# Hoyt Protec Shooting Vid



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Let me preface this by first saying that I think the new JBK BCY "X" string and cables I just put on are getting used to this bow quicker than I am as?...

I'm finding it very difficult...without sights....to slow down and stop shooting this compound like I do my stickbows....as I haven't shot a wheelie in a few years and I'm not a gapper so...my aiming system is (and has been for the past long while)....

when it feels right and looks right?...it's gone! :laugh:

Also...between pressing and re-adjusting cables tweaking everything in just so...including installing a set of string leeches, nocking points and rough tuning things back in including re-installing the stab and limb savers?...I shot the bow off and on all afternoon....so fatigue may be playing a bit of a role here...and not so much physical as mental...but FWIW?...here ya go...






But I guess the important part is I'm having fun tinkering with and getting re-used to a wheelbow again and apparently?...it's gonna take awhile. :laugh:

Thanks for watching and L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Nice Jinx. Nice.

What rest is that? It looks like what I have been using for a while. Mine is the Tiger Tuff Delux Starr. I do still have a Bowdoodle to play with. Hopefully, now that season is over, I can give it a whirl.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

mitchell said:


> Nice Jinx. Nice.
> 
> What rest is that? It looks like what I have been using for a while. Mine is the Tiger Tuff Delux Starr. I do still have a Bowdoodle to play with. Hopefully, now that season is over, I can give it a whirl.


Thanks Mitchell and ya know?..I'm really not sure who made that rest...I'm wanting to say AAE but I know this...it's my all time favorite finger-shooting rest...due to it's tune-ability...as those knurled brass knobs micro-adjust windage and elevation sans having to move nocking points...bought it back in 1991...










and I used to shoot 2312's off my 78# Jennings Carbon Extreme XLR at 308fps...back in '91...and it's amazing how between tech advancements in wheelbows and the advent of CF shafting probably has this Hoyt Protec doing very close to that speed at 50#s but?..,to facilitate use of smaller diameter CF shafting on this rest?...I had to bead form some center-line ridges on the sheet metal support fingers to retain their strength so that I could widdle down the sides to create fletching clearance for the smaller O.D. CF shafting...










and this is the rest that replaced this one...and believe it or not?...I used to finger shoot my '85 target model PSE Magna-Flight with this rest....a Barner Inertia Rest...from Timeless Archery (guess they got the name right! LOL!) and I used to finger shoot anywhere's between a 292-296 with this rest on a 300 indoor round...and once shot a 298 with it during practice...










But all that was in another lifetime long ago...but rest assured I've been through a veritable plethora of rests...cavalier super-flytes used to be a fav of mine for a long time until one broke and cost me a match...an before that?...enough high-end plunger buttons to fill an egg carton...with numerous styles of flippers...you know the drill! :laugh:

Thanks again and L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Bill the bow looks and sounds great 

When you shot fingers compound before did you shoot split or 3 fingers under like now 

Thanks for the video


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Bill the bow looks and sounds great
> 
> When you shot fingers compound before did you shoot split or 3 fingers under like now
> 
> Thanks for the video


Thanks Joe and I used to shoot split...exclusively and only...but that was back when I had these things called sights and a peep...you can tell...can't you?...what was the give-away if you don't mind me asking...the string arm elbow?


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

No giveaway 

The bow offers great string angles 










You did really well on this setup it looks sweet


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> No giveaway
> 
> The bow offers great string angles
> 
> You did really well on this setup it looks sweet


Thanks Joe...appreciate it as I did have fun re-rigging and dialing things in bow wise this weekend and I'm really digging how it turned out...right down to that sweet low freq, low decible thump of the shot...now I just need to get the fine tuning up to snuff arrow wise...but the biggy?...is getting my head wrapped around shooting a non-sighted compound...never experienced this before and it's a trip...actually?...I'm still feeling my way through it and it's going to take some getting used and truth be known?...I'm dying to just pop a peep in this thing and bolt on some pins but...I know where that'll lead! :laugh:

Thanks again, Bill. :cool2:


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Bill,

That was the most relaxed I've ever seen you shoot. You just looked really at peace, it was nice to see.

I had a rest just like that on my Protec man it was easy to tune. None of this moving nocking points all over the place malarky.

Are those Cam & 1/2? They look to have a much firmer wall then the wheels on my Protec. Right now it looks like you are relaxing your fingers and once the cams roll out of the valley the string is gone. Seems to be a really successful technique for some archers if you can maintain it consistently. Pulling your fingers off the back of the wall might create a follow-through more consistent with how you shoot your stick bows, but nothing says you have to shoot them all the same.
The bow sounds pretty quick, I'm curious as to how fast it's able to drive those fairly heavy arrows.

-Grant

P.S. I just bought some wheels, with a 4x scope and a hinge. It'll either kick my TP in the butt or just fuel the fire, we'll see.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> Bill,
> 
> That was the most relaxed I've ever seen you shoot. You just looked really at peace, it was nice to see.
> 
> ...


Thanks grant and I feel pretty much at peace with this bow in a Goldylocks sorta way...and yes...when I shot competitively I was trained by my mentor to static shoot out of the valley...he didn't want me shooting off the wall as he said that once I hit the wall?...that I was inducing some sorta crap where yanking it against the wall was adding extra pounds then the valley became the limp spot where things could go awry...cause now instead of the arrow going through a clean power-stroke?...it was "Jump/Slack/Pressure"...instead of a clean smooth increase of acceleration...and if I felt hard wall?...he wanted me to let down and try again...once he even lengthened my bows draw length cause he felt my form was growing as I was running into the wall too often...but that was decades ago and to answer your question?...they are "Cam & 1/2"....and yes....the valley?...ain't a whole lot bigger than what was on my PSE Omen...which was ridiculously small...creep a 1/16th and my shoulder was getting ripped out of socket...but that bow I did shoot off the wall...but "just touching" the wall...with a release...didn't have a whole lotta choice with that bow! :laugh:

A hinge release with TP hugh?...got a good dentist?...on call? :laugh:

I mastered a stanislousy decades back just to see if I could...and after I did?...I threw that thing into the woods as far as I could so it would never again hurt anyone else! :laugh:

What kind of wheels did you get man?...sump'in nice I bet.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

I would like to talk more about shooting off the wall or the valley 

On one of my setups I have it adjusted that as soon as I achieve letoff I have a slight valley and I'm hitting the wall at full draw 










On the other I have the stops set out further and I am shooting off the valley so to speak even thou I can hit the wall if I want 










I am curious which is the preferred method by most and why 

Notice the string angles 

I am experiencing no finger pinch even thou the limbs collapse

if you follow the string angle out you have a pretty decent angle but nothing like your Hoyt which I consider the ultimate for string angle


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Looks like a golden key Superstar rest, also one of my fav's.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Joe...if you're not feeling pinch at those angles?...I would think it may be due to a very high let-off value...where like 80% (or greater) of the poundage/energy is being transferred off the string and stored into the cables...making the string feel supple (pinch wise) due to a very low hold weight...and if this is true?....I would also guess that you shoot the one that shoots off the wall with a greater consistency of accuracy than the one you shoot out of the valley...reason being because if you're shooting a real low hold weight out of the valley?...it's dang difficult to get a consistently clean release where the one your shooting off the wall is your fingers pulling against a dead stop....thereby acting as though it's increasing the strings tension against your fingers but then?...pinch would increase as well...I would think.

Dunno if that helps but it's all I have at the moment. Nice bows BTW. L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

JINKSTER said:


> Thanks grant and I feel pretty much at peace with this bow in a Goldylocks sorta way...and yes...when I shot competitively I was trained by my mentor to static shoot out of the valley...he didn't want me shooting off the wall as he said that once I hit the wall?...that I was inducing some sorta crap where yanking it against the wall was adding extra pounds then the valley became the limp spot where things could go awry...cause now instead of the arrow going through a clean power-stroke?...it was "Jump/Slack/Pressure"...instead of a clean smooth increase of acceleration...and if I felt hard wall?...he wanted me to let down and try again...once he even lengthened my bows draw length cause he felt my form was growing as I was running into the wall too often...but that was decades ago and to answer your question?...they are "Cam & 1/2"....and yes....the valley?...ain't a whole lot bigger than what was on my PSE Omen...which was ridiculously small...creep a 1/16th and my shoulder was getting ripped out of socket...but that bow I did shoot off the wall...but "just touching" the wall...with a release...didn't have a whole lotta choice with that bow! :laugh:
> 
> A hinge release with TP hugh?...got a good dentist?...on call? :laugh:
> 
> ...


I think that with the smooth cam & 1/2 there won't be anything jumpy about shooting off the wall, they are probably miles smoother than the last finger bow you had. I generally shot my Protec out of the middle of the valley but with a dynamic follow-through, if I was going to shoot it really competitively I would have added a clicker because that valley felt about 3/4" long. Seems like all the cool kids in the wheelbow world like a fairly short DL to get it floating nice and tight.
Maybe dropping the DL down 1/4" and trying it off the wall would feel like shooting a stringbow, with a purpose! Not like you are going to have peep rotation 

My TP isn't about getting to full draw, I can do that with a 70# selfbow if I want. It's about mental tension holding on the spot. I figure my rotational draw will keep that hinge well away from my face when we enter the "danger zone". Plus I'm going to spend a good amount of time playing with it on a stringbow to start with. The one I got is designed to be drawn with the pinky behind it as a safety and I'm going to set it real cold to start with.
Besides, I'm still on Military dental for the next 6 months and I could do with getting a few straightened.

Well my Pabst Blue Ribbon budget has finally caught-up with my champagne tastes, but as you know I've got the need for speed:
I got a good deal on a 2009 Ultra-Elite with XT2000 limbs and 28.5" Spirals. It should be just long enough to shoot with fingers if I get the itch, but for now it's all freestyle.

-Grant


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

JINKSTER said:


> Joe...if you're not feeling pinch at those angles?...I would think it may be due to a very high let-off value...where like 80% (or greater) of the poundage/energy is being transferred off the string and stored into the cables...making the string feel supple (pinch wise) due to a very low hold weight...and if this is true?....I would also guess that you shoot the one that shoots off the wall with a greater consistency of accuracy than the one you shoot out of the valley...reason being because if you're shooting a real low hold weight out of the valley?...it's dang difficult to get a consistently clean release where the one your shooting off the wall is your fingers pulling against a dead stop....thereby acting as though it's increasing the strings tension against your fingers but then?...pinch would increase as well...I would think.
> 
> Dunno if that helps but it's all I have at the moment. Nice bows BTW. L8R, Bill. :cool2:


Bill I am shooting 65 pounds with a 60 to 65 % letoff


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

J:

Your bow hand looks more relaxed on the bow with the shorter DL. The other one it looks like it's trying to force a high-wrist position, maybe to get the bow further back into the valley. Have you ever tried going say 1/2" shorter on the DL then in picture #1? How did it hold for you?

It seems like the rage for Freestylers is to set the DL short enough that the bow is almost too twitchy and then get everything under control with stabilization. I'm just hoping I didn't make a mistake getting the DL specific Spirals in 28.5". I know when I shot a wrist strap release my bows were 29" and that was the same for the Protec.

-Grant


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Grant 

They both feel very similar in the bow hand 

I see what you mean about going shorter but for so many years I have worked to get my power stroke on my recurves up I am still drawing these cam lever bows the same draw length as my recurves


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## Arron (Nov 18, 2012)

Nice shooting Bill. I still have been looking in the classifieds  a couple questions for you.
If I remember right yours is a 50-60# bow. Both my one string bows are between 30-35#. I am thinking 40-50# max for wheels for a 60-100 arrow session. Correct assumption?
With a fingers compound bow is there less hand shock then a recurve? I have my recurve set pretty nice for shooting but I am thinking on selling my Omega. Just to much hand shock for my elbows. Love it but after 50 shots I am done.
Finding it hard to test shoot some longer ATA compounds, just to much draw weight at 60-70#'s.
Anyway nice shooting, nice video as always.


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## mitchell (Mar 5, 2005)

Fun read.

That rest design, with the launcher arms/blades/whatever they are called, is the most forgiving I have used personally. I always to my first set up and bare shaft tuning with that rest, and then go from there. I have actually hunted with mine as well.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

rsarns said:


> Looks like a golden key Superstar rest, also one of my fav's.


Ren...you jarred my memory and I believe you are exactly right...for some reason I want to add "Futura"...as in "Golden Key Futura SuperStar" rest.



Arron said:


> Nice shooting Bill. I still have been looking in the classifieds  a couple questions for you.
> If I remember right yours is a 50-60# bow. Both my one string bows are between 30-35#. I am thinking 40-50# max for wheels for a 60-100 arrow session. Correct assumption?
> With a fingers compound bow is there less hand shock then a recurve? I have my recurve set pretty nice for shooting but I am thinking on selling my Omega. Just to much hand shock for my elbows. Love it but after 50 shots I am done.
> Finding it hard to test shoot some longer ATA compounds, just to much draw weight at 60-70#'s.
> Anyway nice shooting, nice video as always.


Thanks Arron and yes...it appears we are both in the same boat poundage wise as I have this protect set-up at it's absolute min weight of 50#'s...It's a 50-60 and I wish it were a 40-50...my first session with this bow I shot about 80-100 arrows with it (throughout the day off and on) set at approx. 54#'s and even though I didn't feel it happening that day?...the next two days I paid for it and didn't dare pick up any bow for about 3 days...I knew then that this bow would be relegated to 3D/Hunting but also thought that maybe it's just because I haven't shot a wheelie in a couple years and that maybe I need to slowly re-build those muscles and I'm not certain if It's different muscles or just the same muscles getting strained in a different place but...I only shot about 40-50 arrows yesterday and at 50#s and again?...I'm feeling it today but it was also only my 2nd serious session with the bow but my bow arm elbow has been on fire all day...again...feels like a nerve is getting compression damage or something...even at just 50#s and 1/2 the shots taken...getting old with diabetes is a biotch but I guess it beats the alternative. :laugh:

Still...never thought I'd see the day that a 50# wheelie would kick my azz but...it did...again. 

But I'm going to still keep tugging and plugging with it but if things don't start getting better in about a dozen sessions?...I may hafta off the bow or seek out lighter 3000XT Limbs for it.



mitchell said:


> Fun read.
> 
> That rest design, with the launcher arms/blades/whatever they are called, is the most forgiving I have used personally. I always to my first set up and bare shaft tuning with that rest, and then go from there. I have actually hunted with mine as well.


Yep...loved the shooting star for hunting because all I had to do was put some black heat shrink on the metal fingers (to silence the draw of the arrow) then just micro adjust a hair down and in and I was good to go! 

L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Yep they were called future in the name also. I still have a few of hose, a couple of the Star Hunters and Star Shooters also. If I see them on Ebay I grab them. Still got some that are new in the box.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

There is a lot of good stuff Jinks shoot the cam&1/2 off the wall that's where it shines when I first started shooting this cam like you I tried to shoot it close to the wall. If you collapse that tad bit Bam it yanks it right away. Grant is right about shorting your draw 1/4" this way you are always in the back. When I relax I would get just out left or right thinking nothing is wrong. There was something wrong inconsistency so stay in the back when it gets a little itchey just load your fingers and groups get tighter.

One thing about the cam&1/2 is it need to be tuned so both cams hit the stop at the same time. The timing marks will be close but could still be a twist or two out. Problem is unless you have a hootershooter you need some one to check the timing for you. Then have them pull it so you can see it also. It might be perfect but two twist makes a big difference in how forgiving it shoots. I can post pics if needed
Gary


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

rsarns said:


> Yep they were called future in the name also. I still have a few of hose, a couple of the Star Hunters and Star Shooters also. If I see them on Ebay I grab them. Still got some that are new in the box.


Great stuff Ren! :thumbs_up

And now I know who to PM if mine ever breaks! :laugh: 



2413gary said:


> There is a lot of good stuff Jinks shoot the cam&1/2 off the wall that's where it shines when I first started shooting this cam like you I tried to shoot it close to the wall. If you collapse that tad bit Bam it yanks it right away. Grant is right about shorting your draw 1/4" this way you are always in the back. When I relax I would get just out left or right thinking nothing is wrong. There was something wrong inconsistency so stay in the back when it gets a little itchey just load your fingers and groups get tighter.
> 
> One thing about the cam&1/2 is it need to be tuned so both cams hit the stop at the same time. The timing marks will be close but could still be a twist or two out. Problem is unless you have a hootershooter you need some one to check the timing for you. Then have them pull it so you can see it also. It might be perfect but two twist makes a big difference in how forgiving it shoots. I can post pics if needed
> Gary


Thanks Gary...and now I understand what y'all are saying...where if you keep it tensioned against the wall it keeps the well-timed wheels locked and yes...while the cam & 1/2 feel very smooth?...the valley is "twitchy small"...so I can see where shortening the draw would take the anxiety out of the equation and pretty much guarantee a more consistent shot response from the bow.

My trad shooting bud A.T. member fatzboys loaned me this press I'm using...and along with it?...a ratchet draw-board....I've checked timing (at full draw) by standing sideways to our bedroom mirror but that's kind of a hinky way of going about it so...I guess after I re-press the bow and spin those mods for a 1/4" shorter draw I'll go ahead and board it to make sure but at the moment?...I'm a little depressed thinking these limbs might be too much bow for my old bones...the muscles there...that's no problem...but my bow arm elbow is still on fire...I can deal with sore and even expect it...but joint damage is a different ball game...sure wish I could find some 40-50# XT3000's.

Thanks again Folks and L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## Arron (Nov 18, 2012)

Never hurts to put out a request on the classifieds to see if anyone has a set of 40-50 ponders they want to off load.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Need to check the deflection number of the limbs probably have to take the bow apart. No big deal for a techy like you. I may have limbs
Gary


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

2413gary said:


> Need to check the deflection number of the limbs probably have to take the bow apart. No big deal for a techy like you. I may have limbs
> Gary


OMG #1: REALLY!...THAD BE GREAT GARY!  :thumbs_up

OMG #2: REALLY!...the limb deflection numbers are on the only part of the limbs I can't see through the pockets?...the limb bases?

I just broke out my 3.0 readers and I can see all sorts of cable/string specs, part#s, patent numbers but...no deflection numbers...and the only part of the limbs I can't see are the bases...uhg...press time again?

But I guess it's for a worth while cause....the health of my bone joints...and I very much appreciate your most gracious offer to help me out here cause I do love everything about the bow but what seems more weight than my bones can tolerate a steady diet of.

I'll tear this baby apart sometime this week and see if I can find those deflection #'s....with the understanding that you "may" have limbs.

Thanks Mr. McCain!


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

It should be on the butt of the limb. I hope I have them but even if I don't this will tell what to look for


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

If the cams are B-2 then you should have 78 deflection according to this:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=278541

If that helps.

-Grant


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

not to hijack the thread but I was wondering how much of a difference there was in the string angle between the Oneida and the Hoyt so I made a couple of assumptions that the 2 archers have similar draw lengths and superimposed the two photos. I highlighted the two different strings so it was easier to see, so now you can see the angle differences between the strings. Enjoy!









By the way the software I used was GIMP. It's a Photoshop like application that is completely free. It's an open source project that is available in a windows installer download at GIMP.org.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Bill,

I just had another look at your video. I notice that you draw with a low wrist position and then move the wrist upwards when you get to anchor. I know that for me I can't shoot a bow with a high wrist position when the grip is low. I also can't shoot as much mass with a high wrist as I can with a low. If you get a chance to shorten the DL up a bit perhaps that will let you shoot it more heel down and take some tension out of the bow arm.

-Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> Bill,
> 
> I just had another look at your video. I notice that you draw with a low wrist position and then move the wrist upwards when you get to anchor. I know that for me I can't shoot a bow with a high wrist position when the grip is low. I also can't shoot as much mass with a high wrist as I can with a low. If you get a chance to shorten the DL up a bit perhaps that will let you shoot it more heel down and take some tension out of the bow arm.
> 
> -Grant


Thanks Grant and yes...I spun the mods down to the shortest DL position yesterday...which wasn't much as they only had one position shorter to go but...I guess I'll wind her up tight via manipulating the string/cables from there...besides...with no string-stops on this bow a lil extra static string tension never hurt. 

and nice catch...I have a habit of doing that with wheelies...back in the day I was always looking for as much DL as I could get out of my body for as much arrow speed as I could get out of the bow...so I wound up shooting compounds high wristed....doing just what you described...drawing low wristed and then popping it up high....I guess old habits die hard.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

b0w_bender said:


> not to hijack the thread but I was wondering how much of a difference there was in the string angle between the Oneida and the Hoyt so I made a couple of assumptions that the 2 archers have similar draw lengths and superimposed the two photos. I highlighted the two different strings so it was easier to see, so now you can see the angle differences between the strings. Enjoy!
> 
> View attachment 1867257
> 
> ...


That is very cool 

Thank you 

It's not as much as I would have thought


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Btw Bill I will cherish our morphed pic


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## Jesse Schultz (Sep 11, 2013)

When I first looked at that rest. I thought it was a Boodoodle Timberdoodle ll. I have a question is the bow real loud? Or was that the arrow hitting the target?
How long has it been since you shot a compound? 
How did you like it?


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

JParanee said:


> Btw Bill I will cherish our morphed pic


Cool Joe!...I was laughing when I saw it thinking...

"Cool...Joe and I finally got to shoot together!" :laugh:


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Jesse Schultz said:


> When I first looked at that rest. I thought it was a Boodoodle Timberdoodle ll. I have a question is the bow real loud? Or was that the arrow hitting the target?


That was the arrow striking the target...the bow is extremely quiet.



Jesse Schultz said:


> How long has it been since you shot a compound?


Last time I shot a compound was Oct. 2011...so it's been a little over 2 years....but the compound I was shooting then was a PSE Omen with a mech. release (not fingers)...last time I shot a compound w/ fingers was 1994. 



Jesse Schultz said:


> How did you like it?


Actually?...this was the first time I shot this particular combo of a compound with fingers..."but sans sights"...and I thought it was real cool...as to me?...it was like shooting a 300fps stick bow with the advantages of let-off and a draw stop! :laugh:

Then again?...I love shooting any and all bows...but when a sight goes on the riser and a trigger goes on the string?...

I quickly grow bored.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

String angles with a wheel bow. Earlier this year I purchased a good hanging scale with intent of plotting DFC's on several ILF limbs. As a hanging bracket came with the scale for slat wall an idea come to mind using the spare part to mimic the draw hand, as it was the same width as three fingers a piece of Cherry was shaped to the radius of my draw fingers.

As only a certain amount of string can roll off the cams my 46"ATA Redmans draw two pounds heavier with the scale attachment than the hook does. Shorter bows should in theory be effected more. Same with draw length measurements the width of draw hand shortens draw length over a hook or release.

Just something to ponder


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## Arron (Nov 18, 2012)

JParanee said:


> No giveaway
> 
> The bow offers great string angles
> 
> ...


That's a pretty good picture on your form. Pretty much a straight line from you elbow to arrow and your front shoulder pushed down. Very nice!!


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> Bill,
> 
> I just had another look at your video. I notice that you draw with a low wrist position and then move the wrist upwards when you get to anchor. I know that for me I can't shoot a bow with a high wrist position when the grip is low. I also can't shoot as much mass with a high wrist as I can with a low. If you get a chance to shorten the DL up a bit perhaps that will let you shoot it more heel down and take some tension out of the bow arm.
> 
> -Grant


Grant...you and Gary were spot-on regarding shortening the draw...I had (1) position shorter to go (1/4") and went there as I just got around to lacing Hades back up and taking her off the press tonight and wow...talk about spot on hard wall right at my draw?...and on the first tug it felt exactly like my string bow that was custom adjusted to..."my proper form draw/anchor"...by Mr. Jenkins himself...haven't even shot it yet and love the move already so...great catch...good eyes and thank you both! :thumbs_up

L8R, Bill. :cool2:


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Bill,

I'm glad this blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then. Have you had a chance to shoot it? I'm hoping that change will let you relax your bow arm just a bit and reduce the discomfort.
I am still fiddling with my UE. I don't have a press and I hate to take-up a ton of time at the proshop (good guys but not really target-focused). The DL is perhaps just a little long still but the BH is pretty far out to lunch.
I kind of figure I just need to shoot the damn thing for a while and worry about the fine stuff once I'm getting repeatable results.

Now I'm off to learn how to set-up 2nd and 3rd Axis on a scope. Remind me again why I ever thought tuning for stringwalking was a long process?

-Grant

P.S. Still got all my teeth and there aren't any holes in the shed. I must be a natural with the hinge.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Grant...shot it tonight for the first time since re-assy...one of the things that troubled me (but in a good way if that makes sense) is the fact that after shortening the draw 1/4"...unless my scale caught the flu?...it seems the bow lost several pounds (which is the good thing)...and I checked and rechecked and at the same limb bolt position that had the bow registering 50#s dead on?...was now 46#s and I have no clue why but...I'll take it! :laugh:

Other than that?...my form sucked tonight...I think mainly because I was tinkering and rushing...first I shot it with the 12" stab and then wanted to see how it responded with the 30" Papes out-rigger that came with it....just to see how the bow responded...then?...I grabbed my old Black Widow tab and tried split-finger...again just to see how the bow responded...and IMHO?...it actually prefers 3under as with split?...the bare shaft showed some inconsistent flight including everything BUT good whereas 3under shot pretty amazing...but I was rushing the shots and grabbing my bow on every one of them for some reason...probably because I was excited, rushing, tinkering and anything but..."relaxed"...but that will come when I get dialed in and more comfy with it...anyways...here's how things looked...






Thanks again, Bill. :cool2:

PS: Oh and BTW...congrats on mastering that hinge...but remember when you get that scope dialed that the hinge still demands your utmost attention.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

"master" would be too strong of a word. Lets leave it as "not terrified of". Struggling to figure out how you are supposed to anchor with the damn thing, last release I played with was a caliper and you just sort of stuck your knuckle behind your ear.

If you check your ATA it's probably just a little short and BH a little long because of twisting the DL down. Not a big deal unless you are scraping for speed. You could take a twist out of the buss and control which will shorten the DL a little and drop the weight slightly still. 

-Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Whelp?...great news Grant! 

I shot about 50 shots last night and this morning?...outside of feeling a little tight and pumped up top?...Zero pain issues!

Maybe it was the shortened draw...maybe those few less pounds...or maybe just growing pains on those first two sessions after not shooting a wheelie for over two years or a combo of all but...I'll take it!

I'll leave the bow where it's at for now and just shoot it for a week or two and then put another spin on the limb bolts and at least try to work my way up too the 52-54# draw weight again ...just to tighten up the bow...not that it's loose in any way right now but....

Thanks again, Bill. :cool2:


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Bill,

I'd like to compare videos to see if the comfort is a question of wrist position leading to less tension in the elbow. Funny how the little things really add-up.

I was running a pile of mass on my Rec BB and although it shot great for 3D it really wore me down shooting indoor. I took 10oz off, rested a few days and things seem to be a bit better.

I wouldn't touch the limb bolts if you are comfortable. Speed is just a different set of arrows away, that bow will feel just fine down at 5gpp.

-Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> Bill,
> 
> I'd like to compare videos to see if the comfort is a question of wrist position leading to less tension in the elbow. Funny how the little things really add-up.
> 
> ...


Yep...believe it or not that long pole sticking out the front feels like it weighs half of my 12" stab and not only was the reduction in mass very noticeable and a welcome relief to my bow arm shoulder and elbow but it also seemed to settle the bow down faster from the break over wobbles...I'm sticking with it for pleasure shooting in the backyard! LOL


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

What is the mass of your two stabs? What length is the short one? Does one use a rubber coupling to the weight?

-Grant


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> What is the mass of your two stabs? What length is the short one? Does one use a rubber coupling to the weight?
> 
> -Grant


Hmmm...that was amazing....Grant...I just got home and took the papes stab off the bow to feel the weight of the rod itself and?....the 30" Easton/Papes feels only slightly lighter than the 12"er...like maybe 2ozs lighter...the papes is a 30" rod with a 2oz weight at the end...the 12"er is a 8 or 9oz pse 8" with a 2"/2oz vibrachek rubber coupling then a 2oz cap weight for a total of about 12-13oz...but on the bow?...the 30'er feels like it's half the weight of the 12"er for some reason.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Sounds like that short stab has quite a bit of mass but not much of it near the end. The longer stab is likely balancing the bow better while still keeping the mass down. The short stab likely feels heavier because the bow still rocks back on release.
Personal recommendation would be to find/make a lightweight 10" stab that you can put a reasonable amount of weight on the end. I know I can make a 10" carbon stab under 4oz without much cost.

-Grant


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