# PSE Carbon Force "Quality Control Chinese Style"!



## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

Tomorrow is a 3D shoot in Semiahmoo I am looking forward to, I have a new Hoyt Proelite, a new drop away rest, with all the bells and whistles. 

I was excited today to get my Dozen PSE Carbon Force "Radial X Weave" STL Hunter 200's which came packaged from PSE with 2" inch Bohning Blazers with a White Cock Fletch & two bright Orange Hen Fletches. 

Imagine my surprise that within 20 minutes of shooting 6 of the arrows at the range, 1 hen fletch and 3 cock fletches are missing mid flight after leaving my bow fluttering to the ground at around 40 meters, imagine my surprise when I take a Right out of the Tube, never been shot X weave #7 and clip the nock onto my string and the White cock fletch falls away in front of me, before I even have a chance to fire it.

Sooooooooo non plussed and a little P'Od, a buddy of mine comes up to me and takes me to his open bowcase, there in front of me are the exact same arrows with the white cock fletch and 2 bright orange hen fletches. The obvious thing I notice in his collection of PSE X weaves are missing White Cock Fletch and assorted Orange Hen Fletches. Now he bought these from the Pro Shop the week before and within a day, his fletches fell off mid flight.

Not to be outdone another shooter with the exact arrows. He bought his PSE X weaves last month, Guess What? "You got it Pontiac"! Missing fletches, he had to refletch his entire dozen "White and Orange Fletches. So I can safely assume these are from all the same Batch of Arrows from the Manufacturer.

So I finish my shoot with the remaining PSE Carbon Force "Radial X Weave" STL Hunter 200's arrows, which fly and group awesome. Great Arrows, Great Bohning Blazers. Unfortunately I found out that when I went to the Pro Shop the assembly and "GLUING" of the Fletches are done in "CHINA!"
*
I ASK YOU ALL, "DID WE JUST LOSE A FRIGGIN WAR?"*

First of All, I can never recall any other arrow manufacturer from the hundreds of arrows I have bought, like Easton and Beman and other Arrow Makers ever having a fletch fall off mid flight, much less fall off when nocking an arrow!

Secondly, What does it say about "PSE Quality Assurance"? Does PSE not have someone in China checking batches of arrows before shipping them to the North American consumer? Why should we the North American Consumer be responsible for their Quality Assurance, in having Archers resort to places like Archery Talk Forums to get results and air our beefs? I went to the Pro Shop after dinner with my complaint and the Owner was clearly embarrassed and upset and said "It seems I am not the only one with these complaints as it has just started to be a problem in the past month with PSE Carbon Force Arrows. I asked him if he was going to contact PSE and Rip them a "New One"! He said most definitely he is going to contact them. Why? Because I had to buy a 30 dollar package of Bohning Blazers and rush home and fletch them in order for them to be dry for my 3D Tournament tomorrow! Certainly not something I expected to do this evening, when one buys a dozen pre fletched arrows. So I am out of pocket for $30.00, though I would have bought them eventually anyways. 

I noticed when I was REFLETCHING my New Arrows, as I was removing the NEW FLETCHES that the Glue on all the arrows was brittle and sparse along the arrow and fletch. So after cleaning them, I put my new Blazers on. 

In Ending, this Rant is not about the Quality of the Carbon Force Arrows by PSE, they are great Arrows, this is also not a Rant against Bohning Blazers either, they work quite well. 

This is a "RANT" against "PSE Quality Control" or Lack of it! I put it this way, if you are going to "Out Source" your arrow Manufacturing and Assembly to China, just remember your NAME and Company Reputation is on those Arrows!
There are more of us Archers out there, than there are Assembly Workers in China, we spend billions of Dollars on Archery equipment. So Give your Head a Shake PSE, and get some Quality Control, or have the Arrows manufactured or assembled here in North America! Leaving it to people making a $1.00 a day, brings to mind the adage, "You get what you pay for"!

PSE is fortunate, it is someone experienced in Archery and Equipment who is complaining. Imagine a new Archer experiencing arrow failure? Guess who *won't be buying any PSE or Bohning equipment *or spreading by word of mouth that your arrows are CRAP! When truth be known, they are not! It is just your Quality Control which blows. I know this, but I bet many new archers do not, and wont buy your products.

I am sure many have heard the PSE Expression "Point-Shoot-Explode" (PSE)? 

Best PSE "Nip" this in the Bud PSE, or suffer the Slings and Arrows of Rumour and Innuendo by Archers who do not know the difference between Good Equipment but faulty assembly practices. 

The same goes for any other Archery Manufacturer out there who thinks Profit, Profit, Profit, and cheap Chinese Manufacturing and Labour is paramount to their Bottom Line. 

Remember Archers are your Bottom Line, don't Forget it! The Big 3 Automakers did, and look where they are today!


No one ever complains about Quality! 

Thanks all for listening, lets hope this gets to PSE and Other Archery Manufacturers. :thumbs_do

Anyone else in this forum have stories to share about Shoddy Archery products?


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## deadly (Mar 17, 2006)

This ANOTHER example why I buy AMERICAN made whenever I can. Easton all the way. They make as good as arrow as anyone and for everyone from the beginner to the expert competition shooter.

BUY AMERICAN!!! :thumbs_up

Would you buy a Chinese made bow???


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## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

deadly said:


> This ANOTHER example why I buy AMERICAN made whenever I can. Easton all the way. They make as good as arrow as anyone and for everyone from the beginner to the expert competition shooter.
> 
> BUY AMERICAN!!! :thumbs_up
> 
> Would you buy a Chinese made bow???


I agree, Though PSE's Carbon Force Arrows are Awesome as are Bohning Blazers, it is the quality control in the mating of the two products I have a problem with and what this post is about. This also applies to Archery manufacturers to the Big 3 automakers, to the clothing we buy. Consumers cannot be dictated by that Big Yellow Smiley Face, where the lowest price is the law, cause we all know, low price and low quality go hand in hand. A Bow and Arrow is a weapon! It can Kill, just like a Car and Truck! Does it make sense to manufacture and sell inferior products (Whether from China or here at home) which can kill you or the public if the product is shoddy and Quality Control is non existent or lacking? Hence my original statement "DID WE JUST LOSE A FRIGGIN WAR"?

I remember pre 1980s, we were leaders in manufacturing, people the world over were knocking down our doors for our products! Now Kissy Face Corporates outsourcing our Birthright to countries who do not even pay US or Canadian Taxes get away with screwing us over, both economically and job wise.
Their taking the food out of our families mouths! Anyway not to get off topic, as this is another story. 

Last month I went into a pro shop to buy an STS for my Hoyt $65.00, on the lower rack there were obvious copies made in China, they looked identical, I took the chinese made version of the STS out of its package and Lo and Behold, it was pretty friggin apparent the difference between the STS and the Chinese made $35.00 fake STS. But you know to the untrained archer or newbie, they see only price. This chinese made STS was a piece of total crap! It boggles the mind how this crap gets into our country! 

I put it this way, Fakes or shoddy made copies of anything, hurts the original manufacturers like STS and other Archery manufacturers two fold, one someone sees the product, it looks like the one in a Archery magazine, someone buys the copy thinking they are getting the real deal, uses it, finds it is junk and spreads the word this Manufacturer makes shoddy merchandise.
When in fact it is a fake as far as I am concerned. And secondly the unknowledgable Archer who bought the stuff, decides never to buy from this company ever again, or quits archery all together, this hurts the Archery business as well as Clubs and Proshops who rely on members to buy their stuff. 

I spend about 2K a year on archery equipment, and mentioned to the ProShop about these poorly made copies he was selling and the ramifications of keeping crap in his shop,both to future archers and the archers like me who may be shooting beside someone with a product, which may at anytime explode next to me or upon drawing a bow, send an errant arrow towards another archer. Who would the victim sue? The Chinese Archery Manufacturer in China? Hey Good Luck with that!

Thank god he had only 3 of these STS copies, he listened, took them off the shelf and says he will send them back to the imported, whence they came. CHINA!

As for me, I will continue to buy PSE arrows, I will just tell em, dont bother fletching them for me, I'll do em myself.

We in North America have lost our Birthright as a Leader in Manufacturing and Quality Control, for low prices and even lower quality.


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## deadly (Mar 17, 2006)

Barry O'Regan said:


> I agree, Though PSE's Carbon Force Arrows are Awesome as are Bohning Blazers, it is the quality control in the mating of the two products I have a problem with and what this post is about. This also applies to Archery manufacturers to the Big 3 automakers, to the clothing we buy. Consumers cannot be dictated by that Big Yellow Smiley Face, where the lowest price is the law, cause we all know, low price and low quality go hand in hand. A Bow and Arrow is a weapon! It can Kill, just like a Car and Truck! Does it make sense to manufacture and sell inferior products (Whether from China or here at home) which can kill you or the public if the product is shoddy and Quality Control is non existent or lacking? Hence my original statement "DID WE JUST LOSE A FRIGGIN WAR"?
> 
> I remember pre 1980s, we were leaders in manufacturing, people the world over were knocking down our doors for our products! Now Kissy Face Corporates outsourcing our Birthright to countries who do not even pay US or Canadian Taxes get away with screwing us over, both economically and job wise.
> Their taking the food out of our families mouths! Anyway not to get off topic, as this is another story.
> ...


Where are the PSE carbon arrows built? I know Carbon Express are in Asia.:angry: 

You complain about the American Companies going offshore to make the goods. The only way to change that is to refuse to buy their products unless they are built here. Sometimes there are no options, but in the case of quality arrows YOU have a choice. So in my opinion you are part of the problem not the solution. Not here busting your chops. It just drives me crazy when I read about the foreign made products and the same person complaining is buying them.

BUY AMERICA whenever you can!!!!


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## muzzyman1212 (Mar 28, 2009)

gold tip and easton all the way


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## wimnbowhunter (Apr 13, 2009)

*american*

dont forget the bemans. i perfer those to but easton makes them so.


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## c5mrr270 (Mar 3, 2009)

Carbon techs are also made in the USA and are great arrows.


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## condude4 (Sep 14, 2008)

My STL hunters were fletched by myself. None of them even thought of falling off. They are good arrows i got 2 robbinhoods with a half dozen.


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## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

*This reply is to Deadly*

When you buy PSE I take it for granted it is American, only when you see the fine print way at the bottom do you realize it is made in China! I was as shocked as many to find out. I reflected the arrows myself and so far so good.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*Uh huh*

There are a lot of companies out there that want people to think their products are still US made. They want to keep the ruse up as long as they can. You can see it in the crappy quality of their products made in chi-ne. In the end, it will cost them.


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## steez1 (Feb 11, 2009)

I have had the same problems with th blazers on my CF but htey were built localy maybe the glue just doesnt stick to the shafs as well ill probably go back to goldtip next year


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## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

IBBW said:


> There are a lot of companies out there that want people to think their products are still US made. They want to keep the ruse up as long as they can. You can see it in the crappy quality of their products made in chi-ne. In the end, it will cost them.


Tell me about it! Hence my stance "Did we just lose a WAR"?
Our birthright as a manufacturing nation, both USA and Canada are down the toilet I fear, as I said before to that Big Yellow Smiley Face and consumers who dont realise our jobs are on the line when they shop there and end up with disposable items, as they never last like they did in the good old days. Remember your younger sibling complaining about always wearing your hand me downs, that hasnt happened in over 20 years, cause after a few washes even you cant fit into it.


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## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

steez1 said:


> I have had the same problems with th blazers on my CF but htey were built localy maybe the glue just doesnt stick to the shafs as well ill probably go back to goldtip next year


I just took off the old Blazers off the carbon force arrows, found glue spots in three points instead of all along where the fletch was, put on latex gloves, took a rag dipping in rubbing alcohol, and a green scotch brite pad, rubbed it along the shaft where I wanted the new Blazers to go, dried it, put on fletch tite glue, and was shooting my arrows the next day. The Blazers work great, and the glue hold fast to the Carbon force Arrows no problem. Like I said nothing wrong with either the Carbon force arrows or the Blazers, it is just some $1.00 a day Wonk who doesnt know how to apply glue to fletches and arrows.


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## Ottavio (Aug 26, 2007)

Hey Berry,
After every thing you just said I think its a bit hypocritical of you to still do business with a company that is so heavily doing business in and with China!!!!! 
You shouldn't buy the arrows fletched or not!!!!!


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## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

Ottavio said:


> Hey Berry,
> After every thing you just said I think its a bit hypocritical of you to still do business with a company that is so heavily doing business in and with China!!!!!
> You shouldn't buy the arrows fletched or not!!!!!


I would not say Hypocritical, if you read my post, I assumed as they were PSE, they were made in the good ole USA, only after the fletches started falling off, did I notice the small print. I am stuck with em now, and since I refletched em they fly great, would I buy another set? I most likely stick with my ACCs.


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## camoman73 (Jul 7, 2007)

Hate to break the news ,but gold tip arrows are now made in mexico.
Nope not american made,and the quality has gone down the drain.


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## Ottavio (Aug 26, 2007)

Barry,

I'm sorry, I thought you said you would continue to buy PSE arrows and just tell them to not fletch them.


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## Madlaz (Jul 4, 2008)

*pse fu*

Just think in the near future pse kung fu x bow also browning chop chop compound bow with complinentry chop sticks and bamboo quiver LMAO Laz


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## Barry O'Regan (Nov 2, 2008)

camoman73 said:


> Hate to break the news ,but gold tip arrows are now made in mexico.
> Nope not american made,and the quality has gone down the drain.


No problem Ottavio, 

You know everyone, its funny, suppliers are sending stuff overseas or across the border in Mexico, think of the shipping costs, pollution both in the manufacturing and shipping them back to North America, and the cheap "figh doallah" love you long time labor costs, yet my PSE Carbon forces were like 120 dollars Canadian Funds or $6.00 US Funds (HA!) Pretty pricey for a dozen arrows. Gold Tips Amigo I am sure are not cheap either, so someone is making a heck of a profit, when I can get ACCs for like 20 dollars extra and made in the USA. Sounds like a Rip off to me. Hopefully Archery Manufacturers will read this post and our comments, and think twice before shipping our jobs and taxes overseas. I figure with automation we could make em here just as cheaply.


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## Bow Maniac (Apr 23, 2009)

*carbon force,express,,,,*

i was always under the impression that carbon force arrows and carbon express arrows are built in the same factory,,,same arrows,,,different name,,,and are subleted back to pse and carbon express...


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## Thunderstruck U (Dec 31, 2008)

BE AMERICAN AND BUY AMERICAN I just asked a similar question on another forum and was disappointed to find out that Gold Tip is now made in Mexico and that Carbon Express is the Orient. I will now only be buying Easton or Beman arrows. Let's stick together and let these other so called American companies know how we feel about their out sourcing.


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## Nitro Stinger 5 (Apr 26, 2008)

Not all Easton or Beaman's are made in USA. The cheaper carbons are china or mexico. Carbon Tech has moved overseas also. If you think that a bad job was done on the fletching of the arrow,the same person made that arrow.

Glen Jr.


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## newq (Apr 9, 2009)

not that I genuinely considered the whole where is it made issue but, I did just purchased a set of easton game getters and they seemed sturdy , and the fletching was fine. I do see all of your points and recognise you distrust for products made overseas. To be honest you expect that if you buy cheap products they will be disposable and that if you by top dollar you get top notch. Unfortunately we all also know that top dollar, top notch materials do not revoke poor craftsmanship and we should recognize much less where it is made for how much the quality suffers because of the outsourcing they have done.

What we do not want is to group or classify people and be labeled as bigots and have our claims dismissed as such. Poor quality is poor quality. High quality with poor craftsmanship is a crying shame.


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## cbd10pt (Jun 11, 2004)

Barry O'Regan said:


> I just took off the old Blazers off the carbon force arrows, found glue spots in three points instead of all along where the fletch was, put on latex gloves, took a rag dipping in rubbing alcohol, and a green scotch brite pad, rubbed it along the shaft where I wanted the new Blazers to go, dried it, put on fletch tite glue, and was shooting my arrows the next day. The Blazers work great, and the glue hold fast to the Carbon force Arrows no problem. Like I said nothing wrong with either the Carbon force arrows or the Blazers, it is just some $1.00 a day Wonk who doesnt know how to apply glue to fletches and arrows.



Some "wonk" did not aply the glue it was sprayed on by a machine it's about $40,000 in the US . sound's like they did not have it spraying enough glue for awhile.
*The well manored* under paid fellow human probobally did a great job placing the arrow in the machine


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## jjonesgt500 (Apr 1, 2009)

this is kinda off the subject of the arrows but if something is MADE IN THE USA theres a very good chance that it was just put together here and the parts that go into it were bought from another country! take easton arrows some are made in the USA but the alloys that make up the arrow and the carbon that was used more than likely came from another country i`m just saying that its hard to buy an ALL AMERICAN product anymore theres always something that we didn`t make here that is put into the final product


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## Nitro Stinger 5 (Apr 26, 2008)

I manufacture carbon arrows. My material (carbon) made in CA, my tooling to make the arrow CA, the nocks OK and the tip adapter KS. All the machines, shrink (cello) tape and boxes are American made. I don't know why more manufactures choose to have their products made elsewhere. I can make anything that china and mexico can.

Glen Jr.


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## zac82 (Sep 28, 2008)

"some wonk"????????? i would guess your age at about 12? or 14?


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## switchraph (Feb 14, 2006)

zac82 said:


> "some wonk"????????? i would guess your age at about 12? or 14?


this guy is unstatisfied with his brand spanking arrows and you should respect this, if it were me i'd be fricking pissed also

btw i ALWAYS buy bare shaft arrows, and got me a bitz fletching jig, this way arrows are ALWAYS to my liking and if im getting problem with the fletching, i just tear it apart and redo it


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## clarkarcher (May 14, 2009)

i had the exact same issue with the carbon force 300 three arrows out for dozen in less than two weeks


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## bossofduhwoods (Jan 29, 2006)

*american made*

Hello ahhello out there, Victory arrows are the only amercan made shafts. used to mfg. g.t. but, But now g.t is asian bourne as well. being packaged in usa dosen`t mean their mfg. in the godd ol usa. anyone out there ever shoot g.t`s ? well their now VIC`s


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## marty (Jun 4, 2002)

Why does everyone still have those arrows? Why didn't you return them and either demand your money back or have the shafts stripped and refletched at no charge.

Foreign made does not mean poor quality unless folks allow that. Every PC main circuit board is made in the far east. Virtually all of the memory modules are made overseas. No TV's are made in the USA, etc., yet we have the best quality TV's and computers that have ever existed.

I have a friend who makes kites in China. He makes many trips to the factory to make sure that the quality is what he expects them to be. If things aren't good enough, he doesn't accept them and doesn't pay for them. Surely the folks at PSE have as much clout as my friend and could demand decent quality.


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## 'J' (May 19, 2009)

IBBW said:


> There are a lot of companies out there that want people to think their products are still US made. They want to keep the ruse up as long as they can. You can see it in the crappy quality of their products made in chi-ne. In the end, it will cost them.


This is the same reason that the auto industry is crap. If you want to buy an American made car you have to buy Toyota.


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## icex (Nov 5, 2007)

I'm from China. Pse arrow is made in China. The arrow have some problem. In China some one use the arrow from same factory.
I think Pse don't know the trues of China factory.


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