# Help with getting more consistent



## vafishing (Nov 23, 2011)

Attached are a couple of pics I took shooting tonight, I shoot well enough for hunting purposes, can keep it is around a 6 inch circle out the 35 yards, but want to do better, as I used to be much more consistent. I know some of my struggles are due to old equipment as I am shooting a well maintained 1997 Hoyt Raptor Carbonite. Going to get a new bow in the spring but looking to try and improve now as when I evaluate my new bow I would like to be in good form so I can make the best choice for me. Current draw length is at 28 3/4 inches. By the pics thinking I could shorten that up although not sure how since I cannot find the Master Cams to drop down to a 28 or 28.5. Grip is off so looking at nuts&bolts post and going to work on the palm against the wall and for me thumb at 10 index finger at 2 position (left handed). Anything else I should be looking at?


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Consistentcy is built in the process. Having a good fit and form help make the process easier to repeat. 

Good luck and have fun.


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## vafishing (Nov 23, 2011)

Maybe I should have asked how's my form? I am struggling getting tighter groups, need some help.

Jeff


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## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

Based upon where your arrow ends up I would say your DL is too long, if you really need that arm guard then I am on the right track. If I remember correctly for the shortest draw the string loop should be on the lowest set of pegs (bow at brace). Get this draw length deal handled before you buy something new. Once you have the correct draw you will immediately see improvements. Then you can work on the other aspects of your form, you already mentioned the grip. You may also want to get that trigger deeper into your index finger. Glad to see someone else shooting from the "right" side. Lefty's stay together!


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## vafishing (Nov 23, 2011)

454casull said:


> Based upon where your arrow ends up I would say your DL is too long, if you really need that arm guard then I am on the right track. If I remember correctly for the shortest draw the string loop should be on the lowest set of pegs (bow at brace). Get this draw length deal handled before you buy something new. Once you have the correct draw you will immediately see improvements. Then you can work on the other aspects of your form, you already mentioned the grip. You may also want to get that trigger deeper into your index finger. Glad to see someone else shooting from the "right" side. Lefty's stay together!


Thanks thought the draw length was off. Unfortunately until the new bow can't address that. My bow is a dinosaur 1997 Hoyt Raptor with Master Cams. Cannot get the module I need to shorten the draw length.


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## highpoundage (Nov 20, 2010)

My friend just pulled out his 1996 Hoyt Smoke with carbonite limbs and master cams 2 weeks ago, he has not shot since maybe 1994...the bow is basically new....never touched.

Here are some of the things that you absolutely need to check...yourself. Do not trust a shop to do this unless you are watching them. They would rather "sell" you on something then try to fix what you already have, or they don't know how to fix it to begin with. Maybe not all of them, but a lot of them, and all of them that are around me.

1 - Are the strings and cables new, or are they original?
If they are original, then you can bet the specs of the bow are way off, and the strings and cables have stretched over the years. They need to be twisted to take up any of the length that is too long. Also if they are original expect to have to replace them asap.

I had to put almost 1" of twists into my friends string to get it back down to the correct length

2 - the cams must be timed

3 - make sure the limb tips are even with each other, also called cam lean. If they are not the string will travel in a slight diagnal line when it is released, which will make tuning impossible and may cause damage to the axle pins or string servings since the string enters the cam at a slight angle instead of a straight line.

4 - balance the bow in your hand...this goes for any bow. If at full draw your arm keeps dropping then your stabilizer is too heavy, if your arm is doing circles at full draw your stabilizer is too light, if it is just right then your arm will hardly move. This is only done by trial and error. From your pics it looks like you are using a Torque Tamer stabilizer, its a great stabilizer I still use them today, but it looks way too close to the bow for correct balance....I have mine on a 6" extension bar, my friend had to do the same except it was too light so we screwed in a small limb saver on the end of the torque tamer which worked out great for him with the extra weight up front.

5 - install a Limb Saver Universal string stopper (front mount) onto the bow....it will do wonders. You will need to serve the string were the string hits the string stopper.

6 - post an add for the modules that you need and check ebay a lot. The larger modules are out there but the size 4 and lower are not. I have been looking for a set of size 4 modules for my 1997 Hoyt Deviator for about a year.

7 - Paper tune the bow from various distances, from point blank or 30" - 36" out to about 15 yards. Tune until you can get the best flight possible.

If you do all of the above right your Raptor will be shooting lights out in no time.

My friend ended up keeping up with me in his first time shooting (after I / we did all of the above) and he was shooting at 80 yards (accurately). Now he does not need to buy a new bow like he thought and I am still shooting my 1997 Deviator, 1991 Provantage, and 1993 Spectra. 

A little bit of work on his bow, a little bit of time paper tuning (and his new string stopper and release) saved him hundreds of dollars and he now has the time to really get good and buy a bow if he wants to, not that he needs to. Now all he has to do soon is get the new strings and cables.

To me, in your photos, your draw length looks good.


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## vafishing (Nov 23, 2011)

highpoundage. Good info. I had checked the timing and cam lean already and both are good. Strings and cables are two years old. I already have added probably max number of turns I can to the strings. Will keep looking for the modules but to go to 28" will take a #4 which seems to be dang near impossible to find. Interesting piece was I took your information and played around with the stabilizer. With it on I definitely seem to drop all the time, not surprising as I weighed it and that sucker weighs almost 12oz. Took it off and shot without one on their and definitely switched over to circling not nearly as bad as how I am dropping with it on there though so made a pretty marked difference in shooting even out at 30 yards. Going to try going to a lighter stabilizer and may put the string stoppers on there too. Also will ultimately put new strings and cables. Trying to not put too much into it as I am definitely buying a new one in the spring but do want to get this one into as best shooting shape as I can as it will be a backup and needs to be ready to go.


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## Zalmaran (Nov 19, 2013)

Your draw length does appear to be about an inch too long. Other than that you have decent form. You might want to open up your hand a little bit more though, and also work on your anchor point. I use three different points to make sure I have my string lined up correctly (my jaw, the corner of my mouth, and my thumb).


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

the most outstanding thing that I see is that you have a bit too much hand in your bow grip and your fingers indicate that your bow hand isn't relaxed. that leads to inconsistencies in grip torque, because the area that is in contact with the grip is large and somewhat vague in concentrated pressure. you might want to try turning your grip hand out at the bottom so that your "life line" in the palm of your hand runs parallel and about a half inch away from the edge of your bows grip. is will put allot less hand on your bow and the pressure will be more concentrated into a smaller area of your hand . it also allows your hand to compress into the "bone to bone" condition that is more repeatable.
when you do this, you'll find that your bow will move back towards you a bit and then you might find that your draw length is too long, or more too long than it is now. 
remember that ultimately, "bow fit", is responsible for 90% of the accuracy you achieve, and that draw length and grip issues are probably the no.1and no.2 concern for most coaches that work with "non-beginner shooters". an awful large amount of inconsistency is transferred to our shot through poor grip geometry.


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