# How quiet do ILF bows really get?



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Greg - 

We have no idea what you're hearing, what you're comparing it to, or what your expectations are.

There are just too many people hunting with ILF rigs, making it unlikely that they aren't quiet enough for the task. 

Most of the time, it comes down to choosing the right components (limbs, strings, arrows) and proper tuning; "silencers" have to be a last resort. I do agree that (in my experience) a Dacron string can go a long way to making a bow (almost any HP bow) quieter. While a different tune will be required, at hunting distances, there really shouldn't be any down side to B-50. 

The above assumes that there isn't something structurally or mechanically wrong with the riser or set up.

Viper1 out.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

A dacron rope with beaver balls is definitely two steps in the wrong direction.

I have owned longbows that require higher BH than 7"s.

The 3 things that quieted my ILF's down the most were...

1. Yarn puffs for string silencers.

2. Removal of the spring loaded ILF dovetail stud retention pins.

3. Felt lining the area between the limb bases where the rockers contact the riser.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)




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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Bowmania said:


> View attachment 4515449


LOL!!!!! :laugh:


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Brace height to me is the key component of quiet. Everything after that you're trying to muffle something that at a baseline level pre-exists.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

JINKSTER said:


> Bowmania said:
> 
> 
> > [iurl="http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=4515449&d=1468332873"]
> ...


 Yeah that's a lot of silencers. 

Well, I am using the brace height recommendations from the Morrison website. He says 6 1/2" to 7". His limb pad angles are pretty steep. Maybe I don't have enough preload. 

I am using about 500 grn arrows. They fly straight and true, but loud as balls. 

Maybe my tiller is wrong? I've played with it from 3/16" to even, and no difference. Knock point seems right with my arrow flight being perfectly straight so I don't think that's it. I guess something could be loose.


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## Susquehannabum (Sep 17, 2010)

What kind of noise? Twang or a clack?


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Susquehannabum said:


> What kind of noise? Twang or a clack?


Ok so, with the Dacron string with endless loop, yarn wraps, and beaver balls but with no limbsavers, it's a soft thump followed by a long boing or hum of the limbs vibrating. When I add the limbsavers it turns into a slightly louder clap. That's the most silent set up. 

With the Flemish yost BCY-X and cat whiskers it's a loud clap, with and without limbsavers. High pitch, but no boing or hum after the shot. I have yarn wrapped up to the loop. I have not tried beaver balls on this string yet. 

The BcY-x sting set up gives me the best performance at 3/16" positive tiller, 2 1/2 cranks out on bottom bolt, 3 1/4 cranks out on top. Knock point is almost 1/8" above center. Parabolic straight fletch 400 spine 500 grn arrow flies perfectly straight and groups inside of a quarter at 15 yards. But it's a loud, high pitch and quick clap/slap.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Ilf can be as quiet as other Limb attachment methods 

IMHO Bobs brace height recommendations are too low 

All bowyers will recommend the softest pulling fastest setting not necessarily the 'quietest '

Crank up your brace play with things and as long as there is nothing loose it will quiet down


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Really appreciate the feedback guys! Keep it coming!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Greg - 

Since we don't know what's going on and basically making blind guesses, based on what's been said, you're arrows are, or are acting way too stiff. 
Raise the brace height and/or add head weight and see what happens.

Viper1 out.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

That's a great point to bring up. I don't really understand how the characteristics of the arrow flight can affect the sound a bow makes. Does it have to do with the inertia of the arrow, and the amount of give the arrow has as it pertains to resistance on the string? My 500 spine helical also fly well, but I just assumed the helical was giving my false trueness in the arrow flight.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

The 500s are not much quieter though. They are also different brands. Beaman, and gold tip. I might be overthinking this...


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## Cwilder (Jun 4, 2006)

Move BH up closer to 8"


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## R8R (May 15, 2016)

Pull all that crap off the string, get a good quality FF string, then adjust your BH till you get the best balance of performance and sound. Look for the sweet spot. Be methodical.

A noisy shot may be due to riser design, riser material, a particular set of limbs, a particular string, BH, etc etc etc. Noise comes from vibration, and vibration is imminent. Go for best performance and live with the results. Unless you are trying to be a ninja assassin, what's a little noise?

My olympic ILF setup sounds like a bag of spanners compared to my Bear Super Kodiak. The Bear has NO silencers on it, just a flemish string and careful BH adjustment. I love the way both of them shoot though.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

R8R said:


> Pull all that crap off the string, get a good quality FF string, then adjust your BH till you get the best balance of performance and sound. Look for the sweet spot. Be methodical.
> 
> A noisy shot may be due to riser design, riser material, a particular set of limbs, a particular string, BH, etc etc etc. Noise comes from vibration, and vibration is imminent. Go for best performance and live with the results. Unless you are trying to be a ninja assassin, what's a little noise?
> 
> My olympic ILF setup sounds like a bag of spanners compared to my Bear Super Kodiak. The Bear has NO silencers on it, just a flemish string and careful BH adjustment. I love the way both of them shoot though.


Great advice, and yes I am going for ninja assassin archer. Who isn't?????


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Greg - 

Again, this is guess work, so take it FWIW. 

A stiff (acting) arrow will paradox late, and the tail will hit the riser. 
What you think may be bow noise can actually be arrow noise. 
A tell tail sign of that is early wear of one or more hen feathers (the two that face the bow). 

A physically heavier arrow will "absorb" more energy from the limbs, and if there was an excess to begin with, it gets translated to sound. Unfortunately, that's usually the case with a rig that was either improperly tuned or not tuned at all. 

Viper1 out.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

*"How quiet do ILF bows really get? "*

In my experience, as quiet as any other t/d recurve on the market.

KPC


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I have four ILf rigs, different limbs, risers, lengths. All are quiet. I'm either lucky or setting them up properly. They aren't as quiet as a D style longbow but no noisier than an old Bear Kodiak or other classic recurve. They make a different type sound but are not noisy by any means. I even quieted my target rig down since I hate shooting a loud bow.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Well, I worked my way down from 8-1/2" down to 7, I took off all my silencers, and it's not any quieter. I tried two different spines arrows too. Must be something I'm missing. The limb butt isn't touching the riser. All of the moving equipment feels really solid. The high brace hieght took out the buzz after the shot, but the initial shot is still pretty loud. I just don't get it. I'm gonna shoot my longbow for a while.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I have a 17" Morrison with Carbon Extremes in mediums and mine is the quietest I have ever shot. Start with a low brace and move up. Mine is 6 5/8". (hey, it works for me).
I also went to a 16 strand BCY-X string with the loops padded with extra material. I use rubber whiskers. For set up, don't use any silencers. I shoot +1/8" positive tiller and three under. Arrows range from 385 grains to 530 grains.
Now the wood/glass BlackMax limbs are a bit noisier but I also attribute that to the lighter poundage.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Bill 2311 said:


> I have a 17" Morrison with Carbon Extremes in mediums and mine is the quietest I have ever shot. Start with a low brace and move up. Mine is 6 5/8". (hey, it works for me).
> I also went to a 16 strand BCY-X string with the loops padded with extra material. I use rubber whiskers. For set up, don't use any silencers. I shoot +1/8" positive tiller and three under. Arrows range from 385 grains to 530 grains.
> Now the wood/glass BlackMax limbs are a bit noisier but I also attribute that to the lighter poundage.


That's so funny, we have almost the exact same set up. I have a 15" phenolic riser. I had to lightly sand down the limb butts so it wouldn't hit the riser. I don't know, it just seems so loud to me. How do you lad the loops? Wrap with yarn all the way around?


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Thanks for the advice guys. I know it's not the equipment, but I'm not sure what is wrong.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Greg - 

Typical things that a shooter can do to make a bow noisy are:
Plucking
Collapsing
Bow hand torque.

IOWs, almost anything.

Only advice that can work would be to find an experienced shooter to examine your equipment and watch you shoot.

Viper1 out.


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## stringstack (Jun 10, 2016)

Upping your arrow weight is the #1 way to make your bow quieter. 

500grain arrows out of a high performance Oly style 45# recurve that's built specifically for speed is pretty light. I'd shoot for 600 to 650 grains and bump that brace height up to 9". 

If that doesn't work than you might want to look into a trad bow for hunting since I have noticed that Oly style recurves do tend to be quiet loud and make a loud boing sound comparing it unsilenced to an unsilenced trad recurve.

Even my cheap Red Stag that cost $150 is extremely quiet with 10gpp arrows and an 8" brace height with no silencers. With a single pair of silencers all you can hear are the feathers flying down range.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

stringstack said:


> Upping your arrow weight is the #1 way to make your bow quieter.
> 
> 500grain arrows out of a high performance Oly style 45# recurve that's built specifically for speed is pretty light. I'd shoot for 600 to 650 grains and bump that brace height up to 9".
> 
> ...


The bows in question are not Olympic style bows


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## babsarcher2781 (Oct 2, 2014)

I like my strings made from fury, it seems to quiet my bow more and I like rubber silencers. Heavier arrows seems to help too, plus I put felt in my limb pockets. My Ilf sounded like a gun going off but since I made these few changes it sounds hunting quiet to me. I also found postive tiller by a .25 inch seemed to help too. Make shure screws are tight too I had a grip screw loose that was making some noise.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

babsarcher2781 said:


> I like my strings made from fury, it seems to quiet my bow more and I like rubber silencers. Heavier arrows seems to help too, plus I put felt in my limb pockets. My Ilf sounded like a gun going off but since I made these few changes it sounds hunting quiet to me. I also found postive tiller by a .25 inch seemed to help too. Make shure screws are tight too I had a grip screw loose that was making some noise.


Fury string and cat whiskers on mine. think my arrow is 550gr, maybe more. bow seems more quiet then my arrows and shooting great.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I get the strings made with padded loops. 
Daniel made a couple for me. I might still have one from when I was shooting the 15" Morrison. If not, here is his contact info: Daniel Binkley <[email protected]>


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Greg,
I do have one of Daniel's strings that should work. I sent you a PM.


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## bobreeks (Dec 29, 2009)

Have you tried raising your nock point. 1/8" seems low to me.


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## WoodsmanRyan (Jul 1, 2016)

I had a question for the ILF experts in the room. If the dovetail in the limb sticks out a little extra and the limb is very 'wiggly' when unstrung, would this cause the limb to rattle or slap on the shot?

I ask because I have one ILF bow that bareshaft and paper tunes fine, but it's still not as quiet as my others. I did have one set of limbs that fit too tight and I would get a 'squeak' when I pulled back. Pounding out the dovetail and giving it a little more room fixed that one.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Well, I worked my way down from 8-1/2" down to 7, I took off all my silencers, and it's not any quieter. I tried two different spines arrows too. Must be something I'm missing. The limb butt isn't touching the riser. All of the moving equipment feels really solid. The high brace hieght took out the buzz after the shot, but the initial shot is still pretty loud. I just don't get it. I'm gonna shoot my longbow for a while.



Would it be possible for you to post a close up picture of your rig (strung) like the one shown here:









I realize your Morrison probably has an enclosed limb pocket, so it won't quite look like this one, but this is the angle and position I'm looking for.

Thanks,

KPC


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

KPC may be on to something. Do your limbs still have those clear plastic hickey's on the bottom of the limb butts?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

stringstack -



stringstack said:


> Upping your arrow weight is the #1 way to make your bow quieter.


No, it's not. Almost anything you do to "quiet a bow" will result in some performance loss, but adding arrow weight is the last thing I'd consider, unless the arrow was borderline being too light, typically that means under 7 grains per pound.



stringstack said:


> 500grain arrows out of a high performance Oly style 45# recurve that's built specifically for speed is pretty light. I'd shoot for 600 to 650 grains and bump that brace height up to 9".


1. Olympic bows aren't built as chrono queens. They are built for overall stability (both kinds) and balance. The speed thing is just a by-product. 
2. I don't know too many Oly types shooting a 500 grain arrow from a 45# rig, much less 600 - 650. 
3. Brace height depends on the bow length, bow/arrow combination. It's a tuning parameter, so making wild suggestions doesn't help. 



stringstack said:


> If that doesn't work than you might want to look into a trad bow for hunting since I have noticed that Oly style recurves do tend to be quiet loud and make a loud boing sound comparing it unsilenced to an unsilenced trad recurve.


Not always true. And a lot of the sound you hear on an Oly bow may be due to the moving parts, (clicker, rest, etc) or in some cases things rattling loose. It's usually not the bow itself, at least not if it was set up correctly. The first step in tuning any bow, Olympic or otherwise, is by sound and trained shooters can tell a good shot from a bad one by sound alone. 

Viper1 out.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Well, I worked my way down from 8-1/2" down to 7, I took off all my silencers, and it's not any quieter. I tried two different spines arrows too. Must be something I'm missing. The limb butt isn't touching the riser. All of the moving equipment feels really solid. The high brace hieght took out the buzz after the shot, but the initial shot is still pretty loud. I just don't get it. I'm gonna shoot my longbow for a while.


You've had a lot of advice so far and still don't seem happy.

In my experience, even a well tuned recurve is going to be a bit louder than a well tuned longbow. It isn't just the amplitude of the sound either, it's the duration. Recurves just sound different than longbows, at least the ones I've worked with. I'm a recurve guy and work to get my bows as quiet as possible, but no matter what I do the recurve is always a little louder that the longbows I've had. 

The one difference and a place where a lot of the noise of a recurve comes from is the area along the limb where the string makes contact. If you don't put some kind of dampening material there you can get quite a bit of fluttering noise as the limb and string vibrate against each other after the arrow is gone. Even with a heavy arrow there's still a lot of energy dissipated by the bow and anything touching the limb but not firmly attached will only add to the noise. 

A longbow doesn't have this string/limb contact area although I've seen some radical hybrids that might have just a touch as the limbs travel forward past the brace position.

One remedy for string/limb noise is either moleskin along the limb from the grooves to about an inch past the last contact point between the string and limb. Another is to tightly wrap the string with wool yarn from the string loop down to a point about an inch past the last point of contact. I prefer the wool yarn but both methods work.

I've not had an ILF bow, but as long as there is nothing loose I don't know why they wouldn't be as quiet as any other recurve.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I never could get my ILF rigs as quiet as lock down type limbs. Sold one of the best risers I ever had (Sky TDX 17) because I could not get it quiet. Part of the reason I really liked my Dorado.


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## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

BH closer to 8" should help but to be honest I do not find the Carbon Extremes to be a quiet limbs. Mine are not and quiet as a wood limb but still well within my tolerances for me to hunt with. I do have wool wraps on the end of my string near the loops.

B the way I find my bow gets noticeably louder when my release is bad.


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

Greg: Lot of good advice already mentioned. What about posting a short video with sound of you shooting your rig. Might help give the more experienced here an idea of what your hearing and can narrow down your problem. Could also look over your form and see if that might be the problem?

Last year I had developed a bad plucking habit that effected the sound of my ilf bow. I went through a few different silencers and a couple strings thinking it had to be something on the bow causing the sound. Took some advice given to me about setting up a second anchor point and after working on that for a while I have been able to quiet all of my ilf setups with a nice "thud" sound. Regardless if I shot BM glass, wood, or carbon. To this day I still pluck the occasional shot and can hear the difference. 

That said. I can't get any of my ilf setups I had in the past as quiet as my 1 piece longbow. Close, but a noticeable difference.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Just based on the feel of the bow, that's what my instincts were telling me. The way the limbs is designed seems to amplify the "tone" of the shot.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

GEREP said:


> Gregjlongbow said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I worked my way down from 8-1/2" down to 7, I took off all my silencers, and it's not any quieter. I tried two different spines arrows too. Must be something I'm missing. The limb butt isn't touching the riser. All of the moving equipment feels really solid. The high brace hieght took out the buzz after the shot, but the initial shot is still pretty loud. I just don't get it. I'm gonna shoot my longbow for a while.
> ...


I'll post one tonight when I get home. Would love for someone to point out something obvious I'm doing to help!


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Stub said:


> Greg: Lot of good advice already mentioned. What about posting a short video with sound of you shooting your rig. Might help give the more experienced here an idea of what your hearing and can narrow down your problem. Could also look over your form and see if that might be the problem?
> 
> Last year I had developed a bad plucking habit that effected the sound of my ilf bow. I went through a few different silencers and a couple strings thinking it had to be something on the bow causing the sound. Took some advice given to me about setting up a second anchor point and after working on that for a while I have been able to quiet all of my ilf setups with a nice "thud" sound. Regardless if I shot BM glass, wood, or carbon. To this day I still pluck the occasional shot and can hear the difference.
> 
> That said. I can't get any of my ilf setups I had in the past as quiet as my 1 piece longbow. Close, but a noticeable difference.


Yeah I'm with you bud! My release isn't perfect, but I'll see o can get a video with a decent clip of the sound.


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

I just got a brand new setup. VPA Vapor Riser and short 45lb Tradtech BM Carbon Extremes. Each of the following steps reduced the noise a bit and I now consider this bow hunting quiet, running only a 6-3/4" brace height drawing to 28". 

1. Removed spring and detent from ILF bushing.
2. Soft side velcro installed in the last 7" of each limb tip.
3. Fleece or wool silencers. 
4. Install Tradtech limb butt rubber or I'll install soft side velcro into the limb pocket area that extends out to and under the limb rocker. 

I also make sure that all the set screws are snugg'ed down. It's amazing how much noise a little 10/24 set screw will make if it's not snugged down.


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## Archer Mech (Sep 7, 2014)

Viper1 said:


> Greg -
> 
> Typical things that a shooter can do to make a bow noisy are:
> Plucking
> ...


These facts I find to be true and I fight myself on every one of them. I would probably be considered to be old by some on the forum and I have to fight the fact that some of my shooting faults are physical and make it harder to correct than if I was younger. Sometimes my release isn't as smooth as I'd like it to be and that causes the arrow to whack against the bow or cause a flyer. I definitely prefer a bow that is cut past center since I notice that my arrow hits the bow as described on my '63 Bear Tamerlane and I definitely hear it. It's a lot easier to build out to tune on bows that are cut past center.

What I've recently done is take the 34# limbs from my Wing Comp Slimline and installed them on my Wing Comp II handle. It's made a 66" bow that I guess is in the 37-38# range. I had a remark last week that it was a very quiet bow from one of the regular shooters in our league. I know it's not ILF, but it can be a tuning and performance issue.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

*Media of my loud bow.*



GEREP said:


> Would it be possible for you to post a close up picture of your rig (strung) like the one shown here:
> 
> View attachment 4518097
> 
> ...


Here are some photos.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Stub said:


> Greg: Lot of good advice already mentioned. What about posting a short video with sound of you shooting your rig. Might help give the more experienced here an idea of what your hearing and can narrow down your problem. Could also look over your form and see if that might be the problem?
> 
> Last year I had developed a bad plucking habit that effected the sound of my ilf bow. I went through a few different silencers and a couple strings thinking it had to be something on the bow causing the sound. Took some advice given to me about setting up a second anchor point and after working on that for a while I have been able to quiet all of my ilf setups with a nice "thud" sound. Regardless if I shot BM glass, wood, or carbon. To this day I still pluck the occasional shot and can hear the difference.
> 
> That said. I can't get any of my ilf setups I had in the past as quiet as my 1 piece longbow. Close, but a noticeable difference.


[video]https://www.facebook.com/gregory.jebaily/videos/vb.577971457/10154379119186458/?type=2&theater[/video] 8-1/8" BH
[video]https://www.facebook.com/gregory.jebaily/videos/vb.577971457/10154379118671458/?type=2&theater[/video] 7" BH


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

Gregjlongbow said:


> [video]https://www.facebook.com/gregory.jebaily/videos/vb.577971457/10154379119186458/?type=2&theater[/video] 8-1/8" BH
> [video]https://www.facebook.com/gregory.jebaily/videos/vb.577971457/10154379118671458/?type=2&theater[/video] 7" BH


Links not working for me. I get this message 

"The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may be broken or expired, or you may not have permission to view this page."


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Here are some photos.


Some of the earlier Morrison risers were known to be "snug" in the limb pocket area with some limbs. Any contact, even slight contact, can cause some pretty ugly noise as well as damage to the riser itself as well as the limbs.









If there is any contact whatsoever in the areas noted, I suspect this might be where your noise is coming from. If I were you, I would make absolutely certain that there is no contact in these areas.

KPC


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

That does look a bit scary snug. Did you ever get your Titan riser quiet with the limbs?


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Nah, I wasn't able to quiet it down. This one is a bit quieter, but I just feel like I could get it closer to a dull thump. I don't think it's making any contact, but I'll check.


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

Also, hows your tiller?


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## olddogrib (Apr 4, 2014)

After looking at the contact arrow in GEREP's first pic I'm also wondering if you've checked limb alignment. The Morrison is adjustable and the pic looks like that one is maxed out to one side. If the riser cut-outs are machined straight the pocket adjustment shouldn't need to be all the way to either side. A few bucks for a set of Beiter limb gauges was one of the smarter investments I've made and it's the first thing I check on a new bow, but I won't confess how many times I've gone the wrong way initially due to looking at the belly side and adjusting from the face side, lol!


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## TGbow (Jun 24, 2016)

Bill 2311 said:


> I get the strings made with padded loops.
> Daniel made a couple for me. I might still have one from when I was shooting the 15" Morrison. If not, here is his contact info: Daniel Binkley <[email protected]>


Daniel makes a great string at a great price. I have a padded loop bcyx he made me for my Sage. VERY QUIET. For me, recurves seem to be more critical to noise with low stretch material. Takes experimenting with different string materials sometimes, but the bcyx has been the best Ive usec so far. I have had recurves that I would only use b50 on but with todays variety of low stretch strings to choose from, I like bcyx best. I have always ran the higher end of the brace height for hunting. Ive never had a recurve I coukd get quie enough below 8" brace height...at my 28" draw lenght. If you're not plucking or tourqing the bow, I would try raising your BH.


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## stringstack (Jun 10, 2016)

What do you think your max distance will be when out hunting?

Again, the easiest way to quiet down a bow is by using heavy arrows. I snapped my last 400 grain arrow today and had to shoot some 575 grain aluminum arrows which are about 14GPP and they made my bow so quiet to the point where all you can hear is the arrow hitting the target.

I'd personally just go buy some cheap, stiff, and heavy aluminum arrows and weigh down the front with a heavy point and call it a day. 

If your bow is still loud using 500 grain arrows try 650 grains. I bet it would quiet your bow down significantly. Within 20 yards the trajectory difference between a lightweight arrow and even a very heavy arrow is going to be relatively small. 

Go with heavier arrows to quiet down your bow.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Stub said:


> That does look a bit scary snug. Did you ever get your Titan riser quiet with the limbs?


I really didn't, and this Morrison came along so quickly after I didn't try hard enough.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

GEREP said:


> Gregjlongbow said:
> 
> 
> > Here are some photos.
> ...


The pictures do look snug, but I don't think there is any actual contact. I'll use something thin to run around it. I think I should check the limb alignment though. Those pictures are at a very slight angle, but it's not unlikely that the limbs may not be perfectly inline. Honestly, I am starting to get used to the sound. It really isn't "loud" just noisier than other bows I've shot. I guess I am just a bit of a perfectionist. I've had other bows tuned so beautifully that they are whisper silent and fast and accurate. I always want all three. 

Thanks so much for putting in so much effort to help! This forum is the best! Archers are the coolest people!


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

GVDocHoliday said:


> Also, hows your tiller?


Actually I just evened it out, and I like it better. A little quieter, straighter and more smooth. Weird. I shoot split finger.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Gregjlongbow said:


> The pictures do look snug, but I don't think there is any actual contact. I'll use something thin to run around it!


The easiest way that I know of to determine if there is any contact is to put a piece of dental floss (yellow) under your limb as shown. With your bow strung, try to work the dental floss all the way around the limb butt between the limb butt and the limb pocket. . If it doesn't move *freely* all the way around, you will know where your contact points are.









KPC


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

GEREP said:


> The easiest way that I know of to determine if there is any contact is to put a piece of dental floss (yellow) under your limb as shown. With your bow strung, try to work the dental floss all the way around the limb butt between the limb butt and the limb pocket. . If it doesn't move *freely* all the way around, you will know where your contact points are.
> 
> View attachment 4527217
> 
> ...


Nice! Trying it right now.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Nice! Trying it right now.


Yeah there isn't any contact. The pictures I took were askew, and I think that's why it looks like the alignment is off, and the top side of the limb is making contact.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Gregjlongbow said:


> Yeah there isn't any contact. The pictures I took were askew, and I think that's why it looks like the alignment is off, and the top side of the limb is making contact.


Well, in terms of the noise, you got me then. As I said, some of the earlier Morrison risers had issues with fitment in that area. 

I've seen where the contact was so severe that it actually cracked the limb pocket wall.

Good luck, I hope you get it worked out.

KPC


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

GEREP said:


> Well, in terms of the noise, you got me then. As I said, some of the earlier Morrison risers had issues with fitment in that area.
> 
> I've seen where the contact was so severe that it actually cracked the limb pocket wall.
> 
> ...


I'll monitor it closely, and make sure it doesn't creep, and check it from every angle. The tiller actually made the biggest difference. Making it even, and then cranking both bolts one further step down, it is actually pretty quiet at 6-3/4" BH. Very fast too!


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Trying 1/8" negative tiller may help some too.


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> Trying 1/8" negative tiller may help some too.


Yeah, I've seen people on AT talk about using a negative tiller. I wonder why that works for some people shooting split as opposed to the conventional positive tiller.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Gregjlongbow said:


> I'll monitor it closely, and make sure it doesn't creep, and check it from every angle. The tiller actually made the biggest difference. Making it even, and then cranking both bolts one further step down, it is actually pretty quiet at 6-3/4" BH. Very fast too!


If it gets quieter with more preload then the BH was too low.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

What everybody else said.

My condensed list for getting a quiet bow...

Initial setup...

Install _tiny_ string silencers at 1/3 and 1/4 length positions based on the distance between lift points at brace position. These address actual string harmonics.

Put velcro squares/circles (soft fuzzy side) centered at string lift points. These address string slap on the limbs, though you can also wrap yarn on the string if you like, half a dozen versus 6...

Limb savers at the point on the limb between the lift points at brace and the riser that gives you the most physical movement after the shot. You can find this location by grabbing the limb between your thumb and forefinger as you pluck the string, and see where it dampens it the most. Depending on the limbs, this may be of varying benefit. Some limbs have a tendency to oscillate after the shot, and as such, can 'hum' at some low frequency. The dampeners on these high movement positions will turn a 'hum' into a quiet 'thud'.

Learn to shoot consistently enough to reliably tune the bow.

Tune the bow/arrow/you.

Further experiment with brace/preload/nock/center shot position, after shooting with the 'tuned' rig, to see if you find a relatively quiet, forgiving spot. They're all related, so make note of your starting spot, because you may screw everything up.

If your brace height and preload positions have changed, the lift points will too, so you might want to reposition your silencer positions as well as the velcro spots at the lift points. You may also want to try seeing how much silencer material you can trim off before you lose silencing benefit. Of course, once you find that position, you're past it, so you'll have to put on more silencing material 

Have fun, and don't stress too much, because it's unlikely that you're going to get a bow so quiet that it can't be heard (though some are freaky quiet, so perhaps it's possible), but also, the arrow (particularly a fast arrow with a broadhead installed) is going to make a fair amount of noise on the target's end...


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

BarneySlayer said:


> What everybody else said.
> 
> My condensed list for getting a quiet bow...
> 
> ...


Great advice! 

I got heavier arrows 550 grains with a brass insert. Brace hieght at 7" and 3/16 positive ended up being so icky the best. Oh and just a clean 196 fps. I'll take a bit of noise for that kind of speed with a hunting weight arrow. 

I hope this thread is helpful to others as well. 
Greg


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## Gregjlongbow (Jun 15, 2016)

grantmac said:


> Gregjlongbow said:
> 
> 
> > I'll monitor it closely, and make sure it doesn't creep, and check it from every angle. The tiller actually made the biggest difference. Making it even, and then cranking both bolts one further step down, it is actually pretty quiet at 6-3/4" BH. Very fast too!
> ...


It wasn't significant enough, and craning it down one turn kept the draw feeling more smooth than raising the BH an inch. Maybe it was only different in my head, but I liked the feel of it better.


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## olddogrib (Apr 4, 2014)

Not to hijack, but a related question. I'm of the camp that favors felt/moleskin just below the string contact area at brace on recurve limbs, as I've had several very well respected bowyers tell me not to put anything over the string groove area nor build up string diameter with yarn wrap in that area. Their argument, that on the radiused tip the action of the limb is "realing in" the string and there will be no "slap" to deal with until below that. My question is has anybody ever seen video evidence on how far below that area "slap" would be likely to occur (on typical supercurves). Not that felt weighs that much, but there's no use in adding excess weight that serves no purpose.


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

olddogrib - I also believe that area can be the source of a lot of recurve noise. I build my string mufflers so they extend about 1 1/2" below the contact point when braced.
Works very well when this is the source.


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