# Walk Back Tunning



## capool (Aug 5, 2003)

I can't find my copy anymore can some one help????


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## bullnuts (Dec 10, 2005)

Set up your target and shoot at 20 yards with your 20 yard pin. Move back to 30 yards, shoot with your 20 yard pin at the same dot. Move back to 40 yards, shoot at the same dot with your 20 yard pin. You want a 'l' type pattern. If you have a '/' or a '\', you need to move your rest slightly right or left, respectively, to get the proper line.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Here you go, walkback tuning*



capool said:


> I can't find my copy anymore can some one help????



Hang a weighted string from a nail on a target. 

Stick a round sticker on the target face so that the string splits the sticker. Use your existing 20-yd pin, step back 20-yards from the target and fire at the sticker. 

Don't worry about where the arrow hits. 

Walk straight back to 30 yds, and using the same 20-yd pin setting, 
fire an arrow at the sticker. 

Repeat at 35 yds and at 40 yds, using the 20-yd pin and firing at the sticker.

If your arrows look like this pattern " / " or “\”, 
then pick a direction and move your arrow rest 1/16th inch. 










If the pattern gets straighter (more vertical), then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction.










If the pattern gets more crooked, then adjust in the other direction.

Keep firing arrows and keep adjusting the arrow rest position until you get a vertical pattern of arrows.

Eventually, your arrows will hit in the target is a straight up and down line like this " | ". 










LOCK down the arrow rest setting. Your centershot is perfect.



But, your vertical pattern of arrows may not be hitting the string. 

The vertical pattern of arrows may be on one side of the string.
Let’s say the arrows are say 6-inches to the left of the weighted string.










Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch. Repeat the test. Fire arrows at least 3 distances, and see if the vertical pattern of arrows gets closer to the string.

If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting closer to the string, then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction. If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting farther away, then adjust in the other direction.

Eventually, you will have a vertical pattern of arrows right on top of the string.










Lock down the windage and lock down the arrow rest. Windage and center shot are now perfect.


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## thumperX (Jun 9, 2004)

*awsome explanation!!*

Awsome explanation from Nuts&Bolts!!!! had to save that to computer!!!


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Glad you like...making up material for a book I'm planning*



thumperX said:


> Awsome explanation from Nuts&Bolts!!!! had to save that to computer!!!


Glad you like.

I am starting to put together ideas for a book. I've started on the table of contents. Can you believe people want me to put pictures in the book as well? hehehehe

nuts&bolts.


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## lunghit (Aug 5, 2005)

thumperX said:


> Awsome explanation from Nuts&Bolts!!!! had to save that to computer!!!


Wow that was a good one. Ill be saving that one also:thumbs_up


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## tdaward (Jul 29, 2003)

I've been around this stuff for over 20 years and that was by far the best explanation of Walk back tuning I have ever read. Hurry up on that book, I'de love a copy. Never hurts to listen, I wish some people here would learn that....:zip:


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## Mulligan (Apr 4, 2006)

Excellent explanation! You may want to also include the need to ensure your sights are level with your bow prior to starting this process. Tinkering is half the fun eh?


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## Ar smith (Aug 11, 2004)

okay,i'm slow.i have never tried this but it sounds cool.i do have one question though-after setting the rest and moving to the sight adjustment ,by "windage" do you mean left/right or up/dwn?


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## dfe3l2n (Feb 22, 2006)

Windage = left/right


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## KYShooter (Jun 23, 2004)

Awesome Nuts! Thanks, that one gets printed and goes in my binder. With your permission of course. :wink:


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*That's the whole idea...print away*



KYShooter said:


> Awesome Nuts! Thanks, that one gets printed and goes in my binder. With your permission of course. :wink:


I think of them as I see the questions.
I made the pictures because I wanted folks to know that anyone can do walk back tuning, not just the pro shooters.

I've got the table of contents started. Maybe I'll get my book done before all the rest?

nuts&bolts.


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## creekchub (Mar 19, 2006)

ok i understand all that so far, but what if you knock is off. ( high nock or low) is there a way to tune that?


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## Purka (Sep 8, 2004)

Paper test, than shoot for a group, if your arrows string vertical,adjust the nock setting,until you get a group.


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## nwpa3dshooter (Mar 26, 2006)

that walk back tuning is the way to go for sure. the best part is that the archer is tuning the bow to them, i.e. hand torque, bow cant, release etc. sure cuts down alot on left to right misses for sure.


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## kvetch (Mar 6, 2006)

awesome post! Thanks for the info! 

Need anyone to help research the book for you? I'll only need a small stipend of arrow shafts :wink:


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## mo_hunter (Sep 27, 2003)

*great post*

Awsome post Nuts&Bolts!!!! You the man :wink:


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Awesome explanation! cant wait until my little guy wakes up so we can go try it!

NICE avatar as well........something about it makes me think of my Wife...:wink:


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## Ovationstation (Mar 31, 2006)

thumper how did you save this to your computer?


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## illbowhunter (Mar 18, 2005)

ttt


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## Gerry50 (Feb 6, 2006)

Like the way you put this together,easy to read and understand.
Have also saved it to computer just copy and paste into word no prob.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Here it is again...I reorganize my photo directory...walk back tuning with pictures*

Hang a weighted string from a nail on a target. 

Stick a round sticker on the target face so that the string splits the sticker. Use your existing 20-yd pin, step back 20-yards from the target and fire at the sticker. 

Don't worry about where the arrow hits. 

Walk straight back to 30 yds, and using the same 20-yd pin setting, 
fire an arrow at the sticker. 

Repeat at 35 yds and at 40 yds, using the 20-yd pin and firing at the sticker.

If your arrows look like this pattern " / " or “\”, 
then pick a direction and move your arrow rest 1/16th inch. 












If the pattern gets straighter (more vertical), then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction.












If the pattern gets more crooked, then adjust in the other direction.

Keep firing arrows and keep adjusting the arrow rest position until you get a vertical pattern of arrows.

Eventually, your arrows will hit in the target is a straight up and down line like this " | ". 












LOCK down the arrow rest setting. Your centershot is perfect.



But, your vertical pattern of arrows may not be hitting the string. 

The vertical pattern of arrows may be on one side of the string.
Let’s say the arrows are say 6-inches to the left of the weighted string.










Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch. Repeat the test. Fire arrows at least 3 distances, and see if the vertical pattern of arrows gets closer to the string.

If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting closer to the string, then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction. If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting farther away, then adjust in the other direction.

Eventually, you will have a vertical pattern of arrows right on top of the string.



Lock down the windage and lock down the arrow rest. Windage and center shot are now perfect.


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## jwbagm (Dec 12, 2004)

great post thanks nuts&bolts


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## Arrroman (May 11, 2003)

creekchub said:


> ok i understand all that so far, but what if you knock is off. ( high nock or low) is there a way to tune that?



Nock height for a bow is directly related to the balance of the bow's tiller.

A high nock point requires added tiller on the lower limb in order for the bow to shoot a level arrow in the target.

A lower than 90degree nock point requires additional tiller on the upper limb in order to shoot a level arrow in the target.

An even tillered bow will usually launch a level arrow from the 90degree position on the bowstring.

If you begin your tuning with the bow tiller set even, and the arrow nocked at the 90degree position on the bowstring, you can cure a nock high or nock low arrow by simply adding tiller to the limb bolt that is in the direction you want the nock end of the arrow to go.

This is the faster easier way to get the job done.

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>


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## bowhunter2117 (May 20, 2005)

]



nuts&bolts said:


> Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch..


Sir can you explain what exactly do you mean by sight ring windage thanks mike


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*sight ring windage*



bowhunter2117 said:


> ]
> 
> 
> 
> Sir can you explain what exactly do you mean by sight ring windage thanks mike


Centershot = horizontal position of the arrow rest.
You adjust centershot by moving the arrow rest left or right.

Sight ring windage = horizontal position of the sight ring.

On a pin sight like a Spot Hogg, the entire ring can move left or right by turning a screw. The pins are inside the round ring. The whole ring can move. Moving the whole ring is called adjusting the windage for your sight.

On a target sight, the scope can move left or right by turning a knob, because the scope is mounted on a threaded rod.


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## bowhunter2117 (May 20, 2005)

thank you


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## scottparker (Mar 31, 2006)

Very very nicely said


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## Darksider (Apr 14, 2006)

Arrroman said:


> Nock height for a bow is directly related to the balance of the bow's tiller.
> 
> A high nock point requires added tiller on the lower limb in order for the bow to shoot a level arrow in the target.
> 
> ...



That is unless your shooting a single cam bow. Which has no tiller adjustment, except to max the limbs out then back out limbs evenly to desired weight.
________

That method (walk back) is a good way to find form flaws too, especially, canting.


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## 2nd Nature (Apr 3, 2006)

This explanation should be made a sticky. It is the best and easiest to follow.
Shawn F.


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## lwilt (Apr 6, 2006)

*huh!*

If your bow is tuned and centershot why would you move your rest?


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## 2nd Nature (Apr 3, 2006)

You would move the rest if you did the walk back tune and found that the arrows are hitting in a diaganol line, rather than straight up and down. Once this is accomplished then it doesn't matter the distance, the arrow will still hit straight, just high or low depending upon yardage.
Shawn F.


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## Kuminatcha (Apr 15, 2006)

*1 quick question*

After your arrows are hitting on a horizonal line say 3 inches to the left, why do you pick a dirrection to adjust the windage? Wouldn't you simply move your sight to the left until you are hitting the line? Thanks


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## dodgensince74 (Jan 15, 2006)

*question*

when you move your rest to line up the arrows verticly with the string are you not voiding the process of doing the paper tuning  ?


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## BigWave (Dec 28, 2004)

dodgensince74 said:


> when you move your rest to line up the arrows verticly with the string are you not voiding the process of doing the paper tuning  ?


Most consider the Walkback process to be "supertuning". Paper tuning doesnt mean a whole lot. It just gets you close. When your arrows are leaving the bow after Walkback tuning, they are leaving the bow in the most efficient manner possible, in most cases.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Kuminatcha said:


> After your arrows are hitting on a horizonal line say 3 inches to the left, why do you pick a dirrection to adjust the windage? Wouldn't you simply move your sight to the left until you are hitting the line? Thanks


Adjusting the windage means to move the sight ring right or left.

So, the answer is yes.

When you have the center of your arrow groups, forming an imaginary vertical line, then the arrows are leaving your bow without any left or right error due to centershot (arrow rest horizontal position).

So, if the center of your three arrow groups (three distances)
is located 3 inches to the left of the weighted string,
then yes.....you move the sight ring (that's called adjusting for windage).


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

BigWave said:


> Most consider the Walkback process to be "supertuning". Paper tuning doesnt mean a whole lot. It just gets you close. When your arrows are leaving the bow after Walkback tuning, they are leaving the bow in the most efficient manner possible, in most cases.


Paper Tuning provides a hint at what is the problem.
Paper tuning is a tool.
Walkback tuning is a tool.

Shooting a bullet hole is not the end goal.

Shooting a bullet hole through paper at one distance will not necessarily guarantee proper arrow flight at short, medium and long range.

Paper tuning could be telling you any combination of the following things:

a) bow torque due to improper hand position on the grip
b) fletching contact
c) sub optimum nock travel due to cam timing
d) improper drop away arrow rest timing
e) too heavy or too weak spring steel launcher blade
f) poor follow through technique
g) flinching due to target panic
h) collapsing bow shoulder
j) sub optimal dynamic arrow spine
k) arrow rest too high or too low
l) d-loop too high or too low
m) centershot for the arrow rest needs adjustment
n) cam lean may need adjustment

So, walk back tuning does not replace paper tuning.
They both work together.

I use walk back tuning to set arrow rest centershot
and the sight ring position (windage).

I use OnTarget2! to double check the arrow dynamic spine.

A draw board can be used to check cam timing, and for cam lean
at full draw and at rest.

I will fire a bare shaft at a bullseye set at my shoulder height
in order to check if the arrow rest and/or the d-loop needs to
be adjusted up or down. If you fire a bare shaft from a level starting position and it sticks into a target also perfectly level, then the arrow rest elevation is good, and the d-loop nocking point is also good.

That's why I will recommend that paper tuning be performed last.
If centershot and sight ring windage have already been taken care of previously,
and
if cam timing, nock travel, fletching clearance, drop away arrow rest timing, and launcher blade angle have already been evaluated and fixed earlier,
then
paper tuning will only show you form flaws.

At this point, if you still have strange tears in paper,
then the bow hand position, the followthrough technique, and the draw length bow setting are the only variable that need to be evaluated further.

If you start with paper tuning, then you will guess at the root cause or causes.


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## minnow (Mar 2, 2006)

*Hurry with that book*

Nuts&Bolts, If you don't hurry with that book I'll probably have one made from all your posts that I find myself copying - pasting and printing to add to my "bow tuning" folder. The latest one on this thread is the best explanation I have found yet on the proper use of paper tuning. :darkbeer:


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## Kuminatcha (Apr 15, 2006)

nuts&bolts said:


> Adjusting the windage means to move the sight ring right or left.
> 
> So, the answer is yes.
> 
> ...


 I understand what you are saying here but step 4 is what is confusing. It shows the arrows are now on a vertical line to the left of the string. You say to pick a direction, any direction, and move your sight ring 1/16". My question is if you are hitting left of the string wouldn't you move the sight ring to the left instead of picking any direction? Thanks again and hope I explained it better this time.


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## IroquoisArcher (Jun 16, 2003)

Kuminatcha said:


> I understand what you are saying here but step 4 is what is confusing. It shows the arrows are now on a vertical line to the left of the string. You say to pick a direction, any direction, and move your sight ring 1/16". My question is if you are hitting left of the string wouldn't you move the sight ring to the left instead of picking any direction? Thanks again and hope I explained it better this time.


I think it was worded this way so if someone had the arrows hitting to the right of the line they wouldn't be confused by seeing "left" written down.


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## Allen7791 (Jul 18, 2006)

This is a very good method to tuning your bow. I would recomend taking your time. I have seen a lot of guys get flustered when they spent all day trying to get their arrows in a line and it wouldn't happen beacuse they got to tired and were all over the place. I would stop and continue another time if you start to get tired. Good luck.


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## CAJUNBOWHNTR (Nov 8, 2002)

So what if you start with an arrow spine that is not optimum? How will this be reflected in walk back tuning? will the arrow rest adjustment wind up out of the "normal range" indicating spine issues or will you not be able to get a decent vertical tune? If you get a vertical line of arrows 4 inches to the left could arrow spine be causing this and moving the sight is just masking the problem? Would you be better off bare shafting to get the proper spine then walk back tune? 


CB


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

CAJUNBOWHNTR said:


> So what if you start with an arrow spine that is not optimum? How will this be reflected in walk back tuning? will the arrow rest adjustment wind up out of the "normal range" indicating spine issues or will you not be able to get a decent vertical tune? If you get a vertical line of arrows 4 inches to the left could arrow spine be causing this and moving the sight is just masking the problem? Would you be better off bare shafting to get the proper spine then walk back tune?
> 
> 
> CB


Weak spine would usually be indicated by having to move the rest outside of the normal measured centershot of the bow. For instance on Hoyts 3/4" +/- 1/32" Mathews 13/16" +/- 1/32"


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## Purka (Sep 8, 2004)

I feel, when its spine, walking back,the line goes out, than comes back in again.


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## ont.deerhunter (Mar 26, 2004)

*Arrow Rest Height*

Does arrow rest height in relation to the riser make a difference in performance/accuracy? I realize that nock height in relation to arrow rest height is important but is the actual height of the launcher important.If i was to adjust the heigth of the rest to adjust knock height am I affectiing other things that i am not aware of??


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## pyroarch57 (Jul 13, 2006)

Here`s a quicker way.


Getting Centre Shot​
Did you ever wonder why your arrows hit right on at 20 yards, but as you move further back, the left/right impact of your arrows changes, moving more off centre, the further you move away from the target ???? 

Chances are good you do not have the centre-shot set-up on your bow properly. The following procedure will correct this problem.

For best results this should be done 
either indoors or in very calm conditions outdoors.

Using black tape, put a 2 foot long vertical line, about 1 inch wide on a shooting butt 

Stand about 5 yards from the butt and shoot at the vertical line until you are certain you are hitting it dead centre. 

Now, move back to about 25 or 30 yards at least and with the same sight pin or setting, shoot at the vertical line again. 

If your arrow is hitting to the left of the line, move your arrow rest to the right until you are hitting the line. (reverse if impact is to the right) 

Now go back to 5 yards and try to hit the line again. If it’s not dead centre, move your sight pin until impact is right on. 

Now, move back to about 25 or 30 yards and with the same sight pin or setting, shoot at the vertical line again. 

If your arrow is hitting to the left of the line, move your arrow rest to the right until you are hitting the line. (reverse if impact is to the right) 

Keep repeating steps 5 – 7 until the arrow impact is dead on vertically at both the 5 yard setting and the 30 yard setting without moving your sight pin left or right. 

When you have achieved this….you will have true centre shot. With a moveable sight, you should be able to shoot at 5 or 100 yards without adjusting the left/right of your sight pin.


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## nysbuckwacker (Oct 20, 2004)

creekchub said:


> ok i understand all that so far, but what if you knock is off. ( high nock or low) is there a way to tune that?


Check out my reply to the other Walk back tuning post.It worked for me maybe it will work for others.


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## 3D-Nut (Jan 26, 2007)

> a) bow torque due to improper hand position on the grip


This is why sometimes a bow shoots like it is "center shot" when the arrow is not even close to being squared with the riser.

Proper form and its concistency is one of the most critical things. Sometimes a shooters hand structure just wont allow a "proper" grip of the handle. This is where you just have to tune your setup to yourself and sometimes it may not be politcaly correct. As long as youre getting the best results downrange concistently, there is nothing to worry about, even if the arrow isnt square with the bow.

Also, every shooter is different, both in structure and tequnique. This is why it is hard for someone else to tune your bow for you. When it is tuned for me, it most likely will not be tuned for you.


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## asquires2 (Feb 12, 2006)

nuts and bolts, would this walk back tune ,tune your bow for distance shots? im wanting to be able to shoot up to 70yrds for the hell of it .


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## oneluckypops (Feb 24, 2007)

I am New to archery and this website and have already spent alot of time and money at the bow shop trying to get my bow set right and Never once have they told me anything that makes as much sence as your Infomation. I can already see that it would be nice to have you on myside with getting my bow set up CORRECTLY i made a post in the 3d section about my Bow I would really appreciate it if you could take a look at it and maybe give me a few pointers Please Feel Free To e-mail me.


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## rms2005 (Jan 1, 2007)

I have seen alot about this method of tuning but have a question.Can this pertain to a horizontal line as well by adjusting either you knock or rest up and down


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

creekchub said:


> ok i understand all that so far, but what if you knock is off. ( high nock or low) is there a way to tune that?



Walk back tuning is for center shot. Bare shaft tuning is needs to be done before attempting walk back tuning. Bare shaft tuning is best for determing high and low nock points.


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## htb (Oct 14, 2007)

So in what order should you do your tuning, Bare shaft, paper, walk back?


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

htb said:


> So in what order should you do your tuning, Bare shaft, paper, walk back?


.........Bareshaft....then Walkback....Then Paper....For me personally, after Bare shaft tuning, walkback tuning is usually pretty close.....I star bare shaft tuning at about 5 yards, and shoulder height....back it up to 10 yards, then 15 or 20, and if a bare shaft shoots good at 20, fletch a few up, and shoot fletched arrows, and bare shafts at the same time...Something like 3 fletched, and one bareshaft...the bareshaft will likely be a little bit left, for a right handed shooter, since it will be a tad bit stiffer, not having the weight of the fletching on the shaft to make it flex more....Once bare shafts, and fletched arrows are grouping, then walkback tune....I do have to do things a bit differently, sometimes, being a Finger shooter.....But Nuts & Bolts has this method nailed down!....Thanks , Nuts & Bolts for posting this........Harperman


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