# My New 27" Gillo G1



## JINKSTER

Pendulum Effect of the BB weight is Awesome! 











I'm sure this is probably commonplace on these riser types but I found it very comforting that the Gillo G1 is equipped with viewing window cut-outs in the limb pocket sides to allow visual inspection of the limb being fully seated against the limb bolts.











I slapped the 68" AMO 8190 string on it setting the BH at 8 3/4" and without adjusting a thing yet?...got this with the Beiter limb alignment gauges...not to shabby at all....











and this is what a 27" Gillo G1 with "Shorts" look like when strung....











Gotta run now...I think I hear Gary McCains Adjustable Springy calling my G1's name! LOL!











Thanks for looking and L8R, Bill.


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## Arron

Cool, happy shooting Jink's


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## JINKSTER

Bolted a Spig ZT magnetic flipper through the front threaded hole and ran a Shibuya DX Plunger through the back threaded hole and adjusted by setting up my full length, .700 spine, GT Ultralights by eyeball.

The Bow is scaling 37#s at 28"s that has me holding 35#s on my Bateman Tab at my 27" DL.

and these were my first 5 shots ever off this rig at 15yds...literally shots #1-#5...zero tuning...and wow....I'm blown away...this is going to become a killer rig! 










there's 3 fletched trying to share one hole in the bale...1 fketched just underneath them and my 1 bare shaft just an inch or two too the right....










I was so excited I ran in the house for my smartphone to take those pics and was so confident with this rig already I then videod shots #6-#10 here...


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## JINKSTER

*UPDATE:*

So I managed to get home from work with nearly an hour of sunlight to spare with the remote chance there would be an LAS box at my front door though that would be very fast for "Free Shipping Ground"...but alas?...my hopes were dashed as I pulled up the drive to nothing but a front door...but NP....as I'm still beyond thrilled and excited to have the Gillo G1...and while the limbs that are on it are dedicated to my DAS Elite?...it would still be fun to tinker and see how sweet I could get it shooting with the one simple but most important move I knew it needed..."Bring The Plunger Inward A Full Rev"...so I did...I'm also lashing myself into this rig but I hate finger slings...(they are a distraction to me)...wrist slings are what I usually go with but I made this for myself a couple years back...it's a "Wrist Leash" I made out of a leather thong and the tip of a deer antler...and this allowed me to "Tuck My fingers" with confidence I wouldn't lose the bow and was real pleased seeing my arrows fly and strike too center in a nice softball sized group at 20yds...not bad for not even having 30 shots off this bow or that Bateman tab that is not even close to "Broke-In" yet...










and just as I was about to upload the above pic and post it too this thread?.....the doorbell rang and?....



















The F7's have Landed! 

34# Shorts...Purchased on clearance for $399...I was looking some high end Carbon/Wood limbs (as I have discovered I prefer wood core instead of foam core) and found these on sale...They look great!...but we'll see how they feel and shoot off the 27" Gillo.


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## JINKSTER

Guess I'm posting too myself in this forum as well...oh well....Limbs don't fit the bolts....got some light sanding and fitting to do.


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## TomB

I am enjoying it. Thanks for sharing.


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## limbwalker

JINKSTER said:


> Guess I'm posting too myself in this forum as well...oh well....Limbs don't fit the bolts....got some light sanding and fitting to do.


Is it the limbs and bolts, or the dovetails and the dovetail fittings? I had to take a file to my dovetail fittings on my 27" G1 otherwise they would get stuck.


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## sprinke

limbwalker said:


> Is it the limbs and bolts, or the dovetails and the dovetail fittings? I had to take a file to my dovetail fittings on my 27" G1 otherwise they would get stuck.


Can you elaborate on this, John? And what is the dovetail fitting, exactly? The dovetail is on the limb, and the dovetail fitting is the slot on the riser it slides into?


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## JINKSTER

TomB said:


> I am enjoying it. Thanks for sharing.


Thanks TomB!.... dang...at least somebody is reading my crap. 



limbwalker said:


> Is it the limbs and bolts, or the dovetails and the dovetail fittings? I had to take a file to my dovetail fittings on my 27" G1 otherwise they would get stuck.


I'm not sure yet limbwalker...I'm at work right now and when I leave to go home?...I'll be taking some precision measuring tools with me...mics, digital calipers and inspection grade wax... (I've been an aerospace machinist for 3o years...all military R&D type)...I know this....I had my custom built for my DAS Elite amberboo core/glass limbs on this G1 riser and they were a tight fit...I had the limb bolts at 1 turn out from bottom when I installed them 2 days ago and when I tried to remove them last night?...no dice...it was like trying to take the limbs off a one piece bow by hand until?...I gave up trying and started to remove the limb bolts and as soon as I took 1 more turn off (for a total of 2 turns out now) I felt everything relax...the limb bolts and the limbs...on both ends.

But this appeared to be a "Binding Condition" between the double flanged limb bolt and the limb base thickness...the thinner bases of the new F7's seem far more willing to engage the dual flanges but also seem reluctant at the U-notch/bolt diameter interface...but I will measure and inspect the dovetail fitment as well.

Thanks for the heads up on that!


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## Rotor

Will be very interested in your measurements.
Glenn


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## limbwalker

sprinke said:


> Can you elaborate on this, John? And what is the dovetail fitting, exactly? The dovetail is on the limb, and the dovetail fitting is the slot on the riser it slides into?


Yes. 

The throat of the dovetail insert or fitting in the riser limb pocket is a little tight for some ILF dovetails to fit into. So I removed it, and then filed some material off each edge and problem solved. I also drilled a shallow divot in the end of the groove for the detente pin to "click" into so I knew when it was seated.


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## limbwalker

The double flange bolt is a safety precaution so you don't unscrew the limb bolt too far. But yea, I don't like it either.


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## JINKSTER

Rotor said:


> Will be very interested in your measurements.
> Glenn





limbwalker said:


> The double flange bolt is a safety precaution so you don't unscrew the limb bolt too far. But yea, I don't like it either.


Okay Gents....the verdicts are in....so lets review...and just to recap?....this is how "I Thought" ..my Robertfishes...."Black Glass/Amberboo Core"...custom limbs (built for my DAS Elite)...were "Well Seated"...










and this is how my new Hoyt F7's Limbs appeared "Obviously NOT Well Seated"...










Now one of the "Multiple Problems" going on here was the fact that my Custom Limbs have "Fat Bases"...this is not the fault of anyone...it's how Robert makes his Santos Rosewood Base Wedges and reinforces them with an abundance of black glass...measured against each other?...the custom limb bases were .070" thicker than the Hoyt F7 limb bases....










Roberts limbs have a hook on them that far exceeds that of standard limbs such as when bumped up against SF Premium+ Carbons...I was surprised to see that the F7's seemed only slightly less aggressive in side profile...










But For/Aft Profile exhibited a marked difference but then again?...I know of no other limb that has as much profile this way as Robert puts into his...they taper out too very broad through the working area and then taper down to noticeably narrower towards the tips.... 










and this is where I had to remind myself..."Wait!...I'm NOT DOING a Limb Review here!" LOL!....so getting back on track?...I was actually pleased to see that the damage my ignorance caused was minimal...resulting in some very light superficial indentations maybe .005" deep (at most) undoubtedly caused by the lower 2nd flange of the Gillo G1's Limb Bolts...on...these fatter than normal limb bases...I could trickle some super glue in there and dress it away but I'm not going to bother and feel it nothing to fret about...but these limbs will immediately go back on the DAS Elite riser of mine they were intended for....










and now?...for what you all have been waiting for.... 










*THE NUMBERS:*

********************************************

GILLO G1 Limb Bolt Diameters: Both measured in at (.3755")

Hoyt F7 U-Notch Width: .371"

Roberts Custom Limb U-Notch Width: .377

********************************************

GILLO G1 ILF Slot Widths: Measured at (.431)

Hoyt F7 ILF Stud Width: (.433")

Roberts Custom Limb W&W ILF Stud Width: (.4305")


So?...Looks like a 2 fold problem with fitting up the F7's too this riser and I need to...

1. Sand about .003" off both sides of the F7 U-Notches and?...

2. File a a thou or two out of the G1's ILF Slots.

And ya know what?...no biggy...not at all...especially for what the G1 offers in a riser and I'd definitely rather have this "Too Tight" fitment problem than "Too Loose"...and I guess nobody in the industry wants to be "That Guy" who made anything "Too Loose" and I don't blame them because at the end of the day?....with minimal work?...my high end rig is going to be "Hand Fit" and..."Tight". 

But I ain't doing it tonight! LOL!...I have a Concealed Weapons Class I need to be at tomorrow morning so maybe tomorrow afternoon I'll break out the stones, files and sandpaper....put on a pot of coffee....and take my sweet time custom fitting this rig together.

Have a great one folks and Be Blessed! L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## Vittorio

It is simply impossible to make a dovetail slot that can accept easily all limbs studs in the market as there are some very diffent from others. And same for limbs bolts diameter in relationship to the U size of all existing ILF limbs. 

U-----> you wil have to file a bit the innner part of it, sometime just removing the inner varnish only. 
Dovetail ---> if you are sure that side grains are not too much tight (just remove the grains from one side only and check if limb can go in and out properly), you may either file a bit the alu slot of the alignement plate of the riser or the sides of the dovetail stud on limbs. To fit my old Sky limbs in my personal G1 I have choosen second option as brass studs were very very large. 

After many years of problems with a lot of risers of any price, we had to decide if our riser was going to be tight or loose for limbs fitting. Decision was automatic, as tight can be made loose, but not easily vicersa. If you have used many times an luminium strip from a Coke can to make loose dovetails and loose U slots to fit on many different risers as I have done in my life, you will understand what I mean. 
Very tight fitting for ILF limbs is a quality, in our opinion, and fitting has for sure to be adjusted by user if tolerancies combinations can't immediately allow limbs to fit. The target should ever be get stable limbs inside the slots!
Limbs tested with no problems directly by us on several units:
- SF premium, SF Elite Carbon
- W&W EX, Wiavis, RCX, Winex
- Kaya K7, K5
- Fivics RX, FX, Titan
- Gillo Ghost Carbon limbs


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## JINKSTER

Vittorio said:


> It is simply impossible to make a dovetail slot that can accept easily all limbs studs in the market as there are some very diffent from others. And same for limbs bolts diameter in relationship to the U size of all existing ILF limbs.
> 
> U-----> you wil have to file a bit the innner part of it, sometime just removing the inner varnish only.
> Dovetail ---> if you are sure that side grains are not too much tight (just remove the grains from one side only and check if limb can go in and out properly), you may either file a bit the alu slot of the alignement plate of the riser or the sides of the dovetail stud on limbs. To fit my old Sky limbs in my personal G1 I have choosen second option as brass studs were very very large.
> 
> After many years of problems with a lot of risers of any price, we had to decide if our riser was going to be tight or loose for limbs fitting. Decision was automatic, as tight can be made loose, but not easily vicersa. If you have used many times an luminium strip from a Coke can to make loose dovetails and loose U slots to fit on many different risers as I have done in my life, you will understand what I mean.
> Very tight fitting for ILF limbs is a quality, in our opinion, and fitting has for sure to be adjusted by user if tolerancies combinations can't immediately allow limbs to fit. The target should ever be get stable limbs inside the slots!
> Limbs tested with no problems directly by us on several units:
> - SF premium, SF Elite Carbon
> - W&W EX, Wiavis, RCX, Winex
> - Kaya K7, K5
> - Fivics RX, FX, Titan
> - Gillo Ghost Carbon limbs


Vittorio...I have only two words for you...."GREAT JOB"!!! :thumbs_up

I'm very happy and feel extremely fortunate to have one of your 27" G1's!


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## OlyShoot

Jinkster I'm reading everything and this is really good stuff. I'm interested how a professional machinist ( no one better) takes on these adjustments as sooner or later we all are going to have to do this if we mix brands of equipment


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## sprinke

Thanks Bill, I really appreciated the detailed examination (and pictures) as I can use them to compare to my own situation with my G1 (in another thread). 

In my case, I removed the dovetail fitting from the riser entirely so that I could look at it up close while seating the dovetail bolt on it. My conclusion there: my limbs' dovetails fit just fine and there is nothing about the dovetail that is preventing the limbs from sliding all the way in.

And since my limbs when seated look similar to the pic you posted of the Robertfishes, I'm going to assume that mine are too.


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## sprinke

FWIW, this is what my SF Axiom Plus mediums ($70!) look like in the pocket.
I took it from this angle so that you can see how much space is left between the bottom of the "U" and the limb bolt.
Is this type of space normal/acceptable?


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## Arron

Just wondering Bill If instead of filing down parts you might look at returning the F7's and taking a look at the other limbs Vittorio listed as a good fit??
SF premium, SF Elite Carbon
- W&W EX, Wiavis, RCX, Winex
- Kaya K7, K5
- Fivics RX, FX, Titan
- Gillo Ghost Carbon limbs


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## JINKSTER

Arron said:


> Just wondering Bill If instead of filing down parts you might look at returning the F7's and taking a look at the other limbs Vittorio listed as a good fit??
> SF premium, SF Elite Carbon
> - W&W EX, Wiavis, RCX, Winex
> - Kaya K7, K5
> - Fivics RX, FX, Titan
> - Gillo Ghost Carbon limbs


Knowing what I know now?...that could've had an effect on my decision making (up front) but....I doubt that (even if I had it to do over again) it would've changed things and here's why...

I had placed a few demands upon myself for this new set of limbs for the 27" G1...

Demand #1: They would be "Shorts"

Demand #2: They would be "Wood Core"

Demand #3: They would contain high end Woven CF (with those wood cores) and NOT JUST "UD CF"

Demand #4: I wanted poundage to be in the 32#-34# range. 

Demand #5: They would come from LAS

Oddly enough out of the list of limbs Vittorio cited?...I almost went for what were the last set of Fivics Titan Pure Limbs that LAS had on Clearance...$299...and they were "Shorts" but?...they were also 30# shorts...which on this 27" riser would make them 28# Shorts...I went the extra $100 for the 34# Short F7's and "still"?...

glad I did.


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## gster123

Loving the thread. I have a G1 in Olympic rig format, it's awesome.

Got to ask, Gillo Ghost Carbon Limbs???? Interested.


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## granite14

Make sure the side limb adjustment screws are not locked down too tight. Loosen those and lock the outer one just enough to keep alignment. If too tight, it pinches the ILF fitting and makes for a binding like condition. 

My Hoyt 720 limbs fit on the bolt, just as the F7s do. Didn't really have a problem with it, the limb is still resisted by the flange, just not as much of it as other limbs. Now shooting Win&Win which go on further.


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## JINKSTER

Here's what I started with...










Decided I'd be best off "Removing Them" for the work so I didn't risk any slips of the hand or scarring up the riser itself...











filed and stoned them out too .435"










where they were still like a "Light Press Fit" barely sliding in and out with finger pressure....










but the F7's have Landed!  










and if nothing else?...is going to result in one fine looking rig that far exceeds my shooting skills and abilities! 










I just got home from a 3 hour concealed carry class and am going to relax and take my sweet time setting things up...thanks for the pointers and info and L8R, Bill.


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## limbwalker

Nice work. This is what I ended up doing and no problems since.


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## JINKSTER

limbwalker said:


> Nice work. This is what I ended up doing and no problems since.


Thank you limbwalker! 

Well?...I wound up taking just a thousandth or two "more" off of everywhere mainly because everything being spot-on like that?...was just still too tight for my liking...where not only did everything have to be in dead alignment to go in but also took a bit more of a struggle to get it there...I wanted it tight but...not so tight that I look like the dork with "fitment issues" every time I assemble and dis-assemble my bow and that extra thous or two off made every go together and come apart slick as a whistle but?...still nice and tight! 

And now that the limbs were properly fit and seated?...the string and BH started getting along just dandy...(where the lowest BH I could get previously was 9"s on a string with zero twists)....so for starters?...I put 20 twists in the 8190 endless loop and that gave me an initial BH of 8 7/8ths....(just to see where things were now)...so I took 5 twists back off to get my desired 8 3/4" BH on this now officially 68" AMO Bow.

With both limb bolts locked down on these 34# shorts?....this resulted in a Max Poundage of 34#s on this 27" G1.

Tiller was 7 3/8ths" up top and 7 1/8th" down below...1/4" Positive...and here's how she looks all fit and assembled...




















I did get to shoot it today (tuning will begin tomorrow) and it looks like my hanging golf ball?.....










is in for a rough life from here on out! LOL!










and here's how she's shot "The First Five"....






Thanks for watching and all your help! L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## rustycase

What a nice bow!
I'm enjoying your setup tale.
rc


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## arc2x4

Great thread on the Gillo riser and the need to make adjustments so ILF standard limbs fit.
I had the same issues as Jinkster with my G1 when I purchased it back in May.
I also purchased a set of the Fivics Titan limbs from Lancaster on closeout. 

They did not fit my Gillo either. The main issue is that the U slot of the limb is in spec and hence too small for the oversize bolt of the Gillo.
Since the Fivics limbs fit my Bernardini Cobra riser perfectly I decided not to adjust them for the Gillo.

Jinkster your rig looks great.

LAS currently has a closeout special on these risers. I have to wonder why? Could it be because many of their customers had limb fit issues and returned the risers? Not everyone is a Machinist or willing to diagnose a problem that prevents them from seating a set of standard ILF limbs that fit other risers they own without issue.

If the tight fit is a design feature then there should be mention of this and the procedure for proper fitting and adjustment in the litterature and the manual included with the Gillo riser.


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## arc2x4

Well it looks like Lancaster Archery Supply no longer carries any of the G1 model as they only list the G2.


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## JINKSTER

rustycase said:


> What a nice bow!
> I'm enjoying your setup tale.
> rc


Thank you very much rustycase! :thumbs_up

I sure am proud of it and feel extremely blessed to own such! 



arc2x4 said:


> Great thread on the Gillo riser and the need to make adjustments so ILF standard limbs fit.
> I had the same issues as Jinkster with my G1 when I purchased it back in May.
> I also purchased a set of the Fivics Titan limbs from Lancaster on closeout.
> 
> They did not fit my Gillo either. The main issue is that the U slot of the limb is in spec and hence too small for the oversize bolt of the Gillo.
> Since the Fivics limbs fit my Bernardini Cobra riser perfectly I decided not to adjust them for the Gillo.
> 
> Jinkster your rig looks great.
> 
> LAS currently has a closeout special on these risers. I have to wonder why? Could it be because many of their customers had limb fit issues and returned the risers? Not everyone is a Machinist or willing to diagnose a problem that prevents them from seating a set of standard ILF limbs that fit other risers they own without issue.
> 
> If the tight fit is a design feature then there should be mention of this and the procedure for proper fitting and adjustment in the litterature and the manual included with the Gillo riser.





arc2x4 said:


> Well it looks like Lancaster Archery Supply no longer carries any of the G1 model as they only list the G2.


arc2X4...Thank You very much for the compliments on my rig! 

And now?...maybe I can share a few things here with you that may shed some light on looking at the initial offerings of the Gillo G1 with a slightly different perspective. 

First I was quite taken when I read your statement of...*"and the manual included with the Gillo riser."*...why?...because unless I missed it?...I didn't get one with mine...just the information card about Michele Frangilli's professional archery career.

And the reason I didn't sense anything odd about this is because my mind automatically jumped too the conclusion of...

_"Well I guess they figure folks dropping this sort of ching on this high end of a riser don't need instructions! LOL!"_

and I don't say that to offend you...just share what literally went through my mind when I realized the absence of such.

The second thing I'd like to share with you is this little story...

John Wert (my bud I usually deal with at LAS) was out of town all last week...so I got a guy named "Tom" when I went to order my Hoyt F7 limbs (on clearance for $399) and when I mentioned too Tom that the riser I was mounting them too was a Gillo G1?...he immediately told me...

*"Those limbs won't fit THAT riser."*

I responded with.....

_"Look dude...these are Grand Prix limbs and my Gillo is a ILF riser...they'll fit!"_

At that point he insisted they wouldn't and I figured I had a rookie on my hands so I told him I'd call back later and get someone else to speak with...well I did, and I did and they sure sold'em too me! LOL!

and boy howdy am I glad I didn't get on the forums and unleash about that experience! LOL! (as a little voice in my head told me not to...and I think it was God! LOL!)...and Both He & Tom were trying to look out for me!....Thanks Guys! 

My point?...I wouldn't be too hard on the Frangilli's OR LAS as I'm looking at things this way...

This first run of G1's could be viewed as any other "New Too The Market" product...I've known many folks who think themselves wise NEVER buying a "First Model Year" vehicle...why?...they wait a year or two until all the bugs are worked out and things are running smoothly as not only is it a new design?....but you also have skilled labor making an item they've NEVER produced before...tooling and outside services included...so taking that into account?...I'm thinking the Frangilli's really weren't that far off the mark with the plated finish diameter of their limb bolts coming out .0005" (5 ten thousandths or?...1/20th of a human hair) oversize when it was Hoyt who provided me with F7's who's .370" width U-Notch was .005" Tight as compared to the current standards of...










Then take into account that there's some serious variances in the industry with all things ILF...Oh they have "Standard Dimensions"....but what's missing is...

*"TOLERANCES"*

so these leaves the entire industry floundering with what?...+/- Nothing? 

and then who pays for *"The Lack Of Due Diligence"* in that respect?...correct answer?...EVERYBODY!

From the Frangillis & LAS who are now faced with taking upwards of a 40% cut in retail (which most likely trashed any profit margin they may have had and wrote it off as "Lessons Learned") too the end users who are left sitting at their kitchen tables with upwards of $1,500 worth of gear that won't fit together and?...LAS (holding the bag so to speak) trying to market stuff that actually "Fits Together"....<Insert *"Thank You For Trying Tom!!!"* here! LOL!>

as Tom probably knew full well that any of W&W's limbs would actually fit where the Hoyt F7's I was so bullheaded about ordering wouldn't.

And arc2X4?...I'm not trying to put you down...quite the opposite....which is why I'm ending this off with some thoughts (I Think) may "Lift You Up"...cause I'm looking at things this way....

I wound up getting a riser that for all intensive purposes?...(with the $59 BB weight?)....is the equivalent of a "Stolid Bull Vanquish" (at $1,200) and/or a "Greenhorn Sirius" (Currently Un-Obtainium)......"Class Of Riser"...and I got it for a fire sale price of $440 with free shipping.

I also wound up getting a $700 set of limbs (The likes of which won the summer games in London not too long ago) for $399 with free shipping!

Now think about that for a second...because for $850?.....just a few bucks more than a new Bear Custom Kodiak TD?....I have a rig who's riser was designed with the input of "The Most Titled Archer In The World" and can transform from Top End BB too Top End Olympic Rig with the turn of a few threads and at the end of the day?...for what was just a couple hours of analyzing, measuring, filing and sanding?...I have a brand new world class rig for 1/2 off!...and I'll TAKE IT!....ALL DAY LONG!...cause the way I see it?...it's the only time in my life I ever made about $350 per hour!!! 

Hope that makes you feel better and now onto this morning tuning session where I figured a great place to start would be "The Beginning"...and for me?...since I did modify the ILF hardware and these are new limbs?....that starts here...










Nailed it!...oh and Mr. Ren Sarns?...despite popular belief?....I don't always "Talk"...sometimes?....I "Listen"....notice anything different? 










and...Thanks! Bill.


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## Vittorio

Simple reason why Lancaster was discounting the G1-27 and no more listing the standard G1 in web site, is that they are both discontinued (G1_27 immediately and G1-25 by the end of the year), replaced by the G1L 27, the G1L 25 and thecoming soon G1M 25.


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## JINKSTER

Vittorio said:


> Simple reason why Lancaster was discounting the G1-27 and no more listing the standard G1 in web site, is that they are both discontinued (G1_27 immediately and G1-25 by the end of the year), replaced by the G1L 27, the G1L 25 and thecoming soon G1M 25.


Whoa!...that would mean that I literally...

"Got the last original 27" Gillo G1 ever sold."

why am I feeling like really happy about that? :laugh:


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## Vittorio

JINKSTER said:


> .......
> My point?...I wouldn't be too hard on the Frangilli's OR LAS as I'm looking at things this way...
> 
> This first run of G1's could be viewed as any other "New Too The Market" product...I've known many folks who think themselves wise NEVER buying a "First Model Year" vehicle...why?...they wait a year or two until all the bugs are worked out and things are running smoothly as not only is it a new design?....but you also have skilled labor making an item they've NEVER produced before...tooling and outside services included...so taking that into account?...I'm thinking the Frangilli's really weren't that far off the mark with the plated finish diameter of their limb bolts coming out .0005" (5 ten thousandths or?...1/20th of a human hair) oversize when it was Hoyt who provided me with F7's who's .370" width U-Notch was .005" Tight as compared to the current standards of...
> 
> ......


There is no difference at all from first to second lot of G1-27 production, design and tolerancies have not changed by a single bit among them. ILF parts are exactly same for G1-25, G1-27, G2 and Ghost 19. And mechanical tolerancies have not changed during production until now for any of our risers, as we think they are the right ones for the majiority of the limbs in the market.


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## JINKSTER

Vittorio said:


> There is no difference at all from first to second lot of G1-27 production, design and tolerancies have not changed by a single bit among them. ILF parts are exactly same for G1-25, G1-27, G2 and Ghost 19. And mechanical tolerancies have not changed during production until now for any of our risers, as we think they are the right ones for the majiority of the limbs in the market.


I don't believe anyone is disputing, challenging or even questioning that Vittorio..I know I'm not.

But wouldn't it make things easier on everyone if Hoyts ILf studs were the same size as W&W/SF, Uuhka, MK, Fivics and all the rest?

You did a stellar job of fitment for the W&W products and that was probably a wise move....had you loosened things up to fit every manufacturers limbs?...folks would be complaining of "Sloppy Fitment" and the associated issues that comes with that.

I for one applaud your efforts! :thumbs_up

and folks wasted no time cleaning house at LAS when they found out that the Gillo G1's were on sale! 

Can you elaborate more on what the "L" designation stands for?...did you Lighten them up?


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## sprinke

I thought L was "Luxury" ... ?


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## Unk Bond

Hello Jinkster
Enjoying your thread and video.
Just returned to AT after a short break.

Oh my-my Jinks 
You can't give all the credit here to your new nice new bow.

Since I left and returned.
Your form , Your more intense aiming, and shot execution with your follow though. Has excelled. :thumbs_up
Thanks to you, I still have my Nilo and loving ever minuet shooting it. But do have ONE eye on that new G2 :wink: [ Later my old friend


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## arc2x4

List of the limbs I have tried that do not fit without adjustment to the U notch and or the dovetail fitting of the riser:

Fivics Titan wood core New 2015 model

MK Vera II wood core 2015

Uukha Ex1 2013

Samick BF extreme

Samick Trad tech Extreme Carbon (my son's bow)

Now we also Know that Hoyt Limbs.

and possibly Border limbs, from other reports do not fit out of the box.

My W&W XQ-1 limbs that have lots of wear did fit with no adjustment.

Has anyone tried a new set of W&W Limbs to see if they have the same issue????

So if you buy a Gillo be warned that you will have to do some fitting to use any of the Limb brands listed above....

Is this a big deal? well not for me once I figured out what the problem was, but for others selling the riser and for users that are not willing to see the riser and limbs as a kit that needs to be adjusted it may be a deal killer that results in a return.

I have not heard or seen any other brand of riser that had these issues posted about in Archery Talk in the last 5 years.


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## arc2x4

By the way the L designated Risers are for sale currently at Alt Services, L includes gold colored hardware, and a riser bag, and could also include a special Gold or Chrome colored anodizing job depending on the model. There is also now the M designation which has a matt finish.

I am not sure if the "L" Vittorio refers to is some other engineering change.


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## TER

My Gillo G1L smoothly and easily accepts my 2014 Fivics FX-1 limbs, TWO different sets of 2015 Fivics Titan wood core limbs, SF Axiom Plus limbs, 2008 W&W Winex limbs, and Samick Privilege limbs. They all easily fully snap in. I guess I've gotten lucky buying limbs made to their proper specs. 

The G1L is currently out on the market and information about it is all over the internet.


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## limbwalker

Jinkster, I'm glad to know my dog isn't the only dog that digs up my back yard. LOL.


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## JINKSTER

limbwalker said:


> Jinkster, I'm glad to know my dog isn't the only dog that digs up my back yard. LOL.


LOL!...meet "Daisy"...she's a 10 month old Black mouth Cur that was never registered but comes from great lineage who I bought at 9 weeks old for the just this side of a rescue dog fee of $100...the breeder was a low brow type and I could've easily and legally pressured him out of the $100 "re-homing fee" he was requesting but appeared to me he was hitting things hard enough. 

She digs my backyard up and buries it again about once a week! LOL!...but that's okay with me...it's her backyard as well and besides?....I haven't had any red ant mounds appear since her arrival...for some strange reason. LOL!


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## JINKSTER

Unk Bond said:


> Hello Jinkster
> Enjoying your thread and video.
> Just returned to AT after a short break.
> 
> Oh my-my Jinks
> You can't give all the credit here to your new nice new bow.
> 
> Since I left and returned.
> Your form , Your more intense aiming, and shot execution with your follow though. Has excelled. :thumbs_up
> Thanks to you, I still have my Nilo and loving ever minuet shooting it. But do have ONE eye on that new G2 :wink: [ Later my old friend


Thanks Unk and good to see you back posting & shooting! :thumbs_up 

Do you still have Zeus hanging around or did he hit the road?


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## Unk Bond

JINKSTER said:


> Thanks Unk and good to see you back posting & shooting! :thumbs_up
> 
> Do you still have Zeus hanging around or did he hit the road?


=============
Hello
Yepper. Zeus is in use and now with a set of border limbs.
Zeus has a long time home. I know beauty is in the of the beholder.
But that riser design and its weight locations. And shot performance, will make me think a long time before replacing Zeus. Again thanks. [ Later


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## arc2x4

I want to thank Jinkster for his machinist approach to the limb fit issue.
Tolerance is the key to all of this. I suspect that the combination of tight specifications for the dovetail fitting in the riser and the machining tolerance specifications are the reason behind the fact that some folks who purchased the riser had no issues with limb fit and others found that the dovetail fit was too tight.
When a machine shop manufactures a part they have to bear in mind that the cutting tools will wear as a production run procedes wear means the tool gets smaller as it wears and gets resharpened. At some point the tolerance specs dictate that the tool is too small to make a proper sized cut. So the first dovetail fittings made with the new tool bit may actually have a larger slot than the parts made latter in the production run.

Yesterday I removed the dovetail fittings from the riser and enlarged the width of the dovetail slot by a very small amount with a file and some 220 sand paper. The result is that now all of my different limbs fit and snap fully into the limb pockets with full fork engagement on the limb bolt.


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## Unk Bond

Hello:
Guys a thought just hit me. Yes I know its dangerous ha ha. :wink:

The G2 dose the same thing apply with some limbs. Thanks [ Later


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## limbwalker

arc2x4 said:


> I want to thank Jinkster for his machinist approach to the limb fit issue.
> Tolerance is the key to all of this. I suspect that the combination of tight specifications for the dovetail fitting in the riser and the machining tolerance specifications are the reason behind the fact that some folks who purchased the riser had no issues with limb fit and others found that the dovetail fit was too tight.
> When a machine shop manufactures a part they have to bear in mind that the cutting tools will wear as a production run procedes wear means the tool gets smaller as it wears and gets resharpened. At some point the tolerance specs dictate that the tool is too small to make a proper sized cut. So the first dovetail fittings made with the new tool bit may actually have a larger slot than the parts made latter in the production run.
> 
> Yesterday I removed the dovetail fittings from the riser and enlarged the width of the dovetail slot by a very small amount with a file and some 220 sand paper. The result is that now all of my different limbs fit and snap fully into the limb pockets with full fork engagement on the limb bolt.


Yes, this is really all it takes. I realize not everyone is comfortable or familiar with using basic hand tools, so I suppose it's too much to expect that users will just make simple 5 min. adjustments and solve all their fitment problems, but threads like these will certainly help. I guess I was just too dumb to know any different, and I've been "cutting and pasting" on takedown recurves since the 90's. I've never done anything I felt would make a bow unsafe to shoot, but on the other hand I've sure saved a lot of bows from the auction block or trash can with just a few minutes hand work with a file or sandpaper.


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## JINKSTER

arc2x4 said:


> I want to thank Jinkster for his machinist approach to the limb fit issue.
> Tolerance is the key to all of this. I suspect that the combination of tight specifications for the dovetail fitting in the riser and the machining tolerance specifications are the reason behind the fact that some folks who purchased the riser had no issues with limb fit and others found that the dovetail fit was too tight.
> When a machine shop manufactures a part they have to bear in mind that the cutting tools will wear as a production run procedes wear means the tool gets smaller as it wears and gets resharpened. At some point the tolerance specs dictate that the tool is too small to make a proper sized cut. So the first dovetail fittings made with the new tool bit may actually have a larger slot than the parts made latter in the production run.
> 
> Yesterday I removed the dovetail fittings from the riser and enlarged the width of the dovetail slot by a very small amount with a file and some 220 sand paper. The result is that now all of my different limbs fit and snap fully into the limb pockets with full fork engagement on the limb bolt.


Thank you and it's been my pleasure to share! 



limbwalker said:


> Yes, this is really all it takes. I realize not everyone is comfortable or familiar with using basic hand tools, so I suppose it's too much to expect that users will just make simple 5 min. adjustments and solve all their fitment problems, but threads like these will certainly help. I guess I was just too dumb to know any different, and I've been "cutting and pasting" on takedown recurves since the 90's. I've never done anything I felt would make a bow unsafe to shoot, but on the other hand I've sure saved a lot of bows from the auction block or trash can with just a few minutes hand work with a file or sandpaper.


Thanks limbwalker....I'm really enjoying this rig and couldn't be happier with my decision to try shorts on a 27" riser...I'm also quite pleased with the F7's....the draw cycle feels consistently smooth yet very connected and I can tell they are loading up real well and they end with a very punchy delivery and very stable and here's why I say that...

It's been my experience that a heavy mass riser seems to more readily separate the stable from the unstable as the heavy riser will put the lower poundage glass/wood limbs to the test and if their tips are not so stable and prone to noodling?...the draw will have an "unsure feeling" where things are a bit vague as to what straight up and straight back is draw wise...and this 27" Gillo with a 2# BB weight is like a tank so?....I was extremely impressed that these 34# F7's yielded such a stable defined draw especially off this massive stud of a riser and doing "Hand Twist Test" when strung on the limb tips?...they are extremely resistant to any twisting and almost "longbow'ish" feeling with regards to torsional stability...I'm digging it...$6 Saunders weather rest and all! LOL!


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## lscotti

This is a veeery nice riser! Made in Italy... :thumbs_up


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## JINKSTER

lscotti said:


> This is a veeery nice riser! Made in Italy... :thumbs_up


Thank you Iscotti! :thumbs_up 

and now a little catching up...

I have 3 bows of all different flavors...my 56"/46# Big Jim Thunderchild 2pc Hybrid...an original 21" ILF DAS Elite with custom made Amberboo/Black Glass Limbs which makes a 62"/42# Bow and this 27" Gillo with 34# F7 Shorts making a 68"/34# bow and maybe it because my lightest bow is of the highest draw weight and my heaviest bow is of the lowest draw weight or?...maybe it's just because it's my newest toy or?...maybe it's because the Gillo sits my hand like a freaking sniper rifle and I have forever and a day at full draw before dropping the hammer but despite loving all my bows deeply?...I find myself reaching for the G1 night after night and it sure is one heck of a rig! 

Last night I had 100gr screw-ins in my full length .700 spine GT Ultralights and while it seemed tuned?...the arrows had this weird thing going on where they weren't corkscrewing (cause I would see some sort of consistent motion with that) but they were exhibiting this (best I can describe cause I never seen such before)....

*"Squiggly Squirmy Flight"*

there was no consistency or predictability about it...imagine mad snakes with feathers...like the arrows had so much energy in them they just didn't know what to do with it yet the nocks where staying true too flight...no fishtailing...no porpoising....flying right down the middle...and the bare shaft was in fact grouping with the fletched...



















so right at the end of the evening last night?...I dropped 15grs of point weight on the bare shaft and exchanged the 100gr point for an 85gr point and it still flew right with the pack but a bit of the squirmyness went away...so?...today I called John at LAS and I now have a dozen 80gr glue-in points coming that along with dropping 20grs of point weight?....I also lose the 12gr threaded insert effectively stripping 32grs of point weight off the arrows...continued...


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## JINKSTER

*continued....*

So tonight?...I also decided I "still" really don't care for finger slings and by far prefer a wrist sling (which is all that is really needed with this tank anyway) cause for some reason?....with the finger sling I stretch the sling (for security) by spreading my fingers and when I do?...it puts tension in my bow hand and messes with my grip where I feel very comfy leaving my bow hand completely relaxed with the wrist sling...(personal preference there)...



















I also swapped all the points down from 100gr too 85gr screw-ins...










and I have a "new string line" developing in my tab....at pretty much the same exact angle as my string purchase with my glove and it's helping me adapt too, and like, the transition too the tab...










and the bows shooting awesome...










here I was going to show how my groups started opening up due to fatigue and am now wondering that since I will mostly be shooting NFAA if I shouldn't just lose the BB weight and go with a long stab/v-bar Oly type set-up to get more stability out of what would be a lighter rig and at about 7#'s?....this bow could stand to lose a pound or two if NFAA Field shooting is the plan and it is...and it was by happenstance that the camera caught the pristeen limb/string alignment I have going on with this rig so I figured I'd show that off as well. LOL!










Thanks for looking and L8R, Bill.


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## lscotti

arc2x4 said:


> I am not sure if the "L" Vittorio refers to is some other engineering change.


L means "lusso": riser provided with wooden grip, refined hardware and special colours available. No technical changes compared to the standard version.


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## lscotti

sprinke said:


> I thought L was "Luxury" ... ?


That's right. :thumbs_up


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## JINKSTER

Mine is a 27" Gillo G1S.


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## JINKSTER

*Lil UPDATE:*

Been busy putting the Gillo G1/F7 rig through it's paces and several tuning configurations with a "getting to know you" demeanor and the only glitch I've encountered thus far is me...as it seems my 57 year old bow arm elbow just isn't up to handling what is extremely close to a 5# riser when the 790gm steel BB weight is mounted up...oh it sits there like limbs mounted too Plymouth Rock but I can only handle executing about 30-40 moderately paced solid shot executions before bow arm fatigue sets in starting out with that oh so familiar slight burning sensation of tennis elbow so before I hurt myself?...the 27oz BB weight came off and the stock cover went back on and I opted for a <12" stab....










but it's still a real handsome rig...










I've since even removed the Vibracheck ShockX module from the stab and she's dancing a bit more after the shot but here's the lowdown...

*Pros:*

1. Way lighter with zero fear of it weighing to much to be an all day shooter.

2. The bow now ends the shot with a moderate yet immediate roll forward (like I love them to do)

3. General Handling Characteristics: seem much improved and far more Archer Friendly

*Cons:*

1. Yep...it exhibits a bit more "Float" when anchored at full draw and?

2. Somehow?...it feels like my limbs picked up that pound the riser lost! LOL!

but she's still shooting lights out! 






Thanks for looking and L8R, Bill.


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## JINKSTER

Oh...forgot to mention...

*My Arrow Specs:*

Full Length .700 spine GT Ultralights.

3X4" Feathers

30 1/2"s long from center of nock too end of CF.

269grs fletched w/ 80gr glue-ins.

and coming out of this 27" G1/F7 rig like bottle rockets on a guide wire at 33# OTF with a 27 1/2" DL from a 68" Rig comprised of a 27" riser running Shorts which is giving me a 8.15GPP.

Wish I had a chrono available cause the arrows aren't wasting much time at all getting there...matter fact?...this 34# rig is spitting those ultralights out much like my old first target model PSE Magna-Flight round e-wheelbow tossed 2014 X7's @ 198fps back in the mid '80's at 52#s....and maybe a touch faster! LOL!


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## lscotti

JINKSTER said:


> but it's still a real handsome rig...


I completely agree :tongue:


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## lscotti

JINKSTER said:


> 2. Somehow?...it feels like my limbs picked up that pound the riser lost! LOL!


What do you mean?


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## JINKSTER

lscotti said:


> What do you mean?


The draw weight felt just a hair stouter without the weight.


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## JINKSTER

lscotti said:


> I completely agree :tongue:


Thanks Iscotti! 

This was this morning after I finished making one of Rod Jenkins "Wrist/Finger Slings" up for myself...






and I Love IT!...Thanks Rod!


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## lscotti

JINKSTER said:


> Oh...forgot to mention...
> 
> *My Arrow Specs:*
> 
> Full Length .700 spine GT Ultralights.
> 
> 3X4" Feathers
> 
> 30 1/2"s long from center of nock too end of CF.
> 
> 269grs fletched w/ 80gr glue-ins.
> 
> and coming out of this 27" G1/F7 rig like bottle rockets on a guide wire at 33# OTF with a 27 1/2" DL from a 68" Rig comprised of a 27" riser running Shorts which is giving me a 8.15GPP.


I have watched carefully your action.
To me, you do not need such a long arrow and 4" feathers.
I would suggest you 29" arrow lenght and shafts with .800 spine, using 85-90gr points and 2" plastic vanes, giving less than 8GPP.
Then you would really see what your rig can do...



JINKSTER said:


> Wish I had a chrono available cause the arrows aren't wasting much time at all getting there...matter fact?...this 34# rig is spitting those ultralights out much like my old first target model PSE Magna-Flight round e-wheelbow tossed 2014 X7's @ 198fps back in the mid '80's at 52#s....and maybe a touch faster! LOL!


If in the 80's you had the Magna Flite without reinforced cables and with Dacron string, at short distance I would not be surprised if your current set-up is 10% faster.
At longer distances, let's say more than 40m, that's another story...


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## limbwalker

lscotti said:


> I have watched carefully your action.
> To me, you do not need such a long arrow and 4" feathers.
> I would suggest you 29" arrow lenght and shafts with .800 spine, using 85-90gr points and 2" plastic vanes, giving less than 8GPP.
> Then you would really see what your rig can do...
> 
> 
> If in the 80's you had the Magna Flite without reinforced cables and with Dacron string, at short distance I would not be surprised if your current set-up is 10% faster.
> At longer distances, let's say more than 40m, that's another story...


Really, since he's shooting barebow, arrow selection is going to based primarily on the round he is shooting first.


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## lscotti

limbwalker said:


> Really, since he's shooting barebow, arrow selection is going to based primarily on the round he is shooting first.


You mean that longer arrows can be helpful for aiming purpose?


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## limbwalker

lscotti said:


> You mean that longer arrows can be helpful for aiming purpose?


Precisely. And heavier arrows, etc.

A skilled barebow shooter will choose every piece of their equipment based on the specific round they are shooting.

Barebow may look like the "simple side" of the sport, but at the top levels, it is far more complex than recurve archery.


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## JINKSTER

lscotti said:


> I have watched carefully your action.
> To me, you do not need such a long arrow and 4" feathers.
> I would suggest you 29" arrow lenght and shafts with .800 spine, using 85-90gr points and 2" plastic vanes, giving less than 8GPP.
> Then you would really see what your rig can do...
> 
> 
> If in the 80's you had the Magna Flite without reinforced cables and with Dacron string, at short distance I would not be surprised if your current set-up is 10% faster.
> At longer distances, let's say more than 40m, that's another story...


Iscotti...limbwalker has it right...there's no sighting references on any of my bows and arrow length plays a significant role in my aiming system.

Also?...my arrows are GT Ultralights...the highest deflection they are made available in is .700 spine...and despite the fact they are 5/16ths class standard diameter arrows?...they only weigh 5.4GPI so chopping length wouldn't really yield a whole lot of weight savings and I'd probably gain it all back (if not more) by adding the point weight necessary for getting the dynamic spine back in line where it should be.

With today's super light CF shafting?....my game is....

The Longer The Arrow?...the less Point Weight I need to hit to tune which also results in the added bonus of enhanced aiming.

But you are correct regarding the 4" feathers...for increased downrange performance I would be far better served with small lightweight vanes and I'm thinking of trying some bohning impulse low profile vanes.

I just haven't gotten to that yet with this new rig.


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## lscotti

JINKSTER said:


> Iscotti...limbwalker has it right...there's no sighting references on any of my bows and arrow length plays a significant role in my aiming system.
> 
> Also?...my arrows are GT Ultralights...the highest deflection they are made available in is .700 spine...and despite the fact they are 5/16ths class standard diameter arrows?...they only weigh 5.4GPI so chopping length wouldn't really yield a whole lot of weight savings and I'd probably gain it all back (if not more) by adding the point weight necessary for getting the dynamic spine back in line where it should be.
> 
> With today's super light CF shafting?....my game is....
> 
> The Longer The Arrow?...the less Point Weight I need to hit to tune which also results in the added bonus of enhanced aiming.
> 
> But you are correct regarding the 4" feathers...for increased downrange performance I would be far better served with small lightweight vanes and I'm thinking of trying some bohning impulse low profile vanes.


Fair enough :thumbs_up



JINKSTER said:


> I just haven't gotten to that yet with this new rig.


You look so enthusiastic about your Gillo riser, that I am tempted to congratulate Michele and Vittorio Frangilli for their job... :wink:
Personally I am waiting for the launch of the shortest G5 Ghost 19", to match it with long limbs thus to get a 64" rig.


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## JINKSTER

lscotti said:


> Fair enough :thumbs_up
> 
> 
> You look so enthusiastic about your Gillo riser, that I am tempted to congratulate Michele and Vittorio Frangilli for their job... :wink:
> Personally I am waiting for the launch of the shortest G5 Ghost 19", to match it with long limbs thus to get a 64" rig.


The Frangilli's certainly have my most profound respect & appreciation for what it is they contributed too the archers of the world in their Gillo series of risers and especially the G1 and here's why...

They made available too the world of competitive archery a single well thought through and designed riser that...

1. Can be a World Class Olympic Riser (and compete with the best of them)

or?...

2. Can be a World Class BB Riser (that offers more weighting options & configurations than any other currently on the market)

Then take into consideration that they did so while offering it too the public at a price point that is 1/3rd too 1/2 the cost of many other risers in it's class.

And suddenly the beauty of what it is they contributed comes shining through! 

but wait!...it's not over yet cause...

*"Then Go Shoot It!"*

and Oh Dear Lord! :mg::dancing::BrownBear::banana::set1_applaud::RockOn:

sorry for the emoticon abuse but...that's how it is and mainly because the G1 is just so rock solid feeling at the shot no matter how it's configured.

My last riser I owned of this nature was a 25" W&W Inno Max...it retailed for nearly twice what this G1 cost me and while it was a fine riser?...it was not the master of adaptation that the Gillo G1 is.

So yeah....imnsho?....they did a helluva job!


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## lscotti

Nice review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKuvnX0UCVg&feature=youtu.be


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## lscotti

JINKSTER said:


> The Frangilli's certainly have my most profound respect & appreciation for what it is they contributed too the archers of the world in their Gillo series of risers and especially the G1 and here's why...
> 
> They made available too the world of competitive archery a single well thought through and designed riser that...
> 
> 1. Can be a World Class Olympic Riser (and compete with the best of them)
> 
> or?...
> 
> 2. Can be a World Class BB Riser (that offers more weighting options & configurations than any other currently on the market)
> 
> Then take into consideration that they did so while offering it too the public at a price point that is 1/3rd too 1/2 the cost of many other risers in it's class.


I don't want to mitigate your enthusiasm but, to be fair, I believe that Gillo riser was not exactly designed from scratch. On the other hand, it represents the evolution of other similar top-level products made in Italy, like Best Zenith and Best Mercury risers, famous in Europe not in USA. Michele knows very well these machines, in fact using them he has won "just several" medals and olympic titles along the years... In plain terms, Gillo's family of risers is nowadays a distilled of the field experience of the Frangilli's, matched with impressive Italian craftmanship, sold at a very competitive price. I am sorry for Hoyt, W&W, and all the others, to me this G1 is the best riser that money can buy, and the most effective and flexible product (barebow, FITA...) available in the marketplace. I am already excited looking forward to get my G5 Ghost 19"...


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## arc2x4

It's a fine riser but they really do need to address the limb fit issues so the average customer doesn't need to make adjustments with a file. Otherwise they should make their own limbs or specify which brands and models of limbs will fit the riser.


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## lscotti

arc2x4 said:


> It's a fine riser but they really do need to address the limb fit issues so the average customer doesn't need to make adjustments with a file.


I see no issues...



arc2x4 said:


> Otherwise they should make their own limbs or specify which brands and models of limbs will fit the riser.


Regarding this point, the user "Vittorio" (Mr. Vittorio Frangilli) answered on the last 7th November. See above in this thread.


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## JINKSTER

Most of the bus left is "Me"...but I'm real pleased with G1/F7 rig...


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## sprinke

JINKSTER said:


> Most of the bus left is "Me"...but I'm real pleased with G1/F7 rig...


I see you're using a short stab now. Did you take off the BB weight?


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## JINKSTER

sprinke said:


> I see you're using a short stab now. Did you take off the BB weight?


Yep...the steel monster was super sweet & stable but?....just too much weight for my old bow arm elbow. 

The good news?...I had sense enough to take it off before I hurt myself. 

The real good news?...the bow still shoots lights out. 

The Super Good News?....I can't wait to buy and try the new 400gm alum. BB weight that's coming out.


----------

