# How would this help you on yardage mistakes..



## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

To me this info has limited application. What you need to know is how much drop or rise you would have when misjudging by a certain amount at each yardage. For example if the target was at 40 yards and you shot it for 38 yards, how low would you hit with each set up. The total drop isn't really a concern.


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## swampy_44 (Nov 15, 2013)

Wouldn't that be arrow drop per yard? The sheet has that darton.


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## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

I don't see where the fat or skinny has anything to do with it the yardage drop difference is more because one arrow is traveling 20fps faster than the other your comparison needs to be between two arrow of the same weight they should be close in fps when they leave the string then see what your drop chart says


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

with the big shafts u will have larger pin gaps unless u add another pin. need to have better yd judging skills with the larger shafts example if target is 45 shoot it for 42 prolly hang a nasty 5, with your gt's u will still b an 8. i always looked at shooting a bigger slower shaft my x count was larger but i always seemed to have more 8's and arg nickle. just go with if short course shoot fattys and if planning on a long set shoot fast skinnys


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Granted you will have a tighter overall scale but: Using the drop per yard numbers there isn't much difference between the two. Say for example you have a 43 yard target that you estimate at 40..
With the fatties at an estimated 1.8" per yard drop you will land 5.4" low
With the skinniest at an estimated 1.5" per yard drop you will land 4.5" low
So that equates to .9" difference at the lower end of your maximum course distance.. Not much but every bit helps you older folks!!!
Enjoy the Burner Gregg..


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

swampy_44 said:


> Wouldn't that be arrow drop per yard? The sheet has that darton.


It does, but that is not what he has circled, so I assumed he was talking about the numbers he has circled.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

Physics is not my strong point so perhaps someone could explain this to me a little better.

The faster arrow at 45 yards will drop 6.5" LESS that the slower arrow. How would that translate to only 1" difference on a 3D target set at 45 yards?
What am I missing?


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Line of sight never matches a zero or level flight path. Notice there is no arc in the drop chart.our line of sight always launches the arrow in an upward angle and the chart is showing the arrow being launched perfectly level and dropping from there. That being said, with my recent judging prowess 22-250 numbers would barely keep me on target.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

Got it, thanks Mark.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

So comparing the same exact GoldTip Ultralight Pro...

294 fps vs 316 fps 

The difference at 45 yards is only about 3/16". Less than a quarter inch. ukey:


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

View attachment 2232392

Kind of a generic chart but this shows more realistically what you can expect. Peep height, sight radius, nock height, even fletching (drag) along with 50 other things can affect the final numbers but this shows more of what we would relate to. If you look where the lines cross at 35 and 40 it is not as much help as most believe..


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I am a semi pro asa unknown guy and I can't have any 8's on my score card and on top of that I must aim at all of the 12 rings regardless of distance. So to make it around a tough course I have to be able to judge and keep my arrow dead on or slightly above the 12 ring at all times never dropping out or shooting out the top.

So I have my bow shooting I believe 292 fps and I go to distances such as 50 and I make sure my bow is dead on with the bow set on 50 on the sight tape. So I then take a step forward and see where it hits and then I take another step forward and see where it hits and sooner or later even though I am still aiming dead on at the 12 ring I am going to start hitting out the top of the 10 ring and start hitting 8's. For me and my bow set on 292 fps I start hitting 8's when I move up to 47.5 yards and by 47 yards they are totally out the top. Why? because I am losing slightly over 2 inches per yard at that distance. I don't know the exact amount and I really don't care because i have to deal with staying under the speed limit and with my arrow choice and only drawing 62lbs my bow shoots 292 which is close enough. 

Now if I could shoot a bow that was shooting 316 fps what that is going to do is give me a few precious tenths of a inch per yard that start to add up to a quarter or half inch so that if I was shooting 316 I might be able to set my bow on 47.5 or even 47 yards and still stay in the 10 ring at my max.

The shot I am talking about is a stinking coyote or something out there and it looks weird in a dark tunnel or maybe they took away the ground and I can tell that the target is basically at the max distance which is 50 yards in semi pro. So if I think it is 48 yards it would be nice to go ahead and set my sight on 48 and shoot the shot but that is dangerous because the 5 line is less than 2 inches below the 12 ring on that target and I am losing 2 inches per yard at that distance at least. So by me knowing that if the target is at least 48 I can then set my sight on 48 and guarantee myself a 10 where the arrow hits dead on for a 12 if it is 50 and if it is 48 or 49 I am safe above the 12 with a nice 10.

Like I said if my bow was shooting faster then I might be able to use that same trick down to 47 yard shots. To me a target that is 48 or farther is a very easy shot because you simply put 50 on it and shoot and take your 10 or 12. It is the 46 or 47 yard shot that to me is the hardest ones to manage because you are losing still right at 2 inches per yard at those distances.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

I agree Padgett and great explanation from you I'm a open b asa guy. It seems I have the same issues with 40-43 yard targets that seems to my critical range that I have to read right.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I won out of open a last year so I had a 45 yard max and played the same game there, I have never been overly strong with guessing the distance and so setting my sight is beyond important to allow myself to be competitive.

Here is one of my favorite tricks:

I do this trick on the asa 3d practice ranges with a range finder where I leave my bow and stool and just walk the course and I also shoot the team shoot and after the team shoot I stick around and practice ranging the team shoot courses using this trick. 

So I pick 40 yards as my number that I am going to concentrate on and I go to a shooting lane and I walk towards the target until I am mentally at 40 yards by just looking at the target size and I stop and range it with the range finder. then I instantly go to the next target and do the same thing walking to 40 yards and stopping and ranging it with the range finder. What this trick does is it gets 40 yards stuck in my head with all of the targets that I am going to be shooting for the weekend.

I will take a trip around all the team shoot courses doing this trick and then I will range all of the shooting stakes that were used by the team shooters as a second trip around the courses. This usually takes me a hour to do after the team shoot but it is time well spent with levi and Tim and the other good pro shooters who are doing the same thing working on yardage.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

So there is one of my favorite tricks but how does it relate to this thread, because if I can guess pretty much within a yard and a half all day long then I know that at 40 yards I am losing about 1.5 inches of drop for every yard I miss on my guess. So if I see a target that is what I think is 40 yards I can safely shoot it for 41 yards and I am either going to hit dead on perfect or 1.5 inches high. 

Now what is really cool is if I screw up and the target is actually 39 yards and I shoot it for 41 yards then I am going to miss 3 inches high and still be a solid 10, The only way I am going to screw up the target is if I shoot it for 41 and it was 38 yards because now I am going to shoot out the top of the 10 ring and get a 8. But the other disaster is to see 40 and set the sight for 41 but the target is actually 42.5 yards because you are not screwed and out the bottom. 

What is cool though is that if you see 40 and you set your sight for 41 and the target ends up being 41.5 if you are aiming dead on at the 12 ring there is a half inch of 12 ring below your pin and you can still pull a 12 on the bottom edge. 

For shooters that are new to the asa scoring rings and the game that you have to play to be competitive it is hard to understand the little things but the difference in speed from 292 to 316 would give me some beyond valuable quarter inches that I could use to my benefit when making decisions that keep me in the 10 ring.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Your totally right Padgett, and I hope my response above didn't give anyone the feeling that the speed is useless. At the higher levels that extra 1/4" or so at 40 yards can be the difference between cashing a check or going home broke again. The guys shooting at that level usually are not missing by much more than those 15 fps are making up. 
The OP is a good friend and I was just busting his balls a bit but I agree if you can pick up a few fps and maintain your accuracy- it's a no brainier.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

I think the way I understand it... a 4 yard misjudge at 45 yards would be 3/4" higher at 316 than at 394... That is a lot, especially since Rhinehart seems to have forgotten to put an 8 ring between the bottom of the 10 and the start of the 5.


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## ACE430 (May 19, 2006)

Padgett I am hearing you say that you get plus two inches per yard at your 292. I know that my setup is a lot less than that per yard. I am under 1.5 inches per yard with my sight tape at 290 .Have you ever asked what the other shooters get per yard?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

How much you are losing depends on what distance you are shooting at, so to me my bow is losing at least 2 inches per yard when I am at 50 yards. This totally screws me when I am shooting a 50 yard max course and I set my sight on 50 thinking the shot may be from 48 to 50 yards and I want to hit dead on or slightly high in the 10 ring and I shoot the shot and hit 2 or 3 inches low because they set it at 51 or 51.5 yards just past our max. 

I don't have a actual program that generates the arrow flight like the archers advantage one that I believe does this, it would be handy to study it and get a better feel for how much your bow is actually losing rather than doing what I do which is just learning how my bow hits by experience. I shoot 40 shoots per year so there are thousands of shots and watching the arrow flight is how i do things.

Crap, now you got me wanting one of the cool programs.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Actually back when I was shooting my bowtech destroyer at 345 fps with light arrows in 2010 I actually shot it in the open class locally and with a 5 pin sight. I made a inch drop card so that if I was shooting at 33 yards or 37 yards or 43 yards I knew exactly how high to aim with my 30 or 40 yard pin. I think the two summers that i shot that bow at those high speeds taught me a lot about arrow flight and how to manage it on a 3d course. In fact now on a asa course when I am shooting with other guys shooting the same speed as me in the low to mid 290's I watch the arrow flight and you can see a ton of good info in the last few yards when a arrow is approaching a target and it helps me not make a stupid decision on my yardage.

I know a lot of guys look at the holes in the target to help them make a decision, I never really did like that method but by watching a 293fps arrow fly through the air and how it drops or doesn't drop at the very end I can keep from making a 5 yard screw up on my guess.


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## ACE430 (May 19, 2006)

I also watch all the arrows I can to pick up on the drop. Have you ever had different bows that are better than others with the arrow drop? My buddy and I shoot the same arrow but out of different bows and they do not drop the same at the same speed.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Lots of very good information in both Padgett's and ACE430's post above. Read them more than once and take notes and let it sink in. There is still nothing better than being able to make an accurate estimate of the yardage. Get out and practice it routinely like you shoot routinely. Only thing I might add is I find that if anything I would rather over judge the distance by a yard or two than think it is less than it is by a yard or two on shots out past 10 yards. My .02


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## crowinghen (Oct 2, 2011)

hrtlnd164 said:


> View attachment 2232392
> 
> Kind of a generic chart but this shows more realistically what you can expect. Peep height, sight radius, nock height, even fletching (drag) along with 50 other things can affect the final numbers but this shows more of what we would relate to. If you look where the lines cross at 35 and 40 it is not as much help as most believe..


Intereesting that the slowest speed has the highest arch before falling.


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