# Best Android app for keeping archery score?



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

beerbudget said:


> What app are you guys using for keeping score on the phone and how do you like it? I'm mostly interested in the indoor FITA 300 round. Thanks.


I'm using ArcherZUpshot. It has great graphic data features and it has the best graphic scoring user interface (visually dropping arrows on a target) I've seen, plus the developers are nice. However, the *rest* of the program's UI is still, to be charitable, an opportunity for improvement and a number of people I know have tried the free demo and given up on it because of the inconsistent, propriitary UI.


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Can you be a little more specific about what part of the UI is problematic?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Cephas said:


> Can you be a little more specific about what part of the UI is problematic?


There's too much to get into on my phone - it's easiest just to try it for yourself and see if it works for you since not everyone will be bothered by the UI.

However, here's just one example...









Instead of Cancel and OK there is just "OK", but up in the corner there is a do not enter symbol, and if you click it it acts like a cancel. But that's not a standard use of the do not enter symbol, nor is this symbol used consistently throughout the UI.

Here's an example where its use is redundant:









And here an entirely different symbol is used to mean cancel (in this case, "delete"):









And those are just some easy, clear cut examples of the inconsistent, proprietary UI. There's much more where that came from but it's a bit more nuanced and would take a long time to type on a phone.

I wouldn't care except I think the program has a lot of great features and I would love to see it fulfill its potential. Right now I could see it being used as a college assignment in which students came up with ideas to improve the user interface.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Archer Z upshot and the developers get back to you very fast if here is an issue. You can also customize a round. You can download it and you get 500 free shots to try it out. That's the best way to decide if you like it.


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## Sean.Magnusen (Aug 6, 2014)

I also use ArcherZUpshot.

I also agree that the UI isn't the best, but recent updates have made it *much* better and more intuitive. UI is a tricky area since everybody has different opinions and preferences, but there are some areas (like the standardization between menu's mentioned above) and where/how things are accessed that I do think have room for improvement that most everybody would take well to.

Aside from the UI though, I've not seen anything else that even comes close to the functionality ArcherZUpshot offers.


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## sixstringer4528 (Feb 28, 2014)

Archery score sheets app


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## beerbudget (Feb 5, 2011)

I've been using Archery Score Book but will check out ArcherZUpshot. Thanks.


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks for the clarification Warbow. We've used AZupshot for over a year now and have found it very helpful and with the frequent updates it's becoming better over time. The developers are very open to constructive criticism, I'll pass this along (but I suspect they've already read this thread.)


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## BobCo19-65 (Sep 4, 2009)

I use Archery Scorer lite. I can use my stylus to plot hits on a target face. I like it.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Cephas said:


> Thanks for the clarification Warbow. We've used AZupshot for over a year now and have found it very helpful and with the frequent updates it's becoming better over time. The developers are very open to constructive criticism, I'll pass this along (but I suspect they've already read this thread.)


I've had nothing but good experiences with Fern Slack of Missing Marble Apps. The continual upgrading of AZU has made it one of the most complete scoring apps out there - with a very complete set of rounds, including 3D targets. It has a really rich feature set. And the updates are good. Though sometimes they take some small steps backwards, as with implementing the "Wrong Way/Do Not Enter" symbol as a non-standard "cancel" icon (it generally means "don't go there" not "get me out of here" so why would you want to click on it?).

UI design is tough, especially when working cross platform. It is also the case that due to limited engineering bandwidth developers have to make choices between fixing basics like layout and UI or creating new show stopper features - a problem that occurs even at big companies where features that will advertise well, or look good in a a product demo are given priority over "boring" stuff like fixing the UI (remember how early generations of iPhone's lacked copy and paste? It's a fundamental feature that the iPhone painfully lacked, but not one that would exciting for Steve Jobs to hype on stage, so it didn't get priority...)

I look forward to the day when I can recommend AZU without qualification. Right now I can recommend it with the qualification that the UI is still in need of some tough love.


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

i'm using MyTargets


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## ceallred (Nov 25, 2012)

Artemis lite is my choice. It does all the norm: scoring, analytics, logging form changes, sight marks, etc . Haven't found anything as good yet

Tried AZU and quit because if the ui issues.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I use paper and either a ball point pen, or sometimes a pencil. Depends on what is available. If I don't have paper, I have been known to tabulate data on the target face itself. 

But don't get me wrong - I love the fact that so many are into this stuff.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I use paper and either a ball point pen, or sometimes a pencil. Depends on what is available. If I don't have paper, I have been known to tabulate data on the target face itself.
> 
> But don't get me wrong - I love the fact that so many are into this stuff.


This is where I'm at too, for right now.

However, I had an idea, as I watched the range officer entering scores into his laptop so we could sort by shooting style and score to determine winners in the tournament. We also use that digital data he collects to post scores on the facebook page later so manually sorting and totaling on paper doesn't help. The idea I had was, wouldn't it be nice if we could just use the zap feature to collect the scores from each smarty phone as the shooters come in off the range... Of course it would help if they all conformed to a standardized file format per archer. That would be a real nice feature where you could setup a customized scoring template on the laptop and the range officer could zap the template to the archers phone. From there the archers could fill out the score card and zap it back at the end of the round. Of course you could use a standard tournament template too. Either way allow the archer to send the finished score to a centralized device for ranking and archiving. That would be really nice.


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## fslack (Jan 13, 2013)

*Gettin' Better All The Time...*

Gotta love your sheer honesty, Warbow! And of course you are not wrong. I think you'll like the next release UI better, but I believe we are reaching a point where we are going to outsource the UI work to folks who are professionals in that department!

I had a great time with your second post in this thread, pointing out some of the more egregious inconsistencies. We've spent some time over the last couple of weeks addressing those specifically.

This is not only true but a integral, inescapable fact of our every workday at ArcherZUpshot: "UI design is tough, especially when working cross platform. It is also the case that *due to limited engineering bandwidth **developers have to make choices between fixing basics like layout and UI or creating new show stopper features* - a problem that occurs even at big companies where features that will advertise well, or look good in a a product demo are given priority over "boring" stuff like fixing the UI (remember how early generations of iPhone's lacked copy and paste? )"

We are grateful to you and all the terrific folks on AT who've given us some of our best ideas and some of our toughest criticism. One does not grow without both.

Cheers!
Fern


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

fslack said:


> Gotta love your sheer honesty, Warbow! And of course you are not wrong. I think you'll like the next release UI better, but I believe we are reaching a point where we are going to outsource the UI work to folks who are professionals in that department!
> 
> I had a great time with your second post in this thread, pointing out some of the more egregious inconsistencies. We've spent some time over the last couple of weeks addressing those specifically.


I gotta say, you help make the app better just by being so darn nice in your posts. Not every product developer is a good spokesperson for their product but you do a great job (I can think of at least one person who makes a great product but sometimes does their product more harm than good when they post contentiously here). I look forward to the updates.

Here's one of my favorite head scratchers in AZU.

Here's the visual scoring system. The checkmark starts off as an outline. When you are done scoring, you click on the right arrow to move to the next end. If you go back to a previous end, you'll find the check mark has been filled in with a solid green to indicate completion, and that the results are locked. Clicking on the solid green check mark is to *unlock* results and change them. 









Here is the screen for confirming the options when you add a round to an event. There is no OK button, no "next" button, no right arrow to continue. There is a solid green arrow. You have to click on the solid green arrow to continue. Clicking on the green check mark does not unlock anything to allow for changes, instead, the solid green check mark is the "OK" button. :dontknow:









I think getting some outside UX help sounds really promising. At the very least, getting an outside pair of eyeballs can be helpful. When you know the program from the inside out, lots of features can seem intuitive in ways that they don't to customers. (The tool tips text messages are helpful to me- but if you have to explain something, then there has been a failure in the interface.)


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

I use Archery Companion. It is simple and straightforward. Not nearly as much attention to detail as some of these other apps. But you can create custom scoring rounds, enter scores, and it calculates your end score, round score, and average. It also saves the data and records your PB for each type of scored round. Oh and its free, so thats nice.


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## beerbudget (Feb 5, 2011)

Ten_Zen said:


> But you can create custom scoring rounds, ....


TenZen, I just downloaded and tried Archery Companion. It's nice except that there's no preset round for 300/10 ends/3 arrows each ??? I clicked on the Custom round to create one but that feature is not turned on. What's up?


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## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

Beerbudget, on the main screen the bottom right icon is 'rounds' which allows you to set up your custom rounds. That is how I set up my 30 arrow indoor round. Once you set it up there you can then select it from the scoring tab. Hope this helps  I also like the simplicity of Archery Companion, though I'm not opposed to trying other apps.


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## beerbudget (Feb 5, 2011)

mahgnillig said:


> Beerbudget, on the main screen the bottom right icon is 'rounds' which allows you to set up your custom rounds. That is how I set up my 30 arrow indoor round. Once you set it up there you can then select it from the scoring tab. Hope this helps



View attachment 2209495


mahgnillig, I'm in Rounds, there are two tabs, Standard and Custom. The Standard tab has nothing that fits my 300/10/3 match so I'm in Custom and I can see no method to allow inputting data. There are no pull down menus and a long press doesn't do anything either. What am I missing?


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## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

Are there any archery journals out there? I'm a fan of using a pen and a little notebook to fit in my quiver. I can take it out anywhere and not have judges eyeing me funny for having an electronic out at the target.

One of my shooting partners has this archery journal that has pages with pre-printed target faces on them and boxes for end scoring. He has no idea where he got it because he found it when searching through old boxes. He says he might have gotten it from Korea somewhere.


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## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

On my S4 it's the menu soft key to add a round.


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## jvtrain (Sep 11, 2014)

beerbudget said:


> View attachment 2209495
> 
> 
> mahgnillig, I'm in Rounds, there are two tabs, Standard and Custom. The Standard tab has nothing that fits my 300/10/3 match so I'm in Custom and I can see no method to allow inputting data. There are no pull down menus and a long press doesn't do anything either. What am I missing?


Does your phone have a menu soft key? Tapping my menu soft key brings up a "Create Round" panel at the bottom of the screen.


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## beerbudget (Feb 5, 2011)

jvtrain said:


> Does your phone have a menu soft key? Tapping my menu soft key brings up a "Create Round" panel at the bottom of the screen.


Well, well, well, I have an S5 and apparently just learned how to bring back the soft menu that was taken away. I created my Custom round and Archery Companion is now my favorite scoring app. Thanks guys.


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## sixstringer4528 (Feb 28, 2014)

Archery score sheet.


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## beerbudget (Feb 5, 2011)

Next question: is there an app similar in simplicity as Archery Companion but can keep score for multiple archers in the same squad? That would be very helpful.


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## beerbudget (Feb 5, 2011)

Archery Score Sheet is pretty cool too and works for multiple archers. I have the two tools I need. Thanks again.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Do any of these apps have a function where you can map how each specific arrow groups on the face? I number my arrows and I'd like to be able to mark on the face arrow 1-12 and where each arrow hits. Then I'd like to be able to go back and select arrow 1 and where it has hit each end and then arrow 2 and so on so that I can track and see if I have a problem arrow. Can any of these apps do that?


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## sixstringer4528 (Feb 28, 2014)

Archery score sheets.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Huntinsker said:


> *Do any of these apps have a function where you can map how each specific arrow groups on the face?* I number my arrows and I'd like to be able to mark on the face arrow 1-12 and where each arrow hits. Then I'd like to be able to go back and select arrow 1 and where it has hit each end and then arrow 2 and so on so that I can track and see if I have a problem arrow. Can any of these apps do that?


Absolutely. Thanks to the excellent visual scoring data input in ArcherZUpshot it can do reports based on your shooting, including graphic displays by arrow number. This is one of the reasons people put up with AZU's still improving user interface. AZU is availible as a free 500 shot demo, but you'll need the full paid app to use it to do reports going forward. Please note, though, paying for the app unlocks features, it does not remove the sponsor graphics or links from the app.


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## spogshd (Mar 14, 2014)

Score pad, period.


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## spogshd (Mar 14, 2014)

Just a few examples of whats on score pad,also sight marks for different arrow sets. There's nothing it can't do.
Best one I've seen, only on android though.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Warbow said:


> Absolutely. Thanks to the excellent visual scoring data input in ArcherZUpshot it can do reports based on your shooting, including graphic displays by arrow number. This is one of the reasons people put up with AZU's still improving user interface. AZU is availible as a free 500 shot demo, but you'll need the full paid app to use it to do reports going forward. Please note, though, paying for the app unlocks features, it does not remove the sponsor graphics or links from the app.


I think people might like to know how much will it cost once the 500 shot demo is done. Good luck finding that on Google Play or the ArcherZupshot website. It's $20 for the Pro version or $14 for the Upgrade version. I installed the app to find this out. I dislike when companies hide their prices like that. It feels sneaky. Also, there's little, if any information on the differences between the Pro version and the Upgrade version. That also feels like they're trying to hide something.

Now, the $20 (or $14) question: is the app worth the purchase price? I haven't used it yet, so I have no idea. It seems like a lot of folks like it, but I'd be interested to hear more actual users' opinions.

I've been using Artemis Lite and have been pretty happy with it. There is a nag screen that appears after 2000 arrows have been recorded, then you can upgrade to Premium for ~$5. Then you can upgrade from Premium to Coached for another ~$9. Again, you don't see these prices in the Google Play store, but at least you can see them on the website (http://artemis.vapeldoorn.net/) and they tell you what your money gets you. 

-Kent W.


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## bigbadwoolfe (Jan 1, 2013)

Warbow said:


> UI design is tough, especially when working cross platform. It is also the case that due to limited engineering bandwidth developers have to make choices between fixing basics like layout and UI or creating new show stopper features - a problem that occurs even at big companies where features that will advertise well, or look good in a a product demo are given priority over "boring" stuff like fixing the UI.


UI design isn't tough. It definitely isn't tougher than designing the application architecture or implementing it. 

The reason why there is a huge disregard for UI design resulting in terrible user experience is not because product owners have to choose between good UI and cool new features. It's because the developers don't much care to write the UI well the first time, or they just don't know a thing about usability. And they're not forced to do that because good UI won't sell more copies of the app. In a space where all apps look like they're designed by a 2 year old and the workflows only work in an ideal case, if at all, users will go for more features... They just don't get the option to use a well designed app, so might as well get the one with most features. 

However, the first app on the market that offers excellent user experience (not hard) combined with a good feature set (even if limited) and is priced fairly, will pretty much take over overnight.

Which got me thinking, maybe I should go write my own app...


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## ceallred (Nov 25, 2012)

williamskg6 said:


> I think people might like to know how much will it cost once the 500 shot demo is done. Good luck finding that on Google Play or the ArcherZupshot website. It's $20 for the Pro version or $14 for the Upgrade version. I installed the app to find this out. I dislike when companies hide their prices like that. It feels sneaky. Also, there's little, if any information on the differences between the Pro version and the Upgrade version. That also feels like they're trying to hide something.
> 
> Now, the $20 (or $14) question: is the app worth the purchase price? I haven't used it yet, so I have no idea. It seems like a lot of folks like it, but I'd be interested to hear more actual users' opinions.
> 
> ...


I still think this one is far and away better. Same features or more and better UI


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

bigbadwoolfe said:


> UI design isn't tough. It definitely isn't tougher than designing the application architecture or implementing it.


I have to disagree with you on that point. If good UI was easy then it would cost next to nothing to do and everyone would do it. Just because it doesn't take CS degree to do UI doesn't mean it is easy to do right.

Fact is, even multimillion dollar companies with entire departments of UI engineers screw up UI. Windows 8, anybody? The UI on the a recent Cadilac console, uhg, some of the worst design choices I've seen in a while. Bad UI is so common that good experiences stand out, because they are literally exceptional


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

williamskg6 said:


> I think people might like to know how much will it cost once the 500 shot demo is done. Good luck finding that on Google Play or the ArcherZupshot website. It's $20 for the Pro version or $14 for the Upgrade version. I installed the app to find this out. I dislike when companies hide their prices like that. It feels sneaky. Also, there's little, if any information on the differences between the Pro version and the Upgrade version. That also feels like they're trying to hide something.


I just checked the website, the Android Play store and the Apple App store, and you are absolutely right. There is no price listed upfront on any of those pages. While they do clearly mark that the free version is 500 shot demo, there is no clue that the full version is an unusually high price (for a mobile app) of $20. That's not bait and switch, but it is a way to get you to invest your time using the program without clearly stating what your final cost will be if you decide you like it - which makes buying the program a bit like buying a used car, where they hide the final price from you until the very end, after you have invested time into the process. This is something Missing Marble should change, IMO, lest they seem sneaky or underhanded.

As to the differences in versions, I do think that is clear in the app descriptions on the Play Store and on the Apple App store:



> PRO Version: FULL FEATURED VERSION – The Archery Scoring App of Champions!
> 
> PLUS Version: Does not include Cluster Analysis, Numbered Arrows, Integrated Event Timer or eMail.
> 
> Information/support at www.ArcherZUpshot.com.


But, it may not be clear in the in-app purchase page (I bought it a while ago, so I don't remember)



williamskg6 said:


> Now, the $20 (or $14) question: is the app worth the purchase price? I haven't used it yet, so I have no idea. It seems like a lot of folks like it, but I'd be interested to hear more actual users' opinions.


Worth is relative. If AZU were the only game in town, the scarcity could make a higher price worth it if you need the functionality. However, if Artemis can do the same things with a better UI for less money (and keep upgrading the program to stay current with the OSes), then not so much.

Right now, I have sunk costs in AZU. It works OK for me, but it does not delight me.

If I didn't already own it I'd look into the functionality of Artemis first, as it has a lower cost.

Right now AZU is trying to create cloud and social media functionality and coach/student functionality - the problem with that is that with the current UI, I can't recommend AZU without qualification. I can't say, "this program is the greatest, easy to use and inexpensive. Let's all get it and share stuff with it." I like the photo feature that tags photos with the details of what event I'm shooting, but no like the giant, presumptuous AZU logo stamped on ***my*** photo. Also, would like to be able to append text comments to photos, not just tags. So, some of the social media functions I can see being useful, if they allow me to connect with standard social media and not a proprietary, control and $$$ for the developer, system. (Which is the problem I have last time I tried to share a video via Coaches Eye. I just want to upload to my YouTube account, not a proprietary $$$ for Coaches Eye system. And, no, I do not want to join your propritary social media network Coaches Eye).

I can say that one thing AZU has that is good is a Change Log. Not a huge deal, but this is a concept common to software developers that other orgs should take up - ArcheryUSA should keep a change log of rules, NTS, and other things that, well, change at the org so the public can keep track.


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## huckduck (Nov 24, 2014)

MyTargets just update, its not as intuitive to find options, but features a timer and cluster markings


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