# "Tuning for Tens" or "James Park Method"



## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Once you have shot close with the stiff spring and adjusted centershot and spine/poundage. You then put in a medium spring and do walk back adjusting that spring. You may need to use a heavy spring, medium or light for this part.

Then if you have a C shot line, you adjust the spring. Once you have the C turned i to a somewhat straight line, then you can still micro tune plunger setting to move group or tighten group.

Chris


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

The Reference Guide for Recurve Archers suggests a curved line is a center shot problem. 

"The latest edition of this document may be downloaded from:
http://www.archersreference.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk"


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

interesting, i think i do the opposite. I havent tuned in a while so i am not fresh on my method.


Chris


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

I do the Jim Park method got me in the ball park in hour . But also with my skill with the recurve bow dosent say much


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## Jim18655 (Sep 17, 2011)

The question here was about two different methods to an end. Each has a different method to tune the center shot and button pressure. I've done both methods and just wondered if there's a consensus as to which works better.


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## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Interesting reads. I've never walk back tuned to look for patterns because I figured that a decent ball-park tune was good enough for my level of shooting. I'm curious - what level of shooter do y'all think an archer needs to be to really benefit from using a more involved tuning method like this?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Able to shoot a 6-8 inch group at 50 meters will suffice. About hand stretched width size.

In my opinion. Otherwise you wont get a somewhat straight line walking back. 


Chris


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## airwolfipsc (Apr 2, 2008)

Been tuning all month and this is opposite. Lol. Who wrote this?


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

iArch said:


> Interesting reads. I've never walk back tuned to look for patterns because I figured that a decent ball-park tune was good enough for my level of shooting. I'm curious - what level of shooter do y'all think an archer needs to be to really benefit from using a more involved tuning method like this?


I'd say if an archer can keep arrows inside the black ring on a 40cm target at 20 yards, why wouldn't he want to pursue a better tune? It's just a chance to gain more knowledge and shoot some more arrows under concentration. A straighter shooting bow/arrow combination is never a negative.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

airwolfipsc said:


> Been tuning all month and this is opposite. Lol. Who wrote this?


This graphic is also included and explained in Viper1's book Shooting the Stickbow.


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

i use the "chrstphr method". It's easy, quick, and works well for me.

See post #7 and #15. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2208382

Paul


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

I use Park's method, simplified a bit, plus group tuning.

With Stiff plunger/center shot method you shouldn't get ( or ) shape in walkback as a result, if you get that, something wasn't quite right. Following the method gives me pretty much perfect centreshot with perfect bareshaft grouping 99% of the time. If something else happens, usually it's either arrow too far from being able to tune, I have failed to center the plunger correctly, or there is contact somewhere. I use Pentti Vikström and Veikko Virta's method of 12x bow weight in grams for plunger, measured when piston starts moving, to begin after stiff plunger test. It gives me right results virtually every time. When everything's done, I go to longer distance and fine-tune for groups from there.

Problem with walk back test is bow lean and bow hand pressure. I don't really trust it as a test, rather use it when everything else is done, to check just for fun. I never get straight line, as my bow always cants slightly to right. If my bow is well tuned, and I'm shooting so I can trust my form, I know that if everything's tuned right, my bareshaft hitting 7.5 at 10 o'clock will get me good enough tune for most things. These days though won't bother with 70m bareshafting, as I can't get constant reading with the amount I'm shooting.


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## tkaap (Nov 30, 2009)

zal said:


> I use Pentti Vikström and Veikko Virta's method of 12x bow weight in grams for plunger, measured when piston starts moving, to begin after stiff plunger test. .


Do you have a reference for this method I can read more about? Plunger tension is mystery art for most people, so I'd imagine I'm not the only one who'd be interested in having some numerical starting point.


For that matter, does anyone have a recommended reference for James Park's Method? 

The Tuning for Ten's docs are pretty easy to find.


Thanks,
-T


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

tkaap said:


> Do you have a reference for this method I can read more about? Plunger tension is mystery art for most people, so I'd imagine I'm not the only one who'd be interested in having some numerical starting point.


Honestly, I have no idea where they got it or if they came up with it (which is likely, and knowing those two only after rigorous testing). It is detailed in their book "Jousiammunnan ABC" (in Finnish only...), and I've found it very accurate to start with. Both have definite pedigree, Pentti was 7th in 1988 olympics and Veikko is a noted bow builder and long-time coach in Finland, including national head coach i.e. for 1972 Olympics.



tkaap said:


> For that matter, does anyone have a recommended reference for James Park's Method?


Park's method is most detailed in his book "Mastering bow tuning".


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

tkaap said:


> For that matter, does anyone have a recommended reference for James Park's Method? -T


https://www.archery-forum.org/forum/technical-centre/bow-tuning/7109-tuning-a-recurve-bow 
Be sure to read James' revision in post #60. - John


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

That only works if you're a) in the right ballpark to start with, b) know how to set up a centreshot for your release, c) have an idea how bareshaft tune works, i.e. how much there will be effect if add/lessen draw weight, cut arrows, change plunger pressure and d) have an idea how much your plunger pressure can be before you run into trouble, if your arrow is simply too far to tune with weight adjustment, cutting and in last result, adding/removing weight to different parts of the arrow or string.

Systematic tuning method like Park's or Tuning for Tens gives a great pathway for beginner/intermediate archers to follow, and it will weed out any arrow/bow combinations that will simply not work. For instance, I've tuned pretty much same type of arrow in one specific spine for 10+ years, so I know how much plunger weight, arrow length, etc I need and what string I'll be using, so to get a perfect tune for me, I just tune whatever limbs I have to that tune.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

iArch said:


> Interesting reads. I've never walk back tuned to look for patterns because I figured that a decent ball-park tune was good enough for my level of shooting. I'm curious - what level of shooter do y'all think an archer needs to be to really benefit from using a more involved tuning method like this?


Better than the level you're at.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

lksseven said:


> I'd say if an archer can keep arrows inside the black ring on a 40cm target at 20 yards, why wouldn't he want to pursue a better tune? It's just a chance to gain more knowledge and shoot some more arrows under concentration. A straighter shooting bow/arrow combination is never a negative.


The longer I shoot, the less I worry about tune. I once obsessed over it (like many folks seem to do) and what that helped me understand is how little importance the "perfect tune" has when compared to a quality shot. Sure, you want a reasonable tune, but there is a point where most folks begin chasing their tail because they can't see the arrow flight well enough to know what the arrow is doing between their bow and the target. Only looking at where the arrow lands and not how it gets there is a great way to end up with a false positive. I can make a stiff arrow show weak or a weak arrow show stiff depending on how I set up a bow. 

People also don't consider often enough the fact that weak arrows will show nock low and stiff arrows nock high - just like compounds. 

Best for most folks to just "get it close" and then go shoot. Worry more about your stamina and mental game (closely linked btw) than your tune and you will score better at the end of the day.


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> The longer I shoot, the less I worry about tune. I once obsessed over it (like many folks seem to do) and what that helped me understand is how little importance the "perfect tune" has when compared to a quality shot. Sure, you want a reasonable tune, but there is a point where most folks begin chasing their tail because they can't see the arrow flight well enough to know what the arrow is doing between their bow and the target. Only looking at where the arrow lands and not how it gets there is a great way to end up with a false positive. I can make a stiff arrow show weak or a weak arrow show stiff depending on how I set up a bow.
> 
> People also don't consider often enough the fact that weak arrows will show nock low and stiff arrows nock high - just like compounds.
> 
> Best for most folks to just "get it close" and then go shoot. Worry more about your stamina and mental game (closely linked btw) than your tune and you will score better at the end of the day.



This times 10000!!!!

Granted its fun to be able to toss bare shafts in the 10 ring from 70m at will. That said I've shot my best when my bareshafts were scattered around the outside of the 9-ring so go figure. Get it to group and go shoot.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> The longer I shoot, the less I worry about tune. I once obsessed over it (like many folks seem to do) and what that helped me understand is how little importance the "perfect tune" has when compared to a quality shot. Sure, you want a reasonable tune, but there is a point where most folks begin chasing their tail because they can't see the arrow flight well enough to know what the arrow is doing between their bow and the target. Only looking at where the arrow lands and not how it gets there is a great way to end up with a false positive. I can make a stiff arrow show weak or a weak arrow show stiff depending on how I set up a bow.
> 
> People also don't consider often enough the fact that weak arrows will show nock low and stiff arrows nock high - just like compounds.
> 
> Best for most folks to just "get it close" and then go shoot. Worry more about your stamina and mental game (closely linked btw) than your tune and you will score better at the end of the day.


Agree that 'making good quality consistent shots' is King, and a 'great matching tune to the archer' is Queen. 

Once I get my tune close, I like to start shooting 3 or 4 arrow groups from 7 or 8 feet in front of the target and then work my way back to 15 yards or so in 10 feet increments - wanting to get bares and vanes tracking each other immediately out of the bow and onward. 

What I like about the tuning pursuit is it breaks up the training volume monotony a bit, and it helps me in training to 'focus on making good quality shots', not just 'hit the bullseye' (because I want to make a good quality shot so I can get an accurate picture of how the arrow and bow are dancing). Plus, some of the observations I make/things I learn while fine tuning is earned knowledge that can be then communicated to students who are climbing their skill acquisition curve :thumbs_up

PS - I don't quite get the phrase "get it close and then just 'go shoot' " ... every change I make to my setup then involves 'shooting' to test it. Adding 4 twists to the string, or a half revolution to centershot, or a 1/16" or 1/8" to the clicker takes about 12 seconds. It's not a big time drain.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

Black46 said:


> i use the "chrstphr method". It's easy, quick, and works well for me.
> 
> See post #7 and #15. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2208382
> 
> Paul


Thats sameas the Jim Park


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

tkaap said:


> Do you have a reference for this method I can read more about? Plunger tension is mystery art for most people, so I'd imagine I'm not the only one who'd be interested in having some numerical starting point.
> 
> 
> For that matter, does anyone have a recommended reference for James Park's Method?
> ...


I got told once & is what I set my button to is 1/8" movment @1lb of weight


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> The longer I shoot, the less I worry about tune. I once obsessed over it (like many folks seem to do) and what that helped me understand is how little importance the "perfect tune" has when compared to a quality shot. Sure, you want a reasonable tune, but there is a point where most folks begin chasing their tail because they can't see the arrow flight well enough to know what the arrow is doing between their bow and the target. Only looking at where the arrow lands and not how it gets there is a great way to end up with a false positive. I can make a stiff arrow show weak or a weak arrow show stiff depending on how I set up a bow.
> 
> People also don't consider often enough the fact that weak arrows will show nock low and stiff arrows nock high - just like compounds.
> 
> Best for most folks to just "get it close" and then go shoot. Worry more about your stamina and mental game (closely linked btw) than your tune and you will score better at the end of the day.


This is the best piece of advice I seen in this thread


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Just as an observation, Erika Jones (yes, that one) shoots out of my range during indoor season, and she'll spend a great deal of time in the Fall with her setup, tweaking her setup and testing her tune. Once she feels like she's all dialed in, then she's mostly just shooting. But as the season unfolds, if she starts to feel less than 100% dialed in, she'll again go through a pretty focused tuning analysis/testing/tweaking/testing/analysis to retake that hallowed ground of 100% confidence.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> every change I make to my setup then involves 'shooting' to test it. Adding 4 twists to the string, or a half revolution to centershot, or a 1/16" or 1/8" to the clicker takes about 12 seconds. It's not a big time drain.


It's not about time. It's about where your focus is.

You can be an athlete, or a technician. I don't know many folks who can be both at the same time.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Having said all that, this is how my arrow currently tunes (at 20m!). There simply isn't weak enough arrow for the length I need, and the poundage I have to shoot, as I currently train once every two months if I remember. Still can shoot 300+ at 70m (with sight ring right on top of the stab at full draw) even with this tune, if I get good vibes on the technique that particular day.

I rather take arrow that won't tune and poundage I can comfortably shoot, rather than other way round. Bad shots kill the score much quicker than bad tune.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Nope, last steps are opposite.

Chris


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## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

I'm in the process of tuning my recurve bow, so I went back and thought about the idea of using a stiff plunger to set my bow weight, and that made sense, so I tried it. From what I had done before to this one, I ended up tightening my limb bolts about 1 3/4 turns to get the arrows shooting slightly stiff. Put my regular plunger back in and set it to a medium setting. Came back and adjusted my centershot until my arrows were hitting center with my sight ring being aligned to the left side of my string (right hand shooter). Bareshafted again, and my arrows were shooting stiff again by about 4-6 inches at 30m. Weakened my plunger about a 1/2 turn, and bareshafts shot slightly stiff. Went back to 70m, and I would say I noticed the difference very quickly. Before I would get a few errant shots that didn't make sense to me, and starting with the stiff plunger to set draw weight, really made a difference. I still shoot an occasional blue, but now it is easier for me to understand why it went blue. I really have the feeling now that the arrow is going were it suppose to go, depending upon how good of a shot I make.


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