# NY Bowhunters push for early start to season



## VA2 (Mar 26, 2007)

By Steve Piatt
Editor
Thursday, February 7, 2008 3:06 PM CST
Bloomfield, N.Y. - A statewide advocacy group for bowhunters is launching a campaign to extend the archery season via an earlier start in both the Northern and Southern zones.

New York Bowhunters, Inc., leaders say they have launched a letter-writing campaign to DEC and have also been talking with department officials about potential season alterations.

“We'll be losing seven days this season, and that's pretty significant,” New York Bowhunters President Gary Socola said. “The regular and muzzleloader deer seasons are fixed in terms of length; it's only the archery season that fluctuates.”

Because Nov. 1, 2008, falls on a Saturday, the Southern Zone archery season will end on Nov. 14 this year - a full week earlier than normal.

That's because the Southern Zone firearms deer season is set to begin on the “third Saturday of November” and run for 23 days. The 2008 Southern Zone firearms kickoff begins as early as possible by the calendar this year.

DEC officials said previously they may revisit the issue but there are currently no plans to change season dates.

“We don't want to be adversarial with anybody,” Socola said, “and we talk with DEC all the time. One of our regional reps actually had a face-to-face meeting with (DEC Commissioner) Pete Grannis a couple of months ago. He seemed very surprised that we were losing any hunting time at all.”

Bowhunters in the Southern Zone were already upset that, when the DEC moved its traditional firearms kickoff from a Monday to Saturday, they lost a weekend of prime time bowhunting at the tail end of the archery season - often during the peak of the rut.

Under the previous archery season setup, Southern Zone bowhunters had a whitetail season that averaged 35 days, with a maximum of 38. That has now slipped to an average of 33, with 28-day seasons occurring in years when the first Saturday in November falls on Nov. 1-2.

A form letter New York Bowhunters, Inc., members - which number anywhere from 2,500-4,000 statewide, according to Socola - are urged to send to Grannis asks for an Oct. 1 opener in the Southern Zone and a Sept. 1 opener in the Northern Zone “to compensate for this loss of hunting opportunity, while allowing additional hunting time for young hunters, women and the physically challenged during more ideal, warmer weather conditions.”

The letter also contends the early opening date would assist DEC in its efforts to manage the whitetail herd through the harvest of does. “Antlerless deer are still in their early-season feeding patterns at the beginning of October, thus allowing hunters an advantage to patterning their movements,” the letter read.

“The herd can certainly withstand an Oct. 1 opener,” Socola said. “It would be a win-win situation; there are a lot of advantages to it.”

The Northern Zone season currently opens in late September to archers who have a leftover tag from the previous season. Otherwise, the season opens Oct. 1.

“We've always advocated a Sept. 1 opener in the Northern Zone,” Socola said.


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## Buckblood (Jun 12, 2006)

I would like to see more bow time come from the gun season, not opening earlier. And I gun hunt too.


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## VA2 (Mar 26, 2007)

“The herd can certainly withstand an Oct. 1 opener,” Socola said. 

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this guy serious???????? In my area the should close the deer season for a year or two not make it longer...........


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

who knows what will happen. all i know i was just informed that ny will have a try a new goose season starting march 1st thru the 10th to thin the population down! i like to know what the bag limit will be for that! time to shoot more sky carp!!!!!!:tongue:


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## Tax Lawyer (Feb 5, 2003)

Buckblood said:


> I would like to see more bow time come from the gun season, not opening earlier. And I gun hunt too.


+1


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## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

Shouldnt this be in the legislation forum?


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## shoot low (Jan 24, 2006)

Open Bow earlier, earn a buck program, 1 buck limit, 5 day shotgun season. Great hunting.


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## shoot low (Jan 24, 2006)

Campo said:


> Shouldnt this be in the legislation forum?


 Are you really that much of a dork?


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## SIR SHOOTS ALOT (Jun 12, 2005)

VA2 said:


> “The herd can certainly withstand an Oct. 1 opener,” Socola said.
> 
> WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this guy serious???????? In my area the should close the deer season for a year or two not make it longer...........


100% AGREE!!!!!!!


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## bowhuntnsteve (Jul 1, 2006)

shoot low said:


> Open Bow earlier, earn a buck program, 1 buck limit, 5 day shotgun season. Great hunting.


I dunno about the EAB because I used to live in Wisconsin, but I like how Ohio, Illinois, and Iowa run there gun seasons. Who knows now with the counties they are letting hunt with rifles if it will become a statewide option. I rather it stay slug gun only. I would like to see an antler restriction. The bucks I see & pass up in PA are gettin plowed by the guys on the NY line. Its tougher hunting a stateline, but least I have permission to hunt both sides.
Just my $0.02 worth..


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## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

Obviously, you didn't read the forum rules about name calling.

Then again, this is the kind of thing you would expect from a grade schooler.

Learn the rules amigo and move on. :angry7:



shoot low said:


> Are you really that much of a dork?


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

Be careful what you ask for - Gun hunters outnumber us by at least 2 to 1. No way will any attempts to take away gun days be tolerated - probably result in a backlash hurting us even more.

Not all areas have a population to support EAB - just as not all areas need reduced harvest as well. 

AR - same thing. There may be some areas that would see a short term "benefit", but much of the state would not and most hunters oppose them - especially statewide with no biological need having been proven and established. 

Want more bucks? Push for the tagging of buttons as bucks - 1/3 of the doe take every year is actually the youngest bucks. Saving these would give more bucks a chance to get older then any misguided points/side restriction.

Steve


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## alwayslookin (May 28, 2003)

*Said it before.....*

Southern Zone should be archery Oct 1 thru the Fri before Thanksgiving.
Gun should be the Sat before Thanksgiving thru the Sun after Thanksgiving.
One Buck per License year.
License yr should start Sept 1 not Oct 1.....eliminates double dipping in my proposal using North zone season on last yrs tag.
ML season should be after gun....7 days.
Late bow til Dec 31st.
North Zone bow should be 9/15 thro 10/?, a buck in Nzone is your buck for the yr., may need special seasons on the Western edge.....it is totally different than the Central ADK's, and the Eastern counties.

This gives the gun hunters 2 weekends and a holiday to hunt, that encompass the highest days of statistical harvest and participation, and generally, after the peak breeding season. They lose very little, and would still have ML right after if they need to hunt with a firearm.

They also need to delineate Private land antlreless tags from Public land antlerless tags........most of the public land gets way too much pressure to allow a free for all for those with a buck tag and a DMP. While many private landholders can not shoot what they need to (not statewide....just in a few areas)


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## archery_hunter (Jan 25, 2004)

alwayslookin said:


> Southern Zone should be archery Oct 1 thru the Fri before Thanksgiving.
> Gun should be the Sat before Thanksgiving thru the Sun after Thanksgiving.
> One Buck per License year.
> License yr should start Sept 1 not Oct 1.....eliminates double dipping in my proposal using North zone season on last yrs tag.
> ...


I second all of that +1. But try and convince people of this is another story.
If only there could be a season for real hunters, and a late season for arm chair hunters.

Alwayslookin' plan would increase deer numbers as well as make NYS a true trophy buck hot spot. Hence NR license sales would increase, making up the difference in resident license sales loses of recent years.

NYS has the genetics, food and cover to equal the best Mid west states. The only reason we don't have LARGE NUMBERS of trophy class animals (140" and better) is because of the long gun season during the rut, and gun hunters shooting multiple small bucks to brag they shot 5 bucks in a year. At the same time never even thinking to pass up on small bucks after their first, and shoot a damn doe. Makes no sense.
DEC should regulate buck take and shorten gun season. At the very least gun an antler restiction after the first buck! But it can never be accomplished with the mind set in NYS.
Thats why my hunting in NYS is limited to Westchester Cty only! Thats why I can routinely harvest mature deer, AND HARVEST DOES as needed. Oh if only the droves could see what NYS could be if they simply tried!


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## josh s. (Feb 9, 2008)

I have heard alot of discussion on this topic all over the place lately. I think New York is deffinatly on the verge of getting somewhere but just can't figure out how to shift this into first gear. First things first, the gun season is way to long. I don't care who wants to argue this but it is a fact none the less. My own opinion on the archery season is that it does deserve to be longer for alot of reasons. First and foremost, it is alot harder to harvest a deer with a bow. The time put into archery hunting in the off season and the money invested in equipment all adds up to a short time to attempt to harvest a deer. I gun hunt as well and the time it takes to sight in with gun is nothing compared to the compound. The second reason is that archery hunters are allready getting the low end of the deal. In my area, if they were to make archery season start Oct. 1 then that would be a great addition but not a sure bet I would harvest a deer. Remember that you still have to do the difficult task of putting everything together regardless of how much ''extra'' time you have. I used to love gun season until I harvested my first deer with a bow. I now wish they would lower it to a week at the most and have a late bow season. Once gun season starts the season is pretty much done in my area. 

As far as antler restrictions go, anything more than what New York has in place now would be a benifit. I have started QDM on my uncles property but it is connected to other land where those hunters simply don't care. I often think they hunt just to get it over with. As if someone is forcing them to do it. I am not one to judge another hunter for taking a young buck but when the potential for nice deer is there it is frustrating. A hunter I know told me once that a trophy is a trophy no matter how many points. Now that 4 point sits in a box with all his 4 and 6 point cousins or brothers collecting dust. If that 4 point lived 3 more years and turned into a 130 to 150 class deer where would it be? Probley on his wall and being bragged about anytime someone looked at it. The bottom line is that most people don't have the patience for the sport of hunting. They see brown and start thinking about taking the safety off, never mind what that deer might be. A law would make this permanent and once those younger deer started to reach 3 or 4 years of age, I don't think you would hear that once stubborn hunter complain because he would too busy telling the stroy of the nice buck he just harvested.


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## VA2 (Mar 26, 2007)

I think that New York Bowhunters, Inc is making a big mistake on this one. This would open the door for Crossbows if they start the season on Oct 1.


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## archery_hunter (Jan 25, 2004)

*A lot of good points--but also*



josh s. said:


> I have heard alot of discussion on this topic all over the place lately. I think New York is deffinatly on the verge of getting somewhere but just can't figure out how to shift this into first gear. First things first, the gun season is way to long. I don't care who wants to argue this but it is a fact none the less. My own opinion on the archery season is that it does deserve to be longer for alot of reasons. First and foremost, it is alot harder to harvest a deer with a bow. The time put into archery hunting in the off season and the money invested in equipment all adds up to a short time to attempt to harvest a deer. I gun hunt as well and the time it takes to sight in with gun is nothing compared to the compound. The second reason is that archery hunters are allready getting the low end of the deal. In my area, if they were to make archery season start Oct. 1 then that would be a great addition but not a sure bet I would harvest a deer. Remember that you still have to do the difficult task of putting everything together regardless of how much ''extra'' time you have. I used to love gun season until I harvested my first deer with a bow. I now wish they would lower it to a week at the most and have a late bow season. Once gun season starts the season is pretty much done in my area.
> 
> As far as antler restrictions go, anything more than what New York has in place now would be a benifit. I have started QDM on my uncles property but it is connected to other land where those hunters simply don't care. I often think they hunt just to get it over with. As if someone is forcing them to do it. I am not one to judge another hunter for taking a young buck but when the potential for nice deer is there it is frustrating. A hunter I know told me once that a trophy is a trophy no matter how many points. Now that 4 point sits in a box with all his 4 and 6 point cousins or brothers collecting dust. If that 4 point lived 3 more years and turned into a 130 to 150 class deer where would it be? Probley on his wall and being bragged about anytime someone looked at it. The bottom line is that most people don't have the patience for the sport of hunting. They see brown and start thinking about taking the safety off, never mind what that deer might be. A law would make this permanent and once those younger deer started to reach 3 or 4 years of age, I don't think you would hear that once stubborn hunter complain because he would too busy telling the stroy of the nice buck he just harvested.


Antler restriction would be great, what would be more feasibale with a lot of NY hunters, is banning the harvest of multiple immature bucks in a season

More often than I like to see/hear, hunters are bragging about how many bucks they sht in any given year. When questioned on specifics, often times you hear that the first buck was a 4 pointer, and the 3rd or 4th was a spike. Again, I just don't get the mentality anymore. Braggin about how many bucks "killed" is hard enough to swallow, but when the stories repeatedly involve multiple yearling and younger bucks, I just can't take it anymore.

SHOOT A DOE for God's sake! Who care how many bucks you "killed". I just don't see any grat accomlishment in bragging about killing multiple immature bucks. 

Although I spend over 200 days a field annually scouting, hangin stands and hunting, I harvest does and pass on countless male & female deer annually. But I still find it so hard to imagine anyone sitting still, moving still and paying any form of attention while engaged in hunting not harvesting a deer. Anywhere in the state, let alone with a rifle/firearm!

I really do not mean to come off like I am putting anyone down, but it's about time that the serious minded hunters of NY benefit and have the say as to what transpires in the NY big game seasons. We put the time in, and spend the most money, so, a QDM policy should be placed in effect state wide. Which would include antler restrictions, longer archery seasons, shorter gun season and a gun season not during the rut (begining on thanksgiving), and something on the lines of a earn a buck program or one mature (3pts or better on one side) buck per calander year.

The 3pts on one side is in effect already in certain DMU's in NY, and from what I hear it's working fine. Now just shorten the gun season!

If auto insurance lobyists are concerned, then lobby for the earn a buck in certain DMU's with higher deer numbers based on proven historic biological studies. Ask any whitetail deer farmer how many does a buck can breed in various age classes and it does not take a rocket scientist to know that reducing the does, within reason, allows for good deer management (in certain DMU's).

But it's all futile, because in over 35+ Yrs of being a field and hearing the droves complain, NY is not anytime son going to change it's policies to benefit QDM or the serious minded hunter.

Again, that's why I hunt in CT, Westchester NY, and the Mid W


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

> More often than I like to see/hear, hunters are bragging about how many bucks they sht in any given year. When questioned on specifics, often times you hear that the first buck was a 4 pointer, and the 3rd or 4th was a spike.


In most, if not all of NY, you have a 2 buck limit if you have an archery/mz tag in addition to the Reg BG lisence. I believe the sucess rate on 1st bucks is less then 20% - few of these take a 2nd. If a hunter is taking a 3 and 4th buck, they are doing it illegaly and more restrictions will have no effect on them.




> Again, I just don't get the mentality anymore. Braggin about how many bucks "killed" is hard enough to swallow, but when the stories repeatedly involve multiple yearling and younger bucks, I just can't take it anymore.


See above.



> SHOOT A DOE for God's sake! Who care how many bucks you "killed". I just don't see any grat accomlishment in bragging about killing multiple immature bucks.


Most hunters I know in central and western NY do shoot does if they have tags. Many gun only hunters did not get dmp's this year. Hard to shoot a doe without one.

And those that are shooting "does" are shooting BIG NUMBERS of immature bucks - nearly 1/3 of the anterless deer taken in the state are button bucks! 
Want more bucks? Protect these by requiring they are tagged with a buck tag - make antlerless tags does only.




> I really do not mean to come off like I am putting anyone down, but it's about time that the serious minded hunters of NY benefit and have the say as to what transpires in the NY big game seasons. We put the time in, and spend the most money, so, a QDM policy should be placed in effect state wide.


You may not mean it, but it does come across that way a bit. Fact is the largest majority of hunters are what may be considered casual - their support is needed to maintain what seasons we have. You are suggesting the majority should have their seasons and methods changed to suit what you, a "serious" hunter ,deems is the right way to hunt. The "serious" hunter may spend more per person then the casual, but they spend the most total and if we chase them and their support away, hunting will soon be a memory.

Check the bi -weekly NYS Sportmans newspaper - every issue has pictures of a lot of good to great bucks taken thru out NY. And I'm sure these represent only a small number of those taken. Fact is, there are already good numbers of good bucks in NY - but not so many they are not special and are still a challange to locate and hunt. 

Steve


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## josh s. (Feb 9, 2008)

I hate to argue with fellow hunters, so this sounds rude, thats not the intent. First, DMP's were not a problem this year. In fact, if you look in the magazine that came with your license you will see that tags give out on first and second choices were high and high with occasional high and medium. I do agree that illegal hunters are not going to change and with NY DEC getting less money this year, I somehow do not see more inforcment. 

I would like people that are still reading these posts to please take a second to post back on this subject. How many of you has sent in a letter asking for an early season? Furthermore, do you think it will make any difference. The reason asking for this is because I read an article in the paper the other day that explained how the season is allready set in stone. That these issues were brought up in 2005 when they first changed the shotgun opener to sat..
It also states the state is making it up by adding days in the late season. After three weeks of gun that is just rediculous. Immposible......no but it would be very difficult to harvest a deer that late with a bow considering most of the deer by then are in the nocturnal state and heading out to yard up for the winter. Who knows, maybe NY is trying to drive out hunters, all of these brilliant plans they think of, they might succeed in no time at all.


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## VA2 (Mar 26, 2007)

Josh S


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## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

> Who knows, maybe NY is trying to drive out hunters, all of these brilliant plans they think of, they might succeed in no time at all.


I'm sure that is their sole reason for anything you do not agree with.

Reread the DMP allocations again.
There where many areas where you stood a very good chance of no doe/button buck tags. I put in for 7j 1st and 7h 2nd - got the 1st - same for the last 5 years. So the odds are not a guarentee either.

Steve


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## josh s. (Feb 9, 2008)

Ok, so I looked and yes you are right. I was looking more in our area, as I am only a couple miles from you. (Scipio) I have got both for he past three years and it seems like everyone I know gets both also. Just going on what I see which is obviously not the same as the rest of NY. My last sentance is probley just my frustration.....it just seems with all the problems and issues they don't resolve them according to what would be best for the deer herd.


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## greenboy (Sep 21, 2005)

well as a bowhunter for 30 years in N.Y. THIS STATE IS ON THE WAY DOWN... BECAUSE---they cannot lower the hunting age to bring young people in to the outdoors. crossbow for handycaped, or guys that are 50 years old that have health problems are left out hunting even though they have been hunting 30 years or better.who cares there old... guys shooting button bucks on do tags,farm permitts that have mass nite shooting, food bank which the state love saveing tax payers $$$,on health care cost.to many doe permitts,less land access more hunter on state land.brown it goes down or the other guys qdm stuff WERE IS IT GOING TO END... NYB ASS. WILL NEVER SPEAK FOR ME.... i will take bow season what ever it is, i will buy a big game,bow stamp no more suppersportman if i go for a doe tag get 1 i will not use it like this year or give it away this way i now there 1 doe on my road that left alive


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## baldntatted (Jan 25, 2006)

Yeah i know they think they should justify what the rest of the bow hunters in NYS should do i think it's garbage and i know i was born and raised in NY and moved to Tn where the hunting is much better and they have liberal bag limits 136 a year per hunter. in certain counties.


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## VA2 (Mar 26, 2007)

ttt


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