# Rules about repairing a target face?



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Anyone know the rules and/or etiquette for repairing a paper target face during an indoor round? I know NFAA rules prohibit the archer from defacing or otherwise altering the target in order to gain an aiming advantage, but recently I observed someone who seemed to be repairing holes selectively so as to minimize the visibility of holes outside the 10 ring, but the same effort was not made to fix holes inside the 10 ring, which effectively improved the aiming point by having a "hole" in the middle of the target.

Now I've repaired targets both on my own, as well as at the request of judges, so I know repairs are permitted, but I've always tried to restore the whole target as much as possible, not only patch the holes that are outside the 10/X rings. Is it common practice, shady behavior, or a rule violation to selectively repair the holes of poorly shot arrows? To clarify, the method of repair was using the head of a nail to pull the paper back out where a shot arrow had folded it inward.

I'm sure target shooters are aware of what I'm referring to, but for clarity, here's a sample target in various states of "repair"


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The larger competitions (both WA and NFAA) prohibit repairing/defacing target faces during a competition; however, you can still see it done at some local and state shoots. I saw a shooter once pen a little symbol in the corner of his target, I assume so it would be easier to spot and create less chance of shooting the wrong target--he was cautioned and asked to change target faces by the line judge. I prefer to play it safe and not mess with them.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

Just in case you shoot world cup:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Rick! said:


> Just in case you shoot world cup:


Zikes... Those faces were pretty clean. Was that perchance during the 2 practice ends? If so, I believe the rules are waived...If not, then I am really surprised.


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## NP Archery (Jul 29, 2008)

I asked a similar question a while back......

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2408567&p=1072206530#post1072206530


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Thanks for the replies. 
It's interesting that there seems not to be a universal rule on repairing, even within each organization.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't know how many sanctioned NFAA Indoors I've shot, but pushing holes back (folded material) was declared by Officials as okay, as nestly's pictures shows.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Per NFAA rules:

*An archer shall not deface his/her target in any manner to include punching a hole, enhancing the X or any other portion of the target in an effort to gain sight-ing/aiming advantage.*

per 2016 Vegas rules:

*7. An archer who purposely disfigures a target face to improve aiming or for any other reason, may be disqualified. Arrow holes may be repaired, provided there is no delay to the round.*

IMO, it probably violates the spirit of the NFAA rule to move the "hole" closer to the middle through selective repair than where a naturally formed "hole" would be if no repairs were made, but since the Vegas rule states the archer "may" repair holes, not "must" repair holes, I suppose it would be hard to make a case against selective repairs, at least in that tourney.

Just trying to clear it up in my own mind before I get to Vegas, as I don't want to disadvantage myself by shooting at a target with an off-center hole if some of my competitors are "moving" theirs.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Maybe.... Ways to look at pushing back holes, ridding you of distraction and stopping you from drawing to a wayward hole...


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Exactly... Shooting a hole in the middle creates an aiming point that helps with aiming, but that's not much of a factor for me because I use a large scope dot that covers most of the yellow anyway. But there is a lot of positive mental reinforcement when aiming at a target where I've already destroyed the X ring.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Glad to see it's in the 2016 Vegas rules about allowing shooters to repair holes as I've seen it done there in the past many times. The new written rule just clarifies that's it's ok.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

I just watched through a bunch of last years Vegas shoot and they did it quite a bit if they didn't want a big black hole on the edge of the 10.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Unsure about Vegas, but at the State sanctioned events I shot "you owned" the target. In other words, you could shoot it in any order you wanted including shooting all 3 arrows in one of the three bull's eye targets. I believe the single spot Vegas target can be used....


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

montigre said:


> Zikes... Those faces were pretty clean. Was that perchance during the 2 practice ends? If so, I believe the rules are waived...If not, then I am really surprised.


After the 4th end of the Nimes men's gold medal match... the guy in the green has a magic thumb that pulls the paper back in the holes, the guy fixing Schloesser's face, well, uses arrows as tools to hide the two 9's he just shot...


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> Unsure about Vegas, but at the State sanctioned events I shot "you owned" the target. In other words, you could shoot it in any order you wanted including shooting all 3 arrows in one of the three bull's eye targets. I believe the single spot Vegas target can be used....


That's a bit surprising. I've never been anywhere, including local club shoots that permit multiple arrows in the same scoring area of a multi-face target without a penalty. My experience is that the order the arrows are shot doesn't matter, (except in the LAS Classic this year where they are using vertical 3 spots that must be shot top to bottom)

From 2016 Vegas rules:

*4. One arrow is allowed per spot on a three-spot target face. If there is more than one arrow in a single spot, you will lose your highest scoring arrow or arrows in that spot.

5. If more than 3 arrows are shot during an end, only the lowest 3 arrows will be scored. A penalty of one point will be assessed for each additional arrow shot. Misses or zeros will be counted as lowest arrows.

6. If an archer shoots less than three arrows in one end, he/she may shoot the remaining arrows if the omission is discovered before the end is officially completed; otherwise they shall be scored as misses.*

In other words, if you accidentally shoot multiple arrows into one of the spots in Vegas, you better realize what you've done and shoot a 4th arrow into the vacant target because the penalty could be as low as only 1 point, vs taking a zero for a spot with no arrow in it.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

Rick! said:


> After the 4th end of the Nimes men's gold medal match... the guy in the green has a magic thumb that pulls the paper back in the holes, the guy fixing Schloesser's face, well, uses arrows as tools to hide the two 9's he just shot...


But the archers and there spotters don't even approach the targets so are these officials of some sort?


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

nochance said:


> But the archers and there spotters don't even approach the targets so are these officials of some sort?


"Advocate", I believe. Someone appointed by the archer to represent them at the target, often a friend or teammate.


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## wa-prez (Sep 9, 2006)

nestly said:


> That's a bit surprising. I've never been anywhere, including local club shoots that permit multiple arrows in the same scoring area of a multi-face target without a penalty. My experience is that the order the arrows are shot doesn't matter, (except in the LAS Classic this year where they are using vertical 3 spots that must be shot top to bottom)
> 
> From 2016 Vegas rules:
> 
> ...


Shooting a fourth arrow would NOT benefit you in this case because, the rules are applied in order. If there are two arrows in one of the spots of the three-spot target, the higher value arrow is scored as a Zero.

And if you shoot four arrows, the lower three arrows will be counted, and one of THOSE is that Zero from the multiple shots in one spot.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

wa-prez said:


> Shooting a fourth arrow would NOT benefit you in this case because, the rules are applied in order. If there are two arrows in one of the spots of the three-spot target, the higher value arrow is scored as a Zero.
> 
> And if you shoot four arrows, the lower three arrows will be counted, and one of THOSE is that Zero from the multiple shots in one spot.


I do not believe that is what the rule states....additionally I know a 45+ X shooter who this happened to last year at Vegas and not shooting the 4th arrow cost him 10 points where official told him he could have lost as few as 1 point if he had shot 4 tens into the 3 spot face.

Rule says only the lowest value arrow is scored....it does not say the other arrow(s) in the same face are scored as zero. If that were the case, there would be no need for the next rule that accesses a 1 point penalty for each additional arrow


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

The problem with the Vegas shoot is that they have flip flopped a couple times over the past several years in terms of how they handle the 4th arrow. At one time Vegas scored similarly to how FITA/WA scores it, which is as wa-prez noted, 2 in same spot requires highest value be pulled and scored as a 0, then only remaining 2 arrows are scored. If the 4th is shot in FITA I'm pretty certain the highest is pulled in the target with multiple arrows and scored as a 0 and then the highest of the remaining 3 arrows is pulled and only the lowest 2 arrows are scored. But that would be FITA/WA. Vegas several years ago went to scoring using the rules in the order written, like what nestly noted, where the highest is pulled and the remaining 3 are scored (assuming 4 arrows shot) with a -1 point penalty. Not sure how Vegas scoring is being interpretted now by the officials?

Regarding the patching of arrows holes, the 2016 Vegas rules have actually been in effect in Vegas for several years now. There was a year where Vegas stated absolutely no patching (I think Lancasters did or still enforces this rule?), so archers were replacing targets every end where they had arrows holes off center. Rule was eased to allow for patching the next year due to the volume targets used. NFAA uses the term "defacing" which implies disfiguring. Patching a hole is not defacing, though it is enhancing the aiming spot. However, the NFAA rule specifically references defacing in terms of enhancing. Hence patching is allowed in the NFAA events as well unless otherwise restricted by the tournament committee.

My understanding anyway.............

>>------------>


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

Interesting that Vegas rules do not follow NFAA rules. 

5.11 When using the Vegas 3-spot target:

5.11.1 An archer may shoot the 3-spot target in any order, and shoot three arrows
into any spot as the archer desires, not to exceed the prescribed number of
arrows per end.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

TNMAN said:


> Interesting that Vegas rules do not follow NFAA rules.
> 
> 5.11 When using the Vegas 3-spot target:
> 
> ...


Thought I saw this somewhere, just couldn't remember where and for what.....


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

montigre said:


> The larger competitions (both WA and NFAA) prohibit repairing/defacing target faces during a competition; however, you can still see it done at some local and state shoots. I saw a shooter once pen a little symbol in the corner of his target, I assume so it would be easier to spot and create less chance of shooting the wrong target--he was cautioned and asked to change target faces by the line judge. I prefer to play it safe and not mess with them.


I carry an orange button cap that i place at the top center of my target , so i know its mine...i seen a couple pros do this at midwest open...i was having the round of my life and shot the wrong target on the 11th end...later in the day is when i seen this mysterious placement of a button cap...ive been doing it since and no one has said a thing.

I also witness.. A LOT of archers repairing holes locally (all NFAA style/rules shoots), im fairly new to spots and to.me it didnt seem right..but i didnt question it..seems if its not legal...hmm


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I shot Vegas a few years ago with a top pro in my group. A top pro that has been admired many times on AT. At Vegas, you can put up a new target every end if you wish. This top pro took a nail and using the end with the head repaired all holes outside of the X.

I mentioned to the judge that this should stop as I am not allowed to do so. The judge did nothing to stop him.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Why weren't you allowed to repair your own arrow holes? Nothing in the current rules or the rules from the past several years prohibiting this as long as one does not delay the tournament in the process.

>>--------->


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## Rabbit57 (Jun 15, 2012)

And on the other hand, last weekend I was competing in an NFAA 600 round. I was warned because my "X" circle was so shot up in 2 of the 3 rings that it was unreadable to score by the judge so, I just replaced the target. Of course I left the whole there because it gave me a nice big dot to shoot at. Scored a 591. 

This judge here in Illinois judges many, many NARAA & FITA events. And for 70 his scores are almost unbeatable in the Senior and Masters. So I know he knows the real deal. 

I Did know about that.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

CHPro said:


> Why weren't you allowed to repair your own arrow holes? Nothing in the current rules or the rules from the past several years prohibiting this as long as one does not delay the tournament in the process.
> 
> >>--------->



Vegas follows the NFAA rules and always announces prior to shooting that it is OK to replace the target every end but not to repair the target. I realize that it is impossible to understand what is being said over the loudspeakers at Vegas but this is announced every year.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

huteson2us2 said:


> Vegas follows the NFAA rules and always announces prior to shooting that it is OK to replace the target every end but not to repair the target. I realize that it is impossible to understand what is being said over the loudspeakers at Vegas but this is announced every year.


Perhaps not always the case, but 2016 Vegas rules clearly states holes may be repaired.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

nestly said:


> Perhaps not always the case, but 2016 Vegas rules clearly states holes may be repaired.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


Thank you for the info. I'm leaving within the hour to drive to Vegas. I'll run out to my garage and grab a couple of nails.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

huteson2us2 said:


> Thank you for the info. I'm leaving within the hour to drive to Vegas. I'll run out to my garage and grab a couple of nails.


Must be nice....I spent the whole day getting here from Pennsylvania yesterday

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Watched archers in all classes repairing targets using a variety of methods so at least in Vegas, no one cares.

With regard to shooting multiple arrows into one spot, unfortunately I watched my buddy shoot an X into spot #1 followed by an X then 10 into spot #2. He only had 15 seconds left when he realized the mistake but managed to get a quick fire a "9" into spot #3 just before clock ran out. The judge ruled that the "X" in #2 be disregarded and the "10" in #2 be reduced to a "9", so as per the rules, he was only assessed a one point "penalty" for shooting 4 arrows instead of taking a zero had there been no arrow in one of the spots.

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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't understand this thread. Sitting at home from Vegas with Achilles surgery. You can replace your face after every end if you desire. What is the issue?


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

oldpro888 said:


> I don't understand this thread. Sitting at home from Vegas with Achilles surgery. You can replace your face after every end if you desire. What is the issue?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


The original question is about the legality and ethics of selectively repairing hole so as to improve the aiming point. Replacing the entire face doesn't improve the aiming point, but having a big hole in the middle could (depending on the archers preferences)

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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Rabbit57 said:


> And on the other hand, last weekend I was competing in an NFAA 600 round. I was warned because my "X" circle was so shot up in 2 of the 3 rings that it was unreadable to score by the judge so, I just replaced the target. Of course I left the whole there because it gave me a nice big dot to shoot at. Scored a 591.
> 
> This judge here in Illinois judges many, many NARAA & FITA events. And for 70 his scores are almost unbeatable in the Senior and Masters. So I know he knows the real deal.
> 
> I Did know about that.


Who was the judge? I'm from Illinois and can't really think who would be 70, but then I've been out of it for a while. Jim Anderson is my age or at least we shot together during some Indoor, Outdoor and Field events....We were both Senior Adult Free Style back then and now our age would put us in the older class, whatever the heck that is....


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## sam1911 (Oct 8, 2012)

Many tournaments prohibit it. FITA for sure hates

This year was the first year that I remember that the Lancaster Archery Classic didn't allow it however the Vegas shoot was fine with it.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I used the nail I took to Vegas and no one said anything. It was not allowed a few years ago but seems OK now. I loved shooting at a small black hole in the X ring. It really improved my score.


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## f40mcd (Jan 28, 2012)

I lost 4 9's in the same small hole last weekend. Shoulda changed target but never really got any big gaping holes because I only shoot 2315's. Not sure if not changing it was right or wrong. 

Guy few lanes down had 27's and his 10 rings looked like black abyss. Think he shot a 598. 

I need to just get 27's SMH











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