# Any experience with KAP Evolution II



## RafaPolit (Jun 26, 2006)

Jorgen, you are a very tall man! Unfortunately, the EvoII is a 23" riser wich will prevent you from getting a 70" bow, which you will probably need.

I can speak for the Evolution II limbs (which I own) they are trully great for beginner (not just youth, im 29) and you can start with 30# and work up your way to the 36# before jumping to other limbs, without spending a fortune. I have them paired with a PSE Zone (wich I will never end thanking Nuts&Bolts for "lending" it to me! Thanks again!) that is 25". Probably you should think of a 25" riser also like the KAP Winstar II (almost $80 more, I know) or the Samick Agulla ($40 more than the EvoII at lancaster).

Take my suggestion with twizers, since I have only been shooting for 4 months.:embara: 

Hope this helps,

Rafa.


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## xxxxshooter (Nov 4, 2005)

In general, you get what you pay for - if it is more expensive, it is probably better. So, figure out how much you want to spend on this venture - and then go spend it. There is a world of difference between a 100$ riser and a 400$ one.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Jørgen said:


> I was told by a Norwegian dealer that he concidered it as a "youth bow", is this really correct? Others have told me that it's a good beginners bow.
> 
> I'm a 26 year old man, at 6'4", and if I get the Evo II, I'll get a 68" bow with 30# draw. The next step up would be the Samick Agulla, but the Agulla package is nearly twice as expensive.
> 
> ...


first, yes its considered a beginners bow. If you are 6'4" with a 30" draw, you should get a 70 inch bow. 25 inch riser and long limbs. it will give you less finger pinch and a better string angle. I am 6'0" and have a 29.5 inch draw. I am at the limit with my bow at 68". and if i was taller or had a longer draw, i would shoot 70.

if i had advice to give you , i would say get a used hoyt matrix instead of the evolution. it is a better riser and will have better resale value, and cost you about the same. you wont really have to upgrade it. cant say the same of the evolution. hope i helped...


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

One dealer has just put out a "This months special offer" on a Evo II package.


KAP Evolution II complete bow, with riser, limbs, string and nockpoints.
Hoyt plastic arrow rest
Cartel championship sight
Stab
Tab
6 arrows
Armprotector
Quiver
Negrini hardcase


The price is around US$325.

Should I go for it? I know it's a 68" bow, but during the beginners course I used a 66" bow, and I didn't have a problem with it. (Didn't really know there should be a problem, so...) I can always get a better riser later when I get better, can't I? Seeing as I'm a complete beginner, I don't think I'll notice much of a difference between a 68" and a 70" bow. If you feel I'll be making a huge mistake in getting this package, please say so. I want all the input I can get before I buy!

Thanks for all your replies, I'm really beginning to like Archery Talk a lot!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

am not sure if they have it in norway but the sebastin flute risers and limbs are very good value and should last you a long time...another good combo at a reasonable price would be the hoyt GM and any limbs with carbon....and yes..you DEFINITELY need a 25" riser and long(70") limbs!...PS...also get the very best arrows you can afford!!


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

The problem with getting the parts seperatly is that it becomes way more expensive than buying a predefined package, unfortunaltly. However, I just spoke with the dealer in question, and seeing as a 68" bow would be a little on the short side, she would see if she could put together a new package in my price range, so excellent service there. I think maybe it'll be a Samick Agulla package. I'll keep you posted.


The package comes with premade carbon arrows. I think they'll do for now. I can get into building my own arrows with the club later, right now I have no idea where to even begin in choosing shafts, nocks and points...


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## RafaPolit (Jun 26, 2006)

Jorgen, your first months of training are essential in developping your technique. A shorter bow will have several negative effects, the most important one is that you would be tilting your head forward to get the string to touch your nose, and that would transform into neck akes, and difficulty in reaching propper anchor.
Also, matching your arrows to your draw and limbs # is very important, does this deal let you choose the shaft length and stiffness?

edit: I just read your new post, many members here, specially Nuts&Bolts will go every distance to help you match the arrows you need. If you can take one more day to make your decission, you will end up with a terrific set. Trust me. Do not hurry into this thing, you will regret it further down the line!
Rafa.


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Well, at least the length. I'll be getting the longest prebuilt arrows they have. I don't know how long they are, but they are standard prebuilt carbon arrows.

Edit: I think they are 5.5mm 550 spine. I don't really know what 550 spine means, though... And I still don't know how long they are, but I'm guessing 30" or 31".


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## menaztricks (Apr 2, 2006)

You should really find out if you can pick the spine of your arrows, having the wrong spine can really make your learning days hell. Which dealer are you talking about? Try altservices.co.uk, they have great prices even w/ international shipping.


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Ok, they couldn't make a cheaper package than the Agulla package they already had at $660.


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## xxxxshooter (Nov 4, 2005)

If you make your own kit, say at altservices.co.uk, how much will that set you back?

I bought my son a KAP Winstar II (similar to my old W&W Striker) + KAP Challenger limbs from them, it was quite affordable and makes a really nice beginner's bow.

I know you have norwegian import tax to consider but you should be able to go below $600


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

I tried before to make a set that matched the Evolution II package, but there's no way I can match the price. But since I shouldn't buy the 23" riser, I can make a kit that beats the price of the Samick Agulla package.

Ok, what do you guys think of this package? And is there anything missing?

KAP Winstar II riser
KAP Challenger craft limbs
Cartel Fast String
Saunders Nock Sets
Cartel Super Rest
Cartel Pro-Gold 701 T/D Bag
Cartel K-Sight
Gompy Tab
Cartel Dynamic 501 Quiver
Cartel CR 505 arm guard
Alternative Leisure carbon arrows 31in
Gompy Leather Wrist strap


Total price including import tax, but excluding shipping: $466


The Winstar II, Agulla and Hoyt Gold Medalist risers all cost apx. the same thing. So which one is better? Or is it just a matter of which one you think looks the best?

The arrows are: 31in, 5.5mm diameter, 550 spine. I hope these will do.


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## xxxxshooter (Nov 4, 2005)

Spine of arrows will depend (primarily) on the weight of your limbs. What were you considering? Best bet is to try some club arrows first - then buy you own.


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## baldmountain (Apr 21, 2003)

Don't get caught up in the I need expensive stuff to be any good mentality. Most people could save themselves a LOT of money by realizing that the high end gear is not getting them more points. In fact, because the performance of the high end gear is so high they are probably costing themselves points. I often shoot an old Ben Pearson Collegiate bow that IIRC I got from a yard sale for $5. Even in competitions.

There is nothing wrong with the Evolution II. If you have a confidence problem shooting such inexpensive gear consider getting the Evolution II limbs and a used Hoyt Matrix riser. (Hoyt has completely devalued them by discontinuing them. Which is too bad since it is a great riser.) You'll never have to upgrade the Matrix. Once you get a bit stronger you can upgrade to some better and heavier limbs later.


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

I'm getting 30 pound limbs to start with. I've been using 24 pound limbs during the course, and they are too light. I think 30 pounds is perfect for me for the time being.

I don't think I need expensive stuff, but a lot of people are telling me I should get a 70" bow (even the dealer I talked to told me that), and I can't do that with the Evolution II. So the Winstar is the cheapest model I can get for a 70" bow. The rest of the equipment is amongst the cheapest, too.


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## baldmountain (Apr 21, 2003)

Oh, one more thing. Don't buy a cheap sight. You REALLY want to save yourself the aggravation of dealing with a cheap sight. (Don't get the Cartel. It's junk.) A good recurve sight will work on any recurve you ever own so you will transfer it to any new equipment you buy.

I can't say this strongly enough. Save up a bit more money and get a good sight.


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## RafaPolit (Jun 26, 2006)

Bladmountain is giving sound advice!

I was in the same situation as you are, you can maybe refer to the post I made and get some more info:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=346568

I got more or less the same advice you are getting here, the post ends up way before my final purchase choices (that were made through PMs), so Ill update what changed:

I downgraded the Kap Challenger to the Evolution IIs, and Im very happy with the choice (for the money), I changed the sight (I agree with baldmountain) to a Cartel Medalist, that is working fine, I believe it to be a good middle ground sight until you can afford a $200 shibuya!

The rest lasts forever if you are careful, and we have had bad experiences with the other brands braking, so ask for the Hoyt Super Rest.
The plunger is a terrific piece of equipment, and very good for finetuning once you aquire some skill.

The tab also makes a difference, at my club everyone is changing to Cavalier (maybe just a fashion issue, but they fell in love with my tab).

And post your draw length, and the # of your limbs (I know you have said 30#) remebering that if the limbs are meant for a 23" riser like the Evolution limbs, you will get 2lbs less. That got me confused at first, but my 30#s make for 28# on my 25" riser. With that info, and the brand of arrows, several members here can run them into the shaft tables and advice you on the spine.

By the way, a member of the club here owns a WinstarII, and its a very nice riser. You will be happy with it.

edit: You are probably missing a plunger button (if the rest doesnt include one), string wax, a bow stringer, and a clicker (I know this is used further down the road, but if you live distant from the dealer, you will want as much as possible in only one trip, as was my situation).

Good luck,
Rafa.


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Thanks for all your help!

Rafa, your post was very informative, thanks a bunch!


Here's my last draft for a full package. The price is about $485 including norwegian import tax, but without shipping. I would love to buy a more expensive sight, but that would blow my budget completely. I'm stretching it as it is. What do you guys think?


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## Jimmy Sweden (Oct 24, 2005)

okay my tip go to sweden, the go to stockholm the visit bågar & pilar (bows and arrows) and by yourself a nice bow and have a blast in swedens capital city just my tip. dont know about price but www.bagaropilar.se have al the information you need.


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## RafaPolit (Jun 26, 2006)

Jorgen,

I believe you are almost set... I will personaly replace the Chalenger Craft for the Evolution II long limbs (remember, they read 68" but will make a 70" on a 25" riser like the winstar II), that will give you $40 more to spend on the Cartel Medalist, with is a bit better, or even the Cartel Medalist lite sight.

Some of the other items im not quite familiar, like the cartel plunger, perhaps someone who knows it can advice. For the rest, I think you are more or less set. The shafts spine is still a concern, truly its very important to match them to your # and draw.

Good luck, and let us know how it went!
Rafa.


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## menaztricks (Apr 2, 2006)

That looks a lot like the order I will be placing soon. My friend has the Challenger Craft limbs and they are niiiiiiiiice. The cartel medalist is a good a good sturdy looking sight, my only complaint is that the knobs are plastic,aside from that its looks nice and sturdy. If you can spare the extra $$ I would go with that. As far as the plunger goes, seems like an awful lot of people use the shibuya DX. I've seen both the cartel and the shibuya, the shibuya just has a nicer higher quality look and feel than the cartel. Not sure if they perform any differently though. Also, I would get a finger sling instead of that gompy leather strap. 

The only thing I will stress again before you order is the arrows. A 550 spine on a 30lb bow seems a bit on the stiff side. I may be wrong, but I'm only going based on the fact that a 500 spine arrow works well on my 52lb compound.


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## pencarrow (Oct 3, 2003)

I just bought a Winstar II riser, love it, matched it to KAP challanger carbon limbs, long 34#. Make sure of the spine on the arrows you buy. I shoot Cartel Triples 1000s ( they spine at 980) 28" draw 35#. Forget the nockset, use tie on, gives you more cast. Your other choices sound good. Just remember, highend equipment doesn't mean high scores, but cheap stuff does limit you.

Lots of luck


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## Miamishooter (Aug 9, 2006)

*Recomendations*

Hello,

I started arcehry recently too and got a KAP Winstar II it is a really good riser you'll not be disapointed. I started with 30# limbs too and in 2 weeks I was already shopping for new limbs.... Don't waste money on the limbs for now.

I had a bunch of heavy and cheap alluminum arrows from 20 years ago. I used them to shoot outdoors. Everytime I damaged or lost them I didn't feel bad, conclusion: If you're going to shoot outdoors with risk of loosing or damaging them, get cheap arrows for now. Otherwise good luck.


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## baldmountain (Apr 21, 2003)

Forget the nock sets. Use some thread or dental floss soaked with super glue. Make sure you have the position right before you use the super glue. (I actually use serving thread. Knotted 4 or 5 times away from the arrow. Last knot is a triple. Burn the ends with a lighter to seal the knot.)

I haven't taken my bow apart in a year or two. I just transport the whole thing put together. If you have the room in your car, and don't mind carrying around a fully assembled bow, then you can skip the bag and use the extra money on a better sight.

I'm going to push the good sight. Get the best one you can afford and you'll never have to replace it. You'll want to replace EVERYTHING else eventually. (You won't be able to help yourself.  )


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Thanks for all your replies!

Here's my new list. I've dropped the challenger limbs for now, and I'm getting the Evolution II limbs instead. I've also dropped the bag.

Instead I've gotten a more expensive sight. I have no idea how good it is though, so I would really appreciate some input on it. It's a Sure-Loc Prodegy sight. Altservices has it on sale for $60. It would either be that or a AGF ZGV Standard II Sight for $66. Again, I would appreciate some advice on this.

I'll leave the nock sets in there, because they don't really cost anything.

And I used the gompy leather strap at the course, and I really like it. I haven't tried the finger slings, but they look really uncomfortable.

As for the arrows, a 550 spine are the only ones I can get prebuilt at 31".



KAP Winstar II riser
KAP Evolution II limb, 68" 32lbs
Cartel Fast String
Saunders Nock Sets
Hoyt Super Pro Rest
Sure-Loc Prodigy Sight - SALE
Gompy Tab
Cartel Dynamic 501 Quiver
Cartel CR 505 arm guard
Alternative Leisure carbon arrows 31in
Gompy Leather Wrist strap
JVD 40cm FITA Target Face x 5
JVD 60cm FITA Target Face x 5
Cartel Triple Cusion Pressure Button
Bohning X-cellerator Wax
Cartel Bowstringer


Price including import tax: $477.


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## 88 PS190 (Sep 26, 2006)

no experience with the prodigy, but i've been impressed by my sure loc challenger (compound) sight.

I don't see people using wrist straps on recurves locally, they might, but a finger sling will cost you all of an old shoe lace to make, and i would give it a try.


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## Steve N (Apr 27, 2004)

Jørgen said:


> ...As for the arrows, a 550 spine are the only ones I can get prebuilt at 31"...


Jorgen,

Is there anyone at the club where you shoot that can help you size and make properly spined arrows? I don't know if the 550 spine is good or bad for your set-up. However, if they are too stiff, or too weak, you will play hell trying to get them to group. If someone at your club can cut the shafts to length, fletch them, and install the points, you can buy the proper sized shaft. You may also be able to buy a few vanes or feathers from someone so you don't have to buy a full bag.

Do you need the FITA target faces? Can you buy them each time you go shoot, or are they provided by the club? Not really a money saver, but just an idea to save a little bit.


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

About the target faces. There's no archery shop around here, so I have to order online. So I'm just getting a few now, to save on postage. They're really not that expensive.


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Ok, I've finally made the order. Here's what I ordered:

KAP Winstar II riser
KAP Evolution II limbs, 68" 32lbs
Cartel Fast String
Saunders Nock Sets
Hoyt Super Pro Rest
Cartel CR-101 Bow Cover
Gompy Tab
Cartel Dynamic 501 Quiver
Cartel CR 505 arm guard
Cartel 2000 sight
Gompy Leather Wrist strap
JVD 60cm FITA Target Face x 5
Cartel Triple Cusion Pressure Button
Bohning X-cellerator Wax
Cartel Bowstringer
Easton XX75 Platinum Plus x6

As I didn't get a bag, I got the Cartel bow covers (for riser and limbs). I probably have a bag somewhere I can put these in if I have to. I also went for the Cartel 2000 sight, because of my bugdet, it should be an OK sight. And finally I went with the Easton platinum plus arrows (thanks Rafa), instead of the original prebuilt or the Easton Jazz arrows.


Thanks a whole lot to all of you for your input, you've been a great help! :cocktail: I'm really looking foreward to receiving my kit!


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## RafaPolit (Jun 26, 2006)

Jørgen said:


> And finally I went with the Easton platinum plus arrows (thanks Rafa)


You are very welcome! I believe you will be very glad with your set, you are good to go for a long time with it.:wink: 

About the bag, I made your same choice, but the downside is that bags not intended for bows tend to grow in every direction as they get bigger (at least the ones I can buy here in Ecuador), so when you get a bag large enough to fit the riser, it is also very deep and very wide, so the things tend to bounce inside!  So you will have to make some adjustments or buy some sponge (is this the correct word?) to keep things in place.

By the way, which spines did you finaly get in the Platinum Plus? I see you bought 6, nice option to be able to choose numbers other than 12!:tongue: 
Good luck, let us know how it turnes out,

Rafa.


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## 88 PS190 (Sep 26, 2006)

Sometimes you can find a tool box large enough to fit your bow, then cut the foam inserts for tool box trays the same way you would for the tools, but to fit your riser.

If you find a good size this works for many things, I have a very nice case I made for a takedown .22 rifle with the same procedure, it also has a reinforced padlock area, to keep it safe.


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Rafa, I used the Easton arrow spine chooser thingy, and it told me to get 1916's, so that's what I got.

I think I have a bag somewhere that's (hopefully) long enough, and it's not too wide and bulky. And getting some foam to put in there is a great tip, thanks!


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## RafaPolit (Jun 26, 2006)

Jorgen, I agree that thats what Easton sugests, for what its worth, there are several very wise folks here that usualy recomend shafts a tad more flexible than those suggested by the charts. Anyhow, I believe this will work very nicely for you.

I know this question should have come a little earlier, but: Did you asked pre-built arrows? If they are not assembling them, you need to purchase Points, Nocks and Vanes and find some nice fellow somewhere near that will cut them for you (if needed) and have them fletched. Hope this is not the case and you were able to ask for (what lancaster calls) MTO arrows (Made To Order?).

If you were not able to ask them MTO, you should buy EASTON ONE PIECE POINTS FOR ALUMINUM SHAFTS and be shure to select the matching size to your shafts, EASTON "G" NOCK 0.098 (this will fit the Platinum Plus quite nicely), and some vanes. I got the Easton ones, just to keep everything Easton, but I think they are a bit to frail for us rookies. A stronger FLEX FLETCH VANE- FFP250 would be a nice choice.

Share with us how your experience turns out, and good luck.

edit: Foam!!! Thats the word, thanks, sponge is what we call it in spanish, but clearly is not the word in english! LOL!

Rafa.


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## yellowgazer (Oct 24, 2006)

Word af advice: large g-nocks (0.098) should be used only for a string of 16-18 strands (or more?) of FastFlight. 

Be sure that you get a good fit between nock and string (not too tight, not too loose)


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Altservices will build the arrows for me, points, fletching and nocks. So luckily I won't need to figure out how to build them myself!  I ordered the large nocks (18 strand fast flight string), and I asked the shop to kindly make sure that all the sizes I ordered matched. And they said that everything looked OK.

I will keep you posted how things turn out. Right now I've got the order confirmation, but they are waiting to have the riser and limbs delivered, and building the arrows will take some time. So I will have to wait 2-3 weeks before they'll ship my order. It will be a loooong wait, let me tell you, but that's how it goes...


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## Jørgen (Oct 15, 2006)

Hey guys,

I thought I'd let everyone know that I finally got my kit. It arrived on the 21st, so it took almost a month from the day I ordered it! Quite a long wait, but now it's worth it! I am very happy with my bow, and I'm already shooting a lot tighter groups than I did with the wooden riser training bow I've been using. I've only had one short practice with it, but I have another on monday, so I'm really looking foreward to it! I've promised Rafa pictures, so I'll see about maybe getting some then.

As you've already read, I didn't get a case, but I got covers for the limbs and riser. I've put these in an old fishing rod soft case I had. It has straps to hold the limbs, so they don't move, and a padded separator that keeps the riser from the limbs as well. It works great, and is the perfect size for my bow. Well, except it's way too long, but the width is perfect.

I want to thank everyone for all the excellent advice and help I've been given. And I'd especially like to thank Rafa for all his help and support.


Good shootin' to everyone! :thumbs_up :wink:


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## RafaPolit (Jun 26, 2006)

Your welcome, Jorgen.

As I have written several times before, I got (and still get) more help from this forum (and particularly from Nuts&Bolts) than I could dream of. So the little help I can give, Im very glad to.

Congratulations on your new set! We "foreign" folks need to get used to waiting a bit more than a month for archery imports, so cheers :darkbeer: glad to know you are set and good to go!

Rafa.


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