# New to archery, loving it! Recurve bow suggestions?



## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Hi all. Some people in another thread suggested posting this here, because they said this forum had a majority of recurve archers, and some amazing ones even, among you. 

We started learning archery over the summer, took a basic class at the local range, and have been renting their recurves and arrows just about weekly, and shooting, ever since. We LOVE it.

So now we want to get bows and arrows of our own, being we plan on this being a long term enjoyable hobby for us. We're not into hunting, but would like to get as good, and as long a distance at target shooting as we can. Right now with the rental stuff and some crummy gloves, we're only shooting at 10 yards, but I found out about the Cavalier Elite tabs and am planning on a couple of those soon, when we get our own bows.

We plan on eventually getting into recurves, but if we each get an Infinite Edge, for example, it will be some pretty big bucks and we're low income, barely paying the bills as it is, and trying to pay down some debt.

But after just seeing some video of some amazing Olympics 2013 shooting by a Korean archer, at about 229 feet, we were so "wowwed" by it that we're thinking of starting with recurves, and getting really good with them, and then maybe getting into the compounds next year, in summer or fall.

So what would you recommend for a couple of affordable recurves for us to check out? We don't want to spend a lot but it would be nice if they could take some accessories, like stabilizers, clickers, and decent sights. "Most bang for the buck" kinds of bows? ( kinda like the Infinite Edge bows are, for compounds )

Thanks!


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Samick Polaris, or Samick Sage. Both are great beginner recurves and can be fitted to be a full on Olympic rig. However, if you want to make it one, there is a small modification that is recommended so the arrow sits on the bow correctly. I learned that the hard way.


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

If you can, try to get an ILF riser due to it will make your life easier when it's time to upgrade your limbs. How much are you willingly to spend though? If money is tight I suggest getting a Cartel Fantom riser http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cartel-fantom-25-recurve-riser.html and Samick Privilege limbs. http://www.lancasterarchery.com/salesperson/result/?q=samick+privilige+limbs


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## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

go with polaris or sage (heck if you want a longer bow go with the journey) and polaris limbs or sage / journey limbs (watch the AMO, as journey is longer the bow string length <amo is a few in shorter than the bow's total length). they can be used for any style (even turkish or other eastern archery but one has to get opposite hand bow due to thumbring-age), and are pretty strong / durable and the bolt style (as opposed to ILF) is less finicky and tougher, perfect for beginners like us.

the sage has a shelf (have to line it with rug or leather or something) or get a sticky on arrow rest. 3 rivers archery has some you tube videos on how to attach rests on a recurve. 

best bang for your buck also . . .

and if you want to go olympic, you easily find a olympic riser that can tank (take) a full olympic set up or if you want to go compound . . .


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Mamabear -

If you are at all serious about this type of shooting, please don't waste your money on the Sage or Polaris. 
While they can be serviceable, you will need to or at least want to upgrade in short order. You'd be better off long term with decent/entry level ILF rigs. 
And you be surprised at how far those entry level rigs can take you. 

Here's a primer on recurve equipment:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1588147&page=3&p=1068720905#post1068720905
Post #1 is for traditional bows and post #17 is for Olympic bows. 

Your budget is what it is, and that's gets the final vote. 
I would just weigh the options and make the best choice you you and yours.

Viper1 out.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

TwilightSea said:


> If you can, try to get an ILF riser due to it will make your life easier when it's time to upgrade your limbs. How much are you willingly to spend though? If money is tight I suggest getting a Cartel Fantom riser http://www.lancasterarchery.com/cartel-fantom-25-recurve-riser.html and Samick Privilege limbs. http://www.lancasterarchery.com/salesperson/result/?q=samick+privilige+limbs


OK, I'm a complete newbie, but it looks like I just attach the limbs to the riser. Then I can get different pull weight limbs later?


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

arrowyn said:


> go with polaris or sage (heck if you want a longer bow go with the journey) and polaris limbs or sage / journey limbs (watch the AMO, as journey is longer the bow string length <amo is a few in shorter than the bow's total length). they can be used for any style (even turkish or other eastern archery but one has to get opposite hand bow due to thumbring-age), and are pretty strong / durable and the bolt style (as opposed to ILF) is less finicky and tougher, perfect for beginners like us.
> 
> the sage has a shelf (have to line it with rug or leather or something) or get a sticky on arrow rest. 3 rivers archery has some you tube videos on how to attach rests on a recurve.
> 
> ...


Yeah like I said, we're low income, so $399 for a riser is way too steep. We could get into the Infinite Edge compound for $350 for the whole package. Have no idea what some of the terms are that you're mentioning, need to learn them...


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Viper1 said:


> Mamabear -
> 
> If you are at all serious about this type of shooting, please don't waste your money on the Sage or Polaris.
> While they can be serviceable, you will need to or at least want to upgrade in short order. You'd be better off long term with decent/entry level ILF rigs.
> ...


Yeah, kind of a contradiction between not wasting our money and having enough of it. We're waiting on the Infinite Edge recurves, because they're $350 each and there are two of us, so $700 plus arrows. Understood we could do some great shooting for maybe half that, with recurves.

As far as "serious", we seriously want to enjoy shooting, may never become Olympic class shooters, AND are low income so our money is limited for now.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

You can do much better 350.00 for an ILF rig. Especially if you are willing to go used and are patient.


KAP Axiom (older T Rex) Risers can be had for less than 90.00 
New entry level limbs are about 85.00 (axiom) or ask around. 
All you really need besides those are an arrow rest (2.50) string (15.00).

to get started you can do a lot with what's around your house. Then add on as budget allows. 

sight = Foam glued to the riser and a single stick pin.
nock point, = some dental floss and a couple of overhand knots.
Quiver, = old beat up pair of jeans you were about to toss. Cut the leg off, sew up one end.. If you want a "pocket" to put stuff in, Cut them down the middle and sew them up that way.
Finger sling= shoe lace.

Stabilizer may be a bit harder but not necessary to get started.

Since you have access to club gear for now, I would be patient and see what you can put together. 

Arrows Carbon Impact Super clubs are about 80.00 a doz. you really only need 6 to get started if you are shooting indoors.

DC


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

MamaBear said:


> Yeah, kind of a contradiction between not wasting our money and having enough of it. We're waiting on the Infinite Edge recurves, because they're $350 each and there are two of us, so $700 plus arrows. Understood we could do some great shooting for maybe half that, with recurves.
> 
> As far as "serious", we seriously want to enjoy shooting, may never become Olympic class shooters, AND are low income so our money is limited for now.


You can put together a recurve for about $350 for a good one. That gets you a 25" riser and some entry-level limbs.

Here is an idea though:
Are you both fairly close in height and strength?

-Grant


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

You didn't mention LH or RH

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2134783

Read my sticky (in my sig) 

and provide us with a little more on your demographics.

DC


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

We're both RH. I'm about 6' tall and she's about 5'10. She likes about a 15 lb pull because she's handicapped and has a hard time standing for long, and back problems too. I'm ok with a 20-25 LB pull. Her draw length is about 25", we were told at the range, and mine about 26". They said we should go for 3" less arrow length than that.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

MamaBear said:


> We're both RH. I'm about 6' tall and she's about 5'10. She likes about a 15 lb pull because she's handicapped and has a hard time standing for long, and back problems too. I'm ok with a 20-25 LB pull. Her draw length is about 25", we were told at the range, and mine about 26". They said we should go for 3" less arrow length than that.


Are you sure about that? 3" longer makes more sense.

Handicapped and strength restrictions makes for different recommendations. Please read my sticky and provide as much info as you can re demographics,..

DC


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Found this: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/salesperson/result/?q=samick+privilige+limbs

Looks like a nice affordable ILF riser and limbs. They appear to tell me the correct sizes at http://www.discoverarchery.org/equipment/the-recurve-bow-what-you-need-to-know/
But if I want a 64" bow length, how do I figure that with the 23" riser and limb lengths? Simple addition?


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## valloq (Feb 10, 2013)

25" riser + medium limbs = 68" Bow.
25" riser + short limbs = 66" bow.

So to get a 64", you'd go with a 23" riser + short limbs.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

you should consider the SF axiom+ as well. for around $165 you get a 25" ilf riser, limbs, button and magnetic rest


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Lancaster has the Axiom + (25") riser for 150.00. As mentioned it comes with a rest and plunger but no limbs. (Sorry fluke, prices have gone up over the past few months  )
But as mentioned if you are patient, you can probably score a used one for a lot less.

Limbs are about 80.00 for decent limbs..

If you are willing to wait but want to buy new.
http://alternativess.com 

has the Axiom + riser for 95.00
Axiom + limbs for 65.00
and you would need to pay for shipping as well as wait for delivery from the UK but it is a great value..

re DL.

I would think your 26" DL is suspect unless you have really short arms for your height... Most people that tall have a 28-29+" DL

DL should be measured using a light weight bow and a long arrow. Then drawing back to your anchor and have someone mark your arrow where it touches the plunger hole or measure to the deepest point of the grip. Then add 1.75"


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

MamaBear - 

How were you told at the range?
As D said, if it wasn't with a draw check bow and graduated arrow (or a reasonable facsimile), it's can be next to meaningless. 
At 6' tall, while not impossible, a 26" draw length is highly unlikely. 

Every time I have a pro shop guy measure me with a tape measure or chart, I keep getting told I need a 26" arrow. (I do it to piss them off - nasty habit of mine...)
Oddly enough, my 29" arrows are perfect clicker length to the back of the riser - go figure. 

At 6' tall and an average build, assuming a 29" + DL, a 25" riser + long limbs is usually warranted.
Your wife is harder to guesstimate, but a 27" - 28" draw wouldn't be out of line, again, assuming an average build. 
That would mean a 25" riser and medium limbs or a 23" riser and longs. 

Understand the guesstimate part, you really need to find a pro shop or instructor who knows how to do a proper DL check.

Viper1 out.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

What kind of handicap does your wife have?

Does it affect upper body strength? if so it may make sense to get a wood handled bow like the polaris or Ragim, or even the plastic Rolan.

While they are not "high end" by any stretch of the imagination, they will shoot fairly well and are WAY lighter in mass weight than any entry level ILF riser. To get into light mass weight ILF risers you would be looking at carbon which are very expensive.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> Are you sure about that? 3" longer makes more sense.
> 
> Handicapped and strength restrictions makes for different recommendations. Please read my sticky and provide as much info as you can re demographics,..
> 
> DC


There's a site at http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_1.htm that I need to read through. Looks good.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Viper1 said:


> MamaBear -
> 
> How were you told at the range?
> As D said, if it wasn't with a draw check bow and graduated arrow (or a reasonable facsimile), it's can be next to meaningless.
> ...


Yeah, I was told by the range lady, who checked us, but not, I suppose, a pro shop. We're both women, by the way.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> What kind of handicap does your wife have?
> 
> Does it affect upper body strength? if so it may make sense to get a wood handled bow like the polaris or Ragim, or even the plastic Rolan.
> 
> While they are not "high end" by any stretch of the imagination, they will shoot fairly well and are WAY lighter in mass weight than any entry level ILF riser. To get into light mass weight ILF risers you would be looking at carbon which are very expensive.


Never said "wife".  She has RSD in her legs, a pain syndrome. She's been walking on the balls of her feet for years ( I call her a meerkat ) and has back problems from it, but won't stop it.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

MamaBear said:


> Never said "wife".  She has RSD in her legs, a pain syndrome. She's been walking on the balls of her feet for years ( I call her a meerkat ) and has back problems from it, but won't stop it.


My apologies for coming to that conclusion.

RSD in lower extremities should still allow for relatively good upper body strength. If you were thinking compound already and have shot them, then an ILF riser may be manageable.

Teaching her to shoot while supported by a stool might be something to consider but I digress..

Again if you didn't measure your DL using method Viper1 or I did. Then I suggest you do so.

At the very least, grab a yard stick, hold the end of the yard stick between your fingers like you were "pinching" an arrow nock, and rest the other end of the yard stick on your "bow hand" while mimicking holding a bow, and mimick a draw and anchor. Have someone look at where on the yard stick, the web of your hand is. This will get you reliably closer than any of the "wingspan" calculations. It's not as good as the drawing a graduated arrow with a measuring light weight bow but it's better than nothing.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Yeah no problem, and thanks! 

As far as compounds, no neither of us has ever shot one, but the main reason for starting out in recurves, is money savings. If we wind up paying $350 a bow total, for recurves, there's no savings over an Infinite Edge, and then it becomes debatable whether we should just start with compounds.


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

MamaBear said:


> and then it becomes debatable whether we should just start with compounds.


Don't let them lure you to the dark side! :laugh: 
jk


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

What kind of bows were you shooting at the range? How many times have you been there to shoot?

FYI the website you found is more geared towards compound shooters. The wingspan measurement that they use I have found never works for me either. (see viper's comment) I have done exactly what he does at proshops just to see what they would tell me to get. Almost always measured by them, I am told 26-27" DL and that these "500 or 600 arrows will be perfect for you". FYI My AMO DL is 29.5" and my arrows need to be a minimum of 28" if I don't want to impale my bow hand. For my 22 lb recurve bow that I hold 24lbs on my fingers. My arrows need to be around 1400 spine.

Reading some of your past comments, It almost sounds like you are not interested in being "serious" as in wanting to be able to shoot 70 meter recreational tournaments. But maybe you really enjoy the process of shooting and hearing that satisfying thunk of the arrow striking the target.. Obviously you don't want to spend a fortune on gear. for 400.00 from Alt Services you could probably purchase 2 axiom setup's with strings.. If you go with Carbon Impact super club arrows (spine to be determined) from Lancaster at 75.00 a dozen. You can probably get away with 6 each at least for the next few months until outdoor season starts up. 

Forget about the sight/stabilizer etc.. until you have begun to put up some tight groups of arrows. Hook up with a club if there is one near you. And just enjoy the shooting for now.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

dchan: my bad, i forgot to include shipping

why not have a look at merlin's packages? i don't know how much the shipping will cost you however http://www.merlinarchery.co.uk/bows/archery-sets-kits/archery-kits-for-adults.html

they also have family packages which include 2 bows and accessories


edit: shipping is £49 for the packages


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Anyone know of any great Black Friday sales on Fantom Risers and Axiom limbs for them?


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

This company has some good prices, I see they have free shipping and good selection of risers and limbs.
http://www.archerytorque.com/index.php?route=common/home


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Black Friday sale,http://www.lancasterarchery.com/?trk_msg=J7C2I7PK050KV3T3MK8DMOJNP8&trk_contact=SEKLTLOFD542AMD3LR7N27CPC4&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Shop+Early+Top&utm_campaign=StandardEmailMarketing&utm_content=20131129BlackFriday


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> Reading some of your past comments, It almost sounds like you are not interested in being "serious" as in wanting to be able to shoot 70 meter recreational tournaments.


We're not "serious" unless we want to do that? Some people think we're not "serious" if we don't want to spend $1200 a bow. Where do people get this, that we're not "serious" unless we'd do what they'd do and have the money to?

Frankly, we're not experienced enough to know what "serious" is yet, and certainly not to conform to anyone else's ideas of what it should be. 

We've been to the range for about an hour every week, since mid summer and are tired of renting those recurves and fiberglass arrows.


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## Eliteonly (Oct 8, 2011)

I've been learning to shoot a recurve lately and started with a October Mountain Adventuer 2.0. To me it shoots better than I do and some of the hardcore trad guys I have come in my shop have shot it and loved it especially for the price by far. We sell that particular bow for 175 bucks. Your local shop should be able to do the same. It's a take down bow, has all the holes for sights, rest and stabilizer if you choose. Mine is the 28lb model. I also have a 28.5 draw length. I'm shooting full length Gold Tip 3555s with 5in feathers as well. I'm far from a recurve expert as I mainly deal in compounds so these other guys may be onto something!


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Eliteonly said:


> I've been learning to shoot a recurve lately and started with a October Mountain Adventuer 2.0. To me it shoots better than I do and some of the hardcore trad guys I have come in my shop have shot it and loved it especially for the price by far. We sell that particular bow for 175 bucks. Your local shop should be able to do the same. It's a take down bow, has all the holes for sights, rest and stabilizer if you choose. Mine is the 28lb model. I also have a 28.5 draw length. I'm shooting full length Gold Tip 3555s with 5in feathers as well. I'm far from a recurve expert as I mainly deal in compounds so these other guys may be onto something!


Sounds like an ILF riser would be something we could change limbs on later, if we wanted a different weight.

How's the Samick Mizar Recurve Riser? Anyone?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

MamaBear said:


> We're not "serious" unless we want to do that? Some people think we're not "serious" if we don't want to spend $1200 a bow. Where do people get this, that we're not "serious" unless we'd do what they'd do and have the money to?
> 
> Frankly, we're not experienced enough to know what "serious" is yet, and certainly not to conform to anyone else's ideas of what it should be.
> 
> We've been to the range for about an hour every week, since mid summer and are tired of renting those recurves and fiberglass arrows.


You are jumping to conclusions. In this particular forum "serious" equals working towards shooting at the National and International level, this is a competition based forum although there are purely recreational archers on it. That is a 2-3 hour a day commitment, anything less really isn't serious around here.
DChan is also just about the nicest guy on the internet and spends countless hours helping people get started, food for thought.

-Grant


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Sorry MamaBear.

Didn't mean to say you have to have the same asparations as many others here. Serious for many of my students and athletes is just having a nice wood bare bow and enjoying the peaceful time of shooting. My point is maybe you don't need an ILF riser at this point. Bolt on limb type bows, you can purchase different weight limbs and change weights. Maybe not as many choices in brands but properly set up they will shoot better then you for years. For two hour a week shooter, that may be a good place to start rather then going ILF.

My Rolan (plastic riser) and bolt on limbs is very able to shoot 260/300 on a 40cm fita target at 18 meters. I still shoot with it partly to prove a point but partly because I really enjoy shooting it.. I can shoot it out to 70m with the right arrows and its only 22 lbs. 

I am sure I could "buy" several points with an ILF mid range bow and better arrows (and I do have several)

Please don't let anyone sell you goldtip 3555's however. That arrow is a 500 spine arrow. If you are shooting 25 lbs and 27" arrows you will want to be shooting a lot weaker spine arrow. I'll leave spine recommendations for when you and your friend choose bows , weights, and actually get an accurate DL measurement.

DC


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

grantmac said:


> You are jumping to conclusions. In this particular forum "serious" equals working towards shooting at the National and International level, this is a competition based forum although there are purely recreational archers on it. That is a 2-3 hour a day commitment, anything less really isn't serious around here.
> DChan is also just about the nicest guy on the internet and spends countless hours helping people get started, food for thought.
> 
> -Grant


Ok, thanks for educating me to that, of course I had no idea. Yes, until we see what we can do, we're recreational shooters.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> Sorry MamaBear.
> 
> Didn't mean to say you have to have the same aspirations as many others here. Serious for many of my students and athletes is just having a nice wood bare bow and enjoying the peaceful time of shooting.


My apologies back, too. 

Fact is, though, no one was born being able to run. We just picked up bows this summer and will not know what we can do, or how far we can go until we get some decent equipment and see. One example is that we've been using these soft leather gloves that we got into from the range shop, but even at 10 yards, they move around on, and grab at the strings, and cause moderately unpredictable shots. So some nice people in one of the other forums here, suggested a Cavalier Elite, which we're going to get at the same time as these recurves, and should help immensely. But we need to learn to walk before we can run, and see what we even want to aspire to, guys. We don't even know a lot of the terms that you super advanced people have been putting in posts here, I've had to google a bunch of them.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> Sorry MamaBear.
> 
> I'll leave spine recommendations for when you and your friend choose bows , weights, and actually get an accurate DL measurement.
> 
> DC


This is another thing. We're in the Denver area, and like I said, low income ( not poverty, just low - we can afford the range once a week if we get our own bows ). As far as I know, there's only one club here and it's over in Golden, and they apparently have their own range and everything, and they cost around $300 a year per person, which is above our income level for now. Outside of that, we have no other clubs and 2 ranges within decent driving distance, ( both in warehouse style buildings ) and I'm not even sure about "pro shops" at those. One seems geared almost totally towards hunters, and we even quit going there for a month, because it seemed like they didn't even notice we were there, when we were. The other one seems slightly friendlier, but we really don't even know any local people for advice, or club-like friendliness or supportiveness. So I'm not sure how many world class archers you'll see developing from the Denver area, unless people have some good money and join that Golden club, I don't know. From my present perspective, it looks like this part of the country is more geared towards bow hunters, and frankly, things would have to really hit the fan before we'd ever consider bow hunting - I mean just about go back to the middle ages, with starvation, because we've never killed anything and we love animals.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

If you read the sticky in my signature, There are a great deal of the terms you have seen bantered around along with descriptions and definitions.. I wrote that just for our new comers like you.

That's a pretty nice group for arrows.. By your post I'm guessing that's at 10 yards.. Something is happening right.

If you can afford to shoot at the range you have been using and can afford the cost of the rental for gear, One thing I might suggest is buy your own tab, and armguard now (don't wait for the bow) these can be personal and will serve you well long into the future. and since it's "indoor season" and also you are not shooting long distances, so no need to increase in poundage just yet, keep shooting their bows. Then maybe get the specifications on what you are shooting at the range (rentals) and post that info here as well. Then maybe buy a set of matched arrows. If you can get someone to measure you properly (see the sticky), and post the specifications of the bows you are both shooting, I (and I'm sure many more people) here would be happy to assist you with selection for arrows. Then with closer spine arrows and more important, Matched arrows, of the proper length, you can progress with the gear at the range without putting out the big expense just yet. You can save up and spend a little more time deciding which direction you wish to pursue. 

When you can put up groups like that at 18M /20Yds over a shooting session of 60 arrows, then you will have a much better idea of where you might want to take it..


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> If you read the sticky in my signature, There are a great deal of the terms you have seen bantered around along with descriptions and definitions.. I wrote that just for our new comers like you.


Sorry, it's a bit confusing and over my head, much of it. Just trying to take in the basics now, like I found that page on arrows that I still need to read. And time is a little skimpy too. I have work, my handicapped sister and 5 pet birds to take care of. 



> That's a pretty nice group for arrows.. By your post I'm guessing that's at 10 yards.. Something is happening right.


Yes, 10 yards with a stripped down basic rental recurve and fiberglass arrows. 



> If you can afford to shoot at the range you have been using


The range only charges $5 an hour for each of us, just to shoot, I think. It's the bow and arrow rental that drives that up to about $25 total for us. This is why we now feel that getting our own bows and arrows is essential.



> and can afford the cost of the rental for gear, One thing I might suggest is buy your own tab, and armguard now (don't wait for the bow)


We have arm guards, though I don't think either of us has ever gotten snapped, even once. Must be the shape of our arms and how we hold the bows. Yes, we definitely need those Cavalier Elite tabs. We got into these soft leather gloves that, like I mentioned, grab at, and even roll the string at times, and make shooting a bit unpredictable. That photo was my best group of the hour.  So I think we can greatly improve with that tab.



> these can be personal and will serve you well long into the future. and since it's "indoor season" and also you are not shooting long distances, so no need to increase in poundage just yet, keep shooting their bows. Then maybe get the specifications on what you are shooting at the range (rentals) and post that info here as well.


The range we've gone to the most, rents basic Polaris recurves. She's been shooting the 15 lb one, because of her back problems, and I've shot 20-25 lb ones. 



> Then maybe buy a set of matched arrows. If you can get someone to measure you properly (see the sticky), and post the specifications of the bows you are both shooting, I (and I'm sure many more people) here would be happy to assist you with selection for arrows. Then with closer spine arrows and more important, Matched arrows, of the proper length, you can progress with the gear at the range without putting out the big expense just yet. You can save up and spend a little more time deciding which direction you wish to pursue.


Recurves might be a bit less expensive than compounds, depending on what we get, of course. We were almost ready to get Infinite Edge bows, and just put it on the credit card, but have been trying to pay down some debt anyway, so we don't feel like credit card slaves, and those bows would have been $700 for two.



> When you can put up groups like that at 18M /20Yds over a shooting session of 60 arrows, then you will have a much better idea of where you might want to take it..


Thanks, really appreciate the advice here. Sorry about not looking into every detail, sticky etc., but so much of this is over my head ( for now ) and making my head spin a little.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Nothing wrong with the Polaris bow. Especially if mass weight is an issue. The limbs can be replaced with heavier limbs if you NEED to upgrade at some point but then you will have a better idea which way you want to go. The polaris riser is configured to be able to use a basic stabilizer as well as a sight and they are standard size threads so if you buy a sight or stabilizer down the road, you can move those items to a nicer bow.

If you both get the same bow riser type and maybe a 15lb and 22lb. design, You could probably do that for about 270.00 total. Then when you are ready to upgrade a little, sell the weaker limbs and buy one set of heavier limbs and move your current heavier limbs to your sister? 

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/las-rolan-66-recurve-bow.html

I believe this bow comes with a string. All you would need is an arrow rest (hoyt super rest or hunter rest if you want a little beefier one) each for 2.50.
and a nock locator. (dental floss works well)

You could probably both shoot Carbon impacts super clubs. at about 80.00 a dozen and you can each buy 6 of different sizes and/or lengths. Again would be happy to help guide you to the correct ones.

So for about 350 (plus tabs) you would be set to go.. (orders from Lancaster are free shipping after $250.00 and I think they tax free to many states. 

BTW how big are your hands? Seattlepop has several Caviler tabs up for sale in the classified section.. They are used but look like they are in good shape and at a GOOD price.

If you take good care of your gear, you can probably get some of the money back from the equipment by selling it here to purchase your upgrades in the future. 

We don't see beginner gear come up very often but I know if it did and it was well priced it would probably sell.

DC


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

I looked at the page you found on Arrows. For a recurve shooter, a lot of that info will steer you wrong. 

Check out Viper's website.

This guide may help you.

http://www.shootingthestickbow.com/ArrowGuide.html

DC


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> Nothing wrong with the Polaris bow. Especially if mass weight is an issue. The limbs can be replaced with heavier limbs if you NEED to upgrade at some point but then you will have a better idea which way you want to go. The polaris riser is configured to be able to use a basic stabilizer as well as a sight and they are standard size threads so if you buy a sight or stabilizer down the road, you can move those items to a nicer bow.


Thanks DC. Well from this thread, it sounded like ILS risers would be a better investment, but this is interesting.



> If you both get the same bow riser type and maybe a 15lb and 22lb. design, You could probably do that for about 270.00 total. Then when you are ready to upgrade a little, sell the weaker limbs and buy one set of heavier limbs and move your current heavier limbs to your sister?
> 
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/las-rolan-66-recurve-bow.html


Thanks. Interesting, will have a look. Gonna see if we can get to the other shop ( that didn't measure us ) today and see about DL.



> I believe this bow comes with a string. All you would need is an arrow rest (hoyt super rest or hunter rest if you want a little beefier one) each for 2.50.
> and a nock locator. (dental floss works well)
> 
> You could probably both shoot Carbon impacts super clubs. at about 80.00 a dozen and you can each buy 6 of different sizes and/or lengths. Again would be happy to help guide you to the correct ones.
> ...


Thanks! That sounds great!



> BTW how big are your hands?


Embarrassingly big, like the rest of me.  Ever seen Candy Crowley on the news network? I'm 6' tall and LARGE framed! In fact, the way I got my nickname was, in 1996, a little girl, about 18 months old, was walking by with her mom, and she looked up at me and broke into a giggle, pointed up at me and said; "Mama bear! Mama bear!". Wish someone had been recording with a camera! LOL!



> Seattlepop has several Caviler tabs up for sale in the classified section.. They are used but look like they are in good shape and at a GOOD price.
> 
> If you take good care of your gear, you can probably get some of the money back from the equipment by selling it here to purchase your upgrades in the future.
> 
> ...


Great, thanks! Will take a look at all this. And thanks so much for your help and patience! Really appreciate it!


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> I looked at the page you found on Arrows. For a recurve shooter, a lot of that info will steer you wrong.
> 
> Check out Viper's website.
> 
> ...


That says aluminum arrows, though. Aren't we talking about carbon?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

So measure your hand by placing your hand flat palm down fingers together on a ruler so you can see how wide your hand is across the knuckle line. While not an absolute, my hand is 3 1/4" across and a medium (size seattlepop is selling) fits me just about right. If your sister has similar sized hands He would probably give you a slight break if you got 2.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

regarding what happens when we shoot an arrow Check this out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer's_paradox

For arrow parts,

http://library.thinkquest.org/27344/modern.htm


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

MamaBear said:


> That says aluminum arrows, though. Aren't we talking about carbon?


oops sorry

I often forget my mind works in strange ways. Not everyone makes the same jumps I do.. 

We were talking carbon however using the info from Viper's page, we can get close using the spine data after calculating DW and DL, Applying it to an AL arrow and then looking at the spine.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> So measure your hand by placing your hand flat palm down fingers together on a ruler so you can see how wide your hand is across the knuckle line. While not an absolute, my hand is 3 1/4" across and a medium (size seattlepop is selling) fits me just about right. If your sister has similar sized hands He would probably give you a slight break if you got 2.


OK, my knuckle line is 3-1/2" across. Hers is about 3".


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> regarding what happens when we shoot an arrow Check this out.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer's_paradox
> 
> ...


Thanks but I need to contact that second one about their page, if possible. They need to check the code at the validator at http://validator.w3.org/ because it needs serious fixin to render well in browsers. I do my own web page maintenance for my small home part time business ( pays the bills ) and I correct everything to 100% with the W3 validator, so everyone can see my page.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> oops sorry
> 
> I often forget my mind works in strange ways. Not everyone makes the same jumps I do..
> 
> We were talking carbon however using the info from Viper's page, we can get close using the spine data after calculating DW and DL, Applying it to an AL arrow and then looking at the spine.


I know what DL is now, but DW?  Oh...draw weight?


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Yup.

DC


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

See post 23 and 26 in my sticky for acronyms.

DC


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Well we went to the range today and I had a bad time with the rental stuff again. This range uses those rubber grip things on the strings. My shots were all over the place and my fingers were actually getting bruised up. So I asked for a tab instead and they moved the rubber things down and gave me a rental tab that was too small for my hand and had the fabric ring coming out right in the middle of the slot at the end. Who makes tabs like that? 

The only good news from the place was that they had a wall calibration area to measure DL based on pre-divided finger tip to finger tip, outstretched. According to that, my DL is 29-1/2" and Jennifer's is 27", compared to 27" for me, and 26" for Jennifer at the other range that measured us using some kind of calibration bow.

Oh but that wasn't the only good news. This has got to be the second or third time, at BOTH ranges, that someone has suggested this archery shop in Arvada, and we were sort of going "yeah yeah" and blowing off the advice before, because we thought we could save a bunch of money by buying online. OUR MINDS ARE CHANGED!

The place is called Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear, and this is an AMAZING traditional family run father & sons archery shop! We are now LOYAL CUSTOMERS of this place! We met and talked with Tom for awhile there, and they are SO different and above the rest, that it was astounding. They know everything, are willing to teach us, and work with us, and they can DO EVERYTHING. The kind of shop that, if we were already experienced with this, we would WISH was here in town!

So we're gonna go back next week ( didn't have time this afternoon ) and get complete recurves and tabs from them! DEFINITELY! And Tom already started showing us some shooting techniques. They have a little 10 yard shooting area in the back of the shop. 

Oh, and while we don't know much about this yet, they appear to make their own arrows there, and have apparently been sizing them and grouping them in ways that they say no one else does. What an amazing and exciting place to find. We're all amped up now!


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

You know, I have actually read through all the posts on this thread. I have a suggestion. 
Don't buy anything until you can find a certified Level III (or IV) USAA coach who can evaluate you both first-hand. While you can see readily that there are a lot of good folks up here willing to take the time to try and help, I see a picture where there are a lot of variables involved, and you might be fine, or you might end up buying wrong and wasting your money and time. A coach can insure your draw length is accurately determined. That you select appropriate gear that is both right out useful as well as beneficial if you choose to continue growing as archers in the sport. 
That said, unless your hand is taller than average I would think you might find a shorter tab better at promoting a solid knuckle-to-jawbone anchor contact. In my experience with female archers the excellent cavalier finger tab's metal reliably causes bruising of the jaw area. I have instead begun recommending the Black Mamba fingertabs for several excellent features, the price being one of them. In addition, the passing statement that y'all have never zinged your arms tells me that you are not really approaching alignment<G> so the coach can really help you improve your skills in that regard. 
In this case, I would prescribe you continue gathering intel and save your money for just a little while longer, till you get enough information to feel confident about the decision on what to buy. 
Oh, and a good fingertab is like a toothbrush - you don't share it so you and your other need to each get one. (serious archers actually buy TWO and break them in equally in order to have a ready-to-play backup - more on that in your future education I am sure  ) Those black mamba tabs only come in a too-large size, which eliminates the risk of buying one that is too small. With a little coaching help, you can cut it down to just the right size. But there are other foreign-made tabs that have shorter metal plates that do not cause the bruising mark. 
If you can share your GENERAL location up here, you might get a response from a more accessible coach. You can also check the coaching resources locator function on the USAA website (www.usarchery.org) which can be useful. Oh, and if you are in Texas, please let me know via PM and I can definitely hook you up with a good coach hereabouts. 
Ron in Austin


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

hoytshooter15 said:


> Samick Polaris, or Samick Sage. Both are great beginner recurves and can be fitted to be a full on Olympic rig. However, if you want to make it one, there is a small modification that is recommended so the arrow sits on the bow correctly. I learned that the hard way.


Looking back on this post, when we were at the shop yesterday, I saw the Samick Sage and it's a beautiful and affordable bow! What modification would you make?

Oh, the shop is at https://www.rmsgear.com/store/pc/index_new.asp and like I said, it's an AMAZING place with GREAT people running it!

This is what I was trying to mention in my other post yesterday: https://www.rmsgear.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1513&idcategory=24


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

One thing to be aware is that the Samick Sage only goes down to 25#with the Sage limbs. So it sounds like it might be a bit much for Jennifer.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

bobnikon said:


> One thing to be aware is that the Samick Sage only goes down to 25#with the Sage limbs. So it sounds like it might be a bit much for Jennifer.


Thanks. 

Well Tom at the shop says that they actually work with people and fit them properly, the first step being teaching them how to shoot and hold the bow properly. He said there were four steps to the process and they will make sure we both get the proper training and bows that we need. We were delighted to hear that. So yes, she will need a different bow, and judging from how hard it was to draw the 25# Sage that he showed me, I think I want a 20# one for my target shooting.

I've heard that for hunting, the minimum draw should be around 35# but if we ever get into hunting ( would be impossible for Jennifer, due to her disability anyway ) we could then get a compound.

We still like the idea of a compound next year sometime, maybe when we get our debt fully paid off and can afford them more. But the recurve offers the tradition and the challenge of learning it, so we're pretty gung ho on this now!


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

We went back to the shop & got our bows today. First of all, it turns out that the intro class that we took at the range, was probably more suited to kiddies, or something. We didn't have any idea about how to really hold and shoot a bow until today, when they taught us at the shop. The proof is in the pudding - I started shooting about 3" groups at about 10 yards, there in the shop, 4 shots in that group.

I had a hard time handling a 25# bow and keeping it drawn, so I wound up with a 20#, therefore not being able to get the Sage that I wanted, and getting a Polaris. At 6' tall, I thought I was supposed to get about a 66" bow but this one, strung, is about 59". But it shoots very nicely and I can keep it fully drawn until I'm ready.

Jennifer wound up getting a 16# Polaris. She got hers with an arrow guide, which I guess she prefers, but the guy at the range who was teaching us, said that they all shoot "off the shelf" of the bow itself and it's fine, and I was getting that accuracy that way, so...

We both wound up getting tabs that worked well for us, SO much better than those gloves I mentioned that were grabbing and snagging the strings, and giving us unpredictable shots. These work REALLY NICELY, though not expensive. I got a E.W. Bateman TCDRL and she liked their 2TCDRM. Both are leather/cordovan.

We each got half a dozen arrows. He checked out our shots with a few different spines and arrow types and had us shooting very smoothly with the ones we bought - Victory VAP V6 1000 spine. Says 1000=5-10. Not sure what that means. But he said they should be matched to the bows, and those worked very smoothly on both our bows, though they weren't cheap for us.

Does anyone know a good place to find some not-expensive carry cases for these bows, fully strung? We just want to protect them at home and in transit to the range.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Strung cases are out there but expensive as in about what you paid for your bow. Sewing machine is your friend, with an old Viking machine from Goodwill, I make leather quivers bow cases and limb covers. If you don't have one check out the thrift stores for old heavy duty sewing machines which can be bought for less than $20.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Found this one: http://www.abarchery.com/acatalog/longshot-recurve-bow-case.html
but of course it's gotta be in UK and I have no idea of the cost.

http://www.bagdepot.com/cases_final/cs6/hg_173.htm


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

The 62" Polaris bows are excellent. I have several at 20# for form work and guests, including a lefty for the occasional southpaw. My sister purloined the first one I bought and happily shoots it when the urge strikes. I've got elevated rests on them, but shooting off the shelf is indeed fine and dandy.

Bateman tabs are very nice and protective ... some of the best on the market. You done good, there.

If you are leaving the bow strung, for home storage you can use a wooden dowel or even a hardware store "zig-zag" straight-looking hook with the plastic coating and just hang the bow on a wall vertically by the upper limb in the area where the string meets the limb. Won't hurt it a bit. Two dowels or zig-zag straight hooks will get you a horizontal mount with the limbs resting on either dowel if you desire the sideways "bow rack" effect. 

Congrats on the purchase.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Thin Man said:


> The 62" Polaris bows are excellent. I have several at 20# for form work and guests, including a lefty for the occasional southpaw. My sister purloined the first one I bought and happily shoots it when the urge strikes. I've got elevated rests on them, but shooting off the shelf is indeed fine and dandy.
> 
> Bateman tabs are very nice and protective ... some of the best on the market. You done good, there.
> 
> ...


Thanks ThinMan! 

Can they be left in the cases at home?

Or I was thinking of hanging them from a single padded peg in the middle of the riser, like they do with their bows at the range.

The guy at the store said it wouldn't matter if we unstring them, and of course takedown is a hassle, unless we're traveling or something, which we don't expect.

If we got into unstringing, I'd get one of those unstringing tools for $15, but no point, if the bow isn't harmed by leaving it strung.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Sure, you can either leave them in cases or hanging. The single padded peg as you observed would do the trick. 

A bow stringer is a must if you are going to unstring ... but if not, skip it ... but the minute you decide to ... buy one and get a quick lesson on its safe usage. My sister has left hers strung for several years and just hangs it on the wall. Modern bows with the glass in the limbs don't need to be unstrung like the wood-only bows. The only thing to be aware of is to not let the strung bow (or unstrung, for that matter) be exposed to long periods of extreme heat, such as for hours in the trunk of a hot car in mid-summer (glues, limb warp, etc.) Store the bow, temporarily or permanently, as you would a pet or yourself ... comfy conditions, only. Cold ain't so bad, but heat is the enemy.

Most of my bows are unstrung until I decide to shoot one. However, a daily shooter stays strung for weeks, and my Polaris bows are always strung, with no ill effects after several years. 

Have fun.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Ahah! http://www.tradtecharchery.com/x-spot-strung-recurve-case.html
Great price! We can get 2 with shipping for $80 and it's well-reviewed!

Gonna see if the local Sportsman's Warehouse can come close, and if not, order this one!

Looks like this X-Spot has some nicely prices stuff: http://x-spotarchery.com/downloads/x-spot_2012.pdf


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Just ordered 2 of those cases, and these back quivers look great for the money too, just ordered 2 of these: http://www.tradtecharchery.com/x-spot-widow-back-quiver-camo.html


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## md7 (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi,

I'm a new archer too and have gone through a similar learning experience. 
Shot my first arrow 3 weeks ago at intro lesson.

I currently own the Cabela's 62" Ranger bow at 29#. It was an impulse purchase, but it's
worked out pretty well.



MamaBear said:


> We went back to the shop & got our bows today. First of all, it turns out that the intro class that we took at the range, was probably more suited to kiddies, or something. We didn't have any idea about how to really hold and shoot a bow until today, when they taught us at the shop. The proof is in the pudding - I started shooting about 3" groups at about 10 yards, there in the shop, 4 shots in that group.
> 
> I had a hard time handling a 25# bow and keeping it drawn, so I wound up with a 20#, therefore not being able to get the Sage that I wanted, and getting a Polaris. At 6' tall, I thought I was supposed to get about a 66" bow but this one, strung, is about 59". But it shoots very nicely and I can keep it fully drawn until I'm ready.


One thing my instructor mentioned to me is to not "aim" (i.e. holding at full draw). The
draw and shoot sequence should be fluid. That advice has helped me a lot, my shots
from 1 week ago now looks terrible.

If your string is 59", then your bow is likely 62". Just FYI.



> Jennifer wound up getting a 16# Polaris. She got hers with an arrow guide, which I guess she prefers, but the guy at the range who was teaching us, said that they all shoot "off the shelf" of the bow itself and it's fine, and I was getting that accuracy that way, so...
> 
> We both wound up getting tabs that worked well for us, SO much better than those gloves I mentioned that were grabbing and snagging the strings, and giving us unpredictable shots. These work REALLY NICELY, though not expensive. I got a E.W. Bateman TCDRL and she liked their 2TCDRM. Both are leather/cordovan.
> 
> We each got half a dozen arrows. He checked out our shots with a few different spines and arrow types and had us shooting very smoothly with the ones we bought - Victory VAP V6 1000 spine. Says 1000=5-10. Not sure what that means. But he said they should be matched to the bows, and those worked very smoothly on both our bows, though they weren't cheap for us.


I currently shoot Easton genesis 30" arrows, they are $5/ea (the cheapest at Cabela's).



> Does anyone know a good place to find some not-expensive carry cases for these bows, fully strung? We just want to protect them at home and in transit to the range.


The bows you have are takedown recurves, so I'd recommend that you get a bow stringer.
Once disassembled, the bow can be stored and transported much more easily.
When I keep my bow fully strung during transport, I tend to hit things with it.


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

If money is really tight, another option to consider is to share a bow since your draw weight and draw length are not that much different. You can buy a lighter limb and both can use it. Recurve is more lenient as far as draw length is concerned.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

I just read through this thread and want to congratulate you on your entry into archery. I went through the same process a little over a year ago. I was put off by the local archery shop because they are mostly into compound bows and hunting and I am clearly more bother than I am worth. 
Still they are very nice to me when they are not busy, and do know about traditional bows. I sort of understand this since I don't spend a lot of money there, but their arrows are lower in price than I can order them from anywhere else, they will put whatever fletching I want on them, and will offer advice.

The owner of the shop is a woman so that might help. Anyway, she has a small range and will let me shoot all day, if they are not busy, for $5. Otherwise, I have a very large back yard. I was a bit overwhelmed with the information and can feel your pain with all the advice. I have a small budget and could not even afford a bow like yours, but did find one on eBay that was the right weight and the right price, less than $70 dollars. The cost of the arrows surprised me. Arrows were almost more than the bow, but carbon arrows are very tough, I still have some of my first arrows. In general, the numbers are a measure of stiffness. The 1000 means that it will deflect about an inch if supported at the ends with a weight in the center. The 5-10 is a weight range of bow that the manufacturer thinks the arrow will be good for. I would not worry much about it. If they work well for you, they are good. I have used some that are rated at 55-75 on my 40 lb bow and am happy. I was also happy with my first arrows which were rated much more lightly.

The important thing is to just shoot and tune out most of the advice. If it works for you, it is good, if not try something else. I use a tight fitting glove, remember my small budget, which I got at the hardware store. I wear a large, but bought a medium and then glued nylon straps on the inside of the finger tips. They work fine for me, and cost about $10. I went with the screw cap plastic quiver than doubles as a storage tube for the arrows. For a long time I didn't think I needed an arm guard, then one day started hitting my arm and actually wore it out so I bought a cheap leather on. My stance or something must have changed. You might think about a chest protector of some sort. I use a light leather jacket. Last summer I managed to hit my chest and it hurt like hell. Only happened once, but that was enough. In the winter it is not a problem, I wear a lot of clothing.

Again congratulations, have fun. That is the only reason I do it.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Thanks Nekekal. Well, the archery shop I mentioned above has a LOT of respect for traditional bows. They said compounds are easy, but recurves take skills. 

The Bateman TCDRL tab that I got, was only $15 and combined with what they taught me on how to shoot, yielded amazing results very quickly while I tried it there in the shop.

Yes, the arrows are expensive. They went through a "tuning" process with me, my new bow and those arrows, so I'll have better results if I stick with those. I'd just like to find more for a LOT LESS money and build a collection of them over time. But it's that one brand of arrow that comes in 1000 spine like that, a pretty specific one. Victory VAP V6 1000 spine, 30.5" arrows. They shoot smoothly off my particular bow, and very accurately. I can tell the difference in flight, and even the sound. But I haven't been able to find an equivalent yet, that costs less. Anyone?

I don't need a chest protector or anything, my stance seems to work find, and though I've been using an arm guard this whole time, since summer, I've never been snapped yet. Just always be aware of your stance, I suppose. It was good advice in that basic class we did over the summer, to stand facing 90 degrees from the target, but the real shooting advice was never in that class, and we just learned it from Tom, at that shop. I'm so glad we went to them!


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

From what I have read - if you really end up liking the simplicity of just a bow and arrow with out all the accessories of an Olympic recurve set up - you can probably find some great information in at tradtalk.com or the traditional section here.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Dacer said:


> From what I have read - if you really end up liking the simplicity of just a bow and arrow with out all the accessories of an Olympic recurve set up - you can probably find some great information in at tradtalk.com or the traditional section here.


There are some good discussions at tradtalk. I'd recommend the trad forum right here at AT:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=5

The AT trad forum is a bit smaller than Tradtalk or the leatherwall, but it is also less prone to banning over stuff like what "is" or "isn't" "traditional" archery.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Dacer said:


> From what I have read - if you really end up liking the simplicity of just a bow and arrow with out all the accessories of an Olympic recurve set up - you can probably find some great information in at tradtalk.com or the traditional section here.


Thanks Dacer. Would like to shoot it some now, and see, actually. If I can do great shooting and keep increasing the distance, I'll be very happy.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Warbow said:


> There are some good discussions at tradtalk. I'd recommend the trad forum right here at AT:
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=5
> 
> The AT trad forum is a bit smaller than Tradtalk or the leatherwall, but it is also less prone to banning over stuff like what "is" or "isn't" "traditional" archery.


Thanks Warbow!


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

We're eager to go to the range now, with these new bows, but the cases won't come until maybe Monday and we just had an "arctic express" come in to the Denver area last night. The high today was only about 8 degrees, heading for -5 tonight, they say, and lasting the rest of this week. So I'm a little nervous about taking these bows out to the car in this. I know they said not to leave them in a hot car, but this kind of cold?


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

MamaBear said:


> We're eager to go to the range now, with these new bows, but the cases won't come until maybe Monday and we just had an "arctic express" come in to the Denver area last night. The high today was only about 8 degrees, heading for -5 tonight, they say, and lasting the rest of this week. So I'm a little nervous about taking these bows out to the car in this. I know they said not to leave them in a hot car, but this kind of cold?
> 
> View attachment 1820683


Ouch, that is cold. The curing temperature of fiberglass resin is pretty high. I lived in Texas for a while and the outside temperature was over 100 F. Hard to believe bows cannot take at least that. I do think cold is worse. Things get brittle in the cold. I have been outside shooting yesterday and it was about 25 F. Nothing broke but my fingers. I bet your car is pretty warm and I think a short period of 4 F will not hurt anything, but I would let the bow warm up before shooting, although honestly I would stay inside. 

I think bows are made for normal life ranges. But at those temperatures, life may not be possible. 

Carbon arrows are expensive but last a long time. And you are correct, I would not try to change to something else. I did that and my groups moved around. I could shoot either set, but not interchangeably. I gave my original set to my brother. It is possible to break arrows. I hit one on the nock end and drove the nock down into the shaft. I cut it off and refletched it but it also shot differently. I also put one into a rock, I missed my 10 yard target in my yard, and that drove the point up into the shaft like a banana. And I lost one. Missed my backstop completely and out into the forest somewhere. So arrows are my biggest expense.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Yeah, ok, thanks. I think we'll wait until next week then, to be safe. It's not the glass I'm worried about in the bows, but it looks like wood laminate in the risers. 

We only get about 2 weeks of weather like this per year, just like 2 weeks of the very hottest temps, and they often come in December for the coldest, not necessarily in January like we'd expect.

I had to go out with some work today and there were few cars on the streets, despite very little snow on them.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

MamaBear said:


> We're eager to go to the range now, with these new bows, but the cases won't come until maybe Monday and we just had an "arctic express" come in to the Denver area last night. The high today was only about 8 degrees, heading for -5 tonight, they say, and lasting the rest of this week. So I'm a little nervous about taking these bows out to the car in this. I know they said not to leave them in a hot car, but this kind of cold?


I don't think freezing will hurt your bows if they are just stored there. What often damages things (besides heat) is the freeze thaw cycle and the condensation you get from it. However, shooting your bow in cold weather can be a different matter. I really don't know how it affects fiberglass bows with wood cores. But cold generally makes things more brittle and less elastic. So it can affect performance. And you should avoid, for instance, shoot an all Yew (no fiberglass) longbow in freezing cold weather. The yew wood is more prone to breakage when very cold.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Yeah, ok, thanks. I think we'll wait until next week then, to be safe. It's not the glass I'm worried about in the bows, but it looks like wood laminate in the risers. 

We only get about 2 weeks of weather like this per year, just like 2 weeks of the very hottest temps, and they often come in December for the coldest, not necessarily in January like we'd expect.

I had to go out with some work today and there were few cars on the streets, despite very little snow on them. 

Oh, does anyone know where we can have some name tags made, to put on our new bows? It just occurred to me that we'll be taking them to a range that rents the same models, and we don't want problems.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

My first thought: A strip of white electrician's tape can be placed easily onto a limb in the spot you choose and use a black marker to write what you want upon it. Easy on, easy off, low profile, doesn't dangle. This stuff sticks nicely and makes for great visual labeling on smooth surfaces, and follows curves if necessary, too.

You could even color-code with various colors of electrician's tape for a quick visual and grab. Maybe a cool "coat of arms" type of tape pattern that's distinctive and all yours.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

MamaBear said:


> Yeah, ok, thanks. I think we'll wait until next week then, to be safe. It's not the glass I'm worried about in the bows, but it looks like wood laminate in the risers.


In a fiberglass laminate recurve, the glass is doing all the work, the wood is mostly filler. Glass on one side compresses, the other side is in tension. The wood keeps them apart so they don't explode. But there are a lot of internal stresses on the glues holding everything together. These glues do get brittle so I would be careful in the cold, although I will go outside and shoot anytime the temperature gets above 28 F. Nothing has come apart yet, and I have old bows, probably about 50 years old. Nothing magic about the 28 number except my fingers get too cold below that.

For marking, the easiest would be to use masking tape and a pen. You could also get creative and create a decal or paint something on, or even spray paint the entire limb to a color of your liking that will be unique. 

Good luck


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Thin Man said:


> My first thought: A strip of white electrician's tape can be placed easily onto a limb in the spot you choose and use a black marker to write what you want upon it. Easy on, easy off, low profile, doesn't dangle. This stuff sticks nicely and makes for great visual labeling on smooth surfaces, and follows curves if necessary, too.
> 
> You could even color-code with various colors of electrician's tape for a quick visual and grab. Maybe a cool "coat of arms" type of tape pattern that's distinctive and all yours.


We want something nice and pro looking. Would be willing to pay $7 each for a nice sized name tag ( maybe 1/2" x 3" ? ) that sticks along the inside of one of the bow's limbs. Entrepreneurial opportunity for someone on Ebay...


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Nekekal said:


> In a fiberglass laminate recurve, the glass is doing all the work, the wood is mostly filler. Glass on one side compresses, the other side is in tension. The wood keeps them apart so they don't explode. But there are a lot of internal stresses on the glues holding everything together. These glues do get brittle so I would be careful in the cold, although I will go outside and shoot anytime the temperature gets above 28 F. Nothing has come apart yet, and I have old bows, probably about 50 years old. Nothing magic about the 28 number except my fingers get too cold below that.
> 
> For marking, the easiest would be to use masking tape and a pen. You could also get creative and create a decal or paint something on, or even spray paint the entire limb to a color of your liking that will be unique.
> 
> Good luck


I wasn't even thinking about wood in the limbs. The risers of these Polaris bows appear to have some nice wood laminates in them, and I was worried about that. It's 5 degrees here today, at 12:44 PM. Brrrrrr.... Looks like we're in for the rest of the week of this cold. I think it reached -11 last night but WeatherBug hasnt worked on this PC in a few years, for some reason.


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

If you really get the itch to shoot and practice you can get a bag target for around $40 or so and hang it in a closet door and shoot close up.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

LOL We're not THAT desperate, but thanks Dacer. :wink:


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Just wait. 

This recreational sport can quickly become a passion, that you think about all the time. 

The only thing I don't like about archery is I get tired way, way before I ever want to stop shooting. 


I set up an indoor range In My basement after I realized I wanted to be able to shoot at night or whenever I wanted. Tried shooting with a spot light on my outdoor target - I lost a few arrows.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

MamaBear said:


> I wasn't even thinking about wood in the limbs. The risers of these Polaris bows appear to have some nice wood laminates in them, and I was worried about that. It's 5 degrees here today, at 12:44 PM. Brrrrrr.... Looks like we're in for the rest of the week of this cold. I think it reached -11 last night but WeatherBug hasnt worked on this PC in a few years, for some reason.


Sorry, I went back and read what you wrote and I read to fast. I need to spend more time on reading the words that are there, all of them. I just didn't think about the riser. They are basically just a block of wood. I think that the laminations are there because it is difficult to buy big blocks of wood and it is better looking with the laminated wood. 

But having said that, the only bow I have had break broke right in the middle of the riser. That turned my one piece into a two piece. It happened during the summer though. 

it is definitely too cold to go out. Although I was thinking about driving to the indoor range/shop to feed my addiction.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Dacer said:


> Just wait.
> 
> This recreational sport can quickly become a passion, that you think about all the time.
> 
> ...



LOL!  Come to think of it, I wonder why they cant fit arrows with some kind of micro chip that you could detect with a finder, in the grass or woods. Another entrepreneurial opportunity?


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Nekekal said:


> Sorry, I went back and read what you wrote and I read to fast. I need to spend more time on reading the words that are there, all of them. I just didn't think about the riser. They are basically just a block of wood. I think that the laminations are there because it is difficult to buy big blocks of wood and it is better looking with the laminated wood.
> 
> But having said that, the only bow I have had break broke right in the middle of the riser. That turned my one piece into a two piece. It happened during the summer though.
> 
> it is definitely too cold to go out. Although I was thinking about driving to the indoor range/shop to feed my addiction.


I landed in the midst of a bunch of archery freaks. LOL! 

I dunno, I may wind up that way some day myself, but we don't have a basement. ;-)

The high today here was 5 degrees with an 8 MPH breeze and wind chill of -8!


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

MamaBear said:


> LOL!  Come to think of it, I wonder why they cant fit arrows with some kind of micro chip that you could detect with a finder, in the grass or woods. Another entrepreneurial opportunity?


Oh, they could. A Radio Frequency ID chip can easily fit into an arrow or arrow nock, and be detected with a large enough active antenna. But it does have a limited range, and it might not work through snow


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Warbow said:


> Oh, they could. A Radio Frequency ID chip can easily fit into an arrow or arrow nock, and be detected with a large enough active antenna. But it does have a limited range, and it might not work through snow


Probably would, and yes the range would be limited, but you KNOW the range area you shot it in, so you'd just walk up and down it. Don't think a real large antenna would be needed, maybe a little loop sticking out of a remote control sized transceiver. ( I used to work as an electronics R&D tech years ago, and a ham radio op since high school )


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Concerning the name tag, perhaps a local print shop can make a couple for you for very little money. Describe the dimensions you want and the surface you're sticking them to (or take the bow into the shop with you) and they may have have an uber-hip label maker with a variety of backgrounds, including clear, to design just what you desire. If you get one thin enough you may be able to go over it with some layers of Tru-Oil or the like and affix it permanently and protected to the limb. 

Another option is to delicately paint your name upon the bow (or magic marker it if the limb is white), and then seal it with layers of Tru-Oil or the like to make it permanent (similar to the fashion in which custom bowyers mark their bows). I am in nearly finished doing this very process with painted names on a couple of ukuleles that will be gifts. Looks marvelous and personal. 

More thoughts for the thinker.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

More like "over-thinker" in my case, Thin Man. LOL

Hey: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1X3-EMPLOYE...=100010&prg=1076&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=150997618099&

Just what to use as adhesive?


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

MamaBear said:


> Thanks Nekekal. Well, the archery shop I mentioned above has a LOT of respect for traditional bows. They said compounds are easy, but recurves take skills.
> 
> The Bateman TCDRL tab that I got, was only $15 and combined with what they taught me on how to shoot, yielded amazing results very quickly while I tried it there in the shop.
> 
> Yes, the arrows are expensive. They went through a "tuning" process with me, my new bow and those arrows, so I'll have better results if I stick with those. I'd just like to find more for a LOT LESS money and build a collection of them over time. But it's that one brand of arrow that comes in 1000 spine like that, a pretty specific one. Victory VAP V6 1000 spine, 30.5" arrows. They shoot smoothly off my particular bow, and very accurately. I can tell the difference in flight, and even the sound. But I haven't been able to find an equivalent yet, that costs less. Anyone?


The new Easton Carbon Apollo shafts are fairly inexpensive and come in spines out to 1200, but by the time you buy all the components they're about the same as the VAP V6. As suggested, you might want to take a look at the Carbon Impact Super Club arrows. They're a little less than the VAP arrows and are well-regarded. Lancaster Archery sells them.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

The best I found so far, has been http://www.eaglearchery.com/Victory-VAP-V6-Arrow-Shafts-Fletched but they need points. I'm not sure if the points to those are screwed or glued in. I asked them to help me come up with a complete arrow in the 1000 spine, with the 100 grain points and feathers instead of those vanes. They're working me up a quote on a dozen.


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

Dacer said:


> If you really get the itch to shoot and practice you can get a bag target for around $40 or so and hang it in a closet door and shoot close up.





Dacer said:


> Just wait.
> 
> This recreational sport can quickly become a passion, that you think about all the time.
> 
> ...


How do you know when you have progressed from beginner archer to intermediate target archer? When you find yourself shooting everyday down your home's hallway into a bag target you've hung in a closet. It's not desperate, it's normal archer behavior.


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

williamskg6 said:


> The new Easton Carbon Apollo shafts are fairly inexpensive and come in spines out to 1200, but by the time you buy all the components they're about the same as the VAP V6. As suggested, you might want to take a look at the Carbon Impact Super Club arrows. They're a little less than the VAP arrows and are well-regarded. Lancaster Archery sells them.


Mamabear. Plus 2 in recommending the Carbon Impact Super Club arrows. I shoot them myself. As William mentioned, Lancaster Archery sells them for a little less than $6.00 an arrow, and they come to you fully fletched (with vanes, not feathers), nocked, and with points that you do have to glue in. Here's a link to the CI website. http://www.carbonimpact.com/ Now that you have your bow, and know your draw weight and length, you can use the sizing chart on the website to determine the arrow size for ordering. I like these arrows a lot, and use them for outdoor shooting, both for fixed targets and field ranges. They fly well at both short and long distances. Regards, Larry


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

TER said:


> How do you know when you have progressed from beginner archer to intermediate target archer? When you find yourself shooting everyday down your home's hallway into a bag target you've hung in a closet. It's not desperate, it's normal archer behavior.


LOL! STOPPP! You're encouraging me in that direction! Don't! Stop! ....Don't stop!... LOL


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

larry tom said:


> Mamabear. Plus 2 in recommending the Carbon Impact Super Club arrows. I shoot them myself. As William mentioned, Lancaster Archery sells them for a little less than $6.00 an arrow, and they come to you fully fletched (with vanes, not feathers), nocked, and with points that you do have to glue in. Here's a link to the CI website. http://www.carbonimpact.com/ Now that you have your bow, and know your draw weight and length, you can use the sizing chart on the website to determine the arrow size for ordering. I like these arrows a lot, and use them for outdoor shooting, both for fixed targets and field ranges. They fly well at both short and long distances. Regards, Larry


From the chart at http://www.carbonimpact.com/12_target_shaft_spine_selection_chart.php 
they don't even cover our draw weights, which are 16# and 20#.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Remind us what your AMO Measured DL's are? (just in case the have changed since you first posted that info)

That CI chart is out dated.. They now carry a 5/15 arrow and the chart is missing lots of other info.

I've been setting up lots of these 5/15's and 10/20's for people and have been quite happy with the results. Almost no chart out there lists 16lb bows so you are going to have to "wing it"


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Not sure about AMO but we were measured 2 different times by 2 different range shop people, using some kind of actual bow method the first time, and using a fingertip on the wall divided by 2.5 the second time:

Melissa: Time 1: 27"... Time 2: 29-1/2"

Jennifer: Time 1: 26"... Time 2: 27"


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Do you have any idea what they used on the calibrated bow? Did they measure to the arrow rest?

The reason it's so important to know your AMO DL is all calculations are made from a set number/standard that all archery MFG's use..

Without the AMO DL number as a measured (not calculated) All data may be off. (garbage in garbage out). The fingertip on the wall is considered a "calculated" DL and while it can be accurate sometimes, I rarely find it to be reliable for people unless they are "average arms to body to height to shoulder width to forearm upperarm ratio, etc..

It sounds like the first place you went to, gave you your "true Draw Pivot point" AMO would be that plus 1.75" or 28.75 for Melissa and 27.75" for Jennifer.

Because your first measurement was when you first started shooting, it probably would not be as accurate since we know from experience that DL's keep changing as people get better..
The second measurement is based solely on your wing span so that would not be considered as accurate either since it doesn't take into account what I mention above..

Both will be close if we make the assumption that your first measurement was True Draw without actually adding the 1.75.

IF we take that info that way, and if your bow is truly 20lb's at AMO 28" DL then we can calculate that you probably have 22-23 lbs on the fingers. So if you purchased some 10/20 arrows which are full length about 28.5 and left them full length, they would be shootable for you. If your DL is really 29.5, then they would be almost too short for you to shoot. They would however probably spine stiff.

The VAP's at 30.5" should also spine stiff for you as they are about 1000 spine. and at 29" arrows you probably want to be shooting somewhere close to 1200 if not 1300 spine. They are better than the 500's or 600's that many shops would have tried to sell you but even the 1000 spine is on the stiff side.

At 24lb on the fingers with 29.5" arrows my bow tunes with about 1400 spine arrows however Like Limbwalker, I tend to need weaker spines compared to the charts. So you shooting 22-23lbs you probably would want to be in the 1200-1300 spine range.

For Jennifer, making some assumptions for her setup, if she is shooting a 27" AMO DL, and the bow is rated at 16lbs, we can calculate that she is probably shooting around 14lbs off the fingers. Even 29" arrows would need to be in the 1800-2000 spine range to be close to tuning. Getting a set of 5/15 Super clubs and leaving them full length will get you closer but would still be well on the stiff side.

This is a case of "can't really blame the shop" as they probably would never sell arrows spined that weak so it's hard to justify carrying them.

Interestingly enough Lancaster will sell you as many arrows as you want. You don't have to purchase the full doz.. So if you wanted to try them and you have been shooting 5 arrow ends, (NFAA) you could order 6 or 8 arrows in your length. 10/20's for Melissa and 5/15's for Jennifer and see how it goes.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

another thought in passing..

You mentioned you are shooting off the shelf instead of using an elevated arrow rest. You really should be shooting feathers and not vanes. (If you are not already) so something to consider as you go through the process of thinking about ordering arrows is quite often shops charge extra for feathers rather than vanes but most of the "prebuilt" arrows like carbon impact, come with vanes.

Feathers "lie down" as they go past the riser/shelf were vanes "bounce off" the riser/shelf.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> Do you have any idea what they used on the calibrated bow? Did they measure to the arrow rest?
> 
> The reason it's so important to know your AMO DL is all calculations are made from a set number/standard that all archery MFG's use..
> 
> ...


Thanks DC but my head is spinning from this. I don't know who to go to for the kind of draw length measurement you're talking about, or if they even exist here in town. The rest is a little over my head for now, I'm afraid.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

dchan said:


> another thought in passing..
> 
> You mentioned you are shooting off the shelf instead of using an elevated arrow rest. You really should be shooting feathers and not vanes. (If you are not already) so something to consider as you go through the process of thinking about ordering arrows is quite often shops charge extra for feathers rather than vanes but most of the "prebuilt" arrows like carbon impact, come with vanes.
> 
> Feathers "lie down" as they go past the riser/shelf were vanes "bounce off" the riser/shelf.


This first batch of arrows - the Victory V6 VAP 1000 with 100 grain points, was custom, and did use feathers. I've also asked Eagle for a quote, fletching with feathers, though I wasn't aware of the above at the time.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

I'll try this another way.

To get your AMO measurement, you can do this yourself with the help of Jennifer.

Find somewhere safe to draw back your bow. If the only place is at the range that's fine, wait until you can go there.

Take an arrow (one that is longer than you need so any of yours will work)
Nock it on the string and draw it back to your FULL anchor. DO NOT SHOOT!

Since you both have the same bows with different weight, I would use the lighter one for this (16lb)
While at full draw/anchor have Jennifer put a mark on the arrow right where the hole is at the arrow rest. Then gently let down the bow. Re nock the arrow, (be sure it's seated on the string) Relax for a minute and do it again. Verify that the arrow is drawn to the same place. Do this a third time. 

Now measure with a yardstick, from the base of the nock groove to the mark on the shaft. (if there's three distinct different marks, then give us the range. To that measurement we add 1.75" and that's your AMO DL.. Record that somewhere. It will probably change over time but that's where you are right now..

RE the rest of the data.. 

Basically the arrows you purchased, while are a lot better matched to your bow than a lot we generally see on the range sold to new archers, They are not quite matched to your bow. They would be too stiff for you and even more so for Jennifer. The rating on you arrows should be closer to 1300 and probably 1800 for Jennifer.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

You can also put a clothes pin on the arrow and let it slide down towards the point as you draw if you don't have someone handy to mark the arrow. That gives a rough draw length to the part of the bow that faces away from you (confusingly called the "back" of the bow), and is the length used by many archers for draw length. However, the gold standard for draw length is as dchan noted, measured to the point above the deepest part of the grip (called "true draw length"), plus an arbitrary 1.75 inches, which in total equals "AMO" or "ATA" draw length.*









Don't be too eager to order arrows that are that exact length. Many people's draw length increases over time, as dchan notes, as they learn to get their entire body into alignment. (Years ago I helped a friend pick arrows that were just right, and even left over an inch of extra length for her to improve - I way underestimated how much her draw length would increase as she continued to grow in archery and eventually her arrows became too short for her form.)

*the "DLPP" noted in the drawing is the same as "true draw length". The deepest part of the grip is also called the "pivot point" as it is the fulcrum by which you hold the bow, and thus makes "Draw Length to Pivot Point".


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok thanks guys, I'll report back later on this. 

As hard as it was, to even find the 1000 spine arrows, I cant even imagine trying to find 1300 or 1800 spine ones, but let's see, anyway. Thanks.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Most of the time, I couldn't tell you "exactly" how long my arrows are. The measurement isn't important. What's important is that the tune well, and you can pull them under your clicker without pulling them off the rest. Other than that, don't worry about it.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

MamaBear said:


> Ok thanks guys, I'll report back later on this.
> 
> As hard as it was, to even find the 1000 spine arrows, I cant even imagine trying to find 1300 or 1800 spine ones, but let's see, anyway. Thanks.


I'm not really suggesting that you spend too much time trying to find those arrows. At this stage of the journey, you should not be worrying if you can "Tune" the bow until you are really shooting pretty good groups. 3-4" groups at 18M/20Y. occasional flyers are part of the process so dis-regard the flyers.

What I was trying to get you to understand is knowing what DL you have helps the rest of us try to help you.

Limbwalker is correct that the exact measurement for your arrow is not important and since we know you are still a ways off as far as working on accurate tune and you are still looking for a beginner arrow that is less expensive for the learning part of your journey, I was trying to assist you with figuring out if the Carbon Impact Super Clubs would be a viable option since as you found, the chart is sort of cryptic.

From what I can gather from your given information, the 10/20's would be fairly close in spine for you (probably slightly stiff)
They would be even stiffer for Jennifer since she is shooting a lighter weight and shorter draw so thinking about going with a 5/15 for Jennifer and a 10/20 for you. Leave them full length for now (in other words don't pay them to cut them)

Since you seem to be very happy with the shop you are working with, I would suggest you ask them if they can order you a set. Then they can assemble them for you. 

They would be cheaper than the VAP's and would get you through several months of shooting until you can afford the next upgrade. 

DC


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

OK great, thanks DC!


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Just make sure the stock length is long enough for you. The different spine weights of Carbon Impact Super Clubs have different stock lengths, with the lower spine weights being shorter. Since you are 6' (IIRC) the 10/20 may or may not be long enough for you.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

It's time that I pause with this thread and just get to the range and do some shooting. Frustrating week here - the cold has gone between -14 and +6 degrees every day and we don't feel like going out. Even things outside are quiet, not much traffic. Are people staying home because of it? Maybe just curtailing optional driving, I dunno. Our martial arts sparring class was canceled Wednesday too, because of the icy roads right after the storm came in with this cold, so I'm suffering sparring deprivation now too. Haven't had my minimum weekly requirement of fun this week. But by Tuesday, they say it will be up to freezing again.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Ok, some results. We got to the range yesterday. The following is at 10 yards, my best groups of the hour are shown below. We're shooting better with these new bows and arrows, and the new tabs, but not as great as I'd expected at this distance. I'm wondering if I understood and am doing it right.

If I recall correctly, Tom told us to grip the bow by touching index finger to thumb, then moving the lower part of the thumb down against the bow and putting the lower 3 fingers on the front of the bow, so they cant accidentally rotate it while shooting. He said to draw the string with the middle 3 fingers, while trying to touch the thumb to the pinky. And he said to rotate the shoulder kind of horizontally back, until the string just releases, without having to do much with the fingers. Does that sound correct? I think I'll look for some YouTube videos, they seem to teach everything there too, and demonstrate how. 

The last photo is of the hangers I put on the living room wall for the new cases. They're a little tilted as they hang, but that should be no problem?


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

MamaBear said:


> Ok, some results. We got to the range yesterday. The following is at 10 yards, my best groups of the hour are shown below. We're shooting better with these new bows and arrows, and the new tabs, but not as great as I'd expected at this distance. I'm wondering if I understood and am doing it right.
> 
> If I recall correctly, Tom told us to grip the bow by touching index finger to thumb, then moving the lower part of the thumb down against the bow and putting the lower 3 fingers on the front of the bow, so they cant accidentally rotate it while shooting. He said to draw the string with the middle 3 fingers, while trying to touch the thumb to the pinky. And he said to rotate the shoulder kind of horizontally back, until the string just releases, without having to do much with the fingers. Does that sound correct? I think I'll look for some YouTube videos, they seem to teach everything there too, and demonstrate how.
> 
> The last photo is of the hangers I put on the living room wall for the new cases. They're a little tilted as they hang, but that should be no problem?


I don't know. When I started at 10 yards, I was shooting at the same size target but it was on the middle of a stack of 4 straw bales against the fence. I missed the straw several times. When I got a target that looked like yours, I was feeling pretty good. I still feel pretty good when I get one like that, although now I am at 25 yards. I don't do a lot better at ten yards but I enjoy missing more from farther out.

And as a side note, don't even waste time thinking about all of the tuning talk. You just need to enjoy shooting. 

But I think your target looks pretty good, and I like your bow hangers too.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Thanks Nekekal! 

And I belt tested today at my new martial arts school.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Here's the best of my hour of shooting this afternoon. Basic recurve bow with no accessories, at only 10 yards, but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

Definitely better than I am, and I have been at it a year longer. Maybe I should take some lessons.


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## MamaBear (Aug 31, 2013)

Nekekal said:


> Definitely better than I am, and I have been at it a year longer. Maybe I should take some lessons.


Only 10 yards. 


The top photo is this week, the bottom was uploaded by accident, and was from months ago, but I was unable to get rid of it.


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