# WA 2015 3D World Championships - Terni - Italy - Sept. 1 to 5



## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

Some strong names in the lists for sure and always fun to see the longbow and instinctive divisions where there are some great archers that don´t get that much attention internationally otherwise. 

I am looking forward to see the battle in the Women Barebow cathegory between Eleonora Strobbe, ITA, and Lina Björklund, SWE. I wonder if anyone else is going to rise to the challenge and disturb those two, especially when Gaute of France stays at home. Then we have Lazzaroni back in the game together with the other italian Fabio Pittaluga up against especially the austrians with Ocenasek and Parschisek in the Instinctive men. Barebow Men is another interesting cathegory (especially for me since I shoot WA Barebow myself) with Erik Jonsson, Timo Leskinen and ofcourse Guiseppe Seimandi and Giannini as the most eye catching participators. This is going to be fun to follow! 

Too bad that there are no US team  I think there have been a american team in most of the previous WA3D world championships.


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

While I'm sure it would be easy for USAA to identify 3 excellent 3-D shooters, it is not their focus......at all. I have yet to see any WA/USAA 3-D competition in the USA, all though it is certainly possible there have been some. It would be nice if USAA consulted with other US based archery governing bodies and at least designate a team, even if they did not fund the effort.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I agree.

However, I simply don't see why WA needs to delve into 3D. 

Why can we not allow WA to govern target archery, IFAA to govern field, and IBO to govern 3D?

It's no wonder so many archers get confused.


----------



## Zombie_Feynman (Jun 27, 2014)

I think that IBO is mainly a US organization without presence in most of the world (unlike WA). In many countries where there are not that many archers it makes sense to have just one archery association (and that is usually a national federation associated with WA). I know that at least in Europe there is usually a national federation associated with WA, and a national association associated with IFAA, but I hadn't even heard of IBO until I came to this forum 

It is a lot less confusing to have just one big association than many small ones for every discipline, but this would probably mean that some disciplines get less atention from the association (this could certainly be the case for 3D and field), so it makes sense that everyone tries to have an association that caters to their discipline.


----------



## Blackfletch (Dec 2, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I agree.
> 
> However, I simply don't see why WA needs to delve into 3D.
> 
> ...


There is a thread startd on the 3-D forum also. I don't think IBO is the organization to govern 3D shooters. The ASA gets 1500 shooters at their 
Pro/Am events. However, The IFAA is also holdfing a 3D world championship. I understand there is 2500 archers shooting.


----------



## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> I agree.
> 
> However, I simply don't see why WA needs to delve into 3D.
> 
> ...


Someone told me USAA put IBO in charge of designating the 3D team for the WA championships. Is this true, and they didn't do it?? This is really a shame. I'd be interested in competing for a slot next time but I am totally out of the loop on IBO stuff and don't really want to add on paying their dues and traveling to their tournaments -- plus their equipment rules for barebow seem a lot different than WA rules. (And IFAA is different, too. WA has the best BB rules.) USAA is the WA affiliate in the U.S. and, IMO, should govern the 3D teams as well as field, target and indoors. As popular as 3D is in this country, it could be a new, big revenue source for them, right? I believe WA only has two championships with a BB division, and we're totally missing out on one of them. Waaaah.


----------



## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

At one time IBO somewhat sponsored a team, but I think it was very brief. I hope one day they again sponsor a team. I know if we did get a WA world shoot on this side once in a blue moon, it would help in that cause a lot to get the interest way up.


----------



## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

If no one in the country is up for putting on a WA 3D shoot (Texas State Archery Association?), maybe the unmarked day of USAA Field Nationals (if it was held in May every year) could serve as a qualifying event for the World 3D. Athletes could be on their own with no coaches or logistical help at worlds -- but at least they would have the opportunity to compete. And at least they would be shooting the same equipment as at worlds. Plus it might improve the off-year attendance at US Field Nationals (still time to register for that, folks! It's Sept. 25-27 in Yankton; I know of eight BB shooters who are going).


----------



## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

As always the federation discussion starts when USA should go somewhere. We have it so much easier here. Archery is WA. There are some small, but almost invisible IFAA clubs with limited number of archers, but it´s almost non present. IBO? Isn´t that mainly a bowhunting organization? Never heard anything from them in Europe apart from some arrow speed standard measurement for compounds. If I check their website, it says that the IBO World Championships will be held 6th-9th of August 2015 in "Holiday Valley Resort in beautiful Ellicottville, NY". NY? Where is that? I have heard of NG as in New Guinea, but NY? If I check the results, you can see what city the archers are from, but no country is stated there either. It turns out to be New York and all USA ofcourse and I can´t find any international participation with a quick look. Three weeks after the competition, there is still no sign of it on the web page that just states it as an upcoming event. A lot of archers and a fun competition? Probably. An international serious elite event worthy of the name World Championships? Not even close. 

IFAA is mainly a social event organizer mainly in my eyes, since they have all open "championships" without need of qualification and a set of equipment and class rules that really needs to be cleaned up. Sure the Pro Series in Field is interesting, but still that is more a result of a motivated group of individuals than IFAA itself. A world championship in any sport should include a qualification process that leads to a national team from each country. Not a "team" that consists of a the one that could affort a ticket or got the best sponsor deal to cover the travel costs. 

WA is by far the best to promote the elite part of our sport and for me the only true world championship is WA. No matter if its target, field or 3D archery.

I do however understand that USA don´t show up, since WA 3D is not present in your country. USAA sent a team a few times atleast before as far as I know.


----------



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Blackfletch said:


> There is a thread startd on the 3-D forum also. I don't think IBO is the organization to govern 3D shooters. The ASA gets 1500 shooters at their
> Pro/Am events. However, The IFAA is also holdfing a 3D world championship. I understand there is 2500 archers shooting.


This x2. ASA is a much better run organization from everything I have read. Apparently there is a lot of dissatisfaction among the membership in the IBO on several issues. I hope they get all this resolved and can move forward rather than continuing to lose members.
The main objective however is to get a team picked for the USA regardless of which organization does the selection. It would be nice for someone to pick-up the expenses involved for this also. Read recently that Canada is sending a 19 person team but the archers have to spent their own money to participate. This is just wrong. If a country wants to be represented they should pay for the expenses. If not the shooters should just represent themselves.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

MartinOttosson said:


> As always the federation discussion starts when USA should go somewhere. We have it so much easier here. Archery is WA. There are some small, but almost invisible IFAA clubs with limited number of archers, but it´s almost non present. IBO? Isn´t that mainly a bowhunting organization? Never heard anything from them in Europe apart from some arrow speed standard measurement for compounds. If I check their website, it says that the IBO World Championships will be held 6th-9th of August 2015 in "Holiday Valley Resort in beautiful Ellicottville, NY". NY? Where is that? I have heard of NG as in New Guinea, but NY? If I check the results, you can see what city the archers are from, but no country is stated there either. It turns out to be New York and all USA ofcourse and I can´t find any international participation with a quick look. Three weeks after the competition, there is still no sign of it on the web page that just states it as an upcoming event. A lot of archers and a fun competition? Probably. An international serious elite event worthy of the name World Championships? Not even close.
> 
> IFAA is mainly a social event organizer mainly in my eyes, since they have all open "championships" without need of qualification and a set of equipment and class rules that really needs to be cleaned up. Sure the Pro Series in Field is interesting, but still that is more a result of a motivated group of individuals than IFAA itself. A world championship in any sport should include a qualification process that leads to a national team from each country. Not a "team" that consists of a the one that could affort a ticket or got the best sponsor deal to cover the travel costs.
> 
> ...


Good post Martin


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Shooting IFAA Bowhunters in Hungary nearly 1400 competitors. Then straight to Italy for WA3D both great tourneys that have something to offer all tastes


----------



## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

> IFAA is mainly a social event organizer mainly in my eyes, since they have all open "championships"


That is true. However the elite level of those at the top isn't in doubt.

The only way to find out is to try it Martin.


----------



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

I wonder if it would make sense to have a combined USA Archery National Field and National 3D Championship tournament. Would it be practical to do both back to back in the same area? Seems like having a national championship in field and 3D would naturally grow into USA Archery world championship teams for each.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I think iBO 3D is close enough to WA3D that it could be worked out, not sure iBO and IFAA 3D are close enough alike though.


----------



## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

You will not see many top U.S. 3D shooters in tournaments like the WA 3D Championship unless the bow manufacturers put up the same contingency money as they do for the ASA tournaments. The top pro's can make as much as $15000 between winnings and contingency money for an ASA win.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Oh I see, American shooters will only shoot for money then, is that what you're saying? That may be true of the pro classes but not the rest of us.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Ocenasek sadly died a week after Euro WA3D in a car accident. He will be missed.


----------



## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

steve morley said:


> Ocenasek sadly died a week after Euro WA3D in a car accident. He will be missed.


Now that was some truly bad news. I had no idea, but I see now that he's not in the list. I just assumed that he would be one of the top names in the instinctive division as always. A loss of a great archer. I am happy that I met him before it was to late.


----------



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Bigjono said:


> Oh I see, American shooters will only shoot for money then, is that what you're saying? That may be true of the pro classes but not the rest of us.


Jon I think he was referring to the Pro shooters when he mentioned the top shooters. Guys like Levi Morgan and Jesse Broadwater are Pro's in the truest sense of the world. That is what they do to feed their family 's. In a world shoot like the WA3D I am not sure if it is all amateur or not. Also Don 't know if it is only recurves or longbows or if compounds are used.

If it is all amateurs then the Pro's certainly won't shoot. Same if it is recurves /longbows. In these case then "the rest of us" should be sponsored by the country they represent as I mentioned earlier. If Pro's and compounds are allowed then the "rest of us" need not worry cause none of us is ever going to make that team. Those guys are just that much better.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Dave Cousins did a self funded trip to this championship and (if I recall correctly) won it by a decent margin. And Dave isn't a full blown 3D guy like Levi and Dan and Chance.


----------



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I agree.
> 
> However, I simply don't see why WA needs to delve into 3D.
> 
> ...


While it is ok to talk of restructuring, the current structure is, USAA is the WA recognized NGB and regardless of who picks the team, USAA would probably need to submit the names to WA. I'm not a WA, or USAA rules wonk, but it makes sense to this addled brain. We should at least designate a team.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Like it or not, the USA are one of the powerhouse countries in archery so any World championship without a US team is lacking something, in the same way that the iBO Worlds lacks stature because the big European shooters don't come. Don't get me wrong, they are all great shoots and produce worthy champions but those champions should be competing against each other not in different events. There must be a way of getting a truly representative World Championships in field and 3D surely.


----------



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Bigjono said:


> Like it or not, the USA are one of the powerhouse countries in archery so any World championship without a US team is lacking something, in the same way that the iBO Worlds lacks stature because the big European shooters don't come. Don't get me wrong, they are all great shoots and produce worthy champions but those champions should be competing against each other not in different events. There must be a way of getting a truly representative World Championships in field and 3D surely.


Agree completely Jon. Too many organizations that only care about their little niche of the pie. To many people with their own agenda's and nobody wants to compromise to help better the overall archery product. It would be terrific to see a true world shoot in all the different disciplines but it's easier said than done I'm afraid.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

There was a big push on here lead by the John's Magera and Demmer to at least unify barebow rules here to make things easier but even that didn't go down well with many.


----------



## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Some one correct me if I am wrong, but this is a tournament under the IFAA and not WA, It was a few years back in Yankton. So US Archery won't have anything to do with it.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

archer_nm said:


> Some one correct me if I am wrong, but this is a tournament under the IFAA and not WA, It was a few years back in Yankton. So US Archery won't have anything to do with it.


Sorry Bob, this is a World Archery event. And it's high up enough that USA Archery has to enter in all the participating athletes in WAREOS, which is the World Archery athlete entry system. In other words, Audrey Tyrell at USA Archery has to physically enter in the participating athletes from the United States.

Which also means that team uniform rules are in effect and self funded archers (if they aren't part of current or prior USAT or JDT teams) has to also purchase uniforms as well. Other rules that go into effect are the full no-camo rules and other fun stuff that go along with a World Championship level tournament.

http://www.3darcherywc2015.it/assets/invitation-3dawc_v12.pdf

-Steve


----------



## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

No problem I stand corrected 
Thanks Steve


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

USA don't attend through their own choice and they're not excluded in any way by WA. It was great to see Dave at last world champs, it would be better to see a whole team. Canada makes the effort, so come on USA.

Technically Dave broke WA3D rules by just entering himself (WA let it happen). Everyone else had earned their spot by completing qualification tourney's, I think WA let it happen in hope that USA might show a bit more interest next time.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

There is no WA 3D here so how is anyone supposed to qualify?


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Bigjono said:


> There is no WA 3D here so how is anyone supposed to qualify?


From a Canadian standpoint - I don't know.

From a USA Archery standpoint, the Ted Stevens act would allow anyone who was willing to pay their way (and if they were in good standing with USA Archery in terms of membership) to the WA3D tournament. This is because we don't have a championship for it. 

So, if I were to shoot the WA3D tournament, I would first email Guy Krueger and Audrey Tyrell to notify them that as part of the Ted Stevens' act, I would be wanting to declare a slot for the WA3D tournament. I would then wait for approval (not likely they would deny it unless Dave, Levi, and Dan or similar 3D pros all wanted to do it, for examples sake), then....

- You pay the fees
- Set up airline trips
- Make sure your passport is set
- Get a visa for the trip
- pay for uniforms (and the Uniforms won't likely be current team uniforms - they are likely to be the LAST generation uniforms. Dave wore his 2012 era uniform to the last WA3D tournament)
- arrange for transportation if you aren't willing to stay in the host hotel
- arrange for hotel if you aren't willing to stay in the host hotel
- arrange for meals if you aren't willing to eat the bag lunch and meals that the host committee is making you pay for
- pack up, go and shoot...

In the background...

- USA Archery has to enter you in as an athlete into the World Archery system. Every World Ranking Event and World Championship level event has to have athletes enter into the World Archery system.
- USA Archery will get approval from Guy and Coach Lee to have you shoot the event. They reserve the right to deny you to go. You don't do anything else unless you get approval to go.

If there are multiple people going, there is a level of coordination where everyone has to generally arrive near each other, have uniforms coordinated, and lots of other stuff. In a lot of trips, there is generally a team captain that would be part of the contingent going.

Lots of stuff...and one has to decide if it's worth it or not. And, I'm just glossing over the details from a 30,000 foot view too.

-Steve


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> From a Canadian standpoint - I don't know.
> 
> From a USA Archery standpoint, the Ted Stevens act would allow anyone who was willing to pay their way (and if they were in good standing with USA Archery in terms of membership) to the WA3D tournament. This is because we don't have a championship for it.
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks. I'm a Brit living in Canada so even more of a minefield I'm guessing. At least with the WBHC you don't need to qualify, just pay and say you represent your country I think.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Bigjono said:


> There is no WA 3D here so how is anyone supposed to qualify?


UK don't run 3D events and use Field rankings to decide. All you need is a qualification process, it can be anything from IBO rankings to Field rankings, top 3 automatically qualify. We run 6 competitions to WA3D rules and top 3 shooters qualify.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Canada does it right. All outdoor championships are completed over two weeks within driving distance of the host city. So if you want to do the 3D, field and target champs you can do so with minimal travel costs. The 3D team for worlds is actually pretty competitive to qualify for, field is basically anyone who wants to go.

Grant


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Theres a few hours drive between the field venue and the 3D venue next year Grant.


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

In the US let the NFAA select the Field/3D teams. Then lets get the NFAA to adopt WA Barebow rules. Either by splitting the current barebow class into a barebow-compound and Barebow-recurve, or change the Traditional rules.

Yankton wants to host all these high level tournaments. They are hosting the FITA Field national championships this year, so why not let them host the 3D National champtionships.

Yankton creates national championships shoots that none of the states shoot - i.e. the 600 round in the Outdoor Target championships.

The 3D world team is going to be a self funded team just like the FITA Field team, so that isnt going to cost them money to send a team. All they have to do in Yankton is host a shoot, and select a team from the results.

Since the USAA really doesn't care about field shoots, and the NFAA is only doing a target shoot because the "other" organization is doing it, then why not just set it up that USAA handles Target shoots for the US, and the NFAA handles the Field side of things.

But the NFAA has got to get off their butts and adopt WA Barebow rules.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Interspersed...

-Steve



Mr. Roboto said:


> In the US let the NFAA select the Field/3D teams. Then lets get the NFAA to adopt WA Barebow rules. Either by splitting the current barebow class into a barebow-compound and Barebow-recurve, or change the Traditional rules.


You'd have to get the NFAA to pass that through the state reps. Good luck on that, sarcasm intended.



> Yankton wants to host all these high level tournaments. They are hosting the FITA Field national championships this year, so why not let them host the 3D National champtionships.


They are hosting the FITA Field National Championships because they won the bid. Texas and Washington State have won prior bids, so that's not very unusual for Easton Yankton to win hosting bids.



> Yankton creates national championships shoots that none of the states shoot - i.e. the 600 round in the Outdoor Target championships.


I wasn't aware that the 600 round is a World Archery recognized round. 



> The 3D world team is going to be a self funded team just like the FITA Field team, so that isnt going to cost them money to send a team. All they have to do in Yankton is host a shoot, and select a team from the results.


I beg to differ. It does cost USA Archery money. There is time/labor/work involved from USA Archery staffers to coordinate a WA3D team. When Dave did it, the amount of work needed was minimal because Dave is/was a USAT member already. He's already in the database, he's already got the uniforms, all he had to do is pay the fees and airfare and go. 

If we have athletes that aren't current/prior USAT/JDT or have not shot ANY international events (including the Arizona Cup, I might add) - then there is a bit of work involved to get them into the database and go from there.



> Since the USAA really doesn't care about field shoots, and the NFAA is only doing a target shoot because the "other" organization is doing it, then why not just set it up that USAA handles Target shoots for the US, and the NFAA handles the Field side of things.
> 
> But the NFAA has got to get off their butts and adopt WA Barebow rules.


Again - state reps from the NFAA have to ratify that. There likely needs to be a major change in who the state reps are before that could get passed. Bob would have a better idea on that.

And - USA Archery does care about field shoots. It's just that the funding only goes so far and is allocated (some by USA Archery's handlers, mind you) to specific programs. 

Field, Compound Junior Dream Team, and parts of Recurve Junior Dream Team are primarily self funded, with some grants and sponsorships to defray some costs. 3D would be another self funded group. 

Which is a pity - if we could get a group of people for a WA3D team that included our top 3D shooters like Levi, Dan, Chance, Cara, and others - the US would absolutely kill the competition. 

In saying this next two comments, I will likely rankle some people with sensitivity issues...

1) There isn't enough sponsorship money for people to go shoot WA3D. The corollary to that is there isn't a desire for some to spend the money to represent their country AND claim a true world championship.

2) It is a way to extend your shooting season in 3D. Some people just don't see it that way.


----------



## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Beastmaster said:


> Interspersed...
> 
> -Steve
> 
> ...


Truth.

U.S. archery needs a "Sugar Daddy" corporation who is willing to put up the money for travel and hotels.

As for qualifying, just go by the "Shooter of the Year" points in the ASA.

I have shot in 3D tournaments put on by the NFAA, ASA, and IBO. The NFAA tournaments are well run but poorly attended. They dropped the ball years ago when they initially ignored 3D. The IBO tournaments are badly run with rampant cheating. The ASA tournaments are well run with excellent record keeping. The manufacturers love the ASA, blessing it with high contingency money even in the amateur classes. The ASA is serious about well run 3D tournaments.

Ir should be no problem for USA Archery to pick the U.S. team in cooperation with the ASA.

However, it is still going to come back to the money.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

ccwilder3 said:


> Truth.
> 
> U.S. archery needs a "Sugar Daddy" corporation who is willing to put up the money for travel and hotels.
> 
> ...


That's a pretty good idea using ASA SOY points for determining the team.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

My understanding is that ASA is about as far from any 3D format anywhere else in the world as it's possible to get isn't it?
I'm not sure why every conversation comes back to money. I'm sure the guys from Sweden, Italy, Germany, Australia, UK etc don't talk this way. I understand from the viewpoint of a couple of pro spots maybe but the rest of the classes shoot for other priorities like personal and national pride.


----------



## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

ccwilder3 said:


> Truth.
> 
> U.S. archery needs a "Sugar Daddy" corporation who is willing to put up the money for travel and hotels.
> 
> ...


I pretty much have to laugh at this whole post.


----------



## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

How do you even pick a team with any of these rules with the said organizations. Only USA archery has the same equipment rules. ASA, no string walking and you have a stab. IBO, you have a stab and a clicker in RU. You have no weights allowed or string walking in TRD. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Pull guys from these shoots that don't even shoot the same style as WA. This is why there is kinda of a push to get at least one class that lines up with each other.


----------



## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

We do need to get someone to sponsor us (non pro) in particular. You are looking to spend at least 2 grand and most likely 3 just to go and shoot for a couple of days. The billing for the Europeans is a lot more forgiving when they don't have to fly overseas. Plus from what I have heard, quite a few of them get some sort of sponsorship. That's great for them. If you don't see that on our end, you will continue to not see a 3d team from the US.


----------



## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Demmer said:


> How do you even pick a team with any of these rules with the said organizations. Only USA archery has the same equipment rules. ASA, no string walking and you have a stab. IBO, you have a stab and a clicker in RU. You have no weights allowed or string walking in TRD. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Pull guys from these shoots that don't even shoot the same style as WA. This is why there is kinda of a push to get at least one class that lines up with each other.


You are absolutely correct. I was only thinking of the compound classes.

The ASA is very flexible concerning rule changes A request from USA Archery may well meet with success.

As someone who occasionally hunts with a recurve, I never understood the "no string walking" rule. 

If the ASA aligned there traditional class to WA barebow rules, would you shoot in any of the ASA's?


----------



## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

I would shoot some ASA shoots for sure. The one in Kentucky and the classic for sure. I know there are quite a few that would shoot more events if we had that unification going. I don't know if it would happen or not cause there are those that protect thier own interests and not the greater good.


----------



## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

The first of the week, I'll send an email to the ASA inquiring about this. They are currently in the process of some major rule changes if the scuttlebutt is accurate.


----------



## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Beastmaster said:


> Dave Cousins did a self funded trip to this championship and (if I recall correctly) won it by a decent margin. And Dave isn't a full blown 3D guy like Levi and Dan and Chance.


After his little hiccup a few years ago Dave has to self fund all his shooting


----------



## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Bigjono the difference in IBO World and the WA World 3D is that foreign shooters can just come and shoot the IBO World. US shooters without the blessing of USAA can't go to WA World events.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

BubbaDean1 said:


> After his little hiccup a few years ago Dave has to self fund all his shooting


Actually, if it's not recurve, you get NO funding from USA Archery.

So, any Compound USAT, Compound Junior Dream Team, Compound Field, or Compound 3D is basically all self funded.

If you have sponsors, it helps. But that's it...


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

BubbaDean1 said:


> Bigjono the difference in IBO World and the WA World 3D is that foreign shooters can just come and shoot the IBO World. US shooters without the blessing of USAA can't go to WA World events.


Uh...I hate to be a downer here, but using 2014/2015 Indoor Worlds as an example, guys like Brad Rega and Joe Wilkin weren't USAT shooters. Neither was Bernadette Diab. They were able to shoot the event and not necessarily have the blessing of the NGB.

The Arizona Cup is a World Ranking Event first and foremost. It just happens to be a USAT event as well. Anyone can shoot the Arizona Cup.

For WA Outdoor World Cup events, there is a selection procedure, and that selection procedure tends to involve the rolling ranking. Shoot the USAT Events, you get yourself in the rolling ranking and can be selected.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> Actually, if it's not recurve, you get NO funding from USA Archery.
> 
> So, any Compound USAT, Compound Junior Dream Team, Compound Field, or Compound 3D is basically all self funded.
> 
> If you have sponsors, it helps. But that's it...


I am going to make a correction to myself. I forgot that even recurve has some World Cup events that aren't funded. Stage 4 World Cup in Columbia won't be funded by USA Archery for recurve. 

And I'm going to likely tick someone off with more sensitive stomachs here - but being very blunt, until IBO and ASA start bringing in more international shooters from outside North and South America, the rest of the world doesn't really consider those organizations with a true "World Championship". If I use 3D as the specific examples, I truly feel that Dave Cousins (2013), Tommy Gomez (2005) and Robert Eyler (2003) are true World Championship holders.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Beastmaster said:


> I am going to make a correction to myself. I forgot that even recurve has some World Cup events that aren't funded. Stage 4 World Cup in Columbia won't be funded by USA Archery for recurve.
> 
> And I'm going to likely tick someone off with more sensitive stomachs here - but being very blunt, until IBO and ASA start bringing in more international shooters from outside North and South America, the rest of the world doesn't really consider those organizations with a true "World Championship". If I use 3D as the specific examples, I truly feel that Dave Cousins (2013), Tommy Gomez (2005) and Robert Eyler (2003) are true World Championship holders.


I agree, but they the same token, the other World Championships can't be classed as true world championship without the USA archers then, it's a catch 22.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

IBO and ASA don't promote outside of America, when I contacted IBO about shooting world champs they never replied. WA3D at least open to all member countries.

You could make the same argument about Korean's not shooting Field and 3D. It would be great to have the best of Europe v Americans, a lot of people would want to see that battle.

In Rome now and will take the train to Terni in the afternoon.


----------



## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

Just to remember that WA 3D was born severa years ago in cooperation with IBO. At birth, name was 3DI and IBO was sending teams to the 3DI world championships ...


----------



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

steve morley said:


> IBO and ASA don't promote outside of America, when I contacted IBO about shooting world champs they never replied. WA3D at least open to all member countries.
> 
> You could make the same argument about Korean's not shooting Field and 3D. It would be great to have the best of Europe v Americans, a lot of people would want to
> 
> In Rome now and will take the train to Terni in the afternoon.


Steve, you don't need to contact IBO to shoot TRAD Worlds. All you need is a plane ticket, rental car, and hotel reservations. If you show up they will let you shoot. No qualifying process, no sanctioning from some politician wannabe, just bring your bow and some arrows, you will be welcome.


----------



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Bigjono said:


> My understanding is that ASA is about as far from any 3D format anywhere else in the world as it's possible to get isn't it?
> I'm not sure why every conversation comes back to money. I'm sure the guys from Sweden, Italy, Germany, Australia, UK etc don't talk this way. I understand from the viewpoint of a couple of pro spots maybe but the rest of the classes shoot for other priorities like personal and national pride.


Jon the reason it comes down to money in this conversation is because we are talking about ASA and IBO and Professional compound 3-D shooters. Nobody else , just those guys. They shoot for a living and they are the best compound 3-D shooters on the planet. It doesn't matter what format any other organization shoots because if Levi and those guys show up the game is over.
In a team event they have 3-D shooters from each discipline, compound, barebow, trad recurve, longbow etc. if the US ever sends a team and doesn't include one of the top Pro shooters from ASA or IBO in the compound spot then it will be a joke. 
As for barebow all we have to do is re-read Limbwalker and Demmers barebow thread to see what will happen there, more bickering between organizations. How we would pick the best longbow and trad recurve shooter would be a mess also.
As to why the guys from the European countries aren't talking about money is because they don't shoot for it every week to put dinner on the table.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I agree OS, the pro guys are a different story, I'm looking at more from a "rest of us" perspective. Does WA3D have a pro class?


----------



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Bigjono said:


> I agree OS, the pro guys are a different story, I'm looking at more from a "rest of us" perspective. Does WA3D have a pro class?


Don't know if WA, IFAA, or any of those groups have a Pro class. If a true World Championship included only amateurs then all bets on money would be off. It would be even more imperative for the country's to help fund the archers. If Pro's were included their sponsors would kick in money I am sure. Unfortunately I don't think any of the "rest of us" get sponsor dollars. ....damn it!


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm sure if there was a valid qualifier to pick the team, you would always have people willing to self fund it. I don't think they should have to but they would. If there are no pro classes then those guys are not part of this discussion really are they.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

There are no pro classes, everyone just shoots by age, equipment and gender.

Grant


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

So it does make it simple then. Hold a qualifier, qualify, get funded or pay your own way. It really is not rocket science but without a qualifying event there can be no team so which federation is going to step up, IBO??


----------



## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

It is still an utter shame that no US team was put together.


----------



## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Old Sarge said:


> Steve, you don't need to contact IBO to shoot TRAD Worlds. All you need is a plane ticket, rental car, and hotel reservations. If you show up they will let you shoot. No qualifying process, no sanctioning from some politician wannabe, just bring your bow and some arrows, you will be welcome.


This was before Trad worlds and qualification was needed, the emails I sent were asking if I was eligible to compete, no way would I buy a plane ticket without knowing for sure they would allow me to shoot. Trad worlds is easier now and plan to make it one year.

It just comes down to time/money, shooting my third world champs this year and the pot is looking a little empty at the moment.


----------

