# Why I will never purchase from 3Rivers Archery again.



## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Sorry you had a bad experience. 

FWIW, I have had nothing but fantastic service from Lancaster Archery. Might want to give them a try next time.

KPC


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Wait, did you ever find anything wrong with the bow? Did you locate the creak before you sent it back?


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

I have started ordering from Lancaster now.. I never did find what it was...but it was in the top limb by the riser...they just kept telling me it was string wax...what was I to do...argue with them. The noise wasnt string wax. I'm not a happy camper at the moment.


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## Night Wing (Feb 4, 2009)

I order things from 3Rivers from time to time and I have never had any defective merchandise. Sorry to see you had an unpleasant experience with 3Rivers.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Not that Lancaster is that much better, I ordered a Samick Bullseye Bullet and TradTech limbs from them. The condition the bow came in was horrible, serious scuff marks on the riser, I've bought better used bows. The TradTech limbs had scratches all over them. Don't they inspect what the sell before they put it in the box. Not to hijack your thread but from my experience Lancaster wasn't any better. I just got lucky that a friend traded some archery gear for my Samick crap.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm new today and this is my first post. Funny I would spot a complaint against 3Rivers. I happen to think they have grown much too large and have lost the common touch. Used them many years ago when it was a Mom and Pop operation - great service. Now they have gone corporate and forgotten what made them big in the first place - great service.

I, too, had a beef with them on returned items. They would not credit my VISA card and finally I dropped the issue. It was only over 50 bucks so I was not going to launch any kind of legal action. But a few months ago my best pal from up north tried to return a Das Dalaa he did not like at all. It took him over a month and many threats of legal action including a report to the Indiana Attorney General's office to get 3Rivers to refund his money. They did not want to give up the cash. (100% satisfaction garantee on the DAS, no questions asked as per catalog)

What 3River's forgets, what many large companies forget, is that the consumer may really value that 50 or 500 dollars they just sent away for a product. It (the cash) means something to the customer. But it means nothing to the large company. If they drag their feet issuing a refund, or fail to issue one at all, so what? They have tens of thousands of customers who are unaffected by one man's plight. No need to get money back to some poor working slob in a hurry. This is the corporate influence and why I never use 3Rivers anymore. 

Now I use "The Nocking Point, Inc." out of Kansas for all my trad needs. They are a husband and wife team who talk to you on the phone and always do their best to please you. Just like 3Rivers did once upon a time. For now I'll stay with the little guy in Kansas until they follow the 3Rivers business plan and stop giving a doggone about the single customer with a lousy 50 bucks to spend.

Reader's Digest version: I hate 3Rivers too!!


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Night Wing said:


> I order things from 3Rivers from time to time and I have never had any defective merchandise. Sorry to see you had an unpleasant experience with 3Rivers.


If was not the defective item, it was 3Rivers' failure to make it right or issue a refund in a timely fashion. When you send them money for something they are very good at rushing it to your door. But should that item be not of your liking or flawed, look out. You'll never see a refund in anything resembling a timely fashion - if at all. This is the man's problem. 3Rivers's won't stand up and make it right (quickly) like most decent mail order houses.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

LongStick64 said:


> Not that Lancaster is that much better, I ordered a Samick Bullseye Bullet and TradTech limbs from them. The condition the bow came in was horrible, serious scuff marks on the riser, I've bought better used bows. The TradTech limbs had scratches all over them. Don't they inspect what the sell before they put it in the box. Not to hijack your thread but from my experience Lancaster wasn't any better.



*Wow, that's really wierd Longstick, this is what you posted about your Samick just a couple months ago...*


*"February 15th, 2011 03:45 PM #9 LongStick64 

Registered User Join Date:Aug 2009
Location:New York State
Posts:481

Picked up a Samick Birdseye Bullet T/D recurve. Limb are excellent, had to install a sure grip on the riser, it was too smooth for my taste. Overall a very solid shooter. I would grade it below a custom and way above the cheapies. Basically will shoot as well any other bow. Looks better than a cheapie but not as good as a custom, but it's close. At 62" long it really is a pleasure to shoot. "*


*And this...*


*"February 8th, 2011 05:57 PM #4 LongStick64 

Samick Birds Eye Bullet T/D Recurve
62", [email protected], $500.00
Not your Daddy's Samick, This bow is as close to custom as Samick can get. One look at the Birdseye limb veneers put a smile on my face. The limbs are a step up from what I've seen on other cheap Samick bows from the gorgeous veneers to the zebrawood cores. The Riser is a combination of Walnut, Ironwood, Rosewood, Zebrawood & Maple. I only wish the riser had a slightly larger sight window, but overall it's a solid looking riser. 
The bow balances extremely well in your hands. It's not a heavy bow at all, light enough to carry with you all day stomping through the woods.
So far I haven't taken a bad shot with this bow, every arrow is hiiting the mark. I'm shooting off the shelf and I do cant the bow a little bit, and the bow feels spot on at full draw. This bow absolutely fits for what I was looking for. Solid, accurate bow, very smooth draw and looks more expensive than what it is. Yet it comes at a price that I know I won't mind putting it through it's paces during hunting season.
So is it as good as a custom, no. There were some minor rough spots on the limb edges, easily sanded down, probably excess glue."*






KPC


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Gerep, 
No I didn't for the simple reason, my friend decided to trade for them, I avoided the hassle of sending it back and waiting for any satisfaction. My point was, any decent bowyer would make sure that whatever he sent out REPRESENTED his work. Now for the mail order set, they don't seem to understand that part of the business. To them it's just business.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

*And this too...*


*"February 1st, 2011 11:47 PM #18 LongStick64 


I'll second the Samick Red Stag, but a real sweet shooter is the Samick Birdseye Bullet. It has the look of a custom bow without the custom price. it's a 62" recurve that balances real well. For me it shoots every bit as well as my more expensive Black Widow's."*

Am I missing something??

KPC


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

No your not missing a thing, did I say anything about the condition of the Bow ??? No. The bow shot well, real well, but the condition it arrived in was not to my expectation. Understood.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

I'll admit that when I first looked at the bow I was happy with it, and yes I recommended it, but after looking it over and considering the condition it came in, I did not appreciate the condition it was in. Tru it is not a custom bow and the craftsmanship proved it. Does the bow shoot, true enough. I should of appended that post. Thanks to super sleuth GEREP now I don't have too.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Not trying to be a super sleuth LongStick, just trying to keep it real. 

People come to these boards to get and share honest information, I just remember how happy you were when you received your Samick. When I read what you posed today, I thought hmmmm...something sure changed.

As experienced as you seem to be with so many different bows, it just seems strange that you would be so mistaken with your initial impressions.

KPC


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Gerep,

It happens, I probably should of waited and shot the bow for 6 months. If I just wanted to use the bow as a everyday shooter, crash through the woods stumper, perfect. But when I sat down and really looked it over, I really thought Lancaster/Samick should of done a better check on the bow they package. Compared to some of the other bowyers I have dealt with, the quality control was lacking with the Samick.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

I still stand by the limbs as being B+ real nice veneers but the riser had issues. The woods were better than average but the glue lines were off and there were scuff marks and what later happened to be the glass coming up in one spot that was not easy to fix.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

LongStick64 said:


> The woods were better than average but the glue lines were off and there were scuff marks and what later happened to be the glass coming up in one spot that was not easy to fix.


And still you decided to trade it to a friend instead of sending it back?

:noidea:

To each his own I guess.

Glad it all worked out for you.

KPC


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## kraven (Jan 25, 2006)

There are three sides to every story.


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## 808Hybrid (Feb 14, 2011)

3Rivers has always been really good to me. I been ordering for over 4 years from them and never had issues with returns or bad products.. To bad It wasn't good for you.. Try Kustom King!


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## dayrlm (May 20, 2010)

Kustom King Archery is another source you might consider. I have had very good success with them.


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

What I find ironic is that they cant make this bow creak...it creaked everytime I drew it. It was a very costly experience for me...$100 isnt a lot of money...but I hate to lose it over something like this. I am a manufacturers rep by trade and if I treated a customer like this....my paycheck would definitely suffer. I called to see when my credit would hit my credit card...the guy I talked to was like incredulous that i called to check on it and proceeded to tell me that it takes a while to issue a credit (I can get a $40k credit issued from a company a heckuva lot larger than 3Rivers in about 20 minutes) I will be calling them again tomorrow.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Gerep,

My friend MADE the offer. Did you ever buy something that at first you liked but later on something, anything , changed your mind about it.


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

If you read back to that review I also reviewed the Zipper SXT, the Zipper BLOWS away the Samick, hmmm could of made me biased against the Samick.

I used to love to shoot Howard Hill longbows, you can dig up posts where I rave about them, well as soon as I started to shoot Great Northern Critter Gitters, I know prefer them over the Hills, Problem ?
I used to own a gorgeous Black Widow, this bow was hot, but you know what the grip never really felt good to me, so I traded it, Problem ?
I think we all if we have been in this game for a while have bought and sold many bows until we start to find the one's that we really enjoy. We are allowed to change our mind sometime right ?


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

southarkrob said:


> What I find ironic is that they cant make this bow creak...it creaked everytime I drew it. It was a very costly experience for me...$100 isnt a lot of money...but I hate to lose it over something like this. I am a manufacturers rep by trade and if I treated a customer like this....my paycheck would definitely suffer. I called to see when my credit would hit my credit card...the guy I talked to was like incredulous that i called to check on it and proceeded to tell me that it takes a while to issue a credit (I can get a $40k credit issued from a company a heckuva lot larger than 3Rivers in about 20 minutes) I will be calling them again tomorrow.


3Rivers does not care about your 100 bucks. Actually, they don't even concern themselves with the likes of customers like you at all. It is their hope you will just fade away. Most people will eventually and they know it. So do not expect to see your money back unless you go nuclear and contact an Indiana consumer fraud agency. This will get 3Rivers' attention.

It's just a shame a person has to go to such lengths to get the kind of service we all took for granted not so long ago.

Just say NO to 3Rivers.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

call the state attorney general. Dont threaten to do it, just do it. I went that route once with a car company that "lost" my title...it was "found" within 24 hrs of the AG contacting them. I had gone round and round with them for two months prior.


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## ripforce (Feb 15, 2010)

I have used 3Rivers from time to time and have never had any issues with them , but then I have not ordered any bows only arrow building items etc! I have worked in the retail enviroment for 30 plus years and with the economy the way it is I find it hard to imagine that ANY business would want to diss a customer, dollars are very hard to come by these days! I tend to support the mom and pop business if at all possible, thank God there are still a few of them left in the traditional archery biz, because most of these stores will go above and beyond, to try to please you! Braveheart archery, Lost Nation, Twig Archery, Nocking Point, Allegheny Mt arrow woods to name a few all offer great service and fair prices!


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## Runningbuck (Mar 11, 2009)

Three Rivers has lost the personal touch, no doubt about it. I only use them for certain things I can't find elsewhere. Their prices have been creeping up faster then other supply companies in the past few years. The difference in price for AMG feathers between them and the archerysuperstore is the cost of shipping!


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

LongStick64 said:


> If you read back to that review I also reviewed the Zipper SXT, the Zipper BLOWS away the Samick, hmmm could of made me biased against the Samick.
> 
> I used to love to shoot Howard Hill longbows, you can dig up posts where I rave about them, well as soon as I started to shoot Great Northern Critter Gitters, I know prefer them over the Hills, Problem ?
> I used to own a gorgeous Black Widow, this bow was hot, but you know what the grip never really felt good to me, so I traded it, Problem ?
> I think we all if we have been in this game for a while have bought and sold many bows until we start to find the one's that we really enjoy. We are allowed to change our mind sometime right ?


Longstick:

I wasn't going to post any more on this thread but because you asked me specific questions, I thought it is only right that I should answer them.

Yes, our liikes change when it comes to bows but there is a huge difference in my opinion between saying I used to like HH's but now I prefer GN's, or I used to shoot Widows but I found a grip that I like better, and what you did here.

Just two months ago, you were raving about your Samick purchase with statements like:

*"It has the look of a custom bow without the custom price. it's a 62" recurve that balances real well. For me it shoots every bit as well as my more expensive Black Widow's."*

*" I would grade it below a custom and way above the cheapies. Basically will shoot as well any other bow. Looks better than a cheapie but not as good as a custom, but it's close."*

*"Not your Daddy's Samick, This bow is as close to custom as Samick can get. One look at the Birdseye limb veneers put a smile on my face." *

*"This bow absolutely fits for what I was looking for. Solid, accurate bow, very smooth draw and looks more expensive than what it is. Yet it comes at a price that I know I won't mind putting it through it's paces during hunting season."*

*"So is it as good as a custom, no. There were some minor rough spots on the limb edges, easily sanded down, probably excess glue."*

Then when you post statements like:

*"The condition the bow came in was horrible, serious scuff marks on the riser, I've bought better used bows. The TradTech limbs had scratches all over them. Don't they inspect what the sell before they put it in the box."*

It makes people wonder (at least me) if there is more of an agenda here than just finding something that you like better. Condition was "horrible?" "Serious scuff marks on the riser?" "I've bought better used bows?" " Don't they inspect what they sell before they put it in the box?"

Couldn't people ask you the same thing? Doesn't he inspect things before he writes a glowing review? How can you not notice such "horrible" condition? You suggest that they don't inspect what they ship, yet go on to say that it apparently took you a while to notice those glaring flaws?

Really?? 

You bet, you are ABSOLUTELY entitled to your opinions, good bad or indifferent, but come on, this just doesn't jive.

There, I've answered your questions. I don't want to hijack the original poster's thread any more than what we have.

Have a good day.

KPC


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Guess you never heard of "on closer inspection"
So you don't think problems ever come up, come on Jack, you talk as if I have some kind of agenda and I don't. Just because my FIRST IMPRESSION was glowing doesn't mean that can't change. I don't live in the perfect world you do. Jive this.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Ok, but what was wrong with the bow? A creaking sound from a bow string on a short recurve bow is as normal as normal gets. Was there anything wrong with the bow other than a creaking sound heard in the first few inches of draw?


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## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

GEREP said:


> Sorry you had a bad experience.
> 
> FWIW, I have had nothing but fantastic service from Lancaster Archery. Might want to give them a try next time.
> 
> KPC


Yeah I order almost weekly from them and have NEVER had a bad experience yet. Im sorry to hear that you went through this, that sucks plain and simple and is not the way to run a business. I am very shocked though because they have been such great people to deal with!


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

LongStick64 said:


> Guess you never heard of "on closer inspection"
> So you don't think problems ever come up, come on Jack, you talk as if I have some kind of agenda and I don't. Just because my FIRST IMPRESSION was glowing doesn't mean that can't change. I don't live in the perfect world you do. Jive this.


First of all, may name is Kevin, not *"Jack."*

:wink:

Second, I'm not buying for one second the *"on closer inspection"* stuff either.

There seems to be a pattern here.

You stated in your first post on this thread that your TradTech limbs *"The TradTech limbs had scratches all over them"*, yet this is what you said when you first got them...

*"Best Value in Traditional Archery Today

I'll start by voting for Tradtech Carbon Black Max ILF limbs. What you get for 219.00 is an awesome deal. They match up with every setup I can think of, for the new archer that doesn't want to buy cheap limbs just to get better ones later, for the seasoned archer who wants a pair in lower weights to work on form, for the guy/gal who doesn't want to take his/her gorgeous veneered Morrison limbs to the woods but wants equal performance, and of course for the average guy looking for a solid deal. Beat that, I'm listening."*

*"Seems like we have a recurring theme....Samick. Really wish the US bowyers would take notice...I could buy 3 pairs of TT Carbon BM limbs for the same price as one pair of Morrison limbs. Would I really notice the difference, probably not."*

*"If some kid made my limbs, he's going to grow up one fine bowyer."*


*"On closer inspection"* of your previous posts, I'd say that this dog don't hunt.

:bs:

:smile:

KPC


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

You Win Kevin, I give the F up, done with this site.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

no need to take your ball and run. Just say what ya mean...and mean what ya say


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

trapperDave said:


> no need to take your ball and run. Just say what ya mean...and mean what ya say


Couldn't agree more.

KPC


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

I called this morning for a manager...of course they were in a meeting. I talked to a nice guy that actually acted like he cared that I was unhappy. He promised me that my credit was being ran today. We will wait and see. To the guy that said a creak was normal in a short bow...I have had alot of different trad bows...not a single one of them made this sound!! And it wasnt at the first of the draw...it did it all the way to my anchor point.


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## BowmanJay (Jan 1, 2007)

Ive never owned a bow that "creaks" and with the samicks, I have seen 7 of them come apart within the last year alone. Many of them were only months old. I dont think your off base at all feeling the way you do.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I am not defending 3 rivers here. Customer service is important. 
But again:
If you have never heard a creaking sound caused by string wax on a wood recurve limb then I don't understand why. My old bears make noise if there is wax on the string at the tips. It's a vibration thing. I think it was suggested in the OP that this might be the cause. 
All I was wondering was did the bow break or not? Is it possible that 3 rivers was correct and it was a vibration thing based on the string sticking in the groove?


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## bayeux (Jan 10, 2010)

I ordered an American Leathers full shot archery glove from them which cost over $50 if memory serves, after a few uses the stitching gave up on one finger, i sent them a photo and they sent me a replacement and didn't want the old one back, which I had stitched up. No problems for me and I live in the UK.


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## 9 point (Apr 23, 2005)

I have ordered from 3 rivers A LOT !!!!! Never had anything but 110 percent service out of them. Great company to work with.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

southarkrob said:


> I called this morning for a manager...of course they were in a meeting. I talked to a nice guy that actually acted like he cared that I was unhappy. He promised me that my credit was being ran today. We will wait and see. To the guy that said a creak was normal in a short bow...I have had alot of different trad bows...not a single one of them made this sound!! And it wasnt at the first of the draw...it did it all the way to my anchor point.


I am sure 3 rivers is aware of string caused sounds in some bow limbs. It seems like some folks here have never heard it but I am sure being in the business it's come up before and I just thought it might be more reasonable than you might think for them to suggest it as a cause. 
But it sounds like all is well and you will be getting a refund. That's good news


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

I am going to get a refund...but $80 less than what I paid for it......


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## marc weier (May 26, 2009)

I have had issues with them as well. I just refuse to buy anything from them. You can always get it somewhere else!


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## rraming (Aug 5, 2006)

Just asking, not bashing! you bought a bow, the string was sold as a seperate item? And you had silencers "and other stuff" put on it, a nock? - OK string, silencers and nock - 20 bucks maybe and then you had to pay shipping over and back - $40 each way? = 100 bucks
It is a bummer when you have to pay shipping twice, it happened to me returning an item to them but it is a business and all of them do it, if the item is defective and they send you a replacement, I don't think there would be a charge for shipping the new one to you - part of shopping online. They are not my favorite place to buy gear due to the pricing but they do have what you need and I do use them once in a while. I have a few vendors I won't give money to, it is what it is - some with shipping fee's or bad items, I even have one because he didn't return an email (old guy, yes they go through just like the us mail, stuff is never lost - it's an excuse). It's your duty as a consumer to not give your money to people you don't like - your money! Wait and see how big your list gets when your 60, LOL!


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## fatzboys (Dec 2, 2006)

i never had a problem with 3 rivers.I've ordered many times from them and found they had delivered quicker then most.Just ordered a tomahwk ss and after a week sent it back along with a letter as to why.Asked that they put back the money on credit card.It took 2 weeks to the day that it was received. There are many choices and i do shop at other on line sights.If one day they or some other company try and screw me i will never deal with that party again.Im glad archery talk lets us express are likes and dislikes with companys out there.THere are a lot of sights that wont let this happen.Especially if they are a sponser.thanks AT. If 3 river keep messing with peoples money, word will get out.they'll will out of business.hopefully sooner than later.But so far ,they have been there for me.........


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## redrum slaref (Feb 26, 2011)

i bought a samick deermaster [brand new] late last year and was at first happy with it . within 200 arrows thru it the top limb began creaking and soon after it delaminated big time. the dealer here replaced the limb but soon enough the replacement top limb delaminated. the dealer took the bow back and gave me a full credit. guess i was just lucky which dealer i used.


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

where i got shorted was $14 shipping to me... $14 for the string, nock, silencers, brush buttons, rest. $16 shippiing back , $15 for them to set it up. and the freight they charged me to send the string back. It cost me over $80... to describe what the bow sounded like...it sounded like one of the limbs was coming apart...but hey...guess what when they got it back...it didnt make that sound!!! Right!.. a very expensive lesson learned... they wont get any more of my money or any of my friends money. Rob


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## fotoguy (Jul 30, 2007)

Being a consumer, then working in the industry at LAS/TradTech for three years, and now a consumer again, I have seen both sides of the aspect of product problems and the way they are handled, but first, even though it is like closing the barn door after the horses escaped...I would like to offer my opinion on the creaking problem. Perhaps it will help others who encounter this. In your original description of the location of the noise, you stated it seemed to come from where the limb attached to the riser. This is a common problem. My guess, based on working with Samick and other recurves, is that the fit at limb pocket is a little off, or the bolt was not tight, perhaps the limbs were not quite lines up....In any case, a piece of felt or moleskin in the pocket where the limb meets the pocket would probably have taken care of the creaking. Perhaps when the people at 3 Rivers put the bow together, the fit was tighter, or not quite how the customer assembled it, and they did not hear the creak. Not making excuses for them...there are so many variables in a takedown..I know it was very hard at times to duplicate a problem. Perhaps this remedy will help someone in the future who has this problem.

As far as their method of handling problems, and refunds, I cannot speak for them. I can attest that most "big" companies still care about your satisfaction, or they would not be in business for long. Places like internet forums have significantly influenced this. The last thing a company wants is a thread like this.....if they want to remain in business. The only problem is that many times, forums like these is where the comany first finds out about any issues. That is not the case here, but many times it is. 

The solution of going to a smaller "mom and pop" company is an option. You certainly will get more personal dealings, but there are also downfalls as well....the selection of items, the availabliity of the items are all factors. These small companies mostly purchase their inventory from the larger companies like Kustom King, 3 Rivers, and Lancaster. By their very nature, the larger companies will have a wider variety, and probably more inventory, which means faster service on select items.

I am by no means making excuses for poor customer service...just merely stating that as a part of a larger company, and dealing with hundreds, if not thousands of customers, at one time or another, mistakes get made, and things fall through the cracks. People are human, and prone to mistakes. It is how those mistakes are dealt with is what makes the reputation of the company. 

As far as the Samick issue of the ILF limbs, and the Birdseye bow...when I was at LAS, every bow and limb that was received was inspected before I released in into inventory. I had to physically install the limb pads on the ILF limbs, and personally insert the trad rests into every box of takedowns. I am sure that practice did not end when I left. If there was that much of a problem as stated, a phone call to me would have had a new bow and limbs to the customer. Once again, if the company is not aware...they can't fix the problem.

As far as repeated delaminations on Samick bows....I have seen bows from all manufacturers and bowyers break or delaminate. The problem with singling out Samick is that while the number of problems seems high, the percentage of problem items with number of products sold is/was actually quite low. While at LAS, reports of returns and percentage of returns to sold items was monitored constantly, and I myself sent warranty info on damages along with pictures to Samick. All types of bows break, or delaminate....saw a custom bow break in half at a big trad shoot when the customer drew it back for the first time. Once again, problems happen, and in my opinion, how a customer dhandles it is more of an indication that the fact that it happened.

I feel bad that you had problems, and that the probable cause of the creaking was never determined, and that you had such a bad experience. I just thought I would offer my opinion on possibly the problem, and a perspective of customer service from both sides of the coin. I will get off the soapbox now. Hope I helped if anyone else has the same problem with their bow.

Lee Vivian


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Thanks for your insight into how the process works form the suppliers end Lee. I know how much you worked your tail off to provide the best possible customer service in the industry and it is/was very much appreciated. 

Yes, there are always two sides to every strory. Issues arise, problems occur, and expectations aren't always met, but at the end of the day, it's what happens next that matters. But, you have to give people the opportunity to make things right.

KPC


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Fotoguy, your comments are well thought out. My wife owns and operates a small business. 26 years in business so far. I have seen her lose more than one nights sleep over a customer problem and in some cases the customer was convinced she did not care.


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

I am a manufacturers rep by trade and know how to handle people to get what I need...was told I would get my credit yesterday..still hasnt been posted to my credit card... I can get a $40 credit issued from my company (which is global) a heckuva lot quicker than this....


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Rob, 3Rivers will tell you what you want to hear on the phone. Once you hang up they go back to filling orders and ignore any traffic that might cost them money they already have in their pockets. You will not get that credit in anything resembling a hurry. In fact, I'll be surprised if you get one at all unless you threaten legal action and contact the Attorney General of Indiana.

Good luck but do not hold your breath. I've done my research on this company and they do not have a good consumer reputation as tallied by various consumer groups in Indiana.


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## fotoguy (Jul 30, 2007)

By no means was my post meant to comment on defending 3Rivers' Customer Service, not trying to pat myself on the back for my time at LAS...I am sure I dropped the ball on many occasions.....

WARNING.....what I am about to say is not related to the circumstances in the original post...just an observation on my part in dealing with the public in this industry..and my no means an indictment on anyone in particular.....

In a larger business such as LAS, Kustom King, and 3Rivers, there is a tradeoff. Yes, the inventory is large, and usually the service is fast...but there is also a lot of red tape and such that a smaller business does not incur.....defined policies, set by the company and state and federal agencies, as well as credit card company policies makes things a little more complicated. Once again, this is not an excuse for poor customer service and quick attention to customer needs and problems. I have seen many times where a customer service rep has entered a credit onto the customers account, only to have the credit card company drop the ball, or have system problems, thus making the customer think the supplier messed up. Once again, not an excuse, just observations.....I spent many a troubled night worrying about a problem a customer had......I can relate to what the gentleman's wife goes through....

Sad to say, also, in this day and age, especially with the instant gratification of the internet forums....there has emerged a customer who has learned how to "play the game". A person knows that if they complain publicly, or call the comapny and complain enough, in order to keep it out of the general public, the company will usually placate the customer with freebies or perks. This is not just in the archery business, but in all walks of life. My son works for a large cable company, and they frequently get customers calling citing one problem or another, knowing they will get some kind of free premium service or something else, just to make them happy. Sad to say, but the same things exists in the archery business. Once again, not saying this is the case, just stating the fact that not all customers are above board....the need for companies to keep posts like this off the forums results in bending over backwards to satisfy the customer, and believe it or not, those customers who play the system do exist in relatively large numbers. I had a customer come in and tell me his bow broke when he drew back.....which I believed and did not question....offered him a new bow at no cost, even after his young son mentioned that his dad dry-fired the bow! 

Please don't take me as a bleeding heart for big business, I am not....it is just that I have been on both sides, and it ain't easy.....Once again, there is no excuse for poor customer service...from any company. Companies make mistakes, as do consumers, and I am sure the company you rep for has made mistakes as well......stuff happens.....it is how they are handled which decides who keeps getting my business.

I have no dog in this fight...I no longer work in the industry....and use many different companies to get my archery items......just trying to show a different perspective. things aren't always as they appear at first......


Lee Vivian


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Lee, you seem like a good man but I feel that you are missing the point with regards to 3Rivers. I agree they have an excellent selection and the very best service via mail order that you can expect. They always, always got my orders correct and to my door in unexpectedly fast time.

The problem is they fail to understand the common man and his attachment to his hard-earned dollars. Everything is fine with 3Rivers until you seek your money back. Exchanges? no problem. But try to get your cash back.

What is worse is the way they keep putting you off when seeking a refund. If you were buying an item they almost Concorde jet the thing to your house. But no such speed is applied to getting the customer's money back if the customer has a gripe. 

This is fundamentally wrong. They could get your money back just as fast as they delivered your goods in the first place. But they choose not to do this. One reason is because they hope you will grow weary and go away. Another reason is because there is not profit in handling merchandise twice. (getting it back) Mail order house also profit by holding money in volume. They accrue interest on the high money traffic. So why not hold it for as long as they can? Every penny is going to them. The poor, dumb bugger who kissed his 50 bucks goodbye is not really considered.

3Rivers knows they now have a huge customer base and don't really care if .05 % go away mad. It's more profitable on their business scale to just ignore them. It was not always that way with 3Rivers. I've used them since their start in the 80s. At that time they would do refunds with a flourish. Now that they have grown so large and hired professional phone people and such, no longer do you get the concern of the original owners. Now you're just a profit potential. 

So shop the little guys until the little guy of your choice goes all 3Rivers on you and starts getting too big and uncaring.

In closing, 3Rivers will do you well up until you have a problem requiring a refund of card credit or cash. Then you are totally screwed.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

http://www.bbb.org/northernindiana/...upplies/3rivers-archery-in-ashley-in-10023871

BBB has them at A+


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## fotoguy (Jul 30, 2007)

Fort,

I do understand the situation....but once again, I do not know their practices, nor do I know that "they do not understand the common working man". Just seems like a harsh blanket statement. If they write off that percentage, as a loss, and in this day and age with forums such as these, that number will grow, and I don't think any serious business man will be satisfied with "letting go". If so, then that business deserves what it gets.

Yes, sometimes it happens that the honest man has to pay for the transgressions of the dishonest ones....perhaps they have been burned at times for just blanket refunds, I do not know.....not defending them, just trying to understand. I remember at Denton Hill, you used to try out bows by just taking tehm to the practice range and shooting them...several stolen bows later, you now have to leave your bow (if it is of equal value), leave a drivers license, or have the bowyer go with you.....

If 3 Rivers has dropped the ball..then by all means they should be held accountable. Just am leery of blanket statement like "they don't care about you", and such. maybe they have gotten too big.....maybe they need to reevaluate, but that's not for me. I am sure for every person who has a problem, many have had excellent service....same hold true in most everything nowadays.

the great thing about this country, and this business world, is that we have the freedom to deal with whoever we choose, whether it be based on price, service, etc.

I am not defending them, by all means, I worked for their competitor...I was merely trying to shed light on the workings and such at a large supplier. I have probably said enough....I hope the person with the original post has his issue resolved....

It's just that this reminds me of the generalized rationale of some people..."I drove a Ford, the Ford broke down...therefore ALL Fords are horrible!" Pick any auto company or any other company. 

Just my opinion, for what it's worth. 

If you don't want to deal with 3 Rivers, there are others...good luck, and hope you have better experiences in the future......


Lee


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Intresting stuff:

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/06/ohio_company_can_pursue_defama.html


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## LongStick64 (Aug 29, 2009)

Lee
Appreciate the post here, fact was in my case someone other than you since you don't work there any more wasn't as careful packaging my bow up. Yes I accepted the bow and accepted the faults that came with it. Initially I didn't make a big deal about it, in fact I didn't mind it. Because I thought it would be a simple fix. I've refinished bows before and I was up to the task. It was after the fact that when I revisited the bow, I have many of them, that I realized what looked like a scuff mark was actually the glass separating from the bow. I did intend to call but a friend who loves Samick offered me a trade. I took it. I'll take your word that when you worked there, you did your job to the best of your abilities but in my experience the smaller the outfit the more dedication to detail. As has been my experience.


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## Wicked1Archery (Oct 2, 2010)

southarkrob said:


> I don't normally post things like this but I thought I should share my experience with fellow archery enthusists. I ordered a 45lb Samick Sage from them and had them rig a string up with silencers and other stuff. I get the bow and get it assembled and go outside to shoot it...on the first draw it has a very loud creak to it. I thought it was just settling in...the creak persisted every time I drew. I took it down and reassembled it..didnt help.(The creak sounded like it was near where the limb joined the riser) I called them and they said it was probably string wax...this wasnt string wax causing this creak. I shot it for about 30 shots and it never got better. I sent it back wanting credit...when I called for an RGA or whatever I needed they said no problem they would take care of it. When they received it they said that they couldnt issue me a full credit due to the fact that they couldnt find anything wrong with it. They would only credit me back the bow...They sent me the string back and even charged me freight on top of that...It cost me almost $100 dollars to get a defective bow from them. I will never spend another dollar with them. They have had the bow in their possesion for almost 2 wks and still havent issued my credit yet. I am not a novice to archery...I was just wanting to get another bow to work on my form. Just frustrated and a lot lighter in the wallet. I definitely wont recommend them to any of my friends. Just sharing my experience. Robbie


If you purchased using your credit card, you can contact your credit card company and file a dispute over the merchandise not being what you defective and they will reverse any charges you paid to them. Then you would need to send a detailed letter to the company along with the returned merchandise (getting a delivery confirmation of course) and return the items. Explain to the credit card company you tried resolving it with the company directly but they will not work with you and regardless of what they state it is not working properly. It wouldn't hurt to get a statement from a local archery shop that can also confirm the noise is not normal and how it quietness while hunting is of the utmost importance so you would not expect your bow to make that type of noise regardless of the reason. I think its worth a shot if you've exhausted all other possibilities with them, at least then you'll know you've done all you could do. Credit card companies generally find in favor of the consumer so you should be in pretty good shape by going this route.


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

Thanks Wicked ....Still no credit on my card.... if it doesnt show up by in the morning I am going to call my credit card company... this sucks...


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

...


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

I walked away from my computer for a little while and upon rereading this thread have to admit something that is rather hard to admit; I think poster fotoguy may be the better man in this discussion. His posts compared to mine come across a lot more measured and balanced. I'm bordering on screechy. Unfair even. 3Rivers gives me many years of decent service and then I have one bad order. I hear of another bad order by somebody else and decide 3R is no good.

If I stand back and read my posts and then read fotoguy, I come off the lesser person. I can see 3Rivers has no representative in this gang-up and cannot defend themselves. This is unfair. I've been unfair. fotoguy is a good man. I shall start reading all of his posts and maybe learn some humility.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Takes a heck of a guy to admit that Ft. You are right--Fotoguy is a good dude, and straight up. 

I can't make a call about what happened one way or another, but we all know that, sooner or later, we all make mistakes. Give a good man a chance to make it right, he will...the other will just make excuses. Seems you are trying to make it right.

Chad


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## ShoreGobbler (Sep 7, 2008)

I received a Martin recurve from 3 Rivers as a Christmas present one year. Due to the time of year busy with waterfowling season and then a long winter, I never got around to stringing it up and shooting it until Spring. After a few months the top limb began to delaminate. I called 3 Rivers and was told to send the bow back to them as soon as possible. I did pay shipping. No problem. I received a call back in three days after sending the bow informing me I would be receiving a new bow from 3 Rivers. I had the new bow in four days. All that was required was to include a note describing the damage. Was I just lucky? Don't think so. That is how they handled the problem, as they should have. I have since ordered all kinds of gear, bows and gadgets and have been pleased. They don't sound too bad to me!


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## EagleI79 (Jan 14, 2010)

I love Three Rivers wouldn't order from anyone else. Sorry for your experiance you should talk to them first before posting on a forum. If you're new to trad then you will of course have troubles at first. But like Viper 1 said get some help from somebody one on one.


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

Gobbler and Eagle...I am not new to trad..and I have talked to them til i am blue in the face...I am glad that they treated you good...but I am not getting anywhere with them. I truly hope something like this never happens to you.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

BowmanJay said:


> Ive never owned a bow that "creaks" and with the samicks, I have seen 7 of them come apart within the last year alone. Many of them were only months old. I dont think your off base at all feeling the way you do.


this thread is about Samicks?? Well far be it from me then to chime in.... there is nothing positive I can contribute here.... 3 rivers on the other hand, I have limited experience with them, but I've never been dissatisfied and calling them on the phone I've always been able to get someone to talk to. Samicks?? Learn or Yearn.

Much Aloha... :beer:


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## stubborn (Mar 19, 2011)

Most online or mail order stores (most NOT all) never see the vast majority of the products they sell, the manufacturer drop ships the products directly to you from THEIR warehouses. This is where most problems occur.


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## Gypsy (Feb 25, 2011)

Not bashing 3Rivers Customer Service. 

I see many posts similar to this all over forums. 

Online may be cheaper but in the long run just makes more sense to purchase big ticket items through a local shop. 

If there is an issue let them look you in the eye and tell you in front of their in store customers they are not going to resolve the problem. 

You might initially believe you are saving money shopping online.

From what I have read and experienced all to often when problems arise it ends up costing more than one would have paid locally.


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

UPDATE!! Got my credit... out of the $201 it cost me to order a defective bow...I got credited back $124.95... I guess some of you 3River fans would call that a good deal... I will never spend another dime with this company. I guess on the good side of it is that i didnt have to call and raise cane.


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## trapperDave (Mar 12, 2005)

you was refunded the price of the bow, what more you want? You really think they should reimburse the string and other goodies you bought? You could use that stuff on another bow. The bow was bad, they sent your money back...for the bow


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## fotoguy (Jul 30, 2007)

rattus, if I'm not mistaken, the thread was initially about 3rivers and their customer service, and a Samick bow was the item involved. Don't think the intent was a Samick bashing thread. I think whether it was a Samick bow, a DAS bow, a Tomahawk bow, or any other product that they sell is involved, was not as important as the general post about the service received. If you want to start a SAmick bashing thread, by all means do so, but I have seen them, have been involved in them, and am frankly tired of them. You either like them, or dislike them....buy american, or buy foreign.....that is not what this thread was about.

Just my opinion.......


Lee


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

Guys...my complaint here is: when I called them to tell them something was wrong with the bow..I asked what it was going to cost me..I was told that if the bow is defective they will credit me back everything except freight... I understand that completely. When the bow got back to 3Rivers I got a call saying that there was nothing wrong with the bow... and all I was getting back was the money for my bow...I sent the string back with it when I shipped it back. They sent me the string back and charged me freight on it. There was something very wrong with that bow...and I called more or less a liar from them... I get a kick out of some of you guys that tell me I was taken care of..you would cry if somebody screwed you out of a nickel. If you like 3Rivers good..just pray you dont have any return issues with them...took them 2 weeks to the day to credit my money. Bass Pro or Cabelas doesnt take that long.


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

I am not a fan of any company but I am also not a fan of one sided issues. The fact that 3rivers is not local to you is not their fault, shipping is part of doing business through the internet. Reverse credit card transactions must be approved in companies, money moving the wrong way is not something anyone in the company can approve, some do it quicker than others, big deal. If this had been a local purchase you would have paid for the bow and got the money back on a return. The difference here is shipping time lost, shipping dollars lost. That's the way it is and for the sake of keeping down costs I hope it's the way it stays. 

Now to the issue of the bow, they say there is nothing wrong with the bow. So now they return it to Samick and find out from Samick if they will give them a credit for a return on a product. They can't sell it as new, it's not new. 

The cost of business gets paid, it's part of making a profit. There is nothing wrong with profit, it's the grease that keeps the maching running.

And last: you have no idea how long it takes Bass Pro and Cabelas to do a credit return, OR, this is something you do often enough to keep track of such thing? Which is it?


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## fotoguy (Jul 30, 2007)

I understand the frustration, and by no means was my intention to downplay the problem. Two weeks for a credit card refund seems like a long time, until you look into it from the company's aspect. They shipped you the bow. You opened it, put it together, and found the creaking. Tried different things, finally got on the phone to them, they offered some answers, not to your liking, callled them again, they said to ship the bow back and they would check it out. couple more days involved in shipping....they caould not find the problem....don't believe they actually called you a liar, but if you get a bow returned from a customer, and can't duplicate the problem...what do you do? Probably more phone calls....at this time they probably consulted with a person higher up on the corporate chain (sorry to dissappoint you, but that is how business works), adn teh decision was made to credit your account. Even with computers this takes some procedures, credit card companies don't like to do this any more than the company does....total time involved...although two weeks seems like a long time....not really considering things, at least from my perspective. It's hard to believe, but companies like this have more than one customer, and sometimes it's hard to handle everything instantly. Small mom and pop companies have more time to deal with people on a more individual basis. Often times in larger companies, one employee ends up wearing several hats during the course of a day.

I think we are so accustomed in this day and age to instant gratification, whether it be cooking food in a microwave, instant this....24 hour tv and news....smart phones, internet access, instant fixes...that we have become somewhat jaded and spoiled as to things. Some things take time....and I feel as a society we lack any patience in regards to our wants....not trying to preach...I am the same way.....it I had not worked in this industry, I would probably feel the same way. At least from my perspective, if you want to run a successful business, you try to avoid these situations. I have no doubt that this company wants to have customers who are satisfied, and become repeat customers. This instance benefits no one...not the customer and not the business. It's unfortunate this happened, but it happens everywhere, in every kind of business. Try to see how long it takes to get a refund from a cable company, or another service provider.....jumping through hoops is an understatement.

As far as Bass Pro, and Cabelas, we are talking about multi million dollar corporations who do more volume sales in one month than most do in a year. They can absorb an instant credit refund, if they even do that by mail or internet....not sure of their policy on returns and the speed....I live close enough to one of each so I can handle things there in person. 

You feel wronged by 3Rivers, and by all means you are entitled to do so... I am not questioning you or your problem....merely trying to question others statements like "they don't care", and such. They appear to be a successful business, so I am lead to believe at some point, even in the return policies, they have done some things correctly. When I have problems with a company, and call to voice concerns, I am reminded that the person on the other end is a hard working person trying to earn a living, doing the best job they feel they can....just like I am.....

Retail, wholesale sales and service is a very demanding career...probably why I only lasted three years.....maybe that's why I have a more tolerant view than others...

Just my opinion....sorry for your problems.....hope the next company you deal with treats you better......and if you do find that company that does not make mistakes, please let the rest of us know......


Lee


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## southarkrob (Aug 12, 2010)

Elder...Foto...you guys are obviously smarter than I am about things... I wish you the best..I am done with this...I feel I was wronged..talked to rudely by their employees and took 2 weeks from them recieving the bow...not shipping time...to receive a credit. I obviously know nothing about customer service... I am mgr for a company and I cover 7 states...my territory has achieved record growth. So I know how to handle customers and I know how things operate. I have written $30k credits to customers in a day and had it issued to their accts...so 2 weeks is rediculous. On another note...I am an avid hunter...Bow and gun and am a member of alot of forums and am in good staning in all of them..but I have never encountered more mean spirited people than I have on here. I like AT and there are a lot of great guys on here that will help you in any way that they can. I just posted this to try and help somebody from going thru what I went thru...


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Understand, I am not trying to be mean to you. But again, you didn't go through anything. 
Let me recap for you.
Your bow made a noise. 3rivers suggested a cause. You didn't agree. They took the bow back and found nothing wrong with it. They took the hit. You got your money back. and this took 2 weeks.

And your goal is to prevent other people from going through this.

Forgive me if I sounded mean to you but I don't get it, at all.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

well guys sat back and read all threads... when you order a 125 dollar item and acc`s as a previous store owner {not archery} the moto is the customer is always right.. and the reason being again 125 dollar item ...returned higher priced items need not apply here... you`ll loose a lot more than the 125 dollars in sales.. Personally the buyer paid shipping.. the string is useless to him as he may not have another bow to put it on... etc etc .. The store will not loose money... the supplier will take it back because that 15 or 20 thousand dollar booking order placed with supplier may depend on it... If the manager of the store decides bow is ok then sell it at a reduced cost.. guess what they are still making money on that unit.. and can warranty it.. shipping was covered both ways by buyer ... bad judgement call by manager or owner of business.. imho..


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Classichunter, 
You might be right, not disagreeing with you here. And I think they should have taken the string back, and I agree that 2 weeks is longer than it should take to make things right. But I have no idea what went on here, all I know is what i read on this thread. That ain't much.
But again: shipping is not part of the price because it's different for each transaction. No matter if a deal goes well or blows up shipping is yours. And: A manufacturer might not take back product, these agreements are based on contracts, they are not based on circumstances or volume. I have no idea what the contract says, nor do any of us know the details. 

Years ago I was involved in distrubution sales, these contracts took forever to settle before they were signed. We would ship product to distribution based on contract requirments even if it didn't sell. The contracts didn't care if they were eventually sold or burned or ate for supper they could not come back. The pricing was based on performance to the contract, period. It' brutal out there.

Ever wonder if someone in a small company is depending of a paycheck? Perhaps it's not the owner, might be a stock clerk, who knows right? I guess I see people getting hurt by our mob mentality. Mabe I am wrong.


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## Stykshooter (Aug 2, 2007)

I spent several hundreds of dollars annually with 3 Rivers in the past 15 plus years. That all came to a stop when they started marketing the Dalaa bows with ILF limbs and refused to identify which limbs they were using beneath the camoflage dip. The limbs all had the same price regardless of whether there was a set of $100.00 ilf limbs under the dip or a set of $500.00 limbs. Seemed decietful to me.


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