# red oak board bow question



## Hunter255 (Dec 10, 2004)

Go to tradgang.com. They can help you with any issues on building trad bows. All the red oak bows i build i used burlap or cloth fiber glass with smooth on epoxy that worked well.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

For anyhting hard (like wood or fiberglass) you must clamp it in place. C-clamps and wooden shims will be perfect. Put as many on as you have, there is no such thing as too much coverage:wink:.


----------



## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

The biggest problem you may run into is the fiberglass backing overpowering the red oak belly. Be very careful and watch for crystals and frets. Personally, and this is just me, I'd back it with rawhide instead of fiberglass. Red oak isn't known for having a lot of compression strength, and rawhide will help avoid crushing the belly.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*red oak build along*

Thanks for the info....I actually have already posted the same question at tradgang....but didn't get any help there....the actual build along that i'm following the guy uses drywall tape(screen looking type) as his backing....he uses 3 layers of this stuff....he even admits it looks like crap and paints it....I was trying to use something that I could still see the wood grain thru...but I may have to use leather,linens or something else until I get some experiance at this...thanks again.....Steve this is the link to the build along i'm using

http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/index.html


----------



## Hunter255 (Dec 10, 2004)

You can try linen. I even heard of people using a silk tie for backing. One red oak bow i used canvas which work well. I just glued it on with titebond 2. Another good site is stickbow.com.


----------



## AK in PA (Nov 30, 2002)

I'm not a fan of oak boards, but you're on the right track with backing it. I'd suggest you back it with hickory, glued with Urac 185. 1/8" hickory bow backing laminations can be ordered from Pine Hollow Longbows or 3 Rivers Archery. A pint of Urac can be ordered from Nelson Paints, and perhaps the two outfits above. All are online.

Score the gling surfaces with rough sandpaper, a hacksaw blade, or toothing plane immediately prior to gluing. Urac is a two part glue of resin and powder. It's best mixed by weight if you have a grain scale, but it can be mixed by volume. Plastic souffle cups (plastic salad dressing containers that restaurants use) make handy measuring tools and mixing cups. Apply glue to both surfaces. Starting at the grip and working towards the tips, clamp every 2-3 inches along the limb. Protect the backing with small pine blocks. (Lay a strip of newspaper between the pine blocks and the backing so you don't inadvertantly glue the pine blocks to the backing.) An alternative is to bind the backing to the board tightly with half sections of bicycle inner tubes. Make sure the air temp is at least 65 degrees using Urac. Let it dry with clamps for 2 days. 

Another backing option is rawhide. It's a little messier and more difficult to get right, but it's also a very good backing.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*red oak longbow*

thanks for all the ideas....gives me some different options....thanks again...steve


----------



## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

Huntersteve! good on ya for trying out a boardbow!!

I'm thinkin if the grain of the wood is mint you likely won't need a backing..
but if suspect alot of the above is good advise,,,however..
you may want something easier..
titebond 3 wood glue and some linen (camo cover)patterned cloth
the sky's the limit really some cool looking material available
just smooth on a coat on your bow back with your fingers the apply the cloth smooth more on the top of the cloth and let dry
trim to the edge then sand lightly, coat with your choice of finish,,done!


----------



## DrJAG2 (Jun 6, 2005)

Made LOTS of linen-backed red oak board bows. You can get a couple yards of linen at G Street Fabrics for a few bucks I cut the linen close to dimension, size the wood with TB2, stretch the linen over the back of the bow, clamp the ends down, run a round tube the length to get rid of bubbles or uneven spots, slather the thing down with more TB2, and let it dry. This has worked well for me.

But think about this .......... why not go unbacked? Tiller carefully. Maybe you have bad runoffs?


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

seems like there's a ton of different materials to back a bow with...the camo cloth would probably look cool....I was trying to keep the natural wood look to this one but i probably should "keep it simple " for my 1st bow....I have already glued on a walnut riser and done my rough out...also built my tillering tree today....I haven't even finished my first bow and I'm already addicted....thanks for the ideas and if I can figure out how I will post some pics.....Steve


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

here are some pics....hope this works.....


----------



## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

Looks like a bow too me!!!  Good Job! nice pics...
be nice to see it bending...

Yes there is a ton of stuff/choices to make when building bows,,,thats why you never can get enough of making them 

Dr.J has also done some heat treating on one of his beautiful Oak bows..
he can help you in that department if'n you wanted I'm thinkin..
just another choice.... lol..
now comes the fun part,,, actually its all fun!!!


----------



## Hunter255 (Dec 10, 2004)

Looks good Steve. Check out this link. Here is a little easy to make tool that will help you tiller the bow. It works great.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000075


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

T poof,hunter255....I went ahead and picked up some of the mesh fiberglass drywall tape today...I'm going to use it as a backing this time...In the build-along that I'm following it says to put 3 layers of this backing on letting it set 20 min. between each layer...how long does it need to dry....I guess I could just go by feel(dryness)...while it's drying I'm going to finish putting together my tillering tree and build me one of those tillering gizmo's from the link you gave me hunter255....I'll post some more pics after backing is on....Steve


----------



## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

Steve,,, no experience with drywall tape,, other than on drywall..lol
I'd go one layer and let her sit overnight,,, just don't put no drywall mud on her!

Pics should be good.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

tpoof...using drywall mesh is not easy....it wants to have humps and rolls down the back...tried adding more glue(per the instructions) it helped some...not sure how this will turn out...live and learn I guess....Steve


----------



## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

:mg: It seems that sometimes some materials will fight you every step of the way! It seems that this is more true when using "manmade" material along with "natural" material..  that stiff fiberglass...
You may want to clamp the ends with a spring clamp to hold it all tight and wait till dry,,, or you can always redo the backing,,, now that you're a "bowyer":wink:lol Thats one thing about making stuff, it willl always teach you something.. You can always modify as required...

the last backing I did was of sinew and snakeskin and because they are 'like' materials the process was so easy it was unreal!:thumbs_up

I still think that the linen was the way to go:wink:
waiting for pics....


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

here are some of the pics during backing glue up....I should've listened and tried linen....we'll see how it turns out...that's why I'm using inexpensive wood to start with....


----------



## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

'All is not yet lost' 
She may be fine! Let er dry and see what happens...
I'm thinkin it'll be thick with glue.. prolly have to retiller,,

still fun though eh? yes,,


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

yea...regardless of what happens with this one...I'm already hooked....I'm going to let it dry over night...trim off excess tomorrow and then I'll post some more pics....


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

Backing finished drying today....sanded down the rough edges....and finished building my tillering tree....


----------



## No.1 Hoyt (Mar 11, 2007)

nice looking bow. Im doin a read oak board bow from the same site. we are on the same exact steps too. I cant tiller until my strings come in though. Im painting the fiberglass black and im going to have a red and black string.
are bows are identicle too. I have a walnut handle too. What a weird coincidence

keep up the good work:thumbs_up

david

p.s. go to primitve archer kegan told me about that site and its awesome


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

hopefully my tillering string will come in soon....i got dark blue to paint my backing....post some picks of your bow if you can....steve


----------



## Hunter255 (Dec 10, 2004)

Looks good Steve. Nice tillering tree. Just take you time tillering. Get an even bend across the entire limb. If they are uneven you will get allot of handshock. That little tool for tillering works great. Good luck


----------



## Hunter255 (Dec 10, 2004)

Here is a red oak bow that is am working on.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/hunter255/P1010021.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/hunter255/P1010020.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/hunter255/P1010019.jpg


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

You guys don't have to wait for the tillering strings- any long cord that won't stretch will work. I use paracord, it works great for me.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

nice work on your bow hunter255...I like the grip and shelf work you've done...looks great....I marked my string nocks and started filing them...at 45 degrees per the instructions....looks like crap....we'll see...Steve


----------



## sooperrooster (Apr 9, 2007)

*I've done it*

one time while in a pinch I backed a board bow with two silk ties to save a hunting trip. That bow that i thought was on the edge of traveling on to happier places with out me still shoots!!! it's been seasons now and it is still in one shootable peice. the board has taken snapped strings at full draw, nocks shattering while shooting and other dryfire type events happen. not to mention at least once or twice, I've tried loosing an arrow only to have my bow limb smack into a tree branch i thouhgt i was clear of! fiberglass is very tough stuff, but don't underestimate natural materials like silk and rawhide. slik is strand for strand stronger than steel and i wager it weighs less than anything else you could back a bow with. well, that is unless you figure out how to work sinew. i haven't yet so can't comment on that.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

hey Kegan....followed your advice on the tillering string....Googled up timber hitch...learned how to tie one and off we go...started working on the tiller a little today....one limb is way stiffer than the other....I'm going to take my time with this part....I'll try to take some more pics soon...


----------



## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

Yes,, good one Kegan! another fella uses thin aircraft cable with loops for tillering heavy English longbows...
silk is an excellent choice for backing and easy to apply 

long string tiller to around brace height then switch to a shorter string to continue....adjust the timber hitch


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow-The End*

well...the end came suddenly today....I think I'll try a different type of wood on the next one....I'm wide open for suggestions.....


----------



## Hunter255 (Dec 10, 2004)

Wow sorry to see that. Just a bad piece of wood. You have to be careful in picking the wood. Go thru the whole pile for a straight grain piece. I would have to go to multiple places to find the right piece. Good luck with the next one.


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, it is awful that it broke, but it is awsome that you are still interested in making another bow! If you want one that won't break, I'd go with a hickory stave, using the outside of the log as the back of the bow. I found these are nearly impossible to breka unless you have a REALLY bad tiller. If you can't come up with one, I have some nice ones and could send you one if you send the shipping.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Broken bow*

thanks kegan...I appreciate that...I may take you up on that offer...I think I need to get some more info on the bow building process....It may have been my wrong doing that broke the bow during the tillering process...how much would it cost me to get one of those hickory staves? thanks ..Steve


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

_The Bent Stick_ by Paul Comstock through 3Rivers is $16, and it wil tell you eevrything you need to know about building simple, effective hutning selfbows.

Just shipping, giving their average size, $20 should do it. But most are only about 66" long, so probably won't get more than a 28" draw if that's makes a difference.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*hickory stave*

thanks for the info on reading materials.....PM sent


----------



## Oakey (Jun 27, 2007)

*newbie dumb luck*

Hi all. 
I tripped over this forum yesterday while comparing people's notes on boardbows. It was too cool to see huntersteve and no 1 hoyt building a bow following the same site I am.
My son (9) has been after me to build me a bow for a while now. Upon researching it, I thought I'd try. 
2 weeks later, I'm almost finished, I have yet to wrap the string at the center and set the nock point. I built the bow child sized (58" ntn,20#@23"). I haven't broken it yet (better to be lucky than good sometimes). It's for his birthday on the 30th, and I wasn't sure I'd finish in time.
This was originally an experiment to see if he is really interested....but (oops!) I think I got hooked instead.
I'll see if I can post some pic's of it soon. (feel free to point any errors y'all might see). I think I'll be starting my own bow soon, probably red oak board, silk backed, 70"ntn, 35#@26". Any advice would be great.


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

Oakey....yea my first bow kind of went bad for me....but I'm hooked anyway....probably messed up during tillering...I've already started another red oak bow and will be starting one using hickory in a couple of weeks....If you don't mind me asking....What did you use for a backing?...and What is your limb thickness near the nock grooves?...can't wait to see the picks....Steve


----------



## Oakey (Jun 27, 2007)

Hey Steve, great to meet you. 
The limbs are a pretty constant 3/8" from fades to tip. I thought I'd never get all the tool marks out. I worried they were too thin...but it is only 20#. I faded the handle very gradually. So from fade to fade it's 12". 
Same as you I backed it with the glass drywall tape (3 layers as recommended). It didn't really lay down as flat as I would have liked but it's a first effort and lessons were learned. I think I'll use silk or linen next time for a smooth finish. I am told they take paint well.
I got the string finished today (endless loop) and took it out for some exercise. I didn't want to use my son's forearm guard so with a brace of only 5 1/2" my arm got punished a little. But, it gets arrow to cardboard (I haven't shot in 22 yrs).
I've got the camera charging now so I'll see about those pics soon.
Ray


----------



## Oakey (Jun 27, 2007)

I apologize for the poor picture quality here. I'll get it figured out soon enough I guess.
I've not seen it at full draw since I finished it. That pic scares me...maybe I ruined it while sanding it down...maybe it's just a bad pic (i hope):doh:

anyway...if it looks, walks, and barks like a duck?


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I don't see what you're worried about, the tiller looks good, and it looks like an exceptionally fine bow- well done!


----------



## Oakey (Jun 27, 2007)

Thanks for the reassurance Kegan.
I was looking at the lower limb. It appears to me to have more flex than the upper. Maybe the wall panelling is creating an illusion for me. 
I think part of my worry stems from creating a bow for someone with a 23" draw, then drawing it to 26" out of instinct. I want it to last a while for him, and feared I may have damaged it. Just a case of nerves I guess.:embara:


----------



## huntersteve (Feb 28, 2005)

*Red Oak Longbow*

Ray....that's a great looking bow...I hope that I can get one to turn out that good...thanks for the info on your measurements...I have another bow roughed out now....I have the limbs at about 3/8" as you said yours is....I just glued on the riser...this time I used strips of walnut,cedar and red oak to give it a different look....trial and error....can't make up my mind on the backing....I have a clear fiberglass backing that I ordered....I may try it out...I don't know a lot about this stuff but you would think that different backings would effect the ending poundage....we'll see....Steve


----------



## Oakey (Jun 27, 2007)

Steve...thanks a lot for the kind words. I think (hope) my son will like it. I can't wait to get started on red oak#2. I also was thinking of layering some different woods in my riser. I'm very curious to see how the fiberglass backing works for you if you choose to use it. 
There was some discussion of the properties of a few different backings on the site I believe you were also following for your bow.
http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/backings.htm
He doesn't mention fiberglass though and I don't think I'm ready to try sinew.
Please do remember before you duplicate my measurements, I am new at this too. I'm not a bowyer yet...and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm sure there are lots of veterans here who could offer good advice on limb thickness and backing materials. Also, my son's bow is a small one with a light draw weight.
Besides...you may not have caused the break...there may have been a defect in that particular board. 
Good luck and keep us posted.
--Ray


----------



## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Sinewing a bow, like brain tanning, is made to seem harder than it is. Sinew will do WONDERS for your bow. It will help stress, add "snap" reduce string follow, and help poor tillering. Simply get several hanks, seperate into strands, wet slightly, and apply in a thin even layer with Titebond II (whihc seems easier than hide glue for first timers). After your first bow, you will want to be saving the sinew form every deer you harvest as mush as the meat, from the legs and back.


----------

