# Ontario Bear Mandatory Bear Questionnaire



## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

Or what? hehehe

Haven't done one in years... management, my donkey!


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

Management is interesting...

Up in the north they just use the three s's.


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

shakyshot said:


> Management is interesting...



To say the least! :wink:


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

Just a heads up we had them call last year to a guy in my group.:darkbeer:


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

GenesisAlpha said:


> Just a heads up we had them call last year to a guy in my group.:darkbeer:


What did they say? Why didn't they call me? I know.... you don't know:mg:

I would be a more willing participant if they managed our resources properly....


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## Footed Shaft (Jul 10, 2002)

heheheh


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

They asked him if he understood it was in the regs and then sent him a questionaire to fill out.

I believe it is based on a trial program to see if they get enough returns not to make it a check station system. Kind of the same thing being used for turkey now and maybe soon for moose from what I read.

Gov. cutbacks hit all parts of the system and MNR has not missed the axe, nor have their workers. I guess it is easy to sit and look at it as a not doing a good job but in the same vein we do have good hunting in Ontario for big game and took 2 seconds and a stamp to do a small part.

Like I said just a heads up, as a coach and an activist I try to lead by example.

Didn't know it would be taken in a negative way.

Take care

Bob


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

I would love to see checkstations implemented in Ontario. They need to get serious about the management of our big game. Its rare I ever fill out and return my questionaires. I should but what are they gonna do? 
Even having a mandatory telephone reporting system if you have filled a big game tag would be a big step forward. Phone in, get an authorization #, write it on tag. Anyone caught without gets penalized. They need to know for sure how many game animals are taken and where. I'm still mad at what they have done to eradicate deer in my neck of the woods. So maybe I'm biased....


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

The system now is a checkable system. On the return it has an area to put your licence # and outdoor card number. When you buy your licence it is in the database when they do the returns from sales or from online systems. So they just run the numbers against the surveys and bingo who did report and who did not. Simple.

Rob you know me and my view is if we do not police ourselves then someone will get to do it for us...................ie gun registration. 

I am amazed that the the question here is "if I do not what are they going to do to me". My guess would be nothing legally.

What they will do is raise our licence fees to pay for systems to check with officers, check points and or mailed paper systems to assure they are getting the data they need.

You can now see they are using an online system for moose and deer returns as well as the mailed in one we all get each year. They did this to satisfy a few that forget or could care less about mailing data that could be collected and useful to understand herd size and harvest limits for future hunts. If it does not get the numbers they need then you will see the check points. I hear they get very touchy on ALL issue and include OPP's in the check points so better assure your travel vehicles and fishing gear is in order also.

I talked with the ministry last year and they are looking at check stations for bear to assure accurate counts on harvest. I can see the good reason behind it but at the same time if we do the returns with a good level of participation then we save the loaded on licence fees to pay for a policed system.

What are they going to do? My advice would be advanced standing in draws for those who send in the returns and a ding system for those who do not. 3 dings and you go to the penalty box for a year reguardless of pool you are in.

Rob you and I talked about the extended season last year in our area. It was not implemented although I went through all the feedback to the MNR and it was a landslide in favour of the 15 day extension. I agree, saw lots of deer up until 3 weeks ago. Where did they go? Maybe all the "Doe tags are having a huge affect". My guess is the 15 extra days would not have been a impact on deer that are not there anyway.

Everyone here should remember our creed as hunters..................we are the true stewards and conservationist in the woods, our job is to help with the propagation of game to assure future health of herds to guarantee future hunts for ourselves and the next generations. 

Sorry for the rant, but I enjoy my hunting lifestyle and a stamp and a walk to the mail box is a small ship on a big sea.

Bob


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

GenesisAlpha said:


> Gov. cutbacks hit all parts of the system and MNR has not missed the axe, nor have their workers. I guess it is easy to sit and look at it as a not doing a good job but in the same vein we do have good hunting in Ontario for big game and took 2 seconds and a stamp to do a small part.
> Bob



This is something that kills me too. The MNR isn't the only thing getting hit by cutbacks, have they taken a good look out into society lately? All kinds of people out of work and struggling but yet they raise the price of tags over and over. So now we supply them with millions in revenue from tags and yet they can't even supply us with a postage paid return envelop?

I used to fill out my surveys all the time and what happened? I lost one of my best weeks for bow hunting this year, to a new shotgun week. So they want me to believe that I should keep filling out the surveys so that it can benefit others? There were things on the table that were suppose to benefit bow hunters this year but none of them happened. We just lost in the long run, that's all!


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

I hear you Bob. It just seems that they don't take game management seriously here in ON. Especially our end of ON. I feel the 1 week shotgun hunt was a huge mistake and the proposed 15 day extension would be an even larger mistake. 
They have to allow some kind of control in the 'uhnunted' areas. Amherstburg, Lasalle, Kingsville and south Windsor. Those are the areas where car/deer collisions are skewering the numbers that are killing insurance companies. What good would it do to eradicate the deer where the hunters are getting it done? 
I can't buy a deer sighting down my way lately. I have seen the shotgun hunters pushing bushes that are absolutely off limits to hunting out my way. The owners are at work so the guys push the bush. I regarded these as deer sanctuaries with good escape cover. Not that week they wern't! 
I would love to see Ontario get pro-active with illegal hunting, wildlife law enforcement and micro-managing areas where numbers need to be thinned. I will mail in my questionaire this year for sure.
Why not make the questionaire mandatory and you can't buy a licence period unless it is mailed in? That would be a starin on resources as there will be too much work to do and too much info to process I bet but it would be info they need. 
I don't think the status quo is working. I hope they make that 1 week hunt 2 days again and hopefully make it a muzzleloader season at that. 
Just my $.02 in rant form.... hehe


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## JBRECKO (Jan 6, 2009)

We have been telling the mnr that there to many bears in nwo and the turn the other shoulder,because if they admitted to mistake that they originally made with the spring hunt closure then the money agenda from the anti groups.As far as us co-operating in surveys they are going to raise the price,close seasons based on non scientific proof anyway so why should i give them any of my time.When you have a bear prob and phone their bear wise prog they tell you not to feed the birds dont leave your garbage out blah blah,and when you tell them there is none of that they just repeat themselves.Take the gov. waste of money prog. and put the resources into something that will do some good.But it is now gov employees that will be out of work.They are also estimating bear numbers to the amount of calls they recieve on the bearwise,most of the people i know are fed up with the lack of help and dont even phone anymore just shoot the prob let it go and die somewhere.Its pretty sad when we are forced into this because the MNR has their head up their ass.Sorry for the rant but the MNR does that to me.


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

A little side bar Story;

Tonight I am going to a meeting on the big creek watershed, A polluted natural watershed that the Conservation authority wants to fix and look at possible public use........hence public input at this the second meeting.

I went to the first meeting where no facts on how polluted the waterway is and a lot of Blah blah on wish lists that can not even be looked at until studies are done. 

At that first meeting one of the local sportsman club elders who lives by the tribs of the big creek system stands to speak.............I think hey this guy is going to give him an education on the need for facts before we even look at use. WRONG! He stands up and complains about a hill of dirt near the river that the town put there and how it is not allowed and then about how the POND he wants to put on his own little private reserve has not been allowed by permit on his property! (Food.......Check..........Bedding area.........Check, note need water hole to bring and hold those deer on my property........check, check) I might add when I sat on the board at the club he was one of the folks that was against the turkey release because " why would I spend the money if I may not be able to hunt them". (NOt released on his property). Thank God his side and view lost the vote or we would have none in Essex now!

My point is we get what we put in..............if its all about "ME" then expect to get nothing return.

I am sorry but I am a say it how it is type of person and few like myself and others fought government by refusing to register guns in canada. Had everyone like the many who did register not held up the fight for this long we would not now be looking at the possible end to that stupidity. My point again,"YOU GET WHAT YOU PUT IN".

I sit here and smile (not) when I look at some of the mentality here sometimes............Blame MNR, Blame Ethnic Groups, Blame Native Canadians, but please do not point a finger at me and do not ask me to give back as I pay to just take.

Rob I agree the system is broke and not working to the best it could be and maybe it will take a harvest registry (Mandated and Enforced) of all the game you take to wake some people up.

Yep I am still mad about the spring bear hunt........but if we do not send in the surveys they have to go on less info which would give most this look,

65,000 bear licences sold......................5 surveys returned (Bobs silly group)....................= must have been a bad year and low bear population for low harvest. No dog in this fight so we leave the season the way it is and reduce harvest numbers.

Bob


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

I am not even sure where to start. 

Let me start by saying I have no intentions to attack GenesisAlpha. I appreciate the "heads up" about the manditory bear survey deadline. I wish it truly was manditory... I meant not harm or sarcasm towards you. Thanks.

I also wish that the MNR was staffed and funded properly.
I was self hunting bears before the spring season was ended. I am still P'Od about the whole situation. Really P'Od!

I think we all agree that the "management" has to get serious. How about setting up web polls and surveys online for us. How much can this cost? I can't believe that they charge extra for to order your licenses over the phone... What a rip off. Closing MNR offices is not the answer either.

I too have a friend in the north that was told by the MNR to shoot nuisance bears. Worse than that he was told to shoot then in the guts so he wouldn't have get rid of the carcass. The bear would drag it's self away and die.... UNBELIEVABLE!!! This is not management. I can't even imagine the level of frustration that the MNR feels.

Back on the survey. I was told by an CO that there were very few bears where I hunt. I was also told that the low numbers are because of low birth rates. They told me that very few sows have twins and never have triplets. I have seen countless triplets over the years. 

The bureaucrats are the ones to blame. Dumping craploads of money into stuff but never into the MNR. Why not just shut the MNR down and let us manage it? I have lots of ideas but not the resources.

Sorry if I offended you Bob, but there is no carrot at the end of the string for me to continue to support the "manditory" reports. If it makes you happy then by all means continue to support the reports... 

Chris


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## q2xlbowhunter (Dec 28, 2004)

The surveys wouldn't do any good anyway, they have all the info they need from all the nusiance bear calls, I have a couple buddies that live up sudbury way and one helps with the relocation of these bears and in the past few yrs the funds allocated for this has been spent buy the middle of june and after the money is gone they say shootem, they don't care if the meat spoils and the hide rots, shoot em is their answer, they know exactly where all the bears are, another instance we were up moose hunting last yr north of thunder bay and while at a gas station we met a grade school teacher that told us the kids were not allowed to go out for recess because there are bears on the schoolyard, they have relocated some and shot some and they still come, look at all the licence revenue they are missing out on, not to mention all the meat that is going to waste, bottom line the MNR made a mistake on the spring hunt and are too stuborn to admit it.


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

araz2114 said:


> I also wish that the MNR was staffed and funded properly.
> Chris


 Then where does the millions of dollars from our tags go? Because you sure don't see it spent anywhere else.  (have no idea where it goes, that's why I ask  )


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## onmedic (May 23, 2004)

i fill the stinking thing out every year. Every year i tell them to send me some postage or i'm not sending it again, but i still do. Two years in a row now, i get a letter, reminding me that its mandatory, each year i tell them that its not my fault that they lose it!
The thing is a complete farce. I've heard guys say they've seen all kinds of bears when they haven't, afraid that the hunt will be shut down. What kind of an agency relies on peoples feedback? just crazy. They have absolutely no idea how many bears are out there.
I haven't seen a sow with only one cub in years, always twins, heck we have more video of triplets tearing into baites in the last few years than anything.
Its a flippin joke!


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## hknight (Sep 18, 2007)

I would tell them I seen more bears this year while bow hunting for whitetails which was true on some nights. Do you think they will bring back the spring bear hunt that would not only control the bear population but also generate a lot of money? I don't think so! I believe their last count on the bear population in Ontario is around 80 to 100 thousand. What do you think? They say the deer population is around 450 thousand. Look at the map of Ontario the bears live in large part the top 2/3rds of Ontario with some population in the south. This is only my opinion but i think these numbers are crazy. I don't know about you but I saw more bears this entire year from spring on than i ever have in 25 years of hunting. They canceled the spring hunt over 10 years ago and the population they claim has gone up no more than 20 thousand bears. I think this is crazy!!!!! Oh yes I forgot make sure you fill out your bear hunting survey.


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

Chris, no offense taken. I always ask for proof or a good explanation on issues too. We need to make the system more accountable and we need our hands in it. I believe they called him as he had taken a bear the year before and we took it to the office in thunder bay for a border cross permit. Maybe a random call to because he did not send in the next year but did buy a permit.

I did not honestly know that the feelings on this would be so quick to anger but I do understand that things apear to be done without cause or reason. I would say that I do believe the input by us as a group is by far the one you would think that the MNR would work hard for our help on. Reason is we are front line and we have the most eyes in the woods to get information from.

I am mad as hell about the Spring Bear hunt, but I never did see a hunt in that time of year. Why am I mad? I am not happy about big guns in the woods when I am on the ground bow hunting for moose! Safety first Right!

Too many issues blurred by lack of information or greyed lines that allow the MNR to fester a charge where none would have been layed years ago. 

I do truly believe that if we do not come to the plate and do the small things, and yes we can grumble over a stamp but in the long run they will drag us kicking and screaming to where we pay more and get even less.

While I was looking at the new acts waiting to become law I see they are looking to open more seasons to Non-residents during bow season for deer in south/west Ontario...............that and more primitive firearm time out in our areas what will that do to herd size and all the prep and work to get a system of stands set up to hunt through the season. Like Rob said No place to hide and they are pushed out of the comfort zone.

At the same time we call the MNR to the carpet lets get on our reps who should be on top of this for us and reporting back. Most of all we have to be active............to not be makes us part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Bob


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