# Gotta vent about the I.B.O. a little



## Sudduth49 (Jul 30, 2020)

I shot a solid 8 on that fallow deer and was ok with it, because I could see the 10/11 rings from the stake but was scared over by the tree. As far as the 35 yard max? I don’t think there were any 38 yard targets on those ranges from the yellow stake, but 38 would be fine with me as it keeps you honest judging the 35 yard targets and not able to just put max on one that looks far.


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## Buckdat (May 8, 2019)

Yeah, I was only out of the 10 by about an 1/8", but it says "unobstructed " . If it was a half inch into the right side of the 8 not too big of a deal.
38 may be a stretch, but I don't think that bedded elk was far from it.


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## Billy Goat (Jan 6, 2022)

I don't remember anything in Franklin, tho I smacked the tar out of a small tree in Pipestem on what I think was the Dahl sheep. Definitely has been some shots that depending on how you stand on the stake, you can get some obstruction. I do remember seeing some marked up trees on the way to some targets to score.

I don't know about the max yards, I wasn't shooting yellow, but I always figure it can go 2 over, but never hold that. If I think it's max plus 2, I'll hit bottom 10 and be fine with that.


I just wish people went by actually touching the line, instead of you hit close enough to pull it, just cause it pulled don't mean you touching it.


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## Sudduth49 (Jul 30, 2020)

Buckdat said:


> Yeah, I was only out of the 10 by about an 1/8", but it says "unobstructed " . If it was a half inch into the right side of the 8 not too big of a deal.
> 38 may be a stretch, but I don't think that bedded elk was far from it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 7647599


That Elk was the best set of the shoot, and being the first target he got a lot of people. The target didn’t match the ground, he looked 30 and on the ground looked 36. He wasn’t over 37, my group and I agreed on 36 as we went to the next target.


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## Sudduth49 (Jul 30, 2020)

Billy Goat said:


> I don't remember anything in Franklin, tho I smacked the tar out of a small tree in Pipestem on what I think was the Dahl sheep. Definitely has been some shots that depending on how you stand on the stake, you can get some obstruction. I do remember seeing some marked up trees on the way to some targets to score.
> 
> I don't know about the max yards, I wasn't shooting yellow, but I always figure it can go 2 over, but never hold that. If I think it's max plus 2, I'll hit bottom 10 and be fine with that.
> 
> ...


As an ASA guy who only shoots Rineharts at IBOs, I struggle with the hair on those targets. But, if it doesn’t touch it don’t count…


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## Billy Goat (Jan 6, 2022)

Sudduth49 said:


> As an ASA guy who only shoots Rineharts at IBOs, I struggle with the hair on those targets. But, if it doesn’t touch it don’t count…


Guy argued with me a few weeks ago on an ASA target about an air bubble or void in the foam. The void touched the line, then touched the shaft. He claimed the void is part of the line, that was a new one on me.


Guess you do that enough it can add up a bit.


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## Buckdat (May 8, 2019)

Don't get me wrong, all in all I enjoy myself a lot at these places, and I know there's a ton of work that goes into an event of this size. And really for the most part stuff is run pretty well. There's just those few things that eat at me, and some of it I hear echoed by other shooters.


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## Trailmasoncliff (Dec 1, 2013)

As a non competitive shooter I love the obstructed shots when I'm needing to shoot through trees and sneak an arrow just over a log to get into the 10 that gets me going. when its just sitting in a open field broadside I might as well be shooting paper targets on the range.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

I didnt shoot ABCD but one of our buddies shot did and he didnt say anything about obstruct killzones, but that doesnt mean there weren't any. Last year at oipestem there were 2 targets that were obstruct and they were noticed. IMHO Tom does a great job setup the Franklin courses and if there were obstructed shots, he must have just missed it. But either way, imwith you....it shouldnt happen.

As for the stake, my bitch is when people step on it so they can gain 10" one way or the other and still touch it. Eventually it becomes hard to find.


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## cougarIIInow (Feb 16, 2003)

I noticed a lot of the stakes were bent over. How about making a stake that cant be bent instead of light wire stakes?


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## Buckdat (May 8, 2019)

I guess maybe that's why they're bent, I always assumed people were a little more honest than that, and that they were bent from being step on or tripped over. 
I have seen people not even attempt touching them, just standing within 2 feet of it. 
I'd like to see a ball on top of the stake, sometimes those flat pieces get knife edged and are hard to find.
And I do totally agree, all in all they do a great job clearing and setting the courses and running the events in general


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

I think it is up to the group to police the rules when it comes to touching the stake. If someone is 2' from it, then I'm saying something before they shoot. If they dont move to touch it, its a zero.

I don't worry about it if they are straddling it, and not touching it, but if they are gaining an advantage by being that far from it, then hell yes I'm calling it. Even if they aren't in my class.


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## gnccr613 (Feb 18, 2014)

I can't comment on the obstruction I didn't shoot those courses but I had friends who did and didn't say anything about it, but that doesnt mean it wasnt there. The feedback I got was they were some of the best courses that have ever been set. If you see something that is against the rules speak up, call it. If they don't like it then call in a range official. More often than not the guys who are bending the rules aren't the ones putting up high scores and winning.


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## jarlickin12 (Jul 28, 2009)

I shot the same ranges at Franklin and I noticed what you are taking about. The A 9 fallow deer had a small right side portion of the 10 covered by a tree at least from where the shooting stake was when our group came through. I held my pin right on the edge of the tree and focused on making a good shot as I have a tendency to pull away subconsciously in that scenario. My arrow grazed the tree but did stick in the 8 ring. I was surprised to see a target set like that and wondered if someone that came through earlier moved the stake. 

As far as the max yardage goes I noticed a couple targets were flirting with max. I’m not great at judging yardage but the elk seemed far as I shot it for max 35 and was a low 10 about 2” below the 11. Target D 4 the large deer that was uphill with poor footing I also shot for max but broke low and ended up with a 5. I was thinking he might have been closer to 37 but again I broke about 6:00 in the 10. I’m not too worked up about the yardage, I just need to get better at judging… lol

As far as the shooting stakes go I believe it is up to the group to enforce the touch the shooting stake rule. I noticed when our group went through the majority of the stakes had been bent flat to the ground and I also noticed some other shooters rotating the bent stakes to gain better footing. I can say everyone I shot with touched the stake in whatever position it was in when we got to the target. I tend to agree that the stakes should be made of some more substantial material so they can’t be bent to gain a footing advantage. I think the old whisker stakes that looked like a turkey beard they used to use couldn’t really be manipulated either without intentionally pulling them and moving them. 

All in all I had a good time even though I didn’t not shoot to the best of my abilities and I’m looking forward to improving in Nelsonville.


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## BucksNBulls (Jul 3, 2019)

Rule should be inside out. Eliminate the guess work IMO.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

BucksNBulls said:


> Rule should be inside out. Eliminate the guess work IMO.


That does nothing but make the scoring rings smaller. You would still have to check to see if it was touching the inner line for a lower score.


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## BucksNBulls (Jul 3, 2019)

sagecreek said:


> That does nothing but make the scoring rings smaller. You would still have to check to see if it was touching the inner line for a lower score.


Just like shooting for the truck at TAC. It's either in and not touching the line at all or it's not. Simple.


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## Buckdat (May 8, 2019)

Still comes down to somebody's judgment, we all know the edge of the line isn't always as clear as it oughta be, wether it's the inside of the line or outside of it. Instead of thinking it's touching, they'd think it's not touching. 
Until they post a range official at every target there will always be a discrepancy about touching/ not touching.
I'd like to see a yardage list posted online after the completion of the shoot. People that are so inclined could keep notes and check their numbers afterwards. And it may keep the setup crews honest if they gotta post their ranged distances.


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## B3AV3R (Apr 19, 2006)

BucksNBulls said:


> Just like shooting for the truck at TAC. It's either in and not touching the line at all or it's not. Simple.


How is the inside of the line any easier to see than the outside of the line? It's smaller, so if anything, it's harder to see.


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## BucksNBulls (Jul 3, 2019)

B3AV3R said:


> How is the inside of the line any easier to see than the outside of the line? It's smaller, so if anything, it's harder to see.


Because if it's touching the line or pulling the line at all it's OUT.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

BucksNBulls said:


> Because if it's touching the line or pulling the line at all it's OUT.


And now, if it is touching the line it's IN. Still a judgment call either way.


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## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

BucksNBulls said:


> Because if it's touching the line or pulling the line at all it's OUT.


I call B/S! What about spot shooters? It's the higher number if touching line! Same thing. Now shooting the metal animals with hole in is different, it's either in, or smashed!!!


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## BucksNBulls (Jul 3, 2019)

arrowblaster said:


> I call B/S! What about spot shooters? It's the higher number if touching line! Same thing. Now shooting the metal animals with hole in is different, it's either in, or smashed!!!


Good idea, Steel targets it is.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

A couple of the clubs around me do a wire shoot - the scoring ring is made out of wire and the arrow is definitely either IN or Out. SOMETIMES however the arrow hits the wire and bounces off or breaks the wire (physically).


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## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

wa-prez said:


> A couple of the clubs around me do a wire shoot - the scoring ring is made out of wire and the arrow is definitely either IN or Out. SOMETIMES however the arrow hits the wire and bounces off or breaks the wire (physically).


So.......... if it breaks the wire, is it in or out?


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

arrowblaster said:


> So.......... if it breaks the wire, is it in or out?


I suppose it would be in. Hard to break it without touching it!

I think they have a few spare wires hung on the back side of the animal so the group can replace it after that happens.


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## marcomurabia (6 mo ago)

Last year at oipestem there were 2 targets that were obstruct and they were noticed. IMHO Tom does a great job setup the Franklin courses and if there were obstructed shots, he must have just missed it.





Speed Test​


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## Buckdat (May 8, 2019)

Not being a jackass, but obviously they were missed. The courses are supposed to be certified by someone I believe, and really a day or 2 before, someone should walk the courses to be sure no leaves or branches/sticks have found their way in front of the targets


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## KGen (May 31, 2010)

The courses are walked several times especially in the morning to check core damage, bear damage, bent stakes (seams like some people think it's necessary stand on top of the stake) 
24 miles of walking that particular weekend can attest to our walking them, we cut down several trees Fri morning that potentially could have fallen and hurt someone. Just wanted to assure you that these courses are checked regularly.


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## Buckdat (May 8, 2019)

KGen said:


> The courses are walked several times especially in the morning to check core damage, bear damage, bent stakes (seams like some people think it's necessary stand on top of the stake)
> 24 miles of walking that particular weekend can attest to our walking them, we cut down several trees Fri morning that potentially could have fallen and hurt someone. Just wanted to assure you that these courses are checked regularly.


Hey, I don't want to start an argument, and you seem adamant about checking the courses. But, the target that I personally am referring to at Franklin had a 4 or 5 inch tree that obscured 1/3 of the 10 ring when standing so I was touching the stake( as the rule states you are supposed to). That tree did not grow overnight, it did not get blown there by a rogue gust of wind. It was there and the target was placed there behind it and the stakes were placed in a position which caused your line of sight (and arrow path) to be impeded. 
My intent behind starting this thread was to try and bring light to problems and complaints that people have with these shoots and hopefully get them fixed, it was not to point fingers and cast blame so please don't take it as such. But some of them are obviously not looked at by the set up crew with the same eye that the shooters use. Each target should be looked at as though you were going to shoot it and the scoring rings open as per the I.B.O. rules. 
I am truly sorry if you took it as a personal attack, again not my intent.


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

My bone to pick with the IBO happens every year around this time! Well IBO were are the shoot times at????


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## Billy Goat (Jan 6, 2022)

woodsman78 said:


> My bone to pick with the IBO happens every year around this time! Well IBO were are the shoot times at????


Isn't registration going til the 9th? 

Guess you find out Thursday morning....


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

Yes indeed but they have always posted the shoot times regardless of late registration , it just seems like with all of the electronics things could move a little quicker.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

woodsman78 said:


> Yes indeed but they have always posted the shoot times regardless of late registration , it just seems like with all of the electronics things could move a little quicker.


They must have heard you. 

They posted them last night.


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## Bucket (Jan 6, 2006)

Another complaint regarding Worlds... I think they need to peer the top 4 shooters in the running for SOTY.


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