# String walking and perfect arrow flight



## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

I'm curious. When you set up your bow for SW there must be a range where your tune gives you perfect arrow flight...then it degrades out of that range. My only experience is with a fixed crawl, tuned for 20 yds...but then I pick an aiming point instead of changing crawl to maintain perfect arrow flight [for hunting]



So you target guys that SW, out of what range does your arrow flight suffer...or maybe arrow flight doesn't matter on targets? I found Demmers thread on the other site interesting as all heck where he might not have perfect arrow flight in a target setup....and scores better- amazing.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

When I tune I try and end up with good Bareshaft at my mid point crawl 30y (run out of crawls at 60y), so I guess the 30y is going to be the sweet spot in arrow flight. To be honest I don't have any noticeable flight problems at any distance, they seem to fly/group well at all distances i.e no wobble or shots out of the group for no reason.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

My long crawls on the bunny targets are pretty horrific. I have a long draw so I suffer with the really short shots. I experimented with shooting point-to-shelf for the really short shots last year. The jury is still out. I think I can clean up the tune a lot and make the longer crawls better. I have not had a single stable SW bow setup for awhile since I have been changing weight doing form work That has limited the time to really dial in the tune.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

You guys are shooting pretty long bows too, right? like 66", 68"

As I understand it the longer bows are easier to tune for SW.

I'm, more concerned with hunting accuracy along with BH arrow flight...and whether you can get a tune while SW for a wide range of hunting shots. I've shot tournaments with some really good Sw'ers and one some longer targets their arrow flight wasn't great....though they still shot very well.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I am shooting 72 inch bows pulled 32 inches. I have also shot 70 inch bows, but I am standardizing now on 72. I have experimented with a 74. If I can get enough gas to make 50 meters, then I may use it for FITA field. My extra long limbs are only 30 pounds. I can make 50 meters with those limbs setup as a 72 inch bow.


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## JamesThom. (Oct 9, 2016)

Beendare said:


> I'm curious. When you set up your bow for SW there must be a range where your tune gives you perfect arrow flight...then it degrades out of that range. My only experience is with a fixed crawl, tuned for 20 yds...but then I pick an aiming point instead of changing crawl to maintain perfect arrow flight [for hunting]
> 
> 
> 
> So you target guys that SW, out of what range does your arrow flight suffer...or maybe arrow flight doesn't matter on targets? I found Demmers thread on the other site interesting as all heck where he might not have perfect arrow flight in a target setup....and scores better- amazing.


This is one of the major disadvantages of string walking. There is only point in which you are shooting in perfect tune. 

Ideally you would want your perfect tune to be at the close distances (perhaps 20 yards) and have your bow slowly go out of tune the further you shoot. 

The reason for this is the same reason why all of the big indoor shooters all use 4 to 5" fletchings shooting 18m. Shooting close range the arrow has less time to correct itself so you want the most amount of fletching possible to correct the arrow's flight.

The further away you are shooting the less important tune becomes because any amount of fletching you have on the arrow will have more time to correct the arrow in flight.

The difference in grouping between out of tune arrows at 50yards using say 2" feathers vs 4" will be much smaller then they would be at say, 20 yards.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

What happens is the bigger your crawl, the less your arrow is actually drawn back and therefore acts slightly stiffer. Typically that means an arrow that will shoot slightly left for a RH archer. The difference has been minimal in my experience and the horizontal tradeoff well worth vertical gain for the accuracy increase.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

With all due respect James you seem to have no idea what you're talking about on this particular subject. You're posting an opinion on a shooting style you don't even shoot, I get the impression you never have shot this style. That's like giving a bow review on a bow you never shot/owned.

A couple of weeks ago I shot a 42# 66" setup at a 100 X 3D tourney which was max 60y, I beat the 3 under Recurve Gappers by 200 points and I would have been 4th against the Compounds, I see no real disadvantage, if there is any disadvantage it only what's in your head.

I switched to 38# and 68" setup this year, have some issues with my finger pain and the lighter draw has taken some pressure off them. I don't have the same issues as Hank on the short shots because my draw is 27.75", I even have a workable crawl for 5m bunny.

Most SW tune their bow for their mid distances and as most of the good one's shoot IFAA/WA Field that's a mid point around the 30 yard, my Bow shoots so well with Field/3D setup that I use the same basic setup for Indoor 300 rounds (shooting between 280-290), most of the other shooters do the same Indoors, skinny/light arrows with 1.75" spin wings.

I changed my Vanes a few weeks ago to 3" Impulse they worked really well on this 3D tourney (less fragile and got fed up swapping spin wings every tourney) I plan to shoot some big 3D tourneys next Summer so a more robust vane seems a good plan.

As Centershot says the spine changes at distance, we deal with this issue with more forgiving Barebow rests and high quality adjustable on the fly pressure buttons.


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## JamesThom. (Oct 9, 2016)

Stephen Morley said:


> With all due respect James you seem to have no idea what you're talking about on this particular subject. You're posting an opinion on a shooting style you don't even shoot, I get the impression you never have shot this style.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago I shot a 42# 66" setup at a 100 X 3D tourney which was max 60y, I beat the 3 under Recurve Gappers by 200 points and I would have been 4th against the Compounds, I see no real disadvantage, if there is any disadvantage it only what's in your head.
> 
> ...


You are right in this instance I really do not have much of a clue as to what I'm talking about since I do not string walk.

The disadvantage is a louder bow and arrow tune though and those are facts. If someone was very very good shooting instinctive/GAP or anything that did not effect arrow tune they should out shoot a string walker just due to the fact that there arrow will always fly straight as long as their form is good. 

I should of stated from a theoretic point of view you would want your arrow tune to be close to perfect the closer your target is and allow it to come more in tune at the further distances because the fletching has more time to correct the arrow's flight. 

I would love to compete but there's not much shooting going on right now where I'm located. I'd like to see how well I stack up to most string walkers shooting instinctive/split vision out to 50 yards.

Out of curiosity how many arrows out of 10 do you think most string walkers competing can keep in a 7" pie plate from 50 yards? I'm not even sure how big the FITA field target is or how big the score rings are.


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

James, 
Realistically a good string walker will spank an instinctive shooter at 50 yards , no matter how big the target , and hand most Gap shooters a good beating on the core board too .

If not, WA Field and target winners podiums would be include non SW'ers.
It doesn't.

And no, I don't string walk


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## JamesThom. (Oct 9, 2016)

Well people also believed in was not possible to do many things in sporting en devours but were proved wrong at a certain point in time.

It's within the ream of possibility for an instinctive archer/gap shooter to beat the string walkers at a big event.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Don't think I'm saying you cannot post an opinion, just when you know you have zero experience you should make it clear in your post so people understand it's an opinion based on hearsay/reading and not from actual personal experience.

Some very good Recurve Bowhunters can run with Stringwalkers but they're a very rare breed, some of the time they're actually StringWalkers playing at 3 under for a change.

The very top guys in WA Field are averaging just under 5 points per arrow out to 55 yards, the Spot is 5 points and the inner ring is 6 points. The Italian Semandi shooting WA3D worlds a couple of years ago (33 yard max) shot the first two qualification rounds of 40 targets and never missed the inner 10 ring once and averaged 11.5. John Demmer at Vegas beat the BB Compounds (first time since the 70's) and his score was close enough to some Olympians to get serious respect. Just some examples of good shooting with an badly tuned bow.

I wish I could shoot that good but can't.



JamesThom. said:


> It's within the ream of possibility for an instinctive archer/gap shooter to beat the string walkers at a big event.


In IFAA it's possible and think happened a few times because you don't always get the tops guys all together, I keep to European tourneys these days because I have young kids, I couldn't make Australia worlds this year. It wont ever happen in WA though.


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## benofthehood (May 18, 2011)

Steve, 
Pink bows don't count ......


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

I use a fixed crawl for my shooting and hunting. It's kind of a big crawl because it's the shorter distances that I'm interested in.

Given the distances that I'll shoot while hunting I don't see much advantage in walking...ok, if I knew the exact distance and wanted to put myself point on a squirrels head, I guess it could be useful.

Here's the thing for most of us mortal shooters. In my experience (maybe I'm more mortal, LOL), taking a little crawl won't effect tune or noise *anywhere near* as much as variations in form and execution.

Maybe Steve notices it. I saw Jimmy Blackmons videos on tuning for string walking and he had to make adjustments at various distances. I'm afraid that I (and I'll bet I have plenty of company) don't shoot afar enough or good enough to notice such small deviations in tune.

I will say this...when I'm shooting well (things are going pretty good now) my bow is super quiet. I don't notice that the crawl makes it louder. My 1 3/8" crawl doesn't have any great effect on tune that I can see (and I shoot bareshaft field point and fletched broadheads...if I was a bunch better and I was shooting a bunch further I suppose you'd see something. Now, a sloppy shot will definitely make the bow loud and the arrows fly wonky. LOL

What I do notice is that the gain in accuracy I get by making my gaps small or nonexistent is FAR greater than any minor theoretical effects on noise or tune.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

James I just looked at some results, Alan Eagleton won mens Bowhunter div a few weeks ago in Australia beating the Barebows, Alan is a top shooter taking silver and team Gold at WA worlds a couple of years ago in Barebow div. 

He is that rare breed I was telling you about, he's an exceptional Archer in any shooting Div. I didn't recognize any of the names in Barebow but when Alan won this title at the previous IFAA worlds as Barebow div he was shooting 30 to 40 points a day higher than his current Bowhunter score. This sounds about right as the World records between Barebow/Bowhunter I think is about 30 points.

This is Gap v SW, Instinctive Archers wouldn't have a hope on these marked rounds against Alan

Some SW bows can be pretty loud, mine is as quiet as when I shoot normal 3 under and Gapping at 65, 70 and 80y, I guess I got a good tune and managed to keep the noise down.


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

James, please, you do nobody any service with your posts. Especially on a subject you admit no experience with..

My experience is like that of S. Morely. I've shot this method for 20 years. I tune for perfect bare shafts at 25 yards. All the way down to 10 yards I get amazingly good arrow flight. Past 25 yards the same thing. 

I do have a short draw length of 26" AMO and I use a short ILF bow of 66". This might have some impact on my bow being in very good tune over all it's crawls whereas some longer-armed shooters might have difficulty. This only a guess.

Large fletching are not needed at all. I use Spin-Wing vanes and they fly like darts with no arrows bouncing down range or wagging their tails. Everyone in this game uses a small vane of some kind.

String walking is highly misunderstood and thought to be difficult. It is not. It's the best way I've found to shoot a recurve without a sight and the reason I use it.


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

JamesThom. said:


> Well people also believed in was not possible to do many things in sporting en devours but were proved wrong at a certain point in time.
> 
> It's within the ream of possibility for an instinctive archer/gap shooter to beat the string walkers at a big event.


I shoot in a lot of 3D in the eastern Massachusetts area. I only know 2 other men who shoot this method. I'm not even very good yet I've never lost to a gap or instinctive shooter. Not once. My friends who shoot this method are better than me. They, too, destroy even good gap shooters over 30 targets every time out. None of us count our scores anymore. We don't have a division and see no point in taking pride away from archers who are using an inferior method of shooting. It's that simple. 

I'm sure there are good instinctive men who can beat us inside of 30 yards on a consistent basis, I just don't run into them in my area. Past 30 yards I seriously doubt a gap shooter could compete. I get more comfortable as the distance increases. I get more relaxed.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Beendare said:


> You guys are shooting pretty long bows too, right? like 66", 68"
> 
> As I understand it the longer bows are easier to tune for SW.
> 
> I'm, more concerned with hunting accuracy along with BH arrow flight...and whether you can get a tune while SW for a wide range of hunting shots. I've shot tournaments with some really good Sw'ers and one some longer targets their arrow flight wasn't great....though they still shot very well.


Maybe a fixed crawl would serve you well for hunting? I'd bet you could achieve a pretty tight window out to maybe 25 yards or so.

I know that some people actually make plunger adjustments with different crawls to compensate, but that might be more of a hassle than you want.

Ben Rogers sets his plunger up center shot, or so he told me, and claims that he doesn't have to adjust left/right for different crawls.

Alan Eagleton told me that sometimes the tuner suffers, but at least with field points, it doesn't change the impact much. With the fletching, the back just kind of wags its way there.

It's not something I have a whole lot of experience with, except enough to decide that it is something I will explore further at a later date . Looking forward to finding out what works well for you.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

JamesThom. said:


> The difference in grouping between out of tune arrows at 50yards using say 2" feathers vs 4" will be much smaller then they would be at say, 20 yards.


I have to ask. Did you come up with this all by yourself, or did you hear it somewhere?


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

MGF said:


> Maybe Steve notices it. I saw Jimmy Blackmons videos on tuning for string walking and he had to make adjustments at various distances. I'm afraid that I (and I'll bet I have plenty of company) don't shoot afar enough or good enough to notice such small deviations in tune.


I have noticed a just few people needing to do this but I personally don't and most of the BB guys I've shot with haven't needed to, when I started I just used a DX button, I got the adjustable Beiter plunger just for speed of tune and more delicate range of movement. Again my short draw length may make all this tuning less complicated for me.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

JamesThom. said:


> If someone was very very good shooting instinctive/GAP or anything that did not effect arrow tune they should out shoot a string walker just due to the fact that there arrow will always fly straight as long as their form is good.


Have you ever competed against experienced string walkers?

I have. I'd like to think I didn't embarrass myself, but I was, at no time, ever a threat to them. That's not to say you can't find a string walker that might get beat by a good gap shooter, but apples to apples... not really pie.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

JamesThom. said:


> Well people also believed in was not possible to do many things in sporting en devours but were proved wrong at a certain point in time.
> 
> It's within the ream of possibility for an instinctive archer/gap shooter to beat the string walkers at a big event.


As a gap shooter, I've beat people using olympic recurve setups at a big event, but they sure weren't the winners (and neither was I).


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

The lesson here is that we are doing a disservice to the original poster when we allow a thread to derail like this. James should politely back out. We should point out any miss-conceptions so the POC is not confused, and then we move on. 

This gets a little old. If I ask a question about stringwalking, I want responses from folks that stringwalk. I am not going to jump on the general forum and start spouting ideas about how to shoot a compound.

This post is not about what the most accurate way to shoot a bow is, or whether an instinctive shooter can hang with a stringwalker.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

benofthehood said:


> James,
> Realistically a good string walker will spank an instinctive shooter at 50 yards , no matter how big the target , and hand most Gap shooters a good beating on the core board too .
> 
> If not, WA Field and target winners podiums would be include non SW'ers.
> ...


*I'm gonna test this theory. I do plan to be making SW's shoot their best. I feel very comfortable shooting all yardages.*


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

Keeshond said:


> I shoot in a lot of 3D in the eastern Massachusetts area. I only know 2 other men who shoot this method. I'm not even very good yet I've never lost to a gap or instinctive shooter. Not once. My friends who shoot this method are better than me. They, too, destroy even good gap shooters over 30 targets every time out. None of us count our scores anymore. We don't have a division and see no point in taking pride away from archers who are using an inferior method of shooting. It's that simple.
> 
> I'm sure there are good instinctive men who can beat us inside of 30 yards on a consistent basis, I just don't run into them in my area. Past 30 yards I seriously doubt a gap shooter could compete. I get more comfortable as the distance increases. I get more relaxed.


*Again, I would disagree with this statement. I shoot well beyond 30 yards. Either, we are talking about different ideas of gapping but, I shoot out to 105 yards and score.*


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

BarneySlayer said:


> That's not to say you can't find a string walker that might get beat by a good gap shooter, but apples to apples... not really pie.


I meant that backwards...


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

equilibrium said:


> *Again, I would disagree with this statement. I shoot well beyond 30 yards. Either, we are talking about different ideas of gapping but, I shoot out to 105 yards and score.*


In something like a 900 round, when you can have an arrow on a known location on target, the disadvantage surely diminishes  At 100 yards, I don't think many can see the target either way. I know I can't


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## fieldnfeathers (Nov 7, 2013)

Beendare said:


> I'm curious. When you set up your bow for SW there must be a range where your tune gives you perfect arrow flight...then it degrades out of that range. My only experience is with a fixed crawl, tuned for 20 yds...but then I pick an aiming point instead of changing crawl to maintain perfect arrow flight [for hunting]
> 
> 
> 
> So you target guys that SW, out of what range does your arrow flight suffer...or maybe arrow flight doesn't matter on targets? I found Demmers thread on the other site interesting as all heck where he might not have perfect arrow flight in a target setup....and scores better- amazing.


I'm a diehard string walker. For hunting, I use a fixed 25 yard crawl. I bareshaft tune until I have perfect bareshaft flight and a point on at 25 yards with fixed crawl. I anchor with index finger in the corner of my mouth. I also like faster setups, so I use 8.5 gpp arrows with 18% FOC. It shoots very flat. 

From 0-25 yards I hold point on. For 30 yards I hold figure eight above where I want to hit. I won't shoot an animal past 30 yards with my recurve, so I can't speak to that. I do practice hold-overs at 40 yards frequently, but never adjust my fixed crawl. If I drop my anchor to under chin, it makes my fixed crawl point on at about 45 yards.

IMHO, there's nothing more deadly when hunting with recurve or longbow than a fixed crawl. At least for me.

Hope this helps.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

BarneySlayer said:


> In something like a 900 round, when you can have an arrow on a known location on target, the disadvantage surely diminishes  At 100 yards, I don't think many can see the target either way. I know I can't


*I have a point at all my distances.*


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

equilibrium said:


> *I have a point at all my distances.*


LUCKY! Some day I'd like to mooch your methods, to see what I can extract for myself


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

*I'm not delusional, Stringwalking is an advantage. BB archers are shooting a single pin sight. I just believe gap shooters/pick a point can hit some high scores if, that's what they are after. I just like when my bow goes off and rings the bells of the Gods, and I can do that at all my distances. If, I get a sweet release....that arrow is GONE. And what a beautiful thing it is...IMO.*


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

BarneySlayer said:


> LUCKY! Some day I'd like to mooch your methods, to see what I can extract for myself


*
Well, there isn't much up there. *


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

equilibrium said:


> *
> Well, there isn't much up there. *


I can attest to that. 😂😂😂😂

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

Demmer said:


> I can attest to that. &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Not exactly the Bells of God, but the voice of reason. LOL


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## JamesThom. (Oct 9, 2016)

To be fair I don't think string walking has a significant advantage over instinctive or GAP shooting. 

Most of the time when I miss or anyone misses it's due to poor form. 

Sure while string walking you are using the arrow like an iron sight and are always on target but if you shoot even a moderate amount there's no reason why someone shooting instinctive/subconscious gap can't shoot as well as a string walker. 

Someone can come up with excuses why they can't shoot as well as the person they are competing against but in reality it's easy to come up with excuses and they are useless. 

I wish Hill and the other great archers that have passed away were still alive I really believe those guys would smoke the top FITA barebow shooters. 

If anything you'd have a leg up on the string walkers since your arrows will fly true at any distance.

As of right now though it's of no surprise to me why barebow archery is nearly dead in the USA and very unpopular. It's because it's so boring to watch. They should make it unmarked distances and have them shoot under obstacles, on different slopes, and stretch them out past 50 meters.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

James, you have no clue bro. You are arguing with some of the best shooters in the world here. and don't even realize it. It won't take much more of your banter for these guys to head for the hills. More than a few of the guys you are arguing with would smoke Howard Hill on the range...it wouldn't even be close...but save that discussion for one of your legend in your own mind threads.
______

I really appreciate the thoughtful answers that many of you have contributed...yes, its very informative, thanks. I'm back at the baby steps stage so its all helpful in deciding a path.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

JamesThom. said:


> To be fair I don't think string walking has a significant advantage over instinctive or GAP shooting.
> 
> Most of the time when I miss or anyone misses it's due to poor form.
> 
> ...


The entire first day of WA Fields is unmarked. Ain't no instinkters winning (or even coming close).

You can put me into the category of mediocre stringwalkers who've never lost to an instinctive shooter.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

JamesThom. said:


> To be fair I don't think string walking has a significant advantage over instinctive or GAP shooting.
> 
> Most of the time when I miss or anyone misses it's due to poor form.
> 
> Sure while string walking you are using the arrow like an iron sight and are always on target but if you shoot even a moderate amount there's no reason why someone shooting instinctive/subconscious gap can't shoot as well as a string walker.


James you missed a very important point, when you reach a certain skill level it then becomes a very mental game. This is from personal experience of shooting many styles of bow/aiming, I found Stringwalking compared to other aiming methods allows the Archer a much higher level of confidence in their ability not just to hit the target but consistently hit the spot at all distances. This takes their shooting to a totally new level of excellence that generally isn't achieved with other styles, of course you will always get rare exceptions but this is looking at the whole picture of competitive un-sighted divs.

Most of the people you see at WA Field/3D have gone though a National selection process as only three archers from each div allowed, so even though you only see around 300 Archers at a Worlds, those Archers in most cases have already beaten 1000's locally to gain their spot on National team(i.e. France alone has 100,000 competing WA Field/3D Archers). We shoot 6 tourneys though the year, top 3 win a place on team. Over the long haul to qualification the SW method will win out overall against Gappers and Instinct shots.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Early 2000's for 10 years I was considered top of my game in Longbow, over that time winning 18 World/Euro medals, three or which are first in all disciplines Field, 3D and Indoors, on my best day with Longbow shooting close to World Record scores I still couldn't get within a 100 points of my Barebow scores (or Bowhunter) on a IFAA Field course, so from personal experience I just don't see a good Longbow beating a good Barebow and at this moment I'm not even close to being a top Barebow Archer.

Form your opinions from personal shooting experience and not what you read in Ekin's book, Forum members will respect those kinds of opinions a lot more.:thumbs_up


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## UtahIdahoHunter (Mar 27, 2008)

JamesThom. said:


> They should make it unmarked distances and have them shoot under obstacles, on different slopes, and stretch them out past 50 meters.


Sounds like a Field Round to me.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

JamesThom. said:


> They should make it unmarked distances and have them shoot under obstacles, on different slopes, and stretch them out past 50 meters.



Oh you mean like this?


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

James, you ignored this before but it bears repeating. 

Howard Hill's best American and York Round scores are known. His best scores. Even in his day he did not post the best known scores. Not even close.

With my ILF barebow I can beat his best American Round scores this afternoon. I can group much tighter. Of course I'm shooting much better equipment than he knew of, but you said Hill would beat current FITA-style shooters with his longbow. 

I can't beat good FITA shooters. (as you call us) I'm a recreational shooter who does shoot a lot, but I'm average on my best day. Yet it's still better than Hill with his longbow ever shot.

It's like saying Cy Young was a better pitcher than Pedro Martinez. Young pitched in different era at a much lower speed when the game was different. Same thing with archery today.

Howard Hill deposited amidst world class target archers today would lose by so many points the contest would be over after 70% of the arrows were shot. He'd never catch up.


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## Longbowfanatic (Mar 5, 2016)

I tuned my SW bow this fall and I had some interesting findings. Like has been said here, you will notice your arrows showing stiff for a RH shooter if you make the mistake I did in tuning. I ended up tuning my bow with my tab directly under the bottom arrow nock at 20 y. The arrows shoot great that way, but when I shoot my point on distance (45 yards) or even at 40 y, my arrows impact slightly left of the bullseye (stiff). It's really not that big of a deal, but I will definitely tune my next batch of arrows for about a 25 y distance. Because I shoot an A&H ACS bow, I don't have the adjustability of plunger buttons that ILF bows have.


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

Longbowfanatic said:


> I tuned my SW bow this fall and I had some interesting findings. Like has been said here, you will notice your arrows showing stiff for a RH shooter if you make the mistake I did in tuning. I ended up tuning my bow with my tab directly under the bottom arrow nock at 20 y. The arrows shoot great that way, but when I shoot my point on distance (45 yards) or even at 40 y, my arrows impact slightly left of the bullseye (stiff). It's really not that big of a deal, but I will definitely tune my next batch of arrows for about a 25 y distance. Because I shoot an A&H ACS bow, I don't have the adjustability of plunger buttons that ILF bows have.


Not sure I follow you. Do you mean you shot 3-under with your tab directly under the arrow? You did this at 20 yards to tune. It sounds like you did not crawl down the string as would be needed to shoot point-on at 20 yards. If I'm reading you correctly. 

It's sounds like you tuned the bow for ordinary shooting and chose a too-stiff arrow shaft that shot okay at 20 yards but projected out to the left at longer range. This would be expected. 

Could you make clearer your first post unless I did read it correctly. Thanks.


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Longbowfanatic 20y with normal 3 under is a good starting place for tuning, after that you can start tuning for crawls, because under 20 yards you wont get useful or accurate feedback from the Bareshaft. I actually worked my way from 20y to 30y with normal 3 under gapping then it was just a small tweak of the plunger to get it right for Stringwalking crawl. Makes it quick and easy to tune. Oh knowing what your 3 under point on is (so you know where to get the best SW tune) and to start off with and using a slightly stiffer arrow than normal also speeds up the process.:thumbs_up


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

I was worried about getting good arrow flight with BH's on distances outside of the tune distance you use for your crawl....but now I get it.

You tune for a mid range distance, depending on the competition/shot distance on game- whatever...... and anything close still has good arrow flight. The long shots on say a field round are hold overs anyway so good arrow flight there. Its maybe the very short walkups that you might see poor arrow flight.

Dang slick way of shooting that String walking is....


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

Stephen, I read your last post and it, too, confuses me as did longbowfanatic's post. It sounds like you shoot with your finger right under the arrow at 20 yards to start. Like you were setting up to shoot that way, not string walk. That's how I read it.

I do it differently knowing I'm never going to shoot conventionally with my index finger all the way up to the first nocking point until I run out of crawl at the top. I call that my POA as I believe you do too.

I set my bows at even tiller and find an average brace height. Call it 8.75". Then I stand at 25 yards and find a temporary nock position that allows me to be down the crawl where 25 yards puts me on the X. I jigger around with nock height until I get the bareshaft to fly the way I want at 25. All this time, even when moving nocking point slightly, I shoot from a 25 yard crawl position as per my tab markings. I might or might not play with plunger tension.

Now I have my most common distance set up for perfect bareshaft flight. I check with a few fletched shafts and maybe tweek this 25 yard crawl. Most time not. I then start bareshafting up and down for the other ranges. In almost every case I get a very good bareshaft result. If I don't, I then mess with tiller or plunger tensions. I might try different point weights too. I do not change arrow length preferring to tune the bow and not the arrow so much.

Maybe this is what you are doing but something in lost in translation? After all, you are English and speak that language. I'm American and speak only American but with an English accent.


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## Longbowfanatic (Mar 5, 2016)

Keeshond said:


> Not sure I follow you. Do you mean you shot 3-under with your tab directly under the arrow? You did this at 20 yards to tune. It sounds like you did not crawl down the string as would be needed to shoot point-on at 20 yards. If I'm reading you correctly.
> 
> It's sounds like you tuned the bow for ordinary shooting and chose a too-stiff arrow shaft that shot okay at 20 yards but projected out to the left at longer range. This would be expected.
> 
> Could you make clearer your first post unless I did read it correctly. Thanks.


Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I bareshaft tuned with normal three under (directly under the shaft) gapping. Once I got them tuned to my fletched arrow groups, I began stringwalking to check my arrow flight with my crawls. It didn't help that when I tuned the shafts, I accidentally used an 18 strand bow string (I have two 12 strand strings and one 18 strand string-Thought they were all the same). Once I began shooting my crawls out to 40 yards +, I noticed my shafts grouping stiff. I switched to my 12 strand string, which helped to weaken the shafts and bring them back right, toward the bullseye. As I said, If I could redo my screwed up tuning session, I would tune the bare shafts at my 25 y crawl with my 12 strand string and would have had better success...I think!


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## Longbowfanatic (Mar 5, 2016)

Stephen Morley said:


> Longbowfanatic 20y with normal 3 under is a good starting place for tuning, after that you can start tuning for crawls, because under 20 yards you wont get useful or accurate feedback from the Bareshaft. I actually worked my way from 20y to 30y with normal 3 under gapping then it was just a small tweak of the plunger to get it right for Stringwalking crawl. Makes it quick and easy to tune. Oh knowing what your 3 under point on is (so you know where to get the best SW tune) and to start off with and using a slightly stiffer arrow than normal also speeds up the process.:thumbs_up



Good stuff here, Stephen! Thx!


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

Longbow, try forgetting everything you know about normal tuning. This helps. LOL

You don't want your bareshafts at peak tune with your finger under the nock at 20 yards. You will never shoot at 20 yards like that if SWing.

Tune a bareshaft from your 20 yard crawl first. You don't have to be perfect as to this distance down the string. Not when first playing with this. Just drop down an inch and bare shaft at 20 until it flies like you want.

Then shoot from different crawls from 10 to POA and see what happens.

It takes time to get a feel for what your first 20 or 25 yard "Home" crawl will be. That's your most common distance and what I call home.


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## Longbowfanatic (Mar 5, 2016)

Keeshond said:


> Longbow, try forgetting everything you know about normal tuning. This helps. LOL
> 
> You don't want your bareshafts at peak tune with your finger under the nock at 20 yards. You will never shoot at 20 yards like that if SWing.
> 
> ...


Keeshond,

Yea, I knew I screwed up the tuning process after I cut & tunes my shafts with normal gapping at 20 y. LOL. I had been Sw'ing all summer with these shafts, but had never taken the time to tune bare shaft tune them. I had some time after 3-D season, so I decided to tune them. Boy, did I royally screw that up!


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

Longbowfanatic said:


> Keeshond,
> 
> Yea, I knew I screwed up the tuning process after I cut & tunes my shafts with normal gapping at 20 y. LOL. I had been Sw'ing all summer with these shafts, but had never taken the time to tune bare shaft tune them. I had some time after 3-D season, so I decided to tune them. Boy, did I royally screw that up!


I've made every error you can make. You have a ways to go in order to catch me. lol


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## cpnhgnlngct (Dec 9, 2010)

Keeshond said:


> Stephen, I read your last post and it, too, confuses me as did longbowfanatic's post. It sounds like you shoot with your finger right under the arrow at 20 yards to start. Like you were setting up to shoot that way, not string walk. That's how I read it.
> 
> I do it differently knowing I'm never going to shoot conventionally with my index finger all the way up to the first nocking point until I run out of crawl at the top. I call that my POA as I believe you do too.
> 
> ...


x2 - this is how I do it too, initial tuning distance varying on whatever game the setup is to be used for. If for hunting, that initial distance gets locked in with a brass nock, and I start mapping my gaps for anything under that distance. (fixed crawl)


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

equilibrium said:


> *I have a point at all my distances.*


Just how do you line up a 100-yard shot?


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

Arcus said:


> Just how do you line up a 100-yard shot?


*Probably, like everyone else. (NFAA)
If your serious, give me a couple of days to write it out. 
For me personally, archery is a psychological experiment and you have to commit fully to the process. 
To be honest, there are so many people that chat here with much more experience and knowledge then I have. I'm actually, just another fish swimming up stream. I struggle to get better everyday. 
I just want to do the best I can, by working hard and hope to have a day when it comes together. *


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## Keeshond (Sep 13, 2016)

Arcus said:


> Just how do you line up a 100-yard shot?


Arcus, I use the tree line and I'm not kidding. I pick a point over the target if I can find one. Just don't use clouds. The &@%$ things move. LOL


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## Arcus (Jul 7, 2005)

equilibrium said:


> *Probably, like everyone else. (NFAA)
> If your serious, give me a couple of days to write it out.
> For me personally, archery is a psychological experiment and you have to commit fully to the process.
> To be honest, there are so many people that chat here with much more experience and knowledge then I have. I'm actually, just another fish swimming up stream. I struggle to get better everyday.
> I just want to do the best I can, by working hard and hope to have a day when it comes together. *


I use the pick-a-point aiming method. Having a rather light draw weight, a 70-yarder has me putting my shelf on the bull. I haven't tried a 100-yarder, but I'm wondering if I would line up the bull with some point on my lower limb.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

Very helpful to hear how you guys tune for SW. 

I'm currently shooting off the shelf, any tips?


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## Stephen Morley (Aug 11, 2016)

Beendare said:


> I'm currently shooting off the shelf, any tips?


Keep your crawls compact/small, I mixed Gap and SW to make it work i.e I didn't SW under 20y




Arcus said:


> Just how do you line up a 100-yard shot?


Stringwalking you can do anything, so I lower my anchor to Oly under the chin which becomes a gap at 12 O'clock blue ring, various distances past my real 65y point can be achieved this way but takes practice to make changing anchors feel natural. I don't shoot 100y that often but have another good point on for 80y which I use often.


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