# numbers down



## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

proXarchery said:


> looks like numbers were down quite a bit in nelsonville


There are so many local shoots these day and many of the local clubs are stepping up their game making Competitive shoots much more accessable without driving and staying at a Hotel. 
This past year while trying to decide which shoots to put on the calender, I had more choices than ever; to the point that shoots that I would have traveled to are no longer neccessary.


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## baird794 (Dec 2, 2006)

i think everyone is still wondering about the aconamy. i would have shoot the triple but i don't know how my work will be come next week let alone 2 or 3 months down the road.


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## proXarchery (Apr 9, 2004)

i think your both right on the money


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

I don't what shoot looked like as far as number of shooters and venders. But if you are going off the number off shooters that are listed on the score sheets. I think only the shooters that chose to pay the full entry fee get put on the sheet. The rest are just shooting for fun at a reduced rate. 
I would say that the numbers are down. Just speaking for myself I chose to quit the IBO and shoot my local WV Triple Crown,and as many ASA events as possible. I shot 2 ASA's last year and then had some health issues. I shot the first 2 legs of the WV Triple Crown and was doing very well for my first year in MBO. Im 14 pts out of the lead going into the 3rd and final shoot but once again because of heath problems I had to have a 2nd brain surgery on July 1. The last shoot is july the 19 and I cant practice so I wont be attending.
I dont want to sound like I am complaining because Iam not. I thak God that Iam alive and if its his will I will shoot for many years. There is a lot of people that have the same idea as me. We are going to pick and chose where we spend our money, and I just have more fun and feel like everything is even and more out in the open at ASA shoots. I have also learned that if you dont win at home you shouldnt expect to win on the national level. The local IBO shoots cost less to go to and its fun again. In my opinion the ASA and IBO could get together and find out why people chose to shoot what they do, make some changes to how the tournments are run to take the good from both and numbers would increase. But until then, if somone is only going to go to a few shoots and they are not worried about the overal. People are going to shoot where they feel they are going to do their best, and also have the most fun.


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## tkasten (Jul 16, 2006)

*Numbers*

The count for Nelsonville is just under 1200 shooters. That is not down. Bedford increased by 80 over last year to 1300 (higher than the Kentucky Pro/am). All you have to do is count the results on the respective websites. In Michigan IBO shoots see 3 to 4 times more shooters than do the ASA shoots.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

There are really no restrictions when shooing a IBO you have a bow and a buddy come shoot!!! ASA has a speed limit which I love, you have actual shooting times you can't shoot when you want and how many you want like the IBO does, and you don't know who you are going to shoot with! So if you want to compare numbers just let the rules be known also if you want to participate in a well run tournament enivroment like the ASA you have to follow some rules the IBO just forgets about and makes it easier to shoot a IBO event so the numbers are hard to compare! IBO needs allot of fixing before I ever go back to a triple crown event!!!!


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

cenochs said:


> There are really no restrictions when shooing a IBO you have a bow and a buddy come shoot!!! ASA has a speed limit which I love, you have actual shooting times you can't shoot when you want and how many you want like the IBO does, and you don't know who you are going to shoot with! So if you want to compare numbers just let the rules be known also if you want to participate in a well run tournament enivroment like the ASA you have to follow some rules the IBO just forgets about and makes it easier to shoot a IBO event so the numbers are hard to compare! IBO needs allot of fixing before I ever go back to a triple crown event!!!!


I agree 100%. The ASA shoots are more organized and they payout alot better without having to pay extra to shoot for the money. As long as the ASA is having tournaments I don't think that I will attend another national IBO event.


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## C.Callison (Jun 20, 2006)

tkasten said:


> The count for Nelsonville is just under 1200 shooters. That is not down. Bedford increased by 80 over last year to 1300 (higher than the Kentucky Pro/am). All you have to do is count the results on the respective websites. In Michigan IBO shoots see 3 to 4 times more shooters than do the ASA shoots.


I wasent trying to say that the numbers went down in IBO and went up at ASA. I agree that IBO would see more shooters in Michigan because the ASA only comes up to Illionis. I think if you compare the numbers from 1995 to 2010 you will see that it dosent seem to be growing. I may be totally wrong. But just comparing one year to the next realy dosent tell you much. 
One thing I do know is that out of the people that I shoot with, and used to load up and go to a big shoot know matter what, I know more that dont go now compared to ones that do. I dont consider myself old I am only 39. But I remember when their was no HC/AHC and the 11 ring was and X. I shot a 380 in the HC class at Snow Shoe and finished in the top 20. Thats how much things have changed. Iam not saying its good or bad. Its just change and everyone has their own opinion about it.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

cenochs said:


> There are really no restrictions when shooing a IBO you have a bow and a buddy come shoot!!! ASA has a speed limit which I love, you have actual shooting times you can't shoot when you want and how many you want like the IBO does, and you don't know who you are going to shoot with! So if you want to compare numbers just let the rules be known also if you want to participate in a well run tournament enivroment like the ASA you have to follow some rules the IBO just forgets about and makes it easier to shoot a IBO event so the numbers are hard to compare! IBO needs allot of fixing before I ever go back to a triple crown event!!!!


Remember to wear your collared shirt and no cut off shorts.


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## SHUEY (Jan 24, 2008)

A good way to judge is the amount of shooters in the Hunter Class
2009 215
2010 214 

One Down from last year


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*Exactly*



hoytxcutter said:


> Remember to wear your collared shirt and no cut off shorts.


You are exactly correct these are national pro ams and the dress code is a awesome idea! And i saw the rule get inforced in London and loved it!!!


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## tkasten (Jul 16, 2006)

*Numbers*

I have shot in both state and national level ASAs and IBOs and I prefer IBO. I find it more challenging. As far as cost they are about the same. I went to Kentucky Pro/am and it cost me $60.00 which did include the extra team shoot. At the IBO National Triple Crown I had the option of a $37.00 entry fee for trophies or adding $15.00 to be in the money pot. ASA was more expensive for me. I do agree that ASA pays out more money at the national level but everyone has to be in the money pot. At the state level IBO and ASA payout the same at least in Michigan. I should mention that I have shot 7 ASA's and the Kentucky Pro/am so far this year. I have also shot 8 IBO's plus 2 National Triple Crowns so far this year. I love to shoot so I do support both forms of tournaments and I'm glad that they both take place. This thread was started under the false statement that numbers are going down for IBO and not for ASA which is not true. They both are drawing about the same number of shooters. It should be noted that many of the shooters are attending both types of events. As far a compared to 1990's I think it is safe to say that everyones numbers are now smaller. Lets support all types of archery tournaments and build the sport rather than tearing it down. Different strokes for different folks!


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

proXarchery said:


> looks like numbers were down quite a bit in nelsonville


It was down 107 total from Bedford and 178 from Erie. Lots of factors affect numbers. IBO still averages roughly 150 more shooters then ASA.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Bowtechie said:


> It was down 107 total from Bedford and 178 from Erie. Lots of factors affect numbers. IBO still averages roughly 150 more shooters then ASA.


How do you figure that? 
Just trying to see where your math is? 

ASA has 6 national events then its Classic
IBO has 6 national events then is worlds , Correct??

If you wouldn't mind show me the true raw numbers of both national events and tell me please , which avgs more as a whole? 
Thanks.

I personally don't care what org you shoot....Ibo/Asa/Nfaa/Ifaa/WAL/ Just trying to compare apples to apples is hard enough, so the overall 7shoots for each I would go with.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

The IBO appeals to more weekend shooters because they don't have as many rules to follow as the ASA. The ASA has a true compeitive format unlike the IBO. It is easier to get shooters when you can shoot at anytime you want and bring whatever bow you have laying around because it most cases speed is out the door for IBO shoots. If the IBO would operate the triple crown events like the world tournament format then they would be on the right track! What I am trying to say is to participate in a ASA event which has structure you must follow rules that enforces this structure and for many shooters they don't want to follow the rules or don't have the time getting a ASA setup ready for the shoots. So the numbers for ASA represent a little more than the IBO's numbers. Hopefully the ASA and IBO would go together and we would only have one organization and one set of rules for compeitive archery! Remember at the end of the day this is compeitive archery not practice for bowhunting at it's core. These Pro Ams and Triple Crown
events are serious business for competive archers not practice for bowhunting. If the sport wants to grow into a national sport the bowhunter practice mentality has to be changed!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

cenochs said:


> The IBO appeals to more weekend shooters because they don't have as many rules to follow as the ASA. The ASA has a true compeitive format unlike the IBO. It is easier to get shooters when you can shoot at anytime you want and bring whatever bow you have laying around because it most cases speed is out the door for IBO shoots. If the IBO would operate the triple crown events like the world tournament format then they would be on the right track! What I am trying to say is to participate in a ASA event which has structure you must follow rules that enforces this structure and for many shooters they don't want to follow the rules or don't have the time getting a ASA setup ready for the shoots. So the numbers for ASA represent a little more than the IBO's numbers. Hopefully the ASA and IBO would go together and we would only have one organization and one set of rules for compeitive archery! Remember at the end of the day this is compeitive archery not practice for bowhunting at it's core. These Pro Ams and Triple Crown
> events are serious business for competive archers not practice for bowhunting. If the sport wants to grow into a national sport the bowhunter practice mentality has to be changed!


Well said


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

add up the shooters add up the entry fees the ibo is run like our gov. someone is putting tons of cash in there pocket, you dont win enough if you win a ibo(unless you are pro) to buy your gas back home, asa is more organized has a better pay out and a speed limit which keeps the shooters on a level playing field, when you have shoots without a speed limit you shoot yardages that are well over max!


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

bhtr3d said:


> How do you figure that?
> Just trying to see where your math is?
> 
> ASA has 6 national events then its Classic
> ...


That 150 figure was for just 2 shoots each Texas/London vs. Bedford/Erie

If you go back and add up the total scores for the last 4 ASA shoots and divide by 4 and you will get 1169.5 and the 3 IBO's and it is 1277 for a difference of 108. The Metropolis shoot helped the average for the ASA a bunch with 1216 shooters of which many were IBO/ASA shooters. You can't count the IBO Southern shoots because they are not established shoots and don't have the full number of classes. Unless you want to count ASA numbers in Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania which would be zero.


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## trinibob (Mar 10, 2004)

the only thing i could see keeping people from attending the shoot was a 10.00 walking fee??
my god! a guy had to pay for his 10 yr old son to walk with us!
and the friend that me and my shooting bud had tagging along was not even to pay and we told the nice lady at the desk he was just walking with us???
is this how IBO gets new shooters intrested in a national shoot???


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## $dabucks (Mar 1, 2008)

I shot Nelsonville for the second time and loved it. I think the IBO needs to do a better job of promoting itself to the local clubs. I was at a local club in Akron, Ohio in June and they said see you next month. I said ," Can't shoot next month I am shooting the IBo shoot in Nelsonville and they asked waht the IBO was. 

We have a number of clubs that hold shoots the same weeks as the big IBO shoots because tehy don't know anything about the IBO.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

3Dblackncamo said:


> add up the shooters add up the entry fees the ibo is run like our gov. someone is putting tons of cash in there pocket, you dont win enough if you win a ibo(unless you are pro) to buy your gas back home, asa is more organized has a better pay out and a speed limit which keeps the shooters on a level playing field, when you have shoots without a speed limit you shoot yardages that are well over max!


If you don't know the facts you should keep quiet. The IBO only gets $5 of the entry fees. They help in protecting our bowhunting rights.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*?*



hoytxcutter said:


> If you don't know the facts you should keep quiet. The IBO only gets $5 of the entry fees. They help in protecting our bowhunting rights.


If you know the facts where does the rest of the money go? Doesn't the host club make a killing off the shoots and isn't it the same clubs every year ? Would someone do the math on how much the IBO receives how much is paid out to shooters and how much the host club gets! Just a guess it is way off balance!!!!!!


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

ttt


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

*If the the IBO only gets $5.00 how does it generate $661,129 in revenue in 2008. At that rate they would have needed 132,225.8 shooters.

$5 a shooter does not even come close to paying the $102,000.00 in salary, that someone is recieving.*


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

*Heres some other numbers that you might be interested in.

Pro Purses = $210,952 which equals 31.91% of revenue

Awards and Prizes = $26,571 which equals 4% of revenue (Pro's also recieve awards)


World Championship Revenue $123,418.00*


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## ky hammer (Jan 7, 2003)

well i am a member of both asa and ibo and i enjoy both of them i actualy prefer the ibo due to you shoot a trail out in the woods and you dont know what is coming next. also if i want to go shoot on friday or part on saturday and part on sunday then i can. i dont have to be there at 12 on saturday and 8 on sunday. all i hear is about rules rules and rules not being enforced at the ibo shoots. well you know what in the past i know guys that have been shooting way over the 280 limit and getting away with it and winning so dont give me any of that. if a man wants to cheat he will cheat and yes he may be caught but he might not. i have shot a lot of asa courses where you can see on target from the other and have seen a lot of guys stepping off the yardage from one to the next so like i said there is cheating even if we turn our head and say no there isnt in this org or that org. the main thing we are missing is just have fun with it. go shoot your bow enjoy the competiton and if you are worried about winning money put your money where there is some the pro class. they are sure not going to let you cheat.


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## hoytxcutter (Sep 1, 2003)

ROSKO P said:


> *If the the IBO only gets $5.00 how does it generate $661,129 in revenue in 2008. At that rate they would have needed 132,225.8 shooters.
> 
> $5 a shooter does not even come close to paying the $102,000.00 in salary, that someone is recieving.*


How many other qualifiers are there? They get $5 for each shooter at local events also.


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## ROSKO P (Mar 2, 2009)

My point is they are generating way more than $5.00 per shooter at these tournaments. The money may not be coming straight off the top, but it is coming from somewhere.


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## Bowtechie (Jan 20, 2003)

ROSKO P said:


> My point is they are generating way more than $5.00 per shooter at these tournaments. The money may not be coming straight off the top, but it is coming from somewhere.


Do you realize that every time someone shoots the defensive range it is $5. 
Do you realize how many people shoot the defensive range? A very high number.

Now whats your point?


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*?*



ky hammer said:


> well i am a member of both asa and ibo and i enjoy both of them i actualy prefer the ibo due to you shoot a trail out in the woods and you dont know what is coming next. also if i want to go shoot on friday or part on saturday and part on sunday then i can. i dont have to be there at 12 on saturday and 8 on sunday. all i hear is about rules rules and rules not being enforced at the ibo shoots. well you know what in the past i know guys that have been shooting way over the 280 limit and getting away with it and winning so dont give me any of that. if a man wants to cheat he will cheat and yes he may be caught but he might not. i have shot a lot of asa courses where you can see on target from the other and have seen a lot of guys stepping off the yardage from one to the next so like i said there is cheating even if we turn our head and say no there isnt in this org or that org. the main thing we are missing is just have fun with it. go shoot your bow enjoy the competiton and if you are worried about winning money put your money where there is some the pro class. they are sure not going to let you cheat.



I disagree when it comes to the national triple crown, these 3 shoots should have shooting times for each day. You can't tell me it is fair if one guy shoots all 40 targets on Friday in perfect condition and the other compeitors have to shoot in wind and rain on the weekend. I don't see a problem with it if it is not a triple crown event. If you are going to a triple crown event or ASA Pro Am not trying to win or improve then what are you really doing there. Fun can be had after you shoot at local ranges and practice but you got to get serious at national events. I know it is hard to have shooting times at IBO events becuase of how the course is setup but it could be done with a little tweaking!! Remember I am talking about the 3 Pro AM's and 3 Triple Crown Events these are about the best competition and competing not for pleasing everyone and eating Ice Cream


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

cenochs said:


> I disagree when it comes to the national triple crown, these 3 shoots should have shooting times for each day. You can't tell me it is fair if one guy shoots all 40 targets on Friday in perfect condition and the other compeitors have to shoot in wind and rain on the weekend. I don't see a problem with it if it is not a triple crown event. If you are going to a triple crown event or ASA Pro Am not trying to win or improve then what are you really doing there. Fun can be had after you shoot at local ranges and practice but you got to get serious at national events. I know it is hard to have shooting times at IBO events becuase of how the course is setup but it could be done with a little tweaking!! Remember I am talking about the 3 Pro AM's and 3 Triple Crown Events these are about the best competition and competing not for pleasing everyone and eating Ice Cream


Shoot times mean nothing unless it is a shot-gun start and all competitors shoot at the same time. IBO Worlds has shoot times, last year our group and many others started early day one and we were 7 targets in before we could actually see the full targets due to the fog. Guys starting an hour or so later did not deal with it. And I highly doubt you will ever see a shot-gun start at an IBO shoot. But I do totally agree there needs to be an equal playing field for all involved


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