# Have you truely beaten TP ??



## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Just wondering if any of you have ever really put this beast in its place ?? 

I went to a hinge this past winter to try and work thru it , actually had a couple practices that I strung over 100 consecutive Xs and thought I was on my way , downside it was with a hook ........ when I went to a few tournaments I would get the problems back and almost always shoot mid 40X counts and a 299 , once I had a 4 my brain seemed to get where it wanted to be ........ go back to practice with no one around and shoot hi X count 300s , after 15+ yrs of this crap , maybe competetion is something I shouldnt try anymore , used to love it and do well at it ..... now , not so much 

quit shooting for a couple weeks , got rid of the loop , put my plunger rest back on and to start with the arrow was on its way before I even got my hand back to anchor , shot a 276 - 14X , then a 287-25X....... those scores would have been enough for a suicide watch before my TP started

Me thinks its time just to shoot , have fun shooting with the wife and the rest of my shootin buddies and forget about score , I busted my butt this winter trying to get competetive again and my issues came back worse than ever 

OK , thats about enough crying in my beer ...... now there is a thought , a beer mite be just what I need :thumbs_up


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## herrmanns139 (Jan 27, 2010)

I have also had trouble with target panic with my release. I shot a wrist strap style and I would always want to rush the pin to the mark and jam on the trigger. I am not a target shooter because I am a poor shot, but I still would get flyers on my little target.

When I tried fingers, the problem was reduced somewhat. It felt like shooting trad, but easier. I was able to beat target panic a little I guess. When I get my new old bow, I will see.

But I do like the direction you are going. It is about personal enjoyment. THat is why I think it is important for everyone to shoot their favorite style.

But I do think it will help your tp. Good luck, it can be a b****! Lol.


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

always been a finger flinger till TP hit , the hinge release was just a try at beating it , altho hunting I do use a release because of TP with my fingers , hunting I dont have TP with a release and I couldnt stand wounding an animal because of a misplaced shot that I could have prevented


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

Sometimes I am as cool as can be and for some unknown reason other days I am a basket case. I fought it tooth and nail almost 10 years? With the great progress I was lucky enough to make, still I have to be vigilant. A break from competitive shooting might be a good thing. I thinks it happens for different reason to different people. Bottom line is, it can make you hate shooting, the one reason I refused to give up. I shoot a bare bow every week, nothing but positive stuff came out of that, I even shoot pretty fair out to 40 yards with one now. I picked up shooting a BT release as well, it did wonders for my control and aiming but it is not a "fix all". If I go out and shoot poorly and obviously not in control, I put it away till tomorrow. We can't be our best every day. When I am shooting good, I shoot every arrow I possibly can because I think it reinforces "right". I also believe EVERY shooter, if they want to admit it or not has bouts with it off and on if they shoot long enough. I love bow shooting and bow hunting, I will not let it beat me...........:wink:


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

not sure what it is exactly but i had an experience at a 3d comp last year where i was so indecisive of the distance on one shot that i hesitated at full draw and couldn't release. as a beginner i had missed the previous 2 targets but had shot a personal best on the previous range of 10 targets. the target was a big elk or caribou accross a dam and quite close. i shot an 8. haven't had this happen since. i just make my best distance guess, stick to it, shoot and hope for the best. was that target panic?


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## jmoose77 (Apr 3, 2004)

I have a slight bout of tp shooting without sights and extreme case shooting with sights/fingers. I can't get the pin to come down to the target.

I have a high country bow set up with sights/release and have no problem at all with tp. What a mind game shooting a bow can be.


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

jmoose77 said:


> I have a slight bout of tp shooting without sights and extreme case shooting with sights/fingers. I can't get the pin to come down to the target.
> 
> I have a high country bow set up with sights/release and have no problem at all with tp. What a mind game shooting a bow can be.


Actually , barebow is what gave me my TP yrs ago , had been shooting pins and wanted a change , took the sights off and fell in love with that style shooting , indoors stayed in the low/mid 290s , outdoors my scores would always place in either the bhfsl class or the bhfs class ......... as time went by I started shooting faster and faster , but it came on slowly and I didnt notice that form was leaving and speed shooting was arriving and that now I was pass shooting and from there on my ability to aim was lost , especially if I am competing ........ I just cant hit the target when I cant aim at it , anytime my pin and any portion of the target start coming together I immediately start ripping my fingers off of the string , if I force myself to hold on target I get to shaking and jumping so bad that a bushel basket isnt big enough to hold my group ......... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## jmoose77 (Apr 3, 2004)

ia bhtr said:


> Actually , barebow is what gave me my TP yrs ago , had been shooting pins and wanted a change , took the sights off and fell in love with that style shooting , indoors stayed in the low/mid 290s , outdoors my scores would always place in either the bhfsl class or the bhfs class ......... as time went by I started shooting faster and faster , but it came on slowly and I didnt notice that form was leaving and speed shooting was arriving and that now I was pass shooting and from there on my ability to aim was lost , especially if I am competing ........ I just cant hit the target when I cant aim at it , anytime my pin and any portion of the target start coming together I immediately start ripping my fingers off of the string , if I force myself to hold on target I get to shaking and jumping so bad that a bushel basket isnt big enough to hold my group ......... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Same here. I was at a 3d shoot a few years ago and one of the guys said your not holding as long as you use to. My shooting was almost to the point of snap shooting and didn't have any ideal something had changed. 
It takes time to work through TP and hang in there.
I don't know of a quick fix for TP and if you find one...please let me know.


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

*Been There Done That*

I did the same exact thing trying to learn a relesae last year and finally hung it up it freaked me out so bad. Worst was the target panic carried back to my fingers with the hand just letting go before I was back to my face. Good thing I draw right at the target, bad because I would hit myself in the mouth every time it happened. You would think that would have cured me. Anyway, it took a lot of work and concentration on my follow through after the shot but I pretty much got it wupped. 

Biggest thing I can offer was something my brother-in-law pointed out. I wasn't breathing! Now as soon as I anchor I make sure I take a breath, then as my pin settles on the target, I take another, then another before I release. Makes a world of difference. :thumbs_up

Really s**ks that after 40 years of essentially being a shooting machine, I have to now think about all these motions.


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## white tail 10* (Aug 3, 2005)

*beat it !*

shot instinctive bare bow
TP got so bad i hit the wall in an indoor shoot , not even anchoring before shooting
did this and helped a lot
1-change from 72lb to 63 lb in three steps
2-started to swim more often , 30 min fast
3- did shoulder lifts with dumbells
4-started enjoying the company of my competition (and magically started the beat them)
5-started to make the effotr to stay in the target instead of release while moving to the target.

i am better now .


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

There MAY somewhere be the fortunate person that beats it but IMO, you only control it. TP is a personality disorder.


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## arrowshooters (Jun 5, 2006)

Unclegus said:


> There MAY somewhere be the fortunate person that beats it but IMO, you only control it. TP is a personality disorder.


 HAHAHA you could be right! Maybe I should go see a shrink instead of all the other nonsense I put myself through.


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## dragonheart (Jul 18, 2008)

yes psychological intervention is sometimes needed in extreme cases!! LOL!


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I have read, on here, that you need to go to a happy place to be any good. After a really hard year of fighting TP I have just two good ways to stop the panic. First I stop shooting, that mean, I will not even load a arrow. I will just draw the bow and hold the pin on target as long as possible, then let down. This teaches me to hold longer without shooting. Guys at the range look at me as if I'm crazy and will even say "stop you fogot to load a arrow". Second I will switch out the lens in the scope with a true spot. This teaches me to let the spot move around in the sight and center without the disattaction of a pin (only look at the spot). I then can get my shot sequence going and making good shoots. It turns out the harder I try the worst it gets. I only think of one thing at a time. I wrote down several easy steps to follow. So my happy place is just making it easier. dd


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## jmoose77 (Apr 3, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> There MAY somewhere be the fortunate person that beats it but IMO, you only control it. TP is a personality disorder.





dragonheart said:


> yes psychological intervention is sometimes needed in extreme cases!! LOL!


You mean that's all it was. I was worried it may be something serious.:wacko::crazy:


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## jwoods (Dec 3, 2002)

ia bhtr said:


> Just wondering if any of you have ever really put this beast in its place ??
> 
> I went to a hinge this past winter to try and work thru it , actually had a couple practices that I strung over 100 consecutive Xs and thought I was on my way , downside it was with a hook ........ when I went to a few tournaments I would get the problems back and almost always shoot mid 40X counts and a 299 , once I had a 4 my brain seemed to get where it wanted to be ........ go back to practice with no one around and shoot hi X count 300s , after 15+ yrs of this crap , maybe competetion is something I shouldnt try anymore , used to love it and do well at it ..... now , not so much
> 
> ...



Me thinks your shooting buddies miss having you around, TP or not!! :wave:


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

jwoods said:


> Me thinks your shooting buddies miss having you around, TP or not!! :wave:


Thanks Jas , the shooter in the family and I will be over to league Monday nite ......... gotta promise not to laugh tho


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> There MAY somewhere be the fortunate person that beats it but IMO, you only control it. TP is a personality disorder.


I think the perfect definition , Gus ,.. is a lack of confidence , which would be a personality disorder , but for me , its only in my shooting , no where else , and as you say , not sure anyone really beats it , some control it better than others tho .......... when I shot Vegas with Protecman a yr ago , Tp was destroying me the last day , thought I was going to blow a blood vessel , Marc said it sure didnt show on the outside , inside I had a Tsunami goin on along with an 8.5 on the ricter scale earth quake


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

jmoose77 said:


> You mean that's all it was. I was worried it may be something serious.:wacko::crazy:



All jokes aside. Let me get serious for just a minute, because that's about as long as I can be serious. And I figure there's a lot of you out there that already know this, but I'll tell it for those that maby don't. Target panic is brought on by fear of failure. You no longer have any confidence in your shot to hit the middle and shooting the arrow where you want it becomes more important than HOW you shoot the shot. The catch 22 is that if you shoot the shot correctly, you don't have to worry about where it is going. I've had target panic since 1978. I did fine until I started shooting close to 520 field rounds, and then score became more important than the fundamentals...I have managed to control it with a clicker, but I understand that's the hardest way to do it. I can stand ten feet from a target and without the clicker and will uncontrollably release an arrow at the target. I put the arrow behind the clicker, and I can stand their until my arms fall off and hold on the middle of the X. And you think you need a shrink. If I were to start again to deal with it, I'd first of all take anything that looks like a small pin or dot and put them in the classifieds or give them someone I didn't like. I'd take just a plain scope housing with no lens or anything in it and just center up the target in the housing and get up close and shoot until the confidence level started to come back. That's a biggie. A lot of people are control freaks. They have to have a tiny pin that they can hold in the middle of the middle and they can't execute a shot because they have to have that kind of control. It's probably even worse for these types to surrender that kind of control and shoot a big circle or just the housing than it is to break a wild horse. The thing is that you have to surrender that kind of control to get things back to where they need to be where how is more important than the result. Kind of like being able to surrender control of your life to Jesus and let him guide you rather than trying to direct every out come. Just remember. SURRENDER TO WIN>>>>


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> All jokes aside. Let me get serious for just a minute, because that's about as long as I can be serious. And I figure there's a lot of you out there that already know this, but I'll tell it for those that maby don't. Target panic is brought on by fear of failure. You no longer have any confidence in your shot to hit the middle and shooting the arrow where you want it becomes more important than HOW you shoot the shot. The catch 22 is that if you shoot the shot correctly, you don't have to worry about where it is going. I've had target panic since 1978. I did fine until I started shooting close to 520 field rounds, and then score became more important than the fundamentals...I have managed to control it with a clicker, but I understand that's the hardest way to do it. I can stand ten feet from a target and without the clicker and will uncontrollably release an arrow at the target. I put the arrow behind the clicker, and I can stand their until my arms fall off and hold on the middle of the X. And you think you need a shrink. If I were to start again to deal with it, I'd first of all take anything that looks like a small pin or dot and put them in the classifieds or give them someone I didn't like. I'd take just a plain scope housing with no lens or anything in it and just center up the target in the housing and get up close and shoot until the confidence level started to come back. That's a biggie. A lot of people are control freaks. They have to have a tiny pin that they can hold in the middle of the middle and they can't execute a shot because they have to have that kind of control. It's probably even worse for these types to surrender that kind of control and shoot a big circle or just the housing than it is to break a wild horse. The thing is that you have to surrender that kind of control to get things back to where they need to be where how is more important than the result. Kind of like being able to surrender control of your life to Jesus and let him guide you rather than trying to direct every out come. Just remember. SURRENDER TO WIN>>>>


Gus laid out a ton of accurate thoughts there , a lot of wisdom in what he said , when I gave my defintion as a lack of confidence , what I meant to say was pretty similar to what Gus said , the definition of TP = The Fear of Missing = Gus summed things up very well


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. When you get old, no one thinks you know anything because your skills go in the dumper, but your knowledge usually goes the other way....:angel:


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## ProtecMan (Apr 14, 2003)

UncleGus, you definitely hit the nail on the head! Why is it that I can crush 50 yard crossing targets in sporting clays and love it, but put myself into an absolute quandry over a 3D animal or a Vegas target? Using a clicker definitely saved me from quitting the sport and as of this past year I have started hunting with a release. 
It is defiinitely a personality issue, which is why some people have it and others don't. It's not hard for me to figure out that I shoot my best scores at local shoots with my kids and/or friends and beat myself up at national tournaments even when I shoot well. 
It's not the fact that I need to beat or master TP, I just need to find a pill to cure my OCD!

No matter what, I will never quit the sport. I have two kids that still need coaching in this great sport!


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

According to GRIV it's curable: Here's a link to that thread in the general section: I have been following his instruction for about a year now and I am starting to get the "hard wiring" rewired or as you say it under control. You really have to start over, thats hard to do when you been shooting as long as I have. dd 
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=237527&highlight=target+panic


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## 963369 (Nov 15, 2003)

I tried the Push-Release method (by Michael Linsin)which I found advertised in the back of a trad magazine. It works. You watch a dvd, and follow a regimen for about a week. ther is a slight change in anchor and in release, Trust me, I tried everything else, and this thing works. Best 30 bucks I ever spent. btw--it only works with fingers, not w/a release.


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## fingers (May 27, 2002)

Curable? LOL! It's not a disease! It's misplaced focus of attention. 
But it is a real good excuse not to function like we want,,, Why does a clicker help? Oh, I dunno, maybe because it makes us think of something else instead of thinking about what makes us self destruct. How nice and easy it is to have a built in excuse to fail! TP, we can't even spell it out for fear of a re- occurrence, right? Buck up! You fell into the easy street of excuses as it frees you up from a real hard problem, how to be perfect. Well let me tell you right now. You aren't going to be perfect. So now the pressures off. But you got to be good right, and failing makes you really look bad. Give yourself a break,, nobody cares about that except you. Soooo, now you are free. That big bad thing only has meaning if you want it to. Did you know that Archery is,,, fun???? So go back and put your shot together with all the great things you have learned and have at your disposal. Put it together with the idea of the best form and let the score take care of itself. It's a zen thing, enjoy and be true to what you are doing for yourself. Just make sure it is fun for you, not life and death,,,:angel:


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Fingers well said. Its not a loss of anything. dd


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## big cypress (Jul 31, 2006)

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

ia bhtr said:


> Just wondering if any of you have ever really put this beast in its place ??
> 
> I went to a hinge this past winter to try and work thru it , actually had a couple practices that I strung over 100 consecutive Xs and thought I was on my way , downside it was with a hook ........ when I went to a few tournaments I would get the problems back and almost always shoot mid 40X counts and a 299 , once I had a 4 my brain seemed to get where it wanted to be ........ go back to practice with no one around and shoot hi X count 300s , after 15+ yrs of this crap , maybe competetion is something I shouldnt try anymore , used to love it and do well at it ..... now , not so much
> 
> ...


Did a little work on my stabilizer set up , got the bow balancing better , started paying strict attention to the different stages of my shot , actually was able to aim a little today , drawing with 3 and dropping the ring finger , worked well ...... except when I forgot to drop the ring finger .......... doooohhh :doh: ..... got a couple reeeaalyy ugly 3s out of that deal , overall was OK , had several 4x groups always found away to launch 1 , but , better , got my DL about as close as I can ........ lots of positives today , lots of hard work ahead ...... today was fun again


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## TN Hunter (Oct 12, 2003)

Been dealing with this myself. I can remember when mine started. I have always been an above average shooter. Not a great shooter, but above average. I went over to one of the military bases to qualify for the upcoming bow season. 2 shots at 15, 20, and 25 yards. 5 arrows have to be in the vitals. Piece of cake Well on my 4th shot, I fired early and shot just outside of the vital. So, I started thinking "Oh crap, if I miss again, I will fail the qualification." Also, everyone was watching, which didn’t help things either. I ended up passing the qualification, but on those last 2 shots I struggled to keep the pin on the target. That was 2 years ago.
When I shoot 3-D, I come in from right to left on the target. I have formed the habit of shooting to the right all of the time. I just couldn't seem to get the pin on the vital without wanting to pull the trigger before it got there. About 5 weeks ago, I shot my lowest score ever on a 3-D range. One of the shots was a chip shot on a huge goat. I nearly hit it in the butt.
I ordered a TruBall Sweet Spot. I shot it for a month with mixed results. Sometimes I could pull back, hold on the target, and it would fire making a perfect shot. Other times, the freaking thing seemed like it would just not go off. I am standing there shaking until it fired and then made a bad shot. It did however, help me from firing early. 
Today, not so good. I pulled back, put it on the vital, let off the safety, then pull, pull, pull, pull until I was shaking. Went to let down and it fired, sending my arrow across the woods. I switched back to my Scott in the middle of the tournament and with a little sight tweaking while I was shooting, finished with a crappy score.
Here is the cool part. I felt I was under pressure while I was shooting with my friends, who by the way are outstanding shots. I just couldn't compete. So, after we finished, I went back through about 25 of the targets by myself. I didn't look through the binoculars before I shot. I just walked up, judged the yardage, and shot like I was trying to kill the animal. I ended up with about 21 of those in the 10/11 and only 4 in the 8 ring. Very good for me. I think my panic is subsided when 1) I am only shooting for fun without the pressure of competing 2) I don't think about it too much 3) I am shooting like I am hunting vs trying to hit a ring. 
Anyway, I think from now on I will shoot with my friends and not keep score for myself. I do this for hunting, anyway. Not to be a pro.
Hope this helps other folks.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

I have had it for several years, both with a release and pin, and with bare bow. In fact, it began with bare bow. I have read a ton of stuff, and tried a bunch. Unclegus' comments resonate for sure. I am not sure if you can beat it. I do know a release guy who seems to have, and competes at a very high level.

I have used a back tension release aide to work on the high tech set up. It has helped a ton, but I think I will have to shoot it longer to tell if I ever really beat it.

My main problem evidences itself in the final stage by involuntary release (as opposed to freezing, etc.). As I understand it, the brain has learned that when the sight picture is "right" you have to let the arrow go. If you don't, on come the flinches.

So here is my question/hypothesis. With a back tension release, you are training your brain that the pin floating around the dot is not the final part of the shot sequence. The final stage is the pull through of the release aide, or at least so I understand it. Your brain eventually learns that floating the pin is normal, and not a signal to punch.

So......it seems like adding some final stage to the fingers release might make sense? In other words, you gain the sight picture, but somehow train your brain that there is another step that must follow before its time to release. I believe that is in essence what the "push pull" video attempts to teach.

I have no idea if it will work, but I am standing close to the bale, setting up the shot, and trying to make myself hold the sight picture to the count of 5; then I begin to pull through the shot. I am hoping it will eventually teach my brain that the execution of the pull through is the last stage.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

DDSHOOTER said:


> According to GRIV it's curable: Here's a link to that thread in the general section: I have been following his instruction for about a year now and I am starting to get the "hard wiring" rewired or as you say it under control. You really have to start over, thats hard to do when you been shooting as long as I have. dd
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=237527&highlight=target+panic


I hate to say it but until you start from scratch its will just keep coming back. dd


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

DDSHOOTER said:


> I hate to say it but until you start from scratch its will just keep coming back. dd


That is what I am in the process of doing , old habits are very hard to break , altho today , again , I saw some deffinate gains , a little more confidence and ever so slightly better control loosing the arrow


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

That's great. When I got to that point I started to gain more control every week. dd


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## sweet old bill (Apr 21, 2003)

Never

at 68 years young time is starting to run out on fixing this problem. Comes and goes just like the wind.

Some days can hold on the target and just do everthing right.

The next day it seems if you come close to the target the old TP jumps up and spits in your eye...


Bill


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## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

league championships tonite ,only finger flinger there , head to head shootdowns low 2 scores set each end, when I finally had to sit over 1/2 of the hook shooters were already watching , did mess up the end that took me out , had a couple 4s , the end before was 5 inside out Xs ...... kinda fun , had a couple shots that about made me change underwear , but overall not to bad of control , ....... fun again


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Now you can see how hard its been for me to take a year off from everything to just work on getting control. I think if you want it enough that its worth it in the end. Look, it took me 30 plus years it get this problem. So a couple of off season is worth it right. Just having fun and not sweat the big stuff. Its now getting to the point were I can give myself little task like relaxing the shooting fingers to trigger the shot and watching the arrow hit the spot, all at the same time the pin is floating around in the target. This is great for the form and you just want to keep repeating it over and over. Until the wife says its getting dark and time to eat. LOL. dd


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Here is something that I came up with to shoot in my spare time. The black mark in the middle indicates were to hold at the end of the tube at full draw with the right holding weight. A friend made one like it out of PVC tubing and D loop to learn a BT release. He put a knot in the Bungy to stop his draw, which let him pull thru the shot. dd


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