# Paper tuning problem



## Matrix1 (Aug 21, 2006)

I am trying to paper tune my compound bow (HOYT charger) however I consistently get a vertical upwards tear. I moved my knocking point even to a point where the arrow position is considered unacceptable ( the arrow has an upwards looking direction), changed the arrow rest blade (from 0.10 to 0.12) however the result is the same.

Can someone help me please?


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

It could be a spine issue. Have you tried different arrows?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

If I understand you correctly, you are moving your nocking point downward and continue to get a high tear. It is possible you are going the wrong way as the arrow may be bouncing off the rest causing the high tear. Try raising the nocking point and see if the tear improves.


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## Matrix1 (Aug 21, 2006)

I tried moving the nocking point at both directions but I have the same issue. Also I tried shooting Carbon one 410 and 450 and x10 protour 420

Also checked the cams and they are aligned and synchronized.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Hoyt Charger, well just about all Hoyts. Last I worked on a Hoyt with blade rest I had it timed pretty good and had a 1/16" nock high setting, but I had the blade set at about 30 degrees or so. The owner was using a .010" or .012" and breaking the blade. He had the blade up more and was in fact driving the arrow into the blade, which like EPLC noted the arrow was getting "flipped" or bounce effect. 

Blade or prong style (shoot through rests), I like a bit of "lift" of the arrow coming off the rest. Spray foot powder or the like will show excessive contact or interference.

What arrow rest? Rests like the QuikTune 3000, Spot Hogg, Hamskea and others have adjustable spring tension. Said is you want float, well, I've yet to see "float" with these rests. The only arrow rest I ever saw give true "float" was the older Bodoodles, like the Bullet or Conquest. Here, you could actually move the bow up and down a good bit the arrow would go up and down with the rest. Basically, for a good start, you have spring tension so the arrow doesn't come all the way up until you have the bow about half to three-fourths drawn. I forget which one, maybe all of them, but the Spot Hogg had or has indicator to show if the arrow is getting driven into the rest..... 

Randy Ulmer once penned that when setting up a arrow rest he took care of verticle correction with just the spring tension. I don't know how unless he had the rest set pretty close. 

Nock pinch may also be a possibility.

edit; Remembered Tony speaking of a blade rest. May or may not fit, but.... - http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2433355&p=1072851999#post1072851999


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Not knowing your arrow set up, type of rest, or bow poundage, I'd initially suggest that you reset your knocking point to where it was originally. Nocking point should be about 1/16"-1/8" high for most of the Hoyts being shot with a blade. Then move the rest upward in slight increments (if you have microadjustability). Keep the .010 blade on and make sure your blade angle is between 30-35 degrees. 

Don't get hung up on getting a bullet hole in paper if you're tuning for a target set up--most target Hoyts end up slightly nock high left for a right-handed shooter; let your groups dictate if you need fine tuning after your reset.


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## soonerboy (Sep 6, 2004)

I suggest that you reset your nocking point back to where you started. Then add or take off turns to the top limb until you get a bullet hole.


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## MPKO (Sep 18, 2014)

check your cam sync if you are sure that nock point and other already mentioned topics are ok.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Reset your nock and then set up the rest so the arrow is level when just the tips of the blade are touching the arrow. You should have a bit of sag when the arrow is sitting on the blade.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Matrix1 said:


> I tried moving the nocking point at both directions but I have the same issue. Also I tried shooting Carbon one 410 and 450 and x10 protour 420
> 
> Also checked the cams and they are aligned and synchronized.


You did say your arrow is pointing upward. Move the nock to the point that the arrow is pointing slightly down. Go even more if needed and see if the tear improves. Could be a lot of other things as mentioned but I would rule nocking point out first.


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

Just out of curiosity from someone who will never paper tune, but have you tried varying the distance you shoot? I know paper tuning is important [I just can't do it myself], but doesn't an arrow oscillate as it is launched [vertically for compounds and horizontally for recurves] and for several, if not all the way to the target, yards? I would then presume that it stands to reason that at some yardage "x" the oscillation would always tear? Before we go into how wrong I am, and I am sure I am, I sat through a tuning class where the instructor show a video (produced by Easton I think) from which was described to me how an arrow viewed through high-speed video oscillated from launch to target. So, in theory, a bullet hole at "x" yards would be expected to tear at "y" yards. Has anyone every shot through two papers with some space between to compare the two? I understand "bullet holes" as it relates to penetration, but is that bullet hole through a paper at some short yardage as important as grouping bare shafts and BHs with FPs at longer yardage? Would the latter groupings of BSs, BHs, and FPs also indicate impact "straightness?" 

Again, just a blind guy without a clue talking theory, so feel free to say "that's just dumb..."


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

ShootingBlind said:


> Would the latter groupings of BSs, BHs, and FPs also indicate impact "straightness?"


Actually, most often, the longer and better groupings of BHs and FPs would indicate the effectiveness of vane correction and have to be viewed slightly differently than BS results. Pretty good grasp of the theory from a blind guy!! :wink:


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

montigre said:


> Actually, most often, the longer and better groupings of BHs and FPs would indicate the effectiveness of vane correction and have to be viewed slightly differently than BS results. Pretty good grasp of the theory from a blind guy!! :wink:



I was working off the concept I've read often that the BHs and BSs would "drift" from the FPs in the same relative direction, but your analysis makes a lot of sense. Broadheads are another archery tool I don't ever expect to play with... field points take down paper plates just fine.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

ShootingBlind said:


> I was working off the concept I've read often that the BHs and BSs would "drift" from the FPs in the same relative direction, but your analysis makes a lot of sense. Broadheads are another archery tool I don't ever expect to play with... field points take down paper plates just fine.


Hey, don't let your guard down. Them paper plates can get vicious 

I look at paper tuning as "lets check and see what my arrow is doing." Not too bad of tear, say 2" high and 2" left or right (won't accept low tears) I've went straight to French tuning, short or long distance. I get center shot set I then play with the rest or nocking point height to see if groups can be tightened. Hey, arrow dead on at 9 feet and dead on at 50 to 60 yards I don't even consider shooting through paper again. Way back when I set up my then new 2006 Hoyt ProElite. I eye balled center shot. Went to the paper stand and had slight left and high tear. Good enough. For me and 20 yards I set the 20 yard setting so the pin is 3 3/8" above the top of the arrow shaft (rest locked in the up position). And then I set the pin so it's just left of the bow string while having the arrow aligned to the bow string. With the first shot, 20 yards, I was on paper with a 4. Adjusted my sight and shot a "gooder" 4. My 3rd shot was in the bull's eye. Feeling pretty good I kept right on shooting the NFAA 5 spot. I ended up with a 298 and health amount of Xs. Never changed that bow until I decided to use it for 3D. For 3D I used a short distance French tune procedure, 9 to 10 and 30 yards. I can't remember changing the rest for center shot. The bow shot great and was still shooting great the day I traded it off.

Bare shaft tuning. My experience with bare shaft tuning sucks. Now, after reading a bare shaft article I think the reason was because of the arrow's 6.04% FOC. Yeah, I use a 80 gr glue-in field point. Article said if the proper or good weight field point is used the arrow will follow the field point. 

And I don't broadhead tune either. Nope. My hunting bow is French tuned and just plain deadly out to my imposed 40 yard limit and deadly with any fixed blade broadhead I've used. Placed and won quite few club 3Ds with this bow.


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