# Stabilizers 101?



## Mestang99 (Jan 10, 2013)

I have a question in the general forum looking for a similar answer. So far it seems that you have to know the rules of the clubs you are going to be shooting at to know what will be allowed for which class. ASA and NFAA allow BHFS to shoot a V-Bar setup, but length and if the local club will allow it are 2 different things.


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## Thermodude (Dec 15, 2011)

Mestang99 said:


> I have a question in the general forum looking for a similar answer. So far it seems that you have to know the rules of the clubs you are going to be shooting at to know what will be allowed for which class. ASA and NFAA allow BHFS to shoot a V-Bar setup, but length and if the local club will allow it are 2 different things.


Thanks for your reply.


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## 3D JOE (Aug 28, 2012)

If you get a dead center stab you can get weight out front on an offset for bowhunter class. you could also just offset the whole stab on a side bar. call todd at DCAP he is really creative with this kind of thing. He got me all set up and he makes alot of time to make sure you are happy with what you get (i talked to him for over an hour and not once did he act like he didnt have time for all my questions). Its nice to support a business like that where you're not just another sale for them. Also they have a great return policy so you can try it out and if its not what you want he will take it back hassle free. His number is 1-570-658-1069. he makes really nice stuff!!!


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## bfelver (May 13, 2012)

ibo change rule to 12 in. circle from mounting point witch means u would be able to run a back bar / side bar


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Mestang99 said:


> I have a question in the general forum looking for a similar answer. So far it seems that you have to know the rules of the clubs you are going to be shooting at to know what will be allowed for which class. ASA and NFAA allow BHFS to shoot a V-Bar setup, but length and if the local club will allow it are 2 different things.


If your local club won't allow it....but your really preparing for ASA or NFAA shoots....wouldn't setting up your bow for the bigger events and shooting in the open classes at the local club be smarter then setting up a bow to play in the kiddie pool at the club?


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## gjstudt (Nov 14, 2005)

You have a ton of options with a Doinker Tactical to stay in with new IBO rule that really benefit the shooter and the different shooting styles.

You can run bars both ways at any length provided you stay inside the cycle 12" from the point of attachment.

You can run the weight on the front or back bar. You can move the bar in and out to get side load. You can add Doinker Dish to the end of the bars if you want and get more side load or move front/back weight.

So many options I can't even think of them all.

The great thing is when you get it the way you want it you can leave it alone when you go hunting in a real hunting setting.

If you get a chance to go to an ASA come see me (in the doinker booth) and I can let you try all kinds of options to find the one you like. 

Doinker will also custom build the Tactical to any configuration you want on the initial purchase. Just call them and tell them how you want it.


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## hossa1881 (Apr 1, 2010)

bfelver said:


> ibo change rule to 12 in. circle from mounting point witch means u would be able to run a back bar / side bar


only one stabilizer though....so yes you can run a back bar, but thats all you get (no front bar)


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## crowemagnum189 (Dec 11, 2012)

Vendetta enforcer is an awsome stabilizer for 3d i just bought one alittle while ago and wow what a difference. ive tried alot of different stabilizers and different setups with off setting and sidebars but the vendetta beats them all hands down.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

more weight out front makes it harder to torque the bow. Too much weight and your fighting it too much. Takes time to get use to after changes. Side weight is used to help balance the bow, typically the sight and other things throws off the balance and a side bat helps balance that out. Not going to get into the rules cause there different for each org but dpending on the weights you can do a lot and still stay within the limits.


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## x<----------<<< (Jul 6, 2011)

I also use the deadcenter products. They are amazing!!! Todd is a great guy he will take all the time you need to get you a setup that works for you. Also he has the bow balancer so he can really fine tune the way your bow is balanced.


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## tecshooter (Oct 29, 2003)

If I was setting one up, I would do it with the DCAP Dead Level Hunter setup. Setups like this and the Doinker Tactical just make sense to me to get the most out of your hunter class rig.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

*Stabilizers*



Thermodude said:


> My question is about getting the most out of a stabilizer and still stay within the limits of "Hunter Class" ? Correct me if Im wrong but weight up front helps to steady verticle movement, and offset or side weight helps with horizontal movement. With that in mind what settup offers the best of both worlds and still gets the shooter within the limits?


The primary purpose of a stabilizer is to increase the bow's resistance to outside forces after the bow comes to full draw. At this point the bow is as close to not moving as it can be. Since we are not machines, it is impossible to hold the bow without _any_ movement, so there will inevitably be slight muscle movements, tremors, as well as outside forces such as wind. By increasing what is technically referred to as the "Moment of Inertia" it will require more force to move the bow relative to the axis of the stabilizer effectively making the bow more steady. It is the same concept behind a tight rope walker carrying a long pole to steady the walker as he crosses the rope. While he may have slight small jerks as the rope flexes in reaction to his steps, but the long pole resists that movement giving the walker a steadying hand hold.

The farther from the point of attachment, the greater the resistance or moment of inertia. Because it becomes impractical to have an excessively long rod, weights added to the tip act in the same way, increasing the MOI. The further from the bow you can mount the weight, the less weight you need - it becomes more effective the further from the bow. 

Applied to archery, rules will limit your class of shooting to 12". The more weight you can tolerate at the end of a 12" stabilizer will result in greater MOI. At some point, and it varies with each individual, you get worse results as heavy weights increase the onset of fatigue. I'd recommend experimenting with a stabilizer which can accommodate different weights and find your sweet spot. The rear bars are solely to bring a nose heavy bow into balance at full draw. Everyone is different. Some can hold steady with very little assistance - others need more. The key is experiment and find what works best for you.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

> Correct me if Im wrong but weight up front helps to steady verticle movement, and offset or side weight helps with horizontal movement.


The main stab will steady up/down and right/left.
















The side bars will help dampen rotational forces along the axis of the main stab (tilting), but are primarily to counter balance the main stabilizer.


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## 4t6r3434 (Aug 26, 2010)

I hope to shoot in MCBH which has no limits on stabilizers. My distance vision forces me to go there so I can use a lens and I am old enough actually too dam old. My shop guy recommends 2x the weight on rear than on front does that sound reasonable


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

4t6r3434 said:


> I hope to shoot in MCBH which has no limits on stabilizers. My distance vision forces me to go there so I can use a lens and I am old enough actually too dam old. My shop guy recommends 2x the weight on rear than on front does that sound reasonable


Here's a formula George Ryals suggests:


> The formula for finding the rear rod weight is Length x weight, or length of your long rod multiplied by the weight on its tip. You will then divide that number by the length of your rear rod. For example I have a 33” B‐Stinger XL Premiere on my Hoyt Contender, and I have a 12 inch side rod. I have 5 oz on the end of my long rod, so 33” x 5oz = 165”oz. I will divide 165 by my side rod length (12”) and I arrive at 13.5oz.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Remember that GRIVs formula is a STARTING point....your still going to need to play with things to find what you need. The formula may get you dead on but probably not....and it may change also after you get used to shooting the weight you have.

The formula used to be rather close for me. But not really anymore....it also matters where you have the side bar located.

For example...I run a 33" and 12" bars. But most people run their side bar off the front of the bow, however I run mine off the back so I have the same balance as a bow with a 15" bar coming off the front. I have 6 oz on the main bar and 18 oz on the side rod. The formula says I should be at 16.5 oz with the 12" bar. My bow will not hold right if I use less then 18. But it also holds better if I run more then 18 but I ran out of weight :chortle: If I run the formula using a 15" bar which is closer to what I am actually using....It gives me 13.2oz there is not a chance that would work.


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Hey guys,

I just had a guy tune my and another guy from the PSE Pro Staff also test out my bow. They both said that my bow pulls to the right, he recommended a stabilizer offset from PSE. Is this my only option? or are there better options for this problem?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Chopayne said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just had a guy tune my and another guy from the PSE Pro Staff also test out my bow. They both said that my bow pulls to the right, he recommended a stabilizer offset from PSE. Is this my only option? or are there better options for this problem?


Pulls to the right? It must need an alignment.

I assume they mean they fight the level when they shoot it. Do you?



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

tmorelli said:


> Pulls to the right? It must need an alignment.
> 
> I assume they mean they fight the level when they shoot it. Do you?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Im sorry the actual words were "right side heavy" Does that make it any more clearer? And no I haven't tried it out yet, its being shipped to me.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Chopayne said:


> Im sorry the actual words were "right side heavy" Does that make it any more clearer? And no I haven't tried it out yet, its being shipped to me.


Then wait and see of YOU are happy with it. 

FWIW, I run a side rod on every bow I own.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Most right-handed bows are right side heavy because the sight and other things are mounted on that side. Thats why you need more weight on the left side to balance it out.

Any weight system will work. It doesn't have to be a PSE brand. lain:


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## Chopayne (Mar 2, 2013)

Well im talking about a offset stabilizer. I have a Nap Apache stabilizer, but the guy was recommending that I get a offset. Guess ill see when I shoot it.


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## MrBobo (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm pasting this email from another thread, but it's supposedly the IBO's stance on this:

"Colt,

Thanks for your concern over the new stabilizer rule. We have had several phone calls from those who are trying to read more into the rule than the actual simplified meaning. After reading your email, I believe you understand the rule completely. The photos you attached look to be examples of legal set-ups as long as none of them measure longer than 12" from the attachment point... (the Hoyt leaning against the wall looks a little long). 

The intent of the rule was to allow manufacturers some leeway in building Hunter Class stabilizers and to make the rule simple to understand and easy to enforce. I believe we accomplished at least two of the three objectives. It probably would have been better if the word "system" was added to the rule so no one would think we are only going to allow one cylindrical shaped object. 

If you explain the rule by saying, "the stabilizer or stabilizer system can be any shape or configuration as long as it has one attachment point to the bow and it does not extend more than 12" in any direction from that attachment point", I believe most will understand it. You can also explain the way we are going to enforce the rule, which is by measuring 12" in any direction from the point of attachment. As long as no part of the stabilizer extends beyond 12", it is legal. The portion of the rule that prohibits "additional vbars, counter balances, or weighted attachments", is there so these things cannot be attached somewhere else on the bow besides the stabilizer location.

I hope this helps and that I didn't muddy the water any further!

Have a great day!

Bryan J. Marcum
IBO President
Email sent using Atmail - Email, Groupware and Calendaring done right "


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