# ASA K50 question???



## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

(1) The Mckinzie contingency money was dropped from the K50 class, and that left little money in the class. So people don't want to shoot in the K50 because there is no money in it. (2) ASA dropped the entry fee from $200 to $125 (not at the request of the people that shoot the class I might add) and by dropping the entry fee, ASA made the class a semi-pro/amature class. And that caused the class to lose even more contingency money. (3) The ASA move up rules do not encourage shooters to move into the K50 either. (4) And with ASA making the K50 a semi-pro/amature class, it is harder to get the Pro NFAA/Field/Fita shooters to come shoot the class. Even though few have came and shot the K50.

Also, I want all the big name dot shooters to come shoot in this class. What a better way to legitmize the class as a Pro Known class than to have all the best shooters in it. And I want to compete against the best too.

bigGP, I sent you a PM a couple of weeks ago. Have you given it any thought?


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## Jr. G Nockman (Mar 1, 2010)

K 3D is for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqLgyvX7duw It would be natural assumption such guys would go for K45 over K50.. If ASA came out with a K40 or K35, thats where these guys would flock and you would have no one in K50 or K45.


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## JC280 (Jul 22, 2002)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> K 3D is for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqLgyvX7duw It would be natural assumption such guys would go for K45 over K50.. If ASA came out with a K40 or K35, thats where these guys would flock and you would have no one in K50 or K45.


Nice real nice! Who cares if it is known or unknown. YOU don't have to shoot it.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> K 3D is for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqLgyvX7duw It would be natural assumption such guys would go for K45 over K50.. If ASA came out with a K40 or K35, thats where these guys would flock and you would have no one in K50 or K45.



Come on now bro thats NOT what this is about.Thats just trying to start a fight and it is NOT gonna happen.I asked a real question and i want the REAL answer and its not that 3d shooters are like you say.I am sure some people cherry pick or sandbag as we have discussed before but my questions is for someone to say Trail is shooting in the K50 and over half the people bail is weird to me so i asked?


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*Have you ever tried known 3D ?*



Jr. G Nockman said:


> K 3D is for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqLgyvX7duw It would be natural assumption such guys would go for K45 over K50.. If ASA came out with a K40 or K35, thats where these guys would flock and you would have no one in K50 or K45.



Do you shoot spots or have you tried known distance 3D? I have an assumption of what type of shooter you are but I will let you explain yourself first. What class do you shoot in? Does known distance scare you ? I know unknown distance can hide an archers flaws they blame bad shots on not knowning the distance.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

n2bows said:


> (1) The Mckinzie contingency money was dropped from the K50 class, and that left little money in the class. So people don't want to shoot in the K50 because there is no money in it. (2) ASA dropped the entry fee from $200 to $125 (not at the request of the people that shoot the class I might add) and by dropping the entry fee, ASA made the class a semi-pro/amature class. And that caused the class to lose even more contingency money. (3) The ASA move up rules do not encourage shooters to move into the K50 either. (4) And with ASA making the K50 a semi-pro/amature class, it is harder to get the Pro NFAA/Field/Fita shooters to come shoot the class. Even though few have came and shot the K50.
> 
> Also, I want all the big name dot shooters to come shoot in this class. What a better way to legitmize the class as a Pro Known class than to have all the best shooters in it. And I want to compete against the best too.
> 
> bigGP, I sent you a PM a couple of weeks ago. Have you given it any thought?




I spoke to blair about it and considering that the K50 class HAD a fair contingency last year and WAS growing and was literally reduced to a single digit participation class we are gonna hold off and see what the ASA and the current sponsors can do to get it back to where it was just last year. that class would draw some spotties if it paid as you said or what i heard it did last year until the big dot shoots started up anyway. 

But if that does happen is the same thing gonna happen.........Jesse B,Cuz,wills,willet, etc show up to shoot the K50 and pretty much every other guy (Like this last weekend) jumps down to another class so as to NOT have to shoot against them??? Thats my question and the reason for this thread to find out if that mentality is real or just perception? In our side thats not a real issue because everything is MARKED and we feel we can SHOOT with anyone as long as you tell us how far it is.LOL


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## Jr. G Nockman (Mar 1, 2010)

yes I shoot field and unknown 3D. if it was up to me a shoot would consist of a Unknown 20 target ASA style 3D round and a 14 target NFAA Field round.
Bulls eys are for known distances.the spirit of Rubber deer is to simulate hunting conditions and should be shot from unknown distances.
So you afraid your gonna mis judge by a couple often enough and shoot a few 8s? I mean whats the point? I realise to be a well rounded archer accuracy and distance judgng are both important skills.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

I suppose most know their limitations and what they are capable of shooting. They see guys in a class that tend to dominate and they know they are not capable of beating them. It's all about winning, $$$, and recognition. Just like anything, you go where you might win then most $$.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> K 3D is for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqLgyvX7duw It would be natural assumption such guys would go for K45 over K50.. If ASA came out with a K40 or K35, thats where these guys would flock and you would have no one in K50 or K45.


And the broken record repeats.


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## IlBuckMaster (Nov 14, 2005)

Just curious...

Did any of these guys who jumped off the ship actually win any money in K45.

Sounds like a mass protest for having pros shoot in this class or something. Did these guys know each other and hang together?

And it is starting to look like the pros are using this class for easy pickings or something. When you have one or two different pros roll through the class at each shoot - it is hard to believe there is not some kind of coordination going on. 

Why does the ASA allow these guys to switch classes and then switch back at the next shoot?

Maybe the guys felt they were being fleeced by pros who won't compete against each other - who on here really knows?


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## Jr. G Nockman (Mar 1, 2010)

the ASA is full of sandbaggers.I guess with all the flooding and hurricaines alot of guys have had the practice? Pros shooting K anything? Pros shooting 35" ata bows? I just dont know anymore? 
Why doesnt the ASA get those cheap realty type signs made out of corragated plastic and metal frames that you can stick in the ground at get printed on to say what you want to say.

the ASA can stick these right in the backs of the 3D targets with the ranges on them and a sponsor like Nikon Rangefinders or Red Eye String Cutting peeps or whatever printed on them ?


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## kkromer (Sep 14, 2004)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> K 3D is for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqLgyvX7duw It would be natural assumption such guys would go for K45 over K50.. If ASA came out with a K40 or K35, thats where these guys would flock and you would have no one in K50 or K45.


Just to clarify - you think that guys that shoot the Known distance are what you're youtube video says? 

Kind of discouraging to see one archer saying that about another...


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

bigGP, What I heard from most of the guys that I talked too. Who was shooting the class had nothing to do with why they moved to the K45. It was because there was no money in the K50 anymore. In the begining the K50 was created to bring the big dot shooters into ASA. So I don't know why the current ASA shooters would drop out of the K50 when the dot shooters did start showing up. I don't understand why someone would not want to shoot against the best shooters out there. How are you going to improve if you keep shooting against people you can beat all the time? Heck I learned a few things this past weekend shooting with Keith Trail that I hope will take my game a notch higher. Then hopefully at the next ASA Pro-Am he will be chasing me on Sunday.


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## Jr. G Nockman (Mar 1, 2010)

kkromer said:


> Just to clarify - you think that guys that shoot the Known distance are what you're youtube video says?
> 
> Kind of discouraging to see one archer saying that about another...


your on the Easton shooting staff and your shooting in an ASA K(kindergarden) Class


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> your on the Easton shooting staff and your shooting in an ASA K(kindergarden) Class


You've made your juvenile point well known. Give it a rest.


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## kkromer (Sep 14, 2004)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> your on the Easton shooting staff and your shooting in an ASA K(kindergarden) Class


I am shooting k45. And have had some success in the class. 3-D is where I cut my teeth shooting and last time I checked my archery resume was pretty solid (probably part of the reason I'm on staff with the companies that I support and that support me). I just don't like to practice distance judging - I like to shoot. All kinds of rounds, indoor, fita, field. Now my family life demands much more time and I don't have the extra to practice judging, so I just shoot.

The thing is, guys that choose to shoot one class or the other shouldn't have another archer bashing them because of where the choose to shoot.


Good luck Jr. G Nockman


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> your on the Easton shooting staff and your shooting in an ASA K(kindergarden) Class


It's *you're* and *kindergarten*. At least get the elementary level grammar correct if you're going to insult someone's level of competition with an elementary school reference. 



The K classes are a great way for spotties to participate and remain competitive in 3D while allowing for time to focus on other archery disciplines. I think I'm going to shoot K45 this year if I make time for an ASA shoot between field and fita shoots. :darkbeer:


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## IlBuckMaster (Nov 14, 2005)

I checked the scores on the ASA sight this morning.

I could not find one person that jumped from K50 to K45 this weekend - let alone six. So if there were six people that signed up and then jumped - they had never shot K50 before.

There was one participant that jumped from K50 to 45 - but at Uchee Creek, not Texas.

Sounds like a rumor with no merit.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> yes I shoot field and unknown 3D. if it was up to me a shoot would consist of a Unknown 20 target ASA style 3D round and a 14 target NFAA Field round.
> Bulls eys are for known distances.the spirit of Rubber deer is to simulate hunting conditions and should be shot from unknown distances.
> So you afraid your gonna mis judge by a couple often enough and shoot a few 8s? I mean whats the point? I realise to be a well rounded archer accuracy and distance judgng are both important skills.



So, what you're saying is that if archers do not agree with your philosophy on how to participate in archery, then they are douche bags.

When you shoot 3D, I'm assuming you do it ONLY with full hunting equpiment? No long stabilizers, no moveable scopes, no target colors? 

When you hunt, you don't use a range finder or know the distance to the expected location of your game. You instead, instinctively range every target you acquire, right?


If you don't like the game and the fact that the ASA provides classes for people that choose to shoot whatever discipline they like, then spend your money and go start your own organization. Then you can make the rules you like and further alienate all the archers you think are douche bags.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I personally feel that the K50 class was doomed to fail from the very beginning. The intent was to lure some of the big name spot Pros over to 3D. GREAT IDEA!!! Lets see Jesse, Reo, Scott Starnes, Shane Willett, Dave Cousins, ...etc have it out on a 3D course. Could be GREAT entertainment. Where ASA stepped on their own collective self is scheduling the Classic, the National Championship of ASA, opposite the NFAA Nationals. 

Why would an NFAA Pro dedicate shooting time to more than 1 or 2 ASA events when they know in advance that they aren't gonna be at the Classic, and won't be Shooter of the Year??

I think the concept behind the K50 class was great, it just lacked a little planning when it came to practical application.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> Bulls eys are for known distances.the spirit of Rubber deer is to simulate hunting conditions and should be shot from unknown distances.


It would be delusional and foolish to say that the spirit of 3D or rubber deer is to simulate hunting conditions. It is a competitive archery game only.

Furthermore, no self respecting ethical bowhunter would ever take a shot at a deer without knowing the distance.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

N2Bows- Hey Big Orange good shootin this weekend. Congrats on the finish.


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## shooter74 (Jul 7, 2005)

*omg*



Jr. G Nockman said:


> your on the Easton shooting staff and your shooting in an ASA K(kindergarden) Class


bring your candy azz to the asa and shoot the k-45 or k-50 . you will be crying all the way home. its not that easy you still have to make the shot.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

IlBuckMaster said:


> I checked the scores on the ASA sight this morning.
> 
> I could not find one person that jumped from K50 to K45 this weekend - let alone six. So if there were six people that signed up and then jumped - they had never shot K50 before.
> 
> ...



incorrect. i spoke to Keith and he said when he went back to check right before they went out to shoot the K50 was down 7 shooters to a whopping 5 participants.He asked why and was told the very "rumor" you seem so quick to dismiss. Keith is a great guy and a awesome shot so its a bummer for him to come all the way then have over half the class bail.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> your on the Easton shooting staff and your shooting in an ASA K(kindergarden) Class




LMAO are you serious??????


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## rangeplayer (Sep 11, 2003)

*My response!*

I hate posting anything on this web site because of the kind of responses you get from some re-re's.

ANYWAY HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Check your rules before you make a BS remark. I think the ASA rules read something like this. If you are a "PRO" in any orgainzation and want to shoot 
3D marked yardage you have to shoot the K50. Ummmmmmm, I guess thats why I shot it last year.

Now at the start of the new year, the entry was reduced and the Delta money was taking out of it. For what ever reason the money was gone. Now its not, so Im back shooting it. Enough said??????

I respect everyone I come in contact with, maybe thats what they call up bringing. Not sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is unless you get me backed in a corner. Soooooooooo, what ever this youtube stuff is WOW man not sure if you are wanting to go there with this, your call. "K kindgergarden" man ole man. I guess the only thing I can really say to that is step up to the plate and lets see what YOU have to offer.

Bottom line, do we really just have to bash everyone? Why cant you just answer the mans question and move on. If you dont have a answer then you really should not just sit there and try to stir the pot.


Hope everyone has a GREAT evening.


Keith Trail


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## greimer (Feb 13, 2007)

Yes the yardage is know...but there is a game to be played within the 40 targets...do you shoot for a 10 or 12 or try for a 14. Lets say you shoot for a 14 and miss, and get a 5. Now you are down 5 points down and have to make that up..again you have to choose which one you want to shoot do you try to get it all back or do you play it safe. If you talk to alot of the guys that shoot half know and the other half unknown...most do better on the unknown. I usually shoot the unknown better


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

rangeplayer said:


> I hate posting anything on this web site because of the kind of responses you get from some re-re's.
> 
> ANYWAY HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...




pretty much keith. I am getting the outdo bow rolling so the next asa i come to guess what..................... LETS GET IT ON!!! it might just be you and i from the way it appears? (BTW shooting for big 10's and some 12" aint gonna be how i roll LOL) if they cant get it back rolling the way it was last year i am pretty sure i will be able to get some of the fellas to come play but right now it just wont happen.

The ASA will NEVER get the spottie big doggs to come play all year when they put the classic on top of the NFAA outdoor nationals that have been on the last week of that month for like god knows how many years??? if i dodnt know better i would say none of the people who schedule the NFAA/IBO/ASA shoots have a phone or email because they just cant seem to figure the schedule thing out??? 

Jr G nockman- tell you what man.........when i come to the asa with my bow and Mr,Trail and myself roll out to shoot come find us and let me know how much help you need with the K50 entry fee and i am sure we can round up some donations so you can come play in the sand box with us kindygardners. LMAO


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## keyman (Mar 22, 2003)

Keith,
Thanks for posting and continuing being the gentleman you are. It does show your up bringing as well as we see others also. 
Glad to see you back shooting and hope the K50 does grow back to last year or bigger. Would love to see all the classes get a little added money but the K50 really needs it. 

Good luck the rest of the year and thanks for posting on here even though you know what most of these guys are like that hide behind their monitors. I have lots of them at the place I work also. Talk big while they are hidden.


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## Buck JR (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey BigGP I will donate towards his entry fee. I would be willing to make a side bet also. I bet Mr. Youtube wouldn't shoot even. Anybody that hates on something that much does it for a reason. I bet the range finder on foam has given him issues. When you hit low on unknown you just misjudged the range. When you hit low on known you just made a poor shot.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

I will donate to his entry fee also ! It is so easy it scares most shooters to death !


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

*I will donate also*

I will donate to his entry fee also ! It is so easy it scares most shooters to death !


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## 1BadBulldog (Jul 23, 2007)

i am trying to decide between K-45 and K-50 i am by no means a pro but thinking i could really pick up some pointers from the likes of Cuz Dave and mr Trails some times it is not about the winning but bettering your self and making good freinds along the way i myself am wanting to get to the Pro level and my thinking to shoot better shoot with better shooter not taking anything away from the other classes of corse 
JMO


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

1BadBulldog said:


> i am trying to decide between K-45 and K-50 i am by no means a pro but thinking i could really pick up some pointers from the likes of Cuz Dave and mr Trails some times it is not about the winning but bettering your self and making good friends along the way i myself am wanting to get to the Pro level and my thinking to shoot better shoot with better shooter not taking anything away from the other classes of course
> JMO


Keith Trail is one of the nicest guys you can find in the archery world. I have learned much from him, some of it when he didn't know I was paying attention. 

Oh and BTW, he shoots pretty good too.


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

1BadBulldog said:


> i am trying to decide between K-45 and K-50 i am by no means a pro but thinking i could really pick up some pointers from the likes of Cuz Dave and mr Trails some times it is not about the winning but bettering your self and making good freinds along the way i myself am wanting to get to the Pro level and my thinking to shoot better shoot with better shooter not taking anything away from the other classes of corse
> JMO




Thats how its done right there!!!! props to you! i had to "donate" for a few years until i was able to work my way up the food chain.Keep up that mentality and you will get better fast!


All right folks here we go!! Looks to me like we could have JR G nockmans K50 entry fee covered by the time i come to the next ASA??? so lets keep it up and see if Mr, Nockman even replies to this thread again and accepts everyones gracious offer.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

bigGP said:


> Thats how its done right there!!!! props to you! i had to "donate" for a few years until i was able to work my way up the food chain.Keep up that mentality and you will get better fast!
> 
> 
> All right folks here we go!! Looks to me like we could have JR G nockmans K50 entry fee covered by the time i come to the next ASA??? so lets keep it up and see if Mr, Nockman even replies to this thread again and accepts everyones gracious offer.


My $$$ is on JR Nockman being freakishly quiet now that he/she has been called on the carpet.. 

I read some of the many many many posts the Nockman has tossed out in the recent days/weeks. For such a short term of membership and having such opinions, something tells me that Nockman is a re-birth of another member account probably long since banned or spanked for pot stirring..


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## bigGP (Dec 9, 2002)

JawsDad said:


> My $$$ is on JR Nockman being freakishly quiet now that he/she has been called on the carpet..
> 
> I read some of the many many many posts the Nockman has tossed out in the recent days/weeks. For such a short term of membership and having such opinions, something tells me that Nockman is a re-birth of another member account probably long since banned or spanked for pot stirring..




i will give him/her the benefit of the doubt and ASSUME they will take us all up on the generous offer to raise enough funds to cover his/her entry fee into the K50 so he/she can show us all how its down. I am waiting a response from Nockman but you may be correct i didn't even think about that?? LMAO


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Get Mathews, Hoyt and PSE to each pay 3 or so of their spot shooters to shoot the K-50 and it may help draw some others. I know at the LAS Classic there are a lot of guys shooting with the big dogs that don't shoot "Pro" type scores.

Hindsight is 20/20 but now it seems obvious to me that the K-50 as a "Pro" class with a "Pro" entry fee wouldn't fly. Think about it, is it worth a Pro spot shooters time and effort to shoot at most 7 shoots a year that are totally different from what they are paid to shoot when they are already heavily booked? 'Cuz said he was only going to shoot a couple because of conflicts....


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## DaddyPaul (Oct 24, 2003)

GP,
Mark me down for a twenty spot on the entry fee. 

I'm seriously thinking of switching to FS gear and if I do I am no doubt going to shoot K45. I just don't have time to work on judging yardage with two small kids that participate in everything under the sun.

I wouldn't mind mixing it up with some of the big dogs either, they put their drawers on just like I do, least when I get my ass spanked I can say I got beat by some pros.


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## peter rogers (Nov 1, 2008)

bigGP said:


> Thats how its done right there!!!! props to you! i had to "donate" for a few years until i was able to work my way up the food chain.Keep up that mentality and you will get better fast!
> 
> 
> All right folks here we go!! Looks to me like we could have JR G nockmans K50 entry fee covered by the time i come to the next ASA??? so lets keep it up and see if Mr, Nockman even replies to this thread again and accepts everyones gracious offer.


do you have to have a pro card or simi pro card to shoot in this class? or is it open to all? Take up the entry fee for me and i would be honered to shoot with you in the k 50


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

I shoot the K50 class myself! I've had the honor of getting a serious beat down by some really good shooters this year! Been working on the shot the last couple of weeks! Look out in Augusta boys!

As far as the complainer is concerned, come on out and see what it's about before you knock it! You might just learn something! LOL!


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## ttripp (Jun 7, 2004)

Spoon13 said:


> Keith Trail is one of the nicest guys you can find in the archery world. I have learned much from him, some of it when he didn't know I was paying attention.
> 
> Oh and BTW, he shoots pretty good too.


that right there is a fact folks.

Keith is one of a very few pro's who actually gave me his cell number a few years back and offered up his time and advice anytime I needed to chat or pick his brain(AND HIS BRAIN IS PRETTY KNOWLEDGEABLE) about things I am struggling with or just questions in general.

heck, I might even just have to come take my beatdown in k50 in augusta as well, I can get beat there just as good as anywhere....


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

peter rogers said:


> do you have to have a pro card or simi pro card to shoot in this class? or is it open to all? Take up the entry fee for me and i would be honered to shoot with you in the k 50


The class is OPEN to anyone that wishes to shoot the class.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I think you might just have somethin' for them guys, Pete.


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