# OK... I got me a used hinge on AT today...



## NE1C_my_arrow (Apr 17, 2006)

I know the feeling. I've had various BT releases sitting in my arrow bag now for about three months just waiting for the right time (and cojones) to start using them. Finally started about a week ago and been using BT pretty much exclusively since then, but it scared the poop out of me for a while.  The first one I bought was a Tru Ball 3 finger, couldn't do it. Next one was a Scott Longhorn with the clicker. Love the clicker. I know it kind of defeats the purpose, but it was the crutch I needed to get started. Maybe one day I'll turn the moon over.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

2005Ultramag said:


> Tru-Ball Gold 4 finger.
> 
> Sure is pretty too.:shade:
> 
> ...


Take it *SLOW*................................ It's gonna take some time to adjust to a surprise release. Do not shoot a tournament until you have spent some time with the hinge. I highly recommend some up-close, blank bale shooting with your eyes closed. Then, start up close shooting at a dot. I'm speaking from personal experience...no BS.

By the way...when I switched years ago Larry Hix from AAA told me it takes about a year to complete the change. :mg: He was right. Sooooooooo, be patient. Good Luck!


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

NE1C_my_arrow said:


> I know the feeling. I've had various BT releases sitting in my arrow bag now for about three months just waiting for the right time (and cojones) to start using them. Finally started about a week ago and been using BT pretty much exclusively since then, but it scared the poop out of me for a while.  The first one I bought was a Tru Ball 3 finger, couldn't do it. Next one was a Scott Longhorn with the clicker. Love the clicker. I know it kind of defeats the purpose, but it was the crutch I needed to get started. Maybe one day I'll turn the moon over.


I shot one once before I got this one. Wasn't crazy about it then. I've been shooting field with my Tru-Ball Stinger, and TrueFire Hurricane hunting releases, and it's been giving me consistency problems. The goal here is to train myself to hold on the spot better than I do now, and I can't punch a trigger if I have no trigger. When I get used to it my scores SHOULD go up, but that remains to be seen.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

mdbowhunter said:


> Take it *SLOW*................................ It's gonna take some time to adjust to a surprise release. Do not shoot a tournament until you have spent some time with the hinge. I highly recommend some up-close, blank bale shooting with your eyes closed. Then, start up close shooting at a dot. I'm speaking from personal experience...no BS.
> 
> By the way...when I switched years ago Larry Hix from AAA told me it takes about a year to complete the change. :mg: He was right. Sooooooooo, be patient. Good Luck!


WOW! A year? Not a handful of weekends? 

I'll be warming up to it a little in my basement today. One thing I do like is that where it goes off is adjustable, so I think I'm going to play with that a little too. It feels a little deep right now.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

2005Ultramag said:


> WOW! A year? Not a handful of weekends?
> 
> I'll be warming up to it a little in my basement today. One thing I do like is that where it goes off is adjustable, so I think I'm going to play with that a little too. It feels a little deep right now.


Yeah, it takes awhile. I started my switch during indoor season...so I had lots of time on my hinge before shooting beyond 20 yards. Also, I spent *LOTS* of time shooting up close...in my basement...with my eyes closed. I can't stress enough how effective this method can be. You concentrate on the *FEEL* of the shot...not shooting at a bulls-eye. Really great way to adjust to a new release...or fix form flaws.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

mdbowhunter said:


> Yeah, it takes awhile. I started my switch during indoor season...so I had lots of time on my hinge before shooting beyond 20 yards. Also, I spent *LOTS* of time shooting up close...in my basement...with my eyes closed. I can't stress enough how effective this method can be. You concentrate on the *FEEL* of the shot...not shooting at a bulls-eye. Really great way to adjust to a new release...or fix form flaws.


Sounds like a great way to start. Thanks for the advice.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

2005Ultramag said:


> Sounds like a great way to start. Thanks for the advice.


Steve read this
http://www.archerytalkblog.com/?p=11


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

BOWGOD said:


> Steve read this
> http://www.archerytalkblog.com/?p=11


That's a nice article Dave.  

IMHO the blank bale shooting is an absolute *MUST*. I prefer the 'eyes-closed' method because you can truly concentrate on other issues like anchor, back muscles, grip, arm position, etc. Just my experience and $0.02 worth.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

OK. Thanks Dave. I'm gonna print that out, take it one step at a time, and check off each step as I go.

Now... is using my wrist rocket in competitions while I'm trying to adjust to the BT going to complicate things?


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

2005Ultramag said:


> OK. Thanks Dave. I'm gonna print that out, take it one step at a time, and check off each step as I go.
> 
> Now... is using my wrist rocket in competitions while I'm trying to adjust to the BT going to complicate things?


You guys need to stop babying yourselfs and stop being scared or timid about making the switch 

It aint that hard....but if your timid or iffy with your approach then you might as well keep shooting whatever release your punching now. Cus its gonna take you well over a year to get decent with one if you ever do 

Why go back to the release that you aren't shooting the way you want just because its a "shoot"? What are you gonna do shoot a little lower maybe...is it really that big of a deal to go from say a 505-510 back to a 495? 

Look at Sticky... I gave him a hinge...he played with it for a couple days and then shot a good score... I think higher then he had shot all year....now he is shooting in the 520s...its been a little over a month since he fired his first arrow with on EVER. But he didn't baby himself either. 

It really isn't that complicated.... Draw the bow... Maintain bt and relax the tension in your hand and continue to maintain bt or pull whatever terminology you need . The release will fire. 

On the blank bale....I don't believe in doing the eyes closed thing long.... Maybe a day or two. I do it with just a blank target and my eyes open...take the dot/fiber out of your lens though.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

2005Ultramag said:


> OK. Thanks Dave. I'm gonna print that out, take it one step at a time, and check off each step as I go.
> 
> Now... is using my wrist rocket in competitions while I'm trying to adjust to the BT going to complicate things?


Not as long as you can flip the switch in your head. What you will likely find though is as you progress through the learning "process" you will start shooting the wrist rocket with back tension with out even thinking about it.

Just take your time the biggest mistake made is trying to rush the process. Learn the shot, then learn to trust it. Tourny season is all but over now so that will give you all fall/winter to ease yourself through the process.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> You guys need to stop babying yourselfs and stop being scared or timid about making the switch
> 
> It aint that hard....but if your timid or iffy with your approach then you might as well keep shooting whatever release your punching now. Cus its gonna take you well over a year to get decent with one if you ever do
> 
> ...


Once again...depends on the individual. Apparently Sticky made the switch easily. My experience wasn't the same. It took me awhile to get the hang of shooting a Stan. I did the 'blank-bale' stuff in my basement for a few weeks. That was the method that worked for *ME*.

Soooooooooo, if you can switch...and all goes well...then dive in head first. But, when somebody asks...I will *ALWAYS* recommend a slower approach.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> You guys need to stop babying yourselfs and stop being scared or timid about making the switch
> 
> It aint that hard....but if your timid or iffy with your approach then you might as well keep shooting whatever release your punching now. Cus its gonna take you well over a year to get decent with one if you ever do





BOWGOD said:


> Just take your time the biggest mistake made is trying to rush the process. Learn the shot, then learn to trust it. Tourny season is all but over now so that will give you all fall/winter to ease yourself through the process.


Two guys I know and respect.

:BrownBear:
(never though I'd use that bear)

Well... I'm not going to use in Sunday because It's messing with me as it is.

I want to at least get a good feel for it, and get some spots time in with it at the indoor range before I try a field shoot wwith it.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

mdbowhunter said:


> Once again...depends on the individual. Apparently Sticky made the switch easily. My experience wasn't the same. It took me awhile to get the hang of shooting a Stan. I did the 'blank-bale' stuff in my basement for a few weeks. That was the method that worked for *ME*.
> 
> Soooooooooo, if you can switch...and all goes well...then dive in head first. But, when somebody asks...I will *ALWAYS* recommend a slower approach.


My point is DON'T baby the process....dive in the pool don't wade in the kiddie pool not trying to get all the way wet. 

If it takes you blank baling to get it down fine....do it to get the repitions....but don't bounce back and forth because your going to a local shoot...

Don't wait until later to start shooting it... 

Yes your scores are going to dip....but so what you MUST go in all the way or like I said your gonna take forever to get it or you never will and you will be a hinge puncher just like you were with the other release.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

2005Ultramag said:


> Two guys I know and respect.
> 
> :BrownBear:
> (never though I'd use that bear)
> ...


The shot isn't changing....I don't understand that....the release is changing.... 

I don't believe in long learning curves....if this is wrong and you show or tell me this is right....do it the right way.

The problem most people have is they set the release way too hot to begin with because they want it to go off when they want it to go off just like the other release was. You have to let go of that control and focus on AIMING only.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> The shot isn't changing....I don't understand that....the release is changing....
> 
> I don't believe in long learning curves....if this is wrong and you show or tell me this is right....do it the right way.
> 
> The problem most people have is they set the release way too hot to begin with because they want it to go off when they want it to go off just like the other release was. You have to let go of that control and focus on AIMING only.


I can see that point. 

I shot it for about a half hour this morning, and found myself anticipating the release, punching it, and flinching before the shot went off at times. By the end of the session I was feeling pretty good about shooting it. 
I just think that FOR ME it's too different, and too much change to get the thing on Thursday night, and take it to a field course on Sunday.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Steve if you think that you cannot punch the BT you are in for a rude awakening. Only thing if you punch a BT it can get REAL UGLY.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

I know I can punch it. I already have today.  Believe me I'd rather miss by a little than do that again. What I'm thinking is that the BT would be less succeptable to punching once I get used to using it properly. My motivation for trying BT is not so much to fix a sporadic punching issue as training myself to hold on the spot better than I do now. I need to get more consistent, and this is an attempt to try to do that. Like Hornet says, I'm shooting in the 496-509 range. That would be easier to take if I were shooting 17s, and 18s throughout the whole course. I don't shoot like that though. I've been shooting a bunch of 19s, a few 20s, and too many 16s, and 17s are messing up my rounds. Add to that, it's the mid-range targets I seem to mess up on more than the longer, or shorter ones.
It's not the equipment now, because I can smoke a 65 yard target more times than not, and I actually shot a 16 on a 20 yard face a few weeks ago.:mg: The BT is mostly an attempt to change out of some old, bad habits, and get myself more steady than I currently am on the spot. Might work... might not work. We'll see. It's certainly worth putting an effort into.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

2005Ultramag said:


> The goal here is to train myself to hold on the spot better than I do now, and I can't punch a trigger if I have no trigger.





mdbowhunter said:


> Once again...depends on the individual. Apparently Sticky made the switch easily.





2005Ultramag said:


> I found myself punching it





Rattleman said:


> Steve if you think that you cannot punch the BT you are in for a rude awakening. Only thing if you punch a BT it can get REAL UGLY.


 Man, I started to read this thread from post 1... checking quote boxes along the way as I saw your 'can't punch no trigger' post... I won't even say it.. :zip:

Jerry.. I ain't got it yet.. I get about 50% good shots off with it and about 25% of my poorly executed BT shots hit.. but I still force about 25% outta the dot.. but I committed to learning it, don't even carry another release with me (gave my old trigger to my buddy) and so I'm gonna work my way through it, a bit unconventionally, cause I really don't blank bale it and tweaking all the different aspects of your form to get consistency with a hinge takes a while. I'd have to agree with Larry.. I think this time next year, I'll be shootin the way I know I can and my scores will finally show it, but it'll be a struggle through the end of this field season and probly a bit bumpy in the spring too.. :mg: :chortle:

Steve, just take your time, work with it when you can (I highly recommend blank bailing) (no sight.. just take it off..) and eventually you'll start to figure out how it needs to be done for you to be consistent with it. There are tons of methods, no two exactly the same.. most work.. ya gotta do it and find out which one works best for you.. 

I'm gettin better with it, but not there yet, by any means.. :nono:  :darkbeer:


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Dude... you left out the last one! 



> I know I can punch it. I already have today.


---------------------------------------------

I'm like you in that i'm committed to getting there, but I also set myself a goal of a 520 round before I end this season.

I See that happening with the wrist rocket, but not with the BT starting this late into the game.

I plan to finish out this season's shoots with the wrist rocket (unless I get really comfortable with the BT really fast). 
While that's happening I'll work with the BT in the basement until I'm comfortable with it, practice on an indoor range, and likely shoot a winter spots league with it. _I SHOULD _be ready to get on a field course with it next spring.
If I try to go out on the course with it this weekend I'll likely be flinging arrows all over the place.

Might even rate an "*05UM was here!"*:chortle:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

2005Ultramag said:


> Dude... you left out the last one!


 :doh: :cheers:

Patience Grasshoppa.. it takes time to master the action of the hinge...


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

No busted lip? Yer ahead of most.. 

I ain't done it yet.. (thank you Lord) :chortle:


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

IGluIt4U said:


> No busted lip? Yer ahead of most..
> 
> I ain't done it yet.. (thank you Lord) :chortle:


Nope... but then I figured out something on my own last night that was in BOWGOD's blog today. 

I tied myself a big loop of old bow string, and started playing around with that before I ever put the release on my bow. That way I got a feel for where it MIGHT go off on the bow. Also, I've been using only my first two fingers to draw, which makes it a lot less likely that I'll have a premature release.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

2005Ultramag said:


> Nope... but then I figured out something on my own last night that was in BOWGOD's blog today.
> 
> I tied myself a big loop of old bow string, and started playing around with that before I ever put the release on my bow. That way I got a feel for where it MIGHT go off on the bow. Also, I've been using only my first two fingers to draw, which makes it a lot less likely that I'll have a premature release.


Yea, I use paracord...  It's a good way to try to get the hinge setup close, before you even pick up the bow.

I shoot a 3 finger and just bias most all my weight to my index finger during the draw, use the clicker and keep my bias on my index finger until I settle into full draw, then grip until my clicker clicks, then stop my grip and wait... and wait.. ok, punch now!


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

IGluIt4U said:


> Yea, I use paracord...  It's a good way to try to get the hinge setup close, before you even pick up the bow.
> 
> I shoot a 3 finger and just bias most all my weight to my index finger during the draw, use the clicker and keep my bias on my index finger until I settle into full draw, then grip until my clicker clicks, then stop my grip and wait... and wait.. ok, punch now!



I ain't got no clicker on mine... so it's wait... little twist, wait... little more twist... wait little more twist... wai... thwack! 

Ok... so that's where it is.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

2005Ultramag said:


> I ain't got no clicker on mine... so it's wait... little twist, wait... little more twist... wait little more twist... wai... thwack!
> 
> Ok... so that's where it is.


Oh young, inpatient Padawan....I also shoot a 3-finger hinge and really dig in with the index finger as I come to full draw. Pull hard against the stop and then anchor. When the reticule settles on the dot, I slowly balance the weight of the rest of my fingers on the release and begin to pull my elbow back and try really hard to not think of anything. I just try to burn a hole through that dot. :laser:

If I’m successful at thinking of nothing and just letting the shot go off, it goes in the middle. If my brain starts to think about the release and I don’t have the control to let down, I hit a 4 likely, maybe a 5 if lucky (this is where I usually am right now). HOWEVER, if my brain really stirs up the soup, I punch the *** thing and pray for a hail Mary. 

I’ve been working with it for 9 months since I started this archery game and am just now starting to feel more confident with it. Listen to the elders---don’t rush the process---don’t think about scores, they will come in time----commit to it fully. You’ll do more damage than good in the long run switching back and forth between the two. :thumbs_up:wink:

And stop twisting that wrist!!! :chortle:


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## south-paaw (Jul 3, 2006)

montigre said:


> Oh young, inpatient Padawan....I also shoot a 3-finger hinge and really dig in with the index finger as I come to full draw. Pull hard against the stop and then anchor. When the reticule settles on the dot, I slowly balance the weight of the rest of my fingers on the release and begin to pull my elbow back and try really hard to not think of anything. I just try to burn a hole through that dot. :laser:
> 
> If I’m successful at thinking of nothing and just letting the shot go off, it goes in the middle. If my brain starts to think about the release and I don’t have the control to let down, I hit a 4 likely, maybe a 5 if lucky (this is where I usually am right now). HOWEVER, if my brain really stirs up the soup, I punch the *** thing and pray for a hail Mary.
> 
> ...




```

```
mtn tiger-out.. ! 

( only thing is... he _is _the elder... hahahahaaaaa...:lol::lol:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

south-paaw said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> mtn tiger-out.. !
> ...



Shhhh....Don't tell him that.....:lol:


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

montigre said:


> Shhhh....Don't tell him that.....:lol:



Too late. I'm 51... and I know it, but I don't feel it. State of mind is more like 30-35:shade:


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

montigre said:


> Oh young, inpatient Padawan....I also shoot a 3-finger hinge and really dig in with the index finger as I come to full draw. Pull hard against the stop and then anchor. When the reticule settles on the dot, I slowly balance the weight of the rest of my fingers on the release and begin to pull my elbow back and try really hard to not think of anything. I just try to burn a hole through that dot. :laser:
> 
> If I’m successful at thinking of nothing and just letting the shot go off, it goes in the middle. If my brain starts to think about the release and I don’t have the control to let down, I hit a 4 likely, maybe a 5 if lucky (this is where I usually am right now). HOWEVER, if my brain really stirs up the soup, I punch the *** thing and pray for a hail Mary.
> 
> ...


The thing is... I want that 520 this year.
...and as for twisting... maybe the release is set too deep for me. I don't know enough about it yet to be able to determine that.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

Although I have never punched any release, I have had fun with some who were hinge punchers.

Just for that purpose, I used to carry a stan that would not go off. When encountering someone repeatedly punching a stan, I would offer the special one for them to try.

If you have never seen someone try to punch a stan that will not fire, you have missed one of the finer experiences in life.


Seriously though.

I think hinge releases with clickers and/or safeties are counterproductive to effective execution of the shot because both cause a transfer of tension to the arm and hand replacing relaxation and causing a loss of tension in the back muscles.

And never ever try to shoot a hinge set hot. You may as well continue punching your double sear.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> My point is DON'T baby the process....dive in the pool don't wade in the kiddie pool not trying to get all the way wet.


I totally agree with ya there buddy. If your gonna switch...commit to it and don't look back. As with everything in archery ya gotta find a learning system that works for *YOU*. I *DID* punch the Stan at first. That's the main reason I did lots of blank bale shooting. Plus...the reason for switching was mild target panic. I had found a way to punch just about every release made! 



IGluIt4U said:


> Jerry.. I ain't got it yet.. I get about 50% good shots off with it and about 25% of my poorly executed BT shots hit.. but I still force about 25% outta the dot.. but I committed to learning it, don't even carry another release with me (gave my old trigger to my buddy) and so I'm gonna work my way through it, a bit unconventionally, cause I really don't blank bale it and tweaking all the different aspects of your form to get consistency with a hinge takes a while. I'd have to agree with Larry.. I think this time next year, I'll be shootin the way I know I can and my scores will finally show it, but it'll be a struggle through the end of this field season and probly a bit bumpy in the spring too.. :mg: :chortle:


You've made some nice progress there Sticky. Shooting a PB not long after switching to a new release is pretty unusual. Congrats! But yes, it does take time. And yeah...Larry does know what he is talking about.


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## xpuncher (Apr 16, 2005)

2005Ultramag said:


> I ain't got no clicker on mine... so it's wait... little twist, wait... little more twist... wait little more twist... wai... thwack!
> 
> Ok... so that's where it is.


Steve if this is how you're shooting the release you my friend are already on your way to punching it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbs_do
Pull up to full draw and settle in to your cycle and pull thru the release untill it goes off!!!!!!!!!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

xpuncher said:


> Steve if this is how you're shooting the release you my friend are already on your way to punching it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbs_do
> Pull up to full draw and settle in to your cycle and pull thru the release untill it goes off!!!!!!!!!


Exactly.....you can't be trying to hold onto the shot until you get the dit in the middle either 

Neither should you be shooting a click the way he thinks you do. The clicker should be used as basically a safety. Draw the bow....settle into your anchor/shot....CLICK. Aim...Aim....bang 

If your aiming....pulling...click...aim....pull...bang your screwed.


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## PDX28 (May 26, 2008)

FS560 said:


> I think hinge releases with clickers and/or safeties are counterproductive to effective execution of the shot because both cause a transfer of tension to the arm and hand replacing relaxation and causing a loss of tension in the back muscles.


That's not necessarily true. I have a click on my release and no problem at all with losing tension. But that's maybe because I haven't shot anything else that way from day one on.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

PDX28 said:


> That's not necessarily true. I have a click on my release and no problem at all with losing tension. But that's maybe because I haven't shot anything else that way from day one on.


Correct you are.... If you shoot a hinge with a clicker the way it is ment to be shot that problem doesn't occur. 

I am actually going to go BACK to a clicker after Nationals. If I had made the decision before TODAY I would be shooting one next week :wink:


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## PDX28 (May 26, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> Correct you are.... If you shoot a hinge with a clicker the way it is ment to be shot that problem doesn't occur.
> 
> I am actually going to go BACK to a clicker after Nationals. If I had made the decision before TODAY I would be shooting one next week :wink:


I've learned it right from the source so I'm pretty sure everything is correct. Good luck at the Nationals Hornet.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

PDX28 said:


> I've learned it right from the source so I'm pretty sure everything is correct. Good luck at the Nationals Hornet.


I don't see how people can shoot them the other way.....that click in the middle of a shot throws everything out of whack. ;doh:

Thanks...should be a good time.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

I got some good hands on, and demonstration advice on how to shoot with it from some guys that use them at Harford Bowmen today. I've some work to do with it yet before I shoot a round with it.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

OK... I couldn't resist.

I took it up to the indoor range this evening, and shot some Vegas faces tonight. After about 15 minutes I was popping a about an even number of 10s, and 9s, witha few "flyers" out in the red that I held too long. I had a few that were just way out of control too.
Somehow shooting this release is both comfortable, and uncomfortable at the same time. It's amazing how much better a person can hold on a spot when they have to do it to make a shot. I've never settled a pin down like I was settling it down tonight.


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