# Face Contact on String



## Mahly

At first glance, the less the better.
However, I have seen many GREAT, World class shooters with a LOT of face contact.
I would suggest trying for as little as possible, but if that leave you with some contact, it's likely not the end of the world.
Keep it consistent, and check your tune to make sure it's not affecting your arrow flight.


----------



## ron w

I think the issue boils down to whether the string is truly "infront of the face" or somewhat to the side of the face. everyone has degrees of this condition. by opinion, the more in front of the face the string is, the less influence the degree of contact will have.


----------



## montigre

When at full draw, there is very little pressure being applied to the harness (string and cables) just imagine a bow in a press to get an idea of this. So, with that in mind, with the harness in such a relaxed state as it is in full draw, ANY contact with the face, shirt, beer belly, if that is applicable, can adversely affect the arrow's point of impact when the shot is released. 

While many top shooters do have a lot of facial contact, they have also taken the time to tune their bow to be more forgiving of this--however, it still occasionally bites them which could be evidenced by watching the recent LAS videos. It is much easier overall to just minimize contact or eliminate it completely, if possible.


----------



## Lazarus

montigre said:


> It is much easier overall to just minimize contact or eliminate it completely, if possible.


You mean like this? Is this the universally accepted way to eliminate it completely? :teeth:









In all seriousness, it seemed in vogue here a few months ago to talk about "face contact." I did a lot of toying around with using different levels of face contact. I did it to try to judge it's adverse affects and I just really couldn't see that it made that much difference. Some, maybe, but it wasn't the problem that it seemed it was being painted up to be. Maybe I just didn't do a good job of testing it's effects. 

To attempt to answer the original question or how much is too much? I guess if it's painful or distracting it's too much.


----------



## montigre

lazarus said:


> View attachment 2139533


:roflmao:


----------



## SonnyThomas

Face contact should be little if not void. BUT! 5 time World Archery Champion Jolella Bates seemed to crush the string into her cheek. Lost track of her and then 3D Times was the magazine doing a covering back then, early 2000. Up until then the "grape vine" had Jolella having a almost Jeff Hopkins type contract. She was injured around 2003 or 2004. Can't remember her shooting after that. Shooter she be! Jolella is the first female archer to take Africa's Big Five......

Vic Wunderle. Lord! You can find pictures of him crushing his nose with the bow string.

The big thing about face contact, don't push or lean into the bow string...Easy test. Draw a bow fully and twist the riser CAREFULLY! The next I'd use a lower poundage bow; Grip bow string by the hand (not fingers). At about half draw and drawing slowing, twist your hand 180 degrees. Yep just about "tie a knot" in the bow string. Robert Ragsdale shows it done. I have the picture somewhere in my nightmare picture collection.


----------



## redman

Griv has a lot of info on string contact


----------



## Padgett

To me if I am at full draw and somebody was to put their finger on my string somewhere and press on it a little I am going to hit poorly.

So to me if you come to anchor and the amount of string pressure into your nose and cheek is exactly the same every single shot you will be just fine but if you are a person that set up your bow with little to no face contact but under pressure you really dig in nice and tight to be sure that you make that great shot they the arrow is going to hit poorly because you are basically pushing on a string differently.


----------



## shiftydog

For me, I think it's about feeling comfortable. I like the extra point of contact when I'm at anchor. Now is it exactly the same every time? I like to think so, but it's hard to say. Again, once my scores improve a little more perhaps I'll have a better idea if it is affecting things negatively. After indoor season (post Vegas) I may try and tweak things a little. A kisser button may be the answer.


----------



## Padgett

I know that for me the moment I put a nose kisser on my string I improved a bunch, when I come to anchor I settle in and the nose kisser makes me perfect the moment my nose moves into position and my anchor on my jaw is a non factor in my thoughts. Before the nose kisser I came to anchor and the first thing was to feel my knuckle into my jaw to that anchor spot and then I touched my nose to the string and then I had to line up my peep. Now the moment I touch my nose to the string next to the nose kisser everything is perfect and my shot begins much smoother.


----------



## shiftydog

What do you use for a nose kisser? Speed nock?


----------



## rohpenguins

GRIV did a thing of the week on this subject that was very informative


----------



## Padgett

I use a eliminator button from AEP that is tapered out to the edge and I set it so it touches the top of my nose. My nose still touches the string just like normal but the kisser allows me to touch my string to my nose and then move my anchor down until the kisser rests on the top edge of my nose and it simply lines everything up perfectly.

I personally don't anchor behind my jaw and my index knuckle is on the side of my jaw bone more than behind so the string is slightly away from my face just enough that I would have to use one of those really big kissers and I don't like them. I tried this nose kisser method with serving in the beginning and really liked it but at the AEP booth I saw these eliminator type buttons and they are really nice for this application.

I think the eliminator buttons that come on a bow tech string would also work just fine or the ones that reo wilde uses for the corner of his mouth.


----------



## redman

great info


----------



## Padgett

On the AEP website go to accessories and go through the pages until you see the Pro-tech buttons and you can see what I use for my nose kisser.


----------



## shiftydog

Thanks. I'll tinker around with something like this in the coming weeks.


----------



## erdman41

Higher holding weight will lesson the effects of face contact.


----------



## ron w

true, but we are constrained to the holding weight that our bows produce under the normal limits of the cam's profile and the small range of variable, that string tuning allows.. beyong that, good form has to be what produces the least influence.


----------



## redman

I am shooting the best with no nose on string at all


----------



## Bobmuley

For indoor or fixed-distance shooting I think one can get away with consistent face pressure. It's those hills, and mixing up yardages that can create more problems for all but the uber-experienced.


----------



## huteson2us2

Do you have any pain on your face when you shoot? I see people that has so much face contact that they bleed and have to put band-aids on. I watched a girl shoot last weekend that had a red raw mark on her face after shooting. If not, I would not worry about it. When I have a beard, I find hairs stuck in my string. Now that should have some effect on how the bow groups.


----------



## *SWITCH

IME its less about contact and more about how much pressure is involved. A little contact is OK, a bit more than a little is still OK, but when there's pressure deforming the string....maybe not OK. I recently increased d loop length very slightly to minimise contact, as I did have a little pressure on the string. I'm shooting better and not noticed any difference in comfort, however I have made other changes so can't say its down the the dloop change alone ;0)


----------



## lees

I've found that I can't have any. The only contact is a light touch on the nose for anchoring purposes, and that's it. I otherwise lightly anchor on the side of my chin in the "V" between the thumb and index finger. If I do have any contact with the string I'm one of those guys who gets lefts and rights. But I see lots of shooters who have mondo face contact and shoot awesome (watch Kendall Woody for example). 

I bet Bobmuley is on to something about it when shooting outdoors, tho. That didn't occur to me...

lee.


----------



## whiz-Oz

The good old "face contact" topic. 

There are some basic concepts to accuracy. Consistency is the main one of them. 

If you can consistently place your face on the string, it's a skill you have to develop because variations in it will absolutely affect your ability to shoot accurately all the time. 

People always quote "Archer X is awesome and they have face contact!"

Well, yeah. But archer Y is also awesome and they have NO face contact, so it's a stupid argument to put forward. 

I decided that it was easier to not have to develop perfectly consistent face contact by developing no face contact with the string at all.

It's just a method of eliminating something that can possibly go wrong.


----------



## Wood

No pro here but my best shots are usually when my string just grazes my mustash. Thinking about shaving the beard though cause my new release (Abyss) likes to pull hairs.


----------



## *SWITCH

whiz-Oz said:


> The good old "face contact" topic.
> 
> There are some basic concepts to accuracy. Consistency is the main one of them.
> 
> If you can consistently place your face on the string, it's a skill you have to develop because variations in it will absolutely affect your ability to shoot accurately all the time.
> 
> People always quote "Archer X is awesome and they have face contact!"
> 
> Well, yeah. But archer Y is also awesome and they have NO face contact, so it's a stupid argument to put forward.
> 
> I decided that it was easier to not have to develop perfectly consistent face contact by developing no face contact with the string at all.
> 
> It's just a method of eliminating something that can possibly go wrong.


Agree with some of this, however, it is possible to have so little amount of contact that it has no significant effect on anything as long as its light. More so if on front of face/nose not so much if at side.

Place your finger on the tip of your nose or front of face, no matter how light you press you can still feel it enough to use as another reference without it deforming or effecting the string at all.

There may also be more tolerance for front contact than you think, that's why you see some of the pro's doing it, if there was a chance it could foul their shot they would not do it i'm sure.


----------



## whiz-Oz

The issue of having light contact comes with a few considerations. 
How do you quantise "light" contact. 
The entire idea is to eliminate variables that are unnecessary vs reducing how variable something is. 

At what point does an archer in a stressful situation become aware that they've been throwing shots because what was a string touch is now a string touch plus some extra? 

Actual professional preparation for things that matter, like military operations or high performance critical functionality comes with a certain mindset. 

It has never failed to amuse me that the archery community largely refuses to adopt this philosophy. The only people who have it are the ones who are at the very height of their performance.


----------



## noklok

Today’s 75-90% let off bows are effected by string contact much more than the 65% cams. Put your bow in a draw board and manipulate your string with you fingers and it will open your eyes as to how inconsistent pressures could effect the string. I had to retrain myself to pressure less. Took a bit but the sooner the better.


----------



## *SWITCH

whiz-Oz said:


> At what point does an archer in a stressful situation become aware that they've been throwing shots because what was a string touch is now a string touch plus some extra? QUOTE]
> 
> I agree with the whole eliminating possible variables, but i'm saying that front contact on the face may not be a variable, afaik you or no one has tested this on a hooter shooter and published the results, the tolerance could be massive or large enough to render it not a variable at all.
> 
> Top archers particularly will analyse their shot for any variable that could have an adverse effect, if they have bad shot when everything was done correctly they will track down the cause. because that could cost them massively at a tourney. They have the means to test for contact from light to heavy so must have deemed it to have no effect, at least for them.
> 
> Also the amount of energy and speed pushing that string forward could be overwhelming with regard front face/nose contact for anyone.
> 
> Not disagreeing particularly just saying it may also not be a variable.
> 
> @noklok, yeh you can manipulate the string with your finger's, but how do you know this has any significant effect on the arrows impact point?
> 
> ,


----------



## whiz-Oz

*SWITCH said:


> I agree with the whole eliminating possible variables, but i'm saying that front contact on the face may not be a variable, afaik you or no one has tested this on a hooter shooter and published the results, the tolerance could be massive or large enough to render it not a variable at all.


Maybe you might want to read carefully what you've written before you hit the button to post it. 

Ask yourself "Does me posting this make it really obvious that I have no idea what a variable is?" for a start.

Then maybe go and spend a few hours reading about force vectors. 
Then think about the acceleration rate of a compound string at full draw, compared to any other bow BECAUSE OF THE LET OFF. 

Do you really think that moving the string, which holds the peep, that thing which is the reference for the sight plane, at the extreme end of the sight radius, won't have a significant effect on the arrow's impact point?

This entire post of yours illustrates EXACTLY the second last sentence in my previous post.


----------



## *SWITCH

whiz-Oz said:


> Maybe you might want to read carefully what you've written before you hit the button to post it.
> 
> Ask yourself "Does me posting this make it really obvious that I have no idea what a variable is?" for a start.
> 
> Then maybe go and spend a few hours reading about force vectors.
> Then think about the acceleration rate of a compound string at full draw, compared to any other bow BECAUSE OF THE LET OFF.
> 
> Do you really think that moving the string, which holds the peep, that thing which is the reference for the sight plane, at the extreme end of the sight radius, won't have a significant effect on the arrow's impact point?
> 
> This entire post of yours illustrates EXACTLY the second last sentence in my previous post.


well I haven't said for sure either way, maybe its you that should read my posts more carefully before you get all hurt because you have made your mind up on the subject so it must be fact, even though you have no evidence of it.

well if I move my sight out or in 1 setting which is quarter of an inch, my impact point is not effected, so a little contact with no pressure on the string won't won't effect it, at least for my set up and I suspect a lot of archers. shooting 60% let off with about 25lbs holding weight maybe a factor i suppose.

So it may not be a variable for some, as point is once you have eliminated a variable, it ceases to be one. 

Despite your arrogance you can't possible know for sure that contact has any effect on arrow impact point for everybody. 

Oh the force vector thing is hilarious, mentioning something complex in the mere hope that it will provide proof your right. Thanks for the giggle.

We should agree to disagree until any real evidence is presented.


----------



## *SWITCH

@shiftydog, To get back to the OP, just watched nimes and all the compound finalist 8 men/women are using either one or 2 points of face/nose contact, most using a button of some kind and plenty of 148-150 max scores. Most of them are using this method some with slightly more pressure than others. Indeed most of the international top men women are using contact at all tournys. Which suggests as long as its just light its not going have a significant effect. 

If your comfortable, which is more important, and not bending the string looks like you are good to go.

To be clear for others, i've always been talking about contact being ok, but not when there is enough pressure to deform the string significantly.


----------



## cbrunson

So simple minded me is thinking...

80% let off on a 60 lb bow is 12 lbs. 

So I picture a 12 lb bowling ball hanging on a string. That is if the archer adds zero additional pulling force into the stops. 

You seriously think the soft skin on your cheek or the tip of your nose is going to bend that string? Within 1”-2” of the attachment point? I know, I know, we’ve all heard and seen a certain pro shooter talk about it. But I personally think it has more to do with pivoting off your face, or pulling into your face, either of which pulls your alignment off when you are staring down the X, and you don’t notice. 

As long as you keep your alignment straight through the shot and pull straight back, face contact will not be a problem. JMHO


----------



## Bobmuley

cbrunson said:


> So simple minded me is thinking...
> 
> 80% let off on a 60 lb bow is 12 lbs.
> 
> So I picture a 12 lb bowling ball hanging on a string.


More like a 12 lb bowling ball hanging from two strings...each holding 6 pounds.


----------



## cbrunson

Bobmuley said:


> More like a 12 lb bowling ball hanging from two strings...each holding 6 pounds.


I still think people are grasping at straws on this one.


----------



## whiz-Oz

*SWITCH said:


> well I haven't said for sure either way, maybe its you that should read my posts more carefully before you get all hurt because you have made your mind up on the subject so it must be fact, even though you have no evidence of it.
> 
> well if I move my sight out or in 1 setting which is quarter of an inch, my impact point is not effected, so a little contact with no pressure on the string won't won't effect it, at least for my set up and I suspect a lot of archers. shooting 60% let off with about 25lbs holding weight maybe a factor i suppose.
> 
> So it may not be a variable for some, as point is once you have eliminated a variable, it ceases to be one.
> 
> Despite your arrogance you can't possible know for sure that contact has any effect on arrow impact point for everybody.
> 
> Oh the force vector thing is hilarious, mentioning something complex in the mere hope that it will provide proof your right. Thanks for the giggle.
> 
> We should agree to disagree until any real evidence is presented.


Force vectors are complex? Maybe you might remember that thing called "alignment" which archers talk about. That's force vectors. 
I'd draw you a picture, but crayon isn't that effective with electronic media. 

You might want to change DEFIANT UNTIL THE END to ETERNALLY IGNORANT if you truly can't work out that face contact forces aren't exactly in one plane because:
1. Faces aren't dead flat.
2. Strings forces aren't perpendicular to a face
3. Sight planes aren't aligned to ANY forces in a bow. 

If you don't fundamentally understand anything that is happening, other than pointing out that it doesn't seem to affect everyone, you don't have the comprehension skills to be involved in the discussion. 
You're just pointing at the exception and saying "See, it doesn't matter" and ignoring the people who have issues. 

Please, continue to keep demonstrating that you truly have no idea what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure that you're not exactly establishing your credentials.


----------



## *SWITCH

whiz-Oz said:


> Force vectors are complex? Maybe you might remember that thing called "alignment" which archers talk about. That's force vectors.
> I'd draw you a picture, but crayon isn't that effective with electronic media.
> 
> You might want to change DEFIANT UNTIL THE END to ETERNALLY IGNORANT if you truly can't work out that face contact forces aren't exactly in one plane because:
> 1. Faces aren't dead flat.
> 2. Strings forces aren't perpendicular to a face
> 3. Sight planes aren't aligned to ANY forces in a bow.
> 
> If you don't fundamentally understand anything that is happening, other than pointing out that it doesn't seem to affect everyone, you don't have the comprehension skills to be involved in the discussion.
> You're just pointing at the exception and saying "See, it doesn't matter" and ignoring the people who have issues.
> 
> Please, continue to keep demonstrating that you truly have no idea what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure that you're not exactly establishing your credentials.


Um....Back in the real world....

Laughable, I understand that you don't understand or accept anything that might contradict your unproven theories/ramblings, probably because your whole world would come tumbling down.

we can look at what the best are doing as they have probably dealt with the issue extensively, much more than most of us are able to. Real world results would suggest its not a factor.

The rest of us are trying to help the OP, you well i'm not sure what you are trying to do other than force your excessive "I learned this stuff so it must be relevant here" theories which seem like grade A b**s*** to me.

oh and whats wrong with drawing with crayons? I like crayons


----------



## whiz-Oz

*SWITCH said:


> Um....Back in the real world....
> 
> Laughable, I understand that you don't understand or accept anything that might contradict your unproven theories/ramblings, probably because your whole world would come tumbling down.


So, back in the real world, have you actually made any contributions to archery science, involving shooting machines and peer reviewed published data?

You bought it up. 

You're also the one using "probably" and "suggest" and are cherry picking your data by referring to "the top shooters". 

This neatly ignores all the archers who do have consistency issues which seperate their performance from the ones who don't. 
This is called Survivorship bias. 
Why don't you attempt to learn something? Here's a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias


----------



## noklok

*SWITCH said:


> whiz-Oz said:
> 
> 
> 
> At what point does an archer in a stressful situation become aware that they've been throwing shots because what was a string touch is now a string touch plus some extra? QUOTE]
> 
> I agree with the whole eliminating possible variables, but i'm saying that front contact on the face may not be a variable, afaik you or no one has tested this on a hooter shooter and published the results, the tolerance could be massive or large enough to render it not a variable at all.
> 
> Top archers particularly will analyse their shot for any variable that could have an adverse effect, if they have bad shot when everything was done correctly they will track down the cause. because that could cost them massively at a tourney. They have the means to test for contact from light to heavy so must have deemed it to have no effect, at least for them.
> 
> Also the amount of energy and speed pushing that string forward could be overwhelming with regard front face/nose contact for anyone.
> 
> Not disagreeing particularly just saying it may also not be a variable.
> 
> @noklok, yeh you can manipulate the string with your finger's, but how do you know this has any significant effect on the arrows impact point?
> 
> ,
> 
> 
> 
> Testing
Click to expand...


----------



## Bobmuley

*SWITCH said:


> @shiftydog, To get back to the OP, just watched nimes and all the compound finalist 8 men/women are using either one or 2 points of face/nose contact,....


While you see them with two points I see them "grimacing", "smiling", and other contortions during anchor to minimize contact.


----------



## *SWITCH

cbrunson said:


> So simple minded me is thinking...
> 
> 80% let off on a 60 lb bow is 12 lbs.
> 
> So I picture a 12 lb bowling ball hanging on a string. That is if the archer adds zero additional pulling force into the stops.
> 
> You seriously think the soft skin on your cheek or the tip of your nose is going to bend that string? Within 1”-2” of the attachment point? I know, I know, we’ve all heard and seen a certain pro shooter talk about it. But I personally think it has more to do with pivoting off your face, or pulling into your face, either of which pulls your alignment off when you are staring down the X, and you don’t notice.
> 
> As long as you keep your alignment straight through the shot and pull straight back, face contact will not be a problem. JMHO


A good point, and good on Bobmuley for "testing".

yeh they do move their mouth around don't they Bob, just looking for the right spot I spose, which likely means as you say lightest possible contact.

How are you testing? you going to use a wipe board and a bunch of equations Bob +0) like the whizer, or something practical showing real world results.

I also have access to a hooter shooter sometimes so will endeavour to try something out.

Whizer i'm done reading your posts of irrelevant information, theoretical science/survivorship bias lmao, hilarious as they are.

we are archers trying to help archers with practical advice that they are free to do what they want with, not scientists trying to impose their unproven theories as fact.

so try and stay on topic, instead of just throwing condensation around, my guess is you have "form" on this and other forums. Mods should do us all a favour and boot you off.


----------



## whiz-Oz

So what you're saying now is that you don't actually have any ability to refute what I've said, so you're just going to try the old character assassination technique? 

This is a sign that you're truly out of your depth. Anything else that you write will be more examples of it. 

So, this is all a bit too sciencey for you huh? 
Okay. How about some math?

Let's say you're shooting a compound at 50 meters. The 10 ring is 80mm wide. (3.15 inches)

What is a typical distance between peep and scope? I happen to know that mine is 750mm

If I move my peep 1mm to the right at full draw, .750mm AWAY FROM THE BOW, the sight plane will have moved exactly the same distance in the opposite direction. 

This is some pretty basic math. If you balance a rectangular ruler on your finger, it should balance right near the middle. This means that if you push one end down an inch, the other end will rise an inch. 

Are you keeping up with this theory, or do you want to go check it for yourself? I can wait. 

I'm just turning the ruler sideways. 

Because my sight radius (that's the term we people who do marksmanship related activities use to say "The distance between the front and rear sight") is .75 of a meter, I can divide 50m by .75 to get the distance on the target that the sight axis will travel if I move the peep. 

50 divided by .75 is 66.667. So if I move the peep sight an entire millimeter (0.0394 inches) to the left, that will make 66.667 mm difference in point of aim at the target end. That would be 2.625 inches. 

If you shift this by 40mm, you're an entire scoring ring out. How much distance is that at the peep? 

Easy. 
We now divide 40 by 66.667, we get 0.5999

So, if I disturb the peep by 0.599 mm (0.023 of an inch) I'm going to drop a point, but only if I'm otherwise absolutely perfect.

If anyone wants to measure their own sight radius, you can see how it works for yourself. 

Then you can have even more fun by putting your bow on a draw board and seeing how hard it is to move your peep at full draw. See how much force it requires to move your peep sideways enough to make an entire ring of movement at the target. 

If you already have your face on the string, just remember that you need to constantly put exactly the same amount of sideways movement and forwards movement on the string for every single shot and get it to within 23 thou (if you have a bow with the same sight radius as mine) or you'll be losing points. 

As *SWITCH has pointed out, some people can shoot accurately like this. Other people can't. 

You'll note that the people who can do this and shoot accurately are the people who are winning. Is this a good observation? 

Well, Bill Gates dropped out of College and for a time there was the richest man on the planet. So obviously, you should drop out of college, because that's what Bill did and look how it worked out for him. 

Look at all the successful college dropouts who become the richest man on earth! How many are there? 

One. 

Look at how many dropped out and didn't become the richest man on earth. 

Hundreds of millions of them. Every single other person who dropped out of College in the history of the earth. 

So if you aren't shooting high scores and you've got face contact which isn't perfect, maybe you should concentrate on developing absolutely consistent face contact. 

Or, have none, so you don't need to worry about it. 

If you've been following along, you might now think about why it's important to have the same angle of twist on your release if you run a regular D loop. 

But *SWITCH doesn't have to reply, because he's not reading my posts and probably couldn't follow all that highly complex math and theory stuff which is hilarious.


----------



## Bobmuley

*SWITCH said:


> A good point, and good on Bobmuley for "testing".
> 
> yeh they do move their mouth around don't they Bob, just looking for the right spot I spose, which likely means as you say lightest possible contact.
> 
> How are you testing? you going to use a wipe board and a bunch of equations Bob +0) like the whizer, or something practical showing real world results.


Don’t let the hurt cloud your decision making. 

I’ve already experimented with it in the past. The group moves left with too much chin side pressure. 

I didn’t measure. I didn’t write down the results. But that was a good 12-15 years ago (Shooting a Mach 11 the time). 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Padgett

I try really hard to do things exactly the same, every shot.

All I know is that when I use my hooter shooter to group tune my arrows to the same hole anything that I do to the bow sends the arrow a good inch or so offline. I have experimented by simply touching above and below the d-loop and it will change the point of impact. I also twist the release a little and change the d-loop torque and it sends the arrow offline also.


----------



## Padgett

Oh my god, I just realized that when I did that testing back then I was not aiming the bow using the peep and sight pin with the hooter shooter. We learned how to draw the bow and use a couple reference points on the hooter shooter and a rod to measure the cant of the bow to ensure it was at the exact same position every time. Then I pressed on the bow string a little and shot. 

Now

We use a laser that is mounted to the bow and we put a box 6 or so feet in front of the bow and we line up the laser to a dot on the box, this has proven to be way way way more accurate than the other method. So, I could add some pressure to the bow string with my finger and then line up the laser and see if it hits dead on because that is what we do when shooting, Even though we may have some slight variations in the bow string on our face we are aiming the sight pin on the spot.


----------



## *SWITCH

awesome Padgett, could be tricky to quantify exactly how much contact/pressure is involved, but hey its a great idea to give us some actual useful info.

i'd like to see how much effect from literally just touching the back of the string (release aid side) with minimal/nominal pressure, and how much distance the string needs to be moved before it alters arrow impact point. is 6 feet away the max you can get?

Of course each different bow may give different results, but this itself would be useful in showing what factors may influence the pressure tolerance on the string before it moves significantly to alter arrow impact point. Thinking let off, poundage, string angle, strand count and material (ha not really)

I shall copy down your findings with my crayons =0)

cools


----------



## Jguy3348

cbrunson said:


> So simple minded me is thinking...
> 
> 80% let off on a 60 lb bow is 12 lbs.
> 
> So I picture a 12 lb bowling ball hanging on a string. That is if the archer adds zero additional pulling force into the stops.
> 
> You seriously think the soft skin on your cheek or the tip of your nose is going to bend that string? Within 1”-2” of the attachment point? I know, I know, we’ve all heard and seen a certain pro shooter talk about it. But I personally think it has more to do with pivoting off your face, or pulling into your face, either of which pulls your alignment off when you are staring down the X, and you don’t notice.
> 
> As long as you keep your alignment straight through the shot and pull straight back, face contact will not be a problem. JMHO



Watching videos of the pro’s, most draw their bow and move their head too the string. They do not seem to plant the release on their face but put their face on the release after pulling straight back.


----------



## cbrunson

Jguy3348 said:


> Watching videos of the pro’s, most draw their bow and move their head too the string. They do not seem to plant the release on their face but put their face on the release after pulling straight back.


One of the most valuable lessons learned is drawing away from your face. Usually learned after punching yourself in the mouth. 

But that has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. 

One of the big issues with too much face contact is anchoring off of it. If you pull through the shot (straight back), your hand needs to move freely. If you anchor hard to your face you will be more likely to bow arm the shot or pivot the release around your face. Both of which will change your POI down range. Both of which I believe are more likely the causes of the issues stated above, rather than bending a tight bowstring with your cheek or nose.


----------



## duc

*SWITCH said:


> whiz-Oz said:
> 
> 
> 
> At what point does an archer in a stressful situation become aware that they've been throwing shots because what was a string touch is now a string touch plus some extra? QUOTE]
> 
> I agree with the whole eliminating possible variables, but i'm saying that front contact on the face may not be a variable, afaik you or no one has tested this on a hooter shooter and published the results, the tolerance could be massive or large enough to render it not a variable at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ,
> 
> 
> 
> You are quite wrong. I think James Park tested this very thing on a hooter shooter and said that it only needed a small amount of INCONSISTENT facial contact to damage your score. Andy (whiz-oz) may be able to verify this.
Click to expand...


----------



## *SWITCH

duc said:


> *SWITCH said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are quite wrong. I think James Park tested this very thing on a hooter shooter and said that it only needed a small amount of INCONSISTENT facial contact to damage your score. Andy (whiz-oz) may be able to verify this.
> 
> 
> 
> ok they sounds like it would be pretty useful, I can't find it or anything referring to the results online, was/is it available still? hopefully it quantifies "small amount"
> 
> wonder if he tested just one bow with a specific string tension though?
> 
> oh and I did say AFAIK =0)
Click to expand...


----------



## Bobmuley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj5pGusX8AE

Play it at 1/4 speed and check out 0.54 minutes to see a bad example.


----------



## bowfisher

Watched several videos of the Lancaster shoot. Alot of facial contact and alot of pounded x's.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


----------



## whiz-Oz

bowfisher said:


> Watched several videos of the Lancaster shoot. Alot of facial contact and alot of pounded x's.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


So.. you've seen the group who are successfully pounding X's. 

How big is the group with facial contact which ISN'T pounding X's?


----------



## cbrunson

whiz-Oz said:


> So.. you've seen the group who are successfully pounding X's.
> 
> How big is the group with facial contact which ISN'T pounding X's?


I noticed the same thing with Gold Tip arrows. There were quite a few pounding Xs with them, but the large group of people not pounding Xs with them has me thinking maybe I should shoot different arrows.


----------



## Ned250

bowfisher said:


> Watched several videos of the Lancaster shoot. Alot of consistent facial contact and alot of pounded x's.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk


Fixed that for ya.


----------



## redman

Ttt


----------



## redman

Face contact with my 47 lb Pse bow at 12 lb holding weight gives me f problems with right arrows . I think with light holding weight I need no face contact . I tested that today and I was grouping great .


----------



## Scottspot50

It’s just an individual thing. I got hung up on having to put the string on my nose and touching the corner of my lip. After many many arrows when shooting relaxed I found I shot better with the string beside my nose. Still get a little lip contact. Basically I get my anchor and don’t worry about it. To se an example of this watch Braden Gellenthien.


----------

