# Field Archery Tour??



## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I've been cooking this idea off and on for a couple of years. I wanted to see what folks might think of it if it actually happened.

The overall Tour would consist of 5 shoots. Four "Regular" shoots and a National Championship that would crown the Shooter of the Year based on performance SOY would require 3 of the regular shoots and the National Championship shoot. Friday would consist of an Animal Round in the morning and a Pro/Am 14 target Field round in the afternoon. The Pro/Am would have prize packages given away to the winners. Saturday would have a 28 target Field Round and maybe some kind of novelty shoot in the afternoon/evening. Sunday has 28 target Hunter Round. At the conclusion of the Hunter Round, the Top 8 shooters in the Championship/ Pro division would participate in a Shoot Down Round. I have yet to decide whether it would be a cumulative event or a head to head match-up style. This would add another 4 targets hopefully with LOTS of spectators. 

Classes would include Male and Female Championship/Pro, and M and F for Freestyle and Bowhunter Freestyle through all ages. 

The goal would be to have big money payouts for the Championship/Pro division and maybe a payout to the Champion of all the other ADULT Divisions. I have a payback schedule in my head but it really comes down to finances and sponsor involvement.

So, would you go if it were there.


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## UltraEliteLover (Sep 5, 2009)

sounds good, when do we start!


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

Sounds interesting and like a good idea. Or at least a good start. 

The only thing I would do is dump the animal round. Even more so if only 14 targets. The Friday Pro AM is a good idea. 




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## kavo 71 (May 9, 2009)

I think that is a great idea. After seeing the success that the European Pro Tour has had, I wondered why we didn't have something like that here. Would the age groups be grouped by NFAA, or FITA groupings? I know some of the 20 something shooters in the NFAA would like to shoot with their peers, instead of shooting with people who have been shooting longer than they have been alive. Any idea of where the shoots would be? I personally would like to see Cumberland and DCW on the schedule.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Since the games would be based on the NFAA rule book, I would use the NFAA's guidelines on age classes as well.

Cumberland and DCWC are two of the clubs I have in mind but ultimately it would come down to interest and availability.


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

We could hold a leg if Lancaster isn't too far north, think everyone enjoyed our course this weekend??!!


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i wont cast a vote till i understand a little more about the money system.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

rock monkey said:


> i wont cast a vote till i understand a little more about the money system.


The current model I'm working under would pay the Shoot Down shooters ONLY. That is based on 20 shooters in that class. Less than that and the Top 4 only would get paid. Kinda like making the cut at a PGA event. If over time the events could support more shooters and more paid places, I would definitely look at expanding the field, but I am planning on keeping it relatively small for now. The plan is pretty ambitious but the payout I am trying to work with now is:


1st Place: $10,000
2nd Place: $7,500
3rd Place: $5,000
4th Place: $2,500
5-8th Place: $1,000 each

The National Championship would be:

1st Place: $15,000
2nd Place: $10,000
3rd Place: $7,500
4th Place: $5,000
5th-8th Place: $2,000 each

I am also looking at paying the Host Clubs $5,000 + $10 per shooter.

Again, I know that is quite ambitious but I feel as though if the right sponsors were approached it would be VERY doable.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

Are those per event winnings? Will there be an overall points competition for a series champion? What kind of entry fee paid class/other classes?

I would definately try and get out to a couple if I could, I like the idea of the PA shoot, much closer for the canucks


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Yes those are per event winnings for the Championship/Pro classes. 

There would be a Shooter of the Year Champions bonus but it has yet to be determined. 

Entry fees as of now are probably gonna be Championship/Pro class $100, Amateur classes $50, and <18 years old $25. I'm still looking at the fiscal part of everything trying to determine how best to make this work for the Series as well as the archers involved. You should see my notes.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

No place at the table for senior pro's?


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

TNMAN said:


> No place at the table for senior pro's?


Not intending on hijacking here....It would probably be a good idea AFTER the series got started if there was enough interest. Brand new series and already splitting onto several money classes IMO would not be a wise choice. Take a look at the Euro Pro archery series, they have done very well considering they only have 2 classes, Male and Female Unlimited.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

How far west/north do you see this tour being held? There are quite a few of us up here that would shoot but it would depend on the travel distance. Personally, I doubt I could swing all of them, especially down to NC. But you never know...


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## Brad HT (Dec 9, 2006)

Theres a 4 star field course near here that is the best Ive ever seen... I know they would love to host one event... 

I REALLY hope something like this were to come about.... Is this idea based on something like the European Professional Tour?

B~


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

This is a great idea, but please think outside the box. Do not limit the possibilities of such an event(s) by basing your rules and competition on the NFAA format. The archaic rules and tournaments have not kept up with the changes in archery and society in general. People are gonna want something fresh and better than what is currently offered by the NFAA. If people wanted the same old thing that is offered by the NFAA, you would be seeing growth in the NFAA membership and tournaments. Take a page from the ASA, they have been very succesful. They took an established format and tweeked it to give shooters something fresh. When starting fresh, that is the time to institute the changes that will make a new archery format succesful.

All ideas on the new format and new rules will not be perfect, "THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE", but if the participants have an understanding, that this new formats powers that be, have a willingness to listen, learn and institute changes for the betterment of the organization and its members (participants) unlike the NFAA, it can and will be successful. None of this heirachial BS associated with the NFAA.

It may sound as if I am down on the NFAA. Maybe I am. But, if their format was working, you would be seeing growth and not a continuing decline in interest and participation.

*IF SOMETHING IS GOING TO BE NEW AND SUCCESFUL, IT HAS TO BE FRESH. THE SAME OLD THING WILL NOT WORK!!!!*

My comments are not meant to be criticism, they are meant to be constructive and to encourage thinking outside of the old NFAA box. I hope and pray that you are succesful in your attempt to start a new Field Archery format, as we need it. I would be willing to help in anyway I could.

I have some ideas that I will add in my next post.


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## Brad HT (Dec 9, 2006)

ROSKO P said:


> *...IF SOMETHING IS GOING TO BE NEW AND SUCCESFUL, IT HAS TO BE FRESH. THE SAME OLD THING WILL NOT WORK!!!!*


I somewhat disagree with this. I think that where the money is, so goes the crowd. If the NFAA had more money payouts, and the shoots were in more VIABLE locations, rather than South Dakota or wherever it is up there.... There would be a larger following. If you increase the availability, and cash payouts, people will follow.

Just an immediate thought...

B~


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

Here is my idea for classes. These are all male and female classes.

PRO
SENIOR PRO (45 yrs and up)
SENIOR OPEN (any style, 45 yrs and up)
OPEN (any style)
YOUNG ADULT (15-18 yrs)
YOUTH (under 15 yrs) 

I was thinking of maybe a class structure in each division (except professional classes), based on past scores. With maybe sometype of move-up provision. I think the class structure would be needed to encourage new and future continued participation. 

PPROFESSIONAL CLASS (money and award)
CHAMPIONSHIP CLASS (money and award payout)
A CLASS (award)
B CLASS (award)

NOTE: If a person shoots in a professional class in any other organization, then they must shoot in the Professional division.


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## kavo 71 (May 9, 2009)

What about having an International instead of the much maligned animal round? IF I am correct, the International round does away with alot of the targets feared by 3d and hunters. Have the round open to HUNTERS, with the ASA guidelines for equipment, and make it FREE. Now you have a format more in the comfort zone of most hunters, the vast majority of archers in the States, with them having a class all theirnown so they can shoot with their buds and not be intimidated by being put in a group of 550 bhfs shooters. I think this might be a way to introduce new blood into the sport.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

ROSKO P said:


> Here is my idea for classes. These are all male and female classes.
> 
> PRO
> SENIOR PRO (45 yrs and up)
> ...


IMO thats way too many classes for a new series.


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

Brad HT, by somewhat disagreeing with my post, it actually sounds like you agree with me. The NFAA has been doing things the same way forever and will continue to do so as long as the current leadership and structure are in place, including money payouts.

They did shake things up this year in Yankton this year, though not to the benifit of its membership. The membership (shooters) were actually penalized by making the actual NFAA Outdoor Nationals a 3 day only. Whether or not membership agreed with a 3 day or 5 day format was not the reason for the 3 day only shoot. This move was made to accomadate the USA Archery shoot and the Hoyt shoot. Neither of these shoots has any connection to the NFAA and its membership.

I don't want to make this a bash the NFAA thread, but learning from the NFAA's mistakes and lack of forward vision can be used to the advantage of a new organization.

I THINK A NEW ORGANIZATION AND FIELD FORMAT WOULD BE GREAT!!!!


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

If the original poster is trying to start a Professional Tour, I would agree with you about my proposed amount of classes. But, if the OP is trying to start a tour that appeals to the masses then I think I am right on. My proposal eliminates all of the different class styles except one, "Open" shoot what you bring. But at the same time allows for larger participation numbers by breaking the Open style down by class (score) structure.

I may be way off by thinking that the OP was hoping to start a tour that benefited field shooters as a whole and not just Professional money shooters. If the hope is for a Professional Tour, then there is no need for anything other than a male and female class.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

it's a money shoot. classes for guys and girls. stop tryin to make everyone a winner with their own class. we already have enough problems with too many classes and too few competitors. if it grows and the people are there, then fine...expand it. till then, keep it small.


the single biggest issue is getting people to come and play while still making a win something to be proud of. i'm still waiting for an answer of what color medal they give 7th place in the olympics. anyone?:noidea: anyone?:noidea:


we all hear of people that 'say' they'll play but at the end of the day, how many actually DID play?


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

OK, fine if thats haw you feel then I will leave this alone. But I am going to leave you with this.

How do expect to grow a Archery Tour when there are only about 5 people in the US capable of winning it. Their have been only 2 different winners in the last 10 Outdoor Nationals . Jesse Broadwater and dave Cousins.

Do You actually think you can attract enough shooters to shoot against these two guys to support a new tour. Well, all I can say is goodluck with that one.


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## SteveID (May 6, 2008)

Having listened to some of the best in the biz talk about Field Archery, I think you should discuss rules and format with them if you want them to show. 

I don't think they are at all interested in it being similar to the NFAA Animal (Field and Hunter hardly decide it) Nationals that they currently shoot. They are interested in revamping the scoring. Something along the lines of X=6 and spot=5 or x=5 and spot=4. Otherwise you will have a bunch of guys who shoot 557 up and there will be hardly any separating from 1st to 10th. 

If you change the scoring format and scrap the animal round, you will really have something worth shooting.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

rock monkey said:


> i wont cast a vote till i understand a little more about the money system.


 I wish our Elected Officials would adhere to that logic.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

rock monkey said:


> it's a money shoot. classes for guys and girls. stop tryin to make everyone a winner with their own class. we already have enough problems with too many classes and too few competitors. if it grows and the people are there, then fine...expand it. till then, keep it small.
> 
> 
> the single biggest issue is getting people to come and play while still making a win something to be proud of. i'm still waiting for an answer of what color medal they give 7th place in the olympics. anyone?:noidea: anyone?:noidea:
> ...


 Exactly...that is really the crux of our problem...everybody gets a class so everybody can win...

How many people "won" outdoor nationals by beating less than 5 people this year? I haven't looked at the results this year, but it was something like 10 last year...


ROSKO P said:


> OK, fine if thats haw you feel then I will leave this alone. But I am going to leave you with this.
> 
> How do expect to grow a Archery Tour when there are only about 5 people in the US capable of winning it. Their have been only 2 different winners in the last 10 Outdoor Nationals . Jesse Broadwater and dave Cousins.
> 
> Do You actually think you can attract enough shooters to shoot against these two guys to support a new tour. Well, all I can say is goodluck with that one.


Good point there, but I think that is more than addressed by the shoot down to decide the champions... you just need to "make the cut", then get hot at the right time...

Spoon...let me know how I can help...

The biggest issue you're going to have as i see it is enticing people to spend the money to travel to the shoots, unless there is someway to give them the illusion that they have a chance of collecting some of the money they spent. I know personally, I'll shoot the local ones, but I'm not going to drop $1000 bucks travelling to a shoot just to donate unless there is some other compelling reason to be there...

I also think changing the scoring to appease the pros is a bad idea. the death knell of field archery began in the late 70's when the NFAA switched from the "old" to the "new" target. Yes it seperated the pros, but it left the "joes" in the dust. Took away the average joe's hope of winning anything, so they stopped showing up...


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

WOW, I missed a LOT not being able to get on last night. 

Okay, I'll try to answer some of the questions and give you an idea of where my mindset is.

The whole idea that has gotten me started with the paper side of this is the simple fact that there is ONE National level Field shoot every year. There really is no reason to be a Professional archer in the NFAA because you get to shoot ONE Field shoot and ONE Indoor shoot and you're done. I want to create a Tour that allows Professional Archers a place to shoot and have a chance at making some money that they don't have now. With that as the underlying thought, I also want to give the average Joe shooter a place to go shoot and compete with other archers outside of their local area and get some exposure with the Pros we have.

I really think that changing the games may not be the answer however there is a very good likelyhood that using the X=6 format will be used. As of now the X is irrelevant in NFAA scoring. However making any drastic changes to the game of Field archery won't do what I am hoping to do with this Series. I am using the European Archery Series and the ASA Pro/Am Tour as models from which to pull the basic framework for the new Field Archery Tour. 

The Animal Round on Friday will more than likely get dumped before we actually get the final product developed and we would just have the Pro/Am on Friday afternoon, as long as there are Pros willing to participate. Otherwise there may just be a team shoot of some kind to give amateurs a chance to play and win some money on Friday before the regular event starts on Saturday. There a several other people that I am going to consult before this ever becomes a reality. This thread is an opportunity to see if the interest is there to have something like this. 

As far as locations are concerned, we aren't quite there yet but anywhere that has the desire to hold one will be given an opportunity. There won't be many requirements other than a 28 target course and enough parking for what could potentially be several hundred shooters for the courses themselves. Proximity to airports and areas with enough motels and restaurants is another key ingredient that we will be looking for.

I have to admit that I kinda forgot the Seniors. I know shame on me. The Sr. Pro class will also have the same money payout if there are enough to make the class. However if any of the Pro classes were to have less than 10 shooters, the paybacks would be reduced somewhat and I'd really like to have at least 20 to pay out the $10,000 but that is one of the details that I am still working on. 

I think this answered most of the questions and addressed most of the concerns so far. Again this is just in the paper stages and wouldn't start before next Field season at he earliest but starting discussions now might help move things along. 

I appreciate ALL of the comments, good or bad, and am taking everything said into consideration.


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## LoneEagle0607 (Jan 15, 2008)

Sounds like fun. I probably would not travel to shoots that are several hours away. But would certainly shoot the local events, perhaps a few other depending on distance.

Would also hope it would entice other female archers to join in. I need some competition:wink: (AFFS)


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Spoon. 

Do you think a single 28 target course would support what you're trying to accomplish?

And before anyone says........
Yes I realize a single 28 target course can support 112 shooters.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Moparmatty said:


> Spoon.
> 
> Do you think a single 28 target course would support what you're trying to accomplish?
> 
> ...


Truth?? I'm hoping no. 

But I have to start somewhere with it and while I want the framework to be able to support several hundred shooters, I'm hoping that starting with something is better than having nothing.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

LoneEagle0607 said:


> *Sounds like fun. I probably would not travel to shoots that are several hours away. But would certainly shoot the local events, perhaps a few other depending on distance.*


that would be my answer too.


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I want to know how you're going to get those large payouts on a field of 20 shooters. What is the entry fee going to be? If you get those payouts and get the mfg's to offer contingency you will see a revival of field archery. Just look at what vegas has turned into since the larger payouts have been offered. The nice thing about a field shoot versus vegas is that there is alot less expense(unless I'm missing something) to having a large field shoot versus a large indoor shoot. Should make for more payout and more profit for everyone. As for classes...mens/womens pro, men sr pro, mens/women open I dont' think the attendance for the rest of the classes amount to enough to worry about for a start up organization.


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

IMO the field game/round itself isn't in need of being fixed. The problem is there are no field shoots in most places. The money and draw is in 3D. 

I would think it's a great idea to count the X as a 6. But other then that the round is fine the way it is. The round doesn't take any longer to shoot then a 3D round does unless you have people on the course slowing things up which is the same reason 3D rounds are slow. Add a time limit per shooter for each target and the game will be sped up. There is a time limit in 3D, indoors and in FITA. 3 mins to shoot your 4 arrows or you zero what you have left to shoot. It really shouldn't be an issue with the range officials on course which your gonna have to have anyway. Everyone was done at Insteada on Sat by 1:30-2:00 and that's with an 8:30 start with a break after the round for them to go back on the course and hang the animal targets and for all groups to go back out to their targets. 


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

You will never get that kind of cash for this event. Everyone loves field but no one wants to travel except for nationals. If you did find the cash the pro's would be all over it but the joes would be home. Also there is no need to score the X as only a few have shot it clean. Shoot offs are way more fun and dramatic. This is coming from me who hasn't shot but 1 field round this year. Golf is more fun now.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

VA Vince said:


> You will never get that kind of cash for this event. Everyone loves field but no one wants to travel except for nationals. If you did find the cash the pro's would be all over it but the joes would be home. Also there is no need to score the X as only a few have shot it clean. Shoot offs are way more fun and dramatic. This is coming from me who hasn't shot but 1 field round this year. Golf is more fun now.


If you know how to approach sponsors and advertise the sky is the limit.


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## Brad HT (Dec 9, 2006)

ROSKO P said:


> Brad HT, by somewhat disagreeing with my post, it actually sounds like you agree with me. The NFAA has been doing things the same way forever and will continue to do so as long as the current leadership and structure are in place, including money payouts.
> 
> They did shake things up this year in Yankton this year, though not to the benifit of its membership. The membership (shooters) were actually penalized by making the actual NFAA Outdoor Nationals a 3 day only. Whether or not membership agreed with a 3 day or 5 day format was not the reason for the 3 day only shoot. This move was made to accomadate the USA Archery shoot and the Hoyt shoot. Neither of these shoots has any connection to the NFAA and its membership.
> 
> ...


You know... after reading a bit more, we probably are a bit closer than I thought. My problem with what we currently have is still what they say.... location, location, location. And of course, money. I dont care what kind of archery is available, if you can offer $5000 to shoot fishing bobbers, people will show up and blast away... so money payout is key as well... and in spoons senario, it sounds like it would be... 

This is a FANTASTIC conversation... Spoon, I hope you keep this going, and something big comes of it!

B~


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Just a couple of thoughts that might make a great improvement. Use the international round format on a field course. It works great, it is much quicker, requires much less financial, land, target, and labor involvement - just a lot more fun than our current outdated field/hunter rounds, especially for the crowd you are wishing to attract. Shoot the Internation format using hunter and field faces - this is just a terrific round!!! A second thought might be to use the FITA field faces.

I would totally eliminate the animal round as it is now shot (and previously for that matter). It is now TOO significant and used to be irrelevant.

Day 1: Field faces
Day 2: Hunter faces
Day 3: Field faces using Pro round scoring.

This format will really bring the cream to the top.

(By the way, create a senior pro division with 70 year old age limit so I can play)


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

something like this is what field needs, look at the sucess of ASA,IBO has had in 3D. Theres not reason filed can't do it. I know there are places out there with multiple coarses and i'm sure there would be clubs willing to put out another course if there knew there were gonna get a few hundred shooters for a number of years.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

x-hunta said:


> If you know how to approach sponsors and advertise the sky is the limit.


Advertising dollars right now are few and far between. Even the Super Bowl this year did not sell out. With the state of the economy a ton of companies are spending less as a way to cut some costs in an attempt to stay profitable, at least until the economy turns.

If I am reading it correctly, there would need to be somewhere around $250k for those payouts. It is hard for any company to justify that type of investment right now to reach......around 100 people, and 100 may be a bit of a stretch right now for a field archery tour.......

Scheduling would also become difficult. Right now, between ASA, worlds, IBO, NFAA and NAA events, the calendar is pretty full.......


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

reylamb said:


> Advertising dollars right now are few and far between. Even the Super Bowl this year did not sell out. With the state of the economy a ton of companies are spending less as a way to cut some costs in an attempt to stay profitable, at least until the economy turns.
> 
> If I am reading it correctly, there would need to be somewhere around $250k for those payouts. It is hard for any company to justify that type of investment right now to reach......around 100 people, and 100 may be a bit of a stretch right now for a field archery tour.......
> 
> Scheduling would also become difficult. Right now, between ASA, worlds, IBO, NFAA and NAA events, the calendar is pretty full.......


Where are you getting the 250k from?


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

reylamb said:


> Advertising dollars right now are few and far between. Even the Super Bowl this year did not sell out. With the state of the economy a ton of companies are spending less as a way to cut some costs in an attempt to stay profitable, at least until the economy turns.
> 
> If I am reading it correctly, there would need to be somewhere around $250k for those payouts. It is hard for any company to justify that type of investment right now to reach......around 100 people, and 100 may be a bit of a stretch right now for a field archery tour.......
> 
> Scheduling would also become difficult. Right now, between ASA, worlds, IBO, NFAA and NAA events, the calendar is pretty full.......


Actually the Super Bowl did sell out. They sold more tickets then they had seats for. But if it didn't it's because the ticket prices are ridiculous. Has nothing to do with the economy. Just like the economy has nothing to do with nobody going to shoot Nationals at Yankme. 


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

Wow, I debated back and forth while reading through this thread on whether or not to respond. 

I hate to be debbie downer but I think you're pissing in the wind spoon. 

First of all those #'s are way unreachable. You're talking $29K per event. If you had 2 courses which very very few clubs have could hold 228 people. 

That's $128/per entry fee just to break even. The JOE'S aren't gonna pay that money to shoot for fun while the PRO's collect all their $$$$$

I think it's a great idea in theory but I'd look into turning the Hill Billy in MD, the Bgfoot in NJ, the Insteada Nat'l in PA Bugs Island in VA and maybe another pre-established big shoot into a 5 stop tour. The foundation is already there for those shoots, they have their regular shooters what you'd need to do is get some from each of those to travel to the rest. 

Good Luck


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

if the money is there field archery will come back, alot of the people I shoot with dont want to drive 60 miles one way and pay $25.00 to shoot to win a pin or a metal when they can drive 30 miles(3D) to pay the same and win $200.00. I like 3D and field and I like to shoot for money and metals but the masses want to have the chance to get some back.


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

Hinkelmonster said:


> Wow, I debated back and forth while reading through this thread on whether or not to respond.
> 
> I hate to be debbie downer but I think you're pissing in the wind spoon.
> 
> ...


When I first read this thread I thought that was were he was going with this Hink, an East Coast series of sorts. I am sure if something along those lines was to get started 'Insteada' would be interested!! We are not a big enough facility to host more than 112 shooters but I am certain this type of series wouldn't exceed that. If we could establish something along those lines it would make life easier for all the clubs holding the shoots and help their attendance. I beat my brains out trying to get word out about the 'Insteada' but still hear folks say 'we didn't know about it' ????????


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

RatherBArchery said:


> When I first read this thread I thought that was were he was going with this Hink, an East Coast series of sorts. I am sure if something along those lines was to get started 'Insteada' would be interested!! We are not a big enough facility to host more than 112 shooters but I am certain this type of series wouldn't exceed that. If we could establish something along those lines it would make life easier for all the clubs holding the shoots and help their attendance. I beat my brains out trying to get word out about the 'Insteada' but still hear folks say 'we didn't know about it' ????????



could you have a morning and afternoon line to accomidate more people????


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

Yes we could, maybe whoever shoots Saturday morning shoots Sunday afternoon?? Only problem is that the Sunday morning shooters would have to wait a long time for the results. We have also considered using a neighboring club for overflow, but that hasn't been a problem yet. We have enough parking with the lot up on top our hill but only one course.


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

you could have an 8:00 and a 12:00 shoot time. The people who live farther would get the 12 sat time and 8 sunday time. The people that live closer could have the opposite times. If you are in contention and wanna stay to receive your money fine, if not mail them the checks.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

24 out of the 56 shooters at this years TX Field Archery Association Championship were finger shooters. That’s 42%.
Don’t know if the other states have many finger shooters or not, but if you included some type of finger class it would increase your attendance.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

KStover said:


> 24 out of the 56 shooters at this years TX Field Archery Association Championship were finger shooters. That’s 42%.
> Don’t know if the other states have many finger shooters or not, but if you included some type of finger class it would increase your attendance.


 That's nearly as many as showed up at Outdoor nationals in all of the Sighted FSL classes other than recurve men and women combined...

There were a total of 2 PMFSL shooters:mg:...There were 20 shooters in the Recurve classes though (6 women, 7 Men, 7 in the Senior and MS classes)...

An Olympic recurve class might make sense, but I'm not sure a compound "limited" class would...

We as archers need to get out of this "Find the class I can win in" mentality that permeates the sport before we will ever go mainstream...


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## PAUL PUGLISI (Dec 21, 2002)

Sounds alot like the Notrth American Pro Archery Series . I believe your payouts are unrealistic for atleast the first 2 seasons of the event. We have started slow due to this fact. Yes you can have a $100.00 entry fee but it will take time for the series to catch on.


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## LHpuncher (Apr 12, 2004)

PAUL PUGLISI said:


> Sounds alot like the Notrth American Pro Archery Series . I believe your payouts are unrealistic for atleast the first 2 seasons of the event. We have started slow due to this fact. Yes you can have a $100.00 entry fee but it will take time for the series to catch on.



I agree it will take time.


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## Pat_from_PA (Dec 18, 2002)

Don't stop keep the momentum going...south western pa has atloeast 5 or 6 operational field courses too that are in great shape really utilizing the terrain in the area. All of then within an hour of Pittsburgh In't Airport. All well kept courses used quite often.


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## Pat_from_PA (Dec 18, 2002)

I think a 3 digit entry fee may turn some joes away also. I think that that what u would loose at 100 u may pick up,more participants at 80 or 85. Just a psychological view.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I like the conversation folks. I'm keeping track and writing down notes. Some of the stuff I like and some I don't but we are still a ways away from having to worry about most of it.

I will say that using existing shoots to create a 5 or 6 stop tour is a fall back position if things don't work out the way I want them to.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

60X said:


> If you get those payouts and get the mfg's to offer contingency you will see a revival of field archery. As for classes...mens/womens pro, men sr pro, mens/women open I dont' think the attendance for the rest of the classes amount to enough to worry about for a start up organization.


Hey Spooner, Gotta agree with Brad on this one. Although I'm a field newbie, I can see how this could really grow this wonderful sport. yes, I'd travel to them all. Perhaps for the Joes you could have a ranking system based on cumulative score with non-monetary awards given out for the top 3 or top 5 over the course of the tour. Would give incentive to those who aren't quite skilled enough yet to bring home the bacon, but still capable of putting on a good showing.

Also, let me know if you need a hand with this. I'm onboard!!:wink:


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

dont mind me, these are just some ponderings by the village idiot.......

i think approaching the clubs that have the best turn-outs from the events (by AT reporting) would be a good start. what i would suggest is that you set the schedule up to not conflict with their already successful events or be an 'event within an event' kinda thing.

the clubs that already have a good customer base so your word of mouth will spread quickly, which will greatly help.


have you set up some sort of plan for the hosting clubs? somewhere between the ASA way of doing things and the IBO way of doing things. you know, give a little to the folx that allowed you a place and that did the work.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

i always enjoy it when folks put their thinking caps on and start discussions about positive things. i can't offer much here except to say i wish there were more field shoots in my area. 
this tour idea, that seems to have some elements of the philosophy associated with ASA, sounds like a good one. the issue of the number of targets needed is not an easy one to address. in 3d you can plop those deer and other critters where-ever you want them. not so with field. wonder if anyone is working on a feasible field target that would be easy to move and set up and would last under a pretty hard pounding. btw, five, twenty eight target ranges would support 560 shooters which would be a respectable beginning number, imho.

i'm gonna keep an eye on you guys...hopefully this can be made to amount to something.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kade said:


> Actually the Super Bowl did sell out. They sold more tickets then they had seats for. But if it didn't it's because the ticket prices are ridiculous. Has nothing to do with the economy. Just like the economy has nothing to do with nobody going to shoot Nationals at Yankme.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i think he was referring to selling out ad spots for the super bowl.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

spoon whats up


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

You probably would need to run double lines on most ranges. An AM and PM start on Sat. Then on Sun if your Sat score sucked you shoot early if your in the hunt you shoot the later Sun round, just like indoor Nationals does or like golf does. 

As for the entry fee. The $100 entry fee WILL NOT scare off people if there is a good pot. How much is it to shoot Vegas? Heck how many people shoot the Lancaster Classic that have no shot? That entry fee isn't cheap and they were booked up solid well in advance I couldn't even sign up to donate this year. How about indoor and outdoor Nationals and they have no money payback at all. 

But with the Joe class you need a cash payout also. Just like the ASA does. I would just do the entry fee lower but pay it back. 


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

x-hunta said:


> Where are you getting the 250k from?


 I am coming up with right at 30k for the regular legs, and he said classes(s), so I just guessed 2 classes, plus 5k for the host club....so 45k per even for the first 5....225k....then you have the payouts for the National Championship....so a $250k sponsor may not actually cut the mustard.....expenses, etc, and it would need a 300k - 400k title sponsor, give or take a little bit.


Kade said:


> Actually the Super Bowl did sell out. They sold more tickets then they had seats for. But if it didn't it's because the ticket prices are ridiculous. Has nothing to do with the economy. Just like the economy has nothing to do with nobody going to shoot Nationals at Yankme.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ad revenue, commercials, the NFL nor FOX sold out their advertising slots........fans in the seats are peanuts in the grand scheme of the Super Bowl. However, the Super Bowl is the most watched show in the US every year, and if they can't sell out their commercials right now...yes, it is the economy. I am in the TV industry, the economy and ad revenue goes hand in hand....


Kade said:


> You probably would need to run double lines on most ranges. An AM and PM start on Sat. Then on Sun if your Sat score sucked you shoot early if your in the hunt you shoot the later Sun round, just like indoor Nationals does or like golf does.
> 
> As for the entry fee. The $100 entry fee WILL NOT scare off people if there is a good pot. How much is it to shoot Vegas? Heck LancasterHow about indoor and outdoor Nationals and they have no money payback at all.
> 
> ...


$100 would probably not scare off the pros, but that is close to or over the breaking point for the Joes for a National Series of shoots......attending 6 shoots with a $100 entry fee adds up quickly. Vegas is Vegas. I do not recall the entry fee at Indoor Nats being that much more than the ASA shoots. For the Joes I think a $50 entry fee with payout would not be too much to scare off the Joes.......but the payout may scare off the die-hard NFAA'ers.......


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## kavo 71 (May 9, 2009)

Instead of a payout for the Joes, is there a way to work something out with the Pros so the top Joes get to shoot a round with them? Something like the top 10 Joes get to shoot in groups with the Pros, with 2 and 2 in each group. I know a lot of people like cash, but a chance to learn from some of the best shooters in the world would be pretty nice too.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

kavo 71 said:


> Instead of a payout for the Joes, is there a way to work something out with the Pros so the top Joes get to shoot a round with them? Something like the top 10 Joes get to shoot in groups with the Pros, with 2 and 2 in each group. I know a lot of people like cash, but a chance to learn from some of the best shooters in the world would be pretty nice too.


Your pretty much describing a pro-am.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Okay, I finally have a chance to get back in here like I need to be so I thought I'd address some of the thoughts brought up.

As of now the idea would probably consist of a Pro/Am on Friday morning as long as we have enough Pros to make it worth while. Then Friday afternoon we would probably have a Hunter round go off. Saturday would have 2 lines of Field rounds leaving one last Hunter Round for Sunday morning. This would allow us to still have the Pro shootdown early PM and get folks on the road headed home before it got too late. All this would allow us to have 224 shooters on a 28 target course.

We are also looking at paying each club $5K as a "Thank You" for the hard work they will put in and the use of their range. I also intend to be as loyal as I can be to the clubs that help us get started so I can only hope that they might put that towards another 28 targets, if they have the room, so they can grow with us.

I really think the $100 entry fee is actually pretty cheap for an event that would have the cash payout that we are looking at. The Joe entry is only $50 which puts it in line with most of the ASA classes. I am still undecided as to whether a payout for the Joe classes will be implemented. I know that the possibility of cash would draw more folks in to the shoots but I also know that anytime you put money on the line, some folks do less than honest things to get it. I really don't want that kind of scenario playing out with a new series. 

And truth be told, $250K doesn't get it done for a season. It's gonna take a bit more than that. 

The reality is that even if things go the way I want them to, this Series probably isn't gonna exist before the Spring of 2013. But I would rather start now and do it right than to try and throw something together and know it's gonna fail before it starts.

Please keep the chatter coming. I really enjoy hearing what folks have to say about this. Please feel free to send me PMs with questions if you have them. I really do what to hear what you have to say, good or bad.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

Spoon13 said:


> Okay, I finally have a chance to get back in here like I need to be so I thought I'd address some of the thoughts brought up.
> 
> As of now the idea would probably consist of a Pro/Am on Friday morning as long as we have enough Pros to make it worth while. Then Friday afternoon we would probably have a Hunter round go off. Saturday would have 2 lines of Field rounds leaving one last Hunter Round for Sunday morning. This would allow us to still have the Pro shootdown early PM and get folks on the road headed home before it got too late. All this would allow us to have 224 shooters on a 28 target course.
> 
> ...


Why not run an international round on sunday morning? That way you can get the shootdown started in a timely manner.


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## archerypeck (Apr 30, 2010)

Sounds good what about entry fee for young adults?


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## Kade (Jan 11, 2011)

I wouldn't even run a young adult class or youth class until down the road. But that's me. It's a money shoot.




---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I wanted to bring this back up so I could let you folks know that I;m still working on it. Met a lady the other day that gets sponsorship dollars for a Fishing Circuit. She and I have talked several times about getting some sponsors on board for the Field Archery Tour. 

This might just be getting fun now.


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## bowhunter_va_28 (Apr 28, 2003)

Spoon13 said:


> I wanted to bring this back up so I could let you folks know that I;m still working on it. Met a lady the other day that gets sponsorship dollars for a Fishing Circuit. She and I have talked several times about getting some sponsors on board for the *Field Archery Tour*.
> 
> This might just be getting fun now.


so are you going to call it FAT, or will be regional and called So. FAT (Southern Field Archery Tour), No. Fat (Northern Field Archery Tour), We. FAT (Western Field Archery Tour) and MW FAT (MidWest, that one's just not funny)?


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I was thinking more along the lines of American Field Archery Tour so I guess it would be AFAT. Unless of course somebody like UnderArmour wanted to get involved in which case it would be UFAT.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bowhunter_va_28 said:


> so are you going to call it FAT, or will be regional and called So. FAT (Southern Field Archery Tour), No. Fat (Northern Field Archery Tour), We. FAT (Western Field Archery Tour) and MW FAT (MidWest, that one's just not funny)?


 Mid America Field Archery Tour? MA Fat?


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## Hinkelmonster (Oct 25, 2004)

Any update?


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## Brad HT (Dec 9, 2006)

This is such a fantastic idea.... I really do want to be involved in any way I can, Spoon!

B~


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Needless to say there is a LOT more work than I had anticipated to get things worked out. I knew it was gonna be more difficult than just hosting a shoot but it has surprised even me. Still working on things though. The idea is still alive.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

for the scoring format, would it be a 28target field round on saturday, a half international round on sunday and then the shoot-off on an american round (from near to far order) or the second half of the international round?


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## Hoosier bowman (Jan 10, 2010)

How about 28 targets instead and dump the animal round...

14 in AM and 14 in PM or 14 day one and 14 day two with a shoot-off on day three....

Either way I would LOVE to do this and sign me up!


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

The format that I am looking at right now would be 28 Field/28 Hunter. Then the top 4 shooters from each Championship Division would go to a 4 target Shootdown that would consist of 2 Field and 2 Hunter targets. I'd like to be able to do the Shootdown on the practice bales so we could get more people around to see it so the Shootdown targets may vary from one shoot to the next. Each Division would shoot among itself so all 4 of the Male Championship shooters would be together, Female Championship would be together and the Sr Championship would be together. That way each shooter would know where they stood. 

Logistics is the hardest part. Trying to accommodate enough shooters and get the rounds in without shooting too late on Sunday is a bit challenging.


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

Spoon13 said:


> The format that I am looking at right now would be 28 Field/28 Hunter. Then the top 4 shooters from each Championship Division would go to a 4 target Shootdown that would consist of 2 Field and 2 Hunter targets. I'd like to be able to do the Shootdown on the practice bales so we could get more people around to see it so the Shootdown targets may vary from one shoot to the next. Each Division would shoot among itself so all 4 of the Male Championship shooters would be together, Female Championship would be together and the Sr Championship would be together. That way each shooter would know where they stood.
> 
> Logistics is the hardest part. Trying to accommodate enough shooters and get the rounds in without shooting too late on Sunday is a bit challenging.


well how many shooters are you expecting?


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

x-hunta said:


> well how many shooters are you expecting?


It's not so much the number that I'm expecting but how much growth is built in from the start. I don't want to paint myself into a corner from the get go. In reality, 112 shooting spots is probably enough to cover the first few events. But I want to have a plan already in place for what happens when that is no longer the case. Double shotgun starts would bump to 224 shooters but then we are looking at 28 on Friday afternoon, two 28 rounds on Saturday and then another 28 on Sunday to get everyone in and done to do a shootoff @ 2:30 or so on Sunday and then let people get back on the road to get home at a decent time. 

While I have no illusions that this would ever be as big as an ASA event (1000+ shooters) I feel that if it is done right from the start it could grow to have as many as 5-600 shooters at any given date. That is if everything comes together like it needs to. 

To me it is easier to over plan and adjust to a smaller crowd than it is to plan on a small crowd and have to figure out how in the heck we're gonna give everybody the same experience and handle it like we know what we're doing. :wink:


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

Sounds like a great idea, wish I lived closer. 
As for payouts and divisions heres an idea for you.

For our Badger proam we limit the classes to Mens/Womens FS Money, BHFS money, Senior FS money and the rest get put in a 'run what ya brung' flight system.

Flights are broken up with equal money going to ALL flight winners so every one has a shot at making a little jingle for incentive.

I think that will get more Joes to participate with a little incentive cash


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

sharkred7 said:


> Sounds like a great idea, wish I lived closer.
> As for payouts and divisions heres an idea for you.
> 
> For our Badger proam we limit the classes to Mens/Womens FS Money, BHFS money, Senior FS money and the rest get put in a 'run what ya brung' flight system.
> ...


You never know with the locations. I intend to set it up similar to the ASA tour so that there are events in different areas. Hopefully somebody in the upper midwest will be interested in hosting a shoot and you might be able to make it after all. I don't want it to be limited by geography too much however if we only have 5 events the first year, they may be spread out quite a bit. I think i remember somebody from that general area saying they had a club that was interested though.

As far as money payouts, I'm still on the fence about doing that for the non-Championship classes. I have a few ideas in mind but haven't gotten far enough along in the development to work on that part yet. I know $$ will draw more people but I don't really want the lying, cheating, pissing, and moaning that usually comes with it. But again, that has yet to be determined.


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## Brad HT (Dec 9, 2006)

I know of two top notch field courses around here, and I am pretty sure each club would love to host something like this...

Joliet Archery Club - Joliet, IL
& 
Bigfoot Archers - Lake Geneva, WI

Both of these are great courses for something like this..

B~


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