# What do 3d shooters want to see at local 3d shoots?



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

fast800xx said:


> Our club and other surrounding clubs attendance numbers were down a good bit this year. We had a club meeting last night and the question of what would bring more shooters out to shoot again? Do you think having a marked yardage class would help? Offer some type of awards for top shooters in their classes? (if so in what form?)
> We are located in northwest Pa and a lot of the clubs rely on this money generated from the shoots to help support their clubs. We would like to hear what the shooters would like to see?


Marked yardage.... ABSOLUTELY! Known distance is the ONLY form of archery that's growing in North America, unmarked and other forms of target shooting are all declining.

1) Good targets
2) Interesting shots / shot variety
3) bonus ring scoring (preferably ASA 12 because it's generally better located for "hunter", and more challenging for target shooters than IBO center "11"), 
4) known distance class (for those who want to use rangefinders)
5) multiple stakes so everyone can shoot distances they are comfortable with
6) format that accommodates both "fun" shooters and those who enjoy competition
7) novelty targets (long range or moving)


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## Scalian (Aug 25, 2009)

I think known yardage is a must. Anymore almost no one hunts with out a range finder. I think that leads to the average person that might be a hunter that is used to ranging and then shooting doesn't want to come out and have to worry about judging distance. To me it would be like sitting down and doing complicated math all by hand and not using a calculator that we all carry around in out pockets these days.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

I'm a yardage guessing 3d shooter but there is a place for known yardage classes so why not cater to those folks amd have a known class..also have decent targets to shoot at nobody wants to shoot a shot out target.
Have something that makes it fun do a novelty shoot with either a payback pot or a decent prize for a drawing and set it up where everybody can do it..it ain't got to be a frog at 70 yds.have decent refreshments on the range and at the sign up table..and advertise the shoot you would be surprise how many folks would to come and shoot but know nothing about it


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## fast800xx (Jun 24, 2016)

This is great feed back. Please if anyone has any suggestions, put them on here. This information will be taken to our next club meeting. They guys that run the 3d shoots would love to hear all ideas.


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## Sbay (Feb 28, 2003)

Keep the vitals open, don't make it a hammer course, make it tough by hiding yardage using the terrain not by having brush or limbs in the way.
Use a variety of sizes of targets throw small ones in but keep the distance relative to there size.


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## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Are you part of a circuit or doing shoots as just the club? We have a pretty decent local circuit of 6 clubs that rotate each week. Almost all of them provide a lunch to buy as well. We also have team shoots and a team winner at the end. So each shoot draws from those clubs and non club members.

12 ring pots. 2 money classes, open money (50 unknown) and known 50. A women's (40) and men's (50) know yardage and might add a shorter mens know this season. 3 kids classes by age (jr cub, cub, youth). An open, non money class with a shorter unknown yardage course (40). Mens' and women's hunter. Trad options. Fun class can do anything they want to, shoot from anywhere. 

Some new folks don't think they can compete, so giving them options can draw them in. Kid options can bring in the whole family. All 4 of us show up to shoot. And there are several other families that all show up to shoot. 

Don't crowd the course by lumping all the targets too close. And don't make them walk unnecessary distances between targets either. That's a harder line to find sometimes. I'm a member of a club that has a great option for a one way circuit course. But usually lays it out as a there and back. The there and back course can be get crowded and annoying. Especially if you have targets across the trail from each other.


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## Boatman71 (Jul 16, 2013)

I started a thread similar a while back and received some great feedback.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4097026

good luck!!!!


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Is your club loosing people to other shoots the same weekends? Or is it just down in general for all clubs in your area. If some.clubs are doing better and some worse...you mivht want to see whaT there doing different.


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## daleofmesa (Aug 22, 2015)

Every thing that Nestly said, but mostly 1 Good Targets, 4 Known Yardage, 5 Multiple Stakes. When we attend a 3D shoot it is a family affair. My wife and I for sure, but sometimes we bring our kids and grandson. Each of us are shooting at different skill levels. If it is a well run fun shoot we are willing to travel and make a weekend out of it.
Dale


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

In my area the bowhunters can not be ignored, they want a fun course with one shot or so around 40 yards and the rest of them in the mid 30's and lots of upper 20's. With them you can allow some of the limbs and trees crowd the target to make it look more hunting realistic. This is where the majority of the shooters come from.

Also you can get some of the more competitive guys by having asa targets with low back 12s and you need them to be makenzie targets, with us you need the range to be right at a 38 yard average distance with 2 right at 48 to 51 yards at our max and then a good 10 of the targets from 39 to 46 yards and only one target in the 20's This leaves the rest of the targets around the mid to upper 30's.

You can not and will loose shooters if you make all of the targets complicated and long, you must have a distinct seperation between the hunting class and open class. Some of the low level open class shooters will gripe that the course is way to hard but for the most part these guys are going to the known type classes and are not griping near as much. I know in missouri this year I heard much less griping and our asa courses were really challenging all over the state.


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## psehoghunter (Aug 13, 2013)

We like to do half and half known and unknown 

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## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

nestly said:


> Marked yardage.... ABSOLUTELY! Known distance is the ONLY form of archery that's growing in North America, unmarked and other forms of target shooting are all declining.
> 
> 1) Good targets
> 2) Interesting shots / shot variety
> ...


Just what our league does, except for the novelty. We are have our annual meeting to discuss changes and dates in a couple weeks. We shoot from 2nd week in Jan. to 3rd week in Sept. every Sunday, except Easter. Penn/York League


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

fast800xx said:


> Our club and other surrounding clubs attendance numbers were down a good bit this year. We had a club meeting last night and the question of what would bring more shooters out to shoot again? Do you think having a marked yardage class would help? Offer some type of awards for top shooters in their classes? (if so in what form?)
> We are located in northwest Pa and a lot of the clubs rely on this money generated from the shoots to help support their clubs. We would like to hear what the shooters would like to see?


The first thing I would do is to review what you are currently doing and compare it to clubs that are getting a good draw. There are a few clubs that I used to shoot at very frequently up until a few years ago. Some things these clubs did or didn't have......

1. No known distance classes. Known classes are or will be popular for any club. It is a proven fact.

2. They had a ban on range finders from even being on the range. The ASA Known distance classes exploded in attendance _years _ago yet these two clubs would not even let you shoot a "fun" round with a range finder. They approached a kid on the course once because they _thought_ he was using a range finder to check the distance after he shot. He was holding his binos vertically and looking through one lens. OH:

3. They were predominately run and managed by recurve and long bow archers. That of course was NOT an issue. The issue was that they didn't bother to make the targets even somewhat challenging for even competitive Hunter class archers. Years ago when I shot ASA Hunter class I shot in the Open class at these clubs.

4. 3 other clubs opened that were using true ASA classes and the ranges were national tournament level courses with actual ASA targets. The other clubs had a mixed bag of Rinehart, Delta, Mckenzie and an off brand. A third club I rarely go to used all Rinehart targets and IBO scoring. Often this club set a real easy course that wasn't much fun because there was little challenge. The ASA format now has a good bit larger following around here.

5. The 3 "newer" clubs with solid attendance came together and formed the "Virginia Archery Coalition". They started a tournament series and gave real nice ($$$) buckles to the end of the year champion in about 5 classes. 

6. A couple of the clubs that lost serious numbers really did not bother to modify their course even after a few years. It was the same targets in the same lanes shoot after shoot. The new clubs had fresh courses and they modified the course at least a little for each shoot. Now they each have course variations they can set targets on. 

Review what you are doing and you may find that you need to make some changes that might be unpopular with some of the old school regulars but are needed to draw more people in or back. For a couple of years around here no club had a Known distance class. The 3d guys that kept these clubs running and did all the work did not believe in Known distance classes. But once new clubs opened with Known distance classes the old clubs participation numbers began going down. You have to do what you have to do to keep the doors open.

A few club officers should get together and make a trip to shoots that are drawing good numbers. Take notes and like it or not make some changes if you want to keep the club rolling. Any time changes are necessary expect some serious back lash whether it's business or an archery club.


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## Brohalloran (Aug 2, 2016)

I think it would be fun to have a small award even such as a trophy for the winner of every class, small price to pay for something that can make it feel more competitive and important


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Tough call, My group goes to 40 or so 3d tournaments per season and years ago I really liked getting the trophies. It is nice at a end of year shoot to get a shooter of the year one but at the normal shoots I would rather just get a 10 dollar bill. That pays for lunch on the way home and it something to look forward to. 

But

For the younger classes and entry level classes I think you need to give out a trophy or cool little plaque, in the beginning of your 3d shooting it is so nice to get that first place trophy.


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## Bkimbel42 (May 5, 2016)

If shot distances are unknown to shooters be sure to post what the furthest distance they will be shooting is and the shortest. So at least there's a range to judge from...that's a big thing I think would help for Hunter class. 


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I like the clubs that have a simple board where they can print out the places from the previous tournament and staple them on the board, then you come in and take a look and if you were first place then you look for a trophy or you get your 10 bucks.

The other thing I would suggest is that your club has got to do some simple thinking and learn how to get the scores on facebook that evening, with a lap top and some good planning on how to do score cards it is so simple to get a score in the computer within seconds when someone turns it in.

I know for the most part is the poor choice of score cards that makes adding up the scores so complicated, the best score cards we use during the season are the asa score cards. They are simple and easy to use and add up compared to putting x's or check marks in so many of the ones printed out at local shoots. Then in a simple glance you can add up a score and get it in the computer.


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## Repair Man (Sep 13, 2014)

All the above is good, but we also found in Alabama, the clubs that have a good noveltiy shoot, door prizes, and good food draw in the bigger crowds. Focus on a good clean course that is easy to walk and u start gaining families also. The more ways to promote fellowship along with a challenging course is a winner. Posting scores on line asap is a huge plus.


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## Laylo (Sep 7, 2013)

Here in west central WI there are a dozen or more archery &/or sportsman's clubs that cooperate & print a yearly schedule of 3D shoots. local archery & sporting goods stores have the schedules available all year. A little cooperation can go a long way.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

I as a archery dealer I have noticed and sold a lot of single pin slider sights, its time to allow that type of sight in the bowhunter class. the guys that bowhunt don`t understand why that is not a legal sight ? and to be honest why not if it makes them happy, I do allow slider sights on my 40 target 3d range. its all known yardage,range finders are welcomed,any size binocular and so are slider sights in the bowhunter classes. always make it easy ,fun and few rules.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

For local club shoots you must appeal to everyone. The comp shooters there for bigger shoot practice, you need some tough sets and bounce yardages back and forth on open targets. For the hunters you want mid range shots, maybe a bit of off balance shots or tight lanes but still keep clear vitals. For the families you want clear easy to semi easy shots on open lanes for the novice shooters. Maybe even with the ability to step up on some they may not feel comfortable on. Need at least 1 known and a slider/hunter class now-a-days.. and above all else it has to be laid out in a safe manor. Water stops on the course and available food.


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## codym92 (Sep 28, 2015)

I always enjoy shooting a course that offers some unique target options that you don't see every day. Not saying the whole course has to be wild, but come up with some original target situations that aren't seen everyday; helps keep the excitement and element of surprise.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Padgett said:


> I like the clubs that have a simple board where they can print out the places from the previous tournament and staple them on the board, then you come in and take a look and if you were first place then you look for a trophy or you get your 10 bucks.
> 
> The other thing I would suggest is that your club has got to do some simple thinking and learn how to get the scores on facebook that evening, with a lap top and some good planning on how to do score cards it is so simple to get a score in the computer within seconds when someone turns it in.
> 
> I know for the most part is the poor choice of score cards that makes adding up the scores so complicated, the best score cards we use during the season are the asa score cards. They are simple and easy to use and add up compared to putting x's or check marks in so many of the ones printed out at local shoots. Then in a simple glance you can add up a score and get it in the computer.


This type of thing is where older clubs lost a _lot _of ground to newer clubs over the last 5+ years. 

I am an "older guy" so I can say this......... If you're club is being "old school, stuck in the mud" and refuse to at least get into this century then THAT is a big problem. The clubs that are active on social media posting scores, advertising shoots and congratulating people on any kind of archery accomplishment are more "fun". The days of having all the archers hanging out all afternoon waiting for scores to be posted on a board has been a negative for some years now. If someone shoots a personal best score then congratulate them in public (facebook). When a youngster attends his very first shoot take a pic of him or her and post it.

If I want to go to a shoot this weekend I shouldn't have to already be best buds with a very active local archer. It should not take 30 minutes to track down a schedule of shoots. Every winter I spend too much time assimilating a list of archery clubs and tournaments (indoor spots and 3D with address and web site links). I then print it and post it at our indoor league range at a retail sporting goods store (Green Top). I'm amazed at the number of folks that I see looking at it and commenting that they didn't know there were so many 3D ranges and clubs within a 45 minute drive. A bunch of parents comment they had no idea that indoor and 3D archery were so accessible. 

I am not a marketer of any kind but using the modern version of 1,000's of elevated 40'x20' neon flashing signs (social media) distributed nation wide for almost no cost seems like a no brainer to me and simply foolish if you don't. Unfortunately a lot of clubs are run by hard working people that don't have the time or desire to fool with social media. But there should be plenty of younger people that would be thrilled to set something up AND keep it up to date for the price of free shoot admission.


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## Noel Kendall (May 28, 2003)

I make it a point to attend one of the 3D archery shoots every month when it is held. Here are some of the reasons why:

1. They don't disallow range finders. I use the 3D shoot to practice for hunting; therefore, I guesstimate the range to each target and then range it before I shoot. I also don't turn in my score card. I only keep score to remind myself that I need improvement. 

2. They have variety of animal targets. Some of the shoots I go to have 30 shots and 25 are the same McKenzie deer with the remaining five some combination of small animal targets. i.e. coyote, turkey, etc. The shoot I never miss has a large variety of target animals - moose, antelope, turkey, boar, cougar, whitetail, mule deer, bear ( standing and on fours), etc. They even have a lifesize rhino and a 15 ft tall alien. They also offer an option target that is made of steel with a 10 ring size hole cut out. Shooting it is an option but it a bonus target that will get you either 20 points or -0- (and a blown up arrow). The steel target is difficult but not impossible. I've chosen to shoot the steel on occasion when I'm behind my friends by 10 or 15 points. Sometimes I've caught up and sometimes I ended up blowing up a $15 arrow.

3. The paths thru the wood and fields are always mowed where necesary and always well marked. No targets overlap when an errant arrov could be downrange to another target and place the shooters on a different animal in jeaporday. They also make sure there is a solid backstop behind each target. Either a hillside or an actual mat. In the event of a complet target miss the arrow will fly into the bank or the mat. This reduces the chance of a lost arrow AND usually prevents folks slowing the shoot down looking for an arrow.

4. They always have at least 2 or 3 watering stations with ice water in a large cooler and paper cups.

5. They provide cooked hot dogs and brats, chips, soft drinks and water for sale at very reasonable prices.

6. They advertise their shoot schedule in the spring for the whole season that way I can mark my calendar at the beginning of the year. They also make it a point, if possible, to not have their shoot dates conflict with other clubs and/or other archery events such a field sectionals, etc.

7. They have a drawing every shoot for a free round or a free range logo t-shirt. It's not much - but the range fee is $10 and it's a nice surprise if/when you get notified you can shoot for free.

8. The folks that put the shoot on are a husband and wife who own the land, the targets, and I assume make a little profit off of the shoots. They are very friendly to everyone and remember faces and names after you've been there a few times. 

9. The shoots are a minimum of 40 different targets. Folks who travel to a 3D shoot want to shoot. Nothing worse that traveling to a shoot and having 10 targets ( all the same ) that you shoot twice for a total of 20 targts. 

Bottom line, put on a good shoot with a variety of targets, are friendly to folks, and provide a good atmosphere. Heck, they even provide free mosquito repellant for folks who want to use it. Good luck with your efforts


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## Marine96 (Jul 16, 2010)

Utilize social media as much as you can. You can't draw shooters in if they don't know when and where your shoots are. I just brought my club into the 21st century a little over a year ago with a Facebook page. The FB page has helped us bring in shooters. I also post our shoots here in the local shoot section in the states forum, we post on Bowsite.com, Archery Events.com and any other outlet I can find related to archery. 

We also make up simple 8" x 11.5" paper flyers on the computer, then print them off on neon colored paper. I ask members to drop the flyers off at shops they visit.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

My main club that I am a member at had its meeting at the end of year shoot and this year I asked to have a discussion about range finders and we voted as a club and are now allowing them to be out on the course by known and unknown shooters. 

I am a unknown shooter and I attend almost all of the asa national shoots so when I am home shooting the local stuff during the season and I shoot at least 35 of them per season I am working on yardage guessing. Not being allowed to check your yardage after taking the shot beyond sucks and forces us to have to talk about it freaking all the time asking each other what we shot that one for and did you step it off. 

Thank god known shooting is becoming so popular because now there is usually a known shooter in every group of buddies and you can ask them every stinking target what the distance was. Which sucks for the known guy getting asked by all the unknown guys. 

Now, we simply don't talk about yardage hardly at all locally because you take your shot and you check it with the range finder and all it good without having the same stinking dialog all day long every freaking shoot. About all that is said is I was a yard hot or cold on that one.


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## Bitterflinger (May 18, 2016)

Lots of good ideas and suggestions. I might add to provide a good value i.e. dollars to enter compared to number of targets. We have 1 local 3D club and the fee for nonmembers is $15 for 30 target course. A few times a year they have a 40 target course. Also, be friendly and inviting to new shooters. I had never shot 3 d before this summer and went to my first one without knowing anyone. I tied in with a group that contained an older father/son duo and at times they had us laughing so hard it was difficult to shoot straight. I went back for the remaining shoots and will shoot next year as well. Good luck increasing attendance.


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## Marine96 (Jul 16, 2010)

Bitterflinger said:


> I might add to provide a good value i.e. dollars to enter compared to number of targets.


Try to match your entry fee to other clubs around. Around my area, {greater New England} the clubs get $10 for a normal 30 target shoot. Any benefit shoot or money shoot then the entry fee goes up accordingly.

Just an example from what happened in our league.

The league my club belongs to raised the fees by $2 per shoot for at least one season. That move was not taken well by the shooters. Attendance went down league wide because of this. 

While $2 doesn't sound like much, add that up over a season that has 23 shoots. Now that extra $2 just became $46 for one shooter. Take a family of four and now you raised the cost up to $184 for the season. Traveling to shoots cost money, as does food at the shoot, so what happened was shooters were only going to shoots in the league closer to their home.

Last year the league drop the fee's back down to $10 for this season. Attendance numbers went back up again.


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## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

I beg to differ with everyone on this subject !!! The reason 3D shoots are seeing less shooters is "US" the shooters. Let's be honest the guys shooting a hunter class set up step up to the line and fire away, no worries on a 2 minute rule or a 3 let down rule because most guys shooting Hunter Class are there mainly to practice for HUNTING. Now on the other side of the coin are the Open Class shooters and YES I also shoot this class. Open guys are slooow and to compound that at a local club shoot you may have 6 of them together and most of them think they are at an IBO/ASA event and use 2-3 minutes to shoot EACH. Hunter Class guys dread getting stuck behind an Open Class group, I used to have 10-15 guys who shot at the good local clubs, now I am lucky if I can get 3 guys to go to a shoot. Why, because they got sick of waiting 10-15 minutes at every target. It was no longer fun.

Reason No 2 - My local clubs Collins Conservation Club and Randolph Gun Club in WNY used to have great shoots with good crowds. Then they bought more land or had access to more and decided that we the shooters needed to see every inch of it. So we the shooters were now walking 75-100 yds to the next target on several occasions. Again killing the fun factor. Collins is now down to A Thursday night League/shoot with 10 crappy targets for 10 bucks. Randolph is still putting on a decent shoot but their targets are getting old " I think the Moose is 25+ years old" They are trying to hold out but I don't know how much longer they will stick around with the poor turn outs.

I drive over an hour to shoot at PIFA in Erie PA or Dave's Archery in North East PA, also Carrol Rod and Gun in Frewsburg has a good shoot and good targets 'Rineharts". I also try to get to these shoots early and get out before the "sloow guys" get there. So to me we are killing it ourselves, keep your groups small and you guys that want to pretend you are at an IBO/ASA event be courteous to your fellow shooters and let the faster groups shoot through please. JMO


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## TimberGhost74 (Nov 22, 2016)

As a shooter who has not shot a 3d course in 25 years or so, and who has a wife who has never shot a 3d course, I will tell you what I am looking for. 

I am looking for the local shoots. I want nothing to do with ASA, IBO, or any other "regional" type event. I will also stay away from any money shoots. I am looking to have fun. Period. The more serious shoots, the people change, and take away some of the fun. I am too old to deal with arguing over weather the arrow cut the line, or if the foot was not on the stake. A slow moving course is a frustrating course. 

Classes. I am looking for bowhunter set-ups, and known yardages. I know the distance to every tree within 50 yards of my tree stand. 

Reasonable distances. The average shot that I have killed deer at over the years is probly less than 20 yards. I would like to see a set of stakes that go from 15 to 40 yards. Anything more than that, IMO, should be an open class shot. For my wife, I do not care what stakes she shoots this weekend, but her max is 30 yards. We probly will end up just shooting any stake that she wants to shoot. Regardless of what color it is  Now, I know the shoot I am going to this weekend has a 60 yard moose. Yup, I am gonna try it. I have a 50 yard pin, so I know it will be fun to shoot one of them. But if the majority of targets are 40 yards or more, not much fun for someone like me. 

Cost. Not a concern. Frankly, I see many shoots advertised at $10.00. With the cost of targets, and to just maintain the club, that just sounds cheap to me. I see folks think nothing of spending 2k plus on their bows, but whine at a $12.00 entry fee. I would have no issues shooting at $20.00 a person for a 30 target course or bigger. Now, I am all for cutting deals on the kids and families though! I am a firm believer in supporting your local clubs. 

Social media. Use it. Cheap, easy, and VERY useful. I am an auto racing promoter, and the places that thrive, use social media very well. Facebook is usually the first place I have been looking when I want info on a shoot. Most times I end up being disappointed with the lack of info, so then I go to google. 

Cater to the kids. I like to see the young ones shoot for awards. Trophies, plaques, medals, whatever. Give em something. they are the ones that are gonna drag dad out of bed for the next shoot. As an adult, I do not care about the awards anymore, but love to see the kids get em. 

Targets. Keep it fun. I know those targets are expensive. But something other than all deer is fun. When my wife heard that the course this weekend has a stegosaurus, she insisted we go. Rain, snow or shine. Most fun target I ever shot was a turtle floating on the water in a small river. Hooked to a rope, about 10 yards. You hit, you are fine. Pull the rope, and get your arrow. You miss, someone is getting their feet wet. But, a couple targets later was a white tail at 60 yards over a pond. As a youth shooting 40 pounds with a 30 yard pin, it killed the whole day for me. No shorter options, as it was over a pond, with no other lanes. I never went back there. Setting up an indoor shoot at my local club, I noticed all the 3d targets in the barn were whitetail. Oh well, my local club, so I will support it, and hopefully convince to replace beat up ones with something different next time. 

We are gonna hit our first 3d course this weekend. Suppose to be cold, but we do not care. The main reason I am going, is the archery rep for the club e-mailed me back and answered some questions. He was very forthcoming with the info, and told me what the maximum distances I could expect were. Then went on to tell me to feel free to shoot whatever stake we wanted to shoot from, as it was for fun.

Just my $0.02. We love to shoot. Archery, handgun, shotgun, rifle. We just are not competitive shooters. well, except with each other, lol. My wife is the one who wanted to start shooting archery again, so here we go. 3d shoot this weekend, and an indoor animal target league this winter. If all goes well, we will upgrade some stuff such as rests, sights, and arrows, and then hit the 3d scene next summer.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Live music and cold beer..............


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## 3D Archery (May 19, 2016)

I have the You Tube Channel 3D Archery. I have shot at over 70 different clubs so far and I can tell you that you are not alone in the drop off. The biggest thing is getting the word out and ...... making it worth their while to come to your club. Look at it this way: People have so many other things competing for their time, what makes you better or different than all the others? Ask yourself this: "Why should I drive the extra distance to shot yours when I have one that is closer?" Why should they come to you and not some other event, family gathering etc? Most importantly, make them feel appreciated. I cannot tell you how many clubs act like they are doing me a favor. 

You need to know what type of shoot you want to be (Target, Hunting, Skill, etc). Do not try to make it what you think people want, if you do then you end up with a middle of the road course. Have a vision and stick to it. 


This is how I judge a shoot, ask me a month later about it and what will I tell you? You need to have that one or two "wow" shots. What is that? One club put the Gator target out in the lake (it floated on top of the water) and had a kid with a kayak retrieve the arrows. Another took the Carp target and put it out 10 yards away in a pond, under the water! Now there are two shots you will never forget. But they do not have to be so fancy. one club has a 100 yard shot on a Buffalo. Others have moving targets, targets up in the trees. Others make little dioramas (like a bear raiding a campsite). One club had an ingenious method to make a moving wolverine, They simply attached him to a skateboard! 

Many shoots are only open from 7 to 12. Well, if i'm going to drive a few hours, I don't want to be rushed. 

So, what do I like?

Shots that engage my imagination. The all to common broadside bowling alley shot gets boring fast. Don't just drop a target, think about the placement. Add the little details. One club for the turkey target, added a bunch of decoys to make it look like a group of them, instead of the lone turkey we always see. 

Good use of the terrain. - Make it part of your shot. 

Vary the distance, do let me get into a rhythm

Challenge me to make a good and sometimes a great shot, Block half the target, Put it at a heavy angle

I could go on all day.


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## waltw (Jul 22, 2013)

fast800xx said:


> Our club and other surrounding clubs attendance numbers were down a good bit this year. We had a club meeting last night and the question of what would bring more shooters out to shoot again? Do you think having a marked yardage class would help? Offer some type of awards for top shooters in their classes? (if so in what form?)
> We are located in northwest Pa and a lot of the clubs rely on this money generated from the shoots to help support their clubs. We would like to hear what the shooters would like to see?


My club is down in Southeast PA (Pottstown Area) and we're struggling with attendance as well. I've been talking to guys from other clubs in this area and everyone is having trrouble with shooter turnout. We have tried a handful of things with mixed results. I'm not sure what the answer is but this was a pretty lean outdoor 3D season for us.

Here are a couple of things that we're taking a look at. Maybe reading through some of it will spark an idea for your club.

Typically, we put out Unlimited, Bowhunter, Traditional / Youth, and Cub shooting stakes. To try and appeal more to the competitive side of things, this year we switched over to IBO Colors and Distances. It was extra work that really didn't seem to make a difference with most people that we talked to.

In years past we used to set up a 3D course and make minimal changes throughout the season. We would swap out animals and move around stakes but that was about it. This year we basically put out a new 3D course every month - completely tearing down and setting up a brand new course. It was massive undertaking in terms of workload and as much as I personally liked the fresh course every month, opinions were mixed. Some shooters liked the variety and others responded with "Man, I really liked that one shot from last month and was disappointed that it went away this month." Next year I think that perhaps the thing to do would be to put up one course then overhaul it half way through the season (with minor changes throughout the season).

I think my club has a reputation for putting on a tough course. We have rugged terrain (lots of up and down rocky hillsides) that makes for great IBO Worlds practice (part of the reason we went with IBO distnaces and such) but I wonder if it is a turn off. We can't eliminate the terrain and I know that our shooters hate doubles but, I don't know that there is a whole lot we can do to make it easier walking without piling on the doubles or shortening the course.

To try and increase attendance from our club members, this year we introduced a discounted fee ($10 for Non-Members and $8 for Club Members). I'd have to take a closer look at the numbers but I don't think it made much difference. The members that normally came out to shoot still came out. The members that didn't usually attend still didn't come out.

We've started a digital newsletter and routinely email our list with reminders and updates (1-2 times per month depending on what we have going on). It seems to have helped. Attendance is still down but when guys walk through the door and ask how a shoot was - it is generally because they had something else going on and not because they didn't know we were shooting. Facebook has also been helpful but it is unpredicatble. Sometimes an event gets a lot of social traction, other times hardly anyone sees it due to the way Facebook handles advertising and pages.

I believe we are going to be joining a series / league next year with 3 other clubs (each club getting a dedicated weekend) to help cross promote one another. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it all works out and all clubs benefit from it.


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## chugg (Jul 4, 2015)

Our local club does marked and unmarked with a smoker coarse. The smoker coarse is designed to be extremely difficult with steep incline decline shots. Rocks trees partially to mostly obscured vitals. Basically designed to eventually break and damage arrows. When they do it indoors the smokers are ramped in difficulty until a steel rabbit with a hole is shot at 60-70


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

my 2 cents.

Shooters want to see easy to find published results, as soon as humanly possible after the event. I think this in #1.

Many complaints I hear from the occasional 3D shooter is that it takes to long to shoot a course. so, set shorter walking courses, set 20 target courses, manage course traffic. #2

Personally, I wanna see new ASA McKenzie targets like I do at the pro-ams, but I know that aint happening.


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## weedsnager (Jul 4, 2013)

Noel Kendall said:


> I make it a point to attend one of the 3D archery shoots every month when it is held. Here are some of the reasons why:
> 
> 1. They don't disallow range finders. I use the 3D shoot to practice for hunting; therefore, I guesstimate the range to each target and then range it before I shoot. I also don't turn in my score card. I only keep score to remind myself that I need improvement.
> 
> ...


I'm an indiana guys as well, what are your favorite 3D shoots in Indiana ?


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## foamhunter77 (Jul 3, 2007)

Baby sitters!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Cold beer, good food, nice place to sit down and relax afterwards and talk stupid.......


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

I shoot 3D quite a bit. I've shot clubs and competition in PA, NJ, AZ and CA. When applicable, I end up shooting in the Open class because most of the courses have determined adjustable sights as open class.... even though I shoot a short stabilizer and no lenses.

This being said, I prefer to have a mix of easy and challenging targets. Since we are all aware of "easy" targets, I only attached some of my favorite targets from over the years:









This is a deer spread from a Club shoot in Yuma Az. A couple does that are off limits (hit a doe get negative points unless you buy a doe tag... Kinda like taking a muligan on a golf outing)









This target is inside an old car body in Blythe Ca... This is a great risk/reward shot. To score well you need to aim really close to the sheet metal. You have to decide if a 12 is worth risking a zero or worse an arrow.









Novelty/Bonus points for long shots. This bear was 94 yards away, with the desert winds kicking up, it was really challenging just to get hits on the body. Lots of fun.









Some of the club shoots I've done have raised platforms. Great practice for shooting from a treestand.









Creative use of the terrain.


In addition

1) If your club is hosting a competitive shoot (turn in score cards and prizes) allow the shooters to decide if they want to shoot for fun or for prizes. You can delineate the competitors by issuing wristbands. Competitors follow the rules as defined by the club or sanctioning body. People shooting for fun, can shoot from any stake or comfortable distance, use range finders etc.

2) Limit group size to 4 and control the flow on to the course. Have a club member have the groups trickle onto the course in 10 minute intervals. (kinda like a marshall/starter on a golf course)

3) Slower groups step aside and let the faster groups shoot through. 

4) Social Media....USE IT!!! If you don't have members who are Facebookers... Get one of the kids to set up and maintain a FB page. FB is where I found 50% of the clubs/shoots I've participated in.

5) Have the same person who does the FB stuff put the shoot on 3d shoots

Hope this helps.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

At the very least move the stakes or targets or both before the next shoot. I have been to way too many in my area and its the same targets same stake position every shoot every year. I'll shoot it twice if the second time was the same setup I'm not going back.
If you move the stake back 2 yards and the the target back 2 yards it becomes a whole different shot so simple.


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## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

I want to see the course stretched out a bit. We shoot the AHC, out to 40, and the avg shot distance is under 30 yards at our clubs. We rarely see a 40 yard shot


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I absolutely HATE the elevated platforms - A few I have been to aren't too bad but others are horrible and here is my reasons.

They were built many years ago - they are wobbly and rickety.
They were built with hunting set ups in mind, not long stabilizers and back bars (if used for hunter set ups I don't have an issue)
They often aren't very big platforms so only one person can be up there at a time - creates a HUGE back log of shooters walking up and down.


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## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

Padgett said:


> My main club that I am a member at had its meeting at the end of year shoot and this year I asked to have a discussion about range finders and we voted as a club and are now allowing them to be out on the course by known and unknown shooters.
> 
> I am a unknown shooter and I attend almost all of the asa national shoots so when I am home shooting the local stuff during the season and I shoot at least 35 of them per season I am working on yardage guessing. Not being allowed to check your yardage after taking the shot beyond sucks and forces us to have to talk about it freaking all the time asking each other what we shot that one for and did you step it off.
> 
> ...



Nah, it doesn't suck to shoot with the unknown guys and having them ask what it was. I practice with two unknown shooters regularly and they always are asking since we change the distance ourselves fairly often (rather than just using the practice stake). I doubt your buddies mind.


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## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

wannaBelkhuntin said:


> I beg to differ with everyone on this subject !!! The reason 3D shoots are seeing less shooters is "US" the shooters. Let's be honest the guys shooting a hunter class set up step up to the line and fire away, no worries on a 2 minute rule or a 3 let down rule because most guys shooting Hunter Class are there mainly to practice for HUNTING. Now on the other side of the coin are the Open Class shooters and YES I also shoot this class. Open guys are slooow and to compound that at a local club shoot you may have 6 of them together and most of them think they are at an IBO/ASA event and use 2-3 minutes to shoot EACH. Hunter Class guys dread getting stuck behind an Open Class group, I used to have 10-15 guys who shot at the good local clubs, now I am lucky if I can get 3 guys to go to a shoot. Why, because they got sick of waiting 10-15 minutes at every target. It was no longer fun.


My club usually has the Open guys shoot at the "last" stake, so that there isn't anybody behind them for a few targets.

Then again, this won't work if you have a big shoot and every target has a group, but just a though if you can work it that way.


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## dorkbuck33 (Sep 12, 2011)

Garceau said:


> Cold beer, good food, nice place to sit down and relax afterwards and talk stupid.......


I wont shoot 3D if they don't have those . What we wanted last summer was a beer cooler 1/2 way thru .


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

dorkbuck33 said:


> I wont shoot 3D if they don't have those . What we wanted last summer was a beer cooler 1/2 way thru .


Most shoots up here have beer coolers....



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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

waltw said:


> My club is down in Southeast PA (Pottstown Area) and we're struggling with attendance as well. I've been talking to guys from other clubs in this area and everyone is having trrouble with shooter turnout. We have tried a handful of things with mixed results. I'm not sure what the answer is but this was a pretty lean outdoor 3D season for us.
> 
> Here are a couple of things that we're taking a look at. Maybe reading through some of it will spark an idea for your club.
> 
> ...


What is the name of your club and when are your shoots? I'm always looking for new 3D courses and you are well within driving distance for me. I'm in Allentown and shoot 3D Thursday nights.


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## waltw (Jul 22, 2013)

HalonShooter60X said:


> What is the name of your club and when are your shoots? I'm always looking for new 3D courses and you are well within driving distance for me. I'm in Allentown and shoot 3D Thursday nights.


Stowe Archers.

We shoot the 4th Sunday during outdoor season (May through September).

If you're into Indoor 3D, we're part of the Southeast PA Indoor Series (Stowe Archers, Reading Archery Club, French Creek Outfitters, and South Birdsboro Rod and Gun Club) and shoot next weekend (7th and 8th).

Here is a list of what we have going on this month. 

http://stowearchers.com/upcoming-events-2/



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## Jody S. (Jul 9, 2015)

We used to give out trophies. We found people were just cheating to get one so we quit giving them out. Saved the cost of trophies also.


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## Live4hunting (Dec 6, 2004)

I guess the biggest question are these shoots to be a shoot for fun or some league or completion for prize either at that event or combined events. You have 2 types of shooters the ones that get out every week and the ones that get out when they can.

Here in west Pa we have a significant amount clubs that participate. They are all shoot for fun. There is a schedule posted on the net. Pick a consistent week don't over lap with clubs that are close. Multiple classes; youth, women/teens, hunter and competition. Keep cost reasonable $10. To me I do not mind a mix in the comp class long range and technical shots, some times shooting from your knee, off balance, threading needles. Safety is a concern, but its a sport like any other you miss you might not get an arrow back, you don't always get your golf ball back. Mark trails well, you can not change weather but don't have them trigging through water or puddles to get there or retrieve arrows if possible. A cooler of cold water at target 15, really whats a couple cases water cost, put out a donation coffee can. Have food and drinks available after at reasonable price. Beer nice but understandable there can be some legal issues. What you can do is not many clubs have shoots on Saturday making your shoot Saturday and Sunday may increase attendance better on Saturday if you are loosing shooters to another club on Sunday. Advertise on social media, its the way now. Get a member/wife to run a FB page, post pics of the shoot and people shooting every week.


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

waltw said:


> My club is down in Southeast PA (Pottstown Area) and we're struggling with attendance as well. I've been talking to guys from other clubs in this area and everyone is having trrouble with shooter turnout. We have tried a handful of things with mixed results. I'm not sure what the answer is but this was a pretty lean outdoor 3D season for us.
> 
> Here are a couple of things that we're taking a look at. Maybe reading through some of it will spark an idea for your club.
> 
> ...


I shot your course a few weeks ago.... I enjoyed it very much!!! As far as I'm concerned, it was an excellent combination of technical shots to challenge me mentally and using the terrain to challenge me physically. I will absolutely shoot your course again. I will also bring friends!!!

I don't like "cookie cutter" courses where every shot is pretty much the same.... All targets perfectly broadside, on the same level as the shooter and 30-40 yards. (all courses should include some of these shots but 30 of them in a row gets boring)

If anyone here finds themselves in the area of Stowe Archers near Pottsville Pa, be sure to stop in. It's worth the trip.


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## grumpycowboy (Apr 7, 2017)

Pete53 said:


> I as a archery dealer I have noticed and sold a lot of single pin slider sights, its time to allow that type of sight in the bowhunter class. the guys that bowhunt don`t understand why that is not a legal sight ? and to be honest why not if it makes them happy, I do allow slider sights on my 40 target 3d range. its all known yardage,range finders are welcomed,any size binocular and so are slider sights in the bowhunter classes. always make it easy ,fun and few rules.


This right here is a biggie. It allows guys to shoot with their actual hunting rig. 18" stabilizers and up, plus magnification should be the only thing that bumps a guy out of the bowhunter class. 


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

grumpycowboy said:


> This right here is a biggie. It allows guys to shoot with their actual hunting rig. 18" stabilizers and up, plus magnification should be the only thing that bumps a guy out of the bowhunter class.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If this were implemented, I'd shoot a lot more competitive 3D shoots instead of just shooting for beers with my buddies....


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

Pete53 said:


> I as a archery dealer I have noticed and sold a lot of single pin slider sights, its time to allow that type of sight in the bowhunter class. the guys that bowhunt don`t understand why that is not a legal sight ? and to be honest why not if it makes them happy, I do allow slider sights on my 40 target 3d range. its all known yardage,range finders are welcomed,any size binocular and so are slider sights in the bowhunter classes. always make it easy ,fun and few rules.


 yes I posted this: but everybody in 3d need`s this change to happen ,the sooner the better,the 5- pin thing is an over rated rule,besides sliders sell better and bowhunters like them a lot and if attendance at a 3d shoot goes up that`s a good thing too !


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## grumpycowboy (Apr 7, 2017)

Pete53 said:


> yes I posted this: but everybody in 3d need`s this change to happen ,the sooner the better,the 5- pin thing is an over rated rule,besides sliders sell better and bowhunters like them a lot and if attendance at a 3d shoot goes up that`s a good thing too !


As someone new to 3d I was shocked when I put on a 5 pin slider and then found out I was now in the freestyle or open class. I just assumed that if you were using a standard hunting rig you would be in the bowhunter class. Not everybody can afford 2 setups. One for 3d and one for hunting. Then doing all that shooting for 3d with something other than your hunting bow sort of defeats the purpose of 3d for many of us. I just shoot my slider sight hunting rig against sponsored pros with magnification anyway, and realize I'll never win ,but it's a bit disheartening. 


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Jody S. said:


> We used to give out trophies. We found people were just cheating to get one so we quit giving them out. Saved the cost of trophies also.


If you knew they were cheating why do not DQ them or ban them!


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## Mathew Lyman (Feb 25, 2017)

$$$ shoots for unknown classes only. Safe spaces and free Midol samples at the watering stations for K classes.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

grumpycowboy said:


> As someone new to 3d I was shocked when I put on a 5 pin slider and then found out I was now in the freestyle or open class. I just assumed that if you were using a standard hunting rig you would be in the bowhunter class. Not everybody can afford 2 setups. One for 3d and one for hunting. Then doing all that shooting for 3d with something other than your hunting bow sort of defeats the purpose of 3d for many of us. I just shoot my slider sight hunting rig against sponsored pros with magnification anyway, and realize I'll never win ,but it's a bit disheartening.
> 
> the bowhunter name class in the past was called heavy tackle and still should be. and why not have a true bowhunter class ? allow slider sights,maybe only camo bows allowed ? small diameter arrows ? there are way more bowhunters that don`t shoot organized 3d because of too many silly rules than bowhunters that shoot 3d, here`s what happens to all the bowhunters that don`t come to these 3d events> all 3d shoots do not make as much money as they could ? think about it ???? its foolish !I have been saying for years we all need to bring this large group of bowhunters in somehow ???


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## Jody S. (Jul 9, 2015)

nochance said:


> If you knew they were cheating why do not DQ them or ban them!


Mostly before I joined. Hard to prove.


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## Methodman (Feb 15, 2015)

A lot of great ideas.

Money/awards/trophies...NO! It just brings out the worst in people. 

I don't get the slider thing..... Why have moving parts and things that can go wrong in a hunting set up/ Draw...anchor your pin...fire. No time and too much f'ing around to move that pin from 23 to 27...Just kill the thing already. The slider is a point getter, xring obsessed, non practical tool. Combined with a range finder??? That's just sad. Sliders need to be out of Bow hunter,

I go to a great shoot in August every year. They have several fun targets that make you think. For example...3 targets standing at different ranges. Panther, Bear, Antelope. A sign states " Shoot the Temperate Rain Forest" animal." Guess wrong and take a ZERO! Now I gotta think back to high school geography! Or-- a Bear with exposed realistic vitals(heart lungs, arteries, liver) Heart gets 20, major arteries 18. Liver 12 Lungs 15. 

Flying pig- check out Sauk Prairie WI bow hunters website. fun. 

Risk reward targets. Easy target at 20, doe. Long target in brush, extra points.. big buck.

MAKE IT FUN FOR KIDS. They will be back for #s in the following years. If you have a youth program...give em a taste of 3d at the end of the spot shooting program... and give a pass for a free shoot. Invite youth members to help with course set up. 

Its amazing what keeps all of us entertained... Our broadhead league has a wacky shoot night. Cardboard targets- painted like pink deer unicorns. gophers. snakes. a ladybug(all or nothing). Easter bunnies( sick right?) We have a ball. Grown men shooting cardboard deer in ballerina tutus.....


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## skelling2008 (Mar 5, 2018)

1. Varying range distances throughout the course 
2. Uneven terrain to deceive the naked eye on yardage ranges
3. Various species of animals
4. Clearly marked course with direction markers, maybe even a course map, if possible

This is just several but ones that come to mind!


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## tntone (Aug 13, 2006)

Shady spot to jaw with other shooters when your done shooting and good food...


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## 5280hunter (Sep 22, 2017)

The most popular weekend 3D shoots in my area all have a known distance class. It is much less intimidating for those of us who rely (too much) on our range finders. Additionally, it is nice to recognize someone for doing well. Whether that be a 1$ buy in for a money shot at the end (usually unknown distance at the 14 closest to center takes half the pot), or for larger tournaments a cash payout or buckle. The buckle series shoots seem to be the most popular here.


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## upatreearchery (Dec 29, 2017)

nestly said:


> Marked yardage.... ABSOLUTELY! Known distance is the ONLY form of archery that's growing in North America, unmarked and other forms of target shooting are all declining.
> 
> 1) Good targets
> 2) Interesting shots / shot variety
> ...


I agree


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