# Beginner equipment



## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Ferigno said:


> I posted this type of question on the traditional archery board, but I think this might be a more accurate forum, since this style of competitive archery is exactly what I'm looking to get into.
> 
> For a person who's 5'11", 200#, and draws about 27-28, what kind of riser and limbs should I be looking to get into for around $300? I'd like to be able to keep the riser, ie. it's not something that I'll immediately outgrow. I'm sure that about 30# limbs are what I'm looking for so I don't overbow myself while learning. Any specific recommendations?
> 
> ...


Conventional wisdom is to buy inexpensive limbs and a riser that you will be able to use as you improve/up poundage. I suggest that at the very least, the riser should accept ILF fitted limbs. Samick and W&W make some inexpensive ILF limbs and there is a ready resale market when you are ready to move on.
As it relates to poundage, 30# sounds about right. I am fairly sure that a man of your size will draw to a longer distance than 27-28 inches. As your form progresses, I'm fairly certain that your draw length will increase. Cut your arrows long and you will not be disappointed.
Specific recommendations. You'll get lots of opinions. How about W&W T-Rex limbs and a used Hoyt Matrix riser. The riser should be 25" and the limbs medium in length


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## Ferigno (Jan 11, 2009)

Apparently the hoyt matrix is some sort of legendary piece of equipment, because all sorts of people are raving about it online, and complaining that it's no longer in production. It also seems like a lot of the forum classifieds seem to be a good way to get some equipment? Is this the way that most archers get gear?

Is the Hoyt Eclipse a comparable riser to the matrix? What about the W&W Kap Winstar Ii riser? Or am I cheaping out here and will regret the lack of customization options.

Good call on the limbs. That's exactly what I was thinking.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Copy/paste from the trad section --

Ferigno -

You really need to find out what their riser/bow really are. (The weight and length are fine.)

PSE never made a recurve limb. For the real FITA stuff, the older ones were made by Hoyt and the newer ones are from WW. Both are super. The older PSE risers, which they DID make, also hold up quite well, again need the names.

The only "gotcha" would be the Buckeye/Victory and Optima series of bows. These are made by Ragim in Italy and are uber entry level. Since you already did your home work and seem pretty sure about what you want to do, those are probably NOT a good idea. Their hunting bows are out of the question.

The length of the riser does seem a bit off. Typical FITA riser are 23" and 25", unless you're a gorilla, the 27" rsiers are a waste of money. 

If you'd like my suggestion, for a good first rig look at the Hoyt Eclipse and Stratix limbs. A little careful shopping will get you the set for around $300. The Eclipse is 25" which will be the most flexible length and that puppy shoots. With a 28" draw you can use short or medium limbs, but since you're new at this, odds are good your draw length will increase, so go with the mediums. 

You can giive me a shout on how to preceed, if you like.

Viper1 out.


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## Ferigno (Jan 11, 2009)

Excellent. Thank you very much. 

I'll find out next week what the riser actually is, but I have a sneaking suspicion that it's an Optima. 

I'll look at the eclipse.

Appreciate your help


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Ferigno said:


> Apparently the hoyt matrix is some sort of legendary piece of equipment, because all sorts of people are raving about it online, and complaining that it's no longer in production. It also seems like a lot of the forum classifieds seem to be a good way to get some equipment? Is this the way that most archers get gear?
> 
> Is the Hoyt Eclipse a comparable riser to the matrix? What about the W&W Kap Winstar Ii riser? Or am I cheaping out here and will regret the lack of customization options.
> 
> Good call on the limbs. That's exactly what I was thinking.


The Eclipse is a relatively heavy riser. It would not be my choice to start with.
Since the Matrix is a generation older, forums, eBay and other resale outlets are your options.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

I see that Viper has suggested the Eclipse. He is one of the people on this forum with expertise. I defer to his judgment.


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## FrayAdjacent (Oct 20, 2008)

KAP WinStar II riser and TREX limbs. It's what I'm using, and it's an excellent bow. The riser will take me very far. It has all the appointments I'll need. I put a sight on it this week (Shibuya Dual Click), and will be able to mount stabilizers and a clicker. 

I would defer to more experienced archers here and their opinions about how far I can go with this bow, but I expect it will last me a long time. 

The limbs are temporary. The ones I have are 24# at 28", and I'm pulling around 29". Within a few months, I'll be looking at moving up to 30-34# limbs, but will keep the TREX limbs to work on form.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

buy a good riser-for your size-25" would be the most sensible. Buy cheap ILF limbs because you are going to outgrow them. Matrix risers are well made. So are lots of others. Most risers are going to be able to shoot much better than you will (or me or most archers). You can get a used Elan or Aerotech or Matrix and none of these have any real track record for problems (avoid first generation Avalons from Hoyt, Radians (they tend to be crooked) or some of the early PSE's like the Universal (they cracked). 

Limbs-The Basic Samicks or WWs are good starting points. I suggest new senior male recurve archers not hold much more than 30 pounds to start


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Midway -

Thanks buddy for the kind words . A friend has been shooting an Eclipse for a few weeks and, while I really didn't expect "that" much I was pleasntly surprised. I need another Tec riser like I need a hole in the head, but I'll be picking one up in the near future. It compares very favorably (IMHO) with the Aerotec and the Stratix limbs don't seem to be slouches either. Maybe Hoyt's getting the message. (Now, if they would loose the decals on the riser ... )

Ferigno - 

As far as limbs in general, I wouldn't break the bank on the first set, but if you are serious, don't go bargin basement either. A good set of light limbs should be enough to last you a while. Even as you progress to heavier and "better" limbs, odds are you'll be revisiting the lighter ones for form training and general brush-ups.

Viper1 out.


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## Ferigno (Jan 11, 2009)

The KAP Winstar II looks like something I might be interested in. Not too expensive. Right size (25). Capable of adding components (scope, stabilizer, etc.) ILF ready, and not terrible performance. Am I correct in thinking that this can get me from beginner to decent with some satisfaction? Understandably, there is a difference between this and a 800 riser, but am I right in thinking that this is a pretty good medium performance riser? Or should I be looking at stuff a little better like the eclipse and matrix?

Thanks for all your help. Believe me when I say that I am reading every word carefully and continuing to comb the forums for a broad perspective.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

The stuff you are considering are all "as good" or better than the stuff available in 1979 when Darrell and Rick both shot scores that would still be competitive at the US National championships for the outdoor FITA-with ALUMINUM arrows. Darrell also shot something in the neighborhood of an 1188/1200 at Vegas with such stuff. In other words, if you do your part, the equipment you are discussing will do its part as well


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## Ferigno (Jan 11, 2009)

Now that sounds like a response from an archery coach.  Why can't I have someone like you around where I live?


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## FrayAdjacent (Oct 20, 2008)

In my adult league, we start at 9 meters and have to score 230 to move to 13.5 meters, then the same to move to 18 meters. Within a couple weeks of getting my WinStar II, I was able to consistenly score better than 230 at 9 meters. (we had two 'practice' weeks, so I could not qualify for the next step up) In one afternoon, I was able to move up to 13.5 meters, then after shooting one round, I scored high enough to move to 18 meters. 

The first round I shot at 18, I scored higher than the only other guy shooting at 18M, and he's been shooting that range for a few weeks.

I'd say the bow is a great intermediate bow - good enough for a newbie, and will last well into advanced, until the factors that differentiate it from the high end risers come into play. I'm not even sure they will. I'm hoping the WinStar II will be my riser for many years to come. Limbs will be upgraded. Stabilizers and all the other doo-dads will be added, but the riser should take me pretty darn far. 

IMHO, it's a great place to start.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I buy alot of archery equipment. I have shot most of the stuff on the market. I think this is helpful if you are advising people or coaching would-be champions to know what is available and to have it so they can try it. Given that, I can state the following

1) All makers will say that their latest and greatest riser or limbs are better than the last thing they made or what other makers offer

2) Sometimes this is true-sometimes the goal is to offer something as good, for more money (or less cost to the maker)

For example-machined risers are more durable than cast risers. Indeed, machined risers can be shot many years without any noticeable change in performance by the vast majority of archers. Given that longevity, why should you-an archer-buy a new riser more than every several years? If you are a maker-how do you get someone to buy a new riser enough times that they can stay in business? Bring out new risers or limbs almost yearly and try to convince us they are "better".

3) Some archers want to try the newest stuff right away to see if it does give them an advantage-some-will wait and see and let others do the research. Faster limbs (assuming no loss in stability) are an advantage for field or outdoor target for example. Some limbs-have bugs in them-and the first generation thereof had problems.

4) Some manufacturing changes are designed to save money. I have no doubt that really good wood carbon limbs shoot as well as the all synthetic jobs. However, it takes time and money to get top of the line wood laminations. Foam is more consistent in quality. Same with the amount of machining on the risers.

BTW, IMHO the sky conquest still shoots as well as anything I own. That riser is around 14 years old. Vic and John Magera shot Sky limbs in 2004, Vic and Brady shot Sky wood-carbon limbs in 2008 (I don't know if they were Earl-made or Matthews made though). John's definetly were from Earl-I know how he got them.

Finally, there is very little stuff out there that is JUNK when you are talking about medium to expensive tackle. Hoyt, PSE, WW, Samick all make good risers and sell good limbs. A top archer is going to shoot well with any of them just as surely as Roger Federer is going to be able to beat 99.9% of the tennis players in the world with a Head, a Prince, A Wilson, A fischer or a Dunlop tennis racquet.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Jim C,

AWESOME responses!

Ray


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## Steve N (Apr 27, 2004)

Ferigno, where are you located? There are probably people close by who can help.


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## Ferigno (Jan 11, 2009)

I am located in Iowa City, IA. I work in Cedar Rapids. Thus far, I've found the Waltonian archers just north of Cedar Rapids to be a tremendously friendly group. Unfortunately, there just doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in competitive target archery around here. Certainly no dealers in equipment. I'm not blaming them for it, it's just not their thing. I get that. 

Since you brought that up, and this thread is entitled "beginner equipment", I might as well pose the question I was saving for later. I've read that there are a couple decent videos and books on learning this discipline. But let me get right to the point.

If I don't have a coach or a mentor to guide me through this process, am I wasting my time, competitively speaking? 

I'd like to think that by going to open shoot, and traditional contests (which they do have around here) I'd be able to pick up pointers. Also, by looking at a dvd or book or two (recommendations please), I'd be able to pick up enough to have a lot of fun and get better, but it seems like there are an awful lot of programs out there and people learning this as kids.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Ferigno said:


> If I don't have a coach or a mentor to guide me through this process, am I wasting my time, competitively speaking?


Absolutely not...but having a good coach can speed up the process and is crutial at some point if you really want to shoot at the elite level in todays prestigeous competitions.

I've never had a coach per se but I watched, read and researched as much as I could on my own and have done pretty well.

Just do the best you can do...with what you have...if that means finding a coach or researching through videos and books...just go for it and have fun!

Ray


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Ferigno -

A "coach" is relative, but you really need someone watching you who has an idea about what they are seeing. A GOOD compound shooter can do that, or even an astute friend or significant other. The problem is that YOU can't see what you're doing and in the beginning, what "feels" right may not be right. While there are usually cause and effects for most things that positively or negatively affect your shooting, again being able to recognize them is key to avoiding the pitfalls.

Worst case, video taping can help, but you still need an educated eye to spot not only what is happening, but why.

Viper1 out.


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

TERRIFIC RESPONSES!!!! GOOD THREAD!!!

Be remember, it's not the bow that makes the archer, it's the person holding the bow that makes all the difference. 

At my club, there is a 15 year old kid that shoots a 25lb, second hand, wooden riser Great Tree bow with the cheapest sight and arrows that you can get...no stabs. He consistently whips the pants off the adults, with the best of bows and high-tech gear.....lol

Kap Winstar with wood/glass limbs, a cartel sight, and matched arrows is a wonderful combo to start with.


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## stamper1924 (Nov 6, 2007)

bradd7 said:


> Kap Winstar with wood/glass limbs, a cartel sight, and matched arrows is a wonderful combo to start with.



I really enjoy using my Winstar II. I've been shooting it for about 2 months.


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## FrayAdjacent (Oct 20, 2008)

stamper1924 said:


> I really enjoy using my Winstar II. I've been shooting it for about 2 months.


The blue looks very nice with the black/steel accessories! My WinStar II is black.


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## Ferigno (Jan 11, 2009)

That is a very impressive rig, with the Kap Winstar. You included a lot of information in there about different things that you included on it. 

I'm moving on to asking more specific questions about clickers and additional items, sights, scopes, etc. So let me pose this question to you, the knowledgeable masses;

In addition to the riser (I'm going to go with the KAP Winstar II, for a variety of reasons), and the limbs (likely 28#, fairly inexpensive), and a string (I've done almost no research on this item)........

what else is essential gear for start up? Should I devote much time to research on the other items or is it pretty much "you need X. Go buy one for cheap". 

Should I just start another thread called Beginner Accessories? lol.

Again, thanks for the help.
Ferigno


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ferigno said:


> That is a very impressive rig, with the Kap Winstar. You included a lot of information in there about different things that you included on it.
> 
> I'm moving on to asking more specific questions about clickers and additional items, sights, scopes, etc. So let me pose this question to you, the knowledgeable masses;
> 
> ...


Well, a folding bow stand, like the one shown in the photo is a must for many ranges. Some places have bow racks that will take a full rig but you can't count on that....


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## FrayAdjacent (Oct 20, 2008)

Basics: The bow and limbs. A string (66-67" actual length if you go with long limbs). A STRINGER. (GET a stringer!) A Hoyt Super Rest should work just fine.

That's the basics. 

Then you get a case, arrows, stand, sight, sling, plunger, stabilizer....


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## bradd7 (Oct 17, 2008)

> Should I just start another thread called Beginner Accessories? lol.


Sounds like a good idea to me!


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## FrayAdjacent (Oct 20, 2008)

Srsly, there should be a couple tacked threads about beginning in FITA Recurve (and compound) archery. I had trouble as a newb finding information in ONE place. 

After a while, I found a great PDF document, I think through the Texas archery site, and have it locally, but don't have the link. (it's called the Reference Guide for Recurve Archers and has some good 'for beginners' stuff)


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## ArrowNewB (Nov 13, 2008)

I think we beginners should spend a little and get gears that we like. That way, we feel good and want to shoot more, there-by learning quicker.

It would suck to shoot with ugly looking gears that is not comfortable and do badly. When we shoot like crap around all those compound shooters talking about how many X's they did yesterday and today, at least we can sit back, relax and admire our riser, or rest, or limbs or whatnot right?  

Also if we spend a bit, it becomes a cost deterrent to just give up too easily.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

FrayAdjacent said:


> Srsly, there should be a couple tacked threads about beginning in FITA Recurve (and compound) archery. I had trouble as a newb finding information in ONE place.
> 
> After a while, I found a great PDF document, I think through the Texas archery site, and have it locally, but don't have the link. (it's called the Reference Guide for Recurve Archers and has some good 'for beginners' stuff)


A sticky of some sort, or a FAQ, for people looking to get into FITA Recurve would be great. There is a steep learning curve just to pick out equipment! It took me a year of lurking before I started to put together a rig...


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## rhixonhanson (Oct 8, 2006)

Ferigno said:


> I'm moving on to asking more specific questions about clickers and additional items, sights, scopes, etc. So let me pose this question to you, the knowledgeable masses;
> 
> In addition to the riser (I'm going to go with the KAP Winstar II, for a variety of reasons), and the limbs (likely 28#, fairly inexpensive), and a string (I've done almost no research on this item)........
> 
> ...





Ferigno said:


> That is a very impressive rig, with the Kap Winstar. You included a lot of information in there about different things that you included on it.
> 
> I'm moving on to asking more specific questions about clickers and additional items, sights, scopes, etc. So let me pose this question to you, the knowledgeable masses;
> 
> ...


Hi Ferigno, 
I have had some pretty extensive experience going over beginner equipment as someone who provides equipment to college clubs through the Easton Foundation. From what I've read, all of the advice seems pretty solid, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents. 

Everyone was correct in suggesting a good riser and inexpensive limbs to start. There are so many pretty good risers on the market right now -- not to mention all the used and discontinued ones -- that you really can't go wrong. The Matrix is an excellent riser, but perhaps a little too expensive for what you're trying to set up -- even used, they can run you over $250. I don't think anyone has mentioned the Samick Agulla riser, which is a pretty good one, as are the Hoyt Excel and KAP Winstar II. Keep in mind that the cost of the accessories will add up quickly, so you probably don't want to spend more than $200 on a riser. 

As far as limbs go, any inexpensive glass/wood limbs will be fine while you're learning. Like many have said -- you'll most likely outgrow them fairly quickly (fortunately, limbs are pretty easy to sell, whether here or on eBay). I know quite a few people who have been happy with the T-Rex limbs. Again, go with the medium size limbs (to make a 68" bow on a 25" riser) -- that's a good starting point for your height and draw length.

Now for accessories...Like the riser, some accessories are worth spending more money on, and some aren't. I'm sure a few people will disagree with me on which ones I say are more important -- so keep in mind that this is just my opinion. 

Rest: all you need is a stick-on arrow rest. These can range anywhere from a couple of dollars for a plastic one to around $50 for some of the more adjustable ones. I would recommend a Soma, Cartel, or KAP rest -- each for around $10. 

Plunger: I would recommend getting a fairly decent plunger, rather than the super basic ones. I have seen far too many people get frustrated with their plungers -- and because they are imperative for consistent arrow flight, its worth getting something that will be reliable. I'm not suggesting you buy a top of the line Beiter, but something in the range of $20-30 will cause you a lot less grief in the long run than a $3 one. I was really impressed with the Shibuya DX plunger, which runs for about $25.

Sight: Here again, you don't need anything fancy, but you don't want anything breaking or falling apart when you start to shoot more. The prices of sights are going to seem absurd, and you'll most likely be tempted to buy the cheapest one. That's OK -- but bear in mind that you may find yourself buying a new one in 6 months to a year. Buy something that's made of metal (or carbon), though -- not plastic. The plastic ones aren't designed to handle draw weights of more than about 20lbs. The Cartel Medalist would be a decent sight to start with -- and goes for around $55. 

Stabilizer: The basic function of the stabilizer is to adjust the bows center of gravity, add some weight, and absorb some of the shock of the shot. You would be fine getting a cheap stabilizer -- just be sure to add a couple of weights and a doinker on the end. And don't worry about an extender, a V-bar, or side rods. You can choose to add those later if you want, and definitely aren't necessary. A Cartel stabilizer would serve you well. The length you choose is a matter of personal preference, but here's a general guideline I like to use: When you stand the bow up on it's stabilizer, the bowstring should be somewhere around your navel. At your height, you can try anything from 25-32" 

Clicker: A clicker certainly isn't necessary when you're starting out -- and a lot of coaches prefer not to let their students use a clicker until they can reach their anchor consistently without one. However every single archer in the Olympics used a clicker, so it's something that you'll want to get eventually, and it will be good to have around when you finally decide to try it. I would caution that you don't want to use it too soon, as it might prevent you from finding your "true" anchor. pretty much any clicker will do. I would recommend the Beiter or Win&Win ones for simplicity. 

Finger Tab: Here is something that you should definitely not skimp on. A lousy tab will cause you discomfort, and anything that causes discomfort when you're trying to learn a discipline is bad. Avoid gloves -- the traditional shooters may all use them, but I don't know any target shooters who do. A good tab will cost you over $15, so don't buy anything that's less than that. A good bet is a Cavalier or Win&Win tab, which run about $30 -- but are well worth the money. 

Finger sling: You should get in the habit of using a finger sling fairly soon in your development. Sure, there are some very good archers who don't use them (incuding Viktor Ruban, the gold medal winner in Beijing), but they will definitely help you learn to relax your bow hand and not clutch the bow upon release. The good news is you don't have to buy one -- you can make one out of an old shoelace in about 3 seconds -- which a lot of archer choose to do. There are a few videos out there showing you how to do it. 

Arm Guard: An essential piece of equipment for a beginning archer. There's nothing that will discourage you more than repeatedly hitting your unprotected arm with the bowstring. Any sort of protection will work -- I've even seen some simple homemade variations. I would recommend getting a plastic one, though. A Saunders or Cartel Midas would work fine for about $7-8. 

Chest Protector: Not an essential piece of equipment starting out, unless you start getting the string caught on clothing or hitting your chest. If this happens, a chest guard will make you a lot happier. With the chest guard, personal preference and comfort is everything. If you don't have a great selection in your area to try out, you may have to order a few and return the ones you don't like. 

I hope this helps -- I know it's a lot to process, but believe me -- before long you'll be giving equipment advice of your own! Good luck -- if you have any further questions, feel free to email me at [email protected]. 

Best, 
Robert Hanson


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