# Recurves, Shelf Verses Rest



## Tradhistorian (Aug 7, 2010)

I know the majority of of the guys here prefer a shelf to a rest but was wondering what the benefits to a shelf and the benefits to a rest were...especially when it came to the newer aluminum risers.

Thanks guys,
Brett


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## redneckone (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't know much about it myself, so far from an expert. I been shooting a recurve for about 4 days now haha. SO far i have only shot from the shelf with just a rug rest on it. Of course shooting feathers. I am not the most accurate but that is just all me. The arrows fly straight and true from the shelf every time unless i do something wrong. I am far from having arrows correctly spined to my bow and all that nonsense. The only reason i have heard or found so far to shoot from a rest is to be able to shoot vanes and they are suppose to be a little more forgiving to bad form.


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## bearauto11 (Apr 7, 2010)

It seems to me that most guys like the shelf to be more "traditional" and it may be able to keep the arrow from falling off a little better. 
Other guys seem to like the rest for less resistance on the arrow and possibly a little more accuracy. 
Seems to be completely personal choice. I like using the hair shelf on my bow simply because I think it looks cool. I made a bump on it with a piece of leather. I just acquired a new bow that I think I will try a rest on to see what it is like.
--Tom


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## Raider2000 (Oct 21, 2003)

Shooting off the shelf to many brings the arrow closer to the hand which many instictive & split vision shooters "myself included" like where as the elevated rest has to opesite {sp} effect but many gap shooters like the arrow away from their hand.

A elevated rest makes fine tuning a bow/arrow combination that much more easier being that in many cases you have some adjustability.

Both forms of arrow position is actually traditional because there are references to both in several historical texts & back in the 50's & 60's it was normal to see bows with & without a elevated rest.


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## Frisky (Nov 12, 2010)

I've shot both and good flight can be had with either, though as stated above, it's easier to achieve good flight with an elevated rest. The rest will prove more forgiving of shooting errors and I no longer will shoot off the shelf on any of my bows. I recommend a Hoyt Pro rest or Bear Weatherest or one of its clones. Rests are durable. I still shoot off one I installed in the late 70s.

Joe


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## Dry Feather (Sep 16, 2010)

True Instinctive shooters will always shoot off the shelf. I have shot bows both ways, and prefer shooting off the shelf, as I shoot instinctive, and an elevated rest is bothersome to me. I can shoot much tighter groups and be much more consistent shooting off the shelf. I guess, each style rest has a different benefit to each shooter. I always tell those starting, to try the shelf for a month or so, first. Its easier to add a rest later than remove one, especially on a wooden bow.


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## Night Wing (Feb 4, 2009)

I strictly bowhunt and I prefer shooting off the shelf. No arrow fall off.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

The shelf is a rest.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Trad - 

People new to this stuff ask the same question on a regular basis. Unfortunately some opinions from the "neo-trad" community are incredibly unfounded. 

Here are a couple to mull over. 

Shooting off the shelf:

1. Brings the arrow closer to the hand, making it easier for "instinctive shooting". That's great if you're a zen master and are actually aiming off your hand. Most of us use the the arrow as an aiming reference, whether we know it or not. The distance from the hand is irrelevant. 

2. Make it harder for the arrow to "fall off". Anything what will cause an arrow to fall off of a PROPERLY designed rest will also make it fall off the shelf too, only faster. Look at something like the Bear Weather Rest and you'll see why. 

3. Rests can fail. Sure, but the same adhesive that holds the rest is also used to hold the rug on the shelf. Both can fail. Want something that can't fail? Shoot off your knuckle - and see what happens to your consistency. 

Mike is correct, the shelf is a rest or sorts, but the analogy can be taken a step farther. A dull knife and a sharp knife are both knives, but which would you rather skin a deer with? That's the difference. 40 years ago (before compounds), no one in their right mind shot off the shelf. Removal of the strike plate and the rug where the first order of business when a new bow was bought. 

Look, try both and use whatever you like, just be careful about believing some of the BS you get on the Internet, especially when you don't know the guy doing the typing. 

Viper1 out.


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## bambam1 (Jul 22, 2007)

I prefer the shelf setup myself for several reasons. My comfy anchor point changes with a rest and my arrows hit lower, just preference. I hunt mostly so i don't change arrows much, once i get the shelf dialed in i know an errant shot is my fault on the release. My fidgity fingers won't leave an adjustable rest alone long enough to shoot a dozen. If you don't cant your bow when you shoot the arrow does have a better chance of coming off the rest as opposed to the shelf is my experience with the flipper rest anyway. I had three identical bows at one time all set up difft. to see which i liked the best and fit my shooting style, in the end i determined i'm a shelfer. If you are starting out, i would try diff. ways to see which suits ya best. Good luck.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

redneckone said:


> I am far from having arrows correctly spined to my bow and all that nonsense.


Nonsense?......Really?


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> _40 years ago (before compounds), no one in their right mind shot off the shelf. Removal of the strike plate and the rug where the first order of business when a new bow was bought._


Where did you get that piece of info? _Might_ have been true for those that were strictly paper shooters, but sure in hell was not true regarding bowhunters.


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## redneckone (Nov 2, 2010)

Bender said:


> Nonsense?......Really?


good lord quit being so anal..it is just a saying, of course it isnt nonsense, it is important to have everything tuned....


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## Raider2000 (Oct 21, 2003)

I have shot both ways & prefer the shelf probably because of my style of shooting or the simplicity but otherwise it is just a preference.

On the shelf & on the rest, many of the problems of arrows falling off is due to improper string hand position &/or string hand grip, either on the shelf or on the rest I can get to either full draw or as near to full draw as possible with up to near upside down bow position & I atribute that ability to a full hook grip on the string.

If the archer cants the bow, a off the shelf set up IMHO would be *easier to learn *to keep the shots within the kill or X zone than on a elevated rest.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Raider -



Raider2000 said:


> If the archer cants the bow, a off the shelf set up IMHO would be *easier to learn *to keep the shots within the kill or X zone than on a elevated rest.


Just curious as to why you would think that? Most beginners do consciously reference the arrow, whether that's a good thing or not is a different debate, so why would it matter? And btw - a beginner should NOT be canting a bow, just adds another variable.

Viper1 out.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

WindWalker said:


> Where did you get that piece of info? _Might_ have been true for those that were strictly paper shooters, but sure in hell was not true regarding bowhunters.


Windy,

Can you post that picture again of your "off-the-shelf" rest design. I remember it being somewhat elevated by a 1/2 piece of plastic tube, myself. Just wondering if some of us only consider "elevated" to mean what's commercially available and not also what we do to our bows to improve performance. If you move it up, you "elevate", no? If you elevated it, why?


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## Raider2000 (Oct 21, 2003)

Viper1 said:


> Raider -
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious as to why you would think that? Most beginners do consciously reference the arrow, whether that's a good thing or not is a different debate, so why would it matter? And btw - *a beginner should NOT be canting a bow, just adds another variable.*Viper1 out.


Agreed beginning archers should be shooting verticle till their comfort & proficiency level justifies experimentation but I'm referring to where the arrow being closer to the hand makes less change in left & right position compared to where it is elevated away from the hand.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Sanford:

What does _my_ using an elevated rest have to do with the price of tea? Because I do does not mean that I always have, or that Viper's claim that _"40 years ago (before compounds), no one in their right mind shot off the shelf. Removal of the strike plate and the rug where the first order of business when a new bow was bought"_ is a fact when in fact it is not.


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## Night Wing (Feb 4, 2009)

I've been bowhunting for 46 years. Started in 1964 when I was 14 years old. I'm now 60 years old. I was interested in bowhunting since I was 12 years old, but didn't have a bow. A friend of my father's was a bowhunter and he let me use his bow for my first bowhunt when I was 14 years old in 1964. It was a, 60", 40# Bear Kodiak recurve and I think the gentleman purchased the Kodiak in 1962. He let me use it for two months before I had to give it back to him. I practiced with it everyday during the month of November until I could hit anything out to 15 yards. I didn't arrow a deer during the month of December since no deer came within my range. Anyhow, when I was 15 years old, my dad bought me a 66", 35# Bear Polar which was considered an inexpensive recurve back then, but that is another story. 

Getting back on track, the Kodiak had a rug rest attached directly to the flat shelf with a leather strike plate and I shot it off the shelf since it came that way. It looked just like this one in the photo in the link below. 

http://www.archeryhistory.com/recurves/pics/bearkod62.jpg

Looks like I was one of those young bowhunters that wasn't in their right mind back in 1964 since I shot the Kodiak off the shelf with a rug rest then and I'm still doing it to this day, 46 years later with both of my Blacktails. I'm glad I'm a non-conformist.










BTW, I shot my Polar off the shelf too with a rug rest attached directly to the flat shelf with a leather strike plate.

Bottom line, if anyone is going to bowhunt with a recurve or longbow, shoot the arrows off the shelf with a rug rest or use an elevated rest and see which one you prefer and then go with your choice ..... and not someone else's choice.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

NW, et al - 

That's a great story, but I don't have the luxury of basing my recommendations solely on personal experience. As an instructor, I have to work with cumulative experience. Not "what works or worked for me or how I did it". Typically adding a simple rest improves consistency for beginning shooters and sharpens the level of tuning (and possibly accuracy) for more experienced types. There are always going to be exceptions, but the bottom line is and always has to be what gives most people the best chance of success and not what you or I like. 

Most bows in the 60's and 70's came with some type of rug on a flat shelf. Out of the 500 or so archers (more than half of which were successful bow hunters as well) I shot with in several clubs back then, I might recall less than 1/2 dozen who didn't switch to a rest of some sort before the first arrow left their bows. (And those 1/2 dozen guys frankly weren't very good.) Every archery company in existence back then sold several types of rests and we all used them. There was no reason not to, given that most cost about a buck or two at the time. 

No one is telling you or anyone else what THEY should do. But as an instructor, I have a responsibility to give folks who take what I say seriously the best chance of success - and that has to be based on facts, not feelings and it's been working pretty well so far. 

Viper1 out.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

WindWalker said:


> Sanford:
> 
> What does _my_ using an elevated rest have to do with the price of tea? Because I do does not mean that I always have, or that Viper's claim that _"40 years ago (before compounds), no one in their right mind shot off the shelf. Removal of the strike plate and the rug where the first order of business when a new bow was bought"_ is a fact when in fact it is not.


It's only one anecdotal observation of a bowhunter making a bowhunter's claim. If it's not a true statement regarding bowhunters making the choice to elevate, we have two questions: 1) Why did one bowhunter, who is "strictly" a bowhunter, choose elevation when the rest of the bowhunting crowd did not?; and 2) Why would this bowhunter think only "strictly" paper shooters did the same as he but bowhunters did not? It just seemed as though you were trying to argue two points, simultaneously. Had you been strictly a shelf-shooter, your bias would fit your statement better, but your bias here at AT is and has been for some bit of elevation in the rest.

Maybe you once did shoot strictly from the shelf for hunting but later made the switch and found it better. That would back Viper's claim but only mean that you were just late to the party. Leaving other bowhunters behind the curve?


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Sanford:

Your statement and questions are nonsensical and strictly argumentive based. How silly and disconnected from the facts anyone would have to be to presume that one or a few represent the mass. 

Considering that you have previously confessed that you are not a bowhunter and your implied experience in the sport was brief to the point of being meaningless, for you to debate the experienced and skilled bowhunters regarding bowhunting, especially with those from an era that must be of a time you only know about by reading history books or having someone from those times tell theirs stories, is a bit arrogant. Unless shelf vs. elevated rest was some odd regional thing and unknown to me, Viper is wrong and you are misled by believing he is correct.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Oh, Windy. In times past:

- previous poster's statement



> The truth is that the vast majority of shooters are hunters and couldn't care less that an elevated rest 'might' be a little more accurate.


- your reply 



> Did that come to you in a dream, or did you survey the vast majority of bowhunters?


Clearly, you then meant the vast majority of bowhunters and were not nit picking verbage, as when you have previously stated that as far back as 50 years ago, MANY were shooting off elevated rests. 

Now, you want to change positions just because Viper basically states the same thing you stated then. _ That's_ creating argument where none exists. And no, it ain't a bowhunter thing again. Save that "save" for folks who don't know any better and understand less about this sport than you.

Viper is consistent. Not argumentative enough to reverse positions just for the sake of argument.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

To reply to the OP's question, A rest may allow the use of arrows with vanes. If the riser is built for it, it allows the use of a plunger. Either the rest alone, or the rest in combination with a plunger may provide the shooter with greater accuracy and forgiveness. That is dependent on the shooter's skill level. Shooting off the shelf means there is less to go wrong. Worse comes to worse, if the rug falls off, the bow may still be shootable to some degree. If the rest falls off, you're done, period. Also the shelf can't become inadvertantly misadjusted as a rest and plunger set up can. Those aspects tend to make shooting off the shelf attractive to bowhunters using stickbows. (That may be why shooting off shelf is considered "Traditional") Shooting off the shelf does lower the arrow to the top of the bow hand. The advantage to that is it reduces the distance point of the arrow travels through an arc if the bow is rotated such as what happens when the bow is canted. (I think the term here would be "roll" as opposed to "pitch" or "yaw") When the arrow is close to the bow hand, for a certain number of degrees of cant (roll) the arrow point moves over only a few fractions of an inch. If the arrrow is elevated above the hand, for the same degrees of cant (roll) the arrow point moves over considerably more.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Tradhistorian said:


> I know the majority of of the guys here prefer a shelf to a rest but was wondering what the benefits to a shelf and the benefits to a rest were...especially when it came to the newer aluminum risers.
> 
> Thanks guys,
> Brett


Benefits can be based on personal experience or they can be based on a general population.

Generally speaking...an elevated rest can improve an archer's consistantcy and accuracy. The amount of improvement can be between 1% - 5%.

Putting an elevated rest is not a guarentee for improving consistantcy and accuracy but it is more forgiving which lesson the effects of shooter error.

The benefts of shooting off the shelf are generally seen by the bowhunting community because of a couple of things. Shooting off the shelf gives the arrow less of a chance of being moved out of position while stalking or just moving your bow around with an arrow nocked than an elevated rest...generally speaking.

Many trad bowhunters also aim Instinctively and having the arrow closer to the hand when shooting off the shelf can make the aiming process easier or more natural for the Instinctive shooter...generally speaking.

Ray :shade:


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## Orion Major (Oct 20, 2006)

Dry Feather said:


> True Instinctive shooters will always shoot off the shelf.


This statement is very possibly the most erroneous thing said on here in weeks. Hope you were just "funnin' :wink:"


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Sanford...the more you dig to try and find something that is contradictive, the more foolish you appear. If the subject is more bowhunting related than paper shooting, you need to just enjoy the ride and leave the driving to us (bowhunters).

Your copy and paste quotes are greatly out of context regarding my contention with Viper's statement that _"40 years ago (before compounds), no one in their right mind shot off the shelf. Removal of the strike plate and the rug where the first order of business when a new bow was bought."_ His claim is ridiculous and was/is not true.

As for your out-of-context paste and copy, the statement was made regarding your use of the term "majority," a common trait of yours... using universal terms when you do not know what the actual numbers are or have a reasonable experience and exposure to be able to make an educated presumption.... such as the sport of bowhunting....as you did when you stated _"The truth is that *the vast majority of shooters *are hunters and couldn't care less that an elevated rest 'might' be a little more accurate."_ 

That might be true *today,* which I highly doubt, but without facts I cannot say your assertion is or is not true...today. However, it's an elitist belief and statement to imply that bowhunters are a bunch of "shade tree" shooters that care less about obtaining the best performance and accuracy.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

WW,

It wasn't me you were conversing with. It was a debate between a couple of bowhunters. Just a conversation I remember about the efficacy of elevated rests, but I wasn't a passenger on that particular ride.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> _Just a conversation I remember about the efficacy of elevated rests, but I wasn't a passenger on that particular ride._


You didn't remember crap. You went on a childish search to hopefully find a one-up. Then you hoped the out-of-context copy and paste would fly. I was born at night, but not just last night.


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## Dry Feather (Sep 16, 2010)

WW & San, I think you both are just wanting to argue, and neither one of you really answer the others questions. I can, but wish to stay out of this one. Getting way out of hand here.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> I can,


Go for it!


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Dry Feather,

Windy and I are fine. We always get along good but say our piece, and we just "type" loudly to each other.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Dry...you are apparently not privy to the rest of the story.

Ya see; a long time ago Sandy had a dream of being a bowhunter, but the sight of blood made him faint and he is frightened by the dark. But he still pursues his long-lost dreams by pretending. In order that he not lose touch with reality, I and others occasionally need to give him a reality check.


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

Tradhistorian:



> _I know the majority of of the guys here prefer a shelf to a rest but was wondering what the benefits to a shelf and the benefits to a rest were_


Just so you know your question has not been deep-sixed; you can find numerous stated pros and cons regarding shelf vs. elevated rest, but the true answer lies with the individual. Whatever method works _consistently_ best for you, then that is what you use.


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## Dry Feather (Sep 16, 2010)

WindWalker said:


> Go for it!


No thanks.... you two are talking enough to 20 guys. I just feel sorry for the guy who asked the question. Most other forums I belong to, this thread would have been locked a long time ago. Just not used to all the arguing.


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## Frisky (Nov 12, 2010)

I can say that 37 years ago, I used the piece of leather that came on my 76er as a rest. After about a week, I junked it and bought a Hoyt stick-on rest and never looked back. Many years later, I bought two used bows that came with rug rests. I did ok off the shelf but replaced them with elevated rests and did even better. For me, the elevated rest is superior all around. A good one will hold your arrow in place much better than a shelf. I advise new shooters to try the elevated rest right away. They'll nearly always do better. 

I agree with both WW and Viper regarding the 40 years ago comment (I can't lose here). 40 years ago, bowhunters in the know probably did junk their rug rests and go with an elevated rest. Many bowhunters weren't that serious and probably stuck with the rug rest until compounds came out and then they bought those, looking for an edge. I knew quite a few bowhunters who purchased bows in the 70s and left them unaltered from what they had on them. However, most couldn't hit the broad side of a bull's butt with a scoop shovel let alone an arrow!

Joe


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> Just not used to all the arguing.


More like heated debate. 

The bottom line was well expressed several months ago by a person I do not recall when he said (paraphrasing) _"If I want to learn how to drive a 18-wheeler, don't send a plumber to teach me."_


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## bambam1 (Jul 22, 2007)

There again, i think it boils down to preference and what you intend to use it for. But, for those that say you can't shoot as accurately off the shelf i would have to disagree. I think you can get there quicker with a rest with the adjustability, though it can be done off the shelf.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

WindWalker said:


> _"If I want to learn how to drive a 18-wheeler, don't send a plumber to teach me."_


Some drivers don't need to learn to "drive", they already know that. Drive is all they do. Some drivers know how to "drive" too and know what's "under their hood". They know their craft in the whole. The one's looking to be "taught" to drive, well, they should rightly stick to driving and leave the technicals to others - others being ones who know the "under hood" stuff, driver or not, both who already are capable of pushing pedals and turning wheels.:smile:


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## WindWalker (Jan 23, 2005)

> _Some drivers don't need to learn to "drive", they already know that. Drive is all they do. Some drivers know how to "drive" too and know what's "under their hood". They know their craft in the whole. The one's looking to be "taught" to drive, well, they should rightly stick to driving and leave the technicals to others - others being ones who know the "under hood" stuff, driver or not, both who already are capable of pushing pedals and turning wheels._



The crux of the message hidden within the ramblings is that those (anyone) whose primary pursuit is bowhunting and/or strictly bowhunting related shooting, are bumblers who perform in the shade of trees, and lack the proper and acceptable knowledge and finesse to properly tune and shoot a bow; in need of a haircut and a bath. 

Can anyone say "ELITIST?"


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I have hunted with both, killed deer with both. I also enjoy shooting 3D, so I keep my hunting bows setup for 3D, off the shelf. 
The thing that trad police cite when talking about rests is moving parts. A rest being elevated is not really an issue as i see it.


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## rhi (Jan 3, 2014)

what a stunning bow!


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I like off the shelf and always have. Easy's Blacktail would look awful with an elevated rest and so would my Wes Wallace Mentor and they wouldn't shoot an iota better.


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## Al_D (Jan 6, 2014)

Still a newbie here, but thanks to Viper1's recommendation in his book I picked up a Bear Weather rest for my recurve and have noticed a significant improvement in my accuracy because of it.


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## mhlbdonny (Jul 15, 2008)

WindWalker said:


> Sanford:
> 
> What does _my_ using an elevated rest have to do with the price of tea? Because I do does not mean that I always have, or that Viper's claim that _"40 years ago (before compounds), no one in their right mind shot off the shelf. Removal of the strike plate and the rug where the first order of business when a new bow was bought"_ is a fact when in fact it is not.


I was there 40 years ago. You are wrong and Viper is right.


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## FORESTGUMP (May 14, 2008)

mhlbdonny said:


> I was there 40 years ago. You are wrong and Viper is right.




Nope, you are wrong, WindWalker is right and he was there 40 years before you.:wink: Don't believe it? Just ask him. Oh wait, that was four years ago and WindWalker doesn't post here anymore. 
But, a nice walk down memory lane. Saw posts by lots of folks who no longer hang around here. Some of them I miss and some I don't. But it's always amusing that some new guy finds an old thread, in this case a very old thread, and revives it as if it was still going on four years later. Actually, the subject is still being debated from time to time, just newer threads with some new participants.


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## p508 (Mar 20, 2012)

I do a LOT of shooting-handguns, rifles, shotguns and archery -archery is my favorite . The opinions you get in the other shooting sports will leave you talking to yourself sometimes but archery really seems to win the prize for distortions of reality. During the 70's I was told by an archery "expert" that I should swap my Bear Kodiak ( which had an elevated rest, berger button and stab ) for a Bear Alaskan compound because it was so fast that a deer couldn't jump the string. Seems that things haven't changed much since then


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## webster2 (Nov 24, 2013)

Folks do like to fluff up their feathers and strut their stuff' alot in these threads. Happens on all the web sites (must be something in the water). The irrefutable 'facts' and personal exchanges eventually get kinda' silly. I suppose that's what makes the topics so interesting...but annoying and frustrating, too. 

It seems the biggest point of conflict on lots of threads originates from old school vs. new school trains of thought about traditional archery. Maybe there should be separate '*Traditional Archery Old School*' and '*Traditional Archery New School *' sections...to at least keep the warring factions in their own comfort zones. 

Calming down egos and cockfights sure is a dirty thankless job. Thank goodness my own rants and baseless tirades are always right on target. :angel4:


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## 257 roberts (Jul 31, 2006)

I'm just getting back into trad shooting, this thread was fun,( I've been shooting bows since the late sixties, started with a Ben Pearson fiberglass bow then went to a compound) I bought a 35#Sage and the book " Shooting the Stick Bow" and reading it like the bible and so far so good got my bow/arrows set up like the book suggests including a REST... till last Thursday I went into a pawn shop and there was a "new" 60's Darton Hunter for a $100.00 I walked out the door and only spent $60.00, the bow is AWESOME its a 45# and I'm shooting off the shelf using 5/16 Port Oxford arrows...hell yes ..just shoot and have fun that's whats its all about!


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## Midnatt264 (Jan 15, 2014)

Personal preference. I started off-the-shelf with a weak youth bow back in the day - you had to cant it a bit to keep the arrow on, so I learned that way. Also, no sights, pegs, peeps, doo-dads or plungers. You pull back the string, aim and release. Repeat, many MANY times, and eventually you'll feel a repeatable FORM to it (some things work, others don't). I run Off-the-shelf now - and will submit that it IS more prone to accuracy problems - but it IS more instinctive. I prefer OTS, but if you were to give me a bow with a proper rest and sights, I'd have an easier time scoring with it I think. 

A RESTED bow removes VARIABLES, and since it can "hook" and "keep" the arrow on the riser better, it is more FORGIVING to shoot. That's what Viper was getting at - as an Instructor, he needs to have a regimen of items and techniques that are both PROVEN and REPEATABLE to ALL Audiences, new or experienced. New bow shooters need a concrete, repeatable basis so they can practice the basics without distractions or the freedom to adopt potentially bad habits. Likewise, in the Competitive world, where EVERYTHING is so strictly measured, there is very little room for error - if you aren't "feeling the shot", you need a set of concrete techniques and technologies to back up on, which means a bow that will keep the arrow in the same place each time every time, sights that are equally sturdy and repeatable, and a draw/release tool/technique that takes the guesswork out of the equation.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Try both, do whatever you prefer. Just remember that you will have to adjust your nocking point, and re-tune.


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## nw.primitive (Jan 11, 2012)

Yeah I think the only right answer is to try both (a couple times). I'm using the setup I didn't think I'd prefer. And it took me a couple trys to get it set up and dialed in to where the benefits were clear. Who knows, I will probably switch back again someday.


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## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

I guess since I was there back in the early 60's shooting recurves..I can have a say too..

Yes..people were tired of shooting off shelfs..let's face facts..Getting decent feathers and glues wasn't like today..not at all. ..and with the advent of consistent pliable plastic vanes..the tide turned in favor of elevated rest.

I know the first advertising that came out for the Center Rest pushed this...and since many with wooden risers couldn't use one since they weren't drilled and tapped to accept them..stick ons became the norm. This pushed early bowyers like Earl Hoyt..and the Wilson Brothers andseveral others offer more risers that were drilled for them.

One other thing...feathers get wet...and how many here remember what we went through to keep them dry quiet and shootable...another reason for getting off the shelf and onto a rest...Then...a funny contraption came out...it was called a compound..and that drove the elevated rest even further...

Trad shooters today just dont have a clue how good they have it as compared to back then with equipment choices..We have it great...now...

When Earl built my recurve. .wood risers were coming back in favor and being pushed with new glues..laminates..glass..I new what I wanted..and that was a metal riser with all needed holes drilled..stabilizer bushings..to be able to hunt with vanes..He built it for me..and I still use it....but then..you paid for this option. .

Sorry for the rant

Mac


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