# Hinge or not



## Rugby (Feb 13, 2003)

Were you pulling to get the hinge to fire?


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## ajlynch154 (Feb 9, 2015)

Yes. I shoot it with a click. I kind of preload the bow at my anchor , let the dot settle try to let my hand relax all while pulling throug. Goes off super nice and easy when blank bail. Differnt ball game at 20 yrds


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

When I start feeling anticipation creeping in I like to break out a pull through release such as a Carter Evolution for a little while.


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## Rugby (Feb 13, 2003)

I have changed from push/pull to relaxing and have found the results to be significantly more consistent. The way you were shooting the index release, without back tension, which I take as not pulling to make the release operate.

It would appear when you "pull" you are not as accurate when you don't. I would try to do more work in shooting the hinge by relaxing the arm and hand. This should replicate the index finger technique which is working for you now but should allow the shot to stay in your back as well.

I hope this makes sense.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

This was my experience with the hinge also, practically verbatim. I shot one for about 7 months; Now, I do have to say I didn't suffer really bad and could actually do a respectable job with it. But in the end I fell prey to an anticipation issue just like you describe. I had what I call the good day/gray day syndrome: on a good day, I shot with no problems except maybe one or two "stalled" releases where I'd have to let down. But after that was an increasingly long string of gray days where I froze up on the shot a good 30-40% of the time, right as I knew the release was going to go off. I either had to let down or heave it off consciously by purposely rotating the hinge (basically a controlled punch). As time went on, the good days started dwindling and the gray days became more frequent.

I could always reset this, though, by getting out my Evolution and shooting with that for a couple days. Then the cycle would go on again for about another 3 weeks when this anticipation thing would creep back in.

For me, I finally figured out that my brain kept remembering that rotating the handle would make it go off. That would somehow bring that movement into my conscious mind and I was screwed. I couldn't purge it and get myself to forget about it again. I was then sort of doomed to cognitively executing the release and I was back to square one with what amounted to a form of target panic.

So this last time about a month ago I went back to my Evo + like I normally did and simply kept using it, my hinge went in the parts box. I haven't gone away from tension-style releases since (bought a Stan Element as a backup even), with no recurrance of any anticipation problems (little over a month ago at this point).

I theorize that, as ron W says, the back muscles are more amenable to subconscious use since they're used in that way by the body very regularly. The complex muscles in my arm and hand, OTOH, require more brain power so they get the conscious mind's attention much more readily. A pull-through, OTOH, can't be fired in this way, so my mind doesn't come along and screw with me on the handle. The release stays forgotten about. If all I have to do is pull with the back, I can do that without being distracted. Lo and behold.....

I have no idea why I have that problem and many many hinge shooters have zero problems with that at all. I figure it's lack of brainpower on my part, but it could just be who knows why I can't handle it.

So anyway, yes I had that exact same problem but, unfortunately, I wasn't able to resolve it still using a hinge and had to go to a different style of release. It may be a similar case for you? Some of us just can't get it with a hinge, is what I'm thinking....

LS


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

time to go back and do some blind baling...no sight, target. OR with a sight and target but fire with your eyes closed. In this case, you simply align, draw to anchor, acquire the float you like, then close your eyes and let the firing engine take over. You really don't care where the arrow goes, the idea is to learn your firing engine.


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## ajlynch154 (Feb 9, 2015)

Thanks for the answers. I do have a evo that I started with. But I load the bow so heavy now it goes off as soon as I come off the safety. Can't find my springs and it's turned tight. I'm just mind blown I'm doing as well as I am with my finger release. And no back tension. I love this target stuff and I am hooked!!! Man does it mess with ur head!!


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

Yeah that's one of the advantages of an Element, you don't have to change springs.....

As for target, I'm becoming addicted to shooting paper too, tho I haven't entered any shoots/tourney's yet. I'd love to show up at the Lancaster shoot one day with my Tribute in open class gear. Wonder if it'd get any looks on the line LOL...

LS


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

There are many levels of shooting ability and if you are happy where you are then sticking with the index finger release and using your current pull on the trigger will allow you to stay right there. 

I personally don't want to remain at my current level, I am a goog shooter but I want to keep getting better. You mentioned shooting a hinge for a year, well I have been doing it for over 4 years and I am still learning lessons that are allowing me to get more and more solid.


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## Tooltech (Jun 19, 2011)

I do not like hinge style release aids. I can get good results indoors however, outdoors is not good. I used a index finger / wrist strap for many years, mainly hunting. The index finger style works best with the trigger setup on the heavy side and the finger acting as a hook. You fire the bow with back tension.

My best results are with the hand held thumb trigger. I get the best anchor and I can shoot it well in the wind or at extreme angles. Once again I use my thumb as a hook and fire the release via back tension.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

there's a distinct reason so many different types and designs of release are made !. even as we get into the high dollar stuff, the various selections are still present. if it wasn't that everybody can use a different release better than another, we'd see only, or at least a much more unified offering of release design, as the price rose into the more advanced shooter price range of releases.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

it is an anticipation issue. Most likely if you go back to the trigger, you will eventually pick up punching issues again. I've gone through it switching releases, thinking that I needed to find the perfect release that fixes the problem, when the problem is between the ears. Switching releases takes away the performance pressure briefly, so you just relax and shoot. It's easy to get dialed in with a trigger because you have some of the key elements ingrained from shooting a release that makes you slow down and focus on a good release. That is temporarily carried over to the trigger. Then when you reintroduce the stress of the game, the anticipation comes back and you start to punch again.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Padgett said:


> There are many levels of shooting ability and if you are happy where you are then sticking with the index finger release and using your current pull on the trigger will allow you to stay right there.
> 
> I personally don't want to remain at my current level, I am a goog shooter but I want to keep getting better. You mentioned shooting a hinge for a year, well I have been doing it for over 4 years and I am still learning lessons that are allowing me to get more and more solid.


Not always true. While many good shooters may shoot a hinge or thumb, There those that have done well with the trigger.


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## cschwanz (Sep 10, 2012)

I went through something similar. Switched to a hinge last year and instantly scores improved a ton. Kept shooting it and was doing ok. Then at a 3-d event last year I noticed some target panic/shot anticipation creeping in. Messed me up the rest of the day and has been since. Started spot league this year and couldn't hold on target or was forcing the hinge to go causing misses. Turned the moon around to where it wont click anymore and not im shooting MUCH better. its kinda like when I first when to the hinge. I get it on target then execute my shot. Since it doesn't click, I don't know when its going to go off. When I heard the clicker I think I was telling myself "ok, its going to go soon. its on there now, maybe ill just send it" etc etc. 

Try it without a click for a little bit.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

for target shooting been shooting hinges for around 15 or more years ,sometimes i have your same problems and switching releases sometimes help ,my evolutions seem`s to help alot, but my go to when i get problems and to be honest the one i have always shot the best scores with is just an old chrome 2 finger stano hinge. that old 2 finger stano is just basic pull and shoot,nothing fancy,but it works the easiest for me. good luck


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

ajlynch154 said:


> Thanks for the answers. I do have a evo that I started with. But I load the bow so heavy now it goes off as soon as I come off the safety. Can't find my springs and it's turned tight. I'm just mind blown I'm doing as well as I am with my finger release. And no back tension. I love this target stuff and I am hooked!!! Man does it mess with ur head!!


perfect...draw, hold, find your sight picture, relax the draw hand. My element is setup the same way- let go of the safety and it fires. The release was originally setup for a bow with lower holding weight and since I still shoot that bow, I didn't change the sear setting....Quite surprising at first but I quickly got used to it.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

The untold story about hinge shooting (in my opinion.)

If you have a great grasp on the mental side of the process of hold vs. firing process it's easy to excel with a hinge rather quickly. 

If you don't have a great grasp on the mental side of the process of hold vs. firing process a hinge can give you fits. 

Whichever of these camps you fall in I believe this to be a fact; studying the intricacies of how *you* get a hinge to fire correctly and in a timely manner is what leads you to higher levels of success. In either case, you can't do it without a great deal of commitment and attention to detail. I feel so strongly about that statement that I will say it again; In either case, you can't do it without a great deal of commitment and attention to detail. 

.02


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## AJ the TP Guru (Jul 29, 2011)

As evidenced by several of the above replies, there are many differing opinions on the hinge, or any release for that matter.

Fwiw, I think you are doing the right thing. Just as someone above stated, whatever works.

You would also not be the first guy to recognize that shooting without back tension can work just as well as with it.

I've got a number of users who have done exactly as you have done, and are much happier in their archery lives as a result.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I am not going to indorse any release as a ticket to the highest level shooting out there, I have personally chosen a hinge as my release aid to commit to and master keeping a open mind to my goals and the lessons to be learned. I plan on being better by the end of the summer and move on to a new level.

I could have done it with any release but not if I just continued to try and force the pin to do things and then pull the trigger. So pick a release and begin learning the lessons or stay at your current level.

For those of you that try things and fail and abandon them more than likely you have issues deep in you that need addressed, a person should be able to pick up any style release and shoot at the same basic level, then the choice becomes which one slightly outperforms or is more pleasing to shoot with.


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## cncpro (Jan 29, 2009)

cschwanz said:


> I went through something similar. Switched to a hinge last year and instantly scores improved a ton. Kept shooting it and was doing ok. Then at a 3-d event last year I noticed some target panic/shot anticipation creeping in. Messed me up the rest of the day and has been since. Started spot league this year and couldn't hold on target or was forcing the hinge to go causing misses. Turned the moon around to where it wont click anymore and not im shooting MUCH better. its kinda like when I first when to the hinge. I get it on target then execute my shot. Since it doesn't click, I don't know when its going to go off. When I heard the clicker I think I was telling myself "ok, its going to go soon. its on there now, maybe ill just send it" etc etc.
> 
> Try it without a click for a little bit.


I have to agree with this. When I shoot a hinge with a click .... my release anticipation SKYROCKETS !!!!


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I make sure NEVEER to use a click during the "run the engine" part of the shot.
The click for me is simply a check that all systems are go.
Hitting the anchor, checking the level, all things done before the engine starts. 
It's just one of the things I check off on my mental shot sequence.
Draw to anchor: Check
Contact points met (nose, corner of mouth etc): Check
Bubble level: Check
Dot on target: Check
Release click: Check
Focus on X: check
Start firing engine: check
Arrow gone: check

Used in this manner, the click should never be startling, but reassuring.
If the click goes off before it's time, I let down.


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## Tony Bagnall (Sep 8, 2012)

I had a lot of problems shooting with a certain manufactures hing I am not going to call or name them because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the release> The problem was in my wrist. I kept away from a hinge because I though they were all the same. BUT! recently my wife, she shoot with a hinge all the time, changed to a solid brass hinge. Its heavier and she has far more control over her shot process. I tried her new release and I found I could shoot it with out the problems in my wrist. So could it be that the hinge that the OP has isnt the right one for him??


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

it's very possible that the necessary attention to detail and the commitment to learn to fire a hinge with back tension, is why the finger relaxation, or hand/wrist manipulation method came about. that grasp on the mental side of hold and the commitment to learning is one area that instigates a lot of confusion, at the blind bale.

the issue of anticipation with a click in the process, is mainly because people don't insert a short pause, at the click. this pause, if only a hesitation, separates the process into two parts and allows the click to be the indicator that the release execution begins now, rather than before the click sounds. essentially, as far as the actual release process is concerned.... with a click,..... what happens before the click, doesn't really matter at all. 
you have to alter your mental attitude about the shot process, when you use a click. the same elements are all there, but the emphasis on the importance of the elements before the click, should be reduced to almost nothing more than simply anchor, acquire the target and pull or rotate into the click. the real execution happens from the click to the shot breaking.
Mahly is exactly right, the engine starts at the click, not before it.
truthfully, the biggest problem with most people using a click, is that they start their "hard aim", before the click sounds.


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## Chris1ny (Oct 23, 2006)

ajlynch154 said:


> ...Two days ago I picked up my trusty index finger release shot today and yesterday. 629 and a 622 way better then my 608 to date. I'm not pulling throug just squeezzing the tigger with no back tension. I don't wont to give up on the hook but I feel like I've givin it a good go. I guess whatever works but I feel like I'm doing something wrong. Am I ??


If you already have a good go with the hinge release and your best score was 608. With the index finger release, you shot a 629 and 622. I think you already know the answer. What you are going to get here is other people's opinion. It's your own feedback and opinion that matters the most.


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## Donjr721 (Mar 25, 2013)

I have shot a hinge now for 2 years. I shot it in all of our state district indoors, and the nfaa indoor sectionals. To date I shot my highest indoor at sectionals. Three weeks later at our indoor state I decided to use my trigger. I set a personal record that weekend. The following weekend at indoor nationals, I beat my best again, with my trigger. In the past I had punching issues, went to the hinge, stuck with it, helped me not punch. In practice I switch back and forth. Whichever is working best for me is what I will use.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I just switched back to my hinge. For some reason, I shoot better outdoors with my hinge.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

It is funny how things work, I showed up at Ft Benning and got to my range to shoot and stepped up to shoot my first shot after the guy that I had been drawn to shoot behind and I had already dialed in my sight and was ready to go. Well he came to full draw and was shooting a hinge and I watched him float and I saw the hinge rotating a little and then "CLICK FIRE". I went ahead and shot my shot and got my 10 and for the next two days I watched this guy Click Fire his hinge to second place in Semi pro shooting 24 up and it was a good reminder that even though we strive to perfect our methods there are some people who can totally break every rule in the book and kick our butts doing so.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

it's almost discouraging, isn't it ?. !! I've seen a few of those guys, too !. 
the crazy thing is that when you try to talk to those guys about the "shot process", they haven't a clue what it all about,... they simply, "haul back and shoot". makes you wonder just how much time some of us waste getting all particular about analyzing our shot !.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Believe me I wonder the same thing all the time, but I guess that I have came to terms with myself that I enjoy thinking about stuff and working on things so it is just part of me. 

I actually think it is a lot like studying, i can remember making A's in math all the way up to my freshman year in high school and then I flunked a test in algebra and my dad asked me a simple question "So did you Study?". Hell no I didn't study because up to that point I hadn't needed to study and from that moment on I studied for all my math tests and actually became a math teacher. I think guys like the one I described have never hit the wall in their archery career where they walk on a course and feel like the people in their class are actually way better than them, this guy may win out of semi pro this year and then he will be on the same course with the best stinking pro 3d shooter that has ever lived and at that point he may totally hit that wall dead on and suffer for the first time.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

that's very possible. it's easy to get caught up in doing good in a "less than top level class" as you gain that upper level of competence. too many people use those lower class to bost their egos, instead of simply, getting their feet wet.
i'm not saying the lower levels shouldn't exist, they are there for a good reason....that said, I don't have any idea, other than the way you move out of that class presently, that might work better. obviously, if you're good enough to win in that class, you're most likely ready to step up, ...i'd hate to see a "number of competitions in the lower class", be the advancement criteria. that kind of throws the guy that maybe just isn't all so good to the wolves, in a literal sense !.
in my years in speed skating we had the same tier separation, class A and class B skaters competitions. being that it was a sport of highly physical orientation, and not everybody that wanted to race had the potential to be ranked a "class A skater, many skaters never got out of class b, unless they wanted to move up, personally. this was always OK, because the better skaters would eventually win and move on, anyways leaving room for the others to have that same chance.
I guess in actual application of that type of system, it's the same process. although I have seen a fair amount of sand-bagging going on in a system like that, when applied to archery shoots and leagues.
just a little personal trivia,....
I went through that process in spot shooting, back when the NFAA had a two tier classification, based on certified NFAA league scores. I believe they dropped that system in about 1980+/-,...it was at the same time they went from a single face to a 5-spot face,.... what-ever year that was. 
the very first tournament I was in, back in '76 was the Milwaukee Sentinel Sports Show tournament. the "Sentinal", "Vegas" and "Cobo Hall", were the 3 big spot tournaments in this country, at the time. I shot in Class B Freestyle Unlimited, according to the rules. if I recall, a 292 league score average, was the breakoff, between class A and B. I had a league average of 288 and I shot way beyond my self, at the tournament,.. finishing with a 296 in class B, consequently winning my class....I was happy to be able to move on to class A, I never thought it would happen so soon !. the irony of it, was for whatever reason, when they published the results in the Milwaukee Sentinel newspaper, they had me placed in about 30th. place, in Class A, because I guess I was the only shooter that year in class B, to shoot above the break-off point, score wise !.
it didn't matter, I brought my scores in and the mistake was corrected, luckily the guy that they awarded first place in class B to, was a buddy that was shooting right next to me on the line, he actually scored second place in class B, and he obviously recognized the mix up, as well, so it worked out peacefully. ...as a matter of fact, it was he, that went to the Sentinal Office and told them they had it wrong!. I never even knew he went there, until a few weeks after the mix-up was corrected !.
so my first exposure to competitive spot shooting started out in pretty good experience, and then I quickly evolved into a "just another shooter", as I was "thrown to the wolves", comically speaking,.... right off the bat !. but that's OK, I never expected to shoot as good as I did and I was extremely happy with the fact that I did shoot that well, in my first tournament !


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