# limb tiller



## abe archer (Mar 2, 2003)

For finger shooting is it the upper or lower limb more or less than the other?


----------



## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=274260&highlight=tiller+tuning

Hi Dean , 100 years ago when I started shooting , common thought was 1/8th more bottom tiller ........ this is a pretty good thread that I found , havent played with it yet tho


----------



## FallingCrows (Sep 24, 2007)

I have 1/8" more bottom tiller. 
This is with shooting using a Damascus glove, 1 fingers over and 2 under, and then dropping the third finger at my anchor point. I don't know if this is any help to you, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to mention.


----------



## abe archer (Mar 2, 2003)

Hi Dan, I have done that in the past but outdoors. It is hard to get 30-40 yards indoors.


----------



## abe archer (Mar 2, 2003)

*Thanks*

Thank you FallingCrows that was what I needed.


----------



## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I must have been asleep in class the day tiller was discussed. I've NEVER shot a negative tiller......


----------



## shadowhunter (Oct 12, 2003)

*newer bows*

Newer bows are usually set equal these days. It still is a matter of choice or necessity to find the tiller that works for you and your particular bow. My Protec is set with a "little" more crank on top because I couldn't seem to pull my bow up into the spot easily.


----------



## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

On Hoyt compounds I've purchased in the last few years, the manual states the bow is made to have zero tiller. You can, of course, "tiller tune" if you like but zero is the place to start, and likely to end. I was able to adjust the nock height on one Hoyt that had somewhat unbalanced limbs that required an abnormal amount of nock height to something more normal. On the Mathews Apex and probably most other solo cams, tiller doesn't matter much because of the top idler wheel. You can adjust the tiller lots with no real affect on nock height and all that. Their manual states bottoming the limbs and counting turns is all that's needed. I've toyed with tiller on FITA type recurves and found zero tiller worked as good as anything. These are long recurves, ~68", and not short hunting bows. 

I made longbows for a while, both laminated and selfwood, and discovered that postive tiller (lower limb stiff - less tiller) is necessary because they're made to shoot the arrow off the shelf or your finger about 2" high of center. Hence the lower limb of the bow is effectively 2" longer than the top and needs to be stiffer for good arrow flight with a "normal" nock height. Since these bows have no tiller adjustment, it has to be set by the bowyer. Modern cam bows have the amount of string movement engineered into the mix and generally don't need the same type of tuning. Tiller tuning is a matter of tuning how you shoot the bow best and not the same as general tiller setting.


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

*Creep tuning*

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=207391 Javi's thread in the bow tuning section.

If you own a hybrid cam system then I suggest that you follow Javi thread. Creep tune instead of Tiller. I works great if you have the time.

"Finally I use the hybrid cam creep tuning method to set the bow to my shooting style."


----------



## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

Basically with tiller tuning , all you are trying to do is get the bow to aim better , it really has nothing to do with timing , javis advice in his threads on tuning and creep tuning are excellent and will make a bow shoot quieter , more consistant and with less vibration ..... good stuff 

Its been a long time since I have shot anything other than even tiller , when I 1st started out , the local pro shop always set bows up going out of the shop with the bottom tiller 1/8th inch farther out than the top - he also had new shooters shooting 1 over 2 under , I have played around with different tillers , tonite the wife had a Drs appt so being the good husband that I am  , I went to the range and experimented , started out even tiller - shot 1/2 a score , went to a 1/8th inch more bottom tiller - shot 1/2 a score , went to 1/8th inch less bottom tiller - shot 1/2 a score , adjusting nockset every time , on my X8 ( cant speak for any other bow ) score wise it did not make a difference , it was no more or less forgiving , nor did it aim any different ( well at least not much , there was some difference but it was minor ) for any of the three , the bow was quieter at even tiller tho ...... bareshafted a little with each set up ... my o my , sure could see differences there .......... anyways , that was a little of what I saw with a very small amount of " playing " tonite ..... best part was , I think I solved the majority of my anchor problem that has been buggin me , OK off to do some more wrenchin on my bow ............. it will probably never shoot good again


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

ia bhtr said:


> best part was , I think I solved the majority of my anchor problem that has been buggin me , OK off to do some more wrenchin on my bow ............. it will probably never shoot good again


ia bhtr, please explain more on how tiller solved your anchor problem. I seem to have the same anchor thing happening, but for now the only way to solve it is to close my stance, which keep me from shooting left some times.


----------



## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

Not to belabor the subject but setting the tiller and tiller tuning are really sort of two different subjects. Older compounds use to have wheels/cams that had the same amount of string travel so were generally setup with a small amount of postive tiller, like a recurve or lonbow, because they shoot an arrow a few inches above the center of the bow. Today's cams have been engineered to a high degree and are made such that they work best at zero tiller. Recent Hoyt manuals recommend zero tiller. Tiller tuning, on the other hand, is adjusting tiller to see if more or less enables you to shoot better scores. Tuning is making the bow conform to your shooting technique and style, not making the bow more accurate. Maybe I'm splitting hairs. I've tried tiller tuning with a few ProTecs and wound up back at zero tiller, where I started. I have been able to adjust nock height by adjusting tiller on a bow that I assume had unequal limbs and bareshafting indicated I needed an abnormally high nock height. I tried to do the same with a Mathews Apex and found tiller had essentially no affect on nock height due to the idler wheel. I've done cam creep tuning also and found it to be effective but is a different process than tiller tuning. I sometimes think that the most benefit from all this tuning is the amount of shooting you do and how well you get to know your bow rather than improving the bow's ability to shoot. Cheers!


----------



## ia bhtr (May 22, 2002)

DDSHOOTER said:


> ia bhtr, please explain more on how tiller solved your anchor problem. I seem to have the same anchor thing happening, but for now the only way to solve it is to close my stance, which keep me from shooting left some times.


hi dd ........ solving the anchoring problem was just a by product of the xtra shooting that I did while just messing around with this limb tiller stuff , I was working on my form as much as I was tiller , found a better way to set my right shoulder was all , this thread just got me curious and gave me a reason to go shoot somemore and " play " a little , really just wanted to see if I could mess up the way the bow shot by dinkin with it a little


russ , agree with everything you said , you say things much more elequently than the rest of us , and you answers are much easier to understand than what some of us put in print , even tho we mite be trying to say the same , or similar things


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

ia, Thanks, I use to set tiller on the two cam round wheel bows as Russ has indicated. I think todays bows have better laminated limbs that don't require any offsetting (better testing and matching). Today, hybred cams move the limb tips very little and limb deflections are in the 80-100 pd range react within msec of each other, requiring less twicking. Now cam sync (Creep tuning to your shooting style) is a different story. dd


----------



## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

I found this thread in bow tuning. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=807479

Not alot of details. dd


----------

