# Milling Machine



## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Just an FYI - no matter which way you go, you'll be looking at $750-$1000 in just tooling to get started (vise, collets, mills, drills, chuck, etc.). And then another $150 plus for DROs.


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

I am aware of that cost. Thanks. Just wandering if it is better to get a small one first and if so how useful will it be. I'm mean, I'm looking to machine small parts. Around 2x3 or so. 

Levi


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## CNC Machinist (Sep 28, 2003)

John,

*Are you going to share the proceeds with me??*


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

In my experience benchtop machines are a real pain for anything harder than aluminium and perhaps brass. For the money you are looking at there are some really decent uprights available through grizzly.

-Grant


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

what grantmac said. Small machines will have hard time even in aluminum, you will have to machine really slow. If your budget is $4000 then I will spend it all on the machine. Tormach are very good machines but I don't know if they sell anything for $4000


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## MACHINST (Jul 14, 2005)

What grant said,keep an eye out on auctions for tooling,vises and also machines.I would rather spend the tooling money to get a good mill and then grab tools,vises and what not a bit at a time.Watch Craigslist also for tooling,make sure you check prices around the web.McmasterCarr and MSC have decent prices for normal tooling.If you have a local machine shop go and talk to someone there and tell them what you are doing.They may have some tooling to sell thats obsolete to the way their machining practices have evolved to,or may point you in the right direction to help you out.


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## Zweifel (Aug 8, 2012)

I have a Sherline 2000 mill and a Sherline 4400 lathe. They are great machines for the price point. I'm doing mostly small items and working with 7075 aluminum 95% of the time. Bench top machines take time to make parts with, but they are extremely accurate in the right hands. The large machines are kind of a pain to work on small parts with in MY opinion. So if your looking to make small intricate items I'd take a good look at the Sherline stuff. I've had mine for about a year and can't really complain. I know the limits of what the machines are capable of and don't push them. If your planning on working with a lot of steel or other hard metals I'd got for a bigger machine with more power. But if your looking at aluminum with the occational steel projects the Sherline stuff is great.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

Check this site: Little Machine Shop . Few years ago I purchased one of the small manual milling machines and convert it to CNC. Works like charm but was too small for me after I want to make bigger parts. I sold it and start building my own CNC router milling machine the size I need.


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

I have been looking at that site/shop. I really like the largest mini mill. Look like I could get a complete set up for around $1200. Would be the mill and a starter set of tools. The mill that you had, would it mill steel. Like SS or O1 tool steel? Even if it is slow I think I would be ok with that. And if I ever need a bigger one I could still use that for smaller operations and such like. Anybody else have any experance with the little machine shop mills and what they are capable of? Those are what I'm leaning towards at the moment.


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

CNC Machinist said:


> John,
> 
> *Are you going to share the proceeds with me??*


Sure, might not be any for awhile. I'll let you know when I hit break even. Lol


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

In my experience most benchtop mills are about as fast as hand-filing when you start dealing with SS and even worse with tool steel.

-Grant


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

tag
check out the Grizzly machine supply

I have been looking at something like this
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Hea...rill-with-Variable-Speed-and-Power-Feed/G0762


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I bought one of the mini milling machines but to be honest beyond some basic prototyping they just aren't as accurate as I would like. I wish I had the space for a real machine but a one bay garage doesn't offer a lot of options.


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

Thanks guys, after some more looking I am also really liking this Grizzly

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Power-Feed/G0754

Anybody used one of these? It looks like a great upgrade over the LMS one i was looking at. 

Levi


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

If you have the room for it, keep an eye out for a Bridgeport --- there are a lot of them out there and they show up locally fairly regularly in some locales (mine is one, but we have a carport, not a garage, or I'd have one instead of the little hobby-level Shapeoko I bought).

The round column on the Grizzly you linked to may be a problem --- any possibility of moving up to a machine w/ a dovetail way/column?


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

check here http://www.g0704.com/ this guy is very well known in cnc community


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## CNC Machinist (Sep 28, 2003)

If I get a chance, I'll PM you with my thoughts on this. They are way different from what others have said so far........ :mg:


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## AzizaVFR (Jan 28, 2014)

I use to have the bench top X2 mill for about five years. During that time, I made countless single shot adapters, Picatinny rail systems, and inlet several gun stocks for rimfire and centerfire rifles.

Like others, it does have its limitations as far as cutting speed/feed rate. Very sharp tooling is definitely needed. The quality of the cutters dictate how well it will cut. Do not try to use any endmill with larger than 0.500". The amount of chatter will be interesting at best in the harder materials. To get extreme precision take time, patience and getting a DRO for all axis. I sold the entire setup, with the tooling, collets, powerfeed, belt drive conversion, and vice to an airplane mechanic when I acquired my Jet 3HP 9"x49" machine. Before I sold the X2, I used the Jet to fix the nodding issue experienced with the X2's column design. In the picture below, you can see the size difference. The X2 is on the bench.



By the way, I would highly avoid the round column mill/drill machines. When it comes to getting the head trammed to the table is a tool throwing affair.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I found some old videos of my Little Machine Shop mill converted to CNC 
[video]http://s193.photobucket.com/user/krislizak/media/MOV09959.mp4.html[/video]
[video]http://s193.photobucket.com/user/krislizak/media/MOV00343.mp4.html[/video]


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

Thanks for all the reply's so for. I still have a few questions, The round column vs the dove tail one. what is the difference. I get that one is round and one is not, but what issue can you expect with the round? Is it just a pain to deal with, or is it something that should be avoided at all cost. is it something that once you get the hang of will not talk to much time to reset once moved? For the project that i have in mind, I don't see a need to move it, once i have it set up i should not be moving it very often if at all. I am really liking the grizzly G0754, the round column seems to be the only negative and i would like to understand really what that negative is. It seems to have plenty of power, and the power feeds would be really nice to have also. anything that i might be missing with this one? 

I would love to get a bridgeport, and hopefully will one day, but we are looking at a Job change and passable moving, right now i have shop to put it in, but that might not be the case is we end up moving. 

CNC, yes please send me your thoughts on this, I would love to hear them. 

Levi


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

My experience is the round column flexea too much for any real accuracy.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

I believe the difference is accuracy. Maybe the round column has tendency to rotate left or right a little. Personally I would pick one that has dovetail column.


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## KenHo (Apr 14, 2014)

Levi, you're going thru what I did a few months ago looking for a mill. It really seems like the X2 and X3 are about the best "bang for buck" in the hobby lineup. The X2 is the G0704 Grizzly and X3 the G0619. There are two things that limit a selection, budget and weight. The more budget and the more weight the better the mill. Since I was "trying" to stay in the $2K range AND the weight range that would allow me to move and setup alone, I sorta figured 400 to 500 lb was about my limit. Did wish to stay away from round column (due to reading/advise, not personal experience) the Grizzly G0619 seemed to fit the bill pretty good. I've been happy with my choice. Sure, I'd like to have a 2,000 lb bridgeport, and they can be found for a decent price. BUT - need a forklift or crane to move one!

Tooling can also be on a budget - I've got perhaps $300 in tooling (vise, endmills, fly cutter, etc). Is that enough for a complete machine shop? Heck no - but it does get me going and as I find a project where I need something, I'll do that then. The G0619 will take a .050" depth X 1/2" wide cut thru aluminum with no problem. In stainless steel, just take a smaller cut and it still works.

Good luck and have fun

Ken H>


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## owl (May 28, 2004)

I have a round column mill. The downside is that the head can rotate and spoil your work. One thing that helps is to replace the lock bolts with fine thread for greater clamping power. If I had found a square column when I bought my mill, I would have probably gone that way, but I find it very useable. The upside of a round column is that you can rotate the head and drill alongside the table when a large piece needs drilling. A Bridgeport is out of the question for me, as my shop is in a basement, and the machine I use needed to be carried down a flight of stairs, but if you are in a position where you have the room, and access, and floor load capacity, sometimes bridgeports (several tons in weight) do come on the market for a reasonable price.


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## AzizaVFR (Jan 28, 2014)

Actually the setup is not that back for my mill weighing at 2500lbs. My wife and I moved the entire thing with a couple of pinch bars, 1" heavy wall pipes, heavy duty floor dollies, and hydraulic jacks. The only thing we had to rent was a 8000lbs fork lift to get the mill out of the Uhaul truck after moving it from my dad's place in Texas to Arizona. The Grizzly G0709 14"x40" lathe was handled the same way. Most of the machines will come with space recommendations. 

Sometimes I do miss the portability of the mini-lathe and mill. I could pick them up, put them in the car, and work at my friends house.


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## DEER MEAT (Feb 1, 2006)

I would keep a serious eye out for a good used machine. I got this machine, a vise and boxes of collets and tooling for scrap price!! About a 1/4 of the price of the grizzly bench top machine you linked to. You will be much happier in the future if you get a full size machine from the get go. The only investment I made in this mill was a VFD to power the 3 hp. 3 phase motor, and the 3 axis DRO set-up.And Iam still way below $1700 total investment.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

^^^ great deal! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

Good stuff here! I think we need an "Advanced DIY" section for stuff like this, some guys just want to glue PVC together, lol!! Anyway, I do my own milling with Drill press, band saw, bench grinder, angle grinder, hand files, and buffer wheel... needless to say I would love to have a nice milling machine and lathe, and the room to keep it!


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## PaulME (Jun 11, 2014)

Hey a topic I have a fair bit of experience in (engineering background and decent home metal shop).

You need to decide what you want to do with it and do you want accuracy. 
yes it is possible to do good work on these cheap benchtop mills lathes but you need to realize that they are basically toys. When you are looking for accuracy you need a rigid platform and that means a LOT of mass. Bridgeport type knee mills are nice but they have real limitations as far as metal removal goes as well, but if you pick up a used one you should be able to sell it for what you bought it for.

I don't know about your area but start looking in craigslist, as others have noted you should be able to get a questionable one for ~1K a nice one for about $2K if you know what to look for and a rescraped one for ~$3K. If you have the room I would go with a Bridgeport or clone, get a belt drive version (not the vari speed head) and a VFD drive (variable frequency drive - regular single phase in and 3 phase variable frequency out which allows you to adjust speed via frequency). Learn to use it as is, then add a DRO in the future should you have the funds and need/desire.

This is for a manual machine - if you want to do fancy complex curves you'll need to go to CNC - lots more $$
Since the commercial shops are mostly CNC now you can pick up super high quality manual stuff for pennies on the dollar. I started with a little south bend 9" added a monarch lathe, bridgeport, a universal 5HP mill, 2 surface grinders, and the latest addition a swiss jig bore.
Paul


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## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

You guys have some great setups. I took a bunch of classes n CAD/CAM in college and we got to play with some of the equipment but it's been 10 years. I doubt I could even figure out how to turn on one of the new machines let alone set up a program. I'd love a manual table top milling machine for home.


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## trackboss (Feb 16, 2010)

All good information here. I currently don't have a mill, but I do have a lathe and want to suggest you look around for an emco mill if you really want something small. Emco mills typically came as an option with their lathes. A retired machinist friend has one that he stand alone mounted and really likes it. The emco stuff is a bit hard to find as it is no longer made, but has a pretty good following. It's all very high quality made in Austria. 
Here is a great source of information:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/


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## PaulME (Jun 11, 2014)

If you feel you need small also look for a Hardinge mill (Hardinge is still in business so there is likely at least some support for this.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/cataract miller/index.html

Be aware that you will pay a big premium for the small machines in the used market. This is because they fit in a small space and are popular with home shop types and they are less intimidating to move.

As an example the tiny Sanford surface grinders can frequently bring $2000+ while larger ones can easily be had for $500-1000 in the northeast.
Paul


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

After looking around locally have i found this bridge port. the shop is closed and they are selling there machines. I was told that the bearing in the head is out and would need to be replaced and that the air chuck was broken during transit. I have not had a chance to look at it yet. I would like to get some opinions on how hard the head bearing is. I'm not sure which one or if there are more than one. I will get some numbers and call around and see if i can find a bearing and cost. Let me know what yall think and what you think it is worth.


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

Deer Meat, that is a heck of a deal on that set up. 

Levi


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## DEER MEAT (Feb 1, 2006)

If this machine is a decent price I would not let the bad bearings scare me away. There are 3 items against the wall that belong to a lathe so don't let them sell you that stuff as part of the deal. The 2 axis rotary table near those 3 items would be money well spent as an item for the mill.


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

Deer Meat, where did you get your VFD and if you don't mind me asking how much did it cost you and was the wiring it up straight forward or would i need to enlist the help of a electrician?

I made an offer on that machine, sight unseen, with the option to back out once i see it. So now i need to find out what added cost will be added if i do end up getting it. you can PM me the cost if you want to. Thanks. 

And thanks for the heads up on the Lathes parts. I know that 2 of those were and that the table was for the mill, but was not sure about the one on the bottom right. 

Levi


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

CNC Machinist said:


> If I get a chance, I'll PM you with my thoughts on this. They are way different from what others have said so far........ :mg:



============
Hello All

Smile------[ Later


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## DEER MEAT (Feb 1, 2006)

PM sent Mr. Wayne


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## PaulME (Jun 11, 2014)

Bottom right item is a lathe tailstock - don't know what type from the picture.
If they want to throw in those parts take them - the steady rests should bring about $100 ea if you dont know what they go to or possibly up to about 3-400 if you do and they are desirable/rare. Similarly the tailstock can bring ~100-500.

The tilting rotary table looks like it may be a SIP - would match my jig bore if it is (meaning I would probably buy it off you if you consider selling). Regular rotary table is typically better on a mill as the surface is larger, can mount bigger parts etc. Also if it is a SIP it is WAY more accurate than the mill. 

There are plenty of threads on the web on rebuilding a Bridgeport head - what is your level of comfort on working on precision mechanical asemblies? The bearings will not be cheap - precision angular contact are what is required, although as expensive as Bridgport bearings are they are much cheaper than what you would find on some other machine tools.

Also looks like a Comet mill which I think is a Bridgeport clone (Quick looking indicates it MAY use standard bridgport parts for most thing - which would be good, as you may not be able to source Comet parts as I don't think they exist anymore. Again quick look indicates it is probably Taiwan (which made decent stuff in that era), heavier than a standard bridgport by the looks of it, again probably a good thing. Cloes like this should go for less than a bridgeport - name recognition pushes actual Bridgeport prices higher.

For VFD's check automation direct - reasonable prices and decent support over the phone. If you are comfortable wiring in a branch circut (220)you can probably do your own wiring. Size abnd price will depend on the motor on the mill - is it 1hp? 1.5hp? 2hp?

Feel free to send me a PM or email.

Paul


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

PaulMe, Thanks for the info. I am fairly comfortable with the wiring, once i get the understanding of where we are headed with it. On the replacement bearing, I feel that i could handle that assuming i can find the correct bearing and all. 

On the Lathe Parts in the picture, They go to an American Pacemaker 14x54 that i might get in a package deal. Anyone out there need a lathe like this. I would be inclined to move it. I would love to keep it, but do not need to keep them both.


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## PaulME (Jun 11, 2014)

Ooo American pacemaker really nice lathe!! - does it have the 2K rpm top speed (they had 3 versions low speed 1K rpm top end med 1.5Krpm and high speed 2Krpm). I am partial to the art deco look they have which is along the lines of Monarch.

pictures and info on the lathes UK site http://www.lathes.co.uk/pacemaker/

Passed on one locally that I probably should have grabbed. No room now with the Sip MP-3K jig bore.
Paul

Paul


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

I should be getting to check these out tomorrow. From there i will have to make a decision on these. 

If i get them I will have to start a thread on the set up and process. 

Levi


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## DEER MEAT (Feb 1, 2006)

Sounds good Levi. Hope it works out for you!!


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

OK, I was able to stop by and look at them both a an hour or so. Here are my finding. 

The bearing is not the issue in the head, I spoke to the guy that ran it, the shims that are under the pullies are what needs to be adjusted, and teh bearing could be changed while I'm in there. I dont feel that this is a big issue and could be easily fixed during clean up. Does that sound about right?

The knee handle has been broken, looked like the haft was broken and i would need to buy a new shaft for it. Also the powerfeed on the knee i could not get to work, The on/off swith seems t o be broken off, So i will need to get a new shaft to be able to put the handle back on. I was hopeing to at least see it move. Where would i start looking for this shaft?

The draw bar would either need to be replaced with a standard one or a Air chuck would need to be reinstalled, this one is missing and the splined drawbar is in there right now, unless i could find a splined wrench that would fit it. But for $30 bucks or so i would probably just get a standard drawbar for the time being. 

These are the 3 issues that would need to be addressed to have it up and running. 

Over all it looks to be in good shape, you can tell it has been sitting for a while, but the table moved in a full range easily, So now the fun begains. got to get it moved, and cleaned up. then powered on and humming. 

PaulMe, you were correct on the SIP table. Shot me PM and we can discuss that part there. 

Levi


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## DEER MEAT (Feb 1, 2006)

Sounds like your bearing problem isn't as bad as planned. I would change those bearings anyways...those would be the cheapest in the head.

I would play with the power feed and see if you can get it to work before going manual. You will love a Z axis power feed! !! You should be able to make or repair the shaft for the Z

If the spindle has an air Chuck that would be great to get working also. If not a standard draw bar is cheap and will get you making chips. 

Congratulations on scoring the machine. You should be able to sell that sip table for enough to cover all the repair costs you may have. Those are high precision units and bring good money!!! Investigate what they sell for before setting a price.


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## TargetShooter2 (Dec 10, 2010)

whats the dollar amount for that Mill anyway ??

if it aint butt cheap i would pass , there is just a boat load of machines to choose 
from on the market that is turn key ready to go .

i dont run a VFD on my 3 phase machines i run a 15 hp 
rotary phase conveter meets my 3 phase needs on machines 
in my shop , 

TS2


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## PaulME (Jun 11, 2014)

No Idea how good a deal you are onto as you have not given us any info on price. I noted what some prices would be in New England. For a machine that needs work I would look for a big discount - like $500 for the whole machine (what I paid for an Abene that needs work).

I would not bother with a power draw bar just get a regular one.

Replace the bearings while you are in there as others have said.

The power feeds, it will depend on whether they are Servo brand (US) or far east clones. If far east parts may not be available, but a replacement would be on the order of $150 - 200 (the knee needs the largest torque drive). You can also just crank the knee manually, on a tipical bridgeport and clone it is a removable handle with castled notches, If using table feeds you put the handle on backwards (after adjusting the knee) so you don't run into it. If it needs a new knee shaft I would try to find out if the bridgeport parts fit for certain, if not you may be in a situation where you need to make parts yourself (Not that big a deal if you have the equipment).

I will send you a PM 
Paul


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## TargetShooter2 (Dec 10, 2010)

you can also use the drill trick on the knee in place of the handle


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## John Wayne (Dec 27, 2006)

I believe the Power feeds are Servo brands, I really believe that the issue is the on/off switch is missing, so there is not power to it. So I'm hoping that a new switch will correct that issue, That and an new shaft that is broken. I was able to get it to move just a hair with pliers so I do not believe that it is frozen. They are offering this as a package deal, The Comet mill, and the American PaceMaker Lathe, it is the 1500 max RPM model. I would say that this is a OK deal, not great, but in the same price range as several mills i have seen with out the DRO and power feeds. 

Levi


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## DEER MEAT (Feb 1, 2006)

Sounds good Levi! I would jump on it!


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## Borgy76 (Nov 5, 2013)

AzizaVFR said:


> I use to have the bench top X2 mill for about five years. During that time, I made countless single shot adapters, Picatinny rail systems, and inlet several gun stocks for rimfire and centerfire rifles.
> 
> Like others, it does have its limitations as far as cutting speed/feed rate. Very sharp tooling is definitely needed. The quality of the cutters dictate how well it will cut. Do not try to use any endmill with larger than 0.500". The amount of chatter will be interesting at best in the harder materials. To get extreme precision take time, patience and getting a DRO for all axis. I sold the entire setup, with the tooling, collets, powerfeed, belt drive conversion, and vice to an airplane mechanic when I acquired my Jet 3HP 9"x49" machine. Before I sold the X2, I used the Jet to fix the nodding issue experienced with the X2's column design. In the picture below, you can see the size difference. The X2 is on the bench.
> 
> ...



How do you like the Jet machine? Someday would like to put a bridgeport in the garage, I know Jet's are a cheaper option. Do you find it to be pretty solid, how is the backlash?


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## AzizaVFR (Jan 28, 2014)

Borgy76 said:


> How do you like the Jet machine? Someday would like to put a bridgeport in the garage, I know Jet's are a cheaper option. Do you find it to be pretty solid, how is the backlash?


It is absolutely awesome. Before I received it, my dad used it for 10 years creating custom 1911's, bolt action rifles, and many custom firearms (look on snipershide.com for reference). It cost me more in gas than it did the truck rental, driving it from North of Dallas to Red Rock, AZ. The backlash after 16 years of use is 0.008" on the X-axis, 0.006" on the Y-axis. I have not even touched the half-nuts. I have been able to get the head trammed with 0.0001" over an 18" circle with the quill fully extended. I try to hold all cutting operations to the resolution of the DRO, +/- 0.0002".

I can recommend any of the Jet series of milling machines in this class without any hesitation. The DRO should be a requirement, not an option. It allows for much easier operation, with your head up looking at the display and work, and you do not worry about the backlash as much. The Meehanite casting keeps me from worrying about it.

To give you a sample of what this machines sounds like cutting, here is a video of it in operation
Jet vertical milling bow press fingers 
This was taken while making another set of fingers to fit the Last Chance Archery press. The stream of chips and pile it produced afterward was beautiful.


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