# ASA - Senior Known!!!



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

WHAT??? YOU MEAN I'M GONNA DIE?? WHEN?? HOW??? OH NO!!! :mg:

I figure I couldn't die until I paid off all my credit cards...that's why I figured I'd live forever...you sure spoiled that one. 

A known class for seniors would open up a known class for some of those guys shooting senior open now. Be interesting to see if ASA is hidin that in the crystal ball.


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

I am reasonably sure its going to happen. 45 max class. Definitely amateur.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Tallcatt said:


> I am reasonably sure its going to happen. 45 max class. Definitely amateur.


Any info as to age restrictions?


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Same as Sr. Open and Sr. Hunter.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

:becky:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Hopefully it will attract new shooters and not simply draw folks from the existing classes.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> Hopefully it will attract new shooters and not simply draw folks from the existing classes.


It will. Just like K45 and K50 it will take a few years for it to build up to a high attendance rate. There are a *lot* more folks out there with the time and money to play the game that are over 50 than under 40! Senior Known will be a good class for guys that never had the time and/or money for competitive 3D when they were younger so they never developed their yardage guessing skills. 

As it stands now not only does a newbie older guy have to learn target archery he has to also develop yardage guessing skills at the same time. Just how long does it take for a newbie to develop decently consistent yardage guessing skills? A Senior Known class is a no brainer after seeing how K45 and K50 have done. However, like I said previously it will take a few seasons the for the class to have a larger number of archers. I am not certain I will shoot Senior K. 

If you are over 50 and shot out of K45 will you be allowed to shoot Senior Known?


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> It will. Just like K45 and K50 it will take a few years for it to build up to a high attendance rate. There are a *lot* more folks out there with the time and money to play the game that are over 50 than under 40! Senior Known will be a good class for guys that never had the time and/or money for competitive 3D when they were younger so they never developed their yardage guessing skills.
> 
> As it stands now not only does a newbie older guy have to learn target archery he has to also develop yardage guessing skills at the same time. Just how long does it take for a newbie to develop decently consistent yardage guessing skills? A Senior Known class is a no brainer after seeing how K45 and K50 have done. However, like I said previously it will take a few seasons the for the class to have a larger number of archers. I am not certain I will shoot Senior K.
> 
> If you are over 50 and shot out of K45 will you be allowed to shoot Senior Known?


If you shot out of k45 and they have a k45 known senior I would think you would not be allowed
But we will see


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## elkhunter (Jun 7, 2002)

First, it has to be approved as a new class, and I have heard nothing formal about it --- other than they are taking a "look" at it, and a lot of speculation by some shooters about it.

As for yardage estimating, I am finding out, that good yardage judging disappears about as fast, as it took to learn when I was young. Actually, it just took the time involved between the end of last season, and the beginning of this season, and 73 is on my doorstep.


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## va MTN MAN (Jan 24, 2003)

Next you will want a Senior Know under 5' 9":wink:


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

I'll be switching, fer sure!


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Well I would like it.but after winning money at the classic in senior pro.i will be locked in for 2015


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

If they do go with a senior known it should be 50 yards max. You're taking the judging out of it so in order to gin it up taking it to 50 yards will put some value to it. I love seeing those kids have to sweat it a bit.


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## elkhunter (Jun 7, 2002)

They probably should have both a "right handed class", and a "left handed class" to really make it fair though --- I agree, 50yds should be the magic number.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> If they do go with a senior known it should be 50 yards max. You're taking the judging out of it so in order to gin it up taking it to 50 yards will put some value to it. I love seeing those kids have to sweat it a bit.





elkhunter said:


> They probably should have both a "right handed class", and a "left handed class" to really make it fair though --- I agree, 50yds should be the magic number.


I agree on the 50 yard part. But I also think it is most important that the class "fit" within the ranges and classes currently available.


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## lknchoppers (Jun 13, 2008)

I would like to get into that class. I personally would like it to be 45 yards max. I would like to start attending some of the ASA ProAm events again.


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

45 yard max


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

45 yard max has how many classes now? i'm thinkin' open b, open a, k45. what am i missing? i guess known senior at 45 could shoot with the K45 but that's getting to be a pretty big class.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

menopause, dementia and depends. Jeez, I thought old farts would have some fortitude and want to shoot unknown. I have no hope for America anymore because if this is the values theyre passing on to theyre grand kids, Hunting will be outlawed by 2020


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Pincher said:


> menopause, dementia and depends. Jeez, I thought old farts would have some fortitude and want to shoot unknown. I have no hope for America anymore because if this is the values theyre passing on to theyre grand kids, Hunting will be outlawed by 2020


The Known yardage thing is another attempt to grab some competitors, not detract from the sport. There are many that don't shoot 3D because of not being able to judge yardage. It's been a few years, early 2006, I sat in a IAA meeting. I was then a Central Board member. Two members were trying to get the 3D State Championship with all known yardage. The Motion came, but it failed. That same year, 2006, late summer at another meeting the 3D Championship was eliminated. I didn't run for another term, let my NFAA membership expire and our club did not renew with the NFAA/IAA.

3 years ago ASA Federation rules still had 50/50 for all state competitors except for the Known classes. I unloaded in the ASA forums when the then State Director made yardages the same as the National rules. With my blow up there nothing offered that said the Director got approval from ASA headquarters. Following that year for 2012 the ASA changed the Federation rules to more "mirror" National rules for yardages.
There is no voting of ASA members within a state. A Director may go to ASA, get approval and Federation rules are by-passed. A dictatorship of sorts. "Loose" meeting at this 3D club over yardages. The only ones wanting it were those that shot on the National circuit, so 2 for and 8 against and it passed to use National yardages. Okay, not a meeting really and not even a big meeting, but probably what would have been the same if all ASA state members were present.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I was questioned of that in my above post. Here's copies of the* past and present state rules*.

2011 Federation rule;
General rules;
C. During Federation Qualifier and State Championship tournaments all classes will compete using the Half Unknown/Half
Known distance format except those classes that are designated as “all known distance” (Bow Novice, Women’s Hunter,
Men’s Known and Women’s Known 40). Known distance class competitors will be grouped together and may carry range
finders over the entire course

ASA FEDERATION STATE CHAMPIONSHIP:
A. There will be one (1) ASA State Championship per year for each state.
B. Federation State Championships will consist of one (1) round of thirty (30) individual McKenzie 3-D targets. The tournament will be conducted over a two-day period; however individual competitors will be allowed to complete their competition in one day. This is to allow the maximum number of competitors the opportunity to compete. The host club will set half of the targets at unknown distances and half at known distances. 

Today, General rules;
C. During Federation Qualifier and State Championship tournaments all classes will follow the same format for known and unknown distance competition as they do in* ASA Pro/Ams.* This of course over rules the following.

ASA FEDERATION STATE CHAMPIONSHIP:
A. There will be one (1) ASA State Championship per year for each state.
B. Federation State Championships will consist of one (1) round of thirty (30) individual McKenzie 3-D targets. The tournament will be conducted over a two-day period; however individual competitors will be allowed to complete their competition in one day. This is to allow the maximum number of competitors the opportunity to compete. *The host club will set half of the targets at unknown distances and half at known distances.*


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

I have been to all the pro-ams this year as a Senior Open shooter and have discussed this with many, all year, and do feel there is defenit interest from many that already participate,and think that a large number of old fart paper punchers that don't shoot pro-ams would get involved in known yardage class.
Though it is true,our future is in the youth,there are still a lot of us old farts that bring them and pave the way.Once started,old or young,it is contagious.


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## Bowaholic71122 (Jan 20, 2008)

Would much rather see a Known Hunter class.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Bowaholic71122 said:


> Would much rather see a Known Hunter class.


Thats bow novice


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Sonny.......the rules were changed in 2012.. state shoots will use the same format as pro ams....if the class shoots all known....its all known at state.....if its a 1/2 known 1/2unknown. ..its that state....and if all unknown. ...its that on state


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Pincher said:


> menopause, dementia and depends. Jeez, I thought old farts would have some fortitude and want to shoot unknown. I have no hope for America anymore because if this is the values theyre passing on to theyre grand kids, Hunting will be outlawed by 2020


I swear Pincher you make about as much sense as some politicians......... You "have no hope for America" because shooting known distance 3D increases the number of people that enjoy archery competition? :doh:

"Hunting will be outlawed by 2020" because of known distance 3D? You are making NO sense! You may or may not be aware that you are making incredibly illogical statements. Need I remind you that competitive archery existed LONG before unknown distance 3D and the ASA ever existed? 

Individually we may not like known distance 3D but as a whole right now it is GOOD for archery. Making irrational statements of doom and gloom is childish.


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## Bowaholic71122 (Jan 20, 2008)

Yep. Guess you're right. Was thinking more of longer distance class with known yardage for hunter set-ups. Like maybe a K-45 Hunter. Everything is already "Classed to death" tho.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

the known yardage is a good ideal for the free style class but for the bowhunter class unknown should maybe remain but maybe shorter distances for seniors ,the reason for shorter distances is, once we get older we can`t use as heavy pound pull bow anymore.that`s were i am now at 60 years of age and not only now trying to judge distance but with using a bow with less pounds which means less speed,longer distances arrows seem to fall a little short easier ,but i still enjoy the unknown 3-d as well as known 3-d. but when i hunt i do try to use a range finder so maybe just maybe known is the way to ?? i really don`t like loosing arrows or looking for them in the grass .


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