# How many arrows in a practice session?



## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Sorry, I imagine this has been covered many times over but I haven't been able to find a thread using the search function. 

I've got three sets of limbs, 28#, 32#, and 34#. I've got an 18 yard indoor range in the hay loft of a barn, so I'm not out shooting long distances, plus I'm in my sixties and my shoulders aren't in the best shape. With the lightest limbs I can shoot 100 arrows with no strain and no residual fatigue the next day. Up to 34# I can get off about 60 or so shots with the same results. I was just talking with a guy who claims to have been a factory sponsored compound shooter with an 80# draw weight who said he never shot more than 20 arrows in one session because after that his form/accuracy started to unravel. I'm dubious - I usually get better groups after I warm up with 20 or so- and did even back when I shot compound. I've read some of the Olympic recurve archers routinely shoot 600 per day. I'm a non-driven amateur and shoot bare-bow mostly for the meditative aspects of the process.

What say you? Is there a general consensus on what constitutes an optimal practice or do most people just shoot until they tire?


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

i shoot 250-300 on the days i shoot. I am 54 years old. Most of my JOAD kids shoot 125-150 per session. 

Top archers shoot way more than 20 arrows a session. Thats not even a Vegas round. If his form started to unravel at 20, then he couldnt make it through a single 300 round. I wouldnt put ANY weight in advice from him. He is way over bowed, and giving you poor advice, and his factory sponsorship was probably not from shooting. 

If you are a recreational archer, I would shoot as long as you enjoy it, and it doesnt cause you any pain. Fatigue is something you work on to build stamina. So fatigue is ok. 

If you want to compete some, then 100-150 is plenty. If you can do that at 32#, then shoot that. No need to go up in poundage unless you are trying to make a distance outdoors competitively. 

Chris


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Thanks - the guy who told me this weighs about 20 pounds more than his claimed draw weight. I don't think I'd have much trouble getting up to 150 a day if I put my mind to it but at this late date I've finally started listening to my body and quit comparing what I can do now with what I used to do. I really appreciate the perspective.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

There's no guideline that works for everyone. Pretty much keep shooting until you reach the point where you're causing more harm than good, and you won't go wrong.

That could mean you reach a fatigue point, or a boredom point, or just plain run out of time.


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## labonte.r (Oct 1, 2010)

Some days I'll shoot 100 arrows some days I'll shoot only six. If I'm money first six arrows I might call it a day. If I find I start getting tired I immediately quit as I don't want to break down and cause bad habits. Everyone's different do what makes you comfortable.


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## Mengtian (May 5, 2016)

I have been shooting a year and a few months now. I have my shoulder reconstructed, and in my 50's and I shoot 20 to over a hundred a day...depending on my time, mood, and interest.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

i started to get serious with olympic archery in my 50s and joined as many tournaments as possible..

my normal regimen was about 50-60 arrows everyday in my backyard range up to 25 meters and 300-400 arrows on the weekend in an outdoor range 100 miles away..

i was pulling a max of 38# then with my heaviest limbs...

i found it pretty effective but when i missed even one day of shooting it would show in my shooting when i shot again..


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

anywhere from 36 to 300


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

I'm over 70 and shoot compound & recurve everyday. With the recurve I was fixated on shooting 100 arrows a day. What I found was that with that purpose I shot way to fast counting shots to get in my 100. A better idea was lowering draw weight and trying to slow down by placing more value on striving for a practice time rather than a shot count. Some days a session is short of my goal of a 2 hour session. Fatigue at my age is the enemy, finding ways to minimize fatigue is part of my practice session. 
If I see myself making mistakes I stop, rethink, and not "program the mistakes".
There are days when I'll shoot a dozen arrows, stop and come back to the range later to shoot again. Quality practice for me is practicing with a purpose. Grip, anchor, load, release, tune, adjust, stance, shot sequence, change of equipment, all require my full focused attention and practice.
Nick


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Your buddy's anecdotal 80lb/20 arrows max has zero relevance to target shooting, both on the poundage and on the volume. Erika Jones is the indoor WA compound world record holder and she shoots a 45lb bow (and her training regularly involves a heck of a lot more than 20 arrows/practice session.

Gotta have some reasonable volume ability to hone/polish/groove your shot process, but also have to have some reasonable amount of draw weight to have enough pressure against your fingers to pull smoothly through the string. With age, the collective harmony between those two requirements can start to diverge. Finding the happy medium can be elusive and ever-changing. Try a draw weight that allows for 40-60 good-form shots on average a day, and that you can shoot this draw weight/volume 4 or 5 days a week ... then adjust to taste.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I do not shoot arrows to shoot arrows. I shoot a tournament round. It might be a 300 round indoors or a field round outdoors. I want to shoot as strong at the end of the round as I do at the beginning. Shooting six arrows a day would be like shooting the practice round prior to a 900 round and then quitting. I am also over 70 and need to work harder to keep up my strength.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

When I asked about the number of arrows, that truly was all I was asking about. I figured the guy with the 80# draw was, uh, exaggerating. 

Everyone has their own goals, physical limitations, etc. Time is not an issue for me except in the greater sense and from what a couple of you guys have volunteered, I may have more years of shooting than I thought. My focus is on getting to the right place mentally and being mindful of the process, and thinking about what happened with each shot. I don't count shots like it's a form of scoring, just as a gauge of where I am physically. Now that I have my own indoor range I can shoot as often as I like so I'm less likely to shoot longer than I feel like I should just because it was a long drive to the commercial range - which is going out of business anyway. (Got a great deal on some range equipment yesterday.)

I sold my 25+ year old 55# recurve hunting bow last fall when I started having problems with an old shoulder injury (3rd degree A/C separation - surgery - doctor warning about overstressing it, etc.) I got a couple target risers and limb sets, including the 28# limbs and have had no trouble at all shooting as much as I've wanted and I've found I enjoy shooting targets much more. I do like the bigger "thwack" of the arrows hitting with the 34# limbs but at the range I'm shooting, it's only slightly flatter shooting and seems like overkill. 

Thanks very much for the comments!


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## Nick728 (Oct 19, 2014)

I was shooting 100 arrows a day @20 yards with 30# limbs but it was 37 to 40# on the fingers. 100 arrows in my yard in less than an hour was a false indicator and gave a false sense of confidence. I went to a 900 round and reality set in! After 45 arrows or less I felt the difference between 100 quickly shot arrows in the yard and a match taking 4 times the time to shoot the same amount of arrows and every shot is scored. Post #11 has the right idea, mimic a round and score it to evaluate your session. I'm still new to Oly and shoot mostly compound 3D. Everything I practice is for a purpose.


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## JustSomeDude (Jan 27, 2013)

Make sure your BRAIN is still working when shooting in bulk. I will catch myself shooting more ends just because I don't want to quit on a bad shot 

When I am not trying to iron out a technique issue, I go out and shoot a 'round' or two in my back yard field/3D range in the morning and evening. Mostly straw bales scattered around the yard. Generally about 40 arrows. If I see a problem popping up, I step over to the flat target area and shoot ends. Then I might shoot another round to make me feel good before quitting.


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## GamerMav (Jun 24, 2017)

I have two types of practice session, much like gym work. You don't want to sprint on the treadmill all the time. And you don't want to do heavy lifting all the time. I have "heavy lifting" practice when I try to put 150-300ish arrows through my bow over say a few hours. I also have "sprint" practice when I shoot 12-arrow ends and just keep shooting until I'm tired. 

Indoor nights we shoot 3 per end so it takes forever. It's hardly practice. 12-arrow ends for 90 mins is more than enough shooting but it's very quick if you're in a crunch. The days I improve most are the slow, long plodding ones. Shoot 5 ends of 6 arrows, break, shoot 5 more ends, break, shoot 5 more ends, longer break, shoot 5 more ends. 120 arrows to start and it's taken a bit of time. My form usually improves the most on these days.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Rule of thumb I have heard is double the competition arrow count. Re your colleague the convergence of high-weight number and low-arrow count sounds like stereotypical overbowing. Because, the idea on weight is to get it where you can do the rule of thumb arrow count above, or at least the competition count, without giving points away to fatigue (my sense is when I go up sometimes I start out faster but the drop off is sufficiently rough I net out worse.....but the scientific way to assess is shoot fresh 300s with each set of limbs and confirm). And so we come full circle.


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

It depends on the day. I have planned heavy and planned light days. Ranges anywhere between 45 and 250.


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

We need a "Like" button. Lots of good ideas here - thanks.


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## Vexie (Nov 3, 2015)

I think there is a big difference between gearing up to hunt big game and gearing up for competition; therefore how many arrows one shoots will be affected also. Since you're not doing either and are enjoying the meditative aspect, I'd concentrate on gearing up for that. 

Shoot a low enough poundage that you can shoot until you're satisfied without damage to your body.
Warm up your shoulders before shooting with several shoulder exercises


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## Mark Talley (Aug 10, 2016)

Yes on the warm-up exercises - I have some exercises I use to loosen up overall beforehand. I also run and work out with modest weight at a gym two or three times a week and this weekend I spent about four hours between the two days wielding a sizeable chainsaw, bucking and clearing two trees the power company felled for me - and I can feel it today. I think I could work up to heavier draw weights but unless I'm shooting distances which require it, I'm content with what I have. I would like to try some barebow competition but I'd like to be a better shot before I venture into that. With my new indoor range just across the yard, I'm going to get religious about practicing daily.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I agree with Arsi and would modify what I was saying to mean that the test of whether the arrow count in general is ok is whether on an average day when you are trying to get some significant arrows in (and not go light or emphasize technique) and are in shape (not in preseason form), if on that kind of a day you do 120 or whatever.


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## tkaap (Nov 30, 2009)

Mark Talley said:


> I would like to try some barebow competition but I'd like to be a better shot before I venture into that..


I agree with your thought process about everything else you've written. Except this. Please venture immediately into any and all competitions you're interested in. You will learn so much more and so much more quickly by diving in. 

I don't know of anyone who has ever said "Looking back, I wish I would have waited another year before trying my first competition." But there are boatloads of archers who say "Looking back, I should have started trying competitions much earlier." Even if barebow competition doesn't end up being your cup of tea, you'll find out the reality instead of what you hear from yahoos on the Internet like us...

-T


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I felt like the mistake I made when I started was not so much doing tournaments, even though I started when I sucked, was instead signing up for so many and letting the competitive mentality get where I would resist form changes if I had a tournament coming up that week, which I was so busy I often did. Net effect was I wouldn't really have room to grow during tournament season, because of the scheduling and the mentality. I think that's the real issue, as opposed to the ego issue.

My counter-argument on "I'll show up when I am good and ready" is a sense of entitlement can develop where you if you wait til you're "good" you think you get a tournament score JUST for all that practice work, downplay the tournament part of it, and get befuddled on off-days. Is it that you want to do the work, or is it that you want to show up from a power position comfortable to the ego? Someone who shows up shooting 200s generally will learn to fight for every point (even when they improve) because it's inherently a struggle at that score level, while someone who shows up shooting 260 CAN think they deserve that 260 no matter what happens, may mentally implode when not just handed their practice score. This is only true of x% but I see it in some archers who wait til later on to do tournaments. Cannot handle adversity so well because they were held out until they were so good they thought adversity was past. When to me in some ways drilling end after high end is probably even more mentally demanding than making something out of a beginner's hit and miss rounds.

I'd also say that you don't know what you don't know yet until you try it in a tournament. Even if you just occasionally do one and focus on form/training/improvement in general, you want to start learning "game" lessons and whether your form holds up in competitive circumstances. I mean, in soccer part of how you start figuring out what do I need to work on is scrimmages and games. OK, I keep losing the ball, missing the goal, missing passes. I thought I was OK in practice but I don't do it in a game. Maybe I need more practice. You go work harder and try and fix it. Learn more next game. Go back and work on it some more. etc. I think as long as you're honest about what's working and not working, and avoid the mentality where it's like I can't make changes because I want to compete, then you'll be fine.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

one important thing to remember when practicing is that your body should be in the best shape possible to really make it effective..

when i go to the golf range i hit a lot of balls but when i feel my body is no longer in optimum condition i stop and try again another day..

i guess it's almost common sense to do this in all sports which requires some physicality..


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## Bomp (Dec 28, 2021)

chrstphr said:


> i shoot 250-300 on the days i shoot. I am 54 years old. Most of my JOAD kids shoot 125-150 per session.
> 
> Top archers shoot way more than 20 arrows a session. Thats not even a Vegas round. If his form started to unravel at 20, then he couldnt make it through a single 300 round. I wouldnt put ANY weight in advice from him. He is way over bowed, and giving you poor advice, and his factory sponsorship was probably not from shooting.
> 
> ...


Can you forward me a plan on how you do 250/day? I’m new to the sport but have been very successful in other sports and I want to do some events. TIA


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Bomp said:


> Can you forward me a plan on how you do 250/day? I’m new to the sport but have been very successful in other sports and I want to do some events. TIA


Hi, These are some general guidelines....

First i woud make sure you arent overbowed. 

Second, you build up to 250-300 a day. You should start with a goal of say 100 arrows or 150 arrows in a session. You dont try to shoot 300 if you only shoot 30-60 in a session. Try doubling the amount of arrows for a few weeks or shooting a quarter more. Take resting breaks if you need to during the session. Try adding 30 minutes time to your shooting session to build if the number is difficult. 

3. Get a counter. Counting your arrows will give you real numbers, i never found my thinking to be accurate when i would try and think how many ends i had shot. Unless you score a 300 round. 
4. shoot indoors at first or shoot 18 meters so you can retrieve arrows faster. This will help with the time allotments to get to 250-300. Then branch out to 30 meters, then 50, 70 etc. 
5. Have 12 arrows and shoot a full quiver full each end. Doesnt matter if you shoot 5, and then you let the line go get arrows, and then when they come back, you shoot the rest of your quiver. You shoot a full quiver. ( you can shoot two targets, or a 3 spot etc.). If you dont have 12 arrows, shoot all that you have. Not just 3 per end. 

when i was training and competing, i could shoot 100 arrows per hour at 70 meters including walking back and forth. So if i shot 300 arrows, that was 3 hours shooting. 500 arrows was 5 hours. 

In the beginning, your first half will probably be fairly good shooting. Say 50-60 arrows, then 70-100 will suck and hard to maintain form. This is when you build stamina and strength. it helps to have a coach so you dont train in bad form during the suck section. 

As you progress, you will find you get a second wind. When i was shooting 500 arrows, usually by 250-300 i was good, then 300-350 was a struggle, and then 350-500 would be like the first 250. 

You build to these type of volume. dont over do it. Nothing should be painful. You may be sore the next day, that is common, but nothing should ever hurt with archery. 

If you train and shoot 4 times a week, 250-300 arrows per session, you will never have any trouble at a tournament shooting 100 to 150 tournament arrows. 

My JOAD kids use to shoot four 300 rounds in a session at 18 meters. Practice was about 3 hours with a 20 minute break in the middle. 
At first they would shoot one 300 round and act exhausted. When i told them we would shoot four, they would groan and grumble ( mostly thinking they couldnt do it). So i devised a game. 

Shoot four 300 rounds. Each X they shot got them a prize arrow to shoot. At the end of the four 300 rounds, most of the kids had accumulated 6-10. I would then put up a special target and if they shot an X they would win $20 cash.
Had two or three kids win the $20. 

After the first session with them accumulating Xs for chances to shoot the prize target, suddenly they couldnt shoot enough 300 rounds in a practice. They wanted many shots at the X for that $20. No more grumbling about four 300 rounds in a session. They learned very quickly they have the strength and stamina if they set their mind to it. Scores went way up as well. Then going to a tournament and shooting one or two 300 rounds in a DAY was nothing. 

Chris


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

To Chris's post I would add this, you first have to consider where you are; you have a greater chance of developing injuries if you jump from say 50 arrows a session to 300. I would also consider cycling your volumes, where some days you shoot a lot but also allow yourself recovery days where you only shoot a few, just enough to work the kinks out but also allowing recovery. Then, not only cycling volumes on a daily basis, but also weekly. 

So, in a monthly training program, you might pick one day of the week where you are going to shoot say 300... Your first week you shoot 80% or 240 on your max day; the second week 90% or 270; the third week 100%; then allow yourself a recovery week where your greatest volume is only about 35% or 105 arrows. 

You plan this cycling around your competitions- say you have a big club shoot or state event, set your training cycle such that the competition is at the end of your recovery week. 

If you are going to shoot high volumes as training for an event, you also have to change your mindset from archery as a hobby to archery as a sport; from being recreational to being an athlete; from simply practicing to actually training... Mindlessly shooting arrows just for the volumes is simply mindless shooting; shooting with a purpose [i.e. spending time working on grip or follow through or aiming or whatever] is training... Practice is all the fun stuff like shooting scores and games; training is dedicating yourself to all the archery that sucks... Training goes well beyond just the archery, but should also include strength training, flexibility routines, nutrition [often overlooked but important to recovery], cardio/aerobic exercise [no, archery isn't an aerobic activity, but aerobic capacity does help when dealing with environmental issues like extreme heat or stress], Massage [even self treatments with foam rollers or tennis balls or percussion massagers] to increase blood flow to trained muscles and break up muscle adhesions, and STPs to further condition the "archery muscles." 

Shooting 500 arrows in a day is great, but should be done with a purpose and supported off the range by your lifestyle for optimum results. 500 arrows just for the sake of 500 arrows can offer more negatives than improvements and is just a waste of time if your end goal is training to compete. 

My two farthings.


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## Bomp (Dec 28, 2021)

chrstphr said:


> Hi, These are some general guidelines....
> 
> First i woud make sure you arent overbowed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the time and effort put into this reply!!! 🤯


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