# RKT cam swap.....don't be scared! Great mod.



## Ray knight

Just finished my 8th RKT cam swap. I documented everything on the last few. ALL were VERY consistent. To start, From Fuel or XTR to RKT is almost a direct swap! Cams will fit exactly the same in the limbs. Shims are the same, everything. Just jot down where they were on your old cams and you are good to go. When you install your strings you will notice EXTREME top cam under-rotation. To correct this, and of all 8 bows this is where they all timed exactly. Assuming you had your timing correct before!! Remove 2.5 twists from your control cable and add 3 twists to your buss cable. Your draw length should stay exactly the same and you should only gain 2-4# depending on your limbs (my Am35 gained 6#). On the last one i did tonight, it was a 60# Alpha Elite with #3 fuels. I went from peak weight of 58.63# to peak weight of 60.67#. Now, here is the part that you will like! Set to exactly 58.63# with the fuels it shot through the chrono with a 368 grain Easton fatboy 400 at 303fps. With the RKT cams set to the EXACT same 58.63# with the very same arrow, it shot 311fps. Thats an 8fps gain with zero other changes. Same string, same speed nocks, same timing, same draw weight. 8fps is great but, the REAL gain is the draw cycle and valley is greatly improved. It feels much more "locked in" at full draw and does not want to rip your arm off like the fuel cams if you start to let up. The wall is rock solid, same as the fuel and XTR cam but its far easier to hold! So in conclusion this is a great upgrade for any bow with XTR or Fuel cams. You will gain speed and get a far better draw cycle and valley.


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## Ray knight




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## utaharcher

Sweet, So unlike the Z3 conversions you do not need new limbs to keep the poundage the same? I have a 2012 Rampage XT with the Fuel cams. So i could do this RKT conversion and increase my poundage just a bit but have a better valley? ( I have 65lb. limbs) Thanks. Also how much do the cams cost?


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## Ray knight

utaharcher said:


> Sweet, So unlike the Z3 conversions you do not need new limbs to keep the poundage the same? I have a 2012 Rampage XT with the Fuel cams. So i could do this RKT conversion and increase my poundage just a bit but have a better valley? ( I have 65lb. limbs) Thanks. Also how much do the cams cost?


Yes!!! The cams are $100-$140 depending on what dealer you get them from.


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## triumph

Had mine done on my Alpha Elite and would not look back. Rkt Cams and new strings thats it.


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## hoyt em all

what about a trykon xl, will it work. will the draw weight go up or down


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## Tunaboy

It will work on a Trykon XL. I have XTR cams on my Trykon and it was a GREAT improvement. If you can't find RKT cams consider the fuel or XTR's.


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## -bowfreak-

Ray knight said:


> Just finished my 8th RKT cam swap. I documented everything on the last few. ALL were VERY consistent. To start, From Fuel or XTR to RKT is almost a direct swap! Cams will fit exactly the same in the limbs. Shims are the same, everything. Just jot down where they were on your old cams and you are good to go. When you install your strings you will notice EXTREME top cam under-rotation. To correct this, and of all 8 bows this is where they all timed exactly. Assuming you had your timing correct before!! Remove 2.5 twists from your control cable and add 3 twists to your buss cable. Your draw length should stay exactly the same and you should only gain 2-4# depending on your limbs (my Am35 gained 6#). On the last one i did tonight, it was a 60# Alpha Elite with #3 fuels. I went from peak weight of 58.63# to peak weight of 60.67#. Now, here is the part that you will like! Set to exactly 58.63# with the fuels it shot through the chrono with a 368 grain Easton fatboy 400 at 303fps. With the RKT cams set to the EXACT same 58.63# with the very same arrow, it shot 311fps. Thats an 8fps gain with zero other changes. Same string, same speed nocks, same timing, same draw weight. 8fps is great but, the REAL gain is the draw cycle and valley is greatly improved. It feels much more "locked in" at full draw and does not want to rip your arm off like the fuel cams if you start to let up. The wall is rock solid, same as the fuel and XTR cam but its far easier to hold! So in conclusion this is a great upgrade for any bow with XTR or Fuel cams. You will gain speed and get a far better draw cycle and valley.


Just curious....how do you advance the top cam so far without gaining draw length?


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## Reverend

Subscribed.
If Hoyt doesn't come out with anything real impressive next month... I'm going this route.
I'm assuming the string and cable lengths all stayed the same also?


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## Ray knight

-bowfreak- said:


> Just curious....how do you advance the top cam so far without gaining draw length?


To advance the top cam, you take a few twists out of the control cable but then add a few twists to the buss cable. Not enough to have a huge impact on the draw weight. If you control the top cam by tightening the buss cable only you can bump the weight higher, if you control the top cam by untwisting the control cable only then your weight will go down. I split them up and untwist control and twist buss so that the cables are either over twisted or under twisted too far. So, you can make custom cable sizes to gain or lose weight accordingly if you wish too. Make 1/4" longer control and take a twist or two OUT of the buss as well and you would keep your weight about the same as the fuel or XTR. Make the buss cable 1/4" shorter and put a twist or two IN the control cable and you will gain 6-8# over the fuel or XTR.


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## Ray knight

Reverend said:


> Subscribed.
> If Hoyt doesn't come out with anything real impressive next month... I'm going this route.
> I'm assuming the string and cable lengths all stayed the same also?


As described above, stock strings and cables can be used with a few adjustments to the buss and control and the DL will stay the same.


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## -bowfreak-

Ray knight said:


> To advance the top cam, you take a few twists out of the control cable but then add a few twists to the buss cable. Not enough to have a huge impact on the draw weight. If you control the top cam by tightening the buss cable only you can bump the weight higher, if you control the top cam by untwisting the control cable only then your weight will go down. I split them up and untwist control and twist buss so that the cables are either over twisted or under twisted too far. So, you can make custom cable sizes to gain or lose weight accordingly if you wish too. Make 1/4" longer control and take a twist or two OUT of the buss as well and you would keep your weight about the same as the fuel or XTR. Make the buss cable 1/4" shorter and put a twist or two IN the control cable and you will gain 6-8# over the fuel or XTR.


I never work with the control cam as when I first started working on Hoyts I learned by the Javi post. Based on what he posted regardless of how you advance the top cam you are going to increase dl and dw. I always wondered if he made a typo in that thread as he seemed to infer differntly.

So....lengthening the cc will advance the top cam (I knew that) and lower dl and dw (didnt know this)?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## DavidBLingo

subscribed


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## Reverend

Ray knight said:


> As described above, stock strings and cables can be used with a few adjustments to the buss and control and the DL will stay the same.


Ray I noticed that the strings and buss cable lengths are different for both those cams according to the Hoyt tune chart. When you say "stock" strings, do you mean the stock strings that came with the Fuels, or the stock that are recommended for the RKT? 

What will happen if I just get the new RKT's AND the Hoyt recommended string lengths for the RKT?


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## Ray knight

Reverend said:


> Ray I noticed that the strings and buss cable lengths are different for both those cams according to the Hoyt tune chart. When you say "stock" strings, do you mean the stock strings that came with the Fuels, or the stock that are recommended for the RKT?
> 
> What will happen if I just get the new RKT's AND the Hoyt recommended string lengths for the RKT?


Stock strings meaning the same ones you used for the fuel or XTR. Hoyt lowered the limb deflections with the RKT cams so if you use those lengths you will lose draw weight. Also, most of the lengths listed are approximate. Almost every time i end up with the buss twisted more than the control to get it to time. So i normally take those numbers and order a slightly longer control cable and shorter buss. About 1/8". Just to keep the twists even. The best way is just adjust your cables to the correct spec on the bow then put them on a 100# stretcher and measure to get the corrected lengths. If you only nee to put say 2-3 in the buss and take out say 2-3 on the control its fine.


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## ontarget7

Might just have to do this on my 2010 Carbon Matrix .


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## Ray knight

ontarget7 said:


> Might just have to do this on my 2010 Carbon Matrix .


Do not use the 2012 RKT lengths! They will be too long of cables since you have a cable slide. Use the stock 2010 lengths and follow my op to get it within 1/2 twist of where you need to be on the first shot.


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## skynight

Where are you buying the cams? Dealer or direct? This sounds very interesting. What was the draw length on the Alpha Elite in the first post doing 303fps at 58#?


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## ontarget7

Ray knight said:


> Do not use the 2012 RKT lengths! They will be too long of cables since you have a cable slide. Use the stock 2010 lengths and follow my op to get it within 1/2 twist of where you need to be on the first shot.


Thanks for clarifying and that's what I figured. Should have a good draw cycle . PM me if you have any info on a Z3 conversion with the same bow. Looking to get 29 1/4 to 29 3/8 for draw length.


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## Psemach11

Could you please tell me what it cost to make this change? Thanks


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## Ray knight

skynight said:


> Where are you buying the cams? Dealer or direct? This sounds very interesting. What was the draw length on the Alpha Elite in the first post doing 303fps at 58#?


30.5" buying cams from dealer.


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## Ray knight

ontarget7 said:


> Thanks for clarifying and that's what I figured. Should have a good draw cycle . PM me if you have any info on a Z3 conversion with the same bow. Looking to get 29 1/4 to 29 3/8 for draw length.


Z3 is totally different. Similar. To SpiralX cams. I can figure it out if you want to try it.


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## Ray knight

Psemach11 said:


> Could you please tell me what it cost to make this change? Thanks


If you have a press, $100-$140 for cams is the only expense.


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## mikesmith66

Good thread Ray Knight ! :darkbeer:


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## ontarget7

Ray knight said:


> Z3 is totally different. Similar. To SpiralX cams. I can figure it out if you want to try it.


Ya, I know . Thought about making another run at Vegas and some outdoor Fita shoots in the future.


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## okiedeergirl

Great info thanks for sharing


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## bill1566

Ray do you work on other peoples bows??? If so i would be willing to send mine to you after the season for you to do your magic to it. It is a 2010 Maxxis 35 and i really love my bow but i would not mind getting alittle more speed out of it and to be honest i do not have any problem with the valley in my bow but if you can make it better i would like to send it to you. There is really no one around here except my friend i trust with the bow but he is no longer makeing strings or doing anything with bows.

If you do this let me know my email is [email protected]

thanks


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## tweeter196

Good info.....I might try this on my AM.......thanks

Fearless at the stake!!!!!


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## -bowfreak-

-bowfreak- said:


> I never work with the control cam as when I first started working on Hoyts I learned by the Javi post. Based on what he posted regardless of how you advance the top cam you are going to increase dl and dw. I always wondered if he made a typo in that thread as he seemed to infer differntly.
> 
> So....lengthening the cc will advance the top cam (I knew that) and lower dl and dw (didnt know this)?
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


Can someone confirm this?


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## Kris87

-bowfreak- said:


> Can someone confirm this?


Lengthening the cc should increase DW and DL.


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## -bowfreak-

Kris87 said:


> Lengthening the cc should increase DW and DL.


Which is what I thought.

I don't see any way possible that you can have a severely under rotated top cam and not increase dl and dw to fix. That was my original thought anyway. Non the less it is still a cool mod and I am not trying to crap on Ray's thread.


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## Ray knight

Kris87 said:


> Lengthening the cc should increase DW and DL.


Of course yes it does! But, these are different cams. The post locations are different so the cables need adjusted to get the timing right. You do gain a few #s in DW as i mentioned. The post to mount the control cable sits deeper in the cam on the RKT.


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## spike camp

I had a similar experience when installing #2 RKT's on a 2011 Element. 
Tried it first with a 2012 string set and ended up using the 2011 set.
DL was spot on.....DW went up about 8#.
Zero tuning issues and the roll over is way better with RKT's.

Is Hoyt still maintaining the conversion can't be done


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## Ray knight

Here is the reason you lengthen the control cable for the RKT swap. Top pic is XTR (fuel is the same measurement) lower pic is the RKT:



















You can see the post for the control cable sits back 1/8" farther hence the need to lengthen the control and shorten the buss to get it to time.


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## -bowfreak-

Ray knight said:


> Here is the reason you lengthen the control cable for the RKT swap. Top pic is XTR (fuel is the same measurement) lower pic is the RKT:
> 
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> You can see the post for the control cable sits back 1/8" farther hence the need to lengthen the control and shorten the buss to get it to time.


A picture is worth 1,000 words. Makes perfect sense now.


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## GWFH

Ray, do you know if the limb deflection # is the same on a '11 vs '12 Alpha?.....say for a 60# fuel vs rkt
In other words, is the only difference the cam and string length?

Thanks for posting your findings


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## Ray knight

GWFH said:


> Ray, do you know if the limb deflection # is the same on a '11 vs '12 Alpha?.....say for a 60# fuel vs rkt
> In other words, is the only difference the cam and string length?
> 
> Thanks for posting your findings


Guessing the deflection is about 2-4 points lower on the 2012 limbs. It should be anyways. Thats the only difference. If you follow my OP and adjust the cables like that your draw weight will hardly change.


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## Standbanger

I stopped shooting my Maxxis 31 because of the sensation of pulling/ripping away at full draw. If the RKT cam will fix this. I am all in.


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## Ray knight

Standbanger said:


> I stopped shooting my Maxxis 31 because of the sensation of pulling/ripping away at full draw. If the RKT cam will fix this. I am all in.


Yes it will fix that


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## scott*devin

lookin good


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## Ray knight

Some more fine tuning today.. set to exactly 60#, D mods installed (31" DL) and is now shooting a 338 grain arrow at 327fps. Thats close to 340 IBO!! This bow is starting to impress me  I like it. Not sure how much difference the D mods made but i would guess 5-6 fps.


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## KRW

Ray , great info here ,thanks for taking the time to post your findings


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## JustJerry

Ray thanks for a great post loaded with lots of useful 411!


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## Reverend

RK-
What did this conversion do to the Brace Height and A2A?


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## Ray knight

Reverend said:


> RK-
> What did this conversion do to the Brace Height and A2A?


Stayed exactly the same. No change there.


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## C Doyle 88

Thanks Ray, very good thread
If more shooters would respond to threads like these maybe the bow builders would get the idea ( quit yanking us around ) 

Cec


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## DavidBLingo

Are the draw lenght mods on the fuel and rkt cams the same?


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## Ray knight

DavidBLingo said:


> Are the draw lenght mods on the fuel and rkt cams the same?


NO. XTR and Fuel mods are the same (xr mods). RKT mods are unique to the RKT.


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## shadowfox21

I'm going to have to try this on my Rampage XT. Is it possible to upgrade the roller gaurd as well


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## dwagoner

Ray you never stated how the draw felt thru the cycle, only how valley and wall are, what did you feel differently on draw cycle????

is that just the top cam that has the post in different spot?? lower cam pretty much same???


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## Buster of Xs

Tunaboy said:


> It will work on a Trykon XL. I have XTR cams on my Trykon and it was a GREAT improvement. If you can't find RKT cams consider the fuel or XTR's.


Your DW even stayed the same, right?


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## Halovar

I am definetly doing this to my 2010 Carbon Matrix, I love this bow but with a few more fps it might just replace my Specialist as my 3D bow again


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## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> Ray you never stated how the draw felt thru the cycle, only how valley and wall are, what did you feel differently on draw cycle????
> 
> is that just the top cam that has the post in different spot?? lower cam pretty much same???


Its hard to describe exactly what it is but the draw feels smoother. The valley is so much better!! Here is a quick pic of the lower cams. Its easy to see the cam shape is much different. See the flat spot at 8:00? I think the RKT has a bit more leverage where it counts. Makes it easier to draw. 

XTR









Fuel









RKT









Black RKT with silver fuel behind for comparison


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## Ray knight

Halovar said:


> I am definetly doing this to my 2010 Carbon Matrix, I love this bow but with a few more fps it might just replace my Specialist as my 3D bow again


I did really well in 3D with my RKT Matrix. Seems in 3D i find myself holding much longer trying to find the 11 ring. The increase in valley and more "locked in" feel of the RKT cam will definately be an advantage in 3D.


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## Buster of Xs

In that bottom pic, Ray, you'll notice how there's some different geometry to the mod (buss takeup track). That change in curvature is going to be why the valley feels different, since it's flexing the limbs a different amount at different points in the cams' rotation. See how the RKY is rounded out more and has less of a peak than the Fuel mod?


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## Ray knight

Buster of Xs said:


> In that bottom pic, Ray, you'll notice how there's some different geometry to the mod (buss takeup track). That change in curvature is going to be why the valley feels different, since it's flexing the limbs a different amount at different points in the cams' rotation. See how the RKY is rounded out more and has less of a peak than the Fuel mod?


Those are E mods on the RKT and D mods on the Fuel but the mods are definitely differently curved. The RKT mods have a larger path.


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## ProtecMan

subscribed
Good thread Ray, nice work!


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## dwagoner

Ray ima throw something into your testing mix, ever hear of bomar draw stop pegs??? i have some myself in both sizes for hoyts, i think you may wanna try them out to see how you like the change they do for the wall. There not a round post like stock but a machined piece thats bout 1/4" flat that gives you a more positive stop and back wall, there $13 ea and i got both sizes (like larger and smaller round stock hoyts) for $25 for both. my buddy has on his bowtech and WOW its like a concrete wall at full draw, there nice!!! since its hunting season i havent got to play with mine but i fell thell do pretty well, check em out if you havent before


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## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> Ray ima throw something into your testing mix, ever hear of bomar draw stop pegs??? i have some myself in both sizes for hoyts, i think you may wanna try them out to see how you like the change they do for the wall. There not a round post like stock but a machined piece thats bout 1/4" flat that gives you a more positive stop and back wall, there $13 ea and i got both sizes (like larger and smaller round stock hoyts) for $25 for both. my buddy has on his bowtech and WOW its like a concrete wall at full draw, there nice!!! since its hunting season i havent got to play with mine but i fell thell do pretty well, check em out if you havent before


Never seen those before! I will have to test them. I like a little bit of give in the wall as it helps fire a hinge but no matter how solid it is as long as its on the cable it should give enough. The limb stops are the ones that are hard to work with using a hinge. The wall is pretty hard with the RKT already. It only feels softer than the spiralX because of the 75% letoff but its about the same. I would love to test those pegs and see how they work!


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## spike camp

Is the 1/4" area adjustable to contact the cable squarely?
Are the Binary stops covered with shrink tube?


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## Ray knight

spike camp said:


> Is the 1/4" area adjustable to contact the cable squarely?
> Are the Binary stops covered with shrink tube?


What 1/4" area are you referring to? Hoyt's stop pegs are rubber.


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## kc hay seed

ray; i have a 2010 matrix with z-3 cams on it now.how would you compare the rkt cams to the z-3s? i have lost about 10 lbs with the z-3 cams and if the rkt are as smooth i could get my poundage back. if not i have the 60/70lbs limbs to go on my bow.if i went with the rkt cams what string and cables would i need? thanks in advance


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## Ray knight

kc hay seed said:


> ray; i have a 2010 matrix with z-3 cams on it now.how would you compare the rkt cams to the z-3s? i have lost about 10 lbs with the z-3 cams and if the rkt are as smooth i could get my poundage back. if not i have the 60/70lbs limbs to go on my bow.if i went with the rkt cams what string and cables would i need? thanks in advance


RKT is easier to draw than the Z3. No question. You WILL gain some weight. Quite a bit actually. What draw length do you need?


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## triumph

Great post Ray. As I have said after thinking about this for some time I finally had it done to my 011 AE. I was lucky to find someone selling silver RKT cams on this site. Black are easy silver took a while. The same guy makes custom strings( Threadz custom strings.) He himself has done the switch over. So this was a win win deal. He made me strings along with cables and that was all I needed. My bow tech at home installed it all. He himself was amazed. The draw is a lot smoother the valley is better and I also picked up 5lbs which I had to turn down. So all in all I have a new bow. I also have an 012 Element with the same Rkt cams. So with all the pro and cons mostly from Hoyt this can be done. And I feel the 240.00 complete was well worth it.


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## bill1566

I would really like to get it done to my maxxis 35 and i was just at the bow shop today and when i see a tech haveing problems with a new evo not being able to get the cam lean out and to be able to paper tune it i worry about buying the cams and takeing my bow there to have them work on it. Does anyone know someone close to western kentucky that i could send my bow to and have this done to it??? Ray you seem to really have alot of knowledge and i would be willing to send it to you after the season and pay you what ever shop rate is to have it done. My good friend would be the only one around here that i would let do it because of his knowledge but he kind of got out of makeing strings and sold all of his equipment for working on bows. I figure on paying someone to do it because by the time i bought a press and all it would be the price of a new bow and i really enjoy shooting what i have just would like it to perform to its limits.


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## DavidBLingo

Ray knight said:


> NO. XTR and Fuel mods are the same (xr mods). RKT mods are unique to the RKT.


Thanks for the help. That's what I needed to know.


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## falconsgolie29

when buying the cams do you orderthe same as what cam you currenlty have or is it different?


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## Ray knight

falconsgolie29 said:


> when buying the cams do you orderthe same as what cam you currenlty have or is it different?


if you have #3 XTR cams with C mods you order #3 RKT cams with C mods. You have #2 Fuel cams with E mods order #2 RKT cams with E mods. Simple as that. Same numbers.


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## spike camp

Ray knight said:


> What 1/4" area are you referring to? Hoyt's stop pegs are rubber.





dwagoner said:


> Ray ima throw something into your testing mix, ever hear of bomar draw stop pegs??? i have some myself in both sizes for hoyts, i think you may wanna try them out to see how you like the change they do for the wall. There not a round post like stock but a machined piece thats bout 1/4" flat that gives you a more positive stop and back wall, there $13 ea and i got both sizes (like larger and smaller round stock hoyts) for $25 for both. my buddy has on his bowtech and WOW its like a concrete wall at full draw, there nice!!! since its hunting season i havent got to play with mine but i fell thell do pretty well, check em out if you havent before





spike camp said:


> Is the 1/4" area adjustable to contact the cable squarely?
> Are the Binary stops covered with shrink tube?



I may be mistaken,but dwagoner description sounds like the Bomar stop has a flat side.
BTW- I didnt mean Binary in the above post...dang auto correct!


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## Ray knight

spike camp said:


> I may be mistaken,but dwagoner description sounds like the Bomar stop has a flat side.
> BTW- I didnt mean Binary in the above post...dang auto correct!


I looked those up but only found them for PSE. They do have a flat spot instead of a round post. So they would make the wall rock solid for sure.


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## kc hay seed

Ray knight said:


> RKT is easier to draw than the Z3. No question. You WILL gain some weight. Quite a bit actually. What draw length do you need?


i only pull 27" and with the z3s maxed out i am at 50 lbs.


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## Reverend

Couldn't wait untiln hoyt introduced theri new lineup SO... I went ahead and ordered a set of the RKT'S. I already have a CC that is 1/8 in. longer and a BC that is 1/8 in. shorter. Can't wait.

BTW Ray, since the strings on the RKT bows come with speed nocks, and the Fuel Cam bows don't, do you have a suggestion (or measurement) for putting these on?


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## Ray knight

Reverend said:


> Couldn't wait untiln hoyt introduced theri new lineup SO... I went ahead and ordered a set of the RKT'S. I already have a CC that is 1/8 in. longer and a BC that is 1/8 in. shorter. Can't wait.
> 
> BTW Ray, since the strings on the RKT bows come with speed nocks, and the Fuel Cam bows don't, do you have a suggestion (or measurement) for putting these on?


I like them close to the cams with RKTs. About 2" seems to pick up the most speed but i suggest install them snug at first but just loose enough that you can move them. Take 5 shots through the chrono at 2" from the cams, 5 shots through the chrono at 4" from the cams. You will see which direction to go next. Just tweak until you pick up the most speed. I like to shoot bare shafts through the chrono when tuning so wind does not have effect on speed as much. You get closer readings and its easier to see what works best.


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## Ray knight

Picked up 4 more sets of RKT cams today. I am putting a set on my Contender Elite just to see what happens


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## Buster of Xs

Ray knight said:


> Picked up 4 more sets of RKT cams today. I am putting a set on my Contender Elite just to see what happens


Put some XT1000s on there while you're at it. Talk about fast.....:lol:


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## Ray knight

Buster of Xs said:


> Put some XT1000s on there while you're at it. Talk about fast.....:lol:


Thats a great idea. It would be smoking fast. DL would end up too short for me. XT2000 is just right with #6 GTX on E position. 30.5".


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## Rolexdr

Nice Ray

We may need to chat some more


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## rockles

You know Ray, you are one sick individual. That work bench is way to clean. Thanks for a great thread.


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## shadowfox21

Would going from a #3 fuel cam to a #2rkt cam change my string of cable lengths?


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## Ray knight

shadowfox21 said:


> Would going from a #3 fuel cam to a #2rkt cam change my string of cable lengths?


Yes, all lengths will change. Use the Fuel #2 numbers and add 1/8" to the control and subtract 1/8" from the buss.


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## primal-archery

I have to mark this. It's just to good not to.


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## WithoutWarning

primal-archery said:


> I have to mark this. It's just to good not to.


Yup, me too.
This is something I'll want to come back to.


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## longbeard02

in for info.. great post


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## spike camp

Just did a redo on a 2011 Element with #2 cam's because of installing lower poundage limbs for my GF.
I used Ray's suggested cable lengths and they worked out great!
Dl was spot on...poundage was where we needed it.
Specs are:
2011 Element
#2 Rkt (b mod for 26.5")
56 deflection limbs
54# Max DW
26 5/8 Dl
265 GPS w/ 327 grain arrow.


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## Ray knight

spike camp said:


> Just did a redo on a 2011 Element with #2 cam's because of installing lower poundage limbs for my GF.
> I used Ray's suggested cable lengths and they worked out great!
> Dl was spot on...poundage was where we needed it.
> Specs are:
> 2011 Element
> #2 Rkt (b mod for 26.5")
> 56 deflection limbs
> 54# Max DW
> 26 5/8 Dl
> 265 GPS w/ 327 grain arrow.


I am glad it worked out bud!! How does she like the RKT?


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## kc hay seed

hey ray; with my 27" draw and installing the rkt cams, what would you suggest my string and cables would be? the bow is a 2010 matrix at 50 lbs right now with the z-3 cams and i want to get back to the 50/60 lbs i had before . thanks in advance.


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## dwagoner

kc hay seed said:


> hey ray; with my 27" draw and installing the rkt cams, what would you suggest my string and cables would be? the bow is a 2010 matrix at 50 lbs right now with the z-3 cams and i want to get back to the 50/60 lbs i had before . thanks in advance.


KC didnt you have to get 70#original limbs to make those Z3s or did you stay with your 60# limbs when you did the conversion??? Im pretty sure stock 60# are 74def and 70# 84def on the matrix.


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## Ray knight

From Z3 to RKT should gain i think around 13-16#.


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## kc hay seed

dwagoner said:


> KC didnt you have to get 70#original limbs to make those Z3s or did you stay with your 60# limbs when you did the conversion??? Im pretty sure stock 60# are 74def and 70# 84def on the matrix.


i stayed with my 60 lb limbs limbs but i have the 60/70 lb limbs to change it.i just thought if i installed the rkt cams it would bring me back to specs,without changing limbs.


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## Ray knight

kc hay seed said:


> i stayed with my 60 lb limbs limbs but i have the 60/70 lb limbs to change it.i just thought if i installed the rkt cams it would bring me back to specs,without changing limbs.


So you will be around 66# with RKT cams and 60# with XTR or Fuel.


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## Glenredhawk

Sent ya a PM!


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## emaw1174

This might sound crazy to some...but would this mod also work the same on the Turbo Hawk? XTR cams and same limbs as the AM, right?

I've really enjoyed this thread...thanks, Ray.


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## Ray knight

emaw1174 said:


> This might sound crazy to some...but would this mod also work the same on the Turbo Hawk? XTR cams and same limbs as the AM, right?
> 
> I've really enjoyed this thread...thanks, Ray.


RKT Turbohawk why not? Sure it would work!


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## Skeeter 58

Subscribed.


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## tecmic

My introduction to modern compounds a few weeks ago was with a 2010 Carbon Matrix demo. The retailer updated it with RKT cams and it's very nice piece of kit.









Mike.


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## kdog23

this is great. I for one have had my arm torn off a few times by the fuel cam, other than that I love every aspect of my CRX. I dont have a bow press and am still running stock strings.


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## Standbanger

I mentioned this to the shop I bought my Hoyt from and was told they could not get RKT cams from Hoyt. In addition the fellow thought I lost my mind and quickly pointed out if I did the swap it would void the warranty.


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## Buster of Xs

Standbanger said:


> I mentioned this to the shop I bought my Hoyt from and was told they could not get RKT cams from Hoyt. In addition the fellow thought I lost my mind and quickly pointed out if I did the swap it would void the warranty.


In my personal, as well as long term, experience with Hoyt you won't have to worry about a darned warranty. :wink:


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## Standbanger

Buster of Xs said:


> In my personal, as well as long term, experience with Hoyt you won't have to worry about a darned warranty. :wink:


I am with you on this. Pretty much bullet proof.


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## tecmic

Fitting RKT no.3 cams to my Carbon matrix 50lb with no other changes, has increased peak draw to 56lbs!


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## bbentley392t

SUBSCRIBED!!! Looking to install the RKT cam on my 2011 Matrix, I'm sure you'll be getting a PM later down the road... :wink:


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## TNMAN

Ray knight said:


> Picked up 4 more sets of RKT cams today. I am putting a set on my Contender Elite just to see what happens


What happened???


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## bbentley392t

Ray knight said:


> Picked up 4 more sets of RKT cams today. I am putting a set on my Contender Elite just to see what happens


Any chance you wanna sell just 1 of those sets, preferably #3...??? :drool:


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## Ray knight

TNMAN said:


> What happened???


Got busy building a bunch of other bows and have not got to this one yet!


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## Ray knight

Working on a Maitlan Zues next. Hoyt cams


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## dwagoner

Ray knight said:


> Working on a Maitlan Zues next. Hoyt cams


CMONNNNN dont share the hoyt stuff with others.......no crossdressing......


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## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> CMONNNNN dont share the hoyt stuff with others.......no crossdressing......


Haha thats funny man. Actually i have the Maitland shooting so straight i am not sure i want to mess with it. I may hold off a bit. The VTR cam feels eerily similar to the Hoyt GTX cam which i like. It just does not have that defined valley like the RKT. Shoots amazing though. The riser is about 3x longer than i expected it to be. Its HUGE!! But, it will get modified sooner or later


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## FUDS

What string set would I use to put RKT cams on a Rampage xt?

Another thing, I have fuels #3 and want to go to RKT #2
WOuld I just get some new rampage xt fuel #2 strings to go with the #2 RKT cams?


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## Ray knight

FUDS said:


> What string set would I use to put RKT cams on a Rampage xt?
> 
> Another thing, I have fuels #3 and want to go to RKT #2
> WOuld I just get some new rampage xt fuel #2 strings to go with the #2 RKT cams?


If you go from #3 fuel to #2 RKT, use the tune charts for the #2 fuel cam and add 1/8" to your control cable and take 1/8" off the buss cable. This should be dead on.


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## SHEGGE

subscribed


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## Ray knight

Also, i got a LOT of speed out of my 2 Carbon Matrix(s) by using the #2 RKT cam, E mods, and a longer string so at rest, the clearance between the string a d the control cable loops is only about 2mm. So the cam is rotating more than its supposed to. It actually works really well. The long draw limbs (XT1000) extend the brace height to 7.5" an the faster #2 cam keeps the DL at 30.5". 65# shooting a 348 grain arrow at 328fps is pretty darn fast for a Matrix! Especially given the longer 7.5" brace. I made 3 sets of strings before i got it where i wanted it but its faster at 30.5" than it was at 32" with the #3 RKT.


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## Skeeter 58

Ray knight said:


> Also, i got a LOT of speed out of my 2 Carbon Matrix(s) by using the #2 RKT cam, E mods, and a longer string so at rest, the clearance between the string a d the control cable loops is only about 2mm. So the cam is rotating more than its supposed to. It actually works really well. The long draw limbs (XT1000) extend the brace height to 7.5" an the faster #2 cam keeps the DL at 30.5". 65# shooting a 348 grain arrow at 328fps is pretty darn fast for a Matrix! Especially given the longer 7.5" brace. I made 3 sets of strings before i got it where i wanted it but its faster at 30.5" than it was at 32" with the #3 RKT.


Interesting. I like what I'm reading here. Definitely going to keep all of this in mind for after season. 

Skeet.


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## shadowfox21

Just got done e with the cam swap on my Rampage XT. Gained 3# in draw wieght an extra 7fps and an incredible draw cycle. Thinking about addimg some speed nocks to see if I can gain just a few more fps.


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## bcbow1971

Great info


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## Ray knight

shadowfox21 said:


> Just got done e with the cam swap on my Rampage XT. Gained 3# in draw wieght an extra 7fps and an incredible draw cycle. Thinking about addimg some speed nocks to see if I can gain just a few more fps.


Put 5 brass nocks 2.5" from each cam. You should get 4-5 more fps. Time the top cam just a hair fast.


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## Ray knight

Be sure to re-adjust the string suppressor as well.


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## montigre

All this talk is getting me excited to throw a set of #1s on one of my Alpha Elites... The other AE will be sporting a shiny set of spirals :wink:


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## bcycle

Great thread Ray!


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## shadowfox21

With some speed nocks and some fine tuning I went from 63.8# and 285fps with a 368 grain arrow to 68# and 300fps. I cant be more happy with the cam swap


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## IL 88

Great thread


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## IL 88

Seeing that you put them on a set of xt1000's got me interested...

What deflection were those Ray?


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## Ray knight

IL 88 said:


> Seeing that you put them on a set of xt1000's got me interested...
> 
> What deflection were those Ray?


Never bothered to look at the deflection as they were ordered as long draws, they come with #3 cams at 32". I cannot see the deflection in those pockets the writing is buried! One is 55# and the other is 70#. I swapped the #2 cams to get my 30.5" DL and did custom size cables to max the cam rotation.

Looks like this at rest!


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## flinginairos

Very interesting!! I have an 09' TurboHawk with the XTR cams. I love the bow but my only gripe is the very short valley. It gets away from me on days when I am tired and not focused on pulling hard into the wall. I might look into getting an RKT set for it!


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## NRA republican

Anyone done a RKT cam swap on a Maxxis 35? Speed difference?
I'm already getting 330 fps IBO with the XTR cams. Are the RKT cams faster than this?
MAXXIS 35, #2 xtr cam, 70lb, 29" DL: 320 fps with 350 grain arrow, 289 fps with 29” Axis 400 shaft Blazer vanes, 125 grain point--- with 3 speed nocks each end (centered 2 ½“ from bottom cam, 2 3/8“ from top cam), stock string/cable, Limbsaver string silencer centered 5 ¼” from bottom cam, G5 peep, d-loop.


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## Ray knight

NRA republican said:


> Anyone done a RKT cam swap on a Maxxis 35? Speed difference?
> I'm already getting 330 fps IBO with the XTR cams. Are the RKT cams faster than this?
> MAXXIS 35, #2 xtr cam, 70lb, 29" DL: 320 fps with 350 grain arrow, 289 fps with 29” Axis 400 shaft Blazer vanes, 125 grain point--- with 3 speed nocks each end (centered 2 ½“ from bottom cam, 2 3/8“ from top cam), stock string/cable, Limbsaver string silencer centered 5 ¼” from bottom cam, G5 peep, d-loop.


Yes you will gain 5-6# and a very notable increase in speed with the RKT. I would add more speed nocks as well. 5 at each end. You can use the same strings just start with an extra 2.5 twists in the Buss and take 3 out of the control. I did spiralx cams on my Maxxis35 but did RKTs on my AM35s.


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## SHEGGE

Ray-
I am ready to make the change. I have a 2011 element. I want to do the RKT cam swap. So can I use my 2011 string set? or would it be best to change to the 2012 lengths? The reason being is I am also looking at getting new string set made anyway in the near future as my 2011 are getting frayed.
Thanks Steve
27 inch
60 lbs


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## Ray knight

SHEGGE said:


> Ray-
> I am ready to make the change. I have a 2011 element. I want to do the RKT cam swap. So can I use my 2011 string set? or would it be best to change to the 2012 lengths? The reason being is I am also looking at getting new string set made anyway in the near future as my 2011 are getting frayed.
> Thanks Steve
> 27 inch
> 60 lbs


If you need strings anyways just use the 2012 lengths.


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## Ezbagr

Ray, I have a contender Elite with xt2000 limbs on it and currently have cam and a half plus on it. Could I put RTK`s and if so what would you suggest to use for string-cable lengths?
I need it to be a 29 inch draw.


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## Ray knight

Ezbagr said:


> Ray, I have a contender Elite with xt2000 limbs on it and currently have cam and a half plus on it. Could I put RTK`s and if so what would you suggest to use for string-cable lengths?
> I need it to be a 29 inch draw.


It will take some work but yes it can be done. I have yet to do mine as i am liking the GTX cam on that one and i only use that bow for spots so more speed is not important. If i also used it for 3D, i would have done it already, but i do have other bows for 3d. I would be happy to try it! The only thing i worry about on the Contender/Contender Elite is the lack of string stop but it should work fine. It would be really fast too! 

Here is the recipe:
58 1/8" String
42 3/8" Control
40 1/8 Buss
RKT#2 and D mods

SHOULD, get you the following:
38.25" ATA
6 7/8" brace
29" DL
+20# draw weight. 
Just a guess based on what i have seen with the RKT Hybrids would be about +30fps IBO over the cam.5+. That means with the same arrow, at the same weight, i think the RKT would be 30fps faster than the cam.5+.
Draw cycle would be about the same. Valley would be about the same, wall would be WAY harder. You would have a ROCKET 3d machine for sure.


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## kdog23

my local shop ( that is willing to help me as I do not have a press i snot a hoyt dealer. where can I find the cams? or who should I work with?


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## kdog23

kdog23 said:


> my local shop ( that is willing to help me as I do not have a press i snot a hoyt dealer. where can I find the cams? or who should I work with?


nevermind another shop that is a dealer tells me they will do the swap for just the cost of the cams ($100.00) unless my strings are freyed and then they will do the strings for 100, so it will either be 100 or 200. a good deal to me since the new hoyt does not seem to give me any advantage over what I have now outside of the better valley and draw on the RKT. now I just need to convice my wife once hunt season is over.....


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## Fdale's Finest

utaharcher said:


> Sweet, So unlike the Z3 conversions you do not need new limbs to keep the poundage the same? I have a 2012 Rampage XT with the Fuel cams. So i could do this RKT conversion and increase my poundage just a bit but have a better valley? ( I have 65lb. limbs) Thanks. Also how much do the cams cost?


Does the z3 increase or decrease the draw weight?


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## Ray knight

Fdale's Finest said:


> Does the z3 increase or decrease the draw weight?


Z3 will decrease the weight. They are very similar to SpiralX cams.


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## LetThemGrow

Ray;

How much do Z3 cams decrease draw weight? I have an '11 Element 60#; what Z3 cam would I need for 24" or 24.5" for wife? Is this a realistic project?

Thanks...


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## Fdale's Finest

Ray knight said:


> Z3 will decrease the weight. They are very similar to SpiralX cams.


Any idea how much less? I have a friend who has a turbo hawk that when he bought it he thought was a 50-60 pound and it turns out it is a 60-70 and at the same time he was looking at the Katera and loved the draw cycle of the Z3 cam but liked the price of the turbo hawk more...

On a side note I am shooting a 737 and thinking about swapping to xt 2000's and spiral and would like 55-65 pounds...I am currently shooitng the cam an d 1/2 plus at 72 with a 385 grain arrow at 304 so I am shooting slighly more than IBO when you do the math.

If I switched to the spiral would I gain any speed or just shoot a bow with a more solid wall and smoother with less let off. and eafter reading this would the RKT cams be an option and if so would I need to change limbs alo and if so do you know what I would need to 29.5 draw and 55-70 pound peaks?


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## blues2

I'm interested, have a 2011 CRX & my only complaint is shooting too long at some point that bow will try and yank your arm off if you get sloppy, same if you change your mind on sending an arrow and HANG ON, that bow wants to go.


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## dwagoner

flinginairos said:


> Very interesting!! I have an 09' TurboHawk with the XTR cams. I love the bow but my only gripe is the very short valley. It gets away from me on days when I am tired and not focused on pulling hard into the wall. I might look into getting an RKT set for it!


you should do some fine tuning to the cams, when setup right i dont have a problem with xtr on my matrix or the fuels i have on my maxxis35 either. im sure a little playing with them and you can change that a bit.


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## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> you should do some fine tuning to the cams, when setup right i dont have a problem with xtr on my matrix or the fuels i have on my maxxis35 either. im sure a little playing with them and you can change that a bit.


XTR is actually a very nice cam. Takes some fine tuning yes but once set up they draw and shoot really nice.


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## Glenredhawk

Hey Ray- I finished my AM35 conversion last night. I was gonna send you my bow but I thought I would try it! I put RKT #2 cams on it set it at 50lbs and 28" draw. I cannot believe how much smoother the draw is over the XTR cams. Picked up 5lbs, so the bow maxs. about 55lbs from 50lbs. and the speed picked up about 6fps. Bow shoots 286 thru the chrono at 50lbs. I have Vapor Trail strings on it and your timing was real close also. Thanks for posting the thread. It saved me buying a new bow this year. I'm gonna keep this AM35 it's one sweet shooter. My wife thanks you also! (helped the pocketbook). LOL Keep up your great work and look forward to any new ideas you have.


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## Ray knight

Glenredhawk said:


> Hey Ray- I finished my AM35 conversion last night. I was gonna send you my bow but I thought I would try it! I put RKT #2 cams on it set it at 50lbs and 28" draw. I cannot believe how much smoother the draw is over the XTR cams. Picked up 5lbs, so the bow maxs. about 55lbs from 50lbs. and the speed picked up about 6fps. Bow shoots 286 thru the chrono at 50lbs. I have Vapor Trail strings on it and your timing was real close also. Thanks for posting the thread. It saved me buying a new bow this year. I'm gonna keep this AM35 it's one sweet shooter. My wife thanks you also! (helped the pocketbook). LOL Keep up your great work and look forward to any new ideas you have.


Nice!! I am glad it worked out for you! The AM35 is one sweet shooting bow with RKT cams!! I decided to put one of mine for sale since i built them both exactly the same. Otherwise, i will keep the one of them for a long time i am sure.


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## Old Slick

Ray, could you put spirals on a original matrix


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## Ray knight

Old Slick said:


> Ray, could you put spirals on a original matrix


Absolutely you can! You will drop about 14# though so you may want higher limb deflection.


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## Old Slick

Which cam would you choose? I'm not really worried about the poundage because I am already shooting a 80# bow.


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## Old Slick

Old Slick said:


> Which cam would you choose? I'm not really worried about the poundage because I am already shooting a 80# bow.


Would I still need different limbs with the 80's?


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## Ray knight

Old Slick said:


> Would I still need different limbs with the 80's?


No you dont need new limbs unless you want it to still max at 80#. If its 80# and you swap to RKT you should max around 86#.


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## Apache

I once did a Z3 swap on a Trykon XL and it was great shooter, now I'm curious what the RKTs would do on my Maxxis 31 ...

Any idea what RKT cam size for a Maxxis 31, 30" draw? I'm thinking RKT #3 but what module position, "E"?


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## Chris Bolander

Think I might want to do this to my 2011 CRX 32 :wink: Wonder If i can add the new Airshox to it also??


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## wdriver

Anyone do this to a CRX 35 yet? How much poundage would it add? I'd like to try this conversion on my CRX 35.


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## axeforce6

I have #3 RKT's for sale)


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## Chris Bolander

axeforce6 said:


> I have #3 RKT's for sale)


Too bad you dont have #2's haha


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## axeforce6

Chris Bolander said:


> Too bad you dont have #2's haha


Sorry. Lol


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## Ray knight

axeforce6 said:


> I have #3 RKT's for sale)


Black or silver? I can use a black set.


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## Ray knight

wdriver said:


> Anyone do this to a CRX 35 yet? How much poundage would it add? I'd like to try this conversion on my CRX 35.


You should gain 6#


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## Ray knight

Chris Bolander said:


> Think I might want to do this to my 2011 CRX 32 :wink: Wonder If i can add the new Airshox to it also??


I doubt the Airshocks will mount to your riser but i have not seen them yet so there might be a way. Doubt it though.


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## wdriver

Ray knight said:


> You should gain 6#


Ah, ok. Maybe a limb swap as well. I figure it should put the IBO at around 325 - 330 on my CRX with RKT cams.


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## axeforce6

Ray knight said:


> Black or silver? I can use a black set.


They are black ray.


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## snort wheeze

great thread


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## wdriver

Not to be obtuse, but if I understand correctly, to convert my CRX 35(#2 cam) to a RKT (#2) cam, I would need to add 1/8" to the control cable and reduce the buss cable 1/8"? Leave the string length the same?


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## Dale Knight

PM sent
Thanks
Dale Knight


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## buckman2591

I could use a #2 base rh silver rkt set!!!


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## mudslinger64

Subscribed


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## Ray knight

wdriver said:


> Not to be obtuse, but if I understand correctly, to convert my CRX 35(#2 cam) to a RKT (#2) cam, I would need to add 1/8" to the control cable and reduce the buss cable 1/8"? Leave the string length the same?


Correct!


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## hoyt em all

i bought a set of rkt #2 cams for my trykon xl. i like those cams on my 2012 matrix, so why not. both bows are 35'' ATA (within 1/16'' on tuning chart, trykon xl 28" fixed DL cam) the trykon xl has a 3/4" longer BH when turned down to 60# were i had it set. the #2 rkt cams i bought for the trykon xl have c mods (27.5") my DL 28.5". i installed the cams with the stock RKT matrix strings and the ATA was 3/16" shorter-draw weight went from 60# to 68.4# ,DL went from 28 1/8 to 29 1/16 , so i made a set of strings 3/8 longer and the ATA went back to were it was, but the draw weight was 63# (trykon xl 60-70# bow ) and with the limbs bottomed out 76.3#. DL 29". and that is were i am now. when i get some time i'll get b mods and make longer strings, how much longer i'm not sure yet. one excuse for buying a new bow was to step down to a 50-60 # bow and those RKT cams are much better than the zephyr cams . i'm thinking 7/8-1" longer then checking DW and DL again .


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## mudslinger64

So would this swap work on a 2011 alphaburner?


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## LetThemGrow

Be interesting to see the differences with the new RKT cam vs existing RKT.


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## buckman2591

mudslinger64 said:


> So would this swap work on a 2011 alphaburner?


Why would you want rkt cams on a burner when it already comes with some killer wheels!


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## aulee42

I have a 06 trykon at 28" i bought a set of #2 fuel cams looking to get my DL to around 27.5 maybe a little lower. Anybody try this yet swap yet?


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## Ray knight

buckman2591 said:


> Why would you want rkt cams on a burner when it already comes with some killer wheels!


Higher IBO speed but..... A 20# weight gain is certain. I have done fuels on an Alphaburner and it was pretty impressive to say the least!


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## BuckswithBows

Hmmm interesting. Anyone due there maxxis 31 yet? I'm in the market for a new bow for next year and this swap may change my mind.


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## Reverend

Hey Ray. 
Do you happen to have a draw force curve mapper?
I'd love to see the differecne in draw force curves between a Fuel, RKT, and Spiral X


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## Buster of Xs

aulee42 said:


> I have a 06 trykon at 28" i bought a set of #2 fuel cams looking to get my DL to around 27.5 maybe a little lower. Anybody try this yet swap yet?


Member "tunaboy" put XTR cams on his Trykon XL and he loves it. It maintained the DW that it had with the Zephyr cams, too, so you should see a bit of an increase as noted in this thread. It should be a great mod for a Trykon.


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## GWFH

FYI......

Found this last night and figured this would be a good place to tuck the info.
I was swapping things around between an '11 and'12 AE and noticed the pockets are different.
Appears the slot between the limbs (and plastic spacers) are different between the anodized'11 and the blackout '12.I was surprised knowing how most else is the same. Anyone know why they switched?
They still interchanged but the spacers have to move with the pockets. All else looked in order but Im not done with the setup.


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## Ray knight

GWFH said:


> FYI......
> 
> Found this last night and figured this would be a good place to tuck the info.
> I was swapping things around between an '11 and'12 AE and noticed the pockets are different.
> Appears the slot between the limbs (and plastic spacers) are different between the anodized'11 and the blackout '12.I was surprised knowing how most else is the same. Anyone know why they switched?
> They still interchanged but the spacers have to move with the pockets. All else looked in order but Im not done with the setup.


Thats interesting! I wonder why its different. Mine is a 2011 with 2012 limbs and RKTs.


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## Ray knight

LetThemGrow said:


> Be interesting to see the differences with the new RKT cam vs existing RKT.


For sure! I have not even seen the new ones yet. I doubt they are faster but from what i hear, they are more rounded and a bit smoother. I want to try them and see.


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## cheyv74

This sounds like something i am very intrested in. I have CRX 35 that i really like except for the last bit of valley and the wall. Sounds like this would take care of that. I have a 28.5 dl @ 60.6#s. Have you done one of these or similar? If so what did you gain in speed and dw?


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## Chris Bolander

The "new" rkt is only on the spyder 30. Due to the shorter ata.. the rkt's in the CE and others is the same as last year. So my concern for the new slight larger cam would be loss of dl..


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## hoyt em all

Chris Bolander said:


> The "new" rkt is only on the spyder 30. Due to the shorter ata.. the rkt's in the CE and others is the same as last year. So my concern for the new slight larger cam would be loss of dl..


i wonder if that will stop people from trying it on other bows,lol


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## bambikiller

subscribed


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## Chris Bolander

hoyt em all said:


> i wonder if that will stop people from trying it on other bows,lol


I wasn't saying to stop people, I was just meaning the new cam will probly take more tweaking..


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## kiwibowpro

Can I safely assume that the 2012 RKT draw length modules will fit the 2013 RKT cams ??? Anone know for sure ??


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## Chris Bolander

My understanding is the modules are the same...


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## Ray knight

I hear they fit but have not confirmed it myself.


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## MAB77

Ray, thanks for the post, why does the rkt with c mod =30'' on the vector 35, and rkt with c mod = 29'' on the turbo, the only diff in tune charts is 1/4'' in string lenght, how does that work?


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## Cdpkook132

MAB77 said:


> Ray, thanks for the post, why does the rkt with c mod =30'' on the vector 35, and rkt with c mod = 29'' on the turbo, the only diff in tune charts is 1/4'' in string lenght, how does that work?


Becuase the turbo has a more reflexed riser to bring the brace height in an inch.


Sent from my Verizon iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ray knight

Cdpkook132 said:


> Becuase the turbo has a more reflexed riser to bring the brace height in an inch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon iPhone using Tapatalk


This


----------



## bcbow1971

Did a conversion of a CRX 32 that had Fuel Cams to RKT and yeah way better feeling setup. It was short valley and now smoother and more valley and faster. Haven't run through chrono but you can hear the speed, of course I did gain 6 pounds of DW and DL is spot on. 

All details and how to posted on this thread is spot on an Ray is quick to reply for any questions. Hoyt did say that I would need new limbs and limb pockets but I think that is over cautious. 

I got a Trophy string set from Ray and they are top quality and he presided the strings and cables so I didn't have to do anything but twist one a tad to get it timed. 

All in all I would say that the bow is 200% better than it was and the customer will be happy.


----------



## bcbow1971

Sorry duplicate post


----------



## panfry

Am going to do this swap. If anybody knows of some cams for sale let me know. Thanks. 



Sent from my IPhone


----------



## Reverend

Well I finally got my #2 RKT cams in, and I made the swap last night on my 2011 Carbon Element. 
I followed Ray's instructions on twisting and untwisting... and it was spot on. 

The cam is just plain nice. It holds very well. The conversion raised the peak weight about 4 pounds, which to me is not a bad thing. I did notice a little more vibration, but I'm not sure it's the cam. I opted to remove the string leeches in favor of the speed nocks. I placed the nocks in the same location that the 2012 RKT bows came in. I would expect that this is the source of the added vibration? Additionally, since I had to remove almost all the twists from my Control Cable, I would think that this adds a little to the felt vibration. However, once I put my stabilizers on, the vibration all but disappeared. 

As far as speed, I'm not sure if I have a net gain, but will report my findings once I can shoot it through the chrony. Until then, I'm off to run it through "Nuts & Bolts" kitchen sink tuning method...


----------



## buckman2591

Anyone got a set of silver rkt #2's for sale??!?!?????


----------



## Guest

Do you use 2012 cams or can you use the 2013 cams or they the same cams and has anyone try the new cams


----------



## Reverend

Hoyt probably will not be selling any of the new 2013 RKT's for awhile.


----------



## hoyt em all

panfry said:


> Am going to do this swap. If anybody knows of some cams for sale let me know. Thanks.
> 
> $110+ tax from my nearist hoyt shop (GR MI) sooo ,not sure you will find them cheeper here


----------



## wdriver

bcbow1971 said:


> Did a conversion of a CRX 32 that had Fuel Cams to RKT and yeah way better feeling setup. It was short valley and now smoother and more valley and faster. Haven't run through chrono but you can hear the speed, of course I did gain 6 pounds of DW and DL is spot on.
> 
> All details and how to posted on this thread is spot on an Ray is quick to reply for any questions. Hoyt did say that I would need new limbs and limb pockets but I think that is over cautious.
> 
> I got a Trophy string set from Ray and they are top quality and he presided the strings and cables so I didn't have to do anything but twist one a tad to get it timed.
> 
> All in all I would say that the bow is 200% better than it was and the customer will be happy.


Why did Hoyt say you need new pockets?

Are any (or all) of the 2012 RKT cams black?


----------



## buckman2591

Wd, no they have both silver and black


----------



## wdriver

buckman2591 said:


> Wd, no they have both silver and black


Cool. I've heard that the mods were not black on the 2012 bows. I'm saving up to do this conversion on my CRX35. The local shop who sells Hoyt told me $125 for a set of RKT cams, and *$300* for a set of limbs. Probably be a good time for new strings too.


----------



## bambikiller

from the research i have done recently tht is a tad high price range


wdriver said:


> Cool. I've heard that the mods were not black on the 2012 bows. I'm saving up to do this conversion on my CRX35. The local shop who sells Hoyt told me $125 for a set of RKT cams, and *$300* for a set of limbs. Probably be a good time for new strings too.


----------



## Reverend

Got to chrony my conversion tonight and all I can say is, "WOW!" 
63# Carbon Element
27.5 in. DL
356 gr. arrow
294 fps! 

As I ran these numbers to convert it into actual IBO speed, I thought, "Wait a minute, this can't be right. This translates into 369 IBO!"
So I'm going to need someone's help on calculating approximate IBO, since I may be using an old outdated formula...

Also the chrony is a stabilizer mounted RadarChron Arrowspeed. I know its not the most accurate chrony out there, but it gave me a 5-arrow reading of 292, 297, 290, 296, and 296. Someone help!


----------



## spike camp

Im coming up with 338 IBO with a bare string based of of the 2011 323 speed rating....


----------



## wdriver

I came up with an equivalent of 340 IBO.


----------



## Reverend

If I make my calculations using a bare string, I get similar. But my string has 3 speed nocks at 29 grains each, G5 Meta peep, loop, and serving. Total weight 97 grains...

Either way... 338-340 IBO is smoking!


----------



## bcbow1971

wdriver said:


> Why did Hoyt say you need new pockets?


That is what the guy that was buying the cams that owned the bow. I think he may have been misunderstood or hoyt didn't like the hybrid conversion.


----------



## Ray knight

If you notice a little bit more vibration with the RKT after converting form XTR or Fuel its because the limbs are actually moving more. Its kind of like adding an inch to your DL. Moving the limbs further. Be sure to adjust your string stop as well! it should just BARELY touch the string at rest. It should not be pressed against it. I have done a few swaps where i had to remove the string stop and shave a few mm off the front of the carbon rod to get it in further.


----------



## ndlawrence

Can someone post pictures of the proper cam spacing(washers/spacers) on a hoyt crx35? its got the fuel cams if that makes a difference. That would be awesome!


----------



## ndlawrence

ndlawrence said:


> Can someone post pictures of the proper cam spacing(washers/spacers) on a hoyt crx35? its got the fuel cams if that makes a difference. That would be awesome!


Bump! Really need this info


----------



## bcbow1971

ndlawrence said:


> Bump! Really need this info


I believe Ray said the Spacers are the same as the fuel, the one I did (CRX32) kept spacers the same and worked great.


----------



## ndlawrence

bcbow1971 said:


> I believe Ray said the Spacers are the same as the fuel, the one I did (CRX32) kept spacers the same and worked great.


Right, but this bow I'm working on is missing the spacers, so I need to know where to put the new one in


----------



## Ray knight

Spacers on the top should be equal size. Lowershould be small spacer on the left (string side).


----------



## ndlawrence

Ray knight said:


> Spacers on the top should be equal size. Lowershould be small spacer on the left (string side).


Thanks! Whoever had this bow before me left spacers out when they changed cams apparently, I have a pile of cam spacers so hopefully I can find some that fit


----------



## Ray knight

ndlawrence said:


> Thanks! Whoever had this bow before me left spacers out when they changed cams apparently, I have a pile of cam spacers so hopefully I can find some that fit


If you need any shims let me know.


----------



## Ray knight

ndlawrence said:


> Thanks! Whoever had this bow before me left spacers out when they changed cams apparently, I have a pile of cam spacers so hopefully I can find some that fit


If you need any shims let me know.


----------



## MAB77

just bought a used alphamax 35 to do a conversion. I was looking for a #3 cam 30'' draw 60 lb, the one I bought was a #2 cam 28'' draw 60 lb. question is are limbs the same on both, when I go with the rkt #3 and new strings and cables will I end up with 65 lbs or there about?


----------



## Ray knight

MAB77 said:


> just bought a used alphamax 35 to do a conversion. I was looking for a #3 cam 30'' draw 60 lb, the one I bought was a #2 cam 28'' draw 60 lb. question is are limbs the same on both, when I go with the rkt #3 and new strings and cables will I end up with 65 lbs or there about?


You are in luck!! Going from #2 cam to #3 you will drop about 5#, with the RKT you gain 5-6# so you should start at 60# with the #2 XTR and end at 60# with the #3 RKT


----------



## ohiohunter02

Hopefully my cams are in and I can get started doing my conversion. Going from #1 fuel cam @ 27"dl to #2 RKT @ 27" dl on my Carbon Matrix +...

Can't wait to see how it shoots..

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BMXRider2011

subscribed


----------



## AK&HIboy

In!want to see/read more great results!RKT cams are a great improvement over fuels as I've had both.


----------



## Antihk7

i have a 55-65 lb maxxed at 65 limb crx 32 do i need to get new limbs when i do the rkt swap


----------



## bcbow1971

Antihk7 said:


> i have a 55-65 lb maxxed at 65 limb crx 32 do i need to get new limbs when i do the rkt swap


No you will gain around 5-6 lbs though, just need to tweak cables as explained. The one I did has custom strings and cables from Ray so just a couple tweaks on cables and it was timed and gained 6 lbs.


----------



## Antihk7

yea just wasnt sure if the added lbs were bad for the limbs


----------



## mongopino915

Hello Ray Knight,

Just wanted to say "THANK YOU" for sharing your knowledge and starting this awesome thread. Decided to upgrade my 2011 CE to the RKT cams to get the most out of her. Followed your instructions word for word and my 60 lbs 2011 CE is now 65 lbs with a smoother draw cycle, lots of valley, and creep room. I basically now have a 2012 CE for the price of a set of new RKT cam.


----------



## maxxis88

Ray knight......You are a Hoyt god!!!!
I will be keeping my eye out for some #3 RKTs for my maxxis


----------



## AK&HIboy

Antihk7 said:


> yea just wasnt sure if the added lbs were bad for the limbs


I know HOYT limbs are rock solid,but how does the extra movement and pounds affect the limbs in the long haul?I'm guessing they will take it with no ill affect,just courouse ray how many shots you have on a cam swapped RKT conversion and any noticeable affect?I'm sure they manufactur the limbs with a extra "caution payload so to say" I.E. can handle more stress than rated for.I'm going to do the swap as soon as I find a set of #2 cams just courouse on long term data found on the swap(limbs ect).Thanks ray


----------



## Ray knight

AK&HIboy said:


> I know HOYT limbs are rock solid,but how does the extra movement and pounds affect the limbs in the long haul?I'm guessing they will take it with no ill affect,just courouse ray how many shots you have on a cam swapped RKT conversion and any noticeable affect?I'm sure they manufactur the limbs with a extra "caution payload so to say" I.E. can handle more stress than rated for.I'm going to do the swap as soon as I find a set of #2 cams just courouse on long term data found on the swap(limbs ect).Thanks ray


You can probably bend the limbs over 120 degrees  They are super strong! Think about limb travel at 32" DL. The average 29" DL is nowhere close even with serious pre-load and RKT cams swapped in. Thousands of shots on my RKT AM35 and its still in perfect tune. If you are worried, you can make the entire harness slightly longer so the starting ATA is longer but the full draw ATA is the same. Draw weight will be about the same as the XTR or Fuel this way. Its fine though. No different than adding some pre-load.


----------



## Ray knight

mongopino915 said:


> Hello Ray Knight,
> 
> Just wanted to say "THANK YOU" for sharing your knowledge and starting this awesome thread. Decided to upgrade my 2011 CE to the RKT cams to get the most out of her. Followed your instructions word for word and my 60 lbs 2011 CE is now 65 lbs with a smoother draw cycle, lots of valley, and creep room. I basically now have a 2012 CE for the price of a set of new RKT cam.


Congrats! I am glad i could help. Its great hearing everyone's results!


----------



## bcbow1971

The CRX 32 we converted was finally tested with no tweaking. 27.5" DL and 66 pounds shot a 372 gr arrow at 289 average.


----------



## Ray knight

bcbow1971 said:


> The CRX 32 we converted was finally tested with no tweaking. 27.5" DL and 66 pounds shot a 372 gr arrow at 289 average.


Those are Vector Turbo speeds  I am glad the strings worked well for you!


----------



## AK&HIboy

I can't wait to try this.I never thought of longer draw archers and limbs bending more makes perfect since tho as you mentioned.


----------



## candymaker13

Ray have you received your new pro comps yet??


----------



## Ray knight

candymaker13 said:


> Ray have you received your new pro comps yet??


Got the pro comp elite in target green. Here is my thread: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1894119

Waiting on my orange and black XL as its custom shop. That one they said is a few weeks out yet.


----------



## Dave23

I really like the new version of RKT cams on the spyder line up. Have you done any swaps with these on other bows yet? I might look into somthing like that for my backup bow. Rampage XT.


----------



## wdriver

Dave23 said:


> I really like the _new version_ of RKT cams on the spyder line up. Have you done any swaps with these on other bows yet? I might look into somthing like that for my backup bow. Rampage XT.



Newer version of RKT cams???????


----------



## bcbow1971

Ray my buddy wonders if the standard(Hoyt Brand) Limb Silencer is better than the Qaud Limbsaver one


----------



## Dave23

Yea from what i was told at the bowshop they made the RKT cams on the spyder bows a larger profile/slightly different. They felt really nice!!!! just looking at all options because my fuel cams and bad shoulder are not jiveing these days!


----------



## Dave23

Maybe i was misinformed?


----------



## MAB77

Hello Ray, thanks for all the info. what are you finding the best placement and number of speed nocks on the alphamax 35 rkt?


----------



## Ray knight

MAB77 said:


> Hello Ray, thanks for all the info. what are you finding the best placement and number of speed nocks on the alphamax 35 rkt?


20-25 grains on each end at 2.5" from the cams. I run 3 "red" nocks at each end which weigh 7.4 each.


----------



## Ray knight

Dave23 said:


> Maybe i was misinformed?


They are a larger size. 3.2, etc. from what i can understand, since the nocking point is so much lower, the rotation rate is different top to bottom so the new cam sizes take care if this issue to keep timing in check.


----------



## Ray knight

bcbow1971 said:


> Ray my buddy wonders if the standard(Hoyt Brand) Limb Silencer is better than the Qaud Limbsaver one


I have never used anything but the stock Alphashox. I don't see any reason to use anything different unless you cannot get a replacement. There may be some that are better but i have not tested them.


----------



## bcbow1971

Ray knight said:


> I have never used anything but the stock Alphashox. I don't see any reason to use anything different unless you cannot get a replacement. There may be some that are better but i have not tested them.


Thanks


----------



## Andy.

70# am 35 #3 cams to a #2 rkt would keep peak weight right at 70, right?


----------



## ruffme

I really want to do this on my 2011 CE. I have 55-65 lb limbs set at 60.
I really want to end up at 55 lbs.....so this is going to cost me a new set of limbs isn't it?


----------



## buckman2591

Andy, peak weight would increase


----------



## Ray knight

Andy. said:


> 70# am 35 #3 cams to a #2 rkt would keep peak weight right at 70, right?


Should gain 4-5#.


----------



## boonerbrad

Anyone done the maxxis 31 yet? Love to see the numbers you got. 340 ibo out of the 31 and i will do the conversion.


----------



## hunter11

If I wanted to lower poundage on a Maxxis 35 with a RKT swap...would I get the factory string length?


----------



## Ray knight

hunter11 said:


> If I wanted to lower poundage on a Maxxis 35 with a RKT swap...would I get the factory string length?


No sir. It wont time. You could add 1/8" to the buss, add 1/4" to the control, and add 1/8" to the string from the factory XTR lengths. Less pre-load. Less draw weight. Should time spot on with very little adjustment.


----------



## adventuregeorge

Ray--

I have both the AM 35 and Vector 35. Can I switch out my limbs and cams on the Vector and put them on the Alpha? I like the Alpha geometry better. Any changes on what would happen? thanks


----------



## Ray knight

adventuregeorge said:


> Ray--
> 
> I have both the AM 35 and Vector 35. Can I switch out my limbs and cams on the Vector and put them on the Alpha? I like the Alpha geometry better. Any changes on what would happen? thanks


XTS 500, XTS 1000 and pro arc limbs are all interchangeable. Draw lengths will be a bit different but the XTS 500 and pro Arc lengths are about the same. Its only a few mm i think. Should be no problem to directly swap limbs. Strings are different on the vector 35 because of the rollers. Cables would be longer.


----------



## adventuregeorge

Ray knight said:


> XTS 500, XTS 1000 and pro arc limbs are all interchangeable. Draw lengths will be a bit different but the XTS 500 and pro Arc lengths are about the same. Its only a few mm i think. Should be no problem to directly swap limbs. Strings are different on the vector 35 because of the rollers. Cables would be longer.


So if I use the strings that come on the Alpha Max, I should be all set? Also, What's your thoughts on the Vector vs Alpha Max geometry? I've always liked the Alpha max, I shoot that bow great.


----------



## Ray knight

adventuregeorge said:


> So if I use the strings that come on the Alpha Max, I should be all set? Also, What's your thoughts on the Vector vs Alpha Max geometry? I've always liked the Alpha max, I shoot that bow great.


If you keep the AM strings with the AM and the V35 strings with the V35 and just swap XT500 for pro arc, it should be fine. I like both of these bows. The AM35 is damn near perfect! The V35 is as well but different.


----------



## hoyt em all

hunter11 said:


> If I wanted to lower poundage on a Maxxis 35 with a RKT swap...would I get the factory string length?


a 2012 carbon matrix 35 factory string set should work but probably wont lower DW


----------



## dwagoner

adventuregeorge said:


> Ray--
> 
> I have both the AM 35 and Vector 35. Can I switch out my limbs and cams on the Vector and put them on the Alpha? I like the Alpha geometry better. Any changes on what would happen? thanks


you should check deflection first on both, alot of newer bows are same def limbs even, IE i just asked and a 2010 matrix uses exact same def as a 2012 matrix, little difference in how much preload there using to get same poundage. you may have same def limbs on alphamax since its a XTR cam bow as the vector 35 and no need to swap em really


----------



## bbentley392t

Thanks to this thread I just ordered a set of #3 RKT's for my 2011 Matrix Plus, pretty excited...looking forward to getting this done!


----------



## dwagoner

bbentley392t said:


> Thanks to this thread I just ordered a set of #3 RKT's for my 2011 Matrix Plus, pretty excited...looking forward to getting this done!


YEP after done hunting (hopefully this weekend LOL) ima put the rkt i have on my 2010 matrix also, see if it improves over the xtr


----------



## bbentley392t

dwagoner said:


> ima put the rkt i have on my 2010 matrix also, see if it improves over the xtr


I think it will, at least I hope so...from what I've gathered the XTR's that were on my Maxxis 35 and the FUEL's that are on my Matrix + are literally the same cam with different stickers, so I guess we'll both find out soon enough. I've yet to shoot another Matrix with the RKT's installed on it, but I did recently shoot a friends Vector Turbo with RKT's...and what impressed me more than anything else was just how well that particular cam held at full draw, I'm getting really tired of the FUEL's wanting to rip my arm off.


----------



## AK&HIboy

^^^ RKT cams are a improvement over fuel/xtr cams in every way,smoother and way better valley.I would say 100% of all archers would choose the RKT cam over fuel/xtr cams.


----------



## dwagoner

bbentley392t said:


> I think it will, at least I hope so...from what I've gathered the XTR's that were on my Maxxis 35 and the FUEL's that are on my Matrix + are literally the same cam with different stickers, so I guess we'll both find out soon enough. I've yet to shoot another Matrix with the RKT's installed on it, but I did recently shoot a friends Vector Turbo with RKT's...and what impressed me more than anything else was just how well that particular cam held at full draw, I'm getting really tired of the FUEL's wanting to rip my arm off.


had fuel on my maxxis and matrix has xtr, i cant tell really anything, but im not picky when it comes to cams. have no issues with valley on either or backwall, like the cams alot actually. But if rkt is little smoother and faster it may get the feel back like z3 cams that i had on my katera xl, and i loved those...


----------



## bbentley392t

dwagoner said:


> it may get the feel back like z3 cams that i had on my katera xl, and i loved those...


I've always wanted one of those set-up's, but they get snatched up here in the classifieds pretty quick...


----------



## bbentley392t

AK&HIboy said:


> I would say 100% of all archers would choose the RKT cam over fuel/xtr cams.


Even based on what little experience I actually have with the, (5 min. at the most)...I'd say you're right.


----------



## dwagoner

bbentley392t said:


> I've always wanted one of those set-up's, but they get snatched up here in the classifieds pretty quick...


ya ive seen some Z3 matrix conversions and were super smooth, but lacked adding speed, well see what rkt can do, never drawn rkt cams YET but soon to come


----------



## GSX1400UK

I have a 2010 matrix i'am having the riser repainted so it's the ideal time to do the cam change to rkt. my dl is 29" dw 60 cam no 2 , so if i understand this i need rkt no 2 lengthen cc by 1/8" shorten bc by 1/8"


----------



## AK&HIboy

If you've never tried RKTs you will love them.Imo better than spirals,fuels/xtrs and z3s.They are IMHO the best all around HOYT came to date.


----------



## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> ya ive seen some Z3 matrix conversions and were super smooth, but lacked adding speed, well see what rkt can do, never drawn rkt cams YET but soon to come


Like mine. The Z3 cams are AWESOME drawing and have a crazy hard back wall but are slower that the SpiralX, XTR,Fuel and RKT no doubt. Super smooth though!


----------



## dwagoner

is rkt a faster z3 from the draw perspective??? forgot you had z3 now.


----------



## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> is rkt a faster z3 from the draw perspective??? forgot you had z3 now.


Think of the Z3 as a less aggressive SpiralX cam with 65% or 75% letoff. TOTALLY different than the RKT. They are a very linear draw like the spiralX.


----------



## dwagoner

yeah ive had sprials in past and z3 but you dont think z3 compares to rkt???? they totally diff draw? Z3 just smooth and steady thru draw


----------



## AK&HIboy

To ME the RKTs are a smoothe even pull like spirals with more letoff and valley wich is very shooter friendly.Does not have any humps or hard spots during draw,valley is locked and letoff is what most archers will enjoy.There's a reason RKTs made it to the 2013 line up and I don't know how they would improve them?Yes they are that good!My 2011 element will be sporting RKTs at the end if the week.If HOYT won't make a carbon burner,Ray Knight will!And that's essentially what will happen to my 2011 element,more efficient cam design,more limb pre load,equals more fps with a more manageable shooter friendly cam.Now if you could lower BH to 6" you would have one smokin rig!But even at stock brace the conversions numbers are impressive to say the least considering you gaining speed,valley and better draw cycle.It's a Win Win.


----------



## bbentley392t

AK&HIboy said:


> But even at stock brace the conversions numbers are impressive to say the least considering you gaining speed,valley and better draw cycle.It's a Win Win.


That's the thing, I'm really looking forward to seeing where my numbers go from here...that's not to say I'm one of these "speed crazy" guys looking to build rocket launcher by any means, but me personally I'm all about kinetic energy. Currently with the OEM strings & cams, I'm getting 300fps with 80# of KE shooting a 400 grain arrow at 72lbs...according to Ray's numbers I should increase draw weight weight by about 5lbs. and speed by roughly 10fps, it makes me wonder where my KE will end up?


----------



## Ronin Conan

Ray knight said:


> Think of the Z3 as a less aggressive SpiralX cam with 65% or 75% letoff. TOTALLY different than the RKT. They are a very linear draw like the spiralX.


Do you know what sort of letoff you get with the RKT when the drawstop is placed one and/or two positions shorter than the module used?


----------



## shermo

Would love to switch the Fuel Cams for a set of Spirals on a 2011 Alpha Elite


----------



## ruffme

Probably going to order new cams today..

Ray says go with spirals..I have a bad shoulder/back and want to drop poundage.
Never shot Spirals....what are they like?


----------



## AK&HIboy

To ME spirals are a smoothe even pull all the way thru the draw cycle with no humps,very very short valley and low letoff.Wich makes for a great shooting rig,but do not OVER bow your self with spirals they are difficult if you can't manage the DW.As you stated your dropping DW so they will be perfect.I liked spirals at atleast 5#lbs less draw wieght than a normally shoot.They will keep you "honest" force you to make a strong shot I.E. pull hard into the wall thru the shot.Great cam but most don't like them at high pounds.


----------



## Ray knight

redruff said:


> Probably going to order new cams today..
> 
> Ray says go with spirals..I have a bad shoulder/back and want to drop poundage.
> Never shot Spirals....what are they like?


The best part is the let down. There is absolutely no point in the draw where it pulls harder. So its very easy to slowly let down.


----------



## rj40

Ray
I was looking on Hoyt's tuning chart. Tring 2 figure out if I can use the RKT cams on a 2009 Pro Elite or a 2009 Ultra Elite.
I would need the #3 cam for a 31" draw length.
Looks like the length of the string, control cable and buss cable from the cam 1/2 to the rkt big differents in length.
What's your opinion.
Thanks


----------



## Ray knight

rj40 said:


> Ray
> I was looking on Hoyt's tuning chart. Tring 2 figure out if I can use the RKT cams on a 2009 Pro Elite or a 2009 Ultra Elite.
> I would need the #3 cam for a 31" draw length.
> Looks like the length of the string, control cable and buss cable from the cam 1/2 to the rkt big differents in length.
> What's your opinion.
> Thanks


You can. You have to set the ATA longer as the RKT cams have more cable travel. You will gain 15-20# DW.


----------



## kimberGR

Thanks Ray for all the information on the swap. I did what you and dale b1 had suggusted went from fuel #2 to rkt #1 and the bow is shooting lights out. When you have guys like you, dale b1, and my tech Justin from Big Game Pro Archery it really make for a great sport and people helping people.


----------



## Ray knight

kimberGR said:


> Thanks Ray for all the information on the swap. I did what you and dale b1 had suggusted went from fuel #2 to rkt #1 and the bow is shooting lights out. When you have guys like you, dale b1, and my tech Justin from Big Game Pro Archery it really make for a great sport and people helping people.


Thanks!! I am always happy to help fellow archers  glad it worked out! How much speed did you gain? I have done a few RKT 3A to RKT 2E conversions and seen gains as high as 15fps!


----------



## GSX1400UK

Hi Ray I have a 2010 matrix i'am having the riser repainted so it's the ideal time to do the cam change to rkt. my dl is 29" dw 60 cam no 2 
so if i understand this i need rkt no 2 lengthen cc by 1/8" shorten bc by 1/8"


----------



## Ray knight

GSX1400UK said:


> Hi Ray I have a 2010 matrix i'am having the riser repainted so it's the ideal time to do the cam change to rkt. my dl is 29" dw 60 cam no 2
> so if i understand this i need rkt no 2 lengthen cc by 1/8" shorten bc by 1/8"


that is exactly correct! On the #2 cam, i like to go shorter on the string as well. 1/4" to 1/2" shorter. But that's just me


----------



## GSX1400UK

Ray knight said:


> that is exactly correct! On the #2 cam, i like to go shorter on the string as well. 1/4" to 1/2" shorter. But that's just me


Thanks ray have ordered the cams will order strings later today


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## dwagoner

GSX1400UK said:


> Thanks ray have ordered the cams will order strings later today


just an idea but may wanna get cams on and use the stock strings to get tuned up and make sure lengths are where you want them. i just did a cam swap and built some testers first, even though i had good lengths i just wanted to make sure on my bow they tuned right where i needed them. just an idea


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## bobdvm

Nice. Im going to do this.


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## ruffme

Stopped by my shop today.
We talked...
I have a 2011 element with fuel cams

So he looked up the string set lengths

Element
String 54.25
Control 36
Y 33.34

Then he looked up the alpha burner #6 cam so I get 28" dl
String 60.75
Control 40.25
Y 36.25
Do these numbers sound right?

Then here is my dilemma...I really want a lower poundage. Ray says with the spiral swap I should end up around #53.
Should I just get new limbs, reuse a nearly new string and use the fuel cams, And not void the warranty. Or
Go with the spiral swap, need a new string, void the warranty and cost about twice as much?

At this point I'm not sure I'm going to love the spirals that much more? I hate these dilemmas!


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## Ray knight

redruff said:


> Stopped by my shop today.
> We talked...
> I have a 2011 element with fuel cams
> 
> So he looked up the string set lengths
> 
> Element
> String 54.25
> Control 36
> Y 33.34
> 
> Then he looked up the alpha burner #6 cam so I get 28" dl
> String 60.75
> Control 40.25
> Y 36.25
> Do these numbers sound right?
> 
> Then here is my dilemma...I really want a lower poundage. Ray says with the spiral swap I should end up around #53.
> Should I just get new limbs, reuse a nearly new string and use the fuel cams, And not void the warranty. Or
> Go with the spiral swap, need a new string, void the warranty and cost about twice as much?
> 
> At this point I'm not sure I'm going to love the spirals that much more? I hate these dilemmas!


Its hard to hate the spiralX cams at 50-60#!! Be sure to add for the rollers. cables need to be longer.


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## ruffme

Ray knight said:


> Its hard to hate the spiralX cams at 50-60#!! Be sure to add for the rollers. cables need to be longer.


I guess, what kind of freaked me out was the guy said, man those sound long and then to add a half inch! He sounded doubtful! But I told him Ray knows his stuff! I asked, won't the longer lengths deflex the limbs and that's where the drop in draw weight comes from? He said probably but he's never done this before! 
He's onboard if I want to do it, just not sure I'll get it back into spec without a big hassle!


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## montigre

shermo said:


> Would love to switch the Fuel Cams for a set of Spirals on a 2011 Alpha Elite


Hey Shermo, getting ready to do that very same conversion on one of my Alpha Elites that currently has fuel cams. Since I'm a target/field shooter, I really do not have to have a speed demon, but the smoothness of the spiral x cams will have my post surgery healing shoulders smiling BIG... And with the decrease in DW I'll get, I'll finally be able to shoot the cams maxed out instead of backed off..we shall see...:wink: 

Now I have to decide what to do with my other AE that also has fuel cams.... Maybe the RKTs? If the spirals work out well on the first one, maybe do 'em both up that way....ahhhh, decisions, decisions....


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## ruffme

OK, I'm confused....
I looked at the alpha burner chart myself.
The lengths my shop gave me are for the FAMILY #6 lengths!
To get a 27/28 inch dl I need family size #4 with a base cam #6.

Can someone explain to me this terminology? What is family size and what s base cam size?


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## team-A&S

I got those 5.5 spiral x cams coming for my wifes bow should be kind of interesting to see what happens on the speed end of it but more or less the smoooothness of the cams should so much better thank again Ray 

also 

i have a hooter shooter i can play with on weighting the strings. is there a set measurement to start at on the main string or is it just a hit and miss on the starting point


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## pa_archer

Thanks Ray great post. Have you tried an RKT conversion on a 737 yet? What would you expect to see in this conversion?


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## Fdale's Finest

pa_archer said:


> Thanks Ray great post. Have you tried an RKT conversion on a 737 yet? What would you expect to see in this conversion?


I would be curious about this too?!


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## Ray knight

pa_archer said:


> Thanks Ray great post. Have you tried an RKT conversion on a 737 yet? What would you expect to see in this conversion?


It would be crazy fast. Like the alphaburners i have done with RKTs and fuels. Thos limbs were not meant to bend so far so you have to open up the ATA more than stock.


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## kimberGR

Ray as soon as I get the chance I will post some chrono numbers. The fuel cams #2 set at 26 DL with a 359 gr arrow had a speed of 258 fps. It will neat to see what the RKT cams #1 set at 25.5 DL will give.


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## JFB

Ray,
I have a 2011 CRX 32, 55 to 65lb. limbs, with a 29" draw which uses a C mod on #3 Fuel Cams. You can buy a 2013 Vector from Hoyt, or will the RKT mod work for me? If the mod will work for me would I gain anything in speed. I am doing about 296fps with a 360 grain Axis at 63lbs. Remember the brace height on a 2011 is 7" vs. the brace height on the 2012 Vector is 6 3/4". What would the specifics on cables and strings be and is there anything else that would have to be modified that I maybe overlooking. I could save a lot of money going this route, but if the gains aren't there, then I might as well go for a new Vector or Spyper. Please give me your opinion on this and any specifics you can. Thanks


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## GWFH

Anyone get results on the contender changeover yet?

I remember a couple people talking about it, but didnt see results breezing back thru posts.
I have had no time to try on mine yet.


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## Ray knight

GWFH said:


> Anyone get results on the contender changeover yet?
> 
> I remember a couple people talking about it, but didnt see results breezing back thru posts.
> I have had no time to try on mine yet.


Should work the same way as the alphaburner. Gained about 16fps IBO speed over spiralX cams. You should gain 10-20# depending on your DL.


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## ruffme

Here we go....ordered my spirals for the element yesterday. Shop quoted me about $100.


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## Camp III

Would spiral x cams on a Katera be faster with lower weight than the Z3's that are on it now? my specs are 70lb @ 29.5. I do have 50-60lbs limbs also.


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## spenn

Subscribed


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## kimberGR

Chrono the CRX 32 with the RKT cams. First the feul cams where 26 DL and 60 lb limbs sent the 359.9 gr arrow 258fps. Than RKT cams are 25.5 DL and the 60 lb limbs sent the same 359.9 gr arrow 268 fps. Thats a 10 fps gain got to love that. Thanks again to all that helped me with this project.


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## pdskal

*AM35 conversion questions*

Absolutely love this thread. I'm giving my 2009 AM35 new life! 

I'm a 29" draw length so I'm using the 'E' draw mods. Current poundage around 58#.

Want to swap out the XTR#2 cams with RKT#2 cams. So if I'm reading things right I want to make the following modifications:

Recipe:
Stock String = 54.75"
Stock CC = 39.25" [add 1/8"] = RKT 39.375"
Stock BC = 37.00" [subtract 1/8"] = RKT 36.875"

Sounds like from reading this thread this recipe will raise my draw weight, not a bad thing, but I'd prefer to keep things around 56-58#.
I need new string/cables anyway, so what should measure different to maintain current poundage?
If it's not possible, that's fine, just need to know so I can plan accordingly.

If anyone could help me out with suggestions it would be greatly appreciated!
I got a little confused sorting out any discussion on possible String lengths & how it affects the RKT conversion. Thanks -Paul


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## jdouthit

Ray have you done the swap on a Maxxis 31 yet? If so, how'd that go?


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## pdskal

Ray knight said:


> No sir. It wont time. You could add 1/8" to the buss, add 1/4" to the control, and add 1/8" to the string from the factory XTR lengths. Less pre-load. Less draw weight. Should time spot on with very little adjustment.


I'm thinking this is what I need to do on my AM35 to keep the original XTR draw weight close after the RKT conversion???


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## Fdale's Finest

Ray,

I am shooting a 72 pound 737. I have the itch to switch it up and wondered what would be the better mod. Switching to xt 2000 limbs and spirals or the RKT cam. If the RKT cam what cam would make 29.5 inches. I make my own strings so that wont be an issue to experiment .

Thanks,
Rick


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## tweeter196

You are the man Chris. Finally got to shoot my Alphamax 35 tonight. Guys this upgrade is awesome!!! DL 30.5, DW 62lbs, 312 gn arrow>>>>

321 fps!!!! And the draw feels awesome. The absolute best I have ever had out of this bow with xtr cams was 305 fps. And of all things the change actually made my brace height bigger. I can't wait for 3D season. Thanks a million Chris.

Fearless at the stake!!!!!


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## bbentley392t

I finally just finished this upgrade myself, and to be completely honest I'm kind of disappointed in the numbers after the swap...although the draw cycle and the way the RKT's feel is incredible, I personally did not gain anywhere near the speed that the majority of others have.


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## dwagoner

bbentley392t said:


> I finally just finished this upgrade myself, and to be completely honest I'm kind of disappointed in the numbers after the swap...although the draw cycle and the way the RKT's feel is incredible, I personally did not gain anywhere near the speed that the majority of others have.


how much tweaking did you do on cam timing?? what about strings did you use stock or make others???


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## bbentley392t

dwagoner said:


> how much tweaking did you do on cam timing?? what about strings did you use stock or make others???


As far as cam timing tweaking goes, we did a little but not much...I'm sure it could be better, but I just had a guy at my generic small town local outdoors store do all the work for me since my Hoyt dealer is just over 80 miles away and I don't get up there that often. In regards to the string, yes it's brand new and had to be according to what I read on Ray Knights thread and after a few PM's with him...in fact here's a thread I started on my new strings, LOL! http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1905767


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## sightpin

Ray, As others have said this is a great thing you're sharing with all of us. I sense a love of the sport coming from you and a desire to see others enjoy it as well. I'm seriously considering my first Hoyt bow. Any recommendations? I want to be no more than 65# and I'm a 29.5" draw length. I don't care for the string angle on the short ata bows 31" and shorter. Thanks again.


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## SHEGGE

Ray-
I have a 2011 element #2 cam. the tune chart calls
Fuel specs
50.75
35.25
33.
RKT
51.25
35.5
Wouldn't my string be to short ? Not sure what to do even if I ordered new rkt string set? or stay with 2011 set? What axle to axle spec should I use?
I love to make the change but I want to do it right. 
Thanks


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## bbentley392t

SHEGGE said:


> Not sure what to do even if I ordered new rkt string set? or stay with 2011 set? What axle to axle spec should I use?
> I love to make the change but I want to do it right.
> Thanks


Based on what Ray told me when I did my Fuel/RKT swap, and it could be completely different between your element and my matrix...but all you need to do is have new strings built and in the process, add 1/8" to the stock control cable length and subtract 1/8" from the stock buss cable length...then it's literally a straight swap.


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## bscull

Would this be possible on a Vectrix XL?
The bow is set at 28" draw length with 60 lbs limbs.
I'm wondering what base cam, modules and string combination would be needed.
Thanks


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## WMA HUNTER

Marked


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## ruffme

My spirals are in! Just gotta go pick them up.


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## shooter jon

Gotta mark this one! For my maxxis31

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## flyfishwv1

I have alphamax 32 
65#
28 dl
410 gr arrow
What type of difference in speed should I see if I upgrade to RKT cams?


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## boonerbrad

Anyone done a Maxxis 31 with RKT cams yet?


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## gharm63

Subscribed.


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## ohiohunter02

Thanks to some guidance bybthis thread and Ray Knight, I got my '11 CM swapped from fuel cams to the RKT's.. man I'm so glad I did it... 

Fuel specs:

#1 cam @ 27"
60lb
358gr arrow @ 274fps

RKT specs:

#2 cam @ 27"
64.5lb
358gr arrived @ 282fps
333gr arrow 274 @ 291fps



















Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## MAB77

Just got my #3 rkt cams in from hoyt after 2 months back order! they are the new 2013's with black mods. I am doing a conversion on my am 35, are the cams the same as the 2012 rkt's and do I use the string lenghts talked about earlier?


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## mountbkr

MAB77 said:


> Just got my #3 rkt cams in from hoyt after 2 months back order! they are the new 2013's with black mods. I am doing a conversion on my am 35, are the cams the same as the 2012 rkt's and do I use the string lenghts talked about earlier?


Yes and yes.


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## BMXRider2011

Subscribed


----------



## Ray knight

For fuel/XTR - RKT #2 and #3 conversions, i am getting the best performance going 1/4" shorter on the buss, stock control, and 1/2" shorter on the string. Lots and lots of testing! This is getting some really impressive speed gains and letoff is about 70%.


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## killerloop

tagged


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## dwagoner

Ray knight said:


> For fuel/XTR - RKT #2 and #3 conversions, i am getting the best performance going 1/4" shorter on the buss, stock control, and 1/2" shorter on the string. Lots and lots of testing! This is getting some really impressive speed gains and letoff is about 70%.


whats typical poundage increase with this string setup?


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## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> whats typical poundage increase with this string setup?


Minimal. You gain weight from the RKT cam but lose it with the shorter string setup. Valley is still excellent as well. Typical gain with this is 2-3# only.


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## Ray knight

Ray knight said:


> For fuel/XTR - RKT #2 and #3 conversions, i am getting the best performance going 1/4" shorter on the buss, stock control, and 1/2" shorter on the string. Lots and lots of testing! This is getting some really impressive speed gains and letoff is about 70%.


Just a quick note since i got a lot of questions, This is based of the original XTR/fuel sizes. NOT the 2012 RKT sizes.


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## unicornslayer

Think I need to do this with my crx.


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## MAB77

just finished swap, somethings not right. am 35 xtr #2c cam to a rkt #3c used stock string lenght 58'' cc 39 7/8 , 1/8 over stock, buss 37 3/8 1/8 under stock. at these lenghts bottom cam was 1'' away when top was touching stop. ata was 35 1/16 , should be 35 3/8, took 10 twists out of buss, cams are in time ata is 35 1/4 . dw is 72lbs! is the new 2013 rkt have something to do with this? dl is 30 1/4 . was hoping for less dw going from a #2 to #3 . limb def is 82


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## MAB77

forgot to add these are 60 lb limbs


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## Ray knight

SHEGGE said:


> Ray-
> I have a 2011 element #2 cam. the tune chart calls
> Fuel specs
> 50.75
> 35.25
> 33.
> RKT
> 51.25
> 35.5
> Wouldn't my string be to short ? Not sure what to do even if I ordered new rkt string set? or stay with 2011 set? What axle to axle spec should I use?
> I love to make the change but I want to do it right.
> Thanks


If you want to use the factory 2012 specs go right ahead. They are pretty mild though. If you want it hot, use my specs. Go with fuel string sizes, cut 1/2" off the string size and 1/4" off the buss. This setup makes a significant increase in smoothness and speed. Holding weight is about 68-70% with my specs. Just a bit more letoff than spiralX cams but with a valley. Stock is listed at 75% but in reality its closer to 80%. It does not need to be so tame.


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## Ray knight

MAB77 said:


> just finished swap, somethings not right. am 35 xtr #2c cam to a rkt #3c used stock string lenght 58'' cc 39 7/8 , 1/8 over stock, buss 37 3/8 1/8 under stock. at these lenghts bottom cam was 1'' away when top was touching stop. ata was 35 1/16 , should be 35 3/8, took 10 twists out of buss, cams are in time ata is 35 1/4 . dw is 72lbs! is the new 2013 rkt have something to do with this? dl is 30 1/4 . was hoping for less dw going from a #2 to #3 . limb def is 82


Are you using the 3.0 RKT or the 3.1 RKT? How are you measuring your string sizes? I would put them on a stretcher and re-measure. Use 1/4" posts at exactly 100#.


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## MAB77

the cams are marked RK3, string are stretched and measured to outside of loops, going from #2 to #3 DW should be close to 62 not 72 should'nt it?


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## mountbkr

Going from #2 to #3 will raise draw weight by itself so maybe not too far off spec.


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## hoytwon

MAB77 mine was exactly like yours, i have 70 lb limbs, got it down to 67 shoots lights out.


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## MAB77

ray, rechecked string lengths all right on, but ending up with extreme bottom cam under rotation not top cam as you were finding in your original post. are the 3.1 rkt cams clearly marked on side of cam?


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## OrrHunter1

Hey Ray,
Just ordered my #3 RKT cams for my Maxxis 31, any details you may have on this setup sure would be great.
I just seen in a prior post you were talking about 3.0 & 3.1 RKT's what are the differences between the two. 
Hope that I ordered the right cams? 

Thanks, OrrHunter1


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## huntnutsbro

so, im in the market for a new bow. i was planning on getting the mission ballistic, but after reading this thread im thinking about picking up a used hoyt. they are about the most durable bow built, and i loved my vulcan. 

im looking to get in at 28.5 to 29 inch draw, and 65 to 67 pounds dw. so i need a 60 pound bow with the correct cams for my drawlength, then order the rkt cams with same numbers and mods? and when i have strings and cables built i go with stock length string, and cables + and - 1/4inch for each as previously listed for original cams, not rkt correct?


now, my next questions are for the OP, with all the conversions you have done, which hoyt bow model should i look for? alphamax32 maxxis31, crx? is there any one that you liked best as far as performance gains, with the improved wall and valley and draw cycle? right now i shoot a 310 ibo bow (McPherson Edge) at 65lbs with 357 gr arrows at 285 to 288fps, i would like to do that and get 300fps. is it possible?


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## carbon_kid

Hey guys I'm outgrowing my hoyt pro elite and my cam and a half + is maxed out in 27.5 inch draw and it's too short I have a vector turbo and I like the rkt cam can I put the rkt on my pro elite? If so what do I need?


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## Ray knight

huntnutsbro said:


> so, im in the market for a new bow. i was planning on getting the mission ballistic, but after reading this thread im thinking about picking up a used hoyt. they are about the most durable bow built, and i loved my vulcan.
> 
> im looking to get in at 28.5 to 29 inch draw, and 65 to 67 pounds dw. so i need a 60 pound bow with the correct cams for my drawlength, then order the rkt cams with same numbers and mods? and when i have strings and cables built i go with stock length string, and cables + and - 1/4inch for each as previously listed for original cams, not rkt correct?
> 
> 
> now, my next questions are for the OP, with all the conversions you have done, which hoyt bow model should i look for? alphamax32 maxxis31, crx? is there any one that you liked best as far as performance gains, with the improved wall and valley and draw cycle? right now i shoot a 310 ibo bow (McPherson Edge) at 65lbs with 357 gr arrows at 285 to 288fps, i would like to do that and get 300fps. is it possible?


Alphamax 35 with RKTs is an amazing all around bow. They are hitting around 335 IBO with RKT cams.


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## Ray knight

carbon_kid said:


> Hey guys I'm outgrowing my hoyt pro elite and my cam and a half + is maxed out in 27.5 inch draw and it's too short I have a vector turbo and I like the rkt cam can I put the rkt on my pro elite? If so what do I need?


I did RKTs on one of my Contender Elites and its really nice to shoot! Fast too. I have #2 E cams on that making 31" DL. So you would probably use the #1 RKT.


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## Ray knight

OrrHunter1 said:


> Hey Ray,
> Just ordered my #3 RKT cams for my Maxxis 31, any details you may have on this setup sure would be great.
> I just seen in a prior post you were talking about 3.0 & 3.1 RKT's what are the differences between the two.
> Hope that I ordered the right cams?
> 
> Thanks, OrrHunter1


The .1 cams are larger. I assume they are designed to match the rotation with the lower grip i assume. I would use the XTR sizes -1/4" buss and -1/2" string.


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## huntnutsbro

Ray knight said:


> Alphamax 35 with RKTs is an amazing all around bow. They are hitting around 335 IBO with RKT cams.


Thanks ray, will check them out.


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## OrrHunter1

Ray,
Made the swap over on my Maxxis tonight, I removed 3 twists from the control cable and added 3 twists to bus cable.
The timing appears to be right but didn't have time to do a final tune so I'll have to finish it up Friday evening.
The draw feels like is difinently smoother. "Now we're cooking with peanut oil"

Thanks,
OrrHunter1


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## MAB77

hello ray, one quick question, on my am 35 #3 RKT limb def. is 82 I am maxing out at 72lbs, thinking of new limbs what def. would you suggest to get me down to 62? thanks for your time.


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## lunk2002

I've really enjoyed this thread lots of great info. I have a Vector 35 and just love it, but I also have an Elite GT500 that I love as well but is too short DL for me. Ray any thoughts on putting RKT's on that. Limb gap measures the same with a tape as I don't have a caliper. Thanks.


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## easyeriq

subscribed


----------



## Ray knight

MAB77 said:


> hello ray, one quick question, on my am 35 #3 RKT limb def. is 82 I am maxing out at 72lbs, thinking of new limbs what def. would you suggest to get me down to 62? thanks for your time.


I would guess around 68 deflection or so.


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## Ray knight

lunk2002 said:


> I've really enjoyed this thread lots of great info. I have a Vector 35 and just love it, but I also have an Elite GT500 that I love as well but is too short DL for me. Ray any thoughts on putting RKT's on that. Limb gap measures the same with a tape as I don't have a caliper. Thanks.


GT500 RKT yes!! Do it  that will make a nice bow. No idea on the weight but you can cross reference with hoyts tune charts and compare brace heights and draw lengths to find the right cam.


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## Ddenney

Oh my i should not have found this.. now got wheels turning. Couple questions though... I have a short draw length..26.5.. and have trouble finding used bows to fit me. What deflection limbs would i likely nee d for 55-65 weight range?


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## Ray knight

Ddenney said:


> Oh my i should not have found this.. now got wheels turning. Couple questions though... I have a short draw length..26.5.. and have trouble finding used bows to fit me. What deflection limbs would i likely nee d for 55-65 weight range?


Depends on the bow, limb angle, cam size, pre-load, pocket setup, etc. hard to say!


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## Ddenney

Ray knight said:


> Depends on the bow, limb angle, cam size, pre-load, pocket setup, etc. hard to say!



Well I've been looking to find a alphamax. Crx. Or even maxxis all 35" ata. Wanting it for a target bow. But usually cant find my draw length.. after finding some projects on here I may just have to go all out with a custom project of my own.


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## OrrHunter1

For all those asking what the RKT cam is like on a Maxxis 31 here's my findings.
Did the final tune on my Maxxis 31 tonight! These cams are awesome! Totally different bow a much smoother draw cycle, solid back wall and a more forgiving valley that is more to my liking. I didn't get time to check fps on the chrono yet. That will be on the next outing! I did the prescribed twist to the control & buss cables and then had to add about 4 twist to one side of spit yoke. The peek weight went up to 67lbs for a 5 lbs gain. IMO this was a well spent $125:thumbs_up

Later, OrrHunter1


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## jdouthit

I have a Maxxis 31 that is probably in need of a new string and cables in the near future. If I were to do the RKT cam swap at the same time should I order the same string and cables I'd normally order for my current cams or something else?


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## Ray knight

jdouthit said:


> I have a Maxxis 31 that is probably in need of a new string and cables in the near future. If I were to do the RKT cam swap at the same time should I order the same string and cables I'd normally order for my current cams or something else?


I would suggest order the string 1/2" shorter and the buss 1/4" shorter than the XTR/fuel specs.


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## MAB77

will the 1/2'' shorter string and the 1/4'' shorter buss still get you the same ATA and brace as specs?


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## dwagoner

MAB77 said:


> hello ray, one quick question, on my am 35 #3 RKT limb def. is 82 I am maxing out at 72lbs, thinking of new limbs what def. would you suggest to get me down to 62? thanks for your time.


on my maxxis35, which is alot like the AM35 i have 72def limbs with rkt and it made bout 63# first go around, this was with little short strung too, i since made little longer cables to bring ATA closer to spec and poundage down as i didnt want a short strung higher poundage setup. #3 cams also. 72/74 def are on alot of 60# bows and you could get those setup in low 60's like your wanting. hard to find 68def limbs but 74s are more popular for sure. i actually just found some 66def limbs on ebay i picked up and put on my matrix for a target weight setup. its low poundage LOL nice for indoor



MAB77 said:


> will the 1/2'' shorter string and the 1/4'' shorter buss still get you the same ATA and brace as specs?


will be shorter ata, mine was 5/16" shorter first time i did setup. thats why i went longer, i wanted to keep it close to "stock" specs, DW ATA and such. it all depends how you want the final setup on the bow, theres alot to tuning and such and thats whats nice, you can raise poundage and lower holding weight, some dont like 75/80% letoff and some do, some love the little extra weight and some want to stay where they were before the swap.  alot you can do in setup hence the difference in cam timing and cam sync, which is alot of the differences in the cam timing. either way i do like the rkt cams, and glad to have someone thats done them on alot of bows to help out (RKT Ray Knight Tuner??) lol funny how his name co-insides with the cams HAHA


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## dwagoner

OH and BTW even if your ATA is a little shorter than what tune charts recommend its not a safety issue, those limbs are TOUGH and little shorter ATA doesnt affect them at all....


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## MAB77

Thanks for your inut dwagoner and ray knight, I'm still learning, helps alot!


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## sm26pyclub

Has anyone swapped xtr #3 cams with #3 fuel cams? I just did and it seems the strings/cables short - meaning we had to take A LOT of twists out of the string and cables..

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ray knight

sm26pyclub said:


> Has anyone swapped xtr #3 cams with #3 fuel cams? I just did and it seems the strings/cables short - meaning we had to take A LOT of twists out of the string and cables..
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk


Should be exactly the same lengths. Do you have the same mods installed?


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## sm26pyclub

Ray knight said:


> Should be exactly the same lengths. Do you have the same mods installed?


I went from #2 cams to #3 cam and ordered the vapertrail strings for the #3 xtr cams

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk


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## Ray knight

sm26pyclub said:


> I went from #2 cams to #3 cam and ordered the vapertrail strings for the #3 xtr cams
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk


Did you measure the strings from VT? Sizes may be off. Very likely.


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## RyanH

Subscribed!


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## nogg

I have ordered #3 B mod rkts for my maxxis 35,Hoyt told the dealer bout 5 days,My string maker is on board and I can't wait until its complete.Ray,Thank you!


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## lowboy

So how hard would it be to do this to a Katera?


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## Apache

It wouldn't be that hard, new cams from a dealer run $100 and a new set of threads. Ray knight can probably calculate the string and cable lengths ...


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## Lurch2824

Ray ive been watching this thread trying to bring alittle more spees to my Maxxis 35. I have the xtr #3 set at 30.5" weight is 61 lbs. Im wanting to do this swap but want to make sure its going to be worth it in the long run. My issue is I have to shoot a long arrow due to my DL and than makes my arrows get heavy fast. My ACC Pro 340 weigh around 440 grains and i would like more speed so i get more KE. Im trying to find some 74 def limbs on here to replace the 84 def i have to give me max 61 or 62 lbs and the cam swap sounds lovely if your getting around 335 ibo with a AM 35. So all i need to do is keep the string lenght the same and shorten one cable how much and make one longer how much? 1/8, 1/4, 1/2? I would like to keep the let off around 75 or 80% since this my hunting bow and I have to draw and wait sometimes.


----------



## Ray knight

Lurch2824 said:


> Ray ive been watching this thread trying to bring alittle more spees to my Maxxis 35. I have the xtr #3 set at 30.5" weight is 61 lbs. Im wanting to do this swap but want to make sure its going to be worth it in the long run. My issue is I have to shoot a long arrow due to my DL and than makes my arrows get heavy fast. My ACC Pro 340 weigh around 440 grains and i would like more speed so i get more KE. Im trying to find some 74 def limbs on here to replace the 84 def i have to give me max 61 or 62 lbs and the cam swap sounds lovely if your getting around 335 ibo with a AM 35. So all i need to do is keep the string lenght the same and shorten one cable how much and make one longer how much? 1/8, 1/4, 1/2? I would like to keep the let off around 75 or 80% since this my hunting bow and I have to draw and wait sometimes.


If you want the most letoff, just keep the stock string size and go 1/8" longer control and 1/8" shorter buss. You will gain speed and have a much better draw cycle and valley. If you want the best performance go 1/2" shorter string and 1/4" shorter buss and stock control.


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## bcbow1971

Ray knows his stuff!! He helped me convert this CRX into basically a Vector Turbo for a buddy. Unfortuanitly my buddy needs money and has to sell it without putting more than 100 arrows through it.....heck it has a set of custom Ray Knight strings and cables on it and the bow is like brand new!! http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1938426


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## Lurch2824

How much weight will it add to draw weight? I have 60 to 70 lbs limbs now but trying to find some 72 def pro arc. What would the difference be with some xt 1000 limbs and what kind of def would i need for 60 lbs??


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## MELLY-MEL

Has anyone put the new 3.2 spyder cams on an element? Imreally am looking into this because i loved the spyder 30 i shot.....but would like a carbon bow with those cams if i could have the same feel, and speed.


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## pol700

Ray,''I was wondering if the RKT cams could be put on a Alphamax 32? And what would the gains would be? Thanks


----------



## Ray knight

MELLY-MEL said:


> Has anyone put the new 3.2 spyder cams on an element? Imreally am looking into this because i loved the spyder 30 i shot.....but would like a carbon bow with those cams if i could have the same feel, and speed.


You can do it but they would likely be harder to tune. The 3.1 would be a better bet. The top ams have almost 2" longer string track on those! The rotation is different with the lower grip of the spider. So if you time them at full draw, the bottom cam will be a bit advanced at rest if you put on the element. Not much though. The transition into the valley is smoother but they will not make more speed and may be harder to tune. I would use the 2012 RKT. Then again, i used the 2.0 RKT on my pro comp elite and it tuned great. Its the opposite of what you want to do. 2012 cam with 2013 lower grip riser.


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## Ray knight

pol700 said:


> Ray,''I was wondering if the RKT cams could be put on a Alphamax 32? And what would the gains would be? Thanks


Yes! I would guess around 10fps but much better draw and valley.


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## RyanH

Ray talked me Into the 2012 also! I would go with what's works for sure! Good luck!


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## pol700

Ray knight said:


> Yes! I would guess around 10fps but much better draw and valley.


Thanks Ray!! i have both the 50-60lb and the 60-70lb. have no issues with the 50-60lb. But the 60-70lb has ahell of a hump and not much valley...


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## Lurch2824

Hey Ray, you have any xts arc limbs you would like to part with? Around 72 def?


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## LNGBOWFLYER

Wow really glad I found this thread. Definately subscribing. So I am definately going to do this to my 2009 Alpha Max 32. I needed to get new cams anyways. I need to go from a #3 cam to a #2 cam. I thought I was a 28" DL but I'm a 26.5-27" DL (rookie mistake when I bought it in 2009). It is also time for new strings and cables. 

My bow is used 90% for hunting. I do a little 3D but just for fun. I have noticed 2 different formulas A "speed mod" and a "smooth mod" if you will. The - 1/8" buss cable / + 1/8" control cable gives you a higher let off which would be really nice for hunting. And the -1/2" string /-1/4 buss cable gives you more speed which would mean more KE which is also nice for hunting. 

So from this I have a few questions. 
#1 which is easier to tune.
#2 What is the speed difference between these two set ups
#3 what is the let off % difference between these two mods. 

Not worried about gaining DW or slight changes in ATA.


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## THwAckZ7

Ttt


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## RyanH

My conversion is done and shooting great! Plan in fining tuning the bow tomorrow! This is a sweet shooting bow!


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## 6xsteelers

just did it to my CRX32






:wink:


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## texast224

Got a matrix I want to convert once I wear the strings out. Anyone notice any change in performance with their bow? 

My matrix drives tacks right now, almost don't want to mess with it for fear of causing some slight variances in the way it shoots.

Thoughts?


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## cervinae

Ray, has hoyt contacted you for employment opportunity? Also, which of the hunting hoyt bows to you consider to be the best STAND ALONE bow...no part swapping.


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## Vector3270

Ray is there anyway to convert my 70lbs crx 32 to say a few lbs lighter with rkt cams and not lose accuracy


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## Ray knight

Vector3270 said:


> Ray is there anyway to convert my 70lbs crx 32 to say a few lbs lighter with rkt cams and not lose accuracy


Without swapping limbs, you can go (compared to stock CRX lengths) 3/8" longer control, 1/8" longer buss and 1/2" shorter string. Draw weight will come down, holding weight percentage will go up. Valley will go away. Your draw will be very linear and smooth. Speed will still be there!


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## Vector3270

hmmmm what would happen if i did that with the fuel cams?


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## Ray knight

Vector3270 said:


> hmmmm what would happen if i did that with the fuel cams?


Thats pretty much how the fuel cams come from the factory! Kind of a mild short string setup. If you use the formula above, they will be really smooth. Valley will be even less though of course! But great holding weight.


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## laffim64

Ray helped me with my 2010 Matrix to RKT and it went great. I used the string lengths Ray mentioned earlier, 1/2" short string and 1/4" shorter buss. I lost 1/2" ATA. I was shooting my GT Velocity Pros at 295 fps (30" DL, 62 lbs) with speed knocks and now my bows maxes out 3 lbs heavier and I am sending those same arrows at 310 fps (30" DL, 65 lbs) without speed knocks. Great conversion. Thanks again Ray.


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## texast224

laffim64 said:


> Ray helped me with my 2010 Matrix to RKT and it went great. I used the string lengths Ray mentioned earlier, 1/2" short string and 1/4" shorter buss. I lost 1/2" ATA. I was shooting my GT Velocity Pros at 295 fps (30" DL, 62 lbs) with speed knocks and now my bows maxes out 3 lbs heavier and I am sending those same arrows at 310 fps (30" DL, 65 lbs) without speed knocks. Great conversion. Thanks again Ray.


Where did you find the cams? Have a 2011 matrix I need to do a conversion on. Shooting 30" draw length at 65 lbs. 

Thx


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## tpepper70

I have an AM 32 I'm thinking about making this swap on. I come from shooting Elites and was use to the generous valley. I was quite surprised at the valley of the xtr cams. I love this bow and shoot it great, but miss that Elite valley. Will this swap give me a better valley?

Get your weapon, your quiver and bow, and go out to the open country to hunt wild game. Genesis 27:3


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## texast224

texast224 said:


> Where did you find the cams? Have a 2011 matrix I need to do a conversion on. Shooting 30" draw length at 65 lbs.
> 
> Thx


That is a matrix plus with fuel cams. Thing wants to jump out if my hands at full draw, think it is affecting my shots at a distance. Could just be me of course, but figure why not upgrade cams and see...


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## Ray knight

texast224 said:


> That is a matrix plus with fuel cams. Thing wants to jump out if my hands at full draw, think it is affecting my shots at a distance. Could just be me of course, but figure why not upgrade cams and see...


The closer the lower control cable loop sits towards the serving, the more letoff and more valley you will get. My Maxxis project was to get maximum draw length and letoff. The loop is almost touching at rest. Thats as far as you can go. The RKT and Fuels are more limited because of this.


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## Vector3270

Ray knight said:


> Thats pretty much how the fuel cams come from the factory! Kind of a mild short string setup. If you use the formula above, they will be really smooth. Valley will be even less though of course! But great holding weight.


Thanks Ray !!!I think thats what ill do I just dont want to shoot 70lbs .Id like to get it too 65 ish .by less of a valley do you mean hump.Any ideas on speeds at a true 27 without loop.1 more ?Can i send my bow to you and how much?


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## Ray knight

Vector3270 said:


> Thanks Ray !!!I think thats what ill do I just dont want to shoot 70lbs .Id like to get it too 65 ish .by less of a valley do you mean hump.Any ideas on speeds at a true 27 without loop.1 more ?Can i send my bow to you and how much?


I would be happy to set it up for you if you want. There is more to the speed formula than the lengths. I can dial it in really well with the fuel cams. They will be real aggressive if you want and 65# is no problem. Email me [email protected]


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## Lurch2824

Hey Ray, I'm very serious about this swap and need alittle input. I just found some 70 def limbs on here and bought them. My question is will those limbs give me 60 lbs or a hair more with a #3 rkt cam? And would you be willing to do my swap for me like your Maxxis 35? 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## Ray knight

Lurch2824 said:


> Hey Ray, I'm very serious about this swap and need alittle input. I just found some 70 def limbs on here and bought them. My question is will those limbs give me 60 lbs or a hair more with a #3 rkt cam? And would you be willing to do my swap for me like your Maxxis 35?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


Should be right at 58-60#. I would be happy to set it up for you.


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## stratton2002

I have a question. I have a 2011 element with #2 cams at 26 in draw. Could I put a number 1 cam and my old string on the same bow and be ok? Will this mess up my limb deflection going from a 2 cam to a 1?


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## F0xtr0t0scar

Hi folks,
Interesting and informative thread - got me thinking...:set1_thinking:

My AlphaMax 35 is drawing fractionally too long for me (27" instead of ~26 1/2") - and I'm thinking of replacing the XR2-TR with RKT cams.
Anyone know if 
a) I can manage to get a shorter draw with the RKT setup, and 
b) where I can get me a set of RKTs in the shorter version?
c) Will I manage to get my poundage down to 60# or under after the mod? - we're stuck at MAX60 in comp here... 

I live in Ireland btw.:darkbeer:

Regards,
Fi


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## superdean00

I have read all the post and just want to make sure. I am gonna do the swap on my Maxxis 31. Should I order RKT 3.0 or RKT 3.1. Draw weight is max 60 now. I would like it around 65#-67#. When I order strings should I get the same cables as XTR or order them a little different?


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## crkelly

Friend of mine has a xtech would this work on his bow and if so would he gain any speed. Thanks.


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## dwagoner

Lurch2824 said:


> Hey Ray, I'm very serious about this swap and need alittle input. I just found some 70 def limbs on here and bought them. My question is will those limbs give me 60 lbs or a hair more with a #3 rkt cam? And would you be willing to do my swap for me like your Maxxis 35?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2



i got 74def on mine and set it up to be 61# max, had some shorter cables and it was bout 63 too. youll like the rkt i actually have matrix with xtr and i dont like it anymore since shooting the maxxisrkt for past few months LOL have another set of rkt to put on matrix also. very nice upgrade... 



Ray knight said:


> Should be right at 58-60#. I would be happy to set it up for you.


this is bout spot on depending on setup....mine has 74def and i got up to 63ish pounds


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## Lurch2824

Yeah I'm hoping for the best. I mailed the bow off to Ray this morning. I'm hoping for the best since, one, I've never had a bow professionally tuned to performance, two, owned a Franken hoyt, three, if the cost of this mod of limbs, cams, tuning by one of AT's finest is going to wow me. Im just waiting to see when she gets back and I slap my sight and stab back on her and give her a spin for alittle while. 


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## crkelly

crkelly said:


> friend of mine has a xtech would this work on his bow and if so would he gain any speed. Thanks.


ttt


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## lonehara

*RKT cam swap*

I would like to thank Ray Knight for all of his help in putting this together. The bow is a K&K Vindicator riser with Obsession sniper xs 42 deflection limbs and the RKT cams. I was shooting for 65lbs and I am currently at 63.5. I had to go with the D mods on the #3RKT cam to get 29.5" of draw length. I have not played with any speed nocks yet and I don't know that I really need them. The chrono speed is a CX 425gr. arrow. The string has the loop,peep etc. The draw cycle of RKT cam is unreal for the speed it delivers. Ray Knight knows his stuff and I cannot thank him enough.


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## therick

Just ordered #2 rkt cams for my AM 35, if I get 2.1's will they still work?


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## kleenkeel

Very interested in doing this mod to my 2011 CRX 32. I originally had my 65lb limbs maxed out and by the end of a 3D shoot my shoulder was sore! I recently dropped down to 58lb draw weight and it has helped but I obviously would like to keep the 65lbs. My CRX draws very hard at the beginning of the cycle, will this help smooth that out???

Where can these cams be purchased? Anybody on here sell them?? Thanks!


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## RickT

ttt


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## Lurch2824

therick said:


> Just ordered #2 rkt cams for my AM 35, if I get 2.1's will they still work?


The 2.1 are different because of the nock travel on the new spyder bows. I don't know if they won't work, I just heard everyone buying the regular RKT cams and that's what the OP told me to do also.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## ELPalmer

Are there any other newer gen. compatible cams for the Alpha Max?


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## Lurch2824

Spirals, z3, fuels,RKT 


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## Lab Trainer

lonehara said:


> i would like to thank ray knight for all of his help in putting this together. The bow is a k&k vindicator riser with obsession sniper xs 42 deflection limbs and the rkt cams. I was shooting for 65lbs and i am currently at 63.5. I had to go with the d mods on the #3rkt cam to get 29.5" of draw length. I have not played with any speed nocks yet and i don't know that i really need them. The chrono speed is a cx 425gr. Arrow. The string has the loop,peep etc. The draw cycle of rkt cam is unreal for the speed it delivers. Ray knight knows his stuff and i cannot thank him enough.


335 ibo

I do not see any speed nocks on your bow though and that could add 5fps?


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## lonehara

Lab Trainer said:


> 335 ibo
> 
> I do not see any speed nocks on your bow though and that could add 5fps?


I know. I still have a ways to go to get it completely set up. I am really liking what I see so far


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## lonehara

Where would be a good place to start with the speed nocks if I measured from the axle down to the first one


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## Lurch2824

Ray knight said:


> I like them close to the cams with RKTs. About 2" seems to pick up the most speed but i suggest install them snug at first but just loose enough that you can move them. Take 5 shots through the chrono at 2" from the cams, 5 shots through the chrono at 4" from the cams. You will see which direction to go next. Just tweak until you pick up the most speed. I like to shoot bare shafts through the chrono when tuning so wind does not have effect on speed as much. You get closer readings and its easier to see what works best.


Here's what ray posted before


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## lonehara

Is there any set number of speed nocks on each end that seems to work best with the RKT cams


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## Lurch2824

Ray knight said:


> Put 5 brass nocks 2.5" from each cam. You should get 4-5 more fps. Time the top cam just a hair fast.


Here. I think ray said 25 grains total weight in one of his post. 


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## Lurch2824

Ray knight said:


> 20-25 grains on each end at 2.5" from the cams. I run 3 "red" nocks at each end which weigh 7.4 each.


Here's the post.


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## therick

Finished my alpha max 35 with 2.0 rkt cam, d mods. 29" DL, 63 lbs, 315 gr cxl, 312 fps. Everything Ray states is spot on. 6 lb increase in DW, which enabled me to grain out on weight, minor adjustment to stock cables, no change in DL or brace hgt. This is a great upgrade all around, smooth draw cycle for that kind of speed, and a much improved valley. Thanks Ray!


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## Lurch2824

So just got a email from Ray Knight. He's finished with my bow. Start:
XTR 3C
Max: 69.88#
Speed maxed out: 276fps (460 grain arrow)
30.5" DL


End:
RKT #3D
Max: 58.76#
Speed maxed out: 268fps (460 grain arrow)
30.6" DL.






























I have a Maxxis 35 with the limbs off a Maxxis 31 for the def I needed to get the weight I wanted. Now the wait till Monday or so before I get my bow back and get to see this super smooth draw Ray said it has.


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## lonehara

lonehara said:


> Is there any set number of speed nocks on each end that seems to work best with the RKT cams


I ended up with 20.5 gr. on each end. The first nock is at 2.25" from the cam. 5 - 6 fps is very doable


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## Lurch2824

That's cool. Makes me want to find a obsession and swap out cams now. 


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## lonehara

Lurch2824 said:


> That's cool. Makes me want to find a obsession and swap out cams now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


I want to thank you for all of your help. This bow is a dream to draw and shoot and it is plenty fast. Very quiet and stable.


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## Lurch2824

Yeah. I shoot a few last year since Dennis is a local boy so to speak and yeah his bow are shocking at how quiet they are and dead in the hand at the shot. As for the thanks, it's not really me helping. I just posted what Ray had put from some other posts on here. He's the man when it comes to this swap and I'm bow stupid so to speak when it comes to tuning. That's why I sent him my bow, plus the couple of shops around my house told me I was crazy to try it. But all and all glad you found the sweet spot for those speed nocks. I'm just waiting to get mine back now. 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## lonehara

Lurch2824 said:


> Yeah. I shoot a few last year since Dennis is a local boy so to speak and yeah his bow are shocking at how quiet they are and dead in the hand at the shot. As for the thanks, it's not really me helping. I just posted what Ray had put from some other posts on here. He's the man when it comes to this swap and I'm bow stupid so to speak when it comes to tuning. That's why I sent him my bow, plus the couple of shops around my house told me I was crazy to try it. But all and all glad you found the sweet spot for those speed nocks. I'm just waiting to get mine back now.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


I have both the Lethal Force and the Sniper XS - They are both very very nice bows. The Vindicator I did the swap on was kind of hard on cables so that is why I did the RKT swap. I also have a Vengeance that does not have the cable troubles that is one of the best shooting bows I have ever owned.


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## Lurch2824

I'm waiting for mine to get back from Ray. Should be here Monday and I'm going to have a new toy to play with. Got a crazy idea of maybe doing this to a Katera to see what it would shoot like and what crazy speeds it would shoot.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## lonehara

The RKT cams on my Vindicator was certainly a pleasant surprise. Ray Knight does know his stuff


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## deerhuntinsunof

If there a bow of the newer models the rkt cams won't work on lol

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## Ray knight

deerhuntinsunof said:


> If there a bow of the newer models the rkt cams won't work on lol
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


PSEs. Their cams barely move the limbs! If you see a 60# bow with some crazy high deflection limbs, do not put RKTs on it. The RKT cams use a lot of limb travel. So if you must on say a PSE, you would set the ATA about 2" longer to allow for the extra travel. May not work well but could be magic! One way to find out. The Contender/Contender Elite platform so far remains the best with RKT cams. Its about as perfect as a cam system can be! Smoother than any factory cam option and quite a bit more speed.


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## Lab Trainer

I am thinking now I need a Contender finger bow with RKT cams maybe 3000 limbs probably 3500 limbs..


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## deerhuntinsunof

I'm thinking if I get this quad sold soon I'm going to do some playing with different platforms so I may be asking you a lot of questions ray lol

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## harveywallhangr

How does the RKT cam feel compared to the reflex cam that was on the ridgeline and the reflex charger? I shot one that was set on 70lbs and thought it was the smoothest cam I ever shot.


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## kx5shooter

Going to do this swap on my crx 32. About how much letoff and speed do you lose between the between the two string setups.


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## Colesce

Can I swap the M4 cams for RKT cams on my Rampage (not xt)


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## Lurch2824

kx5shooter said:


> Going to do this swap on my crx 32. About how much letoff and speed do you lose between the between the two string setups.


You don't lose speed or let off. You'll gain some speed. Let off will be the same. You'll gain super smooth draw, better valley, solid back wall. You can slowly let down the bow without it ripping your arm off like the fuel cams do. You'll gain alittle draw weight from the swap. Best to ask Ray all the info you need to do or see if he'll do it for you. 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## Lurch2824

Colesce said:


> Can I swap the M4 cams for RKT cams on my Rampage (not xt)


I think you can. Don't see why you couldn't do the swap. Have to ask Ray to be sure and to make sure the cable lengths are what he's been saying they need to be. 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## Lurch2824

So I got my bow back today and all I can say is its been a long time since I shot a bow that put a crap eating grin on my face the first time I shot it. I made a mistake of only shooting my bag from 10 yards away shooting, my arrow almost through it. But 3 fletchings later and a couple more arrows, this is a awesome swap to do. Pulling butter is good way to put the draw cycle. Smooth, oh is it so smooth. I was shocked when I pulled it back. Anyone that wants this swap done, do it!! My hat off to you Ray Knight, because my bow more than I expected it to be. And I'll be sending you a few more later down the road too.


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## DavidBLingo

I did this conversion on my CRX 35. I like not having that "hump" at the end of the draw cycle and the smoother "roll over" into the wall. I haven't checked for what speed I'm getting. I seem to be holding steadier on the target than with the fuel cams.


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## Lurch2824

I don't have any hump. It's a smooth pull all the way back to nothing. And yeah it steady. No floating sight here. I was expecting to have to pull to get it to go back and started my normal pull and it was wow I about to rip my draw stop off. Ray has this thing set where I can pull it back in all kinda of screwed up positions when hunting with no problem. It's that easy to pull back. I honestly thought I had my wife's bow the first time I pulled it back. It's that smooth and that light of a pull at 59 lbs. And yeah fuel cams sucked. I shot a couple of different bows with those cams and not for me at even 60 lbs. To harsh of a draw cycle. 


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## Hoytusa#1

Have you tried this with the new pro comp xl?


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## redwzrd1

Colesce said:


> Can I swap the M4 cams for RKT cams on my Rampage (not xt)


i have an xt that im setting up as a hunting bow and plan on swapping to the rkt cams. the m4s creep to much and the rkt have a better back wall i want for that bow


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## Whitetail88Arch

Alright Ray you're probably tired of all of these questions but I have a couple myself. I have a 2010 carbon matrix with XTR's it is currently set at 27.5" using a #2 cam and the module is in the B position. Would u suggest 2012 or 2013 rkt's. and I'm thinking I would like to keep closer to a 80% let off which is what I was thinking you were doing at the get go. By removing 2.5 twists from the control cable and adding 3 twists to the bus cable. I'm pretty sure if I get 2012 rkt's I just need a #2 cam and the module b right? 

Now another thing is there any way to take the XTR's and put them on the Katera? And do you thing it would be beneficial? I'm going to be giving it to my cousin who is paralyzed from the waist down so I think less holding weight would do him better. 
Thanks a bunch in advance, Adam


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## Thansen

Ordered rkt cams for my 2011element today. Thanks for all the great info Ray.


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## Reverend

Anyone know what would happen if I switched from a #3 RKT to a #2 RKT? How much weight would the limbs gain?


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## Lurch2824

I'd say 2 or 3 lbs. 


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## Franco C

I am new to shooting compound bows. Read up a bit and spoke to some guys. (found this forum full of exiting info). I went out and bought myself a second hand Carbon Element (virtually new) with Fuel cams. Now this bow has a 28” DL and I am a bit short and need to change this to a 26”. After reading forum after forum I am trying to get hold of a set #2 RKT cams. I am waiting for this to be delivered to the outlet that will be fitting the cams and new strings. (I am in South Africa). What do I need to know in order to get the correct draw length from this setup?


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## Birds_Eye

Franco, the module position is "A" for the 26" dl. Just make sure it has the "A" on the RKT module. For my CE 2011, I went with the 2011 string strengths. I felt the draw was better compare for my friend's CE 2012 RKT.


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## warrbuk

subscribed


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## 3-D For Life

Reverend said:


> Anyone know what would happen if I switched from a #3 RKT to a #2 RKT? How much weight would the limbs gain?


going from the #3 cam to a #2 cam you will loose 5lbs.


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## XxRAGEnHOYTxX

Anyone know how I can get rkt #1 cams and 40-50# limbs, I'm looking to change my 2011 carbon element (60-70/fuel#2) to a woman's element with vixen limbs for my wife..is it even possible??


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## LostHawg

I did the swap on a 2010 Matrix. DL stayed the same, poundage went up #5lbs, specs were real close but my let off is less. 
I synced the cams and followed the directions on here. Cant figure it out but it doesn't feel nearly as smooth or have a wall like my AE with RKTs.
I messaged RK and Im going to get him to make me some strings and cables. Hopefully the string is the missing link. Just wanted to add my experience.


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## Archer1985

Ray Knight thanks! She is a beaut!


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## gundyman

Hi from Australia,

I have a maxxis 35 and have swapped rkt2 from xtr 2.
Draw length 28in previous 62# now at 68#.
Top cam slightly under rotated. 
Bow normally 60-70 would like to stay in that range.

So I am guessing from this amazing thread, to keep original specs that I need to add 1/8 to buss 1/4 to control and 1/8 to string.

Is that correct?

Thanks again for the great info.

I have spoken to a few in australia and have been told it can't be done.


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## Clayton86

I was gonna buy a new bow after this season but I think I might just do this swap on my rampage XT with some new strings


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## CareyHamil

Does anybody have a set of rh #2 rkt cams for sale!


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## Ray knight

gundyman said:


> Hi from Australia,
> 
> I have a maxxis 35 and have swapped rkt2 from xtr 2.
> Draw length 28in previous 62# now at 68#.
> Top cam slightly under rotated.
> Bow normally 60-70 would like to stay in that range.
> 
> So I am guessing from this amazing thread, to keep original specs that I need to add 1/8 to buss 1/4 to control and 1/8 to string.
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks again for the great info.
> 
> I have spoken to a few in australia and have been told it can't be done.


First thing is to set your timing. If the top cam is slow, put a few twists IN the yokes or take a few out of the control cable. Weight will pick up a little by twisting the buss as you need to get the timing correct. A longer string will add weight and open the valley up a bit as well.


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## Hoyt Hunter1

So I can do this to my TurboHawk?


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## Alpha Burnt

marked


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## E popa

Will this work on a charger ? And has anyone done it?


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## crookedpinky

Just did this mod to my '11 matrix. Great mod. The guys at Mn Archery in Lichfield,mn did the work. Would recommend them for anything you need done.


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## Ridgerunner7

I have two #3 RKT cams for sale. 90$


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## jackson1031

what about an RKT cam swap on the hoyt charger?


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## bighunter

I have a stars and stripes hoyt cybertec that originally had the hoyt single cam setup on it. how would this work on that bow?


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## Tuningfreak

Hi Ray. Stumbled across this. I have a 2010 Maxxis 35, #3 XTR, 50-60#. Have not had luck (so far) selling it at a reasonable price before my Faktor 34 arrives. So after reading this thread, now Im thinking I should rebuild the bow with Rockets for my son who is stationed out of my state with the Air Force and had his bow equipment stolen from his garage. I would need #2 Rockets for him and would also like to keep the draw weight the same- 50-60#. 

What is your suggestion for cams and string cable lengths to accomplish this? Is it worth the investment or should I just dump the Maxxis and look for a used bow wearing the Rockets already?

Thanks for your input!


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## Old Slick

Subs


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## Joe Schnur

Ask ray knight he is the undeniable expert


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## kootenayhunter

Awsome thread. Thanks


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## DOHC20

so does anyone know where to find the best price on a set of #2 RKT cams, any dealers that will sell online?? I need to do this conversion as my draw length with #3 Fuels is too long...


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## chuyler82

Tagged for future swap


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## superdean00

marked for later


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## bighunter

I bought a set of rkt #3 with e mods before I found that I needed #2 cams. If anyone is interested I paid $108 for them. They are silver.


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## db102550

subscribed.


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## jamoose16

subscribed great info!


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## buckwild13

Ok so what cam swap works best for alphaburners


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## Wil

My question is this... Will a hoyt dealer make this cam swap for you? Or will he say that it isn't safe and refuse to do it for liability reasons?


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## snort wheeze

I was shooting a Carbon Element with no. 2 rkt cams. I bought a Carbon Spyder 34 with the new Z5 cams and thought it was smoother. I sent my Element to Archery Shack for new strings and had the cams changed to Z5 cams. I like it so much that I'm shooting it over the Carbon Spyder. If you're going to swap cams think about the Z5's I think you'll be glad you did.


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## jamoose16

Hi 
I'm reasonably new to working on bows and have attacked this mod. I'm running into some challenges and I'm hoping you all can help me get straightened out.

For the project I purchased a used AM 35, with #2 XTR cams, the bow is 60-70# and the limbs are "86 e" deflection. Apparently the bow had been worked on prior...the cables and strings were slightly different colors and when i pulled the cams, there was a broken bushing and one of the c clips was loose. I'm guessing that the bow had a #3 cam prior as a spare set of 3 cams came with the bow. I don't know if the cables and strings are for a #2 or #3 cam. 

I'm moving to a #3 RKT cam (29.5 inch draw) and when I moved the threads over the timing was way off. ATA was squatted to around 33.5 and the cams were way out of synch. I took the threads off, relaxed the bow and...here I am. 

Couple questions:
* Am I right to assume that I need new cables and string? Given how far off things were I think I have a set for a #2 cam which will not move to a #3
* if that's right, can anyone tell me the lengths to order? I went through the thread and I think I see them, but would like to be doubly sure
* Where can I get new bushings for the cams and how can I be sure I'm buying the right ones? 
* with these limbs and the #3 RKT cams, will the bow come in between 65-75#? anything I can do to lower the range back closer to 60-70#?

thanks for all the help!


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## Cocoon Man

Ray I have a Hoyt Vectrix XL 29 inch draw. I want to change the draw length to 28.5 can not find any 28.5 cams so I was thinking of converting to RKT cams as they are available and are smoother. Is this a option?


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## Shawn Mc

I went ahead and did this Mod on my Rampage XT, and i am impressed, as well as adding some speed nocks, with a 370 grain arrow, bow set @70# and a 29" draw i got speeds around 317 fps, previously speeds were 299. I also shot a 405 grain arrow and got speeds of 312 fps. A 420 grain arrow gave me 306 fps and a 450 grain arrow gave me 290 fps. This has to be one of the best things i have done, and it annoys the crap out of a mate who just brought a Chill R that my $400(plus $90 for the mods) 2012 bow is out shooting his $1400 2014 bow, (we are both equal in our shooting and challenge each other when we are out), if anyone has any doubts about this mod, i say don't give it a second thought and do it, you won't look back. Thanks Ray for your detailed info on how to do the change as it makes it a walk in the park, all done in half an hour.


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## mongopino915

Shawn Mc said:


> I went ahead and did this Mod on my Rampage XT, and i am impressed, as well as adding some speed nocks, with a 370 grain arrow, bow set @70# and a 29" draw i got speeds around 317 fps, previously speeds were 299. I also shot a 405 grain arrow and got speeds of 312 fps. A 420 grain arrow gave me 306 fps and a 450 grain arrow gave me 290 fps. This has to be one of the best things i have done, and it annoys the crap out of a mate who just brought a Chill R that my $400(plus $90 for the mods) 2012 bow is out shooting his $1400 2014 bow, (we are both equal in our shooting and challenge each other when we are out), if anyone has any doubts about this mod, i say don't give it a second thought and do it, you won't look back. Thanks Ray for your detailed info on how to do the change as it makes it a walk in the park, all done in half an hour.


The RKT cams are about as fast as they come these days, smooth, and with a nice valley. Totally cool to have the feeling of a new/different bow without actually buying one.


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## FoggDogg

Tagged


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## THawk42

Anybody know how string lengths would need to change if using Spyder 3.1 cams instead of plain 3s on a swap from Fuel?


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## PDL1999

THawk42 said:


> Anybody know how string lengths would need to change if using Spyder 3.1 cams instead of plain 3s on a swap from Fuel?


around page 14 there is a note about this 3.1 it is far easier if you can find #3.0 rkt, I just did AM 32 last night, did not gain only a pound but strings are original factory. Draws nice ATA is spot on. Will shoot it tomorrow.


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## jmduep

I got 30 and 29.5 mods. Off rkt. I need 29s any traders


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## websterda44

I saw this thread it it made me curious enough to try it. I always thought the alphamax was a good looking bow and I prefer its limb angle a little better vs where they went with the 34's at my draw length. I got a great deal on an alphamax, tracked down a set of cams, and within 20 minutes I was shooting a 488 grain arrow 296fps with a 31" draw at about 74#. The xtr's shot the same arrow at 281 with 30.5 draw and 70#. Very impressed with the gains and how the bow feels. I need to do a little more tuning, but after swapping cams and getting them timed it was still shooting a perfect bullet hole without touching a thing on the restor nock point. After trying 2 Spyder 34's and just not meshing with them, I have to say this bow could be the first Hoyt that agrees with me!


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## Stick*Flipper

On-board


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## Stick*Flipper

Got some new RKT #3 cams putting them on my 2009 AM 35 with the c mods took it to my friend that manages the archery dept at sportsman's warehouse. Also a new 60x string set along with the specs given out here. Hopefully this will work out. Was sitting at 68.5# and 30 in draw. Shooting 400 gr arrows at 305 fps. Update to follow. Thanks for all the information big +++++ to Ray Knight.


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## shoot2thrill25

I'm plannin on doing my maxxis this spring. Haven't read anything negative about it yet


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## proelite pimp1

Anyone know what version of the rkt cams you need. Hoyt has 3.0 3.1 3.2


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## Stick*Flipper

*Awesome conversion*

I am so happy with my new old Alphamax 35 . Poundage went up to 75. The draw is so smooth the back wall is solid shooting 400 gr arrows at 312 fps saved a pile of money vs buying a new bow and I have tried the new 2016 lineup from Hoyt. Cost me $160 to do the conversion vs 1400$ for a new bow. Thanks Ray and all who posted. Special thanks to My friend Tom Jobe at Sportsman's warehouse Riverdale Utah. He did the work and got her paper tuned to shoot bullet holes. Now where is that deer I am looking for.


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## deereguy62

I may have to try this


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## newbowthunder

Yes finally found the tread lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## bloodtrail1

tagged


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## warrbuk

I have a set of RH #3 RKT's if someone is looking. PM me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mikehoffman

Ray knight said:


> Just finished my 8th RKT cam swap. I documented everything on the last few. ALL were VERY consistent. To start, From Fuel or XTR to RKT is almost a direct swap! Cams will fit exactly the same in the limbs. Shims are the same, everything. Just jot down where they were on your old cams and you are good to go. When you install your strings you will notice EXTREME top cam under-rotation. To correct this, and of all 8 bows this is where they all timed exactly. Assuming you had your timing correct before!! Remove 2.5 twists from your control cable and add 3 twists to your buss cable. Your draw length should stay exactly the same and you should only gain 2-4# depending on your limbs (my Am35 gained 6#). On the last one i did tonight, it was a 60# Alpha Elite with #3 fuels. I went from peak weight of 58.63# to peak weight of 60.67#. Now, here is the part that you will like! Set to exactly 58.63# with the fuels it shot through the chrono with a 368 grain Easton fatboy 400 at 303fps. With the RKT cams set to the EXACT same 58.63# with the very same arrow, it shot 311fps. Thats an 8fps gain with zero other changes. Same string, same speed nocks, same timing, same draw weight. 8fps is great but, the REAL gain is the draw cycle and valley is greatly improved. It feels much more "locked in" at full draw and does not want to rip your arm off like the fuel cams if you start to let up. The wall is rock solid, same as the fuel and XTR cam but its far easier to hold! So in conclusion this is a great upgrade for any bow with XTR or Fuel cams. You will gain speed and get a far better draw cycle and valley.


Does anybody know how to get ahold of Mr. Ray Knight? Would like to pick his brain for some info
Thanks


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## Mikehoffman

Mikehoffman said:


> Does anybody know how to get ahold of Mr. Ray Knight? Would like to pick his brain for some info
> Thanks


Nevermind, my apologies


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## Old Slick

Tagged


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## hoyt em all

the z5 changeover works even better at-lest on my trykon xl. it lost DW . that was a good thing for me


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## Mikehoffman

Anybody try this on a Vulcan?


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## kc hay seed

I just had the Z-3`S on my matrix changed to Z-5`s it kept the poundage about the same as the Z-3`s I really like the smoothness of the draw but am not to fond of the short valley being an old coot.I also have a 2013 Alpha Elite with the with the R.K.T. CAMS I think they are one of the smoothest cams Hoyt has made so far and may put them on the Matrix before it is all over with.


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## WALKER7036

Tagged


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## azscorpion

Best cam ever!


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## doublelung76

tagged


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## Hoythunter01

Need anyone's advise who has done this mod with the Alphamax 35 #3 XTR cam.

Ordered a set of strings from Twisted X. 
String - 58.0
Buss - 37.50
Control - 39.75

Took the strings out of the baggie and straight to the bow. (Excellent End Loops) So, for an AtoA, I get 35" right on the money. 35 3/8" is Hoyt spec. Brace Height is long by about 3/32". I get that with the short AtoA now.

According to what people have said, the specs shouldn't have changed. Even the OP said that several times throughout the thread. Also, I never took any twists out or put any in according to what Ray Knight said to do to get these cams right. (They are the #3's and not 3.1, 3.2) Still, with taking two out and putting two in, I am not going to make up 3/8".

What has anyone encountered in this swap ? Funny how most get same results and I don't. What is the problem here ??

Wish I could tag Ray Knight in this thread.


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## TNKnoxville

I did the swap on a 2010 matrix, my ata gained 3/4" and I have almost no valley. I'm using stock strings. Haven't played with the cables or stings yet.


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## avidarcher88pa

Hoythunter01 said:


> Need anyone's advise who has done this mod with the Alphamax 35 #3 XTR cam.
> 
> Ordered a set of strings from Twisted X.
> String - 58.0
> Buss - 37.50
> Control - 39.75
> 
> Took the strings out of the baggie and straight to the bow. (Excellent End Loops) So, for an AtoA, I get 35" right on the money. 35 3/8" is Hoyt spec. Brace Height is long by about 3/32". I get that with the short AtoA now.
> 
> According to what people have said, the specs shouldn't have changed. Even the OP said that several times throughout the thread. Also, I never took any twists out or put any in according to what Ray Knight said to do to get these cams right. (They are the #3's and not 3.1, 3.2) Still, with taking two out and putting two in, I am not going to make up 3/8".
> 
> What has anyone encountered in this swap ? Funny how most get same results and I don't. What is the problem here ??
> 
> Wish I could tag Ray Knight in this thread.


I swapped out a maxxis 35 with Rays help and had no problems. Wish I could be of more help. I'm sure specs are different. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Hoythunter01

Bump this back up for some answers.


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## 10thumbs

I have a question which I think I have the answer for but want to make sure.
I have a Rampage xt, it currently has #3 fuel cams. I would like to switch to #2 RKT cams for a 26.5" draw length and smoother draw.
My question is would I have string/cables made up the same length as for the #2 fuel cams and use them on the RKT cam install.
Thanks


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## 10thumbs

Found the answer.


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## Rhmorris92

This is good stuff


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## frog gigger

Hoythunter01 said:


> Bump this back up for some answers.


I've done the same swap, same results as you. 
Never found the answer, wasn't worth the effort I was making, back to xtr's.


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## Hoythunter01

It was frustrating trying to figure this out with no help from the OP.

I ended up with a 35 1/8 AtoA and a 7" Brace height to maintain the 60 pound limbs. 

Got her to shoot pretty good. Cam spacing is critical with the lower cam. Just wish it was all the hype that was mentioned by the OP. It is not......


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## frog gigger

Hoythunter01 said:


> It was frustrating trying to figure this out with no help from the OP.
> 
> I ended up with a 35 1/8 AtoA and a 7" Brace height to maintain the 60 pound limbs.
> 
> Got her to shoot pretty good. Cam spacing is critical with the lower cam. Just wish it was all the hype that was mentioned by the OP. It is not......


That's agreeable.


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## Bow Predator

Tagged


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## V-TRAIN

it has been a long time since i did it, and honestly i can't remember how i got my strings made.
i have gone thru so many different bows, i just can't remember them all.

i remember i did mine on a element and went from fuel to rkt, went from a 70lb bow to about a 83# bow.
i used it for about 4 seasons and killed 26 or 27 deer with it shooting 348 grain arrows, lol
it would shatter shoulder blades was great, but i moved on.

i am sure i could look back and find my posts of how i did it. i remember talking to Ray over the phone about it, he was a super nice guy.
i know spikecamp on here did it also, i remember calling and talking to him, he was a super nice guy also.


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## Puaa247

Tagged


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JonnyVain

Hey guys. Anyone know where to find fuel cams? I need a set of #3.

Thanks.


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## ShootingABN!

JonnyVain said:


> Hey guys. Anyone know where to find fuel cams? I need a set of #3.
> 
> Thanks.


Welcome to AT. You might want to look in the classifieds or brand specific sections instead of here. Is the Fuel cam an Hoyt or Bowtech?


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## V-TRAIN

Try ebay also


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## JonnyVain

ShootingABN! said:


> Welcome to AT. You might want to look in the classifieds or brand specific sections instead of here. Is the Fuel cam an Hoyt or Bowtech?


Hoyt Rampage XT.



V-TRAIN said:


> Try ebay also


No luck there. Called a bunch of shops. Hoyt doesn't have them. I'll check the classifieds but it looks like there's a restriction for new members.


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## mtn. archer

Try Hoffman's archery shop in Warrenton va. He will mail them if he has them.good man to deal with


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## Puaa247

Try look at AT classified under strings cams. I thought I saw some fuels for sale


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## huckms

JonnyVain said:


> Hoyt Rampage XT.
> 
> 
> 
> No luck there. Called a bunch of shops. Hoyt doesn't have them. I'll check the classifieds but it looks like there's a restriction for new members.


Did you have any luck finding the cams?


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