# Group looks like a football



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I am shooting an advantage with dual draw stops that hit the limbs. My release is a hooker. I have gone from a 29" draw down to a 27 7/8" draw over the last 2 years.

I have been struggling to keep a round group. At 20 yards my group is 2" tall and 4" wide. Many times I know that the sights are lined up and the arrow should go into the x but it lands 2" to the right or left. I thought that I might be torquing the bow so I put a back pin sight on the bow so that I could see any torque. Still with no torque the arrows will go left and right.

I have noticed that if I keep back tension and let my index finger relax that the arrows go down the middle. I am thinking that my problem is totally in how my release hand is moving which causes the shot to go right or left. I have been working trying to find a way to be consistent but so far I have not had any luck. It even seems that the angle at which I hold my release hand makes a difference in how the arrow impacts. 

Does anyone have a very simple anchor and release technique that I can try that might be very consistent?


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## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

It's tough to give specific advice without actually being there to see you shoot and there are many things that could be causing left and right flyers.

The first one I thought of was torque. Shooting with a rear sight lets you be sure that there is no torque at full draw, but torque can still occur between your bowhand and the grip... if your release hand is coming off the string in a sideways direction. The release hand popping straight back is the goal. If you are executing the shot with a "now" command between your brain and your trigger finger, tension in the muscles of the hand is inevitable. This tension will usually cause the release hand to either snap off the string to one side, freeze or twist... none of which is very good. 

There may be tension in the arms and shoulders as well. Muscle relaxation throughout the shot and the followthrough is what we need to strive for. A muscle that is relaxed does not effect the shot. A muscle that is tense causes inconsistent form and will effect the shot, sometimes dramatically... and in a different way from shot to shot. This happens because it's impossible to repeat the same amount of tension in a muscle on your command.

You've shortened your draw, but is it short enough? Is it too short? Either of these could be causing right/left misses. You did not give us your height or wingspan but, even if we had those numbers, it really should be evaluated in person by someone who knows what they're looking at.

An inconsistent anchor may also be the culprit. For an index finger triggered/wriststrap release, the most common anchor is with the thumb under the jawbone and the V created by the thumb and trigger firnger tucked behind the L of the jaw. Plaster it there, but remain relaxed and make sure no part of your face or chest is touching the string.

From your post, it doesn't really sound like a tuning issue or an arrow problem, but these may be something you could check also.

You might try this... at full draw, find your anchor, use your back tension to hold as much of the draw weight as you can and try to completely relax your hands and fingers. The only thing touching the release should be the 2nd pad back from the fingertip on the trigger... do not use the tip of your finger on the release. Shorten it up if you have to until you can curl your finger around the trigger. Let the wriststrap hold all of the weight and resist the urge to grasp any part of your release. Your release side forearm should be like a limp noodle... completely relaxed from the elbow to your fingertips. Now, focus on aiming... seeing only the spot. While this is all happening, increase your back tension and slowly squeeze the trigger. Let the shot just happen... staying relaxed through out the followthrough. If you can remain relaxed throughout the entire shot sequence, you'll know it. Your stringhand will pop straight back at the shot.

I may be way off base with all of these suggestions. If not, let me know what you found.
Good luck. Zane


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

jim p said:


> At 20 yards my group is 2" tall and 4" wide.





jim p said:


> I have gone from a 29" draw down to a 27 7/8" draw over the last 2 years.


Stringing your shots vertically (somewhat) might indicate a draw length that is too short.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

I had the same issue until someone told me to line the circle of the peep sight up with the circle of the bow sight. Get those circles to form one circle and you may see a distinct improvement in your group. I sure did.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I just got back in from shooting. I am not stringing the arrows vertical so I guess this means that the DL is not too short. I centered the sight housing in the peep, I made sure that my bow hand was relaxed, and I just stared at the dot while applying BT and waiting for the shot to break. Some would go down the middle and some were 2" to the left.

So I started coming to anchor and getting on target with the sights aligned, then I would slowly relax my index finger and either hold steady pressure with my middle finger or slightly increase pressure with my middle finger and the shots would go down the middle. I did maintain BT and forward push with my bow arm. It just seems that I can't shoot pure BT where you only pull through the shot with your back muscles. I never know when the shot is going to break when I am relaxing my index finger.

This is just a puzzle for me.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

the white shoe is again 100% on that............ we try to help , but nothing,,NOTHING,, is better that seeing you shoot at a level target.. sounds like you might be cheating with that release......


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

My d loop was 5/8" long and my anchor was a little loose on my jaw bone. So I decided to shorten the d loop to 3/8". This gave me a very solid anchor. It also caused my hooker release to be so hot that it would fire sometimes as I released the thumb peg. The good news is that my groups left and right hits have shrunk. I am now getting a round pattern. I know that one shooting session does not mean much and it usually takes me a month to decided if something is working for me. But at least I now have some hope.

I am going to shoot with this set up for a while and then I will start to adjust the hooker for a colder release.

It was nice to see the arrows hitting where the sights were when the shot broke. 

The sight picture was a little jittery so I am getting close to being too short on the draw but I am thinking that the d loop will continue to stretch maybe another 1/16" and this may put it at the perfect place.

Thanks for all the comments and I will post back in a week or so and let you guys know if my groups are staying round.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

jim p said:


> I am going to shoot with this set up for a while and then I will start to adjust the hooker for a colder release.


:thumbs_up


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