# Burn out... or build a sustainable career



## ron w

well said.
I came back into shooting spots, from a 5 or 6 year break, due to burnout, about 3 years ago. during that break, I had a stroke, that left my bow arm a little instable under the stress, of my bow's holding weight. obviously, some of those little "stabilizer muscles," didn't quite wake back up fully after the therapy of post stroke medicine and rehab.
so be it, ....now I struggle to get out of the high 280's as consistently expected condition. a far cry from what I used to shoot, that's for certain !. my head is still good, I am now retired and I understand the process fully,...probably more fully and clearly, than I ever did (most likely from having much more time to think about it, rather than do it),... so now, I still shoot, but with the full realization of simply, still being able to enjoy shooting, rather than maintaining that spectacle and pressure of, "being one of the better spot shooters in the club". it's actually much more fun to be able to shoot and not get upset about a missed arrow. don't get me wrong, I don't like them, but the alternative, is much more depressing !.


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## JV NC

> My encouragement for you is to find the joy in archery, and to focus your efforts there. I'm personally finding that this approach is much more sustainable.


Hear! Hear!

Amen on having fun.


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## Padgett

At 45 years old I find myself feeling cheated, I have shot a bow all my life and it was always done in my back yard and only because I enjoy shooting. During the first 22 years of my life I specialized in high school sports and all of my efforts in foot ball and basketball and baseball were basically done by the time I was 18 when I graduated from high school and I played college baseball and then it was over. Nobody ever explained to me that those sports are not life sports, they are very short lived sports for almost everyone who plays them. I was spending 2 hours a day kicking footballs and another 2 hours a day hitting baseballs and also shooting baskets with my basketball not knowing that in a few years all that was going to be done forever. 

It really ticks me off that if I had been lucky and anyone in my community or my father would have shown me competitive archery I would have jumped right in at a young age and I could have three decades of hinge shooting and competitions under my belt instead of finding the competitive archery at a ripe age of 40. So yeah I am pizzed that I didn't find it earlier because I don't burn out, I never have. I enjoy competing and I enjoy the tens of thousands of shots that I take, just like I enjoyed the hundreds of thousands of baseballs that I hit as a kid and young adult.

Right now I am going through the weirdest time of my life because we lost a 133,000 dollar salary and I am stuck at home just shooting, it is so funny that just as I get to my highest level ever in any sport and just as I am more motivated to get to the next level I am having to choose to allow my remaining money go to my daughters volleyball and basket ball expenses. I think that I actually get to go to a local shoot tomorrow and blow 30 bucks on gas and entry fees and enjoy the day with my shooting buddies.


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## Lazarus

tmorelli,

What an outstanding post. Thank you for posting it. IIt's great to see others who have "done it's" perspectives. Personally I suffered from a burn out at a fairly young age. In my case I really wish I had not allowed that to happen. But that's all I want to share about it. 

Interestingly, the other day I read an article written by Rick McKinney for Archery Focus magazine in the early 2000's. The thing that was most memorable about the article was Rick saying after he won his first World Championship he experienced the same feeling you described after your first national win. I believe I even remember him saying he was "angry." I'll see if I can find it again and share it with you. I say that to say this.......you probably aren't alone in your feelings. 

Great post! I will crawl back in my hole now.


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## Lazarus

Because the article I referenced above was so poignant I was able to find it once again really quickly. It's in Volume 6, Number 3, 2002 of Archery Focus, called "Winning Is In the Eye of the Beholder." If you can locate a copy it's certainly worth the read. It's surprising how similar it is to the OP of this topic. 

One thing though, he was making a very strong point to high level competitors; give it your best, don't take it too seriously and enjoy yourself. I know Rick pretty well, I don't think he'd say for a minute that he regrets his involvement with archery, even though he has experienced these same emotions at times. 

Again, thanks. :cheers:


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## 4him

Great post Tony.


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## tmorelli

Lazarus said:


> Because the article I referenced above was so poignant I was able to find it once again really quickly. It's in Volume 6, Number 3, 2002 of Archery Focus, called "Winning Is In the Eye of the Beholder." If you can locate a copy it's certainly worth the read. It's surprising how similar it is to the OP of this topic.
> 
> One thing though, he was making a very strong point to high level competitors; give it your best, don't take it too seriously and enjoy yourself. I know Rick pretty well, I don't think he'd say for a minute that he regrets his involvement with archery, even though he has experienced these same emotions at times.
> 
> Again, thanks. :cheers:


Thank you. I'm going to look for it now. 

I also appreciate your last point. I don't want my burnout in the past to prevent my (or your) success now or in the future. I try to think of it from an efficiency standpoint.... To make sure my time spent on archery is fully archery, and efficient.... That I'm doing things that matter now and tomorrow. And equally, the time spent on the other (more) important things are with complete commitment to them at that time. I can find myself very busy, but not productive or really contributing to anything otherwise.


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## aread

Great post Tony!!!

I get Lanny Basham's newsletter. One of them had to do with athletes who won the big one, then went though the same thing Tony & Rick described. His recommendation was to set new goals. 

Humans are goal driven animals. We need new goals and new challenges to be happy. Win the big one? Set your sights on the next big one. 

This is really an appropriate topic for the archers in this forum. Most of us are pushing as hard as we are capable to win Lancaster, Vegas, or Nationals or one of the other big tournaments. Burn out can be a real problem.

But I like Tony's "Healthy level of investment" & "find the joy in archery". Well said

Thanks Tony!!!
Allen


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## mike 66

very nice post..AAA


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## SonnyThomas

Tony, thanks for sharing.....


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## rocket80

Great post.


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## Lazarus

tmorelli said:


> For now, as a "recovering burnout," the question I ask myself regularly is not "What is it going to take to be the best?".... It is "how good can I be, with a healthy level of investment?" So, I carefully walk the line, always evaluating and managing that level of investment and the things more important than archery.
> 
> I honestly don't envy the guys who do this for a living. I'd love to have their talent, but not their responsibilities or pressure to perform because honestly, the closer I get to the top of this game, the less joy I think there is in it. If you are reading this, chances are that archery isn't paying your bills. My encouragement for you is to find the joy in archery, and to focus your efforts there. I'm personally finding that this approach is much more sustainable.


I have thought about this a lot today tmorelli and this is what I bring. Take it for what it's worth, I focus on these two paragraphs because I kind of feel you are looking for answers.

First, I don't make my living with a bow. But I do make it "in" archery. By the same token shooting is a huge part of that. I have a very lofty goal that I shared elsewhere on this forum. I didn't start this post to talk about me though, I'm only saying this stuff to set the stage and share what I've discovered. This hits particularly close to home because I had this same discussion about "priorities" and archery last night. It wasn't a bad discussion, but maybe one of those discussions that acted as a check and balance. 

To address your questions, How can I be the best? and the question on healthy investment;

First, I used to shoot hundreds of arrows a day, every day. I believe we all pass through the stage that we believe that shooting a lot will make us the next big thing in the archery world. Not necessarily. The point that I have come to is this; with all of lifes commitments and distractions you have to (1)find at least the minimum number of shots per day and time spent practicing to stay in tune. And (2,) this one is the most important, you have to learn to above all, *value the shot!* If you value the shot I don't believe you will burn out. But you will get better and better and better, with (on the surface) less effort. It's incredibly difficult to put that kind of value on the shot, but what I've found is that because of this I still crave another shot and don't burn out. With this kind of value on the shot, every shot becomes a mystery ready to be unraveled, and if you're doing it right, you get a reward on every single shot. 

I hope this make sense. As often is the case I feel really inadequate in expressing what I'm trying to say. I don't believe that's uncommon though, it's archery after all, and it's pretty much a philosophical endeavor. 

:cheers:


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## Deputy Archer

Great post. I am about 2 years back into it after a 8 year break. Starting to get serious again but can't totally commit because I also have a young family, wife, 2.5 yr old, 3 my old. 

Like you said gotta keep it enjoyable, even the days you aren't shooting your best, or far from it.


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## EPLC

That was a great post. Funny thing though I have never experienced burnout in archery... so far. I can identify though as I once was a pretty good 10 pin bowler, 200+ sanctioned average, 2 perfect games, 750+ series, etc., It took a lot of effort to maintain, 3 leagues and a lot of practice. One day I just up and quit as I was no longer willing to devote the time needed to maintain. Haven't got there with archery, hope I never will.


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## cbrunson

Lazarus said:


> I have thought about this a lot today tmorelli and this is what I bring. Take it for what it's worth, I focus on these two paragraphs because I kind of feel you are looking for answers.
> 
> First, I don't make my living with a bow. But I do make it "in" archery. By the same token shooting is a huge part of that. I have a very lofty goal that I shared elsewhere on this forum. I didn't start this post to talk about me though, I'm only saying this stuff to set the stage and share what I've discovered. This hits particularly close to home because I had this same discussion about "priorities" and archery last night. It wasn't a bad discussion, but maybe one of those discussions that acted as a check and balance.
> 
> To address your questions, How can I be the best? and the question on healthy investment;
> 
> First, I used to shoot hundreds of arrows a day, every day. I believe we all pass through the stage that we believe that shooting a lot will make us the next big thing in the archery world. Not necessarily. The point that I have come to is this; with all of lifes commitments and distractions you have to (1)find at least the minimum number of shots per day and time spent practicing to stay in tune. And (2,) this one is the most important, you have to learn to above all, *value the shot!* If you value the shot I don't believe you will burn out. But you will get better and better and better, with (on the surface) less effort. It's incredibly difficult to put that kind of value on the shot, but what I've found is that because of this I still crave another shot and don't burn out. With this kind of value on the shot, every shot becomes a mystery ready to be unraveled, and if you're doing it right, you get a reward on every single shot.
> 
> I hope this make sense. As often is the case I feel really inadequate in expressing what I'm trying to say. I don't believe that's uncommon though, it's archery after all, and it's pretty much a philosophical endeavor.
> 
> :cheers:


My wife likes to bring up a somewhat related coversation from time to time. :lol:

Good points though, especially for us "over-the-hill" folks. For me, it has been a hobby from day one, and still is, but that doesn't take away from the desire to be competitive. Just the investment. It would have to pay a helluvua lot better and have significantly less travel time to compare with my day job.


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## glennx

I remember practicing seven days a week,and looking for the eight day to sneak more practice
in. Once you win you loose a little drive.


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## ThunderEagle

Interesting post.

It reminds me of a book I was reading on Darts, yes darts. Over in the UK it has quite the following with pretty big prizes. Anyhow, in the book it talked about what you were willing to sacrifice in order to be the best you could be. In that scenario, it meant missing out on family time to practice, participate in leagues and be at tournaments most weekends, even if your wife/son/daughter/yourself have a birthday that weekend.

The same thing can be said for archery, or any competitive sport. I know I'd like to shoot a league 2 or 3 nights a week instead of 1, but I don't, mainly because my wife would be pretty upset with me. I'm just doing local and state level shoots, but archery is my recharge activity from my day job. Now, both of my kids are in high school right now, and in 3 or 4 years when they are out of the house, I can see myself kicking it up a notch or two, just in time to be able to shoot the senior classes. 

I've got a few archery bucket list items. Lancaster, Indoor Nationals, Vegas, Outdoor Nationals, and Redding.


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## N7709K

I can relate bud, we've talked some bout this if i remember correctly...


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## duckdawg1

I feel the same as you Padgett. I have always hunted and played sports all of my life but my family never had the money to get me to the next level. I actually was into competition skeet shooting while I was 10-12 but couldn't afford to practice and compete. Now turning 40 this year, if I had archery when I was younger, I would have jumped in feet first and who knows where I would be and I would't have had any regrets like I do now. I am a stay at home dad which was for the best interest of our family and appciate every chance I get to shoot and embrace every tourney I shoot because I might not be able to fund the next one. I've been shooting competitive archery for 2 years now and shooting the best scores I ever have and loving every minute of it. Even though I am hard on myself, I know the limits. I'll never be a Levi or Chance but I will have fun trying. 


Padgett said:


> It really ticks me off that if I had been lucky and anyone in my community or my father would have shown me competitive archery I would have jumped right in at a young age and I could have three decades of hinge shooting and competitions under my belt instead of finding the competitive archery at a ripe age of 40. So yeah I am pizzed that I didn't find it earlier because I don't burn out, I never have. I enjoy competing and I enjoy the tens of thousands of shots that I take, just like I enjoyed the hundreds of thousands of baseballs that I hit as a kid and young adult.
> 
> Right now I am going through the weirdest time of my life because we lost a 133,000 dollar salary and I am stuck at home just shooting, it is so funny that just as I get to my highest level ever in any sport and just as I am more motivated to get to the next level I am having to choose to allow my remaining money go to my daughters volleyball and basket ball expenses. I think that I actually get to go to a local shoot tomorrow and blow 30 bucks on gas and entry fees and enjoy the day with my shooting buddies.


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## Supermag1

I took about a 10 year break during high school and college too but I can't say as I regret spending the time doing the usual things (football, wrestling, parties, etc) during that time because that's probably the only time in our lives that we get to do those things. Do I regret completely putting the bow down during this time, yes but mainly because of how long it took me to get back to the level I was at before I put it down.

As for burnout, I'll have a bow in my hand 11 months out of the year (December is the exception since archery deer season stinks after rifle season and I don't shoot spots) but I do have to admit that I tend to burn out every year about the end of summer. Luckily this coincides with the end of 3D season and I can switch over to broadheads and spend all my free time in the woods instead of the range and recharge my batteries for indoor season to start back up in January.


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## ron w

so much of what is called "burn out" has to do with seeing the same few guys winning it all, all the time in the smaller local shoot circles we go to, in our areas. I 've heard guys say, time after time, ...."why even bother tryng to get better,.... (so and so) is going to win anyways, he always does. then the guys just give up and blame it on, so-called "burn out".


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## EPLC

ron w said:


> so much of what is called "burn out" has to do with seeing the same few guys winning it all, all the time in the smaller local shoot circles we go to, in our areas. I 've heard guys say, time after time, ...."why even bother tryng to get better,.... (so and so) is going to win anyways, he always does. then the guys just give up and blame it on, so-called "burn out".


I'm not so sure this mentality has anything to do with burnout. These people are everywhere looking for instant gratification. What they don't, won't or can't see is the person that wins consistently in most cases has also put in a lot of work to get to that level of performance. There are many that don't simply understand this concept and instead may believe that the person was born this way and just can shoot. I can remember thinking along these lines when I was an insecure kid then one day someone said, "someone has to show you!"... What a novel idea that was!


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## unclejane

Whew, thank goodness I've never been good enough to win anything. Just kidding.... In fact, I did win a local field shoot when I first started out - I got first in the fingers division with my old Darton wheel bow. That was in the late 80's and even then fingers was starting to peter out, but the competition was still pretty tough.

I was totally obsessed with archery during my oly recurve days a few years later and shot on the TAMU archery team for a semester when finishing up my bachelor's degree there in the early 90's. Injuries halted my career tho and I never got to a competitive level, recurve or compound.

As for burnout, I've found that competing with myself has been the best way to keep that away. There's an endless supply of fuel there to prompt improvement, I'll just put it that way. Shooting better than I shot the last time is always my #1 goal and that may always be my #1. Enjoying archery and improving is more important to me personally than shooting better than someone else or winning a shoot/tournament, etc. But that's an entirely individual thing, with respect to competitiveness. I admit there may have to be a very different mindset when your goal is to be competitive against others. 

But being competitive with myself has always kept it fresh for me. That goal of shooting better than I did before is basically inexhaustible, even if I ever got better than someone else.

LS


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## X10ring

Great post!! Im 3 years back in after a 4 year layoff. i just shot my highest ever score in vegas! even though my performance was below my expectations the improvement has me satisfied. I believe the layoff made me truly apreciate the sport instead of take it for granted


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## TNMAN

*It is "how good can I be, with a healthy level of investment?" *

T, sounds like you have a real good handle on it. :thumbs_up

My problem (at your age and younger) was that hunting interfered with archery. Five months of bow season (2 states) and 45 days of turkey season that had to be complimented with at least 1-3 weeks of duck season, depending on the ducks arrival. Throw in scouting, doves, and varmint hunting did not leave much time for nfaa pro archery---considering 13 days of vacation at that time. Adding wedding vows into the mix pretty much cut the vacation time in half. Wait, almost forgot about the western md and elk hunts. That left May thru mid-Aug for my pro archery "career", with a couple of hundred dollars constituting a decent win. Luckily, all of this was BK, so it did not yet take 60x to win indoors or 558 outdoors in the southeast. BK is before Kirk for those in the dark on that. 

"---with a healthy level of investment" is a great way to manage it.


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## SonnyThomas

ron w said:


> so much of what is called "burn out" has to do with seeing the same few guys winning it all, all the time in the smaller local shoot circles we go to, in our areas. I 've heard guys say, time after time, ...."why even bother tryng to get better,.... (so and so) is going to win anyways, he always does. then the guys just give up and blame it on, so-called "burn out".





EPLC said:


> I'm not so sure this mentality has anything to do with burnout. These people are everywhere looking for instant gratification. What they don't, won't or can't see is the person that wins consistently in most cases has also put in a lot of work to get to that level of performance. There are many that don't simply understand this concept and instead may believe that the person was born this way and just can shoot. I can remember thinking along these lines when I was an insecure kid then one day someone said, "someone has to show you!"... What a novel idea that was!


I can see ron's point. Not that the "burned out" person is right, but when shoot constantly and get beat constantly it sure puts the damper on things. And then you have those who can't shoot their way out of a wet paper bag shooting every event and knowing they aren't going to place or win.

Now, I would ask Tony; What if you had won $25,000 bucks? Would you still ask yourself was it worth it? What if you had went on to place or win the rest of the year?

Change over in the Pro ranks aside, look at the people/scores of the last few years of ASA ProAms. Oodles of Pros finishing below 20th place all the time, every time. Whoops..maybe. I was to understand there is some unseen pay out to lower rung Pros (incentive to keep competing?).


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## rn3

TNMAN said:


> *It is "how good can I be, with a healthy level of investment?" *
> 
> T, sounds like you have a real good handle on it. :thumbs_up
> 
> My problem (at your age and younger) was that hunting interfered with archery. Five months of bow season (2 states) and 45 days of turkey season that had to be complimented with at least 1-3 weeks of duck season, depending on the ducks arrival. Throw in scouting, doves, and varmint hunting did not leave much time for nfaa pro archery---considering 13 days of vacation at that time. Adding wedding vows into the mix pretty much cut the vacation time in half. Wait, almost forgot about the western md and elk hunts. That left May thru mid-Aug for my pro archery "career", with a couple of hundred dollars constituting a decent win. Luckily, all of this was BK, so it did not yet take 60x to win indoors or 558 outdoors in the southeast. BK is before Kirk for those in the dark on that.
> 
> "---with a healthy level of investment" is a great way to manage it.


Yes, I pretty much had the same problem, then you had to throw in one of the best archers ever (DP) in my state and sectional , so it seems I was always shooting for 2nd place.


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## TNMAN

rn3 said:


> Yes, I pretty much had the same problem, then you had to throw in one of the best archers ever (DP) in my state and sectional , so it seems I was always shooting for 2nd place.


Hey, I'm jealous. Shooting against Dean should have been a blast. None of us were in it for money; and archery fame is fleeting---even for someone as good as DP.

Edit: I'm still impressed with the OP---he's got this stuff figured right.


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## rn3

TNMAN said:


> Hey, I'm jealous. Shooting against Dean should have been a blast. None of us were in it for money; and archery fame is fleeting---even for someone as good as DP.
> 
> Edit: I'm still impressed with the OP---he's got this stuff figured right.


Yes it was fun and educational. The OP does have it figured out.


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## tmorelli

aread said:


> Great post Tony!!!
> 
> I get Lanny Basham's newsletter. One of them had to do with athletes who won the big one, then went though the same thing Tony & Rick described. His recommendation was to set new goals.
> 
> Humans are goal driven animals. We need new goals and new challenges to be happy. Win the big one? Set your sights on the next big one.
> 
> This is really an appropriate topic for the archers in this forum. Most of us are pushing as hard as we are capable to win Lancaster, Vegas, or Nationals or one of the other big tournaments. Burn out can be a real problem.
> 
> But I like Tony's "Healthy level of investment" & "find the joy in archery". Well said
> 
> Thanks Tony!!!
> Allen


Looking back, I struggled with setting the new goal having just achieved a similar one and being disappointed with it. Maybe this is unique to me, maybe it isn't. And maybe I still do to a degree. But, I think first place being the carrot is problematic. The truth is that we don't control the outcome.... only ourselves. And when we can't find success in winning against ourselves, because someone played the game better that weekend, we lose.



Lazarus said:


> ....I kind of feel you are looking for answers....
> 
> To address your questions, How can I be the best? and the question on healthy investment;
> 
> ....you have to learn to above all, *value the shot!* If you value the shot I don't believe you will burn out. But you will get better and better and better, with (on the surface) less effort. It's incredibly difficult to put that kind of value on the shot, but what I've found is that because of this I still crave another shot and don't burn out. With this kind of value on the shot, every shot becomes a mystery ready to be unraveled, and if you're doing it right, you get a reward on every single shot.


I don't know that I started this post looking for answers.... but I am probably guilty of trying to settle things in my mind and that coming out in my post. That would be completely in character for me. 

But, you've got my curiosity up. Can you expand more on "valuing the shot" and what that phrase means to you? There is obviously more than the surface value for you.



ron w said:


> so much of what is called "burn out" has to do with seeing the same few guys winning it all, all the time in the smaller local shoot circles we go to, in our areas. I 've heard guys say, time after time, ...."why even bother tryng to get better,.... (so and so) is going to win anyways, he always does. then the guys just give up and blame it on, so-called "burn out".


That definitely isn't what I have in mind here. But, I see what you are describing on a regular basis. I have many good friends in archery, great friendships with fierce competitors.... and plenty of people who are mad if I just show up. They fit your description.



X10ring said:


> Great post!! Im 3 years back in after a 4 year layoff. i just shot my highest ever score in vegas! even though my performance was below my expectations the improvement has me satisfied. I believe the layoff made me truly apreciate the sport instead of take it for granted


Good point. I don't know if absence made the heart grow fonder for me... but I do know the time away allowed me to grow up. That alone has made all the difference on my second journey with competitive archery.



SonnyThomas said:


> I can see ron's point. Not that the "burned out" person is right, but when shoot constantly and get beat constantly it sure puts the damper on things. And then you have those who can't shoot their way out of a wet paper bag shooting every event and knowing they aren't going to place or win.
> 
> Now, I would ask Tony; What if you had won $25,000 bucks? Would you still ask yourself was it worth it? What if you had went on to place or win the rest of the year?
> 
> Change over in the Pro ranks aside, look at the people/scores of the last few years of ASA ProAms. Oodles of Pros finishing below 20th place all the time, every time. Whoops..maybe. I was to understand there is some unseen pay out to lower rung Pros (incentive to keep competing?).


Lots of things going on there. At one time, I thought I wanted to make my living shooting my bow. I'm sure glad that my life didn't go that direction. My belief is that it would become a "job" or that I would make it a job at least.

I can't say if monetary value would've changed my feelings at that time. I can say that I don't find it as a motivation now. My idea of success now includes winning enough that doing what I enjoy doesn't mean making financial sacrifices to do what I enjoy.

The Pro class is as diverse in contractual terms as it is in personalities. There are people shooting pro because they can afford to and choose to. There are some who have small $ contracts with stipends and there are a select few with salaries, stipends, additional contigencies, etc. Those who don't finish near the top with some regularity are more likely in the first group.



TNMAN said:


> Hey, I'm jealous. Shooting against Dean should have been a blast. None of us were in it for money; and archery fame is fleeting---even for someone as good as DP.
> 
> Edit: I'm still impressed with the OP---he's got this stuff figured right.


To derail the thread, my current press and hooter shooter were bought from DP as he prepared to retire a couple years ago. I spent the better part of the day with him and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm a "people watcher" and I got to pick his brain and get good glimpses at his mental game and outlook. It was a great experience for me and I would've loved to have met him sooner.

Thanks for the vote of confidence BTW... I've got lots of stuff to figure out still.


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## SonnyThomas

Reading you last, you seem to be on your way quite well.... Wish you the best...


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## golfer1

To the OP and others I suggest this: As we go thru life we make many decisions and there are conditions that cause or allow us to make changes or deviations from our original desires, first car, college, girl friend, military, sports, marriage, children etc. Some make bad decisions; drugs, alcohol, don't need to continue here.
Lets say you want to become a champion archer and during your early life you become very, very good. Then along come those other opportunities; car, girls, marriage, children etc. Each of these things create deviations in our life we must contend with. We can either omit to doing them well or do them poorly.
Here is the challenge to you sir: You have a wife and two children, is it time for you to be a good archer for your family and wife or for yourself? You may have put yourself behind when you committed to your largest life's commitments, your wife and children. Your challenge now sir is to win with them first, then perhaps archery. Or, you may decide to share it with your sons and let them take you along for the best ride in your life while they become champion archers. A tough decision in front of you, make the wrong one and you will be ruined for life, make the right one and you will be fixed for life.


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## tmorelli

I don't think there is any question that "winning" with my family and life takes priority over my archery pursuits. I hope I didn't communicate otherwise.... If anything my intent was to encourage people NOT to put our hobbies (regardless of our passion for them) before things of more lasting importance.


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## rn3

tmorelli said:


> I don't think there is any question that "winning" with my family and life takes priority over my archery pursuits. I hope I didn't communicate otherwise.... If anything my intent was to encourage people NOT to put our hobbies (regardless of our passion for them) before things of more lasting importance.


How true.


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## dcreighton

Just wanted to say that this thread, the whole of it, was very refreshing and a good read.


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## ron w

I surely wasn't saying those that have that "same guys winning all the time " attitude are right. I was one of those guys, I shot as many shoots as I could and kept right in there, working to get better and going to the shoots and getting beat.....that's just the way it works,...someone has to win and someone has to loose, is all I was saying. if you can't handle that, there's not much reason to go to the tournaments. I don't think I ever went to a tournament with the expectation that I was going to win. I went with the expectation to do as good as I could, and if by chance , it's good enough, i'll maybe place or win. either way, i'm going to the tournament because I want to compete. 
think about all the controversy lately about our kids getting ribbons for competing, they are teaching kids to have that attitude.


----------



## Garceau

The real fact is T-Mo switched to open A to hang with me!


----------



## tmorelli

ron w said:


> I surely wasn't saying those that have that "same guys winning all the time " attitude are right. I was one of those guys, I shot as many shoots as I could and kept right in there, working to get better and going to the shoots and getting beat.....that's just the way it works,...someone has to win and someone has to loose, is all I was saying. if you can't handle that, there's not much reason to go to the tournaments. I don't think I ever went to a tournament with the expectation that I was going to win. I went with the expectation to do as good as I could, and if by chance , it's good enough, i'll maybe place or win. either way, i'm going to the tournament because I want to compete.
> think about all the controversy lately about our kids getting ribbons for competing, they are teaching kids to have that attitude.


I wasn't disagreeing and still don't.



Garceau said:


> The real fact is T-Mo switched to open A to hang with me!


All part of my grand-master-plan to have fun with this.


----------



## Lazarus

tmorelli said:


> I don't know that I started this post looking for answers.... but I am probably guilty of trying to settle things in my mind and that coming out in my post. That would be completely in character for me.
> 
> But, you've got my curiosity up. Can you expand more on "valuing the shot" and what that phrase means to you? There is obviously more than the surface value for you.


Not a problem, thank you for asking. 

I don't have a problem with "burn out" anymore, maybe because I actually don't shoot as much as I'd like. With other priorities etc I really struggle to get fifty shots a day in. In any competitive venue I don't think that's near enough shots to keep yourself in top form. Probably barely half of what you need to shoot. However, what I mean by "valuing the shot" is that I don't ever shoot a single arrow that doesn't have purpose. I am working very specifically on something with ever, single, shot. I try to shoot every shot in practice like it's the only shot I get to shoot. Or, better said, I shoot every shot like it's the last shot for a shoot off win. Value the shot. 

Aside from this approach being somewhat of a minimalist approach (toward practice) it has some other benefits. Most notably it creates a mindset that you are to shoot one arrow (50) times instead of shooting 50 arrows. It's similar to the "shoot one arrow then pull it" approach that a lot of people use to boost their confidence, however this technique doesn't allow your mind to loaf because I'll shoot usually no less than 8-10 arrows in an end. When I practice at long distance I might shoot as many as 20 arrows in an end. I do this to condition my mind to never allow it to loaf for even one arrow, even though I'm shooting every single arrow like it's the only one I get to shoot.

Here's an example, I shot about 30 shots this morning. Things were really flowing, I mean they were firing off without a thought, silk. (I was focusing on a new way to flatten my release hand out before I got to anchor, and it works to perfection.) I would have probably shot another 50-60 shots but I made myself quit. I wanted to quit while I was craving the shot. And I am. I absolutely can't wait to get back to the bale. I know there is a perfect shot inside me right now and I just can't wait to go let it loose. 

That kind of took us off the track of your original post. I just wanted to explain what I meant by "value the shot." By having that mindset it keeps me from getting bored or burned out. Hope that clears it up a bit.


----------



## ron w

Tmorelli, I know what you mean. I've seen the guys that get mad, too. it's like, " what the heck do they have to be mad about....is the guy supposed to stay away from the tournament, because he has a good chance of winning ?,.....I though that's why you went to the shoots....to try and win ! ".
like I said, someone has to win and someone has to loose, that's what "contests", are all about.
very true about when you're shooting good and realize it...... you crave that next shot. Lanny Basham, had something to say about that, in his book,...if recall. something about finishing up, on a high note, rather than a low note. I know when I was shooting well, better than I do now-a-days, anyway,... I read his book several times cover to cover and I think that idea was the main thing I took away from it. we all have high and low cycles during a practice session. when I was in a slump cycle during practice, I would shoot until I climbed out of the slump, and then quit that practice session. it helps your psyche immensely, to walk away from practice with that good feeling of satisfaction in your shooting as good as you can. finishing a session on one of those "good cycles" has much more influencing and lasting "imprint" on your execution.


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## Kstigall

I smiled as I read your post.

This has been a very difficult indoor season for me. Yesterday I felt like slamming my bow onto the concrete floor and walking out. I thought I had figured out how to enjoy an entire season of indoor archery without feeling "burned out". But I was wwrroonngg....... It's been the same pattern for many years. I start the year making progress and build to a level of shooting that could quite reasonably win national tournaments. I then start slowly back sliding to the point that when indoor nationals arrives I am shooting many X's lower than my average 5 weeks earlier.

I've had the same thing happening in 3D. By the time the last third of the season arrives I'm scoring a good bit lower. 

It's ALL in my head AND I know it. A person doesn't simply go from shooting 60 X games two or three times a week to shooting 56-57 X games 7 or 8 years in a row by chance. I'm a quite good at "getting there" and very terrible at "staying there"! I know that I could enjoy archery more and consequently score better if I simply could stop from thinking about it so much. 

I was close to slamming a perfectly good bow on to a concrete floor yesterday.........


----------



## Mahly

While I'm not there yet with archery, I understand the feeling.
I used to race motorcycles. And I enjoyed it for the most part. Almost always having 2nd or 3rd rate gear due to the crazy costs and endless advancement.
Then one year, I decided I would get a bike somewhat competitive, and push for championships. I had never won a race, but I figured on something competitive, I could be there.
Got a bike, modified the crap out of it, and first race out, I won my first race (in fact, I would have taken 3rd in the next class up as well).
Suddenly this is getting to be crazy good fun again.
As the season went on, I won lots of races...but there were tracks (Road America) I was doomed at (My bike had handling and brakes...not horsepower).
took a couple 5ths there, but beat the same guys by 1/4 track distance next race at a tight track.
This went on and on. At the very least, I would be 2nd or 3rd...but usually won.
Then something happened. I don't know how or why, but 2nd place wasn't enough. I would get MAD if I took 2nd place (When not long before I had never even won a single race). I remember even stating at one track that I would be MAD (not the word I used, but you get the idea) if I didn't win.
As luck would have it, I did win...but there was someone closing on me in the middle of the race...near the end I pulled away again.
In the end, I won 2 regional championships, and had a place at the "race of Champions", but that was at Daytona, I live in WI, and Daytona was another horsepower track. I couldn't go to be an also ran, I could only go if I could win. I had had enough. Suddenly it was too stressful WINNING instead of RACING.
I retired that year, and had the time of my life the next 5 years teaching a racing school.

In archery, as in racing, there is "always" someone better. Winning comes and goes. If you look hard enough, you'll find those that will beat you.
You can NOT let winning be the only reward.
I learned a valuable lesson that season. If you let winning be the only thing, what you loved will become something you may hate.
ENJOY the shooting! Enjoy improving! Enjoy the wins as icing on the cake! But remember the cake is more important.
For YEARS, I used to shoot archery and never kept score. Never count my rounds so I couldn't just say I shot a 300. I would just be happy shooting.
I have since stepped up my game, and I'm scoring and working on improving. I DO check myself each time a single arrow ticks me off, and I don't let it get to me. I plan on steadily improving, and yes I plan on winning. But now I know NOT to let the wins be the gauge of my happiness.

Laz said to "value the shot"... I think that's right on the money. Now I shoot to enjoy each shot. When everything is perfect, and that arrow goes right in the middle of the middle, enjoy it. When something goes wrong, or you drop a point, look forward to the NEXT arrow. Your at a level that you will have a LOT more enjoyment than frustration doing that.

Some say it's hard work to put in the amount of practice needed. I disagree (NOT taking away from those who do put in the hours and arrows) I think it's a JOY to practice, and I do it whenever I can (which at the moment isn't nearly enough). Don't make it work, remember WHY you started shooting target. It's just plain fun. 

Value the shot, and enjoy every arrow you can.


----------



## Labs

Kstigall said:


> I smiled as I read your post.
> 
> This has been a very difficult indoor season for me. Yesterday I felt like slamming my bow onto the concrete floor and walking out. I thought I had figured out how to enjoy an entire season of indoor archery without feeling "burned out". But I was wwrroonngg....... It's been the same pattern for many years. I start the year making progress and build to a level of shooting that could quite reasonably win national tournaments. I then start slowly back sliding to the point that when indoor nationals arrives I am shooting many X's lower than my average 5 weeks earlier.
> 
> I've had the same thing happening in 3D. By the time the last third of the season arrives I'm scoring a good bit lower.
> 
> It's ALL in my head AND I know it. A person doesn't simply go from shooting 60 X games two or three times a week to shooting 56-57 X games 7 or 8 years in a row by chance. I'm a quite good at "getting there" and very terrible at "staying there"! I know that I could enjoy archery more and consequently score better if I simply could stop from thinking about it so much.
> 
> I was close to slamming a perfectly good bow on to a concrete floor yesterday.........



I did a double take as I thought I may have posted this since I am seeing the same pattern...please share if you have found a way to work yourself out of this pattern. I know it's in my head and I think I've researched and read all the articles available. On paper it makes sense and the path out seems easy enough...the problem is applying what I've learned and read consistently. I seem to be able to do it on a few targets but its regress for a few targets, on a few, off a few until I too feel like show my bow the concrete floor. 

Thanks..Labs


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## Lazarus

Labs said:


> I did a double take as I thought I may have posted this since I am seeing the same pattern...please share if you have found a way to work yourself out of this pattern. I know it's in my head and I think I've researched and read all the articles available. On paper it makes sense and the path out seems easy enough...the problem is applying what I've learned and read consistently. I seem to be able to do it on a few targets but its regress for a few targets, on a few, off a few until I too feel like show my bow the concrete floor.
> 
> Thanks..Labs


Going back to what kstigall wrote, I will ask you this question Labs; What is your goal? Is it to be ready for Indoor Nationals? Or is it to shoot 60x 300 rounds two or three nights a week in a local league? If your answer is the latter you're right on track. But if your goal is to be ready for Indoor Nationals you need to be focused on that instead of shooting two or three 60x 300 rounds a week. If your goal is the Indoor Nationals you need to peak when it matters. Not when you can be the hero at the local Mom and Pop archery shop league. 

Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Labs

Lazarus said:


> Going back to what kstigall wrote, I will ask you this question Labs; What is your goal? Is it to be ready for Indoor Nationals? Or is it to shoot 60x 300 rounds two or three nights a week in a local league? If your answer is the latter you're right on track. But if your goal is to be ready for Indoor Nationals you need to be focused on that instead of shooting two or three 60x 300 rounds a week. If your goal is the Indoor Nationals you need to peak when it matters. Not when you can be the hero at the local Mom and Pop archery shop league.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


Lazarus,
Makes perfect sense...my goal is work my way up the ranks of ASA by "winning out" as per the rules ASA has set. I am relatively new to competitive archery but I am in my mid 40's. Been involved in athletics my entire life so I'm loving the competitive aspect of this sport. No desire to be a "Pro" class archer but no reason I can't work my way up through Open C to K45 to K50 or Senior Known. I feel I have to get over this "slump" I have recently found myself in and I need to learn how to avoid it in the future. I do get involved in local leagues and the weekend shoots as a way to add some pressure to the game and it is a very good way to practice.


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## krakin

A lot of this rings true with me. Was ranked in the single figures in world archery and soon after a world champs I had kids and it all stopped for many years. Now when the kids are a bit older we are shooting as a family. My competitive nature and drive to be the best I can be has me practising lots and trying to get back up there again - but trying to do so with a bit of balance.

I think life is a lot like your target bow - you need some weight out front to keep you focussed on your goals, but, like family, 3X more out back supporting you and giving you balance in that quest.


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## aread

Mahly said:


> ... I don't know how or why, but 2nd place wasn't enough.* I would get MAD if I took 2nd place* (When not long before I had never even won a single race). I remember even stating at one track that I would be MAD (not the word I used, but you get the idea) if I didn't win....


Is that what it takes to be a consistent champion? I'm not picking on Mahly, but asking a question of the guys who have been there.

I think it was one of the track stars who said that winners are afraid of losing. Do we have to work ourselves up to anger if someone is close to beating us? Some of the top pro's seem to be very upset if they are kicked out of the shoot off. The archery pro's seem to cover it very well, but you know that while they are congratulating each other, they are really MAD inside (not the right word, but I don't want to get banned either  ).

This is not exactly the healthy level of investment that Tony wrote about. 

What does it take to win at the top level?

Allen


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## Ned250

krakin said:


> I think life is a lot like your target bow - you need some weight out front to keep you focussed on your goals, but, like family, 3X more out back supporting you and giving you balance in that quest.


Sig worthy right there.


----------



## Mahly

aread said:


> Is that what it takes to be a consistent champion? I'm not picking on Mahly, but asking a question of the guys who have been there.
> 
> I think it was one of the track stars who said that winners are afraid of losing. Do we have to work ourselves up to anger if someone is close to beating us? Some of the top pro's seem to be very upset if they are kicked out of the shoot off. The archery pro's seem to cover it very well, but you know that while they are congratulating each other, they are really MAD inside (not the right word, but I don't want to get banned either  ).
> 
> This is not exactly the healthy level of investment that Tony wrote about.
> 
> What does it take to win at the top level?
> 
> Allen


I don't think that's what it takes to win, but that's what can happen if you make winning the only reward.


----------



## Supermag1

aread said:


> Is that what it takes to be a consistent champion? I'm not picking on Mahly, but asking a question of the guys who have been there.
> 
> I think it was one of the track stars who said that winners are afraid of losing. Do we have to work ourselves up to anger if someone is close to beating us? Some of the top pro's seem to be very upset if they are kicked out of the shoot off. The archery pro's seem to cover it very well, but you know that while they are congratulating each other, they are really MAD inside (not the right word, but I don't want to get banned either  ).
> 
> This is not exactly the healthy level of investment that Tony wrote about.
> 
> What does it take to win at the top level?
> 
> Allen


See that's the problem, setting goals that are based on the performance of others. You can't control how other people perform so you don't have control over the achievement of your goals. If you look for it, you'll often see mention of a pro saying it will take a 40 up to win a 3d event or that a shoot off will last 6 ends of x=10 scoring or whatever. They aren't doing this to set a betting line or guess who will win, they're basically setting their goals.


----------



## tmorelli

Lazarus said:


> Not a problem, thank you for asking.
> 
> I don't have a problem with "burn out" anymore, maybe because I actually don't shoot as much as I'd like. With other priorities etc I really struggle to get fifty shots a day in. In any competitive venue I don't think that's near enough shots to keep yourself in top form. Probably barely half of what you need to shoot. However, what I mean by "valuing the shot" is that I don't ever shoot a single arrow that doesn't have purpose. I am working very specifically on something with ever, single, shot. I try to shoot every shot in practice like it's the only shot I get to shoot. Or, better said, I shoot every shot like it's the last shot for a shoot off win. Value the shot.
> 
> Aside from this approach being somewhat of a minimalist approach (toward practice) it has some other benefits. Most notably it creates a mindset that you are to shoot one arrow (50) times instead of shooting 50 arrows. It's similar to the "shoot one arrow then pull it" approach that a lot of people use to boost their confidence, however this technique doesn't allow your mind to loaf because I'll shoot usually no less than 8-10 arrows in an end. When I practice at long distance I might shoot as many as 20 arrows in an end. I do this to condition my mind to never allow it to loaf for even one arrow, even though I'm shooting every single arrow like it's the only one I get to shoot.
> 
> Here's an example, I shot about 30 shots this morning. Things were really flowing, I mean they were firing off without a thought, silk. (I was focusing on a new way to flatten my release hand out before I got to anchor, and it works to perfection.) I would have probably shot another 50-60 shots but I made myself quit. I wanted to quit while I was craving the shot. And I am. I absolutely can't wait to get back to the bale. I know there is a perfect shot inside me right now and I just can't wait to go let it loose.
> 
> That kind of took us off the track of your original post. I just wanted to explain what I meant by "value the shot." By having that mindset it keeps me from getting bored or burned out. Hope that clears it up a bit.


Thanks for adding to your thoughts here. I must admit, it is concept I struggle with... I might say "valuing the shot" is the biggest mental struggle for me when I punch paper. It is my MO to shoot one shot that I don't like, still hit an X...but my mind goes to the "feel" of the shot (becomes concious) and that is never good. Sometimes I think I "value the shot" too much...or at the wrong times. I've shot some of my best scores....when my shot wasn't running the way I wanted. I didn't walk away from those rounds feeling or celebrating success of a good score....I walked away focused on the work I needed to do. This is also the reason I don't "blank bale" outside of "conditioning".... my shot becomes concious.... and nothing good happens when I'm running my shot consciously. Turning that on/off is a challenge and to get in the zone, to post my best scores.... it has got to be out of my head.

I don't really equate "top form" maintenance to number of arrows...and maybe that is the 3d shooter/hunter roots showing. My game is to make one excellent shot on cold muscles, not more often than once every 10-15 minutes or so. When I'm not "conditioning" my favorite practice is often to take 3 arrows, step outside, shoot those 3, pull them and go back in.... it is more "verification" (of my shot and my equipment) than it is "practice". I may do that 3-4 times/day at varying distances/lighting/terrain.



aread said:


> Is that what it takes to be a consistent champion? I'm not picking on Mahly, but asking a question of the guys who have been there.
> 
> I think it was one of the track stars who said that winners are afraid of losing. Do we have to work ourselves up to anger if someone is close to beating us? Some of the top pro's seem to be very upset if they are kicked out of the shoot off. The archery pro's seem to cover it very well, but you know that while they are congratulating each other, they are really MAD inside (not the right word, but I don't want to get banned either  ).
> 
> This is not exactly the healthy level of investment that Tony wrote about.
> 
> What does it take to win at the top level?
> 
> Allen


"afraid of losing".... that sits wrong with me. I hope that wasn't a positive example in a sports psychology book. It reminds me of my coach's words.... Freedom to Fail.... the opposite of fear of failure. Fear of failure is the main source of mental tension... we know mental tension becomes physical tension... and we know what misplaced physical tension does to archers (and other athletes). 

Anger in archery is what drove me to make a change last year. Daniel Boone started a thread congratulating me on a major comeback for a win. The truth is, I learned a lot about myself...or was at least forced to face some things. That weekend, I showed up and the first day just went horribly.... I was in dead last place and I was mad. I'd completely let myself down....and I stayed mad. Like really, uncharacteristically mad. It was my son's birthday and they had traveled with me to the tournament. We had a birthday party in the hotel pool for him.... No matter how I tried, I could not turn it off. I was bruised. I went out the next day and shot with a chip on my shoulder to say the least. Internally, I was mad the entire round. I went from last to first. And the feeling was that same feeling you might've gotten after you punch someone that really needed it. But my competitors didn't need it. I did. Now, a sports psych might say that the utter failure on the first day meant I had nothing to lose on the second day.... maybe they're right. Maybe it gave me "freedom to fail"... it felt like I had everything to lose though.

I soaked on that for a long time. It was the second round I'd shot like that... I realized that I was becoming motivated by negative energy. I was shooting "flat" if I wasn't mad. I had no drive, no passion... if I wasn't mad.

Does any of this sound healthy to you? It wasn't and when I realized it, I realized why... I wasn't inline with my goals or on the path towards them. I realigned and I found the simple joy again.


----------



## Lazarus

tmorelli said:


> Does any of this sound healthy to you?


Healthy? Some shrink may say no. However, I think it's very common for a competitive archer to have this happen occasionally. I know I have experienced almost that exact scenario in a one day shoot back when I shot some rubber deer. 

Here's my take. Excellent archers are typically a pretty reflective lot, maybe "aloof" to the process as a whole would be a better word to describe it. (All the while having to remain very attentive to detail.) It's how you become successful, you can't really care where the shot lands, you just have to focus on you (the shooters) part. There is a fine line between that aloofness and (mental) laziness I believe. When your mentality slips into that state of laziness you will make some errors, then, being a top level archer rather than making an excuse like; "well, my string stretched in the sun," or some BS excuse you point the finger at yourself knowing the only thing to blame is yourself. At that point your survival mechanism kicks in (kind of like stepping on a dogs tail, he's going to reflexively bite you,) and you become angry with yourself which vaults you out of your laziness and back into your usual form. Maybe even elevating you above your usual form. 

I know........this is all that mental voodoo stuff that nobody believes in right? :teeth: Just my silly opinion. :cheers:


----------



## Fdale's Finest

for later


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## Garceau

Here ya go Tony - 

https://www.ted.com/talks/john_wooden_on_the_difference_between_winning_and_success


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## iceman14

Glad I swung by here and read this. Thank you.


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## tmorelli

Garceau said:


> Here ya go Tony -
> 
> https://www.ted.com/talks/john_wooden_on_the_difference_between_winning_and_success


I just around to sitting in a WiFi connection to watch that. 

That's good stuff. Thanks, I'm going to browse through some others.


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## memosteve

EPLC said:


> That was a great post. Funny thing though I have never experienced burnout in archery... so far. I can identify though as I once was a pretty good 10 pin bowler, 200+ sanctioned average, 2 perfect games, 750+ series, etc., It took a lot of effort to maintain, 3 leagues and a lot of practice. One day I just up and quit as I was no longer willing to devote the time needed to maintain. Haven't got there with archery, hope I never will.


Sounds exactly like me! Used to love bowling...200+ average, 3 leagues per week, practice every day with a coach, tons of money into equipment, even drilled my own balls, tournaments, blah blah...one day I realized I hadn't really just enjoyed bowling for a long time (I couldn't just go out and have "fun" bowling with friends/family...was always "training/serious"), and it wasn't paying any bills...I literally just walked away and haven't even looked at my equipment/balls since that day! I also did this with competitive golf, and for the same reasons, although I can now go out and just golf for fun and really enjoy it for the first time since being a kid!

I'm hoping this doesn't happen with archery, especially since I'm shifting careers into the industry!


----------



## Rick!

> ...and it wasn't paying any bills...I literally just walked away and haven't even looked at my equipment/balls since that day! I also did this with competitive golf, and for the same reasons, although I can now go out and just golf for fun and really enjoy it for the first time since being a kid!
> 
> I'm hoping this doesn't happen with archery, especially since I'm shifting careers into the industry!


I have turned hobbies/passions into vocations. The first one with cars lasted about a dozen years. I walked away to go back to school. Now, I'll help my brother with his alcohol Super Pro and I can walk away from it anytime.
My second one was snowmobiles. It lasted a bit over 17 years of which the last few extinguished the "flame." A whole engineering team full of very passionate people will test your commitment level at every juncture. My buddy said the "hatin'" will go away in about 5 years. So far he's right.

The archery folk take this passion thing to a new level. Figure out how to adjust your passion with regard to your environment and you'll have fun while making a living...


----------



## Kstigall

I found something that helped me enjoy archery and relax this past weekend.

Four of us drove 10 hours to the ASA Newberry shoot this past weekend. I arrived at approximately 1:30 Friday afternoon. 

I had not shot an arrow at a foam target this year. I had never shot this bow with a sight tape. I had only used this bow for indoor spot shooting. I went to work getting marks and finding a sight tape. Headed to the practice range and shot foam animals, the first of the year, for a couple of hours...... Had bow "issues" during Saturdays round but managed to finish within striking distance of the leaders (10th place, 6 points behind). Tweaked the bow until almost dark Saturday evening. Sunday morning I hustled to the practice range and my arrows were pounding spot on. Literally trotted to my stake......Ended up shooting 12 up Sunday to finish 8 up on the second place guy. Thoroughly enjoyed the weekend.

It felt real nice to be shooting without trying to put 60 size 27 shafts into the exact same hole. It was nice to get some sun while shooting without even a thought of "screwing up". Not at any time was I concerned about anything except when I stepped to the stake. Sooooooo, between now and indoor nationals I'm going to make a point of not thinking about Louisville but rather I'm only going to be concerned about what I'm doing today or rather right now.

I sometimes work too hard and think too much too often about what I'm doing rather than just doing it and after a few months it shows. NOT thinking is better for me!


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## Lazarus

"Every ceiling, when reached, becomes a floor, upon which one walks as a matter of course and prescriptive right."~Aldous Huxley


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## TAIL_CHASER

Good stuff guys.... Kinda off topic here. My son was a National ranked wrestler. This happened to him at one point. But I think back and can see why, from a vary young age pushing himself like and Olympic athlete for years. Not to mention the money I put into it. But he enjoyed it. I never had to push him he seemed to have that built in. If anything I should have slowed him down. But he wouldn't let me. Due to wrestling being so competitive, he could tell to be great you have to stay on top of your game.


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## Imissedagain

I like to focus on the great feeling in my body and mind when there is a bow in my hand.
All else is gravy.
In the late sixties, age 19, I beat the world's best smallbore shooter and I didn't even know what an X was.
Making a living doing the things you love is freedom at its best.
That's a reasonable goal.
Stay healthy and you just might get to do everything you want.
We hunt with fishing rods in South Florida.


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## trumankayak

Tagged as a recovered archery burnout from the 90's
Two years back on the wagon


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## Kletos

I'm not sure that I'm all that concerned with prolonging my love for archery/hunting. I played baseball all through school. I was good. Always on the starting lineup. Starting pitcher and when I wasn't on the mound, I was at short-stop. Stopped playing after high school so that I could focus on college studies at a small school with a mediocre baseball program. Took up fishing for a while. Had my bass boat for a decade. Traveled some, vacationed on houseboats in spring and fall to maximize the enjoyment of that sport. Took a new job and moved to an area with fewer opportunities for fishing, so fishing became golfing. Golfed avidly for a decade. Got to a place where I was averaging around 80 +/- on decently tough courses, but was spending a lot more money than I could justify on green fees, and it was taking too much time away from family. I had already been hunting in the falls for some years, so I decided to give myself more to archery and gave up golf altogether. 

Now I have a great time with archery, but I'm not worried about making it a lifelong adventure. I've enjoyed learning all sorts of different aspects about the sport, and especially those things that impact bowhunting, yet I know that at some point in my life some other challenge will likely present itself as more interesting and I will probably pursue that. 

For me, hobbies and sports are simply diversions in life that should help maximize the enjoyment of what God has given me, and help keep me refreshed and interested enough that I don't get burned out on 'life', while at the same time not interfering with those things that are _most_ important, namely my faith, family and responsibilities within my community and country.


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## Mahly

I can relate. I always seem to have at least one dominant hobby, and it changed on a similar schedule.
There was the bike racing, then martial arts (which I ended up teaching for a bit as well). Computers, Guitar playing (eventually putting a band together and getting a good following), mountain biking, etc. lots of them morphed. Wrestling turned into martial arts, which became MMA ( still roll with a local school from time to time) motorcycles morphed into ATVs... and back to motorcycles, computers which became a job networking. Etc etc.
The one thing I started with, seems to be the one thing I always came back to. Archery, in one form or another has always been there when the others fade away. Good thing too! Most of the other hobbies don't work so well as you age. I'm planning on shooting till I can't!
It may drop down the list again someday, but I'm more into archery than ever before. And I am kinda happy about that


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## fresnohunter

Great thread


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## SonnyThomas

Update.....If you haven't followed Tony, he's been doing pretty good. A 3rd and a 1st and this weekend at the ASA ProAm in Kentucky he placed 3rd. Congrats, Tony.


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## TNMAN

SonnyThomas said:


> Update.....If you haven't followed Tony, he's been doing pretty good. A 3rd and a 1st and this weekend at the ASA ProAm in Kentucky he placed 3rd. Congrats, Tony.


You made me look at the scores. 3rd is not too shabby and does help pay for the habit, but it's the kind of finish that makes you kick yourself every time you think about it. Sunday's score was 20 points below Sat. Equipment, maybe? The 218 on Sat probably opened some eyes.


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## tmorelli

TNMAN said:


> You made me look at the scores. 3rd is not too shabby and does help pay for the habit, but it's the kind of finish that makes you kick yourself every time you think about it. Sunday's score was 20 points below Sat. Equipment, maybe? The 218 on Sat probably opened some eyes.


Boy.... I wish I could blame it on equipment. The bottom line is that I just couldn't see the yardages.

You're right, this is as disappointing of a national podium as I've ever had. Missed opportunities, slipped through my fingers, gave it away.... all that stuff. But, at the same time, it is three national podiums, in three attempts, in a highly competitive class, this year and it is more than I expected given my level of preparation between TX and KY. 

For the sake of sharing positive information... lessons learned of sorts.... I almost blew the win on Sunday in Paris, TX. A few targets in on Sunday morning, I suddenly started underjudging targets. I shot 4-8's in a matter of 5 targets. Now, I waited too long to adapt but I adapted, overcame and kept gunning to climb back into the lead. At that time, I "thought" I knew what happened but I wasn't sure. See, I had started off on a positive but suddenly went cold.... that transition was the moment when the sun had gotten high enough to be over the horizon and beaming through the trees onto the targets. The lighting change (for the brighter) was showing new detail on the targets and suddenly I was judging 1-1.5 yards short. This Sunday morning in KY, it was pretty dark when we started. I went 10, 12, 10 to start. I led off on the 4th target just as the sun was poking through the trees, shining on that muley, and I underjudged the target for a low 8. I did this again 3 times in the next 4 targets.... then 2 more times later in the round.

So, there are few take aways from that. First, judging during the lighting change. I'm changing my practice routine a bit to help with this but the truth is that new found awareness of it is probably "almost" enough to take care of it. Second, at some point, my yardage struggles become a course management issue... hindsight being 20/20, I should've gone more conservative (sooner, or altogether). 

All in all, this weekend was my 1 year anniversary of being in the judging game. I expect some hiccups and am learning from each one.


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## Cbfastcar

Same thing here I almost went through a burnout because I would shoot 7 days a week 2 hrs a day then I stopped myself and said what is the point of shooting this much if it's not fun now I shoot 3 times a week for 1 hr or less it was fun to win everything but it was not fun in the same deal. People say you can't win if you do not put the time in, a long time ago I was a swimmer for 7 years I did it on the 7 th year i said why am I doing this im over burnt I don't enjoy it anymore I don't even like it anymore so I quit. Archery is not much different if you burn out stop and take a break or slow down it helps a lot if you find shooting buddies because you can joke around and you don't thnk about the why am I doing this you say this is fun I like it.


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## GrahamJ

Figured it was time to drag this one back out of the vault and be encouraged with progress I am seeing in my own shooting. Thanks to Tony and Laz, Padgett, Mahly, Sonny, and a host of other shooters who are far more advanced than me, but help to pull me up to another level. I am very competitive in a number of areas, but reading this thread last year made me step back and re-evaluate my interest in archery. I have been practicing in my basement (outdoor archery isn't much fun at 10-15 below freezing), and recently have shot several 300s on down scaled Vegas faces. I don't expect to see that score every time I shoot though. I have a friend that is probably better than I am, who is upset if he shoots less than 300. What he doesn't seem to realize is that he has only shot a few of them in his career. 
If I may extrapolate from that, I think that part of building a sustainable career is to not expect more out of myself than is reasonable. Challenge myself, absolutely. Set high goals, absolutely. But don't expect miracles.
Anyway, thanks for listening to my ramble. I just wanted to say thanks for a great thread. I have read it several times, and plan to re-read it again. The perspective is priceless, and probably part of the reason I enjoy this sport as much as I do.
Regards,
Graham


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## Ned250

GrahamJ said:


> don't expect miracles.


:thumbs_up


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## carlosii

There's a difference between making the decision to leave archery, for whatever reason, and having the decision made for you.
As a geezer I'm now faced with the prospect of not being able to shoot again after shoulder surgery.
I've not been a serious threat for the podium since the early 60's but that does not detract from the enjoyment I get from competing in national tournaments. For me now it is all about trying to make the next arrow the best arrow and enjoying the company of other archers at these events.
Just saying appreciate it while you can and make sure you know what motivates you to be an archer.


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