# Indoor word payouts



## bigdogarcher (Jan 29, 2008)

<COPE> said:


> I went to indoor worlds and placed 2nd in the AHC and got a check today from parma for $88.00. I think that $88.00 seems a little low for 2nd place. There were 54 people in the AHC this year. 54 people time $50.00 a person is $2700. Even if they take out $25.00 a person for target fees and IBO fees that would leave $1350 left in the pot. Did they pay out to 20 poeple...Where did it all go?


I agree cope that seems kinda low for second place. Sounds like someone had a nice dinner, on us.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Ok the Indoor World at Cleveland has the same payback system as any of the IBO Triple Crown shoots. Entry is $50- $10 to the pot for shooters + IBO retains $6 + Host club gets $34. If you had 54 shooters you were only shooting for $540. I feel your pain as I have complained for years about IBO's payback. GOOD NEWS........the payback system has now changed effective last weekend in P'cola. Entry is now $37 for all classes and if you want in an optional money pot it will cost you an additional $15. Upside to this is if everyone gets in the cash pot there will be more money but unfortunately that probably will not be the case. I would imagine that a lot of shooters will opt for the $37 and not get in the money pot.


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## <COPE> (Jan 19, 2009)

Bubba Dean said:


> Ok the Indoor World at Cleveland has the same payback system as any of the IBO Triple Crown shoots. Entry is $50- $10 to the pot for shooters + IBO retains $6 + Host club gets $34. If you had 54 shooters you were only shooting for $540. I feel your pain as I have complained for years about IBO's payback. GOOD NEWS........the payback system has now changed effective last weekend in P'cola. Entry is now $37 for all classes and if you want in an optional money pot it will cost you an additional $15. Upside to this is if everyone gets in the cash pot there will be more money but unfortunately that probably will not be the case. I would imagine that a lot of shooters will opt for the $37 and not get in the money pot.


so we pay $50 dollars to shoot and only $10.00 goes back in the pot... that is pathetic


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Cope contrast your payout to the one at the ASA Mississippi Proam. Unlimited class paid $50 entry and had 18 shooters. First place was $270, second $179 & third was $119. I know how much it costs to travel to the ASA shoots(cuz I have done it since 1997) but I think the travel is worth it.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Cope just remember that the IBO defends your bowhunting rights. :teeth: That is one of the answers you will get when you complain about IBO paybacks.


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## <COPE> (Jan 19, 2009)

yeah but the IBO is only getting $6 and parma archery is getting $34


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Exactly what I have complained about for years. The host clubs make a killing. Ya I know it takes a lot of work to set one of these up but most of the time they charge for parking(Gem City donates to Hunt of a Lifetime), vendors are charged for booth space and where does that money go. Then you have the Bowhunter defense ranges and the money from that goes to IBO for the Bowhunter defense fund. That in itself is kinda funny cause the two biggest payout from the defense fund are for printing& mailing plus JR Absher cut. Maybe you should try an ASA sometime. At the end of May we shoot in London Kentucky which isn't a world away from PA. Give it a try you might like it.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Parma is different as a host than those of the NTC. Parma has to rent that space at the XI center which can't be cheap. I will give them a break but the other hosts need to take less of a profit and give more to the shooters.


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## <COPE> (Jan 19, 2009)

i will think about it ....it just makes me mad i can go to a local shoot, pay $30.00 to enter with like 10 people in it and win more than i did at a big IBO shoot


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

The only IBO shoot that interests me anymore is the World. Even then there is not much money you are just shooting for the title. Funny how things have changed......the other night I was going through some old tapes and came across the IBO World 1995. You would not guess how much money the guy who won MBR got.................right at $6,000. Ya that is right $6000. Boy have times changed. I know some of the difference is that in those days there was not any money payback in the amateur classes except at the World so all of the money generated through qualifiers and the Triple Crown went to the World pot.


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## Duckhawk_2008 (Jun 15, 2008)

Man some of you guys kill me with all this *****ing! Aww my check wasnt big enough! 

Like said in an earlier post they do defend your rights to hunt!

Alright, the host club provides the targets, the range and facilities so you tell me how they are making a killing, also all the workers are volunteers! Please by all means if you think that you can do a better job then start you own Archery Organization and I will be the first one to join! 

But until then keep your mouth shut, cash your check and enjoy that there are people and archery clubs willing for you to come out and shoot!


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## Twinsfan (Aug 9, 2007)

Duckhawk_2008 said:


> Man some of you guys kill me with all this *****ing! Aww my check wasnt big enough!
> 
> Like said in an earlier post they do defend your rights to hunt!
> 
> ...


wat is wrong with you?:mg:


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## Duckhawk_2008 (Jun 15, 2008)

And another thing that I will get off my chest for the ones being ignorant! 

First thing if you wanna make any money at archery you got to shoot a class that isn't hunter! 

AHC shoots from the red stake, if you wanna be competitive and make money you need to shoot open and work your way up to Pro! Also where all these archers make their money is with sponsors and Contingency money!


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Host get the targets from McKenzie. I would assume that they do not pay retail for them. Then the following year they sell them at the target auction. I have seen guys pay within $50 of retail for those targets. So the hosts are not taking a bath on the targets. BTW is it written in stone somewhere that the NTC shoots have to be Bedford, Erie and Nelsonville.

As far as defending my bowhunting rights.....I would like to see that in writting. Going from what they published in the 2008 Yearbook(didn't get an 09 yet) ......total donations(in 2007) were $71,000, disbursements were $105,000 and the closing balance was $64,000. Wow they spent more than they took in and still had a positive balance.
There expenses were as follows:
J.R. Absher- Wages/expenses $18,400
Membership dues $4,835
Travel expenes $10,748
Wages-printing-dues-postage $36,382
Computer/programs/updates $3,902
Misc. merchandise $18,857
Booth space/advertising $505
NASP program $9,443
Donations $1,500
BH rendezvous $1,096

These are not number I made up but number they published in their Yearbook. I am by no means an accountant but I don't see where and how my bowhunting rights were defended. What bowhunting right fights have they been actively involved in????? If they are just sending letters to politicians then they are kinda like the chicken in a bacon and egg breakfast. The pig(bacon) was committed and the chicken(egg) participated.


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## psestaffshooter (Feb 9, 2009)

*Ibo*

IBO takes on a new meaning for me....after dealing with the bullcrap at the indoor worlds...and seeing that they paid out 88$ to the second place shooter in the ahc.....Ken Watkins and parma archery must be planning alot more Exotic big game hunts this year too...I met mr watkins and all I heard about was the Big game hunts he goes on....etc etc.... We have our own tournament in vermont,...The VASA ....Vermont Archery Shooters association Tournaments. The cost to shoot the VASA is 50.00 per shooter...the payouts are great....50 shooters in hunter class....shoot for 1000.00 and it is scored by certified scorers as well. There is no way a cheater could cme in and outdo the real shooters here. The host clubs get the 10 $ entry,...VASA gets 20. and the balance goes to the pot...with good place payouts.
I think I am all done with the IBO...Ignorant Blowhard Organization


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## Justin17 (May 4, 2006)

So we gave $71k to have less than $15k actually go back to the sport? Sounds like the worst investment anyone could make.


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## JHolling (Jan 25, 2005)

The IBO is all about the money. I found this out at the Worlds in Anderson. 
Jon


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## -BIS- (Mar 24, 2009)

Well, I too thought there would be a bigger payout than what was paid. I had a good day and placed second in MBO (by the way, GREAT shooting Tim!!!). Now don't get the wrong idea, I had a great time and it was fun seeing guys that I don't get to see that often. But it seems like a national event would pay a little more. Heck, I would have much rather had a trophy or something to hang on the wall than the $$$$. Anyway, they did a good job putting the shoot together and I really enjoyed the company and shooting group. 

:darkbeer::darkbeer:


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## ChadLister (Jan 28, 2009)

I also came in second in ymr 13-14 but my sponsors couldn't pay me because it was not a "major" shoot now I'm sorry but i believe that a "world" shoot counts as a major shoot, Even if not that many people show up as outdoor worlds.


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## psestaffshooter (Feb 9, 2009)

*wt has the IBO come to..*

seems the least they could do is cover your entry fee...your travel costs and your hotel stay if you placed in the top five in the worlds indoors or out. I am so done with this outfit !! Later all.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

psestaffshooter said:


> seems the least they could do is cover your entry fee...your travel costs and your hotel stay if you placed in the top five in the worlds indoors or out. I am so done with this outfit !! Later all.


So does that mean that PSE staff shooters don't want to attend IBO shoots?

That would be disappointing for PSE.


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## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

I remember how I used to dream (as a child)..."I'm not wasting my time going to college and developing a career. Nope, I'm gonna shoot AHC in the IBO....That's where the smart money is!"


Are you kidding me! Go fling arrows, have fun, promote the sport that you obviously love, be damn proud of such accomplishments, and stop crying!

This thread is much more disturbing than anything the IBO has done!

In 1991 I placed 6th among 374 cars at the Craftsman ET Bracket Finals at Indianapolis Raceway Park. I personally put Jeg Coughlin on the trailer that day. Cost me over $2000 to race that weekend when I dropped a valve in the water box! I won $75 for all my trouble! So, does that mean that the NHRA sucks and I should bash them at every chance! No, racing was a hobby (much like archery) if you want to make money turn down the shoots and accept the overtime! That is why you have a career; to make money. There is no such money in your hobby! There is certainly no such money in AHC!


God, this erks me! :darkbeer:


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## ruttinbuck (Mar 4, 2004)

-BIS- said:


> Well, I too thought there would be a bigger payout than what was paid. I had a good day and placed second in MBO (by the way, GREAT shooting Tim!!!). Now don't get the wrong idea, I had a great time and it was fun seeing guys that I don't get to see that often. But it seems like a national event would pay a little more. Heck, I would have much rather had a trophy or something to hang on the wall than the $$$$. Anyway, they did a good job putting the shoot together and I really enjoyed the company and shooting group.
> 
> :darkbeer::darkbeer:


Good shooting!


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## Justin17 (May 4, 2006)

archerm3 said:


> So does that mean that PSE staff shooters don't want to attend IBO shoots?
> 
> That would be disappointing for PSE.


They don't want to attend the indoor worlds, and it's not just any PSE shooters. There were only 4 PMR shooters this year. It doesn't count for SOY, so I don't think the manufacturers consider it a major tournament which means no contingency money. The pros can't break even by winning this tournament without contingency money.


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## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

*Usba*

Check out ASA and USBA both pay better.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

Justin17 said:


> They don't want to attend the indoor worlds, and it's not just any PSE shooters. There were only 4 PMR shooters this year. It doesn't count for SOY, so I don't think the manufacturers consider it a major tournament which means no contingency money. The pros can't break even by winning this tournament without contingency money.


Didn't say anything about indoor worlds only, it was a blanket statement about all IBO's.



> I am so done with this outfit


from the "fixing the HC" thread


> i am finished with this discussion...and the IBO


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

This sure is entertaining.

One thread floating around has the novice HC guys complaining about not having a chance to place due to the steep competition. They are told by the top shooters to stop whining, man up and practice more or go someplace else.

Now we've got top shooters whining about not getting paid enough from the money that the novice shooters are "donating" to shoot. They are telling them to go shoot somewhere else if they don't like the rules, yet at the same time they want their money to go into their pots

This sport is a hobby, pure and simple. Either enjoy it for what it is, or take up golf and see if it pays your green fees, travel expenses and equipment expenses. I don't see Nike and Buick lining up to sponsor archery.


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## bigdogarcher (Jan 29, 2008)

Duckhawk_2008 said:


> And another thing that I will get off my chest for the ones being ignorant!
> 
> First thing if you wanna make any money at archery you got to shoot a class that isn't hunter!
> 
> AHC shoots from the red stake, if you wanna be competitive and make money you need to shoot open and work your way up to Pro! Also where all these archers make their money is with sponsors and Contingency money!


Hey, a friend of mine took 2nd place in MBO last year in Cleveland and he got $101. The payout sucks there too. I wouldn't say that to get more money, get out of the HC's.


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

-BIS- said:


> Well, I too thought there would be a bigger payout than what was paid. I had a good day and placed second in MBO (by the way, GREAT shooting Tim!!!). Now don't get the wrong idea, I had a great time and it was fun seeing guys that I don't get to see that often. But it seems like a national event would pay a little more. Heck, I would have much rather had a trophy or something to hang on the wall than the $$$$. Anyway, they did a good job putting the shoot together and I really enjoyed the company and shooting group.
> 
> :darkbeer::darkbeer:


great shooting jason, had a great time for my first worlds. is this how it normally goes after a big shoot. respected guys shoot well and place then guys like psestaffshooter in other threads call you and the others that place well a straight up cheater. my guess is that pse picked ..use your own word.


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## Brad HT (Dec 9, 2006)

Apparently, I am the only one that doesnt give a rip about payouts, and how much the host club keeps. 

I guess I am in the minority of people who just plain enjoy going to a shoot and having a good time.... 

huh.. thats too bad

B~


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## ruttinbuck (Mar 4, 2004)

flintcreek6412 said:


> This sure is entertaining.
> 
> One thread floating around has the novice HC guys complaining about not having a chance to place due to the steep competition. They are told by the top shooters to stop whining, man up and practice more or go someplace else.
> 
> ...


GREAT POST :thumbs_up


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## TRIPLETT (Jan 21, 2004)

*I agree!*

BRAD HT
Best thing said i,ve read yet! I wish all the money would be paid
at the worlds only. Give awards for all the other shoots.
Triplett


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

psestaffshooter said:


> IBO takes on a new meaning for me....after dealing with the bullcrap at the indoor worlds...and seeing that they paid out 88$ to the second place shooter in the ahc.....Ken Watkins and parma archery must be planning alot more Exotic big game hunts this year too...I met mr watkins and all I heard about was the Big game hunts he goes on....etc etc.... We have our own tournament in vermont,...The VASA ....Vermont Archery Shooters association Tournaments. The cost to shoot the VASA is 50.00 per shooter...the payouts are great....50 shooters in hunter class....shoot for 1000.00 and it is scored by certified scorers as well. There is no way a cheater could cme in and outdo the real shooters here. The host clubs get the 10 $ entry,...VASA gets 20. and the balance goes to the pot...with good place payouts.
> I think I am all done with the IBO...Ignorant Blowhard Organization



Wow... when is this shoot? Can't believe I have never heard of this one in my home state. Where do you find a link to the list of shoot dates?


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## USCG Barebow (Feb 17, 2004)

*Ibo*

I shoot in the MCU class (Barebow). I am definetly not in it for the money. I was suprised I even got any money ($30) for the Indoors IBO. I thought we were just getting a plaque or something. No organization is perfect. If you want to win money, you need to be in the top class. You also need to be on a Pro Staff that will pay you contingency money. If you are not a pro or semi-pro, you get what you get with regards to payouts. I get more out of shooting with new people and making new friends. Just my opinion(s).
Alan


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

I took 2nd place in semi pro a few years ago and got a check for $1,000.00:mg: not sure if things changed since then or it was just because of the semi pro class.


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## V.A.S.A (Mar 31, 2009)

Grnmtn said:


> Wow... when is this shoot? Can't believe I have never heard of this one in my home state. Where do you find a link to the list of shoot dates?




I would be happy to send you a packet for our Tournament info. Thanks


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## V.A.S.A (Mar 31, 2009)

*PSE staff shooter*



milkman38 said:


> great shooting jason, had a great time for my first worlds. is this how it normally goes after a big shoot. respected guys shoot well and place then guys like psestaffshooter in other threads call you and the others that place well a straight up cheater. my guess is that pse picked ..use your own word.



I have read all of his posts...he made sure to refer to the cheating end as alleged. Psestaffshooter is a good guy...and he is just put off right now with all of the controversy he has heard and seen in the last few weeks with this indoor worlds shoot. I hope he will come back to shoot in more IBo competitions....he definitely did not call anyone a cheater....he has just stated that if anyone did...or any pro's shot in other classes to shut out the competition..that he was dissapointed in that. Alot of people say alot of things...usually they are negative...but i wish that we could all..as archers...make the archery community more tightly knit. Thanks and have agreat season everyone !!! shoot em straight down the middle and keep your feathers dry !!!!


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## Charcuterie (Feb 28, 2009)

Duckhawk_2008 said:


> Man some of you guys kill me with all this *****ing! Aww my check wasnt big enough!
> 
> Alright, the host club provides the targets, the range and facilities so you tell me how they are making a killing, also all the workers are volunteers! Please by all means if you think that you can do a better job then start you own Archery Organization and I will be the first one to join!
> 
> But until then keep your mouth shut, cash your check and enjoy that there are people and archery clubs willing for you to come out and shoot!


Thank you, well said. I went to an indoor shoot 3 years ago that a local club sponsored and the 80 brand new targets they purchased cost $20,000.

Be glad you got anything at all and just shoot for fun.


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## x-finder (Apr 1, 2006)

maineyotekiller said:


> I remember how I used to dream (as a child)..."I'm not wasting my time going to college and developing a career. Nope, I'm gonna shoot AHC in the IBO....That's where the smart money is!"
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me! Go fling arrows, have fun, promote the sport that you obviously love, be damn proud of such accomplishments, and stop crying!
> ...


Great post,cracks me up. No one is going to get rich shooting AHC. Go shoot against hopkins,morgan,and christenberry if you want to PLAY you gots to PAY.


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## x-finder (Apr 1, 2006)

I got $135 for 5th in MBO,better than a plaque. I was going to shoot anyway weather it was for money or nothing. If you think you are going to get rich shooting a bow,better get used to not making much at it. Have fun and meet some new hunting partners and new people. Very few archers make enough to pay for anything more than going to the next shoot. Good advice from someone who has done it for 20 plus yrs.:smile:


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

Duckhawk_2008 said:


> And another thing that I will get off my chest for the ones being ignorant!
> 
> First thing if you wanna make any money at archery you got to shoot a class that isn't hunter!
> 
> AHC shoots from the red stake, if you wanna be competitive and make money you need to shoot open and work your way up to Pro! Also where all these archers make their money is with sponsors and Contingency money!



Yep, the big payouts in the pro division is the reason so many of them showed up at Pensacola (i think there were 7 and none I've heard of). 

IMOH, I think the IBO ought to give up on the south, of the very few who showed up in pensacola this year, the majority were from Northern states. Why dont they pick a location closer to pa, oh, in, mi where the IBO shooters are from?


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## <COPE> (Jan 19, 2009)

maineyotekiller said:


> I remember how I used to dream (as a child)..."I'm not wasting my time going to college and developing a career. Nope, I'm gonna shoot AHC in the IBO....That's where the smart money is!"
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me! Go fling arrows, have fun, promote the sport that you obviously love, be damn proud of such accomplishments, and stop crying!
> ...


First of all i never said anything about getting rich fast shooting ameture level IBO shoot.It just doesnt seem right to me that you pay $50 dollars to shoot and only $10 of that goes back in the pot. If they didnt have a cash pot how many of you would honestly pay $40 to shoot a 40 target 3D course.


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## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

I think I did last year to shoot the Ohio State Qualifier. If it's $40 this year, I'll pay again.

I can drive to work for less than $5, not have quite as much fun but, be guarenteed a $250 payout! Now, that's where the smart money is!


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## x-finder (Apr 1, 2006)

maineyotekiller said:


> I think I did last year to shoot the Ohio State Qualifier. If it's $40 this year, I'll pay again.
> 
> I can drive to work for less than $5, not have quite as much fun but, be guarenteed a $250 payout! Now, that's where the smart money is!


yea,you do not even have to practice.


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## jtd_75 (Jan 7, 2009)

unless he is a doctor or lawyer, cause all they do is practice


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

ChadLister said:


> I also came in second in ymr 13-14 but my sponsors couldn't pay me because it was not a "major" shoot now I'm sorry but i believe that a "world" shoot counts as a major shoot, Even if not that many people show up as outdoor worlds.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but Virgie said and I quote "When 2 shooters tie with the same score and same X count. They do the tie breaker by going to who dropped the first shot. You dropped the first shot meaning you will be given the 3rd place trophy. An thats a confirmed fact, Just got off the phone with the I.B.O. board to confirm it. So congratulations on 3rd place.


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## maineyotekiller (Oct 1, 2005)

x-finder said:


> yea,you do not even have to practice.




I knew you'd come around!


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

I got 6th in SPM last year..... and didn't get anything.


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## bigdogarcher (Jan 29, 2008)

jwolfe78 said:


> I got 6th in SPM last year..... and didn't get anything.


And your entry fee, I bet, was triple digits.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

ruttinbuck said:


> GREAT POST :thumbs_up


excellent post......Spot Freakn On!!!!!


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## 1BadBulldog (Jul 23, 2007)

hey us southern boys like to shoot ibo too no need to take them up north but maybe get more involved in the southerns no comparations on the vedors and such as the ASA,s in the south


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

I think what keeps everybody coming back to the IBO is that they have that title----------WORLD CHAMPION----

Every body wants to be the HC,MBO.MBR, Pro & etc -- WORLD CHAMPION:----------------lol3:------------------


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## 1BadBulldog (Jul 23, 2007)

i run in to this problem talking to my friends from the ASA bout coming and shooting with me i can not make any of the ASA events do to work but can make all the IBO's so i have made the past 2 and looking at making a 3rd but gas $70, entry fee $52, hotel $70, eats $40 equals $232 PAYOUT $50-$100 not worth it is what they will all tell me dont get me wrong it is a great time but coming from out of state to these shoots just aint adding up way to much money going in and not enough coming back to the shooter just my 2 cents


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

The INDOOR WORLD is not a world championship shoot! Its just named the indoor worlds. I ask the IBO a question about how a HC shooter could win the indoor worlds and still continue to compete in HC the next year? I thought this was a clear violation of the rules saying that if you win a world championship you had to move out. I was told that the indoor world and the world championship are not the same and the indoor world is not a world championship.
I agree that the host clubs seem to get a bunch of cash from the shooters,and I always thought it was a little strange that the IBO only got about 6 bucks. I wondered why the shoots were always at the same clubs, and never went up for bid like the world championship?
Then I found that a lot of the people who ran the clubs also ran the IBO and that answered my question.
Everyone has and opinion about the IBO and the shoots. They also have and opinion about the way they get treated by the clubs and by the white haired guy that rides around on the 4 wheeler.
My suggestion is form your own opinion and then make up your mind if you want to continue to got to these shoots. If you want to go, then go and have a good time. But dont come back and complain. Thats kinda like hitting yourself with a hammer and then getting mad at the hammer.


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## crowny (Feb 13, 2006)

*what a joke!!!*

Ibo wants people to travel 100s of miles to a shoot,pay for gas,food and a room to stay in,and in return the clubs only give you 88.00 for 2ND place ! No wonder there shooting numbers are down.I shoot in the open class and the money isnt much better there.Yea maybe you wont make a living in AHC,but if they want the shooting numbers to come back up,IBO needs to step in and tell the club what percentage of the money needs to go back to the shooter.After all its IBOs rep on the line,not the club that hosts the shoot,PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!


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## x-finder (Apr 1, 2006)

Years ago when the shoots had 2000 shooters at them all you got was a trophy or a plaque,unless you shot pro.The crowds started to decline when money got involved in amature classes.


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

I think they should just go back to giving out plaques. That would stop all the crying about the payout being too low! Amature classes are that amature, you're not there to make money. If that is your intent, pony up the cash and shoot pro. ASA is not the IBO. They are different in their workings and set up. Apples and oranges other then they shoot foam targets with a bow. Pay outs for IBO is based on a percentage of the pool that is formed for each class paid to the top ten or top 10% depending on the number of shooters registered. For example you have 40 shooters the payback is only going to the top 4 shooters, if there is a tie, that place is split. So most of the time the payout is to only 10 top scores and you need 100 shooters for that in the Amature classes that are money award classes.


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## Fire Archer (Jul 23, 2008)

*IBO payouts*

I posted a thread on IBO website about the payouts but as usual have got no response from any IBO personnel. I think that they could pay at least a comparable amount to the ASA. They need to give at least a third of the entry fees back to the shooters, they can keep a third, and let the clubs keep a third. This would at least pay part of your expenses for the shoots. With the money they collect from entry fees and membership fees, someone is keeping some extra cash somewhere along the line. Without the members the IBO is nothing. Even the pros don't necessarily make any money at IBO shoots.


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

bigdogarcher said:


> And your entry fee, I bet, was triple digits.




Did you forget to type another sentence............ I was just wondering which point you were trying to make?


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## BruceZ (Jan 4, 2007)

I think that is why I like the HC, those guys just love to shoot for the fun of it. If I was out to make money I would find a weekend job and could make alot more money that way.


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## Mark Hedges (Dec 18, 2008)

To me there are really two issues here -

First, $50 is damn expensive to shoot 40 targets, no matter how you look at it. They better provide a superior experience when almost every weekend I could drive 2 hrs or less and shoot 30-40 targets for $12.

I also think that the idea of a money payout for amateur classes is troublesome. Basically what you have is a bunch of people putting up money when they know they have no chance of winning. Only a relatively small percentage of the shooters are going to be competitive to place. In my mind this is a big turn-off for the casual shooter.

Mark


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

psestaffshooter said:


> IBO takes on a new meaning for me....after dealing with the bullcrap at the indoor worlds...and seeing that they paid out 88$ to the second place shooter in the ahc.....Ken Watkins and parma archery must be planning alot more Exotic big game hunts this year too...I met mr watkins and all I heard about was the Big game hunts he goes on....etc etc.... We have our own tournament in vermont,...The VASA ....Vermont Archery Shooters association Tournaments. The cost to shoot the VASA is 50.00 per shooter...the payouts are great....50 shooters in hunter class....shoot for 1000.00 and it is scored by certified scorers as well. There is no way a cheater could cme in and outdo the real shooters here. The host clubs get the 10 $ entry,...VASA gets 20. and the balance goes to the pot...with good place payouts.
> I think I am all done with the IBO...Ignorant Blowhard Organization


Really sounds like you guys In Vermont are doing things the right way and probley getting alot more shooters to come ! Thats awsome! I can't get them in Maine to Do anything for a Money pay out or even try and make things more appealing all they do is complain that there loosing shooters year after year and have to shut down the clubs! They refuse to even try to do something like you guys are doing


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

V.A.S.A said:


> I would be happy to send you a packet for our Tournament info. Thanks


Pm sent for some Information!


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## viperarcher (Jul 6, 2007)

Fire Archer said:


> I posted a thread on IBO website about the payouts but as usual have got no response from any IBO personnel. I think that they could pay at least a comparable amount to the ASA. They need to give at least a third of the entry fees back to the shooters, they can keep a third, and let the clubs keep a third. This would at least pay part of your expenses for the shoots. With the money they collect from entry fees and membership fees, someone is keeping some extra cash somewhere along the line. Without the members the IBO is nothing. Even the pros don't necessarily make any money at IBO shoots.


I have to say I agree with this!


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## V.A.S.A (Mar 31, 2009)

*Thank you for your interest.*

Greetings.. I am the president of VASA. We are working out the details to get the VASA tournaments initiated this season. We already have several archery clubs that are very willing and eager to participate with our tournaments. Anyone that is interested should pm me and I will get back to you to list the details. Basically it will be NFAA and IBO rules combined...for styles and classes. The Money will be in all classes for our tournaments.. The tourney's will be POINTS based as well...day one is the qualifier for the day two shoot at each tournament...even if you are not in the top shooters this time...you can still shoot next time and try to best the leaders....earn points by placing and move up the ranks. We will have a climactic full 3 day finale with the winners in their classes taking the title of Northeastern regional world champion. And of course the twelve tier trophy and the cash.


all scoring on the day two shooters will be kept by certified scorers. As to dissuade anyone from considering being dishonest. We want the top shooters in the top spots....not the top pencils. Please pass this info on to as many shooters as possible and we will send out info to selected individuals to distribute at their home clubs etc. Thank you for your interest and lets get the life back into our favorite sport.


Thanks.:teeth:


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## V.A.S.A (Mar 31, 2009)

*Join VASA soon*

Soon this season we will be offering memberships for the VASA tournament shoots. WE will be shooting from VT to NJ in pursuit of the coveted Northeastern Regional World champion in each class available in our tournaments. 


Here is one of our logos as well.


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## bigdogarcher (Jan 29, 2008)

crowny said:


> Ibo wants people to travel 100s of miles to a shoot,pay for gas,food and a room to stay in,and in return the clubs only give you 88.00 for 2ND place ! No wonder there shooting numbers are down.I shoot in the open class and the money isnt much better there.Yea maybe you wont make a living in AHC,but if they want the shooting numbers to come back up,IBO needs to step in and tell the club what percentage of the money needs to go back to the shooter.After all its IBOs rep on the line,not the club that hosts the shoot,PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!


Great point. I've heard from many people that that's why they don't travel too indoor worlds anymore.


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## bigdogarcher (Jan 29, 2008)

jwolfe78 said:


> Did you forget to type another sentence............ I was just wondering which point you were trying to make?


My point was. he Probably paid $150 to shoot and didn't get anything in return.


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

*Winner*



x-finder said:


> Years ago when the shoots had 2000 shooters at them all you got was a trophy or a plaque,unless you shot pro.The crowds started to decline when money got involved in amature classes.


Winner,Winner Chicken Dinner!!!!!​


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

bigdogarcher said:


> My point was. he Probably paid $150 to shoot and didn't get anything in return.


Yep... zilch.. nada........ wondering where it went tooo..........


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## ruger10x (Feb 1, 2006)

I have read many great posts on both sides of this issue.

I go to I.B.O shoots to be around folks who enjoy the same sport 
that I love.
I like the competitive aspect ,but the payback does suck.
The important thing is, when you are attending one ,or any
archery event,you are promoting the sport.To me that is the
most important thing you can do as an archer.

Like it or not, the I.B.O does promote archery.
If you have been shooting the I.B.O for any 
amount of time,you should know better than to
expect a high payout in any of the amature classes.
If you dispute their policies on payback,grow some
balls and call the I.B.O office and complain,or post
your complaints on their forum.

My point is: dont expect something that is not promised.
And think of promoting the sport above all.


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## baylward (Aug 18, 2003)

Fire Archer said:


> I posted a thread on IBO website about the payouts but as usual have got no response from any IBO personnel. I think that they could pay at least a comparable amount to the ASA. They need to give at least a third of the entry fees back to the shooters, they can keep a third, and let the clubs keep a third. This would at least pay part of your expenses for the shoots. With the money they collect from entry fees and membership fees, someone is keeping some extra cash somewhere along the line. Without the members the IBO is nothing. Even the pros don't necessarily make any money at IBO shoots.


the Ibo is a non-profit org. the ASA is there to make money.. I have see on hear people talking avout how the club make money on the target sales that money goes to the boe hunter defense fund.


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## watermedic23 (Aug 23, 2006)

You just shot yourself in the foot with that statement. :tomato: If the IBO is truly nonprofit, the payout should be higher than ASA who is for profit. 

The reality is that you will win more in ASA in one shoot than you will in IBO for the season.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Baylward if you look at the Bowhunter Defense donations listed in the Yearbook the only target sells that went to Bowhunter Defense fund were from the World.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

There is a post that suggests that numbers are dropping in the IBO because of the money in amateur classes. This year with IBO dropping the entry to $37 and having the optional cash pot it will be interesting to see if the numbers come up.


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## Uncle Paul (Feb 7, 2006)

Someone here said that the IBO wants us to travel hundreds of miles to shoot our bows. You need to remember that we the Hunters are the ones that started the IBO, because we, wanted to travel to shoots across the country and compete against the best archers and hunters for bragging rights as to who was the best. You got a trophy for being the best and the right to say that you beat everyone in your class from all over the country. Then we decided that since the Manufacture division which is now called PRO was getting some money we wanted that too. There was a survey taken and was decided that $10.00 from each entry in your class went to a pay back. Sure you can stay home and only pay $12.00 and shoot local shoots but then your only shooting against local shooters. I travel to the Triple Crown Shoots to compete against the best archers in the country and if I shoot well enough I can get a little of my expenses back and say I beat the best. I shoot both IBO and ASA I like both because again your shooting against the best. If some of you spent as much energy promoting the sport as you do running it down maybe we would have more members.


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## x-finder (Apr 1, 2006)

Maybe they should just quit having shoots,that would solve the problem about *****ing about them. People can stay home and be the champ of the backyard.:mg:


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## baylward (Aug 18, 2003)

watermedic23 said:


> You just shot yourself in the foot with that statement. :tomato: If the IBO is truly nonprofit, the payout should be higher than ASA who is for profit.
> 
> The reality is that you will win more in ASA in one shoot than you will in IBO for the season.


i know some of the best archers in the country and most of then have not made a living shooting a bow. The pay out is plus but the belt bulkle is what I really want the money will be gone but I will still have the buckle.


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## s_house (Mar 12, 2006)

Bubba Dean said:


> Ok the Indoor World at Cleveland has the same payback system as any of the IBO Triple Crown shoots. Entry is $50- $10 to the pot for shooters + IBO retains $6 + Host club gets $34.


According to my triple crown sheet...the triple crown payback is 40% not 20%


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## Fire Archer (Jul 23, 2008)

baylward said:


> the Ibo is a non-profit org. the ASA is there to make money.. I have see on hear people talking avout how the club make money on the target sales that money goes to the boe hunter defense fund.


I understand that but it seems like it is the other way around. ASA has a pretty good payout. I seen where someone on here shot ASA last year in the HC and won 400+ dollars. People in the MBO in the IBO don't make that at a national shoot. Last year at Nelsonville in the MBO my buddy got 2nd and another buddy got 9th and there was like a $20 difference from 2nd to 
9th. First place won $10 more than 2nd which was only $138. The money is definitely going somewhere and not where it should be going.


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## hoffmank (Feb 25, 2007)

I am not really sure what the IBO does to help my bow hunting rights but I am sure they do. I know it's alot of work setting up a shoot and the clubs should get enough money to make it worth their while. I know that in these economic times it is tough to tell people that are paying a good chunk of money AND SUPPORTING THE IBO that if you have a good weekend of shooting and place well that (We thank you for shooting and here is a ten dollar thophy.) Oh ya bye the way hope you spend some more of your hard earned money in a month and come see us again. Does that sound funny to anyone else. I am not one of these people that think anyone should go to a shoot to get payed. But if you should be blessed enough to shot well one weekend and place well why shouldn'd you get back what you deserve. Then the Question is what does one deserve if they win a shoot of place well at one? I would think that in my opinion it should be close to what other Organizations of the same calaber are paying. I shoot to have fun just like the rest of the shooters that go to these events. I have won an ASA shoot and was given $417.00 for my efforts that weekend. Let me tell you something it is a great feeling to get back that kind of THANK YOU FOR COMMING. It is a feeling that everyone should get to enjoy if that have that great weekend of shooting. 

I live in Ohio so Iam in the middle of IBO country and will shoot the IBO shoots. I just think the ASA does a better job of marketing themselves. For example and the ASA shoots are sponsered by big names. Delta Pro Am, Easton Pro Am, Hoyt Pro Am, and so on and so on. That is where the ASA gets it money to opperate. The money they bring in from the shooters is given back to the shooters because they did there work on the front end buy getting sponsership. 

I work for a living so I am not going to any bow shoot to put food on the table. I am no pro so I am not looking for the big money nor will I ever be one. I've read some post about if you want payed step up and shoot pro well let me tell you this, without the 99% of shooters their would be no pros. So I say if your willing to pay the money it takes to go to these shoots YOU HAVE STEPED UP PLEANTY AND SHOULD GET YOURS IF YOU DO WELL ONE WEEKEND!!!!!


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## Fire Archer (Jul 23, 2008)

hoffmank said:


> I am not really sure what the IBO does to help my bow hunting rights but I am sure they do. I know it's alot of work setting up a shoot and the clubs should get enough money to make it worth their while. I know that in these economic times it is tough to tell people that are paying a good chunk of money AND SUPPORTING THE IBO that if you have a good weekend of shooting and place well that (We thank you for shooting and here is a ten dollar thophy.) Oh ya bye the way hope you spend some more of your hard earned money in a month and come see us again. Does that sound funny to anyone else. I am not one of these people that think anyone should go to a shoot to get payed. But if you should be blessed enough to shot well one weekend and place well why shouldn'd you get back what you deserve. Then the Question is what does one deserve if they win a shoot of place well at one? I would think that in my opinion it should be close to what other Organizations of the same calaber are paying. I shoot to have fun just like the rest of the shooters that go to these events. I have won an ASA shoot and was given $417.00 for my efforts that weekend. Let me tell you something it is a great feeling to get back that kind of THANK YOU FOR COMMING. It is a feeling that everyone should get to enjoy if that have that great weekend of shooting.
> 
> I live in Ohio so Iam in the middle of IBO country and will shoot the IBO shoots. I just think the ASA does a better job of marketing themselves. For example and the ASA shoots are sponsered by big names. Delta Pro Am, Easton Pro Am, Hoyt Pro Am, and so on and so on. That is where the ASA gets it money to opperate. The money they bring in from the shooters is given back to the shooters because they did there work on the front end buy getting sponsership.
> 
> I work for a living so I am not going to any bow shoot to put food on the table. I am no pro so I am not looking for the big money nor will I ever be one. I've read some post about if you want payed step up and shoot pro well let me tell you this, without the 99% of shooters their would be no pros. So I say if your willing to pay the money it takes to go to these shoots YOU HAVE STEPED UP PLEANTY AND SHOULD GET YOURS IF YOU DO WELL ONE WEEKEND!!!!!


I agree with you 100%. It is not that I feel I can make a living shooting a bow, I work also, but it is that the IBO is taking in a lot of money and not giving back. The IBO is a non-profit organization and the ASA is for profit, but pays a lot of money back which should be the opposite. Maybe the IBO needs to try to get someone to sponsor some of the shoots instead of just Mckenzie and Limbsaver. Maybe the IBO is non-profit but the president is for profit. He has to pay for those big expensive hunting trips somehow. Alot of people on here don't care about money because they have no chance of winning it.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

Fire Archer said:


> I agree with you 100%. It is not that I feel I can make a living shooting a bow, I work also, but it is that the IBO is taking in a lot of money and not giving back. The IBO is a non-profit organization and the ASA is for profit, but pays a lot of money back which should be the opposite. Maybe the IBO needs to try to get someone to sponsor some of the shoots instead of just Mckenzie and Limbsaver. *Maybe the IBO is non-profit but the president is for profit. He has to pay for those big expensive hunting trips somehow.* Alot of people on here don't care about money because they have no chance of winning it.


True statement right there.


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## emt964 (Jul 23, 2009)

it must be nice to be able to complain about such things..... me i just want to be able to go. i found this thread looking for advice on how get a sponsership... i just wanna go shoot and have a good time competeing in a sport that i love and be backed by products and compaines tht i trust in. but when i read this well its just sad that people dont care enough about the sport to not worry bout payouts.... try to remember that you are lucky to be able to go and some of us may never get the chance to to experiance such things as a world shoot.... just food for thought the next you go compete and not get the payout you "deserve"


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

emt964 said:


> it must be nice to be able to complain about such things..... me i just want to be able to go. i found this thread looking for advice on how get a sponsership... i just wanna go shoot and have a good time competeing in a sport that i love and be backed by products and compaines tht i trust in. but when i read this well its just sad that people dont care enough about the sport to not worry bout payouts.... try to remember that you are lucky to be able to go and some of us may never get the chance to to experiance such things as a world shoot.... just food for thought the next you go compete and not get the payout you "deserve"


Please don't be too disappointed about your lack of finding a sponsor with the archery companies. If you get on a staff the most you'll be get as far as sponsorship is discounts off their products. When you do get to go to something like indoor worlds (anyone can attend btw) you can see the entry fees and then what the actual payout ends up it won't take you long to be disappointed with a payout if you end up shooting well. The reason alot of people go to the bigger events is to compete against the best shooters in the nation and if your in a class that has payouts you expect to be compensated for your efforts. I know this fellow thatr started this thread he's a very nice kid and a hell of a great archer. He's looking for a fair shake as you too are looking for money in a different way. Don't judge until you actually see the whole picture on the payouts in the IBO. I wish you luck.


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## knotdodger (Oct 2, 2005)

Quick question about indoor Worlds. Do you get a trophy??
Just wondering , because I have never been to a large IBO
event.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

knotdodger said:


> Quick question about indoor Worlds. Do you get a trophy??
> Just wondering , because I have never been to a large IBO
> event.


Depends on what class you shoot in. Some are Trophy only classes others will have a trophy and money. Don't worry about getting rich even if you win every event you'll make more money working part time at Walmart..LOL


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

emt964 said:


> it must be nice to be able to complain about such things..... me i just want to be able to go. i found this thread looking for advice on how get a sponsership... i just wanna go shoot and have a good time competeing in a sport that i love and be backed by products and compaines tht i trust in. but when i read this well its just sad that people dont care enough about the sport to not worry bout payouts.... try to remember that you are lucky to be able to go and some of us may never get the chance to to experiance such things as a world shoot.... just food for thought the next you go compete and not get the payout you "deserve"


You are wanting and asking for money. Have you 'earned' it? 
You would be much better off if instead of looking for sponsors you put your efforts into employment where you would earn enough to pay for your archery hobby. Any entry fee money not paid to the shooters is going into someone's pocket. Another poster mentioned how much more the ASA pays than the IBO and it's more than a little bit. There were 77 shooters in the Hunter class at the ASA shoot in London, KY this year. I placed 7th and won $151. My expenses were much more than $151. The only way you'll get sponsors is if you 'deserve' to be sponsored. By the way, all these sponsored shooters you hear about aren't all that 'sponsored'. Most get little more than discounts and $0 for travel or entry fees. Many actually pay for the shirts that says they're "sponsored" with maybe a %15 discount.


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