# Pros don't come here because?



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I've heard the stuff about them being argued with and more, but stepping back, I believe the really good ones are above and beyond us. No doubt they get/got burned out real quick from answering the same question a "gazillion" times. And along with answering a "million" or two questions they get frustrated and possibly blow up. This not something a sponsor wants to see.

So my computer went on the blink, modem screwed up. Down nearly a week and I come back to see the same ole same ole and it came to me what Pros might see, go through.....


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Congratulations sonny. You solved the mystery.


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## scootershooter1 (May 6, 2013)

cbrunson said:


> Congratulations sonny. You solved the mystery.


Nailed it.....


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

sad but true,we amateurs come here i guess looking for a glimpse of hope to get us to the holy grail only to be let down.its funny,griv will come on here to defend his name but if a AT member askes him a question like "what do you think of hinge speed"? it will go un answered.yes i know these guys are busy,they are pros.they make there living doing something all of us only can dream of accomplishing someday but would a few minutes really hurt? some will say yes, some no,im sure the defenses will come but do any of these guys remember where they all came from and how they started? some do,some are great.take darren christenberry for example.one hell of a nice guy.friendly, always takes a minute for everyone.but unfortunately thats the only one i know and can name.i'll keep being an amateur wanna be and be as helpful as i can be to those who want to acheive more.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

GRIV cam back to defend himself after he was slated. He doesn't have to come here to answer someone's question and then get slated. This is why they don't come here. 
You sound like you think they owe you something. Which they certainly don't.


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

duc said:


> GRIV cam back to defend himself after he was slated. He doesn't have to come here to answer someone's question and then get slated. This is why they don't come here.
> You sound like you think they owe you something. Which they certainly don't.


lol...the first defender from the land of oz..i am a griv fan.love what he does for our sport of archery and last chance products.he along with others started AT.do i think the pros owe us nobodys something? absolutely not.would it be nice if they chimed in every so often? hell yes it would.you mean you wouldnt peak interest from a post from griv or another pro?.we buy the products the pros push,support the retailers that they have plastered all over there shirt like a nascar driver on sunday and you say i sound like they owe me something? they dont owe me anything duc.but there attributes would be nice from time to time.since you are so quick to defend the professional archer what has your pro done for you lately?


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Err.....nothing. Because I don't ask. But others do and we haven't scared any off. In Oz we don't have this problem on our forum. Very small archery population. We for the most part know each other. You don't want to be a keyboard hero on Saturday and stand beside the guy you just slagged off on Sunday. You lot can do that because you feel so immune. No disrespect intended, that's how I see it.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

duc said:


> ......You sound like you think they owe you something. Which they certainly don't.


With all due respect, I think they do owe us something. It's the archers on this site that support target archery by buying the bows that their favorite pro archers shoot. The manufacturers can charge crazy prices for target bows because we will pay them. Part of the decision on a new bow is how successful the pro's are with that bow. So if we don't buy them, the pro's don't get to shoot professionally. 

Obviously not all target archers are on AT as much as us addicts, but we are certainly a significant percentage. And I think the manufacturers and pro's do owe us a little more of their attention than they are currently providing.

JMHO,
Allen


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

If I was a pro I wouldn't want to come here and argue with the thousands of weekend warriors that know everything here.


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

aread said:


> With all due respect, I think they do owe us something. It's the archers on this site that support target archery by buying the bows that their favorite pro archers shoot. The manufacturers can charge crazy prices for target bows because we will pay them. Part of the decision on a new bow is how successful the pro's are with that bow. So if we don't buy them, the pro's don't get to shoot professionally.
> 
> Obviously not all target archers are on AT as much as us addicts, but we are certainly a significant percentage. And I think the manufacturers and pro's do owe us a little more of their attention than they are currently providing.
> 
> ...


thank you allen! great and very true perspective i appreciate your honesty


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I think the growth of social media (Facebook)has given many pros an outlet they can control.
If anyone argues their point, they can delete their post and ban them. Here they are simply members with no extra rights.
While it can be debated as to whether or not they owe us anything, they are doing what some are asking, just doing it on Facebook where they can control the content.
They still get the same questions over and over, but it's their sandbox, and they decides who gets to play.
They give good advice, but you rarely see them enter any sort of debate to back up their position if questioned.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

the benefits to FB, insta, twitter, etc is the lack of anonymity. If I, Griv, Steve, Jesse, or Greg Poole, etc put something up that sparks discussion we know exactly who is providing input and what their level of involvement is. Things remain civil, not free from disagreement, but civil because we put faces to the names and all know who the other pro's are that are pitching in. Its not about controlling the content...


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

Iowa shooter said:


> If I was a pro I wouldn't want to come here and argue with the thousands of weekend warriors that know everything here.


thats the beauty of AT,the pros dont have to.no obligation what so ever.i wouldnt argue with anyone either we've all learned how to weed out the BS on this site and find good knowledge.only time you hear from a pro on here is when a new product is being pushed.reo wilde posted a lil while back on the hbx.he didnt get slated.no argument there.couple AT members asked valid questions.were they responded to? maybe thru pm but no posts on the thread.like i said im my previous post the pros dont owe us anything but would a little attribute really hurt? i buy the 1000$ bows the 300$ sights the take a beaten when i sell the stuff a year later.wouldnt hurt them one bit


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

One can easily change their names on Facebook.
I was actually reading a post from "God" the other day.
The "PRO" section requires proper identification, yet goes unused.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

You chose the sport. Don't complain about the cost. And dont expect anything from anyone. It only leads to disappointment. They worked had to get to wher they are they also spent lots of $$$$ when they started. They also made sacrifices. So I think it's the height of conceit to think they "owe" you something.


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

i can complain about the cost all i want.i love archey and anyone who thinks the prices of the stuff we buy are not crazy at times is making alot more than me.buying a new target bow for 1200$+ and selling it 2 years later for 600$ if your lucky isnt absord i dont know what is.yes i picked my sport but i also earn my money and have put my time in to earn my achievments


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

yup you can... but if you are trying to gain sponsor support and market your "brand" as an athlete you don't; you keep things at a level where people can find you. All the pro's i've ever dealt with on facebook have always been under their personal names or their athlete page. Depending upon whom you are trying to reach and how well you know them facebook can be the fastest way to get questions answered reliable/correctly. If you are looking for reliable information its a good outlet-- thats where i'm leaving this. yall have an answer(several actually) as to why pro's and upper level shooters do not frequent here


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Iowa shooter said:


> If I was a pro I wouldn't want to come here and argue with the thousands of weekend warriors that know everything here.


Yep. I agree.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't know how Pros "owing us" came about, but that's so much BS. Hey, they practice their butts off, travel thousands of mile (other countries even) and none of the Pros on my Facebook page shoot a Pearson (Dave Cousin and Tim Gillingham to name two). When they give out information I sure pay attention..

Dave Tetrick, Ben Pearson owner, pays attention. If some Pro hands out something note worthy Dave emails it to his staff shooters. 

And Pros are no different than us, just on a higher level. Yep, one has his or her manner of tuning or arrow building and the next Pro has their methods. So we see this, buts it's not a disagreement, just what works for them....


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

yeroc said:


> i can complain about the cost all i want.i love archey and anyone who thinks the prices of the stuff we buy are not crazy at times is making alot more than me.buying a new target bow for 1200$+ and selling it 2 years later for 600$ if your lucky isnt absord i dont know what is.yes i picked my sport but i also earn my money and have put my time in to earn my achievments


Of course, you can complain all you like. But again you chose the sport. I to chose the sport, but I don't need to complain about the cost. NOR do I EXPECT anyone to pander to me because of it.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

aread said:


> With all due respect, I think they do owe us something. It's the archers on this site that support target archery by buying the bows that their favorite pro archers shoot. The manufacturers can charge crazy prices for target bows because we will pay them. Part of the decision on a new bow is how successful the pro's are with that bow. So if we don't buy them, the pro's don't get to shoot professionally.
> 
> Obviously not all target archers are on AT as much as us addicts, but we are certainly a significant percentage. And I think the manufacturers and pro's do owe us a little more of their attention than they are currently providing.
> 
> ...


I disagree. Everyone I know picks their bow/equipment for a myriad of reasons (great deal, love the color, feels great, wife bought me the shirt, . . . ) Many of us have pro's we follow to some extent but I think it is genuine appreciation for their skills. But we know at that level it's not the bow. They shoot what they shoot largely because they get paid contingency money to shoot it. They're all good bows.

The thing about getting into a medium/advanced level is you get a taste of getting in the zone shooting in the high percentile, and at the same time the sobering reality that getting to that highest level may always be out of reach. 

As for why pro don't post more here, to me that's easy. It's their day job. Do you as an accountant spend you weekends posting on CPA-Talk? Most of the high level amateurs start posting quite a bit, then just get tired of the repetition. Understandable.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Yeroc. Your first words got my back up. Hence the terse response. No disrespect intended, though I still stand by what I've said. 
Sonny, and also no disrespect to you also. You need to be able to except all replies to your thread. You've been here long enough to know the answer to your own question. Is it something that you really need to ask or do you genuinly not know the answer???


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Just a guess here, cuz I don't really care too much about the debate, but I suspect the redundancy aspect is more true than arguments causing them to stay away. Sure, some lower level pros catch flak over some of their "do it like I do it" posts, but every time I've seen an accomplished pro post on here, they receive mostly praise.

Maybe it didn't used to be that way, but it seems that way since I've been on here.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

duc said:


> Err.....nothing. Because I don't ask. But others do and we haven't scared any off. In *Oz* we don't have this problem on our forum. Very small archery population. We for the most part know each other. You don't want to be a keyboard hero on Saturday and stand beside the guy you just slagged off on Sunday. You lot can do that because you feel so immune. No disrespect intended, that's how I see it.


Yeah, Oz...wonder why he never comes on here anymore.

Say what you will about the Tournament Archer magazine, they had some great articles by pros. That kind of magazine was really beneficial, not because of the reporting on the shoots, but for the information those pros provided.


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

duc said:


> Yeroc. Your first words got my back up. Hence the terse response. No disrespect intended, though I still stand by what I've said.
> Sonny, and also no disrespect to you also. You need to be able to except all replies to your thread. You've been here long enough to know the answer to your own question. Is it something that you really need to ask or do you genuinly not know the answer???


no disrespect take duc.hey we're all entitled to our opinions and feel strongly about them.


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## Longlost (Jan 26, 2015)

If I were a pro, an elite archer at the top of my game, I would be very selective (£$£$£) about who I shared my world beating tips and tricks with. If you discovered or had invented something big in any other field of endeavour you wouldn't be handing it over to your potential competitors for nothing would you?

Apart from that, If I were a manufacturer paying pros to promote my products, I wouldn't want them on AT getting discredited by nobodies - I'd put it in their contract - NO AT!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

duc said:


> Sonny, and also no disrespect to you also. You need to be able to except all replies to your thread. You've been here long enough to know the answer to your own question. Is it something that you really need to ask or do you genuinly not know the answer???


I don't have to accept something that it wrong and thinking Pros owe us something is wrong. And your reply; " So I think it's the height of conceit to think they "owe" you something." 

My question was the title, not really a question. Right off I gave of the major issue of why Pros don't come here, the "know-it-alls" of AT tearing into them. So I was absent for brief period, saw the same ole stuff when I returned and noting the Pro section of this forum is still a blank. So I gave more than the accepted "argument" side of why Pros don't come here.


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## elkbow69 (May 7, 2010)

I think its more of a frustration thing...

think about it, how many times have we seen someone Pro Archer something on here, then some AT "keyboard pro", poo-poo's it, then posts a long debate, then gets all butt hurt because the PRO does not fall into their mouse trap of the debate. 


Seems like facebook is the perfectly designed outlet setting for what they are wanting or willing to share. That is what its for. They can control who responds, what is said in there and seen, and who can post. Look at REO Wilde, he posts up lots of youtube vids on his channel, answers questions, and offers up some great insight. He just chooses to not be on here. I can respect that. He's just the dude, being the dude, that most of other dudes wish we could be. He has actually mentioned "AT" a time or two that I can recall. 

If I were an Archery Pro shooter , I would certainly not be very active much on here or I'd be a "no name from wherever" just to see whats going on. Kind of a covert ops lurker if you will. 
My time would be more spent traveling and shooting, posting FB stuff and training.


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## straight2it (Nov 30, 2010)

Archerytalk has been a valuable tool for me. Im honestly not super concerned with what the pros do with this site. If i want to get info, i just ask some of the more knowledgeable and experienced archers on here who volunteer their time to answer some questions. Reo, Scott, and a few others are actually good about getting back to me if i have a question i just can't figure out. Reo has his own website. The pros may not want to take the time to come on to archerytalk. Im not offended by this. Some want to help and others don't. There are foundational aspects of archery everyone must learn but after that, a lot is about preferences . Pros have different ways of doing stuff so even their answers are subjective . What would motivate pros to come on Archerytalk ? Money, campaigning, sponsors asking them to promote a certain new or existing product.. Thats pretty much all i can think of. Helping fellow archers is noble and there are good resources out there they use as a platform to share their experience, but the AT becomes a little nuts at time with everyone trying to prove a point rather than learning. Either you hit the X or you dont. 

Archerytalk could do something like having "What would a pro say" where they ask questions to the pros and get an answer, and then post it for the public. This would be someone from archerytalk admin basically orchestrating. An example would be asking Levi Morgan or Chance (whomever) How do you handle the mental pressure on the Line? Or How do you change your equipment beyond factory specs to perform better? Etc....

Either way someone is always going to have an opposing opinion but everyone is different and the only thing that matters is whether the info read helps each individual hit the X more consistently or not.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Just wondering if when you buy say some golf clubs there is some social media site where the pro's come on and help you with your swing only to be told by someone else on there that is not the way to do it correctly? There are lots of guys on here that have shot competitively for years and tons of knowledge willing to help others and dole out information that might have taken them years to learn. Some of the stuff on here is not worth what you paid for it, yet some very valuable information is free for the reader willing to put in some work and see if it works for them. Just my .02


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Pro's don't owe At'er a thing! They got to where they are at by hard work & a lot of practice, & travel & usually being away from there family's for long periods of time attending shoots. When they do come on & give some information they end up getting butt rash from some rookie that in his mind thinks he is a Pro. So why should they waste there work time on AT??


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Turned around, what do we owe the pros?


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

carlosii said:


> Turned around, what do we owe the pros?


To the individual, nothing. But if we want the sport to grow we need to do things like watch World Cup archery, Lancaster, and other tournaments that air their shoots. Also support products, etc.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> Turned around, what do we owe the pros?


Well, respect for one. Tim G and Dave C a few thanks. Danny Evans I can't thank enough....3 or 4 or 5 stories here.


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxp_xzDqnCc
Read the comments in the link and you'll know why pro's don't post. Negative comments.


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## Rochefort (Jun 16, 2015)

Visiting an archery forum is probably way low on a professional's list of things to do for fun. By the time their training schedule wraps up, I'd guess they want to get as far from bows and arrows as possible. I learned a long time ago, if you want to lose all your passion for something, just start getting paid for it. Neat free gear, though.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

And to be honest, some pros do come here from time to time.
Maybe not too many of the biggest names, but as mentioned, those guys have a life of archery and sponsorship obligations. 
Some teach, why buy the cow when you get the milk free.
I appreciate when they come here, but understand why they don't.


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## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

Why are most of us here ? To learn something, I am guessing there is not much for them to learn here. Do they owe us anything ? No but from a sponsors view I might like them to show up once in a while, even if it is only in the brand specific section. But I certainly understand avoiding the AT faithful, it seems some of them go from b--ls the size of marbles to basketballs when they are behind a keyboard. I know the main reason I am back regularly is this section of the forum.


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## Brad Rega (Oct 31, 2002)

There is really no one right way to shoot archery. Go down the line at a competition and show me two archers who have the exact same form and equipment setup. It's just not going to happen. There are no "secrets" pros hide from others. Our minds and bodies work in different ways and the pros have put hours and hours into trial and error playing with equipment and tuning to see what works for them. Many of the pros now were pros when this site was first introduced and yes I am sure most of the content on here gets old quick. Most believe it's best not to offer an opinion unless asked directly and I don't know of any pro who would not answer any questions. Many even go above and beyond what you ask. There really is very little a pro would tell you that you can't find somewhere on this forum. If you really need some help from pros it's best to go to a seminar or contact them about private lessons. 

I remember one time at Vegas talking to Dee Wilde and next thing I knew he had me go over to the practice range and spent some time with me. Growing up in New England I was able to get advice from Dave cousins often. At 18 years old I was looking to go to the world team trials in Chula Vista. Being 18 it's hard to get a hotel and car on your own so I had a posting here in archerytalk seeing if I could tag along with someone. Who replied back but Dave Cousins. GRIV took me into his home and helped me get my first job. 

These guys are truly amazing and generous people with big hearts. Many people just don't see the great things they are always doing.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

well as sonny has said some pro`s have wrote a few things on archery talk and to me it was helpful and positive. i have also got a couple of P.M.`s from pros that were helpful and kinda neat to get.two P.M.`s were from pro`s that were past vegas winners so to me that was really special. most Pro`s still work for a living too,have families ,practice alot,have shedules to make so they can be busy too. for example Terry Ragdales one heck of a pro archer now retired from archery works full time at a job and that job its not involved in archery ,so life just aint that easy either. i have a dear friend who wins alot locally and probably if he had the time and money and did not have to work so hard would do will any place as a pro and yep he`s an eletrician too as bernie pellerite talks about in his book.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I take what I can get and the very few times that I have gotten pro advice here on AT or at a national shoot or from my local pro those few times have made a drastic change in my understanding.

I have worked with and known guys who routinely shoot with some of the best pro shooters in the world and for them it didn't help at all because they still have issues that being friends or league mates with a top pro couldn't make a difference. For me it has and I appreciate it each and every time.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

Are there any PRO traditional archers? Recurve bows and no sights. I know some BB recurve shooters, but not to many traditional ones. Just curious.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

equilibrium said:


> Are there any PRO traditional archers? Recurve bows and no sights. I know some BB recurve shooters, but not to many traditional ones. Just curious.


Not any Pros in the U.S. that I can think of, but maybe overseas. Vic Wunderle and others would rank way up there, but maintain amateur status due to Olympic shooting. Still, we have some outstanding exhibitionists like Byron Ferguson. Another use to grace the pages of the NFAA magazine, ARCHERY.... And another exhibitionist, listed as a Pro, but with a compound bow is Randy Oitker.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Many Pros read AT, but don't bother to respond - they keep up with what is said about them, about the sport, sponsors etc - 

Ive had more than one tell me they would come on here, and it always ended up in an argument/debate and just made everyone look petty. They don't want their name assigned to that kind of stuff (as Hemstock mentioned)

So on that - I don't think its a secret any more that for a while I was involved with a bow company and assisted with selecting Pro Staff'ers. You can bet your bottom dollar that we looked them up on AT, Facebook, and Googled them. It had NOTHING to do with ASA/IBO/NFAA standings. Everything to do with the way they carried themselves. Not that we cant all partake in a little jabbing or having fun - but it their was a recurring theme they would get passed over. Facebook really filtered a lot of them out - and I mean A LOT! Its not as private as people think -


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

I compete pretty good at my current amateur level, but I once played professional baseball and that being said I don't think anyone has any idea what goes in to training as far as time away from family,time training, money invested with no guarantee of success. One pro is just that, one man/woman but can be viewed and judged by thousands/hundreds of thousands I so again NOONE who hasn't worn those shoes knows how it feels. However on the flip side before I became a professional baseball player (high school & college), there were pros who helped, encouraged and gave me advice so it goes both ways & I never forgot that when it came to autographs or camps. 

That being said I see pretty good involvement from guys/gals on facebook (probably because it's more personal than AT) and can't say I blame them for not being so visible on AT. There is however a wealth of knowledge shared on facebook by guys we may not consider "Pros". I have learned more from guys like nuts and bolts, cbrunson & padgett than any pros standing on the podium at ASA, IBO or NFAA. Just sayin!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Tim Gillingham has created a new Facebook Page. "Tim Gillingham Hammer Archery. Pictures, videos and one on one questions. I gave a quick check over. Upper left hand box has a square to check for a question. On Dial UP, Facebook and my computer don't "play well together." Same with videos..


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

It appears that when anyone with great archery knowledge starts posting on AT, that others get jealous and will eventually will attack the knowledgeable person in mob fashion until the knowledgeable person just quits posting. Can you think of any situations where this has occurred?


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## bowfisher (Jan 21, 2003)

jim p said:


> It appears that when anyone with great archery knowledge starts posting on AT, that others get jealous and will eventually will attack the knowledgeable person in mob fashion until the knowledgeable person just quits posting. Can you think of any situations where this has occurred?


???????


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

jim p said:


> It appears that when anyone with great archery knowledge starts posting on AT, that others get jealous and will eventually will attack the knowledgeable person in mob fashion until the knowledgeable person just quits posting. Can you think of any situations where this has occurred?


Yes.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

yes there is always some key board bullies who just love to criticize people,but there are also some guys who think they are pro`s and my kid could show them a thing or two, so it can go both ways. but like i have posted before i have had some very positive answers from some great pro`s too and i thank them much ! i feel very lucky when i have talked to some of the better pro`s they were very helpful even when they are busy . you guys would be jealous with the people i have been with in archery,all were just normal people and very gracious. Pete53


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## dillio67 (Oct 1, 2004)

Pros dont come on here because a lot of people on here know everything,start drama,and argue.
The pros dont owe anyone but their sponsors and as mentioned above there are better outlets.
Some may occasionally browse,but AT is a thing of the past for them.
The biggest problem for a user of AT, especially a novice, is knowing what tips and suggestions come with any validity.


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