# HELP!! Me tune my bow and myself..



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

If it was the center shot your close targets would be out 1 side, and the longer targets out the other side.

3rd axis is a likely cause if it's the up, and downhill shots. Up hill would be out one side, while downhill was out the other.

Could also just be you. Like I told you before your subconscious can do crazy things to your shooting if you allow it. Or it could be one of a number of other little bad shooting habits, or form flaws.
Just got to stop over thinking it, and get back to shooting just because it's fun. You put a lot of undue pressure on yourself to perform well. I shot the whole first half of the season with my 3rd axis half a bubble off, and still managed to shoot high 20's every week except the week I shot 2 rivers.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

So are you shooting well, holding where you want and executing the shots properly on the up/downhill shots and the arrows are not going where you expect? 

Or are you basically unable to hold steady and execute clean shots when shooting at extreme angles?

If the first, look at the equipment The sight level and how you hold/back tension are the main things to examine.

If the second, practice, practice, practice the extreme angles. It'll likely be body alignment. Try different ways of balancing yourself and setting your foot position. Also learn to accept that you *will *be more unsteady at extreme angles than on flat ground and you must trust your "float" and execute the shot as best you can.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

BOWGOD said:


> If it was the center shot your close targets would be out 1 side, and the longer targets out the other side.
> 
> 3rd axis is a likely cause if it's the up, and downhill shots. Up hill would be out one side, while downhill was out the other.
> 
> ...


Well, here's the thing. I have no doubt that I play a factor in the whole thing. I know its not ALL the bow or sight, but I want to give myself the best chance I possibly can to go out and get a new PB before the year is out. It is crazy that I can't even match the 501 that I shot at AAA, which was only like my 4th or 5th shoot ever. I also know I do play mind games with myself in everything I do, but I find it hard to believe that mind games would make me shoot a 12 arrow group out right on a downhill. It's got to be either 3rd axis or my form. I just wish I could figure it out and start shooting half way decent. You said to start shooting for fun again. I do have fun every time I shoot and try not to let it frustrate me, but I KNOW I am capable of shooting much better than I have been, and would have a ton more fun if I did.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Stash said:


> So are you shooting well, holding where you want and executing the shots properly on the up/downhill shots and the arrows are not going where you expect?
> 
> Or are you basically unable to hold steady and execute clean shots when shooting at extreme angles?
> 
> ...


Well, I am FAR from a great shooter at this point, and this is my first year shooting field. That being said, I was holding decent yesterday and felt like 90% of my shots broke with the dot centered up. I was shooting decent groups, just not putting them where I wanted. I have never felt comfortable shooting down hills, and have no doubt I could learn to shoot them better, but I felt like the shots I was making were decent shots. As a note to both you and BG (something I forgot to resppond to about my mind games).. I intentionally did not take my binos and tried not to look at the arrows after I shot them. I just tried to make a good shot on every arrow, and felt like I was shooting decent, but the results were less than decent.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

*left, then right*

I think it's a little bit of everything going on here. Recommend you buy, beg or borrow the tools to set your 2nd and 3rd axis. Verify centershot with a walkback. Practice steep up and down every chance you get, and it will get better.

You may not like hearing the next part, but I also suspect you need a bow that is easier to shoot. I strongly feel that most target archers are better served with the longest ata and highest brace height the manufacturers are willing to make these days. Just relegated my AM35 to hunting bow status after 4 months behind the string. Loved the feel of the little bow, but need something different to shoot CONSISTENT scores. Blast away if you want; don't care a bit.


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## Rick9 (Jun 25, 2008)

Then get to the 50 yard slight (4 degree) uphill, shoot 8 arrows with a few on the left edge of the dot, and most of them out of the dot left. Follow that up with the 25 degree downhill, which I think is the steepest downhill on the course, 12 arrows right edge of the dot or out of the dot. Decided it had to be a 3rd axis problem. [/QUOTE]

This sounds like a 3rd axis problem - so I suggest doing a check / reset of 1, 2, 3rd axis and eliminating this from the equation.

Once the sight is OK, if you are consistently right shooting downhill, then I'd try these things:
- check to see if your shoulder / hip alignment is different when shooting downhill compared to shooting on the flat -- you might have to have someone watch you.
- check to see if you drift right when shooting downhill (sight, close eyes, etc). If you are drifting right then try opening your stance a bit.
- assuming you are right handed then check to see if your shot is as "strong" downhill as on the flat. You may be collapsing earlier in the shot and this would lead to shots going right.

Hope I've got this right - I'm left handed and sometimes mess up the translation. Anyway might help.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

It really sounds like your 3rd axis. 

Only other thing that I could recommend to you is to check your DL. If you are a little long it tends to make your anchor sloppy on uphill/downhill shots. 

Set your sight correctly first and see what happens. More than likely that is where your problem is.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks for the input so far guys. I think at the very least, it is a combination of 3rd axis issues and my form. Messing with the 3rd axis brought me closer, but the sight was all but maxxed out in 3rd axis adjustment. It looked REALLY goofy. There's no reason it should need to be as far off as it was. Guess maybe I will have to have somebody watch me shoot (BG??) and see if we can figure anything out.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

Could be a first axis problem just as much as it could be the third axis. I would do as others suggested and level up the sight. Then go from there to see if there is another culprit.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

golfingguy27 said:


> Thanks for the input so far guys. I think at the very least, it is a combination of 3rd axis issues and my form. Messing with the 3rd axis brought me closer, but the sight was all but maxxed out in 3rd axis adjustment. It looked REALLY goofy. There's no reason it should need to be as far off as it was. Guess maybe I will have to have somebody watch me shoot (BG??) and see if we can figure anything out.


I'm a little confused. If you have your 1st and 2nd set, then the 3rd should be in a fairly neutral position in it's adjustments. I it's all the way to one side then something else is amiss. 

Again, I'm about 95% sure it's a sight issue. Get it squared up and you should be good.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

I'm assuming you know that, on downhill shots, you simply draw like it's flat, then just bend at the waist. Don't move arms, anchor, or anything. Just bend at the waist. Repeat after me. Bend at the waist.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

TANC said:


> I'm assuming you know that, on downhill shots, you simply draw like it's flat, then just bend at the waist. Don't move arms, anchor, or anything. Just bend at the waist. Repeat after me. Bend at the waist.


I do know that, but I may have to focus more on executing it. I may have to go one day this week and spend some time on this target and see what I can figure out. Figures it would be target number 8, so pretty much half way through the half of the course. Anybody know a shortcut to #8 at Tuscarora? lol


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Draw length!*

Uphill will play he-- on you if your draw length is just a fraction to long! Down hill makes it easy to fold up in your form! Concentrate on keeping your form together, and making STRONG shots! Think about your release elbow, hand, and back! I'll bet your elbow is coming around on the down hill shots, causing your right misses? Shoot Strong, even if it feels like you are over emphasiseing/spelling??


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Sounds like a 3rd axis problem at full draw .

www.hamskeaarchery.com

Give this a try it works great . check out the video on you tube to .


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

redman said:


> Sounds like a 3rd axis problem at full draw .
> 
> www.hamskeaarchery.com
> 
> Give this a try it works great . check out the video on you tube to .



Yes, the "full draw" 3rd axis adjutment can really be a bugger. It was for me.

PM to you golfingguy27 about the hamskea Easy Third Axis Level.


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## bowjunkie (Sep 9, 2002)

2nd and 3rd axis leveling

Get a 4' level and place it on the side of the limbs. Set the 2nd axis then tilt the bow down and set the 3rd axis with the bubble on the 4'level. Tilt back and check it with the bow pointing up. It is cheap and simple. If this is still confusing PM me your phone # and I will talk you through it. 

Junkie


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

bowjunkie said:


> 2nd and 3rd axis leveling
> 
> Get a 4' level and place it on the side of the limbs. Set the 2nd axis then tilt the bow down and set the 3rd axis with the bubble on the 4'level. Tilt back and check it with the bow pointing up. It is cheap and simple. If this is still confusing PM me your phone # and I will talk you through it.
> 
> Junkie


I understand totally what you are saying, and I have done it before to get things close, but I think that is far from an accurate way of doing things. As the 4' level gets further from vertical, it's not going to read the same, and also if you twist or toque the bow as you lean it forward it will read wrong too. I have had my sight leveled before by Hinky, and I know it is/was very close to perfect then. I am thinking more and more that it is some sort of form flaw. I may just need to spend a bunch of time shooting hills and making sure I shoot a strong shot with good back tension every time. See if I can figure out anything I am doing to make the shots go right, and fix it.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

golfingguy27 said:


> I understand totally what you are saying, and I have done it before to get things close, but I think that is far from an accurate way of doing things. As the 4' level gets further from vertical, it's not going to read the same, and also if you twist or toque the bow as you lean it forward it will read wrong too. I have had my sight leveled before by Hinky, and I know it is/was very close to perfect then. I am thinking more and more that it is some sort of form flaw. I may just need to spend a bunch of time shooting hills and making sure I shoot a strong shot with good back tension every time. See if I can figure out anything I am doing to make the shots go right, and fix it.


It's one thing to have your 3rd axis set, but it's yet another to trust it AND use it. Can you see your level through your peep and if so, do you cant your bow sufficient to center the bubble no matter how "wrong" it may seem to be on a given target?


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## bowjunkie (Sep 9, 2002)

*3rd*

if you 3rd Axis is set you will be WWWWAAAYYYY to had to torque your bow enough to throw it out. it would take alot of torque. Try adding bow weight. Add weight to the side rods and tip weight. It will slow the bow movements down and the bow will stay plumb. if you are hitting left up hills then it could be the bottom of the bow slowly moving to the left while you pull through the shot. I had a problem with this at the hill. once I figured it out I was alot better off. I am in the process of learning about Stabilizers and how they help. Lots of good reading out there. Look for GRIV's article on it. it is a real eye opener. 

Junkie


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

pragmatic_lee said:


> It's one thing to have your 3rd axis set, but it's yet another to trust it AND use it. Can you see your level through your peep and if so, do you cant your bow sufficient to center the bubble no matter how "wrong" it may seem to be on a given target?


I can see my bubble and always center it as I aim and start pulling through the shot. The only thing I can't 100% confirm is wether or not it stays there until the arrow is entirely out of the bow. I have been aware of this issue for a long time now (since before the hill) and have been making a very concious effort to keep an eye on the bubble. It is one of the reasons I love my little 29mm scope so much. The level is so close to the dot in the sight picture, that it is almost hard NOT to look at it.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> I do know that, but I may have to focus more on executing it. I may have to go one day this week and spend some time on this target and see what I can figure out. Figures it would be target number 8, so pretty much half way through the half of the course. Anybody know a shortcut to #8 at Tuscarora? lol


Many take the shortcut of moving the arms/shoulders, rather than the whole upper body by bending at the waist. TANC is right.. pay close attention to this.

Some can draw on target on an up/downhill shot, but if you watch em, they bent into the target before drawing the bow. If you don't do this (bend into the target), it'll play hell with your form..


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

This is exactly why I love this forum, this sport, and the people involved in it. Since I posted the question, I have gotten input from many of you on here. The offer from a total stranger to mail me his Hamskea sight leveler so I can check the sight out that way, and a call 45 minutes ago from a rather high level archer who I have only met once and bought one of my S4's from (thanks Joe). Now I just need to get out to the course some time this week and figure out which parts of things help me solve the problem. If I get out to #8 to practice this week, and then don't 20 it Saturday at the corn shoot, somebody please put me out of my misery!


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> This is exactly why I love this forum, this sport, and the people involved in it. Since I posted the question, I have gotten input from many of you on here. The offer from a total stranger to mail me his Hamskea sight leveler so I can check the sight out that way, and a call 45 minutes ago from a rather high level archer who I have only met once and bought one of my S4's from (thanks Joe). Now I just need to get out to the course some time this week and figure out which parts of things help me solve the problem. If I get out to #8 to practice this week, and then don't 20 it Saturday at the corn shoot, somebody please put me out of my misery!


I just gave my .45 a workout.. she's good to go.. I'll be sure to pack it.. :zip:  :wink:

:cheers:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

IGluIt4U said:


> I just gave my .45 a workout.. she's good to go.. I'll be sure to pack it.. :zip:  :wink:
> 
> :cheers:


Oh, and I'll bring ya my Hamskea this weekend too.. :chortle:


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

IGluIt4U said:


> Oh, and I'll bring ya my Hamskea this weekend too.. :chortle:


Awesome.. I would like to try one. What do you think of it? I like the idea of being able to check at full draw and being able to check anywhere. I've been thinking about picking one up.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> Awesome.. I would like to try one. What do you think of it? I like the idea of being able to check at full draw and being able to check anywhere. I've been thinking about picking one up.


I really like it... it helps to have two, but one other little level and this and you can do it all..  :nod:


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

IGluIt4U said:


> I really like it... it helps to have two, but one other little level and this and you can do it all..  :nod:


yeah, I watched the youtube video where they used two. I think I will stick to one and another level! Or I could very easily make one if I ever take the time to stay after work one night and do it.


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