# $2.50 Arrow rest once again wins Olympic gold



## TwilightSea

Pics or it didn't happen!


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## limbwalker

Okay,

Khatuna:









Ki










John


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## TwilightSea

Works for me!


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## jmvargas

have been using it since i started..


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## limbwalker

My daugher finally shot the little "finger" off of hers, and she's just now breaking it in... 

I'll never forget just how many of those rests I saw in Athens. Seemed like 1/3 of the bows on the line had them. Esp. the women. They are pretty hard to beat even still.

John


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## Sighting In

John, as a compound archer, I don't have tons of experience with these rests, accept for fixing the broken ones we use at our JOAD program. Do you think they perform "better" than a more expensive rest, or about the same for a fraction of the cost?


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## kenko

Sighting In said:


> John, as a compound archer, I don't have tons of experience with these rests, accept for fixing the broken ones we use at our JOAD program. Do you think they perform "better" than a more expensive rest, or about the same for a fraction of the cost?


May not be John, but I don't suspect that cost is going to play a huge factor into choosing which rest to use at the Olympics :tongue:


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## DWAA Archer

I've got a question for you John. 

How often do these archers replace these rest?

Now no one can question the performance of these rests and I think I read some where that Rick McKinney had got thousands of shoots out of one. But they do wear out and would you put a new one on just before a competition?

If archers replace them before major competition then costs would become relative to any other rest out there.

Also time would be a factor when replacing a super rest having to get all the sticky stuff off before putting a new one on I'd rather have more time to shoot which as you know as someone who works for a living time is always limited


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## Zbone

DWAA Archer said:


> I've got a question for you John.
> 
> How often do these archers replace these rest?
> 
> Now no one can question the performance of these rests and I think I read some where that Rick McKinney had got thousands of shoots out of one. But they do wear out and would you put a new one on just before a competition?
> 
> If archers replace them before major competition then costs would become relative to any other rest out there.
> 
> Also time would be a factor when replacing a super rest having to get all the sticky stuff off before putting a new one on I'd rather have more time to shoot which as you know as someone who works for a living time is always limited



Curious to John's answer.... Thanx


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## frankjd

ih rick's book he sez 25,000 shots or once a year. rick was (is?) a super rest user,


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## TwilightSea

I just had to replace mine since it wouldn't hold my arrow anymore. Least they're cheap in price!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## agillator

Super Rests are an appealing rest solution, but if you are serious about tuning I think there is a dark art to using them, particularly with a plunger; no doubt an art well-know to olympians and their coaches, but not to me. Pad them too much and they interfere with your vanes/fletches. Pad them too little and the arm can pull pretty hard on a bendy shaft/soft plunger (e.g. kids bow with 1214 Jazz's with the lightest possible plunger setting). Since they are stick-on rests it is time-consuming to experiment with the padding thickness. The right thickness is also riser dependent. It would be helpful to have a procedure from the well-experienced for making the most of these rests.


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## limbwalker

No need to 'experiment' with padding thickness. You set the bow up, temporarily tape the rest to the riser with masking tape, then evaluate the centershot from behind the bow before ever peeling off the backing of the adhesive for the rest. If your centershot is not set correctly (plunger, or not) then there is no worry about using this rest. Also, most of the top archers trim the little "finger" off this rest right off the bat. I would recommend trimming all but the slightest upward portion of the finger for advanced archers. For beginners and intermediate archers, there is no problem leaving the finger on there.

John


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## pilotmill

ok there goes the bargain. As soon you pointed that out John, I expect to see a exponential price jump. Advice, stock up now. LOL Gar.


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## limbwalker

ha, ha. Nope, they have been about $2.50 for a long, long time and they have been on a lot of Olympic medalist's bows. This is nothing new. Just thought I'd point it out for those newbies trying to find a good rest, or wondering if they really need to spend $35 on an adjustable rest.


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## Zbone

John - Which brings up a good question - Are these Olympic recurve risers all cut/manufactured past center.

And does a newbie really need a plunger if starting out with this rest?


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## limbwalker

1) yes.

2) No. You can achieve an excellent competitive tune without a plunger using the Super rest if you know what you're doing. It's like having a normal plunger set to a medium setting. You just adjust the bow draw weight, arrow length, point weight, brace ht., etc. instead of cranking on the plunger spring tension. Something you should actually be doing already anyway


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## Zbone

Thanx John....

Got my ducks in a row and ready to pull the trigger on a setup as soon as some of these retailers get stocked.

If this new obsession ends up costing me thousands, I'm gonna curse you....8^) (joking)


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## jmvargas

Zbone said:


> If this new obsession ends up costing me thousands, I'm gonna curse you....8^) (joking)


....oh i'm pretty sure it will-----based on MY experience!!

PS..but you will enjoy the journey!


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## dchan

Bump for those starting out.

Don't need a real fancy arrow rest.. This one works great!


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## wanemann

ok, sorry, but i gotta ask, its not the right thread, but ill hide the question here instead of out right asking. every picture i see of bi bo bae the string line is visable down her nose, mouth and chin, yes i only see it when she is competing, but dont see her otherwise. wondering if she shoots so much its there all the time. i notice it on others also, but its only there for the shot then fades, hers seems to be there all the time, is it? sorry the pic made me bring it up.


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## limbwalker

Just a relic from active shooting. I get one too, but it only lasts an hour or so. Proof you're pulling the string in against the bone nice and tight.


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## wanemann

limbwalker said:


> Just a relic from active shooting. I get one too, but it only lasts an hour or so. Proof you're pulling the string in against the bone nice and tight.


thanks john, i was a little worried i may be too vain to get that good lol


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## Vittorio

The Hoyt super rest is still used mainly because of its arm position in relationship to plunger. This needs around a chapter of a book to be explained properly (an It will, sometime..), but anyhow the reality is that its arm position is almost perfect in minimizing tuning variables. 
Its metal counterpart was the Yamaha Flip II, no more existing, and Yamaha copy first by Ukrainians and after by Cartel that copied the Ucrainian copy, but it is also no more avilable. ARE anyhow has one version with similar arm position. 
Quite often people use things because they work, independently from the understanding of the function. I Think this is the case for this small plastic jewel. Anyhow, if you want to use it seriously, you have to change it quite often depending from the poundage you use.


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## limbwalker

Vittorio, thanks for the background info. I've seen this rest on enough Olympian's bows by now to think it is surely one of the most successful rests in Olympic archery history. 



> Quite often people use things because they work, independently from the understanding of the function


This is true of many pieces of equipment, and it's probably better that most folks don't think about why they work. 

About how many shots do you think a Super Rest is good for? I would say my daughter gets about 1000 shots before she will shoot the little "finger" off, although she's getting to the point where she should be able to shoot it without the finger now.

John


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## Seattlepop

Vittorio said:


> The Hoyt super rest is still used mainly because of its arm position in relationship to plunger. This needs around a chapter of a book to be explained properly (an It will, sometime..), but anyhow the reality is that its arm position is almost perfect in minimizing tuning variables.
> Its metal counterpart was the Yamaha Flip II, no more existing, and Yamaha copy first by Ukrainians and after by Cartel that copied the Ucrainian copy, but it is also no more avilable. ARE anyhow has one version with similar arm position.
> Quite often people use things because they work, independently from the understanding of the function. I Think this is the case for this small plastic jewel. Anyhow, if you want to use it seriously, you have to change it quite often depending from the poundage you use.


I just checked, and the Hoyt Super holds the arrow well in front (target side) of the plunger which it must because the base of the arm is in front as well. Almost all stick on spring/mag rests locate the base of the arm behind the plunger so the arrow rests at or just to the front of the plunger. Without a full explanation, is the additional distance forward the desirable characteristic?


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## Vittorio

limbwalker said:


> Vittorio, thanks for the background info. I've seen this rest on enough Olympian's bows by now to think it is surely one of the most successful rests in Olympic archery history.
> 
> 
> 
> This is true of many pieces of equipment, and it's probably better that most folks don't think about why they work.
> 
> About how many shots do you think a Super Rest is good for? I would say my daughter gets about 1000 shots before she will shoot the little "finger" off, although she's getting to the point where she should be able to shoot it without the finger now.
> 
> John


Number of shots depends for sure from poundage, tuning and shaft pressure on vertical plane. So frankly you have more parameters than me in deciding when to change the rest. My personal opinion is anyhow that nowdays there are less troublesome solutions to get same result. 

The perfect rest has its arm just under the plunger, is almost perpendicular to the bow window with a very limited angle on vertical, and its arm does not show up from downside of the arrow. Beiter rest is geometrically close to the perfection, but has been made with the arm to much flexible, so this has jeopardized its good design.


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## TheLongbowShoot

Thats why I use a simple plunger/rest that costs $4.99


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## K31Scout

I've used them for years and leave the finger alone on my hunting bow. I use feathers and the finger has never caused a problem with wear. I went through a couple different magnetic rests that broke before I settled permanently on the Hoyt SR.


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## limbwalker

I've left the finger on my daughter's Hoyt SR until she shoots it off, then I replace the rest. The little "finger" helps keep the arrow on the rest for kids that struggle with "lifting" the arrow with their middle finger. This has probably saved her hundreds of points over the years versus shooting the occasional arrow off the target.

She's recently "graduated" to a magnetic flipper rest with a wire arm, but only after she could prove to me that she is no longer lifting the arrow with her middle finger.

John


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## hooktonboy

Funny thing.... have used the Hoyt SR for many years. Every time I order some bits on-line, I tend to add a couple of them to the order "just in case". Sorting out stuff the other day, I find I have 13 brand new ones, and the one I put on the bow originally (must be approaching it's 8th birthday)....maybe I have enough stock now 

Quality.


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## P&y only

How well do these work when your leaning in a tree stand with the wind blowing and your knees shakin?


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## limbwalker

P&y only said:


> How well do these work when your leaning in a tree stand with the wind blowing and your knees shakin?


Pretty well actually, but Hoyt makes the "hunter" version of the super rest for just such occasions 

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt-hunter-rest.html

It's also useful for little 4-H and JOAD kids that are careless and exceptionally rough on their equipment 

John


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## K31Scout

It keeps my arrow on the shelf even beyond 90 degree tilt even though I don't cant that much. lol


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## ladyeclectic

I'm curious, the guys at my local archery shop told me not to use this as (for my Samick Sage) I'd be more accurate off the shelf instead of using a rest. I'd been using a bow prior to my Sage with one of these Hoyt rests on it and found it very helpful, whereas today I was struggling to keep it on the little "rug" I have on the bottom of my shelf. For $2.50 (or whatever they cost nowadays, I haven't looked yet) I'm definitely willing to do this, but will there be any FPS lost? Does it even matter at this point (newbie)? And when I'm lining it up (since I'll obviously need to reset the nock metal point) where should I measure, the center of the dip?

(yeah, I'm a total newbie, I'm sure there's technical terms for all these...um, terms  )


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## limbwalker

If the guys at the shop are telling you that shooting off the shelf will be more accurate, I'd find another shop from which to take advice. A rest will always be more accurate. I shoot my hunting bows both off the shelf and off a rest, depending on how I have a particular bow set up, but the added contact and less forgiveness you get off the shelf does nothing to help accuracy.

The rest I'd suggest for you right now is either the Hoyt Hunter or the Bear Weatherrest. This one (the Hoyt Super Rest) is just a little flimsy for a beginner that plans to shoot a lot. Usually, there is a lot of arrow to rest contact with a beginner due to poor releases, mismatched arrows, etc. Of course, you can use the Super Rest if you want, but you might have to replace it a couple times each year. 

Most important thing is to get the centershot set correctly. These rests come with two thicknesses of backing. Use the proper one to get your arrow aligned slightly outside of center when it's sitting on the rest. 

Yes, you'll need to raise your nocking point. It should be 3/8" above square with the arm of the rest.

Good luck.

John


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## Zbone

John - "get your arrow aligned slightly outside of center"

What do you mean by that, I thought you wanted your arrow setting as close to center (center shot) as you can get it?


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## ladyeclectic

Zbone said:


> John - "get your arrow aligned slightly outside of center"
> 
> What do you mean by that, I thought you wanted your arrow setting as close to center (center shot) as you can get it?


I'm kind of curious about this as well. Earlier this week I got some 1816s with 125 grain heads + inserts (screw-in points) and with the Hoyt Hunter rest they're still shooting noticeably right. I'm compensating (and boy is it nice to have arrows that fit the bow!) but will this be a constant consideration (the arrow going right) or am I doing something wrong?


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## limbwalker

Slightly outside of center means that if you nock an arrow and then stand behind the bow and look down the string (lined up with the limb bolts) you will see the point of the arrow to the left of the string for a RH archer, or to the right of the string for a LH archer.

This is basic bow set up 101. Check the Easton tuning guide or Murray Elliott's "archers reference" for this.

John


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## joebehar

limbwalker said:


> You can achieve an excellent competitive tune without a plunger using the Super rest if you know what you're doing. It's like having a normal plunger set to a medium setting. You just adjust the bow draw weight, arrow length, point weight, brace ht., etc. instead of cranking on the plunger spring tension. Something you should actually be doing already anyway


I'm a complete novice. I'm expecting my "new to me" bow and limbs to arrive in the mail within the next 7-10 days. I was planning on going to the store and spending $40-$50 on a rest and plunger, and now you tell me I can do what I need with less than $3. Where do I buy 3 of these? One goes on the bow right now, the second one is back up and the third just because they're $3.


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## Zbone

Hmmm, left of centershot for a right hander, guess I misunderstood before.... Thanx

In the bowyer world, strike plate within 1/8 of string is considered center shot. I just assumed more precise Olympic bows should be true centerhot....


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## limbwalker

Lancaster archery (.com) 

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt-super-rest.html

And just so I'm clear - the Olympians who use this rest are using it WITH a plunger button. But you don't have to. It can be shot to a pretty high level with just the little cushion plastic that comes on it.

John


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## joebehar

Thank you John,

I'll be trying a few for sure. At under $3 I can afford to experiment with how far off centre, how much of the "finger" to leave on and all sorts of things.

Oh, by the way, using the word Olympians in a post that refers to me in any way is the ultimate oxymoron...I have yet to actually shoot a complete round. 2016 is out of the question, 2020 is very unlikely and by 2024 I'll be almost 70...LOL


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## K31Scout

Zbone said:


> John - "get your arrow aligned slightly outside of center"
> 
> What do you mean by that, I thought you wanted your arrow setting as close to center (center shot) as you can get it?


Most compound shooters want a centered arrow because they use a mechanical release. Finger shooters cause the arrow to bend at full draw so the off center arrow rest helps compensate for this.


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## heetel64

As a beginner, I have been using the super rest based on price with a cheap riser and limbs. Getting an AL1 riser this week with a Spigarelli ZT thin rest and Shibuya DX button. I will do a comparison but as good as these little diamonds are, I had thought to give them up but now I'm in two minds.


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## Stone Bridge

heetel64 said:


> As a beginner, I have been using the super rest based on price with a cheap riser and limbs. Getting an AL1 riser this week with a Spigarelli ZT thin rest and Shibuya DX button. I will do a comparison but as good as these little diamonds are, I had thought to give them up but now I'm in two minds.


Been shooting for 35 years and still use the Hoyt Super rest with my FITA setup. All I do is trim the hook a little bit and cut off the deflection plate in order to use a plunger. I have not found a better rest yet. Metal wire arms can break. I've never broken a Super Rest.


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## bradd7

Stone Bridge said:


> Been shooting for 35 years and still use the Hoyt Super rest with my FITA setup. All I do is trim the hook a little bit and cut off the deflection plate in order to use a plunger. I have not found a better rest yet. Metal wire arms can break. I've never broken a Super Rest.


Just ordered 3 on these recommendations and experiences for my bare bow setup. Can't go wrong with all this help even though it will cost me double to get them here from LAS!

Thanks!!!


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## Cephas

We go through about 3-4 of these a year. I can't see spending more money on a wire rest that may break, I'd need to have a backup anyway. The beiter's are nice but two set you back $80. I keep several supers in the kit all the time and have saved the day for a few archers. The daughter has used them from the start and they've worked very well for her. If I thought it would give her a few more points I'd get her to switch but I don't see the need.


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## dchan

One small problem with Super rests and beginners..

Too many beginners try to grab the arrow with their index finger as they nock the arrow. When they do this, they almost always break the super rest right off..

I always have to advise the beginners to keep their finger off the arrow. Never seems to sink in. Then they complain the rest is broken.


DC


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## Warbow

dchan said:


> Too many beginners try to grab the arrow with their index finger as they nock the arrow. When they do this, they almost always break the super rest right off..
> 
> I always have to advise the beginners to keep their finger off the arrow. Never seems to sink in. Then they complain the rest is broken.


So true. It is, I suppose, a teaching opportunity. "It will break if you keep doing that" may not always get through, but perhaps it helps. We really don't want them leaving their finger there for safety reasons, either. Maybe teaching them not to for multiple reasons will help with that? :dontknow:


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## lksseven

Has anyone here ever had the wire on a Shibuya rest actually break? That wire seems as breakable as a railroad spike. I've been using the same one for almost 3 years and it's looking like it's going to outlive me.


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## Scott G.

Will the SR hold up to string walking?


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## dchan

lksseven said:


> Has anyone here ever had the wire on a Shibuya rest actually break? That wire seems as breakable as a railroad spike. I've been using the same one for almost 3 years and it's looking like it's going to outlive me.


Yup. But for the same reason..

Darn beginners just NEED to have that index finger wrapped around that arrow to keep it there while they put the nock on the string.


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## dchan

Scott G. said:


> Will the SR hold up to string walking?


Assuming you are walking down the string and not a huge amount, it should. Shooting 3 under or more is like shooting with a high nock point. The arrow SHOULD go past the rest and riser nock end high and thus not impact the rest as it goes by.


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## GBUSA

heetel64 said:


> As a beginner, I have been using the super rest based on price with a cheap riser and limbs. Getting an AL1 riser this week with a Spigarelli ZT thin rest and Shibuya DX button. I will do a comparison but as good as these little diamonds are, I had thought to give them up but now I'm in two minds.



Just remember with the Spig ZT, the arrow sits on top of the hook not behind it like on the super rest :wink:

I'm ok with paying a bit more for the Shibuya ultima and Spig ZT  imp2:


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## Pojman

limbwalker said:


> Lancaster archery (.com)
> 
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt-super-rest.html
> 
> And just so I'm clear - the Olympians who use this rest are using it WITH a plunger button. But you don't have to. It can be shot to a pretty high level with just the little cushion plastic that comes on it.
> 
> John


Or if you are lucky enough to still use a Hoyt ProMedalist T/D you have a nice adjustable plate that the rest sticks on.


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## rambo-yambo

John,

When a plunger is used with a Super Rest, shold there be a gap between side of the rest and arrow? If the rest touches the arrow on the side, I can't see how the plunger work. Also since there are only 2 stick on pads (thick and thin) that comes with the rest, how critical is the center line position? Thanks,


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## midwayarcherywi

John is on an AT hiatus. Cut the tab off the super rest when using a plunger. Center shot is very important. So make sure to use the proper backing on the rest to see the point of the arrow just left of the string line. If you are using a plunger, adjust the plunger so that you get this proper center shot position.


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## dchan

rambo-yambo said:


> John,
> 
> When a plunger is used with a Super Rest, shold there be a gap between side of the rest and arrow? If the rest touches the arrow on the side, I can't see how the plunger work. Also since there are only 2 stick on pads (thick and thin) that comes with the rest, how critical is the center line position? Thanks,


John is talking about the little plastic tab that acts like a plunger on the rest.. Most that use a plunger in conjunction with the super rest will cut this little "plunger" tab off. Then the actual plunger is used to set centershot position. Most more advanced archers will also trim the little finger that sticks up at the end off a little too. I've never noticed a need to remove this finger so I just leave it there but I guess it's possible that it could make a slight impact to your arrow flight. 

The need for the thick and thin adhesive pads is not all bows have the same clearance in the window on the riser. More cut out on the riser would put the arrow rest too far to the right and then putting a plunger in pushing the arrow that far towards the end of the rest arm would not be a good thing.

If you are not shooting at the level that "requires" a plunger, IE still beginning, Centershot is not THAT critical. as you get further along centershot can be very critical requiring a plunger to help you set it just right.

DC


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## midwayarcherywi

We differ a bit here Dave. I consider getting a proper center shot a basic part of equipment set up.


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## dchan

Actually we don't differ.

If you have the opportunity to get it close with the proper pads do it..

Context..

The comment was due to the fact that you only get 2 sizes of pad. thick and thin. If proper centershot falls between the 2, select the one that gets you closest to that "proper centershot" preferably with the arrow point outside or left of the string in the case of the right handed shooter, in your initial equipment setup and don't stress over it.

If you are doing a basic setup and can adjust everything.. I also agree it is very important.

DC


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## rambo-yambo

If I don't use plunger and if I need to use two foam spacers to bring the arrow to center point, would the foam act as the plunger since it is not rigid? What if I use arrows with different diameters, do I need to adjust the center point between arrows? How can I do it since the space is of certain thickness?

If I use a plunger, and I cut off the plunger tab of the rest, what is the advantage of using the super rest? especially if you cut off the smaller tip also?


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## midwayarcherywi

Using 2 foam spacers might make the rest unstable. I wouldn't do it. If you opt to not use a plunger use the spacer that gets you the closest to ideal. Yes, if you use a different diameter arrow you'll likely have to change your center shot.

The super rest is consistent and inexpensive. That's why they are used.


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## dchan

rambo-yambo said:


> If I don't use plunger and if I need to use two foam spacers to bring the arrow to center point, would the foam act as the plunger since it is not rigid? What if I use arrows with different diameters, do I need to adjust the center point between arrows? How can I do it since the space is of certain thickness?
> 
> If I use a plunger, and I cut off the plunger tab of the rest, what is the advantage of using the super rest? especially if you cut off the smaller tip also?


In answer to your first group of questions, depends... we need more context to answer this question. What style shooting, distances, goals, level of shooting? I know I can get most of this by searching your history but having it in one place would help.

RE advantage? cheap.. easy to replace easy to field replace.. effective. Very little impact to the arrow for poor releases. especially if your clearance is marginal.

Cons, easy to break and not as adjustable..


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## Stone Bridge

dchan, I keep hearing about people breaking the Super Rest. I've used them exclusively for many years and have never broken one. In fact, I think their ability to bend without breaking is a great selling point. I've bent metal wires by catching them on things, but have never hurt a Super Rest by catching it on clothing and the like. That nylon material they are made of seems bomb-proof to me.

Can you describe how they break? the actual manner? Maybe what's helping me keep the Super Rests intact forever is the weather I shoot in - it's always warm. Maybe this warmth keeps the nylon more pliable and less prone to cracking or breaking? Not only have I never broken a Super Rest but I've never had the adhesive let go in the hot weather either. Some brands of metal wire rests this can be an issue.

I've tried a million rests but always come back to this little gem.


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## dchan

Stone...

Beginners and lots of kids have a bad habit of using their index finger of their bow hand to try and steady the arrow as they nock the arrow and begin drawing the bow. When the arrow begins to pop off the rest as will often happen with beginners and kids as they squeeze with their drawing hand, they grab the arrow with that index finger and snap, Off comes that arm. Happens with metal rests too. ,

Even worse are the kids and some clueless adults that think the arrow rest should stick straight out so they have a wider arrow rest and actually try to fold the rest so it sticks straight out..


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## Stone Bridge

dchan. Thanks. I can see what you're talking about. In time that would bugger any rest to some degree.


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## rambo-yambo

dchan said:


> In answer to your first group of questions, depends... we need more context to answer this question. What style shooting, distances, goals, level of shooting? I know I can get most of this by searching your history but having it in one place would help.
> 
> RE advantage? cheap.. easy to replace easy to field replace.. effective. Very little impact to the arrow for poor releases. especially if your clearance is marginal.
> 
> Cons, easy to break and not as adjustable..


I mainly shoot barebow from 20 yards to 70 meters. Before I have my current setup I used Super Rest with Hoyt Promedalist. With PM I could adjust the center shot at easily by turning a knob. The limbs of my PM broke and I switch to IFL with DX plunger and ZT-magnetic rest. I had a stiff learning curve at the beginning and now I am getting close to where I was before the limb broke. I shoot an average of 240 at 300 round (20 yards) and around 600 at 900 rounds (barebow on in both events). I replaced the Super rest whenever I had an unpredictable arrow flight ( completely missed the target).

If the only reason for using a Super rest is price, why would olympian use it? If you cut off the off the tab features, what is the different between the Super Rest with tabs cut off and magetic rest?


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## dchan

Re string walking..

My understanding is that if the bow is set up properly and arrows are spined close, as you release the string, the arrow should "hop" up slightly and leave the arrow rest. The arrow should clear the rest and riser just like with a properly setup recurve or even compound. .. In the interest of trying to understand the physics of it, I watched several slow motion highspeed videos of archers paradox from several styles including lots of string walkers.

All of the videos of decent tune and clearance, there was very little pressure or stress put on the rest. When the spine was stiff and there was a clearance problem, it was clear that string walking did put more stress on the rest. Also a few of the videos I watched showed string walkers with the nock set above the nock, without a nock locator below the nock. The high speed showed that without the bottom nock locator the nock end of the arrow did NOT stay put upon release. If the nock end slides down because of the angle of the string, it will slam into that arrow rest.

The take away here. Proper setup and a close tune should yield good arrow flight and clearance regardless of style of shooting.

Poor basic setup may cause undue stress to the arrow rest.

DC


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## rambo-yambo

Thanks Dchan,

By the way I am not a string walker. I have 2 anchor positions: 1 for 20 yards and another one for 30 yards and beyond. It is very interesting to read what you posted. I am just curious what is the difference in score for example, between TD3 w/o plunger and TD4 with plunger for professional with properly tuned bow? Does plunger make that much difference? Thanks,


----------



## bradd7

Just put one on my barebow. At first I thought it was flimsy but really works well! Can't beat the price!


----------



## bradd7

Just put one on my barebow. At first I thought it was flimsy but really works well! Can't beat the price!

*The take away here. Proper setup and a close tune should yield good arrow flight and clearance regardless of style of shooting. Poor basic setup may cause undue stress to the arrow rest.

between TD3 w/o plunger and TD4 with plunger for professional with properly tuned bow? Does plunger make that much difference? Thanks, *

I am NOT a pro tuner but from my observations over time;

We are talking two different things here. Most often we speak of paradox as left to right, but there is also an oscillation up and down as the nock slides across the rest. The arrow goes down the lane not in a fishtail or porpoise but in a circular motion as a result of both. For my own head-space I call this combined result 'wobble'. So fishing tailing and porpoising must be viewed individually. All we are doing is to eliminate or correct as much user error as possible so that the arrow shoots out as close as possible to if it was shot from a machine. The two factors are the form first, and arrow selection second.

Porpoising; The spine can be weak or stiff or just right. The determinate factor is how much time, and how much downward pressure, the arrow puts on the rest. Included in this factor, although unnoticeable, is the oscillation of the string from release. Meaning that the arrow is not only imparting a downward pressure but slight side to side motion as well. So, if the arrow is not properly spined, the more crooked it comes out of the bow and our goal is to get it leaving as straight as possible. This depends on the time it spends on the rest. If it is too weak or too stiff it will drag across the rest, giving more affect to the fishtail component and thus at a different angle besides straight. Coach Dchan says it 'hops' off the rest, and this is true. Any arrow will jump up determined by the nock point's downward pressure upon release. And this is what we are tuning for...the little hop, as any arrow drag and downwards pressure on the rest affects the angle at which the arrow leaves - which is indicated by a 'noticable' porpoising if way out of tune (There is always some porpoising but so small that we can't see it clearly unless it's video taped in slow motion.) So the goal is to get the least amount of arrow contact on the rest, at the right angle...nock height and best arrow spine. However, there is one more factor included and that is the amount of pressure the archer imparts on the individual fingers, which determines the amount of correction to the tuning needed - the cleaner (less input) the less corrections need to be made.

The plunger: In my experience, the only thing that the plunger does is to set the arrow tip as close to center as possible, dependent on the amount of correction of user error required (head position, eye contact, anchor etc.) In other words, it simply moves the groups around and does this by pushing or releasing the side to side movement of the arrow as it leaves - providing it makes contact with a node, for if not we get 'false' readings of impact. A machine would shoot straight forward from center shot as it pushed the string straight forward. The SPRING is what is most important, as this and the brace height serve to make the arrow 'act' weaker or stiffer. In effect, the spring makes tiny compensations to the weakness or stiffness of the arrow, based on the brace height used. So,in simpler terms, if the bow is braced to be as quiet as possible but the arrow is slightly stiff or weak, the spring compensates the for this discrepancy. It is NOT used to move the group but rather tighten it up, based on the amount of user error imparted, and error in brace height to arrow spine.

Make any sense?


----------



## chrstphr

bradd7 said:


> The plunger: In my experience, the only thing that the plunger does is to set the arrow tip as close to center as possible, dependent on the amount of correction of user error required (head position, eye contact, anchor etc.) In other words, *it simply moves the groups around* and does this by pushing or releasing the side to side movement of the arrow as it leaves - providing it makes contact with a node, for if not we get 'false' readings of impact. A machine would shoot straight forward from center shot as it pushed the string straight forward. The SPRING is what is most important, as this and the brace height serve to make the arrow 'act' weaker or stiffer. In effect, the spring makes tiny compensations to the weakness or stiffness of the arrow, based on the brace height used. So,in simpler terms, if the bow is braced to be as quiet as possible but the arrow is slightly stiff or weak, the spring compensates the for this discrepancy. * It is NOT used to move the group* but rather tighten it up, based on the amount of user error imparted, and error in brace height to arrow spine.
> 
> Make any sense?




Bradd7, with all due respect, stop posting your jibberish. You have no experience with a plunger as you shoot barebow and you are AGAIN giving incorrect information. The plunger DOES move the group. It does more than just set centershot, and tunes for tightest group and/or most forgiving shot. You should stop posting advice on disciplines and equipment you dont use. Even your own paragraph contradicts itself. This is a place where archers come for answers and you are muddying up the works with all your babble.

This forum is becoming Bradd7talk, and most of it is jibberish. You are bordering on being a forum troll. Most of your posts are posts that incite arguements and you are personally ruining this forum. 

High elbow and why use it? (while everyone else uses a high elbow draw and you dont)
No sight and no clicker but possible World record scores at Fita. why not?? ( enough said)
Archery legend at 12years old and after 44 years off, DOMINATING the Canadian Archery landscape after only one tournament!!!! 
70 meter thread expert, but dont shoot 70 meters and only tried it when you were 12 ( which you wouldnt have shot 70 meters then either), 
Focus on the process ( yet you cant even draw and anchor without waving your bow arm all over the place and have no process), 
Doesnt matter how you get there, yet from your videos you have no clue how to get there, and on and on and on. 

its too much. 


You are on my ignore list and 75& of this forum is now your jibberish blocked posts and threads. Thank for ruining the FITA forum. Looks like i will be finding a new home. 

Chris


----------



## bradd7

Actually Chris, I DO use a plunger so knock of the attempts to discredit. A plunger DOES NOT make tighter groups,it only compensates for the archers form -head position, eye position etc. Tighter a groups comes from the spring tension, to compensate for the spine and make it more forgiving.

Happy to see you go with that obnoxious attitude, and glad to be a help in that.


----------



## SoMe0nE2tAlK2

bradd7 said:


> A plunger DOES NOT make tighter groups...





bradd7 said:


> ...Tighter a groups comes from the spring tension,



I'm no champion or ever entered a tournament or anything so I'm far from an expert.
But I'm fairly sure said spring tension comes from the plunger.


----------



## midwayarcherywi

chrstphr said:


> Bradd7, with all due respect, stop posting your jibberish. You have no experience with a plunger as you shoot barebow and you are AGAIN giving incorrect information. The plunger DOES move the group. It does more than just set centershot, and tunes for tightest group and/or most forgiving shot. You should stop posting advice on disciplines and equipment you dont use. Even your own paragraph contradicts itself. This is a place where archers come for answers and you are muddying up the works with all your babble.
> 
> This forum is becoming Bradd7talk, and most of it is jibberish. You are bordering on being a forum troll. Most of your posts are posts that incite arguements and you are personally ruining this forum.
> 
> High elbow and why use it? (while everyone else uses a high elbow draw and you dont)
> No sight and no clicker but possible World record scores at Fita. why not?? ( enough said)
> Archery legend at 12years old and after 44 years off, DOMINATING the Canadian Archery landscape after only one tournament!!!!
> 70 meter thread expert, but dont shoot 70 meters and only tried it when you were 12 ( which you wouldnt have shot 70 meters then either),
> Focus on the process ( yet you cant even draw and anchor without waving your bow arm all over the place and have no process),
> Doesnt matter how you get there, yet from your videos you have no clue how to get there, and on and on and on.
> 
> its too much.
> 
> 
> You are on my ignore list and 75& of this forum is now your jibberish blocked posts and threads. Thank for ruining the FITA forum. Looks like i will be finding a new home.
> 
> Chris


Stick around Chris. I'm guessing the bradd7 insanity will run its course. I've not seen such a volume of poor information posted.....well, since I started participating on the FITA forum.


----------



## Stone Bridge

Chris, you are my new hero. Brad went on at length about his Spin-Wing experience earlier even after telling us he'd been out of archery for 44 years. It about made me vomit.

And that silly tag line with the 2nd place finish? Wesbock over on the Trad forum looked it up to find Brad did indeed finish second at some obscure Canadian championship recently. Trouble is there were only 2 guys entered including Brad. And he shot a smoking 227 for an NFAA 300. (I kid you not) You could say he came in second, but I'd say he finished a dead and distant last. 227! On my own death bed I'll be able to shoot that. LOL

I've noticed Brad tends to parrot what others say about different minutia related to archery and then he lends his own offbeat ideas. I don't think he understands how his lack of even basic knowledge comes to the fore. It both angers and amuses me.


----------



## dchan

rambo-yambo said:


> Thanks Dchan,
> 
> By the way I am not a string walker. I have 2 anchor positions: 1 for 20 yards and another one for 30 yards and beyond. It is very interesting to read what you posted. I am just curious what is the difference in score for example, between TD3 w/o plunger and TD4 with plunger for professional with properly tuned bow? Does plunger make that much difference? Thanks,


A lot depends on the tune without the plunger. Td3 may have an adjustable rest plate and you may be able to get that centershot set just right without a plunger. Then if you can get the arrow matched and tuned with regard to spine, you may be able to get the same or even better arrow flight out of a plunger less setup.

So there are a lot of other variables in play here.

Re your different anchors, if you are still drawing the string the same way (talking about hook on drawing hand) and your release remains constant. (Same release good or bad) then the arrow flight should stay the same.

Be aware that different anchors can yield different draw lengths and thus affect dynamic spine so again more things at play but hopefully you get the idea.


----------



## rambo-yambo

dchan said:


> A lot depends on the tune without the plunger. Td3 may have an adjustable rest plate and you may be able to get that centershot set just right without a plunger. Then if you can get the arrow matched and tuned with regard to spine, you may be able to get the same or even better arrow flight out of a plunger less setup.
> 
> So there are a lot of other variables in play here.
> 
> Re your different anchors, if you are still drawing the string the same way (talking about hook on drawing hand) and your release remains constant. (Same release good or bad) then the arrow flight should stay the same.
> 
> Be aware that different anchors can yield different draw lengths and thus affect dynamic spine so again more things at play but hopefully you get the idea.


Thanks DChan,

That might explain why I like the feel of my old riser. Wish I know it earlier and didn't sell my TD3 with adjustable rest plate. 

I change from under the chin for outdoor to side of the mouth for indoor, the draw length might change a little. Consider I am only pulling about 28# on my finger (28# limb, 223" riser and 26" DL), I don't expect a lot of change on the spine, please let me know if I am correct. Thanks for all your advise.


----------



## dchan

Kind of depends on how different the 2 anchors are.

I have seen people change DL by 1 or more inches between those two anchors. That can be 2-3 lbs draw weight.

That being said. If you are not shooting 28/30 per end consistently at 18M, you may not see any difference.

For indoors that slight spine change should not be a problem for most of us.

DC


----------



## TwilightSea

/casts revive on dead thread. 

I have a question concerning the super rest. I currently have a Shibuya Utima Rest but plan to swap it out with the Super Rest once my new limbs comes in next month. (I got tired of having to constantly readjust it.). I am using a clicker and plunger with my oly recurve, so I'm wondering if I have to have the space foam for the plunger before putting it on. Do I also have to remove the little finger so I get good clearance when using the clicker?


----------



## limbwalker

You don't have to remove that finger (although I usually trim it a bit for my student's bows, depending on how much "help" they may need keeping the arrow on the rest) but you may have to use the foam spacer. It all depends on the centershot of your riser. Just place it against your riser with and without the foam spacers and see how it looks. One of them will be the right one to use.


----------



## TwilightSea

I'm using a samick athelte riser


----------



## Delphin25

OK I'm a total beginner but I bought a Hoyt Excel 23" for my daughter and ordered more super rests and hunter rests to dial in the set up for her. 

From Hoyt 2014 recurve manual:
ADJUSTING CENTER SHOT
The final step of tuning is to position your center shot.
To start, position the arrow slightly outside of the center
of the bowstring. To do that, begin by nocking an arrow
and placing it on the arrow rest. Do not draw the bow,
but position yourself behind the string side of the bow,
looking down the arrow. Align the string down the center
of the limbs and riser and check to see the position of
the arrow tip relative to this line. Adjust the plunger or
arrow rest until the inside edge of the arrow shaft aligns
with this line.

I guess aligning "the inside edge" would make arrow point a bit left for right handed and right for left handed archers. 
I first tried one thin spacer and hunter rest and arrows came out of bow all fubared.
I tried one thick spacer/pad with super rest and the arrows seem to fly really nice. But the arrow points to the right not left as it should for a right handed shooter. right? Were using 1516 Eastons (thin) no plunger yet.
Seems like I need to use only the thin pad. right? ugh
So I read all these posts then I just called Hoyt to try and solve this mystery, and the customer service tech told me you can use both pads together if needed.
I'll test it all out again today as UPS truck is on the way LOL.
Should be able to get a fine starting point for a beginner until I add the plunger.
Seems like shooting in my garage at close range I can capture if the arrow is porpoising or fish tailing. Tried playing back video from the range too, didnt help. Tuning is so much fun. LOL


----------



## chrstphr

Delphin25 said:


> OK I'm a total beginner but I bought a Hoyt Excel 23" for my daughter and ordered more super rests and hunter rests to dial in the set up for her.
> 
> I guess aligning "the inside edge" would make arrow point a bit left for right handed and right for left handed.
> I first tried one thin spacer and hunter rest and arrow pointed way right and came out of bow all fubared.
> I tried one thick spacer/pad with super rest and the arrows seem to fly really nice. But the arrow still points to the right not left as it should for a right handed shooter. Were using 1516 Eastons (thin) no plunger yet.
> So I read all these posts then I just called Hoyt to try and solve this mystery, and the customer service tech told me to use both pads together to get the arrow to peak off to the left as described in the manual.
> Does seem odd to use 2 pads but if it works I'm going with it. Should be fine starting point for a beginner until I add the plunger.
> So I'm going to try this out as UPS should be here in a couple hours.


Hi , without using a plunger with the super rest, 

wood bows usually use the thin tape pad. Metal risers with more of a cutout for the window use the thicker pad. 

You can use both to get the arrow slightly outside of center. 

if you are using a plunger with the super rest, then you only need to use the thick pad. You will use the plunger itself to push the arrow out ( settin gcenter shot. 



Chris


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## c365

I've been using that Hoyt rest since I started 10 months ago and it's still like new. Put a lot of arrows through it so far, 5 days a week, 2 hours a day for ten months.


----------



## Delphin25

Thanks a bunch Chris.
I'll leave the thick pad and super rest on there until I get this all figured out.
What do people usually set up for full center shot or outside center shot?
Seems like there's no simple black and white answers.
I'll keep reading and researching, and maybe do some experimenting tonight with rests, pads and some painters tape. 
Seems like I need to use both pads to get arrow to point slightly outside center to the left.
You'd think this would be straight forward but I keep coming back and editing my post as I think I keep getting it backwards. ugh LOL


----------



## chrstphr

Delphin25 said:


> Thanks a bunch Chris.
> I'll leave the thick pad and super rest on there until I get this all figured out.
> What do people usually set up for full center shot or outside center shot?
> Seems like there's no simple black and white answers.
> I'll keep reading and researching, and do some experimenting tonight.


parallel arrows like outside of center. barreled shafts like X10s like center shot. For your daughter and most arrows you will shoot, outside of center will work best for you.

Chris


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## StarDog

Someone asked about string walking. I have walked the string with a SR with good results and no apparant effect on the rest.


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## limbwalker

StarDog said:


> Someone asked about string walking. I have walked the string with a SR with good results and no apparant effect on the rest.


I have one Adult Archery student who has done the same, for over a year now. They are remarkably durable with well tuned arrows.


----------



## kshet26

chrstphr said:


> parallel arrows like outside of center. barreled shafts like X10s like center shot. For your daughter and most arrows you will shoot, outside of center will work best for you.
> 
> Chris


Interesting, Apptitune says the opposite.


----------



## chrstphr

kshet26 said:


> Interesting, Apptitune says the opposite.


i have to go with real world results. My X10s always flew better with a centered center shot. My Carbon Express Medallions always like an outside center shot. 

Chris


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## limbwalker

kshet26 said:


> Interesting, Apptitune says the opposite.


Then it would be wrong.


----------



## Arsi

Pretty sure Apptitune says to start off with a certain center shot but you should adjust for center shot using walkback.


----------



## Warbow

kshet26 said:


> Interesting, Apptitune says the opposite.


It might be more complete to say _Jake Kaminski_ and Jesse Broadwater say the opposite, for those who aren't familiar with "Appitune", Appitune being a short ebook on tuning written by Jake and Jesse rather than an app that does spine calculations and stuff. It is sold in "app" form on Android and iOS.


----------



## hoytshooter15

I sorta hate when people bring up this rest thing because are we seriously pinning an archers victory on their rest?? Only one variable out of many. That's like saying, "Soccer player once again makes another goal using old cleats!" Its not really the cleats as it is the player, or archer in this scenario. Just my view on this.


----------



## Warbow

hoytshooter15 said:


> I sorta hate when people bring up this rest thing because are we seriously pinning an archers victory on their rest?? Only one variable out of many. That's like saying, "Soccer player once again makes another goal using old cleats!" Its not really the cleats as it is the player, or archer in this scenario. Just my view on this.


What?! Can I be reading this right, hoytshooter15 dismissing an equipment choice as making a difference in competition?


----------



## projayjay

Warbow said:


> What?! Can I be reading this right, hoytshooter15 dismissing an equipment choice as making a difference in competition?


+1 :mg:


----------



## kshet26

limbwalker said:


> Then it would be wrong.


That's what I figured when I first read that section. There are other quirks in there too. Sorry to derail: but a centered x10 at brace would be inside center at full draw due to the barrelling right?


----------



## limbwalker

hoytshooter15 said:


> I sorta hate when people bring up this rest thing because are we seriously pinning an archers victory on their rest?? Only one variable out of many. That's like saying, "Soccer player once again makes another goal using old cleats!" Its not really the cleats as it is the player, or archer in this scenario. Just my view on this.


You've missed the point, unfortunately, and put words in our mouths in the process. The point is that world class archers still choose this $2.50 rest to win major events. Nobody is "pinning an archer's victory on their rest." If that's what you see, you need to go back to reading comprehension 101.


----------



## limbwalker

kshet26 said:


> That's what I figured when I first read that section. There are other quirks in there too. Sorry to derail: but a centered x10 at brace would be inside center at full draw due to the barrelling right?


It would if it was truly centered. For X10, A/C/E, NPX, SST, I set them up so that I can "just" see the tip of the point to the left of the string. So, just a fraction outside of true center. I've not studied this in great detail, but I suspect this works because of the weaker tail section of those shafts that allows the main part of the shaft to remain in line with the target while the tail moves laterally. A parallel shaft has more of the rear half moving laterally, and therefore needs to be aligned more to the outside of center. 

At least, that's what my "shad-tree engineer" mind tells me.


----------



## Cephas

hoytshooter15 said:


> I sorta hate when people bring up this rest thing because are we seriously pinning an archers victory on their rest?? Only one variable out of many. That's like saying, "Soccer player once again makes another goal using old cleats!" Its not really the cleats as it is the player, or archer in this scenario. Just my view on this.


And those same archers who have invested thousands of hours in their sport trust that little piece of plastic. Does anyone really think they would risk using one if they didn't trust it 100%? We've used them exclusively from the beginning and never had one fail, you just have to replace them periodically. Just two weeks ago the daughter scored a 1331 cadet fita with what? A little plastic rest. The super rest is probably the best deal in all of archery.


----------



## limbwalker

Cephas said:


> And those same archers who have invested thousands of hours in their sport trust that little piece of plastic. Does anyone really think they would risk using one if they didn't trust it 100%? We've used them exclusively from the beginning and never had one fail, you just have to replace them periodically. Just two weeks ago the daughter scored a 1331 cadet fita with what? A little plastic rest. The super rest is probably the best deal in all of archery.


Nice. My daughter and wife's bows both sport some plastic.  I think that design should go on the "can't be improved upon" short list, along with spring-loaded mouse traps, clothes pins and paper clips.


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## theminoritydude

I'm totally enjoying this thread.


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## acco205

*reads entire thread*

Dangit, I just bought a $20 rest! I'll _never_ be an Olympian...

Seriously though, its just another thing that goes to show that its not the expensive gear that makes the shot, it all comes down to the nut holding it. Use what you trust and what makes you feel confident and that alone can improve your shot significantly.


----------



## limbwalker

Just think. You could have had a lifetime supply of Hoyt Super Rests for that same $20.


----------



## acco205

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻


----------



## chrstphr

there are also other arrow rests that are over engineered, have more parts to go wrong etc. A rest that is not consistent or acts up will make it difficult to group your arrows.

Hoyt Super rest is simple, consistent, effective and cheap. its a no brainer. 


But if you think the arrow rest has no bearing on your shooting, you are mistaken. In Antalya, after going to a tie in the Gold medal match, a German archer discovered his rest was broken. He had to switch to his backup bow for the one arrow shoot off. 

I am sure he felt he was pinning his chance of winning on a functioning arrow rest. 

He also won the shoot off. 


Chris


----------



## limbwalker

When was setting up my 2nd bow for Athens, I pulled off the magnetic flipper rest that was on it, and stuck on an NAP Flipper II rest, for one reason only. They are nearly indestructible. I would advise folks to consider a Super Rest on their 2nd bow, even if it's not what they use on their primary bow, for that same reason.


----------



## chrstphr

both my bows have a hoyt super rest. And there were a number of them at Anatalya on elite archers bows. 


Chris


----------



## projayjay

So not to derail the thread, but how much generally of the curvy part of the arm do you cut off? (with pictures?)


----------



## c365

projayjay said:


> So not to derail the thread, but how much generally of the curvy part of the arm do you cut off? (with pictures?)


Me I don't cut any of it off. Only thing I cut off is the tab behind the arm, if your using a plunger that is.


----------



## chrstphr

c365 said:


> Me I don't cut any of it off. Only thing I cut off is the tab behind the arm, if your using a plunger that is.


I agree. I leave the curvy tip complete. some people cut about half of it off, or 2/3rds off. its up to you. 

The side tab is for using the rest with no plunger. If you use a plunger, you can leave the tab or not. I tend to cut mine tab.


Chris


----------



## projayjay

Yeah I cut the tab, but sometimes the curvy tip is pushed out by the arrow because its so long and thin, and I know that that affects the consistency of the shots because it isn't touching the plunger when I shoot it and I was wondering if cutting it might make a difference.


----------



## limbwalker

If the curved "finger" is getting pushed out by the arrow, you need a thicker spacer between the rest and the riser. 

For my daughter, I cut off about 2/3 of the finger. For my wife, I leave it all on there as it helps her keep the arrow on the rest. I do the same for new archers. If I use one, I cut the whole finger off. With a plunger, I cut off the plastic tab. However, my daughter used just the rest, with no plunger, to shoot >540 indoor fita, so really you can use this rest with great effect without a plunger as well.


----------



## theminoritydude

We make arrow rests out of old plastic packaging of dampeners and stuff.......


----------



## Warbow

theminoritydude said:


> We make arrow rests out of old plastic packaging of dampeners and stuff.......


FITA has a PDF with some details. Are those similar to the kind you make?


----------



## limbwalker

Love that part of the FITA website. What an incredible document.


----------



## Warbow

limbwalker said:


> Love that part of the FITA website. What an incredible document.


I backtracked who edited the PDF for FITA to ask where the source info came from. I'm disappointed that I never heard back from them. There is some really interesting and creative stuff in there - including lots of stuff for barebow target shooting


----------



## grantmac

No arrow rest or other accessory can win you anything, but they can sure lose it for you. Simple works.

-Grant


----------



## TwentySix

So for a beginner with a Hoyt Excel, would you use the thicker backing? 1713 aluminum arrows will be shot.


----------



## theminoritydude

Warbow said:


> FITA has a PDF with some details. Are those similar to the kind you make?
> 
> View attachment 1977034
> View attachment 1977035


No. These are too cumbersome to make.


----------



## Warbow

theminoritydude said:


> No. These are too cumbersome to make.


Do you have any photos of the kind you do make? I'm always interested in the clever, simple homemade gear people make.


----------



## wags2

If memory serves me correctly, weren't the original super rest made with a thin layer of leather covering them? We used to make some our on own out of a plastic mild jug and used them on hunting recurves.


----------



## theminoritydude

Warbow said:


> Do you have any photos of the kind you do make? I'm always interested in the clever, simple homemade gear people make.


Sorry, forgot to take some pictures, will do that soon.


----------



## Warbow

theminoritydude said:


> Sorry, forgot to take some pictures, will do that soon.


Cool, thanks


----------



## OlyShoot

I'd like to learn more about this dark art too. I'm in process of setting up a Hoyt Aerotec. I've convinced myself that my center shot alignment is good, limb gauges string and long rod are centered. I've stuck the thick, thin and a layer of 3M foam tape to the back of the rest. The rest is held to riser with blue tape and plunger is holding arrow so point is just outside the string. When I pick up the arrow and let it drop to the rest the tape gives a bit but holds the arrow, but it looks like I should add another layer of 1/16" 3M foam tape. How much pressure should the hook place on the arrow. I'm guessing that if I add another layer of foam tape there will be about 2-3 mm gap between the arrow and the base of the rest. I'm using 1813 arrows. Does this sound reasonable


----------



## theminoritydude




----------



## theminoritydude

Use as thin a material as you could find

Swivel the two ends to achieve the desired slope(to stop the arrow from falling off) before sticking on the shelf.

Use thick foam tapes if flexing is desired.

There are many variations, your imagination is the limit.


----------



## OlyShoot

Thanks for the pics TMD. Not what I was expecting, but worth a test before I pull the release paper of the HSR. 

In the third pic there is what looks like a gas burner in background. How do you use heat to shape the plastic? Does the heat bend make the plastic more stiff or does it just reduce the stress on the tape?


----------



## theminoritydude

The heat helps to shape the rest, for easy application on the riser. But with a think enough piece of plastic, that is probably not required.


----------



## OlyShoot

Just curious how often do you need to replace due to wear?


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## theminoritydude

DO take note that this "contraption" was used to save money for a club full of beginners, instead of having to replace the very fragile $2.50 every time one of them fcks up his or her arrow rest. It is virtually free. 

No, I do not know how often it needs to be replaced. All I did was show how to make one to one of those beginners, and the next thing I realised, he was mass producing it on a large scale. At virtually ZERO cost.

And I didn't use an arrow rest for 3 years. Now I don't even shoot.


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## OlyShoot

If that were me I'd probably be bitter and angry. It's really tough to be an inventor when you are in it for profit.


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## Dacer

Olyshoot:

If you are using a plunger just stick the rest on with either foam pad, cut off the little built in "plunger" thing and stick it on. (I would use the thin one foam tape)

The different thickness pads are really for when you are not using an actual plunger.


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## limbwalker

The different thickness pads are so you have some compensation for the amount of centershot of your riser. Typically, wood risers need the thinnest adhesive pad, and metal risers (that have more clearance) use the thicker pad. Some metal risers have so much centershot (like my wife and daughter's PSE's) that they need both the thin and the thick adhesive pads to put the rest arm in the correct position - with or without the plunger.


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## OlyShoot

Ok thanks I stopped with just both thick and thin plus one extra strip 3M 1/16" foam tape. Figuring that because I'm using fatter Aluminum arrows I'm going to need just a touch more than those with skinny carbon arrows. Center shot looks really good. It'll be hard to wait till I can get to the club. The archers with home ranges are really fortunate. Next project is to tune and trim arrows. A Thank you to all posts for your help.


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## limbwalker

Fat arrows usually need fewer adhesive strips than thin arrows as the rest needs to be closer to the riser.


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## TwentySix

Any more pictures of Hoyt Super Rests on bows?


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## Azzurri

limbwalker said:


> The different thickness pads are so you have some compensation for the amount of centershot of your riser. Typically, wood risers need the thinnest adhesive pad, and metal risers (that have more clearance) use the thicker pad. Some metal risers have so much centershot (like my wife and daughter's PSE's) that they need both the thin and the thick adhesive pads to put the rest arm in the correct position - with or without the plunger.


If one used the thick pad when they should have used the thin, would it push arrows more left the further one backs up?


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## limbwalker

Assuming they are a RH archer, yes.


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## Azzurri

I made a goof on putting this rest on a project bow, methinks. I haven't had the time to diagnose it (once I saw what it was doing I just set it aside for later) so this may be the fix. Now thinking it's either that or leaving the plunger piece in to shoot aluminums off it. Thanks.


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## Dewboy

I've only had 300 or so Super Club 20/30's through my Super Rest and noticed today that the little finger is worn to the point is it barely able to stay up-right. It is paper thin where the little arm leaves the main part of the rest. I'm thinking maybe my nock point height is a little too low because I've heard these rests supposed to last 1000+ shots. Anybody else have a problem with the wearing that quickly?


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## MickeyBisco

Been seeing these more and more on the JDT kids' bows:


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## frankenarcher

Where do you get one of those?


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## huckduck

frankenarcher said:


> Where do you get one of those?


you just cut apart 3 super rests and arrange them to make one rest


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## frankenarcher

That would work, but the one in the photo appears to be all one piece


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## theminoritydude

Three pieces. The foam double sided tape is formed by two pieces to accommodate the extended rest formed by three rest arms.


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## frankenarcher

I see it now. Thanks =)


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## collider

Just curious.... what would 3 arms do for you that one wouldn't? Is this just so they last longer under kid duress, or is there a technical reason this would be good on your arrow?


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## DGZ

So, the tip at the end of the rest arm isn't needed? I ask because the one on mine just came off. But I'm shooting fine without it (better even!).


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## limbwalker

Tip is not needed. It's just helpful to many for keeping the arrow on the rest. Depending on the level of my archer, I will trim some, all or none of it.


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## bobnikon

Has anybody seen people still using the multiple rests?


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## bahboric

I use the super rest, like it a lot, but they don't seem to last very long for me. It doesn't take long for the vertical tip to wear off, and that is ok with me. But soon after that the end of the rest begins to wear down where the arrow lies on it. I begin to see a small concave worn off section, shaped like the arrow, and soon the arrow won't stay on the rest. Even with the clicker pushing against the arrow, the arrow often starts simply sliding off the rest. I am using both the thick and thin spacer, thought about trying to add another spacer, but I think the arrow would still wear out the rest and slide off (and then I'd worry the arrow might hit the rest). I don't see how Rick can get 25000 shots out of his, or even a fifth that. Are some arrows more abrasive than others (i'm using medallion XRs), or is my experience normal for Super Rests?


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## ShooterPhill

bobnikon said:


> Has anybody seen people still using the multiple rests?


I saw one shooter at the AZ Cup earlier this month using three


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## chrstphr

bahboric said:


> I use the super rest, like it a lot, but they don't seem to last very long for me. It doesn't take long for the vertical tip to wear off, and that is ok with me. But soon after that the end of the rest begins to wear down where the arrow lies on it. I begin to see a small concave worn off section, shaped like the arrow, and soon the arrow won't stay on the rest. Even with the clicker pushing against the arrow, the arrow often starts simply sliding off the rest. I am using both the thick and thin spacer, thought about trying to add another spacer, but I think the arrow would still wear out the rest and slide off (and then I'd worry the arrow might hit the rest). I don't see how Rick can get 25000 shots out of his, or even a fifth that. Are some arrows more abrasive than others (i'm using medallion XRs), or is my experience normal for Super Rests?


you shouldnt need both spacers. That is putting the rest too far out. The thin rest is for wood risers, the thick rest for metal risers. 

Put the arm of the rest slightly up. I have shot Hoyt super rests for months with the tip shot off, the arm having a dent where the arrow goes etc. Rest still shoots great. If the arrow is falling off the rest, you are hitting the arrow with your finger spacer when you grip the string and pushing the arrow off the arm. I shoot the hoyt rest with tip on, with tip cut short, with tip gone and all ways in between. You can shoot the rest until the arm breaks off. then you have to replace it. 

Sounds like your arrows are stiff if you are breaking the tip off quickly. 

I would not add another spacer. Your center shot will not be correct. 

Chris


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## bahboric

chrstphr said:


> you shouldnt need both spacers. That is putting the rest too far out. The thin rest is for wood risers, the thick rest for metal risers.
> 
> Put the arm of the rest slightly up. I have shot Hoyt super rests for months with the tip shot off, the arm having a dent where the arrow goes etc. Rest still shoots great. If the arrow is falling off the rest, you are hitting the arrow with your finger spacer when you grip the string and pushing the arrow off the arm. I shoot the hoyt rest with tip on, with tip cut short, with tip gone and all ways in between. You can shoot the rest until the arm breaks off. then you have to replace it.
> 
> Sounds like your arrows are stiff if you are breaking the tip off quickly.
> 
> I would not add another spacer. Your center shot will not be correct.
> 
> Chris


If I don't have both spacers on, the only thing that holds my arrow on the rest is the tip, because the rest doesn't stick far enough out to hold it without the tip. I have a W&W Inno Max, and maybe the relevant distance is greater since it is not a metal riser. Or perhaps I have the center shot too far out (though I have it adjusted so the tip of the arrow is just outside the string). With the tip broke off and both spacers, the rest sticks out just a hair past the middle of the arrow; if I don't use both spacers, I'm sure the end of the rest wouldn't make it to the middle of the arrow (though I'd have to check again--it's been a while). The rest works fine until it begins to wear down (your description of it as a dent is probably more accurate). It is wearing down from the top end of the rest, which then makes the arrow just slide off the rest, even with the clicker. Maybe I'll try to move the centershot in a bit. Also, I don't have one of those thick finger spacers (I'm using the stock one that came with the AAE tab), so maybe I'll try a thicker finger spacer, and try to make sure I'm not pushing the arrow off the arm.

I have never tried putting the arm of the rest slightly up.

I don't think the arrows are too stiff. I'm 34lbs otf using medallion 800s (sometimes 900s) cut to 29.75" with 110gn pts. 

Thanks for your thoughts; I really want to be able to shoot a rest for months (I don't care if the tip is shot off).

Ric


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## lksseven

bobnikon said:


> Has anybody seen people still using the multiple rests?


Bob,

I've had a second rest (the second rest is a Hoyt Super Rest, and still has the tip intact after probably 15,000 shots) on my setup for a year now. Shot the best outdoor season of my career last Summer/Fall. Can't swear for a fact that 'two rest' solution was actually a significant contributor. But my 'sense' of it is that my group 'vertical dispersion' is smaller as a result. So, I figure 'it can't be hurting me'.


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## limbwalker

> you shouldnt need both spacers. That is putting the rest too far out. The thin rest is for wood risers, the thick rest for metal risers.


While this is correct, there are a few risers like the PSE's that will need both spacers stacked together to put the arm in the proper position. They have more centershot clearance than most metal risers. This is how my wife and daughter's PSE X-factors are set up.


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## chrstphr

I shoot the AAE finger tab with spacer. If i get a deep hook, the end of the spacer will hit the arrow and psih it off the rest. I use to grind the spacer shorter. Nowni have proper fonger hook and that doesnt happen as often. So i listed it as a cause.


I had not heard that PSE risers needed both spacers. Some of my JOAD kids shoot the Inno Max and only use the thick spacer. Maybe the bow plane is off on your bow and thats why the centershot is so far out. That would also cause the tip and arm to not last long.

Chris


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## limbwalker

> I had not heard that PSE risers needed both spacers. Some of my JOAD kids shoot the Inno Max and only use the thick spacer. *Maybe the bow plane is off on your bow and thats why the centershot is so far out.* That would also cause the tip and arm to not last long.




<sigh>

Chris, it's a simple measurement. More centershot than other risers = both spacers for PSE's. That's all there is to it.


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## chrstphr

Yes, but Inno Max is WinWin riser, not PSE. 

He says he has WinWin Inno max riser. 

Chris


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## limbwalker

Understood. I just posted for those following who may run into a PSE riser and who read "you shouldnt need both spacers."

Just trying to add to the knowledge base. You know - Archers helping archers...


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## bahboric

Although I was confident my bow was in plane (I checked in a few months ago), since I changed limbs recently, I just rechecked and discovered it was not in plane. Once I got it in plane, the centershot was a full arrow's width outside the string. I have readjusted so the arrow pt is just to the side of the string, and I now have a bit more arrow on the rest. I'm attaching a photo which shows the arrow sitting on the rest. As you can see, with the thin and thick spacer, the rest does extend beyond the center of the arrow. Does this look similar to what it should be, or do you still think I should not use the thin spacer? I worry that if I did not also use the thin spacer, it would be just a hair past the middle, and would fall off easier. I'm now going to go to the range to see how changing the plane and centershot will affect shooting.









(the arrow hits the plunger a hair below the middle of the plunger; it doesn't look like that in the photo, but the photo is deceiving)

I suspect Chris is right that my hook plays some role in this, and I'm going to work on that.
Thanks,
Ric


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## limbwalker

That looks perfect to me.


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## Wobbley

So I had no idea that there even were spacers. When I have ordered these I just get the Hoyt Super Rest. No foam spacer.

So on my Hoyt Horizon I just slapped the rest against the metal riser and dialed out the plunger until I had the arrow centered to start.

I thought the arrow looked like it was way out on the end of the rest, only held on by the tip.

But the arrow doesn't fall off the rest when I draw.

Is this a problem? Or do I need to post a pic for review of what I am trying to say?

Instead on foam spacers is there a more permanent solution to move the rest attachment point?


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## limbwalker

Foam spacers are really what you need. I have also used two or three layers of double-sided outdoor mounting tape, but I prefer the foam adhesive spacers that (usually) come with the rest.

I would not continue to shoot with the arrow out on the "finger" of the rest.


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