# Funny thing happens when archers see good barebow shooters...



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

They tend to switch to barebow. 

It just dawned on me at last night's JOAD/AA practice that 4 years ago when I was shooting a lot of Olympic recurve in preparation for 2012 Olympic trials, the majority of my 30 or so archers were also shooting recurve. The rest were shooting compound, and a few shot barebow. 

A few years later after switching back to barebow, things started to change. One by one, my archers started asking more about barebow, and giving it a try. I could tell that it was having an impact. I would occasionally shoot barebow against my top recurve archers, and I would beat them about half the time. The other archers took notice. 

Last night, we had about 20 archers shooting and more than half (JOAD and Adults) were shooting barebow. And shooting it very well. 

I honestly think the reason barebow hasn't been more popular in JOAD/AA clubs in the past is that most recurve and compound archers just haven't seen what a GOOD barebow archer is capable of. In many cases, they don't give up much, if any, to good recurve archers. And it draws a lot of interest when a barebow archer is routinely shooting 27's and 28's indoors, or breaking 50 outdoors at distance. Archers start asking "why do I have all this stuff on my bow?" and saying "I'd love to learn how to do that!" Even the parents watching from the back will say these things. It makes an impact.

Lately, the barebow division has seen some tremendous performances. New U.S. records broken, competition has increased, and people are taking notice. When many good barebow archers would score higher than not just many but most recurve archers, people take notice. They realize that no, you don't need all those expensive and cumbersome accessories to shoot really great scores. And then the light bulb comes on.

We are seeing a groundswell in this division, and the best is yet to come. I can't wait to see where the division is in 2, 5 or 10 years. These are exciting times for barebow archery!


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Exactly, Your spot on John.

From what I have seen is that there are not very many places that teach how to aim with a barebow whether it is gapping, string walking or face walking. Many of us that have stuck with it have had to learn by trial and error. Most of the instructors are either well skilled with Compounds or Olympic Recurve, but have no idea how to effectively aim a barebow at all sorts of distances. So when people see a barebow shooter just flinging arrows out there, and then see the Compound and Olympic Recurves drill the center of the target, they tend to move to the Compound and Oly Bow.

But when you have someone that can shoot a barebow effectively, it draws attention. Its like a magnet. People are so programmed to think barebow archers are like what you see in the old western movies where you have a 100 Indians randomly throwing arrows at John Wayne and missing every one. When people see barebow shooter drill the center of the target, or when a barebow is hitting the 70m target with every arrow, they watch, they are mesmerized, they come by, they ask questions. That opens doors.

When I took over our club's indoor league 4 years ago, I was the only barebow shooter. We now have 5. One of them Robin Hooded last weekend. Pretty exciting. Yeah, I can't wait to see how this progresses


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

I'm happy to be living in a time where it's blooming, and I'm young enough to watch it grow. This is a great time to be a BB archer, besides the records you mentioned, the equipment available to BB archers, targeted specifically for BB, has also grown. That's always a good thing. There are many great shooters out there and from what I've witnessed, they do not come off as "elite" or above anyone else. They are willing to share their knowledge, their failures, their stories. I think as long as this "image" I just mentioned stays in place, it will continue to grow. Strangely, I've seen more converts from the compound side, than Olympic at my local clubs.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> the equipment available to BB archers, targeted specifically for BB, has also grown. That's always a good thing


Absolutely. The equipment available to barebow archers is outstanding, and only getting better. No, we don't need much, but a riser and tabs and weights designed especially with barebow archers in mind make a big difference. One that better shooters will be asking for.

As for the generosity and sharing, all archers are pretty generous as a rule, but nowhere is that more true than in the barebow ranks. It's the division that competes for the love of the game, and maybe occasionally some bragging rights. We are happy to see great performances, whether it is our own, or our opponent's, and that's how it should be.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

I shoot with a friend of mine who is a barebow shooter and really getting the bug to compete. And she's pretty darned good too. I'm hoping to get her talked into some of the local outdoor shoots because I think she'd do pretty well. And of course there is talking her into Nationals 2017 at Chula Vista.

She shoots a Spig explorer with a weight, SF Premium limbs,a Spig tab and ACCs with xs wings. 

She looks at me with my sight and stabilizer with the same horror I view compound "That's too complicated for me," she says. "Too much work."

I always like to see a good barebow shooter. It's not my thing but I do give props to a good barebow shooter. 

Off topic some women get together to knit. We get together to fletch arrows and shoot.


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## nowheels (Mar 28, 2009)

we see more people trying it out but don't see many in competition. Looking through different shoot results your lucky to see two or three bb or trad. 
Are there more than a hand full of shooters that can post big numbers.


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## ttop (Aug 4, 2007)

John
I think in your case that a lot of the inspiration for other archers comes from your outgoing attitude and friendly nature. I shot with you at the Hoyt shoot in 
St. Louis a few years ago. It was the first time I had shot barebow at any distance over 20 yards. My performance was less than stellar but I had a great time that day. I recall that at the awards ceremony they referred to us as the "rowdy group" on target 14. I have since improved somewhat, and had the chance to allow several non- barebow shooters to at least try a few shots with my equipment. I even had one Olympic recurve class shooter that I was targeted with(I was the only barebow shooter there that day) come up behind me while I was shooting my warm up round and comment to another Olympic shooter "that's amazing how does he do that". He beat me that day but only by 3 points because he pulled a rabbit out of his hat on the last end. You're right when you say that people respond and show interest to even reasonably decent barebow shooting. I like to see people take an interest because hopefully it will give me more people to shoot with. 

I want to say thank you for all that you do.


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## twofinger (Feb 12, 2012)

I agree, i shoot compound bare bow and last night at leagues i shot my highest score since coming off shoulder issues. it was fun to have the compound guys asking me you sure you don't have a sight on that bow? and a couple of them picked up the genesis bows at the end of the night and tried their hand at bare bow.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> They tend to switch to barebow.
> 
> It just dawned on me at last night's JOAD/AA practice that 4 years ago when I was shooting a lot of Olympic recurve in preparation for 2012 Olympic trials, the majority of my 30 or so archers were also shooting recurve. The rest were shooting compound, and a few shot barebow.
> 
> ...


Seeing excellence is only one part of the equation. BB devotees need to step up to the plate and lead via JOAD, or other instruction groups. Until that happens, you'll be at the margins.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

True. But this is also happening. We recently had an outstanding barebow seminar here in Texas, led by Rick Stonebraker and organized by Lynda LeCompte, who runs X10 Archery in Houston. Most of my JOAD qualified coaches are barebow archers. In Texas at least, many of our 4-H archers compete in barebow, which all but requires their 4-H coaches to know something about it.

So yes, it is a bit of a chicken-or-egg conundrum but I'm seeing growth not just in numbers of participants, but also knowledgeable instructors. If we all do our part to encourage the interest in barebow, whether shooting or teaching, it will make a difference.

Nowheels, just stay tuned. 

And Tom, it was my pleasure. I've never had a bad day on that field. :darkbeer:


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I think we've talked about the feedback loop before. New archers come in, x% are not the kids of archers and have no experience with any bow, and what do they get taught on? I think that channeling has its effects. I think you are starting to see in Texas what happens in terms of disbursement if each choice is presented as equally valid. At TSAA state, male seniors, 10 BB, 7 recurve. At TFAA state, adult males, 7 FSLR, 6 Trad. Lest it be dismissed as the product of certain coaches, there is a contingent of Cinnamon Creek trad archers from Fort Worth who went 1-2 at TFAA state and could probably have gone about 1-4 or 5 if everyone entered. Sometimes this gets dissed as the hobby horse of certain coaches but what I have noticed is that one archer begats another. Every time I run into the Cinnamon Creek archers I competed against last May in my first real barebow class at a tournament, there is another new one. So at least some of it is pods of people popping up where the class is respected as a choice.

This probably reflects the need for coaches/training to excel at barebow but also the basic fact that socially speaking other people doing something can make it feel as valid and interesting as other choices.

Some people want precision and high tech and it won't be for them. I know even before I tried barebow with any seriousness, I would get out my wooden bow for a few days after indoor was over, or after I got back from Arizona, OK, it's been super serious for a few months, let's have some fun. Barebow is probably more like most of us imagined archery would be when we decided to try. I don't think Oly is the natural first choice unless it is encouraged as such.

That being said, I enjoy Oly as well and am considering doing both. I think the good aspect of what John is talking about is that it feels like locally the environment is shifting where people do divisions because they like what they are doing. That includes compound and Oly as well. I think that leads to people sticking with it longer. I think at the ranges where it seems like everyone does x, even if they produce high quality x people, the burn out rate is higher which I think is because when stressed the people who had less choice find it harder to see the joy in what they are doing.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Jay, you are really onto something.



> you are starting to see in Texas what happens in terms of disbursement if each choice is presented as equally valid.


There is a great deal of truth to this, and we will see this nationwide as JOAD and AA archers now have this "valid" choice.



> the environment is shifting where people do divisions because they like what they are doing. That includes compound and Oly as well. I think that leads to people sticking with it longer.


Ultimately, this is what it should be about. I have told new archers and their parents for years that they or their child should shoot the type of bow they enjoy shooting most, because when it comes to training for competition, every archer will shoot a LOT of arrows, and it just works best if they are enjoying their time behind the bow. Otherwise, they will never realize their full potential in the sport.

Compound, Recurve and Barebow each present a unique challenge and unique set of tools to address that challenge. They appeal to different personalities for different reasons. Even the same person, as Jay states, will be drawn to one or another depending on the day or the season or where they are in their archery journey.

I have a daughter who swims competitively, and I see similarities with the different strokes in swimming. Freestyle reminds me of compound archers, butterfly reminds me of recurve archers, and backstroke and breaststroke remind me of barebow archers. Different personalities are drawn to different strokes, and when they are all presented as valid options, you will see athletes choose the one they like the most.


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> True. But this is also happening. We recently had an outstanding barebow seminar here in Texas, led by Rick Stonebraker and organized by Lynda LeCompte, who runs X10 Archery in Houston. Most of my JOAD qualified coaches are barebow archers. In Texas at least, many of our 4-H archers compete in barebow, which all but requires their 4-H coaches to know something about it.
> 
> So yes, it is a bit of a chicken-or-egg conundrum but I'm seeing growth not just in numbers of participants, but also knowledgeable instructors. If we all do our part to encourage the interest in barebow, whether shooting or teaching, it will make a difference.
> 
> ...


John,
Hoyt Day is coming up on May 15th, will you be able to make it? It wasn't the same without you.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I'm not expecting to.  Only reason I was in that area two years ago was the week of training I was helping conduct in S. Illinois. I sure miss being able to visit STL and the archery club in Forest Park though.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

nowheels said:


> we see more people trying it out but don't see many in competition. Looking through different shoot results your lucky to see two or three bb or trad.
> Are there more than a hand full of shooters that can post big numbers.


What John said, stay tuned. 

At the Texas State Indoor Championship there were 20 FITA barebow registrations and 17 for JOAD. Granted, a good chunk of those were from John's club and my club, both of us being coaches who compete with BB.

It's not going to happen overnight, but the numbers, and scores, are growing. The gentleman, from my club, who took 3rd place in the state, for senior male BB, has only been shooting for about 6 months. He was just a few points behind me. We have new BB archers popping up on almost a daily basis, here at X10. While I was the first to earn the BB bronze Olympian at our club (250), several others are working on their bronze. Most of whom have been shooting less than a year. Give us another year or so. 

One of our upcoming academy OR archers recently concluded that he will probably never make the Olympics, because of the other commitments in his life, and decided to strip all the gear off his bow to have more fun. He made a statement by buying a chrome Gillo G1L and placed 4th in the state with a pretty decent score for someone who's been BB for just a few months. We think he's using the glare off his bow to distract the other archers, lol.

We may not see a huge leap in BB numbers at outdoor nationals this year, either. For many of our academy archers, just shooting at the state level was a huge step. All in good time.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

I think one of the big things that can help with the growth of Barebow is a unification of rules between USAA and NFAA. The NFAA has two non-sighted finger release recurve divisions of which neither is compatible with USAA/WA barebow rules. That needs to get fixed. 

I know - here we go again.

Right now the numbers within USAA/WA barebow vs NFAA Barebow vs NFAA Trad are low enough that the good ol boys networks are preventing the unification.

But I am highly encouraged about the growth of barebow, because as the numbers increase, the momentum for unification grows. Its a tough job for coaches to have to know the subtle differences between three similar classes and teach to them or not to teach to them. Once there is a common set of rules, the job get a bit easier and less confusing for new archers to embrace Barebow.

Exciting times are coming


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## gitnbetr (Jan 17, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Absolutely. The equipment available to barebow archers is outstanding, and only getting better. No, we don't need much, but a riser and tabs and weights designed especially with barebow archers in mind make a big difference. One that better shooters will be asking for.
> 
> As for the generosity and sharing, all archers are pretty generous as a rule, but nowhere is that more true than in the barebow ranks. It's the division that competes for the love of the game, and maybe occasionally some bragging rights. We are happy to see great performances, whether it is our own, or our opponent's, and that's how it should be.


Now let's just keep barebow barebow instead of anything beyond those items John mentioned. Barebow IMHO should not include a stabilizer or anything more than those. I'm too old and mellow to fight the NFAA stab, but they have one less member because of it.


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

Just remember that we are on the clock. This is a probationary time for barebow archers and without significant growth it will not be supported. Having good barebow archers is a huge step to serve as role models if you will. Also, we do not have to create new archers. Stealing market share from recurve and compound works just as well as far as the metrics we are being judged by are being applied to us.


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

Mr. Roboto said:


> I think one of the big things that can help with the growth of Barebow is a unification of rules between USAA and NFAA. The NFAA has two non-sighted finger release recurve divisions of which neither is compatible with USAA/WA barebow rules. That needs to get fixed.
> 
> I know - here we go again.
> 
> ...


If this is really desired, then I think people should prove that they want it, or be encouraged to do this by the coaches and mentors on this thread..... register in NFAA Barebow class. show we have numbers. Who cares if somebody shoots a compound against you.
Along with petitions and letters, and talking to your state reps, this will also help to drive the change in NFAA.
(I registered for sectionals as BB, I will shoot a recurve, and stringwalk)


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

[


Mr. Roboto said:


> I think one of the big things that can help with the growth of Barebow is a unification of rules between USAA and NFAA. The NFAA has two non-sighted finger release recurve divisions of which neither is compatible with USAA/WA barebow rules. That needs to get fixed.
> 
> Pete,
> 
> What are they????


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

granite14 said:


> If this is really desired, then I think people should prove that they want it, or be encouraged to do this by the coaches and mentors on this thread..... register in NFAA Barebow class. show we have numbers. Who cares if somebody shoots a compound against you.
> Along with petitions and letters, and talking to your state reps, this will also help to drive the change in NFAA.
> (I registered for sectionals as BB, I will shoot a recurve, and stringwalk)


I want to respond to this - and you are correct - we need to continue to show numbers (for the reason Tom states) but I didn't want to get into the weeds of "inside barebow" here. Rather, just wanted to point out that archers, coaches and archer's parents are taking notice. The numbers are coming. I think I heard that over 170 archers shot barebow at this year's USArchery Indoor Nationals. That's an incredible number for just our 2nd year and only our 1st for JOAD barebow. An incredible number that will only grow in the coming years. Why? Because other archers saw barebow archers shooting alongside them, and that will have an impact.

Again, when people see GOOD barebow archers, some of them ask the question "why do I have all this stuff on my bow?" and they say "man, that's pretty cool." 

I hear it all the time. It's one of the main reasons I shoot barebow myself. Because in my 40+ years of archery, there is still no greater pleasure, no greater sense of accomplishment, than to hit what you are aiming at with a simple bow and arrow.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

rsarns said:


> Pete,
> 
> What are they????


Rick Stonebraker put an 8 page doc together with all of the different BB rules. While it's just a collation of already written rules, out of courtesy, I will seek his permission to have it posted on the TSAA website.


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> but I didn't want to get into the weeds of "inside barebow" here. Rather, just wanted to point out that archers, coaches and archer's parents are taking notice.


Pete brought it up 

As a side note. I Robin Hooded my arrow at the practice range in Vegas. I was proud and think it was my most famous 10 seconds of barebow shooting, since Alexander Khozin was shooting the target above mine, and I had requests for pictures from freestyle compound shooters. I don't think I've swayed anyone to shoot barebow though..


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Don't sell yourself short. With all the whiz-bang technology hanging off every bow on the line these days, I can assure you that anyone who shows up to an event with a barebow will draw some attention, whether they realize it or not.


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## Osmanthus (Dec 2, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> True. But this is also happening. We recently had an outstanding barebow seminar here in Texas, led by Rick Stonebraker and organized by Lynda LeCompte, who runs X10 Archery in Houston. Most of my JOAD qualified coaches are barebow archers. In Texas at least, many of our 4-H archers compete in barebow, which all but requires their 4-H coaches to know something about it.
> 
> So yes, it is a bit of a chicken-or-egg conundrum but I'm seeing growth not just in numbers of participants, but also knowledgeable instructors. If we all do our part to encourage the interest in barebow, whether shooting or teaching, it will make a difference.
> .
> ...


I was impressed by the number of barebow archers at that seminar led by Rick Stonebraker. I wish there are more barebow recurve archers in my area, but yes, we are growing.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Mo0se said:


> This is a great time to be a BB archer.


I agree, Barebow is growing very well in Europe and the average standard is getting better.

Four years ago myself and Katrin embarked on an ambitious coaching project with strong support from our Olympic head coach (We noticed the Euro countries dominating WA Field/3D had a serious Coaching program). The last 2 years Estonia's membership for Field and Target has doubled (mostly kids), every club in the country now has at least 5 qualified Coach's.


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## Wobbley (Sep 26, 2014)

Sidebar: So at my range people ask for advice on shooting barebow every so often. I keep my advice as basic as possible because I have no coaching experience or training. I figure better to just give real basic advice rather than bad advice. (Same way every time, focus on the target.)

What would be the best way to give good avice? USAA level 1 and Level 2?


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## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Azzurri said:


> the environment is shifting where people do divisions because they like what they are doing. That includes compound and Oly as well. I think that leads to people sticking with it longer. I think at the ranges where it seems like everyone does x, even if they produce high quality x people, the burn out rate is higher which I think is because when stressed the people who had less choice find it harder to see the joy in what they are doing.


Doing what you love definitely makes you practice more. I'm having a hard time getting motivated to practice Compound at all, versus Recurve where I'd love to shoot all day.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

steve morley said:


> I agree, Barebow is growing very well in Europe and the average standard is getting better.


Question for the Europeans: Do you have barebow as a category in your national indoor championships? I have been asking USA Archery if they would push for inclusion of barebow in World Archery indoor. The head of USA Archery said she broached the subject with World Archery and they told her the member countries did not have the interest. So she decided not to petition for it. What if Sweden and Italy and France and Estonia and Australia and Britain, etc, petitioned along with the U.S.? Barebow looks so strong in Europe (at least judging from the world field participation and results) -- I can't understand why it isn't included. Britain had a BB championship in December, I believe, and got 200 archers. Right?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Barebow at the WC events should be an ultimate goal IMO. Not just Field WC's but indoor and outdoor as well. But all we can do is keep growing it locally, and come up with the right format for each of the competitions. I feel very good about the format we arrived at in the U.S. for barebow at our Outdoor Nationals. I really hope other countries will follow suit, and then eventually that WA will adopt the format.

Wobbley, L1 and L2 instruction covers some basic archery technique but offers nothing about anchoring and aiming techniques, or equipment for barebow archery. That's where come up short in our current instructor information. Nothing on anchoring or aiming for barebow. There should be a coaching manual for barebow, just as there should be specific instruction for compound (how to use different releases, scope magnification, etc.). I hope that in the future, we have these materials and that coaches are certified in the discipline they are qualified to teach (NTS L3 Recurve, or L2 Barebow, or L4 compound, for instance). I have been saying this for some time - that just because someone knows how to teach recurve does not mean they are a qualified coach for barebow or compound, or vise-versa. This is something that really needs to be addressed in the future.

In golf, there are instructors that specialize in different areas of the game. Dave Pelz is a short game guru. Dave Stockton is a putting guru. Butch Harmon teaches the full swing, etc. I think the same is true in archery. The sport is so broad that I don't think it's reasonable to expect a high level coach to be equally qualified in all disciplines. If they are not coaching at a high level for a particular discipline, then they are a manager, and not a coach for that discipline.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Laurie Borealis said:


> Question for the Europeans: Do you have barebow as a category in your national indoor championships? I have been asking USA Archery if they would push for inclusion of barebow in World Archery indoor. The head of USA Archery said she broached the subject with World Archery and they told her the member countries did not have the interest. So she decided not to petition for it. What if Sweden and Italy and France and Estonia and Australia and Britain, etc, petitioned along with the U.S.? Barebow looks so strong in Europe (at least judging from the world field participation and results) -- I can't understand why it isn't included. Britain had a BB championship in December, I believe, and got 200 archers. Right?


There is separate (from Compound, Recurve, Longbow) national indoor championship for BB in Britain. It's shot in multiple venues on same day - that way the attendance is quite high.http://www.archerygb.org/support/operations/tournaments/entryforms/barebow_championships.php

Outdoor - its part of British target champs and last year just 5 men competed, 0 ladies.

http://www.archerygb.org/support/operations/tournaments/entryforms/british_target_championships_entry_form.php


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

In Estonia Barebow is fairly new, 3 years ago we had one female(never broke 200 on the 300 round so not the best person for tips), now we have about 8 adults (two of us have now won Euro Field/3D titles in Barebow and 3 BB medals at last IFAA world Indoors) and maybe 30+ kids developing very nicely.

It was tough getting it off the ground and learning this style with no experienced Archers to pass on tips. I was fortunate to get advice from our BB neighbors in Sweden/Finland and American cousins on these Archery Forums. Last two years they've accommodated Recurve Barebow at out WA 18m Nationals. Some guys in Latvia and Lithuania come up for competitions, some of the bigger tourneys the Fins and Russians play as well, so it's growing into a strong div but it will take time. It looks like we will have a full team for WA World Field champs in Dublin, it will be Estonia's first try at WA Field. Up until now it's been WA3D and we never had a full team.


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> There is separate (from Compound, Recurve, Longbow) national indoor championship for BB in Britain. It's shot in multiple venues on same day - that way the attendance is quite high.http://www.archerygb.org/support/operations/tournaments/entryforms/barebow_championships.php
> 
> Outdoor - its part of British target champs and last year just 5 men competed, 0 ladies.
> 
> http://www.archerygb.org/support/operations/tournaments/entryforms/british_target_championships_entry_form.php


You have to shoot 70 meters for barebow, no wonder there were only 5 entries and there was no female participants.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

consider this...before archery's comeback in the 1972 Olympics it seems it was all barebow for the 4 times it was included--ie--Paris in 1900,St. Louis in 1904,London in 1908 and Antwerp in 1928..

distances then varied from a low of 28 meters for the individual standard target round up to a high of 100 yards for the york round...

perhaps they should just go back to Barebow for the Olympics and have 2 divisions with the present format being signified as Freestyle..

wishful thinking i know..


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I think the argument that barebow should be in the Olympics is a great way to distract us and those who make decisions from what we can accomplish in the near term. I'm not willing to make it as I think it takes our eye off the ball, which should be to get barebow to full competitive status in all events in the U.S., and once that's done, other countries. Finally, if we can show barebow deserves to be contested alongside compound and recurve, I suspect WA will consider it for the WC's, but not before. So there really isn't much point in going down that road prematurely.

No, we need to start with encouraging people to first try barebow and to grow the knowledge base about teaching barebow. That's where we begin. Next is supporting the division by registering to compete, and showing the interest, and then from there other doors will open. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Arguing for too much too soon has really been the death of many previous attempts to grow barebow IMO.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

I'm curious about the logistics. I think I read there were 900? archers out Outdoor Nationals. If BB does grow to it's potential and 900 BB archers are added at National events, how many venues can handle those kind of numbers? Is BB growing itself into equal but separate?


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

steve morley said:


> In Estonia Barebow is fairly new, 3 years ago we had one female(never broke 200 on the 300 round so not the best person for tips), now we have about 8 adults (two of us have now won Euro Field/3D titles in Barebow and 3 BB medals at last IFAA world Indoors) and maybe 30+ kids developing very nicely.
> 
> It was tough getting it off the ground and learning this style with no experienced Archers to pass on tips. I was fortunate to get advice from our BB neighbors in Sweden/Finland and American cousins on these Archery Forums. Last two years they've accommodated Recurve Barebow at out WA 18m Nationals. Some guys in Latvia and Lithuania come up for competitions, some of the bigger tourneys the Fins and Russians play as well, so it's growing into a strong div but it will take time. It looks like we will have a full team for WA World Field champs in Dublin, it will be Estonia's first try at WA Field. Up until now it's been WA3D and we never had a full team.


Congrats on a full team for Dublin. You'll have great fun being with all those other barebow archers. I know it will take time to build the sport, but I am wondering about the hotspots, like Britain and Sweden and Italy. The barebow women at world field last time around told me they got to do fita field tournaments every weekend! The sport seems well-developed in many countries, including with good coaching. The U.S. isn't the only place a barebow movement is happening, and many people participated in the World Barebow Internet Championships when they were happening. Is anyone from the other countries making an effort to petition World Archery? If it is so popular in Europe, it doesn't seem like Europe needs to wait for the U.S. to ramp up... It just doesn't seem like that huge a leap to get WA to add BB to indoor since they have it in field and 3D. Outdoors may be harder because of the distances.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> I think the argument that barebow should be in the Olympics is a great way to distract us and those who make decisions from what we can accomplish in the near term. I'm not willing to make it as I think it takes our eye off the ball, which should be to get barebow to full competitive status in all events in the U.S., and once that's done, other countries. Finally, if we can show barebow deserves to be contested alongside compound and recurve, I suspect WA will consider it for the WC's, but not before. So there really isn't much point in going down that road prematurely.
> 
> No, we need to start with encouraging people to first try barebow and to grow the knowledge base about teaching barebow. That's where we begin. Next is supporting the division by registering to compete, and showing the interest, and then from there other doors will open. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Arguing for too much too soon has really been the death of many previous attempts to grow barebow IMO.


Absolutely. At the national level, we can ask the NGB to accommodate barebow to encourage growth in the sport - especially since USAA competes for dollars, archers and experience with NFAA. But that doesn't fly at the Olympic level. For the Olympics, the sport has to exist at the international level first. So, first things first, grow the sport.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

rambo-yambo said:


> You have to shoot 70 meters for barebow, no wonder there were only 5 entries and there was no female participants.


Men have to shoot 90m in wa1440....its hasn't been problem for longbowers for decades, so not sure why it should be problem for BB.

I sometime practise with longbow archer (good one-top 10 in UK) and his favourite distance is 90m/100y.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> Men have to shoot 90m in wa1440....its hasn't been problem for longbowers for decades, so not sure why it should be problem for BB.
> 
> I sometime practise with longbow archer (good one-top 10 in UK) and his favourite distance is 90m/100y.


Hasn't been a problem? You don't know how many people skipped the event because of the 90M distance.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

They have only allowed Barebow it's own Div for Indoors, I shot 70m a couple of years ago and shot with the sighted Archers, that may just have been because I was the only BB. it didn't take anything away from my enjoyment.


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

We definitely are making some pretty good strides for the popularity of barebow. Our two main battles are lack of distribution of knowledge (which I think is getting better), and we have no basis for a solid rule set foundation. Oly, and compound, are good in the latter, but we as barebowers are left in the dark. We really need to work on that to get the full potential out of this. 

The biggest reason for the surge in the US has definitely been the success and interest that the good shooters have had. Who has all seen Alans videos shooting for team gold and individual silver a few years ago? I know a lot of my friends have. I know my interest sparked even more with that and others off of me. Now I have some friends that weren't barebow shooters a couple years ago that are beating me here and there. (Young punks). Lol. I know one of them is getting complemented a lot lately and he is sparking some interest in some future barebow shooters. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Seattlepop said:


> I'm curious about the logistics. I think I read there were 900? archers out Outdoor Nationals. If BB does grow to it's potential and 900 BB archers are added at National events, how many venues can handle those kind of numbers? Is BB growing itself into equal but separate?


If it gets that big no way are they going to turn down that amount of revenue, likely it would become like UK and have it's own BB Nationals


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Warbow said:


> Hasn't been a problem? You don't know how many people skipped the event because of the 90M distance.


Of course I don't know that. I just said that reaching 90m with BB is not harder then with longbow that's all. And yes, for healthy adult there is no problem to reach 90m....it's physical sport after all


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Laurie Borealis said:


> Question for the Europeans: Do you have barebow as a category in your national indoor championships?


Yes. It's a new setup (I believe since this season), but last indoor season we had 95 active archers (at least 6 matches) in the indoor barebow category, 35 in the longbow, 45 in instinctive bow, 1646 in recurve and 440 in compound.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Laurie Borealis said:


> Question for the Europeans: Do you have barebow as a category in your national indoor championships?




http://southeastarchers.com/?p=279886


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

steve morley said:


> If it gets that big no way are they going to turn down that amount of revenue, likely it would become like UK and have it's own BB Nationals


Which was kind of my point regarding equal but separate. I'm of the impression from multiple threads that this is not the desired outcome in the US.


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

Warbow said:


> Hasn't been a problem? You don't know how many people skipped the event because of the 90M distance.


You absolutely have no clue, do you. Do you know how many quit because they took 90 meters away?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

itbeso said:


> You absolutely have no clue, do you. Do you know how many quit because they took 90 meters away?


I absolutely do not know.

See, how that works? If I don't know, I try to say just that. That's my point. I try not to make statements of fact about negatives I can't prove. 

Ar-Pe-Lo said that "Men have to shoot 90m in wa1440....its hasn't been problem for longbowers for decades, so not sure why it should be problem for BB" but he doesn't actually know that 90M isn't an issue for longbow shooters.

I know the basics of target archery history. I know that the long distances come out of the tradition of practicing for military archery, and that in the heyday of target archery in the 1800s the York round was the favorite round, shooting out as far as 100 yards with ELBs, so I'm not saying that longbowers can't make 90M. My objection was more to the form of the assumptions by Ar-Pe-Lo that no longbow shooter has a problem with 90, when, in fact, there could be many longbow shooters who have a problem with 90M and skip such competitions. I'm not saying there are, or how many. I'd just like people to think about what they are claiming as fact.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Warbow please..... I posted that in last BTC (british target champs) were only 5 BB archers. Then someone jumped in saying " but they were forced to shoot 70m, no wonder then". So I ask why this would be reason to skip competition for BB if longbowers can normally shoot this distance.

The fact is: it's not because the round/distance/venue/date it's because the BB in UK is least popular discipline....it's growing, but still way behind LB let alone recurve. That's all


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> Warbow please..... I posted that in last BTC (british target champs) were only 5 BB archers. Then someone jumped in saying " but they were forced to shoot 70m, no wonder then". So I ask why this would be reason to skip competition for BB if longbowers can normally shoot this distance.
> 
> The fact is: it's not because the round/distance/venue/date it's because the BB in UK is least popular discipline....it's growing, but still way behind LB let alone recurve. That's all


Different archers may come from different traditions/expectations/whatever. Not everyone loves the long distances, so 70 could cause some folks to say "not worth it to me". Or, some folks may really love the long distances and come specifically because of them. What seems obvious may actually be more complicated.


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## Laurie Borealis (Mar 10, 2012)

Greysides said:


> http://southeastarchers.com/?p=279886


Nice!


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

I think more likely it's that for most 70m h2h tournaments in the uk barebows compete with the recurves and that takes a lot of the fun out of it hence it's not a something on the radar.

The british target champs isn't something thats well supported either, there's no real fuss made of it and it passes most archers by completely un noticed. 
I didn't even know they had a barebow category and i shot nothing but barebow all of last year. 

It seems to me that in tge UK barebow (and to a degree longbow) are generally shot by non competitive archers who are happy to see it as a hobby.
If you want to compete you shoot recurve or compound as more often than not there's only ever one or two barebows at each shoot anyway.

I also find i can reach 90m with a lot less weight shooting barebow.
Hitting of course is another mather.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

toj said:


> I also find i can reach 90m with a lot less weight shooting barebow.


Well, you aren't limited in elevation angle to that of your maxim sight deflection...


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

toj said:


> I think more likely it's that for most 70m h2h tournaments in the uk barebows compete with the recurves and that takes a lot of the fun out of it hence it's not a something on the radar. *That true for sure*
> 
> The british target champs isn't something thats well supported either, there's no real fuss made of it and it passes most archers by completely un noticed. *Depend of which archers, the competitive ones are there.....sold out last year (240 archers)*
> I didn't even know they had a barebow category and i shot nothing but barebow all of last year.
> ...


 above


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

I can't find result of the last BTC (british target champs), where can I find the score on barebow? I would like to know how competitive they are? Thanks,


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Warbow said:


> Different archers may come from different traditions/expectations/whatever. Not everyone loves the long distances, so 70 could cause some folks to say "not worth it to me". Or, some folks may really love the long distances and come specifically because of them. What seems obvious may actually be more complicated.


70m is a leap for sighted archers that winnows the 100s of indoor archers down to 60-70 USAT types. It took me a year of practice to get competent enough to bother, knowing full well I wanted to make the leap. I would see Texas Shootout coming up and all but enter the thing and then stop before hitting send, because I didn't think I could make a decent score. So you could even want to do it, and be like, I dunno, that's far, I'm not good enough yet. Self selected. And I'm still not very good at it. 

If USATs were FITAs I'd have never done one cuz I have zero 90 ability. You might lose one or two purists with that change but nothing but 70 probably brings several people in instead, who didn't want to shoot 2 days or go out to 90.

What helped was we have a local winter series where you could put up some scores under some pressure. That's where I think the work needs to be done, is more sub-nationals -- including perhaps getting bb in USATs -- where it's not, I am going from our local series to whamo nationals against all the big names. The in between.

There already is some of this infrastructure indoors. You can do Vegas, Lancaster, the new Oregon thing, plus local stuff and state. Thus BB nationals last year was 46 indoor senior men and then 10 outdoors. That indoor number is only going to go up because there is plenty of opportunity to compete and prepare indoors.

But to increase the outdoor numbers I think the amount of those events available needs to go up. That's not really a problem locally in Texas but I'm not sure if there is as good of a ladder elsewhere, or even an intermediate step from Texas to national class. Whereas in Oly one can steadily ratchet up to the big kahuna. You wanna get the outdoor numbers up, the whole thing needs to feel less daunting. One aspect is the ladder and then I agree with you the other is keeping the distance reasonable. 50 would probably be better. But 60 is not insane. You go to 70 or beyond it will be less than 10. USA Trad goes out to 100 yds in one of its events, and has 3 people in recurve. That is a real test but also probably scares off 95%+ of interested parties. I think that's what really would happen with the trend line, and if we're wanting to increase numbers to be relevant and stay off the chopping block, that is not the direction to go, it needs to either stay the same or perhaps even get closer........


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

rambo-yambo said:


> I can't find result of the last BTC (british target champs), where can I find the score on barebow? I would like to know how competitive they are? Thanks,


Some results here.

This years available from here.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Right now there isn't a lot of incentive for a barebow archer to expend huge sums of money to travel around the country to compete in different events. Those that do have a immense passion for the sport. And many of them are great spokesmen by words and deeds for the field of barebow archery.

Indoors does draw a lot of barebow archers because there are multiple venues to choose from. Each venue attracts those that live closest to them. Nothing wrong with that. That is one of the reasons it is done that way - to attract more people whether barebow, recurve, or compound.

As for outdoors. This is one location, one shoot. Costs a lot of money and time to compete. There are a lot of incentives for the recurve and compound archers to go to it that have implications to what they do after the shoot and for months and years to come after that. For the Barebow archers, it is just the pure enjoyment of the sport. Right now there is nothing to look forward to after the event.

If World Archery allowed barebow to participate in the world championships, there will be a lot more barebow shooters at all of the outdoor events. Competition would become intense. But it is one of those chicken and the egg situation.

For now its a grass roots effort, build from the bottom up. All I can do is go to as many events that I can afford to go, improve as much as I can, and hopefully help to inspire others to want to take barebow as a serious alternative to Oly Recurve and compound. And those who want to learn, be willing to come along side and help them.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Warbow said:


> Different archers may come from different traditions/expectations/whatever. Not everyone loves the long distances, so 70 could cause some folks to say "not worth it to me". Or, some folks may really love the long distances and come specifically because of them. What seems obvious may actually be more complicated.


Of course you maybe right....but I go with obvious in this case. There is not many BB archers shooting target comps in UK general so it will be just few at BTC.....to me it seems obvious and logical.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

rambo-yambo said:


> I can't find result of the last BTC (british target champs), where can I find the score on barebow? I would like to know how competitive they are? Thanks,


here http://www.archerygb.org/tools/documents/btc2015results-%5B19086%5D.pdf


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

Greysides said:


> Some results here.
> 
> This years available from here.


I am not interested in who won but want to find out the actual score so I can do comparison. Are they shooting at 144 mm target at 70 m ? What is the average score? Thanks


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> here http://www.archerygb.org/tools/documents/btc2015results-%5B19086%5D.pdf


This page does not show score I am interested, I want to find out the actual scores for the tournament out of 1440 points max. Is there only one distance (70m) or 2 different distance (50 & 70m). Archery is one of the few sports you can actually compare score to see where you stand. I want to find out what do you mean by shooting 70 m no problem. Thanks


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

rambo-yambo said:


> This page does not show score I am interested, I want to find out the actual scores for the tournament out of 1440 points max. Is there only one distance (70m) or 2 different distance (50 & 70m). Archery is one of the few sports you can actually compare score to see where you stand. I want to find out what do you mean by shooting 70 m no problem. Thanks


This PDF file show everything. Scores and distances for both days....you just need to scroll down my friend


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

rambo-yambo said:


> This page does not show score I am interested, I want to find out the actual scores for the tournament out of 1440 points max. Is there only one distance (70m) or 2 different distance (50 & 70m). Archery is one of the few sports you can actually compare score to see where you stand. I want to find out what do you mean by shooting 70 m no problem. Thanks


Those results are indoor not outdoor, FITA 18. max score 600, 40cm ten ring multicolour target at 18m.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Mr. Roboto said:


> Right now there isn't a lot of incentive for a barebow archer to expend huge sums of money to travel around the country to compete in different events. Those that do have a immense passion for the sport. And many of them are great spokesmen by words and deeds for the field of barebow archery.
> 
> Indoors does draw a lot of barebow archers because there are multiple venues to choose from. Each venue attracts those that live closest to them. Nothing wrong with that. That is one of the reasons it is done that way - to attract more people whether barebow, recurve, or compound.
> 
> ...


Good points. 

And ladies and gents, I was hoping we could keep this thread positive.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

Over here most competitions are stand alone in nature and barebows and longbows compete for all of the same things.
We run a classification system and a national ranking so apart from trophy size it is pretty much on a par with the others.
The beauty of the class system is you shoot solely for score, I don't need to win to achive a goal in this system as the scores set and that attracts many archers with their own battles to contend with.

The National rankings are another thing but again ranking points are taken from these tournaments so poeple attend for points rather than wins.

It noteworthy that gents barebow numbers for 2014 and 2015 were 10 and 11.
Thats for the entire UK!

Barebow is not seen as another class here it's seen as a lower one, at best a sub division of recurve.
How you go about changing that i wouldn't know.

How are barebows viewed in other parts of the world?


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

Toj, I think you need to get out more. I don't know what area you are in, what rules you guys are shooting, what targets you are shooting. Something is a miss. I have friends over there that shoot barebow, and they would say otherwise. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm pretty much in the thick of GNAS / WA archery barebow in Northern England.
I know half the barebow archers with a national ranking. 
I call it as i see it.

Are your friends target or feild archers?


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> This PDF file show everything. Scores and distances for both days....you just need to scroll down my friend


I did not realize that barebow and recurve are shooting together, can you point out who are the barebow archers? How many arrows are the score based on? Thanks


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

rambo-yambo said:


> I did not realize that barebow and recurve are shooting together, can you point out who are the barebow archers? How many arrows are the score based on? Thanks


They aren't shooting together, scroll down to page 7
Everything will become clear.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

rambo-yambo said:


> I did not realize that barebow and recurve are shooting together, can you point out who are the barebow archers? How many arrows are the score based on? Thanks


Did you actually opened that link? there is clearly barebow men written (and its completely separate division fro recurve), you can see distances and number of arrows.....


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Has anyone seen the number of archers shooting barebow at indoor nationals this year !?! Holy smokes it's a lot. I applaud USArchery for offering a barebow division for our JOAD archers. Many of them are taking advantage of this and it's great to see.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Demmer said:


> Toj, I think you need to get out more. I don't know what area you are in, what rules you guys are shooting, what targets you are shooting. Something is a miss. I have friends over there that shoot barebow, and they would say otherwise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


toj is spot on....yes I know 1 club in London where half of the members are barebow archers (thank to heavy influence from certain Swedish lady  ), but normal numbers are: from 100 club members there will be max. 5 BB - usualy oldish gentlemen


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Looking casually at the US Indoor Nationals results, I noticed a very interesting trend in the JOAD barebow ranks...

In all but one division, the young ladies outnumbered the boys. And in many divisions, the scores were higher for the young ladies. 

This is some good stuff.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Hollywood works well for you guys


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yes, I think the Katniss/Merida effect is certainly in play here. But if that's what gets our young ladies shooting, then so be it. And seeing that they can compete with the boys in the barebow division (no surprise to me really) should only encourage more of them to give it a try.

I know my own daughter (15 now), despite placing well in the past several outdoor nationals events in recurve, chose to shoot barebow at our outdoor nationals in Decatur last year. Like many other young ladies her age, she is very busy in lots of activities. I think when she finally realized that her goal in archery was not to make the Olympic team, barebow was a very easy choice for her. Much more fun, and much less stress, not to mention a LOT less gear.


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## mhertwig (Mar 19, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> They tend to switch to barebow.
> 
> It just dawned on me at last night's JOAD/AA practice that 4 years ago when I was shooting a lot of Olympic recurve in preparation for 2012 Olympic trials, the majority of my 30 or so archers were also shooting recurve. The rest were shooting compound, and a few shot barebow.
> 
> ...


honestly I miss shooting barebow. In highschool i shot barebow and beat all of the olympic style shooters at 20 yards. Once we went outdoors is where I started to falter. I like to string walk. i am not sure how well that is regarded among barebow archers but I find it fun.


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## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> They tend to switch to barebow. .....
> 
> Archers start asking "why do I have all this stuff on my bow?" .....
> you don't need all those expensive and cumbersome accessories to shoot really great scores. And then the light bulb comes on.


I may resemble these comments....well, except the "great scores" part. 

I dabbled a couple summers ago, but other things got in the way. Fast forward to now and the interest is still there. Might be time to do something about it....


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Rat4go, have a look at the barebow scores rolling in from Indoor Nationals. That will give you an idea of where folks are at right now, and where you may fit into the fray.


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## rambo-yambo (Aug 12, 2008)

toj said:


> They aren't shooting together, scroll down to page 7
> Everything will become clear.


Thank you I see it now. I stopped after I saw the placement and did not far enough. Thanks


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Looking casually at the US Indoor Nationals results, I noticed a very interesting trend in the JOAD barebow ranks...
> 
> In all but one division, the young ladies outnumbered the boys. And in many divisions, the scores were higher for the young ladies.
> 
> This is some good stuff.


The young lady, Shelby, who is right on my tail in women's senior is 16. _**16*!!*_. She had 20# limbs and was drilling the yellow with her fatties.

It turns out that this talented young lady is a state, national, and world champion for NASP. So that got me to thinking... all of those NASP archers, who will be graduating, will need somewhere to go. Going from an unsighted Mathews Genesis to a barebow recurve is a natural progression. Shelby's first round score was 1 point away from an adult silver Olymian pin (259). She had never heard of it! 

This did cause another senior female BB archer to question whether archers that young (a cadet) should be able to shoot up two divisions, but that's another conversation.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Easy answer. Yes, they should, and that's fantastic for Shelby! 

And you're 100% correct about NASP-to-Barebow. That's where I think we will find a lot of our future barebow competitors in the U.S., and unlike many coming from the traditional ranks, the NASP kids will have big tournament experience at an early age. Scary when you think about what the state, national and even world NASP championships could potentially produce in the competitive barebow ranks someday.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

It's interesting how many are drawn in by tv and films then switch to recurve like the rest of the club, almost forgetting why they wanted to try it originally. 

Also here we have big waiting lists to join clubs so those caught up in movie fever have usually moved on by the time an opportunity comes up.

For all uk archery is a hobby before a sport most seem to follow WA and olympic format first and yet, though i'm not sure what the numbers are I'll bet target clubs out number field clubs 10:1.

In a lot of eyes if you shoot anything other than olympic recurve it's because you weren't good enough to shoot olympic recurve.
When i qualified GMB ( The highest classification ) it was followed with a lot of "yeah, barebow" comments 
When i shot national records i got the same.

Its sad but what can you do


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> Easy answer. Yes, they should, and that's fantastic for Shelby!


Agreed!! 



> And you're 100% correct about NASP-to-Barebow. That's where I think we will find a lot of our future barebow competitors in the U.S., and unlike many coming from the traditional ranks, the NASP kids will have big tournament experience at an early age. * Scary when you think about what the state, national and even world NASP championships could potentially produce in the competitive barebow ranks someday.*


Yes!!! That's exactly what I was thinking. The numbers are huge. Watch out archery world!


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Toj, the UK is your domain so I can't comment about it in the way you can. I have shot in England (UKIFAC) and Wales (WA field) and I'm wondering if you don't shoot NFAS or EFAA shoots then you may not be seeing the complete picture. I can well believe that WA circles are dominated by Olympic recurve, as they are here too in Ireland. NFAS and EFAA seem to be more hobby/weekend archers, to me, than dedicated target archers as you'd find in WA. In Ireland the comparable organisations have a fair share of barebow (in the wider definition of barebow). These shoot regularly at weekend shoots and maybe club nights but aren't going to be seen at outdoor target events, they'll be shooting field shoots for fun. In Ireland there is a small but growing group of WA BB archers (plus traditional archers of all styles) but in Northern Ireland, which provides a disproportionate amount of the GB field team, there are a lot of BB archers and some damn good ones. BB is much more closely associated with field archery so to find the BB archers you'll need to move away from the bigger population centres and to NFAS and EFAA/WFAA/SFAA clubs. I know some of the best BB archers in the UK shoot all three organisations shoots. I'm not sure of the current status but not too long ago Steve Partridge held several of the World records for IFAA in the Barebow recurve category shooting out to 80 yards so there are certainly some great British BB archers out there.
Again, I'm not in your shoes but for Ireland and the little I know of the UK that seems to be the picture.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

There's no doubt barebow is more popular in field archery, but field archery is not very popular in the north.
Thats the reason NI and Wales provide more Barebowers to GB than every where else, and we're grateful for it!

I have ten target clubs within a 25 min drive, The nearest field club is 45 min away.
We have one in county fita field shoot a year (and that looks dodgy going forward)

I think this is mainly down to WA only recognising barebow as a field division.

Maybe a dedicated barebow category across the board may help bridge some gaps.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

You guys should really try the outdoor barebow format we used at our US Outdoor Nationals this past year. It made for some great competition, esp. in the head-to-head matches.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

At this weekend's NW Indoor sectionals, the Friday night line had 42% of the shooters were barebow-recurve/trad. The rest were compound, and no Oly shooters. Okay, stats can be deceiving 5 of the 12 shooters that shot that night were Barebow-recurve/Trad. The competition was fierce. The lowest score was 251 of that group. It was pretty exciting to see that many barebow-recurve/trad people show up. I can't wait to see the final results to see how many total competed over the three days.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> It turns out that this talented young lady is a state, national, and world champion for NASP. So that got me to thinking... all of those NASP archers, who will be graduating, will need somewhere to go. Going from an unsighted Mathews Genesis to a barebow recurve is a natural progression. Shelby's first round score was 1 point away from an adult silver Olymian pin (259). She had never heard of it!
> 
> This did cause another senior female BB archer to question whether archers that young (a cadet) should be able to shoot up two divisions, but that's another conversation.


Dang, how cool is that? It's great seeing kids shoot that well. As far as shooting up two divisions, absolutely. If that's where she finds her competition, more power to her.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Dang, how cool is that? It's great seeing kids shoot that well. As far as shooting up two divisions, absolutely. If that's where she finds her competition, more power to her.


Yes. If she were in her division, she would be head and shoulders above everyone else. Where's the fun in that?

I welcome the much needed competition.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> Yes. If she were in her division, she would be head and shoulders above everyone else. Where's the fun in that?
> 
> I welcome the much needed competition.


(as John writes down a note to start grooming Lynda's competition...)


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## Demmer (Dec 1, 2012)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> toj is spot on....yes I know 1 club in London where half of the members are barebow archers (thank to heavy influence from certain Swedish lady  ), but normal numbers are: from 100 club members there will be max. 5 BB - usualy oldish gentlemen


Lol. Ok club to club members. No kidding bb is the lowest in average. I bet that's the case everywhere in general. I don't remember anyone saying it wasn't. This thread is about the growth because some see others shooting really well. Toj was saying bb is percieved inferior a lower class over there. I told him that he needs to get out a little more. I have friends over there that do well and no one thinks they are shooting an inferior class. They have some really good talent over there. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> (as John writes down a note to start grooming Lynda's competition...)


Haha. Yes! We invited Kim to come and shoot with us at X10, but she loves her coach. There's half a dozen of us BB senior gals. And more young uns. Iron sharpens iron.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

Demmer said:


> Lol. Ok club to club members. No kidding bb is the lowest in average. I bet that's the case everywhere in general. I don't remember anyone saying it wasn't. This thread is about the growth because some see others shooting really well. Toj was saying bb is percieved inferior a lower class over there. I told him that he needs to get out a little more. I have friends over there that do well and NO ONE thinks they are shooting an inferior class. They have some really good talent over there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


No one thinks that?
Have you polled the UK archery population?
I assure you lots (probably most) think that.

Everybody in the UK starts on barebow, many get to their club still shooting barebow and yet given 6 months there either fighting their clicker or shooting compound.

If we want more barebow archers then at the very least we have to address the issues at grass roots level and not just deny their existence.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Then I'd suggest you start addressing the issues at the grass roots by encouraging people to try barebow. Best way to do that is to show them good barebow archery. The rest usually takes care of itself.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Demmer said:


> Lol. Ok club to club members. No kidding bb is the lowest in average. I bet that's the case everywhere in general. I don't remember anyone saying it wasn't. This thread is about the growth because some see others shooting really well. Toj was saying bb is percieved inferior a lower class over there. I told him that he needs to get out a little more. I have friends over there that do well and no one thinks they are shooting an inferior class. They have some really good talent over there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Ok you must know better as you know few BB archers from here.


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## twofinger (Feb 12, 2012)

I know you guys are talking about recurve bare bow but I just wanted to share a picture of my robin hood from last night. I shoot compound bare bow and I shot a 276 on a nfaa 300 league my highest score since I had this shoulder problem. all of you non sighted shooters keep up the good work.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Outstanding shooting! Sorry about the arrow though. 

That single spot 5-arrow face is tough on arrows for a good shooter.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Nice shot, and nice group. It doesn't matter if it was a compound or a recurve. 

A couple weeks ago at our club's indoor league, we had a young lady shooting barebow compound and robin hooded also. What makes her shot so amazing was that she was shooting through a whisker biscuit for her arrow rest.

Anyways, nice shooting, nice group, and nice looking target


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