# String angle and anchor points.



## Gutsdozer

Hello,

I have a Bowtech assassin that is just slightly over 30" axle to axle. This angle it creates seems to be making it hard for me to touch the corner of my mouth and my nose. I also have a small (short) nose so that doesn't help. To touch my nose I have to hold the string back from my mouth. It ends up being approximately 1/2" to 3/4" from the corner of my mouth. My draw length is 29" and I'm using a wrist release.

I don't know enough to make proper adjustments. Any help is appreciated.


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## mike 66

with a short A-A bow it gets difficult to touch the nose... almost impossible. so get a anchor spot that works for you..the key is to do it the same way the same spot every time.it helps you you have proper form & the form allows you to be lined up..so you can execute the shot.. most that i see dont have the wrist held set in the right spot , most i see are long.post some pics... a close up of the face, and a shot head to toe while shooting a LEVEL target will help a lot...


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## Gutsdozer

mike 66 said:


> with a short A-A bow it gets difficult to touch the nose... almost impossible. so get a anchor spot that works for you..the key is to do it the same way the same spot every time.it helps you you have proper form & the form allows you to be lined up..so you can execute the shot.. most that i see dont have the wrist held set in the right spot , most i see are long.post some pics... a close up of the face, and a shot head to toe while shooting a LEVEL target will help a lot...


I'll try and get some pics up later. It seems more natural to me to use the tip of my nose for some reason. I do have the release pretty short. I thought it might be too short. I am trying to learn to use back tension with a Carter Quickie 1 Plus.


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## Gutsdozer

For some reason this is the only pic that I decided to look through my peep...I guess I was busy thinking about other things.


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## Gutsdozer

I do have to tilt my head down a bit to see clearly through the peep. I realize this now that I was really trying to pay attention.


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## bonecollector66

tag for wife to read


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## aread

You are doing better than I would have expected based on your bow's ATA and your DL. However, to accommodate the short ATA bow, you have increased the DL more than is optimum, you've tilted your head forward, and you've raised your anchor point.

One thing that I see that will hurt your accuracy is the amount of face contact with the string. Some people can shoot at a high level with this much or more string contact. However, for most, it makes for a less consistent shot. Any tiny change in the amount of pressure will change the point of impact.

If you only hunt, you can probably get away with what you are doing now. If you plan to compete in target archery, you will do better with a different bow.

Allen


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## Gutsdozer

aread said:


> you've tilted your head forward, and you've raised your anchor point.
> 
> Allen


Thanks for the replies so far. It is appreciated!

I've actually worked on this first. I've raised my peep just a bit and lowered my anchor (cheek bone not lip or nose) to a new and more natural feeling point. Seems to be working so far.


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## mike 66

the pic may be fooling me some but it looks like your elbow on your release arm is way back behind the head, dl. long to the release aid needs to be shorter, looks like its to loose on the wrist ..good advice from allen also... work on one thing till its perfect then move on


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## Gutsdozer

mike 66 said:


> the pic may be fooling me some but it looks like your elbow on your release arm is way back behind the head, dl. long to the release aid needs to be shorter, looks like its to loose on the wrist ..good advice from allen also... work on one thing till its perfect then move on


I have shortened my release and strapped it on tighter. Now its actually hard for me to get my arm back as far as it is in these pics. Feels better too. My right shoulder doesn't fatigue like it was. Thanks!


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## ron w

the short bows have caused many to set up with a really long ...way too long....draw length, in order to get that string on their nose. 
these short bows are just bad joke as far as decent archery posture and form is concerned. this, "short bow" trend, is wrecking archery and forcing people to adopt all sorts of bad habits and misunderstood ideals about good form and how it relates to a good shot.
it is getting so bad that things like completely closed stances ( something most guys don't even realize is a concept), dipped heads, way too high anchor points and picking your bow by the let off percentage in the interest of speed, instead of the draw length, are becoming, "accepted standards".
these short bows are simply not made to fit our human anatomy and the desire to follow this trend is producing mass ignorance about archery in general. the manufactures have to realize and see this happening and they don't care as long as people keep buying these ridiculously short bows they make.
you have to understand, that by all mechanical and engineering theories, the length of a bow doesn't matter, it can be made to operate perfectly well and accurately, at any length, draw weight, or let-off,... it is simply a couple of springs and some wheels, that have to be timed correctly to produce good nock travel, but the impact on the effect of applying that theory to us, as the user or shooter, has very devastating consequences to consistency and comfort experienced when shooting the bow. 
in years past, there were never so many questions common basic issues that there are now. this is because people buy these short bows and find out they simply ca't get them to fit the way a bow should,...and the questions arise. when bows were longer, these questions didn't arise, because a guy picked up a bow, drew it back anf the common ideals of how a bow should fit became apparent as the string came more or less nicely to the face and things made evidential sense because string angles were such that they came much closer to what our anatomy required. it was clearly apparent, that with just a little adjustment of draw length, that "golden triangle" of fit could be attained. with these short bows, a guy draws it back and the string is way out in nowhere land, and what is his normal anchor, must be moved way back, almost behing his ear, if he is to establish even some essence of that golden triangle of anchor repeatability and stability. suddenly all the questions start arising, about ,"well I always learned that ...this or that.... how come I can't do that with my new bow?. the answer...you have to forget about everything you always knew was correct and decent form. consequential results....bow manufacturers are forcing us to buther up what we know is "good archery", and we are actually requesting them to do it by our desire to follow this trend. if you think this not true, why don't all the people who continue to punch that X-ring and get paid to do it, use these 30 inch bows to do it ?.
in all my 40 years of shooting, I have never witness such a huge group of uninformed shooters, as there are since this trend to short bows has arisen.


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## Gutsdozer

ron w said:


> the short bows have caused many to set up with a really long ...way too long....draw length, in order to get that string on their nose.
> these short bows are just bad joke as far as decent archery posture and form is concerned. this, "short bow" trend, is wrecking archery and forcing people to adopt all sorts of bad habits and misunderstood ideals about good form and how it relates to a good shot.
> it is getting so bad that things like completely closed stances ( something most guys don't even realize is a concept), dipped heads, way too high anchor points and picking your bow by the let off percentage in the interest of speed, instead of the draw length, are becoming, "accepted standards".
> these short bows are simply not made to fit our human anatomy and the desire to follow this trend is producing mass ignorance about archery in general. the manufactures have to realize and see this happening and they don't care as long as people keep buying these ridiculously short bows they make.
> you have to understand, that by all mechanical and engineering theories, the length of a bow doesn't matter, it can be made to operate perfectly well and accurately, at any length, draw weight, or let-off,... it is simply a couple of springs and some wheels, that have to be timed correctly to produce good nock travel, but the impact on the effect of applying that theory to us, as the user or shooter, has very devastating consequences to consistency and comfort experienced when shooting the bow.
> in years past, there were never so many questions common basic issues that there are now. this is because people buy these short bows and find out they simply ca't get them to fit the way a bow should,...and the questions arise. when bows were longer, these questions didn't arise, because a guy picked up a bow, drew it back anf the common ideals of how a bow should fit became apparent as the string came more or less nicely to the face and things made evidential sense because string angles were such that they came much closer to what our anatomy required. it was clearly apparent, that with just a little adjustment of draw length, that "golden triangle" of fit could be attained. with these short bows, a guy draws it back and the string is way out in nowhere land, and what is his normal anchor, must be moved way back, almost behing his ear, if he is to establish even some essence of that golden triangle of anchor repeatability and stability. suddenly all the questions start arising, about ,"well I always learned that ...this or that.... how come I can't do that with my new bow?. the answer...you have to forget about everything you always knew was correct and decent form. consequential results....bow manufacturers are forcing us to buther up what we know is "good archery", and we are actually requesting them to do it by our desire to follow this trend. if you think this not true, why don't all the people who continue to punch that X-ring and get paid to do it, use these 30 inch bows to do it ?.
> in all my 40 years of shooting, I have never witness such a huge group of uninformed shooters, as there are since this trend to short bows has arisen.


So what is a "good" axle to axle length bow? I've seen them around the 35" mark. I'd gladly give up some speed to gain better/easier to attain form. Being new I went to the local shop and they set me up with this. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy shooting it. I'll probably be in the market next year for a "nicer" bow anyway. Also, it sounds like your angry at the archery world in general. I didn't mean to offend you. I'm just trying to get better at shooting.


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## aread

With a 29" DL, you should be looking for something with a 37" ATA or greater. 

Look for a bow that can be adjusted to fit you. Obviously, this is not an easy thing for a new archer. One rule of thumb is the nock should be directly below your aiming eye at full draw and the string should make an angle very close to 90 degrees. One study several years ago, showed that all of the archers on the podium at the big tournaments met these two criteria.

One bow that works for a lot of people is the PSE Supra Max. It has a very wide range of DL adjustment & pretty good ATA and enough speed to use for hunting or 3D. If you plan to shoot strictly target, the Mathews Conquest 4 or Apex 8 are good choices as are the Hoyt target bows. I understand that Bowtech has discontinued their only target bow, the Specialist.

I'm in complete agreement Ron about short bows. I understand that the manufacturers are just producing what the market demands, but most of them are doing a poor job of serving archers. And I think that most shops are doing a worse job. Your shop did an OK job of setting you up, but you are still changing your form to fit the bow. It should be the other way around. 

I hope we haven't confused you too much.
Allen


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## ron w

exactly,....
it has gotten to the point,...with these short bows,.... that we are changing our form to fit the bows being produced and that is generating a whole population of confused and uninformed shooters. 
some might sat that it's no big deal, things change as technology changes, but the fact is that what is considered good form, has been constructed around the dimensions and functional integrity of our anatomy, ad that is not changing. that is where I say that these short bows are not designed to fit our anatomy, they are designed to fit the current desires of the brainwashed market and it seems everyone is just blindly accepting it. it's a vicious circle, we ask for short bows, the market supplies them and that reinforces the trend of our desires, until it becomes the new standard. unfortunately that new standard is a misinformed one.


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