# Setting a nock D loop



## Huey C (Jun 26, 2016)

You want bottom of the nock as it attaches to the string to be 1/8" higher that where the bottom of the arrow is as it sits on the rest.


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## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

I prefer dead level and tune from there. In reality, get close to level OR slightly high and go shoot. This is not the part of setting up and tuning to sweat over too much. Like you said, it will probably change anyway.


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## SilentJ (Sep 7, 2016)

And what if with my rest I can't get the arrow to sit centered over the berger hole? Is that an issue? The bottom of my arrow sits at the top 25% of the berger hole. It's because my ultra hunter QAD won't allow me to go lower without hitting.


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## msc6623 (Aug 14, 2013)

Sub'd


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## Huey C (Jun 26, 2016)

> And what if with my rest I can't get the arrow to sit centered over the berger hole? Is that an issue? The bottom of my arrow sits at the top 25% of the berger hole. It's because my ultra hunter QAD won't allow me to go lower without hitting.


That's ok too. The idea of running the arrow through the center of the berger hole is a starting point. If you are a little higher at your rest, then you will be at a higher point on your string when attaching the dloop. Ideally you want the arrow lower and as close to the shelf as you can without interference. It is intended to remove variances in your grip being introduced into the shot. 

Many things in bow setup and tuning guides are just starting points, a reference of where you should be. I have bows that shoot well with the nocking point dead level. Some shoot well with it 1/8" high. Some have tuned well and shot well with the nock slightly lower than the rest. The thought behind the 1/8" high reference is that it gets the arrow up off of the rest a bit for less interference when released. With a drop away rest, it is not as important.


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## JDubleTap (Aug 30, 2016)

SilentJ said:


> And what if with my rest I can't get the arrow to sit centered over the berger hole? Is that an issue? The bottom of my arrow sits at the top 25% of the berger hole. It's because my ultra hunter QAD won't allow me to go lower without hitting.


Please excuse my lack of knowledge. Can someone tell me the importance of the Berger hole and the position of the rest or does this only apply to QAD?


Sent from over yonder


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## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

JDubleTap said:


> Please excuse my lack of knowledge. Can someone tell me the importance of the Berger hole and the position of the rest or does this only apply to QAD?
> 
> 
> Sent from over yonder


The berger hole is your reference for your starting point with any rest. I start with the arrow centered on the berger hole. Some folks start with it towards the top of the berger hole. As stated above, it's a starting point. Your tuning will tell you where you need to be. 

Personally, I adjust the rest until the arrow is even with the berger hole. Then adjust my d loop until the arrow is level AND even in the berger hole. Then I go shoot and do what I need to in order to tune it up.


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## JDubleTap (Aug 30, 2016)

Thanks Chief


Sent from over yonder


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## SilentJ (Sep 7, 2016)

I've been trying to paper tune and I've been getting a nock high and right tear (point low left on a diagonal). I've moved my nock point down to 90 and the tear hasn't changed. And I moved my rest to the left a lot and the tear still didn't change in either direction.

Timing and synch look good to me, only thing I can think of is maybe cam lean but it's the binary Cams on the fuel so I have zero idea how to adjust that.

And well, I guess it could be my also. I'd actually prefer if it was just me, at least I'd have confidence in the bow and then correct myself instead of chasing my tail here


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## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Binary cams typically need to be shimmed. You have to take the cams off and change the shims around, or buy a shim kit, to physically move the string to match the center shot of the rest. it's a hassle but I did it with my Matthews and it helped. 

How is the spine on your arrows? That can do some wonky things if you are under/over spined. 

And grip torque can cause funny tears too. 

FYI, I have never had much luck moving a drop away rest to tune. The arrow does not touch the rest long enough, which is the point of a drop away. With a drop away I mess with D loop or you have to shim. On Elites you can move the cable rod to induce or reduce some cam lean to tune. Straight rods don't work like that though. 

Easiest thing might be to get the best tear you can and work on form to see if it clears up more.


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## gettinold (Oct 23, 2013)

Did you check for fletching contact with cables or rest? Is rest timed properly? Moving rest should have an effect. How big of tear? Try turning your nock a little so its cock vane up but angled slightly away from riser.


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## SilentJ (Sep 7, 2016)

chiefjason said:


> Binary cams typically need to be shimmed. You have to take the cams off and change the shims around, or buy a shim kit, to physically move the string to match the center shot of the rest. it's a hassle but I did it with my Matthews and it helped.
> 
> How is the spine on your arrows? That can do some wonky things if you are under/over spined.
> 
> ...


I'm shooting 340 spine PSE sniper 300 arrows at 29 1/2 inch, it's within the spine charts for my setup. I've moved my D loop down a lot and it didn't change anything. It's at 90 right now and the tear seems like it didn't change at all. 

I honestly have no idea what's going on that changing the height of my D loop did nothing, it doesnt make sense. The bow is pretty much exactly in between the timing marks at rest and when I draw the cams are synched and hitting draw stops at the same time. 

I'm going to take it into the shop today, but my shop doesn't really have much of a clue, Im more or less going for the bow press (if anyone wants to open up a shop in Quebec City now's the time haha, there's nothing here).

If that doesn't work I'll be taking the drop away off and throwing the WB back on. Not really the time to be messing with this stuff with the season opening tomorrow. Might be waiting to go until I figure this out a bit.


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## SilentJ (Sep 7, 2016)

gettinold said:


> Did you check for fletching contact with cables or rest? Is rest timed properly? Moving rest should have an effect. How big of tear? Try turning your nock a little so its cock vane up but angled slightly away from riser.


The tear is about an inch long. There isn't any contact with the riser or cables but it's possible I could be getting contact with the drop away. The drop away is timed properly and if there's contact it would be from bounce back, its the QAD ultra hunter so it doesn't have lock down to stop that. But honestly I don't notice if there is contact but it doesn't look like it


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## gettinold (Oct 23, 2013)

Put some lipstick on your vanes and check them. Moving rest and dloop should definitely show a change, good or bad, but a change. Is the rest coming up in the last inch of draw? As far a shimming goes personally I think its way over done on AT, your basicly saying the designers and engineers are wrong. I'm sure some get put backwards during manufacturing and a few might need it but its like a fad on here like so many things from cable slides to arrows. Distance of your paper tune? is your target far enough away from paper. I've seen guys paper tune with target 2 feet behind paper and wonder whats wrong. Make sure the target is farther back than length of arrow.


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## SilentJ (Sep 7, 2016)

So you're saying that I shouldn't bother with adjusting cam lean? I mean it's really not that bad, barely even noticeable but there is a bit. I'm just searching for anything to fix this. And ya, moving the rest and nock point did practical nothing to the tear. The target is far enough that the arrow clears the paper before hitting and I'm shooting from about 8-10 feet from the paper. And if I go back another 5 feet or more then the arrow corrects itself and I get bullet holes. I'm gonna check the shop to make sure timing and synch are actually good and then I'll check contact and if everything is good I'm switching back the the WB and never looking back until I buy a ripcord or a QAD HD with lock down.


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## SilentJ (Sep 7, 2016)

So today I literally made a lot of adjustments to the nock height, the rest position up and down and back and forth. I tried different grip, I tried varying distances between 10 feet and 5 feet from the paper and every single time the tear is high and right. I literally had time when I adjusted and it made the tear worse. I have no idea what to do, zero. The guys at my ****ty shop had no idea, the only thing he did was check my cam synch and made half a twist adjustment to the top one.

Is this even possible? Like how aren't my adjustments doing anything?


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## devinesZ (May 2, 2010)

try different arrows?


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