through infoemail(you can sign up on the FCA website) and is also posted on our website.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

Sean McKenty said:


> it might be easier Ed if everyone had a base idea of core costs per team this year and criteria needed to be on each team..


Below is a rough draft of my HP budget submission to the Executive. While some small changes have been made, and it doesnt reflect some support we recieved that will in effect cause a surplus, it will give everyone a general idea on how/where money is allocated. I am posting this in order to hopefully answer some questions, not to debate how everyone thinks the money should be spent. The vast majority of it was committed by the HPC prior to my taking on this role. As well, the money allocated towards recurve archers/team staff is being spent in accordance to our obligations under our agreements with our funding partners.

2009 HPC Event Budget Request Summary
(Explanation of budget allocations listed below)
FITA Senior Worlds-$23,000
AWAD World Championships-$20,000
AWAD Grand Prix-Stoke Mandeville-$2100
El Salvador WRE-$3000
World Cup-Turkey-$5,000
Universiade Archery-$2000
Youth World Championship-$10,000
FITA 3-D World Championships-$1000
Total: $66,100

This budget reflects the need for Sport Canada Money to be spent on Recurve development/competition exclusively, while at the same time doing what the association can afford for compound archers out of general revenue. It is expected that other budget recommendations to be proposed by Bob, along with this budget, will dramatically improve the cash flow situation for the FCA, and allow funding for future HPC initiatives.
FITA Outdoor Worlds
We have 6 Recurve, 6 compound, and 3 support staff going. This budget is to be allocated as follows:
Registration fees for all archers/teams to be paid in full by FCA ($3,400). Recurve team members accommodation expenses are estimated at $1000/archer(dual accommodation) (6 archersx$1100=$6,600) 3 Team support [email protected]$1500 (individual rooms) =($5000)
In addition, all Team staff, and Recurve team members will receive a reimbursement of $1000 to assist in travel expenses. ($8000)
Total Allocated funds: $23,000(this number is dependant on the exchange rate on the date of payment. I calculated based on the dollar being at .83. It has been stronger lately, may cause a surplus)


AWAD World Championships
Total budget of $20,000: 5 Team members and 3 support staff. FCA to pay for the registration fees of all team members, the remainder to be granted equally to all team members/staff to offset tournament costs. (As the FCA has paid the entry fees and accommodation already, this number is to be deducted from the amount dispersed to team members/staff.
5 athletes are eligible for selection. Therefore, the number of athletes that I will submit in the preliminary information forms at this time will total five (5). The athletes are: Kevin Evans, Rob Cox, Bob Hudson and Norbert Murphy, Lynne Trembley. Rob, Norbert, Lynne and Bob will require wheelchair accessible accommodation. The number of Team staff totals four (4). The staff is: Vladimir and Viera Kopecky, Roger Murray and Patty Tole (Rob Cox’s attendant). FCA is not able to cover any of Patty Tole’s expenses. Both have ordered a uniform (a non-Team uniform for Patty).
AWAD Grand Prix-Stoke Mandeville-
$2100-3 archers attending-$700 each (Kevin Evans, Lynne Trembley and Bob Hudson)
El Salvador WRE
The budget allocation for this event is $3000. We have a team of 2 Recurve archers, and one support staff going. Entry fees amount to $1000.

World Cup-Turkey
The allocated Recurve portion of the budget is $5000. We have a team of 5 archers going, along with a team leader. 

Universiade Archery
By prior arrangement, it was agreed that the FCA would cover the cost of the team leader’s travel. The total budget for this team is ~$2000

Youth World Championship
Original total budget allocation to team-$10,000 We have 7 Recurve team members, along with 3 support staff. It has been promised that team staff will receive accommodation and airfare (total-$3900) Entry fees for all team members to be paid. The remainder to be split equally amongst Recurve team members. 

3-D World Championships
$1000-Cost of entry fees for team.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*great*

well thank you for the executive responses.. now the membership knows where the funds are going.. and again I thank you... answers justifying this thread...Sorry guys if I ruffled some feathers but I was in charge of sponsorship for some fishing tournaments on a local bases.. I was able to obtain with some dedicated work 30k in prizes in 1987 which today would be double that... we gave away boats , outboard motors and atvs... etc etc etc and this on a local venue... I know most of the fca exec is voluntary I think , and again the membership thanks you..I sorry but I don`t know if there is a criteria for advertising persay on team apparel then the whole system comes to a sudden stop for sure...if none allowed


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## cdhunter (Feb 4, 2006)

as easy as sponsorship sounds, we have to remember, unfortunately that in canada archery is a fringe sport. I currently work for a company that has a community first approach which is very unique. They currently are exploring the impact that their sponsor ship would have on both the local and international levels as most of our business is global in nature. This is not a one shot deal such as a fishing derby where companys alot a certain amount of write offs a year and most of these give aways directly support their dealers. Getting prizes are alot easier than securing funding.


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## Big F (Aug 20, 2004)

*Townhall*

Perhaps another topic...

Is there anyway to make target nationals shorter. I was there again this year...getting through this shoot is a long process. Alot of people can't get time off work to get to it. Is there anyway we can make it into a 3 day shoot and hold it over a weekend?

Its obvious the format will have to change to make this happen... Maybe a FITA 1440, 70m round and Double Elimination OR in 3 days?

Andrew


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## NockOn (Feb 24, 2003)

I'm probably the exception but I like the one week format. If I'm going to pay for flights to go somewhere I might as well get my moneys worth. I also enjoy 7 days of archery once a year, that's why I also shoot the Field event as well.

Cheers,


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## Pete731 (Aug 9, 2002)

Big F said:


> Perhaps another topic...
> 
> Is there anyway to make target nationals shorter. I was there again this year...getting through this shoot is a long process. Alot of people can't get time off work to get to it. Is there anyway we can make it into a 3 day shoot and hold it over a weekend?
> 
> ...


I do agree ... and with a shorter national format (4-5 days max), may be it would be easier to fit between other major events like US National et World Cup.

Thanks Ed for the answer ... I hope some guys here will understand what is going on!


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## white rastamon (May 4, 2009)

*Town hall discussion*

Good points by all parties involved.
Debate is good ,as well as being forthright with explainations.
My only concern regarding topics like this , in my opinion should be discussed more appropriately on perhaps the FCA site and not in here where everyone has acess.
Would this information be better served being "somewhat confidentiel" to a certain degree? WE have the whole world looking in and seems as were all not getin along....


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## Canuck (Jan 30, 2003)

Big F said:


> Perhaps another topic...
> 
> Is there anyway to make target nationals shorter. I was there again this year...getting through this shoot is a long process. Alot of people can't get time off work to get to it. Is there anyway we can make it into a 3 day shoot and hold it over a weekend?
> 
> ...


X 3

I've been to only one Nationals for that exact reason and don't plan on attending another given the length.....I would personally use the same amount of time to attend 2-3 events in the US instead


I'd would also like to thank Ed for the role he is filing in the FCA and hope he plans on continuing in the future......Thanks Ed


Kevin Brayford


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2009)

I have to agree as well, sperate out the field event and let the Fita and field run on its own. Both events could be run over weekends limiting time off work and still provide enough shooting to choose a National winner. As well sperating the events could open them up to clubs currently not able to host both together.


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## DeathClutch (Aug 23, 2009)

white rastamon said:


> Good points by all parties involved.
> Debate is good ,as well as being forthright with explainations.
> My only concern regarding topics like this , in my opinion should be discussed more appropriately on perhaps the FCA site and not in here where everyone has acess.
> Would this information be better served being "somewhat confidentiel" to a certain degree? WE have the whole world looking in and seems as were all not getin along....


I agree with Mr Rastamon! i don't think FCA needs to justify on AT!

my2c


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*not really*

being public you seem to get more honest answers , and everybody's input...also fca web site is being redone if memory serves me


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2009)

DeathClutch said:


> I agree with Mr Rastamon! i don't think FCA needs to justify on AT!
> 
> my2c


The FCA site has been pretty much irrelavent for quite some time now and since there are far more active users here it would make sence to post it here in the Canadian section


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*attn mr rastamon*

could you please fill out your profile as we all here like to know whom we are conversing with and from where thanks


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## NockOn (Feb 24, 2003)

Dividing up the Field and the Target would just about kill the Field event IMO. Most only shoot the Field because they are already going to the Target event. Most would not travel for the Field only on its own.

Cheers,


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

white rastamon said:


> Good points by all parties involved.
> Debate is good ,as well as being forthright with explainations.
> My only concern regarding topics like this , in my opinion should be discussed more appropriately on perhaps the FCA site and not in here where everyone has acess.
> Would this information be better served being "somewhat confidentiel" to a certain degree? WE have the whole world looking in and seems as were all not getin along....


Too often, discussions of this nature are hidden behind closed doors, and this can lead to misunderstandings and confusion. While some may wish that these discussions would not occur, I believe strongly that by inviting discussion and being as open as reasonably possible, we can hopefully inform the members of why/how decisions are arrived at. By explaining and informing, perhaps people will be more willing to trust those who contribute to the management of the FCA when they make the decisions that guide archery in Canada. You dont build consensus, trust or understanding behind closed doors.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Xs24-7 said:


> Too often, discussions of this nature are hidden behind closed doors, and this can lead to misunderstandings and confusion. While some may wish that these discussions would not occur, I believe strongly that by inviting discussion and being as open as reasonably possible, we can hopefully inform the members of why/how decisions are arrived at. By explaining and informing, perhaps people will be more willing to trust those who contribute to the management of the FCA when they make the decisions that guide archery in Canada. You dont build consensus, trust or understanding behind closed doors.


You got it! nothing to hide then nothing to worry about. Good work! AT is about the fastest way to spread the archery word right now, good or bad it just plain works!

I am impressed that you have taken the time for this and have not hid behind the " I am just a volounteer " banner. you will get a lot more trust and support if you confront issues head on rather then run away.

Your willingness to listen to all points is comendable.


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

The format of the Nationals has always been controversial, and I am absolutley positive there is no right answer. On one hand some want as many arrows/days as possible. On the other, times change, holidays are limited, and in 2009 holding a national Championship over 9 days is a massive challenge. I believe strongly that our format must change, and I could talk for hours about the need to remove the field event form our National Target championships. At present, it is a huge burden, in real dollars, in volunteer hours, and club resources. The real cost to hold the National field event at a club that does not already have a field course means the entry fees would need to exceed $100/archer(right now they are $40) just to break even. When you add that the the massive amount of labour to build the course, asking judges, volunteers, etc to give up 3 additional days(not including course preparation), it is obvious that the field event at our national Championships is a huge white elephant. 
I understand and value the traditions we have, and there is something great about spending a week with friends/competitors. Some say "Nationals is my holiday, so I dont care if I need to take some holidays for it"...I would ask those people to also remember that while they are enjoying their holidays, others are giving theirs up to run the event. While I dont have any regrets, I am 31 years old and have yet to be able to take a single week holidays in my entire working life outside of archery, as they are used up each year by attending our National Championships. I believe that for every archer that we would loose by changing the format(and I think with a reasonable compromise that number will be very very low), we would gain 2 by having a format that was shorter. At our nationals this year, many of our elite missed the event, due to conflict with the World Cup, and an already hectic schedule. For our Nationals to mean anything, our best have to be there. 
All that being said, its not as easy as say "FITA Saturday, 720 Sunday, FCA Open Monday" In order to run a full FITA for all competitorrs on one day, clubs need a massive amount of resources. This year we were at 40+ butts for 160 competitors. If more people show up, obviously that number increases. The present format allows for a split field and reduces this demand. Its not as easy as saying "Have a seperate field Nationals", as field is virtually dead across Canada, and the results of having it seperate would results in an annual event that would amount to a Provincial shoot with 30 people at best attending. I think the title of "National Championship" deserves better than that. This brings to question, if the archers of Canada dont support field at their clubs, if they dont support it enough to travel and support a seperate event, then is this something the FCA needs to dedicate time, resources, etc to? If the money, hours, and resources were put to another use that better fit within what the FCA membership demands, would they be better served.
Obviously it isnt an easy answer, but it is being looked at. Trevor Furlotte has joined the FCA executive replacing me as VP Events and services. I am sure he would love to hear whatever ideas/feedback you have. At present we have commitments with clubs for next years Championships, and I doubt that anything will be done in time for the 2011 Championships as well, so the earliest possible year for a change would be 2012.


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## Big F (Aug 20, 2004)

It does take alot of resources the run a fita 1440 for this many archers. Those of us that have shot target nationals know how long it can take to shoot two distances. That being said it would be difficult to run a full fita 1440 in a day at this event, unless we started scoring at 8-9am and we shot through until 6pm. It seems that it is more attractive to shoot the 1440 over two days. 

We should however remember we had two starting times in winnipeg a couple years ago. This means 4 distances were shot in a single day......But if everyone was to shoot 4 distances in the day twice the number of butts will be needed 

However we do know that a 720 round and the Canadian open can be run in single days (720 can run with two lines if needed). So what if nationals was a 4 day event instead? If we base this around a weekend to run fri, sat, sun, mon, it's still more 'do-able' than monday -friday. And if it is held on a long weekend, this should make it even easier. Theres still enough afternoons and nights for a couple fca meetings (probobly 3 if one is done the night before the shoot). Plus the Fred Usher can still be shot, and the banquet is still had the night before the open. 

Just trying to throw some ideas around, thats what townhall is about....... 

Andrew


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## NockOn (Feb 24, 2003)

Even though I'm a big fan of Field archery(my favorite format), I have to agree with you Ed that its not very popular and it does create an awefull lot of work if not profit is made from it.

But I think people in general are looking at it the wrong way. We seem to have a defeatist attittude. Why look at how to get rid of it instead of looking at how to boost up the numbers? I know that in the states, there seems to be a come back to Field archery. I'm not much familiar with what is going on south of the border except that there are new field courses popping up instead of disapearing.

I guess its hard to make an event popular when most PSO don't support the event to start with. How many Provinces have a Provincial Field Championship? It also goes down to the fact that clubs have gone mostly 3D and Field courses have gone to the way side. Realistically though once a course is setup for Field, it makes for a great practice range for the 3D guys now that most clubs don't leave animals out when there is no tourneys. Once a course is setup, the maintenance cost is pretty low as well.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer but I wish we could come up with a way to promote field instead of putting it down.

Just my 2 cents

Claude


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## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

As Andrew Noted, perhaps this may work:
Thursday: Offical Practise
Friday: FITA 720
Saturday: First Half 1440 & Fred Usher Cup
Sunday: Second Half 1440/Banquet
Monday: FCA Open
Tuesday:Field event begining follwoing official practise in the am(optional)
Wednesday:Field

This may work well for those who have schedules that are flexible, as it will only require 3 days off at most(less if placed on a long weekend) It solves some problems, but may cause others(an example is at present volunteers can set up the FITA event on the weekend, while this would require mid week setup and teardown which means potentially more time off for club members/organisers)
Of course, there is no perfect answer, but it isnt an issue that is being ignored. Thanks for all the constructive discussion.
Ed


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

NockOn said:


> Even though I'm a big fan of Field archery(my favorite format), I have to agree with you Ed that its not very popular and it does create an awefull lot of work if not profit is made from it.
> 
> But I think people in general are looking at it the wrong way. We seem to have a defeatist attittude. Why look at how to get rid of it instead of looking at how to boost up the numbers? I know that in the states, there seems to be a come back to Field archery. I'm not much familiar with what is going on south of the border except that there are new field courses popping up instead of disapearing.
> 
> ...


Well said!

:thumb:


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2009)

I personally have felt that the reason Field doesn't do so well is because it is viewed as an add on the Target champs, if it was to run on its own it would allow more clubs to host each event.

The target could run

Sat- official practice
Sun- 1/2 fita men women AM/PM
Mon-1/2 fita women men AM/PM
Tues- Double 70 
Wed- FCA open Awards

A total of 3 days vac. time

Field could run a month either way of the Target champs on a long weekend

Fri- official practice
Sat- 24 field
Sun 24 field early start and awards

If the Fields become a local event then fine but it would also allow more archers to participate that altherwise wouldn't if tied to another event extending vac time needed, I think field needs this more than anything else


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## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

Xs24-7 said:


> Too often, discussions of this nature are hidden behind closed doors, and this can lead to misunderstandings and confusion. While some may wish that these discussions would not occur, I believe strongly that by inviting discussion and being as open as reasonably possible, we can hopefully inform the members of why/how decisions are arrived at. By explaining and informing, perhaps people will be more willing to trust those who contribute to the management of the FCA when they make the decisions that guide archery in Canada. You dont build consensus, trust or understanding behind closed doors.


:thumb:


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## white rastamon (May 4, 2009)

*round table discussion*

Classichunter..my apologies as i have not had the opportunity to complete my personal id and other information.I will get to is shorlty.
In case you were wondering as to my positiojn on all this,i do feel that these comments are valued by all parties.
My only recommendation or comment was to qualify as to whether or not these issues shoud be discussed or available to those thagt arent of concern.
I do agree that this site is of value and several.no..many visit here for data-technicla information etc etc..
But the divulgin our our financial situaiton and exposing the funds that are avalable or not available to our athletes and coaches is a cause of concern.
Is it really anybody elses business outside of our country ??
That was the point i was trying to get across..??

Secondly-I would like thank Ed Wilson for chairing this commitee.
Ed keep up thegreat work, your efforts are much appreciated.

Proud dad and personal sponsor of Canadain National Team Archer.
(yeah we bought our own suits and plane tickets for those questioning my position)
Antalya Turkey 2008
Odgen Utah 2009

Feel free to call if any concerns
Randy 
514 679 4790


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