# Help with form and draw length



## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

I have had an issue for quite some time where I can not seem to shoot a heavier bow. I seem to be fine if I shoot targets lower to the ground, but the Vegas targets and longer shots are challenging to hold. I have no issues with my Assassin(very light), but have issues with my Strouther and the Insanity. This leads me to believe its my form. I know I have gotten weaker in my old age, but not that weak lol. I have shot a 26" draw for quite some time and had a dealer suggest I shoot 27". It doesn't matter which draw I am shooting, it's still hard to hold the heavier bows on target. The Assassin in the picture is set at 27" and has a torqueless grip, so my effective draw is probably around 26 3/4". The Strouther is dead on 27". When I do shoot 26", I have to bend my elbow quite a bit. Do these draw lengths look correct and can you see anything that would cause the issue I experience with heavier bows?


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## TargetOz (Jan 16, 2013)

Definitely dl, possibly 1-1.5" too long, posture- head leaning in to the string and spine curving away from target...but please look up nuts & bolts, he is an absolute legend with setup and postures etc.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Things that show you're trying to fit into a long DL that I see are, the lean back, and the high wrist angle on your bow arm. Your bow grip isn't designed with a high wrist design so unless you've built it up that way, you should probably let your wrist extend so that the base of your thumb rests on the base of the grip. You also should tighten your wrist strap so it doesn't become a "hand strap". Can't see much beyond that because the pics don't really show your lower body.


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

Thank you for the feedback. I'll drop them down to 26" and repost.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Before you shorten your DL, see if you cannot lower your bow shoulder and your draw shoulder. Once you reach full draw and before you go to anchor, make a concious effort to lower both shoulders--this is probably a huge culprit in your bow not holding on target. 

Once you can draw and keep both shoulders down, then evaluate your DL to see if it is too long or right on. I believe you will be a lot closer to the 27" you're currently set on.

Watch George Ryal's videos on this very subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJbu3GtfUro


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

High shoulders generally mean high poundage, how many pounds are these bows?


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

This is what I thought of as well when looking at the pictures. You're scrunching your shoulders up. They need to be flat and down. Almost like standing at attention, shoulders down and back, chest out. This was an example that a member on here gave and I really like the picture it paints in your head.


montigre said:


> Before you shorten your DL, see if you cannot lower your bow shoulder and your draw shoulder. Once you reach full draw and before you go to anchor, make a concious effort to lower both shoulders--this is probably a huge culprit in your bow not holding on target.
> 
> Once you can draw and keep both shoulders down, then evaluate your DL to see if it is too long or right on. I believe you will be a lot closer to the 27" you're currently set on.
> 
> Watch George Ryal's videos on this very subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJbu3GtfUro


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

I tried lowering my shoulder. The Strouther was left at 27" and the Bowtech at 26 1/2".


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## TargetOz (Jan 16, 2013)

Dl still too long. Head is leaning in and forward. Dl is giving you struggles to hold form. If you can't adjust the cams then get a 1/2" square balsa wood rod tape it to your riser and recheck dl. Then keep adding rods and take pics at 1/2" settings starting from 27 down to say 25.5. With each pic make sure the arrow is horizontal to the ground feet close together and square to the target. Start with this and if you need detailed input remember nuts & bolts is more than willing to help.


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

I decided to take today off from work to play with the bows and have a long weekend. I think I may have found an issue. Peep height. I was trying to move my head to the bow. When I moved the peep up and moved the bow to my form, I was able to hold on the target steady with the heavier bow. Ill know more tonight when the kids get home to help me with the pics.


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

Ok, lowered my shoulder and raised my peep. 26.5 is almost un-shootable with my arm bent so much. The bowtech is at 26.5" and the Strouther is at 27"


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I don't know what I am talking about but try this. Straighten the bow arm and let the anchor move to where it needs to be. Then post some pictures.


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

If I straighten my bow arm the string ends up a few inches away from my nose and corner of my mouth. If I lower the peep and move my head to see through it, I can straighten my arm. Just for giggles I set my Diamond at 28" and it felt rather comfortable.


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

sk,

"If I straighten my bow arm the string ends up a few inches away from my nose and corner of my mouth." 

I think therein lies your problem.You are seemingly adjusting your body to fit the bow, rather than making the bow fit you! Your head needs to be straight up on top of the spine, THEN the peep needs to be set so you look through it WITHOUT MOVING your head in ANY way!! The string MAY or MAY NOT touch your nose and with a short ATA bow it probably will not. It is far more important to have a straight bow arm (90* to your spine), your head straight up on top of the spine, eye behind the peep (looking through it), shoulders down and back (relaxed, not shrugged up) and release forearm behind (inline with) the arrow.

IF you achieve this, the string may or may not touch the string BUT what ever you do, DO NOT move your body or head to accommodate anything. If you feel the need of a string reference, consider a kisser button.

Once you have your posture set THEN and only then set peep sight, kisser button, etc.

See if that helps.

Arne

PS. You are at too long of a draw in the last picture, see how your release forearm angles UP to the release hand? It should point down. (Elbow down to hand/arrow nock)


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

I am very confused. I munderstand everyone says the 26.5" is way too long. This is the Assassin at 26.5", arm extended,ay best attempt to keep my shoulders down and my body straight. It's very difficult not to shorten my body at this draw. When I do this, I have no anchor points. I can't pull the string back any further, but I didn't want to bend my arm or move my head. I can't imagine 25.5" would help, maybe 27.5?.


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

sk,

That is actually better than any of the pictures so far. Here are the problems still causing problems IMO. Your bow arm is dropped below 90* to your spine -- keep your bow hand at shoulder height. This is important!!!!!!!!!

Don't lock your bow arm elbow, just straight but not locked. 

Next, lift the release hand a LITTLE. You are a little too low right now.

Now, see how high your eye is above the peep as currently set? Raising the peep will now help. Turn your head more to the left.

You need to learn new anchor references, but at this point I can see that you want at least an additional inch (most likely 2")in draw length.

This must be done in small steps and one at a time.

Arne


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

Here is 27.5". My arm is bent, but it's hard to tell.


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Bow hand still low compared to the bow shoulder, arrow pointed down. Relax bow hand fingers, don't stick then straight out like that. Just relax the fingers and let them curl.

Lifting the bow hand will allow your release hand to move forward on your face a little. Base knuckle of the index finger on or just under the ear lobe -- forward about 1/2 inch.

In this set of pictures, you are letting the bow shoulder ride up again. Keep it down and back!

Head and body posture much better!!

The IMPORTANT part at this point is getting that bow arm to be ninety degrees to your spine. This is SOOOOO important because EVERYTHING else relates to just that!!


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I am not a coach. I would shorten the release if you can. Either tighten the wrist strap or shorten the hook up between the wrist strap and the head of the release.


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

I can tighten the release a little. I did try 28" again but I caught myself leaning back so I will order some 27.5" mods for the Strouther. Unfortunately if I am 27.5" for sure I will have to sell my Assassin SD. I love that bow.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

It is possible to shoot a bow with too short of a draw length. All you have to do is put on a long d-loop. This will not change the draw length of the bow but it will allow you to anchor like you want.


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## Bry2211 (Sep 26, 2014)

That last pic looks alot better. Your bow arm is not quite locked and your forearm is rotated up and down. Looks awesome man. That fact that you are looking for assistants shows that your goin to be driving tacks in no time.


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## sk1207 (Aug 8, 2002)

Thank you everyone for your help. I was always told I was a 26" but it always felt short to me. I think my form just adjusted to it naturally.


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