# If you could write ONE new rule.....



## Droptine (Feb 10, 2003)

I would just like to see some rules enforced. Like the time limit rule, asa does somewhat but still alot of guys taking way to long. The walking up on the next group rule is nevere inforced. In ibo I always stay behind the sign and if there isnt a sign I stay back from the group until they are done.


----------



## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

No binoculars for 3D! That would speed up everything, and take away the advantage some shooters have because they know how to use them to judge yardages. uch:


----------



## Droptine (Feb 10, 2003)

Just enforce the time limit rule. Ive seen guys let down 4-5 times. I think without binos people would start spending alot of time walking left and right trying go get a read on the target. The time limit in ibo will have to be enforced by the shooters the way the ranges are laid out. Even asa becuase the range officials cant watch every group.


----------



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Droptine said:


> Just enforce the time limit rule. Ive seen guys let down 4-5 times. I think without binos people would *start spending alot of time walking left and right trying go get a read *on the target. The time limit in ibo will have to be enforced by the shooters the way the ranges are laid out. Even asa becuase the range officials cant watch every group.



How about once the archer has stepped up to the stake contact with the stake cannot be broken until after the shot has been taken. This would mimic a more natural hunting condition of when the animal steps out and into the shooting lane you have to remain as still as possible to prevent spoking the animal....Just and idea.


----------



## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

If I could chang a rule in ASA, it would be to have less classes with half known yardage. I think with the addition of K45 and K50, it would make sense to maybe combine Open B and Open C into an unknown yardage class with 40yd max to prepare for Open A. But, I don't like known yardage so that's just the way I feel.


----------



## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Obvioulsy, my "rule change" for ASA/IBO would be to ELIMINATE/BAN the use of Umbrellas to BLOCK THE WIND for a shooter on the shooting stake. WIND BLOCKING by ANY means should be outlawed, at least in my honest opinion. You all KNEW that one would be coming from the "fieldman".

Just not part of my "archery philosophy" to allow "wind breaks" to the shooter on the stake/shooting line. Can't accept it; won't accept it. Wind is part of outdoor shooting..and a shooter should NOT receive "assistance" from another shooter to block the wind.

field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

yea didn't see that one coming field!!!!!!LOL


----------



## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

My one rule change would be for the permanent banning of anyone who complains about someone else doing something when whatever they are doing is not a violation of any rule. I do realize that by making this rule I would be banned because right now it is not a violation of any rule to complain about someone else doing something that is not a violation of any rule but it will be worth it just so we don't have to hear it anymore!


----------



## ramboarhunter (Jun 5, 2006)

Take the stools away from the shooters. If they want to sit while waiting on all the other groups let them sit on the ground.


----------



## 3dbowtechman (Jun 22, 2008)

I agree with the original post about advancement of hunter class shooters.People hanging in the entry level class too long.Known yardage class in IBO


----------



## keb73 (Oct 15, 2003)

field14 said:


> Obvioulsy, my "rule change" for ASA/IBO would be to ELIMINATE/BAN the use of Umbrellas to BLOCK THE WIND for a shooter on the shooting stake. WIND BLOCKING by ANY means should be outlawed, at least in my honest opinion. You all KNEW that one would be coming from the "fieldman".
> 
> Just not part of my "archery philosophy" to allow "wind breaks" to the shooter on the stake/shooting line. Can't accept it; won't accept it. Wind is part of outdoor shooting..and a shooter should NOT receive "assistance" from another shooter to block the wind.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


What about for sun and glare?..That's mostly what the umbrellas are used for in 3d..


----------



## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Do what field shooters have done for years and years, and what is "allowable" in the FITA and NAA...NOTHING larger than the size of a legal envelope to shade so that the shooter can SEE the target or his/her scope/aperture. Field shooters, for years used a baseball cap, or their shooting cap to shield either the scope, peep, or shooter's face so they could SEE THE TARGET....Works just fine...don't need a 4' diameter UMBIE to do that...and certainly don't NEED an umbie to block the wind for a shooter.
There is nothing you could say or do to get me to change my position on this item; it is ludicrous to be using 4' of "protection" when shooting outdoors. 

The next thing you know, someone will modify a portable ground blind to 3' wide, 5' deep, and 7-8' tall with three solid sides to it. Then, they'll erect THAT on the shooting line so as to protect themselves from all of the elements. I don't see it in the ASA/IBO rules to where THAT would be illegal, so it wouldn't surprise me to see someone trying it.
field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

I would like to see it where if you finish in the top 10 in any class at the Triple Crowns or Worlds in one tournament year, you are mandated to move to the next class the next year and I would like to see it where once you move up there is no moving back down.

To me there are way to many "sandbaggers" who finish consistantly in the top 10 within their classes, but fail to move up each year. I saw several Semi-Pro shooters last year in IBO who dropped down into the MBO class, I have a feeling it was not for the reason they gave for doing so.


----------



## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

I would like to see Field14 kicked off every 3D thread.


----------



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I would like the IBO to implement time, range and group assignments like the ASA to make the playing field level. Just for the triple crown events! Don't say it can't be done becuase it can! Maybe the IBO would have to change location to make it work and then share the wealth between more clubs!!!!


----------



## field14 (May 21, 2002)

damnyankee said:


> I would like to see Field14 kicked off every 3D thread.


I'd like to see damnyankee get some "class". Probably as likely to happen as what you suggest, haha.

Bait taken, and bait re-cast.


----------



## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

field14 said:


> The next thing you know, someone will modify a portable ground blind to 3' wide, 5' deep, and 7-8' tall with three solid sides to it. Then, they'll erect THAT on the shooting line so as to protect themselves from all of the elements. I don't see it in the ASA/IBO rules to where THAT would be illegal, so it wouldn't surprise me to see someone trying it.
> field14 (Tom D.)


That's an idea right there, pack along my pop up blind and set it up at every stake. Would make that 3D stool multi functional then. :wink::lol3:

I'd just like to see clubs and shoots enforce the 4 per group rule and the time limits. I would also like to see the ASA jump the speed limit up to 300 at least.


----------



## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Arrow diameter restriction. I think a smaller diameter arrow would help target wear. It's got out of hand and the limit now is to big. Targets technology has been passed up by faster bows, fatter arrows. Its hard go keep fresh targets and it eats up a lot of the little profit. Maybe speed limit also before we start seeing 375-400fps bows.


----------



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

bow-legged said:


> Arrow diameter restriction. I think a smaller diameter arrow would help target wear. It's got out of hand and the limit now is to big. Targets technology has been passed up by faster bows, fatter arrows. Its hard go keep fresh targets and it eats up a lot of the little profit. Maybe speed limit also before we start seeing 375-400fps bows.


I like the idea of decreaseing the size of the arrow...maybe a 22 series being the largest you could use in 3D.....


----------



## shakylx (Nov 21, 2008)

Not having to use screw in points in advance hunter class.


----------



## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

damnyankee said:


> I would like to see Field14 kicked off every 3D thread.


thats my vote too...dang good one

I can understand the concern regarding sandbaggers, but we also must consider the ecnomy....im moving down from pro to semi..because of $ Big difference in entry fees. and there is a chance that I could loose my teaching job because of more budget cuts. 
those are things I have no control off...I give this info, because I doubt IM the only one who's job is in jeopardy, or already lost it.


----------



## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

field the only sucker on here is you


----------



## shakylx (Nov 21, 2008)

I do not agree with the forced movement of classes as some have stated let people shoot what they want If you are not winning quit whining and practice more moving top shooters out of a class to give a someone else a chance to be at the top is rediculous to me when they have earned it. Plus their is also the money issue as some have stated. 

for the record I do not mind field14's input I dont know why others are really bashing him.


----------



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> thats my vote too...dang good one
> 
> I can understand the concern regarding sandbaggers, but we also must consider the ecnomy....im moving down from pro to semi..because of $ Big difference in entry fees. and there is a chance that I could loose my teaching job because of more budget cuts.
> those are things I have no control off...I give this info, because I doubt IM the only one who's job is in jeopardy, or already lost it.


Jerry I understand completely...I doubt you remember me but we shoot Bedford together my first year competing. (our grouphad the young boy walking with us you kept picking on :wink: ) I remember you talking about your teaching job and the pride you had being a teacher. Believe me when I say that if anyone ever considered taking that job away from you they're a complete idiot.


----------



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

shakylx said:


> I do not agree with the forced movement of classes as some have stated let people shoot what they want *If you are not winning quit whining and practice more moving top shooters out of a class to give a someone else a chance to be at the top is rediculous to me *when they have earned it. Plus their is also the money issue as some have stated.
> 
> for the record I do not mind field14's input I dont know why others are really bashing him.


Here lies the problem with that thinking....for our sport to continue we must create interest in our sport. A new shooter who's never competed before enters a beginner level class (hunter) competes, thinks hey this is fun how'd I do, then compares his score to the same guys who've been in the class for 15 years winning it over and over again. Suddenly he sees he has to shoot 30 up to have a chance to even place in the top 10. What's the point in him competeing? We need a true beginner level class where people can come in, try out the sport, develop the love for it then allow to be competitive with others of their skill level. Once they reach a competitive level you then move them up to an Ametuer level class where they are competiting against their peers.


----------



## shakylx (Nov 21, 2008)

the problem with that is I know people that have been shooting for years and are still not at a competitive level so you should just push them into another class. the people that want to shoot and understand competition will realize they need to do better to be at the top of the game. Plus say they start in hunter they get bumped to advance hunter that is bigger entry so it would cost more shoot farther and have some different competition, ok thats all understood well where do they go after that mbo not everyone wants to shoot long stabs and such and I realize that you dont have to its what is allowed but I believe they should get to stay where they want. I think right now with what the ibo is doing as far as the hunter class is fine but i do not agree with bumping people after that level.


----------



## hoyt316 (Mar 7, 2006)

That no new rules could be made to many know!


----------



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

shakylx said:


> the problem with that is I know people that have been shooting for years and are still not at a competitive level so you should just push them into another class. the people that want to shoot and understand competition will realize they need to do better to be at the top of the game. Plus say they start in hunter they get bumped to advance hunter that is bigger entry so it would cost more shoot farther and have some different competition, ok thats all understood well where do they go after that mbo not everyone wants to shoot long stabs and such and I realize that you dont have to its what is allowed but I believe they should get to stay where they want. I think right now with what the ibo is doing as far as the hunter class is fine but i do not agree with bumping people after that level.


We kinda agree but still disagree here....I'm only refering to hunter class, Advanced hunter is acutally the same cost if you don't shoot for money. The thing with competition is if you shoot the triple crown for more then one consectutive year you're no longer in it to "see what's it like" you've made the transition to becoming a 3D competitor. At this time then you need to move up to the ametuer level, Once at that level then you stay where you are. If the IBO wants to keep a win out policy then I'm fine with that...You win out you move up (this way only a few move per year) Once you reach MBO (which you can shoot with pins and short stabilizer if you choose) then that's where you stay. MBO is the "top tier" Ametuer level in my eyes. It's also the same cost to shoot as hunter or AHC or MBR, competitors have the option now to shoot for money or not.

What this does is takes those that are serious and allows them to move up appropriately (as they should in my eyes) and also allows those that aren't that skilled/have a lack of desire to improve(why are they still competiting nationally) stay in the lower level of ametuer class.

I personally shoot AHC...I started out 4 years ago shooting open in my very first year of triple crown (after a year of local shooting) I learned after a year that I wasn't no where near ready for that level of competition....did I drop down to hunter? no I went to AHC which is where I'm staying until I feel I'm better at judging yardages and am ready to move back up to MBO. I just can't understand why when someone has won out of hunter class they would take the next year off only to go back and win again the following year....what does that prove? Why not step back and test your skill? 

People use the argument that it's for fun, they aren't really that serious about it, they don't want to move back because they just use 3D as practice...well I say if you're competiting at a national level you're nolonger doing it "just for fun"


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

goofy2788 said:


> Here lies the problem with that thinking....for our sport to continue we must create interest in our sport. A new shooter who's never competed before enters a beginner level class (hunter) competes, thinks hey this is fun how'd I do, then compares his score to the same guys who've been in the class for 15 years winning it over and over again. Suddenly he sees he has to shoot 30 up to have a chance to even place in the top 10. What's the point in him competeing? We need a true beginner level class where people can come in, try out the sport, develop the love for it then allow to be competitive with others of their skill level. Once they reach a competitive level you then move them up to an Ametuer level class where they are competiting against their peers.


How the IBO is moving them out starting this year is fine. Why would you pay $70 bucks to shoot IBO World's to see if you'd like it? Even the National Triple Crowns? Most people would shoot some locals to see if they enjoy it. You go to the Nationals or World's for the best of the best in competion in each class. Most local shoots have HC as the beginner adult class and I'd hope the guys that are winning and finishing at the top aren't shooting HC at local monthly trophy shoots. All the regular local shoots I attend I use my AHC setup and shoot the Open or the long stakes. Makes you better at the "Big National & World" shoots. Just some thoughts they can't make everyone happy..LOL

Anyway...I'd like to see the time limit enforced let down as many time as you want but, You got 2:00 from the time the archer who shoots first arrow hits the target to get your shot off. When the target is clear of the group in front of you start the clock on the first shooter. Have a stop watch in each group and some range officials (IBO) make sure it is enforced. Time to shoot these courses would be cut in half. Indoors you have 2:30 to shoot 3 arrows in Vegas style LOL!


----------



## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

I'd like to see a "pre-register" and "assigned shooting times" at all IBO events...This would break up the "Buddy system" and help turn these events into true "Championships".
Not just glorified "local shoots". SNAP


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

ahcnc said:


> I'd like to see a "pre-register" and "assigned shooting times" at all IBO events...This would break up the "Buddy system" and help turn these events into true "Championships".
> Not just glorified "local shoots". SNAP


Agree


----------



## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

shakylx said:


> Not having to use screw in points in advance hunter class.


+++1


----------



## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

First off...Great topic Goofy, glad to see you did something creative at work today! LMAO!!!!


Change the name of Hunter Class to *Novice* and implement Pro Hunter for all the "Big Fish in the little pond" people. Pay your money, shoot for money and quit humiliating the beginners in our sport!


----------



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

ahcnc said:


> I'd like to see a "pre-register" and "assigned shooting times" at all IBO events...This would break up the "Buddy system" and help turn these events into true "Championships".
> Not just glorified "local shoots". SNAP


I could not have said it any better!!!!!


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

ahcnc said:


> I'd like to see a "pre-register" and "assigned shooting times" at all IBO events...This would break up the "Buddy system" and help turn these events into true "Championships".
> Not just glorified "local shoots". SNAP


 Yeh but I wouldn't get to shoot with you BUDDY!!!! You don't give me anything anyhow maybe this would be a great rule change and to my benefit!!!!!!!:darkbeer:


----------



## mdarton (Jan 11, 2008)

Hit the stake- you have 10 seconds to shoot. This gets rid of almost everything I dont like. Except for the bowling shirts.


----------



## outdoorsdad4 (Feb 23, 2010)

I would like to see the fixed pin rule in hunters class taken away to allow slider sites to be used. A good number of hunters hunt with slider sites, so if it were truly hunters class they should allow equipment that hunters use. The rule could state you must judge yardage and set the site before you making contact with the stake.


----------



## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

outdoorsdad4 said:


> I would like to see the fixed pin rule in hunters class taken away to allow slider sites to be used. A good number of hunters hunt with slider sites, so if it were truly hunters class they should allow equipment that hunters use. The rule could state you must judge yardage and set the site before you making contact with the stake.


That would be fair but then I would mandate a 7 gpi for hunter class !


----------



## outdoorsdad4 (Feb 23, 2010)

cenochs said:


> That would be fair but then I would mandate a 7 gpi for hunter class !


why 7gpi?


----------



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I doubt that arrow size will be restricted. The 22 series mentioned, sorry, the 2315 and 2413 shafts have been used and are still used and are truly good hunting shafts. I believe permitting someone to go down in class is the right thing to do. Most all organization have rules covering this and most have a two year waiting period before being allowed to and some have to be approved by committee. 

Any of the beginners classes should be limited to 2 years max, both national and state level. Exception, meeting move up requirements. Still, I can't see someone required to move up to semi-pro or pro. Okay, I'm past this, but if I was in the position to be forced to go semi-pro or pro I'd just quit. Of course you have to realize most move up requirements are based on the national circuit, not the state level.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

that i can take all shots at 10 yds and the others can only shoot from 30+ yds. ill be the next dave C.

j/k idk really.


----------



## 6rob4 (May 3, 2010)

every one spend as much time practicing instead of crying about rule changes that they think might help them win.


----------



## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

ahcnc said:


> I'd like to see a "pre-register" and "assigned shooting times" at all IBO events...This would break up the "Buddy system" and help turn these events into true "Championships".
> Not just glorified "local shoots". SNAP


thats a great suggestion!


----------



## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

6rob4 said:


> every one spend as much time practicing instead of crying about rule changes that they think might help them win.


LOL I like that, someone made a name to get sarcastic becasue they were afraid to use there real name. It is just peoples opinions some people will get upset yes but most of the posts were opnions. Everyone would like something to be better if we didnt what would we have to look forward to?


----------



## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

cenochs said:


> That would be fair but then I would mandate a 7 gpi for hunter class !


7gpi or more and shorter stabilizers (I do not see to many hunters with 12" stabs climbing a tree, and mandate they where long sleeve shirts, jeans and boots, oh and have scent blocker on.


----------



## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Hopperton said:


> 7gpi or more and shorter stabilizers (I do not see to many hunters with 12" stabs climbing a tree, and mandate they where long sleeve shirts, jeans and boots, oh and have scent blocker on.


Don't forget...the boots MUST be laced and TIED, too!


----------



## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

Hopperton said:


> 7gpi or more and shorter stabilizers (I do not see to many hunters with 12" stabs climbing a tree, and mandate they where long sleeve shirts, jeans and boots, oh and have scent blocker on.


AND....you must carry your arrows in your teeth! AND....you must have a three person film crew follow you through the woods (cause that's how all real hunters do it). :set1_STOOGE2:


----------



## field14 (May 21, 2002)

maineyotekiller said:


> AND....you must carry your arrows in your teeth! AND....you must have a three person film crew follow you through the woods (cause that's how all real hunters do it). :set1_STOOGE2:


YEah! And you have to turn your head and attempt to WHISPER loud enough so the sound crew picks up what you are saying, and then turn back around to draw on the quarry, too. Don't forget the fist pumping and excitement and "I'm so pumped up and thrilled." part of it, too.


----------



## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I think we are on track for a "REAL DEAL Hunter Class". Every shooter has to give an interview as they finish the course.


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

maineyotekiller said:


> First off...Great topic Goofy, glad to see you did something creative at work today! LMAO!!!!
> 
> 
> Change the name of Hunter Class to *Novice* and implement Pro Hunter for all the "Big Fish in the little pond" people. Pay your money, shoot for money and quit humiliating the beginners in our sport!


Isn't that what AHC is for???????????????????


----------



## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Isn't that what AHC is for???????????????????


If it was actually utilized by certain people it would be. I love shooting AHC it's a fun class and offers plenty of challenge


----------



## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

I love AHC, bunch of great guys, I'm gonna miss it.


----------



## FLDartonGuy (Jul 23, 2008)

I think thet should do something about the cutting, touching or pulling the line rule. I think that the arrow should comlpetely cut the line both on the inside and out. Some of the targets have pretty fat lines and can be cut by the arrow on the outside and the inside of the line still be intact. Just sayin.

P.S. An arrow girl at each target to retrieve the arrows.:shade:


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I think you should be required to say "I smoked that target" after each shot. lain:


----------



## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Isn't that what AHC is for???????????????????


Yea, but if that was working HC wouldn't have become monster that it is. If someone new to 3D archery shoots in the novice class (HC) and shoots 20 down or better, that is some good shooting! However, in the real world...his 280 something finishes in the lower 20% of the class because you needed to be at least 15 up to be competitive! Guess what new shooter is very probably not going to show up and stink it up again? "But, he should practice and get better!" Well, this archer is a hunter. He's probably killed more deer than the archers winning the "Hunter" class. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to become a better target archer because he is a very accomplished hunter. We just lost a bowhunter! Isn't that the reason for the class? To gain more shooters? Shouldn't your above average bowhunter who can shoot a 280 at least be able to be competitive in a novice class? Shouldn't some of these incredibly talented target archers have loftier goals that dominating the novice class and kicking sand in the faces of our future?

Just my opinion but, I've been known to have a lot of them! lol


----------



## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

Sagecreek post of the day brother "I smoked that target"


----------



## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

maineyotekiller said:


> Yea, but if that was working HC wouldn't have become monster that it is. If someone new to 3D archery shoots in the novice class (HC) and shoots 20 down or better, that is some good shooting! However, in the real world...his 280 something finishes in the lower 20% of the class because you needed to be at least 15 up to be competitive! Guess what new shooter is very probably not going to show up and stink it up again? "But, he should practice and get better!" Well, this archer is a hunter. He's probably killed more deer than the archers winning the "Hunter" class. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to become a better target archer because he is a very accomplished hunter. We just lost a bowhunter! Isn't that the reason for the class? To gain more shooters? Shouldn't your above average bowhunter who can shoot a 280 at least be able to be competitive in a novice class? Shouldn't some of these incredibly talented target archers have loftier goals that dominating the novice class and kicking sand in the faces of our future?
> 
> Just my opinion but, I've been known to have a lot of them! lol


Bingo,hit the nail on the head,out of the park!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't the hunter class now with the 2" vane rule the same as AHC (might be missing something) and the only difference is 5 yrds.
Are that many people scared of that 5 yrds? It's not like every target is 5 yrds further you only shoot a few that are 36 on up.
They really do need a novice class for the beginning shooter. I supose if you make them move up they may quit shooting the tournaments so is that a catch 22?


----------



## birddawg (Jul 23, 2009)

You should take out the twelve and fouteen rings in BH and Novice classes. In golf when Tiger came along and was hitting the ball so far he was winning every thing because the course was set up for really long ball hitters, They were taking alot of the great golfers out of the field because they were not as long off the tee. Now the courses have been shortened back up which has brought the field back into play and you see a greater variety of winners. They also increased the level of difficulty ie bunkers, deeper rough and so forth to put a premium on shot placement. So what if 300 was the max score? Count center X's if you will. Make footing more challenging, quater targets, and put a premium on shot placement and yardage judgeing. Even have a shoot off in place of a tie. That way you bring more of the field back into play and see different names at the top of the leader board


----------



## Skeeterbait (Feb 13, 2009)

Droptine said:


> Just enforce the time limit rule. Ive seen guys let down 4-5 times. I think without binos people would start spending alot of time walking left and right trying go get a read on the target. The time limit in ibo will have to be enforced by the shooters the way the ranges are laid out. Even asa becuase the range officials cant watch every group.


In IBO these are in place it's up the the group to enforce them (time limit you have to get a range offical) 

IV, 5, b. Archers should be sensitive to the time concerns of the groups behind them and make every attempt to shoot in a timely manner. An archer found to be over his or her allotted time by a range official will have five (5) points deducted from his or her score. If the actions of a whole group are contrary to this rule, each person in the group may have five (5) points deducted from his or her score.


Let Down Rule you don't need a RO, after a couple of ZERO's they will get the hint. 

IV, 5, d. In order to support the two minute time limitation, an archer at the shooting stake may not let down more than three times. Let down is defined as drawing to anchor, then letting down and not taking the shot. If an archer lets down more than three times, he or she shall receive a score of zero for that target. All shooting groups shall enforce this scoring, and failure to do so will be considered falsification of a score and subject the group to penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct
Repeated violation of an archer’s two (2)-minute time limit is considered to be unsportsmanlike conduct.


----------



## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

maineyotekiller said:


> Yea, but if that was working HC wouldn't have become monster that it is. If someone new to 3D archery shoots in the novice class (HC) and shoots 20 down or better, that is some good shooting! However, in the real world...his 280 something finishes in the lower 20% of the class because you needed to be at least 15 up to be competitive! Guess what new shooter is very probably not going to show up and stink it up again? "But, he should practice and get better!" Well, this archer is a hunter. He's probably killed more deer than the archers winning the "Hunter" class. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to become a better target archer because he is a very accomplished hunter. We just lost a bowhunter! Isn't that the reason for the class? To gain more shooters? Shouldn't your above average bowhunter who can shoot a 280 at least be able to be competitive in a novice class? Shouldn't some of these incredibly talented target archers have loftier goals that dominating the novice class and kicking sand in the faces of our future?
> 
> Just my opinion but, I've been known to have a lot of them! lol


Good post. Im hoping the new move out rule changes the way people think about HC.


----------



## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

I have always shot HC and did pretty well, last year I took off but this year I am coming back in AHC to hopefully shoot with a different level of competition and move to different rules. Just need to sharpen up my yardage.


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

maineyotekiller said:


> Yea, but if that was working HC wouldn't have become monster that it is. If someone new to 3D archery shoots in the novice class (HC) and shoots 20 down or better, that is some good shooting! However, in the real world...his 280 something finishes in the lower 20% of the class because you needed to be at least 15 up to be competitive! Guess what new shooter is very probably not going to show up and stink it up again? "But, he should practice and get better!" Well, this archer is a hunter. He's probably killed more deer than the archers winning the "Hunter" class. Maybe he doesn't feel the need to become a better target archer because he is a very accomplished hunter. We just lost a bowhunter! Isn't that the reason for the class? To gain more shooters? Shouldn't your above average bowhunter who can shoot a 280 at least be able to be competitive in a novice class? Shouldn't some of these incredibly talented target archers have loftier goals that dominating the novice class and kicking sand in the faces of our future?
> 
> Just my opinion but, I've been known to have a lot of them! lol


 At the IBO World's there is a seperate "trophy shoot" for people that don't want to, didn't qualify for, or feel there're up to the competion of the regular "world shoot". 

I will guarantee you most of the top archers are accomplished hunters in HC I'll bet 95% of all IBO participants are hunters so the loss of a bowhunter I'm not buyin'. 

This past year in Erie at the National Triple Crown shoot if you shot "even" in HC you were back in about 100th place. I shot this course with a fellow AHC competitor and shot with 2 others who were shooting HC (same couser different stakes, to save the confusion) All day these to other guys were consistantly 8 to 10 yards ahead of us shooting the HC stake. I had shot HC there the year before and I couldn't believe how close the shots were for that class. I was surprised it was only 33 up that won it to be honest. 

I understand where your coming from but I think for the most part people shooting at the National level shoots aren't doing it for the first time. They should expect if they are fairly new to the game it's National level competition they're going to be up against.

I do agree with the move out rule. The competitor in me makes me work harder to beat the best in any class. If I get it handed to me it's my fault for not getting my game ready for a "National level" event, not "the competion is to good" excuse, to me it's a cop out excuse. 
As long as your not a professional archer you can shoot any class you feel like because it's a hobby. Don't blame guys for perfecting their hobby and competing at a high level at a big event. 

The local shoots are where you gain your future 3D'ers if they enjoy it maybe they'll attend the bigger shoots but I'm sure they know going in what they face or they're kidding themselves.

I shot my first big event in 2008 HC at the IBO World's I shot HC and ended up 9th with a 394.
The next year 2009 I decided to do the NTC in HC and faired ok ending up 18th overall. I also attended IBO World's again and shot a 407 and ended up 9th again. 
This past year I decided to do the NTC in AHC and finished 13th overall making it into the peer group shoot at Nelsonville. At World's I finally got into the shoot off and ended up 3rd overall.
I enjoy shooting pins and a HC style rig I've shot 3D since it started 20 some years ago at local events to get ready for hunting and for fun. 3 years ago I had the time and money to try and shoot at the bigger events and it's been fun and I've put alot of time into judging yardage and my shooting form and it's paid off for me.
If you want something you have to work for it (Big Bucks, Turkey with a Bow, IBO Championship). I don't want it handed to me do you?

I don't think HC class is a monster it has over 200 shooters in it at the big events it's doing pretty good if you ask me. It has a move out rule that is better than the old one but it's all for a trophy anyway the reason it's labled a beginner class.

If you look back through the results do you see any guys that won the IBO World or NTC coming back into HC a few years later?

Sorry for all the wind, just not understanding all the frustration over it in a National level competition setting.


----------



## denden9 (Sep 19, 2004)

My rule would be make 3 bowhunter class . Bow hunter ,adv bowhunter and pro bowhunter. And a move up rule but not by money won by events won . Bowhunter move up to advance bowhunter after 1 win . Then after 2 win in advance move up to pro. Can't move back down a class until they have competed 1 year in a set class without a win. This would keep the better shooters out of the lower classes and give the weak shooters like me a fighting chance to win.


----------



## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

3D Pinwheeler very good post!


----------



## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

So then it's your belief that these guys never shoot a local event and shoot 30 up at almost all of them? Wonder where they get all of their practice in? If the HC class wasn't a "monster" and a little out of control, the IBO would not have bothered to make a "Move up" rule that (as I understand it and I could be wrong) only applies to the hunter class. Special rules for a special situation.


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

maineyotekiller said:


> So then it's your belief that these guys never shoot a local event and shoot 30 up at almost all of them? Wonder where they get all of their practice in? If the HC class wasn't a "monster" and a little out of control, the IBO would not have bothered to make a "Move up" rule that (as I understand it and I could be wrong) only applies to the hunter class. Special rules for a special situation.


Not sure where your getting they don't shoot locals? I believe they are on top of the class because they put more time into it than other people, this includes shooting locals. As many as possible. More targets you see the better at it you'll get. 

The IBO had a move up rule now it has more places involved. Look on the IBO website at the past results. I don't see guys coming back that have won the NTC or World's do you? Alot of the top finishers don't come back either (to shoot that class). Michael Breedlove finished strong in 2009 in The NTC and World's. After a second place finish at the 2009 World's wouldn't you want another shot at it?? So close he could taste it. Came back in 2010 and won everything and now he's done in that class period. Actually he has only shot in the IBO for 3 years if you do a search on their website, 2008-10.

There will always be up and comers going through that class, that's what it's for right? Garrett Ayersman 16 years old won the Semi Pro be glad he didn't make a stop at HC for a year or two..LOL


----------



## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

bigger chairs bigger umbrellas to block the wind and sun may be some drinks and snacks on the range.we are not hunting but at a archery comp.and let the bow novice guys shoot a apple off the guys head that complains.


----------

