# BOWTECH GUARDIAN...."SECRET AGENT" pics......



## mirage55

I went in search of, and personally found, a Bowtech "Secret Agent" today.
I visited "Secret Agent Fromm" @Oakridge Archery, Kasota, MN today and came across a brand new Bowtech Guardian.
The bow shot like nothing I have ever shot before.
Bowtech is not kidding: There is Zero shock & Zero vibration. 
The bow shot the same @varying poundage, shot the same with or without a stabilizer: Zero shock/Zero vibration.
Design-wise the bow is a work of art.
The riser & limbs were flawless and absolutely stunning.
The pics posted by Bowtech and in their catalog do not do the bow justice. 
(I will attempt to change that!)
When I viewed the pics posted on Bowtech's website and on A.T., I was very---very skeptical---I did not like the design and thought the bow looked flat out weird.
You have to see the bow in person, and shoot it, to fully appreciate this piece of "Archery Technology".
The bow is flat out cool looking---and flat out SHOOTS.
The way the limbs form a "perfect arc" @full draw is just short of amazing.
I will post a few pics tonight and more Sunday before noon.
Contact Donnie Fromm @Oakridge Archery, Kasota, MN for specifics regarding the bow. 
"Secret Agent Fromm" can be reached @507-931-5637. 
email: [email protected]


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## Norwegian Woods

Thanks for your report. Looking forward to see some pics of it.
Did they have the Commander there too?:tongue:


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## mirage55

*No Commander....Just Guardian*

Lucky to receive Guardian. Keep in mind---these bows are "Top Secret".
Top limb.


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## Jose Boudreaux

sweet


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom limb.


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## Jose Boudreaux

sweet times 2


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom of riser.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Top of riser......I even think this one is SWEEEEEET!!!


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## PABowhunt4life

So instead of taking pictures of the whole bow, you only took pictures of sections lol?


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## Jose Boudreaux

PABowhunt4life said:


> So instead of taking pictures of the whole bow, you only took pictures of sections lol?


he is showing off his top notch photography work with a camera that is worth more than my life :shade:


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## PABowhunt4life

Jose Boudreaux said:


> he is showing off his top notch photography work with a camera that is worth more than my life :shade:


I know, I'm just busting his chops


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## Jose Boudreaux

PABowhunt4life said:


> I know, I'm just busting his chops


yeh, I get the smileys :angel:


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

You've already seen the whole bow from Bowtech---these shots show "Archery Technology" at its finest!!

I've got full length shots....please be patient....I've already spent 5 hours on this little "Top Secret" project. (You know it is 3:15a.m.)!!!

I'll go tweak a few more....give me about 15 minutes.


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## Jose Boudreaux

well hurry up so you can get to bed.....I'm a second shifter with the after affects of tri-chloramine fumes...that equals no sleep


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## AKDoug

I have to admit that the Guardian and the Commander are the only two bows released so far this year that piqued my interest at all. I could only imagine one of these in target colors..they are definately cool.

No way I'll be able to buy one this year, but if anyone would donate one to me I will take it with me to N.C. and school OBT with it...win one for the blowies since nobody else can seem to get it done  

Can't wait till they make it to the classifieds in a month...LOL


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## Jose Boudreaux

> Can't wait till they make it to the classifieds in a month...LOL


if that happens they will be fetching about 15% more than the MSRP


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Grip.
Grip is super.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom limb @rest.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom limb.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom cam.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom cam...other side.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom limb @full draw.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Bottom limb...other side.


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## Jose Boudreaux

sweetness.....nice work...JB


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Nope....."This ain't your Daddy's Bow".


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## mirage55

*"Secret Agent Fromm"*

This is "Secret Agent Fromm".....give him a call Sunday morning....he likes to talk about Bowtech....507-931-5637. email: [email protected]

More to come.....I'll finish pics later.


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## mirage55

*Pics...*



Jose Boudreaux said:


> sweetness.....nice work...JB


Thanks JB....Bill.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Full length......I kinda like it.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Other side.....good night.


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## Norwegian Woods

mirage55 said:


> Thanks JB....Bill.


Thanks!!!
Really nice work:thumbs_up 
The pics are great!
That bow is just Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!
A great work of art.
I just can`t wait till I get my Commander.
Please try to get some pics of the Commander too


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## mirage55

*Commander...*



Norwegian Woods said:


> Thanks!!!
> Really nice work:thumbs_up
> The pics are great!
> That bow is just Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!
> A great work of art.
> I just can`t wait till I get my Commander.
> Please try to get some pics of the Commander too


Thanks NW.....Donnie has several Commanders on order---that's the bow he plans on shooting for competition this coming year.
As soon as it comes in, (his is ordered in "smoked chrome"), I'll photograph the bad boy!!


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## PABowhunt4life

Man, I will give you credit, those are some saweeeet pictures my man. That being said, still not a fan of the bow itself


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## Norwegian Woods

mirage55 said:


> Thanks NW.....Donnie has several Commanders on order---that's the bow he plans on shooting for competition this coming year.
> As soon as it comes in, (his is ordered in "smoked chrome"), I'll photograph the bad boy!!


Do it quick man!
I don`t know if I will be able to sleep before I see the pics


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## Bellows1

Great pictures!


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## arrowblaster

mirage55 said:


> Bottom limb...other side.


OOOHHHH! Now I see!! What holds front of limb retainer in riser? GREAT PICS!!:shade:


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## amwcps35

*Wow!!!*

VERY IMPRESSIVE BOW!!! Thanks for sharing the information and the pictures!!


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## niteshade

PABowhunt4life said:


> Man, I will give you credit, those are some saweeeet pictures my man. That being said, still not a fan of the bow itself



wait untill you shoot it......you just might change your mind


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## TheHairlessone!

Awesome photos. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Looks like it should be a sweet shooter.

rick


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## BradMc26

Awesome pics! Do you do photography for a living?

I will admit when this bow first came out I thought it was ugly. But after looking at it for a month and now after your photos it looks SWEET. I have it narrowed down between this and the Equalizer. Now I just have to convince the wife that I need a new bow.

My question is how does the limb stay attached to the riser? It looks like it is coming off the riser when the bow is at full draw. Can you explain?


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## metalarcher

WOW Nice pictures.... At first I was worried that they, this thread and pictures, would “self destruct in 5 seconds” as the typical tape would when the agents get the information.. and take my computer with it! It did not happen Whew!

The way the limbs form a semi circle….. Weird!! This is not a parallel limb bow anymore..

SOOoo ugly it is almost cute!


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## Marcus

Ordering tomorrow, those pictures seal the deal!


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## Soumi

Man, I was ready to order an Equalizer and now you got me thinking too. Will this thing perform with a 26" draw at 60lbs? I could just imagine that in Black marble.


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## YankeeRebel

Awesome pic's. I cannot wait to shoot one of them. Thanx for sharin' mirage55. :thumbs_up


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## TheHairlessone!

those bows are a work of art! :thumbs_up

rick


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## Mathias

Thanks for the effort. I can hardly wait for mine to arrive...


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## upserman

Looks like there is a rod extention that goes up in the riser on the front of the limb.It seems to me when the bow is released there would be contact there along with that noise.Also seems to be more moving parts to wear and keep in time.

Awesome pictures and the bow is sure cool looking. Thanks 

Bob


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## PA.JAY

great pictures ! now the questions ! were the moving elbow connects to the limbs is that how you get the D/W ? or let off maybe. seems that has adjustment to do something.


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## Chasin

That just sealed the deal for me as well...

Also looks like the Limb Driver rests will work on the Gaurdian.:smile: :smile:


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## MWoody

looks to me like the bow manufactures are swaying towards cross bows...or rifles. If i do get a new bow it will be an 06 Bowtech or i'll stick to my stick bow.


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## Alan in GA

*interesting*

look where the drop away arrow rest cord is anchored.


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## vonottoexperien

Awesome, totally diff. than any other :teeth:


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## Norwegian Woods

Alan in GA said:


> look where the drop away arrow rest cord is anchored.


I know.
Has anyone else seen that on other bows?


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## jimposten

I heart bowtech.


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## BogeyMan

Norwegian Woods said:


> I know.
> Has anyone else seen that on other bows?



Its looks to be a limbdriver rest. They connect the same on all bows.:shade:


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## meanv2

Nice Pics!!!

Now I just need to get my Hands on my Guardian. Can anyone say HD Hardwoods smoked flame limbs?


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## Norwegian Woods

BogeyMan said:


> Its looks to be a limbdriver rest. They connect the same on all bows.:shade:


OK, thanks.
I have never seen a rest like that here in no mans land Norway:embara: 
I guess that is why you have the name of the rest:embara:


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## pdq 5oh

Great pics. Wish you hadn't blown SA Fromm's cover, though. :shade: Did he have any idea as to delivery on Commanders?


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## Norwegian Woods

meanv2 said:


> Nice Pics!!!
> 
> Now I just need to get my Hands on my Guardian. Can anyone say HD Hardwoods smoked flame limbs?


Just give me the Commander in HD Hardwoods Green.
I can`t wait to get my hands on mine.
I was eager about it before, but no I am really exited. It`s like when you know that a BIG buck is heading your way


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## michihunter

I think Bowtech really took technology to the extreme with this bow. Where else can you get a bow that you can use to hang your wet socks out to dry while shooting at the next B&C buck?


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## TailChaser

Looks awesome to me. Not sure about the one limbsaver on top, but I like the bow. Wish I had one.


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## PA.JAY

> Not sure about the one limbsaver on top,


i think thats for the limb driver rest.


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## Paul S.

You just made me want one! Nice pictures, I can't wait to shoot it!


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## bigrackHack

Gotta admit, that's nice machineing. Two thumbs up for quality work.


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## LeesburgGamecoc

I think the concept of the bow is fantastic, and it looks great in the pics. I will shoot one, but may not run out and buy one right away even if it turns out to be the best shooting bow on the market. That is for a couple of reasons. Number one, I love my Tribute and it is an awesome shooter. I just click with that bow. Secondly, the Guardian and Commander do so much new, from the center limb brace, to the totally new cams, to the limb pocket, or lack therof design. It all looks very good, I just want to make sure it all works well in application. History with Bowtech says it will as they are good at moving the design of bows and bringing out new things, but I will likely wait and see how it goes and if any areas need to be refined. If I didn't have a Tribute that I like so much, I would have no hesitation trying one of these if it shot really well for me, based on Bowtech's record of preformance. One thing that surprised me is the way you can see the limb bolt sleeve when the limbs are backed out, that is interesting and I want to see how that works out. One thing I appreciate is Bowtech really being aggressive in design and pushing the envelope. It helps us as consumers, whether we buy Bowtech or not.


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## deadquiet

I really like what I see and can't wait to put some arrows thru one. I'm really intrested in the Commander but I gotta' wait and see what Ross brings to the table. I just love this time of the year!


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## beretta16

That bow is amazing.


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## Hemingway

Excellent pics mirage55, thanks for sharing!!! Can't wait to get my smoke chrome Commander in!!!


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## banner

*pressing the gardian*

Great pictures. One question I have lokking at the picts is how to adjust peeps ect. Doe the limb bolts relax enough to work on the bow? From the pictures it doesn't look like it would work in most presses.


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## heavy dart

I never thought the bow was ugly,just unique,and the look grows on you the more you see it.
Pressing the bow could be as easy as wrapping a racheted strap behind the cams.
As said above this is the only 07 bow that really catches interest.If it shoots,BT's delivery dates will be as bad Hoyt has been in the past.
Thanks for the excellent pictures.


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## mirage55

*Thanks For All The Pic Compliments....*

Thanks for all the pic compliments---much appreciated.
I'll try to answer a few questions and give a few more comments--then post the remainder of the pics.
Yes, that is a limb driver, and it is attached to the top limb---this bow performs flawlessly with this rest.
On the pics with the bow being shot---the limbs are cranked way out because these are 70lb. limbs, and Donnie wanted to have everyone practice at a lower poundage. We did shoot it cranked up as well---shot great.
For the skeptics---you really have to go see this bow. I thought the Bowtech pics showed the bow as just another "goofy" idea---but when you see it in person---it is completely different.
There was a very accomplished "Hoyt" shooter test driving the bow yesterday and he couldn't put it down----HMMMMMMMM!!!
Call "Secret Agent Fromm" with specific questions--like I said---he likes to talk about Bowtechs!!
Oh---Donnie did not have any idea when the Commanders would be shipped.
My apologies---I completely spaced out asking about pressing the bow---I'll track down that info today.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Top cam.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Top riser/limb.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Limb bolt.


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Top 1/2 of bow.


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## walks with a gi

Sure looks like you get a lot for the money, looking at all the machine work and engineering it looks like is necessary to produce this bow:shade:


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## mirage55

*Guardian...*

Other side of top 1/2.

That's it.
Pretty much shot every angle.
Forgot to shoot the back side of the top cam---I think that's about all I missed.

Enjoy: Bill


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## mirage55

*Great details....*



walks with a gi said:


> Sure looks like you get a lot for the money, looking at all the machine work and engineering it looks like is necessary to produce this bow:shade:



I totally agree.
The details in the bow are incredible.
The way they scalloped the vertical edges is really cool---Bowtech's pics don't show any of these details.
Look at the last two pics I posted---these show the shaved edges great.
I cannot imagine what this bow will look like in "smoked chrome".....it is going to be so sweeeet!!!---plus, like I said---IT SHOOTS.


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## Archery-Addiction

That bow is too cool, i am going to go order a commander today. Your pics of it are amazing, you should sell them to bowtech. Where in MN are you located?


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## walks with a gi

I'd sure like to see one in Max 4 but I guess that's not possible anymore. My little Tribute in Max 4 is a cutie 

Can't wait to see the Commander, I'll bet that one will look really long and slender:shade:


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## walks with a gi

From a few pictures it looks like they need to move the cable rod silencer for better fletch clearance.


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## mirage55

*Just Go Look At The Bow....*



niteshade said:


> wait untill you shoot it......you just might change your mind


Like niteshade said---give it a try, just go shoot the bow.
I was the biggest skeptic on this bow when I first saw the pics.
You really have to see it in person to appreciate the "C.D.P."---Concept/Design/Performance.


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## Alan in GA

*I'm seeing,,,,*

that the limb pivot brace/clamp would be one area for adjustment. A smidgen either way probably changes behavior. Wonder what decides the 'best' location for that limb clamp/pivot point in mid limb?
Very interesting bow, and congradulations to BOWTECH for looking where no man or bow has gone before! 
I like 'em all.


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## vern96

*I have to admit,... I love the look...*

can't wait to see the feedback once it hits the field!

Any idea what these are gonna co$t ?


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## mirage55

*Thanks mq32hunter.....*



mq32hunter said:


> That bow is too cool, i am going to go order a commander today. Your pics of it are amazing, you should sell them to bowtech. Where in MN are you located?


Do a road trip over to Kasota today and shoot the bow---you're not too far away.

Yeah, Bowtech can send a new "Smoked Chrome Guradian" to my door in Eden Prairie, MN---looks like I've sold several bows as a result of this thread!!!

I shoot nothing but advertising pics, I have a studio in St. Louis Park, MN and shoot much of my work on location and around the country. IBM keeps me busy at several of their locations shooting for their in-house Industrial Designers---this product is easy to shoot after photographing details on big black IBM boxes!!! Most well designed products are all about the details---and if the manufacturer has spent money creating the details---the details should be apparent in all of their advertising collateral. I tried to show that in these pics---as Bowtech certainly missed the boat with their catalog & web photos.


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## walks with a gi

Alan in GA said:


> that the limb pivot brace/clamp would be one area for adjustment. A smidgen either way probably changes behavior. Wonder what decides the 'best' location for that limb clamp/pivot point in mid limb?
> Very interesting bow, and congradulations to BOWTECH for looking where no man or bow has gone before!
> I like 'em all.



I doubt that the "limb clamp" is adjustable and it's probably pinned into the limbs or there's a cut out in the limbs or clamp to keep anything from moving once assembled.


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## Doc Holliday

I still think that thing is as ugly as homemade sin , but that machine work is VERY nice. :thumbs_up 

Those pics are even nicer though. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


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## Alan in GA

*I do wonder also,,,,*

about the knee joints. There will have to be very tight tolerances I'm guessing so no side tilt/swivel/play is felt. I'm only going by pictures [GREAT pics,BTW]and would REALLY like to hold/inspect/ and shoot one!
I like 'em all.


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## walks with a gi

Alan in GA said:


> about the knee joints. There will have to be very tight tolerances I'm guessing so no side tilt/swivel/play is felt. I'm only going by pictures [GREAT pics,BTW]and would REALLY like to hold/inspect/ and shoot one!
> I like 'em all.



Do you think there won't be tight tolerances? If you've ever worked on any BowTech you'll know that they are put together very tight:thumbs_up


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## meanv2

Doc Holliday said:


> I still think that thing is as ugly as homemade sin , but that machine work is VERY nice. :thumbs_up
> 
> Those pics are even nicer though. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


Now that opinion from You Shocks me!


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## jpm_mq2

TailChaser said:


> Looks awesome to me. Not sure about the one limbsaver on top, but I like the bow. Wish I had one.


The limbsaver on top is just a modified one for hoyt's split limbs.There will be a different one made from vapor trail in the near future,with a much cleaner look.
I shot this bow today at this same shop.


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## BowtechX

I only have a half day of work tomorrow I cant wait to go and shoot it.:teeth: :teeth:


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## Sagittarius

M55,

I don't think the bow is as ugly as before, thanks to your outstanding pics.  
Now, it looks more weird than ugly. 
Your pics are truly outstanding; what type camera were you using ?


Sag.


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## Jose Boudreaux

jpm_mq2 said:


> The limbsaver on top is just a modified one for hoyt's split limbs.There will be a different one made from vapor trail in the near future,with a much cleaner look.
> I shot this bow today at this same shop.


uhummm, where are your pics???  :shade:


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## Norwegian Woods

Doc Holliday said:


> I still think that thing is as ugly as homemade sin , but that machine work is VERY nice. :thumbs_up
> 
> Those pics are even nicer though. :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


I think that baby is beautiful!!! 
I can`t wait till I get my Commander in HD Hardwoods Green


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## J.C.

looks like there's zero cam lean at full draw.


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## jpm_mq2

No pic's.i have known donnie for several years.He's the only bowtech dealer i would let work on my bow.His 60 yard indoor range is great.If you call him for any info on the bow,ask him if i was there today shooting the bow if you doubt me.His number is 507-931-5637 oakridge archery.


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## mirage55

*Canon 1ds...*



Sagittarius said:


> M55,
> 
> I don't think the bow is as ugly as before, thanks to your outstanding pics.
> Now, it looks more weird than ugly.
> Your pics are truly outstanding; what type camera were you using ?
> 
> 
> Sag.



CANON 1DS, with a bunch of Canon "L" lenses, and I shot the pics with two battery operated strobes.


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## Archery-Addiction

mirage55 said:


> CANON 1DS, with a bunch of Canon "L" lenses, and I shot the pics with two battery operated strobes.


Man, if i had an extra 50 bucks in my pocket to pay for the gas to get over there and back i we be there already. Guess i will just have to wait a few more days for the local dealer to get one in, or to be open.


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## Sagittarius

mirage55 said:


> CANON 1DS, with a bunch of Canon "L" lenses, and I shot the pics with two battery operated strobes.


Thanks for the information.
No wonder, your pics are so outstanding.
That is one great camera and lens !


Sag.


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## DanceswithDingo

Great Job, but I would be concerned with those exposed limb bolts when backed off, best to order one in the correct poundage at max. :darkbeer:


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## BowTech Dave

*Sweeeeet!!!*

Sweet looking bow. I can not wait to get mine! Awesome pictures as well. I hope to see more someday.

Dave


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## Norwegian Woods

Allready more than 2200 views


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## Norwegian Woods

Commander pics where are you?


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## dzingale

It looks like it will be an unbelievable bow. I ordered my Commander in Smoke and now I think I will have to order A Guardian in brush. My wife is going to kill me. By the way nice pictures.
Danny


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## bbaumer

*Limb Pivots*

The way the limbs pivot look to me to be a variation on what Whisper Creek has been doing from the start. Only Whisper Creek's version is much more attractive.










bbaumer


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## headhunter75422

Great pictures. I cant wait to shoot the bow. I am curious if anyone could tell me if the bow will have a solid wall on it like previous models or if it will be soft.. Just curious no matter, I am gonna have one or two . anyway....


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## Bob_Looney

Mirage, those are the best pics I've seen on the web. Bowtech would be wise to use you for their catalog and web. You don't use the std. shots most archery companies use.


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## HJMinard

Fantastic shots, Mirage ... as a photo hobbiest myself, I'm particularly impressed! I agree with previously mentioned comments that Bowtech should be paying for your images.

With regard to the bow, is that a production release intended for sale to the public? Just wondering because some of the details looks a little different to me (compared to Bowtech's website and catalog photos).


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## Elite Archery1

I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!

Thanks & God Bless


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## Jose Boudreaux

> Only Whisper Creek's version is much more attractive.


:hand: :hand: ain't no way....no way


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## HJMinard

Elite Archery1 said:


> Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source.


Geez ... the bows haven't even hit the marketplace yet and someone is starting limb problem rumors.

Somehow I find it difficult to take rumors at face value from a competitor, particularly one with a history of conflict with Bowtech.


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## BradMc26

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


And the purpose of your post was????

I do not know if you work/represent for Elite, but if you do, that was a real classy move on behalf of your company :thumbs_do


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## HJMinard

bbaumer said:


> Only Whisper Creek's version is much more attractive.


Sorry, bb ... but that's hideous.


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## Hit-em

M55....
Can you give a comparison of the draw cycle of the Guardian versus the binarys that are on the other Bowtech's ?

Which one would you say it closely resembles ?

The hard module or the smooth module binary ?

Great photos by the way ...very arsty fartsy :wink:


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## bbaumer

*Yep.*

Yep. The similarity to Whisper Creek's pivoting limb design is definitely there. Now, they could improve the look a little.......










bbaumer


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## HJMinard

Did ya ask for mirage's permission to mess with his photo, bb?


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## underwoodbits

Elite Archery1, would that very reliable source be the guy that never showed up to work at Bowtech?


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## jpm_mq2

The draw cycle most resembles the smooth mods in my opinion.The back wall is solid.


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## meanv2

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


Classy!!ukey: 

Most limbs I ever saw do Bend


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## TheTone

Great pictures, thanks. Looks much better to me in these pictures than the first ones on the web. Actually looks worth taking a look at now other than just a strange new design. I'll give one a go for sure this year.


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## elkreaper

BradMc26 said:


> And the purpose of your post was????
> 
> I do not know if you work/represent for Elite, but if you do, that was a real classy move on behalf of your company :thumbs_do



Ahh.... That was kevin the Owner of Elite. He should be consentrating on how notto build string cutting cams! Ohh and as for how the cam looks, were did he bring the idea from! 




As for the bow I think it looks great! In the pics of it drawen the limb bolts are way backed out. Is that what it does when it is drawen or is it backed out off of full #s!


----------



## meanv2

elkreaper said:


> Ahh.... That was kevin the Owner of Elite. He should be consentrating on how notto build string cutting cams! Ohh and as for how the cam looks, were did he bring the idea from!


Exactly!!


----------



## 3--d

OKEY......now i see how the stress is transfered on the limbs.
I was worried after i saw the Bowtech site pictures that the limbs were fixed!!

Thanks...

Andy

:darkbeer:


----------



## bbaumer

*Permission?*



> Did ya ask for mirage's permission to mess with his photo, bb?


Uh, no.

Didn't know I needed it. If I do and mirage objects I will ask that it kindly be removed. Figured once posted in the public domain w/o a copyright notice on it the photo becomes public domain. Am I wrong?


----------



## HJMinard

bbaumer said:


> Uh, no.
> 
> Didn't know I needed it. If I do and mirage objects I will ask that it kindly be removed. Figured once posted in the public domain w/o a copyright notice on it the photo becomes public domain. Am I wrong?


Check his signature ... I think that qualifies as a copyright notice. He may not mind at all, but I saw his sig before I saw your post, so I thought I'd ask.


----------



## HJMinard

elkreaper said:


> Is that what it does when it is drawen or is it backed out off of full #s!


In one of his posts he said the poundage was backed off ...


----------



## elkreaper

HJMinard said:


> In one of his posts he said the poundage was backed off ...


Thanx! Alot of posts! I just kind of skimmed them all!


----------



## Samuel Parker

meanv2 said:


> Classy!!ukey:
> 
> Most limbs I ever saw do Bend



.....and the cams weren't hacked out with a dremmel.


I wonder if his source was as good at the source describing the Bowtech Backdoor program.......as in out the backdoor of his garage.


----------



## bbaumer

*Aha*

I see now the notice in his signature. Too late for me to edit my funny.

See if I can change it to something else.

Thanks for the alert.

bbaumer


----------



## brian626

bbaumer said:


> Yep. The similarity to Whisper Creek's pivoting limb design is definitely there. Now, they could improve the look a little.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bbaumer


I shot one of those "whisper creeks" . They do anything but whisper, more like a 12 guage going off.:thumbs_do


----------



## walks with a gi

mirage55 said:


> This is "Secret Agent Fromm".....give him a call Sunday morning....he likes to talk about Bowtech....507-931-5637. email: archeryp[email protected]
> 
> More to come.....I'll finish pics later.




Looks like the shooter needs to switch around the knot 180 degrees on his limb saver for better action with the Limb Driver.


----------



## walks with a gi

*In this picture*

The knot on the pull cord for the Limb Driver..


----------



## bbaumer

*12 ga*



> I shot one of those "whisper creeks" . They do anything but whisper, more like a 12 guage going off.


Must have been doing something wrong then. According to the unbiased tech evaluation here on AT the Whisper Creek Innovator pro certainly more than held it's own against the so-called big three. In the quiet category there were only 4 bows to rate in the top 7 in ALL categories. The Trykon, Switchback, Instict and the Innovator Pro. Check it out:

http://www.archerytalk.com/archerytechevaluations/?eval=2006compoundhuntingbowfaceoff


----------



## AKDoug

> Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless
> __________________
> 1 Chronicles 14:2 - "And David realized why the LORD had blessed him abundantly and made him mighty among men; it was so he could in turn bless the LORD'S people."


[/QUOTE]


Nice gossip... I assume you attend church by your signature... here's a nice link of what you missed... http://dejnarde.ms11.net//bible_study_gossip.htm


----------



## brian626

bbaumer said:


> Must have been doing something wrong then. According to the unbiased tech evaluation here on AT the Whisper Creek Innovator pro certainly more than held it's own against the so-called big three. In the quiet category there were only 4 bows to rate in the top 7 in ALL categories. The Trykon, Switchback, Instict and the Innovator Pro. Check it out:
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/archerytechevaluations/?eval=2006compoundhuntingbowfaceoff


I can only testify to the one that i shot, it was very loud. We pulled all the accesories but the rest off the bow and it was still loud. It sounded like it was coming from the upper limb.


----------



## xmeister

Jose, 

You asked on another thread what arrow the red/white striped one was. It is a Carbon Express Freedom Hunter 300. It was introduced in 2002, in honor of the families of the victims of September 11. Game Tracker donated 100 percent of the net profits of the limited edition Carbon Express CX Freedom Hunter 300 arrow to a scholarship fund.

Cool, huh?


----------



## lunghit

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


You have nothing better to do? You and your very very reliable source should work on making bows and updating your website. Dont worry about Bowtech. You are way behind.


----------



## J.C.

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


So, you're the general manager at Elite, huh? This classy post makes me want to go out and buy a Bowtech. ukey: :thumbs_do


----------



## niteshade

Originally Posted by Elite Archery1
I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!

Thanks & God Bless



very poor taste for a ceo:thumbs_do


----------



## TheHairlessone!

> Geez ... the bows haven't even hit the marketplace yet and someone is starting limb problem rumors.
> 
> Somehow I find it difficult to take rumors at face value from a competitor, particularly one with a history of conflict with Bowtech.


The B.S. never ends does it? :doh: :thumbs_do

rick


----------



## walks with a gi

"I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes."

Didn't look like Elite had a concept of their own when they started out


----------



## sagecreek

Nice quality pics.

The bow looks good too, so do the cams. :thumb:

I can't wait for someone to bring one by the range this year so I can shoot it.


----------



## LeesburgGamecoc

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


The only reason the General Manager of a competitor would make a post like that is because they have an inferior product or service and need to slander someone else to make sales. If they didn't, why would they post negatively on a thread about a competitor's product? Here's a hint: make a line of great bows, get some dealers, offer good customer service, and people will buy them. Slam your counterparts in the industry publicly, and people will consider you low class, jealous, and spiteful, and will think you have something inferior you must compensate for. I hope for your sake your 15 year old son got a hold of your password, because if not, you have very little class.


----------



## bowsmith

Elite Archery1 said:


> I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source.


Since you're so willing to share this information please tell us who your very, very reliable source is.

And if they don't have any designers on staff, I guess the bows created themselves. Or maybe they do design by teamwork... 
:grouphug:


----------



## Archery-Addiction

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


Man, can he dig himself any deeper. I actually considered elite for a while, but there is no way i would purchase from them now. Like someone else said, i hope a child got ahold of your computer and typed that.


----------



## HJMinard

You know, I responded to the Elite doofus, too ... but I think we've allowed him to do exactly what he set out to do ... hijack and sabotage an almost exclusively positive Bowtech thread.


----------



## DirtNapTV

Elite, you are doing nothing but digging deeper into the hole you are already in, if you have not noticed nobody wants to hear or read things like that you should know this by now.

Unless of course if you have been under a rock. The big mathews bow company tried the same thing about 4 years ago and it sure did help Hoyt bow sales.


----------



## parkerbows

I had thought how immature and childish it was when Elite first came on AT and said all the things about Bowtech and said to myself no way would I ever buy one. Then a year past and Elite Management stayed away from saying negative things about Bowtech and that never buy a bow from them feeling went away now they do it again. I can't believe these comments come from a manager of their company, I have never seen a negative thing written like this from any other company ever. Shows alot about lack of class or scrambling to survive.
I think the bow is very cool and it is great to take chances, if it didn't work out some how, they still have all their other great bows to fall back on.


----------



## selectarchery

Great pictures! What camera are you using? Thanks,
Jim


----------



## meanv2

selectarchery said:


> Great pictures! What camera are you using? Thanks,
> Jim


That question was answered if you will read back a bit


----------



## AKDoug

Jim, the camera type is back on page 2 I believe.


----------



## meanv2

mirage55 said:


> CANON 1DS, with a bunch of Canon "L" lenses, and I shot the pics with two battery operated strobes.


There you go


----------



## selectarchery

meanv2 said:


> There you go



Thanks kids, I saw it after I posted - sorry about that one! That's one expensive camera!!!! 

I didn't know what to think of the new Bowtechs when I first saw them...but after seeing the photography, I think they are really nice looking bows. I'd be interested in seeing how they shoot - certainly is a cool idea, that's for sure.

Jim


----------



## meanv2

selectarchery said:


> Thanks kids


Haven't been called a kid in years:shade: 

Thanks


----------



## Greg / MO

:teeth: Sort of like when you realize you'd love to be carded again, huh? :darkbeer:


----------



## mirage55

*"Glide-like" draw cycle...*



Hit-em said:


> M55....
> Can you give a comparison of the draw cycle of the Guardian versus the binarys that are on the other Bowtech's ?
> 
> Which one would you say it closely resembles ?
> 
> The hard module or the smooth module binary ?
> 
> Great photos by the way ...very arsty fartsy :wink:


One of the guys that was testing the bow described it as: "Glide-Like".
It is very smooth with a much smaller valley than the regular binaries.
Still has the same solid wall.
I can't really compare the draw cycle to a smooth or speed mod as I own a '05 Allegiance which does not have mods.
The most impressive thing about the bow is the lack of shock & vibratioin.
I would describe the sound the bow makes to a kid's 20lb. recurve---honestly that is how quiet it is.


----------



## dynotec

That is 1 fine fooking piece of machinery.I'd like to shoot one,but if i did i'd want one and then the wife would strangle me.kind of wish i would have waited another year on a new bow but o well i like my ally:darkbeer:


----------



## Archery-Addiction

mirage55 said:


> One of the guys that was testing the bow described it as: "Glide-Like".
> It is very smooth with a much smaller valley than the regular binaries.
> Still has the same solid wall.
> I can't really compare the draw cycle to a smooth or speed mod as I own a '05 Allegiance which does not have mods.
> The most impressive thing about the bow is the lack of shock & vibratioin.
> I would describe the sound the bow makes to a kid's 20lb. recurve---honestly that is how quiet it is.


So how does it hold compared to your allegiance? Does it seem to be more stable, or about the same. The reason i ask is because they claim that it should be due to the deflex riser.


----------



## mirage55

*very stable....*

the bow is like a jazzed up version of my allegiance.
i am a big fan of the allegiance---which i personally think is the flagship bow of bowtech.
this bow is like the ferrari version of an allegiance....and i always thought the allegiance was the ferrari of bowtech.


----------



## archerdad

well i think it has a certain cool factor if you will. looks like something from star trek or something. neat bow, great photos.


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless



ukey: ukey: ukey: ukey: ukey: 
Guess you are a comedian


----------



## walks with a gi

The original photo in the Bull Rider magazine release made the bow look heavy and chunky but the great pics from Mirage 55 make the Guardian look slender, racy and light.

Xmeister, those are some great looking arrows!! Did you happen to install the draw stop to try on your Guardian and is it sold already?:smile:


----------



## CWG

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless



This single post just sold a Bowtech, and previously I had no interest in buying this Guardian thing, but your post closed the deal.
Very professional.


----------



## Jhorne

While Bowtech is fooling around trying to get the Commanders and Guardians out the door I hope they start getting some Target Constitutions out and not put them on the back burner.


----------



## Norwegian Woods

parkerbows said:


> I had thought how immature and childish it was when Elite first came on AT and said all the things about Bowtech and said to myself no way would I ever buy one. Then a year past and Elite Management stayed away from saying negative things about Bowtech and that never buy a bow from them feeling went away now they do it again. I can't believe these comments come from a manager of their company, I have never seen a negative thing written like this from any other company ever. Shows alot about lack of class or scrambling to survive.


I guess dirt just collects more dirtukey:


----------



## walks with a gi

Jhorne said:


> While Bowtech is fooling around trying to get the Commanders and Guardians out the door I hope they start getting some Target Constitutions out and not put them on the back burner.


 The new Constitution is one sweet looking bow, hope you get it soon but you know you had better post pics asap too!


----------



## Jerry/NJ

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


Folks there are 3 Elite Archery 1 ID's which are very similar to each other, 2 are Kevin & Kate I believe and this one is someone from Texas (correct me if I am wrong RK) and I am surprised RK or someone hasnt mentioned this already here. I saw it mentioned by RK on a thread in Gen. Forum so before lowering the hammer , make sure it is the real Elite Archery and not a clone, lol

I have an 07 Allegiance on order so you'll all have to let me know how this Guardian does.


----------



## RecordKeeper

Jerry/NJ said:


> Folks there are 3 Elite Archery 1 ID's which are very similar to each other, 2 are Kevin & Kate I believe and this one is someone from Texas (correct me if I am wrong RK) and I am surprised RK or someone hasnt mentioned this already here. I saw it mentioned by RK on a thread in Gen. Forum so before lowering the hammer , make sure it is the real Elite Archery and not a clone, lol
> 
> I have an 07 Allegiance on order so you'll all have to let me know how this Guardian does.


One of them is Kevin/Kate (I think Kevin, but hasn't been active in quite a while), one is this Kyle from Texas, and the third is a troll who made his brief career an attempt to mock Kevin.


----------



## Jerry/NJ

Recordkeeper said:


> One of them is Kevin/Kate (I think Kevin, but hasn't been active in quite a while), one is this Kyle from Texas, and the third is a troll who made his brief career an attempt to mock Kevin.


Thanx RK, I knew you'd be on top of it


----------



## RecordKeeper

Jerry/NJ said:


> Thanx RK, I knew you'd be on top of it


It isn't something I watch on purpose and keep records of (hehehe)....but rather it's more like a train wreck in slow motion....you just can't make yourself look away from it! :shade:


----------



## walks with a gi

I wonder if next year we'll see a comparable bow to the Guardian in the Diamond line with a single cam?


----------



## sagecreek

walks with a gi said:


> I wonder if next year we'll see a comparable bow to the Guardian in the Diamond line with a single cam?


probably not,

but more like the High Country line, Pearson line, PSE line,


----------



## Greg / MO

> the bow is like a jazzed up version of my allegiance.
> i am a big fan of the allegiance---which i personally think is the flagship bow of bowtech.
> this bow is like the ferrari version of an allegiance....and i always thought the allegiance was the ferrari of bowtech.


:thumbs_up


----------



## walks with a gi

sagecreek said:


> probably not,
> 
> but more like the High Country line, Pearson line, PSE line,


 I'd bet we'd all be surprised at what we'd find on some other manufacturer's computers and probably some of the loudest opponents that say "how ugly", "it'll never work", etc.


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Recordkeeper said:


> One of them is Kevin/Kate (I think Kevin, but hasn't been active in quite a while), one is this Kyle from Texas, and the third is a troll who made his brief career an attempt to mock Kevin.


But this Kyle does represent Elite? doesn`t he?


----------



## RecordKeeper

Norwegian Woods said:


> But this Kyle does represent Elite? doesn`t he?


I have no reason not to believe his claims. I also have no confirmation of them either.


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Recordkeeper said:


> I have no reason not to believe his claims. I also have no confirmation of them either.


If he really represents Elite, can we then agree that they really need to learn how to relate to the public?
I am not impressed so far. And far from it too.


----------



## tuskbuster

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


SOOOOOOOO. When did you get to shoot the bow? These responces in the "leave it to Beaver" context do NO one any good. You aren't Kevin's evil twin are you? Just kidding Beav.


----------



## Techy

Mirage55...

Thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!

Awesome pics!!!!!

What kind of camara is it?


----------



## Techy

The gaurdian rocks:RockOn: :RockOn:


----------



## Techy

bbaumer said:


> The way the limbs pivot look to me to be a variation on what Whisper Creek has been doing from the start. Only Whisper Creek's version is much more attractive.
> 
> bbaumer


No, WC's limb pivot is in the standard location. Not the same at all. And no it is definately not attractive


----------



## RedRocket_22

I wish there were some pics of the target models and what the pivots are gonna look like with those smoke limbs!!!

Sexy though, definately! :darkbeer:


----------



## RecordKeeper

Techy said:


> Mirage55...
> 
> Thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Awesome pics!!!!!
> 
> What kind of camara is it?


Agreed. From a quality perspective, those are some of the best photos I have seen on the Internet!


----------



## pdq 5oh

These are some great pics. Donny is a great guy, too. Now I can get that discount.  It sounds like the production Guardian will be just like the prototype I shot. The riser is definitely very slender, not bulky or clunky. A single cam version. That sounds interesting. That'd certainly satisfy the single cam lovers. 

Re: the multiple elitearchery1s. Kevin does have connections in Tx.


----------



## Norwegian Woods

pdq 5oh said:


> Re: the multiple elitearchery1s. Kevin does have connections in Tx.


Are you talking about the president?


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Commander pics please!!!


----------



## RecordKeeper

Norwegian Woods said:


> Are you talking about the president?


hehehe....that's funny stuff!


----------



## walks with a gi

What do you suppose Crackers with have in mind for the Guardian? 

Lighter weight aftermarket Center Pivot arms with his own dampener?


Aftermarket Center Pivot arms with dual string suppressor nodules?


Shoot through cable rod/slide accessory?



This new Guardian, I'll bet will spark a ton of new testing and engineering developements in the years to come:shade:


----------



## Norwegian Woods

walks with a gi said:


> What do you suppose Crackers with have in mind for the Guardian?
> 
> Lighter weight aftermarket Center Pivot arms with his own dampener?
> 
> 
> Aftermarket Center Pivot arms with dual string suppressor nodules?
> 
> 
> Shoot through cable rod/slide accessory?
> 
> 
> 
> This new Guardian, I'll bet will spark a ton of new testing and engineering developements in the years to come:shade:


Lots of people are going to make lots of money


----------



## walks with a gi

Norwegian Woods said:


> Lots of people are going to make lots of money


 You ARE SO right:shade:


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Shall we guess what bow company that will come with the first "copy"?


----------



## Techy

Norwegian Woods said:


> Shall we guess what bow company that will come with the first "copy"?




:thumbs_up :thumbs_up


----------



## J.C.

Norwegian Woods said:


> Shall we guess what bow company that will come with the first "copy"?


My guess would be HCA. He's already been doing patent research and posted a link to a patent that could be prior art to the design awhile back.


----------



## walks with a gi

41mag said:


> My guess would be HCA. He's already been doing patent research and posted a link to a patent that could be prior art to the design awhile back.


 There's quite a bit of difference between the Guardian and the TSS bows of the past and probably the most noticeable is where the limbs are anchored. The TSS bow's limbs were anchored solid to the riser at the middle of the limbs as compared to the Guardian's front mounting. The Guardian is also different than say the new Mathews Drenalin in that the limbs on the Drenalin are not secured to the riser, just like most other bows that simply rely on the front limb bolt or closed limb pocket to keep the limbs from pushing forward out of the pocket.

These two examples look like they would work similarly to allow the limb to flex completely but have different effects on shooting qualities on each bow.

Kinda makes you wonder why no one else back then wanted to copy the TSS bows, even if there was a patent royalties could have been paid for if the technology was that remarkable. 


I have also noticed Fastpassthrough's attendance on this Guardian thread:smile:


----------



## tuskbuster

I don't think shooting qualities would be at issue in the patent or prior art. I think it would be design and or function.


----------



## Rchr

*Wow*

I am very impressed with the pictures. They really changed my opinion of the bows looks. Like someone said "it grows on you". Now that I have seen M55's pics I am more interested in one.
If only Bowtech could make the Guardian or the Commander as fast as my Allegiance I would be purchasing a second Bowtech.

M55 let us know if Bowtech contacts you and is interested in your abilities with your camera.

Rchr


----------



## HJMinard

rchr said:


> If only Bowtech could make the Guardian or the Commander as fast as my Allegiance I would be purchasing a second Bowtech.


Are you using speed mods on your Allegiance? If not, the Guardian IBO is actually faster than the Allegiance with smooth mods.

Depends on your draw length, too. The claims are yet to be verified, but if the Guardian is as efficient as they say it will retain (and utilize) energy better at shorter draw lengths.


----------



## Dub

deadquiet said:


> I really like what I see and can't wait to put some arrows thru one. I'm really intrested in the Commander but I gotta' wait and see what Ross brings to the table. I just love this time of the year!




Well said.


----------



## ALASKA MIKE

mirage55,

could you answer a few ?'s for me. i did not read all the posts,just looked at the nice pics, so maybe you have answered this already.

1. why is there just one limsaver on the top limb?

2. is the dropaway rest attached to the top limbsaver or beside it?

3. are those 30x goldtips in the pics, and if so, why do you have the top fletch forward from the rest of the fletching? Is that something you do on all your arrows or just the 30x? do you see a difference in indoor shooting or is it more for outdoor shooting?

4. i noticed the sight is all the way down. at first glance that is the only thing i do not like so far. the sight screws cannot go lower due to the cable guard. but it looks like the sight window could be improved on. now to my question. How much height adjustment do you have left on that sight?

real nice camera work!!!!

thanks in advance for answering any or all of the questions.

Mike





mirage55 said:


> This is "Secret Agent Fromm".....give him a call Sunday morning....he likes to talk about Bowtech....507-931-5637. email: [email protected]
> 
> More to come.....I'll finish pics later.


----------



## ALASKA MIKE

my questions are based off of this pic.


----------



## meanv2

HJMinard said:


> Depends on your draw length, too. The claims are yet to be verified, but if the Guardian is as efficient as they say it will retain (and utilize) energy better at shorter draw lengths.


That's what I wanna see! A 28" model Guardian run through the Chrono against an Allegiance at 28" with Speed mods. They may very well be close


----------



## truhuntr

That is what I like to see. It is nice to see that one of the big three has brought something new to the table. I think this is what we needed in the industry. NEW. 

Now maybe some of the smaller companies will have the opportunity to show off some of their hidden designs. And I only hope that each of you will welcome them with the same warm response. 

Great job Bowtech. You have definitely raised the bar for the rest of us. Hope we can all answer the call.

Love the pics.

Yes I am Evotek. I am signed in at home. Just didn't want anyone to think I was hiding behind the name.


----------



## LeesburgGamecoc

truhuntr said:


> That is what I like to see. It is nice to see that one of the big three has brought something new to the table. I think this is what we needed in the industry. NEW.
> 
> Now maybe some of the smaller companies will have the opportunity to show off some of their hidden designs. And I only hope that each of you will welcome them with the same warm response.
> 
> Great job Bowtech. You have definitely raised the bar for the rest of us. Hope we can all answer the call.
> 
> Love the pics.
> 
> Yes I am Evotek. I am signed in at home. Just didn't want anyone to think I was hiding behind the name.


That is the kind of response by a company rep about a competitor that I respect, and it will ensure I will look at their product. Contrast that to the previous one by another manufacturer, and you will see why I will give Evotek a look when I look at my next bow (assuming I can find one locally), and will not give the other a look. I respect class and integrity and reward it when I buy something. BTW, I agree about the "NEW". A company taking a chance with a new innovation is what helps us all, and it would be nice to see more of it.


----------



## Soumi

HJMinard said:


> Depends on your draw length, too. The claims are yet to be verified, but if the Guardian is as efficient as they say it will retain (and utilize) energy better at shorter draw lengths.


I am totally rethinking my idea of buying a Equalizer due to my 26" draw length. If the Guardian is still fast at that draw but more forgiving due to it's riser design I'd give it the nod. I'll take accurate over speed but maybe it won't give up speed either and it will be a win win. :banana:


----------



## 3dbowmaster

First I'd like to say that that design is the coolest looking thing since sliced bread!!!!! 

I just would like for someone to back the limbs out three turns and then grab the "no limb pocket ends" of the limbs and see how much it twists!!!! If it don't twist any, then I may be purchasing one!!!

Bowtech should have made the limbs draw weight specific, and kept the limbs locked down so they couldn't be adjusted!!! Now that would have been awesome!!!


----------



## BowtechX

Just went and shot the guardian at Donnies all I have to say is WOW. The draw was very smooth no noise and no vibration all i could hear is the arrow leaving the bow. It only took me two arrrows and i was nailing the X every time, the bow wasnt even set up for me. I think this bow will be my next hunting bow. I wish I never shot it.


----------



## BowTech Dave

*No Press Needed!*



3dbowmaster said:


> First I'd like to say that that design is the coolest looking thing since sliced bread!!!!!
> 
> I just would like for someone to back the limbs out three turns and then grab the "no limb pocket ends" of the limbs and see how much it twists!!!! If it don't twist any, then I may be purchasing one!!!
> 
> Bowtech should have made the limbs draw weight specific, and kept the limbs locked down so they couldn't be adjusted!!! Now that would have been awesome!!!


The adjustability of this style limb pocket is made so that a person can loosen the limb bolt out enough to change strings and cables without a press. I can understand where that area might be of concern, but I am sure BowTech took this into consideration and that this is not a problem. 

Is there anyone out there that has shot this that can shed some more light on this?


----------



## justletmein

Is it me, or is that grip dangerously high? Seems to me with a good sized broadhead strapped to that arrow that it's aweful close.


----------



## walks with a gi

justletmein said:


> Is it me, or is that grip dangerously high? Seems to me with a good sized broadhead strapped to that arrow that it's aweful close.



Longer arrows are the key to keep your fingers from turning red.


----------



## Soumi

Those look like awful fat hands. :tongue: Just kidding and don't want to ruffle anyones feathers. Coming from trad and shooting instinctive, I like my hand close to the arrow.


----------



## Greg / MO

I think the side view exaggerates the hand placement slightly; my Black Ice (as well as all the other new bows) has the same grip... there's a trough built in to the shelf to accomodate clearance, as well as a nifty little thumb groove on the other side. 

My hand is not even close to being in danger of coming into contact with a broadhead...


----------



## Rchr

*I stand corrected!*

HJMinard you are right the Guardian is only a few F/P/S shy of the Allegiance. I guess I was mistaking the speed of the Commander for the Guardians. And it's cool looking too!!

Rchr


----------



## Norwegian Woods

LeesburgGamecoc said:


> That is the kind of response by a company rep about a competitor that I respect, and it will ensure I will look at their product. Contrast that to the previous one by another manufacturer, and you will see why I will give Evotek a look when I look at my next bow (assuming I can find one locally), and will not give the other a look. I respect class and integrity and reward it when I buy something. BTW, I agree about the "NEW". A company taking a chance with a new innovation is what helps us all, and it would be nice to see more of it.


Ditto!:thumbs_up


----------



## Norwegian Woods

The pics are really great!


----------



## Alan in GA

*working of the limbs,,,,*

studying the {FANTASTIC} pictures,,,I notice the limbs are not changing from thick to thin [transition from thick to thin] thruout their length, just a smooth flow. It appears that Bowtech is using 'more' of the limb's power than a limb grasped at one end and only 3" down from the limb bolt. I'm guessing this is quite an ingenious design, what I would call "getting FULL efficiency from a 'limb'.
Sure am anxious to shoot one.
I'm holding off buying anything, including the 'D' until I shoot more of the new bows. That's a lot coming from someone that 'was' intending, and still may, buy an XT or D.
With Christmas $$ needing to buy other things, I'm going to sit back a while, enjoy the bows I have [see signature] and just see what comes out,,,reviews and all.
I especially want to more about the Mathews D AFTER new owners have given them the first few hundred/thousand shots,,not just first impulses.
I like 'em all tho.


----------



## 2044MUSTANG

*Awesome!!*

I too was able to shoot this bow at Donnies over the weekend. All I can say is wow!! I can honestly say when looking at the first pictures of the bow posted here on AT, I was turned off by the look. When I walked in on Sat. morning and Donnie was setting it up, I was in shock. It looked great, and after I shot it. I'm sold, this thing is awesome, even with out a stabilizer. You can hold your hand completely open, execute the shot and it will just sit there. Even inside the range the arrow impacting the target is louder than the bow it self. For those of you turned off by the looks, find one and shoot it. I do believe your opinion will change!!!!


----------



## Norwegian Woods

2044MUSTANG said:


> I too was able to shoot this bow at Donnies over the weekend. All I can say is wow!! I can honestly say when looking at the first pictures of the bow posted here on AT, I was turned off by the look. When I walked in on Sat. morning and Donnie was setting it up, I was in shock. It looked great, and after I shot it. I'm sold, this thing is awesome, even with out a stabilizer. You can hold your hand completely open, execute the shot and it will just sit there. Even inside the range the arrow impacting the target is louder than the bow it self. For those of you turned off by the looks, find one and shoot it. I do believe your opinion will change!!!!


I am turned on by the looks


----------



## walks with a gi

2044MUSTANG said:


> I too was able to shoot this bow at Donnies over the weekend. All I can say is wow!! I can honestly say when looking at the first pictures of the bow posted here on AT, I was turned off by the look. When I walked in on Sat. morning and Donnie was setting it up, I was in shock. It looked great, and after I shot it. I'm sold, this thing is awesome, even with out a stabilizer. You can hold your hand completely open, execute the shot and it will just sit there. Even inside the range the arrow impacting the target is louder than the bow it self. For those of you turned off by the looks, find one and shoot it. I do believe your opinion will change!!!!


 Did any of you that shot this Guardian give it the old hoot owl "wiggle" test


----------



## Norwegian Woods

walks with a gi said:


> Did any of you that shot this Guardian give it the old hoot owl "wiggle" test


You are right. I forgot all about that one 
Please someone do a "wiggle" test


----------



## Matt / PA

> Is it me, or is that grip dangerously high? Seems to me with a good sized broadhead strapped to that arrow that it's aweful close.


2 things on that point, the pic is taken at a slight upward angle so that makes it appear closer, and also I know Donnie and if you remember that supposed world record Brown Bear picture that was circulating around the internet for a while then you now know what Donnie's hands look like.

They aren't hands......they're paws.


----------



## Jerry/NJ

walks with a gi said:


> Did any of you that shot this Guardian give it the old hoot owl "wiggle" test


:boink: :chortle: 

Matt, beins you're da man, what is your thoughts on the 07 Alleg. vs the 06?


----------



## walks with a gi

Matt / PA said:


> 2 things on that point, the pic is taken at a slight upward angle so that makes it appear closer, and also I know Donnie and if you remember that supposed world record Brown Bear picture that was circulating around the internet for a while then you now know what Donnie's hands look like.
> 
> They aren't hands......they're paws.



I can see that judging from his picture at full draw with the Guardian, he looks very relaxed with good form. The grip picture does look like he's putting a little "english" into it though. I like that pic of him at full draw, it shows how slim that bow is as compared to the first picture we seen of the Guardian.


----------



## xmeister

walks with a gi said:


> Did any of you that shot this Guardian give it the old hoot owl "wiggle" test


Ok, I'll bite what's an ole hoot owl "wiggle"?

Work was on the light side today, I took the afternoon off and I'm headed back over to Donnie's to "play". I'll check into that drawstop question you had and see if I can get the answers for Alaska Mike.

I'll be leaving in about an hour, so if there's anything elsr ya'll wanna know, let's hear it and I'll see what I can do.


----------



## walks with a gi

xmeister said:


> Ok, I'll bite what's an ole hoot owl "wiggle"?
> 
> Work was on the light side today, I took the afternoon off and I'm headed back over to Donnie's to "play". I'll check into that drawstop question you had and see if I can get the answers for Alaska Mike.
> 
> I'll be leaving in about an hour, so if there's anything elsr ya'll wanna know, let's hear it and I'll see what I can do.



There was a debate on the deflex/reflex issue and oldhootowl said it didn't make any difference in the forgiving nature of how a bow shot. I'm sure you can wiggle a grip at full draw on any bow but my argument was with the inherent torque difference in the system at full draw between the two geometries. The deflex geometry being the most desirable for easier tuning and shooting.


----------



## meanv2

xmeister said:


> I'll be leaving in about an hour, so if there's anything elsr ya'll wanna know, let's hear it and I'll see what I can do.


Chronograph that Baby against an Allegiance

Maybe even at 28" draw


----------



## walks with a gi

meanv2 said:


> Chronograph that Baby against an Allegiance
> 
> Maybe even at 28" draw



Take more pictures too!!!!!!!!:star:


----------



## mirage55

*Straight Riser???....*

Could this bow be considered a "Straight Riser" bow?.....

Not necessarily a "Reflex Riser".....

May have to coin a new term for this bow.....

"Secret Agent Fromm" does have "fat" fingers doesn't he?


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Bratwursts


----------



## Soumi

mirage55 said:


> Could this bow be considered a "Straight Riser" bow?.....
> 
> Not necessarily a "Reflex Riser".....
> 
> May have to coin a new term for this bow.....
> 
> "Secret Agent Fromm" does have "fat" fingers doesn't he?


Wasn't that the whole idea behind the engineering of this bow? The speed of a reflex bow with the forgiveness of a deflex riser.


----------



## SonnyThomas

*BowTech Guardian*

Beings I detest short bows (less than 37" ata) this probably one of the ugliest bows I've ever seen. Looks to be a three part riser design (something else to wear and tear). Looks like pinned struts supporting the limbs. The strut designs makes the too short limbs look even shorter. Doesn't appear to have any limb adjustment (You buy "that" poundage and that's it?). 
On top of this I am told BT made my Old Glory obsolete. Looks like I'll be looking for another bow company.


----------



## gregvisser

The bow does not do your pics justice. Machine work is awesome, but the design is on the ugly side. Sort of: "it is a bow Jim, but not as we know it?" When does a bow stop being a bow and turn into something else?

At least with the split limbs you don't need to worry about longitudinal limb failure!  

Greg


----------



## dzingale

We recieved A Guardian in the shop today and it is absolutely the smoothest bow I have shot and the bow makes no noise at all.


----------



## Kelsnore

Very, very nice pics! :shade:


----------



## azpred

SonnyThomas said:


> Beings I detest short bows (less than 37" ata) this probably one of the ugliest bows I've ever seen. Looks to be a three part riser design (something else to wear and tear). Looks like pinned struts supporting the limbs. The strut designs makes the too short limbs look even shorter. Doesn't appear to have any limb adjustment (You buy "that" poundage and that's it?).
> On top of this I am told BT made my Old Glory obsolete. Looks like I'll be looking for another bow company.



I think the Commander addresses the short bow issue, as to wear and tear of the new riser design, time will tell. With this radical a change I would always wait a year or so to make sure all the bugs get worked out before I bought one. I believe the limbs are adjustable. As has been mentioned before, when Hoyt introduced the Tec riser comments were similar. This is even more radical a change but frankly I think its a good looking bow. Go back and look at the early compound designs there were alot of "radical designs"


----------



## walks with a gi

SonnyThomas said:


> Beings I detest short bows (less than 37" ata) this probably one of the ugliest bows I've ever seen. Looks to be a three part riser design (something else to wear and tear). Looks like pinned struts supporting the limbs. The strut designs makes the too short limbs look even shorter. Doesn't appear to have any limb adjustment (You buy "that" poundage and that's it?).
> On top of this I am told BT made my Old Glory obsolete. Looks like I'll be looking for another bow company.



The riser is one piece forged aluminum. The Center Pivot desing allows the full length of the limbs to flex and store energy instead of loosing 3 inches or more in the limb pocket and also avoids the high stress area under a normal limb rocker. The limbs are adjustable for draw weight. There's more bows available in BowTech's line up besides the Guardian


----------



## mirage55

*Thanks To Everyone For The Pic Compliments*

Glad I could get some shots of the "Guardian".
Thank Donnie Fromm from @Oakridge Archery, Kasota, MN, for providing the bow to be photographed.
Everyone should hold an open mind toward the "Guardian" until they see it in person and shoot it.
I was one of the biggest skeptics before I saw it in person---and it took me like 5 seconds to go---WOW, let me shoot it---so give it a try if you get the chance.
Other than that--enjoy the pics and hopefully as more new bows come in, I will find the time to go back to Oakridge and shoot some more photos.
Thanks again: Bill


----------



## Jhorne

Hey Bill, See what you can come up with on the Constitution. There hasn't been much said about these.


----------



## mirage55

*Constitution...*

I will.
I know Donnie is a big fan of the Constitution---that's what he's been shooting for the past year.
I really like the look of new Constitution riser---if he gets one in---I'll get down there for some pics asap.
From what I hear they sleaked up the riser and improved the cams--whatever that means!!


----------



## dbertram85

bbaumer said:


> Yep. The similarity to Whisper Creek's pivoting limb design is definitely there. Now, they could improve the look a little.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bbaumer


whisper creek lol those bows are horrible they look like something someone thought of many years ago and finally came out with them y would u put some kind of shocks on a bow


----------



## Norwegian Woods

mirage55 said:


> I will.
> I know Donnie is a big fan of the Constitution---that's what he's been shooting for the past year.
> I really like the look of new Constitution riser---if he gets one in---I'll get down there for some pics asap.
> From what I hear they sleaked up the riser and improved the cams--whatever that means!!


Waiting for your pics of the Commander when it comes to the shop:tongue:


----------



## Techy

justletmein said:


> Is it me, or is that grip dangerously high? Seems to me with a good sized broadhead strapped to that arrow that it's aweful close.


This was intensional, the reason reducing vertical torque.

Ditto on teh using longer arrows if your worried.


----------



## Savannahsdad

*Well......*

I got to shoot a Guardian today at lunch and all I can say is.......WOW.....AMAZING!


----------



## PatriotDually

oh man give us more! was it a better feeling bow then the tribute as far as shock, noise, holding ability?


----------



## xmeister

3dbowmaster said:


> I just would like for someone to back the limbs out three turns and then grab the "no limb pocket ends" of the limbs and see how much it twists!!!! If it don't twist any, then I may be purchasing one!!!


The bow in mirage55's pics was backed out 10 turns and still solid, good luck on your new bow


----------



## xmeister

banner said:


> Great pictures. One question I have lokking at the picts is how to adjust peeps ect. Doe the limb bolts relax enough to work on the bow? From the pictures it doesn't look like it would work in most presses.


All you have to do is back out the limb bolts until there is slack in the strings. I was getting ready to back out the limbs after chrono testing @ 60#, just about to start cranking when Donnie warns me "to be careful they turn hard" .............totally faked me out.........smooth as silk, they turned with just my thumb and two fingers, no need to strain at all. I like that ! !


----------



## xmeister

ALASKA MIKE said:


> mirage55,
> 
> could you answer a few ?'s for me. i did not read all the posts,just looked at the nice pics, so maybe you have answered this already.
> 
> 1. why is there just one limsaver on the top limb?
> 
> 2. is the dropaway rest attached to the top limbsaver or beside it?
> 
> 3. are those 30x goldtips in the pics, and if so, why do you have the top fletch forward from the rest of the fletching? Is that something you do on all your arrows or just the 30x? do you see a difference in indoor shooting or is it more for outdoor shooting?
> 
> 4. i noticed the sight is all the way down. at first glance that is the only thing i do not like so far. the sight screws cannot go lower due to the cable guard. but it looks like the sight window could be improved on. now to my question. How much height adjustment do you have left on that sight?
> 
> real nice camera work!!!!
> 
> thanks in advance for answering any or all of the questions.
> 
> Mike



Alaska Mike, here ya go.

1&2. There is only one limbsaver because its used for attaching the Limbdriver's lanyard.

3. The arrows are x-cutters. Donnie staggers his vanes by 1/2" for more steering power with lighter weight. 3" vanes will steer like 4" when offset this way. 

4. The sight is only 5/16" below dead even, with well over an inch of gang travel, not to mention the pin height adjustment inside the bracket.


----------



## xmeister

walks with a gi said:


> Xmeister, those are some great looking arrows!! Did you happen to install the draw stop to try on your Guardian and is it sold already?:smile:


No, the bow's not mine or sold, it's Donnie's demo bow............must have close to a thousand shots thru it already.

Rather than a single drawstop that contacts the limb, there are dual drawstops, one on each cam that rotate to contact its cable. They remind me of a smaller version of the "wallbangers" from the not-so-distant past. Here's a pic, cam is at brace on the left and full draw on the right.


----------



## xmeister

*meanv2, here's your speeds.*



meanv2 said:


> Chronograph that Baby against an Allegiance
> 
> Maybe even at 28" draw


Sorry, we had only 29-incher to tease..er..test with  

Keep in mind that the Guardian I shot was a 70 pounder backed out and the Allegiance was bottomed, so while close for comparison, still not apples to apples. The Guardian was noticeably quieter as well as smoother on the draw. The Allegiance had smooth mods.

Guardian.........70# limbs, backed out to 60.2.....29 AMO on the bean.
Allegiance.......60# limbs, bolt buried @ 60.2.....29 1/4 AMO DL. 
3 different arrows.......A = 543.2 grains, B = 382.7, and C = 310.2 
Average of 3 shots.
Allegiance..........A = 239.1, B = 277.9, C = 305
Guardian............A = 235.9, B = 274.4, C = 300.8

So, with a difference of only 3-4 fps, choosing a Guardian will get you a smoother draw, less noisy bow that will get everyones attention. How cool is that??


----------



## walks with a gi

xmeister said:


> No, the bow's not mine or sold, it's Donnie's demo bow............must have close to a thousand shots thru it already.
> 
> Rather than a single drawstop that contacts the limb, there are dual drawstops, one on each cam that rotate to contact its cable. They remind me of a smaller version of the "wallbangers" from the not-so-distant past. Here's a pic, cam is at brace on the left and full draw on the right.


 Oh Man!! Thanks for the pictures. I can see a really cool modification I can make when I get mine:shade:


----------



## mirage55

*allegiance '06 or '07 model?...*

steve.....what model year was the allegiance shot in your test---'06 or '07?


----------



## xmeister

walks with a gi said:


> There was a debate on the deflex/reflex issue and oldhootowl said it didn't make any difference in the forgiving nature of how a bow shot. I'm sure you can wiggle a grip at full draw on any bow but my argument was with the inherent torque difference in the system at full draw between the two geometries. The deflex geometry being the most desirable for easier tuning and shooting.



WWG, 

As far as the oldhootowl "wiggle" goes, I agree that anyone can introduce torgue into the equation no matter what the riser style, letoff percentage or person's form may be. While the arrow is off the string quicker with a reflex, it is inherently more torguey (is that a word?) and while the deflex is less finicky it has the arrow on the string for a longer time. Same can be argued about 80% vs 65% letoff, less tension on the cables "allows for more torgue" 

Much is dependant on the shooter's skill.

This riser has about 3/8" of deflex to it. That said, I have had the most consistant indoor results with a bow that has a straight riser and that fits me to a T.


----------



## xmeister

Bill, Allegiance was an 06 off the wall.

And,



By the way,



Your pictures ROCKED ! ! !


----------



## mirage55

*Hmmmmm....*



xmeister said:


> Bill, Allegiance was an 06 off the wall


now the question?.....is the '06 allegiance faster or slower than an '07 allegiance?....as they changed the cams on the '07's didn't they?

just have to do the test all over again when an '07 allegiance shows up!

i like your pic of the stop----many questions on that feature.


----------



## walks with a gi

Can't wait to see one in a target "color" all decked out to shoot indoors or 3D!!


----------



## xmeister

*Kudos to mirage55's and his saweeeet camera skills ! ! Great job on the pics.*

I had heard good things about the Guardian and was looking forward to "testdriving" one when it came out, but when I first saw the pics from the PBR magazine, I was disappointed.............that is until I got to see one in person, what a difference. Detail oriented machining, a solid wall, a comfortable slim grip, and a draw cycle that was smooth all the way back to the wall, no hard ramp up and taper off, no hump at the end, just a steady pull.......I really liked that. I've shot the 05's and 06's and to me the 05's drew harsh and the 06's stacked up just before the wall, so I think that this draw is their best by far. 

The Guardian @ Donnies is a 70 pounder and an inch longer than my drawlength, but that baby can shoot. I origionally pulled it back @ 60#, but since I usually shoot around 50#, I asked if he would turn it down as far as he dared. I shot it @ 54#, I liked it. Previously Donnie had told me that when he had shot it at the factory there was no jump or vibe, as well as very little/no sound, I told him then that he was full of it. 

I hate eating crow, but at the first shot I knew I was wrong. It just sat there at the shot, dead in my hands. The first thing I thought of was "****, I gotta tell Donnie he was right and I'll never hear the end of it". I shot it with and without the stabilizer and it felt the same, only the balance changed. Dean shot it after me and I watched that "Wild Thing" stabilizer like a hawk, only a slight twitch at the shot.......if I hadn't seen it for myself, I wouldn't have believed it..........no recoil. 

Saturday, we shot it @ 54#, 62#, & 67# and the only increased noise level was due to the arrow rest's tongue hitting the rubber bumper on the riser. Otherwise, the only sound was from the arrow hitting the bale. 

Yesterday, while a couple of guys were shooting the Guardian, someone called from Ohio. Donnie's telling him how quiet/vibe free the bow is and to prove his point, he puts the phone next to the bow at the shot and then asks him what he heard. Just arrow hitting target, no bow noise, he said and then asked if Donnie had one on hand to sell him.

Each archer that I have personally watched shoot this bow has gotten a big ole sheepish grin on their face and immediately reached for another arrow. 

The best advice I can offer is to shoot one before deciding on that new bow for 07.


----------



## xmeister

*One more for the road*


----------



## mirage55

*ditto for me...*



xmeister said:


> I had heard good things about the Guardian and was looking forward to "testdriving" one when it came out, but when I first saw the pics from the PBR magazine, I was disappointed.............that is until I got to see one in person, what a difference. Detail oriented machining, a solid wall, a comfortable slim grip, and a draw cycle that was smooth all the way back to the wall, no hard ramp up and taper off, no hump at the end, just a steady pull.......I really liked that. I've shot the 05's and 06's and to me the 05's drew harsh and the 06's stacked up just before the wall, so I think that this draw is their best by far.
> 
> The Guardian @ Donnies is a 70 pounder and an inch longer than my drawlength, but that baby can shoot. I origionally pulled it back @ 60#, but since I usually shoot around 50#, I asked if he would turn it down as far as he dared. I shot it @ 54#, I liked it. Previously Donnie had told me that when he had shot it at the factory there was no jump or vibe, as well as very little/no sound, I told him then that he was full of it.
> 
> I hate eating crow, but at the first shot I knew I was wrong. It just sat there at the shot, dead in my hands. The first thing I thought of was "****, I gotta tell Donnie he was right and I'll never hear the end of it". I shot it with and without the stabilizer and it felt the same, only the balance changed. Dean shot it after me and I watched that "Wild Thing" stabilizer like a hawk, only a slight twitch at the shot.......if I hadn't seen it for myself, I wouldn't have believed it..........no recoil.
> 
> Saturday, we shot it @ 54#, 62#, & 67# and the only increased noise level was due to the arrow rest's tongue hitting the rubber bumper on the riser. Otherwise, the only sound was from the arrow hitting the bale.
> 
> Yesterday, while a couple of guys were shooting the Guardian, someone called from Ohio. Donnie's telling him how quiet/vibe free the bow is and to prove his point, he puts the phone next to the bow at the shot and then asks him what he heard. Just arrow hitting target, no bow noise, he said and then asked if Donnie had one on hand to sell him.
> 
> Each archer that I have personally watched shoot this bow has gotten a big ole sheepish grin on their face and immediately reached for another arrow.
> 
> The best advice I can offer is to shoot one before deciding on that new bow for 07.


Steve has described the bow exactly as it is!

Keep an open mind and just go shoot one.


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## HJMinard

xmeister said:


> Keep in mind that the Guardian I shot was a 70 pounder backed out and the Allegiance was bottomed, so while close for comparison, still not apples to apples.


Very true. It's well known that bows are more efficient at their highest poundage setting, so a 60 lb Guardian might be right there with the Allegiance.

Thanks for the info !!


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## ALASKA MIKE

thanks for answering:thumbs_up 






xmeister said:


> Alaska Mike, here ya go.
> 
> 1&2. There is only one limbsaver because its used for attaching the Limbdriver's lanyard.
> 
> 3. The arrows are x-cutters. Donnie staggers his vanes by 1/2" for more steering power with lighter weight. 3" vanes will steer like 4" when offset this way.
> 
> 4. The sight is only 5/16" below dead even, with well over an inch of gang travel, not to mention the pin height adjustment inside the bracket.


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## CHAMPION2

Man very impressive photos!!! Those new BowTechs sure looks sweet. Definitely going to test shoot the new ones when they arrive at the local shop. I personally like the looks of the new Bows.


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## tinman1

ttt


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## tinman1

mirage55 said:


> now the question?.....is the '06 allegiance faster or slower than an '07 allegiance?....as they changed the cams on the '07's didn't they?
> 
> just have to do the test all over again when an '07 allegiance shows up!
> 
> i like your pic of the stop----many questions on that feature.


The '07 is faster, about 10fps


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## AZarcherybandit

I've gotta admit, the pics make it look a lot more attractive than when it we first got peeks at it. Great Pics guys.


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## WC671

brian626 said:


> I shot one of those "whisper creeks" . They do anything but whisper, more like a 12 guage going off.:thumbs_do



:laugh: Funniest thing I've Heard.....your comment on the sound like a 12ga goin off is ... ummm??? WCA I give :thumbs_up .... They Do have Quiet Bows...I own one and it may not be their top of the line but it sure is quiet compared to the other members of our local Archery Club's Bows which includes the Top Manufacturers as well as the Smaller ones ... and they the members that have seen and heard me shoot my WCA Bow Have given Highly Positives Comments on How Quiet the shot was and how smooth the shot was and the lack of hand shock. I let them take a few shots with my bow and they all gave the same positive comments. But anyways indeed the Guardian is a Beautiful Bow and is gonna be a Top Seller:thumbs_up to BowTech on a Nice Looking Bow Great Pics Too!!! Very Professional.... But IMHO it does use the same concept in a different variation as WCA's Pivoting Limb Design.


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## bowhuntin_kid

As hard as I try, I can't like the Guardian. From the first second I saw it. And it's not that I just don't like it, I hate it! I have no idea why? Everytime I look at it I get angry! I can't explain it, but even if it's the smoothest, fastest, most accurate bow out there, and there was somehow I could get one free, I wouldn't shoot it. Anyone else feel like this?


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## walks with a gi

bowhuntin_kid said:


> As hard as I try, I can't like the Guardian. From the first second I saw it. And it's not that I just don't like it, I hate it! I have no idea why? Everytime I look at it I get angry! I can't explain it, but even if it's the smoothest, fastest, most accurate bow out there, and there was somehow I could get one free, I wouldn't shoot it. Anyone else feel like this?



It's just a bow, find something that dosen't make you mad


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## Scottie

bowhuntin_kid said:


> As hard as I try, I can't like the Guardian. From the first second I saw it. And it's not that I just don't like it, I hate it! I have no idea why? Everytime I look at it I get angry! I can't explain it, but even if it's the smoothest, fastest, most accurate bow out there, and there was somehow I could get one free, I wouldn't shoot it. Anyone else feel like this?



You should really learn how to express your feelings. Holding things in like this is not good for your inner being.


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## bowhuntin_kid

Scottie said:


> You should really learn how to express your feelings. Holding things in like this is not good for your inner being.


lol yeah... I have a tendancy to say whatever's on my mind. Sometimes it works out pretty good :thumbs_up , other times it gets my lips split open :thumbs_do


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## sirrocco

Hmmm, if an inanimate "thing" such as a bow can get you this riled, better that you dont study any history or listen to the insane drivel of Dubbya........
Now that could justify a little rage.


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## ARCHERYPRO

Bowhunting
Kid
Dont Hit Gifted Horse In The Mouth.we Have Just Past The Number One Bow Maker With This Bow. Pull Your Head Out And Just Shoot It!!!!!!!!!!


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## HJMinard

If anyone is interested in how the pivot arm attaches to the limbs, I asked Bowtech and received this response:

_"The center of the limb has a small hole in it. This hole goes over a pin on
the rocker. The bezel keeps the limb down on top of this pin. There is a
resilient pad between the limb and the rocker (the pad slips over the pin,
then the limb goes on the pin, over the pad. In reality, the bezel that
sandwiches the limb to the rocker is not required. The tension on the limb
will keep the limb on the pin, even without the bezel.

The limb doesn't slide."_


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## bowjunkie2

bowhuntin_kid said:


> lol yeah... I have a tendancy to say whatever's on my mind. Sometimes it works out pretty good :thumbs_up , other times it gets my lips split open :thumbs_do


 Hey Kid,
You need Intervention and Anger/ Management !


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## dzingale

Wait until you have the bow in your hand and then make your decision. I had A couple of people that did not like the idea of the bow until it came into the shop. Now they all love the bow. It is A totally different experiance with it in your hand, just ask Parkerbows.:darkbeer:


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## Archery-Addiction

HJMinard said:


> If anyone is interested in how the pivot arm attaches to the limbs, I asked Bowtech and received this response:
> 
> _"The center of the limb has a small hole in it. This hole goes over a pin on
> the rocker. The bezel keeps the limb down on top of this pin. There is a
> resilient pad between the limb and the rocker (the pad slips over the pin,
> then the limb goes on the pin, over the pad. In reality, the bezel that
> sandwiches the limb to the rocker is not required. The tension on the limb
> will keep the limb on the pin, even without the bezel.
> 
> The limb doesn't slide."_


Thats good to hear, thank you!


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## Black Frog

Ok, here's a question- The Guardian has 'more than parallel' limbs at full draw, and slightly less than parallel limbs at rest. Because of this, there will be little (if any) cable guide movement during the shot. 

If someone wanted to use a Muzzy Zero Effect rest on this bow, would they have to go to the Mathews-type MZE that actually connects to the cable?


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## walks with a gi

Black Frog said:


> Ok, here's a question- The Guardian has 'more than parallel' limbs at full draw, and slightly less than parallel limbs at rest. Because of this, there will be little (if any) cable guide movement during the shot.
> 
> If someone wanted to use a Muzzy Zero Effect rest on this bow, would they have to go to the Mathews-type MZE that actually connects to the cable?



Maybe Muzzy will make a special version for this type bow. It looks like it will be a popular seller this year.


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## bowhuntin_kid

sirrocco said:



> Hmmm, if an inanimate "thing" such as a bow can get you this riled, better that you dont study any history or listen to the insane drivel of Dubbya........
> Now that could justify a little rage.


I know all about Mr. Bush. These 'things' that we're talking about are the only reason I come to this site. Not to watch people try to start fights over their views on the president, or the war in Iraq.


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## bowhuntin_kid

Black Frog said:


> Ok, here's a question- The Guardian has 'more than parallel' limbs at full draw, and slightly less than parallel limbs at rest. Because of this, there will be little (if any) cable guide movement during the shot.
> 
> If someone wanted to use a Muzzy Zero Effect rest on this bow, would they have to go to the Mathews-type MZE that actually connects to the cable?


Shouldn't the guide move just as much? Doesn't that have everything to do with cam rotation, and not so much the angle of the limbs?


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## Greg / MO

Black Frog's concerns are well-founded in using the MZE, as the nearly straight up and down travel coupled with the minimal limb-tip movement (had to throw that in there for Gary  ) will definitely limit the slide travel on this bow.


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## skarcher

Does anyone know what the purpose is of having the brace to riser joint not being a fixed/machined part of the riser? It doesn't appear to me that it can move anyway due to the solid limb attachment at the riser.

Hope Bowtech is speedy getting them into Canada - been chompin' at the bit to shoot that Guardian. Probably be one of the only bows that could pry my Allegiance out of my hands.


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## dzingale

ttt


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## HJMinard

skarcher said:


> Does anyone know what the purpose is of having the brace to riser joint not being a fixed/machined part of the riser? It doesn't appear to me that it can move anyway due to the solid limb attachment at the riser.
> 
> Hope Bowtech is speedy getting them into Canada - been chompin' at the bit to shoot that Guardian. Probably be one of the only bows that could pry my Allegiance out of my hands.


It does move a very small amount when the limb flexes. I'm guessing they allowed for this movement because a static brace would place too much stress on the brace/limb connection, causing premature wear.


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## reylamb

Someone up near Donnie's shop ask him if he can press it with his Power Press.........inquiring minds want to know................and get pics if possible of the bow in the press.


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## Norwegian Woods

reylamb said:


> Someone up near Donnie's shop ask him if he can press it with his Power Press.........inquiring minds want to know................and get pics if possible of the bow in the press.


You don`t need a press for the Guardian


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## BIGT

Cool pics. Our shop is supposed to get theirs tomorrow. I hope it comes in, cause I want to shoot that bad boy!


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## reylamb

Norwegian Woods said:


> You don`t need a press for the Guardian


There are a lot of bows that presses aren't "needed" for.......but presses sure beat the heck out of cranking away on an allen wrench.......


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## xmeister

reylamb said:


> Someone up near Donnie's shop ask him if he can press it with his Power Press.........inquiring minds want to know................and get pics if possible of the bow in the press.


Donnie's been having internet provider difficulties and sends his apologies for not responding. If by Power Press you mean the "Last Chance" bow press, it is his choice for breaking this bow down. That and HTM's are his recommendations.

I'll get over there on Friday and get a few pics of it in the press for you.


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## joe832002

yah i went and shot the guardian and the the new tribute yesterday and man those are two nice bows. the only thing that i didnt like is that the guardian is a little heavy, maybe its just me but thats the only complaint i have. other then that i was realy impressed. i still may end up getting the 07 tribute though.


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## reylamb

xmeister said:


> Donnie's been having internet provider difficulties and sends his apologies for not responding. If by Power Press you mean the "Last Chance" bow press, it is his choice for breaking this bow down. That and HTM's are his recommendations.
> 
> I'll get over there on Friday and get a few pics of it in the press for you.


Yup, that is the one I was talking about.......thanks.


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## ARCHERYPRO

:bump2: :bump2:


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## walks with a gi

I shot a Guardian today Very cool bow with lots of WOW factor:thumbs_up


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## walks with a gi

#2


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## walks with a gi

3


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## walks with a gi

4


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## walks with a gi

5


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## walks with a gi

6


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## walks with a gi

7


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## xmeister

reylamb, here ya go


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## xmeister

right


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## xmeister

left half


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## xmeister

This is the motorized one, works slick, there is also a hand crank version.


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## t8ter

Jeff you dogg.Good move.Got em to post pics of the hottest bow out on the hottest press out.Even a pic with the phone # showing.:wink:


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## xmeister

t8ter said:


> Jeff you dogg.Good move.Got em to post pics of the hottest bow out on the hottest press out.Even a pic with the phone # showing.:wink:


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## stixshooter

mirage55 said:


> This is "Secret Agent Fromm".....give him a call Sunday morning....he likes to talk about Bowtech....507-931-5637. email: [email protected]
> 
> More to come.....I'll finish pics later.


Secret Agent Fromm looks a little like Pete Shepley
or is it just me?


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## BIGT

Elite Archery1 said:


> I am thoroughly impressed with the photography myself. Looks like an interesting bow design. I wonder how it compares to the previous Bowtech design now that they don't have a designer and are out on their own as far as concept goes. The cams look alot like the 2007 K8 Cams we have on the Synergy. Hmmm. Looks like it is going to be a good year for shooters as far as the variety of compound bows to choose from. Oh, I also heard that there may have been some trouble with the new Guardians limbs bending, and other issues, and Bowtech has pushed shipment back to February 2007. I'm not sure though, haven't heard it anywhere else, so it is basically a rumor, but it was from a very, very reliable source. Great photos!
> 
> Thanks & God Bless


I haven't heard anything about the limbs, but our shop got 1 Guardian the other day and was told that the rest of them won't be here until the end of Jan. That kind of sucks. 3D season will be starting soon and I wouldn't mind shooting one of these.


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## mirage55

*Bump It Up^^^^^*

Any shooters try the Guardian for the first time in recent weeks?


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## toxo

*Secret Bow?*

Is not so secret...........We have one in our shop now for sale.......but we are showing ours to customers now.....Some have ordered theirs all ready.
No hand shock no bow shock No noise, its just sits their and spits out arrows like no other bow on the market.


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## Abner

*Arrows*

Those are awesome arrows in that pic what are they


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## tiner64

way to go BT , Rockin' Design :shade: 

Great "PICS" 


Best in 07 ???


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## KCbowhnt

Just waiting for one to be delivered to the bow shop . I'm dieing to shoot one . Might just go home with me.


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## 3-D Junkie

I shot the Gaurdian a couple weeks ago. I know some won't like my opinion but here it goes. First let me start by saying that this is how the bow felt to ME!!!!  I shot the bow at about 66#, and the draw was a little stiff. It felt like I was pulling about 72# however it was very fluid. The wall was solid as a rock as with every Bowtech I've shot. This bow was also very quiet, with no hand shock at all. I didn't dig the look of the bow. The pics posted here are awsome, but it did not appeal to me when I was looking at it first hand. Honestly, I recommend that you take an Allegiance and shoot it against this bow. I'm not saying it is bad, I'm just saying I liked the Allegiance better.

As a side note I also shot a couple new Elites yesterday. Absolutely quiet, zero shock, insane speed. Overall felt GREAT!!! 

I'm not a politician, I'm a shooter. I don't care who says what about whoever. I could care less about advertising or any of the political crap others seem to get angry about. I'm going to shoot what works for, and feels good to, me. In the end its the product, not the producer, that you have to shoot with. 
Just my .02


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## Kirk

*The whole bow is scary!*



PABowhunt4life said:


> So instead of taking pictures of the whole bow, you only took pictures of sections lol?


I'm not kiding either!......I just got my first look at her tonight.....It doesn't even resemble a bow in many ways.....It IS a weird looking contraption.....Then i grabbed it by the grip and hefted it.....the thing was balanced in my hand with no atachments but an arrow rest on it....Wow! nice feel to it......Then the the salesman handed me a couple arrows and told me to give her a go.....I was in the process of trying out smooth mods on my new 06 Allegiance, and i had the two bows side by side.......I have to admitt.....ZERO SHOCK, & Zero Sound, was an understatement! Other than knowing your release went off.... only because it wasn't on the string any longer. And the only sound you hear is the arrow wacking the bale 20 yards away. "Did i really shoot an arrow here?" I couldn't believe they could build a smoother quieter bow than the Allegiance.....But they did!!!!! I asked if i could shoot it again, and the guy in the pro shop warned me that if i shot it 3 times i would end up ordering one.........I shot it six more times!!!!! How i got out of there without pulling out my credit card i just don't know!.....only because i already had a brand new Allegiance in my hand....that's for sure!!!!!

Amazing peice of technology! Had a girlfriend like that once upon a time. Wasn't much to look at right at first glance.......But after giving her a go.....I went right back for more!!!!!! After a spell i really appreciated the fine lines and the beauty i had originally missed too. Been with that woman almoast 25 years now.......So don't let the first glance at the Gardian throw you boys.....She's a beauty in your hands! And don't shoot that 3rd arrow unless you feel like getting hitched!

Nuff Said......Kirk


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## Kirk

*You didn't handle the ol' girl yet. did ya?*



SonnyThomas said:


> Beings I detest short bows (less than 37" ata) this probably one of the ugliest bows I've ever seen. Looks to be a three part riser design (something else to wear and tear). Looks like pinned struts supporting the limbs. The strut designs makes the too short limbs look even shorter. Doesn't appear to have any limb adjustment (You buy "that" poundage and that's it?).
> On top of this I am told BT made my Old Glory obsolete. Looks like I'll be looking for another bow company.


Boy you sure would eat those words in about 2 shots....It may be weird looking but,,,,,WOW!!!!! amazing technology you truely have to feel to believe.......I want to go back and shoot her again with my eyes closed....MMmmmmmmmm.......That good!


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