# Should Michael Vincent be banned?



## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


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## tweeter196 (Jun 9, 2009)

My feeling is that he should indeed make public apology.....re-pay all winnings from this year.......be banned for the year both IBO and ASA....and be given ONE! opportunity to compete in the future......if caught cheating again then ban him for life.....again this is only my opinion


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## HADS DAD (May 11, 2004)

Ban him for good, once a cheater, always a cheater.


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## shootingzeros (Jul 19, 2008)

VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


Well Put!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


Most sensible response I've seen yet.


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## S4 300-60 (Mar 18, 2003)

I meant to vote for a ban in both, not be allowed to shoot in both......so the poll is skewed....


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

I believe a one year suspension is in order, you can not without a shadow of doubt prove he used them before this weekend. So demanding he return any winnings. The IBO is in a catch 22 situation, since they did not catch him. So I wouldnt imagine them doing anything. If he was to fess up and return all winnings, I would be shocked. He stayed around yesterday and finished his round, then hung around the vender area like nothing happening. That to me shows his intent. I do hope he is man enough to bring his son and focus on what is more important that winning.


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## ohiobullseye (Feb 6, 2011)

I think for sure be ban from ASA for that he was caught cheating during their tournament. IBO will have to keep a close eye on him after this.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


Well said! Everyone needs a second chance, being titled a cheater will loom along time..........


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## 2wyoming (Sep 5, 2007)

agreed. 


tmorelli said:


> Most sensible response I've seen yet.


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## BAArcher (Feb 5, 2004)

I know he is not the only person to be caught cheating. Let him do a suspension, write an apology, then return. If he can live with the embarrassment and peer pressure,...it will start him back on the road to being a better person.


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## TDA (Mar 6, 2012)

Do you really think one year is enough? this year is almost half way thru at this point. I would say a minimum of two years. 
As for the IBO. The evidence against him shooting is circumstantial at the IBO events even if those of us who shoot and have shot at the semi pro/pro level knows that there is no way he shot the score he posted without help. At least now we know the score makes more sense. I say they let him shoot. I would bet money he doesn't shoot up at an IBO event anytime soon. He knows what he did. He also knows that now he's been exposed. It will take a HUGE pair for him to even show his face let alone shoot. 
No matter what he decides, he has earned himself an indelible stigma. No one will forget...


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## RASIB (Nov 30, 2006)

This was not a mistake, it was a very deceptive action that took thought. I believe that in the legal world stealing 400.00 is a felony. How is this really that much different?


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Is it so vastly different from folks that are caught speeding in ASA? I have never seen or heard of a lifetime, 1 year, 1 shoot, or any other type of ban for speeders.

What about the novice that was shooting with a lens in TX? 

What about the SR pro that was caught a few years ago ranging the shootdown targets and was DQ'd?

There is no precedent here for a ban of any type, and there is nothing in the rules that I am aware of that would bring in an automatic ban.........

Let him keep shooting, he will be under tight scrutiny anyway.


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## TDA (Mar 6, 2012)

Lets look at an analogy....
In the NFL a defense has a way to hear all of the Offensive huddles and therefore know all of the plays, where they are going to line up, and who they are throwing the ball to. The same team just won two playoff games. Should they be allowed to play in the championship game? Would they be fined or banned?
Lets face it...this sport has it's flaws. Any sport where your direct competitors have a say in whether a call should go your way or not has it's suspect tendencies . That being said, we as participants in this sport have a certain level of integrity. Most of us at that level have shot together on many occasions. We also know the time and dedication it takes to perform at the semi pro and pro level. There is NO excuse. To let him keep shooting would open the door to more cheating. If there is no punishment, more people will give it a try until they get caught. Speeding isn't even in this ballpark people.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

There have been shooters that have either broke the rules.....given a penalty...and moved on.....some have quit shooting.....this is no ones choice on any of the messageboards.....this has to do with the rules committee and their sanctioning along with the tour director..... Scuttlebutt....is scuttlebutt.....let those have the rules to govern...do so.....shoot what about all the people that didn't have collar shirts going out to shoot...


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

The Patriots cheated to win a Superbowl. They got their hand slapped.
I shot a local 3-D on Saturday and looking at the scores after shooting it myself leads me to believe that CHEATING was all over the place.

Cheating in today's messed up society is no longer rare, it's the norm.

As far as this guy.......
Now everyone knows he's a cheater. Everyone knows and he'll be watched like a Hawk watches a rabbit.
Everywhere he goes from now on the officials will be all over him.
He made his bed, let him sleep in it.

My .02


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## Shoot'n Smart (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree with you on this! He needs to do it mostly for his child that loves the sport ,but for himself as well! This sport will not grow without our children involved and that's why ASA is so involved with all the kids.


VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

What is the difference from shooting over the 288fps limit, that is grounds for DQ 
So the guy got caught with a range finder he was cheating he got DQ'd 
If you get caught with a 295fps bow what happens??????


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## bowsrd (Jan 15, 2012)

rock77 said:


> What is the difference from shooting over the 288fps limit, that is grounds for DQ
> So the guy got caught with a range finder he was cheating he got DQ'd
> If you get caught with a 295fps bow what happens??????


Exactly!!!!!


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

dang I cant beleive anyone would expext him to not be banned for life.There was a guy in NC who was banned for several years just because of an arguement not for breaking any rules.He is no less than a cheater and thieve.
As for him being aloud to shoot cause of his kid no freakn way. If the rules didnt obtain to people cause they have kids involved then it would be a big free for all.


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## shaffer88 (Dec 3, 2007)

Thats fine ban for a year. . But until someone proves that he cheated previously. Let him keep his money he will need it by not competing next year. .and the should only ban from him from the org that has proved he cheated. So he should be able to compete in ibo next year.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## keb73 (Oct 15, 2003)

VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


Yes..this right here..


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


Mike in most cases I would agree with you. But Michael went to great lengths to cover this up. Knowing him as you do it was a great shock and I was extremely disappointed in him. Both of my sons looked up to him but his actions have destroyed their trust in him. I was also there listening to him say it was the first time he used them and he didn't know it was wrong. He acted like he was getting a warning for taking to long to shoot. Nothing to it. This was the most flagrant cheating that I have ever witnessed and for him to downplay it shocked me. He even continued to shoot after Don confiscated his card. Like he had done no wrong.

I was told he was doing it Saturday and I guess the man stood up and protested him. He said MV has used these binos for a long time. That they are the ones he "always" uses. I lost all respect for him. 

As for his son that is devistatating. But he has the chance to teach his son that cheating should be punished and not rewarded. I hope MV will admit his guilt and not play it off like I saw him trying to do on the range and show his son how to be a man and take responsibility for his actions. His son will have to find a way to deal with his fathers shame, unfortunately. He is a great kid and I hope there will be a path for him to be the great archer I know he can be without the distraction of his fathers faults.


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## CANDYBOATWRIGHT (Dec 4, 2008)

well said mike...


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I would give him the choice to give back all the winnings he ever made in the asa shoots and then restrict him to shoot known 50 for the rest of his life. If he didn't agree to comply with the decision then ban for life.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

reylamb said:


> Is it so vastly different from folks that are caught speeding in ASA? I have never seen or heard of a lifetime, 1 year, 1 shoot, or any other type of ban for speeders.
> 
> What about the novice that was shooting with a lens in TX?
> 
> ...


Your correct and we have seen this before. One thing for sure he will be watched like a hawk and never respected again.
Some may be nice but will never forget.
DB


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


Exactly! I truly feel sorrow for his son. I wonder if he has lied to him as well.

Somehow I suspect he'll come up with some kind of tragic tale as to why he cheated and claim this was the very first time. I'm sure at all the other shoots where he used the "binos" he made sure the battery wasn't in them! :wink: He just forgot this time, honest! He put the Alpen sticker on them so people wouldn't think he was showing off by having Zeiss glass.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

reylamb said:


> Is it so vastly different from folks that are caught speeding in ASA? I have never seen or heard of a lifetime, 1 year, 1 shoot, or any other type of ban for speeders.
> 
> What about the novice that was shooting with a lens in TX?
> 
> ...


There is a HUGE difference and you know it! Heck, I could even be competitive at the top of Semi-Pro with a range finder! I'm serious and confident that I'm not talking out my butt. 292 fps isn't a real big advantage over 285 fps. Having the precise yardage on every target at every tournament is huge.

I dare say conservatively a rangefinder is worth *10*points in a tournament depending on how good an archer is at judging yardage honestly. Sometimes it would be worth a LOT more. You would NEVER have a chance of really blowing the yardage on a target. Even the best Pro's have had a bad run of targets but with a range finder that is taken out of the equation. He shot tournaments never doubting his yardage. He never had to wonder whether it was yardage or his shooting that cause him to hit an 8 instead of a 12. 

Is there anything that would be a bigger advantage for most good 3D'ers than using a rangefinder? I don't think so.


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> There is a HUGE difference and you know it! Heck, I could even be competitive at the top of Semi-Pro with a range finder! I'm serious and confident that I'm not talking out my butt. 292 fps isn't a real big advantage over 285 fps. Having the precise yardage on every target at every tournament is huge.
> 
> I dare say conservatively a rangefinder is worth *10*points in a tournament depending on how good an archer is at judging yardage honestly. Sometimes it would be worth a LOT more. You would NEVER have a chance of really blowing the yardage on a target. Even the best Pro's have had a bad run of targets but with a range finder that is taken out of the equation. He shot tournaments never doubting his yardage. He never had to wonder whether it was yardage or his shooting that cause him to hit an 8 instead of a 12.
> 
> Is there anything that would be a bigger advantage for most good 3D'ers than using a rangefinder? I don't think so.


It doesn't matter it is still cheating. sure you may benefit more from a rangefinder but that doesn't mean speeding isn't as bad it's all cheating!!!


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## RASIB (Nov 30, 2006)

This goes beyond the use of the range finder. This is unsportsmanlike conduct at its worst.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

according to the ASA rules he should be disqualified for that day of shooting and the IBO did not catch him doing anything wrong


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## murph62 (Aug 26, 2007)

VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.[/QUOT
> I agree with this 100%...my son Luke Orsburn is also one of garretts friends in senior eagle ...your right everyone needs to remember there is a outstanding young boy involved in this too..


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

i would say, half the people on this thread and that shoot in the ibo and asa have cheated on there wives lets bann them too .how about there kids .the asa has rules in place.will they be as hard as some would like.no will this maybe want them to take a look at changing them ,i would say it will.all sin has consequences,i would like to see him man up and apologize .it will be hard to face the people .what if he won the next turn, with new bino to show he really can judge yards.i back the asa and there rules just remember all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of god.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

JimmyP said:


> i would say, half the people on this thread and that shoot in the ibo and asa have cheated on there wives lets bann them too .how about there kids .the asa has rules in place.will they be as hard as some would like.no will this maybe want them to take a look at changing them ,i would say it will.all sin has consequences,i would like to see him man up and apologize .it will be hard to face the people .what if he won the next turn, with new bino to show he really can judge yards.i back the asa and there rules just remember all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of god.


you are right on most Jimmy and I respect your post however, I have never cheated on my wife of 24 yrs, he has won money using these and this it going to get ugly regardless, Jimmy try to get roger g address and send to me via pm so we can mail his check


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## Double B (Feb 20, 2007)

JimmyP said:


> i would say, half the people on this thread and that shoot in the ibo and asa have cheated on there wives lets bann them too .how about there kids ..... just remember all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of god.


I would say you dont have a clue. Kinda funny wanting to quote from the Bible and yet you are judging "half the people" But for the topic he has to live with it now, but what choices will he now make while shooting in the future? The right ones I hope


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## hunter terrior (May 15, 2008)

I voted who cares. Simply because who cares. His name is trash and banning him is way too easy. What's worse being banned or showing up to a shoot with all the rumblings? Let him shoot, he will probably never live it down, then again who knows. Suspend him for the rest of the year and give him a hefty fine and archery community service if he wants in again. As far as people discussing new rules. No reason the rules are there and they work. This case being the proof.


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

I don't think he will ever get a close call again!


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

this is bad people have a right to be mad.cory got shafted in monroe.the question is what will make everyone happy.can it be fixed.totally banned,one year ,two five new rules added.how can you make so many people happy that are mad and have a right to be.


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## tntone (Aug 13, 2006)

michael has been on here several times since this got out and he hasn't typed one word of appology, nothing. he should start a thread with his appology, reason for doing what he did, and how he will make it right... the thread should be closed and a mod can keep it on the first page for a few days...


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## winger (Nov 15, 2004)

Here is my thoughts. I didnt make it to Paris. I shoot semi pro, and he cheated in Louisiana, that means he stole money from all of us. Thats my thoughts. I do believe he should be banned for a lifetime. Its the same crap that Pete Rose got a lifetime ban just for betting on games, and thats not as bad as cheating to win. I am also a IBO state rep and if it was up to me I wouldnt let him shoot a IBO event. Cheating is also stealing. How many shooters do you think lost there cool when that went down? Thats thoughts on this


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Lifetime Banned is what I think should happen if this is proven true.....sad to think someone would have to pad there ego and attempt to win in this fashion


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## aggie2000tx (May 3, 2006)

Listen guys the written rules are what ASA is going to go by. No one caught him at La so Paris was his first official offense. The written rule states that first offense you are dq'ed. The second offense he is banned for the remainder of the season. They can not and will not change the rules or go against what the written rules that are published. If ASA was do do something than what it states in the written rules it would open up a big can of worms.


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## JRD84 (Jan 14, 2012)

Lots of people feel the DQ isn't enough but the ASA rules state 1st offence DQ not a ban. So if they ban him they would also be breaking the rules and what kind of example would that set?
That's just my onion.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Xparent Green Tapatalk


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Baby k it's proven. No ifs. It happened. This could wind up being a big mess. There was an issue in women's pro last year to during the IL pro am that was kept hush hush....... Maybe time to spill the beans on that too!

Tired of the cheating, lies, secrets and not treating everyone the same.

JD, they can and have went from a simple DQ to a full ban in one stroke. Its a privately owned business, he can do what he wants.


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## mtmedic (Sep 20, 2004)

VeroShooter said:


> I shoot in his class and his son shoots in my sons class. I was saddened that this occurred. I feel that he should apologize in public, return winnings from events and stand up like a man and shoot at a national event. This should all be done becuase he has a young son in Senior Eagle that is a fine young man and very competitive and this is going to devastate him. This is the kind of event that creates a turning point in a kids life that will define him later. If his dad is allowed to accept responsibility and begin to make amends then the boy can have something to appreciate in his father. I know many will feel otherwise but I feel when a person a makes a mistake, it is his response that truly defines what kind of person he is. I would like to see his response if he is given the chance to admit it, apologize and begin to re-build.


This is by far the best response I've seen related to this scandal. I agree whole heartedly!


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## aiden716 (Jan 29, 2010)

Im sure this issue will be in the forefront for some time, but there MUST be a chart of sanctions within the asa, ibo!! rules are rules and you must abide by them. I do not know this man and he should be judged for his actions and the sanctions.... not by emotion, fair is fair he should not be hung if the rules say so.. I think there should be a chart of sanctions so that there is uniformity. Yes he cheated and took monetary compensation for that!!! I believe that should be considered in the sanctions!!! as far as his son goes that should be punishing as it is, he must live with that! If he refuses to return winnings then a ban is really the only option...... just my opinion...


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

Every man is worthy of a second chance, there needs to be an apology, pentalty, suspension for this first offense!


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

Wonder if this comes in a collared version...


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