# Question on ILF Riser/Limbs



## SteveB (Dec 18, 2003)

1. No down side I have found.

2. 50 to 70% of new

Steve


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## Hoyts n' Mulies (May 5, 2004)

Okay thanks,

I've seen some of the ILF limbs that are $600 a set, what advantage do they offer over the sets that are $300? I realize you probably get what you pay for but what is that you're getting?


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## Jamesw (Sep 14, 2007)

The difference between $150 limbs and $600 to a hunter is a very few fps.The extra cost is for limb stabilty needed more at high end competetion levels.Not something the average guy hunting with a bow will ever see.I guess if you travel all around the world hunting in different climates you might see more for more limb stability but not most hunters.jmo


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

X-Tec, the only downside to ILFs is that you might have a hard time finding limbs heavy enough to suit your hunting purposes. Most ILF manufacturers only make limbs up to about 46# @ 28" on a 25" ILF riser. If used on shorter risers they will normally gain about 1# for each inch the riser is shorter.


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

*Ilf*

Hoyt, Daala, and Trad tech among others make heavy limbs suitable for hunting. Its true you get what you pay for but the question is what do you need, the smoothest shooting and fastest limb might cost alot more but is that what you need for a great field shooter, you have to decide but to me the differences are small enough I have some great limbs that cost me alot less than the $300. I really like the ability to transport my bow and change limbs with ease. Best of luck with your purchase. Hopefully you can try before you buy. Gar.


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## Jack NZ (Apr 7, 2006)

Their noiser to shoot that a solid mount,,,the DAS came from the makers with limb pads,"Six" string silencers.
Without those pads and silencers they sound like a sceendoor slaming shut.
When you take the string off the limbs will often fall out of the riser if your not carefull.
Those are issues I don't like about ILF risers,on the other hand the limbs themselves can be used with a solid mount,as in the Hoyt Dorado,Gamemaster and others.
Then they become both quieter and they don't fall off the riser.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Jack, guys -

I have some full FITA rigs that are as quiet as some longbows with no silencers or limb pads. Yes, those usually have Dacron strings. My ILF "hunting" bows (Warf and short Hoyt rigs) never get more than one pair of "vintage" silencers.

I generally don't worry about noise on a target bow, except for tuning purposes, and yes some can get loud, but it's not a fair blanket statement. Heck, I have a couple of one piece wood bows that sound like a a car door slamming. Ever play with a old Wilson Bros, wood BW?

The limbs falling out is kinda silly, really. Yes, it's the string that holds ILF limbs in place, the dovetail detent is just there so you can string it. Still I've yet to have one fall off unexpectedly, but then again i don't go walking around with an unstrung bow waiting for a limb to drop off either. Just knowing what you're dealing with.

Most of the other post were spot on. You can get higher poundage ILFs these days from a number of sources and even the target limbs are starting to show up in 52# ranges. Go to a shorter riser and with weight adjustments you can 10# to that. IIRC DAS said that going 12# over marked is "safe". I have no way of checking that, but it makes sence and I tend to follow that advice.

One important point that was made earlier by Jamesw is the real advantages in the ubber cutting edge limbs will only be realized by maybe the top 1% of shooters in the world. And it's not the fps either, it's the level of stability that will allow THOSE people to shoot 3" groups at 70M and 6" groups at 90M. 

I really like being able to swap limbs and risers at will for a specific purpose or just for kicks.

Lastly using a fully function ILF rig allow tuning options not readily available with other mounting systems. 

Viper1 out.


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## Hoyts n' Mulies (May 5, 2004)

I'm pretty sold on the Hoyt Dorado and will picking one of those up soon. It seems like the standard ILF setup that people go with for that bow is the Tradtech longbow or recurve limbs. As for weight, 52# is not light to me and would probably be as much as I want to shoot so it wont be a problem. What I've read so far is that you add one pound for every 1" less than the standard 25" riser. So if the Dorado is 19" and I buy 40# limbs then they would scale out at approximately 46#? Is this correct? Any thing else I should be aware of? Thanks for all your help. 

P.S. Anybody have a Dorado they want to trade for a Great Plains?  haha


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

X - 

Sorry if I missed something, but IIRC the Dorado doesn't use the ILF limb couplings. You'll have to get and install a conversion kit. From what I've heard, the std limbs ain't that shabby.

Viper1 out.


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## Hoyts n' Mulies (May 5, 2004)

I've read that also but from what people have said the conversion is quite simple and two rivers sells some conversion adapters. Figured I'd give it a shot. I havent seen any ILF metal risers that are in my budget.


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## warped Arrow (Sep 20, 2005)

The only down sides I can see is price and compatability. I dont know of the later from personal experiances, but I hear that all ILF Fittings are not the same size.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

warped Arrow said:


> T but I hear that all ILF Fittings are not the same size.


There are some slight variations. The problem is that there is no ILF standard. Earl Hoyt invented the Hoyt Dovetail Limb Fitting and others started making bows and limbs to those dimensions, but it isn't an official standard with the ATA or any other standards body, AFIK.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

The Dorado and Gamemaster are both excellent platforms for a serious hunting bow. I've owned a few of them and I've successfully converted ILF limbs to them. It makes for a very smooth, stable setup. 

I've also owned a few of the ILF risers for hunting. The added tunability inherent in the ILF system is a nice feature. If you are capable of exploiting it you can fine tune your bow to match your shooting style perfectly. One new option available for hunting/ 3D is the Hoyt Excel riser. It is available in a 21" version and bridges the gap for an archer wanting a mid-length riser. Plus, it is a very budget friendly at $179.99. If you can wait until they ship it is an excellent option. I recently purchased a 23" Excel and it is a very, very nice riser. 

I think any archer looking for a good set of hunting ILF limbs would do well to get a set of intermediate priced limbs. I've handled some of the entry level stuff and its ok. Most of the mid-priced limbs ($200-300) will have more than enough performance, smoothness, and stability. The very top level limbs offer great performance and exceptional stability. As others have said, it takes a very perceptive individual to feel the difference.

There are some very good deals to be had if you look for it. ILF limbs can be purchased used for great deals (if you don't mind used). I've owned a few different pairs of limbs for less than half retail price.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

For those of you who have converted a Gamemaster to ILF what size limbs would you recommend for a 29" draw around 60 - 70lbs.?

Thanks

Ray


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

I put 4 different sets of limbs on Gamemaster Risers. I've normally gained about 5-6 pounds vs. the limbs marked weight for a 25" riser. I believe the Gamemaster has a slightly shallower limb angle than most ILF risers. Can't remember for sure and I don't have a Gamemaster anymore. 

As far as limb weight you'd probably need a set of 50+ limbs to get up to 60# at 29". If you want 70# you'll be into something custom. As far as length goes that depends on what you want. I've had very good results with medium limbs with a 29" draw. I had one set of short limbs (Dalaa carbons) that I really disliked. On that riser they had a noticeable gain in weight the last inch and a half. They went from about 3# per inch out to 28 up to 4# at 29+. On the flip side, I owned a pair of Sky extra short limbs that gained an even 2.5# per inch out to 29.5" on a 17" riser. Point is the limbs smoothness makes a big difference in the feel.


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## Hoyts n' Mulies (May 5, 2004)

Does the Hoyt Excel above use ILF Limbs? I'm confused as you're talking about ILF limbs but when i look at the riser on hoyts site they don't mention anything about ILF limbs.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

X - 

The Excel is an ILF riser, but an entry level one, marketed to compete with the T-Rex. (I don't think Hoyt has made a non-ILF target rig in decades.) One step up on Hoyt's list is the Eclipse, not really a hunting riser due to it's length, but VERY sweet.

Viper1 out.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

With all due respect, entry level is a relative term. If you compare it to a top end ILF riser it will not have some features. It has only one stabilizer bushing, it doesn't feature any lateral limb adjustment, and it doesn't have an anodized finish. The limb pocket is open and it doesn't have a machined in clicker plate. So, in one sense, it is entry level... compared to a top end ILF riser. For an archer interested in the Oly/ FITA style of shooting it doesn't offer the level of customization a higher priced riser affords.

However, the riser has the same deflex geometry that is inherent in target bows. It is fully adjustable for tiller and weight. It sports the same ergonomic grips that can be switched out to the archers desire. It can be used with any style AMO style accessory. I mean the venerable Hoyt Gold Medalist is in the same category and that riser was, and is, more than capable of world class performance in an accomplished archer's hands. The guts of a riser is the design, the Excel has it. It simply doesn't have a bunch of features that drive up the cost and, arguably, aren't really neccessary.

If the riser is entry level than the same can be applied to a DAS, Titan, or any other riser with similar characteristics. My Excel is on par in regards to pointability, feel, lack of vibration, and sound as the two aforementioned risers. The Eclipse is a good option for a more FITA oriented person. I chose the Excel because I can shoot it in a variety of settings. I can shoot it set up for FITA, for 3D, trad (if setup off the shelf), RU class, it's barebow legal (I don't believe the Eclipse is), and for hunting. 


I guess what I'm saying is don't let its "entry level" status scare you away.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Str8 -

There's absolutely nothing "wrong" with the Excel riser, or the T-Rex for that matter. Shooting it back to back (with similar configurations) with a Helix, Areotec, Nexus etc riser and you'll see/feel the difference. Entry level doesn't mena "bad", it means "entry level". 

BTW - Hoyt risers have used basically the same geometry since 1963, almost all bows of that type do. 

Viper1 out.


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

I know that entry level isn't bad. I'm just pointing out a FITA shooter may see an entry level riser while a trad shooter may see a high-tech riser. It is relative to the shooter.


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## Feral Donkey (Nov 6, 2005)

I just made some ILF limb pockets for a Daala riser I'm customizing. The standard ILF limbs snap right into place and have full articulation and you can unstring the bow, hold it upright, and shake it pretty hard and it doesn't come apart. I can go to both ends of the adjustment and still pop the limbs in and out no problem. The bows with the old tapered Sky bushings were a pain in the butt to get strung. A few times I was ready to break out the duct tape.  

If you're looking for a down-side to ILF I'd say some limb and string combos have a smaller "sweet spot" in your tuning than a regular bolt-down style limb. Your tiller and brace is a lot touchier in certain circumstances. It seems more so with the shorter risers. 

The rubber pads in the pockets is not necessary. If you're getting noise out of your limb pockets, that's an indication that you have other tuning problems. Adding 85 grains of rubber to the string and adding a floor mat to the limb pocket might put a band-aid on the problem but fix it. If you're getting what you think is limb pocket noise, more often than not, it's coming out of the working part of the limb. Try raising your brace a little at a time. This will often make it quieter. You find the sweet spot in your brace then try moving your tiller positive in 1/16 increments. If it gets noisier, go the other way. I have a 21" riser that I spent time with like that with a set of new Sky Conquest carbons. I don't have anything in the pockets or anything on the string. The loops aren't even padded. It's quieter than most people's hunting bows with string silencers. There's nothing magical about it, I just spent a lot of time finding the sweet spot for that particular combo.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ferral,

Are you planning on selling and marketing these limb pockets for DAS risers?

Ray


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## Feral Donkey (Nov 6, 2005)

BLACK WOLF said:


> Ferral,
> 
> Are you planning on selling and marketing these limb pockets for DAS risers?
> 
> Ray


Not sure yet. I've just made a few sets for right now and I'm customizing this Daala riser for Marc. It wouldn't be any big deal to produce them. I just don't know if I want to screw with it.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Feral Donkey said:


> Not sure yet. I've just made a few sets for right now and I'm customizing this Daala riser for Marc. It wouldn't be any big deal to produce them. I just don't know if I want to screw with it.


Dude...you already are! 

Ray


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## Feral Donkey (Nov 6, 2005)

I mean taking orders and mass production. I mentioned something about it over on LW on a Daala thread that I like the riser and I'm working on customizing one right now and it went off like a powder keg. Man, I don't need that headache in my life. I can just imagine all the stuff they'd do. I'm so sick of it all and I have much more pleasant and fruitful things to do with my life than to deal with that crap. 

Anyway, I can't wait until my 21" Excel riser comes in. We'll see what I can do to that. I Think I'll make some sort of insert out of solid teflon that creates a radiused shelf with a beveled edge. Then I'll build out some felt for a side plate. Maybe use chair buttons. Don't know yet. I'll do this if Hoyt can ever get those damn things made before we all die of old age. 

Anyway, here's a few pics of the Daala I'm working on in its early stages. Since then I've completely finished the pockets. Now on those dog ears there's #6-32 holes with set screws for moving it back and forth for lateral alignment. In these pics I hadn't done that yet. I also finished blending all the radiuses and got them preped to go to powdercoat.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Feral,

Well...if you ever decide to sell a few more...I'd be interested 

Ray


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## Darton01 (Aug 25, 2006)

Nice work.:thumbs_up


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## Teucer (Aug 19, 2007)

*Great Job*

Great Job, is there a reason the dog ears are that long ?


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## Feral Donkey (Nov 6, 2005)

Teucer said:


> Great Job, is there a reason the dog ears are that long ?


Because there are tapped holed running through them crosswise now. I put those in the other night. That way the shooter can loosen the big button screw holding the limb pad to the bow and use the set screws in the tapped holes to push the limb pad from side to side. The button screw hole is elongated and the limb pad pivots around the limb bolt. Then you tighten the big button screw again and away you go. I might get some of the fancy button screws with the little nylon piece injected in the threads. It makes them a little harder to turn but it acts like locktite. The problem is I have to buy a whole box of them.


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## Hoyts n' Mulies (May 5, 2004)

Well with the recent news of the new Monster riser that is built to accept ILF limbs I may have to wait and see whats happening there. Pretty cool design.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Now if David Sosa had come up with something similar to this as an option to have both his modified limb pocket and ILF pockets included with the riser...for me...that would be the ultimate riser....because there are characteristics that I like about both limb pockets.

Maybe Ferral will actually succeed in taking the best characteristics of both and combining them into one limb pocket 

Ray


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## Feral Donkey (Nov 6, 2005)

I might make another set as an experiment. See those tabs for the lateral adjsutment? I'm thinking of continuing them on the length of the limb pad and tapering down to nothing on the fat end then on the skinny end have them terminate where the dog-ears do now with all the radiusing. That'll add some strength and make them a little nicer looking.


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## Feral Donkey (Nov 6, 2005)

Black Wolf, I got you some more pictures.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Looks AWESOME! I can't wait to hear how it works!

Ray


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