# Can one compare Kap Winstar too SF forged, or Permium ?



## Mellowfellow (Oct 28, 2013)

I know the KAP Winstar is an older riser, but is it beginner too intermediate in terms that it can last a few years even if bought secondhand ? I might have the option of buying such a riser, instead of splashing on a new Forged riser.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

There was a Winstar 1 and a Winstar 2. The Winstar 2 was the "go-to" riser for 25" entry level/intermediate ILF with cut-outs that looked a lot like the Avalon, which was probably not an accident. The limb adjustment is inconvenient, but I believe the system is the same on the Premium. Functionally, the Winstar2 and Premium are probably pretty similar. 

The SF Forged+ looks very nicely made and finished and has an adjustment system similar to the higher W&W models, which is easy to use. I've a seen a lot of them and the owners seemed happy. It's probably a good step up from the others, and definitely have a cool factor going for them.

I've never had to make adjustments, so this issue may be overrated issue on the older/less expensive ones. If you have to make adjustments, it's a pain, but, if you're careful, you'll do it once and leave it. Just be sure you don't accidentally move the left/right limb adjustment when changing the weight or tiller as they use the same bolt.


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

The SF is a better made riser.


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

I have a Winstar II that I've used for a hunting/3D bow for the past 6 years. I'd call it an intermediate level riser. It has 3 stabilizer/counter weight bushings. The limb alignment and tiller adjustment appears complicated, until you take it all apart to see how it works, then it's simple and works for small tweaks to alignment. The grip is not too bad on mine which is plastic and Jager makes a 2.0 for it. I had mine film dipped but the original paint was fairly tough. It's not as stiff as my older Hoyt GM or as my GMX. With around 12ozs of X-Spot barebow weight in the lower bushing it balances perfectly and just sits dead in the hand. Mine has over 100,000 shots on it #[email protected]" draw. I've had no problems with mine.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

If you're thinking about buying a new riser for less than 200 bucks, let me recommend the Raven Prestige FX. I feel like it is the best riser I have seen for the price. It is anodized, machined aluminum. Very nice. better than SF Forged and cheaper IMO. SF Forged has issues with limb pocket being just slightly too skinny for some ILF limbs.


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## jocala (Jan 26, 2013)

Ten_Zen said:


> SF Forged has issues with limb pocket being just slightly too skinny for some ILF limbs.


Citation please? I'm due for a limb upgrade this summer and this is the first I've heard of this issue.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

Ten_Zen said:


> If you're thinking about buying a new riser for less than 200 bucks, let me recommend the Raven Prestige FX. I feel like it is the best riser I have seen for the price. It is anodized, machined aluminum. Very nice. better than SF Forged and cheaper IMO. SF Forged has issues with limb pocket being just slightly too skinny for some ILF limbs.


Yes, I'm interested in a source too. I've put limbs from Samick, Win&Win, KAP, and PSE in my Forged+ and never had a problem.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

We once had a problem with a KAP Evolution or TRex and Samick limbs: they would not go in far enough because the side of the limb pockets was too narrow. I don't know about the Winstar 2 in that regard. And perhaps that was only a single example of the limbs.


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## KenYeoh (Feb 21, 2010)

The TRex limbs are definitely an issue with many ILF risers. I've seen many issues with them getting stuck in risers.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

DWAA Archer said:


> The SF is a better made riser.


In what way?


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## wmt3rd (Oct 20, 2004)

The Winstar II was my first riser. I liked it. I replaced it with an Aerotec, but my scores didn't improve. Damnit!


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

I have a set KAP T-Rex limbs and they fit the Winstar II fine. I also have Hoyt and SF limbs that fit.
Get the Winstar II cheap and put the savings toward limbs; my 2 cents.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

The issue we had was with a T-Rex RISER and Samick LIMBS, just to clarify.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

hwjchan said:


> Yes, I'm interested in a source too. I've put limbs from Samick, Win&Win, KAP, and PSE in my Forged+ and never had a problem.


Source is a member of my club. I am not sure what limbs he uses, I will ask tomorrow.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

I've run T-Rex, Axiom+, Samick Extremes, Kap Challenger Carbons, PSE Expressions, and SF Premiums through my Forged+ with no problem. Only the Extremes stuck even a little bit.


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## jocala (Jan 26, 2013)

Ten_Zen said:


> If you're thinking about buying a new riser for less than 200 bucks, let me recommend the Raven Prestige FX. I feel like it is the best riser I have seen for the price. It is anodized, machined aluminum. Very nice. better than SF Forged and cheaper IMO. SF Forged has issues with limb pocket being just slightly too skinny for some ILF limbs.





Ten_Zen said:


> Source is a member of my club. I am not sure what limbs he uses, I will ask tomorrow.




Thanks. I'm sure the Raven is a fine riser @ $200, they look very pretty anyway with very clean lines. I'd also recommend the OP look at the Cartel Fantom @ $129. My wife shoots one and likes it fine. I shoot it and can't say my SFF+ shoots better. 

I'd agree with K31Scout to get the used riser if you can save significant coin. Save your money for a really good sight. If that used riser is >= $129, take a look at the Cartel Fantom.


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## Mellowfellow (Oct 28, 2013)

I'm hoping that the bow fill fit me, I'll probably find out tomorrow. Comes with a set of 35# Cybow Carbon limbs (not sure which). I get a set of 30# SF Fibre limbs next week, so the carbons will likely be a good improv.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

So I talked to my friend About the SF Forged. Turns out it they are SF Elite High Foam limbs that he has the issue with, which doesn't make sense i know, but I saw it with my own eyes last night. At the factory setting the limbs dont make contact with the pocket, but when he cranked his limb bolts down, the outer corner of the dovetail on his upper limb made contact with the limb pocket, just barely but enough to score the limb slightly on that corner. Its an interesting setup too. The factory setting holds the limb entirely above the pocket, only when you crank the bolts down does the limb actually sit in the pocket.


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## Mellowfellow (Oct 28, 2013)

The limbs are 70" Cybow Eldorado Limbs with a sticker on the back marked 34-70 36-68. What do those numbers mean ? 

Are they 70 or 68" limbs ?? If I understand it correctly I can shoot 68" (or medium) limbs on a 25" handle.
I'm 6 Foot (185cm hope I translated that correctly).

Appreciate all the help guys


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

That should mean that it will be 34# on a 25" riser, and be 70" long (AMO). On a 23" riser, they are 36# and 68". Some limbs put a "H25" meaning 25" riser ahead of the 34# 70".


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

Heres some pictures in case you are still skeptical


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## K31Scout (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks for the photos Ten Zen. You are right; that doesn't make sense.


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## lunect (Feb 25, 2012)

Thank you for the picture. It looks like limbs should be ground to fit on the riser


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## rooster61 (Apr 1, 2003)

Nothing a little sandpaper cant fix.


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Agreed. Lots of chatter on this before, looks more like a limb problem (base too wide). I've filed down the corners on some limb sets to get full adjustability without contact.


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## RickBac (Sep 18, 2011)

SF Forged for the money you can't beat the quality.

As for the limb fit issue, I have seen that on more than one riser. Let me correct that. The riser is fine. The limbs don't fit quite right.

very light sanding fixes the problem.


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

jocala said:


> Thanks. I'm sure the Raven is a fine riser @ $200, they look very pretty anyway with very clean lines. I'd also recommend the OP look at the Cartel Fantom @ $129. My wife shoots one and likes it fine. I shoot it and can't say my SFF+ shoots better.
> 
> I'd agree with K31Scout to get the used riser if you can save significant coin. Save your money for a really good sight. If that used riser is >= $129, take a look at the Cartel Fantom.


Mellow, I agree with jocala's post. You didn't say what limbs you might be shooting with on your new/used riser, but my first set-up when I first started archery 5-6 years back was the Cartel Fantom with a pair of KAP T-Rex limbs that Lancaster had laying around. I had no problems with that set-up and it shot great for an entry level bow. Regards, LT


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## Ftj86 (Aug 15, 2018)

Hi guys. Just found this thread and it's 4 years old. Hope it's still good for a question. 

Just started with archery and got a club friend that's letting go of few used risers for a fair price. How would you guys compare a SF Elite+ and a KAP Winstar 2? Which would be a better option? 

Thanks a lot in advance.


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

The elite+ is a carbon riser, if i'm not mistaken. May be the template for the RCX100(?)

Winstar2 is quite entry level IMO. I shot one for a year. gets the job done, but limb adjustment is a PITA.

Depends what you are deeming a fair price. My recommendation still seems to say start at a forged+ / forged elite alpha (same thing, different stamps).


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## Ftj86 (Aug 15, 2018)

Yeah.. looks kinda similar to RCX 100. 
The Forged plus seems pretty cool but unfortunately, only the Winstar 2 and SF Elite + is in offer. He's selling any either 1 for 90 euros. Winstar in perfect condition and elite's handle looks worn off. 
Should be an okay deal right?


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

over priced for the winstar2 IMO. i haven't seen an rcx or a sfelite+ to compare price.


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## PregnantGuppy (Jan 15, 2011)

Ftj86 said:


> Yeah.. looks kinda similar to RCX 100.
> The Forged plus seems pretty cool but unfortunately, only the Winstar 2 and SF Elite + is in offer. He's selling any either 1 for 90 euros. Winstar in perfect condition and elite's handle looks worn off.
> Should be an okay deal right?


Grips can easily be replaced, and looking worn is not an indicator that it is damaged, either. Otherwise, the SF Elite+ is about a $400-$500 riser, if I recall correctly, so for 90 euros it's a steal. As long as there's nothing mechanically wrong with the bow, sounds like you found a good starting point.


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## Ftj86 (Aug 15, 2018)

Checked both risers with the help of another friend and said it was all good. And from your advices i decide to get the sfelite then. Thank you so much huckduck and PregnantGuppy.


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