# Joe Rogan and Cam Hanes shoot 84# daily how long until shoulder problems



## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Joe Rogan recently stated his new techno hunt system is set up for low poundage bows 70# and below but he is still able to shoot his 84# bow at. He shoots very often how long until we see his shoulders give out. I'v learned on AT over the past few months anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding"


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## Carbon60 (Jun 8, 2017)

I don’t think it’s dumb to shoot above 60 pounds. I think people are way to quick to criticize and look for easy targets to make themselves feel better about not being able to do what others can. Cameron Hanes is a guy that runs 200 mile marathons and is obviously in shape. I think pulling 84 pounds is probably not that difficult to do for someone who puts in the amount of work he does. Both Rogan and Hanes lift weighs on a daily basis and Rogan does jujitsu so if they end up with shoulder problems it will most likely be a combination of things that cause it. I know if I ever have the opportunity to hunt some of the monster animals they do I will crank up the poundage and practice so I can get the most speed and kinetic energy possible. That being said if increasing poundage leads to poor accuracy than it’s not worth it. Of course all of this is in my own opinion.


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## njbowhntr (Jan 18, 2015)

Both of those guys work out with weights on a very extreme regular basis. They will probably not have any issues.

Big issue I see with guys that pull a bow constantly and do not exercise on a regular basis will have the most issues. Reason for this is the uneven pulling of your spine. I do not lift heavy weights anymore, stick to a low weight isolation work out. This keeps the muscle pulling on your spinal cord evenly from left to right. When we do not compensate the opposite side of our body's we eventually end up with upper spinal cord/shoulder issues. 

Granted I have also realized that with the newer speed bows I do not have to pull nearly the weights I use to have to pull, even then I did not need all the weight back then either.


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## Gamover06 (Aug 20, 2014)

Like Carbon60 said they will have shoulder problems do to the amount of lifting they do not how much they pull back. Those people saying that you should never go over 60 pounds are probably the same people that say shoot a light arrow because it is faster and a good shot placement will give you a pass through. I shoot 70 because I like shooting heavy arrows and still want to maintain speed. As I get older I will probably lower the poundage but until then I will keep shooting 70.


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## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Too many variables to say that 84lbs. is going to cause shoulder issues. We had an AT'er named Whack & Stack from West Virginia. He was a Behimeth of a man. He drew and shot a custom made 115lb bow easier than I could draw and shoot a 60lb. bow. 
I hunted with Kevin Strothers years ago. He was having back issues so he backed his bow down to 120lbs. Some people are just naturally stronger and or have built up to these heavy draw weights.
Today's bows are plenty powerful enough to kill any N. American big game animal, with a well placed shot and a sharp broadhead at 50 lbs.:secret:


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## V-TRAIN (Feb 27, 2009)

I don't think they will have a issue as long as they continue working out. I lift weights regularly and shot 80# bows for years and never had issues. I just switched to 70# a couple years ago just because it was easier, an i have gotten older and lazy. lol 
80# was awesome for hunting though, i shattered opposite shoulder blades on quartering shots several times over 35 yards and i only have a 27" draw, they would drop like a rock, was a sweet sight.


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## BuckFever200 (Jun 30, 2007)

Ok I'll bite. Where on AT did you "learn that anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary" and especially "stupid un evolved chest pounding?" I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or actually believe this. But we're both Texans here. Let's be real. Bigger is better. Always.

Being serious, 80# (and more) have a time and place. Calling a given bow poundage unnecessary without any other context will never be true. Keeping things North American, 80# is completely appropriate for Moose, Bison, Brown Bear, Musk Ox, big feral boars, etc. Also helpful when you want to punch holes in wood when you don't have a drill handy. Or just don't want to worry as much about 42 yards vs 45 yards. Whatever the case, there are plenty of real world scenarios where high poundage increases odds of success significantly. And on elk/deer, it will never hurt so long as the individual archer isn't sacrificing accuracy to pull the weight. That last bit about the individual archer is the most suspect, but also based on context. Which is my point.

Rogan is the exception to virtually every rule. His training, health, strength, and even medicines are all wildly different from the average person. Cam too. Frankly it would surprise me if Joe ever had to decrease poundage based on wear and tear from pulling it. And even if he did, he'd just go to Panama, get stem cell injections and come back pulling #90. The man is savage.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

I like to shoot my 80lber 20-30 shots a week just to keep muscle memory then shoot my 70lber, 60lber and 50lber also the same each week.


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## ppkaprince98 (Mar 13, 2008)




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## Khunter (Feb 25, 2004)

There is no way to know, everyone is different. My Dad is 68 and pulls 72lbs pretty easily, never had any issues.


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

Hanes is already in pain. He was taking ibuprofen daily.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

I have posted on this before but I think a great reason to go down in weight is BECAUSE you work out heavy. I try to train hard, of course sometimes there are periods that I don’t train as hard as I would like and there are times that life just happens, but when training hard you should be sore. When you stop becoming sore you have stopped the required efforts to require true growth. That “soreness” and growth go hand in hand. When I go to shoot after a hard workout (or the day after) it is that soreness that causes bad form quicker or could lead to an injury. That is probably the best reason for lifting and going down in draw weight, not up. 

Of course if those two men find it easy to shoot 80 plus pounds even sore then they should keep it up. I would like to think that both are smart enough to understand that drawing a lot of weight only adds to the wear and tear on their shoulders and bodies, not extends the time they have (neither are young) to be on top of their game. When their shoulders do develop issues they can say it was the lifting or whatever that caused the problem and they will be right, but the added strain of shooting heavy weight bows does not help. 
It is their bodies though and grown men so whatever they want to do is on them.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

4IDARCHER said:


> I have posted on this before but I think a great reason to go down in weight is BECAUSE you work out heavy. I try to train hard, of course sometimes there are periods that I don’t train as hard as I would like and there are times that life just happens, but when training hard you should be sore. When you stop becoming sore you have stopped the required efforts to require true growth. That “soreness” and growth go hand in hand. When I go to shoot after a hard workout (or the day after) it is that soreness that causes bad form quicker or could lead to an injury. That is probably the best reason for lifting and going down in draw weight, not up.
> 
> Of course if those two men find it easy to shoot 80 plus pounds even sore then they should keep it up. I would like to think that both are smart enough to understand that drawing a lot of weight only adds to the wear and tear on their shoulders and bodies, not extends the time they have (neither are young) to be on top of their game. When their shoulders do develop issues they can say it was the lifting or whatever that caused the problem and they will be right, but the added strain of shooting heavy weight bows does not help.
> It is their bodies though and grown men so whatever they want to do is on them.


I think the point many have made is 80# may not be "heavy" to these guys. Heavy is different for everyone.


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

I shot 80 plus lbs for years a long time ago...all about muscle memory...I am between 155-160 and it wasn’t an issue...I started shooting lower weights due to non related injuries but if I worked back up to it I think I could handle it...but I also think I am more accurate at lower weight.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

They’ll be just fine , lol this topic always makes me laugh . 


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## Xclarkesthespot (Jan 8, 2018)

Agreed, I don't think there will be any shoulder problems that come from this, that is rather crazy. 80# is not heavy for someone who is in shape and shooting regularly. Know your body


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## stazmaniac (Feb 28, 2017)

"anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding" Said the 90 pound weakling. Draw weight/poundage is an individual thing dictated by an archers preference for speed, kinetic energy/momentum ability to shoot a heavy arrow or just because they can. Of coarse physical stature and condition do play a factor. And I do not recommend anyone use a bow that is a strain for them to draw, hold or shoot, whether 30 lbs or 100 lbs. Just my 2 cents. Now I am going outside to shoot my 96 lb. Hoyt dangerous game bow and pound my chest. Not really just kidding I sold that bow as I didn't stay in good enough shooting shape to enjoy shooting it, so I dropped down to 82 lbs.


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

Why does anyone care how much weight someone else shoots? Kind of a silly thing to worry about imo.


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## fountain (Jan 10, 2009)

I don't see it a big deal. Muscle memory, pulling correctly with more back than shoulder and being in physical shape is good for them.

When I was in my teens I regularly shot heavy bows. I shot daily though. We would often build bows and swap limbs/cams on the pse bows we shot. When it came out of the press, there was no telling what the weight would be. We had several over 100. Towards the mid/late 90s, pse began to put a plastic deal on the limb pockets that would regulate weight a lot, but when swapping parts , anything was possible. 
I took a frankenbow to college for my archery class that was over 100. I didn't have to worry about anyone shooting it or messing with it. 

I'm not a big guy and sure wasn't way back then. I helped get several guys in my class to shooting bows. They all were a good bit bigger than me and played football. They couldn't get 60# back, or even budge it much. After about a month of shooting, they had built up to it well though. It's not all about size. Muscle memory and shooting regularly will help with heavy weight


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## BigMike1223 (Sep 21, 2013)

Been shooting 80,90 105 and 110 since 92 and haven’t had any problems yet. Shoot a lot every day. No problems yet lol other than can’t find anything over 80 any more. On the other side I have a buddy that is as fit as any one on the planet and shoots 62 63 pounds and has shoulder pains now lol


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

If you can draw the weight without sky drawing and maintain the accuracy then by all means, shoot the higher weight.


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

MNarrow said:


> Hanes is already in pain. He was taking ibuprofen daily.


I spent 23+ years in the military.... I eat ibuprofen like chiclets. Not because of shoulder pain, (I had my shoulder repaired long before I ever shot a bow) but because of years rucking, body armor etc.... (you should hear some of the noises my knees and ankles make when I get up in the morning)

This being said, I don't shoot at 70# anymore. At that high of a DW, I loved the speed but practice just wasn't as fun. Towards the end of my 70# days, I could only shoot 40-50 arrows before my form started breaking down. I went to 60# and felt like I wanted a little more speed... I settled in at 65# and for me, it's the perfect DW... I can shoot 70-80 arrows without needing a break.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

I agree that everyone's different and, much worse, there's no way to really know when that witching hour finally comes and the wear and tear catches up with you. Some people start having permanent degradation really quick, but some don't discover they've had it for a long long time. Some never develop problems at all until the day they die.

For me, it was really quick. I shot a 70lb bow for about a year when I first took up compound in the early 90's before I finally got a permanent injury in the chest on the right side. Today, my bows are custom ordered with 40lb limbs and I shoot them at about 35lbs. That's all my upper body can currently take and I still battle the occasional injury. 

But it'll be a purely individual thing for everybody how long you can actually last before you have to finally slow down. All you can do is just pay attention to pain and other problems, and have the discipline to stop or change your ways at the first signs of trouble....

lee.


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## Blackeagle1 (Aug 19, 2014)

Could be tomorrow, could be never. Everyone's different.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

HalonShooter60X said:


> I spent 23+ years in the military.... I eat ibuprofen like chiclets. Not because of shoulder pain, (I had my shoulder repaired long before I ever shot a bow) but because of years rucking, body armor etc.... (you should hear some of the noises my knees and ankles make when I get up in the morning)
> 
> This being said, I don't shoot at 70# anymore. At that high of a DW, I loved the speed but practice just wasn't as fun. Towards the end of my 70# days, I could only shoot 40-50 arrows before my form started breaking down. I went to 60# and felt like I wanted a little more speed... I settled in at 65# and for me, it's the perfect DW... I can shoot 70-80 arrows without needing a break.


Not trying to attack just be helpful cut out the ibuprofien **** is terrible for you.


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## pasc43 (Dec 12, 2016)

Joe's draw form is terrible.


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

bghunter7311 said:


> Not trying to attack just be helpful cut out the ibuprofien **** is terrible for you.


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## SecretAgnt31 (Aug 29, 2017)

thirdhandman said:


> Too many variables to say that 84lbs. is going to cause shoulder issues. We had an AT'er named Whack & Stack from West Virginia. He was a Behimeth of a man. He drew and shot a custom made 115lb bow easier than I could draw and shoot a 60lb. bow.
> I hunted with Kevin Strothers years ago. He was having back issues so he backed his bow down to 120lbs. Some people are just naturally stronger and or have built up to these heavy draw weights.
> Today's bows are plenty powerful enough to kill any N. American big game animal, with a well placed shot and a sharp broadhead at 50 lbs.



Strothers draw weights are INSANE. The man is a monster.


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## Socialslayer (Mar 21, 2012)

Who is to say that higher poundage archery equipment ultimately causes shoulder issues? Certainly with any exercise over usage can cause injury, but when that point is reached varies quite a bit between individuals. It's not easy to set a hard rule between number of arrows per day and poundage limits. 

When these threads come up I always wonder how long the OP has been shooting a hunting bow. It was not uncommon 25 years ago to shoot an 80 or 90 pound compound bow just to get any arrow speed whatsoever, and that was with cams that had around 50-65% letoff. If you shot high poundage then vs now, you would say 80lbs now is a pleasure to shoot.


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## 0nepin (Sep 16, 2009)

Been shooting over 80lbs since 2007 and I’m in my mid 40’s with no issues .they will be fine


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## Chop1 (Apr 30, 2007)

Well, I don't tell people what they should shoot, but I will give someone advice from experience. My shoulder hurts. My shoulder hurts from pulling heavy bows for alot of years. I was and am in shape. I could pull a 90 lb bow from a sitting position and keep it pointed at the target the whole time. It was easy. I can still pull 90 lbs, but I would be in pain. 
I now wish I hadn't pulled so much weight, I'm 47 and hope to hunt alot longer and it now hurts to shoot 60 lbs after about the 5th shot. It did come from pulling heavy bows. 
All I try to tell people is that just because you can handle it easily, it doesn't mean it not gonna cause you problems further down the rd and sooner than you would like. Pulling the heavy weight was easy, no problem, no strain. I had no idea what was happening. 
So, I can't say it will happen to everyone, but it did for me. Shooting alot of weight if you don't need it might not be the best thing. But, I certainly have no problems with anyone that does.


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## DK67 (Jan 1, 2018)

I shot 78 and 80lbs for along time when I was younger never was a big man but in shape and worked doing physical work my whole life from Drill rigs to coal mines now in corrections I dropped to 70 a long time ago for the reason it was easier to find a bow in that poundage with out ordering it now I shoot 65 because of shoulder issues but it wasn’t the bows it was my life style and work I did was hard on myself , but honestly for deer or bear which is what I have here in WVA no need for all the poundage but like others said it was nice shooting 80 lbs with baseball bat size Eaton xx75 with 125 grain muzzy and blowing shoulder blades out of deer at any angle you got pass thru now less weight and get pass throughs it’s what ever makes ya happy I never concern myself with what others do or like could care less I do me and what I like and give support to others that do the same ...Hunt on Brothers and sisters Gobbler season is coming


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## BWBOW (Feb 21, 2009)

All depends on person. Cam is a freak no way around it. I would think his knees would go before anything. He puts alot more strain on them imo
Rogan has only been shooting for a few years. And he is 50ish? So chances are he never even catches up to average guys shooting 70# since they where 20 years old


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## tge73 (Jan 11, 2009)

The problem’s will come from overuse. It’s just a fact that as you get older tendons and ligaments get weaker. This is exactly what my Ortho Dr told me when I had to have shoulder surgery at 30. I grew up lifting weight, throwing hay all summer and just doing whatever because I was strong and could do it. But if I had known then what I know now I would’ve taken it a little easier on my body. I try not to shoot over 60# anymore just because I get tired of the sore shoulders and elbows from shooting heavy weight, I’d rather shoot lighter weight and just have fun.


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## Jeremy K (Oct 16, 2013)

MNarrow said:


> Hanes is already in pain. He was taking ibuprofen daily.


He just said on the last podcast that he doesn't take it anymore . Dr. Rhonda Patrick also explained that people who take it too much are causing inflammation by doing so.


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## Jeremy K (Oct 16, 2013)

BWBOW said:


> All depends on person. Cam is a freak no way around it. I would think his knees would go before anything. He puts alot more strain on them imo
> Rogan has only been shooting for a few years. And he is 50ish? So chances are he never even catches up to average guys shooting 70# since they where 20 years old


Have you seen his groups at 60 yards ? It's safe to say he has already passed 95 percent of guys who have been shooting since their 20s.


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## Ernst.S.Blofeld (Jan 27, 2018)

I've only just got into bows and bow hunting, I can't even imagine trying to draw an 84# bow.


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## Blackeagle1 (Aug 19, 2014)

Jeremy K said:


> Have you seen his groups at 60 yards ? It's safe to say he has already passed 95 percent of guys who have been shooting since their 20s.


He’s talking about wear and tear on his body. Not shooting skill.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

You guys are right , talked me into it , I’m selling my 80lbers and buy 35lb bows to make everyone else feel better about themselves !!!


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## BWBOW (Feb 21, 2009)

Blackeagle1 said:


> He’s talking about wear and tear on his body. Not shooting skill.


Thank you.

I dont believe I've ever seen him shoot


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

MNarrow said:


> Hanes is already in pain. He was taking ibuprofen daily.


Not anymore


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## Jeremy K (Oct 16, 2013)

BWBOW said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I dont believe I've ever seen him shoot


My apologies , reading comprehension has never been my wheel house. :sad:


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## NYyotekiller (Dec 7, 2011)

John Dudley is a pretty big strong guy and he blew his shoulder out to the point where he needed a complete rebuild on it. I'm not so sure that strength is the only defining factor or not.

I know of two guys locally that have had motocross injuries to their shoulders when younger only to re-injure their shoulders while shooting a bow at lower poundage than 80#'s. Both guys are much larger framed guys than Rogan and Hanes, and are more like Dudleys size FWIW.


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## boonejon (Aug 25, 2015)

Weight is different to everyone. Ive been shooting 70 for years with no problem but Im sure a smaller guy might have issues at that weight


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## Gangster II (May 12, 2009)

I've been a drywall finisher for 33 years. Shooting 80#s don't even come close to wrecking shoulders like finishing.
Shoot whatever #s you feel comfortable and you'll do fine.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

NYyotekiller said:


> John Dudley is a pretty big strong guy and he blew his shoulder out to the point where he needed a complete rebuild on it. .


But that was his left shoulder not the the shoulder he draws with. And he’s back to shooting around 70 for hunting

I’m as big as he is and I’ve hurt myself more scooping snow than shooting my bow.

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## psychobaby111 (Mar 23, 2008)

Never shot 80, but shot 70 in the 90's. Think I started shooting 60 late 90's and still do. I would love to be able to shoot 80, but I just can't do it. Work and shooting has wore me out. I see a 50 in the near future.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

I knocked it down to 70lbs not by choice but due to bow selection ...but I do lots of heavy lifting hahah heavy for me anyway
but I could pull more weight when I shot my bow more then I went to the gym, not sure 80 would be comfortable now unless
I started shooting it more...why does anyone care what weight anyone else shoots, it won't effect your arrow..


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## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

can't answer that, that is going to be unique to every person!


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## Tizzy (Dec 24, 2017)

The body is a magnificent machine! The harder you train it...the harder it becomes. If you train with heavy weights and condition your body like Cam and Rogan...an 80 lb pull will do no more than lifting a milk carton....come on...English Warbows pulled upwards of 120 lbs.with zero letoff ,and those archers we're required to practice by Law.
To put it simply....train your body to do what you want it to...The moment you quit pushing your body...it quits on you!


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## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

psychobaby111 said:


> Never shot 80, but shot 70 in the 90's. Think I started shooting 60 late 90's and still do. I would love to be able to shoot 80, but I just can't do it. Work and shooting has wore me out. I see a 50 in the near future.


come on man, 50 is great, made the move last year.


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## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

bghunter7311 said:


> Not trying to attack just be helpful cut out the ibuprofien **** is terrible for you.


No way dude, the military gives you that stuff for everything, soreness, pain, hernia, infertility, constipation, it don't matter. Take 2 motrin and go home. Its the wonder drug.


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## Straight Arrow (Feb 22, 2003)

I got to wonder about these smaller people that can pull high poundage! Are these all stars natural super humans and/or do they also take PED's!


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Straight Arrow said:


> I got to wonder about these smaller people that can pull high poundage! Are these all stars natural super humans and/or do they also take PED's!


It doesn’t take PEDs to draw an 80lb lol it’s called being an adult male Without a vag


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## Heyer24 (Dec 12, 2012)

I shoot over 80 everyday and I don’t see how it could give me shoulder problems. It’s really smooth and easy to draw don’t see the problem.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

This is me shooting my bow at 29" and 87lbs with a 362 ibo. I've been shooting it for over 2 years now with no issues. I've actually had new threads installed and it now maxes out at 94 lbs. 
I'm 5"9 , 162 lbs and 43 years old by the way.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I think that Kevin designed and shot a 200 lb bow when he set the distance record.

These guys have enough money to pay for shoulder surgery so I don't care how many pounds they shoot.

I will stick with my 47 lbs.


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## GuntherChaconne (Mar 9, 2015)

bghunter7311 said:


> Straight Arrow said:
> 
> 
> > I got to wonder about these smaller people that can pull high poundage! Are these all stars natural super humans and/or do they also take PED's!
> ...


I am a juvenile female with a vag.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

GuntherChaconne said:


> bghunter7311 said:
> 
> 
> > Straight Arrow said:
> ...


Nothing wrong with that I support whatever you identify with. I just like seeing others happy.


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## Ernst.S.Blofeld (Jan 27, 2018)

The smell of testosterone in here is unbearable


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

In my experience, high volume shooters have at least as much or more to worry about. Most of million reps grows some rather large bone spurs and abrades tendons over time.


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## zernzm08 (Feb 1, 2009)

I wonder if 65-75 # limbs were made this issue would still be discussed as frequently?


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## Chop1 (Apr 30, 2007)

Seems like alot of people are missing the reasons behind some of the shoulder issues archery can cause. This has nothing to do with muscle memory, training, or conditioning. You can build all the muscle you want (which is what training does) and it still won't protect the joints or keep arthritis from making your bow painful to shoot later down the road. 
Most of the problems people have with this is not any type of injury. It's just the wear and tear on your shoulder, not muscles. It's just like a person that does roofing for a living. The constant squatting wears knees out. I know alot of people that had bad knees from roofing. It had nothing to do with conditioning, but over use. 
Over use of any part of your body over time can cause serious arthritis that leads to painful inflamation and pain. 
The more weight you pull, the more strain you add to these areas, it can happen even with low poundage, but you can surely speed it along the more weight you pull. It has nothing to do with how big your are, how strong you are or how "in shape" you are. It's friction, and friction increases with poundage. 
When you get your bow back and relax the muscles in your arms for proper form, it puts the pressure on your bone structure, your muscles can no longer help it at that point. This is where the pain comes from when I shoot now.


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## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

I shoot 60 lb. bows, have since the 80s....I could pull back 76 lbs. then comfortabley but didn't see the need to..


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## Macs69 (Jan 2, 2012)

Ernst.S.Blofeld said:


> The smell of testosterone in here is unbearable


I think the preponderance of estrogen is overwhelming. My 4.5 pound bow is too heavy, it shocks my hand, it has a hump in the draw cycle, I can’t pull it back, waaaaaaaa... No disrespect intended to capable females

The fact that you can’t do it doesn’t mean that no one else can. 80# is not that much weight. I think even former president Obama could do a 160# seated row. Well, maybe not...


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## 138104 (May 14, 2009)

I think drawing anything over 54# is dumb.


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

wow
read half the posts
skimmed the rest
and nobody mentioned 
anything about

FORM

Im overwhelmed by the level of genius here


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## Macs69 (Jan 2, 2012)

GWFH said:


> wow
> read half the posts
> skimmed the rest
> and nobody mentioned
> ...


Probably because the discussion wasn't about form. It was about the ability to draw the weight, without damaging your shoulders. Your "form" twist on the topic only serves to dilute the discussion. Poor form will cause damage with lower poundage. 

So, I think to stay on topic, let's assume that FORM is good.


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

Jeremy K said:


> He just said on the last podcast that he doesn't take it anymore . Dr. Rhonda Patrick also explained that people who take it too much are causing inflammation by doing so.


Hence the word "was"

And he didn't quit because he wasn't in pain anymore


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## brendan's dad (Feb 21, 2013)

Poundage is not everything.

My buddy purchased a Cenergy for an Africa hunt with 80 limbs and a IBO 330. I have a 70lbs Darton 3800 with 350 IBO. We both have identical draw lengths. Guess which bow shoots faster and draws easier? Buddy was a little pissed after our day at the range with the chrono.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

MNarrow said:


> Hence the word "was"
> 
> And he didn't quit because he wasn't in pain anymore


He quit because the overuse of ibuprofen was actually causing pain. He was just on Joe’s podcast recently and said he has no pain.


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## leftee (Nov 15, 2005)

Wow,the dreaded TestEgo male disease rears it’s ugly head again.
Consider using form,education and a little brain power-if available.Maybe start by doing a ‘google’ on ‘archery shoulder injuries’.
Assuming some on here can’t read perhaps they could ask guys like John Dudley or Bobby Eyler about shoulder injuries and surgeries.


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

Hidden Danger said:


> This is me shooting my bow at 29" and 87lbs with a 362 ibo. I've been shooting it for over 2 years now with no issues. I've actually had new threads installed and it now maxes out at 94 lbs.
> I'm 5"9 , 162 lbs and 43 years old by the way.


So that's one way to shoot a 29 inch draw when your 5'9". :wink:


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

leftee said:


> Assuming some on here can’t read perhaps they could ask guys like John Dudley or Bobby Eyler about shoulder injuries and surgeries.


Maybe you can ask John why he still shoots heavier weight....

Also ask him why he doesn’t recommend Joe to lower his weight since he sets up all of Joe’s bows.
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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

I can pull up to 90# relatively comfortable and with some bows I prefer 80# due to the holding weight yet still a great valley. 
Take an Elite Impulse for instance. I prefer to run that at 84# but will shoot other bows like the Hoyt Nitrum Turbo at 74#. 
Pin float can vary from bow to bow and holding weight plays a role. My Mathews Triax is at 70.5# but pin float is great and my holding weight is only 11.5#. 
For me personally it’s not about what I can pull, it’s analyzing what gives me the most accurate setup with a given bow. 


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## MAD 6 (Nov 8, 2015)

thirdhandman said:


> Too many variables to say that 84lbs. is going to cause shoulder issues. We had an AT'er named Whack & Stack from West Virginia. He was a Behimeth of a man. He drew and shot a custom made 115lb bow easier than I could draw and shoot a 60lb. bow.
> I hunted with Kevin Strothers years ago. He was having back issues so he backed his bow down to 120lbs. Some people are just naturally stronger and or have built up to these heavy draw weights.
> Today's bows are plenty powerful enough to kill any N. American big game animal, with a well placed shot and a sharp broadhead at 50 lbs.:secret:


Had to Back his limbs down to 120lbs?! Sweet Jesus, I remember years back at Redding they had a 200Lb+ now - the only guy that could draw the weight was Bo Jackson.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

Some people are strong, some are weak. Some people have a hard time drawing 60lbs some don't. I can't believe that's not obvious???


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

173BC said:


> Some people are strong, some are weak. Some people have a hard time drawing 60lbs some don't. I can't believe that's not obvious???


this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Ramrod (Jun 19, 2003)

I’m 53 and now shoot a 60lb bow. More power to who can pull high poundage. Those days are over for me. To be honest, 25 years ago you needed that poundage to rival what today’s bows deliver with much less effort.


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## 45er (Jan 18, 2009)

This issue always pits one side against the other on AT. In the end, I don't care what someone shoots, it's not my body. I agree that there are many factors that weigh in as to whether or not someone will develop shoulder or other joint issues shooting 80+ pound bows. A certain number of people will *never* develop issues and will only go down in weight when their age reduces their muscle strength. However, there is no denying that shooting high poundage greatly increases risks of problems over less draw weight. It's a matter of risk and my position is that it is foolish to take risks without reward, and the only real "reward" in shooting 85# bows would be if I were going to hunt something like Cape buffalo! A 60# bow with the right arrow/broadhead combination will easily dispatch anything I want to hunt! I am way past the "testosterone" stage. Wisdom is much easier to live with!


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## Heyer24 (Dec 12, 2012)

45er said:


> This issue always pits one side against the other on AT. In the end, I don't care what someone shoots, it's not my body. I agree that there are many factors that weigh in as to whether or not someone will develop shoulder or other joint issues shooting 80+ pound bows. A certain number of people will *never* develop issues and will only go down in weight when their age reduces their muscle strength. However, there is no denying that shooting high poundage greatly increases risks of problems over less draw weight. It's a matter of risk and my position is that it is foolish to take risks without reward, and the only real "reward" in shooting 85# bows would be if I were going to hunt something like Cape buffalo! A 60# bow with the right arrow/broadhead combination will easily dispatch anything I want to hunt! I am way past the "testosterone" stage. Wisdom is much easier to live with!



Yeah but if you want to shoot a 500-700 grain arrow and stick an elk at 50+ yards it’s nice to shoot higher poundage imo


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Heyer24 said:


> 45er said:
> 
> 
> > This issue always pits one side against the other on AT. In the end, I don't care what someone shoots, it's not my body. I agree that there are many factors that weigh in as to whether or not someone will develop shoulder or other joint issues shooting 80+ pound bows. A certain number of people will *never* develop issues and will only go down in weight when their age reduces their muscle strength. However, there is no denying that shooting high poundage greatly increases risks of problems over less draw weight. It's a matter of risk and my position is that it is foolish to take risks without reward, and the only real "reward" in shooting 85# bows would be if I were going to hunt something like Cape buffalo! A 60# bow with the right arrow/broadhead combination will easily dispatch anything I want to hunt! I am way past the "testosterone" stage. Wisdom is much easier to live with!
> ...


I agree I honestly can’t tell much difference between 60-70-80 so why not shoot 80plus if the bow you like is offered in it. I will say I don’t shoot 1000s of arrows a month probably average 50-100 a week.


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## skinner2 (Aug 16, 2006)

thirdhandman said:


> Too many variables to say that 84lbs. is going to cause shoulder issues. We had an AT'er named Whack & Stack from West Virginia. He was a Behimeth of a man. He drew and shot a custom made 115lb bow easier than I could draw and shoot a 60lb. bow.
> I hunted with Kevin Strothers years ago. He was having back issues so he backed his bow down to 120lbs. Some people are just naturally stronger and or have built up to these heavy draw weights.
> Today's bows are plenty powerful enough to kill any N. American big game animal, with a well placed shot and a sharp broadhead at 50 lbs.:secret:


Great post and right on in my opinion. Everyone is different.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

deadquiet said:


> So that's one way to shoot a 29 inch draw when your 5'9". :wink:


I fail to see your point.


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## whack&stack (Oct 15, 2007)

Folks will shoot what they shoot.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

deadquiet said:


> So that's one way to shoot a 29 inch draw when your 5'9". :wink:


He shoots that bow very well , I do know that . Just because your physical limitations don’t allow you to shoot high poundage don’t hate on us that do .


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

deadquiet said:


> So that's one way to shoot a 29 inch draw when your 5'9". :wink:


Lol


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## 0zarks2 (Feb 9, 2007)

While I certainly could care less what anyone else shoots, I don't believe it's wise to shoot more poundage than necessary, to each their own though. I've worked out religiously for the past 20 years. Been shooting longer than that. I just recently dropped to 60 lbs...always shot 70 before. Your body only has so many miles in it. I see no reason to wear out it prematurely. I look forward to longer shooting sessions. Don't have to worry about shoulder day anymore either.....never wanted to shoot on shoulder days.


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

bambikiller said:


> He shoots that bow very well , I do know that . Just because your physical limitations don’t allow you to shoot high poundage don’t hate on us that do .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What , is he saying I am too short to shoot 29 inches? 
Let's see if I have this right. 
Body is straight up and down without leaning. ✓
Head is not tilted back. ✓
String is touching my nose.✓
Comfortable and repeatable anchor point.✓
Almost a perfect T shape. ✓
Bow arm is slightly bent and there is no string contact with the wrist at the shot with a sub 6" brace height.✓
Superb accuracy out to 60 yards.✓

Note: this group was from me having to resight my HHA after a string and cable swap @40 yards. Just a little low but the group was tight. Is that an accurate group for 5'9 and 29"?

If this is one way to shoot 29" , I'll take it any day.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

Hidden Danger said:


> What , is he saying I am going too short to shoot 29 inches?
> Let's see if I have this right. Body is straight up and down without leaning. ✓
> Head is not tilted back. ✓
> String is touching my nose.✓
> ...


Threads like These are for people who can’t shoot high poundage to bash the high poundage guys because we do and can .... it’s sad ... happens all the time . 


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

82lbs .... 48 yard shot ... you guys are right I need a 35 lb bow


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

4 blade mechanical (Swat A4) hit the front shoulder quartering to (almost head on) at 42 yards I believe. The broadhead lodge in the rear ham. Deer ran a very short distance after getting up off the ground. Could I have done that at 60lbs? I think not.
Could I have waited for a better shot angle? Perhaps , but the mosquitoes were eating me alive.


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## krieger (Jan 24, 2007)

Shoot what you want and what works, I couldn't care less. I'm just listening to the older guys chuckle...older guys have been both young and old, young guys have only been young. Paste this as a sticky and lets revisit it in 20 years.

Kudos to those who take physical training seriously, but father time has a way of marching on, faster than we can keep up sometimes. Youth is wasted on the young, enjoy it while you have it.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

krieger said:


> Shoot what you want and what works, I couldn't care less. I'm just listening to the older guys chuckle...older guys have been both young and old, young guys have only been young. Paste this as a sticky and lets revisit it in 20 years.
> 
> Kudos to those who take physical training seriously, but father time has a way of marching on, faster than we can keep up sometimes. Youth is wasted on the young, enjoy it while you have it.


I’ve been shooting 80 lbs for almost 20 years now


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## brendan's dad (Feb 21, 2013)

Hidden Danger said:


> What , is he saying I am too short to shoot 29 inches?
> Let's see if I have this right.
> Body is straight up and down without leaning. ✓
> Head is not tilted back. ✓
> ...


From the photo it looks like your right hand is not anchored to anything. But it might just be the angle of the photo and your shooting definitely suggest otherwise. Nice group at 40


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## Heyer24 (Dec 12, 2012)

Yeah that pic makes it look like he is shooting a d-loop about 6” long lol


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

bghunter7311 said:


> I think the point many have made is 80# may not be "heavy" to these guys. Heavy is different for everyone.


roger that!

I don't see why people don't get it, blanket statements don't work. one man's 80 is another man's 40, we all aren't created equal (no, i'm not implying pulling heavier weight makes you better)

my opinion isn't bias either, i'm currently pulling 66# while working through a couple nagging injuries, and will never shoot 80#, but I know others are more physically capable than myself.


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## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

MAD 6 said:


> Had to Back his limbs down to 120lbs?! Sweet Jesus, I remember years back at Redding they had a 200Lb+ now - the only guy that could draw the weight was Bo Jackson.


Grew up around Redding....I went to the Redding shoot in the early 90s when Ragsdale's from PSE won it...They had that Bow there, it went over 200 lbs. some guy tried to break the worlds record at the time, they had it set at 240 lbs. but he failed to do it, quite the spectacle...


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## Motoforcker (Apr 16, 2017)

Check out your next event at Cabelas! Haha. Its a catwalk of men strutting around their choice in camo. Watching the kuiu guys give the kryptek guys stink eye! Worrying about who draws what weight is damn near the same female crap. Lmao, real men on the catwalk....


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

173BC said:


> Some people are strong, some are weak. Some people have a hard time drawing 60lbs some don't. I can't believe that's not obvious???


Ding, ding. And I can't believe anyone cares and/or is really worried about them ruining their shoulders. If someone doesn't think they can handle a certain weight without ruining their shoulder they shouldn't shoot that weight but they shouldn't project their strength limitations onto others who may have higher limitations. This whole topic is silly frankly.


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## Farrierarcher (Feb 18, 2018)

To me its not so much about draw weight as it is the actual mass weight of the bow and how much let off or valley the bow has. My Target bow weighs 6 or so pounds, pulls 60lbs and the holding weight is 19lbs. That bow will get me tired faster than my hunting bow pulling 73lbs, weighing 5lbs, and holding 14.5lbs.


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## 173BC (Mar 10, 2010)

Hidden Danger said:


> What , is he saying I am too short to shoot 29 inches?
> Let's see if I have this right.
> Body is straight up and down without leaning. ✓
> Head is not tilted back. ✓
> ...



I think what he's saying is that with a feminine body it's hard to imagine how a man can shoot a bow.


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

bghunter7311 said:


> Joe Rogan recently stated his new techno hunt system is set up for low poundage bows 70# and below but he is still able to shoot his 84# bow at. He shoots very often how long until we see his shoulders give out. I'v learned on AT over the past few months anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding"


Encouraging a group to weigh in on predicting an injury to someone because they can do something you can’t? You need therapy, not an AT thread. 

There’s a pretty wide spectrum of capability across any singular trait distribution. Cam Hanes is at the far, far...far end of the fitness curve. I couldn’t run a mile right now for example, he could run a hundred. I’m not starting a thread about the guys knees giving out. 

I could, however, tuck 70 lbs behind my ear on a modern compound bow. To the same point, I shoot with guys who now shoot 50 lbs for one reason or another. I don’t say anything to them, they don’t say anything to me. 

To suggest they (Cam, Rogan or anyone) is less evolved is an absurd and transparent little tantrum. If anything, I suppose, at least for the task at hand, one could argue they are more evolved (given their seemingly effortless accomplishment of the task).

OP, start lifting or stop hating. 


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

stillern said:


> bghunter7311 said:
> 
> 
> > Joe Rogan recently stated his new techno hunt system is set up for low poundage bows 70# and below but he is still able to shoot his 84# bow at. He shoots very often how long until we see his shoulders give out. I'v learned on AT over the past few months anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding"
> ...


I think you missed the mark I’m on team high poundage.


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## azscorpion (Feb 12, 2010)

bghunter7311 said:


> Joe Rogan recently stated his new techno hunt system is set up for low poundage bows 70# and below but he is still able to shoot his 84# bow at. He shoots very often how long until we see his shoulders give out. I'v learned on AT over the past few months anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding"


And I have learned over the years that moronic statements like this are ridiculous......


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Hidden Danger said:


> What , is he saying I am too short to shoot 29 inches?
> Let's see if I have this right.
> Body is straight up and down without leaning. ✓
> Head is not tilted back. ✓
> ...


if you were 3" taller, they all would have been in the bullseye:wink:


don't worry about it man, you shoot well, pull your bow easy, it's pretty dang obvious you don't need to change anything. let the haters do their thing


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Predator said:


> Ding, ding. And I can't believe anyone cares and/or is really worried about them ruining their shoulders. If someone doesn't think they can handle a certain weight without ruining their shoulder they shouldn't shoot that weight but they shouldn't project their strength limitations onto others who may have higher limitations. This whole topic is silly frankly.


true dat!


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

roosiebull said:


> if you were 3" taller, they all would have been in the bullseye:wink:
> 
> 
> don't worry about it man, you shoot well, pull your bow easy, it's pretty dang obvious you don't need to change anything. let the haters do their thing


Dang , so all I needed was taller shoes? I took the easy route and just bumped the slide up. Lol


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## eventhorizon (Dec 12, 2012)

stillern said:


> Encouraging a group to weigh in on predicting an injury to someone because they can do something you can’t? You need therapy, not an AT thread.
> 
> There’s a pretty wide spectrum of capability across any singular trait distribution. Cam Hanes is at the far, far...far end of the fitness curve. I couldn’t run a mile right now for example, he could run a hundred. I’m not starting a thread about the guys knees giving out.
> 
> ...


Quite possibly the most well delivered forum spanking I've seen in some time.


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## SCFox (Dec 11, 2005)

You’ve been a member here since Oct. and this is what you’ve learned??

SCFox


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

SCFox said:


> You’ve been a member here since Oct. and this is what you’ve learned??
> 
> SCFox


Reflection of y’all I guess


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## Heyer24 (Dec 12, 2012)

These guys are in the gym lifting weights almost everyday, if anything is going to wear them down or cause injury it’s more likely it would be from lifting, not pulling 80# bow I shoot an 80# bow and havent worked out in years it’s not that hard.


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## idaboy2017 (Nov 24, 2017)

Who cares what they shoot


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## Browndawg (Dec 19, 2017)

NOBODY CARES. WORK HARDER.

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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Browndawg said:


> NOBODY CARES. WORK HARDER.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


I have Cams shirt that says that.


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## PJC15 (Aug 18, 2015)

Pulling heavier weights is no different than lifting weights and increasing your weight numbers as you get stronger. If you shoot and lift a lot then 80lbs is not an issue. I bet Cam and Joe can pull that 84lbs better than most can pull 60 here on AT.


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

bghunter7311 said:


> Joe Rogan recently stated his new techno hunt system is set up for low poundage bows 70# and below but he is still able to shoot his 84# bow at. He shoots very often how long until we see his shoulders give out. I'v learned on AT over the past few months anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding"


Rogan admits that he uses PEDs' (testosterone and HGH, possibly others) as long as he keeps doing that, he shouldn't have many problems other than perhaps joint failure but that would probably be more related to heavy lifting (and perhaps his technique) as it would shooting a bow.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Disco89 said:


> Rogan admits that he uses PEDs' (testosterone and HGH, possibly others) as long as he keeps doing that, he shouldn't have many problems other than perhaps joint failure but that would probably be more related to heavy lifting (and perhaps his technique) as it would shooting a bow.


No he doesn't that is just simply not true he smokes pot uses stem cells and eats healthy.


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## GWFH (Jan 22, 2006)

So form has nothing to do with ability to draw without damaging shoulders?
Doesnt matter if you rip ‘er back or have good skeletal alignment?
Stay on the topic that you want/think is related?

Thanks for proving my point



Macs69 said:


> Probably because the discussion wasn't about form. It was about the ability to draw the weight, without damaging your shoulders. Your "form" twist on the topic only serves to dilute the discussion. Poor form will cause damage with lower poundage.
> 
> So, I think to stay on topic, let's assume that FORM is good.





GWFH said:


> wow
> read half the posts
> skimmed the rest
> and nobody mentioned
> ...


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## j.carson (Dec 7, 2017)

I wish I could shoot 80#. I'll be happy to eventually get to 70, but if I don't I'll just make sure to get closer shot opportunities... or go hungry. LOL


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

bghunter7311 said:


> No he doesn't that is just simply not true he smokes pot uses stem cells and eats healthy.


Really? Cause he says differently. 

https://www.mmafighting.com/2015/10...nor-mcgregor-dana-white-ronda-rousey-mma-news

Many celebrity types and others are using this stuff. It's been popular for use for over a decade now. Other guys are too, Cam for example. He works out very hard, no doubt, but it ain't all him.


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## DeftArrow (May 18, 2012)

The best rule on this is to shoot what you enjoy, as long as it's adequate for the animals you seek, and don't worry about what other guys are doing. 

A reminder: 'heavy' is relative. To your conditioning. To your bone structure, body chemistry, musculature and genetics.


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## tirving (Nov 3, 2013)

We are not machines, we don't wear out, predictably, like machines. Period, there's quite a bit of evidence, that refutes the, "if you use your body, you'll wear it out quicker..." Meme. 
In addition, pain doesn't mean something us damaged. Lots of people experience shoulder pain with repetitive use, but that doesn't equal tissue damage. 
Lastly, in recent studies, over the past 15 years, in high-end athletes and regular folks, as they age, degenerative changes and evidence of past injuries, can exist, with no pain, or dysfunction. 90% of pitchers show signs of previous tissue damage in their shoulder, this doesn't predict disability. 
Will Joe Rogan and Cam Hanes experience pain? We all do, pain is an important experience. It's likely that will experience shoulder pain as their nervous systems will have a greater sensitivity to shoulder functions, determined by what they do a lot of. Will they become disabled? Probably not, the possibility, is no greater in these two folks, than in others who don't pull 80+#. 

Lefty archer in the PNW


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Disco89 said:


> Really? Cause he says differently.
> 
> https://www.mmafighting.com/2015/10...nor-mcgregor-dana-white-ronda-rousey-mma-news
> 
> Many celebrity types and others are using this stuff. It's been popular for use for over a decade now. Other guys are too, Cam for example. He works out very hard, no doubt, but it ain't all him.



I stand corrected then I listen to everyone of his podcasts for probably the last two years and he doesn't discuss using these much anymore if he still does. Thanks for the link / info


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## "Own More Bone" (Oct 18, 2002)

I can already hear Cam crying about haters on Joe's next pod cast....


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## catscratch (Jan 5, 2010)

Shooting a bow is a physical event, it should be treated just like any sport and trained for properly. You don't see a wt lifter maxing out on bench press every single day, or a runner doing full speed intervals every day. If they do, they get injuries. If you are pulling a bow that is relatively difficult and doing it a lot, you are probably going to have shoulder problems. If you are shooting well within your strength then more reps are possible without injury. Trying to shoot a high poundage bow that is close to your "max" a bunch day after day without recovery is just asking for problems.


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## earnst (Oct 9, 2009)

*goldentip*



bghunter7311 said:


> Joe Rogan recently stated his new techno hunt system is set up for low poundage bows 70# and below but he is still able to shoot his 84# bow at. He shoots very often how long until we see his shoulders give out. I'v learned on AT over the past few months anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding"


Rhinos, hippos, and elephants all require heavy arrows with razor sharp tips and 84# bows. I had an 83#er made by Strunk and it was faster maybe but exploded after less than a hundred shots. I've blown up a lot of bows and feel very fortunate to still have both my eyes. I've noticed that about 70# is the limit for traditional recurves. There's an 80#er now on eBay. It's a bear Bear but I 'd bet my 70# DH hunter is faster. I'm 60 and learned archery from old schooler's and my Fred Bear bible which stated you should shoot the heaviest bow you could handle. Today I'm sure that any recurve over 35 lbs. will take a whitetail and whatever you shoot needs to be what you're most accurate with. I like a flat shooter and my choice is a 60lb thunderbird or a 53# original grizzly 66"er. My accuracy is pie plate at 35 yards and I can't get any better than that. But as a slightly built man I can tell you that if you're careful with your joints stronger bows are okay but if you get macho you can really get hurt. Why?


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

I am 20 years soon to be 21. I work out on a daily bases. Lift had and long. I previously owned 80# bows and here is what I have to say 


There is no need for an 80# w/ ibo’s higher then 340 fps. So speed 340 FPS and faster I don’t see a need for 80#.

Bows like the HTR or HTX I wish Mathews would have made in 80# because it was so smooth and easy to draw. 

My Xpedite shooting a 600 grain arrow w/ a two blade broadhead has no issues going through any game animal I hunt in Georgia. 

But these are just my opinions. What Joe and Cam do is on them. I respect them as an archer and a fellow brother in the hunting world. I wouldn’t shoot them down for hunting 80# as it is THEIR choice and freedom to do so. 


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## tirving (Nov 3, 2013)

catscratch said:


> Shooting a bow is a physical event, it should be treated just like any sport and trained for properly. You don't see a wt lifter maxing out on bench press every single day, or a runner doing full speed intervals every day. If they do, they get injuries. If you are pulling a bow that is relatively difficult and doing it a lot, you are probably going to have shoulder problems. If you are shooting well within your strength then more reps are possible without injury. Trying to shoot a high poundage bow that is close to your "max" a bunch day after day without recovery is just asking for problems.


All true, except, if you lift a weight that's close to your max, every day, you will probably adapt, by getting stronger, as long as your body is healthy enough to do so. The whole process will be self-limiting, you'll only be able to do as many reps as you can do.... With good form. 

Lefty archer in the PNW


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## 3-ArrowZ (Jul 11, 2007)

Bad form will ruin a shoulder, what leads to bad form?????? Too much weight.


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## 3-ArrowZ (Jul 11, 2007)

Form is everything, if you hold good form with a lot of weight then go for it. If the heavy weight is causing poor form....drop the weight.


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## ManVsDeer (Sep 20, 2015)

ANYONE that thinks you need to shoot 80lbs (Unless you're shooting an elephant or a dinosaur), is nuts.. I've shot plenty of animals @57-60lbs and if you double lung them, they're dropping. I'm a HUGE Rogan fan, but I think Dudley has him thinking this is normal..


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## HoosierPuncher (Apr 27, 2017)

There’s people that shouldn’t shoot 70 or even 60# bows. And there’s people that can shoot 80+. Whether this causes long term issues well I’d say that depends on fitness, health, diet, genetics etc. the people in here have more to worry about than draw weight, myself included. 

I think that heavy bows are more than an option, I think it’s an obligation to the animal to pull the most your comfortable with. A 22 will get the job done if placed correctly, but there’s no forgiveness for innacuracy. I’d prefer a 300 win mag. I shoot 80# limbs ( because of the holding weight and lower let off I shoot it better),and I have confidence that even if my shot placement sucked for whatever reason, my 500 grain arrow will be more effective than a lighter arrow with less KE. That translates to efficiency and less suffering on the animals side. People always ask these questions, but never consider what’s downrange of that bow. I’ve wounded one animal, I’ve thought about it relentlessly since it happened. I’ll do anything in my power to prevent that from happening again.


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## Carlinovic (Feb 12, 2018)

I personally shoot a 83# bow and am going to order my new hoyt redwrx bow in 80# as well. Hunting out west it is my personal preference to shoot high poundage and heavy arrows. Hunting for elk and moose I want as much kinetic energy as possible. I to weight train everyday and am in very good shape. Pulling 80 pounds is no issue for me. I’m 32 years old and have been shooting 80+ pounds for the past 11 years. I have no issues with my shoulders at all. But yet again I train every day and am a very large dude. Lol. And for smaller framed men that maybe strong and can get 80lbs back I could see it causing problems for them. Shoot what your most comfortable with in turn u will be very accurate and deadly. This is a reply to the first post I didn’t read any of the rest of them. Sorry if it is way off topic now.


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## NHBuckhunter (Mar 24, 2009)

ManVsDeer said:


> ANYONE that thinks you need to shoot 80lbs (Unless you're shooting an elephant or a dinosaur), is nuts.. I've shot plenty of animals @57-60lbs and if you double lung them, they're dropping. I'm a HUGE Rogan fan, but I think Dudley has him thinking this is normal..


Plenty of people have shot animals with 35-40# bows, if you double lung them, theyre dropping. Why do you need to shoot 57-60 instead of 35-40#s?


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

AXE6Hunter said:


> I am 20 years soon to be 21. I work out on a daily bases. Lift had and long. I previously owned 80# bows and here is what I have to say
> 
> 
> There is no need for an 80# w/ ibo’s higher then 340 fps. So speed 340 FPS and faster I don’t see a need for 80#.
> ...


Pretty much nailed it, well said.


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

bghunter7311 said:


> I stand corrected then I listen to everyone of his podcasts for probably the last two years and he doesn't discuss using these much anymore if he still does. Thanks for the link / info


Actually there are a few interviews with him from a year ago (2017) and he still admits to using them. He hasn't and won't stop. The reality is that like anyone using PED's, they won't stop until something bad happens, and even then they might keep going. It's no different than any other type of drug use that causes people to feel different/better than they normally would/could.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Disco89 said:


> Actually there are a few interviews with him from a year ago (2017) and he still admits to using them. He hasn't and won't stop. The reality is that like anyone using PED's, they won't stop until something bad happens, and even then they might keep going. It's no different than any other type of drug use that causes people to feel different/better than they normally would/could.


I don't dispute he uses them I do dispute they are bad for him. I'm not saying good or bad but the science isn't conclusive that when done properly at the correct levels is harmful. For arguments sake lets say a normal level of testosterone is 100 and you are 50 moving that level to back 100 very little evidence to suggest this is harmful the guy who moves his level to 700 for a physical advantage is very likely to run into issues. Similar to saying the guy who has one drink 3x per week is the same as the alcoholic.


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

bghunter7311 said:


> I don't dispute he uses them I do dispute they are bad for him. I'm not saying good or bad but the science isn't conclusive that when done properly at the correct levels is harmful. For arguments sake lets say a normal level of testosterone is 100 and you are 50 moving that level to back 100 very little evidence to suggest this is harmful the guy who moves his level to 700 for a physical advantage is very likely to run into issues. Similar to saying the guy who has one drink 3x per week is the same as the alcoholic.


We know adverse effects of testosterone, and HGH is quite honestly too newly used to find out long-term effects. Most certainly more studies need to be done, but there are many people that are also taking higher than recommended dosage and/or adding other things, or taking them illegally rather than through an monitored system. But I digress, that isn't the point. The point is that Rogan is using legal and/or illegal products that help his body perform in a manner that it simply could not without it. He couldn't train the way he does without it. It's cheating, he admits it. Whether it's good for him or not isn't really the question.


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## Yukisaru (Jan 4, 2016)

I'm a big fan of Cam's Lift, Run and Shoot regiment, but not all of us can put in the time or have the physicality of a Rogen or Hanes. This is especially true of someone like me who is quickly slipping pass middle age, work gets in the way, and my workouts aren't about gaining mass or strength anymore, but maintaining what I have and building up the smaller support muscles to prevent injuries.

My background is in Olympic recurve and traditional bows, I've found that when you apply good recurve transfer techniques like those in NTS to compound shooting you can save your shoulders and rotators a lot of stress and damage. This is how an Olympic recurve shooter (like Mauro Nespoli) can pull and hold a 70# recurve and accurately shoot 90+ arrows, or a Korean horsebow archer can repetitively draw and hold 80# to 100#? A lot of it has to do with good joint alignment, transferring that load to the back, smaller muscles like the rhomboids, lats and off the shoulders. This also helps in aligning your trigger hand and elbow during anchor which translate into a cleaner release. John Dudley once went on about the benefits of learning how to shoot an Olympic bow for compound shooters precisely for these reasons.

The other factor is having the right bow for you. One of guys I use to shoot with was well into his late 70's, he shot 60# longbows and 70#+ on his compound. The key for him shooting high poundages on compound was good transference and a high let off. If you're constantly fighting a bow that wants to take off on you, it adds to the stress on your shoulders and rotators.


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## PJC15 (Aug 18, 2015)

One thing that sort of gets forgotten about is there is a big difference in the type of bow that is being shot at 80lbs. Cam and Joe both shoot more forgiving bows at 80 lbs which in my opinion isn't much different than shooting a turbo at 70lbs. I shot a defiant at 80 lbs and thought it was easier to pull than a turbo at 70. This thread wouldn't even exist if they were shooting turbos at 70.


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## PNW Slayer (Nov 4, 2017)

I grab my bow daily and hold bow out and rotate back wards making the back of my shoulder stronger and it's all about keeping your shooting muscles up. And their is no need for 80+ pounds my girlfriend shoots 52 pounds and blew through an elk at 40 yards so it's all about doing the workouts that keep you in shape, my favorite workout is just shooting the bow  I've had 2 left shoulder surgeries so I feel ya


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## rkwilson (May 24, 2009)

I shoot 80# every day. I don’t lift weights anymore. I shoot 80# for several preferred reasons but KE is the main one. I’m a 28” draw and having the extra weight helps with KE/Momentum and allows me to shoot 500+ grain arrows and big expandables. I’ve shot every combo/setup on the planet and the heavier setup just works better for me. As far as shoulder issues, I have none. Maybe there needs to be a thread on beer guts and knee scopes.


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## GabeD88 (Dec 13, 2016)

Cams been shooting 80# since he was about 25 i believe he said. He’s over 50 now. I’m pretty sure his shoulder isn’t gonna break down.


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## MikeK (Dec 30, 2003)

Too much emphasis on draw weight and not enough on repetition, which is where the devil hides. 

Every individual has individual limits on how much draw weight he can pull *how many times* before the repetitive strain begins to wear on his shoulder and elbow joints. Because Joe can pull 80# 30 - 50 times per session with no consequences (over time) doesn't mean Jim can do the same. The problem is these individual limitations don't reveal their consequences until the damage appears.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Disco89 said:


> We know adverse effects of testosterone, and HGH is quite honestly too newly used to find out long-term effects. Most certainly more studies need to be done, but there are many people that are also taking higher than recommended dosage and/or adding other things, or taking them illegally rather than through an monitored system. But I digress, that isn't the point. The point is that Rogan is using legal and/or illegal products that help his body perform in a manner that it simply could not without it. He couldn't train the way he does without it. It's cheating, he admits it. Whether it's good for him or not isn't really the question.


Cheating What? he doesn't compete in anything Cheating other people by being healthy?


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

GabeD88 said:


> Cams been shooting 80# since he was about 25 i believe he said. He’s over 50 now. I’m pretty sure his shoulder isn’t gonna break down.


Generally speaking, not as long as he keeps doing things in a healthy way, and keeps using, you are correct. PED's are designed to help people not only perform better, but perform longer. Ie fewer injuries and faster recovery if there is an injury. Muscle tissue rebuilds at a much faster rate, thus you are able to work out harder, more often without breaking down. 
Rogan admits that he cheats as does Cam. Not many do. 
Some of what these guys use are legal, but not if you are an athlete in the NCAA, NFL, MMA etc.


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## VanBalls (Apr 10, 2014)

Not to turn this into a PED thread, but Joe has talked openly about using TRT and HGH on his podcast, and while he doesn't seem to ever mention it now, Cam wrote a blog post back in 2011 detailing his testosterone and anabolic stack he takes: http://www.cameronhanes.com/2011/07/wanna-pile-on-25-lbs-of-muscle-for-the-mountains/


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## smong2000 (Nov 7, 2005)

krieger said:


> Shoot what you want and what works, I couldn't care less. I'm just listening to the older guys chuckle...older guys have been both young and old, young guys have only been young. Paste this as a sticky and lets revisit it in 20 years.
> 
> Kudos to those who take physical training seriously, but father time has a way of marching on, faster than we can keep up sometimes. Youth is wasted on the young, enjoy it while you have it.


Great quote, when I was younger, I was so darn smart that I didn't listen to any body's advice and made my own decisions. Now that I am an old guy and not as smart, I listen to everyone's advice and make my own decisions. 

I was a hard core competitive endurance athlete myself for most of my life. My thoughts for anyone getting into it is to remember that your body has to last a lifetime. Repairing tendons and replacing joints isn't too much fun. Moderation isn't so bad in comparison.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Disco89 said:


> GabeD88 said:
> 
> 
> > Cams been shooting 80# since he was about 25 i believe he said. He’s over 50 now. I’m pretty sure his shoulder isn’t gonna break down.
> ...


Again cheats what? I’m not understanding the reference to them cheating.


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## MAD 6 (Nov 8, 2015)

OntarioArrow said:


> Bunch of weak *****s. If your strong you can pull heavy. you ******* are envious


Wow! Tell us how you really feel! Don't hold back


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

MAD 6 said:


> OntarioArrow said:
> 
> 
> > Bunch of weak *****s. If your strong you can pull heavy. you ******* are envious
> ...


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## Hurckles (Nov 19, 2014)

The only problem I see is someone worrying too much about what others do and slinging mud...


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

bghunter7311 said:


> Again cheats what? I’m not understanding the reference to them cheating.


Cheating, as in using PED's to achieve results that they could not do at their age. The OP was about the weight they are pulling and how long before their body broke down. The PED's they use allow them to do what they could not do, and for longer, than without using them (be it drawing that bow weight or other physical/mental activities and advantages). 

For those of you who don't understand what these hormones can do, this is an excellent read. Warning...it might make you too curious. 
https://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Disco89 said:


> Cheating, as in using PED's to achieve results that they could not do at their age. The OP was about the weight they are pulling and how long before their body broke down. The PED's they use allow them to do what they could not do, and for longer, than without using them (be it drawing that bow weight or other physical/mental activities and advantages).
> 
> For those of you who don't understand what these hormones can do, this is an excellent read. Warning...it might make you too curious.
> https://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test


That is not really comparing apples to apples goes back to the alcoholic vs the 2-3 drinks per week average american anything in excess can cause problems. I would argue HGH and TRT can be very beneficial for some.


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

Hurckles said:


> The only problem I see is someone worrying too much about what others do and slinging mud...


Great first post! Who cares if someone you don't know wants to tear their shoulder apart or if someone has a vag because they don't shoot 70+ # bows. 

Can't we all just get along? Lol


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

bghunter7311 said:


> That is not really comparing apples to apples goes back to the alcoholic vs the 2-3 drinks per week average american anything in excess can cause problems. I would argue HGH and TRT can be very beneficial for some.


Of course it is beneficial. It helps them perform better than they could without it. That's the point. That's why they use. 
Just read the article.


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## JRO1151 (Jan 6, 2013)

I think its really a FPS conversation. What does draw # matter if the arrow is going the same speed. If feel the need to shoot a 400gr arrow 300FPS, at a 31" draw you may get there at 65#, at 26" draw maybe it does take 80+ pounds... for me a shooting a 360-370gr arrow at 300fps, requires a faster 72# bow at 29.5". If I could do it at 65# id take it. Last I recall CH has a fairly short draw length so shooting 80# may be necessary for the same speed as a longer draw at much less weight. Also, they shoot slow Hoyts, you've got to add 10# in draw to keep pace with the new PSE! Ha ha ha


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## rkwilson (May 24, 2009)

Now don't you start throwing common sense out there. You'll start confusing some of these whisker biscuits. 



JRO1151 said:


> I think its really a FPS conversation. What does draw # matter if the arrow is going the same speed. If feel the need to shoot a 400gr arrow 300FPS, at a 31" draw you may get there at 65#, at 26" draw maybe it does take 80+ pounds... for me a shooting a 360-370gr arrow at 300fps, requires a faster 72# bow at 29.5". If I could do it at 65# id take it. Last I recall CH has a fairly short draw length so shooting 80# may be necessary for the same speed as a longer draw at much less weight. Also, they shoot slow Hoyts, you've got to add 10# in draw to keep pace with the new PSE! Ha ha ha


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## Disco89 (Oct 17, 2017)

JRO1151 said:


> I think its really a FPS conversation. What does draw # matter if the arrow is going the same speed. If feel the need to shoot a 400gr arrow 300FPS, at a 31" draw you may get there at 65#, at 26" draw maybe it does take 80+ pounds... for me a shooting a 360-370gr arrow at 300fps, requires a faster 72# bow at 29.5". If I could do it at 65# id take it. Last I recall CH has a fairly short draw length so shooting 80# may be necessary for the same speed as a longer draw at much less weight. Also, they shoot slow Hoyts, you've got to add 10# in draw to keep pace with the new PSE! Ha ha ha


Rogan is 5'8". He probably draws about 26". 

Hanes is 5'9". 27-28 I'm guessing.


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## USMC TBone (Jul 25, 2014)

There's a guy in our club that used to shoot 110 lb and 125 lb, LONGBOWS!!!. Not compounds. I don't think I've ever seen him shoot a compound. He is now in his early 60' and gas dialed it back to about an 85 or 90 lb longbow. He pulls it back easier than I can pull back my 55 lb recurve, or 70 lb compound. 

At one of our shoots we had a contest to see who could pull back one of his "old" longbows the furthest. When he demonstrated it, you could see him strain a little bit, but he still managed decent form and a full draw. I think only one other person got it back to full draw and that guy looked like he was going to explode and shaking like crazy, LOL. 

If you practice it regularly and your body isn't complaining you'll be fine. Just keep up that practice or it will get harder.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


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## MAD 6 (Nov 8, 2015)

Disco89 said:


> Rogan is 5'8". He probably draws about 26".
> 
> Hanes is 5'9". 27-28 I'm guessing.


I don't think Hanes is 5'9 even wearing highheeled sneakers, I think he pulls 26" only because he anchors behind his neck with the thumb


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## Forrest Halley (Jul 24, 2011)

Such a silly question. Pity that it devolved into a lesson than cordial discussion. Neither guy needs to be on any kind of performance enhancement to make it work. 84# is not a difficult feat. I hope no one suffers shoulder damage from the crazy draw force curves at that level. My experience is with 100# traditional bows and I always found 80# to be a nice sweet spot for hunting. Given cold weather it can be a real challenge to stay warmed up for certain heavier draw weights. 100# is uncomfortable after a four hour sit. I preferred to stalk as opposed to sitting with the big bows. I stopped shooting heavy due to resuming rowing and not caring for a disparity of strength in my arms. I did it for two years regularly and found no injury. I'd be hard pressed to believe in longer draws above 80# due to the compression of the body. This is especially apparent at 100#. I can easily draw 30" for lighter weights, but 28" was my accuracy sweet spot with 29" being possible when I was really warmed up and trained. I most enjoyed development of arrows in that weight class. It was difficult to find components. Anyhow enjoy yourselves and I'm going to go out and see what kind of skill I have left over.


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## Todd_LeMaire (Jan 13, 2018)

Hanes does a 160yd shot video where he addresses his desire to draw more. The guy is a beast! He runs 100 mile races!!! Think that will affect his knees?

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## wapitidon (Mar 24, 2009)

worry about your own bad habits and leave others to them! If you can hit the 12 ring on a target every time at 100 yrds with a 60# great challenge yourself to something else but why look over the fence at your neighbor and wonder, be happy with you. and if your unhappy with yourself work on it but don't pull others down "just because". Different stroke for different folks. dont tread on them or you may be next to get run over. my two cents


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## Drkoster (Sep 10, 2016)

Wow, I'm not sure what to say here. I feel a little pre-judged. I'm no "un-evolved chest thumper" and I love shooting TechnoHUNT with my 81# Monster Wake. People get a kick out of seeing it clock 320 fps on the game. It's really addictive and my wife and I shoot it quite a bit. The last time we went it was her idea.

That being said, am I going to hurt my shoulder? Nope, because I train for it using good form and technique. If I can't get to the range (which unfortunately happens more often than not), I'm doing Cable Rear Delt Fly using my PowerDraw training aid or throwing something else in the mix to keep it interesting. I'm hitting those back and shoulder muscles, working both sides of course, staying even, and preventing injury.

Why do I shoot heavy poundage? There are a few reasons:

-The ballistics are a blast.
-Paraphrasing Joe Rogan, "You can shoot faster, shoot farther, and kill bigger stuff."
-It's an athletic endeavor. As an archery athlete/huntlete I keep asking myself, "How good is good enough?"

So with most of use shooting heavy poundage there's no chest thumping or posturing. I'm sure Joe Rogan gets a little cocky sometimes, but that's part of his shtick. What we're mystified by is people knocking that fact that we shoot high draw weight bows. I mean the guy running a 12 minute mile doesn't knock the guy running a 7 minute mile. Why is that different here?

Regardless of how heavy anyone does or doesn't shoot, I'm a big proponent of training. That way you have all the confidence in the world next time at the range, a tournament, or a tree stand. And if someone wants to see how far they can push themselves, that's great. Let's connect.

Just a little about me and my rig:

5'9" (I'm not a monster of a man by any means)
Bow: Mathews McPherson Monster Wake
Draw Weight: 81#
LE: 75%
DL: 29

I have no problem pumping 100 arrows through it in less than an hour, but like I said, I train for it.


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## tiberiuswade (Feb 12, 2015)

I shoot Matthew bow 70# with ease... and I'm not a gaint, just bike, hike and practice, practice, practice to maintain shooting form. I'm from Texas and hunt elk, deer, but boar and turkey. What it boils down to.... When people put down those who are able to draw and shoot their bows regularly....they practice daily or every other day
So get your sorry butt out there and practice and you may be able to do the same
My pov

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

I don't think Joe or Cam care to know my opinion on it.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

This thread has been ridiculous it was started with a sarcastic undertone I’m amazed at how many people actually debate it. This is similar to asking if they will blow their elbow out from 25ln DB curls. The answer is no it’s light ****. Bunch of low T on the forum.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

MNarrow said:


> Hanes is already in pain. He was taking ibuprofen daily.


From what I Understand he was taking Ibuprofen for inflammation caused by running so much. And he admits that he does not ever stretch at all. He is now not taking Ibuprofen at all since Joe informed him that it is truly awful for you.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

Im not telling you what to do...but STOP taking Ibuprofen... That stuff is truly awful for the human body. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions but STOP- Cam is not using anymore. He is now taking Kratom- Look into this. In small amounts it sure sounds a lot better than Ibuprofen. Also, start eating Turmeric and you will notice a ton of inflammation gone... 
Again, telling you what to do, but NOT really, but totally I am... 



HalonShooter60X said:


> I spent 23+ years in the military.... I eat ibuprofen like chiclets. Not because of shoulder pain, (I had my shoulder repaired long before I ever shot a bow) but because of years rucking, body armor etc.... (you should hear some of the noises my knees and ankles make when I get up in the morning)
> 
> This being said, I don't shoot at 70# anymore. At that high of a DW, I loved the speed but practice just wasn't as fun. Towards the end of my 70# days, I could only shoot 40-50 arrows before my form started breaking down. I went to 60# and felt like I wanted a little more speed... I settled in at 65# and for me, it's the perfect DW... I can shoot 70-80 arrows without needing a break.


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## Osage (Jan 19, 2003)

Tell Tom Crow, he isn't an MMA guy, but he used to shoot 80 pound speed bows in the seniors division, probably still does. He would take the harshest Matthews and the fattests alloys and regularly pound the competition and elk.

I'm nothing compared to those guys, but I shot 80# compounds, back when the cams first came out. Around 1980. And my pal he shot 100 pound Quadraflex and won the Provincials in Ontario. Compounds do put a beating on you, but still, the holding is only 16 pounds. My 11 year old daughter can handle that. Back when I was shooting 80 the let off was only 30%. I'm closing on 60 now, and I still shoot 65 trad gear, which has been my hunting gear all along. Except now I am gaping which means basically a sight type draw and hold cycle, compared to when I used to effectively snap shoot 75 pound stickbows.

I did go though a shoulder problem phase due to goofing around with a really heavy bow at one time.

My opinion is as you get older, stuff will just stop working for no reason. You wake up one morning and your shoulders don't work. Must be the bow, you say. Uh, no. My dad was as much a desk guy as you can be. Stuff like that happened to him too. He got some arthritis in his shoulders, that he thankfully got over in a year or so, but if he was an archer he would have probably thought it was the bow.

My baby finger just up and stopped working 2 years ago. I don't know what I did with it. Unfortunately that is getting old. It isn't always the bow. In fact for that mater, my main sport as a kid was rock climbing. So I didn't do the competitive sports. I was stunned how many guys who came up through hockey or football by the time they hit university had major problems with their shoulders. Guys just tend to wear stuff out generally. I think the worst thing for me has been the keyboard and the mouse. But maybe that is my old guy deal. The hands were going to go anyway.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

bghunter7311 said:


> It doesn’t take PEDs to draw an 80lb lol it’s called being an adult male Without a vag


hahahahahaha- So manly, but I gotta admit this comment had me laughing pretty hard


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

Im just curious here... But how many of you fellas/ladies that have or have had shoulder issues from Archery were doing these things:
-Warming up before shooting- I mean really warming up the shoulder joint 
-Stretching and doing mobility work on the shoulder joint- bar pass throughs, body weight hanging, and actively trying to gain more flexibility in the joint
-Doing muscle balance training- rather right or left handed drawing a bow puts a lot more strain on one side of the body than the other. High rep shooting will develop a true imbalance in your shoulders, and back muscles as well as core
-Lastly- how many have actively kept a low sugar diet that is high in anti-inflammatory foods? 

I am an American, and I know how we eat (Poorly for the most part)...I know how inactive we are especially in the winter in most of the U.S. (we are the fattest nation in the world) The question is could we actually engage in preventative medicine and shoot pain free into advanced age? I think we can- Im 47, and Im doing all I can to be shooting right up to deaths door. 
But, like others have stated, ya never know when something gives out and injury happens.


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## Osage (Jan 19, 2003)

The danger of excessive bow weight is that most people who have not mastered the sport are overbowed. If Rogan draws badly, he probably is overbowed. When I went to the PSE shooter school, they covered a lot of topics, but the whole point of the school was to eventually present you with incontrovertible evidence that you are overbowed. They had a really sneaky process on this. It's like a heart attack, a symptom is to deny you are having a hear attack. Well in archery almost everyon thinks they aren't overbowed, while most people are.

But the other side is many popular set-up, moreso with sticks, do not have the power to take game from any angle of shot, or to deal with shoulder blades. And throw in larger game an the problem gets much worse. We can kill almost anything on earth with a 60 lbs compound, but only if the arrow gets lucky.


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## Osage (Jan 19, 2003)

sambone said:


> The question is could we actually engage in preventative medicine and shoot pain free into advanced age? I think we can- Im 47, and Im doing all I can to be shooting right up to deaths door.
> But, like others have stated, ya never know when something gives out and injury happens.


It doesn't begin to get interesting till you are 50. That is when the bad stuff happens. If you haven't already your hair goes grey; you need glasses; you may experience sexual dysfunction from what they tell me; other things start to go stiff.

What I noticed about people about 35-50, that is wacky exercise and diet time when they think drinking apple cider vinegar, juicing, and yoga will save them. Then reality settles in, and they go back to normal. Which isn't to say that you can't affect outcomes. Worth a try. Normal human response is to blame the victim, because we wouldn't do whatever we think they have done, so we are safe. Along the way a fair number of people blow out their knees in the pursuit of youth.

At least you are giving yourself the best chance you can.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

They will never have shoulder issues due to that. I shot 80+ pounds for years and have had no ill effects and those dudes are in way better shape than I am.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

bghunter7311 said:


> Joe Rogan recently stated his new techno hunt system is set up for low poundage bows 70# and below but he is still able to shoot his 84# bow at. He shoots very often how long until we see his shoulders give out. I'v learned on AT over the past few months anything over 60# is dumb and not necessary and just "stupid un evolved chest pounding"


You have learned to over generalize and stir the pot. AT is a great place for the attention you seem to crave.


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

Post #176 on this topic...why?


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

Post #176 on this topic...why?

Because you clearly were not satisfied with 175


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## StuartEL (Sep 10, 2017)

stillern said:


> Post #176 on this topic...why?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right?!?


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## Rick63 (May 21, 2017)

I shoot my 70# bear all of the time and have been pumping iron now for 50 years this year and no problems from the bow on my shoulders and I am 64 !!


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## ecfrost (Jul 13, 2016)

They will be fine, that’s like saying lifting weights will give you injuries. If you shoot/lift something heavy, as long as you do it properly it won’t injure you. 

I think people are quick to hate and say it’s useless because they can’t do it or wear out faster at heavier poundage. I lift 5 days a week, and shoot 70lbs 3 times a week. I Draw my bow easy multiple times in a row and have never once been sore, let alone injured my self doing it. 

If you can do it with out compromising, then why not.


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

I think a blanket statement that anything over 60#'s is stupid, is stupid. I have shot 70#'s since I was a teenager. Thats been a long time now. Certainly anyone using poor form, drawing too long of a draw length will all cause problems after a white, but 70 pulls very easy for me and with correct form shouldn't cause any problems. I know Joe has had shoulder issues in the past from martial arts, but I also know he performs certain exercises specifically for the health and well being of his shoulders and shoulder joints. I think exercise in any amount is good for a human and especially so for anyone getting up there in age. Lifting weights and other exercises can be very bad for you if they are done correctly with correct form. I can see how a guy that has reached a certain age, doesn't exercise and then goes out and shoots a bow with poor form at any poundage can develop problems.


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## JRO1151 (Jan 6, 2013)

Ive been shooting a specially made PSE full throttle 140 pound draw since I was 5 years old. I haven't had any shoulder issues but I also bench press 900 pounds before my alarm clock goes off at 2:00am just prior to my daily 80 mile uphill both ways mountain run.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

JRO1151 said:


> Ive been shooting a specially made PSE full throttle 140 pound draw since I was 5 years old. I haven't had any shoulder issues but I also bench press 900 pounds before my alarm clock goes off at 2:00am just prior to my daily 80 mile uphill both ways mountain run.


Nice man #keep hammering. Those throttles cams are so smooth 140 probably feels like 138


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## automan26 (Oct 21, 2002)

Lifting weights to get strong enough to draw a monster bow does allow you to draw the bow, but it puts a lot of wear on your joints. One may be strong enough to draw monster weights, but the joints still take a beating no matter how young and in strong a guy may be.

Those guys can count on two inevitable things happening as they grow older...!st they will eventually need to drop those weights to save their shoulders. 2nd when they are in their 60s and still shooting, they are going to cuss themselves for shooting such heavy poundage when they were younger because at 60 the damage starts appearing.

Automan


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

automan26 said:


> Lifting weights to get strong enough to draw a monster bow does allow you to draw the bow, but it puts a lot of wear on your joints. One may be strong enough to draw monster weights, but the joints still take a beating no matter how young and in strong a guy may be.
> 
> Those guys can count on two inevitable things happening as they grow older...!st they will eventually need to drop those weights to save their shoulders. 2nd when they are in their 60s and still shooting, they are going to cuss themselves for shooting such heavy poundage when they were younger because at 60 the damage starts appearing.
> 
> Automan


80lbs is very different from lifting “monster weight”


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## DeepSouthDad (Jan 5, 2016)

I could probably pull 82# back no problem, letting it down would rip my arm off. I have had several non archery related shoulder injuries and shoot 70lbs but I always dread having to let it down my shoulder doesn’t want to work in that direction.


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## DanielOB (Mar 28, 2017)

So 80-90 lb draw is necessary, and you shoot from 40-50 yd a Bear (you probably means a Brown Alaska or Yukon Bear). If you are so strong why you use a bow. Just get to the Bear and hit it in the forehead, and it is your. Try it...
Obviously you never hunted that Bears, just because if you ever did that way as you said you will be dead a long ago.
And for a Moose you need the same, just if you want two Moose with one shot.
What is your accuracy at 80 lb and 50 yd? Do not need to answer.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

DanielOB said:


> So 80-90 lb draw is necessary, and you shoot from 40-50 yd a Bear (you probably means a Brown Alaska or Yukon Bear). If you are so strong why you use a bow. Just get to the Bear and hit it in the forehead, and it is your. Try it...
> Obviously you never hunted that Bears, just because if you ever did that way as you said you will be dead a long ago.
> And for a Moose you need the same, just if you want two Moose with one shot.
> What is your accuracy at 80 lb and 50 yd? Do not need to answer.


LOL what. English wasn't your best subject was it?


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## DanielOB (Mar 28, 2017)

bghunter : If you do not understand it, than you have a problem. Most likely the slang is best fit to you. Use not only your muscles but something more


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

DanielOB said:


> bghunter : If you do not understand it, than you have a problem. Most likely the slang is best fit to you. Use not only your muscles but something more


You sound like you are 15. So I will defer and not insult you as you have much learning in life and I welcome you to our sport.


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## COArrow (Nov 24, 2013)

I know a couple people who lived into their late 90’s and smoked. I don’t think that is a good reason to start smoking. Always going to be a exceptions to the norm. Personally think the OP is just looking for attention. He is trying to be the oprah of AT.


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## dflyfish (Dec 28, 2017)

Isn’t joe Rogan the guy who used to host a show about people eating bugs? Isn’t techno
Some sort of dance music? Is he now making people eat worms while listening to dance music? If so why do you care?

Stick to what you eat and listen to what you want. 

Shoot what you want and eat what you shoot


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## Thumbs (Sep 8, 2013)

There is no “right” way, it’s about what works for you. Why are you so worried about others?
My 2 cents worth


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Thumbs said:


> There is no “right” way, it’s about what works for you. Why are you so worried about others?
> My 2 cents worth


I’m not worried abt rogan and cam just using them as a Segway into getting others opinions on a topic as you can see it’s more popular when you add something others can relate to ass apose to will 84# bows hurt ones shoulder we are on page 20 now


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

dflyfish said:


> Isn’t joe Rogan the guy who used to host a show about people eating bugs? Isn’t techno
> Some sort of dance music? Is he now making people eat worms while listening to dance music? If so why do you care?
> 
> Stick to what you eat and listen to what you want.
> ...


Odd fella


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## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

Cam Hanes has probably does a lot of things...but the one thing I always remember is his comparing a Hoyt Nitrum 34 Turbo to a Mathews HTR Nocam.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2veG2xOci0Q


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## aeds151 (Feb 19, 2016)

Cam will out do us all in everything


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

I just got a little dumber reading this thread......


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## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

I did get a laugh or two.


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

DanielOB said:


> bghunter : If you do not understand it, than you have a problem. Most likely the slang is best fit to you. Use not only your muscles but something more


Uh what?


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Flatwoodshunter said:


> Cam Hanes has probably does a lot of things...but the one thing I always remember is his comparing a Hoyt Nitrum 34 Turbo to a Mathews HTR Nocam.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2veG2xOci0Q


 apples to apples right there can’t deny the camera


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## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

bghunter7311 said:


> apples to apples right there can’t deny the camera


So you think a Hoyt Nitrum 34 set at 27" DL and 83# DW.....a Hoyt Nitrum 34 Turbo set on 27" DL and 70# DW and.....a Mathews HTR Nocam set on 27" DL and 70# DW are.....apples to apples. As far as camera goes...he did not show the chrono speed on camera.


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

Flatwoodshunter said:


> bghunter7311 said:
> 
> 
> > apples to apples right there can’t deny the camera
> ...


 I am being sarcastic


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## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

bghunter7311 said:


> I am being sarcastic


Good...Cam is OK...he's just like's his Hoyt. I have two Hoyts and they are very good Bows.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

aeds151 said:


> Cam will out do us all in everything
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That’s a negative, ghost rider.


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## Ctodhunter (Jan 25, 2015)

Following


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Ctodhunter said:


> Following


why??!!

hahaha


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## ChappyHOYT (Feb 26, 2009)

WhoTH is Joe Rogan? Popcountry singer/professional hunter?


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## bigmac1 (Nov 29, 2013)

One point that I have noticed in this meandering thread is no one has mentioned what it is like to try and smoothly draw back their 84 pound bow after sitting for hours in a tree stand in freezing November temperatures.
All of a sudden that 84 pound bow doesn't draw back as easily as it did in the summer or inside at the range. If you have to point your bow at the sky and jack down on the draw your deer is going to be long gone. just saying...


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## stillern (Feb 1, 2005)

Melissa Bachman draws 65 lbs. Sack up girls!


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

stillern said:


> Melissa Bachman draws 65 lbs. Sack up girls!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lee says Tiff draws 62


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

bigmac1 said:


> One point that I have noticed in this meandering thread is no one has mentioned what it is like to try and smoothly draw back their 84 pound bow after sitting for hours in a tree stand in freezing November temperatures.
> All of a sudden that 84 pound bow doesn't draw back as easily as it did in the summer or inside at the range. If you have to point your bow at the sky and jack down on the draw your deer is going to be long gone. just saying...


84 lbs is light weight regardless of how long I’ve been sitting it’s I can understand how many would feel otherwise we live in a very sedentary soft world.


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## bigmac1 (Nov 29, 2013)

"84 lbs is light weight regardless of how long I’ve been sitting it’s I can understand how many would feel otherwise we live in a very sedentary soft world."[/B]

Noted that you are from Texas. November in Texas is like a different planet compared to November in Alberta.


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## Jeremy K (Oct 16, 2013)

Very entertaining read so far. This argument is as dumb as arguing over how tight to tie your boots .


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## bghunter7311 (Oct 25, 2017)

bigmac1 said:


> "84 lbs is light weight regardless of how long I’ve been sitting it’s I can understand how many would feel otherwise we live in a very sedentary soft world."[/B]
> 
> Noted that you are from Texas. November in Texas is like a different planet compared to November in Alberta.


I have lived in Texas for the last few years but have dont almost no hunting in Texas. I do the most of my archery hunting in the midwest for whitetails


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## pinwheeled (Apr 27, 2008)

9 pages unreal. It's good to know that people have opinions on something that will never ever effect them . 

The Fact that this is my 2nd post in this thread i am now going to kick my own as$. 

Oh ya my first post was just a link to Cam shooting at over a 100 yards had nothing to do with the topic of this stupid thread. Now back to kicking my own as$.


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## AussieGav (Aug 16, 2016)

I know a fella over here in Aus that was as fit as a Malley Bull.... 20 plus years at shooting 80lb has left his Shoulders and elbows stuffed... i own 70 lb Bows and i can hold my own but i choose to shoot them at around 64lb... draw is smoother and if i cant knock anything over with that then I'll let it walk... just my opinion but its all about shot placement isnt it?????


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

pinwheeled said:


> 9 pages unreal. It's good to know that people have opinions on something that will never ever effect them .
> 
> The Fact that this is my 2nd post in this thread i am now going to kick my own as$.
> 
> Oh ya my first post was just a link to Cam shooting at over a 100 yards had nothing to do with the topic of this stupid thread. Now back to kicking my own as$.


may want to wait till july to kick your own *****, doing so this time of year will blow your shoulder out for sure. I know someone who once kicked their own *****....then....POW!!! both shoulders gone....now I draw 25lbs only.

hope that helps


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

I read the first two pages, then skipped to the last, and nothing different.


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## mhbehnke (Feb 26, 2018)

How many times has anyone thought, "If my bow was x instead of y I could've taken that shot?" If i found myself in more than a couple positions like that then I would build up my musculature, get some form instruction, and make x my goal. 

~Or just get a crossbow/rifle/rpg/friend who shares meat~

Seriously though, The journey, not the destination is what is important to me. 

Sidebar: I wish folks could have reasonable discussions, about anything thesedays, with an open mind. Personally, I prefer to learn not insist on being correct. Works in/on school, marriage, children, a litany of disciplines, and really most life in general.

Train by day! Keep hammering at night!


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