# Regions Archery Swan Song?



## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

I think the only disappointments were turnouts. From people I've talked to its a great shoot. There are just some key things hurting them.


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## elmerspencer123 (Aug 26, 2014)

schmel_me said:


> There are just some key things hurting them.


Yeah, money and low turnouts are "key". I went to two of the shoots last year. The one here in NC and the last one in PA. Just seemed disorganized most of the time. I know it was the first year but come on, the people running this have been shooting these things for years. They need to clean up their act. The award presentation at Warren was so hot and drawn out, the one pro shooter that was asking everybody to support Regions left before it was over. I don't plan on going back until I hear that some drastic changes have taken place. IBO has some problems, but not like this.


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Poor scheduling and placement would be the biggest issue I saw with them. Me and my group of shooters went to the Stillwater shoot and had a great time. The shoot was well run and gave a few guys class options that ASA doesn't.

Then came the problem. After that shoot, every Regions tourney we looked at attending was either back-to back with an ASA tourney (so we had to choose which to attend), or was in an eastern state that was too far to make the trip economically.

Set more tourneys away from the same area as ASA, move to alternating weekends, and don't even try to compete with ASA. They would find their nitch IMO.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.... you've got to have numbers to get numbers. Why do we load up and travel 800+ miles to an ASA?.... because we know everyone else is too. We know about what our class size will be before we go and we know what the potential upside is. This isn't just about attendance either. ASA uses a published and hard set payout schedule... it doesn't change mid year....and ASA checks get mailed out 8 days after every shoot the vast majority of the time. 

I won Stillwater this year. The math didn't work on the "big" check I recieved at the shoot and called them afterwards. The confusion over payouts ran wide and deep and it ultimately took me almost 3 months to get my check. Other payouts at tournaments later on were different percentages. 

The bottom line is, their attendance doesn't justify the cost. When I got out of the truck at Stillwater, I coughed up $190 before I even got my bow out of the truck or paid for gas/food/hotel. Local shoots are drawing better attendance. Why? Because they are cheap. I also told Dick that I thought the investment being poured into the Championship Bowhunter class was wasted money. It is basically asking guys who don't attend tournaments already to show up in numbers and compete for big $...with a big entry fee....and shoot pop-ups...in front of a "crowd"..... or its asking regular shooters from other divisions to jump ship and shoot the CBH class which further dilutes the core class attendance numbers. My suggestion was to take the same $ and put some garaunteed winnings in the big classes (K45, Open B, Hunter) and see what happens.

Attendance will not grow until the potential upside outweighs the cost. How many times this year did a guy "win" a class and get back less than his entry fee? Is it his fault no one else showed up? Attendance is on the ownership and I think the lack of attendance is showing that the customer is not willing to shoulder the risk. 

I do wish them the best and hope they find success but I don't believe it is to be had with their current model.


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## elmerspencer123 (Aug 26, 2014)

Slow getting checks is one of the problems i heard last year. A pro shooter told me she had to ask several times, both through their facebook page and in person about her winning check and had to wait over two months to get it. Like I said, I know it was the first year, but it shouldnt take that long.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I attended two shoots this year and they were pretty well organized. They might have done better if they had concentrated this year on shoots in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin. Once they could get that schedule set they could look at another region that would include Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and north Texas.

Holding their championship in West Monroe, LA, on a Labor Day weekend is, imho, another gaff. Its the last weekend of summer and folks have other activities they'll be wanting to do with family. Next weekend in southern Indiana/southern Illinois might have been a better idea.

Looking forward to shooting some of their events next year.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

They were a huge disappoint plus what happen to to city of warren was a bunch of crap


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I guess I enjoyed the oklahoma regions, I was out the same amount of money as a asa weekend and there were very few shooters. I didn't mind supporting them with my weekend and money but they have got to step back and think about things for next year and make some really good changes or they aren't going to make it.

Really trying to make another asa style 3d tour is the biggest mistake, I would step back and think outside the box and find a way to change things into something new and special that nobody else is doing. Then you would create a buzz in the archery world and give people a reason to come, right now there is simply little to no reason to commit to regions.


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## elkhunter (Jun 7, 2002)

Same old story --- not enough shooters with enough money, vacation time, or time to support 4 different major national organizations every weekend --- ASA, IBO, NFAA, and Regions --- especially in addition of the high cost of travel and accommodations we are faced with today. Regions stands about as much chance of survival as a snowball in a heated oven --- a downright shame, but true.


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jan 4, 2009)

treeman65 said:


> They were a huge disappoint plus what happen to to city of warren was a bunch of crap


What happened at Warren? I worked with them last year and thought it went well.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

elkhunter said:


> Same old story --- not enough shooters with enough money, vacation time, or time to support 4 different major national organizations every weekend --- ASA, IBO, NFAA, and Regions --- especially in addition of the high cost of travel and accommodations we are faced with today. Regions stands about as much chance of survival as a snowball in a heated oven --- a downright shame, but true.


Never underestimate a man on a mission...who has some jingle in his pocket to back it up.


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## elmerspencer123 (Aug 26, 2014)

Hey Clyde. I wondered what happened to you. I thought you were going to work with Regions again this year. What happened?


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jan 4, 2009)

We had a disagreement and parted company.


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## elkhunter (Jun 7, 2002)

carlosii said:


> Never underestimate a man on a mission...who has some jingle in his pocket to back it up.


Pockets must be deeper than the Grand Canyon.


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## elmerspencer123 (Aug 26, 2014)

elkhunter said:


> Pockets must be deeper than the Grand Canyon.


I've heard that a house and a bank note can work wonders.


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## elmerspencer123 (Aug 26, 2014)

ClydeWigg3 said:


> We had a disagreement and parted company.


I'm sorry to hear that, you were missed this year. I always enjoyed talking to you on the range. What happened?


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## tank69kma (May 1, 2013)

I'm sure ASA and IBO in their infancy was perfect.  Give it time or don't, it has the potential and I personally know they are working hard for more shoots and getting it right.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> It's a self fulfilling prophecy.... you've got to have numbers to get numbers. Why do we load up and travel 800+ miles to an ASA?.... because we know everyone else is too. We know about what our class size will be before we go and we know what the potential upside is. This isn't just about attendance either. ASA uses a published and hard set payout schedule... it doesn't change mid year....and ASA checks get mailed out 8 days after every shoot the vast majority of the time.
> 
> I won Stillwater this year. The math didn't work on the "big" check I recieved at the shoot and called them afterwards. The confusion over payouts ran wide and deep and it ultimately took me almost 3 months to get my check. Other payouts at tournaments later on were different percentages.
> 
> ...


Exactly! For those that don't know neither of us shoot in K45, Open B or Hunter so we aren't thinking of ourselves. The fact is that those 3 classes are what could have got Regions off the ground. Those 3 classes alone could draw let's say 180 archers. Let's say each one of those guys in those 3 classes bring family and/or buddies. You now have around 400 archers playing. If you really believe in the pop-up game it could be Regions versions of the ASA Limbsaver side show and see where it goes.

I shot the NC tournament this year. It was a really nice venue and the K50 course was really well set as were the other courses I saw. It simply lacked attendance. I really thought there would have been at least 400+ archers in attendance. Why it was such a problem for me to get my check is beyond me as the math is very basic and simple.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tank69kma said:


> I'm sure ASA and IBO in their infancy was perfect.  Give it time or don't, it has the potential and I personally know they are working hard for more shoots and getting it right.


Please dont take offence to this......are you new to the 3d world of shooting??? And what I mean by new lets say anything say from 2008.... that would give asa 15yrs old...and ibo around 20....

For asa.....it didnt have new association issues like this....for it was manifested from a yearly event called the Budweiser shootout.....

Things take time.....now with the schedule dates changed up for 2015-16 there might be some differences to come out of it ...


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## ClydeWigg3 (Jan 4, 2009)

I perfer to air my laundry in my own back yard. We had differences of opinion that turned sour. I had a great time, met some great people and enjoyed helping to promote the tournaments through the original facebook page that I created, and I appreciated having a job at a time when I needed one.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

They might want to concentrate their events 
Closer together like their original plan. Quite a few were told at the Pa shoot they were planning a Ny, Ohio, Pa, WV or Virgina shoot for the following year. What did they do...... La, Ok, In and cancel the Pa shoot. Lol They said they were concentrating on the Ibo areas so they went to Asa country makes sense????
I like the shoot in Pa was a bit unorganized good thing there were 150 shooters and not 1500 or it would of been a nightmare. Until they set a schedule and stick to it and I don't have to drive over 12 hours to shoot I'm waiting and watching.


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## deer down (Feb 23, 2007)

i shot the event here in michigan and i was really dissapointed in the turn out just from michigan archers, which is sad, they ran a great shoot and the courses were awesome and so was the venue. i shot the bhc class and was in first going into the pop up shoot down. here is where i think this class is kinda silly. they whipe everyones scores clean and start at zero, to decide the winner on a novelty type shoot is kinda silly. doesnt to me show the best shooter for the weekend. if you keep the scores running like all the other classes then i would say fine, but thats not the case. as far as the other classes everything i heard was all positive except the numbers. hope they can make it.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Please dont take offence to this......are you new to the 3d world of shooting??? And what I mean by new lets say anything say from 2008.... that would give asa 15yrs old...and ibo around 20....
> 
> For asa.....it didnt have new association issues like this....for it was manifested from a yearly event called the Budweiser shootout.....
> 
> Things take time.....*now with the schedule dates changed up for 2015-16 there might be some differences to come out of it *...


What do you know...and when did you know it???


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

So 103 shooters at the National shoot. More than anything it's feeding ASA by giving new shooters a taste and then they go to ASA.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

3rdplace said:


> So 103 shooters at the National shoot. More than anything it's feeding ASA by giving new shooters a taste and then they go to ASA.


Is that the figure for West Monroe?


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

102...I left before shooting this morning...rain coming down in buckets, pros shot 10 targets and stopped, no definitive answer on whether we were going to continue or not, rain and severe thunderstorms forecast for all day today and tomorrow, so I wrote off my 40 bucks (it would have cost more than that to fix the issues the rain would have caused with my bow) and we left. I guess by the scores that they actually did get to shoot, but I was not going to shoot in a downpour. They (Regions) need to get out of the way of the ASA events and concentrate on the rest of the country that the ASA is ignoring...almost anything west of the Mississippi would work. Carlosii you didn't miss a thing...


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

tank69kma said:


> I'm sure ASA and IBO in their infancy was perfect.  Give it time or don't, it has the potential and I personally know they are working hard for more shoots and getting it right.


Not perfect but Asa was close to it when Wayne Pearson started it !!!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Davik said:


> 102...I left before shooting this morning...rain coming down in buckets, pros shot 10 targets and stopped, no definitive answer on whether we were going to continue or not, rain and severe thunderstorms forecast for all day today and tomorrow, so I wrote off my 40 bucks (it would have cost more than that to fix the issues the rain would have caused with my bow) and we left. I guess by the scores that they actually did get to shoot, but I was not going to shoot in a downpour. They (Regions) need to get out of the way of the ASA events and concentrate on the rest of the country that the ASA is ignoring...almost anything west of the Mississippi would work. Carlosii you didn't miss a thing...


Sorry to hear that. I was really hoping they'd have a good turn out and enjoy good weather. But I figured folks wouldn't give up their Labor Day plans....last chance to get with the family and hit the lake, grill the brats, and do family kinda things. Add to that it was in the deep south and a fur piece for those of us from the midwest and you might have shot yourself in the foot.

Hope he has a better year next year.


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah...I hope he learns from this year and concentrates next year on areas where there is no organized 3D presence...we need something like Regions in the central part of the country where IBO and ASA refuse to go.


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## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

Davik said:


> Yeah...I hope he learns from this year and concentrates next year on areas where there is no organized 3D presence...we need something like Regions in the central part of the country where IBO and ASA refuse to go.


I think you will like next years schedule for regions


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## Dan-0 (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm just amazed at the lack of communication from the organization. I also get a kick out of a few people that blame the customers for not showing up for their lack of success. 

The organization bears the responsibility of scheduling the event at a time and place the customers want, publicizing and promoting it, and executing the event flawlessly. If they do that, people will come. It's not the customers fault when they don't show because the date, location is wrong, and the event isn't properly promoted.


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

ba3darcher said:


> I think you will like next years schedule for regions


When are they going to announce the schedule? A lot of us plan our shoot schedule very soon.


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## RandyD (May 28, 2007)

I don't think there is a firm schedule yet but from what I heard being tossed around it sounded good to me. Remember the NABH? Thats what I am hoping for. Anyone can sit here and armchair quarterback this thing to death..literally. I want to see the succeed so I choose to support Regions and not write them off.


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## jbeasleyshoot (Jan 29, 2008)

I shot two regions shoots this year one in Shreveport which the turnout was horrible at and Stillwater because I live 30 minutes from it. I just was not willing to drop several hundred dollars to go out of town and shoot another regions tournament that may have 150 competitors. I think that everyone is in the same boat there is just not enough money to go around to support another association at this point and get little to no return. There was nothing wrong with the way regions did things it is just not worth my $$$ and vacation time to support it. I know that here in Oklahoma and the surrounding states a Federation style regions where there is qualifiers and a state shoot is getting going and I will support that. We had more shooters at our first regions state championship than was at the national.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

The NABH (North American Bow Hunters) was sponsored by Cabela's during the late 90's to early 2000. It too had shoots from Oklahoma to Pennsylvania. I believe once Cabela's didn't get it's investment back they pulled the plug. The Warren Pa. shoot was my first introduction into National tournament 3D archery. The combination of ASA and IBO ranges were challenging and well thought out. However the 20 some page contract between the host and organization was troublesome. The local Boy Scout Troup and other volunteers made the event run well. They directed shooters to their correct ranges, had sandwiches and drinks at the start of each range and they actually camped in the woods. One thing extremely equal about their rules was EVERYBODY shot through the chronograph upon exiting the ranges. Shot-gun starts on Saturday and Sunday with 2 Pro-Ams on Friday. What was also impressive was the registration trailer with computer's and a huge digital screen showing the schedule of events. They were far and above the standard which those of us north of the Mason-Dixon line have had to experience during the previous years... The timing and picking of locations is available for the best organization currently providing shooters with the best product for your dollar throughout the North and Mid-West. Record attendance is an indicator of their product!!!


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

I too shot the NABH shoots (a couple of them anyway) and would welcome an archery organization with open arms that would come to my neck of the woods to play...right now, ASA is held east of the Mississippi, which means a 12-16 hour drive for me...each ASA Pro Am costs me a thousand dollars to participate...the only ASA event left out our way is Paris...which may or may not exist in a year or two...what a grand time for Regions to establish a foothold and flourish in this area...but putting events further east than ASA will not lure me into participating. Given a choice between going to Michigan for Regions or Alabama for ASA, I'll go where the shooters are...if that choice was Alabama or Arkansas, the choice would be the closer one. Regions has to get further west and tap into a demographic that does not have ASA or IBO.


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## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

A the shoot out at regions it was announced there is going to be a east and west side,west being oklahoma, Louisiana, hopefully Texas and Iowa, east to be determined. The regions classic is going to be held in Branson, Mo.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

ba3darcher said:


> A the shoot out at regions it was announced there is going to be a east and west side,west being oklahoma, Louisiana, hopefully Texas and Iowa, east to be determined. The regions classic is going to be held in Branson, Mo.


Sounds good to me. 

I'd heard that Bass Pro was building a major shooting range in the Branson area that would include firearms and archery...not much lately.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm thinking if they put together four shoots, one each, in western PA, Ohio, Indiana, and northern Illinois, along with the four western shoots previously mentioned, they might be on to something. PROVIDED they don't go to places on dates when there might be big events taking place...like the Kentucky Derby.


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## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

carlosii said:


> I'm thinking if they put together four shoots, one each, in western PA, Ohio, Indiana, and northern Illinois, along with the four western shoots previously mentioned, they might be on to something. PROVIDED they don't go to places on dates when there might be big events taking place...like the Kentucky Derby.


agreed


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## tank69kma (May 1, 2013)

bhtr3d said:


> Please dont take offence to this......are you new to the 3d world of shooting??? And what I mean by new lets say anything say from 2008.... that would give asa 15yrs old...and ibo around 20....
> 
> For asa.....it didnt have new association issues like this....for it was manifested from a yearly event called the Budweiser shootout.....
> 
> Things take time.....now with the schedule dates changed up for 2015-16 there might be some differences to come out of it ...


I got started in 3D at the beginning of the year, so I am a noob. But you can't tell me that IBO and ASA started out with near perfect form. At any rate, I hope Regions is able to make it....I like having options.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tank69kma said:


> I got started in 3D at the beginning of the year, so I am a noob. But you can't tell me that IBO and ASA started out with near perfect form. At any rate, I hope Regions is able to make it....I like having options.


Actually back in the day Virginia and many other IBO state shoots were drawing _much _larger numbers than the Regions shoots have drawn. Both the IBO and ASA got legs AFTER a lot of people were already shooting 3d type archery. They did not "create" 3D archery.


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## Doug405 (Mar 16, 2014)

I enjoyed the national championship last weekend. Ranges were awesome. Facilities were great. Like others have said, the only thing disappointing was the turnout.


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> It's a self fulfilling prophecy.... you've got to have numbers to get numbers. Why do we load up and travel 800+ miles to an ASA?.... because we know everyone else is too. We know about what our class size will be before we go and we know what the potential upside is. This isn't just about attendance either. ASA uses a published and hard set payout schedule... it doesn't change mid year....and ASA checks get mailed out 8 days after every shoot the vast majority of the time.
> 
> I won Stillwater this year. The math didn't work on the "big" check I recieved at the shoot and called them afterwards. The confusion over payouts ran wide and deep and it ultimately took me almost 3 months to get my check. Other payouts at tournaments later on were different percentages.
> 
> ...




^^^^^ what he said plus the fact that the majority of people just don't have the means to go to 3 venues. I live in SW Ohio. I love the ASA more than I do the IBO yet I still choose to shoot the IBO. I shoot he IBO because there shoots are closer and all the local clubs are IBO w/ Rhinehart targets. I don't have enough coin to buy a range of McKenzie targets and polish my 12 game nor would I have the time to if I did own the targets. I know that's what K-45 is for right? That is a whole different type of pressure. I mean you have no excuses then. My ego can't handle it. lol. Seriously though one shoot a month is about all my wallet can handle. Especially since all the hotels jack their rates up just because there is a shoot scheduled.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

I don't know if moving more shoots out west would help, but for many in the eastern tier, there are just too many shoots too close together and archers can't afford them all. ASA will draw the crowds as it is tried and true. Regions could capture the flag out west where there are almost no big money 3D events - maybe their market is in that region where lots of people would like to play but can't afford the time and money to travel to the ASA venues.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

rsw said:


> I don't know if moving more shoots out west would help, but for many in the eastern tier, there are just too many shoots too close together and archers can't afford them all. ASA will draw the crowds as it is tried and true. Regions could capture the flag out west where there are almost no big money 3D events - maybe their market is in that region where lots of people would like to play but can't afford the time and money to travel to the ASA venues.


I know Lancaster's located well east, and I think TRU Ball is too. So, will the vendors follow Regions to the west?


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

There are many vendors that are located west of the Mississippi...besides...the vendors are not the reason we shooters go to these national events...yes, they play a part, but I would go with or without vendors...Regions needs to get out here where IBO has abandoned us, ASA rules the area, and is telling us that if we want to shoot national events we will go east. I would support a venue or organization that caters to the west central US


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Davik said:


> There are many vendors that are located west of the Mississippi...besides...the vendors are not the reason we shooters go to these national events...yes, they play a part, but I would go with or without vendors...Regions needs to get out here where IBO has abandoned us, ASA rules the area, and is telling us that if we want to shoot national events we will go east. I would support a venue or organization that caters to the west central US


My point was that vendors help make the event, not that people should or would attend a shoot based on their presence. Its just that I think Regions needs vendors to help make the event more attractive to shooters. I agree that there are a good many shooters in the lower midwest that would be expected to support an ASA format event.


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

As much as we wanted to follow the Regions tour, like we have the ASA tours since our rertirement, there were so many things that changrd our minds. Even if most of the things are considered trivial, we didn't expect such a distance that Regions seems to place between their organization and the shoooters.
Somewhere I was left with the feeling that, Regions must be thinking if we build it they will come, so why should we be concerned with communicating with the shooters or even have information on a web page for them to view.
Does Regions really think that they should leave it up to someone else to promote their events? Do they really think that with only a copy another organizaions operating platform, and without the relationship between them and their shooters, that people will travel to their events.
After attending some of their events, I saw nothing that many of the good local club shoots doesn't offer, except maybe having to pay a larger entry fee, pay to use the practice range, requirement to join their organization, and even club shoots have their insurance included in their entry fee.
Does Regions really feel that with what they have to offer their shooters, as compared to other national organizations, that their entry fees and membership should be the same.
Most shooters I know, including myself, really wanted Regions to hit the ground running and really grow into a major tour, and still wants them to grow. However, in my opinion, the people wanting them to bring their events to their area will require a following that Regions seems to have no interest in developing.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Without vendors and sponsor support no organization can not expect to survive.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Bubba Dean said:


> Without vendors and sponsor support no organization can not expect to survive.


Man, talk about a chicken and an egg...


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