# Finally put together designated spot a arrows



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Maybe a little too heavy at 755 grains

Any such thing a's too heavy?



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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Yes, arrows can be too heavy. 

- If it takes 5 seconds for the arrow to clear the bow..................... they might be too heavy.
- If you can only shoot 20 yards in a building with 10 ft ceilings........ they might be too heavy.
- If you shoot your 2nd arrow before the first one reaches the target .........they might be too heavy.
- If you must shoot 90 lbs. to reach 20 yards......... they might be too heavy.
- If you need a wheel barrow to carry the arrows to the line.......... they might be too heavy.
- If you can not shoot beyond 5 yards before the arrow hits the ground.........you need a sight with more elevation.
- If you have to use a Bowie knife as the blade on your rest the arrows......... might be too heavy.
- If you have to use hydraulics to raise your drop-away rest.......... the arrows are too heavy.
- If you have to use a periscope as a peep........... they might be too heavy.
- If you can only haul a dozen arrows on a 4 ton trailer.......... they are definitely too heavy.
- If OSHA requires you to wear steel toed boots while shooting......... they might be too heavy.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Bwwaaahhhhhaaaaaa

The second arrow before the first one jit got me!

Lol....thanks

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Good lord that's heavy.....That's almost the weight of two of the arrows I shot last year indoors :chortle:

But that isn't too heavy. There is really no such thing as too heavy.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Brown Hornet said:


> Good lord that's heavy.....That's almost the weight of two of the arrows I shot last year indoors :chortle:
> 
> But that isn't too heavy. There is really no such thing as too heavy.


2712s 
32 inches
325 pro points
4 fletch vanes......

Left them long to tune them at some point.

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Garceau said:


> 2712s
> 32 inches
> 325 pro points
> 4 fletch vanes......
> ...


I figured you were shooting something along those lines.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

They very slow.....



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## wolfman_73 (Mar 7, 2005)

Just went from 2613s @ 31 with 150s and vanes to 2712s @ 33 w/ 275s and feathers. Had to move the sight down 4 numbers to get it close. 4 numbers is a long ways on a Hogg lol. Thy seem to shoot a pile better tho so far. Think ill keep em as is


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I think it was Gillingham that said there is such a thing as too slow. I think he said something along the lines of 200 fps was about minimum. 
I can't quite wrap my mind around that but I also can't wrap my mind around why people think that "perfectly" spined arrow is necessary for indoor spots. We shoot from a fixed distance in ideal conditions so if the arrow comes out a bit nock high or even left I don't see the big deal for the vast majority of archers and I mean the VAST majority.

I shot my first 60 X game with the original Carbon Express X-Jammer (26 diameter and about a .200 spine). I have a 26" draw and the arrows were about 25.25" long with about 200 grains up front. To top it off the arrows had (3) Flex Fletch FLP-400 vanes. For those that don't know these are ultra-low profile vanes. I was shooting a 6" brace "speed" bow set on about 54 lbs. Also shot more than a few 300 23x Vegas games with this set up. *BUT,* I did hold a chit pot load better at the time!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Well ....i didnt feel that i shot overly well.

I get pretty anxious on a spot target and im trying to work thru it. Was second week of league. I shot 300 50x.....i made some pure *** shots and the arrows found home.

If i can gain anything from tonight is a bit of confidence. If i get the nerves under check should gain a few additional X's

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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

Spots is easy and it has no challenge.

Thats what everyone says


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

But nobody in this thread or this forum ever says that.....good lord man. 


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

They freak me out!

Hence the reason im making a push to conquer them lil freaking circles

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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

rock monkey said:


> Spots is easy and it has no challenge.
> 
> Thats what everyone says


Something a 3D'er would say. After they realize toeing the line freaks them out.......


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

they still freak me out - such a stupid little inanimate object that Im WAY bigger than.....

Maybe my next strategy will be to walk up and punch the X ring hard.....show its whos boss? then procede to put 60 arrowx in them


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Garceau said:


> they still freak me out - such a stupid little inanimate object that Im WAY bigger than.....
> 
> Maybe my next strategy will be to walk up and punch the X ring hard.....show its whos boss? then procede to put 60 arrowx in them


Or shoot the little buggers at 10 yards!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I shoot a TON of 10 yard games I mean a ton.

I do well with them, heck I do well sitting on the line at 20 with no pressure or league, or just my buddies around. Even when we are shooting for lunch, and since its my traveling 3D partners we are trying to destroy the other guys score.

Its just when it matters my brain gets a little crossfire going on and I put way too much pressure on myself for a little spot that isnt going to jump off the paper and kick me in the nutz!

Ten yards inside out 60X is generally not an issue.

I will get through this, I will work on it until I have to. I joined my first spot league since 1997 this year. Some really good shooters and just a little anxious. First week I shot horribly at 294-37

Last night I shot 300-50, so I over came a lot, but didnt feel I shot overly good. But I looked at the target this morning and reminded myself that it was a good night, and the shots were better than expected.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Shot a 10 yd game this evening.

Still need to work on bar set-up a little.









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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Good job man....a 300 50X round is nothing to hang your head on for sure. 

Every arrow means the same. It doesn't matter if its the 1st arrow of practice at 10 yds or the last arrow at Nationals for a 60X round. Yes the pressure is different. But your still trying to shoot the same shot...it should be anyway. What helped me years ago mentally was when I realized that not one person other then me really gives a crap what my score is. Your friends want you to shoot good of course. But they really don't care if you shoot a 295 and 30X round or a 300 and 60X round. 


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

thanks - its a work in progress.

personally I feel I should probably avg 53ish on X count. I dont know why I have that number, and its probably a mistake and the wrong mindset.

going to try and shoot a game somewhere tonight as Im out of town for work.

I will say this and it could just be me - these heavy arrows do seem to find the X a little more often on the "not so good shots" - as I stated several times I walked up and was pleasantly suprised to see 5X's.

Im trying to get of the mindset of not even looking to see where the last arrow went, nothing I can do about it anyways. Just shoot the next "one arrow game"


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

Garceau said:


> Im trying to get of the mindset of not even looking to see where the last arrow went, nothing I can do about it anyways. Just shoot the next "one arrow game"


The arrows I had put together for spots this year have 2 black vanes (1 red) and black pin nocks. I can't see where it went even when I want to.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I got white vanes and black nocks..... If I leave my binos in the case. I usually cant see them until I start walking up.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

After you get used to what they look like in the target. Even with crappy eyesight you will be able to see if it's an X or not. Even shooting a little ole 2314 :wink: with blue vanes and black nocks I can see if my arrow is an X or not....and my eye sight SUCKS. After a couple ends when you get that good hole going....your arrow will make a distinct sound going into the sweet spot. Plus if it's not in that hole it will stand out. The only ones I can't tell are the ones that are "close".

If looking at your arrows...be it in or out of the X bugs you....you still have A LOT to work on mentally. I look at my arrows A LOT....not as much once I get a good hole going and I can tell that they are in it or not. But if it's close...I want to know if it's in or not. Otherwise I may be annoyed by a shot that is in...or be pissed about one that is out that I thought was in when I get to the target :chortle: But it is also nice to be able to make adjustments when needed to my sight...if I am shooting left I don't want to miss an X because I thought I was good and didn't move my sight and dropped an X. 

Unless I am working on my "short yardage game"...I have my binos around my neck...and I use them :wink:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

A lot of work mentally is an understatement......and i am aware of it.

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Garceau said:


> A lot of work mentally is an understatement......and i am aware of it.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


:icon_1_lol: Hang in there buddy....you will get there. Like we mentioned. One arrow at a time.....forget all about impressing everyone or showing them you can shoot. One shot at a time.....make the best shot you can every time.


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## DssBB (Feb 21, 2010)

I just hope you don't decide to take those 755g logs out on a 3D course. Those turkeys or rock critters placed at short yardages are in for a surprise as are the others shooting behind you in your group. Those logs will push the targets way out past 40 yds.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

299-53x.....grrr

Im ok with the one, knew it and can fix it.

Hsppy to see x count climb.....shots that feel a little off when they break are finding home, which has to mean something.









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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Actually the pictue is rotated.
...damn.

The 4 is for top righ straight low.

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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Garceau said:


> Actually the pictue is rotated.
> ...damn.
> 
> The 4 is for top righ straight low.
> ...


Here you go.
Pic rotated correctly.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Good job....I would think you could tighten that up some. Time for some group tuning :wink: 53Xs you should have that X chewed up a good bit more. :wink:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

All in good time....work in progress. Only been shooting spots seriously for 3 weeks ....

Plenty of tinkering yet. I think i could put a click or two in sight.

Then some fine tuning. Of bow and bower ....lol

Its getting there i hope. Amazing when i do my part they find the center.

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

You may have only been shooting actual indoors "seriously" for a few weeks....but you have been shooting for much longer then that. :wink:

A thing that jumps out at me from reading your post is something that always drives me crazy. "Plenty of tinkering yet. I think i could put a click or two in sight." You think you could put a few clicks on your sight? Really? That isn't something that you should have to think about or look at later.....unless your shooting BHFS your sight should be moved constantly. That's why you have an adjustable sight. I can't tell you the last time I shot a round and didn't move my sight a little here and there...we aren't machines. Move your sight when it needs to be moved. Your sight will not be DEAD on for windage or even elevation every day. Heck even watch guys like Jesse, Dave, Braden and Reo shoot indoors, field or FITA. They move their sights between arrows....and there is a reason for it. :wink:

Your sight mark overall is fine...your target shows that. But like I said earlier....a little group tuning will tighten that target up A LOT. With 53Xs you should have a good hole in those spots. Your arrow holes are kind of sprayed which tells me...unless you just got lucky....your bow isn't pounding the way it should be.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Spots still freak me out! But each time I shoot them Im hoping I take a little more from them.

Im almost the point of going to a real spot shoot this weekend on the way to a 3D shoot. 

There are many, many things I, as in me need to work on. Its amazing when Im relaxed and keep the tension out of my body the arrow just finds the mark and I can actually catch a glimpse of it through my scope. But when I get tension (usually in my release hand/arm) the pattern opens up immensly.

I have been told that the few fliers left, and the general patter of any real misses left I could put a twist or two into the string to shorten draw a touch. I also never really messed with stabilizers since I just put them on. I want to work on getting me working consistently and making little measurable changes at the same time.

I hope to be meeting with my coaching buddy on Monday and see what other tweaks we can work on. 

consistency - is not there yet.

Absolutely been shooting longer than 3 weeks. But up until that three weeks since 1998 I shot 2 total 300 rounds for any type of score. I quit any type of league or tourney shooting for a LONG time and then a few years ago decided to get back into it. I focused on 3d, but knowing to be a better shot I needed to get my form more consistent - hence the reason for spots now.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Also not sure if it matters for anything - but I shoot them top left, then top right, center, bottom left to bottom right.

The 5 arrow each end was really amazing me right up until the end. For some reason it was always on the way inside very tight. A little later on they opened up some last 2 maybe 3.

Hopefully this all parlays into better shooting on the 3D course, especially in higher pressure situations.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Get yourself comfortable shooting spot competition and 3D will seem real easy! A 3D shoot off in front of folks is about like shooting indoor spots. Of course a game of indoor spots might take hours rather than seconds or a couple of minutes. In 3D you concentrate for one minute for one shot about every 15 minutes for 25 or so shots. When spot shooting you concentrate hard for 2-4 minutes (3 - 5 shots) out of every 7-10 minutes for 60 shots. After a good game or 2 of spots I will feel mentally burned out about a half hour after I finish. Takes a little bit to wind down. After a game of 3D I'm ready to start shooting.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Garceau said:


> Spots still freak me out! But each time I shoot them Im hoping I take a little more from them.
> 
> Im almost the point of going to a real spot shoot this weekend on the way to a 3D shoot.
> 
> ...


Don't mess with your dl do correct that issue......it could be long...it could be short. But your better off moving your REST to the right. Group tune...that thing my man. Yes too long of a draw can lead to lefts....but so can being too short on the draw. 

If you need help with your stabs and what to move or dissecting what your seeing send me a PM and I will be happy to help you....

there is no difference shooting indoors vs shooting 3D.....don't make it any different. Your still picking a spot...indoors you just don't have to figure out where that spot is. Then the rest is just making the shot. Don't make it harder then it is :wink:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

ah....there in lies my issue - I always make it harder than it needs to be. its my personality, my traits, I cant change them completely now. Only control them.

it was to the point last year I think in Florida or La for an ASA event a dude looked at me and said "you know they make beta blockers for that" meaning my inability to just relax and shoot. He then proceeded to tell me they werent legal, but they were there....LOL

I know how to group tune a 3d shaft, well I know my methods in the past. I have never really given much thought to tuning these big logs. I will be honest I just kind of put them on there, and shot them....


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Your target definitely shows a left of center grouping. An adjustment may have picked you up a couple of more X's.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Yeah probably - but Im not so sure many of the off left misses were overly early.

To be honest I was really just trying to shoot 1 arrow, 1 arrow and was trying hard to not worry about the last arrow. May have hurt....but that one straight low hurt the most


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Garceau said:


> ah....there in lies my issue - I always make it harder than it needs to be. its my personality, my traits, I cant change them completely now. Only control them.
> 
> it was to the point last year I think in Florida or La for an ASA event a dude looked at me and said "you know they make beta blockers for that" meaning my inability to just relax and shoot. He then proceeded to tell me they werent legal, but they were there....LOL
> 
> I know how to group tune a 3d shaft, well I know my methods in the past. I have never really given much thought to tuning these big logs. I will be honest I just kind of put them on there, and shot them....


lol...well I will let you deal with your own calming down issues....I don't have that problem and never did :chortle: But things will start to slow when you understand that...as I said before...nobody cares what score you post but you :wink:

Group tuning is group tuning....doesn't matter if your shooting X10s....ACCs....Nano's....X7s....Maximas....GT Ultra Lights....or tire irons. The process is the same. You just may do it at different distances. I group tune my indoor setup at 20yds...my field setup at 60yds and my hunting rigs usually at 40 yds.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Garceau said:


> Yeah probably - but Im not so sure many of the off left misses were overly early.
> 
> To be honest I was really just trying to shoot 1 arrow, 1 arrow and was trying hard to not worry about the last arrow. May have hurt....but that one straight low hurt the most


You have at least 14 shots either out or on the left edge of the X....remember what I said earlier about using your binos :wink: Maximize your efforts. It does no good to shoot good shots or even ok shots that should be in and they are out because you aren't using your binos and moving your sight :wink:

Why be afraid of the arrow that has already been shot? :noidea:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Did some tuning yesterday - moved rest in about 1/16 of inch (Im RH)

Changed fletch for the needed clearance - 

Changed bar set up a bit.

Coach changed grip slightly........

thursday will tell.

Oh yeah - moved my sight too


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

300-51x

Really only shot s few bad arrows.

Feel good.

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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Really cant explain the center ring. Loss of focus i suppose.

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

We need to get you a new arrow caller :wink:

I usually CRUSH the center dot for some reason....are you shooting the same arrow at each spot? Have you changed your nocks? Have you nock tuned the arrows?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Just randomly grabbing arrows at this point.

Felt as though for the most part i had more arrows closer and less on line.

Just launched a couple.

Seemed when i dropped them they came 3 in an end twice, then a few fliers here or there

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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

The next time you go shoot spend a half hour or so nock tuning. Turn your nocks so that all your arrows are pretty much hitting the exact same spot. If you haven't replaced them in a while or if one won't group the way it should change the nock. They don't last forever :wink:

I would also # them and make sure you shoot the same arrow at the same spot each time....it's amazing what you can learn :wink:


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Yeah will put that into play for sure.

Just looking st last two weeks targets and it does appear this week had considerably more inside outs.

Just need to limit a few oops!

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