# Olympic Style Recurve help



## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Ok, I've been shooting traditional recurves instinctively for the last 5 years. I was thinking of picking up olympic recurve style to help my form etc. In that regard, I recently picked up a 23" Aerotech riser and 36# CRX Limbs. What else do I need?

What sights and stabilizers do you guys recomend? Do I need other stuff?
What kind of arrow should I be using? My draw length is 28".


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## archer982 (Jun 6, 2007)

Try picking up a Cartel sight and Shibuya plunger, both are pretty decent at the entry level.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

How about a sure-loc sight? Are plungers allowed in Olympic recurve?

Also, how do I tell the difference between a recurve and a compound sight?


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## krfoss (Aug 25, 2006)

Plungers are necessary, and I would also reccomend the shibuya. Its cheep (in comparison to the others) and it work GREAT. Dont waste your time with a beiter until you are shooting 1200 scores. 
A sure-loc sight is an excellent sight. Olympians use it, so the sight is up there in quality, to be sure. The cartel is a good beginner sight, however if you can afford it, the shibuya double click is great (and it sounds as if you are looking for higher quality equipment).
A stabilizer is key. The cartel is good for beginners. Stay away from V-bars until you have shot for a while.
Apart from those things, the tab, the rest (anything works, just so long as you like it), and finger sling are also needed, and no need to go off the deep end with those. 

For arrows, Im not sure what spine you will need because I dont know what poundage you have on your fingers, nor exactly how long arrow you will need. However, the Easton ACC is the best arrow for a serious olympic beginner. They are entry level, work very well, and have the aluminum core so they can be found with metal detectors when shot over the bale (hey, it happens). 

Anyhow, good luck, and I'm glad that you have seen the light of Olympic archery.


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

How much do you want to spend? Olympic Recurves are kind of like vampires, after the initial bite they can quickly suck you dry. :wink:

You will need a plunger in order to tune an OR. You can probably shoot one without a plunger, but your arrows will have to be dead-on in spine. Shibuya and Cavalier make perfectly good plungers that sell for around $30. The Beiter is considered top-of-the-line and sells for ~$100. Stay away from the Cartel plungers. (I am told their Beiter knock-off is ok, if you replace the innards with Beiter parts.)

Stabilizers are probably the most personal of all OR equipment. They range from the dead cheap Cartel Carbon Long Rod to the top-of-the-line (and priced accordingly) Beiter Centralizer. You can get by with a Cartel, but if you are serious, you are going to want to experiment. A good minimum starting length is 30", although most seem to use between 32" and 36." If you are going to shoot an OR riser, you will need a stabilizer, many of the risers don't shoot well without them. In particular, TEC bar risers seem to need some sort of stabilizer. 

Sure-Locs are considered very good sights, as are Shibuyas. I do not like Cartel sights, but that is my preference. If I were going to set up an Aerotec, I would probably not go lower than a Shibuya Dual-Click sight. Bad sights will frustrate you very quickly.

Other odds and ends include a good string and a matched set of arrows. All can be had for pretty reasonable prices. For strings, I like Majesty, but there are many other materials that are just as good. For arrows, if you are shooting for the recreation (or only indoors), probably aluminum will serve you well. A set of X7's will go a long way. If you want carbons, but aren't going to shoot long distances (or compete), try the Navigators. They are supposedly very good, and aren't too pricey.

If you are going to shoot Olympic style, you will also need a clicker. Beiter makes the standard blade clicker. Have someone who knows what they are doing assist you with setting the clicker up. There are several schools of thought regarding when you should start using a clicker ("immediately", "as soon as you are consistent", and "what's a clicker?":wink, you will have to decide what works for you.

Lastly, you will need a rest. The Hoyt Super Rest sells for $2 and is still well regarded. You can also get a variety of stick on rests for $20 - $40. Personally, I use ARE magnetic rests and like them. Depending on your budget and you interest, a Super Rest may be all you need.

Hope that helps.

PC-

BTW: why a 23" Aerotec? At your draw length, you may get some finger pinch, unless you use long limbs.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

I think with that riser/limb combo It will be around 38# on my fingers.

I don't really like tabs, so I'll probably stick with my gloves. I just want to point out I'm not a entry level shooter. More of an intermediate. I want to get the best equipment I can so I don't have to spend more money in the future to get it.

I am just not familiar with the different brand names and the different types of equipment allowed under Olympic Recurve rules. I've always had a dream of going into the olympics but probably never going to happen since I'm already 40 and haven't trained to shoot as a kid like everyone else. I was told that I was a natural at it though and thats why I got into archery. That and the fact that my last name translates to "Longbow" LOL.

I worked with a coach(Len Cardinal) for a few weeks and he fixed some of my more glaring form problems. I just want to see if the problems I'm seeing are due to the fact that I'm using a traditional bow with wooden arrows. Trying to figure out why sometimes I can shoot 2 inch groups in the bullseye and other times I just scatter the arrows all over the target.


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## bsu_beginner (Feb 14, 2005)

Did I hear you right that its a 23" riser? Interesting for your draw that you'd be using a 23".


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

bsu_beginner said:


> Did I hear you right that its a 23" riser? Interesting for your draw that you'd be using a 23".


Was that a mistake? I thought the shorter the riser, the more power it generates? I am going to be using Long limbs. The limbs are 34# Long CRXs.

ps>According to a tutorial site I just found, that means my bow length will be 68" with a draw weight of 36#?


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

MoonDragn said:


> Was that a mistake? I thought the shorter the riser, the more power it generates? I am going to be using Long limbs. The limbs are 34# Long CRXs.


I don't think the power generated will be that much greater. However, you could get finger pinch at full draw. Since you are using long limbs, that will not be much of a problem, but you may find the sight window to be too short.

As for the brands, there are many to choose from. I would ditch the glove and got to a tab, if you are anchoring under the chin, the glove may not give you a positive enough contact.

"Best equipment" is a very expensive proposition. A high-end OR setup will cost upwards of $1500. What is you budget? What are your goals? I gave you some of the basics in my previous post, but I am guessing that you want something more specific. For that I need to know what you really have in mind.

PC-


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

I just want whatever it takes to win a competition LOL.
Seriously though, $1500 is not really a problem. My traditional recurve was $1100. I already have the riser and the limbs so thats out of the way. I think I'll go with a shibuya sight like you mentioned. I picked up a check-it clicker, that should work right?

I anchor at the corner of my mouth and I prefer to anchor there. I've tried tabs and I just don't like them. I'm using damascus gloves and they are thin enough that I have very good contact with the string. I don't think that would be a problem.

I think the clicker and the stabilizer should fix most of my problems. What I really wanted was just a list of good brands and how much each piece of accessory helps out in your accuracy/consistency. Is there really that much difference between a $50 sight and $300 sight/stabilizer?


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Paradoxical Cat said:


> If you want carbons, but aren't going to shoot long distances (or compete), try the Navigators.


I was just sitting her holding my brand new Navigators feeling sorta on top of the world. Sometimes I hate reading AT.



-Andrew


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## Targetbutt (Jan 19, 2006)

The difference, I think, between a $50 sight and a $200-$300 sight is convenience. With the $50 Cartle K sight you have to loosen 2 screws to move the sight up and down. With something like the dual click you loosen 1 screw, a sureloc or a shibuya ultima has no screw to loosen. 

Would be kind of hard to get to the longer distances anchoring way up by your mouth though wouldn't it?


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Ahhh, if thats the only difference then a cheaper sight really doesn't matter to me. What do you think of the check-it IB18?

Why would I have problems with longer range with anchor at the mouth instead of the chin? When you shoot longer range, aren't you supposed to bend at the hips?


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

MoonDragn said:


> I just want whatever it takes to win a competition LOL.
> Seriously though, $1500 is not really a problem. My traditional recurve was $1100. I already have the riser and the limbs so thats out of the way. I think I'll go with a shibuya sight like you mentioned. I picked up a check-it clicker, that should work right?
> 
> I anchor at the corner of my mouth and I prefer to anchor there. I've tried tabs and I just don't like them. I'm using damascus gloves and they are thin enough that I have very good contact with the string. I don't think that would be a problem.
> ...


If money is no object, go with a Shibuya Ultima sight, it costs, but is one of the best out there.

I don't know the check-it clicker. If it is a sight mount, I wouldn't use it. 

And be warned, a clicker will cause as many problems as it can to solve. If your draw length is not set or you don't have properly sized arrows, it can make shooting a nightmare. Have your coach assist you with setting it up. Also, you will probably need to spend some time (perhaps significant) getting used to the clicker. Anticipating the clicker can be a big problem for archers who have just starting to use them.

If you truly want to compete, I am going to reiterate that you really shouldn't mouth anchor with OR. If you are interested in hitting the longer distances you will have to go to a chin anchor, like it or not. Particularly with your riser and its short sight window, you will need to chin anchor. My advice is to get a Cavalier or Win & Win tab and start working with it. (I started in traditional archery as well, swore by the glove, mouth anchored, and despised tabs. I currently chin anchor and use a Cavalier tab with a shelf. It can be done.)

I would also recommend that you get a copy of Kisik Lee's "Total Archery" or Frangili's "Heretic Archer" or look at www.kslinterationalarchery.com. If you are still using your coach, you need to start training yourself into the OR shooting style, if you want to compete. If not, don't worry about it.

Is there a difference between a $50 and a $300 sight? Absolutely. Both will help you aim, but one may be more reliable, easier to adjust, and less likely to shift. My rule on sights is "get the best."

As for stabilizers, there is no way to tell you what is better for you. I went through 7 or 8 configurations before arriving at my current set-up, and I will probably change it again. You are going to have to experiment. But for the moment, I would recommend a good, but less expensive long-rod as a minimum. You probably won't go wrong with anything made by Beiter, Cartel, Doinker, Easton, Shibuya or Win&Win. I'd buy something less expensive, because, as your form develops, you will probably change your setup. Run a search on this board and at Texas Archery to find articles and threads on stabilization. It can get pretty complicated.

Good luck,

PC-


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

spangler said:


> I was just sitting her holding my brand new Navigators feeling sorta on top of the world. Sometimes I hate reading AT.
> 
> 
> 
> -Andrew


Navigators are supposedly great arrows, but they are a bit heavy for getting out to 90 meters.

I am sure someone is competing very well with them somewhere....

Enjoy them..

PC-


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

MoonDragn said:


> I just want whatever it takes to win a competition LOL.
> Seriously though, $1500 is not really a problem. My traditional recurve was $1100. I already have the riser and the limbs so thats out of the way. I think I'll go with a shibuya sight like you mentioned. I picked up a check-it clicker, that should work right?
> 
> I anchor at the corner of my mouth and I prefer to anchor there. I've tried tabs and I just don't like them. I'm using damascus gloves and they are thin enough that I have very good contact with the string. I don't think that would be a problem.
> ...


MoonDragn:

A $50 sight is no comparison to the tolerances in machining
for the $300 sights.

$$ no object.
My recommendations for a top flight Oly Recurve set of equipment:

Recurve Sight:
Copper John ANTS EVO II FITA sight

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=39_90_359&products_id=2683


recurve aperature:
Beiter Sight Tunnel with interchangeable inserts

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=39_315&products_id=2709


Front stabilizer:
Beiter front stabilizer - probably a 37-inch for now.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=41_312&products_id=2550


V-bar:
Beiter 

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=41_310&products_id=2459


Front extender:
Beiter - insert the extender into the front stabilizer hole,
and then install the v-bar, and then install the front stabilizer.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2471


Side rods:
Beiter - 12-inch model
Add weights to the side rods to balance the front stabilizer
to get the forward roll speed you want.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2478



Use the glove for now.
When you are serious about Olympic target shooting,
then you will need to use a finger tab,
and you will need to switch to the under the chin anchor,
if you want to hit 90 meters (nearly 100 yards).


Finger Tab:
Cavalier Elite with Cordovan Leather face
The cordovan leather face will give you the fastest arrow speed.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=49_234&products_id=1118


Finger Tab spacer:
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=49_234&products_id=1124



Custom Grip:
Contact Paul at www.jaegergrips.com

Ask for a custom B.E.S.T. grip for your aerotech.
This will help you get the "correct" bow hand position,
if you decide to experiment with the Biomechanically Efficient Shooting Technique.


Plunger:
Beiter - there is no equal.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2071


Arrow rest:
Cavalier Free Flyte

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=40_116&products_id=1968


Custom bowstring:
Angel Majesty with Majesty center serving


Arrows:
Many choices....

Carbon Express Nanos
Easton X10
Easton ACE
Easton Navigator



Bowstand:
Shibuya

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=51_239&products_id=1205



Recurve case:
Aurora

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=52_247&products_id=1468




This list is the best of the best or
at least, close to it.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Ahhh thanks! Whats the recurve apeture for?

I think I understand what you are saying with the chin anchor. Since the recurve sight window isn't big enough for the sight to go down to the 90m range if I anchor at my mouth. I wonder if there is anyway around that...


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

MoonDragn said:


> Ahhh thanks! Whats the recurve apeture for?
> 
> I think I understand what you are saying with the chin anchor. Since the recurve sight window isn't big enough for the sight to go down to the 90m range if I anchor at my mouth. I wonder if there is anyway around that...


Very high draw weight (>50#)....and extremely light arrows..

The aperture is a replacement for the sight pin that comes with whatever sight you decide to purchase. The Beiter allows you to choose different sighting elements. However, some are not FITA-legal for recurve.

PC-


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## Targetbutt (Jan 19, 2006)

MoonDragn said:


> Why would I have problems with longer range with anchor at the mouth instead of the chin? When you shoot longer range, aren't you supposed to bend at the hips?


When you have the back of the arrow up by the mouth, you then have to raise the bow higher to get the same distance. Another issue with corner of mouth anchor is, it's very hard to get the consistency that you need to shoot FITA. 

As others have noted, there's also a difference in built. A friend who uses the cartel K sight, while he has no problem with the sight block rattling loose the sight bar sometimes do. Another friend uses cartel's top model sight and the set screw came loose.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

MoonDragn said:


> Ahhh thanks! Whats the recurve apeture for?
> 
> I think I understand what you are saying with the chin anchor. Since the recurve sight window isn't big enough for the sight to go down to the 90m range if I anchor at my mouth. I wonder if there is anyway around that...


When you use a sight for recurve,
the threaded rod screws into the sight block.

Sight block is just a hunk of metal,
with an insert, that the threaded rod screws into.

The sight block has a "windage" adjustment,
that allows you to easily, and precisely
move the entire sight block to the left or to the right.


The inserts are your aiming dot.
You line up the aiming dot onto the bullseye,
and then fire away.

The goal is to adjust the plunger button tip (left or right)
and
adjust the aperature aiming dot (left or right)
until you can have your arrows hitting straight,
at short,
at medium
and long ranges.


You need to get the arrow stiffness exactly correct
as well.


Walk back tuning is very effective.


When you are ready,
send me a pm,
and I can help you through all the tuning procedures
to have great fun shooting a target recurve.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

MoonDragn said:


> How about a sure-loc sight? Are plungers allowed in Olympic recurve?
> 
> Also, how do I tell the difference between a recurve and a compound sight?




Recurve target sight will fit an aperature with a threaded rod diameter
of 8/32nds inch.

Compound target sight will fit an scope rod with a threaded rod diameter of 10/32nds inch.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Wow, that sounds really complicated. I'm thinking to just go to a local pro shop and have them help me tune the bow and pick the right arrows.

I still don't understand how a tab can affect my shooting over a glove. My glove is very thin and I get very good response from it. I can shoot bare fingers but it hurts after a while.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

MoonDragn said:


> Wow, that sounds really complicated. I'm thinking to just go to a local pro shop and have them help me tune the bow and pick the right arrows.


Make absolutely sure that the local pro shop has recurve bow expertise.

Most pro shops are focused on compound bows.

I taught myself to become an arrow expert,
because of a poor experience with a pro shop
and arrow recommendations.

Archery software one of the best ways
to design arrow specifications to get the right arrow length
so the arrow will fly properly.

The other best way is to find a very experienced
recurve target shooter, at an archery club,
and get their recomendations
or
find an experienced recurve archery coach.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I have all of the top recurve sights

I think the Sureloc and the Shibuya Ultima are the best with the dual click being the best for the money. The ultima with the aluminum extension is the best under 200

the only think I don't like about the copper john is that if you use the cavalier clicker-which I prefer over the beiter, is that you have to machine the extension for it to fit


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

I already know a little bit about arrows as I make my own cedar arrows for my traditional recurve. However, I find that tuning carbon arrows is so difficult to do. My traditional recurve is a centershot off the shelf black widow. I think it would not be too difficult to transition into the plunger/rest style. Tuning it still is the biggest hassle.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Incidentally. I currently have some Quickshot carbon arrows spined for about 35#. I wonder if I can just use them on this bow.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

A tab is required as it allows you to have a solid consistant under the chin anchor. I would start with a Gompy or an AF tab or some thing with a large comfortable platform. The under the chin anchor will drop the anchor and give you more elevation for the longer distances.Use a finger spacer on your tab this will help give you a consistant anchor height. As for tuning down load and read the Easton tuning guide. Not too many people know more about the way an arrow behaves off a bow than Easton.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

MoonDragn said:


> Incidentally. I currently have some Quickshot carbon arrows spined for about 35#. I wonder if I can just use them on this bow.


Only one way to be sure and that is to strip the vanes off one of them and bare shaft tune.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

jerrytee said:


> Only one way to be sure and that is to strip the vanes off one of them and bare shaft tune.


They have feathers  I couldn't use vanes on my traditional recurve cause I shot off the shelf and the vanes kept bouncing off. I do have some easton arrows with vanes on em too. Bareshaft tuning is such a pain though.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

For the Beiter Stabilizer, whats the difference between the 16mm and the 28mm stud? Also Does it matter if the threads are 5/16 or metric?


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

MoonDragn said:


> For the Beiter Stabilizer, whats the difference between the 16mm and the 28mm stud? Also Does it matter if the threads are 5/16 or metric?


The length of the stud that threads into your riser. I use a 28mm stud because I thread my long rod through the open hole of a v-bar and then into an extension which threads into the riser itself.

You want to get the same threadtype that your riser is tapped for, so I would suggest deciding on a riser first, then accessories.

-Andrew


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

MoonDragn said:


> For the Beiter Stabilizer, whats the difference between the 16mm and the 28mm stud? Also Does it matter if the threads are 5/16 or metric?


Pretty sure that the Hoyt Aerotec
has a 5/16 (fine thread) bushing,
so you would order a Beiter front stabilizer with the 5/16 thread.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Was just going down the list and picking up stuff I could on ebay. I got a cheaper sight for now, I'll go for the more expensive ones once I get better at this. I was bidding on some easton stabilizers but someone outbid me and I think I like those beiter ones better anyway I may just go get those. Never thought it was like rocket science to shoot an Olympic Recurve LOL.

I'm getting the hang of the approximate price ranges of items based on brand etc. Trying to find the best deals to get me started. Now I just have to find a place to practice. The ranges I go to don't really have 90m ranges.


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

MoonDragn said:


> Now I just have to find a place to practice. The ranges I go to don't really have 90m ranges.


I wouldn't worry about 90m until you have mastered the set up and the new shooting style, particularly the clicker. Your blood pressure and arrow budget will thank you.

Do not be surprised if you go through several iterations of setting up and tuning to start with. The OR has a lot more adjustment than a traditional bow. You will be reconfiguring quite a bit until you get the bow adjusted "just right."

With that going against you, doing the initial tuning at 90m will be a new form of h*ll for the newly converted.

PC-


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Yeah, I'll be doing the tuning at 20 LOL. I've just never shot the 122cm targets before. I have shot all ranges up to 200 yards with my traditional recurve and I know how tough it can be.


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## krfoss (Aug 25, 2006)

Hey, the 23" Aerotec you just bought, did you get it on ebay? And/or, what does it look like (im trying to win a bet with a friend)


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm pretty sure it is the same one clover archery was selling. The blue red flame one. It is still in the mail and I have not received it yet but the description here matches that one on ebay.


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## krfoss (Aug 25, 2006)

Excellent! That was my old riser. Its in great shape, shoots perfectly, and is the reason why I still shoot an Aerotec. Have fun with it. It sounded like you are still looking for a stabilizer and dont want to go with the beiter (its pretty expensive. I have a W&W Fomax for sale on ebay at a great deal. I used it with that Aerotec and will tune up pretty well.


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

Actually, I'm bidding on a beiter now. If I don't win it, I'll just order one from Lancaster archery. I like that weight system thing, I think it works and makes it light enough to balance the bow. (anybody bidding against me be warned... I got alot of money to dump into it )


I really don't have that kind of problem with my form though so a stabilizer may or may not even help me. My main form problem has to do with the draw to full length, which a clicker will solve.


Also I have a question about that riser. The wording said that it can be used with the BEST system. Does that mean I'll have to buy a new grip? or do something with the existing one?


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## Progen (Mar 17, 2006)

For a guy who stuck stubbornly to a full set of the Beiter stabilizers for more than a year, I can tell you they're definitely nowhere light. Kind of heavy in fact with the weight pretty balanced throughout and if you don't put a fairly heavy, say 50 grams or so weight in front, you won't feel much stabilization at your poundage which was what I was shooting last year. Had a 33" 3 tuner front rod, 2 no tuner side rods, 3" extender and 90 x 17 degree V-bar. I soldiered on with that for a while before getting the weight adapter but the 38 gram weight I took off a Cartel Triple damper didn't do much and I could barely feel any difference. Even shifting two of the tuners a good few inches towards the front didn't do anything, feelwise.

I think the description for the grip on the riser you bought meant that it'd been built up to something similar to the JMB grips we've been raving about.


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## Paradoxical Cat (Apr 25, 2006)

MoonDragn said:


> Also I have a question about that riser. The wording said that it can be used with the BEST system. Does that mean I'll have to buy a new grip? or do something with the existing one?


You need to do neither. However, you may want to do either. Learn to shoot using the B.E.S.T. system, then decide what modifications you want to make. A good coach can show you how to modify your grip.

PC-


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## MoonDragn (Jun 19, 2006)

I just got the riser and man you scratched the heck out of it. The grip doesn't fit and I have no desire to go file it down. I ordered a Hoyt BEST grip from Jaeger and hopefully it will cover up all the ugly scratches you put under the grip.


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