# My lesson with GRIV



## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

Thank you for sharing.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

I bought into the "shorter is better" that we read on here all the time a few years back. I was shooting a team shoot with an ASA pro, and he said, "man, you're way too short. It looks terribly uncomfortable." It seems that many have a go-to suggestion for many problems...shorten the DL. Don't buy into it! Lol


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Thanks and I'm glad to hear your report as well. I think you're spot on about trust. A student has to decide early on that he is, or is not, going to put complete faith in the coach. With any change there will likely be a rough transition period and the only way it can come out positive is with a faith-backed determination to get through it.


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

tmorelli said:


> Thanks and I'm glad to hear your report as well. I think you're spot on about trust. A student has to decide early on that he is, or is not, going to put complete faith in the coach. With any change there will likely be a rough transition period and the only way it can come out positive is with a faith-backed determination to get through it.


You're welcome and I appreciate your help.


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

dw'struth said:


> I bought into the "shorter is better" that we read on here all the time a few years back. I was shooting a team shoot with an ASA pro, and he said, "man, you're way too short. It looks terribly uncomfortable." It seems that many have a go-to suggestion for many problems...shorten the DL. Don't buy into it! Lol


Yeah it's pretty crazy how horrible advise repeated over and over with pictures and diagrams can become gospel.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

dw'struth said:


> I bought into the "shorter is better" that we read on here all the time a few years back. I was shooting a team shoot with an ASA pro, and he said, "man, you're way too short. It looks terribly uncomfortable." It seems that many have a go-to suggestion for many problems...shorten the DL. Don't buy into it! Lol


Looks like you might have benefited from getting a coach from the beginning and not just taking for granted what was written by someone on here. I've got to say that I've observed more people with dl set too long than ones that were too short. Bottom line is neither is good for best accuracy results.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dw'struth said:


> I bought into the "shorter is better" that we read on here all the time a few years back. I was shooting a team shoot with an ASA pro, and he said, "man, you're way too short. It looks terribly uncomfortable." It seems that many have a go-to suggestion for many problems...shorten the DL. Don't buy into it! Lol


Well, I think people cut short what I heard; "You can shoot a bow too short of draw length better than you can a bow too long of draw length." Big difference. Okay, you can correct too short with the bow arm and do pretty decent. Bow arms don't stretch to correct too long and anchor behind your head ain't good.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, I think people cut short what I heard; "You can shoot a bow too short of draw length better than you can a bow too long of draw length." Big difference. Okay, you can correct too short with the bow arm and do pretty decent. Bow arms don't stretch to correct too long and anchor behind your head ain't good.


If this is all you have heard with regard to "your DL is too long", you haven't been listening very good.

As far as GRIV goes I had a weekend with him when he was living in NY. He not only knows his stuff, he has the communication skills that make for a very good coach. Having the knowledge does no good if you can't communicate it. George is a master of both.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

dw'struth said:


> I bought into the "shorter is better" that we read on here all the time a few years back. I was shooting a team shoot with an ASA pro, and he said, "man, you're way too short. It looks terribly uncomfortable." It seems that many have a go-to suggestion for many problems...shorten the DL. Don't buy into it! Lol


Shorter is better if your too long. But it cannot be a blanket statement in either direction. It has to be justified by results, a coach etc.


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

nochance said:


> Shorter is better if your too long. But it cannot be a blanket statement in either direction. It has to be justified by results, a coach etc.


In my experience results didn't dictate what proper form was.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

nate0404 said:


> In my experience results didn't dictate what proper form was.


In the long run, they will. IMO, "proper" form is about building a sound foundation that won't hinder the development of your game and your shot. 

As we've discussed, if I had to pick one element as most important it would be shoulder position. If it isn't right, it will cause other symptoms that carry over through your game. Your draw length is key to shoulder position... Too long and you'll lean...which raises the shoulder. Too short and you physically can't get the shoulder down. 

I'm excited for you that you got some time with a great coach.


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

tmorelli said:


> In the long run, they will. IMO, "proper" form is about building a sound foundation that won't hinder the development of your game and your shot.
> 
> As we've discussed, if I had to pick one element as most important it would be shoulder position. If it isn't right, it will cause other symptoms that carry over through your game. Your draw length is key to shoulder position... Too long and you'll lean...which raises the shoulder. Too short and you physically can't get the shoulder down.
> 
> I'm excited for you that you got some time with a great coach.


Yeah I am too and I probably posted this in the wrong forum, as I'm sure most readers in here have spent time with a good coach. I really just wanted people to know that time with a good coach will be money well spent, no matter the skill level.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

EPLC said:


> If this is all you have heard with regard to "your DL is too long", you haven't been listening very good.
> 
> As far as GRIV goes I had a weekend with him when he was living in NY. He not only knows his stuff, he has the communication skills that make for a very good coach. Having the knowledge does no good if you can't communicate it. George is a master of both.


My reply had to do with what I've heard since day one of returning to archery, not Griv. Many sayings have been quoted wrong or distorted. I gave the example of.........


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

ILOVE3D said:


> Looks like you might have benefited from getting a coach from the beginning and not just taking for granted what was written by someone on here. I've got to say that I've observed more people with dl set too long than ones that were too short. Bottom line is neither is good for best accuracy results.


I didn't take anything for granted, but figured I'd try it for a while since it seemed to be a cure-all. Missing right...shorten DL, missing low...shorten DL, want to hold better...Like I said, it is the go-to response for a lot of people on here.


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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

GRIV is an amazing person and has helped me in life way more than just archery. $100 for 2 hours with him is quite a bargain. Add a zero to that and you will still get your monies worth. He's a damn good shooter and I could only imagine how good he would be if he were to shoot full time. Instead he is more focused on helping others succeed in the sport which is amazing. He deserves many more awards than coach of the year.


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## rebeldawg (Jan 10, 2014)

How does one overcome back shoulder to high resulting in a low hold? Been battling this one for months!


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## okpik (Dec 1, 2005)

rebeldawg said:


> How does one overcome back shoulder to high resulting in a low hold? Been battling this one for months!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gexDLptcios


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

nate0404 said:


> A couple of things that I have taken away from the experience.
> 
> 
> 5. As much as people spend on archery I can't believe we don't spend more on coaching.


IMHO the biggest obstacle for folks wanting to connect with a coach is the absence of good coaches, accessible to the shooters.


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

carlosii said:


> IMHO the biggest obstacle for folks wanting to connect with a coach is the absence of good coaches, accessible to the shooters.


If you want good coaching you can find it.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

nate0404 said:


> If you want good coaching you can find it.


Yep...you can find them. But being accessible is not the same as finding them. :wink:


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

carlosii said:


> Yep...you can find them. But being accessible is not the same as finding them. :wink:


The three coaches that I called when looking for a lesson were all very easy to contact, all were very helpful, and all had times available for me. It sounds like you have had different experiences in looking for coaching.


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## slammin12 (Jan 11, 2014)

just out of curiosity I would like to see a pic of yourself before and after the change...just to see what the difference looks like


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## nate0404 (Dec 7, 2013)

slammin12 said:


> just out of curiosity I would like to see a pic of yourself before and after the change...just to see what the difference looks like


before









after


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## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

nate0404 said:


> before
> 
> View attachment 2207519
> 
> ...


That's funny!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

nate0404 said:


> The three coaches that I called when looking for a lesson were all very easy to contact, all were very helpful, and all had times available for me. It sounds like you have had different experiences in looking for coaching.


Hmmm...could be.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Good available coaches are easy to find....it's just the cost of the plane ticket that holds us up


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## slammin12 (Jan 11, 2014)

ha nice equipment upgrade also!!!


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## ArcherXXX300 (Apr 22, 2013)

He definitely knows his stuff Griv that is....He never made the time to let me know when he was available, so I went elsewhere and continue to do so. I'd like to work with him, but he won't give me an answer on anything, yeah he's busy....but that's rude not to even try to schedule a time when I told him I'm available 24/7 365 whenever his schedule permits. Oh well. Glad he helped you out though.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

The problem I have with GRIV is....I can't find the two DVD's of his that I bought.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

ArcherXXX300 said:


> He definitely knows his stuff Griv that is....He never made the time to let me know when he was available, so I went elsewhere and continue to do so. I'd like to work with him, but he won't give me an answer on anything, yeah he's busy....but that's rude not to even try to schedule a time when I told him I'm available 24/7 365 whenever his schedule permits. Oh well. Glad he helped you out though.


OOPS! I'm really sorry that happened. I never mean to blow anyone off. I am pretty busy and it's tough to pick a date. My family life is complicated so I need to keep my schedule fluid sometimes. 

Anyone who would like to book some time, I'm here to help. Please have a few dates in mind that work for you. That will make it easier to pick a time. Also the weekdays are much better than the weekends. If you can be free during the week I can usually spend more time with you. 

Sorry for the blow off. it wasn't intentional. I'm just a little ADD.


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

GRIV does a lot for archery, cut him some slack!! I think to often folks rely on PM's and emails when they just need to pick up the phone and call until they get an answer. I am sure you can find his number on the web easy enough.....


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Archery is like golf.

Go buy some clubs. Head to the range. Hits some balls. Slice, cut, top it - the list goes on. Try it a few months. Get a little advice. Clubs go in the closet.

A buy a bow. Head to the range. Shoot some arrows. Slap your arm, torque it, punch - the list goes on. Try it a few months. Get a little advice, Bow goes in the closet.

Take either tool and get some legitimate training, your hooked for life. 

Too many are worried about what color string and stab combo look the best. Choose Spartan over Luxurious. Tip #6.

What gets my goat is you start training a student. Start making headway and everything is coming together then everything is put on hold till the end of baseball season or cheerleading is over....YOU wanna be the best? Then treat your practice like that is all that matters. Practice is the big game. The main focus. Because practice is transformative and if you keep reaching and extending past the sweet spot. You get better.

.02


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