# What is the Difference between cheap riser and expensive one?



## merwin7 (Aug 15, 2008)

what would the difference be between lets say a KAP Winstar II riser, and something like a Hoyt Helix riser? or another $500+ riser? i just got a great deal on some Hoyt G3 limbs and i need a riser to put them on, im just wondering if it would be noticably worth waiting to afford to but a $500+ riser, or if within reason i can get away with a $200 riser? im relatively new to shooting recurve and i dont have the ability to "test out" anything locally, there is only 1 shop that can even order the hoyt, and they say its a 4-6 month wait to get it. and they dont have the ability to get any other risers there so i have to make the purchase via the internet.

any comments / help is much appreciated.


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## Not Sure (May 25, 2007)

I've never shot either riser but almost bought the Winstar II after some research. I found a deal on a 'better' riser but based on everything I've read the Winstar II is a really good choice for a first riser. I would say that assuming the riser is straight and the limbs fit properly (I assume they'd be fine since they are all ILF compatible) then you get the most benefit from good limbs regardless of what riser they go in. 

There is also the factor of if the limbs and riser are of a proper length. There are general charts somewhere based upon your draw height. I'm of avg. height and draw length so I went with a 25" riser and medium limbs (68" bow).

To me it's more important to get limbs that are of the correct length and poundage before considering anything else. Properly spined arrows and a good sight should be next after deciding on a riser that fits in your budget. 

If you are a beginning archer I hope the limbs are not over 30 pounds or you will be struggling over your form for too long of time. Worse, you might get locked into a poor form and have to take extra time with fixing that later.

Save your money on a Hoyt or similarly priced riser until you can shoot at least a 270 in a 300 round. Better to put 200-300 bucks into a good sight and proper arrows for your draw length (to eventually be determined after days/weeks maybe even months of shooting) and the poundage on your fingers at full draw.


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## Borja1300 (Oct 12, 2007)

merwin7 said:


> i just got a great deal on some Hoyt G3 limbs and i need a riser to put them on, im just wondering if it would be noticably worth waiting to afford to but a $500+ riser, or if within reason i can get away with a $200 riser?


Finally, you'll have to buy a high technology riser, so, buying a cheap riser now, is waist your money.

The correct steps, under my point of view, when you're new in archery, are to buy a good riser (inno, nexus, or so) and a cheap and low poundage limbs. While you shoot, you'll increase your poundage, so you'll have to change your limbs but the riser will be always the same. And afer one or two pair of limbs, you'll buy the final ones.


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## merwin7 (Aug 15, 2008)

Not Sure said:


> There is also the factor of if the limbs and riser are of a proper length. There are general charts somewhere based upon your draw height. I'm of avg. *height and draw length so I went with a 25" riser and medium limbs *(68" bow).
> 
> To me it's more important to get limbs that are of the correct length and poundage before considering anything else. *Properly spined arrows and a good sight should be next after deciding on a riser that fits in your budget.
> *
> ...



*1. *thanks for the input, im 6'6" and i was lucky enough to get 38# long limbs, witch would put me at around 44-48 # on my fingers, i was shooting a 62" hoyt game master before i sold it (today yay ebay) that had 50# limbs and was almost 68# on my fingers, TALK ABOUT A WORKOUT, hence the selling of the bow. so if the 38# limbs are too much of a workout i was gonna buy some real cheapies to build up on, or just hit the gym :wink:


*2.*what is all this talk about properly spined arrows? i have some carbon terminator somethings right now, do i need different arrows? longer / shorter fletching? i guess i dont know much about arrow technology.


and thank you for the info on the risers, it is very helpful.


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## merwin7 (Aug 15, 2008)

Borja1300 said:


> Finally, you'll have to buy a high technology riser, so, buying a cheap riser now, is waist your money.
> 
> The correct steps, under my point of view, when you're new in archery, are to buy a good riser (inno, nexus, or so) and a cheap and low poundage limbs. While you shoot, you'll increase your poundage, so you'll have to change your limbs but the riser will be always the same. And afer one or two pair of limbs, you'll buy the final ones.



i understand that, but i couldent turn down the deal, $275 on a pair of 3 month old Hoyt G3's 38# long limbs, witch is what my end limb weight and length will be to reach 44-48# at my 32" draw. until i saw the deal on the limbs i was just gonna buy a KAP winstar riser and the KAP winstar carbon limbs, but i was still going to buy the 38# longs. ive been pulling on a 65-68# recurve for a few months (i forgot to mention that) and im pretty sure i can handle the 45ish LBS at full draw now, it will seem like a kiddy bow compared to 65#


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## Borja1300 (Oct 12, 2007)

Is not the same to shoot olympic and to shoot 3D or hunting.

Anyway, what I mean is, as long as you find this deal, instead of buying a cheap riser, buy a decent riser.


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

merwin7 said:


> i understand that, but i couldent turn down the deal, $275 on a pair of 3 month old Hoyt G3's 38# long limbs, witch is what my end limb weight and length will be to reach 44-48# at my 32" draw. until i saw the deal on the limbs i was just gonna buy a KAP winstar riser and the KAP winstar carbon limbs, but i was still going to buy the 38# longs. ive been pulling on a 65-68# recurve for a few months (i forgot to mention that) and im pretty sure i can handle the 45ish LBS at full draw now, it will seem like a kiddy bow compared to 65#


I am assuming that you were shooting your GameMaster without a sight, and without really holding the arrow at anchor. (So-called "instinctive" shooting.) Unless you are going to continue to shooting that way, I would not recommend the 38# limbs at this point. The "common" style for shooting Olympic recurve has a much slower and more measured draw than your typical "snap shot." If you want to shoot this style (and you can continue to shoot instinctively with an Olympic recurve riser), then you are going to have to completely relearn your drawing technique. Even though you can handle +50# with the GameMaster, I think you are going end up frustrated (or in pain) starting at +38#. Also, the G3 limbs are very different from the GameMaster's limbs, they are much faster and, perhaps, (excuse the term, please) "unforgiving."

As for your original question, a more expensive riser will be made from different, more expensive materials. The Winstar II is cast aluminum alloy, the Helix is CNC-machined billet aluminum. The INNO (to complete the thought) is made of carbon fiber. In addition, more expensive risers tend to give you greater adjustability. The Helix has bushings on the riser's face (the side towards the archer) for weights, the Winstar II doesn't. (Neither does the INNO, but the INNO has better limb camber adjustments than the Winstar.) Finally, more expensive risers may have slightly more design thought in them, but that's not really an issue as most inexpensive risers were last year's expensive riser.

In truth, most archers will never notice the difference between an expensive or an inexpensive riser. So, it comes down to your budget, your personal preferences and your commitment to the discipline. If you want to buy the Helix and you can afford it. (And you should think seriously about this, because the Helix is really not meant to be shot without stabilizers.) Go for it. If you want to buy full kit and the buying the Helix will prevent you from doing that, then buy a less expensive riser. (Remember, even older risers keep showing up at the Olympics.) 

Also, think about what you want to shoot. If you want to shoot barebow in competition, then you cannot use the Helix. It won't pass the equipment inspection. 

I hope this helps.

PC-


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## inferno nexus (Oct 15, 2007)

merwin7 said:


> what is all this talk about properly spined arrows? i have some carbon terminator somethings right now, do i need different arrows? longer / shorter fletching? i guess i dont know much about arrow technology.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## MM1354 (Apr 13, 2005)

I draw 30.5 inch arrow and shoot two different sets of 38# limbs and I get 48#'s out of them at my draw with the limbs cranked all the way down. I would guess your going to get closer to 51-52#'s out of the limbs on a 25 inch riser if you set them for maximum power or if you back them off you could see, maybe, 49#'s at the lightest setting but I wouldn't bet on it. Read some disscussions of the other long arm shooters, like limbwalker or Dave T, an see what sort of power they are getting out of 32 & 34# limbs. Dave shoots about 34#'s an get about 44#'s out of his limbs, if I recall correctly. 
Yours MM1354


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## merwin7 (Aug 15, 2008)

MM1354 said:


> I draw 30.5 inch arrow and shoot two different sets of 38# limbs and I get 48#'s out of them at my draw with the limbs cranked all the way down. I would guess your going to get closer to 51-52#'s out of the limbs on a 25 inch riser if you set them for maximum power or if you back them off you could see, maybe, 49#'s at the lightest setting but I wouldn't bet on it. Read some disscussions of the other long arm shooters, like limbwalker or Dave T, an see what sort of power they are getting out of 32 & 34# limbs. Dave shoots about 34#'s an get about 44#'s out of his limbs, if I recall correctly.
> Yours MM1354


so should i not follow through with these limbs? or more appropriately, will the poundage disqualify me from events? (ive never done a event yet). also with my 32" draw what poundage limbs should i consider for "practice" limbs? and will i need to spend another $100 on arrows for every set of limbs i have?


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

One other thing to consider with a cheap, cast riser vs. a high end model-with your draw length and desired poundage, there has generally been a high failure rate on cast aluminum and magnesium risers, as compared to machined and forged.


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## merwin7 (Aug 15, 2008)

engtee said:


> One other thing to consider with a cheap, cast riser vs. a high end model-with your draw length and desired poundage, there has generally been a high failure rate on cast aluminum and magnesium risers, as compared to machined and forged.


is there a particular riser you would recommend then in the under $500 range?


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

Another consideration is what type of person are you? Some people must own the best that money can buy, others are completely satisfied with whatever is functional and don't worry about how little it cost, yet others are somewhere between those two. It helps to have confidence in your equipment, and, if you can only do that by owning a more expensive riser than (IMO) that is what you should buy. Otherwise you will forever tell yourself "I wish I had bought the better one". YMMV. - John


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## Les K (Apr 2, 2008)

*Hoyt Nexus?*



merwin7 said:


> is there a particular riser you would recommend then in the under $500 range?


I think the Hoyt nexus is at $399 or around there at Lancaster. The Helix is just a bit over your $500 mark at around $549-550 if you can stretch it just a bit. Both top of the line stuff......

Les.


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## merwin7 (Aug 15, 2008)

Les K said:


> I think the Hoyt nexus is at $399 or around there at Lancaster. The Helix is just a bit over your $500 mark at around $549-550 if you can stretch it just a bit. Both top of the line stuff......
> 
> Les.


i was just browsing around and came across "Hoyt Eclipse Riser" anyone ever herd of this or owned one?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Risers can't give you more points, but they can give you less, for sure. But not so many less... even from the worst existing riser.
The real term to evalute risers is quality.
Quality of a riser is made of seveal elements, and not all of them are related to archery performnce. 
Quality in risers means:
- Precision - in terms of straightness, absence of twisting, tight tolerancies in limbs alignemnt system
- Technology - in terms of mechanical solutions, riser geometry, riser construction and materials and weight distribution and general balance.
- Finishing . In terms of surfaces finishing, color and color stability.
- Accessories - in terms of all those small things that help the riser to be what it is.
- Warranty - in terms of number of years for it. 
- Brand recognition - in terms world image of the brand of the riser.

Based on value analysys techniques, you can weight all above elements and get back to a concrete value sacle for all existing risers. 
But, of course, as weighted evluation has to be done on your personal parameters, only, results ma y come out to be quite different from an archer to another. 

Top recurve bow set up with accessories and case today is in the range of 3800.00 USD without arrows, and lowest reasonable kit is in the range of 500.00 USD.
You have in total more than 3300.00 USD to discuss about... archery equipments quality.


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## Boltsmyth (Nov 16, 2002)

"so should i not follow through with these limbs? or more appropriately, will the poundage disqualify me from events? (ive never done a event yet). also with my 32" draw what poundage limbs should i consider for "practice" limbs? and will i need to spend another $100 on arrows for every set of limbs i have?"

Personally I would buy the limbs at that price but I would also get something light to learn form on. At your drawlength 20lb limbs will give you 28lbs. If you go to http://eastonarchery.com/ and choose the shaft selector you'll be able to put in all kinds of what if scenarios for bowweight and arrow spine choices.


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

Wow, everyone is so serious. I thought for certain someone would say that the difference between a good riser and a cheaper one is about 300 dollars.

Actually, I did just what you are asking about.  I bought a cheaper model and ended up buying a Hoyt Nexus anyway. My experience says, buy a good one and that will be "your" bow. You can always play with limbs: lighter, heavier, longer, shorter, but the riser will be good no matter what type of limbs.


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

merwin7 said:


> i was just browsing around and came across "Hoyt Eclipse Riser" anyone ever herd of this or owned one?


The Eclipse is a cast magnesium alloy riser with similar geometry to the Helix or the Aerotec. Due to the alloy, the riser is thicker, but also lighter, than its aluminum cousins. It does, however, use the ortho grip from the Helix or Nexus. The riser was made in 2006 and then discontinued in 2007 along with the Gold Medalist, another magnesium alloy riser. The reason for the discontinuation was rumored to be due to issues with the casting foundry, but who knows?

As far as I know, the Eclipse was liked by those who purchased it. Or at least, I haven't read any complaints about it. I almost ordered one, but chose the Helix instead (because it was in stock).

PC-

P.S. Not to disagree with Engtee too much, but I think he should have said "higher" rather than "high." While alloy and cast risers do have a history of failing when there are issues with the casting (bubbles, inconsistencies, or other problems), they also have been around for a very long time. (But, then again, aluminum risers also fail, when there are technical or design issues--as was the case with the first Hoyt Avalon.) There are Gold Medalists that are still being shot today. Also, compound risers are still cast from magnesium alloy or aluminum, and they hold against far greater weight than a recurve. I wouldn't discount a riser just because it is cast.


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## MM1354 (Apr 13, 2005)

I would go ahead an buy the limbs as some else suggested, they are good limbs. If you have already been pulling 68#'s moving down to 48-50#'s will seem like it will be easy and in some ways it will feel great. But in the beginning you need to really pay attention to your form before you go for poundage. So get the limbs for later use get a lighter set of limbs work on your form then move up to the heavier poundage's. In Fita recurve, my understanding is if you can pull it you can shoot it. LOL There are high end archers that are shooting around 50-55#'s in Fita. 
I would buy a high end riser to start with, even a good used one, which there have been several on AT to pick from. I have brought several high quality used risers here. 
But I tend to stay with Hoyt, the Avalon Plus, Matrix, others prefer the Italian risers which are also really good. My view is if you buy a top quality riser to start and you like it, it becomes strong place to work from rather than shopping thru the medium quality risers. 
I also prefer the forged risers over the other materials available although the newer Win-Win risers look interesting. 
Yes, your going to have to buy some different arrows for major weight changes, but if you get a software program, like Archers Advantage, that you can plug in the information into you may find that you can shoot the arrows in different combinations of riser & limbs. I currently have 3 bows set up that use the same arrows but they are all within 2-3 pound in weight, but I found out what I needed to shoot by using the software program, it saved me quite a bit of money in shafts rather than trial and error. 
MM1354


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## engtee (Oct 2, 2003)

I would strongly suggest that prior to purchasing any riser, you manage to get to a club where you can see a variety of bows and, hopefully feel them. In addition to the manufacturing methods of casting, forging, machining, or carbon, you also must realize that there are risers that are stiff and that are flexible. Generally, the stiff ones will deliver slightly more speed per pound pulled, but will not be as gentle on the body. Examples are the Hoyt Tec risers and the old Martin Aurora, and to a lesser degree, the Samick Masters. Flexible risers will be easier on the body (and I heartily recommend if you are older), but not quite as fast. Examples are the PSE X-Factor and Hoyt matrix. I have never spent much time shooting a carbon bow, but I do know that they deliver a different feel.
Any high-end riser will be able to outshoot any person on the planet, so it comes down to a matter of personal preference. Remember, as long as you do not have a problem with the flexibility of a particular riser, you merely have to make the grip fit you and your shooting style and you will have a great deal of trouble distinguishing one from another.
I also do not think that the purchase of a new, high-end riser is needed-there are many excellent used ones available. The Olympic silver was won with a bow that I believe was two generations removed and Khatuna Lorig progressed well for the USA team, using a Hoyt that must have been half a dozen generations old. If you spot something either in the classifieds here, or on eBay, most people here would be glad to give you an honest appraisal.
P.S.: Cat-I stand corrected.


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## Les K (Apr 2, 2008)

*Are the Hoyt risers from billet?*

I thought that I read/heard somewhere that the Hoyt risers are CNC machined from a solid piece of billet aluminum and that method of manufacture would be even stronger/better than a forged riser such as the Winstar II (I don't believe that the Winstar II is cast as someone else mentioned on this thread)? I am also under the impression that there aren't very many risers that are made using the cast method? 

Can anyone anyone confirm this information? Any thoughts as to billet vs. forged?

Les.


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