# Sky Archery is now a part of Belcher Bows!



## vermonster13 (Sep 18, 2004)

Sky will be taken off the back burner finally and put back out there. Too cool.


----------



## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

vermonster13 said:


> Sky will be taken off the back burner finally and put back out there. Too cool.


Do you have a good source for the information that you posted? I don't see any mention of it on Belcher's web site. - John


----------



## huntinghippie (Dec 31, 2002)

Don't know about their website but here's the press release. I know they've been very busy getting everything buttoned up as well as moving into a new building to facilitate the added business and equipment. Exciting times for the Belcher's. :darkbeer:

------------------------------------

Sky Archery Under New Ownership

Brighton, Michigan - - Once under the stewardship of Mathews Inc., Sky Archery is now owned by Jim Belcher, Master Bowyer of Brighton, Michigan. Belcher has over twenty years of experience in traditional bow making and aims at moving forward the company started by Earl Hoyt. “We feel that Jim will devote the focus that Sky needs to reach its full potential.” Matt McPherson, Owner and CEO of Mathews, Inc. commented. Sky Archery, a company known for integrity and high quality traditional recurves and longbows will once again pursue a position in the forefront of modern, traditional archery. Belcher will re-introduce Sky I.L.F. limbs for F.I.T.A. and Olympic Target archers, along with high-performance recurves and longbows for the target archers and bowhunters.

Jim and his wife, Sandra, are very excited to lead Sky Archery and continue its legacy of American-made archery products.

For questions and information, please contact Jim Belcher at:

Jim Belcher
2155 Pless Drive, Suite B
Brighton, Michigan 48114
810.225.9085 shop
[email protected]


----------



## vermonster13 (Sep 18, 2004)

Yeah I didn't post the press release because I didn't want to violate any sponsor rules. My first source of the info was a call from Jim Belcher this morning telling me the deal was all done and official and it was ok to let folks know now.


----------



## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

Thanks for the validation. - John


----------



## huntinghippie (Dec 31, 2002)

Oops! I totally forgot to get rid of the active link when I did copy/paste. No foul meant. Oh well... the mods will take care of it if it's a big deal.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

1) HOpefully they will copy the original Conquest Riser-not the Matthews/Kevin B version with that awful compound grip

2) I wonder if they will retain the non-ILF limb bushings and set screw.


----------



## vermonster13 (Sep 18, 2004)

The compound grip is going away. Going to a Jaeger grip like on Jim's ILF risers.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

vermonster13 said:


> The compound grip is going away. Going to a Jaeger grip like on Jim's ILF risers.


make sure its removable!! I know alot of people who did NOT BUY some of the WW bows just because of that


----------



## Z-MAN (Jan 25, 2004)

I hope we see some of Earls other Sky Bows such as the Sky Hawk Recurve and Rogue Longbow back on the market.


----------



## vermonster13 (Sep 18, 2004)

Yes the grip will be removable.

The Rogue, Hawk, Eagle, etc will be back and more realistically priced than the previous overpriced versions of late.

I want a Rogue TD myself.


----------



## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

vermonster13 said:


> Yes the grip will be removable.
> 
> The Rogue, Hawk, Eagle, etc will be back and more realistically priced than the previous overpriced versions of late.
> 
> I want a Rogue TD myself.


Are the limbs going to be compatible with the older Earl made risers?

I bunged up my 45 lb limbs a few years back and had to carefully sand them down. I'm constantly worried I will do something again or that my fix will not hold - I would *love* a new set of 45 lb limbs that fit it be available, even horridly overpriced ones.

In fact I have contemplated a new recurve for some time over this - I have trouble shooting it worrying over if I do something like that again (while I also have 55# limbs the 45# limbs are *really* nice to shoot). I'm not so worried over the riser, but limbs are fairly easy to damage if you are trying for a traditional shooter's idea of "can I get an arrow through that?". I just have never run into a traditional bow that feels better than the hawk, I have found few that feel as good by a long shot.

I do not mind overpriced - I just hate that a mistake (or even worse actual use) may make the whole bow unshootable.


----------



## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I don't know what legal arrangements Brady Ellison and Vic Wunderle had with Matthews/Sky, but do you intend to continue working with/supplying them? (Brady just set a national record for the FITA round.) Will they be providing feedback for improvements? 

Esthetically, the Matthews is pretty ugly and the addition of their vibration absorbers doesn't offset that. Will there be a new aluminum CNC riser or some other material? Is the Conquest tooling included in the deal and still usable?

I've seen several people express interest in the bow and they were worn out or sent away by Matthews in their attempts to get one. Others love their Sky Conquests and want a replacement, parts or upgrade.


----------



## Mikie Day (Oct 21, 2002)

congrats to Jim and Sandra


----------



## vermonster13 (Sep 18, 2004)

You would need to contact Belcher bows to find out about anything specific. I do know that 80 Conquest risers are due at the shop anytime. so they will be available.


----------



## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Stopped by Belcher/SKY tonight after work.

Jim plans on redoing the conquest with a new grip getting rid of the crappy compound grip on the Mathews model and also redoing the lengths to the 23" and 25" lengths that rule the roost these days. They also will feature ILF fittings and not the conquest style. Limbs will be in the standard SKY jack lengths so bows will range from 64"-70" depending on limb and riser lengths. A "classic" conquest in 24" length might be offered.

Oh yeah sounds like the limbs will be TR-7 style SKY limbs with a little different layup and a little more modern paint.

Things look good for SKY and Belcher in the future. Jim has a lot of great ideas and plans from what I saw.


----------



## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

This is wonderful news!

I'm reminded of a wonderful day in 2004 when Ann Hoyt invited a few of us up to her home in Saint Charles to sift through her remaining Sky inventory for equipment for our JOAD club. She took us on a tour of her house and showed us her memorabilia and trophies...it was quite an honor. We picked up several Sky risers, limbs and bowcases that I cherish to this day.

I always wondered why Mathews didn't do more with the Sky brand. I'm sure the Belchers will return the product quality back to the true Earl and Ann Hoyt Sky legacy.

RK


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Our Matthews rep had me spend a fair amount of time talking to Kevin B who was supposed to push the Sky brand for Matthews. Never figured out what was going on or why they signed Vic and Rod to shoot bows they never had any intent of marketing. That was a move I never could understand.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

RK, I had a similar experience with Ann Hoyt, thanks to Jim C pointing me in the right direction in early 2004 when I was running out of patience waiting on some "new" SKY limbs...

Ann came through with two -very affordable- pairs of 38# long SKY Jacks that eventually took me to Athens, and I've never forgotten her generous help, or the fact that Jim C turned me onto them. Immediately after making the team, I was able to visit with Ann who was there at the trials and show her the limbs that she had sold me just months before. 

Needless to say, I am very loyal to the SKY brand out of respect for everything that Earl Jr. and Ann have done for the sport. I always viewed the SKY brand as Earl's true passion, unhampered by marketing, money or recognition. Those were the bows that HE wanted to make for himself. And it showed.

I think Jim Belcher "gets it" and will continue that strong tradition of excellence. 

John.


----------



## skybowman (Jan 31, 2004)

As an owner of multple sky bows I'm glad to see the name live on. I only wish I had bought more limbs and risers when I had the chance. The Hoyts were great people.


----------



## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

*Sky*

After seeing the Sky bow and hearing all the accolades here I am waiting see the new product and probably will buy one. It does sound like the new owner does "get it" about bows. Gar.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> It does sound like the new owner does "get it" about bows.


His background is building traditional bows that perform well. So he has an understanding of the needs of those who will be his customers. This is something that Mathews just didn't have, or didin't seem too concerned about for whatever reason.

I spoke to Jim yesterday and we know a lot of the same folks in the traditional bowhunting world. He certainly understands how picky traditional shooters can be about their equipment, how loyal they can be to a brand, and how reputations are made and broken in this niche market. Seems like a very professional guy, and I like that.

Also, when you don't have any adjustments (or very few in the case of the target recurves), then you'd better get the design right in the first place. Especially since traditional shooters (both hunters and target archers) tend to hang onto their equipment for a long, long time compared to our compound counterparts.

John.


----------



## Carey041849 (Jul 25, 2009)

jhinaz said:


> Do you have a good source for the information that you posted? I don't see any mention of it on Belcher's web site. - John


 here is Sky Archery's url address http://www.skyarchery.com


----------



## Carey041849 (Jul 25, 2009)

Both my son and I both shot the new Sky bow and his new limbs. My son has just about shot every recurve bow made and he says nothing compares to the new Sky.


----------



## tomah (Aug 15, 2011)

I shot 2 sky bows that were brought back from the mathews retailrs show and they were amazing. The draw was unbelievably smooth and the arrows just popped off my string. If I had 1000 bucks laying around, I would have bought it


----------



## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

I'm planning a trip over to Jim's to look at limbs. He sounds like a great guy to deal with.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I've recently spent the last few months testing SKY risers and limbs. And guess what? (drumroll please...) I actually have REAL data as a result! 

After comparing some of the best limbs available side-by-side using chronographs and digital scales to calculate draw force curves, in additon to on-target results, I've chosen Jim's new SKY bamboo core limbs as my competition limb, and I look forward to having a great season with them this year. Draw force curves and speed (measured) equal or slightly surpass the Samick Masters limbs that I own, and easily surpass the W&W Inno Power limbs. However, they are more pleasant to shoot than either of those limbs because they are quiet and super smooth. I haven't looked forward to shooting a bow this much in a while now.

The new Conquest Advantage riser sports geometry that's very similar to the newest Hoyt bow with less deflex (although there is still a little bit) and slightly steeper limb angles. This should prove an "advantage" to archers with shorter to medium draw lengths that struggle to reach their distances with their current bows. I won't be shooting that riser because of my 32.5" draw length, but I can tell you it's VERY solid, quiet and smooth shooting. It also features the nearly "universal" grip that can be found on early Hoyt bows, as well as Best, Spigarelli and perhaps others, so there are almost unlimited grip options for that handle. 

I'm expecting great things in the next few years from the boys in Michigan. 

For now, I literally can't wait to shoot my PSE X-appeal riser with the SKY bamboo limbs on it. It's an amazing combination.

John


----------



## Paula (Sep 8, 2009)

:thumbs_up


limbwalker said:


> I've recently spent the last few months testing SKY risers and limbs. And guess what? (drumroll please...) I actually have REAL data as a result!
> 
> After comparing some of the best limbs available side-by-side using chronographs and digital scales to calculate draw force curves, in additon to on-target results, I've chosen Jim's new SKY bamboo core limbs as my competition limb, and I look forward to having a great season with them this year. Draw force curves and speed (measured) equal or slightly surpass the Samick Masters limbs that I own, and easily surpass the W&W Inno Power limbs. However, they are more pleasant to shoot than either of those limbs because they are quiet and super smooth. I haven't looked forward to shooting a bow this much in a while now.
> 
> ...


Would love to know why you picked the PSE X-Appeal and your thoughts on that. :angel:


----------



## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

John - in the spirit of sarcasm, I have to ask.... did you pay for those limbs? :tongue:


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Matt - nice. And no, I didn't. But honestly I probably would have bought a pair anyway because they are SKY limbs built on Earl's presses and they are the ONLY bamboo-core ILF limbs made to my knowlege.

I have always been very happy with my Samick Masters limbs, as most folks here know, but these are their equal in performance and just slightly better in shooting manners.

Paula,

It's no secret that I've made the comment that the X-appeal didn't exactly "appeal" to me in the looks department at first glance. It's not a very conventional looking riser. Took me a while to get over that. But I've always been a fan of PSE and especially the team of folks they have their working on the recurve line (Alexander, David, Alan). I also appreciate what they do for our recurve ladies - a too often overlooked team IMO.

It's also no secret that I had a few issues with the X-factor risers that I shot for a few years. The limb alingnment system was not my favorite, and they just weren't heavy and stiff enough for my tastes. So after using them a few years I sent them back to PSE with the hopes that their next riser would be something I could use. 

I've been tinkering with other projects since (including prototype testing for the Bernardini 27" Luxor riser, as well as risers and limbs from other companies) and haven't really given much thought to the X-appeal until recently. Then I had a chance to talk to Jenny and Staten about their bows and finally, Miranda impressed the CRAP out of me with her performance at the Pan-Am games, shooting the highest 70M score ever by a U.S. woman with that bow. So that's when I decided I really needed to put the appearance thing aside and just try one.

I finally got one on loan from a friend and set it up with all the limbs I have at my disposal. I tested Border Hex-6, W&W Inno, Samick Masters and SKY bamboo core limbs on it. The Samicks have been my "standard" against which every other limb gets measured by me in the past. In this case, both the Border and SKY limbs equaled or surpassed the performance of the Masters limbs, and both were more pleasant to shoot - meaning, quieter and less vibration. In the end, I've chosen to use the SKY limbs on the X-appeal, but you might see me shooting the Border limbs too, as I try to get used to their unique draw force curve and performance characteristics. They don't tune like any other limb I've ever shot, so it takes me a little longer to set them up and figure out what will work. I don't always have that kind of time, so I have to play with them as time allows.

Anyway, back to the riser...

The PSE X-appeal has a LOT of features that I feel are top notch and well thought out. The limb alignment system is fantastic. Nearly as good as my Bernardini, which I consider the best of them all. Both of them move the bolt and not the dovetail, are easy to adjust with the bow strung, and lock solidly in place without fear of ever moving. The riser also has good stiffness and more mass near the center of the handle because of the hollowed out limb pockets. I love the centershot line on the shelf - great for helping me quickly tune a bow, and the backweight hole is drilled and tapped in the proper location for my needs.

I'm working with Paul Jaeger to adapt my grip design to the X-appeal. He has my design now for the (old) Hoyt/BEST/Spigarelli platform, but not for the PSE's yet.

I've said this before, but I've not looked forward to getting home from work to shoot a bow like this in some time now. It's just a real pleasure to shoot.

John


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

I still scratch my head as to why there is no American manufacturer who makes a riser that is dead straight and needs no limb adjustment mechanism. What do the Italian's and Norwegian's know that we don't! I own both a BMG Extreme and a Best Zenit. They are both straight and they both have no limb adjustment mechanism. If the limbs I buy are not straight, I send them back. I can't be the only archer who appreciates this.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

You aren't. I shot Best Zenit's for a couple of years, prior to my Bernardini Luxor. They served me very well, and was within a click of a button of buying another one until I shot the X-appeal.

But having to send an otherwise perfectly good set of limbs back, then wait for a new set, is not the most appealing option either. Not everyone has that kind of time, and not every limb manufacturer will work with you that way.

Limb alignment systems are now an expected industry-standard feature. And good ones aren't that dang hard to design and build. But they do add expense to the cost of building the riser, which is why you see some of the cheap and flimsy alignment systems that are out there.

John


----------



## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

John, what model are your limbs? I see Jim offers several models with bamboo cores.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I suppose they are the I.L.F. XCCB Limbs, but Jim had them built to my specifications, so I can't be sure. It would be best to call him.

However, I do recommend the bamboo core limbs. Super smooth, quiet and fast.


----------



## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, there isn't much info on their website, which is a bit disappointing. 
And I know that you can take decent pictures, limbwalker. 
So it's "Pictures, or you haven't got them!"

Special request for some visible bamboo if possible. I think bamboo is a cool material, so any limbs that use it are therefore automatically cool. 

One of the neatest home made flatbows I've ever seen had laminated bamboo floor panels and worked particularly well.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sure, I can do that. And yes, I actually have them... ha, ha, ha.

Best way to describe them is "buttered lightning".

Here's an oblique. I'll take some macros so you can see the bamboo.

John


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

FWIW, these are the same limbs that Brady shot all those ridiculous scores with on his Mathews riser, only his said "Mathews TR-7" on them and these say SKY.

John


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

*Bamboo - mother nature's carbon/foam matrix*

Ask and ye shall receive...


----------



## dkard (Sep 25, 2004)

John, Border offers a bamboo core on their limbs too.
Not sure if it is available on the Hex VI's or not

dave


----------



## Hunter Dave (Jul 17, 2007)

I'd take some photos of my SKY bamboo/carbon limbs, but since they are camo dipped, there's not much to see from a construction standpoint. John, the SKY logo on my limbs is a bit less conspicuous, too. :wink:


----------



## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Ask and ye shall receive...


<Elvis> Thank you very much! </Elvis>


----------



## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

That is a lovely looking bow 

Being on this side of the Atlantic, I think I'll stick with Border limbs when I start shooting again (recovering from a shoulder injury), but I am sorely tempted by the X-Appeal. It's hard to find over here and I don't want to buy from one of the principle stockists for ethical reasons.

I have an unused Nilo waiting for me to shoot... but at times I wonder if I should sell it and get an X-Appeal instead


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

N-Products limbs were known to be made with Bamboo core, and probably they still are, but they are available in Japan, only, as far as I know...


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

John K, that's funny. The appearance of that X-appeal may be the only thing I don't really care for. To each their own, eh? 

Vittorio, I wasn't aware of that, or that Border made limbs with bamboo, although it doesn't surprise me. I've thought for years now that it was strange we didn't see bamboo core limbs more often in ILF equipment, since it has such excellent properties for increased performance and smoothness.

It's commonplace in traditional bows in the U.S. and is considered a premium upgrade from maple.

After shooting these for a few months, I don't see why every premium ILF limb doesn't have bamboo cores.

John


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> John K, that's funny. The appearance of that X-appeal may be the only thing I don't really care for. To each their own, eh?
> 
> Vittorio, I wasn't aware of that, or that Border made limbs with bamboo, although it doesn't surprise me. I've thought for years now that it was strange we didn't see bamboo core limbs more often in ILF equipment, since it has such excellent properties for increased performance and smoothness.
> 
> ...


John.....I'm not a Bowyer, but I have owned a few good Custom's over the last 20-sum years...And talked at length with alot of good Bowyers about materials, and bow designs over the years......This being said, I've always understood that Bamboo/Cane doesn't have the sheer strength, or stability in varying weather conditions that good Maple limbs have, and is normally considered top shelf for a longbow/hybrid, but might not work out as well for a high stressed Recurve design...????....Then again,, glues , composite materials, and construction methods have changed and improved over the last 20 years, also....I believe that the bamboo core bows that I have owned did seem to draw smoother, and act a bit differently at the shot than the non bamboo core bows, and I like the way a bamboo bow shoots...Maybe it's mental??...Hard to nail it down, but bamboo does seem to be different...My son has a Dryad take down hybrid with bamboo limbs, and it's a shooter, one of the best I've ever shot, in any regard that I judge a bow by.....Thanks for the pics, John!......Take care!................Jim P.S........Maybe I'm odd, but I also like the looks of that PSE riser, my only issue is the lack of enclosed limb pockets.....


----------



## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> John K, that's funny. The appearance of that X-appeal may be the only thing I don't really care for. To each their own, eh?


To each their own indeed 

I've always had a weakness for PSE risers. I still have my old Intrepid and will never part with it, although it did develop a very slight twist. My X-Factor was good, but too light for me.

I've seen photos of the X-Appeal with HEX6 limbs - what curves! I will be surprised if I don't cave in when I get back on the line again and start saving for one.


----------



## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> John K, that's funny. The appearance of that X-appeal may be the only thing I don't really care for. To each their own, eh?
> 
> Vittorio, I wasn't aware of that, or that Border made limbs with bamboo, although it doesn't surprise me. I've thought for years now that it was strange we didn't see bamboo core limbs more often in ILF equipment, since it has such excellent properties for increased performance and smoothness.
> 
> ...


I think the idea of bamboo making a smoother/better bow is a relic of the Howard hill days.
Lets run though some logic.
If you take a recurve limb core and put it on a bow without laminates. it would generate some 2lbs at best.
Lets work on the idea that bamboo is 10% better again at best, than maple on something like a self bow. even though its close to the same density. so limb mass is near equal. so your talking about some elastic difference.
but at 10% better, then your talking about 10% of 2 lbs. when your final holding weight of say 45lbs is generated by the same laminates wither it be foam, non foam, bamboo or wood in the core.
so out of 45lbs of holding weight the bamboo will contribute to some 0.2lbs at best. and at 2fps per lbs of holding weight your looking at similar gains as to removing some 1/2" of serving.

Now as for the smoother proportion of the DFC.
The DFC is defined by the Ixx (second moment of area) of each part of the limb, and the limbs former profile.
SO lets take a simple 2 limbs of identical proportions and profile. then, what we have found is that the core values remain the same giving the same final draw wieght.
this means that the core taper, width and profile dictate the DFC, meaning that no matter what core, if the Ixx remains constant along the limb the core will do nothing to the prgression of weight increase. (excluding the above)
The smoothenss in our view is the weight development between each inch of draw and the next, and while there might AT BEST be 0.2lbs difference in final holding weight, between bamboo and maple, the build up to the holding weight should be the same.

If that meakes sence.

bamboo in our mind is overhyped when it comes to making recurves and modern laminates.


we do provide bamboo on any of our limbs as an optional upgrade cost, since some people are convinced it makes a difference. We are here to make bows and make money, so im not going to say no... but we do advise people of our thoughts on the matter.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Good thoughts there Sid.

I think it's safe to say that no other limb has a draw force curve quite like yours! 

When I get a minute, I'll post my draw force curves of your Hex-6 and the Sky bamboo core limbs. It's an interesting comparison for sure!

John


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

*SKY bamboo/carbon and Border Hex-6 DFC*

Have a look. It's certainly a unique comparison.

The SKY limbs are Jim's bamboo core limbs and the Borders are some that Sid made up for me with all wood cores and white glass. I try to test all my limbs on the Axis riser because of it's more traditional deflex geometry. I shoot about 46-47# at 32.5" these days, and measure DFC's to 32" at 45# if I can achieve that. For some reason, The Borders were a pound or so less than the SKY limbs at 32" but this figure still gives you an idea of the difference in Draw Force Curves between the two. It's certainly something you notice when shooting the bow. Frankly, it's something I've not quite gotten used to yet. I'm more used to feeling a bit of stack at the clicker, but whatever a person shoots for a few weeks will feel very "normal" to them so I don't see this as a real issue.

John


----------



## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Borderbows said:


> I think the idea of bamboo making a smoother/better bow is a relic of the Howard hill days.
> Lets run though some logic.
> If you take a recurve limb core and put it on a bow without laminates. it would generate some 2lbs at best.
> Lets work on the idea that bamboo is 10% better again at best, than maple on something like a self bow. even though its close to the same density. so limb mass is near equal. so your talking about some elastic difference.
> ...


Sid,,.......In Your testing and R & D at Border, have You found any differences in durability, and strength between Bamboo, and Maple??....Things like sheer strength of the core laminations themselves,, glue strength bonds between the core, and the glass/carbon laminations??...Bamboo/Cane being porous , and Maple not having growth ring porosity, it would seem that Maple would be more likely to have a stronger sheer strength, and also make for better glue bonds between the laminates.....Also, do You not find that Bamboo/Cane has a higher stiffness -to -weight ratio than Maple, or any other core wood??.....Bamboo seems very stiff for it's weight, and has more "Snap" to it, hence it's use in fly fishing rods....A good friend of mine has an uncle that builds custom Fly rods out of tempered bamboo, and even though the bamboo doesnt have the snap that a good fiberglass or carbon rod has, they still have much more punch than anything made of wood....Just wondering, I enjoy reading what You have to say about bow design......Take care.......Jim


----------



## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Harperman said:


> Sid,,.......In Your testing and R & D at Border, have You found any differences in durability, and strength between Bamboo, and Maple??....Things like sheer strength of the core laminations themselves,, glue strength bonds between the core, and the glass/carbon laminations??...Bamboo/Cane being porous , and Maple not having growth ring porosity, it would seem that Maple would be more likely to have a stronger sheer strength, and also make for better glue bonds between the laminates.....Also, do You not find that Bamboo/Cane has a higher stiffness -to -weight ratio than Maple, or any other core wood??.....Bamboo seems very stiff for it's weight, and has more "Snap" to it, hence it's use in fly fishing rods....A good friend of mine has an uncle that builds custom Fly rods out of tempered bamboo, and even though the bamboo doesnt have the snap that a good fiberglass or carbon rod has, they still have much more punch than anything made of wood....Just wondering, I enjoy reading what You have to say about bow design......Take care.......Jim


to be honest, "Bamboo" is a bit like "wood". We havent spent the time working out the "perfect bamboo", but maple and elm and beech, seem like core materials of choice from the "wood" side of things. I think there are more issues in bow making that pore nature. For example oil content, moisture content. grain quality/node% at stress points. age of glue. oxisiation of glue during glueup. the list of variables is endless.
As for durability... There are bows of both bamboo and wood that seem to have outlasted the design. so i dont think either has a problem, its more a case of design redundancy if the process is completed well.
if that makes sence.


----------



## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Have a look. It's certainly a unique comparison.
> 
> The SKY limbs are Jim's bamboo core limbs and the Borders are some that Sid made up for me with all wood cores and white glass. I try to test all my limbs on the Axis riser because of it's more traditional deflex geometry. I shoot about 46-47# at 32.5" these days, and measure DFC's to 32" at 45# if I can achieve that. For some reason, The Borders were a pound or so less than the SKY limbs at 32" but this figure still gives you an idea of the difference in Draw Force Curves between the two. It's certainly something you notice when shooting the bow. Frankly, it's something I've not quite gotten used to yet. I'm more used to feeling a bit of stack at the clicker, but whatever a person shoots for a few weeks will feel very "normal" to them so I don't see this as a real issue.
> 
> John


Thats a shame, we could have added a pound and filled in some of that preload we lost out on to that Sky limbs to give you the same holding weight.
We have not seen a single DFC ever that fills in the preload bulge right out to your 32" draw length. all limbs seem to climb at some point past 28" and the sky limbs are showing the typical inflection point around the 22" on a long limb. while the hex6 has an inflection point at 28".

Thanks for the comparison. The skys look pritty smooth though.

If you take the poundage gained per inch. you will be able to draw a graph that shows the smoothest point in the draw. Showing inital preload, dropping down to the point where the string lifts off the recurve, (max lever length/minumum poundage) and then the climb into stack. Most long limbs have a change over point/Lift point of 20-22".

anyhow this shows that not all limbs are the same.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sid, we can take this discussion elsewhere since this is a SKY thread... 

Just got in from shooting nearly a dozen consecutive 10's (indoor) with the SKY's and my shiny new CXL's. They seem to love each other. I think these bamboo SKY's are the quietest limbs I've ever shot.

John


----------



## kenn1320 (Aug 28, 2004)

I went over to Sky today for the first time and met Jim. Very nice guy to say the least. I told him what I was looking to do and asked for his opinion on what I should be shooting. In my mind I walked in there wanting long carbon/bamboo limbs(kept my mouth shut) and after shooting a couple limbs on my riser left with an order for a set of mediums with single carbon and maple. At my draw he said the mediums looked perfect. He said the second layer of carbon would show about 3fps faster and as a newbie I wouldnt notice that. Said in his opinion high quality maple was the way to go. I was hoping to get the limbs in a few days, but Jim is pretty busy. He gave me a set of elites in the same weight/length that I ordered to hold me over, along with a string. To say I left there with a huge grin is an understatement. How is that for taking care of a customer?
Ken


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jim is old school. He's the real deal. I didn't realize it until he and got to talking one day, but we first met at a traditional only S. Texas javelina hunt about 20 years ago. Small world.

The man knows how bendy things work. That's for sure.

John


----------



## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> Sid made up for me with all wood cores and white glass.


there is not an ounce of glass anywhere near these limbs.

but your point on this being a sky thread is valid, and i'll bow out!


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

My bad. And I knew that...

So far, these bamboo core SKY's get my vote for the smoothest shooting, quietest limbs I think I've ever shot. Performance is identical to my Samick Masters, which is very impressive. They're almost like shooting the Masters limbs, minus the "crack" noise and feel that usually accomodates those particular limbs.

John


----------

