# How many?



## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

of us field shooters have decided not to renew your state and NFAA membership this year?

for me, the never ending short-sightedness of the NFAA, cool kid's table groups, their closed door management practices and still blind to the use of the web as a great communication and public relations tool. yeah, they have a facebook page.....ooooo. that is most likely something Griv got them to buy off on. where is the membership 'swag'? a window sticker or shoulder patch would be a nice gesture.

the NFAA keeps telling us to put in an agenda item, but if it's something 'they' dont like or stirs the sediment up, it gets 'tabled'. officer's are derelict in their appointed duties and responsibilities. others are content with pushing them off on other, already work burdened staff. proposed changes are extremely difficult to get thru unless you know who to talk to and how to talk to them.....the usual politics game. too much 'whats in it for me' crap for me to accept. cloak and dagger management policies just plain piss me off.

the NFAA tells us to get involved with our state associations. ok....we do, so where does the NFAA help support the states? they dont. it's in the constitution....but rarely put to use. the only reason i can see the NFAA has for enforcing the 'get involved locally' thing is money. royalties from targets, insurance and the state fees.

unfortunately, the way the NFAA plays this game, is that in order to support the state, i have to support them. i feel bad that i cant support the ohio archers by themselves other than shooting their events as a guest.

i will miss getting my monthly ARCHERY mag, but, i can wait to read it online. Griv has done an awesome job with it.

i love the game, just hate the playas. my membership expires at midnite eastern tonite, so for those of you that are sticking with them, fight the good fight. for me, it was a financial decision. i'll still hang with the field crowd but i'll severely limit my activity in any of the NFAA specific stuff.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

WOW somebody is not happy


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

Rattleman said:


> WOW somebody is not happy


*Make that TWO SOMEBODIES....and you will be too if the NFAA continues to ignore their declining membership numbers and doing nothing about it....

It is going to dry up and blow away....GONE WITH THE WIND....:sad:

I feel sorry for the "Lifers" who paid up front thinking it was "their" lifetime they were paying all that money up front for....not the NFAAs....

I will continue to support my "North Carolina Archery Family"....as a Guest....*

.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *Make that TWO SOMEBODIES....and you will be too if the NFAA continues to ignore their declining membership numbers and doing nothing about it....
> 
> It is going to dry up and blow away....GONE WITH THE WIND....:sad:
> 
> ...


I am a Lifer but I do not know what they can really do. I feel that the states are the ones that need to find a way to increase membership since they are the ones that are more in-tune with the archery of their state. A couple of years ago 3D was tearin up the archery world but they are even seeing declines. Lets just face the facts. Archery is not mainstream. It is hard to be good and it takes lots of practice. Field archery has one big flaw and that is the no excuse factor. There are no excuses. When you mess up you mess up and some do not like that vulnerability. With the egos of today you need to have excuses. (Just having some fun here) If you have ideas then try them out in your state. If they work, more will employ your tactics. The NFAA is much like our Government, many expect to much instead of taking the bull by the horns and making something happen. This is just how I feel and if I ruffled your feathers then I am sorry but maybe this will add some perspective. Ed


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

*just paid my dues at state indoor*

I burned out and dropped out 25 years ago. Sure wish I had stayed with it.


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Just curious?*

We are in the same boat, as Rock Monkey. Our membership runs out at midnight, tonite. We are also debating renewing our membership? Ok, here's one of the things I am curious about? How much power do individual states have? As Ed stated the states need to take the bull by the horns? Aren't the individual states governed by the NFAA? So how much can individual states really do, short of just starting another org. as alot have already done! Which only seems to complicate things more! Please enlighten me, because I would like to make an informed decision? It also appears that if one state decides to deviate, if the adjoining states choose not to, then it really complicates things, and it's basically to no avail! Which is why it takes a philadeliphia lawyer, to figure which shoots we can attend legally, which btw, I think is the biggest bunch of BS i have ever heard of! Here's another thing I am curious about? How is it, that we can only shoot in one state shoot? But Canadians are allowed to compete in our National shoots? What's the diference between crossing the border of our Nation, and us crossing state lines? Not that I am against Canadians competeing in our shoots, I am all for that! That's in the best interest of archery, as a whole! I just think it's utterly rediculous, that if one of our bordering state's is having an open state shoot, and there is nothing else going on, that the NFAA would rather me stay home, than shoot in that's states shoot. Even if the said state says, all you have to be is an NFAA member, statehood doesn't matter, then I can shoot. But the kicker to that is, that I will have to forfit my homestate shoot! Is that BS, or what? We are a family of 4, that's 4 potential shooters. How is this rule condusive to promoting archery? I have heard all the reasons for it! I gather it was made way back in the day, when attendance was 4 times what it is now? I have not talked to many, who think this a good rule! There a few that will argue it, but not many! Another curiousity, what is good about the NFAA? I have heard alot of the cons, there must be some good? It seems everyone you talk to bash's them. Obviously they are dropping membership rapidily! But there must be some good? Again I am just trying to make an informed decision! Could it be, that if people, like me, want to compete, they will join, just because they basically have to, if they want to compete? Which when it's all said and done, is probably what I will do! Because shooting as a guest, is just like going out back and practising. Not to mention the clubs in our area only let you shoot as a guest a few times. Then insist you join some sort of org. I love the Outdoor, and Indoor game, but hate the petty politics!


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Not Me*

I'm paying my dues for a very important reason. The NFAA provides the framework for me to participate in my favorite game. If the NFAA goes then there will be no Outdoor Nationals, Sectionals, and probably the local shoots as well would dry up. Does this mean I am happy with the way things are going at the NFAA? Don't be silly. Too much power concentrated in too few people. Questional motivation and goals are driving the organization. A total lack of concern for what the members really want. So, no, I'm not happy with the management of the NFAA. I'll pay the dues and shoot field at every opportunity while hoping that new blood will rise to lead the organization to new heights in growth and promotion of field archery. Am I holding my breath waiting for this to happen? Probably not.


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Just as*

I suspected! So the question is, if we just keep paying for that reason, why should/would they ever change?


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

pennysdad said:


> I suspected! So the question is, if we just keep paying for that reason, why should/would they ever change?


In America we still have a voice(I think) If you don't use it no matter how often it falls on deaf ears, no change will ever take place. 

I remember once Got Lucky busted my chops for an issue, because it seemed all I was doing was complaining and not acting. Now I am sure she is voicing her complaints to the proper folks at the NFAA, but many voices make strong convictions heard and acted upon.
I will keep paying dues to the NFAA, just like I will continue to vote(repub), and continue to go to Church when the Business meetings separate people into peddy groups of dissagreement. Why because appathy, and inactivity cause things to dissolve and dissapear. Leaving us wondering, "what happen to the (__________) organization.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

rattleman said:


> i am a lifer but i do not know what they can really do.
> *Can any other "employee" of a company do nothing to grow their company's wealth...(or in this case membership) ....and still keep their job???.....*
> 
> i feel that the states are the ones that need to find a way to increase membership since they are the ones that are more in-tune with the archery of their state.
> ...


...........................................................................................


jbird said:


> i'm paying my dues for a very important reason. The nfaa provides the framework for me to participate in my favorite game. If the nfaa goes then there will be no outdoor nationals, sectionals,
> 
> *Jbird - I believe part of the problem is that the NFAA is now catering to the few....(big tournament shooters)...not the many (local shooters)...who were the foundation of the Organization. Probably 75% of the membership only want to shoot locally and maybe every once in a while attend the BIG Tournaments.... *
> 
> ...


...........................................................................



pennysdad said:


> i suspected! So the question is, if we just keep paying for that reason, why should/would they ever change?


*BINGO!!.......So if my vote isn't counted or voice listen to.....maybe the lack of my, and a few other
membership dollars will get their attention....Maybe not....but at least I know where my dollars will be spent.....in North Carolina!!
I will continue to support the North Carolina Org. By paying my full membership but only for it to be used to promote North Carolina....*


.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

pennysdad said:


> We are in the same boat, as Rock Monkey. Our membership runs out at midnight, tonite. We are also debating renewing our membership? Ok, here's one of the things I am curious about? How much power do individual states have? As Ed stated the states need to take the bull by the horns? Aren't the individual states governed by the NFAA? So how much can individual states really do, short of just starting another org. as alot have already done! Which only seems to complicate things more! Please enlighten me, because I would like to make an informed decision? It also appears that if one state decides to deviate, if the adjoining states choose not to, then it really complicates things, and it's basically to no avail! Which is why it takes a philadeliphia lawyer, to figure which shoots we can attend legally, which btw, I think is the biggest bunch of BS i have ever heard of! Here's another thing I am curious about? How is it, that we can only shoot in one state shoot? But Canadians are allowed to compete in our National shoots? What's the diference between crossing the border of our Nation, and us crossing state lines? Not that I am against Canadians competeing in our shoots, I am all for that! That's in the best interest of archery, as a whole! I just think it's utterly rediculous, that if one of our bordering state's is having an open state shoot, and there is nothing else going on, that the NFAA would rather me stay home, than shoot in that's states shoot. Even if the said state says, all you have to be is an NFAA member, statehood doesn't matter, then I can shoot. But the kicker to that is, that I will have to forfit my homestate shoot! Is that BS, or what? We are a family of 4, that's 4 potential shooters. How is this rule condusive to promoting archery? I have heard all the reasons for it! I gather it was made way back in the day, when attendance was 4 times what it is now? I have not talked to many, who think this a good rule! There a few that will argue it, but not many! Another curiousity, what is good about the NFAA? I have heard alot of the cons, there must be some good? It seems everyone you talk to bash's them. Obviously they are dropping membership rapidily! But there must be some good? Again I am just trying to make an informed decision! Could it be, that if people, like me, want to compete, they will join, just because they basically have to, if they want to compete? Which when it's all said and done, is probably what I will do! Because shooting as a guest, is just like going out back and practising. Not to mention the clubs in our area only let you shoot as a guest a few times. Then insist you join some sort of org. I love the Outdoor, and Indoor game, but hate the petty politics!


Well Jay some states have their own organization (Pa. for example) They make up their own rules BUT if any of them want to shoot the Nats or Sectionals they must belong to the NFAA. (That only makes sense in my opinion.) The problem with that is they HAVE different rules and the ones from that state that go to these shoots many times do not know our rules and therefore get DQ'd for an infraction. Also most clubs that I know use the NFAA insurances for their clubs. Like you know the more clubs that are involved the cheaper the insurance will be. The idea of being able to shoot in one state shoot makes sense to me also. Take this senario: A top FS shooter decides that he only wants to shoot the State Championships so he goes to every state that he can manage (due to only so many weekends in a year) an wins all that he enters. Or he goes to only ones that he knows that he can win. The residences of those states may get upset and not participate in there own shoot because they have no chance of winning. Remember most of these rules have come because someone from an earlier time forced these rules. Most people that shoot the NFAA sanctioned shoots really do not know anything other then their local shoots anyway. Most have never been to a Nationals or Sectionals. These people are just content on shooting locally. Same goes with members of the IBO or ASA. All organizations have their own pitfalls. Some members are really involved and take every item personally and some just go with the flow. So if you want to withhold your dues because of this, well it is your money but doesn't the fact that you can shoot make it worth while. Well only you can make that decision. Ed


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I'll keep paying my dues. The magazine is worth that much to me. Field is drying up at the local level. I can remember when there were a dozen ranges within a hundred mile radius of me, now there are two and both in Virginia. It's a pain in the ass to maintain a range when only a couple do all the work and everyone else complains because something should be done. Kinda like what I see going on here. Everyone complainsa bout the weather, but noone does anything about it... Our own apathy will eventually be the downfall of the NFAA. The resistance to change anything.... Would you consider doing away with the 80 and probably the 65 yard target to get more shooters??? I understand that is a major sticking point with the critter shooters. Would you consider shooting maby two arrow or three per target? I undertand that is also a sticking point. also a cash payout to amateurs. Or is it going to be" By God, that's the way we have always done it, and that's the way it will be." Same thing with having the nats Monday thru Friday. If we don't take the bull by the horns and do something, we're toast. As much as I dislike the way Bruce does things, I wouldn't spend any of the WAF money on a bunch of dinosaurs who won't change anything. Everything else in our lives change constantly. Why can't or WON'T our NFAA? The problen isn't in Yankton, it's with the grass roots level where the squeaky wheel gets the grease and no one wants to offend any one and they just let any change die because no one will dare think outside the box for fear of being tar and feathered. Just my opinion and By God, I ain't changin' Either.......


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## Crazy4Centaurs (Feb 8, 2010)




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## FitaX10 (Aug 1, 2002)

A person could always join the NAA and shoot the nationals if they didnt want to support the NFAA but wanted to shoot. THey have a reciprocal aggreement. 
Chris


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

I've continued to pay my dues despite my own lack of participation. Call me stupid...but I do enjoy Field archery and wish to continue the support. 

I will *NEVER* understand why the NFAA refuses to use many of the information resources available to promote the product...but I'm hoping someday they will see the light.


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

mag41vance said:


> In America we still have a voice(I think) If you don't use it no matter how often it falls on deaf ears, no change will ever take place.
> 
> I remember once Got Lucky busted my chops for an issue, because it seemed all I was doing was complaining and not acting. Now I am sure she is voicing her complaints to the proper folks at the NFAA, but many voices make strong convictions heard and acted upon.
> I will keep paying dues to the NFAA, just like I will continue to vote(repub), and continue to go to Church when the Business meetings separate people into peddy groups of dissagreement. Why because appathy, and inactivity cause things to dissolve and dissapear. Leaving us wondering, "what happen to the (__________) organization.


In America, what speaks any louder than the almighty dollar? What brings housing, and realestate prices down? People stop buying! What brings gas prices down? People stop paying! What happens when people go on strike? It hits corporations in the pocket! History tells us, in "America" talk usually gets us nowhere! But money, or the lack there of, speaks volumes! As far as disbanning, causing clubs to cease, and shoots to end, is rediculous! The NFAA doesn't keep the clubs going, and shooters shooting! It's the shooters, the little guys like me, and the big dogs, that love to compete against one another! As long as there is bows, and arrows, there will be shooters, shooting! Yes, there does need to be a governing org. or it would be anarchy! But it needs to be for the shooters, by the shooters! The ASA shows us that it doesn't take very long to form a very successful org.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> I'll keep paying my dues. The magazine is worth that much to me. Field is drying up at the local level. I can remember when there were a dozen ranges within a hundred mile radius of me, now there are two and both in Virginia. It's a pain in the ass to maintain a range when only a couple do all the work and everyone else complains because something should be done. Kinda like what I see going on here. Everyone complainsa bout the weather, but noone does anything about it... Our own apathy will eventually be the downfall of the NFAA. The resistance to change anything.... *1)Would you consider doing away with the 80 and probably the 65 yard target to get more shooters???* I understand that is a major sticking point with the critter shooters. *2) Would you consider shooting maby two arrow or three per target? I undertand that is also a sticking point*. also a *3)cash payout to amateurs*. Or is it going to be" By God, that's the way we have always done it, and that's the way it will be." Same thing with having the nats Monday thru Friday. If we don't take the bull by the horns and do something, we're toast. As much as I dislike the way Bruce does things, I wouldn't spend any of the WAF money on a bunch of dinosaurs who won't change anything. Everything else in our lives change constantly. Why can't or WON'T our NFAA? The problen isn't in Yankton, it's with the grass roots level where the squeaky wheel gets the grease and no one wants to offend any one and they just let any change die because no one will dare think outside the box for fear of being tar and feathered. Just my opinion and By God, I ain't changin' Either.......


1)- We tried that here in NC for exactly the reason you're giving. Created something called the Carolina Field. Dropped the Bunny, 80 WU, 15, and 45 WU. Shortened the round and got rid of the scary 80 yard shot...Result- less people showed up. The chewies still didn't come-they just came up with a different excuse, and the field guys didn't want to shoot it either...

2)- That game already exists its called FITA Field- even less people shoot that...

3)- That's the primary reason I don't shoot 3-D. I believe (maybe inaccurately but I don't think so...) that most all of the "pencil pushing", "line pulling", "binocular ranging", etc that we hear about at 3-d shoots is a direct result of money being involved. If you want to win money at it, get good enough to shoot the pro-class and have at it...very few people make enough to cover their expenses let alone a living shooting their bow, but you would never know that at a local 3-d shoot...

IMHO, the reality is that we need to target our efforts at attracting new shooters, not folks that are already entrenched in the 3-D game. We will still get the ones in 3-D that try it and stay, but changing our game to cater to them is only going to hurt us in the long run.

Most of the reasons I've heard from 3-d shooters are really just excuses. They have the game they enjoy, and aren't willing to step out of their comfort zone for whatever reason, and that's fine. The few that are brave enough to come out and try it generally come back...

Oh and BTW...I will continue to join and work to support the NCFAA/NFAA regardless of my disagreements with the way things are going. We can't all have our way all the time. I'm still bent about the arrow rule/wait no arrow rule from a few years ago...


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I paid my dues. Now is the time for all of us that don't really approve of the way things are going to keep up the fight. As a member of the NCFAA/NFAA, I can help promote this sport and try to encourage others to join in the fun. Get people to join HERE. Help build ranges HERE. Because HERE is where I shoot the most. No different than anybody else. 

If we take some of the mushroom food that comes down from Yankton and add some water and sunlight, we can grow this sport and help it become the organization it truly can be again. If we all walk away, then we may have nothing to return to later.


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## pennysdad (Sep 26, 2004)

*Yeah I know!*



Rattleman said:


> Well Jay some states have their own organization (Pa. for example) They make up their own rules BUT if any of them want to shoot the Nats or Sectionals they must belong to the NFAA. (That only makes sense in my opinion.) The problem with that is they HAVE different rules and the ones from that state that go to these shoots many times do not know our rules and therefore get DQ'd for an infraction. Also most clubs that I know use the NFAA insurances for their clubs. Like you know the more clubs that are involved the cheaper the insurance will be. The idea of being able to shoot in one state shoot makes sense to me also. Take this senario: A top FS shooter decides that he only wants to shoot the State Championships so he goes to every state that he can manage (due to only so many weekends in a year) an wins all that he enters. Or he goes to only ones that he knows that he can win. The residences of those states may get upset and not participate in there own shoot because they have no chance of winning. Remember most of these rules have come because someone from an earlier time forced these rules. Most people that shoot the NFAA sanctioned shoots really do not know anything other then their local shoots anyway. Most have never been to a Nationals or Sectionals. These people are just content on shooting locally. Same goes with members of the IBO or ASA. All organizations have their own pitfalls. Some members are really involved and take every item personally and some just go with the flow. So if you want to withhold your dues because of this, well it is your money but doesn't the fact that you can shoot make it worth while. Well only you can make that decision. Ed


Like I said I have heard all the reasons for the State thing! But it still erks me! I know in the big scheme of things, we are probably the odd guys out! Because of our location. We live within easy driving distance of 4 states! Which could be a very good thing, if we weren't restrained by the NFAA! As you know, we are more about shooting, and socializing, than winning! However I do like the mental aspect of competeing! That's why shooting as a guest is just like going out back and practicing! The PSAA, is a good example! They have an open State shoot. But if we decide to participate, we must frofeit all other NFAA sanctioned State shoots! That aint doing anybody any good! I still can't believe that the majority would rather by default, than skill! We would gladly shoot all 4 states, supporting archery, as a family! Are we gonna win anything, doubtful! But we will be enjoying the competition, and making friends! But we are being restrained by the NFAA! When was this rule incorporated? What was attendance like when it was incorporated? What is attendance doing now? Are clubs pleased with attendance levels? Are bottom lines pleasing? I know your clubs situation, as far as the bottom line dollar, is a little diferent than most! So obviously things need to change! we will rejoin, just because we like to shoot! The bottom line is we just want to shoot as much as possible, but are being restrained by the NFAA! Which just seems rediculous in todays declining attendance levels!


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Naa*



FitaX10 said:


> A person could always join the NAA and shoot the nationals if they didnt want to support the NFAA but wanted to shoot. THey have a reciprocal aggreement.
> Chris



Chris, while what you say is true I believe if enough people did that it would be the death blow to Field Archery. The rest of the story is that the NAA is even worse than the NFAA in supporting what most of us really love (Compound Field Archery). The NAA charges outrageous fees and still runs constantly in the red. Couple that with an even skimpyer schedule of tournament opportunites in Texas (unless you are collegiate or Joad). All of these people talking about witholding financial support (dues, etc.) from the NFAA while driven by good intentions would likely drive the NFAA out of business and I don't see ANYONE else on the horizon that has the least desire to revive Field Archery and the funds to do so. There are just a few of us left that really love the sport and precious few of those willing to do the work to create and maintain ranges. Thank goodness for you and the others willing to haul the water at Tyler Archery Club.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

psargeant said:


> 1)- We tried that here in NC for exactly the reason you're giving. Created something called the Carolina Field. Dropped the Bunny, 80 WU, 15, and 45 WU. Shortened the round and got rid of the scary 80 yard shot...Result- less people showed up. The chewies still didn't come-they just came up with a different excuse, and the field guys didn't want to shoot it either...
> 
> 2)- That game already exists its called FITA Field- even less people shoot that...
> 
> ...


I don't shoot 3D for the very same reason. I don't now the answer, but I do know that most spotties are hard line type A personalities and very resistent to change. I think it will be the death of us and Bruce is farsighted enough to see it.. Everything that amounts to a change is quickly shot down period. New shooters is the answer, but I will say when you start talking about 80 yards it takes newbies right out of their comfort zone and you have lost them fron the word go. I do as much as I can to try and get people to shoot, but there's a lot of times I feel I'm beating the proverbial dead horse. I have a couple of ideas for some changes and will submit them for the next big meeting. I'm feel sure they will be shot down also, but someone has to suggest something because what we're doing is not working.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> I don't shoot 3D for the very same reason. I don't now the answer, but I do know that most spotties are hard line type A personalities and very resistent to change. I think it will be the death of us and Bruce is farsighted enough to see it.. Everything that amounts to a change is quickly shot down period. New shooters is the answer, but I will say when you start talking about 80 yards it takes newbies right out of their comfort zone and you have lost them fron the word go. I do as much as I can to try and get people to shoot, but there's a lot of times I feel I'm beating the proverbial dead horse. I have a couple of ideas for some changes and will submit them for the next big meeting. I'm feel sure they will be shot down also, but someone has to suggest something because what we're doing is not working.


All of us need to minimize the 80 yard issue to new archers. Its only 2 arrows on a Field round...and with a little practice scoring at this distance is no big deal. All I'm saying is keep the approach *POSITIVE*.

I hate to see any changes to the existing rounds. Everytime the NFAA makes a change to increase participation we see the exact opposite result. Shall I mention the 5-3 target debacle................:zip:


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## Indianbullet (Jan 18, 2003)

mdbowhunter said:


> All of us need to minimize the 80 yard issue to new archers. Its only 2 arrows on a Field round...and with a little practice scoring at this distance is no big deal. All I'm saying is keep the approach *POSITIVE*.
> 
> I hate to see any changes to the existing rounds. Everytime the NFAA makes a change to increase participation we see the exact opposite result. Shall I mention the 5-3 target debacle................:zip:


Exactly my God we used to shoot it with recurve's and used a prism site if you needed. And by some miracle the arrow still got to the target and what a nice arch it made. 
I can't imagine changing the round guess I'm a die hard it just amazes me that people are afraid to shoot an arrow at 80 yards, I wish I had the answer to turn more folks on to the sport. Guess I was blessed growing up in it and didn't know any different. Many yrs back in Blue Springs I was never so disappointed in my life at the Nationals, we got rained out in the first morning and all the targets were left out in the rain and were basically ruined for the tournament it was so poorly ran from my past experiences I was heart broken to say the least.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Thank you guys for helping make my point about change. And let me say the 5-3 target was IMO a damn good change, but noone gave it a chance for the very same reason... No change. I guess everyone likes this giant four ring. Whether it's one arrow or fifty, the eighty yard thing puts people who haven't shot out of their comfort zone, so let's just keep everything the way it is and let nature take it's course. I'm in favor of doing away with the 80 and the 65 and replacing it with a 60 and 55 shot at a 50CM face. Bet no one will like that either. And going to three arrow/target to help keep damage to a minimum, of course someone won't like that idea either. Shortening the round by taking away the long ones is OK, but the reason in my mind is you lost the regulars is that not everyone is a Jesse or a Reo and they depend on those shorties to help their score. You got to get to give.... I give up. I'm sixty. I'll shoot till I can't anymore or dead or field dies. I'm betting on field dying first......


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I re-enlisted at the spring indoor. Basically I do it to support the CSAA, which is a top-notch organization.

If I could though, I'd ONLY support them and cut all ties with the NFAA until they straighten up their act.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

i started a thread so that the interested national membership can discuss and refine agenda item submissions. some are more gifted at crafting the language needed for these changes than others. that's part of that thread's purpose.

it will also get the word out to the bill paying members about what one guy in one state is asking of his state's leadership.

not all ideas will be perfect right away, but with a generous amount of time and exchange of information, we all can come up with a well written and unified proposal with the support of more than just one member and state.

remember, i did this so that the membership as a whole can benefit, not just 'me'

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1161041





Unclegus said:


> I don't shoot 3D for the very same reason. I don't now the answer, but I do know that most spotties are hard line type A personalities and very resistent to change. I think it will be the death of us and Bruce is farsighted enough to see it.. Everything that amounts to a change is quickly shot down period. New shooters is the answer, but I will say when you start talking about 80 yards it takes newbies right out of their comfort zone and you have lost them fron the word go. I do as much as I can to try and get people to shoot, but there's a lot of times I feel I'm beating the proverbial dead horse. *I have a couple of ideas for some changes and will submit them for the next big meeting.* I'm feel sure they will be shot down also, but someone has to suggest something because what we're doing is not working.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Indianbullet said:


> Exactly my God we used to shoot it with recurve's and used a prism site if you needed. And by some miracle the arrow still got to the target and what a nice arch it made.
> I can't imagine changing the round guess I'm a die hard it just amazes me that people are afraid to shoot an arrow at 80 yards, I wish I had the answer to turn more folks on to the sport. Guess I was blessed growing up in it and didn't know any different. Many yrs back in Blue Springs I was never so disappointed in my life at the Nationals, we got rained out in the first morning and all the targets were left out in the rain and were basically ruined for the tournament it was so poorly ran from my past experiences I was heart broken to say the least.


Same psychology that will make a guy drive a hundred miles to buy a new top of the line bow for 1190.00 rather than buy it next door for 1200.00 or won't buy gas for 2.85 when it's 2.84 ten miles away. Humans are funny creatures. And yes, this round was invented for stick bows and cedar arrows and the spot was just an aiming dot.... Archery equipment has changed a lot since then, With the equipment now, maby we should shoot about 150 yards?:wink:


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> Thank you guys for helping make my point about change. And let me say the 5-3 target was IMO a damn good change, but noone gave it a chance for the very same reason... No change. I guess everyone likes this giant four ring. Whether it's one arrow or fifty, the eighty yard thing puts people who haven't shot out of their comfort zone, so let's just keep everything the way it is and let nature take it's course. I'm in favor of doing away with the 80 and the 65 and replacing it with a 60 and 55 shot at a 50CM face. Bet no one will like that either. And going to three arrow/target to help keep damage to a minimum, of course someone won't like that idea either. Shortening the round by taking away the long ones is OK, but the reason in my mind is you lost the regulars is that not everyone is a Jesse or a Reo and they depend on those shorties to help their score. You got to get to give.... I give up. I'm sixty. I'll shoot till I can't anymore or dead or field dies. I'm betting on field dying first......


Don't get me wrong Gus...I'm all for listening to ideas that might help. But give me *ONE* example in organized archery (Field, FITA or 3-D) where changing scoring...rounds...targets...equipment...increased participation?


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I guess then the future is inevitable if no one can come up with ideas to fix it. Maby its time is past?? When it takes little effort to set up a few unmarked critters and draw thousands of shooters, and a well conceived well maintained course struggles to survive, the hand writing is on the wall????? In fact speak of change. after shooting stick bow or round wheels and fingers for 48 years, i just bought my first cam bow from the AT classifieds to play with a BT hook to delve into the possibility of shooting critters. If you can't beat them, then join them. I bought a GP Sweet seat year before last. I should fit in quite well because at my age,the travel and the social aspect attracts me more than the bickering and being hurried around the range like we were at Mechanicsburg. I could even care less about the penciling anymore... I'm going to go see what the other side is all about. Never hurts to broaden your horizons. I'll still shoot field, but I won't live and die by it anymore. And I'll bet there are a lot of people who feel pretty much the same way.....:cocktail::cocktail::darkbeer:


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> I guess then the future is inevitable if no one can come up with ideas to fix it. Maby its time is past?? When it takes little effort to set up a few unmarked critters and draw thousands of shooters, and a well conceived well maintained course struggles to survive, the hand writing is on the wall????? In fact speak of change. after shooting stick bow or round wheels and fingers for 48 years, i just bought my first cam bow from the AT classifieds to play with a BT hook to delve into the possibility of shooting critters. If you can't beat them, then join them. I bought a GP Sweet seat year before last. I should fit in quite well because at my age,the travel and the social aspect attracts me more than the bickering and being hurried around the range like we were at Mechanicsburg. I could even care less about the penciling anymore... I'm going to go see what the other side is all about. Never hurts to broaden your horizons. I'll still shoot field, but I won't live and die by it anymore. And I'll bet there are a lot of people who feel pretty much the same way.....:cocktail::cocktail::darkbeer:


John: You know that I love you like a Brother but I have to disagree. You are correct in assuming that many of us are Type A's so with that being said allow me to add something here. You and I have agreed in the past that when someone enters into our country and they try and change the way things operate we all get upset. (No Christmas holiday just a winter break, NO Easter now just Spring Break) Well in archery "I" feel the same way. When I came along way back when I learned to adapt to the rules. Not change them to make me happy. I feel that we changed too much over the last decade to try and make everyone happy and still we lost membership. The rules are not what makes the sport but the people involved. The game doesn't need to change nor the rules. We just need more people that like to shoot and meet new friends. Todays generation is lost when it comes to commitments ansd field archery requires commitment.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Bunky, you hit the nail right on the head. Rule changes won't help. I thought if we shortened the round and gave a few easy targets, it might be enough to hold a few of their attentions, but one arrow in twenty minutes is probably all they can handle....  See you at Eutaw Forest. If it wasn't for Dale and Zack, I probably would have already hung it up.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Rattleman said:


> John: You know that I love you like a Brother but I have to disagree. You are correct in assuming that many of us are Type A's so with that being said allow me to add something here. You and I have agreed in the past that when someone enters into our country and they try and change the way things operate we all get upset. (No Christmas holiday just a winter break, NO Easter now just Spring Break) Well in archery "I" feel the same way. When I came along way back when I learned to adapt to the rules. Not change them to make me happy. I feel that we changed too much over the last decade to try and make everyone happy and still we lost membership. The rules are not what makes the sport but the people involved. The game doesn't need to change nor the rules. We just need more people that like to shoot and meet new friends. Todays generation is lost when it comes to commitments ansd field archery requires commitment.


Bunkster: let me also add that the Colonel has been shooting some ASA and he has asked many of the shooters why they won't shoot field. The three main reasons or excuses which ever you choose to believe are: They don't want to shoot 80Y. Too many arrows in a round, and no cash payouts to amateurs. Take it with a grain of salt or whatever.......


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Unclegus said:


> Bunkster: let me also add that the Colonel has been shooting some ASA and he has asked many of the shooters why they won't shoot field. The three main reasons or excuses which ever you choose to believe are: They don't want to shoot 80Y. Too many arrows in a round, and no cash payouts to amateurs. Take it with a grain of salt or whatever.......


Another is I am a hunter and that is why I shoot 3D but they fail to mention that they do not shoot alligators, jackalopes, dull sheep skunks and we all know that the average shot in hunting is about 50yards


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

OK, I surrender. No more ideas from Unclegus. I'll just fade into the sunset and let others figure it out.....or not. Anything and pretty much everything that comes up for discussion on AT winds up in a dead end. Just like the NFAA annual meetings.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I read nearly all the posts, but NOT all of them.

One thing that keeps coming up is the "fear of the 80 yard and 70 yard shots" by the 3-Der and the bowhunter.

What hypocrites those groups of people are!

Go to any 3-D or bowhunter shoot...and you most likely will have a 3-D animal sitting out at 80, 90, or even 100 yards UNMARKED, without any backstopping at all. Those same people that will NOT shoot at a MARKED 80 yard target that is over 2 feet around...and a bale that is at least 3 FEET square....will shoot $12 to $15 arrows at an UNMARKED 3-D animal at 80, 90, or even 100 yards or more ALL DAY LONG...and trash countless arrows...and laugh about it!

They see little to no risk on completely missing the 3-D animal...and are perfectly willing to take that risk and trash arrows all day long.

Better yet, is the "steel turkey"...where there is a plate steel image of an animal (normally a turkey, but can be anything) set out at an UNMARKED distance and the steel plate has a hole in it...If you get thru the hole, then you get BONUS POINTS...often times 20 or 30 BONUS points for your 3-D round....of course, if you don't, then it is a "0" and a trashed $12-$15 arrow....These guys will again, shoot that thing time and time again...and laugh about it.

BUT, give them a MARKED DISTANCE target that they are nearly always going to at least hit the bale...and their EXCUSE is that it is "too far away" and "too hard to hit."

Frankly, I'm sick of it...they will NOT shoot field no matter what carrot you put on the stick...plain and simple...as one of the earlier posters said, "There is NO EXCUSE to be given when you miss on a field round." The entire onus falls upon the SHOOTER... On a 3-D or bowhunter course...the built-in excuse (even for a left or right miss) is "I mis-judged the yardage."

Blast away if you will...but....again, if you can't stand the TRUTH, then you will blast me...but you still KNOW that what I say is exactly what happens out there in the real world.

Then there are the "freeloaders" that want to shoot for the same awards as paid up MEMBERS of the STATE and the NATIONAL organization...but these people refuse to join the state and Nationals orgs...and want to free-load their way in. To these "free-loaders", I say, "PAY YOUR DUES....or you don't qualify for the awards." In addition, that is the rule, and it likely ain't gonna get changed by "free-loaders" voting in the change, haha.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Tom, You've been around the block a few times And are very insightful. What's your take on what's wrong with Field shooting????


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

*GESSSHHHHH......Come on Guys.....SUCK IT UP....what a bunch of WHIMPS!!!

If I can hit the 80 yarder....so can the rest of you!!

It's only 2 arrows and a darn good challenge....Yes, when I first started shooting Field I was only pulling 30 lbs.....and YES....I put my first arrow in the dirt 20 feet in from of the target...:sad: That was at my first Field Tournament....The World Field down in Australia!!

Now....I haven't missed the target...NO....they all are not in the center....but I keep trying...:wink:*


.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> Tom, You've been around the block a few times And are very insightful. What's your take on what's wrong with Field shooting????


Are you SURE you want to really HEAR (read) what I would have to say about this?

I already know that the powers at be would accuse me of "having a personal agenda that is not in the best interests of the organization, nor of archery in general." Or so SOME say/think that is the case, hahahaha.

Let me give this some thought so that I can tone it down, and still tell the TRUTH...but be prepared for me to call the kettle black.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

and you think I am not being quietly accused of a witch hunt because I expect the leadership to perform their appointed duties?



field14 said:


> Are you SURE you want to really HEAR (read) what I would have to say about this?
> 
> I already know that the powers at be would accuse me of "having a personal agenda that is not in the best interests of the organization, nor of archery in general." Or so SOME say/think that is the case, hahahaha.
> 
> ...


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

field14 said:


> Are you SURE you want to really HEAR (read) what I would have to say about this?
> 
> I already know that the powers at be would accuse me of "having a personal agenda that is not in the best interests of the organization, nor of archery in general." Or so SOME say/think that is the case, hahahaha.
> 
> ...


I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I've always been a tell it like it is kind of guy and pull no punches. Doesn't get me many Christmas cards, but always know where you stand with me......I saw one person who had at the bottom of their posts. 
"Telling the truth in Archery is a dangerous game."

I'll be waiting.......


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *GESSSHHHHH......Come on Guys.....SUCK IT UP....what a bunch of WHIMPS!!!
> 
> If I can hit the 80 yarder....so can the rest of you!!
> 
> ...


You go girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now...if that doesn't entice the hunters with their high poudage bows to give the 80 yard shot a try...I don't know what will. :wink:


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Inquiring minds want to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

Spoon13 said:


> Inquiring minds want to know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



*WHAT.....WHEN........WHY........HOW......or.....WHO????? *


.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *WHAT.....WHEN........WHY........HOW......or.....WHO????? *
> 
> 
> .


I was actually trying to respond to Field14 post but got caught in the page 1 page 2 thing. 

Sorry about any confusion, unless there is something you feel the need to divulge???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

"Bunky, you hit the nail right on the head. Rule changes won't help. I thought if we shortened the round and gave a few easy targets, it might be enough to hold a few of their attentions, but one arrow in twenty minutes is probably all they can handle.... See you at Eutaw Forest. If it wasn't for Dale and Zack, I probably would have already hung it up." 

Well, folks, I chose the above post, not because I disagree...but because it says a LOT about today's LAZY SHOOTERS! That's RIGHT...LAZY....narcissistic, self-centered, ME, ME, ME oriented and most are totally committed to instant gratification...getting something for nothing, or getting a "good grade" on anything and everything without having to WORK for it or put out any effort!

Here's the way I see it concerning what is "wrong" with field shooting.

NOTHING is wrong with field shooting...it is today's shooters that are the problem!

Take the 80 yard and 70 yard shots for example (2 of each, or 4 shots out off 112 for the day): W have tried for YEARS to entice the bowhunter and 3-D shooter to transition to field shooting...I'm sick of hearing "FOR the bowhunter this, and FOR the 3-D shooter that."
In a nutshell, NFAA could do everything they ask for...shorten the distances, shorten the number of arrows...make all the targets a GIMME...and those same HYPORCRITE 3-D shooters? They wouldn't show up anyways.

Here's my point: Go to any 3-D shoot or "bowhunter" oriented tournament, especially local ones. There always seems to be a "fun shoot" going on as a side-light, corrrect? Yep, you know....a 3-D target set out there across the place...80, 90, 100 yards or more away..UNMARKED. No back-stop. 3 shots for a dollar. Those HYPORCRITES that won't shoot an 80 or 70 yard MARKED yardage target that is over 2 feet in diameter on a bale that is at least 3 feet across...will shoot $12-$15 arrows all day long, have several go off into the trees...and LAUGH about it and try again! Yet, they won't shoot TWO shots in a round at MARKED 80 yards....and then COMPLAIN that field shooting is too far???

Or the "steel target"...you know the one set out there around 30 yards...steel plate the shape of an animal (normally a turkey)...with a hole cut into it. Go thru the hole with your shot...and get 30 BONUS POINTS....if you don't, then trash out a $12-$15 arrow...These people, most of whom aren't that good of a shooter anyways....will take that shot time and time again....trash arrow after arrow....and LAUGH ABOUT IT...but will they shoot 4 arrows at a MARKED distance field target at 30 yards? NOT! The "target is too small", they say...HYPOCRITES.

Next: Too many arrows in a round, change it to suit us and we will come. POSITIVE BS; they won't come to a field shoot. First off, they are hypocritical in this too....used to be their excuse was that field too TOO LONG to complete a round (at 5 hours for 112 shots). NOW, however, again hypocrites, 3-D is taking LONGER than that for the full FORTY (yes 40) shots in TWO DAYS! 40 arrows in two days....3 1/2 hours or so per TWENTY shots...but THAT isn't too long for them? Next excuse please, but an arrow every 20-25 minutes is ludicrous.

Cash payouts to AMATEURS? This is pure BS! Here we have another case of ME, ME, ME, and self-centered, instant gratification...now, they take up a HOBBY...and are demanding they get PAID FOR IT????? If you want to shoot for money...they have a place for it...it is called the PROFESSIONAL DIVISION...or the MONEY division...ANTE UP...and get off the porch and run with the big dogs.

Now for the NFAA....and here comes the accusation that I have a "personal agenda that is not in the best interests of the organization nor archery in general."

What is wrong with the NFAA?

The MEMBERS are wrong with the NFAA...or at least the narcissitic ones, and the OLD FARS club! The newbies keep wanting the instant gratification and aren't willing to practice or gain experience...they want to be competitive the first time they set foot on a field course...and when they are NOT...then they keep submitting STUPID agenda items and asking for changes to tickle their fancy! When they don't get their own way....they quit and run home to mommy for sympathy.

The LEADERSHIP, on the other hand is the OLD FARTS club...and seemingly are doing everything they can to make sure changes are NOT made. They take a vote....make the change...then hold a "secondary meeting" to over-rule the vote. They table items that would involve WORK for them...the one coming to mind is the formation of a "committee" to investigate why the membership is declining at such a rapid rate and what to do about it?

Are these people lunatics or what? They claim that it is UP TO THE STATES to figure this out? Then WHAT THE HECK is the "National Organization" for? Why do we bother to have a National Organization if it won't HELP to find out why the membership is declining...among other things.

The NFAA has become REACTIVE...and not at all PROACTIVE. They can see things coming...but their attitude is to wait and see IF it Happens or not, and then scramble to find an answer or make a decision...See, it is easier to let the crumbs fall, and try to go pick up the pieces without any plan or course of action pre-defined? NOT!

Next but not the least....The MEMBERSHIP expects everyone else to do the work. The NFAA directors that try to do their jobs don't get hardly any feedback when they do ask the membership for information! That, my friends, is NOT the Directors' faults! That is YOUR fault for not doing YOUR job as a dues Paying member!
We sit back and let the Directors, Councilmen, and even the leadership do as they see fit....because....we the MEMBERS....won't tell them anything until AFTER a decision is made.....but yet that decision was made because YOU, the member, didn't give them any guidance!
WE also don't hold them accountable either...and LET THEM use that same ole time-tried excuse...."I tried, but...."

The NFAA hates AT, and apparently, they don't like the use of electronics for the quicker way of gathering information....SOME are still in the stone age on that too.

Lastly....NON-PAID "shooters" (ARCHERS act much differently than shooters) try to control the NFAA...with their constant excuses as to why they won't join, why they won't shoot, and blah, blah, blah. However, in my 45 years experience with the NFAA...not matter what is done...those NON-PAID "shooters" won't show up anyways. 

You see...they want to be FREE-LOADERS...you know, show up at a shoot, pee and moan, gripe and complain, pay a shooting fee....and still be eligible for the local award, State Championships, and yes, folks, Sectional and NATIONAL titles too...but REFUSE to join the organizations! They come up with all sorts of reasons why they think they are "special" and should just show up and let everyone else foot the bill at the State and National...and YES, even local levels. These free-loaders just want to come in, pay their $5, do NOTHING for the organizations, sponsors, or whatever...and still play the game with DUES PAYING MEMBERS....Won't happen...at least not on MY watch it won't.
If anything...I think that local clubs should charge "Free-loaders" EXTRA to shoot the event....then let them shoot for the awards...but PAY EXTRA each and every time they do...until they pay their dues...then they can pay the same as a CARD CARRYING, DUES PAYING, MEMBER. Not a member? Fine....then pay DOUBLE until you become a member.

Across the "lines" membership? ABSOLUTELY! I say, here, that if an ASA card carrying member wants to compete in NFAA...fine and dandy...he/she is NOT a free-loader...they are supporting SOME FORM of organized archery and should be recognized for that. CLUB MEMBER? FINE....at least you aren't a "free-loader" and have proof of MEMBERSHIP in something. NFAA member shooting IBO and ASA? Certainly? Why not? They are a paid up MEMBER of an archery organization.

Blast away...Cuz I know the "hypocrites" won't see it this way...but 45 years of seeing this crap hit the fan...and watching club after club after club DESTROYED by these same hypocrites just sticks in my craw...Clubs and orgs have bent over backwards to try to entice them...and all they do is come up with MORE excuses....and won't show or change anyways. The CHANGES have been attempted by the "old farts" and they get the POOP crammed in their faces every single time...and the NFAA just seems to be handy for them to use as the Fan to toss the poop into.

Next time...maybe it will be the IBO, ASA, or NAA...

field14 (Tom D.)


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## frank_jones (Mar 2, 2006)

*nfaa*

I think I join the archery organizations out of habit.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

frank_jones said:


> I think I join the archery organizations out of habit.



*Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll then...........

Ms. Lucky's Archery Association....Dues $50.00 per year....Please Join

I will use your dues money.....very wisely :wink:*


.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

Spoon13 said:


> I was actually trying to respond to Field14 post but got caught in the page 1 page 2 thing.
> 
> *Sorry about any confusion, unless there is something you feel the need to divulge???*_Posted via Mobile Device_





*Not quite yet.....but soon......veryyyyyyy soon...:wink:*

.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *Not quite yet.....but soon......veryyyyyyy soon...:wink:*
> 
> .


You know my PM inbox still has some room in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brtesite (May 24, 2002)

Unclegus said:


> Thank you guys for helping make my point about change. And let me say the 5-3 target was IMO a damn good change, but noone gave it a chance for the very same reason... No change. I guess everyone likes this giant four ring. Whether it's one arrow or fifty, the eighty yard thing puts people who haven't shot out of their comfort zone, so let's just keep everything the way it is and let nature take it's course. I'm in favor of doing away with the 80 and the 65 and replacing it with a 60 and 55 shot at a 50CM face. Bet no one will like that either. And going to three arrow/target to help keep damage to a minimum, of course someone won't like that idea either. Shortening the round by taking away the long ones is OK, but the reason in my mind is you lost the regulars is that not everyone is a Jesse or a Reo and they depend on those shorties to help their score. You got to get to give.... I give up. I'm sixty. I'll shoot till I can't anymore or dead or field dies. I'm betting on field dying first......


Gus it failed because as you said they didn't want change. When the original 5-3 face was around, we had over 35000 members.2 years later it was down to 18000. when is every one going to understand that unless the directors make the change for anything , things will say the same. whether we realize it or not we are using rules that date back to old BB days when there were no decent sighting systems. Hunter round is a prime example. Yardages weren't marked , & you were allowed 5% variation as long as it was made up on another target. Do you think Jesse would have cleaned it then?
What ever changes you want made have to come from the directors,& they have to get the majority of the directors to agree & that is tough. If the agenda is to long it almost always gets scraped because it won't get read. Some thing like the health bill that no one knows what is in it. I don't have the answers as to how to help Field. Indoor is another thing . People feel more comfortable at 20 yrds.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

I have gotten a thread made into a sticky to help those of us with an idea for a betterment of the NFAA to openly discuss future agenda items. that thread has over 140 looks and*ONE* potential submission without discussion.

here we have a S'-load of people with experience and ideas to make the NFAA better but only i have the aggots to find something that could use some modernizing/mainstreaming, point out the problem and offer a change. ya'll are disappointing to say the least. i'm starting think that the best way to get changes done in the NFAA is to stand in a mirror and PM&G to your reflection. 


we dont need to change the standard field round....it aint broke. the good book already has rounds that are shorter time, shorter distance and fewer arrows. they're considered *OFFICIAL ROUNDS* because they exist in the good book. someone long ago, possibly when brtsite was a youngin  , to have the foresight to come up with and establish *ALTERNATIVE OFFICIAL ROUNDS*.

how many clubs have held outdoor 300 rounds or international rounds? how about the '7&7' mixed 3D&field round? no.....you just want to vociferously complain about how much everyone wants to change the 560 games.



i do agree with field14 that it's more about an archer's problem with the rules of the game than with the game itself. field is a game that will separate the men from the boys and the wanna-be's from the really-are's. it's about being a better archer, not a better rule bender, lawyer, whiner and chump change chaser. i agree with quite a bit that Tom said.



field archery on any level is a big ocean game. the big fish in koi ponds wont play.....it's that silly ego thing. stop trying to pander to them and get them to step out of their comfort zone.......it aint gonna happen. the bottom line is that if you want to be a better archer, play a harder game where the excuse factor is zero and the skill factor is high.

if people want to play for money in the field games, clubs should offer an open money class. pay your money and take your chances. as long as the club follows the rules for the game being shot, there's no reason why there can not be a money class.


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## frank_jones (Mar 2, 2006)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll then...........
> 
> Ms. Lucky's Archery Association....Dues $50.00 per year....Please Join
> 
> ...


will I get a miss lucky magazine.:smile:


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

frank_jones said:


> will I get a miss lucky magazine.:smile:



Membership DOES have it's priviledges. :wink:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

rock monkey said:


> I have gotten a thread made into a sticky to help those of us with an idea for a betterment of the NFAA to openly discuss future agenda items. that thread has over 140 looks and*ONE* potential submission without discussion.
> 
> here we have a S'-load of people with experience and ideas to make the NFAA better but only i have the aggots to find something that could use some modernizing/mainstreaming, point out the problem and offer a change. ya'll are disappointing to say the least. i'm starting think that the best way to get changes done in the NFAA is to stand in a mirror and PM&G to your reflection.
> 
> ...


I agree here with what is in RED... A money class...as in SINGULAR..>ONE money class...pay your entry fee and take your chances...but none of this "Money for the PROS" and money for the AMATEURS as separate entities!
No half-way house of "Semi-Pro" either...Pay your entry fee and take your chances in ONE and ONLY ONE Money class.
Seems today that too many are in the game to TAKE FROM the game and give NOTHING in return....they want to be PAID to take up the hobby...and call it FUN? Say What? Wanna get PAID...ante up and get off the porch and run with the REAL big dogs.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Great post Tom. I feel the same way (pretty much) If you want money then get a JOB. If money is involved then it is not a hobby it is a JOB. I for one like the idea of going out and having a good time with friends. If I want to shoot for money then I will join the PRO ranks. LEave the rules alone. If you want to shoot with all the bells and whistles then shoot FS if not then learn to adapt to the rules that already exist. No shorter round. No removing the harder targets. This is what makes field archery stand out from the rest. As far as the NFAA is concerned. IF I left everytime that I was not happy with the governing body then I would probably be living in another country because at this time I don't like our Federal or State Governments either.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Tom, that was a great post. :thumbs_up:thumbs_up I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to think people had a better work ethic, but apparently a lot of them don't. I've said it time and time again, field just ain't for everyone. But then again, I'd just like to think if there was a way to get this group of shooters onto a field range just once, it would build a fire in many of them like it did me many years ago....


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

frank_jones said:


> will I get a miss lucky magazine.:smile:


*
That would be a "MS." Lucky magazine......and yessss.....with full center layout :wink:*

.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

Spoon13 said:


> Membership DOES have it's priviledges. :wink:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*
You should know....*


.


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## frank_jones (Mar 2, 2006)

*where?*

where do I join?


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *
> That would be a "MS." Lucky magazine......and yessss.....with full center layout :wink:*
> 
> .


 Where do I send my dues? Better yet, I'd just drive to South Carolina and pay them in person.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

Unclegus said:


> Where do I send my dues? Better yet, I'd just drive to South Carolina and pay them in person.



*Awhhhhhh.....Honey..... "UNLIKE" some Organizations..... I DELIVER!!!! *


*Happy Easter to All .........*


.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *Awhhhhhh.....Honey..... "UNLIKE" some Organizations..... I DELIVER!!!! *
> 
> 
> *Happy Easter to All .........*
> ...


I kindly like the way you talk... Uh huh.......


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