# X-Force comparison with Easton Mapper



## Dave Hall (Apr 4, 2007)

Solid proof of the PSE X-Force vs. other brands- done by a dealer through the Easton Mapper. This is gives you the kinetic energy out to 70 yards for each bow and the pin gap associated with them.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

If that isn't proof of apples to oranges I don't know what is....


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## disturbed13 (Aug 16, 2005)

this is a very interesting post indeed
i really like how all of the data is actually readable
and you KNOW its the truth
there is absolutly no room for an argument
it is the scan of the tapes
and thats the printed truth
not regertiated from one person to the other


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

hedoe said:


> this is a very interesting post indeed
> i really like how all of the data is actually readable
> and you KNOW its the truth
> there is absolutly no room for an argument
> ...


Show me a vulcan or allegience 50 grains under IBO that won't reach 300fps.

Bad data in = bad data out.:wink:

The handwritten arrow weight is 305 grains, why does the tape read out 385grains? Why such a disparity in power strokes (different draw lengths)?


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## Rack-Attack (Aug 9, 2002)

> there is absolutly no room for an argument


what are the dl's of the bows???

why are the peak # not the same???

not a really good comparison when you have 1 bow at 60 and one at 70 and you don't know the true dl's of them


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Bobmuley said:


> Show me a vulcan or allegience 50 grains under IBO that won't reach 300fps.
> 
> Bad data in = bad data out.:wink:


Exactly, though God knows I hate to defend Bowtech, the script states 305 gr. arrow printout from mapper show 385 gr. arrow. Little consistency problem in the test.


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## x-shocker (Jan 25, 2007)

Dave,

Why did you use 305 grn arrow for the X-Force and 385 grn arrow for the other brands? Was that a computer typo?

To prove something is better than something else, one must keep all variables the same. In this case draw weight, draw length, arrow weight, arrow length, arrow rests, and archer should all be the same.


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## flntknp17 (Mar 12, 2004)

Anyone notive how the Vulcan had 2+ inches less powerstroke than the X-force? I shot the X-force and it really impressed me! But in order for a fair comparison the DL needs to be the same in all cases.

Matt


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

Just too many variables. Draw weight listed for X-Force is the same as the peak draw weight = 100 % efficiency from cams. Don't think so. I have shot the X-Force and it is fairly amazing, but if your going to compare performance make it a level playing field.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: 
What a bunch of hoooey!

The Vulcan is listed with a 20" powerstroke. It has a 6" brace so that means they set the draw length on 26 inches!!!

This guy must think we are total morons!!!

It's not worth even listing all the bogus info used in this comparison.

I don't even shoot any of the bows. I have taken the X-Force for a test run though.

:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:


This Yahoo just joined today. He's probably an alter an/or a complete fool!


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## Doum (Nov 17, 2005)

Yeah, doing a little math:

X-Force: power stroke = 23.4 inches = 23.4 + 1.75 + 6 = 31 inches draw length

Vulcan: power stroke = 20.8 inches = 20.8 + 1.75 + 6 = 28.5 inches draw length.

305 grns vs 385 grns.

Please...


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## disturbed13 (Aug 16, 2005)

what!
you guys havent figured it out yet?
oh i cant belive that!
okay here it is
_its nothing but an advertisement for PSE_
they are compairing thier latest and greatest 
(which shipley stands by through a hail storm)
to every competor out there in an attempt to get your business
i was trying to be a smart @$$ but i guess that no one cought on to it
they have a 10 # differance between the X-Force and the rest of the field
it shows that even if the competor is 10#s heavier
the arrow speeds are faster by far than the 10#s heavier competion
it also shows that the peak draw is only a margin smaller
and yet the arrow speeds all across the board are faster
faster by some 39 to 107 fps
if that isnt the best marketing scheme that i have ever seen
but i dont have the money to afford another bow right now
much less a pse


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

swerve said:


> Just too many variables. Draw weight listed for X-Force is the same as the peak draw weight = 100 % efficiency from cams. Don't think so. I have shot the X-Force and it is fairly amazing, but if your going to compare performance make it a level playing field.


The draw weight and peak draw weight has nothing to do with the cam efficiency. If it is a 70 lb bow the peak draw weight should be 70 lbs.


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## scottland (Oct 29, 2004)

So not impressed, let me know when you feel like doing a legitamate test.

You've basically said: My 31" draw length bow is faster than your 28.5" draw length bow. Oh ya, and your arrow is 30grains over IBO, mine isn't.


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

I'm sorry but this is a joke that's trying to manipulate data to show one bow better than the others. I am dying to shoot the x-force and that will be the true test.

Only the x-force says its the same weight hand written and on the printout. Same with the arrows. Only the x-force is shooting a 305gr arrow at 61# thus IBO min. Heck the Trib is only at 53.5# shooting a 385gr arrow. What do you expect. The others are all shooting a 385gr arrow from all kinds of different weights. It doesn't look like they maxed out a lot of the bows they used. They hand wrote the limb weights but the printed out actual weights in some cases were way below the max. Then the point about the draw length. Who knows what they are using. It shows the xforce with a 27.5 in arrow. I can easily shoot that in a 29"DL. According to PSE web site stats their speed of 333fps is about right for a 29"DL. Yet the others are all 28" arrows that can be from anything from 29.5 to 27 inches or worse. I can about guarantee that the SBXT is shot with a 28"DL as that is exactly what I have at the same weight they tested with an arrow w/in 5gr of theirs and that about what I get.

I think the x-force has a chance to be one heck of a bow and look forward to seeing PSE as a driving force in the future. But this data has no business even being posted. I've seen 5th grade science fair projects with better testing methods than this.


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## CoppertoneSPF15 (Mar 14, 2006)

Dave, you've done nothing to promote the X-Force with this blatantly rigged comparison. If anything, it's left a sour taste with some speculating this as a poor propoganda attempt by PSE. Whether you are officially affiliated with PSE is not certain. What is certain though is that this test is completely bunk and if anything, you've only succeeded in tarnishing PSE's image.


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

Doum said:


> Yeah, doing a little math:
> 
> X-Force: power stroke = 23.4 inches = 23.4 + 1.75 + 6 = 31 inches draw length
> 
> ...


fyi-the x force doesn't come in 31" draw....sorry


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

trimantrekokc said:


> fyi-the x force doesn't come in 31" draw....sorry


I don't think it comes in a 6" BH either.


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## DBL LUNG (Oct 3, 2005)

I don't know what this is trying to prove, but if your gonna do any kind of brand to brand testing the playing field should be equal. Same arrow, same draw weight, same draw lenght, ect.

19" Power stoke on the Tribute?


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## medved (Nov 1, 2005)

Everything in your comparison seems to be limited to 60 or 70 lbs, and 30 inches or less. Was that supposed to be a sort of a who's who of women's archery equipment?


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## rhenj (Aug 14, 2004)

The other interesting thing in this comparison is the Hold over and pin gaps. Obviously this data is already flawed by the initial discrepancies with bow weight, draw length and arrow weight, but you will also notice that the pingap charts and holdover are based on a 5 yard zero on the x-force and a 10 yard zero on all other bows. I would be interested in shooting this bow for fun, but anybody that has any sense at all should smell the:bs: involved in this post. If you have the latest and greatest, please make apples to apples comparisons and prove it, don't try to blow smoke where it does not belong.


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## DBL LUNG (Oct 3, 2005)

rhenj said:


> The other interesting thing in this comparison is the Hold over and pin gaps. Obviously this data is already flawed by the initial discrepancies with bow weight, draw length and arrow weight, but you will also notice that the pingap charts and holdover are based on a 5 yard zero on the x-force and a 10 yard zero on all other bows. I would be interested in shooting this bow for fun, but anybody that has any sense at all should smell the:bs: involved in this post. If you have the latest and greatest, please make apples to apples comparisons and prove it, don't try to blow smoke where it does not belong.




Good catch. I missed that.


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

What the, that makes no sense. I know for a fact that the SB XT is slower than the Dren, and I also know that the Hoyt Vulcan is faster than stated. There are way too many variables in this test, and it shows nothing!

You say the XT is at 70lbs, the tape shows that, then it says the Dren is at 70lbs, but shows 68lbs. Then the arrow weights for the X-Force are consistent at 305grs, and then you hand wrote that the speeds achieved with the other bows were at 305grs, but yet the tape shows 385grs. I shoot a Drenalin, and I know that 264 at 68lbs with a 385gr arrow is BS. Also, if you shot a 305gr arrow, well the Dren would be shooting more like 340, and the Allegiance would be even faster than 350 without a doubt. Anything else you want to prove, Mr. Dave Hall (are you located in Arizona by any chance, at a certain factory)...


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## disturbed13 (Aug 16, 2005)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Anything else you want to prove, Mr. Dave Hall (are you located in Arizona by any chance, at a certain factory)...


you all know that he isnt going to respond....... right?
that is his first post and now that everyone has pointed out the flaws
hes not going to bother
his public profile isnt filled out
so i would say yes
but i really dont care
where he is or why he did this
he should at least announce his mistake
but thats just my thoughts


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## elk stalker (Aug 30, 2004)

I have these findings also. They were sent to us last week. I hadn't posted them yet because I was yet to have the OK to post them up. I did notice the descrepencies of what the script wrote and the mapper gave for arrow weight. That was the biggest thing I notice. 

However, lets say that the mapper is correct at listing the arrow at 385gr. I am going to use the Allegiance as an example. At 70 lbs, with a 385gr arrow, at most distances are getting less KE than an X Force set at 60lbs shooting a 305 gr arrow. That's the main part of these tests. 

These tests are real, and I'm pretty sure that Dave Hall (don't even know who he is) did not conduct them. In realness, the X Force is really something great. Don't take my word or anyone else's, please go and shoot one for yourself.  The bow will speak for itself, and if you hane any questions once you shoot it, let me know and I'll get you some answers.


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## Bologna Xpress (Jan 3, 2007)

Gee.....its odd Dave has not responded? Maybe Dave is an ALTER?:mg:


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## EricO (Nov 24, 2004)

medved said:


> Everything in your comparison seems to be limited to 60 or 70 lbs, and 30 inches or less. Was that supposed to be a sort of a who's who of women's archery equipment?



:ban: 


Dude what are you trying to prove? God made the majority of other people different than you. I'm glad that you can shoot a lot of weight, with a long d/l. Let it go. Seems as if someone is compensating..... Don't you have some speed pros to go shoot somewhere? :darkbeer: 




As far as this test goes, it would certainly be more credible if the arrow weights, zero distance, d/l, and dw were the same.


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## Dredly (May 10, 2005)

Don't forget that the target differnece is twice what it is is for the Non-PSE bow as well as far as I can tell


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## rhenj (Aug 14, 2004)

The one thing this test does show is that the X-force is going to be a rough bow to draw. People complain about the Allegiance being tough but by the curve on these maps, the ally is one smooth puller by comparison.


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## medved (Nov 1, 2005)

Logically you're right.... Problem is that when the entire approach of a company with PSE's market share to people over six feet tall or over 180 lbs is to pretend that they don't exist and hope they go away, there's a problem. Somebody like John Edwards would likely see a potential class-action lawsuit in that.

Therefore when these guys with their ultimate superbow for little people start talking like it's the ultimate superbow and neglect the adjectival phrase, I feel it my duty to remind them of it once in a while.


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

medved said:


> Logically you're right.... Problem is that when the entire approach of a company with PSE's market share to people over six feet tall or over 180 lbs is to pretend that they don't exist and hope they go away, there's a problem. Somebody like John Edwards would likely see a potential class-action lawsuit in that.
> 
> Therefore when these guys with their ultimate superbow for little people start talking like it's the ultimate superbow and neglect the adjectival phrase, I feel it my duty to remind them of it once in a while.



Am I missing something here????   

I'm 6' tall, weigh 260 lb. and if I wanted to I could comfortably hunt with 80+ pounds of draw weight. I'd be willing to bet that if I were to shoot PSE I could find a bow to fit me.


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

elk stalker said:


> I have these findings also. They were sent to us last week. I hadn't posted them yet because I was yet to have the OK to post them up


I think it's pretty clear with the vast majority of posts and number of views that people would love to see the results...me included or I wouldn't have looked. I am not here trying to act like some fanboy demanding pics, depostitions,etc. I would like to know who "They" are as in the ones that sent it to "us" last week. Is it PSE because if so, they certainly have the resources available to obtain all bows tested at the same draw and weight. Until the test is done with the same draws, weights and arrows the results show absolutely nothing to anyone. 

Please, for the sake of the integrity of what's posted on this site, get with those that can give the OK to post it and get the tests done properly. Now that would be interesting info to look at. Some will still cry foul and that's just the way it is, but most of us simply expect it to be tested properly so we can learn something without it appearing to be obviously biased.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

elk stalker said:


> I have these findings also. They were sent to us last week. I hadn't posted them yet because I was yet to have the OK to post them up. I did notice the descrepencies of what the script wrote and the mapper gave for arrow weight. That was the biggest thing I notice.
> 
> However, lets say that the mapper is correct at listing the arrow at 385gr. I am going to use the Allegiance as an example. At 70 lbs, with a 385gr arrow, at most distances are getting less KE than an X Force set at 60lbs shooting a 305 gr arrow. That's the main part of these tests. This could be valid IF the bows are of the same drawlength, they're not.
> 
> These tests are real, and I'm pretty sure that Dave Hall (don't even know who he is) did not conduct them. In realness, the X Force is really something great. Don't take my word or anyone else's, please go and shoot one for yourself. The bow will speak for itself, and if you hane any questions once you shoot it, let me know and I'll get you some answers.


I shot one, and its OK. I wouldn't call it great, but it'll sure get the job done for lots of hunters this fall.


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## Ethan (Jan 10, 2005)

when the tests are done carefully following the "scientific method" maybe ill take a closer look. more than one variable was changed (arrow weight, poundage, draw length). follow that method, and then lets see what you get. i dont doubt that the x-force isnt fast, but lets make it a fair comparison.


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## medved (Nov 1, 2005)

PABowhunt4life said:


> Am I missing something here????
> 
> I'm 6' tall, weigh 260 lb. and if I wanted to I could comfortably hunt with 80+ pounds of draw weight. I'd be willing to bet that if I were to shoot PSE I could find a bow to fit me.


It would be an older bow. They probably figure there used to be people over 6' but they're all getting old now and need older bows....


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

medved said:


> Logically you're right.... Problem is that when the entire approach of a company with PSE's market share to people over six feet tall or over 180 lbs is to pretend that they don't exist and hope they go away, there's a problem. Somebody like John Edwards would likely see a potential class-action lawsuit in that.
> 
> Therefore when these guys with their ultimate superbow for little people start talking like it's the ultimate superbow and neglect the adjectival phrase, I feel it my duty to remind them of it once in a while.


medved what is your problem....you constantly talk out your rear about this same subject...
if i read you right which i am sure i have since you've spouted the same stuff over and over where this bow is concerned ...you are saying that anyone who is under 30" draw is shooting a woman's bow? Not everyone is so insecure in our manhood and has to shoot high weights and long draws....
oh and by the way, i'm 6'3" 200# and find a 29" draw to be the best fit for shooting backtension...i could shoot longer but i like to shoot with proper form... :wink:


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

I have the Easton Draw Force apparatus myself and it's a lot of fun to play with. You have to type in some data, such as arrow weight, and you can make typos but the velocity is direct read. The data I've gotten off my bows appears to be repeatable. Sight marks are only an estimate to get you going. I have no idea if the above data was done well. The equipment is reasonably priced for such things - why don't you guys try it yourself?


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

medved said:


> It would be an older bow. They probably figure there used to be people over 6' but they're all getting old now and need older bows....



Why couldn't I shoot the X-Force? or any of the other newer PSE bows for that matter???


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## elk stalker (Aug 30, 2004)

Guys, these were sent to me by my rep. I don't know if they were engineering tests, or if a shop somewhere did the tests and passed them to the rep. I've been waiting to hear back from my rep to see if these were official tests and if I could post them. I had not, so I did not post them. Hopefully this answers flintcreek6412's question.


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## Archery-Addiction (Nov 1, 2005)

Looking through those test made me laugh, all the data is messed up and the numbers coming out of it is even more messed up.


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## 88 PS190 (Sep 26, 2006)

my opinion stands, they didn't test any bows with IBO ratings near what they were doing.

Plenty exists and everyone knows that the market for the ultraspeed bows is not huge.


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## AndyMo (Oct 25, 2005)

So a 60# x force will shoot faster than a 53# tribute....

Let me run out and buy one.

Its sort of like saying that my Mustang will smoke your Escort in the 1/4 mile.


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## HotShot88 (Jul 19, 2005)

People can run all the tests they want...wether its a fair comparison or not...I dont care what the data shows....I'm not buying an X-force because when I shot it ..it dang near rattled all the teeth outta my mouth. Its fast...but I think I'll stick to my Vulcan.


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

*The REAL TEST*

Here is the NEW X-Force challenge video link. The results are in. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBJKCrhqR-M


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

HotShot88 said:


> People can run all the tests they want...wether its a fair comparison or not...I dont care what the data shows....I'm not buying an X-force because when I shot it ..it dang near rattled all the teeth outta my mouth. Its fast...but I think I'll stick to my Vulcan.


I have shot several different ones and none of them felt even close to that.


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## machinegun74 (Jul 24, 2005)

Have a Mod run the IP, I bet it comes back from the PSE Factory, Ive never seen such a bending of the truth. Look at those speeds kicked out by everyone but the PSE. Im calling Marketing BS.
:spam: :spam: :spam: :spam: :spam: :spam: I like mine fried on toast:wink:


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## thebeav (Jul 1, 2005)

*New Bows*

I think that they are nice bows and I think that you guys should go out and shoot them and you will know for yourself. PSE has had some time off butt I think that it is great to see all the competition with all of the bow companies out there. I like the Vulcan the X-force and the drenaline, shoot them and make up your own mind that is what I would do if I was that worried about it, I have shot alot of different bows and will tell you that it shoots as good as any of them. Hope you guys find what you are searching for, all I know is I will shoot whatever shoots the best for me and enjoy the sport, hell at least I have the problem with all of these bows to choose from instead of being stuck with all of my friends shooting the same old crap. Enjoy life there is better things to bicker about then a bow that you have never shot or dont intend to shoot.


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## kiwibowpro (Apr 24, 2003)

Nice comparison of Apples to Onions --- tosser !!


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