# 20 yrs later, asa shooter of year pay decreased!!!



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Good question I think they don't want it to get back to where it started with a large sponsor with great paybacks because then power would be taken out of certain peoples hands and they are satisfied with the money they make. It is one of the few sports you can name that actually went backwards from instead of forward growth!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

So where did the money go? Where did it come from when Wayne ran it? 

Hard to believe mike's getting rich when you put some math to it.....

Not disagreeing.......just asking

typed slowly and with many errors on this touchscreen.......


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

And then........ How does Senior pro get more than Open Pro?

http://www.asaarchery.com/ip/index.php

SOY results right there on the home page


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

tmorelli said:


> And then........ How does Senior pro get more than Open Pro?
> 
> http://www.asaarchery.com/ip/index.php
> 
> SOY results right there on the home page


My guess is the amount of shooters in the class and that determines the payout.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

YankeeRebel said:


> My guess is the amount of shooters in the class and that determines the payout.


You are right. I thought Senior Pro was smaller but after looking, the SOY pool was larger.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

i may be wrong, but my gut feeling is mike would not be against a major sponsor


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> First, I will say the ASA is the best archery org we have going! However, I just read they soy pay backs on asa webb site, and I cannot help to be disapointed. During the early years of the ASA, men's open pro SOY reward was $ 50,000 and 1st place for the classic was $25,000. This year, Levi won 4k thats $46,000 less! I would love to see the sport grow, but IMHO it has greatly digreased.1 Certain asa official hates it when positive facts of the past are brought forth,but like it or not, they are facts. simply ignoring them will not help.
> 
> ASA had a beer sponsor (miller) at one time. I am aware and respect that a certain owner is opposed to such sponsor ship. I wonder if that stance may have changed. I witnesd a young blonde cruising the bleachers and selling beer during the shoot down round. there was also a vendor there selling beer as well. thought id never see that at an ASA event
> 
> ...


Wow $46,000 less!! That's some major CASH!!! I wonder what happened and I wonder if WE as a Archery Community could draw in some heavy hitters to Sponsor our sport and bring back the big prize money?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Never understand not having sponsors for pro class. Happens in all others sports.

I doubt Mike not making some serious bucks.
DB


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Never understand not having sponsors for pro class. Happens in all others sports.
> 
> I doubt Mike not making some serious bucks.
> DB


I think until our sport is televised and heavily promoted it will remain as it is. If someone with the right business sense and financial backing it could really take off...and take off really big.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

YankeeRebel said:


> I think until our sport is televised and heavily promoted it will remain as it is. If someone with the right business sense and financial backing it could really take off...and take off really big.


It's been tried before and failed miserably. Archery is about as exciting to watch on TV as watching paint dry. Sorry but it just isn't a good spectator sport.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

Punch_Master said:


> It's been tried before and failed miserably. Archery is about as exciting to watch on TV as watching paint dry. Sorry but it just isn't a good spectator sport.


I disagree, and so does NBC. http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/nbc-says-archery-its-most-popular-sport-on-cable-networks/2012/08/02/gJQARKrxRX_story.html

The crowds at the ASA Pro Shootdown round are always energetic and excited as well.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Is it possible the industry related sponsors now pay a bigger amount to certain shooters via contract, rather than at the soy type deal?

I have heard how much a few shooters make from mathews, tru ball, scott.....not sure if ots true or not. But guessing its considerable higher than 20 yrs ago

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Garceau said:


> Is it possible the industry related sponsors now pay a bigger amount to certain shooters via contract, rather than at the soy type deal?
> 
> I have heard how much a few shooters make from mathews, tru ball, scott.....not sure if ots true or not. But guessing its considerable higher than 20 yrs ago
> 
> ...


There is a few....that get a nice contract amount.....not mentioning names


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

shootist said:


> I disagree, and so does NBC. http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/nbc-says-archery-its-most-popular-sport-on-cable-networks/2012/08/02/gJQARKrxRX_story.html
> 
> The crowds at the ASA Pro Shootdown round are always energetic and excited as well.


That is Olympic archery in a stadium where spectators can see everything and it only happens once every four years.
The crowds at the ASA pro-shootdown round are also either archers themselves or there with a archer. It's not like a pro golf tourament where the general public goes to watch by the thousands. In the IBO you see even less. All you see as a spectator in IBO is people leaving the tent in a group of four or five and coming back after they shoot.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

I might be wrong but I think back in the heydays budweiser was a major supporter and wrote the big checks.....


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

I don't think they want beer sponsors anymore 

ASA should be paying out more if you do the math 

Mike T and D Falk don't need steak dinners every night do they???


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## ScottyE (Apr 17, 2008)

shootist said:


> I disagree, and so does NBC. http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/tv/nbc-says-archery-its-most-popular-sport-on-cable-networks/2012/08/02/gJQARKrxRX_story.html
> 
> The crowds at the ASA Pro Shootdown round are always energetic and excited as well.


thank you. Archery is definitely fun to watch more so than darts, bowling and golf which are on TV.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

8782 X 50$ = $439,050 X 20% = 87,810 = $352,040 profit! Off registerstion 
Just used 50$ as a average registration fee.. 

14 ranges X 7 pro Ams = 98 X 3500 = $343,000
Don't know the arrangement on ranges with mckenzie!

Do venders pay for space ? What does it cost?

Do they pay for the shoot sight?

How much money do they collect from all the clubs across the country during the year?

I think Mike does well and lives a comfortable life... Why would he want a sponsor and lose a little power ? Not good for future growth!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Well the mckenzies are with mckenzie....there is nothing from them. 

There is also overhead costs as well.....lodging...meals.....gas.....payroll.....people dont do this for free ya know

awards.....equipment... others parts to a P&L statement.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Mike T is making a killing!!!!
Great business man if you ask me 
Has us driving 8-12hrs to hand him money


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

nope, they also pay less




Garceau said:


> Is it possible the industry related sponsors now pay a bigger amount to certain shooters via contract, rather than at the soy type deal?
> 
> I have heard how much a few shooters make from mathews, tru ball, scott.....not sure if ots true or not. But guessing its considerable higher than 20 yrs ago
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

they had the same cost 20 yrs ago,,,,,,thats a wash




bhtr3d said:


> Well the mckenzies are with mckenzie....there is nothing from them.
> 
> There is also overhead costs as well.....lodging...meals.....gas.....payroll.....people dont do this for free ya know
> 
> awards.....equipment... others parts to a P&L statement.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

You think Levi gets paid less than George Dixon or Joella Bates from Mathews?

Maybe so, i have no idea.... just find it hard to believe, 

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## TS36 (Nov 24, 2010)

It's alll Bush's fault!!!!!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Well the mckenzies are with mckenzie....there is nothing from them.
> 
> There is also overhead costs as well.....lodging...meals.....gas.....payroll.....people dont do this for free ya know
> 
> awards.....equipment... others parts to a P&L statement.


If mckenzie is with mckenzie then they are ripping us off with target prices!! You can buy a used range for 3500 with new cores 4200! If you order the same range from mckenzie it will cost well over 8000? And they still are making money off the 4200 used range price! Just imagine how much they are making off each target! I say a 400 retail price target could be sold for 200 and they would still make plenty of money..


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

So this seems like the perfect thread to ask....how do we bring the ASA north, like to ny,ma, vt, ct, etc... Don't you guys think with the wide spread growth and interest we could grow this sport by the states....more territory=more people and pay outs...let's pour some water on this and watch it grow...help me out


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I have no idea about levi vs other pros.,,,,,,no secret that women pros make a lot less.... but i do know for a fact contengency pay outs are less, and the general purse is less as well.

with the lower contengency and lower purses, equals less pay. not intending to slam anyone ok, im just saddend to see the demise....i could be wrong, but IMHO the incentive, motivation, aspirations, to become a pro archer or even travel to national events to compete in the joe classes is reduced. i love sports, and it ticks me off that our sport is not gven any serious respect. 




Garceau said:


> You think Levi gets paid less than George Dixon or Joella Bates from Mathews?
> 
> Maybe so, i have no idea.... just find it hard to believe,
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

And I agree on target price cenechos


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

Nobody willing to help?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Don't forget Uncle Sam's cut. Virtually across the board everyone who makes up to $90,000.00 pay in the same percentage in taxes. After $90,000.00 the more you make the more Uncle Sam takes, as in the percentage goes up.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Who's Gert, apparently it is their fault.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

gert is my wife aime whittington woman pro 3D archer


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Dude, I don't see how this is her fault.

Take care Jerry.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Garceau said:


> You think Levi gets paid less than George Dixon or Joella Bates from Mathews?





J Whittington said:


> I have no idea about levi vs other pros.,,,,,,


Archery News Now, now defunct. Last year Levi stated in a article he made $72,000.00 in 6 weeks. Shortly thereafter the only thing left of the article was his picture. 
Year 2004 or 2005? 3D Shooting Times, long defunct, noted Jeff Hopkins as the first to earn over $1,000,000.00 through archery.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

all her fault lol


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

Figures....


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

Figures


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

mathewsdad said:


> So this seems like the perfect thread to ask....how do we bring the ASA north, like to ny,ma, vt, ct, etc... Don't you guys think with the wide spread growth and interest we could grow this sport by the states....more territory=more people and pay outs...let's pour some water on this and watch it grow...help me out


The ASA tried having shoots in both Harrisburg PA and in Michigan for a few years and they had problems with low participation so they stopped. Currently with gas prices being so high and the economy doing as bad as it is the IBO (the prevailing 3D org in the north) is seeing decreasing numbers of shooters I highly doubt you will see the ASA try to go north again anytime soon.

You guys are just bringing up the same ideas that were thought of and already tried decades ago.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Don't forget Uncle Sam's cut. Virtually across the board everyone who makes up to $90,000.00 pay in the same percentage in taxes. After $90,000.00 the more you make the more Uncle Sam takes, as in the percentage goes up.


Unless you are a politician!

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Punch_Master said:


> You guys are just bringing up the same ideas that were thought of and already tried decades ago.


i don't know...look how many times Tom Edison failed before he got the light bulb right. wasn't for Tom we'd all still be going to bed at dark, which for a geezer, might not be a bad idea.

demographics change, the economy changes, things are always in flux. how many of those who were shooting decades ago are still in the game? many new faces who might be motivated to shoot 3d for reasons different from those back in the 80's and 90's and might respond to ASA.


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

That's my point exactly, seems to be growing rapidly here in new England, local shoots are packed. Maybe there is something I could do?


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

I fully expect to see the ASA start a Western Series. I don't know if it will ever happen, or if Mike Tyrell even would want it to, but I think there will be a tour in the West, and then the normal tour, and then the Classic will be the big finale. Again, maybe it isn't something Mike T. wants to mess with, but I think it could be successful. The numbers in the West might not be as strong early on, but I think it can be profitable. Maybe there should be a North region.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

mathewsdad said:


> That's my point exactly, seems to be growing rapidly here in new England, local shoots are packed. Maybe there is something I could do?


There use to be a regional ASA in the new england area at one time.... The numbers were very low and so the little NE regional faded out. 



For Darin,..... It's a nice idea....But, on the end for the vendors .....We get stretched pretty thin with all the events we do already.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

carlosii said:


> i don't know...look how many times Tom Edison failed before he got the light bulb right. wasn't for Tom we'd all still be going to bed at dark, which for a geezer, might not be a bad idea.
> 
> demographics change, the economy changes, things are always in flux. how many of those who were shooting decades ago are still in the game? many new faces who might be motivated to shoot 3d for reasons different from those back in the 80's and 90's and might respond to ASA.


Quite a few of us old farts are still at it actually and not THAT many new faces around here to be honest. Sorry but I don't share your view about changing times. I still say with the economy in shape it is in I don't see archery growing anytime soon. Back in the old days I remember MBO class the first year at snowshoe had something like 600 people in it. This year they had 161. Sorry bud but archery isn't growing anytime soon.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

J Whittington said:


> all her fault lol


lol....


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

mathewsdad said:


> That's my point exactly, seems to be growing rapidly here in new England, local shoots are packed. Maybe there is something I could do?


Packed local shoots aren't a good indicator unless several clubs are packed with attendance in the 200 and more realm. Our club was drawing a average of 187 shooters per event and some 30 NFAA members showed for the IAA 3D State Championship we hosted. Attendance down, but still in the 140s we had 40 show for the ASA State Championship we hosted. Again, most all ASA clubs in Illinois are hard pressed to get 35 ASA members to a Qualifier and Illinois is 2nd in most ASA clubs per state - Texas is 1st.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cenochs said:


> How much money do they collect from all the clubs across the country during the year?





Babyk said:


> Mike T is making a killing!!!!
> Great business man if you ask me
> Has us driving 8-12hrs to hand him money


Clubs get with the ASA for $370 per year, members, club, insurance and additional insured. With the NFAA and IBO you're looking at $750.00. So yes, Mike is one heck of a business man.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Clubs get with the ASA for $370 per year, members, club, insurance and additional insured. With the NFAA and IBO you're looking at $750.00. So yes, Mike is one heck of a business man.


Actually sonny...the ten members pay off to the club.....so its actually 50bucks...for the clubs ins...ans if you need addl its the extra.....also if your clud has life members...cuts the fee even more.....


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, bhtr3rd. ASA members, those replying here and those not clubs not ASA should consider this.
10 members at $30 - $300.00
club -------------- 50.00
Add. Insured ------- 20.00
Total ------------- $370.00

If our club went NFAA - last member count of last year...I think 120 members. 
5 members at $60 -- $300.00 (membership breakdown - $35.00 for NFAA membership and $25 for State membership) 
State Charter ----- 50.00 (club)
NFAA Charter ----- 25.00 (club)
Insurance -------- 549.00 ($357 base plus $4.80 for every member after 80)(exception; events with 300 or more contestants, must contact Sadler Insure)
Total -------------- $924.00

BUT! If you host a NFAA event, say just a state event, you have to pay the state association X% of money intake after expenses. Our club hosted one 3D Championship. After expenses were subtracted, 30% of net plus awards costs we wrote out a check for $1003.00 to the IAA.


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

How long ago was the Asa in new England?


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

i dont think a major/national event was ever there?


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

mathewsdad said:


> How long ago was the Asa in new England?


This was about 10 years ago they tried to do a regional 3 state shoot thing. I would have to go digging into old archive stuff, IF I had the time to do so.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Yes, bhtr3rd. ASA members, those replying here and those not clubs not ASA should consider this.
> 10 members at $30 - $300.00
> club -------------- 50.00
> Add. Insured ------- 20.00
> ...



Sonny,,,, Something you mgiht not know.....But all the associations can use the others INS as a rider.. it gernerally costs $50 bucks to have xyz as a rider on other ins.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bhtr3rd,
The NFAA recognizes a club being insured through ASA, no charge.
Done this twice; Club wanted to host a ASA Indoor event. Club named archery shop I work at as the indoor range, paid the additionally insured ($20.00) and the club was good to go....
Lorrain (in ASA Forums) noted this could be done maybe three years ago.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

SonnyThomas said:


> Clubs get with the ASA for $370 per year, members, club, insurance and additional insured. With the NFAA and IBO you're looking at $750.00. So yes, Mike is one heck of a business man.


How much does the ASA collect off each qualifier that is held in the US during the year?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Punch_Master said:


> Quite a few of us old farts are still at it actually and not THAT many new faces around here to be honest. Sorry but I don't share your view about changing times. I still say with the economy in shape it is in I don't see archery growing anytime soon. Back in the old days I remember MBO class the first year at snowshoe had something like 600 people in it. This year they had 161. Sorry bud but archery isn't growing anytime soon.


our local shoots generally split about 70/30 new shooters vs. old farts. look at the ASA shoots and you'll see open c and pro...i mean bow novice are among the bigger classes. i tend to agree with your assessment that archery doesn't seem to be growing, but then you have to look at all those kids shooting the nasp program and wonder if they're going to be moving into a life-long commitment to archery. imho they will if their parents support them in archery like they do in soccer and other sports.

let's keep our fingers crossed, eh?


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

cenochs said:


> How much does the ASA collect off each qualifier that is held in the US during the year?


Why does it matter to you what ASA makes? They are a business....... but if you really want to know.....ASA collects $5.00 per adult shooter minus any pros that shoot , also nothing from the youth - eagles. 
Adminsrative costs
Plaques costs
Buckle costs


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cenochs said:


> How much does the ASA collect off each qualifier that is held in the US during the year?


bhtr3rd has it. That ASA supplies the belt buckles and plaques for the State Championships, ASA probably broke even or lost money on our state. If by Carlos, the same for Indiana, broke even or lost money.

ASA saves clubs money on insurance over the NFAA and IBO. Clubs can actually bring in a few bucks on Qualifiers as they can be held in conjunction with a regular club 3D. $10 clear goes to the hosting club per contestant whether ASA Qualifier or Championship. ASA works with the clubs, allowing combinations of stakes, non-McKenzie targets for Qualifiers and more.
Sec/Trea for our club I figured belonging to the ASA and intake from 3 Qualifiers and 1 Championship. Intake cancelled cost to belong with the ASA and $80.00 plus to the club.
Host one Qualifier with 37 ASA constestants and it cost the club $0.00 to belong with the ASA.

Far as I'm concerned; More Power to Mike.


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

10 years? No I don't think so...ibo qualifiers yah, Asa no.... And the ibo qualifiers were all orange dot indoor....no thanks


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## mathewsdad (Apr 26, 2012)

Just a phone number from a top gun Asa Organizer would do...I'm down to put in the time to make this happen, it only benefits everyone, and as for sponsors being spread to thin, sometime times less is more


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Call the asa office....770-795-0232


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## Scott Bennett (Aug 12, 2012)

I was heavily involved in archery from 1991 until 2001. I can remember when the ASA payouts were as described by the starter of this thread, back in the day. We had this same conversation that leaves me to wonder if archery is really something I want to become heavily involved in again as I dont see the growth I would have expected to see after returning 11 years later. I understand its a hobby and it certainly dont pay my bills. But for the one's who rely on it to pay their bills, its very disheartening to know that archery seems to have gone backwards in terms of attendance/participation/payouts/incentives.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Scott Bennett said:


> I was heavily involved in archery from 1991 until 2001. I can remember when the ASA payouts were as described by the starter of this thread, back in the day. We had this same conversation that leaves me to wonder if archery is really something I want to become heavily involved in again as I dont see the growth I would have expected to see after returning 11 years later. I understand its a hobby and it certainly dont pay my bills. But for the one's who rely on it to pay their bills, its very disheartening to know that archery seems to have gone backwards in terms of attendance/participation/payouts/incentives.


I don't know what your talking about, ASA has had its numbers grow every year ....Plus, this year alone we broke records at every event. The issue about payback is moot and pointless. Back in the starting 90s...the pro money came from sponsors that were not in the archery world. (as businesses) and they also lasted just a year or two max per year. Their prize money did not go towards the amateur classes. Also, there had been three changes in how the payback formula worked.

Start of asa was just 10% of a classes field. 
That lasted till when all the people in the classes complained they were not getting anything. 
So, it was changed to 25% of the field....with that, the monies for the top of the class have to get broke down to pay more of the field....
This lasted a couple years. 
For the last 10 years its been the top 20% if im not mistaken. Also, a lot more sponsors/vendors are not doing contengency so there is also that keep in mind.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> I don't know what your talking about, ASA has had its numbers grow every year ....Plus, this year alone we broke records at every event. The issue about payback is moot and pointless. Back in the starting 90s...the pro money came from sponsors that were not in the archery world. (as businesses) and they also lasted just a year or two max per year. Their prize money did not go towards the amateur classes. Also, there had been three changes in how the payback formula worked.
> 
> Start of asa was just 10% of a classes field.
> That lasted till when all the people in the classes complained they were not getting anything.
> ...


Not all shoots broke records some barely broke 1000 shooters...


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

cenochs said:


> Not all shoots broke records some barely broke 1000 shooters...


sorry ghostrider........but this year was a banner year. every event overall numbers were up.


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## Scott Bennett (Aug 12, 2012)

bhtr3d said:


> I don't know what your talking about, ASA has had its numbers grow every year ....Plus, this year alone we broke records at every event. The issue about payback is moot and pointless. Back in the starting 90s...the pro money came from sponsors that were not in the archery world. (as businesses) and they also lasted just a year or two max per year. Their prize money did not go towards the amateur classes. Also, there had been three changes in how the payback formula worked.
> 
> Start of asa was just 10% of a classes field.
> That lasted till when all the people in the classes complained they were not getting anything.
> ...


So what you are trying to say is they added more classes so more people would "feel" competitive and doubled the percentage to be paid in each class, therefore results in lower payouts?


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Scott Bennett said:


> So what you are trying to say is they added more classes so more people would "feel" competitive and doubled the percentage to be paid in each class, therefore results in lower payouts?


Your exactly right Scott!! If you not winning at least your entry fee back don't send checks out for 10 and 20 dollars just save the stamp!! Combine classes and payout would go up and more people would get paid!! But for gods sake make the payback a minnimum of your entry fee and stop with all the 10 and 20 dollar checks!!!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Another problem I have is the way the move up rules are defined with money!! Money should never be in the equation of moving out of a archery class becuase the size of each class changes at each Pro Am. You could finish in the top 10 and 20 less people showed up for your class at a Pro Am and you would receive less payout. The only way money works is if each class had a predetermined payout amount. The ASA should just use your average place in your class over the Pro Ams and the top 5 shooters that average a top 5 finish and ties should be moved on!!! Don't use money until you are prepared to have a set determined amount of pay out for a certain class for move up...


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Ya sure was great in the Pearson days. Pro shooter of the year won $50K. Amateurs got $250 for first, $150 for second and $100 for third. Sure was alot better then............not. The beer money all went to the pros and the amateurs got squat(I know I was there). Things in ASA are not perfect but they are a helluva lot better than before Mike took over.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

if anybody thinks Mike is getting rich off the shooters, go out and set up your own archery tour...go bank all that money.
it takes organization and brains to have an archery tour that draws over 1,000 shooters from all over the country and showcases 3d archery the way asa does.

now, what was the original question????? :angel:


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## Scott Bennett (Aug 12, 2012)

cenochs said:


> Your exactly right Scott!! If you not winning at least your entry fee back don't send checks out for 10 and 20 dollars just save the stamp!! Combine classes and payout would go up and more people would get paid!! But for gods sake make the payback a minnimum of your entry fee and stop with all the 10 and 20 dollar checks!!!


After a quick glance over the classes at the ASA Classic...IMO, you could drop 8 classes and payouts would increase. I can list the classes and the reasons for dropping them if needed....

Bottomline, I thought the "ASA" was created to combine the best of the best from all over the country in one place at one time to see if you had what it takes to compete at the top of the chain. IMO, the local shoots are for everything else.....


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