# Is there a relation between bow poundage and the number of strands in the string?



## bsu_beginner (Feb 14, 2005)

Les K said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm pretty new to the game but I've noticed my original bow string is fraying pretty much and I would like to replace it. I did buy another one but it is much thicker than the one I have and the arrow nocks don't fit. I'm still using the old one until I hopefully find out more from you kind folks what I should do.
> My question is: how much does the thickness of the string effect things such as arrow speed and such, and should thinner strings be used with lighter weight bows and thicker strings with the more powerful ones?
> ...


From reading this thread... there are a few things I'd like to point out before i go to the question: 
1) Are you waxing the thread? It does make a difference and make the bowstring last longer.
2) There is a correlation between serving size and nock size. I'm not sure how you're gonna deal with it, if you are going to want to use a thinner center serving with a smaller nock or a larger center serving with a larger nock. 
3) If your string is frayed... stop!!!! Do not shoot with it anymore. It can hurt you. There are so many ways you can get hurt on an archery range... knowledgably using faulty strings is an easily avoidable way to really do yourself some pain.

Ok as for your string. Honestly, on a recurve... if you're shooting an olympic recurve... 16 strands is recommended and is a good idea. i do 18 myself. I'm pulling back around 47#. But 16 is what you'd be wanting. The problem with less than 16 strands: 
1) stability. your fingers do impart a horizonal deflection (meaning the string is moving to the right and left when its going towards to bow on release). A thicker string means you get a better "recovery" and the string straightens out better. 
2) I've heard of too thin a string actually splitting the trough that it rests in when the bow isn't drawn. Might wanna take note. 
3) If you have a strand that's frayed that's one thing... but if you have fewer strands and one gets frayed... then you have some serious problems... might wanna take now. 

Just my .02


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

bsu_beginner said:


> A thicker string means you get a better "recovery" and the string straightens out better.



Can you substantiate this?


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## bsu_beginner (Feb 14, 2005)

Seattlepop said:


> Can you substantiate this?


A thicker string gives more stability. lesser micro-vibes, and henceforth makes mistakes just a tad more forgivable. Its a simple test. Take to guitar strings... uhmm... 1st and 6th string on your guitar. Better yet if you play classical guitar with those nylon strings... adjust them so they are at the exact same tension. Pluck them at the exact same time... which one stops vibrating first?


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## ROB B (Oct 30, 2002)

*String count?*

I am confused about this myself. I have tried 16 strand, 18 strand, and have settled on 12 strands in my string

But I have a short draw and only 32# on the fingers.When I go to a heavier string my bow becomes very sluggish and nothing is repeatable.

To each his own I guess

Rob


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

Are we assuming a B-50 dacron string? 
Fast-Flite and its relatives are pretty much sized to fit the nocks - they are capable of handling far more poundage than needed. Also, I use D-75 thin, so my 20 strand string uses .88 (narrow) G-nocks. The string is ... you guessed it, thinner than most. 
Most commercial strings supplied with short bows for kids(for instance, 54") come with B-50 16 stranders appropriate for maybe 55# when the kid is actually shooting about 15# on the fingers. Talk about slow motion... - and pretty tough to fit small nocks.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Les K said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm pretty new to the game but I've noticed my original bow string is fraying pretty much and I would like to replace it. I did buy another one but it is much thicker than the one I have and the arrow nocks don't fit. I'm still using the old one until I hopefully find out more from you kind folks what I should do.
> My question is: how much does the thickness of the string effect things such as arrow speed and such, and should thinner strings be used with lighter weight bows and thicker strings with the more powerful ones?
> ...


Hello Les:

If you bought a commercial dacron recurve bow string,
then it probably has a monofilament center serving (essentially fishing line)
and probably 16 strands.

If you are using Easton nocks (large groove size)
then the fit is terrible, as in the bowstring center serving is way way too large.


I make recurve bow strings for my recurve students
with 12 strands of dacron and then use a thin center serving material,
like BCY 3D and then add extra strands of center serving (usually a single thread of center serving material right next to the dacron strands)
to get a custom center serving diameter.

I work with kids and adults just starting out on a recurve bow,
and the difference between the "stock" 16 strand recurve bow string 
with the fishing line center serving,
and a custom made dacron recurve bow string that "fits" not too tight...

the difference in accuracy is amazing.


Here is an easy test to see if the center serving on your bowstring is too tight.

Hold your bow so the string is horizontal.

Snap the nock onto the center serving.

Now, 1 sharp tap of your index finger
on the center serving close to the nock (say 1 inch away)
and the arrow should fly off the center serving and hit the floor.


If the nock does not let go,
then the center serving is too large for you nock.

I like my center serving sized so that the nock
holds the weight of the arrow
and
the nock can easily slide up and down the center serving.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Sent ya a pm.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

My suggestions-(based on 6000 or so strings tied) and 12 years in competitive recurve-10 years coaching recurve archers

1) for a standard man's olympic bow-ie 40-50 pounds here are my suggestions

1) 18 Strands of 8125, or 14 strands of D97, or 18 Strands of Majesty, 14 strands of 02, 18 Strands of TS-1 or TS-I+, 14 strands of D75 or 18/20 strands of D75 thin.

serving 19 Halo 21 Angel Majesty or 22 Crown. These generally fit a large easton G nock, a Beiter #2 or a Large Easton pin nock

Junior Or Ladies bow 30-36 or so--I usually go down to 16 strands of 8125 or Majesty. 

Special-like a small kid-my son Ian who is pulling 14 pounds at about 19 inches

I go 10 strands of 02 with .24/.25 HALO serving-fits the small groove Eastons well.


My favorite all around string material is 8125-I believe it is the most stable stuff going with Brownell's old TS-1 (Spectra) a close second. D97 lasts along time as does Fast Flite. I shoot majesty because its faster for field but I don't get as many shots out of it as the BCY stuff. It is not as stable IMHO.

D75 Thin and D75 are both good string material but Chris Deston has always been real good to me so I tend to stick with BCY


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## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

Les K said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm pretty new to the game but I've noticed my original bow string is fraying pretty much and I would like to replace it. I did buy another one but it is much thicker than the one I have and the arrow nocks don't fit. I'm still using the old one until I hopefully find out more from you kind folks what I should do.
> My question is: how much does the thickness of the string effect things such as arrow speed and such, and should thinner strings be used with lighter weight bows and thicker strings with the more powerful ones?
> ...


To answer the question simply. String stand, and string material have a direct relationship to how the bow performs.

Now the long version:
I see you mention strands, but not material.
The difference between a 12 strand Dynaflight97, and a 16 Strand Dacron, is, well, huge.
Do you know what material the 12 strand was made from?
And is it the same as the 16, if they are both the same material, the difference is still quite, well, different.

If you are new to the game, I personally, would have you shoot 14 strand DF97, but I'm *no coach*, a 12 strand of the same or similar material may do what you want/need.

Coach, Jim C, has some VERY good advice, take note please!
It's important, being new to the game, that you pay attention to not just the number of strands, but more importantly, the string material. (a 14 strand DF 97 is faster than an 18 Strand Majesty (my experience, tested extensively).
By a small margin.
Both, will out speed a Dacron 16 strand string, remarkably.
Then again, a 12 strand Dacron, is much faster than a 16 strand Dacron.
fewer strands, faster string, providing we are talking the same material and strand thickness 
(more strands, slower string, and yet more consistent, especially with an archer still perfecting their release and form, this is my opinion (everytime I say this, someone has deep opinion otherwise, but, I've proved it to myself and that's all that counts for me (could never be counted, the number of strings I've made, and the testing I've done here), yet, each archer is different, and I've not lost sight of that fact in the facts I've learned).

If you have a string that works well, and need a new one, get one that is it's equal (to save you from this headache).
Don't shoot frayed strings, also, especially, if they look bad. Don't get hurt.
Your best bet is to replace what you had, with a new of what you had (material especially).

Recap: Number of strands, AND string material (many different thicknesses, and yet still a matter of preference) are extremely relational to how the bow performs.

It's no mystery why your 16 strand string feels sluggish compared to your 12 strand previous string, even if same material, possibly more so if NOT the same.

Servings? Must be made or the size that fit your string, and, fit your nock, always take into account your nock size when buying a string (if you bought off the shelf, could you have taken a nock with you to see if it fit what you were buying?).
The problem with buying strings off the shelf, for the new to this game, is they look like strings, but there is so much that must be considered.

Do a search here on AT, on string strands, and string material. You will learn a lot. 

A very good idea would be to take them (your bow and strings) to a shop, and tell them your story, and they will be able to not only help you, but give you much more knowledge quickly regarding strings, and your bow.
And, you may walk out with a good string that works well for you.

You are welcome to PM me about this if you have more questions (string maker myself, with a kind heart), and with enough info, I may just send you one for nothing if you are interested to see if it helps and works for you.

-Brian


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jim's advice above is spot-on.

I shoot nothing but 8125. 18 strands with diamondback .021 serving, with one strand of serving thread under the serving to create a perfect nock fit.

John.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

bsu_beginner said:


> A thicker string gives more stability. lesser micro-vibes, and henceforth makes mistakes just a tad more forgivable. Its a simple test. Take to guitar strings... uhmm... 1st and 6th string on your guitar. Better yet if you play classical guitar with those nylon strings... adjust them so they are at the exact same tension. Pluck them at the exact same time... which one stops vibrating first?


I now know what the "BS" stands for. ;0)


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

One other thing-you can get LOTS of shots out of some of the material-FF expecially-Rick McKinney apparently had a string that hit 6 figures and still was in one piece. However, Here is my advice on strings-which is what I used to tell people when I coached squash and some tennis-we would tell students to restring their racquets X times a year based on X times they played a week


If you shoot once a week (say 100 arrows) you probably ought to change your string once a year because 5K-6K shots is a good lifespan for a string

If you shoot twice a week-change your string twice a year

Three times a week-three strings etc

If you are shooting 600-1000 arrows a week than you are changing your string every couple of months or so.

I have never done an extensive test on how long a string lasts (such as doing sophisticated chronograph tests etc) but Vittorio Mentioned 6000 shots and that is good enough for me and based on my general observations that figure seems to make sense.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

string strength:

For most recurve archers-this isn't a major concern given that the new stuff (ie non dacron) is so much stronger than dacron) but here are some other considerations

You can go with D97 or D75 or the now discontinued 02 which all generally use 14 strands or you can use 8125, TS-1Plus or D75 Thin which generally requires 18 strands for the same nock fit as the thicker stuff with less strands.

The advantage of the thicker stuff is it is easier to get uniform strand tension with less strands. Of course if you have a stretcher on your jig (or you do what I do and let the laid out string sit for a few hours before you start serving) it is pretty much a moot point but if you are tying 95" one cam bow strings in a hurry this might be important.

The strings with more strands are theoretically stronger because the per strand breaking tension is such that 18 Strands of thin stuff can support more weight than 14 strands of thick stuff but again shooting normal olympic weights its not really and issue.

A final point is that playing around with string weight is a fine tune method for moving your bare shaft and sometimes two materials that "on the books" appear to be the same can have different bare shaft results. So can cutting down the length of the serving etc


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## Les K (Apr 2, 2008)

*Woooaaa....a whole lot of information!*

Hey folks, 

First of all, thank you all for posting so many replies! It is apparent from reading these posts that the issue is far more complicated than I thought, and I had no idea that the materials differed so much in thickness and strength! I think that I should try and find out more about the string that I just bought and maybe you folks can help on that too. The company that makes the string is called "Vapor Trail" and underneath the company logo it says "Quit Your Crying". It is marked 62 and 1/2 inch RCV. and that is all of the information that I have. There is no listing of what the string is made of, and the website has no listing that I could find on any recurve string at all as it looks like they make mostly compound strings. It is unfired because the arrows don't fit at all. It is a cool orange and grey twist color though.....Can anyone tell me more about this string/company? It looks like I need to really learn how make my own string so that I can get exactly what will work for my setup.

Thanks again, 

Les


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