# Bow says "AMO-52", 50 lbs-28ins." What length string???



## jw0312 (Sep 3, 2010)

I believe the rule of thumb is to subtract 4" for recurves and 3" for long bows. So, if your bow is a recurve, you'd want to find you a 48" string. BUT, I'd wait and get confirmation from someone smarter than me since I'm a newb to traditional.


----------



## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

mine is a Ben Pearson Spoiler. I think that's a recurve????? Again I know nothing about traditional archery so if I am wrong let me know.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

WW - 

jw is correct, typically you'll need a 48" string - but the optimal length can vary a little.

What kind of bow is it? New or vintage? If it's an older bow, then we're talking about a DACRON string, and typically 14 strands. Most fairly new bows can handle fast flight type materials, but you might want to check with the manufacturer or a reliable source, familiar with that bow.

Next, if this is your first venture into stickbows, then a 52", 50# is probably one of the worst combinations to start with. If you've been doing this for a while, disregard the last sentence. 

edit: the BP spoiler is Dacron only. I'm generally a fan of BP bows, but my last comments still holds. Also, of your draw length (on that bow) is over 28", the bow will stack (almost like hitting the wall on your compound) and the odds are you won't like it.

Viper1 out.


----------



## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

Viper1.......Yes this is my first one. Just wondering why a bad starting combo? Bow is Vintage. What arrow set up for a bow like this?


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

WW -

It's too heavy and too short to learn on. The bow has no left off so you're holding 50# at 28" and possibly considerably more, due to stacking if your DL is over 28". Then there's something called finger pinch; while somewhat subjective, shorter bows have a tighter angle around the fingers and that makes the release that much harder to learn.

After teaching this stuff for a few years, I've yet to see a new stickbow shooter do well with a first bow with those specs.

If you're really interested in this kind of stuff, think about a training bow in the 30# range and over 62". The exact length will depend somewhat on your draw length or purpose of the bow. Possibly a take down bow with a light set of limbs to start and a heavier set later on.

Viper1 out.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

White Wizzard said:


> Viper1.......Yes this is my first one. Just wondering why a bad starting combo?


Because it is a relatively heavy bow, and a very short bow. Short bows tend to stack--that is they tend to start getting disproportionately harder to draw as you near full draw length. Subjectively, they don't draw as smoothly and easily as a longer bow of similar design. 

Recurve archery is very much about learning good form, and starting out with a relatively heavy bow can make it harder to learn good form when starting. A heavy bow can encourage bad form. Many people unconsciously short draw their heavy bows when learning. They hunch their shoulders, bend their bow arm, lean their face forward, don't draw their draw arm into good alignment, bend their bow arm, arch their back. All sorts of bad habits that people are less likely to develop if they start with a light, smooth drawing bow.

This is not to say that you may not succeed with the set up you have--many people do. But I'd say more people get frustrated and give up archery at some point because they started off overbowed.


----------



## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

Viper1.....I've got a 20 pounder that is about 56" long. No idea on the dl. would that be a better place to start? If so what arrow set up?


----------



## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks warbow....same questions to you above???


----------



## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

If neither of these are a good set up for a beginer, what do you guys recommend? My dl is 29-29 1/2" and I shoot a 60 pound compound if that matters.


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

WW -

Depends on the bow. Gut reaction is that it may be a "kids" bow. That has less to do with the draw weight, but a combination of the length and design. If designed for a kid's draw length, it may stack or even fail if drawn to over 28". That's speculation of course, since we don't know enough about the bow. 

You can carefully try (draw) both bows and see what they feel like. You might want to do a little Internet research on basic stickbow form if you're not familiar with it. The principles are similar to shooting a compound, but details are a little different.

Viper1 out.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

White Wizzard said:


> Viper1.....I've got a 20 pounder that is about 56" long. No idea on the dl. would that be a better place to start? If so what arrow set up?


I'd say "yes," that would be a better set up to start with. Still pretty short, but length is also a bit subjective. People coming from compound are used to short bows, but the cams, cables (for mechanical efficiency) and mechanical releases (no finger pinch) are what make that possible. In a simple recurve or long bow, longer is smoother, all other things being equal (their are certain kinds of limb design that can help somewhat). But, even among trad shooters, hunters often tend to use shorter bows than trad target shooters. A target shooter with your draw length would typically shoot a 68-70" recurve. With hunters, it varies more. Even so, 56# is still on the short side. At the program I teach at I wouldn't start you on anything shorter than a 64# recurve, and preferably you'd shoot a 66# or longer--but our program is primarily target oriented. Even so, all the form and bow handling skills are the same.

There is another advantage to a really light bow like the 20# bow--an advantage that might not seem like one. Light bows are harder to shoot accurately with! With a heavy bow, the string rips past your fingers, so it is more forgiving of variations in your loose. Not so much with a light bow. That forces you to learn better form and to not use the heavy bow as a crutch for bad form.


----------



## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

OK so if you were going to set a complete newbie to trad archery up with a new set up, what would you recomend? (Both of these bows that I have now can be wall hangers for all I care. They were just convenient) Could I go right to a bow that will kill something or should I start with a low poundage bow and get my form and technique down and then move up? I am really interested in trad hunting, but would prefer to learn it the right way so in the long run I would be more consistantly accurate. Thanks again for the info guys!


----------



## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

since most lose a bit of draw length going from wheels to sticks, youll likely only be drawing about 28 or so, so I would not worry about stacking.


----------



## White Wizzard (Sep 1, 2009)

Stacking??????? How to measure draw lenght for recurve??????? Is there a sticky on all this info somewhere so I'm not waisting a bunch of your guys time?


----------



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

WW - 

Here you go on equipment:

*First Traditional Bow and Accessories - suggestions*
Revised 4/4/11

*Bow –*
Recurve or longbow? While certainly a personal preference, the grip, physical weight and balance of a modern recurve will typically lessen the learning curve over most longbows. However, whatever bow you chose must appeal to you on some gut level. If you’re not happy with it, you’re not going to want to shoot it!

These days, I’m hard pressed to recommend anything other than an ILF rig for a new shooter. The functionality, versatility and tuneability can not be matched with any one piece or simple takedown bow. Most adult males interested in traditional archery should start in the 30 - 35# range AT THEIR DRAW LENGTH. The bow must be light enough so that the draw weight doesn’t factor into the shot sequence.

*Risers –*
The 23” Hoyt Excel ILF riser is an excellent choice for archers preferring a longer bow in the 64” – 68” range, The 21” Excel a better cruiser length bow and can be equally at home on target range or in the hunting field, lengths are between 62” and 66”.
Any of the longer risers are more suited for dedicated target rigs.

*Limbs –*
The Samick Privilege and Sebastian Flute Axiom limbs are inexpensive and excellent
shooting limbs. Stick to wood core limbs with fiberglass or carbon surfaces, as carbon
core limbs provide no advantage to beginner or intermediate shooters. The older KAP TRex limbs are also good, but were discontinued a while back. Hoyt limbs are good
shooters, but tend to be pricier, without any added benefit.

Lancaster Archery Supply (LAS) / Trad Tech Archery (TT) is selling Samick limbs with a matte black finish, that are quite reasonable in price and possibly more aesthetically
pleasing to potential traditional bow hunters. Performance is similar to the standard
Samick target limbs, but they are available in higher draw weights.

Limb length (short, medium or long) depends on draw length. Most people with or near a 28” draw should opt for a 62- 64” or longer bow for the first time out. Most ILF limbs will gain or lose 1# per inch of riser length. For example, a 40# pair of
limbs rated on a 23” riser will actually weigh 42# on a 21” riser and 38# on a 25” riser
The Black Max limbs have been weighed / rated on a LAS/TT 17” riser and not the more standard 23” and 25” risers. Due to the difference in the angle the limbs attach to the riser, the limbs will weigh approximately the same on a 21” riser as they do on a LAS/TT 17” riser. (Yes, it can get confusing. If you have doubts about the weight, call the vendor and have them weigh the combination YOU ARE BUYING before they send it out.) You should be able to find an Excel riser and appropriate starter limbs in the $250 – 300 range with a little shopping around.

The above bows are called “take down” bows meaning they come apart into a riser
section and a pair of limbs. Other than the obvious advantage in transport, this design
allows you to buy extra limbs when you decide you want more weight or change length, without having to buy a whole new bow.

*Vintage bows –*
Another option for new traditional archers is a vintage bow. Bows made in the late 1960’s through the early to mid 1970’s are available from some dealers, eBay and even
(sometimes) garage sales. The same criteria applies: keep the weight in the mid 30#
First Traditional Bow and Accessories- suggestions range, the length over 62” and the price as low as possible! If possible, examine the bow for cracks or glue line separations before buying.

*Strings –*
For modern ILF bows, a 14 strand D97 string of the appropriate length will handle any weight from 20# - 50# and provide perfect nock fit when used with a .020” serving and small groove “G” nocks (see below). For vintage bows, only use DACRON strings, typically a 12 strand string will be appropriate for bows in the recommended weight range. Having a spare string is also a good idea.

*Bow stringers –*
Bateman or Cartel bow stringers. Yes, you need one! Please do not string any bow by hand with the “step- through” or “push-pull” methods – for your safety and that of the bow!

*Rests –*
For modern bows with plunger holes – NAP Centershot Flipper or a rest/plunger combination.

For vintage bows – Bear Weather rest or similar. Most vintage bows will allow you to shoot off the shelf, but for a new shooter, it adds an unnecessary complication.

*Stabilizer –*
Not really necessary on a traditional bow, but I’ve been using them so long most recurves just don’t feel right without them. A short, 4” – 6” hunting stabilizer can be bought or made.

*Bow cases –*
Several hard cases are available from Neet, Cartel, and a number of others for take down bows. One piece bows can be carried in hard or soft cases.

*Arrows –*
Start with aluminum arrows. Even the Easton Blues are acceptable, if you can deal with blue arrows. Any xx75 grade aluminum shaft is fine. Typically traditional shooters use screw in points of 100 – 125 grains on aluminum arrows.

*Quiver –*
Personal choice. Almost any side, hip or back quiver will work. Consider one with an accessory pocket to carry things like extra nocks, strings etc…

*Tabs (finger protection) –*
For target oriented shooters – Cavalier/AAE. The tab size is based on the width, not the length.

For bow hunting archers – SAM (Super Archery Mitt) currently sold by Martin archery. It has an unusual design, but is the most (finger) protective one out there.

There are a number of other tabs on the market, from Saunders, Neet, etc., and most are usable for new shooters; avoid tabs with “hair” layers. Their durability isn’t great.

I would avoid “gloves” for new shooters. While they seem simpler, they can make the release trickier and finding the right size may be problematic. For more experienced shooters, it becomes a matter of preference.

*Arm guard –* Any one you like, just keep it simple! (Yes, you’ll need one.)

*Accessories –*
Nocking points, bow squares, etc. can be fabricated from some household items or borrowed from the local range or club.

Viper1 out.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

White Wizzard said:


> Stacking??????? How to measure draw lenght for recurve??????? Is there a sticky on all this info somewhere so I'm not waisting a bunch of your guys time?


Nah, too many opinions round here for people to agree on a FAQ. 

As to stacking. On a compound the cam set up determines the draw force you need as you pull through the full length of your draw. It is set up so it peaks and then rolls over to let off. Recurves don't have that kind of tunability. They just get harder and harder to pull as you get closer to your full draw length. People generally prefer a bow that feels smooth on the draw--a linear relationship between how many extra pound you pull per inch. A bow that stacks is one where the pounds start to pile on as you get near your full draw length. Imagine drawing your compound to just before peak weight and holding it there. That is a bow that stacks. For conventional (non-compound) bows, longer bows stack less than shorter bows of the same time. 

Really short bows can stack a lot, and may not be designed to go up to your draw length. But it varies between specific makes and models.


----------



## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

on average, a bow gains 2-3 lbs per inch its drawn. Stacking is a point at which when drawing another inch the bow gains say 4-5 lbs.


----------



## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

WW - Viper1 (the guy answering your questions) has a book called "Shooting the Stickbow". It is an excellent resource for any Traditional shooter, new or experienced. It sells for $20 on amazon and is highly recommended. I'd go so far as to say make that your first trad purchase. Good luck with it.


----------

