# Scopes.........Why Small vs Large ?



## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Personally I like the smaller housing so my eye doesn't have to move to far when I am aiming and trying to keep the scope level. Even when I shot the 1 3/8" scope I positioned the circle so it was sitting right on top of the level. Just made it easier for me to aim. Also if you are having a hard time getting the long distances the smaller housing means you can move your sight lower to achieve getting that few extra yards. Just MHO


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## sps3172 (Dec 14, 2007)

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to correct me if I'm wrong, however....

I'm under the impression that the main reason for leaning towards smaller scope bodies is to reduce the likelihood that you'll have arrow interference issues when you have to lower your scope for longer yardages.

I've also gleaned, from reading (i.e. haven't tried to confirm), that a 'true spot' type of lens is a challenge when the distance and target face size changes during a round. Your mileage may vary.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

sps3172 said:


> I'm sure someone will be along shortly to correct me if I'm wrong, however....
> 
> I'm under the impression that the main reason for leaning towards smaller scope bodies is to reduce the likelihood that you'll have arrow interference issues when you have to lower your scope for longer yardages.
> 
> I've also gleaned, from reading (i.e. haven't tried to confirm), that a 'true spot' type of lens is a challenge when the distance and target face size changes during a round. Your mileage may vary.


I would agree with your first point.. depending on your peep height, you may not have clearance when setting your scope down for 70-80yd targets.. I tried it with a 3D scope early on and learned my lesson by skipping my first 80 arrow down the trail to the target butt.. :doh: :embara: :chortle:

Personally, I love a truspot style lens.. I have shot them and now shoot an Xview (basically a frosted truspot). I have no issues with the different target faces and distances, as the faces grow or shrink along with the ranges shot from.  You do need to get used to drawing and sighting on the proper target with them though, especially a frosted one.. :lol: I shot my first 'wrong target' yesterday that I've shot in years... but I was having some issues and was a bit distracted, not really focusing on that shot as I aimed and drew..


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Reasons for Small Scope for Field*

Small scope allows more clearance between arrow and bottom of scope for maximizing allowable movement on the slide for long distances. For people with draws shorter than 28" a small scope will allow the outside rim of the scope to be centered in the peep when using a peep with a smaller orifice (more precise aiming). As far as true spot lenses for field, I tried it and did not like it at all. The grind disappears in the dark tunnel shots and is almost impossible to see on the black hunter faces. I realize that some people do use them for field shooting but I much prefer the clear picture I get with a standard lense and a yellow circle.
Jbird


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## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

A small scope housing will also allow you to shoot a smaller diameter peep and still center the scope housing inside it.


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## sps3172 (Dec 14, 2007)

Would someone care to comment on what constitutes a 'large' vs a 'small' scope? I've been getting a 'rig' together over the last month (more work than you might remember, when starting from scratch) and have settled on a 35mm Black Eagle housing. I realize that it's a 'medium' when compared to the 2 other Sure-loc sizes but wasn't sure how it compared over the entire spectrum of available scopes.

While we're at it, what is considered a 'small' peep? Is it 1/16th? 3/32nd? I doubt as big as 1/8th would be considered small but again, people rarely provide numbers...and just use the terms 'large' or 'small'.

Thanks in advance....looking forward to an education


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Small*

In scopes I would say small is represented by the 29 mm choices or 1 1/8" in American sizes. Many people consider the Fletcher Tru Peep to be the defacto standard for peeps. I prefer their "small" size for dark courses and the "micro" for bright courses. Hope this helps.
Jbird


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I use the CR Target housing which is the smaller of the 2 CR housings.

I use a smaller housing because I don't want or need to see that much of the target.....or area around the target which is what you need to see in 3D because you need to see where you are on the target. Plus the extra clearance...although I can still get the needed clearance with a larger scope.

that being said.....I used to have a Black Eagle. I liked the glass...super clear and the scope was nice......but it was steep that's for sure. I knew I wasn't going to shoot a lower score because I didn't have the lens. So when I needed a stronger lens I sold the Black Eagle. But I had a 29 mm and if I were to go back to the scope I would get the 35mm. If they had that when I got mine I would be still shooting it. For my taste the 29mm is too small. I like them in the 35mm range. It lets in a little more light :wink:


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

I haven't read all the other posts so forgive me if I'm double posting.
But the biggest advantage for me is less distraction. A smaller scope concentrates my focus to a smaller area, and makes aiming easier. I want to see the target I am aiming at not the entire butt. The less I can see the easier it is for me to focus on the center.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

Thanks, and keep the thoughts coming. 

I'm thinking about putting my 35mm Black Eagle on my field rig....... along with a dot........ and moving my CBE back over to my 3D rig since smaller is no advantage that I see in 3D. I get clearance on the long shots with the CBE in field, but I do note how close it is to the nocked arrow. Like Brown Hornet, I picture the 35mm being pretty ideal for a lot of reasons. I guess I won't know until I try, plus it saves me from having to buy anything else, which is a good thing. And the Black Eagle/Swarofski lens is definitely great.

I'd love to try a Truspot, but maybe not enough to have to buy one to do it. I gues I could have them make me a lens for my 35mm, and that doesn't cost too much, so I might take that gamble. About $85 I believe.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

I have just started field this year, so I am far from an expert, but have done a fair amount of experimenting with scope, lens, pin/dot/ring/frosted lenses. For me, I like the small housings/lenses. I am using the Shibuya 29mm scope and lens, and right now I am using a flo. green stick on ring. I had been using a cheap version of a frosted lens, which I liked, but I did have an instance or two of shooting the wrong target with it. If you are curious about the frosted lens, I would try making my own before spending the money to buy one. It's very simple. Go get some clear address labels for computer printing (they are actually frosted). Go to a hobby store and buy a piece of brass tubing in the size you would like your clear spot to be. I used 5/16" and liked that at pretty much all distances. Sharpen an edge on the tubing and use it as a punch to cut out a spot on the lable, then stick the label on the lens (with the spot centered on the lens), and use an Xacto knife to cut the label around the lens. Also, if I were you, I would definately go ahead and use the 35mm Black Eagle for now. It is still on the small(ish) side, and should give you plenty of clearance, and should be a good starting point to help you decide what works for you. Then you can always buy a smaller or larger one later if you decide it is needed. Just my thoughts...


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

TANC...I know we discussed this some already, buit here is my thinking on the subject for what its worth...

I use a small housing for 2 reasons, and neither has to do with clearance:

1) I don't like to have to re-shift my focus by a large amount to see my bubble...

2) I don't want to have to use a clarifier outside. Using a really small hole in my peep helps me get a clear sight picture, but I'f I'm using a big scope, I now can't see the housing to center up. So a small scope allows me the "best of both worlds"

As for the Tru-spot...You either like it or you don't, I happen to be in the camp that likes it...and we discussed why the other day...


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

TANC said:


> Thanks, and keep the thoughts coming.
> 
> I'm thinking about putting my 35mm Black Eagle on my field rig....... along with a dot........ and moving my CBE back over to my 3D rig since smaller is no advantage that I see in 3D. I get clearance on the long shots with the CBE in field, but I do note how close it is to the nocked arrow. Like Brown Hornet, I picture the 35mm being pretty ideal for a lot of reasons. I guess I won't know until I try, plus it saves me from having to buy anything else, which is a good thing. And the Black Eagle/Swarofski lens is definitely great.
> 
> I'd love to try a Truspot, but maybe not enough to have to buy one to do it. I gues I could have them make me a lens for my 35mm, and that doesn't cost too much, so I might take that gamble. About $85 I believe.


Watch the classifieds...you can find them at pretty good prices from time to time...


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

psargeant said:


> ....I don't want to have to use a clarifier outside. Using a really small hole in my peep helps me get a clear sight picture, but I'f I'm using a big scope, I now can't see the housing to center up. So a small scope allows me the "best of both worlds"


Right there is the reason I have to move to smaller. I, too, like a really small peep, and my CBE housing is way too big for that. 

I actually have already moved the 35mm Black Eagle over with a very small orange dot, and now I have to play with distance from riser to get the best housing size match to the peep, then sight it back in. 

And I'm thinking about changing fletching colors to make my spotters happy, but white and red shows up good as long as it's in the black dot. :darkbeer:

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I'm gaining on this field stuff slowly, but a couple of targets are killing me everytime. At Yadkin, I have to be better prepared for that first shot since it starts out so tough first 5 targets. Saturday I didn't do that and payed for it. Shot pretty good other than the first 3. Muscles hadn't settled down yet, and that's not enough practice shots. But I'll get there.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

TANC said:


> Right there is the reason I have to move to smaller. I, too, like a really small peep, and my CBE housing is way too big for that.
> 
> I actually have already moved the 35mm Black Eagle over with a very small orange dot, and now I have to play with distance from riser to get the best housing size match to the peep, then sight it back in.
> 
> ...


35mm is too big for me, I try to find the smallest scope I can. I may be one of the only folks who like the Vegas top Gun...Looks like something that you'd make in your basement, but about the smallest housing out...


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

psargeant said:


> 35mm is too big for me, I try to find the smallest scope I can. I may be one of the only folks who like the Vegas top Gun...Looks like something that you'd make in your basement, but about the smallest housing out...


Yes, I would order the 29mm probably if ordering, but I already have a 35mm, which saves me $300 plus.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

TANC said:


> Right there is the reason I have to move to smaller. I, too, like a really small peep, and my CBE housing is way too big for that.
> 
> I actually have already moved the 35mm Black Eagle over with a very small orange dot, and now I have to play with distance from riser to get the best housing size match to the peep, then sight it back in.
> 
> ...


TANC, hopefully you will get a chance to test out that "very small orange dot" in "real world" conditions before it really counts. I use a very small orange dot as well BUT it is inside a ring. There are several targets at DCWC, #s 10, 14, & 15 in particular that are kinda dark and that dot simply disappears (for me). I used a large dot for a while at the beginning of the year. While it was consistently easy to see, I caught myself developing a form of "target panic" when my mind would not let me cover the target dot. So for me, the small dot inside a ring seems to work the best. 

BTW: Congrats on what was probably your first AMFS "win" at an NCFAA shoot.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> TANC, hopefully you will get a chance to test out that "very small orange dot" in "real world" conditions before it really counts. I use a very small orange dot as well BUT it is inside a ring. There are several targets at DCWC, #s 10, 14, & 15 in particular that are kinda dark and that dot simply disappears (for me). I used a large dot for a while at the beginning of the year. While it was consistently easy to see, I caught myself developing a form of "target panic" when my mind would not let me cover the target dot. So for me, the small dot inside a ring seems to work the best.
> 
> BTW: Congrats on what was probably your first AMFS "win" at an NCFAA shoot.


Small orange dot is what I've been using. Inside a ring.

As far as the win, I don't care about that. Right now I'm just wanting to improve to a point where I can consistently get in the 530's. Might not sound like a lot to many, but it's a big goal for me.....and achievable. Then we'll worry about the next goal after getting there. 

Last 3 or 4 times I've shot, I've had streaks that were pretty good, but a couple of targets, or getting worn out, just kills me. Saturday I had runs of 10 targets on both halves where I only dropped 7 or 8 points, but those first 3 really hammered me. And the last one when I was really tired. But thanks for noticing. 

LoneEagle is the one we need to watch. Improving leaps and bounds. She shot 3 solid halves Saturday...........with strep throat.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

TANC said:


> Yes, I would order the 29mm probably if ordering, but I already have a 35mm, which saves me $300 plus.


I've been shooting my CR Apex Target scope all year. It's slightly smaller than the 35mm. I also have been using the same fiber and light that I use in 3D. It has been more than helpful to be able to adjust the intensity of the fiber on some of the high/low light situations out there. I've just had a hard time finding a dot that I can see consistently from one target to another.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

TANC said:


> Small orange dot is what I've been using. Inside a ring.
> 
> As far as the win, I don't care about that. Right now I'm just wanting to improve to a point where I can consistently get in the 530's. Might not sound like a lot to many, but it's a big goal for me.....and achievable. Then we'll worry about the next goal after getting there.
> 
> ...


Know exactly what you mean - had a pretty good round going at DCWC last Thu. then on the last 4 targets just ran out of stamina and started dropping my bow arm and missing "just out the bottom". Come and join us this week if you can.

And you're right about LoneEagle! Just wondering - I watched her shoot a 264 half one Sat. after her, Ron, and I took a lunch break. Her current avatar came about from that break. Didn't anyone notice her slipping off to any hidden "group tighteners" during the round, did they? :wink:


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Know exactly what you mean - had a pretty good round going at DCWC last Thu. then on the last 4 targets just ran out of stamina and started dropping my bow arm and missing "just out the bottom". Come and join us this week if you can.
> 
> And you're right about LoneEagle! Just wondering - I watched her shoot a 264 half one Sat. after her, Ron, and I took a lunch break. Her current avatar came about from that break. Didn't anyone notice her slipping off to any hidden "group tighteners" during the round, did they? :wink:



Is it me or is the level of shooting here in NC starting to REALLY rise?? Seems like we got new shooters bringing some real game and some of the veterans stepping things up. Well except for Sarge.:chortle:


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Spoon13 said:


> Is it me or is the level of shooting here in NC starting to REALLY rise?? Seems like we got new shooters bringing some real game and some of the veterans stepping things up. Well except for Sarge.:chortle:


Maybe some "Got Serious" :tongue:


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Maybe some "Got Serious" :tongue:


The more people that start shooting, the more "get serious" that happens, don't you think ? Brings out the competitor in all of us. I won't speak for anyone else, but I haven't ever done anything good enough to suit me. Always looking for better. :wink:

I have been begging guys here lately to give Field a try. I get a lot of "I've been wanting to do that", but that's where it ends. I keep telling them that if they will just try it, they will find out a lot about their bows and their shooting. Can't hurt any other venue they love. I'll be doing some more chewie tournaments in the near future, but I'm picking and choosing now where I want to go rather than going to all of them. This has been fun...........and a new challenge. And Saturday shoots is a BIG plus.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

psargeant said:


> 35mm is too big for me, I try to find the smallest scope I can. I may be one of the only folks who like the Vegas top Gun...Looks like something that you'd make in your basement, but about the smallest housing out...


I looked that thing up on the internet. Only $90 including lens.  Can that be right ? And you were able to get a truspot made for it ? It has a removeable lens ? I notice my Black Eagle lens is part of the threaded housing and is not removable from that housing...........I don't think. Does that Top Gun work on a SureLoc Challenger sight ? If all the answers are right, it might be a cheap experiment.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

golfingguy27 said:


> I have just started field this year, so I am far from an expert, but have done a fair amount of experimenting with scope, lens, pin/dot/ring/frosted lenses. For me, I like the small housings/lenses. I am using the Shibuya 29mm scope and lens, and right now I am using a flo. green stick on ring. I had been using a cheap version of a frosted lens, which I liked, but I did have an instance or two of shooting the wrong target with it. If you are curious about the frosted lens, I would try making my own before spending the money to buy one. It's very simple. Go get some clear address labels for computer printing (they are actually frosted). Go to a hobby store and buy a piece of brass tubing in the size you would like your clear spot to be. I used 5/16" and liked that at pretty much all distances. Sharpen an edge on the tubing and use it as a punch to cut out a spot on the lable, then stick the label on the lens (with the spot centered on the lens), and use an Xacto knife to cut the label around the lens. Also, if I were you, I would definately go ahead and use the 35mm Black Eagle for now. It is still on the small(ish) side, and should give you plenty of clearance, and should be a good starting point to help you decide what works for you. Then you can always buy a smaller or larger one later if you decide it is needed. Just my thoughts...


Good idea.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

TANC said:


> I looked that thing up on the internet. Only $90 including lens.  Can that be right ? And you were able to get a truspot made for it ? It has a removeable lens ? I notice my Black Eagle lens is part of the threaded housing and is not removable from that housing...........I don't think. Does that Top Gun work on a SureLoc Challenger sight ? If all the answers are right, it might be a cheap experiment.


Yes to all questions...except I never had a truspot made but I called the guy at Tru-spot and he told me he could...

The lens that comes with the Vegas Top Gun ain't a super high quality lens...If you go with the Vegas Big view, Brite-Site offers a lens just like the Truspot I think they call it a twin view or something like that...and the Vegas Big View is still a pretty small housing...


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Know exactly what you mean - had a pretty good round going at DCWC last Thu. then on the last 4 targets just ran out of stamina and started dropping my bow arm and missing "just out the bottom". Come and join us this week if you can.
> 
> And you're right about LoneEagle! Just wondering - I watched her shoot a 264 half one Sat. after her, Ron, and I took a lunch break. Her current avatar came about from that break. Didn't anyone notice her slipping off to any hidden "group tighteners" during the round, did they? :wink:


She wasn't exactly hiding her group tighteners...It wasn't Michelob ultra this time though:secret: Let's just say carson and I almost filed a protest, but didn't want to end up looking like cry babies for getting whooped by a girl...


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

psargeant said:


> She wasn't exactly hiding her group tighteners...It wasn't Michelob ultra this time though:secret: Let's just say carson and I almost filed a protest, but didn't want to end up looking like cry babies for getting whooped by a girl...


Don't tell me she was "self prescribing" meds. :tongue:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

:secret: I ain't talking for fear she'll see and get even :darkbeer:

BTW- the new guy...saw him today at lunch practicing and working on his marks...I think we've got a new shooter on our hands...


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

psargeant said:


> :secret: I ain't talking for fear she'll see and get even :darkbeer:
> 
> BTW- the new guy...saw him today at lunch practicing and working on his marks...I think we've got a new shooter on our hands...


GREAT - they're (new recruits) out there, we just got to find them. :tongue:


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

FYI.......I just talked to TruSpot. They can't currently accomodate SureLoc Black Eagle users, but they will be able to in the near future. Working on it now. In fact, I think he also said they were coming out with a 29mm scope housing soon. What they have now (for field) is just larger than the 35mm, but they do have it stocked in black and numerous lens options. $175 TYD for scope and TruSpot lens in about 2 days. Works with SureLoc sights.


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## LoneEagle0607 (Jan 15, 2008)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Don't tell me she was "self prescribing" meds. :tongue:


I wouldn't have made it without "self prescribing":wink: No sneaking off for group tightners. I was open about my group tightner. Hopefully won't be sick like that again and need those kind of group tightners:wink: Group tightners at lunch are preferable:darkbeer:


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## LoneEagle0607 (Jan 15, 2008)

psargeant said:


> :secret: I ain't talking for fear she'll see and get even :darkbeer:
> 
> BTW- the new guy...saw him today at lunch practicing and working on his marks...I think we've got a new shooter on our hands...


Great Hope he will be joining us soon.

I better be nice to you because you could put a hurtin' on my new arrows:zip:


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

whenn I got muself 2 truespots (x6-0.25 and x8-0.365) 2 years ago here from AT, immediatelly won the indoor league with x6-0.25. I ground the lens OD's to the size for SHREWD 3D scope, have 2 spare blank rings for it. 
Last summer I shot first time full FITA in my local club, with the 3D shrewd, 6x shrewd lens and up pin, shibuya sight extended to 6" so the sight radius is 30.9", I had a full clearance on 90 meters, my bow shoots 276 f/s on #59, 380 grain arrows.
This weekend I won the Ontario compound masters with the same 3D scope and thruespot 6x-0.25 in puring rain over weekend. 
So, just to finalize, the 3D scope still can give a clearance on 90m, but, as somebody sad before, the trick is in the iris size in the peep! For a that reason Im looking for a 35mm scope for incomming FIELD, but no truespot, you loose the inside magnification boundary in the dark tunnels and fahr distances the white will blend with white. I didn't figure out yet what to do next.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

CR target scope with a 6X 3/8" grind True Spot lense that I frosted. Works perfect for me on the field course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

pragmatic_lee said:


> TANC, hopefully you will get a chance to test out that "very small orange dot" in "real world" conditions before it really counts. I use a very small orange dot as well BUT it is inside a ring. There are several targets at DCWC, #s 10, 14, & 15 in particular that are kinda dark and that dot simply disappears (for me). I used a large dot for a while at the beginning of the year. While it was consistently easy to see, I caught myself developing a form of "target panic" when my mind would not let me cover the target dot. So for me, the small dot inside a ring seems to work the best.
> 
> BTW: Congrats on what was probably your first AMFS "win" at an NCFAA shoot.


I was struggling with losing my dot (green) on the animal round when TN Archer had a suggestion.

I went from a 6X to a 4X and slightly decreased my dot size. In the process I went from a #2 clarifier and a crystal clear target face to a hollow aperture and a bit of a fuzzy sight picture. I don't lose my dot that way


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