# Think I finally figured it out ! :( :)



## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

Well, I recently just got back into Compound Archery about 2yrs ago now due to a fluke medical issue I had that had me shooting a crossbow for a year, so after all was healed up went to a local archery shop purchased a bow and wasn't doing to bad " but I know I could shoot better ! ", so with no luck of improving I sold that bow and purchased another "longer ATA" wich I thought would help cause I found myself torqing all the time ! Well that bow didn't work either so tried a handfull of different releases, changed sights, stabalizers, arrows, etc..............
Now, I know I was a decent shot, I am getting older " eye sight could be better " but kept on saying to myself what the HELL is going on here ??? Just not to many years ago I placed 12th place wich where about 300 people shot and I thought that was pretty decent. Figured it was target panic did all the " steps " to try and cure it and nothing..... but I never really had a issue holding my pin on the target. Is it just me ? bow is in tune ! everything is working flawless so what is going on ????
Well, I think I finally figured it out !!!! And should know for sure tomorrow hopefully and I hope this is the issue cause it's all starting to make sense now ! I was at my local Archery Shop last week and me and the owner get talking and then next thing I know I'm shooting bow's and just to have it there was a bow in there similar to mine " same make " that was in for a repair - well, he said this is a new one for 2012 try it out and BAM !!!!!! It felt just like a worn in baseball glove !!!! It was perfect !!!! Well guess what it is a inch shorter DL then what I am currently shooting !!!!!! 
Now, this bow is a solo cam bow while mine is a " hammer cam " style but if this is whats been going on for the last 2yrs and it was all because of a DL issue I'm going to smack myself upside the head !!!! So the story will continue when I get home tomorrow after trying out the new mods " if he has them in stock " or if we have to order them. The only thing that sucks is that my 26.5 DL is now going to be a 25.5 DL !!!! OUCH !!!! Sucks having short arms !!!!
The story will continue....................................................................


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## AJ the TP Guru (Jul 29, 2011)

The shorter draw length will likely be good for the health of your shoulder. Not sure about what it'll mean about target panic as that is a whole other barrell of fish.


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## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

What is your wingspan divided by 2.5?


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## x-hunta (Mar 10, 2010)

rdneckhillbilly said:


> What is your wingspan divided by 2.5?


Thats just ballpark range and I sure he has already gotten in the ballpark. Only way to fine tune is shoot and test it out.


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## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

Well, just got back and DL seems to be correct !!!!! 26.5 !!! What I now think the problem is just that damn bow I test fired ! Felt so darn good in the hand with a really nice hard back wall wich I like and the dual cam I'm shooting right now does not have a draw stop ! So I guess its time to start savin those pennies cause now I want one !


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## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

x-hunta said:


> Thats just ballpark range and I sure he has already gotten in the ballpark. Only way to fine tune is shoot and test it out.


Yes I realize that. Thanks. 
Considering he has had an injury and we are all getting older you'd be surprised how much your draw can change over time.
Furthermore, you'd be surprised how many people have *not* gotten into the ballpark by starting at the beginning. I've seen guys shooting bows with draw lengths way too long because they were sized up at a big box store. 
The best way to confirm the draw length on a bow is to put it on a draw board. You can change the draw length of identical bows by up to 1/2" or more just by twisting the string and untwisting cables. 
I would guess that while the two bows had specs 1" apart they were actually less than that.
What kind of releases did you try Matt? Did you measure the draws with a db or arrow? How old are your strings? How twisted up are they?


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## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

Tried the bow with a hand held release, with regards to the DL it was done with a arrow, Strings are still fairly new and the cables do have a couple of twist in them ! I'm guessing it is all coming down to the draw stop !!!! And I'm thinking or it is feeling more appealing to me. There's just something about that Solid back wall that I'm not getting with my current bow and we also did notice a little flaw in my stance today as'well ! for some reason my upper portion of my body is kicking off to the left ??? Bad form on my end and not sure what started it or if I have always had it and never noticed ???
Thank's for the help guy's...
-Matt


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## Crashman (Jan 20, 2005)

Hey Matt, your current bow being an '08 does not have as nice a back wall as the newer models with the latest dual cams. If you were to upgrade to the M6, you would notice a more solid back wall, and an easier to shoot, more forgiving bow than what you are currently shooting. It does have a 6" brace height, and as such many people would steer away from it saying it is not a forgiving bow. I would argue however, that while the brace height measurement is iportant, it is also equally important to look at in relation to the shooters draw length. With you being a short draw archer, you can get away with a shorter brace height much easier than someone with lets say a 32" draw length. My draw length is 27", I shoot the M7 most of the time, but I also have the M6 and i really like that bow. 

However, this is all for nothing if you really like the single cam. The Viper V7 is a great bow and delivers reasonable speeds for a single cam, but will never equal the Mambas and their dual cams.


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## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

So with regards to say switching to the new cams " wich is $125.00 I do believe " does this not also mean new cable and strings ? " another $100.00 " ? My local dealer is currently shooting the M6 so I might have to give it a try - I tried the sidewinder h2 with the dual cams and it did feel more solid in the back end. Something to consider...... So $225.00 plus taxes to get my 08' set up or bite the bullet and spend $700.00 on a new sidewinder ???? Not sure how this is going to play out yet !


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## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

Now,I really don't want to give up my Mamba considering all the money I put into it in the last year with regards to sending it back to the company and getting the buckskin camo job, strings and cables, and everything else redone to it that wasn't offered in 08 when it was made, and if I were to buy another 1 right now without selling this one at a huge loss my wife would kill me !!!  , just wish there was a easier solution ! 
I wanted a fast bow due to my short DL and this was the one, now that I have tried some of the newer one's even though there hasn't been that much of a change in them they just feel so much more comfortable and seem to fit my shooting style better and I absolutely love the feel of that solid back wall ! What to do What to do ????? This is starting to drive me nuts !!!! 
Back to the shop on tuesday or wednesday and go from there I guess..................


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## Crashman (Jan 20, 2005)

Another option for your current bow is to set it up a little short for you, say 1/4" or so, that way when you hit your anchor position you will actually be pulling hard into the draw stops on the modules and it will "simulate" the feel you are looking for. This is not a perfect solution, but one that will cost a lot less money than buying a new bow. Plus I know a guy on the boards here who makes incredible strings and cables and it won't cost you $100.


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## Jbooter (Dec 9, 2009)

x-hunta said:


> Thats just ballpark range and I sure he has already gotten in the ballpark. Only way to fine tune is shoot and test it out.


It's a formula that is widely accepted as a typical starting point. Fine tuning after through twisting cables or adjusting draw stops is a given!


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## cath8r (Jan 17, 2003)

I found draw length changes over the years, especially when you change bows with different designs and overall lengths. I found 'for me' when the overall bow length goes down, my dl gets longer and vice versa. Different grip shapes can play a minor role too I've found. My hunting bows always shrink a tad in dl where indoor bows seem to want to stretch out in dl a bit then outdoor target seems to be somewhere in between in the dl department. Sometimes loop length can make the differnce to in how a bow fits but getting the actuall draw length dialed in perfect is no better feeling. Congrats! I think some people never make the connection that you found on your own.


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## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

Well, time to close the thread I think - purchased a new Alien X tonight and it feels great ! Funny thing is 08 Mamba 353fps, Alien x 330fps but both at 60lbs with a 300grn arrow and 1 inch shorter DL on the Alien and getting the same speed through the chronograph = 300fps ?????? Smoother draw, nice solid wall, shorter ATA, all DL adjustments on the cam, and cheaper by about $350.00 = I'm pretty happy ! Think it's going to be a sweet little huntin rig ! Still not happy about the 3 piece riser but I guess thats what warranty is for ! Hopefully I won't ever have to use it !!!
-Matt


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## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

And YES my DL on the X is 25.5


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

can always come to my tournament and win the sidewinder by apa as a door prize aug 4th and 5th p and p archery perth...


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

Are you saying you are getting 353 fps and 330 fps with 5 grains per lb at 25.5" draw length? Or is that the factory IBO specs? 






MLabonte said:


> Well, time to close the thread I think - purchased a new Alien X tonight and it feels great ! Funny thing is 08 Mamba 353fps, Alien x 330fps but both at 60lbs with a 300grn arrow and 1 inch shorter DL on the Alien and getting the same speed through the chronograph = 300fps ?????? Smoother draw, nice solid wall, shorter ATA, all DL adjustments on the cam, and cheaper by about $350.00 = I'm pretty happy ! Think it's going to be a sweet little huntin rig ! Still not happy about the 3 piece riser but I guess thats what warranty is for ! Hopefully I won't ever have to use it !!!
> -Matt


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## hoody123 (Aug 11, 2004)

Araz, those are the respective IBO's of the bows


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## MLabonte (Jan 19, 2009)

araz2114 said:


> Are you saying you are getting 353 fps and 330 fps with 5 grains per lb at 25.5" draw length? Or is that the factory IBO specs?


 The APA advertised speed at regular AMO specs were 353fps - 400grn arrow,70lbs,29inch draw. The Alien X was between 330-340 fps, Well my apa was set @ 60lbs and 26.5 DL with a 300grn arrow and I was getting 300fps, now the X was set at 60lbs, 25.5DL with a 300grn arrow and same speed 300fps.
-Matt


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