# That NY Times Article and feedback I've gotten



## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

ttt


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## jcsanders79-xt (Aug 28, 2007)

All of my three sisters have been a vegi at some point in their lives (one of them was even a vegan). They always claimed that it wasn't that they didn't like meat just the way it was "collected". Infact they are the first to beg for deer meat every year! Not all vegi's are card carrying PETA members. Most actually do eat meat, just not often or in front of certain people. Over the years they have started to eat meat more, it is very hard to maintain a proper diet without meat. It is VERY expensive and a major PITA, infact they started eating meat because of health issues.


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

I know a lot of vegetarians just don't like meat; generally have no problem with people who do eat meat, or at the very least are respectful of your choice to consume meat even if they don't like it.

I even had a foster child come hunting with me, even though she didn't eat meat much. It was a cool hunt; we saw a ton of deer that day, within about 20 yards. Unfortunately they were all does, and me with no doe tag for that area


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

PSEGuy said:


> I know a lot of vegetarians just don't like meat; generally have no problem with people who do eat meat, or at the very least are respectful of your choice to consume meat even if they don't like it.
> 
> I even had a foster child come hunting with me, even though she didn't eat meat much. It was a cool hunt; we saw a ton of deer that day, within about 20 yards. Unfortunately they were all does, and me with no doe tag for that area


Its the militant VEGANS, not Vegetarians, that are the ones that are a problem. Most vegetarians, IMHO, at least the ones that I know, do not use their diets as political symbols. Its their choice of what they eat. I'm very cool with that.

HOWEVER, the red flag went up because of what I explained yesterday. I hope someone can help me out with finding this tidbit I heard yesterday, and again this morning on our News Radio, WBEN. I've scoured a few sites for something, but have had no luck yet.

Anyhooooo.....

Apparently Ms Nancy Pelosi is "crusading to make the Capitol Green!" Including....... FOOD!!! That's right boys and girls, Nancy Pelosi is weilding her "green sceptre" transforming the House Cafeteria to offer "the most extensive green, organic foods". Such things include Cedar Plank Smoked Wild Salmon and some others - all organic, and most of it locally accessed...

Strange coinky-dink, wouldn't you say? 

Hmmmm......

Again, this is not an attack on what was stated in the article published in the NYTimes. But my spidey-senses are telling...... these folks (NY Times, Liberals, etc) who have demonstrated through years, indeed decades of ACTIONS couter-productive to conservation, are now suddenly "all aboard" because of the organic food angle? 

They're twying to twick me, but I will not be twicked. :wink:


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

You really need to keep this in the political forum. My patience is wearing thin...


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## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

And what is wrong with "green" organic food?

Organic agriculture has been shown to be more benficial for local ecosystems and the environment than traditional methods of farming?

Your telling he that her proposal to make the capital district a green zone upsets you? 



doctariAFC said:


> Anyhooooo.....
> 
> Apparently Ms Nancy Pelosi is "crusading to make the Capitol Green!" Including....... FOOD!!! That's right boys and girls, Nancy Pelosi is weilding her "green sceptre" transforming the House Cafeteria to offer "the most extensive green, organic foods". Such things include Cedar Plank Smoked Wild Salmon and some others - all organic, and most of it locally accessed...
> 
> ...


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

Let's keep this on track.


Campo, you're only lending credence to what he's saying by responding...


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## jkcerda (Jan 25, 2007)

i have 2 nephews who are vegans & support PETAukey:.

i dont have a problem with them supporting anything that they want, as long as they are educated about it, They first refused to see the PETA kills article, then they said it did not matter (after they did some research).

Now they wont speak with me because they don’t like the fact that I hunt,,,,

Now the ONLY one that supports my hunting, is my mom.

oh well , less x-mas presents.

wait, maybe I should give them a file to dull out those canines they have.


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

Ignorance is forgivable.

Chosen Ignorance is SCARY


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## markalbob (Aug 13, 2007)

PSEGuy said:


> I just wanted to share some feedback on that NYT article that was circulating yesterday. I reposted it on my Myspace (yes, I have one :embara and specifically asked my vegetarian friends to read it as well as everyone else.
> 
> Here is a response I got:
> 
> ...



The article was well-written and not a bunch of reactionary bashing. I think your response from her was a good example of why I dislike folks like Ted--it's easy to be obnoxious and rude in defending hunting, and you may feel much better going to bed that night congratulating yourself on a couple clever"zingers" and stoke your own ego, but look at how this girl responded. 

Now, how do you think she'd have responded to "yeah, kill 'em all and fire the grill up Baby!" or "well, what can a vegetarian know about animals anyway, besides that they want to spoon with one and cuddle it?".....


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## markalbob (Aug 13, 2007)

jkcerda said:


> i have 2 nephews who are vegans & support PETAukey:.
> 
> i dont have a problem with them supporting anything that they want, as long as they are educated about it, They first refused to see the PETA kills article, then they said it did not matter (after they did some research).
> 
> ...



That's sad.....choosing ideology over family? And umm, if you aren't even speaking, how likely is it they're gonna be able to "teach you the error of your ways"?

Close your hearts and minds and it'll all be allright, and the folsk who don;t know how wrong they are can go about their lives 'till they get what they've got coming while you sit in your own little happy place.........such a lovely way to do things, and just think, it works for PETA, religious nuts, pretty much any extremist......


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

Campo said:


> And what is wrong with "green" organic food?
> 
> Organic agriculture has been shown to be more benficial for local ecosystems and the environment than traditional methods of farming?
> 
> Your telling he that her proposal to make the capital district a green zone upsets you?


connect the dots..... that's all I can say.

And PSE..... Sorry to point out the obvious in terms of how our enemies work. These folks have demonstrated for decades where they stand when it comes to hunting, trapping, even enjoyment of the great outdoors. I can call up REAMS of history indicating the actions. I think a lot of people can.

I am not doing backflips over ONE "pro hunting" article published in the NYT, as some are appearing to do. Good points were made by the writer, no doubt. But these aren't some new OH SHAZAAM points. We have known about the natural benefits derived from hunting and consuming wild game. Ya know, I'll dare to say we've known about these bennies since, oh, we began hunting?? After all, hunting is the NATURAL process by which predator-prey relationships maintain balance. This relationship has allowed ALL species, both predator AND prey to survive for BILLIONS of YEARS. Do you honestly think eating wild game was somehow bad for you? But now its good because the NYT ran an article saying so?

The word SUCKER comes to mind.

Back to Campo. The only issue I would have with some elected individual making moves like this would be if no choices beyond the "green is best, so I will let you only choose green" food move. Sorry, but I believe it is every individual's choice to eat whatever it is they wish to eat. Its your life, and the only thing that would smack poorly with me is if Pelosi decided only green food will be served. That usurps Liberty. 

But the timing is suspicious. Its a trick. You are forewarned. Do with it what you wish.


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## markalbob (Aug 13, 2007)

doctariAFC said:


> The word SUCKER comes to mind.
> 
> 
> But the timing is suspicious. Its a trick. You are forewarned. Do with it what you wish.


Sucker like anyone on the right voting for Romney the "lifelong hunter"? Or anyone who voted for the current admin. because they were the advocates of States Rights (so long as the state doesn't have a Physician-assisted suicide, medical marijuana, gay marriage, or "tighter-than-EPA" law, anyway........):wink:

Nearly all politicians suck, and about the only thing separating most of them from a back-alley hooker is the heels and cheap lipstick--it's not a "democrat thing".




Without going into politics enough to get the thread sent to campfire, I'd think even if cautiously optimistic at best, that's better than nothing at all--perhaps hunting has a shot of becoming a bit more mainstream, and while I also doubt it, I'm not gonna pre-emptively dump on it.........


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

doctariAFC said:


> But the timing is suspicious. Its a trick. You are forewarned. Do with it what you wish.


I'm surprised you're online at all...
What with the government tracking your every move and whatnot.



Shouldn't you be stockpiling your bunker or something?

You've made your point ... NUMEROUS TIMES... now chill out.


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## mn5503 (Feb 21, 2006)

You guys actually know veggy people


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

markalbob said:


> That's sad.....choosing ideology over family? And umm, if you aren't even speaking, how likely is it they're gonna be able to "teach you the error of your ways"?
> 
> Close your hearts and minds and it'll all be allright, and the folsk who don;t know how wrong they are can go about their lives 'till they get what they've got coming while you sit in your own little happy place.........such a lovely way to do things, and just think, it works for PETA, religious nuts, pretty much any extremist......


I know. It is sad. Trouble is, these pukes have an audience in Washington, and in many State Houses to boot. I'll point to NYS as a prime PETArd and HSUSite and ASPCAlien stomping ground; especially since we annoitned a new Governor, and he appointed an anti to oversee hunting, fishing and trapping in NYS.

The target is trapping. The strategy is divide and conquor. Trapping isn't gigantic, but it does contribute to the overall economics of outdoors recreation and conservation, and contributes a pretty good chunk of change. The anti's want to abolish all trapping. Heck, they even get upset if you use a lethal mouse trap! They paint pictures so inaccurate to stir emotions against trapping it is laughable, but it is effective. Like pictures of the steel jaw, toothed bear trap whenever trapping is mentioned. You know, the traps that have been illegal to use for well over 50 years?

One of the angles to eliminate trapping is a wanton waste law. I was speaking with a few friends on this subject last night, too. These were not hunters, but they do fish. After painting wild game in the light the NYT writer did, they agreed and yes yeah, that's right! Then one guy said maybe there should be a law to REQUIRE you to eat what you kill!!! I said, that makes sense, right? He said, ehck yeah, that way we wouldn't waste the animal. I smiled, and then asked him what about the coyote hunters? Will they have to eat the coyote? How about muskrat and mink trappers, same Q?

His reply, oh, well, that wouldn't be good.

But I can guarantee someone in the halls of Washington will propose just this kind of law. It won't be proposed until after 2008 elections, but, if legislative and executive branches of government are under Dem control, it will come up lickidy split, have the votes, get passed, and then good-bye trappers.

Amazing how food can eliminate liberty. Oh, and this isn't new, either. This has been tried and tried many, many times in the past.


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## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

Just outta curiosity, do you enjoy playing the victim constantly?



doctariAFC said:


> connect the dots..... that's all I can say.
> And PSE..... Sorry to point out the obvious in terms of how our enemies work.


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## markalbob (Aug 13, 2007)

mn5503 said:


> You guys actually know veggy people


lmao.....they're probably a bit like gay people--if you say you don't know one, either you know very few people, or just don't know some of them as well as you assume


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

PSEGuy said:


> I'm surprised you're online at all...
> What with the government tracking your every move and whatnot.
> 
> 
> ...


What's wrong? Have I deflated your beliefs??

Why attempt to silence the message? Now I'm getting curious.


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## doctariAFC (Aug 25, 2005)

Campo said:


> Just outta curiosity, do you enjoy playing the victim constantly?


Ummmmm..... NO, but I do seem to find it becoming increasingly necessary to demonstrate how to AVOID becoming a willing victim.

Its called thinking.... Try it. You may enjoy it.


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

doctariAFC said:


> What's wrong? Have I deflated your beliefs??
> 
> Why attempt to silence the message? Now I'm getting curious.



My beliefs are firm.

My issue is that you are subverting the point of this thread, and I find it offensive. Now stop.


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## Campo (Sep 20, 2006)

Because 99.9% of what you post has absolutely nothing to do with bowhunting. 

I just get sick and tired of reading your (i.e.) legislation rants in the bowhunting section. (Ps. I am guilty of posting political crapola in the bowhunting section too, but, 90% of the time it is in response to others) If you are going to post "merd", then learn where to post "merd", that way we dont have to read political stuff if we dont want to.

You just like having a venue to spew your political banter into the masses hoping someone will listen.

Ever notice that 90% of your posts are moved to the legislation forum? Haven't you gotten the hint that this forum isnt the place to post this stuff? Obviously not. Keep breaking the rules in an attempt to gain recognition, I am through with you and your posts.




doctariAFC said:


> What's wrong? Have I deflated your beliefs??
> 
> Why attempt to silence the message? Now I'm getting curious.


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## archer1983 (Dec 24, 2006)

Campo said:


> Just outta curiosity, do you enjoy playing the victim constantly?


Campo, I have wanted to ask this for a long time...

are you REALLY a tree hugger? 


(trust me, it will relate to the topic)


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## Hickory Creek Stalker (Aug 16, 2004)

doctariAFC said:


> What's wrong? Have I deflated your beliefs??
> 
> Why attempt to silence the message? Now I'm getting curious.


No I would say he is just annoyed how you hijack any thread you can into your politcal diiscussions.

I am annoyed right now (even though I agree with most of what you post)
Quit being drama queen.


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## markalbob (Aug 13, 2007)

[email protected]#it, they moved this too now.....it had nothing to do with legislation, as none was pending, it was a simple commentary about an article in the paper.

I don't want to get banned, but IMHO things are getting WAY too move-happy here......


the hunting forum is where most viewers are. This WAS a hunting thread. I know we're not supposed to publicly question a mod, but I just don;t feel this is a "non-hunting" thread or anything with pending legislation


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

And that's why this thread just got moved.

I was hoping to keep it in the Bowhunting section where it would be seen by more AT'ers, but since someone decided to derail it, I had it moved. 

Thanks Doctari, way to go... 

Why don't you just stay in the Legislation section where your rants belong?




Campo said:


> Because 99.9% of what you post has absolutely nothing to do with bowhunting.
> 
> I just get sick and tired of reading your (i.e.) legislation rants in the bowhunting section. (Ps. I am guilty of posting political crapola in the bowhunting section too, but, 90% of the time it is in response to others) If you are going to post "merd", then learn where to post "merd", that way we dont have to read political stuff if we dont want to.
> 
> ...


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## Hickory Creek Stalker (Aug 16, 2004)

ukey:I blame doctari for tainting this thread.
And causing me to post in the politic forum ukey:


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## Scotty G (Sep 27, 2007)

Play nice children. PSE.......where did your "yea, I'm oppionated" thing go??? Kind of miss it. and what's with the new avatar??? I hate politicians, why portray yourself as such??? 

I'd vote for you over Busch though!!!!


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

markalbob said:


> [email protected]#it, they moved this too now.....it had nothing to do with legislation, as none was pending, it was a simple commentary about an article in the paper.
> 
> I don't want to get banned, but IMHO things are getting WAY too move-happy here......
> 
> ...


I had it moved... see above post. I don't think this is the right place, but I'd rather have it moved than give someone here the opportunity to preach his version of Liberal hatred and wacky conspiracy theories.


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## Illustrator (Aug 9, 2007)

Scotty G said:


> Play nice children. PSE.......where did your "yea, I'm oppionated" thing go??? Kind of miss it. and what's with the new avatar??? I hate politicians, why portray yourself as such???
> 
> I'd vote for you over Busch though!!!!


It's a joke, Scotty.... 
ties in with the Obsessed issue, but I won't get into that 


I'll be back to my old self eventually...


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## markalbob (Aug 13, 2007)

PSEGuy said:


> I had it moved... see above post. I don't think this is the right place, but I'd rather have it moved than give someone here the opportunity to preach his version of Liberal hatred and wacky conspiracy theories.


got it....


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## Yellowfin (Mar 6, 2007)

My venison is free range and 100% organic. Darn tasty too!


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## stevegabriel (Apr 18, 2007)

Yellowfin said:


> My venison is free range and 100% organic.


That was the point of the NY Times article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/opinion/14rinella.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Hunters need to defend their rights. The problem is they are a minority of the population. Articles like this help get non-hunters who are ambivalent to hunting to see hunting as a positive activity, especially when they realize their local community may be spending $500 per deer for "population control"
when hunting activity can alleviate the issue at lower cost to the taxpayer and provide a recreational resource.
Getting these middle-of-the roaders on the side of the hunting community is critical to preserving the sport.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

stevegabriel said:


> That was the point of the NY Times article.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/opinion/14rinella.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
> 
> Hunters need to defend their rights. The problem is they are a minority of the population. .


Vegans are a minority of the Population, HSUS is a minority of the population, PETA is a minority of the population, Greens are a minority of the population, but they are being taught by liberal teachers in our classrooms to accept all that is non-violent and "green". Protect the chilluns from aggressive behavior... protect them from ...

Hunters need to stand up and promote their way of life as being wholesome, traditional (don't rely on this too much), and if gays can have a lifestyle, so to can hunters, we have "rights" too you know... :embara:

So don't be militant, but challenge these episodes at every turn.... with reason, sincerity and especially point out how absurd their assertions are, whether from lead, from pain, whatever, man is the most humane predator.. and that is what we are.... we don't want that bred out of us

Aloha...


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## stevegabriel (Apr 18, 2007)

rattus58 said:


> So don't be militant, but challenge these episodes at every turn...


Exactly. The important thing is to get the majority of the non-hunting voting public on the side of the sportsmen.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

stevegabriel said:


> Exactly. The important thing is to get the majority of the non-hunting voting public on the side of the sportsmen.


That would be the Ideal..... 

Aloha...  :beer:


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