# Back Tension Release - Practice Routine



## TightString (Mar 17, 2011)

Hello,

Started using a back tension release where I previously used triggers. I do about 30 arrows at 10yd then move the target out to 20 or 30 yd. When I get out to about 50 arrows for the day, I start launching arrows and don't seem to be able to get the back tension to release the shot. Using the trigger release I can easily do 150 arrows for the day. Once I either get to 50 arrows or start launching arrows, should I stop for the day? It's pretty hard to go from shooting half way decent with the trigger then going to shooting 10 yd for only 50 arrows then going home. Doesn't make for a fun outing.

Any other suggestions to keep me encouraged to continue using the BT release?

Thanks!!


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

Make sure you are relaxing your forearm and allow the tension to go to your back. If you are getting this correct and the issue is fatigue in your back, allow time to develop those muscles that you never used before. 

Take 10 great shots, don't push to shoot 50 out of the box. You may step into bad habits trying to make it happen 

That's my good deed for the day. lol


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I assume you are talking about a hinge and you simply can't pick one up and expect to be as proficient with it as the one your are used to, it takes a long time to become proficient with one and for it to become your dominant choice. To me setting up the hinge correctly is the first and most important chore and most people have no idea how to set one up and are told to just set it cold and learn, this advice sucks and forces you to suffer for a long time. I am sending you a hinge setup routine for you to do and notice I didn't say hinge tweek your current setting routine. You must follow the hinge setup routine the way it is written to get the full effect and then I put a simple little firing engine at the bottom for you to use, it isn't my favorite but it works just fine and once you get the hinge set up correctly you will be able to use any of the popular firing methods and then choose your favorite.

Beyond hinge setup and firing engine you must get to the point where you aren't command shooting anymore and I bet your are doing this because most people do. It is where you see the pin centered and you feel the bow needs to fire now so you add some back tension to help the hinge or thumb trigger fire right now, you must stop doing this and simply not care when the bow is going to fire. You start aiming and running your engine and your pin simply floats around and you don't put on the brakes when it is on the edge of the spot you simply run the engine and let the release fire regardless of the location of the pin.


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## cabbage2009 (Apr 9, 2009)

Padgett said:


> I assume you are talking about a hinge and you simply can't pick one up and expect to be as proficient with it as the one your are used to, it takes a long time to become proficient with one and for it to become your dominant choice. To me setting up the hinge correctly is the first and most important chore and most people have no idea how to set one up and are told to just set it cold and learn, this advice sucks and forces you to suffer for a long time. I am sending you a hinge setup routine for you to do and notice I didn't say hinge tweek your current setting routine. You must follow the hinge setup routine the way it is written to get the full effect and then I put a simple little firing engine at the bottom for you to use, it isn't my favorite but it works just fine and once you get the hinge set up correctly you will be able to use any of the popular firing methods and then choose your favorite.
> 
> Beyond hinge setup and firing engine you must get to the point where you aren't command shooting anymore and I bet your are doing this because most people do. It is where you see the pin centered and you feel the bow needs to fire now so you add some back tension to help the hinge or thumb trigger fire right now, you must stop doing this and simply not care when the bow is going to fire. You start aiming and running your engine and your pin simply floats around and you don't put on the brakes when it is on the edge of the spot you simply run the engine and let the release fire regardless of the location of the pin.



If you don't mind sharing i would like to know to.

Thanks


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Cabbage, I sent it to you and remember my hinge setup routine is not a tweek your current setting a little. It is a complete hinge setup routine that really will change the way you see your hinge if you do it the way it is written.


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## Mathewshunt1996 (Jul 14, 2012)

Padgett said:


> Cabbage, I sent it to you and remember my hinge setup routine is not a tweek your current setting a little. It is a complete hinge setup routine that really will change the way you see your hinge if you do it the way it is written.


Could you send it to me too please?


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## ILMathewsPro (Dec 29, 2003)

Me too please if you don't mind. Very interested!


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## cabbage2009 (Apr 9, 2009)

Padgett said:


> Cabbage, I sent it to you and remember my hinge setup routine is not a tweek your current setting a little. It is a complete hinge setup routine that really will change the way you see your hinge if you do it the way it is written.


I am missing the important part are is that all of it.
Thanks Again Mark


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Cabbage, I have lots of guys who pm me and I try to lead them in a decent direction to become a hinge shooter and that comment was just for him. I will do the same for you as the months go by just pm me and talk about your good and bad issues and I then try to come up with something to lead you along.


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## unks24 (Jul 6, 2012)

Please send to me also


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## gynx (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm interested as well!!! Thx


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## 737flyer (Dec 8, 2009)

Ah, oh. You went back tension. Big mistake. 

Now, you'll get really good at it (after lots of practice) and never look back :shade:

It's getting so I don't like shooting any of my non-hinge releases. To me, they feel so comfortable and natural now.


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## TightString (Mar 17, 2011)

Still don't see how the shot will go off by itself and somehow be in the middle without commanding it to do so. Almost sounds like instinctive shooting but that takes years to develop. Saw another recent post where the guy's been working on BT since December. Not very encouraging.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

TightString said:


> Still don't see how the shot will go off by itself and somehow be in the middle without commanding it to do so. Almost sounds like instinctive shooting but that takes years to develop. Saw another recent post where the guy's been working on BT since December. Not very encouraging.


The pin doesn't have to be in the middle if you are focused on the middle. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## TightString (Mar 17, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> The pin doesn't have to be in the middle if you are focused on the middle.


Very interesting. How then do you focus on the middle without focusing the pin or aperture on the center and release the shot? 
Thanks


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

TightString said:


> Very interesting. How then do you focus on the middle without focusing the pin or aperture on the center and release the shot?
> Thanks


You focus on the spot, not the pin. Your pin should be floating around the area but you don't chase it. If you command the shot you'll never know what your missing, pun intended.


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## Finq (Jul 12, 2009)

TightString said:


> Very interesting. How then do you focus on the middle without focusing the pin or aperture on the center and release the shot?
> Thanks


That's the hardest part for me. Don't worry about the pin, worry about the spot you are trying to hit. Whenever I think "dang, that pin is floating like crazy right now", the pin WILL continue to float like hell. Whenever I don't think about the pin, but only about the spot, I'll hardly miss the gold on a 80cm FITA target. 
The problem for me right now is consistency. 

I recently adjusted my hinge quite a bit slower to allow for a deeper grip with my middle and ring finger while drawing the bow back. Really seems to have made a difference. It's most likely just a confidence thing, but that's 90% of the game, right?

Whenever I think "Damn, I'm really holding steady right now - or switching my focus from the target to the pin - I start to float a whole lot more.
It's so important to _just focus on the spot_ and don't worry _at all_ about what your pin's doing.

That's also why I'm so much more accurate with a single pin sight. I can just concentrate on the spot and trust the pin, instead of telling myself (third pin, third pin, third pin) all the time while aiming.


> How then do you focus on the middle without focusing the pin or aperture on the center and release the shot?


For me, shooting with both eyes open really helped with focusing on the spot, not he pin.


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## unks24 (Jul 6, 2012)

just a quick thank you to Padgett. thank you for sharing some of your knowledge. i usually shoot 30 to 40 percent x rings on 3d and I believe with what Padgett has taught me I should now be well above that. Thank You Padgett.


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## foland20 (Apr 8, 2012)

Padgett will you please share with me too i just started back tension recently need all the help i can get thx


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

hinges do take a long time to master and do it correctly.buy the book by Larry Wise called Core Archery.another great book is called idiot proof archery by Bernie Pellerite. carter has come out with a great hinge release with a safety called a honey-do.i do have one small comment to make, hinges are better used for targets and practice,but it`s hard to beat a index finger -trigger release for hunting.good luck and be safe


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

My problem with the books is that they ramble on forever and many times they only give one option for firing a hinge, in bernies book idiot proof archery it was a great read for me when I knew nothing but it has some very big holes in it. for example he only offers instruction on one hinge firing method and that is squeezing your rhomboids and on top of that he offers no specific instruction on how to setup a hinge. I have become a real hinge shooter this last season and I have many good firing engines and one of them is squeezing your rhomboids and I can shoot really good with it but it isn't the best one by far and listening to chance and levi to of the best shooters on earth they don't even do it.

I have read bernies chapters on aiming many times and many of his thoughts on having a shot sequence and firing sequence were things that I needed to hear but the most important thing to a beginning hinge shooter is actually making it fire and he fails in that department in many ways.


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## Smith M. (Jul 26, 2012)

Padgett - I am just starting in Hinges please end me the info as well - Thanks


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Padgett said:


> My problem with the books is that they ramble on forever and many times they only give one option for firing a hinge, in bernies book idiot proof archery it was a great read for me when I knew nothing but it has some very big holes in it. for example he only offers instruction on one hinge firing method and that is squeezing your rhomboids and on top of that he offers no specific instruction on how to setup a hinge. I have become a real hinge shooter this last season and I have many good firing engines and one of them is squeezing your rhomboids and I can shoot really good with it but it isn't the best one by far and listening to chance and levi to of the best shooters on earth they don't even do it.
> 
> I have read bernies chapters on aiming many times and many of his thoughts on having a shot sequence and firing sequence were things that I needed to hear but the most important thing to a beginning hinge shooter is actually making it fire and he fails in that department in many ways.


If you haven't read Larry Wise's "Core Archery", you should. Pretty much counter to what Bernie has to say about the issue. Larry focuses on shooting in the present and having correct biomechanical position at full draw, the "full Draw Position" in order to execute THIS shot with proper back tension. Nothing fancy or wordy about "relax this, pull with that", and the word "push" or the phrase "push and pull" isn't part of the vocabulary either. It isn't some fancy series of pages about pinching rhomboids, reaching for a fence post, or any of that either. Proper Biomechanical position, bone on bone, correct alignment of the elbow position with the bowhand and bowstring, and thinking only in the present. It all comes together with Core Archery. None of this SOLID, tight anchor stuff either. The key is repeatable, not SOLID and "unrepeatable" every single time.

Either way, you gotta eventually pick a "method" and stay there and not bounce all over the place, changing settings every five minutes and still expect to get this perfected; won't happen, not even in your wildest dreams.

I know people that haven't adjusted the "speed" or the "travel" on their hinge releases in years. These same people also don't go out and grasp at straws for a 'new method' of doing it either. If yesterday that release was firing just fine and today it isn't, then it certainly isn't the RELEASE AID that is the problem. This fact is what so many shooters refuse to accept and one main reason why you can find hinge releases for sale pretty cheap, ha.

Many people also do not understand what is meant by "relax" either. They misconstrue that "relax" and "letting go" are synonymous and/or interchangeable.
I actually saw a person only a few weeks ago that thought that relaxing the first finger meant to let go with the first finger! He was actually firing his hinge release by pointing his first finger towards the target "on command". He was bragging about how well he was shooting by 'relaxing' his first finger on the release, too. First time I ever saw a "pointer method" of completely letting off the first finger on a hinge and it interpreted as "relaxing" the first finger. OMG....

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Field14, I really liked what you had to say and I can't wait to get to the point where I can be a shooter that has 10 years of hinge shooting to look back on. I am 44 years old and have only been shooting a hinge for 2 years, I simply don't have the years of hinge shooting to reflect on to really nail down perfect end result teachings. What I do have is months of suffering being a guy that is self taught without a coach, I am a teacher and I am really good at looking at a problem and finding a way to present the solution to a group of people in a way that it isn't a problem at all. 

To me your post lary wise is a good reflection of why so many of the beginning hinge shooters suffer here on archery talk, many larry wise coached people talk to me from time to time just like you and some of them even worked with him personally and none of them have ever offered me a explanation of how to set up a hinge that has any merit. bernies book has next to nothing and and grivtech has nothing. I read threads for at least two years before actually buying a hinge for the first time and not one time did I ever read anything that would have lead me to setting a hinge up correctly.

Until somebody shows me I am unaware of anything other than set it slow and blank bale. I am sorry but that simply isn't good enough and is exactly why people end up grasping at straws like you mentioned.

Right now I am at the point where I can shoot any popular method of firing a hinge and shooting at least a 300 58x or higher and I only train with different firing engines or methods because it has lead me to finding two methods that really make me a better shooter all around.

Again I can't wait to get to the next level of being a hinge shooter and It will be awesome when I get there.


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## MattsAlpha (Apr 9, 2012)

Padgett, I a new hinge shooter and would very much appreciate any help you can provide. I also want to add that I am thankful to you and others who are willing to take the time to help beginners like me improve in something they love.


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## Unicron (Nov 26, 2012)

I never really got a hold of the Rhomboid method either.

What I do now:

1. Draw back with my back pulling hardest with my index finger on the hinge.
2. Get to anchor, majority of the force on my forearm and index finger still.
3. Relax my fore arm, graps on with my other fingers.
4. Slowly let up off the index finger and try to keep the fore arm relaxed, take the tension you are dropping on your upper arm. You cannot feel this in your back, you feel it in your elbow / shoulder more than anywhere else.
5. Because of the triangle your hand forms in relation to the release and loop, shifting balance from your index to your other fingers while at the same pressure, you minutely rotate the release and it will fire on its own.

Do this all smoothly and get used to the feel and you'll shoot any handheld release well. Setting it up so it goes off at the right angle for your hand / shooting for is indeed so pivotal, I almost cannot imagine it is not in those books discussed. (Didn't read them) When setting this up, start so cold that you cannot fire it, only when forced. Take it extremely slow when setting it hotter. Set is so you can follow these steps and you can keep your forearm relaxed all the way through the shot. Goes off to soon? Set it a hair colder. Need to pull back on it a bit? Set it hotter. The sweetspot can be extremely small, be patient with it, if you move it too much accidentally, start over at a relatively cold setting. Set it up so that you could still hit your target with your eyes closed.

Dropped the Hinges for now, I can do the same with handheld triggers, but instead of just your elbow, you have your thumb to "feel" how close you are to a shot as well. And you can leave it on your loop when locked down.


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## juststartin08 (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm getting ready to start shooting with a hinge after hunting season. Can you please send it to me also?


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

TightString said:


> Very interesting. How then do you focus on the middle without focusing the pin or aperture on the center and release the shot?
> Thanks


Simple...place pin on spot....stare through the pin as you are glaring your eyesight on the spot you wish to hit. Trust the float while NEVER taking your eye off the spot. As you are executing your shot think of one thing and one thing only...AIM!!! As a example of multi-tasking....say you are driving a car....u are looking straight ahead focusing on the road and what lies ahead...now a BUG hits your windshield directly in front of you and spatters on the windshield!! Now ask yourself......do you now stare at the splattered bug on your windshield or do you look thru or past the bug to continue on your way? I assume you will look thru or past the bug or you may crash! The same can be said about aiming......place pin on the spot...look thru or past the pin , trusting the float while YOU keep your eye on the spot...NOW execute the shot! >>--------->X


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## 1 Turkey Killer (Feb 3, 2012)

I would like to see this also. thank for any help


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Unicron said:


> I never really got a hold of the Rhomboid method either.
> 
> What I do now:
> 
> ...


The key element missing and yet is fully discussed in Core Archery by Larry Wise is the biomechanics of how the shoulder, elbow and engagement of the rhomboids all work; but to get this done, you MUST, I repeat MUST have proper Full Draw Position and alignment of that drawing elbow, forearm unit all in line with the arrow. You are not dealing with a "shooter's triangle" when shooting a hinge or with "back tension" but rather a trapezoid...but that FDP is critical; otherwise you will NEVER "feel it" in the rhomboids.
Yes, there is a "transfer" of the tension from the release hand drawing unit, forearm, and shoulder...and that transfer is done through that relaxation process and allowing that transfer to complete. When you have the alignment correct, it is effortless and pretty much automatic; if you don't have proper FDP, then biomechanically, it is next to impossible to successfully achieve.
There is actually very little "movement" of muscle to achieve the tripping of the release(rotation of the handle on the hinge release), if you are moving muscle then likely it is your release hand and forearm tightening up and THAT is NOT 'executing the shot with PROPER back tension).

Set the speed of the hinge and learn to use it. MOST people set it too hot from the get go and before long learn bad habits and routines to trip the release with as little effort as possible...and that is not proper back tension either. You set the release cold so that you have to work with it and then you get that draw length and Full Draw Position so that the tip of the elbow and forearm are in line with the bowstring and arrow when at FDP - - at that point, if this is set correctly this process is pretty automatic. If you aren't in proper FDP, then the process quickly breaks down, and people give up and speed up the release thinking about the wrong end of the process.
Hitting the X is NOT, a most archers think the primary goal of shooting an arrow. Hitting the X is in the future, while executing the shot with proper back tension is in the present, and that is where you want to be.
Nobody says it is easy to accomplish right at first or even in the first month or three...but once you have reallly executed a shot with proper back tension, you will be wanting to come back for more.
The elements are all outlined in Core Archery, but it cannot be done FOR you, you gotta go out and get it. Starting with stance and ONE step at a time. Bow hand positioning is also robber of you getting to proper full draw position, too. Most all shooters have a bow hand positioning problem and don't even realize it.

Nearly all newbies jump to the release part of a shot sequence and never consider an organized, well orchestrated and proper shot sequence built from the ground up, starting with STANCE. Most skip all that "stuff" and go to setting the speed of the release and shooting for score right out of the box and if their scores drop or don't sky-rocket, then it becomes the release aid's fault and certainly not the shooter's fault. This is a process, not a single step all by itself; all elements have to be worked on separately, one at a time, but of course that takes time; but crap, "there is a league starting or a tournament a week away, I don't have time to do this; need those Xs NOW."


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## Bearlee (Dec 24, 2009)

Padgett, I would be interested in seeing this as well, I have been shooting a hinge now for 1 year and 4 months. I had a bad struggle with it for the first year as I have learned everything on my own with no one to teach me as it was all too hard for them to figure out. Biggest lesson I learned was not to listen to someone that can tell you how to shoot a hinge but does not shoot a hinge. THEY DO NOT KNOW! Now, I have come a long way, but still need to come farther. Draw length is everything, because of this hinge I have shange my DL shorter by 2" now I am group bareshaft and fletched at 40 yards, but still have problems with the float sometimes wanting to force the pin. I need help separating the two. Thanks for your help.


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## Bow_Dude (May 12, 2007)

i am also interested in the information. I started shooting a hinge about 4 months ago and have also struggled with setup and proper technique. You do hear a lot and I have experimented a lot, and have come a long way, but do not know if I am on the right track. The potential is phenomenal. Trying to un-learn a bad habit is difficult. I don't want to become an expert at poor form and setup. Thanks in advance for any help.


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## TightString (Mar 17, 2011)

field14 said:


> ...
> Nearly all newbies jump to the release part of a shot sequence and never consider an organized, well orchestrated and proper shot sequence built from the ground up, starting with STANCE. Most skip all that "stuff" and go to setting the speed of the release and shooting for score right out of the box and if their scores drop or don't sky-rocket, then it becomes the release aid's fault and certainly not the shooter's fault. This is a process, not a single step all by itself; all elements have to be worked on separately, one at a time, but of course that takes time; but crap, "there is a league starting or a tournament a week away, I don't have time to do this; need those Xs NOW."


Sounds like you have little patience for "newbies." I'm new to back tension releases but not to archery. For the practice required reading GRIV or Larry Wise's articles, it can be a real challenge for some thus causing an impatience you seem to despise. For me I have to drive 1.5hrs to get to my outdoor range where I can do blank bale shooting. That's 3hrs of driving and that's not going to happen on week nights. There's no blank bale practice at our nearest indoor range, also a good drive and no option to shoot at targets closer than the backstop. Close your eyes and shoot, you'll probably be asked to leave. The outdoor range pretty much closes in Nov when it freezes the bales and you can't get your arrows out so 3 months of blank bale practice and shooting @ 10-20 yds described by the experts brings us to the end of the season. Being able to shoot 10-15 arrows several times a day is a real luxury only someone with a range in their back yard would have. Don't know if shooting 15 feet in the garage at a target would be beneficial.

So at least for me, I'll do the best I can with what I have access to. If I can't get the hang of the back tension release, I'll go back to my thumb trigger and make do with the skills I have.

Lots of good info but looks like my question turned into a request for Padgett's info instead. Maybe a sticky is in order for it. Those requesting his info may be better served to send him a PM. Unless he looks at this thread and wades through all the requests, you'll get missed.


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## AFC-Hazelwood (Apr 19, 2009)

Hey Padgett I would like the information also if you don't mind.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I just sent the hinge setup routine to a bunch of you who asked for it so check your pm's, don't forget it is not a tweek your current setting routine and you won't benefit from trying that. Totally turn your moon and loose the current setting so that your hinge will not fire and then do the hinge setup routing steps. Drawing with all fingers is something that many of you probably can't even believe is possible and it wasn't for me either and now I do it all the time.

The beauty of the hinge setup routine is that once you have your hinge setup you can use any of the popular firing engines out there from back tension to squeezing fingers etc and they will all work and you can shoot really good with any of them.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

TightString said:


> Sounds like you have little patience for "newbies." I'm new to back tension releases but not to archery. For the practice required reading GRIV or Larry Wise's articles, it can be a real challenge for some thus causing an impatience you seem to despise. For me I have to drive 1.5hrs to get to my outdoor range where I can do blank bale shooting. That's 3hrs of driving and that's not going to happen on week nights. There's no blank bale practice at our nearest indoor range, also a good drive and no option to shoot at targets closer than the backstop. Close your eyes and shoot, you'll probably be asked to leave. The outdoor range pretty much closes in Nov when it freezes the bales and you can't get your arrows out so 3 months of blank bale practice and shooting @ 10-20 yds described by the experts brings us to the end of the season. Being able to shoot 10-15 arrows several times a day is a real luxury only someone with a range in their back yard would have. Don't know if shooting 15 feet in the garage at a target would be beneficial.
> 
> So at least for me, I'll do the best I can with what I have access to. If I can't get the hang of the back tension release, I'll go back to my thumb trigger and make do with the skills I have.
> 
> Lots of good info but looks like my question turned into a request for Padgett's info instead. Maybe a sticky is in order for it. Those requesting his info may be better served to send him a PM. Unless he looks at this thread and wades through all the requests, you'll get missed.


You totally have read me wrong with regard to an impatience on my part for newbies; quite the contrary. However, I do have impatience for shooters that hand a newbie a hinge release that is set for the experienced shooter and expect a newbie to shoot it! That is where my impatience arises.
Most people that start with a hinge already have a fear of it; either from what they've been told by friends' experiences, OR, from already having gotten a knuckle sandwich because somebody handed them a release set way to hot for a newbie.
I also have impatience when an experienced hinge shooter does the above, and the newbie is doing this at 20 yards instead of up close and on a blank bale, too.

I have shot indoors in my house or garage at distances of 6 feet or less, so there is a way, if there is a "will" to shoot blank bale and/or up close. I have had students that shot up close in their bedrooms.

I hear tell of a Vegas Shoot WINNER that for most of the winter shot in his basement or garage at a distance of 30 to 40 feet; and he came on to win Vegas that year. So, you are incorrect if you think shooting up close in your garage or basement won't help you. There pops that question again about being willing or not.
You do NOT have to shoot arrows to practice with a hinge either. You really can learn a ton sitting on the couch, and instead of eating potato chips, make either a "Rope Bow", set it you get your Full draw Positioning (draw length) correct, and "shoot" with your hinge over and over and over again. There is also Saunder's Firing Line simulator, or the Morin Trainer that can/will work wonders for somebody working on a hinge, especially those new to it.
Too many newbies are caught up in thinking they have to shoot arrows and go to the range to do it; not so.

One of the key elements of learning a hinge is indeed patience; and impatience on the part of the shooter makes for a lengthened and sometimes extremely difficult learning curve.
You build this thing one step at a time, from the ground up and cannot skip steps and still expect to 'get there.' Without a practice plan, you will be chasing your tail. Without goals (written ones) and getting data that can be shown numerically, you will get nowhere. Without a journal of what you have done, how you felt, the data, and what your next plan of attack for the next practice session is; you'll struggle to progress and you will only be guessing again at what you are doing and how far you have gotten. Without documentation of any and all changes you make - - again after about the 2nd change, you are lost again and forced to pretty much start over.
If a person isn't willing to build from the ground up, then they aren't going to succeed. Instant gratification is rare, and seldom works for long.

So, as the question posed by Larry Wise goes, "Are you willing to give up what you are now for what you could become?" Up front most people will say "yes"...but when it comes right down to it, if you break the question down into a series of questions:

Are you Willing? Many are skeptical here - red flag
Are you Willing to give up? Oh, oh; how does the student interpret this?
Are you willing to give up what you are now? That means launching yourself into new territory, doesn't it?
Are you willing to give up what you are now for what you can become? Many don't get this far. This means taking the old, tossing it, and sticking with the new through thick and thin, ups and downs; and there WILL be "downs" too.

I remember a top echelon competitor a few years ago telling me that he had such grief with a thumb trigger that he has to do something. I asked him that question above. He said, "I've already figured that one out. I know I will have to give up what I am now, and I will have to work to become what I can be." It took him two years of biting the bullet, but he is now among one of the best hinge shooters on the circuit.

Shooting 150 arrows a day is meaningless if nearly all of them are spent changing this or that from one shot to the next trying to find "it" or done incorrectly. Practicing mistakes get you nowhere.

But people tend to always read an experienced coach or shooter as "impatient" and not understanding how tough it is. How the heck to you think the experienced person got to the level they are? You got it, tripping and stumbling, and finally deciding that "I am willing to give up what I am now for what I could become" and then proceeding to walk the walk and get 'r dun.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

*Tension Release - Practice Routine*



field14 said:


> You totally have read me wrong with regard to an impatience on my part for newbies; quite the contrary. However, I do have impatience for shooters that hand a newbie a hinge release that is set for the experienced shooter and expect a newbie to shoot it! That is where my impatience arises.
> Most people that start with a hinge already have a fear of it; either from what they've been told by friends' experiences, OR, from already having gotten a knuckle sandwich because somebody handed them a release set way to hot for a newbie.
> I also have impatience when an experienced hinge shooter does the above, and the newbie is doing this at 20 yards instead of up close and on a blank bale, too.
> 
> ...


Lots of truth here...... We should feel grateful with the adjustable hinge releases we have today. Yeah, years and years back you adjusted a hinge with a file or grind stone or got use to shooting one the way it was.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Lots of truth here...... We should feel grateful with the adjustable hinge releases we have today. Yeah, years and years back you adjusted a hinge with a file or grind stone or got use to shooting one the way it was.


I still have my two original Stanislawski hinge releases from the mid 1970's. Never had to grind on them or do much with them, but....changing the speed (adjusting the moon) was a royal pain in the butt. Even if you marked the moon, when you tightened up the set screw, the danged thing would move as you tightened the set screw. As you said it was just better to set it and forget it and quit playing around with it
Many shooters had several of those, set them "close" as they could to each other, and just grabbed one to shoot that day. Or others would have 2-3 or more in their pouch, and whichever one they grabbed out of the pouch was the one that they shot that arrow with. 

Grinding on the moon on a hinge release is a huge NO-NO....so I'm thinking you were talking about those "ledge-style releases" that required grinding and filing to try to get them just right, and if you went even one stroke of the fine file too much, you re-cut the groove.

field14(Tom D)


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

field14 said:


> I still have my two original Stanislawski hinge releases from the mid 1970's. Never had to grind on them or do much with them, but....*changing the speed (adjusting the moon) was a royal pain in the butt*. Even if you marked the moon, when you tightened up the set screw, the danged thing would move as you tightened the set screw. As *you said it was just better to set it and forget it *and quit playing around with it
> Many shooters had several of those, set them "close" as they could to each other, and just grabbed one to shoot that day. Or others would have 2-3 or more in their pouch, and whichever one they grabbed out of the pouch was the one that they shot that arrow with.
> 
> I'm thinking you were talking about those "ledge-style releases" that required grinding and filing to try to get them just right, and if you went even one stroke of the fine file too much, you re-cut the groove.
> ...


Yep, Tom, to all.

??? Don't want anyone to take me wrong. I don't use a hinge for events, but practice with one to more keep me honest. And probably due to everything Tom has above.


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## MattsAlpha (Apr 9, 2012)

So, to activate a hinge requires tension at full draw created by the rhomboids, followed by a relaxation of the release forearm muscles? Or a further engagement of the rhomboids by moving the release elbow? Or further engagement of rhomboids and relaxation of release forearm in conjunction? Is there a definitive correct way, or just personal preference?


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

MattsAlpha said:


> So, to activate a hinge requires tension at full draw created by the rhomboids, followed by a relaxation of the release forearm muscles? Or a further engagement of the rhomboids by moving the release elbow? Or further engagement of rhomboids and relaxation of release forearm in conjunction? Is there a definitive correct way, or just personal preference?


With today's higher let off compound bows, this is much more difficult to accomplish and master than it was in the past when holding weights, even for people shooting in the lower 40# peak weights was in the lower to higher 20# range. The lower the let-off, or the higher the holding weight (If this doesn't force your peak weight up beyond your means) makes the 'transfer' from the hand, forearm, upper arm, etc to the rhomboids a lot easier, and you also won't get to take so long to do it.
Most people today, are really pulling the bow with their arm, and not using the proper muscles or proper initial setup to get the use out of the correct muscles. Thus, you see a very high (skying the bow) starting bow arm position, a lowered drawing elbow (sometimes even against the torso), and body twisting, and then foot movement, head movement, bouncing the release hand up and down to "settle" the anchor; and the list goes on. How can anyone ever duplicate all that motion and movement every single time? They can't.
If you follow the basic steps in sequence and get those automated, when you arrive at FDP position, you are already on target, and that transfer of the "tension" from the release hand, forearm, and elbow/shoulder unit is pretty much easy to accomplish. If anything is tightened up or tightened back up as you try to force an issue, then you may as well let down and start over.

So, the setting of the bowhand is done right after release hookup and that bow hand position doesn't move from that point forward. Most shooters do indeed have a bow hand positioning problem, and most aren't even aware of it.
Once you set the release hand, the back of the hand straight, the wrist straight, and the angle set, that, too, doesn't change.
Once you turn your head to the target and level the chin, that head position doesn't change; basically you draw the string/release hand to you, you don't chase your head and move it to the string or hand.
Once you hit full draw position, it is NOT a super tight and solid anchor and you certainly don't search for it by bouncing your release hand back and forth and up and down and angling your pinky up or down and back and forth (very common problem!)
At that point, your drawing forearm and tip of the drawing elbow should be directly in line with the arrow and bowstring. This is the correct full draw position.
Then this "transfer" of tension begins by "relaxing" (and we don't mean relaxing as in letting go) the back of the hand and forearm muslce to allow the transfer of the tension to the muscles that are already set up to take the load. There is, and nobody can teach you this, some transfer of "pressure" to the 3rd and 4th fingers to help equalize a "load" and engage the release body. If the release body doesn't move, the release won't trip.
It doesn't take much rotation of the release body to do the job, and it doesn't take a ton of movement with the elbow or any other such "stuff" to get that rotation going.
The above, of course is based upon sound and proven biomechanics of how these various alignments and relaxations work and how, by doing this, you utilize your skeletal system and the proper and natural mechanics of how the shoulder/scapula/rhomboids, and neck muscles physically work.
Again, nobody can teach you just how much "pressure" you place on the thumb trigger or release handle with the other fingers; that is a technique and learned process based upon the release setting/tension.
Of course, there are many ways of short-circuiting the process, cheating the process, helping it along, etc. There isn't a human on the planet that never misses!
The big difference is that the Pros practice until they rarely get it wrong; the amateurs practice, trying to get it right. ALL of the pros have undergone slumps; all of them have come up the ladder, and obviously all of them gave up what they were to what they could become. In addition, all of them are also a "Work in Progress", too.

Hope this helps, and again, if the emphasis is on the release aid but your bowhand is out of position, or your release hand isn't properly set, or your draw length is wrong - - you have placed the cart before the horse.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Luckyeagle23 (Mar 25, 2009)

I would like to see this as well if it is not too much trouble. I have been shooting a hinge on and off for sometime and have never figured out what is "Good" for me.. Would be interested to read about setting one up... Thanks in advance for your time.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Lucky eagle I just sent the hinge setup routine and remember it isn't a tweek your current setting routine It is a complete reset button to your hinge shooting. Do it and shoot for a week or so and then pm me and I will lead you in the right direction.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Field 14, I really liked reading your last big response and being a hinge shooter I can relate to many of the things that you are saying.


Mattsalpha, Firing a hinge can be done many ways and for most shooters they were told to set their hinge really slow and suffer for a long time and just learn to fire it by blank bailing and squeezing your rhomboids which rotates your elbow backwards or by simply rotating your hinge smoothly. Most pure hinge shooters refuse to rotate the hinge by squeezing your fingers and don't consider that a good choice.

I personally can shoot at a very high level using any and all of the current firing methods, the reason I can do this is because I have learned how to set up a hinge correctly so that I have no bad habits ingrained into drawing my bow or picking one firing method and setting my hinge up so that it will fire using my one firing method and then not being able to fire using other methods.

I have a hinge setup routine that I will pm you so just pm me and ask, don't ask here because I am sending it out to so many people I can't remember who I have sent it to. Once you get your hinge setup correctly then your journey will begin and with some work you can become a real hinge shooter.


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## MattsAlpha (Apr 9, 2012)

Thank you Padgett, and Tom (field 14) for being great resources on my journey to become a competent back tension shooter using a hinge.


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## ricardo-sf (Aug 8, 2013)

Padgett .. 

Could you also sent the setup routine and firing engine info to me -- I'm about to receive my first hinge release and the more into the better (new shooter, and first time hinge shooter).


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Ricardo, did I send it to you? I think I did but can't remember so if you didn't get it pm me.


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## ricardo-sf (Aug 8, 2013)

I got it.. I'll get back to you once I try to put it to use next week

Thanks


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## csowens_ashley (Jan 23, 2009)

Padgett could you send me info,thank you


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## ilkilmore (Apr 23, 2012)

Padgett, I have really been struggling with back tension releases. Sold 2 and bought 2 more trying to find the "perfect" one. Maybe it is not the release but me! Please send me info on how to set up my new release and I will start from scratch. Thanks so much


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I had the same problem when I started, I got two hinges and suffered so much that I got a third one and gave the other two away to my best friend and I suffered some more. Finally I started to catch on and then I invented the hinge setup routine and actually became a hinge shooter, I actually got one of the hinges back from my best friend and I found that it was actually a really good one and I shot it at the iowa pro am and at some of the asa shoots this summer. Once you become a hinge shooter you will be able to shoot any hinge really freaking good.

The hinge setup routine will allow you to draw your bow with all fingers and it will allow you to shoot any of the popular back tension methods for hinges out there.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

there are definitely 2 schools of back tension...the larry wise, so called trapazoidial method, and the griv triangle hand method. I tried the larry wise method for 20 years..i guess, I should have gotten a coach, but couldn't afford one. I got pretty good, but it just seemed like there was too much work involved. the last 2 years, I've been on the triangle hand relaxation griv method. there is far less work involved here...at least that's my opinion. I really combine both methods..relax to the click, and then pinch rhomboids slightly to release. it's all in the timing, and it doesn't happen overnight. i'm obviously doing something wrong, because I've never shot a 300 vegas. the griv has his kids shooting them pretty routinely....so the proof is in the pudding.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

oldgeez said:


> there are definitely 2 schools of back tension...the larry wise, so called trapazoidial method, and the griv triangle hand method. I tried the larry wise method for 20 years..i guess, I should have gotten a coach, but couldn't afford one. I got pretty good, but it just seemed like there was too much work involved. the last 2 years, I've been on the triangle hand relaxation griv method. there is far less work involved here...at least that's my opinion. I really combine both methods..relax to the click, and then pinch rhomboids slightly to release. it's all in the timing, and it doesn't happen overnight. i'm obviously doing something wrong, because I've never shot a 300 vegas. the griv has his kids shooting them pretty routinely....so the proof is in the pudding.


I disagree that there are two "schools" with regard to the back tension. The two methods basically differ in the verbage used, but both come down to the RELAXATION part that most students completely misunderstand what is meant by "relaxation" and letting the RHOMBOIDS do the work and not the mucsles in the fingers or release hand. Many people misinterpret the relax of the hand to mean "let go with the fingers", but what is meant is to allow those muscles in the release hand to RELAX and stretch out so that the muscles involved with PROPER "back tension" can do their jobs. 
Larry's principle is to shoot in the PRESENT...and if you are thinking "I want to hit the X", then you are in the future and cannot possibly focus on "I'm going to execute THIS shot with proper back tension."

Larry Wise definitely teaches HAND RELAXATION...but with different terminology...and also stressing that to do this properly, you have to be in the correct anatomical position; especially with the alignment of the string, hand, and tip of the elbow, with the bow shoulder down and relaxed. The release hand and bow hand must also be RELAXED...but that doesn't mean "let go with the first finger" or start to squeezing on the release with the third and 4th fingers...since to do that, you cannot RELAX the release hand.

Simple semantics, and some understand GRIVS "words" and mechanics better than they do Larry's. BOTH work. 

It still comes down to "Let it float and shoot the shot" and do NOT try to force it.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

I don't know??? I've watched griv's video a hundred times, and there is no mention of pinching back muscles or rhomboids?? he simply says to relax your hand and the laws of physics and anatomy do the rest. larry's book makes a major point about the back muscles. griv makes no reference to aiming..i wish he did, lol!! aiming is a huge part of shot execution. he does mention, very briefly, about alignment...aligning your elbow with the arrow. of course, he's trying to sell those trainers, lol!! he is in business, after all. he keeps hinting about something on shot execution or something, but he has yet to be forthcoming. he is very vague, when one asks him specific questions. I try continuously to get info out of his students, but they too are pretty hush, hush. there is a ton of info here about "aiming." all are good, but the ones I adhere to....just look at the x hard, and let the subconscious do the rest. again, I am kinda of hybrid here, too. the sight picture is so very important and centering. I find that my mind likes things centered and concentric...circles in circles, but I still find myself checking this on and off a I aim. i'm working on it. archery seems to be a continuous, never ending, process.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

oldgeez said:


> I don't know??? I've watched griv's video a hundred times, and there is no mention of pinching back muscles or rhomboids?? he simply says to relax your hand and the laws of physics and anatomy do the rest. larry's book makes a major point about the back muscles. griv makes no reference to aiming..i wish he did, lol!! aiming is a huge part of shot execution. he does mention, very briefly, about alignment...aligning your elbow with the arrow. of course, he's trying to sell those trainers, lol!! he is in business, after all. he keeps hinting about something on shot execution or something, but he has yet to be forthcoming. he is very vague, when one asks him specific questions. I try continuously to get info out of his students, but they too are pretty hush, hush. there is a ton of info here about "aiming." all are good, but the ones I adhere to....just look at the x hard, and let the subconscious do the rest. again, I am kinda of hybrid here, too. the sight picture is so very important and centering. I find that my mind likes things centered and concentric...circles in circles, but I still find myself checking this on and off a I aim. i'm working on it. archery seems to be a continuous, never ending, process.


Larry's emphasis is on CORRECT alignment (meaning that the draw length must be set properly), proper placement of the bowhand on the bow at the START of the sequence and never moving it after that, proper positioning of the release hand at the start of the drawing sequence and NEVER moving it after that, proper shoulder placement when you start the drawing sequence and never moving it after that, anchoring (and NOT a "tight and solid anchor"), proper alignment of the elbow with the bowstring and arrow (if the DL is correct, this is pretty much done with when you hit Full Draw Position (FDP). Then it is NOT about aiming, since if you have the PROPER FDP, things are already solid...you just let it float, and execute the shot with PROPER BACK TENSION.
That is why you don't see much of either of them talk about aiming...because "aiming", just like "relaxing the release hand" are so easily misinterpreted by MOST shooters/students. They think relaxing means letting go of the release with the first finger - - instead of just letting the hand flatten out, which allows the forearm, upper arm, and drawing shoulder to basically turn to mush and allows the "back muscles" to function as they are designed to do.
There are certain "angles" that the scapula and the neck muscles can work within, and if this "angle" is off, then they aren't going to be allowed to work...and you "tighten up."

If you are thinking, "I gotta get that dot on the X", or "I gotta get that circle centered up", then you are NOT thinking about executing THIS shot with proper back tension...you are thinking about something else entirely, and are doomed to fail...or chase the dot or circle around because you've lost the "proper back tension execution" and are tightening right back up again by trying to force the dot on the x or the circles to center up.
There is no "seeming" that your eyes like things lined up; it is fact we are "concentric" and if you ALLOW things to center up, the eyes do the work for you...it is when you force it that you "lose sight of your objective" which should be, "I will execute THIS shot with proper back tension."

Larry doesn't "hint" about shot execution...he gets his students to think on it.

However, both methods, Larry's and GRIVS have the same "real" objective....PROPER execution of THIS shot with proper back tension. Just semantically different, and that is all.

So many mis-interpretations of what "relaxing" means, and what "proper Back Tension" means, along with one stressing PROPER full draw position as the foundation.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

oldgeez said:


> I don't know??? I've watched griv's video a hundred times, and there is no mention of pinching back muscles or rhomboids?? he simply says to relax your hand and the laws of physics and anatomy do the rest.


Not to disclaim all that has been noted so far, but missing is something Padgett either has in his procedure or has said to me and it makes sense, real sense. What it is most people are already pulling with their back or have tension there...So you relax the hand, wait and the release will fire...sooner or later depending on how the hinge is set and this is a point I took in Padgett's procedure. Just aim and let the shot happen, so to speak.

I did this my first time ever shooting a hinge in competition, just aimed and let the shot go off by it's self. I used then a Stanislawski Deuce, a 2 finger hinge, which was said gave a quicker shot, not release, but shot. First time and 299 with the most Xs I ever shot. 

Perhaps Tom or Padgett will give more depth here.


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

Guess maybe I'm in total agreement with Sonny when it comes to just aim and let it fire, at least that's the way I understand it. Padgett's having me to set up my release properly was when I really understood how simple it is to just let the back tension, which is already there and ready to fire do it's thing. My problem was listening to so many telling me to set my release cold, that fatigue always came before the shot. Can't believe after those few words about properly setting up my hinge, how much it all seems to really make sense. Now I'm at a loss to understand why it seems to take all sorts of videos, books and dissertations to explain what Padgett said with a simple hinge setup procedure. Maybe there's a lot more that I should know and understand, but like Sonny says, it works for me. Padgett's advice has me very satisfied and like the saying goes, if it's not broke don't fix it.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Dr.Dorite said:


> Guess maybe I'm in total agreement with Sonny when it comes to just aim and let it fire, at least that's the way I understand it. Padgett's having me to set up my release properly was when I really understood how simple it is to just let the back tension, which is already there and ready to fire do it's thing. My problem was listening to so many telling me to set my release cold, that fatigue always came before the shot. Can't believe after those few words about properly setting up my hinge, how much it all seems to really make sense. Now I'm at a loss to understand why it seems to take all sorts of videos, books and dissertations to explain what Padgett said with a simple hinge setup procedure. Maybe there's a lot more that I should know and understand, but like Sonny says, it works for me. Padgett's advice has me very satisfied and like the saying goes, if it's not broke don't fix it.


i guess i've always got that wrong...i thought it was if it ain't broke break it...


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## shotime (Jan 6, 2012)

could I also have the information thanks


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Dr.Dorite said:


> Guess maybe I'm in total agreement with Sonny when it comes to just aim and let it fire, at least that's the way I understand it. Padgett's having me to set up my release properly was when I really understood how simple it is to just let the back tension, which is already there and ready to fire do it's thing. My problem was listening to so many telling me to set my release cold, *that fatigue always came before the shot*. Can't believe after those few words about properly setting up my hinge, how much it all seems to really make sense. Now I'm at a loss to understand why it seems to take all sorts of videos, books and dissertations to explain what Padgett said with a simple hinge setup procedure. Maybe there's a lot more that I should know and understand, but like Sonny says, it works for me. Padgett's advice has me very satisfied and like the saying goes, if it's not broke don't fix it.


Yes, fatigue comes first and really this ruins the thoughts of the one trying. Wore out, shot falling apart and the arrow going somewhere is not conductive of wanting to keep trying.

But then not said is what the good shooters do when shooting. Let the body recover before the next shot. In the case of the hinge, recover before giving the next try.
Time again is said to wait 15 to 17 seconds to let the bow arm recover full strength. Why would it be any different for each hinge shot? If anything, more time to recover and you're practicing, not competing while learning the hinge.

Padgett's procedure lets it become easy (less fatiguing) and then has you adjusting the release to you as you gain confidence and proficiency.

One thing missing. Put away all your other releases and go only with the hinge until you et it done. This is a Catch 22. Practice imperative, time consumed, aggravation due to improvement coming slow and then you have a “have to shoot” to attend. What to do? If by some, you stay with the hinge. This weighs heavy upon the learnee, but consider it another part of learning....

If by many, there is no time frame in becoming proficient. Some become overnight successes (take that a grain of…block of salt in most cases). Some master it in a handful of weeks or couple of months, months or even a year or more. Those going beyond months have issues that need addressed through one on one with some one who is good with a hinge or a coach. Both the good hinge shooter and coach, should if they are any good, will say "do it" or give it up. "Do it" being the correct way. If you're bullheaded, give it up now and save yourself some grief.....

Tom, field14, said it somewhere; Commitment.


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## Dr.Dorite (Oct 27, 2008)

carlosii said:


> i guess i've always got that wrong...i thought it was if it ain't broke break it...


Carlosii, Think you are referring to the thoughts of our political leaders, and their running our government.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

field14 said:


> Larry's emphasis is on CORRECT alignment (meaning that the draw length must be set properly), proper placement of the bowhand on the bow at the START of the sequence and never moving it after that, proper positioning of the release hand at the start of the drawing sequence and NEVER moving it after that, proper shoulder placement when you start the drawing sequence and never moving it after that, anchoring (and NOT a "tight and solid anchor"), proper alignment of the elbow with the bowstring and arrow (if the DL is correct, this is pretty much done with when you hit Full Draw Position (FDP). Then it is NOT about aiming, since if you have the PROPER FDP, things are already solid...you just let it float, and execute the shot with PROPER BACK TENSION.
> That is why you don't see much of either of them talk about aiming...because "aiming", just like "relaxing the release hand" are so easily misinterpreted by MOST shooters/students. They think relaxing means letting go of the release with the first finger - - instead of just letting the hand flatten out, which allows the forearm, upper arm, and drawing shoulder to basically turn to mush and allows the "back muscles" to function as they are designed to do.
> There are certain "angles" that the scapula and the neck muscles can work within, and if this "angle" is off, then they aren't going to be allowed to work...and you "tighten up."
> 
> ...


I must have read that little paragraph 10 times. it just didn't make any sense. I've always heard and READ that aiming is the job for the conscious mind, and the back tension part was done rote until it's automatic, performed by the subconscious mind???? well, according to field14, one is doomed, if you try to aim hard. I stopped aiming hard about 3 years ago, now I just concentrate on the x, while I pull slightly. well, I started thinking about the "back tension execution" part of the post. I really didn't get that out of larry's book, but it seemed to make a little sense...so i'm always up for something new. well, today at practice, I tried it. I remember the feeling when I stopped aiming hard; and today I had a similar experience. I drew back, totally relaxed EVERYTHING, hand, forearm..just let the energy drain out. went into my little zone-out with the x stare down, and just thought about putting my concentration into the actual back tension and getting the release to break. well, after about 20 shots, I actually started to see slight improvement. the arrows were hitting the little x more, not a lot, but a definite improvement. doing something that radically different usually things get worse, before they get better. we'll see tomorrow


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

oldgeez said:


> I must have read that little paragraph 10 times. it just didn't make any sense. I've always heard and READ that aiming is the job for the conscious mind, and the back tension part was done rote until it's automatic, performed by the subconscious mind???? well, according to field14, one is doomed, if you try to aim *hard*. I stopped aiming hard about 3 years ago, now I just concentrate on the x, while I pull slightly. well, I started thinking about the "back tension execution" part of the post. I really didn't get that out of larry's book, but it seemed to make a little sense...so i'm always up for something new. well, today at practice, I tried it. I remember the feeling when I stopped aiming hard; and today I had a similar experience. I drew back, totally relaxed EVERYTHING, hand, forearm..just let the energy drain out. went into my little zone-out with the x stare down, and just thought about putting my concentration into the actual back tension and getting the release to break. well, after about 20 shots, I actually started to see slight improvement. the arrows were hitting the little x more, not a lot, but a definite improvement. doing something that radically different usually things get worse, before they get better. we'll see tomorrow


The key is NOT aiming HARD...because when you do, you are forcing things and you tighten everything you just got done relaxing right back up again, and as I said, you are doomed to fail on THAT shot or execution. If you don't let down, then you might get lucky and hit something, but more often than not, you are going to miss.
So you are right that you practice the FDP and shot sequence until that is "automatic" and in the subconscious...however....on the other hand...if you are focusing and concentrating on hitting the X...that is in the future...and you are likely not going to execute THIS shot/sequence with proper back tension...because you changed your focal point to the FUTURE and not the present.
The other thing to remember is that there is lag time between what you register in your brain as "seeing" and what you SAW just a moment before...that hasn't registered into your brain (been processed yet). Oh, oh...cornfused you again, didn't I?

Ever had shots that broke by total surprise and went smack dead center in the X...and you would have sworn that the site wasn't "centered?" Sure you have, we all have. On the other hand, we've had many that we would have sworn were dead on when the shot broke and had a missed X or worse -- yes you have, we all have.

Four things can happen on any given shot:
1. Good Shot = Good result. Obviously, the higher echelon shooters and Pros have this situation most all the time. They've practice; not until they get it right, but rather until they cannot hardly ever get it wrong.
2. Good Shot = Bad result = get over it, you missed.
3. Bad shot = good result = you dun got lucky dude. Continue that poor execution and you'll end up with big problems
4. Bad shot = bad result. Well, what else can you expect? You did NOT execute this shot with proper back tension; maybe you aimed HARD and focused on the future instead of the present.

hope this helps, but aiming HARD, IMHO, leads to forcing the shot and making the muscles HARD...and defeats the purpose of relaxed musculature and execution of the shot with proper back tension.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

somewhere along the line..in the present, in the past, whatever..there has to be some kind of "aiming" process. you can't hit, what you can't see. you didn't really address the aiming process, just the execution of the shot with good back tension. somewhere aiming has to enter the equation????


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

oldgeez said:


> somewhere along the line..in the present, in the past, whatever..there has to be some kind of "aiming" process. you can't hit, what you can't see. you didn't really address the aiming process, just the execution of the shot with good back tension. somewhere aiming has to enter the equation????


Yep you are absolutely correct..but aiming HARD isn't part of the matrix; Letting it float and executing the shot; keeping your eye focused on what you want to hit and not chasing a dot or ring around and shifting focus from the dot/circle to the target and back again - - which is a common ailment of aiming HARD...you will simply tighten up the muscles as you try to stop the pin/dot from moving, contrary to "letting it float and executing (shooting) the shot." You are going to get caught in between - - out in la-la land - - and not really focused on anything - - and that is bad news.
So, yes, you do "aim" but it is an "allowing it to float", allowing "it" to self center, and NOT forcing by aiming 'HARD." Tough to explain, and even tougher to perform; but when you do, that will feel soooooo GOOOOODDDD, it will have you salivating for more...as you watch that arrow dive right into where you are looking - because you let it float and shot the shot.

YES...the FDP and the other parts of that shot sequence have to be practiced until automated and that you can't hardly do it wrong...THEN, the "aiming" becomes easy because things become less "wavy" and more static. NOBODY can hold dead on that X for very long...there is some float, but the harder you TRY to aim HARD...the more movement you see, and the harder you try to settle it down and the end result is tightness and more movement.
So, this is a learned thing...and you are right, you cannot hit what you cannot see...but if you aren't seeing what you want to hit, then your execution and positioning needs work....and you aren't yet ready to "aim." Are you starting to see why blank baling and what I call "BLIND BALING" are so important in this learning curve? YES! you can shoot a "25" for score with your eyes closed; if you execute the shot correctly! As shaky as I am, I can do this; not every time, but I can do it. "ProActive Archery" Chapter 18 outlines the "BLIND BALE" process.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I may have missed it, but starting with a lower draw weight is pretty much important. I mean, if you're struggling with other issues the primary goal of use of the hinge is much hindered. This I got long ago from Doug Springer of Stanislawski. 

Begin on a lower, easier to handle draw weight and add weight as you gain confidence and proficiency. Be it of note, your best draw weight with hinge might be less than with other index or thumb releases. Okay, you can't use tension when it's all used up holding the bow at full draw....


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> I may have missed it, but starting with a lower draw weight is pretty much important. I mean, if you're struggling with other issues the primary goal of use of the hinge is much hindered. This I got long ago from Doug Springer of Stanislawski.
> 
> Begin on a lower, easier to handle draw weight and add weight as you gain confidence and proficiency. Be it of note, your best draw weight with hinge might be less than with other index or thumb releases. Okay, you can't use tension when it's all used up holding the bow at full draw....


I'm thinking you really meant PEAK weight, and not the holding weight? 

Having shot RECURVED bows with ledge style releases (the first ones to come into common use in the early 1970's), and then rope spikes and then the original stanislawski hinge releases ( I still own the first two 3-finger original stans that I shot with), the HOLDING weight was whatever the bow peaked at at our given draw length. For me, I was HOLDING 34# at full draw...with a ledge, or a rope spike, or a hinge, and we dealt with it, because we couldn't "adjust" the BOW...only the ledge, the bend of the spike (or length of the rope), or move the "moon" on the hinge. We also, at that kind of HOLDING weight, couldn't dilly-dally and aim forever either; let it float and shoot the shot...but that actually made it easier, since you cannot hold a RECURVE bow at full draw without using the back muscles; your arms won't do the job - - unless you like shooting arrows off the bale, hahaha. Shot many 300's on NFAA blue face, and many 560's (old type scoring/old NFAA face) with that kind of holding weight and a ledge, or a rope spike, or a hinge...with Recurved bows.

Sonny, with today's high letoff bows...you are not going to be worried about holding the bow at full draw when many people are only holding between 10 and 15 pounds at FULL DRAW - - unless they are shooting 65# or more PEAK weight on a compound bow!!!
Yes, getting the draw over the peak weight can be problematical, but most of that is due to being overbowed in the first place and coupled with having the hinge set way too hot.
People today are pulling/drawing their bows with their ARMS..and not with their backs. Why? Because they can...and then once over the "hump" of full peak weight, the sudden drop off doesn't allow for easily transferring this to the back muscles because suddenly there is nothing there.
Now...if a person is holding 20-25# peak weight (and if you are shooting 50# peak or less, that is tough to get the holding weight up that high with today's bows!!), then learning PROPER back tension is easier.

I agree with what you say in principle...but it isn't the HOLDING WEIGHT that is the problem...it is the PEAK WEIGHT, and that is what is the first bridge to cross with regard to hinge releases. Too light of a holding weight can create a ton of problems with "real" back tension...BUT...too high of PEAK weight really causes problems with the drawing elbow being too low to start with, poor body and shoulder positioning, skying the bow (not good for hinge shooting!), and a host of other things that too high of PEAK weight causes, and are obstacles to losing the "fear" of shooting a hinge release.

So the lowering of the PEAK weight is indeed a good idea...but one must also realize that this lowers the holding weight as well, and on some bows, depending upon style of cam - - this INCREASED the Draw length of the bow by about 1/4" per full turn of the limb bolts! So, if you lower your PEAK weight by 2 full turns, on some cam systems, your drawlength just INCREASED by as much as 1/2"! So, here comes an overdrawing situation all over again and some adjusting needs to be done to get the drawlength set properly again. It isn't just crank on the limb bolts and all is well.


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## oldgeez (Sep 29, 2002)

yes, my bow has been turned down to indoor weight for about a month now..it's all retimed and the draw length adjusted accordingly. I turn down 8 full turns for indoor, so the effect on draw length is pretty radical. we, here in the Atlanta area, won't be doing any 3d shooting 'til February. so I've got the whole fall and winter to work on indoor shooting.

now, to get down to the exciting news. today's practice session was indeed eye opening. worked on execution, of course..what else is there, lol?? overhauling my shot sequence to the "trust in the float" and "total transfer of holding weight!!" it's really not that radical as I've been using the float method, since my last big go-around here with aread. the biggest change is in the conscious thought on the transfer of weight FULLY to the back. believe me, this takes a real conscious effort to actually FEEL the back take over, and then concentrate on making the back execute the shot...I really expected, with the lack of constant centering, that the results wouldn't be this good. the vegas 10's are happening on just about every shot, and many super x's. i'm going to shoot a practice vegas tomorrow with a new target..more craziness, shots I thought were going to miss slightly went dead in, just like you said..but much more consistently...fun, fun


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes, Tom. I think Doug was saying; "Hey, don't work yourself to death to get to the "meat" of learning. And yes, I've tried hinge releases with recurves and you don't mess around. Mercy...


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

"Don't over-think it. You just might outsmart yourself."

GRIV


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Last fall I peaked in September and had a strong month of shooting, I shot all of my 60x rounds that month about 10 of them and countless 59x rounds. I totally commanded every shot and forced the arrow to hit the x and I thought at the time that I had became a real hinge shooter, since then I have had about three WOW MOMENTS. Most of them happened in the spring and one of them happened this early summer and right now I actually think I am becoming that real hinge shooter I thought I was.

To me the hinge setup routine was the first big step that I took and it lead me into a few months of good shooting with productive shooting sessions that lead me to those wow moments. Then in as the summer went by I think the final step that I have taken happened and it took a while for me to get there but after watching the videos of levi and chance from the ata show a few times and then thinking about them for a few months I finally had this one thought that made a huge impact on me. Here it is.

I WONDER IF REO WILDE HOPES AND PRAYS THAT HE HITS THE X WHEN SHOOTING 5-SPOT? My simple answer to that simple question was HELL NO, he is the freaking best in the world and at 20 yards he isn't hoping and praying because he already knows that he is going to hit the x. He doesn't force the pin to stay still because he has more talent that anyone else and his float is tiny and he simply draws back and floats and runs his firing engine and gets the x that he already knows that he is going to get.

That night laying in bed I decided that even though I don't have reo wilde talent it doesn't mean that I can't use the same mental approach that he is using because I am also good enough to hit a x at 20 yds there fore I don't have to hope and pray or force it to happen because it is going to happen. My shooting instantly improved and I began beating the best 3d shooter in Missouri soon after. I also heard myself saying something that I had never said before when I did miss the x, darn my hinge fired when I floated over there darn the luck. The only time I ever miss anymore is when my float pattern is slightly bigger than normal because of poor footing on a 3d course and it causes my normal float pattern to be slightly bigger than a bulleseye and I run my engine and the hinge by random chance fires when I am on the edge. It took me a while to embrace this new issue but I soon decided that it was better than commanding every shot like I had done for years and failed.

To me all of this leads from the shooter becoming a spectator of his shot instead of a drill sergeant, I let my brain aim because it does a good job and I can trust it to do the aiming every shot without stepping in and I have a nice smooth firing engine that I can run and it fires my hinge in about 3 or so seconds after starting it. there fore I am just watching through my peep as these two things happen.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Those of you who have just begun shooting a hinge or a thumb trigger you need to read that last post every day and really ponder the things I said and ask yourself some serious questions and don't lie to yourself. Are you doing any of these things or are you still forcing the aiming and forcing the shot to happen.

If you are forcing the aiming and engine these are some issues you will have:

1. Freezing up and can't fire the hinge no matter how hard you try.

2. huge amounts of effort and back tension that lead to frustration and getting tired after a shooting session.

3. Only being able to fire your hinge using one specific firing method with any accuracy.

4. Pin floats over to the edge and as you try to force it back it seems like the hinge fires every time and you miss.

5. Shooting on poor footing shots or extreme up or down hill shots.


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## Ky*Bowhunter (Aug 18, 2013)

Seems to me like when you get into a slump the harder you try to aim your bow. This causes me to try to actually use my arm and concious mind to hold it still. The harder you try the worse it gets. If you can control your mind in this process then you have for the most part won the battle. When i draw the bow i load all the tension in my back and my arms for the most part just feel numb and theyre not even really in use. This for me is most consistant because whats more repeatable than fully relaxed? After that the pin just does its thing and floats and i dont try to control it at all. I can tighten it up by tinkerin with weight. Some days id be very hard to beat and others i wouldnt. Ive shot back tension for years but just recently turned on to padgetts setup method. Its worked very well for me. I relax my forearms and hand and just take the slack up with my back. Feels like ur just pullin through the shot with your back. Feels great!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

You know, a game of checkers sounds pretty good


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## DssBB (Feb 21, 2010)

Padgett's method for shooting a hinge works exceptionally well. I made the commitment this year to put away the thumb release and focus my efforts on the hinge only and throughout the entire 3D, only for one extremely steep angle shot did I resort to a thumb release. I am sure I would have been quite fine with the hinge, but chickened out non the less. The sensation of known and being able to execute a successful shot correctly from a hinge release is amazing. With a solid year of shooting a hinge under my belt, I do not think I would ever go back to another style of release. I have 100% (99.99%) confidence in my hinge and my ability to shoot one quite successfully.
One aspect I feel which has made the transition to a hinge release and contributed immensely to being able to relax and execute the shot cleaning and consistently with my sole mental focus on the spot I wish to hit while allowing the sight to subtly float is from shooting a traditional bow instinctively. Being able to draw, anchor and execute a shot while solely focused on a spot on the target instead of your bow and sight strengthens ones ability to trust the shot. As long as I know in my mind, my bow and sight are setup correctly and the only real variable I may have some doubt in my mind about is the yardage, then focusing on a spot on the target and allowing the rest to happen automatically is much simpler and easier.
One method which I used when I began learning to shoot a traditional bow instinctively was blind bailing from about 5 yards. I took a sharpie and drew a small 1/4" dia dot on the bag and learned to focus on the spot only till I was able to consistently hit it or be very close. Although I subconsciously was aware of my bow, anchor and execution of the shot, I remained focused on the dot. When i began learning to shoot a hinge, I applied the same technique to keep my mind on the target spot instead of the pin thus allowing myself to relax and execute the shot cleanly. Over thinking the shot, seems to introduce all kinds of mental and mechanical complications. As Padgett has previously mentioned, focus on the spot, relax your forearm and hand and pull through the shot.

With that being said, shooting a hinge should be a breeze, except when shooting in a strong breeze. This I have yet to master and could certainly use some pointers or help in the area. Being able to trust the float does work exceptionally well except in windy conditions when you can't seem to keep the pin(dot) even close to being on the target insert let alone the target. I know a lot of great hinge shooters would just reach into their pouch and pull out a thumb release for that occasional target where you are blowing around and need to command the shot. I've tried adjusting my stance to add extra balance, but trying to hold somewhat on target while your being blown around makes shooting a hinge even more challenging. Does anyone have any pointers or methods they have had success with in shooting a hinge in windy conditions?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

DssBB said:


> Padgett's method for shooting a hinge works exceptionally well. I made the commitment this year to put away the thumb release and focus my efforts on the hinge only and throughout the entire 3D, only for one extremely steep angle shot did I resort to a thumb release. I am sure I would have been quite fine with the hinge, but chickened out non the less. The sensation of known and being able to execute a successful shot correctly from a hinge release is amazing. With a solid year of shooting a hinge under my belt, I do not think I would ever go back to another style of release. I have 100% (99.99%) confidence in my hinge and my ability to shoot one quite successfully.
> One aspect I feel which has made the transition to a hinge release and contributed immensely to being able to relax and execute the shot cleaning and consistently with my sole mental focus on the spot I wish to hit while allowing the sight to subtly float is from shooting a traditional bow instinctively. Being able to draw, anchor and execute a shot while solely focused on a spot on the target instead of your bow and sight strengthens ones ability to trust the shot. As long as I know in my mind, my bow and sight are setup correctly and the only real variable I may have some doubt in my mind about is the yardage, then focusing on a spot on the target and allowing the rest to happen automatically is much simpler and easier.
> One method which I used when I began learning to shoot a traditional bow instinctively was blind bailing from about 5 yards. I took a sharpie and drew a small 1/4" dia dot on the bag and learned to focus on the spot only till I was able to consistently hit it or be very close. Although I subconsciously was aware of my bow, anchor and execution of the shot, I remained focused on the dot. When i began learning to shoot a hinge, I applied the same technique to keep my mind on the target spot instead of the pin thus allowing myself to relax and execute the shot cleanly. Over thinking the shot, seems to introduce all kinds of mental and mechanical complications. As Padgett has previously mentioned, focus on the spot, relax your forearm and hand and pull through the shot.
> 
> With that being said, shooting a hinge should be a breeze, except when shooting in a strong breeze. This I have yet to master and could certainly use some pointers or help in the area. Being able to trust the float does work exceptionally well except in windy conditions when you can't seem to keep the pin(dot) even close to being on the target insert let alone the target.* I know a lot of great hinge shooters would just reach into their pouch and pull out a thumb release for that occasional target where you are blowing around and need to command the shot.* I've tried adjusting my stance to add extra balance, but trying to hold somewhat on target while your being blown around makes shooting a hinge even more challenging. Does anyone have any pointers or methods they have had success with in shooting a hinge in windy conditions?


If forget the article, but, yes, the Pro was relating of this one certain wind blown State and pulling out a thumb release. And it could have been two wind blown States, Okie and Texas.


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## DssBB (Feb 21, 2010)

Sonny,

I came across a thread from back in February where several AT members discussed shooting in the wind. I would like to stick with a hinge and I know it's an impossible task when your blowing around and trying to minimize the float. Padgett had commented in that thread on opting for another release and punch the crap out of it which would overcome the problem but force me away from the hinge. I do carry an umbrella with me in my 3D stool and have used it for blocking the glare on the lens from the sun but never thought about using it as a means to block the wind. I will give that a try and see how effective it is. I can also judge the amount to hold off the target to compensate for the wind by the movement of the long grass and trees in the area. There was mention of canting the bow, which I am not sure how effective it would be as the wind is still going to be blowing you off target and magnifying the float. I do tend to try and time the gusts of wind but on some days, with a strong wind, it doesn't always work out best unless you force the shot which I would rather not get in the habit of doing.
Thanks again and if anyone else has any suggestions, I'd be more then happy to try them out.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

DssBB said:


> Sonny,
> 
> I came across a thread from back in February where several AT members discussed shooting in the wind. I would like to stick with a hinge and I know it's an impossible task when your blowing around and trying to minimize the float. Padgett had commented in that thread on opting for another release and punch the crap out of it which would overcome the problem but force me away from the hinge. I do carry an umbrella with me in my 3D stool and have used it for blocking the glare on the lens from the sun but never thought about using it as a means to block the wind. I will give that a try and see how effective it is. I can also judge the amount to hold off the target to compensate for the wind by the movement of the long grass and trees in the area. There was mention of canting the bow, which I am not sure how effective it would be as the wind is still going to be blowing you off target and magnifying the float. I do tend to try and time the gusts of wind but on some days, with a strong wind, it doesn't always work out best unless you force the shot which I would rather not get in the habit of doing.
> Thanks again and if anyone else has any suggestions, I'd be more then happy to try them out.


If you are going to shoot NFAA or FITA/WAF or USA Archery events - - put away the umbrella; you can't use it on the stakes or shooting line. You MIGHT get to use it to shade for glare at an NFAA shoot, but not to Block the wind from blowing you or your bowarm around. 

For FITA/WFA, or USA Archery...using anything larger than a legal sized envelope is NOT permitted on the shooting line to block glare for the shooter and Umbrellas on the shooting line are prohibited. So umbie use is restricted to well behind the shooting line and away from the shooters for when you are waiting your turn to shoot.

There are people on the 3-D circuit that use umbies to block the glare...and to block the wind for the shooter, but I do think the number and size of the umbies is restricted. So, if you are 3-D, then you STILL are going to have to learn how to handle the wind even if you have someone holding the umbie for you. 

The wind will still affect your arrow once it gets buzzing down range...and if you don't know about "bubbling" and other "wind techniques" then the umbie ain't for helping you much - - other than maybe settling your bow arm down some. If you don't know how far to aim off or how much to "bubble" based upon impact point as a result of wind drift...then you are giving away points to competitors that PRACTICE this.



For the wind shooting thingy...everyone hates the wind. FEW people will actually bite the bullet and go out and intentionally practice for score or otherwise on a windy day. Those that don't practice in the wind never really learn how to deal with it and are giving away points to their competitors that DO practice in the wind.

You just have to realize that you and the rest of the competitors are going to miss if the wind is blowing. Whomever handles this the best and those that have practiced in the wind a lot are normally the ones that fare the best on a windy day.

Of course, being originally from Wyoming, I basically had to learn how to shoot in the wind - - - if I wanted to shoot! That included shooting in the wind with hinge-releases, too, and there are little techniques (besides punching the heck out of it - that will wreck you for a few weeks after the event if you do that) that work in the wind with a hinge. On a really windy and gusty day, bets are off with hinges and/or most any other release...just live with it and do the best you can. 
In my book "ProActive Archery" Chapters 29-31 address ProActive preparation and practice for OUTDOOR conditions. Naturally wind shooting techniques are discussed.


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## DssBB (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks Tom,

I mainly shoot 3D and not really looking into shooting Fita although the experience, skills and knowledge gained from longer distance Fita shooting would greatly enhance my overall shooting ability. I have practiced aiming off on targets in various windy conditions and distances as part of learning and understanding how my arrows are effected by wind and how they fly. Luckily for me we do see a fair amount of wind at our club and get plenty of opportunities to practice in it both on the range and the course.
I do also realize that the rest of the competitors are also going to face similar conditions and as you stated, those who can handle the wind and know how to shoot through it are the ones who will fare the best.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer to stick with the hinge release while maintaining and improving my current techniques. I have read all of the good feedback others have posted about your books along with Larry Wises "Core Archery" and will seriously consider purchasing them as a great learning tool and once I have had the opportunity to read yours over, I sure the techniques you discuss in those chapters on dealing with wind will help immensely.


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## HIArcher (Mar 3, 2013)

tagged


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

No truer words have been spoken


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Holy crap, for all you guys that have recieved my articles did you see the post that I made where I talked about Reo Wilde. 

That was the day that I first thought of "SPECTATOR SHOOTING", in the weeks that followed I thought about it a lot and then I sit down and wrote the spectator shooting article from that post. 

For you guys that haven't received my articles they have grown to 55 pages and I have updated them many times and tried to improve them, If you haven't gotten them in a year or so you should pm me and I will send them again in the improved format.

Just remember to send your email.


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