# Draw length ATA length



## kentM (Mar 10, 2016)

Is there a correlation between axle length and draw length?
Would a draw length suggest a certain axle length

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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

kentM said:


> Is there a correlation between axle length and draw length?
> Would a draw length suggest a certain axle length
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


Not that simple. Does the bow have long limbs? Does the bow have short limbs? Does the bow have tiny diameter cams? Does the bow have pancake size, HUGE, MASSIVE diameter cams? IT's all about STRING angle at full draw. If you have a 28-inch ATA bow, and you have a 32-inch draw length, then, the string angle at full draw is going to be needle sharp, and the peep may end up 12-inches away from your eyeball. If you have a 40-inch target bow, with TINY diameter cams and REALLY REALLY long limbs, then, if your draw length is 24-inches, then the peep is going to be 4-inches away from your eyeball, cuz of the really REALLY LARGE string angle at full draw.

AS always, just go test drive that 28-inch bow, and see if you can get groups that make you happy. Then, test drive the 30-inch ATA bow, and go test drive that 32-inch ata bow, and while you are there, go test drive the 35-inch ATA bow. See which bow ATA makes you happiest, with group size.


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## kentM (Mar 10, 2016)

Why not just say I dont know

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## ronnielkier (Oct 7, 2012)

kentM said:


> Why not just say I dont know
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


You have no idea how lucky you are to have this guy answer your question . Then you go and say this .

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## kentM (Mar 10, 2016)

But he didnt answer my question he just said go shoot some bows and see what you shoot best.

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## kentM (Mar 10, 2016)

You act like I disrespected him.

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## kentM (Mar 10, 2016)

I'll put it another way. My draw length is 27 1/2".
When I started shooting it was with a 28" ata mission craze. I shot pretty well with it. I think I was on the way to a 300 game shot a 294 with it. That bow was stolen and I "upgraded" to a halon 5 30". I shot it ok but not quite as well as the craze. Further research said longer ata and brace length would be more forgiving. I now shoot a trx7 40" ata. I didn't se much of a change in groups or scores after getting the bow setup and used to it. Never got over 290 and that was a good day. I see the pros who shot the 40 went to the 38 and then the 36 or to other bows. I'm asking the question because I would like a bow that fits well and other than draw length draw weight mass weight does string angle have an impact or do you just adjust the draw length and d-loop to achieve proper prep and string alignment.

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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

kentM said:


> Why not just say I dont know
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


I do know...just explaining why ATA alone does not dictate string angle.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

kentM said:


> I'll put it another way. My draw length is 27 1/2".
> When I started shooting it was with a 28" ata mission craze. I shot pretty well with it. I think I was on the way to a 300 game shot a 294 with it. That bow was stolen and I "upgraded" to a halon 5 30". I shot it ok but not quite as well as the craze. Further research said longer ata and brace length would be more forgiving. I now shoot a trx7 40" ata. I didn't se much of a change in groups or scores after getting the bow setup and used to it. Never got over 290 and that was a good day. I see the pros who shot the 40 went to the 38 and then the 36 or to other bows. I'm asking the question because I would like a bow that fits well and other than draw length draw weight mass weight does string angle have an impact or do you just adjust the draw length and d-loop to achieve proper prep and string alignment.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


Take whatever bow you currently have. If you have more than one bow, then, do this simple test for each and every bow you have. 10 yards. Fire a fletched arrow at a sheet of cardboard, pinned to your shoulder high target. Shoulder high target, will allow you to take a dead level shot (arrow dead level while you are at full draw). Then, put down your bow and pull out the fletched arrow. Label the hole as FLETCHED.
Target is empty now. Just a sheet of cardboard, with ONE hole in it. Now, make a bareshaft. Strip off the vanes completely. Do not leave the base of the vane. Do not add tape on the back end. Really not needed. You are only firing at 10 yards. Fire the bareshaft. TAke a photo.



IF the fletched arrow hole and the bareshaft hole are NOT TOUCHING...then, you have some more bow tuning to do. It ain't the ATA of the bow. It's not the string angle. 



If you shot the Mission Craze the best, go find a mission craze, and see if you can shoot better groups than your current bow. Otherwise, the Halon is a perfectly fine bow. Otherwise, the Trx7 is also a perfectly fine bow. BUT, the only question is, have you tuned the bow to REALLY fit you? Simple test. 10 yards. Do a shooting test, and see if you can punch the fletched arrow hole and the bareshaft holes, touching each other. If you cannot, then there is some work to do, bow tuning wise, and shooter tuning wise.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

kentM said:


> But he didnt answer my question he just said go shoot some bows and see what you shoot best.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


I did answer your question. You did not understand the answer. String angle is controlled by LIMB pocket angle, and the diameter of the cam and the limb length, and the reflex amount of the riser design. So, if we know that YOUR draw length is 27-1/2 inches....we cannot tell you WHAT ATA will work....cuz, we don't know the CAM diameter, we don't know the limb pocket angle, we don't know the reflex amount on the riser design. If we have a STRAIGHT riser, LONG riser design, short limbs and parallel limb tips...then, the cams will be medium large diameter, to get the 27.5-inch DL. The diameter of the cams will control the brace height. BIGGER cam diameter, then, a little more brace and the string angle will be LARGER. This fits the TRX 7 design.



Very little reflex in the riser on the TRX 7. 40" ATA, very short limbs, medium large cams. String angle is gonna be large-ish. String angle might be a little too large for a 27-1/2" DL.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

kentM said:


> But he didnt answer my question he just said go shoot some bows and see what you shoot best.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk




Halon 5 30" ATA bow. Could not be MORE different than the Trx7 40" ATA bow.
Halon 5 has a deeply reflexed riser. Pancake (meaning HUGE) cams. Need the pancake diameter cams, cuz the limbs are soooo short. So, only way you are going to get to 27-1/2 DL, is from large enough diameter cams. Since the ATA is only 30", the string angle is going to be a sharp string angle. The massive diameter cams, helps keep the string angle from being crazy sharp, but not much. String angle on the Halon 5 could not be MORE different than the string angle on the TRX 7.

So, riddle me this. WHICH bow is better for me? Answer. BOTH can be equally good, if setup "correctly" for you. String touching nose, MAY or MAY not happen, on the Halon 5, depending on the shape of your face and the length of your nose. You CAN shoot tight groups, without the string touching your nose. Just have the string cross corner of mouth, and use a kisser button, and even if the string does NOT touch your nose, you MIGHT be able to bust nocks at 30 yards. How do I know? Cuz, I've helped folks do it...many times. But you still have not answered my question. 30" ATA or 40" ATA will get me to that magical 300 score on the NFAA target?

ATA PLUS d-loop length, need to be tweaked, to get your anchor (release hand position), for you to shoot tighter groups than ever before. 
Draw length can be tweaked IN between module sizes, so you can reach that 300 score for the first time. Shooting the DL stock at whatever the module delivers is not good enough tuning. Tune DL between sizes...
IF...you wanna get to the 300 score on the NFAA target, the first time.

d-loop length controls release hand position. Yeah, just worked with a guy (lefty), who wanted to tighten up group sizes. He was getting a nock left, bareshafts were missing to the right of his fletched groups. LEFT handed shooter. Told him to DOUBLE the d-loop length. He was shocked by the results. Bareshafts started missing to the LEFT of the fletched groups. Told him to take his 2X longer d-loop and to undo one d-loop knot. Cut off the melted ball, and fuzz up the end of the d-loop material, to make a new 1/4-inch cotton ball. Melt a new ball, and tie a new d-loop knot. Bottom line, he shortened his 2X long d-loop a little bit at a time, to find the sweet spot for his NEW, longer d-loop. D-loop kept getting shorter by the 1/16th or the 1/8th inch. He found his sweet spot for D-Loop length, and he was flabbergasted with his NEW tighter group size.

So, this is COACHES corner. WE can lead you to water. You have to choose to drink. Do the shooting test, and then, if you want to shoot the tightest groups of your life, with your CURRENT bow...we can guide you step by step.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

kentM said:


> Why not just say I dont know
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


So, let's get to the BOTTOM line. You THINK your DL is 27-1/2. I say, let's test your draw length. 10 yards.



Based on the test results, then, I can tell you what draw length will work BETTER for you to get closer to hitting your first 300 score, on the NFAA target, at 20 yards.
AFter we confirm what draw length actually WORKS for you...THEN, we can talk about straight or reflex risers, tiny cams with LONG target limbs or short, parallel or past parallel bow designs,
and how those riser design choices affects that draw length that REALLY works for you.


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