# What is "good" finger shooting?



## luckyhit (Dec 8, 2006)

Finger Shooters Forum,

I need some help here. Basically, I am totally confused when I see talk about shooting 38" bows with fingers. I'm still a little confused when I see talk about shooting 40" bows with fingers. Especially with 65% letoff. More than 65% letoff just makes it impossible for me. Bottom line, I can shoot short bows worth a heck.

Guys say the bows shoot good. Maybe my problem is that "good" is different in different cases. With my 46" Hoyt, I can shoot x's at 20 yards, 75% of my arrows. Shooting my Oneida Strike Eagle, I can shoot 5's, 75% of the time. Shooting my 40" Hoyt, I can hit the wall 100% of the time, that's the best I can do.

40" is way too short for me to shoot split fingers, so much pinch I can barely let go of the arrow (28" draw). I shoot 2 or 3 fingers under. That barely works.

Is somebody out there shooting short bows (40", 39", 38") and actually hitting the spot? How the heck are you doing that?


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

*finger bows*

pearsonally i hunt with a 39in bow and target with a 42in bow and still shoot 1 figer over and 2 under with no pinch at all i have even shot 36 in bows with no problems the big thing when it comes to finger pinch people over look is the brace height on the bow. some of the bows you listed you should have no problem with.another thing to consider is are you using a glove or a tab? a glove gives more pinch than a tab. and a tab will help improve your accuracy. i suggest a black widow tab. i have used these for over 20 yrs with great success.good luck, dan


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## Robert58 (Oct 5, 2002)

*ata*

What most people don't understand is that ATA by it's self doesn't mean a hole lot. I started back into Archery 5 years ago with a Martin Firecat that I bought in a Pawn Shop. It had 3 1/2" oval Energy Cams. Those cams at full draw swing up and give the 40 1/2" bow an effective 44" ATA at full draw. I sold the Firecat and bought a used 2002 Martin Cougar Elite with Fury Cams. With the 00 Fury cams for 26 AMO draw lenght it has 41 1/8 ATA with 7 3/8 braceheight. It has noticeably more finger pinch that the Firecat. It took me about three days to get used to it. The only way I can shoot it consistantly is to hold my fingers close together and let them pinch the string. I shoot with a Bateman stayput tab with spacer, Cordovan leather face.

There is another thread going now, talking about having Ross build the perfect Finger bow and he wants a 40" ATA on it. When you look at the pictures of a Ross bow, the cams look like they are at least 5" in diameter. Those cams at full draw would probably give the same finger pinch as your Hoyt at 44" ATA with round wheels.

I am thinking about putting Martin's Nitrous cams on my Cougar. They would increase the effective ATA on my bow by at least 3".

Robert


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## Donhudd (Sep 21, 2002)

Draw length has a great deal to do with finger pinch also. The longer the draw , the greater the finger pinch.


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## Jorge Oliveira (Aug 13, 2004)

There's also the cam type. Shooting harder cams is not the same as shooting wheels, and almost all short bows have hard cams.

With wheels, one adjust draw length so at anchor the wheels are in the middle of the (long) valley, and a bit off to any side doesn't matter much.

With hard cams, DL must be carefully adjusted so at anchor the cams are hitting the stops and make sure there's no creep at release time (I think 'back tension' is the name here).

When I can do it right, I'm deadly accurate with the Command cams, but just a bit of miss concentration or becoming tired and arrows are all over.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

I put two brass nocks on the string, I have cut my tab so that the gap in the leather fits on the outside the two brass nocks. I draw with three ,one over and two under then drop off the bottom finger.


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

Luckyhit what is good shooting to you? For me good shooting for fingers is a 300 on a NFAA 5 spot indoor target or an average of 9.2 points at a 3-D shoot with score rings of 10-8-5. I was shooting a Hoyt Protec XT 2000 limbs set at 60 lbs. 65% let off at a 28.5" draw. I also was shooting a Trophy Ridge Dropzone Freestyle rest. This rest works great but needs a good stiff arrow. I also shoot with two fingers under the arrow but I draw with three. I drop my index finger as I come to full draw settle in and pull my fingers off the string. I like a hard wall to pull against and I keep pulling until the arrow hits the target. For me in indoors shooting a 297 and up was OK and I am always after the 300s. Outdoors I needed to put the arrow into a 2 inch circle at 30 yards 8 out of 10 arrows. At 60 yards I needed to be within a 6 inch circle every arrow in 50 arrow practice session. Now these are my standards and at the height of my finger shooting 2 years ago I shot 7 300 NFAA 5 spot targets in 2 weeks. I was also shooting over 1000 arrows a week.


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## luckyhit (Dec 8, 2006)

BugZ,

What you're shooting is better than good for me. I feel pretty good with mid 280's (actually real good). If I could get into low 290's I'd be ecstatic.

After hearing what you're doing with that protec xt2000, my challenge is to figure out how your doing it. I got the same advice on hold and release from another very succesful shooter via email after my post.

I get the draw with 3, hold with 2 picture. But, how do you anchor? Getting rid of that top finger gets rid of my normal anchor. The fella that emailed me anchors with his index finger before he drops it.

Thanks for the reply. What you're doing accuracy wise is what I'm trying to figure out how to do.


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

I do a lot of close range shooting in my shed. I shoot at 9 feet. I concentrate on my shot not where the arrow goes. 75% of my shooting is done in the shed. I am going to look for some pictures to show you my form. My anchor point is simple for me. I put the web between my thumb and index finger in the corner of my jaw bone. The thumb lays under the jaw and the index finger would touch just under the corner of my lip. Now pull back and keep pulling until your hand hits the top of your shoulder. Also keep looking at the spot you want to hit. I can watch the arrow go into the spot.


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

Here's another angle.


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

A back shot


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

BugZ, 

Great pictures! I have two queations. One, when shooting with two fingers under do you set the tiller on you Protec even for both limbs or off on the top limb? Two, what arrow, tip weight and length are you using?


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

DD 
On my Protec I have found it likes an even tiller. I did find that it wanted a higher nocking point though. 

The arrow in the picture is a Gold Tip Hunter 55/75 100 gr. tip with blazers. I believe that arrow was 29". It was a 400 gr. arrow. Indoors I used a 29" 2413 Easton with a 145 gr. tip with feathers. I also had good luck with a Easton Epic 400 at 28.5" with an 80 gr. tip. I Believe it was about 370 gr.


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## skynight (Nov 5, 2003)

I shoot with two under also - but I open my hand up and put my thumb back under my ear. This gets the index finger behind the string. I found that the string would hit the index finger on release occasionally otherwise.


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## susitnaak (Jan 3, 2004)

*anchor*

Lucky, Thanks for the kind words, If i knew how to set up a picture, i would look just like bug, there. I,m just i tad higher with my anchor, He did say 1000, arrows a week, Thats what it takes, to get up there into those high scores, Also i do use a kisser botton, J.


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

I anchor with the first knuckle of my thumb right under the angle in my jaw bone......very solid and repeatable.......(basically puts your index finger at the corner of your mouth).....

Also, this lower anchor really helps to keep a very straight line from your bow-hand all the way back to the tip of your elbow of your drawing-arm.....contributes to a smoother, cleaner release and follow-thru....:thumbs_up :darkbeer:


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

After looking at Bugz pictures again. It looks like the second finger is very relaxed, almost one finger under? How do the Pros shoot one finger under and could you almost shoot a mechanical release setup (short 37" ata and light arrows 300 grains)? Or do they?

Bugz, do you let your bottom finger slip off the string as your pulling thru the shot (back tension). I can see how close range practice would help get things very consistent, as stated above. The cleaner the release the smoother string oscillation on the back of the arrow.


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

DDSHOOTER said:


> After looking at Bugz pictures again. It looks like the second finger is very relaxed, almost one finger under? How do the Pros shoot one finger under and could you almost shoot a mechanical release setup (short 37" ata and light arrows 300 grains)? Or do they?
> 
> Bugz, do you let your bottom finger slip off the string as your pulling thru the shot (back tension). I can see how close range practice would help get things very consistent, as stated above. The cleaner the release the smoother string oscillation on the back of the arrow.



If you look at some of the FITA shoots who shoot with two under the lower finger does appear to be just resting on the string. With me it appears that way but I know there is pressure there. Not much just enough to help hold. When I release I like to pull into the wall hard. I have to maintain a push/pull holding so I don't collapse. I am concentrating on the target so much most times I don't feel or anticipate the release of the string. I know that when I close my eyes and consciously feel my release I can feel the fingers relax and allow the string to pull them off. Watching video of myself there is a split second when the string is gone but my fingers are still at anchor. I cannot feel this, it happens so fast but I will always come back to my shoulder with my hand.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

This is what I have been practicing on but my setup is so critical that if I do not just that, then my shots are not very consistent, a few rights and lefts. I have had a couple of 3Ds with 9.2 and 9.4 per target scores. But only a couple, so, I may have to switch back to a Heavier arrow and 65% let off (slow things down a bit). It sure been nice shooting 3ds in the 290 -300 fps range.


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

luckyhit said:


> Finger Shooters Forum,
> 
> I need some help here. Basically, I am totally confused when I see talk about shooting 38" bows with fingers. I'm still a little confused when I see talk about shooting 40" bows with fingers. Especially with 65% letoff. More than 65% letoff just makes it impossible for me. Bottom line, I can shoot short bows worth a heck.
> 
> ...



Luckyhit,

I know where you're coming from.....I think much of the "confusion" comes from the fact that 90% of guys that are fairly new to archery (5 years or less), have NEVER shot bows over 40" in length.....so they don't realize HOW MUCH finger-pinch they are getting with sub-40" bows.....

It's true (of course) that huge cams will effectively reduce string-angle at full-draw, but sometimes not as much as is often believed......

I let a guy shoot my 47.5" ATA RedMan/Barnsdale (Tri-Star wheels, 55% let-off).....previous to shooting my bow, he thought he was getting no finger-pinch and shooting decent groups with his 38" bow.....he was amazed at how his groups shrunk at 20 yards and how smoothly his fingers slipped from the string with that long Barnsdale! :thumbs_up  

The frustrating thing about 95% of todays compounds is that finger-shooter's are forced to try and "fit a round peg in a square hole".....they are using equipment that is designed for release-aid shooting and trying to "make it work" for a shooting-style it was never designed for to begin with........:thumbs_do


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## jhart75609 (Nov 8, 2005)

Bugz.....I'm interested in the Dropzone Freestyle. I have one here to put on my Bowtech Constitution. (Well after Santa comes Monday) I've never messed with a drop away before, any tips? I've always shot the "traditional" finger rests in the past, star hunters, springies etc.

I also shoot two fingers, but I pull with all three below the nock, and drop my bottom finger. I rest the string between my last knuckle and the tip of my finger, and pull through from there. Shot 300's years ago, but "sat out" for about 10 years and I'm "hung up" in the low 290's now. Hoping that Dropzone will help me find a couple of points.

Good solid wall on the Bowtech is nice!


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

On the Dropzone I will start another thread. 

DD I have yet to shoot in speeds of 290 and above. I have too short of a draw and poundage to get there but I like bows with the capable of being there. I don't know if it is still to fast or maybe too sensitive.


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## jhart75609 (Nov 8, 2005)

Bugz The 290's I was talking about 5-spot scores. When I shot years ago my G-force shot about 285 FPS, and I think the Bowtech does about the same. I worry more about how it shoots than how fast it shoots.

Thanks for the Dropzone info. It may be a couple of weeks, but I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## BugZ (Feb 28, 2004)

Jhart the speed comemt was for DD. 

As far as your scores go knowing you can be that accurate is key to being that accurate. Good Luck and keep us posted.


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