# Vane Popularity Shift



## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

Has anyone noticed a big trend away fro such vanes as the Wav toward WSWings, Eli???


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

No.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

I have been seeing that quite a bit. I think that it's because more companies are making spin vanes that rival the "official" spin wings in many ways. The reason I usually hear that people won't use spin wings and opt for a more traditional vane is the durability, but with Sitar/Sitar and Eli making such good products that are also durable as hell there isn't much reason that I can see for most people to continue using WAVs


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

I have to say, I hate fletching spin wings. So much easier to mess it up, they never give you enough tape for all the fletchings, they fall off easier, and they get damaged quicker. I would love to switch over forever because they do group tighter at 70m when you get them on there right, but I just hate fletching them too much to make the switch. I have 2 sets of eli vanes just sitting in my cabinet. Every once in awhile I will start fletching with them. I have never completed more than 3 arrows before I just lose my patience with them. I have probably thrown away as many as I have successfully put on.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Ten_Zen said:


> I have to say, I hate fletching spin wings. So much easier to mess it up, they never give you enough tape for all the fletchings, they fall off easier, and they get damaged quicker. I would love to switch over forever because they do group tighter at 70m when you get them on there right, but I just hate fletching them too much to make the switch. I have 2 sets of eli vanes just sitting in my cabinet. Every once in awhile I will start fletching with them. I have never completed more than 3 arrows before I just lose my patience with them. I have probably thrown away as many as I have successfully put on.


with spin wings, put the tape on the arrow, then put the vane on the tape. You can do them by eye and hand fairly easy once you do some. 

wit Eli vanes, use a clipboard to hold the vane down. Put the tape on the vane first. Then apply the vane with tape to the arrow. 

apply spin wings straight, apply Eli Vanes. 

stripe your arrow with straight lines. 

to apply Eli at offset, attach vane at nock end bottom of one line, then attach the top of the vane to the TOP end NEXT LINE OVER. This will give you use of both methods with one straight line. Eli vanes were a pain for me at first. I was so fast with spin wings, but once i used this method, now i am not bothered by fletching. 


and i was never aware that the AAE vanes were that popular. 


Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I see more Elivanes every year. Spin wings will still rule in popularity because a lot of archers and coaches are very set in their ways, and for full-time archers, refletching is a minor annoyance at best.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

chrstphr said:


> apply spin wings straight, apply Eli Vanes.
> 
> 
> Chris


should say, apply spin wings straight, apply Eli vanes at angle.


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## eagle man (Jun 7, 2011)

Chris this is what I do with Eli vanes....... I THINK I got this from John?.?. I put shield cut Eli on straight. I use shield cut up to 40 yards and then I switch to parabolic cut Eli's for distances over 40 yards. I do put the parabolic Eli's on just like you mentioned. I don't know if it is just in my head but I can shoot a tighter group at 40 yds with my shield cut Eli's than with the parabolic cut. The extra drag of the shield is a non factor for me at 40 yds. I really like the durability of the Eli vanes. 

Ted


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

WAV's have never been popular enough to say there is a shift away from them. Spin/curled type vanes have been overwhelmingly popular for a few decades now. As Spin Wings have been the dominant vane for these few decades, it might be better to ask: "Has there been a shift away from Spin Wings to other curled vane brands such as XS Wing, Eli Vanes, Gas Pro Vanes etc."


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## bruce_m (Jan 23, 2012)

Daughter uses spin wings and son uses Eli vanes..... I use Beiter Wing Holder for both.


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

XsWings are all the rage at the moment. Spin Wings are timeless.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I've been seeing fantastic results out of my P3 Elivanes with a 5-6 degree offset. Night and day difference vs. fletching them straight. My arrows with S3's are fletched straight, and are the standard all my other arrows have to meet, as I shot all my PB outdoor scores with them in 2012. So far, these P3's with the offset are right there with them.


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## DarrenHJA (Dec 27, 2014)

Ten_Zen said:


> I have to say, I hate fletching spin wings. So much easier to mess it up, they never give you enough tape for all the fletchings, they fall off easier, and they get damaged quicker. I would love to switch over forever because they do group tighter at 70m when you get them on there right, but I just hate fletching them too much to make the switch. I have 2 sets of eli vanes just sitting in my cabinet. Every once in awhile I will start fletching with them. I have never completed more than 3 arrows before I just lose my patience with them. I have probably thrown away as many as I have successfully put on.


It ain't that bad, all you need to do is get a drink, sit down then listen to music while putting on the fletchings. Took me an hour to get 12 arrows done with arrow wraps.


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## DarrenHJA (Dec 27, 2014)

I've been using gas pro vanes, I like the design. Plus I buy 3 different colors of the spin vanes and fletch my arrows with 3 colors


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## abbykristine (Jul 26, 2013)

I adore the Eli vanes. In all honesty, I haven't have any issues putting them on my arrows or anything afterwards. I had to replace one once, but only because the point of one arrow sliced through it. I don't think I'm going to go to a different vane any time soon, I just love these ones way too much.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

reflecting is time away form the bow, for this reason eli all the way, on the rare occasion one needs fixing due to being hit.


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## DarrenHJA (Dec 27, 2014)

I only shoot with two gas pro vanes on, so less worry and trouble for me when I need to change one of them


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

TER said:


> WAV's have never been popular enough to say there is a shift away from them. Spin/curled type vanes have been overwhelmingly popular for a few decades now. As Spin Wings have been the dominant vane for these few decades, it might be better to ask: "Has there been a shift away from Spin Wings to other curled vane brands such as XS Wing, Eli Vanes, Gas Pro Vanes etc."


Have to disagree with you on that. Just about every Elite archer has been seen shooting Wav Vanes over the past year or two and now I noticed how many of shooters I had seen shooting WSWings and Eli at the Az Cup.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

What elite archers other than Jake Kaminski have used WAV's? But I'm glad you agree with what I said about XS Wings and Eli Vanes.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I use GasPro. Did an extensive testing with them vs the Spin Wings I'd been shooting for several years prior to that - I couldn't see any grouping difference at all, and the GasPro's were more durable.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Bob Furman said:


> Have to disagree with you on that. Just about every Elite archer has been seen shooting Wav Vanes over the past year or two



I know the Koreans, Chinese Taipei, China, Italy, Mexico and Netherlands have not shot AAE waves. They shoot spin wings, Eli vanes etc. Who is shooting the AAE waves beside Jake. Brady switched from them to XS wings last year. 

Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Bob Furman said:


> Have to disagree with you on that. Just about every Elite archer has been seen shooting Wav Vanes over the past year or two and now I noticed how many of shooters I had seen shooting WSWings and Eli at the Az Cup.


Huh? Who? Even Brady dumped the Wav's pretty quickly.

Having said that, initial testing for my daughter this evening put the Wav's ahead of her S2 Elivanes, so she may be making the switch (and it wouldn't break my heart to never have to repair another vane on her arrows. LOL!)


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## rstgyx (Apr 13, 2013)

(Basing my statement on WA videos from the World Cup stages and final last year)

Spin wings, gas pro vanes and elivanes were the three more prominent 'spin vanes' used on the pro circuit. Towards the end of the year I only noticed Brady change to WAV Vanes for a period and then XS Wings in Lausanne. I think he has been shooting them since. OH has also started to shoot with XS wings but I'm not sure if he has continued.

I personally shot WAV vanes for about 6 months with my first set of BCF arrows and then switched to XSwings based on the shop owner's recommendation. I've tried Spin Wings and Kurly Vanes but they were way too fragile to use because I was so used to the stiffness of the XSwings. So far I have no reason to switch to any other type of 'spin vane' because the XSwings work well for me.

(Results may vary )


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## Sean.Magnusen (Aug 6, 2014)

chrstphr said:


> to apply Eli at offset, attach vane at nock end bottom of one line, then attach the top of the vane to the TOP end NEXT LINE OVER


Given a 1/4" diameter, if my math is correct, that would create about a 6 degree offset, is that correct? I see Limbwalker said that's about what his are as well, is that large of an offset common? The manufacturer recommendations are a straight placement with an "allowed" offset of 2 degrees; I'm curious why so many people seem to find a much higher offset is beneficial than what the manufacturer recommends - seems like the manufacturer would know their product the best...

On a related note, what distance are people using between the end of the vane and the nock groove? And do you measure to the end of the vane, or to the edge of where the tape will be (where the vane becomes visible)?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sean.Magnusen said:


> Given a 1/4" diameter, if my math is correct, that would create about a 6 degree offset, is that correct? I see Limbwalker said that's about what his are as well, is that large of an offset common? The manufacturer recommendations are a straight placement with an "allowed" offset of 2 degrees; I'm curious why so many people seem to find a much higher offset is beneficial than what the manufacturer recommends - seems like the manufacturer would know their product the best...
> 
> On a related note, what distance are people using between the end of the vane and the nock groove? And do you measure to the end of the vane, or to the edge of where the tape will be (where the vane becomes visible)?


That is correct. I'm not sure why the manufacturer of Elivanes would recommend fletching them straight. I see a significant improvement in grouping with them offset 5-6 degrees.

Last night, in calm conditions, I shot one practice end and then a 58, 56 and 56 at 70 with P3's at a 5 or 6 degree offset. I'm not changing a thing. 

I have mine about 1/4" ahead of the edge of the Beiter out-nock, which is another 3/4" inch or so from the nock groove. So, I'm guessing about 1" ahead of the groove.


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## thiessen3.14 (Sep 11, 2006)

So I'm interested in these things (Elivanes). On Lancaster's site they don't say how many come in a package. Anyone enlighten me?


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## vlesiv (Oct 20, 2013)

50 vanes come in the package. Colors are transparent by the way - not bright. I had these vanes - they are very durable. Switched to AAE WAV last summer, didn;t really notice any drops in my scores, but im just an average shooter, so, scores are not high anyways


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## Sosius (Feb 5, 2014)

Don't want to derail this thread, but since there has been discussion of how to apply Elivanes, I have a question. When I apply them, there is usually sticky residue on the "curled" side of the vane from the tape. This then sticks to the vanes on my other arrows and tears them or yanks them off. I may have just used the wrong tape. (In a fit of organization, I put all my vanes in a tackle box and separated them from their tapes.) Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, how do you deal with it?


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## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

I believe that the Eli Vanes are getting popular. Personally as an average shooter I do not see a difference in scores. Eli's can take a bit more abuse but also cost a bit more. I apply them as Chris had mentioned. Currently I am now back to my SW elites.


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## Ranger 50 (Mar 2, 2012)

When they are fletched, dust them with talcum powder and brush them off. Problem solved.



Sosius said:


> Don't want to derail this thread, but since there has been discussion of how to apply Elivanes, I have a question. When I apply them, there is usually sticky residue on the "curled" side of the vane from the tape. This then sticks to the vanes on my other arrows and tears them or yanks them off. I may have just used the wrong tape. (In a fit of organization, I put all my vanes in a tackle box and separated them from their tapes.) Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, how do you deal with it?


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

Ranger 50 said:


> When they are fletched, dust them with talcum powder and brush them off. Problem solved.


ye,p got this advice last year, problem solved


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

So, In actuality. If you are not shooting 90 meters and low poundage. IS there any real need to still shoot mylar type vanes?

Regards,

Tom


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## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

_to apply Eli at offset, attach vane at nock end bottom of one line, then attach the top of the vane to the TOP end NEXT LINE OVER_



Sean.Magnusen said:


> Given a 1/4" diameter, if my math is correct, that would create about a 6 degree offset, is that correct? )?


Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there 360 degrees in a circular diameter? If vanes are offset in this manner above, wouldn't that be 120 degree offset? BTW, this is the method, I had used with Eli Vanes.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

BobCo19-65 said:


> _to apply Eli at offset, attach vane at nock end bottom of one line, then attach the top of the vane to the TOP end NEXT LINE OVER_
> 
> 
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there 360 degrees in a circular diameter? If vanes are offset in this manner above, wouldn't that be 120 degree offset? BTW, this is the method, I had used with Eli Vanes.


You need to take the length of the vane into account...


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## thiessen3.14 (Sep 11, 2006)

BobCo19-65 said:


> _to apply Eli at offset, attach vane at nock end bottom of one line, then attach the top of the vane to the TOP end NEXT LINE OVER_
> 
> 
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there 360 degrees in a circular diameter? If vanes are offset in this manner above, wouldn't that be 120 degree offset? BTW, this is the method, I had used with Eli Vanes.


Yes, if you're observing the angle of the vane from the back (or front) of the arrow as it travels around the circumference of the shaft. In describing offset however, the angle for fletching offset generally means the (side view) angle of the vane base relative to the longitudinal axis of the arrow.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

massman said:


> So, In actuality. If you are not shooting 90 meters and low poundage. IS there any real need to still shoot mylar type vanes?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tom


Folks were shooting 90 meters with aluminum arrows and plastic vanes decades ago. It's entirely possible to shoot 90 (not that anyone does anymore) with plastic vanes. 

You also have to remember that the light weight of the mylar vane also causes you to need a slightly stiffer arrow, which is typically heavier, so the difference in weight usually isn't as much as you may think. 

John


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

John, My point exactly---I actually shy away from JOADS shooting mylar vane of any type. Usually durability is of prime concern so that plays directly into shooting normal vanes. As they do not have to shoot the mylars vane to get to the required distances the question then is "WHY" bother with the fragle mylar vanes except for vanity.

Regards,

Tom


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

massman said:


> John, My point exactly---I actually shy away from JOADS shooting mylar vane of any type. Usually durability is of prime concern so that plays directly into shooting normal vanes. As they do not have to shoot the mylars vane to get to the required distances the question then is "WHY" bother with the fragle mylar vanes except for vanity.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tom


I usually do the same thing. Not sure "vanity" is the reason so much as it is "follow the leader" and as long as they see the top archers shooting spin wings, you know most folks are going to want to shoot them too. 

I've only shot marginally better scores with Elivanes than plastic vanes. We're talking 341 vs. 336 (competition scores). But at the Olympic trials, those 5 points make a big difference. For most shooters, they are better off just using plastic vanes since that margin will close to zero at some point.


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## Sosius (Feb 5, 2014)

Ranger 50 said:


> When they are fletched, dust them with talcum powder and brush them off. Problem solved.


Thanks, Ranger 50!


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

massman said:


> John, My point exactly---I actually shy away from JOADS shooting mylar vane of any type. Usually durability is of prime concern so that plays directly into shooting normal vanes. As they do not have to shoot the mylars vane to get to the required distances the question then is "WHY" bother with the fragle mylar vanes except for vanity.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Tom


i tend to prefer my JOAD kids to shoot feathers as vanes outdoors from 30 to 50 meters. I find they do more for the kids, than the spin wings, small vanes etc. they are more forgiving, correct better, and take a beating if there is a clearance issue form too stiff a shaft. 

Chris


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

chrstphr said:


> i tend to prefer my JOAD kids to shoot feathers as vanes outdoors from 30 to 50 meters. I find they do more for the kids, than the spin wings, small vanes etc. they are more forgiving, correct better, and take a beating if there is a clearance issue form too stiff a shaft.
> 
> Chris


A veteran move right there Chris.  I agree on all counts, but it's hard to get folks off the "vane" mindset sometimes. 

My daughter shot 1214 Jazz fletched with 2" feathers until she had already earned her first 50M pin. 22# at 22" DL. LOL!


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Agree Chris, especially when using aluminum shafts. I was referring to when shooting smaller diameter carbon shafts. A 2" normal vane seem to work and stand up to JOAD abuse better than Mylar vanes.

My point about mylar vanes is that a normal adult shooter male or female can easily reach 70 meters shooting small carbon shafts with normal vanes with 28 or more pounds on your fingers. No need to shoot Mylar vanes. Unless they can prove that the mylay vane will produce better scoring.

Regrads 

Tom


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

My JOAD kids also shoot the medallion XR carbon shafts as well as alluminum. They fly great with feathers as vanes. 

I see nothing wrong with feathers on carbon or alluminum. Small vanes are not as forgiving at low poundages like feathers.


Chris


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## Ranger 50 (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm fletching a set of VAP V-1's with Eli Vanes and the 6 degree offset today. I'll let you know my results after a league shoot tonight.


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