# formula excel



## BloodyCactus (Feb 15, 2010)

I see hoyt came out with the bottom end excel in formula style.

what I'm not seeing is a good range of limbs or cheap limbs. Wonder how long it will be for the other brands to make moves to supporting both ILF/FX style..

I fail to see how a low end riser works without lowend limbs.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I would be pretty surprised if they did. At least not in next few years.


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## dominator (Jan 2, 2004)

*cheap formula limbs*

Alternative Services has Excel Formula limbs for sale for $220 to go with the Excel Formula riser.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Actually, I think it's a brilliant move. And I commend them for making it. 

Some things I've seen from Hoyt in the past 3 or 4 years impress me. Well designed, affordable risers for the average guy. Neat stuff. The Excel was a great little riser, as was the Eclipse. This is a natural progression.

John.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Actually, I think it's a brilliant move. And I commend them for making it.
> 
> Some things I've seen from Hoyt in the past 3 or 4 years impress me. Well designed, affordable risers for the average guy. Neat stuff. The Excel was a great little riser, as was the Eclipse. This is a natural progression.
> 
> John.


Hi I agree good to see a bottom end riser with the new fittings I dont think it will take long for other companies to make limbs to suit
Just out of intrestet how long did it take other companies to follow Hoyt with the TD 4? with the ILF ?


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Robert43:
We are on it already...
It took us 2 months from the first bows coming out in public hands to get a RX compatable limb.

By the sounds of it we are not the only ones from what i have heard Sky might also be working on some.

We have always said hoyt make nice risers, and that the hard lock system should'nt wear out like Ali dovetails. (nice touch)

Im sure there is a market for lighter Ti upgrades to the hardlock bolt??


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

...


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

Good to here I have only just gone to recurve & love my Hoyt Eclipse riser but 1 day I will get a RX Excell & will look into you limbs


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Hoyt has always made good risers (I just bought one actually) but many, like I do, prefer other limbs. That's what I hate about this new trend.

Bring back original woodcore Carbon+'s I say. I haven't yet seen better Hoyt limbs than that. No matter how much people say that this or that is basically similar, the feel really isn't the same. Or Earl really had some magic dust somewhere.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Gents - 

Guess if you believe that the new Hoyt system is all that and a bag of chips, then the new Excel Rx is a great thing for archery. If you think it's little more than a marketing ploy (making a proprietary limb coupling), then it "might" be a great thing for Hoyt - or maybe not. Anybody still use a Beta Max? 

Gotta go with zal on this one. 

Viper1 out.


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## BloodyCactus (Feb 15, 2010)

It hasnt made it until we see the likes of cheap trex limbs.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

If the new system is truly better, it will be reflected in scores. There is not yet enough data to suggest those shooting with the Hoyt RX set ups are measurably better than they were last year. 

It is reasonable for archers to be skeptical about Hoyt building a better mouse trap. If it becomes clear that they have, you'll see a mass exodus to that type of system....and the competition will find a way to create lookalikes and knockoffs. 

I think an apt analogy might be VHS tapes to DVD technology. Once people figured out that DVDs were superior to VHS tapes, the movement was to DVD. There are still lots of folks with VHS tapes, but even they concede that DVDs are superior. Hoyt would love to be the clear winner in bow and limb technology and relegate ILF to the status of VHS tapes. 

Show me the scores!


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

ive yet to see a comparison in numerical terms that shows the F4 VS the 990TX.

Is someone shy of doing a draw force curve compairing the two... is there NO difference, or is it inferiour.

If it was better, then id sure tell folks about it. Ive only seen 25" RX vs 27" RX. 
Whats the efficency of the design, or do we have to just take the words of payed staff telling us it's x faster. Infact, if they payed me id tell you it was faster too!

The W&W bows are independently tested... they stand behind their claims.


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

*What limbs do fit or can be recommended?*

Please does anyone know for sure if you can even mount F4 on the new Formula Excel?

There is some confusion about that. Some shops say you can use the Excel Formula limbs and F2, and others say you can use them all (Excel Formula, F2,F3,F4)

Now I got confused: What limbs can I use on the Formula Excel??? 

Martin


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## shooter10x (Nov 13, 2008)

When i asked several archers at the Nationals how they like the RX, the reply was the same. Its been tough for me to tune but I think with some tweaking and a little change in my form I could shoot it as well as my GMX. When I say then why not shoot the GMX, they say because they either have to shoot this bow, or they paid all this money for it now they are gonna make it work. Only in America


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

shooter10x said:


> When i asked several archers at the Nationals how they like the RX,


Note: This threat is about the new Formula Excel.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

youknow said:


> Note: This threat is about the new Formula Excel.


When i asked several archers at the Nationals how they like the *FORMULA EXCEL*, the reply was the same. Its been tough for me to tune but I think with some tweaking and a little change in my form I could shoot it as well as my GMX. When I say then why not shoot the GMX, they say because they either have to shoot this bow, or they paid all this money for it now they are gonna make it work. 

See the point?


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Greysides said:


> When i asked several archers at the Nationals how they like the *FORMULA EXCEL*, the reply was the same. Its been tough for me to tune but I think with some tweaking and a little change in my form I could shoot it as well as my GMX. When I say then why not shoot the GMX, they say because they either have to shoot this bow, or they paid all this money for it now they are gonna make it work.
> 
> See the point?


No, what do you mean? You exchanged RX with Formula Excel in the text.

But the Formula RX and the Formula Excel are two different risers!!

Did you know that?


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

youknow said:


> No, what do you mean? You exchanged RX with Formula Excel in the text.
> 
> But the Formula RX and the Formula Excel are two different risers!!
> 
> Did you know that?


My meaning was that if the Daddy is hard to tune, it may well apply to it's off-spring.

I've not heard complaints about the standard Excel being difficult so that might be ascribed to the new connection system- assuming the original comment is bourne out.

Eleonora Strobbe, shooting barebow seems to be able to get her RX to work alright.

Whether mere mortals like me would notice the difficulties is another question.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*records*

Jay Lyons beat his old record twice in one week with his new formula rx.. Guys don`t put a product down until you have shot one for a length of time not ten arrows or owned one... seems anyone WHO OWNS ONE LOVES IT....


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Greysides said:


> My meaning was that if the Daddy is hard to tune, it may well apply to it's off-spring.
> 
> I've not heard complaints about the standard Excel being difficult so that might be ascribed to the new connection system- assuming the original comment is bourne out.
> 
> ...


I am beginner, I can only trust them. But I suspect that Hoyt had enough time to test their designs and they were probably not under pressure releasing the new formula system.

I just want to be sure that maybe one day I can put eg. F3 limbs on the new Formula Excel.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

youknow said:


> I
> I just want to be sure that maybe one day I can put eg. F3 limbs on the new Formula Excel.



http://alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/001055.5.8623623530697326701

*That link may not work- you may need to navigate to the page. Main contents below~*

Formula Excel riser

High Tech Affordability

Hoyt's new Formula System has completely re-defined recurve bows, taking the sport and it's shooters to all-new levels. Never before has a product been so dominant so soon after introduction.

Now, Hoyt has put Formula in reach of even the most budget-minded archers.

Introducing the all-new Formula Excel series, including a precision machined aluminium riser and Hoyt's unmatched wood core limb technology.

Formula Excel delivers all the benefits of the innovative Formula Paralever System with the precision and complete adjustability demanded by top archers.

If you are looking for a high performance recurve bow at an unheard of price, don't settle for second best - Formula Excel is now here.

* Riser length: 25in
* Available in LH and RH
* Painted colours:
o Black
o Blue
o Red
o White

Formula Excel risers accept Hoyt F2, F3, F4 and Formula Excel limbs only.


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Greysides said:


> http://alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/001055.5.8623623530697326701
> 
> Formula Excel is now here.
> 
> ...


Yeah, thanks and I also found that page.

Unfortunately there was another link where inly F2 was listed and one sales even told me that you cannot use the F.

On the Hoyt webpage you find, well, little info.
Maybe they take it for granted that you can use all formula limbs on any formula riser (as it should be).

So far I only saw one posting on the web from someone who shot the F Excel.

Not many reports out there, perhaps only a few owner so far. We'll have to wait.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

http://www.quicksarchery.co.uk/superbasket/product.php?product=111

Formula Excel Bow Details

* New Technology from Hoyt featuring the new Paralever stress managing limb mounting system--now extended to an economical priced riser
* Machined alloy riser with wood core limbs
* Can host the Formula Excel, F2, F3 and F4 limbs
* A range of grip options
* Striking colour options available


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Greysides said:


> http://www.quicksarchery.co.uk/superbasket/product.php?product=111
> 
> Formula Excel Bow Details
> 
> ...


If that all is true, I know what I have to do: get it!

Because I have no ILF limbs, in fact, I have no limbs at all. So I really have no other choice but to take the newest system on the market, right?


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Follow your heart, it will keep you happy.

Your head may mention, that there's lot of good ILF limbs available, some may be better than the Formula series?
If you want to buy second-hand, Therer will be more of the older limbs, and risers available. Also more of a market for second-hand ILF stuff.
Time has yet to decide the greatness and longevity of the new system.

However, if you like it and can afford it, why not! Enjoy! It looks different and dare I say it................nice.










Eleonora Strobe with her Formula RX.......customised barebow side-weights?


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Greysides said:


> Time has yet to decide the greatness and longevity of the new system.
> 
> However, if you like it and can afford it, why not! Enjoy! It looks different and dare I say it................nice.


Go to archeryTV on youtube and check the new 2010 competition videos. There you can see the RX next to others. The RX not always wins but many times and the sound ..... like music man, like wind making music. Cannot be bad hah?

Yeah, the new system is like "less is more". Good for the eye, less riser puts the limbs in the foreground.


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Greysides said:


> However, if you like it and can afford it, why not!


well, the Formula Excel is almost 1/3 of the RX, so it should be affordable


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Greysides said:


>












Same finish? :shade::shade::shade::shade:

The black risers always remind me of old black typewriters :embara:

I think I prefer white?


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## shooter10x (Nov 13, 2008)

Sorry you know, I thought the RX and Excel may be of a similar design which is why I made that comment. Classichunter, I did not have to shoot this riser at all to find out what some of the top archers in the world today thought of it. I trust they have some knowledge of tuning and what riser is easier to work with and which one is not.


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## youknow (Aug 4, 2010)

Good news: Hoyt confirmed to me that all the formula series limbs can be used with the new Formula Excel riser.


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Borderbows said:


> Whats the efficency of the design, or do we have to just take the words of payed staff telling us it's x faster. Infact, if they payed me id tell you it was faster too!


Oddly enough, the first person you saw saying it was faster would have been me. All the chronographing tests I've done say that it's faster. It's not like it's something I can easily fake when I've got other people watching what goes on and doing the bow weighing for me and shooting their arrows through comparable bows. 
It is quite funny to watch one manufacturer take considerable swipes at another manufacturers product. Then make a copy that they talk up, then go back to taking swipes. 
The market decides what it takes confidence in. Archery has such an equipment focussed undercurrent that anything deigned to be advantageous is welcomed with open wallets. 
Regardless of all you propose and continually tell everyone, it just makes you come across as a sore loser. 
In every other sport where it matters, superior products are used at the very top and in the highest performances. It's a simple yardstick which almost always rings true. There is always a reason. It's just one that some companies don't like.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

I respect your reply Andy.
Your more than clear on which side of the camp you sit on.
I ask real questions of one company only for one reason.


As ive already said, the risers are great, and we aspire to have some of equal/better quality some day.
Mr Hoyt himself set Hoyt up with a fantastic foundation in our opinion.

Im still not convinced that a change in a single bolt position will make a difference, the small lever effect of the Paralever is a bit like winding a bolt in by that small nano of a change, do you think this will effect the DFC by enough to make a change?
And you cant bash us for taking 20 minutes out of our day to modify our limbs to fit an RX was a dumb move. Afterall, we do beleave a riser is just a clamp, its the limbs that power the bow. (i do mean 20 minutes to make the full move to having a RX compatable limb)

is there a comparison on a dfc available to proove to people that the bow is different 25" vs 25", or 27" vs 27" on a 990tx/GMX to RX/F4 to show where this speed could come from?

And if you think our hex5 is a copy of the f series... you need your eyes tested. The bolt layout doesnt mean anything here.
The hex5 in a 62" bow 19"riser is quantifiably smoother in draw than a 70" F4, and that shouldnt be possible, but i can offer you simple smoothness tests to proove it. as well as giving you a dfc if you like, To say that we are hyping up the RX with our "copy limb" is not at all even on the same continent, let alone the same ball pitch.

Sorry for the rant there OP.


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## Shinigami3 (Oct 7, 2009)

Soooo... Is that 20 minutes of engineering time the reason those Border limbs blew up on the first shot at Nationals? And is that kind of attention detail par for the company, or was this just an exception for the poor fellow you sold them to?


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

All companies have limb failures. Sometimes even a whole line of limbs that suffer from the same failure.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Shinigami3 said:


> Soooo... Is that 20 minutes of engineering time the reason those Border limbs blew up on the first shot at Nationals? And is that kind of attention detail par for the company, or was this just an exception for the poor fellow you sold them to?


Good one gt. Go get him...  I see some things haven't changed here. Oh I do so miss AT sometimes....


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

zal said:


> Hoyt has always made good risers (I just bought one actually) but many, like I do, prefer other limbs. That's what I hate about this new trend.
> 
> Bring back original woodcore Carbon+'s I say. I haven't yet seen better Hoyt limbs than that. No matter how much people say that this or that is basically similar, the feel really isn't the same. Or Earl really had some magic dust somewhere.


I'm rather convinced he did. And he managed to keep that hidden when he sold out to Easton. Because his SKY limbs had it too...


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Please gentlemen...

Lets keep this real.

The geometry is no different to a 27" Inno or Luxor.

The Limb butt with the level of re-enforcements were not the reason for failure.

Did you ask the other archers who had hoyt limbs fail why hoyt wasted more then 20 minutes on their R&D time just to have the same responce?

So lets get off the petty cheap shots and try and get back to some real numbers...
Are hoyt ready to dish the real numbers on draw force curves between the GMX and RX? GT, Are you shy?

Im sure we all know, as pointed out, we all have failures.
im mean, we know limb stress levels, we have just set a new british flight record for a 50lbs target bow both men and womans at 483 yards at sea level, with a slight (very slight head wind), the worlds record is looking good. Salt lake, should give about 5% more... ( congratulations to Mike and Janice Willrich for some excelent shooting) 
Now, a flight bow has huge amounts more stress levels than a target bow... so, we understand limbs fail, we also understand that it wasnt the limb butt of the 27" riser that did it. Afterall, its the shorter risers that stress limbs more... We have the replacement limbs nearly made, but the archer in question wants to change draw weight, so thats not a problem. the quick heads up, wasnt the quick start we thought it might have been...

(if the limb butt angle is the same on a 27" inno or Luxor which have been out for a while, as it is on the RX, and we know the geom of these with our limbs, then how much R&D was needed to extend the limb butt by 40%. Our limb formers already had the extra length in the limb butt 3 years ago... so if the limb pads are at the same angles as already known risers then how much do we need to do????)

Put two bows at mid point brace height, limbs at identical bolt positions, ontop of reach other, 27" ILF with a 27" RX and you will see the differences, they dont equate to much in terms of anything radical., yes, 40% better static and dynamic alignment. but thats just a longer limb butt. and not different geom.

The working limb is not going to be any different if the limb pad angles are equal. So, did anyone ask Butch Johnson with his F3 limbs, (lower limb) why his limbs failed at the US nationals aswell?
Afterall that was all on Hoyts Drawing board... did hoyt not spend enough time on the R&D... come on, lets keep the limb failures real George...
Cheap shots aside, lets try and keep to some real numbers???


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> I'm rather convinced he did. And he managed to keep that hidden when he sold out to Easton. Because his SKY limbs had it too...


There were times I would have given my left arm for suitable 70/36 Sky Jacks, but nowadays I'm too grown to my winex's that changing them doesn't really make any sense at all, until they explode and go to limb heaven.


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## shooter10x (Nov 13, 2008)

Dont feel bad Borderbows, two formular limbs exploded at nationals so that means hoyts failure rate is twice that of Border.


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*Earl*



zal said:


> Earl really had some magic dust somewhere.


He did! Ask First1300!

JimC will tell you, and so am I here and now, Earl Hoyt made some of the finest limbs ever! They were/are some of the most reliable and consistent limbs when Earl's "Magic Dust" were on them! He just had a Magic Touch!
We miss you Earl


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## SHADOW-MKII (Feb 19, 2009)

shooter10x said:


> Dont feel bad Borderbows, two formular limbs exploded at nationals so that means hoyts failure rate is twice that of Border.


Or you could say that 100% of Borders Formula RX limbs failed.

Just to be fair:wink:


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## G4RB4G3M4N (Feb 12, 2009)

*Limb Weight Question*



Borderbows said:


> . So, did anyone ask Butch Johnson with his F3 limbs, (lower limb) why his limbs failed at the US nationals aswell?


Boarder Bows:

I have a theory about that issue, that you said Butch's F3 lower limb had broken. I've seen pictures and been told that Butch had mounted a weight *onto* the inside of his F3 limb. As I could tell from the pictures, it was a milled piece of aluminum alongside one of his more traditional backweights attached to the riser. It's a hair above the spotting scope. 

Could the vibrations from this piece of metal hitting against the limb caused an excess of vibrations breaking the limb?

And thank you to Boarder Bows for sharing your knowledge with the likes of everyone else

Also, glad to see this talk of Hoyt's Formula Excel Riser is staying on topic... :angel:

Note: the picture was from a USA Archery Email send 6-3/2010, right next to the 126th USA National Championship Section of said email.


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*Rx*

I think I have one of these coming!
I can't wait to try it barebow! 




Greysides said:


> Follow your heart, it will keep you happy.
> 
> Your head may mention, that there's lot of good ILF limbs available, some may be better than the Formula series?
> If you want to buy second-hand, Therer will be more of the older limbs, and risers available. Also more of a market for second-hand ILF stuff.
> ...


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

G4RB4G3M4N said:


> Could the vibrations from this piece of metal hitting against the limb caused an excess of vibrations breaking the limb?


I think that if something was hitting against the limb, the vibration would drive the average archer nuts long before it broke anything. 

I think that your theory is wildly fanciful and that anyone actually seeing the failure would attribute it to conventional reasons.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> I'm rather convinced he did. And he managed to keep that hidden when he sold out to Easton. Because his SKY limbs had it too...


Here's to hoping that Jim Belcher found some dust in the boxes from SKY as I am picking up my new SKY limbs Monday. 

Back on topic I would really like to shoot an RX one of these days.


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

whiz-Oz said:


> and that anyone actually seeing the failure would attribute it to *conventional reasons*.


nice one!!!

lol


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