# Levi Morgan execution



## Iowa shooter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbJO6u0mLJ8&feature=youtu.be

A lot of what he says sounds very similar to Padgett.


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## Padgett

Holy crap, I just went to youtube and found that video and watched it. I had forgotten how important that short little video of him talking really was, not only did it give me permission mentally to continue learning and tweeking my knowledge but it has allowed me to reach thousands of shooters and get them up and running.

I think one of the most incredible things is when I had some of my top ten finishes in open a at the asa shoots this season shooting really strong and after the shoot was over some of the guys that I have worked with here on archery talk would beat me in open a and stop me on the way to the truck and tell me about how good they felt and how they were firing their hinge and just shooting so strong. 

One of the guys I met at the lancsters booth and he was looking at hinges, his name is Travis. I gave him a thumbs up on a longhorn advantage hinge and I mentioned that he should pm me here on archery talk and I would give him my Hinge setup routine, it seems like every couple months Travis will stop me and want to tell me of the new things he is learning and usually he has beat me again.

Just buying a hinge isn't the answer to you becoming a great shooter but it is the first step, then getting with one of us guys that has already been down the road and learned the lessons is the second step. Right now on archery talk is a great time to be a new hinge shooter because things are readily available if you want to get started.


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## Jaliv92

Tagged


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## Lazarus

This is an outstanding video with great information. Four minutes that makes total sense. 

In an effort to live peacefully with other archers who don't agree, I'll keep my sarcasm in check. 

Thanks for posting it.


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## erdman41

Lazarus said:


> I'll keep my sarcasm in check.


Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin.

Imagine how much better he'd be if he would shoot jis hinge correctly.


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## EPLC

erdman41 said:


> Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin.
> 
> Imagine how much better he'd be if he would shoot jis hinge correctly.


Yea, poor Levi... * "...and I became really good friends with these guy's, the really top shooters, then I started realizing nobody used back tension..." * All I can say is there will be some feathers ruffled over that statement. I think I got it word for word...


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## possum trapper

ruffle them feathers


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## unclejane

making the popcorn now....

LS


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## cbrunson

I find the straight line comment to be the best as far as the release goes. I struggled with that for a long time.


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## bowfisher

Lazarus said:


> This is an outstanding video with great information. Four minutes that makes total sense.
> 
> In an effort to live peacefully with other archers who don't agree, I'll keep my sarcasm in check.
> 
> Thanks for posting it.


Me too, but its going to be hard.


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## Lazarus

^^ No lie. I'm pretty sure I could light this up with just one comment, really struggling here. :zip:

I will refrain considering the more friendly tone of this whole discussion since about five or six days ago. 

Back to topic, did I mention that this was a really good segment? It really is.


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## patriot338

I remember that day at the Lancaster booth like it was yesterday. Shawn Padgett's help and a lot of practice has sure made me a better shooter. He knows what he is talking about. Usually when I am in a slump I will surely look Shawn up and pick his brain.


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## mikesmith66

cbrunson said:


> I find the straight line comment to be the best as far as the release goes. I struggled with that for a long time.


I think that was one of the most important things in that video also. I have shot a hinge since 1995, and always struggled with the "squeeze the shoulder blades together" to fire the release theory. I always pulled off the X when I did that. Things started to click when I learned to let my hand and fingers take care of the release rotation.


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## sharkred7

And here I read the thread topic and thought some executed Levi:wink:


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## EPLC

EPLC said:


> * "...and I became really good friends with these guy's, the really top shooters, then I started realizing nobody used back tension..." * All I can say is there will be some feathers ruffled over that statement.


I'm thinking this needs to be taken one step further. Years ago George Ryals told me not to worry about BT and "just put straight back". Just recently, I posted the Alistair Whittingham quote "It's not what they do, it's them trying to put into words what they do. Hence the idea of back tension is invented . The Levi video just confirms this even more. While this may actually work for some, I'm beginning to think that this is more the exception then the rule. I do know this, the topic of BT has sold a lot of books and made a lot of $$$ for quite a few folks that promote it. The list goes on and on...

As for myself, I feel cheated for wasting so much time trying to mimic this elusive BT methodology. As Levi pointed out you can't "pull straight back" with a motion that forces a rotation. I've had alignment issues as a result my entire archery life. Just recently I've come to understand what I was told so many years ago. "Just pull straight back"... back then I was so wrapped up in my physical issues (the tremor) I couldn't get my head around it... This may be coming a tad late, but THANKS GRIV! 

As far as BT goes, I'm thinking for the most part it's just BS. I speak from my own experience and not for anyone else. Do what ever makes your boat float; just don't push anymore Kool-Aid in my direction, I've had my fill.


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## erdman41

The only time I enjoyed pure back tension was when the cable stop fell out of my spiral cam and I didn't notice. Have never been able to mimic that feeling with the stop in. So I changed how I execute my shot.

So when the bows changed some people changed how they shoot with the changing technology. Some (including the one everyone is waiting to comment on this thread) did not IMO


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## ron w

well, .... the definition of "back tension", has surely and clearly been assigned to the use of your rhomboids, whether in drawing the bow, or producing the rotation for release. if you are pulling with your rhomboids,....you are using "back tension".
I believe the term "back tension", was around, and universally used, long before Allistar said that. 
as far as "nobody used back tension".....I'll wager his words refer to "rotational back tension", as used in producing the rotation to fire a release. with the newer bows and their very hard walls , it can be hard to accomplish, so the process has actually morphed in pulling straight back and producing the rotation with your hand. never the less, if you are pulling with our rhomboids , you are using back tension. I think it's safe to say, that the pros do pull with their rhomboids. I don't think that the lack of being able to describe what they do, was responsible for the "invention" of the term , "back tension".


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## Lazarus

EPLC said:


> I'm thinking this needs to be taken one step further. Years ago George Ryals told me not to worry about BT and "just put straight back". Just recently, I posted the Alistair Whittingham quote "It's not what they do, it's them trying to put into words what they do. Hence the idea of back tension is invented . The Levi video just confirms this even more. While this may actually work for some, I'm beginning to think that this is more the exception then the rule. I do know this, the topic of BT has sold a lot of books and made a lot of $$$ for quite a few folks that promote it. The list goes on and on...
> 
> As for myself, I feel cheated for wasting so much time trying to mimic this elusive BT methodology. As Levi pointed out you can't "pull straight back" with a motion that forces a rotation. I've had alignment issues as a result my entire archery life. Just recently I've come to understand what I was told so many years ago. "Just pull straight back"... back then I was so wrapped up in my physical issues (the tremor) I couldn't get my head around it... This may be coming a tad late, but THANKS GRIV!
> 
> As far as BT goes, I'm thinking for the most part it's just BS. I speak from my own experience and not for anyone else. Do what ever makes your boat float; just don't push anymore Kool-Aid in my direction, I've had my fill.


The real problem is; people feeling the need to put things into verbal terms, to explain something so simple in a complicated way. That has been the reason this discussion (for years) has been a contentious one. 

Here's an example, I have read it on this forum, it was said something like this; "I rotate my elbow down and around using back tension" to get the release to fire. That's not word for word, but it's close. Here's the thing, that could be a very accurate account of the *sensation* the shooter is trying to duplicate. But in reality if that were happening it would have adverse effects on the front end of the shot just as Leviticus pointed out in the video. 

It's very simple, you lock the bow at full draw with your back, you fire the release by either relaxing the hand to provide hinge rotation, or you squeeze the hand to provide hinge rotation while you *maintain* tension in your rhomboids. There are tons of ways you can accomplish the "letting go," but every technique falls into one of those two categories (relaxing or squeezing.)


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## cbrunson

Lazarus said:


> The real problem is; people feeling the need to put things into verbal terms, to explain something so simple in a complicated way.


Agree 100%

Voodoo sells.


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## Reverend

Hmmm. Just when I was getting the hang of contracting the back, now I learn I'm doing it wrong, yet again. 
Chalk it up to yet another "iron-clad" archery rule that has been debunked. 
Probably need to simply shoot the shot that works for me whether it's acceptable to the "powers that be" or not... orthodox or not... 
Rotate vs. pull... command vs. surprise... straight arm vs. bent arm... and so on. Pick what works for you AND JUST...
SHOOT THE SHOT!!!


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## Reverend

I think these un-orthodox statements and methods by the pros are sometimes thrown out there to work on the psyche of us lower tier shooters. Brillliant strategy if you ask me. Keep your upcoming competition second- guessing themselves and their shot routine, and you've pretty much eliminated them from the competition.


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## Lazarus

Reverend said:


> Hmmm. Just when I was getting the hang of contracting the back, now I learn I'm doing it wrong, yet again.
> Chalk it up to yet another "iron-clad" archery rule that has been debunked.
> Probably need to simply shoot the shot that works for me whether it's acceptable to the "powers that be" or not... orthodox or not...
> Rotate vs. pull... command vs. surprise... straight arm vs. bent arm... and so on. Pick what works for you AND JUST...
> SHOOT THE SHOT!!!


There's a lot of us that have been saying that since 1970. :teeth:

I don't think there's a conspiracy here Reverend. I believe most of the Pro's know there's a real slim chance that a large number of people are going to want to put in the time that they have. And that's what it takes. Lots of quality practice, you do that, you'll find what of all those things you mentioned is best for you. Then those Pro's will have raised the bar because in the time you were doing that, they were all getting better too. 

I'm saying that tongue in cheek. But I believe it's pretty accurate.


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## SonnyThomas

Lazarus said:


> The real problem is; people feeling the need to put things into verbal terms, to explain something so simple in a complicated way.


I just haul back and shoot. What's complicated about that? 

Daniel Boone's thread on the hinge/Pros, and a Pro did reply, relates of "cheating" the hinge by many.

If, big IF, back tension worked well for me it was with my Hoyt ProElite. When I went to limb stop bows, Martins and Pearsons, I hit a wall, the hard of these bows.
I've read a ton of back tension articles/books and much stored in my computer and I have a Padgett Library in my computer. Padgett's information helped, but I still never gained the confidence to use a hinge in competition again. Only once using a hinge in league competition and scored a 299 on the 5 spot and worried the whole time through and exhausted after. Both mentally and physically exhausted.

Not helping matters of going strictly with a hinge is I do well with a thumb release. I carry and use a hinge for "chip" shots and haven't missed yet, but then no real pressure either. Worst finish for last year was 4th in a ASA State Qualifier. 

Still using my Padgett Library and info here, I've tried the relaxing of the index finger of late. Weather has been uncooperative and I have family health issues more important. For what I've tried with my hinges, relaxing the index finger gave off target impacts (expected), but near one hole performance. I can't remember shooting 3 arrows back to back for a ragged hole and "worry" on the brain at the same time. So something to tear into once the weather turns better and my father back to home. I do have a close by indoor range I can use, but this archery shop has terrible indoor lighting, just 7 miles from home.


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## cbrunson

One man's "cheating" the hinge may be another man's standard operating procedure. If he's drilling Xs using the cheating method, is he wrong? If he's winning at almost every venue, is he doing it wrong?


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## Iowa shooter

At Vegas last year I heard Chris Shaff say he pulls straight back. He made the shoot off.


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## SonnyThomas

cbrunson said:


> One man's "cheating" the hinge may be another man's standard operating procedure. If he's drilling Xs using the cheating method, is he wrong? If he's winning at almost every venue, is he doing it wrong?


Read Daniel Boone's Thread and you'll know why I have cheating in quotes.....


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## cbrunson

SonnyThomas said:


> Read Daniel Boone's Thread and you'll know why I have cheating in quotes.....


Is it a mystery I can only solve by reading that thread? Or can you just come out with your point right here?


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## Garceau

The point Sonny is making is - What is cheating? If you can consistently put up great results in any method is it cheating the release? Its not like a test where you are going to fail.

Many ways to fire any release.


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## Lazarus

Garceau said:


> The point Sonny is making is - What is cheating? If you can consistently put up great results in any method is it cheating the release? Its not like a test where you are going to fail.
> 
> Many ways to fire any release.




What we really need is less vague archery terms rather than more. I've shot a release of some kind for about 45 years. I can honestly admit that I don't know what "cheating" a release is. I've read the topic that Sonny pointed out several times. I don't off the top of my head recall who talked about "cheating." Doesn't really matter. As far as I'm concerned there's two catagories of "release." That would be surprise and command. Is "cheating" a command release? If so, I know what that is. Even though I've never done it.


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## SonnyThomas

Garceau, yes. What the Thread pointed out what was "real" back tension and then using other means used by Pros. So it was; "How can you call it cheating if people are winning?" 

Eric Griggs posted a few times; Here's one http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1676924&p=1063132905#post1063132905


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## cbrunson

Garceau said:


> The point Sonny is making is - What is cheating? If you can consistently put up great results in any method is it cheating the release? Its not like a test where you are going to fail.
> 
> Many ways to fire any release.


Ok, that is in line with what I said before. I didn't know why he asked like maybe I was supposed to discover something different. Thanks


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## Garceau

You will hear many of the "old timers" talking about release execution with a hinge. You will hear them say "don't cheat that release" It must be fired with your rhombroids/back tension only. Manipulating your fingers on the release is cheating......

that's where I ALWAYS heard that term.

5 years ago - I think MOST shot with the traditional method of firing a hinge. Now I am seeing more and more go away from the traditional teachings/methods.


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## bghunter7777

Morgs is a real solid dude seems like a guy I'd like to have a beer with in camp.


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## Mahly

I still think it's simply an adaptation of a release designed when we had very mushy backwalls, to be used with modern bows with firm, and even rock solid back walls.
Hinges used to rely on the bow "giving". that doesn't really happen anymore, so the the hand must give, or alternately, force a rotation.
You must have movement to fire a hinge. if the bow won't give it to you, you must get it elsewhere.


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## RCR_III

Well said, and my feelings as well. It's an adaptation, as with many things today.


Mahly said:


> I still think it's simply an adaptation of a release designed when we has very mushy backwalls, to be used with modern bows with firm, and even rock solid back walls.
> Hinges used to rely on the bow "giving". that doesn't really happen anymore, so the the hand must give, or alternately, force a rotation.
> You must have movement to fire a hinge. if the bow won't give it to you, you must get it elsewhere.


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## Padgett

The one thing I would remind you guys is that the biggest issue that most of us have is our accuracy, I started shooting many 59x rounds and then my first 60x rounds back when I had no idea what I was doing and to me shooting a 60x at the time was my ultimate personal goal and I had every intention of continuing to do things exactly the same way and saw absoluetly no reason to make any changes. Compared to my shooting level right now I absolutely sucked back then, the methods that I was using simply didn't work when I shot with other people in pressure packed scoring rounds or shoot downs. I even had a really hard time from day to day reproducing my shot from day to day and during the same scoring round, many times I had to change my entire shooting method during my scoring rounds to even finish.

I have been a good enough shooter for a long time to simply shoot and hit a x, hitting a x isn't the problem. Learning the lessons to get to the point where executing shots for hundreds if not thousands of shots in a row exactly the same way without a lot of mental strain doing so is my current goal and I am almost there. For me I really think it is a matter of getting rid of garbage and baggage that I have been carrying along all these years that was weighing me down. By simply getting rid of all of these issues and cleaning up my form and thoughts shooting a bow has never been easier, things are just becoming so clear to me now instead of feeling weighted down with thoughts that slow me down and create stupid decisions and poor executions.

I am so glad that everyone got to see the video of levi, I strongly encourage you to do some youtube videos of him like at presleys or other shoots where you can watch him up close and you aren't going to see him doing much rotation but you will be able to see a very good shooter running a smooth and subtle engine with a hinge that he is pulling with all fingers and you already know that he is pulling straight back and rotation is being helped a little by his fingers. Once you see him doing this with this it is one of those moments where things in your brain start happening:

1. I need to get my hinge set up correctly

2. I can let go of the brakes that purists have put on my hands and they can be a part of the process.

3. I can shoot a hinge and be honest about how I am doing it and not get bashed here on archery talk.

Get to youtube and watch him and chance and open up your minds.


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## Mahly

Here's another version of a deliberate rotation in a firing engine.
Don't think I'm ready to try this one yet, but DANG if it don't work for him!

http://youtu.be/Q19nn_nCZVI


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## ron w

I can shoot a hinge by deliberate rotation, too. the whole idea is to not "have to" do it that way, by developing what it takes to not cheat it off. when you do it right, it takes very little effort to execute a good shot. 
there's always going to be times when you do, just like there's always going to times when you just don't seem to shoot the way you know you can, and some times when you actually do a little of both. the more time you spend, not deliberately rotating, the better you'll shoot, and the better you'll do >>>more importantly...under the pressure of competition. 
and of course, there is always going to be someone who can do it well deliberately, but the numbers of those people are far out weighed by the numbers of people who shoot well, by not deliberately rotating their shots off.
some people see one example of someone doing deliberately, and think that it can be done by everyone, all the time. that's simply not true. the process and execution of rotation through back tension, has been developed over many years , many years ago, into a method that can be done by everyone,....that's why it is the accepted standard.


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## EPLC

Lazarus said:


> ...It's very simple, you lock the bow at full draw with your back, you fire the release by either relaxing the hand to provide hinge rotation, or you squeeze the hand to provide hinge rotation while you *maintain* tension in your rhomboids. There are tons of ways you can accomplish the "letting go," but every technique falls into one of those two categories (relaxing or squeezing.)


Over the past couple of months I've completely rebuilt my shot. The Levi tape sealed the deal for me. I've always known I've had an alignment issue but could not find a permanent solution. The problem has always been pulling myself off line during the execution process. I had gotten to the point where I accepted my hold wasn't all that wonderful and I had to work around it by paying no attention to it. While this did work to a certain extent, my shooting was not going to get any better than it was, no matter how many hours I put into "any" training philosophy or method. I know now that I was simply pulling too hard with the wrong muscles. I now feel I've identified the path I need to take and I'm already seeing some tightening of my float. I can actually hold much better now than I thought was possible. 

The face pictured below was shot today from 20 yards. It represents my first 6 arrows out of the 12 I shot. I only used BT to maintain the hold, not to execute the release. My bow arm was very relaxed and my release was rotated by a combination of squeeze and relax. I'm using a clicker so I'm relaxing the thumb on the peg to the click and then applying a slight squeeze to the middle and ring finger while trying to relax the index (I'm still working out the exact details). After these six I missed 3 X's in a row because my back got involved. I found that when the back is involved in the execution it's impossible to stay on the spot. I was able to get back on track and shot for about an hour after this with very good results. Needless to say, I'm feeling pretty confident right now in my new direction... and for those that think 69 is older than dirt, well lets just say I'm doing Ok.


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## Lazarus

There ya go EPLC. Good stuff. Keep it up.


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## cbrunson

Padgett said:


> The one thing I would remind you guys is that the biggest issue that most of us have is our accuracy, I started shooting many 59x rounds and then my first 60x rounds back when I had no idea what I was doing and to me shooting a 60x at the time was my ultimate personal goal and I had every intention of continuing to do things exactly the same way and saw absoluetly no reason to make any changes. Compared to my shooting level right now I absolutely sucked back then, the methods that I was using simply didn't work when I shot with other people in pressure packed scoring rounds or shoot downs. I even had a really hard time from day to day reproducing my shot from day to day and during the same scoring round, many times I had to change my entire shooting method during my scoring rounds to even finish.
> 
> I have been a good enough shooter for a long time to simply shoot and hit a x, hitting a x isn't the problem. Learning the lessons to get to the point where executing shots for hundreds if not thousands of shots in a row exactly the same way without a lot of mental strain doing so is my current goal and I am almost there. For me I really think it is a matter of getting rid of garbage and baggage that I have been carrying along all these years that was weighing me down. By simply getting rid of all of these issues and cleaning up my form and thoughts shooting a bow has never been easier, things are just becoming so clear to me now instead of feeling weighted down with thoughts that slow me down and create stupid decisions and poor executions.
> 
> I am so glad that everyone got to see the video of levi, I strongly encourage you to do some youtube videos of him like at presleys or other shoots where you can watch him up close and you aren't going to see him doing much rotation but you will be able to see a very good shooter running a smooth and subtle engine with a hinge that he is pulling with all fingers and you already know that he is pulling straight back and rotation is being helped a little by his fingers. Once you see him doing this with this it is one of those moments where things in your brain start happening:
> 
> 1. I need to get my hinge set up correctly
> 
> 2. I can let go of the brakes that purists have put on my hands and they can be a part of the process.
> 
> 3. I can shoot a hinge and be honest about how I am doing it and not get bashed here on archery talk.
> 
> Get to youtube and watch him and chance and open up your minds.


Good stuff. I've seen some rediculously far rotation on some of them. One such individual I know changes his heat settings often to reduce anticipating the shot. Kinda goes against the "learn through repitition" fundamental, but it really builds on the surprise release concept.


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## SonnyThomas

Coming up on 66 and I plan on whipping some "pups" come 3D season.

E, yes, seems if I get too much back tension that pin wanders. Don't know exactly what goes on, but have back down, let down or forget it, the shot won't be there..... Still, cold, coat and the hard stops aren't helping. Got time to shoot just a few more shots and see if something is there I'm missing.


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## jelmore

So I have been shooting a hinge for about 10 days now. I was trying to shoot it with "pure" back tension, no conscious manipulation of the release hand. I went from a dime size hole (from 8 yds) with my thumb release to a vertical strip cut through my bullseye targets (the 2 inch sticky kind). I'm guessing this this was from the inconsistent pull that he is talking about in the video. Last couple of days have been using the Padgett "squeeze the middle and ring finger" and have definitely noticed my grouping close way up but as soon as I started doing this method my arrow started hitting 2 inches right but all within a quarter sized hole.


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## cbrunson

Lazarus said:


> There ya go EPLC. Good stuff. Keep it up.


X2

The benefit is that you know what you did to get those six in there. If you can get six, you can get 12. Don't stress on the misses too much right now as they will come. If you know what went wrong, you just try to get back to what went right on the next one.

I have way of thinking similar to Padgett in that regard. Even though I am just getting near the 60X level, I will blow off the misses and look at what is going right, and try to build on that. The target below is an example of that. It was my last one from singles league in December. The three misses were stupid mistakes that I knew were misses as soon as the release went off. That is just time behind the string problems in my opinion. What made me happy about the target, was the 50 inside out Xs I shot, not by accident. They were all well executed, albeit not “properly timed” shots. Of the seven Xs that were not inside out, only three were more than a half shaft out. That’s how I look at it going forward. Build on what is working right. Keep reinforcing it. When it seems to stall out, first make sure you haven’t strayed from what it was that was working, and then make small minor adjustments to see if you can improve on what works. And shoot that way for a month before changing things again. It takes me at least a few days shooting to get used to something different. Release styles take much longer.


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## SonnyThomas

SonnyThomas said:


> Coming up on 66 and I plan on whipping some "pups" come 3D season.
> 
> E, yes, seems if I get too much back tension that pin wanders. Don't know exactly what goes on, but have back down, let down or forget it, the shot won't be there..... Still, cold, coat and the hard stops aren't helping. Got time to shoot just a few more shots and see if something is there I'm missing.


It's damn cold out. Sun was shining and kind of nice the first two times I was out and just in, 12 degrees.

Okay, at full draw I had to relax, let the tension go, but just held with back tension. The pin stayed in the center of the bull's eye and the X got hammered and hammered almost exactly in about a 25 cent piece hole. Now, this was holding on target and "letting" back tension do it's thing, not really increasing, and the shots went off when they went off. Some were "immediate" and others seemed longer.

Too much back tension and the pin wandered and the shot too low or too high.

Also noticed my bow. Relaxed, the bow tipped forward...smoothly. Too much tension the bow more lifted and end of stabilizer going left before tipping forward. 

And the wife, feeding her chickens; "You're nuts."


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## EPLC

cbrunson said:


> The benefit is that you know what you did to get those six in there. If you can get six, you can get 12. Don't stress on the misses too much right now as they will come. If you know what went wrong, you just try to get back to what went right on the next one.


Yes, I do know and this is big! I feel I can repeat anytime I want to... and this is with a new release as well (although I've been shooting a lot of arrows since I got it.) Of course this isn't something that I have built a lot of automation into yet but that will come. I mentioned in another thread that I've switched to a large dot and each day I've reduced the size a tad. It's only been a couple of day and I still need to go a little smaller but I'm really liking the dot. My hold had gotten to the point where I had to shoot through a 5/8" hole in a nylon washer to shoot. Now that I'm holding better the dot is just so much more precise. BTW, nice target.


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## EPLC

With regard to shooting with BT: Even Bernie Pellerite doesn't claim that the back tension release is the best method... or the only method. His "claim" is simply that it is the best for the average Joe because not everyone can execute with the precise hand motion of a pro. Personally I don't agree with Mr. Pellerite. The issue with using BT for execution, which hasn't been really addressed by those supporting it, is the alignment issue. You can't get around it. If you use BT to rotate the release, you also create unwanted rotation in the system. In my case it pulled me off target... fought this for years. As a result, I had to introduce extra tension in my bow arm which then effected my float. Like a domino effect, one thing after another was messed up by trying this. And then feeling that I was doing something wrong when I didn't seem to be magically cured by this method. I tried, really tried. No more BT for me, been there done that, doesn't work for me. The sad part is this myth about BT has been promoted by less than stellar performers at an alarming rate. Oh my God! He moved his hand... scold, scold, scold. Do you have any idea how screwed up this gets people? 

...But if this method is what works for you, keep at it. I found a better way.


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## [email protected]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jasYq5boXTdM

True Ball seminar, 2015 ATA
at 47:40 Jake states that archery is about being lazy. Do the least amount of work to gain the most amount of control.
Worth a look. Thanks True Ball/Axcell


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## JASpring

Craig beat me to it in the last post...this year's ATA TruBall video is a perfect example of what it takes to be successful with a hinge or a trigger (thumb and index), not what it takes to be successful with "backtension." It's about finding "your process," so that could be pure backtension, it could be yielding and relaxing like Jesse, or like it was said in the video, there are rotation guys on tour, even if it isn't the "right way," it can work. 

We discuss this so much on the forums and I really enjoy hearing everyone's own way of doing it, Padgett's firing engine articles have been a great resource to many, but the point is, people are successful with and without "rhomboid tension increase/building," we all just have to work with the release process (especially the hinge), find what works for us, and understand we might really suck before we get incrementally better. Just my take.


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## SonnyThomas

My post, #45, remember, I use a thumb release. There is a difference.


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## AKeith

Does anyone have a link to the full video or seminar that the clip came from?


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## Padgett

I went to the bowjunky and they were both right there since they are so recent.


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## JASpring

The archery talk YouTube channel has the seminar also.


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## EPLC

*Levi method*

I shot my league this evening so this was the first time using the new process in a competition. Tonight was 450 night and I shot 443 23X with all my misses coming on target face #2. I was determined to shoot only quality shots so my letdown count was very high. I only had 1 end without a letdown and most ends had several. Not much has gotten to the automated state yet so I was very happy with tonight's shooting.


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## cbrunson

Good shooting! Looks like you are improving now.


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## Padgett

Eplc, even I have to deal with the good and the bad and for me last night was a weird night of shooting. I showed up and right from the start my entire system felt weird and I ran decent shots but I just wasn't warming up very good. Another shooter that I shoot with had showed up and we were talking a I just didn't feel right so even though all but two of my shots were dead center I had 3 misses and on those shots they felt as good as the other ones but were a good half inch out of the 10 ring. Instead of freaking out and being upset I just backed off from talking to my buddy a little and focused on slowing down a little and then my whole body kind of did a reset and my good executions showed back up and I was able to enjoy my shooting for the rest of the evening.

Right now you have been in a transition phase of trying many things and for you to be able to 100% trust your current method is going to be a few weeks into the future so when I hear you use the maturity to focus on execution and enjoy a scoring round it is promising news when I know that you really don't probably have that 100% trust yet. But by focusing on your execution every shot and enjoying a shooting session like you did hopefully your new found approach is going to be something to be proud of.


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## AKeith

Ive seen the 5 min clip from Levi but is there a video or clip from the entire seminar... I don't think this was at the tru ball one... that one I have a clip to but could be wrong.. where was this one and is there a full video?


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## JASpring

Here's the link for the ATA shooting seminar 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsYq5boXTdM


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## AKeith

This is the link to the Tru Ball video... I'm trying to find the full seminar that the Levi Morgan clip was taken from...


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## JASpring

Best I can do...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JbJO6u0mLJ8


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## acesbettor

Heard him say the same thing at Lancaster this past weekend. Best part about it was when he referenced the 20 page thread on here about it ! Lol!


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## tbay

Tag


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