# Awesome News on BowTech



## JDES900X (May 22, 2002)

Big deal! I was wondering how long it woudl take for some archery company starving for business to use the "rebate scam". Gee... "Let's charge a couple hundred bucks more than our whatchamagitzit is worth, then we'll rebate $50.00 and every sucker will think they're getting a deal." I hate rebates- in fact I abhor them. Companies who issue rebates are figuring that half of the slobs that get fooled into buying their stuff are too lazy to fill out the rebate form anyway, or they will be out of business before you realize that you never got paid. I can hear it now" If you purchase this new Honda before yesterday for only $90,000., we'll throw in a free motivational cassette tape and a $1,000.00 cash back bonus!!! So wadya say....


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## Top Cat (Jun 22, 2002)

*Rebate*

Wow Jim, Not a big fan of rebates? How about Bowtec bows?


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## Marcus (Jun 19, 2002)

As a computer dealer I see this an aweful lot and am with Jim on it. 
The rebate scam is just that. The company offers in in order to actually save money while giving the illusion of giving back to the user. For example, it usually takes 1-2 months to get your rebate, in that time your money is sitting in THEIR bank account amassing interest for them. Consider that many computer copanies have millions of $ sitting there for the rebates, it's alot of interest money. 

On the other side, if you were considering a Bowtech bow then why not take advantage of it?


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## clever_guy (May 21, 2002)

JimD;

Gee, kind of hard on Bowtec there Jim, it's just a promotional campaign. Every company has some marketing gimick at one time or another, to pull in more customers.

Mind you, I am one of those slobs who would probably never get around to sending in the rebate - so I would never buy a bow based on a rebate offer. Myself, I just like to see a good price on a good product. Heck, I don't even mind paying more for a better product. 



-CG


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Jim,

I think you should calm down, pick up a new Super Nova and start practicing.
I recommend the silver with gold hardware like mine.
Then when you win Vegas again, you can thank me. 
You're welcome ahead of time, Jim. 



Sag.


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## JDES900X (May 22, 2002)

CLEVER GUY,
I have just been bamboozled by rebates before. In fact, in about four tries with rebates, I haven't been paid yet. The last time was with BRIDGESTONE tires. I waited and waited for several months for a $75.00 rebate, and when I finally got a person on the phone who might be able to help me, they informed me that the rebate period was over and I had missed it. So sorry guys if you think I should calm down, I won't. I just had a conversation about the "rebate thing" two days before this thread was posted and I knew then that some company would try this scam before long. That is why I jumped on their case. Why should someone be able to charge more, hold your money and then only give some of it back? Because people are are foolish enough to let them, that's why. In fact, I think the whole idea of a factory rebate reekes of scam. I just hate to see this sort of tactic used in archery that's all.
Sag,
By the was that SUPERNOVA is a beautiful bow! I had a chance to examine Larry Wise's setupat the NFAA OUTDOOR and I liked the bow very much. Definitely a shootable bow.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I agree with Jim, just because sales are down you come out with a rebate, how about keeping a fair price all the time like Martin does, rebates are for TV, tires and that kind of stuff,.Just my opinion.

Scott


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Hey, Jim.

Thanks for the comment on the Super Nova.
I think it's beautiful too.
Just trying to razz you a little bit.
I know, you're not going to put your Martin bows away.
Are you going to shoot the new Scepter III at Vegas ?
It's a great looking bow too and looks like a shooter, also. 


Sag.


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

Amen Brother Jim...

Everytime I have tried the rebate route I felt like I was trying to collect on an insurace claim!! 

Fill this out ...fill that out ... include 2 copies of this ... have it in by x time... 2 months later no money.. contact the company we need this and that etc... etc... etc...

Plus considering the delievery times on bows and parts from dealers and some bow companies I would probably get my rebate before i got the product being rebated... Then I would really be upset


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

If you don't like the rebate plan don't take advantage of it. It doesn't mean you have to talk trash about it though. They are not offering it to customers because they are having a bad sales year acctually they are having a GREAT year for sales. They are the fastest growing archery company ever to date in our Industry! 
The consumer doesn't have to do a thing to get the rebate other than purchase the bow. The dealers are responsible for the rest of the paper work to be sent in. What's wrong with saving $50.00 on a bow versus a TV, computer, or whatever else offers a rebate? BowTech knew they were the first company to offer this, shouldn't that earn them some respect?

By the way - you trash talk BowTech saying its terrible for an archery company to get in to - when you represent archery too and what a bad opinion your attitude will convey. Think about it...actually think about what you say before you say it next time! I would be embarassed if I was you for putting your name at the bottom of something like that. Like it or not . . . act professional aren't you suppose to be! I know if I were to act in the manner as you I would be embarrased when I re-read what I wrote. By the way...the rebate's do not raise the price of the bow...they give money back to the end users without costing the Dealer any money. This when you think about it makes a whole lot more sense than screwing the Dealer out of sales by selling bows through another channel thats bad for Pro-shops like some.

Sorry to get so emotional...its what I thought needed to be said.


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## JDES900X (May 22, 2002)

Bow Tech Shooter,
You can get as mad as you want at me, but I am not trash talking any company in particular here. I am not embarrassed at all. I have voiced my opinion here that is all. Agree, disagree, or be indifferent, that is your choice here on these forums. Speak or be silent that is your choice too. If we were all silent, it would get pretty darn boring around here wouldn't it? I just happen to despise rebates as a way of selling any product, regardless of what it is. Do you think that because a particular company was the first to offer a rebate that anyone should respect them for it? Do you think that any company just decides from the goodness of their heart to give a customer $50.00? I think not. It is built into the price of the product. I believe a product should sell on its own merits, not because they can advertise a lower price in large print and then show a rebate calculation in fine print. If you think rebates are so great, why don't you go buy one and take yourself out to dinner on them. It is still your money no matter how you slice it.


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## 3dman1 (May 25, 2002)

Bowtech shooter you should think about jumping ship before it sinks. I think bowtech makes some good looking bows but this company has been around the block before and didnt make the cut then and it wont now. I am fairly certain they are having finacial dificulties right now I herd from one of there supliers that they are having dificulty getting payed I used to want a bowtech but I am afraid I will be without waranty from another bankrupt bow company. remember oregon bows


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## JeffB (Sep 10, 2002)

My My.

First post here....lurk quite a bit... I recognize some names..Hey Sag!

Jim. You don't know me, But I have met you before. In fact I am patron of one of your good friends in Carmel, NY. I've also met you at a shop in CT. 

I can honestly say I hope you are not representing Martin "officially" on this board (or at least this thread). While I won't begrudge anyone their opinions, I think you've been a bit rash, and are over-reacting. You've had bad luck with rebates before..big deal..so you'll pre judge a company based on other's failings and not by their own merit? That seems quite unreasonable. You know..I hated that X brand bow I bought that had a singlecam...So Martin must be horrid too, eh?

Bowtech wants to put on a rebate? So what? What's so bad about that?

I'm a big fan of Martin product, so don't think I am a Martin "basher". 

I do have a legitimate question for you though....

I'd like you to explain having reps "upgrade" the 2001 Cougar mags (with the new limbsaver riser inserts..they just pop in as you well know, just elaborating for those who may not) still on dealers shelves with the intent that they can be promoted as 2002 models if so inclined? I think that is a far more maddening thing than someone having a rebate. I'm sure you will have some manner of explanation that it was a misunderstanding, but I was witnesss to this not only as it was done, but also from 2 dealers who related similar stories to me (with no prodding I would add) in the country whom I am friendly with. While to you I may not have any credibilty here, but I do think folks like Sag and BTshooter can vouch for me to a certain extent.

Before you get fired up, let me say that it's not my point to slam Martin whatsoever... it's to prove a point...there are some things that all businesses do that some of us won't or don't like.

He who lives in glass houses and all that....

Regards,
JeffB


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

Jim,

How can you honestly say that your not trash talking any particular company here. The thread is strictly about BowTech's rebate they are offering to customers. By the way the rebate is for bows Dealers have in stock. No one raised the prices they have been that way ALL year. Firestone stiffs you on a rebate and you freak out. I haven't heard a complaint from anybody buying a bow - or the Dealers that sell them and don't have to discount them. They support their Dealers better than most I'll tell you that. The Dealer I help out at absolutely thought it was the best program he had ever heard of in this Industry. Most of the time his other reps just push him into having to load his stock up on bows that aren't selling by offering him a huge discount on ordering more. He then has to discount their products just to sell them. That doesn't look good for anyone. I just thought you should have acted a little more professional. I beleive that people that are in the spotlight should be more responsible for what they say. I never tell people at shows and shoots something bad about another manufacturer...you shouldn't either!

Do you think the manufacturer you shoot for would approve of your malitious slandering?


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## JDES900X (May 22, 2002)

BOW TECH SHOOTER,
First of all, I did not slander anyone! Secondly, you obviously have a vested interest in promoting this rebate! 
It is easy for you to hide behind your moniker and put words into my mouth and make false accusations! I have always been open to voicing my opinions on these forums and I do not take it personal just because someone doesn't agree with me. You can if you want to, but life is too short for that. You have not changed my opinion of rebates one bit. You think they are a great idea, that is fine. We agree to disagee.

I stand behind what I have said and that is all that needs to be said.


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## Nino (Jul 9, 2002)

REBATES SUCK!!! If any of you think it is a good deal go ahead and buy that new BT. Rebates are a way to generate money as any sales ploy or scam is. Remember you will be giving Bowtec your money, asking them to hold it for you for a couple months and then hope they send it back. Maybey in time for Christmas. I don't know about you but most archers, hunters, bow hunters what ever would rather have that $50.00 in there pocket for other things. Why doesn't Bowtec just say to the dealer Ok the bows will now be $50.00 off the price that you have already have them marked. give you the buyer an instant rebate of $50.00 off the price and reimburse the dealler? That would not fly with those dealers nor with Bowtec because they would have to come out of there own pocket. But it is the same thing isn't it? Look at the big picture here, it is the purchasers money. Bowtec is making money off of your money with the interest while it sits in there bank account. Kinda like there own bank huh? By the way for you guys blasting Jim remember we are all intiteled to voice our opinions here. When someone finally speeks out against something or just gives his or her own opinion, it seems there is always a pack of hungry dogs to jump on and attack. It is not about profesionalisim it's just a reply and opinion. take it as you like. I still think rebates are a scam and always will. If that sways you to buy a particular bow you are a sucker.
GO Jim GO!!


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Jeff,

Good to see you on Archery Talk.
How's it going ?
Don't just lurk, bring on the posts.
I'm sure, your input would be welcome.


Sag.


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## Bob Barton (Sep 11, 2002)

*Bow Tech*

I would have to agree with JD on the rebate issue. I bought 2 Pentax cameras last Christmas. After jumping through all the hoops to get the $50 rebates. They told us we made a mistake, and refused to honor the rebates. We DIDN'T make a mistake by the way. We were very careful. BowTech may honor the rebate, I don't know. I have one of their bows. If dollar/Value is a big issue in choosing a bow, Martin or Pearson, give some of the best values on the market.


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## Pro1 (May 21, 2002)

*Stand Tall*

Yes Jim as you have now found out. If you have an OPINION better keep it to yourself ESPECIALLY if it is NOT the same as the masses. They will attempt to rip you to shreds, email your sponsors and try EVERYTHING to change your opinion.. Stand tall dude, just as I do.. "Without our beliefs, integrity, and pride we are nothing"....Pro1


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## Jeff Saunders (Aug 5, 2002)

I'm not a great fan of rebates, and I'm less of a fan with this particular one.

"The consumer doesn't have to do a thing to get the rebate other than purchase the bow. The dealers are responsible for the rest of the paper work to be sent in. .."

So in other words this is could really be a dealer rebate. The dealer doesn't even need to tell the buyer about it, and gets to fill in the forms... I wonder what address will be going on the form...


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

I don't think any of you undertsand this rebate. It has to be faxed or mailed in by the dealer. It has to have the customers name on the rebate form and a copy of proof of purchase and thats all. The rebate gets mailed directly to the consumer not the dealer. It's really that simple.

I can't believe that some people can make a terrible thing out of a good thing.

If you don't like rebates then by all means don't take advantage of it. Sounds like a simple solution to me.......

Pro1, I don't mind people having opinions. I have my opinions on everything there is but when they are negative I keep to myself so I don't look like an idiot. I think Jim's was way out in left field for a Professional archer. I believe you are teamates with Jim so I can understand your siding with him and all. 

Just think if about what kind of ammunition I'll have if Martin should ever offer a rebate like this.........Oh wait I remember just a few years back they were giving away a free t-shirt with certain models they were selling... Isn't that a sales gimmick to create a sale?


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## Bob Barton (Sep 11, 2002)

JD wasn't knocking BowTech. He was knocking rebates. It happens to be the norm that you don't get the rebate. most just forget about it. I have tried it a couple of times and have been disappointed. And I am not on JD's team. I shoot BowTech,Mathews, and McPherson. I really hope BowTech does come through. Chill


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## Jeff Saunders (Aug 5, 2002)

Bowtech shooter - I'm more than skeptical (maybe that should be cynical) about dealers filing all the required paperwork. There are more than a few that will never tell a buyer about the rebate deal, and falsely fill in the rebate form to their benefit. Then there will be those who just forget and the deadline will pass...

Like Jim D - I have no gripe with Bowtech - just with rebates in general.

1) I bought a new Chevy a few years ago and the dealer filled out all the paperwork for me. I was supposed to get the rebate check. The dealer 'accidently' filed it with their name & address. It took me 6 months to get everything sorted out and receive a check for $750.00.

2) I bought a computer from the Computer City chain, filed the rebate forms for $100 back from Compaq - I never got paid - I followed up and in the end gave up as I was getting constant runarounds.

Personally, like some of the others posting, I think the rebate approach to selling goods cheapens the public perception of any company offering the 'deal'. As stated by many of the previous posters, too many people have war-stories to tell, and will naturally shy aware from deals like this. I liken this type of selling to telemarketers, the company they represents immediately loses credibility and loses me as a prospective customer by the very fact they use telemarketing (which I view as untrustworthy and an invasion of my precious time).


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## clever_guy (May 21, 2002)

*Lil Rant*

JimD;

I agree, I think the rebate marketing gimmick has been done to death in the last few years. Unless it is an instant unconditional rebate I don't even consider the rebate value. I don't clip coupons either.



Since we are near the subject, what really gets me is having to join "the club" to get "the card" to get a deal on "the stuff". Who thought of the idea of adding bureaucracy to buy something? Why do I want to join a "club" of any sort, I am at a store with money in my hand, I am already in the "consumer" club. Even if it is a "free" card/club, you just know you are going to get another 10-15 more pieces of direct ad mail as the penalty for getting 10% off a $5 item. In a way I am glad that the archery business hasn't evolved to the point where you see those more aggressive marketing gimmicks.

-CG


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

*Rebates Suck!*

I think rebates suck. I don't care who has the rabate, they reek a foul odor! 
I am what other people call a procrastinater. I am always late. I'm certain I'll be late for my own funeral. I have never sent in a thing for a rebate. It's my own fault, no one else's. I'm to the point now where I don't even figure in the rebate, I know I won't be getting it.  
Now on the other hand, the rebate is the marketer's dream come true. They are running a sale, but not marking the price down. IF THE SELLER WAS ACTUALLY LOSING THE MONEY THAT THEY ARE REBATING, WHY WOULDN'T THEY JUST MARK THE PRODUCT DOWN INSTEAD OF MAKING THE CUSTOMER JUMP THROUGH HOOPS TO GET THEIR OWN MONEY BACK? I'm with Marcus here, that money is collecting interest somewhere. 

Now don't get me wrong, if I was going to buy a bow tech ANYWAY, I'd want the dealer to get me my $50 back! But, the rebate wouldn't make my mind up for me. 

Bowtech shooter, no disrespect, I'm not bashing the company here, just the rebate concept. By the way, did them missing bows ever pop back up? Jeremiah.


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## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Not wanting to venture into the fray, I will offer up this comment.

I can attest to Bowtech's credibility on honouring rebate vouchers, I'm sitting here looking at a cheque from them that I received recently. It was not for the current program, but something similar. I mailed in my voucher (I actually think I was a few days late of the deadline) and Bowtech mailed me a cheque several weeks later. While I would have preferred to have the rebate applied at the time of sale, I'm happy for the saving non the less.

Dennis


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## deadeye (Aug 22, 2002)

Great going BowTech!!!!!!!!!

Great way to sell your current line of bows. To make way for a new line. Even though your bows are over priced as well as
Mathews. Don't worry... Be happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

Jeremiah, Nothing on the stolen bows as of yet.

You see with this rebate the dealer has to do all the work so it's his fault if it doesn't get turned in not your own fault if you procrastinate and don't do it. The rebate is to help dealers get some of their stock reduced for the new year and they all seem to really like the idea. I guess if a consumer doesn't want to take advantage of it thats fine. If you were in the market for a new BowTech wouldn't you like to get $50.00 cash back? I would...

They can't discount the bows to the dealers and make this work in favor of the dealer AND the consumer. If they reduced the price of the bows to the dealers who's to say the dealers would lower their price. 

I've been told by many dealers that a very big name in bow manufacturing has lowered the "dealer cost" on their hottest selling bow ever but the savings isn't get passed on to the consumers. The dealers are eating it up... I know if I were a dealer I would too.


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

For the record...

Yes, Martin did offer a free T-shirt as a promotion for the Phantom when it was new. To make sure that the customers got their shirt, it was placed in the box with the bow.


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## Ian (May 21, 2002)

btw Bowtech's not the first archery company to offer a rebate and probably not the last


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

GRIV,

Not trying to stir the pot here but I worked for a Martin dealer during that period and trust me the shirts didn't always get to the customers. Most were intercepted by the workers/owners of the shop. You now as well as I do the dealers open the boxes first and place the bows on the racks or walls. Nor did the bow buyers always get their free stuff from PSE and Hoyt sales either. I wittnessed it...It's just the way some dealers operate I guess...


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

Well.... That is one thing that I don't have any conrtol over. All I can do is make sure that they are in the box when it leaves the plant. 

Not stirring the pot either and wish you the best of luck with the rebate.


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## bull1870 (Sep 7, 2002)

GOOD POST JEFF
PAT,ITS NICE TO SEE A COMPANY
GIVE A LITTLE BACK
SAG, HOW ARE YOU MY FRIEND


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Scott,

Great to see you here on Achery Talk.
Hope you like it here.
Lots of knowledge to be shared.
Good luck again with the shoulder!


Sag.


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## bull1870 (Sep 7, 2002)

THANKS SAG


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## ReconVapor (Aug 26, 2002)

*Bowtech company*

Bowtech shooter,
Like 3dman was saying about oregon bows and such. I too heard that Bowtech was having financial problems. That they have not paid anything to the solo cam patent. Least that is word up here in NW PA. Don't get me wrong, I like Bowtech, have always, myself, I have to Diamond Recon Vapors and love them! Dad has a Pro 38 and I was given one. I work at Gander Mountain there too and I see that we dropped the line to differences between the 2 companies. Did think it was weird that FedEx always delivered them when everything else came from the warehouse. But, everyone will have there opinion about bows just like their vehicles..


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

ReconVapor, Trust me they aren't hurting for money. As a matter of fact right now they are negotiating getting a new office/plant built or leased. They have a bigger and better AMO Show planned than they did last year. Things are looking up....

Just a little information about paying for any patents. BowTech has all their own cam patents and doesn't have to pay any royalties to anyone for them. As a matter of fact there are three bow companies (Diamond being one of them) that are paying BowTech to license their cams. The only thing that BowTech has to license is the Advantage Timber camo the bows are dipped in and Bill Jordan gets that of course.

Gander Mountain was dropped across the board because they didn't comply with the policies set up for them and they had their bows shipped FedEx because that's the way they had their accounts set up.


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## pro38_shooter (Sep 22, 2002)

Not to stir the pot again, but all you guys with the "I heard" comment. Obviously you haven't "heard" we are not the Oregon bow company. Totally different company. Some people just like grasping at straws, when their current bow company, who was once on top, is on a fast downhill slide. 

Ok, now lets hear the next "I Heard" rumor.........


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## Oregon Shooter (Jul 30, 2002)

well it may not be called Oregon bows anymore but it still has the same owners


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

Oregon Shooter, I tried to email you and the system wouldn't let me so I'll post it here. 

There are none of the same owners on board with BowTech that were in with Oregon Bows. The ONLY relationship between the two companies are the man that designs the bows now is the same person that used to license the Black Knight cams to Oregon Bows. In short, he lost a job (licensing fees) when the owners packed up and left.


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## pro38_shooter (Sep 22, 2002)

Thanks Pat, 

I think it's funny, all these people out there that "think" they know all the facts because they "heard" something from "someone"  

I didn't mean to get it stirred but some facts need to be set straight, well, to those who are open to the "correct" facts.

I'll give you a call and see how it is going.


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*Emotions*

Emotions always reign rampant when issues come up.........but there are different views from different people as there are ON ANY ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!..........I for one see Jims point.............and he is right on the rebate issue..............Is he bashing other bow companies............I personally do not think he is...............nor do I think he is bashing BOWTECH...............It takes courage to stand up for ones beliefs........whether you are right or wrong.......I commend ALL of you on BOTH SIDES of the issue!!!!!BUTthe issue is rebates not bow companies...........As Jim said about tires.....and others have said about other products.........it is the issue of rebates and COMPANIES in ANY INDUSTRY!!!!!! I would like to quote Mark Twain here..........."It is the difference of opinion that makes horse races." Inteligent debate based on facts always educates the consumer and helps the manufactuer see where the wind is blowing.........some times the wind is bad some times it turns into a storm........some tinmes it blows in a cool breeze of wisdom........either way.......we are better for the dialoge.........and the discussion..........that is what makes America great and horse races also!!!!!!!!!!!


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*Rebates*

I would like to ask one question..........Did anyone ask, that you know, who bought the van that had the deer on top then let it go after it passed the hunters ask for a rebate? It took a lot of thousands of us hunters to convince one auto company to stop!!!!!! Did you sign the petition? Did you ask for the money back? That is one company that should have made a public apology and given rebates to hunters..............did they? couarge is not "feeling no fear" but as one David Crockett once said," When you beleive you are right then saying it ." He was not so popular either..........neither was Jesus(not comparing Him to any other man) why do you think they hung him on the cross.......because he was popular,,,,,,,,Ha! Convictions on any thing any issue takes srength........I think Jim and the rest of us archers would agree that as archers we all stand tall and that we all are in the fight together to keep archery alive and growing......together.............read Jims line at the end of his messages..........that tells me where his heart is!!!!!!!


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## stodr (Sep 4, 2002)

I will respond to this to give a little history behind the Rebate.

First I would like to say I feel kinda the same way Jim does and others about rebates. But this one started a little different. This first started at the beginning of the year. The rebates were put on the back of the Team BowTech shooters business cards. It was used as a way to see who on the team was was making contact with the public and promoting the product they shoot. It was discontinued after a while because it was not working as planned but the cards were honored if you turned them in. The word was out though and the people looking at bows somehow new about it and was asking about it so they brought it back. I will agree that large companies do do it believing that nobody will turn them in or that they can earn intrest. But do you really think a bow company except for maybe mathews sells enough bows to make a substantial amount on intrest. Between now and the end of the year.

Not bashing Jim I don't beleive he would bash anouther company. But there was a little more to the story then people new about.


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## 3dman1 (May 25, 2002)

I dont know for shure what bowtechs relationship with the old oregon bows was but I do know with out any doubt that they have had problems paying bills within the last year.I have also herd they are doing a little better lately.


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## bohntr (Jun 3, 2002)

Jeff, Pat, Tod 

I guess there have been allot of people that have been burnt one way or another by some company. There is definatly some sceptisism and some bitter people out there on some promotional idea any company puts out there. We need to listen and learn from their thoughts and comments to move forward and make improvments. 
A certain company offered free factory tuning and servicing for the lifetime of the bow. Was that a gimick? Maybe, but it also was for the best interest of the customer. I know Bowtech has a great customer service and is only trying promote their line of bows. Bowtech wants to give the customer that has chosen to spend the cash on one of their bows a little thank you for choosing their product, without affecting dealer profit.
It isn't a bad thing Jim. Ask yourself if it is a BAD THING for prospective customers the opportunity to get their bow of choice a little cheaper and give a polite well tought out reply. 

Lets respect each others thoughts and comments and keep the chit chat friendly.

Allan


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*Timing*

Timing is every thing........was the timing of the rebate a good thing or bad time.......want your opinion........You tell me!!!!


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Although I,m not going to buy a new BowTech bow right now, I believe it is a good marketing move to offer a rebate. I too have been taken with a few rebates in the past but then again I have had good luck with some also. A rebate is only as good as the company who offers it. It seems that BowTech may be offering the rebate to help their dealers move the left over 2002 bows from their inventories, sounds like BowTech wants to help their dealers dosen't it? There are still some people wanting to buy a new bow soon and if someone was going to buy a BowTech anyway don't you think they would enjoy $50.00 cash back? Sounds like BowTech wants to help the customer to me also. Now ya'll go outside and shoot your bow and be glad you live where you do!


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Probably nothing wrong with a rebate once in a great while. As noted, BT is probably just trying to move some older inventory w/o hurting the initial pricing structure for the dealers to make room for '03 stuff. As long as the dealers are comfortable knowing they will probably be first in the firing line should a customer not get their expected rebate in a time period expected as reasonable by the customer. And as long as BT is comfortable relying on their dealers to provide the appropriate and accurate rebate information so that the customer doesn't get disgruntled w/ BT should the dealer be a little on the slow side of things.

Only suggestion I would offer BT is to not make this rebate stuff a habit. Ask the auto industry, jewelry stores, electronics manufacturers, etc. If you offer a rebate often enough, pretty soon the customers will not buy the goods unless a rebate is part of the package deal. The auto industry especially I think has learned this the hard way with little sales for manufacturers during non-rebate periods. Same for electronics and when haven't you walked past a jewelry store offering 50% to 70% off their inventory. Gets to the point the rebate + sticker price are always expected to be the actual selling price and if a merchant is not offering a rebate the perception is that their price will be high in comparison to a merchant that is offering a rebate or sale price -- regardless if the undiscounted price is as good as or better than the rebated price. All a matter of perception by the customer and not necessarily founded in reality.

Just a couple thoughts on the subject. Not condemning or condoning either way. How BT opts to handle the situation is their prerogative imho.

>>-------->


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## Pro40Tech (Oct 6, 2002)

I've worked in retail in a few different ways for about 20 years, the rebates that you all are talking about are not always as you think. As far as the Chevy dealer it is illegal for the dealer to recieve the rebate from G.M. with out your signature. Most rebates also require the dealer to particapate by paying half of the rebate, just last year our company offered a rebat to the consumer, if we gave the rebate to the customer it would have cost us the dealer $500 per deal.
So my point is that there may not be a great rebate offer, but when a company offers to pay the hole rebate without dealer payment its not to bad. Mabe they should nock $50 off each bow but that would mean that the dealer got the $50 off dealer price and not all dealers would give the discount to the consumer. So work with good respectable dealers only. (There are a few)


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*rebates*

knowing Bowtec.........I think they will give the rebates but that is not the issue........the issue I think that the time of the year is bad.........this is the busiest time of the year and the most confusing time of the year and the that the time of the year when most things can go wrong..........but rebates in general usually are FUBARS in any industry with more controversy then money going back.......more introvertently then on purpose.!!!!!!I think that is the issue here..not Bowtech or the 50.00 but the amount of errors that go wrong on any rebates and the underlying issues of who is ethical and who is not and most of the time no one REALLY KNOWS WHO IS TO BLAME......with people making wrong assumptions........which leads to bad customer relations that can lead to lost customers for both the Company and the dealer..........that situation is not good for ANYBODY!!!!!!!!!............I side with JIM...........why go that route......?


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## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

For the record I am a member of Ben Pearson/McPherson Pro Staff

Jim D is a true proffessional in every sense of the word.

Bow Tech Shooter is a very insecure person.

Bow Tech the fastest growing archery company?

Rebates suck!


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## hoytsrus (Oct 16, 2002)

*I agree with toxo and J.D.*

I don't shoot a BowTech, but I agree with J.D and toxo on two points:

1) JD is correct on rebates. They only work if you fill in all the blanks. HOWEVER 99% of the time rebates are done for one of two reasons:..... 

Reason A) 
The company is trying to help the retailer move old inventory, in hopes they will restock new 2003 product... Which basically means to me is this: BowTech sold a bunch of bows to dealers and made a bunch of money, but now the dealers are stuck with stock that is not selling.

Reason B) 
The company that is offering the rebate secretely wants your mailing address in order to send you more junk mail on future rebates etc. I love to buy computer hardware and software and found that I despise rebates for the simple reason I stated. If you get a rebate from a computer company, also expect to get at least 6-10 junk mails and junk e-mails from them in the future !

2) I agree with toxo on the point of timing. Why during the busiest time of the year do you offer a rebate, unless your product is not selling to the public? When Ford or GM are busy, do they drop the interest rates to 0% for 60 months? NOPE.... Ford & GM only drop the rates when things are slow and nobody is buying. Do mortgage rates drop if the economy is good? Nope.... Therefore, I would have to say that toxo's statement about timing reinforces my ideas about BowTech loading up the dealers. BowTech may have had a super year in sales, but I bet most of the 2002 bows they sold are still sitting in the archery shops right now and the dealers are probably getting tired of seeing them and probably complaining to BowTech that they don't need any new 2003 products because they are already overloaded on 2002 models that aren't selling.....

Currently Ford is offering a 0% financing for 60 months on select 2002 vehicles.....2003 models are excluded. Why is it only on 2002 models?? Because they are trying to help the dealers move dead inventory. HOWEVER, pickup trucks are still 2.9% for 60 months. Ford doesn't have to discount the trucks to 0% because the trucks sell faster than the cars do. 

BowTechs rebate sounds like the same basic idea that Ford is using.....move bows that aren't selling.

Seems like a possible scenario....right?


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## Mo0se (Sep 24, 2002)

Thats it!, Im picking up my marbles and going home.


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## Pro40Tech (Oct 6, 2002)

*Rebates*

Well maybe everyone is correct, we still do live in the U.S. and maybe I live in weird part of the country. My Bowtech dealer has only three Bowtechs left on the shelf, one high end bow and two lower line bows, its amazing that everyone says that Bowtech sales are slow and that the company is loading up the dealer, when are store shelves are empty, except for the other brands.
The last time I checked, Ford is the only auto company that forces dealers to take inventory without ordering it. I thought archery dealers are able to order there own products, I guess I didn't know that the archery companies will send product without the dealers approval. I'm going to do some checking on this subject.
Maybe in your part of the country or world that bowtechs do not sale well, here Hoyts do not sell well. Back to the point that we live in the U.S. we are able to choose what we like!

Thank God


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*Bowtechs*

A couple points;
1) Bowtechs are high quality bows......and are our biggest sellers far and away.....We are the LARGEST BOWTECH dealer in New England!!!!!! 
2) I am NOT criticising BOWTECH nor was JIM
3) Rebates was and is the issue
4) A lot of Archery Manufatuers have promotions that the public never sees!!!!!!
5) This was a promotion
6) This was an idea that has been tried before by other companies
7) I do not se a conspiracy to get any ones name or address
8) I think an end of the year clearance is a good idea for any company in ANY BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!........Archery is another BUSINESS!!!!!! Business is business.......and the rules apply to ALL businesses.......Archery, golf, fishing guns etc!!!!!!Business means to make a profit..........if you do not you will NOT HAVE A BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!
Archery is unique in that new models are coming out in the near future!!!!!!
My comments were directed to rebates in general......and that the archery business, as a rule, does 75% of its business in 3 months!!!!!!!!!!Therefor that is the time when stores are hopping and if there was a PROMOTION it should have been done before or after the rush!!!!!!IF ABC Archery had a promotion in July no one would have been up in arms.............Semantics maybe?
And I do know of one company who sends items with out the shops approval!!!!!!! Dealers usualy send them back........and remember that next year!!!!!!!!! Toxo


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## bull1870 (Sep 7, 2002)

pat, i cant wait to see the pics


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2002)

*only 9 minutes......*

....thats all it took for Jimmy to beat BOWTECH over the head....and he is not bashing the company!!!....than what the hell do you call it.....CONTRUCTIVE CRITICISM ....

....Jim Despart...you have made it clear that you have been screwed on a rebate or two....but BASHING a company for offering one is mighty poor sportsmanship the way I see it....and the words and how you used them in your first reply make it so....

....the rest of you can be in awe of Jim and his accompishments and he is well deserving of them...heck he is one of the worlds greatest archers for goodness sake!!....but if you think he did not direct his words at BOWTECH and their rebate....then you need to go and read his first post again....

....shame on you Jim Despart for lashing out at a bow company for offering something to their customers  .....

....and TWO THUMBS up to BOWTECH "for" offering something to their customers...

....I do not have any affiliation with BOWTECH but do know that the local shop that carry's them cannot keep them on the rack....they have sold out of every make model and color that they can get their hands on!!....and have a waiting list for any that come in while "others" hang on the wall....I think that speaks for itself!!....

...that being said....we have "5" MARTINS in our family along with one PSE, three HOYT's and my Daughter has recently received a BOWTECH PATRIOT(no rebate).....

....I welcome any company to do anything to increase the customers intrest in purchasing their product....be it, rebate, cash back, sale pricing, "free" assessories, advertising, etc.....because after all....on this side of the "production line".....the best price we can get for what we would like to have is what we are after....not all of us are "made" of money and FIFTY BUCKS would be welcome to "most" anyone I would think.....

....sorry Jim....but you are wrong here....you and some others may not like rebates and that is fine.....but whipping on BOWTECH for making their offer is "less than" PROfessional from my view....or could it be because they announced it on the MARTIN ARCHERY web site??.....

.....I think an appology to BOWTECH from the ADMINISTRATOR of this site is in order....otherwise you "other" bow companies keep to yourselves and start your own site for such announcements!!...

....sorry everyone, but it's a fault I have....you know....being honest and calling them as I see them.....

DonDeere....just a Farmer

PS...edit, delete, ban ol' DonDeere or whatever....won't hurt my feeling's any...we all live by our WORDS and I will live by mine....


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## JDES900X (May 22, 2002)

REBATES STILL SUCK!


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## onebadapple (May 25, 2002)

Whoa damn yankee let me guess your just rooting for your fellow newyorker well golly geez why don't yawl suck up a couple sodas and let bowtech toot there product....double d why i would hope they wouldn't edit your post cause it took less than nine minutes...but dosen't it make for fun reading anyways..
bowtech_shooter promote your product good luck with the rebate never mind these "spotties".....hehe
OBA


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## HuntingBry (Oct 15, 2002)

Wow, offer a rebate and start a fight. I'm not a big fan of rebates, but I don't think BowTech is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes with theirs. It's simple, they have 2002's that they want to move out the door so they can sell their 2003's. So they rebate the 2002's. Personally, I wouldn't let $50 deter me from waiting for a new bow, but to others it may be an appealing deal. 

It's nice to see some other familiar names here. Hey Jeff, Sag, BTS, Bull, Walks. Frank's bouncing around somewhere on here too.


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## Oregon Shooter (Jul 30, 2002)

man isnt this thread dead yet? its like beating a dead horse...please someone delete this thing


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## BK2_SHOOTER (Oct 23, 2002)

look


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## damnyankee (Oct 4, 2002)

*wow!*

Looks like something out of a Ninja movie.

Fancy.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2002)

*Hey Jimmy Despart.....*

....I don't know you very well...not sure I even want to know you any better......but I now feel that I know what your all about....

....nice reply

....I guess you are the "golden child" of the Administrators...therefore no need to appologize for "your" poor behavior.....

....go ahead and blast me brother.....I am nothing but a dirt bag Farmer....and we all know what you think of us(I guess you get your food from the "store").....shoot dude....why insinuate that people who wear Farmer jeans "look" poor and pathetic???.....just come right out and say....FARMERS LOOK LIKE BUMS

.....BOWTECH....keep up the great job.....you are gathering more shooters from "other" companies with your products and policies....heck, maybe this time next year BOWTECH will have their own site and can say anything they wish......or you can just post your info over at www.archerysite.net .....all companies are welcome there!!

....BOWTECH ROCKS....while Jimmy knocks..

DonDeere was heere.......ban me, delete the post, whatever....I learned a long time ago that life is tough....and I wear a helmet...


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*rebates*

I like your positive statements.........Jim mentioned no ones names neither did I!!!!!!!!!! Business is business and how you make money is up to the company.........let it fall where it may!!!!!
I do not like rebates.............maybe you do .........I do not criticise you by your opinion or by your name....We have 2 different views........and to take cheap shots is not my style........maybe others like to..so be it..........but I can listen to your opinion.....and you can listen to mine.........does not mean you are bad or good.....neither is Jim or myself.......we just happen to have a different opinion on rebates.......does not invalidate you or your opinion............just stating our views........last time I checked that is what our country and nation fights for the right to do!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2002)

JDES900X said:


> *Big deal! I was wondering how long it woudl take for some archery company starving for business to use the "rebate scam". Gee... "Let's charge a couple hundred bucks more than our whatchamagitzit is worth, then we'll rebate $50.00 and every sucker will think they're getting a deal." I hate rebates- in fact I abhor them. Companies who issue rebates are figuring that half of the slobs that get fooled into buying their stuff are too lazy to fill out the rebate form anyway, or they will be out of business before you realize that you never got paid. I can hear it now" If you purchase this new Honda before yesterday for only $90,000., we'll throw in a free motivational cassette tape and a $1,000.00 cash back bonus!!! So wadya say.... *


TOXO...are you talking to me??....if so....you are correct....it's all good....and the words we choose to show our opinions are what we ALL are made of...they come from the little grey cells of the individual's mind....and are a window to the soul......and the above "quote" is from the very first post Jim Despart put up a mere "6" mintues after Bowtech announced their rebate program for their "customers" in the MANUFACTURER section of this non-partisan site!!....

I only make reference to Jim Despart because he is a PROFESSIONAL archer and works for Martin Archery...and as such would have thought that he would not have replied in such a "negative" manner to a company that is trying to get their product in the hands of the CONSUMER for a little less money...after all....it's business right...however, whenever, whatever....make a PROFIT or your out, Right TOXO!!......and i wonder how he might have handled a post where Martin announced their rebate program???....he may have possibly lost his job for those same comments(opinions)...what do you think TOXO??

didn't mention anyones names??....why would anyone who had their bead "dead on" the target need to mention anything....you can't see that his post was "aimed" directly between Bowtechs eyes...it's pretty plain for this ol farm boy to see....you guys don't....humm.....who's trying to pull the wool over who's eyes here??

you say I am criticizing and taking cheap shots....your right....I want Jim to taste some of his own medicine....I hope he does not like the taste of it and hopefully DR DEERE will not need to supply any more of it!!.....but just in case...I have a pretty good supply on hand....Dr. DEERE's "old time elixer"....it's good for what ailes ya'

I have met Jim Despart and find him to be congenial, jovial, helpful, all around GOOD guy and a damn good shooter too!!....given the chance to re-post first to this topic.....I would like to think that he may have chosen a different path to show his frustration with "rebates" and not a "company" for offering them.....but I could be wrong about this(would be the first time ever!!)

you see the caliber of Bowtech....they just let it go as if nothing had happened, turning the other cheek.....I on the other hand chose differently.....I chose to stand up to the angry words...."some archery company starving for business".....this was a DIRECT SLAM TO BOWTECH for offering their rebate.....

You don't see it this way TOXO and that is okay by me....after all my words are mine and no one elses and they come from my interpretation, not yours.....you have given your view TOXO and this is the view from my stake....

you are also correct when you say that it's what our nation has fought for....and I value opinions and comments more than most....for I feel it lets us see people for who they really are!!

Good luck with your Business and it's profits TOXO....

LET FREEDOM RING

DonDeere M.D.  .

P.S..... any of you can e-mail me at [email protected] if you have something to say to me that you do not feel appropriate for this public message system....I check it once a day ...or try to...


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*Famous quotes*

" For what come out of the heart the mouth speaketh" "Some archery Company" while might be a slam or could be a view that SOME ARchery company MIGHT DO IT........and I beleive {not knowing who) that company might be.......would you be offended if he said implied PSE?.........But I hear hate and discontent............when he said above "I still hate rebates." Then he referred to no companies........and in the first post he also said FROM ANY COMPANIES!!!!!!! Why do take this personally......why did you not take it personally about the car companies.......there is a reason............and I think it much deeper then you want to admit.......as the mouth speaketh!!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2002)

*Hey TOXO....*

....I see where you have been a "writer" for 25 years....interesting...

....I have been reading AND writing for longer than that....

...but you know what TOXO we just have different views I guess from READING THE SAME WORDS....no big deal....life goes on...

...maybe we should have a POLL to see where everyone comes down on this issue??.....who's Right and who's Wrong....might be interesting as well!!....

....later dudes

DonDeere

Non Dimenticar(right Toxo)


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

and here is how you play that on a harmonica  

7 -8 8 7 -8 -7 
Non dinenticar means 

-6 -7 7 -6 -7 6 -6 6
don't forget you are my darling.

-5 -6 7 8 -8 
Don't forget to be 

-5 6 -6 -7 6
all you meant to me.

7 -8 8 7 -8 -7 -6 
Non dimenticar, my love 

-7 7 -6 -7 6 -6 6
is like a star, my darling,

-5 -6 7 8 -8 -5 6 -7 -8 7
Shining bright and clear just because you're here.

7 -7 7 7 -8 6 -5 6 -6 -7
Please do not forget that our lips have met

7 -8 8 7 -8 -6
And I've held you tight dear.

7 -8 8 7 -8 -7 -6 -7 7 -6 -7 6 -6 6
Non dimenticar, although you travel far, my darling,

-5 -6 7 8 -8 8 -8 7 -6 -8
It's my heart you own, so I'll wait alone. 

8 -8 -6 -7 7
Non dimenticar.

(This was a Nat "King" Cole hit.)


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## AZPRO (Jul 25, 2002)

*Nat Cole?!!!!!*

I am still a Skynyrd Fan

SWEEEEEET HOME Alabama
dooda loot dooda looda looo

Or George Jones
He Stopped loving herrrrr today


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2002)

*GRIV....*

...Dean Martin's rendition is by far the best!!.....but I've got to tell you....if you can play that on the harmonica....bring that bad boy with you to VEGAS for a JAM session....I don't play an instument....but I LOVE to sing some of those good oldies!! ....

....AZPRO...good choice....if it's old or new, bold or blue....I like it!!...

...others may have a different view...and you know....that's okay by me....but if someone wants to beat up on Deano....I'll bring out the Dr. DEERE "elixer" 

DonDeere.....can read and understand the English language, not just type it


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## bowsmith (Sep 17, 2002)

Teddy Bear-
Gotta agree with the George Jones

I had one that was hotter than a two dollar pistol
She was the fastest thing around
Long and lean every young man's dream
She turned every head in town
She was built in from the handles
Son, I'm glad that you walked in
She reminds me of the one I loved back then

Good Luck and Safe Shootin'.


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*don't get it!!!!*

You just do not get it!!!! It is not about who is right or wrong.....you want a poll......why........do you have to prove something........remember opinions are subjective......no poll either way is going to change my mind........We do not have a poll to decide if Jesus was right.........and if they did I do not think HE would care.....i am not suggesting that I or any one else on this earth is like HIM........but thank GOD.....HE did not send a commitee.....Jesus nor his followers wanted to have a poll on what or where or if they said something.......they all died a terrible death for being what..........UNPOPULAR!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!Do you have that attitiude? I do not know think I could.....But I will stand up for what my opinion is...........and you are right.......what is the difference........but you and I still agree on that. VIVA La difference!!!!!!!


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2002)

*Toxomatic......*

...dude....once again YOU are correct....I DON'T GET IT....

...I am merely a product of public school and therefore do not have the capability to understand "implications" from the text of PROFESSINAL writers or athletes....

...but you know what....thats okay by me....you say Tomatoe I say Tomato...let's call the whole thing off.....

....I have nothing to prove....forget the poll...forget the rebate....forget all this bullsh*t....get on with life....

...everyone that has chosen to read this thread can make up their own mind as to weather or not they think Jim Despart was bashing Bowtech and their rebate policy in his very first post "6" minutes after it showed on this board....

...I am sure that Jim appreciates you sticking up for him and his reply "to" Bowtech about what they are offering their customers...I have no problem with Jim personaly Toxo...I think he is a good dude....to me he is a man like any other and we have had a few laughs in the past and am sure that we will have more in the future....if it was anyone else I would have done the same thing....

...just for the record Toxo....I too am like Jim and dislike rebates...but unlike Jim....I do not have a problem with "some bow company" offering one to their customers....or a automobile company offering one either....hell I don't care if every company out there offers one...after all....isn't it up to us as individuals to decide weather or not we want to participate in the offer??....

..as a writer and board member for many years Toxo...you may be well healed....but the common man may just enjoy paying a little less for something they want....and isn't that a choice they should be allowed to make??....

....VIVA la BowTech Rebate.....

DonDeere....public school flunky

P.S....Toxo...if your going to adapt to the trademark DONDEERE posting style(as many have it appears) with the dot,dot,dot thing....shorten them up a little....yours are too long...

P.S.S...sorry about the edit folks...it's not my style I know....but I made a boo-boo and had to correct it....don't want to look bad in front of PROFESSIONALS you know


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## AZPRO (Jul 25, 2002)

*Bowsmith*

Dude that is one of my top tens, George Jones rocks, another top tenner is Conway twitty, Boy could that man Purrrrrrrrr to the ladies. Bom bom bommmmmm.
Don't leave out David Allen Coe, "the ride" You never even call me by my name" The list goes on and one.


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*Hats off to you*

Dondeere, Thank you...and yes I totally agree that life moves on...and well I will!!!!!!Thank you for the most recent post you made some excellent points and they are well taken.
I am not sticking up for Jim, just happen to agree with him and yours on the last post also.
I am not a professional...wish I was then I could make the big bucks!!!!!! I am a volunteer writer and make a lot of mistakes. Give me a break please? I am French,left handed with a strange last name, can not see out of one eye and blind in the other and also have a mental handicap. Outside of that I am OK, I think? HMMMMMM!!!!


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2002)

*Hey Toxo...hehe...*

...very good sir!!....we are alike in many way's....although I am German, right handed, only have one eye and I am most certainly "mental"....we live to learn another day...and isn't that what it's all about??

..see you in VEGAS Toxo...we will own the "handicapped" parking!! 

..VIVA la posting...

DonDeere was heere


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## toxo (Jun 19, 2002)

*ONE DAY?*

HA.......ONE DAY, NO WAY I DO THE MINUTE THING IF I MAKE ANOTHER MINUTE I PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!! I ALWAYS QUESTION MY SANITY!!!!!!!!


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