# Why ask for help?



## scottranderson (Aug 9, 2009)

I think you handled it best you could. With that you did a good job.


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

You cracked his defiance and got him to listen.... well done. I coach in the youth system of a MLS team and live that story. Real conversations from last season alone:

kid: "My mom (who never played) says I don't need all that fancy stuff and I should just kick it."
response: "You certainly can just kick it, but keep in mind, if that's all you do you will be sitting on the bench with me while the other kids with the fancy moves are playing. I feel its that important and I make the decisions out here. play or sit, it is your choice. what do you want to do?"

kid: "I am a great player and don't need to pay attention"
response: "I am not sure who told you that you are a great player, but I suppose you could be if you worked at it. Now why don't you just take your ball and sit right over there and watch while these kids learn to become great players. When you are ready to listen, I may let you play with us, maybe not. Do you want to sit by yourself, or listen and learn something?"

my experience is that young kids seek and respond to acceptance and praise, and its best to have a group. if one gets defiant, ignore them and concentrate with positive reinforcement on the kids who are doing it right. the threat of "not playing with us" has more power than anything I have found and infinitely better than suicides, laps, sit-ups, jacks, and other physical "punishment." the hardest part is maintaining composure when they aggravate the he77 out of me, and constantly reminding myself they are just kids who are here for fun and its my job to create a fun environment while following an age-appropriate curriculum.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Marcie, 
Some of us are just too @#$%$ hardheaded for our own good. I've fought this in myself all my life. It can be a good thing in certain situations, but not when we are being coached. Even when we are trying to do it like the coach says, it looks to the coach like we are fighting it. It's certainly not the coaches fault, it's just a natural streak of stubborness that we can't help.

You probably handled that situation as well as you could without resorting to a 2 x 4. 

Us hardheaded sorts tend to learn things the hard way. You can show us the correct and easy way to do something, but we've got to try & fail with a dozen wrong ways before we'll accept your way. We can be your most successful students if you accept what we are and don't put up with any BS from us, but we will always be trying something different. Explanation of the principles involved in what you are teaching sometimes help.

You got through to that kid more than it appeared. He's going to go home and figure out for himself if you or the scout leader made more sense. After he slaps his arm a few times, he will likely decide that you are right. However, if he has a high level of respect for his scout leader, he may decide to be loyal and take the pain. (we're stubborn about loyalty too) At that point, all you can do is give him the right information and let him do what he will. If he stays with archery, he will eventually realize that you were right.

Stubborn hardheads are a frustrating type of student for a coach or any teacher. Many of us will fail, not because you are a bad coach, but because we can't help it. But a few of us will be your stars. Don't give up on us. But don't let us drive you crazy either.

Allen


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## SpiritArcher (Aug 18, 2011)

I completely hear where you're coming from Marcy. I coach kids in a structured club-based program and I constantly see new kids come in with brand new bows that have draw weights far too heavy for them to shoot properly or safely. More often than not, I will grab the allan wrench and crank the bow down only to have Dad act like a complete turd and yell at me for it. After explaining that the child wont learn proper shooting form and could obviously injure themselves and they won't want to shoot anymore. After some back forth, the Dad finally says OK, "you're right" and then it ends there...so I think. The next week junior comes in and the bow is cranked back up to the initial draw weight. I ended up getting a little loud with one parent over this. However, as a coach, the first rule is "do know harm" and its my job advocate in these cases on the part of the archer if there is potential risk of harm.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Thanks all.
I.like the "sit it out" option because if I have 10 other kids ready to learn, i dont want to waste too much time arguing with one.
Also, thanks for.openimg my eyes to the mindset of the "stubborn personality" that will.help a lot.


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

For a group... one of the most important things is to grab control immediately and let them know you are not there to jack around. Once the pecking order is established, you can back off but its hard to get control after by introducing yourself as their friend.

The next time you have a group of kids, get them together, say nothing until they all look at you, and try this... 
"OK, I am Marcy and we are here to have fun and hopefully learn something. I guarantee you if you listen, you will be a better shot than when you first walked in here. Now here are the rules
1) When I talk, I am the only one talking
2) When I talk, everyone is looking at me
3) You do not sit down unless I tell you to. We are not hatching eggs.

Invariably, there will be a few kids hamming it up. Tell them to grab their stuff and go sit somewhere separated from each other and from the group. Say nothing as they slowly grab the gear and saunter away with their little attitudes. All the other kids will be shocked and will watch closely. Once the defectors get settled, glare for a few then wave them back, still say nothing. When they rejoin the group, simply ask, "Get my point? Are we clear? Everyone Understand?"

I start almost every practice with the speech. After a few practices it becomes a roll-their-eyes joke, I simply walk up and ask, "OK. What are the rules again?... OK. Lets play."

Heads up though, kids are pretty funny and clever: In one group as we all came together, there was an 8 year old girl who would wouldn't stop yapping, dancing, and messing around. Everyone was in total shock knowing the hammer would come down. When she finally did stop, I looked at her and said in exasperation, "Certainly you know the rules by now!" She replied, "Yes I do, but you hadn't started talking yet." uhhhhh. yea. That kid has a future.


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## wacker stacker (Feb 2, 2006)

I hear you, I have been teaching my nephew how to shoot an Atomic that I just purchased and he just wants to slap the trigger. I try to beat it in his head that you will never shoot good that way and no matter what he just won't listen and it drives me absolutely nuts but what do ya do? I would love to teach archery but I might loose my mind dealing with people! You can only do so much and remember you can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink! Don't beat yourself up over it.
Remind them that they came to you for advice! If they need lessons apparently their last teacher didn't do the job!


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

sometimes, the hardest part of "coaching" is convincing the student they're "smarter than the average dog" for making the decision to spend their money on a "real coach", when they finally figure that out, they start listening! to the average person, "archery" is full of mysterious, "rules and details", that don't seem to make any difference.


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## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

You have to understand archery is the one of a few sports taught wrong from the onset.If an adult buys a bow after his purchase he is on the range.Their he is slamming the trigger on his release ,trying to hold rock steady like a rifle,and then shooting when pin is on the the x.Completely wrong then this is passed down to youngsters.Be patient once the results are seen they will believe in you.Good luck.


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## P&y only (Feb 26, 2009)

The two main causes for kids attitudes today are these: The invention of the big round bale and making it illegal to beat your children.:wink:


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

P&y only said:


> The two main causes for kids attitudes today are these: The invention of the big round bale and making it illegal to beat your children.:wink:


Big round bale?


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

the big round bale took all the "farm kids" off the hay wagon.....nothing for them to do on the farm, any more....the other is obvious!


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## wacker stacker (Feb 2, 2006)

ron w said:


> the big round bale took all the "farm kids" off the hay wagon.....nothing for them to do on the farm, any more....the other is obvious!


Ya, and they should of invented it a few years earlier cuz I grew up in a farming community and moved a bale or two back in the day! Walkin beans was worse though!


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## DirtyDave413 (Jun 17, 2010)

P&y only said:


> The two main causes for kids attitudes today are these: The invention of the big round bale and making it illegal to beat your children.:wink:


hahaha, I would love to make my step kids throw idiot blocks for a day for 2 cents a piece. I know they couldnt hang for a minute. They cry when their iphone battery dies.....


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