# ordering a finger tab, how do you know what size?



## atjurhs

The archery shops around me are bowhunter oriented and really don't carry much in the way of finger tabs (a heart shaped piece of leather is about it). So if I order from Lancaster, how do I know what size to order: small, medium, or large? I'd just a soon not order a large when I need a medium, and then half to return/exchange it. BTW, if it makes any difference, I'm thinking of getting a AAE Elite, but the question is really more generalized and hopefully helpful to others looking to learn the same.

I don't know what measurements really matter to answer the question, but here's what I think is a good starting point. With my hand flat on a table measuring across my knuckles is 3.5inches and measuring across my fingers (at the tip of my pinky) is 2.75inches.

So what say, ye?

And maybe the answer can only come by several folks chiming in with their measurements and what size tab they are using.

Maybe there's a better way to determine small, medium, or large, if so I'd like to know....

Thanks for the info, Todd


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## Greysides

My measurements are similar to yours, perhaps a little bigger. I found a Black Widow large tab to be spot on.


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## m013690

From what I've discovered, your method seems to be about as good as any.

My hand measurements are spot on what you just described (provided I measured in the same places), and I shoot a AAE Elite size Medium.


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## Ranger 50

I ordered a similar tab and a large worked for me. Measurements were about the same.


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## skunklover

The measurement you want is the width of your knuckles, and somewhere on the internet there's a picture of the AAE Tab sizes with the height of the plate on each. You want this to be as close to your hand size measure as possible. Different manufacturers have different sizing. I was a Small AAE Elite tab, but a Medium Fivics Saker 1.


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## larcher90

It's also not the end of the world if you get the wrong size. I was able to get my large Cavalier tab all the way down to a medium with a hacksaw and a file, and (almost) all the screw holes are still useable.


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## atjurhs

Ok, while we're at it, what are the differences pro/cons between Cordovan, Hair, Super Leather?


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## jhinaz

atjurhs said:


> Ok, while we're at it, what are the differences pro/cons between Cordovan, Hair, Super Leather?


Hair will wear OUT when it gets a lot of shots.
Cordovan will wear IN when it gets a lot of shots. It just keeps getting better. - John


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## Seattlepop

*Tab sizes...*

If you are considering the Cavalier this might help:


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## skunklover

That's the document I was looking for, or something similar like that.


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## titanium man

Nice diagram!! Bigger is better................trim if needed.


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## tkaap

Seattlepop said:


> If you are considering the Cavalier this might help:


Seattlepop Fred, that's a great find. That image is so "right" that it's inspired me to rant about what's "wrong" with archery store web sites.

The fact that it's a "find" is a great example of what's wrong with archery companies' web sites. Where does AAE/Cavalier post that image? Anywhere? Archery manufacturer web sites do a horrible job delivering the information on their web site, then they count on the "community" to help out their confused potential customers.

This is their official site for arguably the most popular tab out there: 
AAE/Cavalier official page
The page has some marketing description, and a meaningless list of "sizes". Heck, with the one I have, people assume the "L" means "Left-handed". Most of us here know it's a quality product, but how is a new shooter/customer to know? 

Here's the fancy KSL tab that's meticulously made to fit your hand precisely and biomechanically. 
KSL Gold Tab
But again, how can I -possibly- know what size will fit my hand? Without that information, the rest of the effort to "precisely" fit my hand seems wasted.

It's not just AAE, here's Fivics:
Fivics Saker Tab
They have decided to color-code their sizes. Why is that important, except to make it easier for them to sort their sizes and not have wasted materials on unpopular colors? I like my equipment in green, but I can't probably use the Fivics green tabs. Or maybe I can, but I don't know -- because they haven't included any size information either, at all, despite having an enormous 120 MB catalog where it would be easy to include extra information.

Here's K1 archery in Long Beach. Friedrich is great, and will drive to meet you for delivering equipment and sampling ideas. He has great personal service. He found me one of the last GMX risers in the Jade color when it was discontinued. His web site keeps improving faster than AAE's and Fivics', but his new tab comes in four mystery sizes... 
K1 Triple Tab
I've spent a lot of money with him, but I wouldn't have done that from his web site -- there wasn't a lot of information at the time. I had to check with other people who had met him personally before I trusted ordering through his web site.

Here's a site run by two guys with a great idea. They, among all of the ones I've seen, have solved the "what size tab should I buy" problem -- they only offer one size. Their tab plate system works with a small plate, so the idea is that it fits everybody. 
Black Mamba Archery
But their web site has a huge note displaying that it hasn't been updated in a year. Are they still in business? I assume so, since I see them around the forums, but their web site and storefront wouldn't tell me that. (I use their spacer on my AAE Elite tab, and I love it. I'm still waiting for this to be sold in green to get the whole tab)


This is just the tab. (Don't get me started on chest protector sizes, too). Or even on important stuff like bows, arrows, and strings (and shoes, naturally). 

Manufacturers rely on shop owners and coaches. US Archery is struggling to convince its top-level coaches to teach introductory courses. I can't find a level-2 instructor class in my own area of 10 million people. Introductory level coaches don't know what to recommend for equipment -- certainly not to the manufacturer's satisfaction. 

Heck, I usually just pass along Viper1's list to new folks. If I were a manufacturer, I'd bribe, plead, lobby, and extort Viper1 to put my equipment on that list... It's practically more official for US FITA newbies than anything coming out of the US Archery organization.


Every step of the way, with nearly every archery company, new customers are thwarted in their attempt to spend money because of the combination of:
1) Lack of full information on their web sites.
2) A traditional return policy with a heavy restocking fee.
Without one of those, there is no reliable way to only buy what will actually work for you. So it makes people reluctant to open their wallets. Zappos.com solves #2, since #1 is impossible with shoes.

I understand #2 for archery supplies, since it's a low volume market. You can't survive on try-it-and-return-free like Zappos and others do with high volume cheap items. #1 is inexcusable when it's the only face you show to your customers. 


So instead customers go to a local shop to ask questions, which is a hit-or-miss depending on the area, the day of the week, and the mood of the shop staff. Even great shops have bad days. Or customers live in a area where FITA shops are light on the ground (Is there an area where shops stocking FITA equipment are common -- Fullerton, CA, and Lancaster, PA maybe?). Even the big boys like Hoyt send me to my local bowhunting shop. He's a great guy over there, but what does he know about target recurves? The more I go there, the more he learns, but if I didn't already have other resources, neither of us would know what to do. Why is Hoyt risking their business on customer patience?

If the local shop fails, then customers go to online forums and youtube reviews, and they have to take the word of "random" folks on the Internet. There are some great knowledgeable folks here, but why would a manufacturer want to bet their entire business that a new customer will get the right information from a forum-junky like me instead of from their own staff?

It drives me nuts! A proper web site really isn't that expensive when you're selling equipment that costs more than knitted scarves from an Etsy page. Just hire a copy writer who knows nothing about archery. Assign them the task of writing enough information so that -they- understand how to order the product for themselves. Use the Mechanical Turk, this should cost about $20 per item, maximum. That's -half- of the price of -one- tab sold.


It's March. By the end of summer four major archery-boosting media events will happen. 

Hunger Games - The movie comes out in two weeks. You can't find this book at your library -- 100 JOAD-age teens already have it reserved.
Avengers - May 4th (Hawkeye has his conspicuously recognizable Paralever bow...)
Pixar's "Brave" - June 22nd -- A zillion girl scout troops will need equipment for archery events.
Summer Olympics - July 25th -- Two magical weeks when people care about niche actitivies like ours.

Plus the usual summer boost from areas that have a Rennaissance Faire, scout camp, or outdoor games.

A load of new shooters will come in, flooding intro classes at shops, clubs, and park districts. For all of the griping about "we want archery to be more mainstream", this is a great year to sell archery stuff. The best you'll have for a while. But not if the sites are all completely devoid of the necessary information. Tune up your sites. Fill them with "expert" advice. New shooters are rabid readers -- devouring any information about setup, tuning, form, etc. Give them long desciptions of what your product is, why you need one, why you need -this- one, and how to fit it to yourself. 

Otherwise you'll spend four more years wondering why curling, field hockey, darts, and Xbox will continue to be accepted as mainstream TV events more than archery.

If you can't make the effort for -this- year's sales, then you must hate making money and making archery shopping fun.

-T


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## fitadude

titanium man said:


> Nice diagram!! Bigger is better................trim if needed.


+1 on that!!!


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## Cephas

Tkaap,

You just summed up most of the frustrations we've had as a new archery mom and dad, loads of choices but not enough information to make an informed decision.

Pete


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## Seattlepop

tkaap said:


> Seattlepop Fred, *that's a great find*. That image is so "right" that it's inspired me to rant about what's "wrong" with archery store web sites.
> 
> The fact that it's a "find" is a great example of what's wrong with archery companies' web sites. *Where does AAE/Cavalier post that image?* Anywhere? Archery manufacturer web sites do a horrible job delivering the information on their web site, then they count on the "community" to help out their confused potential customers.
> 
> 
> ..................
> 
> 
> -T


Thanks, but I couldn't find it either, so emailed AAE customer service and received a friendly response with the chart attached.


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## atjurhs

Thanks guys! I've ordered a medium sized AAE Elite


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