# Bow Building



## Richard Hopkins (Feb 20, 2010)

COOL :star:


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

I've got it roughed out and im waiting on the handle to dry! Im gonna put the backing on tonight and wait till tomorrow after church to shave the handle and rough out the knocks! The bow looks amazing lol...will post pics before i tiller it


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Congrats on the good start! I'd be happy to offer suggestions, but don't expect me to be Simon Cowel here. 

Mayybe leave the contest open until the end of the year? I think most people might be able to get one done between Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks. Heck, maybe even more than one !

Over on Primitive Archer they have a bow of the month contest. Everyone who posted a new bow is up, and then everyone votes on their favorite. Winner gets a page showing the bow in the bimonthly magazine (and a hat too I think). Maybe we could do something like that so it's not just me judging?


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

Im still looking for a board since its extremely hard to find good ones here in mexico but if there is a contest im in. By the end of the year i might have found a decent one. 

p.s. Is backing that important? I dont think I can do the wood glue in dry wall tape thing


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

It can be pretty important it basically just holds your bow together better so its helpful and can sometimes improve performance, depending on the type of backing (correct me if im wrong kegan) 

All you do it spread glue all on the back and then lay down the backing and smooth it out, its easy! Try not to get any bubbles too, i got one or two but i think its where i shaved it a little low there or something so ima try and get rid of them with my second layer

Just go to lowes and get a red oak board, Follow the guide on poor folk bows its simple and explains it good

I'll also post pics of mine from beginning to end lol


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

kegan said:


> Congrats on the good start! I'd be happy to offer suggestions, but don't expect me to be Simon Cowel here.
> 
> Mayybe leave the contest open until the end of the year? I think most people might be able to get one done between Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks. Heck, maybe even more than one !
> 
> Over on Primitive Archer they have a bow of the month contest. Everyone who posted a new bow is up, and then everyone votes on their favorite. Winner gets a page showing the bow in the bimonthly magazine (and a hat too I think). Maybe we could do something like that so it's not just me judging?


The monthly thing is a great idea kegan!! I'll come up with some kind of cheap gift for whoever wins? We can take turns between people because i cant afford that! LOL but who's in?? and kegan you cant win every month


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Need-a-bow- a backing is semi important. Like Dwill said, some backings, like wood, sinew, bamboo, or actual bow fiberglass, can increase the performance if used properly. Others, like the one used in poorfolksbows.com is jsut to make sure the bow doesn't break. 

*IF THE GRAIN IS STRAIGHT AND THE BOW IS WELL TILLERED, YOU NEED NO BACKING. BOWS BREAK BECAUSE SOMETHING IS WRONG. *

Most of my bows are selfbows, unbacked. Even the really heavy ones. I only use backings like cloth when there are cuts and I start hearing cracking. I only use sinew when I want to increase performance in a stressed bow design.

Maybe not a monthly thing, but perhaps we do one every three months perhaps? Give the few people who do build in the Young Archer's forum time to build some. As for prizes, I'm not sure how that would work as anyone under 18 would have to go through a moderator to give their address. Hmmm. Maybe we can think of something a little easier?


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## StevenD55 (Jun 20, 2010)

Cool.

Post Pics as you go.


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

kegan said:


> Need-a-bow- a backing is semi important. Like Dwill said, some backings, like wood, sinew, bamboo, or actual bow fiberglass, can increase the performance if used properly. Others, like the one used in poorfolksbows.com is jsut to make sure the bow doesn't break.
> 
> *IF THE GRAIN IS STRAIGHT AND THE BOW IS WELL TILLERED, YOU NEED NO BACKING. BOWS BREAK BECAUSE SOMETHING IS WRONG. *
> 
> ...


Yeah becase not everyone has time/supplies..and i didnt think about the whole under 18 thing..we can just highlight their bow and give a good congrats lol..

I backed my bow becacuse 1) the guide did 2) i noticed a small stress crack so i put glue in it and left it for 24 hours tied tight together and i figured backing would also help keep it from breaking

Steven: I'll post pics when done


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

It´d be cool to have a small prize. Even some crimp-on field tips or a few feathers. If we can get a moderator to hel out. Ive already got most of the tools like a rasp, files and an electric sander(im lazy). what other tools should I get together before I get my board? My parents will be going to texas this weekend so I can get some stuff I need


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Glue..all i have is two rasps, a tape measure, ruler, square, and my wood


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Need some clamps or weights


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

My building tools are:

Hatchet, drawknife, farrier's rasp, vixen file, wood file, hot plate, scraper, occasionally a heat gun or a pot of water for bending, and clamps. This is for me best selfbows. 

I have, however, built some real nice bows with just a hatchet and some files. I still like to use the hot plate to temper them, but I've never had any luck tempering red oak boards.

Dwill- I wasn't intending to try and be off putting by my comment. It's just that alot of folks who read Sam Harper's build along get the notion you HAVE to back your bow. I really wish the local Home Depot and Lowes hadn't stopped carrying red oak, becasuse I was intending to do a flatbow build along to show another simple bow people can make. Of course, the stores just oculdn't afford to keep them I guess .


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## Questie (Feb 7, 2010)

I've always kind of wanted to build my own bow. I think I'm gonna try that website, thanks for the link


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

Ill ask my dad to pick up a big bottle of glue while in Texas. Maybe I can get him to buy me some arrows(it doesnt hurt to ask). Can I just spray paint my bow or should I stain it?


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Need- Get Titebond II or Titebond III not the original...and you can spray it or stain it, it doesnt matter as far as I know.

Kegan- I didnt take any offense to your comment about the backinig, I know you don't have to. I just did to be a little more cautious about that crack in hope that it wouldnt break. and yes i did because his guide said too but mainly because it holds them together better (sometimes). 

Questie- Go for it. Im addicted already and haven't finished my first!!!


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

Maybe I can get my dad to get me a Lemonwood board because ive heard that its the best bow wood and Howard Hill used it on his bows. I already got a few clamps laying around. Im goin for #40 at 28 in. so its a little under #50 at my draw length. Anybody have any suggestions on aluminum arrows? I dont want wood anymore because the have a short life span, but dont know anything about arrow spine


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

I know nothing about lemonwood, cant help ya there buddy!  lol 

I shoot woods and they're as durable as aluminum in my opinion..i'll never shoot another arrow..but dont buy arrows untill you finish your bow because it may be off a lil...but i think the corrrect arrows with aluminum would be 1916's with a heavy tips or 2016's with a light tip for bows around #50.

Ask Viper1 off the traditional archery forum..he's smarter


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Lemonwood, degame, is normally from Cuba, but grows in much of South America (or used to). Here in the states we can't get it, thanks to stupid politicians and their trade embargo, but in Mexico you might be able to. Unfortunately, it is a far cry from the best bow wood and Hill used bamboo laminations for his own bows. It was just the best wood that was cheap and most readily available to folks. Treat it like you would mulberry, ie. don't expect miracles, it's just another wood ! Except hickory. Which is a freak of nature and a good piece is about as easy to break as... well, a tank.

Also, not all wood arrows are junk. Hardwoods make really tough arrows. Cedar is junk. Hickory arrows... well. Again, tank . Dwill's right though: we can't tell you. Especially not before your bow is done. What really matters is the amount of centershot your bow is. Normally, you'll find that arrows that would work for a recurve 10-15# lighter than your draw will work. 

As for spray painting your bow, you can. Here's the problem though. It's not a very solid finish. Because it's in an aeresol can, the paint is thinned and so there will be holes, tiny holes, in your coat of paint. Though it will look fine, your bow will be more at the mercy of the elements: temperature and moisture being big factors in how the bow reacts. Of course, that's probably something to worry about after your bows start getting better. Frankly, I don't even bother to be that concerned with all mine. It's just something to keep in mind down the road and not take for granted later.


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

Then I guess ill just wait on my hickory then. I also think a regular stained finish will be goin on my bow. Ive decided not to back my bow since it seems like more unecesary work. And I think Ill be looking into hickory arrows. Im stuck shoot at feed sacks filled with dried grass although Iv gotten a few pass thoughs so I might be buying a bag target soon. Any suggestion on where to buy feathers and field tips for my arrows and a string for my bow? I have no clue how to make one


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

I bought the 3riversarchery cedar arrows..they hold up well so far, i havent tested on a live animal yet, but they do tend to bend it you really nail something lol but to me they're easy to straighten so I dont care..they were only like 74.99 and broadheads are ALOT cheaper for woods like my 6 Magnus stingers 2 blade was 14 or 18 dollars  

3riversarchery is heaven for traditional bowhunters..you can get nearly everything there including wood

If you spray paint put a few layers of polyurithane(sp) over the paint and it will protect both the paint and bow wood from scratches, I actually plan to put a few layers over my stain. (correct me if I'm wrong kegan)


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

This will help you out for selecting arrows need-a-bow (and what is your name? or something we can call you besides "need-a-bow") 

http://www.3riversarchery.com/pdf/ArrowCharts.pdf


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Feed sacks are actually better targets then you realize. Just stuff them better! Old clothes, plastic, whatever you can get in there. I get pas throughs on an actual store bought target- they're far from perfect. Trust me.

Dwill- Holy smokes! $75 for cedar arrows? That's more than I pay for my carbons! My brother and I both used them but have had... LOTS... of breaks. Our bows run from 60# and up, and anything remotely hard resulted in a broken shaft.

Ok, now for finish. I'm starting to have trouble following what everyone is trying to do, so here's what I do:

I start with stain. Three coats, maybe four. Mostly for color, though it provides a tiny bit of help making the bow resistant to water. After stain, I apply three to four coats of spar urethane by hand. Thin coats. It's a pretty weak sufrace finish, as it chips more easily than paint, but it's easy to come by. Tru Oil is better. Anyway. On bows I know are going to be used in the rain, or with a sinew backed bow, I also rub a couple coats of wax on top of the finish. Wax is actually one of your best bets period. Repeated waxing are the best you can do, except for using a wood like ipe or Osage that don't mind moisture.


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

You can call me kevin or brian (have no clue why people think my name is brian but it stuck) and I cant open the chart but I think If I buy a fletching jig or get around to making my own like on Kegans website Ill try to get some hickory dowels or order some aluminum shafts. Is it bad to use overspined aluminum arrows? I know they wont flex but I think I can still be pretty acurate


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## muzzyman1212 (Mar 28, 2009)

I am in for the bow making contest


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

need-a-bow said:


> You can call me kevin or brian (have no clue why people think my name is brian but it stuck) and I cant open the chart but I think If I buy a fletching jig or get around to making my own like on Kegans website Ill try to get some hickory dowels or order some aluminum shafts. Is it bad to use overspined aluminum arrows? I know they wont flex but I think I can still be pretty acurate


Arrow spine needs to be correct..overspined is as bad as underspined and it wont be accurate.. go to 3rivers archery click on arrows/shafts at the top.. i think you can get aluminum shafts for like 35 bucks

arow making seems hard only because you have to get the right spine and idk how to have the correct spine (cough cough build along kegan cough cough)


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Kevin- with overspined arrows, just get heavier points. Problem solved 

Dwill- I cover some on my section on carbon arrows. If you google "how to make a spine tester" you should be able to find some build alongs. I built one from one of those. Really simple and easy. I just haven't messed with wood arrows in so long that I don't feel confident doing a build along... especially when I don't even have any shafts


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

Kegan- you should add an aluminum arrow section to your website. Its all thats thats really missing. And can I cut an arrow shelve on my bow if I I dont add a thicker grip?


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Kevin- In the carbon arrow section I discuss arrow spine in terms of deflection. A 300 carbon being 0.300" of deflection. Aluminum arrows are measured in the same deflection, you need only look up charts for them on the internet. Trust me, that's all there is. Besides, I don't use aluminums nearly enough to make time to do a aluminum arrow section, especially when a "wood arrows on the cheap" section would be more helpful.

Also, if your bow doesn't have a thick non bending grip you *CANNOT CUT* an arrow shelf. You can glue one on, but don't even think about cutting one. It's just toying with trouble. You wouldn't believe how terrifiying it is to have the grain splinter right at your hand when trying to make a D bow centershot like that.


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

I think Ill glue it on cause I had an accedent with a board today and still got splinters in my hand. and your right on the cheap wood arrows section


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

My bow didnt turn out that great...i gotta finish up tillering it but one limb is flexin right in the center a good bit so im tryin to weakin the tips and the other limb.. its only pullin bout 20 or less and I was goin for 35...and the limbs have a lil twist so yeah, total failure  

but oh well it was a learning experience and i'll do better on the next one..just shows i gotta take more time on my limbs but i was shootin it earlier may be a goofin off bow


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Pics after while


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

maybe you could even it out and give it to a younger shooter


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

I go it pretty much tillered...i think im just gonna keep it for fun


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Dwill- That's too bad, but I think about 90% of folks out there make their first bow a little too light. So don't sweat it!

I got some good news folks. Turns out the local Home Depot _does_ have some red oak. Which means I'll take a few dollars and get a board, and do a how-to build along for a simple, yet very effective, flatbow. It should only take a few days to get done, and the same goes for someone following the build along. 

The design I use for my bows should be a little easier to make close to what you want compared to poorfolksbows.com. That, and no backing!


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

I'll wait on you and follow your build along this time..i've already got another board


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Good plan, but how wide is your board? My build along will be a deep handled pyramid style flatbow with limbs 2" wide, which means you'll be using a 1x3, instead of the 1x2 Sam Harper uses.

Just a heads up if anyone wanted to get the board before hand. Oh, and straight grain!


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Its 1x2..but i'll just do it as that and follow everything else..

I put well over 100 shots through it today..never cracked or broke so were good  lol


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

A 1x2 is fine, but the tiller on your bow will be a little different, and your final draw weight will be a little lower. Given average oak density, I'm guessing you should expect around 30# or so. Which, all things considered, really isn't that bad at all.

Ok. So everyone's on the up, this week and next I'll be looking to get my truck inspected. Which means it probably won't be until the first or second week of November that I'm able to get this whole build along finished. I'm hoping to get it done sooner, because I intend to sell this bow for gas money, but I don't want to have to eat my words later.


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

kegan said:


> A 1x2 is fine, but the tiller on your bow will be a little different, and your final draw weight will be a little lower. Given average oak density, I'm guessing you should expect around 30# or so. Which, all things considered, really isn't that bad at all.
> 
> Ok. So everyone's on the up, this week and next I'll be looking to get my truck inspected. Which means it probably won't be until the first or second week of November that I'm able to get this whole build along finished. I'm hoping to get it done sooner, because I intend to sell this bow for gas money, but I don't want to have to eat my words later.


I may try another bow just using a bandsaw to rough it out and stuff instead of a rasp...and just try and do better on it. Im goin for #30 or #35... But i'll do your build along soon after.. How thick should my bow be Kegan? He's says 1/4" and thats what I did or its close to that anyways


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

1/4"...? Either you misread his build along, or you were destined to make a 15# bow form the start:mg:! Also, for now a bandsaw is a two sided sword. If you're looking to make a good bow with a 1x2... don't even attempt it. Seriously. If, however, you have a larger piece of lumber, it might serve to help narrow the wide limbs. At this point, you might want to just start looking for a good 1x3: it seems I've got a board!

Oh, I start at 1/2" thick over the entire limb. As you begin bending the limbs in tillering, you'll remoe wood from the inner two-thirds of the limb. It's a semi-pyramid bow, so it's easier to tiller, but tis way you can also keep the tips stiff.

But, just because fate likes to color me a liar, I wound up picking the board up last night. Also, seems I have a day off today. So unless something comes up, I'll be able to get a big chunk done from the build along today. Guess you won't have to wait a month:lol:


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

kegan said:


> *1/4"...? Either you misread his build along, or you were destined to make a 15# bow form the start:mg:! Also, for now a bandsaw is a two sided sword. If you're looking to make a good bow with a 1x2... don't even attempt it. Seriously. If, however, you have a larger piece of lumber, it might serve to help narrow the wide limbs. At this point, you might want to just start looking for a good 1x3: it seems I've got a board!*
> 
> Oh, I start at 1/2" thick over the entire limb. As you begin bending the limbs in tillering, you'll remoe wood from the inner two-thirds of the limb. It's a semi-pyramid bow, so it's easier to tiller, but tis way you can also keep the tips stiff.
> 
> But, just because fate likes to color me a liar, I wound up picking the board up last night. Also, seems I have a day off today. So unless something comes up, I'll be able to get a big chunk done from the build along today. Guess you won't have to wait a month:lol:


Okay considering I dont have a bandsaw I'll use my rasp again..but i'll make sure its 1/2" this go around..like I said I may start my bow today or tomorrow and stuff and just follow your guide later... Thanks for the help

Sams build along says 1/4"...tell me what you get from it Kegan heres the link: http://poorfolkbows.com/oak4.htm


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## muzzyman1212 (Mar 28, 2009)

what is a good limb width and girth for a 50-55# bow kegan


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

I was told Ill be getting mine this weekend so ill be able to get at it


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Dwill- the bow will be 1/4" on the edges, but thickker in the middle. Really confusing- ignore that and just make the limbs 1/2" thick and perfecly recatangular. Once you start building, round the corners and leave it at that.

Muzzy- for 55#, stay at 2" wide. I have no idea what you mean by girth, but for my build along the bow will start out 1/2" thick over the entire length of the limbs.

Don't worry guys. I'm having a few days hiccups with the truck inspection but there will be bow building build alongs very soon, I promise. If I don't make it clear and easy, I'll redo it until it's as good as it gets!


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## muzzyman1212 (Mar 28, 2009)

i meant thick sorry i couldn't think of the word at the moment


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

I may start on it tonight


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Muzzy- no worries, some folks have argued with me on terminology... for no other reason than they prefered using one word over the right one:lol:. Either way, start it at 1 /2" thick over the full length

Dwill- so far it looks like I'll get the bow done next week, or at least enough to put up on a build along. I'll start tillering within the next couple days.


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Your movin Kegan!! I didnt start..we had friends come over last night but I definatly know i'll start tonight..But im goin huntin in the mornin


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Ok, got some more done, have glue drying again. Head on over to my site and go to "First board Bow" for wht I have written so far. Photos might be up tomorrow, I know I'll have more written by then if nothing else. Of course, I'll also trying to solve my take down dilema, so hopefully I don't get too distracted.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

This one blew up on me. Phooey. Guess I was asking too much, or I'm too used to hickory. Oh well. I'm going to work on some hunting bows for a little while, sorry I won't be able to finish the build along for you all


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## Dwill (Aug 26, 2010)

Im sure a bow blowing up will happen to us all....


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Dwill said:


> Im sure a bow blowing up will happen to us all....


It does. Not something to worry about. I intended to take photos and go through why this one broke, but the truth is I was just asking way too much from a piece of low density red oak lumber. Had I gone for a lighter draw weight and or a shorter draw length, it would have been fine, I'm sure.

Of course, this just goes to show that if you can get your hands on hickory, you're off to a great head's start!


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## parkerd (Sep 30, 2010)

I have been reading this thread pratically every day and looking up all kinds of how to's and build alongs. But i have question i've looked at poor folks bows and was wondering if i did the same thing but with a piece of hickory would the bow be better.?? sorry im really new to this want to soak up as much info as i can.

Thanks,Parker


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

I dont really know much but im pretty sure you can make the limbs thinner since hickory is denser than oak


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

parkerd said:


> i've looked at poor folks bows and was wondering if i did the same thing but with a piece of hickory would the bow be better.??


In short: yes. Hickory is denser than red oak, and also alot stronger in tension. SO LONG AS THE BOW IS KEPT VERY DRY, the bow will be superior in that it will be easier to reach bow weights of 40-50#, less likely to break in the limbs, and have less set. Just make sure it's really dry!


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

how do you make sure its really dry?


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, there are several ways that you can learn to tell, but they require time and experience. You need to watch the wood to see how heavy a board feels. Even hickory should feel 'light' as a 6' 1x2 when it's actually dry. Also, watch early set. If the bow starts to remain bent after unstringing when you just begin to bend it, then it's way, WAY too wet. Lastly, when you work the wood it should respond well to files and rasps. An edged tool like a knife or drawknife should have a very tough time removing wood, but a file should remove the wood cleanly and without issue.


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