# Roast My Form (but don't make me cry)



## Drew123456 (Apr 27, 2020)

Nice hips trying to pick up a Salior ?


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## ElMuercielago (May 26, 2020)

Drew123456 said:


> Nice hips trying to pick up a Salior ?


If the right one comes along we can talk...


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## Jcarrera (Feb 4, 2018)

you've kind of got the Rio Wilde stance going on by leaning back on to your rear leg. Try standing a bit more upright and maybe consider shortening your DL a bit. Not being able to anchor at the corner of my mouth and the tip of my nose would give me tons of issues..


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## solomtnhunter (Nov 24, 2017)

Stance, grip, and both anchor points. Forearm and elbow kinda, but can't really tell. Just seems to be more extended than should be. Also wondering how you fire your release with finger? I know some guys with beards get lil weird with their anchor points because their afraid of ripping hairs off. Others say no problem. I can kinda see pulling hairs as problem, especially if it hurts enough to cause you to move your bow even the slightest. Then again probably something you didn't even consider.

Guess whatever form you got... just do it constantly. Heck i watched the 2019 Archery World Cup and there's a Korean guy who literally anchors past his nose and lips (@ 4:25min and 8:31min). But he was killing it continually scoring perfect 10's. So like i said before... Consistancy


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## Bgbuck1534 (Aug 3, 2020)

Do they make a tree stand platform big enough to keep your feet on it while at full draw? Lol. You look way to relaxed


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ElMuercielago said:


> Been shooting for a while but with the exception of a quick lesson when I first started, haven't had any formal coaching. This is actually the first time I even took photos/video which definitely should have been done much earlier. Currently at 70#, 27"DL, 30" ATA. Sorry the photos are not level...I blame my wife
> 
> Everything feels fairly good and I can get (usually) great groups out to 50 yds but I struggle at times with consistency which lends me to believe there is a lot of improvement to be had in my form. Any support or advice would be absolutely welcome. Thank you!!
> 
> ...


So, I gotta assume you have NEVER EVER seen any How's My Form photos on ArcheryTalk.

So, let's take a look at what you do, with no shoes on, and let's go even further.










If you spread your legs even farther apart, maybe you will be more stable (do the opposite...get shoes on, and get legs sooo close, your ankles are touching). Yes, ankles TOUCHING. I would never NEVER shoot with my ankles touching. WHY would I want to have my ANKLES TOUCHING? Well, for ONE photo, let's see what happens, when you have legs sooo close, your ankles are touching. THIS is to demonstrate something about your draw length.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ElMuercielago said:


> Been shooting for a while but with the exception of a quick lesson when I first started, haven't had any formal coaching. This is actually the first time I even took photos/video which definitely should have been done much earlier. Currently at 70#, 27"DL, 30" ATA. Sorry the photos are not level...I blame my wife
> 
> Everything feels fairly good and I can get (usually) great groups out to 50 yds but I struggle at times with consistency which lends me to believe there is a lot of improvement to be had in my form. Any support or advice would be absolutely welcome. Thank you!!
> 
> ...


Well, clearly the draw length is too short, cuz I CAN't get the string to my nose. Maybe I should go LONGER on the Draw? Well, let's get a new photo WITH SHOES, and with ankles touching, and let's see if you fall over backwards.

If you fall over backwards, while wearing SHOES, and ankles touching together, then, the draw is TOO LONG, not too short. HINT. String don't touch nose, cuz you are not leaning BACKWARDS enough.










BUT, I'm leaning WAY WAY backwards, and the string still don't touch my nose. THIS is an exaggeration. Do the opposite. Get legs/ankles TOUCHING together, with SHOES on your feet, and stand as TALL as you can,
with head/neck CENTERED between ankles. Guarantee the string will touch NOSE and maybe string will go BEHIND nose.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ElMuercielago said:


> Been shooting for a while but with the exception of a quick lesson when I first started, haven't had any formal coaching. This is actually the first time I even took photos/video which definitely should have been done much earlier. Currently at 70#, 27"DL, 30" ATA. Sorry the photos are not level...I blame my wife
> 
> Everything feels fairly good and I can get (usually) great groups out to 50 yds but I struggle at times with consistency which lends me to believe there is a lot of improvement to be had in my form. Any support or advice would be absolutely welcome. Thank you!!
> 
> ...


Right wrist rotation. You are shooting a WRIST strap release, not a handle release. So, with a WRIST STRAP release, no need to TWIST your wrist so much. ROTATE wrist clockwise, so back of hand is horizontal, like a table. More like Dudley.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ElMuercielago said:


> Been shooting for a while but with the exception of a quick lesson when I first started, haven't had any formal coaching. This is actually the first time I even took photos/video which definitely should have been done much earlier. Currently at 70#, 27"DL, 30" ATA. Sorry the photos are not level...I blame my wife
> 
> Everything feels fairly good and I can get (usually) great groups out to 50 yds but I struggle at times with consistency which lends me to believe there is a lot of improvement to be had in my form. Any support or advice would be absolutely welcome. Thank you!!
> 
> ...


Bow hand knuckles rotation. Too many fingers around riser. What does THAT mean?










Want knuckles rotated at 45 degrees. WHAT's so special about 45 degrees? I mean, everybody DIFFERENT, right? Nope. You have a thumb, you have 4 other fingers, you have a wrist. So, that makes you human like most other humans on this planet. So, cuz you have a fully operation bow hand, then, that means you also have a thumb muscle. We want the thumb muscle NOT to ooze past the right vertical edge of the right handed bow. So, we do this with NEWBIES by rotating the knuckles 45 degrees. THIS works for MOST humans on THIS planet.










When the knuckles are rotated to 45 degrees, much LESS of the thumb muscle spreads past the right vertical edge of the grip. When the knuckles are rotated 45 degrees, the POINTER finger knuckle rises ABOVE the arrow shelf. The POINTER finger knuckle is HIGHER than the thumb knuckle.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

FRONT view of 45 degrees on bow hand knuckles.










An even CLOSER close up.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ElMuercielago said:


> Been shooting for a while but with the exception of a quick lesson when I first started, haven't had any formal coaching. This is actually the first time I even took photos/video which definitely should have been done much earlier. Currently at 70#, 27"DL, 30" ATA. Sorry the photos are not level...I blame my wife
> 
> Everything feels fairly good and I can get (usually) great groups out to 50 yds but I struggle at times with consistency which lends me to believe there is a lot of improvement to be had in my form. Any support or advice would be absolutely welcome. Thank you!!
> 
> ...


So, since you have NEVER EVER seen ANY How's My Form photos...you know, dem photos with people with SHOES ON....here is an example of a How's My Form photo...you know, with SHOES on da feet.










BUT, I never stand with my ankles soooo CLOSE.










Yeah, we know. So, stand with your ankles touching, and when ankles are touching, your legs will be DEAD vertical.
Pull the bow back to full draw, with ankles touching each other, and then, let's see how far the string lands behind your nose, cuz with ankles touching, and legs VERTICAL...you will need a DOOR (edge of door) to hold you up, so you don't fall backwards. The EDGE of the door is vertical, and the EDGE of the door will help you stand up tall and vertical. Yup, will FEEL weird, not LEANING BACKWARDS, and you MIGHT feel like you are falling FORWARDS,
but you know and WE know that the edge of the door is VERTICAL.

What's with the tape on the wall?

That TAPE on the wall is to help you figure out how HIGH you gots to lift up the bow hand. CUz, you have ALWAYS leaned WAY WAY back, the first time you stand up vertical (with help of the door edge),
you will NATURALLY want to how the bow LOW, below horizontal, cuz U are used to a tiny LEFT side armpit angle. GOnna take several tries to get a GOOD photo, with the edge of the door holding u up VERTICAL,
with ankles TOUCHING
with shoes on your feet,
and with the bow hand HIGH enough, to get the arrow horizontal, while the edge of the door holds u up VERTICAL.

So, new photo.


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## BTJunkie (Feb 18, 2020)

Stand straight and tall.. Lighten that grip and set that palm outside the lifeline...between line and meaty part of your thumb as seen above in a post. I'd lengthen your DL a bit to have a couple more anchor points. Without being there there's no idea what your sight alignment looks like at full draw.


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## ElMuercielago (May 26, 2020)

Bgbuck1534 said:


> Do they make a tree stand platform big enough to keep your feet on it while at full draw? Lol. You look way to relaxed


Good thing I'm out west...Really only spot-and-stalk out here


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## ElMuercielago (May 26, 2020)

nuts&bolts said:


> So, I gotta assume you have NEVER EVER seen any How's My Form photos on ArcheryTalk.
> 
> So, let's take a look at what you do, with no shoes on, and let's go even further.
> 
> If you spread your legs even farther apart, maybe you will be more stable (do the opposite...get shoes on, and get legs sooo close, your ankles are touching). Yes, ankles TOUCHING. I would never NEVER shoot with my ankles touching. WHY would I want to have my ANKLES TOUCHING? Well, for ONE photo, let's see what happens, when you have legs sooo close, your ankles are touching. THIS is to demonstrate something about your draw length.


WHEW...Thank you so much for taking your time. I have since looked at other How's My Form posts in more depth and I solemnly swear I will never ask for critique without shoes again. 

Here are some updated photos...

Feet Together. Standing against the door. 








Target at shoulder height aka arrow roughly level








Normal Shot target slightly below shoulder. Release hand close to level. 








Shot with thumb-release...which I am hoping to switch to. Just got it today but feels loads better than the wrist release. Preliminary groups were better as well.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Dump the SUPER WIDE feet spread apart. You do this cuz the draw length is simply too long, cuz with ankles together and string touching nose, you cannot lift your bow hand HIGH enough to get the arrow level. If you were to get the bow hand HIGH enough to get the arrow level, you would have to lean backwards sooo much more, than you would fall over backwards.










The idea with the EDGE of the door, is to get your RIGHT armpit TOUCHING the EDGE of the door.
Nice cheat, putting the EDGE of the door behind you. Defeats the purpose of the vertical EDGE of the door.
So, slide FORWARDS so your right armpit touches the EDGE of the door.
Then lean FORWARDS, so the right hip (top of jeans) also touches the EDGE of the door at the same time.
Get the right side of your thigh to also touch the EDGE of the door at the same time armpit touches EDGE of door.
Get right ankle (side of ankle) to also touch the EDGE of the door at the same time armpit touches EDGE of the door.

THEN, lift the bow hand HIGHER and HIGHER, until the arrow is DEAD LEVEL. Yes, string will run BEHIND tip of nose, cuz the draw length is just tooo long. I added the HEAVY red line, to connect RIGHT armpit to RIGHT ankle, to show you how much you are leaning backwards, to get the string to touch your nose.

DROP the draw length at LEAST 1/2-inch shorter, and the LEFT side armpit angle will increase to 90 degrees to your backbone. WHat's the big deal about leaning backwards anyways? You will shoot better.
HOW do you know? Cuz, I have helped thousands of newbies shoot better.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

THis is how much you need to LIFT the bow hand HIGHER, to get arrow to level.
BUT, if I do that, the string will run BEHIND the tip of my nose, if I have to stand up straight at the same time.
Exactly.


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