# World (WA) 3D Championships



## wanemann

I believe AC hardly mentions this event because quite simply there is lack of interest, due to the fact it is quite expensive, and pretty much 100% on your own dime. so those who are in the know about this event are passionate about what they do, really wanna compete on a world level, and most importantly have the monetary means to do so. Its hard to promote and push something when you aren't backing it.
the event itself I herd form our world champion peter garrett is truly a great event to experience.


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## Bow bandit

If you really want a world 3D event, go to the IBO! Closer and way more archers. The cost to qualify for the FITA 3D worlds is nuts because you have to travel in Canada first to qualify which is an arm and a leg itself. This is why most of the people listed are from western Canada where the qualifier was held. The format and targets for the shoot are also a little different.


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## Stash

How about not hijacking my thread, Blake?


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## Stash

I understand that, wanemann, but it's an archery event with Canadian AC members attending, and you'd think that even if it was completely self-funded, Archery Canada would at least mention it. Last time in 2011 Peter Garrett and Tim Watts came home with medals.


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## wanemann

don't know what to say stash, you think they would mention it, there is just no interest in promoting 3D I guess, maybe no one there has an interest to drive it, heck they still have a picture of peter and tim on the home page with peters name being roger garrett, I don't think that would be the case with a top target shooters name for 2 years never mind a world champion, its sad really.


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## Bow bandit

How about reading my entire post!!!!! Or knowing anything about 3D Stan!!!!


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## Bow bandit

Oh, and the awnser to you question is nobody in North America cares about European 3D!!! To be blunt!


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## crkelly

Two years ago I tried twice to contact Archery Canada about where and when the indoor 3d would be held. I left two messages for them and after a number of weeks went by I phoned and was lucky to catch him while in. I was told an attempt was made to contact me by email that I never received and with an attitude. 3D phobia I guess but I like it on the dark side lol.


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## DssBB

:happy1::happy1:


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## Stash

Blake, my question was why there was little or no information on the AC website regarding this event and our national team. "I'm wondering why Archery Canada has hardly mentioned this event" and "Does anyone know any more about this event?". 

No need to bring up another organization and shoot as being "better", and no need to insult me, and referring to the team members themselves this year and in the past as being "nobody" was uncalled for. Clearly somebody did care enough about the WA 3D Championships this year and in 2011 to qualify for the team and (presumably) pay their own way to go.

Blake, you're a good shot, and a very good 3Der, but you need to work on your people skills.


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## ontario3-d'r

Good Luck to the archers headed for Italy. We know you will do Canada proud on the REAL world Stage. Be proud to wear the maple leaf. I know I was. For those who don't know, each country is only allowed a maximum of three archers per division. That is why there might be only about 70 archers in any division, however; there won't be any body there shooting 360/400. Some people think that the number of tournament participants is more important than the quality of archer participating. To some it is the other way around. In Italy, there will be over 20 National Champions competing against each other. That is the REAL World Event. Make sure that you take lots of souveniers to trade with other archers, and make sure you take lots of pictures. That way, you can show your grandkids you represented Canada. When I was in Austria, the 2011 World 3D Champion in Men's compound (who actually was the Austrian Archers Vice-President), informed me that there are 50,000 individual members of the Austrian Archery Assotiaion. And, by the way, he didn't make his National team this year. That is how good "European" Archery is. Good luck, once again, to all the archers. Enjoy the experience, it is a great one. Make sure you share your adventure with the rest of us when you get back.


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## Hoytalpha35

3D and archery in general is just plain poorly promoted up here. My understanding is there isn't much funding or backing of 3D with Archery Canada because of the association with shooting animals and hunting. The only reason I even knew it was happening is because a friend was going. It takes a few events to qualify over a couple years not just a single qualifier so definitely a big investment even before thinking about Worlds. For us westerners it'd be a long trip to the IBO or ASA events. Redding would be about the closest big event off the top of my head. Sure would be nice to start a legit/bigger 3D set of events north of the border.


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## XTRMN8R

stan, I think you answered your own question. 230 archers, IMO its a non-event. In general Canada doesn't send its best 3d archers anyway because the process to qualify is an absolute joke. I am not sure how Canada ended up with 11 archers going??? The fact AC didn't say much is proportional to how much they care.


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## XTRMN8R

oh, and if this is supposed to represent the Real 3d then why does the neighboring country of Switzerland have the same number of entries as the U.S.A? Which is 1 by the way.


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## Wardlow warrior

Go Canada Go!!!!! Show some pride Canada instead of what ever you wanna call this... Travis Skinner, Cody&Ray Draper are snipers as I'm sure the rest of the archers are as deadly.. They will represent us well with class. 
Perhaps instead of what ever u wanna call this... We all work on building the sport 3d up... It takes time an dedication
I've e often wondered why not do 3d shoots like rodeos? $500 added per class... Not knowing the rest of Canada but in Alberta I don't think it would be hard to find sponsers as a lot of archers are involved in industry be it oil&gas construction forestry finance etc I surmise that many archers In other provinces are similar... 
Going to 3d shoots cost cash.... The shoots I've been to any way you might have a $50 entry an win $20.. Yes they are fund raiser for the clubs but I know so many people that would sooner shoot at home then fork out cash with no return ( not saying I'm a sniper but it would be some incentive) 
Having been round rodeos my whole life I really don't think it would be that hard to do the same thing with a 3d shoot...
The mother of all shoot has how many shooters? An why? 


Sent using old school smoke signal


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## Stash

Dave, I'm not in any way saying that the WA 3D is in any way better or worse than IBO or anything else - I was simply asking if anyone knew why the people running Archery Canada seem to have basically forgotten about it. I'd defer to Tim's opinion on the quality and value of that tournament anyways, as he's shot this event. As for the Swiss, who knows what goes on in that place? 

The numbers are low primarily, as has been pointed out already, because there is a limit of how many entries are allowed per division per country. Also, there are far fewer categories than in IBO and other North American 3Ds.

Wardlaw - don't start that up sponsorship thing again . No, it wouldn't be hard to get sponsors, except for the small matter of finding someone to volunteer do it and _actually follow through_, and if you remember back to another thread of a couple of years ago (which I won't be bringing back to life again unless someone provokes me ), that's not likely to happen.


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## DssBB

I think it`s great that Canada sends its archers to compete on world stage events and those that have been chosen to represent Canada have put in countless hours of hard work and dedication to the sport of archery. Canada on the other hand has a rapidly growing population of 3D archers and 3D tournaments where the number of participants heavily out weigh those who primarily compete in field and fita events and seem to get little to no support or recognition what so ever. Those 3D archers have also put forth countless hours of practice and dedication to the sport of archery just as those field and fita archers have. The out of pocket expense traveling to numerous 3D tournaments throughout Canada and the United States along with the ability of some Canadian 3D archers who compete and are quite successfully against their competition seems to go completely unnoticed by Archery Canada. 
Archery Canada needs to open its eyes to the whole sport of archery and see just how much potential and quality in archers they are turning a blind eye too. Memberships in local archery clubs and provincial organizations throughout the country has grown substantially in the past few years and the majority of those archers are competing in 3D.


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## Wardlow warrior

Well I'm new to the whole competitive archery scene.... Me an my boys started going in January this year after watching a thing about the mother of all shoots on wild TV .... We love it.... If u take the town I live In( yes it's small there is 30 some of us ) prob 30% of us shoot bow mostly hunting an the girls shoot an love it at girl guilds .... An the rest wanna try.... We are trying to start a archery 4h club an the kids shoot at school... How many other small towns are like this?.. I don't know of threads from the past... I think it's best we concentrate on the present and an step up as leaders an promote the sport... 


Sent using old school smoke signal


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## wanemann

well.. if you look at this openly by what's presented here on AT.

one of our the top 3d guy in Ontario says"If you really want a world 3D event, go to the IBO/nobody in North America cares about European 3D!!! 
another top shooter say "the process to qualify is an absolute joke"(I know the only reason you say this is because you know a guy who was slated to go and didn't fully qualify by attending the nationals. you were explained that is was only because in that category only 1 qualified and wanted to go, so 2 spots were open to if some one showed interest and met 90% of the criteria to qualify, and why not its at no cost to AC. doesn't mean its a joke in my opinion. possibly means AC was open to 3D and maybe attempting to show numbers in 3D growing by sending more members, therefore possibly getting more funds allocated towards 3D... maybe they could have just said too bad 3d guy.

rob, we are saying too little support or recognition for 3D well, I point you to the "world fita" or "go crispin" thread, look at the views and post well that our support for them now look what happens when a guy shoots a moose(not downplaying that at all its awesome) 3x as much congrats as the guy(our Olympian) bringing back a CANADIAN MEDAL from a world event, my point is, my opinion is 3D is simply get back what it puts out there. I am totally on board with wardlow GO CANADA, GO ARCHERY.(PERIOD)don't care what discipline. it would be great to see all our star shooters convey the same attitudes as there is so many looking up to them.
just my 2 cents


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## CLASSICHUNTER

well guys to shoot for team Canada as waneman said you can buy your spot waneman and myself where slated to go to Italy and we did not even have to qualify for team as there was not even enough interest to fill the roster ...it is an easy 5 k out of pocket experience right down to buying your own uniform to wear to represent Canada at a cost of about 400 dollars....also just for info sake of the 200 registered shooters 150 are longbow and recurve trad shooters ..only about 50 compound shooters .....I have been able to shoot for team Canada twice but have had to opt out both times due to personal reasons ...deaths and illness in family...I found process frustrating and time consuming and should be revamped totally to get shooters interested...again only about 6 countries really participate in this event which is really too bad ...hard to compete against the Italian team when they show up a week early and are put up in a 5 star hotel and have a coach to practise with at the venue ....all expenses paid ....I like the rest of us can't figure why Peters name has not been corrected ....if its not fita to them its not archery duh imho


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## DssBB

wanemann, As I had mentioned, it was great that Canada has archers who compete for our country at world stage events and are successful in bringing home a medal for Canada. It is however unfortunate that Crispin who certainly deserved and didn't not get the Canadian support through posts on AT where a successful moose hunter received 3X as many views and congrats. 
By saying that "3D is simply get back what it puts out there" doesn't quite make sense. The number of archers and the revenue generated in this country by 3D archery greatly exceeds both fita and field combined. Archery is seeing rapid growth over the past few years and the growing interest in the sport seems to be heading in 3D. I also realize that the OAA is doing its best to help promote 3D archery and assist where it can and with what little funds it has available or is allowed to allocate to 3D. If the numbers show 3D as the discipline where the majority of interest seems to be heading, should it not be fitting that Archery Canada realize this as well and do what it can to also offer equal or some help and support through provincial organizations. The IBO and ASA in the states seem to be able draw record number of 3D archers to tournaments which in turn generates financial gain for clubs, archery shops and manufacturers, yet very few clubs in Ontario hosting events including Triple Crown tournaments can attract 75-100 archers. In order for 3D and archery to continue to succeed and grown within Canada, there needs to be some additional provincial and federal support and means of not only promoting archery but recognizing the achievements of those who have put forth the time and effort for the love of the sport.


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## Bigjono

Reading this as a non Canadian living in Canada I find it quite sad that 3D archery is treated as such a second class citizen by the federal and provincial federations. At very least a team should be funded to go to the iBO worlds, WA3D and WBHC. Even Australia fund a team at the iBO's
Apart from a 50c medal, what does anyone gain from winning their provincial 3D class? Are they funded at the Canadian champs. 
It really does seem like archery is run by target guys here and 3D gets a bum rap.


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## XTRMN8R

I just posted that stuff for entertainment value. How come no one attacks me like they do Blake?? am I not as good as him? besides, 3D is dead anyway...I'm applying for sponsorship with Henry Waszczuk. I want to be Canada's top Tarpon Fly angler.


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## Xs24-7

It's really not nearly as complex as some are making it out to be. The Archery Canada webmaster(Al) will post whatever relevant content he is given. The 3-d committee doesn't provide it, so it isn't there. Simple as that. Archery Canada spends a ton of $$ each years to ensure that each provinces 3-d reps meet at nationals, perhaps find out who yours is and hold his butt to the fire a bit. The VP in charge is Jude Hooey, contact her as well. It isn't apathy on the part of "Archery Canada"...it's apathy on the part of the 3D committee members who each province selects to represent them.


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## Wardlow warrior

I'm all for 3d....it's a activity the whole family can do together.... 


Sent using old school smoke signal


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## CLASSICHUNTER

x 24/7 why then has the web master not corrected peter garettes name yet on web site 2 years waiting and petter did contact them please ...bet crispins victory already posted .....and correctly as welll


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## Stash

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> x 24/7 why then has the web master not corrected peter garettes name yet on web site 2 years waiting and petter did contact them please ...bet crispins victory already posted .....and correctly as welll


Really? You're complaining about a spelling error on a website and you write his name like that in your complaint? 

Hmmm, now that I've looked at it, I see they have *my* name spelled wrong *twice* on the website. 

*HEADS MUST ROLL FOR THIS!!!*


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## Stash

XTRMN8R said:


> How come no one attacks me like they do Blake??.... I want to be Canada's top Tarpon Fly angler.


You're not nearly as "Blakey" as Blake is. 

BTW, nobody cares about Tarpon fishing in Canada, fly or otherwise. If you want funding, you'll have to try to organize it yourself.


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## Xs24-7

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> x 24/7 why then has the web master not corrected peter garettes name yet on web site 2 years waiting and petter did contact them please ...bet crispins victory already posted .....and correctly as welll


What relevance is a 2 year old spelling error? How should I know why it wasn't corrected? Who was the notice sent to? Maybe it got missed in the tons of emails archery Canada receives each day? How is it relevant to the conversation?
I am sure that Crispin's achievement is posted already....as the webmaster was there....as updates on the event are fed to world media on a minute to minute basis...as the team has professionalism in it leadership/communication...what does that have to do with archery Canada's coverage of a different event?
It's really easy, if 3-D archers want something, build it. If you want more promotion, ask that of your provincial reps. If you want better publication of your results, ask that of your provincial 3-d reps. If you want changes to how 3-d is administered, don't wait for someone else to do it. Talk to your provincial 3D rep and make sure they know what you would like to see...they can take it back to the 3D committee and if the committee feels its worthwhile, they can action it.


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## Stash

Getting back to serious, I see from the results we only have 3 Canadians make it into the eliminations after the qualifying round. http://www.ianseo.net/Details.php?toId=317
Jude Hooey and Renee Brouillette in women compound and Fred Streleoff in men instinctive.


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## Wardlow warrior

What can we do to promote 3d archery? 


Sent using old school smoke signal


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## Stash

I have been informed by the AC webmaster that the spelling correction has been made for Peter. He also tells me this was the first he heard of it, and, as Ed has stated, he puts on the website what he's been given. 

It's not his job to fact check but he will make corrections if properly notified of any errors.


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## wanemann

Stash said:


> I have been informed by the AC webmaster that the spelling correction has been made for Peter. He also tells me this was the first he heard of it, and, as Ed has stated, he puts on the website what he's been given.
> 
> It's not his job to fact check but he will make corrections if properly notified of any errors.


that's great news about peters name, I am sure he will appreciate it, and not that it matters but roger to peter is not a spelling mistake, its the wrong name. I know for a fact this was addressed 2 years back through emails, but yes things get lost/put on hold/forgotten etc s#$t happens, but I cant help but notice how it hits a public form and what wasn't done in 2 years was done in 2 days, its almost like forms are a good way to table issues :eek2:


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## Stash

The webmaster just happened to be browsing this forum when he saw the discussion, so it worked out, but I wouldn't expect that to happen all the time. It's still best to go through official channels when contacting a sports governing body.

By the way, apparently the wrong name error was part of the photo file, not added text, so it couldn't be easily corrected. The entire photo was removed. If anyone has the original photo without the names added, they can send it to the webmaster along with the correct names and he can put it back on the page.


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## rockin_johny

Stash said:


> By the way, apparently the wrong name error was part of the photo file, not added text, so it couldn't be easily corrected. The entire photo was removed. If anyone has the original photo without the names added, they can send it to the webmaster along with the correct names and he can put it back on the page.


Just thinking outside the box here, but maybe cropping the photo then adding a separate text line with the correct names would work. Someone should know how to do that don't ya think


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## crkelly

wanemann said:


> that's great news about peters name, I am sure he will appreciate it, and not that it matters but roger to peter is not a spelling mistake, its the wrong name. I know for a fact this was addressed 2 years back through emails, but yes things get lost/put on hold/forgotten etc s#$t happens, but I cant help but notice how it hits a public form and what wasn't done in 2 years was done in 2 days, its almost like forms are a good way to table issues :eek2:


Yep!!!!


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## Stash

rockin_johny said:


> Just thinking outside the box here, but maybe cropping the photo then adding a separate text line with the correct names would work. Someone should know how to do that don't ya think


Sure. Go ahead and do it (or find someone who can), send the pic to the webmaster and he'll put it up.


This thread seems to be drifting back towards the "things aren't the way I want them to be - somebody should do something, but not me" philosophy.


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## rockin_johny

Stash said:


> Sure. Go ahead and do it (or find someone who can), send the pic to the webmaster and he'll put it up.
> 
> 
> This thread seems to be drifting back towards the "things aren't the way I want them to be - somebody should do something, but not me" philosophy.


Kinda thinking the webmaster would know how to do that. After all that's what they get paid for. Just saying


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## Stash

rockin_johny said:


> Kinda thinking the webmaster would know how to do that. After all that's what they get paid for. Just saying


He doesn't get paid - he's a volunteer, and it's not his job to research, analyze, fact check, or correct what he's given to put on the site. The authors of the articles have the responsibility to make sure what they produce and send for posting is correct, proofread it after it's put on the site, and inform the webmaster of any changes that need to be made. At most, the webmaster would edit out or refuse questionable material. Just saying.


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## Xs24-7

Or maybe the webmaster is an unpaid volunteer who does it in his free time....on top of donating hundreds of volunteer hours to other Archery Canada programs...so maybe we as members get what we pay for....


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## Wardlow warrior

Xs24-7 said:


> Or maybe the webmaster is an unpaid volunteer who does it in his free time....on top of donating hundreds of volunteer hours to other Archery Canada programs...so maybe we as members get what we pay for....


If maybe that's correct I'm encouraged at least he's trying!!! An not moaning ... If he his a volenteer we should take his lead...


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## CLASSICHUNTER

Please Peter Garette did notify them what crap..... and he is a world champion .... and also if I remember the 3-d rep for archery Canada please correct me if I`m wrong and stash you still need to stop cutting people down on every response ....state the true facts and not fiction....and when I think Peter submitted the results he knew how to spell his own name....and I think if Peter didn`t then the team captain or Jude hooey I`m sure did spell it right ....imho and the volunteer card well overplayed .....


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## Stash

Who exactly did Peter notify? You can't blame someone several stages down the road if a message didn't get passed along. Exact quote from an e-mail I got on Wednesday from the webmaster: "this morning was the first I heard about the miss spelling..." I'm going to take the word of someone I've known for 35 years over heresay. 

I "cut people down" as you call it only when it's appropriate, usually when they cut someone else down first either directly or by inference, or overinflate themselves unduly.

OK, I've been provoked. Where's that cheque you were promised to hand over about a year and a half ago? "I`ll come up with some assistance and you can thank me later when I hand the cheque to the shooters for travel" I'll even be happy with any evidence of even a start of the process. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1737029&page=5 post #137


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## smoran

I've been sending results and have had correspondence with the webmaster for the last 4yrs, always been very prompt and accurate. I've also met him personally and it's obvious he's a true advocate for all forms of archery. Being webmaster is only one of the many hats he wears for Archery Canada, we should be very thankful for all he does for archery in general. Mistakes happen, it's not like it was done maliciously and with a purpose. Reading thru this thread, some of the comments by some of the posters are very immature and totally uncalled for. Sounds like sour grapes by some people that have a chip on their shoulder. Back to the original topic, congrats to the Canadian archers that attended this event, well done by all.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

stash wake up man..... you are saying when the world champion sends in a correction..Then a couple of posts ago u say a guy u know for a period of time is more correct than the guy himself ...... buddy can`t say it any nicer wake up please .....and you call it hear say..... and now you say his picture is gone ...lol lol please


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## CLASSICHUNTER

Oh and stash in regards to cash hand out why don`t u ask if Blake liked the chq he received and used for travel to worlds as well as Dave Mcquaker and the 4k I gave to the Hospital how much money did you personally generate into the archery world this year???? take a back seat buddy ......your responses are one sided and only half posted what about I asked you personally to help and others here on at and no takers including you and if I remember correctly I said no helpers its a no go post those responses as well ....but I still got 125 shooters at my shoot Probably one of the highest participant numbers around for all of Ontario...and that's out in the middle of no where..Man get a life ...no get off your ass and volunteer and I`m 65 and still doing it....


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## Bow bandit

Ted you cannot get through to the old guard so don't wast your breath on individuals that are stuck in the past. You are doing a great thing with your tournament. The fact that you are not just giving the money away and making us work for it through a good cause is very commendable. I for one appreciate the funding or prize money you are putting up and the archers that are winning that money for the most part are putting the money back into archery. Maybe if some of these keyboard cowboys would show up and shoot we might have something, but that may hurt their ego if they didn't win. So it is easier to cut people down from the safety of your couch where you can pretend to be something your not.


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## Stash

Ted, you said Peter said he sent in a correction, and that's "hearsay" by definition. I don't doubt he did, but I still don't know who specifically he sent it to, and without knowing that, I can't see how anyone could blame the webmaster. It hasn't been established that he got the message and ignored it. Now, if Peter *personally* told me (or posted here) that he sent in a correction to the webmaster directly *and* it was acknowledged as received, *and* then nothing was done, then I would consider your/his side of the story. 

As for the funding money, the discussion we all had a year and a half ago was in reference to national teams representing Canada, World Cup, World Championships (WA/FITA) and I haven't seen any evidence of any funding provided to these people. That being said, I was not aware that you had provided financial support to Blake and Dave until just now. For that I do sincerely congratulate you, and thanks.

Please note I have never said anything negative about your charity shoot. By all reports it's a great event and you raise money for a wonderful cause. Again, congratulations and thanks.

I'm not going to "get off my ass" and do any more volunteering for organized archery. I spent over 20 years in various volunteer roles at the club, OAA and FCA level in various positions, and I think I've more than paid my dues in that respect. The little spare time I have now goes to my family - I don't even get out shooting much any more.

I'm going to ask you to re-read and consider again what someone else posted during that heated discussion we had a year and a half ago.


> The comments you are perceiving as negative, you need to realize are really the voice of past experience trying to guide you not to fail. By all means utilize that new found energy you have, but be smart enough not to waste it on making the same mistakes, fall into the same pitfalls those whom have gone before you have.





Blake - If that "keyboard cowboy" comment was directed at me, I just want you to know it's not ego and the fear of losing that keeps me from showing up at 3Ds. I'm way past my prime shooting-wise, but I still show up at target and field events where recently I've been putting up Personal Worsts. I used to shoot 3D years ago, but I gave it up because my eyesight is so bad I often can't find the animal, much less the aiming spot. Just not fun for me.


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## Stash

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I find it interesting that out of the 40 previous posts on this thread about our national team at the WA 3D Worlds, only Wardlaw warrior and i actually mention any of our people by name. Most of the rest of this thread is *****ing and complaining about spelling errors, trials formats, funding, and so on. I know I opened the door to that by asking why AC had no mention of it on the website, but I was hoping we'd have a discussion on the tournament itself and our team members, and not focusing on any associated negativity.

Oh well.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

well stash some days you and I actually agree upon some items but I find you yourself don`t research out everything before hand Like my tournament monies...Peter is a personal friend of mine like the web master yours ...I shoot and travel with Peter to organized shoots ...And when peter says he sent them corrections sorry I tend to believe him. .put yourself in that situation ..Your a world champion and they don`t spell your name wrong ..Its the wrong name ....don`t you think you would try to get it corrected I won`t ask Peter to go through the process of defending himself here...but may I also say that in the 50 posts here on this thread 15 or so of them are yours ...Maybe sometimes its good to let things go...oh and Lana Perry and Rene are also friends of mine that I shoot with and are sponsors of my tournament as well...Maybe start a thread on how we can get coverage for our Canadian shooters..I work at it..... I got in 2 newspapers and 4 articles and photos of my tournament and two of those articles where in the emc paper ....and a personal interview ....we need archery Canada and the oaa to have a promotions person to get coverage on tv radio and newspaper ...imho and no I`m not interested you can see I handle my own quite well...Stash try to have positives and constructive criticism instead of the I told ya so attitude ..again these are my personal thoughts


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## Stash

OK, let's leave it at that. 

No promises, but I'm going to try to arrange time to attend your shoot next August. I'll have to shoot trad and embarrass myself, but hey, no ego, right? As long as I don't come in dead last...

Maybe I can share a room with Blake.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

I`d be honoured stash if you came to shoot the tournament and even in trad class there is a guaranteed 500 dollar purse . pays the room and dinner even if you finish third ...lol lol


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## 3Dworldchampion

test i just sent a 1 page answer and ig got deleted


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## Stash

The only way I could come third in a trad shoot is if there were only 3 people.


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## 3Dworldchampion

Quick correction Lana Perry , Jude and Fred advanced not Rene.

I’m sorry I was not on earlier, I could have directed you to the link through World Archery that gave a live update about every 3 targets of the world 3D Championships in Italy. Regardless of the qualifying rules, I am very proud of everyone who spent their time, effort and money to represent Canada at the World Championships in Italy 2013. Great job everyone. I followed it round by round ( I was up at 5am) and kept in touch with a team member as I know them all and most of them are my good friends. I tried to help my replacement Fred as much as I could and he did Canada PROUD, as did everyone else. In the case where there are less than 3 archers in one category, then fillers are allowed. I suggested this as we want to promote 3D archery as much as possible in Canada. 
In fairness to AC most of their funding comes from Sport Canada and is dedicated to Recurve archers only. Even the compounds are not fully funded. In 2009 I acted as Team Captain and AC paid all the archers entrance fees, about $150 Euro’s each. In 2011 and 2013 AC paid the expenses of a dedicated team Captain Ann Neumeyer and she did a great job! 
You can’t compare World Archery to IBO. IBO is all about sponsorships, i.e.: bows, releases, arrows, etc. In World Archery you march in behind your countries flag as a team , this gave me a huge patriotic feeling! Firing the winning arrow to capture the world championships was great but it was nothing like the pride and joy I felt as a Canadian when they raised our flag first to the top of the highest mast and over 2000 people had to listen to me and 9 other Canadians proudly sing our National Anthem.
There was an article immediately posted on the AC website but no permanent pictures. I was surprised that nothing was posted 2 months later as I sent a picture to the 3D AC rep right away. Especially as they had posted the Target World Champions picture permanently on the front page. So in November 2011 I sent an email requesting some recognition for the team, sent a team picture and asked them to post it, it was sent to AC and then forwarded to the webmaster but it wasn’t posted. ( I still have a copy of the emails sent Nov 15/11) In January I received an award from the Mayor of Ottawa for outstanding archer, I sent the article to AC and it was posted , but the name posted was Peter Garrod , confusing me with Roger Garrod the 3D judge. I sent a thank you to the webmaster for posting it and advised him of his over sight. I sent several more emails to 3D reps wondering why no picture was posted 6 months after winning. I feel this was a missed opportunity to promote 3D archery in Canada. Emails were sent to the 3D archery Canada rep but no pictures were posted. I didn’t send anything more to AC as I had already been accused of trying to promote myself and not 3D archery. Finally at the National 3D meeting in BC in August 2012 , I let the AC 3D rep have it for failing to promote 3D archery and the team. It was voted that pictures would be posted and I was asked to resubmit the photo’s which I did. Two photos were posted this time my name was Roger Garrett. I mentioned it to Archery Canada as did Roger Garrod, I did not mention it to the webmaster, I was concerned that it already taken a year to get it posted and if I complained, I was afraid they would just remove it. I guess someone mentioned it and now it has been removed ,,,,THANKS
For the record I am both the 3D rep and the National rep for Ontario on both executive committees and have been for 4 years. They all know me and my name!
As a result of my compliant at the 3D meeting somehow at both the opening and closing ceremonies the 3D AC rep never mentioned anything about the previous team or its successes, but they did announce the next years team and that they were on it! An unforgivable snub, everyone on that team deserved recognition for their efforts, and with the exception of Tim the Silver medalist the entire team was there too. Both Tim and I already received lots of recognition but our team mates that supported us had received nothing and they deserved better. The snub continued this year as the AC 3D rep again didn’t mention it again even though I personally sent her an email in advance saying how disappointed the entire team was not just me and asking her to correct her two previous omissions. That said with true class , Ann Neumeyer the team captain made a point of recognizing the team and its accomplishments! I can’t thank her enough for recognizing the 2011 team and their efforts. They supported Tim and me so much, I will be ever grateful to each of them and Ann! It was amazing how many people had no ideau of our success or that I had won the world championships. I try to promote 3D archery and give back to the sport, if anyone is interested, I send them any rule changes, target information and anything I can do to help. Those archers thank me and that is great but the main reason I am not shooting 3D archery anymore is the lack of support up above and the BS that I am self promoting.


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## Bigjono

What a sad reflection on 3D archery here, thank you for your well thought out post. Someone told me that WA3D will be here in 2015, I hope AC will have a full and funded team for that.


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## 3Dworldchampion

It would be nice but highly unlikely it will be here in 2015, We are hosting the Pan Am games that year. Also these things take a lot of money and preparation and I have not seen any group that could take that on.


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## Bigjono

3Dworldchampion said:


> It would be nice but highly unlikely it will be here in 2015, We are hosting the Pan Am games that year. Also these things take a lot of money and preparation and I have not seen any group that could take that on.


I have no insider info on this just know that is what was said in Italy last week so fingers crossed. Mind you I'm a Brit so I don't think I'd get in.


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## Stash

Check this out.
http://www.archerycanada.ca/images/stories/FCA/Results/teamhistory/Canteams4.htm
Click the 3D button on the bottom row. Scroll down on the page when it comes up.


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## 3Dworldchampion

Stash

The link you provided to that picture, has been posted for 2 years and is near impossible to find, it is not what we have been talking about. It was posted within 30 days of the World Championship. The other 2 pictures took almost a year to get posted. Considering in over 60 years of competitions for Canada Internationally , including Juniors and our AWD archers (Athletes with Disabilities who have done incredibly well in recent years) Canada has only won 8 Individual World Championships. Do you think that it is the archers responsibility to send photo's in and ask for them to be posted? The whole ideau was to promote 3D archery and make the photo's showing Canada's success one of the main pictures on the web site to sprk interest in 3D archery. The last 2 target world champions pictures were posted right away on the front page so why not 3D. As Ted indicated it is not a spelling error it was the wrong name. That was the 3rd time in the same year it happened, but I am not saying it was done on purpose, it would be out of charcater for that person to do something like that, but I did advise the individual the first 2 times, so a bit disappointed the third time it happened. I did advise AC the 3rd time though.
We all need to get along and work together to promote 3D archery in Canada, thats all I was trying to do but I have been bullied and snubbed as a result.


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## XTRMN8R

promote 3d archery???

"You can’t compare World Archery to IBO. IBO is all about sponsorships, i.e.: bows, releases, arrows, etc."

that's the biggest load of road apples I've read yet. I'm sure Levi, Dan McCarthy, Jeff Hopkins, Chance and all those guys no one has ever heard of shoot just for the sponsorship...not because they are any good right?


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## Stash

XTRMN8R said:


> Elite Archery prostaff
> Vortex Canada Prostaff
> Gold Tip prostaff
> spot-Hogg prostaff
> "I shoot a Stan"


'nuff said.


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## 3Dworldchampion

the point was they don't compete representing their country as a team, if they win do they play the national anthem?


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## Bow bandit

Lets face the facts, these are two different forms of 3D archery and winning either event has its appeal depending on an individuals goals and interests. Dave and I feel similarly because we have seen the talent level of the archers that shoot ASA, IBO National and world events. Would we like the opportunity to represent our Country! I think that would be a great thing for anyone to do! The challenge is in the cost, Dave and I can travel together to all of the iBO events including the worlds for less than what it would cost us to qualify in Canada and travel to Europe for one event. I personally like shooting more than one major event in one year. The really sad part is you go for the most part on your own dime while other countries smaller than ours send fully funded teams. Kudos to those who were able to get the week off required to shoot it and had the funds to go, wether you got sponsorship or put it out of your own pocket, representing your country is something to be proud of. I just think it would be amazing to send a Canadian team that is made up of all our very best archers and not just the ones that can afford to go. Before everyone jumps down my throat I am not implying those that qualified and travelled to Italy are not great archers, some have the medals to prove it! There are just dozens of other great archers that may never get to experience this type of event due to cost and that is Sad for our country.


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## Stash

Well said, Blake.

One of the unfortunate issues is, again, the number of different associations out there. Some attract the world's best, some don't. I am only familiar with the archers in the compound (and recurve) divisions and it's obvious to anyone looking at the results that the compound archers who compete in the IFAA World Field, for instance, are simply not up to the caliber of those who shoot WA target. Same goes for WA 3D - not anywhere near the top shooters we see in IBO. 

It's regrettable that our top 3D shooters at the WA 3Ds may not always be Canada's best, but there's really no way to fairly select a team without having a process that gives everyone the same opportunity to earn a place on the team. I wish there was some way to give everyone the same means as well as the same opportunity.


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## doc2931

Well said both Blake and Stan, funding for Canadian athletes has always and will always be a major issue and an unfortunate situation that archery and many other sports have to contend with regularly. The sports that have huge amounts of money to send teams around the world have significantly larger organizations and membership bases standing behind them along with many paid office, marketing and promotion teams. Archery to date at any level National, Provincial or even at the local club level have not yet developed that degree of solidarity to work together. Part of the problem is that archery is so split that the different disciplines, let alone a National body, can't even get along half the time and work together to progress the sport. Until the community as a whole comes together and works with each other to develop and promote archery as a whole, we will never be in a position to develop the promotional and support side of the National, Provincial and Local organizations.

This thread is a perfect example, you can see the separation between the 3D shooters and the Targets shooters, only when everybody puts aside their petty differences and work together can archery grow to the level that other sports have already attained, while at the same time gaining the support of national government funding, private and corporate sponsorship. Archers need to realize that we are all archers!! no matter what discipline you shoot, once this is understood and everyone begins to work together, can the idea of supporting Provincial and National athletes to a higher degree become possible and attainable.

Rather then fighting and degrading each other, how about understanding the differences in each discipline, respecting each other as archers no matter what we shoot and working together. 

Michael Martin
OAA President
[email protected]


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## CLASSICHUNTER

My concern is that the governing bodies are more fita orientated .....As I have stated before its time for the governing bodies to ex oaa and archery canada or fca to educate gov`t ..they have to be leaders here ....Micheal did the figures for membership preference get posted yet for review Has been a yr ....


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## doc2931

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> My concern is that the governing bodies are more fita orientated .....As I have stated before its time for the governing bodies to ex oaa and archery canada or fca to educate gov`t ..they have to be leaders here ....Micheal did the figures for membership preference get posted yet for review Has been a yr ....


Hi Ted, 

My point made again right there "My concern is that the governing bodies are more fita orientated". We need to stop the separation, if we are to grow. Both organizations believe it or not do support all facets of archery, because of the specific funding regulations from government yes some disciplines do get financial support but this is not a decision of the OAA or AC, this is decided directly by the Government Funding Body....the organizations does not have a choice in this. Either use it for what it is specified for, or you don't get it at all, its that simple.

It would be fantastic if we could tell government how they should think and they would listen. Unfortunately that is not how it works, Sport Canada has specific guidelines, regulations and programs that must be adhered to that come directly from the Ministry of Sport. We have been discussing, talking etc. at both Provincial and National levels for years but the fact of the matter is that the government makes their decisions and we have to follow them, we can't just decide that we want to do it a different way and that is it. Sorta like trying to tell a cop that you weren't actually speeding because you think speeding is ok, simply doesn't work.

That DOES NOT mean that the National and Provincial bodies could not support the none Olympic sports themselves, but this requires MONEY!! And currently national and provincial bodies are functioning on small budgets which means the funds are simply not there to do such things. If all the archers in Ontario joined the OAA, which subsequently also provides AC membership then absolutely the organizations would have more money to work with and would be able to support more teams and archers from all disciplines specifically the non Olympic disciplines that do not receive government funding.

The OAA Target Championships marked the last of the memberships coming in this year, and brought in more members and more results from the survey. we now have a complete set of data for this year which has been assembled and individual reports generated based on that data. It will be available at the OAA AGM on October 27th at OCCS first and then posted on the OAA Website and FB Group after.

Michael Martin
OAA President
[email protected]


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## CLASSICHUNTER

Mike this is not really accurate then as you said more at the target championships ...again fita based ..can we not use the numbers straight up from before that you where willing to send me about 10 months ago... this is definitely not correct and a one sided show buddy ...can`t we get accurate statistics from the oaa please and memberships signed at event should not be included....


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## Stash

If you want to start another OAA bashfest, please open a new thread. This is about the Canadian 3D team.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

true


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## doc2931

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Mike this is not really accurate then as you said more at the target championships ...again fita based ..can we not use the numbers straight up from before that you where willing to send me about 10 months ago... this is definitely not correct and a one sided show buddy ...can`t we get accurate statistics from the oaa please and memberships signed at event should not be included....


The OAA takes memberships all year round with the three Championships and Junior Challenge being major sources of membership. If we were to exclude the Target Championships then all other Championships including 3D, Field and Junior Challenge would also have to be excluded or the results would be skewed. The fact is a member is a member no matter when they join. When a new Canadian Citizen is sworn in are they not considered Canadian as of that point? I do believe they are.

So taking the data gathered at the end of the year is exactly the correct time to do this as we have a TRUE representation of the membership at that point. It would be fantastic if all people that were going to join the OAA, joined at the very beginning of the year, but this is not practical to assume would ever happen in an sense.

Anyways, I don't believe anything more needs to be said about that and Stash you are absolutely correct this thread is about the Canadian 3D Team, so this will be the end for me.

Michael Martin
OAA President


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## Bigjono

I think the OAA and AC need to first decide what direction and affiliations they want to use for 3D. Do they follow IFAA, WA3D, IBO etc etc.
My advice would be to tie it in with iBO regs and rules. They are the big 3D players in North America so it would make sense to line the classes up with them and send a Canadian team to the Worlds.


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## ontario3-d'r

The OAA and AC have already decided which organizations they are following. They are associated with World Archery. World archery covers FITA, and IFAA tournaments. Every Single AC Championship event runs under the World Archery Rules. FITA. There are literally tens of thousands of world wide members in FITA. They are the organization that every country in the world - including the USA - use to govern their national events. The US Target Championships, both indoor (including the VEGAS Shoot), and outdoor championships use WA rules !!!. When countries send their teams to the World Target and 3D Championships, they know the rules because their national championships ran the same way. I know it has been stated many times before, but it does not seem to be getting through to Canadian archers. AC is handcuffed as to what programs they can use the government grants for. At this time, compound archery is not on the list put forth by the Canadian Government. They simply do not receive grant money to send compound teams anywhere - regardless if it is WA or IBO.


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## Bigjono

Quick question then, how many Canadians shoot iBO 3D events as compared to WA3D? 
I have a dog in this fight because I would like the OAA to align the RU rules with the iBO but I'm interested to see the numbers.


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## FiFi

as far a I know AC does use IBO rules for all BH disciplines even in target/Field/indoors, I know Big F shot BHO in the AC indoor Champs this year,My understanding is that the OAA will be using those as well for 2014.

Sean


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## ontario3-d'r

I do not know how many Canadian shoot the IBO. Maybe Blake or Dave can help us with the numbers. I would assume that there are quite a few through out the country that attend the IBO events. Like I said, it is a wonderful organization. However; contrary to what people may think, the IBO is an AMERICAN organization, not a world organization. It is an organization designed to promotes 3D in the States!! They are an organization that has nothing to do with any other form of archery in the world. (Indoor target and outdoor field and target or world 3D) They make their own rules and guidelines, and if you want to shoot their event, that is the way you have to set your bow up. If anything, the IBO should change their RU rules to fit the WA. EVERYWHERE else in the world, shoots the RU class the same way. Why does the IBO have different rules? Seems wrong for the whole world to change to be the same as an American archery organization.


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## FiFi

Bigjono said:


> I think the OAA and AC need to first decide what direction and affiliations they want to use for 3D. Do they follow IFAA, WA3D, IBO etc etc.
> My advice would be to tie it in with iBO regs and rules. They are the big 3D players in North America so it would make sense to line the classes up with them and send a Canadian team to the Worlds.


The OAA follows the AC rules with modest differences for Ont shooters, ie Crossbow. 

AC holds affiliations with WA and the IFAA each has several World Champs held throughout the World

WA - World Target, Field, 3D, Indoors as well as World Cups for both indoor and Target, also requires a qualifying standard to attend (closed entry)

IFAA- World Field, 3D, indoors, Pro series (Field) requires membership in the National body only (open entry)

Each has their own rules and regs for each discipline and equipment used 

WA has very few equipment divisions, recurve/compound with barebow in field and longbow and instinctive in 3D

IFAA has a series of target classes FS unlimited/limited/barebow as well as BH classes that use normal BH equipment ie no long stabs and scopes. BH unlimited/limited/Bowhunter, I believe they now have longbow/primitive and Historic.

The IBO is a big player in the Northern US where the ASA is the big player in the Southern US, neither organisation has ever held their Worlds outside of the US where both WA and IFAA hold their World Champs throughout the Globe

AC has adopted the IBO rules and equipment for the BH divisions within AC I believe the OAA will follow suit for 2014

Sean


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## Bigjono

I'm fully aware of what the iBO is and what it's limitations are, I just think that for 3D they have things pretty well sorted. WA3D is ok as is IFAA but look at the numbers compared to iBO.
I guess you do what you think works best but I don't see 3D booming here right now so I think all options should be looked at.
I admit id love the OAA to bring in the 12" stab rule for RU but if they don't, it's no big deal, I'm sure the RU class is more than ok without me in it


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## DssBB

Bigjono,
3D archery is booming here in Ontario compared to field and fita events and the number of participants at 3D events proves it. The problem we have here in Ontario and the rest of Canada is the lack of an organization like the IBO or ASA to take charge of putting on and running a successful series of tournaments and promoting 3D archery. The OAA with their limited resources and funds cannot take 3D in this province or country to the next level and establish anything near what the IBO and ASA have done. It's quite sad that we in Canada cannot get the support and assistance from sponsors and manufactures that the US 3D organizations receive and without their contributions and promotional assistance,3D will never take off or even be 1/2 of what is available in the States. 
In order to grow and expand 3D archery in Ontario and the rest of Canada, we may need to look toward help from the IBO or ASA in expanding their existing organization and regions in which they currently run. The IBO, if they are willing to expand and allow Ontario to be added as an additional region, may be able also help bring in sponsorship(funding) and assist greatly with attendance and promotional help through the archery and hunting industry.


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## FiFi

Bigjono said:


> I'm fully aware of what the iBO is and what it's limitations are, I just think that for 3D they have things pretty well sorted. WA3D is ok as is IFAA but look at the numbers compared to iBO.
> I guess you do what you think works best but I don't see 3D booming here right now so I think all options should be looked at.
> I admit id love the OAA to bring in the 12" stab rule for RU but if they don't, it's no big deal, I'm sure the RU class is more than ok without me in it


Whats the magic # for a tournament to be good, 200-400-600-800-1000? Does an IFAA WBHC that's has 892 means its better than WA3DC that's has 200 or a lesser shoot than an IBO that has 1200? lets be real about this once you get out of the top 7-8 shooters your participating and not really competitive. Does a qualifying standard mean the best will be there over an open tournament?, we have had archers show up to the Olympics with wood arrows and fiberglass bows, there is a lot more to quality events than numbers and who is or isn't there


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## FiFi

DssBB said:


> Bigjono,
> 3D archery is booming here in Ontario compared to field and fita events and the number of participants at 3D events proves it. The problem we have here in Ontario and the rest of Canada is the lack of an organization like the IBO or ASA to take charge of putting on and running a successful series of tournaments and promoting 3D archery. The OAA with their limited resources and funds cannot take 3D in this province or country to the next level and establish anything near what the IBO and ASA have done. It's quite sad that we in Canada cannot get the support and assistance from sponsors and manufactures that the US 3D organizations receive and without their contributions and promotional assistance,3D will never take off or even be 1/2 of what is available in the States.
> In order to grow and expand 3D archery in Ontario and the rest of Canada, we may need to look toward help from the IBO or ASA in expanding their existing organization and regions in which they currently run. The IBO, if they are willing to expand and allow Ontario to be added as an additional region, may be able also help bring in sponsorship(funding) and assist greatly with attendance and promotional help through the archery and hunting industry.



If this is what you are looking for then you are looking for a Company not an Organisation. We have had sponsorship from the US companies as they helped sponsor the World Bowhunting champs in 1993 in Niagara Falls as well as several 3D events that gathered anywhere from 200-800 shooters here in Ontario, the problem as always is people get tired of doing all the leg work to put on events like that anymore, if someone wants to take the reigns events like that can happen again


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## ShawnRees

After reading all of this, I'm not sure the intent behind the original question was answered. And, as sure as all of us have an arsehole, and equally not having an accurate answer, I too have an opinion. Isn't the real question "Why aren't these questions being asked of our so called 'Governing Associations' on mass as individuals not a group? The more times something is asked, pushed or *****ed about, the sooner it warrants a legitimate response. It's MY responsibility to cheer as loud as I can for the sport regardless of how an individual may choose to fling an arrow."

The bashing may begin now... Or, maybe, each of us could thank the team, loudly, for their efforts instead. 

Enough said.


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## ontario3-d'r

Another thing that seems to be missed all the time is the actual numbers of archers in this country. The States has over 10 times the population as Canada, therefore it is safe to assume that they have 10 times the archers as well. If we get 150 at the Canadian Championships, and they get 1500 at the IBO's, then we are right on par as far as participation per capita. It is un realistic to expect Canada to have a tournament as big as an IBO event, just because of the potential number of participants. AC would absolutely love to send a compound team somewhere, there is just no money for it. It is simple, Compound bows are not at the Olympics, therefore, there is no funding for them from the government. I have heard that in order for compounds to be at the Olympics, archery must be removed completely from the Olympics. Then it would have to be re-introduced as a new sport-including compounds. This is a 12 year process to get a "new sport" in the Olympics. There is just no way that the recurve bows should miss 2 Olympics to get compounds in. Imagine the fights that would cause! We need to stop bashing the AC committee. There hands are tied.


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## Bigjono

I'm lost now, how did we end up talking about compounds in the Olympics. We are talking about world champ events in general and it makes sense that if you win your class at Provincial level, you are sent to a national champs, win that and you are sent to a World champs, other countries manage it so why can't Canada?


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## ShawnRees

Bigjono said:


> I'm lost now, how did we end up talking about compounds in the Olympics. We are talking about world champ events in general and it makes sense that if you win your class at Provincial level, you are sent to a national champs, win that and you are sent to a World champs, other countries manage it so why can't Canada?


Now, there's an idea. Is there any other format that would provide a better way to choose our Champions that should represent our country? This would make an entire season meaningful. So, many mandatory tournaments per Province to determine the qualifiers and then a National to determine spots on the Country's National Team. Kinda gives us something to chase and not necessarily controlled by any one governing body...

Maybe I should stop drinking in the morning. :beer:

Does AT usually get this far off topic?


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## ontario3-d'r

I don't know how else I can say this. Until the Canadian Government recognizes the Compound bow, there will be no funding given to AC for Compound bows. Only recurve bows are recognized by the Canadian Government because that is the bow shot at the Olympics. Until compounds are at the Olympics, AC will receive no funding for compound teams. PERIOD. The OAA already sends people to the Nationals, granted only a few, but that is what the OAA can afford. The OAA is not sitting on buckets of money, and not spending it. What the get, they put back into shooting. It is truly amazing to me what people think they should get for their $30 membership. To send 10 people to Nationals to represent Ontario would cost over $15,000, and that is just the 3D Championships ($1500 per person - Air flight, hotels and food). What about the Canadian Field Archery and Target Archery Championships? The OAA just doesn't have $50,000 lying around. I absolutely agree that you win-you move on. That would be wonderful. The money is just not there for travel teams. The OAA board and AC board apply every year for compound money, and every year they are turned down. It sucks, but that is just the way it is. No one knows why archery is funded better in other countries. How could we.!


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## Bigjono

There in lies the catch 22, where is the incentive for people to spend out on trips to the national champs when there is no end game.
My buddy comes from Australia to the IBO worlds most years, part funded by the 3D Archery Assc of Australia, along with male and female compound shooters so it is possible from a country with a small population. If Canada are not representing themselves well on the world stage, perhaps it's time for all the provinces to sit down with AC and say "can we do things differently"
know Mike at the OAA, he does a great job and I support him 100% but this is a national issue so needs a national solution, that starts with communication.


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## ontario3-d'r

I would absolutely love to see a Canadian team sent to a major shoot every year. Thant would be truly amazing. I know for a fact that the best Canadian archers in every division can compete at the world stage. It has been proven already with guys like Blake, Dave, Andrew Fagan, Deitmar, Chris Perkins, and myself all winning medals on the major world stage. All of us went on our own dime because we did not have any other way. I just can't see where the $25,000 is going to come from to send the team. We absolutely cannot ask the AC volunteers to do any more. They already are asked way too much of. It will be very hard to get Canadian corporations to sponsor the team, as the Canadian Uniform is not allowed to have any logo's embroidered on them. There goes possible TV advertising. Fundraising takes volunteers and AC has applied for compound grants now for as long as I can remember - only to be denied every time. I truly hope that something can be done to make this happen. I just don't know what else can be tried.


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## Stash

Couple of comments:

Without repeating all of the many obvious reasons, a tryout where all aspiring team members have an equal chance (shooting-wise) is the only fair way of selecting a team. We can't use Nationals as Team Trials because the Worlds are not always held after Canada's Nationals. This applies to all aspects of WA archery disciplines. In some years it might work out, but in others it won't. If we do use the Nationals, then there may be years in which the team is selected almost a full year ahead of time, and that leads to people complaining about the named team members not shooting their best a year after selection, or newer archers who are just getting good not having a chance.

Compounds in the Olympics - Tim's not quite correct in thinking that recurve would have to drop out and archery would have to reapply. There's been some discussion on this subject elsewhere on AT from people more in the know than we here. The general consensus is that compound archery would first have to be included in various regional Games (Pan Am, Asian, etc) as a stepping stone to the Olympics, and steps have been made in that direction. But, as I have said a few times before, not in my lifetime.  2024 is being talked about with some believability.

In any event, this would have absolutely no bearing on Federal Sports funding for 3D teams.

It all boils down to sponsorship, and we keep coming back to my old refrain: I've not seen any significant movement in that direction in the nearly 40 years I've been involved in organized archery.


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## araz2114

If archers want to change AC... then we should change it. Simple enough to do. All any of us have to do is volunteer for the positions at AC. Maybe there are some changes needed. I really don't know. I don't expect anyone to pay my way to ANY shoot. I know some countries they do... that's an easy solution also... just immigrate to one of those countries and make their archery team. None of these problems are unsolvable. 

What we really need is someone or multiple people to get the ball rolling. Take up the reigns and steer this ship in a different or better direction. If we wait around for change... it won't happen. I am sure someone out there has access to funding from their own or know someone that could fund the costs to get Canadian archers the help they deserve. Fully funded to every event is very possible. 

I am too old and not interested enough to work on this. But I hope someone somewhere starts this process. They would be thanked by every archer in the country.

Steers try... bulls get results... BE A BULL!


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## CLASSICHUNTER

as stated governing bodies have to push this ..they have the connections ...ac and oaa and rest of the provinces ..I mentioned this in this thread previously... and as chris states bulls get results ... educate our government for funding.....


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## Stash

I think you're still missing the point, CLASSICHUNTER.

Who exactly in the "governing body", that is, which person or persons specifically, do you expect to give up their current job and time with their family to develop the expertise and actually implement contacting, lobbying, and making presentations to the provincial and national governments to convince them to fund more amateur sport?

Contacts? Does anyone here personally know Michael Chan (Ontario Minister responsible for sport) or Baljit Gosal (Canadian Minister for Sport)? Or anyone in their offices?

_*We don't have anyone to do the work.*_

If anyone is interested in becoming a "bull", here are a couple of starting points:
Ontario - http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/awards_funding/funding.shtml
Canada - http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1267810274839/1254452405938

Go.


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## Bigjono

araz2114 said:


> If archers want to change AC... then we should change it. Simple enough to do. All any of us have to do is volunteer for the positions at AC. Maybe there are some changes needed. I really don't know. I don't expect anyone to pay my way to ANY shoot. I know some countries they do... that's an easy solution also... just immigrate to one of those countries and make their archery team. None of these problems are unsolvable.
> 
> What we really need is someone or multiple people to get the ball rolling. Take up the reigns and steer this ship in a different or better direction. If we wait around for change... it won't happen. I am sure someone out there has access to funding from their own or know someone that could fund the costs to get Canadian archers the help they deserve. Fully funded to every event is very possible.
> 
> I am too old and not interested enough to work on this. But I hope someone somewhere starts this process. They would be thanked by every archer in the country.
> 
> Steers try... bulls get results... BE A BULL!


I think it's fair that if your country selects you to represent them then they foot part or all of the bill. Self funding only means you rarely get your strongest team. 
Maybe AC could speak to countries that do give funding and ask how they manage it, wouldn't that be a start.
You might also get more self funded shooters if the team was going to Ellicotville rather than Outer Mongolia or wherever else other federations go that year.


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## FiFi

Bigjono said:


> I think it's fair that if your country selects you to represent them then they foot part or all of the bill. Self funding only means you rarely get your strongest team.
> Maybe AC could speak to countries that do give funding and ask how they manage it, wouldn't that be a start.
> You might also get more self funded shooters if the team was going to Ellicotville rather than Outer Mongolia or wherever else other federations go that year.


One thing people just keep leaving out is that those Countries that do fully fund compounds have a membership base in the 30,000-50,000 range and only deal with WA events Canada has no where near that level and most likely never will with the current climate. As far as going to the same place every year and calling it a World champs sorry don't see it as one never will, as a National Championships sure


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## Stash

Bigjono said:


> I think it's fair that if your country selects you to represent them then they foot part or all of the bill. Self funding only means you rarely get your strongest team.


The obvious corollary to that philosophy would be that if a country can't afford to foot all or part of the bill, then they simply won't name a team, and nobody gets to go even if they _*can*_ afford it.


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## Bow bandit

One could call the the WA 3d the European championship as well! Not a true world championship! I doubt you will see it ever become popular here, We don't even qualify for it in the same format that the tournament is shot in! How is that an effective way to pick a team? Use IBO rules to qualify for a tournament that has a completely different format! Call it what you want but if you want a challenge go try and win a world championship 3D title in the USA! There is nothing preventing countries sending teams to the IBO world championships other than the same problem we have traveling to Europe, COST!


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## CLASSICHUNTER

stash please here u go again ..how about the people that presently hold the positions that acquire the funding now for the oaa and ac ..those are the people...and no volunteer card can be played here either ...its part of their job description ....to be pro active not reactive ....if not don`t bury your heads ...just do it...the exec reads these threads ..so time to man up or resign and let some one else do it ..it has been suggested here numerous times ...or at least get a position created and move forward ..too many it can`t be done ....wrong.. Imho


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## Stash

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> ...time to man up or resign and let some one else do it...


Seriously? These people have to be armwrestled into volunteering for the basic administrative jobs in the first place. We have 2 positions up for election at the OAA AGM this Sunday. I will be very surprised if we actually have any nominations other than the people already in these positions agreeing (possibly reluctantly) to carry on for another term.

You need to get off the "they should do something" train. There is no "they" available.


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## Hoytalpha35

Bow bandit said:


> One could call the the WA 3d the European championship as well! Not a true world championship! I doubt you will see it ever become popular here, We don't even qualify for it in the same format that the tournament is shot in! How is that an effective way to pick a team? Use IBO rules to qualify for a tournament that has a completely different format! Call it what you want but if you want a challenge go try and win a world championship 3D title in the USA! There is nothing preventing countries sending teams to the IBO world championships other than the same problem we have traveling to Europe, COST!


Out west we see mostly rineharts. At all our provincial and national shoots pretty well same equipment classes from what I can see as the IBO, no speed limit on bows. I don't see the point in promoting the WA 3D, I think its cool to be able to represent you country, it just don't make sense to me. Its cheap to travel within Europe. I think it would be nice to see a shift in direction from Archery Canada to something attainable for the average guy and represent the our country at the IBO world champtionships. Maybe a CBO affiliate of the IBO. It wouldn't be a big shift of direction for us up north equipment and target wise. The other one that gets me is Nationals, if its in the west its mostly people from Manitoba west and same if its in the East.

For $5000 grand how many IBO tournaments could you cover?


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## Bigjono

Hoytalpha35 said:


> Out west we see mostly rineharts. At all our provincial and national shoots pretty well same equipment classes from what I can see as the IBO, no speed limit on bows. I don't see the point in promoting the WA 3D, I think its cool to be able to represent you country, it just don't make sense to me. Its cheap to travel within Europe. I think it would be nice to see a shift in direction from Archery Canada to something attainable for the average guy and represent the our country at the IBO world champtionships. Maybe a CBO affiliate of the IBO. It wouldn't be a big shift of direction for us up north equipment and target wise. The other one that gets me is Nationals, if its in the west its mostly people from Manitoba west and same if its in the East.
> 
> For $5000 grand how many IBO tournaments could you cover?



Good post


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## Stash

Bow bandit said:


> There is nothing preventing countries sending teams to the IBO world championships other than the same problem we have traveling to Europe, COST!


Well, actually there is little likelihood of getting any sort of federal funding to support a team representing a country to an event that doesn't recognize the winners by nationality. Not just Canada, but any country. Not archery, but any sport. 

Clearly the WA 3D, at least in the compound category, has a less distinguished field of competitors than IBO. Nobody is arguing that it isn't so. Nevertheless, for each sport, Sport Canada and the provincial associations are linked to single international body, and any support that comes or may come in the future will always be directed towards events associated with that body. In the case of archery, it's obviously WA.

Now, I'm talking Archery Canada and federal funding. and the OAA and provincial funding _*specifically designated for teams *_representing Canada and Ontario. 

I'm NOT talking about funding from AC or OAA from general revenues - that is something that can be done to fund archers to things like the NFAA Indoor Championships (which we do at the OAA level), and presumably could do if we so chose for archers from Ontario going to the IBOs.

If that's something the general membership of the OAA wants the association to do with it's own money, then that's an issue for discussion at the AGM.


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## Xs24-7

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> stash please here u go again ..how about the people that presently hold the positions that acquire the funding now for the oaa and ac ..those are the people...and no volunteer card can be played here either ...its part of their job description ....to be pro active not reactive ....if not don`t bury your heads ...just do it...the exec reads these threads ..so time to man up or resign and let some one else do it ..it has been suggested here numerous times ...or at least get a position created and move forward ..too many it can`t be done ....wrong.. Imho


You really need to stop commenting on things you have no idea about. You continually post absolute garbage. and pass it off as truth. There is no mysterious benefactor that is going to write Archery Canada a check for 3-D just because we show up and ask. 3-D will never be taken seriously by Sport Canada because it doesnt fit their model for the sports they support. It wont get support from the COC because its not an olympic sport. It really is that easy. I cant tell it to you in any smaller/simpler words, but perhaps someone with a better understanding of your condition can explain it to you. Maybe draw you a picture or something...
I love how you call for the members of the executive to resign. Since your sooooo smart, please tell me the last time there was an election for ANY executive position with Archery Canada? I have been active for 20+ years and can remmeber one election ever. Other than that, positions are held by those foolish enough to allow themselves to be acclaimed. For a reward they get the tedium of dealing with sport beauracracy, the pleasure of dealing with people like you, and the reward of no forceable way out as no one else ever steps up. You have absolutley no understanding of sport in Canada, archery in Canada, or those who give their time in support of it. You are unqualified to comment, and the only reasonable reply to this would be an apology to the hardworking men and women you have insulted on a perpetual basis.


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## ShawnRees

Xs24-7 said:


> 3-D will never be taken seriously by Sport Canada because it doesnt fit their model for the sports they support. It wont get support from the COC because its not an olympic sport.


Couldn't use anything else from a clearly emotional response because it was just a little too insulting to us that "are unqualified to comment." Feel free to draw me a picture, if you like. You can borrow my crayons.

But, that said, the really valid point you've made IS useful to the discussion from the standpoint that nothing changes overnight. If we don't currently fit the model of a sport, how do we stay focused on making them see 3D Archery in a different light instead of bashing each other. I mean, skiing like a madman and then stopping long enough to shoot at something or vaulting over boxes, which the results seem to depend entirely upon the mood of a Russian Judge, became Olympic Sports, didn't they? I'm sure that the people wanting the funding or recognition of even being a sport had to kick the cat (no cats were injure within this post) many times more than once. It seems to me that more than a few well placed letters/emails from more than just the people that should "man up" (yes, that too was insulting) would go a long way to putting us on the radar.

Perhaps, the info that Stash provided is a good place to start, I dunno but it's worth my time to investigate.

Ontario - http://www.mtc.gov.on.ca/en/awards_f.../funding.shtml
Canada - http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1267810274839/1254452405938

Michael Chan (Ontario Minister responsible for sport) or Baljit Gosal (Canadian Minister for Sport)

Hmmmm.... Think I'm gonna do a little research then craft me a letter. Perhaps, some of you should do the same.

---
Xs24-7... No offense intended... :wink:


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## ontario3-d'r

It is very obvious that some people on this thread believe that we should be supporting the IBO. There is nothing wrong with that. Like I said before, it is a great organization. The reason that no other countries send teams to it is BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. They call themselves that, but with over 95% of the competitors coming from one country, to call themselves the World Championships is ridiculous. It is an AMERICAN organization, and a good one. The Year end Championships should be called the IBO Championships - not the World Championships. (Let the bashing begin) I think that entertaining sending a team to the IBO Championships is a good idea. We actually do have people from Ontario attend the US Target and Field events already so why not send people to the American 3D Championships as well As far as the quality of competitors at the IBO vs the WA, I definitely don't agree that the level of competition at the IBO is greater. Dave and Blake are scary good, and have been for years. They have worked there ass off to get there, and should be proud of there accomplishments. However, they travel to those events already knowing who they have to watch out for. In all fairness, they really only have to actually worry about 10 guys. The guys that shoot 390 or less, really are not competition for them. It really doesn't matter that there are 400 people in the category if 390 of them have no chance of winning. This year at the WA Worlds, You had to shoot 10 up, just to move on. That is because there were multiple National Champions there. People seem to think that because there are way more people at an event, the competition must be better. That is just not the case. Numbers of shooters does not make the tournament, quality does - period


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## CLASSICHUNTER

x 24 I know enough that if you don`t try ...then it won`t get done...all we have heard is it CAN`T BE DONE... sorry it can be done....I was involved in politics for a few years ...Guess what buddy pressure works to make changes....but it has to be initiated first .......look at snowboarding and ping pong and any of the newer sports in Olympics....and wrestling I think might be on the way out..... proper representation can make changes....and you don`t know me so leave the personal attacks out of this...and coming back about me and volunteer quotes don`t cut it...again pro active not reactive...if some one wants to give me contacts to see about funding from oaa and ac I will explore it some .....that means names and numbers ....send me a private pm with info seems there are some exec on this site who can provide some info...I hope we can at least start this process.. to bad a independent has to try and start it....


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## Bigjono

Why do you lot always talk about nothing but compounds?
RU, Trad and LB shooting at the iBO is equal or better than anywhere in the world. Ask the Aussies, South Africans, Spaniards, Brits, Kiwis, Dutch, Swedish and many others there, they will tell you.
I agree that the iBO needs more overseas shooters but then WA needs Americans to be valid. Everything has to start somewhere and sending 3D shooters to the iBO and even offering them national shirts so they are a team seems like a good start to me and that costs about $500 I would guess. Ted spends more than that on fireworks at a shoot


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## Xs24-7

3D won't be considered because of the following:
Not in Any major world "Games"
Has limited worldwide participation(number of countries represented)
Has a massive disparity in male vs. female participants.
No structured development plan for sport in Canada, or abroad(ie, no real unifying worldwide federation)
No unified rules enforced worldwide.
No advertising/corporate impetus behind it. It isn't a market driver/product seller. As much as the Olympics(and therefore world sport) are about history, performance, politics....they are also about $$$$. And without it, there will not be legs pulling your sport forward. When I reference $$$ though, I mean it's about net revenue generators, not just another "mouth to feed" that has no self sustaining way of generating $$$.

These are just the first steps, and no one will do them "for" 3-D. The participants, organizers, etc must acknowledge the need to grow in these areas. Sacrifices will need to be made. It won't happen. Field archery is much further along in addressing these issues, and it isn't even on the radar yet.


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## Bow bandit

So you are telling us that Fita generates cash here other than the money we pay into the current organizations we have? When was the last Olympic medal won for this country in archery? Do you really think that the governing bodies that shell out cash to archery Canada know anything about archery? They probably can't even name the archers they are sponsoring! I am pretty sure AC has had some help with the funding criteria!


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## rdneckhillbilly

Bow bandit said:


> So you are telling us that Fita generates cash here other than the money we pay into the current organizations we have? When was the last Olympic medal won for this country in archery? Do you really think that the governing bodies that shell out cash to archery Canada know anything about archery? They probably can't even name the archers they are sponsoring! I am pretty sure AC has had some help with the funding criteria!


Point of Information...
To my knowledge Canada has never won an Olympic medal in archery.
Lucille Lemay came close by placing 5 at the 1976 games.


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## Bow bandit

Yup that's right we have never won an Olympic medal in Archery! But we have several World champion compound and taditional recurve archers that have won on all stages! Fita, field, IBO, WA 3D. Now if I am shelling out money I would like to have my named attached to winning teams wouldn't you! I know we also have great Olympic archers at the moment but but putting all our eggs in one basket is not going to help archery grow in this country. How about promoting some of the other forms of archery instead of settling for what we have. I am pretty sure a case could be made that compound archery is viable and profitable, look at the money being handed out around the world to compound archers to win some of the events such as Vegas! I watched Levi Morgan walk away from the third leg of the IBO national triple crown with 35,000$ in hand! But 3D is not popular!


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## thunderbolt

Why is it that the same few people constantly say what needs to be done to fix 3D archery and funding for it are usually the first to say they don't have time to volunteer to help fix it. It's great that you have an idea that may work, but why wait for someone else to do the work? As in most workplaces today, if you don't like how something is being done you better also have a solution and help implement it!


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## Bow bandit

Sometimes bouncing around ideas and sharing others successes and failures helps to get the ball rolling for change. Agreed someone needs to take the reins, I am only sharing my perspective as someone who competes, others have sat on boards, all points from both side have validity to some extent, so let cut through the crap and come up with some sort of a plan! I do believe we all have one common goal here, the success of archery in Canada no matter what dicipline you choose to partake! It just seems lop sided right now and we are wasting time not devolping some of the great talent we have here while other countries are making investments to their teams and it is clearly paying off!


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## shakyshot

:happy1:


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## thunderbolt

Bouncing ideas is always a great way to get things started, but it always seems to end there! 
The same few people that always say they have the ideas on how it should be run are also the first to say they don't have time to volunteer their time to help...

This subject is getting old fast! There have been lot's of good ideas brought up here, but this isn't the place to bring them if you want results...but that has been pointed out before as well:set1_pot:


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## Bow bandit

Umm, don't we already have people in those positions? Is it hard for them to listen sometimes! If your plan is to call me out then your barking up the wrong tree pal! Next year I will send you my work practice and tournament schedule. You only have to come to the tournaments I attend! I guarantee you don't make half of them! I also have events that I attend for sponsors in the off season. You might want walk a few miles on the tournament trail before talking! For those that volunteer great, good on ya! Like I said before my point is coming from my experience as an archer who travels to shoot on a regular basis. I can promise you there is not one person in this country that has shot more 3D in the last ten years than me! And when I am ready to stop I will fill some board position but until then my focus is on shooting. Hey I don't expect it to change but does it hurt to ask? I will still do what I do and AC will let the Perkins of the world slip away! Great plan.


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## Bow bandit

Hey I just had a laugh! Just think about my email to sport Canada for funding of compound archers! Do you guys really want that?


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## FiFi

Some sort of threat there Blake?? do you need the email address for Sport Canada I am sure we could find you a contact if needed, I mean like nobody ever has thought of writing Sport Canada about extending funding to compounds before


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## Bow bandit

I am sure they have! Sorry that one went way over your head!


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## Bow bandit

What's the matter? Afraid someone might do something you couldn't! Get over yourself!


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## Bow bandit

Funny how we are told there is no money available for compounds! How about quest for gold! Seems to be a fair amount of cash being shelled out to compound archers there! For what? one European tournament a year! Great investment there!


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## Stash

Quest for Gold is not for paying for a trip to an event. It's to help with athlete training.


> Program Description
> 
> The Quest for Gold Program was established to provide additional support to athletes from Ontario and to increase the performance and number of Ontario athletes competing at the highest national and international levels, thereby contributing to the improved performance of Canada at international competitions.
> 
> Specific objectives of the program are:
> 
> To help athletes continue their pursuit of athletic excellence at the highest levels of national and international competition;
> To encourage athletes to stay in Ontario to live and train;
> To compensate athletes for earnings lost while training;
> To enable athletes to successfully pursue excellence in sport while fulfilling their educational goals;
> To increase athlete access to high performance coaching; and
> To enhance training and competitive opportunities available to athletes.


It's not geared towards or away from any specific sport or discipline. It's awarded (within parameters set by the provincial government) at the discretion of each provincial sports body. Note the intent: _*thereby contributing to the improved performance of Canada at international competitions.*_

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Dietmar and Crispin both have benefited from the QfG program. Maybe Chris Perkins as well? Money well spent if it helped them in any way to be able to continue to afford to train.


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## ShawnRees

Stash said:


> Quest for Gold is not for paying for a trip to an event. It's to help with athlete training.
> 
> It's not geared towards or away from any specific sport or discipline. It's awarded (within parameters set by the provincial government) at the discretion of each provincial sports body. Note the intent: _*thereby contributing to the improved performance of Canada at international competitions.*_
> 
> I'm not 100% sure, but I think Dietmar and Crispin both have benefited from the QfG program. Maybe Chris Perkins as well? Money well spent if it helped them in any way to be able to continue to afford to train.



I would suggest that a huge part of an athletes training at any skill level of a sport is competition within the arena of choice or potential capability. There is a whole lot of difference between competing at a national or international event in regard to pressures and stress that needs to be worked into their training. And, yes, each tournament is also a training experience. If we want better representation and/or results, we, as in a country with public monies available, should be ensuring that an athlete that can compete at a national level, with the intent to compete internationally, be there by making it a government paid job to be part of a "national team."

We as a country need to decide that we want this and make noise, lots and lots of noise. And, not just a few certain people "in the right positions," EVERYBODY, IN ANY WAY THAT THEY CAN. *If, I recall correctly*, Dietmar made a comment a number of years ago, that made it into the news, about the lack of funding from the government for our sport and all "WE" could do was bash the **** out of him for being ungrateful. 

Talk about it all you want because someone MIGHT hear it and that's a good thing. Write about it all you want because someone MIGHT read about it, and that's a good thing too. The point is CHANGE DOESN'T COME WITHOUT MAKING NOISE.


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## CaptainT

Stash said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I think Dietmar and Crispin both have benefited from the QfG program. Maybe Chris Perkins as well? Money well spent if it helped them in any way to be able to continue to afford to train.


Crispin does not qualify because he is Nationally Carded (Sport Canada - Recurve only as per SC criteria). Perkins and Dietmar have both received funding through Quest for Gold. The only reason compound is included in Quest for Gold is because it has been included in the Canada Winter Games (Gov' of Ontario criteria).


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## ShawnRees

CaptainT said:


> Crispin does not qualify because he is Nationally Carded (Sport Canada - Recurve only as per SC criteria).



Rough translation... support his efforts to help him get there but nothing to keep him there. Don't know about anyone else but I'm not okay with that.


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## CaptainT

ShawnRees said:


> Rough translation... support his efforts to help him get there but nothing to keep him there. Don't know about anyone else but I'm not okay with that.


Rough translation is share the money. The OAA implemented this with travel teams a couple years ago too. If you are nationally or provincially carded you won't qualify for an OAA travel team so that other's get a chance to try the events.


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## Bow bandit

Sounds great but all of the qualification for this is FITA based! Who made up the rules? Not trying to say they are not great archers they are some of the best out there but could one card not be shared? I know the rules have been manipulated to allow more funding for males than females this year. Was the intent of the cards to help develop Amature athletes? The province has been giving it to paid pros for years! Did we send our strongest team to Turkey this year? Maybe! Or maybe not, the three compound archers that went are amazing archers but similarily they are all provincially carded and my have been able to go because they could afford the trip across Canada to qualify and then pay out of pocket to fly to turkey! Are we sure this is the fairest way to pick our teams. Look at the USA they have a very Deep talent pool and have very different looking teams all the time.


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## Bow bandit

Would it not be a better program to have a provincial qualifier say on a weekend in each province to find the strongest archers in each province, then send the top 3 from each province to compete at a central location, then reorganize some of the card funding to send those three to compete at the qualifier. It's obvious funding helps look at the team we sent for our country, all provincially carded!


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## ShawnRees

CaptainT said:


> Rough translation is share the money. The OAA implemented this with travel teams a couple years ago too. If you are nationally or provincially carded you won't qualify for an OAA travel team so that other's get a chance to try the events.



Share the money is a great concept and one that I happen to agree with but it does put us, as a nation, into a position of sending only those that either have enough corporate sponsorship (which I doubt exists at enough of a level worth mentioning) or can personally afford to finance their desire to represent our sport and country.

Also, I think that available monies should be allocated based upon the sport as a whole not just a specific division. I'd be curious to know how many OAA members are 3d shooters, vs. Field, vs. FITA. If, the OAA Membership is made of these categories, and I will assume they are, then the money should be divided accordingly. And, perhaps it is but I don't know that for sure.

Does anyone know if any of the 3d team recently received financial assistance to head to Italy to represent us? If so, kudos. If not, shame.


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## Bow bandit

Oh we already travelled down that road Shawn and they did not like the suggestion! Does anyone know if compound archery is to be included in the Pan am Games coming up in 2015?


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## ShawnRees

:BangHead: 

Oh... my bad.


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## CaptainT

ShawnRees said:


> Share the money is a great concept and one that I happen to agree with but it does put us, as a nation, into a position of sending only those that either have enough corporate sponsorship (which I doubt exists at enough of a level worth mentioning) or can personally afford to finance their desire to represent our sport and country.
> 
> Also, I think that available monies should be allocated based upon the sport as a whole not just a specific division. I'd be curious to know how many OAA members are 3d shooters, vs. Field, vs. FITA. If, the OAA Membership is made of these categories, and I will assume they are, then the money should be divided accordingly. And, perhaps it is but I don't know that for sure.
> 
> Does anyone know if any of the 3d team recently received financial assistance to head to Italy to represent us? If so, kudos. If not, shame.


The breakdown of memberships is going to be presented at the AGM on Sunday as has been stated in a previous post.

This is an old article but the funding model has stayed the same. Indoor, 3D and target are funded equally. https://www.oaa-archery.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=241&Itemid=246

Quest for Gold is a government assistance fund. The OAA is limited in how it can change the qualification criteria, but it would be a good question for the Quest for Gold Committee at the AGM.

The Italy event was handled by Archery Canada. Would be a question for them but I'm guessing not


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## ShawnRees

Unfortunately, I cannot make the AGM because I'm being made to attend a mandatory HR meeting with the Town of Newmarket or I lose my archery program over there. If, I had my choice, I'd be a the AGM so I can ask the questions. But, that's not going to stop me from crafting a few letters. 

Need to make people aware, then seek change.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

actually on your membership this year was a section about your personal shooting style .. which I initiated with the help of adam the former president.with e-mails and discussions here on at ..but some one incorporated a trad class on questionnaire .. which makes no sense as it should of been fita.... field and 3-d and all of the above... as all types of bows are covered by different classes.. I thank Adam for doing such a good job of initiating ... I have a story about the results which I will reveal later sometime...My concern was monies should be distributed according ... oh crap stash I actually moved forward on this so I guess I can say we moved forward...and can produce figures to use to start the ball rolling to get funding for 3-d ...lol as long as figures are not tainted by mike duffy lol lol lol and I presented this at last years agm as well...


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## hoody123

a) This is down right humourous. (Though no doubt frustrating for some that are genuinely trying to convey the way of things.)
b) 3D is NEVER going to see wide enough appeal that it will receive funding of consequence, sorry if that upsets you, it's just the way it is.
c) To my mind and in my experience <MOST> top archers typically gravitate towards the "target" end of the spectrum. I think anyone suggesting that Chris/Andrew/Dietmar wouldn't be exceptionally competitive (or haven't been) is either new enough to have not seem them shoot those venues or are simply deluding themselves. I think it's a natural progression, 3D is a great deal of fun, and it's very competitive, but there are really no such thing as "records". Every course is different, and targets are never the same, so no two scores from different events can ever be compared. FITA, IFAA and "target" in general, have established standards and "competition" becomes possible.


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## Stash

hoody123 said:


> ...Every course is different, and targets are never the same, so no two scores from different events can ever be compared.


Yeah, that's why golf has never really caught on...


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## hoody123

Stan, you're not truly try to compare the popularity of golf with that of 3D archery are you?


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## Stash

No, of course not.

I agree that 3D will never catch on internationally to the level it is in the US, but that wasn't one of the reasons.

It has much more to do with the fact that in many areas of the world, bowhunting is illegal and/or _perceived as_ brutal, and 3D is too much of a simulation of that.


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## Bigjono

Stash said:


> No, of course not.
> 
> I agree that 3D will never catch on internationally to the level it is in the US, but that wasn't one of the reasons.
> 
> It has much more to do with the fact that in many areas of the world, bowhunting is illegal and/or _perceived as_ brutal, and 3D is too much of a simulation of that.


Really????
Try going to the UK. 160-170 shooters every Sunday, pre book pre pay to ensure you get in, very often no pay on the day slots left, 700 at national 3D champs (plus a waiting list) and tons of kids and families shooting. Also targets from 10yd to 100yd and all from a country with no bow hunting.


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## Bow bandit

Nobody is questioning the talent level of Perkins, Trillus and Fagan, just they way money is being allocated and put into one basket, secondly the money has been shuffled around and some of the money allocated for female archers was given to a male! Do you not feel it would be right to advertise this! Another open spot changes the game a little. Seems like insider info and looks shady! Just so the powers that be can get their preferred team. It is bad optics anyway you slice it! The last AGM I ever we to was a while ago and I had to sit there and look at a 30,000$ miscellaneous fund on the budget for the year. When I Asked about a more detailed break Down the powers at be at the time threw a fit! I wonder why? For an organization that has very little funding that is or was a pretty high amount of cash for staples, stamps and paper!! So forgive me if my trust level is a little on the low side!


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## rdneckhillbilly

Page 5!!!
I do not ever recall seeing a 5 page thread in the Canadian section. Speaks volumes.
Obviously this is an important topic and you can see that all parties have a passion for archery.


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## Bow bandit

As for Fita records they should only count at major world events! With more unbiased judges and not shot in your preferred lane or home club or private range out of the wind! Post the score when it counts! Just my opinion! Don't get mad! These types of courses also get used for ranking! Seems fair for the guys and gals that don't have these priveges!!!


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## shakyshot

rdneckhillbilly said:


> Page 5!!!
> I do not ever recall seeing a 5 page thread in the Canadian section. Speaks volumes.
> Obviously this is an important topic and you can see that all parties have a passion for archery.


Yes page 5

:deadhorse

About every 6 months we get this on here.
Try typing to the "powers that be" to push you points.
Not gonna get anything done this way.
Just sayin


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## Jbsendnit

I havent been in the game for very long so excuse my ignorance..

Why doesn't the oaa get someone on board who's job is to secure corporate funding.. There's so much money out there to be had if went about the right way.. I feel like private funding is the only chance archery has in becoming how we all want it to be.. I heard government funding is being cut annually these days so its only going downhill..


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## Bigjono

Are there no bow manufacturers or arrow manufacturers or target manufacturers that would sponsor events? 
I agree, create a position for someone who's role is to secure sponsorship and funding, that's a great idea.


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## FiFi

Bigjono said:


> Are there no bow manufacturers or arrow manufacturers or target manufacturers that would sponsor events?
> I agree, create a position for someone who's role is to secure sponsorship and funding, that's a great idea.


Both the OAA and AC have had people in these positions, the issue is that they don't last and securing stable sponsors is very fluid at best so volunteers burn out very fast. I did this job back when I was OAA President and secured thousands of dollars that was funnelled solely for the 3D champs, we handed out some very large checks often could you get $500 for a 4th place finish, when I stopped doing it nobody filled the job and fell by the wayside. Getting sponsors is relatively easy as the OAA has a great track record but keeping them is an ongoing issue that requires constant attention.......which boils down to who's going to do it.....again


Sean


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## hoody123

FiFi said:


> Both the OAA and AC have had people in these positions, the issue is that they don't last and securing stable sponsors is very fluid at best so volunteers burn out very fast. I did this job back when I was OAA President and secured thousands of dollars that was funnelled solely for the 3D champs, we handed out some very large checks often could you get $500 for a 4th place finish, when I stopped doing it nobody filled the job and fell by the wayside. Getting sponsors is relatively easy as the OAA has a great track record but keeping them is an ongoing issue that requires constant attention.......which boils down to who's going to do it.....again
> 
> 
> Sean


I remember those days Sean. One of the big ones was at York County, you guys ran simultaneous to the York 3D Classic, that was a big event that year. I decided to enter the 3D classic because it was a much bigger (numbers wise) shoot, I won it and got $200, then I heard how much the OAA one paid and kicked myself for not entering the OAA version. Although, Jo won her event too, so we came home with $400 that day.

Ah the good old days when there were vendor tents both there and at Pioneer. The Eastern Zone had 120+ at EVERY shoot and open had 20+ people every time. Back then Linda tracked all that stuff then we had the year end supper/celebration. Certainly was the peak of 3D in Ontario.


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## crkelly

FiFi said:


> Both the OAA and AC have had people in these positions, the issue is that they don't last and securing stable sponsors is very fluid at best so volunteers burn out very fast. I did this job back when I was OAA President and secured thousands of dollars that was funnelled solely for the 3D champs, we handed out some very large checks often could you get $500 for a 4th place finish, when I stopped doing it nobody filled the job and fell by the wayside. Getting sponsors is relatively easy as the OAA has a great track record but keeping them is an ongoing issue that requires constant attention.......which boils down to who's going to do it.....agai
> 
> Sean


Well done Sean it goes to show it can be done.


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## FiFi

crkelly said:


> Well done Sean it goes to show it can be done.


Certainly it can be done, it takes will power and commitment, I should dig up all the proposed programmes that we looked at, some where very good but costly to implement, some of the class awards we looked at had great potential to be used as a ranking system for Ontario but again costly and required a dedicated person to strictly run it. Today everyone is to busy to be bothered so few volunteers get overloaded and burnt out, it seems to be a never ending cycle


Sean


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## Jbsendnit

crkelly said:


> Well done Sean it goes to show it can be done.



This is what needs to happen, it's amazing how many people talk about promoting archery and wanting it to grow but no one will step up and put the work in. I'm very involved in the corporate world and have many family friends with plenty of money. Every single one of them give very large amounts of money to random organizations simply because it's good PR and a tax write off. If events/traveling teams where put together with ties to charity's and the representation of canada at a national level, insane amounts of money could be raised by the right people. I'm not talking about bow manufacturers or archery shops, I'm talking 100 million $ company's that look for places to give money. It's just a matter of putting together the right strategy for the OAA to give back. Vague example would be by getting underprivileged kids an opportunity to go to an archery camp ect. Just give these corporations a good moral reason to donate and the money will pour in.

I don't know much about the structure of the OAA but if there are people being paid a salary to run it, those people better be trying to grow archery and not just working with government grants, that's such a slacker way to get by.. Sounds like the OAA currently is more of a social thing than a dedicated group of people with the common goal of growing archery to be all that it can be. In today's world the OAA needs to be a buisness and ran as such. Volunteering only gets the bare minimum done...


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## Jbsendnit

That quote diddnt work at all...


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## FiFi

Jbsendnit said:


> This is what needs to happen, it's amazing how many people talk about promoting archery and wanting it to grow but no one will step up and put the work in. I'm very involved in the corporate world and have many family friends with plenty of money. Every single one of them give very large amounts of money to random organizations simply because it's good PR and a tax write off. If events/traveling teams where put together with ties to charity's and the representation of canada at a national level, insane amounts of money could be raised by the right people. I'm not talking about bow manufacturers or archery shops, I'm talking 100 million $ company's that look for places to give money. It's just a matter of putting together the right strategy for the OAA to give back. Vague example would be by getting underprivileged kids an opportunity to go to an archery camp ect. Just give these corporations a good moral reason to donate and the money will pour in.
> 
> I don't know much about the structure of the OAA but if there are people being paid a salary to run it, those people better be trying to grow archery and not just working with government grants, that's such a slacker way to get by.. Sounds like the OAA currently is more of a social thing than a dedicated group of people with the common goal of growing archery to be all that it can be. In today's world the OAA needs to be a buisness and ran as such. Volunteering only gets the bare minimum done...


The OAA has a part time Exec director for day to day operation, the rest is Volunteer, these volunteer's give just about everything they have for the betterment of archery as a whole, for their efforts they get belittled, told to do more, get accused of back room dealings, cheating etc, you need only look back a few posts to see that, but they still continue to volunteer. For the OAA to use a business platform we would need a lot more than 1000-1500 members we have now. We seem to be occupied with eating our own right now

Sean


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## Bigjono

1500 members, really??? How many people shoot target, field and 3D in Ontario then, I'm guessing it's more than that so the question is why don't people join. I will be upfront and honest, I haven't joined since 2009 because for 3D the OAA doesn't offer me what I need. I tend to shoot LB and RU in the iBO, OAA has no LB class and different RU rules so I stayed away. It wasn't personal against anyone or anything, just me spending my dollars wisely.


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## Jbsendnit

I understand... Its one thing to know what to do its another to actually do it.. I could easily raise 100k annually given carte blanche but i just dont have the time at 27 years old and starting a career...and im sure 99.9% of people are the same, they would love for certain things to be done, but by someone else... 

when i retire i'll make archery bigger than nascar


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## Stash

Yes, there's a world of difference between someone who _*can*_ do something and someone who _*will*_ do something.

I'm off to the AGM in an hour in the hopes that there's one of those .1%ers there this year.


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## CaptainT

Jbsendnit said:


> I understand... Its one thing to know what to do its another to actually do it.. I could easily raise 100k annually given carte blanche but i just dont have the time at 27 years old and starting a career...and im sure 99.9% of people are the same, they would love for certain things to be done, but by someone else...


By 27 I had been president for 4 years, a zone director for 4 years before that, and had accomplished what I had said I would when I was initially elected. By 27 I was well burned out. By 30 I was one of 3 (Sean, correct me if I'm wrong) people who had done the full 3 years as president, and actually made a difference. If you are truly interested in making a difference there are more than enough ways to do it no matter how old you are. Most are just content with complaining and having things stay the same.

I'm now somewhat recovered and even thinking about shooting. Pretty sure I'll be sticking to the field course though. Not as much complaining there.


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## wanemann

"Not as much complaining there. "

yikess captain, you may be bordering the non professional line if not on it.


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## araz2114

You asked for it... here is the membership break down. Just to clarify... the numbers for all disciplines are "only" plus everything with the discipline in the description. eg, 3D total is 69+17+3+52+8 for a total of 149. Target total is 177+17+52+56+6 for a total of 308. Field total is 3+17+3+56 for a total of 79. Traditional is 14+8+6 for a total of 28.

It was talked about having the survey attached to the Online membership application/renewal. The Webmaster will work on this.

There was only 460 of the 1066 members that replied to the survey.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

how did they get bow style don`t remember that part on membership form and chris when I add figures some one said 466 replied why is there an overage in responses first 2 figures cover the 466 then it is over by about 100...again something simple turned into a numbers game again should of been as I presented ...fita... field ...3d... or combination of the above...one box checked only per registrant...just my opinion and poor showing on members part on completion of form..imho oh well its a start....


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## rockin_johny

captaint said:


> by 27 i had been president for 4 years, a zone director for 4 years before that, and had accomplished what i had said i would when i was initially elected. By 27 i was well burned out. By 30 i was one of 3 (sean, correct me if i'm wrong) people who had done the full 3 years as president, and actually made a difference. If you are truly interested in making a difference there are more than enough ways to do it no matter how old you are. Most are just content with complaining and having things stay the same.
> 
> I'm now somewhat recovered and even thinking about shooting. Pretty sure i'll be sticking to the field course though. Not as much complaining there.


toot toot!!


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## doc2931

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> how did they get bow style don`t remember that part on membership form and chris when I add figures some one said 466 replied why is there an overage in responses first 2 figures cover the 466 then it is over by about 100...again something simple turned into a numbers game again should of been as I presented ...fita... field ...3d... or combination of the above...one box checked only per registrant...just my opinion and poor showing on members part on completion of form..imho oh well its a start....


Ted, you are right the number of responders is not very high, but this is not totally because of the shooters. The survey was sent out to all members in their renewal packages but only those that sent in a paper renewal filled in the survey. The survey was not available on the website when members paid online. This will be remedied this year, along with a change to the way in which questions are asked to better reflect the archery community in Ontario.

As for the numbers adding up, I am not sure where your math came from:

Shooting Location: 151 + 65 + 71 + 173 = *460*
33% + 14% + 15% + 38% = *100%* (percentages are rounded to the nearest whole number)

Equipment: 212 + 172 + 21 + 3 + 5 + 17 + 11 +12 +1 +6 = *460*

Discipline: 69 + 177 + 3 + 14 + 17 + 3 + 52 + 8 + 56 + 6 + 31 +2 + 20 +2 = *460*

So the numbers are exactly as presented from the data that was gathered from the survey, raw data can be made available to anyone that would like to see it. The survey reflects data taken up until the end of the Tournament Season which is a proper reflection of the OAA members in Ontario. The OAA membership is fluid throughout the year and does not all come in at a single point in time many memberships come in at each Provincial Championships.

Michael Martin
OAA President


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## meleemark

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> how did they get bow style don`t remember that part on membership form and chris when I add figures some one said 466 replied why is there an overage in responses first 2 figures cover the 466 then it is over by about 100...again something simple turned into a numbers game again should of been as I presented ...fita... field ...3d... or combination of the above...one box checked only per registrant...just my opinion and poor showing on members part on completion of form..imho oh well its a start....


Hey there,

Due to the individuals indicating on the survey that they shoot multiple disciplines, adding up the numbers that Chris tallied will give a number greater then the 460 respondents, as you pointed out. For instance 52 individuals indicated that they shot both 3D and target. In Chris' breakdown those are included in both the 3D and target numbers, effectively doubling counting (it's still a valid metric, as long as everyone understands what is being measured.)

A percentage of the surveyed members that have indicated that they shoot a particular discipline may be more inline with what you are looking for and are as follows:

39.13% of the 460 members responded that they shot 3D.
73.70% of the 460 members responded that they shot target.
23.91% of the 460 members responded that they shot field.
12.83% of the 460 members responded that they shot traditional.


I agree that the survey needs to be paired down to make it easier to complete and remove the perception that anyone might have around a "numbers game." 

Cheers,
Mark Redmond
V.P. of Marketing, OAA


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## FiFi

CaptainT said:


> By 27 I had been president for 4 years, a zone director for 4 years before that, and had accomplished what I had said I would when I was initially elected. By 27 I was well burned out. By 30 I was one of 3 (Sean, correct me if I'm wrong) people who had done the full 3 years as president, and actually made a difference. If you are truly interested in making a difference there are more than enough ways to do it no matter how old you are. Most are just content with complaining and having things stay the same.
> 
> I'm now somewhat recovered and even thinking about shooting. Pretty sure I'll be sticking to the field course though. Not as much complaining there.




Yes Adam only 3 have served the full 3 terms as OAA President that is 6 years, as I too was in my early 20's when I was OAA President ,certainly hard to watch your shooting go into a death spiral but have no regrets either. the template is inplace and can be worked with if people would step to the plate when needed


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## DssBB

I am just curious why Traditional is listed as a discipline? Wouldn't most shooting traditional equipment be shooting 3D or one of the other two disciplines?


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## FiFi

DssBB said:


> I am just curious why Traditional is listed as a discipline? Wouldn't most shooting traditional equipment be shooting 3D or one of the other two disciplines?


Not really any different than asking for people that shot compound, recurve, xbow etc. its information that maybe the new marketing guy can use.


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## CLASSICHUNTER

Mike just a suggestion try the kiss method like I suggested ..Plus what is this 177 +73 +2+33+ etc etc etc is this different figures received at different times and thanks for response to low survey participation ...its a start but for marketing purposes 4 question responses only needed ...if not long winded and like the city I live in let me redo these figures for you ...ask the politicians ...man they could make 466 look like 4660 lol lol thanks again...


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## Bigjono

FiFi said:


> Not really any different than asking for people that shot compound, recurve, xbow etc. its information that maybe the new marketing guy can use.


I couldn't figure that one out either. Target, Field and 3D are all competition types, Traditional is anything anyone wants it to be but it doesn't mean a shooting discipline. It should perhaps be included under the heading if bow type used or class you shoot in etc.
My reading of those figures is that there is a decent number of target guys here. Perhaps they need to grow a pair and try unmarked 3D too


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## DssBB

FiFi said:


> Not really any different than asking for people that shot compound, recurve, xbow etc. its information that maybe the new marketing guy can use.


As bigjono and myself mentioned, Traditional is a type of equipment used and could be used for all 3 disciplines, 3D, field and fita so the 12.83% is not a true value. The new marketing guy will be wondering the same thing.


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## FiFi

DssBB said:


> As bigjono and myself mentioned, Traditional is a type of equipment used and could be used for all 3 disciplines, 3D, field and fita so the 12.83% is not a true value. The new marketing guy will be wondering the same thing.


not seeing the big deal here, the chart simply shows where Trad is being used, it seems like the new Marketing guy has it under control. With less then 50% responding it will be little more than a baseline to look at, aswell with it going on the web for membership renewal it may produce better results


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## araz2114

Bigjono said:


> I couldn't figure that one out either. Target, Field and 3D are all competition types, Traditional is anything anyone wants it to be but it doesn't mean a shooting discipline. It should perhaps be included under the heading if bow type used or class you shoot in etc.
> My reading of those figures is that there is a decent number of target guys here. Perhaps they need to grow a pair and try unmarked 3D too


Begin Rant.

I don't see how "growing a pair" has anything to do with shooting 3D. This shouldn't be the "Ontario Association of 3D shooters" or Ontario Association of Outdoor Target Shooters" or "Ontario Association of Field shooters" IT IS THE "ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF ARCHERS" That means ARCHERY... ALL ARCHERY... If you choose to shoot 3D... great! If you choose to shoot Field... great! If you choose to shoot Target... great. I really can't figure out why some people want to separate the sport of ARCHERY.. I really can't. That's like saying if you shoot a bow you should grow a pair and hunt with a bow, because that is what it was meant for in the beginning... Why can't people just accept archers as archers. I shoot everything... always have... Most people only have so much money in the bank and time available... so if they want to shoot field, or 3D, or target, or traditional, or olympic recurve, or bowhunter compound, or barebow, only... so be it. It is very hard to be great at every type of archery... but a lot of us can be competent and have fun shooting any and all types of archery. 

If you ride a bicycle, I don't care if you are a road bike, freestyle, BMX, Downhiller or whatever... just ride what makes you happy.

If this sport is EVER going to grow some people need to stop dividing and conquering it! Bring it all together and we will finally have something to be proud of!!!

Rant over

Chris


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## Stash

There's no way to a get complete, accurate representation of the entire OAA's membership equipment and discipline preferences without interviewing every member and getting a complete history of what equipment they shoot in what competition. You might get someone (like me, for example) who shoots primarily compound for target/field/indoor, but also shoots a bit of trad 3D. How do you enter that into a simple survey, and give the proper weighting to each aspect? 

A well thought out survey will have to incorporate a weighing factor to produce the maximum in meaningful results, but not be too lengthy or complicated as to cause people to give up on answering it.

I'm thinking something like this:

*Circle the %-age which best tells how much of your competition archery is done with this type of equipment (should add to 100%)*
Compound 0 20 40 60 80 100
Recurve 0 20 40 60 80 100
Traditional 0 20 40 60 80 100
Crossbow 0 20 40 60 80 100

*For each equipment class you use, circle the %-age which best tells how much of your competition archery is in this discipline*
*Compound* 
Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
3D 0 20 40 60 80 100
*Recurve*
Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
3D 0 20 40 60 80 100
*Traditional*
Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
3D 0 20 40 60 80 100
*Crossbow*
Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
3D 0 20 40 60 80 100

Please don't pick on the details of this - it's just a rough idea. But this level of information would be analyzable without too much trouble, and give a useful understanding of what people who compete in Ontario like to do.


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## Bigjono

araz2114 said:


> Begin Rant.
> 
> I don't see how "growing a pair" has anything to do with shooting 3D. This shouldn't be the "Ontario Association of 3D shooters" or Ontario Association of Outdoor Target Shooters" or "Ontario Association of Field shooters" IT IS THE "ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF ARCHERS" That means ARCHERY... ALL ARCHERY... If you choose to shoot 3D... great! If you choose to shoot Field... great! If you choose to shoot Target... great. I really can't figure out why some people want to separate the sport of ARCHERY.. I really can't. That's like saying if you shoot a bow you should grow a pair and hunt with a bow, because that is what it was meant for in the beginning... Why can't people just accept archers as archers. I shoot everything... always have... Most people only have so much money in the bank and time available... so if they want to shoot field, or 3D, or target, or traditional, or olympic recurve, or bowhunter compound, or barebow, only... so be it. It is very hard to be great at every type of archery... but a lot of us can be competent and have fun shooting any and all types of archery.
> 
> If you ride a bicycle, I don't care if you are a road bike, freestyle, BMX, Downhiller or whatever... just ride what makes you happy.
> 
> If this sport is EVER going to grow some people need to stop dividing and conquering it! Bring it all together and we will finally have something to be proud of!!!
> 
> Rant over
> 
> Chris


Geez, it was tongue in cheek, get over yourself. Mind you, having said that, I don't see many fully rigged up recurves shooting 3D over here. Shame as its a great class elsewhere.


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## Bigjono

Stash said:


> There's no way to a get complete, accurate representation of the entire OAA's membership equipment and discipline preferences without interviewing every member and getting a complete history of what equipment they shoot in what competition. You might get someone (like me, for example) who shoots primarily compound for target/field/indoor, but also shoots a bit of trad 3D. How do you enter that into a simple survey, and give the proper weighting to each aspect?
> 
> A well thought out survey will have to incorporate a weighing factor to produce the maximum in meaningful results, but not be too lengthy or complicated as to cause people to give up on answering it.
> 
> I'm thinking something like this:
> 
> *Circle the %-age which best tells how much of your competition archery is done with this type of equipment (should add to 100%)*
> Compound 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Recurve 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Traditional 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Crossbow 0 20 40 60 80 100
> 
> *For each equipment class you use, circle the %-age which best tells how much of your competition archery is in this discipline*
> *Compound*
> Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
> 3D 0 20 40 60 80 100
> *Recurve*
> Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
> 3D 0 20 40 60 80 100
> *Traditional*
> Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
> 3D 0 20 40 60 80 100
> *Crossbow*
> Indoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Outdoor target 0 20 40 60 80 100
> Field 0 20 40 60 80 100
> 3D 0 20 40 60 80 100
> 
> Please don't pick on the details of this - it's just a rough idea. But this level of information would be analyzable without too much trouble, and give a useful understanding of what people who compete in Ontario like to do.


Looks good to me.


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## shakyshot

araz2114 said:


> Begin Rant.
> 
> I don't see how "growing a pair" has anything to do with shooting 3D. This shouldn't be the "Ontario Association of 3D shooters" or Ontario Association of Outdoor Target Shooters" or "Ontario Association of Field shooters" IT IS THE "ONTARIO ASSOCIATION OF ARCHERS" That means ARCHERY... ALL ARCHERY... If you choose to shoot 3D... great! If you choose to shoot Field... great! If you choose to shoot Target... great. I really can't figure out why some people want to separate the sport of ARCHERY.. I really can't. That's like saying if you shoot a bow you should grow a pair and hunt with a bow, because that is what it was meant for in the beginning... Why can't people just accept archers as archers. I shoot everything... always have... Most people only have so much money in the bank and time available... so if they want to shoot field, or 3D, or target, or traditional, or olympic recurve, or bowhunter compound, or barebow, only... so be it. It is very hard to be great at every type of archery... but a lot of us can be competent and have fun shooting any and all types of archery.
> 
> If you ride a bicycle, I don't care if you are a road bike, freestyle, BMX, Downhiller or whatever... just ride what makes you happy.
> 
> If this sport is EVER going to grow some people need to stop dividing and conquering it! Bring it all together and we will finally have something to be proud of!!!
> 
> Rant over
> 
> Chris


Agreed


----------

