# Does anyone have pictures of thier Draw Boards?



## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Ok....:wink:


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

Yeah I guess that is the ULTIMATE drawboard isn't it. I was kinda thinking a little cheaper though actually.


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## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

I have one that is very crude but I dont have a pic. I will take one if you want.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Here are some that were posted last year... I've built a couple like these...


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## opa (Jul 19, 2003)

Hi

Here's mine: http://www.xs4all.nl/~pdj/db/

Opa


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## Tunaboy (Oct 3, 2004)

*Draw "Machine"*

I can not post a pic. but maybe I can explain mine. Mine is virticle so I can check cams, I use a 600# boat wench and a turnbucle to fine tune. No welding, used the 1.5" square tube.

Wait.. I need to have my kid show me how to attach a pic. It will show you everything. Make a good one, the more I get it to tuning the more I use mine.


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## longcut36 (Nov 16, 2005)

*drawboard*

i made a vertical out of 3 inch electrical conduit and two 12 inch 2x6 boards. i cut a 3 inch hole in the boards,put them on each end of conduit and screwed then to floor and ceiling. i put a wrench on top with a set of 100# scales which i can remove if i need to. i got a V roller from a boat shop . i drilled some holes about 4 inches apart for the V roller. i can move the roller up and down to were the bow is at eye level setting on a stool or chair if i want to. also i can see both sides of bow with this setup being vertical. i guess you could use a 2x6 instead of conduit. hope this helps you


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## pyroarch57 (Jul 13, 2006)

*Drawboard pics*

Here`s my drawboard, it works a treat.


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## MKD (Feb 8, 2003)

Hope this does not sound stupid but what do you use a draw board for?


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

opa said:


> Hi
> 
> Here's mine: http://www.xs4all.nl/~pdj/db/
> 
> Opa


Opa,
That's a great drawboard. I like it much better than the one's with a boat winch. But how do you use it to change strings?

Thanks,
Allen


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## Bushy402 (Nov 6, 2005)

*Hope this does not sound stupid but what do you use a draw board for?*


They use them to check draw stop timing and to check to make sure cams are it time at full draw. There are a few more reasons i think. I'm sure some1 smarter then me will shine some light on the subject.


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## Bols (Jan 29, 2006)

*Bump...*

Does anyone else have any other draw boards they would like to share?

I am working on setting something up so I can properly tune my own bows.

Any other ideas would be great!


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## opa (Jul 19, 2003)

AllenRead:

It's simple, all you need is a fixed lenght (for your bow) "oversized string" with pegs that you can put between the limbs: just the same as a Bowmaster. Steel wire will do, I used Dyneema kiteline ( 8 strand 500 lbs kiteline.. I think that's enough LOL )
Stick it beween the limbs at full draw, and relax the drawboard a bit.. that's all.

For split limbs, you need adapters like the Bowmaster has..

Opa


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

opa said:


> AllenRead:
> 
> It's simple, all you need is a fixed lenght (for your bow) "oversized string" with pegs that you can put between the limbs: just the same as a Bowmaster. Steel wire will do, I used Dyneema kiteline ( 8 strand 500 lbs kiteline.. I think that's enough LOL )
> Stick it beween the limbs at full draw, and relax the drawboard a bit.. that's all.
> ...


Opa, Thank you, I think that I will build one of yours. I can even take it with me to the range.


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## WoolyWelsh (Sep 9, 2006)

Please don't laugh me off of AT. Sorry to shift focus on this thread, but can someone explain to me why the bows shown in the pictures (the bows that are at full draw) are "crooked" or "tilted"? Doesn't this tilting mean the tiller is way off? 

I just do not get it...you're obviously shooting these bows in-tune, and all the compounds I've seen shooting at full draw do not appear crooked, when shooting for real. Can anyone shed a light on this?


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## practice-more (Nov 10, 2005)

WoolyWelsh said:


> Please don't laugh me off of AT. Sorry to shift focus on this thread, but can someone explain to me why the bows shown in the pictures (the bows that are at full draw) are "crooked" or "tilted"? Doesn't this tilting mean the tiller is way off?
> 
> I just do not get it...you're obviously shooting these bows in-tune, and all the compounds I've seen shooting at full draw do not appear crooked, when shooting for real. Can anyone shed a light on this?


It has to do with the fact that the grip is about in the center of the bow (vertically), where as the nocking point is above center. If you are holding the bow in the center and pulling the string from a point above center it is going to "crook" the bow.

The reason they do not "crook" when you are shooting them is the way you apply the force to the grip and that your draw arm is above your bow arm. 
If you were to take a picture at full draw and make a line from limb to limb and from nock to grip, you would see the same funny angle as you do on the drawboard. When someone is shooting we do tend to reference on the horisontal ground (or the arrow which is square to the sting and a2a line) and true vertical (which is about the a2a line).

I guess all and all it comes down to your draw arm is about the same distance above yor bow arm as the nock is above the grip (this may seem simple) but if you take a picure and draw the lines I referd to earlier you will see the same angle as on the drawboard

I hope this helps more than it confuses, maybe someone can put it in better words.

Mitch


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## Dodgedude (Jan 29, 2005)

Good answer Mitch! Makes sense to me anyway.

I made my draw board out of 2 2x6's put together in a T shape( for my workmate bench.) I used a 1- 1/4" dowel for the peg for the handle. The other end of the board has a 1" slot cut in the middle, about 6" deep. 1/2" rod runs though the end. Cable come-along hooks on the rod, and made a loop out of release rope to connect the other hook to the d-loop.

Mine look about like the rest, except Javi's, (he's showing off LOL)


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## WoolyWelsh (Sep 9, 2006)

Thanks Mitch. Your explanation lays it out well! 

a2a = axle-to-axle?


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## Rexxer (Jul 30, 2005)

In Java"s picture if you drew a line between each cam the bow string would be drawn back at a 90 degree angle.Some of the other boards this wouldn't be true.If using a board that allows something not being a true 90 at full draw give you a false cam timing.Say if your bow is at full draw on a draw boad that isn't 90,notice your cam position and rotate bow so it is 90.Does the cam rotation change?this would be more like holding your bow.
I don't know the right answer,I'm just asking!Maybe Java or some of the experts could give us a answer.


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## practice-more (Nov 10, 2005)

WoolyWelsh said:


> a2a = axle-to-axle?


Right on.


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## acal (Jan 13, 2003)

*Tuning Board/Draw Length*

I am shooting with a 27 inch drawlength. I also have never used a tuning board.

When tuning my bow in the tuning board, do I draw it to 25 1/4 inches rather than 27 inches because of AMO draw lenght specifications ? 

Going on AMO specs, at my draw length, the measurement to the deepest part of the grip will be 25 1/4 inches, add 1 3/4 inches per AMO standards, and I will get my 27 inch draw length.

Also, is it necessary to keep the bow at 90 degrees in the tuning board.

Thank you for the help.


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

The E.L.P. Bowpress with the Time Machine does a great job and I never have to leave the press when timing and synchronizing the cams. I can even set the draw length in the press.


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## Purka (Sep 8, 2004)

This is something I put together out of bits and pieces, 9yrs. ago as a temporary item, to synchronize a twin cam, and check draw length etc. I'm still useing it. the winch came off a bow press.
With a caliper release attached, it shoots bullet holes in paper.


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## WR (Aug 28, 2002)

*CrankBoards*

Punch, heeres a few i've saved pictures of ..... never did get around to building one :-( ...... I don't remember who posted some of them.


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## WR (Aug 28, 2002)

Crankboard 1


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## WR (Aug 28, 2002)

Crankboard 2


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## WR (Aug 28, 2002)

Crankboard 3


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## WR (Aug 28, 2002)

T Bailleys Crankboard


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## WR (Aug 28, 2002)

Heeres mine :-( ...... rubber covered hook in a ceiling joist in my basement, still using it to make quick checks on cam timing ....... just hook your d-loop over the hook and try and pull off the center of th grip.


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## Bellows1 (Oct 19, 2003)

Is there anything to keep the bow secured, or is just the pressure in the grip hold it in place?


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## intheXring22 (Jul 6, 2005)

I dont secure mine anymore. I used to tie it down and time my cams. I would pull the bow off draw back and they would be out of time. I took the harness off and re-timed the cams and never had the problem again.


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## tjwood (Oct 30, 2006)

So just to get things totally, clear, is the advice to let the bow freely pivot by having just a dowel post supporting the grip or to 'fix' the riser down to the draw board so that it can't move and so that the string in perpendicular to the to the line of the nock travel when the bow is drawn.  
Sorry if this seems a dumb question but it's something I've been trying to decide upon for a while. I'm just in the process of building my draw board and as my cam timing is already way off I don't want to make it any worse by inducing problems with the draw board.
Thanks
Tony


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

Either way.:wink: 

If you have the riser secured then the other end needs to move to compensate for nock travel with it this way nock travel could be easily mapped. If the riser floats then the other end can be fixed as to not move but this makes it more dificult to measure nock travel. If one end will not move for nock travel you will not benefit from the machines full poential. The Time Machine that attaches to our presses is able to move for nock travel thus providing you with accurate readings. By doing so we can properly map a bows nock travel in our press but it takes an understanding of how to properly set and use the machine to do so.


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## intheXring22 (Jul 6, 2005)

With the board shown here and the one like I have let the riser float freely.


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## pyroarch57 (Jul 13, 2006)

If you`re checking for accurate nock travel you MUST have the bow firmly secured.


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

pyroarch57 said:


> If you`re checking for accurate nock travel you MUST have the bow firmly secured.


You are correct sir. If the riser is allowed to float you can make it seem like any cam system has straight nock travel.


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## tjwood (Oct 30, 2006)

pyroarch57 said:


> If you`re checking for accurate nock travel you MUST have the bow firmly secured.


So, Pyroarch if NMP's posting is correct (and I think I follow his reasoning), the winch on your draw board is floating, not fixed, right? 

If the bow is firmly fixed down and the winch is also fixed that must mean that the nock will be 'forced' by the tension between the winch and the fixed bow to move in a straight line towards the bow even if the nock travel is 'bad' and the nock really wants to follow a curved line of travel. It will want to follow the path of least resistance - a straight line. With both the bow and the winch fixed, I can't see how the nock could move any way but in a straight line. The bow will be trying to move to equalize the stresses in both limbs but won't be able to because it is fixed. I guess that's fine if you want to 'trick' yourself into believing that the nock travel is perfect, but not so good if you want to see the actual, real nock travel.

However, if the winch is fixed and the bow is free to rotate at the pressure/pivot point, the nock will still travel in a straight line directly to the bow, but the riser will rotate around the pivot point to mimic the nock's curved travel. Now I'm not saying that this setup makes it easy to plot the nock travel as it will be the riser that moves out of position and not the nock but I think it is a more accurate view of what is actually happening than having both the winch and the bow fixed.

I think the best way (in my humble opinion) is to have the bow fixed. Then have the winch flexibly mounted so that it is 'free' to swing in an arc, as the position of the nock changes. That way, the nock travel will swing the winch to reflect the position that the nock wants to be in as the string returns to the bow and will more accurately show any curvature in the nock travel. However, I haven't quite worked out how to build that bit yet as I've only lumps of timber to play with but I think it should be possible.

Of course, I don't expect anyone will agree with me ! :set1_rolf2:


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

tjwood said:


> So, Pyroarch if NMP's posting is correct (and I think I follow his reasoning), the winch on your draw board is floating, not fixed, right?
> 
> If the bow is firmly fixed down and the winch is also fixed that must mean that the nock will be 'forced' by the tension between the winch and the fixed bow to move in a straight line towards the bow even if the nock travel is 'bad' and the nock really wants to follow a curved line of travel. It will want to follow the path of least resistance - a straight line. With both the bow and the winch fixed, I can't see how the nock could move any way but in a straight line. The bow will be trying to move to equalize the stresses in both limbs but won't be able to because it is fixed. I guess that's fine if you want to 'trick' yourself into believing that the nock travel is perfect, but not so good if you want to see the actual, real nock travel.
> 
> ...



Very well said. Something that some do to minimize the effects on nock travel is to get the winch as far away from the bow as possible but to me that is not a solution. I believe that you totally understand how to measure travel accurately.:thumbs_up


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## practice-more (Nov 10, 2005)

tjwood,

I see what you are saying, and I agree.  If you are trying to observe nock travel it would be great if the bow was fixed and the winch was able to swing. 
Now I am wondering where the pivot point of the winch shoule be:
1: In the grip of the bow - I don't think so
2: About where the berger hole is - maybe, but not sure
3: where the nock is when the bow is at rest - again not sure

I think it has to be either 2 or 3, but I have yet to get out a pen and paper (or my CAD software) to concider it farther.

Then again if you could fix the bow and draw with a long screw you could fix a 6" crossmember on the screw. Now by simply making a "cart" (which is what would attach to the string/d-loop) that was fixed to the crossmember with rollers, it could slide left to right on the crossmember as it was "screwed" down drawing the bow. Now the rollers woudl have to be very smooth, as to provide no resistance to the cart moving left or right. (which corsponds to up/down nock travel if the bow is horizontal and the screw is vertical)
This woudl also allow for great cam timing with the bow being fixed because with the cart able to slide you would be sure to have equal tension on both limbs just as you do when you are shooting. Something that is not easily obtained with most drawboards where the bow is fixed because they must aline the winch perpandicular to the bow, and even with the nock.

Wow, it makes sence to me, I hope someone else can understand it.

Mitch


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## pyroarch57 (Jul 13, 2006)

You most definitely do not need the winch to swing. As the string is drawn, the winch position will not alter the nock travel due to the slackness in let-off and the fact that there is (possibly) more string one side than the other. It will settle into the right position, exactly.


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

It should be as close to in line with the path that the arrow would take when being drawn. I try to set up all of my bows with the arrow directly in front of the berger hole as possible. Our presses are able to allow you to do this with any bow (as far as we know) because they do not have a defined center. All you need is an E.L.P. Bowpress with the Time Machine attachment, a level, a plumbob, and a pen & paper to right down the results.


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

pyroarch57 said:


> You most definitely do not need the winch to swing. As the string is drawn, the winch position will not alter the nock travel due to the slackness in let-off and the fact that there is (possibly) more string one side than the other. It will settle into the right position, exactly.


With the extra rope that you have left over at full draw the ill effects of both points being fixed will be minimal but remember that anytime that you try to pull an object to a fixed point it will try to take a straight path to that point and may influence its natural path.


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## pyroarch57 (Jul 13, 2006)

NMP said:


> With the extra rope that you have left over at full draw the ill effects of both points being fixed will be minimal but remember that anytime that you try to pull an object to a fixed point it will try to take a straight path to that point and may influence its natural path.


 Yes i understand what you are saying but in this case it doesn`t happen that way.
I even removed the central eyebolt to see if it made any difference, but even when the rope was pulling from the left side or the right side of the winch drum it made no difference to the nock travel whatsoever. If you have uneven nock travel it will settle exactly in it`s natural place. Believe me it`s been fully tried and tested and it is extremely accurate.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

So can someone answer the question for sure since it has been stated both ways on here. To time the cams can you just have the peg in the grip throat when you time your cams or does the bow have to be stabilized on the draw so that it doesnt tilt from side to side. Now this if for timing your cams only and not for any nock travel as I am only interested in the cam timing part


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## pyroarch57 (Jul 13, 2006)

Spotshooter2 said:


> So can someone answer the question for sure since it has been stated both ways on here. To time the cams can you just have the peg in the grip throat when you time your cams or does the bow have to be stabilized on the draw so that it doesnt tilt from side to side. Now this if for timing your cams only and not for any nock travel as I am only interested in the cam timing part


Yes you can.


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## bow_hunter44 (Apr 20, 2007)

WR said:


> Heeres mine :-( ...... rubber covered hook in a ceiling joist in my basement, still using it to make quick checks on cam timing ....... just hook your d-loop over the hook and try and pull off the center of th grip.



That looks a lot like mine!!


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## Nuwwave (May 20, 2009)

Maybe I'm wrong (probably) but my thoughts are if you have a bolt (point A) to hold the riser at the grip pivot and the wench (point B) positioned anywhere, wouldn't it pull in a straight line between the two and the bow will move to adjust for any imbalance and still give you a accurate nock travel?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Nuwwave said:


> Maybe I'm wrong (probably) but my thoughts are if you have a bolt (point A) to hold the riser at the grip pivot and the wench (point B) positioned anywhere, wouldn't it pull in a straight line between the two and the bow will move to adjust for any imbalance and still give you a accurate nock travel?


Assumption #1.

Let's assume you have a fixed winch bolted to the end of a 12-foot long board.

Let's assume you have ONE pipe, covered in garden hose,
and you place the bow grip (deepest part of the curve)
on the pipe, so the bow can rotate freely.


Now,
IF YOU WANT TO MEASURE nock travel,
which means,
you want to graph the movement of the nock,
and see if the SHAPE of the top cam/idler wheel

and

you want to see if the SHAPE of the bottom cam

are working together,
as both metal things are rotating....

the bow will rotate back and forth,
if there is any MIS-MATCH
for the starting rotation position
as the bow goes from full draw
to the at rest position,
and you will end up with a relatively straight graph line...

which means,
you get ZERO information.


So,
to be clear,
IF you had a $100,000 dollar high speed video camera,
which can record up to 8000 frames per second....

when you fire a bow in a shooters hand...

the bow weight/mass is soooooo large,
compared to the weight/mass of the arrow...

that during the very short fractions of a second,
after you release an arrow,
to the instant that the arrow nock comes off the string...

the bow riser does NOT move..

the bow riser does NOT rotate.


Let's assume we have a bow firing the arrow at say 280 feet per second.

Let's say we have a 8-inch brace height.

Let's say we have a 30-inch draw length,
which means the "true draw" is 1.75-inches shorter,
so the "true draw" is 28.25-inches.

Therefore,
the power stroke (distance the nock is attached to the bowstring)
is "true draw" minus "brace height" = 28.25-inches minus 8-inches
= 20.25-inches of nock distance travelled, until the nock lets go of the string.

NOTE: we are ignoring the over-travel distance.


So, 280 fps over a distance of 20.25-inches of travel = 0.006 seconds
or 6 thousandths of a second.


So,
if you want to measure IF your top limb is pulling with the same energy
as the bottom limb, and how the starting rotation position for the top cam
compares to the starting rotation position for the bottom cam...

and if you want to see the effects of the bowstring wrapping around the top cam, 

and if you want to see the effects of the bowstring wrapping around the bottom cam...

and you want to know if the top and bottom cams are
working together evenly or not working together evenly...

you have to simulate what happens over 0.006 seconds....

which means,
the bow riser does NOT move,
during the nock travel from full draw
to the point where the nock leaves the bowstring.


Lock down the riser,
for a nock travel measuring device.


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## ozbillb (Dec 27, 2008)

If you secure the riser then I'm assuming some of the draw force is then effectively applied to the riser itself at a point (or points) other than the grip.

As the bow is designed to have all the force holding it at the grip will that cause any unnatural and possibly damaging stresses on the riser?

Also, as a bows riser supposedly flexes when a bow draws/ fires will securing the riser remove this ability for the riser to flex & again possibly put unnatural and damaging stresses on the riser?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ozbillb said:


> If you secure the riser then I'm assuming some of the draw force is then effectively applied to the riser itself at a point (or points) other than the grip.
> 
> As the bow is designed to have all the force holding it at the grip will that cause any unnatural and possibly damaging stresses on the riser?
> 
> Also, as a bows riser supposedly flexes when a bow draws/ fires will securing the riser remove this ability for the riser to flex & again possibly put unnatural and damaging stresses on the riser?



To get actual empirical data,
a 4000 to 8000 frame per second high speed video camera
is the way to get true nock travel documentation.

The high speed video camera would video document,
and then a Hooter Shooter could do the firing of the bow.


Since most of us do not have access to the high speed video camera,
the a fixed riser measuring device is the only way
we can attempt to kinda sorta measure nock travel.

A home made jig will not simulate accurately
the three dimensional behavior of the riser.

Yes,
a riser experiences torsion (twisting).

Yes,
a riser will also experience harmonics
(riser will oscillate - rebound back and forth at the 1/1000ths of an inch level).


The torsion and harmonics behavior will not affect nock travel (vertical plane)
enough that this will influence a half twist in cable length.

Nock travel measurement using a static, fixed riser home made jig,
even one as advanced as Old Buck's jig,
still only gets you to a starting point.


The stiffness (lateral and torsion) far exceeds the yield stress and plastic limit
for the 6061 aluminum alloy (translation - the riser will not be hurt) during testing.

"plastic limit" is the amount of bending (deflection) where the metal will not spring back to it's original position or another way to put it,
when you bend metal "too far", it stays bent forever.

So,
fixing a riser to a board,
and pulling the bowstring
actually puts LESS bending stress on the riser,
because the riser has more support.

When you put a bow riser on a single pivot point,
the top and bottom of the riser will bend MORE
(we are talking 1/1000ths of an inch here).


So,
even if we attempt to measure and adjust nock travel
with a fixed riser home made nock travel measuring device...

and we use this information to adjust cable lengths,
to get "optimum" nock travel...

still gotta go to the practice range
and make a few more real world tuning adjustments.


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## jim46ok (Oct 9, 2008)

*Drawboard and Shooting Machine*

This arrangement is way convenient, being able to Laser Tune or Measure Tune for nock travel, and shoot the bow mechanically to tune for consistency. I liked the one I built for myself so much, I started the Company.
*KWIK-SHOOTER*~ $549

[email protected]


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