# Shibuya Sight Recommendation (Dual Click Vs Ultima)



## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

I am looking for a sight for the long term, hoping I never have to replace it again. I'm quite set on Shibuya based on their reputation, resale value, reliability. I've read many reviews comparing them and have heard good things about both. 

Haven't heard anything bad about the Ultima, other than it costs $119USD more on LAS. 

Mostly good reviews on the dual click, except: 
Plastic sight block (if you set windage too far, you could crack the sight block)
Screw in bolt requires loosening/tightening every time elevation is adjusted. 
Aluminum extension negligibly heavier and less vibration dampening. 
The one thing that has the least consensus seems to be whether it rattles it or not, some say it does, while others claim it's rock solid. 

I know I can't go wrong with the Ultima, and probably wouldn't regret the Dual click either, but is it really worth the $119 difference? I'm Canadian, and with the exchange rate now, it's actually a $159 Cad difference to me. I don't intend on becoming pro, but I do intend to shoot for the rest of my life. I guess I'm trying to justify that I'll be satisfied with a dual click, even though some people I've spoken to have told me, "Well human nature is going to make you want the next newest and shiniest technology, and one day you might find yourself wanting to trade up to an Ultima". 

What would you guys buy?...I'm particularly interested to hear from those that have used BOTH of them and can compare. 

The classifieds just had one Ultima sold for $225 last night, when I checked this morning, it was already snatched up 

I can afford either, but I'll probably feel better knowing I saved money which I could spend on something else like a full stab setup in the near future.


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## Dmaxdmax (May 4, 2013)

I'm about to order an Ultima from here at the encouragement of several ATers. http://alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/008943.1.1856635614779271803


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I have both (Ultima is from 2005/2006 or so and Dual Click is some years older IIRC). Both are exceptional. 

If money is no issue, then I'd probably pick ultima. If it is taken into account, Dual Click. My absolute favourite sight of all time has been Dual Click Extreme that my mate had, it had both carbon extension arm and carbon elevation bar, it was very, very light and rock solid.


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

stryder. FWIW, when I decided to go full on Oly style I drove up to LAS and tested both the Dual Click and the Ultima, as well as a SureLoc. I settled on the Ultima. Nearly two years later, I still like its sturdiness of construction, its ease of use, and its stability after making adjustments. I highly recommend it to you. Regards, LT


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

On both the dual click and the ultima there are both aluminum and carbon options, which have different blocks and fastening to the extension. I say this because the AL dual click is the cheapest at $180 new, the carbon dual click and AL ultima are about the same at $250, and the carbon ultima is the most expensive at $300, which is a pretty broad price range. I have the least expensive dual click and don't have many complaints, although in terms of what people say, the slide sight is seen as less desirable because it's 2-d up down left right where people want angles, and you have a slide with grooves and a hand tighten screw instead of something more sophisticated.

These sights seem to last long enough I'd treat it as a long-term purchase.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

the best buy for the money is the aluminum extension ultima. We have kids who break the dual click plastic aperture housing when they panic and forget how to move the sight and that little bolt that holds the aperture in place can crack. I have seen this happen several times in tournaments where the brain freeze sometimes sets in or in field tournaments where inexperienced archers often have windage issues due to non-level shooting positions. Also some kids forget to tighten the locking knob. Neither is an issue on the Ultima

for our club I don't buy dual clicks any more since the ultimate last so much longer


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Ultima all the way. I don't like the plastic housing on the Dual Click as mentioned by Jim C. I know lots of people have no problem with it, but in a battle between plastic and aluminum for impact resistance, aluminum will almost always win. So, here's another option. If you like the way the Dual Click works, but want a carbon extension and aluminum housing instead of plastic, check out the Win & Win WS600. It's only $20 more than a standard Dual Click. If you can swing the cost of the aluminum extension Ultima, it's a tiny bit better sight in most ways, but the mounting block of the aluminum extension Shibuya sights requires you to take the knob off completely every time you remove the sight from the bow. My daughter has dropped her Ultima mounting knob countless times. I thought for sure it'd get lost or ruined. It's dented a little but usable. The mounting block on the Win&Win doesn't require you to remove the knob fully, just as the carbon extension Shibuya sights don't. This is a nitpicky thing, but when you're paying $250 for a sight, I'd expect to have this convenience included. My $0.02

So if I was choosing, my preference would be (in order):
1. Shibuya Ultima with carbon extension
2. Shibuya Ultima with aluminum extension
3. Win & Win WS600
4. Shibuya Dual Click with carbon extension
5. Shibuya Dual Click with aluminum extension

However, the best balance of features (best value) in all 5 of those is the Win & Win WS600 in my opinion. There's a Ultima aluminum extension in my house and a WS600 in my house. I use the WS600.

-Kent W.

-Kent W.


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## sandperson0 (Mar 16, 2015)

And I thought I was the only one that dropped the mounting knob on the Ultima Aluminum 

Other than dropping it now and then, I have no complaints with it and am very happy. Very easy to adjust once it's setup initially.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

williamskg6 said:


> Ultima all the way. I don't like the plastic housing on the Dual Click as mentioned by Jim C. I know lots of people have no problem with it, but in a battle between plastic and aluminum for impact resistance, aluminum will almost always win. So, here's another option. If you like the way the Dual Click works, but want a carbon extension and aluminum housing instead of plastic, check out the Win & Win WS600. It's only $20 more than a standard Dual Click. If you can swing the cost of the aluminum extension Ultima, it's a tiny bit better sight in most ways, but the mounting block of the aluminum extension Shibuya sights requires you to take the knob off completely every time you remove the sight from the bow. My daughter has dropped her Ultima mounting knob countless times. I thought for sure it'd get lost or ruined. It's dented a little but usable. The mounting block on the Win&Win doesn't require you to remove the knob fully, just as the carbon extension Shibuya sights don't. This is a nitpicky thing, but when you're paying $250 for a sight, I'd expect to have this convenience included. My $0.02
> 
> So if I was choosing, my preference would be (in order):
> 1. Shibuya Ultima with carbon extension
> ...


that's a good point and most of us in CJO have those Shooting Star full cases and what we usually do is just loosen the knob on our Ultima Carbons, (me) sure locks (several of my students-I have a ton of sure locs) or Axcels (my son) and just push the sight close to the riser. with the aluminum Shibuya bars you spend a bit more time


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## Varza (Sep 11, 2014)

I went straight for the Ultima with carbon extension and love it to bits! This guy may be a bit long winded, but he explains the differences between the two quite thoroughly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZvAnyxazpY


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

On certain configurations, the Ultima could be observed undergoing pronounced oscillation after the shot. There have been occurrences of the sight bracket slowly loosening from the riser, resulting in the unexplained elevation discrepancies. The vertical sight rail when combined with the sight block, is considerably heavier than a dual click, and coupled with the vibration from the shot, causes the sight block to loosen.

The dual click does not seen to have this issue.

I sold my Ultima. I'm on Dual Click.


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

theminoritydude said:


> I sold my Ultima. I'm on Dual Click.


Me too. But that was for colour. 

Any current Shibuya model will do the job for many years to come


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

Haha, as expected I'm still just as on the fence as before. 

Let me look at this from a different angle then...What will look better matched together with the blue SF Forged+?
(Yes I realize it's very subjective, maybe you guys can convince me with pics of a beautiful setup all colour coordinated)


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

stryder1587 said:


> Haha, as expected I'm still just as on the fence as before.
> 
> Let me look at this from a different angle then...What will look better matched together with the blue SF Forged+?
> (Yes I realize it's very subjective, maybe you guys can convince me with pics of a beautiful setup all colour coordinated)


I see where you are headed. I have a blue forged plus and a blue dual click (and a blue stab now, complete with blue damper). You can get blue in either the AL dual click or the C ultima. So about $120 difference new. If you wanted that sight anyway.

Failing that the royal blue riser is a nice color and will go with a bunch of different colors. But I come from soccer and the notion of throwing in a little style...some color in the wardrobe and in the setup.

Only thing is if you ever get another riser the more snazzy color ideas will no longer match. I also have a black riser. I use the same components with that. With black a blue sight and stab looks.....different.

But for indoor season I have Gone Barebow so all that is academic.


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## tkaap (Nov 30, 2009)

stryder1587 said:


> Haha, as expected I'm still just as on the fence as before.


You seem about as decisive as I am. I have a Dual Click -- it's fine.

From a technology standpoint, the voices of experience here seem to say you can't really go wrong with either. From a mental management standpoint, getting a Dual Click will always have you wondering if the Ultima would have been a better choice. Now, mental management coaching is time-consuming and expensive. For at least $50/hr, a coach could help you through that in a series of 4-8 sessions. For only $150 CAD, you can immediately eliminate the sight technology as a source of uncertainty about your shooting, forever! Think of the savings!

-T


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

stryder1587 said:


> Haha, as expected I'm still just as on the fence as before.
> 
> Let me look at this from a different angle then...What will look better matched together with the blue SF Forged+?
> (Yes I realize it's very subjective, maybe you guys can convince me with pics of a beautiful setup all colour coordinated)


stryder, I get it. I'm having the same issues myself as I am currently trying to decide on a new riser.  My current rig is a blue Cartel Fantom with Silver colored Samick limbs. My Ultima is black, as is my clicker and plunger. But my arrow rest is blue to match my riser. So are my stabilizers. My string? Blue and silver. Wait! There's a pattern emerging. Now that I think about it, I could go with either black or blue for the new riser and still be color coordinated. :smile: LT


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## Mormegil (Jan 26, 2012)

Black goes with everything. Especially more black.

I have aluminium extension ultimas on both my compound and recurve, no vibration issues, would happily recommend them.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

theminoritydude said:


> On certain configurations, the Ultima could be observed undergoing pronounced oscillation after the shot. There have been occurrences of the sight bracket slowly loosening from the riser, resulting in the unexplained elevation discrepancies. The vertical sight rail when combined with the sight block, is considerably heavier than a dual click, and coupled with the vibration from the shot, causes the sight block to loosen.


They ship a tool with the sight called an "Allen wrench" specifically for this problem . But seriously, I have both Ultimas, one with the carbon extension and the other the aluminum and have not had trouble with the mounting blocks coming loose. You do have to retighten the bolts once or twice after the first installation and a few shots through the bow, but once tightened down it stays put.

Even with the heavier compound sight block & scope, the Ultima stays put and has no play at all. I had a dual-click years ago, though, and its main advantage is how light it is. The Ultima is the way to go, though, if you can afford it.

DM


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

dmacey said:


> They ship a tool with the sight called an "Allen wrench" specifically for this problem . But seriously, I have both Ultimas, one with the carbon extension and the other the aluminum and have not had trouble with the mounting blocks coming loose. You do have to retighten the bolts once or twice after the first installation and a few shots through the bow, but once tightened down it stays put.
> 
> DM


As a matter of fact, I tightened my sight bracket more than once after discovering the movement. I used a painted riser, and I wasn't the only person affected in such a manner. I am in no way blaming the quality nor design of the sight, but by making a comparison, we have discovered that the dual click, while satisfying the function of a highly adjustable and reliable aiming device, does not come with the added disadvantage of added weight, in exchange for convenience of a single action elevation adjustment.

Comparison of a recurve with compound needs added scrutiny. These two vibrate in different ways (Frequncy and Magnitude), and what works for one compound, may not work for another compound, given the wide range of specs that compound bows come in. In fact, in some cases, it's probably better to use aluminum instead of carbon.


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## Mad Wally (Apr 26, 2013)

If you change distances a lot like with 3-D and field you will really appreciate the Ultima, I certainly do.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Check out the price of an Ultima at Alternative Sporting Services. Significantly lower than LAS. With the value of our CAD so low we need to do what we can to save some dollars. I got my Ultima from Alternative and I really like it.


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## stryder1587 (Apr 15, 2014)

TER said:


> Check out the price of an Ultima at Alternative Sporting Services. Significantly lower than LAS. With the value of our CAD so low we need to do what we can to save some dollars. I got my Ultima from Alternative and I really like it.


How much did you have to pay for shipping/duties/taxes? Which shipping company did you pick (if there's an option).


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

theminoritydude said:


> As a matter of fact, I tightened my sight bracket more than once after discovering the movement. I used a painted riser, and I wasn't the only person affected in such a manner. I am in no way blaming the quality nor design of the sight, but by making a comparison, we have discovered that the dual click, while satisfying the function of a highly adjustable and reliable aiming device, does not come with the added disadvantage of added weight, in exchange for convenience of a single action elevation adjustment.
> 
> Comparison of a recurve with compound needs added scrutiny. These two vibrate in different ways (Frequncy and Magnitude), and what works for one compound, may not work for another compound, given the wide range of specs that compound bows come in. In fact, in some cases, it's probably better to use aluminum instead of carbon.


My experience is on both my recurve and compound bows - I never experienced any repeated loosening of the mounting blocks on either one, even when using my compound sight block with a pin in it on my recurve (noticeably more weight on a very high vibration bow). Your paint theory is likely the right one, though, for why you had this problem.

I should mention, however, that the carbon bar/attachment block on my carbon does require really cranking down the attachment knob to stay put. Especially on high vibration bows, it can eventually rattle loose if you don't really tighten it. The aluminum bar model, though, stays utterly put, so I actually prefer that one. The carbon version is microscopically lighter and the bar is stiffer, but at over $100 additional cost, I'll probably stick with the aluminum bar model if I get another one.

DM


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Only time I've had to deal with sights rattling loose in my own bows, it was just a badly fitting screw. I'd say 9 times out of 10 people have just used any screw that comes with the sight, without checking if the riser's threads are a good fit (or if they are actually threaded to that screw), as there is a big tolerance in both cheap screws and threads tapped straight to riser. A drop of blue locktite, or running tap through carefully to clear threads or just sourcing a better fitting screw pretty much always solves any issues. It used to be pretty big problem with some W&W risers (like Xpert IIRC) back in the day, as the screw that came with Shibuya sight at that time was just long enough for it to bottom out so it didn't actually properly tighten, and some even corked the threads with them, trying to overtighten loose screws.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

stryder1587 said:


> How much did you have to pay for shipping/duties/taxes? Which shipping company did you pick (if there's an option).


Sometimes I pay 10% tax, sometimes Canada Post lets it slide. There is no duty on archery equipment. Shipping was something like $12 USD. I always choose the cheapest shipping option.


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## Mad Wally (Apr 26, 2013)

zal said:


> Only time I've had to deal with sights rattling loose in my own bows, it was just a badly fitting screw. I'd say 9 times out of 10 people have just used any screw that comes with the sight, without checking if the riser's threads are a good fit (or if they are actually threaded to that screw), as there is a big tolerance in both cheap screws and threads tapped straight to riser. A drop of blue locktite, or running tap through carefully to clear threads or just sourcing a better fitting screw pretty much always solves any issues. It used to be pretty big problem with some W&W risers (like Xpert IIRC) back in the day, as the screw that came with Shibuya sight at that time was just long enough for it to bottom out so it didn't actually properly tighten, and some even corked the threads with them, trying to overtighten loose screws.


+1 for blue Loctite 243


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