# D-loop all by itself - no knocking points??



## Hightower650 (Jan 6, 2008)

The guru at the proshop I shoot at likes D-loops all by themselves - no knocking points of any kind, string tied or otherwise. He is extremely knowledgable, and a very talented shooter, and I am impressed with his tuning abilities and string making - top notch all the way.

He tied one on my Vectrix, pulled it as tight as a frog's arse, doesn't seem possible for it to slip.

Pros and Cons? Obvisouly if it slips that would suck, and also if it came untied or broke there is nothing to keep the arrow in place and all heel brakes loose. But how many of you guys have heard of either happening?

I am optomistic, yet apprehensive at the same time...


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## dauriek (May 15, 2007)

I have been shooting just a tied on loop ever since I started shooting (hasn't been that long) and have not had any problems. I had to move my loop down a bit as well and I'll tell you, as tight as mine was tied it will not slip! I had all I could do to loosen it to move it. If it is tied well you will have no worries.
Kirk


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Loops almost never slip up and down the string. They just don't don't, although they can spin around it.....and that can be frustrating in itself.

Nock points inside the loop are not there to prevent slippage. They do make putting a new loop on much simpler and quicker as you can easily put the new one in the exact same place, though. What a nock point DOES do is prevent a phenomenon known as "nock pinch". This is a serious issues at times, depending on your gear being used, and happens most often with short axle to axle bows. Basically, the lower knot will push upwards on the underside of the nock and cause the arrow to lift off the rest or to not sit solidly on the rest. You'll notice it quite easily. The arrow will lift off the rest at turn most times. A small tied in nock point below the arrow, but still inside the loop, can prevent this and is a fantastic way to increase the downward pressure of the arrow on the rest, which can be a big help while shooting downward or in windy conditions.

That being said, I have used loops both with and without.....in fact, my two bows I shoot regularly right now are set up with and without nock points. It can work fine without them, but if pinch and lift is a problem, or you want an easy way to relocate a new loop, a nock point works GREAT!


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## Hightower650 (Jan 6, 2008)

thanks guys,
that makes great sensexp35


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I used a loop all by itself, but problems arose. I went with two tied string nocks, the upper the nocking point and the lower spaced to eliminate nock pinch as XP35 noted.


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## ButchrCrekHuntr (Mar 26, 2005)

In addition to what others have pointed out above, with the D-loop tied by itself, you will not be pulling directly behind the arrow which then causes most of the above problems. Setting the D-loop up so you pull directly behind the arrow should give you your best accuracy or grouping.


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## GCOD (Nov 24, 2006)

ButchrCrekHuntr said:


> In addition to what others have pointed out above, with the D-loop tied by itself, you will not be pulling directly behind the arrow which then causes most of the above problems. Setting the D-loop up so you pull directly behind the arrow should give you your best accuracy or grouping.


not true


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## Sep/timber/heat (Dec 8, 2007)

Would it be better to use a nock at the top and bottom of the loop, or just at the bottom. Speed reduction is not a concern.


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## Bellows1 (Oct 19, 2003)

I tie in a knot above and below the the knock inside the d-loop. It makes it a lot easier to change your d-loop if it wears, there's no messing with the height again, just tie it on and you're done. It also help eliminate nock pinch.


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## ButchrCrekHuntr (Mar 26, 2005)

GCOD--If you can read, and for others who may be interested in looking at illustrations and explanations of the advantages/disadvantages of different ways to tie on nock locators, go to John Dudley's website at www.dudleyarchery or read the article, Getting Hooked Up, by Larry Wise in the July, 2007, Arrow Trade magazine.


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## Hightower650 (Jan 6, 2008)

When I picked my bow up yesterday, freshly restrung with the Proshop owner's own handmade strings (super craftsmanship I must say), we set up the rest (whisker biscuit), I shot a 3 shot group and made one sight adjustment, and then shot 20 arrows into the 5 ring, with 8 of them cutting the x-ring, at 20 yards. This was without a stabilizer or wrist sling, both of which will be added soon. So the d-loop all by itself seems to be quite capable of grouping great, at least with my particular setup and rest type, and I am sure I can get more x cuts once I finish setting up and get a sling and stabilizer on her.

I do however see the potential of arrow lift on a rest other than a biscuit, and I also see how convenient it would be to change the loop without having to fuss with getting the location exactly right or retuning position. I did run across that John Dudley article, and it is a GREAT article with plenty of perfect pictures to illistrate everything he is talking about.

One advantage of the loop only, at least during preliminary tuning, is that the drop tine wisker biscuits have no vertical adjustment - you must move the knock up or down. cutting off and retying tied knocks over and over would be a pain. maybe you can sinch the d-loop down tight enough to not move, while leaving 1mm extra space between the two knots for the arrow nock to keep nock pinch at bay, and once tuning is satisfied you cen then tie some knock points from there...


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## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

Ive been shooting my loops by themselves for alot of years now and never had a problem. If tied correctly they dont slip up and down the string. If the knots are tied opposite of each other the loop will not spin around either. But if you need to fine tune the knocking point you can spin the loop around the string if needed.


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## Alan in GA (Oct 21, 2005)

*using 'nock locs' on my 26" ata bow,,,,*

The string angle at draw is sharp on my PSE Super Short X Force so I tied in noc knots for reinforcment.


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## voxito (Apr 16, 2006)

I shoot tune-a-nocks with a loop without knots tied inside. They have little indentions made for loop knots, and I've never had a arrow lift up as mentioned. My loops don't slip, I did like Bernie said and put a little white-out on the outsides of the loop and on the ends of the serving. I do see where the knots would help for loop replacement and I will definately tie some on next time.


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## droptine7 (Feb 2, 2008)

loop only why the nocks?


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## watermedic23 (Aug 23, 2006)

*Loops*

If loops are tied correctly, they are not tight against the top and bottom of the nock. This keeps nock pinch from happening. 

Nock an arrow on your string, take it off of the rest and let it go if it holds itself up, the loop is too tight.

I use needle nose pliers to tighten my loops. They will not slip on the string and it provides the spacing necessary to prevent pinch.

Chuck


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

I use Viper D-loop pliers... no slips yet....


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## CJT (Jun 8, 2007)

A loop tied correctly should not slip . Whether you use nock sets or not is a matter of preference unless your getting arrow lift . I've shot both ways , now without nocksets . Shoots fine without.


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## lunger (Sep 2, 2006)

I used D loop only for years. I got this method off another forum.Tried it and very happy with results http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2185934


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## ngabowhunter (Mar 9, 2006)

In all the years, I just use a loop and only one fat lip and I seen stars. I pull away from my face a little now, then bring it over. works for me


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