# Six Senior Pro Archers got together to discuss......



## deadx

the ways we can grow the sport of archery. Do you agree with them? Here is the video of the interview by Jason Corley of BOWJUNKY conducted at the NFAA Indoor Nationals.

http://www.vimeo.com/62228115


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## deadx

This is an excerpt from the book "Professional Archery Tournaments 1940-1993" by Bob Rhode:

Archery has been smothered under terms and "hokus·pokus" that left the layman in a stupor. The names of rounds were meaningless: the scoring system a mystery; and the contestants' standing during a tournament was a secret. This will be corrected as much as possible so spectators get the same thrill out of watching an archery tournament that other sports offer.


Does this sound familiar?


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## field14

Have to realize that the old PAA, for years had a "point man" that was responsible for pounding the bricks for sponsorships and promotion of the PAA. They even had sport jackets that they all wore that had the PAA emblem on it. In addition, you had to have minimum qualifying scoring averages, both indoors and outdoors to "qualify" to be considered for membership into the PAA as well as signed recommendations from, I think, either 2 or 3 current PAA Professionals. I also believe there was training about ethics and public relations, and a minimum number of tournaments that had to be attended and a minimum scoring average maintained in order to keep your "PAA Card".
It wasn't the perfect system, but it lasted for quite some time. I don't know all the details about the demise of the old PAA; only know some of them, and I won't open that hornet's nest or discussion.


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## Pete53

just watched "lets talk" with the six senior pro`s, i do hope more people watch this video and help promote archery better than it has been .i did bring this up on archery talk and will now bring this up again .when the pro`s and maybe even the amateur`s are shooting above the bale put their names and state and or country they are from.also when listed on the computer and on the board put their full name ,state or country,brand bow,with what class and scores they have shot.this is a start in promotion for us amateurs to see and understand a little more.and yes film these big shoots and put them on archery talk ,bow junky why not.i can`t hardly believe it but no 2013 nationals on the computer at least ? alot of people wanted to watch the pro`s 2013 national shoot off !


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## Humdinger

I agree with what they are saying. I come from many other sports and upon arriving to my first State tounry i noticed there were no Uniforms, No names on shirts, and nothing to make the sport appealing to watch. My first thought was.."Wow.. this sport will never grow looking like this". I mean there were people shooting in Pajamas and house slippers!!! I ask some guy how is he allowed to wear that? He answered the rule is No Camo and No blue Jeans and thats it. Really!! I understand showing up to your local 3d in whatever you want, But State, National, and World should HAVE to have Strict dress code rules including Names on Shirts.

Seriously... This sport has the potential to be as big as golf. The first step is Image. All archers should have some kind of Jersey,shirt, ETc.. with their name on it. Also have some kind of SPorting pants, slacks, or something. With out this the Mega companies will never show up to support archery..Look at Nascar! Image is everything...


I believe that a PR person would do this sport great. Large companies like Chevrolet, Best Buy, Walmart, Etc.. and always looking to dump money into PR stuff and sponsor large events like Vegas as a tax right off. All you need is a Non-Prof Company, a great Image, and an event that is exciting to watch for spectators to a point where it can be televised. Get one of these Mega companies to sponsor the event and put up a Million Dollar purse. This is how Skateboarding got its big break in media with Eric Koston the first skater to make a Million dollars. CBS will pick it up after the poll they conducted on the Olympic's. Then it will take off from there..IMO. 

Quick story.. I was talking to an archer the other day who is a multi state and national champ. He was telling me he doesn't go to many shoots anymore because there was no point to it anymore. He stated that the money was dried up and there was no reason to drive 300-500 plus miles for a trophy. He stated if there was money to win or companies backing him it would be worth going again. Now im looking at him and thinking of all the times ive seen him shoot. I noticed he always wore flannel shirts,torn jeans,and was always Drinking before and after each shoot. During awards he would always disappear and i always heard his name called but never knew who this man was or put two and two together that this was the same guy. If i didnt go up and introduce myself i would have never known who he was by his appearance. I could see the industry of archery in him as he spoke. This seems to be common here.. The sport will never grow in this fashion.

Sorry in advance for the ramble..


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## edgerat

I certainly don't think that in an economy where people are NOT going to shoots because they cannot afford gas, can you expect them to buy $100+ shirts and wear khakis. This is just my opinion but, you want to grow the sport of archery, you certainly aren't going to do it by fluffing it up with expensive clothing. Golf has tried and failed to increase numbers based solely on enforcing a dress code. You try and force blue collar people, because that is who 90% of archers currently are, into a dress code and they will stop showing up. I agree, there needs to be a modicum of decorum and people do need to wear nicer jeans and "tops" that don't have holes in them. "We" need to respect the sport and the history of this game, I absolutely agree with that. I also agree that to grow the sport, there needs to be money on the line. For better or worse, people like to gamble and they will show up and throw down their money to play the game. Archery companies are withdrawing money from the smaller shoots because they are trying to survive themselves. I imagine what can be done to grow the sport is being done already, with JOAD programs and all of the swell from "Hunger Games", "Brave", LOTR and other movies. This sport is not cheap, even a barebow Focus recurve setup with a dozen arrows is several hundred dollars. That is a hard pill to swallow for parents and even adults who are wanting to begin in the sport, and may not like it. To compete, you will spend at least a thousand dollars in any of the disciplines. I think the sport is growing, one person at a time, one friend sharing the sport at a time. Archery is always going to have a hard time being as mainstream as Golf, Baseball, skating, or whatever else you want to choose, because it is linked directly with hunting. Like it or not, hunting has a stigma in this country. You really can't separate hunting from archery. You don't have to do that with Golf, you don't have to do that with other sports. You take the good with the bad, you can't separate it so, you have to figure out how to embrace that aspect of the sport and figure out a way to make all of it palatable to a larger audience. Steven Rinella is probably one of the few people that have the unique ability to bridge that gap between hunting and the mainstream. He doesn't cram it down your throat or, curse at you on national TV like Ted Nugent, he simply lets his enthusiasm do the talking. He believes in what he is talking about and he isn't afraid to pull punches. I don't know that competitive archery has a character like that. By nature, the shooting sports are typically dominated by people that are very introverted, deep thinkers that know how to get the job done. Nearly all of them aren't the most at ease in large social situations. I don't have an "quick" answer to how to grow this sport, I don't think anyone does, because it hasn't happened yet. 
Isaac


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## Nekekal

Very interesting video. There are a few obvious things. The first is that the people being asked are old guys. My age or so. Trust me, young people are not especially interested in the old guy solution. Someone needs to ask younger archers, and not really young professional archers what would be interesting to them.

A few thoughts that I had while watching. 

A place to shoot. There are public golf courses, tennis courts, rifle ranges, skateboard parks, basketball courts, baseball parks, etc. There are no public archery ranges. Of any kind that I know of. At least where I live.

Archery is not very welcoming. Almost everyone thinks that you, as a new person, are doing it wrong. They don't like your aiming technique, your equipment choices, your goals. The average archery store wants you to kill things. If you are not practicing to hunt, you seem to be wasting their time. In fact almost everyone that I talk to thinks I need to be killing something or else I am not worth their time. Hunting by any means is getting smaller every year and archery is a tiny portion of hunting. The sport should be able to stand alone without being associated with hunting. Shooting sports have made that transition. Clay pigeons for example. The target archers are not welcoming to the less than competitive shooter. With golf, a person can find someone to play with even if you have no intention of being in tournaments. Archery seems to have no place for those people who just want to enjoy their level, or maybe improve a bit, of skill.

Archery needs to really work on making it understandable to novices. This talk of butts, ends, rounds, etc is worse than almost anything. Curling has ends and how popular is that. The scoring system, seems to be something left over from ice skating or something. How can anyone get excited about doing the sport, let along watching it, if you don't know how it is scored, how it is played, who is ahead, etc. If you watch a rifle match, you know how it is scored. It is still boring but at least not a mystery. 

Someone needs to simplify the equipment. It seems simple enough. bow, string, arrows. But then it gets wildly complicated. String length and type, bow length. Brace height, etc. And then you get to arrows. Cannot the industry settle on a standard. Every manufacturer seems to want to list their arrow type differently. I understand that the spine (another of those weird terms) is different, but why not just list the spine number in the arrow number so the novice has some way to compare them. And then someone needs to list some spine numbers for various bow weights. If this cannot be simplified, lots of people are going to go away shaking their heads. If a person wants to go skiing, it is much simpler. There are a lot of simple sports, and while I know that a lot of people in archery like the complexity and feel that the rest of us should just suck it up and learn, the truth is that a lot of people would like to do something less technical.

I think the current interest in archery due to the movies is because of the supposed simplicity of it as shown on the screen. There appears to me, being a novice, no reason for all of the buried technical detail. If I am not going to hunt, only want to shoot targets at 30 meters or so, with a fairly low weight bow, just sell me some arrows that will work, a low cost simple bow, some targets, and invite me to the range where there are other people doing the same thing that don't make me feel bad about not hunting, not wanting to hunt, and not wanting a lot of additional equipment. 

The bad part is that I am an old guy too, so I don't know how much weight my comments should have either.


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## deadx

Nekekal said:


> Very interesting video. There are a few obvious things. The first is that the people being asked are old guys. My age or so. Trust me, young people are not especially interested in the old guy solution. Someone needs to ask younger archers, and not really young professional archers what would be interesting to them.
> 
> A few thoughts that I had while watching.
> 
> A place to shoot. There are public golf courses, tennis courts, rifle ranges, skateboard parks, basketball courts, baseball parks, etc. There are no public archery ranges. Of any kind that I know of. At least where I live.
> 
> Archery is not very welcoming. Almost everyone thinks that you, as a new person, are doing it wrong. They don't like your aiming technique, your equipment choices, your goals. The average archery store wants you to kill things. If you are not practicing to hunt, you seem to be wasting their time. In fact almost everyone that I talk to thinks I need to be killing something or else I am not worth their time. Hunting by any means is getting smaller every year and archery is a tiny portion of hunting. The sport should be able to stand alone without being associated with hunting. Shooting sports have made that transition. Clay pigeons for example. The target archers are not welcoming to the less than competitive shooter. With golf, a person can find someone to play with even if you have no intention of being in tournaments. Archery seems to have no place for those people who just want to enjoy their level, or maybe improve a bit, of skill.
> 
> Archery needs to really work on making it understandable to novices. This talk of butts, ends, rounds, etc is worse than almost anything. Curling has ends and how popular is that. The scoring system, seems to be something left over from ice skating or something. How can anyone get excited about doing the sport, let along watching it, if you don't know how it is scored, how it is played, who is ahead, etc. If you watch a rifle match, you know how it is scored. It is still boring but at least not a mystery.
> 
> Someone needs to simplify the equipment. It seems simple enough. bow, string, arrows. But then it gets wildly complicated. String length and type, bow length. Brace height, etc. And then you get to arrows. Cannot the industry settle on a standard. Every manufacturer seems to want to list their arrow type differently. I understand that the spine (another of those weird terms) is different, but why not just list the spine number in the arrow number so the novice has some way to compare them. And then someone needs to list some spine numbers for various bow weights. If this cannot be simplified, lots of people are going to go away shaking their heads. If a person wants to go skiing, it is much simpler. There are a lot of simple sports, and while I know that a lot of people in archery like the complexity and feel that the rest of us should just suck it up and learn, the truth is that a lot of people would like to do something less technical.
> 
> I think the current interest in archery due to the movies is because of the supposed simplicity of it as shown on the screen. There appears to me, being a novice, no reason for all of the buried technical detail. If I am not going to hunt, only want to shoot targets at 30 meters or so, with a fairly low weight bow, just sell me some arrows that will work, a low cost simple bow, some targets, and invite me to the range where there are other people doing the same thing that don't make me feel bad about not hunting, not wanting to hunt, and not wanting a lot of additional equipment.
> 
> The bad part is that I am an old guy too, so I don't know how much weight my comments should have either.


I think this post is wrong on so many levels that I am not going to waste my time by responding to each point. I will say that I am beginning to notice a parrot-like reaction from some folks who only run down archery when they should be building it up. If archery is that bad to some people then do us all a favor and leave the sport and take your negativism with you.


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## blueglide1

edgerat said:


> I certainly don't think that in an economy where people are NOT going to shoots because they cannot afford gas, can you expect them to buy $100+ shirts and wear khakis. This is just my opinion but, you want to grow the sport of archery, you certainly aren't going to do it by fluffing it up with expensive clothing. Golf has tried and failed to increase numbers based solely on enforcing a dress code. You try and force blue collar people, because that is who 90% of archers currently are, into a dress code and they will stop showing up. I agree, there needs to be a modicum of decorum and people do need to wear nicer jeans and "tops" that don't have holes in them. "We" need to respect the sport and the history of this game, I absolutely agree with that. I also agree that to grow the sport, there needs to be money on the line. For better or worse, people like to gamble and they will show up and throw down their money to play the game. Archery companies are withdrawing money from the smaller shoots because they are trying to survive themselves. I imagine what can be done to grow the sport is being done already, with JOAD programs and all of the swell from "Hunger Games", "Brave", LOTR and other movies. This sport is not cheap, even a barebow Focus recurve setup with a dozen arrows is several hundred dollars. That is a hard pill to swallow for parents and even adults who are wanting to begin in the sport, and may not like it. To compete, you will spend at least a thousand dollars in any of the disciplines. I think the sport is growing, one person at a time, one friend sharing the sport at a time. Archery is always going to have a hard time being as mainstream as Golf, Baseball, skating, or whatever else you want to choose, because it is linked directly with hunting. Like it or not, hunting has a stigma in this country. You really can't separate hunting from archery. You don't have to do that with Golf, you don't have to do that with other sports. You take the good with the bad, you can't separate it so, you have to figure out how to embrace that aspect of the sport and figure out a way to make all of it palatable to a larger audience. Steven Rinella is probably one of the few people that have the unique ability to bridge that gap between hunting and the mainstream. He doesn't cram it down your throat or, curse at you on national TV like Ted Nugent, he simply lets his enthusiasm do the talking. He believes in what he is talking about and he isn't afraid to pull punches. I don't know that competitive archery has a character like that. By nature, the shooting sports are typically dominated by people that are very introverted, deep thinkers that know how to get the job done. Nearly all of them aren't the most at ease in large social situations. I don't have an "quick" answer to how to grow this sport, I don't think anyone does, because it hasn't happened yet.
> Isaac


100.00 pants? I get my pants at Wal-Mart for 25.00. Docker like slacks and cargo pants.If I could buy pants and shirts for 100.00 I wouldnt need to get any kind of monetary winnings.


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## blueglide1

Nekekal said:


> Very interesting video. There are a few obvious things. The first is that the people being asked are old guys. My age or so. Trust me, young people are not especially interested in the old guy solution. Someone needs to ask younger archers, and not really young professional archers what would be interesting to them.
> 
> A few thoughts that I had while watching.
> 
> A place to shoot. There are public golf courses, tennis courts, rifle ranges, skateboard parks, basketball courts, baseball parks, etc. There are no public archery ranges. Of any kind that I know of. At least where I live.
> 
> Archery is not very welcoming. Almost everyone thinks that you, as a new person, are doing it wrong. They don't like your aiming technique, your equipment choices, your goals. The average archery store wants you to kill things. If you are not practicing to hunt, you seem to be wasting their time. In fact almost everyone that I talk to thinks I need to be killing something or else I am not worth their time. Hunting by any means is getting smaller every year and archery is a tiny portion of hunting. The sport should be able to stand alone without being associated with hunting. Shooting sports have made that transition. Clay pigeons for example. The target archers are not welcoming to the less than competitive shooter. With golf, a person can find someone to play with even if you have no intention of being in tournaments. Archery seems to have no place for those people who just want to enjoy their level, or maybe improve a bit, of skill.
> 
> Archery needs to really work on making it understandable to novices. This talk of butts, ends, rounds, etc is worse than almost anything. Curling has ends and how popular is that. The scoring system, seems to be something left over from ice skating or something. How can anyone get excited about doing the sport, let along watching it, if you don't know how it is scored, how it is played, who is ahead, etc. If you watch a rifle match, you know how it is scored. It is still boring but at least not a mystery.
> 
> Someone needs to simplify the equipment. It seems simple enough. bow, string, arrows. But then it gets wildly complicated. String length and type, bow length. Brace height, etc. And then you get to arrows. Cannot the industry settle on a standard. Every manufacturer seems to want to list their arrow type differently. I understand that the spine (another of those weird terms) is different, but why not just list the spine number in the arrow number so the novice has some way to compare them. And then someone needs to list some spine numbers for various bow weights. If this cannot be simplified, lots of people are going to go away shaking their heads. If a person wants to go skiing, it is much simpler. There are a lot of simple sports, and while I know that a lot of people in archery like the complexity and feel that the rest of us should just suck it up and learn, the truth is that a lot of people would like to do something less technical.
> 
> I think the current interest in archery due to the movies is because of the supposed simplicity of it as shown on the screen. There appears to me, being a novice, no reason for all of the buried technical detail. If I am not going to hunt, only want to shoot targets at 30 meters or so, with a fairly low weight bow, just sell me some arrows that will work, a low cost simple bow, some targets, and invite me to the range where there are other people doing the same thing that don't make me feel bad about not hunting, not wanting to hunt, and not wanting a lot of additional equipment.
> 
> The bad part is that I am an old guy too, so I don't know how much weight my comments should have either.


This is the first video that Bow Junky has done in a sit down format. Im sure that it will be done with the young guns of archery also. This was just our perspective on some of the topics.Why do you think that age has anything to do with whether our comments are valid in the scheme of things? Natural progression is a fact in life. Get on board for crying out loud.


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## field14

deadx said:


> I think this post is wrong on so many levels that I am not going to waste my time by responding to each point. I will say that I am beginning to notice a parrot-like reaction from some folks who only run down archery when they should be building it up. If archery is that bad to some people then do us all a favor and leave the sport and take your negativism with you.


Agreed. Seems like there are many on here that will run down, belittle, and bemoan target archery, especially the NFAA any chance that they get. Then when a "target archer" so much as says "boo" about the 3-D orgs...it is "bashing" and "you hate 3-D and always run it down or say bad things bout it."
Same people want the NFAA to change and do it like they do in 3-D and say that then people from 3-D will "flock over" and shoot NFAA events....WRONGO...it hasn't happened, and it won't happen either. The NFAA could mimic the other orgs down to the nit-noe with regard to awards, payouts, divisions, etc...and you know what? They still wouldn't come over to what they call "The Dark Side." There would be some other excuse....

The younger set simply doesn't care about the history, nor do they care about what it has taken over the years to get it where it is today. They want the handouts, they want the big money purses, but they won't lend a hand at all in getting out there and doing the WORK it takes to get those payouts going! They want the organization to do all the footwork and promotion for FREE and then all the younger set has to do is come and reap the benefits of everyone else's labours!

Sound like anything familiar? Such as the State of our country today? HMMMMMMM... GIMME, GIMME, GIMME....with the emphasis on the "ME"; you know, "ME", "MYSELF", and "I", and to blazes with anyone and everything else.

Blast away folks, but you well know that the freebies given these days and the empathy of the people has put us all on a path to never knowing again what or how things could be, and perhaps never will be again.
The expansion and better promotion of the PRO Division has got to come from WITHIN the Pro division and that means that the individuals themselves, and not just a few are going to have to get moving and get 'r DUN.

The Pro Organization is NOT in bad shape at all. It is growing; perhaps not in leaps and bounds, but growing just the same; but it sure could be in BETTER shape, but to get there....?? See above, and that is only the tip of the iceberg. The NFAA Pro Organization has a very energetic and progressive Pro Chairman, and IMHO, they should get behind this guy and offer up help, ideas, and solutions. There is more than ample experience out there to get this done, but you all have got to get onto the same page and work WITH your Pro Chairman and give him the voice and support needed for him to give the wake up calls to the right people.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Rolo

Kinda funny...those 'old' guys spent an awful lot of time talking about all the time they were dedicating to young people and people new to the sport. Yet...I guesss, some don't think the young people, or the new people want too, or will listen toi the 'old' guys...even though reality is quite different. I've seen the same in my parts...it's generally the 'old' guys who are actually going above and beyond to help the young and new...

What I also noticed, was not a lot, if any, talk about the 'old ways' and why they are great and should continue. What I saw was opinions of guys who have been there and done that, learned from experience, and made suggestions for how to change, either a lot, or minor tweaks, the game(s) for the benefit of the sport.

Yeah...listening to those 'old' guys is an incredibly bad idea, and all those young people who are unwilling to listen, got it right...in bazarro world. People unwilling to listen to experience, are simple fools...


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## blueglide1

Rolo said:


> Kinda funny...those 'old' guys spent an awful lot of time talking about all the time they were dedicating to young people and people new to the sport. Yet...I guesss, some don't think the young people, or the new people want too, or will listen toi the 'old' guys...even though reality is quite different. I've seen the same in my parts...it's generally the 'old' guys who are actually going above and beyond to help the young and new...
> 
> What I also noticed, was not a lot, if any, talk about the 'old ways' and why they are great and should continue. What I saw was opinions of guys who have been there and done that, learned from experience, and made suggestions for how to change, either a lot, or minor tweaks, the game(s) for the benefit of the sport.
> 
> Yeah...listening to those 'old' guys is an incredibly bad idea, and all those young people who are unwilling to listen, got it right...in bazarro world. People unwilling to listen to experience, are simple fools...


Thanks Rolo,and Tom D., at least someone gets it.


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## Nekekal

I knew that I should not have said anything, but at least I gave everyone someone to bash and tell me that I probably should not be in archery, so it was not a total waste. See comments on welcoming.

I didn't think that suggesting it would be good to have a public shooting range was "negative".

I also didn't mean for it to be negative to suggest that someone ask the flood of young people coming into archery what they wanted and were looking for in the sport. It probably is not what was already being done or else archery would already be huge.

I have watched a number of archery matches on video, and if archery expects to draw a large audience something needs to happen to make it understandable and interesting. One of the guys in the video made the same point. I didn't know I was going to be bashed for agreeing with him.

Furthermore, I didn't say anything about 3D. Targets are just targets. I was at a 3D shoot last year where one of the targets was some sort of dinasour. Just a target. But I do know that archery needs to be fun and serve a wider audience than it has in the past. 

Thank you for your consideration.


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## Rolo

Nekekal said:


> I knew that I should not have said anything, but at least I gave everyone someone to bash and tell me that I probably should not be in archery, so it was not a total waste. See comments on welcoming.
> 
> I didn't think that suggesting it would be good to have a public shooting range was "negative".
> 
> I also didn't mean for it to be negative to suggest that someone ask the flood of young people coming into archery what they wanted and were looking for in the sport. It probably is not what was already being done or else archery would already be huge.
> 
> I have watched a number of archery matches on video, and if archery expects to draw a large audience something needs to happen to make it understandable and interesting. One of the guys in the video made the same point. I didn't know I was going to be bashed for agreeing with him.
> 
> Furthermore, I didn't say anything about 3D. Targets are just targets. I was at a 3D shoot last year where one of the targets was some sort of dinasour. Just a target. But I do know that archery needs to be fun and serve a wider audience than it has in the past.
> 
> Thank you for your consideration.


Well...I think it started going south on you with your 1st paragraph, implying that the video was useless because it involved old guys, and no one wants to listen to them. Which is exactly opposite of what they relayed on the video, and what their, and other';s experience is.

Then, there was the statement about target archers not being welcoming of the new folks. Entirely opposite of what I have experienced on the norm. Are there some people like that sure, just like there are some people havoing bad days, just like there are some people that are there working on their game and want to focus on that, just like some peope get the wrong impression of others. :wink: 

No one's going to argue that more access is a bad thing, no one is going to argue that helping people understand is a bad thing, but what I discussd above, and a few other things, doesn't really go far to furthering the point of the discussion...


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## Rolo

blueglide1 said:


> Thanks Rolo,and Tom D., at least someone gets it.


:darkbeer:

Interesting thought on the video and attempting to get back on track.

The whole discussion of the ASA known 45/50 and rangefinders, almost makes it appear that the sport is coming full circle back to field archery. Sans the 'rubber' deer v. paper, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference in the 2 games. Yes, field has more arrows and longer and closer shots...but.

Just kinda wondering what your thoughts are on this relationship, and whether the 'advent' of marked yardage/RF 3-D may lead to increasd participation in field archery? Maybe I missed that in the video. It does seem that there is the oportunity for the re-growth of field springing out of marked/RF 3-D. Yes, there's a lot of other contingencies, but just a rambling thought on a Friday.


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## rharper

I love my shorts, shooting outside in the hot stinks in pants. I hate pants!!!! LOL Other then my affinity to pants, I believe much of what they said was true.

I like the comment about watching. Although I think setting up all those bails to be electronic with names and such, it would be a heavy investment with time and money.

I do have to disagree about the sport being expensive. You can buy a BMW or you can buy a Dodge Dart. Although this vid is talking about competition, it's also about making archery a hobby. You don't have to compete. 30 dollar bail (or a couple of hail bails for a few bucks), 50 on a set of arrows, 125 for a recurve. Basically, under 300 and you can be shooting in your backyard with no issues. The caveat is you need to go to a place (or call Lancaster or 3 rivers etc.) that knows recurve an can get you set up (Nekekal, sounds like you had a crappy experience with the shops you tried). Even a youth compound will still be under 300 to 400 all set up.

Sorry but american football is more confusing with scores then learning how to score in archery. Again, Nekekal, archery is plenty inviting, you just had a bad experience. I'd invite you to try my home shop. You would have not had any of the negative experiences you are saying you had.

I love this sport. It's one that my kids, myself, and my parents can all enjoy (and do together). We have targets set up at our houses and shoot for fun all the time, without worrying about scoring. The pro 3d shoots, the pro 2d shoots, etc, they aren't driving our sport. They help drive sales for the core group who would be shooting anyways. The one gent says he doesn't like watching the hunting shows. I think he's missing the point there. Hunting shows are there to sell a ..... mindset (maybe the wrong word). You are out in the woods, enjoying nature. If you are with family, the trips out with kids or buddies to have a relaxing and fun time. That's what I see. I don't even hunt and half the time I think it would be fun to sit out there in the middle of nowhere to watch nature, and then go shoot targets back at the cabin. (That's just me but hopefully you see my point) 

Whatever popular media is portraying as cool and fun will ignite the interest in the "general public". I used to work in a bike shop a long time ago when XGames were everywhere, on TV, on merchandise. We were selling bmx bike like no tomorrow. Then the sponsors left and the media left. Down went the sales. (which shows why for the big events, the big sponsors drive that end of the popularity spectrum). I don't think the PGA on tv is driving Joe and Jane to go play a relaxing game of golf on the weekends together. Two different kinds of customers. 

Archery will be the same way. We have a media that is pushing archery at the moment (fortunately, Hunger games has a couple more movies to go, maybe Brave 2). But eventually it will simmer back down to a core group of folks again who love this sport.


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## blueglide1

The field round is my favorite of all. It combines spots and various distances. I did 3-D when it first came out, and did it exclusively for two years. When guys started winning by the pencil,I then quit that part of it.This sit down was really geared to open up dialogue between archers, to get some ideas going, and start the conversations of improvement in the sport. Bow Junky is instrumental in open eyes to the short comings, and improvements that can be achieved.By asking the questions that get people thinking of ways to move forward with the sport.I was part of that group, and thanked Jason for getting it started.Shoot straight my friends, and dont settle for mediocre.Tell Bow Junky that they are doing a great job,and keep up the good work.
Don Ward


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## tmorelli

Rolo said:


> :darkbeer:
> 
> Interesting thought on the video and attempting to get back on track.
> 
> The whole discussion of the ASA known 45/50 and rangefinders, almost makes it appear that the sport is coming full circle back to field archery. Sans the 'rubber' deer v. paper, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference in the 2 games. Yes, field has more arrows and longer and closer shots...but.
> 
> Just kinda wondering what your thoughts are on this relationship, and whether the 'advent' of marked yardage/RF 3-D may lead to increasd participation in field archery? Maybe I missed that in the video. It does seem that there is the oportunity for the re-growth of field springing out of marked/RF 3-D. Yes, there's a lot of other contingencies, but just a rambling thought on a Friday.


I think the video was right on. I didn't really hear any comments that I can't agree with. That said, I'm not sure what the answer is and sometimes question whether it's nothing more than patience at this point. A lot of things are moving in the right direction for the sport and yes, some things are frustrating and need tuning or tweaking but when the right people are on the bus, time allows that. Please don't hear me say "we should just sit back and wait".... that's not my intent. 

I do think the field and marked 3d go hand in hand... and could feed off each other. I've made the point on many occasions that one of the beautiful things about marked 3d is that it really doesn't matter what the target is anymore. Take that thought as far as you want because that alone fixes so many issues. I believe (and I'm not alone) that known yardage 3d is the future of the sport....which should/could be good for field archery......maybe?

I love shooting field. I really wish I knew what the answer was to making attendance grow. Yes, I'm a proponent of letting amatuers shoot for money and think it would help. But, at current attendance numbers at any field shoot I have or can attend the pot would be non-existant due to lack of attendance. How do you get guys to play?

That patience thing.... I rarely have it. I don't want to wait around on NASP kids to grow up so I can have people to shoot with.


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## edgerat

This thread is a good indicator of the biggest issue, getting everyone to agree


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## deadx

edgerat said:


> This thread is a good indicator of the biggest issue, getting everyone to agree


Which is why I started the thread in the first place.....to see if y`all could agree with the guys in the video as to what needs to be done to grow our sport. Ideas are what we need, not negativism. I will never be interested in ......curling...... so I will not try to run it down....I just simply won`t participate. We are trying to get potential participants to commit to our sport and we are trying to make it so people WANT to participate.


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## Humdinger

I believe archery is on the verge on something great here. I believe every organization has great qualities to it and has the ability to carry the sport to the next level. There are just minor issues that need to be worked out to get over the hurdle. I will say that i strongly agree that every organization should have a PR/marketing agent/firm hired to help promote and grow each org. on a bigger scale. The one statement i didn't agree with is limiting ones self on being able to help based on not having a marketing degree. As stated above, its the passion in the promoter that sells the product not the degree hanging on his wall. All of us here have the ability to make it happen. All of you are passionate about this sport, if you weren't you wouldn't be wasting your time on this thread. I would say we all agree on that...So there's a start!

My other question is this.. Say we were able to get the sport to blow up. Do you think the Archery Industry as a whole can support the sales increase? As i see it now everything is on backorder trying to keep up with the "Hunger Games Crowd". Which makes me think we are growing as fast as the Industry can handle.

Last point.. For the pro divisions. I feel you guys should get together and work on pulling some larger sponsors outside of the industry. If you look over seas they have KIA, Large Hotels, Airlines, Etc.. Or the pros might want to look into hiring a personal PR agent to start looking into endorsements from larger companies like VISA, Nike, REEbok, Etc.. It only takes one pro to get this going. Start a charity in your name on behalf of Archery. All these things will help the industry as a whole IMO.

I know not all have a ton of money here...But some do! $100 might as well be a million to some. And for some $100 is like a dollar. Point is you have this in every sport. Some venues will require certain things to compete and it might not be for everyone due to many reasons, but there will always be a venue you can go and stay in your comfort zone. No need to cut down an idea on a thread about ideas. A boxer can't box in without gloves right? Boxers often come from homes with no money..,but yet they find away to buy there mandatory trunks, shoes, gloves, etc.. when they go to there first Big Fight. We can to... Im just saying.. You have to think these archers are paying big money for equipment, entry fees, etc.. What is the big deal to spend another $40 on a uniform? And for the people who can afford it whats another $100 for a Atomic Jersey, when you just dumped $2000-$3000 on your bow. I know what your going to say.."Where does it end?" It will end when you dont want to go any further and stay at a level your comfortable shooting at. The argument about Dress code issues is mind boggling to say the least. Im not stating EVERY archer has to wear one to practice or for non competitors. However if you compete on a MAIN stage you need one, it goes along with the Names above the bails. We need to let the spectator's get more involved which i feel is improving!

Sorry for another ramble..Its Friday! Let all go shoot and have a great weekend!!


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## Arcus

Nekekal said:


> Archery needs to really work on making it understandable to novices. This talk of butts, ends, rounds, etc is worse than almost anything.


If a novice is truly serious, a little effort can go a long way. This one took me about 30 seconds on Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_archery_terms


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## nogg

I Dont really have any answers myself as to how to promote archery.I do believe that the interest level is at an all time high,with many youngsters wanting to try it.Now the top bow companies have alot to gain by endorsing archery as a sport.I dont know their business and I know a marketing campaign is expensive.As was touched on in that video is that there is not a true contact or lead person,commitee or whatever to deal with on any one subject for pros.Maybe if there was such a beast there could be some cooperation between it and the top bow makers to market together for the sport?I dont know


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## Rolo

tmorelli said:


> I think the video was right on. *Yep.* I didn't really hear any comments that I can't agree with. *Agreed* That said, I'm not sure what the answer is and sometimes question whether it's nothing more than patience at this point. A lot of things are moving in the right direction for the sport and yes, some things are frustrating and need tuning or tweaking but when the right people are on the bus, time allows that. Please don't hear me say "we should just sit back and wait".... that's not my intent. *Double yep, agree.*
> 
> I do think the field and marked 3d go hand in hand... and could feed off each other. I've made the point on many occasions that one of the beautiful things about marked 3d is that it really doesn't matter what the target is anymore. Take that thought as far as you want because that alone fixes so many issues. I believe (and I'm not alone) that known yardage 3d is the future of the sport....which should/could be good for field archery......maybe? *I still enjoy unmarked, it's the added element of the game. But I also agree that marked is probably the future, for a lot of reasons.*
> 
> I love shooting field. I really wish I knew what the answer was to making attendance grow. Yes, I'm a proponent of letting amatuers shoot for money and think it would help. But, at current attendance numbers at any field shoot I have or can attend the pot would be non-existant due to lack of attendance. How do you get guys to play? *I got nutt'n on the answer either. Mixed feelings about money pay-outs for ams. Entirely subjective, but it ain't why I'm doing it. For me, I could care less. Generally, if there is money, and I manage to collect it, I donate it back, at least to the local clubs. Not saying others should be the same. And not opposed to the idea either.*
> 
> That patience thing.... I rarely have it. I don't want to wait around on NASP kids to grow up so I can have people to shoot with.


*True dat.* :darkbeer:


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## Pete53

those six gentleman did an excellent job answering questions ,i am an novice to indoor archery or should i say all target archery, i am more of a hunter but have always enjoyed archery. this is more to the negative comments made to these six senior pro`s .they never got paid to do this meeting that was video recorder, they answered guestions honest and with their wisdom we should all be thanking these senior pro`s .so from myself > thank you ! Pete53


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## blueglide1

Thanks Pete,its appreciated.


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## field14

Arcus said:


> If a novice is truly serious, a little effort can go a long way. This one took me about 30 seconds on Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_archery_terms


Don't interpret this wrong as a thread hijacking; that is not my intent. However, it is in response to the above quote from Argus, and offers yet a more fun way to learn some things you likely don't know about the game! To those of us that have been around for awhile, there are a lot of "fond memory joggers"; for those that are new, it might help you to understand what the old farts are talking about when they say, "Jar Licker", or "Green" or "Blueberry"....hahahaha.
Want to have some fun learning about the rounds of archery, archery "slang", and other terms and history? Check out "The Puzzled Archer".

I cannot post a link here, but, as DeadX can attest to, you won't regret checking out "the Puzzled Archer"; just google it, you'll find it.


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## rembrandt

This has been a great read for me and a very educational one at that. I have over the years shot a bow since I was 15 and it does get into your blood. There was a thread recently about why it isn't as popular as golf and that is a good question but one that is like comparing apples to oranges. Golf is a game that requires a tremendous devotion to conquer and I'm not sure you can ever conquer it but it is a game where the different parts of the swing is so imperative to performance. When you consider that 70 shooters are in the top 2% tells alot about the sport and that 2% ability draws alot of fans to golf. Archery is about a weapon that can kill and is used to kill and people are turned off by that. Compounds have become sooooo accurate that most anyone with a few months practice can shoot fairly well which is not the case with a set of golf clubs. Golf is called the gentlemans game and it is. Pros call penalties on themselves, can you see that in football or basketball? I don't think so. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is Archery is fun for the whole family and its no where as expensive as golf but on the whole people are admirers of the pros abilities whereas they look at archery as a form of killing innocent animals. Look at all the archery shows on TV and what do you see......a bunch of guys in a tree ambushing an animal, then laughing and high fiving over the kill. Thats not the best advertizing for our sport. Now, having said that, I do love shooting the NFAA target and I do about 4 times a week. I hope archery rises to a level that will enhance more folks to take it up but I don't think I'll live long enough to see it........


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## Pete53

the one thing hunter`s say alot when they have been hunting with a gun and with a bow is ,i killed a real nice buck for example. i really think we all need to clean up our act on what we say when dealing with the public for our own good. at age 60 and shot a bow since the age of 10 , plus have hunted gun - bow and arrow all my life .i now like to say i harvested a nice deer this year with my bow.people seem to really think alot more of me then .so guys please use the word harvest its for our own good,i bet these six senior pro`s would agree with me.i am not trying to upset anyone just trying to save and help hunting for the future.thanks,Pete53


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## blueglide1

Both of you ,Rembrandt and Pete ,are correct in that we have to clean up our acts.The normal guy out there hunting doesnt think beyond the kill as to what the rest of the world outside the hunting community thinks.Its all about the impressing the guys inside the hunting world.But not all are that way.Thats why Target archery is so big over seas, no freedom of hunting access, leads to targets.We are the opposite.So much of our archery is hunting orientated that targets are a small part of the big picture.I hope the target side will gain some momentum someday,with the 3-D guys shooting targets once in awhile. At least its a start.
Don Ward


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## Ditch Pickle

VERY well said don. If we could get some of these hunters to up there game by hiting a smaller target then a kill sone on a animal. we could see more target archers. shooting at a target the size of a dime is just as challenging as that big kill....


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## ArcherXXX300

Ditch Pickle said:


> VERY well said don. If we could get some of these hunters to up there game by hiting a smaller target then a kill sone on a animal. we could see more target archers. shooting at a target the size of a dime is just as challenging as that big kill....


Speaking of that I had a friend shooting dimes and pennys today at the range with his hunting and only bow. I hunt, and I can understand people being upset with that. I however enjoy target archery more than anything and am looking to go to college to participate in the industry in one way or another. I completely disagree with anyone saying target shooters or other archers are unhelpful or rude in any way to a new guy. I can honestly say that ever since I started shooting archery that everyone I met has been well mannered, polite, and EXTREMELY HELPFUL as am I. I can understand how terms are confusing to many people especially just starting out. I just got my target bow last week and have been setting it up. Today I got in my clarifier for my peep and my lens kit etc, and the bow tech at the shop where I shoot knows very little to nada about target archery, its all new to him but he'll be more prepared for the next guy thanks to me  I really believe that it is a great sport, it requires a tremendous amount of patience and skill and it is a sport that anyone (short of blind) can participate in. I made a statement today about the fact that they sell very little to 0 target archery things/bows/supplies, but remarked how expensive it is to setup a good compound target bow, and how I thought target archery is growing. They seem to think it isn't but that 3d archery is where it is at...however isn't that target archery too? I think it is, and when I look at top shooters they're shooting target scopes/bows/ or speed bows with target accessories on them. Unfortunately hunting doesn't sit well with some people. I really love hunting and am ready to hit the turkey woods, however I love killing that X-ring. I honestly have to say that the best people I've met have been archers and bow hunters, and I enjoy their company as well as helping any of the new guys do better even if all they're doing is hunting, they'll still shoot paper to "sight in"  Excellent video and points too.


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## Pete53

i hate to mention this again ,but wisdom has taught me not to use the word kill anymore,thats just not an acceptable word to use in the target world or hunting world, rather you use a gun or a bow .if you are a hunter which i am and will always be and i only select to harvest an older adult animal with one good shot ,telling people that i killed,smoked,knocked him off his feet ,laughing,high five`n,or anything else to upset people, really is hurting our enjoyable worlds of target shooting and hunting.our youth does not need to see or hear this bullcrap we need to make this a better world for them and maybe just maybe archery will benefit a little more.


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## Ditch Pickle

Sorry harvest sone..........


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## USNarcher

The fact is that when you hunt you do KILL. Political correctness has it's place and yes glorifying killing can be taken too far. Practicing and teaching good hunting ethics will go further than political correctness. Our sport of target archery was derived from hunting and there is nothing wrong with refering to a kill zone.

As for the video, it is good that the "old timers" are featured. They have a ton of knowledge to share and have seen the sport grow and advance. Too many times I see young kids laugh at the seasoned guys and say they are just rambling. But at one point they will realize that there is a wealth of knowledge to be tapped from them. It is just human nature for the young to mock the elders.


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## Pete53

when i hunt out west i hunt with two brothers both front line marine viet nam vets who were both wounded in viet nam one was with carlos hathcock too alot, these two marines wore out a few m16`s too, in the fifteen years hunting with them they never used the word kill so maybe that has rub off on me and maybe its out of respect for what these marines have delt with.but at age sixty wisdom has taught me maybe its time to use the word harvest also . Also children in a christian family do learn elder respect or else, thats the problem with the USA now no respect or morals in to many people.


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## field14

USNarcher said:


> The fact is that when you hunt you do KILL. Political correctness has it's place and yes glorifying killing can be taken too far. Practicing and teaching good hunting ethics will go further than political correctness. Our sport of target archery was derived from hunting and there is nothing wrong with refering to a kill zone.
> 
> As for the video, it is good that the "old timers" are featured. They have a ton of knowledge to share and have seen the sport grow and advance. Too many times I see young kids laugh at the seasoned guys and say they are just rambling. But at one point they will realize that there is a wealth of knowledge to be tapped from them. It is just human nature for the young to mock the elders.


It is quite something when many of the young guys pee and moan about the new age alignment (long overdue) for the NFAA that now makes age 50 a "senior" across the board in all venues of archery. The one comment I hear from these "younger bucks" is simple, and I take a bit of offense to it (but never tell them this). It goes like this: *"We don't NEED another division and 50 is too young for seniors anyways , you old boys just need to learn to....>SHOOT BETTER."*(these "you need to just learn to shoot better guys" _refuse_ to recognize that it (the age limit at 50 for seniors) has been that way in NAA/FITA for YEARS, and the IBO and ASA almost since their inception)

Little do these young bucks realize that they are well on their way to the tired eyes, the shakey muscles, the deterioration of flexibility and fine twitch muscle control, etc. Then, we OLDER ONES can push it right back on them and say to those we know that used the statement above, "Why don't YOU just learn to shoot BETTER? What gives with you? Only a few years ago you were telling the older guys to learn to shoot better. Whatsa madda, you no can do no more?"
Sweet revenge on 'em! They haven't quite yet learned that in fact, in really is a "witch with a "B" to get old! They'll get theirs!

Of course so many of the young guys seem to think all this "stuff" they've been coming out with isn't NEW....it has pretty much gone full circle; especially with the hinge releases. Only thing changed is the pivot point so that the hinge can be shot off of a d-loop; something which is very difficult to do with the Old Style Stan hinge releases without setting them right on the edge!
Arrow rests moving back farther towards the bow wrist? NOT NEW. 10 or whatever down sloping main stabilizers? NOT NEW. Improved? Probably, but NOT NEW. Lots of improved stuff out there, but much of it has come full circle from the 70's and 80's...


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## rogersaddler

Very well said field14. I'm just turning 50 in May and I know that i can't see or shoot as well as I did even five years ago. They will find out as they get older and we will have the last laugh


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## field14

Yep, they'll all be "there" before they even realize it...and then they will have to listen to that silly song and dance, "Just learn to shoot better", and we'll see how well they like to or even can dance to the beat of that drum. What goes around always comes around!! ROFLMAO.


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## ILOVE3D

Pete53 said:


> the one thing hunter`s say alot when they have been hunting with a gun and with a bow is ,i killed a real nice buck for example. i really think we all need to clean up our act on what we say when dealing with the public for our own good. at age 60 and shot a bow since the age of 10 , plus have hunted gun - bow and arrow all my life .i now like to say i harvested a nice deer this year with my bow.people seem to really think alot more of me then .so guys please use the word harvest its for our own good,i bet these six senior pro`s would agree with me.i am not trying to upset anyone just trying to save and help hunting for the future.thanks,Pete53


Harvest is what we do to crops after we plant, feed and water them. Perhaps some of the game farms where people grow deer you harvest them but the reality of it is on public land we kill the animals that we hunt. No need to apologize for that but the way many current hunting shows depict hunting is not helping our cause. We need to show respect for the animals we pursue and there are several ways we can do this. Phrases like "I smoked that guy, YEAH" is some of what turns off non hunters. Displaying our kill across the hood or in the open bed of a pickup truck is not helping our cause. I know guys are proud of their kills and want to show it off to their friends but there are many people out there that DON"T want to look at your bloody deer in the back of your pickup. Take tasteful photo's and try to cut out the blood and gore. We can either welcome people to our sport and show it off in a respectable way or scare them off by being a knuckle dragger out for blood. Not target archery but lots of hunters do move into the target venue.


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## Pete53

i guess when i own my own land put food plots in ,salt lick- mineral post areas, clear stand areas,let all the little bucks grow,select only a few deer to butcher and eat and yes these are wild deer free to go on and off my land ,but generally stay because of my 80 acre sanctionary.venison in my family is always part of our diet and i was raised on a farm still live there, will still continue to harvest and eat the animals i have shot and butchered.


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## ILOVE3D

Growing the sport of archery depends on family's and youth getting involved. I attend pretty much all types of events in my state and the biggest congregation of youth and wives I notice is at 3D shoots. I believe there ought to be two different types of courses, one for competitors where the shots are challenging. Then the other type of course would be set up where yardage is known or there aren't any stakes. Let each individual shoot where they feel comfortable to hit foam and not break or loose an arrow. When the inexperienced and non competitive shooter can complete a round and not miss any targets or very few. How many families can afford to first attend the shoot, pay fees then 2 or 3 of them end up breaking a half dozen arrows or more on two rounds. The family gets frustrated and stops attending, it's not fun for them to loose and break arrows. On regular courses competitive shooters get frustrated waiting for say a very large group of people out just to have fun looking for their arrows after a few in the group miss shooting from a stake that is really too far for them. I very much enjoy shooting a tough course competing but at the same time it's not fun for the recreational archer. I believe each shoot should have a course where everyone can have fun and those families will come back and help grow our sport


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## Pete53

those 3-D ideas sound great in my home state in Minnesota i have made suggestions similar to that.the msaa does have alot of flight classes but i would like to see new shooter`s allowed in some kind of a first year rookie class. maybe these six senior pro`s would have a better ideal on how to handle this ? i think all of us want to see archery grow more, i do think the bow and archery product industry people should get more involved ,some have but many more should,it could be a win win for them . i also think this year 2013 the national indoor finals should have been on the internet and if it was made easier to find. also as i have said in the past when names are posted from 1st place to last put down the state or country they are from,brand of bow they are using,maybe even the release and arrow type.i would think the manufacture`s would love it because what wins on sunday sells on monday !


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## ILOVE3D

What about asking families and new shooters what would make them want to come back for more? I know the old guys have forgot more than I'll probably ever know but lets somehow ask the newbies what would draw them back? Just a thought.


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## Pete53

another great ideal ! just need the power`s in charge to do something about it ,this all can be done and hopefully sooner than later ! but the biggest problem in archery is the same as what is wrong in this country > POLITICS AND GREEDY PEOPLE < !!


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## ILOVE3D

I think you hit the nail on the head with the "POLITICS AND GREED" statement. I do think the greed part is higher on the list though. Targets are expensive and clubs want to use them as many shoots as they possibly can. This is where it might be more cost effective to use targets with a replaceable core. I think the biggest problem is without some guidelines from either NFAA or IBO they don't know how to make it fun so families want to come back. They just use the standards say for cubs targets should be max 28 yards or whatever. I would think that means a large target at 28 yards. With no guidelines I have seen clubs set up say a coyote or maybe a bobcat and it is maybe 24 yards. I try and talk to them and all I get for a reply is the max is 28 yards(for cubs) or whatever and the target is closer than that. Unfortunately it seems like just a bunch of greedy ******** are in charge. I think that the NFAA and IBO should come out with guidelines where say on an elk target max is so many yards, on an antelope the max is so many, a wolf size the max is so many, a coyote is so many, a bobcat is so many,a jackalope, skunk and other small targets is so many and etc. These guidelines along with the age class guidelines would help solve some of these concerns. I still think we need more than this though, as this is only a start.


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## Ditch Pickle

shoots need more drawings and raffels . people love a chance at wining some thing. good food and payouts...........................


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## WIHoyt

I had comments and then I realized they were negative and didnt add to help anything.


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## 3D Pinwheeler

Really good stuff! BowJunky rocks! Keep stuff like this coming!


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## ahunter55

Being a Master Senior (over 65) I remember when in the Archery Busn. from 1964 through 1982 (owned 2 shops/lanes) these old guys of today shooting indoor 300s & outdoor NFAA field scores of "perfect" with fingers & recurves, so to the young archers of today-they have done it the hard way (shot better). I also remember when Ill. had sold a total of 5000 Deer tags for Archery & today the Non-residents have waaayyyy surpased that number. Archery has grown for sure but the numbers of tourny shooters % wise compared to number of people in archery today seems less. I remember state shoots, sectionals in the 70s & TONS of competition in every class.
The PAA became it's own when the big controversays about releases came about at Cobo Hall in 1968. Yea, I was a pro shooter back in those days but never was consist enough to become very well known. I did manage a few good wins back in my day though.

What do we as a sport need to do to make tourny shooting more newbie friendly , Interesting, ect..? it's been a debated question in all my 57 years of organized archery. No problem in the Bowhunting part, just look at the Biggame tags sold every year.
As far as comparing Archery/Bowhunting to Golf, not even close & in fact, when Pro golf started, they were refered to as "slobs". 
As far as kill & harvest, that will be another never ending debate & to me comes down to personal choice.. For the unfriendly part of a newcomer, I see the opposite. To many "helpers" telling a newbie this or that is the best way. When I gave archery lessons in my shops I had one rule-listen to me, your instructor & no one else. I will teach you the basics & then "after" I'm done teaching, you will build/develope your own style that best suits you from this .
We definatly need to bring new, younger people into our sport & for all you back yard shooters, go to a shoot, join a club if nearby & join one of your state archery/Bowhunting assns.AND make suggestions if you have any...


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