# Fred Bear and poison arrows?



## BrokenArrows (Apr 20, 2004)

This is new to me. I remember the SCC controversy, I just don't remember Fred Bear being involved in this way, if at all. Doesn't change anything for me about him if it is true, just surprised I wasn't aware of it as I started bowhunting in 1969. Wondering how did I miss that (if I did).

From http://www.africanarcher.com/Poison.html

Should we poison our arrows?

"We all know that the late great Fred Bear was a highly accomplished bowmaker and bowhunter. What is not generally realised, however, is that he was extremely unhappy with the effectiveness of the bow as a hunting weapon, specifically its performance on whitetail deer, the preferred quarry of the North American sportsman. Bear estimated that one animal was severely wounded and lost for every one that was recovered, thus unknowingly echoing the track record of the African Bushmen. As he saw it, that was just not good enough. And the larger the animal, the worse the problems became. Fred Bear shot four bears with his bow, but only recovered one. A gut-shot polar bear drowned. A gut-shot brown bear disappeared. Another brown bear was maimed but got away. These animals weighed heavily on his conscience.
Bear tried to remedy the situation by developing the Bear Razorhead for tipping his arrows. While the results were encouraging, they were not heartening enough. So in the early 1960s he turned to poison, specifically SCC (Succinylcholine chloride or Scoline), a muscle relaxant that in the correct dosage is a very effective tranquilliser. In an overdose, it kills. It comes in the form of a white powder and is placed inside a rubber tube or pod that slips over the arrow just behind the arrowhead. When the arrow strikes home, the rubber is folded back inside the wound, thus exposing the deadly powder to the wound area.
The effects of SCC (depending on dosage and arrow placement) seem to be along the lines that would result from French-kissing a mamba. It kind of takes your breath away, leaving you all choked up, but not for long. Depending on whom you listen to, death is either rapid and painless, or slow and agonising, but it most certainly involves not being able to breathe any more. The effects of the drug wear off rapidly, to the extent that enthusiastic CPR would be an effective antidote in the case of arrow wounds that would have been non-fatal in the absence of poison. It does not appear to make the meat of the victim inedible.
To distance Bear Archery from any political fall-out that could have occurred, Fred Bear used a certain Dr Herrington as a front man for the idea, while publicly suggesting that the archery fraternity keep an open mind on the subject. Even so, the outcry against the concept by the various archery organisations was so extensive that Bear Archery nearly went under as a result of the ensuing boycott. In the end, Fred Bear had to withdraw himself from the discussion in order to save his business. He continued, however, to believe firmly that the use of SCC would make the bow and arrow a better weapon and hence a more ethically supportable hunting tool. His great fear was that if the general public ever found out how ineffective the bow and arrow really was when not used in combination with a potent poison, the ensuing outcry would result in bowhunting being banned altogether."


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I remember the Pod. At the time it seemed like a good idea. With the equipment today, it should not be needed. Every year, I see pictures and articles showing wounded animals running around with arrows sticking out of them. I have personally seen a deer with three arrows in it and it was still running around but would soon die a slow and horrible death. Perfect for anti-hunter groups to use as examples to get rid of archery.
Fred Bear was a big believer in bowhunting education but most states do not require this. He was a very humane hunter who believed that if bowhunters continued to wound animals, that bowhunting would come to an end. He thought that the Pod might be the answer. A wounded animal would lie down and die from any wound just like with a poison dart used by primitive hunters. This would stop the wounding and show bowhunting as a more humane way to hunt. It wasn't a week ago that a bowhunter at the range told me that even though he shot an elk in the neck as he had done with a gun, the elk ran off and was never found. Bowhunting education is important but will never be required in my lifetime because it would lower sales.
I had the privlege to meet Fred Bear and would never say a bad thing about him. He cared about bowhunting and only wanted to make it better.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Every year, I see pictures and articles showing wounded animals running around with arrows sticking out of them. I have personally seen a deer with three arrows in it and it was still running around but would soon die a slow and horrible death.


Please forward me any pictures you have personally taken of a deer "running around" with an arrow sticking out of it. Not saying it doesn't happen - I'm sure it does - but in over 34 years of bowhunting, being heavily involved in the archery sport and industry, and managing archery deer hunts on over 150,000 acres of public bowhunting lands in four states, I've never personally seen a deer "running around" with an arrow sticking out of it. In almost every case of a non-fatal or marginally-fatal hit with an arrow, the animal will either break off the arrow or pull it out with their teeth. That, I have seen. But I've still yet to see a single deer "running around" with an arrow sticking out of it. 

As for ethics and the sport of bowhunting, we are heading into an era of longer and longer shots, and more possibility for wounding, not less. It doesn't help at all when TV personalities regularly talk about taking 45+ yard shots on animals with a bow. That's entirely irresponsible.

John


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## eaglecaps (Nov 4, 2009)

I saw a doe with an arrow stuck laterally through her cheeks. I couldn't believe my eyes. Perfectly centered too. They are amazingly hearty.


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## cwilkykrx (Jun 17, 2021)

My oh my how times have changed. Heres a thought. Practice with you bow till you cant get it wrong. 


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## Gimli's Ghost (Jun 29, 2021)

Old thread resurrected, but falls in line with something I recently read.
My two cents is that poisoned bolts were often used for hunting in Europe and especially in Spain. The poison was derived from the "White Hellebore" plant, in Spain the plant became known as the Crossbowman's plant.
No special provisions were made for delivering the poison, the heads were simply steeped in the concentrated juices.


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