# Italian Indoor Championships 2012



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

looks like bb is has a big following in italy ..pretty cool for sure as that is what I shoot mainly.. but not to that caliber...


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## Miltiadis (Feb 18, 2009)

What about Jessica's bow?


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## Joe T (Apr 5, 2003)

Great shooting though.

Probably need an archery equivalent of a body/mass index to describe the situation.

Presumably there is a Patent Pending Stringer bow design in the works - I don't think there is a FITA regulation which says that if you can't string it you can't shoot it .


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Is that 18m or 25m?


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## Miltiadis (Feb 18, 2009)

look at this bow...
tell me something, if you know...


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Miltiadis said:


> look at this bow...
> tell me something, if you know...



Stolid Bull Black Thunder riser.

http://www.tradtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25330


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

And border limbs.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

And probably 4" too long for her, and probably 4" too long and probably very, very stiff arrows.


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## Johndburk (Apr 29, 2011)

Man, it looks like there's at least 10" of arrow extending past the back of the riser at full draw. Wonder how much heavier on the fingers it is compared to her usual rig?


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

is there a web site for these bows ???


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Cool riser. I can see how it would work well for barebow. Man, that gives me the BB itch!


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> is there a web site for these bows ???


Doesn't seem to be working. Those risers are no longer made....AFAIK.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I'm very surprised to see the long/heavy arrow and point-of-aim technique being used instead of stringwalking. I thought the Italians generally prefered skinny arrows and stringwalking.

-Grant


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## buejeger67 (Dec 13, 2008)

I have a Stollid Bull Black thunder, it's in the link Greysides posted. For me, the best riser I have tried for FITA barebow.. It is heavy, 2.5 kilos with the bespoke weight kit. But once you have shot it anything else feels puny. It is stiff and I feel no flex on the shot whatsoever... But it requires a strong bowarm to get the best out of it! Whilst looking or the perfect riser for me I ave bought, shot and sold the following risers... Bernardini Nilo, greenhorn Sirius and the spig 650 club.
After much searching I found this one in Germany, it was the last one... Didn't have a new weight kit, but they had a used one which I then polished up.... I also got the ILF kit, as the riser is originally made for its own limbs made by the same bowyer, but I shoot borders in mine, I have shot hex 4, hex5 and now hex 6 on this riser, the borders and the bull go really well together. my only concern with this riser was the horrible standard grip, but I gt the belt sander out and faxed that  other than that, being as I only have one, and they are not made anymore I do worry about it taking a walk....


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## buejeger67 (Dec 13, 2008)

Some recent pics as I have her set up for indoors...


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Buejeger67:
What brace hieght are you running on that riser?
(sorry for the high jack (short reply expected)


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## buejeger67 (Dec 13, 2008)

Running it at a midges tadger higher than 7.75 inches, smooth and quiet  70" bow


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

How would you know the dimmensions of a midges tadger then my fine fellow?

Really nice riser by the way mate, it's about time you offloaded some of your others though


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

Greysides said:


> Doesn't seem to be working. Those risers are no longer made....AFAIK.


Not correct!
I bought the brand and intellectual property and the rest of the former production.
By the end of the year I will have a new series produced.
Until then I have only a very small number of Black Thunder available.
The new website is rudimentarily online in German but I am working to complete it during the next couple of weeks. The site will then be available in English, too.
The bow is manufactured in Germany in small numbers. The limbs are handcrafted by Rudi Weick, a well-known bow-designer. All limbs are manufactured manually to the special order of a customer and the wood for the veneer can be chosen from 5 different elegant types. Unfortunately Rudi Weick needs about 6 months for completing an order and it might be recommended to order an IFL option to get a chance of using the handle in the meantime.
I myself shoot the Black Thunder with Border HEX 5 ILF and I am very content with these. 
The limbs of Rudi are more special and unique, that's true, but one has to wait some time for completion, whereas the Border limbs have a smooth draw, they are stiff concerning torsion and they are very fast.


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

@Borderbows
Hi Sid,
would you mind joining the Stolid Bull "family" and produce HEX limbs for my Black Thunder?
Up to now it's no problem to use your fine limbs with ILF but I think it could be interesting to get "special" ones for the limb system of the BT.
The BT natively uses the so-called Talenta system which you certainly know.
Holger


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

Stolid Bull said:


> @Borderbows
> Hi Sid,
> would you mind joining the Stolid Bull "family" and produce HEX limbs for my Black Thunder?
> Up to now it's no problem to use your fine limbs with ILF but I think it could be interesting to get "special" ones for the limb system of the BT.
> ...


I really dont see that as a problem. Martin Ottosson asked us to try making a adapter for ILF to Talenta. I think it worked. I have not seen the Talenta system in person, but i see no reason why we can meet some drawing specs or to an example...
We have improved the hex5 now, so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on our progress aswell. We have heard very good reports on your risers.

Send us an email and we can discuss some terms/ideas.

[email protected]

Sid


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Good to see that Stolid Bull is up and running. Best of luck with your venture.

Do you have a web address?


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## Zarrow (Sep 8, 2010)

Stolid Bull said:


> Not correct!
> I bought the brand and intellectual property and the rest of the former production.
> By the end of the year I will have a new series produced.
> Until then I have only a very small number of Black Thunder available.
> ...


Are you also going to be producing/selling Stolid Bull Attaco ?


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

buejeger67 said:


> Some recent pics as I have her set up for indoors...


Custom paint nice!!


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## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

Borderbows said:


> I really dont see that as a problem. Martin Ottosson asked us to try making a adapter for ILF to Talenta. I think it worked. I have not seen the Talenta system in person, but i see no reason why we can meet some drawing specs or to an example...
> We have improved the hex5 now, so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on our progress aswell. We have heard very good reports on your risers.
> 
> Send us an email and we can discuss some terms/ideas.
> ...


The adapters that Sid made works perfect! It converts any ILF limb to Talenta/Stolid Bull. However, there still is the option to buy the ILF conversion kit from the manufacturer of the Stolid Bull. I know that there are still a few kits laying around. For the Talenta however, there is no conversion kit available. If someone wants to use my design, feel free to do so. Sid should have the drawing and specs somewhere in his inbox. Or you can contact me, and I send you the specifications. 

Check this video out if you are interested: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=copFZkI3O7E&feature=g-upl

Its a kind of unpolished and rather long video, but it explains how the adapters work well I think. I didnt really do it to publish it, but just did it quick since I reveived some questions about the limb fitting and adapters on email.


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## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

grantmac said:


> I'm very surprised to see the long/heavy arrow and point-of-aim technique being used instead of stringwalking. I thought the Italians generally prefered skinny arrows and stringwalking.
> 
> -Grant


The heavy arrows are used in combination with string walking. It makes it possible to grip the string at a higher position closer to the nock, making the bow more calm and forgiving. Also, the arrows don´t act stiff, since they are so long. Especially archers with a bit stiff fingers, but a good and stable bowarm, can take a big benefit from the stability of the long arrows. I personally clearly gain points indoor with a setup like that compared to ACE:s.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

buejeger67 said:


> Running it at a midges tadger higher than 7.75 inches, smooth and quiet  70" bow


what is the poundage you are shooting with the brace height at 7.75? 

Chris


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## Borderbows (Apr 4, 2009)

MartinOttosson said:


> The adapters that Sid made works.


phew. and nice to see how they work. i had several visions of what they might do. but this makes it more clear.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I'd love to see the website (in English) for these new Stolid Bulls risers. Especially an ILF one would be brilliant.

What advantage does the Talenta system have over ILF? Do the adaptors adapt the limb to the riser or vice versa?

Martin: Good to know. I have shot in the NFAA Trad division which doesn't allow stringwalking so I use long arrows. Best score was a 275 18m FITA, I think I could do 280 with a bit more work.

-Grant


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## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

grantmac said:


> I'd love to see the website (in English) for these new Stolid Bulls risers. Especially an ILF one would be brilliant.
> 
> What advantage does the Talenta system have over ILF? Do the adaptors adapt the limb to the riser or vice versa?
> 
> ...


The adapters are fitted on the front side of the limb, on the part that goes down in the pocket. Go quickly through the video linked above and you will see how it works. What it does is to convert the ILF slot into a hole, where you then can add the weight adjustment system of Talenta. The limb system of Talenta is very stable and dampened compared to the often slightly loose ILF. ILF can sometimes cause noise. Also, you can adjust the length of the bow in two steps with Talenta and the system is really stable and simple to use. You can always change 2" up in length (or down depending on how you see it). My first bow is a 67 or 69 length bow, depending on where you put the limbs. This gives you a quite big range of pound settings in a pair of limbs.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

MartinOttosson said:


> The adapters are fitted on the front side of the limb, on the part that goes down in the pocket. Go quickly through the video linked above and you will see how it works. What it does is to convert the ILF slot into a hole, where you then can add the weight adjustment system of Talenta. The limb system of Talenta is very stable and dampened compared to the often slightly loose ILF. ILF can sometimes cause noise. Also, you can adjust the length of the bow in two steps with Talenta and the system is really stable and simple to use. You can always change 2" up in length (or down depending on how you see it). My first bow is a 67 or 69 length bow, depending on where you put the limbs. This gives you a quite big range of pound settings in a pair of limbs.


I see now. What I didn't see was if the Talenta plates (for lack of better term) go on the front or back of the limb butt? Also I have a neat idea of a way to make them adjustable without shims, if you are interested.

This also gave me a brain flash for a limb attachment system I want to try but wasn't sure how to execute. Lovely when that happens.

-Grant


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

> My first bow is a 67 or 69 length bow, depending on where you put the limbs.


Might be a way to play with tiller too.....uneven limb positions?


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

*Business is running*



Greysides said:


> Good to see that Stolid Bull is up and running. Best of luck with your venture.
> 
> Do you have a web address?


Yes I have! I registered www.stolid-bull.de www.stolid-bull.com www.stolidbull.de www.stolidbull.com
At this moment the stolid-bull.de is down due to shifting the content to another provider but the others are online and working. All with similar content, so it doesn't matter which one you chose.
Up to now everything is in German but I am working on it and I promise, it will improve.

I have only some risers available but the next production series starts in November. Last week I had a negotiation with the guys who do the metal works for me and we discussed some changes concerning a reduction of the multi-compatibility in favour of ILF.
The Black Thunder is originally adaptable from Talenta to ILF, Marksman, Samick an UB Logic (a German custom made producer).
The next production series will stay unchanged and I am nor sure whether to go the ILF way or not.

The lighter Version Attaco is available, too, but I have only two right handed risers left and at the moment it is rather unlikely that I will continue that model. Due to weight reducing necessity the limb pockets are not transformable like those of Black Thunder. The Attaco is limited to Talenta limbs. Whoever accepts that limitation will get a fantasic bow with the Attaco.


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

grantmac said:


> Also I have a neat idea of a way to make them adjustable without shims, if you are interested.
> 
> -Grant


Thanks for that proposal. The Rudi Weick limbs with Talenta fitting are equipped with an tiller adjustmend system which works without shims and can be adjusted without tools.


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

grantmac said:


> I'd love to see the website (in English) for these new Stolid Bulls risers. Especially an ILF one would be brilliant.
> 
> What advantage does the Talenta system have over ILF? Do the adaptors adapt the limb to the riser or vice versa?
> 
> ...


Hi Grant,
the most important advantage of the Talenta system is the snug fit in the riser.
Most ILF limbs and ILF limb pockets on normal risers have a bit play and the result is that they make noise and vibrate a bit.
The original Talenta limbs were produced by a swiss bow construction 'fanatic' and they have a legendary reputation in Europe.
The guy unfortunately died in the 90s and the production technique and the machinery went over to a German successor who not only produces the successors of those limbs but additionally the legendary Talanta riser.
I've shot the Talenta riser and found it not SO legendary. But so it is with legends...
Nevertheless the limbs fit very snug into the risers and that was the reason to adopt the general system to the Stolid Bull bows.
As time goes by, many techniques become improved and so it happened with the tiller system of the Stolid Bull limbs. Our limbs, manufactured by Rudi Weick from bamboo, reinforced with carbon and covered with fine precious wood veneer are equipped with a tiller system which is integrated into the limb and can be adjusted without tools. It is a kind of brass bolt which maintains its overall length during the screwing so that the snug fit in the guide grooves of the limb pocket is guaranteed.


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## Stolid Bull (Oct 4, 2012)

I have been working on my website and now you can get there some information on Stolid Bull and Black Thunder and more.
I have also added a link to the youtube video of Jessica Tomasi's final fight during the Italian indoor championship 2012 which opened this thread. I have added that link because there you have a direct comparison between a Black Thunder and a conventional riser, both shot as bare bow. The Black Thunder stands upright like a rock (ok ok ... a rock ... I am exaggerating, but you understand...) whereas the other bow kicks at every shot and rotates backwards.
I have added another video which I took this weekend in our training hall. I shot over 18 m (20 yards) and you can see what I described as a "rock". In that video I actually don't hold the bow in my hand. I used a leather sling to fix it to my wrist and the riser could have rotated freely if it had a tendency to do so.
You can find those video links on page Black Thunder - subpage Balance on www.stolid-bull.com

Enjoy!

ps:
Since English is not my native language you may find mistakes in writing, grammar or simply sentences which cannot be understood here or on my website. I would be very thankful if you could give me hints, where you found such mistakes. Only then I have a chance to correct and avoid them in the future.


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