# V-bar, stabs, and "leaning" questions



## bell47 (May 20, 2011)

So,I've tried a couple of front stabilizers on my new bow. I've had the best luck with an older 30" Easton aluminum stab on the front. Here's the issue now: With the 30" stab. I tend to hold the sight steady on the target(way more so than without it), but it settles low. The sight seems to stabilize just below the white(6 o'clock) in the blue(5 spot target) at 20 yards, and the bubble level says I lean left(bubble is off to the right). I contantly have to "lift" the sight to the "x", and it makes it unstable. Would a v-bar with some weight rearward and to the right side balance this out? I've never used a v-bar and my local shop doesn't stock them so I have to order one without trying it. What would ya'll suggest for a v-bar? What about the stabs? Also, with the "leaning" issue... I don't grip the bow, I shoot "open handed" so I don't think I torquing it in any way, it just leans. Thanks in advance for the advice guys.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Someone else may have a better solution to the holding low problem, but I had that problem also. I got over it by addressing all three parts of the shot: equipment adjustments, form & mental.

First mental, Understand that if you can hold steady anywhere, you should be able to hold steady on the X. Sometimes when we loose focus on the X, we loose tension in the muscles holding the bow up. When the pin dips, we switch focus to the back end of the shot. You can probably see the problems that will cause. Learn to maintain focus on the target from beginning of aiming to the conclusion of your shot. This isn't easy, but it will pay off.

Equipment - Trial and error will get you to the optimum arrangement of stabilizers and weight. If you live near a shop that has a good selection of stabilizers, they may be able to help you. If not, it may be worth a trip to Lancaster Archery. They are fantastic when it comes to this.

Form - At full draw, think of your upper body as a single unit. Your bow arm is always at the same angle to your body, your head is always over the center mass of your body and your string arm is always in the same position aligned with the arrow. Each of us has an optimum arrangement of your upper body and lower body for steadiness. To change the elevation of your aim, bend only at the waist. For very small changes to your aim left or right, twist at the waist, for larger changes move your feet. When you get to the point wher your upper body unit is automatically locked in every time you draw, a low pin is easily corrected by shifting your hips slightly. One drill for this is to come to full draw, lock in your upper body unit and swing your aim up and down a couple of times before settling on the target. It sounds simple, but you have to have pretty good control over your shot to do this without strain or excess tension.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

Great advice from Allen. The only thing I would add is to make sure you keep a low shoulder with the bow arm and allow the force of the holding weight to push the shoulder in position from the bone to bone contact through the wrist and arm. Griv has an excellent article on stabilization at his web site that provides formulas to achieve proper balance through the use of stabilizers. I too have suffered from freezing below, hence my call sign SpotShy. Rule out such things as improper drawlength and peep height first. Then work at immediate target acquisition by looking at the X, never taking your eye off of it and drawing to anchor. At this point bring the peep and the sight to your eye not vice versa. When this is done the sight is on the X. I practice this a lot at 10 feet in my basement without firing arrows. If and when you fall low of the X, let down, rest and try again. Never let yourself fire a shot if the pin locks low. Soon your mind will compute that unless the pin is on the X an arrow will not be shot.


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## bell47 (May 20, 2011)

Hey guys thanks a lot! I'm gonna try that. The only think I thought was strange is that with the 30" stab. the bow feels lighter, and more stable, it just settles low. I think I've ruled out draw length and peep height already. When I'm at full draw the string just ever so slightly touches the tip of my nose, and standing with my feet, shoulder width apart, and head straight my peep lines up just right. It's very comfortable, and feels natural, but like I said just settles low. I would love to go to Lancaster and check things out but I live in Maine, so kinda to far. Spotshy, you mentioned "Griv" has a website, could you post a link to that? I'd like to check it out as well. Thanks again, headed to the range.


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## philhoney (Feb 25, 2010)

Hi,
Have a look at this :- http://www.performance-archery.tv/?q=node/78
It may help.
Phil


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

Bell47, 

Try this http://archerylearningcenter.archerylive.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=92


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## Old Man Archer (Mar 31, 2009)

When you say you are locking up below the spot , are you trying to bring your bow up after drawing it to get to the spot or are you drawing with your bow slightly above the target and the slowly bringing it down to the spot? You should be doing the second of these 2 options , reasons are simple , it is how your body works the physiology of your shoulder and arm is made to lock in place gently and effortlessly if the force is coming down. Gravity plays a large part in this it is easier to set something down because less force is required to do so but when picking it up your muscles have to tighten up which causes tension and results in your arm and shoulder locking up low. If you are doing the first try the second and see if it doesn't help.


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## bell47 (May 20, 2011)

OK, Here's what happened. I have been shooting high 290's with 30+ X's until now. The last couple of days I have concentrated on nothing but my form, stance, and breathing, ect.... with NO equipment adjustments. I have brought my score up to 300's with mid 40'x's consistantly, but it takes some effort. So, for that I want to thank ya'll. Now I just need to get that x-count up! By changing my stance ever so slightly, and making sure everything is consistant EVERY shot, the pin now settles just about the bottom of the X-ring, and pretty stable. Usually I can slowly inhale and the pin raises slightly as I draw air in, about the time it centers I slightly hold my breath and shoot. I'm not sure how unorthodox this is but it seems to be working.


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## lknchoppers (Jun 13, 2008)

That is really great shooting. It sounds like you are anticipating your shot for sure. What you want to strive for is to float your pin on the spot you want to hit, keep aiming, concentrating on the "X" and the shot goes off by suprise. If that doesn't happen, you will slowly ingrain anticipating your shot or timing your shot. This may work for a while but eventually for most people it leads to target panic and freezing adjacent to the "X".


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

bell47,
That's a good description of a timing, command shooter. On a good day when their timing is on, they can beat anybody. However, on a day when their timing is slightly off, their scores go in the toilet. 

Unfortunately for them, there are a lot of things that can throw off the timing. An extra cup of coffee, a little more tension or stress, minor change in equipment, etc. The oddest one I've heard about was the guy who wore different shoes. With one pair he was on, but with the other pair, not. Kind of makes sense in that your feet are the first part of a good shot foundation.

lknchoppers gives a good description of the type of form that holds up well under pressure. Achieving this form is a little more difficult. 

Finding how to set up your form so that you control it, will lead to good shots that hold up when the pressure is on. Don't be discouraged. It seems most good shooters go through the timing / command phase. There have even been a few that stayed with it and did well. But most who go on to big scores in big tournaments have a little more control over their shot and float the pin over the X while executing subconsciously.

Good luck,

Allen


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## bell47 (May 20, 2011)

The last post I made, makes it sound like the pin is passing over the x ,as I let it fly. This is not the case. When I inhale it slightly brings the pin up, so I hold my breath and basically the pin stops on the x. I take my time while holding the pin floating on the X. the shot is pretty much a suprise. I shot a 300 with 44X again today. Everything seams rock steady. I'm not just shooting as the pin passes by the x-ring. On the other hand, I'm very much willing to get more advice. Here's my shot sequence:
Feet about shoulder width apart, I raise up and draw the bow back, I look through the peep and let the bow settle/lower until it stops. I'm totally locked with the string back against the stops, left hand open on the grip. The pin is right about the bottom of the x ring. I take a very s-l-o-w breath and the pin slightly raises into the x-ring. I hold my breath, while floating the pin on the x. At this point I try to not even think about the release. Just hold the pin on the X and make some "pressure" with my trigger finger. I'm trying to make the shot a suprise. Arrow flys, the end. Anyway, I'm totally open to more critique! I'm changing to Carbon Express X-Jammers next week.Even today I had three arrows that I think would have been X's with a larger arrow. I'm shooting Easton Axis now. Thanks for all ya'll's advice, keep it coming, I'm still learning.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

If your freezing up low or just under the spot - take your concentration more off the pin and put it on the target. Focusing too much on the pin will cause apprehension in your shot process. Keep focused on the spot and your pin will soon center itself.

.02


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## bell47 (May 20, 2011)

So today I concentrated solely on the X, and not the pin. I really tried to focus on form, but I was really tired from work. Shot a 298 with 44X's. I do see how focusing on the X and not the pin will help,I was just plain worn out when I started. Thanks to everybody again for all the advice. I'll keep working on it.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

out of all the posts ive read I think you have all steered the poster in the wrong direction. His or her question was will a rear stabilizer help with the bow holding low? YES it could is the answer. 

You all told him or her to basically go back and practice more or practice better form. sure form can be one problem but I doubt it is a problem with a shooter shooting 300's like they are shooting. 

Now there can be several issues with holding low. One is not enough weight on the rear stabilizer. Another one is your D-loop might be set to low "move it up a touch". Another one is improper shot set up "Always come down on the target". Another one is the tiller might be slightly off "meaning your top or bottom limb might be pulling harder then the other "take a 1/4 turn off the top and apply a 1/4 turn on the bottom". Another is maybe your eye isn't comfortable shooting while covering up the dot so it naturally sets up the shot low "So maybe try a see through donut style pin". Another could be improper draw length! Improper peep height.

These are all things that can cause your pin to settle low. good luck


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