# The Official Young Archers Forum!!!



## HoytShooterX

Hey all you young archers out there. I mainly created this thread to just ahng out and talk. Posten has his so i just decided to make one up!:shade:


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## outdoorsman3

hello. whts up?


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## need-a-bow

Kinda like the mutantville bar but for under 18?


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## outdoorsman3

cool idea.


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## corpralbarn

need-a-bow said:


> Kinda like the mutantville bar but for under 18?


 Yep only rootbeer and virgin margaritas here.


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## Ignition kid

ya but I am drinking sweet tea !


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## need-a-bow

Man I miss rootbeer. The closest I can get here in mexico is Dr. Pepper but its not the same


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## skulzhead

need-a-bow are you hunting in mexico


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## outdoorsman3

***?? no rootbeer in mexico?? they crazzy


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## isaacdahl

skulzhead said:


> need-a-bow are you hunting in mexico


Hey, skulzhead!

I haven't seen you around on here for a while. How's it going?


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## need-a-bow

skulzhead said:


> need-a-bow are you hunting in mexico


I actually live here, I moved here abut 2 years ago, and probably moving back. Ive gone hunting(with a rifle) here before but ont have a chance now. Ill be moving back at the end of the semester(too much violence) to Illinois


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## need-a-bow

outdoorsman3 said:


> ***?? no rootbeer in mexico?? they crazzy


Thats why every time my parents are in texas they have to bring me a 2 liter bottle of Mug or A&W


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## HoytShooterX

Hey guys. i thot this was a good idea. Thanx..


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## HoytShooterX

need-a-bow said:


> I actually live here, I moved here abut 2 years ago, and probably moving back. Ive gone hunting(with a rifle) here before but ont have a chance now. Ill be moving back at the end of the semester(too much violence) to Illinois


 You got that right. all that stuff happening down there....... Scary!!!!:embara::sad:


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## need-a-bow

HoytShooterX said:


> You got that right. all that stuff happening down there....... Scary!!!!:embara::sad:


I guess ive become kinda immune to it. I see like certain neighborhoods in chicago, but its a lot safer in the states


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## HoytShooterX

It is alot safer in the states. Chicago and New York have been seein alot of activity


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## Ignition kid

ya I like rootbeer but what's better is Sasparilla idk if I spelt that right, it is root beer but it tastes better to me.


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## need-a-bow

Yup its just a certain type of root beer, Ive tasted a few different ones, only liked 2


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## HoytShooterX

Never heard of it...... Idk. Ill have to try it


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## corpralbarn

need-a-bow said:


> Man I miss rootbeer. The closest I can get here in mexico is Dr. Pepper but its not the same


Dr. Pepper is like catnip to me! I love it.


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## outdoorsman3

need-a-bow said:


> I actually live here, I moved here abut 2 years ago, and probably moving back. Ive gone hunting(with a rifle) here before but ont have a chance now. Ill be moving back at the end of the semester(too much violence) to Illinois


where at in illinois? or not sure


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## need-a-bow

Ill be movin to wheaton, Illionios. Its a northwest chicago suburb. I hope I dont get lost in highschool, next year im a junior


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## outdoorsman3

cool, im like 40 minutes from wheaton, im gonna be a sophmore next year.


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## muzzyman1212

need-a-bow said:


> Ill be movin to wheaton, Illionios. Its a northwest chicago suburb. I hope I dont get lost in highschool, next year im a junior


Ill be a junior next year too.


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## hoytarcherygal

god yall make me feel old ill be senior next year!


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## arhoythunter

I'll be reentering high school. Left elementery in 6th. 7th high school and this year they got the new middle school built so I'mma in middle school now and will be reentering high school next year


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## N7709K

monster or rockstar here.. gotta live a little

its a weird feeling to be a "senior" around here


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## hoytarcherygal

i know what you mean Jake, as soon as our seniors leave the juniors kind of take on that roll. Talk about getting senioritis too early lol


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## need-a-bow

The bad thing about highschool next year is Im gonna be moving in january to start the semester and Ive never been to my future highschool except for football games. Last time I had to change classrooms every class was in 8th grade.


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## hoytarcherygal

lol it will be wierd then but im sure you will get used to it


need-a-bow said:


> The bad thing about highschool next year is Im gonna be moving in january to start the semester and Ive never been to my future highschool except for football games. Last time I had to change classrooms every class was in 8th grade.


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## need-a-bow

I probably will. I just hope I dont have to sit next to crying kids like in middle school


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## hoytarcherygal

lol well atleast in my HS we dont have that we just have all the drama lol what grade are you in if you dont mind me askin?


need-a-bow said:


> I probably will. I just hope I dont have to sit next to crying kids like in middle school


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## N7709K

this is from this past weekend.. i'm the one reppin hoyt


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

ill trow in some pics.


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## N7709K

first one is the family.. well, not all technically family but close enough.... minus my old man on a trip to chena. Its like 20degree out

the next two were from vegas


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## need-a-bow

hoytarcherygal said:


> lol well atleast in my HS we dont have that we just have all the drama lol what grade are you in if you dont mind me askin?


Im in 10th grade, although here in mexico high school is only 10th, 11th and 12th grade.


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

jacob, pic #1 from Vegas, as the the Inspirational Archer Matt in the pic?


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## N7709K

yep, i shot one person over from matt.. i got a pic of him at full draw i'll throw up later

he's a really cool guy


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## HoytShooterX

:star::shade:Hey guys. Sorry i havent been on lately. Just with all the skool and csap and all these things. Lol. I got pics of my new hoyt finally. Its an 08 hoyt ultraelite in a hot pink middle to cady raspberry fade outwards. My dad said if im man enough to shoot it, hell built it!!!!:shade:


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## need-a-bow

Anybody know what happened to Dwill? he hasnt posted since January


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## N7709K

got this little beauty today.. the one that looks close on #1 spot did cut, i have witnesses...


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## need-a-bow

N7709K said:


> got this little beauty today.. the one that looks close on #1 spot did cut, i have witnesses...


Nice. If only i had training wheels....Maybe id hit the target and not the wall behind it:wink:


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## hoytarcherygal

oh nice atleast its not like ur senior year or anything


need-a-bow said:


> Im in 10th grade, although here in mexico high school is only 10th, 11th and 12th grade.


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## N7709K

gotta keep this thing running... so up to the top it is

anyone got ideas for things to do? maybe a friendly target comp?


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## bow hunter11

you guys make me feel young because i'll only be an eighth grader next year.


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## N7709K

dont feel bad, we were all that age

weren't we


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## bow hunter11

do you have any kids in your class or high school that cry during class because i do.


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## N7709K

yeah, got some girls that do....


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## arhoythunter

Heck ya I got this one kid that crys cause he makes Ds. Ya so what?


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## bow hunter11

well we have a kid in our class who flirts with the 40 year old teacher, and he cries if we tell him to do something during class .


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## awirtz26

lol thats funny


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## outdoorsman3

does anyone know what is :bs:............... algebra.


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## N7709K

got an idea for a fun shoot.. ace of spades at 50yds, one 5 arrow practice end before you shoot then a one arrow shot closest to center.. vid or witness to shot its legit?

what yall think?


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## outdoorkid1

Sounds like fun.


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## outdoorsman3

ill join, but Im gonna be horrible :banana:


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## arhoythunter

I miss 6th and 7th grade. I had good looking teachers.


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## need-a-bow

I got a question for all you guys that finally got facial hair. Do your parents make you shave? My moms always telling me to shave everyday


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## N7709K

nope, your gf might

It sucks at first cause it doesn't come in all at once


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## muzzyman1212

I shave once a week if not I look like goat man. haha


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## arhoythunter

Lol That's funny. I shave Maybe 2-3 times a week


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## need-a-bow

I usually shave 2-3 times a week but I didnt shave for 2 weeks while my parents were out of town and now theyre freaking out because I dont shave. I think I wait for a whole month then just shave on side to see how it looks


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## corpralbarn

N7709K said:


> monster or rockstar here.. gotta live a little
> 
> its a weird feeling to be a "senior" around here


Rockstar for me but only every once in a while.... too expensive! ill be a Junior next year.


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## N7709K

here's from yesterday with the new release and outdoor setup


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## N7709K

Oh, and the above pic was after a monster.. they don't get to me anymore


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## N7709K

sightin in the 3d rig today.. 

i'd say she's good at 50yds


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## hoytarcherygal

nice jake!


N7709K said:


> sightin in the 3d rig today..
> 
> i'd say she's good at 50yds


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## N7709K

bumpin this up....

i understand its minnesota and all, but it snowed yesterday.... really sucked


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## need-a-bow

I need a Monster!


N7709K said:


> Oh, and the above pic was after a monster.. they don't get to me anymore


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> bumpin this up....
> 
> i understand its minnesota and all, but it snowed yesterday.... really sucked


70 degrees here in Nebraska today


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## hoytarcherygal

its been like 40 and raining the last two weeks here. supposed to be nice tomorrow just in time for Prom  and then nice on saturday just in time for archery  haha


N7709K said:


> bumpin this up....
> 
> i understand its minnesota and all, but it snowed yesterday.... really sucked


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## isaacdahl

Ok guys, I need some arrows. I'll be using them for 3D and backyard shootin'.

What should I get: Fatboys or Lightspeeds?

I have a poll about this on the 3D forums, and so far FB's are winning but I still can't make up my mind.


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> sightin in the 3d rig today..
> 
> i'd say she's good at 50yds


I see you're shooting Lightspeeds there Jake.

Didn't you vote for Fatboys over on the 3D Forum?:confused3:


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## arhoythunter

Victories work for me


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## need-a-bow

I got a question for all you guys shooting training wheels. About how much does a 3D/spots set-up cost? Im getting into recurve shooting but have an old Browning compound that needs a new string and some liquid wrench to remove the rusty sight and Ive coonsidered buying a newer compound and learning how to shoot both(posibly set up a wheel bow to get my dad shooting)


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## need-a-bow

It been about 37 degrees celsius(about 100 farenheit) here in Zacatecas since about 2 weeks ago. and im 2700 meters above sea level.


hoytarcherygal said:


> its been like 40 and raining the last two weeks here. supposed to be nice tomorrow just in time for Prom  and then nice on saturday just in time for archery  haha


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## bow hunter11

need-a-bow said:


> It been about 37 degrees celsius(about 100 farenheit) here in Zacatecas since about 2 weeks ago. and im 2700 meters above sea level.



We were palyin baseball today for p.e. and i was sweating so much cuz i wasnt used to 70F weather


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## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Ok guys, I need some arrows. I'll be using them for 3D and backyard shootin'.
> 
> What should I get: Fatboys or Lightspeeds?
> 
> I have a poll about this on the 3D forums, and so far FB's are winning but I still can't make up my mind.


Goldtip ultralight pro's or lightspeeds, I have never messed with fatboys but im sure there good too.


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## N7709K

yep, i did.. because it was in the 3d forum

outside of strictly a 3d arrow, i'd go lightspeeds all around.. the buck the wind better and still tear it up for indoors


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## need-a-bow

How about some X-10's?:wink:


N7709K said:


> yep, i did.. because it was in the 3d forum
> 
> outside of strictly a 3d arrow, i'd go lightspeeds all around.. the buck the wind better and still tear it up for indoors


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## N7709K

when i'm shooting those i'll use em for 3d.. but they are kinda overkill


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## need-a-bow

Their only about $500. You only risk losing the value of your release(i think) everytime you nock an arrow. I wonder what people would think if I shot a $20 youth bow and x-10 protours.


N7709K said:


> when i'm shooting those i'll use em for 3d.. but they are kinda overkill




Before someone tells me im crazy I know that x-10's are probably a bad choice for 3D and probably useless as far as value outside of FITA archery


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## N7709K

x10's are a good solid arrow and i have no issue with shooting them for 3d.

i just don't like the startup cost to get them


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## hoytarcherygal

omg lol ive been in 100+ degree weather here in the states for about a week at a time and will pass lol


need-a-bow said:


> It been about 37 degrees celsius(about 100 farenheit) here in Zacatecas since about 2 weeks ago. and im 2700 meters above sea level.


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## hoytarcherygal

if i could shoot like you jake..........man...haha


N7709K said:


> here's from yesterday with the new release and outdoor setup


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> yep, i did.. because it was in the 3d forum
> 
> outside of strictly a 3d arrow, i'd go lightspeeds all around.. the buck the wind better and still tear it up for indoors


Yeah, I decided to go with Lightspeeds. The place I shoot is almost always really windy so I thought I'd benefit from those more than the Fatboys.

Now only if the shop owner would answer his phone so I could place an order. I might just by them off the internet instead of waiting for him to pick up his phone.


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## N7709K

what you could do, Isaac, is get a half doz 9.3's and a half doz lightspeeds and see which shoot better for you out of your setup... or have both


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## need-a-bow

Do you ever go to lake michigan in the summer? We go every year(not this last year since we were in mexico) for the 4th of july. The water is so cold and outside of the water the heats unbearable but its so much fun.


hoytarcherygal said:


> omg lol ive been in 100+ degree weather here in the states for about a week at a time and will pass lol


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> what you could do, Isaac, is get a half doz 9.3's and a half doz lightspeeds and see which shoot better for you out of your setup... or have both


Good idea, I'll have to look into that.


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## N7709K

9.3's are the fatboys that don't make spec for straightness.. but they are the same shaft, they are like $55 a doz for shafts so if you go half and half its a good deal. 

if nothign else you have half doz for indoors and half doz for outdoors


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## hoytarcherygal

haha yeah ive been to lake michigan plenty of times lol it is freeeeezing haha but its sweet too


need-a-bow said:


> Do you ever go to lake michigan in the summer? We go every year(not this last year since we were in mexico) for the 4th of july. The water is so cold and outside of the water the heats unbearable but its so much fun.


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## N7709K

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=77874&page=1

came across this today.. idk if it will help anyone, but its a good read


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## N7709K

first time i've shot at more than 8yds in a two weeks-ish

first 3 at 60yds tonight after work, showin my target bow to one of my friends


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> first time i've shot at more than 8yds in a two weeks-ish
> 
> first 3 at 60yds tonight after work, showin my target bow to one of my friends


Dude. you are so going pro. I wish I could shoot like that every time at 60 yards


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## need-a-bow

I cant hit that at 10yds. Im really considering getting a wheelbow and even more when I see your scores even though I wont shoot nearly as good


N7709K said:


> first time i've shot at more than 8yds in a two weeks-ish
> 
> first 3 at 60yds tonight after work, showin my target bow to one of my friends


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## N7709K

i can't quite pull it off everytime, but i'm gettin closer


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> first time i've shot at more than 8yds in a two weeks-ish
> 
> first 3 at 60yds tonight after work, showin my target bow to one of my friends


Nice! 

Were you using a lens? If not, how the heck could you see that circle at 60yds!?

Very nice shootin' my friend!


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## isaacdahl

Another question...

Were those you're Lighspeeds you were shootin'? Mine should be here any day now then I can finally do some serious shooting.


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## N7709K

Yep those are my lightspeeds, they are shootin really good outta the VE+. Had to play a little to get tuning right, but after I did they shoot very nice. Haven't shot them through paper, but with how its shootin I'm not gonna change anything if I shoot it through paper.

I was shooting my truespot doublevision kit, remind me and I'll get pics up of it tonight, but I'm using an orange outer lens with a 3/8" drilled center and a straight 6x. At 20yds all I see is the white on a blue face. At 60yds I see about a 10-11" fov through the center magnified spot. I also have a reg truespot in 6x 3/8" and 1/4", 4x 3/8", and a black 3/8" lense for my double vision kit.

When I shoot pins, and the pic I have from 50yds, I use .010 green pins. Either one of the 7 in my hunting sight or the single green one in my truespot(45degree out from about 4:30). At 50yds I don't quite cover the white on a blueface with a .010 pin

As far as seeing the arrows/circle at 60yds its not too bad. I usually shoot 6 arrow groups with the target rig but the first two were in the spot and the third was just low half-shaft liner. I could see the three arrows so that's why I stopped shooting


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## outdoorkid1

Here's my 60 yard group. It's nothing like N7709K's but i'm getting there.


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## N7709K

That ain't a bad group at 60yds by anymeans especially with pins.

Do your groups have vertical string a good part of the time?


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> That ain't a bad group at 60yds by anymeans especially with pins.
> 
> Do your groups have vertical string a good part of the time?


No, there usually not that vertical. They are more spread out verticaly then they are horizontally though. Is this because of tuning issues? I paper tuned and got bare shafts to get bullet holes at 6ft and 12ft, and My broadheads will group the same with my field points at 60 yards, so I'm not to worried about it, but is there a way of tuning so there not spread out as much vertically?. And also It is shooting to the left because I'm shooting on the side of a hill and My sight level broke of when turkey hunting so I'm not holding it Striaght up and down causing it to go somewhat left and I know its walk back tuned perfectly so that isn't the problem.


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## isaacdahl

Hey Jacob, 

Just reminding you to post up some pics of you're truespot's.

Thanks


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## N7709K

I'll get em up in 5 min.. give me a sec to get pics

Outdoor,

It might be tuning, but since you have a single cam there is only so much tuning you can do, but i would check and make sure your cam is at the timing marks and not over/under rotated.

I'm guessing tho that it comes down to the hold pattern being kinda sweeping and not holding super steady in one spot


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## N7709K

sorry that took longer than expected.. i had to go do something for work real quick.

in the pics the smoke lens is a -6x 3/8 outer for the double vision kit. the orange one is also a -6x 3/8 outer for a double vision kit. the outer ring on the left is the standard ring for either a straight glass lens or a truespot lens. the other two rings are for the double vision kit.

the pin scope is setup with a green .010 pin and a blue level. both shoot great and both have the same poi


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## need-a-bow

Fancy looking


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## isaacdahl

Cool, thanks for the pics.

I like the idea of the truespots for indoor use. It would make it a lot easier to forget the pin and just concentrate on a spot. That's something I've been working on lately and it seems to only work half the time. The other half of the time the pin detracts me and I end up with a less than perfect shot.

I suppose after a while of practicing I'll get the technique down.


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## corpralbarn

Nice!!


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## N7709K

isaacdahl said:


> Cool, thanks for the pics.
> 
> I like the idea of the truespots for indoor use. It would make it a lot easier to forget the pin and just concentrate on a spot. That's something I've been working on lately and it seems to only work half the time. The other half of the time the pin detracts me and I end up with a less than perfect shot.
> 
> I suppose after a while of practicing I'll get the technique down.


Not a problem.. if i could get good pics of what the sight picture looks like i would, but i can't really..

They are great for indoor, outdoor, 3d, etc.. you just center what you want to hit in the magnified part and focus on that. no pin to blur out, be too dark, too bright. you just pick your spot and shoot at that spot. 

When you have a shot that doesn't come together, let down. Reset, take a couple deep breaths, calm your heart rate and relax. Then start your shot process again and focus on the x, let the pin float on the x, but don't focus on the pin. if/when your eye switches to the pin, let down and start over. I have this problem at times too, so its not just you


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## N7709K

well it looks like i might be pickin up a new bow monday


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## need-a-bow

OOOO. We need pics(I have no wheel bow so I have to imagine I have one)


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## N7709K

called the shop.. i got a bow sittin there with my name on it, we don't know why its there.. i ordered it dec 1, then changed the order... but anyhow i got a blackout alphaelite sittin at the shop for me


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> called the shop.. i got a bow sittin there with my name on it, we don't know why its there.. i ordered it dec 1, then changed the order... but anyhow i got a blackout alphaelite sittin at the shop for me


You have too many bows. Can I have one of your left overs :teeth:


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## N7709K

any of you guys shooting epics? if so how do you like them? how do they hold up?


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## isaacdahl

I've used epics the lasts couple years for hunting and shot 2 deer with them. As for durablility, both arrows were broken when I found them, but everyone else that shoots them says they're really durable. 

I've missed targets and sent them out in to fields before and have never broken one that way. But I have broken quite a few shootin' at the same dot, so for me, they've always shot really well.

Not sure what I'll use for hunting this year, I think I might try HTA HT-1's. Not because I don't like epics...just want to ytr something different. But who know, I may end up using them because I know they're a good arrow.


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> called the shop.. i got a bow sittin there with my name on it, we don't know why its there.. i ordered it dec 1, then changed the order... but anyhow i got a blackout alphaelite sittin at the shop for me


So what are you going to set it up for? 

Are you going to use you're VE+ for spots and make the Alpha Elite your 3D rig?


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## N7709K

Isaac,

What spec were your arrows?

Reason I ask, is i got a new bow at the shop and i need some huntign arrows.. i was gonna run acc's but if i don't have to drop that much change for a midweight easton i would be happy


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## isaacdahl

I had 400's cut at 26.75" (carbon-to-carbon) standard H nocks and inserts, with 100gr. tips. They weighed roughly 380gr. finished. I happen to have some ACC-49 inserts that fit perfect in epic 400's and only weigh 8.6gr. (if ya cared to know,lol). I personally like the standard inserts just because the weigh a little more.

They are great arrows and even if I had the choice, I'd take those over the axis (which for some reason everybody thinks they're so great). 

How many pound limbs did you get? Reason I ask is because the 400's seem to fly really well with my 101st at about 60#. Possibly the AE would like a 125gr. tip up front instead (if you happen to be shooting it at 60#) because my 101st likes stiff arrows.


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## N7709K

isaacdahl said:


> I had 400's cut at 26.75" (carbon-to-carbon) standard H nocks and inserts, with 100gr. tips. They weighed roughly 380gr. finished. I happen to have some ACC-49 inserts that fit perfect in epic 400's and only weigh 8.6gr. (if ya cared to know,lol). I personally like the standard inserts just because the weigh a little more.
> 
> They are great arrows and even if I had the choice, I'd take those over the axis (which for some reason everybody thinks they're so great).
> 
> How many pound limbs did you get? Reason I ask is because the 400's seem to fly really well with my 101st at about 60#. Possibly the AE would like a 125gr. tip up front instead (if you happen to be shooting it at 60#) because my 101st likes stiff arrows.


a 400 spine cut that short acts like a 340 spine, so they are on the stiffer side. i'm guessin it has 60lb limbs and #3 cams, but im not sure until tomorrow. I'm not sure if the fuels and teh ae like stiffer or weaker arrows, i can find out... but i dont want to have to play with it that much.

380grs? finished weight, fletched?


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## isaacdahl

380gr. (roughly, I don't remember the exact weight, but I know it was somewhere around there) fletched and ready to shoot.


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## N7709K

did they spin true? 

I got a little time to decide, but i want to have arrows for it before i head up north


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## isaacdahl

I honestly didn't every spin them other than with broadheads. I did get some wobble from a couple of them, but I couldn't tell you if that was from the broadhead or the shaft.

Sorry


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## N7709K

i don't even do that, i just shoot em.. i'm kinda lazy

There's nothing to be sorry for, everyone does their equip diff. I've been spoiled with the hit inserts for a while and haven't had to play with spinnin em


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## isaacdahl

I'm gonna change the subject here quick...

The other day when I went to paper tune my new Lightspeeds I constantly got tail left tares. I'm not the best at paper tuning or reading tares, but doesn't that mean that I have a weak spine? I sprayed one with talk powder and couldn't seem to detect any contact on my rest or cables, so I'm pretty sure it's not that. The part that gets me is there is NO WAY I have a weak spine. I ended up ordering 340's cut at 26.5 carbon-to-carbon with 110gr. up front. If anything I was worried about the arrow being to stiff.

I moved the rest to the left until I got a perfect tare, but then the arrow was WAY past center shot and I couldn't even move my sight far enough to compensate for it.

Any ideas?


----------



## N7709K

not a problem.

if you have a left tare, you want to move the rest right. 

here is what i would do:

set centershot and nock height. Sight it in out to 40-80yds. The farther the better, if you are getting left of center groups "/"(this is what the pattern will look like as you move out) move teh rest right a tiny tiny bit until they go away, opposite or a pattern like this"\"

you shouldn't have cam lean, but that can also cause left tears


----------



## isaacdahl

Ohhh...I figured I was doing something wrong. I couldn't remember what direction I had to move the rest:embara:.

Yeah, I'll give your idea a try. To me paper tuning is a pain in the butt. lol

I do have a little bit of cam lean in my top cam but not really enough to see without putting an arrow our something long against the cam.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## N7709K

IF you can fix the cam lean, that will have an impact on the tear. 

Don't feel bad about paper tuning, i never papertuned my ve+ at the setup and when i did shoot it through paper it had a 2" right tear, but it shot one hole groups at 20yds, so i left it


----------



## isaacdahl

Once I get a press made, I plan on switching the top limb for the bottom and see if that helps any. I'd switch them around now, but it's kind of a hassle when you don't have your own press.

Thanks for the tips.


----------



## N7709K

I would add a couple twists first, much easier


----------



## isaacdahl

What would I need to twist to get the cam lean out? I was under the impression that with binary cams you can't really do much about cam lean because you don't have a yolk to twist/compensate for the lean.


----------



## N7709K

you can't with the yokes, but you can play a little depending on which way they lean.... have you walk back tuned?


----------



## isaacdahl

Not yet. I plan to do that tonight.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I got to get a bow press built soon. Just found out that the local shop I usually go to went out of business...crap.

After looking at the cams, it looks like if I'd twist the up cable a bit it might pull the top cam the correct way.


----------



## N7709K

Presses aren't hard to build if you study up on one first and can weld good.

Well went and got the new bow today. 60lber gloss black with silver pockets and cams. At 61lbs 29" number 3 fuels with factory strings and untimed cams I hit 295fps with peep and loop shooting a 340gr arrow


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> Presses aren't hard to build if you study up on one first and can weld good.
> 
> Well went and got the new bow today. 60lber gloss black with silver pockets and cams. At 61lbs 29" number 3 fuels with factory strings and untimed cams I hit 295fps with peep and loop shooting a 340gr arrow


Is this going to be a hunting bow, target bow, or 3-d bow?


----------



## N7709K

outdoorkid1 said:


> Is this going to be a hunting bow, target bow, or 3-d bow?


havin silver pockets and cams, i'm not gonna hunt with it unfortunately. I'll shoot everything else with it though


----------



## arhoythunter

I'm think target since it is an alphaelite


----------



## arhoythunter

Woooooowwwwww that's prutty


----------



## need-a-bow

Shiny and pretty:drool:


----------



## outdoorkid1

arhoythunter said:


> I'm think target since it is an alphaelite


I was just wondering what he was gonna do with it since he already has a hunting bow and a target bow and another target bow.


----------



## muzzyman1212

Jacob how do you get so many bows?


----------



## N7709K

Muzzy, 

This one was not planned.. i ordered it back on dec 1 as my shooter bow, after talking to griv while i was down there in GA i changed up my order to the VE+. Didn't think anything of it until i got a call sayin that i have a bow in up in the shop.

the other ones i have worked to pay for

As far as what I am going to use the AE for, i ordered it origionally as a hunting bow but changed it to a target color.. then it got changed up... I'm gonna do a bit of everything with it though


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Muzzy,
> 
> This one was not planned.. i ordered it back on dec 1 as my shooter bow, after talking to griv while i was down there in GA i changed up my order to the VE+. Didn't think anything of it until i got a call sayin that i have a bow in up in the shop.
> 
> the other ones i have worked to pay for
> 
> As far as what I am going to use the AE for, i ordered it origionally as a hunting bow but changed it to a target color.. then it got changed up... I'm gonna do a bit of everything with it though


So your AE and VE+ are both shooter bows?


----------



## N7709K

yes and no.. the ve+ is my shooter bow, but i ended up getting the ae at shooter price cause it was marked adn shipped as a shooter bow


----------



## muzzyman1212

Oh I see.


----------



## N7709K

i really wasn't too worried about what it was gonna cost, cause i was gonna get one anyway.. but i'm sure glad to get them at shooter price


----------



## isaacdahl

How are the the Fuse strings? Do you usually replace them right away or shoot them for a while?


----------



## N7709K

Isaac, out of all the hoyts I have shot.. i have had one good set of factory strings. The one on the AE are ok for now, but the first thing that goes on it after i got the money is a set of vt's.


----------



## N7709K

been hunting a bit this weekend.. birds have been really quiet and not moving much..

headed up to the shop tomorrow to get new limbs ordered for the burner.. splinter on bottom right limb


----------



## need-a-bow

About how much money do you have in bows right now with all the accesories?


----------



## N7709K

with everything i have:
3200$ in bows
$600 in sights with another $600 to come
$400 in scopes with another $400 coming this summer
$300 in rests with $300 more coming this summer
bout $500 in strings, peeps, little stuff
$700 ish into stabilizers with $400 more to come in a little bit
$700 ish into arrows
$750 or there about into releases

think thats about it, I didn't pay for all of my stuff.. some has come from the shop, and some has come from my mom.. but most of it i pay for


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> with everything i have:
> 3200$ in bows
> $600 in sights with another $600 to come
> $400 in scopes with another $400 coming this summer
> $300 in rests with $300 more coming this summer
> bout $500 in strings, peeps, little stuff
> $700 ish into stabilizers with $400 more to come in a little bit
> $700 ish into arrows
> $750 or there about into releases
> 
> think thats about it, I didn't pay for all of my stuff.. some has come from the shop, and some has come from my mom.. but most of it i pay for


:mg::mg::mg::mg::mg:
:mg::mg::mg::mg::mg:


----------



## need-a-bow

so by the end of this summer you will havespent almost almost $9000!!! Ill be lucky if I can get $500 into a a bow(hopefully a target bow) by the end of this year.


----------



## N7709K

It seems like a lot, but it has been spaced out over a while. Little here and there

It gets really spendy when you are running multiple setups


----------



## need-a-bow

I wish I could buy a good target bow but I dont even know which are good. Could someone help me out as oi what are some good affordable bows for shooting spots and foam(for now)?


----------



## N7709K

Pro/ultra elites should be in that price range.. vantage pro, x7/x8's, 38 pro, c4's, apex 7, apex, some pse's

the problem with target setups is not the bow itself, they all will shoot good and clean games, its the sight/scope stabilizers rest and arrows that make the difference


----------



## bow hunter11

N7709K said:


> with everything i have:
> 3200$ in bows
> $600 in sights with another $600 to come
> $400 in scopes with another $400 coming this summer
> $300 in rests with $300 more coming this summer
> bout $500 in strings, peeps, little stuff
> $700 ish into stabilizers with $400 more to come in a little bit
> $700 ish into arrows
> $750 or there about into releases
> 
> think thats about it, I didn't pay for all of my stuff.. some has come from the shop, and some has come from my mom.. but most of it i pay for


man that is alot of money


----------



## N7709K

It seems like it, but its really not that much.... if I break it down to each setup indivually its a lot better


----------



## bishjr

N7709K said:


> It seems like it, but its really not that much.... if I break it down to each setup indivually its a lot better


Thats the only way to look at it. My setups are not as much as yours, but still have a bit of money invested in them. If you could recommend a Axcel sight, which one would you recommend? Considering getting one this year, but have no experience with them. Going to be using it for spot/3D.


----------



## need-a-bow

Any for under $500? And Im having trouble finding prices on the hoyts


----------



## N7709K

need-a-bow said:


> Any for under $500? And Im having trouble finding prices on the hoyts


pro and ultra elites will be really close to $500, the x7/x8 will be around $350. you can find c4's a7's for $400-$500 pretty easily



bishjr said:


> Thats the only way to look at it. My setups are not as much as yours, but still have a bit of money invested in them. If you could recommend a Axcel sight, which one would you recommend? Considering getting one this year, but have no experience with them. Going to be using it for spot/3D.


open class or hunter class? for open class ax3000 with 9" bar, for hunter class armortech pro with either 5 .010 pins or stack them down .029 .019 .010


----------



## need-a-bow

Do you know wher I can find them new? My dad wont let me buy a used bow and since hes probably putting up most of the cash I have to listen


----------



## need-a-bow

I take that back. I just saw the price on a vantage pro is $1099 and I guess some of the other bows are around the same price new and others discontinued. I guess Ill look for some at the nearest pro shops once I move. Or is ther somewhere else I should look? Id rather not buy a used bow online


----------



## N7709K

the only new bow that you can get that will be good at target for around that price is either gonna be a hold over or a bmxl


----------



## need-a-bow

Yeah thats what ive been thinking from what I see on eBay. I wonder if I could get good target scores with a PSE stinger(which is what I thought about buying before I started looking for a target bow). I know Ill need some good stabs and a good sight, but is it plausible?


----------



## N7709K

need-a-bow said:


> Yeah thats what ive been thinking from what I see on eBay. I wonder if I could get good target scores with a PSE stinger(which is what I thought about buying before I started looking for a target bow). I know Ill need some good stabs and a good sight, but is it plausible?



this is a tough question, but i'm gonna say no... now that doesn't mean that you wont shoot some good scores with the bow, but averaging high scores takes a good solid bow


----------



## need-a-bow

I was afraid of that. But too bad, I doubt I could actually shoot a 300 with a good target bow anyways, but still, every little thing helps. Do you know what I should look for when buying a used bow? and whats the difference between the cams on the bows you stated earlier? I know hoyts have a lot of different cams but dont have a clue whats the difference, besides the name


----------



## N7709K

i wouldnt' be too worried with a used bow. I've had them, shot them, and loved them. 

as much as i hate them if you go hoyt more than likely you will want to get cam and a half plus.

if you go mathews, i'm not sure, i haven't played with them too much


----------



## need-a-bow

Have you shot the turbohawk? Ive been told its similar to an Alphamax35 and their only $400 at most places online that still have them


----------



## isaacdahl

Need-a bow

Whoops, when I PMed you I meant to say that the TH is similar to the Alphamax32. Although I mentioned the AM35 because it would fit a little bit better for you since you're looking for a target bow (a little bit longer ATA). Not saying the TH wouldn't work because it is still a very nice bow none-the-less.


----------



## arhoythunter

Any of y'all shoot traditional?


----------



## need-a-bow

I shoot a little fibirglass recurve and have shot a few wooden bows. Plan on making my own soon


----------



## muzzyman1212

arhoythunter said:


> Any of y'all shoot traditional?


I have a martin mamba.


----------



## outdoorkid1

arhoythunter said:


> Any of y'all shoot traditional?


I have a PSE buckeye thats set at 38lbs at 28". I like it for hunting small game and such.


----------



## arhoythunter

*Typo*

Ive been shooting a couple and haven't figured which 1 I like best


----------



## N7709K

the turbohawk is a really nice bow, but it is kinda short for target. now it will shoot 60x games in the right hands, but it is very capable of shooting 300's all the time


----------



## need-a-bow

Ill see if I can try a few out and see if I notice a difference between a turbohawk and a longer ATA.BTW I dont think Ill be shooting 300 scores anytime soon, but I havent shot more than a couple of arrows at a time. Maybe Im actually good.


----------



## str8tshooter15

anyone here from oregon and shoot the triple crown or shoot any comps around orgon. PM me if you wana talk.:wink:


----------



## muzzyman1212

Look at this, I wish I could buy this as a back up bow right now instead I have to buy a motor. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1492834 This is awesome!


----------



## N7709K

safari is a sweet color ain't it? pse has a color really similar that you can get through their custom shop


----------



## N7709K

got the ae setup today.. got it set for hunter class, we'll see how it does

the ve+ hasn't changed much.. still punches x's

then there is the burner....


----------



## outdoorkid1

Is that a crack in the limb? That doesn't look very good.


----------



## N7709K

outdoorkid1 said:


> Is that a crack in the limb? That doesn't look very good.


limb splinters.. at that stage you can clip them and keep shooting, i've done it before. didn't change a thing, but i ordered new limbs and had a shoot between when i ordered them and when they came in. I got new limbs coming for this one

shot my first game of anything in like a month today, man i gotta shoot more.. 30 arrows with a 8.5lb bow got to me, lol


----------



## need-a-bow

Fancy. Im bidding on a pro elite right now on ebay but I havnt been able to find any good bow under $300 thats black(Im bidding on a bunch but Im not going over $250 or else my dad will kill me). If I win my problem would be explaining to my dad why I need 2 bows(im already buying bow hunter11s new powerhak)


----------



## outdoorkid1

need-a-bow said:


> Fancy. Im bidding on a pro elite right now on ebay but I havnt been able to find any good bow under $300 thats black(Im bidding on a bunch but Im not going over $250 or else my dad will kill me). If I win my problem would be explaining to my dad why I need 2 bows(im already buying bow hunter11s new powerhak)


:mg: I Thought your dad wouldn't let you go over $400. He's ganna be POed


----------



## need-a-bow

I know. But Ive saved about $200 this past week(busting my butt helping a neighbor) and should have about $150 in the bank from school(i got something like a scholarship). That would be about half of everything so maybe he'll let it slide. But now that I think of it what would I use 2 bows for? I doubt he'll et me go hunting this year unless I can tag along with my uncle(hes a rifle hunter).


----------



## outdoorkid1

What are you going to be using your bow for than? Just 3-d shoots and target shoots? If your going to be only doing target and 3-d I would just get one bow and use the rest of the money for great accessories for it. Then, if you do a little hunting every once in a while you could just take your target bow out.


----------



## N7709K

all be it nice to have two bows, its not needed. 

if you are only going to get one bow, i would get a one in the middle of the ata range.. if you could get one, a drenalin ld is perfect


----------



## bow hunter11

i use my diamond edge for 3-d, taget, and hunting. What is the point in two bows.


----------



## N7709K

bow hunter11 said:


> i use my diamond edge for 3-d, taget, and hunting. What is the point in two bows.


short answer for two bows is so you have one hunting bow and one target rig. Target rig is going to be lighter poundage, longer ata, and lower letoff, usually a brighter color with reflective accents. 

I have more than one bow, 4 actually, one for indoor/3d... one for hunting... one for backup hunting.. and one for hunter class


----------



## outdoorkid1

I use my diamond iceman for hunting targetand 3-d also, but just cuz I don't have enough money to get a target bow. There is a purpose for having two bows. for hunting you would want a heavier draw weight and lots of speed but you still want accuracy, but when the draw weights to heavy you get wore out fast so you can't hold it as still. With a target bow, you can use a lower poundage so you can shoot all day and lighter arrows so it will go faster making judging distances a lot easier. you can also have a single pin slider sight which you most likly wouldn't use for hunting but works well for target shooting because you can put a lense on it so you can see the target better at farther distances.


----------



## bow hunter11

oo, i see


----------



## outdoorkid1

yup.


----------



## bow hunter11

If you could get a target bow what would you get?


----------



## outdoorkid1

Elite pure. Smooth as butter. long axle to axle. forgiving brace hieght. I can see it now. black riser, snow camo limbs. set up with a 5 pin axcell amortech pro sight and a limbdriver rest with a doinker or b- stinger stabilizer.


----------



## bow hunter11

You like elites? I thought you like hoyt's


----------



## outdoorkid1

There all good. You can't go wrong with any these days. Try them out and you find one that fits you best. There isn't a one bow that fits every one. Theres nothing wrong with hoyts there top quality, but I don't think i'll be spending $1299 on the element any time soon.


----------



## bow hunter11

well im going to scheels tuesday and im gonna find out which bow fits me the best


----------



## N7709K

if its an all out target bow, hoyt vantage elite plus with spirals or contender elite with spirals.. very tough combo to beat

more or less every brand puts out a good target bow, mathews has the apex line, hoyt has the contender's and vantage, pse has teh supra, dominator and moneymaker, martin has the shadowcat, athens has the excell and exceed, ... the list goes on. it all comes down to personal preference and what you want in a bow


----------



## outdoorkid1

bow hunter11 said:


> well im going to scheels tuesday and im gonna find out which bow fits me the best


take a lot of money, lol. go to the one in omaha because they have a great archery department.


----------



## bow hunter11

i know that is the one that i am going to. They dont have mathews there though do they?


----------



## outdoorkid1

Idk, I think its bowtech and hoyt, but you can also go to cabelas. When you shoot a hoyt you will not be dissapointed though.


----------



## bow hunter11

i might be dissapointed with hoyt you never know.


----------



## N7709K

they won't have many hoyts or really any bows in low poundage.. few 60's mostly 70's... bettin no target rigs either.. 


you have any certain bows your looking for?


----------



## outdoorkid1

I highly doubt you will be dissapointed with a hoyt. It is a much better bow than the one you have now, but thats just my opinion.


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> they won't have many hoyts or really any bows in low poundage.. few 60's mostly 70's... bettin no target rigs either..
> 
> 
> you have any certain bows your looking for?


they have hoyts, just not target hoyts. bows like the crx, rampage and the carbon element. And ya you better bring your muscles when you go because most of the test models will probably be 60-70lbs.


----------



## N7709K

sheels round where i am has some alphaburner, maxxis, crx 32/35, rampage/xt, elements... vixcen.. and maybe the trykon jr... not too many, but enough to get a feel for what they got


----------



## bow hunter11

outdoorkid1 said:


> I highly doubt you will be dissapointed with a hoyt. It is a much better bow than the one you have now, but thats just my opinion.


i know hat pretty much every bow is better than my bow now because it is a good starting bow.


----------



## outdoorkid1

bow hunter11 said:


> i know hat pretty much every bow is better than my bow now because it is a good starting bow.


Ya, I shoot my bow that I have now compared to my old razor edge and it is night and day differance.


----------



## N7709K

i started with a diamond too... loved that thing, it was a shooter for sure.. ended up selling it to a friend and he loves it

i think you will find you like a different bow better because it will fit you better


----------



## bow hunter11

ya i know. Ive been thinking about getting a z7 or z7 extreme


----------



## outdoorkid1

Just saying if you get a good bow you probably won't even want your diamond any more. or thats how it is for me any way.


----------



## outdoorkid1

bow hunter11 said:


> ya i know. Ive been thinking about getting a z7 or z7 extreme


shoot them against other bows and find out for your self which bow is better for you.


----------



## bow hunter11

ik when i get anew bow im gonna sell mine i think


----------



## outdoorkid1

Are you gonna set you new one up for hunting, 3-d and target than also?


----------



## N7709K

shoot all the bows you can, several times.. different days then decide what you want


----------



## bow hunter11

outdoorkid1 said:


> Are you gonna set you new one up for hunting, 3-d and target than also?


all of em just like yours


----------



## outdoorkid1

Id get a axcell 5 pin sight. b-stinger stabilizer and a qad ultra rest. that way it will work well for all 3hunting, 3-d, and spots.


----------



## bow hunter11

whats an axcell 5 pin sight


----------



## outdoorkid1

look it up


----------



## outdoorkid1

http://www.axcelsights.com/armortechHD.html


----------



## bow hunter11

i like it


----------



## N7709K

Id second the armortech... if your gonna use it for target, I would do a custom order and get a 5 pin with a .019 pin followed by 4 .010 pins. Id get a 12" pro hunter, same bstinger I shoot for hunting and its just a black or camo version of what I shot for target. Depending what bow you go with, the weight will be 8oz or less needed... more than likely. 

Qads are nice, but it might get annoying haveing to cock the rest before every shot in a 5spot game( I know you don't have to cock them first, but that is what qad reccomends)


----------



## outdoorkid1

it doesn't get anoying to me. its just another proccess, just like nocking the arrow. I would get it because it will work better for hunting since its full capture.


----------



## bow hunter11

N7709K said:


> Id second the armortech... if your gonna use it for target, I would do a custom order and get a 5 pin with a .019 pin followed by 4 .010 pins. Id get a 12" pro hunter, same bstinger I shoot for hunting and its just a black or camo version of what I shot for target. Depending what bow you go with, the weight will be 8oz or less needed... more than likely.
> 
> Qads are nice, but it might get annoying haveing to cock the rest before every shot in a 5spot game( I know you don't have to cock them first, but that is what qad reccomends)


ya it doesnt bother me either when i cock it back


----------



## N7709K

They are really nice for hunting... I'm partial to ld's really easy setup and I don't need a press to set it up, the full capture blade helps a bit


----------



## isaacdahl

Wow, this really stinks... 

A good friend of our families is getting some crop damage permits and asked if my dad and I wanted any. We said sure... I've been pumped ever since I heard about this, but now I realized I only have one bow which is currently set up for 3D

Now what the heck do I do? I don't have a rifle and a can't hit a thing with or shotgun, and I'm sure Dad won't let me get another bow (and I can't really afford one for that matter).

Any ideas?


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> Wow, this really stinks...
> 
> A good friend of our families is getting some crop damage permits and asked if my dad and I wanted any. We said sure... I've been pumped ever since I heard about this, but now I realized I only have one bow which is currently set up for 3D
> 
> Now what the heck do I do? I don't have a rifle and a can't hit a thing with or shotgun, and I'm sure Dad won't let me get another bow (and I can't really afford one for that matter).
> 
> Any ideas?


Just use your 3-d bow. Theres nothing wrong with using it. I use my bow for spots 3-d and hunting. If you have a long stabilizer just take it off. Just screw in some broadheads onto the end of your arrow and your ready to go.


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks for the idea, but I have my 3D bow set up with Lightspeeds (350gr. total) and would rather not use them for hunting (to light). I also have long a stab and sidebar on it which isn't to much of a problem.

Basically, I have my bow set up for 3D and would rather not change it in the middle of 3D season, especially because I just got it set up to my liking.


----------



## outdoorkid1

You think 350 grains is too light. Why? Your shooting them at 295 fps which is way fast enough to kill deer. I use a 380gr arrow shooting at about 240 fps and get passthroughs every time. Don't change any thing on your bow. Just buy your self a pack of magnus or slick trick broadheads, make sure they fly on and hunt with them. If they don't fly straight than to bad, no hunting for you. You don't have to move your sight or your rest or nothing. Just screw in some broadheads and start hunting. I really don't see a problem at all. You have your bow set up for 3-d, right? So just screw in some broadheads Make sure they fly right and your off hunting. Its just that simple.


----------



## outdoorsman3

outdoorkid1 said:


> If they don't fly straight than to bad, no hunting for you.


I dont understand this line.


----------



## N7709K

outdoorkid1 said:


> You think 350 grains is too light. Why? Your shooting them at 295 fps which is way fast enough to kill deer. I use a 380gr arrow shooting at about 240 fps and get passthroughs every time. Don't change any thing on your bow. Just buy your self a pack of magnus or slick trick broadheads, make sure they fly on and hunt with them. If they don't fly straight than to bad, no hunting for you. You don't have to move your sight or your rest or nothing. Just screw in some broadheads and start hunting. I really don't see a problem at all. You have your bow set up for 3-d, right? So just screw in some broadheads Make sure they fly right and your off hunting. Its just that simple.


Its not that simple.. a 350gr arrows will kill a deer no problem.. but with lightspeeds i'm guessing he has shorter lp fletch and glue in tips.. can't take broad heads

you also need to tune broadheads and make sure they fly good out to 50yds or farther.. might have to tweak cables, rest, timing, nockpoint, etc to get them to fly good


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Thanks for the idea, but I have my 3D bow set up with Lightspeeds (350gr. total) and would rather not use them for hunting (to light). I also have long a stab and sidebar on it which isn't to much of a problem.
> 
> Basically, I have my bow set up for 3D and would rather not change it in the middle of 3D season, especially because I just got it set up to my liking.


Do you have glue in points? I just realized we have about the same specs too. haha


----------



## isaacdahl

muzzyman1212 said:


> Do you have glue in points? I just realized we have about the same specs too. haha


Nope, I decided to go with inserts just in case I need to mess around with FOC, etc.



N7709K said:


> Its not that simple.. a 350gr arrows will kill a deer no problem.. but with lightspeeds i'm guessing he has shorter lp fletch and glue in tips.. can't take broad heads
> 
> you also need to tune broadheads and make sure they fly good out to 50yds or farther.. might have to tweak cables, rest, timing, nockpoint, etc to get them to fly good


My point exactly...


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Nope, I decided to go with inserts just in case I need to mess around with FOC, etc.
> 
> 
> My point exactly...


Why cant you just put a shorter stabilizer on there and put some broadheads that fly good without having to tweak anything 350grains should be fine.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I know 350gr. should be fine, but I feel a lot more comfortable with an arrow that's heavier than that (390+grains). I also bought the Lightspeeds as dedicated 3D arrows.

Sorry, I'm just kind of stubborn


----------



## isaacdahl

I'm actually really stubborn, now that I think about it. lol 

Them arrows are just to purty and nice shootin' to think of busting one on a deer, especially on a crop damage deer. lol


----------



## N7709K

its not as much the weight, people shoot lighter arrows and kill deer just fine, its tuning the arrows with broad heads. 

more than likely, if he were to try fixed blades they would not hit with his field points do to spine, rest adjustment, tune, etc since a field tip does not steer the arrow. he would have to tune his arrows to broad heads and sight in again, this can be good tho since the arrows after broadhead tunign are flyin perfectly. since the arrows are dedicated for 3d, he might have low profile vanes on them, not the best for steering broadheads. changing his stabilizers can also change his poi, not a big deal since he more than likely would have to sight in again, but still a hassle to go though

in other news, i punched out a 299 26x vegas roudn with the hunter setup.. might have to start shooting that division


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks for helping me explain my position Jacob!

On a side note,

Do wanna lend me a bow:tongue: lol jk


----------



## N7709K

all i got that would fit you is the am35.. but i dont' got hunting arrows that tune to it.. or even have it setup anymore


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> all i got that would fit you is the am35.. but i dont' got hunting arrows that tune to it.. or even have it setup anymore


I was just kidding, but I appreciate the offer.

I'd really like to get another bow, but the parents don't seem to get the hint (even though I'd be paying for everything). They just say "well buy some hunting arrows and be done with it" I REALLY don't want to do that.


----------



## N7709K

the biggest thing that i have found with having multiple bows, is that a spare bow is a must. because stuff does break, and when it does it sucks to be without bows


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

N7709K said:


> the biggest thing that i have found with having multiple bows, is that a spare bow is a must. because stuff does break, and when it does it sucks to be without bows


true that, thank god for a back up bow... i needed mine!


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> I was just kidding, but I appreciate the offer.
> 
> I'd really like to get another bow, but the parents don't seem to get the hint (even though I'd be paying for everything). They just say "well buy some hunting arrows and be done with it" I REALLY don't want to do that.


Get a traditional bow? I am running out of ideas! haha


----------



## N7709K

Isaac, depending on what sight you have it could be pretty easy to run one bow for everything. 

Just as an example, if you ran an ax3000 for comp and an armortech pro for hunting, they take the same dove tail so you can have the bow setup and sighted in with two diff sets of arrows and not have to change much at all other than the stabs... and maybe not even change them


----------



## isaacdahl

Does the ax3000 come with a scope? And what's the difference between the ax2000, 3000, and 4500?

That's something I've been thinking about but after I buy two sights, I'll be upwards of $500, so technically I could buy a used bow of the classifieds that much or less.

I've also been looking at Sword sights. I've been planning on getting a Trident Hunter for a while now and I could possibly swap it out with the Titan for comp.

And my last question for now... have you ever been able to get two different models of arrows (that are the same spine and brand) to tune relatively close to each other?

Thanks

P.S. to muzzyman,
Yeah, I have a recurve, maybe if I mess around with it for a while I can get the hang of it. lol


----------



## outdoorkid1

Well its weird that you can't use broadheads because I have my rest and nocking point tuned for 3-D and spots and My broadheads fly straight on any way with them. And I doubt you'll be taking any shots at deer past 50 yards. I would just buy a pack of 3 broadheads and screw them on and shoot into a foam target and see if there flying were you aim. Its worth a try. I think it is weird that a bowhunter is actually trying to *AVOID* bowhunting. It seems to me that you are just complaining that you can't hunt because you need another bow to do it.


----------



## isaacdahl

You don't get the point, do you?

Although 350gr. arrow may work fine for you, I've shot a few deer with an arrow under 380gr. and the results were less than I expected. Both times I hit either the shoulder or a rib and didn't get hardly any penetration. YOU MAY BE COMFORTABLE SHOOTING A LIGHT ARROW, BUT I'M NOT! Plus, I have x2s on the Lightspeeds with hardly any offset at all. Maybe they could guide a broadhead, maybe they couldn't...and to be honest, I don't really care. 

By the way, I'm pretty serious when it comes to 3D and it's just as important to me as hunting is. It's the middle of the 3D season right now and I have my bow set up the way I want it.

If you would have read the post before you, I'm planning on getting a couple sights that will let me change between hunting arrows and 3D without to much of a problem. That's the best advice I've heard thus far.

Maybe I did sound like I was complaining, but I've been freaking out the last few days trying to figure this out because the farmer wants us out there as soon as possible.

Sorry for being so rude.


----------



## outdoorkid1

hold on, I want to get this straight. You were shooting a arrow less than 380gr going 295 fps and you hit the ribs and got hardly any penitration. I find that vary hard to believe unless your shooting like a 3" cut broadhead. And if you hit the shoulder it should stop the arrow so there shouldn't be much penitration there anyway. I don't have any helical on my fletchings, They are all straight. I have my arrows, my rest, my sight, my nocking point all tuned for spots and 3-d. But, with my magnus stingers which are $24.99 a pack, I just screw them on the end of my arrow and shoot to make sure they fly were I aim and they do! Here is my suggestion to you so You do not have to blow $500 on a sight and so you don't have to move your rest or anything. Buy a $24.99 pack of magnus stinger 2 blade broadheads since your so worried about penitration. If they don't fly with your field points than I guess you'll have to spend $1000 on a new bow so you can set it up to hunt.


----------



## outdoorkid1

Ohh, and my friend shooting a 24" draw length and 38Lbs with a 340gr arrow for a total of about 25 ft lbs of K/E shooting a 3 blade fixed blade broadhead with a total of 1 1/4 cut has gotten passtroughs on fully mature deer. So thats why I find it very hard to believe you got very little penitration with an arrow that is getting 68 ft lbs of K/E going 295fps. I just don't get it :dontknow:


----------



## isaacdahl

I was shooting an arrow of a little less than 380gr. at about 283fps. I shot a big doe at about 3 yards and for some reason got hardly any penetration. The arrow went about half way though than fell right out and left hardly any blood trail. The other time, I shot a button buck using a 350gr. arrow (this was with a different bow and I don't remember how fast I was shooting) and the same thing happened: the arrow went about half way through popped out; again there was hardly a blood trail. Both times the broadheads were sharp and everything was in tune. I now a lot of people have success with light arrows BUT SO FAR I'VE NOT HAD GOOD LUCK WITH THEM. 

There is way more to penetration than just kinetic energy! For one, there is momentum which gives you a lot better understanding of an arrows penetration ability. Basically (I'm sure you heard this before) "Would you rather get hit in head by a golf ball or a ping pong ball" the golf ball moves a lot slower, but is also a lot heavier.

I'm not buying a new bow as I can not afford another one right now and I'm not going to spend $500 for sights. N7709K was just giving me an idea and I appreciate that very much. I'm looking at Sword sights (which are a good solid sight but for a lot less $$) and if I look around on the classifieds and ebay I should have no problem getting them even cheaper.

Thanks for the simple idea N7709K.


----------



## isaacdahl

outdoorkid1 said:


> Ohh, and my friend shooting a 24" draw length and 38Lbs with a 340gr arrow for a total of about 25 ft lbs of K/E shooting a 3 blade fixed blade broadhead with a total of 1 1/4 cut has gotten passtroughs on fully mature deer. So thats why I find it very hard to believe you got very little penitration with an arrow that is getting 68 ft lbs of K/E going 295fps. I just don't get it :dontknow:


I understand where you're coming from and I know that it's possible but I like the added momentum of a heavy arrow along with a quieter bow.


----------



## outdoorkid1

So your going to get another sight so you can sight it in for broadheads and just switch sights for hunting and 3-d. And you will also have to get some heavy arrows


----------



## isaacdahl

outdoorkid1 said:


> So your going to get another sight so you can sight it in for broadheads and just switch sights for hunting and 3-d. And you will also have to get some heavy arrows


Yeah, that's what I plan on doing for now.

Hopefully I'll beable to get each arrows to tune relatively close. Worth a try I guess.


----------



## isaacdahl

Hey Jacob,

This is kind of a wild idea, but is it possible to just change between two scopes with relative ease? If so, can I purchase a multipin scope? I've never been able to find them anywhere but as long as scopes are easily swapped I don't see why you couldn't (other than the fact that it could be a hassle). I now that some people use the same sight for 3D and spots but the just swap out the scope.

Just a crazy idea I had...lol


----------



## N7709K

isaacdahl said:


> You don't get the point, do you?
> 
> Although 350gr. arrow may work fine for you, I've shot a few deer with an arrow under 380gr. and the results were less than I expected. Both times I hit either the shoulder or a rib and didn't get hardly any penetration. YOU MAY BE COMFORTABLE SHOOTING A LIGHT ARROW, BUT I'M NOT! Plus, I have x2s on the Lightspeeds with hardly any offset at all. Maybe they could guide a broadhead, maybe they couldn't...and to be honest, I don't really care.


 unless you want to shoot espandables, x2's won't be that great for broadheads.. offset don't matter too much, since they are such a small control surface



outdoorkid1 said:


> Well its weird that you can't use broadheads because I have my rest and nocking point tuned for 3-D and spots and My broadheads fly straight on any way with them. And I doubt you'll be taking any shots at deer past 50 yards. I would just buy a pack of 3 broadheads and screw them on and shoot into a foam target and see if there flying were you aim. Its worth a try. I think it is weird that a bowhunter is actually trying to *AVOID* bowhunting. It seems to me that you are just complaining that you can't hunt because you need another bow to do it.


you have your setup tuned, as does isaac, as do i... you happen to have it tuned with broadheads so that they shoot just fine. I can't speak for isaac, but out of my 4 setups, 2 print bh's with the same poi and two that won't. one of this is my target rig that will shoot 5" groups at 80yds all day, or better. Just the way it is set and the arrows that it tunes with.

50yds is a stretch for most hunters, but the farther you shoot, the more you see if things need to be changed and adjusted. i have my ve+ shooting one hole groups at 20yds, moved back to 80yds and the groups would shift to the left... moved the rest 1 click and they came back to center and tightened way up.



outdoorkid1 said:


> Ohh, and my friend shooting a 24" draw length and 38Lbs with a 340gr arrow for a total of about 25 ft lbs of K/E shooting a 3 blade fixed blade broadhead with a total of 1 1/4 cut has gotten passtroughs on fully mature deer. So thats why I find it very hard to believe you got very little penitration with an arrow that is getting 68 ft lbs of K/E going 295fps. I just don't get it :dontknow:


Its about ke, momentum, and shot placement. if you don't have a good foc and don't carry good momentum you will have less penetration on a marginal shot. I've seen a .308 not penetrate fully at under 50yds...


[/QUOTE]



isaacdahl said:


> Hey Jacob,
> 
> This is kind of a wild idea, but is it possible to just change between two scopes with relative ease? If so, can I purchase a multipin scope? I've never been able to find them anywhere but as long as scopes are easily swapped I don't see why you couldn't (other than the fact that it could be a hassle). I now that some people use the same sight for 3D and spots but the just swap out the scope.
> 
> Just a crazy idea I had...lol


yep you can do that.. cbe makes a multi pin scope, axcel doesn't make one yet, but i have heard one may be in the works.

the ax2000, 3000, 4500 are more or less the same sight, but one has 2"(2000) of vertical adjustment, one has 3"(3000) and one has 4.5" of adjustment(4500)


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks for answering my questions.

Most scopes have the same thread size, correct? If so, would it work if I decide to get a Sword Titan and switch to the CBE multipin scope for hunting?


----------



## N7709K

yep, they usually have the same size thread. 

if you go the route of the sword, i would have two sets of sight marks... one with the glass in and one with it out, just hunt with the glass out and use it as a single pin slider.

as for getting two diff arrows to tune, yep as long as spine is the same on both they will tune.


----------



## isaacdahl

So the sights marks would be different with the lens vs. without the lens?


----------



## N7709K

maybe, i'm guessing yes.. but i can't say for sure. I got my ve+ to hit dead on with the truespot and with a pin, but that was two diff scopes


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> So the sights marks would be different with the lens vs. without the lens?


What I would do in your situation is shoot one with buckshot in a shotgun because I think it would be cool. Then I would just take or compound as long as your stab is under 20inches in sure it would be fine. Then just screw some mechanicals on your lightspeeds but I understand you don"t wanna mess them up. So here is my last idea you could invite me up aand we could use my bow aslong as I get the first shot. :teeth:


----------



## isaacdahl

Hahaha! Sure, come on up whenever ya want!

The first part of your post got me thinking...I wonder if I can use buckshot?

Hmm.....


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> yep, they usually have the same size thread.
> 
> if you go the route of the sword, i would have two sets of sight marks... one with the glass in and one with it out, just hunt with the glass out and use it as a single pin slider.
> 
> as for getting two diff arrows to tune, yep as long as spine is the same on both they will tune.


So how much of a hassle is it to switch between scopes? 

I'd prefer to use a multi pin sight or scope when it comes to hunting but if it's a big hassle to change out scopes, I can see how it would be impractical.


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Hahaha! Sure, come on up whenever ya want!
> 
> The first part of your post got me thinking...I wonder if I can use buckshot?
> 
> Hmm.....


I have never used it but my grandpa says they drop like a sled load of "crap" when you shoot them with buckshot. I have wanted to try it just for the heck of it.


----------



## N7709K

i'm not sure how the swords are, but on an axcel it takes seconds to switch scopes... one thumb screw and the scope block slides out, diff one slides in adn your ready to go


----------



## isaacdahl

muzzyman1212 said:


> I have never used it but my grandpa says they drop like a sled load of "crap" when you shoot them with buckshot. I have wanted to try it just for the heck of it.


Hahaha!

Maybe I'll give it a try. There's almost no regulations for crop damage permits. You can even use rifles (ohio's shotgun only) and I've even heard of people spotlighting.


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> i'm not sure how the swords are, but on an axcel it takes seconds to switch scopes... one thumb screw and the scope block slides out, diff one slides in adn your ready to go


I see what ya mean. I looked at some pics of the Titan and it appears that it's similar to the Axcel in that aspect, but I'm not sure. I'll have to check that out before I buy.


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Hahaha!
> 
> Maybe I'll give it a try. There's almost no regulations for crop damage permits. You can even use rifles (ohio's shotgun only) and I've even heard of people spotlighting.


There is a urban area around here that a game warden told us we could spotlight them legally and he would give us up to 20 some odd tags. We are gonna try to shoot some next year! It is archery only there though since it is a populated area. The problem is that we only have one landowner that said we could come hunt but we need more than that since its only 2 acres. I think some crop damage deer would be fun to shoot, you should try to get a couple on video!


----------



## isaacdahl

muzzyman1212 said:


> There is a urban area around here that a game warden told us we could spotlight them legally and he would give us up to 20 some odd tags. We are gonna try to shoot some next year! It is archery only there though since it is a populated area. The problem is that we only have one landowner that said we could come hunt but we need more than that since its only 2 acres. I think some crop damage deer would be fun to shoot, you should try to get a couple on video!


Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to it.

Will have to try to get some on video, that would be kind of fun.


----------



## isaacdahl

Do any of you guys use the classifieds on here? I've bought and sold a few things but today I got an "infraction" stating that I'm no longer aloud to use the classifieds until I'm 18. I always assumed it was fine because I always had my dad's permission, but I suppose I have no way to prove that to the mods.

It stinks because there's a lot of good deals in the classifieds. 

Anyways, just something for us to think about. I guess rules are rules...


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> Do any of you guys use the classifieds on here? I've bought and sold a few things but today I got an "infraction" stating that I'm no longer aloud to use the classifieds until I'm 18. I always assumed it was fine because I always had my dad's permission, but I suppose I have no way to prove that to the mods.
> 
> It stinks because there's a lot of good deals in the classifieds.
> 
> Anyways, just something for us to think about. I guess rules are rules...


I saw that the rules were that the kids under 18 can't buy/sell on the classifieds, but our parents can on our account. If they won't let you anymore, I would suggest that your parents make an account and then you just use it.


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Do any of you guys use the classifieds on here? I've bought and sold a few things but today I got an "infraction" stating that I'm no longer aloud to use the classifieds until I'm 18. I always assumed it was fine because I always had my dad's permission, but I suppose I have no way to prove that to the mods.
> 
> It stinks because there's a lot of good deals in the classifieds.
> 
> Anyways, just something for us to think about. I guess rules are rules...


Just have you dad make an account. I need my dad to make one!


----------



## isaacdahl

muzzyman1212 said:


> Just have you dad make an account. I need my dad to make one!


Yeah, that's what I plan on doing for now.


----------



## need-a-bow

I think that makes 4 of us(me and Bowhunter11 have both posted/bought on the classifieds)


muzzyman1212 said:


> Just have you dad make an account. I need my dad to make one!


----------



## N7709K

i've gotten dinged for it.. its kinda dumb, cause i can go to the shop and buy any of it in person.. but its just to protect minors


----------



## need-a-bow

I got a warning the other day but I understand


----------



## isaacdahl

I got five "points"...whatever the heck that means, lol


----------



## N7709K

let me guess, doc dinged ya?

i got 3 when i got hit.. oh well


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> let me guess, doc dinged ya?
> 
> i got 3 when i got hit.. oh well


Nope, Beamen123 got me.

How many points can you have before you get suspended? Do your points get reset every so often?


----------



## N7709K

yeah... they go away in a year


----------



## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> yeah... they go away in a year


I didn't even know we had points. I buy all my archery stuff at different shops around here and I have never had them say anything about my age. I guess its just a legal issue.


----------



## isaacdahl

muzzyman1212 said:


> I didn't even know we had points. I buy all my archery stuff at different shops around here and I have never had them say anything about my age. I guess its just a legal issue.


Maybe I'm wrong, but it only seems to be a problem when minor's buy and sell online vs. in person.


----------



## N7709K

it has to do with the protection of minors.. i'm not worried any more cause i'm turnin 18 this fall... but for the younger shooters, just have your parents create an account


----------



## isaacdahl

I have a little under two years before I turn 18 but I have 1year 363 days before I can use the classifieds. So for some reason I have to wait 2 years from the date that i received my infraction to use the classifieds again

But no worries, if I need to buy anything I'll just have my dad use his account.


----------



## N7709K

that works.. there are good deals on here, but i still buy most of my stuff direct or though my shop


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> that works.. there are good deals on here, but i still buy most of my stuff direct or though my shop


I tried to buy most of my stuff from the local proshop but I'll be buying a lot more off of here now that they went out of business.

There is another shop 45min. away, but I don't really care for the techs they have.


----------



## N7709K

I shoot for the local shop so I get good deals on thing, but I help out when I can too


----------



## isaacdahl

Somebody just offered to trade their Guardian converted to a shoot through system for my 101st.

Should I take the offer? The Guardian is such a good bow and to be honest my 101st is an "alright" bow. I really want to like it, but the rough draw really seems to get to me after a while. I especially have a hard time pulling the thing back in the middle of winter. It kind of a love/hate thing when it comes to my 101st. I like its speed and the longer ATA it's just that the Guardian is such a smooth drawing, super quiet bow. I'm happy enough with my 101st but idk it just doesn't seem always "fit" if that makes any sense. The other thing is I'd have to get 70lb limbs for it (comes with 60lbers) but hopefully I'd beable to trade the 60's for the 70's in the classifieds. I'd also need to get some lighter spined arrows which hopefully I'd be able to trade for some 400's in the classifieds.

I don't know what to do...seems like a good trade but I'm an over thinking when it comes to stuff.

So is it worth the extra time waiting fot the bow to arive and getting the correct arrows/limbs/and most likely mods? Like I said my 101st is good enough for me most days so idk.


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> Somebody just offered to trade their Guardian converted to a shoot through system for my 101st.
> 
> Should I take the offer? The Guardian is such a good bow and to be honest my 101st is an "alright" bow. I really want to like it, but the rough draw really seems to get to me after a while. I especially have a hard time pulling the thing back in the middle of winter. It kind of a love/hate thing when it comes to my 101st. I like its speed and the longer ATA it's just that the Guardian is such a smooth drawing, super quiet bow. I'm happy enough with my 101st but idk it just doesn't seem always "fit" if that makes any sense. The other thing is I'd have to get 70lb limbs for it (comes with 60lbers) but hopefully I'd beable to trade the 60's for the 70's in the classifieds. I'd also need to get some lighter spined arrows which hopefully I'd be able to trade for some 400's in the classifieds.
> 
> I don't know what to do...seems like a good trade but I'm an over thinking when it comes to stuff.
> 
> So is it worth the extra time waiting fot the bow to arive and getting the correct arrows/limbs/and most likely mods? Like I said my 101st is good enough for me most days so idk.


Based on your information, NO! You said that you had your 101st tuned perfectly for 3-D and that you didn't want to mess it up by tuning it for broadheads while your in the middle of 3-D season. If you traded it for the gaurdian, sure you might like it better, but you might not get it tuned perfect like your 101st. And if you don't, you might be missing some of your 3-D tournements. I think you would be way better off by not trading your bow. That is only from the information that you've already given. 
Most of My info is because of this


isaacdahl said:


> Basically, I have my bow set up for 3D and would rather not change it in the middle of 3D season, especially because I just got it set up to my liking.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I told the guy no and don't regret it, just thought I'd ask you guys what you would've done...not to much going on around here the last few days.

Just something I thought I'd bring up for some conversation.


----------



## need-a-bow

what are you guys gonna do on vacation? Im still a month away


----------



## N7709K

I wouldn't have traded because of the other things involved, like arrows etc. The shoot thru's are nice, take lean and torque out so the are more accurate.

If a bow doesn't fit you, you won't shoot at your potential with it unless you are on a really "hot" streak. I've been there and had to change up bows because they didn't fit me how I would like it to fit me


----------



## outdoorkid1

need-a-bow said:


> what are you guys gonna do on vacation? Im still a month away


The last 2 years my family and me went to chamberlian south dakota on a fishing trip. Caught some nice Walleyes and Northern Pike. I don't know what we are going to do this year :dontknow: But we might go to lake mcconaughy out in western Nebaska and see if we can get some of them big Walleyes.


----------



## N7709K

i got no idea for vacation.. my ol' man and step mom are out in fiji visiting one of the sisters, after than i'm going to my cabin for a bit... then its off to seward for the 4th and the interum until school starts. got a caribou hunt in there some where along with work and some fishin


----------



## N7709K

pulled limbs on the burner today.. hopefully the new ones will be in this week if not already in


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> pulled limbs on the burner today.. hopefully the new ones will be in this week if not already in


Are all xt2000's the same deflection? Basically, will 60# xt2000's for the burner fit the AE and still be 60#?


----------



## isaacdahl

Man, I've been shooting crappy the last few days. Just when I was starting to get good after not shooting all winter/working on bt, I've fell into another rut.

This backtension thing is kind of frustrating...I'll shoot well one week then shoot REALLY bad the next, etc.

Any tips Jacob? I try to blank bail 5-10 shots before each session and try not to over shoot but I'm starting to get frustrated with it.


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> Man, I've been shooting crappy the last few days. Just when I was starting to get good after not shooting all winter/working on bt, I've fell into another rut.
> 
> This backtension thing is kind of frustrating...I'll shoot well one week then shoot REALLY bad the next, etc.
> 
> Any tips Jacob? I try to blank bail 5-10 shots before each session and try not to over shoot but I'm starting to get frustrated with it.


The only advice I can give you is don't quit.


----------



## N7709K

isaacdahl said:


> Are all xt2000's the same deflection? Basically, will 60# xt2000's for the burner fit the AE and still be 60#?


 Nope, everyone is different. my burner and my ve+ are both 29" 60lbs with spirals. each one has a diff deflection, they vary from dl, cam type and family, etc.

the ae run xt comp limbs, not the xt2000's so they wouldn't fit on that account.


isaacdahl said:


> Man, I've been shooting crappy the last few days. Just when I was starting to get good after not shooting all winter/working on bt, I've fell into another rut.
> 
> This backtension thing is kind of frustrating...I'll shoot well one week then shoot REALLY bad the next, etc.
> 
> Any tips Jacob? I try to blank bail 5-10 shots before each session and try not to over shoot but I'm starting to get frustrated with it.


put the bow away and shoot a string for a week.. just relax and shoot a strong shot with out the bow in the way.. after that, shoot the bow blank bale for 30ish shots, focusin on an virtual x in your mind. then start close, like 10yds, and shoot some games reinforcing the good shots with a good hit.. slowly work back


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, thanks for the advice Jacob.

Sometimes I just need to have someone tell me the best thing to do is work on the string bow and blankbailing, lol. It's kind of hard to make myself put the bow down for a week or so, although i did succeed for over a month when I started out again with the hinge.

I'm sure working on my execution with a string bow and more blankbailing will help a great deal.

Thanks again


----------



## N7709K

the biggest thing is building a memory of a perfect shot and a perfect hit. when you shoot up close and have a perfect shot go dead center is builds up the feeling of "this is a perfect shot"

at the end of each session, what ever target you are shooting.. vegas, field round, fita, etc, shoot the number of arrows in a end and shoot them perfect. so for vegas, shoot 3 perfect shots, if it doesn't come together right away, let down.. and start over until the shot feels perfect from the draw


----------



## underdog145

Jacob is absolutely right. This year was the first year that i started regularly blank bailing in my basement due to not bein able to make it to the range every night because of scheduling among other things. For lancaster and vegas and other shoots, i sat in my basement and shot at about 6 yards at a vegas face for hours on end. Not only was i able to have a repeatable shot, but it is also a big confidence builder because when i go to pull my arrows, they are always in the middle of the x ring. And for 5 spot tournaments i did the very same thing. And i truly believe that that was one of the very big reasons that i found so much success indoors this past year.


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks Jacob and underdog. I'll go back to the string bow for rest of the weak than start blankbailing again next week.


----------



## N7709K

Just take it easy and shoot strong shots

You can shoot a string anytime just to practice the release, I do it, bridger does it, more or less everyone does. Before line times in vegas and other shoots you see a ton of people shootin on strings or morin


----------



## isaacdahl

Yep, I try to shoot a few shots every day on the string bow, but I think a few days of this and a some blankbailing will get me shooting strong again.


----------



## N7709K

What's nice about a string is you can shoot it anywhere sp you can always practice the release


----------



## isaacdahl

Do any of you guys keep track of how many shots you shoot per day and mark down scores etc. for future reference?

The reason I ask is because alot of competition rifle shooters do this and I wondered if it's a good idea for archers to do this also?


----------



## N7709K

I keep targets, but that's it.... I'll shoot a round or two at the range, if I'm shooting at home I just shoot for a bit. Usually don't score while I'm at home, for up close, I don't keep track


----------



## underdog145

i usually dont keep track how many i shoot, just how long. it doesnt seem to make too big of a difference if you know how many shots you take, to me it doesnt anyways. just as long as your actually shooting, not just flingin arrows.


----------



## N7709K

So when you shoot bridger, do you shoot for a couple hours and as many good shots as you can fit in you fit in? Or do you shoot a couple games that are spaced out into a couple hrs?


----------



## underdog145

I usually just go out and shoot, makin sure i make good shots. i just kinda keep track of what my average end score is. Every once in a while i might shoot half a fita game or somethin like that.


----------



## N7709K

switched out a mathews grip the other day, went from factory to focus... all in all its pretty easy

i got one day left of junior year, can't wait to get it done


----------



## N7709K

set the ae up today for 3d.. still need to sight it in, and i'm gonna check rest height after i'm done posting.. but its setup and ready to rock

got bored so i took some pics to check from between the bows i'm running for target this fall. before you critique too much, i am aiming lower with the ve+ since the ceiling height is too short to get all the way up to shoulder height.

I'm guessin some will say that the dl is long, but that is what feels comfortable and what i shoot the best


----------



## hoytarcherygal

nice lookin rig jake! oh and..........senior year HERE WE COME!!! lol


N7709K said:


> set the ae up today for 3d.. still need to sight it in, and i'm gonna check rest height after i'm done posting.. but its setup and ready to rock
> 
> got bored so i took some pics to check from between the bows i'm running for target this fall. before you critique too much, i am aiming lower with the ve+ since the ceiling height is too short to get all the way up to shoulder height.
> 
> I'm guessin some will say that the dl is long, but that is what feels comfortable and what i shoot the best


----------



## underdog145

your ve plus fast enough to shoot bare bow?  haha


----------



## underdog145

btw, the ceiling isnt too short, your just too tall. haha


----------



## N7709K

Yeah gorilla arms get in the way

Ask aaron about the sight


----------



## N7709K

set the ae up with lightspeeds and have it somewhat sighted in.. i'll get it on out to 50-70yds this week


----------



## isaacdahl

Kind of wish I would've gone with 400s instead of 340s when I got my Lightspeeds. At the poundage I'm shootin them at currently (around 65#) they don't seem to be very forgiving and it's kind of hard to get them to group well.

I've been trying to crank by bow up 1/4 turn or so every week, but it's taking me a while to get back up to 70#. I know 70#'s a lot of weight for shooting 3D but I want to be able to back it out a turn once hunting season gets near, that way I'll can shoot 68# or so easily.

How do you guys shoot 60# all summer than switch to a higher poundage bow for hunting season? I can see how it would be easier if you shot a smooth drawing bow, but that wouldn't hardly be doable with my 101st.


----------



## N7709K

isaacdahl said:


> Kind of wish I would've gone with 400s instead of 340s when I got my Lightspeeds. At the poundage I'm shootin them at currently (around 65#) they don't seem to be very forgiving and it's kind of hard to get them to group well.
> 
> I've been trying to crank by bow up 1/4 turn or so every week, but it's taking me a while to get back up to 70#. I know 70#'s a lot of weight for shooting 3D but I want to be able to back it out a turn once hunting season gets near, that way I'll can shoot 68# or so easily.
> 
> How do you guys shoot 60# all summer than switch to a higher poundage bow for hunting season? I can see how it would be easier if you shot a smooth drawing bow, but that wouldn't hardly be doable with my 101st.



what are the spec on your arrows? fletching and tip weight?

i don't have a problem going between 56-62lbs and 72lbs on my hoyts or the mathews that i play with.. but i used to shoot 70lbs alot


----------



## outdoorkid1

Why would you turn up your poundage for hunting? I think its rediculous that people actually turn up there poundage for hunting. I shoot 55lbs year round and don't plan on going up any time soon.


----------



## need-a-bow

To have confidence and extra speed I presume


----------



## N7709K

bad shots happen, insurance is a good thing

i prefer to shoot 70lbs, mostly because i can shoot a heavy arrow with lots of ke and momentum, once your used to it 70lbs isn't too bad... if you shoot alot


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> bad shots happen, insurance is a good thing
> 
> i prefer to shoot 70lbs, mostly because i can shoot a heavy arrow with lots of ke and momentum, once your used to it 70lbs isn't too bad... if you shoot alot


but I get pass throughs with 55lbs 95% of the time. If I have enough K/E and momentum to get a passthrough then why would I need any more?


----------



## N7709K

hit forward and try and put one through the front shoulders.. its tough to do with a 70lber

the same thing can be asked about gun hunting, a .22lr will kill a deer if you know what your doing but why do people chose .30cal and above?

its just an insurance policy and it allows for a buffer area, you also get speed with heavier arrows, or in my case can push a heavy arrow without a ton of drop right away, the other thing that you see with lots of 70lb shooters is that they are shorter dls 28" or shorter they need all the speed and power they can get because they have a short power stroke. You don't need 70lbs, 40lbs will kill a deer... if you feel comfortable with 50lbs and don't feel you need any more, more power to ya.


----------



## outdoorkid1

Well it seems to me that you only use 70lbs so that if you can't hit were your aiming you might still be able to find the animal. If your a good enough shot you don't need the extra poundage. :wink: People don't use the big calibers because they want "insurance", They use it Because thats what they got. Theres different calibers for different purposes, such as long range, short range, deer and elephant calibers. Of course a deer can be killed with a 22lr. Its just that a rimfire rifle is not ethical to use for these animals. center fire rifles with a caliber of .22 and above are legal to use in Nebraska. And theres a lot of deer that have had more damage done to them with a 22-250 with 1 shot than 1 shot from my 7mm WSM.


----------



## N7709K

outdoorkid1 said:


> Well it seems to me that you only use 70lbs so that if you can't hit were your aiming you might still be able to find the animal. If your a good enough shot you don't need the extra poundage. :wink: People don't use the big calibers because they want "insurance", They use it Because thats what they got. Theres different calibers for different purposes, such as long range, short range, deer and elephant calibers. Of course a deer can be killed with a 22lr. Its just that a rimfire rifle is not ethical to use for these animals. center fire rifles with a caliber of .22 and above are legal to use in Nebraska. And theres a lot of deer that have had more damage done to them with a 22-250 with 1 shot than 1 shot from my 7mm WSM.



it not that you don't hit where you aim, its that bad shots happen.. animal move.. things deflect.. if you hunt long enough you will have it happen. it is impossible to be perfect 100% of the time, it doesn't happen

i think you missed the point of the rifle cal. its has nothing to do with purpose, it has to do that a small cal will drop an animal as well as a larger caliber if the shot is perfect. when a shot goes bad, the bigger cal wins out because it has the "insurance policy"


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> what are the spec on your arrows? fletching and tip weight?
> 
> i don't have a problem going between 56-62lbs and 72lbs on my hoyts or the mathews that i play with.. but i used to shoot 70lbs alot


340's, 26.5" carbon-to-carbon, unis, x2's, microlite inserts (10gr.), and 100gr. screw in points. Weighing a total of 366gr.
Originally, I was going to go with 400's but at the last minute I changed my mind; wasn't confident that 400's would be stiff enough (but I knew 340's would be to stiff). I know I should have had them cut longer, but I didn't want an arrow heavier than it already would be:doh: kind of had a stupid moment there.


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> its just an insurance policy and it allows for a buffer area, you also get speed with heavier arrows, or in my case can push a heavy arrow without a ton of drop right away, the other thing that you see with lots of 70lb shooters is that they are shorter dls 28" or shorter they need all the speed and power they can get because they have a short power stroke. You don't need 70lbs, 40lbs will kill a deer... if you feel comfortable with 50lbs and don't feel you need any more, more power to ya.


That's exactly why I like to shoot around 70# for hunting...I like to be able to shoot a heavy arrow and still have good speed, which is hard enough to get with a 27.5" dl let alone at 60#.


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> That's exactly why I like to shoot around 70# for hunting...I like to be able to shoot a heavy arrow and still have good speed, which is hard enough to get with a 27.5" dl let alone at 60#.


but why would you change the poundage from 60 to 70? :dontknow: you would have to retune every thing.


----------



## isaacdahl

outdoorkid1 said:


> but why would you change the poundage from 60 to 70? :dontknow: you would have to retune every thing.


I guess I should explain a little better.

When I used to shoot 60# I didn't get very good speed with a heavy arrow. At 70# it allows me to shoot a heavy arrow and still maintain good speed.


----------



## N7709K

Isaac, i would bump up the tip weight a little on your arrows.. they will spine out a little better. the 340's cut that short are acting like a 300 spine.

He may or may not have to retune, depends on his arrows and his bow. I'm gonna say that he would have to anyhow since he isn't gonna hunt with lightspeeds


----------



## underdog145

so, you can either shoot lower poundage and make better shots or shoot a higher poundage and be able to slack off on your execution...? With how bows are made today anyhow, you dont need the extra poundage to push you over 280 fps. My 375 gr protours are comin out of my VE+ at about 279-280 and at only 28 inches and 58 pounds. Heck, my hunting bow last year was actually one of my older, blacked out vantages and it was only shooting 250 fps, and i was still able to have a pass through on my deer. I personally find it much easier to shoot a lighter bow that you can have more confidence and consistency with than one that you may struggle to shoot well just to pick up 10-15 extra fps.


----------



## N7709K

You still need to be proficient with a 70lb bow, maybe more so, you can't slack off with anything. 

WOW, those tours are smokin outta your ve+... and i thought mine was fast pushing a 347gr lightspeed at 287 29" 56lb...


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## underdog145

Great article on hoyts website about this very discussion. Go check it out. 

http://www.hoyt.com/community/article_detail.php?id=94


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## N7709K

Good article

thanks Bridger


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## isaacdahl

Yes, very good article.

Kind of why I like to shoot a 70# bow for hunting. Dare I say it, but I'm some what of a speed freak when it comes to my hunting arrows. I like to be able to shoot a 400+ grain arrow at around 280fps.

But I get what your saying about being able to shoot comfortably. That is more important than arrow speed, but I can't help myself. I'm young and sometimes ignorant, sometimes you've just gotta humor me:embara:. Some day I'll learn...lol

Thanks again for the great article.


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> Yes, very good article.
> 
> Kind of why I like to shoot a 70# bow for hunting. Dare I say it, but I'm some what of a speed freak when it comes to my hunting arrows. I like to be able to shoot a 400+ grain arrow at around 280fps.
> 
> But I get what your saying about being able to shoot comfortably. That is more important than arrow speed, but I can't help myself. I'm young and sometimes ignorant, sometimes you've just gotta humor me:embara:. Some day I'll learn...lol
> 
> Thanks again for the great article.


atleast you admit it


----------



## isaacdahl

outdoorkid1 said:


> atleast you admit it


I try lol.

I was being a little sarcastic though. I'm not really that bad, but you get the point...there's always that little voice in the back of my head.


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## underdog145

dont worry bud. we all try to make things better. haha. its tough not to mess with somethin even when its shooting well. always gotta try to make things better.


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## isaacdahl

Yeah, I know what mean, lol


----------



## N7709K

did a little custom work to the ae today.. aaron might have a real treat in store if it tunes up good with 2a mods


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## isaacdahl

So I read that you changed to #3 cams. What's the main difference between the #2 and #3 besides ones a little smoother? Isn't the #2 cam for shorter dl and the #3 for longer, but they still overlap, letting you choose between either one if your dl falls in between the two?

Sorry, don't know much about Hoyt's cams.


----------



## isaacdahl

Just got my Sword Titan in the mail today. Bought it used and it came with everything that it comes with new (scope, lens, and hard case) plus a sun shield. The great part is I only had to pay $165 for it and it's in really good shape, no scratches on the lens or anything.


----------



## N7709K

i went from 3's to two.. was going to loan it to a friend with a short dl...but with how its set now idk if it worth it. its short strung so the cams are over rotated, there is some bottom cam lean, and i'm gettin bad arrow flight..

the #2/#3 cams overlap at 28" dl for the 31/32" ata and 29" on the 35" ata


----------



## N7709K

i got pics up on facebook of the ae with the number 2's .. i'm not sure how its gonna work


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## isaacdahl

Oops, must of read that wrong. I thought you went from 2's to 3's. So is it short strung on purpose or because you haven't gotten new strings for #2's?


----------



## N7709K

no i didn't have strings for the twos and i'm not gonna get strings for the twos.. i was tryin it out to see if it would work, as it turns out it would. I used the string from my alphamax and the cables from teh ae. the string was a little short, i don't remember off the tune charts, but it was close enough. the cables were a little long, twisted them up to get rid of cam lean and it brought poundage back up to bout 60ish

in the end i didn't trust it without a new set of strings and then some tweaking, i might try it this fall for indoor season since it gave it a better roll into the valley and a really long valley with the xtr's. the fuels on the ae are nice, but i like xtr's better


----------



## underdog145

jacob, i wouldnt worry to much about the strings bein a little off. and them bein off of different bows. did you see what i was shootin for indoor nationals? haha. I had a fuse buss, with a vaportrail control and an americas best for the string. haha. get em close and it wont hurt nothin.


----------



## N7709K

Really? I didn't notice they were diff... shows how much I pay attention, lol

The issue came down to the cables, they were both half inch + long so they got rather twisted tryin to get it close


----------



## underdog145

ehh, my string was 3/4 in too long and one cable was nearly a whole inch long. good thing the cables were vaportrails tho. otherwise i dont think i could have put that many twists into an americas best. haha


----------



## Aaron Groce

underdog145 said:


> ehh, my string was 3/4 in too long and one cable was nearly a whole inch long. good thing the cables were vaportrails tho. otherwise i dont think i could have put that many twists into an americas best. haha


ya know what bridge why dont we just give you a stick and a piece of rope so that way Jacob, Josh and i can have a chance???


----------



## N7709K

What he said, if you can smoke us all without the right strings and cables you need to step up dude

Great shootin there by the way


----------



## underdog145

haha. well thanks for the complements guys. just lettin ya know, just switched my ve+ from spirals to some cam and a half plus. gonna see how those treat me since they have treated me a lot better than i deserve in the past. haha. but we'll find out tomorrow.


----------



## isaacdahl

Think I'm gonna turn my 101st back down towards 60#. Might have to get different arrows (probably can trade the ones I have now for some 400 spines in the classifieds) because I jacked up my shoulder lifting weights the other day. Shoulders been bothering me for a year or so now, but yesterday after working out my arm/shoulder joint started to hurt like crap.

I starting to believe what you said about lower poundage is true underdog. Never really been able to get the 101st past 65# anyways...that thing has the worst draw cycle of any bow to this date, lol.


----------



## N7709K

A rough draw takes it outta the shoulders don't it? I might know someone with a set of 60lb 82nd limbs he'd sell or trade up if the deflection would work out.

I'm not around a comp for the next two weeks in so I'm not on here much.. pm or text at 2187600735 is the best was to get ahold of me... or just shine the bat symbol on the clouds


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks Jacob. Not sure if I'll get different limbs yet or not. Bowtech no longer makes limbs for the 101st (can't even get them from Barnsdale) so if I'd switch out to used limbs it would more than likely void my warranty. With 82nd limbs I'd also need to get different cables (82nd limbs are shorter than 101st) but it's about time for new strings and cables anyways. 2008 limbs were solid limbs and they had tons of problems with them. 2009 they discontinued the 101st but kept the 82nd and put laminated limbs on them. 

I guess warranty doesn't really mean anything though. Maybe now's the time to do an awesome frankenbow; always wanted to try that! How about 2010 Elite Rev cams with 82nd limbs, powder coat the riser gloss black and chrome the cams and limb pockets:shade:. That'd make an awesome 3d bow!

Sorry, got a little off track and carried away for a second, lol. Don't have money for a frankenbow at the time.

I'll let ya know if I need any limbs, though.


----------



## isaacdahl

I've heard that Bowtech made smooth mods for the Airbornes at one time, but I've never been able to find them; they're not even listed on bowtechs mod chart. Sure wish I could come across them now.


----------



## isaacdahl

I have my 101st up for trade.

If anyone needs a great 3D bow, this is it.


----------



## N7709K

shot a round of 3d today, wow i have gotten rusty... yardage was ok, got dead on towards the end.. but i had a miss and i put one through a skunk at 32yds 

goin back and gonna shoot it again tomorrow


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I always seem to do fairly well my first 10 targets than I shoot the next 10 really crappy then the next 10 really well, lol.


----------



## N7709K

I'm taking the other bow tomorrow, so that might help


----------



## awirtz26

> Yeah, I always seem to do fairly well my first 10 targets than I shoot the next 10 really crappy then the next 10 really well, lol.


my first one is good then there all crapy.


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> I have my 101st up for trade.
> 
> If anyone needs a great 3D bow, this is it.


:lol3: wow


----------



## underdog145

N7709K said:


> shot a round of 3d today, wow i have gotten rusty... yardage was ok, got dead on towards the end.. but i had a miss and i put one through a skunk at 32yds
> 
> goin back and gonna shoot it again tomorrow


did you make sure to write all the yardages down??? hahaha.


----------



## N7709K

No, Bridger, that would have been the smart thing to do

I'm just so used to spots where they don't move, well move all that much lol


----------



## underdog145

tell ya what, mine move all the time!!! i know its not me. im never wrong. :shade:


----------



## N7709K

You must be really good at shootin movin targets, 

How the cam.5 + treatin ya? Spirals are my friends, lol


----------



## underdog145

well, i felt bad about cheatin on the spirals behind their back, so i decided to put them back on. haha. i always have my little side afair with my back up bow if i really need it. :kiss: haha


----------



## N7709K

Oh Bridger, you are such a player . LOL


----------



## underdog145

naa. im just good.  hahaha.


----------



## isaacdahl

outdoorkid1 said:


> :lol3: wow


What? Messed up my rotator cuff and need to take it easy for a while...the 101st is a great bow, but it's kinda rough on the shoulders.


----------



## isaacdahl

Anyone here shot a Sentinel before? Gonna call the shop up tomorrow...think they may have one I can try out. Reason I ask, someone wants to trade there Sentinel for my 101st. I like the specs and all, but I've heard the draw on similar bows (admiral and captain) really isn't very smooth. Don't see how it could be near as bad as the airbornes though.


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> What? Messed up my rotator cuff and need to take it easy for a while...the 101st is a great bow, but it's kinda rough on the shoulders.


Well you made a big deal about how you don't want to mess with it because its tuned to perfection and now you want to sell it. Just turn down the poundage and you will be fine.


----------



## isaacdahl

I don't really want to mess with it now, but even with turned down it's hard on my shoulder.


----------



## N7709K

You don't wanna hurt your shoulders, it sucks.

I've shot a sentinal a but but Adam had/has one... I can't think of his user name right now. 

Are you looking for a huntin bow or a target rig for trade?


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> You don't wanna hurt your shoulders, it sucks.
> 
> I've shot a sentinal a but but Adam had/has one... I can't think of his user name right now.
> 
> Are you looking for a huntin bow or a target rig for trade?


I'd use it for both, but I'm leaning more towards a target rig...long ata, good brace height, smooth draw.


----------



## Sighting In

isaacdahl said:


> Anyone here shot a Sentinel before? Gonna call the shop up tomorrow...think they may have one I can try out. Reason I ask, someone wants to trade there Sentinel for my 101st. I like the specs and all, but I've heard the draw on similar bows (admiral and captain) really isn't very smooth. Don't see how it could be near as bad as the airbornes though.


Yep, I shot one for about a year and liked it a lot. Its draw really is smooth. When you get out to the longer draw lengths there starts to get a bit of a bump at the end, but at 27.5" you should be fine, and it's not something that is a real killer. The wall is REALLY nice and hard on it. The valley isn't very long, but it doesn't need to be; I promise it's comfortable. It also holds very well. I liked mine a lot and shot some of my best indoor scores with it. The only reason I'm not shooting it anymore is because I wanted to chance brands this year, but I still recommend it for sure.


----------



## isaacdahl

Bummer

The guy backed out on the deal...was looking for something shorter than the 101st. I really had my heart set on the Sentinel, but I guess I'll have to continue looking. Someone offered to trade a '08 vantage x8 w/ spirals, but idk, looking for something geared more towards 3D/hunting than indoors.


----------



## underdog145

isaacdahl said:


> Bummer
> 
> The guy backed out on the deal...was looking for something shorter than the 101st. I really had my heart set on the Sentinel, but I guess I'll have to continue looking. Someone offered to trade a '08 vantage x8 w/ spirals, but idk, looking for something geared more towards 3D/hunting than indoors.


Ill tell you what. A Vantage X8 with spirals is gonna be much faster than you think. If im right, i should be the exact same specs as a Vantage pro with spirals. Due to the fact that the X8 has 2000 limbs like the pro. The pro is doing 308 ATA with spirals at 41" axle to axle with 7 3/4" brace which will give you quite a bit more in the forgiveness category. It may not be the fastest bow on the range, but it will defiantly do the job when it is asked too. I had a Vantage X8 with cam and a half plus right after they released it and have been shooting bows of that geometry ever since.


----------



## N7709K

I had an x8 too... it shot very well and was pretty quick

Had cam.5+ so I sold it, but it punched a lot of 300's


----------



## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Bummer
> 
> The guy backed out on the deal...was looking for something shorter than the 101st. I really had my heart set on the Sentinel, but I guess I'll have to continue looking. Someone offered to trade a '08 vantage x8 w/ spirals, but idk, looking for something geared more towards 3D/hunting than indoors.


I would be looking for a guardian, captain, or a elite GT500. Those bow have the specs to be a 3d/hunting bow and should be smoother than your 101st.


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks for the help and opinions guys. Think I'm gonna hang in there a little longer and see what happens.


----------



## arhoythunter

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I think I 12 ring him.


----------



## isaacdahl

Is that a .30-30 brass on the end of your arrow?

Nice shot by the way:wink:.


----------



## arhoythunter

Ya I got bored a week or so a go. Your One of the first to get that right. So fat killed 1bird a crow and that squirrel with it.


----------



## isaacdahl

Cool, how do you keep it on the end of the arrow without it flying off? Just out of curiosity I weight a .30-30 brass and it weighed roughly 135gr.


----------



## arhoythunter

I Hammered a bladeless fixed blade broadhead into it.


----------



## isaacdahl

arhoythunter said:


> I Hammered a bladeless fixed blade broadhead into it.


Oh...I guess that'd work lol.


----------



## arhoythunter

Ya just gotta shoot it for 30 if it's 20, 40 if it's 30 and 50 if it's 40


----------



## N7709K

So when is your new rig supposed to show up?


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> So when is your new rig supposed to show up?


The guy I'm getting it from is sending it 2 day guaranteed so I'm expecting to get it on Thursday. I'm really pumped and can't wait for it to get here! Now I just need to get some 400 spines. Should make an awesome 3D bow. What speeds do you think I should expect to get with a roughly 300ish grain arrow? I assume it'll max at about 61-62lbs and I'll be shooting it at around 27-27.5" dl. I thinking some where around in the mid to high 280's?

I think you were asking me when my rig was supposed to show up, but maybe you were asking someone else:dontknow: Sorry if you weren't, lol.


----------



## N7709K

Wow, you got a good deal. I always ship them or get them just standard ups ground

You said in a different thread that you were gonna get astroflite(sp)... I've never used it so I can't say how it will hold up, I use vt's and I think those are 8125. I run halo on everything now and it holds up a lot better. Then again I'm not picky, they all work, I just shoot


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, the guy needed the 101st asap and wanted me to ship it 2 day guaranteed. He said he'd do the same also. I usually try to go the cheapest route when it comes to shipping, but at least I won't have to wait long to get it. Astroflite has me interested as of lately. It has really good reviews and is supposed to be comparable to 8125 but with a lot less creep. Don't know when I'll get a set, depends on the quality of the strings that are on the Sentinel.

Messed up the specs really bad this morning on the 101st. The owners manual states that you can back out the limb bolts to work on the bow if needed, and since I don't have a press at home i thought I'd give it a try. Well, I got em backed out really far, but I was worried that it'd blow up in my face, so I decided just to leave it. Once I got the limbs bottomed out again, the ATA was off by a good 1/4" and the BH by about 1/8" off. I've got to get it in the mail tonight, so I don't know what I'll do.


----------



## isaacdahl

:mg:There's an Axcel slider (doesn't state which model) in the classifieds for $150 or $225 with scope! I could kick myself in the face for just buying a Sword Titan a couple weeks ago, lol. I did get a good deal on the Titan, so I'm not really to depressed, :tongue:.

Good deal if anyone needs an awesome sight.


----------



## Chelsey Day

Just found this. Im 15 and love bowhunting and just bought a mission craze I live in SE Michigan


----------



## isaacdahl

Chelsey Day said:


> Just found this. Im 15 and love bowhunting and just bought a mission craze I live in SE Michigan


Nice to meat you.

You'll love archery talk; great place to hang out and meat some great people.


----------



## N7709K

Bottoming out and bring back probably just stretched things, it happens.

I've never had creep issues with any of my vts after they settle. I've had a lot of shots on a set or two and they don't look too bad.


----------



## underdog145

N7709K said:


> Bottoming out and bring back probably just stretched things, it happens.
> 
> I've never had creep issues with any of my vts after they settle. I've had a lot of shots on a set or two and they don't look too bad.


When i shot vaportrails, they were a well built string and i liked them. I just wanted a little bit beefer string so decided to go with Americas Best. But any string you get will settle or "stretch". No matter what the box says about them. I usually put mine on and let them "bake" in the sunlight in a window or something for a day or so. I then put a D-loop on and shoot 100+ arrows thru them before i put the peep in. Even after that, there is still a little creep, but not too much.


----------



## N7709K

Interesting way of breaking em in bridger, never heard that one... I just shoot mine a week, so a good bunch of shots.. then tune it up


----------



## underdog145

Yeah. Its always seemed to work for me. Not quite flawless, but what is?


----------



## isaacdahl

Does anyone need 1/2dz lightspeeds in 340 spine? Wish I would've bough 400's in the first place, then I'd have an arrow that could use at 60#. Can't seem to get rid of the stupid things in the classifieds.


----------



## Chelsey Day

isaacdahl said:


> Nice to meat you.
> 
> You'll love archery talk; great place to hang out and meat some great people.


ive been a member for sometime now I just have never had the time, if that makes since


----------



## N7709K

What length on the arrows? Tips and fletch?

It's always nice to see new faces around here


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> What length on the arrows? Tips and fletch?


26.5" carbon to carbon, ultralight inserts (10gr), 100gr screw in tips, and x2's.


----------



## N7709K

Too short and stiff for me


----------



## isaacdahl

My Sentinel should arrive today via ups! Been waiting a whole 2 days and it's killing me, lol. Glad I don't have to wait the regular 2 weeks for it to arrive.

Don't have any arrows yet. PMed Sighting In and asked him what he thought on spine (leaning towards 400's or possibly 500's) because the Sentinel, from what I've heard, prefers a weaker spine. I do have some really cheap carbon express arrows in 400 spine my dad got with his bow that I'll just use until I get some decent ones. They're junk, they very by like 10gr out of the half dozen, but at least it's something to shoot.

I'll post some pics once it gets here.


----------



## N7709K

I'm not sure what the sentinel tunes with, but at your dl you can run a weak spine and at the length you cut them they will act like a stiffer spine. So you mitt be able to tune with 500s just fine


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> I'm not sure what the sentinel tunes with, but at your dl you can run a weak spine and at the length you cut them they will act like a stiffer spine. So you mitt be able to tune with 500s just fine


Now that I think of it, I may just have a 500 epic sitting around that I can try out. I also have a couple 400's also but first I need to get some H nocks; busted all the ones I have.


----------



## N7709K

Those might tune good I'm guessing a short 500 will work better than a short 400


----------



## isaacdahl

My bow was supposed to show up today but it didn't. So much for 2 day shipping. The worst part of it was that I was going to take it to PA with me over the weekend to get set up at a real nice proshop they have out there.

Oh, well.


----------



## isaacdahl

isaacdahl said:


> My bow was supposed to show up today but it didn't. So much for 2 day shipping. The worst part of it was that I was going to take it to PA with me over the weekend to get set up at a real nice proshop they have out there.
> 
> Oh, well.


He ended up having a very good reason for getting it shipped late, so all's well. It should be here Monday when I return.


----------



## N7709K

That's good, stuff cones up at times and things get out a day late


----------



## isaacdahl

Well my Sentinel came in the mail today. I stuck a rest and sight on it to shoot it a bit and found the dl to run long. I have it set on 27" but it almost seems to be longer than my 101st was at 27.5". It is out of spec a little though; it's about 1/16 off on ata and bh but I didn't think that would make to big of a difference. Don't have a press here at home yet, so I plan on making one this week. Also needs new strings...the string is really frayed around the peep.

It shoots alright though...considering the work it needs done on it. I'm sure I'll like it more once I get new strings on it and tune it up good.


----------



## N7709K

How far are the limb backed out? That will change the dl alot.


----------



## BBD8PT1

Man love the idea!


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> How far are the limb backed out? That will change the dl alot.


They were maxed out when I was shooting it but I just turned it down a bit because my shoulder's bothering me again.

My dad won't let me get a new set of strings (don't know why, I'm the one paying for them, not him) and says I should just get a new string for now...no cables and he doesn't really want me getting a custom string. I usually like to buy a whole set especially when it's a 2009 and the string and cables are still factory. I guess I won't be trying out a set of astros now...


----------



## underdog145

Have you ever tried makin your own strings?


----------



## isaacdahl

underdog145 said:


> Have you ever tried makin your own strings?


Hmmm...I've thought about it before but I guess I never wanted to bother with it. Maybe I'll have to consider that. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## N7709K

You make yours Bridger or do you just buy em?

Isaac, what are you looking at for custom strings? Wc? Vts?


----------



## underdog145

I buy mine. I dont have the patience nor the ability to make my own. Haha. Im much too picky. But i do know a few people that do and they seem to be pretty good at it.


----------



## Sighting In

A buddy of mine makes his strings for his recurve, but all the compound shooters in my area worth talking about buy Winner's Choice or Vapor Trail or the like.


----------



## N7709K

Lot of guys run wc out that way Adam? Here its all vts or other customs... Only the hunters run wc


----------



## Aaron Groce

Ive ran nothin but Vts since i started shooting decent. best strings ever, never had a problem with them.


----------



## underdog145

I thought you were makin your own strings aaron?


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> You make yours Bridger or do you just buy em?
> 
> Isaac, what are you looking at for custom strings? Wc? Vts?


Was thinking about 60x. WC, in my opinion is way over priced. As for Vaportrail, I guess I haven't looked into them yet. What's the turn around time for them?


----------



## N7709K

Vts have like a 2-3day order to arrival time


----------



## Sighting In

My shop mostly sells WC, and we are the biggest shop in the greater Phoenix area, so that's what most of the guys use. We can/have sold Vapor Trail, but we haven't had nearly as much luck working with them as the guys at WC. Not bashing the company, but my rep prefers not to work with them.


----------



## underdog145

i personally have never really had any luck with WC. That and the few guys around me that have them have had a ton of problems. Things like the string or cables coming in with no twists or the serving separating way too quickly on the cams.


----------



## Aaron Groce

nope ive never made a set i dont even know how i have too much OCD to make them. I know ivan does and make them preaty good so ive heard


----------



## N7709K

I'm to uninformed on strings that I wouldn't try to make them. I just buy vts and I'm set I go


----------



## underdog145

Anyone been lookin into the new Tru Ball release? Looks pretty sweet if the leaked picture is the real thing.


----------



## Sighting In

Saw the post of it on Facebook. Anybody know what it is? Thumb trigger, wrist strap? Sucks because my new Tru Ball should be in next week. May have ordered too soon...


----------



## N7709K

I saw the truball one, its a hinge


----------



## underdog145

It is supposed to be a floating head back tension. Almost like an HT 360, making it so there isnt any side to side torque on the d-loop. Found out its called the "Inside-Out" and the first finger is a hole. Actually looks pretty similar to the Scott black hole but the back fingers are interchangeable so that you can buy different finger posts and have a 2, 3, or 4 finger release, with or without the finger grooves. And looks like the travel adjustment is controlled by spinning the whole ring that your first finger sits in. I know I plan on getting one.  haha.


----------



## N7709K

You'll have to let me know how they are Bridger, it's gonna be a while to get one in alaska


----------



## isaacdahl

underdog145 said:


> It is supposed to be a floating head back tension. Almost like an HT 360, making it so there isnt any side to side torque on the d-loop. Found out its called the "Inside-Out" and the first finger is a hole. Actually looks pretty similar to the Scott black hole but the back fingers are interchangeable so that you can buy different finger posts and have a 2, 3, or 4 finger release, with or without the finger grooves. And looks like the travel adjustment is controlled by spinning the whole ring that your first finger sits in. I know I plan on getting one.  haha.


Wow, sounds really nice. Great idea with the floating head...I guess I'm not the only one who has torque problems with a hinge. Will I be getting one? Probably not (I'm not made of money like you big shots here, lol) I'll just buy one in 2 or 3 years when they're half the price:wink: lol.


----------



## N7709K

How I justify a purchase, is if it will add points/x's to my game then I go for it. If it doesn't or is nothin better than what I have I pass


----------



## outdoorkid1

underdog145 said:


> It is supposed to be a floating head back tension. Almost like an HT 360, making it so there isnt any side to side torque on the d-loop. Found out its called the "Inside-Out" and the first finger is a hole. Actually looks pretty similar to the Scott black hole but the back fingers are interchangeable so that you can buy different finger posts and have a 2, 3, or 4 finger release, with or without the finger grooves. And looks like the travel adjustment is controlled by spinning the whole ring that your first finger sits in. I know I plan on getting one.  haha.


So how much $$$


----------



## N7709K

Idk retail on them but I'm guessing 250$ ish... I'm picking one up, if I get paid in time do you think I could have you snag me a 3 large Bridger? I'll pay shipping and a little for your time


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> Idk retail on them but I'm guessing 250$ ish... I'm picking one up, if I get paid in time do you think I could have you snag me a 3 large Bridger? I'll pay shipping and a little for your time


 :mg: :mg: :mg: :mg: :mg:


----------



## outdoorkid1

Here it is http://www.jvd.nl/nieuws/2011/6/26-tru-ball-inside-out-release.html


----------



## isaacdahl

Man, that's an awesome looking release! Confused on how it would work though. Seems like it would be hard for a hinge-based release (if that's what it is) to go off with a rotating head.


----------



## N7709K

The head rotates on one axis and that's it. You have a 360degree rotating head so torque is gone, that's all. I'm getting one for sure. If they work well, a second. Reo has had one for a bit and really likes it.

Yeah the price is high, but that's the cost of x's/points your game


----------



## isaacdahl

Never mind, just realized you could click on the image to make it bigger. From the looks of it, it looks like it's just a basic spike and by adjusting the position of the head by rotating the finger hole, you get your different speeds. Awesome idea...now I'd really like to try one!


----------



## isaacdahl

Oh, hey Jacob, just realized you're logged in too.

Is my assumption correct? Is it just a "spike" so to speak?


----------



## N7709K

Kinda... You've seen an ht? It's an ht hook, minis the micro adjust, so like a bt gold hook with the swivel capabilities. You rotate the handle to set what looks like feel/travel... But you can adjust it at the hook also.

They are spendy, but this is a release that will guaranty more points and x's. I'm going to get one for sure, I was committed sight unseen earlier. Probably will get an ht also. Options are always nice.


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, I think I know what you mean. 

So do you think you would use this release for tournaments; I thought you favored thumbs for most of your shooting? Would this release just be more forgiving of torque since the angle would be less severe or how would one come to the conclusion that it would guaranty more points?

Wow, that's a lot of questions, sorry about that. This release just has me really interested.


----------



## Aaron Groce

mainly what a hindge does over a thumb is life if your having a good day it will tighten up your groups even more vs a bad day to where it will open them up even more. thats why if you notice people like reo braden Ben ect will switch reliese from day to day to gust shoot what they feal thaey can shoot better. that day. on a great day which is the only day i can shopot a hindge my groups shring a lot and i mean a lot like X ring at 50 on a good day i can shoot 4Xes out of 6 with my hindge but on a bad day i will get total flyers out there to the 8 ring. thats why i shoot my thumb mostly. on a good day my groops might not hit as many xes but on a bad day i wont be throwing any 8s eather


----------



## isaacdahl

Huh, that's interesting. I don't have ever shoot a thumb (had a Stan sx2 for awhile but have since gotten rid of it) and pretty much always shoot my Zenith. I've noticed that my bad days are really bad but my good days are awesome. I always thought that was me, not the release. Well ya learn something new everyday I guess. Any clue to why this happens?


----------



## N7709K

I shoot a hinge for everything so this is gonna be one of my comp releases. 

Thumbs are easier to shoot in the wind than a hinge


----------



## Aaron Groce

were just human we all have good days and bad days. the only 30 X game i have ever shot was with my bt but i shoot a lot more consistant with the thumb which i average 24+Xes with 2315s


----------



## Aaron Groce

Jacob i thought you shot an absolute 360?


----------



## N7709K

On a bad day you don't have as good of pressure differential over the release and you tense up, causing flyers. A bt is very accurate but the time, blood, sweat, tears that you have to put into one are time-consuming. I'm having a tough time past 40yds right now because I haven't practiced much.

Pull out the pinky and it drives em, but the poi is off


----------



## N7709K

I have one, broke it out at Louisville... So let me go back, two seasons ago I shot an ht, sweet release I outgrew it... Went to absolute. Shot that for a million shots and then got my 360 on Friday before I shot Vegas... Smoked Vegas with it and then get a pair of new hinges after I got a little bout of tp just stuck with hinges, but I can rock a pinky too... And way more often


----------



## isaacdahl

What do you guys think of using astro for my new string? Seems unorthodox to use brownell and bcy (cables are 452x) on the same bow, lol. Actually, I'm just looking for something a little faster than 452x but can't find many people on here that use 8125 so the closest thing would be astro. Don't know why it wouldn't work but what do guys think anyways?


----------



## N7709K

Thats all Greek to me, I'm like Levi I shoots what I gets as far as strings go. There are diff materials, strand counts, serving, methods, etc


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> What do you guys think of using astro for my new string? Seems unorthodox to use brownell and bcy (cables are 452x) on the same bow, lol. Actually, I'm just looking for something a little faster than 452x but can't find many people on here that use 8125 so the closest thing would be astro. Don't know why it wouldn't work but what do guys think anyways?


They all work so go with what ever you want.


----------



## underdog145

N7709K said:


> I shoot a hinge for everything so this is gonna be one of my comp releases.
> 
> Thumbs are easier to shoot in the wind than a hinge


I wouldnt go as far as to say that. Have you ever shot a thumb in the wind and try to shoot pure BT? Its tough not to get a little punchy. haha


----------



## N7709K

I just said shoot, not shoot correctly, lol. I haven't for a good while but I know what you mean. Sometimes tho ou need to be able to say the shot goes now


----------



## Sighting In

I do find the hing hard to shoot in the wind, if only for this reason: when the wind comes, I want to pull into it harder to help keep steady (or as steady as I can). With a hinge you can't do that because if you pull harder, it's just going to go off sooner an usually too fast, so I found I was stuck pulling the same pressure, making me sway all over the place in wind. With a trigger, you can pull into it all day with your thumb off and not worry about it, and then put the finger on. You just have a few more options, and in the wind I feel I need that. Maybe when I become the next Reo I won't need that so much...


----------



## isaacdahl

That's one thing I don't like about a hinge. The place I mainly shoot is out the country and a lot of times it's really windy...drives me crazy trying to shoot the thing in the wind. I usually end up stopping for the day or waiting until it's not so windy.


----------



## Aaron Groce

i think reo just pulls in more wiht his pointer finger. ik bridge, braden, cody reo can shoot one in the wind its all abouot how much pressure you preload with. but if you dont have your cams perfectly time then it wont help ya any cause then ya will have high low misses


----------



## N7709K

Reo draws with index and shoots kinda like it's a 2 finger. I can shoot one in the wind too, but it rood some playing to get the right combo. You just need a comfortable release that you can shoot a solid shot with and them just shoot your shot, learn the pattern of the drift..

For me a bt gold ultra 3 with a mag thumb peg works best, I have it set a little heavier than I would for a strictly indoor one, but it rocks at both.


----------



## Aaron Groce

well it dont matter we have already decided that Reo and Bridge can shoot with a stick and a trot line and could still win


----------



## underdog145

I myself have never been able to shoot a thumb release anywhere. Haha. I have been shooting the same release for almost 3 years now so i know all the tricks it has. When im shooting in the wind, i usually know right when its going to go off, even without the click(it actually drives me INSANE) and i can just sit there on the edge of it until it settles or the wind dies down and just takes one little flex of the good ol' back muscles and there she goes.


----------



## Aaron Groce

underdog145 said:


> I myself have never been able to shoot a thumb release anywhere. Haha. I have been shooting the same release for almost 3 years now so i know all the tricks it has. When im shooting in the wind, i usually know right when its going to go off, even without the click(it actually drives me INSANE) and i can just sit there on the edge of it until it settles or the wind dies down and just takes one little flex of the good ol' back muscles and there she goes.


thats just cause your good


----------



## N7709K

What he said


----------



## hoytarcherygal

i think all of yall could whoop my butt


----------



## N7709K

pulling a late one to get the ae setup with number 2 cams


----------



## N7709K

Get her all setup and shipped off... Should be a stellar rig


----------



## isaacdahl

It stinks not having a bow to shoot. Because of the fourth of July weekend no string makers are open so by the time they get em made and I get to the shop it'll be next weekend already.

Yeah I was out hunting the other night (crop damage permits) and I had a deer come within 30yds of me so I brought my shotgun up to my shoulder and pulled the trigger only to hear a click; it miss fired:doh:. I was bummed for a while but when when we went and got the trail camera the next day, there was a couple deer that had come back that night, so it must not of scared them to bad.


----------



## N7709K

Been there done that, I have it good now tho. Keys to the shop and a press at the house

What did you go with for new strings?


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Been there done that, I have it good now tho. Keys to the shop and a press at the house
> 
> What did you go with for new strings?


I went with H&M. They had really good prices and a lot of people like them _and_ they'll use 8125.


----------



## N7709K

Ok, I've never used them but I have heard good things.


----------



## N7709K

Happy 4th of July to all the archers in this place


----------



## N7709K

First day of work was awesome


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> First day of work was awesome


That's always a good thing. Are you up in AK now? What's your new job?

Last night my dad shot a deer so that means a work delay for me...got to take it to the butchers, yes! My work usually starts at 5:55am but I probably won't get there until 9:00 or so.


----------



## N7709K

Yep, I'm a grease monkey for the summer. Its pretty sweet


----------



## [email protected]

If you love your job, you never go to work- unknown.


----------



## N7709K

I'll try and get some pics up of some of the projects I'm working on


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Yep, I'm a grease monkey for the summer. Its pretty sweet


Awesome, sounds like fun job. It's pretty awesome when kids our age can get good jobs like that. My friend's (he's 17) is a diesel mechanic and enjoys it as well. I'm not to good when it comes to fixing engines as I don't know much about that stuff but I've always wanted to learn. I'm good at fixing stuff, just not engines, lol. All I know how to do is change the oil...

Yeah, let's see some pics of your projects.


----------



## N7709K

I got some up on face book and I'll get more up tomorrow..I spent most of today in a 2'wx3'hx5'l hole... One boat doing wiring one puttin together an engine


----------



## Ignition kid

I am planning on going to mechanic school when I graduate and either be a diesel tech or just a regular mechanic and then eventually have a full out archery shop while still being a diesel tech.

wish I had some work right now, I went to work with my dad yesterday and made $50 and next week I am going to be washing about 8 trucks for a friends of my dad's who has a roofing business.

what's odd is that I like to detail vehicles, I enjoy hand waxing a truck after washing it and then shining the tires and everything to make it really shine.
I've waxed a dump truck, my mom's car, my dad's truck twice, a boat (got $200 for soing it since it was a pain to do), my grandfather's 1948 ford sedan and 1948 chevy sedan delivery and a few other vehicles as well.


----------



## N7709K

That's gonna be a tough task Clint, trying to run a shop and be a mechanic, doable but tough


----------



## isaacdahl

This is kind of a stupid question, but I run across this every time I'm browsing the las website and I can never figure this one out.
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_77&products_id=963

I notice cx makes something similar in price for their nanos but who in their right mind is going to spend $400 on protours then spend $225 on points when they can get stainless steel points for their pt for only $30?

What's so great about tungsten?


----------



## N7709K

Tungsten has better spec, but the big thing is that for a recurve shooter it draws smoother through the clicker. Tungsten is also harder so it stands up better to abuse from right groups.

I wouldn't get them because I doubt I could tell the diff between a ss tip and one of those. For my acg's I'm just running a 120gr ss breakoff... When all the comp guys get back from so cal they can give you a better answer


----------



## underdog145

The people who can tell the difference of the tungsten are the guys that get them for free. Haha. The main reason that they came out with them is because the inner diameter of the protours is so small, people were havin trouble with the stainless steel bending right where the tip goes in due to the weakness of ss. I wouldnt say that they are a total waste of money. You would get to use them forever.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yeah, I guess they make sense especially if you shoot x10's a lot.


----------



## N7709K

Can you tell the diff Bridger?


----------



## Sighting In

My coach went to the World Championships in 2007 and Beijing for the Paralympics (he's shooing the Para-World Champs right now in Italy). When he first made the team they gave him some Protours for free, but he had to buy the tungsten points himself. They are a more dense material, and thus smaller. Does that make a huge difference? I don't think so. But, apparently in Europe and Asia especially, the FITA targets are incredibly hard. Bounce outs are not uncommon for the adult compound shooters. As such, the tungsten is an advantage because they would better stand up to the tough mats. But unless you plan to travel the world with your arrows, I would save yourself 200 bucks and get the steel.


----------



## isaacdahl

Where do you guys anchor when using a hinge/ thumb release? I've been anchoring using the space between my first and second finger knuckles, locked in the corner of my jaw. I haven't had the chance to shoot many long distance shots (50+ yards) yet this year, but I'm afraid my anchor point may be to high for long distance shots. Should I get used to using my second and third finger nuckles instead to lower my anchor point?


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> Where do you guys anchor when using a hinge/ thumb release? I've been anchoring using the space between my first and second finger knuckles, locked in the corner of my jaw. I haven't had the chance to shoot many long distance shots (50+ yards) yet this year, but I'm afraid my anchor point may be to high for long distance shots. Should I get used to using my second and third finger nuckles instead to lower my anchor point?


I'm sure you will be fine.Highly doubt that you will have to change anchors to fit in more yardage. Just shoot whats most comfortable.


----------



## N7709K

For sure don't drop it a knuckle. If you have issues at distance its peep height not anchor. You need your anchor to me comfortable and repeatable, that's it. I think I put some pics up on here of me shooting 90yds with the ve+. I'm shooting my bt gold so you could look at those. If not I got a ton up on facebook.


Yesterday was killer at work, got there at 8:30 got home at like 1am. Long day, last 5-6hrs spent in a 125+ degree humid engine room working on a turbo


----------



## 3Three

x2 on what jacob said. If you are planning on shooting long distances like 90 meters and what not, set your peep about an 1/8 inch lower than what you have it set at for indoors and use that as a starting point. Then, go out and find out about what your average distance is going to be. If your going to be shooting lots of field and hunter rounds, i would set it anywhere between 48-54 yards. For FITA shoots, depending on your class, set it around 60 meters. That way, the majority of your shots you will be more than comfortable in your anchor. Yes, you will be pretty tight into your anchor on extremely short shots and you will feel like you are floating on the long ones, but it is just something that everyone deals with. I know some people even make a faster sight tape for their short shots so they can anchor the same and look thru the top of the peep and then use a slower tape for long distances for when they look thru the bottom of their peep. Its all things you can play with. Its something everyone deals with outdoors.


----------



## underdog145

sorry about that last post. that was me.  my dad left his account up and i wasnt payin any attention.


----------



## N7709K

That explains it, didnt think your dad knew me bridge


----------



## N7709K

sorry they've been a little bit of a time coming... i've been busy at work and have been away from a comp for a good while. 

the pic of me where i look terrible was after an emergency repair to a turbo, got home at 1am from a 16hr day+... the one with a busted up knuckle is why you gotta watch out for a grinder, that was through a pair of gloves too, so accidents happen and you have to be careful


----------



## isaacdahl

Ouch...good thing you had a glove on!


----------



## N7709K

Yeah, it was... Got an early day tomorrow at work, gonna be long too


----------



## N7709K

Well I still got it, haven't shot for 10days ish... 291 fita or 299 21x


----------



## N7709K

Kinda dead here, others gotta throw up some pics and blow the dust off


----------



## isaacdahl

I'll try to get some pics of my Sentinel once I get it set up...still waiting on the new string


----------



## isaacdahl

Can't get rid of my Lightspeeds, so I guess I'll just refletch them with regular blazers and put 125gr. broadheads on them and use em for hunting. They should weigh 390gr. with the extra 25gr. They'll still be way over spined so I might have to add some more weight to the front if I can't get them to broadhead tune.

Probably time for me to get my hunting arrows ready anyways. I usually have to rush the week before season trying to get all my stuff ready. My new string better get here soon so I don't have to miss another 3D shoot. I've only been to two this year because of my rc problem, waiting for stuff to arrive in the mail, vacations, etc.


----------



## Sighting In

3Three said:


> x2 on what jacob said. If you are planning on shooting long distances like 90 meters and what not, set your peep about an 1/8 inch lower than what you have it set at for indoors and use that as a starting point. Then, go out and find out about what your average distance is going to be. If your going to be shooting lots of field and hunter rounds, i would set it anywhere between 48-54 yards. For FITA shoots, depending on your class, set it around 60 meters. That way, the majority of your shots you will be more than comfortable in your anchor. Yes, you will be pretty tight into your anchor on extremely short shots and you will feel like you are floating on the long ones, but it is just something that everyone deals with. I know some people even make a faster sight tape for their short shots so they can anchor the same and look thru the top of the peep and then use a slower tape for long distances for when they look thru the bottom of their peep. Its all things you can play with. Its something everyone deals with outdoors.


I've heard that the English tend to move their peep to shoot short distances. I've played with that a little myself. I found that for the most part I can leave it set for 50 perfectly, and the rest aren't too bad on my Contender. However, my Sentinel had a steeper string angle, and I had to move it quite a bit up to feel comfortable at 20.


----------



## N7709K

my vantage is such a low angle its more or less on from 20-90.. but again i anchor pretty low

here is from today, she sure looks pretty but not so good on the score end. moved the sight a little at the half bam, there were the x's


----------



## Aaron Groce

thats cause your good....


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> my vantage is such a low angle its more or less on from 20-90.. but again i anchor pretty low
> 
> here is from today, she sure looks pretty but not so good on the score end. moved the sight a little at the half bam, there were the x's


80% of your shots are to the right. Move your sight a tad and get that fixed


----------



## N7709K

Your funny Aaron!

Thanks, already moved it a bit


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## underdog145

Aaron Groce said:


> thats cause your good....


YOU'RE STEALIN MY LINE!!!!! haha. :wink:


----------



## N7709K

Your funny bridge


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## underdog145

Who's all dealin with the heat this week? Been over 90 for the high the past 7 or 8 days.


----------



## isaacdahl

Yep, same here. 90-100 with lots of humidity. To hot to shoot my bow (if I had it set up that is, lol), to hot run, to hot to do anything really. At least I didn't have to work this week...the factory I work in is usually hotter (and stuffier) inside than it is outside. Yeah, so I was kinda lucky this weak; I got to sit in the air condition all day

I did find out that I may get the job that I've been hoping for after all. I applied for a job at the local butchers and he didn't need me this summer, but he said he might use me this fall. So I guess we'll see what happens.


----------



## need-a-bow

Something similar happened to me the other day. I was cutting with a new disc and as I finished it flew apart(have no clue why) amd a piece ripped into my jeans and scared me bu my pants protecked me. Good thing I didnt listen to my mom to wear shorts to work 


N7709K said:


> sorry they've been a little bit of a time coming... i've been busy at work and have been away from a comp for a good while.
> 
> the pic of me where i look terrible was after an emergency repair to a turbo, got home at 1am from a 16hr day+... the one with a busted up knuckle is why you gotta watch out for a grinder, that was through a pair of gloves too, so accidents happen and you have to be careful


----------



## underdog145

Good news.  Just got my hands on the new TRU BALL Inside Out release today. Havent had too much time to shoot it yet but plan on going out and shootin some arrows in a few. Ill be sure to come back ready to tell you all what i think.


----------



## Rory/MO

Well my reflective wraps came in the mail today.. Gonna head to the shop on Sunday and drop the wraps and arrows off to get fletched and cut.


----------



## hoytarcherygal

was 95-97 here in MI yesterday and humid and us michiganders dont get that heat a lot lol...South Dakota is gonna suck to shoot in next week.. gonna be a hot one


underdog145 said:


> Who's all dealin with the heat this week? Been over 90 for the high the past 7 or 8 days.


----------



## N7709K

Not fair, not fair bridge, not fair

It's like 55-60here... Not too bad, shooting in the heat is kinda nice as a training tool because it shows you where you fatigue at since it happens faster


----------



## underdog145

All i can say is that is pretty awesome.  haha. Shoots just like the HT, just less left and right misses due to the rotating head. But if there were one thing that i think could be better it would have to be that i wish there were just one more spot for the thumb peg so i could get it back just a little farther.


----------



## skulzhead

michigan has been crazy the ac has been cranked at my house


hoytarcherygal said:


> was 95-97 here in MI yesterday and humid and us michiganders dont get that heat a lot lol...South Dakota is gonna suck to shoot in next week.. gonna be a hot one


----------



## stevensm

Down here in Texas it has been 95-100 everyday, but us texans are use to it.


----------



## N7709K

Finally settled in to typical weather here... Rain, steady rain


----------



## crbanta

stevensm said:


> Down here in Texas it has been 95-100 everyday, but us texans are use to it.


 yea buit in texas its more of a dry heat for us in illinois its 95- 100 with 93% humidity so the index is like 120


----------



## skulzhead

is anybody shooting competitions this week


----------



## hoytarcherygal

heading to south dakota for US Target Nationals this week 


skulzhead said:


> is anybody shooting competitions this week


----------



## hoytarcherygal

where in MI r u ?


skulzhead said:


> michigan has been crazy the ac has been cranked at my house


----------



## N7709K

Bridge, you got a tap and die? Just put a new one in


----------



## isaacdahl

Need some help on micro adjusting my drawlength. It's somewhere between 27" and 27.5" so should I start at 27 and adjust up or start at 27.5 and adjust down? 27" feels to cramped while 27.5" feels a lot better, yet bt is hard to get consistent and I get some wrist slap.

I'm thinkin I should start from 27.5 and adjust down but I thought I'd ask first.


----------



## N7709K

is this with mods? how much do you think you need to go? how does the sight picture look now, slow sweeping hold pattern or quick jerky hold? 

easiest way would be post up pics,


----------



## outdoorkid1

You could lengthen or shorten your d-loop


----------



## N7709K

Playing with d-loop will just change where the release sits on your face. The string comes back the same


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> Playing with d-loop will just change where the release sits on your face. The string comes back the same


Ya, the string will not move, but it will put you in the right place for your DL by shortening the d-loop, it will cause you to not come back as far and if you were to lengthen it you would come back farther but the string would still come back to a certian position.


----------



## N7709K

All it does is change where the release sits on your face and the feel. You can change how dl feels by moving a peep too. Too short of a d-loop causes torque and nock pinch, too long causes the release and string to bend to the face too much.

Isaac what does your hold pattern look like at both 27" and 27.5"?


----------



## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> *All it does is change where the release sits on your face and the feel*. You can change how dl feels by moving a peep too. Too short of a d-loop causes torque and nock pinch, too long causes the release and string to bend to the face too much.
> 
> Isaac what does your hold pattern look like at both 27" and 27.5"?


But changing the draw length also changes the way it sits on your face and the feel. The problems that you listed are correct, but it would still get you to anchor in the right position on your face if you just changed the d-loop.

Question: How long do you have your d-loops? Mine is 5/8" long. Is there a certain length you should have your D-loop?


----------



## N7709K

But changin d-loop doesnt change felt dl, just where the release hits your face.

I got no idea how long mine is, I run mine a little long so I don't get torque on them from my release, but I have shot the same scores with a short and a long. My ae, burner, and ve+, are all 29" dl... The ae runs long, the burner feels long because of string angle but is fine, and the ve+ is spot on perfect. When you get the dl pretty close you fine tune hold with a twist in or out until the hold pattern becomes very very stable


----------



## isaacdahl

I guess I'm not sure about the sight picture. I'll have to check that today. As for how much I think I'll need to adjust it...probably no more than 1/4" down and probably more like 1/8"-3/16".

I'll check my sight picture tonight and see what that looks like.


----------



## skulzhead

lowell


hoytarcherygal said:


> where in MI r u ?


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

here's how i see this whole D-loop thing, changing D-loop length will make the DL feel shorter or longer, but theoretically, it isn't. like when i had my old bow, and i couldn't adjust the DL any longer, i put a longer loop on, so i wouldn't be pulling my head into the string, i normally shoot with the string a little scrunched into my nose, but i couldn't with my old bow, i shot barely touching the string, so, in conclusion, it doesn't change DL, just feeling.


----------



## N7709K

if the sight picture is short, jerky, quick movements.. teh dl is short. if it is slow sweepign ones then it is long... doesn't say how much either way, but it gives a starting point, per se


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## 12-RING SHOOTER

i was stating about how i lengthened my loop on my old bow for a little longer feel temporarily til i got a new bow.


----------



## isaacdahl

Here's a link to some more pics of the inside out that I found on here...
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1536399

Man that thing is hot! I must say that I'm very jealous of you Bridge. My half birthday's in a month...if anyone wanted to now...


----------



## isaacdahl

Got an awesome story guys...My dad was out hunting tonight (I was gone so I was unable to go out) and about 1hr before dark he saw 4 deer run past him at full speed, like the do when their scared. At first he thought they must of winded him or something so he just blew it off and continued hunting. About a half hour later he got up to leave and about 100yd away in an alfalfa field that was adjacent to the corn he was hunting in, he saw something tan, low to the ground, long, black tip on it's tail, and walked like a cat. He watched it for a while as it circled around it self (kind of like dog or cat will do) and then it ran his way into the corn.

That's all he saw of it but he said he had his gun ready as he walked back to the car, lol. As far as he could tell it was a mountain lion as it was to big for a fox or a bobcat and the way it walked resembled a cat. NW Ohio (or any of OH that I know of) doesn't consider the mt. lions as a recognized species so they're almost non existent around here. We do remember hearing that the DNR released a couple of them a few years ago because of the high deer numbers but you never hear/heared anything about that. If I remember correctly, that was about 5 years ago. There have been other spottings of them in recent years including a spotting by some of our friends.

Kind of cool yet creepy at the same time, considering that I hunt there all the time, lol.


----------



## isaacdahl

I have a question for anyone who uses a dot or ring on their 3D scope setup. Do you like it better than an up pin and how do you make sure you can see it in different lighting situations? Also, what size would one use for a 4x lens? I don't like shooting pins because they seem to get in the way...once I'm settled in and concentrating on the spot, the pin floats in front of my eye and distracts me. I've been considering trying a ring, but I'm not sure whether or not this is a good idea for a 3D setup.

What do you guys think?


----------



## N7709K

I run a truespot for everything... So I wouldn't know.

For a 4x I'd try a larger circle and a small dot. You shoot a clarifier?


----------



## isaacdahl

No, I'm not using a clarifier.

Anyone else got anything to add?


----------



## N7709K

I'd try an orange dot/ring kit on a 4x. Run an aperture so you must see the housing in the peep. Adam shoots a dot/ring and Aaron shoots a dot... Both have shot 3d


----------



## underdog145

I shot the new release for one day while i was out there and i had to make the decision to go back to my old BT Gold Brass. I just cant seem to get away from that release. The Inside-Out is an amazing release and i wish i could shoot it, but looks like youll all still be seein me with that ugly old chunck of brass in my hands.


----------



## N7709K

Wanna part with tour I/o? Lol

I'm shooting a reg bt gold that I swapped some parts on, it pounds em


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> I'd try an orange dot/ring kit on a 4x. Run an aperture so you must see the housing in the peep. Adam shoots a dot/ring and Aaron shoots a dot... Both have shot 3d


Ok, I'll give that a try. But I am curious as to why so many people shoot dots though? I like the idea of a ring that way I can see what I'm aiming at, but wouldn't a dot just get in the way even more than a pin? What are the advantages of using a dot...is it just for the reason that it doesn't show as much movement? Not arguing our anything, just curious. I did notice that Jesse uses a dot for field.


----------



## underdog145

I know that it can also depend on what type of person you are too. Some people like to see what they are looking at. I would say that a good majority of Type A people are probably shooting rings because they can say to themselves in their unconscious mind, "That is what i am going to hit, so i'll burn a hole into it." I myself shoot a dot because I am more of a Type B personality so my mind says, "If i can just cover up where i want to hit, it should end up behind the dot." It all just depends on what you like. Its all about experimenting. I have said it many times before and i have heard it said many times by many different people, every person has their own unique, individual recipe that works best for them. And you will never be able to find out what yours is until you try everything you possibly can. But when you do find something that works, youll know it.


----------



## N7709K

What bridge said, dots are nice because you set it and just let it float... But you have to trust your zero


----------



## isaacdahl

Thanks for the help guys. I took the pin out of my scope today and put a 1/4" ring the lens. I'm not yet sure if I like it our not...between tons of blank bailing and getting my new bow set up, I haven't got to shoot much this summer so I'm kinda rusty.


----------



## N7709K

Dots take a little getting used to


----------



## N7709K

lets blow the dust off and bring this back to life


----------



## FITAfanatic

Wow. i found this forum a little to late ahahah dang 19 pages!


----------



## isaacdahl

Well, I switched over to my hunting setup this weak. I have a busy September up until hunting season (I believe it starts somewhere around the 24th.). Just about got the broadheads dialed in and besides that a little messin around with stabs I should be ready to go. Got a treestand up today...one or so to go plus a ground blind or two.

Yep, I'll be leaving the 10th for Oregon to visit the grandparents...they're a lot of fun...they're still young enough to hike/camp so hopefully will get to do a little of that. My grandpa has a big metal fab shop at his house so I suspect I'll be hangin out there a lot. I'm also pumped for the plane ride out there...I ordered some new skullcandy's yesterday so I'm excited to try those out on the plane...nothing better than chillin on the plane with some good music and peanuts, lol.


----------



## bow hunter11

i still got to hang two stands after football


----------



## N7709K

Big planes and jets are all fine and dandy but nothin beats a little two seat fabric plane.. Grew up in those, and they are something you never forget


----------



## hoytarcherygal

Hows AK jake?


N7709K said:


> Big planes and jets are all fine and dandy but nothin beats a little two seat fabric plane.. Grew up in those, and they are something you never forget


----------



## N7709K

It's not too bad, been really busy with work and haven't had time to to much.. Have gone and visited some friends a bit tho


----------



## hoytarcherygal

thats good. its always good to see friends u havent seen in a while. Hows work giong??


N7709K said:


> It's not too bad, been really busy with work and haven't had time to to much.. Have gone and visited some friends a bit tho


----------



## N7709K

Yep... Works good put in a 14hr day yesterday and got another one today... I'm headed back over to see Kim this weekend


----------



## hoytarcherygal

sweet...how she doing?


N7709K said:


> Yep... Works good put in a 14hr day yesterday and got another one today... I'm headed back over to see Kim this weekend


----------



## N7709K

she's doing ok... lots going on this summer 

i might be taking a boat trip round the horn to do some last minute work on a boat... but i'm trying to see if i can get out of it.


----------



## isaacdahl

OK, so I went to the "pro" shop today to have the timing checked out on my Sentinel but was told "it's not possible for binary cams to go out of time"....Wwwhhhhatttt? They also told me that I didn't have my cat whiskers tide on correctly and that basically they were doing no good??? I just tie the on but they said they HAVE to be between the string to do any good...not just tied to the outside? Everyone I now just serves them on like I do so this was kind of a first for me. 

So what the heck? Am I stupid or is it true that binary cams can't go out of time? That completely contradicts everything I've ever heard about binaries. Also, one of the guys behind the counter went to draw my bow and yanked it back so hard the string slipped past the stop and locked the cams in place. I'm sure the guy felt bad enough, but still I was kinda taken back by how that's even possible...

Sorry for the rant, I just a little ticked off right now.


----------



## N7709K

I've always understood binaries to always be in time to eachother but not the bow


----------



## Sighting In

I wouldn't go back there, if you have any other shops in the area (and as I understand, Ohio is pretty well off with shops). 

He's straight up wrong, binary cams can go out of time. The only difference is, it doesn't really matter that much. 

The cams _should_ be in synch with each other. Eg. both should end up in the same position when fully drawn back. This pretty much makes it faster, smooths out the draw a bit, and theoretically makes it shoot better. The trick with binary cams is that they don't really_ have_ to be in time to shoot awesome. Because they are slaved to each other, they will always turn an equal amount every time. This does not mean that they will end up in the same spot, just that they will stop at the same time. Or in other words, slaving them together keeps them rotating together, but not timed. So a binary cam bow can be out of time, with the cams not in the same position, but they will still draw and shoot together. 

Let me put it this way: When I was shooting my Sentinel this winter for Indoor, I shot some of the best indoor scores of my life with it and I didn't even realize that the cams were not timed until I got my Contender. So basically, they don't actually need to be timed. But that doesn't mean it doesn't help, and it really doesn't mean that they CAN'T be timed. 

Also, some of the newer Bowtechs with 2 draw stops make it more important for it to be timed. Because bows like the Sentinel only have one draw stop, it doesn't matter that the top cam is different from the bottom because it's going to hit the one stop and be done either way. But when there are two stops, they both need to hit at the same time, so they need to be timed identically. 

I hope this helped/made sense. lol


----------



## isaacdahl

I've always been confused about that anyways, so idk. Sighting In, yeah that kinda made sense but kinda not, lol. Thanks for trying to explain it for me though.

The reason I figured something might not be right was because it doesn't seem any quieter or dead-in-hand then my 101st was. It seems to have quite a bit of vibe and also has a buzzing noise. In all honesty, the Invasions that I've shot were better. I was expecting a vibe free, quiet bow(you know, all the center pivot hype), but this thing doesn't seem to be that. I could understand a quick snapping noise, but it seems to be more of a long held out buzz.

Yeah, they pretty much told me I was hearing things and that there was nothing wrong with it, but I still think there has to me more to it than that. Unfortunately, this is the closest shop (45mins away) and rest of them are quite a bit farther. 

What do ya guys think?


----------



## outdoorkid1

isaacdahl said:


> I've always been confused about that anyways, so idk. Sighting In, yeah that kinda made sense but kinda not, lol. Thanks for trying to explain it for me though.
> 
> The reason I figured something might not be right was because it doesn't seem any quieter or dead-in-hand then my 101st was. It seems to have quite a bit of vibe and also has a buzzing noise. In all honesty, the Invasions that I've shot were better. I was expecting a vibe free, quiet bow(you know, all the center pivot hype), but this thing doesn't seem to be that. I could understand a quick snapping noise, but it seems to be more of a long held out buzz.
> 
> Yeah, they pretty much told me I was hearing things and that there was nothing wrong with it, but I still think there has to me more to it than that. Unfortunately, this is the closest shop (45mins away) and rest of them are quite a bit farther.
> 
> What do ya guys think?


Could be many things.
I think something is loose. The center pivot bows are very dead in the hand and quiet. If yours is loud and isn't as dead in the hand as it should be than something is loose.


----------



## N7709K

there should be timing marks on the cams that line up wih cable or limbs.. check those. if those are good then the cams are timed according to manu. spec. they should be slaved together sine they are binaries so that helps a little but the rotation still matters since they need to rotate at the right times and the right amount.

what arrows are you shooting?


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> there should be timing marks on the cams that line up wih cable or limbs.. check those. if those are good then the cams are timed according to manu. spec. they should be slaved together sine they are binaries so that helps a little but the rotation still matters since they need to rotate at the right times and the right amount.
> 
> what arrows are you shooting?


Good idea, I guess I kinda forgot about those and haven't checked them since I put my new string on.

I'm shooting my Lightspeed 340s with 135gr. up front and with regular blazers (400grs. exactly). Yeah, I know there still really stiff but I couldn't get rid of them for the life of me so I redid them for hunting. I guess idk? Could an overly stiff spine make it sound loud (less efficient maybe?). They broadhead tune fine.


----------



## N7709K

I would try shooting like a 500gr arrow and see if any of te noise goes away


----------



## Sighting In

The bow should not be buzzing. Believe me, it shouldn't be making any noises. Do yourself a favor and double check that all the screws are locked down tight. And i mean everything: the sight, rest, cams, limb tips, everything. If everything is tight and good, then the timing might have something to do with it. If they are way off, that could cause some problems, but I couldn't say how much. I don't know about a stiff arrow, but I know an overly light arrow makes the bow a bit louder, but it doesn't look like your arrow is that light. The only other thing I can think of would be if you are shooting a drop away. Make sure that isn't slapping against the riser and causing the noise. 

Good luck.


----------



## hoytarcherygal

thats good. and haha good luck lol 


N7709K said:


> she's doing ok... lots going on this summer
> 
> i might be taking a boat trip round the horn to do some last minute work on a boat... but i'm trying to see if i can get out of it.


----------



## N7709K

Isaac, do you have a flex guard on your bow? I know on some of the bows with them they had a little buzz issue but Adam is 100% right... He knows these much more than I do


----------



## isaacdahl

Sorry, guys I haven't been on yet this weekend and I didn't realize there were so many knew post.

Yep, Jacob you found the problem again! I don't know why I never checked after I put my new string on, but the timing marks are off by quite a bit. Don't know why the people at the shop didn't ever check that. They just crossed that off the list right away. I've never liked the shop, but they're the only Bowtech dealer in my area. Sighting In, yeah, that's another good point. I've been meaning to put down a rubber pad on the shelf which I'm sure will help quiet my Ripcord down. I've been really busy this last month and haven't really been able to do much other than a few shots a night.

Screw the losers at that shop...they told me it was quiet enough, but I still new (from before I put my new string on) that something wasn't right. Thanks again guys, I'll let you now how she feels once I get some of these problems fixed.


----------



## isaacdahl

Jacob,
I remember one time we were talking about stab setups and I mentioned that my bow drops off the spot with hardly any stab weight and you said it might be a form issue? I know my rotator cuffs aren't as strong as they could be but it still seems that I'd be able to support more weight than I'm shooting currently. I'm pretty much talkin bare bow is about what's working best for me right now. I used to shoot with a lot of weight but can't seem to any longer. Idk if my left rc is just weak from my injury this summer or if it has to do with form?

So what usually causes a drop off (form wise)? I don't see how my rc could be that weak as I do quite a bit of weight lifting that requires decent strength in my shoulders?


----------



## N7709K

I'll give a full reply later when I'm on my comp... But it has to do with shoulder height, and and position


----------



## N7709K

finally got some time to get on a comp... i fly out tomorrow so i had to pack, say goodbye for the rest of the year to the people i worked with.. etc

when your pin drops out the middle with just a main, it is more than likely one of two things. 1. it is that they balance is off and you need a back bar to counter act the leverage of the main. they amount of drop and rate of drop will change depending on the weght at the end of the main bar. easy fix, but it may not solve the problem. its more of a bandaid if form isn't solid. 2. is that the shoulders are not level and than your back shoulder is high, causing a downward angle to your shoulders going into the bow. this will cause you to fight the bow and you will drop out the bottom all the time. if your front shoulder is too high it does the same thing, but you will feel that much more easily than if your back shoulder is high. 

your shoulder may be high from dl being a touch short, form, shootign style, etc.. and it could be that you can't fix it and have to run less weight on the main and more on a longer back. the more weight that you can have on the end of the main, the steadier the sight picture will be and the less it will move in the wind, but when it does start moving it takes much more to stop the movement. i prefer to run 9oz outdoor and 8 indoor.. that is what works for me.

what i would do to see if you have lots of low misses from either cause i would shoot two rounds of 5spot. sight in so that a perfect shot is 100% i/o and then chart your patterns. you will be able to see after 12 shots the average pattern of the arrows, might be a tight pattern might be loose.... this is also a good way to tell if timing is off by just a little, but thats for another day


----------



## underdog145

One more thing it may be is that you are possibly peeking to try and see your arrow hit. I know I have this problem every once in awhile. I get into a groove and start shooting good and I get a little antsy and try to "watch" the arrow hit. Just be sure to be pulling through your shot and fully finishing your follow thru.


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, Thanks guys. I think my problem is having my right shoulder to high. I'll work on some of these things this weak and see what happens.


----------



## isaacdahl

Hmm, today I was out shooting and when I was drawing back I didn't have a good grip on my release and bam, my bow goes off and the release hits me square in the face. Luckily my arrow hit the target and nothing was hurt to bad besides my good looks, lol. Anyways upon inspection of my bow the downward cable jumped off the roller guard...the thing is you can't even get the cable off the roller guard without pressing it a stringing the cable through the guard. There is small space where it might be able to jump out if it were forced, but I sure can't get it back in. I leave for Oregon tomorrow so I guess I'll have to wait to get it fixed.

Any ideas how it would jump out like that?


----------



## N7709K

Fix it first... If the cable is out of the track it will change the amount of tension on it and that can affect poi, speed, tune, etc...

Only thing I can think of is torque when it just went and you weren't ready... It could have jumped with that, but it's not too terribly likely.


----------



## N7709K

hows everyone building their 23's? i got a couple doz coming that i need to set up for indoor

Also whats everyone running for fletchin on 27's?


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Fix it first... If the cable is out of the track it will change the amount of tension on it and that can affect poi, speed, tune, etc...
> 
> Only thing I can think of is torque when it just went and you weren't ready... It could have jumped with that, but it's not too terribly likely.


Yeah, I really wish I could have gotten it fixed but it all the shops were closed so I really had no chose...ahh, I need to brake down and just build a press.


----------



## N7709K

bowtech cp's if i remember right dont need a press


----------



## Sighting In

N7709K said:


> bowtech cp's if i remember right dont need a press


Technically you don't need one, but it's a pain in the butt if you don't have one. You back out the limb bolts pretty much all the way and it relaxes the limbs enough to work on them. So, you can do it, but it takes a long time, and you have to make sure they go back in the same place you had it. Much easier with a press.


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## N7709K

no doubt, just since he kinda has an "emergency" i was throwing it out there

thanks adam for clearing that up


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## isaacdahl

Yeah, thanks for the idea Jake, but like Adam said, it's a pain in the butt. The time I've done it there's only about 2 extra threads to play with...either the limbs are off or you don't have enough room to get the string/cables off.

Oh well, it's to late anyways; I don't have my bow with me so it'll have to wait. I appreciate you tryin to help though.

Tomorrow my granpa's taking my dad and me to the Bowtech plant (it's only a couple of miles from where I'm at). That should be fun; I'm hoping they'll have a Specialist they'll let me try out.


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## N7709K

If you could relax the tension you probably could just pull the e-clip and axle on the roller guard and put the cable back in.... 

That should be fun for ya, I've seen footage of their factory and it was pretty cool


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> If you could relax the tension you probably could just pull the e-clip and axle on the roller guard and put the cable back in....
> 
> That should be fun for ya, I've seen footage of their factory and it was pretty cool


Yeah, that's probably what I'll do. Hopefully by pulling the e-clip the roller should just slide off without taking out the axle.

I'm hoping they'll give tours of the plant but I'm not sure if they will. If not it should still be fun to check out their shop...my granpa said it's huge.


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## N7709K

you'll have to pull the e clip on the axle for teh roller.. then pull teh roll pin(axle) and the two rollers. put the cable back and re assamble


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> you'll have to pull the e clip on the axle for teh roller.. then pull teh roll pin(axle) and the two rollers. put the cable back and re assamble


Oh ok, I see what you're saying.

Unfortunately they don't give tours anymore at the Bowtech plant but they do have a really nice shop. While I was there they let me compare an Amortech HD and a Hoggit Hunter, and by far the Amortech wins (at least _I_ think so). Crazy thing is, the Hoggit's more expensive. The thing I didn't like about the Hoggit was all the set screws...for me atleast allen screws = disaster in the long run. My current hunting sight is useless now because some of the allen heads are stripped from so much use. I also don't like how SH pins move on a radius...don't really like the idea of having to square em up when I'm done sighting in. Also, the clicks on the AT are amazing! It completely makes my Titan look like junk.

I decided that I currently don't have enough money to finish my open class setup so for now I'm just gonna trade my Sword Titan for a good hunter class/hunting sight...hopefully an Armortech. Yeah, I'm disappointed about that too, but the parents weren't to happy with all the money I was starting to invest...you know "save for college"...blah


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## N7709K

thats why i don't shoot 'hogg's.. i didn't like the radius pin adjustment. other than that they are pretty sweet sights.

take a look at the pro, its a little more, but with the dovetail you wouldn't lose zero between a target sight and a hunting sight


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## N7709K

Well I broke out the 27's today and I don't know why I put them away. One hole groups will play quite well, especially if I move my sight, right Aaron


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## isaacdahl

Spott Hogg is around Eugene somewheres too. Maybe if we have time I can make it out there.

I lost some parts for my Titan, and upon sending an email to Sword, they said to just drop by there facilities and they'll fix it for free! It kind of funny actually; I new that Sword sights and Treelimb quivers were started in my area but I never new where exactly their facilities were. Come to find out, a building I drive by all the time is the one of there main building (you know, one of those places you see all the time but you don't even know what they do there, lol.). Sword has some awesome customer service!


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## N7709K

thats cool, real cool

its always nice when companies back up their products with good timely customer service.


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## hoytarcherygal

A bit off the current discussion but, shot my first tournament with the compound this past weekend and wow, so much different than my recurve. So different but so cool....


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## isaacdahl

hoytarcherygal said:


> A bit off the current discussion but, shot my first tournament with the compound this past weekend and wow, so much different than my recurve. So different but so cool....


That's cool. So do you like compound or recurve better? lol


----------



## War_Valley_Boy

hoytarcherygal said:


> A bit off the current discussion but, shot my first tournament with the compound this past weekend and wow, so much different than my recurve. So different but so cool....


 I love shooting recurve but i'm only good up to 30 yards with it and have never thought about killing a deer with it


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## N7709K

Had a shoot today, nothin more humbling than shooting paper outdoors in 20-30mph winds


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## hoytarcherygal

Not sure i know i love both but they are so different im not sure you can compare them. Im so glad i did it thoug even if i was a little bit outta my element. Now i gotta decide if i want to shoot recurve or compound indoors


isaacdahl said:


> That's cool. So do you like compound or recurve better? lol


----------



## hoytarcherygal

I love my recurve and watchign those arrows hit a 77 yards best feeling ever


War_Valley_Boy said:


> I love shooting recurve but i'm only good up to 30 yards with it and have never thought about killing a deer with it


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## hoytarcherygal

haha we had about 20mph gusting winds so i know what its like lol but itll make ya a better shooter in the long run


N7709K said:


> Had a shoot today, nothin more humbling than shooting paper outdoors in 20-30mph winds


----------



## isaacdahl

I think I've asked this before, but how do you guys shoot in the wind? I can't get my hinge to go off for nothing and I start to get jumpy and yank really hard with my back muscles trying to get it to go off instead of a smooth pull.

When there's little to no wind I have no problem but I'm pretty much useless in the wind.


----------



## isaacdahl

I know this isn't archery related but I thought I'd share anyways. For some reason "Dahl" looks crooked in the picture but it just looks like that because the base of the mountain sweeps upwards to the left.

I made this belt buckle out in Oregon in my grandpa's shop while I was out there last weak,








The body and the rim is made out of mild steel, while the gold colored metal is just brass. The silver diamond in the center is some silver my grandpa had left over from previous projects. It didn't turn out as well as I had hoped but all in all, I'm happy with it.


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## N7709K

how i shoot in the wind depends on several factors. 

the first thing i do tho is tune my stabilizers for the best hold at 60yds. this helps a ton in getting the sight to sit steady so i will "let" the shot happen. next i carry three or four releases, 3 hinges all set a little diff and all diff releases. My bt gold for when its not too gusty, the tru tension three for the little gusts and the tru tension 4 for the constant wind. on top of this for the really bad days i'll have one of my absolutes with and will shoot that.

this past shoot i was at i took only my bt gold and absolute. I never touched the absolute because i was fresh and shooting strong shots. If i wasn't shooting strong shots, i would have broken out the trigger


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## Aaron Groce

you just wait between gusts.. and let it go off... dont try to muscel(sp) it off. just run ya same shot just make it a little quicker


----------



## isaacdahl

Cool, thanks guys. I'm kinda getting ahead of myself with that question anyways. I've got way to much to worry about before I get any farther anyways. First my bt is terrible for not shooting much in the last couple months and second rest got messed up tonight, so now I'm gonna have to retune everything before Saturday. Can't wait till it's finally tuned good and I can just forget it and start working on shooting.


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## archerykid13

I do a mix of what Aaron and Jacob do. I take my Absolute and then my Hot Tension. But I shoot in between wind gusts unless its super bad or I'm shooting super crappy then Ill get out the Absolute.


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## N7709K

I'll shoot between gusts, but by gusts I mean the bad ones... I'll shoot in fluctuating straight-line winds... But bad gusts I let down and wait


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## Aaron Groce

you just have to have a good hold and patern in the wind .. if you have that everything else will come easy


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## N7709K

Did you found your hold pattern any diff with the 6x over a 4x Aaron?


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## Aaron Groce

what my prob was that i held do still i would shove the dot out of the X. so when i switched to the 6x it gave it more movement but just enought to let me mentally calm down. cause mentally in my sub concious i would be like its int there let get this shot off. but when i magnify the movement a litrtle more every thing just seamed to calm down


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## N7709K

ok, i've always shot a 6x and i'm not going to change.. just wonderign what you found. 

when i shoot my rifle, i keep it set on 2x while hunting.. only time it comes off is to glass or when i'm shooting for fun. I have a smaller target but a much larger sight window for the followup shots if needed


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## N7709K

Let's bring this back to the top...

Well today marks the day that I can start using the classifieds, myself and not worry bout a ban :darkbeer:


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## isaacdahl

Happy 18th Jake!

I still got a little under a year and half to go:sad: Dang rules....


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## N7709K

thanks bud, its been an interesting road here to say the least

don't worry, with age comes responsibility


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## Aaron Groce

N7709K said:


> thanks bud, its been an interesting road here to say the least
> 
> don't worry, *with age comes responsibility*


and it sucks lol


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## N7709K

Lol, but it's not all bad... Goin pro is gonna be fun


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## isaacdahl

Aaron Groce said:


> and it sucks lol


That's kinda what I was thinkin:lol:. I don't have the responsibilities that ya get when your a senior/18yrs old (ready to go to college and constant work to pay for it) but junior years kinda like that for me unfortunately.

So, I assume your going to college to be diesel mechanic or something like that Jake? How about you Aaron?


----------



## isaacdahl

So a question for you hoyt guys... I don't really know much about split limb as the Sentinel is my first bow with split limbs. Since I've gotten it I've had cam lean pretty bad in my top cam. For some reason the spacer between the limb and center pivot part of the riser is thicker on the right top limb compared to the left top limb which seems to explain why my cam leans to the left.

So why the heck is this? There must be a reason?


----------



## N7709K

Does your bow have a yoke on the top?


Nah, I might go tech school for deisel or welding.... might go army for it too. I'll see how work goes this summer and see how much I make, if I make enough to go through the welding program I'll do that up in ak and work after school. If I don't, I'm provably gonna work all year and put away some money for diesel and welding. I'm not sure where I'm gonna go get diesel cert, yet but I'm not gonna stay in Minnesota. If I move back to Alaska I'm not sure or if I stay in the Midwest. There is way too much outside and female influences to say for sure.


----------



## Sighting In

N7709K said:


> Does your bow have a yoke on the top?


Nope. The cables attach directly to the cams. It is a mirror image on the bottom. 

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFB0LvwAjpnew7eVoQD7AodgtI89hGOxPd0qhvAacPN3XsAl1b8Mmg94BI

Sorry, I don't know how to help you. Other than take it into your dealer and see what he/she says.


----------



## Bugs Bunnyy

isaacdahl said:


> I know this isn't archery related but I thought I'd share anyways. For some reason "Dahl" looks crooked in the picture but it just looks like that because the base of the mountain sweeps upwards to the left.
> 
> I made this belt buckle out in Oregon in my grandpa's shop while I was out there last weak,
> View attachment 1169731
> 
> 
> The body and the rim is made out of mild steel, while the gold colored metal is just brass. The silver diamond in the center is some silver my grandpa had left over from previous projects. It didn't turn out as well as I had hoped but all in all, I'm happy with it.


I think it looks really good.


----------



## isaacdahl

Bugs Bunnyy said:


> I think it looks really good.


Thanks very much:smile:

Yep, Adam beat me to it...it's a binary system so, nope there's no yoke.


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## N7709K

spacers are what factory has found to work the best.. but feel free to switch em, we do it on hoyts all the time

got my arrows in today, built up a test batch of 27's with a new fletchin recipe and i found a winner


----------



## archerykid13

Happy late birthday Jacob! Whats your new fletchin recipe haha?


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## N7709K

thanks.. 

um, i haven't shot scores yet but at 10yds they smoke 4" helical gateways


----------



## archerykid13

I shot 5" helicals out of my UE.


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## N7709K

last year i ran 4" gateways and they shot well, but i wanted to try something else(i don't like fletching feathers, especially on bare alu's)... Right now they shoot same hole groups, but i'm getting a weird tail left kick on a virgin spot of target, but they pound the second and following shots

what nocks you guys runnin in your alu's?


----------



## Aaron Groce

for ndoor i like the Bider(sp) nocks...


----------



## N7709K

beiter? i'm runnin micro lite supers/g's and they seem good

what do you like bout them Aaron?


----------



## N7709K

Well I lost a couple new 27's today, target tipped over on them and there they went


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Well I lost a couple new 27's today, target tipped over on them and there they went


Ouch, I've had that happen before. What kind of target where you shootin into?


----------



## Aaron Groce

N7709K said:


> beiter? i'm runnin micro lite supers/g's and they seem good
> 
> what do you like bout them Aaron?


that they are so durrable.... i obly had to buy 2 sets in the last 2 years and the ones i bought the first year are still going strong


----------



## archerykid13

The Beiters do seem like decent nocks Aaron.


----------



## N7709K

Ok, I really like my micro lites... Well I shot bout 250 arrows tonight... Good thing is after 200 arrows I can still punch good scores and not feel tired


----------



## archerykid13

What weight is the VE set at?


----------



## N7709K

57ish,... Not sure the exact

Aaro, did you see Blair stepped down from bstinger


----------



## archerykid13

So whats everyones setups for indoor this year?


----------



## Aaron Groce

yeah i saw that i wonder why??


----------



## N7709K

He didn't really say, I always liked Blair so it sucks to see him go.

No idea what I'm runnin for indoor yet


----------



## archerykid13

What I run for indoors depends on if I can find a bow in time.


----------



## N7709K

i have 3 bows right now that will shoot 300's day in and day out.. i'm just not sure which one i'm attached to the most. Actually i have 4 bows that will, but one is going away in a month


----------



## archerykid13

Which ones going away?


----------



## N7709K

the alphamax.. that one shoots as good as anything else i have


----------



## archerykid13

Wheres it going? Kims?


----------



## N7709K

yeah, i'm waiting for parts to arrive so i can set it up for her


----------



## archerykid13

Nice.


----------



## Sighting In

I think it's all in my sig. Shot an easy 299 the other night. We'll see when I can finally crank out that 300. It's bound to happen soon. lol


----------



## N7709K

How do you like the gtx now that you've shot them for a year Adam?


----------



## Sighting In

I love them. They're really smooth, awesome wall when timed, and comfortable valley. By that I mean that it's really short, but it's not going to rocket off if you creep a tad. And I really like the 65% let off. Part of me wants some spirals to try, but honestly I couldn't be happier with these cams.


----------



## N7709K

i'd like to try them, but your gonna have to pry my spirals out of my cold dead fingers


----------



## Sighting In

N7709K said:


> i'd like to try them, but your gonna have to pry my spirals out of my cold dead fingers


You're more than welcome to fling a few through my setup at Vegas if you don't mind the whole lefty thing.


----------



## underdog145

Be careful adam. You may be buyin more and more bows is you try them spirals out.  haha. I got them because of a miss placed order, and now I think they realized that I actually wanted the spirals.


----------



## N7709K

Lol, I will never go back from spirals. I love them


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> Lol, I will never go back from spirals. I love them


x2.

Jake


----------



## [email protected]

I might might buy a Mission Rally and get into spots. Any advice on setup?


----------



## N7709K

looks like a decent rig, 37 isn't all that long tho. It would be interesting to put one through its paces


----------



## underdog145

finally shot my first 60x game of the year last night after a string of 59s. Who all is heading to the Presleys Midwest Open in December?


----------



## N7709K

Great shootin bridge, I haven't even started practice yet.. No idea when I will either


----------



## N7709K

Well I'm headed down to ga the 18th or the 17th I can't remember. Gonna play with Griv for a couple days and get all set to get whipped this indoor season, lol.

I'm still up in the air for arrows, not sure if I'll run 23's for all but Vegas or 27's for all but fita...


----------



## isaacdahl

Just picked up an armortech hd 7 pin (.019pins) for $140. How do you guys like axcels fibers...when they flare the end for the pin, do they make them really big or do they do a good job at keeping them smallish. Reason I ask, is because I'm afraid .019 pins are going to be a little big past 50 or 60yds. It was a good deal though, so I'm happy. He said he'd send it out today so who know when I'll get it.


----------



## N7709K

they are small.. barely melted and flared ends.. you'll like it..

hd?


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> they are small.. barely melted and flared ends.. you'll like it..
> 
> hd?


Yep, it's the hd. How much is the pro upgrade? Probably won't do it right away but if I ever decide to get a 3000 or something, it would be nice. Just curious because I couldn't find the price anywhere.


----------



## N7709K

think its liek $110 for the pro hd upgrade, but i'm not 100%.. i just went with the pro when i got mine


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> think its liek $110 for the pro hd upgrade, but i'm not 100%.. i just went with the pro when i got mine


Wow, that's a load. If I got just a mounting bracket I could probably machine my own bar for like under $10. Perfect case scenario would've been a hd pro 7 .010 pin but you know how it goes when you buy used.


----------



## N7709K

it might not be that much, i don't remember since it has been a while since i asked price on one. 

well you can get them used, just gotta wait a little more


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> it might not be that much, i don't remember since it has been a while since i asked price on one.
> 
> well you can get them used, just gotta wait a little more


Yeah, I'm sure they're out there somewhere I just don't like waiting, lol. Anyways, the pro isn't essential right now...I can always add it later if I want.


----------



## N7709K

true.. for me it was needed at the time so i went for it. 

i'm playin with the alphaburner a good bit making it a better huntign rig


----------



## N7709K

the burner was way outta whack.. had to put a couple twists into the string to get the dl good, had to time her up a little bit. reserved the peep and that helps a ton, shes gonna pound em now. just waitin on a the stabs to be finished and the wind to die down


----------



## isaacdahl

So what have you been using for hunting thus far?


----------



## N7709K

burner. i've only gone out once.. it shot just fine before, but the dl was a little long, it didn't want to really hold on spot and the groups spread out a bit at distance. 

i more or less set it up as a back up bow since i may need one.. it shot better than most hunting rigs before i did the tunign to it, but it wasn't up to par for indoor. 

couple twists here and there makes a world of difference. gonna see how she shoots now


----------



## isaacdahl

You have 60lb limbs on it?


----------



## N7709K

yeah.. i got it for a different purpose but she doesn't want to stretch out to 100yds so shes the hunting rig


----------



## isaacdahl

The burner would make a great treestand bow, that's for sure. What kind of speed you getting out of it and what arrow?


----------



## N7709K

actually its not that great of a treestand rig.. at my 29" it has a pretty steep string angle off the spirals so your form gets effected on steep angle shots. its sweet in the blind or if like ladder stands or low stands.

at 29" 60lbs its shootin a 500gr fmj at 278


----------



## isaacdahl

Ah, I see what your getting at, guess I wouldn't really know cause I don't have no 29"dl monkey arms:tongue:

That's really bookin it for a 500gr arrow at 60lbs. I've often wished I had a hoyt to test against what I currently have, just for the fact that you can usually beat ibo with Hoyts...all companies should heir on the side of to slow than to fast if you ask me. So that could easily make 350ibo couldn't it; maybe even over that!? Don't really feel like doin the math...to early in the morning for me.

Just remember guys; "Hoyts are SLOW" lol.


----------



## [email protected]

Hoyt does advertise slower than IBO, but all companies tune the bow to max possible speed, to achieve IBO. I saw a thread on here about an MR6 and Crackers. Crackers got it to 353 at 67 lbs and 30 inch draw with a 350 grain arrow. The MR6's IBO is 354, so it's at IBO. 

That is smokin for a 500gr arrow! Ought to be deadly.


----------



## N7709K

No advertisers shoot 30" fl which can run up to .75" long and upto a 400gr at 80lbs... If you tune them you get above ibo.

My burner is my only Hoyt to not hit ibo, tuned well or not it won't shoot 330fps at 29" 300gr arrow. My alphamax hit and passes ibo


----------



## underdog145

Except hoyt measures theirs with ASA. Not IBO. IBO is 30 in. at 5 gpp. Doesnt matter the length of the arrow or draw weight, as long as its 5 grains per pound. ASA is 30 in (from the throat of the grip i believe) and a 70 lbs draw weight with a 30 in, 350 grain arrow. That is why hoyt usually reaches the numbers they advertise.


----------



## Sighting In

underdog145 said:


> Except hoyt measures theirs with ASA. Not IBO. IBO is 30 in. at 5 gpp. Doesnt matter the length of the arrow or draw weight, as long as its 5 grains per pound. ASA is 30 in (from the throat of the grip i believe) and a 70 lbs draw weight with a 30 in, 350 grain arrow. That is why hoyt usually reaches the numbers they advertise.


So would a super short arrow with the same weight be faster? I mean, I can see less surface area could give it a touch more, but unless it's a lot of inches, I don't think it would make much of a difference at all.


----------



## [email protected]

Are you ready for the Hoyts to come out the 19th??


----------



## N7709K

went out huntign tonight in gale force winds.. i swear i saw cows blowing past.. ended up not seeing any deer


----------



## isaacdahl

^It was like that on Saturday here also...it was freezing cold sitting in the top of a tree in the morning.


----------



## isaacdahl

Just wondering why they make hinges from different metals such as brass and sometimes stainless steel? I know I've heard the answer before but I can't really come up with anything right now. It must obviously do something with weight...


----------



## N7709K

alu has i finer finish than the other too, some like smoother releases.. ss and brass are much heavier so you have heft to the release.


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> went out huntign tonight in gale force winds.. i swear i saw cows blowing past.. ended up not seeing any deer


Same here Jacob. Gets real cold 20 ft up in the air.


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> alu has i finer finish than the other too, some like smoother releases.. ss and brass are much heavier so you have heft to the release.


I can see where a heavier release would feel a little more secure; I was just thinkin about how lite my alu zenith felt when I was shooting tonight. I really notice how lite it is when my hands are really cold for some odd reason...makes ya think.



archerykid13 said:


> Gets real cold 20 ft up in the air.


Haha, besides the coldness factor, don't ya hate it when it's really windy and you feel like the tree gonna bend over and fling ya out like a sling shot, lol.


----------



## muzzyman1212

I won a dozen trophy ridge arrows at a shoot the other day and they seem pretty nice. Anyway the dealer today hoyt is coming out with a cam that has speed but you can adjust it with mods sounds good to me.


----------



## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> I can see where a heavier release would feel a little more secure; I was just thinkin about how lite my alu zenith felt when I was shooting tonight. I really notice how lite it is when my hands are really cold for some odd reason...makes ya think.
> 
> 
> Haha, besides the coldness factor, don't ya hate it when it's really windy and you feel like the tree gonna bend over and fling ya out like a sling shot, lol.


I stood up and if I didnt have my safety harness I prolly wouldve fell.


----------



## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> I stood up and if I didnt have my safety harness I prolly wouldve fell.


You get one of those Gorilla harnesses yet?

Just got my 7 pin armortech in the mail today...love that thing.


----------



## N7709K

its not that cold really.. it was maybe 45-50 degrees with some wind.. its just a pain cause nothing moves.


as for the new hoyts.. if they get rid of spirals i'll probably go elsewhere for bows or i will not be buyin new. unless their new cams hit 60% letoff without having to dick with timing, stops, and all that fun stuff. if you ever get the option shoot a low letoff version of the bow you shoot. it will shoot tighter groups when tuned than your current rig, especially if you match the holding weight to the mass weight of the bow. Fuels are a solid cam if you spend the time to play with them, tune them to a proper spine of arrow, and then get the mass weight down. i've shot awesome scores with them as much as i don't like them.

if any of you are at the iowa pro am, vegas, indoor nationals, or any local mn shoots hit me up and i'll be more than happy to let you play with my rigs


----------



## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> You get one of those Gorilla harnesses yet?
> 
> Just got my 7 pin armortech in the mail today...love that thing.


Not yet. Yeah the Armortech is awesome.


----------



## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> its not that cold really.. it was maybe 45-50 degrees with some wind.. its just a pain cause nothing moves.
> 
> 
> as for the new hoyts.. if they get rid of spirals i'll probably go elsewhere for bows or i will not be buyin new. unless their new cams hit 60% letoff without having to dick with timing, stops, and all that fun stuff. if you ever get the option shoot a low letoff version of the bow you shoot. it will shoot tighter groups when tuned than your current rig, especially if you match the holding weight to the mass weight of the bow. Fuels are a solid cam if you spend the time to play with them, tune them to a proper spine of arrow, and then get the mass weight down. i've shot awesome scores with them as much as i don't like them.
> 
> if any of you are at the iowa pro am, vegas, indoor nationals, or any local mn shoots hit me up and i'll be more than happy to let you play with my rigs


I'll let you play with my VE+ Jacob. Haha


----------



## muzzyman1212

Ok tbh I have never shot spirals but have heard good things about them from good shooters. I would love to get a alphaburner as a 3d bow but the 6" bh scares me. Haha! Would you not like a cam that feels like the spiral with modules?


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## N7709K

The spirals make up for any lack of brace, I shot mine for indoor and still do for fun. That's why spirals work, they make you shoot strong shots and fix form stuff(creepig, not outgoing through, etc). 

If they came out with a modular spiral cam I would try it, but unless it's 100% the same as the spiral it won't have the same features. So I wouldn't like it/see a point to it. Spirals aren't a cam for new shoots on bows like a burner because you outgrow them. But for shooters a bit older into the game they work very very well


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## archerykid13

Spirals are the best cam made IMO. Spirals with modules would feel different but in a good way. If you have good form brace height really doesn't matter. I used to shoot an XLR8 and had no problem with it.


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## isaacdahl

I can't see Hoyt getting rid of spirals...if they did they'd be stupid.

Interesting concept, Jacob, about setting the letoff to the actual weight. Wouldn't it easier to use say, 80%, since most setups don't weight ~20lbs (at least I wouldn't think they'd weight that much, idk)? I've got my bow set up for hunting right now, so idk what my target setup weighs, but currently it's only about 6.8lbs... not gonna have 13lbs in stabs. Just thinkin out loud, not tryin to jibe:smile:


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## N7709K

80% is too much. At 57lbs I have roughly 25lb of holding weight(55% Letoff). My total mass weight is about 9.4lbs fully weighted down.

So at 80% you would need a light bow to get a decent hold pattern and a light bow doran not hold like a heavy bow and thus doesn't shoot scores like a heavy bow. 

Low Letoff needs to comback and all bows should be shipped 65% I not 60%. 80% should be special order


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## N7709K

Matchin holding weight to mass weight is all about getting proper hold... Not having a 20lb bow at 20lb holding weight. When you have the equilibrium you will shoot the best scores of your career


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## archerykid13

X2 with shipping bows 65% Jacob. But 80% is good for hunting.


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## N7709K

I will disagree. Best hunting bow I have shot is my burner for 40yds and in... 50yds they all have shot good, past that te maxxis and alphamax take an advantage. 

The 65% makes you a better shot and gives nicer things too... Little more speed, smoother roll over, cams don't take off like they do at high Letoff, they hold better, and you can't collapse on low Letoff so it's not such an issue holding. I've been at full draw on turkeys for almost 2 min before and the burner is much easier to hold than the alphamax and the burner has more holding weight


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## muzzyman1212

It makes sense im 16 and dont see my dl growing for a while but my question is do they make a 27.5 inch spiral? Im gonna learn back tension soon ive found someone to teach me so now i just gotta buy a release.


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## N7709K

They make spirals down to 25.5" I think but for sure they make 27.5" spirals


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## archerykid13

I might have to try 65% on my hunting bow.


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## muzzyman1212

Ok I was just making sure they made half inch incraments. I might have to try a burner what would my other options be for a good 3d/ backup hunting bow


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## N7709K

Maxxis, alphamax both 35's.... If you want a Hoyt... All told you should just try lots of bows, and settle on what you like


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## muzzyman1212

Well with bactension i was thinking a lower letoff would be nice so I was gonna drift away from bowtech and i just dont like mathews. I have was thinking a 2010 carbon matrix or a alphaburner I think a carbonburner would be nice.


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## muzzyman1212

Pluse my dealer sells hoyt, bowtech, and bear so id like to stick with hoyt or bt.


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## archerykid13

Id check out a Maxxis or an Alphamax 35s like Jacob said. Both are awesome bows.


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## muzzyman1212

archerykid13 said:


> Id check out a Maxxis or an Alphamax 35s like Jacob said. Both are awesome bows.


I have checked them out there ok just not my fav I would rather shoot a m7.


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## muzzyman1212

I like the alphamax better than the maxxis though theyre pretty nice.


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## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> Maxxis, alphamax both 35's.... If you want a Hoyt... All told you should just try lots of bows, and settle on what you like


How hard would it be to make a carbonburner I have seen one on here.


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> 80% is too much. At 57lbs I have roughly 25lb of holding weight(55% Letoff). My total mass weight is about 9.4lbs fully weighted down.
> 
> So at 80% you would need a light bow to get a decent hold pattern and a light bow doran not hold like a heavy bow and thus doesn't shoot scores like a heavy bow.
> 
> Low Letoff needs to comback and all bows should be shipped 65% I not 60%. 80% should be special order


Ok, I see what your saying, I kinda miss understood your first post.



muzzyman1212 said:


> How hard would it be to make a carbonburner I have seen one on here.


Don't know if I've ever seen any carbon bows with spirals, but I have seen them with z3's. It would take some time to get string lengths, draw weight, and dl figured out.


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## muzzyman1212

I bet i could pm the guy that has the one I see and he could give the specs.


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## archerykid13

PM the guy and see how he did it. Id wait til tomorrow and see what Hoyt brings. They might have a fster longer ATA carbon bow. I'm going to be making a Monster frankenbow. I'm going to be using an Ovation or Conquest Triumph riser with M6 limbs and cams or a Supra riser with UF cams (2010 Omen cams).


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## muzzyman1212

Nice! Yeah im gonna wait but idk if I could make a carbonburner for cheaper than the 2012s are gonna be? Im pretty excited im sure I will be told to put my phone up many times tomorrow. Haha


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## archerykid13

Haha yeah. Same here.


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## N7709K

They come out 19th so that should be we'd... But idk I'm not excited....


Carbon burners aren't hard to make just spirals on a matrix. It's getting them to shoot and shoot well


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## archerykid13

We'll probably see them today. They usually show them on FB the day before.


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## muzzyman1212

archerykid13 said:


> We'll probably see them today. They usually show them on FB the day before.


Yeah I hope.


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## N7709K

They come out tomorrow last I heard... They will come and go just like every year


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## N7709K

New ones do nothin for me, not gonna bother shooting them unless they are a 65% Letoff rig. But then I'll still have to Try and work around the roller guard


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> New ones do nothin for me, not gonna bother shooting them unless they are a 65% Letoff rig. But then I'll still have to Try and work around the roller guard


Can you please explain the disadvantages of a roller gaurd?


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## N7709K

A rollerguard is a static point. I can tweak and play with a slide to make it how I want. If I need to go to the right... I can if I need to go left. I can... A roller does not allow this. They also add more tension to the cables causing more lean issues I the top/bottom cams. Sure they work but I'll take a smoothe draw tunable rig over a stiff draw and less tunable especially with high Letoff.


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> A rollerguard is a static point. I can tweak and play with a slide to make it how I want. If I need to go to the right... I can if I need to go left. I can... A roller does not allow this. They also add more tension to the cables causing more lean issues I the top/bottom cams. Sure they work but I'll take a smoothe draw tunable rig over a stiff draw and less tunable especially with high Letoff.


So then why don't the companies make all bows with a regular cable gaurd instead of a roller gaurd???


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## N7709K

if you look at target rigs, very few do employ a roller. when hoyt goes to a roller for their target bows, thats when i'm no longer buying them. I will hold on to my vantage elite until something better comes along, with spirals and a cable slide.

it comes down to gettin speed out of rigs. a roller guard adds 4-6fps of speed to a hoyt. now my alphamax shoots faster than my maxxis and the crx do. i have my bow properly tuned and with my hunting arrows my alphamax comes out on top for speed. 

All people want now a days are shorter, faster bows. They work for hunting, but start shooting at 60-80yds and a longer bow will win out over a shorter one in accuracy and hold pattern.


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## outdoorkid1

I don't see why they would make a roller gaurd to gain 4-6 fps and then lose out on other things like tuning and accuracy.


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## archerykid13

outdoorkid1 said:


> I don't see why they would make a roller gaurd to gain 4-6 fps and then lose out on other things like tuning and accuracy.


Simple. Speed sells and companies know this. Companies market what sells. If people wanted longer bows, thats what they'll sell.


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## N7709K

the tuning is stuff most hunters wont go through because they see no need or they don't know about it. when you shoot lots of target and setup your bow for the game your shootign you will know what i'm talking about. its more than a basic tune and it comes down to getting a setup that will shoot the same spot every time


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## archerykid13

outdoorkid1 said:


> I don't see why they would make a roller gaurd to gain 4-6 fps and then lose out on other things like tuning and accuracy.


And most people who buy short fast hunting bows don't necessarily tune them. They just screw on there gear sight it in and call it quits.


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## archerykid13

N7709K said:


> the tuning is stuff most hunters wont go through because they see no need or they don't know about it. when you shoot lots of target and setup your bow for the game your shootign you will know what i'm talking about. its more than a basic tune and it comes down to getting a setup that will shoot the same spot every time


x2. This kid knows all about hitting the same spot haha.


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## N7709K

i can tune a bow to get that 5fps easy.. you just gotta put a little time in.. and you have to trust in your gear. now if every state put a min 4oo gr arrow rule into affect then people wouldn't worry so much about speed because they can't shoot fast with under 80lbs.. and really it should be 7gpp for hunting if not a little more


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## Doeslayer13

:doh:WOAH! just found this thread and im always on AT!


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## Doeslayer13

WHo needs tuning!!! BUy a recurve....By the way is there any other traditional shooters hear(youth)?


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## muzzyman1212

Hey guys can you check my form sorry for the bad picture.


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## archerykid13

It would help if it was a little more zoomed in. But from that pic you look pretty good.


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## muzzyman1212

Ok Ill try to get a better picture.


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## isaacdahl

I HATE roller guards...they're nothing more than a pain in the butt and a good selling point for companies. They've always caused cam lean and tons of lateral torque in my last two bowtechs. The reason I shoot a bow with them, though, is because I love the bows to the point that it outways the advantage (for the most part) of the stupid roller guard. With some playing around I'm usually able to get most of the cam lean out and the torque honestly doesn't seem to make a difference of whether it tunes or shoots well (for me at least, but I'm sure someone with more experience would disagree).


----------



## Harm Hunter JR.

isaacdahl said:


> I HATE roller guards...they're nothing more than a pain in the butt and a good selling point for companies. They've always caused cam lean and tons of lateral torque in my last two bowtechs. The reason I shoot a bow with them, though, is because I love the bows to the point that it outways the advantage (for the most part) of the stupid roller guard. With some playing around I'm usually able to get most of the cam lean out and the torque honestly doesn't seem to make a difference of whether it tunes or shoots well (for me at least, but I'm sure someone with more experience would disagree).


 I know why. coz its a bowtech and not a hoyt (although i shoot a diamond,half bowtech) hoyts have perfected the roller guard


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## isaacdahl

Harm Hunter JR. said:


> I know why. coz its a bowtech and not a hoyt (although i shoot a diamond,half bowtech) hoyts have perfected the roller guard


Not necessarily. The principle's still the same...not must design change in the function part of it. They do use a hybrid cam system so top cam lean isn't really a problem, but the torque's still there, none the less.


----------



## isaacdahl

Am I the only one that thinks the new vector line is ugly? Not that it matters...as long as it's a good bow.


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## archerykid13

Hoyt has not perfected anything. They have cam lean like every other bow. I think the Vector line is so-so. Its just like the waffle riser it started to grow on people. I like the specs of the Turbo though.


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## bigbulls10

x2^. i havent had any problems tuning the newer mathews with there new roller. i had a roller on my attack and it wouldnt tune no matter what i did. i tried 10+ arrow brands and spines, and every point weight from 65 to 150.


----------



## [email protected]

If Any bow company perfected something, what would be left as far as innovation?


----------



## Sighting In

Honestly, I kind of like the way the new Vectors look. They seem more aggressive and dynamic to me. They LOOk powerful, not that it means much. lol

Honestly, the only way you're going to get rid of torque and cam lean is to make a system where the cables are not pulled to one side or the other. To do that, you'd have to have them WAY off to one side to get out of the way of the arrow (but that I think would itself cause an imbalance) or have a shoot-through style. A buddy of mine had a setup I really liked. He had the 2008 Commander (the cables ran to the same side of the cams for top and bottom- eg, they don't cross like most Bowtechs). He removed the cable guard, and put two of them down behind the stab mount. These pushed the cables apart equally, not creating torque. But most people don't like shoot throughs because they are too much work to load. Therefore, they won't sell them.


----------



## N7709K

Adam that is mostly true.... On short bows yes you need to route cables on both sides of the cams and run a binary system to get no lean an torque. On longer bows you can get away with a slide and some tuning. 

The Hoyt roller guard is better than most but it is still a roller and hence sucks.. It is only online with itself not the path of the cables... What would be the best to see is a shootthru with a slide or roller per side. One yOke and buss per side and a shoot thru cable system along with riser. Or a single yoke and split it below the grip with a spreader. Now here's the catch, you have to tune them much more than you do a bow now. You have to count twists much more carefully, an half to quarter twists will come into play along with every other little factor. 

As for looks, I don't like the looks of them... All though they do look better color wise than the crx
Muzzy, do you have low drift in your hold pattern?


----------



## muzzyman1212

I just shot at a cougar :0


----------



## bigbulls10

nice!


----------



## Harm Hunter JR.

isaacdahl said:


> Not necessarily. The principle's still the same...not must design change in the function part of it. They do use a hybrid cam system so top cam lean isn't really a problem, but the torque's still there, none the less.


yeah that too


----------



## N7709K

They still have lean, especially with a floating yoke.... Just less of it than others


----------



## Harm Hunter JR.

what do you think of the2012 Vector 32


----------



## Harm Hunter JR.

what do you think of the2012 Vector 32


----------



## N7709K

Will it shoot well? Yes but is it better than what is out there... No one knows yet


----------



## muzzyman1212

Turns out I hit a limb on the way to him.


----------



## Harm Hunter JR.

yah who knows


----------



## isaacdahl

Ok, not trying to push anyone's buttons...but having said that, who's getting fed up with all the Hoyt fanboys? It seems like Hoyt is the new Mathews and everyone thinks all bows except Hoyt are junk? Hoyt makes a good bow...I'm not saying they don't, but come on! I've always wanted a Hoyt but this almost wants to make me shy away from them; if you know what I'm sayin...don't want to labeled as that guy.

There are people who are excused from this and they know who they are (mainly the guys that admit there's more than one "good" brand; the brand that feels best to you.). I'm NOT bashing Hoyt, but it's getting kinda crazy.

Sorry for the rant, btw.


----------



## N7709K

Are we talking huntin or target fanboys? 


No one is worse than pse for fanboys


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Are we talking huntin or target fanboys?
> 
> 
> No one is worse than pse for fanboys


Hunting fanboys for the most part...don't worry, you, adam, bridge, and I'm sure there's many other's, are decent enough NOT to bash anyone else for there equipment choices as well as acknowledge those that choose other brands.

Yeah, them PSE fanboys is another story,:lol: jk


----------



## N7709K

Yeah they are getting bad... But they have something to cheer for now, I guess(emelent). Got my scope back today, it's like seeing your gf that you haven't seen for a month... Or two, lol it's soooo nice


----------



## isaacdahl

Haha, don't tell Kim that...lol

Where'd she run off to (the scope that is) if I may ask, lol.


----------



## N7709K

Aaron borrowed her for a little bit


----------



## N7709K

Well got my scope back and I shot a score tonight. For not practicing in a couple weeks and not shooting a scope for 4months I'll take a 298 25x. Just gotta work on the last spot, lol. 

Oh Aaron, the shippers chipped the straight 6x, still shoots good so no worries


----------



## N7709K

Shot an unofficial new personal best today. 28x, finally went to a 15" back and bingO there it was... Playin with a dot too. 

Went over some little form stuff today with Griv and got an interesting perspective on arrows. Might be playin around a good bit


----------



## underdog145

now all you have to do is throw a pound and a half of weights on that 15 in bar and youll really start poundin.  haha.


----------



## N7709K

Lol so 20oz isn't enough? 


Playin with form a bit, built a new strin today because the ve+ needed a new one and built a fix arrows


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Playin with form a bit, built a new strin today because the ve+ needed a new one and built a fix arrows


You build your own strings? I thought you ran vt's?

Got to shoot a Specialist the other day and I must say I was pretty impressed. It was someones indoor setup so it was loaded, but it seemed to be really quiet and hardly any hand shock. Which I didn't really think about initially since it was set up for target but I was very impressed. It also had a pretty good wall...dropped off into the valley nicely too.


----------



## N7709K

Nah, I do it I needed one for the ve+.... 

What Letoff was the one you shot


----------



## Sighting In

underdog145 said:


> now all you have to do is throw a pound and a half of weights on that 15 in bar and youll really start poundin.  haha.


I only shoot about a pound. Am I doin' it wrong? Maybe if I double it I'll start shooting 30x games.


----------



## N7709K

I'm down a little from where I was but I'm working my way slowly back to it


----------



## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> What Letoff was the one you shot


Not sure...I assume 65% but idk. It was kind of a last minute thing. My dad was getting a new cable put on and while I was waiting, the shop owner's wife started up a conversation with me and asked if I'd shot a Specialist yet... nope, I hadn't. Long story short she let me shoot her inferno Specialist.


----------



## N7709K

Ok... The ones I shot were higher and they didn't feel so good.


I got my 23's built up, well a doz of them. Gonna build up another few to play with in a bit after iget the new form stuff down.

Next thing is i have to look into diff releases. I'm gonna play with tons of hinges and find what feels the best to me. Right now I'm looking at an insideout, blackhole, longhorn/pro, bt gold pro, ht, and maybe maybe my old 4 finger.

Looks like my work is cut out for me. If anyone has some Scotts I could borrow, hit me up


----------



## N7709K

Played a bit at 20yds tonight... When I do my part she shoots good


----------



## N7709K

Finally got up to the range.... Shot a bit, ended up not having time for a full round but I got 8 ends in. She shoots good again, but I'm gonna make up a couple diff arrows to play with


----------



## N7709K

Well we've had a bad gun season in mn... Took a day and a half for our group to finally get some shooting in. I finally got a shot, well three(only one needed) but anyway I got some
Good vittles


----------



## hoytarcherygal

Cant believe its November, cant wait for indoor season to start up again here soon


----------



## isaacdahl

Congrats on the deer Jake!

Yeah really, I can't believe it's November already...my hunting season's been kinda bad with hardly any sightings let alone shot opportunities, especially for this time of year. I'll probably be doing a ton of blank bailing this winter...I hardly even practiced much; gotta get back in the groove of back tension, I'm a little rusty.

Other than that, this year has seemed to fly by and it has been a good one at that.


----------



## N7709K

Hahaha thanks... It's not much of a deer, but what I saw... Turned out to be a little button buck. First shot he acted like alone shot so I shot again... I didn't needed the second shot for sure, but I didn't want a Long track. I walked up to look for blood and he was maybe 8th away, and was kicking a bit so I shot a final shot... 

It was a really bad opener, we got two deer between 10guys. I fired the first shots of the group to put meat on the pole, we gave up passing deer by Saturday night


----------



## N7709K

tomorrow is gonna be a long day the bearings finally went out on the xtr's off the am35 and an unknown number of shots(atleast 6 digits for sure.. possible close to 300k shots). 

so i gotta call hoyt to figure out what they will do, other than have me contact my local hoyt retailer. Then i have to call the shop and have them call hoyt to get me what i need for parts


----------



## underdog145

I have a feeling they will just send you new cams bud. That's what they did for me when the bearings came loose on my VE a couple years ago. I have no doubt that they have some lyin around the factory somewhere. Haha.


----------



## War_Valley_Boy

Here is a pictures of me shooting my new bow that i thought i would throw up.


----------



## tookiebear

I feel like im the only girl on this site! and probably the only girl that has killed 2 bucks ( they were pretty big! ) 1 spike and the other 1 was an 8 point I was jumping like crazy!


----------



## 12-RING SHOOTER

tookiebear said:


> I feel like im the only girl on this site! and probably the only girl that has killed 2 bucks ( they were pretty big! ) 1 spike and the other 1 was an 8 point I was jumping like crazy!


nah, you're not the only girl, there a handful of others on here.


----------



## hoytarcherygal

Nah, ur not alone 


tookiebear said:


> I feel like im the only girl on this site! and probably the only girl that has killed 2 bucks ( they were pretty big! ) 1 spike and the other 1 was an 8 point I was jumping like crazy!


----------



## tookiebear

Cant wait till I get to go hunting tomorrow morning! Hope i see some deer ( or even anything )!


----------



## underdog145

Anybody besides Danny-boy heading to Presleys in a couple weeks?


----------



## N7709K

I wish bridge, but i can't make it this time.. i'm way too busy/broke lol


----------



## N7709K

i deff gotta start shootin more.. i can shoot good now, but it doesn't feel like it should cuase i don't shoot enough.... lol

what class you shootin in vegas bridge?


----------



## underdog145

I'll be makin a donation to the big dogs. Haha. I'm planning on buying my card once January rolls around.


----------



## N7709K

Oh cool, I'm doin the same thing... We'll see how it goes


----------



## N7709K

Back to the top, hope everyone had a good thanksgiving


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## N7709K

well i think i may take the plunge and get a dominator.... idk why i'm thinkin that tho?

what yall think?


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## outdoorkid1

N7709K said:


> well i think i may take the plunge and get a dominator.... idk why i'm thinkin that tho?
> 
> what yall think?


Whats wrong with your hoyts? If I were you I wouldn't do it. Your hoyts have shot great and just because they didn't come out with somthing spectaculiar for 2012, the old models still work just as good.


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## muzzyman1212

N7709K said:


> well i think i may take the plunge and get a dominator.... idk why i'm thinkin that tho?
> 
> what yall think?


You can try it you might like it better than your ve+ but if not just sell it and get another ve+ sometimes ya gotta try new stuff I understand.


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## N7709K

Bridge, when your bearing went out on the ve did you start to get a buzz in the cam? 

As for why, I need a second target rig.... Ve+ are harder to find than dominators, way harder.... The Hoyt shoots fine and there isn't a point to getting rid of the ve+ I have now, shoots too good. The dominator is a love/hate... And so far all the guys locally who I could try dumped their's for hoyt


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## isaacdahl

When you guys set up hunter's class rigs (for 3d) do you use the same length of the front bar on the side? I know a lot people don't use a side bar, but it doesn't seem to balance well without one. Just tryin to decide if I should use a 12" on the side or go shorter?


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## chasin feathers

tookiebear said:


> I feel like im the only girl on this site! and probably the only girl that has killed 2 bucks ( they were pretty big! ) 1 spike and the other 1 was an 8 point I was jumping like crazy!


yep, there are a few of us here.


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## N7709K

isaac, what weight are you using?

if its only a couple oz on the main then you can use a shorter back, if its 8+ oz then you want a 12" back just so you don't really load the back bar. I'll get pics of my setup here in a bit


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## isaacdahl

Idk yet...I'm just throwing around ideas as I don't have it to far a long but that gives me some idea.


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## muzzyman1212

Alright guys I shot a backtension realease today for the first time and it was great. So I ordered a scott black hole I liked the way scotts felt in my hand they didnt have any tru ball. Im pumped to shoot it a lot and see how it goes.


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## isaacdahl

Remember, the best thing you can do for yourself is make yourself a string bow and practice, practice, practice, until it's ingrained in your head...for me at least, this was about 2 weeks. That will teach you how to properly use your new hinge and draw without punching yourself in the face...which a lot of (beginners especially) will do as there is a trick to it. 

Then grab your bow and take the sights off. This is also very important as you'll need to keep trying to recruit back tension to muscle memory. This was the hardest part for me as I was not supposed to shoot my bow for like a month, other than blankbailing at 10yrds over and over. Well, I made it for about 2 weeks and gave in, which by the way was a bad idea. At first I was really shooting strong shots but no sooner it'd come and I was really fighting to make the shot break. But I got smart and started blankbailing a ton again and not shooting and distance stuff. Then I slooowwly started to work my way back in 5 yard increments and I still keep blankbailing to keep my self in shape.

So it takes a lot of time and can be very frustrating, but take my word for it...Learn right the first time and don't make the dumb mistakes I made! Once you get it down, it's very rewarding to see how much tighter your groups become.


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## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Remember, the best thing you can do for yourself is make yourself a string bow and practice, practice, practice, until it's ingrained in your head...for me at least, this was about 2 weeks. That will teach you how to properly use your new hinge and draw without punching yourself in the face...which a lot of (beginners especially) will do as there is a trick to it.
> 
> Then grab your bow and take the sights off. This is also very important as you'll need to keep trying to recruit back tension to muscle memory. This was the hardest part for me as I was not supposed to shoot my bow for like a month, other than blankbailing at 10yrds over and over. Well, I made it for about 2 weeks and gave in, which by the way was a bad idea. At first I was really shooting strong shots but no sooner it'd come and I was really fighting to make the shot break. But I got smart and started blankbailing a ton again and not shooting and distance stuff. Then I slooowwly started to work my way back in 5 yard increments and I still keep blankbailing to keep my self in shape.
> 
> So it takes a lot of time and can be very frustrating, but take my word for it...Learn right the first time and don't make the dumb mistakes I made! Once you get it down, it's very rewarding to see how much tighter your groups become.


Thanks! I didnt punch myself in the face last night so that was good. I will make myself a stringbow so I can shoot alot and learn it. I will blank bale as much as possible until I feel real comfertable.


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## isaacdahl

Yup, and once you get back to shooting with your sights, move back slowly so you don't put to much pressure on yourself and newly acquired technique.


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## muzzyman1212

isaacdahl said:


> Yup, and once you get back to shooting with your sights, move back slowly so you don't put to much pressure on yourself and newly acquired technique.


That makes sense thanks.


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## muzzyman1212

Would you guys mind posting pictures of your anchor point with handheld release. I am wondering so when I get mine I have an idea.


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## Sighting In

Here's me at AZ Cup this year (back in April, but it hasn't really changed since then):

https://picasaweb.google.com/112135981035088933896/2011ArizonaCup#5593543255596696674

You might also appreciate Reo Wilde and Roger Willett at the same shoot (if you don't know, one is a world champ and 2x Vegas winner, and the other won at least 3 of the World Cup stages this year. They're beasts):

https://picasaweb.google.com/112135981035088933896/2011ArizonaCup#5593534683944879010

The biggest thing I think is to get your jaw comfortably between your index and middle knuckles. This is a comfortable and consistent way to do it every time. But the biggest thing is for you to play with it yourself.


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## N7709K

here's a couple of me...

pretty much what adam said is spot on, get something comfortable for you that you can repeat time and time again.


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## isaacdahl

What would be an ideal hinge for you guys that's not currently on the market? Post specifics if you can.

Crazy ideas again...


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## archerykid13

A Tru-Ball HT head on a Scott Black Hole frame.


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## N7709K

Ideal would be a brass or ss ht but with a little more rounded handle like a scott...


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> Ideal would be a brass or ss ht but with a little more rounded handle like a scott...


What do think of an adjustable spike (kinda like a whalens hooker)?


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## archerykid13

Id buy one Isaac! Haha


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## isaacdahl

Sweet, I'll work on drawing one up on acad this weekend.


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## isaacdahl

Here's what I got as far as the handle goes...







Let me know what you guys think.


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## archerykid13

Looks good so far Isaac. Could you possibly make the hole 1 1/4"?


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## isaacdahl

i beefed up the first finger whole that way I can get a greater radius along that edge. I'm trying to get the feel of a Stan thumb release in there as far as comfort goes.


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## archerykid13

Alright. Sounds good.


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## isaacdahl

Yeah sure, that'll be easy to do. If you want any more adjustments, just let me know and I'll try to get to your specs the best I can.


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## archerykid13

Ok. Id like it made out of solid gold and spell out X-KILLER on the side with diamonds. Haha jk


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## isaacdahl

Haha, sure you send me the block of gold and the diamonds and I'll do it for ya, lol.


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## archerykid13

Haha will do.


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## N7709K

That's what the I/o is... Works for some not for others... Lots of people didnt like it... I like to see a better adjust hinge like the ht but on a handle similar to what you put up or even a bt gold ultra. Simplicity is a good thing, but simplicity can only take you so far. At a point being simple is a detriment. I would like to see a 3axis moveable peg, and a hook/sear option with diff lengths of clicks


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## isaacdahl

Sorry, I guess you gotta spell it out for me lol. What do mean by a 3rd axis peg...infinite adjustment thumb peg in on the x,y,z planes?


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## archerykid13

Jacob almost always has to explain stuff to me haha.


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## isaacdahl

Here ya go ak13 jake...how's it look?







Once we get a design your 100% happy with, I'll get it up in 3d.


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## archerykid13

Good enough for me Isaac. 3D the heck out of it haha.


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## isaacdahl

Haha. I'll get it up in 3d anyways, that way you can see all the radius's etc.


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## isaacdahl

How thick do you want it?


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## archerykid13

3/8" should be good.


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## N7709K

3/8" is thick.. real thick.. especially if its not going to be alu.


taper the thickness as it goes, have the whole a little thinner on the back side, and at the pinky end.

the thumb peg should be like the stans, you can go up/down, in/out, rotate the angle, etc... i can fit the release to me and jake and you and anyone.. as for the hook it has to have tight tolerances in the head itself and not have any slop... the pin should have a cap on one end so it goes in and is fully in and centered on the release body. make sure there is enough material at the head to be able to take the tension.

as for the release body itself, the more rounded the flat faces of the finger grooves the easier the release will fire and the less hand position plays a part... although it feels better it will allow you to shoot a weak shot much easier


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## archerykid13

It is going to be brass. Would 1/2" be better Jacob? And Isaac could you do the stuff that Jacob mentioned?


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## N7709K

for which measure of .5"?


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## archerykid13

Thickness.


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## isaacdahl

3/8" isn't really all that thick. My zenith is 5/8's and I'd bet most scotts are 3/8" to 1/2". I'll try to get something drawings around for ya N77 Jake once I get ak13's done (if your interested that is).

So than as for how much to round the faces, it should be just enough to be comfortable but not to much?


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## N7709K

so the top to bottom measure on the rt. side view?


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## isaacdahl

Oh, I was typing when you guys were.

Ak13: Do you still want the whalen's style just change the handle and thumb peg?


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## archerykid13

I was talking about thickness from the back view?


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## isaacdahl

N7709K said:


> so the top to bottom measure on the rt. side view?


dk what you mean? 

By the thickness, I mean as in taking a 2d face and raising it up to X height to make it 3d.


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## N7709K

give me a min and i'll take a mic. to my releases....


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## isaacdahl

archerykid13 said:


> I was talking about thickness from the back view?


Yeah, that's what I'm thinkin too.


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## archerykid13

isaacdahl said:


> dk what you mean?
> 
> By the thickness, I mean as in taking a 2d face and raising it up to X height to make it 3d.


 x2.


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## isaacdahl

Ok, once someone gets off the other computer with acad on it, I'll try to work on it some more.


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## archerykid13

Alright.


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## isaacdahl

Huh, for some reason when I try to get on Stan's website it says it may harm my computer and it blocks it?

Oh well, I kind find other pics and I think I remember how my sx2 worked.


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## N7709K

bt gold: .625" wide X .25" @ ring finger, .3" @middle finger, and bout .331" @ index with a .325" thick neck at the half moon.
sweet spot II: .625" wide X .255" @ ring finger, .405" @middle finger, .655" @index with a .360" thick neck at the half moon/sear
tru tension 4: .689" wide X .255" @pinky, .275" @ ring finger, .290" @middle, .433" @index with a .356" thick neck at the half moon
longhorn 3 alu: .350" at the tip of curl, .671" wide X .340" @ring finger, .354" @ middle, .443" @ index with a .392" thick at the neck

now my fav not listed is my ht that is currently no longer in my possession.. that release flat out shoots


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## isaacdahl

If someone has a ht or tru tension or whatever is needed for that head, it would be a tremendous help if I could borrow it to take some measurements. It's pretty much impossible for me to make that head system without having one here.

I got the handle down and the stan peg adjustment won't take much time, but I'm really stuck on the head. I can do a regular dump or adjustable spike, but not much more without having anything here as a reference.


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## archerykid13

Jacob uses his BT Gold as his main so that won't work. Just do an adjustable spike.


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## N7709K

I also have a Tru tension...  That I don't really use... Same head, hook, half-moon, all that


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## isaacdahl

Hmm, well I'll mess around with an adjustable spike for now and if everything works out maybe I can get my hands on the right head and get something drawn up this weak.

Think I could borrow your tru tension jake? That is, if your interested in me gettin an idea around for ya? I'd be more than happy if your willing.


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## N7709K

Personally I say just make a Handle for now, heads is heads... Yeah let me pick up a spare real quick and I'll send it out


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## muzzyman1212

Thanks for the pictures guys I appreciate it. I havent repyed cause I updated my phone and it took tapatalk off so im just using safari now. That realease is looking nice isaac Ive though of maching a release before.


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## archerykid13

I hope it works as good as it looks.


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## isaacdahl

Thanks muzzyman, I'm glad you like it!


muzzyman1212 said:


> Thanks for the pictures guys I appreciate it. I havent repyed cause I updated my phone and it took tapatalk off so im just using safari now. That realease is looking nice isaac Ive though of maching a release before.



I'll try to get a real good machinist with some time under their belt as far as cnc goes. Hopefully, it should turn out to within a couple thousandths of the drawing.


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## isaacdahl

Here's what I got as far as the adjustable thumb peg mount. I don't have the thumb peg drawn up though...I'll probably just purchase some from Stan so I might have to end up making some small changes to that part cause I don't know the exact measurements for it. It give you an idea though. 







Let me know if you want me to change the position or anything,


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## N7709K

you might need a longer neck for the hook, maybe/maybe not you'd have to find an i/o or black hole to measure off of.

Are you gonna mock any up outta poly or anything before the final run?


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## archerykid13

Thatd be a good idea Isaac. Make one out of poly or something to see how it feels. And it looks good to me so far.


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## isaacdahl

Yeah, I thought about it...first I gotta find out machining prices though. If they'll do a poly one pretty cheap than, yeah, I most likely will. But if they're gonna charge the full price, I'll just have the real thing made.

So far it's just kinda a basis to give you some ideas of what it'll look like, but there's still going to be some changes made as far as where to mount the head and all the the more technical stuff.


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## archerykid13

Alright. Sounds good.


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## N7709K

one thing to keep in mind is how the release is going to rotate especially on a spike.. you need to keep teh roatation centralized between the index and middle finger..


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## isaacdahl

Yep, thanks for reminding me of that:smile:. 

I do see a couple changes that can be made, but I'll save those till I have rest of the parts.


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## N7709K

ttt


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## isaacdahl

I'll get started on the head tonight for the release and try to get pics up.


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