# Poundage and New Limbs for Outdoors? Anyone tried Kaya K2?



## PaulME (Jun 11, 2014)

Take all this with the usual grain of salt as Im a newbie as well.
Exactly how far do you plan to shoot?
I started with a wood takedown riiser last summer at 32#, got a SF forged + and axiom + 22# limbs and used those all winter. In talking to the club coach he reccomended 28# to start on outdoor and that should be OK to 50M at least to start (got a deal on a used set of Axiom + here). At that point I figure I'll go up by 4# increments (32# then 36#) I may just stop there depending on where I go with this. I don't plan on getting more expensive limbs for quite a while.
I'm adult male, the jump in poundage your talking about seems quite large and is what gets listed as the weights topped out for the ladies olympic, and there are plenty of cases of them shooting competitive scores at much lower weights. 

Paul


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Shanna:

Also a woman.

I shot 28# til it felt like I was shooting a noodle. Then I got 32# limbs. My budget allowed $300 so I got MK Korea Inpers. May as well have gotten a rocket launcher, that's how fast they are. Arrows that were WEAK on a 28# SF Axiom + tuned like no tomorrow on the heavier limbs.

Bear in mind I am shooting Oly recurve and I have more weight on my bow (sight, stab, vbar, doinker shortie on lower stab mount). Hence -- physical mass weight PLUS heaver DL. You don't have that problem. It may allow you go get heavier limbs.

someone more knowledgable can address that.

The general wisdom is to go up in 4# increments. A 32# limb will give you 35# AMO cranked all the way in. Your DW will depend on your DL. I am going to do the next 3 outdoor tournaments because it gave me INCHES more sight and I can get all the way to 60 yards/60 meters.

I can get away with 60 meters FITA in my age group. You -- maybe not so lucky and need 70 meters. Or 70 yards on some field/hunter/3d

Limb material will also affect speed. 

All I can suggest is to avoid being overbowed because your form will go to hell in a bucket. Hence, unless you can experiment for FREE with 34# limbs I'd suggest 32# because trust me -- fighting the bow weight is a bad idea.

Re Kaya limbs. No personal experience but others seem to be well pleased with them.


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## ShannaS (Jan 8, 2015)

Thanks, guys! I tried out a set of 38# limbs today. I'm leaning towards the heavier limbs... I'm fairly strong, and the 32#s didn't feel like any more than the 28#s. I'm feeling pretty confident that I can work up to them. I'm pulling 37# at my draw weight and shot them for about an hour today without any trouble. I guess the true test will be on the field course. I'm kinda in love with the look of the Kaya K2s, and they're sold out in 36#, so its forcing my hand a little. Plus, man, I love the big thunk of those heavy limbs!

Shooting the same setup, same arrows, same anchor, and basically the same technique, my coach's arrows hit 18" above mine. Our draw lengths are pretty close, so the guess is it is anatomy differences- the distance from our anchor to our line of sight for aiming down the point. It's like one of us is string walking... This is one of the things that are making me lean towards the heavier limbs. I guess I may learn my lesson about getting over bowed- but it may be a $150 lesson instead of a $400 one if I go with the Kayas. 

Thanks again!!


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Your coach's form may be more efficient as well. And his/her release and finish might be crisper, which will make a difference.

My coach reminded me yesterday that instead of bringing the string to my nose, I was moving my head forward slightly. I can't feel it. But when I concentrate on not doing that, the arrows hit higher. sometimes we can't feel what we're doing. That's why we gotta have someone watch us.


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## Kim Jong Skill (Dec 19, 2014)

StarDog said:


> Shanna:
> Arrows that were WEAK on a 28# SF Axiom + tuned like no tomorrow on the heavier limbs.


Are you saying that your weak arrows tuned when you increased in DW? O.O...


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## Varza (Sep 11, 2014)

Kim Jong Skill said:


> Are you saying that your weak arrows tuned when you increased in DW? O.O...


Curious about this too. StarDog?


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

Shanna, if you get the heavier limbs, you can also back your limb bolts out to lessen the weight as you work up. Also try put your draw elbow more down and your trajectory will be higher...at least that is what I noticed with myself. Rob


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

FWIW i am turning 70 this year and shoot my 34#(37# on my fingers) Borders Hex5 at 90M with the sight NOT all the way down...


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

granite14 said:


> Shanna, if you get the heavier limbs, you can also back your limb bolts out to lessen the weight as you work up. Also try put your draw elbow more down and your trajectory will be higher...at least that is what I noticed with myself.


re: 18 inch diff... and I'm not saying to change your elbow. I'm just saying if you experiment with it, you might see it as a factor. 
Also, did you change your nock point from your indoor string? Also brace height, number of strands, material, and speed of your string.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

I can't believe your coach is saying its a good idea for you to jump from 28# to 38# 😕

What arrows are you shooting?
You'll be needing to tune up a new set of arrows with the new draw weight.
Skinny light weight target arrows aren't much less than the cost of a good set of limbs, so factor in for that as well.


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## lowellhigh79 (Aug 3, 2012)

Hi Shanna,
First, congratulations on winning your class for indoor nationals! I met you in Salt Lake-I'm the barebow shooter who switched to lefty 4 weeks earlier. I'm also in the process of setting up for outdoor. I have 32# limbs on order (back-ordered actually...arrgh!) so currently, I'm working with my 30# indoor limbs cranked all the way in (~31-32#). With my 3L-04 ACCs with 92 grain points (total weight 288 grain), my point on is 64 yards. I'll probably try a lighter arrow with heavier points later on. I would shy away from going 38#. I'm sure you can handle it but unless you're trying to go 90 meters easily or just want as flat a trajectory as possible, you can comfortably work with 32-34# and achieve those same goals. I have a pair of 40# limbs that is a constant reminder of my folly. I developed right shoulder problems when I shot heavily with the 40# limbs and went down to 30# limbs. I don't dare try those 40# limbs with my left (and weaker) shoulder.

Best Regards,

Danny


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Kim Jong Skill said:


> Are you saying that your weak arrows tuned when you increased in DW? O.O...


Yep. I have no idea why. I wish I did. I had the plunger totally locked out and shot indoors and outdoors with them last year. When I went up a POUND -- it was awful. So I went to stiffer arrows when we started going back outdoors, which was worse. 

Then I put the new string on. Which is a tiny bit faster than the old one. I reset the plunger to "factory" as it were --- well not entirely. I stiffenend the plunger somewhat but not all the way.

Then the Inpers showed up. And I have added an unknown amount of poundage since I haven't weighed it yet. I figured I'd try the 15/25 (950 spine) and see if they were better than the 20/30 (820 spine). Yes they were.

Bear in mind I'm shooting 1525 Super clubs at 50 meters so I am mostly in the gold red blue, occasional black due to pilot error and of course not all of them are straight. 

We can say it's because it's best to shoot weak arrows outdoors but at 10-15 yards in my back yard range they fly pretty good, at least good enough for now til I get new arrows.

This arrow thing is dark magic to me. Totally. Except like center shot and on plane and setting the sight aperture. The mechanics I got.

The arrow choice takes a ouija board.


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## ShannaS (Jan 8, 2015)

Thanks, Danny. It was great meeting you! I'm feeling super frustrated with outdoors right now. I'm a total mess. I haven't been able to practice as much as I like, and since I haven't selected new limbs yet, everything feels like fruitless practice. I'm using a set of borrowed 32# W&W limbs right now and am point on with my Gold Tip Trad Hunter 1535/600 arrows at about 37 yards. (65g points) The 32# don't feel all that heavy to me, and am definitely wanting to go up a bit but am scared of getting over bowed. I'm leaning towards a set of the SF Plus Carbon limbs in 36# so I can tighten them down if I want, but am not making such a huge jump. I love the look of the Kaya K2s, but have heard of them twisting. Man, outdoors is a whole other game! Tuning isn't my favorite, so I'm trying not to get too down about the whole thing. I spend more time looking for arrows and digging points out of wood that I do shooting!


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Hey Shanna!
From my experience coaching barebow shooters and hanging out with a couple top shooters (Kelton from UCSD...that guy is a monster shooting 607/720 @50m w/ a Forged+ riser and SF Premium+ limbs after switching to barebow for less than a year). I've had an decent experience with Kaya limbs but with limbs under 300 dollars its usually up to the luck of the draw on how true/straight they are. SF Premium+ limb are pretty reliable too. For outdoor barebows, I find it isn't as critical to hurry up in weight since you don't have to worry about sight clearance. You can aim as high as you like. ;p A jump from 28 to 36 sounds a bit much to me but every person is different so if you think you can handle it then I'm all for it. If you say 32 doesn't feel too heavy then maybe you can try for 34? I think if you can afford to drop the money on a pair of MK Inpers it will be well worth the investment. 

Also, don't feel frustrated, go out there an have fun  Things will always come together and you'll love to enjoy shooting long distances!


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

GBUSA said:


> I can't believe your coach is saying its a good idea for you to jump from 28# to 38# 😕


Seconded. 

That is too big of a jump. Also, don't forget that you'll be shooting 6 arrow ends outdoors, quite likely in the heat. 38lbs will kick. Your. Butt. 

And, your groups will spread because you won't be able to hold the bow steady to take time to aim. You'll be wanting to dump that arrow as soon as you're at anchor, without sufficient time to aim. Trust me on this. 

Practice outdoors with your current limb weight, shooting 6 or 8 arrows. If you practice with more than six, you'll still have steam left when you only shoot 6 in tournament conditions. 

Guage how you feel after shooting at least 76 arrows. Then think about upgrading your limbs by no more than 6lbs. 

You'll be shooting out to 60m max, which you should be able to do at 28lbs, without aiming incredibly high, if your arrows are light enough. 

I shoot 30#, barebow. 34#, Olympic Recurve. Also a gal. 

Edit to add... just read that you're shooting GT Trads. They're pretty heavy. Try some Super Clubs, if you can. Maybe 15\25s, depending on your DL.

Good luck! And keep it fun.


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## ShannaS (Jan 8, 2015)

Thanks for all the great advice! I was able to get out and shoot yesterday and am feeling a bit better about things. I'm still thinking about the 36#s, and then also lighter arrows when I can afford them. It's all "just for fun!" right?! :smile:


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

You should be able to make 70-80 shooting 28# at close to 28". There might be virtues (flatter shot, more distance) and negatives (fatigue, strain, giving up at the end what you get at the start) to going up. 6# + is too much I'd think from injury and tune perspectives. You could do something less and my suggestion would be not ok I used to shoot x now y, and more, I have this within an arsenal to test. I bought 2#+ and 4#+ with xmas bonus last year, most of the time they sit, I do use them for some training, used one on a windy day tournament, and I will give them a 300 indoors once every so often and see how the score and stamina holds. Right now baseline setup I haven't changed a thing even though I got progression limbs, because I don't get a better score.

So you could probably make the distances without a change. And if you had to get something I'd treat it less like I'm moving up now with the purchase and more like, this is an experiment I can see if it works. Sometimes over a full round it is still the lighter limbs that score better.......until you build strength. Or maybe it is now too easy.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

ShannaS said:


> Thanks for all the great advice! I was able to get out and shoot yesterday and am feeling a bit better about things. I'm still thinking about the 36#s, and then also lighter arrows when I can afford them. It's all "just for fun!" right?! :smile:


I'd get the light arrows first. There are lighter/better options than the super-club which could be left full length for use with your current limbs and then easily tuned at a shorter DL for use with more powerful ones.

I've shot 70m with 30# limbs barebow before and it didn't involve aiming over.

-Grant


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

ShannaS said:


> I love the look of the Kaya K2s, but have heard of them twisting.


For limbs that are new for 2015, it'd be a pretty bad omen if they already have a reputation for twisting since you can't really get them easily yet. I hadn't even heard of them before this thread. I can't even find a company in the USA that offers them for sale online. The construction appears similar to the Kaya Tropics carbon/wood, except the K2 uses unidirectional carbon, if the drawings reflect reality. The Tropics were pretty good limbs for the money, so I'd expect the K2 would be as well. The graphics on the K2 sure do look a lot nicer in my opinion than the Tropics. In this age of ultra-flashy, loud limb graphics, those K2 limbs are very understated - in a good way.

I'll add my $0.02 here. Jumping from 28# to 38# is a BIG increase.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

Not enough information provided to respond to. How fast do you shoot? and are you planning going into Oly recurve? If you do snap shooting, yes you can pull heavier weights for a little bit but if you hold for just 2-3 seconds longer as in Oly, then a 10# jump would quickly become tiring and not fun at all. Pulling heavy is one thing, shooting with endurance and good form is another altogether. All depends on your shooting style, what does your form look like? a video would provide much information.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

grantmac said:


> I'd get the light arrows first. There are lighter/better options than the super-club which could be left full length for use with your current limbs and then easily tuned at a shorter DL for use with more powerful ones.
> 
> I've shot 70m with 30# limbs barebow before and it didn't involve aiming over.
> 
> -Grant


What lightweight arrows for outdoors distances do you recommend for someone on a serious budget, as Shanna is? The Gold Tip Traditionals, 1535s, that she is shooting are 7.6 grains per inch.


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

Maybe vap v6. I was considering those as they are lighter and cheaper than carbon ones.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

So here's a little context. Shanna is remarkable. In one year, she went from pretty much zero/true beginner to the women's barebow title at US Nationals in March. Sometime this winter, the whole back tension thing clicked for her and she has mastered that far better than her coach (i.e., me) has. She is very limited on money that she is able to spend on archery, and the indoor season has already stretched the family budget. I recommended the Gold Tip Traditional arrows last summer, thinking she could play around with 3D (which she'd expressed interest in) with them better than with her Platinum arrows for indoors. Now we are trying to see if we can get those Gold Tips to have a reasonable point on distance for her to be able to compete in American rounds and fita field. (Every new set of arrows is a bit of a financial hardship.) Aside from the arrows, the $200 (or less) limbs she is looking at will probably be slower than the limbs most of you are shooting at distance events. Also, like other barebow shooters, Shanna is shooting 3 fingers under. I like that since it will give her the ability to stringwalk, but it really affects your distance, so I also told her she may need to experiment with split finger to get more distance. I knew that it would not be good to jump from 28 to 38 overnight (although some trad shooters do just that every year in the switch from indoors to outdoors), so I loaned her my 32# RCX limbs, which come out to 30# at her draw, to build up with. She is still shooting them. The plan was after a while for her to switch to my 36# RCXs. With the 32 limbs and 65 grain pts on the Gold Tips, she was still only point on at 37 yards. I know she can aim with the shelf although that's not ideal. Something like a 50 yard point on is good for most of the events I shoot in barebow. As an experiment, she and I decided she would try my 36 RCX's and my 38 Winex limbs, in one indoor session, just to assess and see what happened. She went straight to the 38s and she blew me away with how easily she handled them. Not just for a few arrows but for a full hour of steady shooting. Her groups were awesome. I kept quizzing her on how she felt, and she felt good. Her form stayed good, she didn't look like she was wobbling and straining. She does not snap shoot. She was steady. And she stayed steady for the whole hour. She was amazing. The limbs looked like a great fit for her -- and the fact that she successfully transfers the weight to her back has a lot to do with that. But I still had some reservations and told her not to rush into buying 38s and that we would try the 36s outdoors first. (I've been out of town so that hasn't happened yet.) I had hoped that the 38s would be 34 pounds at her draw, but on a bow scale they came out to 37, which alarmed me a little. Although I just quizzed two of the top women barebow shooters in fita field, and they draw 37 and 38 pounds. (That was Julie Robinson and Rebecca Nelson-Harris, at last weekend's fita field in Arizona.) Shanna is very strong (she's a blueberry farmer) and she's 38 years old. She sure looks to me like she can handle those 38 pound limbs, but I want to be very cautious because there is always a risk of injury. (And I appreciate all the cautions people have expressed.) Right now she is leaning toward 36s, and she has the 32s to use as a bridge to those. Maybe the 34s are a good choice as a starter outdoors limb even though her point on distance will be less than ideal. We are still thinking it over. But it was never part of my plan to have her jump straight from 28s to 38s without at least a few weeks of intermediary limbs. And maybe a few weeks isn't enough. You guys can let me know.

Laurie Robinson
Level 3


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

I've got some Carbon 1 660 and 730 spines you can try. Might work since they are 30 inches. 3 arrows of each. I'm at 38# and they were too weak for me. Also if you want to try a faster string (not sure what you are using), ping me. Rob


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I'd be putting her into a set of VAP V6 800 or Carbon Impact Super Club 20/30 long before I pointed her towards different limbs, just makes sense from a financial standpoint.

The GT1535 Trad is the last shaft I'd recommend for someone shooting under 30# but it appears to have worked at least for indoor. 

-Grant


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## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Shanna I'd say go for it. Based on what I read, you and your coach seem to have given a lot of thought and careful consideration to this change. Trust your coach.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

grantmac said:


> I'd be putting her into a set of VAP V6 800 or Carbon Impact Super Club 20/30 long before I pointed her towards different limbs, just makes sense from a financial standpoint.
> 
> The GT1535 Trad is the last shaft I'd recommend for someone shooting under 30# but it appears to have worked at least for indoor.
> 
> -Grant


She didn't use the GTs indoors -- she used Platinum 1916s, full length so she could be point on at 20 yards for nfaa trad rules that don't allow stringwalking.
The GTs bareshaft tested great with the 65 grain points and the 38# limbs, and also good with 100 grain points and 32# limbs. The idea was that she would transition into heavier limbs for outdoors so eventually she could be as competitive outdoors as she is indoors. If she couldn't afford any new limbs, lighter arrows would be the ticket. Thanks for the VAP recommendation -- those seem worth considering for her next set of arrows.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

iArch said:


> Shanna I'd say go for it. Based on what I read, you and your coach seem to have given a lot of thought and careful consideration to this change. Trust your coach.



Thank you for the vote of confidence.


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## JimB1 (Feb 18, 2013)

Well, I can't help out as much as most of the folks here but I can tell you that I have been shooting Kaya K1 limbs for almost two years now with no issues. They are the wood/glass and I am thinking about the K2 or K3's for my next weight level (#30) but might spend the extra on MK Inpers when he time comes since I may actually stop at that weight or at least stay there for a while. We'll see what the budget looks like when I am ready. I have a long draw (32.5" AMO) so my current #26 are somewhere around #32 at my fingertips with the limb adjustment maxed out on the riser (I don't know exactly, don't have the equipment to measure that). If there is stacking, I really don't notice it. Might just be that I am used to them. 

So pretty much, my experience with Kaya has been very good. 

BTW, congrats on the barebow title. Very impressive. :clap2:
-Jim


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

Laurie Borealis said:


> So here's a little context...


It sounds as though Shanna is in great hands. 

Looking forward to meeting you ladies on the field, and watching Shanna's progress. Rootin' for ya!


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## ShannaS (Jan 8, 2015)

Thanks everyone! So, an update: Laurie helped me sort out a great solution. We tightened the limb bolts down on my 28#s 2 full turns. Split finger, with the GT Trads I can now get out to 60 yards without a crazy gap! Yay!! I'm going to hold off on heavier limbs for now, since these are doing what I need, and save up for a more expensive pair for next season. I really like the look of the Kaya limbs, so I'm super excited to hear the good review. The split finger is an adjustment, but I think with some work, I'll get there. Thanks for all the great advice and support!


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

W00t! That's good news, Shanna. 

Out of curiosity, how far are you gapping at 60? On the bale? 

I can get almost point on with split finger, and index finger anchored in the corner of my mouth. That's using Medallion XR 900s, 30# limbs. Haven't measured my draw in a long time, but around 26".


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## ShannaS (Jan 8, 2015)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> W00t! That's good news, Shanna.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how far are you gapping at 60? On the bale?
> 
> I can get almost point on with split finger, and index finger anchored in the corner of my mouth. That's using Medallion XR 900s, 30# limbs. Haven't measured my draw in a long time, but around 26".


At 60y, I've got the edge of the shelf on the center of the yellow. I anchor with the top of my Bateman split finger tab in the corner of my mouth. I *can't* believe how much distance you can get with split finger. It really feels weird to me, but I'm so excited to be able to get out that far with my 28#s! Still need to adjust my plunger and get tie in nocks, but I'm getting closer! I'm also looking forward to getting down to the bow shop to see what I'm pulling since we tighten the limb bolts down. I'm so curious to see how much extra I got through that.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

That's great Shanna. Yes, it's fun to watch how students react when you change them from three under, to split finger, and then... under the chin!! Holy high arrows, Batman.

I love your enthusiasm. You're going to be (already are?) an archery geek, like me, haha.


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