# Newbie Questions...please be gentle...



## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

TL;DR Version - Anyone know anyone in the Louisville, KY who does FITA, and where do I start getting sized, and how cheap can I get a starter FITA setup?



Long Version - New to the forums, and new to archery. Well, not totally new, as I used teach summer campers all sorts of bad habits under the guise of "Archery Instruction". The bar for being an instructor was low, "Know the range rules, and pay attention to saftey and basic technique for an hour at a time 4 times a day".

Fast Forward 17 years, I have found myself with 4 kids, all of whom are interested in NASP (or just like to shoot). So we picked up some Genesis bows, and my 10, 8, 6, and 5 year olds are having a blast in the makeshift range in the backyard at 15 meters. (Official NASP instruction is lacking until dad gets thru BAI).

However, all of this shooting by my kids has gotten me interested in shooting again. I've never been a hunter, as it just doesn't interest me. (I have nothing against hunting. Deer sausage is *good*!) So I turned to target shooting, which is what I did when I was an archery instructor, those many many moons ago.

I read the what bow to tinker around with thread, and there is lots of good stuff there. I especially liked the link for starting equipment. I'm located in Louisville, KY, and am having a hard time finding *any* place that can even point me in the right direction as far as FITA shooting. I'd like to get into it, but I'm having a hard time finding any local resources that can get me pointed in the right direction. 

I should say, there are plenty of hunting resources here (Kings Archery Supply is very good!), but when I mention FITA, everyone spreads their hands and says, "We don't get much call for that style shooting in here..." Not that I don't expect that, I do. I get that it's less common, it's just disappointing. 

For example, I know that I don't want to spend lots of money on a setup, but I have no idea how to calculate whether I need a 23" or 27" riser. Short, Medium, or Long limbs. I'm not proud, and I know I don't have good technique (summer camp shooting 17 years ago does not promote proper FITA form), so I am thinking to go with a set of limbs in the #20-#25 range. Are the KAP T-Rex limbs still the best deal on the market? I see different sized risers in the classifieds, but since I don't know how to get started on sizing (No, I don't know my draw length yet), it's hard to consider spending *any* money.

I guess this is a "How do I even get started, when I don't know anyone, and don't seem to have any local resources to help?"

Will books help? Can I keep shooting my daughter's Genesis bow cranked up to #20, even though I draw to the limit of the bow? If I do get a setup, and the arrows fit, can I still use the Easton Genesis 1820 arrows for a while? I had to order 5 dozen (!!) of them for our homeschool.

So many questions, please don't ban me. 

Beren


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## recurvist22 (Jan 13, 2010)

ok, here goes. yes you can keep shooting the genesis but it will not give you the feedback a fita rig requires. Yes, kap t-rex limbs are the absolute best bang for the buck for a beginner-intermediate. i have a set and love them. you'll probably want to start very very light. i got the 34 pound limbs and they're almost too heavy for Olympic style shooting. and i started shooting a 50 pound recurve and shot it for 2 months, and 34 pounds is still almost too much. So yes, 20-25 pounds is perfect.

basically, the riser length is a matter of personal preference and draw length, which will be somewhat related to your height, but not exactly. basically, if you have a short draw length, 25-27inch, then a 66" bow will be ok, 28-30 and you'll want a 68" and above that, then go with a 70. the total bow length will be a combination of riser length, and limb length. Cheaper risers come in 23 and 25 inch, there are some others but those are the basics. limbs come in short, medium and long. a 25" riser and medium limbs will give you a 68, short limbs and it will be a 66, long and it will be a 70. for a 23" riser and medium limbs, it will be a 66", shorts will make it 64" and longs will make it 68, again, it's a matter of draw length. A great riser to start with will be the Kap Winstar II, $179 at Lancasters, or the Hoyt Eclipse, and both can be picked up used on the classifieds here.

the best book you can buy is Shooting the Stickbow by Anthony Camera, i bought it, and it's my recurve shooting Bible lol There are literally Hundreds of good books out there, but That one i know for sure will tell you everything you need to know.

The absolute best thing for you to do is find a good coach, but I can't even practice what i preach there because there's none around here, and i'm sure you're gonna have the same problem from what you say lol. Other than that. The book will teach you all about form, shooting, release etc... It can be bought at Lancasterarchery.com and i think it's 13.99. Best money you'll every spend in archery. The guy who wrote it gets on here alot and his username is Viper1. Absolutely great guy to talk to. Those arrows are going to be pretty stiff to start with, but right now you need to just concentrate on shooting. Don't worry too much about arrow spine and bow tuning. Make sure you're bow is in relatively good tune and then worry about shooting. You can get into the details of it later after your form is down, so ya, just shoot those arrows lol

Also, the good thing about recurves are, that unlike a compound bow, you can make them draw to virtually any draw length. Yes, there's going to be some bows that will give you a much better feel at a certain draw length, but just about any recurve will do for right now. I've sent you a pm, and if you want some more information, just give me a call.

And remember, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I've seen some whoppers of questions on here, and asked a few ridiculous ones myself. The guys/gals on here are very good to talk to.


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

recurvist22 said:


> ok, here goes. yes you can keep shooting the genesis but it will not give you the feedback a fita rig requires.


Will I get *anything* out of the Genesis, or should I just not touch it so I don't get into a bad habit? Like I said, it appears that my draw is just beyond or right at the limit of the bow, as I definately hit a stop on the cam.



recurvist22 said:


> Yes, kap t-rex limbs are the absolute best bang for the buck for a beginner-intermediate. i have a set and love them. you'll probably want to start very very light. i got the 34 pound limbs and they're almost too heavy for Olympic style shooting. and i started shooting a 50 pound recurve and shot it for 2 months, and 34 pounds is still almost too much. So yes, 20-25 pounds is perfect.


Anyone have a set of #20 or #25 Kap med/long limbs for cheap? 



recurvist22 said:


> basically, the riser length is a matter of personal preference and draw length, which will be somewhat related to your height, but not exactly. basically, if you have a short draw length, 25-27inch, then a 66" bow will be ok, 28-30 and you'll want a 68" and above that, then go with a 70. the total bow length will be a combination of riser length, and limb length. Cheaper risers come in 23 and 25 inch, there are some others but those are the basics. limbs come in short, medium and long. a 25" riser and medium limbs will give you a 68, short limbs and it will be a 66, long and it will be a 70. for a 23" riser and medium limbs, it will be a 66", shorts will make it 64" and longs will make it 68, again, it's a matter of draw length. A great riser to start with will be the Kap Winstar II, $179 at Lancasters, or the Hoyt Eclipse, and both can be picked up used on the classifieds here.


I'm 6'2", with long arms (79 1/2" from fingertip to fingertip), so how much does it matter if I end up with a 66 or 68 instead of a 70 in. bow? Especially considering that I'm a total noob, and would likely upgrade equipment in the future...



recurvist22 said:


> the best book you can buy is Shooting the Stickbow by Anthony Camera, i bought it, and it's my recurve shooting Bible lol There are literally Hundreds of good books out there, but That one i know for sure will tell you everything you need to know.
> 
> The absolute best thing for you to do is find a good coach, but I can't even practice what i preach there because there's none around here, and i'm sure you're gonna have the same problem from what you say lol. Other than that. The book will teach you all about form, shooting, release etc... It can be bought at Lancasterarchery.com and i think it's 13.99. Best money you'll every spend in archery. The guy who wrote it gets on here alot and his username is Viper1. Absolutely great guy to talk to.


 I've read a bunch of his posts, and he speaks with authority.  Being an avid reader, I can't wait to pick it up!


recurvist22 said:


> Those arrows are going to be pretty stiff to start with, but right now you need to just concentrate on shooting. Don't worry too much about arrow spine and bow tuning. Make sure you're bow is in relatively good tune and then worry about shooting. You can get into the details of it later after your form is down, so ya, just shoot those arrows lol


So the Easton Genesis 1820's will be ok to start with?



recurvist22 said:


> Also, the good thing about recurves are, that unlike a compound bow, you can make them draw to virtually any draw length. Yes, there's going to be some bows that will give you a much better feel at a certain draw length, but just about any recurve will do for right now. I've sent you a pm, and if you want some more information, just give me a call.
> 
> And remember, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I've seen some whoppers of questions on here, and asked a few ridiculous ones myself. The guys/gals on here are very good to talk to.


 Thanks for the info, I appreciate the phone offer, and may end up taking you up on it! (and sorry for the additional questions...)


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## recurvist22 (Jan 13, 2010)

no problem at all. 

considering the draw of the genesis is too short and it's completely different from what you're going to be shooting, don't even mess with it.

it doesn't matter all that much to a begginner-intermediate. yes, if you have a 64" bow and draw it to 32" then ya, it's gonna stack(the last few inches will be very hard to pull through) but no, it's not going to really matter at this point. Besides, the first set of limbs, and usually the riser, will be upgraded within 6 months to a year so it's not a big deal at all.

ya, tony's awesome lol buy the book 

yes, the genesis 1820's will be fine, providing they're long enough, you won't really know until you get the bow and put an arrow on and if you pull it to anchor(where your fingers and string meet your face) and the arrow falls off the back of the rest because it's not long enough, then you'll need to get some longer ones. 

Your draw length to start with will usually be shorter than what you end up with. as your form and shooting habits develop, it will usually grow an extra inch or so. I'm 6"3 and on a recurve, my arrows are about 28.5 inches at the clicker( the clicker is a demon little piece of steel that when you start using it, you'll hate it, then after a while you'll wonder how you ever shot without it, but you DO NOT need to start using one right away, so don't worry about it right now.) It as with alot of other stuff, will be covered in the book. What i suggest you do, although it sucks, is just go to lancasterarchery.com and buy the book, and limbs. you'll probably find a riser on here, but sometimes it can take time. i've got a Black Kap Winstar II for sale for 125, if you want to go that route, but the limbs i have are a little too heavy to startt with for most people(me included lol) There are alot of good deals on the classifieds here, but sometimes, beginner fita equipment is hard to come by, most that have it dont want to get rid of it lol

and no prob on the additional questions. everyone on this forum was once a beginner and some, myself included, still are. there's a mountain of information on here and we all had to learn somewhere


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

You've got a PM re the Winstar.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

79.5-INCH wingspan.

I figure your draw length to be roughly 32-inches.

Genesis 1820 arrows...ABSOLUTELY not. Full shaft length = 30.5-inches.

I work with lots of recurve shooters,
and for the beginner-intermediate shooter...

I HIGHLY recommend, getting properly spined arrows, from the start.

Shooting way too stiff arrows will result in horrible accuracy,
and will have the new recurve shooter extremely discouraged.


So,
assuming we start with 20 lbs limbs...

with a 32-inch draw length,
you will feel nearly 28 lbs of draw weight on the fingers,
cuz limbs are rated for draw weight at 28-inches of draw length.

(rule of thumb is about 2 lbs of extra weight per inch of extra draw length over 28-inches)
(32-inch draw length will usually give you about 8 lbs MORE than the limb rating)

Strongly suggest a 25-inch riser,
with the LONG limbs, resulting in a 70-inch long bow.

A 70-inch long bow will have a SMOOTH feeling draw,
even with a 32-inch long draw length.


So,
assuming a set of 20 lb limbs,
and
a 70-inch recurve bow (metal handle with ILF limbs...limbs with the dovetail fittings or also known as the Olympic Style recurve rig)...

you will be shooting about 28-lbs of weight on the fingers.



The challenge is to find an arrow that is LONG enough,
so it is SAFE for you to shoot with...
AND
the appropriate stiffness,
so you will have some reasonable accuracy.


Software programs make figuring out the "Proper Spine" rather easy.

So,
here are the results.


The ONLY arrows that come LONG enough,
so it is SAFE for you to shoot..

Easton X7 2114 aluminum arrows

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_79_66&products_id=1596

$79.99 a dozen at Lancaster Archery

Install the inserts with hot melt glue, or have Lancaster build the arrows for you.

Use 145 grain screw in field points.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_77&products_id=1766


Have the arrows fletched with 3-inch long feathers.
(you MUST use feathers...cuz vanes are HEAVIER, and the heavier vanes will make your arrows TOO STIFF to work for you)
(yes, switching from lightweight feathers to heavier plastic vanes, makes a difference in how your arrows work for you draw weight).


28 lbs on the fingers may not sound like much draw weight,
but you will be working on shooting technique,
and learning FINE MOTOR CONTROL.

I would start you at 5 yards,
and the goal will be to put all your arrows onto a 40 cm target (slightly less than 16-inches)

You should be able to nail all your arrows into the target fairly quickly.

Then,
work on shooting at 10 yards,
and getting ALL your arrows, onto the target face.


You decide if you want to shoot barebow (no sights)
or
if you want to shoot with a sight.


Invest in an arm guard,
invest in a quality finger tab...

suggest the Cavalier Elite
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/product_info.php?cPath=49_234&products_id=1118


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

nuts&bolts said:


> 79.5-INCH wingspan.
> 
> I figure your draw length to be roughly 32-inches.
> 
> Genesis 1820 arrows...ABSOLUTELY not. Full shaft length = 30.5-inches.


How did you calculate my draw length? Is there a formula? In any case, I'm getting that measured today, down at the pro shop.



nuts&bolts said:


> I work with lots of recurve shooters,
> and for the beginner-intermediate shooter...
> 
> I HIGHLY recommend, getting properly spined arrows, from the start.
> ...


Hmm. I may have been premature, but I picked up a used 25" riser, and a set of T-Rex Medium #22 limbs.

So I'll be on a 68" bow, not a 70". How will that affect the draw weight? I'm assuming shorter limbs will stack more?



nuts&bolts said:


> The challenge is to find an arrow that is LONG enough,
> so it is SAFE for you to shoot with...
> AND
> the appropriate stiffness,
> ...


Where can I find this software? Is there a formula? Is it in Shooting the Stickbow? My copy should arrive today or Monday.



nuts&bolts said:


> So,
> here are the results.
> 
> 
> ...


Ugh. I was hoping to use the genesis, as I already had them.  In any case, I see I *really* need to get my draw length nailed down. We'll see if I can afford to get a set of arrows, or if I'll need to make do for now. Not optimal by any stretch, but I suffer from a loathing of using credit, so I'll probably have to save up for them, maybe in the spring...

That said, there was a lot of info in those last paragraphs. Does everyone here use real feathers for fletching?

You mention a specific arrow (Easton X7 2114). I'm assuming if my draw length comes in less, I will have more options?

You mention that Lancaster can install the points, can they do the fletching and the nocks as well?

Is understanding arrow sizing covered in Shooting the Stickbow?



nuts&bolts said:


> 28 lbs on the fingers may not sound like much draw weight,
> but you will be working on shooting technique,
> and learning FINE MOTOR CONTROL.
> 
> ...


More info to digest! (And I forgot to order a finger tab)

Thanks a TON for the help!


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## LoveMyHoyt (Nov 29, 2008)

beren said:


> TL;DR Version - Anyone know anyone in the Louisville, KY who does FITA,
> Beren


If you are near Louisville - then you are what -3 hours or so from Cincinnati? I would think that you could find someone there (Jim C - can you help or know someone who can?). Three hours drive to see a coach is doable -- you burn a whole day, but it can be done. 
When I started - I had nobody here to help me. Our club was all compounders so I went to state shoots. I learned a lot by asking other recurvers all sorts of questions, watching them, reading books (lots of books), and watching videos. I finally just started working with a coach last year who was 9 hours away. That was TOO far and just didn't work out. I am now seeing a coach who is 3 hours away - and it's nice to be able to do it all in one day. 3 hours up - work a while - have lunch - work some more - then drive home. I found it was better to not try to do too much at one time. Anyway, I wish you luck. FITA is a challenge, but I love it. (I know compounders who have tried it and now have a greater respect for what we do).


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

Nah, Cinci is only 70-80 min from me...


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

nuts&bolts said:


> 79.5-INCH wingspan.
> 
> I figure your draw length to be roughly 32-inches.


 Ok, the local pro shop wasn't very helpful. And they said that they've only ever seen one guy with a draw length over 31 inches, and respectfully said that whomever told me that I had a 32 might not know what they were talking about.

I did specify it was for an ILF recurve rig, and they said for a custom bow like that, you can't calculate draw length, you have to measure it with bow in hand.

In any case, it was less helpful than I was expecting... 

Is all this covered in the book, and I'm just wasting everyone's time with these questions?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

B - 

With all due respect to my buddy Alan (N&B), your local Pro Shop is partly right. You really can't calculate stickbow draw length and the DL "charts" are fine for some folks and worthless for others. (The wall chart at my local range shows me to have a 26.5" draw, which explains why I need a 29" arrow to break a clicker that's deep to the back of the riser...and I'm a whole 5'9" tall.)

I have a few students with draw lengths over 31", so it's not uncommon. *The only way to determine your DL is with a very light weight draw check bow or a mock up of one.* Be advised, since you're new to this, your draw length will change as your form develops. It will usually get longer, but might actually get shorter, if your anchor changes. 

No, you're not wasting anyone's time, but this stuff is covered (in detail) in the book that recurvist22 mentioned, 

Viper1 out.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Calculating draw length and posture, at full draw*



beren said:


> How did you calculate my draw length? Is there a formula? In any case, I'm getting that measured today, down at the pro shop.


Hello beren:

Yes, there is a formula,
but the formula assumes several things,
about your posture,
when you are at full draw.

Like Viper1 says...

there are adjustments to your posture/form,
while at full draw...
that will develop in the early months,
say first year of training,
for a new recurve shooter.

So....

the best thing to do,
is to get your own copy of Viper1's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Stickbow-Anthony-Camera/dp/1602642443

"Shooting the Stickbow" by Anthony Camera.


In the mean time,

http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Do...opment/Beginners_Manual/BeginnersManuel-e.pdf

here is a nice manual for beginning recurve folks,
to get a description of the basic skill sets/drills.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

beren said:


> Hmm. I may have been premature, but I picked up a used 25" riser, and a set of T-Rex Medium #22 limbs.
> 
> So I'll be on a 68" bow, not a 70". How will that affect the draw weight? I'm assuming shorter limbs will stack more?


Your actual weight on the fingers,
will, obviously,
depend on your posture,
and
your posture
defines how far away your bow hand,
will be from your face,
while at full draw.

So,
you MIGHT be a 32-inch draw length
or
if you stand differently,
you MIGHT be a 31-inch draw length.

22 lb limbs,
which means 22 lbs of weight on the fingers for a 28-inch draw length person.

For a 29-inch draw length person,
these 22 lb limbs will generate about 24 lbs on the fingers.

For a 30-inch draw length person,
these 22 lb limbs will generate about 26 lbs on the fingers.

For a 31-inch draw length person,
and
assuming these limbs start to "stack" (which means the draw weight curve starts climbing rapidly...)

let's assume at 31-inches of draw length,
if these 22 lb limbs will allow a 31-inch draw length...

let's say taht you MIGHT be at 29 lbs-ish on the fingers,
maybe even 30 lbs-ish on the fingers.

If you are pulling say 31.5-inches of draw length,
then these 22 lb limbs,
which may or may not allow you to pull back 31.5-inches SMOOTHLY...

you might be at 31-34 lbs on the fingers.

Just depends.

Draw slowly, and smoothly,
and see if the limbs bend to your draw length
or
if part way to full draw and anchor,
if it FEELS like the limbs do not want to draw any further...
then,
don't draw any further.


I shoot a 30-inch draw length,
and most bows will allow me to get to full draw...

and

once,
one set of limbs,
would not let me get to 30-inches of draw...felt like I was going to snap the limbs
about 90% of the way to full draw.

KAP limbs work quite well.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

*Arrows LONG enough, to shoot safely at YOUR draw length*



beren said:


> Ugh. I was hoping to use the genesis, as I already had them.  In any case, I see I *really* need to get my draw length nailed down. We'll see if I can afford to get a set of arrows, or if I'll need to make do for now. Not optimal by any stretch, but I suffer from a loathing of using credit, so I'll probably have to save up for them, maybe in the spring...
> 
> That said, there was a lot of info in those last paragraphs. Does everyone here use real feathers for fletching?
> 
> ...



Real feathers are more forgiving,
for a newer recurve shooter.

Real feathers are also much lighter in weight, than vanes.

Extra weight on the back end of an arrow,
makes the arrow behave STIFFER.

Since you have those long gorilla arms...

the challenge is finding arrows LONG enough for you to shoot SAFELY,
AND
close to the appropriate stiffness,
so the arrows will shoot within the "proper spine" range,
for the draw weight (weight on the fingers) you will be shooting.


So,
when you find out what DRAW LENGTH you will be shooting
for the next say 60-days...

then,
the best thing to do is to order arrows several INCHES LONGER
than what you believe to be your current draw length.

As your form develops,
USUALLY...

your draw length increases,
so the weight on the fingers increases.

AS the weight on the fingers increases...

then the arrow needs to be stiffer.

So,
the arrows I recommended,
will work for a 32-inch draw length,
and
are on the stiff side,
so they require rather HEAVY field points ...145 grains.

As your draw length likely increases over time...

you need stiffer arrows,
so...

you can easily just use LIGHTER field points,
say 125 grains,
then later..

100 grains.....

and the same arrows will last you a long time,
cuz you can make your arrows handle your higher and higher
draw weight...(draw length increases and/or you buy heavier limbs).

Each time your draw length increases...

just try lighter weight points.


Each time you buy heavier limbs..
just try lighter weight points.


Alan


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

Here's a shaft that might fit the bill for a beginner with a long draw.

Easton Neos

Alloy shaft xx75 with swage ends (sorry glue on nocks) 1618 diameter, 950 spine. uncut shaft is 32.5 

I don't know if you can get other points but the points sold for these are only 50gn so they may actually spine out ok.

Not ideal but they are cheap. I'll have to run the TAP program and build a profile for those shafts and see what they would do with 28lbs at that draw length.

DC


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

The book arrived yesterday!!! Woo! I sent the Med. T-Rex #22 limbs and string back, and ordered a set of longs and a 70" String. They only had #20 in stock for the long T-Rex, so I picked them up, seeing how I have no conditioning for this.

I like the book so far. Here's looking forward to a nice long read!


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## bsites9 (Mar 22, 2008)

see, even the new guy knows you have to tread lightly around AT when making comments or asking questions, in fear of being blasted!!:teeth:


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

Lizard here, JimC's wife! Yes, we'd be willing to help. Just respond via PM to JimC or to me and we can set something up! 

Also, helpful site is www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/archflyer.asp This is where NASP got started! Check it out!

BTW, there is a National NASP tournament at the NFAA National Indoor Championships, March 25-27, Louisville Convention Center, you could come check that out to! My son and I are signed up for the 2011 NFAA Indoor already! 




LoveMyHoyt said:


> If you are near Louisville - then you are what -3 hours or so from Cincinnati? I would think that you could find someone there (Jim C - can you help or know someone who can?). Three hours drive to see a coach is doable -- you burn a whole day, but it can be done.
> When I started - I had nobody here to help me. Our club was all compounders so I went to state shoots. I learned a lot by asking other recurvers all sorts of questions, watching them, reading books (lots of books), and watching videos. I finally just started working with a coach last year who was 9 hours away. That was TOO far and just didn't work out. I am now seeing a coach who is 3 hours away - and it's nice to be able to do it all in one day. 3 hours up - work a while - have lunch - work some more - then drive home. I found it was better to not try to do too much at one time. Anyway, I wish you luck. FITA is a challenge, but I love it. (I know compounders who have tried it and now have a greater respect for what we do).


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

Here's my first test shoot. I went to Bass Pro Shop to use their draw-length bow, and it turns out, it must have been a #30 draw, easy! Needless to say, once I hit about 30 inches, it stacked like crazy, as it wasn't more than 64"...  

Anyway, here's a vid of the shoot, only 2 min long...

My daughter shot it with the camera vertical, so it's a tall screen vid. 

Bump up to 720p for the most detail. Where to start on this? Is my draw arm too high? Given the bad angle/shaky, is there anything that you guys can tell me?


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

beren said:


> Here's my first test shoot. I went to Bass Pro Shop to use their draw-length bow, and it turns out, it must have been a #30 draw, easy! Needless to say, once I hit about 30 inches, it stacked like crazy, as it wasn't more than 64"...
> 
> Anyway, here's a vid of the shoot, only 2 min long...
> 
> ...


Adjusted the still picture rotation so that the floor is level.










Notice how you have the bow hand way above your shoulder?
Bow arm is uphill, while the arrow is dead level.

This is a side effect of the "high" anchor point along the side of your face.

Picture is fuzzy,
BUT...

it looks like you are using a split finger hold (index above the nock, middle and 4th fingers below the nock).


There ARE advantages to having the nock just under your eyeglasses (high anchor).

You may want to try the 3 fingers UNDER the nock style,
when you have the arrow nock just under your eyeglasses.











This picture is from the FITA beginners manual.

Some very good reading.

http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Do...opment/Beginners_Manual/BeginnersManuel-e.pdf


The only difference in your VIDEO and the FITA Manual "body posture"
is...

the FITA manual image is for the "string walking" style,
where you use 3 fingers UNDER the nock...

and 
you line up the nock of the arrow directly IN FRONT of the center of your eyeball,
so you look over the top of the arrow, just like a rifle barrel.

You ALWAYS put the point of your arrow on the bullseye,
and
you adjust your point of impact...

by holding the string lower and lower (larger and larger gap between your index finger and the nock).

As you increase this gap between the top of your index finger and the nock...

the LOWER your point of impact on the target.


If you are hitting the bullseye the way you are shooting in your video,
then...

don't bother changing a thing.


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

bulls-eye? Nope. I'm hitting a 40cm NFAA target face from 20-ish meters. I haven't been behind the nock long enough to be shooting bulls-eyes all over the place yet.  That said, I taught my kids to use the 3 fingers under method, as that's what I was told they should be doing for NASP. 

What I hear you saying (before you explained string walking), is that I need to lower the bow until my bow arm is parallel to the ground. Like is explained and shown on page 38 of Shooting the Stickbow. Is that correct?


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

Sorry to bring this thread back from the grave, but I'm finally getting ready to purchase my arrows. :embara:

The Easton X7 Eclipse has been mentioned, and are still around $80/doz. Would the Easton XX75 Platinum (size 2114) work?

I'm trying to figure out the differences in sizing between the aluminum (diameter|wall thickness) and the carbon (stiffness?) shafts.

Are there easton carbon shafts that fit my profile? 32" draw @ around 30#?

Thanks,
Beren


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

Maybe you should consider a lighter arrow. I think 2016 would be similar spine and a little lighter(im not sure though)


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## zaphod2002 (Dec 18, 2010)

Have you talked to a coach yet? They should be able to help you spine your arrows correctly for you. I ended up way overspining my daughters arrows when I did not know better. Just means buying another dozen arrows. She is still growing so I went with the Easton Jazz as they are cheap and offer a ton of spines to choose from. Less than $50 per dz MTO at Lancaster. I don't know how long they are uncut though. I am a newbie also and haven't been hammered too bad yet. You can always try out the Mutanville forum if this one gets too much.


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

No, I haven't talked to a coach yet. I'm going to chat with titanium man at the NFAA Indoor Nationals, which I just found out were being held here in my hometown!

need-a-bow, why would you recommend a lighter arrow?

Also, is there a way to translate between aluminum and carbon sizing? Like a 2114 == 300 for a carbon arrow?

Beren


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## MOPARLVR4406 (Apr 5, 2006)

Indoor Nationals are in L'ville March 26-27
might be some vendors and people in the know there

ya snuck the above post in on me :wink:


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## straat (Jan 22, 2009)

beren said:


> No, I haven't talked to a coach yet. I'm going to chat with titanium man at the NFAA Indoor Nationals, which I just found out were being held here in my hometown!
> 
> need-a-bow, why would you recommend a lighter arrow?
> 
> ...


If you look at the easton archery webpage for X7 arrows and click "more >" it will show you a table with all specifications of the different shafts. You will be able to see that a 2016 shaft, which has a spine of 531, is in fact heavier, not lighter than a 2114, which has a spine of 510.


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

straat said:


> If you look at the easton archery webpage for X7 arrows and click "more >" it will show you a table with all specifications of the different shafts. You will be able to see that a 2016 shaft, which has a spine of 531, is in fact heavier, not lighter than a 2114, which has a spine of 510.


 Isn't that figure the amount of deflection in inches (and technically, is 0.531 and 0.510), which would make the 2114 slightly more stiff (because it deflects less) than the 2016? Or am I reading that wrong?

I also see that the grain does increase from 287 on the 2114 to 307 on the 2016. I guess that makes the 2016 heavier, but slightly less stiff?

Ugh. Time to go back to the book.


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## need-a-bow (Aug 10, 2010)

I meant the weight but I was reading the charts all wrong. Although I forgot to mention the spine difference. thanks for correcting me.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

beren said:


> Isn't that figure the amount of deflection in inches (and technically, is 0.531 and 0.510), which would make the 2114 slightly more stiff (because it deflects less) than the 2016? Or am I reading that wrong?
> 
> I also see that the grain does increase from 287 on the 2114 to 307 on the 2016. I guess that makes the 2016 heavier, but slightly less stiff?
> 
> Ugh. Time to go back to the book.


beren:

Have you figured out your draw length yet?


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## beren (Oct 12, 2010)

*Arrows arrived!*

Ok, I got a set of 32" Easton X7 2114 with 145gr screw in points with helical feather fletching from Lancaster. Very nice.

Outdoor Distance 20 Meters
Face Size 122cm
Total Score: 553
Total 10s:	23
Total Xs:	8

```
#1 	9	9	9	9	8	8	52
#2	10	10	9	9	8	8	54
#3	10	9	9	9	8	7	52
#4	9	9	9	9	9	8	53
#5	x	x	9	9	9	8	55
#6	x	10	10	9	10	9	58
#7	10	9	9	9	9	9	55
#8	x	10	9	9	9	8	55
#9	x	10	10	10	10	9	59
#10	x	x	x	10	10	10	60
```
Shot on a 122cm face, tho (All I have at the moment)


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Hey, glad to see you are having fun. Don't worry about the score too much. Make sure you're executing the shot in a way that is repeatable and you are grouping your arrows. In time, if you are benchmarking your progress, choose a face size that is the norm with the distance you are shooting. Keep having fun and learning!


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