# speed?



## CA_Rcher12 (Oct 28, 2004)

don't know and don't care to know.


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## Bowhunter500 (Mar 23, 2007)

I shoot a Hoyt Xtec, 30 1/2" draw at #64...
Super Carbon Hunters w/ 100 grain tips
Cat Whiskers 

I shot last weekend and it was goin 295... got it step up for bow season and them arrows are MOVIN! love it!


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## Lawrence Archer (Feb 5, 2007)

No clue.


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## trapshooter (Feb 14, 2005)

i really dont care. speed thrills silence kills. unless your hunting out west i dont see the need for speed. but speed is cool.

i think im about 220-230fps


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## No.1 Hoyt (Mar 11, 2007)

trapshooter said:


> i really dont care. speed thrills silence kills. unless your hunting out west i dont see the need for speed. but speed is cool.
> 
> i think im about 220-230fps



i accidentally posted on by brothers acount again.


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## Nicky1889 (Jun 22, 2007)

Reflex Ridgeline
27" draw at 50#

= 228fps


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## armyboy (Jul 10, 2007)

i have two bows. ones a fred bear the other is a Mathews legacy. the bears top speed is 285. i think it is going around 250. the legacy's top is 308. i think it is going 290 295, somewhere around there.


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## Irishrobin (Oct 21, 2006)

my 1993 bow @ 50 was goin at 231 fps. i am putting mine through a chrono at the weekend .


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jan 22, 2006)

*What's with the...*

...cynical 'no idea', 'no care', 'not important' posts? He didn't ask anyone how important they felt speed was, and likely doesn't care. Nor does anyone else. Anything other than posting your bow setup parameters and speed is off topic. 

Here's what my Synergy chronoed last week:

71 lb, 29"
468-gr A/C Super Slim .340 arrow
283.7 average fps


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> ...cynical 'no idea', 'no care', 'not important' posts? He didn't ask anyone how important they felt speed was, and likely doesn't care. Nor does anyone else. Anything other than posting your bow setup parameters and speed is off topic.
> 
> Here's what my Synergy chronoed last week:
> 
> ...


That's really rude. Mind others' opinions, if they don't care, then that's what they have to say about they're speed. 

I have no clue what my bows shoot. It hits hard though, and my arrows sure zip. If I can hit what I'm aiming at, I'm happy.


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## Wile_E_Coyote (Jan 22, 2006)

*So let me ensure that I understand...*



kegan said:


> That's really rude. Mind others' opinions, if they don't care, then that's what they have to say about they're speed.
> 
> I have no clue what my bows shoot. It hits hard though, and my arrows sure zip. If I can hit what I'm aiming at, I'm happy.


The original poster asks what speed everyone's shooting, and several posts were either a lecture about speed or a post noting that the poster doesn't care what speed he or she is currently shooting. I'm not sure is a valid response. But "I don't care to know is not necessarily a valid response to the original thread." I find it rude that others have to assert a lecture, or interject their 'opinions,' when unsolicited. However, you apparently feel that my calling attention to the assertion is rude? I don't recall the thread asking people "How do you feel about speed? Do you feel that speed is overrated?" Or have I in some way misinterpreted the posts?


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

take a deep breath and settle down guys 

anyways my speed at 29dl and 55lbs on my victory with 400 grain arrow it was shooting 240fps


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## CA_Rcher12 (Oct 28, 2004)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> ...cynical 'no idea', 'no care', 'not important' posts? He didn't ask anyone how important they felt speed was, and likely doesn't care. Nor does anyone else. Anything other than posting your bow setup parameters and speed is off topic.
> 
> Here's what my Synergy chronoed last week:
> 
> ...


Wish I didn't go more off topic, but I'm just gonna say that I don't know because, well, I don't know. Not trying to be rude or anything. 

Anyway,:focus:


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## kaborkian (May 26, 2007)

Vecrtix XL, 66 lbs, 29", 400 grains, 285 fps


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> The original poster asks what speed everyone's shooting, and several posts were either a lecture about speed or a post noting that the poster doesn't care what speed he or she is currently shooting. I'm not sure is a valid response. But "I don't care to know is not necessarily a valid response to the original thread." I find it rude that others have to assert a lecture, or interject their 'opinions,' when unsolicited. However, you apparently feel that my calling attention to the assertion is rude? I don't recall the thread asking people "How do you feel about speed? Do you feel that speed is overrated?" Or have I in some way misinterpreted the posts?


Directly pointing out others opinion of their speed or speed in general is ridiiculous. If it bothers you, skip it. Telling other's their posts are stupid or ignorant is just *rude*. This is free, open forum, where people can post there OPINIONS on a subject. You can't tell someone not to do somehting if it is straying outside the rigid borders of some imaginary boundry of the original post. 

Sorry everyone, I'm done now.


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## NARLEYHORNS (Jul 7, 2007)

*52# @ 29" Draw .... ?????*

Light weight Draw Bows ....it's comming in "08". Imagine shooting in the XXX-XXX with a 50# bow.  Get ready for some smokin fast-hot bows in "08" from HIGH COUNTRY


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## bigbird2 (Jan 13, 2007)

Fred Bear BTR
67# at 29" DL
478 grn arrows
245 FPS
61 ft.lb of KE

overkill?

godspeed
levi


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## Evinrude (May 31, 2007)

ross cardiac 50 lbs 26 in draw 300 some odd grains 232fps


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## Albertabowhunt (Oct 15, 2006)

guardian 70lb 380 gr arrow.. 28.5 inch draw... going 298-302


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## 2wyoming (Sep 5, 2007)

Cardiac, 313fps 70 ibs, with a 29 in draw.


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## Whitehair (Jul 1, 2005)

Bear Montana - [email protected] / 580 Grns. = 162 FPS


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## rpford53 (Jul 21, 2006)

Xforce 60#, 28" draw, 325 grn arrow =313
Xforce 60#, 28" draw, 378 grn arrow =285
PSE Diablo 70#, 28" draw, 378 grn arrow =270
MOJO 3-D 70#, 28" draw, 376 grn arrow =286


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## PlushHunter (Aug 4, 2004)

Martin Slayr Crackerized 29 1/2 draw 72lbs 315 fps


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## CamSpeed (Sep 20, 2004)

Just chronographed on Saturday, Mathews Switchback XT 29" draw 70 lbs. 440 grain Beman Black Max getting 274 fps. Im happy. Very quite and very accurate.


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## OOPS! (Jul 5, 2006)

My synergy is doing about 288 with 360 grain CX 3-D selects.
Set at 60# 28"dl.


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## Lawrence Archer (Feb 5, 2007)

Bear Instinct 53#, 26"
321 grains arrows; 500's at 7.3 gpi, 4 inch Duravanes.
Overspined by .80(oh well, they fly great).
Tubeless plastic peep, d-loop.

Any clue?


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## CA_Rcher12 (Oct 28, 2004)

Maybe anywhere from 200-250...? :dontknow:


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## whitetail234 (Sep 19, 2005)

Hunting
Jennings CK 4.0 70lbs 29'' shooting instinctive and fingers release, 
525 gr arrow at about 233-235Smokin:wink:

3-D
Hoyt Vetrix XL 65lbs 28.5'' witha 338gr arrow at 298-300


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## deerbuster (Jun 11, 2007)

MY switchback set at 52lbs, with a 26 inch draw was shootin between 245 and 260 about a year ago when i was playin with it quite often, but haven't checked it since i cranked up the poundage.


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## xcreek (Aug 31, 2007)

*fps*

i have a pse firestormx 26 inch draw with 90grain arrow with 85grain point at 230 fps


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## baldybarton (Jan 3, 2007)

moved up to 63# now shooting 253


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## bowhuntin_KS (Dec 21, 2005)

2007 Synergy
71.5#
405 grain maxima hunter
29.5" speed mods
(peep, loop, string leeches)= 312fps


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## Mathews Hunter9 (Sep 16, 2007)

Mathews FX 27 in draw at 265 fps


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## raider_archer (Nov 28, 2006)

Competion Recurve, my first setup is Hoyt Matrix w/ G3 limbs.... 217 fps. 2nd setup is same bow w/ Samick Master limbs @ 221 fps. i shoot ACE arrows.


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## hoyt-tec2011 (Feb 11, 2006)

*me*

well my hunting bow my hoyt v-tec at 58 pounds and 28 inches with 100 grain tips and easten axis 400's is putting out at about 265fps. My competition rig is a hoyt ultra elite at 60 pounds and 28 inches with easten 400 fatboys is throwing them out at 295!!! o ya!! thats hoyt power!:wink:


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## master hunter (Oct 9, 2007)

220 wat bout u?


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## archery146 (Nov 28, 2007)

I just shot my Mathews Outback, with a 4 year old string, Have new winners choice for it. I will try again after the strings are installed. 27" DL, 27" Gold tip XT hunter 5567's with gold tip vanes, 67lb DW. Shot 256fps, and a bare shaft was 267fps. 100 grain field points.

archery146


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

Wile_E_Coyote said:


> ...cynical 'no idea', 'no care', 'not important' posts? He didn't ask anyone how important they felt speed was, and likely doesn't care. Nor does anyone else. Anything other than posting your bow setup parameters and speed is off topic.
> 
> Here's what my Synergy chronoed last week:
> 
> ...


well buddy, no asked for your opinion either. :zip:

sorry guys, had to say something. anyways 

PSE X- Force..... 29inch draw set at 68lbs, im not sure of my arrow weight but the arrows are axis 340's and spitting my arrows out at 332 FPS


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## Deer_Slayer2010 (Jan 28, 2007)

I'm shooting a Mathews Z-max 27.5" 58# draw with around 350 grain arrows, and they were going a little over 240f.p.s. last time I checked.


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## hstubblefield (Feb 16, 2008)

*x-force*

man u must be stout becuse my dad is only shooting 66# and he said it is tough to pull he was shooting 333ibo


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

for 3d i shoot 26 inch drw at 45 lbs 2 fps over the speedlimit with my firestorm x


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## hstubblefield (Feb 16, 2008)

how do u like the firestorm x for 3-D they look alsome for hunting


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## hstubblefield (Feb 16, 2008)

*pse*

how do u like the firestorm x for 3-D they look alsome for hunting


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## Hunterforlife (Feb 7, 2008)

Mathews Drenilan 29inch draw at 70# dont know how fast but puts a deer down.:wink:


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

hstubblefield said:


> man u must be stout becuse my dad is only shooting 66# and he said it is tough to pull he was shooting 333ibo


haha, thanks.... well, i won't lie...... pulling that kinda poundage wasnt good for my sholder, but i got used to it, and i dont have anymore pain. so, i pull it back just fine. 66# and 68# isnt that big of a difference. im pretty sure im pulling 68#, they said i was at the bow shop? hell, i could be pulling 65#, i just dont know it yet. but i thought they said 68#. ahhh too many numbers. all i know is im pulling between 65 and 68. i need to find out! ill do that very soon, and let you know. ( hstubblefield )


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## master hunter (Oct 9, 2007)

master hunter said:


> 220 wat bout u?


i didnt post this!!!!!! i must hav for got to log off and my friend thought it was his acount. my bow is shootin 240 at 40 pounds.


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

hstubblefield said:


> how do u like the firestorm x for 3-D they look alsome for hunting


love it its also more accurate than my indoor bow so im shooting that for hunting 3d and indoor(when i shoot compound). 2 shots with a hooter shooter at 70 m are right on top of eachother. you can get them cheap now cause there dicontinued. if tou want a new one the replacement is a pse tounderbolt.







or you could be cool and shoot recurve


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## Evinrude (May 31, 2007)

231 with hoyt ultratec 45 lbs 264 grain arrows 26 draw length


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## tru-force ss (Mar 25, 2008)

i have 2 bows a old martin bengal that shoots 260 fps and the new PSE x-force ss 290 fps both of those bows are at 26 " draw and 45lbs


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## jake in ga (Jun 1, 2007)

mathews dxt 70# 350 gr. 322


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## rage1 (Jun 29, 2006)

CA_Rcher12 said:


> don't know and don't care to know.


i agree but my 2006 darton tempist 28 inch draw 60 pounds at ibo weight gets about 305


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## hstubblefield (Feb 16, 2008)

my proelite is shooting a 251 with fatboy 500s


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## tru-force ss (Mar 25, 2008)

i am shooting the PSE x-force ss at 26" draw 45lbs and i am gettin about 290 fps


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

update just went to 55 for hogs now im shootin 301 yeah:wink:


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## rascal (Jul 13, 2004)

Airborne 101st, 60#,28" ,302 grain arrow......319


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## thrill_seeker (Feb 2, 2008)

parker buck hunter w/ 250 maximas 25. inches with a 27.5 DL w/ WB


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## whitetailfreak1 (Mar 30, 2008)

my bow shoots 287 
but the way i see it is the faster your bow shoots the faster you are going to miss what ever you are shooting at. so in my opinion speed does not matter


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

*im not sure how this makes any sense*



whitetailfreak1 said:


> my bow shoots 287
> but the way i see it is the faster your bow shoots the faster you are going to miss what ever you are shooting at. so in my opinion speed does not matter




????????????? what? why would it matter if your arrow passes what ever it is your shooting at high speed or slow speed? because either way, your arrow is still going to miss.


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## b18intega (Nov 25, 2007)

yall gota be kidding me

i shoot a YOUTH bow (the edge) and at 50# at 28" get 303fps. with arrows with i dont know how many grains but with a 125 grain tip...... whatever yall are shooting is horriable


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## Elite13 (Mar 11, 2007)

b18intega said:


> yall gota be kidding me
> 
> i shoot a YOUTH bow (the edge) and at 50# at 28" get 303fps. with arrows with i dont know how many grains but with a 125 grain tip...... whatever yall are shooting is horriable


thats like impossible to be shooting that fast with that bow


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## whitetailfreak1 (Mar 30, 2008)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> ????????????? what? why would it matter if your arrow passes what ever it is your shooting at high speed or slow speed? because either way, your arrow is still going to miss.


exactly so why does your bow need to shoot so fast


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

*oh, let me explain.....*



whitetailfreak1 said:


> exactly so why does your bow need to shoot so fast


1. my bow doesnt " need to shoot so fast " it just does. thats not the only reason i bought my bow.
2. im sure you know that animals are capable of " jumping the string " wich means they make a move at the hearing of the string slap. well, with a bow such as mine or any other fast bow, the arrow would be at that animal before the animal had time to react.
3. And speed is another hint of power. because obviously with the same grain arrow shooting out of a fast bow compared to a slow one ( at the same poundege ) the fast bow has more KE. kenetic energy. so, that play a power role as well.


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

b18intega said:


> yall gota be kidding me
> 
> i shoot a YOUTH bow (the edge) and at 50# at 28" get 303fps. with arrows with i dont know how many grains but with a 125 grain tip...... whatever yall are shooting is horriable




your story sounds a little fishy. maybe you should check your numbers once more. And by the way, my bow blows that away, as does most peoples (realistic) FPS numbers.


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## whitetailfreak1 (Mar 30, 2008)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> 1. my bow doesnt " need to shoot so fast " it just does. thats not the only reason i bought my bow.
> 2. im sure you know that animals are capable of " jumping the string " wich means they make a move at the hearing of the string slap. well, with a bow such as mine or any other fast bow, the arrow would be at that animal before the animal had time to react.
> 3. And speed is another hint of power. because obviously with the same grain arrow shooting out of a fast bow compared to a slow one ( at the same poundege ) the fast bow has more KE. kenetic energy. so, that play a power role as well.


some people buy bows just for their speed. and i dont understand why


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## WV hoyt shooter (Feb 10, 2006)

my hoyt vipertec shoots around 320 with 87lb limbs


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## b18intega (Nov 25, 2007)

Elite13 said:


> thats like impossible to be shooting that fast with that bow


i thought that was impossiable too but that is what the ....oh crap what is that thing call..... cronograph said, i didnt belive it at first so i tride three more of them and they all came up saying 303.1, 303.4, 302.4, 303.6, 302.8, so the top speed is around 303


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

b18intega said:


> i thought that was impossiable too but that is what the ....oh crap what is that thing call..... cronograph said, i didnt belive it at first so i tride three more of them and they all came up saying 303.1, 303.4, 302.4, 303.6, 302.8, so the top speed is around 303


i would check your arrow weight just in case because the ibo specs says it shoots 298 28 in 50lbs 250 grain arrow either your arrow is a little light or you got a fast one which could also be to.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> 1. my bow doesnt " need to shoot so fast " it just does. thats not the only reason i bought my bow.
> 2. im sure you know that animals are capable of " jumping the string " wich means they make a move at the hearing of the string slap. well, with a bow such as mine or any other fast bow, the arrow would be at that animal before the animal had time to react.
> 3. And speed is another hint of power. because obviously with the same grain arrow shooting out of a fast bow compared to a slow one ( at the same poundege ) the fast bow has more KE. kenetic energy. so, that play a power role as well.


i dont care how fast your bow shoots sound travels at over 1200 fps meaning that the deer could still easily jump the string so thats not realy a valid arguement


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## Elite13 (Mar 11, 2007)

b18intega said:


> i thought that was impossiable too but that is what the ....oh crap what is that thing call..... cronograph said, i didnt belive it at first so i tride three more of them and they all came up saying 303.1, 303.4, 302.4, 303.6, 302.8, so the top speed is around 303


your chronograph is messed up then... i dont even think it ibo's that high


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

archerykid12 said:


> i dont care how fast your bow shoots sound travels at over 1200 fps meaning that the deer could still easily jump the string so thats not realy a valid arguement



Oh boy here we go, everytime time you see an animal jump the string the arrow is barely missing this animal. right??? and im talkin inches ( as showin repeatedly on the hunting shows). ok, my bows speed and every other " fast bow" " speed bow " makes up for that miss. because if the persons bow who shot at the animal is shooting at an ibo of lets say 290 fps, well my arrow is going 332. so thats a difference of 42 ft per second. so at that speed, especialy at 35 yards or closer my arrow will be there before that animal had time to react. it would be all over in a snap of a finger. and by the way, how many deer do you see jump the string? it happens, but less 50% of the time.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> Oh boy here we go, everytime time you see an animal jump the string the arrow is barely missing this animal. right??? and im talkin inches ( as showin repeatedly on the hunting shows). ok, my bows speed and every other " fast bow" " speed bow " makes up for that miss. because if the persons bow who shot at the animal is shooting at an ibo of lets say 290 fps, well my arrow is going 332. so thats a difference of 42 ft per second. so at that speed, especialy at 35 yards or closer my arrow will be there before that animal had time to react. it would be all over in a snap of a finger. and by the way, how many deer do you see jump the string? it happens, but less 50% of the time.


the difference in 42fps is literally thousandths of a second not enough to make a difference i will try and find the chart to prove my point


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## master hunter (Oct 9, 2007)

gana be gettin a lot more gana bring up my poundage quite a bit, and then i gana put on some speed nocks.


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

archerykid12 said:


> the difference in 42fps is literally thousandths of a second not enough to make a difference i will try and find the chart to prove my point


not enough to make a difference? obviously it is or bow companies wouldnt strive to make fast bows.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> not enough to make a difference? obviously it is or bow companies wouldnt strive to make fast bows.


they strive to make faster bows because people will buy them thinking there magic and will help them and also they make them because you can compare speed easily unlike everything else on bows


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

archerykid12 said:


> they strive to make faster bows because people will buy them thinking there magic and will help them and also they make them because you can compare speed easily unlike everything else on bows


speed doesnt just tell you how fast your arrow is going, it also " as i said before " hences power. these bows are magic!!! not only are companies makeing fast bows, but they are also quiet, vibration free and accurate. they perform alot better than some of your i gues you call them "non magic bows" slower bows should be the proper name. so why not have a bow with more power, faster speeds, quieter and more accurate? you can't think of a good reason for that. and speed bows to help


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> speed doesnt just tell you how fast your arrow is going, it also " as i said before " hences power. these bows are magic!!! not only are companies makeing fast bows, but they are also quiet, vibration free and accurate. they perform alot better than some of your i gues you call them "non magic bows" slower bows should be the proper name. so why not have a bow with more power, faster speeds, quieter and more accurate? you can't think of a good reason for that. and speed bows to help


speed bows have nothing to do with accuracy its the person behind the string. you dont need the power my cousin had a complete pass through on a deer from 20 yards with a 400 grain arrow out of a 45 lbs youth bow. plus i am sure the indians killed plenty of deer shooting longbows with less power than most bows nowadays


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

archerykid12 said:


> speed bows have nothing to do with accuracy its the person behind the string. you dont need the power my cousin had a complete pass through on a deer from 20 yards with a 400 grain arrow out of a 45 lbs youth bow. plus i am sure the indians killed plenty of deer shooting longbows with less power than most bows nowadays


there is alot on the person behind the bow, but if the bow can't stabalize very well, how is supposed to shoot accurate. what if you can't get complete pass through? what if you hit in the front shoulder, well i can tell you this, you might be screwed, but hey not me. my bow has the power to blow right through that sholder. speed bows = power


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## MuzzyMarksman (Jun 16, 2007)

Micro Midas 3 at 40lbs. and 23" last I checked was either 170 or 190 I can't really remember:embara:


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## Twinsfan (Aug 9, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> there is alot on the person behind the bow, but if the bow can't stabalize very well, how is supposed to shoot accurate. what if you can't get complete pass through? what if you hit in the front shoulder, well i can tell you this, you might be screwed, but hey not me. my bow has the power to blow right through that sholder. speed bows = power


boy it really sounds like you no what you are talking about. you should maybe be on the PSE prostaff. o thats right they want people that know what they are talking about.:zip: post this in the general and maybe somebody can talk some sense into you.


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

Twinsfan said:


> boy it really sounds like you no what you are talking about. you should maybe be on the PSE prostaff. o thats right they want people that know what they are talking about.:zip: post this in the general and maybe somebody can talk some sense into you.


ha, wow! hey? maybe you should do it if you're so smart. Oh wait!!!! your the kinda guy the stands behined the people and yells senseless comments, and you're probably the guy that gets slapped around by everyone. i dont wanna hear your crap, don't come in on others aruguements, because know im going to have to say rude things to you. and that could have been avoided if you hadnt of added your stupid and meaningless input. god I honestly wish we had war room fourm here, because i know im going to get a talkin from the moderators for saying that.

hey, point out something i said and prove me wrong, prove me WRONG!!!!! and then ill be glad to listen to you. i've shot many animals with bows, and none of them have jumped the string. and speed does equal power. so until then keep your meaningless comments to yourself and drowned yourself in your so wanna be almighty knowledge. IF you have any!

hey moderators? just sticking up for myself!!!


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## bigram (Mar 26, 2007)

I've got to agree....42 fps isnt going to save you on the animal....if my " not magic bow" is going to miss by a few inches on a deer jumping....then ure bow will miss by a lil bit less....especially at 35 yards. 

Yes...speed does equal power....but if u have a light arrow...and i have a heavy arrow....then it'll be a diff story...plus my arrow would be less liekly of breaking.... and before you said the " magic bow " will be more accurate? then why are you worried about a shoulder shot? put it in the boiler room and tada!

Sorry to hijack the thread!

Check my signature for my speed...arrows at 283 grains!


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

bigram said:


> I've got to agree....42 fps isnt going to save you on the animal....if my " not magic bow" is going to miss by a few inches on a deer jumping....then ure bow will miss by a lil bit less....especially at 35 yards.
> 
> Yes...speed does equal power....but if u have a light arrow...and i have a heavy arrow....then it'll be a diff story...plus my arrow would be less liekly of breaking.... and before you said the " magic bow " will be more accurate? then why are you worried about a shoulder shot? put it in the boiler room and tada!
> 
> ...



you're using all these "what if" scenarios. who said i was worried about a sholder shot. that has nothing to do with your bow being accurate or not. say i can't get a perfect vidal shot, hey, if he's p&y you bet your ass ill take the sholder shot. and id like to have a bow that has the power to do it.
and i don't know why you say 42ft isnt a big difference, cause it's almost 15
yards. so think about it, if your arrow is barely missing, lets say high by two inches. that deer wasnt down two inches 15 yards before your arrow got there. my arrow was there 15 yards before yours, therefor the deer was still stand in normal position. 

and i never said the magic bow will be more accurate! i said that bow comapnies are makeing bows these days that are fast, quiet, vibrationfree, and ACCURATE.


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## Elite13 (Mar 11, 2007)

Hes right speed does equal kinetic energy which you need to bust through a shoulder


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Elite13 said:


> Hes right speed does equal kinetic energy which you need to bust through a shoulder


I have to say something. KE is a rifleman's term. Shock. If you were shooting a chisel point, or a blunt, then you would need alot of KE. If you are shootign a sharp cut on contact head, then momentum is your beast. IE a heavy arrow. Men, shooting longbows, have managed several kill shots through the head. If you watch Hill's old videos, you'll see how slow his arrows fly- and he killed alligators, crocs, boars, and even a bear this way. Bows and rifles are two veyr different creatures. Broadheads cut- not slam. Speed isn't power if you're using rediculously light arrows. Any of you who dispute this fact should read Hunting with the Bow and Arrow by Saxton Pope- the founder of the scoring system so veyr many of you use. He goes into many of these things in depth- long before the compound was ever thought of.

Of course, none of this matter if your bow is quiet and your shot is well placed. Western Coast Nativce Americans consistently took deer with light, short bows (40#, 42") and light arrows (300-400 grains). They just made up for the weakness of their gear by getting close- within a couple yards.


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## bowhunter1347 (May 23, 2007)

well, passed through a doe this year and I could only see the fletchings, so, plenty fast enough for me:darkbeer:


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

kegan said:


> I have to say something. KE is a rifleman's term. Shock. If you were shooting a chisel point, or a blunt, then you would need alot of KE. If you are shootign a sharp cut on contact head, then momentum is your beast. IE a heavy arrow. Men, shooting longbows, have managed several kill shots through the head. If you watch Hill's old videos, you'll see how slow his arrows fly- and he killed alligators, crocs, boars, and even a bear this way. Bows and rifles are two veyr different creatures. Broadheads cut- not slam. Speed isn't power if you're using rediculously light arrows. Any of you who dispute this fact should read Hunting with the Bow and Arrow by Saxton Pope- the founder of the scoring system so veyr many of you use. He goes into many of these things in depth- long before the compound was ever thought of.
> 
> Of course, none of this matter if your bow is quiet and your shot is well placed. Western Coast Nativce Americans consistently took deer with light, short bows (40#, 42") and light arrows (300-400 grains). They just made up for the weakness of their gear by getting close- within a couple yards.



no see you're wrong. or somewhat wrong. for one, KE is not just a riflemens term. broadheads also SLAM..... they dont just cutt into the bone, they shatter and slam into it. 
Anything can shoot through the head, the head isnt as thick as the shoulder blade.
the "rediculously light arrow" does just as good of a job putting animals down if not better than heavy arrows.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kegan said:


> I have to say something. KE is a rifleman's term. Shock. If you were shooting a chisel point, or a blunt, then you would need alot of KE. If you are shootign a sharp cut on contact head, then momentum is your beast. IE a heavy arrow. Men, shooting longbows, have managed several kill shots through the head. If you watch Hill's old videos, you'll see how slow his arrows fly- and he killed alligators, crocs, boars, and even a bear this way. Bows and rifles are two veyr different creatures. Broadheads cut- not slam. Speed isn't power if you're using rediculously light arrows. Any of you who dispute this fact should read Hunting with the Bow and Arrow by Saxton Pope- the founder of the scoring system so veyr many of you use. He goes into many of these things in depth- long before the compound was ever thought of.
> 
> Of course, none of this matter if your bow is quiet and your shot is well placed. Western Coast Nativce Americans consistently took deer with light, short bows (40#, 42") and light arrows (300-400 grains). They just made up for the weakness of their gear by getting close- within a couple yards.


kegan dont bother argueing with him he thinks hes right and there is no convincing him other wise


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

archerykid12 said:


> kegan dont bother argueing with him he thinks hes right and there is no convincing him other wise


ok Archery Kid here is your chance! prove me wrong at anything i said... please do, because you have to do it at anytime during the duration of this arguement.



Archery Kid is wrong, and there is no convincing him other wise.:wink:


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> ok Archery Kid here is your chance! prove me wrong at anything i said... please do, because you have to do it at anytime during the duration of this arguement.
> 
> 
> 
> Archery Kid is wrong, and there is no convincing him other wise.:wink:


i am am over this arguement 

plus i am happy i just sold my hoyt and bought a bowtech guardian so nothing matters anymore


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## completepassthru (Feb 3, 2008)

07 tribute 71# 29in. draw-356gr. maxima moving at 316fps


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

archerykid12 said:


> i am am over this arguement
> 
> plus i am happy i just sold my hoyt and bought a bowtech guardian so nothing matters anymore


well, at least that was a smart move. just my opinion


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> well, at least that was a smart move. just my opinion


we can just agree to disagree


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

archerykid12 said:


> we can just agree to disagree


so be it.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> no see you're wrong. or somewhat wrong. for one, KE is not just a riflemens term. broadheads also SLAM..... they dont just cutt into the bone, they shatter and slam into it.
> Anything can shoot through the head, the head isnt as thick as the shoulder blade.
> the "rediculously light arrow" does just as good of a job putting animals down if not better than heavy arrows.


Read the whole thing- KE is for those who use chisel point broadheads and other ones that aren't cut-on-contact. Sharp cut on contact fixed blade heads _do_ cut through green bows. Chisel points slam. They were developed for compound bows shooting high KE... and low momentum. 

And my brother gave me this example- say you have a feather and a rock. The feather is going 300 mph, the rock about 80. You hold up your hands to stop both- which would be harder to stop? Tghe feather will go farther, but the rock will be harder to stop.

You're not wrong, but niether am I. We're splitting hairs on making _mistakes_ here. Provided you make a good shot, none of this matters. A sharp broadhead and an accurate arrow is all it comes down to.

archerykid12- weren't you telling the truth


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

kegan said:


> Read the whole thing- KE is for those who use chisel point broadheads and other ones that aren't cut-on-contact. Sharp cut on contact fixed blade heads _do_ cut through green bows. Chisel points slam. They were developed for compound bows shooting high KE... and low momentum.
> 
> And my brother gave me this example- say you have a feather and a rock. The feather is going 300 mph, the rock about 80. You hold up your hands to stop both- which would be harder to stop? Tghe feather will go farther, but the rock will be harder to stop.
> 
> ...




no Kegan........ you plainly said that KE is a riflemens term. and that's why im saying you're wrong. A rock and a feather aren't even comparable, now a 300 grain and a 400 grain arrow are little closer. Look at rifle balistics........ the army is currently using brand new .416 cal sniper rifles, not completely replacing the .50 cal but it is slowly. the .416 cal is a smaller bullet, mass and volume, it is throwen out of the rifle quicker than the big .50cal and is harder hitting. so the theory about having a heavier arrow with a broadhead could be better is somewhat true, but not completely true. i might shoot a lighter arrow than someone ( lets say as an example 345 vs 400 ) but my bows power ( KE ) makes up for it.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

http://bucklemke.com/ke/ke.php
http://bucklemke.com/ke/ke.php

ok top one is with a 400 grain arrow from an x force 
second one is 345 grain arrow everything the same which one has more ke


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

well, that's an easy one....... the 400 grain will. and yes, you proved me wrong on that one................. well kinda................ cause' this isn't about my bow shooting a 400grain arrow coming from my x force. this is about ( and it all depends on the two bows set up ) my x foce with 345 vs a bow that doesnt match my bow at all. speed, poundage, arrow weight, and draw lenght. because there are a few people that think with a heavier arrow, the better off. They think that even if there bow is shooting at 45# and thats not true. id be wiling to bet Archerykid, that if you were shooting a 400 grain arrow out of your bow vs my bow with a 345, my bow has more KE.

i did your calcs, and came to find out that with both arrow weights coming from my bow, the 400 grain arrow only had about 2% more KE than the 345.

but ill give you props man, great try..... im looking forward to your reply to this.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

this will be about what my guardian will shooting
http://bucklemke.com/ke/ke.php

28 inch draw 70lbs 400 grain arrow


http://thearcheryhut.com/calculators.php the bottome of this page has reccomended ke for certain animals notice deer reccomended is only 25 to 40 and big game like elk are 50 to 65 lbs of ke so i think we are both good for any animal in the US


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

25# for Deer???? man, where did they get that number? but, yes we are good. although i don't agree with bowhunting elk with anything under 65#.............

i've seen it first hand the last day of the hunt, where a buddy of mine shot a cow elk with a 60# bow in the shoulder, we tracked for about 8 hrs and never found her. so we went and looked the day after the hunt ended, just for reasurance and saw her bedded down. luckly game and fish let him finish her off.

not bad on the KE.........yours is less than mine. but yours is good.


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## Twinsfan (Aug 9, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> 25# for Deer???? man, where did they get that number? but, yes we are good.
> 
> um whats, your ( weight on string? )


 he went to bed but it is around 15gr or so


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

Twinsfan said:


> he went to bed but it is around 15gr or so



look above, i got the calcs already. thanks tho.....


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## hoytboy101 (Dec 17, 2007)

I don't really care about how fast my bow shoots because as long as i make a good shot it doesn't matter.


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## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> 25# for Deer???? man, where did they get that number? but, yes we are good. although i don't agree with bowhunting elk with anything under 65#.............
> 
> i've seen it first hand the last day of the hunt, where a buddy of mine shot a cow elk with a 60# bow in the shoulder, we tracked for about 8 hrs and never found her. so we went and looked the day after the hunt ended, just for reasurance and saw her bedded down. luckly game and fish let him finish her off.
> 
> not bad on the KE.........yours is less than mine. but yours is good.


read in the second link i posted i wouldnt shoot a deer but thats minimum needed to kill a deer


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

i read it........ and it's complete BS.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I'm not talking 345 and 400 grains- that's nothing. I'm talking 700-900 grains. So yes, a rock and a feather are a good example, between my arrows and yours. Most traditional archer's shoot 10 grains for every pound of bow weight. Bow speed x bow speed x arrow weight / 457280 (I think- I lent the book that had the exact number out). Here, shooting a slightly quicker bow would give you more KE... but with a slower bow, heavier arrows not only give you the edge in KE, but also carry much greater momentum. For a rifle, since the speed is so great, offering up some bullet weight to get much more momentum, you would get more KE than using a slightly heavier bullet. 

But again, an arrow cuts... a bullet does not. You're not shooting deer with a blunt, nor are you trying to cause shock. You're trying to get an arrow to slice a lung and heart. 

Besides, rifles were invented to kill people. Bows were invented to kill food. Trying to make a bow shoot like a gun is taking several steps backwards.


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

kegan said:


> I'm not talking 345 and 400 grains- that's nothing. I'm talking 700-900 grains. So yes, a rock and a feather are a good example, between my arrows and yours. Most traditional archer's shoot 10 grains for every pound of bow weight. Bow speed x bow speed x arrow weight / 457280 (I think- I lent the book that had the exact number out). Here, shooting a slightly quicker bow would give you more KE... but with a slower bow, heavier arrows not only give you the edge in KE, but also carry much greater momentum. For a rifle, since the speed is so great, offering up some bullet weight to get much more momentum, you would get more KE than using a slightly heavier bullet.
> 
> But again, an arrow cuts... a bullet does not. You're not shooting deer with a blunt, nor are you trying to cause shock. You're trying to get an arrow to slice a lung and heart.
> 
> Besides, rifles were invented to kill people. Bows were invented to kill food. Trying to make a bow shoot like a gun is taking several steps backwards.




345-400 is nothing???? ok, do you want to get your 700-900 grain arrows in your bow vs them with my bow? if thats the case ill be glad to do it. plus carbon arrows are alot stronger than those wooden ones. same grain wise.
Also, bullets do cut........ and explode, obviously you've never shot an animal with a gun and gutted it, and came to find that the bullets ripped up everything in it's path. Also, rifles werent not made just to kill people, they are used for hunting as well, if you havent learned that by now. bows are used for not only hunting, but they were used to kill people. ( indians )
so don't feed me that crap, im begining to think you're a little high strong on whole Archery thing. and id like you to explain to me how we've even come close to makeing a bow like a gun........... specs wise.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> 345-400 is nothing???? ok, do you want to get your 700-900 grain arrows in your bow vs them with my bow? if thats the case ill be glad to do it. plus carbon arrows are alot stronger than those wooden ones. same grain wise.
> Also, bullets do cut........ and explode, obviously you've never shot an animal with a gun and gutted it, and came to find that the bullets ripped up everything in it's path. Also, rifles werent not made just to kill people, they are used for hunting as well, if you havent learned that by now. bows are used for not only hunting, but they were used to kill people. ( indians )
> so don't feed me that crap, im begining to think you're a little high strong on whole Archery thing. and id like you to explain to me how we've even come close to makeing a bow like a gun........... specs wise.


Whoops- meant the difference in weight. You're speaking of 55 grain difference- I'm talking about 200 grain difference. And I've shot carbons from my bow. Didn't like them. Highly doubt your bow would be able to shootn my arrows- not because they can't take the forsce, but because your bow is crafted to shoot those little ones. Carbons are only stronger if they weighed the same. I'd never shoot somehting so small, as they wouldn't even be spined for my bow. And I've absolutely destroyed a batch of carbon arrows with a 35# bow, while I still have the same two blunt arrows of 3/8" hickory shot from an 80# longbow, after shooting rocks, sticks, trees, metal, jsut about everything. 
Bullets don't cut- the simply tear through. Good lord, they have no edge. And yes, guns were devised for war. They just carried over into hunting because it made killing so easy, there is little other benefiet. They were made in Europe for war. It's what removed the longbow from England- and at that point that's all they concerened themselves with. Archery, however, came about as a need to kill smaller, lighter game for food. Several tribes of *Native Americans* actually believed that shooting a man in battle with a bow was cowardly- though the Plains used the bow extensively for war, along with hunting (war came after... no buffulo, no life). Even the rifle came about due to the civil war. Obviously, you believe all that nice garbage people say all over the place. I'm not the one who's spouting crap here. I've studied both the old and the new of archery out of a love of the sport. You seem as much a rifleman as an archer. No wonder your view is distorted. And how is the compound like a gun? HA! Ke, sights, trigger releases, more and more they're being changed. They actually have "bows" now that are more or less vertical crossbows.


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

kegan said:


> Whoops- meant the difference in weight. You're speaking of 55 grain difference- I'm talking about 200 grain difference. And I've shot carbons from my bow. Didn't like them. Highly doubt your bow would be able to shootn my arrows- not because they can't take the forsce, but because your bow is crafted to shoot those little ones. Carbons are only stronger if they weighed the same. I'd never shoot somehting so small, as they wouldn't even be spined for my bow. And I've absolutely destroyed a batch of carbon arrows with a 35# bow, while I still have the same two blunt arrows of 3/8" hickory shot from an 80# longbow, after shooting rocks, sticks, trees, metal, jsut about everything.
> Bullets don't cut- the simply tear through. Good lord, they have no edge. And yes, guns were devised for war. They just carried over into hunting because it made killing so easy, there is little other benefiet. They were made in Europe for war. It's what removed the longbow from England- and at that point that's all they concerened themselves with. Archery, however, came about as a need to kill smaller, lighter game for food. Several tribes of *Native Americans* actually believed that shooting a man in battle with a bow was cowardly- though the Plains used the bow extensively for war, along with hunting (war came after... no buffulo, no life). Even the rifle came about due to the civil war. Obviously, you believe all that nice garbage people say all over the place. I'm not the one who's spouting crap here. I've studied both the old and the new of archery out of a love of the sport. You seem as much a rifleman as an archer. No wonder your view is distorted. And how is the compound like a gun? HA! Ke, sights, trigger releases, more and more they're being changed. They actually have "bows" now that are more or less vertical crossbows.



hey, id be glad to meet you somewhere and shoot your wooden arrows out of my bow. and ill show how much more KE mine will produce. and those wooden arrows are cheap crap! come on!!!!!!! one shot skipping threw the forest, and you will never beable to shoot it again. they crack, split, spilnter, and freay. crap

And by the way, i believe the first gun was made in spain actually. YOU are the one spouting BS here, for one, bullets cut!!!!! i have a mushrumed bullet right here next to me, and swear if you were to run your finger down the edge of it, you would be cut. bottom line is..... you've never killed a big game animal with a rifle, so in a scense...... HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW?? you've never seen first hand. but let me be like you " you must believe all the garbage people feed you" Kid? books can lie! so go do some discovering..... and you act like hunting with a rifle is bad, to tell you the truth, it's much more efficant than hunting with a bow. i hunt with a bow because it's a challenge......... and it's fun. i also hunt with a rifle. AND THATS NOT A BAD THING. as you put it out to be. 
are you really gonna be so high strong to say that sights, releases..... are like a gun. Whatever you wanna think buddy..... that kind stuff has been around for a while now. and your buddy...... tred bartta? i think thats how you spell it, ya he uses a compound as well....... ooooh nooooo..... sorry to bust your bubble. OH and don't feed me your crossbow crap! crossbows have been around since BC. 

looks like you're the disorted one.:zip:


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## Elite13 (Mar 11, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> hey, id be glad to meet you somewhere and shoot your wooden arrows out of my bow. and ill show how much more KE mine will produce. and those wooden arrows are cheap crap! come on!!!!!!! one shot skipping threw the forest, and you will never beable to shoot it again. they crack, split, spilnter, and freay. crap
> 
> And by the way, i believe the first gun was made in spain actually. YOU are the one spouting BS here, for one, bullets cut!!!!! i have a mushrumed bullet right here next to me, and swear if you were to run your finger down the edge of it, you would be cut. bottom line is..... you've never killed a big game animal with a rifle, so in a scense...... HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW?? you've never seen first hand. but let me be like you " you must believe all the garbage people feed you" Kid? books can lie! so go do some discovering..... and you act like hunting with a rifle is bad, to tell you the truth, it's much more efficant than hunting with a bow. i hunt with a bow because it's a challenge......... and it's fun. i also hunt with a rifle. AND THATS NOT A BAD THING. as you put it out to be.
> are you really gonna be so high strong to say that sights, releases..... are like a gun. Whatever you wanna think buddy..... that kind stuff has been around for a while now. and your buddy...... tred bartta? i think thats how you spell it, ya he uses a compound as well....... ooooh nooooo..... sorry to bust your bubble. OH and don't feed me your crossbow crap! crossbows have been around since BC.
> ...



Tred Barta shoots a long bow not a compound


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

Elite13 said:


> Tred Barta shoots a long bow not a compound



read the whole thing. "he shoots a compound as well" i saw a show where he hunted blacktail in british columbia with a compound.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> hey, id be glad to meet you somewhere and shoot your wooden arrows out of my bow. and ill show how much more KE mine will produce. and those wooden arrows are cheap crap! come on!!!!!!! one shot skipping threw the forest, and you will never beable to shoot it again. they crack, split, spilnter, and freay. crap
> 
> And by the way, i believe the first gun was made in spain actually. YOU are the one spouting BS here, for one, bullets cut!!!!! i have a mushrumed bullet right here next to me, and swear if you were to run your finger down the edge of it, you would be cut. bottom line is..... you've never killed a big game animal with a rifle, so in a scense...... HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW?? you've never seen first hand. but let me be like you " you must believe all the garbage people feed you" Kid? books can lie! so go do some discovering..... and you act like hunting with a rifle is bad, to tell you the truth, it's much more efficant than hunting with a bow. i hunt with a bow because it's a challenge......... and it's fun. i also hunt with a rifle. AND THATS NOT A BAD THING. as you put it out to be.
> are you really gonna be so high strong to say that sights, releases..... are like a gun. Whatever you wanna think buddy..... that kind stuff has been around for a while now. and your buddy...... tred bartta? i think thats how you spell it, ya he uses a compound as well....... ooooh nooooo..... sorry to bust your bubble. OH and don't feed me your crossbow crap! crossbows have been around since BC.
> ...


Cheap crap? Ha! I spend hours making my arrows (that's right pal, making). I've shot through metal, wood and stone. And they keep kicking. Ever shot a hickory arrow before? I didn't think so. And I have killed big game with a rifle- twice. Neither one cut, but bruised and destroyed the meat. So that's how the hell I know. A rifle is not morre efficient than a bow. The shock drops it quicker... but hardly cleaner. Get over it.

I'm not saying they're bad, just easier. Make it so any fool can walk itno the store and for eight hundred dollars walk away with somehting that takes half as much skill as the older methods. Of course, they got to be easy enough that the becamse overwhelmingly popular. Of course, since nobody uses the old means, they must be less efficient. Right. Gimme a break. Tred Barta is an idiot, so don't put me in the same category as him. His an arrogant blowhard who uses manufactured gear just like the rest. Hardly "hunting the hard way".

I'm not distorted- you are. Nor will I continue on with this crap. I've had these arguments hundreds of times with people like you, and frankly, I haven't the energy to waste on it anymore. I'm tired of having ignorance roared at me by people who believe the same old crap that's been spewed all over the place by idiots for centuries. Honestly, there is nothing for me to gain arguing with you. You've obvisouly only been showed one path, and refuse to deter from it. I usually like to be able to see both sides, but these arguements force me to stick to only one, which is no way to grow. Obviously.

You can keep talking, but I'm not looking at this thread anymore.


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## armyboy (Jul 10, 2007)

kegan said:


> Cheap crap? Ha! I spend hours making my arrows (that's right pal, making). I've shot through metal, wood and stone. And they keep kicking. Ever shot a hickory arrow before? I didn't think so. And I have killed big game with a rifle- twice. Neither one cut, but bruised and destroyed the meat. So that's how the hell I know. A rifle is not morre efficient than a bow. The shock drops it quicker... but hardly cleaner. Get over it.
> 
> I'm not saying they're bad, just easier. Make it so any fool can walk itno the store and for eight hundred dollars walk away with somehting that takes half as much skill as the older methods. Of course, they got to be easy enough that the becamse overwhelmingly popular. Of course, since nobody uses the old means, they must be less efficient. Right. Gimme a break. Tred Barta is an idiot, so don't put me in the same category as him. His an arrogant blowhard who uses manufactured gear just like the rest. Hardly "hunting the hard way".
> 
> ...



well i just read through this thing and have to say, YOU BOTH WRONG. 
1. wooden arrows where the first arrows ever made and they are still around for other reasons other then they're cheap and worth crap! wood arrows are made for trad bows, carbon for compound, there is a big differences between the two bows. 
2. bows where made for war long before guns ( ie. middle ages... ever seen brave heart?) but yes guns where also made for war....anything wrong with that???? 
3. the reason that a bullets bruise and destroy meat is shot placement and not the bullet, but curing the meat. when shooting with bows and guns in the lungs, while the meat is curing the blood is stuck in the cartilage rotting the blood and the meat surrounding. 
4. guns are a great way of taking big game. no idiot can just shoot a deer with a gun. it takes a lot of skill and practice. i missed a deer this year with my 270 win because i jerked the trigger, blinked, jumped, and thought oh ****. the deer was 10-15 yards away.


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

kegan said:


> Cheap crap? Ha! I spend hours making my arrows (that's right pal, making). I've shot through metal, wood and stone. And they keep kicking. Ever shot a hickory arrow before? I didn't think so. And I have killed big game with a rifle- twice. Neither one cut, but bruised and destroyed the meat. So that's how the hell I know. A rifle is not morre efficient than a bow. The shock drops it quicker... but hardly cleaner. Get over it.
> 
> I'm not saying they're bad, just easier. Make it so any fool can walk itno the store and for eight hundred dollars walk away with somehting that takes half as much skill as the older methods. Of course, they got to be easy enough that the becamse overwhelmingly popular. Of course, since nobody uses the old means, they must be less efficient. Right. Gimme a break. Tred Barta is an idiot, so don't put me in the same category as him. His an arrogant blowhard who uses manufactured gear just like the rest. Hardly "hunting the hard way".
> 
> ...




Well sorry Kegan, but you waste your time MAKEING cheap arrows! manufactured arrows, weather they are carbon are wooden will always be better than home made. the companies have down to an art. so, quit thinking you're so special because you make your own gear. jesus give me a break......... BULLETS CUT FOR GOD SAKE!!!!! and YES guns are much more effiient than bows are! if bows are so much better kegan, than why aren't are our troops using bows???? oh, because you think guns just shock? my ass they do..... they destroy anything in thier path.
And why are you saying thier is no skill involved???? i could be like you, and go waste hours on end trying to make a bow, and then when it's all said and done, i go to pull it back and the pos snaps on me........ what a waste of life.

tred barta is an idiot??? he's accomplished things in his life that you will never come close too. his "manufactured" equipment blows away your "special homemade stuff". don't be angury cause the guy is a badass. 

( hardly the hunting way )??? what? hey my cheap manufactured crap has done the job for me buddy. where the hell is your elk antelope and deer........? what don't have any? ya, i thought so....... i go through the same stuff you do! why are you going to stop talking kegan? because im not falling for your bs? get a hold of yourself, you are to high strong on tradition bows. they are fun..... but they arent better. hey? plus don't you make your bows and arrows with modern equipment????? hahah, hardly the hunting way!


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

man u guys gotta quit. why sit here and argue when you could shoot these bows that u are always braggin about

by the way my 55 lb firestorm x with x weave pro 200 will blow through a cinder block(i did it yesterday) at 45 yrds so ha


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## thrill_seeker (Feb 2, 2008)

Yea its looks like a one big cat fight if your gunna fight over all of it just go shoot settle it that way and if that doesnt help ,shut up, suck it up and take it like the men you should be.


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

thrill_seeker said:


> Yea its looks like a one big cat fight if your gunna fight over all of it just go shoot settle it that way and if that doesnt help ,shut up, suck it up and take it like the men you should be.


hey man, i offered to do a shoot out! but, i guess he didn't want any part of that.


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> hey man, i offered to do a shoot out! but, i guess he didn't want any part of that.


buddy, just give it a rest and either shoot or do spts


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## kaibab-hunter74 (Dec 11, 2006)

i know man, sorry........... im going to go get on x box live for a while.


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## master hunter (Oct 9, 2007)

i did my science fair on speed and kinetic energy.


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

kaibab-hunter74 said:


> i know man, sorry........... im going to go get on x box live for a while.


thats a starti guess


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## Xcreekarchery1 (Aug 7, 2007)

master hunter said:


> i did my science fair on speed and kinetic energy.


really thats exactly what i did but with lbs factored in lbs to:secret:


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## LtlRushnArchr30 (Nov 3, 2007)

08 Firecat 27.5 inch draw 60.5lb, 315g A/C/C 

317 FPS!!!


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