# Is Hoyt in trouble?



## ShootnBlind (Sep 28, 2017)

I spoke with a reputable source Friday inquiring about any new Hoyt releases for the upcoming model year. The only thing I could squeeze out of him was their new bow will be cheaper and specifically in the carbon lineup. I believe they are falling behind others like Mathews and even PSE (which I love) with antiquated tech in the cams, that coupled with riser issues for the sight mount plate and a slew of bad customer service (my own experience as well as what I've read on here and FB). Each year they're creeping up to that 2K mark and I believe its a huge turn off to any returning customers as well as new. Anyone else hear anything holler!! For the record I shoot a RX-1 Turbo and Ultra.


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## deadturkey (Mar 19, 2016)

They are all in trouble due to crossbows. 

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## Larry brown (Aug 17, 2013)

They are in as much trouble as everyone else, sometimes they realize hey we made a mistake and lower prices or some years certain bows just don’t sell as well. You have to look at it over a period not just one year. They don’t market quite as much as Mathews, which has the most in marketing of any brand, but they aren’t in trouble in my opinion. 


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

Always take this kind of information with a grain of sand. I highly doubt they're in trouble. They sell thousands of bows a year and are one of the world's most well known bow companies. Even if they did have a couple down years, they'd be fine. A company of this size has plans for "down" years. If they don't then, then they're doing something wrong.


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## ppkaprince98 (Mar 13, 2008)

Sounds to me like they are listening to the masses who are saying, "we like your carbon bows, but the are to expensive".


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## bmook019 (Jan 31, 2017)

Larry brown said:


> They are in as much trouble as everyone else, sometimes they realize hey we made a mistake and lower prices or some years certain bows just don’t sell as well. You have to look at it over a period not just one year. They don’t market quite as much as Mathews, which has the most in marketing of any brand, but they aren’t in trouble in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think they are in trouble like some are. They invested heavy on the target archery side and this has helped world wide. There is a bigger picture than just the US market. 

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## ShootnBlind (Sep 28, 2017)

Great info and thanks for the different points of view. I didn't even think outside the US market either. The one part that had me drinking the cool aid was the number of dealers they lost between last year and this year. I was told a staggering 43 dealers.


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

Well if they make it so the average dude can afford carbon... Some more people may "Get Serious" LOL.


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## McLovins (Aug 5, 2018)

Hoyt will be the first to hurt with their over priced bows. The industry is changing, a lot more small company's are producing a better product. Martin is back in the fold. bowtech has step up, no longer blowtech. Elite and APA are making crazy IBO numbers. PSE are no longer junk. The list goes on. 
Crossbows are be coming very popular with older guys and women. 
I'm sure the Hoyt fan boys will keep them going strong for years to come. 

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## NYyotekiller (Dec 7, 2011)

They probably are hurting somewhat as of recent because they have to be selling less bows with how much they cost. The average guy just simply can't afford a $1600 bow when you can buy a much less expensive bow that shoots very well.

With that being said; I believe that this past years offerings (RX-3, Helix) are two of the best bows that Hoyt has offered. 2020 will be a great year for Hoyt I believe.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Hoyt is interesting. I’ve been back to Hoyt since 2013. 

Imho they made several great cams, only to ditch them. RKT and the very best Z5 cam, imho can’t be beat.

When you introduce a new cam, it should feel smoother and be faster. They only introduced same speed, same performance new cams since imho.

Risers ? Hoyts biggest mistake imho ? In 2013 they came out with the metal riser Spyder series. It whistles off shelves like no other Hoyt ,,, EVER. 

What did Hoyt do ? They used the same bow and called it a Factor the next year. Then took the name Spyder and used it on their new Carbon riser that replaced the Element. 

What was their thoughts? People wanted to buy the name Spyder not the bow ? Stupidity at its highest level.

The Matrix has great name recognition as did Spyder. The new Carbon Spyder should have been a new Matrix series. 

The Spyder should have continued as a metal riser. 

So confusing the masses of customers with crap marketing, people like myself are asking who is the moron calling these shots ? Flush with resounding sales energy off the Matrix and Metal Spyder sales, they began signing up shooters and owning tournaments. 

They Apexed. They introduced new cams with no advantages over the old cams. The Turbo cam which gave more speed was a POS, and they had to refine it, and sorta have.

Sales waned because nothing advanced but name changes. No refinements in performance only hype. Zero Torque ? Please. Hype. Bottom cam lean ? Never was an issue overall.spacers cures it.

So now, they blow out their hunting and tourney shooters. Elite, Mathews, PSE, Bowtech have a frenzy signing them.

So they cut overhead in shooters. Now it appears they will pocket that extra money and come in a bit less cost on their bows. 

Meanwhile their new less cost bows, won’t be in action in tourneys by the old top pros. 

It won’t work. Sales will continue to spiral down. They had the market but they blew it with bad marketing. Now they are in panic mode, cutting expenses. 

Hoyt needs new marketing leadership. Product is fine or WAS fine. I see lean Hoyt ahead and why I have not bought a new Hoyt in 5 years. Instead kept my last new bow and bought 2 line new used Hoyts these last 4 years.

Hoyt sux right now and needs affirmative direction from the top. I’d fire and clean house from the top of marketing as a beginning to restructure Hoyt.


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## Kris87 (Sep 12, 2003)

There are a lot of bow companies in financial trouble....or struggling with sales to say the least. Not uncommon knowledge these days.


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

i dont understand, what the msrp of a TRX 7? the same as a Hoyt carbon bow...i live in and around some of the most expensive places to live in the US....you walk into a shop and your buying a hoyt for $1300. Same shop is selling bowtechs for $1095 before taxes. I feel bad that people dont really look into these things, maybe their shop just sucks.

As far as their cams, im interested to know what is so antiquated about them?

honestly, they put out a very nice product. They had some issues, but so did the triax and i hear rumors the SR6 is slow...life goes on.


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## Got Em (Jun 28, 2018)

I would think it has a lot to due with the plateau in technology. Now almost every manufacturer can offer a smooth, fast, quiet, tack driver. And no big advances have happened in a few years. There’s always the “get the latest and greatest” guys, but many people just aren’t going to throw out the money for a new rig with not much of a “performance upgrade” to justify it. And I’m talking about $1000 bows, so I would think Hoyt’s $1500+ will be even harder to continue to justify


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## copperman (Jul 22, 2008)

deadturkey said:


> They are all in trouble due to crossbows.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


So true and very sad........I am afraid the archery industry has slit it's own throat


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## BoHunter0210 (Oct 3, 2011)

It's all supply and demand...just like auto makers. If you make a product that isn't vastly better people hold onto things longer. I still shoot a 2013 Hoyt. I think that year and 2014 was their best years for bows as they still had the RKT and Z5 cams. People shooting these bows have no reason to switch it up because they got a smooth, fast shooting bow that still shoots better than the new stuff.

Also the reason I can't find a 50-60 or 55-65 #2 cam 2014 Carbon Spyder Turbo for sale in the classifieds...no one wants to let them go!!


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

BoHunter0210 said:


> It's all supply and demand...just like auto makers. If you make a product that isn't vastly better people hold onto things longer. I still shoot a 2013 Hoyt. I think that year and 2014 was their best years for bows as they still had the RKT and Z5 cams. People shooting these bows have no reason to switch it up because they got a smooth, fast shooting bow that still shoots better than the new stuff.
> 
> Also the reason I can't find a 50-60 or 55-65 #2 cam 2014 Carbon Spyder Turbo for sale in the classifieds...no one wants to let them go!!


Right^^^

In the last few weeks I’ve tuned up 2 defiants for buds and it’s easy to see where the Hoyt train fell of the tracks. I had one too which was my last Hoyt. 


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## bmook019 (Jan 31, 2017)

It's also hard to be successful when the warranty covers lots of user error. They fox drops and dry fires for free. This is a loss to the company. 

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## 12-ringbowstrin (Nov 3, 2016)

It is also important to remember that Hoyt Easton Delta Mckenzie are one and the same guys. Hoyt is not going anywhere. But the bows from all companies are extremely over priced. Problem is with bow prices is the mfgs all want mega shops and to do away with small shops to keep the prices high. The first machined riser bows I sold were 349.50 wholesale about 75 dollars more than their magnesium counterparts. Diamond before they were owned by BowTech made an aluminum and carbon riser bow the carbon riser retailed at 650.00 in the mid 90's. Today almost 200.00 of every high end bow goes to marketing ie paying target archers and paying for hunting shows and advertisement. So many of todays large companies started out as working from their garage or basement and to be honest now its all suits and ties and they forgot where they came from. And they wonder why there is less youth interest families can't afford to buy and upgrade 1500 dollar set-ups on a yearly basis. Just look at the classifieds current model year bows that have been barely shot you loose 3 to 5 hundred just to move them. Big business not always better business Just my thoughts


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## Centerpoint (Sep 27, 2018)

One thing I believe that’s hurt is speed. For the guys with 29 and up draw length, speed isn’t a problem. But you take 25-28 inch draw length and Hoyts target/3D rigs are slowww. ASA speed for guys at a minimum is 280 and 290 FPS classes . IBO speeds are 290+. When you have a 27” draw length and a bow with an ibo of only 313, you can’t make the speed. If I’m gonna shoot a 3D tournament, especially unknown, I want to shoot same speed as everyone else. 25/35 FPS difference in unknown is a huge difference. I honestly think if they picked up speed you would find more wanting them. If you don’t think speed matters when it comes to picking out a bow , just read the comments and threads of “ what speed and arrow are you getting?”. If I have a choice of two equal performing bows and one is 313 ibo and one is 335, which way is 95% of short draw shooters going? Plus the Hoyt cam that has any better small amount of speed is a spiral cam that sucks for 3D for most. Shooters want a fast easy draw with a lot of letoff these days and right now Hoyts 3D line with the Prevail and simular doesn’t give you either of the three. Then on that throw a $1700 price tag for a bare bow. Bad taste in mouth yet?


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## GuardianAngel (Jan 21, 2011)

In terms of prices of bows and why *some* are very expensive, this is well worth listening to: https://bowjunkymedia.libsyn.com/archery-pricing-real-talk-with-biggp

Greg makes some good points that I certainly never considered before.

Personally I have never had a Hoyt and probably never will (I am a PSE fanboy ), and I would never spend top dollar for a new bow. I just bought a brand new Supra Focus which was £850 ($1,030) and that was at the top of my budget. But the bow is a tack driver all day long, so why would I need to spend 400 / 500 quid more?


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

Hoyt is far from in trouble. Their carbon bows do not sell as well as their Aluminum bows and for good reason. They are overpriced. But they are doing just fine. Very very rarely have I seen anyone with a Hoyt Carbon bow at the range. I see them on shows all the time. The carbon bow sales I'm sure they are looking at and trying to figure out a way to bring cost down on them. They will have to if they want to keep introducing them.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

I see people here complaining about price. Price is a relative word. You should get what you pay for. 

Hoyt has given me what I paid for. Prices on MSRP Carbon Hoyts are always a starting point for a guy like me. I work a deal. Accessories and tuning make more than the bow. I take advantage of that in negotiations. 

I paid in the vicinity of $1250 for my Carbon Hoyts new. I bought 4 new I believe ? Once you patronize your dealer, they should welcome your business, if not, you chose the wrong place to jump in bed with. I know people get into arguments so at time you gotta shrug things off with your dealer. But by and large, they need to be lock step with you on big purchases like a new Carbon bow.

Hoyts Carbon bows are NOT overpriced. PSE or Bowtech do not make anywhere as nice, shooting, quality or aesthetics in their Carbon bows. PSE coco whatever construction looks like a boat oar, imho. J shot PSE far more years than Hoyt.

Bowtechs version of Carbon is a joke in cheapness, with its square riser grip. 

So therefore, Carbon shooters such as myself have no alternative but Hoyt. Hoyt got us by the short hairs until PSE who makes the best cams, can make a better Carbon bow. That will get Hoyt to lower the price.

Hoyt doesn’t push the Carbon to the regular guy. That’s not their targeting audience, not until PSE makes something more competitive.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

PostalRandy23 said:


> Hoyt is far from in trouble. Their carbon bows do not sell as well as their Aluminum bows and for good reason. They are overpriced. But they are doing just fine. Very very rarely have I seen anyone with a Hoyt Carbon bow at the range. I see them on shows all the time. The carbon bow sales I'm sure they are looking at and trying to figure out a way to bring cost down on them. They will have to if they want to keep introducing them.


Come to Arizona. You'll see carbon Hoyts abundant anywhere there is a gathering of archers. And you'll see a boatload of PSE and Matthews but almost never Elites and Bowtechs are a very distant third place. 




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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> I see people here complaining about price. Price is a relative word. You should get what you pay for.
> 
> Hoyt has given me what I paid for. Prices on MSRP Carbon Hoyts are always a starting point for a guy like me. I work a deal. Accessories and tuning make more than the bow. I take advantage of that in negotiations.
> 
> ...


Only hoyt carbon bow that was worth its price tag is the carbon spyder series. Not even the newer carbon bows by them are as good as that bow. It was just perfectly made and engineered. The ******* bottom of their class engineers the archery industry employees sometimes hit a homerun.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Hoyts Carbon bows are NOT overpriced. PSE or Bowtech do not make anywhere as nice, shooting, quality or aesthetics in their Carbon bows. PSE coco whatever construction looks like a boat oar, imho. J shot PSE far more years than Hoyt.


Utter BS that PSE carbon bows aren't as nice as Hoyts. Bowtech isn't even trying to compete on that plane so who cares about them. 

I really, really like the feel of the RX3 Ultra but fact is Hoyt carbon bows are too expensive, too heavy, and not very fast. PSEs carbons can deliver on everything that Hoyts don't. It's obvious this year that even the Hoyt guys who would normally be shooting a carbon are shooting the aluminum risers. 



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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

PostalRandy23 said:


> Only hoyt carbon bow that was worth its price tag is the carbon spyder series. Not even the newer carbon bows by them are as good as that bow. It was just perfectly made and engineered. The ******* bottom of their class engineers the archery industry employees sometimes hit a homerun.




As I said imho, it all came to a screeching halt after the Z5 cam was scrapped and word spread the #2 Defiant cam wouldn’t tune and forced Hoyt to introduce a Defiant #2 cam called 2.1

So you give up a perfect cam in the Z5 cam for a Defiant cam that wouldn’t tune ????

The R&D in charge of that blunder should minimum be fired if not shot. Lol  Worst move I’ve seen.


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> As I said imho, it all came to a screeching halt after the Z5 cam was scrapped and word spread the #2 Defiant cam wouldn’t tune and forced Hoyt to introduce a Defiant #2 cam called 2.1
> 
> So you give up a perfect cam in the Z5 cam for a Defiant cam that wouldn’t tune ????
> 
> ...


Yeah in all seriousness why did they make that move? I'm being drop dead on that question. I hope someone responds who might know. It's really not a logical move.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Ingo said:


> Utter BS that PSE carbon bows aren't as nice as Hoyts. Bowtech isn't even trying to compete on that plane so who cares about them.
> 
> I really, really like the feel of the RX3 Ultra but fact is Hoyt carbon bows are too expensive, too heavy, and not very fast. PSEs carbons can deliver on everything that Hoyts don't. It's obvious this year that even the Hoyt guys who would normally be shooting a carbon are shooting the aluminum risers.
> 
> ...


True^^^
Fact- Evoke 35se 12-15fps faster than ultra #2 cam yet their specs are almost identical. Aluminum Evoke 1.5-2oz heavier than a carbon ultra. 

My buddy gets his pick of a free Hoyt every year. He is shooting the Helix

And why is it every Hoyt guy acts like they’re the only one getting a big discount off MSRP and compare that to others Msrp going see look they’re only a few hundred more. Haha
But I will say I’ve seen bigger discounts on the Hoyt cause shops are sick of taking a beating on eBay with 1/3-1/2 their inventory left over when the new ones get pushed on them. 


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

PostalRandy23 said:


> Yeah in all seriousness why did they make that move? I'm being drop dead on that question. I hope someone responds who might know. It's really not a logical move.


Easy. New sells. Come out with a crap cam and limb design and call it the greatest ever and then completely scrap it in two years for the next steaming pile your r&d comes up with. 

Think about this...
Hoyt has had a new cam every single year since the defiant started trying to get it right. 


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Pssst. Come here, I'll tell you a secret...closer, so nobody will hear.

You ready? Here it is:

The people that complain about the cost of carbon bows WEREN'T going to buy carbon bows anyway. People that purchase BMW's don't run to the dealership and complain about the cost. The buy Fords, THEN complain about the overpriced BMW.

No lost sales there. So, if Hoyt is looking to bring a cheaper carbon bow to market, it will be to capture the Ford/Mathews/Elite owners. Us folks that own carbon Hoyts will still buy the high end model.

SHHHHH, don't tell anyone....


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

rattlinman said:


> Pssst. Come here, I'll tell you a secret...closer, so nobody will hear.
> 
> You ready? Here it is:
> 
> ...


If you are going to tell me the carbon bows after the spyder series are better and an upgrade then you lose all credibility. Spyder series is superior to every bow on the market today and I'm above Elite fan and I can even admit that. You apparently will buy a new bow due to a new name every year. Gotta look.good to your friends huh?


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

The PSE Carbon bow looks like the biggest POS I’ve ever seen in today’s new technology. A straight hunk of carbon for a riser, matched by Hoyts Matrix Tec back bar. 

I own more PSE bows than Hoyt but this carbon riser SUX. PSE does make the best cams, mostly always have. But someone needs to make something more than a curved bar for a riser.

You can believe as you want. But PSE Carbon is fuggly and needs to be made to look modern with its coco build it touts. Coco ain’t cutting it for me. 

I agree about Hoyts newer carbon being heavy, and why I haven’t re-upped. 

I’ll stick with my Carbon Spyder Turbo Z5 cam.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

rattlinman said:


> Pssst. Come here, I'll tell you a secret...closer, so nobody will hear.
> 
> You ready? Here it is:
> 
> ...


SHHHHH.... I tell you a secret.... You all justify your purchase to any naysayer buy saying you’re to broke to buy the best so you had to settle for second place. Haha

Hoyt’s marketing works
Just don’t shoot anything else with a open mind and you’ll continue to sleep well at night knowing only elites like you can afford the best lmfao


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

PostalRandy23 said:


> If you are going to tell me the carbon bows after the spyder series are better and an upgrade then you lose all credibility. Spyder series is superior to every bow on the market today and I'm above Elite fan and I can even admit that. You apparently will buy a new bow due to a new name every year. Gotta look.good to your friends huh?


Thanks for the personal attack Postal Randy. You've made good on your name. My friends are different than yours if you're worrying what they think of my looks....

I owned a carbon Spyder. The RX-1 and RX-3 are hands down smoother drawing, better looking, better limb pocket design, no limb edge splintering, easier tuning, no cam lean, etc etc. 

Shall I go on? Na, cause I don't worry about some internet cowboy questioning my credibility. 

Troll on brother.. Troll on.:wink:


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> The PSE Carbon bow looks like the biggest POS I’ve ever seen in today’s new technology. A straight hunk of carbon for a riser, matched by Hoyts Matrix Tec back bar.
> 
> I own more PSE bows than Hoyt but this carbon riser SUX. PSE does make the best cams, mostly always have. But someone needs to make something more than a curved bar for a riser.
> 
> ...




There is beauty, in simplicity.


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## V-TRAIN (Feb 27, 2009)

PostalRandy23 said:


> Spyder series is superior to every bow on the market today


there is no such thing as a bow that is superior to every bow on the market, lol


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

rattlinman said:


> Thanks for the personal attack Postal Randy. You've made good on your name. My friends are different than yours if you're worrying what they think of my looks....
> 
> I owned a carbon Spyder. The RX-1 and RX-3 are hands down smoother drawing, better looking, better limb pocket design, no limb edge splintering, easier tuning, no cam lean, etc etc.
> 
> ...


Gotta amuse myself somehow. This place ain't what it used to be lol


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> The PSE Carbon bow looks like the biggest POS I’ve ever seen in today’s new technology. A straight hunk of carbon for a riser, matched by Hoyts Matrix Tec back bar.
> 
> I own more PSE bows than Hoyt but this carbon riser SUX. PSE does make the best cams, mostly always have. But someone needs to make something more than a curved bar for a riser.
> 
> ...


You can think what you want about PSEs carbon riser but it’s so far superior than the Hoyt it’s not even funny. Well actually it is pretty funny. Straight up high end Bicycle tech and that industry has been playing with carbon for a long time. 
Gotta agree with you on ugly factor though even though it grew on me when I owned one. 


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

rmscustom said:


> SHHHHH.... I tell you a secret.... You all justify your purchase to any naysayer buy saying you’re to broke to buy the best so you had to settle for second place. Haha
> 
> Hoyt’s marketing works
> Just don’t shoot anything else with a open mind and you’ll continue to sleep well at night knowing only elites like you can afford the best lmfao
> ...


Oh, you read waaaay too much into my statement. I never said other companies make inferior bows. I've shot many bows in my tenure and all of the top brands make great rigs. I just like the looks and feel of the carbon series bows. I've owned every model but one since the Matrix. Never said they were better than everyone elses. 

Why does it always turn into a measuring contest? How big are the tires on that there truck of yorn rm? lol


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

PostalRandy23 said:


> Gotta amuse myself somehow. This place ain't what it used to be lol


Fair enough. Well played my friend. :nyah:


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

rattlinman said:


> Oh, you read waaaay too much into my statement. I never said other companies make inferior bows. I've shot many bows in my tenure and all of the top brands make great rigs. I just like the looks and feel of the carbon series bows. I've owned every model but one since the Matrix. Never said they were better than everyone elses.
> 
> Why does it always turn into a measuring contest? How big are the tires on that there truck of yorn rm? lol


Stock tires, no lift and no 5’ Hoyt or Mathews sticker in the back window that come standard on all mall crawlers. Haha


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I've had trouble with my PSE Evoke 35 SC..Right out of the carton..limbs not in the right orientation..how that for starters?


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

rmscustom said:


> You can think what you want about PSEs carbon riser but it’s so far superior than the Hoyt it’s not even funny. Well actually it is pretty funny. Straight up high end Bicycle tech and that industry has been playing with carbon for a long time.
> Gotta agree with you on ugly factor though even though it grew on me when I owned one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Oh trust me I get the coco puffs technology being stronger blah blah blah.

Question is ? I’ve seen Hoyts run over by trucks with no damage. So Hoyts riser is wayyyyyy strong enough. PSE might be on overkill,,, imho.

Now, has Hoyt had riser issues ? Yes on the WRX series they have had some issues. Hence, I’m not a fan. 

Say what you will but I still need a bow to look  good to me as well. After all, they all drive tacks ! All of them. Not one that don’t. My points mainly are, string stop over limb stop, cam feel, hold and speed, grip feel, looks. The rest, pretty much all have including vibe and quietness within reason.


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## BoHunter0210 (Oct 3, 2011)

I think Hoyt could fix their issues quickly by introducing the RKT3 or Z7 cam...which would be the reintroducing the best cam system they had 2012-2015 and dump the turdo cam. I bet they would sell a ton of bows with those cams.


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

Ingo said:


> Come to Arizona. You'll see carbon Hoyts abundant anywhere there is a gathering of archers. *And you'll see a boatload of PSE and* Matthews but almost never Elites and Bowtechs are a very distant third place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was shocked on the lack of PSEs when I went to a 3D shoot in Yuma. The only PSE present that day was the one I brought with me from Pennsylvania....

I did see a metric crap load at Ben Avery a few weeks later though... Must be a regional thing. There is only one bow shop in Yuma and they only sell Mathews...


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

BoHunter0210 said:


> I think Hoyt could fix their issues quickly by introducing the RKT3 or Z7 cam...which would be the reintroducing the best cam system they had 2012-2015 and dump the turdo cam. I bet they would sell a ton of bows with those cams.


this is whats wrong with this thought process....99% of people who buy bows, regardless of brand, dont know or care about differences in cams.

also, for the record, bows now are good. some are just boring and no fun to shoot. life is too short to shoot a 1994 Nissan Altima.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

I just read a draft of a press release which will be going on in the next week or so indicating that PSE is buying Hoyt.

Now what are you girls going to argue about when it comes to who make the best carbon bow? :mg::wink:


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## 78Staff (Dec 31, 2002)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> As I said imho, it all came to a screeching halt after the Z5 cam was scrapped and word spread the #2 Defiant cam wouldn’t tune and forced Hoyt to introduce a Defiant #2 cam called 2.1
> 
> So you give up a perfect cam in the Z5 cam for a Defiant cam that wouldn’t tune ????
> 
> ...



Man I told myself I would stay out of these threads lol... ukey:

I agree, been a Hoyt shooter for prob close to 30 years now. All the way back to the Super Slam series. The Defiant cam issue and then the RX1 "mediocre-ness" is where I jumped ship. (To A Halon, which was a fine bow, but I'm back to Hoyt now with an RX3). I think Hoyt is fine - as has been mentioned already, all companies have issues from time to time - Bowtech of course, Mathews has put out several duds, PSE always seems to have complaints, etc.

Anyway, some good points have been made in this thread. Carbons are higher (or, over) priced, but are not (or should not be) marketed to Joe Hunter. I believe that's why you are seeing more TV/Sponsored hunters shooting the Helix this year. Hoyt realized they need to showcase the bow that most can actually afford and will buy - they got of the rails the past few years pushing carbon carbon carbon. That being said, I typically go with carbon. This year, I was actually going with the Helix instead due to increasing weight of the carbon and the move to offshore for the risers. But due to some excellent reviews and build threads (OnTarget7's thread comes to mind) and getting a nice deal at my local shop, I decided to go stick with the RX3.

Speaking of my local shop, of the big brands, Mathews is the largest seller consistently, followed by Hoyt, then Bowtech. But the real winner is Diamondback. They sell 1K Diamonbacks a year including internet sales typically. Spot Hogg is also a big seller online, although locally Black Gold is preferred more.

Anyway, got off track - I've only had my RX3 for a little while, but did have a CST in the past among my many Hoyts of old . While the CST definitely deserves legendary status, to say it's better than the current model is hard to say. The RX3 has a nicer pull, better hold imo, the cams are excellent, fast and efficient, easy to tune. So efficient in fact, that it took away some Turbo sales imo. The Turbo, except for very short draw folks, just isn't necessary anymore. Cam Design and Efficiency (across all manf's) has just gotten so good over the past few years.

I loved the Cam & half setup, and the RKT and X5's were great. But I am really digging the ZT Pro, especially with 80% mods added. While I haven't owned it long enough to 100% say it's better than the CST, I can't say it's not either. It's a really sold rig (dis-regarding the sight plate debacle... sigh.) Sometimes Hoyt just can't get out of their own way.

I see the point on the Target line...just getting into target so am not that knowledgeable, but was surprised at the speeds the Hoyt models are producing. The recent Prevail line is a bit faster with cam updates, but still appears to lag behind the competition, especially in the friendlier X3/GFX cam series. The spirals have added speed, and a cult following, but you to be a pretty dedicated shooter to utilize Spirals effectively it seems. I realize target is about accuracy not speed, but as someone already mentioned, when everyone else on the line is 20-30 fps faster than you, it has to be an issue. I had thought about picking up a used Podium or Prevail for a dedicated 3d rig, but am leaning more toward the ProForce if I can find a decent deal on one. Or heck even a Double XL.

Anyway, I kinda rambled, but the Hoyt threads are always... I wouldn't say fun, but definitely engrossing .


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Predator said:


> I just read a draft of a press release which will be going on in the next week or so indicating that PSE is buying Hoyt.
> 
> Now what are you girls going to argue about when it comes to who make the best carbon bow? :mg::wink:


Well crap. That’s no fun. Haha


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## Ozz (Sep 19, 2017)

My Prevail with X3 cams, especially with 65% mods, is plenty fast. I have maxed out #2 cams shooting heavy 23s with 4” feathers and it hits 85 yards without hitting my huge 40mm scope on a fully extended sight bar. I only shoot 52 pounds on that bow at 27” draw... 

I haven’t run it through a chrono, but what’s the need? I’m betting it’s right there with my TRX 38.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

HalonShooter60X said:


> I was shocked on the lack of PSEs when I went to a 3D shoot in Yuma. The only PSE present that day was the one I brought with me from Pennsylvania....
> 
> I did see a metric crap load at Ben Avery a few weeks later though... Must be a regional thing. There is only one bow shop in Yuma and they only sell Mathews...


Yuma is actually in N. Mexico, lol. 

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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

friedm1 said:


> this is whats wrong with this thought process....99% of people who buy bows, regardless of brand, dont know or care about differences in cams.
> 
> also, for the record, bows now are good.* some are just boring and no fun to shoot. life is too short to shoot a 1994 Nissan Altima.*


:set1_applaud:



Predator said:


> I just read a draft of a press release which will be going on in the next week or so indicating that PSE is buying Hoyt.
> 
> Now what are you girls going to argue about when it comes to who make the best carbon bow? :mg::wink:


You read it wrong. Hoyt is buying PSE and re-naming it Hoyt 1/2. :wink:


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## Helic (Apr 11, 2019)

It all started with the RX1
Marketed as the finest hoyts ever made.
If it has the redwrx badge, it is the most meticulously crafted, most incredibly engineered product hoyt has ever manufactured.
The problem is...... it wasnt.
Didnt even last a year before hoyt recalled the cams, then trashed the line and rushed a replacement to market.
Problem was...... the RX3 had its own problems.


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## 881551 (Jun 2, 2018)

I actually met an employee with Hoyt awhile back. The guy was awesome.

Didn’t know Hoyt and Easton was same
Company. Allot of dealers here tell me this is their last year with Hoyt.

One dealer has sold 18 rx3 bows and had to send over half back already for issues. Popping noises etc. it’s sad. I hope they can come up with a resolution. 


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

ShootnBlind said:


> Each year they're creeping up to that 2K mark and I believe its a huge turn off to any returning customers as well as new.


am I the ONLY one who remembers the cost of the original carbon matrix many years ago? they have not even kept up with inflation or even close if we were to start at the Matrix as a baseline, I would say more the opposite.... inflation goes up, Hoyt carbon bows kinda stay the same in pricing.

people seem offended every year when the price of Hoyt carbon is announced, but to me, it pretty much seems the same every year, going up no more than any other flagship line.

I do think they would be better off dropping prices a little, but you also don't have to pay MSRP if you are a smart shopper. I have always had a soft spot for Hoyt carbons, for my neck of the woods, they are excellent hunting bows. overall I have liked everything about Hoyt carbon, from the amazing natural balance to draw cycle. the RX-1 is an amazing bow imo, for my needs they are as close to perfect as it gets.

I sold mine due to switching to stick bows, but if I got back into compounds, I would be looking at Hoyt carbon first.... of course it all boils down to personal taste.

I do see their price dropping in the future due to the complaints from the masses, but Hoyt is doing just fine. brand bashing is a very normal thing here, because AT is full of fan boys, and fan boys bash everything but the brand they shoot (may take it easy on another company because they secretly know that X brand is better than the brand they shoot, but they are too deeply invested in their fan boyism to admit it)


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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

Predator said:


> I just read a draft of a press release which will be going on in the next week or so indicating that PSE is buying Hoyt.
> 
> Now what are you girls going to argue about when it comes to who make the best carbon bow?


 and just like that- another rumor to deal with


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

It’s not a rumor , there for sale ! I don’t know if pse bought them or not but Hoyt archery is for sale ! I hope it was pse !


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Allen cox said:


> Predator said:
> 
> 
> > I just read a draft of a press release which will be going on in the next week or so indicating that PSE is buying Hoyt.
> ...


LOL! Joke.


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

Elite should buy them that way their price tag can actually be justified


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

deadturkey said:


> They are all in trouble due to crossbows.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


A lot of guys I know switched to crossbows.


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## Goneoutdoors (Dec 13, 2013)

Doebuster said:


> It’s not a rumor , there for sale ! I don’t know if pse bought them or not but Hoyt archery is for sale ! I hope it was pse !


just curious where you saw that?


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## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

rmscustom said:


> Right^^^
> 
> In the last few weeks I’ve tuned up 2 defiants for buds and it’s easy to see where the Hoyt train fell of the tracks. I had one too which was my last Hoyt.
> 
> ...


That's gospel right there. It would give you that stomach nausea feeling when you tried to tune it.


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## deadturkey (Mar 19, 2016)

I know of 2 shops closing in IL and 3 in Iowa. Hoyt rep wanted the shop I go to, to buy 5 carbon bows. Owner wouldn't do it. Said all bow sales are down and the only thing selling are xbows. Said he can't keep them in stock including the $2k priced ones. That is incredible. 

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## jeffsnguyen (Jul 9, 2019)

Whats the deal with crossbow?


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

jeffsnguyen said:


> Whats the deal with crossbow?


Alot of people are switching to crossbow.


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## OddJack (May 13, 2019)

Trouble how, financially? Or just because they are falling behind? 

Innovation is coming from the other 3, Math, PSE and Bowtech. Getting serious is now getting a little tedious. You need a little more than just a flashy but empty REDWRX logo.


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

This thread is awfully amusing. All this nonsense. I do know this for a fact:

More expensive bows do NOT make you a better archer. They are only a small percentage more forgiving, and that is VERY subjective, because at some point those extra bells and whistles stop helping to be more forgiving.


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## MtnOak (Feb 7, 2016)

The entire industry is in trouble, there were several bow shops in my neck of the woods once now there are just a few and those guys are talking about closing down shop, they all say the same thing " can't sell these over priced bows and accessories, the used bow market is killing new bow sales".

Kinda hard to argue when the shops that are left are saying the same thing.


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## Bluemax61 (Aug 9, 2014)

Hmmm... I had to take a minute or two, in deciding on posting in this thread. Lot of legit thoughts and comments - granted - some better than others.

When it first became apparent to me I was going to have to consider another bow (new or used because of shoulder surgery) I honestly thought Hoyt was a brand that was exclusive. And like others have said... the cost of their bows was just prohibitive to my simple little ole budget. But - I must admit... even though the carbon models were high in price, Hoyt does offer options, which I truly consider to be the class of the regarding aluminum riser bows. I certainly won’t argue that the carbon line - or any bow priced up near and over 1K, for that matter - is just ridiculous IMHO! 

However there is one bow, which I personally found to be on the cutting edge of technology at the time. And - in many ways - still is. I’m referring to the Nitrum series of course. I’m not sure “why” they discontinued this bow after is this initial release in 2015, I’ve found it to be one of Hoyt’s BEST offerings! And that’s exactly why I still use mine today - 4 years later - for hunting and the occasional 3D shoot. I also believe the Nitrum series uses the Z5 cam and as has already been stated... one of THE best cams ever from Hoyt! In fact, I believe you can still special order a Nitrum bow directly from Hoyt.

Either way, I wouldn’t be owning a Hoyt had I had to consider forking out 1K for a bow - from ANY manufacturer! As it is though, Hoyt made it possible - for me at least - to enjoy the benefits of a flagship model bow with their Nitrum series. :wink:


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## bmook019 (Jan 31, 2017)

With the growth of cross bows, target archery is the best way to improve business. Growing target archery is the best way to survive as a shop and industry. 

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## OddJack (May 13, 2019)

Bluemax61 said:


> Hmmm... I had to take a minute or two, in deciding on posting in this thread. Lot of legit thoughts and comments - granted - some better than others.
> 
> When it first became apparent to me I was going to have to consider another bow (new or used because of shoulder surgery) I honestly thought Hoyt was a brand that was exclusive. And like others have said... the cost of their bows was just prohibitive to my simple little ole budget. But - I must admit... even though the carbon models were high in price, Hoyt does offer options, which I truly consider to be the class of the regarding aluminum riser bows. I certainly won’t argue that the carbon line - or any bow priced up near and over 1K, for that matter - is just ridiculous IMHO!
> 
> ...


How would you describe the vibration/ handshock on the Nitrum?


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

The problem with most pro shops is they are ONLY archery pro shops. Archery alone is very seasonal, especially if you do not have a large target crowd to help when hunting season is inactive, to keep things rolling. The successful ones I've seen are coupled with other markets, and the really successful ones are coupled with markets that go hand-in-hand, like a firearms AND archery shop.

These small shops going under that are complaining about prices need to learn some business strategies. Hoyts too expensive for you, especially since they force you to have so much inventory annually? Then stop carrying them! There's several other mfg's with a wide variety of bow prices that can be used. PSE arguably has the best lineup of every price bracket in archery, along with crossbows and traditional bows too (even if they don't actually MAKE them in Tucson). Bear, Diamond/Bowtech/Stryker, Mathews/Mission, there are OTHER options besides Hoyt that can help a bow shop with sales.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Bluemax61 said:


> Hmmm... I had to take a minute or two, in deciding on posting in this thread. Lot of legit thoughts and comments - granted - some better than others.
> 
> When it first became apparent to me I was going to have to consider another bow (new or used because of shoulder surgery) I honestly thought Hoyt was a brand that was exclusive. And like others have said... the cost of their bows was just prohibitive to my simple little ole budget. But - I must admit... even though the carbon models were high in price, Hoyt does offer options, which I truly consider to be the class of the regarding aluminum riser bows. I certainly won’t argue that the carbon line - or any bow priced up near and over 1K, for that matter - is just ridiculous IMHO!
> 
> ...


You’re telling me I can call Hoyt and order a nitrum tomorrow that was made in like 2015???
Honestly I’d be surprised if you could still buy parts for one much less order a brand new special built one. Haha
And if the above is crazy enough to be true that really shows how much faith they have in their current offerings. Haha


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

rmscustom said:


> Honestly I’d be surprised if you could still buy parts for one much less order a brand new special built one. Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can, sorta. It's called the Nitrux. But it's a Nitrum. No wait it's a Powermax riser. No wait it has Nitrum cams. Wait they don't say Z5 on them. Holy crap now I'm confused! lol


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## _Splinter_ (Sep 10, 2018)

Mathews, Bowtech, and PSE have stole the show the past 2 years. If hybrid cams are your thing, Xpedition makes quality aluminum bows that weigh less than Hoyt's carbon line up. As stated Hoyt has been headed the wrong direction since the carbon spyder. The REDWRX marketing campaign gimmick was laughable. I don't think they could've put a cheaper feeling grip on a $1,500 bow. Plus Hoyt's finish isn't anything to write home about. Michael Waddell, Travis T-Bone Turner, Nick Mundt, and Cam Hanes must have to try hard not to be disappointed annually.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

I can't say that they are in trouble. I know some shops that sell the aluminums very well. We have done well with the Helix this year. My opinion comes from both sides of the counter. As a customer and as a person that can make a phone call to order just about anything. Customer Service issues/challenges have been my only upset with Hoyt on both sides. I have not shot or owned a hoyt very long. I had a Defiant Carbon Turbo that I bought and sold it two weeks later due to not liking it any more. Next year, I may purchase one. Depending on the price. I am not brand specific on my choice with bows, but how a company treats a customer/handles situation does add to my pot and thats been my only concern with Hoyt. I sold my first Carbon Bow this year and it was last years RX-1. I have yet to sell an RX-3 this year. People say that they are over prced and thats the biggest complaint I personally recieve. I let a guy set up one and by the time he set a aluminum hoyt and a rx-3 they were within ounces of each other. Which one do you think he went with ? But at the same time, customers complain about how heavy the vertix and SR6 is. I just chuckle to myself and laugh because I find it ironic. 

SO, is Hoyt in trouble ? I doubt it. There are areas that sell hoyt like crazy and then there are those that don't. I believe thats my area and understanding this I realize how many bows to order and how to sell one if I have someone interested in it. Most manufactors dont care about you have last years or how much you have. They just want order X amount bows so you can reach a certain price level then once thats taken place one is stuck with it. And tbh thats hard especially for smaller shops. I would love if they were to come down in price $1400 MSRP MAP $1250 MSRP. I believe stores would sell a lot more. Just my two cents. So not they aren't in trouble.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

JPR79 said:


> You can, sorta. It's called the Nitrux. But it's a Nitrum. No wait it's a Powermax riser. No wait it has Nitrum cams. Wait they don't say Z5 on them. Holy crap now I'm confused! lol


Oh yeah I forgot about their $900 budget bow called the Nitrux! Haha


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## tommygoodtimes (Aug 28, 2016)

deadturkey said:


> They are all in trouble due to crossbows.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I have to agree. The recent Cabela's Deer Hunting catalog has 4 bows and 11 crossbows advertised.


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## 1faith (Dec 8, 2010)

I shot Hoyt exclusively for many years because of a close friend who owned a local shop. I got a new bow every year or every other year and rarely ever had a Hoyt that I did not have tuning issues with. I finally decided to try other brands and to no longer be brand loyal and I have never looked back. I've only owned one carbon Hoyt and I hated it and while these are just my experiences I do know that Hoyt has really feel off in all the different archery shops that I go to, most have Hoyt, Mathews, Bowtech and or Elite. Hoyt and Elite seem to battle for last place in the shops that I frequent.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Predator said:


> I just read a draft of a press release which will be going on in the next week or so indicating that PSE is buying Hoyt.
> 
> Now what are you girls going to argue about when it comes to who make the best carbon bow? :mg::wink:




It’ll be fun then sweetheart because we will be shooting flying pigs [emoji241] if either Hoyt or PSE buy one another out.

BTW, was that draft near the permission draft Hoyt gave to PSE to copy its Matrix Tec back riser bar ? 


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

OddJack said:


> How would you describe the vibration/ handshock on the Nitrum?


Very minimal and certainly dependent on cam orientation and stabilization weight. 

In other words, excellent 


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> It’ll be fun then sweetheart because we will be shooting flying pigs [emoji241] if either Hoyt or PSE buy one another out.
> 
> BTW, was that draft near the permission draft Hoyt gave to PSE to copy its Matrix Tec back riser bar ?
> 
> ...




I believe it was Martin Archery that first developed the bridged riser.
Hoyt ran with it, but PSE nailed it.
There is beauty, in simplicity.


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## azscorpion (Feb 12, 2010)

But but but....Cammie Hanes is soooo cool ....this can't be:mg:


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> BTW, was that draft near the permission draft Hoyt gave to PSE to copy its Matrix Tec back riser bar ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Read post 83 and you’ll have your answer. Hoyt has never been the originator of technology. They copy others and are usually a couple years behind. They used to at least do it well “most” of the time but that’s not even true anymore.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Predator said:


> Read post 83 and you’ll have your answer. Hoyt has never been the originator of technology. They copy others and are usually a couple years behind. They used to at least do it well “most” of the time but that’s not even true anymore.


You miss the point. It’s not a matter of being first. Who cares ? It’s a matter of copying the actual Tec Matrix. Hoyt itself has now moved on to another Tec configuration. It’s still Tec, but shaped differently. Matrix and PSE are part near twins. I heard PSE paid Hoyt royalties for it too. 


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I was a hard core Hoyt guy for years. Then the Cam and 1/2 came along.
It never matched the Command and Master cams for.tuning.
They are trying to look dual cam but there is still offset of the cams. I think that the dual cam bows are more popular again. I would like to see a Hoyt dual cam with a flex cable guard , and 65/75% let-off on a hunting bow.
In the mean time the hard core Hoyt shooters will.likely remain loyal but I think those numbers are slipping as shooters give the dual cams a look.


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## Olink (Jan 10, 2003)

Bill 2311 said:


> I was a hard core Hoyt guy for years. Then the Cam and 1/2 came along.
> It never matched the Command and Master cams for.tuning.
> They are trying to look dual cam but there is still offset of the cams. I think that the dual cam bows are more popular again. I would like to see a Hoyt dual cam with a flex cable guard , and 65/75% let-off on a hunting bow.
> In the mean time the hard core Hoyt shooters will.likely remain loyal but I think those numbers are slipping as shooters give the dual cams a look.


I was a huge fan of the Command cams as well. With today's string materials, a true dual cam bow would be easy to keep in sync. I wish a major manufacture would make the leap back to a true dual cam. Although I shot Hoyts for years with their hybrid cams, I now feel that the hybrid cam is just a big PITA. Cam systems like PSE's or Bowtech's are just SO much easier to get tuned and shoot well. I've been saying it for years now, Hoyt needs to give up the ghost on the hybrid cam platform.


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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

Predator said:


> MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, was that draft near the permission draft Hoyt gave to PSE to copy its Matrix Tec back riser bar ?
> ...


 I thought they were the first to use split limbs, and or a shoot thru riser?? I could be wrong .


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## Gary66 (Jul 30, 2018)

First off.. you get what you pay for. All that testing and development isn’t free.. if your happy driving a Chevy don’t complain about the Bentley being so expensive. You drive what you can afford you shoot what you can afford. Second there’s deals out there you just have to find them. Third look at the production and development facilities., again that ain’t cheap. 1,500 dry fires 1 million cycles.. anyone else boasting that? Again isn’t cheap. I have been down the high tech high speed road and got burnt and by the looks of a lot of these postings so has many others. Instead of Hoyt coming down how about you come up!


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Gary66 said:


> First off.. you get what you pay for. All that testing and development isn’t free.. if your happy driving a Chevy don’t complain about the Bentley being so expensive. You drive what you can afford you shoot what you can afford. Second there’s deals out there you just have to find them. Third look at the production and development facilities., again that ain’t cheap. 1,500 dry fires 1 million cycles.. anyone else boasting that? Again isn’t cheap. I have been down the high tech high speed road and got burnt and by the looks of a lot of these postings so has many others. Instead of Hoyt coming down how about you come up!


This is whats I appreciates about yous Hoyts lovers. Fierce loyalty. 

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## trucker3573 (Feb 14, 2010)

They are releasing a new carbon bow that is down a touch in price so they are going bankrupt?? Must be something more to put into the giant hole in your story that would lead you to that conclusion. 

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## LMHS35 (Mar 29, 2012)

Seems like everyone I know is going to a crossbow now... Very unfortunate.


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## LMHS35 (Mar 29, 2012)

I feel there will be no way a company like Hoyt will ever be in trouble. They are to big and have way to many loyal customers.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Get what you pay for? No longer with Hoyt.


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## Gary66 (Jul 30, 2018)

Another childish thread.. Waste of everyone’s time. I’m convinced these threads are just people crying because they really wanted the Hoyt but had to settle for the whatever.. Get serious... grow up!


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## easton400 (Jun 17, 2007)

I have been a HOYT shooter for several years now and I’m very pleased with every bow that I have ever owned in those years that being said I am currently shooting a Spyder30 for 3D shooting and a Hyperforce for hunting I must say it is one of the best hunting bows I have ever shot I have no problem with the carbon bows, they do shoot good personally myself don’t feel the few advantages of a carbon bow constitutes a need for one but I thank HOYT, for making a good product through all these years and look forward to the rest of their line


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I think everyone going to X bows is for a reason..Xbows don't have all the timing/tuning/sighting/cam issues and everthing else under the sun problems..we live in a world of instant gratification...In fact I'm starting to see more recurve/traditional archers anymore..Adios


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

easton400 said:


> I have been a HOYT shooter for several years now and I’m very pleased with every bow that I have ever owned in those years that being said I am currently shooting a Spyder30 for 3D shooting and a Hyperforce for hunting I must say it is one of the best hunting bows I have ever shot I have no problem with the carbon bows, they do shoot good personally myself don’t feel the few advantages of a carbon bow constitutes a need for one but I thank HOYT, for making a good product through all these years and look forward to the rest of their line


The aluminum Spyder was my favorite Hoyt riser they ever made. I really liked the AM35 when it came out, as well. 

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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..I think everyone going to X bows is for a reason..Xbows don't have all the timing/tuning/sighting/cam issues and everthing else under the sun problems..we live in a world of instant gratification...In fact I'm starting to see more recurve/traditional archers anymore..Adios


I think you are only part right. We do live in a world of instant gratification but the reason so many people are flocking to Xbows is simple....laziness. Pure and simple. Most people are today are simply lazy. There is a reason why the military has such a small pool of applicants and everyone complains about how little young people do anymore. Xbows are just our sport's answer to that.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Gary66 said:


> Another childish thread.. Waste of everyone’s time. I’m convinced these threads are just people crying because they really wanted the Hoyt but had to settle for the whatever.. Get serious... grow up!


Really? Another guy that sleeps well at night cause he spent the most so he knows he’s got the best and thinks the haters are just poor broke wanna bes. Haha

I’d go buy a rx3 today if I thought it was the best. Well actually I would’ve bought one 6 months ago after I test drove one for a couple weeks I set up. 

Distant 4th place out of the big 4 for me. 


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..I think everyone going to X bows is for a reason..Xbows don't have all the timing/tuning/sighting/cam issues and everthing else under the sun problems..we live in a world of instant gratification...In fact I'm starting to see more recurve/traditional archers anymore..Adios


The crossbow scare must be an Eastern thing. I haven't known one archer here that has "switched" to crossbow. Of course you can't use them during bow season here unless you get an endorsement that you are disabled but I don't think you'd see a lot of archers switching even if they could. I could see a lot of people who were never really interested in archery using crossbows, though. 

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## Gary66 (Jul 30, 2018)

Pssssttt... hey buddy shhhh listen up... I have some inside information from the friend of a friend of my monkeys uncle.. Feradyne is buying all the archery companies.. it’s a 10 year plan to take over the archery world... it’s from a really good source.. PSE will be the first to fall then Bowtech.. shhhh don’t tell anyone.. there’s the next episode to your cartoon...


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## JC-XT (Feb 3, 2007)

LMHS35 said:


> I feel there will be no way a company like Hoyt will ever be in trouble. They are to big and have way to many loyal customers.


The same thing was said about Blockbuster Video, Kmart, Kodak, Eastern Airlines, etc.





Gary66 said:


> Another childish thread.. Waste of everyone’s time. I’m convinced these threads are just people crying because they really wanted the Hoyt but had to settle for the whatever.. Get serious... grow up!


Why is it childish? Seems like a decent discussion to me. And I think wasting time is one of AT's most appealing features anyway. 





4IDARCHER said:


> I think you are only part right. We do live in a world of instant gratification but the reason so many people are flocking to Xbows is simple....laziness. Pure and simple. Most people are today are simply lazy. There is a reason why the military has such a small pool of applicants and everyone complains about how little young people do anymore. Xbows are just our sport's answer to that.


The military MIGHT have such a small pool of applicants because of the endless wars and shady political warmongering and interventionism. It's a tough sell to ask someone to be in the military when the government (both parties) has turned it into a moneymaking operation for campaign donors and the industrial military complex.


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## mnpublic (Nov 16, 2018)

Gary66 said:


> Another childish thread.. Waste of everyone’s time. I’m convinced these threads are just people crying because they really wanted the Hoyt but had to settle for the whatever.. Get serious... grow up!


Some of us have had Hoyt... Then we "settled" for faster, smoother, easier to tune bows and saved a few hundred in the process. 

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## griffwar (Nov 15, 2012)

There all in trouble!! Just had to post something on this nonsense thread. lol


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## sharptrenton (Jul 8, 2006)

Hoyt's not in trouble. I heard that they are designing a crossbow that has a stock made from carbon fiber.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Allen cox said:


> I thought they were the first to use split limbs, and or a shoot thru riser?? I could be wrong .


In the end ? Haters gonna hate.

Martin this and Martin that. You hear it all the time. Where is Martin today ? Broke ! 

The new Martin, ain’t Martin of old. It’s a name being used.

For having so many claimed innovations, Martin rode them all right to the BK court. 


Why ? Because Martin just couldn’t get all that innovation to hook up so well on a bow. That’s why. Other companies paid Martin royalties and out bowed Martin hands down.

BTW ? I think Pete Shepley and PSE hold the most patents if that means anything. To me it don’t because it’s what you MAKE of them on a bow. Hoyt, PSE and Mathews have made top flight bows year in year out. Bowtech (Oregon) is a Johnny come lately.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

I’d wager Rex Darlington holds the most archery related patents.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

spike camp said:


> I’d wager Rex Darlington holds the most archery related patents.


I’d say you’d be wrong. Rex BUYS his patents. Let’s not forget. Or atleast his big patents were bought.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Allen cox said:


> I thought they were the first to use split limbs, and or a shoot thru riser?? I could be wrong .


Nope. Wrong in both cases.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> I’d say you’d be wrong. Rex BUYS his patents. Let’s not forget. Or atleast his big patents were bought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




If Rex bought patents, he still owns them.

Who owns more patents....Rex or Pete?


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> It’s not a matter of being first. Who cares ? It’s a matter of copying the actual Tec Matrix. Hoyt itself has now moved on to another Tec configuration. It’s still Tec, but shaped differently. Matrix and PSE are part near twins. I heard PSE paid Hoyt royalties for it too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you are talking about developing the tech it is about being first. Beyond that, who cares about copying - it's then about doing it the best. As I stated Hoyt used to be decent in that space - used to be. Hoyt moving to a new TEC shape for their risers doesn't make them any better. In fact, they just got heavier and thus lost the point of a carbon riser - lighter while maintaining stiffness. PSE has actually accomplished that whereas you can buy aluminum bows of the same specs from certain brands that are lighter than Hoyt carbons (and of course, much more reasonably priced).


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## Buellhunter (Sep 2, 2006)

Just the beginning of the long term effects of buying habits of the bulk of archers.
The internet, particularly Amazon, is killing the full time Pro Shop.
They are closing at a record rate, I just closed one of mine. 5 closed in Illinois in the last month or so. This is AT so I am sure we all sucked and deserved to close.
Acc, arrows, trail cameras, tree stands, etc etc etc that pro shops used to be able to sell and make a fair profit.
Gone to Amazon and other big retailers. 

Pretty much all we have left is the new bows.
Manufacturers continue to cut our margins so they can continue to make the same profit, hold the price to the consumer, the pro shop makes less per bow. (yaaayyyy)

The 1.00 a piece broadheads that Amazon and other sites sell. I sell 20% of the broadheads I did 10 years ago because of it. profit, gone.
Every company having 8000 "Field Staff" that buy direct and sell out their back door to all their friends so they can be "the big man". Profit, gone.
Bow companies selling direct to way too many "Youtube" stars and "hunting groups". Profit, gone.

So, yep, the Pro Shop business is tough. Just the way it is.
As more close, the bow companies sell fewer bows. Fewer people are able to see, feel, shoot, their new bows. Less people buy bows.

The spiral goes like this,
Full time Pro Shops suffer and eventually close
Big box type stores suffer, stock less hunting stuff and more jock straps and tennis shoes
The manufacturers suffer
The consumer suffers.

Enjoy.


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## jewalker7842 (Aug 15, 2011)

deadturkey said:


> They are all in trouble due to crossbows.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I concur.


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## rok1167 (Sep 20, 2007)

Ingo said:


> MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:
> 
> 
> > Hoyts Carbon bows are NOT overpriced. PSE or Bowtech do not make anywhere as nice, shooting, quality or aesthetics in their Carbon bows. PSE coco whatever construction looks like a boat oar, imho. J shot PSE far more years than Hoyt.
> ...


Hour is pushing the aluminum riser, that’s why Cam Hanes and others are shooting them. The rx3 ultra is the best bow ever made, it’s just a fact. The helix ultra is probably just as good without the higher price tag for those that don’t comprehend that Hoyt’s aluminum riser bows are no more expensive than Mathews etc. not sure why people compare carbon to alum prices


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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

Predator said:


> MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:
> 
> 
> > It’s not a matter of being first. Who cares ? It’s a matter of copying the actual Tec Matrix. Hoyt itself has now moved on to another Tec configuration. It’s still Tec, but shaped differently. Matrix and PSE are part near twins. I heard PSE paid Hoyt royalties for it too.
> ...


 dont take this to heart- this dude has about 4 best bows every year lol.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

rok1167 said:


> Hour is pushing the aluminum riser, that’s why Cam Hanes and others are shooting them. The rx3 ultra is the best bow ever made, it’s just a fact. The helix ultra is probably just as good without the higher price tag for those that don’t comprehend that Hoyt’s aluminum riser bows are no more expensive than Mathews etc. not sure why people compare carbon to alum prices


Why is the rx3 ultra the best bow ever made? I wanna hear the facts. 
Is it the spongy back wall?
The 7-8 FPS that it comes in under its ibo rating?
The fact it’s actually 4.4lbs?

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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

rmscustom said:


> Why is the rx3 ultra the best bow ever made? I wanna hear the facts.
> Is it the spongy back wall?
> The 7-8 FPS that it comes in under its ibo rating?
> The fact it’s actually 4.4lbs?
> ...


Nope, it’s The crooked Chinese riser with the elcheapo side plate “fix”.


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## rok1167 (Sep 20, 2007)

rmscustom said:


> rok1167 said:
> 
> 
> > Hour is pushing the aluminum riser, that’s why Cam Hanes and others are shooting them. The rx3 ultra is the best bow ever made, it’s just a fact. The helix ultra is probably just as good without the higher price tag for those that don’t comprehend that Hoyt’s aluminum riser bows are no more expensive than Mathews etc. not sure why people compare carbon to alum prices
> ...


I like the back wall a lot, that’s a fact. 7-8 fps means nothing, fact . 4.4 lbs is basically as light or lighter than any other bow you would compare it to, or close enough to be negligible, fact. And the draw cycle is the best ever, fact.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

rok1167 said:


> I like the back wall a lot, that’s a fact. 7-8 fps means nothing, fact . 4.4 lbs is basically as light or lighter than any other bow you would compare it to, or close enough to be negligible, fact. And the draw cycle is the best ever, fact.


I tend to agree, but the bs riser issue scared me off. Hopefully they step it up for ‘20.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Lol! Not a single one of those items is “FACT”. Just (arguably misinformed) opinions.


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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

Ye, everybody knows those facts belong to Elites.


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..Just got back from a pro shop..Asked them about Hoyt and they said "All Is Good"


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## Kylakebuck (Aug 20, 2019)

I’ve been hearing this rumor for over 2 years now? 🤔


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## rok1167 (Sep 20, 2007)

Predator said:


> Lol! Not a single one of those items is “FACT”. Just (arguably misinformed) opinions.


I’m not sure you comprehend English well. At least one of those things is fact, and probably all are facts. It is a fact, that I do indeed love the back wall. The draw cycle quality may be considered an opinion, but those that disagree are just haters.


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

Buellhunter said:


> Just the beginning of the long term effects of buying habits of the bulk of archers.
> The internet, particularly Amazon, is killing the full time Pro Shop.
> They are closing at a record rate, I just closed one of mine. 5 closed in Illinois in the last month or so. This is AT so I am sure we all sucked and deserved to close.
> Acc, arrows, trail cameras, tree stands, etc etc etc that pro shops used to be able to sell and make a fair profit.
> ...


Bingo


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## 78Staff (Dec 31, 2002)

rmscustom said:


> Why is the rx3 ultra the best bow ever made? I wanna hear the facts.
> Is it the spongy back wall?
> The 7-8 FPS that it comes in under its ibo rating?
> The fact it’s actually 4.4lbs?
> ...


I like the wall, but I am shooting 80% mods - don't know that that would make a difference though.
First report I've seen claiming under IBO - most reviews praise the speed of the ZT Pro's and show it meeting IBO?
Mine was 4.2 - valid complaint, though. Def not 3.9 but I guess that's without the wiggly bits n such...\

Anyway, very happy with mine, again other than the sight plate issue and the handling of it - as was already stated by someone in some other Hoyt bashing thread - if the RX-3's would have come with that plate from the get go, no one would be complaining, as it looks right at home. But they definitely handled it poorly with CS initially denying the issue, etc (Hi Pete) .

EDIT - sorry I am referring to the RX-3, not the Ultra version.


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## jballz01 (Sep 23, 2018)

For pretty much every manufacturer...


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

rok1167 said:


> I’m not sure you comprehend English well. At least one of those things is fact, and probably all are facts. It is a fact, that I do indeed love the back wall. The draw cycle quality may be considered an opinion, but those that disagree are just haters.


[emoji23]

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## rbnhood66 (Jan 14, 2014)

Allen cox said:


> I thought they were the first to use split limbs, and or a shoot thru riser?? I could be wrong .


Not sure, but thought High Country was the first to do a split limb. Could be wrong, that was a way long time ago.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

rok1167 said:


> Predator said:
> 
> 
> > Lol! Not a single one of those items is “FACT”. Just (arguably misinformed) opinions.
> ...


No, I’m not sure you comprehend what a “fact” is. One might argue the first is a fact but I would argue you might not know any better and that, in any case, it’s a moot point. The other 3 aren’t even sniffing fact.


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

rok1167 said:


> I like the back wall a lot, that’s a fact. 7-8 fps means nothing, fact . 4.4 lbs is basically as light or lighter than any other bow you would compare it to, or close enough to be negligible, fact. And the draw cycle is the best ever, fact.


Lol, not sure if you are doing an awesome trolling job or just don't know what fact means.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

4IDARCHER said:


> I think you are only part right. We do live in a world of instant gratification but the reason so many people are flocking to Xbows is simple....laziness. Pure and simple. Most people are today are simply lazy. There is a reason why the military has such a small pool of applicants and everyone complains about how little young people do anymore. Xbows are just our sport's answer to that.


natural progression... going from a trad bow to compound is like going from a compound to a cross bow.... people want to kill stuff to post on social media, because it's the cool thing to do, but they don't have the desire to put in the effort. I think it's fairly predictable just looking back through recent history.

I say more power to them, if they are having fun, cool..... I don't need to point out "that buck was killed with an x-bow" to validate myself with my weapon of choice, i'll happily listen to any hunting story, and unless they make disgusting decisions (imo) I will be genuinely happy for them.

I would rather hear about a greenhorns first deer with an x-bow vs some ego maniac telling a hunting story just to tout his hunting prowess, if the hunter is genuinely excited, i'm excited for them. of course I have my set of criteria I think is ok and what's not, but i'm not going to interject that on everyone I talk to.


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## sharptrenton (Jul 8, 2006)

I think Hoyt is doing just fine. They may be losing some ground on hunting bow sales in the US but I think they still sell quite a few target compounds and recurves around the world.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

spike camp said:


> If Rex bought patents, he still owns them.
> 
> Who owns more patents....Rex or Pete?


Rex got big into Xbow patents. Owning a patent is not the creative part to making a development.

Rex might be the smartest in the business and is no dummy either. 

I don’t think Pete Shepley developed anything in ages. So yeah, I’d say Rex prolly possesses more because that’s what he specialized in, buying up ideas. While Shepley was concentrating on selling the most comprehensive line of bows.

2 different mind sets. Shelley’s success @ PSE blows away Darton’s success hand down. Might be why Rex went all in on patents and took his royalty check every month.


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## badshaw24 (Jul 30, 2015)

I think if they cant get the price down or there bows some amazing feature that people have to have they will be hurting soon if there not already. I love Hoyt bows and think they look great but would never pay that much for one.


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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

rbnhood66 said:


> Allen cox said:
> 
> 
> > I thought they were the first to use split limbs, and or a shoot thru riser?? I could be wrong .
> ...


 maby Caldwell? But hoyt made it popular and split risers.


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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

Let me reword that- shoot thru riser.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Mathias said:


> Nope, it’s The crooked Chinese riser with the elcheapo side plate “fix”.




Yeah I’m a Hoyt shooter now, for the time being. I don’t see this new Hoyt Carbon as the best ever ? But to each their own.

Couple things unHoytlike ? When have you heard Hoyt not exceeding speed ? Now they come in slower ? The Z5 cam from 5 years ago came consistently 1-3 FPS over ibo speeds. Now they make the newest greatest cam,,,, and its 4 FPS slower than stated ibo and factor that 1-3 FPS over stated speeds, we net out with a 7 FPS slower but better cam ? Lol [emoji23] I’m a car dealer, that ain’t closing me into updating. 

Weight ? First thing I noticed with the rx1 and 3. It’s aluminum weightwise. I thought it was intended so 3D shooters would partake , so that was strike 2 to me. 

Strike 3 ? I ain’t paying $1250, hard negotiating for a bent carbon riser that I need a “plate” added on to square up. Are you freaking kidding me ???? Lol [emoji23]. Again, this from a Hoyt wannabe shooter who owns 6-7 Hoyts.

Just for the helllllllllllll of it ? That Vertix is looking great. Looks like it would fit right on the bow holder of my ATV, better than my Carbon or Nitrum or Element or Matrix or Alpha Max , all hard to strap in risers (Tec) Sux for that. Shooting hogs under a feeder, who cares about 70+ yard shots out west ? I’m debating hard and we’ll see in January or February. 

Hoyt is dis-impressing me.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> 2 different mind sets. Shelley’s success @ PSE blows away Darton’s success hand down. Might be why Rex went all in on patents and took his royalty check every month.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Agree 100%
Shepely must be in the top 3 most successful in the business.


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## 881551 (Jun 2, 2018)

Have y’all closed the doors if Hoyt yet with all the comments?

I will day one more thing I’ve tried Hoyt and they are not for me!

I did have a carbon spyder 30 and 34 with z5 cams that I shot amazing. First I got tired of peep rotation with the kids my strings do they had to go. And then I got tired of the cams coming out of sync after a couple hundred shots.

I tried a rx3, rx3 turbo, and a rx3 ultra and none were for me.

They look awesome, they have awesome advertisement, they send cool stuff with their bows.

The crooked sight plate issues with a 7.00 shim kit is junk! Many dealers cracked the risers trying to replace the side plate.

The side plate doesn’t fix all the issues! 

That carbon defiant was a joke with the tuning issues.

Turbo cams last year on the rx1 was a joke.

I should have known better this year but wanted to try for my self so I would have valid information to stand on instead just posting now having any personal experience.

Allot of the bows make a .22 popping sound.

They look cool, the soft case and hat is nice, and the little key chain is neat. But the bows are purely over priced trouble! Then it takes Hoyt weeks once you send a bow back to get it fixed and they practically rebuild it with this long list of things they done! What? Rebuild a new bow? Yes they pull them apart shave this shave that, clean out this clean out that, then you get your bow back and weeks later more issues again. 3 folks I know this is the story! 

You will see a huge over stock blowout of them for sale on eBay here in a few months. 

They bows look awesome but that’s the extent of it, they are smooth and quite and seem to hold ibo well. I am not interested there is far better options for allot let money with allot less problems. 

I know here we have a few Hoyt dealers left and a few of them said this is the last year with Hoyt. Folks say well it’s because Hoyt dropped them! Nope not the case they drop Hoyt because it has hurt their business.

One shop told me the hours this year hurt his business like the bowtechs did few years ago with all the limb failures. He now has lost buyers to both brands and is thankful he sales Mathews and some are coming back around to Bowtech since the realm series. This shop is do hard pro Hoyt and all them are shooting the sr6 this year! 

All companies have ups and downs, all companies struggle. I think compound archery is a dying breed! Man I remember when most my buddies would come lever 5-9 of us and shoot now you can’t even find 1 hardly to come shoot with! They’ve either just quit hunting because life is busy, or they have switched to a cross bow. Archery talk makes up a very small aspect of bow hunters. Most folks love the fact they can hunt archery season to wait on a firearm season and so with many states making cross bows legal including here folks buy a new cross bow every 2-4 years. They don’t shoot them but a few days before season make sure they are sighted in and they can hunt out of their rifle box stands because they are so compact. They can take further shots with less practice and kill deer just as dead. There is not allot of avid compound bow hunters that purely bow hunt like there once was. Sure there are folks like me and most of you who never pickup a firearm to hunt with but for the most part folks are so busy with work, family, etc. they take the easy route of the cross bow! Cross bow manufactures are paying big money in cross bow tournaments. Also their advertisements of sub Moa had led the newer hunters to thinking they can take animals at 100 yards with a cross bow which is ridiculous even though it can be done I am sure. 

So Hoyt May be in trouble. I know their sales are way down around here but again that only makes up a small part of the market. Read today that a pile of archery shops have closed down just this year. Here we have lost 3 in the last 2 years and 2 more are talking about closing the doors end of this year. 

Cross bows can be sold online, delivered to your door, simple installation, comes with everything but broad heads and they even offer packages with everything including a target. Click buy now and it’s at your door in a week. Install, go out sight in 20 yards and they are ready to conquer the world in archery! Simple easy and not much practice required.

I am scared of cross bows, but I am also scared of Hoyt bows! 

I was injured awhile back and had to use a cross bow and I hated it. But man was it easy, I bought a Stryker ls390 within 5 minutes I was dialed in. No tuning, no press, no peep sight, no form, no nothing. And at 80 yards you couldn’t shoot the same spot! 

So states allowing cross bow hunting has hurt the compound archery world! It has also led to more deer kills as more folks who normally wouldn’t be in the woods are now in the woods. It also allows people to make longer shots they wouldn’t make before. 

Cross bow guys don’t got to get on here and ask questions because most never have any questions they just cock and pull the trigger! 

Archery talk is dying As well unfortunately it’s really become a swap, shop, drop meet!

I am guilty for this as well!

Honestly I love this sight and All you guys but I think allot of companies in the compound archery world are in a little bit of trouble. The wise companies knew they better get to the drawing board and offer a cross bow line and a good one at that. I think Mathews with their mission cross bows makes some very nice cross bows. 

Bowtech bought out xcalibor and closed down the Stryker line. 

Elite came out with the cam x line of cross bows.

Carbon express came out with their own line.

Parker is no longer in business as part of the dying sport and they were one of the pioneers of cross bows in my opinion. 

I am sure there are others.

So maybe Hoyt will make a 6000.00 rx-sonic Carbon cross bow that has true dual cams and keep the doors open!

I think crossman air rifles owns ravin.

Enough of my rant.

Looking forwards to seeing what the companies do for 2020 always exciting to see! In the mean time I am about to get away from archery talk and shoot my bows and do some hunting!


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## Throttlebender (Jan 8, 2018)

interesting point


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## GregBFL (Aug 4, 2019)

I agree with the growing popularity of crossbows, but in the WMAs in Florida you can only use a crossbow during archery season if you are disabled and get a special permit. Other than that, you have to use them in General Gun and I haven't seen anyone doing that. Do other states allow everyone to use crossbows during regular archery season?


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## 78Staff (Dec 31, 2002)

GregBFL said:


> I agree with the growing popularity of crossbows, but in the WMAs in Florida you can only use a crossbow during archery season if you are disabled and get a special permit. Other than that, you have to use them in General Gun and I haven't seen anyone doing that. Do other states allow everyone to use crossbows during regular archery season?


I was wondering if something had changed (I hunt mainly in Ga so haven't kept up with all the changes for FL), b/c my local shop is selling xbows like crazy it seems - even the $2k+ models - and the guys I see buying them you wouldn't think would be getting disabled permits. Of course, I suppose they just aren't hunting WMA's...


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## OddJack (May 13, 2019)

It's not amazon that's closing the archery shops, it's less and less demands. The trends that are going away from what they have to offer.

amazon doesnt sell Harley Davidsons, so why are the sales down? Because Harley riders are a dying breed.


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

This went from is Hoyt in trouble to is Archery as a whole in trouble. I'm 36. Archery will still be around by time I'm dead. Gun ownership is in trouble. Worry more about when the man comes into your homes unannounced to grab your firearms. From what I've seen and heard the men of today ain't the Patriots who fought and died for this country. So the confiscation will be a breeze for the government. Worry about your guns not your bows.


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

PostalRandy23 said:


> This went from is Hoyt in trouble to is Archery as a whole in trouble. I'm 36. Archery will still be around by time I'm dead. Gun ownership is in trouble. Worry more about when the man comes into your homes unannounced to grab your firearms. From what I've seen and heard the men of today ain't the Patriots who fought and died for this country. So the confiscation will be a breeze for the government. Worry about your guns not your bows.


Amen!

NC

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## 881551 (Jun 2, 2018)

PostalRandy23 said:


> This went from is Hoyt in trouble to is Archery as a whole in trouble. I'm 36. Archery will still be around by time I'm dead. Gun ownership is in trouble. Worry more about when the man comes into your homes unannounced to grab your firearms. From what I've seen and heard the men of today ain't the Patriots who fought and died for this country. So the confiscation will be a breeze for the government. Worry about your guns not your bows.


I would agree.

But again Randy you missed the total mark again!

This post was about Hoyt being in trouble, the reason Hoyt is in trouble is 2 fold.

1. Their producing bows that are not up to the quality standards they should be.

2. Less people are buying compound bows and especially high dollar compound bows.

Number 3 this isn’t a fire arm forum and this post had nothing to do with fire arms! This is why archery talk is going to pieces with post like yours! I am a conservative republican and I understand your intent and I stand on the second amendment! However your post has no business here as it’s not archery related at all!

Hoyt’s sales, elites sales, allot of companies sales are down due to cross bows.

Also allot of states have made it legal to hunt with a cross bow without the need or a permit!

So I wish the mods would just close this thread! It’s funny how they pick and choose what they close another buddy system!


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## 881551 (Jun 2, 2018)

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## Durr (Jan 1, 2019)

I have been having a huge tuning issue with my pro defiant 34


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

BottomLand54 said:


> I would agree.
> 
> But again Randy you missed the total mark again!
> 
> ...


My point is very relevant to the thread. It turned into a archery is in trouble thread. Archery isnt in trouble. I pointed out what is in trouble and to focus on that instead. To say archery is in trouble is ridiculous.


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## 881551 (Jun 2, 2018)

PostalRandy23 said:


> My point is very relevant to the thread. It turned into a archery is in trouble thread. Archery isnt in trouble. I pointed out what is in trouble and to focus on that instead. To say archery is in trouble is ridiculous.


Nah it’s not, it may not be in trouble Where your at but here it is. Shops are closing by the droves! If archery was that good they wouldn’t be closing![emoji6][emoji85]


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## DaveHawk (Jul 16, 2009)

I have been shooting my Hoyt Carbon Element RKT since 2012. And shooting very well I might add. Yea, it was a chunk of change, but I don't trade up every year. I feel like i've gotten my money's worth.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

BottomLand54 said:


> Nah it’s not, it may not be in trouble Where your at but here it is. Shops are closing by the droves! If archery was that good they wouldn’t be closing![emoji6][emoji85]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Archery isn’t in trouble, archery shops are, though.
Crossbows, online sales and used bow market, crushes archery shops.

Once an individual learns to wrench on their own equipment, an archery shop becomes obsolete.


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

I’ll stick with my 07 Bear Instinct that I paid $200 new loaded.


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

PostalRandy23 said:


> My point is very relevant to the thread. It turned into a archery is in trouble thread. Archery isnt in trouble. I pointed out what is in trouble and to focus on that instead. To say archery is in trouble is ridiculous.


guys, did you know randys dad is an engineer? and not a stupid archery engineer, he works on important things our tiny brains wouldn't understand. seriously, his dad is very important.


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## bschell83 (Aug 22, 2019)

i hope not


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## nicko (Feb 17, 2006)

According to many, Elite has been circling the drain for years. 

I suspect Hoyt will be fine.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Durr said:


> I have been having a huge tuning issue with my pro defiant 34


What’s going on with the tune ?

Is it a old #2 cam ? 


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

PostalRandy23 said:


> This went from is Hoyt in trouble to is Archery as a whole in trouble. I'm 36. Archery will still be around by time I'm dead. Gun ownership is in trouble. Worry more about when the man comes into your homes unannounced to grab your firearms. From what I've seen and heard the men of today ain't the Patriots who fought and died for this country. So the confiscation will be a breeze for the government. Worry about your guns not your bows.




100% correct !

Who cares who goes out of business? None of them are paying my bills but I’m chipping in and paying theirs. 

Hoyt goes out of business, I’ll buy a PSE or Mathews. 

As for coming to get my guns ? Well I’m not a young man like you. I played most my life out. They bumrush my house for my guns, someone is leaving in a bodybag, me or them, but definitely someone ain’t gonna be able to talk about it. I go down with my home as it comes under attack by a tyrannical government.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> 100% correct !
> 
> Who cares who goes out of business? None of them are paying my bills but I’m chipping in and paying theirs.
> 
> ...



What if your entire family was in the house with you?
Would you let your entire family perish too, or hand over your guns?


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## Bluemax61 (Aug 9, 2014)

OddJack said:


> How would you describe the vibration/ handshock on the Nitrum?





MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Very minimal and certainly dependent on cam orientation and stabilization weight.
> 
> In other words, excellent.



Thanks MIKEY - you answered it for me... :wink:


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

spike camp said:


> What if your entire family was in the house with you?
> Would you let your entire family perish too, or hand over your guns?


I'm not married, and too old for kids. My guns @ my age, i'm 60, and living "diminishing returns" are a part of my life,not just to protect my home and well being but as other tools in the field. Can't budge.

Now if I were 40 ???? Yeah, i'd let the crazy old men fight it out for me. 

Remember Patrick Henry, his spirit lives today. It's the American Patriot spirit.


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

I can say in Michigan that Mathews dominates easily!!!!



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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Bluemax61 said:


> Thanks MIKEY - you answered it for me... :wink:




Excellent bow because that Z5 cam simply just makes it happen. Hoyt still doesn't have an answer for it and hasn't bettered it IMHO .


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

spike camp said:


> What if your entire family was in the house with you?
> Would you let your entire family perish too, or hand over your guns?


And this is why America is in trouble. Those who founded this country did what they had to for future generations. They didnt have these selfish self preserving thoughts. Now a man will use his family as an excuse to back down. But that's a conversation for a different thread.


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## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

Durr said:


> I have been having a huge tuning issue with my pro defiant 34


It won't get any better unless you forget what you know about tuning Hoyts.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

spike camp said:


> What if your entire family was in the house with you?
> Would you let your entire family perish too, or hand over your guns?


lets not get too deep into this conversation!! haha.... you and I know what would happen, no need to convince anyone of it, you won't hear how it would got down through text on AT.... I hope it never comes to that in any form, and I don't see it..... we know there won't be mountains of "cold dead hands" with guns in the *in real life*


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

roosiebull said:


> lets not get too deep into this conversation!! haha.... you and I know what would happen, no need to convince anyone of it, you won't hear how it would got down through text on AT.... I hope it never comes to that in any form, and I don't see it..... we know there won't be mountains of "cold dead hands" with guns in the *in real life*




I just figured...what a Hoyt thread, without discussing killing people!
Seriously though, this thread has been awesome.


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## Goathollerbucks (Aug 29, 2011)

I personally, would hope they’re feeling some pressure from their mistakes the last few years. Because that’s the only thing that will make something change for the better. I love my Hoyt, but it’s to a point to where I spend more time tuning than enjoying the bow. Which for the money should be quite the opposite.


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

Love single cam bows !


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## ekimox (Oct 13, 2017)

The problem with Hoyt is that there are plenty of guys out there (myself included) that can easily afford one of their flagship bows but the competition simply makes a better product. It comes down to justifiable value. No one could ever look at a Hoyt carbon bow and honestly justify its value vs a top tier bow from a competing manufacturer. Ever. Are they 50% better than the latest Bowtech or Mathews? Not a freaking chance.

They shot themselves in the foot with spending their time and energy on marketing instead of working out the bugs of their designs/cams before the bows reach the masses. I should have learned my lesson after my Pro Defiant 34 debacle but once again fell for the hype of an RX-1 Turbo. Cam recalls, cracks in the finish, and extremely poor customer service = NEVER AGAIN. 

Hoyt loyalists can try and justify their purchases all they want. Take off your rose colored glasses and stop drinking the Kool Aid. Hoyt do not make the best bows by a long shot.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

ekimox said:


> The problem with Hoyt is that there are plenty of guys out there (myself included) that can easily afford one of their flagship bows but the competition simply makes a better product. It comes down to justifiable value. No one could ever look at a Hoyt carbon bow and honestly justify its value vs a top tier bow from a competing manufacturer. Ever. Are they 50% better than the latest Bowtech or Mathews? Not a freaking chance.
> 
> They shot themselves in the foot with spending their time and energy on marketing instead of working out the bugs of their designs/cams before the bows reach the masses. I should have learned my lesson after my Pro Defiant 34 debacle but once again fell for the hype of an RX-1 Turbo. Cam recalls, cracks in the finish, and extremely poor customer service = NEVER AGAIN.
> 
> Hoyt loyalists can try and justify their purchases all they want. Take off your rose colored glasses and stop drinking the Kool Aid. Hoyt do not make the best bows by a long shot.


kind of a funny reply:wink:

new bows in general are a terrible investment, regardless of the brand, the depreciate instantly, and none are that much better than the next.... or than bows of the last 10 yrs..... justifiable cost? ok.....


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

This thread is borderline ridiculous. 

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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

spike camp said:


> I just figured...what a Hoyt thread, without discussing killing people!
> Seriously though, this thread has been awesome.


they always are:wink:


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## Ragin-Cajun (Jul 2, 2013)

All but of one of the bows I’ve ever owned have been Hoyt.. I shot 5 bows yesterday and the SR6 and the RX3 were my top 2. I would be very happy w the RX3 but fwiw I’m not paying an xtra $500 for the carbon Hoyt.


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## 881551 (Jun 2, 2018)

I heard Hoyt had a meeting today because of this thread!

Said for 2020 they will receive a government bailout from Bernie and give away free bows called the crooked Hillary!


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## mnpublic (Nov 16, 2018)

BottomLand54 said:


> I heard Hoyt had a meeting today because of this thread!
> 
> Said for 2020 they will receive a government bailout from Bernie and give away free bows called the crooked Hillary!
> 
> ...


Will they throw in the donnie trump "twitter fingers" release in with the RTH package?

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## Carbonite (Feb 18, 2018)

I hope not.


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## Kitchenfamily06 (Aug 25, 2019)

I believe the Elite is the best company out there today. They are out selling everyone because of there customer service and the price/quality of their product. In my opinion I think every other company out there is worried because of what elite is bringing to the table with there bows.


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## 78Staff (Dec 31, 2002)

Kitchenfamily06 said:


> I believe the Elite is the best company out there today. They are out selling everyone because of there customer service and the price/quality of their product. In my opinion I think every other company out there is worried because of what elite is bringing to the table with there bows.


That's interesting, b/c you can't give away an Elite in my area. Just depends on the region (and the shop I suppose) as to what's popular. Here it's the big 3 Mathews Hoyt Bowtech in that order, then there is another shop that really pushes Prime (possibly b/c they can't carry Mathews or Hoyt due to dealer protected territory - not sure how Bowtech works but they don't carry them either). Elite is non-existent, and now that they've gone to Internet sales I doubt any of our shops will bother with them. Not saying they are bad or good, just that they are not popular in my area.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I once had a customer tell me he shoots hoyts because you can dry fire them.Talk about a limb decal zombie.....Grizz


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## Landbarron (Jul 6, 2018)

With any company there are some down times.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

ekimox said:


> The problem with Hoyt is that there are plenty of guys out there (myself included) that can easily afford one of their flagship bows but the competition simply makes a better product. It comes down to justifiable value. No one could ever look at a Hoyt carbon bow and honestly justify its value vs a top tier bow from a competing manufacturer. Ever. Are they 50% better than the latest Bowtech or Mathews? Not a freaking chance.
> 
> They shot themselves in the foot with spending their time and energy on marketing instead of working out the bugs of their designs/cams before the bows reach the masses. I should have learned my lesson after my Pro Defiant 34 debacle but once again fell for the hype of an RX-1 Turbo. Cam recalls, cracks in the finish, and extremely poor customer service = NEVER AGAIN.
> 
> Hoyt loyalists can try and justify their purchases all they want. Take off your rose colored glasses and stop drinking the Kool Aid. Hoyt do not make the best bows by a long shot.




I can just say that your opinion. J happen to totally disagree with you concerning Hoyt and their carbon bows. 

I do perfectly agree with your assessment of Hoyt starting from the Defiant series to the current carbon, as being subpar to my expectations and totally inferior #2 Defiant cam that wouldn’t paper tune.

I have since settled on Hoyts Z5 cam and namely the Carbon SpyderTurbo Z5 cam. Hoyt has NOT exceeded that bow since imho, I shot every new Hoyt since and passed.

So much so, and with disgust, I bought 2 almost new Nitrum 34’s Z5 as back up bows because to me, the newer Hoyt cams suckkkkkked. No increase in speed since 2014 unless you go Turbo cam and for what speed you gain, you lose in smootheness. Why change cams if you don’t make them better ? 

I’m close to buying a Vertix but the grip is stopping me. I don’t wanna go back to PSE because I shot them for about 15 years, I’m bored.

As for Elite being the “best” ? I heard those NY Wall Street types that own Elite want out, or were going to pull the plug ? So people are saying Hoyt’s in trouble ? I heard Elite was and has been.

Bottom line ? Who cares. I don’t. I’ll stick with what I got, I still think it’s better than what’s out there right now.


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## miscexpense (Feb 7, 2018)

Larry brown said:


> They are in as much trouble as everyone else, sometimes they realize hey we made a mistake and lower prices or some years certain bows just don’t sell as well. You have to look at it over a period not just one year. They don’t market quite as much as Mathews, which has the most in marketing of any brand, but they aren’t in trouble in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My thought too, they all have had some struggles. I spoke with a lumenock rep and they really struggled due to crossbows for a while. The companies have to give what the customer wants. Right now that is crossbows, they will come back around to us soon.


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## Michael chiong (Nov 3, 2017)

following


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## Monkeybutt2000 (May 7, 2009)

Kitchenfamily06 said:


> I believe the Elite is the best company out there today. They are out selling everyone because of there customer service and the price/quality of their product. In my opinion I think every other company out there is worried because of what elite is bringing to the table with there bows.


:set1_rolf2:


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

***Grizz*** said:


> I once had a customer tell me he shoots hoyts because you can dry fire them.Talk about a limb decal zombie.....Grizz


Well maybe he saw this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uobdhZ28U4

And meant if you accidently DID dry fire it then it would be ok...…...still not a great idea but not Zombie like.


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## Arrow1967 (May 21, 2019)

Ttt


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## 45er (Jan 18, 2009)

I just wish there was some way to really understand the financials of a company. I'd like to see the *net profit margin* of Obsession, Elite, Prime and XPedition bow companies to gauge their long term viability. Good luck getting an answer though!


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## archer8030 (Jul 24, 2006)

Kitchenfamily06 said:


> I believe the Elite is the best company out there today. They are out selling everyone because of there customer service and the price/quality of their product. In my opinion I think every other company out there is worried because of what elite is bringing to the table with there bows.





78Staff said:


> That's interesting, b/c you can't give away an Elite in my area. Just depends on the region (and the shop I suppose) as to what's popular. Here it's the big 3 Mathews Hoyt Bowtech in that order, then there is another shop that really pushes Prime (possibly b/c they can't carry Mathews or Hoyt due to dealer protected territory - not sure how Bowtech works but they don't carry them either). Elite is non-existent, and now that they've gone to Internet sales I doubt any of our shops will bother with them. Not saying they are bad or good, just that they are not popular in my area.


Same here. Any time a shop runs a "clearance sale" around here, the majority of the bows on sale are going to be Elite. Not even what I'd consider relevant in the archery market around here.


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

If I sold as many rx3's as I have Ravin R-20's it would be a banner year. It's not the cost it's the product. Over the last 24 months I've sold 15 Rx1, 12 rx3, 27r15/R-20 and 83 r9/r10. My point being if the product is great it sells.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

vito9999 said:


> If I sold as many rx3's as I have Ravin R-20's it would be a banner year. It's not the cost it's the product. Over the last 24 months I've sold 15 Rx1, 12 rx3, 27r15/R-20 and 83 r9/r10. My point being if the product is great it sells.


different weapons.... hard to compare xbow sales to compound sales with any relevance.... those numbers don't mean anything, crossbow clientele is different than bow clientele.... all that shows is the growing popularity of xbows, they weren't considering Hoyt when they walked in, they were there to buy an xbow


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Kitchenfamily06 said:


> I believe the Elite is the best company out there today. They are out selling everyone because of there customer service and the price/quality of their product. In my opinion I think every other company out there is worried because of what elite is bringing to the table with there bows.


exactly! hahahaha.... it's all marketing though, and they have that down... like releasing a new bow without telling anyone they released a new bow!!! playin' hard to get with customers, and threw everyone for a loop with a shorter version of what they had.... nobody can keep up with that type of innovation....

maybe they didn't announce their new bow out of charity, so the other companies had a chance this year to sell a couple themselves:wink:


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

deadquiet said:


> Well maybe he saw this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uobdhZ28U4
> 
> And meant if you accidently DID dry fire it then it would be ok...…...still not a great idea but not Zombie like.


no,not even close to what he meant and yes,he is a zombie Hoyt decal fan girl as I have dealt with him off and on for over a decade.It was bred from his loyal devotion to another shop who preaches Hoyt no matter what.....no matter what....preach on....preach on....the cult is waiting for more....


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## Fishmo (Feb 19, 2019)

interesting


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## Fishmo (Feb 19, 2019)

makes you sigh


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## Fishmo (Feb 19, 2019)

the laziness of americans strikes again in a once booming industry


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

deadquiet said:


> Well maybe he saw this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uobdhZ28U4
> 
> And meant if you accidently DID dry fire it then it would be ok...…...still not a great idea but not Zombie like.


I’m i the only one that sees that riser flex on the draw in the video or is it an illusion cause of the terrible nock travel the defiants have?[emoji848]


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

vito9999 said:


> If I sold as many rx3's as I have Ravin R-20's it would be a banner year. It's not the cost it's the product. Over the last 24 months I've sold 15 Rx1, 12 rx3, 27r15/R-20 and 83 r9/r10. My point being if the product is great it sells.


I was in a shop last week and nobody was looking at the bow rack but you would’ve had to fight someone to get close enough to touch a crossbow[emoji2961]


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## ZephrusPrime (Dec 2, 2012)

Hoyt is doing well however they have turned their back on entry level recurve bows. They no longer offer anything like their Horizon/Excel line. With their Trad side you now can only get the Satori (which is awesome). I have shot Olympic for over 35 years and it's disappointing now that their entire recurve line up is only 4 bows total including Trad. On the Olympic side their new X with Velos are at the podium at nearly every event.


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## Dreamer (Aug 19, 2004)

deadturkey said:


> They are all in trouble due to crossbows.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


There is a lot of truth there. Bow manufacturers sell far more hunting bows than target bows, and falling hunter numbers coupled with hunters switching to crossbows is squeezing all the vertical bow makers


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## Dodosaur (Mar 18, 2018)

I'd be all for a cheaper bow in the carbon line. Right now the only manufacturer in that running is Bowtech.


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## [email protected] (Aug 28, 2019)

As price continue to go up sales will lag. Why buy new each year when bow you have will still shot perfect scores. Kinda hard to justify $2000 for a new bow.
Alot of really good shooting bows between 1000 to 1500


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Fishmo said:


> the laziness of americans strikes again in a once booming industry


Yes....and with our laziness we still have the largest economy in the world and are the only country where success is only limited by one's self. 

There has never been or is no other place in the world like the U.S.





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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

-bowfreak- said:


> Yes....and with our laziness we still have the largest economy in the world and are the only country where success is only limited by one's self.
> 
> There has never been or is no other place in the world like the U.S.
> 
> ...


He was just trying to get his 20 posts


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

roosiebull said:


> He was just trying to get his 20 posts


Lol. Got it. It still gets old reading about how crappy America is....

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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

-bowfreak- said:


> Lol. Got it. It still gets old reading about how crappy America is....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I thought it was a pretty ironic reply considering what he’s doing :wink:


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## Billie338Rum (Jun 23, 2019)

agreed


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## pasnownut (Oct 17, 2012)

sure hope not. my vector 32 is the best bow i've owned. I've owned several hoyt's and keep coming back because nothing feels better in my hand (although a bud had a pretty sweet strothers that turned my head).


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

ShootnBlind said:


> I spoke with a reputable source Friday inquiring about any new Hoyt releases for the upcoming model year. The only thing I could squeeze out of him was their new bow will be cheaper and specifically in the carbon lineup. I believe they are falling behind others like Mathews and even PSE (which I love) with antiquated tech in the cams, that coupled with riser issues for the sight mount plate and a slew of bad customer service (my own experience as well as what I've read on here and FB). Each year they're creeping up to that 2K mark and I believe its a huge turn off to any returning customers as well as new. Anyone else hear anything holler!! For the record I shoot a RX-1 Turbo and Ultra.


They are most certainly in trouble with regards to retaining their previous position in realm of archery/bow companies. They have absolutely lost their way for now. Started with the Defiant line, and hasn't corrected since.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

MIKEY CUSTOM-G said:


> Hoyt is interesting. I’ve been back to Hoyt since 2013.
> 
> Imho they made several great cams, only to ditch them. RKT and the very best Z5 cam, imho can’t be beat.
> 
> ...


This ^^^


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

spike camp said:


> I’d wager Rex Darlington holds the most archery related patents.


Darlington is single greatest modern archery mind ever. Anyone disputing that only shows their ignorance...


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Darlington is single greatest modern archery mind ever. Anyone disputing that only shows their ignorance...




I see your point. To me Rex is the shrewdest in all of Archery even of all time.

I’m very hesitant to discount the huge mileage Matt McPherson has made in archery. 

He at one time sold out McPherson bows only to come back with legendary success. Remember that solo cam craze ??? Insane. Granted whatever Matt made from his success if Rex was managing the money, it might be worth 20X it is today. Lol. Pete Shepley isn’t one to sneeze at either. It’s a hard call but these 3 are super stars.


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## Motoforcker (Apr 16, 2017)

Wow! Good thing I didnt fall for a Hoyt! I avoided the brand because of the arrogance surrounding the fanboys. "Hoyts the only bow ever" ring a bell. Watch the riser flex, oh wait no it's because its design to increase the speed hoyt is known for!


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

Motoforcker said:


> Wow! Good thing I didnt fall for a Hoyt! I avoided the brand because of the arrogance surrounding the fanboys. "Hoyts the only bow ever" ring a bell. Watch the riser flex, oh wait no it's because its design to increase the speed hoyt is known for!


Well let's not get it twisted. There were decades where Hoyt was far better than everyone else. That just came to an end recently with some very poor leadership, and decision making. I would guess they will be back on top at some point sooner than later.


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## Viking53 (Aug 26, 2019)

all these brand bows have got way too expensive, or maybe they are just to greedy ? i grew up with a long bow and then when the compound came out i started using a compound right away,now people are moving over to x-bows . i don`t know why ? except maybe because they are easier to shoot ?


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Well let's not get it twisted. There were decades where Hoyt was far better than everyone else. That just came to an end recently with some very poor leadership, and decision making. I would guess they will be back on top at some point sooner than later.


More than likely they slip to where they’re at and struggle getting back to number 1.
Mathews will stay there.
Plus there is a few brands that put out a better bow now


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## buschlight6969 (Sep 26, 2018)

It's what happens when you charge people $2k for a bow and don't release meaningful innovations.


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## tibbes (Feb 12, 2013)

Gary66 said:


> First off.. 1,500 dry fires 1 million cycles.. anyone else boasting that?


Jeez, wake up. It is nothing more than a trick from Hoyt`s magic box. They make good money with believers just like you


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

tibbes said:


> Jeez, wake up. It is nothing more than a trick from Hoyt`s magic box. They make good money with believers just like you


For sure !


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## Motoforcker (Apr 16, 2017)

Lol that video covers the riser strength not cams! I'll bet those cams will flop like pancakes on 70+lbs.


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## schwifty97 (Jun 5, 2019)

Seems like hoyt still sells well and i see them advertise quite a bit still, i bet they're fine


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## tibbes (Feb 12, 2013)

Motoforcker said:


> Lol that video covers the riser strength not cams! I'll bet those cams will flop like pancakes on 70+lbs.


Yep, surtain cams will not even survive 30 lbs. That`s why it`s all so misleading.


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## RAGIN (Nov 8, 2011)

I think if you want a carbon bow, Hoyt is the way to go. Other than that, I wouldn't bother with them.


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## llahsram11 (Dec 30, 2016)

Ingo said:


> Come to Arizona. You'll see carbon Hoyts abundant anywhere there is a gathering of archers. And you'll see a boatload of PSE and Matthews but almost never Elites and Bowtechs are a very distant third place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree on this here. Here in the western US, where Hoyt is made, carbon bows are pretty common. It is really dependent upon the archery budget, but many eventually work into a carbon bow if they can afford it. Not to say the aluminum riser bows are incapable of shooting well, because they will shoot just as good. If you dig deep enough, the aluminum risers are heavier which transfers to a more quiet shot. But weight in the back country can be a deal breaker for the average bow junkie. The newest and greatest is what is often what is in style.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

well things are about to change...


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## bmook019 (Jan 31, 2017)

This thread is a dumpster fire. People don't realize there is a plateau in compound archery. You can only make a cam so smooth and the bows have a limit to how fast they can be. With these limits manufacturers have to get creative with marketing to sell bows. 

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

bmook019 said:


> This thread is a dumpster fire. People don't realize there is a plateau in compound archery. You can only make a cam so smooth and the bows have a limit to how fast they can be. With these limits manufacturers have to get creative with marketing to sell bows.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


Yup. That plateau was hit about 10 years ago.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

THE ELKMAN said:


> well things are about to change...


Care to elaborate?


----------



## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

There is quite a bit of shake up coming behind the scenes at Hoyt that will be clear in a couple of months. How or if that will manifest itself in the bows and designs I have my doubts.


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

zekezoe said:


> Care to elaborate?


Sales and marketing along with engineering are being overhauled to put it nicely 


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

reinventing themselves?

we'll see what direction they go.... true Hoyt... awesome bows

untrue Hoyt trying to stick with what's popular... 27" ATA mass weight 5lbs... haha. worked for Mathews, all they have to do to outdo them is go a little shorter, and a little heavier.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

They need to have a carbon spyder 34 type bow for 2020. A well balanced,light weight carbon bow with a new cam system.


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## That_TN_Guy (Oct 23, 2017)

They need to ditch O-Tech. 
I’m not buying another Hoyt Carbon riser until they do.


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## Roamingeast (Aug 4, 2014)

pricing themselves into oblivion. A hunter wont mind dropping 1600 bucks in a rifle or shotgun because its an invested cost. That firearm will last them a lifetime and retains value pretty well. Bows only hold value in the mind of the guy trying to sell it, tend to get replaced ever several years. You cant price them like a semi luxury firearm because the benefits dont allow for that kind of margin.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

zekezoe said:


> Care to elaborate?


Bowtech's new tech is going to change the way we evaluate bows.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

roosiebull said:


> reinventing themselves?
> 
> we'll see what direction they go.... true Hoyt... awesome bows
> 
> untrue Hoyt trying to stick with what's popular... 27" ATA mass weight 5lbs... haha. worked for Mathews, all they have to do to outdo them is go a little shorter, and a little heavier.



Exactly


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Bowtech's new tech is going to change the way we evaluate bows.


This year or are you talking a few years down the line?


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## "Own More Bone" (Oct 18, 2002)

PostalRandy23 said:


> This year or are you talking a few years down the line?


I think it's already here with Bowtech's Deadlock cam system

https://bowtecharchery.com/bows/reckoning/


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

"Own More Bone" said:


> I think it's already here with Bowtech's Deadlock cam system
> 
> https://bowtecharchery.com/bows/reckoning/


That's the point I was going to make lol


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## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Bowtech's new tech is going to change the way we evaluate bows.


Don't get me wrong, I like Bowtechs but the limb problems are still not fixed. They should find a solution for old problems before re-inventing the wheel.


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## Sea N Double (Aug 20, 2014)

Larry brown said:


> They are in as much trouble as everyone else, sometimes they realize hey we made a mistake and lower prices or some years certain bows just don’t sell as well. You have to look at it over a period not just one year. They don’t market quite as much as Mathews, which has the most in marketing of any brand, but they aren’t in trouble in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree. So much competition for the next best thing on the market. I replace my bow every 5-8 years. Get a good one and learn to shoot it well. I'm still enjoying my Diamond Iceman going on 9 years now.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

horsehands said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like Bowtechs but the limb problems are still not fixed. They should find a solution for old problems before re-inventing the wheel.


Dude, read a little. That $h!ts long gone...


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## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Dude, read a little. That $h!ts long gone...


You might need to broaden your social media horizons. There are still a lot of limbs failing.
AT does not encompass the entire archery world.


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## BeastofEast (Sep 19, 2011)

That's why half the bows say now with updated "in house" limbs, they will prob explode to.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Another week has gone by and still didn’t see Hoyt or any of the big 3 go BK. 

Might just be rumors ? Lol 


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## Goathollerbucks (Aug 29, 2011)

THE ELKMAN said:


> well things are about to change...


I would like to hear more about this


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## Pullmyfinger (Sep 1, 2019)

NYyotekiller said:


> They probably are hurting somewhat as of recent because they have to be selling less bows with how much they cost. The average guy just simply can't afford a $1600 bow when you can buy a much less expensive bow that shoots very well.
> 
> With that being said; I believe that this past years offerings (RX-3, Helix) are two of the best bows that Hoyt has offered. 2020 will be a great year for Hoyt I believe.


I agree. I'm sure they probably have their finger on the pulse of consumer spending trends, and will likely shore up their product line.
I'm hoping to see more bows in the $900 price range.


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## Motoforcker (Apr 16, 2017)

How would Hoyt go BK with so many brain washed committed old guys with money.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Motoforcker said:


> How would Hoyt go BK with so many brain washed committed old guys with money.


EZ !!! I resemble that remark !! I'll just go get a Mathews or PSE if they did. Whats the big deal ??? It's only a bow ? Life goes on,,,,even for us old men. .....for as long as God says so anyway.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

horsehands said:


> You might need to broaden your social media horizons. There are still a lot of limbs failing.
> AT does not encompass the entire archery world.


Nope. Bowtech now has lower failure rate than Hoyt does...:mg:


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## bmook019 (Jan 31, 2017)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Nope. Bowtech now has lower failure rate than Hoyt does...:mg:


Based on absolutely no actual numbers. 

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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Nope. Bowtech now has lower failure rate than Hoyt does...:mg:


Lol
Keep drinking natty light 



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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Nope. Bowtech now has lower failure rate than Hoyt does...:mg:


I have no way of knowing for sure but I sure wouldn’t be surprised if you took the last 2 years of Bowtech limb failures and Hoyts and this wasn’t 100% correct.


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## JoeyMcEvoy (Aug 24, 2018)

if Hoyts in trouble so is the whole industry


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

I’ll say this. 
I personally know of no one that has went to Hoyt from another brand since the defiant. I know of a bunch that have left Hoyt for another. 
And I know multiple dealers that are very dissatisfied with Hoyt and express them opinions in private. 
So yes I believe Hoyt is in “trouble”



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## Josh_Putman (Jun 18, 2004)

I'm still shooting a 2006 Ultratec with Spirals. 

I see zero need for a newer bow.

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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

rmscustom said:


> I’ll say this.
> I personally know of no one that has went to Hoyt from another brand since the defiant. I know of a bunch that have left Hoyt for another.
> And I know multiple dealers that are very dissatisfied with Hoyt and express them opinions in private.
> So yes I believe Hoyt is in “trouble”
> ...


I'd say it is time they just close the doors. There is no coming back from this. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

-bowfreak- said:


> I'd say it is time they just close the doors. There is no coming back from this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


No beating Mathews 


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

MI1 said:


> No beating Mathews
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hahaha. 
3rd at best if you’re not brand blind with Hoyt being close to being lapped by them. 
And I’m like 40miles away from where Mathews is made. 


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

rmscustom said:


> Hahaha.
> 3rd at best if you’re not brand blind with Hoyt being close to being lapped by them.
> And I’m like 40miles away from where Mathews is made.
> 
> ...


How is Mathews 3rd?

Who’s 1 & 2?


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

MI1 said:


> How is Mathews 3rd?
> 
> Who’s 1 & 2?
> 
> ...


Out of the big 4? PSE or Bowtech. Serious toss up between them two. Currently I have all PSEs but honestly I’d be 100% satisfied with Bowtech. 

Not saying Hoyt or Mathews is junk cause they all shoot but if I’m forced to pick one it’s not gonna be them and it’s not even close. 


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

MI1 said:


> Lol
> Keep drinking natty light
> 
> 
> ...


Miller...


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Miller...


I would’ve guessed Keith Stone[emoji848]


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Miller...





rmscustom said:


> I would’ve guessed Keith Stone[emoji848]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ralph, then barf!

Gimme a tangy 8% IPA, now you’re talking!


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Miller...


Lol
Love it

I discovered PBR 
My favorite beer now !


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

MI1 said:


> Lol
> Love it
> 
> I discovered PBR
> ...


I love PBR! Long before the hipsters thought it was cool. Haha


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

rmscustom said:


> I love PBR! Long before the hipsters thought it was cool. Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I always wondered why my dad drank it....
Effing great beer

It’s my Gatorade of beer!


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## PostalRandy23 (Sep 23, 2017)

PBR is for people who have no culture. Same goes for Budweiser, Heineken and Michelob. Get a double IPa or a polish beer. Heck drink Guinness before resorting to pee water. If you are going to drink PBR might as well just drink steel reserve or old English (AKA old gold)


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

PostalRandy23 said:


> PBR is for people who have no culture. Same goes for Budweiser, Heineken and Michelob. Get a double IPa or a polish beer. Heck drink Guinness before resorting to pee water. If you are going to drink PBR might as well just drink steel reserve or old English (AKA old gold)


I must be EXTREMELY “Un-cultured” then because my drink of choice is Coors light and Cpt&Coke. 
(Unless I am in Ireland then it is the America Blond or Hop House 13, that stuff is Amazing).
Not sure how I ever managed to get by.

IPA’s are undrinkable to me. If I wanted fruity, hints of citrus in a beer I would drink a blue moon with an orange.


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## Cuervo Jones (Aug 8, 2018)

I shoot a Bear and drink Coors. There. I said it. 


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## hock3y24 (Apr 5, 2014)

I don't even touch Hoyt in the shop anymore. Used to be all i shoot, there prices are ridiculous.


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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

Apparently this girl still likes em.


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## pasnownut (Oct 17, 2012)

Cuervo Jones said:


> I shoot a Bear and drink Coors. There. I said it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


now thats funny right there. we wont be too hard on ya. actually i dont care what you drink or shoot. with beer....its wide open for interpretation. other than IPA, i can drink alot of them


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

4IDARCHER said:


> I must be EXTREMELY “Un-cultured” then because my drink of choice is Coors light and Cpt&Coke.
> (Unless I am in Ireland then it is the America Blond or Hop House 13, that stuff is Amazing).
> Not sure how I ever managed to get by.
> 
> IPA’s are undrinkable to me. If I wanted fruity, hints of citrus in a beer I would drink a blue moon with an orange.


=========================


I must be EXTREMELY “Un-cultured” [ No I am. Because my drink of choice is Douls NA :laugh: [ Later


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## Davidhes (May 25, 2018)

Most of the guys I know that actually kill big whitetail shoot a Hoyt.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

rmscustom said:


> I’ll say this.
> I personally know of no one that has went to Hoyt from another brand since the defiant. I know of a bunch that have left Hoyt for another.
> And I know multiple dealers that are very dissatisfied with Hoyt and express them opinions in private.
> So yes I believe Hoyt is in “trouble”
> ...


I did... went from a triax to an rx-1.... only bad part was buying the triax:wink: and being stuck with that unbalanced heavy sucker all elk season...the hoyt would have been a way better bow for me, from balance to draw cycle, to weight....etc


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## 78Staff (Dec 31, 2002)

rmscustom said:


> I’ll say this.
> I personally know of no one that has went to Hoyt from another brand since the defiant. I know of a bunch that have left Hoyt for another.
> And I know multiple dealers that are very dissatisfied with Hoyt and express them opinions in private.
> So yes I believe Hoyt is in “trouble”
> ...



I went from a Halon to a RX-3... Of course I had been shooting Hoyt for 25+ years before switching to the Halon. I switched b/c I wasn't enamored with the DFX 2.0 cam issues and then the RX-1 wasn't blowing my socks off. Shot the Halon for about a year then came back to the RX-3 .

That being said, I do get why so many are piling on Hoyt these days. They just can't seem to get out of there own way... Sight plate issue, Pete, etc...


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

I live in Kalamazoo Michigan,
Look up Bells Brewery *******!

In fact why don't you look up the amount of specialized beer companies in the state of Michigan and how much influence of these special beers have had throughout the country.
So don't come on here and spout off. Trust me we in Kalamazoo know very much about the beer industry since the early 80's!.....way way before it was a trendy drink.


PostalRandy23 said:


> PBR is for people who have no culture. Same goes for Budweiser, Heineken and Michelob. Get a double IPa or a polish beer. Heck drink Guinness before resorting to pee water. If you are going to drink PBR might as well just drink steel reserve or old English (AKA old gold)


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## sublauxation (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm sure it's been said somewhere in these 12 pages but with so many people saying archery has hit a wall as far as improvements and technology........how could they possibly think Hoyt was falling behind the others:darkbeer:


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

sublauxation said:


> I'm sure it's been said somewhere in these 12 pages but with so many people saying archery has hit a wall as far as improvements and technology........how could they possibly think Hoyt was falling behind the others:darkbeer:


I don’t think they fell that behind. One good model and marketed well launch and poof they’re back.


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## Don Schultz (Jul 5, 2002)

Got Em said:


> ...almost every manufacturer can offer a smooth, fast, quiet, tack driver. And no big advances have happened in a few years.


I agree. Some of the startups have hit the market with performance levels right up with the big boys. I remember PSE publicly promoting their production capacity for the private label (IE Cabelas/Bass Pro, just a few years ago. I've been shooting Darton since 1998 and don't intend to change, but PSE's carbon bows are tempting. 

I had an original Diamond carbon riser bow at a time when I shot one bow for everything. The post shot vibration of that bow made it no fun to shoot lots of arrows. I wish now I'd done something else for off season competition, and shot the Diamond just enough to hunt well, because the light weight made it so easy to get the bow balanced perfectly without excessive carry weight.

BTW Hoyt's big splash in cam tech, the "Cam and a half" was licensed from Darton. Darton has an apparently solid line of crossbows, and Mathews does crossbows using their Mission brand, maintaining an appearance of purity for the Mathews brand. So Hoyt's finding it difficult to stand out in front of the market. Kinda like what happened to the Cadillac brand when Lexus, Acura, Infinity first got traction in the car market.


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Just checking in to see if Hoyt made it through the night?

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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

MI1 said:


> Lol
> Love it
> 
> I discovered PBR
> ...


My actual favorite beer is Deschutes Fresh Squeezed and Lewis and Clark Prickly Pear Pale ale....


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

rmscustom said:


> I love PBR! Long before the hipsters thought it was cool. Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



PBR is a long standing favorite in our place as well


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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

Love it !


THE ELKMAN said:


> PBR is a long standing favorite in our place as well


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

Coors original is another under rated pull


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

"Buck Skins" as we call it...


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Wow. Had a helix ultra #2 in my hands this morning working through some tuning issues for the owner. 
Reminds me of the defiant 2.0 cam tune and holy f was this bow SLOW. Calculated 323-325 ibo with a 460gr arrow at 28.5”. 
Remember when a #2cam Hoyt was 8-10fps faster than their rating? Haha


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

rmscustom said:


> Wow. Had a helix ultra #2 in my hands this morning working through some tuning issues for the owner.
> Reminds me of the defiant 2.0 cam tune and holy f was this bow SLOW. Calculated 323-325 ibo with a 460gr arrow at 28.5”.
> Remember when a #2cam Hoyt was 8-10fps faster than their rating? Haha
> 
> ...


Yeah i agree. It is disappointing where we've ended up.


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## RyanLightle (Nov 4, 2014)

I would assume they realize people disliked the price raise in the RedWrx series compared to their standard carbon bows.


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## Sagitto (Jul 27, 2010)

Agreed. Saw the thread headline and scratched my head. They serve diverse parts of the archery world.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

RyanLightle said:


> I would assume they realize people disliked the price raise in the RedWrx series compared to their standard carbon bows.


wasn't the carbon matrix like 1600 bucks several years ago when it came out?

with inflation rates, they should be 2k


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Can someone in the SLC area take a drive by Hoyt today to see if the front door is chained shut?


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

It will be VERY interesting to see what they drop in 5 weeks.... My guess is they haven't learned YET.


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## pherrley (Jan 24, 2015)

Google interest


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## bamabred (Aug 26, 2019)

pherrley said:


> View attachment 6924787
> 
> 
> Google interest


Hmmm, what's wrong with Bowtech? I think this is biased by name recognition. Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE are the most recognized.


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## Had a Hoyt (Nov 28, 2006)

THE ELKMAN said:


> It will be VERY interesting to see what they drop in 5 weeks.... My guess is they haven't learned YET.


I agree. I really don't think they beleive there is a problem.


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## crazy eye (Sep 13, 2017)

These threads crack me up. Hoyt and Mathews are the powers that be in the archery world. Solid products, great marketing, and solid factory shooters. Win on Sunday and sell on Monday applies here. I just switched from Mathews from the last 15 years to Elite. Every time I look at tournament results and its a podium full of Mathews or Hoyt shooters. It can make you feel like you are using inferior equipment. That being said, all of the manufactures put out pretty nice equipment. you just need to shoot what works best for you and forget the name that's on it. Unfortunately archery isn't the sport it once was. Kids today, don't show interest in it like they used to. I can remember when I was 12 years old going to archery shoots with my father that there would be cars lined up down the road and a 150+ shooters on a local course. I shot a local 3D tournament this Sunday and there was only like 25 shooters. Archery in general is on the decline and it affects all companies. Unfortunately, I feel like archery companies are pricing them selves out of the sport. Technology is great but comes at a cost. If your customers cant afford it, they move on to other things. Flagship bows @ $1000+, a good sight @ $200 - $300+, rest @ $100 - $200, and arrows ect... Its not unusual to drop $1500 - $2000 on a good set up. These prices are exceeding some pretty good firearms! And we all know how the resale values are. Archery at a whole is at a cross roads and it is up to use to promote and get younger archers into the sport. Companies also have a responsibility to promote the sport and keep it affordable for the average family to participate.


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## RyanLightle (Nov 4, 2014)

roosiebull said:


> wasn't the carbon matrix like 1600 bucks several years ago when it came out?
> 
> with inflation rates, they should be 2k


Yes, but the defiant was 1299 and the spyder 1399 then it went up to 1700 for RX1

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## MI1 (Apr 10, 2013)

I highly doubt Hoyt is financially in trouble

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## NebraskaArcher (Jan 3, 2015)

More Chinesse imports are coming in that are built as well as Hoyt and Win & Win.


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## jobow1981 (Jul 21, 2017)

not shocked. These new bows are so high anyways bare bow. 2k will get you one rigged out.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

RyanLightle said:


> Yes, but the defiant was 1299 and the spyder 1399 then it went up to 1700 for RX1
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using http://bit.ly/Archery_Talk_app


see, they went down in price....:wink: I think they knew the defiant was not 1600 dollar bow like the rx-1 (never saw them higher than 1600 retail) the cool thing is, they offer aluminum bows at the same price as everyone else's flagship price.... nobody is trying to force anyone to buy a carbon Hoyt... or Hoyt at all for that matter.

to me, Hoyt has always represented the best of the best, toughest bows on the market.... Mathews has always been the trendy bow (just how I have seen it in the past, not saying that's how it is) and their carbon bows have been even more so...

they, like every other company had a few years of "eh" bows, and some problems.... like EVERY SINGLE company has, that's not exclusive to Hoyt. I think the RX-1 was an awesome bow, I had one for a short bit before I got rid of everything compound related, and it was an amazing bow.... just about perfect for my taste in every aspect, but the jump in price from the defiants caused lots of hate... not sure why, because if it's not worth the cost to you.... don't buy it... pretty simple. to me, it was a perfectly refined hunting bow... not too heavy, awesome draw cycle, didn't need any stabilizers, held well, perfect natural balance, fast enough, and when rigged, and shooting heavy arrows, it was super quiet, and had a tiny bit of feedback (totally fine by any standards) which does not effect anything.

shooting it side by side with the triax, it wasn't loud, and it didn't have much hand shock, though those were common complaints... super eye pleasing bow too for a compound. I didn't initially shoot it when I was bow shopping due to the price... I figured i'd like it and didn't want to spend that much, but in hindsight, I wish I had, because I ended up with a triax and that bow sucked for the hunting I do, and after elk season I shot as many bows as I could, and the only one with a "wow" factor was the rx-1, so that's where I ended up not knowing I was gonna ditch compounds shortly after.

no bow is for everybody, but expensive carbon hoyts still have a niche and will continue to. I have not shot the rx-3... I planned to, but doubted I would trade my rx-1 for one... due to the ATA alone, when they first came out (before buying a 1500 dollar recurve) I was really hoping for an rx-3 ultra turbo, that may have had me buying one, had I been in the market for a compound... I think an ultra turbo would be a good seller if their flagship is under 32" ata, but they know what sells way better than I do.

Hoyt is far from in trouble, they are monsters in the industry and will remain that way. look at how bad Bowtech dropped the ball for a few years with their limb issues.... and now look at them, right back as popular as ever.... Hoyt hasn't come close to messing up that bad, and they are way bigger, and have been for way longer.

Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE would have to have several really bad years in a row to get in trouble. I think the only major player who could get in trouble is elite, but even with their coule bad years, and their secret release on their last bow, they are doing ok. still piles of people buying new flagships every single year regardless of lack of real innovation


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## WifeHatesMe (Feb 26, 2018)

I haven't read 13 pages of this stuff and I honestly know nothing about Hoyt's company, but I did find it pretty entertaining that during Dudley's podcast with Rogan when they were axis deer hunting in Hawaii, that Dudley said he was hunting with the Helix rather than the RX-3. I don't really follow the various archers or who is the top dog at each of the manufacturers, but I would imagine with Dudley's archery following he has to be one of the bigger Hoyt Pro Staff names. Rather than mentioning their highest flagship bow, he says he is hunting with one that is $500 less.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

WifeHatesMe said:


> I haven't read 13 pages of this stuff and I honestly know nothing about Hoyt's company, but I did find it pretty entertaining that during Dudley's podcast with Rogan when they were axis deer hunting in Hawaii, that Dudley said he was hunting with the Helix rather than the RX-3. I don't really follow the various archers or who is the top dog at each of the manufacturers, but I would imagine with Dudley's archery following he has to be one of the bigger Hoyt Pro Staff names. Rather than mentioning their highest flagship bow, he says he is hunting with one that is $500 less.


Weird right? Ask Hoyt to build you a 90lb bow and find out they will not do it on a carbon riser. Wonder why??? Weird right? 
Helix is decent. Their carbon riser is junk. 


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2AYu3fASzk/?hl=en

It’s crazy, it’s like he shoots more than one bow.


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## LostnWoods1 (Apr 21, 2019)

No way ever period! If anything can't wait until they. I'm out with an xbow. Hopefully when they do I'll be ready and can't pull back a compound and ready. Easy transition for me.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

WifeHatesMe said:


> I haven't read 13 pages of this stuff and I honestly know nothing about Hoyt's company, but I did find it pretty entertaining that during Dudley's podcast with Rogan when they were axis deer hunting in Hawaii, that Dudley said he was hunting with the Helix rather than the RX-3. I don't really follow the various archers or who is the top dog at each of the manufacturers, but I would imagine with Dudley's archery following he has to be one of the bigger Hoyt Pro Staff names. Rather than mentioning their highest flagship bow, he says he is hunting with one that is $500 less.



I would assume that he used a Helix so that folks would see that Hoyt’s economy bow is suitable for everyone, including himself.
Maybe a way to soften all the gripes about how expensive the carbons are now.


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## 78Staff (Dec 31, 2002)

spike camp said:


> I would assume that he used a Helix so that folks would see that Hoyt’s economy bow is suitable for everyone, including himself.
> Maybe a way to soften all the gripes about how expensive the carbons are now.


Pretty much... for the past few years Hoyt Sponsored folks mostly host the Carbons which was counter intuitive marketing. Yeah it got the word out about the flagship carbons, but the price is too much for many to bear, especially when all the other companies alum riser flagship bows were $m-500 less. Someone at Hoyt finally figured out this was hurting them in sales so they moved to really pushing the sponsored folks to use the aluminum riser models more. Thus More word on the street/social media/tv shows etc with Hoyt aluminum increased Hoyt's sales in 2019 I suspect - been a really big year for them at my local shop, which is a large Hoyt/Mathews/Bowtech shop.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

crazy eye said:


> These threads crack me up. Hoyt and Mathews are the powers that be in the archery world. Solid products, great marketing, and solid factory shooters. Win on Sunday and sell on Monday applies here. I just switched from Mathews from the last 15 years to Elite. Every time I look at tournament results and its a podium full of Mathews or Hoyt shooters. It can make you feel like you are using inferior equipment. That being said, all of the manufactures put out pretty nice equipment. you just need to shoot what works best for you and forget the name that's on it. Unfortunately archery isn't the sport it once was. Kids today, don't show interest in it like they used to. I can remember when I was 12 years old going to archery shoots with my father that there would be cars lined up down the road and a 150+ shooters on a local course. I shot a local 3D tournament this Sunday and there was only like 25 shooters. Archery in general is on the decline and it affects all companies. Unfortunately, I feel like archery companies are pricing them selves out of the sport. Technology is great but comes at a cost. If your customers cant afford it, they move on to other things. Flagship bows @ $1000+, a good sight @ $200 - $300+, rest @ $100 - $200, and arrows ect... Its not unusual to drop $1500 - $2000 on a good set up. These prices are exceeding some pretty good firearms! And we all know how the resale values are. Archery at a whole is at a cross roads and it is up to use to promote and get younger archers into the sport. Companies also have a responsibility to promote the sport and keep it affordable for the average family to participate.


you take money out of the equation and I bet the podium would look entirely different


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## Centerpoint (Sep 27, 2018)

You got that right. Mathews target rig msrp @$1800. So why the hate on Hoyt being $1800? I’ve shot all of them and just like above I went to Elite. I get more speed, easier to tune , lighter rig, because of the way they balance and hold on the x as good as any bow and better than most , and has a smoother draw than any of the top 5 bows out. Plus I get all that for $800. When Matthew looses the bulk of their shooters and they fan out to other companies, the Podium will be bare again of them . If the top shooters from Hoyt, Matthews and PSE shot a Bear bow you’d see a ton of them on the podium. All the major brands are pricey and none are any better than they were $500 ago. We pay and they go up. We pay and they go up. Why not charge $1800 for a $1200 bow will folks are gonna whine , but still pay? As far as customer service, Elite as better CS than any of them ,, a transferable warranty, and it works well. Bought a Elite from here and sent it in to them and they changed limbs for me New set , no questions asked. Hoyt and Matthews wouldn’t have even touched it had you not have proof you were that original owner. And then still try and weasel out of doing anything under warranty. I’m not paying $12-$1400 for a damn hunting rig to drag threw the woods and shoot a deer inside of 30 yards either, from any company. Guys kill me with $2500 in a hunting bow and pick a tree in the wide open because they don’t want to pull their bow up and get a scratch on it. Save that crap for indoor or the range .


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

spike camp said:


> I would assume that he used a Helix so that folks would see that Hoyt’s economy bow is suitable for everyone, including himself.
> Maybe a way to soften all the gripes about how expensive the carbons are now.


$1100 economy bow... anybody else find that funny? Haha


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## encodedmocha (Jul 19, 2019)

Ya Hoyt is in trouble


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## LostBowHunter (Sep 25, 2019)

that would be nice


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## Atakid (Jun 12, 2019)

I wonder what percentage of bows they sell are Carbon. I personally wouldn't ever buy anything but an aluminum riser from Hoyt.


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## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

WifeHatesMe said:


> I haven't read 13 pages of this stuff and I honestly know nothing about Hoyt's company, but I did find it pretty entertaining that during Dudley's podcast with Rogan when they were axis deer hunting in Hawaii, that Dudley said he was hunting with the Helix rather than the RX-3. I don't really follow the various archers or who is the top dog at each of the manufacturers, but I would imagine with Dudley's archery following he has to be one of the bigger Hoyt Pro Staff names. Rather than mentioning their highest flagship bow, he says he is hunting with one that is $500 less.


Was he wearing his "Hecs Suit" too? 
Its all marketing smoke and mirrors.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

rmscustom said:


> $1100 economy bow... anybody else find that funny? Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That is funny!
I misspoke, though...I was thinking of the Nitrux.


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## BMK123 (Jan 4, 2019)

Would there be more people that bought a carbon bow compared to an aluminum bow if they were the same price?


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

BMK123 said:


> Would there be more people that bought a carbon bow compared to an aluminum bow if they were the same price?


of course, carbon is the source of all of the "Hoyt hate" nobody complains about their aluminum bows, they whine about the carbon bows like someone is forcing them to buy one. hoyt haters act like hoyt doesn't build aluminum riser bows for the same price as the rest of the aluminum bows.

i'm sure much of that is because Hoyt's marketing seems to push the carbon bows more, but from a business standpoint, I can't blame them. some people are waiting for the 2020 Hoyt carbon is released, wondering if it's gonna be their best yet, but more are waiting for the reveal to talk crap about them because they have some weird loyalty to another company that doesn't give a rat's *** about them, haha.

people should go shoot every bow they have access to if in the market, and pick their favorite based on that rather than trashing the other big bow companies without ever shooting or considering..... like a grown-up would:wink:

it's funny people bashing hoyt for how heavy their carbon bows are, while touting their actually heavy short bow.... obviously it doesn't matter to them, so what's the point? they will always find something regardless of how good a bow is. if it's not built by the company they have a crush on, they can tell it sucks without ever having it in hand, and they watch a youtube video on it and they are instantly an authority on said bow....haha


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## BMK123 (Jan 4, 2019)

roosiebull said:


> of course, carbon is the source of all of the "Hoyt hate" nobody complains about their aluminum bows, they whine about the carbon bows like someone is forcing them to buy one. hoyt haters act like hoyt doesn't build aluminum riser bows for the same price as the rest of the aluminum bows.
> 
> i'm sure much of that is because Hoyt's marketing seems to push the carbon bows more, but from a business standpoint, I can't blame them. some people are waiting for the 2020 Hoyt carbon is released, wondering if it's gonna be their best yet, but more are waiting for the reveal to talk crap about them because they have some weird loyalty to another company that doesn't give a rat's *** about them, haha.
> 
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head. There's like a tribe mentality when it comes to each manufacturer; I just look at some of the threads like this and scratch my head.


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

Atakid said:


> I wonder what percentage of bows they sell are Carbon. I personally wouldn't ever buy anything but an aluminum riser from Hoyt.




And guess what ? I’m all in on the Carbon Hoyt’s.

Not a fan of their weight in the New series but I prefer them.


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## jinglesld50 (Oct 8, 2015)

Hopefully, we have finally hit the price ceiling with new bows and they will start falling with every manufacturer. $1,100 - $1,500 for a bow is just plain insane especially when after the first year, that bows value drops by $3-$400. Whether you have the money or not, a brand new bow just seems like a bad investment to me. I've looked at the affordable big box store options, to me, there is a noticeable quality and feel difference between those bows and the top name manufacturers bows. I'm not someone who throws money around necessarily, but I am compleltey willing to pay a reasonable amount more for quality. At the markets current price structure, I'm stuck in the used name brand market 5-10 year old bows and probably will be for the foreseeable future. I would love for things to change.


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## bmook019 (Jan 31, 2017)

Bows probably arent getting cheaper unless they start getting parts and peices from china. Made in America costs a lot of money and the warranty department of any bow company is a money pit. One of the only industries where the manufacturer will fix a customers stupidity and mistakes. You can dry fire the bow and it's still covered for the original owner.

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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

jinglesld50 said:


> Hopefully, we have finally hit the price ceiling with new bows and they will start falling with every manufacturer. $1,100 - $1,500 for a bow is just plain insane especially when after the first year, that bows value drops by $3-$400. Whether you have the money or not, a brand new bow just seems like a bad investment to me. I've looked at the affordable big box store options, to me, there is a noticeable quality and feel difference between those bows and the top name manufacturers bows. I'm not someone who throws money around necessarily, but I am compleltey willing to pay a reasonable amount more for quality. At the markets current price structure, I'm stuck in the used name brand market 5-10 year old bows and probably will be for the foreseeable future. I would love for things to change.


you are right... it's not terrible if you already have good accessories you like, and you buy a bow you like and plan on keeping a few years... but it's a horrible investment for those who buy new every year (sometimes a few) we're all big boys though, and if you like new bows and can afford it, by all means, enjoy some new bows. I am more the type who does better if I stick with one bow.... and they are all way good enough to keep a few years.

the bright side is, we all can buy a bow barely shot, 6 months old for 750 bucks that was 1000 or 1100 a few arrows ago, and often they have new strings and a rest, the used market is great.

you can also get a really nice 2yr old bow for 400 bucks, again, likely with a rest mounted.... you can shoot that bow, and if you don't like it, get your money back or more if you shopped around.... lots of ways to look at it


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

Carbon gets hated on because it is more than what many can afford or are willing to pay. I like carbon and will pay extra to own one. 

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## Mr.Cheezle19 (Aug 11, 2013)

My first bow was a Hoyt because they have/ had some of the best professional hunters using their bows - my brother would be guilty of this as well. My spyder 30 was an amazing shooter as was his Vector 32 but we both switched to Darton after all the carbon hub-bub.


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## 1faith (Dec 8, 2010)

Mr.Cheezle19 said:


> My first bow was a Hoyt because they have/ had some of the best professional hunters using their bows - my brother would be guilty of this as well. My spyder 30 was an amazing shooter as was his Vector 32 but we both switched to Darton after all the carbon hub-bub.


Lol. I must ask if you base your brand of choice by buying what the ''professional hunters'' use, how in the world did you end up shooting a Darton ? Just curious.


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## gillhunter20 (Sep 18, 2017)

Interesting


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## MIKEY CUSTOM-G (Oct 5, 2002)

1faith said:


> Lol. I must ask if you base your brand of choice by buying what the ''professional hunters'' use, how in the world did you end up shooting a Darton ? Just curious.



Not sure how old you are ? Back in the day, Darton had a magnesium machined riser bow called the Lightning. It was one of the break thru bows breaking 300 FPS, along with Oregon ( bowtech) bows. 

Hitting 300 FPS back in the day was comparable to hitting 400 FPS today.

Needless to say ? Yep, everyone wanted a Darton Lightning and all the “names” in archery were shooting one. True story. I lived thru it.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

Non Scientific analysis bought a bow for my father this past winter as a gift the dealer said a few years ago it was about even but now he sells 5 or 6 to 1 other brands over the Hoyts their flagships being overpriced for the average archer and the other aluminum bows they sell he feels are perceived as a lesser bow due to the marketing put toward the 1500 dollar versions when Mathews etc sell their flagship for 950-1000


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## BMK123 (Jan 4, 2019)

conservewild said:


> Non Scientific analysis bought a bow for my father this past winter as a gift the dealer said a few years ago it was about even but now he sells 5 or 6 to 1 other brands over the Hoyts their flagships being overpriced for the average archer and the other aluminum bows they sell he feels are perceived as a lesser bow due to the marketing put toward the 1500 dollar versions when Mathews etc sell their flagship for 950-1000


I think that’s why Hoyt gets so much hate. The carbon bows are not meant for the average archer, and nor should they be. Every industry has price levels for what people are willing to pay, and if people aren’t shooting the most expensive thing they feel inferior, and want to bash it. It’s not an industry problem; it’s a consumer problem.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

BMK123 said:


> I think that’s why Hoyt gets so much hate. The carbon bows are not meant for the average archer, and nor should they be. Every industry has price levels for what people are willing to pay, and if people aren’t shooting the most expensive thing they feel inferior, and want to bash it. It’s not an industry problem; it’s a consumer problem.


I agree and disagree its an industry problem or manufacture problem if you depend on the consumer and they do. Hoyts are just as good as the next bow but if the consumer doesn't believe your top of the line bow is worth the coin and your 2nd tier bow is inferior or percieved inferior so they purchase brand X competitor then its a marketing error or miscalculation on Hoyts part. At the end of the day they are in business to sell bows and the current direction they chose is failing to do that at the level it once did. Not because of Xbows but even their market share of the compounds sold has dropped.


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## Eddie12 (Jan 20, 2008)

Ha Ha No they are not in my opinion...oh wait I just called their customer service and was told today is the last day of manufacturing so get yours while it last. lol Sales might be a little low but come on guys every bow manufacture has probably had a bad year or two. I can almost guarantee you that Hoyt will still be here 20 years from now. It's simple if you can't afford or don't want to spend $1,500 on a new flagship bow then don't cause somebody else will. I haven't bought a new bow in years and don't plan on it anytime soon so I'm not that worried. I kinda like the deals here on AT. Good luck this season and shoot straight.


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## LeviPrater (Sep 27, 2019)

ppkaprince98 said:


> Sounds to me like they are listening to the masses who are saying, "we like your carbon bows, but the are to expensive".


Very true!! why so expensive???


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## Buran (Nov 26, 2018)

-bowfreak- said:


> Carbon gets hated on because it is more than what many can afford or are willing to pay. I like carbon and will pay extra to own one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


 I don't think so. In olympic recurves the price of high end cnc machined aluminum risers and forged hm carbon risers is very much the same, yet still you see archers fiercely supporting ones or anothers. I think that the criticism with carbon comes from the fact that they are ~45% more expensive without performing 45% better (or even being better at all).


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2018)

I doubt they are in trouble. The carbon bows are expensive for sure but they offer less expensive bows and those sell in good numbers I'm sure. They've been around for a long time, they must be doing something right...


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## hoyt fo life555 (Jan 31, 2005)

They are to big to be in trouble yet. It will take several years to catch up with them and hurt them financially. Heck look at bowtech, with all there limb problems and they are still in business.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Buran said:


> I think that the criticism with carbon comes from the fact that they are ~45% more expensive without performing 45% better (or even being better at all).


being better is subjective. I have spent time with several carbon hoyts, and they have all been really nice bows for my taste... the rx-1 was by far my favorite bow of 18'... not just the riser being carbon, but everything.... though not an ultralight bow, it was clearly lighter than any others I shot, with perfect natural balance.... that's kinda been the story on carbon hoyts for me.

the one I didn't care for was the element, and I think it was a grip issue. I still hunted a season with it, it was a dream to pack, and shot well enough, but I had to pay attention shooting it. I think the element is an awesome bow spec wise, and would like to shoot one with a different than stock rubber grip.

it's all subjective on what bows are better than others.... do they shoot faster or smoother? no, do they have a unique feel? yes... if you like that feel, they are potentially "better" some claim they like the warmth of carbon risers, which I cannot speak on, it never gets that cold around here, and i'm usually packing my bow around by the string anyways.

the main thing is, why criticize a bow you have no obligation to buy? they make equally nice aluminum riser bows for the same price as anyone else, I don't understand why people would criticize carbon bows unless they really want one but can't afford one.... why else would it matter?


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## pa.hunter (Jan 3, 2008)

NYyotekiller said:


> They probably are hurting somewhat as of recent because they have to be selling less bows with how much they cost. The average guy just simply can't afford a $1600 bow when you can buy a much less expensive bow that shoots very well.
> 
> With that being said; I believe that this past years offerings (RX-3, Helix) are two of the best bows that Hoyt has offered. 2020 will be a great year for Hoyt I believe.


classifieds i have not bought a new bow in years i cant afford -new- bow------------- prices out of hand on everything


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## Shawn911 (Sep 15, 2019)

I don't know if Hoyt is in trouble financially or not but everytime I've bought a new bow I shot the big 4 (Mathews, Hoyt, Bowtech, and PSE). More than price, advertising, brand, or what my hunting friends say I go off of how the bow feels. I see how it fits my hand, see how the the cams feel when they roll, how solid is the back wall, hand shock after the shot, are the cams jumpy, how silent is the bow, and how well I can group arrows at 8-10 yards off the shelf. Since the mid 90's when I got out of traditional archery and into compounds I have owned 2 PSE's and 2 Bowtech's. All because of my thought process. I don't understand why bow fanatics always have the same arguments. This brand or that brand is better. Every manufacturer has had their fair share of problems. We as archers should embrace one another in this wonderful sport and quit bickering over brands and maybe we can get the younger generation involved to save this dying sport


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## mumu666 (Sep 25, 2019)

HOYT seems to having trouble maintaining their position in recurve world too.


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## aspin_10 (Sep 11, 2017)

As much as I hate that anyone can use crossbows. You are right.


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## Serb (Feb 17, 2018)

I love my Hoyts, but here in Canada buying a flagship bow is a tough sell for most because of our dollar being crap. Those flagship bows are over 2K, plus accessories, a guy can get up to 3K quick. I know a lot of you on here are not Canadians but we feel them same way as far as price, quality and customer service goes. And then on top of that a person would hope the money invested the Customer Service and quality would be top tier in the bows class, which in pervious years it has had its problems.


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