# Ontario Association of Archers - rule changes



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Now that the "Rumour has it" thread is winding down, how about a discussion on working out some way of preventing this sort of issue in the future?

The OAA automatically incorporates rule changes as the FCA introduces them. This is what the general OAA membership has indicated they want, so it's the way things are handled. In special circumstances (like additional equipment divisions, or different rounds), the OAA makes exceptions. 

However, in many cases, these rules changes come without adequate warning. They are announced, and then there is an outcry of complaint.

As far as I understand, in these cases the Board can, with adequate preparation time, change rules temporarily. They are then subject to ratification by the membership at the next AGM and either made permanent or dropped.

Rule change proposals can also come from the membership at the AGM, with advance notice, and be discussed and voted on at that time.



So, what can we do to make sure nobody is caught off guard again with a new rule that comes "down from the top", and we have a chance to consider more options before implementing the rule?

Time for everyone to be constructive!


----------



## Xs24-7 (Aug 1, 2002)

I would suggest the following:
#1-Set a policy whereby rules will not be changed after "X" Date.(There is no date that will please all, but January 1 at the latest would seam reasonable)
#2-Instruct your Provincial 3-D representative to inform the FCA 3-D committee of its members displeasure at late rule changes, and the need to have them done earlier. The 3-D committee meets at the 3-D Nationals each year in August.


----------



## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

I think the OAA should put out a general poll (via mail, email etc.) to the membership on the direction it is headed today and what changes folks would like to see happen.

This would be a great way to start, if folks cannot attend the AGM, then this could be an option for them to voice their concerns


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

This is the actual by-law around rule changes. I am quite happy Stash has started this thread.

*15. AMENDMENTS TO BY-LAWS, REGULATIONS AND SHOOTING RULES*
*B.* The Regulations and Shooting Rules shall only be amended or repealed by a resolution passed by a majority of the voting members at a general meeting provided:

If to be presented at the Annual General Meeting, a notice of motion showing the text of the resolution has been received by a member of the Executive Committee or Zone Director prior to the Saturday of the week prior to the AGM; or,
If to be presented at a special general meeting, the notice of motion must be included in the proposition presented to the members.
If the amendment or appeal is to adopt a rule that the National (FCA) sport governing body has accepted, then it may be adopted without resolution passed by a majority of the voting members at a general meeting providing that it receives a majority approval by the board of directors of the OAA.


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

pintojk said:


> I think the OAA should put out a general poll (via mail, email etc.) to the membership on the direction it is headed today and what changes folks would like to see happen.
> 
> This would be a great way to start, if folks cannot attend the AGM, then this could be an option for them to voice their concerns


I fully agree! :thumb:



CaptainT said:


> This is the actual by-law around rule changes. I am quite happy Stash has started this thread.
> 
> *15. AMENDMENTS TO BY-LAWS, REGULATIONS AND SHOOTING RULES*
> *B.* The Regulations and Shooting Rules shall only be amended or repealed by a resolution passed by a majority of the voting members at a general meeting provided:
> ...


If I'm reading number three correctly it states that this 3D rule change is not automatic. It was voted in by the B of D. This to me does not seem right. The membership should have the right to vote on any and all changes made to the OAA rules and regulations at anytime through the year, seeing how it's our paid memberships that make up the OAA.

I'm not knocking the work that the OAA B of D does, I'm just saying that as with any company or organization the B of D's do not always do or take into account what's right for the people or the company/organization. Take a look at the financial situations around the globe, especially some of the largest companies (GM and Chrysler as an example) in the world and the banking system to the south of our border and you'll see what I mean.


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Captain T:

You should probably also remind people of section C:

C. In the event of exceptional circumstances, which shall be determined by the judgment of the members of the Executive Committee, the Board of Directors may enact, amend, or repeal any By-laws, regulation or shooting rule, subject to the following provisions: 
1. The resolution must be passed by a three quarter (3/4) majority vote of the Board of Directors and no less than two thirds (2/3) of the then members of the Board of Directors must have voted on the resolution; and 
2. The resolution of the Board of Directors must be confirmed by a resolution passed at an Annual General Meeting at which meeting the members may confirm, amend or reject the resolution; and 
3. The resolution shall only be effective until the next Annual General Meeting of the members and not until it has been published in the next newsletter.


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Moparmatty said:


> The membership should have the right to vote on any and all changes made to the OAA rules and regulations at anytime through the year, seeing how it's our paid memberships that make up the OAA.


You get this right when you vote in the executive and the clubs vote in the Zone Director. Those then voted individuals are supposed to then vote in your best interest. It's the same way the Government works (not that that is a good comparison).

There's enough trouble getting people to come out and vote once a year at the AGM. Could you imagine if everyone needed to vote on everything the OAA did?


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Attempt # 1

The OAA rules will be reviewed bi-annually for alignment with the FCA. 

The Outdoor Review will be done in January. The changes discovered by that review will be presented to the membership by way of posting on the OAA website by February 1st. The membership will then have one month to contact their Zone Director to voice any constructive concerns and offer input. The proposed changes will then be voted on by the Board of Directors and presented to the membership by March 14th.

The Indoor Review will be done in September. The changes discovered by that review will be presented to the membership by way of posting on the OAA website by October 1st. The membership will then have one month to contact their Zone director to voice any constructive concerns and offer input. The proposed changes will then be voted on by the Board of Directors and presented to the membership by November 14th.

All other changes will be carried out in accordance to the by-laws by way of the Annual General Meeting.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*?????*

Line b only by voting members ???what are considered voting members at the agm or meeting is this only people who are directors or hold a position if so it should maybe made clearer by adding voting executive members or am I out of place here.... Thanks stash for being open minded... I think you guys had a poll on line for the crossbow issue... I think if ENOUGH time is given in advance to post changes then the masses should be able to vote then the results given and then voted on by executive or item deleted from venue... I was involved with politics for years and it seems that people in position have a tendency to go with my way or no way... Its ok guys to delete or rethink things out or defer an item till all the info is in... then it is the general consensus that have made the rule... Again rule changes should come out maybe once or twice a year and give everybody a chance to vote on it ... A web master can set up a poll section on the site for sure and it is not hard to send a e-mail to everybody.. If not then computers and e-mails have let us down... thanks again to the executive ...


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Not that going to the AGM is a bad thing, but why do we have to show up at the AGM to vote on issues/changes?

Can't some form of proxy voting system via "snail mail" or email be implimented as both Pinto and I have already pointed out? If members choose not to vote in this manner then they absolutely no ground to stand on in their complaints. Those votes that *are* received would then be put into the the mix of "yays" or "nays" along with the votes of the B of D's at that time.

Just for the record, it's very rare that I shoot an 3D. I would lke to point out that I would be voicing the same concerns/opinions if the same thing were happening to the indoor/outdoor target rules and regs.


----------



## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Line b only by voting members ???what are considered voting members at the agm or meeting is this only people who are directors or hold a position if so it should maybe made clearer by adding voting executive members or am I out of place here.... Thanks stash for being open minded... I think you guys had a poll on line for the crossbow issue... I think if ENOUGH time is given in advance to post changes then the masses should be able to vote then the results given and then voted on by executive or item deleted from venue... I was involved with politics for years and it seems that people in position have a tendency to go with my way or no way... Its ok guys to delete or rethink things out or defer an item till all the info is in... then it is the general consensus that have made the rule... Again rule changes should come out maybe once or twice a year and give everybody a chance to vote on it ... A web master can set up a poll section on the site for sure and it is not hard to send a e-mail to everybody.. If not then computers and e-mails have let us down... thanks again to the executive ...


Great thinking on having a poll on the OAA website. I totally overlooked that one in my previous posts. This is a great idea! Either way though an email or "snail mail" would have to dispatched notifying the membership that something was up for voting on.


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Line b only by voting members ???what are considered voting members at the agm or meeting


If this is what you are referring to: "...majority of the voting members" - this refers to a majority of votes actually cast.

If there are 100 members present, 51 is a "majority". But in some cases not everyone votes, so if of the 100 there are only 90 votes cast, a "majority of the voting members" would be 46 although it would not be an overall majority.

You have to specify that in the rules, as there are some situations where an overall majority is required, that is to say, abstentions are counted as "against".

Every current member in good standing over 16 years of age has a vote at the AGM.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*thanks stash*

No the question was in regards to voting members So it is the people who show up at the agm not just the directors... is there a chance to be heard at these meetings before each vote or is it only the paper work trail of doing things... If paper work trail then a agenda would and should be sent to each member well in advance so they can list themselves as a speaker to each item if need be... Am I correct in thinking this ...


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

You absolutely have the right to be heard and to discuss things, and to have an equal vote at the AGM.

The only stipulation is that motions regarding rule changes have to be presented in advance of the meeting (15 - B - 1), so people have time to research the matter and come up with sound arguments for or against, rather than spontaneously voting on something based on the heat of the moment.

The agenda and all motions are published in advance of the meeting.


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> No the question was in regards to voting members So it is the people who show up at the agm not just the directors... is there a chance to be heard at these meetings before each vote or is it only the paper work trail of doing things... If paper work trail then a agenda would and should be sent to each member well in advance so they can list themselves as a speaker to each item if need be... Am I correct in thinking this ...


There is a mailer sent out to the members that lists any items that will happen at the AGM. Any items that are up for vote have a discussion period where there are often minor changes made.


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> Not that going to the AGM is a bad thing, but why do we have to show up at the AGM to vote on issues/changes?
> 
> Can't some form of proxy voting system via "snail mail" or email be implimented as both Pinto and I have already pointed out?


I had a quick scan over the by-laws and couldn't find anything on proxies. I agree this should be a part of the by-laws.

Captain T - is there anything? 

If not, please add it to the next agenda for the next Executive/Board Meeting. If the Board doesn't present it as a motion to the AGM, I'll do it myself.


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Stash said:


> I had a quick scan over the by-laws and couldn't find anything on proxies. I agree this should be a part of the by-laws.
> 
> Captain T - is there anything?
> 
> If not, please add it to the next agenda for the next Executive/Board Meeting. If the Board doesn't present it as a motion to the AGM, I'll do it myself.


The only item where a proxy exists is under the voting on members of the Executive. It has been added to our agenda.


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Moparmatty said:


> Great thinking on having a poll on the OAA website. I totally overlooked that one in my previous posts. This is a great idea! Either way though an email or "snail mail" would have to dispatched notifying the membership that something was up for voting on.


Each are good suggestions. In hindsight an online poll would have been a good indicator for the topic in the other thread. Some questions though...

Who's going to do it? Paid staff (costs money)? Currently overworked volunteers? New volunteers (they aren't exactly lining up)?

Is email reliable enough of a method? What about people who don't have email? What happens if the email doesn't make it to the inbox or gets blocked by a spam filter?

The price of snail mail adds up too. Where does this extra money come from? In the budget forecast for the summer of 2010 we were looking to divert some money towards some Senior Travel Teams. Should we redirect that money towards mail? Reduce or eliminate the number of 3D targets that are at the 3D Championship? Increase tournament fees?


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*as before*

Am I not correct that there was an on line poll for the cross bow item so this is not a new thing and costs should not be an issue as it was done before and webmaster is already getting paid and if rulings are done 2 times a year then costs would be in check ....we should not be looking for what if what ifs this thread was to be constructive and efficient if you have a filter or block then take it off just like if you don`t vote in a federal election then don`t whine about it... when we give you our e-mail address it is not really that hard to print if you have blocks then you may not receive e-mails intended to reach you please check your system...


----------



## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Am I not correct that there was an on line poll for the cross bow item so this is not a new thing and costs should not be an issue as it was done before and webmaster is already getting paid and if rulings are done 2 times a year then costs would be in check ....we should not be looking for what if what ifs this thread was to be constructive and efficient if you have a filter or block then take it off just like if you don`t vote in a federal election then don`t whine about it... when we give you our e-mail address it is not really that hard to print if you have blocks then you may not receive e-mails intended to reach you please check your system...


You are correct that the online polling system is already in tact. There would be no cost associated with having a poll. The polling system is anonymous and allows for 1 vote per day and anyone can vote (e.g. Billy Joe in Southern Alabama). A system tied to your membership would need to be developed if that was the route to be taken.

The cost I was referring too would be telling the members about it via mail or the reliability of email as was suggested in a follow up to your suggestion; each are valid methods I would have no problem implementing but both sides of the equation need to be looked at. These are just questions I brought up for discussion.

While it is true the webmaster is "already getting paid" it's only $11/month. If you work it out to an hourly wage it would be well under $1.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

*GRRRRRRRRRReat*

Now we are getting some where and being constructive as well... Aren`t brains simply amazing lol lol well off to my Lessons Kathy will make us shoot in the rain which is not so bad when its 25 or 30 degrees but friggining 10 brrrrr...


----------



## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

I think this is what I was trying to get to in the other thread! Good job Captain and Stan now were getting somewhere. Like I said in the previous thread and pinto reinforced here, an on line poll would help the board make an informed decision and should not cost very much. this should be a much cheaper way to get the word out than mail and more people may get involved this way. 

Now you have to love technology and progress!!c::grouphug::wav:


----------

