# Black Hunter Vs samick sage for first bow?



## FuryDeliverMe (Jun 1, 2017)

Shoot compounds, want to get into traditional, I am going to get #30 limbs to practice then #45 to hunt white tail and turkey with, I have been pretty set on the Sage but the more I see the black hunter the more I like it, I have shot both at the archery shop but they feel about the same to me, anyone with more knowledge can tell me if the black hunter is worth the extra $20 or not? the sage is $114 and the hunter is $130-140 shipped. any advice thank you I have a 28 inch draw and I am 5'7 so not a very big guy


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Sage. 

Because you can use a lot of different brands of limbs on the same riser. Not "ILF", but any number of bow in the same class from different manufacturers use the same (or easily modified) limb size.


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## aluminated (Oct 10, 2017)

See what Greg has to say:
https://youtu.be/6vRbMvL54xM


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## FuryDeliverMe (Jun 1, 2017)

Would the Phantom 56 be a better bow for me since I am short?


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

Black Hunter.


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## FuryDeliverMe (Jun 1, 2017)

I am only concerned with shootability and longterm durability of the bow if taken care of, I am a short guy and will be using the #45 pound to hunt which do you think the more durable bow?


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

See NuSensei's review of the Black Hunter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbKa9UIOvDA

It is interesting seeing his form degrade shooting the heavy weight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbKa9UIOvDA

He also did a review the Samick Sage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktp9SGutJo8

The Sage has the advantage of being two inches longer at 62. That is still too short for my draw length. If I had a choice I would choose the Sage over the Black Hunter just because of the bow length.

It may be fine at your draw length.

The Sage is also drilled for a plunger, but not a stabilizer. That is unimportant if you never plan on using a rest and plunger setup. I would rank the Sage higher if you could put a short stabilizer on it.

The Black Hunter wins on looks. Also notice in the video that the grip on the Black Hunter supports a grip like what I use target shooting and not what is typically used for traditional. Since I constantly hear that grip is the most important feature, this should be a consideration.

You may be able to form the grip for better fit. Otherwise, this is a test of whether grip is really more important than looks for most archers.


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## aluminated (Oct 10, 2017)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> ...The Sage is also drilled for a plunger, but not a stabilizer. That is unimportant if you never plan on using a rest and plunger setup. I would rank the Sage higher if you could put a short stabilizer on it...


I thought the front bushing on the Sage was for a stabilizer. ???


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I thought there was a front bushing. I pulled up a picture before posting and there was none. Hum....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## penumbra (Aug 23, 2016)

I have owned them both and I would go with the Black Hunter if these were my only 2 choices.


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## aluminated (Oct 10, 2017)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> I thought there was a front bushing. I pulled up a picture before posting and there was none. Hum....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


For the record...


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

FuryDeliverMe said:


> Would the Phantom 56 be a better bow for me since I am short?


If you’re talking about the Mandarin Duck Phantom, I really like this bow, but I think it’s an improvement to put Sage or similar limbs on the Phantom riser. I have 4 of them, 2 standard 56” versions and 2 with Samick Polaris limbs (discontinued, but pretty much the same as Sage limbs). Everyone who has tried them has been very pleasantly surprised.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Couple of Phantom/Polaris bows and a couple of original Phantoms


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I pulled up the picture again. I mistook the stabilizer bushing for a limb bolt.


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## FuryDeliverMe (Jun 1, 2017)

Is the black hunter a durable bow? i know the samick and the black hunter havent been around for 20+ years but i want something I can keep for the rest of my life assuming no catastrophic failure or my home burning down haha I want something that will last.


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## aluminated (Oct 10, 2017)

Forgive my presumption, but I think you’re thinking way too far ahead with respect to a $100 - $150 bow.
Additionally, I believe an owner is far more likely to break a bow (any bow) than it is to fail on its own. The same thought goes for almost any commodity, especially in hobbies and sports.


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## DaveHawk (Jul 16, 2009)

I bought the Black Hunter for my wife and we both are pleased. I was actually surprised at the fit and finish of the bow considering the price, and it shoots very well. I have posted pics of it on AT before because it is so beautiful.


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## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

I have both, the black hunter is faster, smoother and more forgiving from my experience, both are 45lbs and both are shooting a similar arrow


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

look on you tube & find where they torture tested the black hunter or mandrin duck,,, unbelievable what it took & still shoot.


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## daedalus.pl (May 27, 2018)

Black Hunter is much better bow IMO. The hybrid longbow version shoots great and it draws smooth to 31" even though it's only 60" bow.

What's more, you can get the Black Hunter directly from Aliexpress for about $95 and replacement limbs for less than $50.


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## FuryDeliverMe (Jun 1, 2017)

How do I tell the difference between the recurve version and the longbow?

like which version is this? says recurve in the title but all of them say recurve AND longbow on ali express

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/60-..._expid=bc5f8e0c-2b50-4ea6-b005-199dad455bc8-0


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Those are the recuve limbs. The longbow is listed at the bottom right for $98.99.


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## FuryDeliverMe (Jun 1, 2017)

thank you!


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## daedalus.pl (May 27, 2018)

Please avoid that seller. I bought 3 times from him and each time my package was "lost". I waited more than 2 months for my first 2 packages, the third one never came. He probably doesn't even send the items at first.

Here's a much more reliable seller, I had no problems buying from him: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pc...s-60Inch-Right-Hand-Shooting/32915864089.html

This is the hybrid longbow version, but he also has the recurve version if you want: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Hunting-Accessories/3666033_32961665048.html


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## 3D Archery (May 19, 2016)

I love the Sage, but the Black Hunter is better in almost every aspect. 

The only advantage the sage has is the taps for the plungers, stabilizer etc. Junxing (who makes the Black Hunter) is going to add those to a higher level bow.
The Black Hunter has a radiused shelf and riser, which is really nice.
The Black Hunter riser can be bought as a long bow or recruve, both use the same riser

If you are worried about durability, check out this video of the torture test they did on the Black Hunter


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## FuryDeliverMe (Jun 1, 2017)

you guys are awesome thanks for all the info seriously made this much easier! also awesome stress test video but that dudes gas mask is creepy haha any decent practice feathered arrows on aliexpress? I am seeing 6 turkey feather 30 inch arrows for $15 shipped, I just need something to practice with as I learn and wont care about breaking or losing, how do you pick the bow poundage on the recurve page when ordering?(https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...&terminal_id=835cd171e52a4f49875a307c8a745008)

i saw it on the other sellers page but not this one


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## NCTribute (Jan 28, 2007)

Ebay


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## Melly (Jul 17, 2019)

Black hunter $86.99 at huntingdoor.com, the lowest price I can found online with same quality. Order one for my wife 30lbs, she is love it.


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## Melly (Jul 17, 2019)




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## TGbow (Jun 24, 2016)

I have a Sage and it shoots as good/better than lot of high dollar bows I've had.
I would recommend the Spyder takedown though. The Spyder is an improved Sage overall.
The Sage limbs will fit the Spyder riser since it's the same basic design riser.
I would recommend a low stretch strung, it makes a big difference in feel and performance.


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## ZephrusPrime (Dec 2, 2012)

I would go with the Black Hunter that has bamboo core limbs. The BH is just super sweet. Very stable weight riser along with the radiused shelf, you can shoot both recurve or longbow. However the new Sage made by Lancaster is quite nice. They streamlined the quality and even got rid of the metal pockets.


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## smokie999 (Jun 18, 2019)

daedalus.pl said:


> Please avoid that seller. I bought 3 times from him and each time my package was "lost". I waited more than 2 months for my first 2 packages, the third one never came. He probably doesn't even send the items at first.
> 
> Here's a much more reliable seller, I had no problems buying from him: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pc...s-60Inch-Right-Hand-Shooting/32915864089.html
> 
> This is the hybrid longbow version, but he also has the recurve version if you want: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...-Hunting-Accessories/3666033_32961665048.html


I had serious problems with that seller you have linked to .I received damaged limbs and was promised a replacement set .Promise after promise from him said he had posted them then admitted he had not .After months of emails I demanded my money back and was fobbed off again.Finally my bank did a claim back for me.Would not touch him again .Try to avoid buying from China if you can


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## smokie999 (Jun 18, 2019)

Remember when buying this bow the limbs are a specific design cut for that riser so you will be restricted to those particular limbs .


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## J31968 (Aug 29, 2019)

Even though I have acquired a samick r1 and a satori thise black hunters still have an appeal


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## kayak (Jun 20, 2019)

I’ve shot the Sage, but bought a Black Hunter after reading and watching many reviews. It’s optimized for shooting off the shelf, with a curved shelf and riser, which I think is a big plus. I draw 29” and have no problems with stacking. I like it so much I ordered another, with longbow limbs- the deluxe version, with clear glass and nicer wood.


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## joshlanyzs2 (4 mo ago)

martha j said:


> Black Hunter.


why?


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## Toxalot (Nov 17, 2019)

I've shot both and I prefer the Sage. Two reasons. The longer sight window is much better for me for vision and the limbs are easier to obtain domestically as well. I also like the bushings for quiver, sight and stabilizers. And lastly, the damn thing shoots better than many high dollar bows. But that sight window is a big deal for me, I don't know about others. Oh yes, my draw us about 27 1/2" and the Sage performs very well with that short of a draw.


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

I like the Sage. It has a nice big sight window., I also like that it has AMO bushings so you can use a modern quick detach quiver.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

Black Hunter is steal at 4x the price, IMO. A lot of point and shoot confidence in that low torque grip. Stable, great post shot experience and hard hitting.

Our family have many bows, from Hoyts to Bear and Bodnik. In a SHTF scenario I would choose one of my Black Hunter longbows. Damn near indestructible and very forgiving. No time needed to get used to it, just pick it up and go.


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## MihajloSimsic (Aug 8, 2020)

Unless you're planning on hunting with sights, rests, plungers, and stabilizers then the black hunter hands down. 
The black hunters, especially the longbow seems to be one of the faster bows as well with people usually getting around 190fps with 10gpp. The sage is also longer which is less practical when shooting out of treestands or sitting down. 

The sammick sage seems more like a bow for the range rather than hunting. Not that you can't hunt with it but I'll take the sleeker, lighter, faster, and shorter bow in the woods any day.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

MihajloSimsic said:


> Unless you're planning on hunting with sights, rests, plungers, and stabilizers then the black hunter hands down.
> The black hunters, especially the longbow seems to be one of the faster bows as well with people usually getting around 190fps with 10gpp. The sage is also longer which is less practical when shooting out of treestands or sitting down.
> 
> The sammick sage seems more like a bow for the range rather than hunting. Not that you can't hunt with it but I'll take the sleeker, lighter, faster, and shorter bow in the woods any day.


Agreed, the Black Hunter is built for hunting. I know a lot of us keep harping on and on about the Black Hunter, but really it is amazing bang for buck if you're a hunter. Holds up on the range no less. Hard truth is it's leagues above the Sage. A comparison only on price tag.


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## AppolloX (Jul 28, 2021)

ive had both and black hunter for sure, faster, better looking, better grip IMO


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## cheeney (Jul 1, 2013)

In that price range I would take a SWA Spyder XL over both. I've had all 3.


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## Dacronic (4 mo ago)

Twice I've seen it mentioned that the Black Hunter has a radiused rest, but so does the Sage. The Sage has a heavier riser, more forgiving of errors. The Sage can also take pin sights, a stabilizer, and it has a berger button bushing, AND you can set it up for bowfishing.

I have a bunch of vintage trad bows I shoot instinctive with, and they are far nicer than the Manderin Duck Black Hunter. So, for me, a BH may look nicer, shoot faster, and draw smoother "than the Sage", but I have that covered already. Same goes for short hunters. I have six amo 60" bows, and another 6 that are all shorter than 60" ranging from 58" down to 52" 

The versatility of the riser is why I like the Sage, plus the Sage riser will fit the Spyder XL limbs and get you a 64" amo bow.

Even choosing between just those two, I'd still prefer the Sage because I can take it fishing.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

Dacronic said:


> The Sage has a heavier riser, more forgiving of errors.


The grip of the Sage is torque-prone compared to the Black Hunter. The Black Hunter has excellent lifeline and thumb location, mitigating many grip torque challenges and promoting good bone on bone alignment. Due to palm area shaping, grip throat choke is also unlikely for most hands.

All said, if folk want a bow on which to add sights and use for diverse applications (like fishing), explore forward weights and stabilisation, the Sage is the better choice. It's a good bow for those wanting to get into 'barebow' for this reason. However if they want a simple but high performing no BS trad or hunting bow, the Black Hunter is by far the better choice.

Both are good options, for different reasons.


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## Dacronic (4 mo ago)

Remote said:


> The grip of the Sage is torque-prone compared to the Black Hunter. The Black Hunter has excellent lifeline and thumb location, mitigating many grip torque challenges and promoting good bone on bone alignment. Due to palm area shaping, grip throat choke is also unlikely for most hands.
> 
> All said, if folk want a bow on which to add sights and use for diverse applications (like fishing), explore forward weights and stabilisation, the Sage is the better choice. It's a good bow for those wanting to get into 'barebow' for this reason. However if they want a simple but high performing no BS trad or hunting bow, the Black Hunter is by far the better choice.
> 
> Both are good options, for different reasons.


Agreed, I was thinking about "which bow would l get" not "what is best for the OPs intended use". They said they specifically want to trad hunt turkey, and the BH sounds like a better match than the Sage for that mission. The shorter bow would be more appropriate and you don't need the attatchments for all the toys 😁


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## WRC 51 (Sep 11, 2010)

Where is the Black hunter available, I cant seem to find anyone who carries that line. Thanks


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## Dacronic (4 mo ago)

Straight from the website Black Hunter MK II 60" Take Down Recurve Bow - Right Handed - Mandarin Duck Outfitters

Amazon has them https://www.amazon.com/Takedown-Rec...51-9339-0f5a3afcba35&pd_rd_i=B07PYGCJLG&psc=1

I mean, Ebay, Wallmart, Alibaba.... 

Are you searching for "Mandarin Duck Black Hunter Recurve Bow" ?


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## mg1 (6 mo ago)

Here's my Black Hunter with arrow rest, sight pins, and quiver.


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## WRC 51 (Sep 11, 2010)

Thanks Dacronic, never thought about looking at those spots.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

mg1 said:


> Here's my Black Hunter with arrow rest, sight pins, and quiver.
> 
> View attachment 7703372
> 
> ...


Wow, you tapped it for riser mount?


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## Dacronic (4 mo ago)

mg1 said:


> Here's my Black Hunter with arrow rest, sight pins, and quiver.
> 
> View attachment 7703372
> 
> ...


Well shoot man!! I got nothing! WELL done! 👏👏👏👏👏👏


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## MihajloSimsic (Aug 8, 2020)

WRC 51 said:


> Where is the Black hunter available, I cant seem to find anyone who carries that line. Thanks


I got mine off Amazon through Sinoart. It was much cheaper and it's the exact same bow. Although they did send me mismarked limbs, they replaced it for free. Now I have 47# longbow limbs and 40# recurve limbs.


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## mg1 (6 mo ago)

Same, Amazon. Sino Art and Obert are interchangeable with limbs and risers, at least for the recurve version.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

MihajloSimsic said:


> I got mine off Amazon through Sinoart. It was much cheaper and it's the exact same bow. Although they did send me mismarked limbs, they replaced it for free. Now I have 47# longbow limbs and 40# recurve limbs.
> View attachment 7704125
> 
> View attachment 7704127


Looking great. Limb huggers or tape on that BH recurve?


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## MihajloSimsic (Aug 8, 2020)

Remote said:


> Looking great. Limb huggers or tape on that BH recurve?


Just some self adhering cloth tape off amazon.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

MihajloSimsic said:


> Just some self adhering cloth tape off amazon.


Taped up my 55lb BH longbow and when I took the tape off to switch to spandex limb huggers, a layer of clear coat came off in parts. Doesn't look bad and meant for the rough anyway, bought it for hard hunting big boar. Just a head's up.


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## MihajloSimsic (Aug 8, 2020)

Remote said:


> Taped up my 55lb BH longbow and when I took the tape off to switch to spandex limb huggers, a layer of clear coat came off in parts. Doesn't look bad and meant for the rough anyway, bought it for hard hunting big boar. Just a head's up.


Don't need to tell me. I spent the good part of a day cleaning it off with acetone 😂😂. I shoot my bows au naturel now.


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## Te Hopo (12 mo ago)

I'm very happy with my 40lb Black Hunter recurve.
It's affordable, fast and the grip is as comfortable as a lot of people say it is.

I bought some brass sight bushings, drilled and epoxied them into the riser to hold a Quiver.

Now I'm having some elbow issues and am just waiting on a second set of limbs.
I found a set of 25lb recurve limbs that should allow me to keep sending those arrows downrange while I try and heal.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

Te Hopo said:


> I'm very happy with my 40lb Black Hunter recurve.
> It's affordable, fast and the grip is as comfortable as a lot of people say it is.
> 
> I bought some brass sight bushings, drilled and epoxied them into the riser to hold a Quiver.
> ...


Kia ora, nice choice of bow and shafts. Both rugged as anything. Good idea to dial it down while your elbow heals.


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## Te Hopo (12 mo ago)

Remote said:


> Kia ora, nice choice of bow and shafts. Both rugged as anything. Good idea to dial it down while your elbow heals.


Yeah, I love shooting this bow but I'm finding it impossible to try and maintain form when I struggle to shoot more than 10 shots from a 40lb bow. 😕

So my plan is, keep on practicing with the 25lb limbs and some light weight lifting and stretching in my home gym.
I have a 40lb longbow so I can use that as a gauge for how strong I'm feeling


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

had both, kept the SWA Spyder(same as Sage)
my only reason is the tapped riser( .
The B.H. is a nicer feeling bow overall, between the 2 imo


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## ATOWN25 (3 mo ago)

I went with a Black hunter.


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## Remote (Dec 10, 2020)

ATOWN25 said:


> I went with a Black hunter.


Congrats. You will be happy with your choice.


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