# ATV help. Honda Foreman, Vs Yamaha Kodiak 450 or 700?



## Redball409 (Jan 21, 2010)

Lots of great quads out there. Pick one that fits YOUR needs. 
You do not need a 700 engine for pulling deer or 2 or dragging a harrow. 
Personally, I do not like cvt drives but do like independent rear suspension. 
Of your short list, my preference is a Foreman. Some have the ESP option. Great little workhorse.


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## wi_drenxl (Nov 16, 2008)

Either one will probably last you very long with the use you're talking about. I would only lean towards the yamaha more just because of the auto cvt you don't have to worry about too high of a gear or too low of a gear. I've owned 3 yamaha's with the CVT and can tell you those things are pretty bulletproof. The 450 should have more than enough power for what you want, even plowing. You have to remember you don't have much weight, so even with the 450 you usually spin the tires before you run out of power for plowing or pulling. I used to plow snow with my 350 yamaha bruin and that did fine.


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## Bigeclipse (Jul 7, 2013)

Redball409 said:


> Lots of great quads out there. Pick one that fits YOUR needs.
> You do not need a 700 engine for pulling deer or 2 or dragging a harrow.
> Personally, I do not like cvt drives but do like independent rear suspension.
> Of your short list, my preference is a Foreman. Some have the ESP option. Great little workhorse.


true I do not need 700 but the Kodiak 700 with powerstearing is cheaper than the Foreman ESP another reason leaning towards the Kodiak but I am still considering the Foreman.


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## wi_drenxl (Nov 16, 2008)

Bigeclipse said:


> true I do not need 700 but the Kodiak 700 with powerstearing is cheaper than the Foreman ESP another reason leaning towards the Kodiak but I am still considering the Foreman.


After owning 2 machines with EPS I wouldn't even consider one without it. It really pays off for slow speed maneuvering


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## xpedition (Mar 26, 2015)

Redball409 said:


> Lots of great quads out there. Pick one that fits YOUR needs.
> You do not need a 700 engine for pulling deer or 2 or dragging a harrow.
> Personally, I do not like cvt drives but do like independent rear suspension.
> Of your short list, my preference is a Foreman. Some have the ESP option. Great little workhorse.


It’s maybe a 2,000$ difference between a 450 and 700 Kodiak. Why not get the one with the bigger engine? There will come a day that you need that extra power and be glad you did. Love my 700 grizzly. I’ll never get rid of it. Unless for another grizz


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## Bigeclipse (Jul 7, 2013)

xpedition said:


> It’s maybe a 2,000$ difference between a 450 and 700 Kodiak. Why not get the one with the bigger engine? There will come a day that you need that extra power and be glad you did. Love my 700 grizzly. I’ll never get rid of it. Unless for another grizz


and even less difference between a foreman 500 and the Kodiak 700.


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## JMart294 (Feb 2, 2012)

Honda four wheelers are tanks.


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## Bergloch (Dec 19, 2014)

I’m still dragging deer out of the woods with my 1994 Honda Fourtrax. 200cc. Runs like a top.


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## ironman_gq (May 22, 2012)

as far as CVT goes, Yamaha has the best on the market. They use a hybrid system with a constant engangment CVT and a wet clutch. The belt is always fully engaged and much less prone to slippage while the wet clutch takes care of engaging the drive just like all their old foot shift models did, belts almost never burn up on these. Personally we have both a 450 and 500 Grizzly and a CanAm 800, more power is definitely the way to go. The 450-500 are adequate but they struggle with heavier tasks and tend to run hotter because they are working harder, the 700 would be the way to go in you're set on either a Yamaha or Honda.


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## Jerm (Mar 8, 2009)

2 best pieces of advise I received in that department are...
#1. Buy a Honda and pass it on to your grandkids
#2. NEVER buy a polaris


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## Skel37 (Oct 6, 2012)

I've got a Forman manual shift and love it. Well built, reliable and powerful enough to do anything around the farm with ease. The yamaha would be a good choice as well, but it depends on your personal preferences. The only time manual shifting really bothered me was ice fishing with extremely large -100 rated boots.


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## JMart294 (Feb 2, 2012)

. Again. Hondas are tanks.


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## sirrobinhood (Jun 15, 2005)

You cant go wrong with either! I had 2002 Kodiak and sold to a friend, its still going strong. There has to be 6-7K miles on it. Cousin has a foreman, last I saw it, had around 7K on it.
I would go with whatever fits your budget or flip a coin!


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## Corinth Hunter (May 6, 2009)

Have 2000 Kodiak 400 and have beat it to death and still runs great. As many said above best auto tranny hands down. Also have Yamaha Rhino UTV and personally love the automatics, period. Gears do have some advantage I guess but I’ve, sprayed, disc, plowed snow without issue. 
Honda Yamaha, can’t go wrong with either, size is up to you.


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## Bigeclipse (Jul 7, 2013)

Jerm said:


> 2 best pieces of advise I received in that department are...
> #1. Buy a Honda and pass it on to your grandkids
> #2. NEVER buy a polaris


Lol well I currently own a 2012 Polaris 800efi with 275 problem free hours knock on wood lol. I use it so much and really depend on it that it is making want to get a second quad as a backup until the Polaris dies


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## MJF1229 (Jan 24, 2013)

I personally would go with the Yamaha. I have a 2002 Kodiak 400 and it does everything I need it too, even does better in the trails than some much bigger Polaris. Just gotta use low gear when you are doing lower speed work, plowing or spraying and such.

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## Jerm (Mar 8, 2009)

Bigeclipse said:


> Lol well I currently own a 2012 Polaris 800efi with 275 problem free hours knock on wood lol. I use it so much and really depend on it that it is making want to get a second quad as a backup until the Polaris dies


The Polaris look nice and have all the flashy bells and whistles....but I really think their weakness lies in the belt driven system....of the 3 drive systems belts are the weakest.....a chain driven system is much more problem free....then Honda uses a shaft drive...cant beat it! My Dad wares another Polaris ranger out every 2 or 3 years...in that time frame each unit has been in the shop average 3 times per year....pricey too. I harp on him about how tuff Honda is yet he still gets a new Polaris Ranger at 30K each! On a sidenote he has a Kawasaki MULE thats near 20 years old and going strong.


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## South West (Jul 21, 2016)

The 450Honda has more power than you will ever need . I used to wonder what to buy but after owning Hondas for many years I am sold on them. I have a Foreman 450 bought new in 2003 and it runs as good today as it did the day I bought it . Haul deer, elk antelope, oryx on it NO problem, plow snow up here at 7500 feet NO problem , it gets run all over the mountains by 4 family members NO problem . New battery and 4 new tires, oil and filters is all I have ever had to do to it 3200 miles on it. Great machines !!!


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## 92python (Jul 24, 2006)

One thing I like about manual shift ATVs is that you can put them in a higher gear and they are much more quiet (engine wise) that the automatics I have driven. They also get much better mileage when you put around in a higher gear. I have 2 automatics right now (03 Kawasaki Prairie 360 and a 17 Polaris Ranger 570 UTV full size) and they are way louder than my old Arctic Cat 300 foot shift or by buddies Honda Rancher with the thumb shift manual transmission that I drove around last weekend. My next wheeler will have a manual tranny. Plowing with a 300 or 360 has never been a problem and I have never had power steering and have no issues steering the machine.


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## Bigeclipse (Jul 7, 2013)

Jerm said:


> The Polaris look nice and have all the flashy bells and whistles....but I really think their weakness lies in the belt driven system....of the 3 drive systems belts are the weakest.....a chain driven system is much more problem free....then Honda uses a shaft drive...cant beat it! My Dad wares another Polaris ranger out every 2 or 3 years...in that time frame each unit has been in the shop average 3 times per year....pricey too. I harp on him about how tuff Honda is yet he still gets a new Polaris Ranger at 30K each! On a sidenote he has a Kawasaki MULE thats near 20 years old and going strong.


I agree with what you say but from what I have read, typically what goes wrong with a belt system is the belt fails. Well...belts are cheap and it is a do-it-yourself install. Shaft and chain drives are another story. But yes, I have certainly heard all the horror stories of Polaris and longevity. Between plowing my drive way and spraying chemicals and driving the quad to and from my stand, I likely will only put up to 20hrs if not less on the atv a year. Takes me 30min to plow driveway and I had to plow 6 times last year = 3 hrs. Takes me 2 hours to chemical spray all my fields. So saying 20 hours is likely WAY over what I truly will do. My guess is any ATV I buy will last me a long time due to the low usage.


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## Shwaggy (Jun 28, 2018)

Bigeclipse said:


> My number one priority is dependability.


I have a 20 year old Honda Fourtrax 350 that has been absolutely brutalized and is still running strong to this day.


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## chaded (Jan 15, 2011)

Bigeclipse said:


> I agree with what you say but from what I have read, typically what goes wrong with a belt system is the belt fails. Well...belts are cheap and it is a do-it-yourself install. Shaft and chain drives are another story. But yes, I have certainly heard all the horror stories of Polaris and longevity. Between plowing my drive way and spraying chemicals and driving the quad to and from my stand, I likely will only put up to 20hrs if not less on the atv a year. Takes me 30min to plow driveway and I had to plow 6 times last year = 3 hrs. Takes me 2 hours to chemical spray all my fields. So saying 20 hours is likely WAY over what I truly will do. My guess is any ATV I buy will last me a long time due to the low usage.


Also what has not been mentioned is how many of those “horror stories” are user error?


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## dougell (Aug 29, 2014)

I've had a bunch over the past 30 years.Currently I have a 2014 grizzly 450 with power steering and a 2016 Rancher with thumb shift.Both are used hard and both have been reliable.With that said,I'd take the Honda over the Yamaha any day of the week.I don't like the IRS on the yamaha and I don't like the position of the handle bars.I also don't care for the lack of low end torque.The Honda in my case was quite a bit less money,more solid,quieter,a little quicker and has a much better bottom end.It's also more stable.Both are good machines but the honda is better in my opinion.The foreman would be better because it has a 12v outlet,a third headlight which is nice when you plow and locking front differential.I'm not a huge fan of the thumb shift.


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## ironman_gq (May 22, 2012)

Bigeclipse said:


> I agree with what you say but from what I have read, typically what goes wrong with a belt system is the belt fails. Well...belts are cheap and it is a do-it-yourself install. Shaft and chain drives are another story. But yes, I have certainly heard all the horror stories of Polaris and longevity. Between plowing my drive way and spraying chemicals and driving the quad to and from my stand, I likely will only put up to 20hrs if not less on the atv a year. Takes me 30min to plow driveway and I had to plow 6 times last year = 3 hrs. Takes me 2 hours to chemical spray all my fields. So saying 20 hours is likely WAY over what I truly will do. My guess is any ATV I buy will last me a long time due to the low usage.


I woudn't say belts are cheap, OEM belts are running up around $200 for the high horsepower machines out there today. Yes you can buy a $40 belt but they do not hold up and you end up blowing belts regularly while the OEM belt goes for 2500mi if you know how drive properly. Biggest killer of the belt is heat, biggest heat maker is the clutch slipping and that usually happens because people don't know when to use Low range.


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## ironman_gq (May 22, 2012)

Jerm said:


> The Polaris look nice and have all the flashy bells and whistles....but I really think their weakness lies in the belt driven system....of the 3 drive systems belts are the weakest.....a chain driven system is much more problem free....then Honda uses a shaft drive...cant beat it! My Dad wares another Polaris ranger out every 2 or 3 years...in that time frame each unit has been in the shop average 3 times per year....pricey too. I harp on him about how tuff Honda is yet he still gets a new Polaris Ranger at 30K each! On a sidenote he has a Kawasaki MULE thats near 20 years old and going strong.


As far as ATV's drive systems go, I wouldn't say that belts are the weakest it's just that Polaris has issues. You have to remember that these belt drives (Polaris, Can Am) are attached to engines making twice the power of their similarly sized competitors some are pushing up on 100hp for an ATV and 180hp in a SXS


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## minixjt (Jul 1, 2018)

At the price point of a new foreman or Yamaha 700; I'd almost recommend a Pioneer 500 UTV for the extra utility


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## wi_drenxl (Nov 16, 2008)

ironman_gq said:


> As far as ATV's drive systems go, I wouldn't say that belts are the weakest it's just that Polaris has issues. You have to remember that these belt drives (Polaris, Can Am) are attached to engines making twice the power of their similarly sized competitors some are pushing up on 100hp for an ATV and 180hp in a SXS


The belt becomes the issue in Can-Am and Polaris because of how they engage. In those machines the primary clutch is always turning and the belt only engages once you hit enough RPM to engage the clutch to the belt, so basically you're slipping the belt a little every time on initial engagement. Yamaha basically has the belt engaged at times and engages and disengages the primary clutch with a wet clutch on the backside of the primary clutch.


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## Bloodbath1 (Oct 6, 2015)

There will be 3 things left when The End comes..
1.cockroaches 
2. Remington 870’s
3 .last but not least... Honda 4 wheelers ! Especially foot shifts


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## BOHO (Aug 7, 2004)

only Honda's for me.


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## The Old Guy (Mar 28, 2017)

I have a Honda Rubicon. Manual shift and power steering. I use it for hunting, plowing my drive, and just working around in the yard. I have a utility trailer and it is handy for any yard work, or working your hunting ground. I also use a deer sled to drag out my deer. Power steering is nice, especially at slow speeds. A winch is a must. Honda is a tank. They start and run every day for years.


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## LXhuntinPA (Jan 22, 2006)

I have the Yamaha Kodiak 700 with EPS. I test rode the foreman as well. For my needs the Kodiak was the clear winner and was also cheaper than the smaller Honda. I did not like the electronic dual clutch shifting of the Honda especially for plowing snow. I plow my 100 yard paved driveway in the winter with a 60" KFI plow with no problems. I live in the snowbelt. I also use the machine to pull a drag for my plots. I now have a compact tractor to do all the other plot work. I bought mine from a dealer near state college, PA and saved 3k over our local dealers. It's nice having all the extra power of the 700 when you want/need it.


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## WarriorVanes (Dec 4, 2016)

+1 for Honda. I have a 2005 Fourman 500 that I bought new. Its been used and abused and I've never had to replace a thing other than oil, filters and tires.


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## dougell (Aug 29, 2014)

Track and Trail?Yep,you can get some good deals there.


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## deer310sg (Feb 20, 2006)

BOHO said:


> only Honda's for me.


^^^^^^

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

I don't think you can go wrong with a kawasaki, Honda or Yamaha. If it's just for work like you say, I'd go Honda w o thinking. i do have a dedicated yamaha bruin 350 for ice fishing, it's an 06 and has had zero issues starting or pulling anything. I been using it a lot this year on the farm as well. Personally have owned a Kawasaki Prairie, Honda Rubicon and Foreman and a Yamaha bruin. Only machine I don't have yet is the Kawasaki, sold it to my brother.
I have nothing bad to say about any of them and all are over 12 years old, done nothing to any of them but oil changes, adjusted the idle, brake maintenance and ripped off a plastic skid plate on the Yamaha. 

as far as power, i've dragged a harrow with the 350 no problem. I can honestly say, for farm use or hunting, The yamaha has done just as good of a job dragging trailers or whatever. Only noticeable difference is the top end speed and the 350 is lower the ground. the new ones are higher on all machines, Honestly i'd get 450, 700 you'll never need.

I plowed with a 350 and i've dragged 2 deer out and a person on back with a 350. Yeah it squats and sounds like it works hard, but it always runs. My foreman will never die, I think my kids will have that thing, as others say, it's a tank. You'll pay up front for it though.


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## kstatemallards (Mar 7, 2007)

I owned a Yamaha Grizzly and now my buddy owns it. (Have a Polaris Ranger XP900 now) 

I almost bought a Honda but didn’t want to bother with the shifting. Yamaha drove so much smoother. It was an easy decision for me and it’s never had any problems. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ego260 (Dec 26, 2011)

Plowing driveways you’ll want the 700. Anything else, 450 is more than enough.


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## Carnivorous (Oct 20, 2014)

Another 2002 Kodiak here. We have just worked the pants off of that thing and can't kill it. It still pulls a 1000lbs feeder everyday to feed bulls. My son plays on it, my wife checks cattle on it, my nephews wreak it. I blow steam on It when things dont go my way...... just keeps on ticking. 
Everyday I'm impressed with (Old Faithful).


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## dougell (Aug 29, 2014)

ego260 said:


> Plowing driveways you’ll want the 700. Anything else, 450 is more than enough.


I agree that bigger is better but we get a lot of snow in northern Pa and I plow with a 429cc rancher with no issues.


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## Blockcaver (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm always amazed how much snow my 2002 Rubicon (500) will push with the 60" moose plow. It makes short work of the snow I get here. The old Honda is a great unit for plowing and I never wanted a bigger quad for that purpose. Good luck with your ATV purchase.


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

I personally think ATV plowing is just a 'hobby". I can use my 2 stage snow blower and be done in a 1/3 of the time. then, when you get a ton of snow and you have piles, good luck moving them. One year I had to bring out the tractor and move piles just to snow plow with the ATV. I don't use the ATV to plow anymore. If i want to be away from the wife for 2 hours i use the ATV but if i'm in a hurry, ATV's is NOT the answer. Plus plowing is the toughest on them. ATV plowing IMO is just a hobby.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

Yamaha has locking front & rear differentials, Honda doesn't. After owning both I'll never go back to Honda


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## Blockcaver (Dec 18, 2011)

Sounds like Early Ice lives in Buffalo, NY or somewhere they get many feet of heavy wet snow. Where I'm at the ATV with the 60" blade angled, makes short work of my 250 yard long driveway, plus circle drive and turn-around with the snow we typically get. If we get a mega-dump, (rare) I fire up the 43 HP John Deere with the loader and move the ATV piles back. And heck yes it is fun to plow snow with the ATV....more fun than the John Deere or with a 2' snow blower for the large amount of plowing I have!


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## dougell (Aug 29, 2014)

YRhinefield said:


> Yamaha has locking front & rear differentials, Honda doesn't. After owning both I'll never go back to Honda


The foreman's and rubicons have a locking front differential.


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## Bigeclipse (Jul 7, 2013)

Early Ice said:


> I personally think ATV plowing is just a 'hobby". I can use my 2 stage snow blower and be done in a 1/3 of the time. then, when you get a ton of snow and you have piles, good luck moving them. One year I had to bring out the tractor and move piles just to snow plow with the ATV. I don't use the ATV to plow anymore. If i want to be away from the wife for 2 hours i use the ATV but if i'm in a hurry, ATV's is NOT the answer. Plus plowing is the toughest on them. ATV plowing IMO is just a hobby.


I have a rock driveway so using a snowblower is a no go. Had one (even raised to an appropriate level) and still managed to send a rock through a window once. I did state I snowplow very occasionally. Any heavy snow, and my father-in-law will plow my driveway with his truck. the atv I have now I only plow small light snows as it is not worth my fathers time to come over. It seems the manual foot shift, while being most dependable, is off the list since it will not accommodate large boots.


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## The Old Guy (Mar 28, 2017)

YRhinefield said:


> Yamaha has locking front & rear differentials, Honda doesn't. After owning both I'll never go back to Honda


My Honda Rubicon does! After owning this one, I will never go away from Honda, but I guess I won’t have to because this one will last forever.


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

Bigeclipse said:


> I have a rock driveway so using a snowblower is a no go. Had one (even raised to an appropriate level) and still managed to send a rock through a window once. I did state I snowplow very occasionally. Any heavy snow, and my father-in-law will plow my driveway with his truck. the atv I have now I only plow small light snows as it is not worth my fathers time to come over. It seems the manual foot shift, while being most dependable, is off the list since it will not accommodate large boots.


Yes, that makes sense, been there too. Nothing like tiny projectiles flying all over.


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

Blockcaver said:


> Sounds like Early Ice lives in Buffalo, NY or somewhere they get many feet of heavy wet snow. Where I'm at the ATV with the 60" blade angled, makes short work of my 250 yard long driveway, plus circle drive and turn-around with the snow we typically get. If we get a mega-dump, (rare) I fire up the 43 HP John Deere with the loader and move the ATV piles back. And heck yes it is fun to plow snow with the ATV....more fun than the John Deere or with a 2' snow blower for the large amount of plowing I have!


LOL, no not buffalo, but we do get enough snow where if you don't plan ahead and plow the snow 8 feet off the drive, eventually you will run out of area to put it. Once you have a pile, you aren't moving it with a ATV


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## wi_drenxl (Nov 16, 2008)

YRhinefield said:


> Yamaha has locking front & rear differentials, Honda doesn't. After owning both I'll never go back to Honda


You put those things in low range and lock the diffs and they're like a tank.


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## nodog2 (Dec 12, 2016)

the difference between a 450 and a 700 isn't worth considering...it's not like one is lean and mean and the other is big and uses brute force, both are lean and mean except one is a little meaner...no reason not to get the 700 except maybe the cost.

when and if you need the 700 you'll be glad you did and there are plenty of reason you might given the conditions...I think resale is a bit better. 

Personally I like not shifting and power steering would be nice, but when it comes down to it what your dragging will lift the front, free power steering.  I drag fire wood up all winter and use every bit of my 600 to do it...looking to up grade myself.

both are excellent machines.


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## bigbuck200 (Jul 21, 2018)

If money is not and issue , I would go with the bigger machine especially if your going to be plowing snow or doing food plots .


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## BudLKillin (Jul 9, 2018)

I really liked my 700 that poor thing got a work out and never had issues with it


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## bigbuck200 (Jul 21, 2018)

BudLKillin said:


> I really liked my 700 that poor thing got a work out and never had issues with it


I have a 700 Polaris Sportsman that I bought new in 2004 and I still have it . Geez, what I put that thing thru and the things I did to that machine hard to beleive its still running .


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## Early Ice (Mar 18, 2008)

the "polaris are junk" is a myth. My buddy works on ATV's and sleds for a living. I've asked him MANY times, why is it that people bag on Polaris? He says there are just more out there. He does fix more Polaris, but he says they are very nice, well built machines for a person on a budget. They aren't piles of crap, so he claims. I still wouldn't buy one though....iv'e had way too much luck with yammy, honda, kawasaki to go to something "budget". 

Anther reason I wouldn't buy Polaris is a memory of a brand new Polaris not starting is stuck in my head forever. My buddy bought a brand new Polaris Sportsman about 20 years ago. We dragged the SOB to deer camp 5 hours north. The SOB didn't start all weekend. We even dropped it off at a local mechanic, he just peeked at it quick and it wasn't anything we over looked. To this day, Polaris just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention we dragged deer for over 2 miles that year. I spent close to 7 hours dragging my buck out. Just dumb!


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## BudLKillin (Jul 9, 2018)

bigbuck200 said:


> I have a 700 Polaris Sportsman that I bought new in 2004 and I still have it . Geez, what I put that thing thru and the things I did to that machine hard to beleive its still running .


I'm telling you, there a beast


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## wi_drenxl (Nov 16, 2008)

Early Ice said:


> the "polaris are junk" is a myth. My buddy works on ATV's and sleds for a living. I've asked him MANY times, why is it that people bag on Polaris? He says there are just more out there. He does fix more Polaris, but he says they are very nice, well built machines for a person on a budget. They aren't piles of crap, so he claims. I still wouldn't buy one though....iv'e had way too much luck with yammy, honda, kawasaki to go to something "budget".
> 
> Anther reason I wouldn't buy Polaris is a memory of a brand new Polaris not starting is stuck in my head forever. My buddy bought a brand new Polaris Sportsman about 20 years ago. We dragged the SOB to deer camp 5 hours north. The SOB didn't start all weekend. We even dropped it off at a local mechanic, he just peeked at it quick and it wasn't anything we over looked. To this day, Polaris just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not to mention we dragged deer for over 2 miles that year. I spent close to 7 hours dragging my buck out. Just dumb!


I'd never buy one because whenever we go trail riding and you come across a broke down machine 80% of the time its a Polaris. But Can-Am is starting to make up ground with burned up belts now


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## ironman_gq (May 22, 2012)

wi_drenxl said:


> I'd never buy one because whenever we go trail riding and you come across a broke down machine 80% of the time its a Polaris. But Can-Am is starting to make up ground with burned up belts now


90% of burned up belts regardless of manufacuterer are either improper driving or poor clutch maintenance, they aren't built to go 5-10mph all day in high range or push a plow in high range. The clutch can't move enough air at those speeds to keep cool, you should really use low range at speeds under 20mph. Glazed or sticky sheaves/weights will also cause a lot of problems. Now Polaris has some major issues I have a friend in a lawsuit with them over machines bursting into flames and some less than stellar maneuvers on their part to try and get him to go away. Either way he had one machine that burst into flames and on that blew up the motor twice, all with fairly standard trail riding. Not to mention the front differentials that just can't seem to stay together.


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