# Vertical draw board set up question



## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

It should be zeroed with nothing on the scale

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## merlinron (Mar 23, 2020)

if your bow hangs directly on the scale by the grip or by the string/loop, the scale should be zeroed with the bow hanging on it. otherwise you are including the physical weight of the bow in your draw weight measurment . if you don't zero it,... the scale would be starting out with 5 or 6 lbs. on it (the physical weight of the bow itself is on the scale before you start to draw the bow) and then recording the draw weight from there on, to peak weight, so the total would be the peak draw weight plus the weight of the bow itself. if the bow does not hang on the scale there is no compensation necessary for the bow's physical weight. alternately, if the bow is hanging on the scale and there is no way to zero the scale and you know the exact weight of the bow, it can be subtracted from the total reading. which ever the case, the physical weight of the bow itself, should not be part of the draw weight reading you get. it is always best to have a solid stationary post on your draw board, for the bow's grip to sit against and pull on the string with the scale. that way there is no question about the weight you read.


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## Bluetick. (Sep 15, 2013)

Zero the scale first. Do not hang bow on scale and then zero scale. 
Case in point. If my bow weighs 4 lbs total and yours weighs 7lbs total but you hang each one and then zero scale you’ll have two different readings. Hope that makes sense.


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## merlinron (Mar 23, 2020)

to me that makes no sense at all. if your bow weighs 5 lbs and you hang it on the scale and the scale reads 5lbs before you start to draw the bow, the measured draw weight will contain that 5 lb. physical weight of the bow itself. ( 5lb. bow +50lb. measured draw weight)=55lbs. you are starting to draw a bow from "0" draw weight (bow at rest), with the scale already reading 5 lbs before you start drawing. think of it this way..... if you know you weigh 200 lbs and you put a 5 lb. weight on a scale, then step on the scale,... what will the scale read ?.....200 or 205 ?. to get the true reading of just the bow's draw weight, the scale has to read "0" with the bow hanging on the scale before you draw the bow.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

merlinron said:


> to me that makes no sense at all. if your bow weighs 5 lbs and you hang it on the scale and the scale reads 5lbs before you start to draw the bow, the measured draw weight will contain that 5 lb. physical weight of the bow itself. ( 5lb. bow +50lb. measured draw weight)=55lbs. you are starting to draw a bow from "0" draw weight (bow at rest), with the scale already reading 5 lbs before you start drawing. think of it this way..... if you know you weigh 200 lbs and you put a 5 lb. weight on a scale, then step on the scale,... what will the scale read ?.....200 or 205 ?. to get the true reading of just the bow's draw weight, the scale has to read "0" with the bow hanging on the scale before you draw the bow.


Sorry, but you've got this wrong. 50 lbs of draw weight is the same 50 pounds no matter which direction you are pulling the bow. If you were somehow correct, it would be easier to draw our bows on downhill shots.

edit: no sarcasm intended....just in the interest of good information.


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

merlinron said:


> to me that makes no sense at all. if your bow weighs 5 lbs and you hang it on the scale and the scale reads 5lbs before you start to draw the bow, the measured draw weight will contain that 5 lb. physical weight of the bow itself. ( 5lb. bow +50lb. measured draw weight)=55lbs. you are starting to draw a bow from "0" draw weight (bow at rest), with the scale already reading 5 lbs before you start drawing. think of it this way..... if you know you weigh 200 lbs and you put a 5 lb. weight on a scale, then step on the scale,... what will the scale read ?.....200 or 205 ?. to get the true reading of just the bow's draw weight, the scale has to read "0" with the bow hanging on the scale before you draw the bow.


Look at it this way... 
hold the bow against the post and draw it to 70#
now let go of the bow.
Will the draw weight go to 75# when ya let go? Or stay exactly the same at 70#?

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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

SIGH. A picture clears up EVERYTHING. Now, if your idea of a "vertical draw board" is a hook in the ceiling,
and you attach the scale to the hook on the ceiling, and then, you attach the bow to the scale hook. Yes, you have to subtract the weight of the bow, cuz you are pulling down on the bow, and the scale
sees the weight of the bow and the draw weight of the bow. A CEILING hook is not a vertical draw board. 



This is the WRONG way to build a vertical draw board. Need to climb up a ladder to attach the scale to the winch, and the winch stays locked in the close position. 
Then, climb down the ladder, back on the ground, and then pull down on the bow. If you do this, you can derail the bow, cuz you are handling the riser, and you have to subtract the weight of the bow.
This is no better than a ceiling hook, which is also not great.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

leoncrandall74 said:


> Look at it this way...
> hold the bow against the post and draw it to 70#
> now let go of the bow.
> Will the draw weight go to 75# when ya let go? Or stay exactly the same at 70#?
> ...


So, how do ya build a "vertical" draw board? Put a pipe up high, and mount the bow on the pipe. The pipe supports the weight of the bow. DUH.
Put the winch down low, and attach the scale to the winch, and attach the d-loop to the scale hook.



Now, the winch is usable, and you can crank on the boat winch, and the boat winch pulls on the scale. The scale pulls on the d-loop. This way, no need to tare out the weight of the bow, cuz the weight of the bow is ZERO,
cuz the pipe supports the weight of the bow. The scale feels ONLY the draw weight of the bow. No need to do anything to the scale. Vertical Draw Board.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

SIGH? This has got to be some kind of silly test. 

No matter the direction of pull, you don't subtract the weight of the bow.

edit: After a little more thought, the only way where you need to subtract the weight the bow would be if you hung the bow's grip on the scale and then pulled the string. (Practically no one does that.) As long as the scale is attached to the string/loop, it will measure draw weight.


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## tirving (Nov 3, 2013)

TNMAN said:


> SIGH? This has got to be some kind of silly test.
> 
> No matter the direction of pull, you don't subtract the weight of the bow.
> 
> edit: After a little more thought, the only way where you need to subtract the weight the bow would be if you hung the bow's grip on the scale and then pulled the string. (Practically no one does that.) As long as the scale is attached to the string/loop, it will measure draw weight.


Correct, if you anchor the scale and nocking point of the string, then pull down on riser, the weight of the riser assists the pull, you don't subtract that number any more than you would subtract a weight, hanging from the riser to assist you in pulling the riser down because you are too weak to pull the full DW. 

Now, I do agree, this isn't a great way to build a draw board. The Bow-a-constrictor and the 92safari press anchor the riser in the press and pull up on the string, using a block and tackle pulley system, this is the best way to build a vertical draw board. I haven't used the spike press vertical draw board, but I think it's similar, just automatic/mechanical


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## merlinron (Mar 23, 2020)

my very first words in my post that everybody is disagreeing with,...:IF YOUR BOW HANGS DIRECTLY ON THE SCALE BY THE GRIP OR BY THE STRING/LOOP,....THINK ABOUT IT.....if the bow hangs directly on the scale, the scale is reading the weight of the bow before it starts to measure the bow's draw weight,....the end result is the draw weight plus the weight of the bow combined. now,...even if the bow hangs on a post and the scale is attached to the string, the scale will still be weighing the weight that is the part of the drawing strap and hook, hanging below the scale between the bow and the winch. with a vertical braw board, the scale,... in either situation,.... has to be zeroed when it is attached to the bow, before the bow is drawn, or it will be reading either the weight of the bow, or the weight of the portion of draw strap and hook, that is hanging between the bow and the winch or bottom pully.....Think about it.


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## tirving (Nov 3, 2013)

merlinron said:


> my very first words in my post that everybody is disagreeing with,...:IF YOUR BOW HANGS DIRECTLY ON THE SCALE BY THE GRIP OR BY THE STRING/LOOP,....THINK ABOUT IT.....if the bow hangs directly on the scale, the scale is reading the weight of the bow before it starts to measure the bow's draw weight,....the end result is the draw weight plus the weight of the bow combined. now,...even if the bow hangs on a post and the scale is attached to the string, the scale will still be weighing the weight that is the part of the drawing strap and hook, hanging below the scale between the bow and the winch. with a vertical braw board, the scale,... in either situation,.... has to be zeroed when it is attached to the bow, before the bow is drawn, or it will be reading either the weight of the bow, or the weight of the portion of draw strap and hook, that is hanging between the bow and the winch or bottom pully.....Think about it.


The only way you have to tare the weight of the bow is if the scale is pulling on the riser itself. If the scale is attached to the string and you pull down on the riser, you do not have to tare the weight of the bow (riser). If I anchor the string to a scale and slowly hang weights to the riser 1lb at a time, and my DW is exactly 60#, the bow will draw when the total weight hanging reaches 60# and that's what the . If my riser weighs 3#, I will have to hang 57 more pounds for the bow to draw. The scale will still read 60#. The weight of the riser is just part of the total weight needed to draw the bow.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

merlinron said:


> my very first words in my post that everybody is disagreeing with,...:IF YOUR BOW HANGS DIRECTLY ON THE SCALE BY THE GRIP *OR BY THE STRING/LOOP*,....THINK ABOUT IT.....if the bow hangs directly on the scale, the scale is reading the weight of the bow before it starts to measure the bow's draw weight,....the end result is the draw weight plus the weight of the bow combined. now,...even if the bow hangs on a post and the scale is attached to the string, the scale will still be weighing the weight that is the part of the drawing strap and hook, hanging below the scale between the bow and the winch. with a vertical braw board, the scale,... in either situation,.... has to be zeroed when it is attached to the bow, before the bow is drawn, or it will be reading either the weight of the bow, or the weight of the portion of draw strap and hook, that is hanging between the bow and the winch or bottom pully.....Think about it.


At least you are in good company. N&B's got this wrong after two pages of pics. As long as the scale is attached to the string or loop, there is no need to subtract the weight of the bow.

We ain't weighting taters here. Think about that.


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## Rugby (Feb 13, 2003)

If you have to take into account the mass weight of the bow when measuring poundage on a vertical draw board (which you don't) then how would you get on shooting up and downhill?

This thread is too funny, shame its hidden away in this forum....


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## merlinron (Mar 23, 2020)

if the bow itself, is hanging on the scale, the scale is reading the physical weight of the bow before it is reading the bow's draw weight. if the bow weighs 4.5 pounds, when you pull the bow the scale will read the bow's draw weight plus 4.5 pounds. you either have to zero the scale before pulling on the bow, or subtract the weight of the bow from your draw weight reading. because the scale is starting out with the weight of the bow on it before you begin to pull. I don't really care what N&B has posted,....I know what I posted is right. if the bow is hung on a stationary post and the scale is hung on the string/loop ,....when you pull the scale you are now getting the actual draw weight reading because the scale is not weighing the bow. it doesn't surprise me one bit that people on this site can't distinguish the difference in those two conditions.


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## Rugby (Feb 13, 2003)

The scale is reading the amount of force required to draw the bow. The unit used in archery is pounds. 

The scale is not measuring weight, its measuring force. That force is expressed as pounds.
I use a vertical draw board most days where the bow is hanging off the scales. 

It makes no difference to the peak weight displayed by the scales if the scales are zeroed and the bow hung on the scales (displaying the weight of the bow) or if the scales are zeroed and put onto the string without weighing the bow (the bow being held in place at the bottom of the draw board rather than hanging off the scales).


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## tirving (Nov 3, 2013)

Rugby said:


> The scale is reading the amount of force required to draw the bow. The unit used in archery is pounds.
> 
> The scale is not measuring weight, its measuring force. That force is expressed as pounds.
> I use a vertical draw board most days where the bow is hanging off the scales.
> ...


This. 
It's simple physics, you're measuring the force it takes to draw the bow, it doesn't matter what's contributing to the total force, it all gets measured.
Now, if the bow is anchored down and you use a block and tackle pulley system and a scale anchored above the bow, you need to zero out the scale prior to hooking it up to the bow for you will be reading the draw weight plus the weight of whatever is hanging between the scale and bow.


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

merlinron said:


> if the bow itself, is hanging on the scale, the scale is reading the physical weight of the bow before it is reading the bow's draw weight. if the bow weighs 4.5 pounds, when you pull the bow the scale will read the bow's draw weight plus 4.5 pounds. you either have to zero the scale before pulling on the bow, or subtract the weight of the bow from your draw weight reading. because the scale is starting out with the weight of the bow on it before you begin to pull. I don't really care what N&B has posted,....I know what I posted is right. if the bow is hung on a stationary post and the scale is hung on the string/loop ,....when you pull the scale you are now getting the actual draw weight reading because the scale is not weighing the bow. it doesn't surprise me one bit that people on this site can't distinguish the difference in those two conditions.


I have to think this is only a momentary brain freeze on your part (Alan's too). How about measuring the draw weight of a couple of your bows on a hanging scale, and let us know what you think afterwards.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

TNMAN said:


> SIGH? This has got to be some kind of silly test.
> 
> No matter the direction of pull, you don't subtract the weight of the bow.
> 
> edit: After a little more thought, the only way where you need to subtract the weight the bow would be if you hung the bow's grip on the scale and then pulled the string. (Practically no one does that.) As long as the scale is attached to the string/loop, it will measure draw weight.


It was decided 40 years ago that TNMAN is correct and in 20 more years the same debate will come up again. I have been in archery 66 years and I have seen the same debates over and over. In the 80s everybody had Hanson scales hung to the ceiling so this question was more important then and it was decided that you zero the scale without the bow's weight.


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## leoncrandall74 (Apr 9, 2017)

Might take another 20 years for it to sink in for some..

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## SDguy (Jun 20, 2005)

The scale is measuring peak dw & perhaps draw curve. How you achieve the peak DW, with the winch or the weight of the bow is irrelevant. Zero without the weight of the bow before you start to draw the bow will provide you with your actual dw.


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## tirving (Nov 3, 2013)

This post let's us know there are a lot of people either:
Complaining their bows aren't hitting proper peak draw weight, when they are
Or
Twisting cables too much to compensate for the weight of the riser, that's they're taking out of the equation.


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