# Target groups



## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Not a lot of info to go on looks like if you are not punching the release your float is too big so read the several active float threads in this forums and let us know what best fits your circumstance. If you need us to better figure it out with you need more info . Complete rig info stab length etc if you are shooting bare bow at 30 yards pretty good if it is at 5 yards with an open rig well we have work to do. So please provide more info


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

When you raise the bow, look through the scope, what you see? Everything starts there....


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## Jfk742 (Oct 13, 2013)

If you shoot right handed you're collapsing. Try making sure the bow shoulder is down and extended all the way through your shot


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

muck said:


> Can anyone tell what is going on with my group by looking at the target face




Target 1. Tightest group with 2 fliers in the 8-ring.
YOu lean backwards, and have a noticeable bend in the bow arm, with the left side upper arm going downhill from shoulder joint to elbow.
Appears you are also a shooter who does not shift his feet, so you set your feet once, and then TWIST for target face #2 and TWIST some more for target face #3.

Target 2. TOP row target is HARD for you, cuz to hit the TOP row, you have to lean back MORE than normal,
and with the noticeable bow arm elbow bend, raising your bow arm is inconsistent, combined with an inconsistent LEANING backwards, cuz you are losing your balance...
when shooting the top row. 

So, you SPRAY in a WIDER pattern than Target #1, cuz of balance and center of gravity issues.
The shoulder alignment is NEVER solid, cuz you are losing your balance, leaning backwards
so you also compensate with MORE shoulders rotation MORE counter-clockwise, out of position on SOME shots
so you also compensate with LESS shoulders rotation MORE clockwise, out of position for your OTHER shots....hence
the MOSTLY WIDE spray pattern, for the TOP row target.

The HIGH shots in the 9-ring,
elbow dropped LOWER than normal, due to the excessive leaning backwards, the center of gravity issue
and the VARIABLE left armpit angle, cuz of the bow arm elbow bend which is not repeatable, but MOSTLY the Un-repeatable LEFT armpit angle combined with variable leaning backwards....resulting in the two HIGH shots....for Target #2.

Probably open stance as well.

So,
when you SWING left for TARGET #1,
you are closer to a NEUTRAL stance
and this CROSS body core torsion is STABILIZING your core,
so you are RIGHT handed as WELL.

When you line up for TARGET #2,
you are now in an open stance for the LOWER body,
cuz you HEARD on the internet that EVERYONE should shoot open stance...
and your shoulders SWING clockwise to shoot TArget #2
so
you have now LOST most of the cross body core tension,
and now we see the EFFECTS of open stance
leaning backwards
and the bow arm elbow bend.....a WIDE spread for Target #2
and the two HIGH fliers at the TOP of the 9-ring,
from variable leaning backwards.

TARGET #3
you have RESTORED cross body tension,
cuz of the extreme twist for the shoulders alignment (MOST clockwise twisting of the shoulders)
with your lower body in the OPEN stance, so the LOWER body is twisted COUNTER-CLOCKWISE

so you gained, you RE-gained some core stability from the OPPOSITE alignments of the upper and lower body
and
cuz you LEAN backwards for a LEVEL shot (floor is level)
and you do BETTER on the bottom row
cuz this uses up some of that EXTRA draw length

you only have ONE flier at 1-o'clock in the 9-ring
and
you only have ONE flier at 4-o'clock in the 8-ring.

YOU have the MOST x-rings in the TARGET #1, bottom left
so
my guess is that a neutral stance seems to agree with you.


Sooo,
1) some shooting posture work will cleanup the high-low misses
2) some bow draw length tuning to the 1/4-inch will tighten up the groups FURTHER
3) need to tune your side rod (if you are using ONE side rod) to clean up the fliers at 3-o'clock


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Really you guys got all that from 1 piece of paper and no other information I love you guys but you are now reading tea leaves I need to post one of mine


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Joe Schnur said:


> Really you guys got all that from 1 piece of paper and no other information I love you guys but you are now reading tea leaves I need to post one of mine


lol, shakinmyhead...........exactly.

With almost 100% certainty I can tell from your target, you haven't practiced enough.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> lol, shakinmyhead...........exactly.
> 
> With almost 100% certainty I can tell from your target, you haven't practiced enough.


You sure, cuz it looks like to me he just needs to shorten his DL by 1/64", and turn his right foot 1.637 degrees clockwise. :lol:


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

bad misses are all right sided and a bit low, the rest looks like just more good practice needed. if your right handed, most likely, classic "collapse". pretty hard not to see that from the picture. if you truly know anything at all about form and execution, you would come to this conclusion by seeing that target. the three or four (one line cutter) arrows in the red on the right tell the story, the rest, in the yellow, doesn't matter. 
some times we get too critical about what we see. it sounds like you're a "real professional and you know what you're talking about, and you don't accept anything but perfection", but really it doesn't mean jack.....it's just smart talk.
i'll go so far as to challenge you three above to prove me wrong. you got the kahuna's to back up your mouth's ?.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

all these answer`s might be fine i kinda agree with ron w too.. but let`s be honest most of us shoot kinda like that alot its probably the personality you were born with. that target you shot is not a type B person,which most of us are not that type,tune all you want,different equipment i have tried it all and sometimes myself being a type A i shoot super ,but most of the time its targets that kinda look like that.yes archery is frustrating but its still fun,good luck,Pete53


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

ron w said:


> bad misses are all right sided and a bit low, the rest looks like just more good practice needed. if your right handed, most likely, classic "collapse". pretty hard not to see that from the picture. if you truly know anything at all about form and execution, you would come to this conclusion by seeing that target. the three or four (one line cutter) arrows in the red on the right tell the story, the rest, in the yellow, doesn't matter.
> some times we get too critical about what we see. it sounds like you're a "real professional and you know what you're talking about, and you don't accept anything but perfection", but really it doesn't mean jack.....it's just smart talk.
> i'll go so far as to challenge you three above to prove me wrong. you got the kahuna's to back up your mouth's ?.


You may have to elaborate for some of us simple folks. What exactly are we suppose to prove wrong?


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

muck said:


> Can anyone tell what is going on with my group by looking at the target face


Let's see, when my alignment and bow posture wasn't correct for me, my target faces looked a lot like yours.

When I changed my posture and alignment to where it is more correct for me, my holes migrated towards the center.

because of my misalignment, I generated a bunch of movement when I shot the shots. arrows landing out into the red.
after I found a better alignment for me, I found I could get through my shot with less motion generated. 

I used how steady I could hold the sight on target,without shooting, as my guide, for my positions.
when I found the position I could hold steady, I build my shot cycle around that position.
I also did and still do exercises to strengthen my arms, really helps with the holding steady thing.. 

so that's what I worked on, my new positions and getting thru my shot clean and quiet as I call it.
this all takes a lot of time and you can't care about score until you have actually made the changes.
Most won't or don't stick with it long enough to actually get the changes made. 

and this is what I know, not what I have heard... just in case your wondering... :noidea:

I should add that I am not a gifted archer, it is a lot of work for me just to be able to turn in a respectable effort at a tournament.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Bees said:


> Let's see, when my alignment and bow posture wasn't correct for me, my target faces looked a lot like yours.
> 
> When I changed my posture and alignment to where it is more correct for me, my holes migrated towards the center.
> 
> ...


Excellent post. "This is what has helped ME......" responses are the most beneficial. I also think you are spot on with identifying his issues.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

ron w said:


> i'll go so far as to challenge you three above to prove me wrong. you got the kahuna's to back up your mouth's ?.


I don't know if I was one of the three, but maybe so. 

I responded the way I did because; the shooter seems to be shooting "ok." We are left to guess at what level. My guess would be a mid-290's blue face shooter. As you know you can't shoot mid-290's on a blue face without doing a lot right. However, usually the difference between that and a 300 blue face average is practice (no matter what your form issues are.) 
Therefore my answer was "practice more." (Not SHOOT more.) There's not too many of the issues we see on here that wouldn't be cured by the OP simply studying the game, developing a shot process, and practicing! (Without even touching their bow.) Most people figure it out when they move from shooting to practicing.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

-1- target. Other than some rights one target doesn't tell me what is really taking place. What's the next target and the next target? Put 3 together and let's see. I don't know how good you are. For now, it may be a center shot issue. If you had good to excellent form you could eliminate center shot as a possibility. It may be a torque issue.

How was the lighting conditions? There's a shadow on your target and not centered to the target.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Bees said:


> Let's see, when my alignment and bow posture wasn't correct for me, my target faces looked a lot like yours.
> 
> When I changed my posture and alignment to where it is more correct for me, my holes migrated towards the center.
> 
> ...


This is exactly the kind of post that can actually be helpful, I wish more would try the power of example route. I too have to work very hard at this due to a multitude of reasons, personality being just one, alignment another. Unfortunately, not every method works for everyone so it's very helpful when someone shares their experience. That way you can make informed decisions based on the best data available. There is some very good stuff on here. Recently I picked up on here that my shot wasn't as consistent as it needs to be. I'm currently working on building more consistency into my execution to try and tighten my groups up.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

hard hands, little bit of alignment and possible some shoulder alignment issues, imbalance in pressure between the halves, and more than likely less than ideal tune for the bars


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## muck (May 15, 2005)

Yes, I need practice that's for sure. I have 3 kids and have a hard time shooting once a week. I do lose my tension on some shots. One thing I fight is getting in the yellow. I am a mid 290 shooter . I don't think I could straighten my eldow any more, I feel that I am pushing out the bow the hole time. What do you mean "hard hands"


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

He means stiff hands. Both bow hand and release hand, not good. When you reach the correct moment of "tension" in your back (full draw) you need to consciously relax (first) your bow hand, let it work all the way up your bow arm, across the tops of your shoulders, then down your release arm into your hand. You need to physically see this happening in your mind until it becomes habit. (All the while maintaining tension in your upper back.) It's something that will likely ad points to your score immediately if you focus on it.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Hard hands... Tension in the hands... You want to setup the shot and run the entire process relaxed; don't relax at full draw. Shoulders, arms, hands, the works is relaxed


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

N7709K said:


> Hard hands... Tension in the hands... You want to setup the shot and run the entire process relaxed; don't relax at full draw. Shoulders, arms, hands, the works is relaxed


How do you do that n7709k? How do you achieve maximum relaxation in all those "parts" before full draw. Serious question....willing to learn.


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## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

muck said:


> Can anyone tell what is going on with my group by looking at the target face


Yes, you are hitting the center 50% of the time,figure out what you are doing on the good shots and repeat them


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Lazarus said:


> He means stiff hands. Both bow hand and release hand, not good. When you reach the correct moment of "tension" in your back (full draw) you need to consciously relax (first) your bow hand, let it work all the way up your bow arm, across the tops of your shoulders, then down your release arm into your hand. You need to physically see this happening in your mind until it becomes habit. (All the while maintaining tension in your upper back.) It's something that will likely ad points to your score immediately if you focus on it.


Excellent.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

if you start the shot tense you will finish the shot tense- you won't keep pressure between the halves if you relax at full draw...

during the setup portion of the process the hands get set; one into the grip and one into the release. Bow side hand gets set into the grip; if you don't set the hand relaxed you aren't setting in the position that it will remain during the shot- there needs to be no tension in the bow hand; you are not gripping or needing to hold the bow, it just sits there. The release side gets set into the release; again if you set tension in the release hand the speed and consistency of the release will change. Release hand and wrist are kept relaxed; set the release in the fingers and hook into the loop. As the slight pressure is built between the halves at the end up setting up the shot you no longer "hold" the release, it is being pulled into the fingers and the grip of the bow is pushing into the hand. Relax and drop the shoulders, raise the bow and engage the back during the draw of the bow; the arms aren't used for drawing the bow so they do not need to tense up. When the bow is raised its raised up by bringing the arms up, not by bringing the shoulders, chest, and ribcage up. at full draw the back is holding the halves apart, as the shot runs the back contracts and the chest expands driving the two halves apart; if the release hand is tense the shot doesn't wanna go- the release is static. If the bow hand is tense movement is introduced into the sight picture as the grip is now riding against a firm surface that is not contouring to the grip(left right teeter, dot seems jittery, just won't sit).


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

muck said:


> *Yes, I need practice that's for sure*. I have 3 kids and *have a hard time shooting once a week*. I do lose my tension on some shots. One thing I fight is getting in the yellow. I am a mid 290 shooter . I don't think I could straighten my eldow any more, I feel that I am pushing out the bow the hole time. What do you mean "hard hands"


Problem found.....


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

If you don't listen to Nuts and Bolts you are foolish. He has so made my shooting so much better than it ever was. If you listen and do what he tells ya it will all come together. Thanks Nuts and Bolts for all you do........


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Leon Garfield said:


> If you don't listen to Nuts and Bolts you are foolish. He has so made my shooting so much better than it ever was. If you listen and do what he tells ya it will all come together. Thanks Nuts and Bolts for all you do........


Considering what the Poster gave I think it's pretty hard to be definite of his real issues. Poster; "have a hard time shooting once a week."


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

Hey I respect all of you but as I asked the details to tell exactly what was wrong was not there. And I stand by my position . Yardage average score . Release type ....... Lots of information that would allow an accurate answer. I think asking for enough info before putting out a page of advice is reasonable. A. Mid 290's shooter was info we did not have . Struggling to get in the yellow also important data . I listen to n&b all the time just thought the extensive analysis with out data was a bit of a wild ass guess


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

N7709K said:


> if you start the shot tense you will finish the shot tense- you won't keep pressure between the halves if you relax at full draw...
> 
> during the setup portion of the process the hands get set; one into the grip and one into the release. Bow side hand gets set into the grip; if you don't set the hand relaxed you aren't setting in the position that it will remain during the shot- there needs to be no tension in the bow hand; you are not gripping or needing to hold the bow, it just sits there. The release side gets set into the release; again if you set tension in the release hand the speed and consistency of the release will change. Release hand and wrist are kept relaxed; set the release in the fingers and hook into the loop. As the slight pressure is built between the halves at the end up setting up the shot you no longer "hold" the release, it is being pulled into the fingers and the grip of the bow is pushing into the hand. Relax and drop the shoulders, raise the bow and engage the back during the draw of the bow; the arms aren't used for drawing the bow so they do not need to tense up. When the bow is raised its raised up by bringing the arms up, not by bringing the shoulders, chest, and ribcage up. at full draw the back is holding the halves apart, as the shot runs the back contracts and the chest expands driving the two halves apart; if the release hand is tense the shot doesn't wanna go- the release is static. If the bow hand is tense movement is introduced into the sight picture as the grip is now riding against a firm surface that is not contouring to the grip(left right teeter, dot seems jittery, just won't sit).


Very well. I agree about starting the shot relaxed. If you don't it can cause several problems, mainly with stiff hands your arrow can have a propensity to fall from the blade. We're going to have to disagree on finalizing the relaxation process at full draw though. If done properly everything is locked in place at full draw, the relaxing of the muscles starting at the bow hand through the upper shoulders into the draw arm/hand is all a part of "letting go." In fact the relaxation is what fires the release. 

I encourage you to use what works for you. I'll stick with what I'm doing successfully. It was good to see your explanation, I'm always ready to learn in hopes of finding a tweak I hadn't thought of.


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## PSE Archer (Oct 26, 2014)

muck said:


> Can anyone tell what is going on with my group by looking at the target face


You are on your way. But looking at your target I'm not going on a guessing game of your problems. There are 2 things you should be concerned about- 
1. Repeatable form
2. A solid process. 

If your time is very limited, it would behoove you to find a good hands on coach. Archery is a hands on sport- you will not find that here. My best advice would be to drive and find a good coach you can visit at least twice a month. Build a solid form and a solid process. After the kids are asleep, get in the garage and work on your form and process with the short game. 

Good luck God speed


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

no, we are not dealing with someone's life or health. this is archery not medicine.


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## cbmac (May 24, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> Considering what the Poster gave I think it's pretty hard to be definite of his real issues. Poster; "have a hard time shooting once a week."


Agree. Maybe over analysis here. Don't even know in you are a right/left handed shooter.

Only definite thing I see: this is not a shotgun blast pattern. 70% good hits, 30% fliers. Mostly to the right. Can you identify anything different about the process for those fliers? Anchor off, sight picture off, excessive float, excessive time before release, back tension issues, coming off the wall, etc? If you can identify something in the process which is "off" with those fliers, you can let down when you recognize a problem developing. Letting down 30% of the time when you are practicing is not excessive. 

I can only shoot once, occasionally twice a week. But I really work it when I practice at the range - keep scores, make notes, adjust, monitor progress. Also, I read a lot on archery. Check Nuts and Bolts offerings on AT. He has essentially posted a book on compound archery here. Look at Kisik Lee's book Total Archery, available from Lancaster Archery. Find a local coach who can spend an hour or two with you checking your shot process and perhaps adjusting your bow if needed. That will give you some specific things to work on over the next several practice sessions. Shooting once a week won't put you in the pro ranks, but you can shoot 300 on the five spot consistently with the effort.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

Lazarus said:


> Very well. I agree about starting the shot relaxed. If you don't it can cause several problems, mainly with stiff hands your arrow can have a propensity to fall from the blade. We're going to have to disagree on finalizing the relaxation process at full draw though. If done properly everything is locked in place at full draw, the relaxing of the muscles starting at the bow hand through the upper shoulders into the draw arm/hand is all a part of "letting go." In fact the relaxation is what fires the release.
> 
> I encourage you to use what works for you. I'll stick with what I'm doing successfully. It was good to see your explanation, I'm always ready to learn in hopes of finding a tweak I hadn't thought of.


I guess i'm missing where starting with hard hands and unneeded tension is a decent route to go.... easily could be just in how i'm interpreting things; ain't gonna rule that out... If i'm following correctly relaxing the platform is what gives the needed movement to allow the shot to fire; so its relax/bleed off pressure then begin executing the shot or try and balance the loss of pressure with running the shot?


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

No. Not starting with hard hands, just making sure to further relax everything at the beginning of the "process" to insure it's all as relaxed as possible. Yes, ultimately the relaxation is what fires the shot. But no, it's not a relaxation of any of the points that are relevant to the draw/hold process. Hope that makes sense. Maybe this will help, I have a philosophy about shooting a bow, it's very simple. There are only two parts, pulling, and letting go. If you aren't pulling (drawing,) you're letting go. In my process everything from "Full draw" and beyond is 100% part of "letting go." The relaxation I mentioned is the foundation for that. 

I have told myself I'd never post the above on an open forum but I just did. I guess it's ok because it probably won't work for most people anyways.


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## bseltzer (Nov 20, 2014)

Look, I'm a complete ignoramus. OK? Been shooting a bow since I was 13. I'm now a ripe old 66, and still shooting. I've shot a lot of targets that look just like yours, and a lot more that were considerably worse. And yes, on certain enchanted moments, I've shot a few than were a whole lot better. The one and only thing that has allowed me to reproduce that last category more consistently has been to identify as clearly as possible what the difference was between those that went right down the pipe and those that didn't, and then consciously practicing the good ones in my mind over and over until I honestly dreamt about the "feeling" in my sleep. I learned along the way to stop shooting scores and judge the quality of my shooting by how much each shot "felt" like one of the good ones.

The problem is it's very, very hard to reliably identify the actual differences in techniques that define those "good ones" from behind the bow trying to make things work. Thank god for a wife, whose patience rivals that of Job himsel, who was willing to spend hours learning enough about archery to develop the vocabulary needed to accurately describe what she saw me doing on the line. We were both health care professionals back then, and there simply wasn't any room in our budget for competent instruction. Slowly, piece by piece, the profile of a "good shot" began to emerge. When affordable video recorders became available, the wife got a vacation from here range patrols. Saved my marriage and allow me to see even more easily what I was or wasn't doing.

Up upshot of this lengthy and seemingly pointless tale is this. You're clearly capable of some "good shots". By whatever means available, identify the mechanics that produce them, groove the "feel" of them in your mind, and then practice them until they become automatic. Bail out on any shot that doesn't "feel" right. Practice the feel, not the pattern on the paper. Make no mistake, this takes time, discipline, and commitment. I understand you're strapped for time, so you're going to have to decide what better shooting is worth to you.


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

I was working with a coach last night and was given some interesting insight. He has a drill a little boring but with a foam bale can even be executed In your basement. 5 yards put up a target shoot until you can put 60 arrows in the x (nfaa target ) each arrow once you are refining your process should be on the actual x itself . Move to 7 once you can do several 60 s successfully this allows you to focus on the weak points in your form and release and build a strong foundation as you work back you will need to move outdoors or to the range when you get back to 20 it will feel easy. But it is always about a strong shot if it is weak or collapsing etc you won't get to the 60x's at 5 yards . You nay need a coaches help or provide pictures and or video for review here to help you along the path.. P.s. This coach has several world champions and the field hunter record holder in his current stable. The guy gets results.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, once a week shooting really isn't going to do it. I was really peaking about a month ago and my indoor shooting was as good as it has ever been and then I hunted a little and got sick and I just haven't been able to get into the range and shoot.

I have already started managing my start up this week, I can't go in there thinking that I am going to see the same level of shooting. I am going to go in and enjoy a simply little shooting session where I get in some good shots and I am going to do that for a few days and then after a week of daily shooting I will ramp up my volume and think about doing a scoring round or two in the second week late.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

As far as looking at the target, you seem to have made a few good shots but in all reality you are functioning on less than 50% when you look at good to poor efforts. To me you have to learn to mimic your good shot and in the beginning you may not be able to do that, you may feel a good one and simply not be able to reproduce it. You simply have to try to reproduce it and after a while you will be stringing 4 or 5 good shots in a row and then 15 in a row. This is the natural progression that you must choose to go through along with a solid foundation of shooting form and a good shot process. 

It really is possible if you make the right choices mentally to get rid of bad shots, right now I am to the point where I go hundreds of shots without a bad shot on many occasions. when I first started I couldn't even get 5 in a row good efforts but now I have made the changes in my shooting so that even my bad shots result in a x most of the time.


Good luck and we have some good reading for you if you want it that can open your eyes to many if the little mental issues that have to be eliminated.


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## muck (May 15, 2005)

I'd be interested in reading about the mental issues, because I think it all is in my head.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

muck said:


> I'd be interested in reading about the mental issues, because I think it all is in my head.


If you think it is, you're right. 

Since it's a mental thing (you just said so,) you obviously need to work on the mental game. Everyone does. As I said earlier, prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. And that applies to archery just the same as medicine. 

What do you think your issue is? How is your hold? Are you comfortable with the way your release fires? Is it pretty consistent in how it fires for you? Do you notice an increase in movement when you start your firing sequence? Do you have a definite (written) shot sequence that you are working on? Most important, what within your shot sequence is giving you troubles. Yes, these are all mental issues. 

These might seem to be tough questions but they're all things you need to learn intricately if you want to improve. And above all, study the game. 

Best!


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## muck (May 15, 2005)

I would say the arrows hit right where my pin is. The bow hold very still with very limited movement. My mother n problem is I get stuck at the top of the yellow and have to force the pin down. Them I think I start to punch. Yes my good shoots I held in the yellow and got good releases off. I feel like I'm holding to long. I shoot with a carter just b cuz and when I shoot a back tension I sweat, shake and curse and 1 out of 30 times I will miss the target face


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Lots of ground to cover there. 

This has worked for me; :wink:

First, you need a shot sequence if you don't have one. 

Second, remove the word "punch" from your vocabulary. I'm serious.

Then you need to get on the short bale with no target for a few hundred shots and a cold release, focusing purely on the steps in your shot sequence. Then you need to hang a target on the short bale and POUND the bale. While you're doing that forget about how well your arrows are "scoring" and make the reward a "good, strong shot" not an x. Focus on process, never results. 

That's a pretty simple starting point. The fact that you miss the target 1 out of 30 times with the hinge says you need to put LOTS of time on the bale. Before you think about or introduce anything else, nothing. 

My :02:


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## miko0618 (Mar 3, 2005)

Holy crap!

Could it be as simple as he hits the release when the pin is in the wrong place? Either from just missing or perhaps some type of anxiety?


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## miko0616 (Aug 25, 2014)

I shoot once a week right now. Sometimes less. This is an average competition target for me. I'm not saying practice doesnt help but thats not whats needed here.


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## bseltzer (Nov 20, 2014)

miko0616 said:


> I shoot once a week right now. Sometimes less. This is an average competition target for me. I'm not saying practice doesnt help but thats not whats needed here.


Practice... No. Perfect practice... Definitely. Whatever your current practice schedule is now, I suspect it was just a wee bit more intense in the past. :teeth:


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## miko0616 (Aug 25, 2014)

bseltzer said:


> Practice... No. Perfect practice... Definitely. Whatever your current practice schedule is now, I suspect it was just a wee bit more intense in the past. :teeth:


It can be. I feel like i need more practice now. My only point was that saying that his target was because he didnt practice enough didnt have to be true. It seems like theres a lot of speculation here. And over analyzing. And even some nonsense. Relax and make proper shots. Be honest with yourself and whomever you seek advice from. Thats it.


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## cadethearcher (Jul 28, 2014)

You may have to much weight on the right side of your bow.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

miko0616 said:


> I shoot once a week right now. Sometimes less. This is an average competition target for me. I'm not saying practice doesnt help *but thats not whats needed here.*


For no more than the Poster gave, practice is the issue.





bseltzer said:


> Practice... No. Perfect practice... Definitely. Whatever your current practice schedule is now, I suspect it was just a wee bit more intense in the past. :teeth:


Nice catch. You get good and ingrained shooting good sticks with you. What do we know about the Poster? 
.
.


cadethearcher said:


> You may have to much weight on the right side of your bow.


$5 says his right shoe string was too tight. Either that or he had on the wrong color of socks.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

miko0616 said:


> It can be. I feel like i need more practice now. My only point was that saying that his target was because he didnt practice enough didnt have to be true. It seems like theres a lot of speculation here. And over analyzing. And even some nonsense. Relax and make proper shots. Be honest with yourself and whomever you seek advice from. Thats it.


:lol:

Quite possibly.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

"It seems like theres a lot of speculation here. And over analyzing. And even some nonsense"



cbrunson said:


> :lol:
> 
> Quite possibly.



cb, I can't believe you said that, but I've got my hand up, but don't know which I'm guilty of


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

To stay on topic, if someone posts something you disagree with, explain how what he/she said that was wrong.
Do not attack someone for giving advice with nothing more to go on than "you don't know for sure".
If someone gives an answer you don't understand, or believe. But you don't have any better advice, ask them how they know that instead of telling them they don't.


Continue


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## miko0616 (Aug 25, 2014)

Mahly said:


> To stay on topic, if someone posts something you disagree with, explain how what he/she said was wrong.
> Do not attack someone for giving advice with nothing more to go on than "you don't know for sure".
> If someone gives an answer you don't understand, or believe, but you don't have any better advice, ask them how they know that instead of telling them they don't.
> 
> ...


Thats an interesting concept.


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## Joe Schnur (Mar 22, 2012)

So my original and subsequent posts to stop diagnosing and prescribing until we had sufficient information turns out correct. A possible case of target panic shot goes were pin is can't hold centered on the yellow freezing high and having to force the pin down into the yellow how about we give specific solutions for the real problem. Could have gotten here much quicker if we did not try to solve the problem till we had all the necessary information. Also had the original poster put a paragraph with the original picture we could have immediately put them on the correct path. 

Now does the holding high problem feel mechanical or is it mental. Most of the can't get the pin in the middle then I punch is rooted in a form of target panic. Some of this can be helped with some drills. 

1. Set up a spare release so it cannot go off or use a safe draw and a target taped to the wall. Never shoot just draw aim hold 3 to 5 seconds on the center of the x and let down. Doesn't have to be more than 6 ft from you. You need to separate the shot from the aiming . Get your pin comfortable in the center of the x. 

2 do this with a normal release at 15ft with a target and do to till EVERY arrow is an inside out 10. At 15 ft. Slowly work your way back 2 yards at a time.

I did not invent the process but I have seen the results. It works takes time but you can exchange some rec. time for practice at home or in the garage and get this solved . Be cautious about jumping to 20 yards the old habits tend to come back. I hope this helps you as much as the others that have tried it. 

Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress.


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## Atascaderobow (Nov 4, 2014)

^^^^^+1. I use this approach everyday. Is doing all these drills fun? NO, but it sure is paying off tenfold. Shooting targets at 20 yards is a reward for doing all these drills. Doing these drills up close means I don't have to be on a 20 yard range to practice more often. My garage works fine. Shoot, if I could get away with it I would have a bale in the living room. Geez, the wife and HER rules :wink:


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Joe Schnur said:


> So my original and subsequent posts to stop diagnosing and prescribing until we had sufficient information turns out correct..


Us here and them there we need all the information we can get. This should be noted in a "stand out" Sticky.


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