# Limited Shooting Dying out ?



## BigCnyn (Nov 5, 2008)

I put together a finger bow this winter, Older Martin Pro X Firecat, Energy cams
Wanted to get more competition, NO ONE around here enters the Trad, or BB divisions for score, NFAA or Local.

I found that Limited divisions are the same... No one around Southern Idaho? 

What Gives ?


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

BigCyn,

I know what you mean. I think that there is one guy, not me, shooting limited in our club. Less all the time. 
A few trad guys, I'm one of these. Rest are Olympic or release shooters.
I like trad, but was toying with the idea of setting up a finger bow for something different. May be no one to play with though.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

I shoot the bowhunter class(non-sights fingers) here in So.Ca. there are only about 20 of us left in the state that I know of.
No one wants to have to work at hitting the spot anymore, ppl say shooting this style is to hard, easier to use sights and a release.
Don.


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## BigCnyn (Nov 5, 2008)

I find it much more rewarding to still shoot fingers.
I set it up Freestyle, used a toxonics sight, moveable, but want to shoot my fingers...


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

I know exactly where you are at. I switched to a recurve 3 years ago partly because there were only 1 or 2 others that shot the IBO Hunter Finger class here in Michigan and I never crossed paths with them in person. With the stickbow classes you usually have a few others to shoot against at state level ASA or IBO shoots.

Hope it improves for you...:darkbeer:


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## dtirell (Jan 2, 2004)

Shoulder problems make it hard to go trad (although I am thinking of getting a low poundage longbow). I tried using a release and it did quickly improve my scores but I felt too disconnected from the bow. 

And while there are a few of us shooting FSL at my local range, I started using a sight, peep and longer stab and compete against the guys shooting releases. Sucks when I have a good night and still lose, but sure feels good when I am in the hunt as the only one using fingers.


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

I remember in the mid 80's, switching from barebow compound to traditional. You rarely saw a traditional shooter back then. About 10 years later it picked up momentum. I seem to remember the only trad shooters besides myself (teenager) were the old crotchety guys that were too ornery to shoot a compound. Now Trad is pretty popular. I hope Freestyle Limited has a similar resurgence.

I'm not a sponsored shooter, and I shoot indoors with a 24 year old Provantage set up with an old Check-it sight that has...GASP... an aperature! The comments about the dinosaur bow or shooting fingers always come up. I think of it as love! They often give me a pretty good ribbing. I also feel them watching me shoot because it is hard for some to comprehend shooting that well with my set up and...fingers. Don't give up! I am one of very few local shooters I know of in the state that shoot FSL, so I compete against release shooters. There is some satisfaction shooting a 300 on a 5 spot, or 290+ on a Vegas face when your competition has superior equipment.


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## BigCnyn (Nov 5, 2008)

I traveled to an IBO shoot in LeGrande Oregon, last year took my Recurve unlimited, and AGAIN was the only shooter in my class.
DAS Elite, Kaya Tomcats..

I still am going to try and shoot for me....


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Same around here and many local shoots are beginning to drop Limited classes so that further discourages people. But, on a higher note, this last weekend was the first time I've ever shot in the same group with another barebow compound shooter and not just one but two others for a total of 3 BB shooters in a group!!!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Yes we are in a long dark spiral for competitive finger shooting.

NFAA is making a big change this year to the Vegas classes they are dropping the Pro freestyle limited class

Most of the local shoots if they even support the limited class have very few shooters.

FITA has completely divorced themselves of the idea that its even an option. If you shoot a compound then you shoot the FITA unlimited class.


We are completely marginalized and it will only get worse.
Soon we will only be able to shoot fingers for fun or against release shooters (maybe same thing)


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

I think a big reason is that there's no money in it for the sponsoring companies. No release sales to push, not many of us shoot the $100+ drop aways, and a significant portion of us don't use sights. Combine that with the fact that a large number of finger shooters are shooting older bows because the new hunting bows are too dang short and we've lost pretty much any reason for a shoot sponsor to care if we're there or not.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Supermag1 said:


> I think a big reason is that there's no money in it for the sponsoring companies. No release sales to push, not many of us shoot the $100+ drop aways, and a significant portion of us don't use sights. Combine that with the fact that a large number of finger shooters are shooting older bows because the new hunting bows are too dang short and we've lost pretty much any reason for a shoot sponsor to care if we're there or not.


That is correct in one aspect, but on the other hand it there are only 4 shooters in a class and you shoot decent your shirt/bow/sights all get recognition when you pick up your trophy. At least that is what I tell my prespective sponsers. I am on the podium so to speak every shoot so every body sees my Mathews shirt and my Spott Hogg stickers and Vapor Trail patch (I am not a sponsered shooter just using the brands as reference). Dont get me wrong I would love to go to a shoot and shoot against 80 people like the hunter class has in it but the reality is every body wnats the instant gratification of picking up a bow and hitting a target. Then they say something stupid like I wish I could shoot with fingers. Someone on AT wrote "some people shoot archery others just use a release" I love that saying. I shot a shoot that had 175 shooters and 3 were fingers/sights. that just sucks!


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with you on the instant gratification society reducing the finger shooter numbers overall but most have never even tried shooting with fingers. The archery shops set the new guys up with a short bow, sights and a release and maybe gives them a quick run through so they can hit the general target and sends them on their way. Most never even realize that people can shoot compounds with fingers (just look at the posts in the general section saying that modern compounds shouldn't be shot with fingers). Why do the shops do this? Who knows each shops reason (selling more accessories, not having finger shooting equipment, instant gratification, etc) but it doesn't matter because it happens anyways. The only thing around now that actually trys to make new finger shooters is NASP. Those kids shoot that with fingers and no sights and many get quite good while doing it, but once high school is done there is nowhere to go with it. The sponsor thing I mentioned is towards a different segment (including those that have outgrown NASP) and that's causing established finger shooters to pick up a trigger and leave our ranks.

The only bright light I see for finger shooters is the number of hook and sight shooters that have began picking up traditional equipment. If we could get some of those shooters that aren't quite happy with the limits or their abilities with traditional equipment to try finger shooting a compound, I think many would find that connection or challenge that a hook can't give them but without some of the limits that traditional has.


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

I was not able to go but I got word that the Redding 3-D Nationals only had four (THATS RIGHT FOLKS... I SAID *FOUR*) shooters in the non-sighted money event.

So very sad. :sad:


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Boyd said:


> I was not able to go but I got word that the Redding 3-D Nationals only had four (THATS RIGHT FOLKS... I SAID *FOUR*) shooters in the non-sighted money event.
> 
> So very sad. :sad:


Wow, Redding seemed to be one of the last bastions for barebow shooters in the country. Sad news for sure.


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## BigCnyn (Nov 5, 2008)

my deal is Travel,, Redding is about 14 hours from me? 
I went there in 1993, traveled with 3 guys,, now days kids , food , gas it is just to much...


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

I am in total agreeance with you supermag I am just statig the short sightedness of the manufactures. They are the ones losing out a great marketing ploy. It does not matter that the score may be a little lower just that their products get some recognition.


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## Windrover (Jan 6, 2012)

Imagine how Fred Bear felt. His company was the biggest retailer of compound bows, yet Fred hated them. How did he feel watching his beloved recurves fade from popularity. How ironic that those of us who embraced the NEW compounds are now being left behind by technology we don't want or like. 
In the modern economy, "selling skill" is big business. Modern consumer man will attempt to buy a short cut any way he can.If you are in this thread then you know as I do that there is something special in an arrow released off of fingers that a mechanical cannot achieve. Most youngsters will never know that.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

Well said Windrover.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

Finger shooting is still holding pretty well in Washington State.

We just had our State 3D Championship the past weekend, and had LOTS of Traditional division shooters and a handful of Freestlye Limited (compounds, moveable sights, fingers) Bowhunter Freestyle Limited (compound, pin sights, fingers) and Freestyle Limited Recurve (olympic style) shooters.

I set the record for S-F-FSL as no one had shot that category before.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

congrats wa-prez the accomplishment maybe having the guts to shoot the class for the first time.


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## Stillfingers (May 6, 2008)

We've been trying to talk it up in IBO, and last weekend we had 65 finger shooters at the 1st Leg. They were spread out pretty good though, 17 (HF) Hunter Fingers, 7 (MBF) Male Bowhunter Fingers, 6 (MCU) Male Compound Unaided, 5 (PMF) Pro Male Fingers, 6 (RU) Recurve Unaided, 23 (TRD) Traditional, and 1 (YTRD) Youth Traditional.
All we can do is keep trying guys!
London is next for me!


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## Papa Hogg (May 23, 2012)

I have shot with fingers for over 30 years.....But the ol shoulder is giving up on me...I just recently got another bow setup using an release an Boy what an change...


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## hankw_2009 (Apr 2, 2009)

unfortunately any finger class is slowly dieing... i have shot fingers up to last year at local shoots and IBO levels. and yes this style is fading away. when i went to my first IBO worlds i was shooting the MBF(mens bow hunter finger{which i like the limited class}) and there was like 40 shooters now this year approx. 6 years later and all the finger classes are lucky to have 10 shooters. and all the local shoots i go to i was mostly the only shooter in fingers, and kept getting pushed into the hunter classes. so i got pushed into shooting release just to keep up with those guys(yeah i more then likely could of hung in there with them but the difference is i would have to find more practice time to keep up) SO WHAT IT IS COMING DOWN TO SHOOTING RELEASE MEANS LESS RANGE PRACTICE TIME THEN FINGER SHOOTERS. WHICH WITH TODAY'S ECONOMY(LOTS OF FOLKS HAVING TO WORK 2 JOBS) AND BOW MANUFACTURERS NOT REALLY CARING FOR FINGER SHOOTERS AND THE SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE TO PRATICE ALL DESIGNS ARE POINTING TO RELEASE SHOOTERS. SO WE WILL BE PRETTY MUCH FORCED INTO EXTINCTION.


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## hankw_2009 (Apr 2, 2009)

Maybe in the future thing will turn back in favor for us but i do not believe it will be for a long time.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Shot the California State Broadhead championship last weekend their were about 65 finger shooters longbow recurve Bowhunter and bowhunter freestyle not to bad we had 195 shooters in all by the the way Zestycj7 is the new Nonsight State Champ way to go Dude

Gary


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks Gary, it was an awsome weekend for sure.
Don.


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## Stillfingers (May 6, 2008)

Congrats Don! Way to go!

~Steve~


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## RAGINROADRUNNER (Jun 5, 2012)

I have been shooting my old Hoyt ProVantage Tracer with fingers for 24 years. The release boys like to watch, but most are either too lazy or too intimidated to try it this way. This form will not go away if we get together an form another barebow finger shooter group like the NBBA ( National Bare Bow Association) There are enough of us to get together and trade mail in scores and reunite this classic form of archery again , I switch back and forth from my compound and my Hoyt Olympic recurve. I shoot a "Bob Lee" longbow for hunting. My fingers hurt sometimes but I just push through the pain. I have shot releases and they have their place in archery, it just doesn't happen to be in my tackle box.


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

RAGINROADRUNNER said:


> This form will not go away if we get together an form another barebow finger shooter group like the NBBA ( National Bare Bow Association)


How about NBHBBA? (National Bowhunter Bare Bow Association) 
I’d love it.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

To clarify a statement made by Boyd earlier, there were only 4 barebow shooters who initially signed up for the barebow money team event at redding this year, however there were many more who wanted to sign up for it but were told that it would not be held because the person who usually runs that event, Tom daley, was recuperating from surgery and was not at the tournament. Even if it had been held, where were all the oregon and washington bowhunter, trad, and barebow shooters who get on here and blow each others horn? If my information is correct, there are still a large number of good barebow type archers around, they just choose not to come to better competition. I guess you can stay at home and tell everyone how good you are and be the local champ but why not go and find out how you fare against all the other local champs? You want recognition, respect and all that goes along with that but you don't put the numbers out there at major tournaments.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

At Nevada city June shoot (world bowhunter tean event ) we had 11 nonsight teams recurves and compound alike a pile of them were from Oregon and Washington were you there?


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

2413, With all due respect to the 4 0r 5 that showed up from those states mentioned, where were the boyd koehlers, the frank mccubbins and family, the dave eatmons, the steve fausts, the rick bromleys, the hickmans who I hear so much about, the rocky chisholms, darwin potters and I could go on and on. My point being that if you want to be recognized as a group to be recognized with, then when there is a shoot of the magnitude of redding or nevada city , get your lazy butts out there to support them.Anyone can be the lower chatahooche valley champ, but not too many get to be redding champ, the nevada city champ, or the Nfaa champ. Of course if you go to those bigger shoots it just might expose you to your friends back home who think you are the biggest thing since apple pie.:angel:


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

There's few barebow shooters as it is...don't kill each other- the numbers will drop.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Not killing each other. Trying to get the old fires burning again. Contrary to your statement, there are a lot of barebow shooters out there, they just need some motivation to get going again. Not bashing, just motivating.:wink:


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

My Mom used to tell me...."You'll draw more flies with Honey, than You will with vinegar".......Just sayin'......Jim


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

absolutey not killing I live in the middle of the state I go south and North to shoot and get my whippins at times. Boyd has just had knee replacement don't think Frank is shooting much. Rocky and Darwin are the new California State Broadhead State Champions Rocky in Longbow and Darwin in Recurve. can't speak for and don't know about the rest of them duckbutters but you are right we need to get the finger shooters fired up. the Mfg's don't care cause we don't buy sights and releases. We must teach the new guys how to shoot. See you all at the Ca State Field, The World Trad Championships in Tennisee and The NFAA outdoor in Mechanicsburg Pa in August. hope to you all come. just doing my part

Gary


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

itbeso said:


> 2413, With all due respect to the 4 0r 5 that showed up from those states mentioned, where were the boyd koehlers, Anyone can be the lower chatahooche valley champ, but not too many get to be redding champ, the nevada city champ, or the Nfaa champ. Of course if you go to those bigger shoots it just might expose you to your friends back home who think you are the biggest thing since apple pie.:angel:


To say the VERY LEAST... I take great exception to the above statement.
Take a very close look “my friend”. And then read on.



















Above all that (personally, the knee is just a physical problem I’ve had to deal with from way back in 1974 but just now got it fixed), our family has had ONE HELL OF A PAST FEW YEARS dealing with the ailing parents and the following death of both Mom & Dad!

AND... supporting our daughter as she had to deal with a DEAD-BEAT HUSBAND (who is now out of her life).

As far as my archery career (better put as my sport of choice) goes these past few years:
Lost my job i.e. Not enough funds to play archery much out of the state.
Got another job but do not have enough vacation time to go to all these shoots. (my last job I had 7 weeks vacation)
Dealing with target-panic. (BUT I’M BEATING IT INTO SUBMISSION ONE ARROW AT A TIME)


Please, correct me if I’m wrong but is sure seems like you’re calling me out. If so, get ahold of me, you and I can chat about it. Don’t just post it on archerytalk.

Oh, BTW, Who are you?

To be very clear;
I’m not calling you out. I have no need to.
AND, I’m not pissed. Just giving you a very clear understanding of why I haven’t been participating in enough tournaments that would make you happy.

Archery is a sport I enjoy because of the *people*, *places* and *rewards* of seeing the hard work of those who put so very much time into improving themselves. Be it hunting or tournaments.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

WOW I had to go back to the top and read to see what Forum I was in... with all the bickering I thought I was in the Trad forum....
I know that Redding had a fair number of Washingtonians there, several of us finger shooters. No Gerald Hickman and the wife didn't make it this year, guess his wife wanted to give someone else a chance to win for once. Dave Eatmon as far as I know hasn't been shooting anywhere for a few years now. If he has it hasn't been around up here. Gerald still competes and at a pretty high level, including kicking my butt once in awhile when he drags that recurve out. I understand "itbeso" that you are wanting to relight the fires, howver I am not sure the way you did it will get you the responses you want. By the way "WHO ARE YOU"?


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

By the way I am the biggest thing since apple pie just ask my wife . Boyd I have been seriously thinking about knee replacement but man those photos scare me more than target panic. 

Gary


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Damn, It seems I lit a couple of fires. Boyd, sorry about the hard times and no I wasn't calling you out, I was calling you out( as in get your butt back into the mix). I apologize for bringing Boyd's name into the conversation as I wouldn't wish those events on an enemy let alone a fellow barebower. The rest of the post stands as written.Rsarns- I beg to differ on the results of the post as I'm sure more of the old crowd will get the word and join in the fray, maybe even start competing again on a regional or national level. Boyd and 2413, you give me hope.


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## Boyd (Feb 7, 2003)

2413gary said:


> By the way I am the biggest thing since apple pie just ask my wife . Boyd I have been seriously thinking about knee replacement but man those photos scare me more than target panic.
> 
> Gary


Gary,
Don’t let the pictures scare you ANY. The Dr told me it would take 12 months to recover. It’s only been just 6 months and I’m better now then before I went under the knife.



itbeso said:


> Damn, It seems I lit a couple of fires. Boyd, sorry about the hard times and no I wasn't calling you out, I was calling you out( as in get your butt back into the mix). I apologize for bringing Boyd's name into the conversation as I wouldn't wish those events on an enemy let alone a fellow barebower.


No worries. I’m currently in the process of “Getting Back Into The Mix”. The simple word “process” encompasses so very many things for me right now. However, I’ve put tons of work in my shooting before and I’m well aware of mountain I must climb. With guys like Gary in my corner plus other class and world class archers, people, coaching ect, ect, “I’LL BE BACK”. 

When will we see YOU at these tournaments? And, how will we know it’s you?


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Boyd, will be there soon, just need to practice so I don't make a fool of myself on the range. You'll know me when you see me, I'm still the best looking barebower out there:wink:


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

If I could afford to go out of state or to shoots that are 8-10 hours drive I would. I would give anything to be able to compete against the top non-sight finger shooters.
But as it stands for now, all I can do is shoot the So. Ca. State and local shoots.
I do agree that we need to get more non-sight shooters, but it's way to easy and more money in the sales of sighted bows.
Don.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Same here... I try to make at least 2 of the National events every year, and the last few years that has been Louisville and Redding. This next year I will be adding Las Vegas. I would love to go to Mechanicsburg, however being retired I have to kind of watch my pennies and the sponsor (my wife) has to agree. So not this year. It will be in Darrington next year and thats only a few hour drive for me....


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## bsnider (Jun 18, 2012)

I recently pulled my 1978 Jennings Shooting Star out of retirement and was surprised at my local club 3d fun shoot to see that I was the only person shooting compound with fingers. I shoot RH with fingers(original learned RH barebow) and LH target as I am left dominant. I found it frustrating to be placed in the same class as those shooting release. I think I am going to continue shooting fingers just to stay in the the game.

My old bow is very outclassed by the current hardware. Does anyone have suggestions for a good bow for fingers?


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

Come over to longbows. It is the future of finger shooting. LOL! It really is the case, no kidding.


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