# Finger shooting a Shadowcat question



## eric schmaus (Mar 7, 2011)

You should have spent another 200.00 and gotten a Hoyt Vantage LTD!


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Why on Earth would I want a POS Hoyt. I have shot them and they are garbage in my opion.
If you don't have anything to help with what I asked don't toss out any lame reminder about posting rules, thanks, Pierre Couture.
Don.



eric schmaus said:


> You should have spent another 200.00 and gotten a Hoyt Vantage LTD!


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

eric schmaus said:


> You should have spent another 200.00 and gotten a Hoyt Vantage LTD!


Nice second post!! AT doesn't need more troublemakers!! If you are here for our motto "archers helping archers" then WELCOME!!! If not, maybe you should try another site!! I'm going to say...Welcome to AT!!!


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## fuelracerpat (May 6, 2008)

Spine and draw weight? Sounds like a very weak spined shaft. Or, maybe excessive torque on the riser? I don't shoot the 'Cat so the real particulars are beyond me. The sight picture you describe...are you holding that far off the bale? Or is this just the way the bow lines up in respect to the stabilizer?
On my Barnsdales they don't line up with the stabilizer either, so I don't know if that would even be a concern.
I don't concern myself with paper tuning and fingers. I will occasionally baffle myself with a bareshaft... it is usually not too educational either, so... I just shoot my fletched arrows, set the nock-set up to where I get decent flight and try not to have too much contact on the rest. We do tend to "bag of tricks" ourselves rather often and rather unnecessarily. my .02cents. YMMV


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

I am shooting a shaft rated for 65# and I have my bow set at 57#, 28" long arrow, berger button with a flipper rest. I covered the entire rest area with powder and shot some shafts to see if I was hitting anything and there are no marks. I guess the shaft doesn't have to line up with the sabilizer. I shoot with an open grip on the fatty base part of the thumb so I dont think I am torqueing the bow, I have my son stand behind me at full draw and watch when I shoot to see if it torqueing. You can see in this pic how my bow hand is.
Don.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

Hi checked my cat, I'm inside of center according to the stab but looks ok if you line up with the center of grip.My nock is set about 3/16 I release 1 finger under and shoot 60 lb 29.75 inch with 350 spined arrows. tiller is set 1/2 turn closer on the bottom limb and timing set even.I use two tied nock points one above and one below.and use a cavalier micro tune rest.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Mark,
When you say your tiller is a 1/2 turn closer on the bottom limb, do you mean you tighten the bottom limb a 1/2 turn more than the top? My timing is set even also.
I would love to have my knocking point tied on but I don't know how to do that. That would keep my nose from getting cut all the time from that dumb crimp on knock.



vkrules said:


> Hi checked my cat, I'm inside of center according to the stab but looks ok if you line up with the center of grip.My nock is set about 3/16 I release 1 finger under and shoot 60 lb 29.75 inch with 350 spined arrows. tiller is set 1/2 turn closer on the bottom limb and timing set even.I use two tied nock points one above and one below.and use a cavalier micro tune rest.


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

zestycj7 said:


> I am shooting a shaft rated for 65# and I have my bow set at 57#, 28" long arrow, berger button with a flipper rest. I covered the entire rest area with powder and shot some shafts to see if I was hitting anything and there are no marks. I guess the shaft doesn't have to line up with the sabilizer. I shoot with an open grip on the fatty base part of the thumb so I dont think I am torqueing the bow, I have my son stand behind me at full draw and watch when I shoot to see if it torqueing. You can see in this pic how my bow hand is.
> Don.
> View attachment 1023797


Hi Don, a couple of quick things with the Cat!! Make sure your cable guard has your cables as close to the center line of the bow as possible while still allowing the proper vane clearance!! This is very important on the Shadowcat. Also, do you have access to a draw-board?? This will allow you to accurately check your cam timing. If not, have you checked your cam timing with the draw stop completely out of the way? Mark your draw stop (so you can go right back to the same location) and then move it back, completely out of the way. Then see if your cam draw stops are hitting at the same time. Have someone watch them for you as you get to full draw. The bow will obviously feel long in the draw, but it's important to set the cam properly. After you've gotten the cams set as close as possible, then move your main draw stop back to its original position on the bottom cam. Then you can make small adjustments in tiller (as you would being a finger shooter). Your form looks very good to me!! .

As far as tying in your nocking point, there are several videos right here on AT showing how to do it!! It's very easy and can be done with dental floss if you don't have the actual material. Just check the search function!!


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

Yes thats right bottom limb 1/2 a turn tighter.Tied nock points are easy I use dental floss take it around the string a couple of times tie a knot then take it back around to the other side of the string tie another knot( stops the knots bunching on one side of the string) do that a couple times pull tight then I put a couple of drops of superglue on the dental floss (not on the serving) tied nocks also give you a bit more speed.Best to find your nock point first. Do you release fingers under or split. I find fingers under can give you that high nock point as the back of the arrow tries to kick down on release .If you don't have a bottom nock set and a loose nock fit on the string the kick down can be huge. Last guy that posted he had a very high nocking point found he had a split limb, might pay to check. By the way love the shadowcat. martins may not be built like a hoyt but I havn't found a hoyt yet I would trade it for. ( moneys not the issue My other bow is a mathews triumph and I would rather shoot the shadowcat)Hope I have been of some help . us fingerflingers are a dying breed.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

Forgot to say the sts tends to also kick the back of arrow down, especially finger shooters


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

I shoot split fingers, well I guess I still do, had my index finger ripped off in a team roping misshap...dee ta dee. Once I get to full draw I end up holding all the poundage with my ring finger, did that before I lost my index finger too. I will check my cable guard location, I have checked the timing,but not like Nevadapro mentioned, will give that a shot. My tiller is equal top and bottom. I do recall now that back about a 100 years ago when I use to shoot before I lost my finger there was a 1/8 '' difference between the top and bottom limb. 
All this new bow tunning is new to me, I have only been back shooting about a year after a 15 year layoff from losing my finger. Here is a pic of me shooting, you can see my release hand (whats left of it....LOL)
Thanks for all the help, guys.
Don.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

So your holding fingers under.Most who draw split lift some or all the weight off the top finger .


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

I have no choise but to hold under the knock. I tryed useing my middle finger ontop of the knock with my ring and little finger under, no good. So I draw the bow with just my middle and ring fingers sence I lost my index finger and drop my middle finger at full draw. So I am only holding the string with my ring finger.
Don.



vkrules said:


> So your holding fingers under.Most who draw split lift some or all the weight off the top finger .


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

zestycj7 said:


> For the ppl here shooting a Shadowcat with fingers, how do you have the timing and tiller setup? I shoot with a low hold, base pad om thumb. I have been getting a low knock tear in paper and my knock is now at 9/16" to get my arrows so hoot bullet holes.
> I am also way inside of center shot. When I set the bow up center I missed my bales at 20 yards, I was shooting at the center of the bales. If I look down my string and line everything up I am pointing real far to the right of the stabilizer, looks real funny.
> Any help on this would be great, thanks.
> Don.


I had the exact same problem then I found a rather substantial crack in the lower limb. I'm waiting for the new limbs so I can start over. I was hopefull it was the cracked limb causing the issue but after reading this post I suspect it may be a larger issue. I have both the Maxima 250's and 350's and a large assortment of point weights to test. I suspect that will allow me to rule out arrow spine and I'll be able to ID why it is doing it. 

I shoot 2 fingers under. My indoor bow seems to need a high nock and this bow before it blew up also seemed to want a real high nock. I also have one for hunting but it has a Whisker biscuit on it so that seems to be a bit more forgiving but it still has a high nock point. Once I get the 3D bow back together I'll start to do some serious tinkering. If it turns out to be a cam timing issue I'll share my notes.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

NEVADAPRO said:


> Hi Don, a couple of quick things with the Cat!! Make sure your cable guard has your cables as close to the center line of the bow as possible while still allowing the proper vane clearance!! This is very important on the Shadowcat. Also, do you have access to a draw-board?? This will allow you to accurately check your cam timing. If not, have you checked your cam timing with the draw stop completely out of the way? Mark your draw stop (so you can go right back to the same location) and then move it back, completely out of the way. Then see if your cam draw stops are hitting at the same time. Have someone watch them for you as you get to full draw. The bow will obviously feel long in the draw, but it's important to set the cam properly. After you've gotten the cams set as close as possible, then move your main draw stop back to its original position on the bottom cam. Then you can make small adjustments in tiller (as you would being a finger shooter). Your form looks very good to me!! .
> 
> As far as tying in your nocking point, there are several videos right here on AT showing how to do it!! It's very easy and can be done with dental floss if you don't have the actual material. Just check the search function!!


This is interesting since the Martin Cams have a cable post that routinely hits the cable. In order to solve that little problem I had to bump my cable guard out almost to it's maximum. This is only an issue when you are near the maximum draw length of the cams. perhaps I will switch to the cat cams I have and try those.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

b0w_bender said:


> This is interesting since the Martin Cams have a cable post that routinely hits the cable. In order to solve that little problem I had to bump my cable guard out almost to it's maximum. This is only an issue when you are near the maximum draw length of the cams. perhaps I will switch to the cat cams I have and try those.


Mine to ,waiting for my cat 2s to arrive. But not to cloud this issue. Here's a pic of mine


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Nice looking bow vkrules.
My 2nd bow is getting setup for freestyle. I will be shooting it with a scope,3 stbilizers and a relese., this ought to be fun....LOL
My main bow I shoot non-sights and fingers. My freestyle bow will be the first ever bow with any kind of sights on it.
Don.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

No problem Don thats how I hold by choice except I drop off the bottom finger before I release. You can see by the pic that my nocking point is a bit lower than yours I put the square on with the bottom edge down the centreline of the shaft for the pics. if I take off the bottom nock I have to move the nocking point up. Good luck with the freestyle. So far I have resisted going to the release but age may change my mind....... One Day......


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Mark,
I am still going to be shooting bowhunter class, just going to see what freestyle is all about, who knows I might win Vegas some day....LOL
Heck who am I kidding, I am to dang old, 55 now. I can get the old ppl discout at Dennys now.....ROFLMAO
Don.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

Don,I turn 50 in August, be able to shoot in the old farts (senior) divisions soon. Tried using a scope thought it would help with the failing eyesight, but I've lost my far and close sight ,so it made it worse . Anyway you know what they say you are only as old as the women you feel( got to trade mine in for a later model ) off to shoot some arrows now . Mark


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

I've got a few questions. I've been considering the purchase of the 2011 ShadowCat with the new STS and cable guard. I don't know if that would change anything about it. But my questions are

A) If I shoot 2 under and one over, how do I ensure that the Nitro 2 cams are properly synchronised? (30.5-31 inch draw). Are there marks on the cam to help set it up?

B) At that draw length, is the ShawdoCat finicky about arrow spine, or is it tolerant? I've been considering CX 350s in Hunter KV, with a top draw weight of 60 pounds.

Thanks


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Pierre Couture said:


> A) If I shoot 2 under and one over, how do I ensure that the Nitro 2 cams are properly synchronised? (30.5-31 inch draw). Are there marks on the cam to help set it up?
> 
> B) At that draw length, is the ShawdoCat finicky about arrow spine, or is it tolerant? I've been considering CX 350s in Hunter KV, with a top draw weight of 60 pounds.


A) You can take off the draw stop and watch the cams as they rotate around to hit the modules. If they both hit at the same time you're good. if they don't then twisting the cables will allow you to adjust them.
B) I'll feel better about answering this question after the problem that initiated this thread is resolved. (My gut tells me it is not the arrow that is the issue but stay tuned)


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

b0w_bender said:


> A) You can take off the draw stop and watch the cams as they rotate around to hit the modules. If they both hit at the same time you're good. if they don't then twisting the cables will allow you to adjust them.
> B) I'll feel better about answering this question after the problem that initiated this thread is resolved. (My gut tells me it is not the arrow that is the issue but stay tuned)


Will do! :cheers:


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Well I did everything I could think of to see if I might have a cracked limb, could not find any. I checked and rechecked my timing and it's spot on. I readjusted my tiller but wasn't able to shoot, it was way to dark.
I did forget to mention that this happening with new arrows. My Easton epics fly great with my knocking point at 1/4 " above center.
Don.


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## ferd (Feb 7, 2003)

I have found that paper is a good place to start but with my Cats I need to do a good walk back tune and then bare shaft. After I bare shaft it I never think about paper again. Sometimes when I set up a bow I never shoot paper at all but go straight to walk back tuning. Might not even bare shaft a bow if the arrow is flying the way I think it should. Its my opinion that most of us over think our set-ups instead of making proper consistent shot execution.

I shoot two fingers under and drop some pressure off my ring holding mostly with my middle finger. My knocking point is about 1/16" high and arrow center is somewhat to the inside of stabilizer. Sometimes when I draw back, I see how far inside of the stabilizer my arrow is and I have to remind my self that if the arrow is flying well to forget it and just shoot. 

I have had the problem of the cable hitting the post but a limb and cam change seems to have corrected that problem. I have heard of some who grind the post a little to correct this problem. 

The most difficult part of the Cat set-up for fingers I had is the small adjustments needed to get the holding weight of the bow where I want it in relationship to the draw length and how it effects the valley. Hard to make minute adjustments to the draw stop peg.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Anyone ever tried bare shaft paper shooting? I've used it on my old clunker to great effect, but it's a slower bow, although almost all the dimensions are very close to the ShadowCat.


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## eaglecaps (Nov 4, 2009)

I've had just about every brand of bow out there. My "POS" Hoyts have never had limb cracking problems....and if they did I'd never buy another....never had a tuning problem...EVER! Good luck w what you've got and happy tuning!!!!!


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Was I asking any questions from anyone with a bow other tham a Martin..NO I wasn't. So why were you even here looking at this thread, just looking to bash on a bow other that a Hoyt?
If you have no help to offer shut the Radio edit No text masking here please, Pierre Couture up.
Don.



eaglecaps said:


> I've had just about every brand of bow out there. My "POS" Hoyts have never had limb cracking problems....and if they did I'd never buy another....never had a tuning problem...EVER! Good luck w what you've got and happy tuning!!!!!


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Quick reminder to everyone about posting rules... I'm not a mod for finger shooters, but the rules are the same here, no matter what the forum, so please behave.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Sorry everyone, just tired of ppl invadeing a thread they have on business posting in. I asked Shadowcat shooters and no one else.
Don.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Understandable. Although prospective ShadowCat shooters are allowed to chime in? :wink:


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, prospective Shadowcat shooters are welcome.
Don.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

eaglecaps said:


> I've had just about every brand of bow out there. My "POS" Hoyts have never had limb cracking problems....


Well I've owned nearly every bow too. Hoyt is not without it's problems, I have had problems with Hoyt's cheap over priced plastic parts and I'll never shoot one of their bows ever again!
good luck over spending and dealing with customer service that refuses to help the archer and will only talk to their dealers. 

Yes I had a Martin limb crack, I chalk that up to a company trying to find the highest performing materials and processes available. They don't stick with the safe same o same o. It's not like they are hiding it. They have replaced every cracked limb from every bow with a problem. They are perfectly willing to deal direct with you if your willing to tear down your own bow. That kinda customer service goes a long way with me. 

Hoyt made me drive 80 miles to get a 15.00 injected molded part (should have cost 50 cents). This simple part was apparently to baffling for the CS dept because they shipped the wrong part 3 times each time it took them over 3 weeks to ship the next set of wrong parts. It took me over 6 months to get it replaced. I lost an entire season because of those jokers. I bought 2 martins for what that Hoyt cost and you know there isn't on piece of plastic anywhere on it. 

So Fernando frontrunner you can keep them *&($# Hoyts.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK Got my new limbs from Martin (Less than a week) 
I re-installed them and used the Cat2 cams that I have. The high nock behavior did not go away! It still wants a real high nock. I set the poundage at my preferred draw weight of 57#
After testing both the 350 and 250 Maxima 3d's I found that the correct spined arrows seem to be the Maxima 250's with a 29" arrow and a 100 grain point. I have it setup to nearly a center shot. With the 75 grain point it ripped to to the right with the 125 it ripped to the left so to achieve the center shot alignment the 100gr point was the ticket. I was shooting perfect bullet holes. But that %^[email protected])&*^! nock point is still way high! I tried adjusting the tiller to make the space at the top be higher and it had no affect.

I have quadruple checked the came timing and it is perfect. I haven't started messing with it yet. I figured I would get the bullet hole and then fiddle with the timing to see what causes a higher tear.

Now tell the truth doesn't this look ridiculous!


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

That is the same with mine. I have checked and double checked everthing I can think of. No matter what I change it is no different.
Don.


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

Sure does look strange.How does it shoot?Would be an interesting test to try a release aid hook under and see what it does.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

vkrules said:


> Sure does look strange.How does it shoot?Would be an interesting test to try a release aid hook under and see what it does.


Agreed I have a roped back tension I'll try that.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

The back tension release makes the nocking point drop 1/8" 

I also added on the peep sight and that allowed the nock to drop 1/8" so I thought what the heck put on a kisser button and see what that does. With the kisser I had to move it back up that 1/8" I gained.

Next I took off the STS, aside from the bow seeming to have more kick and vibration the arrows flew the same. So I can't blame the STS

With the kisser and the peep on there I noticed I was getting a left tear. I moved the rest in a bit and that went away. Now I am getting bullet tears from the 250's and decent slight left tears with the 350's.
Next I got an old 2117 aluminum arrow with a 125 head which based on my recollection from the way back machine, should have been in the correct spine range and it flew similar to the 350 arrows
CXL 350's and CXL hunter 350's all flew about the same. with a slight left tear.

So based on my experiment using 5 different arrows in every case they all liked the 1/2 to 5/8 high nock. even with a back tension release.

Let the head scratching continue!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK I switched the bottom limb to the top just in case there was a discrepancy in the limbs.
- apparently there wasn't any limb discrepancies since nothing in the arrow tuning changed it was exactly the same.

I then noticed that the cable guard was at the minimum clearance it looked like the vanes were missing it by about 1/8" and there were no wear marks on the cables but I figured i would bump it out just a bit to ensure there would be no future clearance issues. Well I tried to nudge it out just an 1/8" but it jumped out 3/8" so I said the heck with it that will ensure there is no contact. I tighten it down that way.

WOW what a difference I had to move the nock down 3/8" to get decent arrow flight. I'm reasonably certain that it was not hitting the cable but something about bumping the cable guard out made a drastic difference in the nock position. My guess is that that little bit of extra friction causes the string to move slightly different. Frankly I'm so relieved to have that darned thing only 1/4" high that I don't really care why it mattered just that it did. I hope this solves the problem for others too!


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

b0w_bender said:


> OK I switched the bottom limb to the top just in case there was a discrepancy in the limbs.
> - apparently there wasn't any limb discrepancies since nothing in the arrow tuning changed it was exactly the same.
> 
> I then noticed that the cable guard was at the minimum clearance it looked like the vanes were missing it by about 1/8" and there were no wear marks on the cables but I figured i would bump it out just a bit to ensure there would be no future clearance issues. Well I tried to nudge it out just an 1/8" but it jumped out 3/8" so I said the heck with it that will ensure there is no contact. I tighten it down that way.
> ...


Duly noted!

But if I do get a ShadowCat, it will be with the new cable guard/string stopper, so I'll have to look at things very carefully to get them right :thumb:


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## vkrules (Aug 31, 2009)

Thats strange,tried my guard in or out no change in nock height . Only change is with the guard in, cable hits the post. Pierre Martin has stopped selling the shadowcat with the new guard STS TRG and have gone back to the earlier system .May still be a few in the stores though. If your draw is longer than 29 inch I think you will have the post problem.29 inch and over go with the nitro 2 cam. Don have you tried moving your guard yet?


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeah, I have moved it closer to the string and further away, all it did was eat up my feathers. It's funny though. With one brand of shaft I get a tear low and another brand I get a tear high. Just for the heck of it I gave my cables 1 full twist to shorten them up and it did drop my knock down a hair. I am going to try another turn later in the week to see what I can get it to. I just hope I can get it to shoot good enough for Sunday, I have a big 3-D shoot..
I will keep ya'll posted.
Don.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Of course moving the cable guard out (in my case) would have had the same affect as shortening the cables. Hmmm, perhaps its the cam rotation that is critical?


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

vkrules said:


> Thats strange,tried my guard in or out no change in nock height . Only change is with the guard in, cable hits the post. Pierre Martin has stopped selling the shadowcat with the new guard STS TRG and have gone back to the earlier system .May still be a few in the stores though. If your draw is longer than 29 inch I think you will have the post problem.29 inch and over go with the nitro 2 cam. Don have you tried moving your guard yet?


They are back to the old STS? Ok. And yes, my draw length is more around 31 inches, so Nitro 2 it would be...


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Anyone know if the CAT2 cams would work on a Cougar 3 with Elite limbs and if so what do you think it would shoot like?
Don.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

When Ryan the dude at Martin found out I had put them on a Rytera Triad he told me that the cat 2 cams are designed specifically for parellel limb bows. I shrugged and with a smile said they seem to work OK on the Triad.

Having said that I'm not sure the limb slots on the Elite limbs would be long enough with their more vertical orientation.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Ok thanks, Pat.
I tryed takeing 2 turns out of my bottom linb and it seems to of dropped my knocking point down. Still getting a real bad low tear with one brand of shafts and it's driving me crazy.
Don.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Is there a nock collar on the brand that isn't flying correctly? if there is try taking that off and see what happens.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

No knock collar on the arrows. I did some cam tuneing from this thread--- http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=626601--- and it brought my knocking point down and all my arrows are flying good now. I can tell it brought my speed up also, just need to reshoot it through a chronograph. 
I would recomend this cam adjustments from the thread I mentioned, at least play around with them, it's cool.
Don.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

How would adjustments be made with the new Nitro Cam 2.0? I can see similarities, but then it would still require guess work.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

I asked the same question about the CAT Hybrex 1.5 cams. I was told it works on all the CAT cams.
Just follow along with the timing setup, the rotation of each cam and the measurment from the string and the post the cable hooks to.
Give it a try. On my bow it worked, I am going to tweek it around some more just for the heck of it.
Don.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

zestycj7 said:


> I asked the same question about the CAT Hybrex 1.5 cams. I was told it works on all the CAT cams.
> Just follow along with the timing setup, the rotation of each cam and the measurment from the string and the post the cable hooks to.
> Give it a try. On my bow it worked, I am going to tweek it around some more just for the heck of it.
> Don.


Haven't made up my mind on ordering one yet, hunting temps can be pretty cold here, and I know for a fact (spoke with Martin people) that they don't have any kind of thermal grip for the ShadowCat, so i'm still pondering. :doh:


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Pierre,
You could always use the self stick ace bandage wrap for the riser.
Have you shot a Shadowcat yet?
Don.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

zestycj7 said:


> Pierre,
> You could always use the self stick ace bandage wrap for the riser.
> Have you shot a Shadowcat yet?
> Don.


I haven't, closest dealer is 12-hour drive away. I've been thinking about the Sims wrap too for that matter.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Here's a pic that was posted in October on Martin's site, the 2011 STS is still on, but the website has been updated to show the 2010 guard and STS.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

interesting!


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

Wonder why they chose to go back to the old model of guard/string stopper?


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

When I was shooting Vegas, I talked to the rep in the Martin booth, he said that they weren't going to use the new setup on the Shaowcat because they didn't need it? What ever that ment I don't know?
Don.


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## Pierre Couture (Oct 28, 2004)

zestycj7 said:


> When I was shooting Vegas, I talked to the rep in the Martin booth, he said that they weren't going to use the new setup on the Shaowcat because they didn't need it? What ever that ment I don't know?
> Don.


I wonder how intrusive the new setup would be for a finger shooter, barely a couple of inches above nocking point?


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Anyone tryed converting your Shadowcat over to the NOS X with B cams?
I have an extra set and am going to give it a shot one one of my Cats. Only thing is I don't know how to figure out what the string and cable lengths would be.
How would I go about with this?
Thanks for any input.
Don.


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Hay Don.

There is a long thread on the Martin Technical forum covering this exact subject.

Neil


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

NeilM said:


> Hay Don.
> 
> There is a long thread on the Martin Technical forum covering this exact subject.
> 
> Neil


 Neil,
I have seen and read the post you speak of. I was just trying to see if there were or are others that have done this convertion, to get more info.
I "WILL" be doing this cam swap on one of my Cats, When I start I will do up a thread about it.
Don.


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## jnordwell (Nov 12, 2011)

wow alot of good info on the shadowcat.. I just picked one up for a song.. traded in my other bow and got a 2010 hold over for 300 bucks... I plan on using a release. I have a 30 in draw and just like a longer a to a bow. my old bow was 33 in s to s and it shot well just not what I like. my bow before that one was a bowtech pro 40 dually. so any tuning tips for arelease shooter on the cat 2 cams and the shadowcat??


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## star (Jul 30, 2002)

I start off with tiller even ,if the arrow is hitting right ..I back off the bottom limb 1/8 of a turn seems to work ..even 1/4" if arrow is under spined .my 2 $$


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK Sorry to dredge this ancient thread back up but I've been doing some bare shaft testing and I'm finding the arrows I was trying to shoot out of the bow were way to stiff. I dropped to a 400 spine and went from 100 grain tips to 125 grain tips and I'll be darned, in order to get the bare shafts to fly correctly I had to drop the nock way down. I'm now about 1/8" above square. I also found that I get much more consistent arrow flight with the heavier points. I'm planing on doing some paper testing tomorrow but I am optimistic since the broad head test I did had both field points and broadheads flying in the same group.

I'm now relatively convinced that point weight and arrow spine play a critical role in this high nock problem.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Pat,
Thanks for the heads up.
I have gone to a 400 with a heaver tip too.
They do seem to fly better, still playing though.
Don.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Ya this whole chasing speed and flatter trajectory comes at a price of more erratic arrow flight with poorer accuracy. I think I'm better off practicing my yardage estimations and shooting the heavier setup.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

For me, I have found that anytime I have a bare shaft that will not allow for a normal nock set height, it usually ends up being a bad spine match. I fought through this with a Cyborg recently. Like Don, I could get good flight out of the set up but it makes me crazy knowing something is not right, and the bare shaft not obeying the rules.  I eventually discovered I was significantly underspined. I could get a "decent" bare shaft at about 18 steps. When I finally took the time to get it perfect, the shaft came down to a nock set at 3/16 and a bare shaft that flies great at 25 yds.

Along the search for how to solve that issue, Rhys suggested I try advancing the lower cam. He says he does this on all his fingers set ups. He explained to me that the draw on the fingers release slows the lower cam, so it needs to be advanced some to catch up, and get the best nock travel. It sure sounds logical.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

mitchell said:


> Like Don, I could get good flight out of the set up but it makes me crazy knowing something is not right, and the bare shaft not obeying the rules.


Exactly!


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK more on this. Since I have 3 shadowcats I'm always doing some fiddling with this. Here is some other things I've noticed help with arrow flight.
- heavier arrows
- correct spine this is critical
- heavier points

I thought those were enough but this year when trying to tune my broadheads I discovered that after I paper tuned the bow I had a perfect bullet hole but the nock was about 3/8" high. I was OK with that until I tried to shoot broadheads out of it. My broadheads flew about 6 or 8 inches low and fiddling with the nock height did nothing to help. No matter what I did I couldn't get the broadheads to fly with the field points. I literally spent 20 to 30 hours trouble shooting this, very aggravating!

I remembered that I had a similar problem with a Scepter and tweaking the cable guard seemed to help. With that in the back of my mind I changed the cables out. I also noticed that the ATA was shorter than the factory specifications so I made the cables and string a bit longer. The new cables were 22 strands and I replaced them with 26 strand BCY trophy cables. More durability, smoother performance, and yes less speed. I also bumped the cable guard out just a bit and walla, the nock point needed to be dropped 1/4" and the field points and broadheads flew exactly the same. Bare shafts also hit in the same group even out to 40 yards. Wow what a difference. So I don't know why but having heavier cables, the correct ATA and more friction or clearance on the cable guard seems to also affect this High nock point problem. My guess is that tiller may also be a factor but I have neutral timing and tiller currently set. So now I add to the list:

- Factory specified ATA
- Heavier cables 26 strands
- More clearance on the cable guard


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