# Indiana IDNR survey: Help move the gun season back!!!



## Booner1331

I like it just the way it is.......... we start moving things and changing things.

within 10 years everythings leased up......... if you want to pay to hunt move gun season and make it shorter. I hope you like public land

I know IL most good private land is leased up....... a lot of the better counties in OH the same.

Plus you shorten the gun season....thats less revenue for the state, they will may that up by raising the fees on the other license.......

IMO


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## archer0545

I respect your opinion but I disagree. I think the biggest change you will see will be in the quality of the deer harvested. People are still going to gun hunt even if the season is moved back a week or two so i don't think the revenue for the state will be affected. The sales in archery tags is likely to go up which would offset any changes. As for leased ground, it's inevitable. It's coming and there's not much anyone can do to stop it. Changes to the gun season aren't going to change that. 
Indianas quality of bucks is vastly inferior to both Illinois and Ohio, and it is largely due to the very liberal gun seasons. It needs to change and I frankly am glad to see the state is finally listening. To each his own but I think this is definitely a good step!


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## trapperDave

Indianas deer "quality" is NOT inferior to ohio or illinois.

IF youre an Indiana hunter, take the survey, vote the way YOU want.

IF you aint a Hoosier, leave OUR survey alone, please.

see more discussion here, 
http://www.hoosierhunting.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/forum/1.html


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## Main Beam

*PUSH BACK GUNSEASON and REDUCE NUMBER OF GUN HUNTING DAYS = MORE MATURE BUCKS FOR EVERYONE TO HUNT*


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## indiana redneck

Main Beam said:


> *PUSH BACK GUNSEASON and REDUCE NUMBER OF GUN HUNTING DAYS = MORE MATURE BUCKS FOR EVERYONE TO HUNT*


*Exactly what he said.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up*


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## GRR10211

Booner1331 said:


> I like it just the way it is.......... we start moving things and changing things.
> 
> within 10 years everythings leased up......... if you want to pay to hunt move gun season and make it shorter. I hope you like public land
> 
> I know IL most good private land is leased up....... a lot of the better counties in OH the same.
> 
> Plus you shorten the gun season....thats less revenue for the state, they will may that up by raising the fees on the other license.......
> 
> IMO


Couldn't have been said any better. :thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

Things are perfect for me left as it is.


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## trapperDave

indiana ******* said:


> *Exactly what he said.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up*


NOT gonna happen. State wants MORE deer killed.


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## GRR10211

archer0545 said:


> and it is largely due to the very liberal gun seasons.


Many midwestern states have as many or more total gun days than Indiana.


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## Booner1331

trapperDave said:


> NOT gonna happen. State wants MORE deer killed.


Moving gun season is gonna kill more deer?? how??

you kill more deer by making antlerless permit cheaper to get..... 

and cheaper to be processed...not a state problem I know

I have lifetime license, and I'll only kill maybe 3-4 deer.... why?? I'll fill my freezer, maybe 2-3 if that. then I'll give 1-2 away if someone wants meat. but its $60 or more to have one processed.... again not states problem I know.

and then it's $25 bucks for antlerless permits if your buying them... more people would buy extra if they were discounted


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## rodney482

I filled it out.


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## dhayse32

Indiana currently allows a total of 32 days a year to gun hunt...that is way to many days. Even if you cut it down to 24 days each season, that is still so much better than its current setup. Something needs to be done, I just hope the DNR gets this right!


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## Rothhar1

The DNR is not doing this poll for buck harvest or getting more to maturity they are doing this to have a gun season right in the middle of bow season and or the week before buck gun season so lets just see how you guys like it after the guns have been sounding off at does only right be for the week later buck gun season or right when the bucks start to travel and begin marking in OCT. 

This is once again is not about moving back gun season to preserve bucks it is to put pressure on a growing doe / herd .Stay tuned more to come after the questionnaires are done !:thumbs_up


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## archer0545

Indiana has quality deer in places but the overall average is vastly inferior to what Illinois, or Ohio have and it's due in large part to the dates of their gun season and the smaller number of days. This is easily verifiable with a little research. 
As far as Indiana wanting more does harvested my personal opinion is that reducing the cost of the tags for antlerless deer is the key. That option is also on the poll. There are plenty of ways to reduce the overall population without the gun season being as early or as long as it is.
Either way, it's your right to be herd so get on there and fill it out!!!!


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## Redemption

Just filled it out to keep the status quo. :amen:


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## fxdwgkd

People are wanting to get the gun seaseon moved out of the prime of the rut. This way the archery community has it all to themselves. That is what it sounds like to me.


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## stinkysbuddy6x5

*survey*

bump


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## Scarlet Dew

Scarlet Dew said:


> Again...........here is the link to fill out..........
> 
> http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm


Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt*


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## Redemption

fxdwgkd said:


> People are wanting to get the gun seaseon moved out of the prime of the rut. This way the archery community has it all to themselves. That is what it sounds like to me.


That's exactly what it is. I Bowhunt 90% of the time but I don't want to cheat my friends that gun hunt only. The only reason to move the firearms season and shorten it is a self serving one for the Progressives club. Don't let them fool you for a second that it has the "health of the herd" in mind. 
We see where the progressives are taking our country, they want to do it to our deer season now as well.


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## archer0545

The Gun hunters in Ohio and Illinois do just fine and they do so killing larger bucks than Hoosiers on average. Illinois and Ohio both have higher quality of bucks and this is one of the main reasons why they do. Nobody wants to take away the rights of the gun hunters, but in the end they will be shooting better quality animals than what they are now, and that is a fact.


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## freezertech

archer0545 said:


> The Gun hunters in Ohio and Illinois do just fine and they do so killing larger bucks than Hoosiers on average. Illinois and Ohio both have higher quality of bucks and this is one of the main reasons why they do. Nobody wants to take away the rights of the gun hunters, but in the end they will be shooting better quality animals than what they are now, and that is a fact.


We are a top 10 state consistantly every year. Some years we rank better than Ohio and Illinois and some years we don't. Tell me again how this isn't about screwing the gun hunters?


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## Scarlet Dew

freezertech said:


> . Tell me again how this isn't about screwing the gun hunters?


Ummmmm...............wasn't it the last umpteen years of the missuse/misplacement of our 32 days of gun hunting that got us into this mess??

Get *your* facts straight please........


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## freezertech

The state is consistantly in the top ten and occasionly the top five so tell me again what's wrong with the current placement of gun season. When moving the gun season fails to produce all those big bucks people like you promised would be hiding behind every tree with the OBR then what's next?


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## Crimefighter

GRR10211 said:


> Many midwestern states have as many or more total gun days than Indiana.


This arguement cracks me up.

You are correct, but you know what the BIG diffeence is.....their gun season starts later than ours.

There is more to it than the amount of days in a gun season. Time of year is more important in my mind, which is one reason why Iowa can get away with it.


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## willie

Crimefighter said:


> This arguement cracks me up.
> 
> You are correct, but you know what the BIG diffeence is.....their gun season starts later than ours.
> 
> There is more to it than the amount of days in a gun season. Time of year is more important in my mind, which is one reason why Iowa can get away with it.


" their gun season starts later than ours."

Nooo..

I got one word for you... KENTUCKY

#2 in B & C by square miles, which is the only fair way to make a comparison.

Guess what? Their season is just as long as our's and they time it to coincide WITH THE RUT.


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## Crimefighter

willie said:


> " their gun season starts later than ours."
> 
> Nooo..
> 
> I got one word for you... KENTUCKY
> 
> #2 in B & C by square miles, which is the only fair way to make a comparison.
> 
> Guess what? Their season is just as long as our's and they time it to coincide WITH THE RUT.


Have you seen what Kentucky looks like? Lots of un-inhabited area with plenty of places to hide. Therefor.....live longer, which equals better age class.

Kinda like why southern Indiana is always at the top for P&Y and B&C kills. Do you see a theme here?


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## willie

Crimefighter said:


> Have you seen what Kentucky looks like? Lots of un-inhabited area with plenty of places to hide. Therefor.....live longer, which equals better age class.
> 
> Kinda like why southern Indiana is always at the top for P&Y and B&C kills. Do you see a theme here?


You are wrong,

Most of their trophy class bucks comes from western KY. Looks a lot like Indiana. Lots of farm lands and bottom ground.


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## Scarlet Dew

*Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.*


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt *


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## archer0545

One more time!


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## Scarlet Dew

*Again.........here is the link for the survey...........fill it out to make a GREAT difference in this state.*


http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5904.htm

***Move our gun season out of the rut
**Shorten our excessive 32 days of gun season
**Give hunters incentive to keep our antlerless population in check
**Give incentive to recruit/keep more hunters in the sport with more mature deer to see/hunt *


LAST DAY TO FILL IN THE SURVEY!!!

Was at a rally/meeting we had up here in Northern Indiana about this survey in the past few days. The momentum behind our IDNR for possible changes is *TREMENDOUS*. The hard work that has been done over the last year with our NRC comments, submitted proposals, e-mails and phone calls has worked..........A new Era in Indiana is upon us.


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## goathollow

I have expressed my opinions in previous posts and it is not my intent to fuel the debate anymore; it seems to have a life of its own already. 

But...I wouild like to add something here.

This past Friday, I had the pleasure of spending about 2 hours with on of the IDNR field biologist walking my property talking about a habitat recovery program he is helping me with (note: if you own ground and want help managing it for wildlife the IDNR is happy to help and sometimes there are funds to help you with food plots etc). The conversation eventually turned to the proposed changes and I learned a lot listening to him. Please note that this is a "field biologist". He is actually in the woods doing the work. He makes recomendations for his district but the bureaucrats in Indianapolis make the final decisions...some he agrees with and others I suspect he doesn't. This particular biologist is not a spring chicken. He's been around awhile and has a very practical (not theoretical) knowlege of wildlife management in Indiana.

Here are a few things I learned. I have italicized those parts that are just my opinion.

1.) The train has left the station regarding whether or not the regs on deer hunting in Indiana will change. They will change PERIOD. The State Legislature has told the IDNR to either reduce the deer population in Indiana or they will take the right to manage the deer herd away from them. So if you are upset that the laws are changing, blame the lawmakers not the IDNR. They are doing the best the can with the hand that has been dealt to them. Oh and by the way....the legislature is their boss. So who do you suppose the legislators are listening to? The hunters or the special intersest groups like the farmers and insurance companies?

2.) Given that the IDNR has unilaterally been commanded to reduce the population of whitetails in Indiana the IDNR is trying to find a way to balance the needs of hunters (who love the burgeoning deer herd) and the needs of landowners/farmers and motorists (who hate the burgeoning deer herd). They are trying to find solutions knowing the following to be fact:

a.) approx 3% of hunters in Indiana kill 3 or more deer
b.) approx 27% of hunters in Indiana kill 2 deer
c.) the reamaining deer hunters kill one or no deer.
d.) on average nearly 50% of all the deer killed in Indiana are killed on opening weekend of gun season
e.) most hunters prefer to hunt in fair weather or said another way the number of hunters in the field drops off as the season progresses into late Nov and Dec.
f.) despite the increase in the number of doe permits available in most counties a and b above haven't change significanty over the last 5 years. at the same time deer populations continue to increase in almost every county in Indiana.
g.) based on hunter surveys and biologist field survey (actually counting deer in the wild) they know the buck to doe ratio has improved in most counties since the OBR was enacted. However because most hunters kill only one deer (see d above) and most hunters still prefer to kill a buck the doe population has not come down as much as hoped.
h.) they believe that the primary impediments to getting hunters in Indiana to kill more deer are a.) the cost either from tags or processing and b.) storage/freezer space and c.) no outlet for donating deer for the poor/homeless etc (this may still be a cost issue related to processing) 

So what can be concluded by the IDNR from these facts:

1. Increasing the number of hunting days will not increase the harvest; The current set of hunters in Indiana is already killing all the deer they want to kill.
2. to reduce the number of deer you either have to a.) recruit more new hunters and/or get the current set of hunters to kill more deer. Recruiting more hunters is an educational thing. Getting the current set of hunters to kill more deer may hinge on a.) lowering the cost of tags and b.) creating an outlet for donating deer by inacting incentives to get processors to process donated deer. c.) creating hunting days when the weather is more acceptable to those that only hunt during fair weather. d.) get gun only hunters, or people who don't like guns interested in hunting with other weapons such as archery/bow and arrow. The discussion about inclusion of the crossbow clearly is an effort to capitilize on this under utilized resource.

I concluded several things after talking with the field biologist.

1.) The IDNR is in an unenviable position of having to make two competing parties both happy or have a major part of their jobs taken away from them by lawmakers who know little to nothing about wildlife management. In the end they have little chance of making either side happy....let alone both sides.

2.) Without doubt, the question of whether or not the deer hunting regs are going to change has been answered. They are going to change. All the knashing of teeth, name calling, spear chucking, laying blame and bickering is not going to change that. The edict has been sent down from the mount!

3.) We hunters are up against powerful foes. The special interests (we hunters are a special interest too by the way) that want to see deer numbers be lower are big, have lots of money to line the coffers of politicians and they undoubtably have the legislators ears. 

4.) if we want deer hunting in 5 years to in anyway resemble the positive hunting experience we all enjoy today we need to join forces as one common voice. Our only hope at this point is for the regs to be inacted in such a way that we can preserve most of what we have in the way of a deer hunting tradition in Indiana. Again, make no mistake the number of deer in Indiana will come down one way or another, lets make the "way" something we can live with.

5.) if we want to accomplish #4 above we all need to understand the social impact of too many deer. The deer herd in Indiana is not just a resource for hunters and wildlife enthusiasts. It is a social problem that effects hunters and non-hunters (not to be mistaken with anti-hunters) alike. The non-hunting public has an equal right to live, work and enjoy life as we hunters do. We MUST find a balance. 

6.) We hunters have the opportunity to either be a part of the problem or part of the solution. If we do not elect to be part of the solution then we risk losing the quality deer hunting experience we have today. Don't get me wrong, I don't think deer hunting will go away completely, it just won't be like it is today.


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## spec

Great post goat!


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## pasoawe

This is a good discussion.It is helpfull to me.


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