# saturday at AAA 14F/14A



## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

This Saturday 5/26/12 come out and shoot a 14 Field and 14 Animal round with us. ALL ACTIVE AND RETIRED MILITARY SHHOT FOR FREE. We want to show our gratitude to the men and women that have served our country.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

By the way it starts at *9am.*. Shotgun start.


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

See you Saturday morning 


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Have the coffee ready... :lol: :thumb:


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

I will be there for sure! Looking forward to it. Hoping to keep my head out of my butt for more than 7 targets this weekend after last weekend's 540 pace followed by a nuclear meltdown....


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

IGluIt4U said:


> Have the coffee ready... :lol: :thumb:


Our old buddy Jon MAY make an appearance :wink: 


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Kade said:


> Our old buddy Jon MAY make an appearance :wink:
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sweet! Drag his butt along!!


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

should be a fast day. I think we will be done by 12:30 unless some decide to shoot the field twice.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Good.. it's gonna be gettin hot tomorrow pm... lol :cheers:


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Bob was talking about shooting the animals after he and Raymon are done serving food.. I may shoot them again with him, or shoot the field half again. I want to start shooting our course more. It's my home course now, there's no reason for me to not know it like the back of my hand by the time States roll around. I've only shot it once this year.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Yep, knowin Kade and Jon, they'll want to shoot 28 plus the animal half.. lol


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

IGluIt4U said:


> Yep, knowin Kade and Jon, they'll want to shoot 28 plus the animal half.. lol


I would have shot another half, I don't think you and proelite06 were up to continuing though. You guys had a rough day :doh:

I had a good field round going. Was a couple points down on my desired pace. But that was a PB round in the making only needed to shoot a 271 half.

and for the record your 0-2 this year:wink:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

That we did lmao
It was too hot, had to go home and play with the water lol


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

I didn't think the temperature was all THAT terrible. I went out and shot the animals again with a group from AAA. I had a decent field half, would have liked to have shot the other half to see where I ended up. I just need to work on consistency, and a lot of that for me is mental. I start out shooting well, and then start doing the math and figuring out what pace I am on, and when I do that I am in trouble and usually go down hill from there. Need to learn to just shoot 1 target at a time, one arrow at a time, and not worry about the score, but for me that is easier said than done. I, unlike way too much of todays population, have an extremely hard time just shutting off the brain.. lol.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Kade said:


> I would have shot another half, I don't think you and proelite06 were up to continuing though. You guys had a rough day :doh:
> 
> I had a good field round going. Was a couple points down on my desired pace. But that was a PB round in the making only needed to shoot a 271 half.
> 
> and for the record your 0-2 this year:wink:


Well, after last weekend, and the struggle I had on the first few targets in the morning on the front half, I setup another sight/scope and shot it today. Cut my arrows down a bit, as they were too long and setup an old CR scope with a 4x lens, no clarifier and an orange dot (HUGE, about 1/8"). Shot in a 20 and 60 mark, plugged em in to AM and shot the front half (field targets this time). Shot respectably for the first time out with that setup, a 265 half, with one 17 and two 18s.. my 50 and 55 marks were a bit short, gotta tweak a tad more.. :nod:

Won't make the next 3 weekends of shooting, so.. I'll just have to try to put a couple of mid 260 halves together next time I get to a shoot.. :chortle: :chortle: :darkbeer:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

When he says huge dot, he's not kidding...that thing looks like a basketball in his housing...:chortle::chortle: Big improvement, Sticky!! You're puttin it together!!

I went ahead and placed a normal-sized dot in my circle to see if I can shoot a 260 something during a competition and not just during a practice--figure it will give me something a little more precise to shoot through. Just have to train the head not to freak out over it....haha


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

IGluIt4U said:


> Well, after last weekend, and the struggle I had on the first few targets in the morning on the front half, I setup another sight/scope and shot it today. Cut my arrows down a bit, as they were too long and setup an old CR scope with a 4x lens, no clarifier and an orange dot (HUGE, about 1/8"). Shot in a 20 and 60 mark, plugged em in to AM and shot the front half (field targets this time). Shot respectably for the first time out with that setup, a 265 half, with one 17 and two 18s.. my 50 and 55 marks were a bit short, gotta tweak a tad more.. :nod:
> 
> Won't make the next 3 weekends of shooting, so.. I'll just have to try to put a couple of mid 260 halves together next time I get to a shoot.. :chortle: :chortle: :darkbeer:


Glad to hear bud. That's what you should be shooting. Score wise anyway. 

I'm done playing with dots/fiber also. Just gonna stick with what I have been using for the past couple years. At least until I can find a bigger fiber post for my CBE housing. 

I have a good feeling I won't be shooting much over the next few weeks either. So I won't be pulling away much farther. I will just try and shoot a couple now and then at the house to try and keep the rust away enough to stay around a 270 half. :wink: 


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Kade said:


> Glad to hear bud. That's what you should be shooting. Score wise anyway.
> 
> I'm done playing with dots/fiber also. Just gonna stick with what I have been using for the past couple years. At least until I can find a bigger fiber post for my CBE housing.
> 
> ...


I SHOULD be able to shoot mid to upper 60 halves and if I don't break a 270 half this season I'm gonna kick myself.. again...  :wink:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

IGluIt4U said:


> I SHOULD be able to shoot mid to upper 60 halves and if I don't break a 270 half this season I'm gonna kick myself.. again...  :wink:



I know what you're sayin....I shot a 267 half a week ago, but it was at my home club and during practice.... Have not yet figured out how to put all the pieces together to do it when it counts...haha This archery stuff is HARD!


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

montigre said:


> I know what you're sayin....I shot a 267 half a week ago, but it was at my home club and during practice.... Have not yet figured out how to put all the pieces together to do it when it counts...haha This archery stuff is HARD!


If you can figure out, and bottle that fix, you'll be a rich girl. :amen:


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

montigre said:


> I know what you're sayin....I shot a 267 half a week ago, but it was at my home club and during practice.... Have not yet figured out how to put all the pieces together to do it when it counts...haha This archery stuff is HARD!


That's something that always baffles me. In field there isn't really any difference between "practice" and a "shoot". NONE. Your generally shooting the courses and with the same people. There is no Tourny pressure, let's face it the weekend shoots aren't any big pressure situation shoots. They are just like the practice round you shot during the week. 

If your not shooting the same scores during a "shoot" then your mentally getting in your own way for some reason. 


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Kade said:


> In field there isn't really any difference between "practice" and a "shoot". NONE. If your not shooting the same scores during a "shoot" then your mentally getting in your own way for some reason.


I agree with you and know this is a mental thing....but I have still not fully figured out why this "thing" is happening. It's really not "tournament pressure" that's throwing me off on the weekends (I know what that feels like...haha), it's something more insidious that's difficult to get a good grasp on.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Zombies.. you been wearin that secret anti-Zombie anklet lately? :noidea: :chortle: :chortle: :wink:

I shoot about the same, since I rarely practice, shoots are about the only time I shoot a full 28 targets, so it's all practice for me. My scores are consistent, but I know I can shoot better than low 260 halves... just gotta start out making good shots and quit bleedin unnecessary points and I'll be where I should be right now... :nod: Guess a little more practice time would help that but.. it is what it is..


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

Kade said:


> That's something that always baffles me. In field there isn't really any difference between "practice" and a "shoot". NONE. Your generally shooting the courses and with the same people. There is no Tourny pressure, let's face it the weekend shoots aren't any big pressure situation shoots. They are just like the practice round you shot during the week.
> 
> If your not shooting the same scores during a "shoot" then your mentally getting in your own way for some reason.
> 
> ...


Practice shooting and Tournament shooting are difficult at best to make similar. Generally your practice shooting goes much quicker with no breaks in momentum. IE eating lunch or whatever. Try as you may, practice will never as a whole be like tournaments. Many practice courses change vastly because of the time of day as well. Practice might be an evening sun whereas most tournaments are mornings. Most of us wont practice unless conditions are ideal, tournaments don't care what the conditions are,
; you shoot when you're told. Come on, Practice and the game? Must i get A I to clarify??


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

mag41vance said:


> Practice shooting and Tournament shooting are difficult at best to make similar. Generally your practice shooting goes much quicker with no breaks in momentum. IE eating lunch or whatever. Try as you may, practice will never as a whole be like tournaments. Many practice courses change vastly because of the time of day as well. Practice might be an evening sun whereas most tournaments are mornings. Most of us wont practice unless conditions are ideal, tournaments don't care what the conditions are,
> ; you shoot when you're told. Come on, Practice and the game? Must i get A I to clarify??


Actually my practice is about the same. I don't take breaks either time. Nationals, Mids, States and shoots like Insteada and the Hill there are no breaks anyway. If my group takes a break I rush them along or shoot if possible while they are breaking. If I can't shoot I don't sit and take a break. 

But when I shoot during practice I shoot at the same pace for the most part. It will obviously be a little faster as there aren't 3 or 4 people shooting with me but 99% of the time there is someone else and we don't shoot together we shoot one at a time so it's just like shooting in pairs. I score and go through my same routine in practice. But it's like Sticky said. It's all practice anyway. 

Yes practice ranges change but since I generally shoot them at the same time it makes no difference anyway. Conditions are conditions. If I'm going to shoot I don't care if it's super sunny, cold, hot, windy or raining. Heaven knows that you get all those conditions in the morning, mid day or in the evening. Each time has its ups and downs. If I practice on Sat or Sun morning it's the same as a "Tourny". If I practice mid day its still similar to a "Tourny" since we usually don't finish a "Tourny" till 2-4. If I shoot in the evening it's probably the most fickle time because of the messed up lighting. So none of that really matters one bit as far as I'm concerned. If they are issues then it's an excuse that someone is ready to use. 

I practice on the same courses that we shoot our "Tourny" rounds on. If anything my scores are generally higher then practice because I am more focused. 

Either way. It's all for fun and basically the same thing. It's the same number of arrows, the same targets, the same distances and the same shot. 


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

IGluIt4U said:


> Zombies.. you been wearin that secret anti-Zombie anklet lately? :noidea: :chortle: :chortle: :wink:


OMG, I totally forgot about the ANKLET...  

I only shoot a half about once per week, try to shoot a 28 on the weekend, and spend a lot of time camped out somewhere between 40-60 yds for a couple of hrs or so... I practice, and I really do practice smartly, but still no where near where I want to be or know I can be. Today I parked myself at the 60 and shot the blazes out of that thing until I wasn't gettin skeered off the target by that lil dot I put on my lens yesterday... I'm also noticing my arrows might be a little on the weak side--sitting here this evening trying to decide if I want to pull out the Medallions I have made up with a slightly stiffer spine or just turn down the limbs a smidge.... I put in the string time...what I need is an archery epiphany!!! :angel:


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

montigre said:


> OMG, I totally forgot about the ANKLET...
> 
> I only shoot a half about once per week, try to shoot a 28 on the weekend, and spend a lot of time camped out somewhere between 40-60 yds for a couple of hrs or so... I practice, and I really do practice smartly, but still no where near where I want to be or know I can be. Today I parked myself at the 60 and shot the blazes out of that thing until I wasn't gettin skeered off the target by that lil dot I put on my lens yesterday... I'm also noticing my arrows might be a little on the weak side--sitting here this evening trying to decide if I want to pull out the Medallions I have made up with a slightly stiffer spine or just turn down the limbs a smidge.... I put in the string time...what I need is an archery epiphany!!! :angel:


First thing that jumps out at me in your post is "but still no where near where I want to be or know I can be". You are where you are. Live with it and except it. Until you do your not going to get to where you want to be or know you can be. That is why your scores aren't matching up and where the pressure or blowing it is coming from. Your putting the pressure on yourself to achieve something you aren't capable of doing yet. Ya gotta crawl before you can walk. :wink: I know that none of us ever want to hear that and have a hard time excepting it but you have to stop trying to shoot to a certain level. Those that shoot the scores that we all envy aren't trying to shoot those scores. When I started playing around with the 40s I wasn't trying to shoot good scores. I know I can shoot those scores so I do. When I shot in the 20s I was trying to shoot 30s and 40s. There is a BIG difference.

Gotta question. How are your practice scores and tourny scores not matching up when your not really shooting practice rounds? One half a week isn't telling you what your scores are going to be. It's practice and your working on stuff. Your practice is and should also be the full 28 on the weekend. You need to practice like you play. GET OFF THE PRACTICE BALES. Spend that time on the course. Learn the game and practice shooting the types of shots your going to shoot during a shoot. Spending a couple hours shooting a half instead of a 40-60 yds will usually be MUCH more beneficial. Warm up with 20 arrows or so and then hit the course. Anything you are working on in your shot can be worked on while actually shooting a half. I do it all the time. :wink:

What is your arrow setup? Why do you think they are weak. I know I only shot them at 25 yds the other day but arrows don't group that tight if they aren't matched up good :wink:

I would get rid of that little dot. Your statement should confirm for you that it's too small. You have to be a VERY good aimer to shoot a little dot or fiber. Most people don't realize that they would probably shoot better with a bigger dot. I shoot a .29 and wish I could use a bigger fiber. I used to shoot a .40 flared out to about a .60 and loved it. It only covers the dot on the 80 and 70. But I can still see it. Everyone thinks for some reason "I gotta see what I am shooting" or "that big fiber gets in the way". If you can't see the dot guess why you can't....your pin is on top of it. make the shot :wink: If you look at 100 scope setups of top shooters I bet your going to have a really tough time finding more then about 20 with a little dot :wink: 

You don't need an epiphany, you need to get out of your own way.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

http://youtu.be/d29VsG35DQM


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## Mitchhunt (Jan 31, 2011)

Spoon13 said:


> http://youtu.be/d29VsG35DQM


Awesome!!!


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Kade said:


> First thing that jumps out at me in your post is "but still no where near where I want to be or know I can be". You are where you are. Live with it and except it. Until you do your not going to get to where you want to be or know you can be. That is why your scores aren't matching up and where the pressure or blowing it is coming from. Your putting the pressure on yourself to achieve something you aren't capable of doing yet. Ya gotta crawl before you can walk. :wink: I know that none of us ever want to hear that and have a hard time excepting it but you have to stop trying to shoot to a certain level. Those that shoot the scores that we all envy aren't trying to shoot those scores. When I started playing around with the 40s I wasn't trying to shoot good scores. I know I can shoot those scores so I do. When I shot in the 20s I was trying to shoot 30s and 40s. There is a BIG difference.
> 
> Gotta question. How are your practice scores and tourny scores not matching up when your not really shooting practice rounds? One half a week isn't telling you what your scores are going to be. It's practice and your working on stuff. Your practice is and should also be the full 28 on the weekend. You need to practice like you play. GET OFF THE PRACTICE BALES. Spend that time on the course. Learn the game and practice shooting the types of shots your going to shoot during a shoot. Spending a couple hours shooting a half instead of a 40-60 yds will usually be MUCH more beneficial. Warm up with 20 arrows or so and then hit the course. Anything you are working on in your shot can be worked on while actually shooting a half. I do it all the time. :wink:
> 
> ...


Kade, 
I don’t fully agree with you on this. I agree that my issues are stemming from my mind, but disagree on how they’re affecting my performance. 

When I studied martial arts, I learned that it was the desire of most practitioners to reach a state of mushin or empty mind—where the technique just occurs without any form of conscious through or interference in response to whatever situation presented itself. This mindset eventually overflowed into most aspects of the practitioner’s life, but I digress here….. However, in order to get to that point, it took a LOT of practice to perfect the forms, techniques, feelings of the art that was being learned. Initially, that practice entailed thinking about every minute aspect of the movements and working on it piece by piece until a certain level of comfort and confidence with the movements was established. As experience was gained, the conscious thinking started to become less and less and the separate pieces of the movements began to be molded into a single fluid reality that was becoming more of an internalized aspect of the practitioner. Finally, a fully trained practitioner would have eventually pretty much forgotten those early form exercises and could have their back turned with their hands in a cooler pulling out a cold one and effectively block a kick from someone from behind without a thought of the exchange ever entering their mind. That is mushin and that is the state most elite shooters have developed. Key word here is developed. It’s not something that just happens on its own and it is not something that is encoded in one’s genes.

Although I have been shooting for a few years now, I am still at the stage where I have to think through my shot process. Not every single piece of it, but there are several checks made along the way that allow me to get off a shot. I still have to practice some pieces individually while the corrections made become internalized as part of the eventual whole. Believe me, I do take it all with me when I shoot a half or a full round or just the bales. I do make corrections while shooting in competition or when shooting for practice and I really do not consciously differentiate between the two. 

Yes, everyone has to craw before walking, but by the same token, everyone has to perform routine self-evaluations and set goals for themselves, otherwise they will never cross the hurdles or make the necessary changes to improve. I have to look at the 267 half or the 300 54x 5-spot round I shot and evaluate why I cannot yet duplicate those efforts in a competition setting. If I just sit back and get all warm and fuzzy over the experience without analyzing what I am obviously doing differently in the two situations, how can I realistically expect to bridge that gap? I know I am capable; I have the cold hard proof. That 300 target is hanging on my archery room wall and I look at it almost daily. I’m just lacking knowledge of the key(s) that allow access to that portion of my psyche.

Regarding the arrows, they're spined okay...after re-evaluating the situation, I realized that I had not reset my peep height to accomodate shooting 36 arrows at 60 meters.... A novice mistake....I'm in training for the US Nat. Target competition in Ohio.... and have to balance it with field shooting for the rest of the month. As far as the dot goes, I really don't know much about them. I thought a smaller one would allow me to ease into using it more easily since when I had tried it before (when I first started shooting), it really made me freak out. I guess I can try a larger one to see if it works better now that I can see it as just a dot and not some monster wanting to take off my head. 


Spooner, 
You don’t have to stir the pot, buddy, but I did get quite a laugh from that video. Well played!!


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

montigre said:


> Spooner,
> You don’t have to stir the pot, buddy, but I did get quite a laugh from that video. Well played!!


Couldn't help myself. Glad you liked it though.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

It was quite timely...  :thumb:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

montigre said:


> I am still at the stage where I have to think through my shot process. Not every single piece of it, but there are several checks made along the way that allow me to get off a shot.


I think this is probably the most important phase of the learning curve in becoming a top archer. You need to have each step of your shot routine come naturally.. instinctively. I think too many focus on changing things to make them a better shooter, when in fact, the most important thing is to work out the inconsistencies in YOU, the Archer, not the equipment that you are using. The shot routine is the key, imo, and when you can just grab the bow, draw it back, focus on the dot and let er eat without thinking about each step of the way, you are almost there. 

Let's face it.. the mind is gonna wander, it's hard to stay 100% focused for 112 shots, but if the basic shot routine, from raising the bow to letting the arrow sail off, is instinctive, then you have a little gimme room to let your mind wander and still make a good shot. I know from recent shooting (and I haven't shot nearly enough this season yet), that when I make a bad shot and I know I made a bad shot, I will often just grab the next arrow, think of nothing but nailing the dot and let the arrow fly without even giving thought to the process, just staring down that dot and shooting the arrow at it.. and it works. Now, if I can do that every time, then I'll be where I should be.. 

I have 85% of that routine committed to memory and it's instinctive. I know it from bowhunting when you sometimes have only seconds to grab a bow and get the shot off and the same can apply to field.. you let your instincts take over and you just make the shot. I need to work on the other 15% and have been, partly aided by the fact that I have been shooting the same stuff (well, except for the occasional bow upgrade, but my last three, the Shadowcats and the S5 are similar and my hunting bows shoot the same cams too). I shoot the same release, sight, scope, lens, peep (tho I have made some experiments with that recently), finger sling, stabs, etc... I try to change nothing, if I can and other than the bow, it's only been arrows a couple seasons ago, cos I didn't like the bendy ACC's.. lol This allows me to stay more focused on what's most important... me and how I make each shot. :wink:

Kiss... develop a shot routine, stick to it, don't mess with constantly 'tweaking' it and learn it like pouring that first cup of coffee in the morning.. you can do it in your sleep... and when you got that down, you should be shooting lights out.. :nod:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

IGluIt4U said:


> I think this is probably the most important phase of the learning curve in becoming a top archer. You need to have each step of your shot routine come naturally.. instinctively. I think too many focus on changing things to make them a better shooter, when in fact, the most important thing is to work out the inconsistencies in YOU, the Archer, not the equipment that you are using. The shot routine is the key, imo, and when you can just grab the bow, draw it back, focus on the dot and let er eat without thinking about each step of the way, you are almost there.
> 
> Kiss... develop a shot routine, stick to it, don't mess with constantly 'tweaking' it and learn it like pouring that first cup of coffee in the morning.. you can do it in your sleep... and when you got that down, you should be shooting lights out.. :nod:



Now, this is something I can sink my teeth into. :wink: Aside from the basic set up of the new bow, all the equipment is the same that I was using last season. I had fallen into that group and was making too many little changes and tweaks last season to the equipment without a strong enough focus on myself, my form, and my routine. I resolved over the winter to change that and have been trying to really nail down the form and routine and can feel breaking through the current plateau is just within reach. Thanks.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

Monte.. I just tried to PM you, but your inbox is full.


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