# Destroyer 350...tuned to perfection



## baldyhunter

OK. I've been meaning to write this for a while now but haven't found the time. This is kind of an information dump on what I've learned about the bow so far and how/why I've been tuning it. This thread isn't a review other than to say that I love mine and have had zero issues with it so far.
Since I got the bow three weeks ago I have installed two different sets of strings and cables on it (my own) and have tuned it from scratch three different times so I am speaking form more experience in tuning this bow than most. The first two pictures are of the bow in its current iteration. The strings I've made for it are black/flame with clear roller guard servings. I like the looks a tad better than the stockers but opinions...opinions. The strings are 20 strands of 452-x and the cables are 24. Everything is served with .014 Halo. I would like to point out how well the factory strings are made with one exception. Usually I can make a good pre-stretched set and see some immediate speed gains but that was simply not the case here. I made two different sets and played around with speed nocks for hours at a time (probably five or six all told) and could not find more than one or maybe two fps over the stock rigging. This speaks of how good the stock strings are. I did dislike one thing however. While I was tuning with the stock strings I did notice a need to "shoot in" the cables several times after each adjustment. Even then when I'd leave the bow for extended periods there was some movement as things settled over night. I believe that the "y" not being served on the cables was the culprit. When it isn't served the cable has two settle in two areas with each adjustment...it has to equalize at the legs then that pressure has two equalize within the entire strand bundle itself. Both the sets I made are served at the "y" and I didn't notice this tendency at all with mine. I simply made adjustments shot twice to settle and they stayed put. Therefore, if you like to tune your own equipment and tinker with your bows I believe you are better off with either a served "y" or a floating yoke. People that are keeping the stock strings may want to get the "y" served on the stock rigging. Also, while on the topic, I'd like to note how very sensitive this bow is to string weight. This is something to consider for hunters in particular. With the stock strings I put cat whisker silencers on the ends of each serving and in the normal mass. The bow dropped 8 to 10 fps!! I was able to get that drop significantly less by reducing the number of speed nocks to one per side and placing the silencers on the ends of the servings. This netted a 4fps loss but did help quiet the bow. The point is if you are going to put silencers on the string without compensating for the added weight expect dramatic speed losses. I've never personally seen a bow this sensitive to string weight. In the pictures you ca see that I came to the same conclusion Bowtech did...leave the silencers off the string or you'll suffer some speed loss.
Now to tuning. Probably the single most important observation I can pass on to my fellow AT'rs is how very dramatic small adjustments make on this bow. As far as the split yokes go 1/2 turn adjustments at a time make a huge impact on tuning results so be carefull and always keep the big picture (ATA and specs) in mind while twisting. I would also like to note that I m a perfectionist when it comes to tuning and I see no reason why any of these bows shouldn't tune dead down center if you know how to yoke tune. I always tune my bows so that all three major tuning methods (paper, walk back, braodhead) complement one another. If I have to compromise one tuning method to get another in then I usually know my arrow spine is off which brings me to setup.
Im using GT .340 spine arrows cut short (26.5") with a 100 grain tip. This arrow is approximately 381 grains. The bow is set at 67lbs with a 28" draw. I did chrono this setup with an IBO weight arrow at around (average) 328fps with a loaded string (mine) which puts it about 1 or 2 fps faster than the IBO rating. 
The first picture that relates to tuning shows what I believe is the best starting point for pre-angle for the split yoke/cam combo. This picture shows an arrow held flat against the upper cam like most tuners do for Mathew's idler lean placement. I start by placing the arrow rest exactly at center shot then work the cam angles into that position. I've found that the top cam needs to start top left so that the arrow held against it's left side meets the string just below my peep sight ( about 6.25" above center of nocking point). I hope you all can see what I'm getting at in the picture. Once this is set and I have both cams set at the same angle and my ATA and other specs are in as well including a good initial timing and synchronizing of the cams I begin with bare shafts through paper at about 5 yards. The reason I do this is because it shows very clear and immediate results for each change you make. Shoot and see what's happening and take care of the easy nock high or low adjusment first. With my setup a tail right tear was lessened by a half twist in each right yoke. The key is to use only 1/2 twists at a time and you'll be amazed at how much of a difference these small adjustments make and you'll see if the tear is getting smaller or larger then move again. If your trying to keep your timing exact once you see where you have to go with your static cam angle you can twist 1/2 in one side then if more is needed twist 1/2 out of the other thus moving the cam angle but keeping the overall cable length the same. You will soon reach a point where your tail right becomes a tail left (within three or four half twists in each of my cases) or vice versa depending on your situation. Now just note which position had the shortest tear and leave it in that position. Now all you have to do is make very very very slight adjustments to your rest to get perfect holes. I moved my rest maybe 1/64" or less and it took out the remaining 1/4" right tear. If it's a crappy day you can move back to 7 yards like I did and really fine tune it. The fourth picture is of paper tuning results at 7 yards in my garage. I've found if you can get bare shafts and fletched arrows to shoot perfect holes from 9 ft to 7 yards you will rarely have to move anything more than a very small fraction of an inch for any of the other tuning methods.
Now it's time to go outside. The fifth picture shows the results of my bare shaft and walkback tuning. When I was only bare shaft tuning the bare shaft was flying so straight I was nock hitting with the bare shaft!! I did make a very very small bump tho the right to achieve this (so small it was hardly noticeable). The walkback tuning fell straight in line with no adjustment at all after I bare shaft tuned at 20 yards with the small adjustment noted. Some people may get picky and tell me I needed another bump back to the left but plaes note that a) all these arrows are within 3/4" vertically back to 40 yards and thats great shooting for me so I wasn't ready to adjust based on that b) there was a steady wind in the direction of the slant and c) I saw how straght the bare shafts were flying. I decided to check with 50 yard fixed blade braodhead tuning and those results are in the next picture. Needless to say I was very pleased. Impact points were exactly the same at fifty yards and I have since checked at 60 with the same results. The only adjusment I made after paper tuning was probably a less than 1/64" bump right.
The last shot is my favorite and in my opinion proof that Bowtech is on to something special this year. Unless you tune alot of bows you probably will never know how rare this shot is. It's like a Unicorn or a five leaf clover...many of us have heard of it but never actually seen it. I'ts incredible that you can tune a bow this well adn have everything line up this well. The nock point is almost level with the berger holes; the arrow is lined up straight down the center lining up with the stabalizer and amazingly the sight pins are in perfect alignment with the arrow. I can tell you from experience that there are very very few bows that will do this and shoot this well to boot. 
Last two short comments. When drawing the bow there is no noticeable "twist" in your hand when the cables begin to take weight like alot of modern bows. I have never slapped my arm with this 6" brace bow yet and I've shot alot outside with a heavy coat on.
THE END


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## baldyhunter

Last two pics. The braodhead tuning pic shows the left two arrows sporting 100 grain WASP Boss SST's.


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## baldyhunter

notice no fletchings on the top arrow to the right on the walkback tuning pic. Bare shafts flew perfect at 20 yards.


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## geekster

gREAT iNFO


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## backstrap steve

Well you better wear a helmet and kevlar vest. Haha. Just messin with you man. That's a very nice rig and you have it driving tacks. Good luck with it this year. Looks like a blood spilling machine!


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## frankchugga

excellent work and nice rig.


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## EricO

I enjoyed reading that. Thank you very much.


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## RColeman

Very nice read! I hope to pic mine up either today or Friday if it comes in. I might PM you with some questions when the time comes if that alright?


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## up_close

> People that are keeping the stock strings may want to get the "y" served on the stock rigging.


Any chance you could show a pic of were you served it?
Great info.:thumbs_up
Thanks,
Keith


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## baldyhunter

Here is a pic of where I served the "y". Unfortunately you can't see it because it's hidden under the cat whiskers. The idea is to seperate the main section of the cable and the legs that form the "y" where they split.


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## MNDan

Very nice writeup! I would recommend a few more paragraphs and white space, though - it's hard to read as one huge blob of text.

thanks!
dan


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## baldyhunter

if you click for a larger version of the pic you can see the very top an bottom of the serving. Hope that helps you. It's probably not worth worrying about if your a set it and don't think about it again guy...but if you find yourself tuning and tinkering alot I'd definately recommond it.


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## up_close

baldyhunter said:


> Here is a pic of where I served the "y". Unfortunately you can't see it because it's hidden under the cat whiskers. The idea is to seperate the main section of the cable and the legs that form the "y" where they split.


So it's only like 1/2" long.
Thanks


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## baldyhunter

MNDan said:


> Very nice writeup! I would recommend a few more paragraphs and white space, though - it's hard to read as one huge blob of text.
> 
> thanks!
> dan


Good suggestion.
Thanks
Ken


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## baldyhunter

I believe mine are about 1.5 to 2" long. I'll double check when I hit the garage.


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## greybrd

Thanks for the excellent write-up, great info for when I get mine.


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## baldyhunter

The "y" servings on mine are exactly 1.25" long on each cable.


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## dbowhunter

*Perfect!!!!*

Great review from a very knowledgeable guy. The only thing wrong is that he got his Destroyer before me!:wink:


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## Viper69

They are a nice lookin bow. Too bad my dealer doesnt carry Bowtech anymore or I may have tried one for myself.


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## cgchris99

Great review and great information


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## bowtechcaptain

Great Post.. Makes waiting for mine 340 to show up even worse.. 

What bow press you using if you dont mind me asking???


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## IL 88

Great write up brother :thumbs_up

I enjoy actually reading some useful information on here every now and then


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## hkbwpro111

*nice*

nice write up!


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## bowtechcaptain

Why is it that your flex cable Guard isn't broken? 

You sound like someone that knows our stuff...


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## baldyhunter

bowtechcaptain said:


> Why is it that your flex cable Guard isn't broken?
> 
> You sound like someone that knows our stuff...


That's funny!!
I just read a couple of those threads before I wrote this which actually prompted me to do it. People forget that usually when we hear something on this sight it's because something happened and people are upset (or at least that's what sticks in our minds). I thought I'd write a little about my experience with the bow and maybe share a little of the knowledge I've gained. We need more positive info out there.


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## baldyhunter

bowtechcaptain said:


> Great Post.. Makes waiting for mine 340 to show up even worse..
> 
> What bow press you using if you dont mind me asking???


I'm using the new Toad Press that's for sale here in the cassifieds. It is a limb tip press and works like a charm. The tip holders are at a 90 degree angle and really cup the pillow blocks very securely. Plus Jason (the maker) is a great guy to deal with.


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## baldyhunter

dbowhunter said:


> Great review from a very knowledgeable guy. The only thing wrong is that he got his Destroyer before me!:wink:


WOW! how did that happen! Trust me your going to love this thing when you get it. I'm going to try to slay a Doe with it this weekend or next in Ohio. The way it's throwing fixed blade broadheads (and fast!!!) I think if I see one it's going to be in trouble. Let me know how you like yours.
Ken


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## baldyhunter

RColeman said:


> Very nice read! I hope to pic mine up either today or Friday if it comes in. I might PM you with some questions when the time comes if that alright?


 That would be fine and I'll help if I can. I've been working crazy hours though so if you don't get a quick reply be patient with me.
Ken


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## baldyhunter

greybrd said:


> Thanks for the excellent write-up, great info for when I get mine.


let us know what you think when it comes. I think you'll be pleased. Did you order a 350 or 340??


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## Indian Outlaw

Thanks for the info. Good to know the innovations, (flex guard mainly I suppose), are helping to make a very tuneable bow.


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## baldyhunter

Indian Outlaw said:


> Thanks for the info. Good to know the innovations, (flex guard mainly I suppose), are helping to make a very tuneable bow.


Very true
I believe that the FLX guard is responsible for the tuneability of the bow. I've actually had alot more arm slap from 7" brace bows as well and I think that is aslo a product of the FLX. Usually with alot of modern bows you can feel the bow twist in your grip as the cables take tension at the end of the cycle. This is caused by the cables pulling on the cams hard and torquing the riser. Upon release the bow swings back in a right to left fasion as the tension is released (right hand bow). This has as much to do with arm slap as brace height does and why many people can shoot shoot throughs with cables rideing ridiculously close to their arm with no slap. It also makes the arrow come out of the bow alot straighter (assuming correct spine) so you don't have to have your rest and sight in strange positions to counter the riser torque.


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## baldyhunter

One thing also I see I didn't add is that this bow is tuned with all 3 tuning methods with no compromise at all on any single one. After tuning outside I went in the garage and reshot through paper and they are still perfect holes (even today two weeks later and with hundreds of shots after this tuning session). Just not many bows out their that can even do this and line up right down the center.


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## Poorguy

Very, very nice. :thumbs_up


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## baldyhunter

found one more picture that shows the looks of the strings better.


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## crockett

nice write up! great info. can't wait too get one!


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## Grant-KS

Great review, thanks! Just wish I would have waited a year to drop $800 on a new bow. Have a practically new '09 Sentinel that still isn't set up right. LOL


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## baldyhunter

Grant-KS said:


> Great review, thanks! Just wish I would have waited a year to drop $800 on a new bow. Have a practically new '09 Sentinel that still isn't set up right. LOL


I know what you mean. I had to wait a couple of years myself and I feel now like I lucked into a good year to buy new.


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## walks with a gi

Great review and work up of your bow with the custom strings! Still have your Admiral?


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## baldyhunter

walks with a gi said:


> Great review and work up of your bow with the custom strings! Still have your Admiral?


Actually I had the Air Raid last year and was thinking about developing it into a shoot through (with a little of your great advice). After the initial look I came out with an estimate of about 250 to 300$ and alot of work for a custom four roller shoot through setup! It was actually a little cheaper and alot less work for me just to sell it and buy a Destroyer. The Air Raid was a good bow but wow did it torque the riser at the draw...had alot of twist when the cables took the strings tension...tuned way, way inside...and just plane boggled the mind when I looked at the way things lined up after a good (I actually had it tuned very well) tuning. The difference between that and the Destroyer is really very dramatic.


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## baldyhunter

This rig is heading out to the woods this evening to fill my last doe tag. 18 expected for high and breezy. I just got done double checking everything at my outdoor range (cold...cold...cold) and it's ready to go. Hope I'm as ready...


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## bow duke ny

That is the best review I have every read on a bow. WOW . Thanks for taking the time and writing that.:darkbeer:


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## baldyhunter

bow duke ny said:


> That is the best review I have every read on a bow. WOW . Thanks for taking the time and writing that.:darkbeer:


No problem. I'm glad people are enjoying it. As I play with different bows locally I may write a few more this year. 
Ken


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## geekster

Baldyhunter great job on sharing your knowledge with the destroyers with us. The ability to really fine tune these bows are amazing. To be able to tweak them for zero cam lean and perfect cam alignment is a big plus in my book. Some may disagree but I believe bowtech is on to somthing with the overdrive binary system.


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## zwalls

geekster said:


> Baldyhunter great job on sharing your knowledge with the destroyers with us. The ability to really fine tune these bows are amazing. To be able to tweak them for zero cam lean and perfect cam alignment is a big plus in my book. Some may disagree but I believe bowtech is on to somthing with the overdrive binary system.


agreed :thumb:
I have this thread saved and as soon as I finish hunting after Feb 15th I'm going to do some super tuning on my 340!!

thanks :thumbs_up


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## baldyhunter

geekster said:


> Baldyhunter great job on sharing your knowledge with the destroyers with us. The ability to really fine tune these bows are amazing. To be able to tweak them for zero cam lean and perfect cam alignment is a big plus in my book. Some may disagree but I believe bowtech is on to somthing with the overdrive binary system.


I agree...Bowtech is onto something this year. I can't wait for a longer ATA iteration of this tech next year. Just for clarification though, the cams do swing left to right in a slight arch while drawing the bow but:
a: it is a lot less than on most bows due to the FLX
b: you control the precise position of the arch
which makes this bow fantastically tunable but "zero cam lean" may be a stretch. I'd say as well that it's nice to be able to control the cam angle on both cams with this system which is a huge advantage as far as tunability is concerned. The future is looking very bright at Bowtech.


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## Drifter0678

Well I'm getting my Bonus check tomorrow, so I'll have my Destroyer next week!!! I can't wait to try this baby!!!:wink: Great write up BTY.... :darkbeer:


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## RColeman

Finally got the call yesterday that my 350 is waiting for me to pick up! About 2 weeks late but at least its here! I will post some info as I tune mine as well.


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## baldyhunter

Drifter0678 said:


> Well I'm getting my Bonus check tomorrow, so I'll have my Destroyer next week!!! I can't wait to try this baby!!!:wink: Great write up BTY.... :darkbeer:





RColeman said:


> Finally got the call yesterday that my 350 is waiting for me to pick up! About 2 weeks late but at least its here! I will post some info as I tune mine as well.


I think you guys are going to be happy. I've shot several new bows this year and it's just a great year to buy any new bow. I'm heading out Saturday morning for the last weekend of Ohio Deer Season and am expecting good things. If this bow kills deer as well as it kills targets I should have my first meat with it.


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## davehc130




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## blandre

*destroyer owner*

Just got the destroyer 350 and the only problem i am having with it is i cannot get my drop away rest to clear quick enough its a QAD ultra rest i have tried the other launcher it comes with and moved the release string farther down on the bus cable all the timing marks line up. I have shot it through paper initially had a slight right tear we got rid of that and still making contact with the rest. we tried a walk back and it was perfect. the the bowshop tried everything they knew to try and still no luck. The bow is still shooting awesome super quiet, fast and overall a fun bow to shoot I turned it up from about 62 to 70 lbs and really could feel no difference the draw is so smooth.im gonna take this write up into the bow shop and see if they can do about the same thing.


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## blandre

*destroyer owner*

got to love those bonus checks... I dont regret one penny i spent on it


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## baldyhunter

blandre I shot you a pm


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## Drifter0678

blandre said:


> got to love those bonus checks... I dont regret one penny i spent on it


Yeah, I've spent plenty in the past week and a half out of my bonus on

Destroyer 350
Carter Chocolate Addiction
Carter Evolution+mini
Easton LightSpeed 3D's 340's
Sling Braids for my SWAT, D350 and wifes Razors edge
Nikon Archers Choice, gift for Uncle (LOVE MINE, works great)
Axcel Dove Tail (ON BACK ORDER) .10 5 pin sights 
QAD utra rest pro
Torqueless side plates for my Swat and D350

The rest is going to my 92 Cummins W250, Line X'ing the whole dang thang... No more worring about scratches or dings


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## baldyhunter

Drifter0678 said:


> Yeah, I've spent plenty in the past week and a half out of my bonus on
> 
> Destroyer 350
> Carter Chocolate Addiction
> Carter Evolution+mini
> Easton LightSpeed 3D's 340's
> Sling Braids for my SWAT, D350 and wifes Razors edge
> Nikon Archers Choice, gift for Uncle (LOVE MINE, works great)
> Axcel Dove Tail (ON BACK ORDER) .10 5 pin sights
> QAD utra rest pro
> Torqueless side plates for my Swat and D350
> 
> The rest is going to my 92 Cummins W250, Line X'ing the whole dang thang... No more worring about scratches or dings


Sounds like someone has been having some fun. My wife'd be having me spend it on some house bull crap.


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## Drifter0678

Well I live out in the boonie's, so the wait for the Brown truck has been killing me... :tongue:


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## Gerhard

WOW.

Awesome info and some stunning photos of your bow.

I cant wait to get mine and start my own tuning fun...


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## baldyhunter

If you think about it let me know how you like your Torqueless side plates when all is done. There's really not much to dislike about this bow.


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## baldyhunter

Gerhard said:


> WOW.
> 
> Awesome info and some stunning photos of your bow.
> 
> I cant wait to get mine and start my own tuning fun...


Thanks,
I think you'll like it when you get it. This thing makes some serious KE for Big Game and you shouldn't have any trouble getting it to tune straight down the center of the riser.
Ken


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## Drifter0678

baldyhunter said:


> If you think about it let me know how you like your Torqueless side plates when all is done. There's really not much to dislike about this bow.


Okay will do, I got the Chili pepper side plates for Black Ops D350 and the Colorado green plates (Same green colored side plates with the chili pepper in picture on their web site for the Destrpyer bows) for my SE SWAT, I think the Green Plates are actually at the post office... I didn't order the chili pepper until I made sure I was going to get the black ops last Friday.:wink:


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## AllenRead

baldyhunter said:


> ...I would also like to note that I m a perfectionist when it comes to tuning and I see no reason why any of these bows shouldn't tune dead down center if you know how to yoke tune...



Excellent write up on the tuning. Thanks for taking the time to share with us. :thumbs_up

I've never heard of yoke tuning before. Can you tell us about this?


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## baldyhunter

AllenRead said:


> Excellent write up on the tuning. Thanks for taking the time to share with us. :thumbs_up
> 
> I've never heard of yoke tuning before. Can you tell us about this?


Yoke tuning is method of tuning by which you leave the rest in position (right down the center of the riser) and minipulate the yokes to induce the desired cam lean to get straight arrow flight. The most common type of Yoke tuning is done by shooting at a target which you can learn more about in the tuning section. I've developed my own version which is a mixture of bare shaft paper tuning and yoke tuning which allows me to yoke tune a bow very precicely in my 24 foot garage. I actually describe it fairly well in the middle section of the first post. I basically leave the rest in the center of the riser and adjust the cam lean by way of twisting the yokes. Then shoot a bare shaft (not fletched because you don't want correction...you want a true picture of how the arrow is leaving the bow) through paper to check progress. I keep going untill I am throwing arrows as straight as possible.
Hope this helps.
Ken


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## wtwilli

*Destroyer tuning*

Very interesting Thread.Just got my 350 last week in short it's a pain to tune,my shop had to buy a new press to use for destroyers.You mentioned using a free floating yoke.I also have a Hoyt alfa max ,recently replaced string and it tune easily .If I replace string and go with a split yoke, will cam tuning not be an issue. Thanks john willi


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## cgchris99

wtwilli said:


> Very interesting Thread.Just got my 350 last week in short it's a pain to tune,my shop had to buy a new press to use for destroyers.You mentioned using a free floating yoke.I also have a Hoyt alfa max ,recently replaced string and it tune easily .If I replace string and go with a split yoke, will cam tuning not be an issue. Thanks john willi


We've sold a bunch of destroyers already and found them extremely easy to papertune.


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## baldyhunter

wtwilli said:


> Very interesting Thread.Just got my 350 last week in short it's a pain to tune,my shop had to buy a new press to use for destroyers.You mentioned using a free floating yoke.I also have a Hoyt alfa max ,recently replaced string and it tune easily .If I replace string and go with a split yoke, will cam tuning not be an issue. Thanks john willi


Cam tuning will still be an issue and with these bows it is very important. I suggested a floating yoke or serving the stock one's simply because it separates the legs in the cable from the main strand bundle and helps making adjustments stick and stay better. Setting the pre-angle on the cams on these bows is critical and is the primary determining factor of where the bow tunes (center shot). Whether you serve the "y" or use a floating yoke someone will have to twist or untwist the legs in the "y" in order to get this bow to tune where it should.
Ken


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## baldyhunter

wtwilli said:


> Very interesting Thread.Just got my 350 last week in short it's a pain to tune,my shop had to buy a new press to use for destroyers.You mentioned using a free floating yoke.I also have a Hoyt alfa max ,recently replaced string and it tune easily .If I replace string and go with a split yoke, will cam tuning not be an issue. Thanks john willi


If it's that difficult to tune I'd be looking into fletching contact issues as well.


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## amarchery

*Man*

I have problems following along sometimes but your logic is there. And your directions are simple and precise.

Very good job with this direction and review. I also think the Destroyer is a special bow. Should be bow of the year, we will see.

Did you have ANY effects from the cat whiskers on the cables that you could tell. Did it take care of the VERY FAINT hum from the flex guard? Not as noticable on the 350 as the 340, but did it.

Again, thanks and go right a book. Your detail and explanation is top notch.


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## baldyhunter

amarchery said:


> I have problems following along sometimes but your logic is there. And your directions are simple and precise.
> 
> Very good job with this direction and review. I also think the Destroyer is a special bow. Should be bow of the year, we will see.
> 
> Did you have ANY effects from the cat whiskers on the cables that you could tell. Did it take care of the VERY FAINT hum from the flex guard? Not as noticable on the 350 as the 340, but did it.
> 
> Again, thanks and go right a book. Your detail and explanation is top notch.


Thanks for the compliments.

I have a hard time commenting on your question (though I wish I could help you more)for two reasons.
1) I never grip the bow so what are minor vibrations to some go completely unnoticed by me. I have a wrist sling and the bow just drops in my hand after the shot.
2) I've always had a hard time evaluating the sound level of the bows I'm shooting. I don't know why but every bow I have ever had sounds equally loud to me. I had a PSE Avenger about 5 or 6 years ago and everyone kept telling me it was the quietest bow they have ever heard...I kept trying to make it quieter cause to me it was LOUD! The only way I can evaluate how loud a bow is is if someone else is shooting it. And unfortunately I'm the only one that has that has shot it since I put the new strings on.

All that being said it did seem slightly but noticeably better to me. On the strings they definately made a difference. Remove all but one speed nock on each side and put the silencers at the very end of the servings. That made a big difference and I may do that for next hunting season, but like I said in the original post if you don't take speed nocks off and just add the silencers be prepared to take a pretty good speed hit.


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## HUNTNMT

*Thanks*

Just wanted to say thanks for the awesome write up you did here. I used your article as a guide today when I tuned my new D350 and when I was done the bareshaft was in the group out to 30 yards. I would have never believed it with a "speed bow". I do have one question for you. Do you like the stock grip or are you using something else? I don't mind the profile of the grip but the square edges are hard to deal with for me. Any suggetions??


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## baldyhunter

HUNTNMT said:


> Just wanted to say thanks for the awesome write up you did here. I used your article as a guide today when I tuned my new D350 and when I was done the bareshaft was in the group out to 30 yards. I would have never believed it with a "speed bow". I do have one question for you. Do you like the stock grip or are you using something else? I don't mind the profile of the grip but the square edges are hard to deal with for me. Any suggetions??


Man, if you can bare shaft tune at thirty yards you have a very consistent grip! But I know what your talking about. I'm in your boat exactly, I can grip this bow very consistently...but for some reason I don't feel like I'm gripping it consistently.

The one aftermarket grip I've tried (and love) was a medium wrist, competition nose grip from Torqueless. It was an amazing grip for my Air Raid. I'm buttering my wife up now to get one. One word of warning though, the lower part of the torqueless grips do have very "square" edges but become more round towards the top. I liked it because it felt like you could place that hard lower edge in the same place every time and really makes you feel consistent.
Ken


----------



## amarchery

*Wow!*



baldyhunter said:


> Thanks for the compliments.
> 
> I have a hard time commenting on your question (though I wish I could help you more)for two reasons.
> 1) I never grip the bow so what are minor vibrations to some go completely unnoticed by me. I have a wrist sling and the bow just drops in my hand after the shot.
> 2) I've always had a hard time evaluating the sound level of the bows I'm shooting. I don't know why but every bow I have ever had sounds equally loud to me. I had a PSE Avenger about 5 or 6 years ago and everyone kept telling me it was the quietest bow they have ever heard...I kept trying to make it quieter cause to me it was LOUD! The only way I can evaluate how loud a bow is is if someone else is shooting it. And unfortunately I'm the only one that has that has shot it since I put the new strings on.
> 
> All that being said it did seem slightly but noticeably better to me. On the strings they definately made a difference. Remove all but one speed nock on each side and put the silencers at the very end of the servings. That made a big difference and I may do that for next hunting season, but like I said in the original post if you don't take speed nocks off and just add the silencers be prepared to take a pretty good speed hit.


So what you are saying is I can pay attention to your tuning info but NEVER use you for the "Quietest Bow Thread" information? 

I can fortunately and hopefully continue to be able to narrow noise down and pick it up whether it is a deep noise or a higher noise. I can definately tell a loud bow from a quiet one. Different pitches, high and low, are noticed more by different folks. Odd how that is.

To me the BowTech Admiral is one of the quietest bows out of the box I have ever seen or heard. Diamond IceMan is good also.

Again, thanks for the information. I have tuned several of these Destroyer bows. Would you care to PM me your center shot measurement from the riser to the center of the arrow. I usually nock the arrow in the rest, place an arrow running parallel to against the inside of the riser, and set it that way. It is usually extremely close.

Let me know what you got on your setting. And for cam and yoke tuning. You can drastically improve tuning and speed with that one adjustment.


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## baldyhunter

amarchery said:


> So what you are saying is I can pay attention to your tuning info but NEVER use you for the "Quietest Bow Thread" information?
> 
> I can fortunately and hopefully continue to be able to narrow noise down and pick it up whether it is a deep noise or a higher noise. I can definately tell a loud bow from a quiet one. Different pitches, high and low, are noticed more by different folks. Odd how that is.
> 
> To me the BowTech Admiral is one of the quietest bows out of the box I have ever seen or heard. Diamond IceMan is good also.
> 
> Again, thanks for the information. I have tuned several of these Destroyer bows. Would you care to PM me your center shot measurement from the riser to the center of the arrow. I usually nock the arrow in the rest, place an arrow running parallel to against the inside of the riser, and set it that way. It is usually extremely close.
> 
> Let me know what you got on your setting. And for cam and yoke tuning. You can drastically improve tuning and speed with that one adjustment.


Yes, Very true. Do not listen to me when it comes to how quiet a bow is !! LOL

PM'd you


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## baldyhunter

For anyone interested I tried an interesting experiment tonight. I finished up a cheap 8125 string for my destroyer and was surprised by the results. First the disclaimer:

I generally don't like 8125 as a material for several reasons. It generally stretches more than 452X especially in the heat. This is of particular concern if you are shooting close to IBO weight arrows. I've witnessed personally bows gaining 1.5 to 2 lbs in one afternoon when left inside a hot car. Suddenly you can go from IBO weight arrows to 10 grains under. 8125 is also more prone to change its velocity due to temperature changes. If you go from a cold spring day (40 around here) and sight your bow in...two days later a warm front comes through and its 70 degrees...expect to have to reset all your pin gaps. This material also requires more adjustments through the year. When I'm using it I always make pencil marks above and below the limbs and scribe along the cams. Any stretch (which I check for often) can be notice immediately. Even if you are using very well made 8125 strings you can expect to have to twist them up at least a couple of times during the year to maintain your preferred timing position. Lastly, all 8125 strings are not created equally. It takes a lot more time and effort to build "good" 8125 strings. They have to be pre-stretched well to get a good consistent string that is stabile and holds its length. Last few notes: it is generaly louder, causes more vibration, and may get you in trouble with bowtech if it causes damage to your bow. I just wouldn't recommend it for most applications (especially if they aren't well made) and so I tucked this info into my tuning thread for fear of noobs running out and buying 8125 strings if it was listed in the main forum.

All this being said I wanted to try one because I thought as sensitive as this string is to weight it might take kindly to a lighter string material. So I made one and stretched it for about 24 hours, served it with 2X serving and got it up and running tonight. The results were pretty impressive IMO. Here is my setup. 
-Mods set in 28" position
-weight set at 67lbs
-shooting IBO weight arrows (335 grains)
-avg. speed 332 fps!!
Granted this is not AMO draw. I never actually took the time to measure mine and I do have it timed close to the rear dots because it seems a little more efficient there. But also note that I was using a heavier peep sight than usual and obviously most manufactures are going 1/4" to 3/8" long now.

Anyway, according to this speed calculator
http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/tools.php
My bow is now about 357 fps IBO with ten grains added to the string (peep and d-loop: I actually think I have more weight added to the string than that). I'm not using a "tuner chrony" either. I've included some pictures but forgot to get a pic of me weighing the arrow...trust me it's 335 grains exactly. The chrony pic is a little higher than my average over a 7 shot string (throw out the highest and lowest avg. rest). I ended up with the speed nocks in the same locations and number as the 452X stockers. I did notice more vibration in the bow so I may play around with this string for 3-D but plan on going back to the 452X string for hunting. 

Take it all for what it's worth but I thought some people might find the results interesting.
Ken


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## BowButla

Well done, You have definatly done your homework and probably can now be considered the "Destroyer Expert Tuner". Thanks for all the effort, this will save me countless hours getting mine set up if it ever gets here (ordered 2 months ago).


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## baldyhunter

I may start selling 8125 strings for this bow. To start they'll be factory colors to match the cables so all someone would have to purchase would be the string for the performance boost. They'll all be made through a longer production process and be pre-stretched to get a stable 8125 string. Halo servings to boot. Right now I'm just trying to guage interest in the project. 

PM me if interested. I'd rather sell to experienced archers who understand the trade off for 8125 strings, but I can promise these'll be some of the best made.
Ken


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## Smashmouth33

Great info, I will be ordering one this month!


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## baldyhunter

Smashmouth33 said:


> Great info, I will be ordering one this month!


Glad to hear it and welcome to AT. your in for an awesome ride with a lot of great here on this sight. When you get your bow let us know what you think and if you need any help tuning it.
Ken


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## b.c archer

do you need a press to tune the yokes or can it be done at the range,if so could you explain how, there is no shop withing 70miles of me so iam on my own.:beer:


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## baldyhunter

unfortunately, you need a press to tune the bow using the yokes. If not It's probably going to tune quite a bit inside toward the riser. There have also been quite a few shooting nock high or low to an extreme which I'd adjust out using the limb bolts. But most of them are coming from the factory needing about one twist in the left side yoke and one twist out of the right side to tune down the middle (only approximate).


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## b.c archer

what kind of press are you using on the destroyer


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## rigginuts

How do you shoot a 26.5" arrow with a 28" draw ?


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## steelhead777

I sure like the looks of the Destroyer...mean and proud looking rig!!!


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## baldyhunter

rigginuts said:


> How do you shoot a 26.5" arrow with a 28" draw ?


I can't go any shorter. The tip of the arrow is about 3/8" from the rest at full draw on a drop-zone and about even on a limb driver. With certain rests I've seen people actually go close to two inches under their draw length for arrows.


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## BowtechKid07

Okay im a rookie and totaly lost. I Just bought my d350 from Toad400. What are the yokes? Does all this tuning need to be done to prevent it from breaking or is it just so it shoots better?


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## baldyhunter

BowtechKid07 said:


> Okay im a rookie and totaly lost. I Just bought my d350 from Toad400. What are the yokes? Does all this tuning need to be done to prevent it from breaking or is it just so it shoots better?


You bought your bow from a great guy. Same place I purchased mine from. He has them shooting pretty straight before they leave his shop so you should be good to go. It has nothing to do with them breaking...just makes them shoot better but yours is already probably throwing them arrows pretty straight. The yokes are the section of cable attached to the ends of the axles on each limb tip. Congrats on the new bow and on finding a great place to buy it from.
Ken


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## BowtechKid07

Thanks for the quick reply. I cant wait to get it.


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## TozerBGood

*Ha! Ha! Not BaldyHunter's Editor!*

I took BaldyHunter's write-up and put in into a word doc that's a little easier to follow. If you have MS Office, you can download my edited version of BaldyHunter's write-up here. It's basically the same write-up, only I broke it up into paragraphs, and put the pics in the relevant locations. (No I'm not BaldyHunter's editor! I just thought it was an outstanding thread, and worth saving). 

Just hope that it helps someone. 

Thanks for posting this BaldyHunter. Top notch and a class act IMO! It's definitely going into my keeper files.


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## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> I took BaldyHunter's write-up and put in into a word doc that's a little easier to follow. If you have MS Office, you can download my edited version of BaldyHunter's write-up here. It's basically the same write-up, only I broke it up into paragraphs, and put the pics in the relevant locations. (No I'm not BaldyHunter's editor! I just thought it was an outstanding thread, and worth saving).
> 
> Just hope that it helps someone.
> 
> Thanks for posting this BaldyHunter. Top notch and a class act IMO! It's definitely going into my keeper files.


Thank you TozerBgood. You've made it much easier for people to follow!
Ken


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## D'Rec

Just got done talking with Ken today. Took my bow to the local shop and we tuned it at 15/16 center with a laser shooting bullet holes at 5 yds bare shaft. I mean absolute bullet holes. When I go to the shop in a couple of days I will post some pictures. It shot a better hole at 5yds than 3yds. I may have missed it in ken's review but know one said how easy it would be. Set the rest shot it a couple of times and make the twist. It took me 2 twist to set the cam angle and 2 more to get the tear fixed. Dont forget to serve the base of the yoke 2 inches. Thanks Ken I will give a follow up on the walk back tune but I dont see how it could not be perfect.


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## DrSveegy

*Thanks!*



TozerBGood said:


> I took BaldyHunter's write-up and put in into a word doc that's a little easier to follow. If you have MS Office, you can download my edited version of BaldyHunter's write-up here. It's basically the same write-up, only I broke it up into paragraphs, and put the pics in the relevant locations. (No I'm not BaldyHunter's editor! I just thought it was an outstanding thread, and worth saving).
> 
> Just hope that it helps someone.
> 
> Thanks for posting this BaldyHunter. Top notch and a class act IMO! It's definitely going into my keeper files.


Thank you! I was going blind trying to read the original post. Paragraphs: what a concept!


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## D'Rec

make sure you set the cam lean before doing anything. you do this by holding a arrow against the left side of the top cam flush and the arrow should just touch the string above you serving under your peep. make sure you shoot several arrows into the paper prior to making adjustments. I did this and found out that I wasnt able to shoot a consistent tear because of my form so had to make some adjustments there also. Good luck man


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## D'Rec

Just tuned mine tonight following everything in the article. it went awesome had to serve the yoke first and then put 2 twist in the cam to get the right lean. The picture may not be clear but the arrow is only touching the string just above the serving and below the peep from the left side of the top cam. I had to put 2 twist in mine and the rest is set at 15/16 which 7/8's is where we started. I am shooting bullet holes at 7-5 yds from the paper. pure bullet holes and the walk back to tune was dead on which I knew it would be shooting that good through paper.


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## Jhorne

I don't believe it's necessasary to serve the yolks. I didn't mine and I have 1,000 or so shots through mine with no change. I just believe if it was necessary Bowtech would have served them.


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## D'Rec

I agree 100% the bowtech rep we talked to said he thought they were going to start but the last 4 bows that were ordered all came the same way as mine. Who knows, glad to hear yours is not moving that hopefully means there is no way mine will


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## TozerBGood

I didn't serve the yoke at first before twisting, and was sorry that I didn't. I ended up serving it to keep the split at same place on string.it kept moving on me before serving it (screwing everything up). If you don't serve them, then you have to shoot in each little change (makes more work). But then, I'm only a Supervisor which is the other half of the problem. :darkbeer:


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## baldyhunter

Thanks D'rec for letting us know how it went. I'm happy to here Bowtech is considering that change. I think that would be a great improvemnent. Is it necessary....maybe not but it makes the job of tuning so much easier and I know on mine the changes stuck solid without a lot of shoot in with that "y" served.
Ken


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## enewman

baldyhunter said:


> Thanks D'rec for letting us know how it went. I'm happy to here Bowtech is considering that change. I think that would be a great improvemnent. Is it necessary....maybe not but it makes the job of tuning so much easier and I know on mine the changes stuck solid without a lot of shoot in with that "y" served.
> Ken


can you post a picture of the serving at the yoke so I can make sure I'm going to do it correctly.


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## TozerBGood

enewman said:


> can you post a picture of the serving at the yoke so I can make sure I'm going to do it correctly.


Did you see post #10 ?


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## enewman

yes but I cannot tell by that picture


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## TozerBGood

enewman said:


> yes but I cannot tell by that picture


Go to THIS URL and Zoom in to about 200% and look at the serving under the cat whiskers. I have my serving a little closer to the CAM than BaldyHunter, but not my much. Do at same place on each end.


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## Pizonarcher

*Left tear*

I am getting a left tear, about 1/2" to 3/4. so should I twist (up) the left side of yokes 1/2 at a time?.


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## enewman

TozerBGood said:


> Go to THIS URL and Zoom in to about 200% and look at the serving under the cat whiskers. I have my serving a little closer to the CAM than BaldyHunter, but not my much. Do at same place on each end.


thanks I think I got it. It should be easy to see what to do when my bow arrives. the waiting is killing me.


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## baldyhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> I am getting a left tear, about 1/2" to 3/4. so should I twist (up) the left side of yokes 1/2 at a time?.


I assume that tear is happening while the rest is at 7/8" or close centershot right? If that's the case yes you'll want to start with 1/2 twist in the left yoke....then next take 1/2 twist out of the right yoke...repeat. This way you will be altering the cable lengths as little as possible while changing the cam angle. Once you get close (I'm guessing about a twist and a half in the left yoke and a twist and a half out of the right yoke based on what a lot of them have been but your really better off going slowly with small adjustments at a time) recheck your synchronization and timing. If you don't serve the base of the "y" take your time...shoot each adjustment in with several shots and recheck periodically. It can be done with well shot in cables but based on some (mine and others) experience now I'd highly recommend serving the base of the "y"
Ken


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## Pizonarcher

Thanks for the prompt reply.
Here is more info on my setup:
I did serve the yokes about a month ago & been shooting it that long, cables seem the be settled down, they did stretch some. I have a fall away (Arc)set on with 7/8 center shot, Did the walk back tune with good results The ata is exactly the same on both sides. I have moved the rest to right 1/2 " & made no difference in the 3/4 left tear, using GT 22 series arrows @ 60# so they are stiff which would give a right tear but I'm getting a left. .
I noticed on the cams, on the left side there are 2 little white etched timing marks by the mod screw, closer to the inside of the slot, they are exactly the same on my bow, so it is in perfect time. 
The bow really shoots good but I have been getting some left flyer's for some reason when I know made a good shot. 
I did notice when I moved the center shot to right the bow shot just as good no mater where center shot was 
I have a limbdriver coming next week so I am going to try it first before I do the twisting on the yokes.
I will tune in with the results.


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## TozerBGood

My new rest shipped today. Then i will finish this tune to perfection stuff when I get it.


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## gavinsdad

Is there any room for adjustment on the valley for a D340? It seems like it is pretty short the way mine is currently set up and it trys to get away from me from time time.


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## baldyhunter

There isn't alot of adjustment available on the cams themselves...but you may be able to improve it. The best way to get the most valley is to synchronize the cams at full draw so the stops are touching at exactly the same time. There is a small valley in this bow (actually large for a speed bow) but you must have it synchronized perfectly to get the most out of it.


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## gavinsdad

Thanks, I'll check that out. Like I said, it's not bad. Just seems when I get a little tired it catches me off guard sometimes. Maybe I'll turn the poundage down until I get used to it.


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## geekster

Something you might want to try is shorten drawlength 1/2 inch. It want change the valley but it will keep you in the wall. It did for me any way. When I went down a 1/2 inch it made my bow feel and hold so much better at fuldraw. Just something you might want to experiment with. Also set your draw weight were you can shoot it several times with out wearing out. When you start get tired lay the bow down. Shooting tired gets me in bad habits.


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## FIB

Great review and a good looking bow too!


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## baldyhunter

geekster said:


> Something you might want to try is shorten drawlength 1/2 inch. It want change the valley but it will keep you in the wall. It did for me any way. When I went down a 1/2 inch it made my bow feel and hold so much better at fuldraw. Just something you might want to experiment with. Also set your draw weight were you can shoot it several times with out wearing out. When you start get tired lay the bow down. Shooting tired gets me in bad habits.


Good, solid advice!


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## LtlRushnArchr30

Great info here! thanks for sharing:darkbeer:


----------



## Pizonarcher

Pizonarcher said:


> Thanks for the prompt reply.
> Here is more info on my setup:
> I did serve the yokes about a month ago & been shooting it that long, cables seem the be settled down, they did stretch some. I have a fall away (Arc)set on with 7/8 center shot, Did the walk back tune with good results The ata is exactly the same on both sides. I have moved the rest to right 1/2 " & made no difference in the 3/4 left tear, using GT 22 series arrows @ 60# so they are stiff which would give a right tear but I'm getting a left. .
> I noticed on the cams, on the left side there are 2 little white etched timing marks by the mod screw, closer to the inside of the slot, they are exactly the same on my bow, so it is in perfect time.
> The bow really shoots good but I have been getting some left flyer's for some reason when I know made a good shot.
> I did notice when I moved the center shot to right the bow shot just as good no mater where center shot was
> I have a limbdriver coming next week so I am going to try it first before I do the twisting on the yokes.
> I will tune in with the results.


Got my limbdriver & with 7/8 center shot was getting a 2" left tear 
So started twisting left yokes 1/2 twist each, came over about 1/4". So next I twisted 1 full twist in left yoke & took 1 full twist out of the right side ( I notated from the factory there were no twists at all in the left yokes, both top & bottom & probably as least 25 twists in the right yokes, top & bottom) I think they did this to keep more clearance between the cam & limb.
Anyway after these twist it came over to about 1" left tear, so I took one more full twist out of right side & put 1 full twist in left side, now getting about 1/2 " left tear. I then adjusted rest over to right about 1/16", now 1/4 " tear left. Now thats just what I always shot the best at 1/4 high & 1/4 left.
I will start shooting today sometime & see how it shoots & do some fine tuning if needed.
So in conclusion the twisting yokes works.:thumbs_up


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## TozerBGood

Pizonarcher said:


> Got my limbdriver & with 7/8 center shot was getting a 2" left tear
> So started twisting left yokes 1/2 twist each, came over about 1/4". So next I twisted 1 full twist in left yoke & took 1 full twist out of the right side ( I notated from the factory there were no twists at all in the left yokes, both top & bottom & probably as least 25 twists in the right yokes, top & bottom) I think they did this to keep more clearance between the cam & limb.
> Anyway after these twist it came over to about 1" left tear, so I took one more full twist out of right side & put 1 full twist in left side, now getting about 1/2 " left tear. I then adjusted rest over to right about 1/16", now 1/4 " tear left. Now thats just what I always shot the best at 1/4 high & 1/4 left.
> I will start shooting today sometime & see how it shoots & do some fine tuning if needed.
> So in conclusion the twisting yokes works.:thumbs_up


:thumbs_up. My Trophy Taker supposed to arrive next Wed. Thanks for posting this followup Pizon. This is definitely one of the more valuable threads on AT!

(NYUK! NYUK! NYUK!)


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## ChuckT

TozerBGood said:


> : This is definitely one of the more valuable threads on AT!
> 
> (NYUK! NYUK! NYUK!)


ABSOLUTLEY!

Just reading this has explained why my bow is doing what its doing.

Long story won't get into details. But was told not to use bareshafts and only paper shoot with fletches and you will never get it perfect.

Whole article explains why the "PRO" was perplexed with left and low tears!
He never did figure it out and he just got to an acceptable level and called it great. 

Don't get me wrong my bow shoots good and I can hit any kill zone out to 70 yrds. But I strive for touching arrows all the time.

:wav:


----------



## baldyhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> Got my limbdriver & with 7/8 center shot was getting a 2" left tear
> So started twisting left yokes 1/2 twist each, came over about 1/4". So next I twisted 1 full twist in left yoke & took 1 full twist out of the right side ( I notated from the factory there were no twists at all in the left yokes, both top & bottom & probably as least 25 twists in the right yokes, top & bottom) I think they did this to keep more clearance between the cam & limb.
> Anyway after these twist it came over to about 1" left tear, so I took one more full twist out of right side & put 1 full twist in left side, now getting about 1/2 " left tear. I then adjusted rest over to right about 1/16", now 1/4 " tear left. Now thats just what I always shot the best at 1/4 high & 1/4 left.
> I will start shooting today sometime & see how it shoots & do some fine tuning if needed.
> So in conclusion the twisting yokes works.:thumbs_up


Glad to here it got your bow shooting the way you want it to!


----------



## baldyhunter

ChuckT said:


> ABSOLUTLEY!
> 
> Just reading this has explained why my bow is doing what its doing.
> 
> Long story won't get into details. But was told not to use bareshafts and only paper shoot with fletches and you will never get it perfect.
> 
> Whole article explains why the "PRO" was perplexed with left and low tears!
> He never did figure it out and he just got to an acceptable level and called it great.
> 
> Don't get me wrong my bow shoots good and I can hit any kill zone out to 70 yrds. But I strive for touching arrows all the time.
> 
> :wav:


Chuck, 
sent you some useful information.
Ken


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## bradgarfield

Great info...thanks


----------



## baldyhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> Got my limbdriver & with 7/8 center shot was getting a 2" left tear
> So started twisting left yokes 1/2 twist each, came over about 1/4". So next I twisted 1 full twist in left yoke & took 1 full twist out of the right side ( I notated from the factory there were no twists at all in the left yokes, both top & bottom & probably as least 25 twists in the right yokes, top & bottom) I think they did this to keep more clearance between the cam & limb.
> Anyway after these twist it came over to about 1" left tear, so I took one more full twist out of right side & put 1 full twist in left side, now getting about 1/2 " left tear. I then adjusted rest over to right about 1/16", now 1/4 " tear left. Now thats just what I always shot the best at 1/4 high & 1/4 left.
> I will start shooting today sometime & see how it shoots & do some fine tuning if needed.
> So in conclusion the twisting yokes works.:thumbs_up



So your about 2 to 2.5 turns in on the left side and the same out on the right. That's been about average from the factory position to get a good tune...makes you wander why Bowtech is setting them up to tune so far in toward the riser from the factory. I did here that they may be considering serving the base of the yokes from the factory.


----------



## TSPham

*Fine tuning help for bare shaft grouping*

Okay, excuse my ignorance, but this yoke tuning is all new to me. Let me summarize what I understand so you guys can pick up where I start to get confused.

I got paper tuning down, but want to summarize what I'm understanding. With tail-out tears, you want to shorten that side of the yoke (left tear, shorten left yoke to create more left cam lean or let out right yoke). Likewise, you can move the rest slightly in to brace, correct? For tail-in tears, reverse everthing to lessen the left-cam lean?

Where I can't get it down is 20 yard bare shaft shooting. My bare shafts are shooting about 2 inches right (inside toward brace) of my vaned arrows. If I understand correctly, you can correct this by moving the rest out from brace. 

If I wanted to maintain rest on centershot, can I fine tune bare shaft at 20 yards by yoke twisting to create more cam lean to left (assuming I don't want to move my rest out away from brace anymore?)

I got perfect paper tuning at 2-8 yards, but notice the bare shafts start drifting away from my vanes around 20 yards......or should I just leave it. I don't detect much on walk back to 35 yards, but definitely see the bare shafts grouping farther and farther in (to right) from vanes, striking the target on a bad tail left (out) angle.


----------



## baldyhunter

TSPham said:


> Okay, excuse my ignorance, but this yoke tuning is all new to me. Let me summarize what I understand so you guys can pick up where I start to get confused.
> 
> I got paper tuning down, but want to summarize what I'm understanding. With tail-out tears, you want to shorten that side of the yoke (left tear, shorten left yoke to create more left cam lean or let out right yoke). Likewise, you can move the rest slightly in to brace, correct? For tail-in tears, reverse everthing to lessen the left-cam lean?
> 
> Where I can't get it down is 20 yard bare shaft shooting. My bare shafts are shooting about 2 inches right (inside toward brace) of my vaned arrows. If I understand correctly, you can correct this by moving the rest out from brace.
> 
> If I wanted to maintain rest on centershot, can I fine tune bare shaft at 20 yards by yoke twisting to create more cam lean to left (assuming I don't want to move my rest out away from brace anymore?)
> 
> I got perfect paper tuning at 2-8 yards, but notice the bare shafts start drifting away from my vanes around 20 yards......or should I just leave it. I don't detect much on walk back to 35 yards, but definitely see the bare shafts grouping farther and farther in (to right) from vanes, striking the target on a bad tail left (out) angle.


You can get it better if you want. If your bare shaft arrows are hitting right of your fletched arrows the cause is a tail left tear. You have all the basics down but you'll want to move your rest to the right (in toward the riser on a RH bow) to fix it. It sounds to me like your very, very close. Try this:
1)mark your rest with a pencil in its current possition.
2)move your rest one pencil mark width (about 1/64" or less) and check. 
3)move the rest in barely perceptible movements right till fixed.

If it's as close as you describe you should get your fix with less than a 1/16" move toward the riser so you want have to worry about moving it from the center. 

If you'd rather correct using the yokes put 1/2 twist in each left side yoke and paper tune from there. This may actually over-correct you though.
Ken


----------



## Pizonarcher

Just wanted to say bow shoots great, shot good before but after twisting for a good paper tear shot my best groups yet out to 35 yds, (I shoot HC class so thats all farther I shoot) Also ata was same on both sides before from factory (probably why they were twisted up that way) but now I'm 1/16 closer on the left side. Some of the older Bowtech bows shot better that way, made the cables run in the cam grove better.
:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## baldyhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> Just wanted to say bow shoots great, shot good before but after twisting for a good paper tear shot my best groups yet out to 35 yds, (I shoot HC class so thats all farther I shoot) Also ata was same on both sides before from factory (probably why they were twisted up that way) but now I'm 1/16 closer on the left side. Some of the older Bowtech bows shot better that way, made the cables run in the cam grove better.
> :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


Good to here I'm heading out to my first shoot of the year this weekend and think it should be good. This is easily one of the most accurate bows I've owned.


----------



## alphamaxhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> I notated from the factory there were no twists at all in the left yokes, both top & bottom & probably as least 25 twists in the right yokes, top & bottom


I was messing with my d350 tonight and found the same thing. It took me a little bit to try and fiqure out what way I needed to go to add twists.


----------



## alphamaxhunter

*Cam Angle*

When aligning the top cam angle the arrow should touch the string just above the serving and under the peep right? So do you go to the same point with the bottom cam or do you go under the nock point?


----------



## baldyhunter

In my first post My personal bow tuned well with the arrow hitting just under the peep. But the ones I've tuned since then have all come into tune with the arrow hitting the string just above the center serving...so this is where I've been recommending people start now. Both cam angles should be as close to even as you can get them before you start. I know it's hard to get perfect on the bottom because the string stop is in the way and on some of them it's a pain to remove...but try to get the top contacting just above the center serving and the bottom as close to that same amount of lean as you can. One good method is to set your top...measure how far the arrow contacts the string from the top cam...then place that measurement on the lower portion of the string (tape) and adjust the bottom lean till it hits that spot. Once you get the first adjustment in just keep making the exact same adjustments on top and bottom and they'll stay the same.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

gavinsdad said:


> Is there any room for adjustment on the valley for a D340? It seems like it is pretty short the way mine is currently set up and it trys to get away from me from time time.


Good topic as I just dealt with this today! Someone came over and needed more valley but did not want to sacrifice performance...so began a half day of fun. Here's the verdict based on what you prioritize.

If you absolutely cannot sacrifice performance and you aren't bothered by an extra 1/2" of draw (usually a bad idea):
-simply move your draw stops to one number below there current position without moving your module. On my draw machine this added exactly 1/2" to the draw length and did absolutely nothing to performance (same speed).

If you feel like you don't mind loosing about 5 fps but want a longer valley (quite a bit actually) and you want to keep your draw length the same:
-move the module one number higher than its current position but keep the draw stops in the same hole.

If you don't mind adding 1/4" or so to you draw length, but you want a longer valley without compromising much speed we have option 3. The one we ended up using today.
1) you must first shorten your string in order to bring the timing in and shortening draw length. You want the cables rubbing the front timing marks on the cams. By doing this you will be dropping your draw weight slightly, which you can account for by adding turns to the limb bolts (unless of course your maxxed out--then you can shorten both cables and string to bring your ATA in). Once you have the cams advanced as far as practicable (hitting the front timing dots) you need to move the draw stops to the next lower number. The end result is a loss of about 2 to 3 fps and a slight increase in draw length. But a rather noticeable increase in valley size. This added exactly 1/4 " to his draw length.
Hope this helps. 
Ken


----------



## TNUT

Brought home my destroyer 350. 26'' draw, 70lbs. Limbdriver rest, and HHA sight. I sighted in and my sight is buried all the way to the right and the riser covers about 1 third of the sight. I am shooting Maxima 250's.

I am wondering if my arrows are underspined? And I am wondering if I follow baldyhunters tuning steps if it will bring my rest and sight back out away from the riser, or if this is just how the destroyers are ending up?

There are no twists in the left or right yokes in the top or bottom.

I tried to check my arrow spine on Carbon Express website, but my subscription to what ever program allows me to read pdf files is expired.


----------



## baldyhunter

TNUT said:


> Brought home my destroyer 350. 26'' draw, 70lbs. Limbdriver rest, and HHA sight. I sighted in and my sight is buried all the way to the right and the riser covers about 1 third of the sight. I am shooting Maxima 250's.
> 
> I am wondering if my arrows are underspined? And I am wondering if I follow baldyhunters tuning steps if it will bring my rest and sight back out away from the riser, or if this is just how the destroyers are ending up?
> 
> There are no twists in the left or right yokes in the top or bottom.
> 
> I tried to check my arrow spine on Carbon Express website, but my subscription to what ever program allows me to read pdf files is expired.


I'd have went with the 350's for sure but that won't change where the bow tunes much. All of them are coming from the factory tuning toward the inside of the riser like yours. You'll need to relax the right side yokes and twist up the left side to pull the string left and get it shooting down the center. If you follow this thread a good starting point is to get an arrow held against the left side of the top cam contacting your string about 1" above the center serving. It should tune close to center from there. If your a perfectionist and want it bare shaft tuned Your better off looking at my first post and following those directions except for the revised string contact point.
Ken


----------



## TozerBGood

TNUT said:


> Brought home my destroyer 350. 26'' draw, 70lbs. Limbdriver rest, and HHA sight. I sighted in and my sight is buried all the way to the right and the riser covers about 1 third of the sight. I am shooting Maxima 250's.
> 
> I am wondering if my arrows are underspined? And I am wondering if I follow baldyhunters tuning steps if it will bring my rest and sight back out away from the riser, or if this is just how the destroyers are ending up?
> 
> There are no twists in the left or right yokes in the top or bottom.
> 
> I tried to check my arrow spine on Carbon Express website, but my subscription to what ever program allows me to read pdf files is expired.


Maxima 250's definitely on the weak side. You need to get the 350's, or if you want an arrow that's 40-45gr lighter than the Maxima 350...try Victory VForce HV V1 350. Very nice arrows.


----------



## 1seth

PARAGRAPHs!!!


----------



## TozerBGood

1seth said:


> PARAGRAPHs!!!


You might try thanking Baldy at the same time. 

But if you look at post # 84 that may help.


----------



## poppingrunt

1seth said:


> PARAGRAPHs!!!


Get over it, i think Baldihunter has gotten enough crap about it, and im also sure he uses paragraghs now. I mean this is his thread and he is the destroyer tuning guru.


----------



## bowhuntinDE

I hope this isn't old news but I think Bowtech must have watched this thread.I picked up my D350 last night and guess what!!! My yokes ARE served. Threw a rest and loop on real quick just to shoot.Boy is this bow impressive. Let the twistin begin.


----------



## geekster

Thanks Baldyhunter for the wealth of info you have given archerytalk on tuning the destoyers.


----------



## poppingrunt

geekster said:


> Thanks Baldyhunter for the wealth of info you have given archerytalk on tuning the destoyers.


x2


----------



## TNUT

Its a good thing I only picked up a half dozen 250's. My sight was so far off from the start that I lost the first three arrows anyway!


----------



## poppingrunt

TNUT said:


> Its a good thing I only picked up a half dozen 250's. My sight was so far off from the start that I lost the first three arrows anyway!


is there a way to get it in the general erea?, like bore siteing but for a bow.


----------



## chasdog

A most excellent writeup on tuning the d350 . I got my 350 in jan and just love it but it does seem to shoot my broadheads slightly to the right. I will check my cam angle out tomorrow and may have my shop help me further tune it. 
I followed this thread to the end and there is lots of useful info for the Destroyer owners . Thanks baldyhunter and the rest.


----------



## baldyhunter

bowhuntinDE said:


> I hope this isn't old news but I think Bowtech must have watched this thread.I picked up my D350 last night and guess what!!! My yokes ARE served. Threw a rest and loop on real quick just to shoot.Boy is this bow impressive. Let the twistin begin.


Yep!!! how bout that. I got the word last week after myself and several others contacted Bowtech and suggested a change. It makes me respect them that much more. They are now serving the base of the "y" from the factory and their custom string shop has made the change to all new sets ordered. That is a company that listens to it's customers and is willing to change based on feedback. I'm sure this is costing them thousands of dollars in materials and time. I'd just like to thank Bowtech for the consideration.


----------



## baldyhunter

1seth said:


> PARAGRAPHs!!!


I know...I know LOL. I have learned from this though I swear! Check out TozerBgoods' edit of the post. He did an excellent job of organizing it.


----------



## nwmn

baldyhunter said:


> Yep!!! how bout that. I got the word last week after myself and several others contacted Bowtech and suggested a change. It makes me respect them that much more. They are now serving the base of the "y" from the factory and their custom string shop has made the change to all new sets ordered. That is a company that listens to it's customers and is willing to change based on feedback. I'm sure this is costing them thousands of dollars in materials and time. I'd just like to thank Bowtech for the consideration.


Are you saying that they have changed the string stop? I like bowtech as well, they definitely are not a stagnant company.


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## nwmn

My screw up it says string shop not string stop. I am ******ed


----------



## chasdog

I tried bare shaft tuning this afternoon and missed the target to the right at 20 yds so moved up to 10 yds and broke my carbon tech rhino 45/70 arrow . It was angled to the right so far that it broke it at the point where it was sticking out of the target. 
I ended up moving my arrow rest slightly to the left but was afraid to try anymore bare shafts ??????????


----------



## baldyhunter

chasdog said:


> I tried bare shaft tuning this afternoon and missed the target to the right at 20 yds so moved up to 10 yds and broke my carbon tech rhino 45/70 arrow . It was angled to the right so far that it broke it at the point where it was sticking out of the target.
> I ended up moving my arrow rest slightly to the left but was afraid to try anymore bare shafts ??????????


LOL Yep! never a good idea going out and chucking bare shafts at twenty yards. Remember bare shaft tuning is the pinnacle or capstone of fine tuning. It is the most precise method and should be done after your bow is already well tuned. If your bow hasn't been tuned and it is straight from the factory and the rest is down the center...expect a significant tail left reaction causing an extreme right poi with bare shafts. There may also be a spine issue to consider. Out of time now but I'll pm you later.
Ken


----------



## chasdog

baldyhunter said:


> LOL Yep! never a good idea going out and chucking bare shafts at twenty yards. Remember bare shaft tuning is the pinnacle or capstone of fine tuning. It is the most precise method and should be done after your bow is already well tuned. If your bow hasn't been tuned and it is straight from the factory and the rest is down the center...expect a significant tail left reaction causing an extreme right poi with bare shafts. There may also be a spine issue to consider. Out of time now but I'll pm you later.
> Ken


I have had the bow since jan and thought it was tuned. Shoots field points well out to 70 yrds . Just thought I would check it with bare shafts since I read your bowtuning article.
Appreciate your response and any help you can offer.
Charlie


----------



## foudarme

very interesting thread, indeed...after having served my factory cables (cause each day my paper hole was changing) and get a perfect tuning and steady paper hole I have tried something else and have made some floatting yokes with 18 strands of astroflight...but I have to go back to split cables because, on my yokes I cant twist them enough to put the cams straight...the yoke's diameter is too large and don't allow more than 8 turns (its a 2 bundles yoke)...with my right yokes sides twisted at their maximum, I have an important gap between a shaft put on the flat side of the cams and the string...the shaft is at the loop's level 3 centimeters at the left of the string...my paper hole is pretty good but I can bear to use the bow with such a cam leaning!

I have made 2 different 16 strands astroflight strings and get exactly the same speed with them and the factory string... but on my strings there is no speed buttons...

I get 271fps for a 517gr arrow and 64# at a true 30" draw length (both the modules and draw stops are set on 29.5"), with 14gr on the string, that's exactly the same speed that out of the box after perfect sync tuning...thats not huge, I think...280fps at 70#@30 (true draw length, not modules length) with the same arrow...

When I remove the cables bowjax, I earn 3fps of more...I have greatly improve the noise thanks to the astroflight and you are perfectly true: I have tried with a pair of brush buttons (cause i had no speed buttons I heve tried with them to see if they could do the job, but they haven't) instead of the speed buttons...it has made the bow *much more* comfortable and less noisy but it was loosing 2 fps ...


----------



## foudarme

foudarme said:


> with my right yokes sides twisted at their maximum, I have an important gap between a shaft put on the flat side of the cams and the string...the shaft is at the loop's level 3 centimeters at the left of the string...


at full draw of course!


----------



## kestrel53065

*340/350*

Great thread!

In regard to comparing the 340 and 350......... Is one more accurate than the other? Easier to shoot accurately than the other? The 350 has a shorter brace height but would the FLX guard help in this respect?

Thanks,


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> very interesting thread, indeed...after having served my factory cables (cause each day my paper hole was changing) and get a perfect tuning and steady paper hole I have tried something else and have made some floatting yokes with 18 strands of astroflight...but I have to go back to split cables because, on my yokes I cant twist them enough to put the cams straight...the yoke's diameter is too large and don't allow more than 8 turns (its a 2 bundles yoke)...with my right yokes sides twisted at their maximum, I have an important gap between a shaft put on the flat side of the cams and the string...the shaft is at the loop's level 3 centimeters at the left of the string...my paper hole is pretty good but I can bear to use the bow with such a cam leaning!
> 
> I have made 2 different 16 strands astroflight strings and get exactly the same speed with them and the factory string... but on my strings there is no speed buttons...
> 
> I get 271fps for a 517gr arrow and 64# at a true 30" draw length (both the modules and draw stops are set on 29.5"), with 14gr on the string, that's exactly the same speed that out of the box after perfect sync tuning...thats not huge, I think...280fps at 70#@30 (true draw length, not modules length) with the same arrow...
> 
> When I remove the cables bowjax, I earn 3fps of more...I have greatly improve the noise thanks to the astroflight and you are perfectly true: I have tried with a pair of brush buttons (cause i had no speed buttons I heve tried with them to see if they could do the job, but they haven't) instead of the speed buttons...it has made the bow *much more* comfortable and less noisy but it was loosing 2 fps ...


I've been making strings for myself and others using Trophy as of late with fantastic results. If you were getting close to the same speeds with astroflight (a material I haven't experimented with) with no speed nocks I'd imagine with speed nocks that may be a fast string. The nocks increase the 452X strings by 7 to 8 fps. With a served yoke instead of a floating you may be able to get it to hold a tune. I'd like to experiment with Dynaflight 10 as well but haven't as of yet. So far I like Trophy the best as it is very stable in hot wheather, very resistant to stretch, doesn't fuzz up as quickly as 452X, is slightly quieter, and only cost me 1fps over 452X. Anyone looking for their first set of aftermarket strings may want to consider Trophy.


----------



## foudarme

have you checked your cam leaning at full draw? what are your results?


----------



## baldyhunter

kestrel53065 said:


> Great thread!
> 
> In regard to comparing the 340 and 350......... Is one more accurate than the other? Easier to shoot accurately than the other? The 350 has a shorter brace height but would the FLX guard help in this respect?
> 
> Thanks,


I really can't comment on this. Someone would really have to shoot them side by side for several days to comment. My subjective feeling is that it really depends on the archer. Someone with good, consistent form and proper shooting habits will not notice a difference in accuracy between the two. I've honestly never had a bow more accurate than my 350 (maybe as accurate but not more). The 340 may be a little more foregiving in hunting situations but again that is just me speculating.
Ken


----------



## Jonny Boy

Nice lookin' bow!:shade:


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> have you checked your cam leaning at full draw? what are your results?



I've still got some top right lean but a good bit less than the way they are coming from the factory. You would have to twist the left side up so there would be extreme pre-lean to get them straight at full draw as they swing a pretty large arc from rest to full draw. I'll throw mine on the draw board and check the exact lean at full draw later. Most of the ones I've dealt with have been tuning at center when an arrow held against the left side of the top cam contacts the string about 1" above the center serving. Again, they will still be leaning top right at full draw but to a much lesser extent then they are coming from the factory.
Ken


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> I've still got some top right lean but a good bit less than the way they are coming from the factory. You would have to twist the left side up so there would be extreme pre-lean to get them straight at full draw as they swing a pretty large arc from rest to full draw. I'll throw mine on the draw board and check the exact lean at full draw later. Most of the ones I've dealt with have been tuning at center when an arrow held against the left side of the top cam contacts the string about 1" above the center serving. Again, they will still be leaning top right at full draw but to a much lesser extent then they are coming from the factory.
> Ken



Ok! I was just wondering if they can be put straight at full draw...I had comitted the error not to control them when the bow was new and didn't remember how they were out of the box...so finally I will keep my floating yoke !

thanks for all!

for speaking of something else, on your custom strings, do you serve above the tags ends or do you cut them at each extremity of the loop?


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> Ok! I was just wondering if they can be put straight at full draw...I had comitted the error not to control them when the bow was new and didn't remember how they were out of the box...so finally I will keep my floating yoke !
> 
> thanks for all!
> 
> for speaking of something else, on your custom strings, do you serve above the tags ends or do you cut them at each extremity of the loop?


 Some people just cut them but I prefer a loose tie in before I serve. I take the tag ends, wrap them both twice around the string, then run them through the string between the colors (do this in the direction you will be serving), pull very tight, and finally wrap them around the post to hold them. After that I burnish both colors seperately...pre-stretch straight a little...twist...stretch good and burnish...then pull tight and serve. I cut the tag ends after I serve a few wraps under the end serving to hold everything in place then finish serving. Feel free to pm me with any questions you may have with string making.
Ken


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> Some people just cut them but I prefer a loose tie in before I serve. I take the tag ends, wrap them both twice around the string, then run them through the string between the colors (do this in the direction you will be serving), pull very tight, and finally wrap them around the post to hold them. After that I burnish both colors seperately...pre-stretch straight a little...twist...stretch good and burnish...then pull tight and serve. I cut the tag ends after I serve a few wraps under the end serving to hold everything in place then finish serving. Feel free to pm me with any questions you may have with string making.
> Ken


thanks ken, I really appreciate...jean


----------



## jim p

If it is important to get both cams leaning at the same angle, you may be able to place the arrow on the opposite sided of the cams so that it is pointing away from the string and then measure this distance. This might eliminate the interference of the string stopper.

I don't have the bow in hand so I don't know it this would work or not.

I have enjoyed the write up. Thanks.


----------



## zslayer

That is a great review, thanks for sharing.


----------



## baldyhunter

jim p said:


> If it is important to get both cams leaning at the same angle, you may be able to place the arrow on the opposite sided of the cams so that it is pointing away from the string and then measure this distance. This might eliminate the interference of the string stopper.
> 
> I don't have the bow in hand so I don't know it this would work or not.
> 
> I have enjoyed the write up. Thanks.


Great idea! I agree that is is important to have them leaning the same. I've always managed by measuring the distance from the top cam to the contact point then duplicating that measurement to the bottom (with some difficulty of course) but next time I'll your suggestion.
Ken


----------



## TozerBGood

baldyhunter said:


> Yep!!! how bout that. I got the word last week after myself and several others contacted Bowtech and suggested a change. It makes me respect them that much more. They are now serving the base of the "y" from the factory and their custom string shop has made the change to all new sets ordered. That is a company that listens to it's customers and is willing to change based on feedback. I'm sure this is costing them thousands of dollars in materials and time. I'd just like to thank Bowtech for the consideration.


I would say they are listening as long as the customer is making good sense.


----------



## TozerBGood

nwmn said:


> My screw up it says string shop not string stop. I am ******ed


Hah. Good one. And you got my hopes up there for a second about the string stop thang. I do wish they'd think of something to quiet it down.


----------



## TozerBGood

foudarme said:


> very interesting thread, indeed...after having served my factory cables (cause each day my paper hole was changing) and get a perfect tuning and steady paper hole I have tried something else and have made some floatting yokes with 18 strands of astroflight...but I have to go back to split cables because, on my yokes I cant twist them enough to put the cams straight...the yoke's diameter is too large and don't allow more than 8 turns (its a 2 bundles yoke)...with my right yokes sides twisted at their maximum, I have an important gap between a shaft put on the flat side of the cams and the string...the shaft is at the loop's level 3 centimeters at the left of the string...my paper hole is pretty good but I can bear to use the bow with such a cam leaning!
> 
> I have made 2 different 16 strands astroflight strings and get exactly the same speed with them and the factory string... but on my strings there is no speed buttons...
> 
> I get 271fps for a 517gr arrow and 64# at a true 30" draw length (both the modules and draw stops are set on 29.5"), with 14gr on the string, that's exactly the same speed that out of the box after perfect sync tuning...thats not huge, I think...280fps at 70#@30 (true draw length, not modules length) with the same arrow...
> 
> When I remove the cables bowjax, I earn 3fps of more...I have greatly improve the noise thanks to the astroflight and you are perfectly true: I have tried with a pair of brush buttons (cause i had no speed buttons I heve tried with them to see if they could do the job, but they haven't) instead of the speed buttons...it has made the bow *much more* comfortable and less noisy but it was loosing 2 fps ...





baldyhunter said:


> I've been making strings for myself and others using Trophy as of late with fantastic results. If you were getting close to the same speeds with astroflight (a material I haven't experimented with) with no speed nocks I'd imagine with speed nocks that may be a fast string. The nocks increase the 452X strings by 7 to 8 fps. With a served yoke instead of a floating you may be able to get it to hold a tune. I'd like to experiment with Dynaflight 10 as well but haven't as of yet. So far I like Trophy the best as it is very stable in hot wheather, very resistant to stretch, doesn't fuzz up as quickly as 452X, is slightly quieter, and only cost me 1fps over 452X. Anyone looking for their first set of aftermarket strings may want to consider Trophy.


Isn't 16 strands a bit light?


----------



## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> Isn't 16 strands a bit light?


Depends on the material. some per strand have a higher break strength than others. The popular choices here in the US are 8125 and 452X for instance. 18 strands of 8125 (120 lb per strand) actually has a higher break strength than 22 strands of 452X (75lb per strand). But break strengths for both are close to a ton so it's overkill in that regard. The more important factors for hunting and target archery are stability and stretch (and nock fit as far as strand count goes)...which is why most people do not use Astroflight any more. But directly to the point I believe Astroflight has a break strength of 125 lbs per strand so 16 strands is plenty.


----------



## TNUT

*Follow Baldyhinters tunning instructions at your arrows risk!*



















Follow baldy's instructions but beware this is what will happen.


----------



## TNUT

I have gone to two of my local shops and expland Baldy's instructions. They kind of looked at me like I was ******ed.... I did one robin hood at the first shop after tunning to Baldy's specs..... then another at the next shop, both at 20 yds. Their Destroyer sales are already going good. Now that they now how to set them up it should be that much better. Baldy should get a cut of their sales, and I kind of feel like he owes me $50 worth of arrows!

Take this thread seriously and you will be impressed!


----------



## baldyhunter

TNUT said:


> I have gone to two of my local shops and expland Baldy's instructions. They kind of looked at me like I was ******ed.... I did one robin hood at the first shop after tunning to Baldy's specs..... then another at the next shop, both at 20 yds. Their Destroyer sales are already going good. Now that they now how to set them up it should be that much better. Baldy should get a cut of their sales, and I kind of feel like he owes me $50 worth of arrows!
> 
> Take this thread seriously and you will be impressed!


LOL I wish I could take the credit for those robbinhoods! That is just some great shooting! A well tuned bow only helps but you need to take the credit on this one. There are a lot of people that couldn't shoot that well with a well tuned bow or not. That is why you shouldn't be expecting the 50$ from me LOL.
Seriously though, great shooting. I'm amazed at how well these "speed" bows shoot. Thanks for posting those pictures.
Ken


----------



## TNUT

baldyhunter said:


> LOL I wish I could take the credit for those robbinhoods! That is just some great shooting! A well tuned bow only helps but you need to take the credit on this one. There are a lot of people that couldn't shoot that well with a well tuned bow or not. That is why you shouldn't be expecting the 50$ from me LOL.
> Seriously though, great shooting. I'm amazed at how well these "speed" bows shoot. Thanks for posting those pictures.
> Ken


What if I sell them to you?....best part was I did these two without the old "Hold steady juice."


----------



## TNUT

ttt


----------



## TozerBGood

TNUT said:


> Follow baldy's instructions but beware this is what will happen.


Hah! Great shooting TNUT, but you're not supposed to shoot the Hard Wood floor.

JK JK

Is that 4 arrows down the drain, or just 2?


Seriously, your gonna have to stop shooting at the same spot. My buddies are trying to make me shoot first at the 3D shoots for this very reason!


----------



## TNUT

TozerBGood said:


> Hah! Great shooting TNUT, but you're not supposed to shoot the Hard Wood floor.
> 
> JK JK
> 
> 
> Seriously, your gonna have to stop shooting at the same spot. My buddies are trying to make me shoot first at the 3D shoots for this very reason!


Five spots for a reason right! I haven't had this big a boner for a bow in five years!


----------



## TozerBGood

TNUT said:


> Five spots for a reason right! I haven't had this big a boner for a bow in five years!


Time to go to some competition shoots and get some payback...eh?


----------



## TNUT

TozerBGood said:


> Time to go to some competition shoots and get some payback...eh?


yeh maybe I should fill out the sponsorship paperwork on Bowtech's website eh? My luck I would get sponsored and have the opportunity to make a bunch of money... then I would have to explain to the wife my new life decision...and she would shut it down!


----------



## Gerhard

The 350 at work in South Africa 










A lot of people were interested in the Destroyer while they did not really look at the PSE's or Hoyts .... 










My D 350 is now called M'Bogo (the swhaili name for the cape buffalo or black death)


----------



## TNUT

Gerhard said:


> The 350 at work in South Africa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people were interested in the Destroyer while they did not really look at the PSE's or Hoyts ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My D 350 is now called M'Bogo (the swhaili name for the cape buffalo or black death)


That is too cool for words!


----------



## baldyhunter

TNUT said:


> That is too cool for words!


I agree! Those blacked out destroyers are awesome. And that has to be the coolest nickname I've ever heard for any bow.


----------



## TNUT

Dude you totaly need to change your name and avatar now!


----------



## TNUT

TozerBGood said:


> Hah! Great shooting TNUT, but you're not supposed to shoot the Hard Wood floor.
> 
> JK JK
> 
> Is that 4 arrows down the drain, or just 2?
> 
> 
> Seriously, your gonna have to stop shooting at the same spot. My buddies are trying to make me shoot first at the 3D shoots for this very reason!


All 4 are sheet!


----------



## TNUT

I don't want to get all righteous... but I shot all the new bows this year.... and I really think Bowtech is on to something with the Destroyer.


----------



## foudarme

TozerBGood said:


> Isn't 16 strands a bit light?


I had sent a mail to brownell about astroflight and they have adviced to me 16 strands for the string and 18-20 for the cables for my D350 70# bow...

according to them the average breakage limit for each strand of astroflight is 125lb...the string's compound factor for a compound that I have applied is poundage X 21 

for my destroyer it gives: 70x21 = 1470 / 125 = 11.76 strands...so I think 16 strands is enough

Do someone think I am wrong? I don't want to make fun with safety!


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I had sent a mail to brownell about astroflight and they have adviced to me 16 strands for the string and 18-20 for the cables for my D350 70# bow...
> 
> according to them the average breakage limit for each strand of astroflight is 125lb...the string's compound factor for a compound that I have applied is poundage X 21
> 
> for my destroyer it gives: 70x21 = 1470 / 125 = 11.76 strands...so I think 16 strands is enough
> 
> Do someone think I am wrong? I don't want to make fun with safety!


16 strands is plenty.


----------



## TozerBGood

foudarme said:


> I had sent a mail to brownell about astroflight and they have adviced to me 16 strands for the string and 18-20 for the cables for my D350 70# bow...
> 
> according to them the average breakage limit for each strand of astroflight is 125lb...the string's compound factor for a compound that I have applied is poundage X 21
> 
> for my destroyer it gives: 70x21 = 1470 / 125 = 11.76 strands...so I think 16 strands is enough
> 
> Do someone think I am wrong? I don't want to make fun with safety!


Nope, I just didn't know anything about astroflight. If they say it's ok, then it's probably fine.


----------



## foudarme

ken, how do you take care with your timing dots?

let me explain to you ....considering that the bow is laid in front of you with the sight towards your belly:

- if I synch my bow regarding only to the ATA (32" 3/8 = 82.23 mm) my two cables aren't included into the 2 timing dots...I have only one cable included between the 2 dots (and just under the upper dot) and on the other cam, the other cable which is not included between the 2 dots, but just above the upper one

- if I synch the bow regarding only the 2 dots and taking care that both the 2 cables are included between both the 2 dots, then my ATA fall down to 32.04" = 81.4mm

what have you choosen to take care with: dots or ATA?


----------



## baldyhunter

strings too short then...let out the string, then get both cable between the dots, then synchronize. You should be able to get both cables between the dots and your ATA dead on. I don't have the time to go into detail now. I'll check and see if your good later. You shouldn't have to compromise either one.
Ken


----------



## Jhorne

baldyhunter said:


> strings too short then...let out the string, then get both cable between the dots, then synchronize. You should be able to get both cables between the dots and your ATA dead on. I don't have the time to go into detail now. I'll check and see if your good later. You shouldn't have to compromise either one.
> Ken


Ken, any binary system I've ever tuned, as long as the draw stops were in synch at full draw, it really didn't matter if the cables were in between the timing marks are not. Is the Destroyer diffrent?


----------



## baldyhunter

Jhorne said:


> Ken, any binary system I've ever tuned, as long as the draw stops were in synch at full draw, it really didn't matter if the cables were in between the timing marks are not. Is the Destroyer diffrent?


Not in particular. I've played a little with mine on both sides of the dots and they worked fine from strictly functional standpoint. The only issues are the obvious ones:
1)draw length will be shortened or lengthened depending on the side of the dots you are on.
2)the factory recommends you be somewhere within these dots
3)I've found the best over-all performance with my personal bow between these dots taking into account speed per DW, DL, and letoff. Mine sits with the string a little long toward the back of the dots. Again though, that is my personal bow/setups best performance. I've tuned all the other bows I've worked on this way as well.

Bowtech BTW recommends + or- 1/4" on the ATA and I've found cam timing to be more important than ATA so I'm not a stickler for ATA. I like to get 1 or 2 pounds maxed out over it's peak weight (72 lbs on a 70) and as long as the ATA is close that is good to go. A lot of it admitedly boils down to personal preferance. If I found a timing spot that worked better a little ouside the dots it'd stay their but in my experience and taking all factors into consideration this hasn't happened yet. And either way I think the best place to start the tuning and experimenting process should always be at factory specs...then play from there.


----------



## foudarme

I spent 3 hours this evening for checking this timing dots affair...starting again from scratch!

I have keep off all the string and cables and put them to the factory length under 100# of controled tension...then put them back on the bow and re-synch it in trying to keep the cables into the timing dot zone (in my case in choosing the twisting option rather than the untwisting)...nothing to do, at the best ATA compromise (in fact 82.1cm instead of 82.2), I have one cable in the zone just aside the upper dot and the opposite cable just above the upper dot ...

On my scale the bow is just under 71# at its max...and my paper is not far from perfect...time to go bed now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (it's 22h47 in my country, just now)


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I spent 3 hours this evening for checking this timing dots affair...starting again from scratch!
> 
> I have keep off all the string and cables and put them to the factory length under 100# of controled tension...then put them back on the bow and re-synch it in trying to keep the cables into the timing dot zone (in my case in choosing the twisting option rather than the untwisting)...nothing to do, at the best ATA compromise (in fact 82.1cm instead of 82.2), I have one cable in the zone just aside the upper dot and the opposite cable just above the upper dot ...
> 
> On my scale the bow is just under 71# at its max...and my paper is not far from perfect...



Your changing lengths either way...your just changing the cable lengths...why is one preferable to another? I've found that the string does indeed run a little short when it's set at the factory lengths. This is actually common for some Bowtech models but they are usually within 1/8" or so to get your tuning to factory specs. This is really a non-issue. I think your focusing too much on this. If it were mine...I'd let the string out 1/8" and bring everything into spec and start tuning from there. Even if you asked Bowtech all their tuning specs are approximate. ATA is a starting recomendation but Bowtech themselves will tell you + or - 1/4" is fine. All specs are fine within an allowable range. That is to say none of it is set in stone. There is no reason to be a stickler for exact string length (which BTW will be changing with time...stretch anyway).


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I spent 3 hours this evening for checking this timing dots affair...starting again from scratch!
> 
> I have keep off all the string and cables and put them to the factory length under 100# of controled tension...then put them back on the bow and re-synch it in trying to keep the cables into the timing dot zone (in my case in choosing the twisting option rather than the untwisting)...nothing to do, at the best ATA compromise (in fact 82.1cm instead of 82.2), I have one cable in the zone just aside the upper dot and the opposite cable just above the upper dot ...
> 
> On my scale the bow is just under 71# at its max...and my paper is not far from perfect...time to go bed now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (it's 22h47 in my country, just now)


One more point and it is JHornes. If you feel you absolutey must have the string precisely at factory specs (this just seems very arbitrary to me) but your OK with it a little outside the dots. That is probably fine as long as your OK with the other performance and "fit" indicators (speed, DL, DW, Lettoff).


----------



## Jhorne

baldyhunter said:


> I assume that tear is happening while the rest is at 7/8" or close centershot right? If that's the case yes you'll want to start with 1/2 twist in the left yoke....then next take 1/2 twist out of the right yoke...repeat. This way you will be altering the cable lengths as little as possible while changing the cam angle. Once you get close (I'm guessing about a twist and a half in the left yoke and a twist and a half out of the right yoke based on what a lot of them have been but your really better off going slowly with small adjustments at a time) recheck your synchronization and timing. If you don't serve the base of the "y" take your time...shoot each adjustment in with several shots and recheck periodically. It can be done with well shot in cables but based on some (mine and others) experience now I'd highly recommend serving the base of the "y"
> Ken


This will move the string to the left, away from the riser, right.


----------



## baldyhunter

Jhorne said:


> This will move the string to the left, away from the riser, right.


That is correct


----------



## foudarme

ken when you write:

"This arrow is approximately 381 grains. The bow is set at 67lbs with a 28" draw. I did chrono this setup with an IBO weight arrow at around (average) 328fps with a loaded string (mine) which puts it about 1 or 2 fps faster than the IBO rating."

381gr gives 5.68gr per pound so this arrow is well above IBO ratio but even at 353fps IBO, a 67#@28 381gr arrow couldn't exceed 319fps in the best case (nothing on the string)...so maybe I haven't understand and you have get this speed (328fps) with another weight of arrow

but with your 8125 string (Mods set in 28" position (which gives in fact 28.5 of draw length, number I have used); weight set at 67lbs; 335 grains) you get 332 fps...that's a true 352 IBO speed if there is nothing on the string...

there's something I don't understand...can you explain it to me please...


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> ken when you write:
> 
> "This arrow is approximately 381 grains. The bow is set at 67lbs with a 28" draw. I did chrono this setup with an IBO weight arrow at around (average) 328fps with a loaded string (mine) which puts it about 1 or 2 fps faster than the IBO rating."
> 
> 381gr gives 5.68gr per pound so this arrow is well above IBO ratio but even at 353fps IBO, a 67#@28 381gr arrow couldn't exceed 319fps in the best case (nothing on the string)...so maybe I haven't understand and you have get this speed (328fps) with another weight of arrow
> 
> but with your 8125 string (Mods set in 28" position (which gives in fact 28.5 of draw length, number I have used); weight set at 67lbs; 335 grains) you get 332 fps...that's a true 352 IBO speed if there is nothing on the string...
> 
> there's something I don't understand...can you explain it to me please...



There was no misprint on my part you just need to reread the section you quoted carefully. The arrows I used to tune the bow were 381 grains. I never listed the speed for those arrows and now I honestly can't remember what they shot. When I said "this arrow" I was refering to the one I tuned with. I next stated, "I did chrono this setup with an IBO weight arrow at around (average) 328fps with a loaded string (mine) which puts it about 1 or 2 fps faster than the IBO rating." An "IBO weight" arrow on this particular setup is an arrow that weighs exactly 335 grains...5gpp. That is the arrow I got my speed rating from but my string was loaded and you must take that into account. I believe I had around 10 to 15 grains on the string. You can do the math. The speed calculator I used gave me between a 351 and 352 IBO rating...And I stated "1 to 2 fps over IBO". This was all done with the module in the 28" position.

On the 8125 string you are correct. All these numbers were taken with the mod in the 28" position as well which tend to run 3/8" long depending on how you measure it. I didn't mean to misrepresent anything which is why I never stated that these were taken with corrected Draw length. All these were taken as the module stated. It's just easier to take the measurements and communicate that way. Also, I'd like to note that there are some very well respected tuners on this sight (Crackers for one) that insist these bows are coming in at exactly their specified draw length. Also, if you measure it the way most of us do on this sight it still depends on timing. Little adjustments go a long way on these bows and depending on where they are sitting between the dots draw will be longer or shorter. If you kept the string where you had it yesterday I'll bet you are under your DL.

Hope that clarifies everything.
Ken


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> There was no misprint on my part you just need to reread the section you quoted carefully. The arrows I used to tune the bow were 381 grains. I never listed the speed for those arrows and now I honestly can't remember what they shot. When I said "this arrow" I was refering to the one I tuned with. I next stated, "I did chrono this setup with an IBO weight arrow at around (average) 328fps with a loaded string (mine) which puts it about 1 or 2 fps faster than the IBO rating." An "IBO weight" arrow on this particular setup is an arrow that weighs exactly 335 grains...5gpp. That is the arrow I got my speed rating from but my string was loaded and you must take that into account. I believe I had around 10 to 15 grains on the string. You can do the math. The speed calculator I used gave me between a 351 and 352 IBO rating...And I stated "1 to 2 fps over IBO". This was all done with the module in the 28" position.
> 
> On the 8125 string you are correct. All these numbers were taken with the mod in the 28" position as well which tend to run 3/8" long depending on how you measure it. I didn't mean to misrepresent anything which is why I never stated that these were taken with corrected Draw length. All these were taken as the module stated. It's just easier to take the measurements and communicate that way. Also, I'd like to note that there are some very well respected tuners on this sight (Crackers for one) that insist these bows are coming in at exactly their specified draw length. Also, if you measure it the way most of us do on this sight it still depends on timing. Little adjustments go a long way on these bows and depending on where they are sitting between the dots draw will be longer or shorter. If you kept the string where you had it yesterday I'll bet you are under your DL.
> 
> Hope that clarifies everything.
> Ken



ok I have understooden...sometimes it is difficult to well understand things when said in another language...but don't misunderstand, I don't want to hurt you about anything and if I did it I apologize!

according to DL, do you consider that the pivot point corresponds with the middle of the space between the 2 berger button holes?

yesterday after having synch my cables I finally have shortened my string of a few twists for a better peep heigth, but my DL is still half an inch above the module number.


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> ok I have understooden...sometimes it is difficult to well understand things when said in another language...but don't misunderstand, I don't want to hurt you about anything and if I did it I apologize!
> 
> according to DL, do you consider that the pivot point corresponds with the middle of the space between the 2 berger button holes?
> 
> yesterday after having synch my cables I finally have shortened my string of a few twists for a better peep heigth, but my DL is still half an inch above the module number.


You didn't hurt me at all!! I have a hard time communicating in my own language LOL. Here's how I determined the measuring point for AMO DL. Take a string and wrap it around the axle ends. put the bow in a bow vice and level the string you have around the axles perfectly (this takes static cam timing out of the equation). Place a level on the deepest part of the grip and scribe a mark to the berger hole area. When I do this I get the very front (towards the riser) of the first berger hole as a measuring point. If you measure here I get 3/8" long using the AMO method with the cables just touching the draw stops and my timing centered in the dots. This is the most common method and the one used here on this sight the most.


----------



## chasdog

*Timing marks*

So with all this talk of timing marks do you know what those 2 little white marks are on the oposite side of the cam from the timing marks for the string are for ? They are small and mine line up with the edge of the limb. They are just above the red inner cam module.


----------



## kestrel53065

What kind of press are you guys using to press the Destroyers? With the pylon mounted cam axle, is it OK to use one of the double finger type of presses?

Thanks


----------



## foudarme

kestrel53065 said:


> What kind of press are you guys using to press the Destroyers? With the pylon mounted cam axle, is it OK to use one of the double finger type of presses?
> 
> Thanks


I have an EZ press...you can perfectly do the job with it even if the cam access is a little bit less easy that on an X press...if I could I would have bought an X press but in my country it is very, very expensive...


ken, where are your speed buttons coming from, they look like the factory one? do you have a perticular preference for them?


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I have an EZ press...you can perfectly do the job with it even if the cam access is a little bit less easy that on an X press...if I could I would have bought an X press but in my country it is very, very expensive...
> 
> 
> ken, where are your speed buttons coming from, they look like the factory one? do you have a perticular preference for them?


They are just the red lined nocking points (same as what Bowtech uses) surrounded by 1/4" shrink tubing. three on each end about 1/4" from the end of the serving is the optimal possition.
Ken


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> They are just the red lined nocking points (same as what Bowtech uses)
> 
> 
> 
> have you a link for finding them, I dont know them?
Click to expand...


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are just the red lined nocking points (same as what Bowtech uses)
> 
> 
> 
> have you a link for finding them, I dont know them?
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/product_info.php?cPath=44_299&products_id=2204
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are just the red lined nocking points (same as what Bowtech uses)
> 
> Here you go
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/product_info.php?cPath=44_299&products_id=2204
> 
> 
> 
> I hadn't understooden that you were using single nock sets! thanks again, ken
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## foudarme

foudarme said:


> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hadn't understooden that you were using single nock sets! thanks again, ken
> 
> 
> 
> ken once again I need your help...
> 
> I have put 3 nock sets on each end and play with all the length available starting from the factory position...in the best case I loose 1 fps (2 in the worst) but never get any fps of more...I have used the NS without shrink tubing...
> 
> then I have tried another thing...I have 2 new breed archery genetix...don't ask me why I have 2 of them, I even don't know it myself!...the first one has been crackerized and the second has my own astroflight string on it...so I put both of them at their max and weight them:65#@29...both of them have exactly the same true 29" draw length...with the cracker one (452x) I get 261fps for a 465gr arrow (minimum legal weight for big game in my country)... with the astroflight one I get 262fps...according to my scale this one is just 0.3# above the carter's one but on the astroflight bow there is no speed button...so I have put on the astroflight bow 3 NS at each end at the same level that Mike did it on the bow he has prepared to me but I have got nothing of more on the astroflight one...not even one little fps...
> 
> so according to you what is my problem? please help me doc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## TozerBGood

*Should be Mowing the Lawn. Thanks Baldy!*

Well instead of mowing the lawn, I just had to take care of this! 

My BowTech stock string was getting frayed and worn. I guess I need to stop shooting it so much.

So I want you all to know that I ordered a New Trophy String & Cable set from BaldyHunter last a week on Friday or Saturday, and he built it over the weekend & shipped it Monday. I received Wed evening. WOW! Great shipping Baldy!

It’s 20 strands on the string and 24 strands on the cables.

Here's the results of the string replacement:

Prior to changing my string, I chronied my arrows which avg around 423gr (+/- 1 gr), bow set at 30dl, 64.5lb……. 305-307 fps.

Then I chronied the arrows after putting it on friday, prior to doing any tuning/twisting/adjusting. All I did was put the string on and shoot it a few times. It was right at 32 3/8” ATA, and the timing marks were just outside the cables. …..303fps 

Then I timed it friday and made a few yoke adjustements, and got the timing marks in the correct locations. When I was done, the ATA was approx 32 5/16”. Then today (saturday) I did some more paper/yoke tuning...got the arrow at centerline, shoots bareshaft bullets (when I hold bow correctly that is) at the same spot as my fletched arrows at 20yds...........keep reading.............310 to 313 fps.:smile:

Now it's time to kick some but next weekend at Camp Sherman 3D shoot!

Thanks Baldy…you did me a solid!


----------



## TozerBGood

Ha! My wife now blames BaldyHunter for me not mowing the lawn yet!

(oh well - maybe tomorrow - but wait that's Mother's Day - gotta barbecue tomorrow. All the kids over...and grand kids! Guess I better go mow the Lawn now!)


----------



## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> Ha! My wife now blames BaldyHunter for me not mowing the lawn yet!
> 
> (oh well - maybe tomorrow - but wait that's Mother's Day - gotta barbecue tomorrow. All the kids over...and grand kids! Guess I better go mow the Lawn now!)


I wouldn't...there's still enough shooting light for practice! LOL...Your Lawn Mower has a light on it right!

Thanks for your kind words. That bow looks awesome! Trophy is definately my new favorite material. I'm happy that you are pleased with the strings and good shooting at the 3-D.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ken once again I need your help...
> 
> I have put 3 nock sets on each end and play with all the length available starting from the factory position...in the best case I loose 1 fps (2 in the worst) but never get any fps of more...I have used the NS without shrink tubing...
> 
> then I have tried another thing...I have 2 new breed archery genetix...don't ask me why I have 2 of them, I even don't know it myself!...the first one has been crackerized and the second has my own astroflight string on it...so I put both of them at their max and weight them:65#@29...both of them have exactly the same true 29" draw length...with the cracker one (452x) I get 261fps for a 465gr arrow (minimum legal weight for big game in my country)... with the astroflight one I get 262fps...according to my scale this one is just 0.3# above the carter's one but on the astroflight bow there is no speed button...so I have put on the astroflight bow 3 NS at each end at the same level that Mike did it on the bow he has prepared to me but I have got nothing of more on the astroflight one...not even one little fps...
> 
> so according to you what is my problem? please help me doc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I might have a few ideas but won't be able to answer till tonight. I'll get back to you though.
> Ken
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## TozerBGood

baldyhunter said:


> I wouldn't...there's still enough shooting light for practice! LOL...Your Lawn Mower has a light on it right!
> 
> Thanks for your kind words. That bow looks awesome! Trophy is definately my new favorite material. I'm happy that you are pleased with the strings and good shooting at the 3-D.
> Ken


S'okay ken. I already mowed it, and got some more shootin' in. Besides, I bought her this really nice...light... battery powered weed trimmer last year, and she hasn't even used it!

Here's another pic of my bow upside down (and mowed lawn right side up) from a different angle.


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ken once again I need your help...
> 
> I have put 3 nock sets on each end and play with all the length available starting from the factory position...in the best case I loose 1 fps (2 in the worst) but never get any fps of more...I have used the NS without shrink tubing...
> 
> then I have tried another thing...I have 2 new breed archery genetix...don't ask me why I have 2 of them, I even don't know it myself!...the first one has been crackerized and the second has my own astroflight string on it...so I put both of them at their max and weight them:65#@29...both of them have exactly the same true 29" draw length...with the cracker one (452x) I get 261fps for a 465gr arrow (minimum legal weight for big game in my country)... with the astroflight one I get 262fps...according to my scale this one is just 0.3# above the carter's one but on the astroflight bow there is no speed button...so I have put on the astroflight bow 3 NS at each end at the same level that Mike did it on the bow he has prepared to me but I have got nothing of more on the astroflight one...not even one little fps...
> 
> so according to you what is my problem? please help me doc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Fact #1
> Different string materials weigh different amounts depending on the materials the fibers are made from and the amount of wax a material absorbs.
> Fact#2
> All bows perform best with a specific weight string and despite popular thought, speed can be lost by having too much weight or too little weight. This is what people are referring to when they are trying to "Grain out" their string (I should also note that where that weight is positioned on the string can also be critical).
> Fact #3
> Some bow and cam systems are more sensitive to string weight than others.
> 
> All this is to say that Astroflight has a different string density than 452X and because of this may require different weight on the string for it to be optimally weighted. Because Crackers used a certain combination on your 452X string you should not conclude that should be the best combo for your Astroflight string. Try using one more nok on each end. I believe Astroflight is a lighter material that absorbs lees wax (I could be wrong on this because as I've stated before I've not used this material in the past) so more weight should be required to get it to "grain out". If not try one less and change the positioning of the weights for better results. It may also be that the Astroflight string with what you have on it is the best you can do....no matter how many noks you use or where they are placed. Experimentation is the key. Same goes with your Astroflight string on your Destroyer.
> 
> I hope this helps you
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Gerhard

Here is the *M'Bogo* at long distance.

Only had a very limited time at the range yesterday as it was my daughter's birthday party.

2nd grouping at 60 yards


----------



## baldyhunter

That is one beautifull group!


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact #1
> Different string materials weigh different amounts depending on the materials the fibers are made from and the amount of wax a material absorbs.
> Fact#2
> All bows perform best with a specific weight string and despite popular thought, speed can be lost by having too much weight or too little weight. This is what people are referring to when they are trying to "Grain out" their string (I should also note that where that weight is positioned on the string can also be critical).
> Fact #3
> Some bow and cam systems are more sensitive to string weight than others.
> 
> All this is to say that Astroflight has a different string density than 452X and because of this may require different weight on the string for it to be optimally weighted. Because Crackers used a certain combination on your 452X string you should not conclude that should be the best combo for your Astroflight string. Try using one more nok on each end. I believe Astroflight is a lighter material that absorbs lees wax (I could be wrong on this because as I've stated before I've not used this material in the past) so more weight should be required to get it to "grain out". If not try one less and change the positioning of the weights for better results. It may also be that the Astroflight string with what you have on it is the best you can do....no matter how many noks you use or where they are placed. Experimentation is the key. Same goes with your Astroflight string on your Destroyer.
> 
> I hope this helps you
> 
> 
> 
> yes it helps a lot...thanks...I will try all of that this week...I am going to order too somme 452x to see what I can get with it!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes it helps a lot...thanks...I will try all of that this week...I am going to order too somme 452x to see what I can get with it!
> 
> 
> 
> If your thinking about 452X you may want to consider Trophy instead. It has all the advantages of 452X but is a little more durable/longer lasting. In my experimentation so far there is only a very, very slight speed decrease (1fps) if any.
> Ken
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## TozerBGood

Gerhard said:


> Here is the *M'Bogo* at long distance.
> 
> Only had a very limited time at the range yesterday as it was my daughter's birthday party.
> 
> 2nd grouping at 60 yards


Nice group Gerhard! Looks like one of those arrows must have hit a target softspot, and embedded the fletchings at some point. That's one thing I hate about the speed bows...I keep having to re-fletch! My Block target (you can see it in the pic above) is pretty well shot! I have it backed with some hard foam and plywood after that - to keep the fletchings from embedding in it. But I'm gonna need a new target for around the house. Thinking of making my own..rags stuffed in a box or something.


----------



## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> Nice group Gerhard! Looks like one of those arrows must have hit a target softspot, and embedded the fletchings at some point. That's one thing I hate about the speed bows...I keep having to re-fletch! My Block target (you can see it in the pic above) is pretty well shot! I have it backed with some hard foam and plywood after that - to keep the fletchings from embedding in it. But I'm gonna need a new target for around the house. Thinking of making my own..rags stuffed in a box or something.


I like the Morrell's Outdoor Range bag. It's only expensive once. After the 100$ initial investment I have re-covered it twice at a cost of 20 bucks and it lasts about two or three years between coverings. Should last another couple of years now since I just put on the new covering so I should be set for another couple of years. Heres the math.

140$ total investment for 7 years of use:
20$/year over seven years of life

That is a very inexpensive target!


----------



## TozerBGood

baldyhunter said:


> I like the Morrell's Outdoor Range bag. It's only expensive once. After the 100$ initial investment I have re-covered it twice at a cost of 20 bucks and it lasts about two or three years between coverings. Should last another couple of years now since I just put on the new covering so I should be set for another couple of years. Heres the math.
> 
> 140$ total investment for 7 years of use:
> 20$/year over seven years of life
> 
> That is a very inexpensive target!


We have bag targets at our club archery range (not sure of brand), but I can't use them, because they ruin my fletches. Is that because they aren't stuffed full enough...I don't know. They seem to be filled with some white fibrous cotton-like insulation inside that just gets wrapped around my embedded fletches - which just ruins the fletches. I also would get a few complete shoot throughs. I stopped using them a long time ago. What's the Morrell filled with?

The targets I use at the range look like this (but this one still is developing a bad soft spot in the middle now):

(this is a pic I took last dec09 at 80yds when I first got the destroyer and hadn't sighted in - not the best group - I've improved since then)


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your thinking about 452X you may want to consider Trophy instead. It has all the advantages of 452X but is a little more durable/longer lasting. In my experimentation so far there is only a very, very slight speed decrease (1fps) if any.
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> ok, I will do it....I have play with the NS today, and have finally succeeded to get 2fps of more at the fourth NS (nothing before!)...NS after NS I have increased them up to 7 per end without speed decreasing but without extra speed too...after hours on my bow finally I can't do better than 343fps IBO what it was at its factory speed (birth certificate), I am very disappointed...for letting my cables in the timing zone I have had to shorten my ATA to 32.16"...I will try to extend it with a longer string...my untwisted string was 62.44", according to you, what should be the good length for reaching the good ATA (32.62)?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> baldyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> foudarme said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok, I will do it....I have play with the NS today, and have finally succeeded to get 2fps of more at the fourth NS (nothing before!)...NS after NS I have increased them up to 7 per end without speed decreasing but without extra speed too...after hours on my bow finally I can't do better than 343fps IBO what it was at its factory speed (birth certificate), I am very disappointed...for letting my cables in the timing zone I have had to shorten my ATA to 32.16"...I will try to extend it with a longer string...my untwisted string was 62.44", according to you, what should be the good length for reaching the good ATA (32.62)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If speed is what your after make sure you only make the string with 20 strands of Trophy or 452X. When you do this 3 noks on both ends about 1/4" from the end of the serving should be optimum. I make the cables exactly as specified and make the string 1/8" longer than than the limb sticker. This should put your ATA where it should be (within 1/16" of factory specs). I use a twist rate of 1 twist per 1.5" of string length and usually get speeds as fast or slightly faster than the stock rigging.
> Ken
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> We have bag targets at our club archery range (not sure of brand), but I can't use them, because they ruin my fletches. Is that because they aren't stuffed full enough...I don't know. They seem to be filled with some white fibrous cotton-like insulation inside that just gets wrapped around my embedded fletches - which just ruins the fletches. I also would get a few complete shoot throughs. I stopped using them a long time ago. What's the Morrell filled with?
> 
> The targets I use at the range look like this (but this one still is developing a bad soft spot in the middle now):
> 
> (this is a pic I took last dec09 at 80yds when I first got the destroyer and hadn't sighted in - not the best group - I've improved since then)


They are filled with the white fibrous material amongst other things. Your packing a bit more punch than I am as well with the heavier arrow and longer draw length. My experience with these targets has been great though. I never burry the arrows to the fletchings untill they are ready to be recovered. When I recover them I add material to the bag and it seems like after each re-covering the target actually gets more durable as I add material. In the DIY section you can find an awesome thread on lifetime targets that you pack with your own filling. I may make one of these to use as my workshop target.
Ken


----------



## foudarme

ken....I put this evening 2 new self made split cables and tune my cams at your recommanded angle...with the split cable at the same length that the floating ones I have the good ATA and everything in the timing zone...can't understand why there is such a difference !!!!

the bad news is that the sun was go down at speed test's moment and my chrono battery was completly flat :angry:

I would have to wait for tomorrow for checking the speed :wink:


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> ken....I put this evening 2 new self made split cables and tune my cams at your recommanded angle...with the split cable at the same length that the floating ones I have the good ATA and everything in the timing zone...can't understand why there is such a difference !!!!
> 
> the bad news is that the sun was go down at speed test's moment and my chrono battery was completly flat :angry:
> 
> I would have to wait for tomorrow for checking the speed :wink:


I'm curious how it went? Did you use 20 strands of trophy on the string and 3 speed noks on each end? I like the timing on mine towards the back a little but still between the dots. How'd your speed test go?


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> I'm curious how it went? Did you use 20 strands of trophy on the string and 3 speed noks on each end? I like the timing on mine towards the back a little but still between the dots. How'd your speed test go?


no everything in astroflight, I only have this fiber actually...I order all my archery produces from the USA but it takes a lot for arriving once ordered! for these split yokes I have used 24 strands for the cables....I only earned 2fps (at the same DL and DW) but a lot of facilities for tuning in comparison with the previous floating yokes...that's something to see with the yoke bundle's diameter wich is now much more thiner and allow much more accurate twisting....


----------



## TozerBGood

foudarme said:


> no everything in astroflight, i only have this fiber actually...i order all my archery produces from the usa but it takes a lot for arriving once ordered! For these split yokes i have used 24 strands for the cables....i only earned 2fps (at the same dl and dw) but a lot of facilities for tuning in comparison with the previous floating yokes...that's something to see with the yoke bundle's diameter wich is now much more thiner and allow much more accurate twisting....


pics!


----------



## foudarme

TozerBGood said:


> pics!


I will do it ASAP...I am now on another bow, a hoyt Kobalt on which I have put some Z3 7.0 cams...I have finished the string and cables, but I still have to increase the length of the yoke which is a too short ...I am now at 318fps IBO with a too tight nock and a poor synch... I am targetting for a true 324 IBO (what was the speed of my first one that unfortunately I have sold last year) once I will have the good length and synch..


----------



## lil buck

*D340 & d350*

Hi Baldy Hunter just wanted to drop you a few lines and pics of the project D340 & D350. First they are awesome bows. Thank you for the directions on tuning the bows. My sons D340 at 30.50 draw length shots 348fps at 69.7 to 70.0 pounds and at 31.0 inches of draw length shots just as fast as my D350 unbelievable. My D350 at 30.0 inches of draw length 70.0 pounds shoots 354fps. I am very happy with the end results of these bows.


----------



## baldyhunter

Those are some beautiful rigs. I'ts awesome to hear about whole families that enjoy the archery bug. Looks like you got a lot of happy archers in your house!
Ken


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

How are the destroyers coming in as far as accurate draw lengths are concerned? A little long, short, etc?


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

lil buck said:


> Hi Baldy Hunter just wanted to drop you a few lines and pics of the project D340 & D350. First they are awesome bows. Thank you for the directions on tuning the bows. My sons D340 at 30.50 draw length shots 348fps at 69.7 to 70.0 pounds and at 31.0 inches of draw length shots just as fast as my D350 unbelievable. My D350 at 30.0 inches of draw length 70.0 pounds shoots 354fps. I am very happy with the end results of these bows.


That's smokin fast!


----------



## poppingrunt

MOBIGBUCKS said:


> That's smokin fast!


ya that is fast! what grain arrow are you shooting lil buck?


----------



## TozerBGood

MOBIGBUCKS said:


> How are the destroyers coming in as far as accurate draw lengths are concerned? A little long, short, etc?


My D350 set at 30" measures 30" on the draw board. I've posted the DFC I made for it several times on AT.


----------



## BayouBob

2 years ago I drove everybody nuts with all my questions while I was chasing 350 fps with my 82nd. Now it's time to do the same with my Destroyer 350. I don't have a press that will work on it yet so I have to make trips back and forth to my dealer to change things.
First question on the Destroyer. When I tried one in the shop the smooth draw really impressed me. My bow (60 lbs/30 inches) draws smoothly without any stacking until it rolls over into the valley. At that point there is such an abrupt drop off that no matter how steady I am trying to draw the bow the whole thing jerks as it rolls into the valley. If I wasn't using a flipper rest it would throw the arrow off the rest every time. How can I overcome this issue; no way to every make a stealthy draw on an animal with it jerking into the valley and the wall like this?


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

BayouBob said:


> 2 years ago I drove everybody nuts with all my questions while I was chasing 350 fps with my 82nd. Now it's time to do the same with my Destroyer 350. I don't have a press that will work on it yet so I have to make trips back and forth to my dealer to change things.
> First question on the Destroyer. When I tried one in the shop the smooth draw really impressed me. My bow (60 lbs/30 inches) draws smoothly without any stacking until it rolls over into the valley. At that point there is such an abrupt drop off that no matter how steady I am trying to draw the bow the whole thing jerks as it rolls into the valley. If I wasn't using a flipper rest it would throw the arrow off the rest every time. How can I overcome this issue; no way to every make a stealthy draw on an animal with it jerking into the valley and the wall like this?


I know what you mean but the bow i shot at the shop was too short for me. I believe the lack of draw length made it a little more abrupy into the valley. Is yours perfect for your drawlength? Also what poundage are you pulling? I think overtime you will probably get used to it and willl never notice it.


----------



## poppingrunt

some info i got from baldyhunter was If your cams arent timed right, and your draw stops dont hit simultaneously it will worsen the drop into the vally, and cause the backwall to seem spungy. Also if you have a drop away rest and it isnt raising in the last inch or less, this can also worsen then drop if you will call it that into the vally. I found that the more i drew it the more control i had when drawing it, as my muscles got used to it. Try to draw slow and smooth the whole way, this helped me.


----------



## BayouBob

I used to draw 31.5 but I trained myself to draw 30 several years ago. (I'm 6'5" with arms like an orangutan.) I haven't put the bow on my drawboard yet to check the cam rotation. Like I said when I tried the first one a few months ago in the shop the draw was smooth all the way through. It was a 70/29 backed off to about 62. Has anyone noticed anything unusual I should watch for when I put it on the draw board?


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

BayouBob said:


> I used to draw 31.5 but I trained myself to draw 30 several years ago. (I'm 6'5" with arms like an orangutan.) I haven't put the bow on my drawboard yet to check the cam rotation. Like I said when I tried the first one a few months ago in the shop the draw was smooth all the way through. It was a 70/29 backed off to about 62. Has anyone noticed anything unusual I should watch for when I put it on the draw board?


Seriously...I bet it is because your draw length is quite a bit shorter. When I drew back one that was closer to my DL, it was much smoother into the valley.


----------



## baldyhunter

BayouBob said:


> 2 years ago I drove everybody nuts with all my questions while I was chasing 350 fps with my 82nd. Now it's time to do the same with my Destroyer 350. I don't have a press that will work on it yet so I have to make trips back and forth to my dealer to change things.
> First question on the Destroyer. When I tried one in the shop the smooth draw really impressed me. My bow (60 lbs/30 inches) draws smoothly without any stacking until it rolls over into the valley. At that point there is such an abrupt drop off that no matter how steady I am trying to draw the bow the whole thing jerks as it rolls into the valley. If I wasn't using a flipper rest it would throw the arrow off the rest every time. How can I overcome this issue; no way to every make a stealthy draw on an animal with it jerking into the valley and the wall like this?


I agree that this is what happens when people drop their draw length on speed bows. They have a harsh drop anyways but you're used to pulling 60 lbs at that point in the draw cycle and now your only pulling 12...feels like your going to chuck that arrow straight behind you LOL. It'll just take a while to get used to. As far as the tuning goes the closer that bow is to synchronized at full draw the more abruptly that drop becomes! Both cams are working together and dropping into the valley at the same time. This is how you will achieve the most performance and the most solid wall. One viable option for you is to actually mis-synchronize the cams a bit so the drop is less harsh. One cam will drop ahead of the other which makes that drop less harsh. If you go too far expect a mushy wall and slightly less performance and the valley itself will deminish a little (not the drop mind you just the bottom of the valley). To try have your dealer ****** the bottom cam by putting one full turn in the cable that controls it. This will have your top cam hitting a little ahead of the bottom and should make the drop feel a little more manageable and give you a little more cushion at the wall but don't expect a huge difference. I wouldn't mis-synch the cams more than a twist or so as beyond that you can expect some performance deterioration, a mushy wall, and less let-off.
Ken


----------



## poppingrunt

poppingrunt said:


> some info i got from baldyhunter was If your cams arent timed right, and your draw stops dont hit simultaneously it will worsen the drop into the vally, and cause the backwall to seem spungy. Also if you have a drop away rest and it isnt raising in the last inch or less, this can also worsen then drop if you will call it that into the vally. I found that the more i drew it the more control i had when drawing it, as my muscles got used to it. Try to draw slow and smooth the whole way, this helped me.


Sorry baldy must have misunderstood ya:zip:


----------



## baldyhunter

poppingrunt said:


> Sorry baldy must have misunderstood ya:zip:


I'ts all good...archers helping archers right! you had most of it right and passed on some usefull info.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

BayouBob said:


> 2 years ago I drove everybody nuts with all my questions while I was chasing 350 fps with my 82nd. Now it's time to do the same with my Destroyer 350. I don't have a press that will work on it yet so I have to make trips back and forth to my dealer to change things.
> First question on the Destroyer. When I tried one in the shop the smooth draw really impressed me. My bow (60 lbs/30 inches) draws smoothly without any stacking until it rolls over into the valley. At that point there is such an abrupt drop off that no matter how steady I am trying to draw the bow the whole thing jerks as it rolls into the valley. If I wasn't using a flipper rest it would throw the arrow off the rest every time. How can I overcome this issue; no way to every make a stealthy draw on an animal with it jerking into the valley and the wall like this?



2 other things to help you maximize that DL...
1 make sure those cables are as tight as they can be. Set the timing so the cables are crossing the back timing mark. I've timed them so they are actually centered on that mark. letoff was fine and no problems. This should give you an AMO 30.5" draw.
2 This may seem unrelated but try moving your peep sight up the string 1/2 inch. Too many people have it too low IMO. This'll lower your anchor a bit and keep you from pulling the string up into your face. It will also make the DL feel longer which could benefit you.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

lil buck said:


> Hi Baldy Hunter just wanted to drop you a few lines and pics of the project D340 & D350. First they are awesome bows. Thank you for the directions on tuning the bows. My sons D340 at 30.50 draw length shots 348fps at 69.7 to 70.0 pounds and at 31.0 inches of draw length shots just as fast as my D350 unbelievable. My D350 at 30.0 inches of draw length 70.0 pounds shoots 354fps. I am very happy with the end results of these bows.


Henry,
Looks like we share favorite grips. I just got a black/silver (timberwolf) torqueless grip for mine. Medium wrist as well. Now I won't have to worry about the fletchings hitting my fingers so much!
Ken


----------



## lil buck

*D350 & D340 tiller*

Baldy (Ken) how are you setting the tiller even or a little under not having any trouble just woundering when I set mine it always seems to end up were it wants to like the pads under the front of the limbs move and set it were it wants it to be.


----------



## lil buck

*Re Bow grip*



baldyhunter said:


> Henry,
> Looks like we share favorite grips. I just got a black/silver (timberwolf) torqueless grip for mine. Medium wrist as well. Now I won't have to worry about the fletchings hitting my fingers so much!
> Ken


Yes you are right one of the best investments I made. What a difference in how it handles.


----------



## BayouBob

Thanks Ken, I'll twist up the cables a little to move the timing marks. I"m 5 years into shooting at 30 or 30.5 so it's not a reaction to a draw length change. I am about 95% through rehabing a rotator cuff so I realize my draw motion is a little stiff still. The drawing motion I use came from my Dad's teaching. He taught me to point the arrow at the target and make a straight back smooth draw without skying the bow or moving my arms out of their parallel position. It is the hardest way to come to full draw but if you do it right you can do it while a deer is looking at you and from it's viewpoint there is virtually no movement. When I get a new press that I can work on a Destroyer with I'll do more experimenting on my own and reporting the results but right now I'm trying to cram several lessons in for each trip to the shop to use my dealer's press.


----------



## Pizonarcher

*62xs braided serving (center)on 452x slipping up*

I picked up some 62xs braided serving made up a string for my destroyer with 452x & tried the 62xs for center serving . Using a Beiter winder, serving the string twisted up & at 280# , serving as tight as I can without the string turning & using some Bohning string glue.
I was having problems hitting low after moving sight probably 3/8 of an inch over 2 days, thought my peep was moving but found out the center serving was moving up & after two days my D-loop has moved up 5/16 of an inch. Never had a center serving move like that before. I served with 3-d on the cam area with no slipping.
I reserved with diamonback & ended up messing up the string( don't ask) 
For now I put the factory string back on to shoot next weekend at 2nd leg IBO triple crown & buy the way pretty good factory strings.
Anyone try this serving on 452x ?.


----------



## baldyhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> I picked up some 62xs braided serving made up a string for my destroyer with 452x & tried the 62xs for center serving . Using a Beiter winder, serving the string twisted up & at 280# , serving as tight as I can without the string turning & using some Bohning string glue.
> I was having problems hitting low after moving sight probably 3/8 of an inch over 2 days, thought my peep was moving but found out the center serving was moving up & after two days my D-loop has moved up 5/16 of an inch. Never had a center serving move like that before. I served with 3-d on the cam area with no slipping.
> I reserved with diamonback & ended up messing up the string( don't ask)
> For now I put the factory string back on to shoot next weekend at 2nd leg IBO triple crown & buy the way pretty good factory strings.
> Anyone try this serving on 452x ?.


I've never had one slip that bad but occasionally I've had 62XS seperate at the D-loop. I've just started using only Halo for end and center servings and I put it on at 325 lbs and set my serving tool pretty tight. You just have to check for string rotation after the center is applied to make sure it is not too tight. I'd recommend you try Halo for the center, scuff the string up and get rid of as much wax as possible in that area. Also, make the center at least 4" and apply liquid lock liberally.
Ken


----------



## Pizonarcher

baldyhunter said:


> I've never had one slip that bad but occasionally I've had 62XS seperate at the D-loop. I've just started using only Halo for end and center servings and I put it on at 325 lbs and set my serving tool pretty tight. You just have to check for string rotation after the center is applied to make sure it is not too tight. I'd recommend you try Halo for the center, scuff the string up and get rid of as much wax as possible in that area. Also, make the center at least 4" and apply liquid lock liberally.
> Ken


I do have some Halo in .021 that I will try. 
As you said, Quote"occasionally I've had 62XS seperate at the D-loop". 
Yes I did notice below the d-loop a space about 1/8. & I was twisting my d-loop some to aling the peep which did not help, may of loosened the serving enough to get it starting to move.
What do you scuff up the string with & remove the wax with ?.


----------



## baldyhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> I do have some Halo in .021 that I will try.
> As you said, Quote"occasionally I've had 62XS seperate at the D-loop".
> Yes I did notice below the d-loop a space about 1/8. & I was twisting my d-loop some to aling the peep which did not help, may of loosened the serving enough to get it starting to move.
> What do you scuff up the string with & remove the wax with ?.


Before serving take a piece of your 62-XS or maybe some old diamondback you have laying around and wrap it 3 times around the string then pull the ends as tight as possible and pull the material up and down the string vigorously in that area. This will remove the wax and ruff the area up a bit. Also, you can buy some 3M spray adhesive at Wal Mart and apply that to the area by dobbing it on with a rag after removing the wax and immediately before serving. Apply the Halo tight. I use .021 with 20 strand of Trophy or 452-X and get a good fit. If your using more than 20 strands than .019 will fit better.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

baldyhunter said:


> Before serving take a piece of your 62-XS or maybe some old diamondback you have laying around and wrap it 3 times around the string then pull the ends as tight as possible and pull the material up and down the string vigorously in that area. This will remove the wax and ruff the area up a bit. Also, you can buy some 3M spray adhesive at Wal Mart and apply that to the area by dobbing it on with a rag after removing the wax and immediately before serving. Apply the Halo tight. I use .021 with 20 strand of Trophy or 452-X and get a good fit. If your using more than 20 strands than .019 will fit better.
> Ken


I'm sorry I got that wrong. What I meant to say was that .024 works best with 20 strands 452-X and Trophy. And .021 works best for 22 strands or more.
Sorry
Ken


----------



## lil buck

*Nice strings Baldy Hunter*

I'm really looking forward to setting up my sons D340 with these strings. I will post pic's once I get them on the bow and set up. Thank you


----------



## baldyhunter

lil buck said:


> I'm really looking forward to setting up my sons D340 with these strings. I will post pic's once I get them on the bow and set up. Thank you


Let me know if you need any help at all with the setup or tuning.
Ken


----------



## dwight257

Hello everybody, new to this site and love it so far. I have been following this thread with great interest. I recently purchased a d350 and have a few questions about setup. It is currently set at 65 lbs and 27" draw. I tried shooting a few 27 1/2" Beman classic 400 and they seem a little weak. I kept getting a nock low and left condition. Should I cut down those some more or should I just try some 340's with this bow? Also baldyhunter(and others) thanks for all the tuning info. I have tried to do a preliminary tune according to your suggestions but I don't have it exactly as you recomended yet. My top cam is about perfect as for at-brace angle but my bottom cam is a little too far left I think. My timing is pretty close but a hare off too. Is it important for everything to be absolutly perfect in order for it to tune correctly? Its a hour drive to the shop where I bought the bow and I think his patience is wearing a little thin.
One more thing I have a Ripchord rest on it now and I can't get it set up so the arrow is lined up with the center of the berger hole. Is this important or should I be able to get it shooting this way. I always have had bows in the past set up right down the center of the bow(berger hole). Thanks for any help.


----------



## Dogz

dwight257, I also started out with 400's thats what all the charts called out for. I bought ontarget2 program and it recommended a 340 spine for my set up( D340 at 66#) they fly great. I would recommend that you go to a 340 spine. The charts don't really figuire in how hard or aggressive the Destroyer cams are IMO.


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## dwight257

Dogz, thanks for the quick reply. That's kind of what I was thinking and had heard that about other aggresive cam bows but wasn't sure with the chart showing 65# being on the border line between 400 - 340. Should I cut the 340's to a short lenght to fit my rest or slowly cut them back to dial in the spine like with trad bows? I am coming back to compounds after playing with longbows for the past 5 or 6 years and am familiar with the bare shaft planing method that works for traditional bows.


----------



## baldyhunter

dwight257 said:


> Hello everybody, new to this site and love it so far. I have been following this thread with great interest. I recently purchased a d350 and have a few questions about setup. It is currently set at 65 lbs and 27" draw. I tried shooting a few 27 1/2" Beman classic 400 and they seem a little weak. I kept getting a nock low and left condition. Should I cut down those some more or should I just try some 340's with this bow? Also baldyhunter(and others) thanks for all the tuning info. I have tried to do a preliminary tune according to your suggestions but I don't have it exactly as you recomended yet. My top cam is about perfect as for at-brace angle but my bottom cam is a little too far left I think. My timing is pretty close but a hare off too. Is it important for everything to be absolutly perfect in order for it to tune correctly? Its a hour drive to the shop where I bought the bow and I think his patience is wearing a little thin.
> One more thing I have a Ripchord rest on it now and I can't get it set up so the arrow is lined up with the center of the berger hole. Is this important or should I be able to get it shooting this way. I always have had bows in the past set up right down the center of the bow(berger hole). Thanks for any help.


I would suggest 340's for that bow and if you plan on taking the poundage up beyond that 300's would fly great as well. Spine can be an issue with compounds but usually a healthy assortments of spines can be tuned well with these bows. In that regard they are different than what your used to with traditional archery so cutting the arrow inch by inch is a little overkill IMO. I'd pick a 340 shaft and ask to get a length recommendation from TAP or OT2 (software) and then trust that and get it to tune for your bow using other methods. Do things have to be perfect to tune?...not really but it helps do go about things in a slow and methodical way in order to keep the adjustments straight and understand what you need to do next. It'd be nice if the shop is that far away if you could buy a portable press then I'd help you tune it right down the center. As long as the arrow is level through the berger holes or slightly nock high. Let me know if I can give you direct advice on specific questions or if you get stumped.
Ken


----------



## TozerBGood

dwight257 said:


> Hello everybody, new to this site and love it so far. I have been following this thread with great interest. I recently purchased a d350 and have a few questions about setup. It is currently set at 65 lbs and 27" draw. I tried shooting a few 27 1/2" Beman classic 400 and they seem a little weak. I kept getting a nock low and left condition. Should I cut down those some more or should I just try some 340's with this bow? Also baldyhunter(and others) thanks for all the tuning info. I have tried to do a preliminary tune according to your suggestions but I don't have it exactly as you recomended yet. My top cam is about perfect as for at-brace angle but my bottom cam is a little too far left I think. My timing is pretty close but a hare off too. Is it important for everything to be absolutly perfect in order for it to tune correctly? Its a hour drive to the shop where I bought the bow and I think his patience is wearing a little thin.
> One more thing I have a Ripchord rest on it now and I can't get it set up so the arrow is lined up with the center of the berger hole. Is this important or should I be able to get it shooting this way. I always have had bows in the past set up right down the center of the bow(berger hole). Thanks for any help.


TAP shows arrow is definitely too weak, and shows your arrows to be just under 400gr (with 100gr field points). It also shows 340's to be perfectly spined, and approx 23 to 24 gr increase from what you have and about 8 fps slower. You should be seeing close to 270 fps with the 400's which is not too bad for a 27" draw.

Also, with your ripchord rest, not sure I understand why you can't get rest adjusted so arrow lines up with berger holes. You kinda lost me there.

But assuming you get that figured out (combination of anglinging your rest up at the mounting bolt, and then adjusting your placement of the pull cord so that the dropaway flipper is all the way up at the last couple of inches in the draw - that should do it.

Finally, if you're intereted in some lighter arrows (since your buying them anyways) I recommend Victory V-Force 350s. I think Slippy Field sells them on AT for one of the best prices I've seen. They are lighter - 368gr if you can do 26.5" (which should work with your dropaway - just move it towards the string and it should work). With that bow, 368 gr should be fine for deer, and target. Your arrow speed creeps upt to 278fps with that setup, but I'd go with the heavier arrow if your hunting elk though.

Hope it helps.


----------



## Rock Steady

To make lining up your arrow with the berger holes a little easier I removed the rest and put two bolts in the holes and then used a small straight edge and marked two fine black lines across my riser in line with the top and bottom of the bolts with a fine permanent marker, you could do it in pencil if you don't want the line there permanently but I like to use it as a quick visual that everything is still where it should be.


----------



## dwight257

Hey all thanks for the help. 

Ken' just ordered some 340's tonight. As for cutting a little at a time I realized after posting that with compounds being absolute center shot they have high spine tolerance. Trying to get my mind back into compounds. I'm not familiar with those software programs but I'll do some research on that. I'm also seriously considering getting a press so I can do my own work and am looking into that as well. You mentioned one in a post awhile back that is advertised on this site, could you refresh my memory with the name of that site?
We got it pretty close at the shop but it can be adjusted a little closer I feel and I am going to head back there latter this week and ask him to make a few more tweaks for me. After the money I spent in there I feel they should be willing to help get it right initially and after that I can do my own work. Actually the guy who is the archery guru there is pretty cool about everything and a great guy I just don't want to wear out my welcome so to speak. As for my rest not lining up with the berger hole what I mean is with the launcher arm as low as it will go on the shelf in the down position, when it is raised to the up position the bottom of the arrow is bisecting the berger hole about 1/3 up from the bottom of the hole. Hope that makes sense. Actually I would like to raise it if anything because when it snaps down it hits the shelf with a distinct snapping noise.


----------



## Rock Steady

dwight257 said:


> Hey all thanks for the help.
> I'm also seriously considering getting a press so I can do my own work and am looking into that as well. You mentioned one in a post awhile back that is advertised on this site, could you refresh my memory with the name of that site?


Do you mean the portable NiteHawk?

http://www.nitehawkarchery.com/


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## lil buck

*Baldy Hunter, Strings & D340 AWESOME*

Baldy Hunter you sure do got the recipe for the strings on the Destroyers not only do you do an awesome job on the strings, you get an excellent look and more speed to boot. The D340 tuned right in shoots like a dream my son is grinning from ear to ear after the set up was done he hid it in his bedroom but after he left for school I found it HA HA I just got to put it back before he gets home, aw its all in fun I know if I would of said something he would of left it out for me. Thank you very much (P.S. I know the date is messed up on the on pic my wife was adjusting the camera to try and get the best adjustment out of the camera but as you can see the adjustment did not help.)


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> Henry,
> Now I won't have to worry about the fletchings hitting my fingers so much!
> Ken


I have sometimes the same problem !


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

I am still waiting for bow to come in; I was curious how the stock strings are coming in on the D350? Think they will last a season?


----------



## poppingrunt

MOBIGBUCKS said:


> I am still waiting for bow to come in; I was curious how the stock strings are coming in on the D350? Think they will last a season?


stock strings will definatly last a season and more with proper maint. Bowtech from what i have heard has some of the best stock strings out there.:thumbs_up


----------



## dwight257

TozerBGood said:


> TAP shows arrow is definitely too weak, and shows your arrows to be just under 400gr (with 100gr field points). It also shows 340's to be perfectly spined, and approx 23 to 24 gr increase from what you have and about 8 fps slower. You should be seeing close to 270 fps with the 400's which is not too bad for a 27" draw.
> 
> Also, with your ripchord rest, not sure I understand why you can't get rest adjusted so arrow lines up with berger holes. You kinda lost me there.
> 
> But assuming you get that figured out (combination of anglinging your rest up at the mounting bolt, and then adjusting your placement of the pull cord so that the dropaway flipper is all the way up at the last couple of inches in the draw - that should do it.
> 
> Finally, if you're intereted in some lighter arrows (since your buying them anyways) I recommend Victory V-Force 350s. I think Slippy Field sells them on AT for one of the best prices I've seen. They are lighter - 368gr if you can do 26.5" (which should work with your dropaway - just move it towards the string and it should work). With that bow, 368 gr should be fine for deer, and target. Your arrow speed creeps upt to 278fps with that setup, but I'd go with the heavier arrow if your hunting elk though.
> 
> Hope it helps.


Thanks that's good to know. My 400's actually weight 425 gr. fletched on my scale. I was hoping for 280-290+ fps range but 270 is pretty quick compared to what I'm used to. How much would an inch of draw affect arrow speed approximately?

I will try angling the Ripchord down in back to see if that will lower the launcher arm. I was under the impression it needs to be level but I guess it should work out of level. I had it timed to lift (or fall) at the last inch or so of draw and it does seem to make a slight difference in the fell of the draw.

Unless I get extremely lucky and draw an elk tag here in Cali I will be hunting deer only. This year anyway. Will look into the Victory's too.


----------



## dwight257

Rock Steady, great idea thanks!


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I have sometimes the same problem !


That Torquless grip took care of that problem. I can now completely relax my bow hand all the way through shot execution without worrying about the fletchings hitting my fingers. I got the medium wrist and it work fantastic!


----------



## baldyhunter

lil buck said:


> Baldy Hunter you sure do got the recipe for the strings on the Destroyers not only do you do an awesome job on the strings, you get an excellent look and more speed to boot. The D340 tuned right in shoots like a dream my son is grinning from ear to ear after the set up was done he hid it in his bedroom but after he left for school I found it HA HA I just got to put it back before he gets home, aw its all in fun I know if I would of said something he would of left it out for me. Thank you very much (P.S. I know the date is messed up on the on pic my wife was adjusting the camera to try and get the best adjustment out of the camera but as you can see the adjustment did not help.)


I love that color combo on the destroyers but it even looks better on the black ones! Glad your happy.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

dwight257 said:


> Hey all thanks for the help.
> 
> Ken' just ordered some 340's tonight. As for cutting a little at a time I realized after posting that with compounds being absolute center shot they have high spine tolerance. Trying to get my mind back into compounds. I'm not familiar with those software programs but I'll do some research on that. I'm also seriously considering getting a press so I can do my own work and am looking into that as well. You mentioned one in a post awhile back that is advertised on this site, could you refresh my memory with the name of that site?
> We got it pretty close at the shop but it can be adjusted a little closer I feel and I am going to head back there latter this week and ask him to make a few more tweaks for me. After the money I spent in there I feel they should be willing to help get it right initially and after that I can do my own work. Actually the guy who is the archery guru there is pretty cool about everything and a great guy I just don't want to wear out my welcome so to speak. As for my rest not lining up with the berger hole what I mean is with the launcher arm as low as it will go on the shelf in the down position, when it is raised to the up position the bottom of the arrow is bisecting the berger hole about 1/3 up from the bottom of the hole. Hope that makes sense. Actually I would like to raise it if anything because when it snaps down it hits the shelf with a distinct snapping noise.


Try to get the rest as close to level through the berger holes as possible. To take care of the "snap" when it hits your shelf put a layer of thin moleskin on your shelf where it is going to hit.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

dwight257 said:


> Thanks that's good to know. My 400's actually weight 425 gr. fletched on my scale. I was hoping for 280-290+ fps range but 270 is pretty quick compared to what I'm used to. How much would an inch of draw affect arrow speed approximately?
> 
> I will try angling the Ripchord down in back to see if that will lower the launcher arm. I was under the impression it needs to be level but I guess it should work out of level. I had it timed to lift (or fall) at the last inch or so of draw and it does seem to make a slight difference in the fell of the draw.
> 
> Unless I get extremely lucky and draw an elk tag here in Cali I will be hunting deer only. This year anyway. Will look into the Victory's too.


One inch of draw equals about 10 fps on these bows.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

lil buck said:


> Baldy Hunter you sure do got the recipe for the strings on the Destroyers not only do you do an awesome job on the strings, you get an excellent look and more speed to boot. The D340 tuned right in shoots like a dream my son is grinning from ear to ear after the set up was done he hid it in his bedroom but after he left for school I found it HA HA I just got to put it back before he gets home, aw its all in fun I know if I would of said something he would of left it out for me. Thank you very much (P.S. I know the date is messed up on the on pic my wife was adjusting the camera to try and get the best adjustment out of the camera but as you can see the adjustment did not help.)


Forgot to add....Nice Shooting!!


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## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> That Torquless grip took care of that problem. I can now completely relax my bow hand all the way through shot execution without worrying about the fletchings hitting my fingers. I got the medium wrist and it work fantastic!


can you get the same result with the side plate model or only the full grip one?


----------



## Drifter0678

I have side plates from torqueless grips and they are awesome...


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## deerheaven

foudarme said:


> can you get the same result with the side plate model or only the full grip one?


my question too?


----------



## lil buck

*D350 Grip*

Baldy Hunter (Ken) On the grip I really like mine and my son likes his but one thing is for sure. The full grip style sure does shorten up your draw 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch thats were my big change came from with my draw length I was right on the boarder line till I changed my grip now my draw is to short but you gave the remedy for that one its amazing how adjustable the bows are a little twist here and there and your ready to go. On another note I talked to the dealer and he is going to order for my daughter a 40# to 50# black ops D350 I asked him twice because I didnt think you could get them in that low of a poundage. Thanks again for all your help! Happy Shooten


----------



## foudarme

Drifter0678 said:


> I have side plates from torqueless grips and they are awesome...


do they shorten your draw length too?...the idea to increase my draw stop of half an inch is quite exciting!


----------



## foudarme

ken, 

on your 8125 string what is the exact length from the very end of the cam and your first nock speed button? how many of them have you put on your string?

thanks

jean


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## foudarme

deerheaven said:


> my question too?


I directly asked the question to the producer, there's the answers:

- The side plates: will actually increase the DL very slightly over the factory grip since you will be shooting directly off the metal riser.
- low wrist: The grip should not change the DL anywhere close to 1/2". The thickness of the wood on a low wrist grip is around 1/4 inch and if you subtract the thickness of the stock plastic grip you will have a change of less than 1/4 inch. The bow is factory low wrist.
- med wrist: If our medium wrist grip was put on the bow and shot using the correct wrist placement, then you would maybe se close to the 1/2".


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> ken,
> 
> on your 8125 string what is the exact length from the very end of the cam and your first nock speed button? how many of them have you put on your string?
> 
> thanks
> 
> jean


I actually have them in the same position as my Trophy and 452X strings. I just have one more for a total of four on each end.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> can you get the same result with the side plate model or only the full grip one?


If your fletchings are hitting your fingers then going to side plates will not help. You need to change the angle of your wrist to make your fingers drop when you relax them. I use a medium wrist style for this reason. I also like to shoot with a completely relaxed bow hand and let the wrist strap catch the bow after each shot.
Ken


----------



## The Phantom

*I don't believe it*

BH and FP won't have the same POI, just read all the threads that say so! :set1_rolf2:


----------



## The Phantom

*I don't believe it*

BH and FP won't have the same POI, just read all the threads that say so! :set1_rolf2:


Great job and post


----------



## The Phantom

*I don't believe it*

BH and FP won't have the same POI, just read all the threads that say so! :set1_rolf2:


Great job and post.


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> If your fletchings are hitting your fingers then going to side plates will not help. You need to change the angle of your wrist to make your fingers drop when you relax them. I use a medium wrist style for this reason. I also like to shoot with a completely relaxed bow hand and let the wrist strap catch the bow after each shot.
> Ken


I will take a med wrist full grip...I had one on my monster and enjoyed it...for the speed buttons do you remember your length between the end of the cam and the first nock button ?


----------



## logan87

hi guys
im typing this out of south africa and id like to get some advice from you guys
i built a set of strings and cables for my bow out of 452x.both are 20 strands but im not getting the speed i got with the stock rig.the stock rig gave me 319fps with a 436gr arrow @ 30" draw.the new rig is only giving me 315.the timing has been sorted out and on the stock rig i had silencers.any advice?


----------



## baldyhunter

Speed nocks mean a lot to this bow! Do you have three at each end placed where the factory ones were?


----------



## baldyhunter

The Phantom said:


> BH and FP won't have the same POI, just read all the threads that say so! :set1_rolf2:
> 
> 
> Great job and post.


Isn't it funny how people just give up on tuning and buy into all that garbage. It takes a little knowledge and effort but is something everyone can do.


----------



## wilkersonhunter

baldyhunter said:


> I may start selling 8125 strings for this bow. To start they'll be factory colors to match the cables so all someone would have to purchase would be the string for the performance boost. They'll all be made through a longer production process and be pre-stretched to get a stable 8125 string. Halo servings to boot. Right now I'm just trying to guage interest in the project.
> 
> PM me if interested. I'd rather sell to experienced archers who understand the trade off for 8125 strings, but I can promise these'll be some of the best made.
> Ken


how much speed will i gain over the factory strings?


----------



## logan87

Baldy could you pm me the costs of your strings and cables please.would it be possible to ship to south africa?


----------



## baldyhunter

wilkersonhunter said:


> how much speed will i gain over the factory strings?


Honestly, very little over Trophy which I believe is a far superior material. I've kind of given up on the 8125 project and pretty much moved almost entirely to Trophy which is more stable, resists stretch better, and is quieter. I can usually pick up a few fps with the Trophy over the stock strings but the added durability is the primary benefit.
Ken


----------



## wilkersonhunter

so how long will my stock strings last under normal use?


----------



## baldyhunter

wilkersonhunter said:


> so how long will my stock strings last under normal use?


It really depends on how much you shoot the bow and how much you're OK with fuzzing. They are made from 452X which is a great material but fuzzes up quickly. The area of most wear on these particular bows is on the cables where they contact the roller guards. I've already dealt with people that have had issues in that area already (less than a year). So it's really hard to answer your question honestly. The factory strings are good they just take a little more break in time as they aren't stretched as long as most custom string makers. And the dependability is good as well, it just fuzzes up quicker than Trophy and the roller servings aren't as dependable as Halo. 
Ken


----------



## wilkersonhunter

what makes the strings and cables fuzz up?


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

baldyhunter said:


> It really depends on how much you shoot the bow and how much you're OK with fuzzing. They are made from 452X which is a great material but fuzzes up quickly. The area of most wear on these particular bows is on the cables where they contact the roller guards. I've already dealt with people that have had issues in that area already (less than a year). So it's really hard to answer your question honestly. The factory strings are good they just take a little more break in time as they aren't stretched as long as most custom string makers. And the dependability is good as well, it just fuzzes up quicker than Trophy and the roller servings aren't as dependable as Halo.
> Ken


Ken,

Do the factory strings stretch enough to put the bow out of tune? If so, after how amny shots should we ceck things? I would like to get through bowseason with mine atleast...THen maybe get some strings from you buddy!!!:darkbeer:


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

wilkersonhunter said:


> what makes the strings and cables fuzz up?


I think it is just the 452X material.


----------



## baldyhunter

MOBIGBUCKS said:


> Ken,
> 
> Do the factory strings stretch enough to put the bow out of tune? If so, after how amny shots should we ceck things? I would like to get through bowseason with mine atleast...THen maybe get some strings from you buddy!!!:darkbeer:


I'd double check the factory strings after about a month or so of heavy shooting and then bring everything back in spec and tune. I've personally seen some loose almost 2 pounds of peek weight and go out 3/16 or so on ATA after some heavy shooting. The good news is after that first movement they become very stable. With a good aftermarket set that settling is just done much quicker so you can get everything tuned and set in a much shorter period of time. I think as long as your roller guard servings hold up you'll be fine through this season and they really are great strings (I believe the best factory strings!). To your question though I'd double check all the specs and get everything twisted back in on the factory strings after about a month of heavy shooting and they should remain stable from there.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

wilkersonhunter said:


> what makes the strings and cables fuzz up?


There is a brittle component to 452X called vectran (spelling ?). It adds stability but is more brittle and prone to wear which causes the fuzz. The Trophy also contains this material but has Gore performance fiber added which helps lubricate the fiber and makes them less prone to wear.


----------



## KODIAK JOE

Greetings Ken, I just picked up a 340 and am interested in setup and tuning it myself. I've been reading (and rereading, and rereading) this thread trying to grasp the concept and theory of getting this bow to shoot bullet holes.

Other articles I've read have talk of tiller adjustment as the first step in, or part of the process, of tuning. Having the limbs balanced and pulling equally makes sence to me. I'm woundering what your thoughts are on tiller adjustment as I have not seen you mention it.

Your discription is so indepth and informative, really appreciate the info. How about a "Destroyer Tuning Video" in your spare time!!


----------



## poppingrunt

KODIAK JOE said:


> Greetings Ken, I just picked up a 340 and am interested in setup and tuning it myself. I've been reading (and rereading, and rereading) this thread trying to grasp the concept and theory of getting this bow to shoot bullet holes.
> 
> Other articles I've read have talk of tiller adjustment as the first step in, or part of the process, of tuning. Having the limbs balanced and pulling equally makes sence to me. I'm woundering what your thoughts are on tiller adjustment as I have not seen you mention it.
> 
> Your discription is so indepth and informative, really appreciate the info. How about a "Destroyer Tuning Video" in your spare time!!


Ill second the video thing, that would be very cool!


----------



## lpv77

I just built my press and draw board. I have read the entire post on tuning the destroyer. i am still slightly confused. On set up, dead center is 7/8" from berger holes? Are you setting nock height at 90*? My pro shop had twisted one of my yoke sides. Im not sure which one or how many times, Do I have to get them back to factory spec prior to starting the procedure? What is the twist amount from factory? The only initial cam lean adjustment is done at rest to about 1 inch above center serving? If i have tears when paper tuning, I only adjust the top cam or both cams? What is the diff. between timing and syncronization? 
I apologise for all the questions, Im more of a hands on guy then a reading comprehension type guy, lol...
Vinny


----------



## strk3

*dang*

i really want to do all of this on my 60lb 350 but after 100 shots and a little twist here and there my bow shoots so good!! ex. 5575 with 100gn tip 4inch vanes and 27.5 in arrows its shooting 302 and perfect bullet holes the rest is up to me and i stink ha but thanks for all the info you guys are really sharp


----------



## TozerBGood

KODIAK JOE said:


> Greetings Ken, I just picked up a 340 and am interested in setup and tuning it myself. I've been reading (and rereading, and rereading) this thread trying to grasp the concept and theory of getting this bow to shoot bullet holes.
> 
> Other articles I've read have talk of tiller adjustment as the first step in, or part of the process, of tuning. Having the limbs balanced and pulling equally makes sence to me. I'm woundering what your thoughts are on tiller adjustment as I have not seen you mention it.
> 
> Your discription is so indepth and informative, really appreciate the info. How about a "Destroyer Tuning Video" in your spare time!!


Baldy - Here a thought:
If you did actually find time and make a video you could probably sell em for $20EA. But you'd probably need to put a hold harmless disclaimer with it for folks who somehow screwed their bows up doing something wrong. 

Sounds negative I know, but just a thought.


----------



## baldyhunter

KODIAK JOE said:


> Greetings Ken, I just picked up a 340 and am interested in setup and tuning it myself. I've been reading (and rereading, and rereading) this thread trying to grasp the concept and theory of getting this bow to shoot bullet holes.
> 
> Other articles I've read have talk of tiller adjustment as the first step in, or part of the process, of tuning. Having the limbs balanced and pulling equally makes sence to me. I'm woundering what your thoughts are on tiller adjustment as I have not seen you mention it.
> 
> Your discription is so indepth and informative, really appreciate the info. How about a "Destroyer Tuning Video" in your spare time!!



Tiller adjustments are fine but I don't believe they should be a focus. Matter of fact that is one of the last things I check...and then I'm just making sure they are within 1/8" or so. After I'm done tuning I've never actually had one out farther than 1/16" top to bottom. On these bows I just concentrate on getting everything tuned as close to the pivot points of the bow/archer combo (the grip) as possible thus making it more forgiving. I tune as detailed to get it tuned for my grip at 7/8" centershot...and I center the arrow in the berger holes and and level through the d-loop then tune at the limb bolts to effect high or low tears. That is why I turn limb bolts (to get rid of the high and low tears and keep the arrow as close to my hand---pivot point---as possible). After all this I check to be anal and see but I've always been very close to even tiller and just have never worried about it.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

lpv77 said:


> I just built my press and draw board. I have read the entire post on tuning the destroyer. i am still slightly confused. On set up, dead center is 7/8" from berger holes? Are you setting nock height at 90*? My pro shop had twisted one of my yoke sides. Im not sure which one or how many times, Do I have to get them back to factory spec prior to starting the procedure? What is the twist amount from factory? The only initial cam lean adjustment is done at rest to about 1 inch above center serving? If i have tears when paper tuning, I only adjust the top cam or both cams? What is the diff. between timing and syncronization?
> I apologise for all the questions, Im more of a hands on guy then a reading comprehension type guy, lol...
> Vinny


1) Yes, 7/8" from the berger holes to the center of the arrow....or if you have a long stabalizer you can center the arrow on that.

2) I prefer to set my nock at 90 degrees and centered in the berger holes.

3) Any guess I've given on starting cam lean is just a guess. I've tuned them for other people and have had them tune anywhere from just below the peep to dead level with the string. Everyone grips the bow and holds the string different at full draw. The beauty of this cam system is no matter how you grip the bow you can adjust it for you to tune down the center (as long as your consistant!). Most of the ones I've tuned have been slightly above the center serving so that is where I start now. The important thing is to get both the top and bottom the same angle to start with and then make the same adjustments to both as you go.

4) Timing is when things happen during the draw cycle of the bow. For example when you reach full weight...when you start dropping into the valley...when you reach max letoff...when you hit the wall. What effects timing is how the cam or cams is oriented. Things will happen sooner if the cams are advanced and later in the cycle if they are ******ed. People generally use this term the same as cam orientation because they are so closely related. Most bows have timing marks on them as a recomendation from the factory.

5) Synchronization is a term specific to 2 cam bows and simply pertains to how both cams work together. Ideally you want the bows to work together through the draw cycle from start to finish. This does not always occur and general consensus is for best performance and to maximize your bows let off you should prioritize synchronization at the end of the draw cycle. Specifically to the Destroyer you want the draw stops hitting at the same time while you draw the bow. There are also many other people that prefer the top cam hitting slightly ahead of the bottom. You can look up creep tuning in the tuning section which is good to check if your priority is hunting.
Ken
Ken


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## baldyhunter

baldyhunter said:


> Tiller adjustments are fine but I don't believe they should be a focus. Matter of fact that is one of the last things I check...and then I'm just making sure they are within 1/8" or so. After I'm done tuning I've never actually had one out farther than 1/16" top to bottom. On these bows I just concentrate on getting everything tuned as close to the pivot points of the bow/archer combo (the grip) as possible thus making it more forgiving. I tune as detailed to get it tuned for my grip at 7/8" centershot...and I center the arrow in the berger holes and and level through the d-loop then tune at the limb bolts to effect high or low tears. That is why I turn limb bolts (to get rid of the high and low tears and keep the arrow as close to my hand---pivot point---as possible). After all this I check to be anal and see but I've always been very close to even tiller and just have never worried about it.
> Ken



I guess this goes with a primary theme of mine. Far to many people tune with tape measures and levels and not enough people tune by shooting arrows through their bows! An arrow flying perfectly level out of my bow tells me the limbs are working together...not a tape measure against my riser LOL.


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## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> Baldy - Here a thought:
> If you did actually find time and make a video you could probably sell em for $20EA. But you'd probably need to put a hold harmless disclaimer with it for folks who somehow screwed their bows up doing something wrong.
> 
> Sounds negative I know, but just a thought.


Nice thought. Wish I were handy with computers and editing software but it would take me a month to make it. Wish you were a little closer and we would make good team!


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## lil buck

*D350 strings and cable's*

Thank you Ken for another awesome set of cables and string. Just to give you a heads up I've been reaching the IBO speeds + with your setup once again I can't thank you enough for your direction and help. I did find some pic's that may help others in understanding the yoke tuning method I am going to try and post them with the pic's.


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## xtremetj

Thanks for all the tips baldy! I set up my D340 per your recommendations and have found a new bow to fall in love with. This bow is shooting very well for me right now at the shorter yardages. I can't wait to try it at 40+ yards and see how it shoots. I honestly never thought I'd be so pumped over a bow other than my Tributes. I'm planning on buying a second one as a backup!


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## hunter74

*thanks*

Due to your efforts i got my 350 shooting perfect,it sure took all the trial and error out of the tuning thanks again.


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## BayouBob

lil buck said:


> Thank you Ken for another awesome set of cables and string. Just to give you a heads up I've been reaching the IBO speeds + with your setup once again I can't thank you enough for your direction and help. I did find some pic's that may help others in understanding the yoke tuning method I am going to try and post them with the pic's.


Blockhead here doesn't quite understand your diagram. What are the small arrows pointing to to indicate the problem?


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## nwmn

lil buck said:


> Thank you Ken for another awesome set of cables and string. Just to give you a heads up I've been reaching the IBO speeds + with your setup once again I can't thank you enough for your direction and help. I did find some pic's that may help others in understanding the yoke tuning method I am going to try and post them with the pic's.



With that last picture it makes it easy to see how with enough side pressure a bow could derail on the letdown. Any bow


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## baldyhunter

xtremetj said:


> Thanks for all the tips baldy! I set up my D340 per your recommendations and have found a new bow to fall in love with. This bow is shooting very well for me right now at the shorter yardages. I can't wait to try it at 40+ yards and see how it shoots. I honestly never thought I'd be so pumped over a bow other than my Tributes. I'm planning on buying a second one as a backup!


Yep...I know what you mean. I can say that this is the best bow I've ever owned. I can't wait to see what happens next year. I'll be extatic if they keep the split yokes, binary cams and FLX. I just have never seen a bow this tuneable and with this little in the way of riser torque.
Ken


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## fletched

KODIAK JOE said:


> Greetings Ken, I just picked up a 340 and am interested in setup and tuning it myself. I've been reading (and rereading, and rereading) this thread trying to grasp the concept and theory of getting this bow to shoot bullet holes.
> 
> Other articles I've read have talk of tiller adjustment as the first step in, or part of the process, of tuning. Having the limbs balanced and pulling equally makes sence to me. I'm woundering what your thoughts are on tiller adjustment as I have not seen you mention it.
> 
> Your discription is so indepth and informative, really appreciate the info. How about a "Destroyer Tuning Video" in your spare time!!


Hey KODIAK JOE, I read your post here and wanted to share something with you that may help you understand tiller tuning. The tiller adjustment is used to change the angle of the riser. If the bottom limb is 1 turn out more than the top, the limbs will still be under equal pressure and stay balanced. The poundage will always be split equally between both limbs. Tiller tuning is used to make aiming the bow more natural. If you find yourself always aiming below the dot and it have to fight the bow to get it up to the dot, you can turn the top limb out a little to change the angle of the riser. This will make the bow rise a little and make it settle down right on the dot. You can either tighten up a limb bolt or loosen the other to get the same result. If you have a problem with the bow wanting to settle above the dot, you can turn the bottom limb out a little to get the bow to fall a little. Next time you are shooting at 20 yards, just pay attention to where your pin wants to settle. Just remember that when you make a tiller adjustment, you will have to either move your nocking point or rest to get the correct tune. When you buy a bow and in the process of tuning it, this is a good time to watch where the sight pin is settling. You will need to have all your goodies on the bow because the weight will change the balance of the bow. As you are paper tuning or walk back tuning, it is easier to add tiller tuning in at this time before you get everything set. I wish you success in the setup and tuning of your bows.


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## baldyhunter

fletched said:


> Hey KODIAK JOE, I read your post here and wanted to share something with you that may help you understand tiller tuning. The tiller adjustment is used to change the angle of the riser. If the bottom limb is 1 turn out more than the top, the limbs will still be under equal pressure and stay balanced. The poundage will always be split equally between both limbs. Tiller tuning is used to make aiming the bow more natural. If you find yourself always aiming below the dot and it have to fight the bow to get it up to the dot, you can turn the top limb out a little to change the angle of the riser. This will make the bow rise a little and make it settle down right on the dot. You can either tighten up a limb bolt or loosen the other to get the same result. If you have a problem with the bow wanting to settle above the dot, you can turn the bottom limb out a little to get the bow to fall a little. Next time you are shooting at 20 yards, just pay attention to where your pin wants to settle. Just remember that when you make a tiller adjustment, you will have to either move your nocking point or rest to get the correct tune. When you buy a bow and in the process of tuning it, this is a good time to watch where the sight pin is settling. You will need to have all your goodies on the bow because the weight will change the balance of the bow. As you are paper tuning or walk back tuning, it is easier to add tiller tuning in at this time before you get everything set. I wish you success in the setup and tuning of your bows.


 Thanks fletched that is good info. I thought Kodiac Joe was refering to tiller adjustment which is something different than tiller tuning. I believe you are right about tiller tuning and its benefits for some and have used it to good effect on target rigs. Tiller adjustment though (setting the distance from a fixed point on the riser both top and bottom the same) I find usually takes care of itself as I tune with other methods which is what I tried to communicate. Good info. Just wasn't sure which tiller adjustment Kodiac Joe was refering to.
Ken
Ken


----------



## fletched

baldyhunter said:


> Thanks fletched that is good info. I thought Kodiac Joe was refering to tiller adjustment which is something different than tiller tuning. I believe you are right about tiller tuning and its benefits for some and have used it to good effect on target rigs. Tiller adjustment though (setting the distance from a fixed point on the riser both top and bottom the same) I find usually takes care of itself as I tune with other methods which is what I tried to communicate. Good info. Just wasn't sure which tiller adjustment Kodiac Joe was refering to.
> Ken
> Ken


I wasn't sure on what he was refering to but either way, it is good to know what the effects of adjusting them even or offset has on the bow. I haven't read every page but you have done a great job on explaining things. It is a big help for those who are wanting to learn and try to tune their own bows. I learned most everything the hard way, by trial and error. It is nice today for archers how are wanting to learn since the interenet is available. I remember reading every magazine I could get my hands on. Information came slow back then but today, it is just a click away. The sharing or tuning advice and infomation can make a rookie tuner a pro tuner in no time at all. As long as an archer has the desire and puts all the infomation and advice into hands on experience, they can become a very good tuner or shooter. Some archers want to learn but are afraid to work on their own stuff due to that lack of confidence. If they buy an older bow for a $100 bucks, they can have a practice bow to learn on without having the fear of tearing up a $900 bow. Once you have mastered the $100 bow, trade it for another $100 bow with a different cam system and learn to work on it.


----------



## baldyhunter

fletched said:


> I wasn't sure on what he was refering to but either way, it is good to know what the effects of adjusting them even or offset has on the bow. I haven't read every page but you have done a great job on explaining things. It is a big help for those who are wanting to learn and try to tune their own bows. I learned most everything the hard way, by trial and error. It is nice today for archers how are wanting to learn since the interenet is available. I remember reading every magazine I could get my hands on. Information came slow back then but today, it is just a click away. The sharing or tuning advice and infomation can make a rookie tuner a pro tuner in no time at all. As long as an archer has the desire and puts all the infomation and advice into hands on experience, they can become a very good tuner or shooter. Some archers want to learn but are afraid to work on their own stuff due to that lack of confidence. If they buy an older bow for a $100 bucks, they can have a practice bow to learn on without having the fear of tearing up a $900 bow. Once you have mastered the $100 bow, trade it for another $100 bow with a different cam system and learn to work on it.


Well said!


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## TozerBGood

fletched said:


> I wasn't sure on what he was refering to but either way, it is good to know what the effects of adjusting them even or offset has on the bow. I haven't read every page but you have done a great job on explaining things. It is a big help for those who are wanting to learn and try to tune their own bows. I learned most everything the hard way, by trial and error. It is nice today for archers how are wanting to learn since the interenet is available. I remember reading every magazine I could get my hands on. Information came slow back then but today, it is just a click away. The sharing or tuning advice and infomation can make a rookie tuner a pro tuner in no time at all. As long as an archer has the desire and puts all the infomation and advice into hands on experience, they can become a very good tuner or shooter. Some archers want to learn but are afraid to work on their own stuff due to that lack of confidence. If they buy an older bow for a $100 bucks, they can have a practice bow to learn on without having the fear of tearing up a $900 bow. Once you have mastered the $100 bow, trade it for another $100 bow with a different cam system and learn to work on it.


But one problem is that if an amatuer (like me) is doing work on his/her own warrantied bow(s), and does something dumb, the manufacturer will have no mercy (regardless of the manufacturer). They will all say that you should have taken it to a licensed dealer.

My point is that changing your own strings, tuning your own bows, etc...comes with a very definite risk.

Not that it ever stopped me before...

I like your point about doing it on used bows first (if you can afford it that is ...along with the correct press). You could probably sell the tuned bow for more than you paid for it...once you got it tuned correctly.

*Which brings me to a question... what kinds of presses are all you "tinkerers" using for your destroyers ? *(I don't mean the portable ones).


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## lil buck

*Target failure*

After getting my D350 and my sons D340 all tuned in with your strings I'm having a hard time with the targets holding up at any yardage here are some pic's it must be from all the speed and kinetic energy. What do you think Baldy hunter (Ken). The target hanging is only one week old.


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## fletched

TozerBGood said:


> But one problem is that if an amatuer (like me) is doing work on his/her own warrantied bow(s), and does something dumb, the manufacturer will have no mercy (regardless of the manufacturer). They will all say that you should have taken it to a licensed dealer.
> 
> My point is that changing your own strings, tuning your own bows, etc...comes with a very definite risk.
> 
> Not that it ever stopped me before...
> 
> I like your point about doing it on used bows first (if you can afford it that is ...along with the correct press). You could probably sell the tuned bow for more than you paid for it...once you got it tuned correctly.
> 
> *Which brings me to a question... what kinds of presses are all you "tinkerers" using for your destroyers ? *(I don't mean the portable ones).


I built my own press. It is a heavy duty version of the last chance power press. 

There isn't that much of a risk. The key is to use a good press. Swapping strings is easy, removing cams and installing them is easy. The biggest risk when working on bows is working with the screws. Most accessories come with cheap screws and removing them can be tricky sometimes. I have several different sizes of high quality left handed drill bits to remove broken or striped headed screws. I have a high quality drill and tap set that comes in very handy. I have removed several striped and broken screws for people. It is easily done. I also have a high quality screw assortment. I replace every screw that attaches to the bow when I work on them. I use a lithium grease stick to lube the screws before I install them. I use as long of a screw as possible to get good holding power and thread life. On new bows, I will run a tap through all the holes to clean out any paint. I polish the axles and use good grease on any bow that needs it. I have some small files to debur the cams when I build new strings so it won't cut the serving. Bows are pretty simple and I have had very few problems with working on them. If I get a bow to work on that looks like it has been severly neglected, I will tell the person that since the bow is in bad shape, if anything happens, it will be at their exspense. I have worked on some bows where the axles where rusted and seized up in the limbs. It can be tricky in removing them but if done right, it usually goes good.
Having the proper tools, supplies and equipment and some common sense will get the job done correctly and safely. If there is something that you don't understand, just ask someone who does.


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## lil buck

*Bow press story*

You are right about the bow press, I made the mistake and got taken in by a cheap inter-net press which is out the door now (junked). I purchased one from Last Chance Archery, set it up and have had no problems since talking (shop) with Ken I can't believe how much the bows have changed over the last ten or so years and the attitudes about every thing, I've always enjoyed archery, not just for hunting but it's an excellent past time with my four kid's. Something that wonders me (around home here) every body thinks $ as soon as you start asking question's you get the well bring it in all check it out for ya. They don't know me very well because I am the kind of guy that will ruin a 1000.00 dollar bow just to see what makes her tick now don't get me wrong THIS is not my first bow , an accident took me away from archery for about 10 to 12 years and getting back into it there is a lot that changed. Thank you Ken for your help, Henry


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## TozerBGood

fletched said:


> I built my own press. It is a heavy duty version of the last chance power press.
> 
> There isn't that much of a risk. The key is to use a good press. Swapping strings is easy, removing cams and installing them is easy. The biggest risk when working on bows is working with the screws. Most accessories come with cheap screws and removing them can be tricky sometimes. I have several different sizes of high quality left handed drill bits to remove broken or striped headed screws. I have a high quality drill and tap set that comes in very handy. I have removed several striped and broken screws for people. It is easily done. I also have a high quality screw assortment. I replace every screw that attaches to the bow when I work on them. I use a lithium grease stick to lube the screws before I install them. I use as long of a screw as possible to get good holding power and thread life. On new bows, I will run a tap through all the holes to clean out any paint. I polish the axles and use good grease on any bow that needs it. I have some small files to debur the cams when I build new strings so it won't cut the serving. Bows are pretty simple and I have had very few problems with working on them. If I get a bow to work on that looks like it has been severly neglected, I will tell the person that since the bow is in bad shape, if anything happens, it will be at their exspense. I have worked on some bows where the axles where rusted and seized up in the limbs. It can be tricky in removing them but if done right, it usually goes good.
> Having the proper tools, supplies and equipment and some common sense will get the job done correctly and safely. If there is something that you don't understand, just ask someone who does.


Interesting point you make about the screws. Thanks for sharing.

I would like to add that Matt/PA from BowTech told me you should use a dab of blue locktite on the screws. He also told me that the factory puts locktite on them. I checked one screw on mine, and sure enough...it had locktite on the threads.

*Regarding Cam/screws/general maint: *
There was a guy a month or 2 ago, who had taken his bowtech in to the shop a couple of years ago (can't remember for sure but I think it was a Commander or Captain). Anyways, his screw came loose on the cam, and he didn't notice it, and he wrecked his bow - the cam & shaft & string was trashed. His complaint of course was that Bowtech wouldn't treat it under the warranty. The thread consensus (you had to look for it between all the basher posts) was that the dealer screwed him, but I thought (like you say) the guy should have paid attention to the condition of his cams, and maintained it. Everytime you shoot it, you should look it over before and after.


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## herm25

OMG!!! Why is there SNOW on the ground in JULY!!!!


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## TozerBGood

herm25 said:


> OMG!!! Why is there SNOW on the ground in JULY!!!!


It must be global warming


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## fletched

TozerBGood said:


> Interesting point you make about the screws. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> I would like to add that Matt/PA from BowTech told me you should use a dab of blue locktite on the screws. He also told me that the factory puts locktite on them. I checked one screw on mine, and sure enough...it had locktite on the threads.
> 
> *Regarding Cam/screws/general maint: *
> There was a guy a month or 2 ago, who had taken his bowtech in to the shop a couple of years ago (can't remember for sure but I think it was a Commander or Captain). Anyways, his screw came loose on the cam, and he didn't notice it, and he wrecked his bow - the cam & shaft & string was trashed. His complaint of course was that Bowtech wouldn't treat it under the warranty. The thread consensus (you had to look for it between all the basher posts) was that the dealer screwed him, but I thought (like you say) the guy should have paid attention to the condition of his cams, and maintained it. Everytime you shoot it, you should look it over before and after.


I have used this stuff called vibra-stop on the screws and it worked very good. I haven't seen the stuff in a while and don't know if they still make it. I use the lithium grease stick on the threads now. It lubricates the threads and it reduces friction allowing the screw to get tight without any binding. Plus it acts as an anitiseize allowing for easy removal later on.


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## herm25

TozerBGood said:


> It must be global warming


Yes global warming that is it!! I should have known, or maybe because theozone is burning away??


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## TozerBGood

herm25 said:


> Yes global warming that is it!! I should have known, or maybe because theozone is burning away??


Same thang if you like Al Gore. Except he was probably cheating on his wife. He probably learned it from Bill Clinton & Monica Lewinsky.

Anyways...I think it's just bs (the global warming thang that is)


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## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> But one problem is that if an amatuer (like me) is doing work on his/her own warrantied bow(s), and does something dumb, the manufacturer will have no mercy (regardless of the manufacturer). They will all say that you should have taken it to a licensed dealer.
> 
> My point is that changing your own strings, tuning your own bows, etc...comes with a very definite risk.
> 
> Not that it ever stopped me before...
> 
> I like your point about doing it on used bows first (if you can afford it that is ...along with the correct press). You could probably sell the tuned bow for more than you paid for it...once you got it tuned correctly.
> 
> *Which brings me to a question... what kinds of presses are all you "tinkerers" using for your destroyers ? *(I don't mean the portable ones).


I was one of the last lucky people to get a Toad Press from Jason McCormick. It is a fantastic limb tip press that allows you to quickly apply and release tension. I know they are expensive but the EZ-press is fantastic as well as the X-Press. Last Chance Archery has recently imposed its limb tip patent on all the imitators making them scarce.


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## cicero

Got my bow back from Baldyhunter yesterday and all I can say is WOW!!! Strings look amazing and the bow shoots great!! Only sound you here is arrow slapping!!! Great job Ken!!!!


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## deerheaven

cicero said:


> Got my bow back from Baldyhunter yesterday and all I can say is WOW!!! Strings look amazing and the bow shoots great!! Only sound you here is arrow slapping!!! Great job Ken!!!!


what reason is those silencers on cables and not strings?


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## baldyhunter

deerheaven said:


> what reason is those silencers on cables and not strings?


No speed loss (less than 1 fps) and almost as effective!


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## BriceJ MI

*Whisker biscuit*

Hey Baldyhunter have u tuned a destoyer 340-350 with a whisker biscuit if so which one im deciding on the sure shot or sure shot pro I just want to have enough adustment in the arrow rest and thanks in advane for the answer.

I was thinking of putting one on my 82 ab to just want to keep it simple


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## deerheaven

baldyhunter said:


> No speed loss (less than 1 fps) and almost as effective!


thanks


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## baldyhunter

BriceJ MI said:


> Hey Baldyhunter have u tuned a destoyer 340-350 with a whisker biscuit if so which one im deciding on the sure shot or sure shot pro I just want to have enough adustment in the arrow rest and thanks in advane for the answer.
> 
> I was thinking of putting one on my 82 ab to just want to keep it simple


I don't tune them with WB's but that's not to say they aren't great rests for some people. Tuning fixed blade braodheads to longer distances with them can be a chore though. I can tune drop aways much more quickly and easily so stick with and recommend those to my customers. If you've used them in the past, don't shoot fixed blade braodheads at long ranges, and like the simplicity they are good rests but I don't use them.
Ken


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## lil buck

*Yoke cross tuning*

Hi Ken, I was just wondering if you tried cross tuning the yokes to get the limb tips equal on the snap side.


----------



## baldyhunter

lil buck said:


> Hi Ken, I was just wondering if you tried cross tuning the yokes to get the limb tips equal on the snap side.



I'm not really sure what your getting at but you usually (depending on grip, follow through, how hard you pull the string to your face, form, etc) don't want the limb tips equal from side to side. Most people will shoot these bows best with the shelf side ATA shorter than the riser side ATA (causing slight pre-lean in the cams) if you have your rest at 7/8".


----------



## lil buck

baldyhunter said:


> I'm not really sure what your getting at but you usually (depending on grip, follow through, how hard you pull the string to your face, form, etc) don't want the limb tips equal from side to side. Most people will shoot these bows best with the shelf side ATA shorter than the riser side ATA (causing slight pre-lean in the cams) if you have your rest at 7/8".


While setting mine up the last time it seamed to respond better with the shelf side a little longer and the outer side longer but when I evened the yoke side to side on presure not that they were even as in flat even but it seemed as if the presure between side to side and top and bottom gave me another few fps. instead of tuning by tape measure or laser I've been tuning more on feel paper tune, walk back and then chrono. I've noticed to gain a little more speed.


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## foudarme

ken do you get such a difference in the tuning with the med torqueless grip...I had the same results on my own D350 and with the D340 I have just tuned for a friend...let me explain to you: I have started with the shaft contacting at the serving upper part's level as recommanded but ended with a shaft contacting at the end of the cam serving (upside and downside of course) ...do you ever seen something like that or is this linked with my own way to handle the bow?


----------



## KnyshNick

Thanx a lot baldyhunter. Your post, starting this thread helped me much to tune my D340.

I had an issue with paper tuning and the rest adjustments didn't help. Your info about yoke tuning did the job. Bow is shooting perfect buletholes! Appreciate that much!


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> ken do you get such a difference in the tuning with the med torqueless grip...I had the same results on my own D350 and with the D340 I have just tuned for a friend...let me explain to you: I have started with the shaft contacting at the serving upper part's level as recommanded but ended with a shaft contacting at the end of the cam serving (upside and downside of course) ...do you ever seen something like that or is this linked with my own way to handle the bow?


It will definately change things! Both the ones I installed caused me to tune the bow by adding more twists to the right yoke. But they were left/right adjustments not up and down the serving much. I think it is probably particular to the way each individual interacts with the grip. If you keep a stiff wrist then a med wrist grip would cause the bow to angle the top cam toward the archer causing what you are referring to. Did your friend shoot it the same way or was it different for him? The great thing about it is it helps you grip the bow the same every time.


----------



## baldyhunter

KnyshNick said:


> Thanx a lot baldyhunter. Your post, starting this thread helped me much to tune my D340.
> 
> I had an issue with paper tuning and the rest adjustments didn't help. Your info about yoke tuning did the job. Bow is shooting perfect buletholes! Appreciate that much!


Thanks for taking the time to write that. It makes me feel good about spending the time on this sight an trying to help others.
Ken


----------



## MOBIGBUCKS

baldyhunter said:


> Thanks for taking the time to write that. It makes me feel good about spending the time on this sight an trying to help others.
> Ken


Ken,

This is one very informative thread! Thanks for helping everyone. I missed the part in the thread about the string dampener....Is everyone changing out the factory one? If so, which one should I buy and why is it better? Just curious because I may wanna change if that is the case.


----------



## baldyhunter

MOBIGBUCKS said:


> Ken,
> 
> This is one very informative thread! Thanks for helping everyone. I missed the part in the thread about the string dampener....Is everyone changing out the factory one? If so, which one should I buy and why is it better? Just curious because I may wanna change if that is the case.


Here is a thread with some info for you
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1162333


----------



## baldyhunter

MOBIGBUCKS said:


> Ken,
> 
> This is one very informative thread! Thanks for helping everyone. I missed the part in the thread about the string dampener....Is everyone changing out the factory one? If so, which one should I buy and why is it better? Just curious because I may wanna change if that is the case.


Here's a better one
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1219239


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> Did your friend shoot it the same way or was it different for him?


That's the question !!!!!!!!!!!! he sent its bow by mail but I had asked to him a paper hole with this arrow and when I recieved the bow I have shot it and get the same paper hole...so I hope that both we shoot the same way!


----------



## foudarme

I have forgotten the main thing: thanks again for sharing, ken!


----------



## foudarme

MOBIGBUCKS said:


> Ken,
> 
> This is one very informative thread! Thanks for helping everyone. I missed the part in the thread about the string dampener....Is everyone changing out the factory one? If so, which one should I buy and why is it better? Just curious because I may wanna change if that is the case.


I have filled mine with a piece of 3 rivers 8gpp axis diameter weigth tube...finally the result is pretty good :zip:


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I have filled mine with a piece of 3 rivers 8gpp axis diameter weigth tube...finally the result is pretty good :zip:


That sounds like a great idea!


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> That sounds like a great idea!


once filled (it fits perfectly), I just fix it inside the carbon rod in screwing a wood screw which bites only the platic of the tube and makes it swelling and fitting very tight inside...use only the 8gpp axis (HIT diameter) weight tube and not the 5 or 3gpp which are not enough full into themselves....thanks to the screw the weight tube can be remove easily (not the case if glued)


----------



## gc1

*BIG Thanks*

Hey baldyhunter AKA Ken, just wanted to throw you a THANK YOU for your post and then all of your help in the PMs you answered. I think this destroyer is a great bow and when tuned it really shoots great. I can see this bow being a real keeper! Guys like Ken make Archery Talk a favorite for certain.


----------



## baldyhunter

gc1 said:


> Hey baldyhunter AKA Ken, just wanted to throw you a THANK YOU for your post and then all of your help in the PMs you answered. I think this destroyer is a great bow and when tuned it really shoots great. I can see this bow being a real keeper! Guys like Ken make Archery Talk a favorite for certain.


Thanks for that George. It feels good to feel like I can help people with their bows. I think archery is a great sport and sharing info makes it even better. Sounds like you've got that bow tuned pretty dang well! ENJOY!
Ken


----------



## 308norma

AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME! thread thank you!!! Am i newbie yes and no I've shot for years but with all the technology and info you supply yes I am a newbie. Just recieved my proline strings for my D350 and came with floating yokes i know you mentioned something about it... but should i serve them? THX!! Baldyhunter in advance.


----------



## baldyhunter

My opinion is yes..you should serve the yokes. The factory strings have changed and are coming this way now and I like to be able to tune a bow and have it hold. You can try the floating yokes and see if it tunes well. If you need to start twisting yokes though, you are much better off having them served.
Ken


----------



## 308norma

Thank you very much for your opinion and that's what i'll try.


----------



## fryedaddy

great post... i got mine shooting perfect... but have a little peep rotation with the factory string... i made a new string (just made string and not cables) but when i put the string on it was too short.... the limb sticker says 61 9/16".... but when i took the factory string off it was almost 62".... should i stick with the 61 9/16" and make new cables too...or go off the actual measurement? any suggestions?


----------



## baldyhunter

fryedaddy said:


> great post... i got mine shooting perfect... but have a little peep rotation with the factory string... i made a new string (just made string and not cables) but when i put the string on it was too short.... the limb sticker says 61 9/16".... but when i took the factory string off it was almost 62".... should i stick with the 61 9/16" and make new cables too...or go off the actual measurement? any suggestions?


I'd stick with a string about 61 9/16 and shorten the cables. Only problem is the factory cables are twisted to a high degree as is and when they stretch it is very hard to add enough twist to spec them out. You may need to make the cables as well. I've been making the cables 1/8" under factory recommended specs on the 350's.
Ken


----------



## TozerBGood

Rock Steady posted this thread in the Destroyer Owners Chat Thread.

It has these following links to a couple of BT videos

Changing String and Cables on a BowTech Destroyer.mov

BowTech Destroyer Draw Length Adjustment.mov

I liked the BT videos, but at the same time I did not fail to notice that it is somewhat in disagreement with the nature of this "Tuning to perfection" thread. Espectially when the BT video instructs you to line up the cams so the arrow against the cam is parallel to the string.

From my experiece, and obviously many folks on this thread...we have all found that the arrow should angle a bit towards the string for centrshot tuning...correct? Did anyone not have to lean their cams a bit to the left (for right handed shooters - the other direction for left handers) to get it to line up? (I suppose there may be a few destroyers out there that this is not true, but I doubt it's very many if any at all)

It seems to me that BowTech could put a little more effort into it with the prices that is being charged for the bow. (JMO). I'm sure they must have closely examined this thread.


----------



## baldyhunter

TozerBGood said:


> Rock Steady posted this thread in the Destroyer Owners Chat Thread.
> 
> It has these following links to a couple of BT videos
> 
> Changing String and Cables on a BowTech Destroyer.mov
> 
> BowTech Destroyer Draw Length Adjustment.mov
> 
> I liked the BT videos, but at the same time I did not fail to notice that it is somewhat in disagreement with the nature of this "Tuning to perfection" thread. Espectially when the BT video instructs you to line up the cams so the arrow against the cam is parallel to the string.
> 
> From my experiece, and obviously many folks on this thread...we have all found that the arrow should angle a bit towards the string for centrshot tuning...correct? Did anyone not have to lean their cams a bit to the left (for right handed shooters - the other direction for left handers) to get it to line up? (I suppose there may be a few destroyers out there that this is not true, but I doubt it's very many if any at all)
> 
> It seems to me that BowTech could put a little more effort into it with the prices that is being charged for the bow. (JMO). I'm sure they must have closely examined this thread.


They've gotta come up with something that fits everyone and from that standpoint I understand. Out of 9 or 10 of these I've tuned for other people only 1 tuned for the shooter with the arrow parallel to the string. This is the way they come from the factory and almost everyone is getting a left tear when these are pulled out of the box causing an extreme inside position on the rest to tune correctly. Not only that...the amount of arc in the cam from brace to full draw does not change. So if the cam starts straight up and parallel it will actually have more cam lean in it at full draw than the bows I yoke tune because I'm starting the other way at brace and end in a slight top right condition at full draw. When set parallel to start the lean right is noticeably more than when it is tuned to the shooter starting a little top left. From Bowtechs position I can understand they need something that seems logical that people can easily do that fits...but if everyone set the cams that way there are going to be a lot of Destroyers with rests way in toward the riser and sights set outside the string/ arrow lineup farther than they need to be. These two things deteriorate the percieved quality of their product. If I was them I'd be stressing that this is the most tuneable bow on the market today...and the only one currently available that can be tuned straight down the center of the riser no matter your grip (as long as it is consistant). To me it seems their missing the most saleable and pertinant feature of their own product!


----------



## geekster

I give a x2 on that. Bowtech should be pushing the great tunability on the destroyers on their marketing. Once you get the understanding on this cam system then you really appreciate the tunability of the destroyers.


----------



## bassbug

*d350*

I just purchased a d350 7-29 and the y is served and look forward to getting it tuned using this thread thanks for all the info


----------



## gmark

*Current revision*

Baldy...Ken...I've read several of your posting and threads. First and foremost, THANK YOU. It is amazing the dedication and time you've put forward to help the rest of us.

I'm curious if you would post pics of your bow as you have it today. I've read the threads about string stops, bowjax, and other "tweaks" you've pondered in fine tuning the Destroyer. The timeline on each thread left me wondering what your set up looks like today. I'm considering some enhancements to quiet my bow. Everyone comments on how quiet it is (still stock), but I know from all the great info there is more that can be done. From all you have shared on AT you are (or have) become the de facto guru on tuning this bow. IMHO Thanks in advance.

By the way, are you still waiting on the new family addition?


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> They've gotta come up with something that fits everyone and from that standpoint I understand. Out of 9 or 10 of these I've tuned for other people only 1 tuned for the shooter with the arrow parallel to the string. This is the way they come from the factory and almost everyone is getting a left tear when these are pulled out of the box causing an extreme inside position on the rest to tune correctly. Not only that...the amount of arc in the cam from brace to full draw does not change. So if the cam starts straight up and parallel it will actually have more cam lean in it at full draw than the bows I yoke tune because I'm starting the other way at brace and end in a slight top right condition at full draw. When set parallel to start the lean right is noticeably more than when it is tuned to the shooter starting a little top left. From Bowtechs position I can understand they need something that seems logical that people can easily do that fits...but if everyone set the cams that way there are going to be a lot of Destroyers with rests way in toward the riser and sights set outside the string/ arrow lineup farther than they need to be. These two things deteriorate the percieved quality of their product. If I was them I'd be stressing that this is the most tuneable bow on the market today...and the only one currently available that can be tuned straight down the center of the riser no matter your grip (as long as it is consistant). To me it seems their missing the most saleable and pertinant feature of their own product!


I have finished another D340 for another friend...it came new with the shaft parallel to the string, a good synch and was 329 IBO at its true drawlength ..after "ken's tuning", changing the string (astroflight), filling the string stopper, dampening the flexguard it is now much more silentfull and...341 IBO at its true drawlength !

THANNNKKKKKKKKKKS KEN !


----------



## wild thang

Thanks Ken
I bought a used Destroyer 350 several weeks ago that was depressing to shoot ( because it was out of tune & time so bad ) but after a little twisting on the string & cables to get the bow back to spec I used Baldyhunters instruction to paper tune the bow and wow. After the cam lean adjustment, with the rest dead center the first 3 arrows had a 1/2" low tear, after nock height adjustment the next 3 arrows were bullet holes. This was the easiest tune that I have ever done. With a few more small tweaks this baby will be a tack driver. 
Bruce


----------



## baldyhunter

gmark said:


> Baldy...Ken...I've read several of your posting and threads. First and foremost, THANK YOU. It is amazing the dedication and time you've put forward to help the rest of us.
> 
> I'm curious if you would post pics of your bow as you have it today. I've read the threads about string stops, bowjax, and other "tweaks" you've pondered in fine tuning the Destroyer. The timeline on each thread left me wondering what your set up looks like today. I'm considering some enhancements to quiet my bow. Everyone comments on how quiet it is (still stock), but I know from all the great info there is more that can be done. From all you have shared on AT you are (or have) become the de facto guru on tuning this bow. IMHO Thanks in advance.
> 
> By the way, are you still waiting on the new family addition?



No more waiting! Jane was born about 2 months ago now and I couldn't be more proud. I can't wait till she's old enough to shoot a bow of her own! I'll post some pics of my bow in it's current iteration soon. Hear is the aftermarket list. 
limbsaver quads on the limbs
bowjax big jax on the string stop (toward the front)
bowjax slim jax on the FLX
cat whiskers on the cables (not as much as I'd like...may change soon)
Torquless medium wrist full grip
strings (I made a set of 452X as soon as I got it but like Trophy much better)
Pics to come....


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I have finished another D340 for another friend...it came new with the shaft parallel to the string, a good synch and was 329 IBO at its true drawlength ..after "ken's tuning", changing the string (astroflight), filling the string stopper, dampening the flexguard it is now much more silentfull and...341 IBO at its true drawlength !
> 
> THANNNKKKKKKKKKKS KEN !


Your welcome! I'm glad you got that Astroflight working well. That is a material I'm planning on trying soon. How many speed nocks did you use?
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

wild thang said:


> Thanks Ken
> I bought a used Destroyer 350 several weeks ago that was depressing to shoot ( because it was out of tune & time so bad ) but after a little twisting on the string & cables to get the bow back to spec I used Baldyhunters instruction to paper tune the bow and wow. After the cam lean adjustment, with the rest dead center the first 3 arrows had a 1/2" low tear, after nock height adjustment the next 3 arrows were bullet holes. This was the easiest tune that I have ever done. With a few more small tweaks this baby will be a tack driver.
> Bruce


That's awesome! may I ask where your pre-lean is set? 
Ken


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> Your welcome! I'm glad you got that Astroflight working well. That is a material I'm planning on trying soon. How many speed nocks did you use?
> Ken


only 3 (i have tried 4 but its not good)...the red one....


----------



## wild thang

baldyhunter said:


> That's awesome! may I ask where your pre-lean is set?
> Ken


I set my lean with the arrow on the left side of the cam to meet the string at about 9" from the cams ( about 1 1/4" below the peep )


----------



## baldyhunter

wild thang said:


> I set my lean with the arrow on the left side of the cam to meet the string at about 9" from the cams ( about 1 1/4" below the peep )


All of them except one that I've tuned for the shooter have fallen in the area between an inch below my peep to the top of the center serving. Thanks for the reply. I'm still trying to figure out why BT would tell people to tune a bow in a way that would have the rest way in toward the riser...But your data coincides with mine and the 20 or 30 people that have contacted me this year stating that from the factory their bows are tuning way to the inside.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

Here's the way mine is ready to hunt! The only changes I'm going to make is to put full size black cat whiskers on the cables (I still prefer that over the strings) and to cover my speed nocks with shrink tubing. It's very quiet now. I never did fill the string stop. I used Tozers trick with the bow jacks and it's quiet enough...but from experience a solid tube is better. 
Ken


----------



## foudarme

I had a black qad but it has came back to the factory for to be repaired, so instead I put another camo one...

71#@30.5; 517gr arrow; 13gr peep and loop...302fps!


----------



## foudarme

what is cool with astroflight that the bow doesn't need of any string or cable silencers...the bow is deadly silentfull...but the destroyer is not my hunting compound, I use a myself made z3 hoyt kobalt compound which is 324fps IBO and looks like a toy...but is all except a toy!...I have killed both of them the next month, cause both the french male roe deer and fox hunt begin on the first june in France...this young male roe deer is named "killer " in my country cause of its woods shaped like knives, so I had to kill it before it hurts my beautiful 6 points main male...the love season for the french roe deer begins around the 15th of july and ends around the 15th of august...just now!


----------



## gmark

*Jealousy*

My first response is to Foudarme....very nice & I'm jealous. Still have 2 months of waiting before any season starts by me. Nice work with the Destroyer.....on the bow AND in the field.

To Ken,
Thank you for sharing pictures of your bow along with all the tips. I wish I was closer to have you perform the magic on mine that you have with others. I know my bow is not where it could or should be. Just came back in from shooting and undeniably determined that the rest has not been dropping in time. As you can imagine, the only consistency I have is that nothing seems consistent. I received my first FOBs today. While I've been shooting a variety of vanes to see what I like, the very first FOB made a loud whack upon the rest. I'll make the necessary adjustment, just don't feel my bow was ever set up properly. I've had it for over a month and have yet to completely enjoy it. I need the piece of mind that it is tuned correctly.

Okay, that was a little rant...sorry. This is my first bow in over (gulp) 20 yrs. Lots has changed and lots to learn. It's nice that there are people like you that are willing to share your knowledge.

Congrats on Jane! One of the threads I had read pertained to a false alarm and I thought you mentioned she was due around Aug. 2. Doesn't matter, now. She's here and I'm sure already wrapping you around her finger as our daughters do. :grin:


----------



## enewman

baldyhunter said:


> Here's the way mine is ready to hunt! The only changes I'm going to make is to put full size black cat whiskers on the cables (I still prefer that over the strings) and to cover my speed nocks with shrink tubing. It's very quiet now. I never did fill the string stop. I used Tozers trick with the bow jacks and it's quiet enough...but from experience a solid tube is better.
> Ken


why did you install a bow jax on the flex guard


----------



## baldyhunter

enewman said:


> why did you install a bow jax on the flex guard


That's primarily for the short lived and barely perceptable vibration at the shot. I tried it out (5$ so why not) and was actually surprised by how much of a difference it made. Quieted it down a bit as well.
Ken


----------



## BayouBob

Mine's done except for some black and red strings. I'm going to shoot a little more before I order them. The Death Grip from Van Handle cured my torque problem I was having while I'm rehabbing my shoulder. I went with light on everything I could to keep the overall weight down. Octane stab, Truglo .019 4 pin sight, G5 Expert Pro, rubber stuffed in the string stop tube and the stopper just off the string, cat whiskers, Limb Savers. It's quiet with Victory V3 HV's at 367 grains. (Blazers, Blazer Wraps, Nockturnals, 125 gr. points and Silver Flame broadheads.) Right now I have the bow up to 56 lbs. It max's at 63. The BC was 346 and just playing around in the shop before tuning we were getting 342 with 315 gr. arrows, peep and loop. (30" DL) It draws about 1/2 inch long on the draw board. Cams are slightly advanced and the draw stops timed. Yoke tuned by Ken's method. Shoots great. I'll chrongraph it once I settle on strings.


----------



## baldyhunter

gmark said:


> My first response is to Foudarme....very nice & I'm jealous. Still have 2 months of waiting before any season starts by me. Nice work with the Destroyer.....on the bow AND in the field.
> 
> To Ken,
> Thank you for sharing pictures of your bow along with all the tips. I wish I was closer to have you perform the magic on mine that you have with others. I know my bow is not where it could or should be. Just came back in from shooting and undeniably determined that the rest has not been dropping in time. As you can imagine, the only consistency I have is that nothing seems consistent. I received my first FOBs today. While I've been shooting a variety of vanes to see what I like, the very first FOB made a loud whack upon the rest. I'll make the necessary adjustment, just don't feel my bow was ever set up properly. I've had it for over a month and have yet to completely enjoy it. I need the piece of mind that it is tuned correctly.
> 
> Okay, that was a little rant...sorry. This is my first bow in over (gulp) 20 yrs. Lots has changed and lots to learn. It's nice that there are people like you that are willing to share your knowledge.
> 
> Congrats on Jane! One of the threads I had read pertained to a false alarm and I thought you mentioned she was due around Aug. 2. Doesn't matter, now. She's here and I'm sure already wrapping you around her finger as our daughters do. :grin:


I Know what you mean about needing to know it's tuned correctly. That peace of mind means a lot when it comes time for hunting Season. These speed bows can be persnickety when they aren't set up correctly. Have Faith though, once you get that fletching contact taken care of that bow'll be a shooter! I'd have your shop help you paper tune it and make sure the cams are synched well. If they are really knowledgeable ask them to help you yoke tune the bow. These bows are like magic. They may take a little extra work and knowledge to get shooting great, but once you get them there they are just awesome. 
Ken

PS:
Your right about my daughter...she already has me wrapped around her finger.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

BayouBob said:


> Mine's done except for some black and red strings. I'm going to shoot a little more before I order them. The Death Grip from Van Handle cured my torque problem I was having while I'm rehabbing my shoulder. I went with light on everything I could to keep the overall weight down. Octane stab, Truglo .019 4 pin sight, G5 Expert Pro, rubber stuffed in the string stop tube and the stopper just off the string, cat whiskers, Limb Savers. It's quiet with Victory V3 HV's at 367 grains. (Blazers, Blazer Wraps, Nockturnals, 125 gr. points and Silver Flame broadheads.) Right now I have the bow up to 56 lbs. It max's at 63. The BC was 346 and just playing around in the shop before tuning we were getting 342 with 315 gr. arrows, peep and loop. (30" DL) It draws about 1/2 inch long on the draw board. Cams are slightly advanced and the draw stops timed. Yoke tuned by Ken's method. Shoots great. I'll chrongraph it once I settle on strings.


That ones a beauty! I'll bet it's quiet. Care to enlighten us with how you stuffed rubber into the string stop tube. I may not be done yet!


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> what is cool with astroflight that the bow doesn't need of any string or cable silencers...the bow is deadly silentfull...but the destroyer is not my hunting compound, I use a myself made z3 hoyt kobalt compound which is 324fps IBO and looks like a toy...but is all except a toy!...I have killed both of them the next month, cause both the french male roe deer and fox hunt begin on the first june in France...this young male roe deer is named "killer " in my country cause of its woods shaped like knives, so I had to kill it before it hurts my beautiful 6 points main male...the love season for the french roe deer begins around the 15th of july and ends around the 15th of august...just now!






Nice bow Jean and awesome shooting! I think I see and Astroflight trial in my future. Thanks for the pics and info.
Ken


----------



## BayouBob

Just digging around in the pile of junk in the shop I found a piece of soft rubber about 1/4 inch thick. It really did have the same feel as Navcom rubber. (For the life of me I can't remember what it started life as.) I had to experiment a couple of times but I cut a strip about the size of the hole in the rod and twisted it so it was stretched a little. I used a fine steel pick to stuff it into the rod until it was all the way in. It did seem to take that slightly hollow sound away.


----------



## BayouBob

Ken, have you tried shooting yours with the string stop off? The only sound mine makes with the whiskers and the Expert Pro rest is the string hitting the stop. I know I'm more likely to get wrist slap without it but can you think of any other drawbacks? (Once you have slapped your wrist a few times with a Black Knight II any other seems gentle!)


----------



## gmark

*Fine tuning*

I appreciate the supportive comments, Ken. I found a great shop in the next state. About a 40 mile drive but should well be worth it. I'm printing out everything relevant that you mention in this thread. They are great guys having met them last weekend. I'm going to take an afternoon off of work, take the print out of the thread, and get my bow fine tuned following your methods.

A couple (newbie) questions:
What do speed nocks do exactly? You mentioned that the Destroyers are "sting sensitive". How do these things work? I've seen the G5 speed nocks and just scratched my head. You mentioned you have 3 speed nocks on your string.

Second, how much stabilizer, or what type of stabilizer works best with this bow. I first shot one with nothing on it. It didn't even feel like it needed one. The shop I bought it from put the Limbsaver 4 1/2 X-coil on it. 

I'm going to swap the string stop out with the suggestions mentioned earlier in this thread. Seems everybody thinks the stop is perhaps this biggest noise maker on this bow.

Also, do you think the bowjax on the FLX provides more benefit than the Limbsaver insulator strip? Not sure if any of the Destroyer's you've handled have had that for you to analyze.

One thing is for sure....bowhunting ain't cheap.


----------



## BayouBob

"One thing is for sure....bowhunting ain't cheap." GMARK said a mouthfull there.

Bow.........................900
Rest.........................100
Sight........................100
Stab..........................50
Sling..........................20
Case.........................200
Arrows (mine).............50 each x 12 = 600 (HV's, Nockturnals, Silver Flames)
Quiver........................50
Bag target..................50
Broadhead target.......100
Release.....................100
______
$2,270

That is with middle of the road sight, stab and case and not counting tools like a bow press etc. Of course it doesn't take into account the lease, the camp the 
ATV or the truck!


----------



## BayouBob

Hope nobody's wife reads my last post!


----------



## foudarme

BayouBob said:


> Ken, have you tried shooting yours with the string stop off? The only sound mine makes with the whiskers and the Expert Pro rest is the string hitting the stop. I know I'm more likely to get wrist slap without it but can you think of any other drawbacks? (Once you have slapped your wrist a few times with a Black Knight II any other seems gentle!)



I have tried it a lot when I was tuning it when my own strings was not yet served in these area...it's not a good idea, the bow is much more noisy without the string stopper and the wrist is hurted a lot in the watch's bracelet !!!


----------



## foudarme

gmark said:


> I appreciate the supportive comments, Ken. I found a great shop in the next state. About a 40 mile drive but should well be worth it. I'm printing out everything relevant that you mention in this thread. They are great guys having met them last weekend. I'm going to take an afternoon off of work, take the print out of the thread, and get my bow fine tuned following your methods.
> 
> A couple (newbie) questions:
> What do speed nocks do exactly? You mentioned that the Destroyers are "sting sensitive". How do these things work? I've seen the G5 speed nocks and just scratched my head. You mentioned you have 3 speed nocks on your string.
> 
> Second, how much stabilizer, or what type of stabilizer works best with this bow. I first shot one with nothing on it. It didn't even feel like it needed one. The shop I bought it from put the Limbsaver 4 1/2 X-coil on it.
> 
> I'm going to swap the string stop out with the suggestions mentioned earlier in this thread. Seems everybody thinks the stop is perhaps this biggest noise maker on this bow.
> 
> Also, do you think the bowjax on the FLX provides more benefit than the Limbsaver insulator strip? Not sure if any of the Destroyer's you've handled have had that for you to analyze.
> 
> One thing is for sure....bowhunting ain't cheap.


I don't know how ken considers this "string sensitivity" but according to what I have myself experimented, I get the best results when the string is exactly at 157.2cm (61.88") long what is 6mm (0.23") longer than the recommanded length...the length of the string is the key of the perfect tuning, it takes to me a long time to understand how much important it was....maybe it's linked to the astroflight diameter of the cables which is more important than with the 452 one (but gives a much more pleasant wall and smooth valley plunging) but that the case for me...with the factory cables and string, though your cams are perfectly timed, there is a point to find inside the timing zone (between the dots) where you will find the perfect spot...sometimes though you are percfectly sync and in the timing zone, a single extra twist on each cable provides 7fps of more...I have named it "the right spot"! and the lower you are in the timing zone, the quicker you will find it...just my 2cts


----------



## Bowtech's#1

Just thinking about a new stab and was wanting to know what seems to work the best on the D350. I don't want anything to long. I like the 7 in. range and my primary use is hunting. Any input would be great. Thanks guys.


----------



## baldyhunter

gmark said:


> I appreciate the supportive comments, Ken. I found a great shop in the next state. About a 40 mile drive but should well be worth it. I'm printing out everything relevant that you mention in this thread. They are great guys having met them last weekend. I'm going to take an afternoon off of work, take the print out of the thread, and get my bow fine tuned following your methods.
> 
> A couple (newbie) questions:
> What do speed nocks do exactly? You mentioned that the Destroyers are "sting sensitive". How do these things work? I've seen the G5 speed nocks and just scratched my head. You mentioned you have 3 speed nocks on your string.
> 
> Second, how much stabilizer, or what type of stabilizer works best with this bow. I first shot one with nothing on it. It didn't even feel like it needed one. The shop I bought it from put the Limbsaver 4 1/2 X-coil on it.
> 
> I'm going to swap the string stop out with the suggestions mentioned earlier in this thread. Seems everybody thinks the stop is perhaps this biggest noise maker on this bow.
> 
> Also, do you think the bowjax on the FLX provides more benefit than the Limbsaver insulator strip? Not sure if any of the Destroyer's you've handled have had that for you to analyze.
> 
> One thing is for sure....bowhunting ain't cheap.


1) The bow seems more sensitive to string weight than other bows...which is why I leave everything off the string. Speed nocks are just nocking points applied the ends of the strings toward the cams and covered in shrink tubing. They are the black mass towards the cam on the string on the factory strings. My point was to leave the string alone as much as possible if speed is a priority for you. In my experimentation with cat whiskers on the string I noticed a few things.
a) If you leave the string alone and just apply cat whiskers your in for a speed hit (up to 10 fps depending on where you put them and in what mass). This may be a great trade off for some people and well worth it. But it is something to be aware of. 
b) You can diminish this speed loss by putting the cat whiskers as close to the speed nocks as possible and removing the same amount of weight in speed nocks. So you'll end up with maybe one speed nock (instead of three) on each end and a cat whisker. This'll only cost you a few fps. The weight of the cat whiskers actually is acting as a speed nock.
The point I'm trying to make is that the string has a sweet spot in it as far as weight is concerned and any tinkering with the string by adding weight will cost more speed than other bows...I'ts sensitive to weight.

2) The stabalizer debate is a very subjective one. I have a lot of weight on mine and it took me a lot of time to get used to it. But now every time I try a lighter stab my accuracy takes a hit. I'm using a 17 oz 12" B-stinger. The best way to figure out what works for you is to buy (more money!) a stab like the Doinker Dish or the B-Stinger and play around with the weights. In a nutshell, the best stabalizer length and weight for you is the one that helps you hold the most steady. Or just spend some time at a shop playing around with different stabs. Generally, the more weight you have and the farther you get it away from the bow the more effective it is...but that is being very general.

3) I think the insulator strip would work fine on the FLX and keep a person from having to remove it for application. Also, there is a definite improvement in the noise level of the bow by going to a solid string stop.

Your right about the cash.
This sport is getting crazy expensive!


----------



## gmark

*Just keeps getting better*

That's good info on the timing marks, Foudarme. I watched the recently post videos by Bowtech where the timng marks were mentioned. Figured anything between the dots would be good. Seems like yet again the Destroyer is very fine tunable.

I don't have the press and/or other equipment to make the adjustments mentioned. Which is why I'm taking an afternoon off work to go to The Bow Shop in MS. These guys are great and willing to work with me. They also shoot a Destroyer and are very interested.

Not sure if there's anything I'll be able to add to this great thread after we go through mine. But, I'll be sure to share anything and everything. I don't know that I'll be changing stock strings. Just have to work with 'em.


----------



## baldyhunter

Bowtech's#1 said:


> Just thinking about a new stab and was wanting to know what seems to work the best on the D350. I don't want anything to long. I like the 7 in. range and my primary use is hunting. Any input would be great. Thanks guys.


Pretty subjective but I really like the B-stinger or Doinker Dish style so you can experiment with weight and find out what works for you.


----------



## baldyhunter

foudarme said:


> I don't know how ken considers this "string sensitivity" but according to what I have myself experimented, I get the best results when the string is exactly at 157.2cm (61.88") long what is 6mm (0.23") longer than the recommanded length...the length of the string is the key of the perfect tuning, it takes to me a long time to understand how much important it was....maybe it's linked to the astroflight diameter of the cables which is more important than with the 452 one (but gives a much more pleasant wall and smooth valley plunging) but that the case for me...with the factory cables and string, though your cams are perfectly timed, there is a point to find inside the timing zone (between the dots) where you will find the perfect spot...sometimes though you are percfectly sync and in the timing zone, a single extra twist on each cable provides 7fps of more...I have named it "the right spot"! and the lower you are in the timing zone, the quicker you will find it...just my 2cts


Foudarme,
Good info and I agree. I've played with and tuned a lot of bows and this one is definately more sensitive as far as string mass and small adjustments to timing than other bows. I'm looking foreward to trying Astroflight.
Ken


----------



## baldyhunter

gmark said:


> That's good info on the timing marks, Foudarme. I watched the recently post videos by Bowtech where the timng marks were mentioned. Figured anything between the dots would be good. Seems like yet again the Destroyer is very fine tunable.
> 
> I don't have the press and/or other equipment to make the adjustments mentioned. Which is why I'm taking an afternoon off work to go to The Bow Shop in MS. These guys are great and willing to work with me. They also shoot a Destroyer and are very interested.
> 
> Not sure if there's anything I'll be able to add to this great thread after we go through mine. But, I'll be sure to share anything and everything. I don't know that I'll be changing stock strings. Just have to work with 'em.



The stock strings are good so don't worry about using them. Let us know how it goes. If you want my phone number to take with you to the shop pm me. I've helped a few other guys explain things to their shop with good results. The key is to tart with the arrow straight down the center of the riser and adjust the yokes to get it shooting perfect there.
Ken


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## trophyhill

i love the title to this thread. i have one tuned to perfection. just put custom strings and cables on. the material is the excel brand and built by a local guy here in Albuquerque, NM. Nice Archery. his user name on AT is NMArcherPro. he built a 24 strand string and cables. after he was done with it and took the first shot thru paper, it was a bullet hole. this bow was out of spec, for the most part due to string stretch on the original string after 8-10,000 shots before having this done. now the axle to axle is right on the money and back to spec and i should be good for another 8-10,000 shots. man i love this bow. i took a few shots yesterday evening with it and didn't even have to adjust my sites, like i never missed a beat with it.

my observation while watching the process is that the bow is very finicky when going for the final tune as far as twisting the cables and getting the peep site into position by twisting the string but once its there, it is there. 

my string and cables are one solid color, blood red, and it looks sweeeeeeeeet. i have a "supertuned" D350 and love it!


----------



## baldyhunter

trophyhill said:


> i love the title to this thread. i have one tuned to perfection. just put custom strings and cables on. the material is the excel brand and built by a local guy here in Albuquerque, NM. Nice Archery. his user name on AT is NMArcherPro. he built a 24 strand string and cables. after he was done with it and took the first shot thru paper, it was a bullet hole. this bow was out of spec, for the most part due to string stretch on the original string after 8-10,000 shots before having this done. now the axle to axle is right on the money and back to spec and i should be good for another 8-10,000 shots. man i love this bow. i took a few shots yesterday evening with it and didn't even have to adjust my sites, like i never missed a beat with it.
> 
> my observation while watching the process is that the bow is very finicky when going for the final tune as far as twisting the cables and getting the peep site into position by twisting the string but once its there, it is there.
> 
> my string and cables are one solid color, blood red, and it looks sweeeeeeeeet. i have a "supertuned" D350 and love it!


It is finicky! 1/2 twists make a very big difference! You've also hit on something else. Bowtech does have the best factory strings...but I'd take a good aftermarket set any day of the week. There is still a lot of settling and pulling tight and stretch in the factory strings. You'll have to tune it several times to get it good. Aftermarket strings are just more stable. Glad it's shooting great for you!
Ken


----------



## wild thang

My D350 seems to be very sensitive to arrow & spine change. I originally set the bow and paper tuned using a 10 gpi 340 Easton arrow cut 27 1/2". I checked the paper tune with my new 8.9 gpi 337 spine Maxima Hunter arrows cut 28" and found that I had a slight left tear and had to adjust the cam lean to eliminate. I just walk back tuned the bow to 50 yards and will not have to make any adjustments. After a small sight adjustment I will be ready to broadhead tune. I do not expect any adjustment will be necessary because after paper and walk back tuning my bows the Rage 2 blade ( and other broadheads for that matter ) always seem to be right on.


----------



## deerheaven

Bowtech's#1 said:


> Just thinking about a new stab and was wanting to know what seems to work the best on the D350. I don't want anything to long. I like the 7 in. range and my primary use is hunting. Any input would be great. Thanks guys.


Octane,,,:thumbs_up


----------



## trophyhill

baldyhunter said:


> It is finicky! 1/2 twists make a very big difference! You've also hit on something else. Bowtech does have the best factory strings...but I'd take a good aftermarket set any day of the week. There is still a lot of settling and pulling tight and stretch in the factory strings. You'll have to tune it several times to get it good. Aftermarket strings are just more stable. Glad it's shooting great for you!
> Ken


thanks Ken and you are exactly right when you talk about 1/2 a twist because sometimes it may only need 1/4 twist and the way one side of the yoke is not wound as tight as the other, it really is a painstaking process. Robert at Nice Archery was patient and worked this bow to perfection. he has a verticle draw board that he made just for these kinds of delicate and touchy bows, and that has a regular horizontal draw board beat hands down, especially when timing the cams and checking for lean. (and if your whisker biscuit is on it forget about the flat drawboard)at full draw on the vertical draw board you can work the draw cycle to perfection while watching the timing "tit" (for lack of a better word) and when the string makes contact with it at full draw. and you have to and can very easily with a verticle board, watch for cam lean. which requires more cable twisting or untwisting.

this is when the cables look like they need a 1/2 turn and a half turn is a 1/4 turn too much so you just have to work both sides of the yoke and both ends of the bow too until you get it right. and believe me you'll know when you get it right.

this is the part that can really drive technicians nuts if they are the impatient type, but when its tuned like this and the first shot you take thru paper when it comes off the press and board is a bullet hole, it is well worth the effort.


----------



## foudarme

baldyhunter said:


> Nice bow Jean and awesome shooting! I think I see and Astroflight trial in my future. Thanks for the pics and info.
> Ken


my last french roe deer, killed a few days ago while walking and stalking during my hollydays...just for the AT friends!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## baldyhunter

That's awesome Jean! We're just starting to get our bows ready for season here in the USA. I've still got a month and a half before the opener...can't wait.
Ken


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## dzingale

Ttt


----------



## jmpen

I tried posting this in its own thread but got no reply. If our destroyers are so tunable at the yoke is there anyone who has any of the spott hogg cable adjusters laying around? Can you still get them from SH? Seems like they would be the perfect fit to the destroyer.


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## NJBuckBuster

This is a great thread... Let's keep it up for all us Destroyer 350 owners.

I have about 2 weeks left yet as my opener is September 11 and I have yet to do my other Destroyer 350.

NJBB


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## 176"buck

Great post and great info.No bull or bashing just good info on setup of a very popular bow.This is the kind of post that is a usefull tool for guys wanting to learn from others.


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## TozerBGood

foudarme said:


> my last french roe deer, killed a few days ago while walking and stalking during my hollydays...just for the AT friends!
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Nice shooting. But you didn't use your Destroyer!

Hey how did France get their deer to be so small? I bet the meat is tender though.


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## foudarme

TozerBGood said:


> Nice shooting. But you didn't use your Destroyer!
> 
> Hey how did France get their deer to be so small? I bet the meat is tender though.


I will kill the next one with my destroyer I promised to myself...I am preparing a special hunting arrow for that with EFOC, it takes time....indeed our roe deers are small, no more than 30 kilos for the biggest and 23 for the average one...if not we have much more bigger stags and hinds but the tags are very expensive (around 1800 usd) and I can't afford them....the roe deer is a very interesting game, very wild and careful, easy to hunt from a TS (cause fair sedentary often on a small territory) but very difficult while walking and stalking except in june when the grass is very high in the fields..it jumps the string very easily and can avoid a 250fps arrow if it sees it arriving...the meal is tender if you kill a young one...if it is old it's just like eating an old goat!


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## baldyhunter

Hey Jean,
I'm trying an Astro Flight experiment now. So far I really like the material. I'll be checking speeds shortly.
Ken


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## foudarme

hi ken...how many strands have you retained for the cables?


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## pbusanga

TozerBGood said:


> I took BaldyHunter's write-up and put in into a word doc that's a little easier to follow. If you have MS Office, you can download my edited version of BaldyHunter's write-up here. It's basically the same write-up, only I broke it up into paragraphs, and put the pics in the relevant locations. (No I'm not BaldyHunter's editor! I just thought it was an outstanding thread, and worth saving).
> 
> Just hope that it helps someone.
> 
> Thanks for posting this BaldyHunter. Top notch and a class act IMO! It's definitely going into my keeper files.


Hi since we have moved server i cant download this file ( i got to 94% just before severs were changed on Sunday [email protected]#n) could someone help or email to me if you already have it...thanks


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## baldyhunter

Jean,
I used 20 strands for the cables and 18 for the string. It worked well but I've not been able to find any speed gains over 452X or Trophy. I did try a 24 strand 452X cable system as well and it was actually faster with the heavier cables so I'm thinking my finished set may be 24 strands of 452X for cables coupled with 18 strands of Astro Flight for the strings.... but I've found some great speeds as well with 22 strands of Trophy with a reduced twist rate which is very promising. I wish I had 5 bows and unlimited time!


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## foudarme

ken...I have ended with the same conclusions as you: with my chrono I am 350fps IBO with the astroflight and a little more with 8125 (352)...for me the best combinaison should be some 452 cables and an astroflight string but I find the bow less noisy with the astroflight cables...I haven't yet used the trophy, it will be for later!


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## turkeykiller22

Cool thread thanks for sharing!


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## ski patrol

when twisting the yoke to bring the rest to center,how much cam lean will there be??
I cant get the rest to come to center without the worry of cam lean


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## ski patrol

its a 340 with stock strings...sorry


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## baldyhunter

ski patrol said:


> when twisting the yoke to bring the rest to center,how much cam lean will there be??
> I cant get the rest to come to center without the worry of cam lean


I wish it were that simple! I've had them tune anywhere from an arrow led against the left side of the top cam hitting just below the peep to parallel with the string! It depends on your form, arrows, follow through, etc. Set it at center and tune the yoke till it shoots bullit holes!


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## Frederick D. Be

Ken,
As usual, you have given others some very good information. I used this information in order to get the cams to the correct position on my 340...one twist to the left upper cam is all that it took. You obviously take it a step further than most. Ever consider crackerizing bows on the side? Cheers and thanks.
Fred


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## baldyhunter

Frederick D. Be said:


> Ken,
> As usual, you have given others some very good information. I used this information in order to get the cams to the correct position on my 340...one twist to the left upper cam is all that it took. You obviously take it a step further than most. Ever consider crackerizing bows on the side? Cheers and thanks.
> Fred


Thanks Frederick,
I've already got that in the works. If you click on my signature link I'm now selling custom strings and I specialize in Destroyers. I'm currently (with the help of lillbuck) getting some real speed gains over stock rigging with heavier and more stable string sets. I also accept all types of bows for strings and tuning. I just need a mascott or a logo to really get things rolling.....hmmm think I may start a thread!


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## IL 88

ttt for IMO one of the best threads on AT

Like someone else said, no bashing or BS just a lot of great info. :thumbs_up


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## Pizonarcher

Any staff shooters for 2011 bows ?. :smile:


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## Rolandd

God there is almost information overload in this thread! This is my first dual cam bow and understand the concepts of timing and cam lean, but really have no idea how to accurately measure both. Maybe someone can explain it for us lamens. I just took my bow back to the dealer, to check measurements, timing, cam lean, and rest set up now that I have the bow shot in (500+ shots). I have no lean, stops hit at exactly the same time, my peep is still perfect, my DW is 72 vs 73 brand spanking new, and it shoots awesome (when my form is correct). Is this strange? I see everyone having to do all this tweaking in this thread.


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## baldyhunter

Pizonarcher said:


> Any staff shooters for 2011 bows ?. :smile:


I might be interested in picking a few up! I'll shoot you a pm when I get the time!
Ken


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## baldyhunter

Rolandd said:


> God there is almost information overload in this thread! This is my first dual cam bow and understand the concepts of timing and cam lean, but really have no idea how to accurately measure both. Maybe someone can explain it for us lamens. I just took my bow back to the dealer, to check measurements, timing, cam lean, and rest set up now that I have the bow shot in (500+ shots). I have no lean, stops hit at exactly the same time, my peep is still perfect, my DW is 72 vs 73 brand spanking new, and it shoots awesome (when my form is correct). Is this strange? I see everyone having to do all this tweaking in this thread.


Man if it shoots good for you just go kill something! LOL You've got a point. Sometimes archers make mountains of mole hills. As long as the bow walk back tunes it's good to go for 90% of all archers. If you plan on doing stuff like shooting fixed blade braodheads at long distances (50 yards and beyond) pay attention. This bow can get you there while tuning right down the center of the riser...very noteworthy and extremely uncommon.


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## IL 88

baldyhunter said:


> Man if it shoots good for you just go kill something! LOL You've got a point. Sometimes archers make mountains of mole hills. As long as the bow walk back tunes it's good to go for 90% of all archers. If you plan on doing stuff like shooting fixed blade braodheads at long distances (50 yards and beyond) pay attention. This bow can get you there while tuning right down the center of the riser...very noteworthy and extremely uncommon.


...and that is what I love about it.


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## Rolandd

baldyhunter said:


> Man if it shoots good for you just go kill something! LOL You've got a point. Sometimes archers make mountains of mole hills. As long as the bow walk back tunes it's good to go for 90% of all archers. If you plan on doing stuff like shooting fixed blade braodheads at long distances (50 yards and beyond) pay attention. This bow can get you there while tuning right down the center of the riser...very noteworthy and extremely uncommon.


Thanks, I plan on it!! LOL. I was just out shooting and this thing is just stacking arrows at 40.


----------



## PASSTHROUGH

*Press.....*

I have read through most of the posts in this thread.....The reason being is I just picked up a new Destroyer 340 over the weekend. :teeth:

I just love to do my own super tuning. Al the bows I've had in the past could be tweaked with my portable bowmaster press or limb bolts backed out. With the Destroyer my bowmaster will be useless. I see bowmaster offers a new "split limb" adapter but it appears as if the way it is designed it would contact the axle on the destroyer.

My question is....Is there a portable press out there that will SAFELY press the Destroyer?? Nighthawk?? They claim to have arms to do the destroyer. I don't have the option of going to the shop and using their press to do my tweeking, I'm anal and it's too far. I don't have the extra money to spring for a last chance press right now.

Glen


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## TeamDestroyer

whats the cost of the toad press i read in the first page ???


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## gc1

In responce to passthrough, I have pressed my 350 and a couple 340s with the nighthawk press. I think that the limbs should be backed down before pressing but it works great.


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## Liv2Hunt8

Dude, Nice rig what sight do you have on it?


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## Liv2Hunt8

What sight is on the bow?
Nice rig by the way


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## baldyhunter

I have a Viper quicktune. It allows me to shoot out to 120 yards if I want to play around and for hunting I can lock it down as a 5 pin sight. It is also very economical for what it does.
Ken


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## L.I.Archer

Excellent write-up on yoke-tuning. I had to do that with my D350 by (eventually) putting 6 twists on the left yoke to bring my cams inward towards the riser more and with my rest at perfect centershot, it blew a perfect hole at 5 ft and 5 yards. At first, I put 2 twists and shot it 3 times. The third time, it started tearing left again, so I put it back in the press and put another twist on, then shot it 3 more times. The first two shots were perfect, then the 3rd shot would tear slightly left. Eventually, I ended up putting 6 twists on the left (grey) yoke and shot 3 arrows and there was no more left tear. I shot a few more and that was it; that's where it settled. I noticed exactly what you said about the arrows touching the string near the peep when placed on the left side of the cam and that's exactly where my arrow touched my string when I did that.


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## L.I.Archer

Oh, and the split yoke cables that came with my bow already had the halo serving on them, right from the factory.


----------



## L.I.Archer

Pizonarcher said:


> Thanks for the prompt reply.
> Here is more info on my setup:
> I did serve the yokes about a month ago & been shooting it that long, cables seem the be settled down, they did stretch some. I have a fall away (Arc)set on with 7/8 center shot, Did the walk back tune with good results The ata is exactly the same on both sides. I have moved the rest to right 1/2 " & made no difference in the 3/4 left tear, using GT 22 series arrows @ 60# so they are stiff which would give a right tear but I'm getting a left. .
> I noticed on the cams, on the left side there are 2 little white etched timing marks by the mod screw, closer to the inside of the slot, they are exactly the same on my bow, so it is in perfect time.
> The bow really shoots good but I have been getting some left flyer's for some reason when I know made a good shot.
> I did notice when I moved the center shot to right the bow shot just as good no mater where center shot was
> I have a limbdriver coming next week so I am going to try it first before I do the twisting on the yokes.
> I will tune in with the results.


I timed my cams at full draw on a drawboard. Because the nocking point on the string isn't exactly at the midpoint of the string, the drawstops on the cams will touch the cables at at different times regardless of whether or not the cam's timing dots are equal. With my D350, the timing dots on one cam are under the cable and on the other cam, the cable is right between the two timing dots, but the bow is blowing perfect holes and grouping 2" at 60 yards.


----------



## ab2

To the original poster of this thread..

I am considering getting the Bowtech Destroyer 350 or the Mathews z7. You had mentioned you got your arrow/string almost perfectly lined up with the sites. Now my question is this. Are the cams exactly centered on the limbs where the grove of the cam/string is exactly centered on the limb? Most bows I have seen don't have cams that are centered. Some are offset so that is why when you lined the pins up with the string/arrow your arrow tends to shoot to the right. Any insight?


----------



## Destroyeryan

Baldyhunter,

You are the man!.. I had all of the aforementioned issues that you had with my 350. I followed your direction and I am throwing a perfect Magnus Stinger 2 bladed Mayhem Hunter 350 out to 60 yards! WOW...great info and thanks for the detail and pics!

-R


----------



## poole

*D350 Tuning*

Just picked up a 350 the other day. Finished tuning this morning. This is my all time best group at 70 yards (72 actually). Prior to this my best was with an 82nd. I think it was like a pie plate sized group.

I think the destroyer's combined with baldyhunter's tuning is a winner!!


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## flyboy9994

Just got my new 2010 D340 home and am in the process of recording all the inital factory settings before I start tuning. I have read the most excellent article by BaldyHunter about tuning the Destroyer to perfection and I will be using his methods of yoke tuning.

The bow is set at 28" DL and 60 lbs DW.

My questions pertain to the yokes themselves. When measuring the distance of the yokes, the top and bottom are a full 1 inch difference from each other. The top yoke is 1 full inch longer than the bottom yoke.

Top Yoke length: 6 1/8" from center of axle to end of "Y"
Bottom Yoke length: 5 1/8" from center of axle to end of "Y"

Is this normal for these bows straight out of the box??

Also, the cams definitely need some lean correction and the timing is slightly off which I will adjust but I want to make sure this is the norm before I get started twisting!! Thanks.

P.S. My yokes are NOT served at the "Y" so I'm guessing this is an early 2010 bow?? Should I try and get the "Y" section of the yokes equal length before I serve them in place??


----------



## camowraper007

I Got my strings today from baldy they look great. baldy is a great guy to work with he has been on the phone for the last few days helping us with my biz partners 350. he knows his stuff and can makes great strings cant wait to shoot !


----------



## baldyhunter

camowraper007 said:


> I Got my strings today from baldy they look great. baldy is a great guy to work with he has been on the phone for the last few days helping us with my biz partners 350. he knows his stuff and can makes great strings cant wait to shoot !


Thanks for saying that! I think that black/flo orange set looked pretty sweet before it left. I'll have a wrist sling headed your way soon!
Ken


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## foudarme

TozerBGood said:


> Nice shooting. But you didn't use your Destroyer!
> 
> Hey how did France get their deer to be so small? I bet the meat is tender though.


it has taken to me a little bit of time for this third french roe deer of the year, but I did it and, now, with my destroyer !

*before, on may*:



*after, this morning!*:


----------



## LebeauHunter

Foudarme,

Very cool with the before and after pics. Interesting looking little deer!


----------



## bess227

I can attest to what Ken knows about that 350. I stood beside him and watched him group arrows tightly at 40 yards last week, that was after spending 4 or 5 hours working on bows constantly. arrow flight was perfect. 

The man knows what he is doing. 

Makes some great strings too......has some issues with "Teal" though. :wink:

Thanks again for all the hard work Ken.


----------



## Dobbs Swamp

Baldy, I'm a lefty so when I start tweaking the top cam it should be opposite of the wAy you did it? Top cam should be leaning top right?


----------



## Out West

Posting so I can find this again..... Thanks for the info....


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## BC Boy

baldyhunter said:


> In my first post My personal bow tuned well with the arrow hitting just under the peep. But the ones I've tuned since then have all come into tune with the arrow hitting the string just above the center serving...so this is where I've been recommending people start now. Both cam angles should be as close to even as you can get them before you start. I know it's hard to get perfect on the bottom because the string stop is in the way and on some of them it's a pain to remove...but try to get the top contacting just above the center serving and the bottom as close to that same amount of lean as you can. One good method is to set your top...measure how far the arrow contacts the string from the top cam...then place that measurement on the lower portion of the string (tape) and adjust the bottom lean till it hits that spot. Once you get the first adjustment in just keep making the exact same adjustments on top and bottom and they'll stay the same.
> Ken


Is the lower cam leaning the same direction as the top one? A mirror of the top?


----------



## baldyhunter

BC Boy said:


> Is the lower cam leaning the same direction as the top one? A mirror of the top?


Yep. top of top cam leaning to the left as you shoot the bow....and the bottom of the bottom cam leaning left as you shoot the bow. Both cams lean away from the FLX guard.


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## BC Boy

Thank for sharing your knowledge, Derrick.


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## Bwana

Great info !!!


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## TozerBGood

> Originally Posted by TozerBGood
> I took BaldyHunter's write-up and put in into a word doc that's a little easier to follow. If you have MS Office, you can download my edited version of BaldyHunter's write-up here. It's basically the same write-up, only I broke it up into paragraphs, and put the pics in the relevant locations. (No I'm not BaldyHunter's editor! I just thought it was an outstanding thread, and worth saving).
> 
> Just hope that it helps someone.
> 
> Thanks for posting this BaldyHunter. Top notch and a class act IMO! It's definitely going into my keeper files.





pbusanga said:


> Hi since we have moved server i cant download this file ( i got to 94% just before severs were changed on Sunday [email protected]#n) could someone help or email to me if you already have it...thanks


pbusanga - it downloads fine for me. I have it saved in my online storage at Comcast (my ISP service). So not sure why you can't d/L? Maybe Comcast had a server problem when you were trying to d/L it. Try it again, and if it doesn't d/L for you, then send me a PM with your email address and I'll send it to you.


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## TozerBGood

PASSTHROUGH said:


> My question is....Is there a portable press out there that will SAFELY press the Destroyer?? Nighthawk?? They claim to have arms to do the destroyer. I don't have the option of going to the shop and using their press to do my tweeking, I'm anal and it's too far. I don't have the extra money to spring for a last chance press right now.
> 
> Glen


Didn't you already ask me about this before?








[/QUOTE]


----------



## BC Boy

how did you figure to place the limb adapters? Should the bottom of the adapter be closer to the cam on the thicker part of the limb or is this the placement the manufactuer recommends? thanks.


----------



## TozerBGood

BC Boy said:


> how did you figure to place the limb adapters? Should the bottom of the adapter be closer to the cam on the thicker part of the limb or is this the placement the manufactuer recommends? thanks.


You should probably ask the manufacturer of the NiteHawk press (Ken Johnson - he's here on AT). 

I placed the clamps far enough extended out on the limbs so there would be enough clearance for the cams to roll. The outer clamp (which can slide) I have placed just under the cam shaft housing. The bow was not damaged by the pressing. The bottom clamps are extended to then end length of the press towards the bow limb pockets.

I had the press before I bought the D350. So when Ken Johnson saw on AT that I had bought a Destroyer, he asked me to take some measurements. So I worked with Ken by trial and error to get the proper size rubber booted feet to give enough clearance over the cam shaft housing. Ken didn't have a Destroyer to experiment on, so I took bow measurements, and he made the parts and mailed them to me. It took about 2 or 3 attempts to get something that worked.


----------



## BC Boy

Thanks for the reply, I just ordered th nitehawk press two days ago. Will the standard nitehawk fit the destroyer or do I need to contact Ken to get some custom parts? thanks.


----------



## TozerBGood

BC Boy said:


> Thanks for the reply, I just ordered th nitehawk press two days ago. Will the standard nitehawk fit the destroyer or do I need to contact Ken to get some custom parts? thanks.


I don't know how he does that - whether it comes with standard attachments to fit every single bow on the market, but I doubt it. The cam shaft being on the outside of the limb was a new Idea when BT came out with the Destroyer. Yes...you should send Ken Johnson a PM and ask him about any adapters needed, letting him know you have a Destroyer.


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## TozerBGood

Ha! Ha! 
Here's my first attempt at a SloMo closeup of my D350 Arrow release. Picture's kind of grainy - anyways here it is.


----------



## deerheaven

Tozer watch them fingers with a broadhead brother,,,duckem:amen:


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## TozerBGood

deerheaven said:


> Tozer watch them fingers with a broadhead brother,,,duckem:amen:


Alway do bro! The Angle of the camera makes it look worse than it actually is.


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## TozerBGood

Watch that flex gaurd closely as the arrow releases.


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## TozerBGood

Someone pointed out how the text coming down just before the arrow release was disconcerting. So I fixed it.

Here's the re-edited version - old version deleted.


----------



## R0CKETMAN

Bumble Bee or Rubber band.....I can't decide, but I must get rid of this sound on my D350. It's mostly audible, but slight feel as well. 

I've got a sims strip and a small quad on the FLX. Is it the FLX, String, both? Do I need a different string stop? 

Please help and thanks for your thoughts and advice.
RM


----------



## hoekma

I used this press and had a lot of luck with it, but it needs to be in the right position. You want to move the press as close to the ends of limbs as possible so the stops are touching the black axle brackets. If they are any farther back, then there isn't enough clearance between the axle and the bowpress to get the cable loops on and off because the arms will flex toward the axle when the bow is pressed. I learned this the hard way when I was able to the cable off but could not get it back onto the axle. BTW -- if you get into this situation, rather than trying to use a screw-driver to squeeze the cable back onto the axle, I recommend removing the little washers on the end of the axle, sliding the cable-loop holder off, and then put the cable back on it and reinstalling the washer. This is better than trying to push the cable loop back in there with a screwdriver or something that might damage the cable loop. But if you are careful to position the bowpress correctly and take your time, you probably won't have this problem. 

Also, make sure the bow-press is centered side-to-side on the limbs to prevent any torquing. 





BC Boy said:


> how did you figure to place the limb adapters? Should the bottom of the adapter be closer to the cam on the thicker part of the limb or is this the placement the manufactuer recommends? thanks.


----------



## hoekma

I just got done doing the super-tune (minus the cat-whiskers) and am wondering what others are getting for speed? 

Here's my setup:

Factory string with factory speed nocks & silencers
I served the "Y"
G5 Peep
397 grain arrow 
26.5" draw 
Just over 70lbs 
275.5 fps

Does that seem about right?


----------



## TozerBGood

Whew...that sounds like a major vendetta. I just broke down and ordered an LCA EZ press - it's supposed to arrive next week.



hoekma said:


> I used this press and had a lot of luck with it, but it needs to be in the right position. You want to move the press as close to the ends of limbs as possible so the stops are touching the black axle brackets. If they are any farther back, then there isn't enough clearance between the axle and the bowpress to get the cable loops on and off because the arms will flex toward the axle when the bow is pressed. I learned this the hard way when I was able to the cable off but could not get it back onto the axle. BTW -- if you get into this situation, rather than trying to use a screw-driver to squeeze the cable back onto the axle, I recommend removing the little washers on the end of the axle, sliding the cable-loop holder off, and then put the cable back on it and reinstalling the washer. This is better than trying to push the cable loop back in there with a screwdriver or something that might damage the cable loop. But if you are careful to position the bowpress correctly and take your time, you probably won't have this problem.
> 
> Also, make sure the bow-press is centered side-to-side on the limbs to prevent any torquing.


----------



## TozerBGood

Can't really compare since I have a D350, but can tell you the before/after numbers. Earlier this year I measured before and after changing strings/cables with ones I got from Ken, and then did the tuning thang. You can see in post 212 of this thread.

With 423g arrows, 30" dl, 64.5lb……. (Speed before strings & tune 305-307 fps), (Speed after strings & tune 310-313 fps).




hoekma said:


> I just got done doing the super-tune (minus the cat-whiskers) and am wondering what others are getting for speed?
> 
> Here's my setup:
> 
> Factory string with factory speed nocks & silencers
> I served the "Y"
> G5 Peep
> 397 grain arrow
> 26.5" draw
> Just over 70lbs
> 275.5 fps
> 
> Does that seem about right?


----------



## hoekma

Yeah, after reading my response today, I guess I made it sound pretty complicated. It's really a very easy-to-use and highly portable bow-press. Hopefully my post didn't dissuade you.



TozerBGood said:


> Whew...that sounds like a major vendetta. I just broke down and ordered an LCA EZ press - it's supposed to arrive next week.


----------



## hoekma

Man I envy you guys with long arms! Even though it's apples and oranges as far as bows & setup go, I figure if I add 10 fps for the difference in DL, I'm at around 310 with my setup at 30". No idea how to correct for the shorter brace, heavier arrow and lighter draw. Any other guys with short DL and 340's out there with this setup?  I think I need to go hang on the jungle gym to stretch my arms to get back the 11% loss in fps! 




TozerBGood said:


> Can't really compare since I have a D350, but can tell you the before/after numbers. Earlier this year I measured before and after changing strings/cables with ones I got from Ken, and then did the tuning thang. You can see in post 212 of this thread.
> 
> With 423g arrows, 30" dl, 64.5lb……. (Speed before strings & tune 305-307 fps), (Speed after strings & tune 310-313 fps).


----------



## donkey1

baldyhunter said:


> OK. I've been meaning to write this for a while now but haven't found the time. This is kind of an information dump on what I've learned about the bow so far and how/why I've been tuning it. This thread isn't a review other than to say that I love mine and have had zero issues with it so far.
> Since I got the bow three weeks ago I have installed two different sets of strings and cables on it (my own) and have tuned it from scratch three different times so I am speaking form more experience in tuning this bow than most. The first two pictures are of the bow in its current iteration. The strings I've made for it are black/flame with clear roller guard servings. I like the looks a tad better than the stockers but opinions...opinions. The strings are 20 strands of 452-x and the cables are 24. Everything is served with .014 Halo. I would like to point out how well the factory strings are made with one exception. Usually I can make a good pre-stretched set and see some immediate speed gains but that was simply not the case here. I made two different sets and played around with speed nocks for hours at a time (probably five or six all told) and could not find more than one or maybe two fps over the stock rigging. This speaks of how good the stock strings are. I did dislike one thing however. While I was tuning with the stock strings I did notice a need to "shoot in" the cables several times after each adjustment. Even then when I'd leave the bow for extended periods there was some movement as things settled over night. I believe that the "y" not being served on the cables was the culprit. When it isn't served the cable has two settle in two areas with each adjustment...it has to equalize at the legs then that pressure has two equalize within the entire strand bundle itself. Both the sets I made are served at the "y" and I didn't notice this tendency at all with mine. I simply made adjustments shot twice to settle and they stayed put. Therefore, if you like to tune your own equipment and tinker with your bows I believe you are better off with either a served "y" or a floating yoke. People that are keeping the stock strings may want to get the "y" served on the stock rigging. Also, while on the topic, I'd like to note how very sensitive this bow is to string weight. This is something to consider for hunters in particular. With the stock strings I put cat whisker silencers on the ends of each serving and in the normal mass. The bow dropped 8 to 10 fps!! I was able to get that drop significantly less by reducing the number of speed nocks to one per side and placing the silencers on the ends of the servings. This netted a 4fps loss but did help quiet the bow. The point is if you are going to put silencers on the string without compensating for the added weight expect dramatic speed losses. I've never personally seen a bow this sensitive to string weight. In the pictures you ca see that I came to the same conclusion Bowtech did...leave the silencers off the string or you'll suffer some speed loss.
> Now to tuning. Probably the single most important observation I can pass on to my fellow AT'rs is how very dramatic small adjustments make on this bow. As far as the split yokes go 1/2 turn adjustments at a time make a huge impact on tuning results so be carefull and always keep the big picture (ATA and specs) in mind while twisting. I would also like to note that I m a perfectionist when it comes to tuning and I see no reason why any of these bows shouldn't tune dead down center if you know how to yoke tune. I always tune my bows so that all three major tuning methods (paper, walk back, braodhead) complement one another. If I have to compromise one tuning method to get another in then I usually know my arrow spine is off which brings me to setup.
> Im using GT .340 spine arrows cut short (26.5") with a 100 grain tip. This arrow is approximately 381 grains. The bow is set at 67lbs with a 28" draw. I did chrono this setup with an IBO weight arrow at around (average) 328fps with a loaded string (mine) which puts it about 1 or 2 fps faster than the IBO rating.
> The first picture that relates to tuning shows what I believe is the best starting point for pre-angle for the split yoke/cam combo. This picture shows an arrow held flat against the upper cam like most tuners do for Mathew's idler lean placement. I start by placing the arrow rest exactly at center shot then work the cam angles into that position. I've found that the top cam needs to start top left so that the arrow held against it's left side meets the string just below my peep sight ( about 6.25" above center of nocking point). I hope you all can see what I'm getting at in the picture. Once this is set and I have both cams set at the same angle and my ATA and other specs are in as well including a good initial timing and synchronizing of the cams I begin with bare shafts through paper at about 5 yards. The reason I do this is because it shows very clear and immediate results for each change you make. Shoot and see what's happening and take care of the easy nock high or low adjusment first. With my setup a tail right tear was lessened by a half twist in each right yoke. The key is to use only 1/2 twists at a time and you'll be amazed at how much of a difference these small adjustments make and you'll see if the tear is getting smaller or larger then move again. If your trying to keep your timing exact once you see where you have to go with your static cam angle you can twist 1/2 in one side then if more is needed twist 1/2 out of the other thus moving the cam angle but keeping the overall cable length the same. You will soon reach a point where your tail right becomes a tail left (within three or four half twists in each of my cases) or vice versa depending on your situation. Now just note which position had the shortest tear and leave it in that position. Now all you have to do is make very very very slight adjustments to your rest to get perfect holes. I moved my rest maybe 1/64" or less and it took out the remaining 1/4" right tear. If it's a crappy day you can move back to 7 yards like I did and really fine tune it. The fourth picture is of paper tuning results at 7 yards in my garage. I've found if you can get bare shafts and fletched arrows to shoot perfect holes from 9 ft to 7 yards you will rarely have to move anything more than a very small fraction of an inch for any of the other tuning methods.
> Now it's time to go outside. The fifth picture shows the results of my bare shaft and walkback tuning. When I was only bare shaft tuning the bare shaft was flying so straight I was nock hitting with the bare shaft!! I did make a very very small bump tho the right to achieve this (so small it was hardly noticeable). The walkback tuning fell straight in line with no adjustment at all after I bare shaft tuned at 20 yards with the small adjustment noted. Some people may get picky and tell me I needed another bump back to the left but plaes note that a) all these arrows are within 3/4" vertically back to 40 yards and thats great shooting for me so I wasn't ready to adjust based on that b) there was a steady wind in the direction of the slant and c) I saw how straght the bare shafts were flying. I decided to check with 50 yard fixed blade braodhead tuning and those results are in the next picture. Needless to say I was very pleased. Impact points were exactly the same at fifty yards and I have since checked at 60 with the same results. The only adjusment I made after paper tuning was probably a less than 1/64" bump right.
> The last shot is my favorite and in my opinion proof that Bowtech is on to something special this year. Unless you tune alot of bows you probably will never know how rare this shot is. It's like a Unicorn or a five leaf clover...many of us have heard of it but never actually seen it. I'ts incredible that you can tune a bow this well adn have everything line up this well. The nock point is almost level with the berger holes; the arrow is lined up straight down the center lining up with the stabalizer and amazingly the sight pins are in perfect alignment with the arrow. I can tell you from experience that there are very very few bows that will do this and shoot this well to boot.
> Last two short comments. When drawing the bow there is no noticeable "twist" in your hand when the cables begin to take weight like alot of modern bows. I have never slapped my arm with this 6" brace bow yet and I've shot alot outside with a heavy coat on.
> THE END



Thanks baldyhunter......
I just purchased Destroyer and could not get rid of the right tear to save my butt. So I ordered the new Nite Hawk bow press which works perfectly on the destroyers and tuned per your notes. Now my bow shoots perfectly with rest set up dead nuts center shot. I can't thank you enough for your help and appreciate the education.


----------



## TozerBGood

Donkey1 -You should probably know, that if your bow is under warranty, and BT ever finds out you pressed it or did any tweaking yourself (instead of using an authorized BT dealer, regardless of what kind of press), that in itself will most likely void the warranty.
Read through this lengthy thread to see what I mean... http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1385081




donkey1 said:


> Thanks baldyhunter......
> I just purchased Destroyer and could not get rid of the right tear to save my butt. So I ordered the new Nite Hawk bow press which works perfectly on the destroyers and tuned per your notes. Now my bow shoots perfectly with rest set up dead nuts center shot. I can't thank you enough for your help and appreciate the education.


----------



## donkey1

Thanks for the heads up but i've been through this before. Two notes here. 1st you need to work with a large Bowtech dealer as very small dealers don't pull as much weight. This is normal and is the same for most all bow companies. The dealers that sell the most get the most attention its just part of business. However, its also wise to make sure no marks are left on your bow which always totally eliminates the tell tell sign of it being tinkered with. No marks no evidence. You make a good point though and thanks for the info.


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## Jerry/NJ

What a great thread!! Kudos Ken :thumbs_up


----------



## trophyhill

great thread Baldyhunter,

i also use 24 strand for my cables and 20 for my string. i tried 24 for my string and the speed loss was incredible, so i had another 20 strand built and put on. Excel brand string/cables. i have had my D350 since thanksgiving of '09 so (my bow technician) has had plenty of time to learn how to dial this bow in to "perfection" and now can tune it in 30 minutes or less. we served the "Y" at one point but i didn't like the overall tuning results so we got rid of that serving. your accessment of the factory string is quite accurate. i did not like the constant stretch or "creep" of the factory string. there is no doubt in my mind that even as good as the factory string was (8-10,000 shots) the factory string was "i believe" the source of a high maintanance bow when it came to tuning. 

and what i mean by this is due to the constant stretch of the string. the first thing i would notice is my peep not quite coming around to square. this was the first indication "for me". any time i noticed this i made a visit to my bow mechanic (Robert at Nice Archery in Albuquerque) and the first thing we check is the axle to axle or "spec" and take it from there as you have described. you are 100% correct in that getting it right, right down to the half twist is key. it is a very finicky bow to tune and before i started going to Robert for my "supertunes" this bow frustrated the best technicians at the shop where i bought it time and again because they just did not have the time/patience needed to tune this bow to "perfection". 

another tool that Robert has is a verticle draw board which helps to tune this bow in a very short amount of time compared to putting this bow on a horizontal draw board. it enables you to see not only where/when the string is making contact with the draw stops but also you can check it for cam lean and adjust accordingly and keeping the axle to axle we check after each adjustment or twist/untwist of string/cables and yokes in essence keeping it in spec or making sure we put it in spec. this is the part that frustrated the other techs i think going back and forth checking the axle to axle after twisting or untwisting something. and too if the limb bolts are maxxed out and you are not reaching that 70-71# draw weight its back to twisting/untwisting, checking the spec and getting it back on the verticle draw board to check for timing and lean etc etc, to get the draw weight up. since using the custom Excel strings i dont have to retune nearly as often as before but i still check it frequently because it is so finicky. when this bow is "tuned to perfection" there is not a better bow out there imo. there is no better feeling than stepping out to 70-80 yards and drilling your target where you aim at with a fixxed head. thats when you know your bow is "tuned to perfection".

again great job Baldyhunter and thanks for the thread.


----------



## R.U.HAPPY?

*Destroyer 340 draw stops*

Just wanted to know if anyone has played around with the draw stop posts on ur destroyers? I found out that for the longer draw settings I could position the stops on the other side of the cam so they contact the limb, providing a backwall much like my 101 airborne. I slipped a small o-ring over the factory post then shrink-wrapped that making them look like miniature versions of the 101 stops. My bow is set up with the posts in the #6 holes an the mods in the #2 position. This gives me a longer valley and a actual DL of 31.5" essentially the same DL as if the stops were in the #1 hole the "right" way. Been shooting it this way from about the 1st of Nov. Seems to be a bit more forgiving set this way. Just wanted to know if anyone else has tried this....?? BIG thanks to Baldyhunter for all the tuning info!! now for some new strings from u....


----------



## Hopperton

TTT lets see soem groups with the Destroyers...


----------



## Skeeter 58

R.U.HAPPY? said:


> Just wanted to know if anyone has played around with the draw stop posts on ur destroyers? I found out that for the longer draw settings I could position the stops on the other side of the cam so they contact the limb, providing a backwall much like my 101 airborne. I slipped a small o-ring over the factory post then shrink-wrapped that making them look like miniature versions of the 101 stops. My bow is set up with the posts in the #6 holes an the mods in the #2 position. This gives me a longer valley and a actual DL of 31.5" essentially the same DL as if the stops were in the #1 hole the "right" way. Been shooting it this way from about the 1st of Nov. Seems to be a bit more forgiving set this way. Just wanted to know if anyone else has tried this....?? BIG thanks to Baldyhunter for all the tuning info!! now for some new strings from u....


That sounds interesting but the draw stops look kind of weak IMO. 
I'd be afraid of sapping one of them off. 
Perhaps Ken will weight in on this one.


----------



## Skeeter 58

Skeeter 58 said:


> That sounds interesting but the draw stops look kind of weak IMO.
> I'd be afraid of sapping one of them off.
> Perhaps Ken will weight in on this one.


Anyone else try that?


----------



## ftlotg15

sounds interesting...but I couldn't tell ya whether this is really a good idea or not....seems relative


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## bambieslayer

heres some groups 4 ya


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## Skeeter 58

bambieslayer said:


> heres some groups 4 ya


Nice shooting man.


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## tack09

I also add limb stops to the Destroyer. It makes the back wall feel crazy solid. I leave the original cable stops in place and add sockit allen screws to the othe side of the cam to contact the limb. It is easy to time the limb stops with the cable stops in place. This also adds the security that if for any reason the stops fail, the cams cannot over rotate. Once you find the correct number hole for the limb stops, you can adjust the timing by adding additional layers of shrink tube to time them with the cable stops.


----------



## Skeeter 58

tack09 said:


> I also add limb stops to the Destroyer. It makes the back wall feel crazy solid. I leave the original cable stops in place and add sockit allen screws to the othe side of the cam to contact the limb. It is easy to time the limb stops with the cable stops in place. This also adds the security that if for any reason the stops fail, the cams cannot over rotate. Once you find the correct number hole for the limb stops, you can adjust the timing by adding additional layers of shrink tube to time them with the cable stops.


Interesting. Do you have a pic of your set up?


----------



## tack09

Sorry, I dont have mine anymore. If you PM (ucntzme), he has one I did and I am shure he will post pics.


Skeeter 58 said:


> Interesting. Do you have a pic of your set up?


----------



## Skeeter 58

tack09 said:


> Sorry, I dont have mine anymore. If you PM (ucntzme), he has one I did and I am shure he will post pics.


Thanks, I may do that. I know I don't want to do anything that may void my warranty.


----------



## TozerBGood

R.U.HAPPY? said:


> Just wanted to know if anyone has played around with the draw stop posts on ur destroyers? I found out that for the longer draw settings I could position the stops on the other side of the cam so they contact the limb, providing a backwall much like my 101 airborne. I slipped a small o-ring over the factory post then shrink-wrapped that making them look like miniature versions of the 101 stops. My bow is set up with the posts in the #6 holes an the mods in the #2 position. This gives me a longer valley and a actual DL of 31.5" essentially the same DL as if the stops were in the #1 hole the "right" way. Been shooting it this way from about the 1st of Nov. Seems to be a bit more forgiving set this way. Just wanted to know if anyone else has tried this....?? BIG thanks to Baldyhunter for all the tuning info!! now for some new strings from u....


My Destroyer only goes to 30" DL, as stated by BowTech. I'm confused when you say "31.5" essentially the same DL as if the stops were in the #1 hole the "right" way.". How did you get a 31.5" DL when your draw stops were in the correct way? (because that seems unlikely)

Also, can you tell us what it did for your speed?

Welcome to AT BTW.


----------



## R.U.HAPPY?

*Draw stops*

TozerBGood...I have the destroyer 340...new from the factory my DL measured an actual 31 7/16". Gained 1-2 FPS. I'm thinking of purchasing another factory set of stops and do what tack09 did for extra security...even if they didn't contact the cables they'd be there in case the other side broke, which seems pretty unlikely to me.


----------



## tmorelli

I have a few questions for you guys experienced with the yoke tuning process. I read through this entire thing and was left with this:

1. I've read the write up several times and am not clear on how you are setting the bottom cam lean. I understand that you are setting the top cam so that the arrow touches right between the peep and the top of the center serving. What about the bottom cam?

2. How are you selecting/ensuring that you are starting with a properly spined arrow? I love the idea but it seems to make the assumption that the arrow is ideally spined to tune down the center. Otherwise, wouldn't you just be "cheating" the tune by compensating for arrow spine (normally done by most archers by moving the rest in/out).

3. Once this bow is yoke tuned to one arrow, if I want to change setups (say from IBO, to ASA, to hunting) would you simply be looking for an arrow of appropriate weight and spine to make the desired speed with the rest tuned down the center or would you adjust the cam lean again to compensate for spine differences?

4. Are you seeing real gains in shootability/forgiveness of the bow from having the pins lined up down center shot? One negative that came to mind for me is that it looks like I would lose visibility of part of my site pin ring or even a large scope housing as viewed through the peep behind the riser if the aiming point(s) are on center shot (vs. just outside to the left since I'm a right handed shooter).

Thanks in advance for your time and responses.

Tony Morelli


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## tmorelli

@ Baldy,

Partially answering my own questions above:

I've been through the process on my D-350 a few times in testing different setups now. 1 was a high speed hunting setup (~71 lbs, 360 gr Victory HV 300 running about 340 fps), 1 was a moderate hunting setup (~71 lbs running Epic 340's @ 420 grains and 316 fps) and another was attempting to get to ASA legal (~60 lbs, Epic 340's w/140 gr up front because CE Maxima 250's w/ 85 gr tips acted limber (and too fast), so I ended up back with the Epics @ a total of 455 gr @ 284 fps).

Now I'm in the process of setting up a new Specialist and have been pondering this yoke tuning system quite a bit. I got the bow on a trade in like new condition from a shop's staff shooter. The shop that set it up was supposedly knowledgeable in yoke tuning and so I was curious to get the bow home and get it on the draw board and check out the cam lean. I hate to say that I was surprised but I found the bow to be significantly out of time, almost 1/2" short ATA, and also had WAY too much cam pre-lean in it (left yokes way overtwisted, RH bow).

I can't say for sure but I suspect that they tried the yoke tuning to correct a bad left tear and eventually just went WAY to far with it. I'm guessing that they were "cheating" the cam against a bad spine issue.

All this is to say that I have seen first hand what yoke tuning can do but it needs to be used deliberately and cautiously. It's intention is not to correct for spine and I believe that it should be used to gain zero cam lean at full draw and and that should be the limitation/single goal of it.....then spine/tuning should go from there. The beauty of it is that once you have zero lean at FD, the bow seems to become very forgiving to a range of spines and it also wants to tune right down the center. If it doesn't you are torquing or have a spine issue. I would say that you don't want to lean the cam one way or the other to correct for the spine-or-torque and force a center-shot tune through paper (because it can be done).


----------



## TozerBGood

tmorelli said:


> @ Baldy,
> 
> Partially answering my own questions above:
> 
> I've been through the process on my D-350 a few times in testing different setups now. 1 was a high speed hunting setup (~71 lbs, 360 gr Victory HV 300 running about 340 fps), 1 was a moderate hunting setup (~71 lbs running Epic 340's @ 420 grains and 316 fps) and another was attempting to get to ASA legal (~60 lbs, Epic 340's w/140 gr up front because CE Maxima 250's w/ 85 gr tips acted limber (and too fast), so I ended up back with the Epics @ a total of 455 gr @ 284 fps).
> 
> Now I'm in the process of setting up a new Specialist and have been pondering this yoke tuning system quite a bit. I got the bow on a trade in like new condition from a shop's staff shooter. The shop that set it up was supposedly knowledgeable in yoke tuning and so I was curious to get the bow home and get it on the draw board and check out the cam lean. I hate to say that I was surprised but I found the bow to be significantly out of time, almost 1/2" short ATA, and also had WAY too much cam pre-lean in it (left yokes way overtwisted, RH bow).
> 
> I can't say for sure but I suspect that they tried the yoke tuning to correct a bad left tear and eventually just went WAY to far with it. I'm guessing that they were "cheating" the cam against a bad spine issue.
> 
> All this is to say that I have seen first hand what yoke tuning can do but it needs to be used deliberately and cautiously. It's intention is not to correct for spine and I believe that it should be used to gain zero cam lean at full draw and and that should be the limitation/single goal of it.....then spine/tuning should go from there. The beauty of it is that once you have zero lean at FD, the bow seems to become very forgiving to a range of spines and it also wants to tune right down the center. If it doesn't you are torquing or have a spine issue. I would say that you don't want to lean the cam one way or the other to correct for the spine-or-torque and force a center-shot tune through paper (because it can be done).


On the other hand, I hope you aquired the improperly set-up bow for a good price.


----------



## baldyhunter

tmorelli said:


> @ Baldy,
> 
> Partially answering my own questions above:
> 
> I've been through the process on my D-350 a few times in testing different setups now. 1 was a high speed hunting setup (~71 lbs, 360 gr Victory HV 300 running about 340 fps), 1 was a moderate hunting setup (~71 lbs running Epic 340's @ 420 grains and 316 fps) and another was attempting to get to ASA legal (~60 lbs, Epic 340's w/140 gr up front because CE Maxima 250's w/ 85 gr tips acted limber (and too fast), so I ended up back with the Epics @ a total of 455 gr @ 284 fps).
> 
> Now I'm in the process of setting up a new Specialist and have been pondering this yoke tuning system quite a bit. I got the bow on a trade in like new condition from a shop's staff shooter. The shop that set it up was supposedly knowledgeable in yoke tuning and so I was curious to get the bow home and get it on the draw board and check out the cam lean. I hate to say that I was surprised but I found the bow to be significantly out of time, almost 1/2" short ATA, and also had WAY too much cam pre-lean in it (left yokes way overtwisted, RH bow).
> 
> I can't say for sure but I suspect that they tried the yoke tuning to correct a bad left tear and eventually just went WAY to far with it. I'm guessing that they were "cheating" the cam against a bad spine issue.
> 
> All this is to say that I have seen first hand what yoke tuning can do but it needs to be used deliberately and cautiously. It's intention is not to correct for spine and I believe that it should be used to gain zero cam lean at full draw and and that should be the limitation/single goal of it.....then spine/tuning should go from there. The beauty of it is that once you have zero lean at FD, the bow seems to become very forgiving to a range of spines and it also wants to tune right down the center. If it doesn't you are torquing or have a spine issue. I would say that you don't want to lean the cam one way or the other to correct for the spine-or-torque and force a center-shot tune through paper (because it can be done).


Tony,
I can certainly see how you came to your conclusion. You must understand a few facts though. every person and every machine torques the bow to one extent or another. Think of it as dialect in a Language....every area speeks an understandable version (good form), but it is a bit different from person to person. There is and certainly should be some debate as to what can help a person have the most solid and repeatable form but even pro's vary from one to another. So...it seems to me that you imply that the if you set the bow up in any place other than having the cams straght at full draw your torquing the bow....I think your just as quilty of be torquing the bow to get it to shoot there LOL. My personal bow at my DL DW and properly spined arrow likes a bit less pre-lean than yours and I can throw a very wide variety of arrows through it with great results...these bows are fantastically foregiving of spine when they are tuned right (which for you happened to be straight at full draw). The best thing about this cam system is that it can be tuned for any reasonable form and reasonable spine right down the center.
Also, I know your 100% correct about having "too much pre lean" to get a false tune...but it really does not have anything to do with "cheating a spine". You can also get them to tune by going extreme in the oposite direction....starting the cams leaning toward the FLX....what you get is very inconsistent arow flight. If you read my threads I recomend setting pre-angle wherever it shoots best for you and your arrow (making sure to triple check for fletching contact!!) but within a range that I've found to tune great! That being (for the Destroyer series) an arrow held against the right side of the cam hitting between the peep sight and the top of the center serving. This area produces the results your refering to and can be customized to the archer.
I, as always, believe in setting bows up for individuals....not changing individuals to fit bows (as long as there is repeatable and consistent results). This cam system allows for that more than any other and people should be encouraged to play with cam lean to suite (again withing reason). The thing to remember is that your bow, set with the cams straight at full draw, may not tune well at all in the hands of some of the best shooters in the world! The tuning results you have in that possition will be had in another possition for the next archer in line. I do disagree with any hint that this cam system should be set the same for everyone or that there is a single "best" possition for everyone.

I'll try and write a bit on "cheating the spine" when I find time.
Ken


----------



## TozerBGood

baldyhunter said:


> Tony,
> I can certainly see how you came to your conclusion. You must understand a few facts though. every person and every machine torques the bow to one extent or another. Think of it as dialect in a Language....every area speeks an understandable version (good form), but it is a bit different from person to person. There is and certainly should be some debate as to what can help a person have the most solid and repeatable form but even pro's vary from one to another. So...it seems to me that you imply that the if you set the bow up in any place other than having the cams straght at full draw your torquing the bow....I think your just as quilty of be torquing the bow to get it to shoot there LOL. My personal bow at my DL DW and properly spined arrow likes a bit less pre-lean than yours and I can throw a very wide variety of arrows through it with great results...these bows are fantastically foregiving of spine when they are tuned right (which for you happened to be straight at full draw). The best thing about this cam system is that it can be tuned for any reasonable form and reasonable spine right down the center.
> Also, I know your 100% correct about having "too much pre lean" to get a false tune...but it really does not have anything to do with "cheating a spine". You can also get them to tune by going extreme in the oposite direction....starting the cams leaning toward the FLX....what you get is very inconsistent arow flight. If you read my threads I recomend setting pre-angle wherever it shoots best for you and your arrow (making sure to triple check for fletching contact!!) but within a range that I've found to tune great! That being (for the Destroyer series) an arrow held against the right side of the cam hitting between the peep sight and the top of the center serving. This area produces the results your refering to and can be customized to the archer.
> I, as always, believe in setting bows up for individuals....not changing individuals to fit bows (as long as there is repeatable and consistent results). This cam system allows for that more than any other and people should be encouraged to play with cam lean to suite (again withing reason). The thing to remember is that your bow, set with the cams straight at full draw, may not tune well at all in the hands of some of the best shooters in the world! The tuning results you have in that possition will be had in another possition for the next archer in line. I do disagree with any hint that this cam system should be set the same for everyone or that there is a single "best" possition for everyone.
> 
> I'll try and write a bit on "cheating the spine" when I find time.
> Ken


:thumbs_up (of course he was asking about ths specialist)

Baldy, at some point I may be getting a specialist. Sorry if you already answered this question elsewhere, but have you found the yoke set-up for ths specialist to be similar to the D350?


----------



## tmorelli

Thanks baldy. I'm on the same page with you and I think my point of it was mostly to emphasize that people should not (or at least very cautiously) use this system to correct for other issues (be it form or arrow spine). Of course my post was written after discovering what I think may have been abuse of your prescription. Also, only time and lots of shots will tell but I theorize that zero-lean will result in longer bearing and limb life.

For what it is worth, my D350 is set almost exactly where you describe and the pre-lean creates almost zero cam lean at full draw.

What I've found with the Specialist is that zero cam lean @ FD takes a little less pre-lean than the D-350. Basically, I set them 1/2 twist left of zero (plumb) at brace to get zero lean at full draw. Then with the rest on center shot, I started testing arrows through paper. I really expected this cam to want a stiffer spine than the charts will tell you but was pleasantly surprised. The first shot was less than 1/4" right. A 15gr lighter point and it punched a bullet hole (400 spine). Then I grabbed some 340 spine arrows and punched a bullet hole with 85, 100, and 125 gr points. For the heck of it, I took a 300 spine with a 85 (stiffest arrow I can create from my scrap pile) and it tore down about 1/8".

I haven't decided what shafts I'm going to shoot yet but I think I'd be happy with a a light-pointed 400 spine or up to a heavy pointed 350. I did get a few chrony results so I know what weight I'm shooting for with my selection.

Specialist
59#
29.5"
399 gr @ 287
448 gr @ 266


----------



## Reed

tmorelli said:


> Thanks baldy. I'm on the same page with you and I think my point of it was mostly to emphasize that people should not (or at least very cautiously) use this system to correct for other issues (be it form or arrow spine). Of course my post was written after discovering what I think may have been abuse of your prescription. Also, only time and lots of shots will tell but I theorize that zero-lean will result in longer bearing and limb life.
> 
> For what it is worth, my D350 is set almost exactly where you describe and the pre-lean creates almost zero cam lean at full draw.
> 
> What I've found with the Specialist is that zero cam lean @ FD takes a little less pre-lean than the D-350. Basically, I set them 1/2 twist left of zero (plumb) at brace to get zero lean at full draw. Then with the rest on center shot, I started testing arrows through paper. I really expected this cam to want a stiffer spine than the charts will tell you but was pleasantly surprised. The first shot was less than 1/4" right. A 15gr lighter point and it punched a bullet hole (400 spine). Then I grabbed some 340 spine arrows and punched a bullet hole with 85, 100, and 125 gr points. For the heck of it, I took a 300 spine with a 85 (stiffest arrow I can create from my scrap pile) and it tore down about 1/8".
> 
> I haven't decided what shafts I'm going to shoot yet but I think I'd be happy with a a light-pointed 400 spine or up to a heavy pointed 350. I did get a few chrony results so I know what weight I'm shooting for with my selection.
> 
> Specialist
> 59#
> 29.5"
> 399 gr @ 287
> 448 gr @ 266


So the long and short of it on the D350/340, you are going for zero to very little cam lean at FD right. makes sense but you never know. I have my spec set for zero lean at fd and it shoots great there.

Reed


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## Rytera X

Is There anything that i sould do different for the 340?


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## Drifter0678

yeah, send it to Ken for strings and tune...


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## kallen

I am looking for information and thought I would start on this thread since this is where most all d-350 tuning gets referred too. 
On my D-350 with the rest set to center it shoots with a 1.5 inch left nock tear. Inspecting the yokes I find that the red side has a fairly tight twist where the grey has nothing or there about. Should I take the red twist out or twist up the grey side to tune?

Thanks for any help or advice
Kurt


----------



## baldyhunter

kallen said:


> I am looking for information and thought I would start on this thread since this is where most all d-350 tuning gets referred too.
> On my D-350 with the rest set to center it shoots with a 1.5 inch left nock tear. Inspecting the yokes I find that the red side has a fairly tight twist where the grey has nothing or there about. Should I take the red twist out or twist up the grey side to tune?
> 
> Thanks for any help or advice
> Kurt


If you want to bring in the ATA and ****** the timing twist up the grey yokes........If you want to take ATA out and advance the timing twist out the red yokes.....if your happy with the timing take equal twists out of the red yokes and put the same number of twists in the grey side.
Ken


----------



## kallen

The ATA currently is 32 1/2. Last night I took the twist out of the red and added to the grey so I would have a cam lean as you describe in your instructions. It had no cam lean before and shot left nock tear all the time. After doing this change the ATA didn't change. At this point I am a little confused because I thought that I heard that you twist the individual yokes to dial in the center shot and to bring the bow into ATA or Timing you twist the whole cable? To adjust a low or high tear I can adjust the tiller slightly?


----------



## The Guardian

baldyhunter said:


> If you want to bring in the ATA and ****** the timing twist up the grey yokes........If you want to take ATA out and advance the timing twist out the red yokes.....if your happy with the timing take equal twists out of the red yokes and put the same number of twists in the grey side.
> Ken


Ken

You're the man when it comes to the destroyer line! I may have to look to send my 350 into you for a full tune!

Also(out of curiousity) do you have any experience with tuning the maitland line? I have a new VTR retribution that I want a full tuneup and new strings on.... hoping you can do it for me?

Steve


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## L.I.Archer

kallen said:


> The ATA currently is 32 1/2. Last night I took the twist out of the red and added to the grey so I would have a cam lean as you describe in your instructions. It had no cam lean before and shot left nock tear all the time. After doing this change the ATA didn't change. At this point I am a little confused because I thought that I heard that you twist the individual yokes to dial in the center shot and to bring the bow into ATA or Timing you twist the whole cable? To adjust a low or high tear I can adjust the tiller slightly?


You still need to time the cams at full draw.


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## baldyhunter

kallen said:


> The ATA currently is 32 1/2. Last night I took the twist out of the red and added to the grey so I would have a cam lean as you describe in your instructions. It had no cam lean before and shot left nock tear all the time. After doing this change the ATA didn't change. At this point I am a little confused because I thought that I heard that you twist the individual yokes to dial in the center shot and to bring the bow into ATA or Timing you twist the whole cable? To adjust a low or high tear I can adjust the tiller slightly?


You are not changing timing at all when you take/add equal twists on both yoke legs. It keeps the overall length of the cables the same just changes cam lean. The thing to remember is that most these things are related. Any time you twist anything (other than equal twists added and taken away on both sides of the yokes which only changes things very, very little) you effect synchronization, timing, and ATA.....all of them. You have to keep the big picture in mind. It'll take some getting used to but you'll get the hang of it. You can make a slight change to tiller to adjust for a high low tear....but that isn't the first thing I'd do.


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## Young un

This is why I'm a member of this site! Wow, thanks alot


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## baldyhunter

The Guardian said:


> Ken
> 
> You're the man when it comes to the destroyer line! I may have to look to send my 350 into you for a full tune!
> 
> Also(out of curiousity) do you have any experience with tuning the maitland line? I have a new VTR retribution that I want a full tuneup and new strings on.... hoping you can do it for me?
> 
> Steve


I've actually done several Maitland bows...great bows by the way!


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## jrdrees

I've read this post a dozen times and find myself enthralled with the info, just got a Specialist and looking to improve my knowledge.


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## cooperjd

After reading and re-reading, I finally got the courage to try it. I've never done this kind of tuning before, so with new press in hand, off i go for the D340.

it took me a while to get the hang of things, and sometimes i'd forget about keeping the cams timed and ATA. so after i got the hang of how everything worked, and how my adjustments affected the system as a whole, i was off and running. finally my last shots were a small tear tail right, then a small tail left, then a bullet hole. i figured my grip isn't perfectly consistent, so i called it good. my fletched arrows shoot perfect bullet holes, and my bare shaft shoots about an inch off my other arrows at 20 yards. i still have yet to walk back tune, then i'll put on some montecs and see how they fly. should only be very minor tweaking needed. i'll also test my speed after tuning and see if i picked up any.

Thanks for all the info Ken


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## Viper69

I got my D350 the other day and got her tuned up. I had to put a twist in the cable to get the stops hitting together. Now the stops are perfect, the A2A is 32 3/8's and brace is 6". papertuned to bullet holes. One thing I dont get is where its said that you want some cam lean. This bow has zero. If you lay the arrow along the cam it parallels the string all the way. Its shooting good so im leaving it as is.....


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## hunter74

Ok i know this has been asked alot but seems every search i do is a bunch of what if you try this kind of answers.When timing a binary cam and its shooing nock low which cam cable do you twist to move the nock up.I have very small nock low in my destroyer and don't want to move my rest,loop,etc.I am wanting to do this with timing alone if it's level looks to me like it would have to be atiming issue.Oh and the nock low is showing with broadheads not FP's when i broadhead tune shooting about 4in higher than my FP's.My thinking is the top cam is ahead of the bottom and needs a twist or half just dont want to mess anything up moving the wrong cam,it's shooting great other than that bh's-fp's perfect right and left on same plain.


----------



## TozerBGood

hunter74 said:


> Ok i know this has been asked alot but seems every search i do is a bunch of what if you try this kind of answers.When timing a binary cam and its shooing nock low which cam cable do you twist to move the nock up.I have very small nock low in my destroyer and don't want to move my rest,loop,etc.I am wanting to do this with timing alone if it's level looks to me like it would have to be atiming issue.Oh and the nock low is showing with broadheads not FP's when i broadhead tune shooting about 4in higher than my FP's.My thinking is the top cam is ahead of the bottom and needs a twist or half just dont want to mess anything up moving the wrong cam,it's shooting great other than that bh's-fp's perfect right and left on same plain.


Typically I have always been told that the Cams should be timed so the stops hit the cable at the same time at full draw, and then you adjust D-loop or rest to get arrows shooting correctly. On the Destroyer (as Baldy points out) you can adjust r/l for center shot, by inducing slight cam lean as needed.

I have a question...are your bare shafts hitting the same point and the same angle as your fletched arrows at 15-20 yds? I have found that when I get it adjusted to that, then my Broadhead flight falls in line also. This has been true on all the bows I have done this with. I believe Baldy has talked about broadhead arrow tuning, but that is what I consider fine tuning for differences in your broadhead arrows so that they will group correctly.

But from what you said...I suspect your D-loop or rest is not perfectly set, and your fletchings are correcting your FP flight, but don't have the drag to correct for the broadheads. Maybe I'm way off base here, but have you bareshaft tuned?


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## hunter74

No haven't bare shafted no its not way above level maybe 1/8 in if that.But i did reset my cam lean and timed it just a bit more and all came together thanks.Yea i was fine tuning my broadheads,I just hate for my loop not to be level.I think its more of a spine issue 26.25 gt ulpro's .400 at 26 in draw 64/65 lb ot shows it to be weak at this poundage.I got a set of 60lb'ers on the way and that puts me right in the green with 75 and 100 grn's points.


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## HoodIN

Just want to give a BIG thanks to Baldyhunter for taking time to post this up! I just finished tuning my D340 and it is shooting perfect holes with both bare and fletched shafts @ 5yds. I'll fine tune tomorrow at distance but I can honestly say I've never had a bow tune up so quickly or as easy as this Destroyer. Thanks again for making this a walk in the park Ken!!


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## White Wizzard

Thanks for the info.


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## Bill 2311

I am missing it, but when I hold the bow, and I examine the cam lean at rest, if if I put an arrow along the left side of both cams, will the arrows both point towards the center serving of the string or will the top arrow point towards the string while the bottom arrow points away from the center serving, i.e. the arrows beign parallel to each other?


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## tmorelli

Like This:

\ top
center
/ bottom

For right handed shooter.


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## Mike125mx

I've been watching This site forever now and finally signed up due to all the supportive remarks and post of the members. With that said I am making a 3 and a 1/2 hour trip one way tomorrow to see baldy about my destroyer. You have all made me feel confident to make the trip with the positive feedback. I'll be there by 9 am I hope Ken is awake. And I'm sure I'll be thanking him just like so many others.


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## speeddemon619

Ken is one heck of a guy! Just came from his shop a bit ago, nothing but helpful and great guy! Can't wait to have my ce tuned by him!


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## TailChaser

Working on mine, have both cams already leaning more than stated. Arrow crossing the string near the speed nocks. Still left tear with bare shaft. Comes close to a bullet hole with the rest a touch to the inside.

Keep on twisting more?

Seems like my nock is a little below level too. Never seen anything like it. Code red rest, no contact.

There is a limbsaver strip along the back of the flex guard. Wonder if that's stiffening it up or something, adding more torque.


----------



## baldyhunter

TailChaser said:


> Working on mine, have both cams already leaning more than stated. Arrow crossing the string near the speed nocks. Still left tear with bare shaft. Comes close to a bullet hole with the rest a touch to the inside.
> 
> Keep on twisting more?
> 
> Seems like my nock is a little below level too. Never seen anything like it. Code red rest, no contact.
> 
> There is a limbsaver strip along the back of the flex guard. Wonder if that's stiffening it up or something, adding more torque.


I wouldn't add any more twists. Any more and the cables will rub hard on the side of the cam when you hit the valley. At this point you may need to move the rest a touch inside or play with spine (arrows).

As far as the nock point issue sounds like you have a strong top limb...somewhat common with the new limbs. Try taking a quarter turn out of the top limb and adding a quarter turn in the bottom to equalize deflection and raise your mocking point a bit.
Ken


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## TailChaser

Thanks. I have gone as much as a full turn off the top limb, and it helped a little. I'm thinking 2 1/2 or 3 turns would fix it. Maybe I should just swap limbs if they're that bad off.

I added one more twist to the top last night to make it more even with the bottom. I still have to move the rest in 1/8 from centershot but it's shooting great. Just shoots low when you stick a fixed head on.

I will play more with spines tomorrow. It's only maxing out about 68 lbs right now. I've been shooting some .400 cut short to 26" with a 28" draw.


----------



## baldyhunter

TailChaser said:


> Thanks. I have gone as much as a full turn off the top limb, and it helped a little. I'm thinking 2 1/2 or 3 turns would fix it. Maybe I should just swap limbs if they're that bad off.
> 
> I added one more twist to the top last night to make it more even with the bottom. I still have to move the rest in 1/8 from centershot but it's shooting great. Just shoots low when you stick a fixed head on.
> 
> I will play more with spines tomorrow. It's only maxing out about 68 lbs right now. I've been shooting some .400 cut short to 26" with a 28" draw.


I'd hate to say it but it sounds to me like you really need a new set of limbs...
Ken


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## nwmn

Are you getting the 70 lb 350's to tune with 340 spine? Seems like I thought I finally was having really good arrow flight with fp's but I was practicing with the rage practice tip, and at long range I picked up fishtailing again. I read somewhere that increasing or decreasing the weight up front can battle a weak spined arrow. Just wondering if the 340's are enough.


----------



## baldyhunter

TailChaser said:


> Thanks. I have gone as much as a full turn off the top limb, and it helped a little. I'm thinking 2 1/2 or 3 turns would fix it. Maybe I should just swap limbs if they're that bad off.
> 
> I added one more twist to the top last night to make it more even with the bottom. I still have to move the rest in 1/8 from centershot but it's shooting great. Just shoots low when you stick a fixed head on.
> 
> I will play more with spines tomorrow. It's only maxing out about 68 lbs right now. I've been shooting some .400 cut short to 26" with a 28" draw.



I would personaly be shooting a stiffer arrow as well...a good bit stiffer... Try 340's around that length and see what happens. Spine issues can definitely cause tail high reactions.
Ken


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## TailChaser

Will do. It's just 75-85 grain tips on the .400's though. I'm going to play more with the .340's tomorrow. If that doesn't fix it, I think I'll swap the limbs around next. Going to do some twisting and get the weight back up to 72 lbs too. Man I wasn't expecting the smooth draw, 68 lbs is butter. Hope I can get this thing going perfect. Will report back.


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## TailChaser

still had high tear with .340's cut to 26" with 85 grain tip. Actually gave me a bullet a 5' but at 6-7 yards it was still high tear, bare and fletched. But it was a "cleaner" tear, like the .400's were still flexed in the air and kindof rip a hole.

I wallowed out the hole in the code red launcher so the arrow can sit a little lower, and just moved the nock down. It's just a little below level now, barely noticeable. Perfect bullets at 12 yards with bare shaft and fletched. .400's bullet too but "rip" a hole. I won't complain. Deer are gonna fall. I'm probably going to just switch to .340's and get my weight back up to around 72, since I shoot 100 grains sometimes too. Man I love these bullet holes.


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## Extreme vft17

ttt I need to refer back to this!


----------



## crazy4bucks

Hey I would just like to say thanks to Baldy Hunter. This thread was extremely usefully when tuning my new D 350. Save me a lot of headache for sure.


----------



## Bill 2311

After an initial frustration I had it just about dialed in perfectly and my limbdriver rest broke yesterday. Being a long time fan of the prong rests, I put the old rest on. Set centershot at
7/8" and headed for the range. Knowing that the cams were very, very close, I chose to shoot broadheads at 20 yards as a test. From there I went to 40 yards. From there I went to 60 yards. Long story short--- I was able to adjust the verticle adjustment on the rest and yoke tune so that broadheads hit within an inch of field points at 60 yards. I have not had a bow shoot this well, so effortlessly, since my UltraTec. I am not an advocate of 60 yard shots at deer but it is nice to know what the equipment can do. I look forward to after the season when I get a chance to have Ken make a set of custom strings for it.


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## TailChaser

Figured I'd do a follow up. Got .340 spine's. Nock still low to tune/bullet hole. I took a pic at full draw just because I needed to see. Yup, that bottom limb is weaker, lost weight somehow. Only like 1/32" difference in tiller. I'm hoping a limb replacement after season might fix it. Luckily I don't hear about it all over the board, so much not be that common.


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## cgchris99

TailChaser said:


> Figured I'd do a follow up. Got .340 spine's. Nock still low to tune/bullet hole. I took a pic at full draw just because I needed to see. Yup, that bottom limb is weaker, lost weight somehow. Only like 1/32" difference in tiller. I'm hoping a limb replacement after season might fix it. Luckily I don't hear about it all over the board, so much not be that common.


What are you seeing in the picture to make you think you have a weak limb?


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## TailChaser

You see how the arrow is down at the back compared to the straight line? You can also compare the up and down lines to the axles and stabilizer to see the photo is straight. 

For the bow to tune, my nock point is like 1/2" below level center. It will tune with bare shaft and fletched there. It's like there's a 60 lb limb on the bottom. Also at rest, for the limb stops to hit the same time, the bottom cam is rolled forward more than the top, opposite of how binaries always tune. I actually had to move my rest up another 1/16" from this picture to get bare shaft bullet holes.


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## cgchris99

If you think you what a weak limb, swap the limbs. If it doesn't change to the opposite, then you can eliminate that as a possibility.


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## Shulion

This is a great thread for us 350 owners.


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## TailChaser

cgchris99 said:


> If you think you what a weak limb, swap the limbs. If it doesn't change to the opposite, then you can eliminate that as a possibility.


Yeh, thought about that, but..season started, baby due any time, no time to fool with it. I've ruled everything else out unless the riser is screwy. If I can just get it huntable for a month and it doesn't change or get worse, I'll make do. Will do that later though, thanks. If it was something else, I'd have fletch contact since my nock is like 1 1/2" low at full draw. Plus I had to bring the ATA in to 32" to barely make 70 lbs. (3/8" short)


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## baldyhunter

TailChaser said:


> Yeh, thought about that, but..season started, baby due any time, no time to fool with it. I've ruled everything else out unless the riser is screwy. If I can just get it huntable for a month and it doesn't change or get worse, I'll make do. Will do that later though, thanks. If it was something else, I'd have fletch contact since my nock is like 1 1/2" low at full draw. Plus I had to bring the ATA in to 32" to barely make 70 lbs. (3/8" short)[/QUOTE
> Based on what your describing I'd say there is a good chance that bottom limb did lose weight as you suggest. If your the original owner BT should replace the limbs. If you need any help contact me.
> Ken


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## Diamond_Victory

Can you guys help with cam timing. Curious if you can give advise what to twist to advance which cam, I'm new to over drive cams not sure what twisting strings and cables changes and doesn't change.

Thank you


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## Shulion

Baldyhunter,

I've been reading this thread (thanks by the way) and i was wondering about putting some silicone caulk in the hollow string stopper, What are your thoughts. The silicone would completely fill the tube and would absorb some vibration, noise and should get rid of that hollow sound. I read in this thread where someone had used rubber pieces to fill the tube and thought this might work. I would still put a bowjax or two on it when i was finished. Just wanted to get your thought on this before I tried it. Do you see any reason this wouldn't work or any reason i shouldnt try it.


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## Kelly Ison

Baldy...just wanted to say thanks for all this info. Ive been playing around with my invasion to perfect it for me and this thread has helped me more than any other I've read. Appreciate all the insight.

Kelly


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## TailChaser

I wanted to follow up. After a couple weeks, everything was still timed correctly. I noticed the top cam was leaning back the other way from where I set it. So I added 2 twists to the grey yoke side, and also added 1 twist to the other cable to make up for the length. 

Took it out of the press, drew back-still timed right, stops hitting at the same time, shot through paper...holy crap low tear? Now it tuned with the nocking point all of a sudden perfectly level. Took down two deer with it. 

What was happening I guess was one cam was taking off sooner than the other, even though the draw stops were hitting at the same time.


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## norconkm

I have a destroyer 350, that I tuned according to (roughly) the method here. Thank you to all who have contributed so far, this thread has been invaluable to someone trying to learn and perform tuning on their own.

Tuned with .340 and .300 shafts, 28" draw, 26.5" arrow, ~72#, right handed. Tuned for bullet holes at ~6ft and ~12ft (garage limit), the rest is at center shot and a nocked arrow lines up straight down the stabilizer, but the sight pins end up left of center. Many other threads say this is normal and a result of the cable guard torque. But the flx guard supposedly mitigates this.

So, the question is, with this particular bow, is this something to be concerned about? When I say that I tuned roughly to the method here, I started the cams with no lean at brace and moved them to left side leaning toward the string until the bow was tuned. One cam seemed to lean faster than the other, so I tried to keep the lean even, not the twists.

Since I'm bringing the cams in from the left, maybe I should go one more twist? I quit when I got bullet holes and didn't go beyond to see if the tear would get worse.

Or is this likely a result of my grip? I think I'm keeping my hand relaxed, not torquing, etc. but am certainly not perfect. 

I've recently tuned a Ross Crave too, which is binary, so all the tuning was with the rest. Same result - pins to the left of center. Standard cable slide on that one though.


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## R0CKETMAN

Fwiw, my pin is to the left as well. Arrow is dead nuts centered.


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## norconkm

Since I can't just ask a question and patiently wait for the answer, I kept reading. Stumbled upon a thread which held a mention of the flx guard bolt tightness. I never messed with mine, but the guy I bought it from may have. I'll verify that the bolt is loosened the appropriate 2.5 turns from bottomed out. Not sure it would matter for torque, but looks like it can matter for longevity of the guard.


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## norconkm

Checked the flx guard - bolt was backed out 1 turn which was also a common answer. Since the main suggestion seemed to be "It was set at the factory, don't mess with it!" I didn't. 

Went to the range, was able to shoot reasonably good groups with the fletched, bareshafts hit well right of the fletched at 20 yards and at an angle as if shot from left of me. Couldn't completely fix this by nudging the rest.

Any thoughts? Maybe I just need to work on my form more.


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## R0CKETMAN

norconkm said:


> Checked the flx guard - bolt was backed out 1 turn which was also a common answer. Since the main suggestion seemed to be "It was set at the factory, don't mess with it!" I didn't.
> 
> Went to the range, was able to shoot reasonably good groups with the fletched, bareshafts hit well right of the fletched at 20 yards and at an angle as if shot from left of me. Couldn't completely fix this by nudging the rest.
> 
> Any thoughts? Maybe I just need to work on my form more.


Something's up. I've tuned mine from "scratch" twice in the last week and both times had bare and fletched hitting at 20 and even 40 yards. Bare shaft is sensitive to good form. Have you checked sync after your yoke tune?


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## norconkm

I did check cam sync on a draw board, and it's still on. Nock height is good. 

I think I may have been moving the rest too much. I shot the bare shafts through paper last night (.5" tail left tear to start) and noticed that I was having a hard time nudging the rest in small enough increments. Also decided I needed one more twist in the bottom left yoke. It was shooting bullet holes with the bare shafts to the best of my ability at the end. Might go to the range again tonight.

I replaced the string too (string only) but same configuration, so I don't think that would make a difference.


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## ontarget7

TailChaser said:


> I wanted to follow up. After a couple weeks, everything was still timed correctly. I noticed the top cam was leaning back the other way from where I set it. So I added 2 twists to the grey yoke side, and also added 1 twist to the other cable to make up for the length.
> 
> Took it out of the press, drew back-still timed right, stops hitting at the same time, shot through paper...holy crap low tear? Now it tuned with the nocking point all of a sudden perfectly level. Took down two deer with it.
> 
> What was happening I guess was one cam was taking off sooner than the other, even though the draw stops were hitting at the same time.


The most common reason for nock travel not tuning level is cams not synched properly. Glad you got it fixed


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## Maui1911

Can someone (baldy perhaps) please elaborate on the vertical adjustment. I am under the impression, that you can have the arrow run level through the Berger holes as opposed to adjusting the nock height. It seems to have been mentioned the you can adjust with the limb bolts/tiller adjustment or can this also be adjusted with CAM timing (set at equal or top CAM slightly ahead)? If so, which one for what type of tear?

I got my 340 shooting bullets (fletched arrows) with Yoke tuning for horizontal tear but had to adjust nock slightly high for the vertical. Plan to try bare shafts next. Love this bow so far.

Did notice that the draw is a little abrupt at the end of the draw cycle arrow likes to jump out of the limbdriver rest if I don't pull it back super smooth. Is this my imagination?

Thanks again baldy for such a great narrative and sharing this valuable information with us all.


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## hoekma

*Check the cams' sync*

What I found when doing all of the right-to-left tuning is that if you adjust the top tighter it will pull the string down and vice versa on twisting the lower cam. It makes a significant difference with even a half-twist. This means you can't just tune the left-right separate from the up-down because if you need a 1/2 twist on one side of one cam to tweak a left-right problem you'll be pulling the arrow up or down. 

What I do is 

Make sure the arrow rest is centered at 7/8" distance from the riser.
Get the arrow nocked level on the Berger holes like you did 
Get the lean on the cams as close to Baldy's recommendation as possible. 
Look at the position of the string on the tuning-dots on each cam. Just having them inside the dots isn't enough; both cams must align on the strings in exactly in the same position. top and bottom. Remember that tightening the lower strings will adjust the upper cam and vice versa. The tighter they are the shorter the valley, which might help your arrow jumping problem. This will also shorten the draw length and increase the draw-weight a little bit.
Check the Axle-to-axle to make sure it is still 32 3/8"

Start tuning with the bare shaft. If it rips:

Up and left, put a half twist tighter in the upper left string. (pulls the string down by tightening the LOWER cam, makes it lean right by pulling down on the left side of the cam)
Up and right, put a half twist tighter in the upper right string (pulls the string down by tightening the LOWER cam, makes it lean left by pulling down on the right side of the cam)
Down and left, put a half twist tighter in the lower left string (pulls the string up by tightening the UPPER cam, makes it lean right by pulling up on the left side of the cam)
Down and right, put a half twist tighter in the lower right string. (pulls the string up by tightening the UPPER cam, makes it lean left by pulling down on the right side of the cam)

I recommend at least 5-10 shots between adjustments to let everything settle in because the tears do seem to change after the first few shots, even with served "Ys"

Hope this helps and that I didn't screw anything up-- I'm sure someone will let me know if I did! 



Maui1911 said:


> Can someone (baldy perhaps) please elaborate on the vertical adjustment. I am under the impression, that you can have the arrow run level through the Berger holes as opposed to adjusting the nock height. It seems to have been mentioned the you can adjust with the limb bolts/tiller adjustment or can this also be adjusted with CAM timing (set at equal or top CAM slightly ahead)? If so, which one for what type of tear?
> 
> I got my 340 shooting bullets (fletched arrows) with Yoke tuning for horizontal tear but had to adjust nock slightly high for the vertical. Plan to try bare shafts next. Love this bow so far.
> 
> Did notice that the draw is a little abrupt at the end of the draw cycle arrow likes to jump out of the limbdriver rest if I don't pull it back super smooth. Is this my imagination?
> 
> Thanks again baldy for such a great narrative and sharing this valuable information with us all.


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## Maui1911

Thanks for the reply. I am centered so I don't want to change CAM lean, however nock high/rest low. So i assume i would just adjust the CAM cable at the non yoke end. But....ATA is good to within less than 1/8" CAMS are also timed about as good as I can get so I am reluctany to change anything. I am guessing that ******ing the bottom CAM or advancing a the top a smidge (top cam hitting stop first) may help lower the nock point?


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## hoekma

I haven't tried twisting the non-yoke end, but it should work. The only problem I can think of is that it may over-adjust when you just need a little tweak. Either way, I find there is a lot of futzing around until you find Destroyer Nirvana (is that an oxymoron?) but once you get everything settled in, you'll be very happy!





Maui1911 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I am centered so I don't want to change CAM lean, however nock high/rest low. So i assume i would just adjust the CAM cable at the non yoke end. But....ATA is good to within less than 1/8" CAMS are also timed about as good as I can get so I am reluctany to change anything. I am guessing that ******ing the bottom CAM or advancing a the top a smidge (top cam hitting stop first) may help lower the nock point?


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## hunter74

OK so here is my dilemma I have tuned my specialist per baldy's instructions. 26 in/50# draw acc 3-28 500 spine 25 1/8 in long 80 gr nibbs. They tear bad left no matter how i twist the yokes or move my rest still left shot my .400 gt ul nock low, I'm thinking the .500's are to weak. To move the nock up I would twist the top cam correct?Arrow level with berger holes center shot down the stabilzer guess I will have to get me some stiffer arrows. I tuned my destroyer using this method and it is perfect. Is my thinking here right or am i missing something


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## Maui1911

Hoekma,
You were right. I twisted the non yoke end to adjust the tiny bit of CAM timing and it over corrected it. My bottom CAM is a fraction ahead of my top. Half twist on the non yoke end way over corrected. I don't want to mess up my lean which I have dead center if I twist the yoke end. Any suggestions?

Also, anyone know how what to twist to adjust the nock height? I am nock high but would like to get level though the Berger holes.

Mahalo


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## hunter74

I'm thinking we could twist both sides of my bottom yoke to make the smaller adjustments which would like barely twisting the non yoke end of the top cam we will see if someone chimes in to tell me i'm right or wrong. That way the lean should not change.


Maui1911 said:


> Hoekma,
> You were right. I twisted the non yoke end to adjust the tiny bit of CAM timing and it over corrected it. My bottom CAM is a fraction ahead of my top. Half twist on the non yoke end way over corrected. I don't want to mess up my lean which I have dead center if I twist the yoke end. Any suggestions?
> 
> Also, anyone know how what to twist to adjust the nock height? I am nock high but would like to get level though the Berger holes.
> 
> Mahalo


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## Maui1911

hunter74 said:


> I'm thinking we could twist both sides of my bottom yoke to make the smaller adjustments which would like barely twisting the non yoke end of the top cam we will see if someone chimes in to tell me i'm right or wrong. That way the lean should not change.


I thought that too. However, still over corrected....ugh. It is just barely ahead < credit card width so maybe I live with it. Bow shoots great. Got a PM to baldyhunter so maybe I can get this figured out.


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## hoekma

Couple of thoughts -- Regarding moving the nock so it's level with the berger holes, you don't want to do that by adjusting the cams. The cams sync adjustments are trying to ensure that one cam isn't releasing faster than the other one resulting in the string isn't moving pulling up or down as you release it. To get the arrow to line up with the berger holes and still be perpendicular to the string, you will need to actually move the nock and/or d-loop point on the string. 

On the cam timing, how far is it ripping up? If its a minor tear up/down, you may be at a point where you fine-tune it by moving the arrow rest up or down a MM or two. If the up/down rip is dramatic and your arrow is perfectly parallel to the string, then you'll need to try 1/2 twist on one of the yokes. If it's ripping up, perhaps tightening a twist on the upper left yoke and letting a twist out of the lower right yoke might correct it without major effect to the lean. 

I know it stinks when you get the left-right thing down and the up/down gets off or vice-versa but that's the joy and bane of being a perfectionist!  I empathize with your dilemma!




Maui1911 said:


> I thought that too. However, still over corrected....ugh. It is just barely ahead < credit card width so maybe I live with it. Bow shoots great. Got a PM to baldyhunter so maybe I can get this figured out.


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## Maui1911

Just got BH and FP touching at 30yd.  Thanks all for the replies. Will back it up when I have some more time and no wind. I hate that this thing called work keeps getting in the way of my archery.


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## hunter74

The weather has been to bad here to work on my specialist anymore I think I can get it worked out. I just hate a kick in my arrows drives me nuts.....


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## hoekma

Amen brother!



Maui1911 said:


> I hate that this thing called work keeps getting in the way of my archery.


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## Scoutin'Wyo

Tracking thread.

Good stuff fellas!


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## hunter74

I think our left kick is coming from the factory strings being a little long and giving us more poundage when put in spec. I seen this same thing on my destroyer 350 when i was very close to the limits of the spine being weak got new string and cables walla tuned in mins. My bow is set at 26 in draw 50# draw weight 25.1/8 in acc 3-28 .500 spine which is very close to not working on the charts also. That is why I can get the stiff spine to work just like my other bow done same thing.


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## Dunk19

Great info here!


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## KBacon

great info!!!


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## corey006

The birth certificate on my Destroyer says 72.5 lbs.

The dealer I bought it from set it to 29 inchs.

To my pleasant surprise the 29 inchs appears spot on. I don't have a drawing board but I am usually 29 and this bow actually feels like I could go a tad longer.

My digital scale actually read 69.5 lbs MAX draw weight. Would setting the draw to 29 drop the lbs by 3 lbs?

Appears he set it close to Baldy's set-up guide the arrow is meeting the string about 1/2 way between the speed nocks and D-Loop. The right sides of the yoke cables are twisted up and the left looks like there is almost no twist.

First impressions.

Draw is nice. I don't find the draw cylce harsh at all.

Holds really well....80% let-off is nice but NOT when it comes to letting down...LOL. I can see how many derailed because at 70 lbs she is a bit of a beast to get used too when letting down to keep things controlled. In a hunting situation the 80% let-off will definitely be a blessing. It feels like I could hold it back fore-ever.


I have not paper tuned it yet and only took a few shots to chronograph.

I went by the 72.5 lbs so I used a 360 gr arrow and I was getting 328 fps.

This seems a little low to me.

I am not using a peep as I put a NO-Peep on it.

So all I have on the string is D-Loop and I used one of the eliminator rubbers inside the D-loop to rest my arrow nock on.

Being that I am only pulling 69.5, a 350 grain arrow will probably get me around 330?

Close to IBO. But not quite there.

Center to center measurement of ATA is 32 9/16.


Any insights....?


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## L.I.Archer

corey006 said:


> The birth certificate on my Destroyer says 72.5 lbs.
> 
> The dealer I bought it from set it to 29 inchs.
> 
> To my pleasant surprise the 29 inchs appears spot on. I don't have a drawing board but I am usually 29 and this bow actually feels like I could go a tad longer.
> 
> My digital scale actually read 69.5 lbs MAX draw weight. Would setting the draw to 29 drop the lbs by 3 lbs?
> 
> Appears he set it close to Baldy's set-up guide the arrow is meeting the string about 1/2 way between the speed nocks and D-Loop. The right sides of the yoke cables are twisted up and the left looks like there is almost no twist.
> 
> First impressions.
> 
> Draw is nice. I don't find the draw cylce harsh at all.
> 
> Holds really well....80% let-off is nice but NOT when it comes to letting down...LOL. I can see how many derailed because at 70 lbs she is a bit of a beast to get used too when letting down to keep things controlled. In a hunting situation the 80% let-off will definitely be a blessing. It feels like I could hold it back fore-ever.
> 
> 
> I have not paper tuned it yet and only took a few shots to chronograph.
> 
> I went by the 72.5 lbs so I used a 360 gr arrow and I was getting 328 fps.
> 
> This seems a little low to me.
> 
> I am not using a peep as I put a NO-Peep on it.
> 
> So all I have on the string is D-Loop and I used one of the eliminator rubbers inside the D-loop to rest my arrow nock on.
> 
> Being that I am only pulling 69.5, a 350 grain arrow will probably get me around 330?
> 
> Close to IBO. But not quite there.
> 
> Center to center measurement of ATA is 32 9/16.
> 
> 
> Any insights....?


Either your scale is not calibrated or Bowtech's scale isn't calibrated. If you want a few more pounds, take a couple twists off the string only (not the cables). That will increase the draw weight and give you a little more drawlength.


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## radpuppy

Hey y'all I put monkey tail string silencers on mine, put them right against the speed nocks and only lost 1fps. Just trying to give more helpful info to this GREAT post by Baldy hunter.


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## L.I.Archer

radpuppy said:


> Hey y'all I put monkey tail string silencers on mine, put them right against the speed nocks and only lost 1fps. Just trying to give more helpful info to this GREAT post by Baldy hunter.


Put the monkey tails on the cam side of the speed nocks. You might gain 3 fps.


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## Logjamb

Suscribed


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## dwagoner

L.I.Archer said:


> If you want a few more pounds, take a couple twists off the string only (not the cables). That will increase the draw weight and give you a little more drawlength.


no taking a few twist out of string only will not change DW, it will add draw but theres absoulutely no more load on limbs if you dont touch cables and just lengthen string, your just moving static cam timing position


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## a/c guy

dwagoner said:


> no taking a few twist out of string only will not change DW, it will add draw but theres absoulutely no more load on limbs if you dont touch cables and just lengthen string, your just moving static cam timing position


It depends on the bow/cam type. On my Old Glory, untwisting the string would add a pound or two. With my Zeus, I don't see a change in poundage.
I think by changing the static position of the cam, it changes how leverage is applied to the limbs, which may or may not change poundage.


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## joebrenner007

Hwhen everyone great info here. My ? Is my yokes are twisted just like everyone says with bow facing away from me, like shooting right side is twisted up tight left is mpt as much. But when I lay an arrow across the left side of top or bottom cams. The arrow leans away from the string NOT. Crossing above center serving like it should. Shop that set it up put a laser on each cam and said they lined it up with DL module on opposite cam but I don't see how this can be possible with my arrow clearly showing the is actually leaning the other way


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## LvToHunt

Baldy's methods work. I just yoke tuned my Insanity. Wow! Never had a bow tune so easy. You need a press and a draw board though. I bought a Bow Time Machine from Sootballs on here. By using Baldy's methods, I got a pretty good tune in a few short hours. Great post!


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## Bullhound

Is Baldy / Ken around anywhere? been trying to reach him


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## evasiveone

Bringing this back to the top for all those new Destroyer/Invasion/Insanity owners.


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## drew13

This (and all other posts by baldyhunter) should be required reading for anyone with a BowTech overdrive binary cam. 

Bullhound - I sent a PM to baldy last week and he responded within a day, so yes, he's still around. Can't thank him enough for all his good tips and willingness to help. Great guy.


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## Bullhound

drew13 said:


> This (and all other posts by baldyhunter) should be required reading for anyone with a BowTech overdrive binary cam.
> 
> Bullhound - I sent a PM to baldy last week and he responded within a day, so yes, he's still around. Can't thank him enough for all his good tips and willingness to help. Great guy.


yeah, he got me a string and cable set. great guy.


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## indy242003

Subscribed. Great info.


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## LvToHunt

There you go Steve!


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## 1goodarrow

Thanks Baldy, What a professional. I have tuned 2 specialists to almost perfection. He has replied to my detailed questions within 48 hours. You Buckeyes are lucky to have a great resource in your backyard. I thank The state of Ohio for Baldy, Ty Moore (Ohiotrophybucks.com), Mark Dantonio, and Ken Mannie.


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## cjorg

Man, talk about answering a LOT of questions. Thank you!


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## joebrenner007

Is ken still around?


iPhone sent by way of a bullseye


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## joebrenner007

Really need some of ur help here. Got the bow got some twisting done but think I'm too far. An arrow laid across cams on left contacts at end of serving just pass speed nocks now. Can get a bullet hole with my rest at 7/8 th but I have to hand torque it a little. I still have a lot of nock left fliers too. I can tell the torque because I use a bow anchor sight. My setup is 61.4 lbs. 28.5 DL setting using a qad pro rest and gt kinetic arrows .400 spine cut to 27". My ata is a little long notice though an 1/8 or so. I can see my cables are contacting my cams leaving a wear mark on em. Should I go back and retune per your instructions with the cam angles or have you seen some now tune with this far of lean. Also I feel my bow makes more noise than it should. Any advice for a guy who wants to love his destroyer 350. 


iPhone sent by way of a bullseye


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## joebrenner007

How is it possible that with the exact same twist in each cam that my bottom cam at full draw still had a lot of lean in it and it not over corrected its leaning the way they come from the factory Andover tried correcting but I'm and raid to twist any more. An arrow laid across left side of cam contacts the string right at the end of the cam serving that arrow is laid on. So guys what's going on here and how do I fix it???????????





iPhone sent by way of a bullseye


iPhone sent by way of a bullseye


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## JRHOADES20

Saved for later...


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## Swamphuntr

do you have to have a press to tune this bow?


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## Bill 2311

Yes. They are great bows but like almost all of the newer models, a press is required. And it has to one for the parallel and past parallel limbs.


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## z7xlw

Tag


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## Chris101

Tag


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## Sparrowhawk

Tagged


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## redcarpet

Just read every post on every page. Wow, what a wealth of information. I have a 340 coming that I bought off of the classifieds and am ready to see if it is already tuned or if I will gat to spend a day tuning it. I hope it is as good as I have read. I still don't see myself getting rid of my Tribby soon though, that's why I bought used this time, saved enough that I didn't have to sell to cover added expense of a new bow.


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## Lungbustah

Tagged


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## downumbowhunter

hoekma said:


> What I found when doing all of the right-to-left tuning is that if you adjust the top tighter it will pull the string down and vice versa on twisting the lower cam. It makes a significant difference with even a half-twist. This means you can't just tune the left-right separate from the up-down because if you need a 1/2 twist on one side of one cam to tweak a left-right problem you'll be pulling the arrow up or down.
> 
> What I do is
> 
> Make sure the arrow rest is centered at 7/8" distance from the riser.
> Get the arrow nocked level on the Berger holes like you did
> Get the lean on the cams as close to Baldy's recommendation as possible.
> Look at the position of the string on the tuning-dots on each cam. Just having them inside the dots isn't enough; both cams must align on the strings in exactly in the same position. top and bottom. Remember that tightening the lower strings will adjust the upper cam and vice versa. The tighter they are the shorter the valley, which might help your arrow jumping problem. This will also shorten the draw length and increase the draw-weight a little bit.
> Check the Axle-to-axle to make sure it is still 32 3/8"
> 
> Start tuning with the bare shaft. If it rips:
> 
> Up and left, put a half twist tighter in the upper left string. (pulls the string down by tightening the LOWER cam, makes it lean right by pulling down on the left side of the cam)
> Up and right, put a half twist tighter in the upper right string (pulls the string down by tightening the LOWER cam, makes it lean left by pulling down on the right side of the cam)
> Down and left, put a half twist tighter in the lower left string (pulls the string up by tightening the UPPER cam, makes it lean right by pulling up on the left side of the cam)
> Down and right, put a half twist tighter in the lower right string. (pulls the string up by tightening the UPPER cam, makes it lean left by pulling down on the right side of the cam)
> 
> I recommend at least 5-10 shots between adjustments to let everything settle in because the tears do seem to change after the first few shots, even with served "Ys"
> 
> Hope this helps and that I didn't screw anything up-- I'm sure someone will let me know if I did!


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## downumbowhunter

baldyhunter said:


> OK. I've been meaning to write this for a while now but haven't found the time. This is kind of an information dump on what I've learned about the bow so far and how/why I've been tuning it. This thread isn't a review other than to say that I love mine and have had zero issues with it so far.
> Since I got the bow three weeks ago I have installed two different sets of strings and cables on it (my own) and have tuned it from scratch three different times so I am speaking form more experience in tuning this bow than most. The first two pictures are of the bow in its current iteration. The strings I've made for it are black/flame with clear roller guard servings. I like the looks a tad better than the stockers but opinions...opinions. The strings are 20 strands of 452-x and the cables are 24. Everything is served with .014 Halo. I would like to point out how well the factory strings are made with one exception. Usually I can make a good pre-stretched set and see some immediate speed gains but that was simply not the case here. I made two different sets and played around with speed nocks for hours at a time (probably five or six all told) and could not find more than one or maybe two fps over the stock rigging. This speaks of how good the stock strings are. I did dislike one thing however. While I was tuning with the stock strings I did notice a need to "shoot in" the cables several times after each adjustment. Even then when I'd leave the bow for extended periods there was some movement as things settled over night. I believe that the "y" not being served on the cables was the culprit. When it isn't served the cable has two settle in two areas with each adjustment...it has to equalize at the legs then that pressure has two equalize within the entire strand bundle itself. Both the sets I made are served at the "y" and I didn't notice this tendency at all with mine. I simply made adjustments shot twice to settle and they stayed put. Therefore, if you like to tune your own equipment and tinker with your bows I believe you are better off with either a served "y" or a floating yoke. People that are keeping the stock strings may want to get the "y" served on the stock rigging. Also, while on the topic, I'd like to note how very sensitive this bow is to string weight. This is something to consider for hunters in particular. With the stock strings I put cat whisker silencers on the ends of each serving and in the normal mass. The bow dropped 8 to 10 fps!! I was able to get that drop significantly less by reducing the number of speed nocks to one per side and placing the silencers on the ends of the servings. This netted a 4fps loss but did help quiet the bow. The point is if you are going to put silencers on the string without compensating for the added weight expect dramatic speed losses. I've never personally seen a bow this sensitive to string weight. In the pictures you ca see that I came to the same conclusion Bowtech did...leave the silencers off the string or you'll suffer some speed loss.
> Now to tuning. Probably the single most important observation I can pass on to my fellow AT'rs is how very dramatic small adjustments make on this bow. As far as the split yokes go 1/2 turn adjustments at a time make a huge impact on tuning results so be carefull and always keep the big picture (ATA and specs) in mind while twisting. I would also like to note that I m a perfectionist when it comes to tuning and I see no reason why any of these bows shouldn't tune dead down center if you know how to yoke tune. I always tune my bows so that all three major tuning methods (paper, walk back, braodhead) complement one another. If I have to compromise one tuning method to get another in then I usually know my arrow spine is off which brings me to setup.
> Im using GT .340 spine arrows cut short (26.5") with a 100 grain tip. This arrow is approximately 381 grains. The bow is set at 67lbs with a 28" draw. I did chrono this setup with an IBO weight arrow at around (average) 328fps with a loaded string (mine) which puts it about 1 or 2 fps faster than the IBO rating.
> The first picture that relates to tuning shows what I believe is the best starting point for pre-angle for the split yoke/cam combo. This picture shows an arrow held flat against the upper cam like most tuners do for Mathew's idler lean placement. I start by placing the arrow rest exactly at center shot then work the cam angles into that position. I've found that the top cam needs to start top left so that the arrow held against it's left side meets the string just below my peep sight ( about 6.25" above center of nocking point). I hope you all can see what I'm getting at in the picture. Once this is set and I have both cams set at the same angle and my ATA and other specs are in as well including a good initial timing and synchronizing of the cams I begin with bare shafts through paper at about 5 yards. The reason I do this is because it shows very clear and immediate results for each change you make. Shoot and see what's happening and take care of the easy nock high or low adjusment first. With my setup a tail right tear was lessened by a half twist in each right yoke. The key is to use only 1/2 twists at a time and you'll be amazed at how much of a difference these small adjustments make and you'll see if the tear is getting smaller or larger then move again. If your trying to keep your timing exact once you see where you have to go with your static cam angle you can twist 1/2 in one side then if more is needed twist 1/2 out of the other thus moving the cam angle but keeping the overall cable length the same. You will soon reach a point where your tail right becomes a tail left (within three or four half twists in each of my cases) or vice versa depending on your situation. Now just note which position had the shortest tear and leave it in that position. Now all you have to do is make very very very slight adjustments to your rest to get perfect holes. I moved my rest maybe 1/64" or less and it took out the remaining 1/4" right tear. If it's a crappy day you can move back to 7 yards like I did and really fine tune it. The fourth picture is of paper tuning results at 7 yards in my garage. I've found if you can get bare shafts and fletched arrows to shoot perfect holes from 9 ft to 7 yards you will rarely have to move anything more than a very small fraction of an inch for any of the other tuning methods.
> Now it's time to go outside. The fifth picture shows the results of my bare shaft and walkback tuning. When I was only bare shaft tuning the bare shaft was flying so straight I was nock hitting with the bare shaft!! I did make a very very small bump tho the right to achieve this (so small it was hardly noticeable). The walkback tuning fell straight in line with no adjustment at all after I bare shaft tuned at 20 yards with the small adjustment noted. Some people may get picky and tell me I needed another bump back to the left but plaes note that a) all these arrows are within 3/4" vertically back to 40 yards and thats great shooting for me so I wasn't ready to adjust based on that b) there was a steady wind in the direction of the slant and c) I saw how straght the bare shafts were flying. I decided to check with 50 yard fixed blade braodhead tuning and those results are in the next picture. Needless to say I was very pleased. Impact points were exactly the same at fifty yards and I have since checked at 60 with the same results. The only adjusment I made after paper tuning was probably a less than 1/64" bump right.
> The last shot is my favorite and in my opinion proof that Bowtech is on to something special this year. Unless you tune alot of bows you probably will never know how rare this shot is. It's like a Unicorn or a five leaf clover...many of us have heard of it but never actually seen it. I'ts incredible that you can tune a bow this well adn have everything line up this well. The nock point is almost level with the berger holes; the arrow is lined up straight down the center lining up with the stabalizer and amazingly the sight pins are in perfect alignment with the arrow. I can tell you from experience that there are very very few bows that will do this and shoot this well to boot.
> Last two short comments. When drawing the bow there is no noticeable "twist" in your hand when the cables begin to take weight like alot of modern bows. I have never slapped my arm with this 6" brace bow yet and I've shot alot outside with a heavy coat on.
> THE END


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## bojangles808

tagged


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## fishybow

subscribed..


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## Gurwery

Destroyer tuning


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## zmelcher123

subbed


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## papachuby

Up top for the new OD Binary guys. 👍


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## eyedoc

This is one of the top 5 all time threads on AT. Very thorough job!


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## 3D JOE

Tagged! This is a bowtech boys heaven!


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## prbg

My specialist is shooting bareshaft to the left, will be trying this later...


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## MPKO

Thank you very much of this great thread. By following these instructions I was able to fully tune my carbon overdrive! Cheers!


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## jjl8440

Tagged


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## Emmons

Just picked up a 340 riser and cams, will be needing this soon for the tuning


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## 45er

I always like reading baldyhunter's threads. He knows from whence he speaks!


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## nwmnbowhunter

tagged


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## cterbow

found it


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## donnyscott

downumbowhunter said:


> Tagged


tagged


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## ctsmith

I'm a bow tuning greenhorn so bare with me. 

Bowtech Experience.

Steps for setting center shot are as follows:

First thing I did was rough time. 

Set to zero cam lean, tested with arrows running parallel to string. I realize that the finished tune will have cam lean but I set to zero to get a true center shot.

Fine tuned timing. Cam lean didn't change.

Set center shot on QAD rest. First thing I did was affix a string from limb bolt to limb bolt (center of bolt). Cut an arrow so that when nocked it is just short of string. Centered the arrow on the string to set center shot. To verify I nocked a full size arrow an eyeballed down a long stabilizer. Everything looked perfect. Dead center! The measurement was between 3/4 and 13/16, so I recon that equals 25/32.

Paper tuned. Remember that cams are still set to no lean. BAD tear tail left. If memory serves me correctly it took seven twist of the left side bus cables. Perfect tear.

Here's the catch. Now when I eyeball centershot with an arrow nocked it is not nearly centered up like it was in the beginning. Looking from behind the bow the arrow starts on the left side of the stabilizer and runs to the right side.

Is this normal? Seems to be shooting fine, walk back tune is good, but it sure looks better with the arrow perfectly aligned down center :wink:


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## Sean243

ctsmith said:


> I'm a bow tuning greenhorn so bare with me.
> 
> Bowtech Experience.
> 
> Steps for setting center shot are as follows:
> 
> First thing I did was rough time.
> 
> Set to zero cam lean, tested with arrows running parallel to string. I realize that the finished tune will have cam lean but I set to zero to get a true center shot.
> 
> Fine tuned timing. Cam lean didn't change.
> 
> Set center shot on QAD rest. First thing I did was affix a string from limb bolt to limb bolt (center of bolt). Cut an arrow so that when nocked it is just short of string. Centered the arrow on the string to set center shot. To verify I nocked a full size arrow an eyeballed down a long stabilizer. Everything looked perfect. Dead center! The measurement was between 3/4 and 13/16, so I recon that equals 25/32.
> 
> Paper tuned. Remember that cams are still set to no lean. BAD tear tail left. If memory serves me correctly it took seven twist of the left side bus cables. Perfect tear.
> 
> Here's the catch. Now when I eyeball centershot with an arrow nocked it is not nearly centered up like it was in the beginning. Looking from behind the bow the arrow starts on the left side of the stabilizer and runs to the right side.
> 
> Is this normal? Seems to be shooting fine, walk back tune is good, but it sure looks better with the arrow perfectly aligned down center :wink:


Bringing one of the best overdrive binary tune threads to the top I see.

So most Bowtechs from the factory come with some pre-lean already dialed in. You started with zero and then added a considerable number of twists in, so you moved your string a good distance to the right (looking from behind). I like a twist and a half to two full twists in my right yoke legs and 3 to 4 more twists than than that in my left yoke legs (rh shooter) as a starting point. Then, set that center shot and fine tune from there. You can even get real meticulous and cycle through that again because the string always moves with the yoke tuning in relationship to the rest.


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## ctsmith

Should the cam lean be the same on top and bottom? Assume equal twists but one is leaning more than the other.


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## KSQ2

Great info!


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## newbowthunder

Should I still measure cam lean from left side of cam even if my bow is lefthanded.


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## camo711

Great info thanks!


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## chasdog

Well my Destroyer 350 finally bit the dust a month ago when the bottom limb shattered. Sent it back to Bowtech and waited. After 2 weeks I went to my dealer and had them call Bowtech. My bow had been at the factory and come to find out they had no limbs to fix it. 
They offered me a free carbon icon for replacement. I ended up getting a rpm 360 for $300. 
They never sent my old bow back either. 
I like the new bow but felt the whole situation could have been handled better. 
So that's my story. Anyone else have a Bowtech break on them and what was your experience.


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## itr2000

chasdog said:


> Well my Destroyer 350 finally bit the dust a month ago when the bottom limb shattered. Sent it back to Bowtech and waited. After 2 weeks I went to my dealer and had them call Bowtech. My bow had been at the factory and come to find out they had no limbs to fix it.
> They offered me a free carbon icon for replacement. I ended up getting a rpm 360 for $300.
> They never sent my old bow back either.
> I like the new bow but felt the whole situation could have been handled better.
> So that's my story. Anyone else have a Bowtech break on them and what was your experience.


This is what scares me about mine. I bought the LE model and when i bought it. My pro shop claimed its life time warrenty so if it ever fails bowtech will build you no limbs! I soecifically asked him too, what if they ran out of limbs. And thats what he told me. Then yr later i am reading what you are saying to this day since my purchase. Scares me. I love the bow! I just cant stand what has happened to them so many times over and over!


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## itr2000

Also forgot to add. This is a main reason i dont want to tune mine myself as much as id love to. Bc if the shop breaks it! At least i have a better chance of something good happening hopefully. Verses if i tuned it myself and something happened! They will prob just claim i failed somewhere....


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## OCHO505

chasdog said:


> Well my Destroyer 350 finally bit the dust a month ago when the bottom limb shattered. Sent it back to Bowtech and waited. After 2 weeks I went to my dealer and had them call Bowtech. My bow had been at the factory and come to find out they had no limbs to fix it.
> They offered me a free carbon icon for replacement. I ended up getting a rpm 360 for $300.
> They never sent my old bow back either.
> I like the new bow but felt the whole situation could have been handled better.
> So that's my story. Anyone else have a Bowtech break on them and what was your experience.


I would and will gladly by a set of Barnsdale Limbs in whatever weight and won't peel before I send mine back!! I recommend this to anyone who needs limb replacement!!


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## chasdog

I didn't realize I could get replacement limbs from Barnesdale. Looks like for $175 I could rebuild my destroyer. I'm gonna see if Bowtech will give my bow back. Thanks for the heads up on this.


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## papachuby

I highly recommend the Barnsdales. Made a great bow even better👍


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## papachuby

Here's a pic of my 60lbers on my D340.


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## eyedoc

One of the best threads here in AT! Excellent info!


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## chasdog

papachuby said:


> I highly recommend the Barnsdales. Made a great bow even better


Just talked to my dealer and he says they won't send it back to me since it was a warranty replacement. 
Oh well


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## chasdog

I must say that I really don't miss my Destroyer 350 as I am very happy with my new rpm360. It's a faster bow and now that I have gotten used to it I love the smooth draw it has. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ishoothoyt

Tag


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## dlh30m

tag


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## Tony7781

Tagged as Im having problem tuning my INsanity. Im going to try and follow the steps from the beginning of this thread and seeing if that helps.


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## Turkey165

tagged


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## PAKraig

Anyone need a bottom Destroyer cam with roller bearing/pillow blocks? Shoot me a PM if so.


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## locusthill1831

saved


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## teampco

this is a great read ! i sure miss seeing these posts from the old bald one ..


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## Padgett

The key when reading this thread is to only read his posts. This is where I stopped wondering what yoke tuning was and became a yoke tuner.


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## DavidBLingo

For future reference


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## Daniel844

Tagged


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## 260rem

Tagged


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## Hazel

tagged


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