# Nobody Cares about Finger shooters??



## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

It must be the difference between the US and UK, but as far as I am aware, nobody cares about archers in the UK. We are somewhat factionalised between the GNAS members, who shoot FITA target, NFAS, which is the biggest field archery (inc 3D) organisation and EFAA/WFAA/SFAA, who are the equivalent of the NFAA.

Very few people in any of the organisations know archers from another organisation, although we know who the 'top shots' are within our own, but even then it is unlikely that the trad folks know who is the top finger or release shooter, as we use compounds, and that is not their interest.

I am sure within the target world, there is a much higher degree of recognition, as the Olympics and other high profile / televised competitions raise those archers profiles and a few may even be 'professionals' in that they actually make a living from archery, but in the field / 3D world even the very best shooters are pretty much unknown.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Yes, Jim, it's almost gone and it's going to get worse. Perfect example was last year at Yankton. Bob Gentry shot a 46 with fingers, but every whisper was about Jesse shooting the 60. I personally was just as impressed with the 46, but in the society we live in today, it doesn't matter how you get the score, it's that you do... If someone had shot a 50 with traditional equipment, the 60 would have still been the top story...If you're into finger shooting to have your fifteen minutes of fame, better look elsewhere...All you have to do is look at us a whole where we pay atheletes millions of dollars to beat each other, or to beat a ball around with a stick to see just how misguided we really are. Not only is fingers not invogue, it's damn hard to do at a higher level, so why expend all that energy to shoot scores that are mediocre to a good but not great release score??? Sometimes I wish I had changed over back about ten years ago when I was having so much trouble, but right now, I MAY be shooting better than I ever have in my life, I just don't have the stamina to shoot all day anymore.


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## marcusjb (Jun 22, 2005)

It seems our society cares more about the end than the means. The quickest way to a high score is what matters.


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## X-Ray (Apr 3, 2004)

*finger shooters*

As a former finger shooter I feel your pain, I think it is the total lack of shooters. look at the indoor nationals less than ten shooters in bowhunter freestyle limited. Freestyle had more but the numbers compared to release shooters are not significant. Those guys can shoot there is no doubt about it, but there just isn't the numbers. If those guys started shooting and winning in the release classes then someone would take notice. 
I jumped out of the class because there just wasn't many shooters. at this point I don't think I could shoot fingers any more because I have arthritus or something in my fingers and hand. oh well.... 
goodluck to all finger shooters! :darkbeer:


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

If i had to shoot with a sight and release id quit archery , i do not care about shooting all xes i just want to have fun with my archery and fingers and no sight is the way to go , i believe it takes as much skill to shoot sightless and fingers as it does with them


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## X-Ray (Apr 3, 2004)

*fingers*



dead eye dick said:


> If i had to shoot with a sight and release id quit archery , i do not care about shooting all xes i just want to have fun with my archery and fingers and no sight is the way to go , i believe it takes as much skill to shoot sightless and fingers as it does with them


that is the great thing about archery you get to choose, I have been there done that. we all have our reasons for shooting what we do. 
:darkbeer:


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Thanks for the posts, Guys!...I know that it takes more skill,(Practice???) and is a better testament to the Archer, and to the "Shootability" of a bow, to see what a good top-class Finger shooter can do with a bow....I've been using a Hook since late winter...I'm actually getting bored with shooting, to be honest...I've shot 3-D the last 3 out of 4 weekends....All three shoots, I didnt shoot My bow all week, for practice...I've averaged just over 9 points per target, just by shooting a little bit on Saturday, then going to the shoot on Sunday....Keep in mind that the local 3-D's that I shoot dont go with IBO rules, and shoot out to 40-45 yards...one shoot doesnt score 11's...When I was shooting Fingers, I had to shoot at least 3-4 days per week, to shoot anywhere near the 270's range for score....(please keep in mind that I'm not a good shot, and am ate up with TP)...I reckon what I'm getting at is something that Y'all allready know, that Finger shooting takes ALOT more fiddling/tuning with equipment, and way way more practice to maintain any decent amount of skill, at least for most of "US"....If I were an Archery equipment Manf., I'd like to think that I'd take a closer look at the better Finger shooters, and make sure that I used them in my advertising , because if a Finger shooter can shoot "UP" on a 3-D course, or shoot 300 rounds, with high X counts, then how much easier would it be for a Release shooter to be successful with this same equipment??...I was "Trad" back in the late 80's,early 90's when very few folks around here shot Trad bows, and thought that I was sorta an oddball...That was nothing compared to being a Finger shooter with a compound!.L.O.L....I'd also like to have a dollar for every time I've been at the shop, or on a couse, and someone told Me that they used to shoot Fingers, and told me how good they were shooting Fingers...L.O.L....I usually ask them why they dont shoot Fingers now...Too many different responses to mess with posting them....My favourite is that "Nobody makes a good Finger bow anymore"...L.O.L...Hoyt along has 7 or 8 bows in the '09 line-up that can be shot well with Fingers....Mathews has at least 3, and Martin has 2, and PSE has at least 2....I think that it mostly comes down to ego, and folks dont want to shoot a 270-something score on a tougher 3-D course, or be a 280's average on a Spot league....I give "Props" to any skilled shooter, regardless of the equipment choice....But a Trad shooter averaging 9 points per target, or a Finger shooting averaging over 9 points per target is a very good shot, and I think that it's a shame that these Archers arent recognised by the Archery Community for Their accomplishments...I'm not whining, becuase I realise that everyone makes Their own choices in equipment, and all that, but the top class Finger shooters are pretty much either ignored, or dont matter much at all to the Archery Community...I'll get off my soapbox now.....L.O.L...Y'all take Care.......Jim


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## dead eye dick (Sep 1, 2004)

i now of a some of the barebow shooters usually shoots a 300 every year in major competition , thats hard to beat by most shooters no matter what you shoot ,


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

Harperman said:


> Thanks for the posts, Guys!...I know that it takes more skill,(Practice???) and is a better testament to the Archer, and to the "Shootability" of a bow, to see what a good top-class Finger shooter can do with a bow....I've been using a Hook since late winter...I'm actually getting bored with shooting, to be honest...I've shot 3-D the last 3 out of 4 weekends....All three shoots, I didnt shoot My bow all week, for practice...I've averaged just over 9 points per target, just by shooting a little bit on Saturday, then going to the shoot on Sunday....Keep in mind that the local 3-D's that I shoot dont go with IBO rules, and shoot out to 40-45 yards...one shoot doesnt score 11's...When I was shooting Fingers, I had to shoot at least 3-4 days per week, to shoot anywhere near the 270's range for score....(please keep in mind that I'm not a good shot, and am ate up with TP)...I reckon what I'm getting at is something that Y'all allready know, that Finger shooting takes ALOT more fiddling/tuning with equipment, and way way more practice to maintain any decent amount of skill, at least for most of "US"....If I were an Archery equipment Manf., I'd like to think that I'd take a closer look at the better Finger shooters, and make sure that I used them in my advertising , because if a Finger shooter can shoot "UP" on a 3-D course, or shoot 300 rounds, with high X counts, then how much easier would it be for a Release shooter to be successful with this same equipment??...I was "Trad" back in the late 80's,early 90's when very few folks around here shot Trad bows, and thought that I was sorta an oddball...That was nothing compared to being a Finger shooter with a compound!.L.O.L....I'd also like to have a dollar for every time I've been at the shop, or on a couse, and someone told Me that they used to shoot Fingers, and told me how good they were shooting Fingers...L.O.L....I usually ask them why they dont shoot Fingers now...Too many different responses to mess with posting them....My favourite is that "Nobody makes a good Finger bow anymore"...L.O.L...Hoyt along has 7 or 8 bows in the '09 line-up that can be shot well with Fingers....Mathews has at least 3, and Martin has 2, and PSE has at least 2....*I think that it mostly comes down to ego, and folks dont want to shoot a 270-something score on a tougher 3-D course,* or be a 280's average on a Spot league....I give "Props" to any skilled shooter, regardless of the equipment choice....But a Trad shooter averaging 9 points per target, or a Finger shooting averaging over 9 points per target is a very good shot, and I think that it's a shame that these Archers arent recognised by the Archery Community for Their accomplishments...I'm not whining, becuase I realise that everyone makes Their own choices in equipment, and all that, but the top class Finger shooters are pretty much either ignored, or dont matter much at all to the Archery Community...I'll get off my soapbox now.....L.O.L...Y'all take Care.......Jim



I agree man, it's a shame too. I may step on a lot of toes with this statement, but "anyone can shoot a release" bow well, without having to rely as much on skill, form, equipment and especially a properly constructed arrow.

A very good friend of mine who is also a Limited Pro shooter, has decided to move on to the release crowd after 10+ years as finger shooter and back to back ASA champ. I honestly wish he'd stick it out, but can't say that I can't blame him.

I hate to think it, but sadly, it looks like our days are numbered in Limited class too. I have certainly been doing my part, trying to recruit some crossovers, but it looks like most have bought into the drivel, that Open is where the glory is. :thumbs_do

Just for comparison, here are 3 score sheets from the same course, same shoot, between Open C(release shooters), Hunter and Limited shooters, again same course, same day, same yardages. 

Point is, most folks just don't get it. Now, I'm not knocking anyone for their choice of class or equipment, but I think it's ridiculous to shower the glory on the Open or other release shooters, because *"they're the better shooters"*

I beg to differ


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## love fingers (Feb 7, 2009)

*lame*

I have an uncle who was one of the Founders of one of the first archery clubs in Idaho. Used to shoot 500+ feild rounds with a bare bow. He said when releases came out it just took all the competition out of it. He conseqeuntially quit shooting competetively because of it. It is hard to think of a day when all the archers in the game had to be as dedicated to the sport in order to be succesful. The finger shooters definetly do not get the respect they deserve, and we are also being forgotten about when it comes to archery innovation.


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

We have a whole generarion of young archers that are shooting barebow. Archery in schools program. Will those young people shoot fingers, are will they be influenced to shoot a release?


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## ScarletArrows (May 25, 2007)

I am not one to chime in on this forum very much but that comment about being forgotten about when it comes to archery innovation makes me ask...

What do finger shooters need to have innovation in?


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I have no clue about that one either. I think everything you need is there, but I agree that there's few new products for the finger shooter; pretty much all effort is geared to the release shooter. I see a few new things from across the pond for the FITA recurve guys, but that's it. I Definitely don't think there's someone out there spending a lot of energy dreaming up the ultimate bow for the compound finger shooter. of course, all it takes is a phone call to the Barnsdale guy to get the real deal...I'm shooting the exact same arrows, fletch, rest, sight, scope, clicker and plunger I shot in 93 all be it on an 08 Barney round wheel bow and it's definitely all I need. If it ain't broke, why bother to fix it?


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## jcs-bowhunter (Jul 7, 2007)

My 2 cents worth...

I think much of the reason the manufacturers mostly ignore finger shooters is due to their emphasis on speed first from the consumer. To effective shoot most speed bows a release is required. Speed is an objective attribute that they can market against each other and justify why to buy this year's model verses last year's. Forgiveness, smoothness and accuracy are subjective to the shooter and not something that can be quantified in marketing or advertising material. Most 3D shooters and many bowhunters pick their bow by speed as the primary concern. When finger shooters starting making their mass migration to releases in the late 80s through early 90s 6" overdraws were a common means to convert a "slow" bow to a "faster" bow. This secured the release mentality in most archers. 

The lack of other finger compound shoots is one of the reason I am transitioning to traditional. These guys are finger shooters also...


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

90% of all the compound bows are going to be for bowhunters. The decision to allow releases in the NFAA way back in the 1970's I believe actually has limited archery from the potential growth. Look at golf. I mean is it that exciting to watch. Well it is when someone rallies from behind, out of the sandpit to win. People enjoy the drama. Golf also sets guidelines that restricted the amount of technology that preserved the intial spirit of the game. i mean you do not see putters with aiming devices and pendalum type putters that could analyze the green then draw back just the right amount. In archery we have allowed so much, that we created so many classes, that we are too divided. Think of what it might be if a line had been drawn in the sand with technology way back in 1970. Some would argue that technology has grown the sport, I believe in the big picture it has limited it.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

dragonheart said:


> 90% of all the compound bows are going to be for bowhunters. The decision to allow releases in the NFAA way back in the 1970's I believe actually has limited archery from the potential growth. Look at golf. I mean is it that exciting to watch. Well it is when someone rallies from behind, out of the sandpit to win. People enjoy the drama. Golf also sets guidelines that restricted the amount of technology that preserved the intial spirit of the game. i mean you do not see putters with aiming devices and pendalum type putters that could analyze the green then draw back just the right amount. In archery we have allowed so much, *that we created so many classes, that we are too divided*. Think of what it might be if a line had been drawn in the sand with technology way back in 1970. Some would argue that technology has grown the sport, I believe in the big picture it has limited it.


Well said. :darkbeer:


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

I wa at the bow shop getting my Vapor Trail Strings put on Drenaline LD, A customer asked me if I still shot fingers. I said that I did and he told me the ol I used to shoot and I am thinking of doing it again,BUT(always) if takes to much practice to shoot good. While we were discussing this I said wihtout really thinking "With a release you shoot bad it is probably the setup on the bow, If a finger shooter shoots bad it could be anything" and I think that is what turns people off they dont want to think about it they want the instant gratification. I am kinda proud that I work at being a better shooter with all my variables that seems like the fun part. I think we all get frustrated from time to time but isnt that part of it?


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

*10%*

By the way I shot a shoot on Fathers Day weekend. There where 337 shooters in all 100 Bow hunters MSR, 10 fingers MSF kinda ridiculous isnt it?


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## love fingers (Feb 7, 2009)

*Scarlett*

What I meant when I said innovation was that basically, the number of manufacturers that are making new epuipment for fingers is really dropping off. We should have more options, You dont see any new rests coming out or any real attention being paid to the future of finger shooting in the industry.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

love fingers said:


> What I meant when I said innovation was that basically, the number of manufacturers that are making new epuipment for fingers is really dropping off. We should have more options, You dont see any new rests coming out or any real attention being paid to the future of finger shooting in the industry.


.............Love Fingers...In my opinion, and this is again, just my opinion, new technology isnt really aimed at Finger shooters becuase We either dont need it, or dont want it...The rest on my Finger bow right now is a Golden Key Star Hunter double blade rest..This arrow rest is older than the '99 model bow that it's mounted on....Slapped it on, eye-balled the center shot, and nock height..made a few shots through paper, made a few adjustments, and in less that 10 minutes, had a nice hole in paper...I can shoot feathers or vanes off this rest, and it's micro-tunable, and quiet...Just as an example....I've talked with ALOT of current Finger shooters, and some fella's that actually were the real deal with Fingers back in the day...Most prefer a bow that shoots between 240-280 f.p.s....What current Bow Manf. wants to develope a new bow that shoots that slow??..I recently got this PSE Mach 9, with round wheels, and Barnsdale carbon limbs...43"-ish ATA, and 8 1/2" brace height...255-260 f.p.s. bow....And I am shooting the heck out of it...It's a bow made with all the good cutting edge technology of the late '90's, and it shoots so well that the $110.00 that I paid for it (along with an extra set of soft wheels to go with it) is almost a crime...Today's new bows are about lighter, shorter, and faster...No fingershooter that I know wants lighter, or shorter, and most folks that I've discussed this with think that 280 f.p.s. is about the upper limit for speed, that can still be shot well with Fingers...All the "OLD" stuff still works GREAT ....And it's really hard to sell folks something that They allready have...I started whittling on a decent Osage stave this past weekend...When I get it done, if I did my part in the construction, it will kill a deer, bear,or elk....I gotta do the shooting, though..This bow design, and material it's made of are prehistoric, but will still kill a critter just as dead as the same gear did 10,000 years ago...L.O.L...Hoyt, PSE, Mathews, Martin and Barnsdale have made some great , shootable bows in the past, and continue to do so today...Rests are still available that will do the job nicely, as well as Stabilizers, and sights and arrows...The area that still leaves room for improvement is mainly in the Materials, I'm waiting for Nano-Carbon limbs that weight next to nothing, and store and deliver 60# worth of energy to an arrow, but at 50# draw weight....THAT WOULD BE A MAJOR IMPROVEMENT FOR A FINGER SHOOTER...As long as the let-off was 50%-60%, anyway.....L.O.L...Jim


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

*convert*

Getting back to fingers after awhile in traditional and I still have a Bowtech I shoot a release with but my goal is to shoot my *Conquest* with fingers as good as my other bow with a release.Getting better and will be toting my *Mathews *into the woods this fall with my *Damascus* glove on !
I love the simplicity and feel of the string on my fingers and if it s all about hitting 10 rings at 60 yds , I'll get my Stevens 223 cal. out!  I think there are probably alot more finger shooters like *Folkroud* and *Adams* out there, we just don't here about them.--------------->


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

*a to a chart*

was just checking out the Axel to Axel chart on the *Hunters Friend *web site- they have a 2007 chart with all bows made that year and the A to A specs- interesting! I suppose as stated however that a chart like this and the A to A bows over 40" is diminishing.....


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## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

my hoyt provantage and i wouldn't think of shooting any way but fingers . i'd never try a release , but did try a protec and hated it . currently have a really nice merlin supernova that i like way better than the protec but not as well as provantage , you will find it in ''target bows for sale'' . as for no new finger innovations ,the only difference between fingers and release is tab and rest and maybe they have reached perfection .


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

Yep.................:sad:


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## Stephen B (Jul 13, 2006)

I started shooting a compound last fall after hunting season after 10 years of shooting Trad gear. I originally shot a compound in the mid 90's for 2-3 years-shooting it with fingers. I am first and foremost a bowhunter. Except for the state Pope Young shoot and the North American Longbow Shoot (Trad. shoots) I have never shot at a 3-d shoot or any other comp's. 

I switched because of some hunting situations the last 5 years that would have turned out different with a wheel bow. No wounded animals or anything, but lets just say some more that would have been on the ground with a wheel bow. That and there is a great finger shooter, great hunter and all around great guy that hunts out of the Elk camp just below us by the name of Bob Gentry. I met him a few years ago by walking into his camp after dark and shooting the breeze with him and was impressed with his character right away before I even found out about the amount of world titles that he has. He was and is a humble nice guy and I have to say I was inspired by his calling/hunting/shooting ability, but most of all really thought he was a real good dude- so to speak. 

First of all I am having lots of fun shooting my Mathews Dren. LD. If I do say so myself-I was and still am a pretty good shot with a Recurve. But they do have their limitations in a hunting situation-ie: distance and ability to draw ahead of time and hold if need be.

When I went looking at compounds to shoot I went to the main Bowtech Proshop in Eugene OR. and shot and bought a Constitution- It shot well, but there was something about it that did not suit me. About a month later I went to the other local bowshop in town and shot the Mathews and it felt great. The bow shop owner is a great guy and is also a friend. He said if I was going to make a switch, I should go all the way and get a release; I told him that is was a tough decision to go back to shooting a compound (I had not literally shot one for 10 yrs.) and I was only interested in shooting what I knew-fingers since I had never shot a release in my life. He wanted me to try a release in the store and to mostly appease him I shot one for about 15 minutes. That was weird to me- but also it made me realise how easy they are to shoot. I was not interested at all in buying one, but here I was shooting one for the first time in my life and even though I have shot a bow for 14 years-it surprised me how accurate you can be with one of those triggers strapped to your wrist. At had no plans to buy a release but I really liked how that Mathews shot with fingers and after a night to think it over I ordered the Mathews LD the next day with the 65% cams. I had decided I would shoot the Constitution and the LD all winter and decide in the spring whether I was going to sell one or use one as a back up since I have always been of the mentality that is good to have a back-up.

Well all winter I shot both, (along with my recurve--I love to shoot and have the property to shoot everyday if I want) but found that I liked the LD A LOT better than the BT. It was lighter, it drew smoother and the shot felt a lot different. So I decided to sell the Constitution this spring and just use my recurve for a back-up. I sold the BT for only $100 less than what I paid for it, and don't regret that investment and learning experience one bit.

I can shot my Mathews out to 55 yards with fingers (Bateman Tab and a NAP center rest flipper) very well. My group at 50 yards-(not that I would ever shoot an animal at that distance- I will limit my range to 40yrds at the most) is as good or better than my group at 30 with the recurve. The thing I am most impressed with is- a "mess-up" at 20-25 yards by me is not very far off with the compound compared to the same "mess-up" with the recurve. I know that is not all me and I almost still feel as though I am "cheating" by using the compound, but I am in LOVE with the accuracy. I drew a Montana Sept. Elk tag and feel real good about the idea that if a Bull hangs up at 35-40 yards and the situation is right and I do my part- this bow will give me a little bit of an edge over the recurve. My max. effective comfort zone with a Trad bow on an animal was 30 yrds. and that was by no means a slam dunk. I almost hate to say it but 30 yards with this LD is a slam dunk.

My hunting partner who is going to MT on the Elk hunt and who shoots very very well (Bowtech sponsors him) with a compound and a release was over the other day to shoot, and our groups were very close at 40 yrds with him shooting a release and me my Tab. He has started shooting trad gear the last 2 years but mostly hunts with the BT bow. Not to toot my own horn too much but I think he was a bit surprised at my accuracy level shooting fingers even though he knew how I can shoot a recurve, this was the first time he has ever seen me shoot a compound. 

I can also do things with this Mathews that I have to say surprised me:- I shoot with sights and within 5-25 yrds I can get off a VERY quick shot if need be with this bow. As soon as I draw and just barely get the sight picture with the 20 yard pin the shot is off and is in or very close to the spot I am looking at. I thought I was going to be giving that up by going from trad to wheels. I am amazed at the fast accuracy with the bow; it not quite snap shooting- but it is very close. That snap shooting was never my style with the recurve, but was available if need be. The other think that blew me away is how much I can cant this bow and shoot it in awkward positions (with in 20 yrds) and still be very accurate. The forgiveness of the NAP flipper and its side plate is amazing. It is almost like shooting a recurve off the shelf. My hunting partner was amazed when I showed him that and at how fast you can get a shot off. I kidded with him and flicked him some Guy crap and said "now try that with your release and pronged drop away rest"; he said "I can't". 

I had been shooting it since last Nov. and it just goes to show you you if you work hard at something you can do well with it.

Now would I have worked as hard the last 8 months or might I add- had as much fun if I would have taken the what I feel would have been the easy path by walking out of the shop with a new compound and a trigger release. I personally don't think so. I know I would not have shot as much since the trigger would have been easy, or should I say easier. I have had fun shooting this LD and it was almost like starting over again- it was something new which added some spice. Who knows I might feel that way some day if I pick up a release-even though you should never say never - I don't think that is ever going to happen. 

I know this has been a long post-but I have had a blast for the last 9 months shooting this bow and I don't care one bit whether "Nobody Cares about Finger Shooters"...because I do things for myself and my own reasons and I don't care personally what anyone else thinks. IMHO -For the bowhunter-in 95 % of the situations- I think if they are a good finger shooter they will be better off shooting that way in a hunting situation. Heck-I don't even need a tab to shoot this bow.


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## abe archer (Mar 2, 2003)

*There are more out there*

There are more finger shooter out there but they only hunt. I have two good friends that only hunts or shoot local shoots. And I bet there are more.

I am back shooting fingers and will never go back to a release for compitition. That said I beleive very soon the finger bows will be gone. and the super fast bows will be all that is left. As I get older and watch the thinks I love leave I hope the finger shooter will outlast this trend.


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## tguil (Mar 3, 2003)

I tried a release once. Didn't like it and never tried one again. Right now I have four compound bows and one recurve all set up pretty much the same way for fingers with a tab. My bows date from 1984 to 2002 -- all Hoyts. All of my bows are good shooters and I have no intention of "trading up". (Just like I'm hanging on to 1972 Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge.) As long as I can buy the necessary accessories for these bows, I'll keep'em and shoot'em and not worry about having the "latest and greatest".

I don't need respect, I just need to hit the "kill zone" at 40 or 50 yards.  (Yes, I will take a 50 yard shot if I need to.)

Tom


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

I am looking at getting a fingers bow myself. I just dont know what to get. Looking at a Seven 37 or an Elite XXL. A few others as well. Decisions decisions. lol I have never shot a bow to be known. If I shoot a perfect score I am elated cause I did it for me, not somebody else.


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## love fingers (Feb 7, 2009)

*harperman*

you have a great point.....I mostly agree. I shoot a GKF hunters supreme rest and love the heck out of it. Just wish there was something new to fiddle with sometimes. Sometimes wonder if I shouldnt go back to the old Jennings Model-T I cut my teeth on. You make a great point.


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## outdoorsman193 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jim, you and have shot together for a while now out at the shop.....you know as well as I do that almost everyone that steps thru that door is looking for the latest and greastest thing. Now I know I shouldnt be posting this because i'm a release shooter, but in my opinion all those people that are looking for the latest and greatest don't care about fingers because shooting off the string is as old as archery itself is. If someone that is or was a great release shooter went to shooting tabs I think that realease would dye out just because of the same reason evryone started shooting a back tension, the big name pros make it look like it increased there scores. Kody


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## scriv (Jan 31, 2008)

*I agree*



marcusjb said:


> It seems our society cares more about the end than the means. The quickest way to a high score is what matters.[/QUOTE
> 
> After all, Isn't that why compounds have become so popular?


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## 4X-24 BOB (Jul 4, 2003)

I stopped shooting 3D with fingers for this reason !! 300 + shooters at this years Bud shoot in Marshall Mo. ## 1 ## compound finger shooter !  Local indoor is just as bad , more FITA style recurve than FSL .


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## NM_HighPlains (Nov 25, 2005)

Harperman said:


> ...another fella was shooting a Hoyt UltraTec with Fingers...


I'm glad to hear he's doing that. I'm using my old Ultra Tec for fingers too and getting along just great with it that way.


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

i don;t know anything about competition archery, but i've just taken up bowhunting recently, and had a lot of help from friends/relatives/experts etc on getting setup. _everybody_ told me not to bother shooting fingers, except one guy who's been an archer/bowhunter for about 20 odd years, who said only do it if it's truly your passion to finger shoot. but even he said i'd get better accuracy with a release. 
i noticed it was hard to find a good bow for fingers, when i was looking for one.
fingers just seems more authentic, more natural and also there's one less piece of equipment to fail. i reckon it sucks that finger shooters are getting overlooked, when it takes a lot more work to get good groupings off of the ol' digits tha with a release.
do they have a separate competing class for fingers?


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## Okie1bow (Jul 26, 2006)

*Fingers and Releases*

It matters a "bunch" to those "hook" shooters that get beat by finger shootrs, especially FITA style winners!


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

Noobist said:


> i don;t know anything about competition archery, but i've just taken up bowhunting recently, and had a lot of help from friends/relatives/experts etc on getting setup. _everybody_ told me not to bother shooting fingers, except one guy who's been an archer/bowhunter for about 20 odd years, who said only do it if it's truly your passion to finger shoot. but even he said i'd get better accuracy with a release.
> i noticed it was hard to find a good bow for fingers, when i was looking for one.
> fingers just seems more authentic, more natural and also there's one less piece of equipment to fail. i reckon it sucks that finger shooters are getting overlooked, when it takes a lot more work to get good groupings off of the ol' digits tha with a release.
> *do they have a separate competing class for fingers?*


Yes, ASA is Limited and Limited Pro, IBO has HF, MBF, & PMF for the pros.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

I am thinking about trying to make a comeback with fingers but thge biggest problem that I am finding is where to get a longer ATA bow. It looks like I need to find an older model (2003 or older) Hoyt. Not knowing whether my fingers will cooperate causes me not to purchase a newer bow at this time. If I can find a good deal I will at least try for a return if not then I will stay on the darkside.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Rattleman said:


> I am thinking about trying to make a comeback with fingers but thge biggest problem that I am finding is where to get a longer ATA bow. It looks like I need to find an older model (2003 or older) Hoyt. Not knowing whether my fingers will cooperate causes me not to purchase a newer bow at this time. If I can find a good deal I will at least try for a return if not then I will stay on the darkside.


.............Rattleman.......What's wrong with Your Pro Elite??....And Hoyt still makes bows with long A-T-A, and good brace heights...The PSE Moneymaker is great, Martin Scepter's, Bowtech Constitution, and last not least the Barnsdales....Plenty of other bows that I havent mentioned.....COME on Back!....Jim


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

It has always been that way. It is caused by those who are not satisfied with thier ability to shoot and go to any tool that will give them a higher score. It is progress, yes. And why do we finger shooters care? (I am basically a finger shooter) we could use the same crutches (advantages, tools) as the others or we could look at it this way; If I learned to shoot this week I would think releases and compound bows was where it is at and I would have that opinion forever. I learned to shoot in 1949. I can shoot with or without a release, a compound or what ever. the bottom line is: however we perfer to shoot is our preference. It must be remembered that we are all archers and find the commonalities and not the differences.
Archery started in the stonage, would a caveman think I am less of a man because I use a steel broadhead?

conclusion: I care about fingershooters, and release aid shooters, and so long as it looks like archery more power to them.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Harperman said:


> .............Rattleman.......What's wrong with Your Pro Elite??....And Hoyt still makes bows with long A-T-A, and good brace heights...The PSE Moneymaker is great, Martin Scepter's, Bowtech Constitution, and last not least the Barnsdales....Plenty of other bows that I havent mentioned.....COME on Back!....Jim


Only thing wrong witht the Pro Elite is the XT3000 limbs. I am looking for something with at least 44 ATA with a Accu Wheel. When I shot fingers I shot the Aspen at 46 inches. I am currently looking at a Protec with LX PRO limbs. Please don't tell me to shoot fingers with the XT3000 limbs. I just recently went over to the Darkside about 3 years ago after about 17 years of competing in AMFSL. I am either going to shoot a long ATA or just stay with the release. Honestly I am not sure if I can even shoot with the fingers anymore because of Uncle Arthur that resides in my hands after many years of turning wrenches for living. This is why I cannot bring myself to spend a small fortune on a new setup.


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## fingerflinger (Jan 10, 2004)

Rattleman said:


> Only thing wrong witht the Pro Elite is the XT3000 limbs. I am looking for something with at least 44 ATA with a Accu Wheel. When I shot fingers I shot the Aspen at 46 inches. I am currently looking at a Protec with LX PRO limbs. Please don't tell me to shoot fingers with the XT3000 limbs. I just recently went over to the Darkside about 3 years ago after about 17 years of competing in AMFSL. I am either going to shoot a long ATA or just stay with the release. Honestly I am not sure if I can even shoot with the fingers anymore because of Uncle Arthur that resides in my hands after many years of turning wrenches for living. This is why I cannot bring myself to spend a small fortune on a new setup.


The Montega is 46ish with Accu Wheels, although the Pro=Tec woth the LX-Pro limbs would be real hard to beat.

Here's a Montega:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=990319


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Ed, What is your draw length shooting fingers????


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> Ed, What is your draw length shooting fingers????


John not really sure anymore. I am currently working on a deal with a Protec and I hope it will be finalized tonight. If it is then I will get out the XX78 2213 and then call in an order to Lancaster for new a Terry rest a button and lets not forget the clicker. I still have my tab. Who knows what may happen next.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

If I can find your address, I'll send the clicker back.


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## budda2 (Apr 9, 2006)

I shoot both ways and have had my most exciting and memorable moments shooting fingers more sense of accomplishment to me. Nothing like shooting a 300 with fingers!!!!!!! If my dad(uncle gus) sees this give me your barnsdale and I will shoot ya some BIG scores lol.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

My son, you do well at both, but I really don't think you are a finger shooter at heart.... The silver bow is at Barnsdale's right now getting another set of limbs....And it's not silver anymore....It's candy burnt orange....


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

love fingers said:


> What I meant when I said innovation was that basically, the number of manufacturers that are making new epuipment for fingers is really dropping off. We should have more options, You dont see any new rests coming out or any real attention being paid to the future of finger shooting in the industry.





Harperman said:


> .............*Love Fingers...In my opinion, and this is again, just my opinion, new technology isnt really aimed at Finger shooters becuase We either dont need it, or dont want it*...The rest on my Finger bow right now is a Golden Key Star Hunter double blade rest..This arrow rest is older than the '99 model bow that it's mounted on....Slapped it on, eye-balled the center shot, and nock height..made a few shots through paper, made a few adjustments, and in less that 10 minutes, had a nice hole in paper...I can shoot feathers or vanes off this rest, and it's micro-tunable, and quiet...Just as an example....I've talked with ALOT of current Finger shooters, and some fella's that actually were the real deal with Fingers back in the day...Most prefer a bow that shoots between 240-280 f.p.s....What current Bow Manf. wants to develope a new bow that shoots that slow??..I recently got this PSE Mach 9, with round wheels, and Barnsdale carbon limbs...43"-ish ATA, and 8 1/2" brace height...255-260 f.p.s. bow....And I am shooting the heck out of it...It's a bow made with all the good cutting edge technology of the late '90's, and it shoots so well that the $110.00 that I paid for it (along with an extra set of soft wheels to go with it) is almost a crime...Today's new bows are about lighter, shorter, and faster...No fingershooter that I know wants lighter, or shorter, and most folks that I've discussed this with think that 280 f.p.s. is about the upper limit for speed, that can still be shot well with Fingers...All the "OLD" stuff still works GREAT ....And it's really hard to sell folks something that They allready have...I started whittling on a decent Osage stave this past weekend...When I get it done, if I did my part in the construction, it will kill a deer, bear,or elk....I gotta do the shooting, though..This bow design, and material it's made of are prehistoric, but will still kill a critter just as dead as the same gear did 10,000 years ago...L.O.L...Hoyt, PSE, Mathews, Martin and Barnsdale have made some great , shootable bows in the past, and continue to do so today...Rests are still available that will do the job nicely, as well as Stabilizers, and sights and arrows...The area that still leaves room for improvement is mainly in the Materials, I'm waiting for Nano-Carbon limbs that weight next to nothing, and store and deliver 60# worth of energy to an arrow, but at 50# draw weight....THAT WOULD BE A MAJOR IMPROVEMENT FOR A FINGER SHOOTER...As long as the let-off was 50%-60%, anyway.....L.O.L...Jim


Good example is NAP stopping production on the Plungerrest, one of the best finger rests ever designed, just because not enough people bought them which made them too expensive to manufacture and too expensive for shops to hold on the shelves for years at a time. I talked to the NAP reps for the last two ATA's begging them to start them back up and they said that the numbers just didn't justify it. Even with used ones selling for more than new.

But really, as far as rests go, not a lot of innovation left for improvement, because what's worked for the past fifty years is plenty sufficient. With a proper arrow and tune, all you need is the wooden shelf of a selfbow. Businesses need to have new gadgets every year to expand their sales, growth growth growth, and us finger shooters don't need anything new since maybe 1960 and again the compound in the 70s, an a speed bow from the 90's.

But whoever above said something about instant gratification over dedication and a sense of accomplishment in difficult task perfected is spot on about our society.


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## tuffshot (Jan 3, 2004)

The compound finger shooter has been loosing ground for years. While the trigger shooters have been growing, so has their shooting class. It is getting bigger and more competitive every year. 

There are several bows out there if they offer a 65% cam will make a good finger shooting bow. The longer risers and short limbs offer more stability.
Some of the grips could use some more beef for the hand though
What I have noticed though after talking with a few finger shooting competitors is they have changed their shooting style as well as how many fingers on the string. Some have dropped the index finger for a better release and some are down to one finger. That takes a lot of practice!!!! 

The longer bows of days gone by were to keep from torquing the string and offer more forgivness. Today one has to adapt more to the equipment.


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## CT MastersCF (Mar 14, 2009)

*where have all the fingers shooters gone?*

I posted a question a few months ago on the FITA, etc forum asking for a little history, if anyone knows, as to why NAA has CF classes only in the masters divisions? I wondered which came first ... the paucity of CF shooters, which then resulted in the abandoning of CF classes, or the abandonment of CF classes, resulting in fewer CF shooters below the masters level?

During last spring's JOAD mail-in tournament I did see a "compound fingers" class shown somewhere in the Southwest. I wondered if that was a result of a few new archers coming through the NASP program with the Genesis bow.

I didn't start shooting targets until my daughter got involved in JOAD. She was 10 and I was 53, so diving into the masters class was a natural. I used my American 48" ATA hunting bow that I had always shot fingers with a glove (one less thing to drop in the woods). Added a target stabilizer and sight and shot with a tab. Last year I acquired a Hoyt Provantage with carbon limbs. Its actually 1/2" longer than the American, but both are round-wheel bows and both shoot very smooth ... the Hoyt a bit smoother. Hard to find a good case for it though. I bought a double gun case with wheels and redid the interior.

I like the challenge of fingers shooting and the moderate weight on my fingers at anchor (25# or so). Years ago I did shoot a 48# Bear recurve hunting bow, but now I don't want to beat up my fingers that much. But I do enjoy the competition among us old farts nonetheless.

I'll be intersted to see whether the introduction of NASP here in Connecticut last year with 10 pilot school districts brings any interest in CF. Unless NAA reinstates the CF classes at the youth levels, I think it will die a quick death. The transition out of NASP leaves Compound Release, or Recurve (fingers obviously) as the only NAA paths. I wonder how many would stay with CF if there an opportunity for competition other than FSL in NFAA?

I do agree with the folks who commented that it seems to be our American style these days to want instant results without a lot of work. And certainly the accuracy is much better for someone who doesn't have time to practice. Results in more clean kills anyway.

Ray Laramie


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

ttt, Hey folks I talked to a guy who might just help us out. If he does post here like he said he would make sure to get your 2 cents in on what we want in a finger bow, Dan.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I care.

*hugs*


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## Darksider (Apr 14, 2006)

Alright I'll throw in my $.02!
Yes, I shoot fingers(sights)! I tried a release & didn't like it.
IMHO
First, most people who walk into a bow shop doesn't know or cares about FITA or knows who are the top shooters. Mathews does have the catch us if you can & uses total number of 1st, 2nds & 3rds. 
The do watch TV & videos. So, there is marketing.
It's all about getting tighter groups in less time(work/practice) & speed. Instant gratification in today's world. Heck, my dealer has had people walk of the street(figuratively speaking[newbies]) & have them hitting the white on a single spot even a few robinhoods from them.

Back to marketing:
Much more variety & brand completion with a release shooting. That brand competition drives the market. Smaller, smoother faster!! Going from 50% to 65% to 70% to 80% letoff, easy to draw & hold. You can easily hold allot of weight for a long time. *Speed/KE sells bows!!*(I'm a momentum/Ashby fan.) are now over 360-370+. ATAs are shrinking to around 28-33+/- even smaller. I haven't even mentioned competition between release manufactures. Then you have fast arrows, mech heads, etc. It's what the pro hunters are shooting. 
Once a certain percentage of the market switches, then you have a snow ball/bandwagon effect.
So, what we have is;
A release shooter,
60#, 80% let off, with a 33 ATA, parallel limbs bow shooting 320+fps. Shooting dead in the hand(little to no vibration) & many Xs.

or

Finger shooter shooting a 38 -40+ATA bow shooting 65% at 250-270+/-fps. Shooting OK, with a few flyers(mainly due to form or not perfect release), after allot more practice.

So, we'll be lumped in with the trad folk & be thought of as oddballs. Some may call us mad/crazy!! We're sort of the Mac users of the archery world. :sad:
Maybe, we just march to the beat of a different drummer! :smile:


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

funny about that. 
i'm a mac user and an unsighted finger shooter.
lucky i'm right handed

:nod:


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## Manhunter50 (Oct 23, 2006)

*Another former finger shooter...*

As a former finger shooter, believe me, I can relate. I shot with fingers from the time I was twelve until I was almost 52 (I'm now 53); yes, for 40 years. Bowhunted, competed in field, 3-D, and the occasional indoor shoot, won a couple of state championships and beat a fair number of pretty good release shooters in the process. It used to be a rather big deal for a Limited shooter to win a shoot outright, but you're right, no one really cares about it anymore; finger shooters are now a novelty, not _SERIOUS_ shooters.

I would still be shooting fingers were it not for some mild arthritis in my hands and fingers that gets worse the more I shoot. After shooting in an indoor 600 league for a couple of years, I started to develop severe pain and cramping in my bow elbow in and cramping/pain in my string fingers, so I was pretty much forced to make the switch.

Rest assured that those of you who still shoot with fingers have the full respect of at least some of us on the "dark side."


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## Darksider (Apr 14, 2006)

minnie3 said:


> funny about that.
> i'm a mac user and an unsighted finger shooter.
> lucky i'm right handed
> 
> :nod:


2 out of 3!
:laugh::laugh::thumbs_up


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## Darksider (Apr 14, 2006)

Darksider said:


> 2 out of 3!
> :laugh::laugh::thumbs_up


Me:
I shoot a left hand Mathews with fingers.
:embara:
But, I don't own a Mac.


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

never used a release. hope to never use one either. every good shot i make has everything i've got in it lol. more sense of achievement!


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