# Distortion-free at the edges (sunglasses lenses)



## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I've searched a bunch of previous threads but have been unsuccessful at finding an answer for my question ....

Topic: wearing sunglasses while shooting outside, in order to 1) protect eyes from UV and what not, and 2) perhaps provide a starker target contrast, and 3) perhaps provide a little wind/dust fatigue relief

The Problem: My aiming line goes just in front of the bridge of my nose to the target (like most of us, I assume). This means that I'm actually looking through the right lens of the sunglasses at a spot that is very close to the inside edge of the right lens. What I find - and I've tested many brands/types of lens - is that all of the lens, that close to the inside edge of the lens, will 'move' the target point versus where that target point will appear without the sunglasses. At 70 meters, that lens distortion is disastrous - in a scenario where you may be shooting part of the tournament round with your sunglasses, and part of the round without your sunglasses.

I still wear hard contacts (dinosaur), but they make me very susceptible to glare and to wind and to bright sunlight. So I'm interested in finding sunglasses that will protect my eyes and perhaps even help my target focus/contrast a bit.

So, my question is - have others (besides engtree, who made the same observation in a thread from 2006 regarding the edge-of-the-lens distortion, but he didn't name which brands/models did NOT distort) who has noticed the same thing, and what brands/models have you found that were, in fact, distortion free to the edge? 

ps - I've tested most of the Oakley models; Raybans; I have an old pair of Gargoyles that made me look like a fly, but their marketing at the time was approved for use by US Air Force pilots, primarily because their lenses were supposed to curve precisely so that the lens would not bend the light passing through the lends, from edge to edge - but they, in fact, do bend the light at the edge, because the target point moves as you put on and take off the glasses.


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## Chris RL (Oct 30, 2011)

LKS, hello
One answer - Decot Hy-Wyde shooting glasses. Yes, he makes them for archers as well. Asymmetric grinds, also prescription grinds, right out to the edges, for shooters. Also 40+ different tints for optimum color resolution under, for instance, those nasty mercury indoor lights that we all seem to be afflicted with in 18m events...

http://www.sportglasses.com

Not cheap but excellent service. Been shooting them for decades now.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

http://www.oakley.com/products/6701/26833 this would be the best idear I have. Knobloch makes shooting glasses but, nothing that I think would be best. Costa Del Mar 580G lens is the finest I have ever used, followed closely by Smith glass. But, neither of them make a panoramic style lens like Oakley does. There is one other option...Randolph Ranger, I have not had a pair of Randolph's in a few years and never shot with them on a bow, only 5-stand and sporting clays.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the pointer! I actually just sent a message/question to Decot's website http://www.decot.com/cart/shopcustcontact.asp about 30 minutes ago, asking about this very thing (and then decided that I didn't want to wait for a 'business day' for an answer, and so posted here, too). Your post encourages me that this brand will give me at least one source of satisfaction for my quest.

It's a curious thing to look at a point of light 15 feet away through a pair of sunglasses, and then flip up the glasses and watch the point of light move a couple of inches.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Hi Edge,

I was at an Oakley store earlier today - tried on about 20 different models, and every one of them distorted the point of aim. I've still got a pair of Mframe Oakley golf glasses from when I was playing golf in the 90's, and its lens distorts at the edge, too. 

Oakley even has a Range XL model with 'shooter specific' lenses. I tried on a pair of these at the store, that had a different color lens, and they distorted. As their website doesn't make any mention of distortion free performance at the edge, I doubt that the shooter-specific lens is anything more than a color distinction. 

Frustrating, as I like Oakley products.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Butch Johnson has worn the same pair of Ray Ban's to shoot in for years.


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## Chris RL (Oct 30, 2011)

LKS, hello!
Actually Champion glasses,:

http://www.precision-sports.com/olympicseries.htm

are the all-out no-compromise shooting glasses that Olympic pistol and rifle shooters use. They also have an offset/archery frame (look further down the page).

However, they tend to look very weird and nerdy on people and so Decots are cooler... 

Yes, I have a pair of those as well. You can adjust absolutely everything about them, including offset to the edge of your eye's movement. 

However, you'll have to bring your full rig into your optician's to get the lenses measured and the correct prescription made up. 

My optician about had a fit when I walked in the first time, but now all my shooting pals are doing it too so he's very blase about the whole thing...


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## Chris RL (Oct 30, 2011)

Well the last time I just called in and spent around an hour talking with the doc about what kind of shooting I do, what conditions, etc., so be prepared for that!  Nothing like a specialist who knows exactly what he's doing - and loves to shoot!


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris,

_Actually Champion glasses,:

http://www.precision-sports.com/olympicseries.htm

are the all-out no-compromise shooting glasses that Olympic pistol and rifle shooters use. They also have an offset/archery frame (look further down the page)._

Good night! I sent a pic of this archery frame to a heart surgeon friend of mine, and he answered back with a laugh and said "that looks sophisticated enough to be something my neurosurgeon partner installs during spine surgery"  Pretty incredible. Although while looking at these I thought "if you show up wearing RoboCop's sunglasses, Larry, you better be shooting the flaming heck out of the gold" 

John,

I wonder if Butch's Ray-Bans are glass lenses. Probably. I kinda suspect that plastic lenses can't get you 'distortion-free" in a curved lens.


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## colt3840 (Jul 31, 2011)

My son who is a lefty was also looking for sun glasses aslo. A frined of his who is a compound shooter had a pair of Oakley RadarLock http://www.oakley.com/products/6961/26232 and they seemend to work great. My son and I went to the Oakley store with riser in hand and tried them out and he liked them so we picked them up.


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## red_elan10 (Apr 23, 2008)

[/QUOTE]I wonder if Butch's Ray-Bans are glass lenses. Probably. I kinda suspect that plastic lenses can't get you 'distortion-free" in a curved lens.[/QUOTE]

lksseven: Butch says they are glass lenses - and as John said, he has been shooting in them for ages. Butch says that prior to those, he used a pair of Oakley wraparounds, but that the Ray-Bans have worked out better for him. 

Another good resource for these questions about glasses is Chuck Cooley from Feather Vision (scope lens manufacturer), who also owns Classic Optical in Ithaca, New York. He and his wife Mari are very familiar with lenses that do and don't distort and he will at least be willing to chat with you about ideas, I'm sure. You can find him on Facebook as "Classic Optical."


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Teresa,

Thanks so much for the help! I'll definitely contact Chuck.


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## FV Chuck (Dec 11, 2004)

Got your messages - 

For starters; please understand that I'm a professional archer, an optician, an optics expert and a retailer for Oakley, Maui Jim, Ray Ban, Decot, and Champion. 

I know what your looking for and asking in these posts. The Decot, Champion, Rangers, Knoblochs are not addressing the question and need you describe. They are all fantastic products it's why I design, make or sell them in various formats. Each has a great application and purpose, just not what I think your looking for right now.

There are some solutions that will work, I can help you find them - Please send me in a private message (not on AT) of how I can best reach you.

[email protected]
http://www.facebook.com/ClassicOpticalIthaca

Thanks!
Chuck

(( Thanks T, 'preciate the help ))


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Teresa, I think I recall seeing Butch in Oakleys in Atlanta. The photo above was clearly in Sydney, as he was shooting the Axis riser then. After shooting with Butch at the trials in '04, I went on a search for sunglasses I could shoot in. I found it's not easy when you have a big nose like mine! ha, ha. 

Thanks for the great information. I'm sure you've helped a lot of folks there.


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

Living in Phoenix, sunglasses are almost as important as the string on the bow. I searched far and wide and came up with some (actually cheap ones from Walmart). I found that they had to be rimless, NOT Polarized (I found the polarized glasses to be less distinct around the edges), and the nose pieces had to come down from the top. I bent the nose pieces so that the right lens sits against my nose (I am right handed). Since I am old and blind, I added small stick-on bifocal pieces. Have patience-I probably tried on 500-1000 pair until I found the right ones.


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

I remain suspicious of "dark" sunglasses until the day when I see some seriously performed shooting comparisons with many subjects: with and without, under same lighting conditions. Perhaps reading this, some archers will actually test: Shoot 30 arrows with sunglasses, then 30 without, and do this on several different days. Compare the scores. You probably think nothing of testing a fletch, or arrow weight, or distance of extension bar on site, in this acid-test way. Why not test your eyeballs?  
I've long wondered whether the sunglasses diminish contrast and decrease perception some percent. (not saying the same thing about "shooting glasses" which use different spectrum filtering).
For many archers, I suspect the problem is not the glasses, it is the coaching.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for the link, Ron. Your article makes perfect sense.


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## Ronin Conan (Jul 4, 2011)

Has anyone found that their impact point (particularly at longer distances) changes when wearing sunglasses? It would have to be backed up by TexARC's empirical test, but would most of the glasses mentioned in this thread generally not create too much perceptual distortion through the centre of the lens? I've been looking at getting a pair of some kind of oakleys, but may look into some of the others mentioned here


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Nice link ron. I guess I was just lucky. I never had a problem shooting with glasses on from the get-go. So I guess I always just naturally faced the target more, which may be why I had more success early than some. 

I read an article years ago about shooting sports and sunglasses. It suggested that an eye that was dialated was a less "accurate" eye and that by removing your glasses and allowing your pupils to shrink, you were in effect, making your aiming more precise. I'm not sure about the science behind that, but I always kept this in mind and generally will remove my sunglasses to shoot, then put them back on after I've shot the final arrow in an end. Sometimes I'll forget to remove them, and I seem to shoot fine, so maybe there's nothing to it. I haven't tested it scientifically yet. I usually just plan to shoot without my sunglasses on. 

Ever since 2004, every pair of sunglasses I've bought for regular wear have been rimless with adjustable nose pieces, just so I can be sure that I can shoot in them with a minimum of problems. I also look for good quality lenses, but paying more doesn't guarantee this. Some of my most distortion free sunglasses have cost no more than $20.

You just have to try and try and try again to find the right pair for your face. 

John


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

_"...but would most of the glasses mentioned in this thread generally not create too much perceptual distortion through the centre of the lens?"_

I think almost all good quality sunglasses (expensive and unexpensive) will be virtually distortion-free through the _center_ of the lens. The litmus test is at full draw, where does your eye's aiming point pierce the sunglass lens? If it's through a rounded part of the lens (say, within 3/8" from the edge of the lens), then the bullseye will move substantially from 'glasses off' to glasses on'. You can test it anywhere - in your hallway, driveway. Just look hard at an object holding your airbow at full draw/anchor, then keep looking at that object hard and slip your sunglasses down over your eye - if you're aiming with your right eye (as a righty), it's very likely the object will appear through the lens to be slightly to the left of where it appeared to your naked eye. The lens is bending the light as it passes through the lens, and the image is perceived to be in a different location.


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## Ronin Conan (Jul 4, 2011)

Might be fun to print off some parallel lines and the circle ones they use to show astygmatisms and go play with some lenses. Thanks


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## Ronin Conan (Jul 4, 2011)

Accursed forum won't let me edit, after playing with my cheap sunnies I realise that stuff's not at all the issue. Safest bet seems to be to not shoot with them on, as limbwalker said.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Maybe the compromise between shooting accuracy and eye health is a pair of sunglasses that have flip up lenses (like baseball outfielders use), so you could flip the aiming eye lens up to shoot your end, then flip it down for everything in between.


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but is the problem with the sunglasses or is more of a problem that we all need to learn how to look more straight towards the target then out the corner of our eyes?


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I agree, the more 'head on' to the target the better. But, even at that, it's still some kind of an angle (at least for _my_ 56year old neck), and the sunglasses I tested all moved the target from point A to point B versus the naked eye.

I just this minute got back from visiting a longtime optician here in town, and he said 'naked eye' is always better for shooting. He also, coincidentally, suggested flip up sunglasses like baseball players wear - up for 4 minutes to shoot, then down for everything in between for the UV ray/other assorted eye health benefits. So that's the direction I'm now veering towards.


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

Good find on the flip up sunglasses. A local coach here in az also suggests stretching exercises for the neck. I'm sure that can add a 3 or more degrees of flexibility.


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