# How do I build up my shelf



## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I've often used a small section of toothpick, matchstick, etc. under the rug rest. You place it directly above the deepest part of the grip. The idea is to have as little arrow-to-shelf contact as possible. Another way to do it is use a small piece of the self-anhesive pads you put on chair bottoms and such. Maybe KPC will chime in on that one--he's the innovator behind it.

Doesn't have to be very high at all--you just want good clearance. 

I don't know if you'd have to change arrows or not--I wouldn't think so, but I haven't shot off a rest in years and don't remember.

Chad


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

gary, as you already know, the Nexus is a flat shelf, cut-past-center, Hoyt target riser. You will need to build it up and the shelf wall out considerably to make it a shelf shooter. It can be done with adhesive padding material but with a bunch. Not ideal. 

I don't know of any pictures available out there. There is a thread somewhere around here about a bolt on adapter for the Excel for shelf-shooting, but I'm not sure if available yet or adaptable to the Nexus. As for the arrows, as long as you build the shelf wall to where you can adjust the thickness, they should be tuneable to a centershot location like with a bolt-in fixed rest via the plunger hole. Again, that will take some amount of thickness to make up the difference in riser build for intentional shooting with a rest.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Gary -

The Nexus Has a fairly large/flat shelf and you're going to need a fair amount of height to prevent the arrow from contacting/bouncing off the shelf during the shot. You're also going to have to build out the "strike plate" to approximate the distance from the sight window as your current springy rest. (Those risers are cut pretty far past center.)

I've heard of people using furniture pads (the things you put under the legs to protect the floor) to build up the shelf height and strike plate, but the ones I've seen have dubious adhesive properties. If you insist on shooting the riser off the shelf, consider getting a 1/2" dowel and cutting it in half length-wise and then using a 1/2" section with a piece of leather or velcro (fuzzy part) attached to the curved part and then affixing it to the shelf with double stick / mounting tape. Build out the strike plate with the furniture pads, etc or just use a plunger. 

Whatever you do, check the rules for local matches you might be attending, as to what's allowed and what isn't in each class.

Personally,, since you have a good riser there, I'd stay with the rest or go to the NAP Centershot or rest/plunger combo. 

BTW - unless you are using very long arrows 500s will tune stiff for that rig. 

Viper1 out.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I don't have experience with that particular riser, but I have "fixed" bows with large, flat shelves. It didn't take much--again, a piece of toothpick, matchstick, even a sliver off a wooden arrow shaft. 

Consider the radius on bow shelves that are ready-made for shooting off the shelf--that's all you need to do. If you bounce the arrow off this, I'd imagine you have other problems. 'Course if it's not enough, it's not a big deal to change it. 

Never heard of this being against any rules at a tournament--and I've shot in them from TX to PA.

Chad


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Ok it sounds like with the toothpicks and or the 1/2" dowell I will be building a speed bump on the shelf and then enough side plate to controll the center shot. should there be a gap between the shelf and the side plate for feather clearance?


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Gary, some guys do a fairly good job with the GMII and Dorado bows, but they are not near the sized shelf and wall cut as found on those and many other target bows of that design. As for your last question, clearance is an issue you would have to work out on a build-by-build basis. 

As for Rules at a shoot, you will need to watch the side plate build out. Some require that plate to remain below a 1/4" from above the arrow. If you tried to shoot close to the bottom of the shelf (not advisable at all) and built out some gaudy wall plate to make up the difference of the missing rest and plunger combo or similar, you would need to keep it all below that line. As with anything, it's all doable it's just not done on those bows by most folks.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> Ok it sounds like with the toothpicks and or the 1/2" dowell I will be building a speed bump on the shelf...


Basically--that's what it will look like anyway.



> should there be a gap between the shelf and the side plate for feather clearance?


I couldn't say for sure that it matters, but I like to leave a small gap. Doesn't hurt anything that I can see.

Chad


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks guys it sound like I have enough info to be dangerous it is only for one shoot then the springy is right back on. Going to the IBO WORLD TRAD in July then on to Yankton SD.
Thank you for the help
Gary


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Cool--barring no disasters I'll be at the IBO in July.

Chad


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

The heavy duty felt pad reasts are a piece of cake. Go here to see how it's done. 

http://www.piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=463&p=4257&hilit=simple+but+effective#p4257

I've never had one come off yet and I have been using them for years in rain, snow, sleet, heat, and sub freezing temps. They are quiet, easily tuned, and wear like iron.










KPC


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Always nice to have a voice of experience to qualm speculation.

Chad


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Ok, I have to ask. 



> I've heard of people using furniture pads (the things you put under the legs to protect the floor) to build up the shelf height and strike plate, but *the ones I've seen have dubious adhesive properties*.


Have you used them at all? They are made to go on the bottom of furniture legs, primarily chairs, stools, etc. Seems to me they would be very heavy-duty and have very good adhesion, since they get a lot more wear and tear being used for their primary purpose than having an arrow shaft rub against them. What exactly is "dubious adhesive properties"???? What brand(s) had this...fault?



> If you insist on shooting the riser off the shelf, consider getting a 1/2" dowel and cutting it in half length-wise and then using a 1/2" section with a piece of leather or velcro (fuzzy part) attached to the curved part and *then affixing it to the shelf with double stick / mounting tape. *


I can't see mounting tape having anywhere near the adhesion as the furniture pads. What brand(s) are you comparing? Since Gary is going to be shooting in temps approaching 100 degrees or more, and in a major tournament, he really needs good advice based on facts. It would really stink to have his tournament ruined based on nothing but speculation.

Seems to me to be some more of that "stuff" you talked about "flying here" recently.

For the record, I have a package of the "Soft Touch" felt pads by "Waxman" in my shop. I set someone up using one some time ago--can't remember who, but evidenty it worked just fine because they haven't been back for a replacement. I haven't tried one myself yet because the fuzzy side of industrial strength velcro works great for me, even though it doesn't stick as well as the furniture pads. I will give it a try sooner or later--probably have to just rip the velcro off and swap rather than wait for it to wear out or break loose on it's own (and the furniture pads stick better).

Chad


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

WOW thats just to easy I will have it done today less is always best Thanks
Gary


GEREP said:


> The heavy duty felt pad reasts are a piece of cake. Go here to see how it's done.
> 
> http://www.piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=463&p=4257&hilit=simple+but+effective#p4257
> 
> ...


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

GEREP said:


> The heavy duty felt pad reasts are a piece of cake. Go here to see how it's done.
> 
> http://www.piratesofarchery.net/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=463&p=4257&hilit=simple+but+effective#p4257
> 
> ...


Gerep, it can be done more easily on a cast riser like yours. Nice, clean, work, BTW. My GMII and the Dorado are similar but pre-radiused a bit. Have done similar to get them there.

For those unfamiliar with machine cut risers of typical target bow design, which typically are wider/larger shelves and cut more past center than cast (because they can), and for which there seems to be some confusion about by some, here below is what one is dealing with. And no, a matchstick or toothpick under a bear rug ain't gonna cut it by any stretch


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> And no, a matchstick or toothpick under a bear rug ain't gonna cut it by any stretch


Have your tried it? Not that it matters--seems KPC has solved the problem. 

Of course it wouldn't solve the strike plate problem, but that wasn't the question asked to begin with.

Chad


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

LBR said:


> Have your tried it? Not that it matters--seems KPC has solved the problem.
> 
> Of course it wouldn't solve the strike plate problem, but that wasn't the question asked to begin with.
> 
> Chad


Actually, and interesting, I shoot 3D with a gentleman that shoots a Warf. It's a compound riser. He shoots with nothing on it. He shoots off the flat of the shelf and against the shelf wall - waaaay inboard from center. His arrows are a whole other discussion. He does pretty good and I would never try to impose my view on the matter less he asked, which he doesn't. So, probably no, I wouldn't try it, but if asked, I would have to revert to what is the convention and not an exception.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I use the felt pads with success. Before you take the springy off the bow measure the arrows position to the shelf and side plate. cut a pad section to cover the whole shelf and then whittle a piece of dowel to make up the difference in thickness needed. Form the pad over the dowel piece to form a bump. Do the same on the side plate. This way you get right back to your center shot. If you miss the dimension rip it off and do it again, it takes all of 10 minutes.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I appreciate the reply.



> And no, a matchstick or toothpick under a bear rug ain't gonna cut it by any stretch


When someone gives such a straightforward, cut-and-dry answer, I would expect they have tried it themself or at least have first-hand knowledge from someone who did. 

That's why I constantly emphasize that people do their homework and ask questions rather that just accept internet opinions as fact. 

I don't know why, but it's just too easy for some folks to give an "answer" when they have no experience. Why is it easier to make something up rather than simply say "I don't know" or just say nothing? 

That's rhetorical btw...I don't expect an answer any more than I expect my "dubious adhesive" questions to get answered.

Chad


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

LBR, I never said he won anything, just shot pretty good  He likes to shoot that way or is to lazy to work it out, don't know. As a suggestion on a message board, nope, not a fact of shooting a bow I would suggest by any stretch.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I tried the furniture pads on my Dorado for a while. I had the ones from Home Depot (don't know the name brand) and did not have very good luck. They stuck, but not very well. Maybe it was the rough finish of the Dorado. As for the side plates and toothpicks - they got no where near centershot for that riser, they were not wide enough to get the arrow out where it should be. I've used the double stick mounting tape under a piece of wood to build up the rest with good results. 3M double tape was much better than the stuff on the furniture pads I had. Hoyt makes some thick felt pads (just for this application) that work ok. In the end I just went back to my NAP Centerest flipper.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> LBR, I never said he won anything, just shot pretty good


Not the point. You said no way it would work on that shelf--how do you know if you never tried it? To the contrary, you come back saying you know someone who does "pretty good" without even that much on a similar shelf.



> I tried the furniture pads on my Dorado for a while.


At least you are speaking from experience. You are the first I've heard about *that has actually tried them *that didn't have good luck with them. Have you used the mounting tape in high temps?



> As for the side plates and toothpicks


Maybe I missed it--who said that would work on this riser? I mentioned radiusing the shelf like that, not the strike plate. It will work fine on the strike plate of old wood bows that aren't cut way past center, but obviously not on bows that are cut well past center--at least not very well.

Chad


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

I use the felt pads too, but unlike GEREP, I had trouble with the adhesive holding up. I put the 3M gray moulding double-sided tape on the existing adhesive to cure the problem. They're great for wood and metal risers alike.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I did not try them in hot temps - I gave up on it and went back to the flipper on the Dorado. I want to work on a better rest for my longbow and may try it again. I would like to get the arrow off the shelf a bit to help with fletching wear, give a little cushion and even up the tiller for 3 under shooting. The leather patch does not give much and may work better set up like a recurve. Don't know if it will make much difference but I shall soon see.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Sanford said:


> Gerep, it can be done more easily on a cast riser like yours. Nice, clean, work, BTW. My GMII and the Dorado are similar but pre-radiused a bit. Have done similar to get them there.
> 
> For those unfamiliar with machine cut risers of typical target bow design, which typically are wider/larger shelves and cut more past center than cast (because they can), and for which there seems to be some confusion about by some, here below is what one is dealing with. And no, a matchstick or toothpick under a bear rug ain't gonna cut it by any stretch


Actually, the riser shown in my pic *is* a machined riser (TradTech Titan) and is cut .359" past center. Probably the same as, or very close to the target riser you posted. I have no problem setting my Hoyt Excel riser the same way. If the sideplate needs to come out a little further than the thickness of one of the pads, a double stick foam spacer works quite well.

KPC


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I stand corrected (ain't the first time, and won't be the last unless my time is up real soon). Evidently there is better quality double-sided tape on the market than I'm familiar with. It's going to take hearing it from somone who's actually used the stuff to convince me though, not assumptions and guesses.

Thanks Jim and KPC for setting the record straight based on your experiences.

Chad


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> I use the felt pads too, but unlike GEREP, I had trouble with the adhesive holding up. I put the 3M gray moulding double-sided tape on the existing adhesive to cure the problem. They're great for wood and metal risers alike.


I'm guessing it depends on what brand you use Jim. I actually have to work to get mine off.

Maybe I'm just living right.



KPC


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Chad,

That double-sided carpet tape works well too, especially the kind that has the strands of fiber in it. It works great under leather, so no more Barge Cement for me. :^)


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

I learned something today. It's been a while since I used the stuff, and when I did I decided it was junk. Just goes to show I need to update my info. now and then!

Chad


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## ChadMR82 (Sep 22, 2009)

soft touch brand furniture pads on Lowes work nice and their adhesive is very good. They come in black and with a variety of sizes. How about a Martin Rest Mount for the side plate so that you can adjust it out and you can put the furniture pad or velcro right to the rest mount.


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

Gary,

You can shoot IBO rules Recurve Unaided (RU) at the World Trads if your interested and not have to remove your button or rest as both are allowed in RU class. You can also use a limb clicker and an external weight on the riser. I use my FITA barebow rig which is legal in IBO RU class. See you there. Gar.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Gary, here is a problem for consideration. You have a nice ILF target riser. When you want to switch back, which you probably will unless you plan to keep it as a shelf shooter, you will have to strip all that stuff off and on each time you make a switch. I have the same issue - a need to shoot both ways. I didn't buy the riser to have a dedicated shelf shot bow.

What I ended up finally doing was getting a PinnaclleII. ILF riser for shelf shooting with my same limbs. It is made for it.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

I use velcro. two longer pieces, one each on shelf and sight window, then smaller ones I can move forward, backward for best tune. i add layers to build up or out when needed. AND... the plunger hole is left clear so I can slap my terry rest and plunger back on for shooting in RU class and being all velcro, the "rest pulls off and goes in my box till I want it back on.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I guess I have been lucky with felt pads and got the good ones. I don't doubt that there are not so good ones out there but so far the ones I have been cutting pieces from stick like crazy. In case anyone wants to know, on metal risers WD40 on a rag takes the glue off very well, then use something to get the WD40 off before sticking anything else on the riser.


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## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

My father builds a custom rest for all my stage bows, layers of wood glue and leather. Very accurate and it works great. The downside to this rest is that it doesn't do well in brush or hunting situations, it is made for accuracy and on stage. On my hunting recurves he has used other materials, I will see if I have any photos of these other rests.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

trapperDave said:


> I use velcro. two longer pieces, one each on shelf and sight window, then smaller ones I can move forward, backward for best tune. i add layers to build up or out when needed. AND... the plunger hole is left clear so I can slap my terry rest and plunger back on for shooting in RU class and being all velcro, the "rest pulls off and goes in my box till I want it back on.


That is a pretty neat design. If you are RU, I assume you mean IBO or similar. By the rules for Trad, that would be an interesting call. 

Original Rules: 

"Arrow should be shot from the shelf or hand with no elevated rest. _*Only a piece of leather or similar material 1/8 inch thick or less*_ shall be allowed on the arrow shelf."

Newer Rules: 

"Arrows shall be shot off the hand or _*shelf of the riser only*_. An arrow side plate (if used) may only extend one (1) inch above the arrow."

The arrow side plate rule is interesting, as they allow a side-plate but don't specifically rule out any "plunger" mechanism beforehand. They do mention a plunger in the RU as being legal. A foam springy pad could fit that ticket if called out I guess. Maybe never ruled on. I do know that I have gotten some plunger action from similar foam/felt pads.

"Shelf of the riser only" seems to eliminate the older rule on a piece of leather being allowed, but a raised pad raises the question of an elevated rest and not "off the shelf of the bow".

I would think if I use pads on my wood recurve, which I do for other venues and some local IBO ruled shoots, it wouldn't draw any questions. I wonder, though, if I showed with an Oly type riser decked with raised and padded shelf floor and a springy padded shelf wall, if by some technical, I would be called as illegal.

NFAA seems more clear on these issues: 

# No device of any kind, including arrow rest, that can be used for sighting will be used or attached to the archer's equipment. (allows a rest for the arrow as long as not for sighting)

# There shall be no device, mechanical or otherwise, in the sight window except the arrow rest, arrow plate or plunger button. (defines "plate" and "plunger" as being two separate things, which they are by their action or lack thereof)

Interesting.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

its a quarter inch above the shelf which is a whole lot lower than a brush rest or feather rest or a hair rest LOL Its still off the shelf 

i rareley shoot RU, but if I choose it just takes a minute to attach a rest,plunger and raise the nock


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

trapperDave said:


> its a quarter inch above the shelf which is a whole lot lower than a brush rest or feather rest or a hair rest LOL Its still off the shelf
> 
> i rareley shoot RU, but if I choose it just takes a minute to attach a rest,plunger and raise the nock


Oh, you mean "off the shelf" as in "above", so in compliance with the rules for Trad. I see  Just kidding


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)




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## marc weier (May 26, 2009)

I have also used the pads but I like to cover them with velcro. Helps hold them on and keeps the arrow from making noise when I load them onto the rest.


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## bailebr3 (Sep 21, 2010)

heres how i did one excel...a lil more fancy but easy to do with wood. i epoxied a aluminium radius for the shelf and used a 5/15-24 countersink screw for the sideplate, along with a set screw to lock it in place.....then simply cover everything with some soft velcro.


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## bailebr3 (Sep 21, 2010)

better pic


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## IAIS604 (Apr 11, 2010)

Brandon -

That looks great !!!

What are the dimensions of that aluminum radius ???

Thanks!


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## bailebr3 (Sep 21, 2010)

honestly i cant remember...but hte best thing to do is go to the hardware store and buy a wooden dowel that when you half it...will be close to the plunger hole( keep in mind the velcro adding a lil height). then simply cut it in half paint it, stain it, or cover it all with velcro and you will be good to go.


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## ChadMR82 (Sep 22, 2009)

bailebr3 said:


> honestly i cant remember...but hte best thing to do is go to the hardware store and buy a wooden dowel that when you half it...will be close to the plunger hole( keep in mind the velcro adding a lil height). then simply cut it in half paint it, stain it, or cover it all with velcro and you will be good to go.


What kind of epoxy did you use and have you had pretty good luck with it?


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## bailebr3 (Sep 21, 2010)

2part devcon 2ton epoxy...its what most every knifemaker uses for knife scales and pins. i have used this stuff for years with great results.


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## Van/TX (Jul 20, 2008)

gary, these things have worked for decades on flat shelves. About $2.00 I think...Van


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## fotoguy (Jul 30, 2007)

as stated by GEREP, the felt pads work great and are cheap to buy as well......while at tradtech we sent many cast AND machined riser out with that setup for customers and never heard a complaint...when i shot a metal riser..it was the setup i used......


lee


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

holy cow my brain hurts from all the great info I have tried the 1/4" furniture pads they worked great. Boy were they ugly looked like a right angle drive on a west Texas pumping unit. I think I will stick to my Springy kind of like an old pair of boots that fit good.
Thank you all I had no idea you Trad guys were so picky. You better be carfull sombody will accuse you guys of being serious Archers 
Gary


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

2413gary said:


> holy cow my brain hurts from all the great info I have tried the 1/4" furniture pads they worked great. Boy were they ugly looked like a right angle drive on a west Texas pumping unit. I think I will stick to my Springy kind of like an old pair of boots that fit good.
> Thank you all I had no idea you Trad guys were so picky. You better be carfull sombody will accuse you guys of being serious Archers
> Gary


Hey, Gary, at least you tried it out and know what it's about. On some risers, the fit and dimensions provide for a better job. On some, not so.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

After shooting it about 100 times I can see why you like it for hunting


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## slinger (Jul 25, 2003)

How do you guys adjust the width of the side plate with the stick-on felt pads?
I just put some on my Quinn Stallion, but didn't get to shoot b/c it started raining, but I can tell that it's too thick.

Thanks!!

slinger


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

slinger said:


> How do you guys adjust the width of the side plate with the stick-on felt pads?
> I just put some on my Quinn Stallion, but didn't get to shoot b/c it started raining, but I can tell that it's too thick.
> 
> Thanks!!
> ...












KPC


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## slinger (Jul 25, 2003)

That makes sense. Will give it a try.
thanks!


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

For the record, I learned today that a toothpick under the rug will not give you enough clearance on these particular risers--the shelf really is to big and you need more elevation than that.

Never said I couldn't be wrong--I just had to find out from a reliable source.

Chad


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## ChadMR82 (Sep 22, 2009)

Here is something I recently did to my Titan. I found some plastic mixing stix that are supposed to be used for mixing cocktails but we do not drink. My wife had them for some kind of craft she did. They are 1/4 inch thick and square in shape. I cut the appropriate pieces and covered them in a neoprene felt material I had left over from using it on the riser on my compound. I think it looks pretty good. The neoprene material really shaped around the small pieces I cut. As far as durability, time will tell.


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## Van/TX (Jul 20, 2008)

2413gary said:


> Thank you all I had no idea you Trad guys were so picky. You better be carfull sombody will accuse you guys of being serious Archers
> Gary


Actually Gary, Trad Archers are *the* most serious Archers...Van


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## ChadMR82 (Sep 22, 2009)

ChadMR82 said:


> View attachment 1092674
> View attachment 1092675
> Here is something I recently did to my Titan. I found some plastic mixing stix that are supposed to be used for mixing cocktails but we do not drink. My wife had them for some kind of craft she did. They are 1/4 inch thick and square in shape. I cut the appropriate pieces and covered them in a neoprene felt material I had left over from using it on the riser on my compound. I think it looks pretty good. The neoprene material really shaped around the small pieces I cut. As far as durability, time will tell.


Already went back to the furniture pads. The neoprene material felt strange as the arrow went across it. All well.


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