# Should I let down?



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi,

I am finally at a point where I can feel a "good" draw/ anchor on my bow, particularly with regards to my jaw anchor and my release arm.

At this point should I let down and start again if it feels off or should I go through with it to get arrows shot?

And some techie advice please....

I'm shooting a mission rally at +\_ 60#
Sweet spot hinge (upgraded from wrist recently)
0.10 spring blade( upgraded from WB)
No stabs.
This is my grouping at 16M









I haven't bought stabs as I figured they would "hide" bad form. With that sort of grouping is it a good time to start looking into it? And if so should I only look at a single front stab to start with and then add a side later?

Thanks

PS. I say a good draw.... Possibly consistent is a better word. I have lost my form pics and will take some this weekend for your scrutiny.


----------



## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

if it feels bad DONT shoot it.... you must refuse to shoot BAD shots.. stabilizers are made to help you hold better...and help you execute the shot better.and get the float smaller.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Ok cool, thanks.


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Good question & Mike is right.

I've asked this same question of quite a few professional archers, including several who have been all the way to the top. ALL say to let down. Never let yourself shoot a bad shot.

See post #10 in this thread:

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2337157

Jacob gives us a few more details on how to do this.

Letting down is one of the harder shots in archery, but it's also one of the best shots. 

Allen


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks for the link, heading there now.


----------



## rkumetz (Jun 20, 2014)

There is no question that if something doesn't feel right you let it down.
You wouldn't drive your car if something felt funny with the brakes would you?


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

As said before, it's better not to shoot bad shots. What I have done is built in some "checkpoints" through my sequence. When I draw and come to anchor that's a point where I check to see how my set up felt and if I should let down. The next part is if I can get the pin on the ten ring before I start my execution. Then the last point is during execution, if I have a hang up or can't get the shot to go off, if the sight picture starts looking funny, I lose concentration, anything out of the norm, I'll let down then. 

The part you have to understand about that though is that sometime you aren't going to be able to let down. If you're on the line in a tournament and under a clock and it's too close, you'll have to shoot the shot anyways. That's when analyzing what went wrong and correcting that comes into play. And sometimes that's better than a ten.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you all again,

You mentioned sight picture.
I'm finding my eyes fuzz out sometimes. In one of the threads they spoke about bad breathing technique causing it. I have started trying to get a repeatable breathing pattern now which has helped a lot. Would that be the most likely cause? Other than my eyes starting to give up on me lol.


----------



## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

dont hold your breath...........


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

It could be the breathing or lack of breathing. Your brain can only focus on something for so long though too, and after that point you'll lose focus somewhere. It could be the cause of the blur. How long in before it starts usually?


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Sorry, had a busy day at work.

It's normally between starting release and the actual shot release. Come to think of it, I think it's often when something's going wrong and the release hasn't fired so I'm now trying to sort out what's wrong on my release side...


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi,

Any input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Breath a couple of times before you draw to oxygenate yourself. Then breath in as you draw . Slowly let it out as you shoot if you run out of breath you took too long let down and start over. From reaching anchor shot should break <7 seconds and +-1 second each time you shoot run some video on yourself 10 or 20 shots should be consistent if not work to get there letting down mentally when you hit 10 sec. Easier said than done but the best do it


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 3, 2010)

Anytime the shot isn't prepared you let down. Executing shots not prepared establishes a faulty shot sequence & you are ingraining bad habits. I'm also not in favor of fixing a part of your form on the fly. Find what part of your sequence is failing & work it out on the bail. Fixing like patchwork will lead to greater problems in the future & a sequence guaranteed to break down. Good Luck


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you.


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

So I noticed in your picture your body isn't aligned. Meaning your shoulders are pointing one direction and your hips a different direction. More specifically, you hips are more to the left of your upper body(shoulders). I also noticed in the original post the picture you posted has your groups about the same height but spread left and right with you two worst fliers missing left. This could be caused by your upper body fighting your lower body. As you're pulling through the shot your upper body is aligning itself with your lower and those two fliers to the left were probably on shots where you held a long time, got tired, and your upper body gave way on its tension and twisted left to align with the lower body. 

If this is the case, read my article titled, "Two Left Feet, Stance Alignment." Other than that, your form is pretty solid and should allow you to shoot well and adapt over time to fine tune your hold and shot execution.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

naptalene said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 2059835


Disagree.

Form is not solid.

Feet are way too far apart. Legs like a pyramid, will make the hip joint unstable.
Better to have the legs vertical, and then your hip joints are self centering,
when the legs are vertical. So, pull the shoes closer and closer and closer together,
until you have vertical legs.

BURN into your brain GOOD habits,
GOOD solid form,
and you will get GOOD SOLID results.

You are not ready to train at 16 meters.

TRAIN For success at 2 meters.
Burn in EXCELLENT habits at 2 meters.

Then,
after you MASTER 2 meters,
then,
work on building excellent habits at 3 meters.

Sooo,
HOW to build EXCELLENT habits,
SHOT discipline...

DECIDING if I should let down
DECIDING if I should take the shot?



LEARNING how to listen to the "LITTLE VOICE" in your head.

When my online students are READY,
I put them through a RIGOROUS STRESS TEST.

WHEN I feel they are ready,
I ask them to do a multi-day test.

I say at their CURRENT training distance (it varies for each student)
I have them shoot a fletched arrow from the duct tape shooting line.
Hang up the bow.
Pull out the arrow.
BAck to the shooting line.

Fire the fletched arrow a second time.
Arrow must nail the middle.

The student keeps firing the arrow
the ONE arrow
into the middle
and the TEST ENDS when THEY MISS.

So,
no time limit.

So,
the test is designed to go multiple DAYS.

Maybe they call it quits after 10 arrows in a ROW, on day 1,
EVERYTHING Nails the middle.

Then,
the next time they continue the test,
they might FEEL GOOD
and push all the way to a total of 40 arrows in a ROW,
DEAD in the middle.

Then, they decide that's enough for the 2nd day.

This student hit 140 shots in the MIDDLE in a row,
until they missed the FIRST TIME.

SHOT discipline.
RESULTS based training
LEARNING how to listen to the "LITTLE VOICE" that the SHOT SETUP is not PERFECT.

YOU should try this exercise at 2 meters
and see if you can STUFF ONE arrow
say FIVE times in a row,
into the SAME hole, inside the MIDDLE.

Then,
see if you can do a SIXTH arrow,
into the middle, at 2 meters.

IF you FEEL your batteries are NOT 100%,
do NOT try and save it,
LET down,
breathe in
breathe out
and full recharge your batteries to 100%.

Then,
see if your next attempt to get to FULL DRAW,
FEELS PERFECT.

Your goal is to get to 10 SHOTS,
with ONE arrow in your quiver,
and EXECUTE 10 PERFECT shots from just 2 METERS.

Now,
you may require 15 ATTEMPTS
to execute 10 PERFECT SHOTS...(this means, your LITTLE VOICE sounded an alarm 5 TIMES).

LISTEN to your GUT,
your INSTINCTS
your LITTLE voice.

TRAIN for GREAT results at 2 meters,
and work your way to 3 meters.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

A different student of mine.
SAME style of training.





THIS is his training target
after firing SIXTY ARROWS.

TRAIN for success.
YOu decide what is "good enough" at your training distance.
Then,
when you master say 2 meters,
then,
master 3 meters.

When you MASTER 3 meters,
then,
you work on mastering 4 METERS.

THIS student of mine,
with my training techniques,
training MASSIVELY at short distances...

cuz I told him
the STRONGER he builds his foundation at SHORT distance,
the EASIER his training will be at the LONGER distances.

He hit his FIRST 300 60X, shooting the 5 spot target,
after 11 months of work. That same month,
he shot a 300 60X three times.

So,
that same month,
the FIRST time he tried the Vegas target face,
he nailed a 300 23 X.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks. 

I've seen photos of those single holes and thrown my hands up in despair lol.

So come right down on distance,
Get feet/ legs in the correct position.
Remove twist from my body
Practice single arrows as described.
Let down if anything feels wrong immediately

I'll get onto that, again thanks to everyone for your answers. It's much appreciated.
And for all the downloads like the "nuts and bolts" etc. I only get to shoot a tiny bit in the evenings in my backyard so all this info/help is a really great resource. 

Much respect.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Ive done some rounds.......

I definately wasnt good for 16M lol.
Stuff I've notice......

The difference in the legs is amazing. Its almost impossible to roll your backside around, and your stomach just tighten up.
Being so close I suddenly picked up that on good shots, when I turn off the safety on the sweet spot release the pin doesnt move, bad shots it dips way down then I unwittingly compensate.
And a weird mental thing....
At 16M if I missed by 2" it "Was okay"
At 2M if I'm just off its gutwrenching.....

My best is 2 
Im aiming for 30 which is a VERY long way off, but I's very enjoyable and I'm letting down a whole load.

Thanks,


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Hello,

Just wanted to say thanks, I'm 1/3 of the way there.
11th shot ruined it

This is at 3M


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

simply put, your stance, in general should look and feel like you are just relaxed, standing around "natural-like". all that wide spread legs and stiff bow arm indicates way too much tenseness, in your shot. your draw length looks a bit long, as well, adding to the "all tensed up" stance and lean.


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Keep at this my coach does this routine with his archers and has turned out many world / national champions feels silly at2 or 5 yards but the results absolutely cannot be challenged they are just building the foundation.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you both.

I tried relaxing a bit and I tightened my group and hit 11 straight immediately. Then I progressively became sloppier

I also noticed I immediately opened my stance a bit when I relaxed overall.

It would seem I need to find the middle ground, but I will give the rigid stance preferance to avoid bad habits at this point as I'm on my own


----------



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Nope we are in it with you just need to be your own filter


----------



## PSE Archer (Oct 26, 2014)

naptalene said:


> Sorry, had a busy day at work.
> 
> It's normally between starting release and the actual shot release. Come to think of it, I think it's often when something's going wrong and the release hasn't fired so I'm now trying to sort out what's wrong on my release side...


This is one important cue. Anytime you have to back up in the shot process - that is your key to let down and start over. Once on the target stay on the target. If you leave the target to try to "figure something out" - let down. The proces is not meant to run backwards.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

well said. 
any time you question, or hesitate in the production of the shot building to it's end, it's a good idea to abandon that set up and start over. not doing it and pushing the shot process to go on, only works to support and reinforce the problem that caused the hesitation. 
that is exactly what the "let down drills" are for. they teach the shot process, run correctly without producing the problems that cause reason to let down. in their function, you are teaching the shot process that if it is not going to run correctly, it is not going to run at all.
tough love !.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

I've been camping with the family and just got back  excuse my late reply (and lack of practice lol)

Would it be fair to say the following:

If at any point, my brain questions a previous "step" in setup - let down?

So I address target, set grip, set release in my hand, align bow, draw, anchor, un hitch safety( TruBall ss2) but now think my grip feels funny, let down as that is something from before that shouldn't be bugging me?

And another cool thing about this short range stuff is I couldn't care less about score. I care about groups and if I shoot a stinker.... It's gone and I try figure out why it was horrible - it doesn't make me nervous about getting "a score"


----------



## PSE Archer (Oct 26, 2014)

naptalene said:


> I've been camping with the family and just got back  excuse my late reply (and lack of practice lol)
> 
> Would it be fair to say the following:
> 
> ...


You would be correct. When you backed up in the process you changed the process. The process changed - the outcome may change. Not to say you will not shoot and x, but you allowed yourself to change and continue forward. This is a habit that need not be enforced.


----------



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

right, the only actions that should be supported and reinforced are positive actions that culminate in the shot breaking well. anything that is contrary to this end, should be abandoned by a let down.. you have get it in your head that a let down is not a "failure to complete", but rather a "refusal to complete, incorrectly".
with that decidedly,..... shall we say "stubborn attitude"..... any inconsistency in your shot process, is reinforced, by allowing the shot to go on without reprimand. that let down, is the same thing to your shot process, as you telling a four or five year old to "walk, when you are carrying a pair of scissors" if you don't tell him, he'll think it's OK to run.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you all again.

I would appreciate your input on the sight bubble. I pretty much always look at the target, not my sight. I'm drawing with my head upright, looking straight ahead. When I come to anchor I'm "seeing through" the sight/pin. This is when I check my bubble....
I never stop focusing on my target. And I don't check the bubble again.... Is it common practice to check it again?

I think the best description would be:
Anchor,
Check bubble,
Aim,
Start engine...

And I never focus on sight itself, the bubble/pin is always in my peripheral vision.


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

Hello,

But of an update/ question with my new to me bow. 

Darton 5000pro.

The module on it is 28"
On my Rally I ran 27"
The agent is in another city and I'm not sure whether I should get a 27 or 27.5"
Any input based on this picture would be appreciated.
(The Orange nock is 20mm from the tip of it to the arrow shaft)









I'm assuming I'm long due to me leaning back?


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

naptalene said:


> Thank you all again.
> 
> I would appreciate your input on the sight bubble. I pretty much always look at the target, not my sight. I'm drawing with my head upright, looking straight ahead. When I come to anchor I'm "seeing through" the sight/pin. This is when I check my bubble....
> I never stop focusing on my target. And I don't check the bubble again.... Is it common practice to check it again?
> ...


I apologize for missing this post.

I'd recommend that you change your sequence to:
-anchor
-calibrate - put the pin in the general area of the X
-begin engine
-aim
-follow through

If you aim and then begin your firing engine, you are interrupting your focus on aiming. The idea is for your firing engine to take long enough to complete that you have time to aim before it goes off. You can adjust your release to fire faster or slower as necessary. Of course this requires that you hold the release in your hand exactly the same way every time.

On you post of the 16th, IMO, you should get the module that is shorter than the one in the photo. If that's the 28" module, go with the 27.5" module. Your DL is pretty close. Try lowering your bow shoulder. You may not need a different module, just some cable & string adjustments to get the DL right for you.

Allen


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

naptalene said:


> Thank you all again.
> 
> I would appreciate your input on the sight bubble. I pretty much always look at the target, not my sight. I'm drawing with my head upright, looking straight ahead. When I come to anchor I'm "seeing through" the sight/pin. This is when I check my bubble....
> I never stop focusing on my target. And I don't check the bubble again.... Is it common practice to check it again?
> ...


I apologize for missing this post.

I'd recommend that you change your sequence to:
-anchor
-calibrate - put the pin in the general area of the X
-begin engine
-aim
-follow through

If you aim and then begin your firing engine, then go back to aiming, you are interrupting your focus on aiming. The idea is for your firing engine to take long enough to complete that you have time to aim before it goes off. You can adjust your release to fire faster or slower as necessary. Of course this requires that you hold the release in your hand exactly the same way every time.

Adjust your rear stabilizer so that the bubble is level without checking it. The fewer things you have to do at full draw the better. Of course this requires a very consistent bow hand.

On you post of the 16th, IMO, you should get the module that is on step shorter than the one in the photo. If that's the 28" module, go with the 27.5" module. Your DL is pretty close already. Try lowering your bow shoulder. You may not need a different module, just some cable & string adjustments to get the DL right for you. You are close enough that you should base your DL changes on results, not whether it looks right to someone on the internet.

Allen


----------



## naptalene (Oct 8, 2012)

That is the 28" in the picture, so I'll go ahead and get the 27.5"

And I will adjust my sequence accordingly and see how it goes.

Cheers


----------

