# NFAA Yankton, SD Really?!?!?!!?



## shamlin

As a new member and shooter to the NFAA along with my family, I can tell you that it is absolutely crazy that they hold their National tournament in Yankton, SD. It is an extremely obscure and remote place to hold such an event! For me and my family to travel there and shoot is just plain costly. I cannot see this tournament growing as much as archery has recently by holding National level events there. I could only imagine what attendance would be like if it were around a major metropolitan city like Dallas or Atlanta.


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## cbrunson

That's where the NFAA organization is from.


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## ccwilder3

I agree with you but the problem is finding a place that has enough ranges to host the tournament. Yankton is where the NFAA headquarters is. The other locations, Washington and Pennsylvania are just as bad as far as cost to travel goes. It would cost me $2000 dollars to attend any of them.


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## field14

It IS the National Headquarters. They've completely rebuilt their field courses there as well as having a huge indoor archery facility.
The "rotation" is West Coast, Central, East Coast.
IF no bidders take the Central when it is time, rather than being "held hostage" as in the past, the NFAA Outdoor Nationals falls to Yankton.

It is most appropriate to hold the event at the NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS and utilize the facility as intended.

It could be worse...the NFAA could make a permanent site to host the NFAA Outdoor Nationals and have it ALWAYS be at Yankton. We obviously know that having ONE permanent site would go over like a lead balloon...no matter where it was held.

Of late, it has been Mechanicsburg, PA, then out to Washington State (hosted the Nationals numerous times), then to "Central", which is now Yankton. IF bidders come through then perhaps it wouldn't force the issue about Yankton.

Aurora is gone, Bonner Springs hasn't been bidding, **** Rapids, MN? Midland, MI? Just where would you suggest they have the "CENTRAL" location? pray tell?
...and don't say, "Anywhere BUT Yankton, SD"...*offer a solution*. Where is this miraculous set of ranges located in the Central, or near Central USA?
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Pete53

it has to be someplace and yankton is paid for and it is a nice facility and it cost all of us money to attend.you don`t have to go but if you want to shoot pay the money.most of us don`t have this nice NFAA facility in our backyard either,but it is a very safe place besides,the two places you suggested are not at all central and for sure not as safe an area to camp.Yankton, South Dakota have you ever been there ? its very nice ,people are nice,weather is usally great and dry too.and it will cost me and most people a bunch of money too if we want to compete.


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## field14

Pete53 said:


> it has to be someplace and yankton is paid for and it is a nice facility and it cost all of us money to attend.you don`t have to go but if you want to shoot pay the money.most of us don`t have this nice NFAA facility in our backyard either,but it is a very safe place besides,the two places you suggested are not at all central and for sure not as safe an area to camp.Yankton, South Dakota have you ever been there ? its very nice ,people are nice,weather is usally great and dry too.and it will cost me and most people a bunch of money too if we want to compete.


I didn't "suggest" those places...those WERE places the Nationals had been held in the past when the "Central" time came up. Aurora used to be THE place to hold the NFAA Nationals way back when for the Central. Then the NFAA and AuroraLand Archers couldn't come to terms for whatever reason and Aurora, Illinois was lost forever. Similar thing happened to Watkins Glen, NY...The NFAA Nationals had been held there for many, many, many times for the "Eastern" turn. Then some beef came up there too, only a few years ago, and now Watkins Glen is out of the picture, too.
Bonner Springs, KS, Detroit Lakes, MN, Midland, MI (I think...I did go to a Great Lakes Sectionals in Midland) are all places that the NFAA Outdoor Nationals had been held in the past; but no longer make any bids for it...so they, too are gone.
Thus, finding a CENTRAL location that doesn't put the NFAA at Hostage...or worse yet, the possibility existed that there could be NO BIDS for the NFAA Outdoor Nationals...and then what does the NFAA do?
Thus, the NFAA Headquarters, centrally located, and with full facilities to host the NFAA Nationals, IFAA Worlds, an some super indoor and outdoor events besides.
NOW there is always a place to hold the NFAA Outdoor Nationals...bids or no bids! No more playing games begging or being held hostage.


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## ccwilder3

How many ranges does it take for the Nationals?


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## Pete53

what i was writing about is the top post those two place`s dallas and atlanta. field 14 i agree with what you wrote. i guess i should have paste`ed the first or top post sorry.


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## field14

Pete53 said:


> what i was writing about is the top post those two place`s dallas and atlanta. field 14 i agree with what you wrote. i guess i should have paste`ed the first or top post sorry.


Gotcha.
However, I know of zero archery ranges in Dallas or Atlanta that could/would handle the NFAA Outdoor Nationals. If there aren't any ranges there that are already built then there is zero chance of it happening. Field courses aren't something you just set up in a week or two, use them, and then take them out, pack them up, and move 'em somewhere else.
Yes, Watkins Glen did sorta "take out" the field courses after the Mid-Atlantic Sectionals, Nationals, and NYFAB State Tournaments were over, but the shooting lanes were always pretty much kept in tow. NYFAB tried to get the Mids, and Nationals in the same year and then wouldn't announce too far in advance which ranges would be shot for the NYFAB State Tournament that year.
But that, too, is now history, so no use talking about Watkins Glen right now.

I lived in San Antonio for awhile, and as large as San Antonio was, there were only TWO 28 target field courses to be found. One was out in the sticks North of town, and the other was almost "downtown" and across the boulevard from a Trap & Skeet Club. The downtown one was flat as a pancake and groomed like a golf course and a whale of a good time to shoot upon! Don't know if it is still there or not.
However 28 targets won't cut it for a Nationals or even a Sectional tournament.
I think they require 5 28 target courses to host an NFAA Outdoor Nationals, but not positive of that.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## wa-prez

Replying to ccwilder who asked, "How many ranges does it take for the Nationals?"


The host needs to provide FIVE 28-target field ranges.

All staked for Field, Hunter and Animal.

At LEAST two with cub stakes.

Shoot is five days, usually attracts 350-600 archers.


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## wa-prez

Pete53 said:


> it has to be someplace and yankton is paid for and it is a nice facility and it cost all of us money to attend. you don't have to go but if you want to shoot pay the money. most of us don't have this nice NFAA facility in our backyard either, but it is a very safe place besides, the two places you suggested are not at all central and for sure not as safe an area to camp. Yankton, South Dakota have you ever been there? it's very nice, people are nice, weather is usally great and dry too. and it will cost me and most people a bunch of money too if we want to compete.


One of the nice (unique) things about the range in Yankton is once you are there, staying at the Kelly Inn or at the KOA campground, you don't have to drive ANYWHERE until it is over. The ranges (or at least some of them, I haven't been there since they were remodeled) are literally right outside the hotel.


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## rsw

Yankton is a quality place for many reasons - mainly handy from motels, etc to the ranges. Not overly expensive and highway access is pretty good. It is almost as central as one could find where there are adequate ranges. The biggest problem with the nationals is simply the decline and fall of field archery eliminated clubs with the potential to host a large event.


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## field14

rsw said:


> Yankton is a quality place for many reasons - mainly handy from motels, etc to the ranges. Not overly expensive and highway access is pretty good. It is almost as central as one could find where there are adequate ranges. The biggest problem with the nationals is simply the decline and fall of field archery eliminated clubs with the potential to host a large event.


Very well said, Roger. I haven't been to Yankton's facility, but from what I hear, it is substantially improved from what it was the first year and gets better all the time.
Didn't the Army Corps of Engineers use their machinery to rebuild the courses and make them safer along with making them challenging?

There just aren't enough places around that have the capability of putting in 5 ranges to support a National Tournament. In the hey-day, when you and I were shooting a lot, there were several sites that were willing to host the Nationals and Sectionals. But that was then, and this is now.
The East was always loaded with potential hosts, and now it is pretty much Mechanicsburg, what with Watkins Glen no longer available for hosting it.
The West has been only Darrington for like a long, long, long time. No other clubs want to host the Nationals.
Losing the sites I mentioned for the Central pretty much means that there isn't anywhere else willing to host it...other than Yankton.

The protective move was GREAT by making sure there IS a site to host the NFAA Outdoor Nationals EVERY year, regardless of whether there are bidders or not. Without this, if there weren't any bidders, then there would not have been a National Outdoor that year!

Maybe this huge, gigantic spurt in indoor archery in the USA from the recent movies will spill over into outdoor FIELD and Target Archery too.
The World Cup series is sure gaining interest here in the USA in leaps and bounds, too.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## shamlin

It is just this sort of narrow minded thinking that holds back these organizations. The NFAA is settling on a location because it is the National Headquarters? Then it didn't take into account the growth potential archery has and will continue to see. I am not doubting the beauty of the place, I am questioning the rational and logistics of holding an event there. Question, if there were over 1500 archers attending this event, could the town handle the lodging requirements? I hate the fact that my son could potentially place high at an event like this but the travel costs and time required are not practical. If the NFAA and other organizations continue to choose remote locations to hold events then they are OK with stagnating their growth.


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## Supermag1

shamlin said:


> It is just this sort of narrow minded thinking that holds back these organizations. The NFAA is settling on a location because it is the National Headquarters? Then it didn't take into account the growth potential archery has and will continue to see. I am not doubting the beauty of the place, I am questioning the rational and logistics of holding an event there. Question, if there were over 1500 archers attending this event, could the town handle the lodging requirements? I hate the fact that my son could potentially place high at an event like this but the travel costs and time required are not practical. If the NFAA and other organizations continue to choose remote locations to hold events then they are OK with stagnating their growth.


So because it's not close for you it's irrational to hold an event there? I'm sick of people whining about shoot locations because they might have to travel a little ways to attend it. Until Regions held their OK event this year, Yankton was the ONLY national level outdoor shoot location that was within remotely reasonable driving distance (less than 12 hours) and I live dang close to the geographic center of the USA.


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## bowhunter_va_28

It costs to build and maintain 5 ranges. It takes effort and dedication from Club members. If you and your local Club are willing to do so then I'm sure the NFAA would consider your bid. Otherwise what would you suggest the NFAA do? Hold a national tournament on leased land and pay crews to set up and breakdown the 5 courses? Make it a family vacation if it's that important to you to see YOUR son place well at a national event. This attitude of "what can you do for me" gets old. What can you do as a new member of the NFAA?


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## field14

shamlin said:


> It is just this sort of narrow minded thinking that holds back these organizations. The NFAA is settling on a location because it is the National Headquarters? Then it didn't take into account the growth potential archery has and will continue to see. I am not doubting the beauty of the place, I am questioning the rational and logistics of holding an event there. Question, if there were over 1500 archers attending this event, could the town handle the lodging requirements? I hate the fact that my son could potentially place high at an event like this but the travel costs and time required are not practical. If the NFAA and other organizations continue to choose remote locations to hold events then they are OK with stagnating their growth.


So, get on out there and put together a club. Then build a set of ranges capable of meeting the 5 ranges requirement for hosting a National Outdoor event. Then put together the crew to run the event and put in your bid for the NFAA Outdoor Nationals exactly where YOU want it to be. I'm sure that the NFAA would entertain the new bid from such a location and energetic club.
You are the one being narrow minded. IF there had been other bids from somewhere in the "central" area of the US, that bid would have been acknowledged and considered. Likely, there was NOT a bid that came forth.
The same thing goes with the long standing Darrington courses. IF there is another bid put forth from out West, that bid would be considered along with Darrington's bid and if it is more suitable and favorable, then the other place would get the bid.
When there were several locations out East, it was not a "guarantee" that Watkins Glen would get the bid to host the NFAA Outdoor Nationals. Their bid had to be competitive and be a "better deal" than the other one(s).

You haven't a clue of what it takes to host a National event. No matter where the event would be held EVERYONE has the travel costs and time required to get there to compete; not just you and your tiny little box! It is called, "You know where the event will be held one or two YEARS in advance. PLAN FOR IT." You aren't the only ones that either make accommodations to the location or....stay home.
That is why the locations rotate...so that the same people don't have to make the huge investments in travel costs and time requirements every single year.

You aren't becoming part of the SOLUTION, you are part of the problem. I can well imagine how loud you would be screaming if the tournament this year was being held in Ludlow, Massachusetts instead of Yankton. South Dakota, that HAS the facilities to do it is about as "Central" as you can get.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## TNMAN

field14 said:


> So, get on out there and put together a club. Then build a set of ranges capable of meeting the 5 ranges requirement for hosting a National Outdoor event. Then put together the crew to run the event and put in your bid for the NFAA Outdoor Nationals exactly where YOU want it to be.---field14 (Tom D.)


Bill Shane and the all of the Keowee bunch at Clemson got it done back when it took 11 ranges. Bill was S.E. pro rep, and one of my heroes as a young shooter.

http://www.keoweebowmen.com/Club_History.html


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## Pete53

on the flip side of the coin, i think it will be a super great archery event this year ! and we all need to thank the NFAA for hosting the nationals,hope the weather is great and attendance is good . and i think Yankton,South Dakota is a great place to hold the NFAA Outdoor Nationals,yes i may also spend time and money driving to Yankton but as my grandfather said: you can`t take it with you so have a little fun and enjoy yourself life is too short. Pete53


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## field14

TNMAN said:


> Bill Shane and the all of the Keowee bunch at Clemson got it done back when it took 11 ranges. Bill was S.E. pro rep, and one of my heroes as a young shooter.
> 
> http://www.keoweebowmen.com/Club_History.html


Yes, they certainly did do a whale of a job for the NFAA Outdoor Nationals in Clemson! But back then the archers had a different mindset that today's group. We had a lot more archers willing to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk and WORK to get things done. Even then, however, the clubs still had the workers and the complainers (about the workers). One huge thing that has changed is that the "work force" has declined and not only because of the reduced number of shooters, but the reduced willingness to get off the porch and share the load.
It is much easier for folks to complain about the location of the event and that it might cost THEM this or that, with nearly complete disregard for others in the same boat or worse. for whatever reason, they cannot be thankful that there is a National Outdoor Field Championship to attend!
It would be great to have the Nationals back in Clemson, or Ludlow, or...even Dallas (where it has never been)...but it comes right down to club(s) that are willing to tackle the beast and come through with that bid! It isn't the NFAA's fault there are no other bidders in the Central areas of the USA.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## shamlin

Supermag1 said:


> So because it's not close for you it's irrational to hold an event there? I'm sick of people whining about shoot locations because they might have to travel a little ways to attend it. Until Regions held their OK event this year, Yankton was the ONLY national level outdoor shoot location that was within remotely reasonable driving distance (less than 12 hours) and I live dang close to the geographic center of the USA.


No I am not looking at the geographical center of the US, I am looking at the demographic of where the "shooter are" and I can assure you it is no where near Yankton SD. The epicenter of tournament archers is the south entrap to southeast, with a large group in the eastern Midwest. Look at the memberships of the big organizations and it will show you. In addition if you are looking to grow your organizations it is best to be in the major metropolitan areas, not in the middle of no where. It's called demographic marketing!


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## field14

shamlin said:


> No I am not looking at the geographical center of the US, I am looking at the demographic of where the "shooter are" and I can assure you it is no where near Yankton SD. The epicenter of tournament archers is the south entrap to southeast, with a large group in the eastern Midwest. Look at the memberships of the big organizations and it will show you. In addition if you are looking to grow your organizations it is best to be in the major metropolitan areas, not in the middle of no where. It's called demographic marketing!


Interesting that you have this postive proof of archery population centers...but fail to mention the Southwest; or California, et cetera. You maybe should check your numbers for ARCHERY before you start spouting that "epicenter of tournament archers stuff." You may well be surprised. 
I would agree perhaps that the epicenter for ASA 3-D archery is in the Southeast or South, but the ASA won't venture into the Central, North, or Western areas. Neither does the IBO...they stay East of the Mississippi. You won't "pull" ASA or IBO shooters in droves to the NFAA either.

You get your turn when it is in Mechanicsburg. Close enough? You aren't going to have it in your back yard every single year. Never has been that way, and never will be that way.
The reason has always been so that the there is at least some equity over the rotation in the travel distance and expense...sorta like distribution of the wealth.
Also, since the NFAA runs the National Outdoors when it is in Yankton...the ONLY cost to the NFAA if the target faces and awards. The ranges are pretty well maintained and there isn't a "host club" to get part of the take in from the competitors. Thus, that increases the "Profit Margin" to help pay for other tournaments that aren't faring so well.
It isn't ALL about making the SouthEast happy, or the NorthEast, or the Northwest either! Some places just seem to figure the NFAA is supposed to always play favorites and cater to them.
You knew about the Yankton location for 2014 two years ago. Should have planned for it. If you think you want it changed, then step up to the plate and submit an agenda item to change the way the National Outdoor Tournament site is selected so it favors the South East. Then, if the agenda item gets enough signatures, it goes forward from there. IF it passes muster, then you have your way. If it doesn't, at least you tried.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Davik

shamlin said:


> No I am not looking at the geographical center of the US, I am looking at the demographic of where the "shooter are" and I can assure you it is no where near Yankton SD. The epicenter of tournament archers is the south entrap to southeast, with a large group in the eastern Midwest. Look at the memberships of the big organizations and it will show you. In addition if you are looking to grow your organizations it is best to be in the major metropolitan areas, not in the middle of no where. It's called demographic marketing!


This is funny...you could take all the field shooters in Texas and Oklahoma and Louisianna and bulldoze them into a pile, and there wouldn't be enough of them collectively to host a national event! Our Texas field Archery "Shoot Your Way Across Texas" series of shoots are poorly attended at best, and I have yet to see a club in texas with more than 3 full ranges...Field archery in texas is being beaten down by 3D...that's where the shooters are.


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## Pete53

not everyone is always happy, but this will work best for the rest of the NFAA shooter`s this year. i`m just glad someone will host the outdoor NFAA nationals it takes alot of volunteer time,space and money to get this huge outdoor tournament ready. don`t go if its to expensive and takes to much time to travel .simple solution. people in sports always say this: there is no I in TEAM !


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## rsw

Narrow Minded: choice of locations has absolutely nothing to do with it. Yankton is not the "center of archery" but for hosting the nationals, there is absolutely no other central point of choice. This is not a fault of the NFAA or any other entity. The basic problem is simply the dying throes of the NFAA. There used to be plenty of field archery facilities, some of which had the capability of hosting 1000-1500 shooters. Today there is only one single facility with that capability - Yankton, SD. The NFAA headquarters moved there because there was free or very inexpensive land to create this facility and adequate infrastructure to make it a logical site to hold a national/international archery venue thanks to our president and easton archery.

You can be a cry baby about it or join up with the hundreds of others who have to travel to the nationals every year. Only a very few over the last half century or so that have had a hometown, or even nearby national tournament. Demographics also have absolutely nothing to do with where the events are held. New York city, LA, Chicago, etc don't have the capability to handle this. The largest number of shooters are spread all around the country and probably there are as many near Yankton as there are in most areas of the US. To ease travel, the NFAA historically rotated the national tournament to one of three regional areas each year. Unfortunately for you archery is not important enough to make it a priority activity; therefore, the cost of travel is too much. For many, it is a priority and they are willing to travel to shoot. I don't care where it is. I enjoy the event so I willingly spend the money to travel.

Bottom line: life is full of choices and none of us can always have our cake and eat it too. Make your choices and quit belly-aching about something you don't understand.


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## ccwilder3

This is not about it being a hometown tournament but being within a reasonable distance. The reason Pennsylvania always has a higher attendance than the other two sites is that it is located closer to the larger population centers. All three sites are in the far northern part of the country well away from population centers in the South and Southeast. 

But it does keep coming back to the fact that there are no centrally located place with the necessary ranges. All the time and money spent on Yankton would have been better spent on a place in KY or MO.


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## montigre

TNMAN said:


> Bill Shane and the all of the Keowee bunch at Clemson got it done back when it took 11 ranges. Bill was S.E. pro rep, and one of my heroes as a young shooter.
> http://www.keoweebowmen.com/Club_History.html


That was a huge undertaking--thanks for sharing. Looking over their current schedule though, it seems that Keowee is no longer playing the NFAA games and is now a 3D club....


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## field14

montigre said:


> That was a huge undertaking--thanks for sharing. Looking over their current schedule though, it seems that Keowee is no longer playing the NFAA games and is now a 3D club....


One of so many that had/have taken the 3-D route. Many of those are now defunct, too.
Like you say, it is no small undertaking and isn't as simple as just having an NFAA Charter. The 1974 NFAA Nationals in Golden, Colorado started out as something special. But when push came to shove, the "help" disappeared and left the chairman and a few others high and dry. Ruination was the result from all that!
So many others had the same thing happen...not only with an NFAA Nationals, but Sectionals and even State tournaments...where the help left the small few trying to run the tournament...high and dry when the help was most needed.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## wolf44

It could possibly be done in st. louis. I know busch wildlife has 3 ranges and they have the acerage to do 5. But the three ranges that they have are in a state of disrepair as everyone has gone to 3d. It would take a bit of doing but st. louis may be a possibility, but would people come if it was built?


ccwilder3 said:


> This is not about it being a hometown tournament but being within a reasonable distance. The reason Pennsylvania always has a higher attendance than the other two sites is that it is located closer to the larger population centers. All three sites are in the far northern part of the country well away from population centers in the South and Southeast.
> 
> But it does keep coming back to the fact that there are no centrally located place with the necessary ranges. All the time and money spent on Yankton would have been better spent on a place in KY or MO.


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## wolf44

I think thats where most of the issues come from. No one wants to help unless they are getting paid


field14 said:


> One of so many that had/have taken the 3-D route. Many of those are now defunct, too.
> Like you say, it is no small undertaking and isn't as simple as just having an NFAA Charter. The 1974 NFAA Nationals in Golden, Colorado started out as something special. But when push came to shove, the "help" disappeared and left the chairman and a few others high and dry. Ruination was the result from all that!
> So many others had the same thing happen...not only with an NFAA Nationals, but Sectionals and even State tournaments...where the help left the small few trying to run the tournament...high and dry when the help was most needed.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


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## ArcheryNut2006

Flights from San Antionio to Sioux Falls are just over $400, to Omaha, NE just under $400. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. Yes, you have to get to Yankton from there, but you would have to do that no matter where it was held. Yes, it is not in your back yard, but it cannot be in everyone's back yard.


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## mag41vance

One thing for sure, Field archers can be a temperamental bunch! :wink:


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## shamlin

No kidding, I am a newby in regards to field archery bit I have been in archery for 20+ years. I have always catered to the 3D game and within the last 5 years started Indoor and within the last 2 Field. So when I compare all the organizations as a whole they all have their issues, but tournament venue is one that has to be addresses. I have read many comments about the "droves leaving the NFAA" well let me tell you that is not happening in archery as a whole. There is a major increase in archery the last two years. The ASA/IBO tournaments have seen exponential increase attendance year over year the last 3 years. There is a 1300+ average per Regional tournament. The ASA seen this rapid growth and removed one of the long time host cities to move it to a location closer to Metropolitan city and larger to handle the influx of new shooters. They get it and did something about it. The "old guard" in the NFAA seems to be OK with stagnant growth. I am an avid archer and would love to see the NFAA capitalize on this, but based off the comments I have read that isn't going to happen. I thoroughly enjoy shooting field and love to travel with my shooting family to National level events, but when figuring the costs it is not feasible. $400 dollars a flight may not seem like much, but when buying for 3 it is a big pill! I can get to most other major metro locations for well under $300 which could allow me and family to shoot that event. 
I am not looking for a shoot in "my backyard"; never said that. Just a more "travel friendly" location than Yankton. I used to shoot a bunch of trapshooting, until I realized the organization is run by a bunch of old school cronies who will never change the way the organization is run and thus the sport is dying! One last thing; look at the Vegas Shoot, run by the NFAA in a major metro city and shattered attendance records last year! There is a common denominator there but people have to open their eyes to the truth.


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## Pete53

NFAA OLD GUARD,yes you are kinda right and membership has not grown,matter a fact my state of Minnesota has the MSAA which has over 2,000 members and growing and at the state indoor we have over 1,000 shooter`s and we no longer belong because of some NFAA silly rules,there is a state club that i also belong too called MAA which has less than 100 members and they belong to the NFAA ,so look at that mess. but the NFAA National Field shoot,well its paid for,its big enough,its safe to go to,and they have the people motivated to get it set up and ya its not in our back yard , i could not always take my son to all the shoots in the country either,but he made a few did ok,but if we would have had the money i am sure he would have done even better,at the last nationals a few years back cory at the nation indoor in kentucky shot a 600 111x not bad but not a winner either, so we all have kids that maybe could have done better if we could all afford to go all the time. i wish you and your family well and do understand this money thing.Pete53


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## Rolo

shamlin said:


> No kidding, I am a newby in regards to field archery bit I have been in archery for 20+ years. I have always catered to the 3D game and within the last 5 years started Indoor and within the last 2 Field. So when I compare all the organizations as a whole they all have their issues, but tournament venue is one that has to be addresses. I have read many comments about the "droves leaving the NFAA" well let me tell you that is not happening in archery as a whole. There is a major increase in archery the last two years. The ASA/IBO tournaments have seen exponential increase attendance year over year the last 3 years. There is a 1300+ average per Regional tournament. The ASA seen this rapid growth and removed one of the long time host cities to move it to a location closer to Metropolitan city and larger to handle the influx of new shooters. They get it and did something about it. The "old guard" in the NFAA seems to be OK with stagnant growth. I am an avid archer and would love to see the NFAA capitalize on this, but based off the comments I have read that isn't going to happen. I thoroughly enjoy shooting field and love to travel with my shooting family to National level events, but when figuring the costs it is not feasible. $400 dollars a flight may not seem like much, but when buying for 3 it is a big pill! I can get to most other major metro locations for well under $300 which could allow me and family to shoot that event.
> I am not looking for a shoot in "my backyard"; never said that. Just a more "travel friendly" location than Yankton. I used to shoot a bunch of trapshooting, until I realized the organization is run by a bunch of old school cronies who will never change the way the organization is run and thus the sport is dying! One last thing; look at the Vegas Shoot, run by the NFAA in a major metro city and shattered attendance records last year! There is a common denominator there but people have to open their eyes to the truth.


Just curious...Do you have any idea what it takes to set up and maintain a Field range? Do you have any idea what it takes to set up and maintain 5 Field ranges? Do you understand the difference between setting upand maintaining a Field range (or 5 of them) compared to a 3-D range? Field ranges, are by definition, permanent. The do allow for setting up and taking down and moving to the next venue.

Nor is it really "up to the NFAA" to build them at various locations near easily reached metropolitan areas. It is up to whatever club/organization to get the necessary space (acres), bales, markers, and then maintain it year after year. The differences between building and maintaining a Field range capable of hosting the National shoot (heck, maintaining and funding 2 - 28s is difficult as is) and setting up and tearing down a national/regional 3-D shoot are so vast they aren't really even comparable.


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## ccwilder3

Rolo said:


> Just curious...Do you have any idea what it takes to set up and maintain a Field range? Do you have any idea what it takes to set up and maintain 5 Field ranges? Do you understand the difference between setting upand maintaining a Field range (or 5 of them) compared to a 3-D range? Field ranges, are by definition, permanent. The do allow for setting up and taking down and moving to the next venue.
> 
> Nor is it really "up to the NFAA" to build them at various locations near easily reached metropolitan areas. It is up to whatever club/organization to get the necessary space (acres), bales, markers, and then maintain it year after year. The differences between building and maintaining a Field range capable of hosting the National shoot (heck, maintaining and funding 2 - 28s is difficult as is) and setting up and tearing down a national/regional 3-D shoot are so vast they aren't really even comparable.


The other issue is that you are asking them to build and maintain a large number of ranges when it will only be used once every three years.


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## Arrowwood

World Archery / FITA field courses are temporary, set up only for the shoot. Maybe the NFAA could do something similar.

It's true, Yankton is in the boonies - you can get a bus to Darrington or Mechanicsburg, and they have major airports nearby.


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## Rolo

Arrowwood said:


> World Archery / FITA field courses are temporary, set up only for the shoot. Maybe the NFAA could do something similar.
> 
> It's true, Yankton is in the boonies - you can get a bus to Darrington or Mechanicsburg, and they have major airports nearby.


How many?


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## Arrowwood

24 targets for 96-120 archers, at least two courses

http://www.worldarchery.org/UserFil...ns/02_Downloads/Field_Organizers_Manual-e.pdf


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## Rolo

Arrowwood said:


> 24 targets for 96-120 archers, at least two courses
> 
> http://www.worldarchery.org/UserFil...ns/02_Downloads/Field_Organizers_Manual-e.pdf


That ain't quite 5 full Field ranges of 28 bales each.


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## wa-prez

Arrowwood said:


> World Archery / FITA field courses are temporary, set up only for the shoot. Maybe the NFAA could do something similar.


This has been done for NFAA Nationals several times, I particularly remember Detroit Lakes MN and Wausau WI. Those sites either only had one permanent range or none at all, and set up the ranges just for the event. But that is a HUGE undertaking, clearing lanes, setting up the bales, measuring and staking for all the distances. It's not like a 3D course. And as another poster mentioned, the FITA Field national doesn't get so many archers, needs just two ranges (and one of those is unmarked distance).

But if an organization can find the land and the manpower / expertise, go for it!


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## Pete53

when you do the math even 5 ranges- 28 targets measured-4 people shooting per bale ,that`s 560 shooter`s starting ,so really even 5 ranges may not even be enough ,even with different starting times ? glad someone has it figured out,the man power it must take to get this task done. all`s i can say is NFAA thanks for doing it ! Pete53


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## brtesite

Arrowwood said:


> World Archery / FITA field courses are temporary, set up only for the shoot. Maybe the NFAA could do something similar.
> 
> It's true, Yankton is in the boonies - you can get a bus to Darrington or Mechanicsburg, and they have major airports nearby.


don't believe that there any any buses that can take you to the range. Still need a car. Darrington is about the same distance from the airport as Yankton is


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## tmorelli

wolf44 said:


> It could possibly be done in st. louis. I know busch wildlife has 3 ranges and they have the acerage to do 5. But the three ranges that they have are in a state of disrepair as everyone has gone to 3d. It would take a bit of doing but st. louis may be a possibility, but would people come if it was built?


That's a big 10/4.... If it isn't put on the same damn weekend as the ASA classic.


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## FiFi

Lots of complainers, we are driving down to the IFAA worlds also in Yankton, gonna takes us a couple days to get there.....we are still going. We go for the event not the place


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## field14

tmorelli said:


> That's a big 10/4.... If it isn't put on the same damn weekend as the ASA classic.


It is the ASA Classic that infringes upon the NFAA National Outdoor. The ASA puts their classic on the same week as the NFAA National Outdoor, not the other way around.

The NFAA National Field tournament has been being held the last week of July since long before the existence of the ASA or the IBO...so it isn't the NFAA that is "going onto the turf" of 3-D...it is the other way around. In addition, there are only so many weekends in the summer, too...and no matter which one you pick...it will conflict with some other event, be it archery, 3-D, or anything else.
Way back when, a couple of the "leaders" of the 3-d world publicly stated that they would "put the NFAA out of business." FACT!

Blast away folks, but no matter when the NFAA could "change" that weekend they've had for YEARS...some other org would schedule on top of it, period.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14

wa-prez said:


> This has been done for NFAA Nationals several times, I particularly remember Detroit Lakes MN and Wausau WI. Those sites either only had one permanent range or none at all, and set up the ranges just for the event. But that is a HUGE undertaking, clearing lanes, setting up the bales, measuring and staking for all the distances. It's not like a 3D course. And as another poster mentioned, the FITA Field national doesn't get so many archers, needs just two ranges (and one of those is unmarked distance).
> 
> But if an organization can find the land and the manpower / expertise, go for it!


Yes it has been done in the PAST several times. I can remember when there were multiple bidders in the Central USA, multiple bidders in the East, SE, and the West, SW, too. But as people got busier, their jobs started forcing them to work odd hours, weekends, and such, the volunteer base disappeared.
You cannot layout, design, setup, and build five 28 target field courses without a lot of people helping. In addition, it cannot just be thrown together with narrow lanes and obstacles like a 3-D course. There are safety rules and setup requirements that must be followed and then the courses must be approved by an NFAA Director prior to its use for competition. One huge difference is that the lanes have to be wide enough to accommodate at least two, and preferably 4 shooters on the stakes at a time. Another one that can really be tough is that the over head clearance MUST be such that even the lightest bows can have an unobstructed path to the entire target face. That means the lane trimming on the longer targets has to be pretty high and how high depends upon the lay of the land. Safety angles, trails from one target to the next, as few "walk backs" as possible...all come into play.

But, besides all this, it comes right back to the fact that it has come down to the fact that there are simply no NEW bidders willing to bid upon and host the NFAA National Outdoor tournament. The NFAA would gladly entertain other reasonable bids. So, those that are belly aching...get out and scour the areas, find a spot or a range or a club, and approach them and politic them into submitting a bid. It won't "come to you", you gotta get out and get it.
The "gimme, gimme, gimme attitude" won't cut it when it comes to getting the next Nationals near you so YOU don't have to travel.


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## shamlin

wa-prez said:


> This has been done for NFAA Nationals several times, I particularly remember Detroit Lakes MN and Wausau WI. Those sites either only had one permanent range or none at all, and set up the ranges just for the event. But that is a HUGE undertaking, clearing lanes, setting up the bales, measuring and staking for all the distances. It's not like a 3D course. And as another poster mentioned, the FITA Field national doesn't get so many archers, needs just two ranges (and one of those is unmarked distance).
> 
> But if an organization can find the land and the manpower / expertise, go for it!


The 3D world currently sets up and maintains each site tri-fold over what you are suggesting for NFAA. Currently the ASA sets up over 8+ 20 target ranges, cutting them in, setting up approximately 4 yardage stakes per target and not including 2 practice ranges and 2 3D practice ranges. All this work is currently done at the 6 regional events per year at the 6 independent sites across the US. It can be done.


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## field14

shamlin said:


> The 3D world currently sets up and maintains each site tri-fold over what you are suggesting for NFAA. Currently the ASA sets up over 8+ 20 target ranges, cutting them in, setting up approximately 4 yardage stakes per target and not including 2 practice ranges and 2 3D practice ranges. All this work is currently done at the 6 regional events per year at the 6 independent sites across the US. It can be done.


3-D ranges and field ranges aren't even close to being the same with regard to setup. There are LOTS more stakes on each 28 target field, hunter, and animal course than there are on any 20 target 3-D course! Each range has to be set up to handle CUBS, Youths, and Adults. In addition, you have the specified and LABELED and MEASURED shooting stakes, each color coded and labeled with the distance. Field, hunter and animal rounds are MARKED distance and accurate with zero tolerance. In addition each one has a color code and each range MUST be setup to handle each of the 3 types of rounds potentially or actually shot on an individual 28 target course.
Not so on 3-D. get it close, toss in the stake and walk on. 
Very few 3-D courses have wide shooting lanes and are set so that only ONE shooter is on a stake at a time...huge difference.

Next comes...just who on this green Earth is going to go out there, pound the bricks and find 6 "sites" to host the NFAA Outdoor Nationals each year on a rotational basis? Huh? 6 sites, all on the premise that one of those 6 "might" get the tournament once every 3 years, or maybe less frequent than that?
You got to be kidding me, don't you?

YES, setting up those courses for the Field, Hunter, and Animal shooting positions and distances (all marked and accurate), plus cutting the WIDE shooting lanes with HIGH clearances above, and within the safety guidelines, cutting the trails, and setting the bales CAN be done. No doubt about that. It isn't going to happen with only 4-5 people doing the work, however.

Darrington is good at it. Mechanicsburg is good at it. Yankton has rebuilt and those ranges are static for the most part. Thus there is little to no work of having to install the bales, measure the distances and set the stakes via the color coded requirements, directional signs, target numbers and all that...because it is installed and all that is required is some mowing, trimming and maintenance. They aren't starting from scratch every time.

Gotta get out and FIND these 'ghost hosts" and then convince them that it is worth the work to install more ranges than they have...IF they have enough land to do it with!

Obviously those whiners on here have never really had much to do with planning, organizing, laying out, checking, and then installing a full 28 target field course (or several of them) that can handle field, hunter, and animal shooting positions for CUBS, Youths, and Adults and be correctly coded.
ASA, IBO doesn't have to "code things"; there aren't 3 different "rounds" being shot on each of the courses..ONE set of stakes, maybe what 4 stakes max at most per shooting target? Unmarked distances, just toss the stake in the ground and move on. 
Not even close by comparison.
Of course then there is the tear down/tear out of all those stakes...super easy for a 3-D course...not so easy for a field course where some of the targets have 2, 3, 4, or more bales and ALL of them have numerous stakes and signs to deal with. You know not what you deal with on a field course vs. a 3-D course.

However the big plus on a complete field course (including hunter and animal stakes on the course, too) is that once this is done, you only have to trim and mow the course. Before the tournament, you trim and mow, check bales for "tightness", put up the target faces, which only takes 1 hour max per 28 target course), and then register the people and shoot. When the tournament is over? Easy...Leave the course alone. You can shoot those targets for several more weeks. No need to take down the targets, the bales, or pick up bowracks and stakes for storage. You have something to shoot at all times.
NOT SO ON A 3-D course...you leave out the 3-D's overnight and many will be gone within a short time span! I could go on and on about MORE work required for 3-D's...but enough is enough.


field14 (Tom D.)


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## montigre

shamlin said:


> The 3D world currently sets up and maintains each site tri-fold over what you are suggesting for NFAA. Currently the ASA sets up over 8+ 20 target ranges, cutting them in, setting up approximately 4 yardage stakes per target and not including 2 practice ranges and 2 3D practice ranges. All this work is currently done at the 6 regional events per year at the 6 independent sites across the US. It can be done.


Huge difference in the layout and needed work to complete a field range versus a 3D range:

Field range: 
View attachment 1952312



3D range:
View attachment 1952318


Some 3D ranges I have seen have been just a single lane where you walk down one side shooting 10 targets and walk back the other side to shoot the remaining 10 targets...pretty simple design....


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## Arrowwood

Love the can't-do attitudes. Reminds me of the folks in our club who didn't want a field range.


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## montigre

No, it is not an attitude, it is a simple reality. Without a body of individuals (not just a few of the same people) who are willing to design, construct, and most of all, maintain a 5-field course that meets the standards for the national event, then I really do not see the outdoor nationals moving from the 3 locations it is currently held....


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## tmorelli

I see no reason to believe anything other than leaving it (the game, the course requirements, the org, etc) as is, will continue to result in the death of field archery. The game is dead or on it's death bed at minimum. I hate to say that because I love shooting field and if it were more available, it would take some of my 3d time...but it isn't....and the situation isn't improving.


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## field14

montigre said:


> Huge difference in the layout and needed work to complete a field range versus a 3D range:
> 
> Field range:
> View attachment 1952312
> 
> 
> 
> 3D range:
> View attachment 1952318
> 
> 
> Some 3D ranges I have seen have been just a single lane where you walk down one side shooting 10 targets and walk back the other side to shoot the remaining 10 targets...pretty simple design....


Yep, and "walk-backs" will KILL a field course and at least double, if not quadruple the amount of time it takes to shoot even a 14-target set, let alone a full 28. Walk'backs on FIELD courses are to be avoided, period.
Once again, however, with field courses, the targets are put out, the tournament is completed, and the same target faces are left up for practice for several weeks before the target faces (NOT the entire course) need to be changed.
With 3-D, you flat cannot leave those 3-D animals out there to "practice on."  Many insurance companies for archery ranges demand that the course shooting lanes and paths be "set" and safely laid out, even for 3-D, but many 3-D clubs change their layouts indisciminately in violation of their insurance policy.

The can't do attitude comes from the FACT that there are so many out there that will talk a great show of how "he/she" CAN DO this or that, but when it comes right down to walking the walk and getting it DONE...they, too disappear. It is one thing to talk a good show...it is yet another to put the show together and get it DONE!

I'm still waiting for these 'ghost field courses' in Dallas, Atlanta, and other "population centers" in the Central area to appear? Just where are they, and if they can be done, then WHO is gonna walk the walk and get it done to take the "strain" off of Yankton...and those 'poor folks' that bad-mouth Yankton every 3rd year...same ole story...but nobody comes to the forefront with BIDS for the Central area of the USA.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14

tmorelli said:


> I see no reason to believe anything other than leaving it (the game, the course requirements, the org, etc) as is, will continue to result in the death of field archery. The game is dead or on it's death bed at minimum. I hate to say that because I love shooting field and if it were more available, it would take some of my 3d time...but it isn't....and the situation isn't improving.


Oh, but it isn't dead at all...it is only supposedly dying because of people that will talk the talk, bad-mouth the heck out of it, offer criticisms, and seem to have the solutions...but won't walk the walk to get it "fixed." It is way easier to talk up 3-D and bad mouth "field shooting" than it is to do something about PROmoting field shooting games, including the TARGET type of rounds outdoors!
People say they "love field shooting"....but how many really get out and promote the heck out of it? DANGED FEW, that's for sure.
They expect the NFAA to do everything for them..but won't promote the game they claim to thoroughly enjoy. Once again talking a lot of lip service...but doing NOTHING to promote the game.
Death throes my foot...only because of those out there that won't walk the walk and jack their jaws full of ideas and won't act upon them. When was the last time YOU took some fellow shooters you know and took them out on a field course to show them the ropes...WITHOUT bad-mouthing the system and comparing it to how "easy" 3-D is? Scaring the heck out of them by making them shoot the 80 walk up right off the bat, and then bad-mouthing this rule or that rule that "you" don't happen to like?


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## tmorelli

I didn't talk up 3d....or down about field. 

I'm a member at the only club around with field. I shoot our leagues and am one of the few at our state shoot. I introduce anyone who'll listen and/or participate. 

What else should I do?

I'm moving soon (hopefully) to my farm where I'm building my own field course. I'm sure I'll have invitational type shoots. 

But, if it isn't NFAA's responsibility to promote their namesake.....I don't see how it comes down to anyone else. 

Change or die and its already dying or dead. If you can't see the forest for the trees....I can't help you.


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## shamlin

Field14 is like so many others where he defends the NFAA to the umpteenth degree, offers tons of excuses, but zero solutions! I applaud his un-dying support of the organization, and I applaud Yankton for hosting, setting up, and running the Nationals, but one can argue that an obscure location like Yankton will never draw the type of crowds we see in Vegas and other sites. I heard a rumor that the President of the NFAA is from Yankton therefore the site for the National Headquarters and Tournament. If this is the case that is a sad state of affairs for the organization.
I too really love Field Archery and down here in South Texas we have multiple locations to shoot at. But to shoot at any higher level than local and State tournaments just is not feasible. Maybe the answer is to simplify the game as the "logistics and work" involved in hosting a tournament are just too complicated. I just shot a FITA type course this past weekend where there were portable type target butts that could potentially be ideal for a course. They were very portable, lightweight, and will stop any arrow! The 80 yard butts were also large enough to handle two target scenarios with up to 4 individual targets. These target butts could easily be stacked in a trailer for ease of portability. Regarding the vastness of a course layout, why doesn't the NFAA do what 3D does by creating more exterior lanes poking out from a central walkway. This would decrease the layout time, minimize the walking, and make it easier to put up and take down. I know the hardline traditionalists will freak out over these suggestions but they may be solutions to keeping the organizations alive and prosper.


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## carlosii

shamlin said:


> Field14 is like so many others where he defends the NFAA to the umpteenth degree, offers tons of excuses, but zero solutions! I applaud his un-dying support of the organization, and I applaud Yankton for hosting, setting up, and running the Nationals, but one can argue that an obscure location like Yankton will never draw the type of crowds we see in Vegas and other sites. I heard a rumor that the President of the NFAA is from Yankton therefore the site for the National Headquarters and Tournament. If this is the case that is a sad state of affairs for the organization.
> I too really love Field Archery and down here in South Texas we have multiple locations to shoot at. But to shoot at any higher level than local and State tournaments just is not feasible. Maybe the answer is to simplify the game as the "logistics and work" involved in hosting a tournament are just too complicated. I just shot a FITA type course this past weekend where there were portable type target butts that could potentially be ideal for a course. They were very portable, lightweight, and will stop any arrow! The 80 yard butts were also large enough to handle two target scenarios with up to 4 individual targets. These target butts could easily be stacked in a trailer for ease of portability. Regarding the vastness of a course layout, why doesn't the NFAA do what 3D does by creating more exterior lanes poking out from a central walkway. This would decrease the layout time, minimize the walking, and make it easier to put up and take down. I know the hardline traditionalists will freak out over these suggestions but they may be solutions to keeping the organizations alive and prosper.


The NFAA prez is from Yankton. When they moved the HQ from the West coast a few years ago there was a lot of discussion as to where to locate. Don't know enough about the history or the politics to render an opinion. I've got a trip to Yankton on my bucket list for sure.


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## field14

shamlin said:


> Field14 is like so many others where he defends the NFAA to the umpteenth degree, offers tons of excuses, but zero solutions! I applaud his un-dying support of the organization, and I applaud Yankton for hosting, setting up, and running the Nationals, but one can argue that an obscure location like Yankton will never draw the type of crowds we see in Vegas and other sites. I heard a rumor that the President of the NFAA is from Yankton therefore the site for the National Headquarters and Tournament. If this is the case that is a sad state of affairs for the organization.
> I too really love Field Archery and down here in South Texas we have multiple locations to shoot at. But to shoot at any higher level than local and State tournaments just is not feasible. Maybe the answer is to simplify the game as the "logistics and work" involved in hosting a tournament are just too complicated. I just shot a FITA type course this past weekend where there were portable type target butts that could potentially be ideal for a course. They were very portable, lightweight, and will stop any arrow! The 80 yard butts were also large enough to handle two target scenarios with up to 4 individual targets. These target butts could easily be stacked in a trailer for ease of portability. Regarding the vastness of a course layout, why doesn't the NFAA do what 3D does by creating more exterior lanes poking out from a central walkway. This would decrease the layout time, minimize the walking, and make it easier to put up and take down. I know the hardline traditionalists will freak out over these suggestions but they may be solutions to keeping the organizations alive and prosper.


With regard to changing the field and hunter rounds to something more "modern", I agree. Getting rid of the fans all together would be a big plus, in my opinion. I would even say that perhaps shortening up the field and hunter rounds to 10 targets per side could be considered.
However in saying all this, you would have better success giving the directors a root canal as opposed to even trying to get the traditional field and hunter rounds modernized.
I don't think any agenda item to change the field and hunters and animal round to only 10 targets would ever float with the current administration of the NFAA.
As far as promotion goes, I, too, agree that the NFAA, especially the Vice President, whose responsibility is promotion of the NFAA, is rather lax in PROmoting the field and outdoor rounds, the 20 pin awards, and other incentives that are available to the NFAA membership. You rarely see anything about the large series of awards that are available for reaching certain milestones on your field prowess. What is worse, many of the old farts, when/if they take newbies out to show them the ropes ever mention the 20 pins, the state patches for each level they reach on a 14 target round, the Order or Robin Hood Award, the 500 club patch and certificate. Let alone zero mention of all the great awards the NFAA has for the bow hunters!
Yep, the NFAA is very lax, and most of the NFAA members are really lax about the PROmotion of the game and its "rewards" system. I haven't seen a person at a table with 20 pins available in so long I cannot remember the last time! Of course, I must admit that I also haven't shot a Sectional or National event in a long time either; but the last time I did...there wasn't anyone around with those awards to give to the people. They leave it up to the individual to find out about it and then apply for it!!!

All people yak about is that "horrible 80 yarder" that scares the heck out of any newbie and most 3-Ders and bow hunters. I think the old farts yak about the 80 yarder to show off how they aren't "sceered" of the 80 and the longer targets.
Or like on this thread, every time the turn for Yankton comes up, there are those bad-mouthing it to high heaven, even though they knew about Yankton's turn 2 years ago. Same ole griping and crying...but nobody doing anything to try to get other bids from the Central area by PROmoting the field archery game. They want everyone else to do it for them....gimmee, gimmee, gimmee mentality.
THAT is the solution to the problem...go out and PROmote field archery and work towards finding some clubs to bid on the NFAA Outdoor Nationals. Then, maybe, just maybe every third year wouldn't be in Yankton, or Darrington, or Mechanicsburg...there would be other bidders to compete for hosting the event.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## shamlin

I agree with everything you said. By the way, I freaking looooove the 80 yard target. It is one of the major reasons I took up field. I love the challenge of the longer shots, they are a blast!! I am a hard line 3D'er, but the Indoor game and Field games are a nice break from the monotony of shooting just 30 arrows a tournament! In the Field and Indoor game I am shooting well over 100 arrows a day including practice. And I am in archery to fling arrows. Judging yardages is fun, but I am beginning to think that 3D is more about that, than executing a great shot! Field and Indoor are more indicative of true archery skill; you know the yardage, feel/measure the wind, now go and execute the shot, no excuses. 
I for one would love to see the Field game elevate itself to former glory, but I hesitate to get involved due to the "political" barriers that obviously exist. It could mean a lot of wasted time to basically get no where in an attempt to shift the current paradigm.


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## brtesite

shamlin said:


> Field14 is like so many others where he defends the NFAA to the umpteenth degree, offers tons of excuses, but zero solutions! I applaud his un-dying support of the organization, and I applaud Yankton for hosting, setting up, and running the Nationals, but one can argue that an obscure location like Yankton will never draw the type of crowds we see in Vegas and other sites. I heard a rumor that the President of the NFAA is from Yankton therefore the site for the National Headquarters and Tournament. If this is the case that is a sad state of affairs for the organization.
> I too really love Field Archery and down here in South Texas we have multiple locations to shoot at. But to shoot at any higher level than local and State tournaments just is not feasible. Maybe the answer is to simplify the game as the "logistics and work" involved in hosting a tournament are just too complicated. I just shot a FITA type course this past weekend where there were portable type target butts that could potentially be ideal for a course. They were very portable, lightweight, and will stop any arrow! The 80 yard butts were also large enough to handle two target scenarios with up to 4 individual targets. These target butts could easily be stacked in a trailer for ease of portability. Regarding the vastness of a course layout, why doesn't the NFAA do what 3D does by creating more exterior lanes poking out from a central walkway. This would decrease the layout time, minimize the walking, and make it easier to put up and take down. I know the hardline traditionalists will freak out over these suggestions but they may be solutions to keeping the organizations alive and prosper.


It is not a rumor that the Prez is from Yankton, it is a fact. It has nothing to do with why Hdqs is there. When the Nfaa had the opportunity to move from Ca. , Every one in the country was invited to submit proposals as to what their area could bring to the table for a location for the NFAA . Trust me , there were only a couple. What they offered was not worth a doz arrows. Did the Prez lobby for his town, yes he did. I would have too for my town , but I know that my town would not have given 1 sq. foot of ground to the NFAA. As a voting member of the council, and a free thinker, there was no other way any of us could not have voted for Yankton. I still can't believe What that town has done for the NFAA. As I recall, there were no bids from Tx.
There are only 2 places that can out draw Yankton, & that is Mechanicsburg & now the defunct Watkins glen. You can't include Vegas or Louisville. They are Indoor shoots which are only week ends & indoor . Maybe we need weekends for the the outdoor Nationals. 
Is Yankton in a far out location, yes it is, just like Darrington. Try getting any large metropolitan area what Yankton has given . Ain't gonna happen. If I go or not, I'm thankful that there will always be a place for a National if no one else wants it. 
AS for laying out the ranges as you suggest,the only one the Nfaa Hdqs is directly involved with is the one in Yankton. The lay out is the responsibility of the host club.


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## Rolo

brtesite said:


> It is not a rumor that the Prez is from Yankton, it is a fact. It has nothing to do with why Hdqs is there. When the Nfaa had the opportunity to move from Ca. , Every one in the country was invited to submit proposals as to what their area could bring to the table for a location for the NFAA . Trust me , there were only a couple. What they offered was not worth a doz arrows. Did the Prez lobby for his town, yes he did. I would have too for my town , but I know that my town would not have given 1 sq. foot of ground to the NFAA. As a voting member of the council, and a free thinker, there was no other way any of us could not have voted for Yankton. I still can't believe What that town has done for the NFAA. As I recall, there were no bids from Tx.
> There are only 2 places that can out draw Yankton, & that is Mechanicsburg & now the defunct Watkins glen. You can't include Vegas or Louisville. They are Indoor shoots which are only week ends & indoor . Maybe we need weekends for the the outdoor Nationals.
> Is Yankton in a far out location, yes it is, just like Darrington. Try getting any large metropolitan area what Yankton has given . Ain't gonna happen. If I go or not, I'm thankful that there will always be a place for a National if no one else wants it.
> AS for laying out the ranges as you suggest,the only one the Nfaa Hdqs is directly involved with is the one in Yankton. The lay out is the responsibility of the host club.


Thanks Mike. :thumbs_up

Personally, I can say that helping to maintain a range consisting of two 28s is a royal PITA and takes a lot of time from very few people willing to help. I'll add that it is a public range that anyone can shoot for free (and also complain for free about A-Z without doing much to help). We are considering adding a third range to the mix too. Dedicated Field/hunter/Animal. Would be great if we can, and would also suck as far as the added costs and expenses and time. The amount of land that is necessary for 3 full 28s or even 2 and a 14 is crazy big. 5 full ranges is huge. I'm convinced a number of folks don't have a good idea of what it takes to set-up and maintain permanent ranges, and likewise the logistics of setting up temporary ranges...especially with the guidelines.

Are there potential modifications to the game that could be made and discussed...I'm sure there are, but without fundamentally changing the game, I don't see how the changes would dramatically alter participation. Getting rid of the fan or some of the WUs isn't going to do much. Reducing the number of targets, especially at a National event, not sure that is the ticket.

Promotion and availability at the local level (with some modifications) seems to be the best immediate route. That falls back on the clubs who have ranges, and members of those clubs. Most folks that I have introduced to Field love it, once they grasp it (introductions don't usually start with a crash course on the nuances of the rules). But a lot of folks are 'intimidated' by what they have heard about it. The rules are fairly simple. And maybe it's a Mountain West thing, but most peeps out here enjoy shooting arrows at 80 yards...not so much the birdies.


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## field14

Rolo said:


> Thanks Mike. :thumbs_up
> 
> Personally, I can say that helping to maintain a range consisting of two 28s is a royal PITA and takes a lot of time from very few people willing to help. I'll add that it is a public range that anyone can shoot for free (and also complain for free about A-Z without doing much to help). We are considering adding a third range to the mix too. Dedicated Field/hunter/Animal. Would be great if we can, and would also suck as far as the added costs and expenses and time. The amount of land that is necessary for 3 full 28s or even 2 and a 14 is crazy big. 5 full ranges is huge. I'm convinced a number of folks don't have a good idea of what it takes to set-up and maintain permanent ranges, and likewise the logistics of setting up temporary ranges...especially with the guidelines.
> 
> Are there potential modifications to the game that could be made and discussed...I'm sure there are, but without fundamentally changing the game, I don't see how the changes would dramatically alter participation. Getting rid of the fan or some of the WUs isn't going to do much. Reducing the number of targets, especially at a National event, not sure that is the ticket.
> 
> Promotion and availability at the local level (with some modifications) seems to be the best immediate route. That falls back on the clubs who have ranges, and members of those clubs. Most folks that I have introduced to Field love it, once they grasp it (introductions don't usually start with a crash course on the nuances of the rules). But a lot of folks are 'intimidated' by what they have heard about it. The rules are fairly simple. And maybe it's a Mountain West thing, but most peeps out here enjoy shooting arrows at 80 yards...not so much the birdies.


Rolo,
I have a lot of first-hand experience laying out, planning, organizing, and installing 14-target units and even full 28 target units. It is very, very time consuming and difficult. BUT, if planned correctly and preventive maintenance is performed, the range can be trimmed, mowed and ready to roll for a tournament in a matter of a couple of hours' time. It takes less than an hour to put up new target faces, and after those faces are up, you shoot the tournament and don't have any work to do with regard to the range after the event is over. Well, maybe somebody could walk through and pick up the junk the people leave behind instead of using the waste receptacles, ha.
Preventive maintenance I say? Yes. It is simple. When you shoot the course, take some wrenches with you to check tightness of the bales and how secure they are. If they are loose...tighten them. If there are sticks and limbs in the shooting lanes...by golly...pick them up and toss them aside while you are there. If there are limbs that need trimming, make note of it to take care of that next time you are out there. Don't sit there, shoot the course time and time again and let the crap build up. All that does is add to the prep time and maintenance time on a work party! Do it as you go!

I'm intimately familiar with Casper Mountain; that is where I started my field archery career. If you haven't helped install bales, shooting stakes (a real treat to install on Casper mountain, ha) and other items on Casper Mountain, try it; it is a real "treat!" When I was there, there was only the field on the aspen side, and the hunter on the pine side. Each one was a full 28 target layout, with target #14 as far from the picnic area as you could get. Thus, you shot 28 targets before you got back to the picnic area. The practice area as it was in the 1990's, the last time I shot the course, was cleared of the tall sagebrush. Bet you never knew who did that clearing back in 1970?
Well, the initial clearing of all of that sagebrush was done my me, and a fella by the name of Corky Story. We did it over the course of a few weeks' time, several hours a day, and then we'd go shoot 28 targets. That sagebrush then was a couple of feet high, and we did it with cross buck saws and axes. If you've been up on Casper Mountain, or next time you go up there, take a gander at how difficult is really is to install those 84 targets, measure the distances, clear the lanes and trails, and to maintain that! 
Yankton is a paradise for accessibility alongside of Casper Mountain!

Lots of 3-Ders I know, once they've tried field shooting do realize that they get to shoot a lot of arrows in a pretty short period of time (no waiting 10-15 minutes or more between each shot, 112 arrows per round instead of only 30 or 40), or on a full weekend shoot, 224 arrows for score for a field and hunter, and an additional 28 shots for an animal round, versus 40 for a major 3-D event.
Wish I knew the answer to PROmote the field ranges and events. However something as simple as getting a flyer for a FIELD shoot posted in most archery ranges is like getting teeth out of a chicken! They will either take it and hide it behind the announcements for 3-D events, or won't put it up at all.
It isn't all up to the NFAA to try to PROmote the NFAA in every single state. Yes, the Directors are supposed to be helping to promote it, but in reality, this all starts from the individual member and goes UP the ladder, not the reverse. Cannot sit back and expect the administration to do ALL the work, and you simply reap the benefits.
If you want our field game to take off...then it is up to each and every one of us to get off the porch and do something about promoting it.
field14 (Tom D.)


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## Arcus

field14 said:


> All people yak about is that "horrible 80 yarder" that scares the heck out of any newbie and most 3-Ders and bow hunters.


I've also heard that excuse for not shooting field. Really? It's only 2 arrows out of 112.


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## Arcus

shamlin said:


> Judging yardages is fun, but I am beginning to think that 3D is more about that, than executing a great shot! Field and Indoor are more indicative of true archery skill; you know the yardage, feel/measure the wind, now go and execute the shot, no excuses.


:thumbs_up


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## field14

Arcus said:


> I've also heard that excuse for not shooting field. Really? It's only 2 arrows out of 112.


What is really the hypocrisy of it all is that those same 3-Ders and bow hunters that whine and cry and are scared of only TWO shots out of 112 concerning MARKED distance at a target over 2 FEET in Diameter and a bale even larger...will spend money and shoot arrow after arrow after arrow at an UNMARKED 3-D animal that is in excess of 100 yards. They'll lose or break arrows doing this...and laugh about it, only to do it again!
Unbelievable, but it is fact.

Same goes with the 900 round. 60 yards max (Marked distance to boot) at a target that is 4 FEET in diameter, and lots of bow hunters will balk at that as being too hard to hit? Again, however see the above paragraph as to what they will do? Hypocrisy or what?


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## Rolo

field14 said:


> I'm intimately familiar with Casper Mountain; that is where I started my field archery career. If you haven't helped install bales, shooting stakes (a real treat to install on Casper mountain, ha) and other items on Casper Mountain, try it; it is a real "treat!" When I was there, there was only the field on the aspen side, and the hunter on the pine side. Each one was a full 28 target layout, with target #14 as far from the picnic area as you could get. Thus, you shot 28 targets before you got back to the picnic area. The practice area as it was in the 1990's, the last time I shot the course, was cleared of the tall sagebrush. Bet you never knew who did that clearing back in 1970?


In the last 2 years, 66 target butts replaced (approx. 400 lbs each, at least it felt that way). Concrete pads poured for all the butts. Re-measured and re-staked.

Yes, I'm intimately familiar with that range.


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## field14

Rolo said:


> In the last 2 years, 66 target butts replaced (approx. 400 lbs each, at least it felt that way). Concrete pads poured for all the butts. Re-measured and re-staked.
> 
> Yes, I'm intimately familiar with that range.


You obviously know what it is like to do that now. Imagine what it was like in the 1960's when there weren't four wheelers and all the gas/electric powered tools to help. Imagine carting those Excelsior bales down to the bottom by hand, one by one, along with those RR Ties the bales used to sit upon. Along with making all those shooting stakes, painting them the appropriate color codes and labeling them, then trying to get them beat into the rock?
What a beautiful setting for an archery range, isn't it? Probably the toughest archery range I've ever shot upon or ever will shoot upon. But I used to go up there and rather than waste the day, would shoot at least 56 targets, and ofter two rounds of field and two rounds of hunter. The animal range wasn't yet installed when I lived in Casper; it was on the plans, but simply hadn't been done.


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## Rolo

field14 said:


> You obviously know what it is like to do that now. Imagine what it was like in the 1960's when there weren't four wheelers and all the gas/electric powered tools to help. Imagine carting those Excelsior bales down to the bottom by hand, one by one, along with those RR Ties the bales used to sit upon. Along with making all those shooting stakes, painting them the appropriate color codes and labeling them, then trying to get them beat into the rock?
> What a beautiful setting for an archery range, isn't it? Probably the toughest archery range I've ever shot upon or ever will shoot upon. But I used to go up there and rather than waste the day, would shoot at least 56 targets, and ofter two rounds of field and two rounds of hunter. The animal range wasn't yet installed when I lived in Casper; it was on the plans, but simply hadn't been done.



Well...the rocks are still there, and the stakes don't paint themselves, but yeah, 4-wheelers help. It will be a ball of fun if another 14 or 28 get added.

One thing about that range...there ain't a level shot on the entire course on either side. Would be an ideal range (other than some people's travel logistic concerns) to hold a National, but the room ain't there to get 5 ranges.


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## field14

Rolo said:


> Well...the rocks are still there, and the stakes don't paint themselves, but yeah, 4-wheelers help. It will be a ball of fun if another 14 or 28 get added.
> 
> One thing about that range...there ain't a level shot on the entire course on either side. Would be an ideal range (other than some people's travel logistic concerns) to hold a National, but the room ain't there to get 5 ranges.


The range is too inaccessible for parking. There isn't any water anywhere around, so that would all have to be carted in by hand. Restoom Facilities would be a huge problem, too 
There are plenty of spots Natrona County would likely allow for installing the other TWO ranges needed to get 5-28 target ranges. *That, believe it or not, was discussed and worked out sometime around 1971, but it just didn't come about to put in the bid to the NFAA!*!!
Is it still called the Natrona County Archery Range?
The distance from town, the long drive, the ROUGH roads into there would all create havoc for a National Tournament. BUT, it isn't problematical for a Sectional tournament at all. We held the Rocky Mountain Regional tournament up there in 1970 and it wasn't a problem at all. BUT I think we only had something like 150 shooters attend, too. Many Wyoming State Field tournaments were held up there also.

But, there is no way, IMHO, that Casper Mountain, as much as we would like to see it, could host the Nationals what with just the logistics of getting to and from the range, food, water, and rest room facilities. Just my opinion, but one never knows for sure what or what cannot be done if the right people tackle the problems and offer solutions. You already have 3 28 target units installed, which is way more than some of the other potential host sites have on hand.
The "open land" on the way into the main ranges offers up some really nice potential for only two more ranges to be temporarily put in and taken out when the event is over. On BOTH sides of that slope, too


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## ahunter55

Fellas, I want to THANK the SMALL % that make these larger events possible. In my younger years I was one of those "few" doing 'Lots" of work for the enjoyment of others (local & state level). Never is everyone happy. I WILL be attending/Shooting my 1st Nationals at Yankton this year in the Master. Senior Bowhunting Division (2014 is my 58th year in Archery/Bowhunting). I look forward to another FIRST in my Archery Journy & hope to meet & make some new friends. I "wished" many times in the past I could have shot the Nationals but finances & work never allowed that privilege. I did compete in many State tournaments (field & target) + Sectionals in those years when they were TWO day events. 3-D back then was "NOVELTY" only shoots. Go about discussing your pros & cons, I'm practicing for a win. Oh, a close family friend said Yankton is a great place & lots to enjoy..


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## Kstigall

When the headquarters in CA was sold and moved to Yankton, SD of all places the writing on the wall was obvious. A part of me would like to see the ASA or similar start a winter indoor spot tournament trail using a 5 spot or USArchery 3 spot target.


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## Blinddog

I have come to the conclusion that as archers we are without a doubt are worst enemy. We complain about shoot locations because we don't have a big variety of things to do when we are off the range. We want to change the rules because we don't like to shoot in the shade when the target is in the sun. The people that shoot blue bows don't like the people that shoot red bows so they will not support their tournament. If you don't like the way things are run then get involved and start making positive changes. I am looking forward to shooting at Yankton.


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## Rolo

field14 said:


> The range is too inaccessible for parking. There isn't any water anywhere around, so that would all have to be carted in by hand. Restoom Facilities would be a huge problem, too
> There are plenty of spots Natrona County would likely allow for installing the other TWO ranges needed to get 5-28 target ranges.
> 
> Is it still called the Natrona County Archery Range?
> 
> The distance from town, the long drive, the ROUGH roads into there would all create havoc for a National Tournament.
> 
> But, there is no way, IMHO, that Casper Mountain, as much as we would like to see it, could host the Nationals what with just the logistics of getting to and from the range, food, water, and rest room facilities. Just my opinion, but one never knows for sure what or what cannot be done if the right people tackle the problems and offer solutions. You already have 3 28 target units installed, which is way more than some of the other potential host sites have on hand.
> 
> The "open land" on the way into the main ranges offers up some really nice potential for only two more ranges to be temporarily put in and taken out when the event is over. On BOTH sides of that slope, too


Parking actually wouldn't be a problem. It would have to be off-site with shuttles, but could be done fairly close. Porta johns not a problem either. No different than Redding. Water...back to 4-wheelers, but doable. Heck, people haul water for their home use.

The other needed ranges, wouldn't be that close, which blows a central location...and there's only 2 current 28s, with the thought of a 3rd.

Natrona County Archery Range...Casper Mountain Archery Range...Robert Adams Memorial Archery Range, take your pick.

The distance from town, with no lodging close is a logistical nightmare. The road has actually been improved now that it is an official County road via easement. Before, just permissive use across private and BLM, so the County didn't want to invest a lot.

The problem with the land to the North is that it is private, interspersed with BLM. Which is one of the issues with the potential new 14/28 to the south/southwest...


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## rsw

I am looking forward to shooting Casper Mtn again for the first time in many, many years - back into the early 70s or late 60s. SW Sectional is too far away so I am going to the NW version as a guest this year. It is kind of fun to read posts by archers who believe a range can just be set up anywhere like a 3D range. I too wish that were true and that other clubs were interested in hosting the nationals. Unfortunately, that is not now, nor in the future, ever going to happen. again. Too many factors have stilled the interest in field archery. Even for myself, as much as I love field archery, I find it difficult to attend the local shoots with kids in football, soccer, swim team, etc. What used to be a family activity with the field nationals serving as the annual family vacation is now a memory only.

I have, for many years, promoted a change in the field round to drastically shorten the time requirement and to cut way back on the resource/work requirements, but only find rebuff from the traditionalists (old timers like myself). If we could only evolve into an International Round format, the field round would be so much better in all ways with very little difference in the actual competition. It might help generate more interest, but it is doubtful.

That said, our current National tournament sites are excellent in my opinion - 1000s travelled long distances to the tournament sites in field's hay days and can do so now if they have the desire.


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## Rolo

rsw said:


> I am looking forward to shooting Casper Mtn again for the first time in many, many years - back into the early 70s or late 60s. SW Sectional is too far away so I am going to the NW version as a guest this year. It is kind of fun to read posts by archers who believe a range can just be set up anywhere like a 3D range. I too wish that were true and that other clubs were interested in hosting the nationals. Unfortunately, that is not now, nor in the future, ever going to happen. again. Too many factors have stilled the interest in field archery. Even for myself, as much as I love field archery, I find it difficult to attend the local shoots with kids in football, soccer, swim team, etc. What used to be a family activity with the field nationals serving as the annual family vacation is now a memory only.
> 
> I have, for many years, promoted a change in the field round to drastically shorten the time requirement and to cut way back on the resource/work requirements, but only find rebuff from the traditionalists (old timers like myself). If we could only evolve into an International Round format, the field round would be so much better in all ways with very little difference in the actual competition. It might help generate more interest, but it is doubtful.
> 
> That said, our current National tournament sites are excellent in my opinion - 1000s travelled long distances to the tournament sites in field's hay days and can do so now if they have the desire.


Looking forward to having you. :thumbs_up


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## field14

Rolo said:


> Parking actually wouldn't be a problem. It would have to be off-site with shuttles, but could be done fairly close. Porta johns not a problem either. No different than Redding. Water...back to 4-wheelers, but doable. Heck, people haul water for their home use.
> 
> The other needed ranges, wouldn't be that close, which blows a central location...and there's only 2 current 28s, with the thought of a 3rd.
> 
> Natrona County Archery Range...Casper Mountain Archery Range...Robert Adams Memorial Archery Range, take your pick.
> 
> The distance from town, with no lodging close is a logistical nightmare. The road has actually been improved now that it is an official County road via easement. Before, just permissive use across private and BLM, so the County didn't want to invest a lot.
> 
> The problem with the land to the North is that it is private, interspersed with BLM. Which is one of the issues with the potential new 14/28 to the south/southwest...


Rolo,
What happened to the 3rd 28? Did the problem with the landowner where the range infringed upon the land in the pines force you to take out the 28 hunter that went into the pines and then came back up on the NW corner, the other side of the "hill/cliff" from the field 28? The last time I was there, they had the field in the aspens, the hunter in the pines, and then across the entry road to the range, by the parking lot, they had put in a 28 animal range?? Got me confused, but I haven't been up there for a long, long time either.

When we were talking about having the potential of hosting a Nationals, the land on the same side of the road as the field range and to the East had been offered up as a spot for setting up the necessary courses, but would have had to be taken out when the shoot was over. That was around 1970 or 1971, however. They also made mention of the possibility of having one range on one side of the road and the 2nd one on the other side of the entry road going into the archery range?
Sad to hear it went back down to only 2 28's...and I'm simply assuming they "lost" the hunter 28 in the pines I'm familiar with due to the landowner debacle on those targets that were "over the property line."
Is there still such a thing as the "Red Arrow Archers"? I still have a shirt that has the old Red Arrow Archers club emblem on it. I'll have to dig it out and post a photo of that large club emblem/patch from the 1969 era.
field14


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## Rolo

field14 said:


> Rolo,
> What happened to the 3rd 28? Did the problem with the landowner where the range infringed upon the land in the pines force you to take out the 28 hunter that went into the pines and then came back up on the NW corner, the other side of the "hill/cliff" from the field 28? The last time I was there, they had the field in the aspens, the hunter in the pines, and then across the entry road to the range, by the parking lot, they had put in a 28 animal range?? Got me confused, but I haven't been up there for a long, long time either.
> 
> When we were talking about having the potential of hosting a Nationals, the land on the same side of the road as the field range and to the East had been offered up as a spot for setting up the necessary courses, but would have had to be taken out when the shoot was over. That was around 1970 or 1971, however. They also made mention of the possibility of having one range on one side of the road and the 2nd one on the other side of the entry road going into the archery range?
> Sad to hear it went back down to only 2 28's...and I'm simply assuming they "lost" the hunter 28 in the pines I'm familiar with due to the landowner debacle on those targets that were "over the property line."
> Is there still such a thing as the "Red Arrow Archers"? I still have a shirt that has the old Red Arrow Archers club emblem on it. I'll have to dig it out and post a photo of that large club emblem/patch from the 1969 era.
> field14


No idea. That all passed before my time. There are still some remnants there (excelsior and wood from stands). That is where there is consideration to reconstituting 14 or 28. But, the property lines, which are vague create an issue. There's also a bird sanctuary to the south. 

The whole entire range was basically unusable in the late 90s. Red Arrow had disbanded, and no one was maintaining the range. A couple of members and family of Lost Arrow Archers (the new club) basically re-built the 2 28s. The Animal side to the east, and the field/hunter to west / northwest. Everything south of the ridge separating the field / hunter was not touched. All before my time.

Over the last 2 years (12 & 13) all the butts, which were Pacific Bow Butts were replaced with 'Arrow Last' (I think that's the name) butts. 4' x 4' compressed carpet with spray on bed liner on them. Concrete bases were poured. All the old stuff hauled out. The snowmobilers have different results when they hit the new ones compared to the PBBs. :mg:


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## fanio

Some folks are even going over to Yankton from South Africa, Australia and Europe to shoot (though mainly because it will also be hosting the 2014 WFAC (WORLD Field Archery Championships) the week after nationals. So you could travel up and have 10 days of field archery, and your son might even do well at WFAC. I attended my first WFAC at 16 and I can tell you I loved it! That's probably the reason IFAA/NFAA style field archery is still my favorite "type" of archery.


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## ThunderEagle

You know, as a relative newbie to archery (started into it about 4 years ago) and I probably shot my first real field round about 3 years ago, and became absolutely hooked. I wish I understood why it isn't more popular.

Maybe it is the effort required to keep a course in shape. Maybe it is the time commitment, and maybe most people just like 3d better, I don't know.

To me though, I love to shoot my bow, both indoor and out. 56 or 112 shots vs only 30, yes please, every single time.

I am at least lucky that a nearby state park has a 14 target field course setup, free of charge. There is also a club that has been running 3 or 4 field shoots (1/2 field/ 1/2 hunter) only about an hour from my house. I wish I could make every one of them, but family commitments have me getting to only 1 or 2 of them a year. The Ohio State Field shoot will be at that location this year and not clear on the other side of the state, so I will be attending that this year!

I don't know if shortening the amount of shots and distances would help or not. Personally, I like the game as is, but would like it better if Field Shoots were as easy to find as 3D shoots better, so I'm not opposed to making changes.

Cheers to anyone helping to maintain a course and trying to introduce more into the game.


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## mag41vance

ThunderEagle said:


> You know, as a relative newbie to archery (started into it about 4 years ago) and I probably shot my first real field round about 3 years ago, and became absolutely hooked. I wish I understood why it isn't more popular.
> 
> Maybe it is the effort required to keep a course in shape. Maybe it is the time commitment, and maybe most people just like 3d better, I don't know.
> 
> To me though, I love to shoot my bow, both indoor and out. 56 or 112 shots vs only 30, yes please, every single time.
> 
> I am at least lucky that a nearby state park has a 14 target field course setup, free of charge. There is also a club that has been running 3 or 4 field shoots (1/2 field/ 1/2 hunter) only about an hour from my house. I wish I could make every one of them, but family commitments have me getting to only 1 or 2 of them a year. The Ohio State Field shoot will be at that location this year and not clear on the other side of the state, so I will be attending that this year!
> 
> I don't know if shortening the amount of shots and distances would help or not. Personally, I like the game as is, but would like it better if Field Shoots were as easy to find as 3D shoots better, so I'm not opposed to making changes.
> 
> Cheers to anyone helping to maintain a course and trying to introduce more into the game.


The mental aspect is more demanding with field. Putting together 1 good shot on 25-30 targets while it is a challenge, not quite like 4 quality shots on 28 targets. World of difference IMO.


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## field14

ThunderEagle said:


> You know, as a relative newbie to archery (started into it about 4 years ago) and I probably shot my first real field round about 3 years ago, and became absolutely hooked. I wish I understood why it isn't more popular.
> 
> Maybe it is the effort required to keep a course in shape. Maybe it is the time commitment, and maybe most people just like 3d better, I don't know.
> 
> To me though, I love to shoot my bow, both indoor and out. 56 or 112 shots vs only 30, yes please, every single time.
> 
> I am at least lucky that a nearby state park has a 14 target field course setup, free of charge. There is also a club that has been running 3 or 4 field shoots (1/2 field/ 1/2 hunter) only about an hour from my house. I wish I could make every one of them, but family commitments have me getting to only 1 or 2 of them a year. The Ohio State Field shoot will be at that location this year and not clear on the other side of the state, so I will be attending that this year!
> 
> I don't know if shortening the amount of shots and distances would help or not. Personally, I like the game as is, but would like it better if Field Shoots were as easy to find as 3D shoots better, so I'm not opposed to making changes.
> 
> Cheers to anyone helping to maintain a course and trying to introduce more into the game.


When I lived in Ohio, we had a field shoot nearly every weekend from April until late August! Yes, we had to drive a ways to get to them, but there were several ranges: I belonged to Lonesome Polecats Archery Club in Columbus. There was a nice field range in Xenia, one in Cincy, Coshocton, Parma Archery near Cleveland; Charlie Minoch's place at Ptowatamee; Akron, Toledo, and several other spots. In addition we could drive over into West Virginia and shoot, too. There were the regular field shoots, the District Championships, and the State Field Championship too. Same for the TARGET rounds, too. Always somewhere to shoot target (spot) archery...and then things changed rapidly as the love affair with 3-D came about and people decided that shooting 30 or 40 shots for an entire tournament was "better." In addition, of course, that huge change the NFAA made in 1976/77 really hurt field archery nation-wide, but for whatever reason Ohio really took a huge hit.
Ohio was one of only a few states that was shooting the 15-target field and hunter rounds. It eliminated the 80 W/U, replacing that with a 65 walkup and adding a 30-yard walkup as the 15th target. 

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Pete53

i kinda have wondered if maybe a field shoot went to more one day shoots,with like 20 targets and yet stay with 4 arrows and put a limit on how far its layed out in a loop. maybe more people would not get so bored or tired with it? people seem to want to get it done or over and alot of people are not in that good of shape too. and when its hot maybe more shaded rest areas for them ,with concessions ? few changes just may help the field shoots and bring in more shooter`s ? and members ? 3-d seems to keep them interested with 30 targets and only 30 shots,personally i would not drive very far to shoot 3d but some just love it.maybe people are just to busy and time is important to them? so easy parking,less targets,smaller loops and a one day shoot ?? just say`n ? the way it was done in the old days is just old-and gone !


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## field14

Pete53 said:


> i kinda have wondered if maybe a field shoot went to more one day shoots,with like 20 targets and yet stay with 4 arrows and put a limit on how far its layed out in a loop. maybe more people would not get so bored or tired with it? people seem to want to get it done or over and alot of people are not in that good of shape too. and when its hot maybe more shaded rest areas for them ,with concessions ? few changes just may help the field shoots and bring in more shooter`s ? and members ? 3-d seems to keep them interested with 30 targets and only 30 shots,personally i would not drive very far to shoot 3d but some just love it.maybe people are just to busy and time is important to them? so easy parking,less targets,smaller loops and a one day shoot ?? just say`n ? the way it was done in the old days is just old-and gone !


MOST field courses are laid out in 14-target units, so they loop around for 14 targets and then people are back to the clubhouse/concession stand and then go out to do the other 14-target unit. So, the number of targets is actually shorter than a "full" 3-D set; the difference being in only the number of arrows shot isn't 30 shots, each 15 minutes or more apart, but rather 4 shots, move on to the next target/distance. So, for 1/2 of a field or hunter round, you have 56 shots (actually get to shoot your bow).
MOST all of the field shoots anymore, other than State or Sectionals are always ONE day tournaments, normally on a Sunday. That has been that way (the local ONE day tournaments) for years and years. I haven't seen a two day LOCAL tournament in like forever.

The other part is that the 14 target set can be shot in under two hours on a local shoot, and max at about 4 hours for the entire 28 targets, most of the time locally, well under the 4 hours. Go to a 3-D shoot and it takes you as long or longer to shoot only 30 shots! 
I experienced an IBO shoot at Gem City, PA several years ago and made a huge mistake of tryng to get in all 40 targets in one day. The first 10 went pretty good, then next 10 even long, the 3rd ten longer than the 2nd 10, and the last ten targets...we took over THREE HOURS to shoot those 10 shots because folks were backed up beyond belief! 3 hours for 10 shots! I heard that it was even worse than that the next day.

So, it isn't the TIME, and I honestly don't think it is the number of targets either. IMHO, it is the total lack of PROmotion and in a lot of places the total lack of support by the local shops/clubs for anything "field" related. People go by what they hear and not by what they exeperience. Sorta like this "you gotta have a FAST BOW to shoot 3-D, or you "NEED at least 70 pounds of draw weight to get the KE up to kill a deer." OR...you gotta have that long Drawlength so you can get SPEED to do well in 3-D. 
So much based upon hearsay of the "buddies" and not by seeing it for yourself.
I cannot believe, over the years how many I've introduced to field shooting and once they were into the round and having it explained to them and experiencing it, they say, "Well THIS isn't what my 3-D friends and fellow club members were telling me about field shooting. THIS IS FUN, and I'll be back."

IMHO, it is more the near total lack of promotion by the NFAA members themselves, lack of promotion by the local shops (they make more of their money from the bowhunters and 3-D shooters), and then also the lack of sound promotion by the State Associations and yes, the NFAA itself. BUT you cannot expect the Vice-President of the NFAA to make a trip to every single NFAA or even potential NFAA club in the United States to PROmote the NFAA either. The STATE NFAA Directors could also be doing a better job of getting out and about and doing the REAL INSPECTIONS on those Certified Courses instead of constantly using a "designated representative" from the club to "inspect" the courses and submit the "official NFAA course inspection paperwork."

Several of the clubs I have belonged to over the years had it right in their by-laws and Constitution that the State NFAA Director MUST be the person to insepect that field course for its NFAA Certification. Yep, the club was willing to foot the bill to make sure that the place was visited, seen, and inspected ONLY by the NFAA Director and escorted by at least two members of the club that were NFAA members. 

Sorry folks, but the burden of the "dying" field archery rests almost exclusively at the State, Local club, and individual members' shoulders because they just aren't holding up their end to PROmote field archery.


field14 (Tom D.)


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## Pete53

well here in minnesota because the MSAA is the huge club with over 2,000 members and growing we do have one state field shoot and really nothing more.except the Maa with its less than a 100 members does also have a small field shoot . so promotion in minnesota is poor since the NFAA decided not to be affilated with the much larger MSAA ,to this day i think it was a very poor choice the NFAA made and at the time lost somewhere`s around 400 members,so ya promotion is important, but bottom line the NFAA needs to try to improve their relationships with all states otherwise it does hurt field archery too.


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## ahunter55

Pretty much agree with all filed14 said. I will be at our state target Sun. & our state field 6 July & Yankton NFAA Field Nationals for the 5 days. I'm shooting FS Bowhunter "older than dirt class". Many years ago when Field "was the event" I said, Field & Hunter shoots separates the men from the boys compared to indoor & 3-D. My thoughts have not changed..


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## Rattleman

As I stated long ago. The people of Yankton are among the nicest bunch I have EVER met. I live in Maryland and went to Yankton the 2nd time it was there. (Before the ranges were built at the Headquarters) As stated before in this thread. Find another club able to hold the event and I am sure it would go to that club. If you cannot be part of the solution then you are a part of the problem.


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## EPLC

I for one enjoyed the two I have attended in PA... and will be attending again next year (I think it's next year). Having the Nationals on a rotating schedule makes it possible for more to attend... I applaud the current method. Hey, and I shot a 270 half today on our 14T course. Not bad for 68!


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