# Nationals 3 day vs 5 day



## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

Now you can shoot 3 or 5 days at nats. to improve your score on the field and hunter rounds. what if you had to give up your first round in order to shoot taking your second no matter what the outcome ,would you do it????


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Of course..... It wouldn't matter to me one way or the other 

But I do like the 5 day format.... I wouldn't have a problem with it being a 5 day shoot only....with no option of throwing out your two low rounds


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## DHawk2 (Feb 18, 2007)

Even though I haven't been, I like the 3-5 day option. If I am going to travel a good distance to a National shoot I want to shoot all I can. Personaly the first round or 2 I will be nervous. This way I can get that over with and still have a chance to post a decent score(for me). I don't see me making it to the other side of the country in the next 2 years to shoot BUT, as long as I am still interested, I will be at Mechanicsburg in 2012


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2009)

Well I think the 3/5 day things is complete crap, the last day seemed like very anitclimactic and having to actually take more time of work sure didn't help either. It was sad to see so many just up and leave on Friday night and Saturday most because a higher score would do little. Bring back the 5 day mon-fri


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## I BOW 2 (May 22, 2002)

Let's look at another version of the 3/5 day format for a moment.

I elect to shoot all 5 days and have a Field & Hunter score in the bag before you (the 3 dayer) even show up on Friday the Animal round day. Now we have a torrential thunder storms for the next two Field & Hunter days and it is unsafe for you to even "ATTEMPT" to shoot because of the weather or course limitations. You have no score to post, you are out your registration money and have wasted your vacation and lodging and travel money. Are you still happy with a 3/5 day format now???????? :mg: Ken


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

I personally think the 5 day format is a better one. 

Total aggreagate score over 5 days for the win. :thumb:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

The NFAA had the 5 day only format for years and years and years....BUT...the participation was steadily declining.

However, the IBO and ASA have ALWAYS had a 3-day format for their major events...and is thriving, and frankly...their attendance on a Friday-Sunday format is kicking the NFAA's butts, and always has.

The NFAA was doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting different results...and FAILING miserably.

Sure, the OLD FARTS that have been around forever (I'm in that category, by the way) do NOT WANT CHANGE and will fight it tooth and nail...to the bitter end...of the NFAA Outdoor Nationals. They aren't willing to change with the times, period, even it if means no Nationals due to lack of participation.

I have mixed feelings concerning the 5-day format vs. 3 day format, vs. 3/5 format. BUT...forcing ONLY the 5 day format...has been done for years and failed. Something had to change.

We'd pee and moan if we were hung with a new rope. Want our cake and to eat it to. We all know the rules of the event a year in advance and can plan accordingly. Just like I said...the old farts are going to fight this and debate and re-debate it until heck freezes over.

IF the NFAA doesn't shift its National Outdoors towards what is OBVIOUSLY successful for the other two orgs, then they are going to be missing the boat even more than they already have.

3-Day...Friday to Sunday archery events have proven to be what brings in more shooters...They'll come in droves...spend thousands of dollars, spend 8 hours to shoot 40 shots....and think it is just fine.

They won't come, however...that has been proven for many years...to a 5-day long event, to shoot 112 arrows for four days and 28-72 arrows for one day...that too has proven itself with the decline. Even tho now, they can shoot 112 shots in 4-6 hours instead of only 40 in 8 hours.

Myself, I'm for whatever it takes to get the participation up...and it is NOT the 5-day only format at the present time, nor do I see that old format working in the future either.

field14


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## Shrek XT3000 (Apr 19, 2005)

I'm not going to travel from one coast to the other to shoot a 3 day event. As I see it, I now would have to take Monday off as a travel day if I choose to do the 3/5 day. 
What other sport gives you two mulligans?
Just my two cents

Jeff


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Shrek XT3000 said:


> I'm not going to travel from one coast to the other to shoot a 3 day event. As I see it, I now would have to take Monday off as a travel day if I choose to do the 3/5 day.
> What other sport gives you two mulligans?
> Just my two cents
> 
> Jeff


Those are the choices we make... However, if you look at what the participation level is at the major IBO and ASA events...those people ARE travelling great distances and spending tons of money....for a 3-day event....and only shooting 40 total arrows for the Championship (unless they make the shoot down)> Personally, I'd opt for 3 days of FIELD archery to shoot 252 shots long before I'd opt for a 3day event to shoot only 40 shots, averaging ONE ARROW every 25 to 30 minutes to boot.

ASA and IBO have proven over and over and over again by success, that 3-Day Friday-Sunday events WORK....The 5 day forced NFAA event has proven that it does NOT work in this day and age...except for only a few die-hards that won't change their mind-sets.

field14


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## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

*well would you???*

would you give up your first score knowing what ever you shot that day was gona count even if it wasent a higher score???


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## I BOW 2 (May 22, 2002)

Hey Field14, did you notice that the 3 day shooters that planned on only shooting 3 days was about a whopping 30 shooters. This in the state with the highest supposedly state shooter numbers. The people who are complaining the most about having a 3 day shoot never show up anyways so why do we cater to them. If they really want to shoot for 3 dyas then where the hell are they? This is why we have 26 or more divisions in the NFAA because we are worried about 30 people who might not play with the majority of its members. And if you think the IBO & ASA are the greatest orgs. then you need to listen to all of the inter organization memeber whining that they have. They flee one org for the other all the time. It's not the Orgs it's the people that have a problem!!! Ken


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Field, you forgot one other reason why folks flock to the 3 day format in the ASA/IBO.....the chance for ams to win money. I know I know, money and amteurs is not going to happen, but it is still a reason why so many flock to the ASA/IBO.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I BOW 2 said:


> Hey Field14, did you notice that the 3 day shooters that planned on only shooting 3 days was about a whopping 30 shooters. ...Ken


I don't know where I heard it but I thought I heard the roster for Wednesday was something short of 400 shooters? Unfortunately I can't find the posted scores by day which would make it easier to figure out how many shot three days vs. five.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

so the nfaa can have these types of problems too?
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=976924

no thanks





reylamb said:


> Field, you forgot one other reason why folks flock to the 3 day format in the ASA/IBO.....the chance for ams to win money. I know I know, money and amteurs is not going to happen, but it is still a reason why so many flock to the ASA/IBO.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

rock monkey said:


> so the nfaa can have these types of problems too?
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=976924
> 
> no thanks


I don't think I said anything anywhere about the NFAA starting to pay ams did I? Nope, didn't think so. The reality is, that is still a difference and a reason why some choose IBO/ASA over NFAA.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

no, you didnt. but when you do and it becomes more of a reward system for attendance and less of an award system for performance you get that type of entitlement mentality.


it is my hope that the cool kid table in the nfaa doesnt start it.




reylamb said:


> I don't think I said anything anywhere about the NFAA starting to pay ams did I? Nope, didn't think so. The reality is, that is still a difference and a reason why some choose IBO/ASA over NFAA.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Not that I've attended, but I would prefer a 3 day (Fri-Sun) myself. It just works better into the work schedules.. 

My vacation time is usually allocated to non-archery related activities. :whoo:


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2009)

I think what most don't realise is that there is a big difference between a 3-D shooter and a Field shooter, it is the mind set that people harp on, We will never get the 3-D shooters on mass to even try field because they don't want to shoot 112 arrows in 4hrs. Yet we have no trouble screwing the Field archers in hopes of gaining a few 3-ders. We hear about this drop in attendance well I just don't see it, they average 300-600 archers and have for decades. Why is it we don't hear about this grave problem from the NAA nationals at 6 days well I will guess the 3-D shooter doesn't want to shoot 72-144 arrows a day either but they haven't even suggested altering the round to try to accomodate the 3-Ders, how about altering the round to accomodate the Field archers the ones that actually show up.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

JawsDad said:


> Not that I've attended, but I would prefer a 3 day (Fri-Sun) myself. It just works better into the work schedules..
> 
> My vacation time is usually allocated to non-archery related activities. :whoo:


Sounds like you need to get your priorities more in order. :wink:

:Chortle:


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Sean McKenty said:


> I think what most don't realise is that there is a big difference between a 3-D shooter and a Field shooter, it is the mind set that people harp on, We will never get the 3-D shooters on mass to even try field because they don't want to shoot 112 arrows in 4hrs. Yet we have no trouble screwing the Field archers in hopes of gaining a few 3-ders. We hear about this drop in attendance well I just don't see it, they average 300-600 archers and have for decades. Why is it we don't hear about this grave problem from the NAA nationals at 6 days well I will guess the 3-D shooter doesn't want to shoot 72-144 arrows a day either but they haven't even suggested altering the round to try to accomodate the 3-Ders, how about altering the round to accomodate the Field archers the ones that actually show up.


Well said Sean.


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## Shrek XT3000 (Apr 19, 2005)

Sean, I believe you have hit the nail on the head.

Jeff


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Moparmatty said:


> Sounds like you need to get your priorities more in order. :wink:
> 
> :Chortle:


I'll do that in about 7 years when I get my Son off to college... Of course then, I'll be broke and it will be a non-issue.. :doh:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

field14 said:


> However, the IBO and ASA have ALWAYS had a 3-day format for their major events...and is thriving, and frankly...their attendance on a Friday-Sunday format is kicking the NFAA's butts, and always has.
> field14


The ASA and IBO both have a 2 day shoot over 3 days....you don't shoot for 3 days..... 

The ASA has a PRO AM on the first day. :wink:

They are kicking the NFAA's butt attendance wise because of the format not the length of the shoot.....3D is king you know it....I know it....everyone knows it. More people shoot 3D other then Va, MD, NC and PA from what I have seen and heard you are hard pressed to find more then a couple field shoots in most places during the entire year.


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## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

*back on track please!*

thiis is field archery forum isint it? the question I wanted answered was would you give up your first score to shoot again taking your second no matter what the out come ???


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

I have mixed emotions about the 3/5 day format. The 3 day makes it very nice for the average guy to make the shoot possible. It's very tough for people to take 3 or 4 days from work for a shoot. I don't like the idea of a shooter getting a case of the nerves on day 1 or 2 and being able to throw that score out. There are arguements both ways. I think the current format is the best for attendance and that's what archery needs right now.


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## capemaybowman (Aug 13, 2008)

xring1 said:


> thiis is field archery forum isint it? the question I wanted answered was would you give up your first score to shoot again taking your second no matter what the out come ???


 I would give up my scores because I would shoot all 5 days. I come more for the fun than scores. And yes I shot a higher FIELD round but a lower HUNTER round the second time around.


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## Shrek XT3000 (Apr 19, 2005)

"Now you can shoot 3 or 5 days at nats. to improve your score on the field and hunter rounds. what if you had to give up your first round in order to shoot taking your second no matter what the outcome ,would you do it????"

NO.....that's what the mulligans all about.

Jeff


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> The ASA and IBO both have a 2 day shoot over 3 days....you don't shoot for 3 days.....
> 
> The ASA has a PRO AM on the first day. :wink:
> 
> They are kicking the NFAA's butt attendance wise because of the format not the length of the shoot.....3D is king you know it....I know it....everyone knows it. More people shoot 3D other then Va, MD, NC and PA from what I have seen and heard you are hard pressed to find more then a couple field shoots in most places during the entire year.


If ASA and IBO put their tournaments on Sunday thru Tues; Mon-Wed, or anything during the week...I would just about bet their attendance would drop like a rock.
The FRIDAY thru SUNDAY format WORKS....and they've demonstrated that for many, many years.

Same thing with Vegas and and REDDING....put those tournaments starting on Monday...and watch the drop in attendance!

I do agree with an earlier post however...3-Ders no longer have any problem with 8 hours or more of range time to shoot 40 arrows....even tho, at the start of 3-D events, "field shooters" were going over to 3-D because 4 or 5 hours for 112 arrows was simply too long! Now, however, they'll gladly fork over all the money to attend a 3-Day WEEKEND shoot...to shoot only 40 arrows and average roughly 25 minutes between each single shot!

Now, you also have "field shooters" peein and moanin' that having to have the scorecards in by 3PM with a 9AM start...was a "rush job", but everyone did it just fine...when they knew it up front and were sure that the tournament organizers were going to ENFORCE IT!

field14


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Shrek XT3000 said:


> "Now you can shoot 3 or 5 days at nats. to improve your score on the field and hunter rounds. what if you had to give up your first round in order to shoot taking your second no matter what the outcome ,would you do it????"
> 
> NO.....that's what the mulligans all about.
> 
> Jeff


Yes, but ONLY if you can improve upon your FIRST field AND your FIRST hunter score. Knowing what you have to shoot or that you must absolutely shoot better can put a damper on MANY a shooter's psyche!

field14


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## Shrek XT3000 (Apr 19, 2005)

Isn't the whole idea to get more shooters to attend. Then why not let those of us who are there to shoot all 5 days, be able to throw a way the low scores.
I believe that for the serious archer, he or she will always feel that they can and will shoot next field/hunter round better the day. 

Jeff


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

keep the five day, mon to friday, weekend are for travel and warmup. 
count the x's as points. get the people that make the rules to come out and shoot. also 560 archers is five full coures of 112 archers, how many clubs can handle more than that. and remember the f in nfaa stands fo Field. so take care of the shooters that care about Field.:shade:


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## xring1 (May 28, 2008)

*field*



nock tune said:


> keep the five day, mon to friday, weekend are for travel and warmup.
> count the x's as points. get the people that make the rules to come out and shoot. also 560 archers is five full coures of 112 archers, how many clubs can handle more than that. and remember the f in nfaa stands fo Field. so take care of the shooters that care about Field.:shade:


how long has the nfaa been shootin the animal targets at nats ? yes the F is for field so is the animal targets considered a NFAA round ? lets count the X and bring back the five day event without mulligans!!!


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

The 5/3 day thing helps pull a few more shooters that would like to shoot this event but can't use that much vacation time. But it still all comes down to format. 3-D does as well as it does because of format. The vast majority of those shooters love just shooting 3-D. While others love FITA or Indoor. Some of us try to shoot all the venues but that can be very difficult and expensive. So we have to choose which shoots we like best.

Plus with the absence of field ranges across the country it is going to be difficult to build a base for this format. While 3-D has ranges all over. It's easier to develope a passion for a game that you can practice or see on a regular basis.


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## all10s (Sep 29, 2006)

Nationals is a great shoot and a great time to meet people, new and old. I have had some great times. 

With that said, it is a national champship so come to compete or not. The only round option should be whether you finish or not. 

Everyone shoots the same round at the same time within class. Once the trophies are handed out based on the same number of arrows fired in competition, shoot all you want.

3 days only is my preference due to the amount of time required to attend the event. 5 days takes me out of attending. All rounds should be shoot the same number of times for a championship. Drop the animal if it is not important enough to shoot the same number of times. 

my 2 cents


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