# Input needed on PSE Nova



## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Well, I tried to do a search for this and didn't turn up much, so please excuse me if this is an overly naive question...

I'm pretty new to archery and about a year ago I got set up at cabela's with this package deal with a pse Nova "extreme" and some cabelas carbon arrows. It was a cheap way to get into the sport and I had no idea what I was looking at anyway. So the bow, which seems to be a custom package put together for cabelas (can we say liquidating old parts inventory?) claims an IBO speed of 293 fps.

A year later the bow is set up as:

30" draw length
70 lb draw weight
trophy taker shakey hunter drop rest
string leaches
peep sight

Otherwise it's still stock. I'm shooting 30inch cabelas carbon hunter arrows splined for 70 lbs (10 grains/inch) and have 100 grain points on them. 

Groups are great, generally within a few inches at 20 yards for most, with the occasional drifter that seems to contact my rest - still some tweaking there. However, it chrono's at about 230 fps pretty consistently. The arrows are about 430 grains. So either there's something wrong or the 293 fps IBO rating is bogus. Using the calculators I've seen links to, it looks like 230fps would translate into about a 265 fps IBO rating which I think is probably pretty believable with that bow. I was just wondering if anyone else had some thoughts or maybe experience with this bow and could comment?


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## Bellows1 (Oct 19, 2003)

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Yeah the speed is not what they claim, but they shoot them at Max draw, lightest arrow, nothing on the the string.

If you calculate the time bifference between 230fps and 290fps at 20 yards, you'll understand why it doesn't matter much. 

Good luck.

Bill


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## sweet old bill (Apr 21, 2003)

so what your problem ? You got a good price for a bow, it shoot good groups, but you ssay it is not that fast...well when they test them, they do not have even nock sets on the string, no silencers, and the ligest possible arrow....so yes you will not get there best speed. But you now have a good forgiving hunting bow...so be thankfull...


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Hmmmm, so I must not have come across as I was intending. I guess I'm not *****ing about the bow - it's a sub $200 bow and for the money it does a pretty kick butt job. However, with it shooting that "slow" my sight picture is limiting me to about a 30-40 yard spread. With the top pin set at 20 yards and the sight set up with that as high as it can go, the bottom pin only can move down to get me to 50-60 yards. I'm not worried about that for hunting at this stage of my experience, but I do like to target shoot longer distances. So far I'm looking for shots inside 30 yards because I'm not confident in my shooting ability in the field vs the range. Anyway....

I guess what I was intending is that if the bow really was a 293 fps IBO bow, with that setup I'd expect it to be shooting quite a bit faster (250-260 ish?) So either I have something messed up or the IBO rating is fudged. If someone could say, "that's not right with that bow maybe you should look at this and this and this..." that's great. If the answer is "the IBO numbers are BS", that fine too because I bought a cheap entry level bow that would just shoot well and help me develop my skills and get my through my first bowhunting season.

The point is, if these bows do typically shoot a little faster I'd like to do something about it. If this is normal then that's fine.  I was just looking for experienced opinions.


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

Sent you a PM


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## mg3320 (Aug 3, 2004)

*Maybe This Will Help*

JC, speed and forgiveness are often the enemies of eachother, specifically in entry level bows. The Nova is a good platform. PSE makes tough glass limbs and usually keeps their axle to axle lengths and brace heights on the forgiving side.

As you become more experienced you'll find there are little ways to tweak additional speed out of a certain bow. Probably the best way is to replace the stock string and cables with a thinner material. Some others are to shorten or lighten your arrows, change to a drop away rest, replace the stock cable guard or slide, etc. Simply said, I would recommend that if you are truly a beginner not to get wrapped up in a "speed quest".

Instead, continue to concentrate on your form, your accuracy and how to make shots in less than perfect conditions (like the kind you'll encounter 20 feet up a tree on a cold day).

I have been bowhunting for over 20 years....and I have yet been forced to take over a 40 yard shot at anything in the Midwest. I shoot a Hoyt Ultratec, not because its exceedingly fast, but because it allows me to make shots when my form or hunting situation is less than perfect. It sounds like your Nova will do the same. Stick with it, and don't worry about the speed. Arrow placement and sharp broadheads are what kill game. Good luck this season.


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

JCinMN said:


> Hmmmm, so I must not have come across as I was intending. I guess I'm not *****ing about the bow - it's a sub $200 bow and for the money it does a pretty kick butt job. However, with it shooting that "slow" my sight picture is limiting me to about a 30-40 yard spread. With the top pin set at 20 yards and the sight set up with that as high as it can go, the bottom pin only can move down to get me to 50-60 yards. I'm not worried about that for hunting at this stage of my experience, but I do like to target shoot longer distances. So far I'm looking for shots inside 30 yards because I'm not confident in my shooting ability in the field vs the range. Anyway....
> 
> I guess what I was intending is that if the bow really was a 293 fps IBO bow, with that setup I'd expect it to be shooting quite a bit faster (250-260 ish?) So either I have something messed up or the IBO rating is fudged. If someone could say, "that's not right with that bow maybe you should look at this and this and this..." that's great. If the answer is "the IBO numbers are BS", that fine too because I bought a cheap entry level bow that would just shoot well and help me develop my skills and get my through my first bowhunting season.
> 
> The point is, if these bows do typically shoot a little faster I'd like to do something about it. If this is normal then that's fine. I was just looking for experienced opinions.


Having been a previous owner of a Nova, just want to say, the most I ever got with mine was about 250 fps. But that was 60 pounds, but I was shooting arrows that only weighed about 300 gr including point. 

You got to keep in mind that these ratings are with a bow drawing 30 inches, set at 70 pounds, with nothing on them. No peep, no string leeches...just a rest to shoot from. And they only use arrows that weigh 5 grains for each pound of draw weight. I.E. 350 grain arrow for a 70 lbs = 350 grain arrow.

In my opinion, you got a decent hunting bow or 3D bow for hunter class out to 35 to 40 yards. Especially for the money. If you want to shoot open class 3D out to 50 yards or field archery, etc to even longer ranges, you need to invest in a better bow. I.E. A Bowtech, Hoyt or Mathews. Others are good too, such as PSE, Martin, etc. But I'm prejudiced. I shoot a Mathews. Two of them as a matter of fact.


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## Bellows1 (Oct 19, 2003)

mg3320 said:


> JC, speed and forgiveness are often the enemies of eachother, specifically in entry level bows. The Nova is a good platform. PSE makes tough glass limbs and usually keeps their axle to axle lengths and brace heights on the forgiving side.
> 
> As you become more experienced you'll find there are little ways to tweak additional speed out of a certain bow. Probably the best way is to replace the stock string and cables with a thinner material. Some others are to shorten or lighten your arrows, change to a drop away rest, replace the stock cable guard or slide, etc. Simply said, I would recommend that if you are truly a beginner not to get wrapped up in a "speed quest".
> 
> ...


Excellient post. If only every responce was as well thought out and written. Thanks.

If you must have a little more speed, the easiest way is to lighten your arrows. Something in the 6-7 grns per " will work.


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Bellows1 said:


> Excellient post. If only every responce was as well thought out and written. Thanks.
> 
> If you must have a little more speed, the easiest way is to lighten your arrows. Something in the 6-7 grns per " will work.



Already there, 70lbs * 6 grns = 420 grains and I'm at about ~435 grns...

If this bow is within expectations, the I'm going to leave it as it. My concern is that it should be shooting faster given my draw weight, lenth and arrow weight and the rating of the bow (which is suspect). That's fine, it seemed low to me but if that's the way it is, that's the way it is. 

Although, some things that were recommended was to check the cam timing and other little things like the cable guard sliding smoothly, etc... But it doesn't sound like 230 is majorly below anyone's expectations and that's cool.


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Ahhh I just reread your post and you said 6-7 grns per inch, not lb. Yes, that would lighten the arrows but isn't that too light? I thought you weren't supposed to go below 6 grains per lb of draw weight?? Not to mention the spine of the arrows if they are that light with a 70lb bow...


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## mg3320 (Aug 3, 2004)

Shortening you arrows will normally increase the stiffness (spine). Similarly a lighter point will normally increase stiffness as well. Go to eastonarchery.com and look at the shaft tables for your setup. You'll need to know your draw weight, the type of cam on your bow (single is normally a hard cam) and your arrow length. I normally setup most hunting bows so the arrow is only one inch past the rest (assuming you have sufficent riser clearance for your broadheads).

That said, you don't want arrow that is either too stiff or too weak. My best advice is while you're at the easton website go ahead and download a copy of their tuning guide. While archery has come a long way since it was originally written, it will give you a good understanding on how to tune and adjust your bow to shoot your arrows.


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

mg3320 said:


> Shortening you arrows will normally increase the stiffness (spine). Similarly a lighter point will normally increase stiffness as well. Go to eastonarchery.com and look at the shaft tables for your setup. You'll need to know your draw weight, the type of cam on your bow (single is normally a hard cam) and your arrow length. I normally setup most hunting bows so the arrow is only one inch past the rest (assuming you have sufficent riser clearance for your broadheads).
> 
> That said, you don't want arrow that is either too stiff or too weak. My best advice is while you're at the easton website go ahead and download a copy of their tuning guide. While archery has come a long way since it was originally written, it will give you a good understanding on how to tune and adjust your bow to shoot your arrows.



Yes, they do have a good tuning guide and I used it while tuning my bow.

I think the biggest thing that I'm having a hard time with though is the arrow selection. I hear that you shouldn't shoot less than 6grns per inch because of damage to the bow, but it seems a lot of people do. How much flex given a particular spine can one expect for a particular arrow and bow setup, what do you really want for flex, etc... It just seems kind of nebulous and I like to have hard metrics and reasons for particular choices, etc... Guess I like to be able to understand and calculate.


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## mg3320 (Aug 3, 2004)

*Archery is a Learn as You Go Sport*

I personally do not shoot less than six grains per inch, yes some do, but I don't recommend it. I prefer a little heavier arrow which I believe improves penetration resulting from higher kinetic enery (another term argued frequently). Do some searches on this site concerning KE and arrow weight and you'll find differing opinions. Bottom line....I would hold to your arrow manufacturer's spine and weight charts.

As an aside...you'll find archery is far from an exact science. Yes, the physics are constant and determinable.....but what works well for each individual archer is as infinite as the stars. I like long axle to axle bows (37 to 40") with generous brace heights (7"+) and heavier carbon arrows. Some shooters like compact axle to axle bows (Matthews), shorter brace heights for speed (Matthews Black Max / Hoyt Turbotec) and lighter arrows (Cheetahs). It's all about what works for you.

Shoot the Nova for a year or two. If archery is something you enjoy, then before you make your next bow purchase seek out a reputable pro shop in your area. I would strongly recommend against buying your next bow from a catalog house. Yes, they sell good entry level equipment, but a serious archer (one who is willing to commit to the sport) will be greatly benefited by visiting a pro shop. At a good pro shop, you'll be able to shoot some different bows, and get some sound advice from a knowledgeable archer.

My advice for now: if you're pleased with your current arrow groups and realize your personal distance limits (we all have them)....then just go hunt and enjoy yourself.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

JCinMN said:


> Yes, they do have a good tuning guide and I used it while tuning my bow.
> 
> I think the biggest thing that I'm having a hard time with though is the arrow selection. I hear that you shouldn't shoot less than 6grns per inch because of damage to the bow, but it seems a lot of people do. How much flex given a particular spine can one expect for a particular arrow and bow setup, what do you really want for flex, etc... It just seems kind of nebulous and I like to have hard metrics and reasons for particular choices, etc... Guess I like to be able to understand and calculate.


You know one thing which no one has suggest is you need to put a decent set of strings and cables on the bow and have it tuned up. There should be some pro willing to do that for you or a good friend. The PSE Nova is in the economy class and I doubt they put a 50 or 60 dollar pair of strings on it. Did, you know you could add 10 fps sometimes by changing the type of string material. I bet, if you put your bow on a scale, it will be no place close to 70# if it every was, because of string stretch.

The IBO rating is a 350 grain arrow, 70# and 30" draw no fletching are required, nothing on the string and any timing magic they can do and the best speed of any arrow is the one they use. It give some comparsion capability between the different makes and models. Do different models have differ performance for shorter draw archers? Probably.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

JCinMN said:


> Yes, they do have a good tuning guide and I used it while tuning my bow.
> 
> I think the biggest thing that I'm having a hard time with though is the arrow selection. I hear that you shouldn't shoot less than 6grns per inch because of damage to the bow, but it seems a lot of people do. How much flex given a particular spine can one expect for a particular arrow and bow setup, what do you really want for flex, etc... It just seems kind of nebulous and I like to have hard metrics and reasons for particular choices, etc... Guess I like to be able to understand and calculate.


Download a trial copy of "Software for Archers" at pinwheelsoftware.com. it will save you a lot of money and headaches and will allow you to see cause and effect before you make expensive unnecessary changes.


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Deezlin said:


> Download a trial copy of "Software for Archers" at pinwheelsoftware.com. it will save you a lot of money and headaches and will allow you to see cause and effect before you make expensive unnecessary changes.


So that's one very cool piece of software. I spent a lot of time making hand calculations for what it gave me with a few mouse clicks. It also comes in with numbers pretty close to what I calculated which is not even close to how my setup is performing. Which then puts me back to thinking that something is still not performing as it should. 

Well, I like to tinker with stuff so this gives me a challenge.


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Deezlin said:


> I bet, if you put your bow on a scale, it will be no place close to 70# if it every was, because of string stretch.


It is at 72 lbs right now to be exact.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

JCinMN said:


> It is at 72 lbs right now to be exact.


That is good, I am suprised actually. Did you replace the strings? You said something about tuning. Is the axle to axle and brace height in spec?


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Deezlin said:


> That is good, I am suprised actually. Did you replace the strings? You said something about tuning. Is the axle to axle and brace height in spec?


I have adjusted it in tuning and as my ability has incresed over the past year I've been shooting. Stock strings though. I don't know the brace height and axle to axle specs though. There's some stuff on the cabela's website but I don't know how accurate they are (this was a custom bow for cabelas).

Just reaffirms the need to deal with a pro shop


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

If it is a PSE bow then you can call them. If it has a serial number they may be able to tell you what they are. I would check to see if it matches the Cabela's specifications as far as axle to axle is concerned. If it does not I would have someone build a set of strings for it. Have them use something like UltraCam or BCY 452 and they will not stretch so much. The bow will shoot a lot better if it is in specs. I don't know what Cabela would have done to the bow. I would have though they would have just bought it from PSE,


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

The IBO rating is not accurate for most bows. Most archers don't get close to the IBO for a variety of reasons, including draw length, arrow weight, accessories on the string, etc.

This is especially true for the Nova. IBO ratings are done at 5 grains of arrow weight per pound of peak draw weight. The Nova requires arrows that are 6 grains per pound of peak DW.

I think that PSE builds the limbs to older standards that need that additional margin.

The Nova is a great bow for the money. I started with one and I shoot it as well or bette than any of my much more expensive bows. It does come with a very poor grip, but if you take it off and wrap the riser with tennis racket tape, it will help your groups. The narrower grip is less critical for torque and hand placement.


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

Well, I rechecked my draw weight, tiller, etc... and everything was still where I had it. So I finally broke down and bought a bow square. Found the problem, nocking point was significantly too low. Adjusted the nocking point and I no longer have a fletching clearance issue and I gained 44 fps  Consistently shooting 274 now


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## JCinMN (Sep 27, 2005)

AllenRead said:


> The Nova is a great bow for the money... It does come with a very poor grip, but if you take it off and wrap the riser with tennis racket tape, it will help your groups. The narrower grip is less critical for torque and hand placement.


That's a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion, I never would have thought about that.

I didn't notice the grip issue until a couple of weeks ago when I was shooting a bowtech allegiance (sweeeeeeet bow - it's on my christmas list :wink Now that I've seen the light on better grips I was noticing how bulky the grip is on my bow (as well as several others that my relatives own).


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