# Pacific Bow Butts



## Indianbullet

Wow thats not what I was hoping to hear at all, I almost dropped cash on enough to re-establish a field round on a course I'm trying to get cleaned up.

Do they need to be kept wet in order for them to swell up as some butts do?

I was just looking at these huge bag targets today at Sportsman's 
warehouse they were $60 each and appeared that they would make real good targets for a field round if you took care and built sheds for them etc


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## AZBowhunt

*Our findings.*

We ordered a complete course of PBB about four years ago ad they lasted us two seasons. We ordered another complete course last year and they lasted about 4 months with the same amount of use. Pass throughs in no time. I am not sure what the deal is, but they are not the same quality as the first batch. Keeping them wet does not appear to be a factor. 

We have recently switched to making the "eternity targets" as described in the DIY section, and they are working great. In order to simplify the installation, we made them using 3/4" plywood for the sides and 2x4's on the top and bottom. We then wrapped them with trampoline fabric and they are working great.

Two years ago I would have recommended PBB, but not anymore. In addition to the quality, communication with PBB has been difficult at best and what I would consider non-responsive at the worst.

Martin Martin
Flagstaff Archers - AZ


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## Ohio_3Der

watching this one.


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## JPE

Indianbullet said:


> Do they need to be kept wet in order for them to swell up as some butts do?


I guess the excelsior targets actually benefit from a little moisture because it causes the fibers to swell which makes the butts even tighter. These PBB's are made from compressed straw and moisture appears to have the opposite effect. Some of the arrows that are passing thru come out coated in a brown slime, as if the bales are rotting inside. We could take additional steps to help them stay dry, but keeping them totally out of the weather is a near impossible task for an outdoor target.

I'm not convinced that our issues are completely related to moisture though, because we still get pass thrus when the bales dry out and some of the arrows come out with dry straw pieces stuck to the shaft.

These targets stopped arrows and pulled like iron on day one last fall. Less than a year later they're more like shooting into a feather pillow.


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## Bobmuley

My personal one lasted six years.


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## BAArcher

Mine had arrows buried to the nock in a few days, I got tired of refletching arrows.....


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## jre4192

Sounding like more bad than good from these things.


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## red1691

That is all we have on our Range! Bid butts 30 yards and less, with Supper Butts 35 out to 80 yards. A few butts on the range are 5 years old most were replaced March 2009. Our range is in a county park and some get hammered hard. Yes, our target sheds are covered, and yes we do have to reband some ever year that get used more than others. Some shooters just stand in front of the 3 closest one to the parking lot and will not walk the range for heck...... I have 2 in my back yard from the first order uncovered still holding good in the sides and corners. The middle of one is getting some rot but 5 years, I Love them!!


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## Bowtechie

I wonder if you can tighten them up some how. Ratchet strap or banding strap.


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## JPE

Bowtechie said:


> I wonder if you can tighten them up some how. Ratchet strap or banding strap.


I've read that some clubs do re-band them after a few years and are able to pick up another year or two of use out of them that way. I guess that's an option for us as well, but ours aren't even a year old yet.


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## red1691

*Yes Re-band!!*



Bowtechie said:


> I wonder if you can tighten them up some how. Ratchet strap or banding strap.


Yes you can re-band, that is how we get the extra life out of ours. Our club has been around since 1959, we have banding equipment that we have gotten over the years. we use 1 1/4" steel band, we use to use one band in the middle(worked fine) but now we use 2 like PBB do. It gives 2 friction point to slow the arrow down instead of only 1 point of friction.


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## AKRuss

Our club switched to the Block 4' X 4' foam range bales several years ago and I can't imagine going back to excelsior or Bow Butts, both of which froze up in the winter. The Blocks are NOT cheap.


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## Bowtechie

red1691 said:


> Yes you can re-band, that is how we get the extra life out of ours. Our club has been around since 1959, we have banding equipment that we have gotten over the years. we use 1 1/4" steel band, we use to use one band in the middle(worked fine) but now we use 2 like PBB do. It gives 2 friction point to slow the arrow down instead of only 1 point of friction.


Great info. Thanks!


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## gryfox00

Our course is currently the largest morrel bags, I would like to set it up to try some field archery shoots. We mostly run 3d shoots but would like to try some field archery shoots. Has anybody used the large morrels or where can you get the excelsior bales?


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## Ohio_3Der

There is a place in northern Ohio that may not be that far away from you that sells excelsior bales. I may be in the target market real soon again myself, so I'm also looking for that number. If I find it, I'll pass it on.


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## gryfox00

thanks I appreciate the thought


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## JMJ

gryfox00 said:


> Our course is currently the largest morrel bags, I would like to set it up to try some field archery shoots. We mostly run 3d shoots but would like to try some field archery shoots. Has anybody used the large morrels or where can you get the excelsior bales?


You can definately get by just fine with the Morrell Outdoor Range bags.
We've done it for a couple of years now.

However, there are a few targets where you'll want larger butts.
60, 65, 80, and the Bird are where you really need the larger ones.
We now have 4'x4' Big Green Monsters on these lanes.
Next will be the 36 & 32 yard fans where double faces are nice to have.


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## Fla_lefty

We have used PBB and excelsior targets. The PBB we have under a roof held up well. We have a public range that gets heavy use. The ones exposed to the rain and sun rotted out and shot through in a few months. We originally went to banding to tighten up the targets but that was marginal. We since went to putting a wood frame around the target to hold in the sides and using all thread to pull a board down on the top. That seems to get them tight and you don't get the "rounding" of the butts like you do with the bands.

The excelsior bales we tried worked fine and a little moisture causes the fiber to swell and tighten up. They came with baling wire which was quickly broken when arrows hit them. We ended up putting banding on all the excelsior bales. Suggest if you go with excelsior you put bands on them new to save the extra work later.


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## rsw

Quality from butt to butt seems to be quite different. I shot a field tourn. on a full range of 42 targets, all new, and they didn't seem to hold well across the field. Most pull well, but arrows penetrate deeply and some were beginning to pass through also. I would consider other options if it were my decision.


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## gryfox00

I ran a triathalon this past wknd, 20 3d unknwn, a 300 15 target field archery, and 10 rounds of 3 spot indoors, everbody loved it. I ran the field archery on our outdoor range morrel bags. The biggest issue I found, was that I couldn't run double 50 cm faces. To run an official NFAA shoot I figure we will have to double up the bags for the 50 cm faces and for the short 20 cm face walk up. I'm thinking I could get away with it since I am doing the 65 yrd shot not the 80yrd .Thanks for the input.


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## Bwana

My personal PBB targets are 3 years old and doing great. I have them under cover, shoot them hard ...... not even close to pass thru's. The ownwe told me, "they would be the last targets I bought". I don't believe that:wink: but if I had bad luck with mine ... I'd be calling him on it


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## Silverbowarcher

Our range has 66 of these bales. Like said before, quality varies from bale to bale. We have some that were purchased in 07, and still holding up good, and have some that were bought in 09, but not installed until this year and they are soft. Most of the bales we bought in 08 are still on the range, but many will need replaced next year.

Also, it depends on what arrow people are using. these bales do not do a good job of stopping small diameter heavy arrows like x 10's or navigators, but work well for larger diameter arrows. We back our bales up with 3/4" thick rubber belting, which helps us get more life out of the bales. once arrows start to penetrate into the rubber, we change them out. On average, I would say expect 2 year life, with heavy useage.

We are currently looking for some alternatives, but everything else out there is considerably more $$$.


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## jre4192

Hey, just want everyone to know that we were able to get to the root of what was causing the problem with our targets. 

Check out what we found and were able to do. 


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1292941&highlight=pacific+bow+butts


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## pacwest

jre4192

You should of mentioned that we the manufacture replaced them at our cost even though the club installed them incorrectly. And the fact the we was contacted on the 30th of June and the targets arrived in time to install for the Ohio Archers Association State Field Championship on July 17/18. 

pacwest


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## Ohio_3Der

I want to chime in here with the "rest of the story." 

We, the Clinton County Farmers and Sportsmen's Association in Wilmington, Ohio, purchased a 14 target set of Super Butts from PBB in September of 2009. We didn't get roofs on the targets before winter set in, so we decided to place tarps over them to get them through the winter. We thought we were helping the situation, but we were incredibly wrong. By the time Spring rolled around, we basically had ruined targets. I guess the tarps didn't let the butts breath and they basically fermented all winter long like silage even though we thought we tarped them loosely enough that the tarp was only touching the top of the target and the corners of the tarp were staked in a tent like fashion. 

This is the wrong thing to do!! This doesn't work, and you will ruin your targets if you do this, so heed my advice. 

Well, fast forward to May of 2010. We had a local field shoot planned and we had a few shooters out to shoot. We were getting passthroughs on some of the targets at an alarming rate. Since we had the OAA State Field shoot on July 17/18th, I basically went into panic mode. After mulling it over for several days, I decided to contact Karl Plato of Pacific Bow Butts. I assume that's Karl behind the moniker of "pacwest" in this thread. Karl did have a few questions as we talked. We basically laid it all out there and let the chips fall where they did. Karl saw that I was in a pickle, analyzed our situation, investigated our target woes through a series of pictures I sent to him, them made his "ruling." 

Bottom line, we, the club, ruined the targets and this was no fault of the manufacturer, Pacific Bow Butts. Karl went above and beyond my wildest expectations and sent us 14 new targets for the price of shipping. Although shipping was pricey ($800, that's from Oregon to Wilmington, Ohio for almost a ton of target), we were thrilled to get the targets. Karl was a pleasure to deal with, and I'd recommend the experience to anyone. The customer service he provided was beyond comparison. I could tell that my issue was the first thing that Karl tackled each day we conversed. He talked to me before 6:00 am his time each day that I heard from him! 

Our new butts have been in new target stands now for about two months and they are doing great. Nice straight arrows, easy to pull, and a huge flat surface for target face replacement. Although I was cussing the targets for a while there, I've seen the light now, and I think these targets are the bomb. The best target out there that is big enough for field set ups for the money without question. 

If anyone has any questions about the targets, my experience with the company, or anything else, feel free to pm me. 

Jeremiah McDowell
Clinton County Farmers and Sportsmen Association


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## pacwest

Wow!! To bad you members on this forum can't put things into perspective instead of beating around the bush.


rsw
What range was this? If all the backstops were new and you claim that you were shooting through I think your nuts. Crossbows won't passthrough our new backstops.

BAArcher
This was a new type of target that I sent you 5 years ago for you to test on your hootershooter. Get it right.

AZ Bowhunter.

Your club took delivery of 19 Super Butts in summer of 07. Then you had another 14 delivered in April of 09.

The 2 photos of the same target that you sent me after requesting photos for 3 weeks shows me that the cover was from the 07 order. Also, you sent an email indicating that your president had one of the 09 targets and was shooting through after 400 shots. I emailed you many times for him to call me or send a photo of the target. (nothing) While all this was going on you wanted a quote for 6 covers at one time then 20 covers. Now, I don't know what's going on with your club, but to post negative crap like this makes me wonder. I'll be posting the photos of the target that you sent on the manufactures forum soon to show viewers how many shots this target has taken.

I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS UNTRUE CRAP ANYMORE. I'LL BE MONITORING THIS FORUM FROM NOW ON TO SET THE FACTS STRAIGHT AND BE POSTING IN THE MANUFACTURE PORTION. BRING IT!!!!!!!!!! 

PACWEST


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## Don Schultz

I was very happy with some bought a few years ago. They held up very well, INDOORS. I put one out in the yard, raised on a stand with a cover, and it was done in a few months.


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## zestycj7

The club I belong to has 2-28 target field courses, a valley range and a mountin range and we use carpet bales.
We just replaced the bales on the valley range and practice range about 2-3 months ago. I think the last bales lasted for about 5 years.
Our practice range has bales setup from 10-80 yards at 5 yard intervals.
We get the bales from a company out here in So. Ca.
If you want the company info I can get it for you.
Don.


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