# Problem with Muzzy zero effect rest



## illbowhunter (Mar 18, 2005)

My bowshop crossed my cable above the cable guard. He said that would make the arm raise more. :wink:


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

you might get more help if you give some more info. 

Brand and model of bow might help :smile:


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## Fauch125 (Feb 25, 2004)

My bow is a Champion hurricane 70/30 (31" ata, 8 in brace height) . I'm shooting A/C/C 3-49 @27.5" with bohning blazer vanes. I tried crossing the cables above the cable guard ( clearly more cable guard travel), but the cables rub in this position.
My nock point is 1/4" high with a string loop. I just got a reply from Muzzy. They suggested nock high position (I should be ok?) cross over the cable guard ( which I can't do), and adjust turnbuckle so that rest contacts stop only in last 1" of draw.
I've adjusted the turnbuckle screw several turns, and the rest contacts the stop about 1/2" before full draw. I'm going to give this a try. Any other suggestions appreciated. 
Thanks


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## Fauch125 (Feb 25, 2004)

Muzzy also recommended cock vane down for max. clearance.


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## BowKil (Mar 19, 2005)

You say you "can't paper tune...." but you don't state what kind of tears you're getting. So, my question is, what do the tears look like??


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## Fauch125 (Feb 25, 2004)

I don't trust the tears because of the contact. The tears were low and left. I fixed the low tear by lowering the nock point, but couldn't touch the left tear without wildly changing the centershot. I'm RH


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## bushbuck (Feb 6, 2005)

how far is the cable slide actually moving when You draw back. I find them easy to tune when You have a good amount of travel. alot of the new bows the slide only moves 3/4 of an inch or so on the glide and the rest doesnt seem to travel up as high. I have found that when releasing the arrow that slide only travels about 1/4 to 1/2 inch before the vanes are at the rest. that means that the rest has not dropped much. I am not familliar with that bow, so check it out against Your old one and see if the slide has moreor less travel..


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## Still Trying (Mar 5, 2005)

I have always had doubts about rests with moving parts and this thread confirms my thoughts. Any parts that rotate, slide, pivot, etc are potential problem makers. I will stay with rests that have "give" or springyness in them and stay away from moving parts.


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

had the same problem with my MQ32 short ATA don't know I had to make the hook drop down below the shelf .


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## sittingbull (Jan 19, 2003)

PA.JAY said:


> had the same problem with my MQ32 short ATA don't know I had to make the hook drop down below the shelf .




*PA...I agree, sounds like his hook is not dropping down far enough. 

Fauch125...To be sure where you are contacting you might try powdering the rest, shoot an arrow then see if you can see if any of the vanes have powder on them or if they are any marks left on the rest by the vanes. 

I believe I would try to make sure just where I was making contact before I start making adjustments.

As someone mentioned, you should be able to put the cock feather straight down and shoot without contacting the rest, if it's properly adjusted.

If you find that your hook is making contact with your fletching then you will have to lower your hook. I'm not sure which model MZE you have but I will tell you how I would make the necessary adjustment with my model which is a upper cable rod style with a roller/cable slide.

Take the arm that attaches to the roller/cable guard lose. Should be one screw then apply a little sideways pressure to the arm and it should come off.

Next, unscrew the upper arm connection that threads into the lower part of the arm. You should rotate the upper screw section counter clockwise about 3 full turn then reconnect. 

Making this adjustment will also change your arrow height, lowering the front of your arrow thus you will shoot lower if you do not adjust your rest stop screw located on the underside of the arm that goes from the attaching to the side of the bow at the burger button hole and to the turn buckle on the other end. This the arm that has several adjustment holes for mounting the rest.

From looking at the screw viewing the underside of that part of the adjustment arm, turn that screw (the one that extends through the adjustment arm and comes in contact with the stop shelf (my model has a groove that the stop screw contacts when at full draw). Buy turning the stop screw out (counter clockwise) you will recover your original arrow angle. 

With these two adjustments you are first allowing the arm to drop down further to give you more clearance as the arrow passes over the hook and you are readjusting the stop to recover the arrow angle you lost when you made the first adjustment.

A little trick I learned while setting up my muzzy rest that I will pass on...when you take the arm lose at the cable slide/roller and "BEFORE" you make any adjustments, take a rubber band and hook it to the rest on one end and the cable rod on the other end....this will simulate your rest at full draw. You can either make a mark as to the angle of your arrow or just make sure the arrow passes through the center of the burger button hole. 

That way, you will have an idea how much to back your draw stop screw out. It can save some time making adjustments.

If you want to get "real" technical and you have an arrow level and a string level. You can first level your bow (if you do not have a bow vice that can hold your bow level in the vertical plane, then you can try my method.... I just hammer a long eves spout nail wrapped in tape so you don't scratch your upper wheel or cam, into one of my pole barn timbers to hang the bow from the top wheel/cam) (then level the bow vertically with your string level and mark a spot through one of the holes in the bottom wheel/cam...drill a hole so your nail will slide in and out of the hole but is still snug...again, put some tape on the lower nail also) 

Now you should be able to put your bow in a vertically level position. Next, take the rest lose at the roller/cable slide and use your rubber band to hold the rest in the up position, simulating the rest at full draw.

Now, nock and arrow with the rest held in the up position. Put your arrow level on the end of the arrow. Then adjust the stop screw counter clockwise to raise your arrow tip or screw the stop screw clockwise to lower your arrow. I set my arrow at 90 degrees from a level string. 

Now with all this said, it is possible that other MZE styles adjust differently than mine. Mine is on a Q2XL with the upper cable rod. Also, it might be possible that you will have to use a different mounting hole on the arm that attaches to the burger button hole (stud). But don't change the mounting hole unless you cannot solve your problem with the rest in the present position.

It might sound complicated but once you become familiar with this rest you will agree that it has an infinite number of possible adjustments to fit "nearly" all of an archers needs.

IMO, the MZE is the best all around drop away rest for the hunter that likes to do a little 3D. Some archers do use them for tournament...I believe the Mooreheads still use MZEs on their 3D bows.

Now that I have probably thoroughly confused you, feel free to PM me or post if you need further assistance.....sittingbull * 
[/B]


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

Left tear usually means an underspined arrow. When I run your setup through TAP assuming 100 grain points, it comes up severly underspined.

Try some stiffer arrows. The Muzzy is one of the easiest drop away rests to tune if you have it set up per instructions and the correctly spined arrows.

Let us know how it works out.
Allen


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

I would also be suspicious of arrow spine. Even if your old bow was a carbon copy of the new one. Sometimes the bow just does not act like any chart or manual says it should. I have had identical bows as far as weight and DL go like different arrows, many things, like brace height, cam style and bow geometry can affect arrow spine. I agree that if you can fix the high/low tears but not the left/right stuff. Try a stiffer arrow.


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## gr8hunter (Mar 21, 2005)

Your bow may have an unlevel nock travel, therefore causing your arrow to hit the shelf. try a fixed rest. some bows will tune with a drop away and others won't it all depends on the nock travel and speed.


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## Fauch125 (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks to everyone for the reply. I'm confused about the arrow spine. I understand that an underspined arrow will cause r/l tears, but would it create a contact problem with muzzy rest? I had been shooting Easton Carbon Excel 400's through my old bow (same manufacturer, nearly the same IBO speed, same draw weight). Switching to A/C/C 3-49 I actually increased arrow spine when I set up the new bow. I'm unfamiliar with the TAP program. I've been using the Easton download, and according to their estimate, my 27.5" arrows with 100 gr. tip fall between A/C/C 3-49 and 3-60. Evem if I'm on the border according to Easton, I thought the muzzy rest is supposed to make the arrow spine less of an issue than a prong rest.
I really appreciate all the comments. What I've realized is that there may be more than the rest that needs adjustment. If I can solve the contact issue, and still get sideways tears, I 'll probably try a lighter point, or back the poundage of my bow off (the A/C/C arrows were a considerable investment and I don't want to give up on them just yet <g>).

On a last note, what type of powder should I use on the rest to check for contact. I tried something a few years ago (can't remember what it was, just that I made a mess and couldn't really see where the contact was occuring). Any instructions/hints about using the powder also appreciated. I've also seen a post recommending colored lipstick on the leading edge of the vanes. Any thoughts?

Thanks again for all the great information,
Jon


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## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

you have two separate issues: spine & contact/timing on the drop away

step one is to solve the contact issue. use powder or lipstick to check where the contact is occurring. you can probably figure out how to correct the problem from that. Good instructions above on that.

TAP is The Archery Program - http://www.thearcheryprogram.com

Also Pinwheel Software - http://www.pinwheelsoftware.com/ is a more economical program that does the same thing. 

Both have shaft selector features that help to narrow your shaft choices.

You may be able to sort out the spine issue by backing off the draw weight and reducing your point weight. You are right that the ACC's are pretty expensive. I don't blame you for being reluctant to get new arrows. Fortunately drop away rests tend to be more forgiving of spine than other rests. One other thing that you can try to increase dynamic spine is to add weight on the back end of your arrow. Heavier vanes and/or arrow wraps will add weight and increase your arrows dynamic spine.

If all else fails, you can recover much of your arrow money by selling them here on AT.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## sittingbull (Jan 19, 2003)

Jon...you can use athletes foot spray on powder on your rest to see if you are contacting the rest. 

I ran your numbers through the Easton arrow chart and if you are shooting at 70lbs, you might be borderline on spine. If there is a doubt just turn the bow down to near 60 and the questionable spin issue will not be a factor.

You might want to do that before you look at your rest. Once you have that issue solved then you can focus on the rest clearance issue.

If you need anything feel free to PM me...sittingbull


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## BIGBUCKDOWN!! (Mar 28, 2005)

There are a lot of good fall aways on the market.....but try this one...I have used it for many years and it is flawless!! No cables, no strings, dead balls awesome as long as your bow is tuned. Lots of fall away guys are now moving to this one. No confusin here.


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## BIGBUCKDOWN!! (Mar 28, 2005)

Forgot the link...

http://www.trapdoorrest.com/


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## Fauch125 (Feb 25, 2004)

Made my adjustments and went to the range today. I lengthened the turnbuckle screw on the muzzy, and dropped the bow down to 66 lbs. I also set the nock at 1/4 high, and checked centershot. Finally, I turned the cock vane down as suggested by Muzzy. I began by putting lipstick on the leading edge of the vanes. I was getting some slight contact on my first shot, but on the riser shelf, not the rest arm. I shot through paper, and had a low tear with no left or rt. deviation ( big improvement over before already). I moved the nock lower (probably between 0 and 1/8) and shot again. No contact with the rest for the rest of the day, and perfect bulletholes at 10 feet and 20 yards. Only thing I noted was that I had to be carefull to hold at the wall, and not creep forward before the shot. Not much margin for error here since the set screw makes contact with the plate about 1/4 to 1/2 inch before full draw. Tight groups out to 40 yards.
Thanks again for all the good advice
Jon


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