# Low draw weight expectations



## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

With my wife's 30# Border TXB limbs on a Hoyt GM riser and with a 30" DL I was able to get a 50m PO with ~300 grain carbon arrows and a three-under hook.

So my suggestion is light arrows and efficient (good quality) limbs. A little bit of facewalking (old guys are often crafty) and use of the shelf and you may still be good to go.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Turning the sight inside and accompanied with light weight arrows - acc are surprisingly light at those poundages - I'd say 60m at least should be okish if you can push a tad further than 24lbs. I've seen people shoot 90m with 28lbs but they had very long anchor to eye distance. I could manage it with a 32lbs club bow with sight turned inside and shooting my own 430 ace's.

If everything else fails, nothing beats a block of wood between the teeth.


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## knotdodger (Oct 2, 2005)

My daughter is pulling 24 lbs on her fingers , 25.5 inch draw.
And can hold dead on at 60 meters. She holds her 3/8 inch sight aperture
half way on the top of the fita target for 70 meters.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm shooting somewhere between 15# and 20# on my Win&Win/16lb Axioms and so far can reach 30 yards quite handily (I have questionable right shoulder). Finding a weak enough shaft that's also long enough is the main problem for me, but I'm not going to invest in more expensive arrows in the hopes that I'll eventually be going up in weight.

But my current arrows are a lot heavier than they could be if I was richer - XX75 1713's with the NIBBS completely filled with solder - for tuning reasons. Still, from what I've seen at 30 yards, 40 will handily reachable, even with my 10-ton XX75's. But I doubt they'd work any further out than that. If I had lighter arrows though I think it wouldn't be that bad to shoot longer distances if I pull the sight in.

I do want to eventually go up in weight, but the shoulder completely dictates that. If I could get to even 25# comfortably at full draw, I'd be a pretty happy camper and ecstatic if I could ever do 30#.

LS


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I can only speak to 40 yards. My first Oly limbs were 24# and I could easily hit 40 yards with plenty of room left on the sight for further ... I just don't know how much further. This was with an average draw length and aluminums.

I also can get heavy woodies out to the 40 with a 26# one-piece (yes, I'm an idiot!). Either 11/32 or 5/16 with 125 grain tips. Don't care for aluminum or carbon on this type of bow, so I have learned to enjoy the arc! Tons of fun. 

Good luck. I guarantee you 40 yards with whatever you choose ... someone else must address the further distances.


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## pencarrow (Oct 3, 2003)

I am shooting 30# long limbs on a 25" riser, 23.5" draw length gives me about 26#. I can reach 70M with sight and barebow using ACE 920s,X-10 1000, and Cartel Triple 1100. Come on down and shoot with me some time.
Cheers
Fritz

PS Senior Games in Cary (Bond Park) the 29th.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

I shot the Fita nationals with Skip Trafford who was recovering from a herniated retina and only shooting 25 with light arrows - he had no problems with the longer ones - keep shooting hope to meet you in person at Redding.

Matt


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Thank you for all the great info and encouragement, it makes me feel that there is still some hope. I was prepared to just quit shooting recurves and go totally to compounds full time. I've shot both for a long time but enjoy the challenge of the recurves much more. I know I can shoot a 40 lb. compound and reach the longer targets with no problem but had severe doubts about the light recurve limbs. Apparently there is light at the end of the tunnel so I am going to order a new recurve set up and see what happens. 

Matt I will be at Redding if the good Lord is willing. I may need a running start to reach the 100 yard targets though.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

In my case, I committed the initial injury about 15 years ago on the compound, shooting way too much with way too much weight. Overuse injuries don't seem to ever heal completely in my body for some reason, so I probably never will be able to return to compound, which was my first infatuation with archery. The recurve has a different draw weight profile in the draw (and is available in light enough "student" weights), and I think that helps avoid aggravating the original insult which came about drawing a compound. 

I'm happy to be shooting again, but am in mourning that I don't think I'll be able to return to the compound at all. So I can sympathize with the loss lol..... 

Plus, the recurve I can shoot with a clicker which completely gets rid of all aiming and target panic issues for me. This was a bit of a plague for me when I shot compound, so I'm probably overall better off. Finally, I can make my own strings for a recurve very easily, so I never have to worry about string problems. I just make a new one and throw the old one away lol...

We should have our own division - injured archers shooting light weight lol. Maybe then arrow manufacturers will start making us arrows long enough with light enough spines lol....

LS


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

unclejane said:


> In my case, I committed the initial injury about 15 years ago on the compound, shooting way too much with way too much weight. Overuse injuries don't seem to ever heal completely in my body for some reason, so I probably never will be able to return to compound, which was my first infatuation with archery. The recurve has a different draw weight profile in the draw (and is available in light enough "student" weights), and I think that helps avoid aggravating the original insult which came about drawing a compound.
> 
> I'm happy to be shooting again, but am in mourning that I don't think I'll be able to return to the compound at all. So I can sympathize with the loss lol.....
> 
> ...


Don't know if you have tried them but the Carbon Impact Super Club comes in 10/20 pound range and is a really good arrow. They only weigh 4.4 GUI I have been using the 20/30 spine with a 30 lb recurve and they fly very well. Lancaster stocks them complete with vanes, nocks, and points for about $68.00. There have been quite a few threads about them on this forum and the 10/20 should work for you. Hope this helps.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Just remember that with extremely low poundages, limb speed will show a lot more than with high poundages. Don't expect to get same distance out of mid range limbs than brand new inno ex's.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Are you going to be shooting the NFAA "Trad" division? Because there should be no problem getting out to 80yds so long as you are comfortable gapping off the shelf for the long ones.

Freestyle might be problematic though.

-Grant


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

zal said:


> Just remember that with extremely low poundages, limb speed will show a lot more than with high poundages. Don't expect to get same distance out of mid range limbs than brand new inno ex's.


Most premium limbs aren't even available at 20# or less, so that won't really make much difference. The W&W sebastian flute premium carbons are available at 20#, but I think that's as high as you can go in quality at those weights... Tho I haven't checked all the different high-end limbs, so there may be others. I doubt it's a lot tho.

But most of the high end stuff starts at 28# or so and up from there...

LS


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## TheOldNewbie (Mar 31, 2012)

Old Sarge said:


> Don't know if you have tried them but the Carbon Impact Super Club comes in 10/20 pound range and is a really good arrow. They only weigh 4.4 GUI I have been using the 20/30 spine with a 30 lb recurve and they fly very well. Lancaster stocks them complete with vanes, nocks, and points for about $68.00. There have been quite a few threads about them on this forum and the 10/20 should work for you. Hope this helps.


My wife shoots the SC 10/20 with her 18# DW bow. The only problem with them might be the length for some people. The full length is 28.5" shaft length. The 15/25 have a 30" shaft length and might be fine left full length for 18# limbs. They are about a .970 spine.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

TheOldNewbie said:


> My wife shoots the SC 10/20 with her 18# DW bow. The only problem with them might be the length for some people. The full length is 28.5" shaft length. The 15/25 have a 30" shaft length and might be fine left full length for 18# limbs. They are about a .970 spine.


actually 28.5 would work fine, my current arrows are 29" and I have lots of room to move the clicker back 1/2"... I may have to try a set of the 10/20's 

Thanks,
LS


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## TheOldNewbie (Mar 31, 2012)

unclejane said:


> actually 28.5 would work fine, my current arrows are 29" and I have lots of room to move the clicker back 1/2"... I may have to try a set of the 10/20's
> 
> Thanks,
> LS


So far the SC arrows have been consistent in length. All of my wife's 10/20 were from the same lot, but my 15/25 have been from 3 different lots and the length, weight and spine were very close. I got 30/40 from 2 different lots and the weight and spine were somewhat different, but it has not mattered at up to 30 yds. If you want the same arrow at a higher quality, you can order the Ultra Fast direct from Carbon Impact, or call them to see if there is a CI dealer near you. The UF 1200 is the same as the SC 10/20 with better QC and pin inserts and pin nocks included. They come in 3 different grades.

http://www.carbonimpact.com/10_ultra_fast_carbon_arrows.php


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ok I'll take a look at those. Though I still have a bunch of 1713 platinums around and 7 NIBBS full of solder (and I can fill the remaining 5 up if needed), which give me a reasonable tune. Still slightly stiff, but with 4" feathers, they don't fly that far off to the left and group ok.

If the shoulder allows, tho, I may eventually go up in weight enough to where I can get a good tune with better arrows, or even the 1713's with unmodified NIBBS and spinwings or something like that.. I'd be happy with that...

LS


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

knotdodger said:


> My daughter is pulling 24 lbs on her fingers , 25.5 inch draw.
> And can hold dead on at 60 meters. She holds her 3/8 inch sight aperture
> half way on the top of the fita target for 70 meters.


Ditto here. Moving my daughter to the CX Medallion XR's (2000 spine) really helped her sight marks. She has some of the fastest arrows on the JOAD line now.

John


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## Chris RL (Oct 30, 2011)

Do get in contact with Sid at Border Bows. 

He'll Skype you from Scotland and you can talk his ear off about those super high efficiency limbs of his. I'm getting maybe a 20% boost in limb efficiency and arrow velocity from his Hex6 BB2's and a shade less than that from his Hex5 limbs. Then he'll build you a pair to the exact spec you agree on.

That, combined with high efficiency slimmer arrows as mentioned here (with McKinney II arrows added to that list), would put you in the ballpark for sure.

Chris


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

grantmac said:


> Are you going to be shooting the NFAA "Trad" division? Because there should be no problem getting out to 80yds so long as you are comfortable gapping off the shelf for the long ones.
> 
> Freestyle might be problematic though.
> 
> -Grant


Yep Trad for me. I just didn't know if limbs that light would even launch an arrow that far...even at a 45degree angle! I've got no problem gapping off the ret, riser, or anything else as long as the arrow will reach the target.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Chris RL said:


> Do get in contact with Sid at Border Bows.
> 
> He'll Skype you from Scotland and you can talk his ear off about those super high efficiency limbs of his. I'm getting maybe a 20% boost in limb efficiency and arrow velocity from his Hex6 BB2's and a shade less than that from his Hex5 limbs. Then he'll build you a pair to the exact spec you agree on.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris. Until I find out if my shoulder can even deal with 24 pounds I think I will go at this with a two phase approach. To start with I think I will go sort of the intermediate level with both riser and limbs. I plan on doing a lot of blank bale shooting in the yard to get my form back in shape and see how my shoulder holds up. If I do that until the first of the year and all is going well I will then give this kit to my wife and get either a Best Moon or Spigarelli Explorer barebow riser and some type of premium limbs. I just don't want to invest a lot to start with until I see how I hold up physically. If it works great but if I find I can't do it I'll just sell this stuff and stick with a compound with 80 percent letoff. I'm really hoping it works out. Right now I am looking at a SF premium forged riser with the SF Elite foam/glass limbs from alt. I'll add some X-spot barebow weights, or a stabilizer and see how it goes. I already have a dz. CI super club arrows to start and they should be light enough to get me out to some reasonable distance.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Unfortunately for NFAA you are limited to internation riser weights only, no stabs or screw-ins.

I am right around 45yds PO with my 30# limbs and a VERY high anchor with SC 20/30 arrows. So unless you are a really short draw I'm better you won't have any issue. The shelf is just above the target at 80.

-Grant


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

grantmac said:


> Unfortunately for NFAA you are limited to internation riser weights only, no stabs or screw-ins.
> 
> I am right around 45yds PO with my 30# limbs and a VERY high anchor with SC 20/30 arrows. So unless you are a really short draw I'm better you won't have any issue. The shelf is just above the target at 80.
> 
> -Grant


I draw 28 so that part should be ok. By the time the summer roles around I will have a barebow riser with the internal weights if the body holds up.


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## hooktonboy (Nov 21, 2007)

unclejane said:


> We should have our own division - injured archers shooting light weight lol. Maybe then arrow manufacturers will start making us arrows long enough with light enough spines lol....
> 
> LS


Ha yes, that would be good...

Truth is, lightweight recurve shooting is all about the arrows. For the past four weeks I've used 20# (yes 20#!) Samick Privilege limbs in my Winact, with 1300 ACCs (at 27" with 70gr points). 60m is not a problem, and I've shot some reasonable scores (the 50/30 "short half" of a FITA on an 80cm face), round the 600 anyway. But don't expect to score so well in the wind as it really does make a difference. Against a headwind , going home is the option of choice.

I wouldn't worry too much about limb quality. With long term injury I've chased my tail on this - (need to get faster limbs etc etc) and all I've done is spent a lot of money pointlessly - the poundage is what it is.

For what it's worth, when choosing Easton arrows I'd be looking at the youth chart down around these weights, they seem to spine better and you'll get much lighter arrows....


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## hooktonboy (Nov 21, 2007)

Just wanted to add... provided you change your expectations...a good shot with low weight limbs is just as satisfying....


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## knotdodger (Oct 2, 2005)

> Ditto here. Moving my daughter to the CX Medallion XR's (2000 spine) really helped her sight marks. She has some of the fastest arrows on the JOAD line now.
> 
> John


 Yes, mine shoots acc's. but have been really looking at the CX arrows lately. Her 1300 spine are just a little to stiff. And they bend!


Rob B.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

hooktonboy said:


> Ha yes, that would be good...
> 
> Truth is, lightweight recurve shooting is all about the arrows. For the past four weeks I've used 20# (yes 20#!) Samick Privilege limbs in my Winact, with 1300 ACCs (at 27" with 70gr points). 60m is not a problem, and I've shot some reasonable scores (the 50/30 "short half" of a FITA on an 80cm face), round the 600 anyway. But don't expect to score so well in the wind as it really does make a difference. Against a headwind , going home is the option of choice.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great advice. Especially about going home if shooting in a headwind! Ha!, that's funny. Your point on limb quality is also well taken I think. There is certainly going to be some measure of performance difference but at 20-24 lbs how much could it be? That's why I have decided to go the intermediate route to start off with in this experiment. If it all works out I can always upgrade but until I find out it my physical condition holds up I don't think it will be worth the extra money. I'm just searching for a way to keep on shooting without the pain.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

hooktonboy said:


> Ha yes, that would be good...
> 
> Truth is, lightweight recurve shooting is all about the arrows. For the past four weeks I've used 20# (yes 20#!) Samick Privilege limbs in my Winact, with 1300 ACCs (at 27" with 70gr points). 60m is not a problem, and I've shot some reasonable scores (the 50/30 "short half" of a FITA on an 80cm face), round the 600 anyway. But don't expect to score so well in the wind as it really does make a difference. Against a headwind , going home is the option of choice.
> 
> ...


Well for me it's not the spine, it's the length. 28" shaft length is the very shortest I can use without it getting dangerous, so I'd have to shoot ACC's or ACG's if I wanted a spine that will probably tune right for me out of the box (looks like I'd need 1300's also and they're available at 28 1/2"). But those are pricey, and there's some evidence from the shoulder that I may be able to go up in weight. So I'm just shooting my 1713's + 10 ton modified NIBBS + huge 4" feathers in the meanwhile, to keep the costs down. I'm still recovering from completing the bow lol. And these fly acceptably well, tuning just a little stiff, and the weight even helps a little bit downrange.


So I'm waiting to see what weight I can go up to before I really settle on a good shaft with a good tune. 

I totally agree on limb quality. My $80 SF woodies outshoot me for days and days already. Maybe if I find I can go up in weight I'll splurge on a set of the SF carbons for durability reasons. But I doubt I'll ever need more quality than that. 

My goal is to be able to shoot field archery again in freestyle limited recurve. I don't care much about being competitive, just competitive with myself, and good enough that they'll let me onto the range and let me shoot at all lol. So I do want to be able to reach distances like 60 yards at least. I think if I can go up to at least #25 I'd be in much better shape. But if I have to stick to my current approx #20, then I'll improve the arrow at that point...
PS: I can also lose the 24 strand string and make up a smaller one. That'll give me a few more FPS also...

LS


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

hooktonboy said:


> Ha yes, that would be good...
> 
> Truth is, lightweight recurve shooting is all about the arrows. For the past four weeks I've used 20# (yes 20#!) Samick Privilege limbs in my Winact, with 1300 ACCs (at 27" with 70gr points). 60m is not a problem, and I've shot some reasonable scores (the 50/30 "short half" of a FITA on an 80cm face), round the 600 anyway. But don't expect to score so well in the wind as it really does make a difference. Against a headwind , going home is the option of choice.
> 
> ...


Not all about the arrows. You can get a big improvement in sight marks by making a lighter string and padding the center. For my daughter at 50 meters, this meant about a centimeter in sight marks at 50 meters.

I agree that the arrow charts don't work at the lighter spines. You'll come out about two spines too heavy and then need a really heavy point to tune -- but you do want the heaviest point that you can get to the target for wind proofing.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

HikerDave said:


> Not all about the arrows. You can get a big improvement in sight marks by making a lighter string and padding the center. For my daughter at 50 meters, this meant about a centimeter in sight marks at 50 meters.
> 
> I agree that the arrow charts don't work at the lighter spines. You'll come out about two spines too heavy and then need a really heavy point to tune -- but you do want the heaviest point that you can get to the target for wind proofing.


I was just fixing to say.. lol... You're absolutely right, IMO... Due to purchasing the wrong size knocks and center servings, my strings are huge 24 strand ropes of 8125G or 452X for the moment. Right now it doesn't matter because my arrows weigh 800lbs each and I only care about hitting the target butt while I verify my injury and work on my form. 

But if I do optimize at this weight, I'll make up an 18 or possibly even a 16 strand 8125G with a minimal length of center serving to shoot those high $ lightweight arrows with.... That really will help out a lot.

LS


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## m013690 (Sep 3, 2011)

unclejane said:


> I was just fixing to say.. lol... You're absolutely right, IMO... Due to purchasing the wrong size knocks and center servings, my strings are huge 24 strand ropes of 8125G or 452X for the moment. Right now it doesn't matter because my arrows weigh 800lbs each and I only care about hitting the target butt while I verify my injury and work on my form.
> 
> But if I do optimize at this weight, I'll make up an 18 or possibly even a 16 strand 8125G with a minimal length of center serving to shoot those high $ lightweight arrows with.... That really will help out a lot.
> 
> LS


You could even go down to 14 strands of 8125g. That's what I'm shooting with 38# on the fingers, and it works just fine.


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## hooktonboy (Nov 21, 2007)

HikerDave said:


> Not all about the arrows. You can get a big improvement in sight marks by making a lighter string and padding the center. For my daughter at 50 meters, this meant about a centimeter in sight marks at 50 meters.
> 
> I agree that the arrow charts don't work at the lighter spines. You'll come out about two spines too heavy and then need a really heavy point to tune -- but you do want the heaviest point that you can get to the target for wind proofing.


Good point HD... I do use a 14 strand FF or similar TS1. I know people who've gone lower on the strand count (10 or even 8) but I didn't like the feel of that so much. What I meant about the arrows, at least in part, is never assume anything - make sure you do the math. For example the gpi for ACEs and ACCs down the 1250/1300 end is exactly the same, the ACCs have a smaller outside diameter, and I don't think there's a huge lot of barrelling on the ACEs (no limit on the cut, anyway).....so paying twice the price may well not gain you anything much.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

m013690 said:


> You could even go down to 14 strands of 8125g. That's what I'm shooting with 38# on the fingers, and it works just fine.


True, I think I'll make one of each lol. The trick for me is the center serving to get the right diameter for the knocks. So I have a little homework to do lol... 

LS


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

You could get by even 12 strands. One way is to make, say, 16 strand string, finish it and cut off extra four strands evenly from different sides, you end up with a solid 12 stand string with padded loops and thicker center serving. Just make sure that you cut the right ones by marking them well before twisting and making center serving.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

zal said:


> You could get by even 12 strands. One way is to make, say, 16 strand string, finish it and cut off extra four strands evenly from different sides, you end up with a solid 12 stand string with padded loops and thicker center serving. Just make sure that you cut the right ones by marking them well before twisting and making center serving.


Actually, I just got through making a 12 strand 8125G and it did help. I just went round the jig 8 times and did the end servings like normal. But I doubled up the center serving - did a short bit of tight end serving (the .018) in the very center and then went over that with the full length center serving using my Halo .021. It's a little ugly when you look at it up close, but the knocks fit almost perfectly. 

I didn't think it would make that much difference with such heavy arrows, but they now tune a little weaker and come off the bow almost just right. My big ropes really must have been heavier enough to have been slowing it down lol....

LS


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

unclejane said:


> Well for me it's not the spine, it's the length. 28" shaft length is the very shortest I can use without it getting dangerous, so I'd have to shoot ACC's or ACG's if I wanted a spine that will probably tune right for me out of the box (looks like I'd need 1300's also and they're available at 28 1/2"). But those are pricey, and there's some evidence from the shoulder that I may be able to go up in weight. So I'm just shooting my 1713's + 10 ton modified NIBBS + huge 4" feathers in the meanwhile, to keep the costs down. I'm still recovering from completing the bow lol. And these fly acceptably well, tuning just a little stiff, and the weight even helps a little bit downrange.
> 
> 
> So I'm waiting to see what weight I can go up to before I really settle on a good shaft with a good tune.
> ...


The 10/20 and 15/20 super club arrows would be long enough for you and a HUGE drop in weight from those alloys. I think the 10/20 is around 1100-1200 spine or something like that, I think TheOldNewbie spine checked a few.

Lots cheaper than the ACC or ACE route!

Also they have nocks which fit thin strings. I'm at 12st with .021 Halo and its nearly perfect.

-Grant


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

grantmac said:


> The 10/20 and 15/20 super club arrows would be long enough for you and a HUGE drop in weight from those alloys. I think the 10/20 is around 1100-1200 spine or something like that, I think TheOldNewbie spine checked a few.
> 
> Lots cheaper than the ACC or ACE route!
> 
> ...


Cool! Guess I better get to work trashing my XX75's lol... I got a dozen of them all made up, wish I'd known about these before I bought all those lol.... But I'll ruin them soon enough.

I've kind of decided to optimize at my current weight, since a suspicious pain appeared in my shoulder day before yesterday and I'm already having to take my first break. The pain here is in a totally different place than the original injury which means I'm not tweaking the old one anymore. But it has my full attention and stopped my going-up-in-weight plans indefinitely. 

So 12 strand strings, 17 or 18# draw weight and super light arrows are where I'm going to settle for now.

Might order two or three of these tho and see how they are...

LS


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## TheOldNewbie (Mar 31, 2012)

grantmac said:


> The 10/20 and 15/20 super club arrows would be long enough for you and a HUGE drop in weight from those alloys. I think the 10/20 is around 1100-1200 spine or something like that, I think TheOldNewbie spine checked a few.
> 
> Lots cheaper than the ACC or ACE route!
> 
> ...


Yes, 10/20 are supposed to be the same as UF 1.200 with less QC. I spine tested my wife's 10/20 at 1.240. They are 28.5" shaft only length. Ultra Fast yellow are $82.54/dozen from CI, including points, pin inserts and pin nocks - everything but vanes. SC 10/20 are $68/dozen from LAS complete with press in nocks.


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