# Scope dropping low in peep



## fanio (Feb 1, 2011)

As we're discussing float and sight picture related issues, I thought I would ask about a problem I have been having on and off for more than a year now: 

my scope "drops" in the peep as I am executing. The dot is NOT holding low - the dot is floating around fairly close to where it should be - but that the whole scope body drops in the peep, so I only see the top 75% of my scope housing inside the peep. 

As the alignment starts off OK, I suspect there is movement somewhere in the system (maybe the peep moves up as I pull through - not sure). I am not sure how to fix this - it is a problem at all distances, but less so if I reduce peep height (but 90m then becomes a real challenge).

Thanks


----------



## jab73 (Jan 22, 2013)

I have a similar issue. I believe its part anchor point. But its subtle. And related to my left elbow as I pull through to fire my release.
If my elbow stays down, and I can fire with my back muscles I stay in alignment.
If my left elbow pops up slightly. My peep doesn't stay aligned . 
Not sure if its all form . or partial peep position.?


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

If the peep is moving and your bow hand is keeping the dot steady only one answer the anchor is shifting. Personally I fixed the peep moving by putting my middle ginger first knuckle in the depression behind my ear lobe then put the index finger knuckle behind the jaw bone so the end of the jawbone is between the first 2 knuckles. With this anchor and a hinge release as assumptions the only remaining variable is your head angle if the tip of your nose is just touching the string NOTHING CAN MOVE.


----------



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Joe Schnur said:


> If the peep is moving and your bow hand is keeping the dot steady only one answer the anchor is shifting. *Personally I fixed the peep moving by putting my middle ginger first knuckle in the depression behind my ear lobe then put the index finger knuckle behind the jaw bone so the end of the jawbone is between the first 2 knuckles. *With this anchor and a hinge release as assumptions the only remaining variable is your head angle if the tip of your nose is just touching the string NOTHING CAN MOVE.


I do something very similar, except my hand isn't that far 'back' on my face. The 90 degree bend in my jaw fits nicely on the webbing between my first and middle fingers.


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

You could also be scrunching your shoulders or neck and changing how your eye is seeing through the peep. Your anchor will feel the same, but you head is moving along the string of the bow this way some.


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

fanio said:


> ...my scope "drops" in the peep as I am executing. The dot is NOT holding low - the dot is floating around fairly close to where it should be - but that the whole scope body drops in the peep, so I only see the top 75% of my scope housing inside the peep.....


If the dot stays on the X, but the scope moves down relative to the sight picture in your peep, then you must be hitting high. Is that correct? If that's the case, Joe Schnur is right and your anchor is moving. 

Based on your description, I don't think your your peep is moving relative to your sight because it will be moving down and your sight would appear to be higher in the peep and you would hit low.

More information please. Where does the arrow hit? High, low, left or right? What is your DL and the bows ATA & brace?

Allen


----------



## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

How much face contact do you have with the string?


----------



## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

fanio said:


> As we're discussing float and sight picture related issues, I thought I would ask about a problem I have been having on and off for more than a year now:
> 
> my scope "drops" in the peep as I am executing. The dot is NOT holding low - the dot is floating around fairly close to where it should be - but that the whole scope body drops in the peep, so I only see the top 75% of my scope housing inside the peep.
> 
> ...


If I move my head I can make that happen. head movement like nodding moves my eye up and down and I can see all or part of the scope.
so my fix was hold my head still.....


----------



## fanio (Feb 1, 2011)

I don't think I have a lot of face contact. A link to a screenshot here http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s554/StefanErasmus/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsf8ad8d58.jpg


----------



## archeryshooter3 (Apr 12, 2011)

I have the same issue. What I have noticed is that when it happens it's because of fatigue in by left shoulder causing my form to break down and forcing my bow arm down.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

fanio said:


> I don't think I have a lot of face contact. A link to a screenshot here http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s554/StefanErasmus/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsf8ad8d58.jpg


closeup of your head is of ZERO use.

Need the camera lens at YOUR shoulder height, not down on the floor.

Need a full body shot, head to toe photo.

1) collapsing bow shoulder would cause your SCOPE to drop down low, as you execute your shot.

2) STRAINING your neck as you execute your shot (HEAD/neck TILTS backwards) makes the SCOPE body APPEAR to fall down, when your HEAD is doing the movement backwards

so,
ultimately
need a head to toe VIDEO of you doing your shot,
VIDEO cam lens not at belly button height,
VIDEO cam leans at SHOULDER height, a LEVEL lens, zoomed OUT
so we can see you HEAD to toe.

POST a video clip
and then, the diagnosis will be fairly obvious.


----------



## fanio (Feb 1, 2011)

It was meant just to answer Jacob's specific question re "how much face contact". Here is a better shot, taken at shoulder height, showing face contact and general "release area form":


----------



## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

My bet would be your shoulder rides up once you start executing. I just worked on this recently and that was the case for me.


----------



## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

its hard to rule out the heavy face contact with the string as a cause; as you pull through the shot the string rides different on the face and the relative position of the peep changes some... more than likely its a combination of bow shoulder height and position along with peep height and the changes due to face contact.

Do you have a pic with you just in a t-shirt? or something not so bulky as a sweater?


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Shoulder looks high but with out the whole rig hard to see might be collapsing a bit under pull of release


----------



## ken Johnson (Apr 5, 2007)

archeryshooter3

" I have the same issue. What I have noticed is that when it happens it's because of fatigue in by left shoulder causing my form to break down and forcing my bow arm down. "

Archery shooter 3, Your are some what right. the problem of dropping the bow -arm is often cause by aiming. You do not aim in archery.

The proper form is to draw the bow with the pin above the target.then relax and let the pin come down on it's own. The pin will not rest on the center of the target but will hover around the center. On a good day it will hover very close on a bad day it will make a bigger circle. 

Once the pin drops below the target you should let down because you can never lift the bow arm up without pushing the bow and missing. If you are making the mistake of bringing your pin up to the target at the release your bow arm will relax and you will see the pin drop down. 

The solution to the dropping of the pins is, #1 stop aiming and #2 stop trying to bring you pin up onto the target.

Good luck. Ken


----------



## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Also, just wanted to add one way to test this while blank/blind bailing.

Draw back, anchor and line up your peep. 

Close your eyes like your going to blind bail and start to execute your shot.

Open your eyes before the shot goes off.

Where is your scope? Low in the peep? Did you feel anything (shoulder collapsing)? 

With your eyes closed you should really be able to distinctly feel your shoulder come out of line if that is indeed what is happening.


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

You know I had this issue come up earlier this year and I ignored it for a while and then I finally decided that ignoring it was overlooking something that could be hurting my shooting so I started to pay attention to it and it didn't take long to figure it out. It was one of my firing engines that I train with and shoot competitively sometimes, that firing engine is the Yielding type where I slightly stretch out my hand to fire the hinge and it allows my anchor to slightly creep up my face during its execution. 

My other main firing engine which is called the Squeeze and Pull firing engine I slightly pull into the wall with my ring and middle finger and this firing engine keeps some down pressure on my anchor point and my anchor is much more solid while I run this engine.

I will say that saturday I did take off 4 ounces of weight off the front stabilizer just for the heck of it because I had taken a few weeks off for hunting season from shooting and my front arm got tired towards the end of my shooting session. I instantly noticed that by taking off that 4 ounces of weight allowed my peep and my anchor to sit very solid nice and lined up and I could feel a big difference in the amount of effort to keep my hand anchored and not want to creep up my cheek.

I think when you use a front heavy bow your anchor wants to creep up your face and when you use a back heavy bow it wants to creep down, so you might do a shooting session where you change the combination of weights front to back and concentrate on how well you float and how well you can stay lined up with your scope and peep. To me there must be a balance between float and form when setting up your bow and we overlook this way to much.


----------



## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

You need to relax and lower your release hand shoulder then anchor. Your shoulder is dropping as you execute your shot.


----------

