# The IBO death spiral continues...



## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

I had a great time this past weekend. Enjoyed the course and pipestem is awesome. Now my shooting on the other hand....lol. I think the ibo put on a great event.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

Larry Kade and his crew put on a great event. Give credit to where credit is due. The ranges have little to do with the captain of the sinking ship. As previously stated poor management, poor customer service and HIS inability to get past HIS ego is effectively destroying the IBO.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

A search will show membership wanting significant changes to be made 10 years ago. If they had any kind of competition for customers they would be non-existent by now. It's unfortunate but you can't be stagnant and be successful but for so long. This moment has been visible for a very long time but the ibo has a chance to survive if the leadership will let it.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

If IBO would get its act together they could provide a real service to archers in the states distant from the hot-bed occupied by ASA.
Looked like they had several vendors there too.
It takes more than a great course to attract shooters, but IBO doesn't seem to be picking up on that fact. Seems like they listen to a hard core group that really goes against their own best interest.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> If IBO would get its act together they could provide a real service to archers in the states distant from the hot-bed occupied by ASA.
> Looked like they had several vendors there too.
> It takes more than a great course to attract shooters, but IBO doesn't seem to be picking up on that fact. Seems like they listen to a hard core group that really goes against their own best interest.


There it is! I appreciate institutional knowledge and experience but when the "business" has obviously fallen way behind a similar business and it's been going on for many years the leaders need to be sent packing, the business must be sold or the business is bankrupted. The owners of the IBO should have sold out long ago since they were incapable of reading the writing on the wall in a span of 10+ years. If I had been the man in charge I would have at least tried some things to keep the large dedicated customer base coming back. 

Some folks would rather let something rot than to give up their ownership or leadership of it. It's a similar mentality to "if I can't sell it for what_ I_ want for it I'll let it rot (or continue to depreciate)". 

If I were looking at investing in the IBO I would be ready to move quickly but I'd also have to figure how far I'd let it deteriorate before making an offer. Another possibility is to simply start a new "business" that squares straight up against the IBO. At one time that would have been a tough sell but now it may not even mildly difficult. At some point host sites will be listening to other ideas and/or realizing that the IBO isn't going to be able to recover and it's time to cut their losses.

The IBO isn't worth today nearly what it was worth just 3 years ago and even then it was worth much less than it was a short time earlier. 

Lancaster Archery Supply started and built their tournament into a world class event with a large number of archers. This was after the NFAA/WAF let their Atlantic City-Pittsburg tournament spiral down the drain. If Rob K. and associates decided to put on a major 3D tournament in western PA I'd "invest" in it!!!!!! The right guys (businessmen) could go straight up against the IBO and the IBO would be done in a matter of days. Why should 1,000's of archers do without so a handful of IBO guys can continue be the "leaders"? The archery community no longer owes the IBO their loyalty IF they ever did!

Personally, the IBO being irrelevant makes it much easier for me to compete in the ASA tournaments. The IBO tournaments are MUCH more convenient to me but the ASA is much more interesting.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I believe the leaders of the IBO must have taken lessons from the NFAA on how to destroy a great Organization. Rule one of the NFAA is to never listen to any members and always bully anyone that might have a good idea. Sounds like the IBO does the same. If the leaders of the IBO needs some advanced training on how to alienate members, they need to contact Bob Borges (NFAA Councilman) from New Mexico.


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

As the OP of this thread let me state that what I wrote in no way reflects on Larry or the people setting up the shoot. I know how hard they work and how difficult the work is. The responsibly for this impending failure is solely on the shoulders of leadership i.e., B.M.


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

GreggWNY said:


> MBO Class
> 
> 2012 First Leg of The Triple Crown = 185 shooters
> 
> ...


Although I agree with you 100000%

Isn't MBO split into money and non-money classes now?


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## robinofthehood (Jun 14, 2010)

GreggWNY said:


> MBO Class
> 
> 2012 First Leg of The Triple Crown = 185 shooters
> 
> ...



2017 1st leg NTC - MBO class - 65 shooters
2017 1st leg NTC - MMO class - 38 shooters

2008 1st leg NTC - MBO class - 221 shooters

2001 1st leg NTC - MBO class - 444 shooters

I'm no math major, but I'm thinking that's about a 78% reduction in the Male Bowhunter Open class over 16 years.
I'm no philosopher, but I'm also thinking "rollin down hill like a snowball headed for hell..."


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

robinofthehood said:


> 2017 1st leg NTC - MBO class - 65 shooters
> 2017 1st leg NTC - MMO class - 38 shooters
> 
> 2008 1st leg NTC - MBO class - 221 shooters
> ...


I remember in the late 90s/early 2000s when there would be 600-1000 shooters in MBO at the World's...my how times have changed


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## trumankayak (Dec 28, 2011)

MBO in the 90's was TOUGH.

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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

I sure hope you guys don't forget us down in here at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club in July. A lot of you guys have been asking us for years why don't we have a major shoot there. To hopefully make things better, we are taking it on for the better of things hopefully. Kyle is on board and in charge and he has proven over the years he knows how to put on a great shoot with Camo Cares every year. A bunch of us are helping him to put a really nice class shoot on for you guys for the 3rd leg. We started a couple months ago and the 1st year is really a lot of work for us for one 3 day weekend. Hopefully some shooters show for all our effort. My hat goes off to Larry Kade now after I am seeing how much work is involved. And we have rather flat rolling property and not mountains to tackle setting up and taking down animals along with all the other things that go with it. Hopefully things will get back to where they use to be. I have been shooting IBO since 1995 and would hate to see it go down the tubes. I have 6 grandsons about to start shooting and would sure like them to get to experience what I have for all these years. The IBO has bent over backwards to help us and make sure this will be a good event. Happy shooting guys.


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## rbtireauto (May 4, 2017)

Cant speak on the national level, but locally in the early 2000's IBO was always events we looked forward to going to here in Iowa, Midwest, you had three triple crown shoots, Iowa, Nebraska and Missouri. They were also world qualifiers, now non are to be found, sure is a shame. Talked to a shooter at the Iowa State marked 3d this past weekend who is trying to bring more ASA style events to the state, the shoot this past weekend was an ASA style event which was very a very nice format.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

draw29 said:


> I sure hope you guys don't forget us down in here at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club in July. A lot of you guys have been asking us for years why don't we have a major shoot there. To hopefully make things better, we are taking it on for the better of things hopefully. Kyle is on board and in charge and he has proven over the years he knows how to put on a great shoot with Camo Cares every year. A bunch of us are helping him to put a really nice class shoot on for you guys for the 3rd leg. We started a couple months ago and the 1st year is really a lot of work for us for one 3 day weekend. Hopefully some shooters show for all our effort. My hat goes off to Larry Kade now after I am seeing how much work is involved. And we have rather flat rolling property and not mountains to tackle setting up and taking down animals along with all the other things that go with it. Hopefully things will get back to where they use to be. I have been shooting IBO since 1995 and would hate to see it go down the tubes. I have 6 grandsons about to start shooting and would sure like them to get to experience what I have for all these years. The IBO has bent over backwards to help us and make sure this will be a good event. Happy shooting guys.


Bunch of us will be out for sure from our club


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## Boatman71 (Jul 16, 2013)

rbtireauto said:


> Cant speak on the national level, but locally in the early 2000's IBO was always events we looked forward to going to here in Iowa, Midwest, you had three triple crown shoots, Iowa, Nebraska and Missouri. They were also world qualifiers, now non are to be found, sure is a shame. Talked to a shooter at the Iowa State marked 3d this past weekend who is trying to bring more ASA style events to the state, the shoot this past weekend was an ASA style event which was very a very nice format.



Perfectly summed up for our state. The local shoots now are nearly a thing of the past compared to 15 years ago.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

statistics are what you make of them, You need to look at the total numbers which i'm sure are declining as well, but way back there were only what 4 classes? so i imagine most of them had way more people than now.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

IBO NE (new England and NY series) are doing pretty well


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

The shoot was set up awesome, Larry did a remarkable job. The IBO is ran old school by old leaders. They need new blood and they need to listen to the public. 

The weather probably kept some away this weekend but not enough to make this big of an absence. 

Until asa is up north I will be IBO. Just not driving all over the country.


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## Hopperton (Oct 30, 2005)

draw29 said:


> I sure hope you guys don't forget us down in here at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club in July. A lot of you guys have been asking us for years why don't we have a major shoot there. To hopefully make things better, we are taking it on for the better of things hopefully. Kyle is on board and in charge and he has proven over the years he knows how to put on a great shoot with Camo Cares every year. A bunch of us are helping him to put a really nice class shoot on for you guys for the 3rd leg. We started a couple months ago and the 1st year is really a lot of work for us for one 3 day weekend. Hopefully some shooters show for all our effort. My hat goes off to Larry Kade now after I am seeing how much work is involved. And we have rather flat rolling property and not mountains to tackle setting up and taking down animals along with all the other things that go with it. Hopefully things will get back to where they use to be. I have been shooting IBO since 1995 and would hate to see it go down the tubes. I have 6 grandsons about to start shooting and would sure like them to get to experience what I have for all these years. The IBO has bent over backwards to help us and make sure this will be a good event. Happy shooting guys.


I know four of us will be there from Cleveland area.&#55357;&#56832;


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

lol....every year for the last 10 years the same post comes up. "IBO is DONE" Yes there are several things that could make the IBO better. But comparing an organization for bowhunting rights to an actual archery competition style business is silly. IBO to me is more of a fund raiser to help protect our bowhunting rights...From the last I heard there was 900ish shooters at the 1st Leg. I think that's pretty good considering not having a Known class. Now if IBO was to add the Known classes, it would blow away ASA numbers I believe. I think once the payouts for the new Money classes are shown, one of the problems IBO is facing with payouts will be partially fixed. I believe it will be quite a bit better. IBO needs some novelty shoots going on to get people to hang out around the vendor area more. I'm not an Elite fan but it was a shame to not to see one of the major sponsors not in attendance. Maybe if the manufacturers would flex their muscles like they did in ASA, maybe the Known classes would finally be made available.. Until then, there wont be any Known classes due to host clubs and contracts saying how many targets and ranges will be needed and bought or rented


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

3dbowmaster said:


> lol....every year for the last 10 years the same post comes up. "IBO is DONE" Yes there are several things that could make the IBO better. But comparing an organization for bowhunting rights to an actual archery competition style business is silly. IBO to me is more of a fund raiser to help protect our bowhunting rights...From the last I heard there was 900ish shooters at the 1st Leg. I think that's pretty good considering not having a Known class. Now if IBO was to add the Known classes, it would blow away ASA numbers I believe. I think once the payouts for the new Money classes are shown, one of the problems IBO is facing with payouts will be partially fixed. I believe it will be quite a bit better. IBO needs some novelty shoots going on to get people to hang out around the vendor area more. I'm not an Elite fan but it was a shame to not to see one of the major sponsors not in attendance. Maybe if the manufacturers would flex their muscles like they did in ASA, maybe the Known classes would finally be made available.. Until then, there wont be any Known classes due to host clubs and contracts saying how many targets and ranges will be needed and bought or rented


The shooters are there for IBO if they'd respond to the market.
The manufacturers aren't going to invest in the expense to set up at a shoot if the people are there to shop and spend.
I shot some IBO. We'd show up at Bedford, shoot our 40 targets, walk through the vendor area, and go home. At an ASA shoot I'm there to prowl their exhibits for three or four days.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

draw29 said:


> I sure hope you guys don't forget us down in here at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club in July. A lot of you guys have been asking us for years why don't we have a major shoot there. To hopefully make things better, we are taking it on for the better of things hopefully. Kyle is on board and in charge and he has proven over the years he knows how to put on a great shoot with Camo Cares every year. A bunch of us are helping him to put a really nice class shoot on for you guys for the 3rd leg. We started a couple months ago and the 1st year is really a lot of work for us for one 3 day weekend. Hopefully some shooters show for all our effort. My hat goes off to Larry Kade now after I am seeing how much work is involved. And we have rather flat rolling property and not mountains to tackle setting up and taking down animals along with all the other things that go with it. Hopefully things will get back to where they use to be. I have been shooting IBO since 1995 and would hate to see it go down the tubes. I have 6 grandsons about to start shooting and would sure like them to get to experience what I have for all these years. The IBO has bent over backwards to help us and make sure this will be a good event. Happy shooting guys.


Thanks for everything you are doing but we won't be there. We are shooting ASA and ONT3D for now. ONT3D has 3 shoots within a 5 hour drive of warren pa and the championship is only 7 hours away. I have heard a lot of great thing about this organization and have talked to some shooters NY that have decide to shoot it also plus some that shot it last year say the shoots are awesome


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

draw29 said:


> I sure hope you guys don't forget us down in here at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club in July. A lot of you guys have been asking us for years why don't we have a major shoot there. To hopefully make things better, we are taking it on for the better of things hopefully. Kyle is on board and in charge and he has proven over the years he knows how to put on a great shoot with Camo Cares every year. A bunch of us are helping him to put a really nice class shoot on for you guys for the 3rd leg. We started a couple months ago and the 1st year is really a lot of work for us for one 3 day weekend. Hopefully some shooters show for all our effort. My hat goes off to Larry Kade now after I am seeing how much work is involved. And we have rather flat rolling property and not mountains to tackle setting up and taking down animals along with all the other things that go with it. Hopefully things will get back to where they use to be. I have been shooting IBO since 1995 and would hate to see it go down the tubes. I have 6 grandsons about to start shooting and would sure like them to get to experience what I have for all these years. The IBO has bent over backwards to help us and make sure this will be a good event. Happy shooting guys.


Gary, that is one IBO event that I do plan on attending. I'll advertise the shoot in my shop as well. Hope it's well attended as it's a great site for a national shoot and I've seen first hand how well you guys do with the Camo Care shoot.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

900 shooters is a lot of shooters!


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Call me bold, but with the outcry from the negligence of IBO. In time, I will be firmly placing the ONT3D crosshairs on the ibo.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

sagecreek said:


> 900 shooters is a lot of shooters!


Ok, for a national shoot? Not Really. 2000+ is a lot of shooters! 

( IBO 1st leg was 838 shooters by my count).


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

The IBO will never be a ASA. These two archery organizations have totally different visions. One is for money and the other is to protect our hunting rights. Regardless of the outcome of either, we have the right to pick the one we want to shoot in. We do not need trash each other.


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## tryinhardarcher (Feb 3, 2006)

They are both for money. Yes the ASA is for profit. Let's pretend the IBO's only intention is to promote our hunting rights. A properly run tournament would raise a whole lot more money for that than the cluster they currently have.
Let's admit the facts, serious tournament shooters generate a whole lot more money than hunters just looking to prepare for season. That is why the IBO tries to host these events, and that is their target audience. With their lack of common sense and refusal to listen to the competitors they are chasing away money for their cause.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

View attachment 5955249


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## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

can someone post up how much money they spend to support bowhunting and just what they spend it on?


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

UncleBear63 said:


> The IBO will never be a ASA. These two archery organizations have totally different visions. One is for money and the other is to protect our hunting rights. Regardless of the outcome of either, we have the right to pick the one we want to shoot in. We do not need trash each other.


Their mission and vision are different but they have a lot in common. For one thing both organizations work with the _same _manufacturers, sponsors, vendors and the same _type _of customer base. Every single person I shoot ASA archery with were bow hunting long before participating in any kind of organized archery competition. I only know a very few folks that shoot 3D that don't bow hunt and they have a back ground in field archery and spot shooting.

On a side note, for many years the archery clubs in central, east and northern Va were close to 100% IBO. Now I dare say archers that are members of the ASA out number IBO members in middle Va. and eastward probably as much as 3 to 1. In northern Va 3D isn't big and the IBO still hangs on. I haven't noticed when or where the VA IBO state championship happens in some years and at one time the IBO was the happening thing around here. I know of a few ranges that have been set up in the last 6 or so years and each are ASA structured. A lot of the "new" (within 6+ years) die hard ASA tournament shooters in my area know little or nothing about the IBO! I'm talking about 100's of archers in my region alone. I know of quite a few guys that in the last 5+ years like myself have completely stopped paying any attention to the IBO let alone consider going to IBO tournaments.

When the organizers and leaders of a charity, organization, business or club can't stop from losing over half their "customers" (members) something _must _change IF the remaining "customers" (members) want to have the organization and tournaments in the future. When a "leader" makes himself being the "leader" the priority over the organization itself things aren't going to turn out so well for the organization. But I perfectly understand when people choose to keep "their" organization under their control at all cost but that does not mean I or anyone else has to pay them money (dues and tournament fees).

There are a LOT of die hard archers that have been IBO members that have simply lost all interest in the IBO. I'm sure the IBO leadership could not care less what I think and do. I think the 1,000's of archers in the IBO market region are missing out on a lot. The archery community is being let down by the IBO leadership. I am hopeful that one day a great "product" will be back in the IBO region drawing even more folks into archery. It's just a matter of who, what, when and where. The name of the product provider isn't relevant to me, I just want to see it growing and building like the ASA in the current IBO region.


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## UncleBear63 (Jan 2, 2016)

I still don't understand why we have to bash any organization when it is our chose to pick which best fits our need. An by the way everyone failed to bring up the severe thunderstorms that rolled thru the weekend.


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## gobblemg (Jun 13, 2006)

Kstigall said:


> Their mission and vision are different but they have a lot in common. For one thing both organizations work with the _same _manufacturers, sponsors, vendors and the same _type _of customer base. Every single person I shoot ASA archery with were bow hunting long before participating in any kind of organized archery competition. I only know a very few folks that shoot 3D that don't bow hunt and they have a back ground in field archery and spot shooting.
> 
> On a side note, for many years the archery clubs in central, east and northern Va were close to 100% IBO. Now I dare say archers that are members of the ASA out number IBO members in middle Va. and eastward probably as much as 3 to 1. In northern Va 3D isn't big and the IBO still hangs on. I haven't noticed when or where the VA IBO state championship happens in some years and at one time the IBO was the happening thing around here. I know of a few ranges that have been set up in the last 6 or so years and each are ASA structured. A lot of the "new" (within 6+ years) die hard ASA tournament shooters in my area know little or nothing about the IBO! I'm talking about 100's of archers in my region alone. I know of quite a few guys that in the last 5+ years like myself have completely stopped paying any attention to the IBO let alone consider going to IBO tournaments.
> 
> ...


 The IBO State Championship is at Augusta Archers on June 10&11.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

UncleBear63 said:


> I still don't understand why we have to bash any organization when it is our chose to pick which best fits our need. An by the way everyone failed to bring up the severe thunderstorms that rolled thru the weekend.


Maybe it's not bashing but rather constructive criticism. There is NOTHING wrong with customers letting management know they aren't satisfied and will not return. If it were mine I'd want to know what customers liked AND disliked. Long before I lost over half my customers I would at _least _try some things to keep them. 

Like I said, a decade ago this topic was beat to death. Now the IBO is a shell of what it was just 7 or 8 years ago. It seems a lot of archers and _vendors _became unsatisfied with the IBO product compared to other archery events.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

gobblemg said:


> The IBO State Championship is at Augusta Archers on June 10&11.


I won't be there. I already have a full tournament schedule for this year. Not counting the ASA championships or other indoor state shoots I have or had 7 out of state tournaments on the schedule. They are the Lancaster Archery Supply Classic, NFAA Indoor Natioanals, ASA Ft Benning, ASA Augusta, ASA London KY, OPA in Pa and finally the ASA Classic. I dropped two ASA's from last year, Metropolis and Paris TX. 

The IBO shoots got pushed aside years ago and then I stopped paying my dues.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Topper1018 said:


> Call me bold, but with the outcry from the negligence of IBO. In time, I will be firmly placing the ONT3D crosshairs on the ibo.


Yelp and that is why we are going to be at ONT3D this weekend


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

hrtlnd164 said:


> View attachment 5955249


That is funny even from you


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Topper1018 said:


> Call me bold, but with the outcry from the negligence of IBO. In time, I will be firmly placing the ONT3D crosshairs on the ibo.


so when are you adding some shoots in the states?


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## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

I have a serious question, why are the Pro and Semi Pro ranges so far away from the vendor area and the rest of the ranges? Never understood why they do that.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

At the 3rd leg coming up in July at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club, the Pro ranges are the closes range's to the Vendor area than any of the others. All the ranges can be walked to,no shuttles at all. We are hoping the locals will come and actually watch the best shooters in the world in action. Bowhunter defense range is 50 yards from the vendor and camping area along with the practice bags. I think you guys and gals will really like this place.


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## TankerSarge (Jan 7, 2011)

UncleBear63 said:


> The IBO will never be a ASA. These two archery organizations have totally different visions. One is for money and the other is to protect our hunting rights. Regardless of the outcome of either, we have the right to pick the one we want to shoot in. We do not need trash each other.


Very well said!! I agree!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

nochance said:


> so when are you adding some shoots in the states?


Well then it wouldnt be ONTario 3D lol


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## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

draw29 said:


> At the 3rd leg coming up in July at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club, the Pro ranges are the closes range's to the Vendor area than any of the others. All the ranges can be walked to,no shuttles at all. We are hoping the locals will come and actually watch the best shooters in the world in action. Bowhunter defense range is 50 yards from the vendor and camping area along with the practice bags. I think you guys and gals will really like this place.


I've shot Fryburg several times. This is one IBO event that I plan on attending. Great venue!


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Well then it wouldnt be ONTario 3D lol


But if NE IBO shooters are not willing to drive far for ASA shoots they probably will not go to Ontario either, personally it would be a short drive for me if they'd build a bridge across the middle of lake Ontario :smile:


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

nochance said:


> But if NE IBO shooters are not willing to drive far for ASA shoots they probably will not go to Ontario either, personally it would be a short drive for me if they'd build a bridge across the middle of lake Ontario :smile:


From Rochester you are probably less than 4 hours to all their shoots already.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

nochance said:


> But if NE IBO shooters are not willing to drive far for ASA shoots they probably will not go to Ontario either, personally it would be a short drive for me if they'd build a bridge across the middle of lake Ontario :smile:


I shot the ONTD3d in Bethany Ontario this past weekend It was a 5 drive from warren pa and worth every minute of it. These shoots are run great with range officials on all ranges. The owners were even on the ranges thru out the weekends to make sure everything was going great.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

jimb2 said:


> I have a serious question, why are the Pro and Semi Pro ranges so far away from the vendor area and the rest of the ranges? Never understood why they do that.


I think they do it intentionally in the ASA so the pro's have less distractions or because if they used the closer ranges folks would whine about the Pro's having the closer ranges. Basically, it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of thing.



draw29 said:


> At the 3rd leg coming up in July at the Fryburg Sportsmans Club, the Pro ranges are the closes range's to the Vendor area than any of the others. All the ranges can be walked to,no shuttles at all. We are hoping the locals will come and actually watch the best shooters in the world in action. Bowhunter defense range is 50 yards from the vendor and camping area along with the practice bags. I think you guys and gals will really like this place.


I think that would be best for the customers been then again some folks will fuss because the Pro's don't have to walk as far as an amateur class.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Topper1018 said:


> Call me bold, but with the outcry from the negligence of IBO. In time, I will be firmly placing the ONT3D crosshairs on the ibo.



Owner ^^^ 


treeman65 said:


> I shot the ONTD3d in Bethany Ontario this past weekend It was a 5 drive from warren pa and worth every minute of it. These shoots are run great with range officials on all ranges. The owners were even on the ranges thru out the weekends to make sure everything was going great.


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## Kiltman (Jun 7, 2013)

I thought IBO was a medical condition?!? :wink:


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Owner ^^^


So what is your point. I traveled from PA to BEthany ONtario for the first ONT3D shoot of the season and before that shoot I had no experience with there shoots . So just because of comments that I read and heard I decided to give it and try it was definitely worth the drive. I am no fan of IBO (due to experiences ) but will not bash them however shooters are missing out if they don't give ONT3D a try. ONT3D listens to the shooters and pay top shooters extremely well hell there was an issue with a little kid screaming on the ranges both days and Eric the owner came out and handle it professionally.
If I remember right there was close to $3500 paid out to shooters at this event. This organization is going to do nothing but grow.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

treeman65 said:


> So what is your point. I traveled from PA to BEthany ONtario for the first ONT3D shoot of the season and before that shoot I had no experience with there shoots . So just because of comments that I read and heard I decided to give it and try it was definitely worth the drive. I am no fan of IBO (due to experiences ) but will not bash them however shooters are missing out if they don't give ONT3D a try. ONT3D listens to the shooters and pay top shooters extremely well hell there was an issue with a little kid screaming on the ranges both days and Eric the owner came out and handle it professionally.
> If I remember right there was close to $3500 paid out to shooters at this event. This organization is going to do nothing but grow.



Easy...i was just stating, didnt know if you knew that was erics handle
Eric and Hailee are great people. I meet eric at one of my first ASA shoots years ago and they guy is an absolute stand up guy! 

Ont3d will just get bigger and better! With eric and haliee running it


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Easy...i was just stating, didnt know if you knew that was erics handle
> Eric and Hailee are great people. I meet eric at one of my first ASA shoots years ago and they guy is an absolute stand up guy!
> 
> Ont3d will just get bigger and better! With eric and haliee running it


Sorry if I came across wrong I just wondered what you ment that's all. Yes Eric and Hailee are great people


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

huteson2us2 said:


> i believe the leaders of the ibo must have taken lessons from the nfaa on how to destroy a great organization. Rule one of the nfaa is to never listen to any members and always bully anyone that might have a good idea. Sounds like the ibo does the same. If the leaders of the ibo needs some advanced training on how to alienate members, they need to contact bob borges (nfaa councilman) from new mexico.


 how true !


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## Tactical-N8 (Feb 14, 2016)

I see a lot of posts in this thread about the IBO ignoring or not listening to their members. Can someone give some examples of the types of requests that they have ignored over the years? I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm simply trying to understand the frustration as I am only in my 2nd year of being an IBO member. I shot at world's last year and will be going back again this year. I'd love to give an ASA event a try but they all seem to be quite a distance from central PA. And so I'm hoping that the IBO succeeds since they seem to have a fair number of shoots around where I live.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

ONE of the problems this year is that IBO and ASA have doubled down...every IBO shoot is the same weekend as the ASA Pro Ams...given the choice, I have to attend the bigger shoots...


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

Davik said:


> ONE of the problems this year is that IBO and ASA have doubled down...every IBO shoot is the same weekend as the ASA Pro Ams...given the choice, I have to attend the bigger shoots...


None of the IBO National triple crown shoots are on the same weekends as ASA Pro-Ams


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## shawn_in_MA (Dec 11, 2002)

Tactical-N8 said:


> I see a lot of posts in this thread about the IBO ignoring or not listening to their members. Can someone give some examples of the types of requests that they have ignored over the years? I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm simply trying to understand the frustration as I am only in my 2nd year of being an IBO member. I shot at world's last year and will be going back again this year. I'd love to give an ASA event a try but they all seem to be quite a distance from central PA. And so I'm hoping that the IBO succeeds since they seem to have a fair number of shoots around where I live.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


THE BIGGEST ONE BY FAR was not starting a known class...hundreds of people signed the petition, most of the directors wanted it, yet the president made sure it was a no go. People have always wanted groups busted up better at a minimum...the logical thing to do would be to go to assigned groups/start times but that isn't gonna happen either.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Tactical-N8 said:


> I see a lot of posts in this thread about the IBO ignoring or not listening to their members. Can someone give some examples of the types of requests that they have ignored over the years? I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm simply trying to understand the frustration as I am only in my 2nd year of being an IBO member. I shot at world's last year and will be going back again this year. I'd love to give an ASA event a try but they all seem to be quite a distance from central PA. And so I'm hoping that the IBO succeeds since they seem to have a fair number of shoots around where I live.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Allowing friends who travel together to shoot together for one thing.


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## Tactical-N8 (Feb 14, 2016)

carlosii said:


> Allowing friends who travel together to shoot together for one thing.



I can see that being a problem. Some local clubs in my area have stopped having money shoots for that reason. A group of buddies would routinely come and turn in crazy high scores. But only when they would shoot together. Does the ASA break groups of friends up for their shoots?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Tactical-N8 said:


> I can see that being a problem. Some local clubs in my area have stopped having money shoots for that reason. A group of buddies would routinely come and turn in crazy high scores. But only when they would shoot together. Does the ASA break groups of friends up for their shoots?


Yes


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Tactical-N8 said:


> I can see that being a problem. Some local clubs in my area have stopped having money shoots for that reason. A group of buddies would routinely come and turn in crazy high scores. But only when they would shoot together. Does the ASA break groups of friends up for their shoots?


The ASA uses a shotgun start. You are assigned to a stake on a range that is assigned to your class. Your group will consist of other archers in your class and you'll meet them at the stake. You will see all the other groups in your class. Basically there is a biog wide trail with many ranges on it. Each 20 target range has 10 target down one side and 10 targets down the other. You may start on target 5 and finish on target 4. The stakes are 45' apart more or less. There is a range official on every range that is readily accessible.


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

nochance said:


> so when are you adding some shoots in the states?


Sorry havent been on here in a while. Our goals are to grow at a controlled rate, no pipe dreams just firm decisive action when its time. The more leverage we gain in the archery industry the easier it will be to tear down the roadblocks of moving into the northern US. We need to focus on firm roots at home first. 
ONT3D in time could become INT3D. Its bold indeed, but Ive said before, if the shooters take a chance on me and show their support I will show you what the northern archery landscape can be.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Topper1018 said:


> Sorry havent been on here in a while. Our goals are to grow at a controlled rate, no pipe dreams just firm decisive action when its time. The more leverage we gain in the archery industry the easier it will be to tear down the roadblocks of moving into the northern US. We need to focus on firm roots at home first.
> ONT3D in time could become INT3D. Its bold indeed, but Ive said before, if the shooters take a chance on me and show their support I will show you what the northern archery landscape can be.


Come on down to Indiana.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

carlosii said:


> Come on down to Indiana.


I like what your thinking lol..

Id be there with a whole SLEW of illinois boys and girls.


Either way eric i need to make it to one up there!


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

...


shawn_in_MA said:


> None of the IBO National triple crown shoots are on the same weekends as ASA Pro
> 
> 
> 
> You're right...sorry, not been on here in awhile...the shoots that conflict are the Winternationals and the Spring Nationals...


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

BowHuntnKY said:


> I like what your thinking lol..
> 
> Id be there with a whole SLEW of illinois boys and girls.
> 
> ...


If your gonna make one, make it the champs in september!


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## wv hoyt man (Feb 17, 2012)

Kstigall said:


> The ASA uses a shotgun start. You are assigned to a stake on a range that is assigned to your class. Your group will consist of other archers in your class and you'll meet them at the stake. You will see all the other groups in your class. Basically there is a biog wide trail with many ranges on it. Each 20 target range has 10 target down one side and 10 targets down the other. You may start on target 5 and finish on target 4. The stakes are 45' apart more or less. There is a range official on every range that is readily accessible.


This is why we moved on to the ASA shoots.
This is why some IBO shooters wont change also. They don't want to shoot assigned times. They want to shoot and score with their " Buddies"


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Tactical-N8 said:


> I can see that being a problem. Some local clubs in my area have stopped having money shoots for that reason. A group of buddies would routinely come and turn in crazy high scores. But only when they would shoot together. Does the ASA break groups of friends up for their shoots?


so maybe the local clubs should have busted up the groups?
Most of the IBO shoots I've been to do.


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## Tactical-N8 (Feb 14, 2016)

nochance said:


> so maybe the local clubs should have busted up the groups?
> Most of the IBO shoots I've been to do.


I agree. But for some reason the local clubs didn't want to do that I guess.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

treeman65 said:


> So what is your point. I traveled from PA to BEthany ONtario for the first ONT3D shoot of the season and before that shoot I had no experience with there shoots . So just because of comments that I read and heard I decided to give it and try it was definitely worth the drive. I am no fan of IBO (due to experiences ) but will not bash them however shooters are missing out if they don't give ONT3D a try. ONT3D listens to the shooters and pay top shooters extremely well hell there was an issue with a little kid screaming on the ranges both days and Eric the owner came out and handle it professionally.
> If I remember right there was close to $3500 paid out to shooters at this event. This organization is going to do nothing but grow.


Just a quick correction here, total payout from the Vanguard shootout in bethany was just over $4500


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Topper1018 said:


> Sorry havent been on here in a while. Our goals are to grow at a controlled rate, no pipe dreams just firm decisive action when its time. The more leverage we gain in the archery industry the easier it will be to tear down the roadblocks of moving into the northern US. We need to focus on firm roots at home first.
> ONT3D in time could become INT3D. Its bold indeed, but Ive said before, if the shooters take a chance on me and show their support I will show you what the northern archery landscape can be.


You HAilee and everyone involved are doing an awesome job.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

BowHuntnKY said:


> I like what your thinking lol..
> 
> Id be there with a whole SLEW of illinois boys and girls.
> 
> ...


You would enjoy every minute I went to the first one of 2017 and now I'm shooting them all. Eric and Hailee really care about the shooters.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Does ONT3D have a web site? A Facebook page?


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## F/F 3Der (Mar 23, 2008)

carlosii said:


> Does ONT3D have a web site? A Facebook page?


Yes they have both.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Looking at the numbers from Bloomington it looks like the death spiral will continue.


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## hdrat (Mar 7, 2009)

It's to bad about Bloomington, best venue ever, IBO or ASA. DNR has got this down, period. Port a potties every 5 targets, along with water jugs, checked constantly. Tough coarse, but very challenging, and nothing stupid. Would like to see all coarses set like this. Great job to the DNR that put this together.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

661 shooters at a national 3D tournament. That includes those who signed up but didn't shoot but who showed up on the tally.

Seriously, IBO needs to review their classes and implement changes or they're going to continue losing out.

Too bad because as I understand it the Indiana DNR went above and beyond to support this shoot.


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## hdrat (Mar 7, 2009)

carlosii said:


> 661 shooters at a national 3D tournament. That includes those who signed up but didn't shoot but who showed up on the tally.
> 
> Seriously, IBO needs to review their classes and implement changes or they're going to continue losing out.
> 
> Too bad because as I understand it the Indiana DNR went above and beyond to support this shoot.


Yes they did. I can understand the reason for IBO to stick to there guns on the fact , 3-d started as a unknown organization. But, you have to change with the times.


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## Mike Gossard (Nov 14, 2009)

There was nothing sad about the 2nd Leg of the IBO National Triple Crown. I have been shooting in the IBO since the late 90's been to all the venues accept PA last year due to my mothers's health. This is one of the finest venues, range, organized, welcoming place I have ever shot. Every place & organization always has challenges, we are archers, bowhunters, men, woman, & children who enjoys the outdoors and enjoying a recreational sport. The IBO a 34 year organization has evolved many times over the years and will continue to do so. A Not-for-Profit organization with a board of 17 members is managed very differently than a For-Profit organization wile a sole proprietor. All need to be included in the promotion of the sport, ALL are good, each is different. WE support what we want and chose not to go to an event as we wish. There is to much negative. (period) My momma still tells me today, if I don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. I believe we can be part of the solution and not the problem, and if we could start there we will influence change. I hear all those who will say that we have done this before and nothing happens, and I get that... please think about 17 different people from different parts of the country coming together to implement change. Give the process time. I know for a fact that the IBO Organization cares. Also Pipestem is great! I am looking forward to PA, and Seven Springs is as good as it gets! Enjoy our sport!


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

hdrat said:


> Yes they did. I can understand the reason for IBO to stick to there guns on the fact , 3-d started as a unknown organization. But, you have to change with the times.


The times are a changing, but maybe not always for the best.


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

After seeing the numbers for the first 2 legs I am wondering what the numbers will be for worlds???


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