# Eastern Kansas Public Land



## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Last year, a friend and I went to eastern Kansas on a public land whitetail hunt. We hunted Fall River Wildlife Area. We planned a 2 week hunt in November and we were extremely disappointed. Hunting pressure was so bad that it made it difficult to hunt. Everywhere we went, we ran into hunters, treestands, or signs of where someone had recently been hunting. We checked other public areas in our unit, but had the same results. It got to the point that the competition for hunting spots was getting a little too heated for us, so we left a week early. Has anyone else had similar experiences in Kansas on public land? It seemed like the western part of the state may have been a better choice, considering that there is much more public land in the form of walk in hunting areas. Again, anyone's input is greatly appreciated. We may plan another trip if we can get away from some hunting pressure. :angry:


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## Bowhunter110 (Nov 13, 2009)

go door to door and ask permission from farmers... make sure you specify that you want to BOWHUNT and you'll have WAY better results.


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## hntnksn (Jan 18, 2008)

haha yeah western kansas has more land. but less trees and 10x as many bird hunters. most of that land you see as WIHA are just an open wheat field with 0 cover on it. so good luck with that.

out of all these hunters you encountered how many were NR? i'll bet most of them.

i hear guys saying how great the new tag system is here. but what good is it to get the tag if everyone else gets one too? it used to be a big deal to draw a NR tag. but this is a perfect example of how the system works against you.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

To the OP, I'm interested to hear this too.

BUMP for a good thread.


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## 170p&ywhitail (Aug 29, 2009)

Good Luck asing Farmers, us locals barely have a chance, seems like everything is leased up! The hunting pressure is getting VERY high from SC Ks to the East. I'd stay home if I were you:wink:


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

170p&ywhitail said:


> Good Luck asing Farmers, us locals barely have a chance, seems like everything is leased up! The hunting pressure is getting VERY high from SC Ks to the East. I'd stay home if I were you:wink:


Come on man. 

Like it or not, NR hunters will ALWAYS be a "nuisance" to your state. I too live in a big buck state, and I run into plenty of NR hunters when I go hunt public land a few times each year, but I understand that its not going to change. I could stay here and probably have a better chance at a big buck, but I, like so many others, look to venture out of state for the adventure, not to take all your bucks. Keep in mind that us NR hunters that are such an annoyance during deer season are also regular people when deer season isn't in, and encouraging us to keep out of your state is something that we remember ALL year. :wink:


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## bulldog18 (Jan 20, 2006)

The bad thing about south central and southeast Kansas is that public hunting is very populated unless you want to or willing to walk at least 1-2 miles to your hunting area. The other thing is the popularity given to Kansas by everyone on the hunting channels. This brings in more hunters to the state. The availability of private land to hunt is greatly reduced. I have lived in southeast Kansas all my life and it can get rough finding a place to hunt. Therefore this puts more people in the public hunting areas. The other contributor in southeast Kansas is the amount of ground that is being leased by hunters is at a very high level. Kansas also dropped any regulations on guides, so anyone can be a guide and offer hunts. Sorry about your experience. Hope you consider coming back, Kansas does have great deer and hunting.


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## BCFrye_Kansas (Mar 5, 2007)

hntnksn said:


> haha yeah western kansas has more land. but less trees and 10x as many bird hunters. most of that land you see as WIHA are just an open wheat field with 0 cover on it. so good luck with that.
> 
> out of all these hunters you encountered how many were NR? i'll bet most of them.
> 
> i hear guys saying how great the new tag system is here. but what good is it to get the tag if everyone else gets one too? it used to be a big deal to draw a NR tag. but this is a perfect example of how the system works against you.


Hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't apply here if I were dependent on public land. 

KDWP is working really, really hard to destroy our deer herd.....


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## Schroeder 188 (May 11, 2007)

*public hunting*

good luck I hunt a lot of private ground inKS for the last 12 years, with the new tag system has killed public hunting in KS. Gun season is crazy and they kill everything. It will only get worse good luck.


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## crockett (Apr 6, 2008)

some of you guys are just babies! i've been hunting all over the midwest for nearly 20 years and ALWAYS FIND SOME PLACE TO HUNT THAT OTHERS ARE OVERLOOKING! some locals are just dicks and they are usually the ones that couldn't kill in a zoo! when you meet the good ones you usually have friends for life and it gets easier from there.
network with the local farmers and after a couple years you'll have plenty of ground too hunt usually for free!
best part about the guys that find every reason too ***** is you never see them again because an out of state diy hunt is just not for them!
good luck, work hard, and meet the RIGHT PEOPLE and you will have a good time!:thumbs_up


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## BCFrye_Kansas (Mar 5, 2007)

sirkle said:


> Come on man.
> 
> Like it or not, *NR hunters will ALWAYS be a "nuisance" to your state*. I too live in a big buck state, and I run into plenty of NR hunters when I go hunt public land a few times each year, but I understand that its not going to change. I could stay here and probably have a better chance at a big buck, but I, like so many others, look to venture out of state for the adventure, not to take all your bucks. Keep in mind that us NR hunters that are such an annoyance during deer season are also regular people when deer season isn't in, and encouraging us to keep out of your state is something that we remember ALL year. :wink:


I don't think you could be more wrong, love having NR hunters, and hope everyone goes home with a trophy. What's killing KS, is everyone that wants to shell out 400$ get's a permit. Translates into an incredible amount of hunting pressure, and hunters that go home unhappy. Very unfortunate...


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## backstrap steve (Feb 27, 2008)

Not all of us r d/ck$ some of us don't mind. Its when they venture off the public hunting ground to tresspass on my private ground I get pissed. Study hard for land. You might be better of in south central kansas. Close to oklahoma. There are some studs down there. Hell kansas could use all the extra revenue we can get. All we ask is please follow the rules!


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## Rockyoutdoors (Jul 31, 2008)

I have spent several years hunting Kansas public ground and I see more and more hunters each year. Definitely not the quality hunter experience of years past.


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## breakaleg (Feb 9, 2005)

alphawolf you should give MD a try.I live in cecil county which is right in the corner of DE and PA.We have some good public land around here and you got about 4000 acres in kent county which is the next county south that has very good hunting to.I think you would do better here then you would in Kansas will all the pressure.The 4000 acres in kent is basically 4 or5 pieces that are very close together and have good hunting.Its called millington and if you spent a week in therem morning and night I would think you would atleast come acrosss a good one or two.It may be a little smaller then 4000 but its a very large area, you may want to bring a gps cuz u cud get lost its so big.The deer inm my profile came off public land here in cecil county.I have shot 5 wall hangers in the last 6 years here in cecil county all on public land all with a bow.You put your time in and let some small deer pass and u never know what you might see. Later Roy


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

crockett said:


> some of you guys are just babies! i've been hunting all over the midwest for nearly 20 years and ALWAYS FIND SOME PLACE TO HUNT THAT OTHERS ARE OVERLOOKING! some locals are just dicks and they are usually the ones that couldn't kill in a zoo! when you meet the good ones you usually have friends for life and it gets easier from there.
> network with the local farmers and after a couple years you'll have plenty of ground too hunt usually for free!
> best part about the guys that find every reason too ***** is you never see them again because an out of state diy hunt is just not for them!
> good luck, work hard, and meet the RIGHT PEOPLE and you will have a good time!:thumbs_up


That's kinda what I was betting on. I mean, I'm not one of those self-righteous "I'm God's gift to bowhunting" types, but I like to think I decent at it. I've got the motivation to work harder than your average "I just wanna walk 200 yds from the truck" guys so maybe I can find some of that overlooked land. 



BCFrye_Kansas said:


> I don't think you could be more wrong, love having NR hunters, and hope everyone goes home with a trophy. What's killing KS, is everyone that wants to shell out 400$ get's a permit. Translates into an incredible amount of hunting pressure, and hunters that go home unhappy. Very unfortunate...


You've got the right attitude man!! :smile: That's how I am about my home state too. I hear you though about the permits, I'm sure they sell more and more of the leftover tags every year, but hey, it's a big state, right? With all the WIHA's there's gotta be a few bucks scattered around that haven't seen a NR hunter. :smile:



backstrap steve said:


> Not all of us r d/ck$ some of us don't mind.* Its when they venture off the public hunting ground to tresspass on my private ground I get pissed.* Study hard for land. You might be better of in south central kansas. Close to oklahoma. There are some studs down there. Hell kansas could use all the extra revenue we can get. All we ask is please follow the rules!



I hear that!!


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Man I just hate to read another nonresident hunter came away from Kansas unsuccessful.....and a week early also. Be sure and tell all your friends of the horrible time you had in KS. Darn shame.

Didn't you know that there are no deer here anyway?:darkbeer:


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## gcjhawk (Dec 10, 2008)

The Fall River area used to be an awesome area to deer hunt. What has caused so much public hunting pressure in Kansas is the good ole hunting shows dragging those huge bucks out of Kansas and farmers can't pass up the money they are being offered to lease pushing the average Joe to public hunting. I am lucky enough to have a farm in the family. Most of the places I grew up hunting I can't hunt anymore do to being leased out. Your best bet is to find a farmer who has hit a deer with his car.


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## 170p&ywhitail (Aug 29, 2009)

sirkle said:


> Come on man.
> 
> Like it or not, NR hunters will ALWAYS be a "nuisance" to your state. I too live in a big buck state, and I run into plenty of NR hunters when I go hunt public land a few times each year, but I understand that its not going to change. I could stay here and probably have a better chance at a big buck, but I, like so many others, look to venture out of state for the adventure, not to take all your bucks. Keep in mind that us NR hunters that are such an annoyance during deer season are also regular people when deer season isn't in, and encouraging us to keep out of your state is something that we remember ALL year. :wink:


I wasn't trying to come across in a negative way, thats why I put the _smiley _@ the end to show I was kidding, I was simply stateing what I have delt with in this area, all the ground I grew up hunting on is leased, I have knocked on many doors just to be told sorry already got it leased and thats fine, I am very blessed to have a buddy that farms and lets me hunt and to have found a couple farmers that I help out in trade for hunting. Non-residents _are_ everyday people like you and me and I have met a few from Wisconsin, Arkansas, & Texas and have become friends with some of them & welcome them them back every year, So with that said, I hope you realize now I wasn't trying to be an A-hole.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

170p&ywhitail said:


> I wasn't trying to come across in a negative way, thats why I put the _smiley _@ the end to show I was kidding, I was simply stateing what I have delt with in this area, all the ground I grew up hunting on is leased, I have knocked on many doors just to be told sorry already got it leased and thats fine, I am very blessed to have a buddy that farms and lets me hunt and to have found a couple farmers that I help out in trade for hunting. Non-residents _are_ everyday people like you and me and I have met a few from Wisconsin, Arkansas, & Texas and have become friends with some of them & welcome them them back every year, So with that said, I hope you realize now I wasn't trying to be an A-hole.


No worries! I know you weren't trying to be an Azzz, and neither was I. :teeth: I guess I just want to hear somebody from KS give us some good advice as to how to have the best odds on a DIY hunt there. I just really want to hunt in another area, and of course would still like to have a chance at a booner while I'm at it! :darkbeer:


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## 170p&ywhitail (Aug 29, 2009)

Well I would say Western, Ks would be a guys best bet for not bumping into as many people, maybe a bird hunter now and then, take a ground blind and scout it out early morning to watch for there travel routes back to a bedden area. Thats what I'd do.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I was out of state this past season from 11-6 thru 11-25. But before and after that I did not see the hunter #'s you are talking about. The same for the season before that, and I was here all November then. Maybe your not lookin in the right places.
One thing you can bet on is if there are 4 vehicles in a lot 3 are hunting permanant stands. The deer have patterned them, so you can use other hunters to your benefit.
I hunted early October at a spot near where I live that gets alot of pressure.
3 other vehicles pulled up as I was gearing up, I left the lot 45 minutes before shooting light. Walked 500 yards and set up on the ground, in the middle of some cedars. Had 2 small bucks walk by at less than 10 yards, 3 doe singles in bow range. Saw no other hunters. Left about 2 hrs after sunrise, the others are back at their vehicles complaining about too many hunters and not seeing deer.:zip: All I could say was Ill see ya later.
The deer continued to move thru that area all early season. Never saw other hunters there, but saw plenty of vehicles in that lot.

Sometimes the best hunting is along the road BETWEEN lots.
You walk the transision zone along the road and look for sign.


marty


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

sirkle said:


> No worries! I know you weren't trying to be an Azzz, and neither was I. :teeth: I guess I just want to hear somebody from KS give us some good advice as to how to have the best odds on a DIY hunt there. I just really want to hunt in another area, and of course would still like to have a chance at a booner while I'm at it! :darkbeer:


Shooting a B&C buck on public land in Kansas will not be easy.
But P&Y is doable. Maybe you need to try another area or another time of year. Bucks are killable at times other than peak rut.:teeth:
You just need to undestand how to hunt em out of the rut.

marty


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

By the way I find it hard to believe you could not find a piece of public hunting ground in the two units your tag is good for that had a hundred acres of unpressured ground.

marty


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## outdooraholic (Apr 15, 2008)

get as far away from wichita and similar sized cities as possible. find the deepest/farthest off the beaten path spot possible....expecially if its only accesible by boat...and avoid rifle hunting. not trying to be a "rifle hater" but its definatly the most popular time to be in the woods.

sorry i know all of these are "well no duh" but its true.


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## kansasheadhunt (Nov 27, 2008)

Here in central Kansas, public hunting is worthless. I have hunted it in the past and always get screwed up by other hunters that decide to walk in to the stand at first light. I have also seen very few mature bucks on public hunting because most bucks are shot at 2 years old on public ground. My advise to nonresident hunters who want to harvest a nice mature buck in Kansas is to save their money and pay a trespass fee to hunt some prime riverbottom ground around here.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

zap said:


> Shooting a B&C buck on public land in Kansas will not be easy.
> But P&Y is doable. Maybe you need to try another area or another time of year. Bucks are killable at times other than peak rut.:teeth:
> You just need to undestand how to hunt em out of the rut.
> 
> marty


I hear ya on that. Also, when I said Booner earlier I don't mean that I necessarily expect to "stumble" into a 150" or even a 140" buck in a week or two on public land. I understand what reality probably will be.  Anyway, this is some good info coming.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Booner would be over 180, I think.
140 aint too hard to come by.

marty


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

zap said:


> Booner would be over 180, I think.
> 140 aint too hard to come by.
> 
> marty


Post up pics of all your 140+ public land bucks.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I have bowhunted only two years and shot both bucks those seasons on a private farm.
But I know what I have seen on public land those seasons.
Unfortunately I was not able to connect due to operator error, I have figured out a few things in those two years though.
Next season public only, maybe.
So.
You will have to wait a few months.

I have only deer hunted for 4 seasons, two with gun two bow only.
So I dont have lotsa pics of bucks I have taken on public land.
I have shot some good ones on private in Kansas though.










This one was shot a few hundred yards outside city limits, he came from the city lake where he bedded. So you dont have to go miles into the wilderness, you just have to go where the other hunters dont go. There are lotsa those places on public land.
Although a rifle kill that buck is special to me because I was hunting HIM speciffically. MY FIRST WHITETAIL KILL. No bait, no lease, no outfitter. Saw the buck in the summer and asked for permission to hunt. Waited for 5 days and there he was at 60 yards.:teeth:
marty


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

zap said:


> I have bowhunted only two years and shot both bucks those seasons on a private farm.
> But I know what I have seen on public land those seasons.
> Unfortunately I was not able to connect due to operator error, I have figured out a few things in those two years though.
> Next season only public, maybe.
> ...


That is what I thought.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

What did you think?
I think that if someone has two weeks to hunt on public land in kansas during the rut and they cannot shoot a 140 or better deer they are deficient in their hunting skills.:teeth:

marty


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

zap said:


> What did you think?
> I think that if someone has two weeks to hunt on public land in kansas during the rut and they cannot shoot a 140 or better deer they are deficient in their hunting skills.:teeth:
> 
> marty


How much success did your 2 week hunt in MO produce?

I also think you talk out of your can about KS hunting.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

A thousand dollars I shoot a 150+ by November 1, 2010.
On public ground no more than 50 miles from downtown KCMO.
Hows that for talkin out my butt.

I passed some 140+ while hunting a specific B&C buck in Missouri in November.
Shot a doe though.

marty


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

zap said:


> A thousand dollars I shoot a 150+ by November 1, 2010.
> On public ground no more than 50 miles from downtown KCMO.
> Hows that for talkin out my butt.
> 
> ...


I would suggest just trying to harvest a buck with your bow first.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

You are either an N/R hater, or havent had success bowhunting public land here.
I have shot a dozen bucks and does with my bow, in the last two seasons.
Just no bucks on Kansas public land.
But I will fix that this fall. Maybe.
Definately if it gets me a grand from you.
So I guess you dont want to make a wager on that.

marty


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

*Thank you*

All, 

I appreciate your input and insights. Let me respond to a few things. First and formost, my friend has bowhunted for over 35 years and I have bowhunted for over 25 years. We have many seasons between us and we are not afraid to stray away from the truck. We knew that this was not going to be an easy endeavor, but we were looking forward to the adventure and challenge of it. We spent much of our time scouting and walking. When we did hunt, we saw several small bucks, but didn't see any big deer from our stands. We went with realistic expectations of a P&Y class buck, and we did see a few when we were riding around. However, with all the pressure and the relative small size of the woods that we were hunting, it was easy to see that the bigger bucks were either nocturnal or staying in the next draw over from us which was private ground. I've hunted Pennsylvania and West Virginia public land all my life and I never saw the amount of hunting pressure like we saw in eastern Kansas. As far as obtaining permission, we spent one day driving around and asking farmers. Everything was leased and therefore we couldn't get permission. And most of our pressure was coming from NR hunters. If I were a Kansas resident and my state ruined it by giving out far too many NR tags like they do, I'd be irate. I met a KS resident gentleman and he told me how upset he was with how many tags were issued. I appologized to him for even being there. I truly felt bad for him. The problem was, with 90% of the people being NR, everyone was a die hard hunter like we are. So, there was no proverbial stone unturned. If you hunted close to the road, you saw people, if you hunted a mile or two from the truck, you saw people. And this issue does stem back to all the publicity that KS (and the Midwest) gets from these hunting shows. In fact, it makes me sick that these big celebs go on tv and say how they are "ambassadors" for hunting. REALLY? Now, everyone leases ground because of all the publicity. I'm not saying that you can't obtain permission, but it is all but impossible in some areas. And I don't blame the farmers one bit. If someone is willing to spend ungodly amounts of money to hunt a deer, good for them. The one thing that I did realize from this trip is what we have here in the east as far as public land. And by no means am I sour grapes. We really did enjoy ourselves by seeing a diffrent part of the country and meeting some really nice people. I don't go out every time expecting a kill. It was just disheartening to see how truly difficult it is for the average joe to obtain permission to hunt. If they limited the NR tags, the experience would be much better for all, but at $500 a pop, it's easy to see why they don't.


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## breakaleg (Feb 9, 2005)

well said alphawolf


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

That is well said, but is this the small woods you hunted?

The 9,352 acre Fall River Wildlife Area was made available to the Kansas Forestry Fish and Game Commission under terms of a license with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in 1964. 

10.000 acres = small woods?
Nocturnal bucks that stay in one spot during the rut?

Sorry but that just doesnt sound right to me.
Kansas deer hunting is hardly ruined.
Gun season in december and only one buck bag limit.
The three adjoining states known for deer hunting have 2 bucks bag limit, gun season during the rut, and less expensive OTC tags. Well one state actually has three bucks bag limit.

I dont want to argue, but your statements dont make sense.


marty


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

*Yes small woods*

Zap,

When you look at that Fall River area, that 9000+ acres is very deceiving. If I remember, over 2000+ is water (the lake and river), and a lot of the other acreage is crop land. Now I am not saying that there wasn't a place to hang a stand. However, when you look at all the guys you are trying to cram into a relatively small area, it's tough to get away from guys. And I do think we mistimed our hunt a bit. We hunted the 1st 2 weeks in Nov. I would have preferred the 2 weeks before Thanksgiving. But that is a moot point considering you're cramming all these people into essentially a long strip of woods less than 100 yards wide. Rut or no rut, if you run the does off, the bucks will follow. And again, I'm not saying that a nice buck could not have been shot or wasn't shot while we were there. When I talk to a biologist and he tells me that I may see a "few" guys and that the "pressure is nothing like you see in the east". All I can say is that he's never been to the east. I can go to areas in PA and WV bowhunting and never see another guy all season. There were plently of deer. I was seeking solitude as much as I was seeking a decent buck.


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Zap,

I checked back on the KDWP website and actual huntable ground was about 2,300 acres for Fall River. I'm just saying that the odds weren't with us. Considering we were out of state and had never been to the area, the last thing we needed was to deal with a crowd. Let me ask you this, would you like your odds better where every 100 yards or so you see a tree stand, a guy, or a sign that someone was recently hunting? Or do you think you'd do better in a spot that hasn't been disturbed all season? There were plently of deer in KS. And bigger ones than I'd ever hope to kill in my neck of the woods. There's no doubt that KS holds some tremendous bucks and has some beautiful country. I'm in no way trying to bash your state. I'm just saying that the public land was over run and tags should be limited. I'd rather wait 2 or 3 years for a quality hunt than be guaranteed a tag every year and fight the crowds. I'd be afraid to go back in that area in gun season. I talked to another local guy who told us that he and another local "race" to their parking spot every morning because they both knew a few big bucks were in the area. Who wants to fight that? I bet Lee and Tiffanty, the Drurys and Stan Potts don't have to deal with that. I guess it's all just personal preference and I was under the impression that Kansas was a little more vast that what it actually is, considering the relatively small timbered area and relatively small amount of public ground. Shame on me.


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## hntnksn (Jan 18, 2008)

JWaltrip said:


> I would suggest just trying to harvest a buck with your bow first.


well said J. 

a little deer poop and a few small rubs don't always equal a 150+ buck.

i think someone is watching way too many DVD's and reading too many magazines.


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## outdooraholic (Apr 15, 2008)

mr. alphawolf.....i couldnt agree with you more. well said!


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## kda082 (Nov 27, 2006)

Killing nice bucks on KS public land is doable, but it aint easy. I'm a resident and hunt public in NE part of the state and i hate hunting the rut. Is it the best time of year to see a big one? Yes. It' also the time when bow hunters are everywhere. It gets worse during rifle. If you're looking for an adventure with the possibility of shooting a big one then a KS DYI hunt is probably for you. If you're looking for a slam dunk hunt, better save $ and find a good outfitter.


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## crockett (Apr 6, 2008)

zap said:


> Sorry but that just doesnt sound right to me.
> Kansas deer hunting is hardly ruined.
> Gun season in december and only one buck bag limit.
> The three adjoining states known for deer hunting have 2 bucks bag limit, gun season during the rut, and less expensive OTC tags. Well one state actually has three bucks bag limit.
> ...


what marty said sounds right too me! 
i will let you in on a secret, if you can learn how too hunt kansas you will have a much better time next trip!
forget the "i got to be in the timber mentality"
the crp is where it's @!
there is a lot of it out there public and wiha!
bird hunters can be your best friend (everytime i here bowhunters mad @the birdhunters i laugh) and have put me on more big bucks then most outfitters could!
you need to learn too know what too look for and then you will be a seasoned kansas bowhunters.
i would tell you more but i don't want too start seeing any hunters other then the ones that drive by and think i must be bird hunting!lol


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

alphawolf said:


> Zap,
> 
> When you look at that Fall River area, that 9000+ acres is very deceiving. If I remember, over 2000+ is water (the lake and river), and a lot of the other acreage is crop land. Now I am not saying that there wasn't a place to hang a stand. However, when you look at all the guys you are trying to cram into a relatively small area, it's tough to get away from guys. And I do think we mistimed our hunt a bit. We hunted the 1st 2 weeks in Nov. I would have preferred the 2 weeks before Thanksgiving. But that is a moot point considering you're cramming all these people into essentially a long strip of woods less than 100 yards wide. Rut or no rut, if you run the does off, the bucks will follow. And again, I'm not saying that a nice buck could not have been shot or wasn't shot while we were there. When I talk to a biologist and he tells me that I may see a "few" guys and that the "pressure is nothing like you see in the east". All I can say is that he's never been to the east. I can go to areas in PA and WV bowhunting and never see another guy all season. There were plently of deer. I was seeking solitude as much as I was seeking a decent buck.





alphawolf said:


> Zap,
> 
> I checked back on the KDWP website and actual huntable ground was about 2,300 acres for Fall River. I'm just saying that the odds weren't with us. Considering we were out of state and had never been to the area, the last thing we needed was to deal with a crowd. Let me ask you this, would you like your odds better where every 100 yards or so you see a tree stand, a guy, or a sign that someone was recently hunting? Or do you think you'd do better in a spot that hasn't been disturbed all season? There were plently of deer in KS. And bigger ones than I'd ever hope to kill in my neck of the woods. There's no doubt that KS holds some tremendous bucks and has some beautiful country. I'm in no way trying to bash your state. I'm just saying that the public land was over run and tags should be limited. I'd rather wait 2 or 3 years for a quality hunt than be guaranteed a tag every year and fight the crowds. I'd be afraid to go back in that area in gun season. I talked to another local guy who told us that he and another local "race" to their parking spot every morning because they both knew a few big bucks were in the area. Who wants to fight that? I bet Lee and Tiffanty, the Drurys and Stan Potts don't have to deal with that. I guess it's all just personal preference and I was under the impression that Kansas was a little more vast that what it actually is, considering the relatively small timbered area and relatively small amount of public ground. Shame on me.


I have never hunted Fall River, but if it is only a "100 yards wide strip of timber with a treestand every 100 yards". Why not go to another area.
Kansas tags are good for two units, I would think that somewhere in those units there is a good public hunting spot. But if you choose to go home a week early, you are not going to find them.
I know from my own experiance that it is possible.
I am tired of hearing that N/R's are ruining the deer hunting here.

Missouri has a three buck limit and OTC tags.
Nebraska has a two buck limit and OTC tags, same for Oklahoma.
ALL HAVE A RUT GUN SEASON.

KANSAS HAS ONE BUCK AND A MID DECEMBER GUN SEASON.
Hardly ruined.

marty


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

hntnksn said:


> well said J.
> 
> a little deer poop and a few small rubs don't always equal a 150+ buck.
> 
> i think someone is watching way too many DVD's and reading too many magazines.


This is the second time you have made the remark "that I read too much".
I know nothing about you, but you must know something about me.
What I have seen about you on here is a thread about you hunting turkeys under a feeder. Out of a blind. I would imagine it was on private ground. That was called a great success.
Yet you want to try to belittle me because I enjoy putting time in the public areas so I can learn more about how to hunt whitetail deer in those areas. 
You hunt how you want and I will hunt how I want.
I would appreciate it if you limited your comments about my scouting methods to something constructive, and not worry about what I read or watch. 

marty


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## bigracklover (Feb 1, 2008)

crockett said:


> forget the "i got to be in the timber mentality"
> the crp is where it's @!


Oh so true. A buddy of mine was up in Kansas a few years ago talking to a local farmer. He pointed to a good spot and saw my buddy's confused expression as they looked out over a CRP field, the ol' timer said "you may need trees, but the deer don't" :shade: The hunter took his advice and arrowed a mature buck from a ground blind a few days later.


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Zap,

I agree with you that there are other hunting methods besides hunting the timber. I definitely went to KS with that in mind. And we are not the type of hunters to give up easily. The only reason we left early was because we had tags for other states and my friend shot a buck in Ohio and I shot one in PA during that week. With vacation time being limited, we went with our best odds. We had tags for Units 12 and 14. We also checked out several other wildlife areas and the WIHAs in both units. When we didn't see anyone else hunting, we didn't find much in the way of deer sign either. Hunting big bucks is not an easy thing for sure, even when you are on prime land. And can it be done on KS public land? Absolutely! I found some dandy buck sign in the Fall River area. But along with it came the pressure. I'm just saying that the areas in general were over pressured and it is an extremely tough task for a non resident who has limited time to do well. If you live there, you would be able to find those little out of the way places. It's the same way around here. I bet if I put you in one of our pressured public areas, you would go home with the same impression I did, because you don't have the advantage of living here and knowing the little soft spots in between pressure.


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## keb (Jul 17, 2007)

I hunted public land one hour from KC in Kansas for 9 days, saw no one. Killed a nice buck.

Tip#1 do what everbody else is doing get what they get.

Tip#2 do not buy into the mind games, it will ruin your hunt before it starts.

Tip#3 hunt your A$% off till you are out of time.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

zap said:


> This is the second time you have made the remark "that I read too much".
> I know nothing about you, but you must know something about me.
> What I have seen about you on here is a thread about you hunting turkeys under a feeder. Out of a blind. I would imagine it was on private ground. That was called a great success.
> Yet you want to try to belittle me because I enjoy putting time in the public areas so I can learn more about how to hunt whitetail deer in those areas.
> ...


My sentiments exactly! I would like to be "a fly on the wall" on a hunt with one of these guys that keeps saying "it's not worth it" and "you're wasting your time" to hunt KS public land. Why do they assume that they've already done the hunt the correct way and had no success only to determine afterward that "it simply can't be done, because I couldn't do it." That's completely asinine and arrogant at the same time.



bigracklover said:


> Oh so true. A buddy of mine was up in Kansas a few years ago talking to a local farmer. He pointed to a good spot and saw my buddy's confused expression as they looked out over a CRP field, the ol' timer said "you may need trees, but the deer don't" :shade: The hunter took his advice and arrowed a mature buck from a ground blind a few days later.


That's what I'm talking about! :smile: I've hunted public ground a lot, and my opinion is this, if you're running into a bunch of hunters and can't find seclusion, you're in the wrong spot. When the hunting pressure is on, the deer don't care whether a spot looks "deery" or not. Heck, they might not ever even venture into certain areas UNTIL hunting pressure increases which can put big bucks in the most unassuming spots. 



keb said:


> I hunted public land one hour from KC in Kansas for 9 days, saw no one. Killed a nice buck.
> 
> Tip#1 do what everbody else is doing get what they get.
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head! Great advice! All this "can't" and "don't bother" is annoying. Elaborate for us!


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

alphawolf said:


> Zap,
> 
> I agree with you that there are other hunting methods besides hunting the timber. I definitely went to KS with that in mind. And we are not the type of hunters to give up easily. The only reason we left early was because we had tags for other states and my friend shot a buck in Ohio and I shot one in PA during that week. With vacation time being limited, we went with our best odds. We had tags for Units 12 and 14. We also checked out several other wildlife areas and the WIHAs in both units. When we didn't see anyone else hunting, we didn't find much in the way of deer sign either. Hunting big bucks is not an easy thing for sure, even when you are on prime land. And can it be done on KS public land? Absolutely! I found some dandy buck sign in the Fall River area. But along with it came the pressure. I'm just saying that the areas in general were over pressured and it is an extremely tough task for a non resident who has limited time to do well. If you live there, you would be able to find those little out of the way places. It's the same way around here. I bet if I put you in one of our pressured public areas, you would go home with the same impression I did, because you don't have the advantage of living here and knowing the little soft spots in between pressure.


If thats an invatation I can swing a 10 days this fall to hunt in your neck of the woods.:teeth:
I like the challange of hunting a place I have never been before.

Everyone is entilted to hunt as they want, within the law. Everyone is also entiteled to their own opinion.
BUT.
I can guarantee you that I would not leave early after paying $500.00 for a tag and the gas to get there, and then get on here and say how its impossible to hunt there.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

keb said:


> I hunted public land one hour from KC in Kansas for 9 days, saw no one. Killed a nice buck.
> 
> Tip#1 do what everbody else is doing get what they get.
> 
> ...


:teeth:

marty


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Look guys, I'm not whining or complaining that I didn't kill a buck. I really did have a nice time in KS. I'm morely stating that I was misled by the several KS biologists that I spoke with as far as hunting pressure. If I wanted to hunt amongst other guys, I could have hunted a few hours from home and not driven 18 hours. I didn't expect to have the whole area to myself either, but I didn't expect to run into what I did. And I'm not saying I wouldn't try again either or that it is impossible. I've hunted public land all my life and I know what comes with the territory. It could be boom or bust at times. And some areas are better than others. To say that there isn't a piece of public land in KS that isn't worth hunting is stupid. If that is what everyone interpreted my comments as, that is not what I meant. I didn't say that at all. So to say that I am assinine or arrogant is out of line. There's no doubt that there is an adjustment from hunting the big woods of the east to the river bottoms in KS. I didn't go in thinking it was going to be a walk in the park. I believe that in Units 12 and 14, because of the limited public land, pressure is heavier than what I anticipated. We ran into another NR hunter in Fall River that was experiencing the same issues we were experiencing. He hunted the Tuttle Creek area last year and said while he ran into some pressure there, the area was more conducive to get away from pressure and he killed a decent buck. He tried Fall River thinking he would get away from the pressure, but said he'd go back to the Tuttle Creek area. I just think we focused on the wrong area. I'm glad that many of you have thrown in your 2 cents. It really has given me a better perspective as to where to focus my efforts and how to tweak my hunting techniques next time. Keep the comments coming!


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## herTHINGarchery (Oct 12, 2009)

Being a local kansas hunter all I can say is that the pressure is rediculous and any land that me or my family owns we dont allow others to hunt it due to all the pressure. Everything is taken/leased/or full. I may suggest that going with an outfitter might be your best luck here because if its walk-in its prolly full of hunters. If its local there are prolly several hunters already hunting it as well. We do hunt some land we dont own and we have to call the land owner every time we want to hunt it and make sure its not occupied. Kinda a pain when you want to hunt the wind. I would def suggest an outfitter. Good luck...sorry to say you've def got an advantage in Kansas when you own the land you hunt because pressure is rediculous!


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## herTHINGarchery (Oct 12, 2009)

alphawolf said:


> Look guys, I'm not whining or complaining that I didn't kill a buck. I really did have a nice time in KS. I'm morely stating that I was misled by the several KS biologists that I spoke with as far as hunting pressure. If I wanted to hunt amongst other guys, I could have hunted a few hours from home and not driven 18 hours. I didn't expect to have the whole area to myself either, but I didn't expect to run into what I did. And I'm not saying I wouldn't try again either or that it is impossible. I've hunted public land all my life and I know what comes with the territory. It could be boom or bust at times. And some areas are better than others. To say that there isn't a piece of public land in KS that isn't worth hunting is stupid. If that is what everyone interpreted my comments as, that is not what I meant. I didn't say that at all. So to say that I am assinine or arrogant is out of line. There's no doubt that there is an adjustment from hunting the big woods of the east to the river bottoms in KS. I didn't go in thinking it was going to be a walk in the park. I believe that in Units 12 and 14, because of the limited public land, pressure is heavier than what I anticipated. We ran into another NR hunter in Fall River that was experiencing the same issues we were experiencing. He hunted the Tuttle Creek area last year and said while he ran into some pressure there, the area was more conducive to get away from pressure and he killed a decent buck. He tried Fall River thinking he would get away from the pressure, but said he'd go back to the Tuttle Creek area. I just think we focused on the wrong area. I'm glad that many of you have thrown in your 2 cents. It really has given me a better perspective as to where to focus my efforts and how to tweak my hunting techniques next time. Keep the comments coming!


scout your areas really good in the off season...then hunt them when its not likely to be overcrouded....


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

This link provides a link to the 2009 reg book.
Conservation officrs are listed by county of responsability, their phone #'s are provided.
I would think they could provide better info then a biologist.

http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations

marty


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Thanks for the info Zap.


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## Oncombat09 (Sep 10, 2009)

Not to hijack, but I'll be in Kansas later this year. I couldn't care less what all you nay sayers think. Marty, care to devulge some tips for hunting walk in area out west? maybe pm me
-Matt


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

HerTHINGarchery,

I agree that probably the best way to go would be with an outfitter, but that brings another set of challenges, as far as finding a reputable one. I always liked the thought of the DIY type hunts and the satisfaction of the accomplishment. 

Matt, 

Give Fall River Wildlife Area a try in eastern KS (Unit 12) and let me know what you think. I heard that there isn't much hunting pressure there.  All joking aside, I think you'd be better off in western KS in the WIHAs. You have way more options. We were considering it when we planned, but we decided on eastern KS because of the higher deer densities and more wooded areas. Looking back, that may have been our mistake. One evening when we were returning to our hotel, we ran into a guy at a gas station that had a 140+ buck in the back of his truck. He was from eastern KS, but was hunting western KS in the WIHAs. He showed me a cell phone pic that had him, his dad and brother all with 140-160 class deer that they all shot within 2 days. He told me that he hunted western KS because he couldn't afford the lease prices in the east and that he felt that the KDWP gave out too many tags in the east, which caused the problems on public land. He seemed like a knowledgeable guy and a straight shooter. I hope it works out for you. Good luck and post the pics if you get one!


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## hntnksn (Jan 18, 2008)

zap said:


> This is the second time you have made the remark "that I read too much".
> I know nothing about you, but you must know something about me.
> What I have seen about you on here is a thread about you hunting turkeys under a feeder. Out of a blind. I would imagine it was on private ground. That was called a great success.
> Yet you want to try to belittle me because I enjoy putting time in the public areas so I can learn more about how to hunt whitetail deer in those areas.
> ...


well not sure where to start.

1. 90% of my personal hunting is on public land. and yes i have a 168" buck and a 154" buck and 7 other P&Y bucks. so i'm pretty sure i KNOW how to hunt kansas public land.

2. i could care less how you hunt. but the proof is in the pudding. and i haven't seen much pudding. :noidea:

3. did i mention i took a co-worker and put him on a 216" public land GIANT?

4. you can ask the OP. but i sent him a PM offering advice on some awesome public land IF HE WANTED IT.

5. yeah my turkey hunting must suck. 18 birds last year all with archery equipt.


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## tlzimmerman (Apr 21, 2008)

WIHA out west sure is a tough prospect. I hunt all family land out in Gove and Sheridan counties, most of the WIHA is pretty barren to be honest. Some is ok for bird hunting, and there is some good crp for holding bucks, but depending on how far west you are alot of what you will find in WIHA is mule deer.

You are going to fight two things doing WIHA......if the corn and milo are still in the fields early season, anything of size is really really nocturnal and live in those fields, which is impossible to hunt. Then once you get into pheasant saeason, any good crp cover out here in WIHA is covered and walked daily by pheasant hunters, maybe even several times a day. 

My advice is spend the first day and first 2 talks of gas taking in the wiha in your units after the fall harvest is out of the fields....find winter wheat and alfalfa if you can, and find a water source, and find WIHA between the two with some type of draw or cover you can set up on. Then split up the first night one hunter to a spot and overlook, see if there are deer moving and try to find their pinch points coming from bedding areas which are probably not on the WIHA (possibly nearby timber or a deep draw on the end of wiha, anywhere they can bed). Then play the wind, setup a blind middle of the afternoon off a trail where you saw the deer, brush it in and pray, alot of times out here the deer have worn down the trails they use in non rut times. 

I have no problems with out of state hunters as long as they follow the dang rules, always ask for permission and respect the answer. Every year come bird season or rifle season I have to chase out of state hunters off our land 3 or 4 times, its really disheartening especially because all of its posted well, heck a had a set of bowhunters park by my freaking no hunting sign this year, and i had to get out of my stand and walk across to chase them off.......makes me a happy guy.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

hntnksn said:


> well not sure where to start.
> 
> 1. 90% of my personal hunting is on public land. and yes i have a 168" buck and a 154" buck and 7 other P&Y bucks. so i'm pretty sure i KNOW how to hunt kansas public land.
> 
> ...


That's all fine, but doesn't explain your need to put down how I choose to scout.

When I saw its probable to shoot a buck over 140 on public land you have smart answers, but you state a "216 public land giant". Also state 9 P&Y public land deer you have taken.
I guess there are only good deer on Kansas public land if you say so.
When I say so its "small rubs and deer poop does not mean anything".

I have done much better than most my first two seasons of bow hunting.
The two seasons before that I started deer hunting for the first time and did quite well with my 30-30 and muzzle loader.
Four seasons = 4 antlered bucks taken. Two 130's, one 140 and one 186.
Numerous does and a 3 yr old shed buck.
I was raised in the city and learned on my own to deer hunt, as I continue to learn more each time I go in the field.
I will probably never be as good of a hunter as you are, but maybe that's not my goal.:teeth:

marty


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

Non-resident archery kills in Kansas on public areas 2006 and 2007. I have a couple of bigger ones than these two that came off private ground in 2003 and 2004.

First off let me start by saying I am from SW Missouri and I am used to hunting big sections of timber. So my first few years of hunting Kansas I had to learn to forget everything I thought I knew about hunting deer. In fact the first few trips were in Oct and it was one of those years that the corn didn't get harvested until late. So after making several 6 hour trips to the center of the state in Oct. I was beginning to think there wasn't any deer in Kansas. Then the crops got cut and the rut hit and I will be hooked the rest of my life. 
I spend between 20 - 30 days out there every year. The sad thing is I live on 40 acres here in Missouri and have hunted in Missouri maybe a dozen times over the last 6 - 7 years.
I tried to hunt some of the conservation/lake areas the first few years but it wasn't that great and there were other hunters. It didn't take me long to figure out you can have some great hunting on 80 acres of WIHA that most people won't drive to because it's not 3000 acres of conservation area. 
So those little tracks of WIHA that don't look like much, are over looked to say the least. I used to think it was a negative having areas that didn't have much timber other than a fence row or some trees along the bank of a dry creek. Now I look at that and go "wow that made my scouting easier". Less places to hide and travel makes it easier for me to find a spot to hunt. Little patches of trees, wooded fence rows, wooded dry creek branches are awesome. 
I will also tell you that this past year was a very weird year for most people who hunted Kansas. The crops stayed on way too long and that makes for some very hard hunting unless you are on some really good ground with no pressure. It was my worst year ever. 
So don't give up on getting a good buck in Kansas on public land. Just make sure you don't over look all the WIHA they have and don't forget to be mobile. Some of the units have enough WIHA you could hunt a different one every day of the season and not get to everyone in 3 - 4 years of hunting. You might think about coming out for turkey season as well. Runs almost 2 months and makes a great trip to do some preseason scouting.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

I love the tall racked buck, but they are both nice.:teeth:

marty


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## lastcast33 (Mar 8, 2008)

hntnksn said:


> well not sure where to start.
> 
> 1. 90% of my personal hunting is on public land. and yes i have a 168" buck and a 154" buck and 7 other P&Y bucks. so i'm pretty sure i KNOW how to hunt kansas public land.
> 
> ...


 Don't mess with Zap. There's John Wayne, Neil Armstrong, and now Marty after his legendary hunt. Just sayin, pick your battles wisely.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Those are some nice bucks right there!! 

Thanks Bowfreak!


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## Virginian (Oct 8, 2009)

lastcast33 said:


> Don't mess with Zap. There's John Wayne, Neil Armstrong, and now Marty after his legendary hunt. Just sayin, pick your battles wisely.


+1 You're barking up the wrong tree...


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Bowfreak,

Those are some nice bucks for sure, especially like the tall tined stud. Congratulations on your success! I appreciate your comments as well. They were the most helpful by far. When we chose our hunting area, we were looking at the largest wildlife areas thinking that would be our best chance to get away from pressure if there was any. Looking back, that definitely was our biggest mistake. However, we weren't closed minded to the WIHA's, but the problem was in Units 12 and 14, there just weren't that many. There aren't that many WIHAs until you get more towards the central part of the state, which was out of our units. The few that were in our units weren't much at all. Let me ask you this, though. When you get into these smaller, dried up creek/fenceline areas, are you finding much big buck sign? I would assume when the rut is on, it wouldn't matter and that it would be more of a matter of hanging in there long enough to catch a buck cruising and using these funnel/bottleneck areas.


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## hoyt1373 (Jan 9, 2010)

alphawolf next time you come to Kansas look me up. I know several WIHA that get very little pressure, but hold some very nice deer. Everywhere in my area really doesn't get much pressure until the 1st. of Nov. Then you have people go in before light or just after, then within two hours they are walking out. That will mess with the deer for sure. I prefer to hunt private ground for scent reasons but will help you out.


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Thanks hoyt1373. I'm not sure if we are coming back this fall or not. I will definitely keep you in mind. You are in Unit 11, correct?


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

alphawolf said:


> And this issue does stem back to all the publicity that KS (and the Midwest) gets from these hunting shows. In fact, it makes me sick that these big celebs go on tv and say how they are "ambassadors" for hunting. REALLY? Now, everyone leases ground because of all the publicity.


I find it humerous that on one hand you are using tv as a scapegoat for ruining hunting, making you "sick". On the other hand, you are one of the masses invading KS from other states helping push the leasing trend. If you are that "sick" over it, do your part to remedy the situation and stay home. That sums it up, doesn't it? 

Every state has locals that are blaming NR's and tv for ruining "their" hunting. Get over it folks, times are changing. Hunters are getting more serious and travel more. It's not because of tv, it's because hunters want to hunt more places, and places that up the odds for a good deer...just like you alphawolf. Big antlers grace cave wall paintings. Man has been fascinated by them for a long, long time.

MO has been a turkey destination for tons of NR hunters for years. You can see every US state license plate if you look around. It's been that way since way before tv hunting became common. I guess I blame our turkey hunting getting "ruined" on a.m. radio outdoors shows.


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

JWaltrip said:


> How much success did your 2 week hunt in MO produce?
> 
> I also think you talk out of your can about KS hunting.


LOL...put your money where your typing is! It's always funny how guys like you type up a storm until someone wants to put some real life proof into the situation. C'mon...it's an easy $1000 for you, right?



zap said:


> A thousand dollars I shoot a 150+ by November 1, 2010.
> On public ground no more than 50 miles from downtown KCMO.
> Hows that for talkin out my butt.
> 
> marty


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## Bowhunter110 (Nov 13, 2009)

backstrap steve said:


> Not all of us r d/ck$ some of us don't mind. Its when they venture off the public hunting ground to tresspass on my private ground I get pissed. Study hard for land. You might be better of in south central kansas. Close to oklahoma. There are some studs down there. Hell kansas could use all the extra revenue we can get. All we ask is please follow the rules!


There is zero decent public land down here. And that is no lie.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Total # of deer permits issued in Kansas

Harvest #'s to the right.
2008-164,000--------80,000
2007-160,000--------74,000
2006-157,000--------79,000
2005-151,000--------75,000
2004-156,000--------77,000
2003-157,000--------71,000
2002-174,000--------83,000
2001-194,000--------102,000
2000-195,000--------111,000
1999-161,000--------101,000
1998-135,000--------81,000
1997-111,000--------63,000
1996-97,000---------52,000

Same # of deer harvested 10 yeas ago a last year. Approx. 30,000 more deer tags issued in 2000, and 2001 then last season (2008).
The increase in success rate last season was due to allowing N/R to pick their season/weapon. 
When you allow for the lack of transferable landowner tags the # of N/R tags does not really go up very much. Less than 5%.


marty


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## HoytTF (Nov 20, 2007)

zap said:


> Total # of deer permits issued in Kansas
> 
> Harvest #'s to the right.
> 2008-164,000--------80,000
> ...


I want to know how KS determines this? I hunt there every year and there are no check stations. Here in AR we always had check stations but now just telecheck or you can check online. How does KS come up with the number of deer killed? Seems to me like it is just a guess that someone comes up with. By the way Marty, this is not an attack on you, just a question!


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

They use a voluntary survey. :mg:

I put the harvest #'s because they were on the info I recieved from KDWP this morning. I doubt the accuracy of the #'s. The main point of the post was the # of tags sold.

They are working on a mandatory pic check system, it will be volantuary for a few years while they work out the bugs.

I did not feel attacked, but I appreciate your curtosey.:teeth:


marty


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## hoyt1373 (Jan 9, 2010)

alphawolf said:


> Thanks hoyt1373. I'm not sure if we are coming back this fall or not. I will definitely keep you in mind. You are in Unit 11, correct?


Ya I'm in unit 11.lots of deer


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

[email protected],

So you are saying that it is just a mere coincidence in the past 10-15 years since all these hunting shows have gained popularity, that leasing became popular and prices are through the roof? It's the masses who watch these guys that are ruining their own sport. What a joke. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the people that have these shows didn't work hard to get where they are. They truly do. They are more committed to their sport than most. But hunting is becoming an elitist sport. All the prime land will be leased or owned by a select few and the rest of the general hunting public is left with the scraps. You are right, times are changing and for the worse. All because of man's fascination with big antlers, hunting in America will become what it is in England; a rich man's sport. And yes, what brought me to KS was the publicity and hype. I absolutely was part of it. I truly sympathize with the average Joe in the midwest. Big antlers have ruined their sport. And it is starting to happen in PA with the antler restrictions. It's getting harder and harder to obtain permission because people are leasing all the land because we are seeing a few more big bucks. Say what you want, but this greed is killing hunting and it is perpetuated by all these TV shows. I don't think you realize how influential these TV shows actually are. Most new people to the sport use these shows as a point of reference, so these shows are creating the future. Every experience for me is a learning experience and that is what I learned from my trip to KS. And I took it as a positive. I'm not saying I would't return, but I am saying that I was nieve. The next time, I will be much better off having that experience under my belt for sure.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

alphawolf said:


> [email protected],
> 
> So you are saying that it is just a mere coincidence in the past 10-15 years since all these hunting shows have gained popularity, that leasing became popular and prices are through the roof? It's the masses who watch these guys that are ruining their own sport. What a joke. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the people that have these shows didn't work hard to get where they are. They truly do. They are more committed to their sport than most. But hunting is becoming an elitist sport. All the prime land will be leased or owned by a select few and the rest of the general hunting public is left with the scraps. You are right, times are changing and for the worse. All because of man's fascination with big antlers, hunting in America will become what it is in England; a rich man's sport. And yes, what brought me to KS was the publicity and hype. I absolutely was part of it. I truly sympathize with the average Joe in the midwest. Big antlers have ruined their sport. And it is starting to happen in PA with the antler restrictions. It's getting harder and harder to obtain permission because people are leasing all the land because we are seeing a few more big bucks. Say what you want, but this greed is killing hunting and it is perpetuated by all these TV shows. I don't think you realize how influential these TV shows actually are. Most new people to the sport use these shows as a point of reference, so these shows are creating the future. Every experience for me is a learning experience and that is what I learned from my trip to KS. And I took it as a positive. I'm not saying I would't return, but I am saying that I was nieve. The next time, I will be much better off having that experience under my belt for sure.


If all you have to eat is scraps, its best to learn how to cook em.
Peace, Alphawolf and have a good off season.:teeth:

marty


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Zap,

The logical preference here is to eat prime rib. You have a good off season too. Good luck and thanks for the comments.


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## Bowhunter110 (Nov 13, 2009)

ok ok let's just get to the point here. there are no big bucks left in Kansas.

anyone, having done their homework and scouting, can kill a KS buck on a tract of public land. maybe not in my area of the state, but the land is in the state in other units. personally, I'm not gonna mess with the pressure and other people. ill hunt where I know ill be the only one there.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Well, good for you.


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Bowhunter110,

That's not what I'm trying to say. There are plenty of big bucks all over KS and living in those overpressured areas. No doubt about it. I think that is what the majority on here thinks I'm saying.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

Bowhunter110 said:


> ok ok let's just get to the point here. there are no big bucks left in Kansas.
> 
> anyone, having done their homework and scouting, can kill a KS buck on a tract of public land. maybe not in my area of the state, but the land is in the state in other units. personally, I'm not gonna mess with the pressure and other people. ill hunt where I know ill be the only one there.


If you put the time in to find the out of the way spots, you deserve em.
Good hunting.:teeth:

marty


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

alphawolf said:


> Bowfreak,
> 
> Let me ask you this, though. When you get into these smaller, dried up creek/fenceline areas, are you finding much big buck sign? I would assume when the rut is on, it wouldn't matter and that it would be more of a matter of hanging in there long enough to catch a buck cruising and using these funnel/bottleneck areas.


This is where I will differ than most hunters. Since I live about 6 hours from the areas I like to hunt, I don't have time to spend after work or the weekends driving around and or scouting for bucks or a particular buck. When I come out there it's hunting season and I am looking for does because the bucks will come to the does, not the does going to the bucks. So not seeing a lot of buck sign doesn't worry me as much as it worries some people. I am not saying I don't like to see it in my area and don't get excited when I see a rub the size of my thigh. As long as I am seeing does when the first stages of the rut kick in I am content. 

Another reason we look for those skinny tract of timber/fence lines. It just condenses the deer down so we have to spend less time deciding where to hunt a particular area. Too many people end up in some of the bigger timber areas and second guess every place they start to hang a stand and hunt. And I would be the same way. When you are sitting a timbered fence row that's only 15 - 30 yards wide it makes things easier to decide. 

You are right about the 2 units you picked. Not a lot of WIHA to pick from. You might want to consider picking a couple different units. Before they limited us to 2 units we had done some late season hunting up in Washington and Marshall counties. They have a bazzillion acres of WIHA. Some of the other AT'ers from around there might be able to help you out with what kind of deer they have in that area.

Also there was someone that mentioned not being afraid of the pheasant hunters. I would agree. If you are in your stand before they come in to hunt they will end up moving more deer to you than you knew were in that area. And they will definitely push them out of the areas (CRP) that you can't get to bowhunting. 

My hunting partner and I have killed close to 10 bucks in Kansas between us and only 2 that I can think of are less than 120". I can also only think of one that wasn't killed between Nov. 14 - 21. With a bunch being the 16th - 18th. For us that's the magic time in our areas. So pick your dates wisely. Another trick is to pay attention to the rain fall and the harvest reports. If they have been getting a lot of rain they will be behind on harvest which makes hunting much harder. So you might adjust your trip dates on the fly at the last minute. 

Caulk the first year up as a learning experience and now you know what to expect and what to look for next year.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

More good advice. So, what units do you hunt primarily?


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## Bowfreak (Jul 23, 2002)

sirkle said:


> More good advice. So, what units do you hunt primarily?


4 and 5. We have access to some private land in that area, but with two guys hunting we don't want to burn an area out so we bounce from the private to the WIHA to keep things fresh. We used to hunt unit 11 as well, but since they have opened up the drawing more, we have seen some of the WIHA convert over to leases. Before you had a chance of not getting drawn so NR hunters were less likely to lease ground if they couldn't be guaranteed a tag. That and the fact your two units have to be adjacent now.

I will admit that the last couple of years we have seen more hunters than we used to, but I have a couple of theories on that.

1) Residents are given the chance to pick the any weapon tag. That tag is good for any weapon that is in season until they take a buck. In the past they had to pick muzzle loader, archery, or gun. So we are probably seeing more hunters during bow season because people who usually only gun hunted have the opportunity to bow hunt as well. And the same goes for gun season. All the resident bow hunters that haven't filled their buck tags can pick up a gun for gun season. 

2) In the past 1/2 of the allotted NR tags were guaranteed to go to residents who put in for the NR draw so they could sell them to NR and try to make a profit off the tag. There were a lot of outfitters that had landowners putting in for the NR tags so they could sell them to people coming in to hunt with that outfitter. This guaranteed the landowner would make money on the tag and if he was leasing land to the outfitter he made more money. This also guaranteed the outfitter would have tags for his/her clients. So I think that there are more average joes like you and me getting tags who can't afford to pay for an outfitter and are hitting public ground and WIHA.

I have spent and will continue to spend time studying the amount of tags they give out in particular units vs. the amount of public ground and WIHA available. We have spent several days just driving around looking at different WIHA. We actually keep our WIHA atlas from year to year and mark the good and bad WIHA for reference. And as soon as the new atlas comes out we know immediately if there is a new piece of ground that has been added in our area. If so that new piece is the first ground we look at on our first hunting trip of the year. We found a really good WIHA a few years back, the first year they put it in WIHA. We saw some bruisers on it the first couple of years. I took one of the deer in the photos off that land and my buddy shot a 150 class buck. The first couple of years no one else ever hunted it except us. By the third year other hunters started finding it and the last couple of years we have only hunted it a couple of days and didn't see hardly anything. 

What I am getting at is you can and need to do some homework that can be done sitting at home on the computer. Look at the tags given out vs. the amount of public and WIHA. Make sure to google it so you can look at a photo of the WIHA to make sure it has some structure on it and isn't a big field of nothing. Look at previous year WIHA atlas and try to find new areas that have just been added. Bow hunting only WIHA areas are a bonus. Pay attention the KWDP website for special draw hunts in your area. Don't get stuck in a rut about picking an area and not moving. We rarely hunt the same place two times in one trip. Pay attention to rain fall around crop harvest time and the harvest reports 

I am definitely not an expert and had to learn most of this twice. Once on how to hunt Missouri and then how not to hunt Kansas like Missouri.

Good luck to everyone next year.


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## Bowhunter110 (Nov 13, 2009)

alphawolf said:


> Bowhunter110,
> 
> That's not what I'm trying to say. There are plenty of big bucks all over KS and living in those overpressured areas. No doubt about it. I think that is what the majority on here thinks I'm saying.


first part was a joke by the way :wink: 

this thread is too serious!  maybe i can trick the non residents into not not not coming to Kansas! :devil:


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## t-roys (Oct 12, 2009)

Bowhunter110 said:


> first part was a joke by the way :wink:
> 
> this thread is too serious!  maybe i can trick the non residents into not not not coming to Kansas! :devil:


Yes, he's right. There are much bigger bucks in Oklahoma!


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Bowhunter110, 

I didn't mean to stir the pot with everyone. And you are right, I think this thread got a little serious. I guess that's what happens when you post a bit of a controversial subject amongst diehard bowhunters! Since there are no deer left in KS, I think I am going sell my bows and take up golf this year. :laugh::der:


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## sooner77 (Dec 23, 2009)

personally i think you should skip kansas and oklahoma..... all the big bucks are in texas


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## crockett (Apr 6, 2008)

everyone going to kansas please post your zone choice's so i can pick mine next month! :wink:


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## nogutsnostory (Aug 2, 2005)

Hunting shows pay Kansas a BIG dis-service. They would have NR's think there is a Booner behind every tree. Aint so. And the extra tags they handed out last year is not going to improve the situation.


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## sirkle (Nov 3, 2009)

Bowfreak said:


> 4 and 5. We have access to some private land in that area, but with two guys hunting we don't want to burn an area out so we bounce from the private to the WIHA to keep things fresh. We used to hunt unit 11 as well, but since they have opened up the drawing more, we have seen some of the WIHA convert over to leases. Before you had a chance of not getting drawn so NR hunters were less likely to lease ground if they couldn't be guaranteed a tag. That and the fact your two units have to be adjacent now.
> 
> I will admit that the last couple of years we have seen more hunters than we used to, but I have a couple of theories on that.
> 
> ...


Great honest info! Thanks again Bowfreak.


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## zmax hunter (Aug 21, 2006)

Wow,....its been quite a read to get caught up in this one. 

I start my hunting on day 1 of the season every year,

imo, there is nothing magical about November. I love the hot/buggy/green leaves/ tall uncut crops. Bucks are in their bachelor groups, unpressured, working the rubs/ scrapes. To me, it is* the* time to kill a mature buck. I do not hunt public but I never see anyone bowhunting the wiha in the early season around me. 

Quite simply, hunting is nothing like what it was 5, 10, 15, or 20 years ago and it continues to change, some parts for the better, some for the worse. I will never understand how anyone can get mad at someone for leasing the land that they were hunting for free. Seems to me they should have leased it themselves. 

Kansas continues to be one of the best whitetail states, public and/or private.

Yes, I have started a guide service, a mans got to make a living somehow, not to mention, the dollars the NR's will bring to my local community. I cant wait to see how the hunters do that i have booked for this coming season. The bucks *are* there, it's Kansas, anything can happen.

As for diy, I would do the research and hunt early, if I had 2 weeks, I would be running trail cams over bait on properties while i hunted another, go for that walk and find the funnel, the pinch point from bedding to food, its called hunting for a reason, of course most aerials will give this away.

Soy beans or milo in October, now thats magic! (or perhaps magnetic)

Best of Luck to you all this fall.


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## monmouthbucks (Nov 27, 2008)

I have been a NR DIY'er in KS for 3 years. We got lucky and got a private farm from a friend of a friend....BUT, it borders public land for about 1000-1500 yards on one side. FYI...in three years of hunting there I have yet to see one hunter on this public land. They seem to go where the walking is easy.

Year one 2007 AWESOME....crops down and when it was cold the deer were running. My buddy and I both got our biggest archery bucks that year. We saw maybe 3 other hunters/vehicles in 9 days during the first part on Nov.. I killed mine early so I had plenty of time to drive the back roads.... Wow what a change from NJ!

Year 2 2008- Windy rain etc....More trucks from TX- FL- SC NC etc....hunting was just OK. We passed a few smaller deer. One guy got about a 130.

year 3 2009 WARM, WET yuck! Even more trucks, bumped into more NR on the sides of roads.A few were disgusted....... Crops were ALL up, made hunting very difficult, very little rut sign or action. Cameras took pics of some nice ones in the middle of the night.
Saw a few 110-115 bucks killed. I passed one that was about 130 3 times!

I guess the bottom line is that, YES, pressure does make a difference but......I think the bigger factor is the weather, rain and standing crops.....The deer were there, just not in the daylight. IMHO

I have to add.....The people of KS are the nicest people that I have ever met. Anyone we met was always willing to go out of their way to help us, point us in the right direction etc 

I am 1 for 3 but I am going back!


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## alphawolf (Apr 25, 2009)

Monmouthbucks,

Thanks for your insight. I definitely agree with you that the weather, crop conditions etc. are a great influence on success. And when you combine those poor condtitions with heavy hunting pressure, then it makes things awfully difficult. But that's why it's hunting and that's part of the game. Being from NJ, I'm sure you encounter pressure quite a bit. I also agree with you that the people of KS were the nicest I met anywhere. They definitely wanted to help as much as possible. If I may ask, what part of KS were you hunting? I wonder if the pressure fluctuates from year to year in certain areas or if hunting pressure is on the rise everywhere in KS.


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## buckbowhunter1 (Sep 7, 2008)

This question is for Zap is that 186 buck the one hanging in B2 in Topeka?


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

buckbowhunter1 said:


> This question is for Zap is that 186 buck the one hanging in B2 in Topeka?


YUP. 










250 Lbs. dressed.

marty


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## buckbowhunter1 (Sep 7, 2008)

I knew i had seen that buck before that thing has some awesome mass.


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## zap (Mar 13, 2008)

buckbowhunter1 said:


> I knew i had seen that buck before that thing has some awesome mass.


Yup, it was a good one.
Thanks for the compliment on it. :smile:

marty


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## Hoyt1101 (May 13, 2015)

I would agree The Kansas whitetail population and trophy quality has gone down hill over the past several years. It must be all the tv shows basically telling everyone to go to Kansas if you want a giant. Don't get me wrong Kansas has quality deer but they are few and far between anymore. I'm going to start hunting Northern Missouri and possibly Nebraska.


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## bbruno (Jan 15, 2007)

Wow this was an old post was was brought back up!! 
What say you now? Post EHD? I would love to go back to the deer herd of 2010 (at least on the ground I hunt)

Summer of 2012 was a rough one for the deer thats for sure!


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