# Stone broadheads



## Turnipseed (Jul 14, 2014)

No I haven't taken a deer or any big game with a stone point but that's an impressive video. I had seen that last year when I was contemplating the idea of hunting with stone points. I didn't want to pursue my plan if I would not be able to make an ethical kill. 

I'm curious as to how heavy those stone points are and how heavy is the arrow with the point attached. The stone points I intend to use are right around 135 grains each but from things I have been reading, some consider such points to be too big and heavy to penetrate adequately. I'm hoping to learn a lot from this thread.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Turnipseed said:


> No I haven't taken a deer or any big game with a stone point but that's an impressive video. I had seen that last year when I was contemplating the idea of hunting with stone points. I didn't want to pursue my plan if I would not be able to make an ethical kill.
> 
> I'm curious as to how heavy those stone points are and how heavy is the arrow with the point attached. The stone points I intend to use are right around 135 grains each but from things I have been reading, some consider such points to be too big and heavy to penetrate adequately. I'm hoping to learn a lot from this thread.


I agree, very impressive. I got to thinking about the old indian arrowheads my grandmother used to collect and honestly I thought they were much less effective then the video shows. Was surprised to see how well they work when it comes to penetration. I wish he would have opened the animal up and showed the damage to the vitals.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Personally, no, but only because when I was shooting selfbows I was spending so much time building bows and arrows that never took the time to learn knapping.

There's a great video about primitive archery that I highly suggest if you're interested. Shows deer and small game taken with primitive equipment: http://www.3riversarchery.com/Full+Circle+with+Than+Beckum+DVD_i3089_baseitem.html

I can see why some states would be hesitant to just let anyone tie a rock on the end of a stick and call it an arrow; after all, knapping is a skill that takes time. However, if they legislate against stone based on effectiveness... they are terribly misinformed.

Also, I believe the bow that Billy was using was in the 40-50# range. It wasn't a particularly heavy bow, and the results speak for themselves.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Turnipseed said:


> No I haven't taken a deer or any big game with a stone point but that's an impressive video. I had seen that last year when I was contemplating the idea of hunting with stone points. I didn't want to pursue my plan if I would not be able to make an ethical kill.
> 
> I'm curious as to how heavy those stone points are and how heavy is the arrow with the point attached. The stone points I intend to use are right around 135 grains each but from things I have been reading, some consider such points to be too big and heavy to penetrate adequately. I'm hoping to learn a lot from this thread.


Most stone points seem to windup lighter than a glue on steel head, although I wouldn't think 135 gr to be that bulky? Do you have any photos?


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

I've done a fair amount of knapping and that's a harder road, to me, than making a bow. In dealing with experienced knappers, making an effective point for hunting is even more. If done right, yes, they can be effective, but if you were to try it, make sure and seek out some from a source that is known for good hunting points. Native Flakes or Gill's come to mind. Native Flakes even makes a screw-in point.


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## Longbow Lawyer (Apr 3, 2013)

A friend of mine took this 300+ lb boar in Idaho last spring with an Osage self bow and stone point.










The bow was 44 lbs, the shot was at 12 yards. 










You can see the damage done to the heart. The bear went 80 yards before dropping.









My native ancestors knew what they were doing when it came to putting food on the table. The arrows were custom made by Ted Fry from Raptor Archery. They all weighed within 8 grains of each other. 

LBL


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## coxral (May 10, 2011)

Haven't shot any for hunting, not allowed here, but have made a couple arrows for friends with them. I know a fella down in Florida who, I think, only uses Stone tips and is VERY successful!


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## Turnipseed (Jul 14, 2014)

Longbow Lawyer said:


> A friend of mine took this 300+ lb boar in Idaho last spring with an Osage self bow and stone point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


look at all the hair on that point.


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## Turnipseed (Jul 14, 2014)

kegan said:


> Most stone points seem to windup lighter than a glue on steel head, although I wouldn't think 135 gr to be that bulky? Do you have any photos?


Here are the points I have planned to use, although I have some doubts now. Plus, I was modifying the brown one and I knocked it onto the concrete floor and one of the corners broke off. I got these points from a flintnapper at the Indiana State Fair. I told him I wanted some arrowheads around 135 grains to hunt deer with. He did these without having a scale. they ended up 133 gr 137 gr and 145 gr. Pretty impressive IMO.


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

kegan said:


> Personally, no, but only because when I was shooting selfbows I was spending so much time building bows and arrows that never took the time to learn knapping.
> 
> There's a great video about primitive archery that I highly suggest if you're interested. Shows deer and small game taken with primitive equipment: http://www.3riversarchery.com/Full+Circle+with+Than+Beckum+DVD_i3089_baseitem.html
> 
> ...


As you know, knapped flint/chert or whatever will be more than sharp enough. Maybe sharper than a store bought steel broadhead. If the weight, shape or whatever is such that you don't have a tuned setup, things won't go well but there are plenty of people shooting poorly tuned store bought equipment.

The government should just stay out of things the don't understand and have no business concerning themselves with anyway.

that's how I look at it comrade.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I agree with you, MGF. Only logical law for limiting stupid is an IQ test before you have kids :wink:

Turnispeed, I don't know why you'd worry- those look more than effective. Just keep shots close and put the arrow in the soft spot- nothing more to it than that.


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## SageWoman (Sep 10, 2014)

> My native ancestors knew what they were doing when it came to putting food on the table. The arrows were custom made by Ted Fry from Raptor Archery. They all weighed within 8 grains of each other.


I was up at Raptor Archery a few months ago for a Rod Jenkins Clinic. Ted's store is a fantastic place - think "The World's Largest Archery Superstore" circa 1820. It's crammed to the roof with custom-made bows, wood arrows, shooting gear, and archery memorabilia. Ted showed me some of his hand-made points, using materials such as obsidian, glass (yes, from bottles), and flint. The quality was exceptional - I couldn't tell any difference between Ted's work and some of the finer Native American points that I've seen in museums.


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## Turnipseed (Jul 14, 2014)

Thanks for looking Kegan. If I remember right, Indiana allows flint/chert or obsidian stone points for deer hunting. I suppose that's what most people would use anyway. The reason I question using my heavy points is that I read on Ryan Gill's website that he recommends smaller points for greater penetration.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

I think it would be really neat to pick out a few really good condition heads from some of the thousands my family members have collected and have them retouched up by a pro and then take an animal with a head that a native american once shot at something, and possibly killed.


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## Sky-Dogg (Sep 15, 2013)

I knapp. Principle materials are flint, obsidian, chert, and glass. Vinson Miner taught me how to knapp during living history events and a couple of primitive bow building classes I took from him. A knapped knife blade, spear point, or arrowhead can easily be made as sharp as a scalpel. Native Americans knapped arrowheads and spear points for a good time even after the arrival of European colonists and fur traders. Reason was that the raw material was readily available, as was the time to knapp the implements. And the knapped arrowheads and spear points worked. Trade knives and knife blanks replaced knapped knife blades much sooner as they were extremely common trade items. Hardest thing for me is to put bind the arrowheads on primitive arrow shafts with sinew correctly. I've shot sage hens, javelina, and rabbits with primitive bows and arrows. Brian


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Turnipseed said:


> The reason I question using my heavy points is that I read on Ryan Gill's website that he recommends smaller points for greater penetration.


Ryan has shortened his draw to something like 22" after years of being really over bowed (which he stated openly in a recent article in PA). His bows now are around 55-60# at 22", which still isn't very much power, and he's looking to get as much in his favor as possible.

A bow fully drawn will deliver more than enough to put your points through the lungs of a deer


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

kegan said:


> Ryan has shortened his draw to something like 22" after years of being really over bowed (which he stated openly in a recent article in PA). His bows now are around 55-60# at 22", which still isn't very much power, and he's looking to get as much in his favor as possible.
> 
> A bow fully drawn will deliver more than enough to put your points through the lungs of a deer


Watched him shoot on youtube. He is a good shot but very obviously started off way overbowed and learned to short draw to compensate. He also releases before anchor which to me signifies that he's covering up target panic. But it seems to work for him so more power to him.


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

Just posted this pic on another thread, but the point on the bottom arrow is an original, found by my mother in law on the banks of the river near Kooskie Idaho in the 1940's.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Nokhead said:


> Just posted this pic on another thread, but the point on the bottom arrow is an original, found by my mother in law on the banks of the river near Kooskie Idaho in the 1940's.
> 
> View attachment 2141656


Dude that is friggin awesome.


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

Figured an original would be more happy on the end of an arrow, rather than in a box. No, I wouldn't try shooting it.

k.


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## Turnipseed (Jul 14, 2014)

Tradbow Guy said:


> I think it would be really neat to pick out a few really good condition heads from some of the thousands my family members have collected and have them retouched up by a pro and then take an animal with a head that a native american once shot at something, and possibly killed.


I think that would be cool too, and it would be even cooler if you would do that and tell us about it.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Turnipseed said:


> I think that would be cool too, and it would be even cooler if you would do that and tell us about it.


Its one of those things that may happen someday but I am not to the point yet where im comfortable sending a modern arrow out of a longbow at a deer, little lone a primative one lol.


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

I think the main problem with flint arrow heads are that stone heads are a bit fragile, compared to steel, so it's more of a matter of expense to mount enough of them, and shoot them, to be sure they fly well, and to gain the confidence with them.

Having said that, if the weight and shape are close enough, one should be able to shoot six or so of them enough to be confident with them, and keep another six or so to hunt with. ?? But having said that about that, I've never repeatedly shot stone heads into my hay bales, perhaps they will hold together longer than one would think. I've never broken one yet, but every time pull one I kind of expect it to be broken. ??

Anyhow, that's what is kind of holding me back, the expense and labor of mounting up a dozen of them, and then shooting them enough. 

k.


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

I've considered buyin a few of the screw ins from native flakes flintknapping. I love the idea of marrying old techniques with modern materials. A knapped head on a carbon shaft just tickles my fancy.


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## Sky-Dogg (Sep 15, 2013)

One of the downsides to knapped broadheads is that it takes around 60 minutes to make one using percussion and pressure flaking--if I don't make a mistake. Best way to recover from a mistake is to make the arrowhead proportionally smaller. It is not hard to damage a primitive self-nocked wooden or bamboo arrow with a knapped arrowhead. Any shot can damage the arrowhead, sinew binding, or split the arrow shaft. Kinda breaks my heart when I damage or lose a primitive arrow with a knapped arrowhead because of the time I have in it. Guess someday I need to work on putting together a shape, size, and weight matched one dozen set and see what I can do with them. Brian


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## Nokhead (Jun 10, 2012)

Those are nice.

k.


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## Turnipseed (Jul 14, 2014)

Sky-Dogg said:


> View attachment 2142319
> 
> 
> One of the downsides to knapped broadheads is that it takes around 60 minutes to make one using percussion and pressure flaking--if I don't make a mistake. Best way to recover from a mistake is to make the arrowhead proportionally smaller. It is not hard to damage a primitive self-nocked wooden or bamboo arrow with a knapped arrowhead. Any shot can damage the arrowhead, sinew binding, or split the arrow shaft. Kinda breaks my heart when I damage or lose a primitive arrow with a knapped arrowhead because of the time I have in it. Guess someday I need to work on putting together a shape, size, and weight matched one dozen set and see what I can do with them. Brian


I feel the same way about all my archery equipment. If you have an hour in each stone point I can just imagine what a bummer it would be if you were practicing and broke a couple of them. I have been looking for some $5 bargain bin stone points. Most of the shots I take on deer whether with my shotgun, muzzleloader, compound bow or (gasp, crossbow) are 15-20 yards or sometimes even less. I figure I'll practice a lot with steel field points, then steel broadheads, then practice stone points, then go hunting with my good stone points. Hopefully I'll achieve my end goal.


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