# Still chasing deer in Prince George and Surry



## BigBirdVA

Call VDGIF and add another number to the dog complaint list. I heard some barking in Surry last Sunday but I had to leave and didn't have time to call and stick around to meet the warden. I will this weekend. When I left I saw one on 460 looking to eat some chrome. All they need to really change in the laws to protect the fox hunters is you must be physically there a part of the chase. Since most are let out to run and the owners are no where in sight that simple addition would allow the real fox hunters to carry on and stop the dog chasers illegally running cold. No owner, off to the pound it goes. All hunting hounds need to be licensed as to what species they chase and that would solve a lot of problems. Fox hounds don't magically switch to deer Nov 17th. Would end a lot of this BS "fox chasing" loophole they all use to lie their way out when caught.


That tracking collar was it the one the guy said he "fixed" with a 3 pound hammer! :lol3:


Talked to a farmer about a lease and he said "NO DOGS". His family and other farmers don't want any on their land. In fact one farmer leases a piece just to keep them out of there. Got a good shot at the whole place when I said "NO DOGS" from our bunch.


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## Hokieman

Landowner illegally setting traps causes injury. On December 28, Conservation Police Officer Isaac Boulanger received a call from Richmond Dispatch in reference to an illegally set trap in Caroline County. Officer Boulanger made contact with the complainant, who advised that he had stepped in a trap that did not have any information attached to it. The following day, Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Paul Atkins searched the area where the complainant had stepped in the trap. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins found the trap that the complainant had stepped in and immediately realized that the trap was actually a 330 body gripping trap that by regulation was required to be completely submerged in water. Several more 330 body gripping traps were located on the property. Two additional 330's were located set on dry land several yards from a small creek and one 330 was set at the edge of a swampy area above water. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins also found a beaver carcass next to one of the traps as well as a beaver skull at another location. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins then decided to set up surveillance on one of the trap sites in an attempt to catch the "trapper" if and when he came to check his traps. The surveillance at the trap site continued for more than a month and it quickly became apparent that the suspect was not checking the traps on a daily basis. Officer Boulanger decided to interview the landowner who was the main suspect in the case. Officer Boulanger obtained a confession from the landowner who claimed that he did not know the traps could not be set on land and that he had to remove the animals he caught. Officer Boulanger obtained 8 magistrate summonses for the landowner for failing to check his traps daily (4 traps), and for setting a trap where it would be likely to injure persons, dogs, stock, or fowl (4 traps). For more information contact Lt. John Cobb (540) 899-4169.


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## deepzak

Moon, I have to agree with BB. Please make sure you report it to VDGIF. The high numbers are the only way we will get any attention to get the laws changed.

BB, if you are talking about the bow only club, please PM me if you might be interested in another member.

Hokie, notice that they didn't cite him for failure to lable the traps, because they were on HIS land. Unlike dogs, who also do not have to be labled (apparently) but who are not always on the owners land. 

I get the distinct impression that the state may see an increase in the number of trappers this year. It really doesn't cost that much to get some traps and the return on your investment seems to pay off big dividends.  Fur seems to be selling quite well these days. :wink: It's also a good way to get a cross sectional number of the coyotes in the area.


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## Moon

*Now here is yet another bunch of crap*

From one of our favorite bowhunters:
Landowner illegally setting traps causes injury. *(hey, keep your azzes and unwanted dogs off others' property) *On December 28, Conservation Police Officer Isaac Boulanger received a call from Richmond Dispatch in reference to an illegally set trap in Caroline County. Officer Boulanger made contact with the complainant, who advised that he had stepped in a trap that did not have any information attached to it.*(Again...he should keep his azz off others' property)* The following day, Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Paul Atkins searched the area where the complainant had stepped in the trap. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins found the trap that the complainant had stepped in and immediately realized that the trap was actually a 330 body gripping trap that by regulation was required to be completely submerged in water. Several more 330 body gripping traps were located on the property. Two additional 330's were located set on dry land several yards from a small creek and one 330 was set at the edge of a swampy area above water. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins also found a beaver carcass next to one of the traps as well as a beaver skull at another location. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins then decided to set up surveillance on one of the trap sites in an attempt to catch the "trapper" if and when he came to check his traps. The surveillance at the trap site continued for more than a month and it quickly became apparent that the suspect was not checking the traps on a daily basis. Officer Boulanger decided to interview the landowner who was the main suspect in the case. Officer Boulanger obtained a confession from the landowner who claimed that he did not know the traps could not be set on land and that he had to remove the animals he caught. Officer Boulanger obtained 8 magistrate summonses for the landowner for failing to check his traps daily (4 traps), and for setting a trap where it would be likely to injure persons, dogs, stock, or fowl (4 traps). For more information contact Lt. John Cobb (540) 899-4169. *(Yes, and this is happening all over SE Virginia, huh??????) like the creeps that break deer chasing laws by the hundreds You are a real piece of work dog man*ukey:


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## BigBirdVA

Dog Dies in Animal Trap
Thu January 10, 2008 - Campbell Co., VA

A Campbell County man is hoping to save others his heartbreak. His dog Sam died Wednesday after it was caught in an animal trap. It was a traumatic experience for him.


Mike Viar struggled to hold back tears when he took us to the site. But experts tell us what happened to his dog is not a common occurrence.

Mike Viar, Pet Owner - "He was twisting his head and shaking and he was in horrible pain and I was trying to pull it off."

ABC 13 myTAKE - What's Your Opinion?Mike Viar used all his strength to save Sam's life, but he just couldn't do it.

Viar - "It came off, but by then he quit."

Mike's other dog also got caught, but she was lucky.

Viar - "She just did this and shook it off but it caught him different."

Somehow Sam's head got caught in a trap meant for a much smaller animal.

Benny David, Campbell County Animal Control - "This is the first time I have ever heard of it."

Officials say Sam should have been on a leash.

"David - "Dog should not have been running loose and it is trapping season. That is something people should be aware of."

Trapping is legal in Virginia and traps are usually away from busy areas. Experts say typically they're not a big threat.

David - "If you are going to let your dogs run in your neighbor's farm, you might want to ask them, make sure they don't have anyone trapping."

Viar - "I have seen people with their kids walking down here."

Mike says the traps should not have been there. Investigators say it's Mike who should not have been there with his dogs. But what's done is done. Now, Mike wants everyone to protect themselves and their pets.

Viar - "I am hoping that nobody else will have to go through what I went through yesterday."

Conservation police say they are still investigating the incident. And at this point, they say it looks like the man who set the traps did everything by the book.



Just a friendly reminder to Pokiemon and company. It is trapping season. And if you end up with a couple of dogs without collars and don't know what to do with them. Here's a guy who knows.


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## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> Landowner illegally setting traps causes injury. On December 28, Conservation Police Officer Isaac Boulanger received a call from Richmond Dispatch in reference to an illegally set trap in Caroline County. Officer Boulanger made contact with the complainant, who advised that he had stepped in a trap that did not have any information attached to it. The following day, Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Paul Atkins searched the area where the complainant had stepped in the trap. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins found the trap that the complainant had stepped in and immediately realized that the trap was actually a 330 body gripping trap that by regulation was required to be completely submerged in water. Several more 330 body gripping traps were located on the property. Two additional 330's were located set on dry land several yards from a small creek and one 330 was set at the edge of a swampy area above water. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins also found a beaver carcass next to one of the traps as well as a beaver skull at another location. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins then decided to set up surveillance on one of the trap sites in an attempt to catch the "trapper" if and when he came to check his traps. The surveillance at the trap site continued for more than a month and it quickly became apparent that the suspect was not checking the traps on a daily basis. Officer Boulanger decided to interview the landowner who was the main suspect in the case. Officer Boulanger obtained a confession from the landowner who claimed that he did not know the traps could not be set on land and that he had to remove the animals he caught. Officer Boulanger obtained 8 magistrate summonses for the landowner for failing to check his traps daily (4 traps), and for setting a trap where it would be likely to injure persons, dogs, stock, or fowl (4 traps). For more information contact Lt. John Cobb (540) 899-4169.



Derick, I must say I like your new username of "Simmon" elsewheres, however you musta forgot and left off the "Simple" prefix thou. 


To all of my buds, seez ya later, gotta run ... I feel a "favorable wind" picking up. :smile_red_bike:


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## Hokieman

Mr. Breedin aka yogi I don't know what your talking about.:mg:


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## 3sheets

Hokieman said:


> Mr. Breedin aka yogi I don't know what your talking about.:mg:


It's actually Ira Breedin, pretty cool "internet alias" don't you think ?? I'm am down right amazed at folks that are stupid enough to use their actual real life names, addresses, etc on the internet, know what I mean Derick ?? :nyah:

By the way, I'm a tad curious, how does it feel to be "owned" all of time ?? :loco:


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## BigBirdVA

3sheets said:


> It's actually Ira Breedin, pretty cool "internet alias" don't you think ?? I'm am down right amazed at folks that are stupid enough to use their actual real life names, addresses, etc on the internet, know what I mean Derick ?? :nyah:
> 
> By the way, I'm a tad curious, how does it feel to be "owned" all of time ?? :loco:


I hear some people like it that way.


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## Hokieman

Well Rick you would know more about that than me.:wink:


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## Hokieman

3sheets said:


> It's actually Ira Breedin, pretty cool "internet alias" don't you think ?? I'm am down right amazed at folks that are stupid enough to use their actual real life names, addresses, etc on the internet, know what I mean Derick ?? :nyah:
> 
> By the way, I'm a tad curious, how does it feel to be "owned" all of time ?? :loco:


I wouldn't know Ira is it?


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## 3sheets

[quote author=simmon board=issues thread=1205176497 post=1206569633]Landowner illegally setting traps causes injury. On December 28, Conservation Police Officer Isaac Boulanger received a call from Richmond Dispatch in reference to an illegally set trap in Caroline County. Officer Boulanger made contact with the complainant, who advised that he had stepped in a trap that did not have any information attached to it. The following day, Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Paul Atkins searched the area where the complainant had stepped in the trap. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins found the trap that the complainant had stepped in and immediately realized that the trap was actually a 330 body gripping trap that by regulation was required to be completely submerged in water. Several more 330 body gripping traps were located on the property. Two additional 330's were located set on dry land several yards from a small creek and one 330 was set at the edge of a swampy area above water. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins also found a beaver carcass next to one of the traps as well as a beaver skull at another location. Officer Boulanger and Sgt. Atkins then decided to set up surveillance on one of the trap sites in an attempt to catch the "trapper" if and when he came to check his traps. The surveillance at the trap site continued for more than a month and it quickly became apparent that the suspect was not checking the traps on a daily basis. Officer Boulanger decided to interview the landowner who was the main suspect in the case. Officer Boulanger obtained a confession from the landowner who claimed that he did not know the traps could not be set on land and that he had to remove the animals he caught. Officer Boulanger obtained 8 magistrate summonses for the landowner for failing to check his traps daily (4 traps), and for setting a trap where it would be likely to injure persons, dogs, stock, or fowl (4 traps). For more information contact Lt. John Cobb (540) 899-4169.[/quote]

Hey "Simple Simmon", your clone Hokieman just re-joined back up over at VADeer ... imagine that !! :wink:


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## Hokieman

lol:wink:


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## Kiyot_Trapper

*Nuisance Canine Trapping in Virginia 101*

Nuisance canine (coyote) trapping in Virginia 101

Trap according to Virginia law. Coyotes can be trapped year-round. For nuisance canines, only use foothold traps without teeth and a jaw spread of 6 1/2 inches or less. Only set traps on your own land - not a legal requirement, but less problems. When trapping on your own land, you do not have to mark the trap with your name and address. Post signs that trapping is being conducted on your land - again, not a legal requirement but may head off legal problems. Identify known canine paths and set numerous legal leghold traps around a large animal carcass. The more traps, the better. Check traps daily - an absolute must and illegal otherwise. It is highly suggested that you maintain a daily log of where and when you set and checked your traps in case you need evidence that you did so. Coyotes caught in your traps will need to be dispatched with a .22 shot to the head and then remove the body from the trap. If, God forbid, you catch one or more hunting dogs, DO NOT kill the dog - this is illegal. DO NOT attempt to remove the dog from the trap or get close to read the collar either - you may get bitten no matter how gentle the dog appears to be. When you get home, call your local Animal Control. Inform them of the situation and request their assistance removing the dog(s) from your trap(s). When Animal Control or other law enforcement eventually shows, take them to the location and stand back while they release the dog(s). Politely answer all questions and, if asked, show them your trapping log that I suggested earlier.

If you are concerned that persons may disturb your traps (for example, to prevent the possibility that their hunting dogs will be trapped, which interferes with your legal right to trap coyotes), I suggest setting a few trailcams. If you catch pictures of someone disturbing your legally set traps, you have evidence of an illegal act. If you happen to catch pictures of a person stuck in a legal trap that was legally set on your own land that was clearly posted to show traps were set, you may want to post the pictures on the Internet for sheer amusement.


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## BigBirdVA

Add Surry to the list. Heard a pack running yesterday. Went to get the video and cell to call and it started raining and thundering. The dogs quit and it pretty much rained the rest of the day. Did see on the road near the hounds that were running 2 other dogs. Looked like pets or wild ones. 1 had 3 legs. They weren't the same ones running as I was looking at these while the chase was going. This is the same general area as I had called on them before. Guess by fall they'll be a whole pack of 3 legged ones running around there.


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## BigBirdVA

New magazine out on news stands.


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## Hokieman

I would like to take this opportunity to give my rebuttal on comments that Bob Kane has made on three different occasions. He has claimed that one of the members of the Stake Holder Advisory committee is an alleged dog killer. Using the word alleged is the political way to assassinate a person’s character and yet save face when you are proven wrong. Webster’s dictionary identifies alleged as: “To so declare but, without proof or legal conviction;” “to be called by this term, but perhaps improperly so.” He has stopped short of associating a name with the accusation because he knows his source of information is questionable. It is even more likely that he doesn’t know who he is talking about at all. In fact, his source of information is probably second or third hand, at best. 
I am the SAC member he is referring to. The same exaggerated and false accusations turned up on an Arkansas website (BigGameHunt.nethuntingforums, Jan 22, 2008) “No-Dogs” posted by Newbie. As the discussion carried on, “Newbie” was exposed by “Hokieman.” “Newbie” turned out to be a disgruntled former member of our club and a strong anti-hound supporter. He was quoted as saying “I’ve personally seen a president of a dog club shoot a dog and kill it because it didn’t run deer good enough.” This is a lie. The incident that he is referring to did in fact take place within our club. Neither “Newbie” nor I were present at the time the incident took place. The hound was in fact a poor performer, but that was not the reason it was put down. It had attacked two other hounds without provocation and had made an attempt to bite its owner. The dog’s owner was concerned for the safety of other dogs, hunters, and children and the liabilities that a dog attack could bring. It is unfortunate that the end result led to the hound being put down. But, to ignore all the precursors and take a chance for a child to be attacked is much worse. The carcass was disposed of in the deer bone pit. While this might not have been the best choice of locations, no one had any idea that the “Newbie” would allow his young daughter to play in amongst the rotting carcasses in the pit. This is how she ended up finding the hound. It is said, hind sight is 20/20. If the dog’s owner could retrace the incident, I am sure he would have changed some of his decisions. Perhaps “Newbie” would too.
”Newbie” (Mr. Kane’s source of mis-information) also made a futile attempt to discredit my credibility by rallying others with anti-hound-hunting sentimentsto send in e-mails to the VDGIF and Virginia Tech, protesting my assignment to the Hunting with Hounds in Virginia Stakeholder Advisory Committee. They are in opposition of my appointment because they are fully aware of my strong support for hound-hunting. To have me removed would be a victory for the anti-hound-hunters. Mr. Kane has been misled and has aligned himself with this group to supply him his information. The fact is, they are pushing their anti-hound-hunting agenda by using Mr. Kane as their mouthpiece to discredit the SAC. 
It is a shame and very unprofessional for a person in Mr. Kane’s position to make false accusations against people he doesn’t know or to use second and third hand, uncorroborated information as a basis for his attacks. To tear people down in order to build yourself up is a sign of weakness and insecurity. I can understand why Mr. Kane was not selected to serve on the SAC. It would be difficult to find solutions to the issues with someone on the committee attacking and disrespecting the other committee members. 
Further, The VDGIF did a criminal background check and found no citations or convictions for me. I am sure that Mr. Kane values the American principle of assuming someone to be innocent until proven guilty as much as I do. If I had been cited and convicted of the types of charges “Newbie”, Mr. Kane, and others are describing, that would be a different matter. The VDGIF has an anonymous tip line that people can call to report illegal activities. It is used by hundreds of citizens to report illegal and unethical activities, often leading to convictions. If “Newbie” felt that what he witnessed was so egregious, perhaps he should have taken advantage of this service.

I have absolutely no intention of participating in an argument on this open forum concerning this incident or my appointment to the SAC. I can only say that the task laid out before the SAC is a challenging one. Simply understanding and evaluating the issues at hand will be all the challenge that we want at this time. Having organizations (especially those that claim to be pro-hound-hunting organizations) stand on the outside and try to discredit the process or its members accomplishes nothing and only serves to muddy the waters by causing confusion and misdirection for the hound-hunters of Virginia. 
I encourage all hound hunters to read all the information on the VDGIF website concerning this matter. There you will find the simple truth of the matter: the project aims to preserve the tradition of hound hunting in Virginia in a manner that is fair, sportsmanlike, and consistent with the rights of property owners and other citizens.
Please: 1. Exercise your right to participate in this public input process and send in your comments to the SAC, the VDGIF, or Virginia Tech facilitators. 
2. Fill out the informal survey! This process is totally open for your input. If there are groups that would be interested in meeting with the SAC members and facilitators, please make that request. Learn the truth for yourself. 
Sincerely,
Jim Hackett
SAC Member 

Email: [email protected]


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## BigBirdVA

I'll post a detailed response to this garbage later on today when I get back home. More lies from a now admitted dog killer. The only truth in it is admitting he shot the dog.


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## Hokieman

He didn't say he shot it. He said you and him weren't present at the time it was shot.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> He didn't say he shot it. He said you and him weren't present at the time it was shot.


Anyone can say anything they want, doesn't mean it's true or accurate.

Lie #1.
First there were no rotting carcass in the bone pit. Why? It was spring. To be exact late spring during the latter part of spring gobbler. The last legal deer carcass thrown in there was the end of the first week in Jan when deer season ends. This incident was 4 months later and they were long gone by then. But I guess if you don't remember which dog was shot when and thrown in there when you might get dates and times confused. Not saying there were others I have proof or knowledge of but I don't think this is the first one, nor the last. 

Lie #2
Back to the bone pit. See attached photos of the land and the bone pit area. The big photo shows the club house and you can clearly see the roads going to the left and up towards the top of the photo. The road going to the left with the highlighted area is the general bone pit area. The blow up photo is the actual bone pit circled in red. The dark spot is the bone pit itself. As you can see the access road out of the property which was called "Store Road" as it went into the town general store, runs right beside the bone pit. The bone pit is only 5 feet deep or so, 15 feet across or so and rounded in shape with a slope in the NW side to allow for dumping of deer remains. Anyone can see the road is only a few feet from the bone pit. In fact there are no trees or other obstructions between the road and the bone pit. You could drive right beside the pit and easily see in there from any vehicle or ATV, which is what my daughter was riding when she found the dog. No one was nor did anyone need to "play in amongst the rotting carcasses in the pit". 

Lie #3
There was no one else present that day there. There was 1 red truck with "PREZ" on the license plate. The dog was discovered by my daughter around noon. She was riding the ATV on and around the main road in and out as she had been all morning. All members are required to check in and out and the rule is strictly enforced. No one else was signed in that day. She rides close to the club house and I don't allow here to go off so I can keep and eye on her and know where to look if she's not back. I questioned her and she only saw one vehicle, a red truck. There is only 1 red dog driver truck at the club and it belongs to Jim Hackett. I have a photo of that if anyone needs to see it. 

Lie #4 
After she discovered the dog she came back crying to me and said someone killed one of the dogs. I asked one of our dogs? She said yes. I said how do you know? She responded "It's the puppy and I was playing with it earlier this morning in the dog pens". The dog was alive and there before Jim Hackett arrived. As a note my daughter was 1 at the time. Old enough to know hat was going on. She's very mature for her age too.

Lie #5 
Obviously if a young girl can play and pet the dog it wasn't vicious. It was an adolescent dog and I have a hard time believing it was attacking mature adult dogs and dominating them or causing injury. There are numerous pens and only 1 dog driver kept his dogs there. There are more pens than dogs. She went on to say the dog was play biting her hand and playing in typical puppy fashion as dogs do.

Lie #6
After finding the dog and seeing the hole between the eyes I knew what had happened and immediately called Jim Hackett. I asked "did you shoot a dog and dump it in the bone pit". He answered "YES". Let me repeat that, he answered "YES". He then went on to say "it's a common practice for dog owners to shoot dogs that don't run". "He didn't run" was the comment he made on the dog. There was no mention that Marcus, Zach or Nelson the other club dog drivers were there at the time shot the dog. Just a "YES" I did. I went on to say that wasn't the brightest place to dump it if you're going to do such things as that. I could tell in his voice he was he was a little upset that me, "newbie" was actually telling "Prez" what not to do. Arrogance is a big attribute of Jim Hackett. I went on to say what if the new property owner or one of his agents rode the roads and had seen it? How would that look? He was still upset and as his response above shows tried to shift blame back to my daughter for finding the dog. "Why was she playing in the bone pit"? I said she wasn't playing in it. She was there Sat and Sunday and there were no vultures in the bone pit as it was well past time for any remains to be present there. As she rounded the corner she saw many vultures fly out. She rode by and could see the dog while sitting on the ATV. She never got off the ATV when she found the dog. She said she knew something had to have just been thrown in there for them to be there as there were not any vultures there earlier that day.


Onto part 2.


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## BigBirdVA

*Part 2*

Lets move onto other issues concerning Jim Hackett and his disregard for the game laws in VA. Quoted below are emails from a different club member on the illegal training of dogs on the club property. I guess Jim Hackett will try to say these aren't his words but email headers and IP info can be verified. I have the originals as well as the person who he sent them to. They were sent via his work email addy so it's traceable.

Here's his response to a member when they sent this to him this.

"Good for you. It would be great for bow hunters to be able to see this type of deer, but they are not around due to running dogs during our season." 
(Bow season) 



> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: [email protected]
> To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:49:06 -0500
> Subject: Re: Where have you been?????
> Message-ID: <[email protected]m>
> 
> 
> Shame on you for saying such a thing. The fact is that the problem is not the dogs at all. We only ran dogs at the farm prior to deer season 3 times this year. That is the least we have ever done it in the 10 years we have been there. Back when all the dog owners use to run dogs every Saturday night from September 1st to hunting season, William Edgar killed the #3 - 8 pointer in the state with a bow.
> The truth and total truth is that we have something now that we have never had. That is, about 10 members or more hashing and thrashing through the woods from January to October. This has never been as bad as it is right now. The ATV's are getting out of hand. There is an ATV path that goes right through the cutover from Stand #98 all the way to the center on 3 -bucks. Another ATV path goes from stand 102 all the way to the center on Clubhouse.
> 5 ladder and climbing stands and 1 blind were found in the center of 3 bucks
> . 3 were found in the Clubhouse drive. 4 were found in the Center piece. 4 were found in Sand Pit. 1 ground blind was found in the Ball park. Each stand had a path cut to it and most were marked by surveyor ribbon (which by the way is not allowed by club rules) All of that and not to mention the camera's. The presence of too much human scent is why bow hunters and the black powder hunters are not successful. They are their own worst enemy. I was very upset at the practices that I have been observing by so many of our Buck Masters. I started to intervene early in the fall but, I knew that everyone would view me as being ridiculous so, I let it go to show everyone what they were doing to themselves. I was pleasantly surprised at the outcome. I had thought by the reports that were coming from the field that the scouters / bow and black powder hunters had run the deer off the farm into the swamp. The first day of dog season disproved that. What had happened was that the entire population of bucks had gone totally nocturnal because of the constant harassment. it turned out to be an asset for the dog hunters.
> You would be amazed at what we see while driving dogs. machete paths cut right through the bedding areas, ladders stands placed less then 30 yds from bedding areas. Paths marked with surveyor ribbon with long tails which blow in the wind causing constant movement. (That will drive a smart buck wild as a loon) In order for bow and black powder hunters to be successful, they have to decrease the intrusion into the hardest to get places. The deer must have somewhere where they can relax and not be on pins and needles all day, everyday. I guarantee, if the whole club stayed out of the woods for one year and just hunted the perimeters and main paths, Hunter success would go up substantially.
> To bring this to closure and to prove my above statements. Take a look at the Mill Pond. Bow hunters did much better there, saw a lot of deer and a lot of nice bucks. All because the large numbers of hunters haven't had the chance to stomp all over it yet. But, Rick Hutson and XXXXX have said that they plan to start scouting it hard. I bet the bow hunter success won't last. Just watch and see. The deer will get wild and skittish and go nocturnal.


As you can see from above he clearly states he illegally trains on deer out of season during bow season as he's done for the last 10 years. 

If that wasn't enough he goes on in another email to state that a VDGIF Warden observed and condoned the illegal training out of season on deer. According to Jim Hackett now the state agrees with his views and they too disregard the game laws.



> --------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: [email protected]
> To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:26:05 -0500
> Subject: Re: Where have you been?????
> Message-ID:
> <[email protected]m>
> 
> It seems that we disagree on several items. Some things that you stated are not actually factual. I won't dissect everything you stated that I think is mistaken because I don't believe that I would change your mind.
> I do agree that ATV's are here to stay and I do not advocate trying to get rid of them. Wouldn't want to start that war plus I like to have them anyway. I assume you know that it is unlawful to operate an ATV without a helmet? The officers are aware of it but, have elected not to stir that pot.
> The dog issue that you identified, was brought to the club years ago.
> Not by anyone that opposed it but by another dog owner playing the devils advocate. You will disagree with the outcome of the decision. The club as a whole choose to follow the lead of the game commission. We had the Game Warden on site years ago because someone from town reported that we were hunting deer out of season. He observed the practice of running the dogs.
> He explained the law and stated that the issue had come before the game commission in the past. It was their decision not to issue any summons concerning the issue. The game commission in Richmond had decided to leave the situation alone. To make a specified season for running dogs would cause even more problems for everyone. #1- Sunday's would be out. #2- Summers would be out because of the newborn deer. The obvious time would be January to March and August to hunting season. Thus allowing the dog owners to legally run dogs through the bow hunting and Black powder season. This would then cause much bigger problems between the bow hunters and dog hunters. If a designated chase season was established, you would then have the Tree huggers and PETA screaming. The issue would get ugly quick.
> Without any direction, the large majority of dog owners pretty much do the same thing. Run the dogs at night or on days when the primitive weapons hunters are usually not hunting.
> The one thing that I believe is being overlooked is WHC is a dog hunting club. Always has been. Everyone is told that from the beginning, (before they join) The privileges of bow hunting and Black powder are additional perks that come with the membership in WHC. The dog owners give the bow hunters and black powder hunters the courtesy of allowing them to exercise their privilege without interruption of the dogs. You stated that the playing field is not level for bow hunters. We presently have three tracks of land totally 4200 acres. Starting at the beginning of October, bowhunters can hunt 6 days a week for 4 weeks without interruption of our dogs. When black powder season comes in, they can still hunt with a bow if they chose. When the general firearms season comes in, you can still hunt with a bow for the next 7 weeks. this makes a total of 13 weeks. The first week (Thanksgiving) there are no restrictions in hunting Rt 40 or the Mill pond. For the farm there are 3 parcels out of 10 restricted not to mention the entire swamp which consist of 300 to 500 acres. The next 4 weeks we hunt the farm on one Saturday (3 drives) and maybe two or three Thursdays(normally 4 small drives). Only on the last two weeks is the pressure really placed on the farm. This has to be, just to get the herd numbers down where they must be.
> The dog owners have voluntarily elected to not exercise the dogs between April 1st and Sept 1st. Thus not interfering with the newborn and the bucks that are in velvet. But, we can't do anything about Neighborhood and Farmers hunt club running their dogs all summer long which end up on the farm constantly. Regardless of what they do, we are not going to add to the problem. The dog owners reluctantly wait until either Saturday night or Sunday to exercise the dogs. Both of which are a major inconvenience to us.
> But, we do it because it is the courteous thing to do. To expect a dog owner to keep the dogs penned up from the end of one season until the start of the next season is inhumane. We are not going to do that. The club has operated like this as does any club you will find east of the Blue ridge.
> You and XXXXXX are considered real good members and are well respected. We would not want to see anything happen that would cause either of you to leave WHC. I would ask that you try to be as understanding about the dogs as we have about your interest.
> By past experience, it would be best not to discuss this issue by e mail any further. I would be more then glad to discuss it on the phone or even better in person. My above reply is in no way sent in a sarcastic view and in an argumentative response. It is to only give you a view from the other side. I should be at home tonight if you would prefer to talk
> further or you can always try me on any night. I hope you understand
> the
> clubs stand on the issue.



As you can see there is no regard for the game laws and no desire to ever adhere to the laws or the wishes of other club members. He's a self admitted law breaker for at least 10 years. There was a club rule all members must obey all State and local game laws. Maybe that should have said all but Jim Hackett.

I contacted the Surry AC on the dog shooting incident and they said there was nothing they could do on it. Guess that's why Michel Vick picked Surry to live and hold dog fights. 

We lost the lease to the land the year after that. I saw that as a good time to leave since the dues were not priced based on the acreage left and there was no other land acquisition on the horizon. As a note Jim Hackett did not pay dues as he was a dog driver. He was also president of the club. All other officers in the club, except his, were member voted positions. Gee big surprise on why he was self appointed for life. After we lost the lands he went back in and tore up the club house removing anything the club had improved on or added to the club house. I believe in VA if you do improvements on a leased property they become part of the property. Not your's to take when you leave. Maybe that's another legal issue? Items removed included pulling up the water lines out of the ground to the skinning shed, removing wiring, plumbing and other attached items in the house. The land is presently leased to others and as you might guess there is zero chance of him getting in there after leaving in the manner he did. This last info is to let people see the nature and manner Jim Hackett operates in.

The only reason I did not pursue the dog shooting further is it would require my daughter going to court and I did not want to subject her to all that. I talked to others experienced in abuse cases that said there was a really good chance he could be convicted if I and my daughter would come forward and testify. They felt laws on animal abuse were broken. That option is still open.

Think what you wish and pick it apart or say whatever. The facts remain there was a dog shot and killed that day. The dog was alive before his arrival and dead after his departure. He admitted shooting it on a phone call to me. Lets say just for arguments sake he did not shoot it. He's president of the club and as commander he's responsible for what happens under his watch. Since no action was taken to this mystery dog owner you have to assume it's an approved practice. That's assuming there even would have been one to take action on. 

The emails sent in his own words show he has no regard for laws and admits to illegally running out of season on deer for many, many years. Regardless of what others feel, I do not think he's worthy of a position on the SAC committee. How can a person with such disregard for life and law be qualified to make recommendations for all hunters in VA. on our future? 

Too bad Jim Hackett is not a member here to respond but I fully understand his reluctance to answer directly. I would love to hear him try to wiggle out of the self admitted offenses.


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## Hokieman

I only have 1 question. You said your daughter was 1 at the time and was riding a 4 wheeler. Explain this to me.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I only have 1 question. You said your daughter was -1 at the time and was riding a 4 wheeler. Explain this to me.


Typo I meant to hit two "1" keys and put in 11 - eleven. I missed it and it was past the 30 min fix the post time limit. 1 would be really talented to drive an ATV.  

So what do you think about the admission of training illegally for deer out of season for the last 10 years? This is exactly what I and many others state the problem is with the dog chasers. And a self admitted one is sitting on the committee that's supposed to fix the dog hunting issues? I really like the delusion that Richmond says it's ok as well. Just like now the dog was shot by a mystery owner that no one saw. I guess in his mind it all fits and works and we're all just supposed to believe it because Jimmy says so. At one club meeting in front of everyone while the meeting was in progress he said "some bucks don't lose their antlers and they stay on all year". 
The world according to Jimmy.  Now he wants all Virginia hunters to be in his world as well. I would like to think the others on the SAC are truly qualified and worthy to be there. I can't say that about Jimmy Hackett.

How about a response on the chasing illegally for 10 years admission? Did you catch the part about the adjoining clubs running all year and the dogs end up on our land? Just as I've said all along they all chase illegally. Now you have one of your own admitting it. And not just any dog chaser, one on the SAC committee that we're all supposed to respect and trust their judgment. Now you know why I feel as I do about him and the rest of the dog chasers. How do you feel now?


One more thing. Read the part about bow hunters get 6 days a week to hunt and Sundays are for training dogs. Like I and others have said the dog chasers are the reason Virginia can't hunt on Sundays. Here's your proof on that as well. It's all connected and it all goes back to the wish of the dog chasers to control all aspects of hunting for everyone in Virginia.


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## Hokieman

I never said it didn't happen by some clubs and these are the clubs we want to enforce the rules and regulations on and report these offensives, not every hound hunter in Virginia should be punish for a few or more dumbazzes.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I never said it didn't happen by some clubs and these are the clubs we want to enforce the rules and regulations on and report these offensives, not every hound hunter in Virginia should be punish for a few or more dumbazzes.


A few? Define a few? Hackett says the adjoining clubs all do it. That's 2 he names and his own club makes 3 out of 3. I've personally been in 7 or so and all but 1 did it. And they admitted to doing it in previous years. Denial right up to the end in the face of overwhelming evidence. Some things never change. This denial to believe or admit the truth is what will end dog chasing for deer.


Back to reporting the offenses' again? Lets start in square one again. You can't get an officer to even write a ticket because they know it's impossible to get a conviction. You can't stop law breakers if they know the law is unenforceable. The laws need a change. And who's going to recommend those changes? Jimmy Hackett!!! 
Swell !!!!!!!!!!


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## Hokieman

Rick I am not going to say damn the hound hunters lets restrict them all for doing this because they all don't. I have to take your word on these other clubs you were a member of but all I'm not buying it. Yes there is a problem and it will be addressed and hopefully it will be to the better for everyone. You just need to chill with all the hatred for hound hunters.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Rick I am not going to say damn the hound hunters lets restrict them all for doing this because they all don't. I have to take your word on these other clubs you were a member of but all I'm not buying it. Yes there is a problem and it will be addressed and hopefully it will be to the better for everyone. You just need to chill with all the hatred for hound hunters.


Nope don't take my word at all. Believe your fellow dog chasers. Let's take Jim Hacketts word. You can trust him he's a SAC member. You have an admission of running illegally for 10 years by one of your own and an admission of the adjoining clubs to his club running as well. Nope don't believe a thing I say. What's that place in Egypt? Oh yes, denial. 


FYI if the hound hunters and I'm talking deer hounds, not real fox hunters or **** hunters or rabbit hunters, or bird hunters would keep out of others seasons until it's their time, and stay on their own lands they could hunt all they want. I don't really care if it ends tomorrow for them but if they could clean their act up them let them go for it. As you can see from their own admission it's widespread and the illegal training is an ever constant event. How the fix is put into place is the BIG question. It's going to cause some pain for some but hey they've had 10 years to clean it up and they can't do it on their own.


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## tenbears

*Been there done that*

I've hunted with with Jim Hacket for 3 years. He is one of the most consistant lawbreakers when it comes to running dogs out of season. I really love his logic that scouting and setting trail cams is somehow more conducive to making deer nocturnal than running 5-7 deer hounds for 8-10 hours a night. Yeah, that doesn't bother them at all. This self appointed club president only had one purpose, if it makes dog hunting better we'll do it, everyone else be damed. We felt so proud and humbled when HE allowed us to bow and blackpowder hunt. Wow what an opened mined guy. He tried so hard to build his little "kingdom" of subjects, that he couldn't even see the writing on the wall when it started crumbling. A few members tried to tell him that the new owner had othe plans for the property but he was so consumed with his ego and knowledge he didn't see it coming. If it wasn't for a pick-up, 6 pack of dogs and a 2-way radio I doubt he could hunt his way out of the national zoo. For him to be on the SAC is as bad as putting Charles Manson on the parole board in CA. God have mercy on us all.


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## Moon

*I went down to the farm in Prince George this week*

to cut grass. It was 95 degrees at 2:45 pm. The clowns that lease the land behind my property were running dogs!!!!!! LATE JUNE, STILL DOING THEIR LAW BREAKING BS. I hope the ticks ate their azzes up.

I talked to a bowhunter at an archery shoot today that recently moved into SE Virginia. He asked has this BS dog thing always been this way here. I said "NO", it's worse than it has ever been. I've been in PG since 1969 and it's gotten progressively worse each year, especially during the last 12 years, for a fact, in the Waverly/Disputanta area.


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## BigBirdVA

Moonkryket said:


> to cut grass. It was 95 degrees at 2:45 pm. The clowns that lease the land behind my property were running dogs!!!!!! LATE JUNE, STILL DOING THEIR LAW BREAKING BS. I hope the ticks ate their azzes up.
> 
> I talked to a bowhunter at an archery shoot today that recently moved into SE Virginia. He asked has this BS dog thing always been this way here. I said "NO", it's worse than it has ever been. I've been in PG since 1969 and it's gotten progressively worse each year, especially during the last 12 years, for a fact, in the Waverly/Disputanta area.


It's always darkest before dawn.


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## Moon

*One thing is for damned sure*

Private land owners in our counties are NOT going to leave it alone until we get some control of WHO and WHAT trespasses on our property. You can count on that. All the BS you get from the regular deer chasing posters on this and other sites is just that...........................BS.

I love dogs, always have. It's not the dogs that are the problem. It's the sick law breaking and lack of any respect for private property owners that must be dealt with and will be. Show me a truck with a radio tracking antenae on the top and I'm fairly sure I can show you an a----le. 

No, it's not just a few bad apples as it is being suggested but rather only a few that DO abide by the law and respect others' rights.


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## Hokieman

You've sung that lie before Mr. Stastic.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> You've sung that lie before Mr. Stastic.


You're so right, it's just a few bad apples that break the laws over and over just as they've done for years. These few give all the rest a bad name. I'm so glad they have the right people on the SAC to suggest a fair and balanced proposal for our hunting future in VA. 




> The fact is that the problem is not the dogs at all. We only ran dogs at the farm prior to deer season 3 times this year. That is *the least we have ever done it in the 10 years we have been there.*


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## ButchA

Hey BigBird... You know what I did the other day? I actually sent Hokieman a PM on another forum with my phone number (home/cell). I asked him if he had time to call me. No B.S., no games, no anything.

Hokie called me at home around 10:30 a few nights ago. Let me honestly say, he's an okay guy. He bear hunts and **** hunts with dogs out in Giles Co. He understand the problems with the deer hounds and is just trying to find ways to help fix it. You see, if they do away with dog hunting, they'll do away with using dogs for *****, bears, rabbits, waterfowl, etc...

Basically, we all need to stick together however we can. You might want to take my approach and PM Hokie with phone numbers too. Talking to him one-on-one and not behind a computer really works well. He ain't a bad guy. He's just trying to help.


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## BigBirdVA

ButchA said:


> Hey BigBird... You know what I did the other day? I actually sent Hokieman a PM on another forum with my phone number (home/cell). I asked him if he had time to call me. No B.S., no games, no anything.
> 
> Hokie called me at home around 10:30 a few nights ago. Let me honestly say, he's an okay guy. He bear hunts and **** hunts with dogs out in Giles Co. He understand the problems with the deer hounds and is just trying to find ways to help fix it. You see, if they do away with dog hunting, they'll do away with using dogs for *****, bears, rabbits, waterfowl, etc...
> 
> Basically, we all need to stick together however we can. You might want to take my approach and PM Hokie with phone numbers too. Talking to him one-on-one and not behind a computer really works well. He ain't a bad guy. He's just trying to help.


I don't have a problem with **** hunters and have no experience with bear hunters so I don't and have never commented on bear hunting. Sticking together sounds swell. Like when poster boy Hackett stuck together with his dog chasing members in the club when we asked that he not illegally chase during bow season. I agree with a lot of things you say but they aren't taking away other forms of hunting in the western half of VA. and there are no deer hounds there. I'm not buying the "if they stop dogs - all hunting is doomed" theory. That's a hound hunters line to scare everyone it will all fall like dominoes if dogs are limited in any manner. I've also said I'm not 100% against dog hunting. Let them have their time in the woods if, and only if they let others have their's. I know one for the last 10 years hasn't done that and doesn't think, feel or care about their fellow hunter. Now that their ways are under the gun I'm suddenly supposed to be best friends? I do not feel sorry for whatever happens to them and deer hunting with dogs. They've done it to themselves and they've been doing it for a long time. All good things come to an end and this may not be the end but is it the beginning of the end.


I'm sure if HM wants to call me he can get my number from JH. JH doesn't have a problem calling others about me and telling stories to create problems.


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## Moon

*Singing a lie*

*You've sung that lie before Mr. Stastic.*

Let me know where you THINK I lied mr. deer chaser.

Butcha, you have a right to your opinion and I hope you feel better now. Tell me how you KNOW that bear, racoon, rabbit and even waterfowl hunting with dogs will also be ended if they stop deer chasing with dogs That line is just another BS song and dance from your buddy. If he's concerned the least about private land owners' rights it stands to reason that he would just once admit the SCOPE of the problem and not keep up with the continous "it's just a few that's causing the problem" nonsense. I have nothing to talk to him about and it would not be a civilized conversation for sure.


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## ButchA

*sigh*

Guys, I understand, okay? I understand... I just wanted to talk to Hokie on the phone and "see where he's coming from", you know what I mean? The deer dog runners are a problem, we all know that. Hokie even knows that and I assume, is trying to get everyone to clean up their act.

Hokie did mention a few things in confidence, and me being a man of my word, won't divuldge what was said. If you want to know more, send Hokie a PM with your phone number. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, I'm not saying he's a crowned prince either. But the conversation was very pleasant, and he's a pretty cool guy to talk to.

That being said, I don't know any land in Virginia and don't have deer hounds running amok. If I did, then yes, by all means I would be PO'd. I have had my share of deer hounds running around Cumberland State Forest during bow season and ruining my hunt. So, instead of fighting (which is what the ANTI's want, btw), I just go out west to the other side of the Blue Ridge, out to a great deer camp that I belong to in the GWNF, and hunt out there.


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## BigBirdVA

ButchA said:


> ........ I have had my share of deer hounds running around Cumberland State Forest during bow season and ruining my hunt. So, instead of fighting (which is what the ANTI's want, btw), I just go out west to the other side of the Blue Ridge, out to a great deer camp that I belong to in the GWNF, and hunt out there.


Not all of us are willing to leave the woods to avoid issues with law breakers. And with gas prices it's going to keep many closer to home and not as many long trips as often. A fix needs to be reached on dog hunting for deer. I've yet to hear of any fix from HM that will stop illegal chasing during bow and keep others off of lands that do not belong to them. The first part of fixing any problem is identifying it. So far HM sees no problems. We're still on an isolated few, and calling people liars when they say 90% of the dog chasing clubs they've been in have chased illegally. Denial isn't going to fix anything. Calling someone a liar isn't going to drum up support either.


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## Moon

*I don't need to know any confidential info from*

a deer chaser. My goal is not to try to convince them of anything because I know from experience that they have no intentions of changing or policing the 90% of them (in my area) that think they own the woods..................all the woods. I'm convinced, until I see otherwise, that the deer chasing situation will continue until legislators realize what it's doing to this part of the state and the situation must change. I can't see the large numbers of deer chasers suddenly saying OK guys, let's start abiding by the law and keep our dogs and ourselves off others' property. Can you? Where does that leave us? There's only one answer with the current mentality and it "ain't" good for the deer chasers.


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## tenbears

*What?????? No response*

Hey BB, did I miss something or did HM blow right by your lengthty and detailed rebuttal to Jim Hacketts "letter of lies". Seems like another trip up that river in Egypt. "If I close my eyes it doesn't exist" Also, whats up with wanting us to play nice now? Ain't happening! They need our support now that they have screwed it up for all of us. They laughed and scoffed at us for years when we asked for our time in the woods without being harassed by their dogs. The reply of "this is a dog club, you better get used to it" should be coming back to haunt them. The fact that HM hunts bear with dogs makes it worse for me. I had trail cam pics of 9 different bears on my property in Botetourt Co. The game warden issued a damage permit to a farmer that had already harvested 1/2 of his corn crop. The bear/hound hunter let the dogs on these bear and killed 4 of the 5, one week before bow bear season opened. A buddy and I had scouted and set stands for our first bear/bow hunt and had looked forward to this hunt since summer. Needless to say we didn't see a bear all week. I wonder if that same warden checked to make sure the gall bladders and hides didn't wind up on the black market. Just to set the record straight, we didn't start this mess. As far as I'm concerned they and they alone should reap the harvest of the seeds they have sown.


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## 3sheets

ButchA said:


> Basically, we all need to stick together however we can. You might want to take my approach and PM Hokie with phone numbers too. Talking to him one-on-one and not behind a computer really works well. He ain't a bad guy. He's just trying to help.


Do you call this sticking together and trying to help? :bs:

HB 1456 Hunting; persons with bow and arrow or crossbow may hunt on Sundays. Summary as introduced: Hunting with bow and arrow or crossbow. Allows persons who hunt with a bow and arrow or crossbow to hunt on private lands on Sundays. *VHDA Strongly Opposes any form of Sunday hunting. *This bill is merely an attempt to put the camel's nose under the tent. 

I sure as hell don't. :angry1:


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## Washi

Moonkryket said:


> Show me a truck with a radio tracking antenae on the top and I'm fairly sure I can show you an a----le.


 This is how we are starting to feel about "coyote" hunters around here. They let their dogs run all the time and they use them for deer hunting too even though it is illegal here. Maybe they are people who moved here from your area.
We've had a few problems with **** hunters too but it seems like they at least try not to piss people off.


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## ButchA

3sheets said:


> Do you call this sticking together and trying to help? :bs:
> 
> HB 1456 Hunting; persons with bow and arrow or crossbow may hunt on Sundays. Summary as introduced: Hunting with bow and arrow or crossbow. Allows persons who hunt with a bow and arrow or crossbow to hunt on private lands on Sundays. *VHDA Strongly Opposes any form of Sunday hunting. *This bill is merely an attempt to put the camel's nose under the tent.
> 
> I sure as hell don't. :angry1:


I know, 3sheets, I know... I guess all I am saying is to maybe PM Hokieman and/or talk to him over the phone.


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## rick64

ButchA and Hokie? There is a chance for world peace.

That's some interesting info BB.


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## BigBirdVA

rick64 said:


> ButchA and Hokie? There is a chance for world peace.
> 
> That's some interesting info BB.


Yes it is. Here's a trail cam pic from this last week or so. Things just do not change.


I know it's coming so to save some the process of pointing out the date isn't correct - the date isn't correct!



I was out in the country today working and the property owner was commenting on the dog chasers and the number of dogs she has caught and turned in to AC. I didn't even start the dog hunting thing - they did. I got the look when I said I hunt but then when I said I use bow they said well come fall you can hunt here if you want to. Looks like a lot are tired of the fallout from chasing.


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## tenbears

*Are you sure?*

BB, if I close my eyes I can't see a thing!!!


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## 3sheets

BB,

I'll just bet you had them call both the VDGIF as well as the "new/improved/I will get the problem resolved" Derick, didn't you? I'll bet they will sleep like a rock now knowing they won't never have anymore future problems whatsoever. :wink: :loco:


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## Hokieman

LIKE BB SAID THE DATE IS NOT CORRECT IT SAYS 2001 BUT YOU KNOW IT WAS LAST NIGHT.:wink:


R U GOING TO VOTE FOR A TERRIOST?


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> LIKE BB SAID THE DATE IS NOT CORRECT IT SAYS 2001 BUT YOU KNOW IT WAS LAST NIGHT.:wink:
> 
> 
> R U GOING TO VOTE FOR A TERRIOST?


Do you ever look at something before you open your mouth? You know 30 seconds in Photoshop and it's gone. Could have cut or removed the day stamp and time stamp but the pic is from the property owner with his older 35mm trail cam. So to be 100% honest ( try it sometime ) in case the pic appeared somewhere else I left it as it was sent to me. The clarification on the cam is no month or year just day and time in 24 hr format. 

So Mr Know it all, it's not 2001 it 23:01 or 11:01 pm. Are you blind as well? Here's some pics with a mystery guest walking past the cam. Various opacity with the paste on top of the dog pic. The mystery person pic was sent cropped to me - all just as I received them. The dog pic was June 04.


To help you out it's 9:48 June 25th, not the 25th month in the year 948. LOL 
I know hanging around dog chasers all the time makes you doubt anything people say but some of us tell it like it is.


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## tenbears

*Still no response*

Hey BB, still waiting on HM to respsond to the "letter of lies". Way to busy "pickn' nits" to answer a real discussion.


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## Hokieman

sos different day. You want some cheese with that whine.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> sos different day. You want some cheese with that whine.


Tell me again why someone would waste the time to call this guy on the phone? 


Question has been asked...........
Care to give thought or comments on JH own email where he states he's been illegally training for the past 10 years?


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## tenbears

*Dog colored glasses*

If it sounds like whinning, your problem is obvious, you drank enough of the koolaide that it's impossible for the truth to get in, even though Hackett admits he runs dogs out of season and that he has no regard for other ethical hunters. You need a white, red tipped cane. Oh yeah, and radio collars to find your hounds.


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## BigBirdVA

tenbears said:


> If it sounds like whinning, your problem is obvious, you drank enough of the koolaide that it's impossible for the truth to get in, even though Hackett admits he runs dogs out of season and that he has no regard for other ethical hunters. You need a white, red tipped cane. Oh yeah, and radio collars to find your hounds.


I believe he already has all that.


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## Hokieman

I admit. I seen were Hackett admited to illegal dog running, but that is past tense, nothing can be done about it or you would've done it. agreed. I don't like it no more than you do.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I admit. I seen were Hackett admited to illegal dog running, but that is past tense, nothing can be done about it or you would've done it. agreed. I don't like it no more than you do.


Past tense but what's to keep it from being present tense again? What about others? How can it be stopped? And don't harp call because I've called and have emails from VDGIF district supervisor for my area and they say they are powerless to stop it with the law as it's presently written. So how do you stop the jerks without hurting real fox hunters?


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## Hokieman

I've got an answer but one you might not will like, but if I personally had the problem. I would catch the hounds and call the animal control to come and pickem up. I forgot to add, make sure land is posted no hunting.

§ 3.1-796.93. (Repealed effective October 1, 2008) Governing body of county, city or town may prohibit dogs from running at large. 

The governing bodies of the counties, cities and towns of this Commonwealth are hereby authorized to prohibit the running at large of all or any category of dogs in all or any designated portion of such county, city or town during such months as they may designate. Governing bodies may also require that dogs be confined, restricted or penned up during such periods. For the purpose of this section, a dog shall be deemed to run at large while roaming, running or self-hunting off the property of its owner or custodian and not under its owner's or custodian's immediate control. Any person who permits his dog to run at large, or remain unconfined, unrestricted or not penned up shall be deemed to have violated the provisions of this section. 

(1984, c. 492, § 29-213.63; 1987, c. 488.)


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## BigBirdVA

Catching is the hard part. If you're up a tree it means missing hunting time. Guess it's trap time. I'll try a live catch first. Then onto what I know works. Bought my trapping license already for this upcoming season. We already have trail cam pics of a JH club member over the line on posted lands. Going to be a swell time for all this fall. :sad:


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## BigBirdVA

Just got some copies of proposals. Looks like they've identified the issues and know what needs to be done. All that's left is to do it. I see big changes for the dog chasers in 2009. :dancing::dancing:


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## BigBirdVA

Just got back from a focus group meeting in Richmond. The technical group report comes out this Friday. All I can say is change is imminent for the dog chasers. Not a question of if but when. Also met the guy that started it all. Some ideas were kicked around on a permanent solution to the problems and the days are numbered. Chase while you can. And this fall things are going to be done a little differently. Remember that quote the dog chaser mouthpiece always says, "enforce existing laws"? Be careful what you ask for. Should be a fun year in the woods.


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## Hokieman

"Also met the guy that started it all" who would that be?


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> "Also met the guy that started it all" who would that be?


The guy in VA. that sued the local dog chasers for constantly going onto his land and disrupting his peace. Sued for no money. Got a restraining order. Then in typical "we own the woods" manner the dumb butts still did their dog chaser act. Went to court again and judge gave the prez 30 days suspended for 2 years if they kept off his land. 

He then went to the VDGIF board and presented this info so the state could fix the dog chasers mess before it went to court again or worse a statewide referendum stopping all hunting with dogs. Lots was discussed and the RTR law is under heavy fire. VA is the only state that has that law. The RTR would not hold up if it was pushed in the courts by lets say a group formed for that sole purpose. A group who took membership $$$ from non-hound hunters or landowners and others to build a war chest and hire a lawyer to stop it via the courts. You should be familiar with a groups soliciting funds for an agenda.  Look for something like that to happen if the study doesn't fix it first. You can bank on one thing it's coming. May not be all at once but this is the beginning of BIG change. The highly biased and weighed to the dog hunters side SAC recommendations mean nothing so you know. They do not have the final say and those running the study have the issues identified and the fix identified as well. Enjoy it while you can. Heard what happened in other states and it put a dent in it there. They have min sizes of acerage, dogs or hunters can't cross property lines. These things worked as complaints dropped. They'll do what it takes to fix it here as well.

Also remember you always said enforce existing laws. Watch what happens this fall. Got the scoop on what's in store. :zip: 

All I can say is it's finally happening. :laugh:


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## Hokieman

All I can say is Jeff Mcdermott, DGIF board and the SAC is pissing in the wind.:darkbeer:


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> All I can say is Jeff Mcdermott, DGIF board and the SAC is pissing in the wind.:darkbeer:


When a law suit on the RTR law hits and it's found to be unconstitutional you can do the big piss. Why do you think VA is the last and only state with such a law? All the other states that saw dog chasing change probably had their own little version of Hokieman too. Maybe you can form and join a support group when it's over. Lawsuit does an end play around the legislature and your little PAC BS. Instant game over. No committee, no vote no more dog chasing onto others lands.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> When a law suit on the RTR law hits and it's found to be unconstitutional you can do the big piss. Why do you think VA is the last and only state with such a law? All the other states that saw dog chasing change probably had their own little version of Hokieman too. Maybe you can form and join a support group when it's over. Lawsuit does an end play around the legislature and your little PAC BS. Instant game over. No committee, no vote no more dog chasing onto others lands.


There was no judge in virginia that made any decision in public court that the rtr law is unconstitutional. Jeff is blowing smoke up everyone's azz and he knows it. I am calling his bluff. now go run and tell him.:wink:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> There was no judge in virginia that made any decision in public court that the rtr law is unconstitutional. Jeff is blowing smoke up everyone's azz and he knows it. I am calling his bluff. now go run and tell him.:wink:


I know that, it hasn't been challenged - yet. But when it does it will be thrown out. The state can't take use of your land and give it to others without compensation. Privacy and rights on your own land are the basic building blocks of this country. The RTR gives that away. If it was a good and valid law why is VA the only state left with such a law. Days are numbered. Go run your dogs while you can. 


Be careful swimming in that big river, denial. A lot that spend excessive time there have drown.:59:


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> I know that, it hasn't been challenged - yet. But when it does it will be thrown out. The state can't take use of your land and give it to others without compensation. Privacy and rights on your own land are the basic building blocks of this country. The RTR gives that away. If it was a good and valid law why is VA the only state left with such a law. Days are numbered. Go run your dogs while you can.
> 
> 
> Be careful swimming in that big river, denial. A lot that spend excessive time there have drown.:59:


I guess we shall see what the future holds.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I guess we shall see what the future holds.


I've seen the future. Well not exactly. I've read what other states that had dog issues had to do to stop the problem they created. Min acreage, a separate license to dog hunt deer, ID dogs and clubs, club permits and the RTR wiped out totally as well as no dogs on others lands without permission. VA is the second most populated state in the south. It was just a matter of time until this happened. I don't see how it held out this long. To stay in denial only makes it worse. I learned so much on it all at the meeting it's even more clear how it's all going to end up.


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## Hokieman

Sounds like a good ideal, The only problem is winning a court case like this and the years it would take to do so could bankrupt some.:wink:


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## Hokieman

Your comment with Hackett was damn good.:darkbeer:


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## BigBirdVA

On the other forum?




Hokieman said:


> Sounds like a good ideal, The only problem is winning a court case like this and the years it would take to do so could bankrupt some.:wink:


I've waited this long what's another few years. The $$$$. Well it's not just the anti hound hunters. It's property owners, hikers, and lots of others that have had issues with dog hunters over the years. The "run-n-gun in your face and if you don't like it, it's tough" manner many used for years has finally caught up with them. It was bound to happen. The SACs unwillingness to come to a working compromise that addresses the real issues and fixes them leaves no alternative. You have arrogant members that would ride the ship down rather than give one inch. In a way I feel sorry for you guys being unable to make it work. You are not represented correctly and neither is the other side. It's a cluster to me but it's all each side has for the present time.


Oh forgot to add, there is probably at least one more surprise for JH coming along. Best for last? Maybe.


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## BigBirdVA

Anyone know what season was in yesterday, Sunday? Heard hounds running late in the day. You would think with all that's going on they would stop. Not until they're forced to will they comply.


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## Hokieman

Foxhounds can run 365 days a year. Did you happen to see them oh thats right you said you heard them.:tongue:


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Foxhounds can run 365 days a year. Did you happen to see them oh thats right you said you heard them.:tongue:


That's funny those idiots at (804) 367-1258 said not on Sunday. But hey what do they know they're only game wardens? Wow ! I guess that's a complaint to add to the numbers for this year.


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## Hokieman

Fox
Hunting With Dogs and Firearms
Season:
November 1-February 28. Closed in Albemarle, Clarke, Culpeper, Fauquier (except Quantico), Loudoun, Louisa, and Rappahannock counties.

Dogs May Not Be Used:
To hunt foxes during deer season (with or without firearm) 
On the Gathright, Goshen, Highland and Little North Mountain Wildlife Management Areas and within the boundaries of the George Washington/Jefferson National Forests. 

Hunting With Dogs Only
Continuous open season statewide; Closed March 1-October 31 on the George Washington/Jefferson National Forests and on Gathright, Goshen, G. Richard Thompson, Highland, Little North Mountain, and Rapidan WMAs.

Restrictions:
To have in possession a firearm when hunting fox outside of the dog and gun fox season. Possession shall include, but not be limited to, having any firearm in or on one's person, vehicle, or conveyance.


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## BigBirdVA

Ever actually read the game law book? Do you understand English? Called the regional office (804) 829-6580 and talked to a Lieutenant Ken. He confirmed the below information. Training is hunting and hunting is illegal on Sunday with a few exceptions. Chasing foxes is not one of those exceptions. Hope this clears up your confusion on dog chasing laws on Sundays. After 2 a.m. Sunday morning nothing is supposed to be running and barking through the woods anywhere in VA.

I do find it quite humorous the mouthpiece for VAHDA doesn't even know the game laws for the "sport" he's trying to save! 

It is unlawful to:
• *Hunt wild birds and wild animals with firearms or other weapons on Sunday, except on licensed shooting preserves.* 
Raccoon hunters may hunt until 2:00 a.m. Sunday mornings.

*Training Dogs*
*The training of dogs on live wild animals is considered hunting and is unlawful during the closed season except as noted below.*
• You must have a valid hunting license while training dogs on live wild animals.
• You may train dogs during daylight hours on rabbits and non-migratory
game birds on private lands. Participants shall have no weapons other than
starter pistols in their possession and no wild animals shall be taken. Weapons
may be in possession when training dogs on captive raised and properly
marked mallards and pigeons so that they may be immediately shot or recovered, except on Sunday.
• You may train dogs on National Forest or Department-owned lands only during authorized training seasons that specifically permit these activities.


----------



## jfish

*Running on Sunday*

I happen to be in a public place (office lobby) this morning and over heard a conversion that fits the current discussion. This well dressed gentleman who appeared to be a professional type was talking about the upcoming season. He was discussing how he has been running his deer hounds at least once a month since last year, and does so on Sundays. He stated he in a club in Isle Wright which I recognize as one of the larger clubs in that area but will not disclose in a public forum. I would hate to tarnish their name due to this one member's illegal actions. I can't help but think they (the club) probably is aware of his actions and it would not surprise me if others do the same. 

It is behavior and attitudes like I observed today that has caused this division between hunters...


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## BigBirdVA

I would bet he's not the only member doing it. Clubs I've been in had 3-5 dog drivers. 1 club had club dogs and handlers. Take even half of the dog drivers and multiply that times the many clubs and you have an idea of how many are running throughout the year. And it gets more frequent the closer it gets to mid November. A great recipe for conflict. But like HM's post above shows many aren't even aware of the laws. If a board member of one of the states most vocal pro-hound groups doesn't know, how's a regular Joe hound hunter that isn't active on forums and such going to know? Take that with years of people like Hackett telling others the VDGIF said it's ok and it's no wonder it's a big mess.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Ever actually read the game law book? Do you understand English? Called the regional office (804) 829-6580 and talked to a Lieutenant Ken. He confirmed the below information. Training is hunting and hunting is illegal on Sunday with a few exceptions. Chasing foxes is not one of those exceptions. Hope this clears up your confusion on dog chasing laws on Sundays. After 2 a.m. Sunday morning nothing is supposed to be running and barking through the woods anywhere in VA.
> 
> I do find it quite humorous the mouthpiece for VAHDA doesn't even know the game laws for the "sport" he's trying to save!
> 
> It is unlawful to:
> • *Hunt wild birds and wild animals with firearms or other weapons on Sunday, except on licensed shooting preserves.*
> Raccoon hunters may hunt until 2:00 a.m. Sunday mornings.
> 
> *Training Dogs*
> *The training of dogs on live wild animals is considered hunting and is unlawful during the closed season except as noted below.*
> • You must have a valid hunting license while training dogs on live wild animals.
> • You may train dogs during daylight hours on rabbits and non-migratory
> game birds on private lands. Participants shall have no weapons other than
> starter pistols in their possession and no wild animals shall be taken. Weapons
> may be in possession when training dogs on captive raised and properly
> marked mallards and pigeons so that they may be immediately shot or recovered, except on Sunday.
> • You may train dogs on National Forest or Department-owned lands only during authorized training seasons that specifically permit these activities.


LOL I know the game rules and regulations but with you telling so many different tales of dog running on property around you I just couldn't resits throwing a bone. Always gotta be the pitty patty person huh Rick whoa is me. You even won't people who uses profanity out of your ear range and written a ticket. LOL you are such a whinny old fellow.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> I would bet he's not the only member doing it. Clubs I've been in had 3-5 dog drivers. 1 club had club dogs and handlers. Take even half of the dog drivers and multiply that times the many clubs and you have an idea of how many are running throughout the year. And it gets more frequent the closer it gets to mid November. A great recipe for conflict. But like HM's post above shows many aren't even aware of the laws. If a board member of one of the states most vocal pro-hound groups doesn't know, how's a regular Joe hound hunter that isn't active on forums and such going to know? Take that with years of people like Hackett telling others the VDGIF said it's ok and it's no wonder it's a big mess.


omg it's getting deep in here now. I've got to put on my waders. BS up to your neck.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> LOL I know the game rules and regulations but with you telling so many different tales of dog running on property around you I just couldn't resits throwing a bone. Always gotta be the pitty patty person huh Rick whoa is me. You even won't people who uses profanity out of your ear range and written a ticket. LOL you are such a whinny old fellow.


Another classic example of why the survey was started. Inability to see or feel for your fellow hunters. It's whinny when another hunter wants the laws followed but it's real important when those same laws might interfere with your chosen activity. That one way street sign is in the process of being removed. 

Not buying the "I know" story either.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> omg it's getting deep in here now. I've got to put on my waders. BS up to your neck.


Yawn........ anything anyone says just isn't so. Take poster boy and your new best friend Hackett. He did up until this year. He admitted it on speeddogs too. And don't forget his emails detailing it. But if anyone else says it then it's just not so. Denial right up to the end. Look what one county in NC is about to do. They didn't need a survey either. Every deer dog hunting state has made changes. Did you think that get of of jail free card is going to last forever?


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Another classic example of why the survey was started. Inability to see or feel for your fellow hunters. It's whinny when another hunter wants the laws followed but it's real important when those same laws might interfere with your chosen activity. That one way street sign is in the process of being removed.
> 
> Not buying the "I know" story either.


Mystery at Mountain Lake
Who was the person whose final remains -- and possessions -- finally came to light again on Saturday, amid the muddy clods at the bottom of a dry lake?
By Shawna Morrison


Photo courtesy of the Giles County Sheriff's Office

A pair of McCreery wingtip shoes lie embedded in the dried muck where they were found. The shoes have Sullivan's Safety Cushion heels held in place with six nails.


The Roanoke Times | File 1938

This partial view of Mountain Lake was taken from a small boat landing at the lower end, with Bald Knob rising in the background.


Justin Cook | The Roanoke Times

This photo, taken Monday, shows the condition of the lake today and the site where human skeletal remains were found in the dried muck.


Photo courtesy of Richard Cobb

Officials work inside a cordoned-off area in the dry bed of Mountain Lake, near Pembroke, on Sunday. A man discovered bones there Saturday while collecting old bottles with his son.



PEARISBURG -- He wore a belt with a silver buckle and carried a fancy silver cigarette box, both engraved with elaborate cursive initials that appear to be "SCF."

His old McCreery wingtip shoes had Sullivan's Safety Cushion heels held in place with six nails.

His gold class ring carried the initials "MC" on one side and "CA" on the other, above images of trees carved into the metal. It bore a date on top that appears to signify that it is from the Class of '04 -- most likely 1904, Giles County sheriff's investigators say.

After his bones were discovered Saturday afternoon in the dried-up bed of Mountain Lake, investigators, forensics experts and anthropologists are trying hard to determine who "SCF" was -- if, of course, those were his initials and if the bones indeed belonged to a man.

"It is quite an interesting mystery and a unique case," said Donna Boyd, a Radford University anthropologist who is one of many people trying to piece together bits of information to learn who the person was and what happened to him or her.

One thing is certain: The remains that Timmy Dalton stumbled across as he searched the lake bed for treasures Saturday afternoon did belong to a person.

"There's nothing that looked like a body laying there," Giles County Sgt. Tommy Gautier said Monday. Only fragments of bones, including a rounded piece that appears to be part of a skull, were found, he said. A medical examiner confirmed that they were human, he said.

Dalton said he didn't realize what he had found at first, either.

He and his 14-year-old son, Chris, were combing the lake bed Saturday afternoon for old soda bottles to collect, something they have been doing about once a week for the past couple of months.

Chris called to his dad and told him he had found a pocketknife, a wallet and some shoes.

Dalton said it isn't unusual to find shoes and other items of clothing in the muck. He didn't think much of it until he turned over some dirt and found what he thought was a turtle shell. He then realized it looked a lot like part of a skull.

Chris and Timmy Dalton kept digging around, finding the class ring, the belt buckle, a dime from 1910 and a tooth.

They took some of the items home. But later that day, it nagged at Timmy Dalton that he might actually have found a person and that person's belongings. He called the sheriff's office and handed over to them all the items he had found.

"I just hope that it helps somebody," the still-stunned Dalton said.

Like Giles County investigators, Dalton has been searching the Internet for information about the clues he has, trying to find out more about McCreery shoes and what the initials "MC" and "CA" might stand for on the class ring.

In their Pearisburg office Monday, Giles County investigators were also searching online, but without much luck. They were focusing their efforts on dating the items that were found near the remains so they can narrow their search for missing persons reports.

Some of the items they found were buried underneath chunks of dried mud 6 to 8 inches thick.

The items were all found in an area of about 10 square feet, Gautier said. Based on what they have found, he said, investigators think the person died between 1920 and 1960. Coins found near the remains dated from 1907 to 1920 and included a wheat penny and a half-dollar.

They contacted four dentists to ask about the metal stud that protrudes from the end of the tooth they found. They learned it was a crown, the kind that would have been made in the 1950s or earlier.

Investigators cleaned a key found near the body by placing it in a little foam cup filled with hydrogen peroxide. They were able to make out lettering that signified the key was made by the Norwalk Lock Co., a company that dates to the 1800s.

They've also looked into the history of Mountain Lake and its hotel.

The first hotel, a wooden structure, was built at Mountain Lake in 1855 by Henley Chapman, Giles County's first commonwealth's attorney.

It was bought in 1869 by Herman Haupt, a Union general. He built an addition and had the railroad extended from Christiansburg to Pembroke so his friends wouldn't have to travel to the hotel by horse.

The hotel changed hands a couple more times before it was torn down in the late 1930s. Its owner at the time, William Moody of Galveston, Texas, built the stone hotel that stands today.

When Moody died in 1954, he left the property to his daughter, Mary Moody Northen. She bequeathed it to the Mary Moody Northen Endowment when she died in 1986.

The hit movie "Dirty Dancing" was filmed there the same year.

Mountain Lake has been filled with water for years but is now almost completely dry. The lake periodically dries up, then refills itself.

According to core samples taken by Virginia Tech biologist Bruce Parker and his former students, Mountain Lake has dried up at least six times in the past 4,500 years and at times remained dry for decades.

Investigators said they are grateful that the lake is dry now, giving them the chance to uncover the mystery that could have been mired forever in the bottom of a full lake.

It could take months to determine who the person was, Giles County Sheriff Morgan Millirons said.

"We're turning over every rock that we can find to try to find some information," Millirons said.

Boyd said she will conduct a basic forensic analysis to determine the person's age at death, sex, ancestry and stature in the next week or so.

Millirons said one doctor told him that the bones appear to have been at the bottom of the lake for 30 to 40 years. That number was based on their condition, he said.

Investigators asked hotel officials if they recalled any reports of missing people, but there were none.

"We're going to have to go back to old newspapers and check with some of the elderly people around to see what they remember," Millirons said. "We're just trying to figure out who it is, how long it has been there. And why."

Staff writer Tim Thornton contributed to this report.


----------



## Hokieman

BigBirdVA said:


> Yawn........ anything anyone says just isn't so. Take poster boy and your new best friend Hackett. He did up until this year. He admitted it on speeddogs too. And don't forget his emails detailing it. But if anyone else says it then it's just not so. Denial right up to the end. Look what one county in NC is about to do. They didn't need a survey either. Every deer dog hunting state has made changes. Did you think that get of of jail free card is going to last forever?



:darkbeer: I don't think so, not in VA pal.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> :darkbeer: I don't think so, not in VA pal.


If you had asked the dog chasers about the possibility of a hound survey 2 years ago they would have said the same thing - no way! 
Same comments the doggers in GA said when they cracked down on them there. A dogger is a dogger. It's a universal mentality. I've read posts from guys all over and they're one and the same no matter the origin of the post. That also means the problems they create are the same no matter the location. And guess what? If the problems are the same, the fix is the same too. You really don't get it do you?


What does a guy that fell in the water 50 yrs ago have to do with anything? Unless his dog pulled him under. Kind of like what's in store in VA. Their dogs are going to pull them under.


----------



## Hokieman

Like I have said before I never have seen a study on other hunting methods but maybe its time we do. for if one group has these bad people i am sure others do Trepass, shoot from the road, spotlight deer and lets not forget illegaly bait deer.


----------



## Moon

*You know the old saying*

"you can't win an argument with a fool" .........................especially deer chasing ones that show they are one by hanging around a "real hunting" site.:darkbeer::BangHead::argue:


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## Hokieman

you are the fool. I am a bowhunter get it. I also **** hunt, bear hunt, rifle hunt, muzzleload hunt. I am not just a deer hound hunter. I am a hunter. what are you?


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## BigBirdVA

Chasing isn't hunting. It's shooting. Like draining the lake and calling it fishing.


----------



## Hokieman

Yeah and baiting deer to a bait pile isn't hunting either or spotlighting them on your 4 wheelers or shooting them from your headlights or your vehicles. :wink:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Yeah and baiting deer to a bait pile isn't hunting either or spotlighting them on your 4 wheelers or shooting them from your headlights or your vehicles. :wink:


That's why I don't do those things. I'm also glad VA already has enforceable laws on the books for those offenses.


----------



## Hokieman

You and I both know the other offense has enforceable rule and regulations too but they don't enforce them. :sad:


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> You and I both know the other offense has enforceable rule and regulations too but they don't enforce them. :sad:


OMG !!! Like when Hackett admittedly ran his DEER dogs out of season for the last 10 years. That was enforceable? What a joke. Do you really believe the crap you post?

If it was truly enforceable people would be calling and the offender would get a ticket. That would ultimately put a stop to their activities. There would be no complaints only tickets issued and the Hound Survey would never have been needed.


----------



## Hokieman

I agree. Hackett is the type we need to weed out of deer hound hunting. His character is dubious and his word is crap.:wink:


----------



## Moon

**

*"you are the fool. I am a bowhunter get it. I also **** hunt, bear hunt, rifle hunt, muzzleload hunt. I am not just a deer hound hunter. I am a hunter. what are you? "*

What am I? I am a Prince George land owner, a "real" bowhunter for 47 years,
muzzle loader hunter, varmint hunter and soon to be trapper that's had a stomach full of your idiotic crap on a bowhunting site. My goal is to make your radio tracking antenna a future TV antenna so you can watch Micky Mouse, which would be less waste of your time than your deer chasing rants here....................and you called me a fool:icon_jokercolor:


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## Hokieman

I encourage you to call and report it if you have a problem. for shooting ones hunting dog is a crime.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I encourage you to call and report it if you have a problem. for shooting ones hunting dog is a crime.


No shooting for me. Catch and give to AC.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hey HM looks like you're not too happy with JH over on SD list. Too funny ! !


----------



## Hokieman

Your right.


----------



## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Your right.


I posted on hunting net 2 weeks ago, trading off an already lost asset for a training season was the smart thing to do. That's assuming you're capable of seeing the big picture ahead of time. Guess when it's all over everyone will see it. 

I figured the hound hunters would turn against SAC before it was over too. Looks like it's all going by the book, play by play. :zip:


WOW ! Looks like they've turned on you too over there. Rough crowd you hang with.


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## Hokieman

It's a stroll down the boardwalk Rick nothing I can't handle. I see the big picture to bad Judas Jim doesn't.


----------



## coxva

Well this doesn't shine any light on the VDGIF intentions, but this story showed up on yahoo from the AP. 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080927/ap_on_re_us/hunting_with_hounds


----------



## BigBirdVA

*Another landowner law suit in the courts*

Another story will be out soon. A landowner in Isle of Wight is taking a hunt club to court to seek an injunction to keep them off his land. He had a trespassing charge against them earlier this year but it was dismissed. Now he's due in Suffolk courts 10/8/2008 on this. And the hunt clubs lawyer is vice chair of VDGIF. Interesting stuff huh?


----------



## BigBirdVA

More dogs running deer yesterday. Hey isn't that illegal? They just don't get it.


----------



## BigBirdVA

*Be Careful What You Wish For*

More "fox hounds" out again today and yesterday. 

Just got an article on what the VDGIF plans to do this fall. Was talking to the GW today and he told me they are already charging people with this offense. Checked the court docket and 2 are due in court next month on it. 



> Northern Neck News article.
> 
> 
> From the Wild
> By Sgt. Rich Goszka Virginia Conservation Police
> 
> More enforcement of Hunting laws
> 
> If any of you have been following the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (DGIF) Hound Hunting Study many of you will know that one of the many recommendations the citizen committee of this study has recommended is that DGIF law enforcement enhance their enforcement of our laws and regulations. Many Virginia Counties east of the blue ridge have passed resolutions supporting hound hunting and also requested the enforcement of existing laws and regulations, including one recently passed by the Richmond County Board of Supervisors. The Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance, which many local hunting clubs in the Northern Neck have joined, has also called for DGIF to enforce the existing laws rather than create new laws.
> 
> As the supervising Conservation Police Officer (CPO) in the Northern Neck I am getting the message loud and clear as to what our hunters and citizens of the Commonwealth are asking for. As a result I am putting a plan of action together to further the enforcement of the existing laws and regulations already on the books. The following are the existing laws and regulations that local CPOs assigned to the Northern Neck will actively seek out violations of. I feel that this should be made public in an effort to educate hunters and citizens of the Northern Neck as to what to expect as to the changes in our enforcement practices.
> 
> 
> One of the biggest complaints we get every year in the Northern Neck is road hunting, blocking the road or using the road as a form of trespass. The Code of Virginia clearly states that no person shall stop a vehicle in such manner as to impede or render dangerous the use of the highway by others, except in the case of an emergency, an accident, or a mechanical breakdown. A highway is defined as the entire width between the boundary lines of every way or place open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel in the Commonwealth. We will enhance our effort to enforce this existing law. The highways of Virginia are designed for vehicular traffic and not for the purpose of hunting. As State sworn law enforcement officers we have an obligation to protect the safety of the general public. The use of the highways for the purpose of hunting when it creates a public safety hazard is a violation of the Code of Virginia.
> 
> 
> Currently there is no legal chase season for deer outside of the general firearms season. Many deer hound hunters are using the fox chase season as the loophole in the law to run their deer hounds illegally. Under 29.1-516 of the Code of Virginia it states that the hunting or pursuit of foxes shall mean the actual following of the dogs while in pursuit of a fox or foxes or managing the dog or dogs while the fox or foxes are being hunted or pursued. The following of fox hounds means to travel behind the dogs during the chase. To manage the fox hounds means to be in charge of and give commands and direction during the chase. We will begin to enhance our efforts to enforce the provisions of this law and those that are running their deer hounds during the closed season. If deer hound hunters want a chase season they need to make this known to the DGIF and its board during our public comment period of our regulation cycle.
> 
> As to the enforcement of the hunting trespass laws all Conservation Police Officers (CPOs) have access to local tax maps through a computer mounted in their vehicles. CPOs will use this new technology to enforce the hunter trespass laws. Hunters are required to obtain written permission on posted lands or verbal permission on lands that are not posted. Hunt Clubs that lease land or get permission from a landowner for an entire club need to have this permission or lease available for inspection by a CPO. All club members on posted lands must carry either written permission from the landowner or a club membership card. It is the hunter’s responsibility to know whose land they are hunting. This is a matter of respect for all landowners. Obtaining permission prior to hunting will go a long way to establishing better relations with landowners and the image of the hunter.
> 
> Many of you are aware of Virginia’s right-to-retrieve law it states that fox hunters and **** hunters, when the chase begins on other lands, may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, but may not carry firearms or bows and arrows on their persons or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent. Any person who goes on prohibited lands to retrieve his dogs pursuant to this section and who willfully refuses to identify himself when requested by the landowner or his agent to do so is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. This law is for retrieval of hounds only. This means a hunter can not wander around prohibited property looking for their dogs. Hunters must know they are there by hearing, seeing or pin pointing them with modern radio tracking equipment. Upon this knowledge they should then immediately retrieve them and leave the property. The right-to-retrieve law is not an invitation to continue the chase.
> 
> Finally, it is the mission of DGIF to protect the hound hunting future. We will attempt to do this by addressing problem areas, partnering with other enforcement agencies and to send a message to those that disrespect the time honored tradition of hunting with hounds by violating the laws and ethics of the sport. We can not do this with out your help. You the citizens of this Commonwealth are our “eyes and hears”. We count on you to report violations and to let us know were problems exist. To report a violation call our Wildlife Crime Line at 1-800-237-5712.
> 
> For more information on hunting safety and Virginia’s hunting laws and regulations visit the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries website at www.dgif.virginia.gov.
> 
> Send questions, photos and wildlife stories to:
> [email protected]
> P.O. Box 447, Warsaw, VA, 22572


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## Hokieman

Were's the link to that article?


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Were's the link to that article?


Was in the Northern Neck News. They have archives but they charge to access it. Was in the Oct 8th issue if you know someone that has access to it. 

I did check the court docket and there are 2 that are charged with it scheduled for court next month. Also heard that strict enforcement of the items listed in the article were on the agenda for this fall.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Were's the link to that article?


So you know I just talked to the writer of the article and it's for real. :wink:


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## Hokieman

There is some questions I'm going to ask him also.:sad:


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## BigBirdVA

Looks like they finally found a way to close the "chasing foxes" loophole when it's actually deer they're chasing. It's going to get a lot worse before it's over too. This is just part of the package that's in store this fall for a few. No make that more than a few. :zip:


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## Hokieman

Looks like you were mis - informed according to Bywater.ukey:


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## ButchA

Check out this article in the Hampton Roads newspaper by Lee Tolliver.

http://hamptonroads.com/node/484961

_"In the distance, the sound of gunfire echoed off the tree line. For one of the members of Jim's Hunt Club, the morning was a success."_

Um, someone explain this to me.... I though that general firearms season and/or muzzleloader season didn't open up for a few more weeks. The article above is dated October 21st. It also mentioned "rural Chesapeake"... There's parts of Chesapeake that are "rural"? :noidea:


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## ButchA

Oops.. Never mind. I looked it up on the VDGIF website... :embara:


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## jfish

*same old same old*

Ran across some bear hunters running hounds this weekend in the Nat Forrest. You guessed it, season is closed. You would like to think with all the attention this has drawn some folks would be more careful? I guess they just don't care? 

Adding to the argument and VDGIF complaint file one knuckle head at a time..


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## Hokieman

Did they say they was bear hunters? what were their names? Did you happen to get a vechile tag number?


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## ButchA

Hey Hokie... How ya doing?

I doubt if jfish got any names or license plates. You know and I know the GWNF is something like 800,000 acres. People hike in the GWNF _miles_ away from their trucks.


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## Hokieman

I set and read a hundred complaints a day from bulletin boards and none that I have seen or contacted ever has any proof or reported any offenses to DGIF or their hotline but none of you call it to report illegal hunting. What really ticks me off is that some of you is working with HSUS and Peta to do away with Hound Hunting in VA. Yeah you say your not but standing and making a fuss and joining in is standing strong with the enemy. I say who will stand with you when they wipe out hound hunting and come after bow hunting or any hunting. You can rest assure we aren't going to be the only ones they stop with if they get their foot in the door and restrict hound hunting or ban it completely. You all think of this the next time you support doing away with any hunting because you want more time in the woods for your selfish self. I am tick at all this crap.


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## jfish

*Maybe Maybe Not?*

Sorry fellows, whether I got Lic numbers ,how I know they were Bear hunters and what if anything will or was done will never be posted here. How the heck would we ever catch these so called bad apples if we did that? DUH! However, I do admit it was pretty stupid on my part to even mention the Nat Forrest, My Bad!

Besides, Maybe I was wrong and they only appeared to be breaking the law? I actually hope they continue doing exactly what I observed. :wink:

Hokie, I read your last post and promise I will do everything in my power to not let you down..


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## Hokieman

I would appreciate it. The one you report and the CPO'S arrest is one that won't be making us ethical hound hunters look bad. take a picture, write a tag number down, call a complaint in, and lets work together in getting this Jerk out of the woods and in Jail.


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I would appreciate it. The one you report and the CPO'S arrest is one that won't be making us ethical hound hunters look bad. take a picture, write a tag number down, call a complaint in, and lets work together in getting this Jerk out of the woods and in Jail.


Exactly how big is this jail? :wink:


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## Hokieman

LOL, Big Enough.


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## BigBirdVA

*$150 + $71 + 2 years probation*

$150 + $71 + 2 years probation is what the 2 guys received in court earlier this week for running hounds and not following them or the "fox hunting loophole" as it's come to be known. Could get expensive and a second offense within 2 years might be a big problem.


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## Hokieman

I had seen that but the too plead guilty. I am concerned with what the law means by follow. would it have been within legal if the two were mounted on horseback and was following the dogs?


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> I had seen that but the too plead guilty. I am concerned with what the law means by follow. would it have been within legal if the two were mounted on horseback and was following the dogs?


I think and I'm totally guessing it was the typical let 'em loose and sit in the truck deal. I think if you're doing what most consider an active hunt or chase you're ok. What do you do when you **** hunt? You let 'em out and go to the dog when it trees. You're there and actively involved in the hunt you're safe.

I'll ask the officer and see if he'll tell more.


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## Moon

*Passed up shots at 3 bucks yesterday*

All 3 were smaller than the two I took prior to deer chasing season. All 3 had their tongues hanging out from being chased for hours by packs of hounds..........and they call it "hunting":angry:


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## BigBirdVA

'Tis the season. Seems a lot of hounds and collars are coming up missing this year. Reading over on SD our dear friend Jim Hackett lost one last week. Found it shot in a field. Now I have to wonder did the thought of the the dog he shot a year ago that "didn't run" as he put it and dumped into the bone pit enter his mind? Funny how things like that work some times.


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## Hokieman

Rick that is cold - bitter cold :smile:


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## BigBirdVA

Hokieman said:


> Rick that is cold - bitter cold :smile:


Sorry but you have to look at the irony of it. He shoots a dog that doesn't run which is cold and one of his best is shot which isn't right either. Sorry but he insulted me, my daughter as well as lied on his past actions. He chooses what points of the law he feels are important to follow as well as disregarding the feelings and wishes of others in the process. But when it's his turn to seek help from the same laws he so easily ignores, he doesn't get it. And now he's upset. Well JH welcome to the club. All these things go both ways. He gets a taste of his own medicine. :angry: So JH how was it?


Only thing I'm glad about is I wasn't anywhere near there that day.



You can email him this link too. Hows that video coming along?


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## Hokieman

Rick 

Lets be public about the video. I mean I told you in confidence. now your making me rethink it.:thumbs_do


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