# Does your club allow crossbows at the 3d shoots



## Denfore (Mar 20, 2005)

*No....*

Well, come to think of it, I guess I am not sure....We have never been approached on the subject that I am aware of. Something new to bring up at the next meeting....For the record, as it stands now I would be against it, but I must say that I am completely ignorant when it comes to crossbows. Wouldn't they tend to beat the targets up, more than just a compound? I may have to do some research.....


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## tattooed bear (Feb 1, 2006)

*crossbows*

Ido not think crossbows belong at archery shoots because they are not legal 
in archery season and should not be at archery shoots


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

Round 2 !


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## slinger09 (Oct 11, 2004)

tatooed Bear, You ever heard the name JimC, because you soon will.


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## N2RCHRY (Feb 12, 2005)

tatooed bear said:


> Ido not think crossbows belong at archery shoots because they are not legal
> in archery season and should not be at archery shoots


Not quite true...depending on the state, they(crossbows) are legal during archery season if your disabled. 
From what I'm being told, Florida is considering a crossbow ONLY season. Two weeks from what I hear. I just wanna know what season is gonna loose two weeks. :mg: 
But to get back on topic, I'm not sure about our club. Or any others around central Fl for that matter. I've never seen ANYONE at a shoot(3D) with one.
I do know FAA/NFAA is allowing them in competition, which I assume means 3D also. We had a girl shooting one at last years St. Target Championship.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Even In Ohio where xbows have been treated as archery season tackle for a quarter of a century, many clubs didn't allow them

Interestingly, many of those club leaders were the ones who whined about xbow archers being "unsafe" or unlearned. However, when the IBO accepted crossbows, that changed and many IBO affiliated 3D clubs now allow crossbows and I believe all the WQ tournaments in Ohio have an xbow division-or at least most do.

if you use IBO rules for both safety and bow limitations, there is no problems. Crossbows held to IBO standards (190 pound limit-.>300 FPS limit) do not tear up targets any more than IBO legal compounds.

most of the opposition to crossbows being used on foam animals is either due to ignorance as to target damage or an attitude that allowing crossbows of rubber deer will lead to the waning of prejudice against xbows in hunting season.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Jim C said:


> if you use IBO rules for both safety and bow limitations, there is no problems. Crossbows held to IBO standards (190 pound limit-.>300 FPS limit) do not tear up targets any more than IBO legal compounds.


I have to agree with Jim's statement. The problem being that the typical 3D club shoot is a very loosely managed affair. Many clubs just don't know or understand the rules and just throw x-bows into the mix at 3d shoots. This is what has happened in MA. and this can be a real problem if the rules are not clearly defined and placed in the hands of every shooter. 

Also, I think it is unreasonable to assume that clubs have the resources to police these shoots. This responsibility generally falls on the shooters, so it is important that all involved know and understand the safety rules for all venues.


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

tatooed bear said:


> Ido not think crossbows belong at archery shoots because they are not legal
> in archery season and should not be at archery shoots


I don't really care one way or the other, but why do you base this on what is allowed in hunting season? You also can't use field points in hunting season. But you use them in 3D and club shoots.

As long as they are in their own class, and you're not having to compete with them, why do you even care.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Maybe some of us have are opionions as well*



Jim C said:


> Even In Ohio where xbows have been treated as archery season tackle for a quarter of a century, many clubs didn't allow them
> 
> Interestingly, many of those club leaders were the ones who whined about xbow archers being "unsafe" or unlearned. However, when the IBO accepted crossbows, that changed and many IBO affiliated 3D clubs now allow crossbows and I believe all the WQ tournaments in Ohio have an xbow division-or at least most do.
> 
> ...


Everyone is entitled to there views. Just dont force are opionions and call us prejudice. Everthing that shoots a arrow is not archery.
DB


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

kidnutso said:


> I don't really care one way or the other, but why do you base this on what is allowed in hunting season? You also can't use field points in hunting season. But you use them in 3D and club shoots.
> 
> As long as they are in their own class, and you're not having to compete with them, why do you even care.


His point was that if something isn't classified as archery equipment it shouldn't be allowed to compete in archery events. X-bows are classified as firearms in some states and the same rules apply. One could argue that there is at least some wisdom in this line of thinking.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Daniel Boone said:


> Everyone is entitled to there views. Just dont force are opionions and call us prejudice. Everthing that shoots a arrow is not archery.
> DB


My view is calling a crossbow not archery is silly and contrary to fact. I think the problem many anti xbow people make is rather than saying crossbows are archery equipment that should not be allowed in archery hunting season (just like field tips or low powered target recurves are certainly archery equipment that are not suitable or proper in bowhunting season) they make the illogical claim that crossbows are not part of archery

remember-archery is a much wider field than bowhunting

FITA target shooting is clearly archery but clearly not bowhunting

my view forces nothing upon anyone since no one has ever advocated that if xbows are legal for either 3D or hunting, you have to use or compete against one. on the other hand, excluders force their views on us

Assuming safety is required how is someone using a crossbow in a crossbow 3D class impacting on say you using your mathews in the MBO or MBR or Semi Pro class?


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

EPLC said:


> His point was that if something isn't classified as archery equipment it shouldn't be allowed to compete in archery events. X-bows are classified as firearms in some states and the same rules apply. One could argue that there is at least some wisdom in this line of thinking.


That brings up the argument "is a crossbow archery equipment." I happen to believe it does meet the definition of archery equipment, and one that uses one meets the definition of an archer. 

Personally, I don't use a crossbow, but I really don't have any problems in someone using them if that's what they prefer. For target shooting or hunting.

Now let's consider this. You say his point was that something not classed as archery equipment should not be allowed at archery events. Well, whether they are considered firearms in some states (and they definitely are not considered that by the ATF) or not, they are still a short range hunting or target device compared to a rifle. Now, there are no gun clubs that have competitions with targets setup to where you could compete with a crossbow. And the crossbow movement is not enough to where you're seeing an influx of crossbow clubs. Now, an archery shoot is different. 3D targets, set at yardages meant to simulate hunting conditions. Ideal for a crossbow shooter as well. So why not have a crossbow class that allows the crossbow shooter to have a place where they can compete as well. Like I said before, they're not competing against others using "ARCHERY EQUIPMENT". Besides a good compound shooter can shoot as accurately as a crossbow shooter. Just takes a little more skill and practice.

I say give 'em a break. Let them have a place to shoot.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

kidnutso said:


> That brings up the argument "is a crossbow archery equipment." I happen to believe it does meet the definition of archery equipment, and one that uses one meets the definition of an archer.
> 
> Personally, I don't use a crossbow, but I really don't have any problems in someone using them if that's what they prefer. For target shooting or hunting.
> 
> ...


So... If I understand your position: If it isn't classified as archery equipment, but can't compete with a rifle, we should allow it in archery events just because we have nice targets to shoot and they don't??? 

Just because a venue doesn't have the support or numbers to have their own clubs, events, etc. doesn't mean archery clubs have the responsibility to support it. Paintball seems to be doing just fine on it's own and we haven't picked that up either. 

Not to mention the additional safety rules that need to be understood and in place.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

as I mentioned before, you really can apply "traditional" safety rules and be fine with xbows

1) you don't draw (cock) the bow until you are on the stake and you don't load an arrow onto the bow until you are on the stake and its clear to shoot

2) you don't aim in any direction other than at the target-and only when the target is cleared by other shooters

3) just as its improper to "sky draw" a compound bow-so is loading a crossbow in such a way that an AD would launch the arrow above the target level is also banned.

The only issue I can think of that is different is what happens if an archer is incapable of shooting-obviously letting down a compound bow is different from a cocked xbow but that is a very rare situation.


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## kidnutso (Aug 29, 2004)

EPLC said:


> So... If I understand your position: If it isn't classified as archery equipment, but can't compete with a rifle, we should allow it in archery events just because we have nice targets to shoot and they don't???
> 
> Not to mention the additional safety rules that need to be understood and in place.


No sir, you don't understand my position. I think it should be classed as archery equipment. As far as I'm concerned, it meets all the definitions of archery, archery equipment and archers.

But that is IMO.

I'd like for you to expand your comments about the additional safety rules. I'm curious. What would those be?


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Beyond your opinion, x-bows are not classified as archery equipment everywhere. Many have concluded that they should be classified as firearms and treated as such.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Beyond your opinion, x-bows are not classified as archery equipment everywhere. Many have concluded that they should be classified as firearms and treated as such.


those who claim that would be laughed at by both archery experts and certainly firearms experts. That is what is great about America-everyone can have an opinion no matter how inane or contrary to common sense and facts

The organizations that count clearly don't think its a firearm and making xbows hunt during firearm season is far different than calling it a gun. 

1) The ATF doesn't classify it as a firearm

2) the federal government's laws concerning firearms (18 USC 922 etc) don't pertain to crossbows

3) even states that don't allow non-handicapped individuals to hunt with them in archery season often allow the disabled to do so-interestingly enough, those states don't allow the disabled to use firearms in archery season

4) The NATIONAL ARCHERY ASSOCIATION has a crossbow division-the NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION, the NATIONAL SKEET SHOOTING ASSOCIATION, the AMATEUR TRAPSHOOTING ASSOCIATION, THE NATIONAL MUZZLELOADING RIFLE ASSOCIATION AND THE UNITED STATES PRACTICAL SHOOTING ASSOCIATION do not have a crosbow division

5) sporting good stores invariably sell crossbows in their archery departments, not the firearm departments

In other words, only someone who is playing word games in order to advance an agenda concerning bowhunting would ever make a comment so unlearned as to claim a crossbow is a firearm

but hey, if someone wants to be branded a fool for saying that, its a free country:wink:


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## gollie15 (Feb 25, 2003)

*Yes*

Yes, we do allow crossbows on our range & at our shoots. If their is enough xbow shooters, I put them in their own class, if not, they go in with the open shooters if they use a scope or with the bowhunter class if they use a pin or pins. I have yet to have any problems with them dominating a shoot or with the bow users if a someone shooting a xbow happens to place.


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

Yes, we allow them. The NAA, NFAA, and IBO all recognize them; why shouldn't we. We have special rules for cross-bows (basically the rules Jim C referred to above.)

www.detroitarchers.com


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## Northforker (Oct 11, 2004)

Shot with a crossbow shooter last week at an open 3D shoot. I shoot hunter class pins. The x-bow shooter shot from the same stake we did(35 yd max). Let's put it like this, as long as those guys have to stand there and shoot offhand, I WANT them in my class ALL day. We ALL smoked him! As far as target damage, excessive penetration, etc. DID NOT see that at all, as a matter of fact, those bolts were easier to pull than our arrows and the penetration was not as deep. Most comments regarding crossbows must come from people that have never been around them, granted this was the first time I was around one and experience was demystifying for sure. No big deal, standing OFFHAND, actually a disadvantage!


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Sure we allow them at our club. Why would we not? 

Also, they do not more damage to targets than any good 3-d rig.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Jim C said:


> those who claim that would be laughed at by both archery experts and certainly firearms experts. That is what is great about America-everyone can have an opinion no matter how inane or contrary to common sense and facts
> 
> The organizations that count clearly don't think its a firearm and making xbows hunt during firearm season is far different than calling it a gun.
> 
> ...


So, how many states allow them during archery season and how many allow them during gun seasons? And how many don't allow them at all? I don't know the answers but would be interested to know.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

EPLC said:


> So, how many states allow them during archery season and how many allow them during gun seasons? And how many don't allow them at all? I don't know the answers but would be interested to know.



Paul, most states allow my compound in gun season........what does that mean?


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## StevenB (Jun 2, 2002)

down here they fall under the prohibited weapons list, and require a special licence for the arbalist to own them (my state any way).

They have this clasification as they can be carried while loaded (and cocked), this would be one of the reasons they would be classified as a firearm


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Big Country said:


> Paul, most states allow my compound in gun season........what does that mean?


Not much. Although I know you know this, I'll bite anyway. X-bows are restricted to gun season in some states... that's the difference. It is obvious that archery season overlaps the gun season in your example, just as it does here in my state. You can't shoot a gun in archery season though. Classification has much to do with it... I think it boils down to how strong the x-bow lobby is/or is not in a particular state. In cases like this reality has little to do with law.


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## RecordKeeper (May 9, 2003)

EPLC said:


> Not much. Although I know you know this, I'll bite anyway. X-bows are restricted to gun season in some states... that's the difference. It is obvious that archery season overlaps the gun season in your example, just as it does here in my state. You can't shoot a gun in archery season though. Classification has much to do with it... I think it boils down to how strong the x-bow lobby is/or is not in a particular state. In cases like this reality has little to do with law.


In my state, Alabama, the legislature approved the use of crossbows during archery deer season in 2004. The archery organizations fought hard against it, but did not have nearly the dollars or influence to match up against the auto insurance lobby that pushed for passage of the bill.

That's right.....you read it correctly....it was the auto insurance industry that pushed for approval of crossbows during archery season. Think about it for a minute, and you'll understand why.

Tennessee and Georgia have both passed similar laws in recent years.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Recordkeeper said:


> In my state, Alabama, the legislature approved the use of crossbows during archery deer season in 2004. The archery organizations fought hard against it, but did not have nearly the dollars or influence to match up against the auto insurance lobby that pushed for passage of the bill.
> 
> That's right.....you read it correctly....it was the auto insurance industry that pushed for approval of crossbows during archery season. Think about it for a minute, and you'll understand why.
> 
> Tennessee and Georgia have both passed similar laws in recent years.



FORD RULES:wink:


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Jim C said:


> FORD RULES:wink:


Hit by a crossbow during truck season...


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Hit by a crossbow during truck season...



LOL that's why I drive a lexus

actually fords are pretty strong-do you remember the EXP ( or mercury LN7) I had one-winter 83 I was driving a girlfriend back to the Greater Cincinnati airport when freezing rain came down on a really cold highway. a roadway truck jackknifed into my lane-hit him in the Mansfield bar at at least 45 MPH. tires blew axles snapped, carb was cut in half-both of us walked out of it-only injury was where the seatbelt squashed her breast-bad bruise but nothing serious

not bad for a two seater


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Jim C said:


> LOL that's why I drive a lexus
> 
> actually fords are pretty strong-do you remember the EXP ( or mercury LN7) I had one-winter 83 I was driving a girlfriend back to the Greater Cincinnati airport when freezing rain came down on a really cold highway. a roadway truck jackknifed into my lane-hit him in the Mansfield bar at at least 45 MPH. tires blew axles snapped, carb was cut in half-both of us walked out of it-only injury was where the seatbelt squashed her breast-bad bruise but nothing serious
> 
> not bad for a two seater


Of course you realize you both are very lucky to be alive... Oh, and the picture is my truck as of this morning. Head-on sending me into a pole... the pole really hurt... the taurus didn't have a fighting chance. (I'm pleased to report that nobody was seriously injured.)


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## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

EPLC said:


> Of course you realize you both are very lucky to be alive... Oh, and the picture is my truck as of this morning. Head-on sending me into a pole... the pole really hurt... the taurus didn't have a fighting chance. (I'm pleased to report that nobody was seriously injured.)


Paul, I'm sorry to hear you had to endure that accident.......... but I have to ask......... did the pole knock some sense into you?  

.........Now which bow should I shoot tomorrow, my recurve, hunting rig, freestyle rig, or my crossbow.......


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Grey Eagle said:


> Paul, I'm sorry to hear you had to endure that accident.......... but I have to ask......... did the pole knock some sense into you?
> 
> .........Now which bow should I shoot tomorrow, my recurve, hunting rig, freestyle rig, or my crossbow.......


Not that I can tell...


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

Jim C said:


> as I mentioned before, you really can apply "traditional" safety rules and be fine with xbows
> 
> The only issue I can think of that is different is what happens if an archer is incapable of shooting-obviously letting down a compound bow is different from a cocked xbow but that is a very rare situation.


 Jim, just out of curiosity, how would you let down on an xbow?
I figure put the safe on then remove the bolt but how do you let the string down without a dryfire?


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## Vizsladog (Dec 3, 2005)

*No crossbows here.*

They can only be used here, if the hunter is disabled and obtains the proper pemit.


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## CrazyTrain (Feb 21, 2006)

Starting this year they are allowed for the entire archery season here in Kentucky. Let em shoot and have fun same as everyone else far as I'm concerned. Andy KY


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## Archercpl (Dec 14, 2003)

*Ohio Archers*

The Ohio Archers are looking at how to include Cross bows into the compitetion at this time. Our concern right now is the noise level indoors but the 3D is simply adding a class! 
I did try to get a cross bow league started at our shop but did not have one person sign up? 

Here in Ohio they have been included in the archery season for a very long time now and records show they harvest more deer then compound shooters!


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## Matt Musto (May 12, 2008)

here is one


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

The did in the beginning, but not anymore. My club uses excelsior bales and the bolts go through plus when they do hold, they are embedded to where it is destructed to the bales digging them out.

r302


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## r302 (Apr 5, 2004)

r302 said:


> The did in the beginning, but not anymore. My club uses excelsior bales and the bolts go through plus when they do hold, they are embedded to where it is destructed to the bales digging them out.
> 
> r302


And to answer the question, I have not see crossbows at any of out 3D shoots. I don't know why. I guess no one has ask to shoot a crossbow.

r302


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## carbonarchery (May 7, 2009)

the club i belong to does let xbows in for one they are aloud in comp and 2 this is the first year that they are legal for every body during hunting season. and im ok with it as long as i dont get an arrow stuck in me.


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