# Budget Bow Press - no weld



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

So, I'm working with a fella who does not like his portable bow press. Full size press is too expensive for him. He also does not weld. So, I point him to the DIY 2x4 bow presses on Youtube. Tell him to cut a slot with a jig saw. He doesn't have a jig saw and has no idea how to use one. So, I tell him I will come up with something, wooden, and only straight cuts. Hand saw, circular saw. The main problem with a pivoting 2x4 arm DIY bow press, is that the arm swings and therefore the angle of force changes against the limb tip. Other problem is that the riser is fixed in position at the bottom, so you really are crushing the limb.










So, the fellow in this youtube video, has a wooden frame (horizontal member) to provide a base for the riser. Then, a wooden channel on the left and a wooden channel on the right. The limb tips are trapped in a cutout in the wooden channels. Threaded rod connects the tops of the two wooden channels. So, the riser is trapped, and the limb tips are trapped. As you spin the threaded rod, the ends of the wooden channels come together, and the swing of the wooden channels force the limb tips DOWN towards the riser, and the wooden channels force the limb tips together horizontally. The problem is that the wooden arms are swinging DOWN in an arc, so the riser wants to also move vertically down, but the base of this 2x4 DIY press, does not allow the riser to move down. So, the limb tips are being CRUSHED towards the riser and the center of the limbs have to bend. Ideally, you want the limb tips to swing towards each other. So, the riser ALWAYS floats in mid-air, in a fingertip press.

I decided to recreate the linear motion of a FINGERTIP linear bow press, but using scrap pieces of plywood and 3/4 pine. All straight cuts, with either a hand saw or a circular saw, to rip plywood. I decided to re-create the linear motion of a fingertip linear press using a 4 bar linkage. Two parallel links on the left side of the massive wooden finger, and two parallel links on the right of a massive wooden finger. Imagine a wooden screw clamp, and you can "see" what my wooden finger looks like. My drive mechanism is a 6 ft long pipe clamp. The Pony pipe clamp is Acme Thread, so the action is super smoooooth. Why six feet long? Well, my fingers are 12-inches long left to right. Wood is massively strong in compression, so this is way overbuilt. I have 40-inch ATA bows, so, two fingers makes for another 24-inches, and we are up to 64 inches. So, I purchased a 72-inch galvanized 3/4-inch pipe for the drive mechanism. Cuz my linkage arms are nearly 12-inches long, I can handle bows up to 42-inches in ATA, and as short as 30-inches in ATA. I just slide the tail of the pipe clamp and the two arms will swing closer together horizontally, and swing down. I have the 4 link arms, and wooden fingers up on stands, so I have more than enough vertical room, for the press to handle short ATA bows. The press gets shorter, as the arms swing closer together.



















Photo of the wooden finger. 12-inches left to right. Looks like an equilateral triangle rotated 90 degrees. Base of the triangle on the left, apex of the triangle on the right. Linkage arms are running 30 degrees off vertical. This is the left wooden finger. In this configuration, I can work on a 37-inch ATA bow.










Wooden finger closeup of the internals.

So, fingertip linear presses, are two steel fingers. Angle adjustable. But, there are no shoulders, so limb tips CAN slip off the metal fingers sideways. I decided to remedy this, by installing plywood buttress plates of my wooden fingers. These plywood triangles provide shear reinforcement, and create shoulders on my wooden fingers, so limb tips absolutely cannot slip out of my press, in the sideways direction. I notched one of my wooden fingers for draw stop clearance. I can accommodate SKINNY cams in width, and I can accommodate WIDE cams in width, because I incorporated 1/4-inch MDF spacers in my design. I can flip down the two spacers for SKINNY cams, and I can flip up one or both spacers for WIDE cams.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Detail photo of the slot for draw stop clearance.










The wooden fingers are angled, just like the metal fingers on a fingertip linear bow press.










I tied two bungee cords around the 3/4 galvanized pipe and onto a carabiner. This way, I can clip the bowstring and float the bow off the 3/4 galvanized pipe, so I can slide the pipe clamp tail piece to adjust the opening of the wooden fingers. Cuz the wooden fingers are a linkage design, both wooden fingers are ALWAYS in sync. I push on the tail piece of the pipe clamp and both wooden fingers move together, and are always a mirror image for linkage angle.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Closeup detail photo of the draw stop. When using my wooden finger linkage press, since the bow is floating off the bungee cord, push on the pipe clamp tail piece and get the bow press ATA close to correct. Grab the riser with your left hand and fully seat the limb tips by pushing UP on the riser, until you feel the limb tips hit the hook of the wooden fingers. Move over to the crank on the pipe clamp (use left hand). Hold the riser and push UP to seat the limb tips against the wooden fingers, and then, start pressing. Takes 1-2 turns to make full contact with the limb tips and the wooden fingers.










We have full contact with the limb tips. Here is a closeup photo of the pipe clamp crank position.










I have 2 acme threads showing past the clamp head.










Bow is pressed. The cables are fully relaxed and touching the arrow rest.










This only required 3 cranks on the pipe clamp crank. Clamp head moved roughly 3/4 inch to press the bow. String and/or cables can be worked on.










I made the wooden fingers LARGE for strength, and the included angle for the apex of the outer plywood triangle plates are very sharp. Pet peeve of mine is linear press fingers that get in the way of the pegs on a cam, especially when working on TINY cams.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

All done. Works great. Scrap CDX plywood, and 3/4 pine I had lying around. The wooden fingers and pedestals are bolted, to the base and removable. No jig saw required for construction. Inexpensive to build. Linkage bolts are 3/8th threaded rod. Wooden fingers plates are sandwich construction with 1/4 threaded rod. The base is 3/4 CDX plywood, and I added 3-inch tall rails of CDX plywood to stiffen the base. To get the two wooden fingers to pivot in sync, requires that all eight link arms be drilled at the same time. The anchor blocks have to be match drilled. Use a sheet of paper to template the first anchor block hole locations. The only really finicky work is hand filing the angle of the wooden fingers and the projection amount of the wooden fingers, so you get contact with the limb tips (all four limb tips) at the same instant.


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## remyrw (Jun 7, 2017)

Pretty cool design.


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

Awesome! Very clever design. 

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk


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## norsemen (Feb 22, 2011)

So what did the "fella you're working with" say about this contraption?


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## Fisunshine (Sep 3, 2016)

This is awesome. Not sure I fully understand yet but I am sure I will re-read this post several more times. I think you need a video


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

norsemen said:


> So what did the "fella you're working with" say about this contraption?


He is not very handy, and has a buddy who might be able to build something for him. Sent him an email with a link to this thread. As always, a full size linear fingertip press is the best way to go, but he said, too expensive. He does not like how his portable press is working.


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## norsemen (Feb 22, 2011)

nuts&bolts said:


> He is not very handy, and has a buddy who might be able to build something for him. Sent him an email with a link to this thread. As always, a full size linear fingertip press is the best way to go, but he said, too expensive. He does not like how his portable press is working.


If he's not handy, this is going to send him way over the top.


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## RCA Dog (Feb 26, 2017)

That's pretty good, about the only issue I can see is that I don't think you would be able to completely relax the limbs if you had to change them, but only because of the travel of the acme. One of the neat things about parallel bar linkages is that the direction of actuation need not be parallel to the direction of final force. Removing the axles to change cams might be problematic, but that's an easy fix. I have never seen a parallel linkage press before, but I'm pretty new at this. Very innovative design, and I'm sure it will be copied shortly.


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## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

Some pretty clever work in there!


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I am calling it the frog press because the tip holders look like frogs facing each other.

I am still liking the race 59 press. But your design is impressive.


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## flathead (Feb 21, 2008)

Are you going to sell a DVD on how to make one?


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## tutone500 (Feb 19, 2009)

redruff said:


> If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
> 
> Some pretty clever work in there!


Needs some duct tape on it.


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## CarpCommander (Feb 5, 2003)

flathead said:


> Are you going to sell a DVD on how to make one?


I just sent in my money. You too can pre-order a copy for $24.99. Better hurry though, price goes up to $25.00 after the first batch gets sold.


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## Daddymac (Oct 27, 2014)

Just trying to interject a little humor here, but, this kinda reminds me of the guy that has the 70K truck the 10K four wheeler and 40 dollar trailer.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

Coming from a 30 year career carpenter, I'd pick up cans or mow yards till I had the $ to buy one before I'd do this.


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## Dale_B1 (Jan 31, 2004)

frog gigger said:


> Coming from a 30 year career carpenter, I'd pick up cans or mow yards till I had the $ to buy one before I'd do this.


Kind of my thoughts also!!!!!!! No way you would put my almost $2000 hunting bow in something that looks like an accident waiting to happen.
Dispite what he says I see all kinds of things in the way to work on the bow properly.
Besides if he can't use a jig saw it is a total laugh this guy could even attempt to build this thing!!!!!


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)




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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

frog gigger said:


> Coming from a 30 year career carpenter, I'd pick up cans or mow yards till I had the $ to buy one before I'd do this.


I'm not a carpenter, but I agree with the rest of this post. That's the most Rube Goldberg press I've seen yet. It may work, but I'd be embarrassed to post it on AT or any other site that archers visit.

Alan, normally I agree with you and stand behind you, but not this time.

Allen


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## hunter9264 (Mar 7, 2018)

Nice job. Can you replace limbs using this press?


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## Hoythunter01 (Oct 23, 2005)

You know....I see the wood clamp (pipe and clamp attachments) and why wouldn't someone fasten the fingers and the finger plate to these attachments. So, imagine bow press fingers mounted to that wood clamp. You wouldn't be able to completely relax the limbs and take the bow apart, but you could still relax the strings and do any work you needed to.
Just a thought.......


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

Swap the acme rod for a longer one a longer pipe and ya could easily have enough travel to break down a bow.

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## kicker338 (Nov 30, 2008)

Dale_B1 said:


> Kind of my thoughts also!!!!!!! No way you would put my almost $2000 hunting bow in something that looks like an accident waiting to happen.
> Dispite what he says I see all kinds of things in the way to work on the bow properly.
> Besides if he can't use a jig saw it is a total laugh this guy could even attempt to build this thing!!!!!



Better yet why didn't you just say it's an unapproved press.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Bro seriously...Thats a disaster waiting to punish someone! No way.... lol...


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

kicker338 said:


> Better yet why didn't you just say it's an unapproved press.


Funny!


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## kzz1king (Jan 21, 2007)

Rough crowd.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

By the time you factor in what the individual's time is worth.....they could be a decent portable, or a good entry level in-line......of course that all depends on what they feel their time is worth...


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

$99 for a synunm and I dont see why he would have a issue working with it. 

Isn't there a guy that makes presses on here for like $150, onmi press or something like that.


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## SpyderSlayer (Oct 3, 2017)

*A slightly more simple wooden bow press I made when I bought my first bow*

This portable wooden bow press was made entirely from plywood with as few cuts and pieces as possible. Designed to lay as you see it, then tilt it on one side or the other, or turn it upside down...all while the bow stayed pressed. I've never seen another like it, except more complicated and heavier versions. It worked on all my compounds, but was kluncky and slow, and I never knew when it was going to bite me. I am much happier with my Easy Press...That is a real simple example of American ingenuity and factory direct service!


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

SpyderSlayer said:


> This portable wooden bow press was made entirely from plywood with as few cuts and pieces as possible. Designed to lay as you see it, then tilt it on one side or the other, or turn it upside down...all while the bow stayed pressed. I've never seen another like it, except more complicated and heavier versions. It worked on all my compounds, but was kluncky and slow, and I never knew when it was going to bite me. I am much happier with my Easy Press...That is a real simple example of American ingenuity and factory direct service!


Nice. But, the naysayers will say you cannot pull out an axle, and you cannot swap cams and you don't have enough travel to completely relax the limbs and...and...and nobody will put their $2000 hunting bow in a DIY contraption. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your design works. That's all that matters. But, the plywood won't handle my 120 lb custom limbs. Uh-huh. The plywood is an elegant solution, and sure, a pipe clamp press can only compress the limbs enough to change the twists in a string or a cable. That's all a beginner is going to do, who cannot afford a full size press. I'm working on Rev 2, with a long travel threaded rod. 

Nicely done.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I've put a matrix back together with paracord and two sticks...but I'm not gonna post how to do it on the internet and get someone hurt.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

3/4-inch coupler. Rated for 6750 pounds. That's over 3 tons of load. This is strong enough to handle even a $2000 hunting rig. For the DIY budget wooden bow press. I had some 3/4 inch threaded rod lying around.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> 3/4-inch coupler. Rated for 6750 pounds. That's over 3 tons of load. This is strong enough to handle even a $2000 hunting rig. For the DIY budget wooden bow press. I had some 3/4 inch threaded rod lying around.


I dare you to park your full-size car on those two pieces right there...


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Wood has good compressive strength as long the load runs parallel to a relative straight grain.. on the contrary.. wood has low strength when u apply loads perpendicular to the grain (low bending strength).. looking at your contraption and the "loose" tolerances and sloppy build im highly suspicious.. theres no way on gods green earth id ever put a bow in that... your "nuts".. scrap pine and plywood laying around.. build a bird house.. less apt to injure somebody..


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Can we agree that some people should just stick to shooting and not working on bows? 

I think N&B's client is a prime suspect.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

I think I'd just gone this route to achieve the same thing.
http://www.skinnymoose.com/mostlyarchery/2009/12/08/diy-25-bow-press/


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## flathead (Feb 21, 2008)

I wish that Mr. Nutz would draw a bunch of straight lines on the original photos so the nay sayers could understand how this rattle trap works.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

$3.29 for the 3/4 coupling. Hack saw and split into three pieces. More hand saw work, to create split bearing blocks.










Goal is to make a long travel press, to fully relax a bow on the cheap.


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## Dale_B1 (Jan 31, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> $3.29 for the 3/4 coupling. Hack saw and split into three pieces. More hand saw work, to create split bearing blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your attempting to justify a piece of work out of wood that looks like a five year old built and is a diaster waiting to happen. It has nothing , notta to do with the threaded rod or the coupler! You can't be that nieve to think that is what the negative comments are about.


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## Henrikin (Jan 10, 2014)

I love how some of you are bashing him for a creative work that looks like it will definitely work. Yet, he doesn't care and is posting anyways lol I like the idea Nuts! You have great attention to detail so I am positive that it will turn out amazing! Looking forward to the finishing product! 

PS: I am gonna post a form topic so I expect your criticisms on it! I want to become a better target archer!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

A 3/4 coupling @$3.29 cut down to make 3 nuts?
Thought we were working on a tight budget. 3, 3/4 nuts cost .39 cents, minus the expense of the hacksaw and the labor to cut.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

Did I miss something but did April 1st come early this year? I put this up as something NOT to use / make .
Did some one forget to take there meds?
The only good thing I could see this for is starting a bonfire


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

frog gigger said:


> A 3/4 coupling @$3.29 cut down to make 3 nuts?
> Thought we were working on a tight budget. 3, 3/4 nuts cost .39 cents, minus the expense of the hacksaw and the labor to cut.


The plywood is scrap plywood, from a warehouse project. Rebuilding the range wall. Pine boards from a kitchen counter demo. 3/4 threaded rod was lying around in the garage, for a project I never built. Same for the 3/4 coupling nuts. Custom cut the coupling nut to fit the split bearing blocks flush. The point being, use what you have lying around, or if you don't have any threaded rod and don't have any nuts in the garage, go purchase some threaded rod and some nuts to fit. Why 3/4 threaded rod? Cuz, thats what was lying around. Noticed the sticker on the 3/4 coupling nut has a working load of 6750 lbs. Over 3 tons rated capacity for tension. Should be more than enough capacity for a $2000 hunting rig, don't cha think?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> The plywood is scrap plywood, from a warehouse project. Rebuilding the range wall. Pine boards from a kitchen counter demo. 3/4 threaded rod was lying around in the garage, for a project I never built. Same for the 3/4 coupling nuts. Custom cut the coupling nut to fit the split bearing blocks flush. The point being, use what you have lying around, or if you don't have any threaded rod and don't have any nuts in the garage, go purchase some threaded rod and some nuts to fit. Why 3/4 threaded rod? Cuz, thats what was lying around. Noticed the sticker on the 3/4 coupling nut has a working load of 6750 lbs. Over 3 tons rated capacity for tension. Should be more than enough capacity for a $2000 hunting rig, don't cha think?


I'm calling the cops. Someone obviously stole Alan Lui because Alan Lui is smart enough to know that the bolt (or all-thread in this case) is ALWAYS the limiting factor in threaded shear strength.


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## kicker338 (Nov 30, 2008)

Henrikin said:


> I love how some of you are bashing him for a creative work that looks like it will definitely work. Yet, he doesn't care and is posting anyways lol I like the idea Nuts! You have great attention to detail so I am positive that it will turn out amazing! Looking forward to the finishing product!
> 
> PS: I am gonna post a form topic so I expect your criticisms on it! I want to become a better target archer!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


I'm not beating up on him at all, I do like thinking outside the box, but I sure got beat up by him about the nitehawk press, constantly stating how it was unapproved.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Screw drive mechanism is complete. 3/4 nuts are contained inside split bearing blocks (wood). The bearing blocks are glued together and caged with sheets of plywood.










This diy screw drive press is NOT approved for the Hoyt Past Parallel limbs. I would only use it for parallel limb tip bows, or long ATA target style bows. This is a FINGERTIP, linear bow press on the cheap. ZERO contact with the middle of the limb, so not a crow bar style press. 3 ft of threaded rod, should provide enough travel to fully relax any bow.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Almost production ready! Just got let that glue set-up in the threads! why isnt this thread in DIY forum?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I'm needing a PVC draw machine. Only problem is the volatile organic vapors get me so I need instructions on how to get it done with duct tape.

Please provide instruction.


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

tsilvers said:


> Almost production ready! Just got let that glue set-up in the threads! why isnt this thread in DIY forum?


Yes I think the same I used to as the same question about UNK Bond when he had things like this & they werent in the DIY forum . I guess it depends who you are


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

Bobmuley said:


> I'm needing a PVC draw machine. Only problem is the volatile organic vapors get me so I need instructions on how to get it done with duct tape.
> 
> Please provide instruction.


LOL good 1


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

nuts&bolts said:


> Noticed the sticker on the 3/4 coupling nut has a working load of 6750 lbs. Over 3 tons rated capacity for tension.


Alan I thought the 6750lbs rating is if all threads from the coupling are engaged on all threaded rod. Now if you cut it shorter didn't you lower the rating?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Outsider said:


> Alan I thought the 6750lbs rating is if all threads from the coupling are engaged on all threaded rod. Now if you cut it shorter didn't you lower the rating?


If one coupling is rated at 6750 lbs, then, when I cut the coupling into three sections and install all three sections, I still have the same load rating. Regardless, 3/4 threaded rod is way over-built for a linear bow press. Just to satisfy all the folks who worry about load ratings on home built equipment. Each of the cut couplings are encased in split bearing caps, and then, I glued the two halves together, and then, I sandwiched the bearing caps between two sheets of plywood.










I was too lazy to goto the hardware store, so I just hacksawed the coupling to fit the width of my 1X stock, which I hand sawed into a split bearing cap.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

You might be a red neck if.... :zip:


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

So, here is the threaded rod drive mechanism, for version 2 of the Budget wooden bow press. Think of a pipe clamp. Narrow strip of hardwood on the right. Drilled two holes, hole at each end for 3/8th threaded rod. Double nuts on the left edge of the hardwood strip at the top of the picture. Washer, then, on the other side of the hardwood strip, another washer and another set of double nuts. I had some narrow wall pipe lying around, so I used that as a spacer. Stack of 3/8ths washers, as a spinning handle, and topped that off with another set of double nuts. Bottom end of the hardwood strip, I put in the counter weight. Short length of 3/8ths threaded rod, and some double nuts on the left of the hardwood strip and some double nuts at the top of the stack of counterweight washers. Spins really nice.

Moving left, you see the L shape block of wood. It's one of the bearing blocks, and I glued and screwed a long plywood plate. This is the "pipe clamp head". This will be glued and screwed to the wooden bow press finger. Bearing block means I have a 3/4 nut caged/trapped inside the wooden block.

Moving left, I have a wooden square "washer". No nut inside. Moving to the far left in the picture, I have the 2nd bearing block. So, that means I intend to use only 2 out of the three bearing blocks I built. So, the tension capacity will be only 2/3 of the 6750 lb coupling nut rating. Sigh. My wooden bow press will only have 4500 lbs of load capacity.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

So, I pinned the crank handle to the threaded rod. Drill through the spindle with a 1/8th drill bit. Then, when you get as far as you can depth wise (put machine oil in the hole), then, step up to the next larger size drill bit. Go up in drill bit diameter in small amounts. Eventually, I got up to the 1/4-inch drill bit size, and put a bolt through the spindle, through the 3/4 nut, through the 3/4 threaded rod, and out the other end.



















Crank is now locked to the threaded rod.


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

Bobmuley said:


> I'm needing a PVC draw machine. Only problem is the volatile organic vapors get me so I need instructions on how to get it done with duct tape.
> 
> Please provide instruction.


Here ya go Bob. $40 bucks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EplVRya3c10


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## chawk541 (Mar 23, 2018)

thanks for sharing this!


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

Wow. Well done!


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## Mawgie33 (Jan 1, 2018)

That press does not look safe to me, and it's a tad rustic. Here's what I did, and I doubt it cost any more than all that hardware and wahsers you used. Food for thought...........(laminated pieces of wood+pipe clamp+PVC fittings).


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## BulldogBowCoach (Oct 19, 2017)

Interesting for sure. Definitely an options for guys that can'd weld


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## Walz10 (Jul 24, 2016)

Honestly, nuts press is pretty ingenious considering the perimeters of all straight cuts he gave himself to work in. I’ll agree with a bunch of the things people have said in this thread but he gave himself a pretty big challenge and did it. Could you have done what he did given the same limitations? I do think the big thing here is that if someone isn’t very handy then they probably shouldn’t be fooling with their strings and cables. That being said good shops that are willing to spend the time or have the knowledge to set up or tune a bow properly can be difficult to find in a reasonable distance. But I’m probably not telling you guys anything you don’t already know........


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## JonJonPhenom (Feb 14, 2011)

video would be great.... good job


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## compaq4 (Jan 26, 2013)

Diggin the design!


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## TheChemist (Apr 6, 2018)

Awesome project! Thanks for all the details


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## kzz1king (Jan 21, 2007)

Mawgie33 said:


> That press does not look safe to me, and it's a tad rustic. Here's what I did, and I doubt it cost any more than all that hardware and wahsers you used. Food for thought...........(laminated pieces of wood+pipe clamp+PVC fittings).
> 
> View attachment 6446511


Looks good. What is and purpose of the blue pieces? Would you change anything if you built another? Asking because I may copy it. Thanks
Wayne


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## Robert43 (Aug 2, 2004)

I rate this press as good as the Night Hawk press LOL seems that Nuts has given up posting about ti


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