# 24 top athletes pose nude for ESPN.. Katuna Lorig represents Archery sport



## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Really dumb it's not about sex it's about Archery


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

2413gary said:


> Really dumb it's not about sex it's about Archery


Nahhh. It's about sexy bodies.


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## teebat (Oct 28, 2013)

Oh, I could name a few archers (female) I wouldn't mine seeing :wink:


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

If that's what they want to do that's fine, but I really don't get the connection between sports news and athletes posing nude for said sports news.
In the old days the athlete would just go to playboy.
I guess ESPN sees how much money sports illustrated swimsuit issue rakes in, and they want in on it too.
It's cool that they included an archer, but I don't follow ESPN, or read sports illustrated, so I guess the hoopla is lost on me.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

2413gary said:


> Really dumb it's not about sex it's about Archery


Nobody is saying it's about sex. We have a serious problem in this country that the human body is always seen as sexualized when nude. I see it more as showing the differences in body shape/type in the context of the sport and how muscle development and "fitness" compares when showing top athletes in each sport.

I think it's a pretty interesting project.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Maybe we should pose nude for them :embara:


itbeso said:


> Nahhh. It's about sexy bodies.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Khatuna has certainly become a role model for many young archers, esp young girls. I wonder how/if USArchery was consulted on this decision, and whether they gave any thought to her position as a role model for young female archers? 

I have a 14 year old daughter who shoots archery. I'm not sure I want her to learn that one of our female Olympic archers posed nude in a magazine, and if she does, I'm not sure how to explain it.

Guess I'm old fashioned when it comes to sports role models and the kids who look up to them.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

You want a good roll model look at LaNola Prichard.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

swbuckmaster said:


> You want a good roll model look at LaNola Prichard.


Thankfully, archery is flush with great role models for our kids (it's one of the things I hear from our JOAD parents often, that they don't have to "worry" about the people their kids will be around). LaNola is certainly a great example of that, as is Michelle Gilbert, Miranda Leek, Heather Koehl, Jenny Nichols and others.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

I don't know the other girls and don't follow the recurve archers much. I do know LaNola and know her upbringing. My daughters shot with LaNola for several years and they look up to her.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

..and how many of you reading this thread are sitting there in your birthday suit?


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

carlosii said:


> ..and how many of you reading this thread are sitting there in your birthday suit?


Not me! HR got mad the last time I did that at work...


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Khatuna has certainly become a role model for many young archers, esp young girls. I wonder how/if USArchery was consulted on this decision, and whether they gave any thought to her position as a role model for young female archers?
> 
> I have a 14 year old daughter who shoots archery. I'm not sure I want her to learn that one of our female Olympic archers posed nude in a magazine, and if she does, I'm not sure how to explain it.
> 
> Guess I'm old fashioned when it comes to sports role models and the kids who look up to them.


How do you explain ancient Greek statues showing off athletic figures?

I have to agree that the huper sexualisation of the nude form, and subsequent prudishness about it, is cultural, a difference that is especially noticible when the US is compared to much of Europe.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

It's 2015. Nobody owes another person's kid(s) a role model.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

This is all about degrading oneself for the almighty dollar.

There is infinitely more to life than making a cheap buck


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Mr. Roboto said:


> This is all about degrading oneself for the almighty dollar.


And you know this how, exactly? You've talked with all the participants, perhaps? I suspect not.

And, what, exactly, is "degrading", about showing the body that athletes have worked so hard to perfect? And would the criticism be the same for a male archer, with the same " no longer worthy of being a role model " comments?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

i thought it was cool they included Olympic archery in with all the other main TV sports. If the athletes don't have a problem with it, i don't see why would. 



Chris


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## jwalgast (Aug 7, 2005)

I agree with Chris


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

chrstphr said:


> i thought it was cool they included Olympic archery in with all the other main TV sports. If the athletes don't have a problem with it, i don't see why would.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris


Erika Anschutz was featured in 2010. USAA posted about it, and tweeted it.

http://m.teamusa.org/USA-Archery/Ne...tz-Featured-in-ESPN-The-Magazine-s-Body-Issue


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

A lot of 'to do' about nothing...............you'd see as much on any beach.

Hardly leud and if being self-confident enough to do it isn't a good example to set for children ......

I think it says more about those that are complaining about it.

Khatuna is a heroine here one moment and a disgrace the next.....???? Do you really think she is going to allow herself to be used for porn?

Why not reserve comment until the picture is seen?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

One thing is for sure, Khatuna is getting all the "exposure" these days that she wants. 

Would still love to hear what the official word from USArchery is on this one.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Warbow said:


> Erika Anschutz was featured in 2010. USAA posted about it, and tweeted it.
> 
> http://m.teamusa.org/USA-Archery/Ne...tz-Featured-in-ESPN-The-Magazine-s-Body-Issue


that is great. I had no idea. 


Chris


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

John perhaps I am just not in the know but what does US Archery have to do with this? Why would their opinion matter? Are the athletes that shoot in the USA shoots under some type of contractual marketing agreement with them? I was under the impression that the archers were in fact considered independent contractors and could represent themselves how they see fit. 
I could understand one of the equipment sponsors having a valid right to an opinion if the shooter was under contract with them. Perhaps I just don't understand the working relationship between USA and the archers.
Personally I think it is good for the sport to show a young healthy in shape athelete representing her sport. My daughter was/is an athelete that played softball at a very high level in high school and college and if the opportunity had appeared for her to represent her sport that decision would have been up to her once she was of legal age.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Because she is the 2nd highest profile (some would argue THE highest) athlete shooting under the USArchery banner, complete with full sponsor and media relations support. In other words, she's THE brand right now, and has been since she was selected to teach JLaw how to shoot a traditional bow like a target recurve.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Sport is all about image and marketing now so good for her and good for the sport. I assume Ben turned them down first


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Bigjono said:


> Sport is all about image and marketing now so good for her and good for the sport. I assume Ben turned them down first


One would HAVE to assume that. I mean, really.  ha, ha.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

No Ana Ivanovic? its clearly deficient then. I have met almost every top ladies tennis player and lots of olympic athletes. Ana is #1 without a doubt. anyway good to see Khatuna get some good press


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## Paula (Sep 8, 2009)

Good for her,,


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Old Sarge said:


> John perhaps I am just not in the know but what does US Archery have to do with this? Why would their opinion matter? Are the athletes that shoot in the USA shoots under some type of contractual marketing agreement with them? I was under the impression that the archers were in fact considered independent contractors and could represent themselves how they see fit.
> I could understand one of the equipment sponsors having a valid right to an opinion if the shooter was under contract with them. Perhaps I just don't understand the working relationship between USA and the archers.
> Personally I think it is good for the sport to show a young healthy in shape athelete representing her sport. My daughter was/is an athelete that played softball at a very high level in high school and college and if the opportunity had appeared for her to represent her sport that decision would have been up to her once she was of legal age.


Because the exposed human body is evil and filthy, especially women. Never mind the context. They have a Malay word for this, made popular recently by some Malaysian Muslim politician about the attire of a female gymnast being incompatible with the religion. The word is "Aurat".

Guys are ok. Just take it all off. It's just healthy for the sport.

Oh by the way, Williams wasn't totally naked, look carefully around the hip. Yeah I know, feels totally cheated......


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> It's 2015. Nobody owes another person's kid(s) a role model.


You might feel differently if your daughter was doing this.

Being a good role model is about being a good, responsible person and doing what is right.

So Henry Chan is that really the type of Role Model you would want fire your kids???


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

I'm not going to get sucked into debate on this matter. I will say, however, that I'm appalled, but not surprised. 

Shameless self promotion with no regard for the influence upon the many young female archers who only know who she is because of the Hunger Games. 

Not the role model I want my students to look to.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Gasp!

Y'all act like you've seen the proofs. 

It isn't porn, it's nude figure shots of athletes. Ever visit a museum? Blame Greece, they made it en vogue... A few millennia back.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

The one of Erika from 2010 is her in a sports bra and shorts. Let's not go crazy.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

kshet26 said:


> The one of Erika from 2010 is her in a sports bra and shorts. Let's not go crazy.


Exactly. A full-wardrobed Michael Phelps likely shows more flesh.


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## chevota841 (Nov 24, 2014)

MickeyBisco said:


> Exactly. A full-wardrobed Michael Phelps likely shows more flesh.


X2. Even if they are totally naked it's still espn, you'd see more skin at a public swimming pool. I don't know, maybe it's a sex sells thing but I feel like it highlights what kind of shape a professional athlete has to be in.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

As I'd never seen an ESPN body issue, or even heard of it, I googled it.
Definitely pretty tame photos, and what I saw was actually pretty well done keeping with the athletes, both men and women's, sport theme.
I'd say no harm, no foul.
It's definitely not the sports illustrated swimsuit issue, which contains about zero sport, or athlete content.

This will likely be another small blip on the radar that will go mostly unnoticed by the masses.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

MickeyBisco said:


> Gasp!
> 
> Y'all act like you've seen the proofs.
> 
> It isn't porn, it's nude figure shots of athletes. Ever visit a museum? Blame Greece, they made it en vogue... A few millennia back.


Heck, the games that inspired the modern Olympics were performed in the nude. Appalling! Quick, everyone pull their kids out of J*O*AD in protest!!! :mg:

Have any of the people harshing on five time Olympian Khatuna Lorig as suddenly being a "bad role model" even seen the ESPN body issue? And do these people give the same apropation to Olympic swimmers who, as MickeyBisco notes, show as much or more flesh in their Speedos? Anyone here called a respected Olympic swimmer out soley for showing his or her athletic body in their swim wear? Anyone? I'm just looking for some *consistency* on people being "appalled" by athletes showing some skin, appearing in ESPN with their bits strategically covered, as opposed to on prime time TV in tiny, wet, clingy Speedos that require no imagination.

Also, I'm just guessing, but I don't think the reaction would be the same for a respected male archer appearing in this issue, and I don't think that's fair, reasonable or equitable.

Calling out a respected Olympian a bad role model over professional ESPN photos that they haven't even seen is, I think, irresponsible.


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## OCBrent (Sep 27, 2007)

From a quick Google it looks like in the past they've had body types in there like Reo Wilde (a big Baseball player). Some female Shot-put athletes, which are a big body type. Skinny Endurance athlete body types... There's a variety of body types that can be successful in different Sports.

Some of the past sports I've done from Running to Swimming involved a lot less clothes, and I can't honestly recall any other athletes freaking out about exposed bodies.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Bob Furman said:


> You might feel differently if your daughter was doing this.
> 
> Being a good role model is about being a good, responsible person and doing what is right.
> 
> So Henry Chan is that really the type of Role Model you would want fire your kids???


WHo's henry chan?

I do not have a daughter, so it would be utterly presumptuous for anyone to suggest in any random way how I would feel if my imaginary child was doing what he or she has decided to do after I gave him or her my blessings to live his or her life the way he or she wanted to.

Also, if you didn't like what you see on the internet, no one is forcing you to see it. If you feel that your daughter is so easily influenced by a nude picture, well......that says something about her upbringing, doesn't it?


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

Bob Furman said:


> You might feel differently if your daughter was doing this.


there's a major difference between a nude art shot and anything that could be termed pornographic. I'd far rather see my daughter (if I had one) in the former as opposed to modelling some totally legal in public swimsuits from a certain website I won't mention.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> maybe it's a sex sells thing


Maybe? LOL.

And I always enjoy seeing the comments about role models from people who have never raised children. They make me LOL.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

They're not the most risque photos. People are so easy to judge.

There's been similar feature in one of our major newspapers for years, and it has seen lots of different people, from sportsmen to politicians to childrens writers to people from absolutely every slice of life to pose "nude" and talk about their bodies. You are hard pushed to find any eroticism in that, the photos are rather raw.

Have a peek.


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

The idea that somehow, somewhere, someone else is responsible for the character development of an unrelated kid, simply for doing what many others have done before WITHOUT having harmed anyone, and that a response is somehow warranted from that individual's sport's governing body, smacks of bigotry.

Then again it makes perfect sense. One is currently a celebrated and successful sportswoman, the others, well......


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Parents should be a kids role model.


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## yugami (Dec 10, 2013)

theminoritydude said:


> Because the exposed human body is evil and filthy, especially women. Never mind the context. They have a Malay word for this, made popular recently by some Malaysian Muslim politician about the attire of a female gymnast being incompatible with the religion. The word is "Aurat".


Most Americans have more in common with fundamentalist Islamists than they feel comfortable admitting.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

People who wish that Khatuna wouldn't pose partially nude aren't being 'irresponsible' - they have just as much right to their opinion as those who applaud her for doing so. 

Khatuna probably thinks - if she thinks about it at all - that she IS being a good role model for young girls ... empowerment, free from the shackles of Puritan convention, etc. If so, that's her modern culture perspective on display. Fine. Parents who wish she wasn't doing it - that is their perspective on display, and they're position is just as responsible as anyone else's. 

And for those of you so quick to accuse "you wouldn't be so appalled it if it were a man!" - you're right. I'd be MUCH MORE APPALLED if I opened up that issue next month and saw Brady or Oh Jin Yek mostly naked ... Please, Lord, spare me that visual!


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

yugami said:


> Most Americans have more in common with fundamentalist Islamists than they feel comfortable admitting.


That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. Bravo for the scale of overreach.


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## yugami (Dec 10, 2013)

lksseven said:


> That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. Bravo for the scale of overreach.


How so?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

lksseven said:


> People who wish that Khatuna wouldn't pose partially nude aren't being 'irresponsible' - they have just as much right to their opinion as those who applaud her for doing so.


They are entitled to their opinion, but they are being irresponsible because they are *already* "appalled" and say she's a bad role model even though they don't know what the photo is going to be. That is irresponsible. Erika Anschutz was featured in 2010, wearing a modest sports bra and black shorts - showing less skin than you'll see at any beach. So, yeah, definitely irresponsible to start maligning the reputation of a respected five time Olympian. (You gonna call Erika Anschutz out for that photo?)


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

Say, does Katuna read AT posts? Just wondering.....


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

theminoritydude said:


> Say, does Katuna read AT posts? Just wondering.....


I hope she does. This thread will give her a good justification to why some people's perceptions need changing.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

lksseven said:


> And for those of you so quick to accuse "you wouldn't be so appalled it if it were a man!" - you're right. I'd be MUCH MORE APPALLED if I opened up that issue next month and saw Brady or Oh Jin Yek mostly naked ... Please, Lord, spare me that visual!


I see. So, then, I'm sure you are appalled and have called out Tyler Benner as a "bad role model" for appearing wearing nothing but skin tight bike shorts and a pair of Nikes in _Inside the Archer._..?


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

I would have to see the photo before making any judgment. There is a difference between sexy and pornographic.

However, anyone who think this is anything other than ESPN trying to sell magazines with sexy photos is delusional. ESPN is not "High Art". They are a commercial enterprise making money how ever they can.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

I wouldn't say it's art, but I think it does accomplish their stated mission about body image. The shots I've seen aren't all of 'perfect' physiques. I think it's a positive message that even top athletes, who we tend to put on pedestals, are indeed real, vulnerable, people. It's less about 'sexy', and more about a voyeuristic impulse to compare our expectations of greatness with the realities of being human.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

ccwilder3 said:


> However, anyone who think this is anything other than ESPN trying to sell magazines with sexy photos is delusional. ESPN is not "High Art". They are a commercial enterprise making money how ever they can.


ESPN is a money making enterprise, and the Body Issue is meant to sell magazines. But that doesn't mean the photos aren't artistic or fine examples of photographic portraiture. And just because ESPN is making bank on this does mean the athletes are - that could go either way and we'd really have to hear some people in the know say what the appearance fee is. It might be great, or it could be "this publicity will really be great for your sport," or some combination of the two. 

(I'm also not sure that "High Art" is "High Art" - I've seen a lot of commercial art that I prefer over "Art".)

I'd also ad that I think the Body Issue is fascinating - it shows a wide variety of body types among world class athletes, from incredibly lean to hefty, from tall to short, from young to old, from smooth to grizzled, from men to women.


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

The "High Art" was in reply to those comparing this to ancient Greek master artist. 

This is ESPN taking nearly naked photo's of athletes from a variety of sports so that it will have a broader appeal. They could have taken photo's with tight fitting clothing to display different body types but that would not sell as well. Skin is necessary to boost sales.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Warbow said:


> They are entitled to their opinion, but they are being irresponsible because they are *already* "appalled" and say she's a bad role model even though they don't know what the photo is going to be. That is irresponsible. Erika Anschutz was featured in 2010, wearing a modest sports bra and black shorts - showing less skin than you'll see at any beach. So, yeah, definitely irresponsible to start maligning the reputation of a respected five time Olympian. (You gonna call Erika Anschutz out for that photo?)


Warbow, neither you nor I am the arbiter of the 'appropriate level of disapproval' that other people may have for the degree of dress being displayed or not displayed. I expect that some people were, indeed, not approving of Erica's attire in the 2010 issue (I was not one of them - I thought it was fine). The people that are already 'appalled' are likely just taking the title of the post ('.. top athletes pose NUDE..') at face value. Your overreaction to their overreaction strikes me as being the other side of the same coin.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Warbow said:


> I see. So, then, I'm sure you are appalled and have called out Tyler Benner as a "bad role model" for appearing wearing nothing but skin tight bike shorts and a pair of Nikes in _Inside the Archer._..?


Get a grip - my allusion was a quip speaking to Brady and Oh not being the most svelte guys around.

And I've not said I was appalled by any of these athletes, including Khatuna.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

lksseven said:


> Warbow, neither you nor I am the arbiter of the 'appropriate level of disapproval' that other people may have for the degree of dress being displayed or not displayed. I expect that some people were, indeed, not approving of Erica's attire in the 2010 issue (I was not one of them - I thought it was fine). The people that are already 'appalled' are likely just taking the title of the post ('.. top athletes pose NUDE..') at face value.


You are only proving my point. Those people aren't waiting for *facts*, they are just going ahead can defaming Khatuna, calling her a bad role model right now, before the photo even exists, without knowing what it looks like. Again, irresponsible on their part.

As to Brady or Oh, they'd fit right in. While most of the body issue images are of lean world class athletes, some are of not so lean world class athletes. That's part of what makes the issue fascinating, how not only what individuals look like, but what people who are world class in different sports look like.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

https://youtu.be/4gqk4WPnrpM


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Ok, that's just scary...Barkley and I share the same view on parenting--lol..."parents should be the role models"

If a parent does their job as parents, this skin thing isn't an issue.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Fury90flier said:


> Ok, that's just scary...Barkley and I share the same view on parenting--lol..."parents should be the role models"
> 
> If a parent does their job as parents, this skin thing isn't an issue.






Yeah, while I agree with the words of that video, that it is a paid ad by Nike featuring their sponsored "bad boy" athlete puts a different, awkward twist on it. Nike didn't pay him to dunk basketballs, they paid him for his fame, for it to rub off on their brand, to make them money. that still doesn't make him a role model, but it does call into question the degree to which sponsors should pay people to be role models vs paying people to be famous, or infamous.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Warbow said:


> You are only proving my point. Those people aren't waiting for *facts*, they are just going ahead can defaming Khatuna, calling her a bad role model right now, before the photo even exists, without knowing what it looks like. Again, irresponsible on their part.
> 
> As to Brady or Oh, they'd fit right in. While most of the body issue images are of lean world class athletes, some are of not so lean world class athletes. That's part of what makes the issue fascinating, how not only what individuals look like, but what people who are world class in different sports look like.


Defaming? Expressing an opinion or sentiment "I don't consider posing nude (whatever degree of undress that ends up being) to be a good role model for my daughter" is defaming? I don't agree. 

Brady and Oh fitting right in ... I didn't say they "wouldn't fit in", whatever that means. I said please spare me that visual (the tongue in cheek quip likely obvious to most here except you). Could you at least allow me the courtesy of having my own preference for what visual I do or don't want in my head? And, by the way, my preference ain't this ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40053000/jpg/_40053111_fat_suit_ap.jpg .


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

lksseven said:


> Could you at least allow me the courtesy of having my own preference for what visual I do or don't want in my head? And, by the way, my preference ain't this ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40053000/jpg/_40053111_fat_suit_ap.jpg .


No problem, you should come and visit San Francisco during the Bay to Breakers race, where lots of folks dress up for the run, if thats what you like 

As to defaming, calling Khatuna out regardless her decades of integrity in the archery community (as if they are nothing) over a picture that hasn't even happened, in my opinion that is defamation - not the you can sue people and win variety, but definitely in terms of impugning her character over imagined moral wrongs rather that on any factual basis.


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## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

As a female in my 20s, I don't feel that Khatuna is smearing her image by doing this. It shows us that we should be proud, comfortable, and confident with our bodies as women and athletes..and even more so while doing your sport. A side bonus in this is a little bit of archery exposure to the mainstream sports community.

Some people have young kids that look up to Khatuna and have voiced their concerns. While those concerns are reasonable, the kids should be looking at her actions on the field, and not as much off the field. It begs the question if they're trying to be like her on the field (shoot like her) or be like her off the field (be like her).


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## DarrenHJA (Dec 27, 2014)

theminoritydude said:


> Because the exposed human body is evil and filthy, especially women. Never mind the context. They have a Malay word for this, made popular recently by some Malaysian Muslim politician about the attire of a female gymnast being incompatible with the religion. The word is "Aurat".
> 
> Guys are ok. Just take it all off. It's just healthy for the sport.
> 
> Oh by the way, Williams wasn't totally naked, look carefully around the hip. Yeah I know, feels totally cheated......



I laughed so much at that Malaysian new article when I heard about it. I'm a Malaysian studying in Uk


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

iArch said:


> As a female in my 20s, I don't feel that Khatuna is smearing her image by doing this. It shows us that we should be proud, comfortable, and confident with our bodies as women and athletes..and even more so while doing your sport. A side bonus in this is a little bit of archery exposure to the mainstream sports community.
> 
> Some people have young kids that look up to Khatuna and have voiced their concerns. While those concerns are reasonable, the kids should be looking at her actions on the field, and not as much off the field. It begs the question if they're trying to be like her on the field (shoot like her) or be like her off the field (be like her).


I'm glad you at least attempted to address the concerns of both parents, and young archers. 

This discussion/debate has gone on for many years about professional athletes and their on and off-field behavior. All those who are willing to ignore off-field discretions always say the same thing - "just look at their behavior on the field of play..." or the athlete says "I'm only a role model on the field..."

Well sorry. It doesn't work that way. Not when you're a professional athlete, and especially not when you're an Olympian. You give up that right when you shoulder those titles. 

Michael Phelps smoking dope in the UK is a perfect example. One of the most dissapointing actions I can remember by an Olympian (I'm not even going to TOUCH the Bruce/Caitlyn thing) in my lifetime. The more Olympics one makes, the more medals one wins, the more eyeballs are on them. It is what it is. Fair? Nope. But life's not fair and folks either know this going in, or should know this.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Last_Bastion said:


> Nobody is saying it's about sex. We have a serious problem in this country that the human body is always seen as sexualized when nude. I see it more as showing the differences in body shape/type in the context of the sport and how muscle development and "fitness" compares when showing top athletes in each sport.
> 
> I think it's a pretty interesting project.


I agree, don't try to make it dirty it's more about athletics and fitness.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yea, that's why they are nude. It's about athletics and fitness.  ha, ha.

Are we really supposed to believe they are not fully aware that "nude" will sell more magazines than clothed and "fit." Really?

Anyone who doesn't think this is about selling magazines is kidding themselves or is very naive. 

Interpret it how you wish, but this is about using sex to sell. Period.

Am I personally offended by it? Not really. I agree the photos are very tastefully done and I'm glad to see them choose Archery. But to simply ignore the "role model" responsibility these athletes have to the younger generation? That's putting one's head in the sand.

I am still interested in hearing what the USOC and USArchery think about this. I know the LPGA has given in to the almighty dollar and is all too happy to have their most attractive members pose nude as often as possible in order to improve ratings and rake in the cash. Because, that's what this is all about.


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## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

Personally, I'm baffled at some of the responses. Obviously, Khatuna has decided that this is the right way for her to go and she seems excited with the opportunity knowing the specifics (probably much better than most of us). I'm happy for her. It does not change my opinion of her in the least.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That does raise an interesting question too...

Will Khatuna make more money from her archery and archery related sponsors, or from posing for ESPN this year?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

BobCo19-65 said:


> Personally, I'm baffled at some of the responses. Obviously, Khatuna has decided that this is the right way for her to go and she seems excited with the opportunity knowing the specifics (probably much better than most of us). I'm happy for her. It does not change my opinion of her in the least.


Bob, you have young daughters? Young JOAD club members? If one of them comes up to you and asks about this, what is your response?


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Yea, that's why they are nude. It's about athletics and fitness.  ha, ha.
> 
> Are we really supposed to believe they are not fully aware that "nude" will sell more magazines than clothed and "fit." Really?
> 
> Anyone who doesn't think this is about selling magazines is kidding themselves or is very naive.


Has anyone - anyone - said that? :dontknow:



limbwalker said:


> But to simply ignore the "role model" responsibility these athletes have to the younger generation? That's putting one's head in the sand.
> 
> I am still interested in hearing what the USOC and USArchery think about this. I know the LPGA has given in to the almighty dollar and is all too happy to have their most attractive members pose nude as often as possible in order to improve ratings and rake in the cash. Because, that's what this is all about.


And yet perhaps that is exactly why she's doing it, to be a *good* role model. To show people that they can be strong, fit and confident in their 40's - and yes, she does that on the field, too, but this emphasizes another aspect of that fitness, and her confidence. 

And, again, all the bits are covered. So, I'm still not seeing how the picture that nobody has even seen (and may not even exist yet) demonstrates that she's anything other than a good role model as an athlete and as an individual.

I'd also add that one of the ways that nudity becomes hyper sexualized is by prohibition, by declaring it dirty and shameful and that anyone who shows any skin is a bad role model. This helps insure that any nakedness is associated not with merely being *human* in the skin we are all born with and wearing under our clothes but with sex and shame, and only sex and shame. Being more open to the human body helps deemphasize the sex aspect. So if you don't want your kids to grow up hot for naked people, and to swoon at the slightest showing of skin, then don't make such a big deal about naked people. (Kind of the same way people shouldn't go hyper every time a toddler falls down - the toddlers look to the reaction of adults before deciding how they should feel.)


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> That does raise an interesting question too...
> 
> Will Khatuna make more money from her archery and archery related sponsors, or from posing for ESPN this year?


Given how little money there is in recurve archery, that wouldn't be saying much.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

The guy that is writing the article explained it is about the different body types and types it takes for different sports.

Yes, I do agree that some will make it about sex and that sex sells but, as far as infringing on role model status and protecting your kids. 

What a great way to sit down with them, show the pictures and have a discussion while reading the article with your kids. 

If you think you can protect them from images like this and much worse you are kidding yourself.

Let them learn your values from you, take this opportunity to teach your kids.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

All those things can be done with clothes on. Period.

The extra unrobing is to use sex to sell magazines. I think we all know this. So the message here that kids are receiving is that you can become even MORE famous if you take your clothes off than you can if you keep them on. Kids have been getting this message loud and clear for a long time now, thanks to the wonderful media we have in this country. This is just the latest reinforcement of that idea.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Warbow said:


> Has anyone - anyone - said that? :dontknow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent, totally agree.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

XForce Girl said:


> Excellent, totally agree.


Curious, do either of you have kids?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> All those things can be done with clothes on. Period.


Well, and you can high dive in a wet suit, too. And do archery wearing frock coats. But you can perform better at the Olympics without those things. And you aren't a "bad role model" for lack of a wet suit in high diving or a frock coat in archery.

Unless you think this is the only appropriate archery role model:









Keep those ankles and wrists covered ladies, lest the gentlemen become overcome with lust! :mg:


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## Dacer (Jun 10, 2013)

Only on AT....


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Curious, do either of you have kids?


What's your point? That everyone who has kids agrees with you on this? Because I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.


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## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

Although not what I would consider young anymore, I have a child. But I didn't know I was on parent opinions only forum.  

Yes Dacer, only on AT.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

dacer said:


> only on the internet....


fify.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

BobCo19-65 said:


> Although not what I would consider young anymore, I have a child. But I didn't know I was on parent opinions only forum.
> 
> Yes Dacer, only on AT.


You didn't answer my other question. 

And no, everyone's opinion's matter, but the opinions of those who have kids matter more when it comes to things that affect kids. But those without them never seem to agree with that. LOL.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

There is a difference between nudity and pornography, nudity tastefully photographed is just that, if it offends you or you think of it as inappropriate, this is a YOU problem.
also a climate issue I think, being raised in warmer places and more so, beach environments makes one a lot more comfortable with half naked people as its the norm, north Americans aren't so comfortable with it obviously, it understandable we are a product of our environment. Form what I have seen, the espn photographs show strong confident people not all with a+ bodies but still strong and confident, how this is viewed is not appropriate? I don't see it.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow said:


> What's your point? That everyone who has kids agrees with you on this? Because I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.


Nice job of putting words in my mouth.

This discussion will fall along very familiar lines. Kids vs. no kids, socially conservative vs. socially liberal.

And nobody will change anyone else's mind.

Carry on.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Kind of shocks you sometimes when discussing issues in different cultures and societies to see how sexist and partiarchal some still are. I'm at bit shocked that feminism hasn't filtered through to USA.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Let's simplify this, would you be unhappy if your girls grew up to be Khatuna Lorig? And how would your answer be different today than it was a week ago?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Nice job of putting words in my mouth.


Not what I did, yet you don't actually disagree with the idea that your statement was meant to imply that my opinion was either not valid or less valid than yours for lack of children, for otherwise your post woukd make no sense and would be a complete non sequitur.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Much ado over nothing.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow, 

Oh, nevermind.

Jason is right.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Warbow, you are not as qualified as a parent to comment on things that affect people's children. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.


Hmm...do I get to declare that you are not as qualified to judge naked people? I think not. :wink:

Anyway, it looks like you deleted your post about role models. I think that is unfortunate because think it was a good post, and one where I think we can agree in general, even as we disagree on this specific instance. While I'm certainty up for arguing for a position I think is reasonable, and for defending someone I think is being unfairly maligned, I also think that parents should be role models and that that isn't a job that should be outsourced to celebrities. And I agree with the priorities you mentioned, about making the world a better place, and about education over sports, and how sports gets too much recognition relative to the important jobs done every day.. So, quibbles aside, I actually agree with you a lot and you sound like an awesome dad with a great family.


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## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

limbwalker said:


> And no, everyone's opinion's matter, but the opinions of those who have kids matter more when it comes to things that affect kids.


I think that is more of a personal opinion. 

It's hard to comment on how to explain the situation to a child without seeing the complete context. If I needed to explain to another child in JOAD, I would probably consult with their parent(s) to be sure our opinions aligned.


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## yurmes (Apr 2, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> That does raise an interesting question too...
> 
> Will Khatuna make more money from her archery and archery related sponsors, or from posing for ESPN this year?


good question , for sure she can make in 10 times more moneY from ESPN ,then from archery. By the way even Serena Williams also were posing nude there, and her income we cannot compare with Khatunas. So money talks


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Hmm...do I get to declare that you are not as qualified to judge naked people? I think not.


You're from California. I have no doubt you are a better judge of naked people than I am.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

I am suddenly wondering what the discussion would be if this happened in reverse. Say a model (who is known for being scantily clad or doing nude shoots) decided to put their energy into archery and rises to an elite level. This, hypothetical, person has a trove of people who look up to them as a role model. Would y'all still be upset saying that young archers shouldn't look up to them?

A badly formed argument, I know, but I don't have a lot of time to type right now lol


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I'm saying young archers really shouldn't look up to any athlete as a role model until and unless that athlete has also proven they are improving society and are selflessly giving to others, and only then should the child view them as a role model - not for their athletic accomplishments, but for their behavior as a person.

Society today has blurred the lines between sports we play, and real life. It's become too easy for young people to believe that because someone is good at a sport, more attention should be paid to them than to someone who stinks at sports but spends their life helping others or solving real problems. If they happen to be physically attractive, then even MORE attention is paid to them.

I will go so far as to say this. It's very hard for a full-time athlete to make the same impact on the world as a full time teacher, firefighter, doctor, cancer researcher, clergy or any other professional who has committed a lifetime to educating themselves on the world's issues, and then spends their days working to cure them. 

By definition, full time athletes have to be selfish. They have to spend their time training at their craft, or risk being beaten enough times that they are no longer able to support themselves as athletes. This allows little time to pursue education and careers that truly change the world. 

Some full-time athletes transcend sport and do change the world. But very, very few have the opportunity to do that, and remain competitive. In archery, those opportunities are even fewer since we cannot raise the kind of awareness and money that a more well known athlete can. Someone like Maria Sharapova or Jordan Speith can spend a weekend hosting a benefit tournament and probably raise millions. In addition, they gain viewers and TV time and can bring awareness to serious issues. I love it when I see high profile professional athletes do these things and truly "give back." Unfortunately, small sports like archery don't afford those opportunities, so one really has to think about how much time they are spending in this sport, and what the outcomes may be for themselves, and for the greater good.

I struggle with this notion as an archery coach sometimes. Basically, I'm teaching someone how to play. Recreation. Entertainment. Is that really the highest and best use of my time and talents? Many of us coaches wonder this same thing. Sure we try to teach other life lessons through archery like perserverance, courage, teamwork, sticking with things and not quitting, but is archery the best way to teach these things, or are we indulging ourselves by applying our time and talents to teach a sport we enjoy? Would our time and talents be better spent volunteering at the local hospital? On our weekends, should we be organizing fund raisers for our schools or medical research instead of archery tournaments? Is archery really that important of a cause?

Athletes as role models? Hmm. 

We need to be teaching our kids that their teachers, the police officer, our military veterans, their pastors and their parents are their role models. Athletes are by and large, entertainers. Let's keep that in perspective.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I'm saying young archers really shouldn't look up to any athlete as a role model until and unless that athlete has also proven they are improving society and are selflessly giving to others, and only then should the child view them as a role model - not for their athletic accomplishments, but for their behavior as a person.
> 
> Society today has blurred the lines between sports we play, and real life. It's become too easy for young people to believe that because someone is good at a sport, more attention should be paid to them than to someone who stinks at sports but spends their life helping others or solving real problems. If they happen to be physically attractive, then even MORE attention is paid to them.
> 
> ...


Great post. Well said and I couldn't agree more.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Warbow said:


> Has anyone - anyone - said that? :dontknow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I TOTALLY AGREE with this - kids absolutely look to the reaction of adults as their cue.

"...strong, fit and confident in their 40's ... " and willing to be photographed mostly naked for money and fame ... I've noticed Khatuna's very athletic, fit physique many times - but I wouldn't be happy if my daughter posed nude for money. I guess that makes me a little bit of a hypocrite, or just human (or just 'human and not really old yet').

Oh, and Warbow, I was in California for a week or so in April, the last couple of days in SF - couldn't believe how fit and neat almost everyone downtown was. My group commented on it a lot. Amazing. Then I got back to Tulsa, and was eye opened to how 'non fit' so many people here seem to be. So kudos to SF'ers for being fit and active and dressing sharp (although I'll skip the parades).


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I think people are hard wired to seek transcendence in various forms, and some athletes - the ones with that indefinable something more, beyond mere technical skill - are able, through the beauty and skillfulness of their performance, to lift, inspire, and thrill our spirits. Watching a sporting event in person with other people when the athletes do something magnificent, and you leap to your feet along with the other spectators, and for those moments you aren't alone in your head - your spirit is connected to everyone else in the stadium. We aren't in the stadium because of the athletes. They're on the field because of our need in the stands. Sometimes athletics is more than entertainment - it's edifying.


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

Warbow said:


> Has anyone - anyone - said that? :dontknow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so accurate, and true


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

lksseven said:


> I TOTALLY AGREE with this - kids absolutely look to the reaction of adults as their cue.
> 
> "...strong, fit and confident in their 40's ... " and willing to be photographed mostly naked for money and fame ... I've noticed Khatuna's very athletic, fit physique many times - but I wouldn't be happy if my daughter posed nude for money. I guess that makes me a little bit of a hypocrite, or just human (or just 'human and not really old yet').
> 
> Oh, and Warbow, I was in California for a week or so in April, the last couple of days in SF - couldn't believe how fit and neat almost everyone downtown was. My group commented on it a lot. Amazing. Then I got back to Tulsa, and was eye opened to how 'non fit' so many people here seem to be. So kudos to SF'ers for being fit and active and dressing sharp (although I'll skip the parades).


Same was true when Karin and I visited the Portland area. Fit, neat and tidy. I think our southern food and air conditioning keeping everyone inside during the summer months may have something to do with that Larry. Well, that and the fact that if you exercise too much in the South, you might be mistaken for a liberal. LOL!


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

theminoritydude said:


> Say, does Katuna read AT posts? Just wondering.....



aquila non capit muscas


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

MickeyBisco said:


> aquila non capit muscas


+1 I believe women with her level of confidence wouldn't blink at this 5 pages of blabla, I would imagine she will do as she pleases, and good for her.


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## Mormegil (Jan 26, 2012)

I have no dog in this fight (I'm an Australian so I'm unlikely to point out Khatuna as a role model for my daughter) but I do find it amusing that the most controversial topics on the FITA forum seem to revolve around barebow and bare bowing.


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## Varza (Sep 11, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> you have young daughters? Young JOAD club members? If one of them comes up to you and asks about this, what is your response?


"Oh, that's just a naked lady. You'll look like that too when you grow up... if you're lucky." Heck I see a variation of it every night in the shower every night. I just don't see what all the fuss is about.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

This is much ado about nothing. There won't be any nudity (none of the athletes are actually nude). Chances are it's not even cleverly implied nudity. It will just be a fantastic archer and role model in minimalistic workout attire.


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## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

Parents should be the most significant influence (role model) on their kids. No arguing that......however, when one of my kids has passion for something that I am not particularly 'successful' with, I want them to 'look up to' someone who is (or has been) successful in that area who STILL STRIVE TO REFLECT THE VALUES my wife and I have tried to instill in our kids. 

While there was never a doubt, reading this dialog further showed that lots of folks have different values from each other and that seems to be what much of this 'dialog' is about. People are entitled to their own opinions and values, but I'm entitled to not agree with them when they are wrong. 

For the record, from what I've seen and read on AT, I'd be happy to have either of my kids look to Mr. Magura (or a few others here) as a role model. I've never seen/read of him intentionally doing something inconsistent with the values I'm trying to instill in my kids. Heck, he might be MY role model! Could he make a mistake, admit that mistake, and strive not to make the mistake again and still retain 'role model' status in my book? Yup. Forgiven. But (and I think he'd understand), if I heard of him intentionally doing something inconsistent with my values, I reserve the right to suggest that he would no longer be a good role model...at least for someone with my values. He certainly didn't ask to be my role model, but with a certain amount of 'fame', the possibility exits that others who only know 'of' you, may elect to look to you as a role model....it's the price of that fame. Recognizing that and conducting one's self with that in mind is what we're talking about here. That doesn't mean you have to be everything to everyone...but when there's fame, there's also more opportunity for criticism by whatever particular subset of humanity that does not agree with your actions. 

Same with Ms Lorig's ESPN photo shoot. Being willing to participate reflects her values. Those values mesh fine with some, and for others, not so much. From those in the 'not so much' camp will come criticism. If it were some unknown archer with a similar physique in the photos, the criticism would likely have been less because no one would have known who to criticize!

When views/values don't mesh, we need to still be able to keep the dialog civil. One should be able to explain their views without resorting to name-calling or other disrespectful acts...but that appears to be a lost art these days. Taking anything and polarizing it as the only way to get your view across seems to be all the rage these days. Disappointing.


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## SWOreBowHunter (Apr 13, 2013)

Bryce Harper, LMAO!


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Here ya go- not safe for work if abs are offensive-

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-comme...g-41-confident-happy-espn-magazine-body-issue


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

I asked her about it this past weekend. She shared some details. We crossed paths a few times. 

My opinion has not changed.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

So are you saying that parents should be the role models and disregard the celebrity status
or
are you saying that only with celebrity status that agree with you should be role models


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Nor has mine, I think it's fantastic. 

Either way, I reckon she'll do fine. She certainly had a great weekend!


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

Fury90flier said:


> So are you saying that parents should be the role models and disregard the celebrity status
> or
> are you saying that only with celebrity status that agree with you should be role models


A role model can be anyone in a position of responsibility. A parent, teacher, coach, a.n. other guardian, etc. However, often, youths are influenced by pop culture icons. Good, bad or indifferent. 

It's not a case of choosing who role models should be, but icons recognizing that they are in a position of influence, and acting accordingly. 

That might be easier said than done. 

Khatuna had a great weekend, for sure. But I know she was constantly on the go, getting it in the ear from those around her, and obviously worn out. Does she even get time to think about such things? Probably not. 

I'm kicking myself for not taking the conversation in that direction. She was very open to talking about the photo shoot.

I looked into her eyes and saw a person that I should care about. And I do. I pray for our archery heros. That's just who I am.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> It's not a case of choosing who role models should be, but icons recognizing that they are in a position of influence, and acting accordingly.


Do you even realize how self righteous that statement is? Has it occurred to you that she _is_ perhaps acting accordingly, just not adhering to _your_ particular idea of how she _should act? _

The supposition that anyone has an absolute definition of what is "role-model" worthy behavior is staggering, but when combined with the idea that they require prayer ... Well, the _real_ argument certainly comes into focus a good bit more.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> I looked into her eyes and saw a person that I should care about. And I do. *I pray for our archery heros.* That's just who I am.


To for her to what end, though? Just to wish her well? Or to change her in to what you wish she was?


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

MickeyBisco said:


> Do you even realize how self righteous that statement is?


Wow. Way to misinterpret my intention. I don't feel led to pray for her because of what she does, but because I care about her as a person. I don't think I could have stated that any more clearly.

We are all entitled to our opinions. Ours differ on what is acceptable for role model material. This thread has covered that at length.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

MickeyBisco said:


> Do you even realize how self righteous that statement is? Has it occurred to you that she _is_ perhaps acting accordingly, just not adhering to _your_ particular idea of how she _should act? _
> 
> The supposition that anyone has an absolute definition of what is "role-model" worthy behavior is staggering, but when combined with the idea that they require prayer ... Well, the _real_ argument certainly comes into focus a good bit more.


Lynda didn't say that Khatuna 'required' prayer. She said "she prayed for her archery heroes." What a nice gesture - everyone could use an extra prayer - it can't hurt. Maybe the secular would prefer "I wish her the best." Either way, the sentiment is laudable. Thanks, Lynda!


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

Warbow said:


> To for her to what end, though? Just to wish her well? Or to change her in to what you wish she was?


To put it in your language, wishing her well is about the closest description. I don't wish she was anything in particular. 

Please don't get on my case for caring about someone. Because that's what it boils down to.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Fine.Prayer aside.... act accordingly? Really?

According to...what, exactly? 


I see that you're probably a really nice person who cares about the kids she coaches. I get that. 

You have the right to disapprove, that's cool too. 

But realize, she's a shooter. A bad-ass lifelong competitor who has achieved a great amount, and earned a following. 

I think she's an awesome role model, and instructor. And not just for the exact reasons your feelings differ.

I bow to you, and admire you so I'll follow my signature's advice.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

lksseven said:


> Lynda didn't say that Khatuna 'required' prayer. She said "she prayed for her archery heroes." What a nice gesture - everyone could use an extra prayer - it can't hurt. Maybe the secular would prefer "I wish her the best." Either way, the sentiment is laudable. Thanks, Lynda!


Absolutely. Thank you for helping me clarify.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> To put it in your language, wishing her well is about the closest description. I don't wish she was anything in particular.
> 
> *Please don't get on my case for caring about someone. *Because that's what it boils down to.


I asked what you meant because it wasn't clear to me. I really am not seeing where you are getting that from my post.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Arguing morality on the internet never ends well.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

MickeyBisco said:


> But realize, she's a shooter. A bad-ass lifelong competitor who has achieved a great amount, and earned a following.


That's undeniable. I use her videos frequently with my students. She's a force to contend with in the archery world. 



> I bow to you, and admire you so I'll follow my signature's advice.


I don't see sigs on this phone app, so I'll just pray for you... lol... kidding. Instead, I'll just appreciate the sentiment, thank you. 

/bows


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> Arguing morality on the internet never ends well.


For the win!


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

Warbow said:


> I asked what you meant because it wasn't clear to me.


Well, hopefully that's been clarified now.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

Her pics are absolutely stunning.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

MickeyBisco said:


> Fine.Prayer aside.... act accordingly? Really?
> 
> According to...what, exactly?
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity, for you are there any limits beyond the pale? Asked without malice. The reason I ask is, this sentence above make me think "well, that also describes Dennis Rodman." [Disclaimer: I'm NOT equating Khatuna with Dennis Rodman. I'm interested in how different people - in this case you - arrive at a verdict of 'awesome role model'] Does your sentence thus qualify him as an awesome role model? If not, then what does qualify or disqualify him? Or is term 'role model' itself too dependent on each person's personal definition/lifeview to be discussed, really? What if it came out that he mistreated dogs and treated other competitors badly - would that be relevant?


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

lksseven said:


> Just out of curiosity, for you are there any limits beyond the pale? Asked without malice. The reason I ask is, this sentence above make me think "well, that also describes Dennis Rodman." Does your sentence thus qualify him as an awesome role model? If not, then what does qualify or disqualify him? Or is term 'role model' itself too dependent on each person's personal definition/lifeview to be discussed, really? What if it came out that he mistreated dogs and treated other competitors badly - would that be relevant?



Of course... each of us looks for qualities in a role model to admire, and aspire to. And yes, sometimes one's _idea _of a role model does something that is so contrary to one's own values they ...need a new role model. They needn't malign the previous one, though. Khatuna continues to fulfill that role for many, still. 
If you look back, I said I thought she was an amazing role model and instructor, as I was lucky enough to be coached by her for a time. As my role model, her focus and _game_ is priceless. 


In other words, I guess what I'm trying to say is... own your own disappointment. It's created from _your_ mind, and based on what you think a person is, to you. Entirely different than what they _are_, almost always. 



And yes, I definitely have things that would d'Q a potential role model.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

I checked the link above with the article/video and two things caught my attention: 

1. 51 pounds! 
2. Electric shock training! 

The rest is just art.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

MickeyBisco said:


> Fine.Prayer aside.... act accordingly? Really?
> 
> According to...what, exactly?
> 
> ...





MickeyBisco said:


> Of course... each of us looks for qualities in a role model to admire, and aspire to. And yes, sometimes one's _idea _of a role model does something that is so contrary to one's own values they ...need a new role model. They needn't malign the previous one, though. Khatuna continues to fulfill that role for many, still.
> If you look back, I said I thought she was an amazing role model and instructor, as I was lucky enough to be coached by her for a time. As my role model, her focus and _game_ is priceless.
> 
> 
> ...


Well, that's what I was asking about - some "for instances" ... Lynda identified that someone, who is looked up to by many kids, posing nude(ish) for money and publicity qualified as a 'for instance' of something that factored into her consideration of proper role model behavior. You took a pretty good swing at Lynda's 'for instance' - I thought you might want to give her a chance to do the same by spelling out a few of your own disqualifiers (although, being one of my role models, I don't think she would :wink: ).

Just being rhetorical at this point - no need to actually list them. I'm just entertained at the pots calling the kettle black at high volume. Khatuna's posing nude or nudish isn't of much real consequence in the big scheme of things. And I'm out on this topic.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

You entirely missed my point. I'd deal with my disappointment and move on. 

I don't expect athletes to be angels. I have a moral compass and don't look to an athlete to exemplify my ethics. 

Nudity wouldn't make the list, sorry. 

Violence or causing harm ( in any form) to a living creature, would. Does that clarify my position?

Oh, and Edit- if Lynda would like something specific I'd happily oblige, but I'm betting she's as done as I. I doubt she requires you to don the shiny armor. She spoke for herself quite eloquently.


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## Poutine (Aug 2, 2012)

I have a nephew who shoots JOAD and like boys his age (he's 12) he found a way to see the Body Issue. We're very close, and we had a talk about it (his idea). His reaction? nonplussed. This is because his parents raise him in an environment where the communication between members of the family about the human body and sexuality are frank and honest. He looks up to the US archers, and aspires to be an olympian some day. He realizes that Khatuna posed for the issue of her own volition, and that her reasons for doing it are hers and hers alone. I agree with those who say that the people freaking out about this body-positive movement are simply reflecting their own insecurities about the human form in all its frailties and vulnerabilities.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

Poutine said:


> I have a nephew who shoots JOAD and like boys his age (he's 12) he found a way to see the Body Issue. We're very close, and we had a talk about it (his idea). His reaction? nonplussed. This is because his parents raise him in an environment where the communication between members of the family about the human body and sexuality are frank and honest. He looks up to the US archers, and aspires to be an olympian some day. He realizes that Khatuna posed for the issue of her own volition, and that her reasons for doing it are hers and hers alone. I agree with those who say that the people freaking out about this body-positive movement are simply reflecting their own insecurities about the human form in all its frailties and vulnerabilities.


+1
Couldn't have said it better.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

I'm just disappointed that she's not using a prop bow of her chosen discipline. Everyone's a critic!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

The most shocking thing to me is that the Hoyt marketing dept. didn't figure out a way to get their logo on that wooden bow. I think we can all agree that's the biggest surprise of all.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Seattlepop said:


> I checked the link above with the article/video and two things caught my attention:
> 
> 1. 51 pounds!
> 2. Electric shock training!
> ...


I read the article and watched the video. Honestly, I'd like to read more of her story. It sounds like she's had a very interesting path to get where she is today. About the nudity, I couldn't care less except that I wish my arms and back were that toned.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

Good morning AT!

So, yes. It is tasteful - just as she told me. Honestly, I think the subject line elicited a reaction in me, "athletes pose nude"...

This storm in a teacup does not impact me personally, but I am still being mother hen over my young students. I often give homework of research and watching YouTube videos. I have many students who are not allowed to watch YouTube, and some are not even allowed on the Internet. So, I have to ask the parent's permission for them to be given access to do their homework. I will just have to be very specific with assignments so that young Lilly or Daisy does not pull up the headline, "top archery athlete poses nude". You catch my drift? 

Have a wonderful day, gang.


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## Poutine (Aug 2, 2012)

All it says is, "athletes pose nude". It doesn't say, "HOT! Sexy athletes bare all!".


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## Ranger 50 (Mar 2, 2012)

Are we really still writing about this?

(guess I am)


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## theminoritydude (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm here just to read about how many people continue to point out that this is no big deal......


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## Jason Pope (May 11, 2015)

"The Body" issue has never ever been about sexualizing the human body. It is always done tastefully and is usually a pretty neat thing to be invited to do. It features men and women all at their peaks of physical fitness. Tired of the mentality in the USA that the naked body is akin to the devil and sex.

Oh but hyper-violent movies and TV are just fine in the same eyes.. 
Good on her!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Oh but hyper-violent movies and TV are just fine in the same eyes..


No, they aren't.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

John, I agree they not the same but I have witnessed WAY more folks that Jason described than the way you are in that regard.


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## Darryl Longbow (Apr 11, 2003)

No two people will agree exactly the same on any issue, especially one that questions our take on morality. I do not know the person involved in this controversy on a personal basis so I have no right nor cause to make a judgement. My daughter is long grown so I have no axe to grind on that point. If it was her doing the pictures it would be her choice and her decision entirely. You raise em up the best you can, you try to instill what you see as the right way to go on things but in the end it is their decision. The archery lady has made her own choice, if it offends someone then don't look. If it does not offend don't try to make it seem some big moral issue. Arguing will never even if they are good logical arguments change the mind of another. Why is this subject such a attention getter on what is is susposedly an archery forum. Will it change your life for the better or the worse ? Will you change anybodies opinion ? No. With all that is going on in this world this is what we have to worry about ? Does anyone here actually know what went on about this ladies decision, why she choose to do or not do it ? Do you really care or do you just want to assert yourself over someone else so you can feel that you {won} an argument for your moral superiority or your view ? It just came to me over this weekend just how unimportant all this is, yes archery to and so many other things we do, GROW UP. I am done


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## mding (Aug 24, 2012)

I think we all know that a "body" issue is about appealing to people's "visual" interests
and when appealing to interests, the almighty $ is always an influence
cheers! :ranger:


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