# Importance of ledge in KSL or Elite Finger Tabs



## Clarsach (Aug 18, 2012)

I have an elite, but I am still using a side of face anchor, so I removed the ledge completely. I figure I will put it back on and try it when I move to an under the chin anchor. But when I look at what other people are using I see a lot of people using tabs without a ledge and shooting just fine. Seems to me it is a personal preference.

I suppose a ledge would be helpful when you shoot at longer distances. In the end it seems to me that as with most things in archery it is a matter of trying it both ways and seeing what works best for you.


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## target1 (Jan 16, 2007)

To each his own...I use it because it was there from the begining and I just got use to it.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

Lee has never advocated the use of a ledge. From what I've gathered, AAE pretty much forced it to be included.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Some use the ledge, and some do not. It can become a crutch for some who use it, but it should not be. It is another reference point for your anchor. I don't see why you would choose NOT to use one though. It is a legal way to gain more consistency. The ledge is adjustable in the vertical plane, so perhaps you just need to adjust it down or up to fit your needs.

When adjusting a ledge, you should have solid contact with the jawbone both from the ledge AND (most important part here) from the index finger knuckles. The mistake most folks who use a ledge make is that the ledge is too high, and there is no contact between the jawbone and the index finger knuckles. In some cases, this is necessary for a young archer to reach their furthest outdoor distance with a lightweight bow. My own daughter has a very high ledge on her Wilson (Black Widow) tab for this very reason - so she can shoot out to 60 meters with her 22 lb. bow. But it's not ideal, and as soon as they are able to reach their longest distances with a properly adjusted ledge, I will bring the ledge down to a point where there is solid contact between both the ledge and index finger knuckles - as it should be. 

When coach Lee first brought the "BEST" method to the U.S., us Jr. Dream Team coaches were instructed to remove the ledges from our student's tabs. He did not advocate using a ledge, and recommended students use the W&W tab without the ledge. A few years later I noticed ledges showing up on many RA's tabs. Now "his" tab features a ledge, and most of the RA's use one. 

Go figure...

John


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Correct. Coach Lee advocates removal of the ledge for most.

The goal for most archers is bone on bone contact. Index knuckle to jaw bone if possible.

Some find the ledge helps stabilize the tab. I find that the multiple straps does a better job of this for most.

Use what works but if you can maintain bone to bone contact for your anchor, the feel should be easier to duplicate than a ledge that can move in your hand.


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

Interesting! When I purchased my Elite, neither the finger spacer nor the ledge was attached to the tab, giving me the option to do either if I wanted to. I attached the spacer since I shoot split finger. If I'm reading the postings correctly, the ledge would be advantageous if you're anchoring below the jaw. But I anchor with the index finger at the corner of my mouth, so the ledge would not be beneficial. Right? Larry


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

larry tom said:


> Interesting! When I purchased my Elite, neither the finger spacer nor the ledge was attached to the tab, giving me the option to do either if I wanted to. I attached the spacer since I shoot split finger. If I'm reading the postings correctly, the ledge would be advantageous if you're anchoring below the jaw. But I anchor with the index finger at the corner of my mouth, so the ledge *would not* be beneficial. Right? Larry


Actually it would probably be detrimental for this anchor.


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## Clarsach (Aug 18, 2012)

Hi Larry, mine came with the ledge and spacer separate too, but the screws for the ledge were attached. There is no way I could anchor to the corner of my mouth with the ledge on because I can't make contact with enough of my hand against my face without digging the ledge into my face. 

Like you I use the spacer but removed even the screws for the ledge. 

That said, I love this tab. I've only had it a couple of weeks but it is great. My only issue is I am having trouble figuring out how to trim it. I followed the instructions about using powder to see where the string leaves the face but that has been inconclusive. I'm hoping with enough shooting it will wear so I can see it better. For now I've just enlarged the split into more of a V.


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks Clarsach. I thought that was the case. Its probably a good idea to remove the screws for the ledge, so I think I will do that. 

General question/comment about anchoring. I'm a relatively new shooter, so I'm still experimenting with my anchor, aiming method, etc. I'm intriqued about anchoring below the jaw, as I see that a lot with competitive archers. I would think that would improve your aim a bit. Any thoughts about that from the forum members?

Larry


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

If you look at the ledges the RA's are using, it is not the size of a traditional ledge. They are very very small. In those cases, the ledge is only being used as an additional touch point when at anchor. The primary contact point is still the index finger. Coach Lee still doesn't recommend a ledge as it is traditionally used. 

Terry


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

bownut-tl. said:


> If you look at the ledges the RA's are using, it is not the size of a traditional ledge. They are very very small. In those cases, the ledge is only being used as an additional touch point when at anchor. The primary contact point is still the index finger. Coach Lee still doesn't recommend a ledge as it is traditionally used.
> 
> Terry


Thanks for the clarification Terry. Good info to know.

And Terry should know since he used to be the only source of these style tabs.. It used to be, we had to have Coach Lee's blessing before Terry was allowed to sell you one of the custom made tabs.

Did you make it to the Toy shoot at Woodley park? I heard you were in LA when Chris RL tried to contact you.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

dchan said:


> Correct. Coach Lee advocates removal of the ledge for most.
> 
> The goal for most archers is bone on bone contact. Index knuckle to jaw bone if possible.
> 
> ...


I guess I don't understand. If you can achieve BOTH bone-to-bone contact in one plane, AND bone-to-ledge contact in another plane, why wouldn't you? 

If you want to further "stabilize" the tab with multiple straps, then heck, do that too! 

But why on earth would someone CHOOSE to take away a distinct mechanical advantage?

I believe it's just old fashioned thinking and tradition.

John


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

John, I think that the way in which Lee teaches to anchor, there is no way for the ledge to contact bone. The underside of the jaw bone needs to sit entirely on top of the index finger. I think this would make a ledge dig into the flesh on the underside of the jaw.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That's fine.

But here's a question. If you have a choice of resting a round object against another round object, OR resting a round object in the corner of a round object and a flat one, which would you choose? 

For many beginning and intermediate archers, a rock-solid anchor will be much more easily achieved by putting their jawbone "in the corner," so to speak, as opposed to laying it along another round object.

John


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> I guess I don't understand. * If you can achieve BOTH bone-to-bone contact in one plane, AND bone-to-ledge contact in another plane, why wouldn't you?
> *
> If you want to further "stabilize" the tab with multiple straps, then heck, do that too!
> 
> ...


Great point John and agreed regarding if you get both.. 

If I use the anchor Coach Lee was working on with me, any ledge would not come in contact with bone. In fact the edge of my tab doesn't even contact bone (in my case). When I was using a Cav elite, I ground off the top of the tab so it would not dig into my neck as much. When I finished a session, you could clearly see where the Aluminum edge was rubbing along the fleshy part of my neck well inside the bone structure. Again, this is for me, my facial geometry, My fingers/grip, and the way I was taught to anchor. A ledge in my case would be extremely uncomfortable and would also cause my tab to move more in my hand then less.

If it helps get that extra reference point/stability/contact, then yes by all means use it (get it set up properly). If you need it to get more distance, or your fingers are not flexible enough to get the index knuckle bent back enough to get the whole bone against the jaw, then YES by all means take and use the mechanical advantage. No problem with using mechanical advantage. 

For me, it was a Mechanical Disadvantage to have that ledge in the way.

DC

edit. changed colors. Green looked horrible


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

Dchan,

I was at the OTC conducting a JDT selection camp. Never made it to LA.

Terry


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## OCBrent (Sep 27, 2007)

Hello,

On the Facebook page for the KSL tab they show some close up pictures of their tab as Brady, Wukie, and some other team members have them setup. Some using the Ledge / Shelf, some not.

Hopefully this link will work:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.223980067653168.71204.164594260258416&type=1

if not try this link and look for a photo album that has about 30 pictures in it:

https://www.facebook.com/AAE.KSL.Gold.Finger.Tab

Also, some good old threads on Anchor, Tab, Ledge, ... in this forum that can be found by searching.

Brent


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