# No lies now......shooting distances?



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Best case scenario for me is 25-30 yards and most situations will be less, sometimes significantly less.


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## theloghouser (Aug 16, 2002)

Caribou 25, 40, 35, 20, 45, 60.5 / Moose 60 / Antelope 69 / Elk (to far for Elk but) 74. whitetail 3 to 49 , you be the judge


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

We're talking targets, right? I shoot a lot of field archery, and for that game if you're not comfortable out to 80 yards you may not have much fun.


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## ColoradoNick (Oct 15, 2014)

Elk- 50 yards (5" groups)

At 30 yards I'm usually shooting 2-3" groups.

20 yards better than 50% of the time I'm shooting a 1" group. Usually arrows are touching.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Right now somewhere between 20 and 30. I can get them all on the 80 cm face at 30 but they start to scatter. But I am just starting to give trad/BB serious and regular time. My goal is to get up to the 60m and/or 900 round target distances. I have drilled a 70m 10x once with a woodie but the arrows lying around the bale in the "green ring" same end testify to that being a fair amount of luck.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

streetdoctor said:


> Elk- 50 yards (5" groups)
> 
> At 30 yards I'm usually shooting 2-3" groups.
> 
> 20 yards better than 50% of the time I'm shooting a 1" group. Usually arrows are touching.


You should be in Vegas showing the Pro's how to do it and making an extra $50k for your efforts.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

I feel confident to my point on of 35 yards - target would have to be in a very relaxed position. 20-25 it the animal is still there my arrow will be also. Just shooting targets I keep all my arrows on in the 24" bag to 50yards.


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## ColoradoNick (Oct 15, 2014)

centershot said:


> You should be in Vegas showing the Pro's how to do it and making an extra $50k for your efforts.



Probably but I don't want to embarrass anyone


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Geez....I didn't realize how badly I suck.....ukey:
We're talking trad bow, no sights or releases, right?
And yes, 3D target or block target


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

In hunting deer, 17-18 yd absolute MAX for me. Prefer setting up to be 10 -12. To many things can happen shooting at live animals and handling the pressure of actually making that shot is not something you can mimic shooting at foam targets that dont move, breathe, or bleed. 

I go to 3D shoots plenty every summer and wonder *** business do 80% of these people think is going to happen when an actual shot on an animal presents itself?!

Im also sure we are only going to hear from the 20% of deadly stick shooters in this thread that consistently take game beyond 20yds though. But these same people wouldnt dare take 3D deer target and put it in front of their wifes car and shoot at it from the distances they claim to be so good at now would they? JMO of course!


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

theloghouser said:


> Caribou 25, 40, 35, 20, 45, 60.5 / Moose 60 / Antelope 69 / Elk (to far for Elk but) 74. whitetail 3 to 49 , you be the judge


I think maybe you (and some others) misread the question, or I wasn't clear.
What I meant to say was, at what distance does your confidence begin to dwindle on a dead-nuts shot (or if your confidence doesn't, you start missing the bull anyway?)


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Myth Buster said:


> In hunting deer, 17-18 yd absolute MAX for me. Prefer setting up to be 10 -12. To many things can happen shooting at live animals and handling the pressure of actually making that shot is not something you can mimic shooting at foam targets that dont move, breathe, or bleed.
> 
> I go to 3D shoots plenty every summer and wonder *** business do 80% of these people think is going to happen when an actual shot on an animal presents itself?!
> 
> Im also sure we are only going to hear from the 20% of deadly stick shooters in this thread that consistently take game beyond 20yds though. But these same people wouldnt dare take 3D deer target and put it in front of their wifes car and shoot at it from the distances they claim to be so good at now would they? JMO of course!


Know what? I believe you!:wink:


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## Warren1726 (Oct 11, 2012)

Seriously? Arrows touching at 20 yards, 5" groups at 50 yards consistently? With Trad gear, no sights? That sounds impossible, but I've only been shooting for about 2 months. So, what do I know! I am keeping the arrow in the kill zone at 17-18 yards so I guess I'd be comfortable with hunting at that distance.


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

20 yards is where I do most of my practice shooting at and I feel pretty confident. However, up in a stand with a harness, winter gear, cold hands, no warm ups, trying to be quiet, then 10 to 15 yards. Big maybe on 15, situation would have to be very promising, otherwise I'd wait and see if it would come in closer. 

I have only 12 acres. Would rather not track onto my neighbors fields if I don't have to.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

theloghouser said:


> Caribou 25, 40, 35, 20, 45, 60.5 / Moose 60 / Antelope 69 / Elk (to far for Elk but) 74. whitetail 3 to 49 , you be the judge





streetdoctor said:


> Elk- 50 yards (5" groups)
> 
> At 30 yards I'm usually shooting 2-3" groups.
> 
> 20 yards better than 50% of the time I'm shooting a 1" group. Usually arrows are touching.


You do realize you are posting in the "Traditional" forum...right? Recurves or longbows, no sights, fingers.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I can only shoot out to 45yds at present in my yard. Generally it isn't too difficult to keep the arrows inside 12".
For hunting I don't shoot past 20, too much to go wrong.

Grant


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

J. Wesbrock said:


> We're talking targets, right? I shoot a lot of field archery, and for that game if you're not comfortable out to 80 yards you may not have much fun.


Good question, I assumed we were talking hunting...?


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

The Kirk is talking about robin hoods and groups, so I hope he means targets...lol.


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## 14medlak (May 8, 2012)

About 25-30 yards. I'd prefer closer to 20.


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## George D. Stout (May 11, 2005)

As far as hunting shots go, that is my business, and your range should be your business. It is predicated on how the shot presents itself to me at the time, and whether or not I think I can make it. I shot, and still do, field rounds where distances are 20 ft to 80 yards. When you do that, and become relatively efficient at it, you can have a lot more confidence in what you do in the hunting woods. If you close your mind and think you can never shoot over twenty yards, then you best not shoot over twenty yards, especially at live game.

I start my practice sessions at 50 or 55 yards, and shoot anywhere from ten feet to sixty yards in my side yard. When stump shooting/roving I may shoot as far as I can see to work on shooting the line. Other than that, the situation will call for the shot process. My average shot on deer is about fifteen yards, but I consider myself a good hunter and don't need to shoot all that far. That doesn't mean I won't take a longer shot if I feel I can make it. Only I can decide that at the moment the decision needs to be made.


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

If target - 80% of my shots are in a 8" circle at 20 yards. 25 yards it looks more like a 24" circle. 30+ yards, I will get a few lucky shots off, but good chance I'm spending most of my time looking for arrows... 

I very rarely practice past 20 yards. Just being honest


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## Wobbley (Sep 26, 2014)

I shoot targets mostly at 20 yards. I push out to 30 on some outdoor days. Occasionally out to 40 but with a pretty wide spread when I do. 

I lost an arrow recently shooting at a 3D leopard at 80 yards. Missed by so much I couldn't find the arrow on a flat empty open field. I know it slipped under the grass, but the search circle was so big I couldn't find it. Good thing it was a foam leopard.


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## webster2 (Nov 24, 2013)

Past about 20 yards and for unmarked distances I don't think most 'regular' people can accurately assess distance on a consistently accurate basis, and that often is more of a defining factor than being able to knock dimes off a donut at any given marked distance. 

Methods have been devised to help us cheat a bit and reduce the distance guessing factor, such as gapping off the arrow or bow, manipulating nock point location, lengthening arrows substantially, using high near the eye anchor points, shooting light/fast/flat arrows and of course using sighting devices like pins and crosshairs. The potential trade off is the need for more complicated 'fussing' with bow and arrow setups, potential tuning problems, more attention needed for maintaining exact form, higher stress levels (the constant search for perfection), etc. If your dream is to become a champion target archer then manipulation of technique and equipment to such minute levels may be worth the effort for you. Otherwise, the ability to shoot reasonably well out to 20 yards or so (which most people can learn to do with only modest attention to detail and practice) may be all that you need to meet your goals. 

Most of us (by far, I believe) probably find the latter approach more suitable for our enjoyment of archery. But, there's nothing wrong with pursuing perfection in your shooting if that is where your interests are, even if despite best efforts only a handful ever come close to achieving it.


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## George D. Stout (May 11, 2005)

I start my practice in my side yard at fifty yards or so. Coming from a field shooting background, I have gotten comfortable at ranges some guys won't even consider. But that was a common thing when I was in my prime years. JRW, who posted above, is one of those who can shoot well at any distance he chooses. You make your own limitations and have to live by them. As for how far I shoot at game, that is my business and is decided at the time the shot presents itself. Whether it's five feet or fifty yards, it will be my decision based on my comfort zone, and my personal ability. You should do the same. Most who are good hunters, rarely need to make longer shots; however. there are times when longer shots make sense, and only the hunter can decide. If you don't have the ability to shoot past twenty yards, then likely you should never surpass that. Some of us care about how accurate we are and make it a point to expand those horizons. If you can consistently hit at fifty yards, you will likely be pretty darned comfortable at thirty and under. At any rate, hunting is not a spectator sport, so personal ethics are what keeps folks honest. Only you can make that decision.


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## sprinke (Jul 9, 2015)

This thread makes me feel better about my skills (got my bow about a month ago; shooting just once a week before that for about 3 months). :wink:


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

20 to 40 yards is within my comfort zone.
50 to 70 yards starts to push me outside the comfort zone a bit.
At the longer distances it starts requiring an over the target mid air point of aim as I shoot pretty low DW bows, so I wouldn't call it grouping.
I'm just happy keeping everything on an 80cm target at 70.


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## fallhunt (Aug 2, 2013)

I feel “moderately” confident that within 5 attempts I could make some kind of contact with a motionless tennis ball that had been randomly thrown in my yard at any distance that was 12 yards or less away from me.

Yeah, I know. I am no Byron Ferguson, Rick Welch, Rod Jenkins, or Fred Asbell!


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Warren1726 said:


> Seriously? Arrows touching at 20 yards, 5" groups at 50 yards consistently? With Trad gear, no sights? That sounds impossible, but I've only been shooting for about 2 months. So, what do I know! I am keeping the arrow in the kill zone at 17-18 yards so I guess I'd be comfortable with hunting at that distance.


Did a trad division in an outdoor target tournament where we shot 10-20-30 and the best people were stacking at 10, in the 10 ring (122 cm) at 20, and in the gold most of the time at 30. I see it as a product of three things:
1) having built up some draw weight but not overbowing in the target sense (I shoot in the 20s and think it limits top end precision), if you're in the 30s or 40s and can handle the weight all day, you can stack easier;
2) consistent form in the trad context (I'd gotten decent at OR plus had the tools like a clicker, was happy to finally denock a trad arrow last night); and
3) the ability to either tune the bow to point on or at least discern a consistent aim point in the gap. Anything is better than space and if you've tuned it to point on you're golden.

But I saw people in that trad division who could shoot 280 NFAA and basically more accurate than me with OR and a sight. This is one of those things like people who want me to tell them 15 is max distance where I think people underestimate capabilities. Any trad bow should shoot at least 50-60 easy and enough expertise you can be as good as a great deal of the OR segment, but not the very best.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Captainkirk said:


> Geez....I didn't realize how badly I suck.....ukey:
> We're talking trad bow, no sights or releases, right?
> And yes, 3D target or block target


Probably not as bad as you think. Lots of these internet heros can't crack 240 on the NFAA 300 target, yet they shoot 3" groups at 30 yards all day long....maybe they take the best 3 out of a dozen?


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

Targets... I rejoined a club and now have an area to shoot long distance. If I have the distance down I'll shoot whatever. I've been doing a lot of practice at 50-75 yards and I've been shooting at a buffalo 3D target. At those distances my expectation is to keep it in the vitals on every shot. It doesn't happen all the time but I'm getting close. 

Normal ranges, 30 and in, I expect to shoot 10's on a 3D target. 

Hunting, that's a different story. Very dependent on the situation. I like a nice 10-12 yard shot but I've killed stuff at longer distances, too.


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## davidflorida (Jun 21, 2012)

hunting 15 ..... shooting nothing but broad heads for he last month , bet my next 300 round will be pretty bad.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

I am cheating by Stringwalking, on marked Field distances I can keep them in the 5/4 zone consistently out to 65y.

This is walkback training 15 yards out to 70 yards, one shot every 5 yards, I can't do this every day but average days I can keep them all on paper shooting a 40cm hunter face and my groups normally start to open up around 50yards. Unmarked 3D get a little tricky and estimating distance can add some tension into the shot under tourney pressure. Earlier this year I broke into low 290's on the 300 round, I've yet to break it in competition, I hope this winter season it will happen.:thumbs_up 









Going through a low patch at the moment, had some equipment issues which killed my confidence, I see the light at the end of the tunnel, my shooting is on the way back up but it's a slow/hard process.


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## tnbn75 (Aug 3, 2015)

my best group ever is 3 arrows 2 inch group at 65 yards on a 3D target about 6 inches from the spot. 

Best end ever 70, 65, 61, 58 yard hunter walkup. 18 points. bulleyes at 70,65,61, and a three at 58 yards. On a good day i can keep 4 arrows in a 12" circle in the area of the bullseye at 100 yards. 

ILF recurve and yes this is without a sight.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

I dont know if you'll ever get "No lies" results with this question. Most tend to give their best groups as their average groups. I agree with the dude who said when you watch a lot of hunters shoot on the course you wonder how they plan to hit a deer when they cant hit foam.


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## nvision (Feb 23, 2015)

streetdoctor said:


> Elk- 50 yards (5" groups)
> 
> At 30 yards I'm usually shooting 2-3" groups.
> 
> 20 yards better than 50% of the time I'm shooting a 1" group. Usually arrows are touching.


Traditional shooting? Got a video? It would inspire all of us. Really.


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## jeeckel (Mar 22, 2013)

everything i do revolves around hunting so i will say 20yds. i did kill 1 deer with my harley but it was like point blank couldnt even do that at 50yds lol


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## Sauk Mountain (Aug 3, 2015)

Captainkirk said:


> I think maybe you (and some others) misread the question, or I wasn't clear.
> What I meant to say was, at what distance does your confidence begin to dwindle on a dead-nuts shot (or if your confidence doesn't, you start missing the bull anyway?)


I notice that past 30 yards, my consistency is poor, but typically my first shot is fairly close to where I wanted the arrow to go if that makes sense. Even at 30 I'm not that great. This thread has inspired me to start increasing the distance I shoot at and push myself to get better beyond 30.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

I'd say I also have different expectations depending on the bow being shot, and how serious I'm taking the shooting at that moment.
Shooting my Black Douglas Mirage at 20 yards on this target, I expect every shot in the gold.
Shooting my much heavier Sky TR-7 riser at the same target and distance, I like to see 4 of 5 in the 10 ring.


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## 108548 (Jul 31, 2008)

Just getting back into the swing of it..20 yards for me. 'Course I'd let one fly if a bruiser cruised by at 35 haha


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## PSUBowhunter (Jul 10, 2006)

first off, this is a very bad question to ask online, as the online shooters generally shoot better than any of the best shooters in the world. No trad archer, and i mean NO trad archer, is consistently stacking arrows at 20 yards, or shooting 5" groups at 50. Is it done, yes, but not consistently. The best archers in the world don't shoot this good. 

For me, depends on the game and how much I've been practicing at longer distances. For a typical whitetail hunt, id shoot 25-30 yards. When i go out west, i practice to 50 or 60 yards so that i can shoot to 45 comfortably. When i practice a lot, i can hit a small 3d target in the vitals on every shot at 45-50 yards. 

So, don't ever base your skills on what you read online, as there not realistic.


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## moog5050 (Oct 23, 2012)

25yds and in I am confident on killing deer. 30 would have to be the perfect broadside plenty of time type shot. Since 35 is point on for me, I actually prefer that to 30. Not shooting beyond 35 while hunting, but I hunt eastern hardwoods swamps. Not likely to happen anyways.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Tiberious -



PSUBowhunter said:


> first off, this is a very bad question to ask online, as the online shooters generally shoot better than any of the best shooters in the world. No trad archer, and i mean NO trad archer, is consistently stacking arrows at 20 yards, or shooting 5" groups at 50. Is it done, yes, but not consistently. The best archers in the world don't shoot this good.
> 
> For me, depends on the game and how much I've been practicing at longer distances. For a typical whitetail hunt, id shoot 25-30 yards. When i go out west, i practice to 50 or 60 yards so that i can shoot to 45 comfortably. When i practice a lot, i can hit a small 3d target in the vitals on every shot at 45-50 yards.
> 
> So, don't ever base your skills on what you read online, as there not realistic.


Pretty much. When ever some body takes a picture of a group, there's a reason for it. 

Bottom line, the guys shooting top level scores are using a sight, whether a physical one or part of the bow/arrow and have their form down. 
Don't let the 80 yard field course throw you. There are two, count 'em TWO 80 yard shots on a full field course, that's TWO out of 112 for record. The average shot is about 50 yds (you can do the math if you like). There's a world of difference between that that 72 arrow at 70M (76 yards), but I digress. 

BTW - long time no type, _A Tale of Two Dusters_ is sitting on my nightstand. still a few books ahead of it.

Viper1 out.


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

I just finished the 5 day NFAA outdoor Field Nationals about 3 weeks ago. I shot longbow Division & in those 5 days shot with some exceptional, long time Longbow AND traditional recurve shoots. No string walkers in recurve but all were 3 under. No sights, fingers & up to & including 80 yds. 112 arrows a day. I shot with 5 different shooters in my groups during the 5 days & must say, none to shabby. No one was STACKING arrows at 40 or over. In fact, little stacking over 20. Regardless, overall scores were impressive but there were some"looking" for arrows beyond that 50 yd mark by all of us at 1 time or another. That being said, I shot the same national tournament LAST year & 6 different shooters in those 5 days with COMPOUNDS. Yes, I shot & witnessed some pretty great groups through 50 yds but even then, with all the releases, hunting sights & compounds things got a little bigger after that. With my Longbow, I'm very comfortable to 20 & with my compound 40 but even with my compound I keep it under 30 hunting. I've managed 38 Biggame animals with recurves & no sights back in my youth & shooting practically daily & field courses back then (1956 through mid 70s). Thinking back, overall average of those shots were under 20 yds. Now, all the rest of those years have been with compound & wide variety of animals I've managed to take well over an additional 100 & still average 25 or less.. I know exactly how many over 35 yds & it's only a few (2 Elk both 35 yds, 1 Whitetail buck 55 yds, 1 Buffalo 42 yds). I prefer ANY shot with either at 20 or less.
I did manage to set a new record score for the Longbow 28 animal round in my division & I was far from 4" groups at any yardage. I do shoot better on the internet so I posted some photos of the shoot..


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Wow...this thread has kicked up some seriously good responses I hadn't expected!
Yes, I can tell you with a straight face I have nailed my McKenzie from across the yard (40 yards). Would I take this shot at a real, live, breathing animal? In hunting gear? At dusk or dawn when I'm freezing my ass off?
Not even close.
I think we all want to admit we are better than we really are. We don't usually post photos of the bad groups or talk about a 25 yarder that completely missed a 3D deer....that would make us sound like we might.....suck?
Well, then I suck. Because I've made that "***!!??" shot and wondered how in the hell you miss a 3D deer...and then put two in the same hole immediately afterwards.
I'm not afraid to admit it.
It limits my real-life hunting shooting distance to 20-and-under (with 10-15 being optimum) but I don't care. Better to take a bye than wound an animal.
I don't question anyone's claims as to their shooting or grouping abilities. That was not my intent or purpose. If you feel you can nail da t'irdy point buck at 50 with a clear conscience, go nuts. But I do appreciate some of the more candid replies by those who have limited their shots based on their own judgement...as have I...and to see I'm not alone in my thinking.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

PSUBowhunter said:


> No trad archer, and i mean NO trad archer, is consistently stacking arrows at 20 yards, or shooting 5" groups at 50. Is it done, yes, but not consistently. The best archers in the world don't shoot this good.
> 
> So, don't ever base your skills on what you read online, as there not realistic.


I believe it is possible for some people, the difference is they're doing it in their back yard and not in a world stage where the pressure can mess with your shot big time. I had the pleasure of shooting against the Fin Timo Leskinen at world Indoors this year, he broke the 10 year old 300 record of 291, you might now say I hear people shoot those scores all the time but this is high pressure situation where that record, world title is prestigious and makes that score quite an achievement. Two weeks previous he shot a Finnish record of 299 at his Nationals.

It's always impressive to see pics of tight groups, it inspires people to be better, I take pics of my own good groups to remind me on my off days that I can shoot great groups when all the Planets align, the cold hard truth for me is in my 300 scores, Gapping mid/high 260's was a decent score for me, SW has given me more confidence and pushed me into the mid/high 280's 

60 arrows at 20y tells no lies about what you can really do, it is ok to take those pics but do a 300 round if you dare to know the real truth about your own shooting. :thumbs_up


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

steve morley said:


> I believe it is possible for some people, the difference is they're doing it in their back yard and not in a world stage where the pressure can mess with your shot big time. I had the pleasure of shooting against the Fin Timo Leskinen at world Indoors this year, he broke the 10 year old 300 record of 291, you might now say I hear people shoot those scores all the time but this is high pressure situation where that record, world title is prestigious and makes that score quite an achievement. Two weeks previous he shot a Finnish record of 299 at his Nationals.
> 
> It's always impressive to see pics of tight groups, it inspires people to be better, I take pics of my own good groups to remind me on my off days that I can shoot great groups when all the Planets align, the cold hard truth for me is in my 300 scores, Gapping mid/high 260's was a decent score for me, SW has given me more confidence and pushed me into the mid/high 280's
> 
> 60 arrows at 20y tells no lies about what you can really do, it is ok to take those pics but do a 300 round if you dare to know the real truth about your own shooting. :thumbs_up


It doesn't even have to be the world stage to mess things up for me.
At 20 yards I can consistently shoot inside a 6" center on the 80 or 122 cm target all day long whether in my back yard, or in front of 100 people at the range.
But you put a blue target face up and after 12 ends I'm mentally exhausted and didn't shoot nearly as well as I seemingly should have.
The crazy thing is the target centers are the same size, gold on an 80cm is the 4-5 rings on a 300 round blue spot target. it's the added pressure of that set number of arrows in a set number of ends that messes me up.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

I like to think of it as percentages and probability. If I am at 30 yards, which I shoot a lot in my back yard, I usually get two or three arrows in the center 3 inch circle. I shoot 12 arrows at a time. So three arrows in the center is a 25 percent success rate. Not good enough to shoot at an animal. I have a 75 percent chance of wounding it.

I am not a lot better at 25 yards. Except the size of the wound area has gotten smaller. Probably really worse since some arrows at 30 yards would probably have missed completely while at 25 almost all but two or three would wound it.

At 20 yards, I am starting to be dangerous. Probably 4 to six arrows are killing shots where I aim them. Still I only have a 50 percent chance of killing it, so that would be a no.

At 10 yards, I have a 90 percent chance of hitting inside of the 3 inch circle. I only shoot 3 or four arrows at that range at any time to limit my arrow damage. I can frequently hit the one inch center of the target. 

Out to 15 yards, I am probably around 75 percent chance to be inside 3 inches with a 95 percent chance to be inside of 5 inches. 

So, if I were hunting, I would feel comfortable at less than 15 yards. But at that range I have to look into their eyes and I don't like venison.


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## Jeb-D. (Sep 21, 2011)

For target, I can keep all my arrows on a 40cm target face out to 60 yards (it's as far as the range I practice at has). I found that things become much different once you pass that 25 yard mark. Going from 20 to 30 yards was a big transition, but once I got a hang of 30 yards all larger distances were learned pretty quick.


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## Doofy_13 (Jan 2, 2012)

20 yards max for me in a hunting situation. 15 yards prefered and that is what I set myself up for. 10 yards is easy.


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## Warren (Dec 3, 2014)

I kill about 10-12 a year on average with my bow and then a few more with hounds and shotgun and one or two with rifle. All the bowkills are usually within 30 yards or closer with the occasional longer. Funny my groups are better usually at 30 than 20 at least consistently . I tend to over aim at 20 and torqe my bow at times. 30 i let it float more i guess.


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## Warren (Dec 3, 2014)

well to be honest the group at 20 may be better but sometimes the poi is all to one side etc is what I mean . If i really focus on relaxing etc and not over aiming it doesn't happen as bad


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## Will Tell (Mar 10, 2014)

I think archery is a lot like fishing, the more you tell the story the longer the fish gets and the further the target fets.lol


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## Sauk Mountain (Aug 3, 2015)

I should clarify that when I refer to groups as being good or bad, I'm simply referring to whether they're all in a 6-8" circle or not.


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

WOW...Judging by some of the comments, Im guessing some of you are pretty good at tracking deer long distances just to come up empty. Just a guess though. 

The original post asked where people draw the line at taking a shot at a live animal and to be honest about it. I think he asked a great question and one I'm very curious of as well.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

steve morley said:


> I believe it is possible for some people, the difference is they're doing it in their back yard and not in a world stage where the pressure can mess with your shot big time. I had the pleasure of shooting against the Fin Timo Leskinen at world Indoors this year, he broke the 10 year old 300 record of 291, you might now say I hear people shoot those scores all the time but this is high pressure situation where that record, world title is prestigious and makes that score quite an achievement. Two weeks previous he shot a Finnish record of 299 at his Nationals.
> 
> It's always impressive to see pics of tight groups, it inspires people to be better, I take pics of my own good groups to remind me on my off days that I can shoot great groups when all the Planets align, the cold hard truth for me is in my 300 scores, Gapping mid/high 260's was a decent score for me, SW has given me more confidence and pushed me into the mid/high 280's
> 
> 60 arrows at 20y tells no lies about what you can really do, it is ok to take those pics but do a 300 round if you dare to know the real truth about your own shooting. :thumbs_up


+1, in all the 300 rounds I have shot I have only managed 2 rounds without shooting at least one 3. Keeping 60 arrows all in the 4/5 rings is a very difficult task. That is indoors at known ranges with good footing. Outside with the wind, rain, sun adds to that challenge.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Captainkirk said:


> OK, yeah, yeah.....we've all peeled a feather or done a Robin Hood at twenty yards or better. I've shot 3-shot groups at 20 yards you could cover with a silver dollar. Truthfully.
> But, truth be told, it's not very often.
> We all talk about our 'max shooting distance' on deer and other game. But what is your real, preferred target range distance for shooting trad?
> *I've found that 10-12 yards gets very costly in terms of collateral damage to arrows, but 18-20 opens up my groups to the point I am reminding myself that I suck on consistency.* Not that I can't or don't put one right down the pipes at that distance, but it's the fact that the next shot might be 4-6 inches from it.
> ...



Interesting discussion and some very interesting responses.

I guess I misunderstood the original question. I took it as *at what distance do you go from consistent damage to arrows to opening up to the point that you don't have much collateral damage any more.*

For me, while I'm comfortable taking shots on game at 20 yards, I'm not too concerned about damaging arrows at that distance. For me, actually wrecking nocks and fletching is really only a concern at about 12 yards and in.

Here would be an interesting question for someone to ask. 

John Demmer recently set a new indoor barebow record at 18 meters. If I'm not mistaken, he shot a 573 out of 600. I don't know if he was using a single face target but if he was, I wonder how many arrows he had to set aside due to nock/fletching damage.

KPC


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Myth Buster said:


> WOW...Judging by some of the comments, Im guessing some of you are pretty good at tracking deer long distances just to come up empty. Just a guess though.
> 
> The original post asked where people draw the line at taking a shot at a live animal and to be honest about it. I think he asked a great question and one I'm very curious of as well.


Perhaps I read the OP differently then some but it seems pretty clear he was talking about targets, NOT animals.

Grant


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

grantmac said:


> Perhaps I read the OP differently then some but it seems pretty clear he was talking about targets, NOT animals.
> 
> Grant


That's what I thought also.

It's turned out a good topic regardless, if your consistent and confident on target faces/3D's out to 40-50y then I would think a 15 to 25y hunting shot shouldn't ever become a confidence issue for the Archer.


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

Captainkirk said:


> OK, yeah, yeah.....we've all peeled a feather or done a Robin Hood at twenty yards or better. I've shot 3-shot groups at 20 yards you could cover with a silver dollar. Truthfully.
> But, truth be told, it's not very often.
> We all talk about our 'max shooting distance' on deer and other game. But what is your real, preferred target range distance for shooting trad?
> I've found that 10-12 yards gets very costly in terms of collateral damage to arrows, but 18-20 opens up my groups to the point I am reminding myself that I suck on consistency. Not that I can't or don't put one right down the pipes at that distance, but it's the fact that the next shot might be 4-6 inches from it.
> ...


This was the part that I was referring to in bold red from the OP that made me believe he was referring to hunting distances.
If he in fact did mean practice targets as per his statement "target range" near the top of his paragraph, then my bad, I misunderstood. Maybe he could come in an clarify this for us.


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## fentiger (Oct 22, 2013)

Used to shoot single string with DLoop, peep, WB rest, compound sights and a release longest kill 33-35yds on a feral goat that went less than 20yds, [guide wanted to see penetration]. 

Since switching to single string BB have only had one game shot over bait [a 50-60# Floridian pig] at 22yds [less than 50yd tracking].

Self imposed limit of 20-25yds BUT have not drawn bow back in 10 yrs of Calif hunting;-[ SW with 5/10/20/30/ raised threads on bowstring, bottom of nock 40yds [confidence boosting tactile sights].

Have an 80yd backstop measuring 5'x5' and need all of it and more sometimes. Practice to 80yds daily, plenty of exercise one shot at a time! 90yd downhill target backstop died in a windstorm and too many "honey do" projects ahead of revamping.

Personal goals are 2" to POA at 10yds, 4" at 20 all the way to 16" for 80yds. Very rarely shoot groups. However for hunting practice, shoot 1 BH and 1 FP

Nowhere close to my goal and can guarantee that even at close range group will get progressively worse.

Have only turned in one scorecard in 4 yrs of shooting and it was marked 3D. Without SWing I would not be hunting BB. Practicing at very long range for me makes form issues very obvious. Oopses often measured in feet but for some reason not as hard on my confidence as a "3" at 20yds.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I'd really like to stay inside 15 for hunting deer.

When it comes to foam or paper, I'm comfortable shooting whatever, because if I miss, so what? I'm not competing at the olympics. I'm never planning on being close enough to win anything that's worth anything more than Internet Bragging Rights, and even something like that, if I care much, it won't happen, because worrying screws with shot execution....

So long as I know what my aiming reference is, a shot is a shot is a shot. 100 yards is the same as 3, is the same as 300. Obviously, accuracy degrades as distance increases, but that's probably why the targets (and scoring rings) get larger 

It does take awhile to get comfortable with different, unfamiliar situations, in which case, there is an easy fix. Get out of your yard and miss a lot. Eventually, you figure out what you need to do, it's no big thing, and then arrows start landing.


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

You guys are ALL right....initially I WAS discussing 3D/target shooting, but _with reference _to a hunting situation. When my patterning starts to open up to where I'm not hitting arrows, I have to think I'm approaching max kill-zone range. Would you agree?
4 inches off from intended strike spot can be the difference between a vital hit and a pass-thru in many cases. And if my first arrow on a 3D or block target is dead nuts and the third is 4 inches away, what does this tell me?
I should not be taking this shot on a live animal.
Agree/disagree?


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

centershot said:


> +1, in all the 300 rounds I have shot I have only managed 2 rounds without shooting at least one 3. Keeping 60 arrows all in the 4/5 rings is a very difficult task. That is indoors at known ranges with good footing. Outside with the wind, rain, sun adds to that challenge.


And mosquitoes...


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

This is a small portion of animals I've taken . ONE Boar hog was shot at 25 yards & dropped in 30. Everything else was shot at 20 yards OR LESS & recovery for everything was under 40 yds (recurves & Compound kills). Caribou I dropped in his tracks, running 10 yds. & arrow deflected, lung hit & into spine, I put a 2nd arrow in him but wasn't needed. Most of my hits were Double lungs.


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## emac396 (Jul 7, 2010)

I practice out to 30 but 20 is max for being consistent


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## tnbn75 (Aug 3, 2015)

I have a rinehart tom Turkey target in the backyard i start missing the kill at 30. Of course is have the darn thing quartering away from me. prob should give myself an easier shot but what's the point of that. 

My bow is setup for hitting at long distances though. 70 yard point on. right now only shooting at paper. trying to change that soon.


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## 2wheels1love (Mar 7, 2015)

With my Trad bow anything over 30 and I'm real sketchy. Don't shoot it as much as I'd like to as my compound has fully taken over my archery addiction. But yea over 30 and I'm not confident with trads...


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

Captainkirk said:


> You guys are ALL right....initially I WAS discussing 3D/target shooting, but _with reference _to a hunting situation. When my patterning starts to open up to where I'm not hitting arrows, I have to think I'm approaching max kill-zone range. Would you agree?
> 4 inches off from intended strike spot can be the difference between a vital hit and a pass-thru in many cases. And if my first arrow on a 3D or block target is dead nuts and the third is 4 inches away, what does this tell me?
> I should not be taking this shot on a live animal.
> Agree/disagree?


100% agree! 

And I might add the supposed "pie plate" size kill zone all these deer seem to have is NOT shaped anything like a circular pie plate.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Nothing here mentions poundage. Hunting guys will be shooting more poundage than most target/3D shooters.
I can shoot better at 25 and 30 yards with the 42# limbs, but prefer heavier limbs (52#) and under 20 yards for hunting shots at deer. Too much brush between me and the deer as the arrows arc to the deer, and longer shots and lower poundage add to that.
NFAA targets are great for showing you consistency and form. I am not a fan of the scoring rings on 3D animals as I don't think they accurately represent killing shots in many cases. A lot of deer targets have an "8" for a heart shot. I still like to shoot the paper deer targets as it helps me to pick a spot.


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## fentiger (Oct 22, 2013)

Captainkirk,

Much better to have first shot OK [95%+ in vitals] at your designated effective range than be the archer who needs warm up shots [before vitals hit] but groups well after that.

It took me several years before I no longer needed a backup "single string compound" for hunting when I ran into rough spots shooting BB. Switching to SWing from various forms of gapping was the key for me.


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## ColoradoNick (Oct 15, 2014)

oops! Didn't realize I was in the trad forum. 

I only shoot compound.

Today's first 3 arrows at 80 yards


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Ok now I want to see what's coming with the new longbow I know you can do it !


ahunter55 said:


> This is a small portion of animals I've taken . ONE Boar hog was shot at 25 yards & dropped in 30. Everything else was shot at 20 yards OR LESS & recovery for everything was under 40 yds (recurves & Compound kills). Caribou I dropped in his tracks, running 10 yds. & arrow deflected, lung hit & into spine, I put a 2nd arrow in him but wasn't needed. Most of my hits were Double lungs.


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## Paul68 (Jul 20, 2012)

In my younger hillbilly days, some buddies and I would shoot at one of the tin lids from a Copenhagen can. I haven't seen one in awhile, but guess they are 3" +/-. At 20 yds, a lid would last awhile, and low score on the night had to buy, which led to some competitive events. At 30 yds, the lids would have made it thru the night with fewer holes than bin laden. 

Kit has improved immensely since then (especially with carbons, FF strings and limb designs). Coaching and information is also so much more abundant, however, my best bet after 30 yds is making obscene and threatening gestures towards the target. 

Put me down for 20 yds and a piece of humble pie. I couldn't keep pace with most of this group.


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## cpnhgnlngct (Dec 9, 2010)

Hunting weight bows, kill zone 45 out of 50 arrows at 25 yards. (25 yard fixed crawl)

At 30 yards, 35ish out of 50 arrows in kill. (Kill zone on the deer side of the rhinehart block, pretty challenging standards)

43 out of 50 , 20 yards and under (get sloppy and lose focus)

These are rough estimates, but would be pretty accurate with my hunting bows.

But most of the game animals I kill are under 20 yards. A few deer at 25 yards. Haven't shot at a deer over 25 I don't think.

Target bows and my target rig, back yard, those numbers get slightly better, but at a tournament with pressure, those numbers might get worse


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

Paul68 said:


> In my younger hillbilly days, some buddies and I would shoot at one of the tin lids from a Copenhagen can. I haven't seen one in awhile, but guess they are 3" +/-. At 20 yds, a lid would last awhile, and low score on the night had to buy, which led to some competitive events. At 30 yds, the lids would have made it thru the night with fewer holes than bin laden.
> 
> Kit has improved immensely since then (especially with carbons, FF strings and limb designs). Coaching and information is also so much more abundant, however, my best bet after 30 yds is making obscene and threatening gestures towards the target.
> 
> Put me down for 20 yds and a piece of humble pie. I couldn't keep pace with most of this group.


It is what it is, while I can punch paper at known distances, if you put me in a tree stand and a deer walked out at some unknown distance I'd be a fool to think of pulling string on it with my form of aiming, so just hand over what's left of the pie.

For me first shots at unknown distances are like sighter rounds. It'll take one or two before I get the range. Not at all productive for hunting situations.


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## webster2 (Nov 24, 2013)

Good discussion, CaptKirk. 

GBUSA, I couldn't have said it better. There definately is a notable difference between average and attainable accuracy under target shooting conditions (where yardage is known, shots are pre-practiced and gear is designed for repetitive pinpoint accuracy) compared to most hunting conditions where basically every aspect of the shot will be a last-minute surprise. In fact, if we all could collectively agree that 'target shooting' and 'hunting shooting' deserve their own equal measures of respect as archery disciplines I do believe the 'trad community' would not only benefit but be alot happier...not to mention becoming a force to be reckoned with in how the public regards archery. That ole' united we stand thing.

Recognize skill, respect the animal, give others due courtesy even in disagreement, stay archery passionate but also archery humble, be disciplined in methods and mindset, refuse to compromise on fairness, maintain the integrity of our sport, and don't forget to have some fun while you're at all of it. Who says shooting arrows needs to be a Hatfields and McCoys affair?

Quick beam us up CaptKirk, before the peace time warp continueum disappears forever.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

feel great at 20 yds and thats my absolute max for hunting with the longbow. For fun ill shoot at 40 but would never consider shooting that far with my longbow. Maybe someday but no time soon im sure 

I did have one day when I felt unstopable with my titan though, shot some 3d with a few guys that used compounds and shot at there stakes. Ended up beating them and making some dang good 40yd 10 rings. Sadly the next day history didnt repeat itself lol


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Anybody else walk around hunting with a range finder? If nothing else, good practice estimating distance...

It isn't like, because you're hunting, and you don't have pins, that you necessarily must not know beyond a best guess, or can't at least make better guesses.


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## milesmcc (Sep 28, 2014)

Nothing against compound shooters but I asked this question on the trad forum before and pretty much the only answers you get are from compound guys shooting 80 yards and bla bla bla... Traditional I would be iffy something after 20 but only depending on circumstances.. I'd shoot to 30 if it was a clear relaxed picture perfect sight


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## airwolf (Jul 28, 2005)

streetdoctor said:


> Elk- 50 yards (5" groups)
> 
> At 30 yards I'm usually shooting 2-3" groups.
> 
> 20 yards better than 50% of the time I'm shooting a 1" group. Usually arrows are touching.


yep with a sighted compound


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## marcelxl (Dec 5, 2010)

Enlightening thread!

Not so much now as I have been tinkering ready for September but I practice up to 30yd pretty hard with those being usual 3D distance and I suppose within that would be realistic hunting distance.

Now please bear in mind this is just my backyard range so no pressure and targets I am comfortable and familiar with…….

Up to 10 I can get 2" groups and often touching or damage occurring but I don't often hammer this distance only for formwork without any aiming whatsoever……but even then I guess my subconscious does! 

20 I am in the 10 normally on my 3D deer and baseball sized on my butts pretty solidly.

30 I would say 6" but regularly more spread out to cover 8-10" if I am tired/not concentrating and currently working on this.

I used to do walk backs out to 50 and keep them all on a 3D deer with an occasional flier

I have just started working out my percentages of 3D shoots to keep an eye on my consistency and gauging how well I am doing. Last weekend was a tough, "hunting style" (according to the organisers!) 3D shoot and I worked out I got 84% so take that FWIW, I had a good weekend of solid, confident shooting after doing lots of form drills!


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Yep


BarneySlayer said:


> Anybody else walk around hunting with a range finder? If nothing else, good practice estimating distance...
> 
> It isn't like, because you're hunting, and you don't have pins, that you necessarily must not know beyond a best guess, or can't at least make better guesses.


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## Cold Weather (Dec 17, 2008)

15 yards. I have grouped arrows on a rabbit target at 20. I would love to shoot with accuracy to 30


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

webster2 said:


> Quick beam us up CaptKirk, before the peace time warp continueum disappears forever.


That ship already sailed....

From the tone of the 'realists' here.....I'm beginning to think I should set up shooting lanes in the 15-20yd range with 25 as a max. In full hunting regalia in cold fall/winter weather, anything much over 25 yards will likely be a miss.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

I'd love to set up a 3D course with nothing but 10-20 yard "hunting" shots at STEEL targets - only foam being the kill zone. 

Fun times ;-)


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Matt_Potter said:


> I'd love to set up a 3D course with nothing but 10-20 yard "hunting" shots at STEEL targets - only foam being the kill zone.
> 
> Fun times ;-)


No scoring, the winner the one to finish with all their arrows intact :wink:


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

steve morley said:


> No scoring, the winner the one to finish with all their arrows intact :wink:


We call it "Smoker round". You can only enter the round with on arrow. The one that scores all targets wins. First time a hot one a guy with a longbow beat me. He was able keep shooting his one arrow. Lol.
Dan


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

steve morley said:


> No scoring, the winner the one to finish with all their arrows intact :wink:


Exactly if your going to be hunting 15-20 you really shouldn't miss the kill zone at that range on a stationary target.


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

I, for one, really like this idea...


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## xringer-10 (Apr 15, 2007)

You can put me down for 15 to 20 yards depending on which bow (draw weight) I'm hunting with.


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## Aronnax (Nov 7, 2013)

This thread got me wondering about making a paper target-

The is a purely hypothetical example, actual values could be better determined by more experienced members of AT. Make a 6" circle, worth 10pts, a 8" circle outside that, worth maybe 8pts, and then everything outside the 8" circle could be -90pts. Or maybe just a single 8" circle worth 10pts...I dunno... Shoot 10 arrows and see if you can score higher than zero. You could try it at different ranges, 10 arrows at each distance, and find the distance at which you can no longer keep a greater than zero score. BOOM - effective hunting range...

BM


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

DDSHOOTER said:


> We call it "Smoker round". You can only enter the round with on arrow. The one that scores all targets wins. First time a hot one a guy with a longbow beat me. He was able keep shooting his one arrow. Lol.
> Dan


At the rancho Neblina shoot, they have a version of the 'smoker' round where you have shots set up with small targets, either with rocks as back stops, or obstacles between you and the target, trees, livestock panels, shooting through a culvert laying on your belly.

Rules are, you get one arrow. YOu can bring spare parts other than a shaft, and glue or whatever. It is a lot of fun.


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## Archer Mech (Sep 7, 2014)

That sounds like fun. I used to be a hunting archer when I was younger; now I just shoot for relaxation and the general well-being feeling it gives me. I like to start out at the longer ranges and watch my arrow arc into the target depending on the light conditions. A lot of times my first shot is my best shot and then I start scattering my arrows trying to repeat a shot like the first one. I like to start out at 50 yds and then move around to shorter and even longer ranges. I have some pics of my patterns, but the site doesn't seem to be working for me right now.


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## webster2 (Nov 24, 2013)

For serious hunting practice I agree with staying close, AND including shots set up like those you're likely to experience in real hunting situations (no warmup practice, treestand, sitting, kneeling, bending around a tree trunk, and one that many archers fail to even consider...a horizontal or vertical bow, whichever is the position that you DON'T normally shoot from). 

Also try varying your shot rhythm...if you typically hold for 2 or 3 seconds when you shoot, try holding for 8-10 seconds for those times the deer stops behind a tree or brush requires a pause. Or if you generally hold for awhile, try practicing some snap shots for those thick cover/very close range opportunities (snap shooting = shooting immediately when you hit anchor...NOT short drawing). 

Such varied practice might actually be the best means of establishing theoretical distance limits for hunting scenarios, for the simple reason that shot types that give you the most trouble are a good place to start for establishing your theoretical max limit. Example: if you have the most trouble shooting with a canted bow from one knee and can only manage reasonable accuracy out to say 12 yards or so, then there's your theoretical shot distance limit...until you improve your accuracy on that shot. Conservative you say? Yes, but it does two things: 1.) It'll make you work harder on your 'weak links', making you a more versatile/capable hunter, and 2.) It'll make your success rate (kills per shot taken) on game go up in a big way. Fewer shots taken yes, but your kill to miss ratio will improve by a truckload. And most of us don't hunt with a stickbow to maximize our kill rates anyway...that's why they invented rifles.

It would help if folks would briefly describe the kind of gear they use (bow type and weight, arrow weight, hunting vs. formal target shooting, etc.) for things like distance limits, and that's for both hunting shooting and pure target shooting, respectively. That can help avoid apples to oranges comparisons with regard to practice regimes and sensible distance discussions.

That 'steel targets to 20 yards' game does sound like fun. Now lets throw in the 'shoot from a bunch of different positions' practice approach. For that game I wonder if 20 yards might suddenly be stretching that 'comfortable distance limit' just a bit, lol.


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

BarneySlayer said:


> Anybody else walk around hunting with a range finder? If nothing else, good practice estimating distance...
> 
> It isn't like, because you're hunting, and you don't have pins, that you necessarily must not know beyond a best guess, or can't at least make better guesses.


 I never leave home without it. If I'm treed or sitting on ground level I'll range several landmarks around my spot. Even during spot and stalk it's a good idea to periodically test yourself since terrain, light, and what ever else can throw off distance estimating. For that matter, if you're not spotted, range the critter. For me confidence is much higher if the range is known.


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## lostarrow68 (Jun 29, 2004)

I shoot true instinctive so yardage is not important, I practice at 30 yards and can hit the kill on the deer target every time however I would never shoot over 25 at a deer.


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## cgs1967 (Sep 29, 2011)

Killed a buck at 56 yards two years ago. Not what I like to do but practice for it in case it happens.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

BarneySlayer said:


> Anybody else walk around hunting with a range finder? If nothing else, good practice estimating distance...
> 
> It isn't like, because you're hunting, and you don't have pins, that you necessarily must not know beyond a best guess, or can't at least make better guesses.


Always had a range finder with my wheel bow, and plan to use one with my longbow. I went stumping for the first time a few days ago and stumps I were thinking were 20 yards I now think were more like 40 plus yards judging by how short I was shooting them lol. Not used to judging the yardage on stumps.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

lostarrow68 said:


> I shoot true instinctive so yardage is not important, I practice at 30 yards and can hit the kill on the deer target every time however I would never shoot over 25 at a deer.


My philosiphy is if I cant hit the tight kill zone 12 out of 12 arrows in my backyard I definatly wont be able to hit the killzone on a live animal most times. I figure on live animal im only 60% of my backyard self.


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

webster2 said:


> For serious hunting practice I agree with staying close, AND including shots set up like those you're likely to experience in real hunting situations (no warmup practice, treestand, sitting, kneeling, bending around a tree trunk, and one that many archers fail to even consider...a horizontal or vertical bow, whichever is the position that you DON'T normally shoot from).
> 
> Also try varying your shot rhythm...if you typically hold for 2 or 3 seconds when you shoot, try holding for 8-10 seconds for those times the deer stops behind a tree or brush requires a pause. Or if you generally hold for awhile, try practicing some snap shots for those thick cover/very close range opportunities (snap shooting = shooting immediately when you hit anchor...NOT short drawing).
> 
> ...


I agree. I would also throw in practice in front of a bunch of people to simulate preasure. Also shoot in the rain, and in the cold, the snow, anything to simulate uncomfortable hunting conditions.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

Tradbow Guy said:


> I agree. I would also throw in practice in front of a bunch of people to simulate preasure. Also shoot in the rain, and in the cold, the snow, anything to simulate uncomfortable hunting conditions.


Wow, when put like that I want to take up hunting now 😜


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## jakeemt (Oct 25, 2012)

I guess for me that would be 40 yards. I can drop six arrows in a 9 inch circle at that distance. However, everything would have to be perfect, known distance, fairly open terrain, plenty of time, relaxed game ect and I doubt it will happen anytime soon lol! Reality is usually 30 yards and in.


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## Tradchef (Oct 30, 2004)

My comfort zone is 25 yards and under. I can shoot targets pretty good at 30 and 40 yards but with my longbow for hunting 25 is my max comfort zone this season and under is preferred. Most of my set ups are going to be in the 15 and under range.


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## webster2 (Nov 24, 2013)

Here's an interesting/informative thread about taking long shots on game...and the ethics question associated with it.

http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=41;t=000047


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Boils down to (in my book) whether you care if you wound an animal or not. 
I happen to care.
I've done a few impressive "hail Mary's" from across the yard and buried them in Bambi (the McKenzie look-alike), sure. But on a live animal? Nope. I'm not that good and I don't pretend to be.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

Captainkirk said:


> Boils down to (in my book) whether you care if you wound an animal or not.
> I happen to care.
> I've done a few impressive "hail Mary's" from across the yard and buried them in Bambi (the McKenzie look-alike), sure. But on a live animal? Nope. I'm not that good and I don't pretend to be.


Smart man. Responsible answer.


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## dipps (May 18, 2015)

most stand hunt in the woods situations, 20-25 yards..... stand hunt in a more open setting (e.g. edge of a field), 35 yards.


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## md126 (Sep 1, 2007)

Hunting isn't about shooting groups. It's about putting 1 arrow in the right spot at the right time... Period

Sometimes that range can vary depending on circumstances and personal ability and preference


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## Treeman732 (Nov 19, 2010)

I have shot hundreds of shots a week trying to get better with my longbow. At 15 yards I can kill a paper plate about 75-80% of the time, that's it. If I go back to 20 it's about 50% I am very discouraged. I have seen George Stout shoot on you tube and he's not exaggerating. I don't know how some of these good shots do it. Anyway I am giving myself a month to get better otherwise I will have no choice but to use my crossbow. 3 out of 4 at 15 yards is not good enough to hunt in my opinion.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Let me ad this to the mix.
Even if you can hit an animal at greater distances, does your rig still have enough energy to push an arrow through it?
I see how my arrows drop from 20 to 30 yards, and I am not sure I would risk it at 30 yards, even if I could be assured of a good hit. I am shooting 52#, but maybe the guys shooting bigger poundage feel confident to go longer. 
A one lung only shot makes for a long and miserable tracking job.
Likewise the arching trajectory of a longer shot is fine for open field target shooting, but a lot of branches are along that same trajectory in the woods.
For the target guys, penetration is not an issue, so I think we need to look at this from two different perspectives.
I am that guy that if not for bad luck, I would not have any luck, so I don't push it.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Treeman732 said:


> I have shot hundreds of shots a week trying to get better with my longbow. At 15 yards I can kill a paper plate about 75-80% of the time, that's it. If I go back to 20 it's about 50% I am very discouraged. I have seen George Stout shoot on you tube and he's not exaggerating. I don't know how some of these good shots do it. Anyway I am giving myself a month to get better otherwise I will have no choice but to use my crossbow. 3 out of 4 at 15 yards is not good enough to hunt in my opinion.


So hunt the thick nasty brush where the trail comes by at 10-12 yards. I think this is more exciting. You will learn a lot about deer by watching them up close, even if you don't get a shot.

Lots of deer are shot at 30 yards, but more are killed at 20 or less. I recall that there was survey done on bow kills and the average kill was at 18 yards.


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## Captainkirk (Sep 18, 2014)

Bill 2311 said:


> Lots of deer are shot at 30 yards, but more are killed at 20 or less. I recall that there was survey done on bow kills and the average kill was at 18 yards.


Yes...if...IF you can believe the people reporting the kills.
Nobody seems to want to confess to arrowing a deer at 10-15 yards...as if it makes them a lousy hunter. On the contrary, I believe if you can get that close and drive one through you are a better hunter than '40-yard Bob' who lucks out on the occasional Hail Mary because that's what he takes...it's as close as he can get. That doesn't make you a great hunter. Getting 15 yards from a deer does.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Bill 2311 said:


> Let me ad this to the mix.
> Even if you can hit an animal at greater distances, does your rig still have enough energy to push an arrow through it?
> I see how my arrows drop from 20 to 30 yards, and I am not sure I would risk it at 30 yards, even if I could be assured of a good hit. I am shooting 52#, but maybe the guys shooting bigger poundage feel confident to go longer.


The drop has more to do with gravity exponentially accelerating the arrow downward than loss of energy, but still, longer the arrow is in the air, the more time for something to move.

I sure would feel pretty iffy taking a shot at a live deer at 30 yards, assuming I'm not starving


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## ahunter55 (Aug 17, 2009)

2413gary. I'll be toting the 50# Longbow to the woods along with my Compound. I have one stand this year I will be confined to 20 yds or less in any direction as it is so thick all around..
We will see when & if that moment of truth happens. I am shooting very well at 25 & under but TWENTY or less will be the magic number.
The bullseye was 35 yds. & my best of 20 shots The Fox is 20 yds.. WOOD arrows. I won't even consider over 20 hunting with the Longbow but then, I don't consider over 30 yds. with my compound & I can pound He-l out of the bull up to & through 40 with it... I'll be shooting lots of both with b-heads for the Oct. opener..

Like I said b/4, I shoot lots of Field, Target & several 3-ds. I see lots of BIG GROUPS with those compounds & all the gadgets once it gets past 40 yds & I've shot with some excellent, dedicated Longbow & traditional shooters that don't consistently do what out internet shooters claim..


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## Treeman732 (Nov 19, 2010)

Bill 2311 said:


> So hunt the thick nasty brush where the trail comes by at 10-12 yards. I think this is more exciting. You will learn a lot about deer by watching them up close, even if you don't get a shot.
> 
> Lots of deer are shot at 30 yards, but more are killed at 20 or less. I recall that there was survey done on bow kills and the average kill was at 18 yards.


Here is what I did. I have a frankenbow I created out of a Bear compound riser and Bear Hunter TD (bolt on) limbs. Around 50# I put a single pin sight on it and not a single arrow missed a 6" circle, some shots were 25 yards. I love shooting the longbow but this bow set up is a killer.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Captainkirk said:


> I've done a few impressive "hail Mary's" from across the yard and buried them in Bambi (the McKenzie look-alike), sure. But on a live animal? Nope. I'm not that good and I don't pretend to be.


I got a first arrow 55 yard heart shot in a deer...

Foam deer...an
That was, of course, after I had a whole bunch if shots to figure out what my elevation needed to be, _and_ I happened to be on my game on _that_ shot...

It felt good, as opposed to _merely_ lucky, but I sure wouldn't take it short of starvation and the inability to get closer. Even if the shot was perfect, the likelihood of the deer staying still for the time required for the arrow to get there, it might work out, but I wouldn't bet my own hide on it.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

LOL. Barney. The last 3D practice I shot a 50 yard shot at a Elk and it landed between his front legs in the dirt. The whole time my son was saying higher, higher. I told you higher.
Dan


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

DDSHOOTER said:


> LOL. Barney. The last 3D practice I shot a 50 yard shot at a Elk and it landed between his front legs in the dirt. The whole time my son was saying higher, higher. I told you higher.
> Dan


Kids are wonderful...

Next time, you can tell him, "You know, I probably should have deferred to your experience, but you know how we are. Sometimes we just have to learn for ourselves."


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## TheRambler (Jan 29, 2014)

I can keep a pretty tight group out to 20-25 yards, usually a 3in group or less. 25-35 i am usually in the 5-6in group range, and beyond that i can almost always hit the target, but the groupings are scattered. Now, that all being said, i find that I do much better when there are no arrows in the target. Almost as if I can concentrate on the point i want to hit better. The first arrow at almost any range under 50 yards hits either dead on or very close to whatever i was aiming at, but after that first arrow, at greater ranges especially the grouping opens up substantially.

For hunting deer , i limit myself to 20 yards, but would take a 25yd shot if everything was perfect. I found myself getting much better when i started hunting rabbits, and also using a 4in ball target. I just toss the ball out into a field and make single shots at it, which is how i trained myself to hunt rabbits. Shooting a block target is one thing, but throwing that small target to varying distances really helped improve my accuracy.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

BarneySlayer said:


> Kids are wonderful...
> 
> Next time, you can tell him, "You know, I probably should have deferred to your experience, but you know how we are. Sometimes we just have to learn for ourselves."


He is! He's my Joel Turner. He has seen me go thru TP and back many, many times. So he keep me engage with the target. My spotter.
Dan


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Here is a ballistic calculator for arrows.
http://peteward.com/ballistic.calc.htm
As I understand it he is giving drop measured from level horizontal release. So if you have a 60" drop at 40 yards, then you have a midrange trajectory of 30" high in order to hit the target at that 40 yards, as you would be raising the bow to compensate for that drop.


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## Doofy_13 (Jan 2, 2012)

Bill 2311 said:


> So hunt the thick nasty brush where the trail comes by at 10-12 yards. I think this is more exciting. You will learn a lot about deer by watching them up close, even if you don't get a shot.
> 
> Lots of deer are shot at 30 yards, but more are killed at 20 or less. I recall that there was survey done on bow kills and the average kill was at 18 yards.


My average last year (8 deer) was 17 and that was with a compound. I wasnt even setting myself up for that close.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

TheRambler said:


> The first arrow at almost any range under 50 yards hits either dead on or very close to whatever i was aiming at, but after that first arrow, at greater ranges especially the grouping opens up substantially.


I have a suggestion...

Invisible arrows


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

102 yards on an elephant, 101 yards on Bigfoot, 88 yards on a bull elk, etc... oh and those are just during our Safari rounds....


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## catman-do (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm a honest 18-20 yard hunter. That's my range and they always get that close, in my tree stand or on the ground (I'm a tree man 90%). Ground hunting will get you busted with swirling winds, I know. They got a good nose and aint stupid..


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

as close as I can get...no...just a little closer. LOL!


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

rsarns said:


> 102 yards on an elephant, 101 yards on Bigfoot, 88 yards on a bull elk, etc... oh and those are just during our Safari rounds....


101 yards on BIgfoot rutro😱 BF's gonna need a faster bike.


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## flyfisher151 (Jan 4, 2008)

Anything less that 20 yards. My favorite is 15-17 yards.


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## weirdjack (Jan 15, 2014)

Maximum of 8.65 yards for mice in my basement.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Shooting distance it doesn't matter as long as I get to shoot


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