# I you're gonna be slow -- you'd better be good?



## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

Contemplating a target bow to play around with. Of two bows I'm looking at, projected speeds are 256 fps and 280 fps. I realize accurately judging yardage becomes more important as the fps is reduced. Difference in price between the two is roughly $100. 

No-brainier?

I shoot 3d to 40yds - unknown mostly. I'll also be shooting an NFAA-format 600 round format a few times this year. I would think the known yardage here makes arrow speed a non-issue. 

The target bows are 37 and 38" ATA models. My new hunting bow will be a 34" ATA bow. With the right stabilizer system, would I see any real benefits from the longer ATA bows? 

Anxious to hear what guys who shoot targets more than I do have to say.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Fit will be the most important thing gained.
Then some stability, and having the peep closer to your eye.
Much depends on your DL. If it's shorter, it won't be too bad. I have a longer DL, and won't go below 35" ATA, and I prefer 40"+

Which ever is the faster bow, looks like your getting an extra 10% speed without losing more than 1" ATA. I'd go with the faster one strictly for the unknown yardage 3-D.
I think over all, the longer bows will do you fine.

That said, I have a friend that just won the Badger state games 5spot bow hunter round with a 34" Hoyt Factor, and he has a DL of 32"!
Then again, he's picking up his new PCE XL in the morning.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

I can get the 280fps with a 34" ATA....... And not have to buy another bow. I could get 280fps out of a 37", also. 

My DL is "now" (lol) 28". I've shot 29" for years. The shorter DL feels great with the hinge.

I'd also like to NOT have to switch equipment back and forth between hunting and target accessories-- during hunting season (turkey).


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

isn't that the way it goes !. these new short bows are making liars, out of all of us "old codgers" that came up learning that ATA, makes a serious difference !.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

There is this 60X shooter that has come to a couple of our shoots recently. In one he shot a Conquest 4 and another he shot a short ATA bow (not sure what bow)... While he shot both bows quite well he did score 3-5 more X's with the Conquest. Of course this is a very small sampling.


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

It's really (the more I think about it) coming down to a convenience thing. I don't want to switch my target and hunting components out to turkey hunt. 

I'm close to making a deal on a bow. Not sure which one, still.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that, and most reasonably, the preferred difference in draw weights between hunting and target bows, is probably the main reason most guys that do both on a regular basis,... have dedicated setups.

my advice to you is, of the two or so bows you're considering for a target bow, to pick the bow that has the best combination of features and specs, that would establish it as a, "target bow" vs. a "hunting bow". ie., possibly lower draw weight range, a little more brace height and an longer ATA. every little bit helps in one way or another.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

JV NC said:


> It's really (the more I think about it) coming down to a convenience thing. I don't want to switch my target and hunting components out to turkey hunt.
> 
> I'm close to making a deal on a bow. Not sure which one, still.


If I hunted (which I don't yet but hope to one day), what I'd do is 2 copies of the same bow but setup with different draw weights as needed. Or just 1 bow and keep an allen wrench handy LOL.

For example, my Supra Max is essentially PSE's main target bow, but it also IBO's at something like 320-330fps which is pretty high. So it'd also make a good hunting bow at an appropriately higher draw weight. I'm shooting spots with it now at 30lbs, but it can max out at 40lbs which would be enough to hunt smaller game with.

So there are target bows that can do double-duty pretty well.

As for the ATA issue, I'm also an old long-ATA shellback who's been "converted" to the attitude of, meh.. not a big deal LOL. In fact, ATA turns out to be near the bottom of the list of items that really make a difference in terms of accuracy and forgiveness, etc. For me, it's pretty much only a functor of fit and at that I have quite a range I can handle comfortably. My PSE is 37" ATA for example and fits me like a glove, but I can still comfortably shoot my Hoyt which is a 45" ATA wheel bow....

LS


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

years ago, for entertainment a few buddies and would go rabbit hunting with our target rigs. one of their dads, had a cabinet shop with about a couple acres of tall grass field behind it. perfect for rabbit habitat !. we'd jump the rabbits and wait for them to stop, after a short sprint, the way rabbits do, then fire away.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

600 round what? Indoor? What draw weight are these bows? Multiple shots per station can weigh heavy on a person as opposed to 3D and up to several minutes between shots. 

I thought my TX4 with 33 1/2" almost Field worthy, but more probably for a Outdoor 900 round, 60, 50 and 40 yards. The only thing is I know my longer ata bows far better for such.

On the other hand, people think once you set up bow it won't do double duty or can't be turned down and still be effective. I know a few that shoot both "logs" and skinny arrows from their target bows. I've done it, but maybe not so drastically. I "detuned" my 3D bow, (295 fps) for Field. Back then the speed limit for NFAA was 280 fps. I got 282 fps with a heavier arrow and I did not change the tune of the bow. I took 2nd place with that bow. I used it again in a Outdoor 900 round to take 3rd place.
Of more recent times I shot small diameter arrows, .290", with my bow set up for .355" diameter arrows. Accuracy was outstanding for 20 yards and with only needing to sight in. So much for bow tuning when target is the game. Using fixed broadheads is different.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

ron w said:


> years ago, for entertainment a few buddies and would go rabbit hunting with our target rigs. one of their dads, had a cabinet shop with about a couple acres of tall grass field behind it. perfect for rabbit habitat !. we'd jump the rabbits and wait for them to stop, after a short sprint, the way rabbits do, then fire away.


Well assuming that one day I get strong enough to shoot my PSE at 40lbs, it may become a dual purpose hunting/spot bow. Or I may just get a second copy of it if I'm able to eventually save up the scratch to get another one. 

My Tribute, however, now that I've cracked the final nut on getting a good tune out of it, may assume spot bow duty. My previous comments having been said about ATA, it has some very good forgiveness aspects to it that are eeeever so slightly superior to my PSE. Namely, a super smushy back wall and very gentle draw cycle (very suitable for my old torn up upper body). It really is a little more forgiving of mistakes on the back end and it's superb for the PBT firing method I use with my hinges.... 

So I might end up with the dual bow thing after all. 

But back to the OP's post, I don't see any reason why just the one bow that has the best fit couldn't do double duty. ATA is way behind in terms of making a difference other things like IBO speed, comfort and fit, etc....

LS


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

I bought a used bowtech specialist. 

It'll work for what I need. I owned a constitution once. This is it's faster brother.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

JV NC said:


> I bought a used bowtech specialist.
> 
> It'll work for what I need. I owned a constitution once. This is it's faster brother.


Never owned a Bowtech or even seen one up close, but just looking at it on Bowtech's website it looks to me like an outstanding bow. Solid limbs even, which is even more of a plus IMO... You could probably shoot your entire career with it. I'm biased since spec wise it somewhat resembles my PSE, LOL, but IMO, looks like a superb choice.... I bet you'll love it.

LS


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

they are good bow. well built and solid feeling. their downfall, is that they've had some issues with limb reliability, somewhat more persistently than other companies. that said, my hunting bow is a 101st airborne, THE one bow, that laid their claim to the problem. yet, mine has never had a failure, so it has always made me wonder, if guys are just simply shooting them "under-arrowed', to take as much advantage of their speed as possible , or what ?. obviously, no-one is going to come out of the closet on this.
to be honest, I got it as new old stock, a few years old, and actually bought it, more as a "challenge" to see if the accusations were founded....so far, i'm saying they aren't.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

I doubt it. It's probably just down in the noise of the general mythology that solid limbs split and crack on a regular basis. Heck, in the old days they used to call PSEs "Precision Splitting Equipment" - that was back when they had the big flat glass limbs that somehow got a reputation. Which I never once ever saw a split or cracked one, though maybe a dry fire at full poundage probably destroyed a couple. I had one of those PSE's and it was built like a tank and gave no cracks or other limb problems at all.

These days, even the man's who are still using solid limbs, that'd be the very last item of consideration on my avoid-this-list when shopping for a bow. I'd do a solid-limb Bowtech in a heartbeat if I didn't already have too many bows and not enough cash LOL....

LS


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

we used to say "Pieces Shooting Everywhere" !.
exactly, to the rest of your post.....
that's why I have a real tendency to surmise that people have been shooting them, "under arrowed'. "they're fast,... let's see if we can make 'em faster",...you know what I mean. 
as well,.... it seems to me, that it would be certain suicide for a company to campaign a bow that they know is going to blow up, even the possibility, would negate marketing, if just for the premise that potential lawsuits would stifle the companies profitability. this is no more that plain simple common sense,... doesn't take a PHD in business or marketing to see one's way through that logic. 
and of course, there is always that bottom line of proof.....my 101st, still has it's original limbs on it.
there is also that certain group of people who think that a warranty, gives passage to abuse, as well.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

In 1994, PSE decided to start making their own limbs. I had 14 bows break that year. Might be a record. After that I switched to Hoyt. Recently I decided to try PSE again and love it. One year and have not had the bow break yet. In 1994, my friends called PSE (Pull, shoot, explode.) But now they seem to have a great line of bows.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

huteson2us2 said:


> In 1994, PSE decided to start making their own limbs. I had 14 bows break that year. Might be a record. After that I switched to Hoyt. Recently I decided to try PSE again and love it. One year and have not had the bow break yet. In 1994, my friends called PSE (Pull, shoot, explode.) But now they seem to have a great line of bows.


Well, like ron said, some of the mythology about exploding bows out there is almost certainly due to under-loading with excessively light arrows. That trend had started even back in the wheel bow/overdraw days and accidents did happen here and there. But honestly today, the level of quality on any bow brand out there right now is so high you pretty much don't have to worry about which one you get. If it fits and meets your needs, it can pretty much have anything written on it you want and it'll be fine.

Returning to the topic, speed is one of those compromises of bow design. Slower bows trade speed for other characteristics that may be desirable in certain circumstances. For example, my Hoyt Tribute is so slow I can walk to the target and stick the arrow into the gold faster. But, OTOH, it truly is very forgiving, for me, of mistakes especially on the back end. I can heave off a, er.. "controlled shot" or put a little chin into it and it penalizes me less at the target than my Supra Max does. The arrow will fly straighter and if I make the same mistake on the SM the arrow will definitely corkscrew quite a bit more. I can also haul back into the wall on it for an eternity almost like shooting a recurve and it'll still give off a good shot.

OTOH, the SM IBO's much faster so it's the preferred bow to shoot outdoors. The extra energy in its power stroke really pays dividends if there's wind or when shooting at longer distances. And it's like a rifle when I get off a good shot without a mistake.... 

So, like I said, compromise is really the name of the game from my POV. You can optimize for a particular application or several applications; there's no scale along which ATA and speed gives better and better results, it's only an optimization....

LS


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

PSE had that reputation back in the mid-70's already !.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Pull, shoot, explode. It was a reality. Field and target R.G. had 3 PSE risers break. PSE replaced two and then they quit making that riser and a upgrade for the 3rd. He's still shooting it. I've shot with RG and no way was his bow overloaded (too light of a arrow).

We made fun of PSEs, but man are they the bow today...


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