# Alternatives to Easton X10 Protour - what are they?



## SupraFreak

Are the Easton X10 Protour the only game in town for true high end competitive archery? Is there any other arrow that has the stability, performance and winning pedigree?

When I see things like "127 out of 128 competitors use X10 Protours" and "X10 Protours hold more records than any other arrow" I can see a little justification of the almost $500/dozen price tag but my wallet just can't accept that hit.

What are the "almost as good" alternatives for those of us that aren't competing on the Olympic scale?

Thanks!


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## JF from VA

Carbon Express Nanos, Carbon Express Medallions, Black Eagle X-Impacts, Victory VAPs, Easton ACGs, Easton ACCs


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## RatherBArchery

BEA Deep Impacts are a little cheaper but shoot well too. I personally am getting away from the micro shaft phase myself and are using standard size shafts now with great results..,.


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## SupraFreak

Now the pricing on those Carbon Express Medallions looks like my price range.  However .0025 vs. .0015 tolerance isn't as impressive.

Black Eagles are .001 and about double what I can buy the PSE Carbon Force Radial X-Weave Ravens for but I think the shaft is closer to the X10s.

Theres all different versions of the Victory VAP - Elite, V1, V3, V6, Sport, Gamer, etc. Which ones are comparable? (looks like v1 are .001 straightness)

Are the A/C/E, A/C/G and A/C/C really comparable?

I sincerely appreciate the discussion!


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## cbrunson

SupraFreak said:


> Now the pricing on those Carbon Express Medallions looks like my price range.  However .0025 vs. .0015 tolerance isn't as impressive.
> 
> Black Eagles are .001 and about double what I can buy the PSE Carbon Force Radial X-Weave Ravens for but I think the shaft is closer to the X10s.
> 
> Theres all different versions of the Victory VAP - Elite, V1, V3, V6, Sport, Gamer, etc. Which ones are comparable? (looks like v1 are .001 straightness)
> 
> Are the A/C/E, A/C/G and A/C/C really comparable?
> 
> I sincerely appreciate the discussion!


If you can shoot better than a properly set up ACG will allow, you wouldn't even need to ask this question.


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## bigHUN

All depend what you would be using for and how far you want to reach.
If you want to progress well shooting FITA long ranges the x10' and the nano pro's are the best options and no not 500 but more likely about 700+ will be a final bill.
If you go shooting Field I would suggest not to use the above shafts but go a bit cheaper with let say nano XR's...no aluminum core shafts can survive that game with constant abuse, but you still need smallest OD shafts for the 80 yard shots + when the elements kicks in.
There are cheaper alternatives from other brands but no wide spread evidence those brands/models can score well enough for a price difference.


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## JF from VA

Maybe you should state what your application is and what your average scores are. I think you stated you were not shooting on an Olympic scale. The Easton carbon/aluminum shafts, ACE, ACG, and ACCs have been around for years and are certainly quality arrows.


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## Tollhouse75

What has anyone heard of the Cartel Triple shafts?


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## grantmac

Straightness really isn't that critical compared to spine consistency. From the feedback I've seen the Nano Pro outperforms the X10 there. Most serious shooters are buying 2 dozen X10 to make a competitive dozen, at least at the highest levels of recurve shooting.

But in all honesty if you are currently shooting a standard hunting shaft and want to get into target then the VAP V3 will be all you need for a good long time. Go with the heaviest points (140gr) and some sub 2" vanes along with SS pins and quality (Bieter) nocks.

-Grant


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## duc

Triples are good. Very underrated.


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## Wookster

Nanos, really good arrow. black eagles are great for the price, light too but they are a big dia arrow compared to a X10 or Nano. but I think they get blown about quite a bit over 50M.


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## Mahly

Black Eagle deep impact, VAPs for a budget minded archer.
Carbon tech McKinny II for a moderate budget.
Nano pro for higher (but not x10) budget.

I'm actually going to try some of the Black Eagle 300s with 140gn tips and GasPro vanes.
Should be pretty good in the wind.

That said, this is really kind of a gear thing. Advanced gear perhaps....


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## Reed

depends what rounds you are going to be shooting. I see very little sense in getting a shaft like the X10 if you are only shooting 720 rounds. full fita's maybe but not shooting at 50M


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## XForce Girl

Seems the Black Eagles and VAPS are a great choice. 

One of my JOAD Girls took bronze at Gator Cup shooting Black Eagles, and shooting up a class against older kids.

Everyone I shot against at Nationals had x10's and I still won with my VAPS. I cannot and will not pay the money for the Protours. I cant justify it.


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## Lazarus

Mahly said:


> Carbon tech McKinny II for a moderate budget.


I will second the above. 

I have always found (any) Carbon Tech shaft to be better than advertised.

After a couple of months of battling with some of the less expensive options that have been mentioned above with less than acceptable results I started shooting the McKinney ll's. I couldn't be happier. I bought a dozen shafts to start out with, I ended up with a dozen that all hit the middle. A month later I still have a dozen that all hit the middle. They are fairly reasonably priced and appear to produce the spine consistency that some companies advertise but may not produce. 

If you try the McKinney ll's I think you will be happy.


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## rohpenguins

I have never shot the X-10 pro tours I cannot justify the price. I really like the ACG's and BEA X impacts. I am sure they perform as well as any other arrow out there in the hands of anything short of a world class archer. I am also skeptical of stats that say brand x has more victories world wide than brand x, y, and combined. Remember you can make stats say what you want then to 90 percent of the time.


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## SonnyThomas

SupraFreak said:


> Are the Easton X10 Protour the only game in town for true high end competitive archery? Is there any other arrow that has the stability, performance and winning pedigree?
> 
> When I see things like "127 out of 128 competitors use X10 Protours" and "X10 Protours hold more records than any other arrow" I can see a little justification of the almost $500/dozen price tag but my wallet just can't accept that hit.
> 
> What are the "almost as good" alternatives for those of us that aren't competing on the Olympic scale?
> 
> Thanks!


For the underlined, any FITA legal top end arrow should well get the job done. I shot Field pretty decent using Carbon Express CXL 250s. .355" diameter, .0025" straightness. Today, if I shot Field again, I'd go with a carbon diameter arrow of .265" to .295" and .001" straightness.


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## bigHUN

In a calm weather any heavy (at least 360 grains) arrow with a high FOC will or could fly to 70 meters or 80 yards if the arrows were prepared with most attention. 
When the elements = wind/rain starts messing with the game only the smallest OD shafts can save you some scores. 
In past years I had 50/50 situation with a weather cooperating, but I could not know many weeks ahead of time when I registered the tournaments....
Does it worth investing into a dual target setup? One for nano's/x10's what are so so windproof and the other for larger OD line cutters only for sunny days?
I've been there, I had specific arrows for specific games, thaaaat was costing me arms and legs, not because of the carbon shafts but drawers full with arrow parts....
2-3 years ago I sold everything and keeping now a single arrow size, I don't want line cutters because if I miss just that much I don't deserve that score. Smaller OD's will make me work harder and that is a pay off.


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## JardelBR

I shoot Black Eagle X-Impacts and I think they're great outdoor arrows.


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## SupraFreak

I apologize for not responding. Ive been doing "research". I can now refine the requirements.

Im looking for a small diameter, light arrow for my son. Again, he is shooting (currently) 35# Hoyt Sierratech compound. (Yes, it is an older bow). Indoor and Outdoor out to 50yds. He is 13yrs old and just started shooting JOAD.

X10 and CE Nano are out of my price range. Im trying to stay under $200 and the closer to $100 for a dozen, the better.

I want pin nocks, something like the Fusion X 2" target vanes and 70-80 grain breakoff tips. Draw length is 25" and Im planning on getting 26" arrows carbon to carbon.

I have explored Dear Crossing Archery, Gold Tip, Victory, Black Eagle, PSE and Carbon Express.

Im currently leaning towards Easton Carbon One 810's. Just trying to get the best arrow I can get for a decent price.With the new details, Im interested in hearing why the Carbon Ones are (or aren't) a good choice and what a good or betetr choice might be, and why. The one thing I don't like about the Carbon Ones is .003 straightness where the higher dollar CE/Easton are .001 but Im told the consistency of the Carbon Ones make them a good choice.

Comments?


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## montigre

For a few people at my club, the Carbon Ones have had SERIOUS issues with the shafts splintering after several shots--they no longer use them and have all switched to different brands. 

For a youth shooter, I'd recommend the Carbon Express Medallion XR shafts cut from both ends to maximize straightness. They are very sturdy (even at the lighter spines), have an acceptable price point, and a wide enough spine range to grow with your son. http://www.carbonexpressarrows.com/archery/target-arrows/medallion--xr They are not a mico shaft (which he really does not need now), but are FITA legal and would work well for indoor and outdoor events.


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## grantmac

SupraFreak said:


> I apologize for not responding. Ive been doing "research". I can now refine the requirements.
> 
> Im looking for a small diameter, light arrow for my son. Again, he is shooting (currently) 35# Hoyt Sierratech compound. (Yes, it is an older bow). Indoor and Outdoor out to 50yds. He is 13yrs old and just started shooting JOAD.
> 
> X10 and CE Nano are out of my price range. Im trying to stay under $200 and the closer to $100 for a dozen, the better.
> 
> I want pin nocks, something like the Fusion X 2" target vanes and 70-80 grain breakoff tips. Draw length is 25" and Im planning on getting 26" arrows carbon to carbon.
> 
> I have explored Dear Crossing Archery, Gold Tip, Victory, Black Eagle, PSE and Carbon Express.
> 
> Im currently leaning towards Easton Carbon One 810's. Just trying to get the best arrow I can get for a decent price.With the new details, Im interested in hearing why the Carbon Ones are (or aren't) a good choice and what a good or betetr choice might be, and why. The one thing I don't like about the Carbon Ones is .003 straightness where the higher dollar CE/Easton are .001 but Im told the consistency of the Carbon Ones make them a good choice.
> 
> Comments?


VAP V6 100%.

800 spine will be a little stiff but could grow with him. Pins nocks will work find. AAE PM 2.0 vanes would be my preference.

Straightness is REALLY not important. More than anything it's a market tool. For someone like your son durability and cost would be foremost, followed by weight. VAPs are a tough, light arrow that doesn't break the bank.

If you want to go even more budget (but still excellent) the Gold Tip Warrior 700 would be a REALLY solid way to go. Easily built for under $90 a dozen and they are the same shaft as the Ultralight Entrada.

-Grant


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## crushedeiffel

Any of those brand can do, 
For X10 the 2 dozen bought to get 12 shootable seems sadly true now. Some are using a shooting machine to make batches of arrows.
http://www.francearcherie.com/page-articlespages-techniques-&-infos-81.html
If you get cheaper shafts, you can buy more and pick the ones that go together on the target.
If you can not single out the 'bad' arrows, then they all are good enough for you.

Curently shooting Carbon express nano SST 600 after restarting archery, on 68" 34# second hand uukha ex1 at 29". I still have X10 500 of the last century stored for 40# uukha ?
Riser is a Dal Monte Spigarelli


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## caspian

mmm... I suggest that anyone who thinks they can pick the "bad" arrows out of a batch of X10s or Protours should be winning every tournament in sight. that they're not is perhaps more of a commentary on them than the arrows?


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## crushedeiffel

Well, starting to reach 310 at 70m you can.
It's tedious, marking each impact position per arrow (polar coordinates, then excel) then you get an average point of impact for each (do it at least 10 times). Exclude the ones farthest from the others. 
Look at http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8937/intermediaireall2.jpg , you can see that most arrow have a tendency to be around some place. Or that the grouping varies by arrow.

top right target the numbers being where the impacts are without sight adjustment 10 goes anywhere 11 is better nut on the right etc...

You might be better spending your time training properly. That's something I used to do on my palm during competitions (you are waiting a lot anyway at these events when not shooting ABC).

Actually, It's more usefull to pick up a damaged arrow before losing too many points than for choosing the best from a new batch at this level.


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## chilipowder

caspian said:


> mmm... I suggest that anyone who thinks they can pick the "bad" arrows out of a batch of X10s or Protours should be winning every tournament in sight. that they're not is perhaps more of a commentary on them than the arrows?


Yes I agree. I regularly shoot 340 to 345's at 50m 6 ring with my training set of Carbon One's at 1/3 the cost of X10's. This is with flogged nocks and a few pins which could use replacing. In fact my X10's don't get pulled out enough as my Carbon One's are that good. I always get a good laugh at the range when they show up with new Nano's and X10's and start "tuning them" when they can't even group the size of the gold. More people need to realise you don't need to pay a king's ransom on arrows to shoot good scores. A well made set of reasonable arrows will go much farther for the overwhelming majority of archers.


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## Sasquech

Use wraps on what ever you use as the vanes will pull off carbon if attached properly I shoot carbon ones and have no splintering . Just use wraps for fletching


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## montigre

Wraps add additional weight to the back of the shaft which can limit your son's spine choices a little at his lower draw weight. If you properly clean and prepare the arrow shafts prior to fletching them, you will have no problems with the vanes coming off. 

One of the people I mentioned who had issues with Carbon Ones splintering is a 4 time national field champion, who I believe knows how to put an arrow together. But, shoot what you want and learn your own lessons....


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## kballer1

Been using Carbon Ones for 1 1/2 years with out any problem, but I do use wraps that are 1/4" longer than my 187FF vanes. Have not had 1 splinter & know a couple others also using Carbon One & not reporting any problems.


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## Lazarus

As montigre pointed out, there is no need to wrap the shafts if you prep the shaft properly and use the proper fletching cement. I use FF187's (one of the more difficult to make adhere) and they don't fall off, ever, if you do it right.


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## kballer1

I have never worryed about them falling off, it is removing them to refletch with out scraping carbon off that is why I use wraps & that little piece of wrap will not change a thing.


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## Bow Dad

Great Thread. Our archer uses line cutter type arrows 23's for outdoor target so far (her indoor and 3d arrows). She only shoots out to 30m. It sounds like this fine for this distance then? No need for skinny arrows until much longer distances?


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## Sasquech

Sorry I was unclear they stick so well you can't remove damaged fletch with out pulling carbon with it. That was why the suggested wrap for repair purposes and the weight and spine must be compensated for it is an issue


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## rooster61

Gold tip 22's


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## Strodav

Started shooting NFAA field with ACEs at the recommendation of some of the better field shooters at my club. Used 100gr glue in points and smaller fletches with a couple of degrees offset. Had problems with the carbon splitting along the arrow after a season, so started looking for a tougher replacement. No question the high end arrows are CX Nano Pros and Easton Protour X10s, but wanted to see if I could find something much less expensive. Went with Black Eagle X-Impacts and find them to meet specs and they group for me as well if not better than the ACEs. In all fairness, I moved up the FOC on the X-Impacts compared to the ACEs. I think the trick to better long distance groups is to use a little heavier point, say 120gr, which requires a bit heavier spine shaft to produce the best groups at distance. So I added about 25 gr which took off about 8 fps, so I'm shooting about 284 or 285 fps instead of 293 or 294 fps, but am shooting much tighter groups at 90m. Could be my skills have improved a bit as well, but think the higher FOC makes a difference.

I've posted this story before. Was awarded the 2nd place medal in my class last summer at a 60m, 50m, 40m FITA round last summer. I was shooting the ACEs mentioned above, shafts at $300 / dz. The guy who beat me was shooting Carbon Ones at $114 /dz. The guy is just a better archer, also a very well known archer, and shot a good score that day and I shot my average score. It's not the arrow, it's the archer, at least at my skill level.


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## Mahly

I was considering the X-Impacts, but the deep impacts were heavier for the same spine.
Those with 140n tips should do well. I finished making a straightness/spine tester and initial results are quite impressive.


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## chilipowder

Mahly said:


> I was considering the X-Impacts, but the deep impacts were heavier for the same spine.
> Those with 140n tips should do well. I finished making a straightness/spine tester and initial results are quite impressive.


They look good, same weight as a carbon one's. Thanks for the post as I never even looked at the Deep Impacts. They are priced more than carbon one's, but that is a personal decision. Would be great to hear more of your build and after some shooting time.


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## cncpro

There are quite a few guys shooting the new Absolute arrows from OK Archery and really liking them.
At $99.00 per dozen , they are worth checking out.
Personally ... I have had great luck with the Victory VAP V1s !!


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## Mahly

chilipowder said:


> They look good, same weight as a carbon one's. Thanks for the post as I never even looked at the Deep Impacts. They are priced more than carbon one's, but that is a personal decision. Would be great to hear more of your build and after some shooting time.





My new arrows:
30 1/16" carbon to carbon
3 AAE MAX 2.0
140gn tips
487gn
12.7 FOC
roughly .25" od
Will have more detailed numbers on spine consistency, and straightness, but initial measurements have straightness on one arrow was within .0003
guessing around 280fps @#60

Results to follow...maybe this weekend (still have to properly set-up and tune bow to match)
Kinda happy with those numbers. Take that stinking wind!!!


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## caspian

Sasquech said:


> Use wraps on what ever you use as the vanes will pull off carbon if attached properly


the only way you are going to lose carbon is by physically scraping. there is no way the adhesive itself will pull material out of a shaft.

wraps are great if you like them. personally I do not because I don't like the expense and having to reflect an entire arrow to repair one fletch, but other people like them and that's fine.


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## caspian

Sasquech said:


> Use wraps on what ever you use as the vanes will pull off carbon if attached properly


the only way you are going to lose carbon is by physically scraping. there is no way the adhesive itself will pull material out of a shaft.

wraps are great if you like them. personally I do not because I don't like the expense and having to reflect an entire arrow to repair one fletch, but other people like them and that's fine.


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