# How long is to long for an ASA round



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I know on my course both days they were really challenging and the overall difficulty of the shots really slowed down ranging the distances, especially since they stuck the senior open shooters with semi pro. They only have a 45 yd max and we have a 50 yd max and the only things said to the senior shooters was to expect some shots to be well over your max. That really to me slowed down things because in all reality there were no shots from 48 to 50.5 yards but in the back of your mind you felt like some of them could be that far so you had to slow down and really make sure. 

1. Groups that leave their stake before the group leaves their stake should be strung up, why? Because the next group moves into their stake they just left and begins ranging and shooting before the group that left even gets to their stake. This totally screws up everything and the flow of the course.

2. Way to many of the shots at Foley and Paris are so much of a tunnel that only one person can judge the target, for unknown shooters when the whole group can stand on the line and see the target that two minutes is shared time instead of one or two minutes per shooter. 

3. Overall and it sucks really bad and will tick off people but the range officials need to be more like a teacher in public schools and move up and down the ranges and vocally talk out loud and get things up and running more smoothly, I am a teacher and this is what I do all day long for two decades and once people realize that you are on task and trying to do things to keep the course moving they will be ok with it. In the beginning the idiots will throw a fit but even they will come around once the courses are flowing smoothly.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

By the way, I actually didn't really realize the day lasting any longer than usual. Once you learn to do your thing and then sit down and tell stories and enjoy the guys in your group your day will really pass on by nicely. I had a great time getting to know the guys in my group and really enjoyed my weekend, I totally sucked because the courses were tough on my two ranges and I made way to many mistakes on my yardage but I did really enjoy Marlow and Shore and Van Dam, they were three guys that I had never shot with before and have always wanted to get in a group with them and they didn't disappoint.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

How many to a stake? What classes were shooting the range with Senior Known?


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## rockyw (Sep 16, 2013)

> They only have a 45 yd max and we have a 50 yd max and the only things said to the senior shooters was to expect some shots to be well over your max.


That was kind of lane, no separate stake? I thought ASA was more organized than that.


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## nowheels (Mar 28, 2009)

Just like driving at rush hour, one person hits brakes and next thing you know your in stopped traffic. With no officials checking courses some shooters just wont move. Does it really take 2 minutes to shoot a target or is half that time just used because you can? After the shot why are they still on stake with binos to see how they did. If nobody says anything I will just keep slowing down, I have seen 6 hour 20 target rounds.


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## Coug09 (Feb 4, 2007)

Padgett said:


> I know on my course both days they were really challenging and the overall difficulty of the shots really slowed down ranging the distances, especially since they stuck the senior open shooters with semi pro. They only have a 45 yd max and we have a 50 yd max and the only things said to the senior shooters was to expect some shots to be well over your max. That really to me slowed down things because in all reality there were no shots from 48 to 50.5 yards but in the back of your mind you felt like some of them could be that far so you had to slow down and really make sure.
> 
> 1. Groups that leave their stake before the group leaves their stake should be strung up, why? Because the next group moves into their stake they just left and begins ranging and shooting before the group that left even gets to their stake. This totally screws up everything and the flow of the course.
> 
> ...


I agree completely Padgett!

It stinks you got moved off of our stake! We have had some tough ranges for the first two shoots and I love it. The ASA has their stuff together this year when setting ranges!


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## math1963 (Apr 9, 2014)

BubbaDean1 said:


> How many to a stake? What classes were shooting the range with Senior Known?


On Saturday everyone had 6 on the stake, some groups had 5 on Sunday due to someone in the group not coming back as mine did. We as had a couple of groups K45 and several women groups.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

math1963 said:


> Paris TX, Senior Known rounds were 4:35 and 4:30 hours. On Sunday, we had two open target lanes one on each side of the road. We also had 2 - 3 groups sitting out between targets 10 and 11. I think ASA needs to address these issues.


As far as I know there were 21 groups on our course which means there was one group at a time sitting out. I did not see not see any open target lanes. On Sunday the wreck was when the Senior Known group two back behind us shot 5 arrows at the target directly behind us before we pulled our arrows. This happened around target 14 and rippled through the range. It's common sense that if group C shoots say target 13 while group B is waiting to get on stake 14 and before group A has even pulled their arrows from 14 there is going to irregular delays and backups. The screw up had a group sitting out in the middle of the range which could have made it appear there was an open stake and two groups sitting out at once.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm right with you Coug09, I have really enjoyed the courses this year. They are tough enough that you can't just take any shot lightly, they have a feel of you have to really earn the right to stay in the 10 ring and getting some 12's is more a thing of course management than anything else. 

Most courses I have ever shot you have some hard shots and then you run into some targets where you can make up points or make runs at getting a string of 12's but on the saturday course it just offered no breaks where a guy could make one of those runs. 

I looked at anyone who shot my two courses this even or better as a guy who really shot strong and had a good head on his shoulders all weekend and to me that is a special thing that a tough course brings out. I was not one of those guys.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

the poor footing walking to and from targets the past two shoots does add some time to the shoot. However some ranges at Paris were much better than others.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

If people would just follow the rules it would move much better.
Moving onto the stake of the group in front of you before they move burns my backside.
Somebody using binos after shooting and standing at the stake to do it burns my backside.
Somebody taking more than their alloted time to shoot because they keep letting down burns my backside.
There's lots of other stuff that burns my backside but that's a good start.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I want there to be a staging stake on the road between the two targets, Nobody is allowed to go up to the shooting stake for any reason. When the shooter in that group is ready he goes up to the stake and is allowed two minutes to judge the target and shoot the shot. 

This eliminates the group ranging of the target or just standing there glassing the target as the group first gets there, It also forces a guy to make decisions quickly so he has some time left to actually make the shot.

Then by allowing shooters to show up a little early to the range and walk around and scout it a good thing where they can feel out each stake for 30 minutes and then when it is their turn they can step up and use the 2 minutes wisely. Most of us walk around and scout the course anyway before the day begins.


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

In all the ASA tournaments I've shot 4-4.5 hours is the norm. Anything over 5 is getting long anything under 4 is quick. You would think in known distance it would go faster but it just doesn't. Shooters still have to shoot, you still have to wait on groups beside you, you still have to go call arrows(sometimes this can take a few minutes) and pull arrows.


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## math1963 (Apr 9, 2014)

Kstigall said:


> As far as I know there were 21 groups on our course which means there was one group at a time sitting out. I did not see not see any open target lanes. On Sunday the wreck was when the Senior Known group two back behind us shot 5 arrows at the target directly behind us before we pulled our arrows. This happened around target 14 and rippled through the range. It's common sense that if group C shoots say target 13 while group B is waiting to get on stake 14 and before group A has even pulled their arrows from 14 there is going to irregular delays and backups. The screw up had a group sitting out in the middle of the range which could have made it appear there was an open stake and two groups sitting out at once.



21 total groups sounds right. However, we started on target 6 and when we completed target 10 we sat out one turn. After completing target 12 we moved into target 13 and shot and pulled arrows somehow before the group on target 14 shot. We sat on 13 until 14 shot and pulled. While waiting one of the K45 shooters came up to find out what was holding up the progress and stated there were 2-3 groups waiting to shoot target 11. At this time I witnessed an open target ahead of us and one on the other side of the road.


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## TMax27 (Nov 7, 2006)

2:45 minutes for the Hunter class known range on Sunday... There were no 6 to a target, I'd guess the majority had 4. I had to take some stuff to a buddy on D range after I shot, he shoots K45 and they were pushing 4:45 by the time they walked off.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

math1963 said:


> 21 total groups sounds right. However, we started on target 6 and when we completed target 10 we sat out one turn. After completing target 12 we moved into target 13 and shot and pulled arrows somehow before the group on target 14 shot. We sat on 13 until 14 shot and pulled. While waiting one of the K45 shooters came up to find out what was holding up the progress and stated there were 2-3 groups waiting to shoot target 11. At this time I witnessed an open target ahead of us and one on the other side of the road.


Understood. Once groups started over lapping on targets and the ripple starts you'll have open targets and more than one group waiting. If there was more than one group "between" 10 and 11 there had to be open targets. If there were 3 groups waiting between 10 and 11 then there was definitely two open targets. All because _we _chose to push forward. In this case the only thing the ASA could have done was make most of the range hold their place and wait for the open lanes to fill back up, i.e. the wave of moving groups to fill the open lanes. THAT is the reason you do not push forward to the next stake. It ultimately buggers up the flow.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Your slowest group sets the pace


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## Lcp3557 (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm focused no matter how long it takes. I prefer a good pace but if it's slow, I don't let it bother me. I enjoy shooting Friday and Saturday due to the smaller crowd on Friday. I know everyone can't swing this but I can lol.


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## Coug09 (Feb 4, 2007)

Padgett said:


> I'm right with you Coug09, I have really enjoyed the courses this year. They are tough enough that you can't just take any shot lightly, they have a feel of you have to really earn the right to stay in the 10 ring and getting some 12's is more a thing of course management than anything else.
> 
> Most courses I have ever shot you have some hard shots and then you run into some targets where you can make up points or make runs at getting a string of 12's but on the saturday course it just offered no breaks where a guy could make one of those runs.
> 
> I looked at anyone who shot my two courses this even or better as a guy who really shot strong and had a good head on his shoulders all weekend and to me that is a special thing that a tough course brings out. I was not one of those guys.


You definitely had to earn everything you got. I was happy to end up 9 up and only two arrows out of the 10 ring all weekend. One just happened to be a terrible underjudge on the javalina Saturday. The other one I shot right on the wolf after making the turn and not clicking my sight. 

I hope the tougher ranges continue. Your course management has to be spot on and you have to be very level headed. There were MANY targets I was unsure on and just shot a 10 so I could live to see another day. I kind of put the peddle on the gas a little more towards the end Sunday but came up one point shy. I shot just over the mule deer on my second to last target and that was the difference. I'm happy though. I wouldn't take any of my shots back to do over. It was a grind beginning to end


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

TMax27 said:


> 2:45 minutes for the Hunter class known range on Sunday... There were no 6 to a target, I'd guess the majority had 4. I had to take some stuff to a buddy on D range after I shot, he shoots K45 and they were pushing 4:45 by the time they walked off.




K45 is getting out of hand with efficiency however its easy to fix if most are on the same page. Really no diff than unknown yardage. as a group you all step to the stake to range it. first guys stays and shoots while everyone else Is setting there sight. This simple step saves a ton of time. 
so many people bino-range-set sight-rerange- reset sight, bino, nock arrow, bino then shoot after 3 letdowns( I however have no problem with taking your time at the shot) that's where you attention needs to be! 
last year guy in the group in front of us got a tap on the shoulder( and a big zero) after 2 warnings for time, all it took was for him to range the target after the shot from the stake.....again!


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

I personally don't see how everyone ranging it as a group is faster. In my experience it slowed it down. There's not enough room for 2 people to range from the stake let alone 6 at the same time. Sequence should be range, set, bino and shoot After your release touches the string, no sight adjustments or binos from the stake


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

No doubt that in Known classes it's best if everyone ranges before the first guys shoots. Usually 2 or more can range at once and then we are all setting our sights at the same time rather than one at a time at the stake. I know a lot of the guys in Senior Known take a minute to set their sights, I have to use reading glasses.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

the issue isn't the process, it simply going to take longer if you have 6 shooters per stake (and a sit out) than it does when you only have 5 or even better 4 shooters per stake. growth is good, until it affects you personally.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Per ASA rules on Unknown distance each shooter gets two minutes on known distance each shooter gets one minute to shoot. each group gets four minutes to score pull and advance to the next target. Most range officials are lenient to the shooters in the scoring and pulling phase taking in consideration conditions of the lane. One thing that would speed up all classes is if archers could be like golfer and play "ready" golf. First shooter takes his stuff to the stake and begins their shooting time, the other shooters stand behind them either judging or ranging the target. When the first shooter is done the second shooter is ready and immediately steps to the stake(all that is left to do is confirm yardage, set sight and shoot). Others shooters just repeat the process.

Following the rules to the letter the Senior Known range(not sure what range it was in TX) with six shooters should have six minutes to shoot and four to score pull and advance or 10 minutes per target. Having 21 groups it should take 210 minutes or 3.5 hours to complete.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Texas is also a different tournament for ASA as far as range officials go. There were 11 ranges and only 5 full time range officials and a rookie. The other 5 were volunteers from Paris. Unfortunately the volunteers in some cases had zero experience. I am sure they did their best.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Give the group a timer, shooter steps to stake, start the timer and if it sounds before shot is gone then to bad. Would make things more interesting and professional. I counted 6 let downs once and the guy wasn't in my group and I wanted to go over and give him a zero.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

jimb said:


> Give the group a timer, shooter steps to stake, start the timer and if it sounds before shot is gone then to bad. Would make things more interesting and professional. I counted 6 let downs once and the guy wasn't in my group and I wanted to go over and give him a zero.


Wow, I like that one...are you listening ASA Competition Committee?


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## Longshot87 (Jan 15, 2014)

Paris was interesting to say the least Saturday we had 6 per group with the range I was on we had K45, Sr. K45, as well as Women's K45 with groups sitting out on the turns. Didn't really oh attention to it on Saturday. But Sunday I noticed that when you shot on either target 1 or 20 you had to wait on I think B range targets 10 or 11 depending on if you shot 1 or 20 and that consisted of Women's unknown. For that I would like to have seen a little more separation between the ranges. But that is just mho.


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## shanxalot (Mar 4, 2012)

If give them a timer how long do you think it would take them to get on stake ? Texas has 30 targets at the state level to avoid large groups which they have great turn outs


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

math1963 said:


> Paris TX, Senior Known rounds were 4:35 and 4:30 hours. On Sunday, we had two open target lanes one on each side of the road. We also had 2 - 3 groups sitting out between targets 10 and 11. I think ASA needs to address these issues.


The round is too long when you start the round shooting Open C and finish it shooting Super Senior.


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## ridgehunter70 (Sep 30, 2012)

math1963 said:


> Paris TX, Senior Known rounds were 4:35 and 4:30 hours. On Sunday, we had two open target lanes one on each side of the road. We also had 2 - 3 groups sitting out between targets 10 and 11. I think ASA needs to address these issues.


The very reason I stopped going to the asa shoots along with me not having much time to shoot anymore

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