# It's happening! Rangefinders are happening!



## Rino27 (Mar 3, 2006)

Now thats AWSOME!!!


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## Mag_Tek (Jul 25, 2006)

last year I started a thread on rangefinders in 3-D shoots. It was a close vote, but more archers voted yes to it than no.

It would help 3-D growth and bring more money into the clubs. The small club shoots are the roots of all archery organizations when going to national or world levels. A rangefinder division is a win win no-brainer for bringing in more shooters.

In the past four years I have shot around ten 3-D shoots. I like 3-D but don't like spending a lot of time guessing yardage. Like most bowhunters I have a rangefinder for that. Many new bowhunters that try 3-D get discouraged after their first shoot and never come back. Some of the others see they need a new $600 bow and $200 worth of arrows just to have a fair chance in 3-D. Many bowhunters find that shooting around 250fps arrow speed shoots better, quieter with less equipment breakdowns.

Over the past 40 years I have shot archery I have seen a lot happen in it. One thing that sticks out is without meeting the changing demands of archers the growth stops, then drops off. PAA is a prime example of this. NFAA didn't allow compound bows at first but seen the demand and fallowed it. FITA started compound divisions and grew.

Just my 3 cents worth


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## HOYT34 (Aug 6, 2006)

That really is AWESOME!!!!!


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## 3DZapper (Dec 30, 2002)

What's next? Orange spots?

How does an orginization police this? I could see an *occasional *marked yardage course where everybody gets a sheet or marked stakes and rangefinders are allowed for all shooters like the new ASA day two marked yardage course. Other than that possession of rangefinders should remain a disqualifier IMO.

That said, a good 3Der is better than the average rangefinder at yardage accuracy. The good ones get within a half a yard v the two yards (+or- one) accuracy of a rangefinder.

Rick


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## SwietsRick (Dec 23, 2005)

I use a Rangefinder only to check and see if I'm somewhat accurate. I guess the yardage then range it and am either pretty dead on or atleast wiyh in a couple yards. this keeps me in tune for hunting seasons...
I never turn in a score at a 3-D  I also always just shoot to stay in practice and have no real use for Non-Game throphies...:zip:


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## Camo (Jan 12, 2005)

It only stands to reason, you range different areas in your shooting lanes on a hunt so you are on the money, why not in 3D? I think rangefinders in 3D is a great idea!! Even at that you still gotta make the shot!:wink:


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*I agree!*



3DZapper said:


> What's next? Orange spots?
> 
> How does an orginization police this? I could see an *occasional *marked yardage course where everybody gets a sheet or marked stakes and rangefinders are allowed for all shooters like the new ASA day two marked yardage course. Other than that possession of rangefinders should remain a disqualifier IMO.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you say!

Here, we have a rangefinders division that goes out after everyone else is in the field.

After four years and four clubs providing a rangefinders class, no complaints and no problems as long as the club follows that format.

Here, also, the archers shooting un-marked yardages still outscore our rangefinder's division and they are now wondering, " What were we worried about anyway? "

They found out we are just archers who want to know the yardage, shoot 3Ds, and nothing more.:wink:


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## Okie1bow (Jul 26, 2006)

*Rangeing and 3D; Oh Man!*

I agree, you change to match growing demand or stagnate, but still I feel I'm going to be ill !!!


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## Jack NZ (Apr 7, 2006)

Wow,how cool.
Next year we'll be able to rock on down there with our rifles.
We'll still call it archery of course,,,,,,,,,,,,,I can hardly waitukey:


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## Ed Bock (Apr 1, 2006)

*Hey, I'm gonna start a division that takes tape measures --*

to the shoots. Yep, you measure off the distance yourself - much more accurate than a rangefinder - yep!!!!


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## HOYT34 (Aug 6, 2006)

This should be set up as a "hunter" class division......"honestly" you guy's can't tell me that you don't use a range finder when hunting. This class goes out after all other shooters, like was said in a previous post. I really don't see the problem with this.


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Hunter's Division*



HOYT34 said:


> This should be set up as a "hunter" class division......"honestly" you guy's can't tell me that you don't use a range finder when hunting. This class goes out after all other shooters, like was said in a previous post. I really don't see the problem with this.


The last 3D shoot I went to in Pagosa Springs Colorado sponsered by the Pagosa Springs Bow Club, they had a division just like you described. 

It was called a competitive rangefinders class allowing only pins and the short stablizer and should have been re-named the hunter's class.

I shot in the non-competitive rangefinder's class allowing freestyle equipment and the club members told me they are considering a competitive division for my class next year.

It's a good idea!:thumbs_up


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## HOYT34 (Aug 6, 2006)

I agree that it is a good idea. The only thing is though these shooters should probably not be joined with the other classes. I can see problems there.


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*I agree!*



HOYT34 said:


> I agree that it is a good idea. The only thing is though these shooters should probably not be joined with the other classes. I can see problems there.


Yes!

That would be a problem and defeat the purpose of the rangefinder's class.

The organizers should schedule the rangefinder's class to go to the field last and here in the Four Corner's area organizers are doing just that, which is why the rangefinder's class is working for us here.:wink:


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## elkhunter130 (Nov 26, 2005)

3DZapper said:


> What's next? Orange spots?
> 
> How does an orginization police this? I could see an *occasional *marked yardage course where everybody gets a sheet or marked stakes and rangefinders are allowed for all shooters like the new ASA day two marked yardage course. Other than that possession of rangefinders should remain a disqualifier IMO.
> 
> ...


We already have orange spots showing up on the west coast per NFAA. It makes for a different shoot.


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## wolfman_73 (Mar 7, 2005)

Whats all the fuss about?? I thought we were talking about ARCHERY here. If you dont like the format, find another shoot. I don't care what it is. I have a rangefinder. I can and will shoot spots, field, 3D, lawn darts, whatever. I just love to shoot. 

Why can't we all just get along?


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## 3DZapper (Dec 30, 2002)

"We already have orange spots showing up on the west coast per NFAA. It makes for a different shoot. "

:rip: ukey: :mg:   :zip:


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Orange spots!*



3DZapper said:


> "We already have orange spots showing up on the west coast per NFAA. It makes for a different shoot. "
> 
> :rip: ukey: :mg:   :zip:


You know,

I have shot dots and spots all of my Field archery carrer and I loved the change by shooting the spotless animal round, but

then there was the NFAA vote to put spots on the animal targets and there went my spotless animals, so now I am shooting 3Ds because they have no spots and I am loving it.

I just don't think I would ever like the orange spots on the 3Ds and I hope no one ever votes on putting spots on 3Ds here, but I would like to go to the Crooked Horn shoot in California, even with orange spots because they put on a great shoot from all accounts I've heard.

I loved spotless animals!!:wink:


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## 3DZapper (Dec 30, 2002)

The future of hunting? Marked, known distance.


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Not at All!*



3DZapper said:


> The future of hunting? Marked, known distance.



There will always be something new around the bend for archery, but anyone participating in any rangefinder's class will make that choice. 

There will always be archers and hunters who make the choice to hunt and shoot 3Ds by estimating the distances.

They like the challenge of estimating the distances because it is fun.

That will never change and is part of the hunting heritage.

A rangefinder class will never change that.:wink:


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## IBM (May 15, 2004)

I remember back in the late 60s early 70's, what release aids for competion? whats next compound bows? try new things and grow or sit there and idle.


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## Camo (Jan 12, 2005)

IBM said:


> I remember back in the late 60s early 70's, what release aids for competion? whats next compound bows? try new things and grow or sit there and idle.


:nod: You hit the nail on the head with that one!!!!!


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Good point!*



IBM said:


> I remember back in the late 60s early 70's, what release aids for competion? whats next compound bows? try new things and grow or sit there and idle.


You can always learn from past history.:wink:


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## CLB (Oct 2, 2004)

For me the range estimation is a big part of 3D. That is what makes 3D challenging. For me it wouldn't even be 3D without the range estimation. If people are so worried about missing and losing their arrows because they can't judge the yardage most clubs already have hunter classes where the yardages are shorter and even if you misjudge by a few yards you shouldn't miss. If you want to shoot the longer yards like the other classes practice your yardage judging more so you can move up. I have heard people say they are too intimidated to shoot a 3D shoot at unknow yardage because their scores will be too low and they will look bad to other archers with a higher score or finish in last place . To these people I say suck it up, if your ego is that fragile I don't know how you make it through life. I have also heard the complaint that it is not the best archer who wins but the one who can judge yardage the best. That is the game. If you want strictly the best archer to win shoot FITA. Sure I use a range finder for hunting but a 3D shoot is not hunting, It is a type of archery competition where the yardages are unknown. There are other types of competitons where yardages are known, like field and FITA, if you want to shoot known yardages. I don't think rules should be changed in sports just because some people are not as good as others at different aspects of the sport. I just don't understand why people feel they have to know the yardage to make 3D more fun. 

CLB


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Good Question you asked.*



CLB said:


> For me the range estimation is a big part of 3D. That is what makes 3D challenging. For me it wouldn't even be 3D without the range estimation. If people are so worried about missing and losing their arrows because they can't judge the yardage most clubs already have hunter classes where the yardages are shorter and even if you misjudge by a few yards you shouldn't miss. If you want to shoot the longer yards like the other classes practice your yardage judging more so you can move up. I have heard people say they are too intimidated to shoot a 3D shoot at unknow yardage because their scores will be too low and they will look bad to other archers with a higher score or finish in last place . To these people I say suck it up, if your ego is that fragile I don't know how you make it through life. I have also heard the complaint that it is not the best archer who wins but the one who can judge yardage the best. That is the game. If you want strictly the best archer to win shoot FITA. Sure I use a range finder for hunting but a 3D shoot is not hunting, It is a type of archery competition where the yardages are unknown. There are other types of competitons where yardages are known, like field and FITA, if you want to shoot known yardages. I don't think rules should be changed in sports just because some people are not as good as others at different aspects of the sport. I just don't understand why people feel they have to know the yardage to make 3D more fun.
> 
> CLB


Have you not considered there may be archers who are old now and their vision is just not good anymore and still want to shoot 3Ds, but they can not see well enough to judge yardages or for that matter can not see well enough to actually determine the kill zone on a 3D target?

Have you not considered there are archers who now have diabetes or other diseases which affect their sight and their eyes just won't work well enough to focus and judge yardages because of the disease, but they still want to shoot 3Ds?

Have you not considered there are archers who have just one eye to see with and for the life of them, they just simply can not judge yardages because they have no depth perception because two eyes work better than one, but still love shooting 3Ds?

If " yes " is your answer, then you must believe there is no place in 3Ds for anyone who has a visual handicap and should not be allowed to shoot 3Ds even if there is a Rangefinder's class available to allow fellow archers of this type to shoot and enjoy 3Ds.

You know, after all, we are just archers too who want to shoot 3Ds and are not able to see well enough to judge yardages anymore. 

We will pay the same fees as any one else.

We will not compete because we just want to shoot 3Ds.

We will shoot last so no yardages can be revealed to any other archers.

We will require no score cards or the posting of our scores.

We just want to shoot 3Ds with you guys and the Rangefinder's class is now the only way for some of us to do so.

In Pagosa Springs Colorado, the Pagosa Bow club just this year opened not one, but two rangefinder's classes for archers just like us.

One rangefinder's class was for competitive archers, ( pins and short stabilizer ), and a second rangefinder's class was the non-competitive archer, allowing scopes and long stabilzers.

It wasn't the biggest turnout, but there was a turnout of archers who enjoy the rangefinder's class and most who shot this class was because they hunted with a rangefinder, so " why not have a rangefinder's class ", they said.

Please re-think your opinion of us.

We're not the bad guys.

Respectfully.:wink:


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## CLB (Oct 2, 2004)

If you can not see well enough to make out a kill zone on a target at 30 yards or under I don't think a rangefinder is going to help you much. You still can't see where to aim when you know the distance. By all means come out have fun and shoot non-competitively if you want. Stand closer where you feel comfortable. I am not going to stop someone who wants to shoot from shooting. I have shot with quite a few people who were not comfortable judging distance for one reason or another. They shot non-competitively from where they felt comfortable. The number of people who are disabled and can't judge yardage is not sufficient enought to create a whole new class. I am not saying these people can't shoot but shoot non-competitively without a class from wherever they are comfortable ( this way you can shoot with whatever group you want as well). The number of disabled archers is not sufficient to create a separate class for rangefinders. There are enough classes as it is. Some shoots I go to now there are only two or three people in certain classes. Throw in more clasess and each pool just gets smaller. Every one does not need to win a medal. Most people who want a rangefinder class are not disabled in any way. They just want to use rangefinders to make it easier. As I said come out and shoot non-competitively and shoot from whatever stake or distance you feel comfortable at. If you are new to the sport shoot non-competitively from whatever stake you want and learn how to play the game the way it was meant to be played. As you become more proficient if you feel like joining in the competitive classes, great,if not continue to have fun. I still feel there is absolutley no need for a competitive rangefinder class. Knowing the range is not part of the the competitive aspect of 3D. 

CLB


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## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

Actually the Girl that Placed 2nd at the Cdn National Championships .... has lost most of the sight in one of her eyes ...and doesnt have very good depth perception .... She still did very well ...because she practices .... and she learned to shoot left handed to boot ... she was right handed ...

I personally agree with CLB on all parts ...of his stament .... Must be a Canadian thing ...When i started 3D I broke and lost alot of arrows ...ya it hurt .... I used cheaper arrows ...untill I got a little more proficient .... ya know what .... I still miss once in a while at 200 bucks a dozen ... I missed 2 targets at Nationals this last year .... both because I used the wrong pin .... I knew the yards .... just mental breakdown ...heat hydration whatever .....either way it was an ACC flower on both occations 

Rangefinders because someone get embarassed for coming in last ....good god ... someone has to lose .... next thing ya know .... only indoor controlled enviroment shots .... A target is totally differant 2 hours apart .... because of shadows ...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Instead of a rangefinder class just make it a marked yardage class.
There's no reason why every single person has to carry a rangefinder around with them.
Have cards/paper with the yardage writtten down.

For example 4 shooters are shooting the "marked" class. One list with the yardage is all that is needed for that group.


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Yep, just what the sport needs. A few more classes. What's next? A left eye dominant shooting a righthanded green bow lefthanded and pink fletching class? 

I mean what the heck, Let's just do it they do in the Special Olympics and just give everyone a trophy and make everybody a winner and be done with it.


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

*Here's my humble take......*

I shoot the same 42 1/4" Apex for hunting and 3-D....I shoot fingers, a short-stab, and a Spot-Hogg Hogg-It sight.....I've shot a 292 indoors with that set-up..... 

To be honest, I don't even remember what 3-D "class" that kind of set-up shoots in.....:embara: 

I have one pin in the very center of the ring that is dialed-in for 20 yards exactly.....I hold an inch or so low at 15, dead-on at 20, 2 inches high at 25 and 4-5 inches high at 30.....I don't take whitetail or hog shots past 30 yards, so this is a simple yet very accurate method of hunting for me....and it works well for 3-D out to about 35 yards.....

Sometimes, I think we make things more difficult than they need to be! :wink:


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## longcut36 (Nov 16, 2005)

lets go all the way. have a caddy to carry your bow, chair, umbrella, sun screen,drinks ,snacks and rangefinder. he will range the target,set your sight, pull the bow back,hand it to you. are you could get out and practice and find out it is a lot more fun when you make a good with out any help


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## Donhudd (Sep 21, 2002)

longcut36 said:


> lets go all the way. have a caddy to carry your bow, chair, umbrella, sun screen,drinks ,snacks and rangefinder. he will range the target,set your sight, pull the bow back,hand it to you. are you could get out and practice and find out it is a lot more fun when you make a good with out any help


all that is missing now is the caddy and the rangefinder. the rest of the items are currently in use.


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Marked Yardages?*



Kstigall said:


> Instead of a rangefinder class just make it a marked yardage class.
> There's no reason why every single person has to carry a rangefinder around with them.
> Have cards/paper with the yardage writtten down.
> 
> For example 4 shooters are shooting the "marked" class. One list with the yardage is all that is needed for that group.



I thought this was a great idea, ( marked yardages ), ten years ago, but no one would even consider it, I guess because it was just more work and no one wanted to do it, but when I suggested shooting with a rangefinder, that meant they wouldn't have to do any extra work, ( figuring the yardages ), and they bought it.:wink:


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Thanks!*



CLB said:


> If you can not see well enough to make out a kill zone on a target at 30 yards or under I don't think a rangefinder is going to help you much. You still can't see where to aim when you know the distance. By all means come out have fun and shoot non-competitively if you want. Stand closer where you feel comfortable. I am not going to stop someone who wants to shoot from shooting. I have shot with quite a few people who were not comfortable judging distance for one reason or another. They shot non-competitively from where they felt comfortable. The number of people who are disabled and can't judge yardage is not sufficient enought to create a whole new class. I am not saying these people can't shoot but shoot non-competitively without a class from wherever they are comfortable ( this way you can shoot with whatever group you want as well). The number of disabled archers is not sufficient to create a separate class for rangefinders. There are enough classes as it is. Some shoots I go to now there are only two or three people in certain classes. Throw in more clasess and each pool just gets smaller. Every one does not need to win a medal. Most people who want a rangefinder class are not disabled in any way. They just want to use rangefinders to make it easier. As I said come out and shoot non-competitively and shoot from whatever stake or distance you feel comfortable at. If you are new to the sport shoot non-competitively from whatever stake you want and learn how to play the game the way it was meant to be played. As you become more proficient if you feel like joining in the competitive classes, great,if not continue to have fun. I still feel there is absolutley no need for a competitive rangefinder class. Knowing the range is not part of the the competitive aspect of 3D.
> 
> CLB


Hey,
I really appreciate your imput and point of view.

It was a great discussion!

If you are ever in the USA and the Four Corners area, let me know and we will shoot some 3Ds!:wink:


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Seriously!*



longcut36 said:


> lets go all the way. have a caddy to carry your bow, chair, umbrella, sun screen,drinks ,snacks and rangefinder. he will range the target,set your sight, pull the bow back,hand it to you. are you could get out and practice and find out it is a lot more fun when you make a good with out any help


When I finally get this rangefinder's class up and flying nationwide, maybe not this year or the next, but I am going to start working on this caddy thing.

It sounds like a good thing!

Thanks!:wink:


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

*Thanks to everyone for your Opinions!*

We've had some serious discussions and some fun with this topic.

I really appreciate everyone taking part.

See you guys and girls on the 3D range!:wink:


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