# ACG vs ACE



## trevorpowdrell (May 8, 2012)

Just go with Carbon One's instead of ACG's.


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

The ACG is at least as effective as the parallel shafts other companies sell as their premiere arrow shafts, with better spine tolerances.


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

Bear in mind that the ACG is much heavier than the ACE, and also slightly heavier than the x10.
I prefer that in an outdoor arrow, but it is something to be mindful of if you are running low on sight space.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

>--gt--> said:


> The ACG is at least as effective as the parallel shafts other companies sell as their premiere arrow shafts, with better spine tolerances.


What are the spine selection tolerances of the ACG, ACE, and X10? I've never seen these published.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

>--gt--> said:


> The ACG is at least as effective as the parallel shafts other companies sell as their premiere arrow shafts, with better spine tolerances.


A true statement, depending on which shaft and which company. I see that although George is usually the first to belittle speculation, he is more than willing to do so if it favors his employer...

ACG's cannot compare to CX Nano Pro's, and I'd personally choose McKinney II's over them as well. But then, I've shot all of them too, so I can only speak from first hand knowlege. 

When I switched from Navigators (the precursor to ACG's) to A/C/E's in late 2003, my fita score jumped almost immediately by over 30 points, and my 70 meter average jumped by 10. 

Get the A/C/E's. They are still one of the top 3 or 4 arrows a recurve archer can choose. 

Best use for A/C/G's these days if by compounders at 50 meters.

John


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I shoot both ACE, Navigators and ACG. I change to the heavier arrow for shorter distances, specifically 70 meters and in, because I need the extra weight to get a better barebow sight point. The ACG are definitely slower. I have shot this combinationin tournaments for about 3 years now -- going to the slower Navigators at either 70 or 50 depending on the bow I am shooting.

Here is some of my test data.

Using 37 pound Border HEX5 , 43 pounds at 32 inches

ACE 344 gr, 202 fps
Navigators 414 gr, 185 fps

Both are full length 430 and tune the same. I can change between arrows without retuning.

I recently got some ACG. They give me about the same sight points as the Navigators so I assume that they are similar in speed.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> They give me about the same sight points as the Navigators so I assume that they are similar in speed


They're similar in more than just speed.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> They're similar in more than just speed.


You are right. When I first saw the spec's I thought that they had a bigger diameter. I measured them and they were the same. They have a different paint job, though.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

>--gt--> said:


> The ACG is at least as effective as the parallel shafts other companies sell as their premiere arrow shafts, with better spine tolerances.


From what I have heard other companies don't have 2-3 flyers in every dozen. I always hate buying ace's because everytime I get 2 or 3 shafts that just don't group as a bare shaft.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

julle,

To be fair, I never had that many fliers in a dozen A/C/E's. I found them (at least the 4 or 5 doz. that I used over the course of a couple years) to be more consistent, and easier to tune, than X10's. Every dozen X10's I received had at least one arrow that was totally unuseable, and two or three others I'd mark for practice only.

A/C/G' - Navigators were and are good arrows. For years, my highest indoor NFAA score was shot with those and I had a student shoot them with great effect up to his Cadet national title. But after 60 meters, the weight of those starts to really show up.

I would agree that the carbon one has all but rendered the A/C/G obsolete for recurvers, but the A/C/G is still a near perfect balance between price and performance for compound archers these days, since they are handicapped to 50 meters anymore.

The equivalent CX shaft would be the Medallion Pro, which incidentally accepts the same internal diameter components as the A/C/G. I won't go into tolerances between them since I've not personally shot Medallion Pro's.


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## julle (Mar 1, 2009)

Well I bought 2 dozen about 6 months ago, 1 had 2 arrows and the other 3 that almost missed the target consistently at 70 meters.... the rest where all grouped in the red or better. Fletched I couldn't tell a difference though.... A dozen I bought a year earlier also had 1 or 2 fliers.... Maybe it's the newer H series that's less consistent.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

John, for groups 02 - T3 where the ACG shaft has approx the same weight as the ACE, do you still see an advantage with the ACE in your coaching experience?


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

I've used Cartel Triple for a number of years now. They work great for me. Easy to tune and really no flyers. They give me the spped I need at any distance. I used to shoot X10's and ACE's. But the triples seem to work great and are more affordable.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I also shot Cartel Triples for a little while in 2003. In fact, I think I had two dozen of them in between my Navigators and my A/C/E's. My triples couldn't hang with A/C/E's on their best day. They are just behind the quality of Navigator/ACG's in my opinion. Good for their intended audience, but not really all "that" good.

Andrew, yours is a great question. The answer in my opinion is NO. In the weaker spines, the A/C/G and A/C/E (and A/C/C for that matter) are so close in specifications, and so close in profile that I don't see why anyone would pay the extra $ for ACE's. Case in point, one of my students who has consistently been at the top spot in the U.S. for her division and has won multiple national titles, still shoots A/C/C's outdoors because the difference between them and A/C/E's is insignificant for her.

My rule of thumb for growing students would be something like A/C/C's up to 1400 spine, then A/C/G's up through 1000, then A/C/E's up through 600, then X10's above that. 

John


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> I also shot Cartel Triples for a little while in 2003. In fact, I think I had two dozen of them in between my Navigators and my A/C/E's. My triples couldn't hang with A/C/E's on their best day. They are just behind the quality of Navigator/ACG's in my opinion. Good for their intended audience, but not really all "that" good.
> 
> Andrew, yours is a great question. The answer in my opinion is NO. In the weaker spines, the A/C/G and A/C/E (and A/C/C for that matter) are so close in specifications, and so close in profile that I don't see why anyone would pay the extra $ for ACE's. Case in point, one of my students who has consistently been at the top spot in the U.S. for her division and has won multiple national titles, still shoots A/C/C's outdoors because the difference between them and A/C/E's is insignificant for her.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input John.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I use the ACG and Navigators since they are completely interchangeable with my ACE. They give me two different weight options to help with sight points, without having to change my bow. For that, they are worth the extra expense. Otherwise, I can see your point about the Carbon One making the ACG obsolete. I just hope that they do not stop making the ACG. I also like a carbon aluminum arrow since they are easier to find with a metal detector. That can make up for the cost different really quickly if you tend to throw an occassoinal bad arrow. It is a barebow thing.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

And a JOAD thing...


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

Want to thank everyone for all the replies, very informative! Looks like I should save my pennies and re-up on the ACEs.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I've shot with ACE's for eight years straight now, I've had some triples, navis, Mck2's, nanos, X10's for some different purposes/testing, but I've not found as comfortable and consistent arrow yet. My 32 5/8" arrow length might have something to do with it, though.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

zal, unfortunately the A/C/E has become a bit of a lost arrow in all the marketing shuffle and the new competition from other brands. If I shot an Easton arrow, it would most likely be an A/C/E. I shot X10's for two years and was never able to beat my scores that I had set with the A/C/E's.

John


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> I also shot Cartel Triples for a little while in 2003. In fact, I think I had two dozen of them in between my Navigators and my A/C/E's. My triples couldn't hang with A/C/E's on their best day. They are just behind the quality of Navigator/ACG's in my opinion. Good for their intended audience, but not really all "that" good.
> 
> Andrew, yours is a great question. The answer in my opinion is NO. In the weaker spines, the A/C/G and A/C/E (and A/C/C for that matter) are so close in specifications, and so close in profile that I don't see why anyone would pay the extra $ for ACE's. Case in point, one of my students who has consistently been at the top spot in the U.S. for her division and has won multiple national titles, still shoots A/C/C's outdoors because the difference between them and A/C/E's is insignificant for her.
> 
> ...


that's pretty close to what I recommend. Ian jumped from 1500 spined ACC to 1250 ACE because I got a set of ACEs cheap from Joe McGlyn whose student grew really quickly. Ian has shot ACC indoor for a few years and continues that. He has grown a bunch and is pulling 36 pound limbs (HPX, short) and for outdoor (his first year in Cadet this year) probably gonna go with another set of ACEs since he has a short draw and needs the speed though I do have a ton of 1000 Spined x10s if he grows a bit more.

I like the ACGs and find they are slightly more consistent than the triples. I use triples and ACG/Navigators for my practice outdoor arrows saving the X10s for tournaments (I shoot CT MCKII in field)

indoors I shoot ACCs


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## larcher90 (Dec 8, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> I also shot Cartel Triples for a little while in 2003. In fact, I think I had two dozen of them in between my Navigators and my A/C/E's. My triples couldn't hang with A/C/E's on their best day. They are just behind the quality of Navigator/ACG's in my opinion. Good for their intended audience, but not really all "that" good.
> 
> Andrew, yours is a great question. The answer in my opinion is NO. In the weaker spines, the A/C/G and A/C/E (and A/C/C for that matter) are so close in specifications, and so close in profile that I don't see why anyone would pay the extra $ for ACE's. Case in point, one of my students who has consistently been at the top spot in the U.S. for her division and has won multiple national titles, still shoots A/C/C's outdoors because the difference between them and A/C/E's is insignificant for her.
> 
> ...



And for those of us who stopped growing at the lower spines? I'm quite happy with my ACGs (shooting 35#, 26" DL, 880s), and I know that even if I do need a third dozen eventually, it won't kill my student-sized budget to do so. Even a few spines beyond 1000, the ACGs match ACEs for weight, though I don't know how important the barrelling might be. Anyone want to enlighten me? I'm actually quite pleased to see people who use the ACG, from what I've seen around here it's sort of the forgotten cousin of the ACE these days.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The barrelling is important for clearance, but if you aren't experiencing clearance issues, then there really is not enough difference between the two arrows to even worry about.

John


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