# Walk Back Tuning



## Ace8512

Hey, can anyone explain or recommend a site that explains walk back tuning. I've found articles, but they're confusing. Thanks


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## CAJUNBOWHNTR

First, welcome to AT. Second, there is a search feature on the tool bar above.If you check it out you will find lots of info on walk back tuning.Basically you hang a weight on the end of a string to make sure it's plumb.Shoot an arrow at 20 yds,then "walk back" to 30 yds and shoot the same 20 yd spot with your 20 yd pin.Then walk back to 40 yds and do the same.Your arrows will make a pattern down the string like this \ or this / or if your lucky they will line up parallel to the string. Move your rest in small amounts left or right until they line up on the string.Once your arrows hit in the same vertical plane adjust the sight windage so the arrows will center the striing.


Good luck
CB


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## ButchA

I recently did a "walkback tune" with my Reflex Highlander, because I was noticing some ever-so-slight cock vane contact (rippled vanes). It wasn't enough to disrupt arrow flight, but yet the cock vane would get rippled.

My error: I was assuming everything was good and set to go, ready to rock, etc... because my Magnus Stingers were hitting right with my field tips at 20 yards. So, I too read about walkback tuning and decided to double check my setup.

1) Take a roll of 2" wide masking tape and tape a straight line down your target. (I have the Block 4x4 as a target)

2) Use your 20 yard pin. Keep using the 20 yard pin regardless during the test.

3) Start at 20 yards to get "comfortable" and use a field tip arrow and shoot the center bullseye, covered up by the masking tape.

4) Move up to 10 yards with another field tip arrow and shoot again at the same bullseye and at same arrow.

5) Move back to 30 yards, and again use another field tip arrow and shoot again at the same bullseye.

With common field tips, you will see a pattern like this:
....................
.........*o*......... (10 yards)
....................
.........*o*......... (20 yards)
....................
.........*o*......... (30 yards)
....................

Looks good, doesn't it? Field tips don't really show much, but will show that you are setup nice, but not truely tuned for hunting.


6) Now take 3 more arrows tipped with broadheads that you will use and repeat the above test.

With broadheads, you might see a pattern like this.
_This shows the "centershot" to be ever-so-slightly off:_
....................
........*x*.......... (10 yards)
....................
.........*x*......... (20 yards)
....................
..........*x*........ (30 yards)
....................

This really showed me what was happening to my setup, my arrow flight, and the rippled cock vanes. Since I'm *LEFTY* I had to very carefully, very gently, just barely, nudge my NAP Quiktune 1000 prong rest in to the right (in towards the riser - remember, I'm lefty). Then I repeated the test again, and couldn't believe the results. I wish I could have snapped a digital photo of the 6 arrows I shot.... One arrow (broadhead) ripped one of the fletchings of the previous (field tip) arrow! Plus the "x" and "o" of the broadheads and field tips (in the above example) are all perfectly in a straight line. And more importantly, I am not getting rippled cock vanes anymore. The cock vane was just rubbing enough on the left side of the rest to cause a ripple, that's all.

I hope this example helps with walk back tuning. If I can do it and figure it out, anyone can! :teeth: :shade:

Butch A.


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## MHansel

As explained above, but here's what you want in the end:


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## Ace8512

Great! Those posts helped a lot. Thanks!


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## bfisher

Good explaination, Cajun. Now what do us old guys do that can't see the string? LOL. I guess I gotta use a bull rope with a briack hanging on the bottom. Just a laugh, buddy.


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## ButchA

Hey again... I just realize that after a while you can't go back and edit your posts!

Anyway, I noticed serious error in my post about moving my arrow rest. I meant to say move the arrow rest *LEFT* in towards the riser... I'm a lefty!! Moving it right, would move it away from the riser. Oops... sorry. :embara: 

Butch A.


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## ButchA

*Walkback tuning results*:
....................
........*x*.......... (10 yards)
....................
.........*x*......... (20 yards)
....................
..........*x*........ (30 yards)
....................
Left handed - move rest LEFT
Right handed - move rest RIGHT.

*-----------OR-----------------*

....................
..........*x*......... (10 yards)
....................
.........*x*......... (20 yards)
....................
........*x*.......... (30 yards)
....................
Left handed - move rest RIGHT
Right handed - move rest LEFT.

Sorry for the confusion....:embara:


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## bassman409

I might be confused but I think the direction for the rest to move is the same for both left and right shooters?


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## SBills

bassman409 said:


> I might be confused but I think the direction for the rest to move is the same for both left and right shooters?


Same here. The rest movement should be the same as far as left and right. If you had mentioned moving it towards or away from the bow then the directions would be revered for a righty vs lefty.


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## nuts&bolts

Hang a weighted string from a nail on a target. 

Stick a round sticker on the target face so that the string splits the sticker. Use your existing 20-yd pin, step back 20-yards from the target and fire at the sticker. 

Don't worry about where the arrow hits. 

Walk straight back to 30 yds, and using the same 20-yd pin setting, 
fire an arrow at the sticker. 

Repeat at 35 yds and at 40 yds, using the 20-yd pin and firing at the sticker.

If your arrows look like this pattern " / " or “\”, 
then pick a direction and move your arrow rest 1/16th inch. 












If the pattern gets straighter (more vertical), then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction.












If the pattern gets more crooked, then adjust in the other direction.

Keep firing arrows and keep adjusting the arrow rest position until you get a vertical pattern of arrows.

Eventually, your arrows will hit in the target is a straight up and down line like this " | ". 












LOCK down the arrow rest setting. Your centershot is perfect.



But, your vertical pattern of arrows may not be hitting the string. 

The vertical pattern of arrows may be on one side of the string.
Let’s say the arrows are say 6-inches to the left of the weighted string.










Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch. Repeat the test. Fire arrows at least 3 distances, and see if the vertical pattern of arrows gets closer to the string.

If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting closer to the string, then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction. If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting farther away, then adjust in the other direction.

Eventually, you will have a vertical pattern of arrows right on top of the string.

Lock down the windage and lock down the arrow rest. Windage and center shot are now perfect.


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## BowhunterNJ

B&N, how does this account for nocking point issues? 

So we have our centershot perfect and our sights windage perfect, but our arrows might still be porpoising, no?

Just playing devil's advocate.

I've never walked back tuned, but thinking about trying it tonight.


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## FSL4ever

Walkback tuning doesn't tell you anything about nocking point - you need to paper tune with a bareshaft to get that set. According to the Hoyt "Arrow Tuning & Maintenance Guide" and Rick Stonebreaker's "Tuning for Tens," you can shoot at anywhere from 2 to 6 yards from the paper

Why bare shaft? So the vanes don't straighten out the shaft and you can see how it's really flying. (Of course, shooting a fletched arrow from 2 or 3 yards doesn't give the vanes *much* time to work, but it gives them some.)

If you see a bullet hole or a horizontal tear, your nock point is good. Otherwise (i.e., any vertical component in the tear), move your nock in the direction the arrow is pointing when it went through the paper - arrow point low, move the nock point down, etc.

Now I have a question: I shoot a Hoyt Accutec with fingers and a plunger button. What is the most efficient way to tune centershot (CS) and plunger tension? Stonebreaker seems to reccommend paper tuning for CS and shaft stiffness with the a hard plunger set to place the bareshaft in the mechanical center of the bow. That is, aligning the bareshaft with the string travel path. After the bow weight and shaft stiffness are matched and CS set (no or minimal horizontal tear), then he sets the CS to "1/2 shaft out" (in the usual way) and tunes by grouping size with fletched shafts solely by varying plunger stiffness to get the smallest group.

Hoyt's Tuning guide is more complex, but basically seems to advocate bareshaft group tuning to "rough" set up CS and nock height, followed by paper tuning with fletched arrows to get a "finer" tune. Hoyt then has an additional set of "Micro-" and "Fine Tuning" steps.

I'm soooo confused!


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## ButchA

Here's an image I grabbed from Easton's tuning guide....

I followed this advice and simply reversed the broadhead shot diagrams, since I'm lefty.


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## nuts&bolts

FSL4ever said:


> Walkback tuning doesn't tell you anything about nocking point - you need to paper tune with a bareshaft to get that set. According to the Hoyt "Arrow Tuning & Maintenance Guide" and Rick Stonebreaker's "Tuning for Tens," you can shoot at anywhere from 2 to 6 yards from the paper
> 
> Why bare shaft? So the vanes don't straighten out the shaft and you can see how it's really flying. (Of course, shooting a fletched arrow from 2 or 3 yards doesn't give the vanes *much* time to work, but it gives them some.)
> 
> If you see a bullet hole or a horizontal tear, your nock point is good. Otherwise (i.e., any vertical component in the tear), move your nock in the direction the arrow is pointing when it went through the paper - arrow point low, move the nock point down, etc.
> 
> Now I have a question: I shoot a Hoyt Accutec with fingers and a plunger button. What is the most efficient way to tune centershot (CS) and plunger tension? Stonebreaker seems to reccommend paper tuning for CS and shaft stiffness with the a hard plunger set to place the bareshaft in the mechanical center of the bow. That is, aligning the bareshaft with the string travel path. After the bow weight and shaft stiffness are matched and CS set (no or minimal horizontal tear), then he sets the CS to "1/2 shaft out" (in the usual way) and tunes by grouping size with fletched shafts solely by varying plunger stiffness to get the smallest group.
> 
> Hoyt's Tuning guide is more complex, but basically seems to advocate bareshaft group tuning to "rough" set up CS and nock height, followed by paper tuning with fletched arrows to get a "finer" tune. Hoyt then has an additional set of "Micro-" and "Fine Tuning" steps.
> 
> I'm soooo confused!



Not that confusing.

Walk back tuning for centershot.
Fire a bareshaft to set nock point elevation.

I prefer to shoot a bareshaft into a foam target
or out at the range,
and adjust nock point until I get perfectly level
penetration when firing at a bullseye
set at the shooter's shoulder height.

The key is to launch the bareshaft from a level starting position.

If the bareshaft launches from a level launching position,
and the bareshaft sticks into the target also perfectly
level, then we have level flight,
and the nocking point is in the right place.

In terms of setting the plunger correctly
for centershot,
we are dealing with two issues.

Centershot for a fingers shooter
is setting the horizontal offset away from the riser
by means of rotating the plunger barrel
clockwise to move the arrow shaft away from the riser (RH shooter)
or
rotating the plunger barrel counter clockwise
to move the arrow shaft closer to the riser (RH shooter).

I agree with Rick,
about the stiff plunger (insert a wooden match stick to temporarily replace the spring) or just set the spring tension to maximum.

Perform walk back tuning to set your centershot.

When walkback tuning is complete,
then you use the spring tension in the plunger button
to group tune your arrows.

You have three options to fine tune for dynamic spine
when you are a fingers shooter.

1) You can use the plunger spring tension to find the best dampening
settin to get the best groups.

2) You can adjust the draw weight of the bow

3) You can customize the tip weight of your arrows
by adding weight to the glue in target point nibb points
or grinding away the nibb points for custom target point weight.

Any of these three methods will adjust the dynamic spine response of the arrow so you can group tune for the tightest groups for you and your bow.


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## FSL4ever

Nuts&Bolts:

Thanks! That's a great, clear post. I am right in the middle of a complete re-tune so I'll follow your advice and get back to the board with my results. So far I've set the nock height with the bareshaft and set CS with Rick's procedure. I will then check and fine-tune the CS with a walk-back test tomorrow (if it doesn't rain on me). I plan to keep the plunger stiff (using a matchstick) for this part of the setup to eliminate plunger compensation from the equation. (Is that appropriate?)

Next I'll tune the plunger tension using group tuning. Do you think I need to re-set the CS to "half shaft out" before I tune plunger tension? That seems to be what Rick is saying; Hoyt's Tuning guide also indicates starting from a "half shaft out" CS.

A follow-up question, since I just re-read JAVI's (and others') most excellent posts on Cam Timing: Do I need to be concerned with my set-up? My tiller is matched top & bottom and I can't feel any bumps or oddities in the draw force. 

The problem is that I am not sure what cams are on my 2000 Accutec (build XN), so I don't know where to start. The letoff is not adjustible, but the draw length is, in 1/2 inch increments from 25.5 to 29 inches. The cams (which match in shape - they aren't wheels) are marked "C2T" and "C2B" (top and bottom, respectively). My ATA is 40 inches and brace height to grip throat is 7-7/8 inches; the Hoyt sticker on the limbs states that the string length is 54.5 inches and the b.c. is 34.5 inches, which is what I shoot. However, Hoyt's Tuning Chart for the 2000 Accutec with XT2000 limbs (the only year they made that combo) doesn't list ANY cam/module combination that matches the sticker. Should I care???


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## FSL4ever

Ahhhh, sorry. After finding another great post by JAVI, I now see that I have #2 Command Cams, low (65%) letoff, and am using the 25.5 inch draw length hole "A" - thus "2-A" module/cam # on the Hoyt chart. And, because I'm old and can't read in dim light, I originally mis-read the limb sticker -- it IS correct, showing a 35.5 inch bus cable spec.

So, if I have to adjust timing, I know where to start. My ATA appears to be 5/8 inch long and my brace height is 3/8 inch high (maybe - where does Hoyt measure from?). Will being "out of spec" in BH and ATA affect my other tuning?


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## Gerry50

nuts&bolts said:


> But, your vertical pattern of arrows may not be hitting the string.
> 
> The vertical pattern of arrows may be on one side of the string.
> Let’s say the arrows are say 6-inches to the left of the weighted string.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch. Repeat the test. Fire arrows at least 3 distances, and see if the vertical pattern of arrows gets closer to the string.
> 
> If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting closer to the string, then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction. If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting farther away, then adjust in the other direction.
> 
> Eventually, you will have a vertical pattern of arrows right on top of the string.
> 
> Lock down the windage and lock down the arrow rest. Windage and center shot are now perfect.


 I'm a little confused it is impossible for a bow to be set up so all the arrows miss by the same amount to one side over different distances.


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## nuts&bolts

Gerry50 said:


> I,m a little confused it is impossible for a bow to be set up so all the arrows miss by the same amount to one side over different distances.



Gerry50:

I am not that great of an artist.

My first version of the picture,
I just used one mark(small triangle) per distance,
so I showed just one arrow mark for the short distance,
one arrow mark for the medium distance
and one arrow mark for the long distance shot.

Then, folks looked at my drawings "literally"
and assumed that walk back tuning was only for expert shooters,
who could get the arrow to hit the hanging string
from 20 yds, 40 yds and 60 yds.


I explained that walk back tuning is for beginner shooters
and intermediate shooters and expert shooters.

I explained that if you are not sure that firing one arrow
at 20 yds gives you a good indication, then fire a group of arrows
at 20 yds, and look at the center of the group of arrows
(center of mass).

Then, I explained, shoot a group of arrows at a longer distance
(say 30 yds).

Then, I explained shoot a group of arrows at a even longer distance
(say 40 yds).

Then, draw a circle around the 20 yd group of arrows,
and mark the center of the circle.

Then, draw a circle around the 30 yd group of arrows,
and mark the center of the 30 yd circle of arrows.

Then, draw a circle around the 40 yd group of arrows,
and mark the center of the 40 yd circle of arrows.

When the center of the 20 yd circle
and the center of the 30 yd circle
and the center of the 40 yd circle of arrows

(regardless of the size of the grouping)
(the circle of arrows for an expert shooter might be very small)
(the circle of arrows for a beginning shooter might be very large)

as long as the center of the 20 yd circle
is directly above the center of the 30 yd circle
and is also directly above the center of the 40 yd circle,


then the centershot is set correctly
for the beginning level shooter, for the intermediate level shooter
and for the expert level shooter.

So, my drawing is not "drawn to scale", that's all.

Trying to explain that walk back tuning can work for every shooter,
and not just the expert shooters.


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## Gerry50

> Pick a direction to adjust your sight ring windage. Adjust the sight ring windage 1/16th of an inch. Repeat the test. Fire arrows at least 3 distances, and see if the vertical pattern of arrows gets closer to the string.
> 
> If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting closer to the string, then that is great. Keep adjusting in that direction. If the vertical pattern of arrows is getting farther away, then adjust in the other direction.
> 
> Eventually, you will have a vertical pattern of arrows right on top of the string.
> 
> Lock down the windage and lock down the arrow rest. Windage and center shot are now perfect


This is the part i'm refering to. You have set centreshot then you say adjust your sight ring windage to move the vertical pattern of arrows if you do this surely you would end up back where you started with a pattern like this / please correct me if i'm wrong.


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## JAVI

Gerry50 said:


> This is the part i'm refering to. You have set centreshot then you say adjust your sight ring windage to move the vertical pattern of arrows if you do this surely you would end up back where you started with a pattern like this / please correct me if i'm wrong.


Simple method…

Adjust your rest to recommended center-shot or eyeball it… don’t really matter..

Now adjust your sight pin for 15 or 20 yards and the windage reasonably close… it don’t really matter except you don’t want to shoot over or miss the target butt. Use only that one pin for the whole deal... the idea is to see the arrows fall down the target face in a pattern as you walk back..

Now put you a dot or X on a paper plate or piece of cardboard; anything really that you can stick close to the top of the Butt…

Step back to about 15 yards or so… and making sure you hold the bow sight level… fling an arrow at that dot or X… make a note of where it is… and leave the arrow there… 

Step back 5 more yards and repeat… continue to step back in 5 yard increments ‘till you run out of arrows or target butt… or miss the butt…

Now if your pattern looks like this / move your rest a tad to the left… and repeat the process until the pattern looks like this | …. If you see you are gonna miss the butt ‘cause you moved the rest so far, then stop reset your windage on the sight… and start over…

If the fall pattern looks like this \ then move the rest to the right… 

When you’re done and the arrows all line up in a nice neat vertical line… set your sight… and start group tuning at long range…


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## OverMyHead

*Clarify!*

If you are setting your sight, you "chase" the arrows with the sight pins.
In other words, if your arrows are shooting right, move the sight to the right.

When walk back tuning for center shot, Do you do the same thing with the rest??? I'm reading contradictory approaches in this thread.

In other words, do you "chase the arrows" with the rest, the same way you chase the arrows with the sight? Only minor movements, of course, on the rest.


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## Redbarron06

*Missing somthing*

 Maybe I missed something on this thread but I have a flaw with this system of tuning the way it has been explained.

If the sights of the bow are not already dialed in then you could be getting false indications of tune for the bow. I will use rifles for example. If your scope is one inch off at 100 yards then it will be 2 inches off at 200, 4 at 400 and on out.

This would also be the same for a bow. It the sight is hitting 1 inch to the left at 20 then it will hit wider at 25-30-35 and on out. This is why I never really consider my 20yd pin truley dialed in until I have adjusted windage at 50 or more. If you are holding the bow straight up and down (not taking wind into account) the arrow should never go anywhere but down if the windage is set tue


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## Arrroman

The devil is in the details.

The correct spine arrow will hit the same vertical line at all distances,
while the incorrect spine arrow will not.

Trying to chase perfection with an improperly tuned bow and the wrong spine arrow is like wiping your backside with the back of your hand.

If you want success do it right.

Set the bow up the way it was designed.

Correct the brace height, axle to axle length, and cam timing. And shoot the correct spine arrow for the bow.

If you did your homework the sight pins, arrow, and arrowrest will be real close to a straight line when veiwed from the shooters perspective, and the bow will also shoot in a straight line at all distances.

Good luck tuning! >>>------------>


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## Spotshooter2

> If you are setting your sight, you "chase" the arrows with the sight pins.
> In other words, if your arrows are shooting right, move the sight to the right.
> 
> When walk back tuning for center shot, Do you do the same thing with the rest??? I'm reading contradictory approaches in this thread.
> 
> In other words, do you "chase the arrows" with the rest, the same way you chase the arrows with the sight? Only minor movements, of course,


 Long shot chases short shot. For and example if your line runs like this for a right hander / . The top of the line is your 20 yard shot and the bottom being 50 yards. What you do is the 50 yard mark you chase the rest to the 20 yard mark, so you would be moving the arrow rest in towards the bow.


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## Deezlin

bassman409 said:


> I might be confused but I think the direction for the rest to move is the same for both left and right shooters?


I am left handed too. Yes, you are correct. If the arrows are falling to the left, you want to move the rest, RIGHT. If the arrows are falling to the right you want to move the rest, LEFT.

The best way to walk back is to set a bulleye on the target high. Then sight in on the bulleye at 20 yards. Stick an arrow out of the bulleye and hang a plumb bob from the arrow. Shoot a couple of arrows at the 30 and 40 yards. This will tell you how the arrows are drifting. Then move your rest. I wait until I am getting vertical drop in relation to the plumb bob and then I adjust my sight left or right. Usually I try to sight in the left right windage at 40 yards. Of course, you want to do this tuning in calm conditions.


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## Deezlin

Redbarron06 said:


> Maybe I missed something on this thread but I have a flaw with this system of tuning the way it has been explained.
> 
> If the sights of the bow are not already dialed in then you could be getting false indications of tune for the bow. I will use rifles for example. If your scope is one inch off at 100 yards then it will be 2 inches off at 200, 4 at 400 and on out.
> 
> This would also be the same for a bow. It the sight is hitting 1 inch to the left at 20 then it will hit wider at 25-30-35 and on out. This is why I never really consider my 20yd pin truley dialed in until I have adjusted windage at 50 or more. If you are holding the bow straight up and down (not taking wind into account) the arrow should never go anywhere but down if the windage is set tue


Yes, you are correct about the rifle. But the bow is a different matter. With a rifle you only have one plane to worry about the sight is always directly over the barrel and the path of the bullet is aways vertical and in-line with the center of the barrel.

With a bow you have two planes the arrow path plane and the sight plane. That is why, I don't bother too much with the sight plane until I have the arrow path plane vertical. 

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

Assuming we have a proper setup and proper spined and tuned arrows. I initially start by sighting in on a 20 yard bulleye. Then I step back to the 30 and my arrows are 2" left. Then I go to the 40 yards and they are 4" left. 

OK, I move the rest to the right, say a 1/32" Now, I shoot the 20 yards and I am an inch right. I shoot the 30 yards and I am an inch right. I shoot the 40 yards and I am an inch right of the plumb line. The arrow path plane is now vertical.

So, now I move my sight so I zero in to the right. This should then line up the vertical plane of the arrow path and the sight together.

Now, if I shoot the bow again, all the arrow should stay on the vertical line.


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## JAVI

Y'all make this way more difficult than it needs to be... :wink: 

Walk back tuning is simply aligning the arrow rest to the path of the string. 
The object being to shoot the arrow as straight as possible in the vertical plane. 

It is somewhat like the rifle/scope analogy if you think of it as aligning the scope (rest) to the bore (string path)…. The bow sight is then aligned to this vertical plane.


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## x-cutter

Paper tuning acomplishes the same thing in less time. Walk back tuning is for people thqat havea lot of time and like to guess at what is wrong and the solution. If your arrow is papertuned enough to let the vanes correct it to a bullet hole at the shortest distance you are going to shoot then the only thing that can make it hit left to right is an unlevel sight, wind or you aiming it there. Dont make it hard on yourself


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## stehawk

Ace8512 said:


> Hey, can anyone explain or recommend a site that explains walk back tuning. I've found articles, but they're confusing. Thanks



From reading all the posts on this thread I can understand why. Carefully read the posts by Nuts & Bolts, Javi, Deezlin, and ButherA. THey've given you all the answers to what its all about.:wink:


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## swvoss

*Who's side are you on?*

I read my way through this topic because I am having great target arrow groups and thunderheads flying low and to the left with my brand new Diamond Victory at 68 lbs, trophy taker drop away, carbon express 30" arrows. I intend to try walk back tuning but have one comment. If I shoot 5 arrows with broadheads on them at ten yards at the same spot with the same pin, I doubt I will have 5 to shoot at 20 and 30. Even with my "baseball slider" arrow flight I would expect to, at a minimum, remove a few fletchings. Just thought I would have some fun taking a jab at all the archery expertise out there.:wink: 

I do wonder why some of my "identical" arrows with "identical" thunderheads on them that match the weight of my target tips seem to fly so much different and not all the same. I have 2 of 6 that fly pretty good and 4 of 6 that seem to fly as a major league slider. 

I have been told to switch to expandables to fix the problem but before I commit that atrocity, I will try moving the rest and see if I get some improvement.


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## x-cutter

I will bet if you went and shot it through paper you would see high right tear. Correct it and your broadheads will fly a little more like your field points. Or, do what I do. I can never completely eliminate the tear so just sight the braodheads in and forget about the field points during hunting season.


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## Arrroman

Perhaps it would be easier to look upon "walkback tuning" as a proof of whether or not you are using the correct spine arrow for the bow.

Good luck tuning! >>>------------>


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## stehawk

Arrroman said:


> Perhaps it would be easier to look upon "walkback tuning" as a proof of whether or not you are using the correct spine arrow for the bow.
> 
> Good luck tuning! >>>------------>




Sorry but that doens't fly.:wink: Walk back tuning sets/adjust your center shot. Nuff said. 

If everyone wants to get broadheads to fly great--- tune with a bare shaft with broadheads until your arrow goes straight. Then your field points and broadheads fly the same and also fly great. :darkbeer: Moreover, there'll be no need for walk back tuning.:wink:


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## Arrroman

I have never been able to get an underspine arrow to hit the same vertical line at 10-20-30-40-50yards.

And few people want to strip the fletching off a perfectly good arrow to do a bareshaft tune.

Papertune only helps if you are certain that you are not torqueing the bow, or are using a Hooter-Shooter to hold the bow.

On most properly tuned bows, shooting the correct spine arrows, the sight pins, rest, and the arrow will all line up real close to the centerline of the bow just as GOD intended.

Good luck tuning!

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>


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## stehawk

Arrroman said:


> I have never been able to get an underspine arrow to hit the same vertical line at 10-20-30-40-50yards.
> 
> And few people want to strip the fletching off a perfectly good arrow to do a bareshaft tune.
> 
> Papertune only helps if you are certain that you are not torqueing the bow, or are using a Hooter-Shooter to hold the bow.
> 
> On most properly tuned bows, shooting the correct spine arrows, the sight pins, rest, and the arrow will all line up real close to the centerline of the bow just as GOD intended.
> 
> Good luck tuning!
> Good luck hunting! >>>------------>


Agreed! Underspined arrows will not tune properly. Now, lets say the arrows are of correct spine. The whole purpose of walk back tuning is to make sure your bows center shot is tuned/adjusted properly. :wink:


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## x-cutter

And..........Paper tuning accomplishes the same thing with out a bunch of walking and guessing. Centershot and arrow spine are not the only things to cause tuning problems and without paper tuning you have no basis to know when you make a change in something how it has been affected.
For example: I was shooting a 1" left tear I cound't get rid of.
Typical solution: Arrow is too weak(Not even close) move center shot
Solution found through paper tuning: Pressing my face to hard into the string at anchor causing string oscillation: made slight adjustment in anchor

Bet you'll never see that in a bow tuning guide

The only point I am trying bring across is that their are usually a alot of things that contribute to tuning issues and if you dont use paper tuning as your primary you will have a very difficult time figuring out all these hidden problems and in the days of short axle to axle, low brace heights, and high letoffs there are a lot more issues out there than just arrow spine and centershot. I have always said that if your bow wont shoot a stiff arrow there is a problem in the nock travel in the bow and if you take the time to fix and discover what is causing the problem, your bow will shoot every arrow better and you wont be putting a band-aid on the problem with a weaker arrow


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## JAVI

x-cutter said:


> And..........Paper tuning accomplishes the same thing with out a bunch of walking and guessing. Centershot and arrow spine are not the only things to cause tuning problems and without paper tuning you have no basis to know when you make a change in something how it has been affected.
> For example: I was shooting a 1" left tear I cound't get rid of.
> Typical solution: Arrow is too weak(Not even close) move center shot
> Solution found through paper tuning: Pressing my face to hard into the string at anchor causing string oscillation: made slight adjustment in anchor
> 
> Bet you'll never see that in a bow tuning guide
> 
> It's in my book....:wink:
> 
> The only point I am trying bring across is that their are usually a alot of things that contribute to tuning issues and if you dont use paper tuning as your primary you will have a very difficult time figuring out all these hidden problems and in the days of short axle to axle, low brace heights, and high letoffs there are a lot more issues out there than just arrow spine and centershot. I have always said that if your bow wont shoot a stiff arrow there is a problem in the nock travel in the bow and if you take the time to fix and discover what is causing the problem, your bow will shoot every arrow better and you wont be putting a band-aid on the problem with a weaker arrow



All true...


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## stehawk

x-cutter said:


> And..........Paper tuning accomplishes the same thing with out a bunch of walking and guessing. Centershot and arrow spine are not the only things to cause tuning problems and without paper tuning you have no basis to know when you make a change in something how it has been affected.
> For example: I was shooting a 1" left tear I cound't get rid of.
> Typical solution: Arrow is too weak(Not even close) move center shot
> Solution found through paper tuning: Pressing my face to hard into the string at anchor causing string oscillation: made slight adjustment in anchor
> 
> Bet you'll never see that in a bow tuning guide
> 
> The only point I am trying bring across is that their are usually a alot of things that contribute to tuning issues and if you dont use paper tuning as your primary you will have a very difficult time figuring out all these hidden problems and in the days of short axle to axle, low brace heights, and high letoffs there are a lot more issues out there than just arrow spine and centershot. I have always said that if your bow wont shoot a stiff arrow there is a problem in the nock travel in the bow and if you take the time to fix and discover what is causing the problem, your bow will shoot every arrow better and you wont be putting a band-aid on the problem with a weaker arrow



Agreed, but paper tuning is only a starting point.:wink: There are more ways to skin a cat than one. I haven't shot through paper for years now. I don't walk back tune. I don't use a square or laser either. Paper tuning has never gotten my bows tuned to my satisfaction. My first use of paper tuning was 21 years ago. I will not go back to paper tuning because I feel its a waste of time. Anyway, to each his own. Have a great day. Semper Fi, Steve.


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## pyroarch57

Getting Centre Shot

Did you ever wonder why your arrows hit right on at 20 yards, but as you move further back, the left/right impact of your arrows changes, moving more off centre, the further you move away from the target ???? 

Chances are good you do not have the centre-shot set-up on your bow properly. The following procedure will correct this problem.

For best results this should be done 
either indoors or in very calm conditions outdoors.

Using black tape, put a 2 foot long vertical line, about 1 inch wide on a shooting butt 


Stand about 5 yards from the butt and shoot at the vertical line until you are certain you are hitting it dead centre. 


Now, move back to about 25 or 30 yards at least and with the same sight pin or setting, shoot at the vertical line again. 


If your arrow is hitting to the left of the line, move your arrow rest to the right until you are hitting the line. (reverse if impact is to the right) 


Now go back to 5 yards and try to hit the line again. If it’s not dead centre, move your sight pin until impact is right on. 


Now, move back to about 25 or 30 yards and with the same sight pin or setting, shoot at the vertical line again. 


If your arrow is hitting to the left of the line, move your arrow rest to the right until you are hitting the line. (reverse if impact is to the right) 


Keep repeating steps 5 – 7 until the arrow impact is dead on vertically at both the 5 yard setting and the 30 yard setting without moving your sight pin left or right. 

When you have achieved this….you will have true centre shot. With a moveable sight, you should be able to shoot at 5 or 100 yards without adjusting the left/right of your sight pin.


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## Hook Em

stehawk said:


> Agreed, but paper tuning is only a starting point.:wink: There are more ways to skin a cat than one. I haven't shot through paper for years now. I don't walk back tune. I don't use a square or laser either. Paper tuning has never gotten my bows tuned to my satisfaction. My first use of paper tuning was 21 years ago. I will not go back to paper tuning because I feel its a waste of time. Anyway, to each his own. Have a great day. Semper Fi, Steve.



And then there is my bow...which WON'T paper tune no matter what I try!


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## Arrroman

An awful lot of bows will shoot straight at 15-20yards with an underspine arrow.

Then, when the shooter gets serious, he screws broadheads on and finds out they won't fly with target points. Or the arrows won't hit the same line at extended distances.

Shoot blunt tipped arrows at cardboard boxes at 80-100yards and you will see whether or not your arrows fly straight enough for broadheads.

The mistake that most archers will make most often is choosing too light of a spine arrow for their bow.

Good luck tuning!

Good luck hunting! >>>------------>


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## JAVI

Actually all bows will paper tune at a given distance, what sometimes won't paper tune is the archer...:wink:


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## Hook Em

JAVI said:


> Actually all bows will paper tune at a given distance, what sometimes won't paper tune is the archer...:wink:


In this case, it would be the archer and all the bow techs at his shop! Maybe it is because it is a Hoyt!


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## JAVI

Hook Em said:


> In this case, it would be the archer and all the bow techs at his shop! Maybe it is because it is a Hoyt!


The brand doesn't really matter...

If the bow is even close to being tuned, the arrow spine is close and there is nothing mechanically wrong it will shoot a bullet hole.

I don't put much emphasis on paper, or walk-back or line tuning, I use them individually or together to get a rough tune before group tuning...


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## Hook Em

The only way to get a bullet hole with my bow is to move the rest so far out of center shot it looks dumb. And I have tried different arrows at different lengths. My bow might not be perfectly tuned, but it is very close.


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## JAVI

Hook Em said:


> The only way to get a bullet hole with my bow is to move the rest so far out of center shot it looks dumb. And I have tried different arrows at different lengths. My bow might not be perfectly tuned, but it is very close.


Find a shop with a Hooter Shooter and take the archer out of the mix...:wink: If the bow cannot be tuned to shoot a bullet hole with a HS, then you have a mechanical issue which should be easily found.


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## Ace8512

*Wow*

Archery Talk is the best. This was my first post ever, and look at all the replies. Thanks for all the help everyone!


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## TX Bowhunter

JAVI said:


> Actually all bows will paper tune at a given distance, what sometimes won't paper tune is the archer...:wink:


Been there done that .....:wink: 

A wise man once told me that if you set up 14 paper tuners in a row and shot thru all of them at the same time from a distance of say 20-25 yrds. Some of them would be perfect bullet holes and some wouldn't hmmmmmm
Wonder who is creative enough to have done that :wink: :wink:


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## x-cutter

That really depends on the shooter and the tune I guess.


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## CWG

This is actually a good thread and deserves a bump.

There was an analagy about a rifle, and if you're using a scope the same thing applies.
The bullet flies along the vertical hair. If the scope is mounted wrong -_canted_ ever so slightly (assuming you hold the vert hair plumb) the bullets will land just like the arrows in a walk back if the rest is incorrect. Sure, we're talking 100, 200, 300 yards, but the principal is the same.


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## Cleaner

GREAT THREAD EVERY ONE!
Thanks for the solid information!


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## Pete731

Good stuff X-Cutter. Thanks for your input!


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## rogueworrior

*.*

WOW lots of reading, I can't wait until my bow comes on jan 2nd:tongue: 

Thanks for the info.


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## Dodgedude

OverMyHead said:


> If you are setting your sight, you "chase" the arrows with the sight pins.
> In other words, if your arrows are shooting right, move the sight to the right.
> 
> When walk back tuning for center shot, Do you do the same thing with the rest??? I'm reading contradictory approaches in this thread.
> 
> In other words, do you "chase the arrows" with the rest, the same way you chase the arrows with the sight? Only minor movements, of course, on the rest.



No

For rest adjustments, go opposite. The key to this whole thing is that the farther you are from the target, any error you have is amplified. I walkback tune with 2 targets and shoot at 5 yd intervals until I run out of arrows, or target.

Rest tuning and sight tuning are 2 separate yet related things. Its possible to set the windage of an arrow rest, using a sight that is not fine tuned. It doesnt work the other way around though. The important part is to use the same pin on the same exact spot each arrow. That's the only way to get the ' / ' or ' \ ' pattern you are looking for.

Once you get to ' | ' , then you can adjust your sight so that your focus point and the point of impact are the same.


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## sj_lutz

What a great thread! Thanks to all who have taken the time to spell this out. I used these procedures today and they worked out very well; started out with a \ when all was said and done, a nice straight vertical line.

Happy New Year to all!!!


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## archerm3

Remember, if you paper tune it has to be at multiple distances as well. The arrow is oscillating and if you catch it when it just happens to be parallet to the shot plane it may not be 10 inches in front of where the paper tune was conducted.

Also, torquing your bow hand can completely change your tuning characteristics, so if its straight on a Hooter, it may be completely out of tune in your hands.


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## SonnyThomas

*Walk back tuning*

This walk back tuning sounds awfully much like the French Tuning method. Either is time consuming experience, but very fruitful for bows that are hard to fix for right or left hand arrow "drift" at longer ranges.


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## carteranderson

*Bump*

on an awesome thread!

Tried this for the first time today and presto, 1.5 inch grouping at 30 yds. For me this is outstanding. I used to be happy with 4-4.5 inch groups. Might have helped that I changed from WB to drop away (thanks to monofletch !) rest...

Thanks guys!
Carter


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## nysbuckwacker

Just went though and read this whole thread.Made sense on alot of it.O.k. Most of it was on setting the center shot.Nothing was really said about setting the nock set doing the same thing except with horizonal line.Martin shows it on their website in the 2001-2003 bow manuals under finetuning.It seems it would be a better way to set the nock height than papertuning.I have papertuned and found alot of the time it helps in flecthing problems.But when I adjusted the nock to doing what Easton says in their tuning guide I get worse grouping.I did what Martin said on my Hoyts and have 1 1/2 inch groups at 40 yds. with broadheads.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about doing it this way.It worked for me,maybe it work for others.


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## Prodigyoutdoors

bump


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## MonzaRacer

*Tuning,,,*

OK for what its worth I agree and disagree with some points on the uses of these tuning methods.
I was told to use paper for the nock point tuning to make sure the arrow is flying straight from the bow.
I had a buddy with a Bowtech Guardian that couldnt be tuned by others. We repapertuned it, got him some good arrows, as I felt his were just plain junk(wobbled when spun on my finger, very crooked). 
It shot good after that(and we made sure the bow was set right ( I hate working on Bowtechs) and then we di Nuts&bolts walkback (re:modified french tuning)tuning.
After much work we finally figure out the rest was machined wrong and it was falling sideways.
Blew me away but the angled fall was actually causeing bad arrow flight.
He went up to local shop about mile up road, bought a Ripchord rest, I think I now understand timing a dropaway right on a BT.
He now has a bow that will shoot 6 arrows in a 1.5 to 2in group at 40 yrds(yes he is that good but knows NOTHING about tuning almost as little as me but between what my dealer taught me and Javi and N&B I thinkI did a good albeit long tuning session.
And no I wont give up the name of the F'ed up rest. He is going to try and get a refund.


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## strayarrow

*walk back*

When I posted this same ?, duda provided me with this post whcih was great:

http://www.archeryfix.com/Walkbacktuning.htm

hope it helps.


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## addicted2elk

bump.....stumbled across this thread today. great stuff in here. 

checked out my bow at 10, 20, and 30 yards today. didn't go to 40 because i don't have a 40 yd. deep backyard.....anyway, i've got a slight adjustment to the left to make on my rest since i get the \ line. question i have is whether or not this could possibly be a combination of my rest being out of alignment and my arrow being a bit too weak. i shoot a switchback set at 63#, 28" DL w/ a release and shoot 28" arrows which are gold tip exp. hunters w/ 125 grain points. could this arrow be a little too weak for my bow and somewhat compound my problem?

many thanks for the above information. great stuff that helped me solve my head-scratching problem.


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## Chromie

addicted2elk said:


> bump.....stumbled across this thread today. great stuff in here.
> 
> checked out my bow at 10, 20, and 30 yards today. didn't go to 40 because i don't have a 40 yd. deep backyard.....anyway, i've got a slight adjustment to the left to make on my rest since i get the \ line. question i have is whether or not this could possibly be a combination of my rest being out of alignment and my arrow being a bit too weak. i shoot a switchback set at 63#, 28" DL w/ a release and shoot 28" arrows which are gold tip exp. hunters w/ 125 grain points. could this arrow be a little too weak for my bow and somewhat compound my problem?
> 
> many thanks for the above information. great stuff that helped me solve my head-scratching problem.


you could try lighter points to determine if the spine has anything to do with it. what spine arrows do you have?


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## bfisher

OK, Expedition Hunters, but which ones. There are three different spines. You should probably be using the 5575.


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## addicted2elk

sorry to leave that out. gt exp. hunters, 5575 (.400 spine) cut to 28". according to GT, i'm borderline between the 5575 and 7595, so i went with the 5575.


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## bfisher

As already mentioned you could try lighter points, but using an educated guess I think your arrows are acting stiff. I often get arrows planing right when I bare shaft tune and just from experience I know my arrows are not weak. This is spelled out at the bottom of page 7 in Easton's Tuning Guide, but few people ever pick up on it.

You can move your rest to the left as usual for the walk-back tune. And then go to broadhead tuning. If your arrows take off to the right then just try adding one turn to the limbs and see what happens. If it gets worse then take two turns off to check. This should show you how close the spine is so at least you'd know whether you need stiffer arrows or just need to shoot a couple pounds lighter or heavier. A couple pounds won't mean much if this is a hunting setup and is certainly cheaper than new arrows.


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## addicted2elk

problem solved. i moved the rest 1/16" left. i shot 3 different groups at 10, 20, and 30 yards at lunch today, and i got good vertical alignment in all three groups. size of those groups improved also. i went from 3" to 4" at 30 yds. to probably 1.5". maybe that answers the arrow spine question too, since i'm grouping better as a result of this exercise.


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## dille7

did the walk back first time ever 10,20 and30 dead on 40 and 50 about 1" off to the left


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## dille7

nysbuckwacker said:


> Just went though and read this whole thread.Made sense on alot of it.O.k. Most of it was on setting the center shot.Nothing was really said about setting the nock set doing the same thing except with horizonal line.Martin shows it on their website in the 2001-2003 bow manuals under finetuning.It seems it would be a better way to set the nock height than papertuning.I have papertuned and found alot of the time it helps in flecthing problems.But when I adjusted the nock to doing what Easton says in their tuning guide I get worse grouping.I did what Martin said on my Hoyts and have 1 1/2 inch groups at 40 yds. with broadheads.
> Please correct me if I'm wrong about doing it this way.It worked for me,maybe it work for others.


still have any fletchings left on those arrows


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## MTELKHUNTER

i have one quick question on the bare shaft tunning. am i wrong or if you shoot bare shaft compaired to fletched arrows you will have two diffrent spines? the ones with fletchings would have more or less spine then the ones with no fletchings just like going from 100 gn tips to 125 gn tips right? the ones with more weight on tip will be softer spine i believe. so wouldnt the arrows with more weight on the nock end of arrow have more weight then the ones with no fletchings changing the spine of the arrow? if this makes any sence and is corect then paper tuning without fletchings seems pointless sence you will never be hunting or target shooting without fletchings right? any thoughts before i rip off perfectly good fletchings??


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## x-cutter

It has a minor difference but I use electrical tape on the shaft to make up the weight of the vanes. Bare shaft tuning is not that necessary unless you want broadheads and fieldpoints to hit the same. The Broadhead tipped shaft will act similar to a bare shaft. Tuning is nothing more than tuning the power stroke of the bow down the center of the shaft


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## larrymcc

only thing I cant figure is why everyone insists on using the same pin. This takes a bigger target. If the pins are in a vertical line as they should be, just use the 20 pin at 20, 30 pin at 30 and 40 pin at 40. If they are dead on at 20, 2" left at 30 and 4" left at 40, then you know what the deal is. Am I missing something? I'm pretty new at this.


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## Boogels

JAVI said:


> Y'all make this way more difficult than it needs to be... :wink:
> 
> Walk back tuning is simply aligning the arrow rest to the path of the string.
> The object being to shoot the arrow as straight as possible in the vertical plane.
> 
> It is somewhat like the rifle/scope analogy if you think of it as aligning the scope (rest) to the bore (string path)…. The bow sight is then aligned to this vertical plane.


Can you explain to me why did I get a 15y left impact, 20y right and 30y right down the middle. By moving my sight a fraction right all distances was spot on.

My 2c. You can not seperate rest adustments from sight adjustments. Move only the one and it will influence how the arrow flies. Both have to be in the right spot to achieve optimal arrow flight.

Like my example, my rest was at the correct setting but the sight not.

So torque was introduced into the sytem via the sight, in this case, torque to the right. 

As a result the arrow was torqued from its optimal path to the right. Upon firing the drag on the fletching pulled the arrow tip from a slight right angle slightly over to the left, thus my left impact at 15y and then it corrected again to the right at 20y with a optimal and stable flight pattern at 30y. The arrow was fishtailing at ultra short distances not because centreshot was not set correct but because of a slight incorrect sight position.

I shoot rather stiff arrows. .300 spine 29" arrows 125gr tips on a 63# 28" setup. Maybe this is why im getting a different result than you.

So what you are saying and that is wat WB implies is when you torque your bow you can still determine the correct centreshot by setting the rest only no matter where your sight is. For argument sake set your sight as far left as it can go and you can still shoot an arrow straight from your bow the only thing that got to be in place is the rest right dead on centreshot?

You are better than me. I can not.


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## greenearchery11

So you follow your line with your rest.....I know this is an old post but am looking to do some in season tuning to get prepared for next year since it is unlikely i see a treestand this year.


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## strayarrow

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=377004

here's a link with a good description


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## SonnyThomas

If you read nuts&bolts of Archery you'll find where he gives "There is a little known secret called MODIFIED FRENCH TUNING (illustrated above) which does
what walk back tuning does, *but it is much MUCH easier to do.*

Well, Modified French tuning is a drawn out version of the much better short distance French tuning. 9 feet is used as in Modified French and standard French tuning. For the short distance you shoot from 30 yards, eliminating the middle distances. 9 feet, 10 feet, not much difference. So you sight in at 8, 9 or 10 feet and go back to 30 yards and your greatest error is immediately shown. You correct the rest and repeat the procedure until your arrow is dead on at 9 feet and dead on at 30 yards.

My last short distance French tune results. Bow shot dead on out to the longest distance 3D target, 50 yards. Bow shot great all year long this year for 3D, earning me several places and wins in club 3Ds and ASA state events, 3rd place in the State Championship. Worst finish this year, 4th.

When the shop was open I had these sheets made and on the target wall all the time. Those that came in loved it. Leveled horizontally they were used for sighting for distance back to 33 yards. Round circle bull's eye removed people had better results.


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