# Rule question for field GURUs!!!!!!



## snakepliskin07 (Mar 10, 2007)

Ok, on the animal round I shoot my first arrow and cant tell if it is cutting the 19 line. It is to close to call with binos. I shoot my #2 arrow and it is in the dot. When I get up to the target can I score the first arrow or do I have to score arrow #2? Thanks


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Unless your shooting a double round were you shoot 2 arrows at each target unless your first arrow DOESN'T score you don't shoot a second arrow.


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## snakepliskin07 (Mar 10, 2007)

*??????*

I am talking about a single round. If you move up and shoot a secound arrow can the first arrow still be scored?


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## I BOW 2 (May 22, 2002)

Rules say that the lowest numbered arrow that scores a point (arrows are spposed to be numbered) is the one that counts. So if first arrow is a miss you are working on scoreing the second arrow for a reduced value. And if not sure if 1st arrow scored a wound or higher but is found to have done so, you will get the first arrow value.


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## snakepliskin07 (Mar 10, 2007)

*Thanks*

Thank you! i wanted to be shure!!!!!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

snakepliskin07 said:


> I am talking about a single round. If you move up and shoot a secound arrow can the first arrow still be scored?


No and why would you want to? If you shoot a 2nd arrow even hitting the bonus dot isn't going to give you "max score".

Your arrow lands in the animal your done for that target


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> No and why would you want to? If you shoot a 2nd arrow even hitting the bonus dot isn't going to give you "max score".
> 
> Your arrow lands in the animal your done for that target


What?? No mulligans?


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> No and why would you want to? If you shoot a 2nd arrow even hitting the bonus dot isn't going to give you "max score".
> 
> Your arrow lands in the animal your done for that target


I think the question was if your first arrow was too close to call on whether it would score or not. The point numbers might be confusing the issue.

If you shoot the first arrow on the animal target, and the arrow is close to the line between being a zero or an 18. You are not allowed to go examine the arrow. So you step up and shoot #2. When you get to the target, you find that arrow #1 did cut the line for an 18. Do you get an 18 for the first arrow, or the score of the 2nd arrow (17, 16 or 14).

This is for our field league. We're mixing in some animal targets so people can get exposure to scoring they normally would not. We want to make sure that in effect, once you shoot arrow #2, you are eliminating the score possiblity of arrow #1.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JawsDad said:


> I think the question was if your first arrow was too close to call on whether it would score or not. The point numbers might be confusing the issue.
> 
> If you shoot the first arrow on the animal target, and the arrow is close to the line between being a zero or an 18. You are not allowed to go examine the arrow. So you step up and shoot #2. When you get to the target, you find that arrow #1 did cut the line for an 18. Do you get an 18 for the first arrow, or the score of the 2nd arrow (17, 16 or 14).


Once you shoot that 2nd arrow it is the one that will be scored. So if you missed you get a 17 if you hit the dot.....if you caught the 18 :doh: and hit the dot you get a 17.....

Best thing to do is to don't shoot them that bad  or get some real good binos


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Another scoring question that we're wanting to clarify.

On the fan and assuming the following 

> Shooting positions 1, 2, 3 and 4 oriented left to right. 
> 4 targets on the butt (2 on top, 2 on the bottom).
> Shooting 2 archers at a time.


Would this be the correct method?

First 2 archers shoot the top 2 targets
2nd 2 archers shoot the bottom 2 targets

Shooting positions 1 and 2 would shoot the left target.
Shooting positions 3 and 4 would shoot the right target.


The reason we ask, some of our fans have a fairly wide spread due to a tree being in the middle of the lane. We're concerned about each archer shooting only a single target on all 4 positions due to the angle of attack of the arrow from position 1 versus position 4. Example in the picture attached.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> Once you shoot that 2nd arrow it is the one that will be scored. So if you missed you get a 17 if you hit the dot.....if you caught the 18 :doh: and hit the dot you get a 17.....
> 
> Best thing to do is to don't shoot them that bad  or get some real good binos


Agreed.. But it aint always that easy.. :doh:


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## The Swami (Jan 16, 2008)

JawsDad said:


> Another scoring question that we're wanting to clarify.
> 
> On the fan and assuming the following
> 
> ...


The first two archers shoot the bottom targets. Positions 1 and 2 are to be shot in the bottom left. Positions 3 and 4 in the bottom right.

The next two archers do the same on the upper targets.

On a fan all 4 can shoot at the same time. You just have to remember if you are the first group on the other targets and then only shoot the bottom targets while those who shoot second will be shooting the top 2 targets.

It is like indoors. The first two archers determined on the first target of the unit will shoot the bottom targets where they exist. They will do this for the 14 targets. 15 if it is the first unit of the day shot. The first target of the day is a warmup in most cases. Then the first 2 shooters will be the second two on the next unit shot, shooting second and the upper targets where they exist.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JawsDad said:


> Agreed.. But it aint always that easy.. :doh:


Sure it is


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> Sure it is


We can't all be like you Hornet.. :nono:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

JawsDad said:


> We can't all be like you Hornet.. :nono:


not about being like me....your gonna miss that whole animal though :doh:


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

scoring the animules, the first arrow that touches a scroing zone is the one that is counted.

if you shot your first arrow at 58yds and it was a maybe that really is, and you move up to 51yds and shoot a kill, only the first arrow counts.

you can shoot all 3, but only the first scoring arrow counts. the animal round is the nfaa's version of a speed round. remember the 3d mantra....it's quicker?

if you shoot all 3 out of numbered order but your first shot is the highest value, you'll only get the value of the #1 arrow. that is why it is insanely important to get into the habit of not just numbering your arrows but shooting them in numerical order.

by shooting every round in numerical arrow order, it reinforces that habit for the outdoor stuff.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> *Once you shoot that 2nd arrow it is the one that will be scored*. So if you missed you get a 17 if you hit the dot.....if you caught the 18 :doh: and hit the dot you get a 17.....
> 
> Best thing to do is to don't shoot them that bad  or get some real good binos


NEGATORY on that! IF the first arrow did indeed "cut the line", it WILL BE SCORED at that value for the FIRST arrow...but ONLY IF THE ARROW IS NUMBERED. If you don't have any NUMBERS on your arrows, then you WILL be scored the LOWER of the two arrows!

Again....you should shoot that second arrow IF you are uncertain that that first one has cut the line to score. If you are in the "body" of the animal and you are sure of it, then don't bother to shoot the second arrow...the FIRST ONE will score. If the first one is in the "kill" or even close to the kill but you aren't certain...why bother for the 2nd shot? You WILL get the value of that first shot. However, you CAN shoot that second arrow if you want to, and as long as it is physically labeled with a NUMBER, then you can opt to do it....won't make you popular because of the extra time...but you can opt to shoot it, just doesn't gain you anything.

You CANNOT, however, once you have decided not to take that second shot....go to the target, see that your first arrow did not cut the line in any scoring ring, and go back and shoot your 2nd arrow...NO WAY.

MOST field ranges use the COLOR CODE for the animal round with YELLOW STAKES...there should NOT be such a thing as a FAN on an animal round. There are 4 group sizes of animals, and the rules clearly explain how many of each group you shoot per 14-target unit, and the maximum and minimum distances for each "group" of animal faces. At State, Sectional, and National competitions, the group size distances are normally pretty close to maxed out.

IF you make a "mistake" in which arrow you shot first, you had better be for telling your group BEFORE you shoot that second arrow and also BEFORE you all leave the shooting stakes to go score...that "I goofed and shot my #2 arrow at this target first." If you make this boo-boo...and don't tell them this BEFORE you shoot another arrow...then you are in doo-doo, and it is going to cost you. Once your group has left the shooting stake area to go to the target to score, you CANNOT go back and make for a "do-over."
That is exactly why it is always a good procedure to number your arrows and ALWAYS shoot them in order!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

field14 said:


> NEGATORY on that! IF the first arrow did indeed "cut the line", it WILL BE SCORED at that value for the FIRST arrow...but ONLY IF THE ARROW IS NUMBERED. If you don't have any NUMBERS on your arrows, then you WILL be scored the LOWER of the two arrows!
> 
> Again....you should shoot that second arrow IF you are uncertain that that first one has cut the line to score. If you are in the "body" of the animal and you are sure of it, then don't bother to shoot the second arrow...the FIRST ONE will score. If the first one is in the "kill" or even close to the kill but you aren't certain...why bother for the 2nd shot? You WILL get the value of that first shot. However, you CAN shoot that second arrow if you want to, and as long as it is physically labeled with a NUMBER, then you can opt to do it....won't make you popular because of the extra time...but you can opt to shoot it, just doesn't gain you anything.
> 
> ...


That's not the way it was explained to me or how I interpret the rule...... Maybe I am mixing the going to the target thing in there or the person that explained it didn't explain it well :noidea: 

I'll just stick to keeping the 1st one solid so I don't have to wonder


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> That's not the way it was explained to me or how I interpret the rule...... Maybe I am mixing the going to the target thing in there or the person that explained it didn't explain it well :noidea:
> 
> I'll just stick to keeping the 1st one solid so I don't have to wonder


The person improperly explained it, or you completely misunderstood it. That first arrow you mentioned that may be "questionable" as to whether it cut the line or not.....and you get to the target and it DID cut the line...YOU GET THE VALUE OF THAT FIRST ARROW. However, if you elected NOT to shoot a 2nd arrow, figuring that "oh, it's close, but I "think" it cut the line...and it doesn't...then you just got yourself a fat ZERO on the target...cuz you cannot go back and shoot again once you've left the shooting stake area to go score; nor can you run up and look either.

ALWAYS shoot a second arrow if you are uncertain that the first one hit the animal within the lowest scoring area or not. Also, even if you are close to the "dot" and know you have the "20"...you ARE allowed to shoot a second arrow without penalty. If your #2 arrow hits the dot...nice "20"...you will NOT get the bonus point, and you will also NOT be penalized either.

Do NOT shoot extra arrows on the field/hunter faces however....If you shoot a 5th arrow, then you score the lowest 4 arrows and deduct a point...Thus you can have a "5X"...and end up with a 19 on the target cuz you shot an extra bullet! If on a fan or a walkup, that is a separate discussion, and correct scoring when you shoot arrows out of sequence or two from the same stake...gets tricky.

The reason for this in the animal round is the completely cut thru the line on the "hair-line" rule....and there are many times, even with the bestest binoculars that you cannot make that determination at the shooting stake. So, when UNSURE on the "hair-line" ALWAYS shoot that 2nd arrow...and if still unsure about either of those two...shoot the 3rd one.

field14 (Tom D>)


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

field14 said:


> The person improperly explained it, or you completely misunderstood it. That first arrow you mentioned that may be "questionable" as to whether it cut the line or not.....and you get to the target and it DID cut the line...YOU GET THE VALUE OF THAT FIRST ARROW. However, if you elected NOT to shoot a 2nd arrow, figuring that "oh, it's close, but I "think" it cut the line...and it doesn't...then you just got yourself a fat ZERO on the target...cuz you cannot go back and shoot again once you've left the shooting stake area to go score; nor can you run up and look either.
> 
> ALWAYS shoot a second arrow if you are uncertain that the first one hit the animal within the lowest scoring area or not. Also, even if you are close to the "dot" and know you have the "20"...you ARE allowed to shoot a second arrow without penalty. If your #2 arrow hits the dot...nice "20"...you will NOT get the bonus point, and you will also NOT be penalized either.
> 
> ...


Got cha :wink: who knows....probably a little of both.

However the part I highlighted in red doesn't make sense......If your first arrow is a "shakespeare" on the dot....why would you shoot a 2nd arrow. It's a 20 and the 2nd arrow can't possibly be scored higher then a 17..... pg 52 http://www.nfaa-archery.org/depot/documents/823-2009706-NFAA Constitution and By-Laws.pdf


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Got cha :wink: who knows....probably a little of both.
> 
> However the part I highlighted in red doesn't make sense......If your first arrow is a "shakespeare" on the dot....why would you shoot a 2nd arrow. It's a 20 and the 2nd arrow can't possibly be scored higher then a 17..... pg 52 http://www.nfaa-archery.org/depot/documents/823-2009706-NFAA Constitution and By-Laws.pdf


Some people, including me, just liked to shoot a 2nd arrow to make like the "chicken crossing the road"...as in, "Why did the chicken cross the road"? Simple.."The chicken crossed the road to PROVE to the racoons and the 'possums, and the squirrels...that it COULD BE DONE.!

The animal round doesn't penalize you for shooting "extra" arrows...as in, if the first arrow has scored...you are NOT going to get a LOWER value, nor are you going to get a higher value...but you are NOT penalized for shooting another "boolitt".
I see your reasoning of why bother....But if you shoot a "dot" with that first arrow..it is a "21", cuz there is now a "bonus point" for hitting the "dot" on the animal round (Mandatory in National And Sectional events, and by choice in local events)? Some guys/gals are of the mentality...I wonder if I would have needed a 2nd shot...if I can do it AGAIN (or not), haha
Others like to preserve their arrows and not risk it.

Shooting Rules:
A _maximum of three marked arrows may be shot, in successive order, and the highest
scoring arrow will count_. In the case of walk-up targets the first arrow must be shot from
the farthest stake, the second arrow from the middle stake, and the third arrow from the
nearest stake, in order to be scored. _No archer shall advance to the target and then return to
the stake to shoot again in the event of a missed arrow._
5. Scoring:
5.1 21, 20 or 18 for the first arrow
17, 16 or 14 for the second arrow
13, 12 or 10 for the third arrow
5.2 _In all NFAA Rounds, an arrow shaft need only touch the line to be counted in the
area of next higher value_.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Gottcha  :wink:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> Once you shoot that 2nd arrow it is the one that will be scored. So if you missed you get a 17 if you hit the dot.....if you caught the 18 :doh: and hit the dot you get a 17.....
> 
> Best thing to do is to don't shoot them that bad  or get some real good binos


Wrong Hornet the first arrow would score, on the animal round, you can shoot a 2nd arrow with no penalty if you aren't sure if the first one scored...


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

psargeant said:


> Wrong Hornet the first arrow would score, on the animal round, you can shoot a 2nd arrow with no penalty if you aren't sure if the first one scored...


Even if you are absolutely sure its in the spot, you can shoot a second and then a third arrow with no penalty. Bad marks or whatever, it's the only chance for a practice shot you get in NFAA. Tends to po those that are shooting with you too, if that is the goal.


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## snakepliskin07 (Mar 10, 2007)

*Thanks*



Brown Hornet said:


> Once you shoot that 2nd arrow it is the one that will be scored. So if you missed you get a 17 if you hit the dot.....if you caught the 18 :doh: and hit the dot you get a 17.....
> 
> Best thing to do is to don't shoot them that bad  or get some real good binos


Well we all cant be the stud that you are!!!!! Dont need shooting tips just the rules. Thanks.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> not about being like me....your gonna miss that whole animal though :doh:


I very well could miss the entire thing... But when I miss, it's not going to be a question on a line cutter, it's going to be a BIG miss..  Now with Kasey (snakepliskin07), he's not going to miss so it's not an issue for him. :wink:


We have many that are going to be shooting our league that are completely new to field and shooting anything over 30-40 yards so this question will certainly come about. 



Thanks to all for the clarifications.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

snakepliskin07 said:


> Well we all cant be the stud that you are!!!!! Dont need shooting tips just the rules. Thanks.


Come on.. It's not AT if we don't get answers infused with rhetoric.


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## snakepliskin07 (Mar 10, 2007)

*Thanks*



field14 said:


> Some people, including me, just liked to shoot a 2nd arrow to make like the "chicken crossing the road"...as in, "Why did the chicken cross the road"? Simple.."The chicken crossed the road to PROVE to the racoons and the 'possums, and the squirrels...that it COULD BE DONE.!
> 
> The animal round doesn't penalize you for shooting "extra" arrows...as in, if the first arrow has scored...you are NOT going to get a LOWER value, nor are you going to get a higher value...but you are NOT penalized for shooting another "boolitt".
> I see your reasoning of why bother....But if you shoot a "dot" with that first arrow..it is a "21", cuz there is now a "bonus point" for hitting the "dot" on the animal round (Mandatory in National And Sectional events, and by choice in local events)? Some guys/gals are of the mentality...I wonder if I would have needed a 2nd shot...if I can do it AGAIN (or not), haha
> ...


Thanks Tom D. I was talking about shooting a (18) not 19. Sorry for the mix up. You are my go to guy for field info.:wink:


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