# Two JOAD Mail-In Tournaments Invitation



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Two back to back, JOAD Mail-In Tournaments Invitation
http://usarchery.org/news/article/28310
Take note of the two events, one in late 2009 and another in early 2010. If the turnout is positive, perhaps more events can be offered thru out the year.
Take note of the different age limits for Juniors and Cadets in late 2009 event vs the early 2010 event. Some that are not eligible for the 2009 event become eligible in 2010. If you were born in 1990, you can compete as a Junior in 2010.
Have fun as an individual archer and even more fun by finding team members to compete with.
Those that are “beyond” JOAD age can take part also.

In the past the event raised funds for unfunded youth team members. Now that more youth team member are otherwise funded. Funds are being raised for the Ann Hoyt Legacy Fund which helps the JOAD program grow as a whole!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Historic Results, Early 2009 JOAD Mail in.*
http://www.azjoad.com/2009/2009_JOAD_Mail-In_Results.pdf
The information and results pages help to give a feel for the event.

Note that USAA JOAD program information is now available on *www.usarchery.org* then clik on “Programs” http://www.usarchery.org/pages/5062 and then “JOAD (Youth Archery)” http://www.usarchery.org/pages/5076 

Note also that the tournament coordinator is now the USAA National JOAD Coordinator, *Diane Watson [email protected]*


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

This link has the entry and scoring form link on the right hand side
http://usarchery.org/event/event/2453


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Ann Hoyt Legacy Fund*

Who Was Ann Hoyt?
http://www.usarchery.org/pages/7586
The late 2009 and early 2010 JOAD Mail in supports the Ann Hoyt Legacy Fund.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*USAA Membership?*

"...*Participants DO NOT need to be USA Archery members*, however, membership is strongly encouraged..."


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

Alright, Bob, I think I will be participating! The last one was fun. I am looking forward to this one as well.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

we announced both tournaments at our last two joad sessions (T and TH) and we will add a third session (saturdays at my range) starting Mid November so our archers can shoot these events. We are trying to get some of our recurvers to also shoot compound so we can get more entries. It looks like we will be able to fill most teams as well.


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## Shinigami3 (Oct 7, 2009)

I think I read that three times and I'm STILL confused over all the age stuff.

Someone needs to make up a little birthdate chart to explain eligibility. I might give it a shot.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Shinigami3 said:


> I think I read that three times and I'm STILL confused over all the age stuff.
> 
> Someone needs to make up a little birthdate chart to explain eligibility. I might give it a shot.


If you are confused odds are others are too.
There are two concepts:

*#1 The age or eligibility is based on your age at the end of the year.*
So in 2009 those that are no older than 18 at the end of 2009 can compete as a Junior.
And in 2009 those that are no older than 16 at the end of 2009 can compete as a Cadet.

*#2 The age limit raises in 2010.*
So in 2010 those that are no older than 20 at the end of 2010 can compete as a Junior.
And in 2010 those that are no older than 17 at the end of 2010 can compete as a Cadet.

There are two JOAD Mail in for the Winter 2009/2010 season. 
The late 2009 Mail in follows the age 16 Cadet and age 18 Junior age limit
The early 2010 Mail in follows the age 17 Cadet and age 20 Junior age limit

In all cases the funds collected support the Ann Hoyt Legacy Fund!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

The late 2009 JOAD Mail in begins on November 15, 2009


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Everyone have their fat arrows ready?


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Let the games begin...the last group of 16 year old Cadets and 18 year old Juniors...


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Had our first shoot at our indoor range (MY personal one vs the NG armory we use for JOAD) yesterday to get things started-I believe we had 11 shoot. Several of our archers plan on shooting at least two disciplines as well in the next 6 weeks


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## Diane Watson (Oct 12, 2002)

Awesome Jim! 

Thanks for all that you are doing to support JOAD.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

The "First" of two JOAD Mail Ins comes to an end on January 31, 2009. 

The "Second" including new the new higher Junior and Cadet ages takes place January 1 – 31, 2010.

"...There are TWO JOAD Mail-In tournaments being offered this season.
 The first 2009/2010 JOAD Mail-in tournament (“First”) being held November 15 thru December 31, 2009 event follows the FITA classifications for competition up to and including the 18th year for Junior and 16th year for Cadets.
 The second 2009/2010 JOAD Mail-in tournament (“Second”) January 1 – 31, 2010 follows the FITA classifications for competition up to and including the 20th year for Junior and 17th year for Cadets. The 2010 age categories gives all archers that will be moving up a chance to compete in their new age category and give those archers that have or were moving out of JOAD the opportunity to continue on with JOAD..."


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Results for the late 2009 mail in become due.*

Please submitt information, results and payment as accurately and quickly as you can. The better the accuracy and the faster the submittals are received, the faster they can be compliled and results published! The goal is to have the results published while the event is still fresh in everyones mind.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

We sent our results in TODAY along with a check for 445 dollars. We had 34 individual entries including several of us who shot two divisions including Tyler Hoge, who shot a strong recurve score LEFTHAND and borrowed one of my RH compounds and shot a decent score with it. We had SEVEN teams including two JOAD Boys recurve, TWO senior Recurve, A boys and men's compound and a Ladies Recurve. Our best score was an awesome 297 Posted by National Target Champion Sean Curtin (who won the January 09 Mail in with a 285).


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> We sent our results in TODAY along with a check for 445 dollars...


ALL REGISTRATION FEES RECEIVED FROM THIS MAIL-IN TOURNAMENT WILL BE DONATED TO THE ANN HOYT LEGACY FUND WHICH SUPPORTS JOAD. 

As a representative of a significant contributor, where would the club like to see the funds allocated by the Ann Hoyt Legacy Fund?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> ALL REGISTRATION FEES RECEIVED FROM THIS MAIL-IN TOURNAMENT WILL BE DONATED TO THE ANN HOYT LEGACY FUND WHICH SUPPORTS JOAD.
> 
> As a representative of a significant contributor, where would the club like to see the funds allocated by the Ann Hoyt Legacy Fund?


To the Jim C retirement fund of course

Don't know, I will discuss that with Darrell, Steve and Liz


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> To the Jim C retirement fund of course
> 
> Don't know, I will discuss that with Darrell, Steve and Liz


Ideally every JOAD club and supporter would contact their regional JOAD coordinator would do the same and offer comments and voluteer to help. The more involvement the better!


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> Ideally every JOAD club and supporter would contact their regional JOAD coordinator would do the same and offer comments and voluteer to help. The more involvement the better!


Since I started running (along with those I mentioned above) CJO I have made the mail in a priority. We pay half the entry fee for each archer, and I open our private range up to several scoring sessions during the mail in period so our kids have more chances to shoot. We, along with Hall's Arrows, have probably had the most participation over the last decade along with a fair amount of success. 

With Diane Running things, hopefully results will be out quickly. I don't believe we ever got the certificates from last year even though we had multiple "medalists"


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

*Where did the funds go previously?*

Our club entered last year for the first time and intends to enter both this year as well. Perhaps those who know can contribute to the discussion about who benefits from the efforts of CJO, Hall's, DATUS and other smaller groups. I expect each group could use the money "in-house" for their needs rather than sending the money off "somewhere for something." It is a great tournament and our shooters did well last year and hopefully will improve their standings this year.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

tjk009 said:


> Our club entered last year for the first time and intends to enter both this year as well. Perhaps those who know can contribute to the discussion about who benefits from the efforts of CJO, Hall's, DATUS and other smaller groups. I expect each group could use the money "in-house" for their needs rather than sending the money off "somewhere for something." It is a great tournament and our shooters did well last year and hopefully will improve their standings this year.


Ann Hoyt was a good friend to CJO in general and to Jim, Liz and Darrell in particular. She and Ann Clark visited our club several times after she moved to Cincinnati. We believe in supporting her legacy


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

tjk009 said:


> Our club entered last year for the first time and intends to enter both this year as well. Perhaps those who know can contribute to the discussion about who benefits from the efforts of CJO, Hall's, DATUS and other smaller groups. I expect each group could use the money "in-house" for their needs rather than sending the money off "somewhere for something." It is a great tournament and our shooters did well last year and hopefully will improve their standings this year.


Ann Hoyt Legacy Fund information http://usarchery.org/pages/7586

Information about the PAST FORMER, Year ago, 2009 JOAD Mail-In Tournament http://usarchery.org/events/1451 
More USAA Youth World Team and International team members were funded in 2009 than in recent previous years. The combination of both USAA sponsor support and the Spring 09 Mail was a great help to many family budgets and ultimately will help to develop youth archers to achieve at the elite level.

With continued support of USAA Youth World Team and International team members funding, what are other JOAD efforts deserving of financial support.
JOAD Handbook update?
JOAD Curriculum?
Potential JOAD, parent, coach/Instructor, club leaders information?
How to start a 501 c3 JOAD club guide?
Full time National JOAD Coordinator?

The Instructor and Coach certification effort is key to providing quality support for new clubs so that new archers coming from NASP, Scouts, camps and ASAP have a place to go. What else should be done to encourage the establishment of quality JOAD clubs to provide programs for the thousands of youth that seek the target archery experience?


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> ...I don't believe we ever got the certificates from last year even though we had multiple "medalists"


Have you contacted USAA staff? Proactive communication is a good thing.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> Since I started running (along with those I mentioned above) CJO I have made the mail in a priority. We pay half the entry fee for each archer, and I open our private range up to several scoring sessions during the mail in period so our kids have more chances to shoot...


The paying 1/2 is a great idea. Thanks for sharing the concept. Its these types of ideas that are needed at the Local, State, Regional and National level for sharing with new and existing club leaders so that each can build off of each other successes and lessons. The key to such a coordinated effort is to communicate in a variety of ways, at all levels and between all levels.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> Have you contacted USAA staff? Proactive communication is a good thing.


I may have been in error on this


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## Diane Watson (Oct 12, 2002)

Thank you Jim. I will let you know when I receive your mail in information. I've tried to send an email out when I received the entries.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Diane Watson said:


> Thank you Jim. I will let you know when I receive your mail in information. I've tried to send an email out when I received the entries.


I sent an email to the email address about a mistake I made

I had the wrong person on one of our teams-I put our 4,5,7 senior men on our second team rather than 4, 5, 6 and I sent you are correction. I figure since its before the deadline it should be ok


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## Diane Watson (Oct 12, 2002)

Jim, 

That email address comes to me and I have received your corrections. I will make note of it. 

Thanks again for all of your support!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> ...With Diane Running things, hopefully results will be out quickly..."


 I think one of the reasons results took so long in the past was verifying membership. In a typical in person tourney, the membership is verified prior or during competition. In past mail ins, time was taken to verify membership just as the results were being complied which caused delay. 

The biggest delay was getting calls from folks that said that they just mailed their results and to please be sure to record them and then the entry would not arrive in a reasonable amount of time. 

Also there were entrants that would call and report errors that required additional time to sort out. One of the ways Diane can get things done quickly is to follow the cut of date and use what was submitted at deadline and not allow revised submittals. I think it is harsh to do so especially when the mistakes are not by the archer but by the submitter.

Club leaders, please check and double check with the same care as you would like the tournament to take. Avoid the possiblity of a painful consiquence.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Good point-our last shooting session was December 29th so we had the results compiled December 30 and they were posted the next day rather than wait for a few more days. we also entered extra teams just to offer more support to the tournament. As I noted we tried to get every member to shoot at least one event, some shot two.

IT will be interesting to see the turnout for the one completed and the one we just had our first session for yesterday with all the promotion. Back when I first started running CJO, the NAA ran it and medals were awarded and I recall 500+ entries-Hall Arrows had dozens of kids including that awesome team of Karen, Amy And Roxanne who averaged 290+ to win the girls team even. Then things sort of faded when it was farmed out and no medals. Most of my top kids-the ones who generally place in the top of these things have plenty of medals but talking to other clubs around the state, it was the change to paper that lost some participation.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Anyone have some "unofficial" results to post? I've heard rumors of some really high scores among cadet recurve boys...


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

archerymom2 said:


> Anyone have some "unofficial" results to post? I've heard rumors of some really high scores among cadet recurve boys...


Sean Curtin of my club shot a 297, and Daniel McLaughlin shot a 292. No rumor. I should note that a couple days later (we have two places we shoot, my range and a NG armory-my range Sat and Sundays, NG T and Th) Sean banged out another gold olympian score and Daniel shot something in the 289 range IIRC.


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

Jim C said:


> Sean Curtin of my club shot a 297, and Daniel McLaughlin shot a 292. No rumor. I should note that a couple days later (we have two places we shoot, my range and a NG armory-my range Sat and Sundays, NG T and Th) Sean banged out another gold olympian score and Daniel shot something in the 289 range IIRC.


well sounds like the cadet scores for this year are going to be high and very close. so far ive heard curtins 97 and daniels 92, i sent in a 94 ive also heard a 92 and a 91 from acouple other people.we may have quite a few shooters above 290, but thats one impressive score sean shot, tell him i said good job

Chris


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> Good point-our last shooting session was December 29th so we had the results compiled December 30 and they were posted the next day rather than wait for a few more days. we also entered extra teams just to offer more support to the tournament. As I noted we tried to get every member to shoot at least one event, some shot two.
> 
> IT will be interesting to see the turnout for the one completed and the one we just had our first session for yesterday with all the promotion. Back when I first started running CJO, the NAA ran it and medals were awarded and I recall 500+ entries-Hall Arrows had dozens of kids including that awesome team of Karen, Amy And Roxanne who averaged 290+ to win the girls team even. Then things sort of faded when it was farmed out and no medals. Most of my top kids-the ones who generally place in the top of these things have plenty of medals but talking to other clubs around the state, it was the change to paper that lost some participation.


I bet the USAA could issue medals if someone designed and priced out an inexpensive medal for consideration. 

As for the big participation in the past, what was different besides medals. I am not talking about competition from text messaging, facebook, computer games and the internet, but about additional benefits like JOAD camps, reduced entry fees at national events, or my favorite, a free Judges registratation for a parent (in my dreams). Were there simply more clubs and more JOADs? And were there both compound and recurve archers? Was Barebow or compound barebow offered? Finally what year are we talking about? Early or mid or late 80s...Early, mid or late 90s? The 70s?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> I bet the USAA could issue medals if someone designed and priced out an inexpensive medal for consideration.
> 
> As for the big participation in the past, what was different besides medals. I am not talking about competition from text messaging, facebook, computer games and the internet, but about additional benefits like JOAD camps, reduced entry fees at national events, or my favorite, a free Judges registratation for a parent (in my dreams). Were there simply more clubs and more JOADs? And were there both compound and recurve archers? Was Barebow or compound barebow offered? Finally what year are we talking about? Early or mid or late 80s...Early, mid or late 90s? The 70s?


about ten years ago the NAA ran the mail in. The numbers were high. Then it was outsourced for a few years and the numbers were low. There was no real advertising of it by the NAA and it was not promoted. I AM IN NO WAY criticizing those who STEPPED UP AND AGREED TO RUN IT. They did a good job given their resources. When the NAA ran it they would send out forms to all the JOAD clubs.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Xcreekarchery1 said:


> well sounds like the cadet scores for this year are going to be high and very close. so far ive heard curtins 97 and daniels 92, i sent in a 94 ive also heard a 92 and a 91 from acouple other people.we may have quite a few shooters above 290, but thats one impressive score sean shot, tell him i said good job
> 
> Chris


great shooting Chris

OUr three gold olympians (Curtin DM and Chelsea Obrebski) all shot gold level scores and SIlver Olympian Brent Hankins got his gold in Junior Compound with a 290 right before Christmas. Sean M was the only Olympian in our club who didn't have an Olympian level score but he just got to our range with some other kids and will try to for this current mail in

I note Curtin won last year with 285 and Dan M and Sean M went 2-3 

so the scores are up


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Take part in the 2010 Spring Mail in with the new age limits for Cadet and Junior
JOAD indoor age Rules Reminder for the “Second” of the 2009/2010 JOAD Mail-In tournament series:

Junior (J)	Through the year of the 20th birthday (born in or after 1990)
Cadet (C)	Through the year of the 17th birthday (born in or after 1993)
Cub (Cub)	Through the year of the 14th birthday (born in or after 1996)
Bowman (B)	Through the year of the 12th birthday (born in or after 1998)
Seniors (S)	Over 20 years - no Master's Dvisions (born in or before 1989)
http://usarchery.org/news/article/28310

For those that didn’t take part in the late 2009 mail in, you have a second chance to compete in the early 2010 mail in event.
For those that didn’t do as well as they would have liked in late 2009, you have a second chance to compete in the early 2010 mail in event.
For those that dominated in late 2009, defend your achievement and do it again, or even better, in the early 2010 mail in event.
For those that take part to support the Ann Hoyt Legacy fund and the JOAD program, thank you and please participate agian.

A special thanks to the club leaders that hosted the opprotunity for the archer to take part. The CJO JOAD club offers a wonderful example of JOAD and archer support by paying for 1/2 of the mail in entry fee of each of their club archers that takes part in the JOAD Mail in.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Entries for the First JOAD Mail-In Tournament must be received no later than January 10, 2010. Today! So the results can now be compiled.


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## Saint555 (Dec 5, 2008)

*The first part mail in tournament result*

When and where will the first part mail in result available? It has been 10 days since the dead line.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Saint555 said:


> When and where will the first part mail in result available? It has been 10 days since the dead line.


Diane Watson had a busy last week including staffing the NAA booth (with AT's Steve Cornell) at the ATA show and then a JOAD Meeting in Florida I believe. She said she hoped to have results up by the end of this week and certificates out a week later


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## thomahawk (Apr 12, 2007)

*mail in ??? did the shooter win or his pencil?alot different face to face,*

:secret:


Serious Fun said:


> Two back to back, JOAD Mail-In Tournaments Invitation
> http://usarchery.org/news/article/28310
> Take note of the two events, one in late 2009 and another in early 2010. If the turnout is positive, perhaps more events can be offered thru out the year.
> Take note of the different age limits for Juniors and Cadets in late 2009 event vs the early 2010 event. Some that are not eligible for the 2009 event become eligible in 2010. If you were born in 1990, you can compete as a Junior in 2010.
> ...


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## thomahawk (Apr 12, 2007)

*shooting with your pencil*

:secret::secret::secret::secret::secret::secret:


thomahawk said:


> :secret:


should not be mail in ,face to face turnaments.or your score will be like tigers
{cheetah woods} most people in mail in.:darkbeer: shoot with there pencils


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

thomahawk said:


> :secret::secret::secret::secret::secret::secret:
> 
> should not be mail in ,face to face turnaments.or your score will be like tigers
> {cheetah woods} most people in mail in.:darkbeer: shoot with there pencils


what are you complaining about? Manning's kids did ok last year. The ones of mine who won were rather successful on the national circuit-the kid who won the cadet mail in won the nationals and was runner up in the JOAD. 

This is not a USAT ranking shoot. You sound rather bitter


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I guess the dull hatchet ran back to the shed. However, I hope Diane gets stuff posted soon. The longer it takes, the more entries will probably be lost for the next event. Slow result posting was a major complaint a few years ago--mainly caused by the membership checking (which no longer exists). I knew several clubs that stopped pushing the mail in because of the delays and we are hitting 2 weeks tomorrow since the entries were due to DW


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Only a few more days left to take part in the early 2010 JOAD Mail in http://usarchery.org/events/2453 with the new Cadet (17) and Junior (20) age classifications.*

I think that eventually, it would be worthwhile for the JOAD Mail In to be fully automated online in a user friendly format. I am sure that as humans there will still be entry mistakes but at least hand written legibility issues will be thing of the past and perhaps a user friendly online system with step by step instructions could have a feature where each club administrator can correct data entry errors on a clubs behalf. An online system could have instant result complied the second the deadline is reached and results straggle in with the note that says “here is my money and my results, please let don’t punish the kids just because I was late submitting” would less likely. 

I know legibility and data entry “Opps can you fix my mistake” issues came up in the 2009 JOAD Mail in and caused unnecessary delay. I think some of them came up after publication. Experience tell me that it is difficult to balance timeliness vs accuracy in a practical way. The universal advice for all is take care to fill out the form legibly, accurately and submitted on time.

“But Bob, the mail in is for beginners to target archery competition and the newbie’s are both the archers and club administrators that submit the results. Can you really expect legibility (there is a reason for Scantron), accuracy when some do not fully understand what they are submitting and on time submittals when people are so busy?”

I am hopeful that every arrow is a ten…Positive mental attitude, we try.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Results are posted!*

Results from the first mail-in are now posted at USA Archery...

http://assets.usoc.org/assets/documents/attached_file/filename/21006/The_Results_Are_In.pdf

Congratulations to all who participated!! Especially those who shot a personal best -- regardless of your final placement!


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

It is amazing how low the turnout was despite all of Bob's promotion and the fact its been up on the NAA website for months. One Mistake-Gold Olympian Chelsea Obrebski of our club easily won the ladies with a 290-her correct score is in the team event. I was told seniors would have separate teams but it doesn't matter.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Congratulations to the archers that took part in the first of two USAA JOAD mail ins of the late 2009, Early 2010 season. Those that took part in the late 2009 Mail in are ahead of the pack by training and already competing! 

Late 2009 Mail In, Check me on this, I count 203
http://assets.usoc.org/assets/documents/attached_file/filename/21007/The_Results_Are_In.pdf

For comparison, Early 2009 Mail in, over 460 youth and senior archers.
http://www.azjoad.com/2009/2009_JOAD_Mail-In_Results.pdf

Perhaps the December event was to early with busy families during the holiday season. I am hopeful that the removal of the membership requirement will result in more participation. I look forward to the January 2010 Mail In results. 
Be sure to email USAA National JOAD Coordinator, Diane Watson with any issues, question and comments.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Thank you USAA for the very nice article!
http://usarchery.org/news/2010/01/2...99-at-joad-mail-in-tournament/31182?ngb_id=21
It is great to see so many JOADs from across the country recognized.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> Thank you USAA for the very nice article!
> http://usarchery.org/news/2010/01/2...99-at-joad-mail-in-tournament/31182?ngb_id=21
> It is great to see so many JOADs from across the country recognized.


an interesting article

a 299 on the big target is not a gold olympian while a 290 on the 40 CM is and it took a gold olympian score to even place in the boy's cadet division. We have found that it is easier to shoot the gold olympian on the smaller target. Melissa's 299 is the highest cub score I have seen as is Sean Curtin's 297 on the adult target. I don't think that has ever happened before but I do note that in 2000 all three junior ("Fita Competitive") girls' medalists shot over 290 (Karen Scavotto, Roxanne Reiman and Amy Greene of Hall's Arrows)


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

*age information would be nice.*

A point raised in another thread noted many yeoman are forced to shoot up a division with the bowman. I know of at least one male yeoman recurver and two compound yeomen, a boy and girl, who are in the top ten of the bowman division. Perhaps others are gaining success in higher divisions as well and it could be noted without much effort. Those kids might be the ones to watch.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

at our state JOAD, one of our newer members is Trey McDonald who is yet to turn eight. I explained he could shoot at 9 Meters but he would be the only entrant. He insisted in shooting in the bowman division where he finished second with a 399. I also note that in the senior recurve division we have Al Kramer competing and he was born in 1930!

CJO is by no means the largest JOAD club in the country yet I believe we had the most entrants in this last Mail in. I would hope some of the other big clubs would step up and support this very worthy cause.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

tjk009 said:


> A point raised in another thread noted many yeoman are forced to shoot up a division with the bowman. I know of at least one male yeoman recurver and two compound yeomen, a boy and girl, who are in the top ten of the bowman division. Perhaps others are gaining success in higher divisions as well and it could be noted without much effort. Those kids might be the ones to watch.


Agreed. That was me that brought up the division bumping...not that my recently turned 8 year old son minds shooting up one....

He's definitely competitive enough that he's able to hold his own at the Bowman division. 

And - I showed him the results yesterday afternoon. He's stoked.

-Steve


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

Jim C said:


> an interesting article
> 
> . Melissa's 299 is the highest cub score I have seen


Michelle?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Xcreekarchery1 said:


> Michelle?


my bad


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

http://usarchery.org/news/2010/01/2...99-at-joad-mail-in-tournament/31182?ngb_id=21 
“…The second JOAD Mail-In Tournament is currently being conducted across the country. *All results must be received by Wednesday, Feb. 10, in order to be counted*…”

Good Luck youth archers, JOADs and JOAD Club Teams. Keep shooting...and Have Fun!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

The clock is winding down on the early 2010 USAA JOAD Mail in. The early in the year is the traditional time for the mail in. How are JOADs doing. How did the clubs do in comparison to the late 2009 mail in?

The mail in is a great way to prepare for the JOAD Indoor Championship and the USAA Indoor National Championship. Some are looking forward to competing face to face in Vegas.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

Today was the last day at my club for scoring. I shot a 285 inner ten, and my buddy got a 291 inner 10, with a 300 if it was a vegas round. I think Corner will have a good showing again.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

so will CJO--we made the mistake of not combining seniors with joads as some clubs did and that kept us from winning the compound division. We have some high scores in the 280s from Gold Olympian Brent Hankins and a couple of our adult members. Our Recurve scores are slightly better than last month but we are waiting to see if Sean Curtin can crank out another 297 on the small target. Our lowest ranked dream teamer improved a fair amount over last month


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> The clock is winding down on the early 2010 USAA JOAD Mail in. The early in the year is the traditional time for the mail in. How are JOADs doing. How did the clubs do in comparison to the late 2009 mail in?
> 
> The mail in is a great way to prepare for the JOAD Indoor Championship and the USAA Indoor National Championship. Some are looking forward to competing face to face in Vegas.


most of our shooters improved. I went down a point but I have bronchitis or pneumonia now and I am wiped out so I didn't shoot this last week. One of our best improvements came from a boy who was a cub last year and shot a 280-he shot almost every day over Xmas break now that his dad modified their basement so he can shoot 18M in it and he posted an olympian 281 as a cadet on the small target.


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

Other scores out there??


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

From the results Corner Archery submitted in the last scoring run (the last 2009 results), we turned in results from 22 kids (we don't submit seniors). 

We had a bunch of kids shoot today. This will be a cool result...

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Jim C said:


> so will CJO--we made the mistake of not combining seniors with joads as some clubs did and that kept us from winning the compound division. We have some high scores in the 280s from Gold Olympian Brent Hankins and a couple of our adult members. Our Recurve scores are slightly better than last month but we are waiting to see if Sean Curtin can crank out another 297 on the small target. Our lowest ranked dream teamer improved a fair amount over last month


To break down Corner Archery's team ages...

The guys that comprised the first place Male Team Compound for our team consists of a 12 year old, a 14 year old, and an 18 year old. The team that scored 7th in the team compound consisted of two 16 year olds and a 15 year old. And the team that did 8th consists of two 14 year olds and an 8 year old.

Our Female second place compound team consists of a 12 year old, a 14 year old, and a 16 year old. 

The kids that submitted scores range from 8 years old (a male Yeoman that shoots at 20 yards and shoots up at Bowman) to a 18 year old junior. 

Anyhow - this scoring run will be cool to watch. I can't wait for the results!

-Steve


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Generally those shooting compounds on the outer ten or the 60CM target submit the top scores--or at least that has been the trend over the last few years. I liked last year's system where senior teams were seperate


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> Generally those shooting compounds on the outer ten or the 60CM target submit the top scores--or at least that has been the trend over the last few years. I liked last year's system where senior teams were seperate


Jim, if I understand what you are saying, you wish there was a JOAD team and a separate Adult team. Have a look a the text below form the USAA website: http://www.usarchery.org/events/2453
“…Team Round: There will be a team round for an All Girls/All Ages JOAD team and an All Boys/All Ages JOAD team for each bow type (division): Compound, Compound Fingers, Recurve, Barebow, and Genesis Barebow, but no mixed gender nor mixed bow types. You may enter up to three archers for each team. JOAD clubs may enter multiple teams in each division using an archer only once per division. For the team round, archers will use their score from their individual round. All team members must belong to the reporting JOAD club.
ADULTS (SENIOR) ARCHERS: There will also be a separate category for adults. They will follow the same rules / fees and you can use the same reporting form. Please encourage the adults that support your club to support this activity. Adult teams are welcome and encouraged to participate. Adult teams will follow the same rules and fee structure as the JOAD Teams…”

I suggest contacting whomever manages your clubs submittal and have them submit “All Ages JOAD team” and “Adult teams are welcome and encouraged to participate”. There is time if you can get the results and payment to the address indicated in time.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

uh bob, if you look at the results you will see the following

adult teams competed against junior teams not separately as was the case last year

secondly, at least one of the compound teams had someone who shot as an adult on a team with two JOADs. It was the team with Chris Luman

I already asked Diane Watson and she said as long as the archers were of the same sex and same bow time, age was not an issue.

as I said Bob, just look at the results from the fall shoot


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

i was really surprised to have the middle score on the team, concidereing that i was the only youth on it. lucky day i guess :wink:



Jim C said:


> uh bob, if you look at the results you will see the following
> 
> adult teams competed against junior teams not separately as was the case last year
> 
> ...


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Xcreekarchery1 said:


> i was really surprised to have the middle score on the team, concidereing that i was the only youth on it. lucky day i guess :wink:


good shooting with a compound-better than twinky 1 did:wink:


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> uh bob, if you look at the results you will see the following
> 
> adult teams competed against junior teams not separately as was the case last year
> 
> ...


Combining makes sense when there are a limited number of teams. I hope that there are more teams so that a separation can actually take place. Plan big and then adjust as needed to effect a practical result. 
Good luck teams!


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> Combining makes sense when there are a limited number of teams. I hope that there are more teams so that a separation can actually take place. Plan big and then adjust as needed to effect a practical result.
> Good luck teams!


well Bob I know we aren't the biggest club--the guy who won "volunteer coach" was credited with having 200 people in his JOAD club--yet we had the most entries by far for the fall shoot with Halls right behind us. This time we entered 35 individuals which is basically all but say 4 people in our club (No we couldn't talk Darrell into shooting ) participating. Plus we entered 7 teams 3 male recurve, 2 male compound, one ladies recurve one ladies compound.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> well Bob I know we aren't the biggest club--the guy who won "volunteer coach" was credited with having 200 people in his JOAD club--yet we had the most entries by far for the fall shoot with Halls right behind us. This time we entered 35 individuals which is basically all but say 4 people in our club (No we couldn't talk Darrell into shooting ) participating. Plus we entered 7 teams 3 male recurve, 2 male compound, one ladies recurve one ladies compound.


We need more CJO like clubs. One or two clubs "aint goin 2 get er dun". We need more club leaders willing to dive in and do what it takes. I thought that volunteer club leaders could get it done. After a decade, I know that I was definately wrong. We need motivated club leaders to lead 1000s of active clubs. And that means paying for instructors and coaches time so instructors and coaches can afford to take the time to teach. We need to take what the youths do seriously.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> We need more CJO like clubs. One or two clubs "aint goin 2 get er dun". We need more club leaders willing to dive in and do what it takes. I thought that volunteer club leaders could get it done. After a decade, I know that I was definately wrong. We need motivated club leaders to lead 1000s of active clubs. And that means paying for instructors and coaches time so instructors and coaches can afford to take the time to teach. We need to take what the youths do seriously.


I am a volunteer coach, so is Darrell Pace and my wife Liz. I made archery my main charitable target. We built an indoor range that all are welcome to use. I have acquired at least a couple dozen full tilt bows our students can use. No one gets paid in our club. THe money we collect pays for rent at a national guard armory and targets and matts


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> I am a volunteer coach, so is Darrell Pace and my wife Liz. I made archery my main charitable target. We built an indoor range that all are welcome to use. I have acquired at least a couple dozen full tilt bows our students can use. No one gets paid in our club. THe money we collect pays for rent at a national guard armory and targets and matts


 You make my point. How many clubs are like CJO? Very few if any others. We cant depend on the charity of a few special people to support the demand for youth target archery. I go so far to say that it is irresponsible for our community to depend on the good deeds of a few. If we care about youth target archery, shouldnt we care enough to support it in a sustainable way? A way where a person can make a living supporting youth archery?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> You make my point. How many clubs are like CJO? Very few if any others. We cant depend on the charity of a few special people to support the demand for youth target archery. I go so far to say that it is irresponsible for our community to depend on the good deeds of a few. If we care about youth target archery, shouldnt we care enough to support it in a sustainable way? A way where a person can make a living supporting youth archery?


well I will post this again

Squash has no olympics

Squash has no real pro tour with thousands of fans in the USA

yet there are more squash pros in the USA than archery pros and what I mean by that is there are two guys who support themselves by teaching squash at a club I belong to. Three people in cincinnati who are teaching professionals. 

why? because being a good squash player gives an applicant to Yale, harvard, trinity, stanford (women only) and other top schools a major edge.

If kids could get into Princeton or Duke by being gold olympians with B+ averages believe me Bob, lots of parents would be willing to pay someone like you or me lots of money to give their kid that edge

in 2006, 20,000 or so kids applied to Yale. 8-9% got in

the coaches at Yale submitted 256 names to the admissions office as "picks"

206 or so got in 80% acceptance vs 9% acceptance.

that is why parents at my club fork up big bucks--some spend over 15K a year in clinics, coaching and summer squash camps


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim C said:


> well I will post this again
> 
> Squash has no olympics
> 
> ...


Wide spread collegiate archery scholarships would be a great thing. A variety of program development techniques should be encouraged.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Now that the deadline has passed, please submit the results with payment ASAP. Ideally the results would be posted well in advance of the JOAD and USAA Indoor Nationals. 

Tournament results are like a chain. It is only as good as the weakest link. The results cannot be compiled until all the results are received. Don’t be the weak link!


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## archerymom2 (Mar 28, 2008)

While we wait on official scores -- how did everyone do?

From our club, I know we had...

Lee Ford (senior women recurve) shot a 267 and
Chris Luman (cadet men recurve) shot a 293

Others??


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

archerymom2 said:


> While we wait on official scores -- how did everyone do?
> 
> From our club, I know we had...
> 
> ...


Cadet Male recurve

Sean Curtin-293
Daniel McLaughlin-292
Sean McLaughlin-284
Derek Hsiao- 281 (shot a 280 on the large target last month)

Junior Boys Compound

Brent Hankins-288

Junior Girls Recurve

Chelsea Obrebski-290

Senior Male Compound

Ken Gibson-288
Jason Abner-287
Howard Moshier-283

Cub Boys Recurve

Austin Reifstek-275

Bowmen Boys Recurve

Ian Coombe-282

Senior Men Recurve

Jim Coombe-285

those were our more competitive scores based on past results


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

It seems that very few people on this board wh are associated with JOAD clubs made much of an effort to push the mail in tournament or the cause it supports


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

The Mail-In's should be the biggest tournaments of the year as the kids can shoot at their home ranges. The young shooters parents avoid the expense of travel to the JOAD Nationals, and US Indoor Nationals venues and yet still see where their children fit in nationally. It is interesting as those "official tournaments" are mail-ins as well with much higher entry fees. It is puzzling the numbers are down this year, perhaps the two mail-in totals will match that of last year. What the results do show is a handful of clubs have amazing shooters and strong programs. Congratulations to all the coaches and parents.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

There are four JOAD clubs in Ohio-once there was six but the one in Toledo and the Miami Valley Club run by Hobart Murphy have ceased to exist. HOwever, other than a couple kids from Manning's ACE archers, we were the only one to make any effort. Crooked River had a fair number of entries last year-maybe they will in this January one.

Ever since I started running the CJO we have stressed this event and with it going to support Ann Hoyt's legacy we made it even more of a priority. Its too bad that some of the other clubs do not. My kids who win in both this event and on the national tournament circuit would rather have all the top kids in this event.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Jim, this quote is most interesting to me:
"Miami Valley Club run by Hobart Murphy have ceased to exist"
If JOAD is to grow, we need more clubs, not less. Can you tell us the circumstances of Miami Valley ceasing to exist? I think there are lessons to be learned.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> Jim, this quote is most interesting to me:
> "Miami Valley Club run by Hobart Murphy have ceased to exist"
> If JOAD is to grow, we need more clubs, not less. Can you tell us the circumstances of Miami Valley ceasing to exist? I think there are lessons to be learned.


when I started with CJO, there were two clubs just north of us. CJO is mostly in the northern suburbs of Cincinnati and 15 miles up I 75 or so is Middletown Ohio. Hobart had a club that used a YMCA as I recall-the YMCA had been expanded and they were in the top floor of the older part. He also helped coach-at one point-another club in Troy, OHio which is a few miles north of Dayton though by the time I was coaching, he was no longer really involved in that club. That second club shot at a commercial range called Tackle Shack and at one time it had a fairly large number of archers. At the time a few parents were running that club. 

At some point Hobart's work took him out of the area and I believe the venue at the Middletown YMCA was no longer available. As to the club at the tackle shack I really don't know all the answers. Up until a few years ago they would send a couple kids to state joad tournament but I understand there is no joad club at the tackle shack. Maybe if DOn Casteel reads this he might add some more information. It is sad both clubs disappeared, they had a good rivalry with our kids and had kids do well at the state tournaments


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Still five days to go before the result are due to be received, Yikes. And then the results are compiled, press release generated and posted. I cant wait to see how the clubs did.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> Still five days to go before the result are due to be received, Yikes. And then the results are compiled, press release generated and posted. I cant wait to see how the clubs did.


Hopefully it won't take 3 weeks to get the second set of results up-I realize Diane had ATA, LAS, and a national joad meeting to handle in January after the scores came in

what is sad is that so few people here on ATA had any involvement in this tournament


its also sad that CJO had the most entries when we are a medium sized club at best. I read about that guy who was selected as volunteer coach of the year having 200 kids in his program--where are t hey in this event?


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

*DATUS has a young program.*

Our club has 200 kids who have registered and shown up at various times during the past two seasons. Many of our shooters are in the 5 to 8 year old range. Unfortunately yeoman isn't recognized by NAA, and therefore most of our young shooters have no real opportunities to compete. Eighteen meters is an intermediate distance. Our intermediate group is much smaller and is well represented finishing in the top ten in each division entered. Our cadet female recurve won her division last year as did our junior male compound, who is on Jr. USAT this year. Our cadet female recurve shot a 275 last week and will likely be the champion again. In addition, all our bowman entrants are really yeoman shooting up a division. We supported the event early last year, later last year and submitted scores last week which we might see posted before spring. And, our club pays 100% of the entry fees. We would be delighted to see national recognition of the yeoman class, as that is the bulk of our program right now. So we have quality and quantity. I suspect the Korean kids start younger than we do, perhaps that's why we never seem to catch up.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

I agree with the full support of the Yeoman class. My 8 year old is technically shooting up in the compound Bowman class, but likes shooting at 18 meters for indoor. He is somewhat of a rarity, along with 4 of his peers. 

At this time, there are five kids that I know in the greater Phoenix area that are 8, shoot compound, and compete up in the Bowman class (two girls and three boys). All 5 of them can hold their own quite well. However, the various coaches and the shops that they work with have done some stuff with arrow configs (or in my son's case - he was successful in upping poundage and shooting 23 and 27 sized arrows) so they can be competitive. 

This is literally the future of our sport. I have a similar beef with NASP and their 4th grade rule. We're excluding a lot when we are doing what we are right now. 

-Steve
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> ...This is literally the future of our sport. I have a similar beef with NASP and their 4th grade rule. We're excluding a lot when we are doing what we are right now.
> -Steve
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If the young are the future, and they are, then we must encourage proper form and execution and not score. Proper form and execution are key to archery as a lifetime sport. It is also the key to winning gold.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=811447&highlight=plays
The trick is make it fun to execute with proper from.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> This is literally the future of our sport. I have a similar beef with NASP and their 4th grade rule. We're excluding a lot when we are doing what we are right now.
> 
> -Steve
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Serious Fun said:


> If the young are the future, and they are, then we must encourage proper form and execution and not score. Proper form and execution are key to archery as a lifetime sport. It is also the key to winning gold.
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=811447&highlight=plays
> The trick is make it fun to execute with proper from.


I couldn't make the PLAYS link work. Sorry - USA Archery butchered the article off off it's web site. 

Back to the subject - 

This is where the trickiness comes into play. And, my infamous bluntness is going to show up again - not to be a pain, but wanting to merely demonstrate the difficulty involved in where discussions like this can lead. And, for discussion's sake, I am going to play a devil's advocate position where it may not be a popular one. 

Starting off, everyone says "make it fun" and "scores are unimportant".

Well, kids are far more astute than we give them credit for. They understand far well that after a short while, successful archers have higher scores. 

Kids of the video game generation want instant gratification. Again, video game success means higher scores. Success in many sports in general means higher scores.

Heck, a lot of metrics are based on some sort of scoring. And, unlike video games, real life doesn't have a reset button. (Apologies to Volkswagen for stealing their tagline.)

Whether the higher scores are personal bests or enough to get awards of some sort, success in some way has to occur at some point in time. Fun only goes so far until the child realizes that they have been fed a line of garbage and that their ultimate standard is a score.

There has to be some sort of metric needed to help demonstrate the growth of the child. Society judges our children and their success in education based on grades and standardized testing. Those metrics help determine which child is successful based upon some level of societal norms, or in the case of stuff like the SAT/ACT tests, metrics that have been standardized over the course of time. 

In archery, standardized metrics are scores. Plain and simple. I dare someone to show me an alternative standardized metric other than a score for an archer. Anything other than a score is merely subjective. 

Parents also understand that. If instructors want success as a teacher in the long term, the kids they teach have to show improvement....lest why would parents pay good money to just have "fun"?

'Tis a fine tightrope we have here....no? The public view from the powers that be is that we don't care about score, yet if you have to judge the child on their performance, score is the only metric we have to rely upon to grow the sport.

(Again, I'm playing a role play position here....one that I have taken before in other threads.)

Thoughts?

-Steve


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> I couldn't make the PLAYS link work. Sorry - USA Archery butchered the article off off it's web site.
> 
> Back to the subject -
> 
> ...


The link was updated with the new USAA website. the new link can be found on posting #29 of the thread;
http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/documents/attached_file/filename/9235/USSA_Summer_2008.pdf
Its good stuff. We should not give up. If we make it, golds will be our reward in addition to lots of folks that enjoy life long archery personal success.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Now, here's some other thoughts.

As with the original thread that Bob linked to - there are some thought processes that we should consider.

1) In every other sport, you have kids compete against others within their skill level PLUS age level. Using Cal Ripken baseball as an example, you can move a kid back an age group to help with their skill set, but you don't move them up a level in general unless they are to help substitute in a pinch.

Now, the results of the recently finished 2010 AZ JOAD tournament in the boy's Bowman division is interesting. You had a 9, 12, and 8 year old kid place first, second, and third respectively. In this case, the 8 year old held his own and was within 7 points of not only getting his red pin, but also 7 points of taking second.

The same thing with the girl's Bowman division occurred. The age difference between first and second place was 4 years, where the first place winner was 12 years old. Scores showed the 8 year old held her own as well.

With current compound bow technology, you have 5 year olds equipped with a Diamond Nuclear Ice being capable of hitting 20 yards using a 600 spine arrow. The same technology (upgraded a tad to bigger bows) allows an 8 year old boy or girl to achieve outstanding scores for their age. However, reaching 20 yards isn't all of the battle...it's just part of it. 

And that brings up the metric thing again. What are acceptable scores for an 8 year old? And an acceptable distance? Or a 5 year old? Or 6? Or 7? In a tournament of 48 kids, you had one boy and one girl who were younger than the rest of the entire field, and they medaled. Is that a weak field or did these two kids rise up to the occasion?

While some say that the ability and age combined is acceptable for bumping them up to compete with kids far older than they are, I argue that this is doing the kids a disservice.

In any division and sport, you will have people rise to the top. Archery is not exempt from that. 

Having the NGB's ignore and arbitrarily choose 9 years of age as the "acceptable" age and shaft anyone younger is bad for the sport. Other sports expose kids to their methodology as young as 4. Why not archery?

Finally - reading between the lines with USA Archery's published plans for the future, they want to expose more kids and then cherry pick from what they can find. This is normal in any sport. However, taking kids who are interested in archery, throw them into a competitive age group that realistically forces them up a bit in skill level overall, and then otherwise ignores them, is a tragedy.

Yes, this is a Darwinian process. But, as parents and as coaches, we should be giving our kids a fighting chance to succeed. Success doesn't mean you throw them into the ring with someone who's 4 years older (or more) and has greater fine/gross motor skills and greater strength. 

We want fun? Make it so that yeoman can get a fighting chance to succeed in competitions and be competitive against their peers.

I'm sure I'm going to get feedback on "make it fun, not the score" again. Kids are far more aware of what real life is like than they will reveal to their parents and coaches. 

-Steve


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Serious Fun said:


> The link was updated with the new USAA website. the new link can be found on posting #29 of the thread;
> http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/documents/attached_file/filename/9235/USSA_Summer_2008.pdf
> Its good stuff. We should not give up. If we make it, golds will be our reward in addition to lots of folks that enjoy life long archery personal success.


Thanks for the new link!

One minor soundbite - having coached in other sports before going full tilt into archery, I see what other sports have been doing to garner success.

Archery needs to get off the dime and make some hard decisions. 

-Steve


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

*JOAD pin program starts at 9M*

It is interesting that the achievement program starts at 9 meters with very low scores. Our JOAD program is quite large with the majority of shooters under 12. We shoot a 300 round each Friday night and they are awarded pins for achievements, and thanks to Martha Davis certificates for most improvement over last week, zero misses club, over 200 club among others. The kids love it, the youngest the most. We do balloon shoots every month or so, old school but still fun. Equipment is improving and our compound yeoman are giving adults something to think about at 30M. I agree with the previous posts that each and every game our children are obsessed with has score and ever difficult levels as the "only" thing that matters. As a friend notes on Facebook, "life is for score."
Keeping the best, and youngest shooters, interested ought to be a priority.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Perhaps the discussion of age, physical and mental maturity, form, execution and score should migrate to the PLAYS thread.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=811447&highlight=plays

Regarding the second mail in of the season...Was there more participation after the holiday season and as the indoor championships approached?


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

The deadline for the Early 2010 JOAD Mail in has passed. On to the results...
What did the Cadets that are 17 at the end of this year and Juniors that are 20 at the end of this year do?


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