# What’s up with hoyt?



## ETX BOWHUNTER (Jan 4, 2020)

im not sure, but they need to fix it ASAP. must be some in house problems if I were to guess.


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

Dudley worked for Mathews early on.

He had Pete Shepley on his podcast recently too.


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## Bassattackr (Oct 23, 2009)

That is odd, they just lost Chris Bee as well.


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## Z-MAN (Jan 25, 2004)

Sorry, doesn’t do anything for me. Too much emphasis on a handful of so called pro shooters and less on customer input in my opinion over past several years.


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## Ncturkeycaller (Oct 13, 2008)

who cares!!!!! how is a problem with hoyt? if your happy with your job and another competitor offers you more money and you take it does it mean there was something wrong with your original company you work for? NO. Again who cares!!! If you buy a bow because of him or anyone else IDK if you'll ever be happy. Every company loves to get insta-famous shooter to do marketing for them for product. If your not influenced by dudley you can be influenced by Levi and the list goes on......


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## TannaciousZ (Nov 24, 2007)

Wonder where he'll end up at?? He's been a Hoyt guy for a while.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Hoyt is in a mess right now.


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## Boogan1 (Oct 4, 2005)

Since Hoyt is one of the oldest bow companies in existence I seriously doubt losing some "celebrity" shooter is going to have much influence on their bottom line. Those "celebrity" shooter are a dime a dozen, one falls and ten more take their place. I remember when a staff shooter actually did things to help develop and test the new bows and products not just spout whatever opinion they are paid to parrot. I don't know how many I have seen over the years that were "THE" guy for a hot minute only to fade away into obscurity and replaced by the next ten "THE" guys.


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## scpowerman (Sep 19, 2015)

When/how did he announce this?


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## CO shootin (Jul 3, 2016)

Dudley leaves, Bee leaves, Hoyt got rid some of their higher ups as well. Sounds like they are making cuts. 


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at Mathews.


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## full moon64 (Jul 3, 2016)

dnv23 said:


> Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at Mathews.


Maybe Martin..


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

Hoyt probably cut him off for giving out false info on broadhead tuning and CX arrows.


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## nightvision (Aug 30, 2011)

He will be fine and so will Hoyt. MYbe they’ll drop the price of the RX4 by $500.00 LOL


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

PSE


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> Hoyt is in a mess right now.


And that's a very minimalistic statement at that. It's not good in Salt Lake.

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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

whack n stack said:


> And that's a very minimalistic statement at that. It's not good in Salt Lake.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Oh I know.
There is some serious shake ups in Hoyt’s future. Oh course there are plenty on here that just assume I am wrong.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

They have some internal problems in mgt. they fired the general sales mgr. ! There sales numbers are way down ! There’s only so many ways u can keep redesigning a tec riser ! Lol most boring bow made !


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## Anchor Zero Six (Nov 29, 2010)

Rogan will shoot what Cam shoots. 


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## smokecity (Jul 13, 2010)

Funny how all the guys will start coming out saying who cares... “he’s a celebrity shooter”..... Um ya, right.... Dudley is a rare breed. This is a massive step back for Hoyt. 

I have no reason to believe this, other than pure gut. PSE

They will give him freedom. They are sold in just about every store. He wants to reach archers of all tenure. 

I say PSE but it’s a pure guess 


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## NotDylan (May 4, 2014)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> Rogan will shoot what Cam shoots.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hasn't Dudley built all of Joe's bows?

I'd love to see him at PSE.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> Rogan will shoot what Cam shoots.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


100% wrong


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> 100% wrong


I believe the bow rack and Cam have setup most of Joe's bows I would not be surprised if Joe Rogan stays with hoyt and everything else he shoots. Him and Cam are pretty tight. But then again I don't follow any of them closely.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

Dang now I'll have to sell my rx4


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## Anchor Zero Six (Nov 29, 2010)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



sneak1413 said:


> I believe the bow rack and Cam have setup most of Joe's bows I would not be surprised if Joe Rogan stays with hoyt and everything else he shoots. Him and Cam are pretty tight. But then again I don't follow any of them closely.


^^^
This

But yes Dudley has set up bows for celebs incl JR but he got the first one or two from Cam. 

Would guess JR buys his own bows now not like he needs free gear.


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## Deertracker11 (Jun 6, 2008)

Where did you see this?


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## "Own More Bone" (Oct 18, 2002)

Gonna guess PSE as well... Dave Cousins has been on fire with their new bow...


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## tennpin (May 20, 2005)

It's pretty simple they have just about priced themselves out of business .


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## bkwentz (Dec 2, 2019)

Boogan1 said:


> Since Hoyt is one of the oldest bow companies in existence I seriously doubt losing some "celebrity" shooter is going to have much influence on their bottom line. Those "celebrity" shooter are a dime a dozen, one falls and ten more take their place. I remember when a staff shooter actually did things to help develop and test the new bows and products not just spout whatever opinion they are paid to parrot. I don't know how many I have seen over the years that were "THE" guy for a hot minute only to fade away into obscurity and replaced by the next ten "THE" guys.


Lol. 
You seem to have a real disdain for the famous, and that is your right, but to suggest that Dudley isn't a celebrity in the archery world is absurd. I've been on this forum for 2 weeks and I see Dudley mentioned almost every other day. Who else in this sport has that much impact? 

go to google and paste this in the search bar: site: archerytalk.com John Dudley
14k responses. 
If we only search Dudley we get 35k. 

Not here to defend Dudley by any means. But I've noticed in this thread, and the thread on Chris Bee, that people of legitimate celebrity are regularly dismissed by people, who like myself, are not celebrities by any measure. I don't get it at all.


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## HUNTFROMABOVE (Oct 20, 2010)

I haven’t found anything saying that Dudley and Hoyt have parted ways. Do you have a link?


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## bone74 (Aug 15, 2010)

https://www.podbean.com/eu/pb-6ejqw-cdd6bd

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## BBD51 (Sep 20, 2018)

He will go to Mathews and right back to Hoyt I bet


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> Oh I know.
> There is some serious shake ups in Hoyt’s future. Oh course there are plenty on here that just assume I am wrong.


Well, you're not wrong. 

I love Hoyt bows, but don't blindly (because of my love for Hoyt) think there's nothing wrong.

I personally know some who they have let go. I also know that those fired were laid blame on for no fault of their own. 

They (Hoyt) are in a very tough spot. I fully believe they're making a bunch of "knee jerk" reactions. No one wants to take blame, especially if you can just lay it at others feet.

Time will tell if it works out for them. I think they need to focus on what sells best. I think they need to focus on their product and consumer.

All this said, most, if not all the big bow mfg's are hurting. It's all happening weather any of us like it or not.

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## Boogan1 (Oct 4, 2005)

bkwentz said:


> Lol.
> You seem to have a real disdain for the famous, and that is your right, but to suggest that Dudley isn't a celebrity in the archery world is absurd. I've been on this forum for 2 weeks and I see Dudley mentioned almost every other day. Who else in this sport has that much impact?
> 
> go to google and paste this in the search bar: site: archerytalk.com John Dudley
> ...


I don't have any disdain at all for the famous, glad they can make a living doing something they love. My disdain was in the comment that Hoyt was in trouble because some guy decided to go shoot some other brand of bow. Here is a little secret, once someone has mastered the sport of archery the way these pro shooters have, they can pick up just about any bow or equipment and shoot it well. At the end of the day there really isn't that much difference between a Hoyt, Matthews, PSE or whatever. Anyone who is a Pro level shooter can shoot them all equally well. I have been around the archery game for a long time, over 40 years, and can't count the number of times some of these guys have switched brands and it is always because someone offered them a better deal, not because there was something wrong with what they were shooting. These guys, Dudley, Bee, Rogan whoever are parlaying their talent into a career. Just like an NFL quarterback or a baseball pitcher, they are going to play for whoever pays them the most. Doesn't mean the team they left is going to crumble without them, someone will be along to take their place, always.


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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

Ive shot Hoyt for years now. In the past, Id buy the current bow, keep the prior year as backup and sell the previous prior year. I havent bought a new Hoyt since the RX-1. I like my Carbon Defiant probably as much as any bow Ive ever shot. The RX-1 Turbo, is damn close. But I shot the RX-3, and didnt think it was much better for the price. Today I shot the RX-4, and I still didnt think it was better than either of the ones I have (considering the cost as well). I have been debating on switching to Prime, because I liked the CT3, but I dont like the new Prime bows. Im not sure if Ill even get a new bow or what brand I will shoot next year. I have zero complaints about my Carbon Defiant or RX1 Turbo, so logic says just keep rolling with what works.

I honestly trust Dudleys opinion. Last year, he wasnt wild about the RX-3. He shot Helix most of the year. This year the RX-4 comes out and he bolts. He is the only archery guy I trust. I will pay attention to where he is going and the input he has on those bows.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

RK4 said:


> I honestly trust Dudleys opinion. Last year, he wasnt wild about the RX-3. He shot Helix most of the year. This year the RX-4 comes out and he bolts. He is the only archery guy I trust. I will pay attention to where he is going and the input he has on those bows.


Definitely not the best time to leave if one is solely basing it off of bow alone. Hoyt’s best year to date IMO. 





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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

ontarget7 said:


> Definitely not the best time to leave if one is solely basing it off of bow alone. Hoyt’s best year to date IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I shot the RX4 today, I just didnt like it enough to toss my CD or RX1 Turbo. Next week the shop will have a RX4 turbo, the ATA is more in line with what I like, so maybe Ill walk out with that one. We will see. Im so used to working on my Hoyts that I do hope I like the RX4 Turbo.


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## NotDylan (May 4, 2014)

ontarget7 said:


> Definitely not the best time to leave if one is solely basing it off of bow alone. Hoyt’s best year to date IMO.


The same could be said for PSE. By most accounts they have the best carbon bow this year and their aluminum bows are said to be fantastic as well.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

NotDylan said:


> The same could be said for PSE. By most accounts they have the best carbon bow this year and their aluminum bows are said to be fantastic as well.


Probably because the Aluminums have the older large Hoyt grip style now 
Now they just need to slim it down and incorporate it into the carbons. 

Jury is still out on the Carbons since they can’t seem to produce them with any decent time frames. 

The Evolve cam system is excellent but I prefer the pin float on the current Hoyt’s more. 






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## TX_Diver (Mar 18, 2019)

Crap!!! I just bought a new RX-3 Ultra today! Don't think Dudley leaving would've changed that purchase though. I liked the bows last year but couldn't justify full price. Shop a few towns up had one left and was looking to move it.

Dudley is the only pro I really "follow". His school of nock series has been a huge help to me and seriously improved my shooting/understanding of archery, especially as I don't have a good shop nearby anymore. I still have a long ways to go but it definitely helped me realize some things that I was doing wrong/had been taught wrong.

Hopefully he goes to Prime so I can get some good videos of how to tune my CT5 also!

I'm sure John Dudley and Hoyt will be fine, and my bow will still shoot fine too. I just hope I don't have to use Hoyt customer service ever haha.


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

I have heard rumblings of Dudley to PSE for about a month now. I went out and shot all the major flagship bows (VXR 31.5, Mach 1, NXT 33, Prime Black 5, and RX4 Ultra). I bought the RX4 Ultra because the draw cycle, string angle and hold of the bow just fit me best. I am a little bummed I won't be able to see Dud's tuning videos so strictly applied to my particular bow but it doesn't change my mind about the decision I made. Sounds like Dudley wanted to show more and do more with other brands and Hoyt wasn't having it where whoever his new company (PSE more than likely) was willing to give him more of the freedom he desired


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## pnw-bowhunter (Dec 25, 2019)

Keep in mind that when a sponsored archer leaves a company, it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with a drop in quality of the bows. 

It could just be that Mathews or PSE or Martin gave him a far better offer than Hoyt was willing to match. 

This isnt a death knell for Hoyt, its just business.

I say that as a guy who shoots both Hoyt and Mathews. 


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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

eilermmt said:


> I have heard rumblings of Dudley to PSE for about a month now. I went out and shot all the major flagship bows (VXR 31.5, Mach 1, NXT 33, Prime Black 5, and RX4 Ultra). I bought the RX4 Ultra because the draw cycle, string angle and hold of the bow just fit me best. I am a little bummed I won't be able to see Dud's tuning videos so strictly applied to my particular bow but it doesn't change my mind about the decision I made. Sounds like Dudley wanted to show more and do more with other brands and Hoyt wasn't having it where whoever his new company (PSE more than likely) was willing to give him more of the freedom he desired


Having Pete Shepley on his podcast at that time in the process is telling. My bets on PSE as well.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

Hoyt is absolutely killing it....

...in the worst bow of the decade thread. 


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

Ar56903 said:


> Dudley just announced he is leaving Hoyt. Which means, more likely than not, all of Dudleys friends will probably start shooting whatever bow he does. That means Hoyt just lost Joe Rogan and all of his friends.
> 
> *From a marketing standpoint, I can imagine this being potentially devastating to a brand. *I know these individuals are YouTube / podcast celebrities, but you can’t deny that they reach a huge market.
> 
> ...


Nope. Levi left Mathews, went to Elite then back to Mathews. Everyone is still doing fine.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Boogan1 said:


> I don't have any disdain at all for the famous, glad they can make a living doing something they love. My disdain was in the comment that Hoyt was in trouble because some guy decided to go shoot some other brand of bow. Here is a little secret, once someone has mastered the sport of archery the way these pro shooters have, they can pick up just about any bow or equipment and shoot it well. At the end of the day there really isn't that much difference between a Hoyt, Matthews, PSE or whatever. Anyone who is a Pro level shooter can shoot them all equally well. I have been around the archery game for a long time, over 40 years, and can't count the number of times some of these guys have switched brands and it is always because someone offered them a better deal, not because there was something wrong with what they were shooting. These guys, Dudley, Bee, Rogan whoever are parlaying their talent into a career. Just like an NFL quarterback or a baseball pitcher, they are going to play for whoever pays them the most. Doesn't mean the team they left is going to crumble without them, someone will be along to take their place, always.


A pro level shooter can be replaced, but this is about bow sales. John influences the sales of a LOT more bows, releases, arrows and accessories then any other pro level shooter on a field staff and it’s not even close. You can bet good money that bow and accessories companies know this as well as Hoyt top management.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Guess I better sell my Axius Ultras! I’ve met John multiple times, he is a genuine guy. I’ve been listening to the podcast. He honestly sounds like he just wants more freedom. He is not just a pro shooter, he is a teacher, a coach, mentor, etc.. I would put money on it that these comments “Hoyts in trouble” “Hoyt makes bad products” is absolute hog wash. Sometimes you just need a change, apparently when he switched from Mathews to Hoyt years ago it was the better change for him. Now it sounds like the change from Hoyt to whoever is the best change for him now. 

I hate to say this and I say this as if we are all buddies speaking over a camp fire. Some of you guys are looking into this way too deep or basing it on some serious loose conjectures. Main thing is Hoyt is not in trouble. Seriously guys? Guys change contracts and move around all the dang time, some long time contracts some short. Don’t look too deep into this,Randy Walk and Hoyt are doing just fine. 

Good luck to Chris Bee on making the switch to Mathews, good luck to Dave Cousins switching to PSE....and good look to John Dudley where ever he goes. Doesn’t make PSE any better than Prime for Cousins leaving nor Hoyt any worse for Chris Bee or Dudley leaving Hoyt. Seriously guys, be happy for them, make your archery investments by your own accord and take what you hear and see in any industry with a grain of salt. No need to sell all your Brand X bows for Brand Y bows due to a few guys that can shoot better than most of us making a personal switch on their own accord. 


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

According to his podcast, he has known for the past few months that he wasn't going to renew his contract with Hoyt, not that Hoyt didn't want to sign him, quite the opposite, they tried to get him to stay. I guess he wants freedom to shoot and review other brands, maybe even help design a line or model of bow. I echo the statement about him going to PSE, his podcast with Pete Shepley in Sept was quite a telling podcast, you could here the admiration they both had for each other in that episode.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

iceman14 said:


> Hoyt is absolutely killing it....
> 
> ...in the worst bow of the decade thread.
> 
> ...


LOL, I'd agree the rx1 and rx3 were the worst hoyt since 2010


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

4IDARCHER said:


> A pro level shooter can be replaced, but this is about bow sales. John influences the sales of a LOT more bows, releases, arrows and accessories then any other pro level shooter on a field staff and it’s not even close. You can bet good money that bow and accessories companies know this as well as Hoyt top management.


Most the savvy guys I know get more form tip info from Dudley vs bow tech info per say. 

Then most the ones I know that follow and get the info shoot all kinds of different bows to be honest. 

I’m not quite sure it will be as big of an impact to Hoyt as you think, in regards to overall sales. 


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Smoothy750 said:


> According to his podcast, he has known for the past few months that he wasn't going to renew his contract with Hoyt, not that Hoyt didn't want to sign him, quite the opposite, they tried to get him to stay. I guess he wants freedom to shoot and review other brands, maybe even help design a line or model of bow. I echo the statement about him going to PSE, his podcast with Pete Shepley in Sept was quite a telling podcast, you could here the admiration they both had for each other in that episode.


Id agree, as a former PSE dealer, I was having it out with my business partner on what brands to have. I swore I didn’t want PSE, boy did I eat my words. That brand whole heartedly impressed me. Quality, materials, tuning, technology, designs and most importantly dealer and customer service experience. They really made it known they wanted to work with us and help us flourish. It disappoints me the level of sheer insults and trash talk people have for PSE still. Makes me realize how many people in the archery industry that are still “stuck” on what a brand was years ago instead of now. The two brands that have redeemed themselves ten fold are PSE and Bowtech. Both brands still get a lot of hate for no reason that exists now. 

But yes I would bet money it’s PSE, which would be incredibley exciting! 


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

ontarget7 said:


> Most the savvy guys I know get more form tip info from Dudley vs bow tech info per say.
> 
> Then most the ones I know that follow and get the info shoot all kinds of different bows to be honest.
> 
> ...


Spot on! 


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

bowtech2006 said:


> LOL, I'd agree the rx1 and rx3 were the worst hoyt since 2010


I had a pair of aluminum spyder 30’s back in the day, and once I pulled the grips off they weren’t bad. Pretty average at everything. Haven’t had an urge for any Hoyt’s made since then. Overrated in my opinion. 

I’m actually glad Dud is gone whether by his choice or theirs. I’m not a huge fan but he does have a large cult buying anything that makes them part of nock on nation. From a ROI point of view he had to have been huge for Hoyt. 


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## tnarb (Aug 26, 2006)

full moon64 said:


> Maybe Martin..


You got to be joking....


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## swgabh (Dec 25, 2019)

In my uneducated opinion I find parts of this thread almost funny. I know that I am very, very new to archery but every time I ask about should I get bow X, Y, or Z at least one person always says, "Shoot as many different bows as you can. Then get the one that feels the best to you". Or something real close to that. 

So what I find almost funny and perplexing is this; if one of the large parts of archery is find a bow that "feels" right to you then what does it really matter if Mr/Mrs/Ms shoots bow Y when I didn't like the feel of bow Y, and bow Z felt great to me? I mean did everyone really run out and buy a Lincoln just because Matthew McConaughey said to?

Are am I overly simplifying a complex situation?


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## Ruben 1969 (Feb 10, 2017)

Pete Shepley did admit he finally realized it all comes down to marketing.


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## MELLY-MEL (Dec 22, 2008)

Hoyts been around a long time. Im sure they will be fine. Nothing ever stays the same, and many times change is needed and welcome.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

swgabh said:


> In my uneducated opinion I find parts of this thread almost funny. I know that I am very, very new to archery but every time I ask about should I get bow X, Y, or Z at least one person always says, "Shoot as many different bows as you can. Then get the one that feels the best to you". Or something real close to that.
> 
> So what I find almost funny and perplexing is this; if one of the large parts of archery is find a bow that "feels" right to you then what does it really matter if Mr/Mrs/Ms shoots bow Y when I didn't like the feel of bow Y, and bow Z felt great to me? I mean did everyone really run out and buy a Cadillac just because Matthew McConaughey said to?
> 
> Are am I overly simplifying a complex situation?


Having already learned that early on, your way a head of most. Just keep it simple, believe me come next week when he announces who he is going with I assure you a ton of cult like followers will buy that Brand Z’s bows, even if they cant shoot them that well. I’ve met the guy a few times, he isn’t the type to “get off” on people buying stuff just cause he does. He could honestly care less, he just wants to see archers evolve into better shooters, hunters and stewards of our sport and hunting. Cheers for already learning that!! 


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## TannaciousZ (Nov 24, 2007)

swgabh said:


> In my uneducated opinion I find parts of this thread almost funny. I know that I am very, very new to archery but every time I ask about should I get bow X, Y, or Z at least one person always says, "Shoot as many different bows as you can. Then get the one that feels the best to you". Or something real close to that.
> 
> So what I find almost funny and perplexing is this; if one of the large parts of archery is find a bow that "feels" right to you then what does it really matter if Mr/Mrs/Ms shoots bow Y when I didn't like the feel of bow Y, and bow Z felt great to me? I mean did everyone really run out and buy a Cadillac just because Matthew McConaughey said to?
> 
> Are am I overly simplifying a complex situation?


McConaughey, Cadillac, ?? Nope, they bought a Lincoln though.........lol


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## Deertracker11 (Jun 6, 2008)

I would think PSE but I don’t think they offer their bows in Sitka camos. Which may not be huge deal if he shoots a neutral color. But who knows his demands from Sitka.


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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

He announced it on his podcast which came out today. 

I wasn’t trying to comment on the quality of Hoyts bows. I love my Hoyt and have no plans on selling it. My point was, from a sales / marketing standpoint, this is potentially a pretty big loss for the brand. He is a big figure for new archers and has a large following. Not to mention his friends have an even bigger reach.


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## Spency (Oct 29, 2009)

There are many, many people like me who dont even know what John Dudley looks or sounds like. I Couldn't tell you a thing about him other than I see his name mentioned on this website once in a while. Imagine this won't be that big of an impact to the company he's leaving or whatever one hes going to.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Ar56903 said:


> He announced it on his podcast which came out today.
> 
> I wasn’t trying to comment on the quality of Hoyts bows. I love my Hoyt and have no plans on selling it. My point was, from a sales / marketing standpoint, this is potentially a pretty big loss for the brand. He is a big figure for new archers and has a large following. Not to mention his friends have an even bigger reach.


True but i can’t help think that they will be just fine in their own account. I mean it’s easy for us state side to forget that Hoyt still has the international market by the balls. I’ve got a buddy who lives in Europe. He says whole country teams shoot nothing but Hoyt. They’ll be fine. I honestly hope this does however push them to tighten up a few areas though that I think they could improve on. Granted each brand has its pros and it’s problems. 


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## montanarancher (Nov 12, 2012)

smokecity said:


> Funny how all the guys will start coming out saying who cares... “he’s a celebrity shooter”..... Um ya, right.... Dudley is a rare breed. This is a massive step back for Hoyt.
> 
> I have no reason to believe this, other than pure gut. PSE
> 
> ...


Or maybe you read Ontarget 7's earlier post


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## gdubbmx (Dec 28, 2018)

Summit3 said:


> swgabh said:
> 
> 
> > In my uneducated opinion I find parts of this thread almost funny. I know that I am very, very new to archery but every time I ask about should I get bow X, Y, or Z at least one person always says, "Shoot as many different bows as you can. Then get the one that feels the best to you". Or something real close to that.
> ...


And then they'll sell them here CHEAP!!! I fail to see the issue!!! 

On the topic, I LOVE my carbon defiant 34. I also love my diamond infinite edge. I'm planning on buying an xpedition this year, used from the classifieds of course. Why? Because I like trying different bows.

I like Dud and have alot ot respect for what he does. Helped me a bunch with the school of nock series. Will I buy a certain bow brand because he does? Nope. I'll continue to switch things up because it keeps archery enjoyable for me. Just my 2 cents.....


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## swgabh (Dec 25, 2019)

TannaciousZ said:


> McConaughey, Cadillac, ?? Nope, they bought a Lincoln though.........lol


OPS!!!! lol.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

scpowerman said:


> When/how did he announce this?


Instagram 


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> Rogan will shoot what Cam shoots.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, Dudley builds all of Rogans bows.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

sneak1413 said:


> I believe the bow rack and Cam have setup most of Joe's bows I would not be surprised if Joe Rogan stays with hoyt and everything else he shoots. Him and Cam are pretty tight. But then again I don't follow any of them closely.


Cam only helped Rogan with his first bow. Dudley built all the rest.



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## primal 45 (Jan 4, 2020)

i heard the vp also left hoyt?


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

primal 45 said:


> i heard the vp also left hoyt?


Hmm have not heard that, we did get a new Rep group for Hoyt though. 


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## JMATZ144 (Dec 19, 2018)

The thing about not everybody knowing who dudley is i completely understand however the group of people that does know is very much made up of new shooters. What are new shooters first going to look at when they go to buy a new bow? The brand that the guy who is teaching them all this new info. Just my opinion but im not sure how much of that audience is buying brand new bows


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## MtnOak (Feb 7, 2016)

Boogan1 said:


> Since Hoyt is one of the oldest bow companies in existence I seriously doubt losing some "celebrity" shooter is going to have much influence on their bottom line. Those "celebrity" shooter are a dime a dozen, one falls and ten more take their place. I remember when a staff shooter actually did things to help develop and test the new bows and products not just spout whatever opinion they are paid to parrot. I don't know how many I have seen over the years that were "THE" guy for a hot minute only to fade away into obscurity and replaced by the next ten "THE" guys.


^^^^This^^^^ well said, couldn’t agree more.


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

Spency said:


> There are many, many people like me who dont even know what John Dudley looks or sounds like. I Couldn't tell you a thing about him other than I see his name mentioned on this website once in a while. Imagine this won't be that big of an impact to the company he's leaving or whatever one hes going to.


So this is the main thing wrong with almost every person in the world....they have lost touch with something they once considered themselves knowledgeable in and have been left behind. Dudley is the most recognizable archery celebrity there is. Levi and cam are well known to archers, Dudley is well know to everyone r who listens to the Joe Rogan podcast. I could stand in an elevator with the the last ten winners of vegas and I wouldn’t have a clue.


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## wildernessninja (Aug 9, 2013)

Didn’t get to his podcast yet. If i had to guess i would say pse to. I’m sure hoyt willbe fine.


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

This works out perfectly for me. Would love to trade my old PSE hunting rig for a Hoyt target bow... since Hoyt is OBVIOUSLY going out of business and all, trades welcome! :darkbeer:


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## automan26 (Oct 21, 2002)

An average guy walks into a Hoyt shop and says he wants to start shooting more and maybe even shoot winter league. He looks at a few new Hoyts and one in particular catches his eye. The shop owner says, "That's what Dudley shoots." The guy says, Who's Dudly? I'll buy this one." That's how much influence big name shooters have on 98% of all sales.

Automan


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

automan26 said:


> An average guy walks into a Hoyt shop and says he wants to start shooting more and maybe even shoot winter league. He looks at a few new Hoyts and one in particular catches his eye. The shop owner says, "That's what Dudley shoots." The guy says, Who's Dudly? I'll buy this one." That's how much influence big name shooters have on 98% of all sales.
> 
> Automan


This is ignorant.


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## TheBozz (Aug 30, 2018)

People that are saying this is nothing are being disingenuous or are totally out of touch with social media and marketing. His podcast gets good numbers. His post on IG got 3K likes as of this moment. He gets double the numbers of Levi Morgan. Episodes of JRE get millions of downloads and hundreds of thousands of views. 

If you think that that reach means nothing you're just wrong.


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## TheBozz (Aug 30, 2018)

automan26 said:


> An average guy walks into a Hoyt shop and says he wants to start shooting more and maybe even shoot winter league. He looks at a few new Hoyts and one in particular catches his eye. The shop owner says, "That's what Dudley shoots." The guy says, Who's Dudly? I'll buy this one." That's how much influence big name shooters have on 98% of all sales.
> 
> Automan




ok boomer


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## hoyt fo life555 (Jan 31, 2005)

automan26 said:


> An average guy walks into a Hoyt shop and says he wants to start shooting more and maybe even shoot winter league. He looks at a few new Hoyts and one in particular catches his eye. The shop owner says, "That's what Dudley shoots." The guy says, Who's Dudly? I'll buy this one." That's how much influence big name shooters have on 98% of all sales.
> 
> Automan


Or it could go, guys says who’s Dudley, knowing he’s going to be considered a “ sheep” ( follower) if he acknowledges he indeed knows of the guy and thats exactly why he went into the shop to buy that exact bow but don’t want that title. And he don’t want to admit that someone else made up his mind for him. Lol Never know.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

TheBozz said:


> ok boomer


Really dude? Boomer? Are we 12? 


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## GutxPile (Dec 15, 2013)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



automan26 said:


> An average guy walks into a Hoyt shop and says he wants to start shooting more and maybe even shoot winter league. He looks at a few new Hoyts and one in particular catches his eye. The shop owner says, "That's what Dudley shoots." The guy says, Who's Dudly? I'll buy this one." That's how much influence big name shooters have on 98% of all sales.
> 
> Automan


As someone who works at one of the biggest archery shops in my state, I can whole heartedly say that is not the case. If I had a dollar for every Nock 2 It, SilverBack I saw in the shop and Nock ON AAE Vane I’ve reflectched an arrow with, I would be loaded. The guy does drive sales for Hoyt, Carter and Easton arrows. A lot of people
Know who he is. It’s mostly folks 40 and under.


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## gdubbmx (Dec 28, 2018)

TheBozz said:


> automan26 said:
> 
> 
> > An average guy walks into a Hoyt shop and says he wants to start shooting more and maybe even shoot winter league. He looks at a few new Hoyts and one in particular catches his eye. The shop owner says, "That's what Dudley shoots." The guy says, Who's Dudly? I'll buy this one." That's how much influence big name shooters have on 98% of all sales.
> ...


The insults are really unnecessary.


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## Jonathan3220 (Jan 27, 2013)

I would love to see Dudley go to Bowtech but PSE makes sense after his talk with Pete. Who knows maybe he will give up all Bow Sponsorships and just shoot what he feels
Like that would make things interesting. 


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

automan26 said:


> An average guy walks into a Hoyt shop and says he wants to start shooting more and maybe even shoot winter league. He looks at a few new Hoyts and one in particular catches his eye. The shop owner says, "That's what Dudley shoots." The guy says, Who's Dudly? I'll buy this one." That's how much influence big name shooters have on 98% of all sales.
> 
> Automan


He’s all over YouTube with tech tips and hunting videos with hundreds of thousands of views. It helps tremendously with influencing sales. 

Picture a guy who is starting out and doesn’t really shoot well, then goes online and sees Dudley coaching rogan and stumpf to be great archers in no time and shooting Hoyt, Easton, carter products. 

Look at the nock on series of release. They sell out in hours on Dudleys site and don’t last a day here on the classifieds. It’s the only item I’ve sold here that was i was firm on the price and sold it in an hour of posting. 



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## bowhntnmaniac (Jan 5, 2020)

dnv23 said:


> Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at Mathews.


I agree with you


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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

It’s very funny watching these conversations devolve..haha

I don’t think hoyt is going out of business. I don’t think you should just shoot whatever bow Dudley does. Yes, social media marketing is a big deal. It is 2020...


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## bowhntnmaniac (Jan 5, 2020)

vmals said:


> He’s all over YouTube with tech tips and hunting videos with hundreds of thousands of views. It helps tremendously with influencing sales.
> 
> Picture a guy who is starting out and doesn’t really shoot well, then goes online and sees Dudley coaching rogan and stumpf to be great archers in no time and shooting Hoyt, Easton, carter products.
> 
> ...


His releases are great. I still shoot a wrist strap release, but I was using my bro-in-laws the other day, and it was really nice!


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

TheBozz said:


> People that are saying this is nothing are being disingenuous or are totally out of touch with social media and marketing. His podcast gets good numbers. His post on IG got 3K likes as of this moment. He gets double the numbers of Levi Morgan. Episodes of JRE get millions of downloads and hundreds of thousands of views.
> 
> If you think that that reach means nothing you're just wrong.


Followers is one thing. Turning those followers into purchases is another. 
I feel social media can be way misleading. Most guys that have money to spend are working hard at it and don’t have time for all that stuff. 
You would be very surprised since most the followers can’t afford the product being pushed. 


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## NotDylan (May 4, 2014)

Ar56903 said:


> It’s very funny watching these conversations devolve..haha
> 
> I don’t think hoyt is going out of business. I don’t think you should just shoot whatever bow Dudley does. Yes, social media marketing is a big deal. It is 2020...


I know, seems every thread on here about a hunter with a large social media following turns into a mess.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

bowhntnmaniac said:


> His releases are great. I still shoot a wrist strap release, but I was using my bro-in-laws the other day, and it was really nice!


I didn’t shoot the nock 2 it well. 

Was getting prefect bareshaft flight with a carter target 3 and terrible nock right with the nock 2 it. Sold it. 


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

ontarget7 said:


> Followers is one thing. Turning those followers into purchases is another.
> I feel social media can be way misleading. Most guys that have money to spend are working hard at it and don’t have time for all that stuff.
> You would be very surprised since most the followers can’t afford the product being pushed.
> 
> ...


I thinks there is a generational gap here. Older generations are completely under estimating the impact of social media. (BTW-Archery talk IS social media).
The products Dudley sells, such as his releases and rest, are not cheap. He doesn’t advertise anywhere other than social media. Who is buying them if not his followers? 


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

tmead said:


> I thinks there is a generational gap here. Older generations are completely under estimating the impact of social media. (BTW-Archery talk IS social media).
> The products Dudley sells, such as his releases and rest, are not cheap. He doesn’t advertise anywhere other than social media. Who is buying them if not his followers?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The number of followers to a certain product bought through social media is actually a really low percentage. 
Don’t get me wrong, you have to do it for presence more than anything. Percentages of product sold to followers is actually quite low. 


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

ontarget7 said:


> Followers is one thing. Turning those followers into purchases is another.
> I feel social media can be way misleading. Most guys that have money to spend are working hard at it and don’t have time for all that stuff.
> You would be very surprised since most the followers can’t afford the product being pushed.
> 
> ...


He sells out his releases in one day by going on Instagram and saying “they’re ready”. That’s the definition of turning followers into purchasers. With that being said, there are 100 archerytalk Hero’s who can’t monetize themselves. He definitely has a skill set that allows ppl to understand the way he explains things. Just look at some of the people on here with 20,000 posts who write paragraph after paragraph and it becomes painful.

Edit: this isn’t aimed at anyone specific, just a general opinion of the value ppl give themselves.


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## Anchor Zero Six (Nov 29, 2010)

tmead said:


> No, Dudley builds all of Rogans bows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Trivial thing to get into a pissing match over but he has a vid posted of him and Cam at the Bow Rack where he says hes sighting in new bow he went there to pick up.

Maybe he sent it back to Dud. BR set up Goggins bow Dud set up Stumpf and Jako’s rigs. 


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

TheBozz said:


> People that are saying this is nothing are being disingenuous or are totally out of touch with social media and marketing. His podcast gets good numbers. His post on IG got 3K likes as of this moment. He gets double the numbers of Levi Morgan. Episodes of JRE get millions of downloads and hundreds of thousands of views.
> 
> If you think that that reach means nothing you're just wrong.


Good post. These Companies do not hire these types of people (John Dudley) for no reason. #1 to promote sales. In this type of business, it is all about Marketing & a 10th of a percent of lost sales is a gain for a Competitor. As the old saying goes, "What goes up must come down." And in this Era dropping sales could be devastating. Especially in the Hunting Industry. Just look at the growing # of crossbow sales. Add in the drop of hunting licenses.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Here is my theory and for the love of god don’t crucify me if you don’t agree. Im just throwing this out there. 

I’m actually very excited this happen. Here is my thinking behind this. As much as I love Hoyt and still have a few Hoyts including a brand new Axius Ultra. I think Hoyt has been able to coast for years now on strong sales numbers due to the series of personalities they have or had in their arsenal. Such as Hanes, Waddel, Dudley, etc... for that reason maybe not having to address some areas they could improve on? 

Not that they make a bad product, I love me a Hoyt bow. However every brand has their pros and the problems. Seems the general conversation pertaining to problems has been extremely consistent each year with Hoyt. Maybe just maybe this will fire up the hunger inside of Hoyt to improve on areas they have been putting on the back burner? Look at Prime this year for example , they don’t have the biggest personalities but this year they put out absolute gold. Why? Because they are hungry and maybe slightly a little more humble than Hoyt. 

It sounds like the product has little to do with Dudleys reason for leaving. I’m just wondering if this will light the fire under Hoyts feet after years of easy operations to possibly sit down and discuss some areas where they could really turn up the heat? 

Just my theory and .2 cents. I could be so far off, just making a comment. Cheers! 


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## 1faith (Dec 8, 2010)

Hoyt's claim to fame and technology is their useless truss riser. Hoyt sticking with that platform makes as much sense as Mathews sticking with only single cams. In the 90's Hoyt was the leader in technology and innovation but were no longer in the 90s but Hoyt still is imo. Dealers in my area sell fewer and fewer Hoyt's every year.


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## BeastofEast (Sep 19, 2011)

Who cares honestly.


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## Dryfirecharlie (Mar 11, 2018)

Just my two cents on this, but my buddy is the local pro here and he shoots pse. The shop he runs sells a ton of pse bows, mostly stingers. Newbies walk in everyday looking for a bow and ask him what he shoots and why... then they buy pse because they trust him. He’s the “pro.” Dudley is the “pro” for probably 90% of the new influx bow hunters in the last 3 years. Do I think this will put hoyt out of business? No. Will it hurt hoyts sales? 100% without question. Will it be 5% 10%? I don’t know, but they’re about to have a down year. And on the flip side of that, wherever he lands Is gonna have a great year. Especially if Rogan goes where dud goes. He(dud) mentioned on the podcast that he will have direct input on the new bow and will have polls as to what “we” the users of that bow would like to see in a production bow. I wish all involved the best of luck, when he left under armour that was a huge blow, but they’ve been pushing remi Warren and have new exciting products coming to market so I guess it all worked out. Have a good weekend y’all. 


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## NYyotekiller (Dec 7, 2011)

*What’s up with hoyt?*

The writing was on the wall back when he had Pete Shepley on his podcast a month or so ago. 

I would be very surprised if he was going with someone other than PSE.


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## TheBozz (Aug 30, 2018)

ontarget7 said:


> The number of followers to a certain product bought through social media is actually a really low percentage.
> Don’t get me wrong, you have to do it for presence more than anything. Percentages of product sold to followers is actually quite low.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Percentage is low but it's not even debatable that a higher engagement equates to more sales especially in the demographics that most use social media. The correlation is only getting stronger.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



ontarget7 said:


> Percentages of product sold to followers is actually quite low.


So non followers have some sort of magical ability to know exactly when his releases are back in stock and sell them out? 
Not buying what you’re selling. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk]




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## samhel (Dec 31, 2010)

BeastofEast said:


> Who cares honestly.


You cared enough to click and comment, soooo....


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

friedm1 said:


> He sells out his releases in one day by going on Instagram and saying “they’re ready”. That’s the definition of turning followers into purchasers. With that being said, there are 100 archerytalk Hero’s who can’t monetize themselves. He definitely has a skill set that allows ppl to understand the way he explains things. Just look at some of the people on here with 20,000 posts who write paragraph after paragraph and it becomes painful.
> 
> Edit: this isn’t aimed at anyone specific, just a general opinion of the value ppl give themselves.


This is called creating a demand. 
This is a niche industry and the percentages from followers to sales is rather low.

I have had a few meetings at the ATA show regarding this same exact topic. 

AT members might think that things fly off the shelf but that’s just not the case in the big picture. 




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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

tmead said:


> So non followers have some sort of magical ability to know exactly when his releases are back in stock and sell them out?
> Not buying what you’re selling.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk]
> ...


I’m not selling anything, just reality. 



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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

IDK, Dudley is easily the most influential guy in the industry. Maybe you havent heard of him, but he has a tremendous reach.

It wont deter me from buying Hoyts. I hope like hell I like the RX4 Turbo. Im so used to working and tuning my hoyts that Id rather not change brands. But I will. Prime, Hoyt and Bowtech are on my radar. I am interested to see what Dudley does with whatever company he goes to.

I always found it odd that Hoyt never gave Dudley more freedom, or a signature bow. Cam Hanes has one, as does bone collector. I think ultimately, Dudley just wanted more control over the entire process and not just the marketing and pushing of Hoyts.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> Trivial thing to get into a pissing match over but he has a vid posted of him and Cam at the Bow Rack where he says hes sighting in new bow he went there to pick up.
> 
> Maybe he sent it back to Dud. BR set up Goggins bow Dud set up Stumpf and Jako’s rigs.
> 
> ...


Well Dudley has set up at lest 3 or 4 for Rogan thru instagram stories. And when Dudley switched from Under Armour to Sitka, so did Rogan. 
Regardless I don’t think Rogan is paying for any of those bows. On a recent podcast he gave Bryan Callen crap because Bryan hasn’t shot the bow that Rogan had Hoyt give him years ago.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

RK4 said:


> IDK, Dudley is easily the most influential guy in the industry. Maybe you havent heard of him, but he has a tremendous reach.
> 
> It wont deter me from buying Hoyts. I hope like hell I like the RX4 Turbo. Im so used to working and tuning my hoyts that Id rather not change brands. But I will. Prime, Hoyt and Bowtech are on my radar. I am interested to see what Dudley does with whatever company he goes to.
> 
> I always found it odd that Hoyt never gave Dudley more freedom, or a signature bow. Cam Hanes has one, as does bone collector. I think ultimately, Dudley just wanted more control over the entire process and not just the marketing and pushing of Hoyts.


I would have to agree, there are some little quirks I have noticed with Hoyt each year. I would have figured by now they would have been worked out with Dudley around. I wonder if they were not allowing Dudley to have as much input into the designs as he should have. 


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## bownero (Mar 12, 2011)

All I know is one of Dudley's good buddies is now shooting for PSE. Guessing that's the direction John is heading to also! Not sure, but inquiring minds like mine, want to know! John knows his chit and whatever his decision is will be well thought through!


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## Bassattackr (Oct 23, 2009)

RK4 said:


> IDK, Dudley is easily the most influential guy in the industry.


Not sure if I agree with that. I've been bowhunting for 10 years and I recently learned who he was. That being said, Cam Hanes has about 4 times as many followers, Drurys have twice as many, Lee and Tiffany also more, etc..


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## gregg883 (Mar 23, 2013)

Who cares I don’t let the internet or someone hunting show influence my decisions. I don’t need anyone to hold my hand.


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

BeastofEast said:


> Who cares honestly.


People who follow the archery world. 




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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Hope Rogan and Dudley go to PSE ...I seen Cory Anderson MMA fighter shooting a PSE Stealth !! Rogan has a lot of followers 
thats for sure , his friends and followers have money for archery gear haha


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## Anchor Zero Six (Nov 29, 2010)

tmead said:


> Well Dudley has set up at lest 3 or 4 for Rogan thru instagram stories. And when Dudley switched from Under Armour to Sitka, so did Rogan.
> Regardless I don’t think Rogan is paying for any of those bows. On a recent podcast he gave Bryan Callen crap because Bryan hasn’t shot the bow that Rogan had Hoyt give him years ago.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Think we are saying same thing. My only point is that it seems JR is much closer to Cam but thats not saying they all are not tight.

Cam and Dud podcast was hilarious, Cam can out shoot me no question but Dud was giving him crap for his form or lack of with his behind the head anchor and trigger slappyness. 




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## Unsaid (Sep 4, 2019)

The big picture is what is coming next for the industry? John has spent 20+ years in the industry and what I have seen is him trying to grow the archery community and help people.

Seems like this change is what is driving it? So what’s coming?


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> Think we are saying same thing. My only point is that it seems JR is much closer to Cam but thats not saying they all are not tight.
> 
> Cam and Dud podcast was hilarious, Cam can out shoot me no question but Dud was giving him crap for his form or lack of with his behind the head anchor and trigger slappyness.
> 
> ...


Haha I remember that, dude! Cam got a little defensive!! 


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## bownero (Mar 12, 2011)

Bassattackr said:


> Not sure if I agree with that. I've been bowhunting for 10 years and I recently learned who he was. That being said, Cam Hanes has about 4 times as many followers, Drurys have twice as many, Lee and Tiffany also more, etc..


When it comes down to all around Archery information, Dudley has way more followers! The people you mention are just hunting celebrities.


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## azscorpion (Feb 12, 2010)

ZZZZZ.....left them years ago and shoot Elite now.....Over priced and over rated.....PSE Bowtech, Elite, etc. have stepped up and made HUGE strides in the Hoyt foothold........


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Bassattackr said:


> That is odd, they just lost Chris Bee as well.


Who is this? 


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## NotDylan (May 4, 2014)

Welcome to Archery Talk where we talk about archery and all things related to it. Surprise.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Hoyt is very focused on their international shooters and market. Plus, who can afford a 1700 dollar bare bow. 

While I own a Hoyt, I don’t think I will buy another one. Too many strings/cables on the current bows. I will go with something more simple, and less expensive. 


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## bownero (Mar 12, 2011)

bdimaggio said:


> Who is this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Chris Bee is a professional shooter and hunter. Check out his YouTube vids.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

nightvision said:


> He will be fine and so will Hoyt. MYbe they’ll drop the price of the RX4 by $500.00 LOL


Right! 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

tennpin said:


> It's pretty simple they have just about priced themselves out of business .


Hoyt totally messed up with $1700 bare bows. 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

bkwentz said:


> Lol.
> You seem to have a real disdain for the famous, and that is your right, but to suggest that Dudley isn't a celebrity in the archery world is absurd. I've been on this forum for 2 weeks and I see Dudley mentioned almost every other day. Who else in this sport has that much impact?
> 
> go to google and paste this in the search bar: site: archerytalk.com John Dudley
> ...


Who is Chris Bee? 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

tnarb said:


> You got to be joking....


I heard he was going TRAD! Just kidding lol. 


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## pnw-bowhunter (Dec 25, 2019)

I find it interesting, the generational gap showing in this thread. 

Its not surprising, just interesting. 

Carry on. 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

PSE, Bowtech and Prime have come on strong this year.


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## pnw-bowhunter (Dec 25, 2019)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> Cam and Dud podcast was hilarious, Cam can out shoot me no question but Dud was giving him crap for his form or lack of with his behind the head anchor and trigger slappyness.


I swear its amazing how cam can shoot that way and be so accurate. His results are undeniable, but the way he almost swats at his trigger looks like he should miss by a mile....but he doesn’t. He hits 180-230 yard shots. Incredible. 



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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

bdimaggio said:


> PSE, Bowtech and Prime have come on strong this year.


Agreed! Heck I spoke to a buddy who is a Prime dealer, they said they are 8 weeks out for deliveries because they have been slammed with orders. Prime knocked it out of the ball park this year. They have already surpassed projected sales already for the year. 


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## hdrking2003 (Oct 6, 2011)

OMG!!!!! It's the end of compound bows as we know it!!!! Since Hoyt is losing a few pro shooters, the whole system is going to implode, no other company will have any bow worth shooting!!!! We all might as well just start shooting crossbows!!!!


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

ontarget7 said:


> This is called creating a demand.
> This is a niche industry and the percentages from followers to sales is rather low.
> 
> I have had a few meetings at the ATA show regarding this same exact topic.
> ...


You make a good point. I shoot weekly at several local ranges in my area. In the last few years I have only seen two of John Dudley’s releases. They looked very well made, and the owners loved them - one was a Silverback and the other was the green thumb trigger version. But to your comment, I don’t see a lot of Nock-On merchandise in my area. 

Funny, but a local pro shop owner was on the range complaining about John Dudley because of all the free video content he provides to archers. I guess John Dudley is creating a following of archers who can maintain and tune their own equipment, with less need for pro shop service. 

As a DIY archer, I am very thankful of his YouTube content. He is very helpful. I have bought a few items from his store as a way to thank him for all of the free content that he provides the DIY archer. 


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## nlpinc (Jan 5, 2020)

Just announced on his podcast today and Hoyt followed up on Instagram


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## nlpinc (Jan 5, 2020)

HUNTFROMABOVE said:


> I haven’t found anything saying that Dudley and Hoyt have parted ways. Do you have a link?


Instagram


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## tj hankinson (Jun 27, 2019)

dnv23 said:


> Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at Mathews.


That’s where Chris bee ended up so who knows


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## nlpinc (Jan 5, 2020)

TheBozz said:


> ok boomer


:cheers::cheers:


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## TannaciousZ (Nov 24, 2007)

$1700 for a bare bow is ridiculous. The industry needs to reel them prices back down before they all end up suffering from sales declines from inflated price tags. I'm sure there'd still be folks that'll drop that kind of money on a new rig every year and sell their "old" antiquated last year model one. Bows haven't had a dramatic change or awakening in quite a while. Yeah they've changed riser designs back and forth from reflex risers to deflex risers, riser materials from machined aluminum to carbon fiber, solid or split limbs, too many cam configurations to even think about, stupidly short sub 5" BH to more forgiving 6-1/2" to 7". Honestly bows hit the speed pinnacle around the 350-360 fps mark back in the mid to late 2000's with Bowtech's and Elite's. Everyone else followed suit or at least tried in some way to afterwards. They're not so much faster now that we're having to have some kind of NASA designed, carbon infused titanium alloy arrow with razor thin cape buffalo hide fletchings welded on with silverback gorilla glue so as to not blow off when shot. Bow mfr's mostly backed off going for more and more speed and are about comfort, tuning, dead in the hand and quiet all while being efficient and fast enough. A 330fps bow will kill anything big enough to die with the right arrow setup. That kind of bow design can all be accomplished for way less than $1700. Excellent customer service sells more products along with dealer support than alot of people realize. If you as a dealer sell a great product, and believe in it and the manufacturer bends over backwards to resolve any issues that may arise, that company and dealer will succeed, regardless of what celebrity is backing it. John's going to do great things wherever he ends up at. His passion for the archery community and teaching as many people about archery that he can, deserves recognition and I'm thankful there are people like him that are that devoted to this sport. His designed and endorsed products do have a bit of an increase to them and he does well marketing them. Archery is a family sport that should not only be enjoyable but affordable. I think that second part has gotten out of hand. I'd love to be able to afford a brand new hunting rig every year for my whole family, with the latest and greatest trinkets and doo-dads attached to them that the industry has to offer. But I dang sure can't justify spending that kind of money when it's just not necessary. Bows will continue to do what they we're designed to do many moons ago, hit their target. It's just frustrating to see these major manufacturers hitting their targets in the wrong spot, the consumers back pocket. Just my 2 cents....


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## Thompson316 (Mar 19, 2018)

I rode and raced downhill mountain bikes for close to 15 years. During mountain bikings hottest era of evolution and popularity from the late 90's through the mid 2000's. In addition to racing gaining recognition the freeride side of the sport was evolving quickly and gaining more and more Media (TV) exposure in a hurry as well.
During the summer time ski resorts were converted to MTB destinations and if you lived near any of them you've seen this for yourself.
Red Bull, XGames, Dew Tour all started featuring MTB events as well. Next thing you know bike shops are popping up like crazy and old shops are growing by leaps and bounds. 
The industry was booming. Pro riders and MFR's were getting rich. 
It cost me about $3000.00 to build my first serious Downhill rig. Less than 10 years later flagship bikes from their respective MFR'S average around $10,000. Yes you read that right...look it up for yourself. A bicycle...with no motor...$10,000. I can buy a brand new GSX-R 1000 for $10,000. Or a very nice used car or truck. 
I walked away from mountain biking and never looked back. Apparently I wasn't the only one because it's a DEAD SPORT now. Bike shops and online catalogue sales all shut down. No more TV. No more magazines. Resorts are ghost towns again. 

If I were Hoyt I would think very very hard about the story I just told because I was one of the Pro's I was talking about.


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## shootnAR (Jul 16, 2005)

What if Mathews is buying Hoyt? 



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## full moon64 (Jul 3, 2016)

shootnAR said:


> What if Mathews is buying Hoyt?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


you never know,did you see Bass Pro buying Cabelas?:set1_chores030:


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## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

Mr Dudley is big, no doubt, and whether or not his leaving Hoyt bothers their sales will be determined later. My guess is not much. BUT, remember when Levi went to Elite? They couldn't make bows fast enough. I do think Dudley is somewhat more famous than Levi to the average Joe.


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## leftee (Nov 15, 2005)

Wonder if he will shoot the new 'mouth tab' Evolve?


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

The crazy thing about the way things currently work is that people like Hushin, who in my opinion are entrepreneurs bumbling around the woods with bows, will move more product for a company than a guy Dan McCarthy. 

I wouldn't be surprised if more of the IG and YouTube hunters start taking more and more of the pie that typically belonged to Pro shooters, TV hunters and outdoor writers. 

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## chip387 (Dec 19, 2006)

yea, thats too bad. wont change my opinion on Hoyt, love them, but it would be nice to get them down in price.


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## chip387 (Dec 19, 2006)

on a side note, i do like watching Dudleys youtube vids


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## samhel (Dec 31, 2010)

bdimaggio said:


> Who is this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just stop. You know of him by now. You posted like 3 times on the Chris Bee thread about how you didn’t know him. 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

samhel said:


> Just stop. You know of him by now. You posted like 3 times on the Chris Bee thread about how you didn’t know him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I watch a lot of competitions, tournaments and shoot offs - I had never seen him compete. What is the last thing he won? May help me realize who he is. 

There are so many people making YouTube videos. No way of knowing. Was he paid shooter at Hoyt - 3D, FITA, ASA? 


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> Who is this?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you? a freakin parrot? Spend 5 minutes on youtube and search his name dude, the repetition is getting old



bownero said:


> Chris Bee is a professional shooter and hunter. Check out his YouTube vids.


that would be too easy for him to do



bdimaggio said:


> Who is Chris Bee?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*rolls my eyes


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## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

I shoot hoyts newest offerings every year. Nothing has tempted me to open my wallet since the Carbon Spyder ZT 34.


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## samhel (Dec 31, 2010)

bdimaggio said:


> I watch a lot of competitions, tournaments and shoot offs - I had never seen him compete. What is the last thing he won? May help me realize who he is.
> 
> There are so many people making YouTube videos. No way of knowing. Was he paid shooter at Hoyt - 3D, FITA, ASA?
> 
> ...


Nobody cares if you know of him or not. Coming on to multiple threads here claiming to not know him over and over is just a waste of time. 


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## bone74 (Aug 15, 2010)

bdimaggio said:


> I watch a lot of competitions, tournaments and shoot offs - I had never seen him compete. What is the last thing he won? May help me realize who he is.
> 
> There are so many people making YouTube videos. No way of knowing. Was he paid shooter at Hoyt - 3D, FITA, ASA?
> 
> ...


If you watch tournament shooting you should know him. He has been in the shoot offs at Vegas and has shot world tournaments for USA archery. He is still very young and has done very well!

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## PALongbow (Mar 2, 2008)

Maybe its just my age but I don't need someone to tell me how great a bow is or is not. I don't follow so called pro staff recommendations or suggestions. I shoot Hoyt bows for all my own reasons. I still think Hoyt is one if not the best bow companies that are still in existence. They have also elected not to sell their souls to the crossgun crowd. I would rather see companies have less so called pro staff and offer reasonably priced products. 

Ron


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## Nosajnh (Dec 11, 2018)

Sounds like he is going to be is going to be free to talk about products he likes with out influence of being a paid endorser. Maybe he will be paid by someone other than a specific bow manufacturer.


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## V-TRAIN (Feb 27, 2009)

Money talks and people walk, it happens in every profession.
It's as simple as that.


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## bowtech2006 (Apr 1, 2006)

enkriss said:


> I shoot hoyts newest offerings every year. Nothing has tempted me to open my wallet since the Carbon Spyder ZT 34.


I agree, but found the rx4 ultra to be up to the zt34


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## Rhino8124 (Jan 29, 2017)

Who is Hoyt?


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## Gruder (Feb 19, 2016)

I've been bow hunting for over 30 yrs. but it's only been the last 10 or so since I started looking into the "modern" way of tuning compounds and trying to understand them, before that there just wasn't anybody knowing it, teaching it. So basically for 20 yrs I've been shooting pretty much out of tune bows.
Duds videos help me a lot in understanding these things, among others of course but I really respect Duds approach.
I think if Dud had several million$ he would start his own line and do very well. I bet he comes up with a signature bow or is involved in development.
I feel I'm very capable and self reliant on bow tuning now and probably not much left to learn but I still would have joined his nock on program just to stay on top of things, it just never got going.
Wish Dud the best and will be watching!
Hoyts been around forever and will be for awhile I expect. Great bows this year and I'm sure to follow.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

Ar56903 said:


> Dudley just announced he is leaving Hoyt. Which means, more likely than not, all of Dudleys friends will probably start shooting whatever bow he does. That means Hoyt just lost Joe Rogan and all of his friends.
> 
> From a marketing standpoint, I can imagine this being potentially devastating to a brand. I know these individuals are YouTube / podcast celebrities, but you can’t deny that they reach a huge market.
> 
> ...


I think Hoyt missed the mark with over investing in their pros they where paying and giving away bows to anyone with a pulse but as a result have had to raise their prices to far above the competition without producing a better product. Other company’s spend on marketing but it’s more targeting and focused at the end of the day Hoyt makes good bows but middle of the pack at best.


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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

Gruder said:


> I feel I'm very capable and self reliant on bow tuning now and probably not much left to learn but I still would have joined his nock on program just to stay on top of things, it just never got going.
> Wish Dud the best and will be watching!


I definitely feel the same way. His videos are invaluable to the DIY bow community. I bought a Hoyt and watched his nocked and ready to rock series. I learned how to change string and completely set up and tune a bow myself. Then watched the School on Nock videos to learn how to properly shoot it. 

Honesty, I’m excited he is leaving hoyt. Especially if he will have the freedom to provide the same level of content with a bunch of other bow brands.


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## knotdodger (Oct 2, 2005)

I just found his Nock on youtube channel. Probably because I always shoot a recurve. And from a compound rookie, " me ", His channel is great.
He gives so much information to someone like me. I have new to archery friends that feel blessed that he gives so many tips for new archers. 
And for myself, when I do get a compound this year, I will purchase what he says is good. 
The information on his channel top notch for a hunter like myself. Can't wait for his next youtube video to come out.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

Ar56903 said:


> Gruder said:
> 
> 
> > I feel I'm very capable and self reliant on bow tuning now and probably not much left to learn but I still would have joined his nock on program just to stay on top of things, it just never got going.
> ...


My local dealer who I believe is fairly unbiased said prior to the increase in cost associated with the carbon promotion as their best he sold an equal amount of hoyts to his other big brands the last few year and this year being the worst it has been 10-1 the other bows over the Hoyts.


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## Fdale's Finest (Oct 19, 2007)

I just listened to Dudley's latest podcast. If you listen closely it sounds like there was some serious friction towards the end of the relationship with Hoyt vs. how he said his good bye's to UA. To me there was some resentment and maybe I am reading more into it but it seemed to me he wanted a Dudley series bow like Cam and the Bone Collector guys. But lets face it the average person has never heard of him until they have gotten immersed into archery since they don't see him on cable TV or like Cam who has made significant crossover with articles in GQ for instance, Pro Football players wearing his clothes and being on the Rogan podcast several times. Yes I know Dudley has been on Rogan's podcast but so have many other people that aren't mainstream.

I feel he has done some great things for the archery community but since his relationship with Sitka his podcasts seem much more an infomercial than they used too.

Either way I will shoot Hoyt again if I like what they make when I am in the market for a new bow. No "pro" influences me on my bow choices


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## smokecity (Jul 13, 2010)

You shouldn’t be allowed to comment until you listen to the pod cast.... 




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## gdubbmx (Dec 28, 2018)

I listened to the podcast and what I took from it is he really wants to be able to have the freedom to promote products/brands he thinks will benefit archery in general. Hoyt is going a certain direction which doesnt fit into his plans at this point. 

There didn't seem to be any animosity there at all. Dud made sure to stress in his opinion Hoyt is a great product, so that wasn't the issue. He also stressed he wants archers to use whatever brand suits them best, not because he uses them. 

All in all, imo, it just comes down to he is doing what will make him happy and as far as I'm concerned, he has that right as much as the rest of us. I wish him the best and I'll definitely continue to tag along as he goes on.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

Fdale's Finest said:


> I just listened to Dudley's latest podcast. If you listen closely it sounds like there was some serious friction towards the end of the relationship with Hoyt vs. how he said his good bye's to UA. To me there was some resentment and maybe I am reading more into it but it seemed to me he wanted a Dudley series bow like Cam and the Bone Collector guys. But lets face it the average person has never heard of him until they have gotten immersed into archery since they don't see him on cable TV or like Cam who has made significant crossover with articles in GQ for instance, Pro Football players wearing his clothes and being on the Rogan podcast several times. Yes I know Dudley has been on Rogan's podcast but so have many other people that aren't mainstream.
> 
> I feel he has done some great things for the archery community but since his relationship with Sitka his podcasts seem much more an infomercial than they used too.
> 
> Either way I will shoot Hoyt again if I like what they make when I am in the market for a new bow. No "pro" influences me on my bow choices


 I agree with Dudley pushing his products like a cheap infomercial Rage Hecs Sitka some are good but I personally believe Dudley’s biggest marketing value is convincing Rogan etc to use them not in his endorsement Rogan obviously is not an archery expert however he has a bigger following than any of the others mentioned combined.


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## BeastofEast (Sep 19, 2011)

Rhino8124 said:


> Who is Hoyt?


^lol


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

conservewild said:


> I think Hoyt missed the mark with over investing in their pros they where paying and giving away bows to anyone with a pulse but as a result have had to raise their prices to far above the competition without producing a better product. Other company’s spend on marketing but it’s more targeting and focused at the end of the day Hoyt makes good bows but middle of the pack at best.


I agree with that statement and believe there is some validity to it. That’s why I’m so excited this actually happened. Since I believe for years Hoyt although making a good product has been coasting on marketing and failing to make a great product. I’m hoping this holds their feet to the fire to either shave prices a little to correlate with their current level of products or sit down and discuss what they can lace up tighter on their products to reflect what they want to charge people. 

The things that I absolutely love from Hoyt are the forgiving butter smooth draw cycles, some of the best string angles and their hell n back durability. Been in and out of the archery industry since I was 16, worked in 5 shops across the nation and owned my own. Most were a Hoyt dealer including mine. I can’t deny the abuse and use I’ve seen Hoyts take. That aspect is incredible. 

However with that said, I’m honestly tired of having to adjust petty little issues each year from them. Such as inaccurate brace heights, axle to axles, draw lengths and somewhat wild swings in peak weight, even cams that came in as a 29” slot setting not even close to being timed. All of which are correctable but I’m honestly getting tired as a tech having to constantly fix these little issues that should be tightened up from the factory. I mean most other companies don’t have nearly the issue. I’ll give them kudos where it’s due, but I really hope that this hits home for them and lace up what is and has not been tight for years.

I’m currently looking at a Mathews Traveres and a PSE EVOKE 35, some things I love about them and some I prefer on my Hoyts. However it might not be the most attractive riser or I might not be the biggest fan of the Mathews draw cycle. But one thing I absolutely appreciate is when I place a tape measure on the axles, it’s the correct advertised ata, or brace height and draw length. Or when you put it on the scale it’s accurate or a little above the peak weight. What I appreciate of other brands right now, is it might be simple engineering but it’s engineering that works. Long risers, short limbs, easy brace heights,etc... but they just work and they just shoot phenomenal. It might be a cam system that is 2 or 3 years old but instead of reaching for the stars each year, they work on perfecting that platform, specs are accurate, tolerances are tight and things that should be laced up tight are. And for that I appreciate what other companies are doing in relation to Hoyt. 

If they could seriously tighten up some of the loose little measures, improve quality control, give their team more time to assemble correctly the first time and finally bite the bullet and apply better finishes. Then they would quiet honestly have one of the best products on the market. Their designs, reliability and tech are their, but specs, tolerances...for the majority of bows both customers as well as my own it has not been the case. 

Love their stuff, don’t get me wrong but I really really hope that this move is not just all of us debating about “one guy” leaving but more importantly hits Hoyt with a good dose of Humility. Something Hoyt I believe needs to experience. I just hope that this takes Hoyt “good” product offerings and turns it into a “great” product offering. I’m crossing my fingers this is actually a great thing for all of use as a consumer, dealers, techs and all archers a like.


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## mikesmith66 (Aug 8, 2008)

conservewild said:


> I think Hoyt missed the mark with over investing in their pros they where paying and giving away bows to anyone with a pulse but as a result have had to raise their prices to far above the competition without producing a better product. Other company’s spend on marketing but it’s more targeting and focused at the end of the day Hoyt makes good bows but middle of the pack at best.


What "pros" are you speaking of ? 

Just cruising the Lancaster site, Mathews, Hoyt, Pse and Bowtech all have target bows that are priced close enough to not worry a serious shopper than can afford one. In fact some are identical. PSE slightly lower. You're gonna spend $1600-$1800 on any of the 4. Matter of fact, the Mathews and Bowtech cost as much as the Hoyt shoot thru riser target bows. 

All their top of the line aluminum riser hunting bow are priced competitively. They are close enough to allow a shopper that can afford one to chose the one that he likes the best and not worry about the $50-$100 difference. You're gonna spend $1000-$1150 on all of them. If a guy likes the $1150 bow more than the $1099 bow, he's gonna buy the $1150. 

The only bow Hoyt offers that isn't priced to compete with the other's hunting bow offerings is the carbon series. And comparing the HOyt carbon price to a mathews /pse/bowtech alum hunting bow isn't a fair comparison, no matter if it's called the "flagship" or not. 

I scratch my head at the "hoyts cost to much" complaints. If you can't afford the carbon bow, try the alum riser. Identical specs. Been that way for 10 years.


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## WickedPissah316 (May 11, 2018)

My carbon stealth is a sweet bow. And I traded a piece of junk Elite for it. I’m very excited to see what Dud will do if he ends up at PSE


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## Daddybuck-kilr (Feb 17, 2011)

A lot of you guys are missing an important fact. Hoyt pays people like Dud to promote and ultimately sell product. So losing him is a big deal. All you guys going meh no big deal I think are not understanding. All manufacturers have staff shooters to do what? They pay them to promote and influence their products in a positive way there by selling bows. Dud is huge in the archery world with lots of influence. Him parting ways with Hoyt is really big.


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## Anderd01 (Apr 18, 2018)

He put it on his pod cast a tyesterday


scpowerman said:


> When/how did he announce this?


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

Daddybuck-kilr said:


> A lot of you guys are missing an important fact. Hoyt pays people like Dud to promote and ultimately sell product. So losing him is a big deal. All you guys going meh no big deal I think are not understanding. All manufacturers have staff shooters to do what? They pay them to promote and influence their products in a positive way there by selling bows. Dud is huge in the archery world with lots of influence. Him parting ways with Hoyt is really big.



Really big....for whom?


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

spike camp said:


> Really big....for whom?


For sales numbers. Believe me or not but I got to be a part of the Nock 2 Fork experience in Utah a few summers back with John Dudley and Traeger Grills. We all got to shoot with Dudley over at the Easton International center. 50ish shooters and maybe 3 where non Hoyt bows, new carbon bows for that matter. Pretty much what ever Dudley was shooting everyone else was. 

In other words the dude pushed some seriously heavy sales numbers for Hoyt. 


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## NotDylan (May 4, 2014)

bdimaggio said:


> I watch a lot of competitions, tournaments and shoot offs - I had never seen him compete. What is the last thing he won? May help me realize who he is.
> 
> There are so many people making YouTube videos. No way of knowing. Was he paid shooter at Hoyt - 3D, FITA, ASA?


Here ya go, bud.

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=chris+bee


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

This will be the last post on the subject I will try to do for a while. I was going to wait until John announces where he is going and his future plans before I wrote anything because I know there will probably be a lot of questions and clarification wanted as all the information comes out. All of that is John’s to tell not mine but thought I could maybe help out a bit in getting the word out on some of the points he covered on the podcast a bit and why he decided to partner with some new companies going forward. This post will quickly get lost in the sauce of this and the upcoming threads that will be posted but that is how forums work, with so few anymore reading through what others wrote before posting.

First, this move was NOT about money. Sure there was money involved but there was a lot of money from all the bow companies as they would all like to have Dudley on their staff. This move was about opportunities to really help and make huge changes in the archery community. There is so much cool stuff coming in the months ahead that it will absolutely blow the mind of any serious archer. Opportunities to connect and interact with archery and Bowhunting companies on a level consumers never have before. John will be able to act as the liaison between the companies and the consumers in an amazing way. 

Second, John was concerned about those that follow him and his advise and bought Hoyts and other products now thinking they are getting left out. About a week ago John and I were monching some street tacos and margaritas and talking abut the Holidays, family, work, the usual... but he kept coming back around to the fact he was a bit worried about those that might feel like they got a bit blindsided as they bought a Hoyt and now Dud will shoot something else. We talked a lot about it (not that he needs my advise on business or archery, Hell he’s forgotten more than I will ever know). But he just wanted to make sure everyone knew the Hoyt did and does make an excellent product but he decided to partner with another company that makes an equally excellent product AND allows him to do so much more and really cut loose with his creative side. To really have input from him on the designs going forward and like he said on the podcast not just a sticker on a limb. 

Third, John knows the archery world is changing. Ask any of the other big name pro staffers and see what response you get. Watch the stammering around for an answer they provide. Dudley fully understands and can articulate that understanding of consumers now often knowing more then a lot of archery shops when it comes to the technical specs of products, new products coming out and having a repeatable, systematic and feedback driven method of setting up new bows and gear. John hopes to change this for the better in the future. 

This change will take a little bit of time to get everything ironed out, as you would expect when moving from one company that you have been with so long to another. But it will generate some amazing things. 

John will do great, Hoyt will be ok, and I can’t wait to see all the awesome things to come.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

4IDARCHER said:


> This will be the last post on the subject I will try to do for a while. I was going to wait until John announces where he is going and his future plans before I wrote anything because I know there will probably be a lot of questions and clarification wanted as all the information comes out. All of that is John’s to tell not mine but thought I could maybe help out a bit in getting the word out on some of the points he covered on the podcast a bit and why he decided to partner with some new companies going forward. This post will quickly get lost in the sauce of this and the upcoming threads that will be posted but that is how forums work, with so few anymore reading through what others wrote before posting.
> 
> First, this move was NOT about money. Sure there was money involved but there was a lot of money from all the bow companies as they would all like to have Dudley on their staff. This move was about opportunities to really help and make huge changes in the archery community. There is so much cool stuff coming in the months ahead that it will absolutely blow the mind of any serious archer. Opportunities to connect and interact with archery and Bowhunting companies on a level consumers never have before. John will be able to act as the liaison between the companies and the consumers in an amazing way.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the feedback. I’m pretty excited for the whole deal. For Hoyt, for the new company, the new opportunities, etc.. 

I’m excited to see how this will help expand archery as a whole. Hopefully this will help project Archery into stronger popularity and strengthen the market as a collective regardless of the brands people use. 

Thanks man!! Very enlightening! 


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> This will be the last post on the subject I will try to do for a while. I was going to wait until John announces where he is going and his future plans before I wrote anything because I know there will probably be a lot of questions and clarification wanted as all the information comes out. All of that is John’s to tell not mine but thought I could maybe help out a bit in getting the word out on some of the points he covered on the podcast a bit and why he decided to partner with some new companies going forward. This post will quickly get lost in the sauce of this and the upcoming threads that will be posted but that is how forums work, with so few anymore reading through what others wrote before posting.
> 
> First, this move was NOT about money. Sure there was money involved but there was a lot of money from all the bow companies as they would all like to have Dudley on their staff. This move was about opportunities to really help and make huge changes in the archery community. There is so much cool stuff coming in the months ahead that it will absolutely blow the mind of any serious archer. Opportunities to connect and interact with archery and Bowhunting companies on a level consumers never have before. John will be able to act as the liaison between the companies and the consumers in an amazing way.
> 
> ...


very nice, thank you for the information.
looking forward to whats next


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

In my microcosm of Hoyts (or insert any other big bow maker) market, I see guys looking at price tags and walking away. 

Lots of these people come in and gobble up Raven X-bows spending 2k without a bat of an eye. There is usually a very low stock of X-bows like the Raven at the shop. The general public wants X-bows and the ease they provide. The newer generations want and crave instant success. There is no instant success in learning vertical bows.

With open laws allowing all types of bows, the archery landscape has changed for good. It is what the people wanted.

Hoyt and all the rest need to accommodate these market changes or die. Simple as that.

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## Anderd01 (Apr 18, 2018)

RK4 said:


> IDK, Dudley is easily the most influential guy in the industry. Maybe you havent heard of him, but he has a tremendous reach.
> 
> It wont deter me from buying Hoyts. I hope like hell I like the RX4 Turbo. Im so used to working and tuning my hoyts that Id rather not change brands. But I will. Prime, Hoyt and Bowtech are on my radar. I am interested to see what Dudley does with whatever company he goes to.
> 
> I always found it odd that Hoyt never gave Dudley more freedom, or a signature bow. Cam Hanes has one, as does bone collector. I think ultimately, Dudley just wanted more control over the entire process and not just the marketing and pushing of Hoyts.


I Agree, listening to his podcast sounded like he wanted his own finger print on his line of bows.


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## mikesmith66 (Aug 8, 2008)

My question concerning Duds is will he stick with Sure Loc sights ? They basically have had nothing available to purchase for the hunting world for a couple years now.


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## BOWPOO (Jul 8, 2017)

It's painful to listen to John at times as he beats around the bush to be, in my opinion, over courteous. I really appreciate all his teaching and videos and look forward to new offerings from him, especially when he's not hung over and dragging butt. He is making this move to put more coin in his pocket, and I don't blame him. There are many products from different companies that are fabulous, gone are the days of one company dominating the entire market. A 'teacher' and supplier not bought out by a certain provider is what the archery community needs. That being said, I hope John 'goes nowhere'.... know what I mean?

And no disrespect to Chris Bee (he's great), but to link Bee and Dudley together is like comparing a .22cal to a 50cal. when speaking of 'influence' in the archery world.


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## Davidhes (May 25, 2018)

I would not buy a pse if god were on their pro staff. Every one I ever picked up felt cheap.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

whack n stack said:


> In my microcosm of Hoyts (or insert any other big bow maker) market, I see guys looking at price tags and walking away.
> 
> Lots of these people come in and gobble up Raven X-bows spending 2k without a bat of an eye. There is usually a very low stock of X-bows like the Raven at the shop. The general public wants X-bows and the ease they provide. The newer generations want and crave instant success. There is no instant success in learning vertical bows.
> 
> ...


Someone here gets it.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Davidhes said:


> I would not buy a pse if god were on their pro staff. Every one I ever picked up felt cheap.


guessing heavy feels expensive to you in the Carbon bow line ? well the good news for you,, you should be able to pick up
your expensive feeling Hoyts cheap because lots of people dropping them not just Dudley....


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## mrwhite87 (Apr 6, 2019)

I am just shy of a full year into archery. 
I caved and jumped into tgis rabbit hole after listening to many episodes of JRE with cam and Dudley. 
They sold me on archery. Not a brand. 

Rogan, Cam, Dudley, Chris Beethe Hushin guys and Meateater crew are the only celebs I notice. All those hoyt guys didnt convince me to buy a hoyt. But I recognize that many would follow them blindly. 

Dud is a big name and he reaches a lot more possible archery recruits than many/most factory shooters. 

All this to say diddly squat. But i am curious to see what he starts shooting.


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

Davidhes said:


> I would not buy a pse if god were on their pro staff. Every one I ever picked up felt cheap.


dont overthink it, and good luck:thumbs_up


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## full moon64 (Jul 3, 2016)

Davidhes said:


> I would not buy a pse if god were on their pro staff. Every one I ever picked up felt cheap.


totally agree grip and or handle metal 2x4 no kidding..awful draw too


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## Anchor Zero Six (Nov 29, 2010)

Well ATA will answer the question of where is he going next. I just listened to the podcast and earlier in the week as fate would have it I listened to the episode with PSE Pete.

I agree with those speculating that PSE will be his next move. 

I currently shoot a Mathews but most of the bows I have owned have been PSE and I see alot of value in them. I still have a Drive as a backup and wife has a stiletto.

Why I think PSE would be a good fit is Dudley is all about growing the sport and PSE has offerings which fit a wide range of budgets. I think that will dovetail well with his content. 

Either way I will give him props for loyalty and professionalism in how he handled this as well as his departure from Mathews way back when.

Might be fun to start a poll to guess where hes landing next. 

Put me down for PSE but Im not giving up my VXR either way!


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## nightvision (Aug 30, 2011)

bdimaggio said:


> Right!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh cmon. Work with me on this!


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## Hoytarcher62 (Mar 9, 2012)

changing manufactures is nothing new . I don't believe money is NOT a factor . but I do believe he would like to endorse his own styles and opinions. if you put your name on it your looking to get compensation for it . I'm sure Cam and the Bone collector crew get a little extra from Hoyt for using their names. others " famous" archers have changed bow companies in the past and archery will survive. It took Dudley and Bee a while to build their recognition and another new and up and coming archer will more than likely step right in to represent Hoyt going forward . personally I don't think it matters what bow Dudley was working on in his videos people soaked up the Knowledge and used it for their own situation I wish Dudley and Bee all the best wishes and hope they find what they are looking for .


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Smoothy750 said:


> What are you? a freakin parrot? Spend 5 minutes on youtube and search his name dude, the repetition is getting old
> 
> 
> that would be too easy for him to do
> ...


Smoothy - tracking who he is now. I didn’t realize he was a Hoyt shooter. Is he the goofy one that did the YouTube video on using a $5 release? If I remember right, he actually shot very well with the $5 dollar release. I think he may have ruined an X10 in the process. Lol. Anyway, best of luck to him. With that said, I don’t think that I could mention him in the same sentence as THE John Dudley. Not sure Chris Bee’s contributions to fellow archers can measure anywhere need Dudley’s impact on the sport. 


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## full moon64 (Jul 3, 2016)

John Dudley is great teacher,watch his you tube channel daily..I never had anyone teach how too shoot..The hunting part i picked up quickly...Where ever he goes it doesn't matter..Would I buy a bow he shoots, no..Been watching him for years. Its been 20 years since I had a Hoyt..

I wish him the best..Great guy :cheers:


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

conservewild said:


> My local dealer who I believe is fairly unbiased said prior to the increase in cost associated with the carbon promotion as their best he sold an equal amount of hoyts to his other big brands the last few year and this year being the worst it has been 10-1 the other bows over the Hoyts.


No doubt - one of the local shops in my area moved the Hoyts to the furthest back rack. Mathews, BT, and PSE are all seen before Hoyts. 

I don’t think I’ll buy Hoyt again - for a while at least. No real progress on their hunting bows in comparison to BT, Mathews, and Prime. 


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

I’m guessing Dudley goes with PSE they seem the most willing to put a bunch of bows out I can’t see Mathews going the route or giving someone their own design


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## nightvision (Aug 30, 2011)

Dudley is IMO the best spokesman for archery ever. He genuinely wants to help people and he has helped many.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

conservewild said:


> I agree with Dudley pushing his products like a cheap infomercial Rage Hecs Sitka some are good but I personally believe Dudley’s biggest marketing value is convincing Rogan etc to use them not in his endorsement Rogan obviously is not an archery expert however he has a bigger following than any of the others mentioned combined.


I love what Dudley has done for the sport, but I quit listening to his podcasts due to the ridiculous amount of advertisement. It has gotten pretty ridiculous. Hopefully he tones down all the advertisement in the future. I get appeasing your sponsors, but the archery podcasts went downhill in terms of providing knowledge and content. 


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## gridman (Aug 26, 2007)

I like Dudley, I believe he is more influential than some might think, is Hoyt in trouble because he's leaving? I highly doubt it. Hoyt was doing just fine before he came, and they will likely do just fine after he's gone.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

mikesmith66 said:


> What "pros" are you speaking of ?
> 
> Just cruising the Lancaster site, Mathews, Hoyt, Pse and Bowtech all have target bows that are priced close enough to not worry a serious shopper than can afford one. In fact some are identical. PSE slightly lower. You're gonna spend $1600-$1800 on any of the 4. Matter of fact, the Mathews and Bowtech cost as much as the Hoyt shoot thru riser target bows.
> 
> ...


Why you have to bash a fellow archer’s opinion. If he thinks Hoyts cost too much, it’s his opinion. 1700 for a hunting bow is pretty ridiculous.... and it still weighs 4+ pounds. Too much cabling, not enough adjustability. Old technology quite frankly. Hoyt is not keeping pace with Bowtech, Prime, Mathews, etc. 

Also in my opinion, Hoyt seems more worried about their international image and foreign archers. They seem to have forgotten about good ole’Merica. And trust me when I say that Mathews has gladly stepped up its game and commitment to hunting and target shooters in the the US. 

I prefer to buy a more technologically sound bow - and Hoyt has not delivered in recent years. 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Daddybuck-kilr said:


> A lot of you guys are missing an important fact. Hoyt pays people like Dud to promote and ultimately sell product. So losing him is a big deal. All you guys going meh no big deal I think are not understanding. All manufacturers have staff shooters to do what? They pay them to promote and influence their products in a positive way there by selling bows. Dud is huge in the archery world with lots of influence. Him parting ways with Hoyt is really big.


Agree - Hoyt messed up here. 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

BOWPOO said:


> It's painful to listen to John at times as he beats around the bush to be, in my opinion, over courteous. I really appreciate all his teaching and videos and look forward to new offerings from him, especially when he's not hung over and dragging butt. He is making this move to put more coin in his pocket, and I don't blame him. There are many products from different companies that are fabulous, gone are the days of one company dominating the entire market. A 'teacher' and supplier not bought out by a certain provider is what the archery community needs. That being said, I hope John 'goes nowhere'.... know what I mean?
> 
> And no disrespect to Chris Bee (he's great), but to link Bee and Dudley together is like comparing a .22cal to a 50cal. when speaking of 'influence' in the archery world.


Right... not sure what dummie even mentioned them in the same post. Johns contribution tower that of Mr Bee’s. 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Friedfifo said:


> Hoyt will survive and you will be able to buy Hoyt bows and accessories at any fine wal mart near you.


Lol - you may be right. 


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## friedm1 (Jan 31, 2007)

I wish bdimmagio would post more. He’s clearly the most knowledgeable.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Saw this on Instagram so I stole it.










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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

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## Spency (Oct 29, 2009)

friedm1 said:


> I wish bdimmagio would post more. He’s clearly the most knowledgeable.


Yes, these threads get ridiculous and bring out the best.


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## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

Spency said:


> Yes, these threads get ridiculous and bring out the best.


I think I just skimmed through 8 pages of the most useless garbage I've ever read on AT.


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## Thundersnow (Nov 15, 2014)

It's an election year... Hoyt is thinning the herd in anticipation of a possible Democrat winning the election and the corresponding economic downturn.


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Thundersnow said:


> It's an election year... Hoyt is thinning the herd in anticipation of a possible Democrat winning the election and the corresponding economic downturn.


Priceless!!!!!!! That’s exactly what will happen too 


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## Woolley (Aug 3, 2012)

I don't have much of opinion on what Dudley leaving will do but in my area both major archery shops don't even carry Hoyt anymore. At one shop you can still order one but they don't keep them in stock. I know both shops got stuck with a lot of inventory that Hoyt made them buy. It went south from there.


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## full moon64 (Jul 3, 2016)

Woolley said:


> I don't have much of opinion on what Dudley leaving will do but in my area both major archery shops don't even carry Hoyt anymore. At one shop you can still order one but they don't keep them in stock. I know both shops got stuck with a lot of inventory that Hoyt made them buy. It went south from there.


yikes....not good


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

JPR79 said:


> Spency said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, these threads get ridiculous and bring out the best.
> ...


 you don’t read many threads then plenty of more useless garbage than this


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Woolley said:


> I don't have much of opinion on what Dudley leaving will do but in my area both major archery shops don't even carry Hoyt anymore. At one shop you can still order one but they don't keep them in stock. I know both shops got stuck with a lot of inventory that Hoyt made them buy. It went south from there.


Egh I wouldnt look too deep into it. I’ve lived all over the US and worked in bow shops everywhere I’ve been. The East is saturated with Mathews. Come out here to the Rockies and everyone and there grandmother thinks they have to have a Hoyt to shoot an elk. Some areas will look more bleak than others for certain brands. With that said my personal shop when I was a dealer was a Hoyt dealer and they didn’t sale for crap in North Texas. PSE and Mathews reigned supreme. Now living into the Rockies, Hoyt is absolutely everywhere. It’s kind of nice though to begin to see more Mathews, PSE and Primes though. 


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## BOWPOO (Jul 8, 2017)

JPR79 said:


> I think I just skimmed through 8 pages of the most useless garbage I've ever read on AT.


And look, you just added more to it Oscar. One man's trash is another man's treasure, so I've heard.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Woolley said:


> I don't have much of opinion on what Dudley leaving will do but in my area both major archery shops don't even carry Hoyt anymore. At one shop you can still order one but they don't keep them in stock. I know both shops got stuck with a lot of inventory that Hoyt made them buy. It went south from there.


not a good sign with Rx4 on the shelves sitting with high price tags ..and a very long waiting list of orders for other brand Carbon bows .maybe their strong target following over seas will off set this ...


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## full moon64 (Jul 3, 2016)

conservewild said:


> you don’t read many threads then plenty of more useless garbage than this


why did you post on hereimp:


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## juanma666 (Mar 5, 2011)

Hi.
In Spain, stores that sell HOYT compound have generally lowered the price of bows, because they have too much material stored without selling.
The impression I have is that HOYT has relaxed in terms of compound bow and other brands are now more cutting-edge technology.

Lately PSE, Mathews and Bowtech companies have more acceptance by compound archers; HOYT still has the same acceptance in recurve arc.


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## Woolley (Aug 3, 2012)

bigbucks170 said:


> not a good sign with Rx4 on the shelves sitting with high price tags ..and a very long waiting list of orders for other brand Carbon bows .maybe their strong target following over seas will off set this ...


They were fairly popular in my area for as long as I have been in archery (20 years) but they have definitely fallen off. Could have just been a bad rep and some disappointing years. I will say there seems to be many more companies putting out quality bows these days. Hopefully they will be fine.


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## gdubbmx (Dec 28, 2018)

4IDARCHER said:


> This will be the last post on the subject I will try to do for a while. I was going to wait until John announces where he is going and his future plans before I wrote anything because I know there will probably be a lot of questions and clarification wanted as all the information comes out. All of that is John’s to tell not mine but thought I could maybe help out a bit in getting the word out on some of the points he covered on the podcast a bit and why he decided to partner with some new companies going forward. This post will quickly get lost in the sauce of this and the upcoming threads that will be posted but that is how forums work, with so few anymore reading through what others wrote before posting.
> 
> First, this move was NOT about money. Sure there was money involved but there was a lot of money from all the bow companies as they would all like to have Dudley on their staff. This move was about opportunities to really help and make huge changes in the archery community. There is so much cool stuff coming in the months ahead that it will absolutely blow the mind of any serious archer. Opportunities to connect and interact with archery and Bowhunting companies on a level consumers never have before. John will be able to act as the liaison between the companies and the consumers in an amazing way.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification and insight.


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## 27:3 Archery (Sep 28, 2017)

The Dud is a BAMF no matter what he shoots! Hoyt will be more than fine they are the top dog and someone will
Need to dethrone them before they can be considered in trouble. 

With that said John has helped thousands of archers and continues too! He is a stand up guy and has always been about bringing new blood into the sport. I don’t know of to many people who just get into archery and ask for the 1,800 dollar Invicta or RX-4. 

If you listened to the Dud’s pod cast he wants to have some design input into a bow Nock On style I’m sure and I doubt he had that luxury with Hoyt. So 2021 we will have to wait and see what he and whatever company he is now with? Which he will talk about this Thursday at the ATA. But maybe yes PSE just as they pulled Dave Cousins. Upward and onward and can’t wait to see what the Nock On Nation has in store for us!!!


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## Thompson316 (Mar 19, 2018)

Friedfifo said:


> Hoyt will survive and you will be able to buy Hoyt bows and accessories at any fine wal mart near you.


I've been saying this for about 3 years. 

If we're all gonna be honest here Hoyt hasn't had a hot bow since the Nitrum. Defiant was an epic disappointment and beat like a dead horse. RedWrx is the worst marketing decision in the history of archery. 

There's really not a lot to debate. Hoyt's definitely on its way out. Whether selling out to another major manufacturer or to the big box stores...the long-term outlook for Hoyt is just plain BAD. 

(Coming from a guy who shot 7 different Hoyt's over 15 years.)


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## Rev44 (Dec 19, 2008)

Thompson316 said:


> I've been saying this for about 3 years.
> 
> If we're all gonna be honest here Hoyt hasn't had a hot bow since the Nitrum. Defiant was an epic disappointment and beat like a dead horse. RedWrx is the worst marketing decision in the history of archery.
> 
> ...


Far from it. 

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## scpowerman (Sep 19, 2015)

We might get a Nock On/Dudley bow out of this.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

scpowerman said:


> We might get a Nock On/Dudley bow out of this.


I’m sure it will be nauseously the best bow of all time. Maybe he will wrap it in a Hecs wrap and have an integrated Rage cage. Or even a higher Primate edition.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

Y


conservewild said:


> I’m sure it will be nauseously the best bow of all time. Maybe he will wrap it in a Hecs wrap and have an integrated Rage cage. Or even a higher Primate edition.


Lol!!


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

Davidhes said:


> I would not buy a pse if god were on their pro staff. Every one I ever picked up felt cheap.


I'll sell you my new carbon PSE for $1... 

OOPS- you said you wouldn't buy one even if God were on their pro staff. You could have turned around and sold it for $1400... bummer


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## Thefuzz011 (Dec 28, 2019)

Hoyt has been putting out a lot of the same technology recently. I am aware that other bow company's are doing the same, but It seems like Hoyt is doing it more so. The carbon series bows like the RX1-4 are practically the same and reach a smaller portion of the hunting audience then any other bow company. I'd be curious to see the sales profit margins on the carbon series compared to their other lines. 

Hoyt is starting to loose its pro representation in the ever growing and popular 3D circuits as well which could be effecting sales as well. I'd be surprised if Hoyt couldn't keep up with the contingency checks for its pros and thus are loosing representation to companies that can afford it. Just a thought though.


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## Thwapman (Apr 2, 2012)

Would anybody be able to fill me in on some possibly bad broadhead tuning guidance Dudley have out, referenced somewhere above??? I’m not familiar...


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

sambone said:


> I'll sell you my new carbon PSE for $1...
> 
> OOPS- you said you wouldn't buy one even if God were on their pro staff. You could have turned around and sold it for $1400... bummer


I’ll give u $100 for it 
And be your friend [emoji83]


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> Why you have to bash a fellow archer’s opinion. If he thinks Hoyts cost too much, it’s his opinion. 1700 for a hunting bow is pretty ridiculous.... and it still weighs 4+ pounds. Too much cabling, not enough adjustability. *Old technology quite frankly. Hoyt is not keeping pace with Bowtech, Prime, Mathews, etc.
> *
> Also in my opinion, Hoyt seems more worried about their international image and foreign archers. They seem to have forgotten about good ole’Merica. And trust me when I say that Mathews has gladly stepped up its game and commitment to hunting and target shooters in the the US.
> 
> ...


I am curious specifically what Hoyt isn't keeping up with tech wise? Objectively speaking... what technologies are found in other flagship bows that aren't found in Hoyt's?

At the end of the day people shoot what they prefer but all of these bows are pretty much the same. It's all a "feel" and there isn't too much objectivity to any of these opinions. I didn't pay close to MSRP for an RX4, I actually got it cheaper than what the Mach 1 would have been, an apples to apples, carbon to carbon comparison.

All the flagship bows are awesome and packed full of tech


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

Thwapman said:


> Would anybody be able to fill me in on some possibly bad broadhead tuning guidance Dudley have out, referenced somewhere above??? I’m not familiar...


There was a video he had some years ago. It’s probably still on YouTube in which he said to move the rest the wrong direction. 


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

eilermmt said:


> I am curious specifically what Hoyt isn't keeping up with tech wise? Objectively speaking... what technologies are found in other flagship bows that aren't found in Hoyt's?
> 
> At the end of the day people shoot what they prefer but all of these bows are pretty much the same. It's all a "feel" and there isn't too much objectivity to any of these opinions. I didn't pay close to MSRP for an RX4, I actually got it cheaper than what the Mach 1 would have been, an apples to apples, carbon to carbon comparison.
> 
> All the flagship bows are awesome and packed full of tech


Agreed here! 
It’s all what feels good to each hand
But I will say I’m impressed with Prime
Left my Mathews (and a few hoyt’s) stint and got a sexy little Black 5 
I shot the new hoyts, prime weighed the same and faster. I wanted to have a reason to buy one but couldn’t find one. So Prime it is [emoji2956]

I’ve had:
Mathews Z7
Mathews Halon 32
Hoyt Carbon defiant 
Hoyt Carbon Spyder 
Hoyt carbon Spyder Fx (rare 28” ata)
Mathews Triax
Mathews Vertix

Now This









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## MAGA (Dec 31, 2019)

Woolley said:


> I don't have much of opinion on what Dudley leaving will do but in my area both major archery shops don't even carry Hoyt anymore. At one shop you can still order one but they don't keep them in stock. I know both shops got stuck with a lot of inventory that Hoyt made them buy. It went south from there.


Wow. That's crazy. Will be interesting to see what happens.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

I'll start off by saying that I have a Hoyt Hyperforce that I bought in 2018. When I compare my bow (or their newest offerings) to the new Bowtech's adjustable deadlock cams, or Elites similar system, i get depressed that I overpaid for inferior technology. I love the draw and feel of my Hyperforce, but the bow doesn't have some of the bells and whistles of the other brands.


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

BigZsquatchin said:


> Agreed here!
> It’s all what feels good to each hand
> But I will say I’m impressed with Prime
> Left my Mathews (and a few hoyt’s) stint and got a sexy little Black 5
> ...


Dude that bow is nasty (in a good way)! The aluminum on the black 5 felt about the same or lighter than the carbon in the ultra, which is insane and a testament to Prime engineering. Draw cycle is silky smooth too. Ultimately the string angle on the ultra just felt better at anchor because it's longer and the Ultra felt better after the shot to me (which is splitting hairs because after accessories they all feel the damn same). Prime made a sweet rig with that one no doubt!


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> I'll start off by saying that I have a Hoyt Hyperforce that I bought in 2018. When I compare my bow (or their newest offerings) to the new Bowtech's adjustable deadlock cams, or Elites similar system, i get depressed that I overpaid for inferior technology. I love the draw and feel of my Hyperforce, but the bow doesn't have some of the bows and whistles of the other brands.


Ok you got me there, I need a press to adjust my cam lean. Can you adjust cam timing without a press on the bowtech or elite? I am legitimately asking because I do not know the answer. But I will say I would rather take a bow timed perfectly and start my tuning there (even if that meant a little cam lean) over a bow out of time with perfectly level cams. That's just me.


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

eilermmt said:


> Dude that bow is nasty (in a good way)! The aluminum on the black 5 felt about the same or lighter than the carbon in the ultra, which is insane and a testament to Prime engineering. Draw cycle is silky smooth too. Ultimately the string angle on the ultra just felt better at anchor because it's longer and the Ultra felt better after the shot to me (which is splitting hairs because after accessories they all feel the damn same). Prime made a sweet rig with that one no doubt!


I was seriously considering RX4 ultra
I wasn’t impressed with VXR this year 
I agree also after accessories they all weigh and feel the same [emoji23]


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Hoyt makes a solid bow, it just seems as though the other leading manufactures are really stepping up their game without significantly raising prices. $1700 is a lot of money.


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> Hoyt makes a solid bow, it just seems as though the other leading manufactures are really stepping up their game without significantly raising prices. $1700 is a lot of money.


Again, aside from the cam lock technology (which is pointless IMO because you still need a press to tune a bow regardless) what specifically are the other companies doing that in your mind is "raising their games". The MSRP of the RX4 and Mach 1 (which is an apples to apples comparison) are only a part by like $100 I think, and if Hoyt is hurting the dealers will practically be giving the RX4's away for less than MSRP because stock that isn't moving is dead money. 

I'm not a Hoyt guy, the RX4 is the first and possibly only Hoyt I will ever own, who knows... But I am just trying to understand objectively how Hoyt is behind the engineering eight ball? Because they aren't. All the bows are the dang same. It's just one's OPINION, which is exactly how it should be prefaced...


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## Thundersnow (Nov 15, 2014)

Can you imagine what Dudley could get done if he went to PSE and had AT's very own PSE guy to work with... those two could change the face of archery as we know it!


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

BigZsquatchin said:


> I was seriously considering RX4 ultra
> I wasn’t impressed with VXR this year
> I agree also after accessories they all weigh and feel the same [emoji23]
> 
> ...


Same man! I wanted to like the VXR sooo badly but that draw cycle was just a little on the stiff side in my opinion. I have seen draw charts that show its' draw cycle is actually the smoothest with regards to humps and dumps in the valley, but it just didn't feel that way for me. I'm sure they will come out with a VXR 34 or 35 or some crap like that at the ATA and I will be kicking myself, but alas... haha


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Thundersnow said:


> Can you imagine what Dudley could get done if he went to PSE and had AT's very own PSE guy to work with... those two could change the face of archery as we know it!


If he went to PSE I might actually be not afraid to buy one
I really wanted to buy the evoke last year but something about it just felt cheap to me 
I thought about Mach 1 this year but no one has had one to demo yet 
At least before I got my Black 5
Won’t matter now 
Prob still wouldn’t do it 
Dudley is a beast though
He seems pretty well tuned up on some edibles in a lot of YouTube vids though lol
Has anyone else got that feeling ? He’s so damn chill and sometimes his eyes look pretty cashed [emoji2957]


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Example
He looks and acts like he’s a few little gummy bears in [emoji23]


https://youtu.be/XvgyI-Zyf-U


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

bdimaggio said:


> Hoyt makes a solid bow, it just seems as though the other leading manufactures are really stepping up their game without significantly raising prices. $1700 is a lot of money.


I’d agree with a solid bow, a good bow a best but not a great bow. I’m no pro but I’ve been in and out of the archery industry since I was 16 working in shops as a tech, coach as well as have been a bow shop owner myself. They make a good product but not great. This is where they just piss me off, they want $1100-$1200 for an aluminum bow, $1500-1700 for a Carbon. When I start building them even like my lost recent Axius Ultra. The brace height is a 1/8 off, ata nearly a whole 1/2”, draw length isn’t even close to being accurate. Thank god at least the let off was accurate and peak weight was a pleasant #2 over. However last years line up we saw a whole batch of hows with 5-6# peak weight swings under and over advertised peak weight. They just need to lace up some seriously loose factory specs. Hell even bows that are ordered as a 29” slot setting which is what most of out #2 cam bows come in aren’t even close to being timed. Cam lean is not even neutral.

I do confess that if I was going to keep this Axius it will still be ticking 10 years from now. I also know anything I throw at it will take it and keep ticking. Draw cycles are butter smooth and wonder string angles. They are hell and back reliable and can take a beating, and although I can correct most of these issues. As well as it will shoot lights out when it’s all fine tuned, I shouldn’t have to do any of these things right out of the box, weather my bow or a customers.

That’s why I really agree with your statement about other manufacturers really turning up the heat. I greatly appreciate other companies such as Mathews, PSE, Prime and Bowtech. Heck my Mathews traverse is spitting bullet holes with absolutely no adjustment to the rest, 90 degree nock height and all the specs and tolerances are accurate to a T and laced up tight. I much rather prefer a brand that runs with a cam system or a tried and true design for a few years and squeezes every ounce omg potentially and perfection ever before going to another cam design...another limb pocket design, etc, etc... 

Other brands have just really stepped up the game without inflating the dang price like Hoyt has. Heck as a Mechanical Engineer, the PSE carbon riser actually makes way more since than Hoyts not too mention it’s make here in the good old USA! 


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

eilermmt said:


> Same man! I wanted to like the VXR sooo badly but that draw cycle was just a little on the stiff side in my opinion. I have seen draw charts that show its' draw cycle is actually the smoothest with regards to humps and dumps in the valley, but it just didn't feel that way for me. I'm sure they will come out with a VXR 34 or 35 or some crap like that at the ATA and I will be kicking myself, but alas... haha


Oh don’t say that!! A 34 VXR would be perfection!!! If they did that so much for budgeting this month!!! 


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Summit3 said:


> I’d agree with a solid bow, a good bow a best but not a great bow. I’m no pro but I’ve been in and out of the archery industry since I was 16 working in shops as a tech, coach as well as have been a bow shop owner myself. They make a good product but not great. This is where they just piss me off, they want $1100-$1200 for an aluminum bow, $1500-1700 for a Carbon. When I start building them even like my lost recent Axius Ultra. The brace height is a 1/8 off, ata nearly a whole 1/2”, draw length isn’t even close to being accurate. Thank god at least the let off was accurate and peak weight was a pleasant #2 over. However last years line up we saw a whole batch of hows with 5-6# peak weight swings under and over advertised peak weight. They just need to lace up some seriously loose factory specs. Hell even bows that are ordered as a 29” slot setting which is what most of out #2 cam bows come in aren’t even close to being timed. Cam lean is not even neutral.
> 
> I do confess that if I was going to keep this Axius it will still be ticking 10 years from now. I also know anything I throw at it will take it and keep ticking. Draw cycles are butter smooth and wonder string angles. They are hell and back reliable and can take a beating, and although I can correct most of these issues. As well as it will shoot lights out when it’s all fine tuned, I shouldn’t have to do any of these things right out of the box, weather my bow or a customers.
> 
> ...


This!
My Helix had more issues than a teenage girl with bipolar on her monthly
Did we get them figured out ? Yes after 4 hours of jacking with everything 
Never had to do that with any other bow though 


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

bdimaggio said:


> Hoyt makes a solid bow, it just seems as though the other leading manufactures are really stepping up their game without significantly raising prices. $1700 is a lot of money.


You do realize Hoyt makes other bows that are significantly less than $1700 right? In fact they make the same carbon models in aluminum! People keep spitting out $1700 saying it’s too much money for a bow. Well, it is NOT THE ONLY option within the Hoyt lineup. It gets old reading all the complaining about the ridiculous cost, if you can’t afford the Carbon Premium version than get the same model in aluminum for a lot less money. 

Now, if you want to discuss whether or not that $1700 bow is worth the cost compared to other carbon bows then go for it. Or if it is worth the extra extra cost over the aluminum versions then have it. Bottom line is carbon is More Expensive to manufacture so it will always be more expensive than aluminum. People act like the $1700 bow is the only bow Hoyt offers and how stupid they must be for making such a high priced bow... don’t get it and i don’t even own a Hoyt.


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

eilermmt said:


> Same man! I wanted to like the VXR sooo badly but that draw cycle was just a little on the stiff side in my opinion. I have seen draw charts that show its' draw cycle is actually the smoothest with regards to humps and dumps in the valley, but it just didn't feel that way for me. I'm sure they will come out with a VXR 34 or 35 or some crap like that at the ATA and I will be kicking myself, but alas... haha


I’d be really surprised if they release a bigger vxr
If they release a carbon bow at ATA though I might cry as I’ve been waiting to see that day for so long 
There’s not a female celebrity under-carriage out there I’d rather look at over Mathews version of a carbon hunting bow lol


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

IVhunter said:


> bdimaggio said:
> 
> 
> > Hoyt makes a solid bow, it just seems as though the other leading manufactures are really stepping up their game without significantly raising prices. $1700 is a lot of money.
> ...


It’s how they market to much emphasis on their flagships that cost 1700 gives a perception the more affordable options are not their best


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

Summit3 said:


> I’d agree with a solid bow, a good bow a best but not a great bow. I’m no pro but I’ve been in and out of the archery industry since I was 16 working in shops as a tech, coach as well as have been a bow shop owner myself. They make a good product but not great. This is where they just piss me off, they want $1100-$1200 for an aluminum bow, $1500-1700 for a Carbon. When I start building them even like my lost recent Axius Ultra. The brace height is a 1/8 off, ata nearly a whole 1/2”, draw length isn’t even close to being accurate. Thank god at least the let off was accurate and peak weight was a pleasant #2 over. However last years line up we saw a whole batch of hows with 5-6# peak weight swings under and over advertised peak weight. They just need to lace up some seriously loose factory specs. Hell even bows that are ordered as a 29” slot setting which is what most of out #2 cam bows come in aren’t even close to being timed. Cam lean is not even neutral.
> 
> I do confess that if I was going to keep this Axius it will still be ticking 10 years from now. I also know anything I throw at it will take it and keep ticking. Draw cycles are butter smooth and wonder string angles. They are hell and back reliable and can take a beating, and although I can correct most of these issues. As well as it will shoot lights out when it’s all fine tuned, I shouldn’t have to do any of these things right out of the box, weather my bow or a customers.
> 
> ...


Well said... and legitimate concerns from experience.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

BigZsquatchin said:


> I’d be really surprised if they release a bigger vxr
> If they release a carbon bow at ATA though I might cry as I’ve been waiting to see that day for so long
> There’s not a female celebrity under-carriage out there I’d rather look at over Mathews version of a carbon hunting bow lol
> 
> ...


I’ve heavily doubt they would ever get in the carbon game. But as lights out and consistent as my Traverse is. A longer axle VXR would be a huge kick to Hoyts nuts here in the Rockies. Until the Traverse that was really what limited western sales. Everyone out here requires a longer axle bow. They do a 34 or 35 VXR and it will dominate sales out here. 

This is Hoyts back yard, their stomping grounds and we have seen a consistent growth and expansion of Prime mainly but the amount of Mathews and Bowtechs was surprising. Hoyt used to dominate this area, if they don’t get their affairs squared away they can kiss this areas dominating sales good bye. 


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Summit3 said:


> I’ve heavily doubt they would ever get in the carbon game. But as lights out and consistent as my Traverse is. A longer axle VXR would be a huge kick to Hoyts nuts here in the Rockies. Until the Traverse that was really what limited western sales. Everyone out here requires a longer axle bow. They do a 34 or 35 VXR and it will dominate sales out here.
> 
> This is Hoyts back yard, their stomping grounds and we have seen a consistent growth and expansion of Prime mainly but the amount of Mathews and Bowtechs was surprising. Hoyt used to dominate this area, if they don’t get their affairs squared away they can kiss this areas dominating sales good bye.
> 
> ...


I almost bought the Traverse
I like them a lot
Actually was going to order one in the new ambush green but the Mathews reps said we can’t get any other model in ambush except the VXR because they wanted to push the new bow
Sad 
I agree though I think there’s a lot coming from other companies
Here it’s mostly Mathews and Hoyt
Prime in pockets and a very little bit of PSE 
Prime is taking off here this year though


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

IVhunter said:


> Well said... and legitimate concerns from experience.


thanks, minus all the miss spelling. Might be good with numbers but i apparently can spell for crap!l lol!! 

On a serious note I can genuinely vouch for close to a 100 Hoyts between customers and my own in the last 4-5 years that have not been close to factory specs. Loose tolerances, countless issues with the carbon risers quality, not a finish one that lasted and some very alarming customer service responses from Hoyt. 

Just sucks because they have such potential for being am absolutely outstanding great product. Yet fall so short on such petty assembly and quality control issues. 


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

conservewild said:


> It’s how they market to much emphasis on their flagships that cost 1700 gives a perception the more affordable options are not their best



Agree it’s perception/marketing, Hoyt is saying it’s their “premium” bow and are charging accordingly. Even though there 99% of shooters may not tell the difference (accuracy wise) between the two. 

It’s up to us as consumers to weigh the cost to benefits and decide if the increase is worth it... and that debate has been going on since the Carbon debut. Fact still remains carbon is more expensive so they are going to have to charge more. Same with PSEs Carbon


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## Dooger (Jan 9, 2005)

Summit3 said:


> I’ve heavily doubt they would ever get in the carbon game. But as lights out and consistent as my Traverse is. A longer axle VXR would be a huge kick to Hoyts nuts here in the Rockies. Until the Traverse that was really what limited western sales. Everyone out here requires a longer axle bow. They do a 34 or 35 VXR and it will dominate sales out here.
> 
> This is Hoyts back yard, their stomping grounds and we have seen a consistent growth and expansion of Prime mainly but the amount of Mathews and Bowtechs was surprising. Hoyt used to dominate this area, if they don’t get their affairs squared away they can kiss this areas dominating sales good bye.
> 
> ...


Why didn’t you guys look at the Halon X???


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Dooger said:


> Why didn’t you guys look at the Halon X???


I had a halon 32
The halon series was too too heavy for my liking
Some will say they all are but I disagree
I know people that still shoot the halon x though and love them 


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## texasag2007 (Dec 31, 2019)

Based on his comments in his most recent podcast I would agree that he’s probable going with PSE or a brand that is more readily available than Bowtech or Mathews. Will be interesting to see what he announces.


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

eilermmt said:


> Again, aside from the cam lock technology (which is pointless IMO because you still need a press to tune a bow regardless) what specifically are the other companies doing that in your mind is "raising their games". The MSRP of the RX4 and Mach 1 (which is an apples to apples comparison) are only a part by like $100 I think, and if Hoyt is hurting the dealers will practically be giving the RX4's away for less than MSRP because stock that isn't moving is dead money.
> 
> I'm not a Hoyt guy, the RX4 is the first and possibly only Hoyt I will ever own, who knows... But I am just trying to understand objectively how Hoyt is behind the engineering eight ball? Because they aren't. All the bows are the dang same. It's just one's OPINION, which is exactly how it should be prefaced...


From a tuning standpoint HOYT is way behind. Just take a look at Prime - Parallel cams, flexible-adjustable roller guard, Centered grip. And they even raised the bar once again w/ the Black series by allowing adjustable letoff & draw length. Even Bowtech & Elite stepped it up this year on adjustability. Hoyt keeps beating a dead horse on the Carbon riser & seems to have hurt them in engineering that actually help the shooter. Add to that the price. There is a very small portion of shooters that are willing to pay $1600.00 for a bow & it is starting to affect Hoyt as a whole.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

George Charles said:


> From a tuning standpoint HOYT is way behind. Just take a look at Prime - Parallel cams, flexible-adjustable roller guard, Centered grip. And they even raised the bar once again w/ the Black series by allowing adjustable letoff & draw length. Even Bowtech & Elite stepped it up this year on adjustability. Hoyt keeps beating a dead horse on the Carbon riser & seems to have hurt them in engineering that actually help the shooter. Add to that the price. There is a very small portion of shooters that are willing to pay $1600.00 for a bow & it is starting to affect Hoyt as a whole.


Prime is definitely not the easiest bow to tune.


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## ecfrost (Jul 13, 2016)

Another Hoyt pro, Chris Bee, also left hoyt. He switched to Mathews recently.


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## tennpin (May 20, 2005)

I think another thing that kills hoyt they don't have a crossbow line. Like them or not they are a big sales for mathews .


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## bkwentz (Dec 2, 2019)

BigZsquatchin said:


> I’d be really surprised if they release a bigger vxr
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not as surprised as my wallet. The VXR was the first ever compound I shot. My only complaint (and only because the internet has lead me to believe it is an important measure of a bow) is the string angle. I had to shift my head slightly from where I expected to have it come to a rest during my draw. Again, I don't know if that was the bow, my form, or both - or if it even matters at all. 

I would be really tempted to jump on a 34-35" VXR.


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

bkwentz said:


> Not as surprised as my wallet. The VXR was the first ever compound I shot. My only complaint (and only because the internet has lead me to believe it is an important measure of a bow) is the string angle. I had to shift my head slightly from where I expected to have it come to a rest during my draw. Again, I don't know if that was the bow, my form, or both - or if it even matters at all.
> 
> I would be really tempted to jump on a 34-35" VXR.


Longer axle bows naturally will promote better form and posture. I put a Bomar nose button on my VXR 31.5 to help resolve that issue. Allows the head to stay more upright. Give them a look! 


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

bkwentz said:


> Not as surprised as my wallet. The VXR was the first ever compound I shot. My only complaint (and only because the internet has lead me to believe it is an important measure of a bow) is the string angle. I had to shift my head slightly from where I expected to have it come to a rest during my draw. Again, I don't know if that was the bow, my form, or both - or if it even matters at all.
> 
> I would be really tempted to jump on a 34-35" VXR.


Good stuff [emoji23][emoji23]
Wallets tend to be taken by surprise in this industry 
Even when we think we know how much we’re going to spend lmao!


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Summit3 said:


> Longer axle bows naturally will promote better form and posture. I put a Bomar nose button on my VXR 31.5 to help resolve that issue. Allows the head to stay more upright. Give them a look!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just ordered one
I didn’t like the kisser because I have full blown facial hair, but I keep my nose hairs trimmed (mostly[emoji23])


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

that whole sight mounting riser issue with the carbon RX3 last year and the denial at first was frustrating for anyone who
spent top dollar on a bow and had to deal with that...so far the reviews look really good on the RX4


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## Thundersnow (Nov 15, 2014)

ecfrost said:


> Another Hoyt pro, Chris Bee, also left hoyt. He switched to Mathews recently.


Who's that?


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## ecfrost (Jul 13, 2016)

https://www.lancasterarchery.com/pro-picks/chris-bee.html

Has a large social media/YouTube following and also has a archery business.


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## HoytHunterRX3 (May 18, 2019)

If you listen to John Dudleys podcast on Spotify all of your questions would be answered. Him and Hoyt left on GOOD terms. His contract expired and he was a free agent. Hoyt said he is welcome back at ANY time and Hoyt also has a post on their instagram and website thanking him for his 15 years of loyalty and all he’s done for the Hoyt name. John even said it was a LONG thought out process and was very emotional and hard to make the decision. If you listen to his podcast he sorta hints that he wants more freedom and has some big plans for the future. My gut feeling is he’s going to make his own signature series nock on bow or he’s going to have another company help him design it. 

Levi left Mathews for Elite and shot one of his best scores ever with their bow and then Mathews bought him back. That was 100% about money obviously. What John is doing is 100% about taking chances and testing the waters elsewhere. He has been tied down for 15 years with Hoyt. He’s developed a REALLY good name for himself now and wants to venture out and try something new. He feels he’s got the world at his fingertips and wants to put some of his ideas to test. What that is we don’t know BUT he did say he will be announcing it this week at the ATA show. So we shall see. As far as Chris Bee leaving it’s not really a shocker, i think that was 100% a money deal too. And the fact that he doesn’t come out and explain anything kinda makes me feel even more of it was a salary based decision. But no one owes us any explanations but from a professional standpoint John and Hoyt definitely seemed to part ways very mutually and it wasn’t from bad blood at all from the looks of it. Chris kinda just dropped a bomb and left out of the blue. It woulda been nice to see him say thank you to Hoyt and hear some sort of a story for his decision but it’s his life not ours. Either way I don’t think Hoyt is going anywhere. They have been around since 1931. Pretty sure they are the oldest bow company still around even older than Bear. 

Regardless, Hoyt does need to go back to the drawing board and come up with long term visions cause their bows aren’t getting any cheaper and people are gonna start shopping elsewhere. I love my Hoyts. However, I’m not sure I’m gonna keep dropping $1600 every year in a new bow I’d like to start a family here in a little while and get married. So the funds won’t be around for these toys forever. It’s gonna get old fast dropping $1600 every year. They don’t pay me a dime to shoot their bows. I speak highly of them and love to shoot them as i shoot them very well. However Mathews will be finding it’s way onto the rack here shortly. That VXR and RX-4 were just too close so i had to get both. The RX-4 order is in. I’ll be picking up a VXR after that one comes in. I hope Hoyt has some big plans. They do need to do something about their customer service dept. though. I hear horror stories of rude and ridiculous lack of respect customer service from some people who’ve had to warranty something. If you’re charging people $1600 for a bow you better stand behind it and back it up. I’ve shot Hoyt bows ALL my life. I’ve never owned anything other than Hoyt. They’ve been good to me and I’ve never had any issues. But that doesn’t mean I’m not trying other brands to see what each company has to offer. I shoot what feels good. For the past 12 years that’s been a Hoyt. That VXR and RX-4 felt gold to me. Next year will be interesting to say the least. 

As for John he’s a smart and very talented respectable guy. He’s got Hoyt to fall back on by the sound of it. The ATA show will be interesting to say the least.


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

George Charles said:


> From a tuning standpoint HOYT is way behind. Just take a look at Prime - Parallel cams, flexible-adjustable roller guard, Centered grip. And they even raised the bar once again w/ the Black series by allowing adjustable letoff & draw length. Even Bowtech & Elite stepped it up this year on adjustability. Hoyt keeps beating a dead horse on the Carbon riser & seems to have hurt them in engineering that actually help the shooter. Add to that the price. There is a very small portion of shooters that are willing to pay $1600.00 for a bow & it is starting to affect Hoyt as a whole.


I could really careless where Dudley goes and hope he does well. 

I do fill led to call out completely false info thou. 
You are so far off base in your post. 
It’s quite easy to prove Hoyt’s new cam system is every bit as forgiving to spine ranges and to tuning than any other system out there. 




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## junglerecon (Feb 17, 2019)

PSE page says expect something huge at ATA show this year. If that’s in line with dudley’s “something huge at ATA” they may be teaming up on something. 


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## 1KNIGHT (Dec 1, 2011)

From PSE’s website...






HUGE NEWS COMING FROM PSE AT 2020 ATA
By PSE Archery Posted January 3, 2020 In Blog
0
Stay tuned to PSEArchery.com and our social media channels for huge and important announcements that will be happening at the 2020 Archery Trade Association in Indianapolis, Thursday, January 9, 2020. Here is our announcement schedule:

Thursday, 930AM Eastern Time
Thursday, 1PM Eastern Time
We’ll have HUGE news that you will not want to miss – products, people and so much more!

Click to bookmark our Facebook page now!

2020 is more than just our 50th anniversary year – it’s the year PSE redefines the archery industry on every level.

See you Thursday!


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

I don't follow these celebrities and have no clue to who Dudley is. I understand it is marketing and sales is the goal. But a lot of people believe everything these celebrities say. When a celebrity pushed and endorses a bow brand and people buy into the hype, then the celebrity switches brands, it really hurts their credibility. People feel abandoned and loose the trust they had in that celebrity. So switching brands can be a set back for both the company and the celebrity.


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## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

fletched said:


> I don't follow these celebrities and have no clue to who Dudley is. I understand it is marketing and sales is the goal. But a lot of people believe everything these celebrities say. When a celebrity pushed and endorses a bow brand and people buy into the hype, then the celebrity switches brands, it really hurts their credibility. People feel abandoned and loose the trust they had in that celebrity. So switching brands can be a set back for both the company and the celebrity.


I don’t think so. Dudley has shot for Hoyt for quite a while. He seems to be genuinely more interested in teaching and being able to help out as many people as possible. I listened to his recent podcast, and he talked about wanting to review other bows and all kinds of gear, and Hoyt basically saying they can’t let him do that while they have a contract with him. My guess is, PSE said do what you want to do, just keep shooting a PSE. 


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

BigZsquatchin said:


> I’d be really surprised if they release a bigger vxr
> If they release a carbon bow at ATA though I might cry as I’ve been waiting to see that day for so long
> There’s not a female celebrity under-carriage out there I’d rather look at over Mathews version of a carbon hunting bow lol
> 
> ...


I think it’s almost a guarantee that there’s a longer VXR in the works. Carbon will be a big fat no. Not enough interest overall for that. 

As far as sponsors and celebrities go, I don’t care at all. I won’t buy something that has some other dudes name on it and their endorsement doesn’t do anything to sway me.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Summit3 said:


> I’ve heavily doubt they would ever get in the carbon game. But as lights out and consistent as my Traverse is. A longer axle VXR would be a huge kick to Hoyts nuts here in the Rockies. Until the Traverse that was really what limited western sales. Everyone out here requires a longer axle bow. They do a 34 or 35 VXR and it will dominate sales out here.
> 
> This is Hoyts back yard, their stomping grounds and we have seen a consistent growth and expansion of Prime mainly but the amount of Mathews and Bowtechs was surprising. Hoyt used to dominate this area, if they don’t get their affairs squared away they can kiss this areas dominating sales good bye.
> 
> ...


That’s a big 10-4!


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Q2DEATH said:


> I think it’s almost a guarantee that there’s a longer VXR in the works. Carbon will be a big fat no. Not enough interest overall for that.
> 
> As far as sponsors and celebrities go, I don’t care at all. I won’t buy something that has some other dudes name on it and their endorsement doesn’t do anything to sway me.



I agree on the endorsement
I’ve always strayed away from bone collector or cam hanes signature bows

As far as a longer VXR 
They will eventually have to replace the traverse with something yes? I guess we will see in a few days. 

Carbon...
Not enough overall interest? 
I’ve heard a lot of talk about it
More in person I suppose, not everyone that shoots a bow gets on here. 
Time will tell
I can tell u though that they have a patent In the works for a hybrid carbon bow 
Don’t believe me ?









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ash (Oct 21, 2013)

Ok I have read pretty much this whole thread so I bear with me lol 

Firstly, I think PSE is on a huge rise right now. I've heard nothing but great things about the new NXT bows and I think that would be a great move for both PSE and Dudley. 

On another note, i do think Hoyt is falling behind and also losing loyalty and pros left and right. I've seen A LOT less Hoyt jerseys lately on CAM (Competition Archery Media) and a lot more Mathews. 

As for my personal bow interests, I'm liking Prime bows lately but I have heard they are harder to tune but shoot great and are crazy balanced and smooth. I shot both the CT3 and CT5 last year and was super impressed. However, that is from me shooting a Bear Arena 34 for a few years now. 

Which leads me to my final thought that Bear is very absent from this conversation and not that I think they're the greatest bow out there just because I own one but they've been stepping up their game in the last couple years with the Perception and this year coming out with the let off adjustable EKO cam and the slightly gimmicky level bubble built in, but they're definitely trying more so than Hoyt.


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## Dooger (Jan 9, 2005)

BigZ, they should have marketed the HalonX as a hunting bow. Instead, it was tucked away on their webpage and not many even knew about it. They need a 34-35” hunting/crossover bow in their line up at all times. I won’t buy anything under 33” and prefer 34”+.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

BigZsquatchin said:


> I agree on the endorsement
> I’ve always strayed away from bone collector or cam hanes signature bows
> 
> As far as a longer VXR
> ...


I’m not surprised to see a patent on one. I’m sure they’ve designed something. You’d almost have to just in the interest of making sure your business continues to grow and don’t get left behind. Still, I would be surprised if they actually brought one to market. But, I guess we’ll see.

As far as a longer VXR I think it will be next year.

The Halon X was nice but compared to my chill x well, there was no comparison.

To make sure we stay on topic, what’s Hoyt gonna do if Fred Eichler leaves?


----------



## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Dooger said:


> BigZ, they should have marketed the HalonX as a hunting bow. Instead, it was tucked away on their webpage and not many even knew about it. They need a 34-35” hunting/crossover bow in their line up at all times. I won’t buy anything under 33” and prefer 34”+.


Agreed
If I knew about it when I got the 32 I would’ve got the x


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## leftee (Nov 15, 2005)

Like Dudley.Don't buy the 'Hex' thing but like him and who he hangs out with.Positive.
PSE makes sense but I suspect it's much more.Likely developmental.His own 'line' of bows perhaps.Much bigger deal than we think.
Betting great for him,the company and archery in general.


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## Ncturkeycaller (Oct 13, 2008)

eilermmt said:


> Same man! I wanted to like the VXR sooo badly but that draw cycle was just a little on the stiff side in my opinion. I have seen draw charts that show its' draw cycle is actually the smoothest with regards to humps and dumps in the valley, but it just didn't feel that way for me. I'm sure they will come out with a VXR 34 or 35 or some crap like that at the ATA and I will be kicking myself, but alas... haha


Try the rx4... I know Hoyt is going to be out of business in a few years with Dudley and that Bee girl leaving but its worth a try. I had a vxr and ended up with the rx4 an dits the best thing ive done! I never never never like short bows but I love this one!


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

fletched said:


> I don't follow these celebrities and have no clue to who Dudley is. .


Another, “I don’t know who this is, but this my opinion of him” post.


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## George Charles (Oct 18, 2012)

ontarget7 said:


> I could really careless where Dudley goes and hope he does well.
> 
> I do fill led to call out completely false info thou.
> You are so far off base in your post.
> ...


https://youtu.be/ItB9vVdxhe4

With the Era of Social Media & Internet searches reveal videos such as the 1 above (Archer1941) & shows like John Dudleys have changed the definition of tunibility. It isn't the matter of just twisting strings to get a good paper tear anymore. It is about the bow as a whole. Eliminating issues that are a design factor, such as cam lean, grip torque, & balance have been brought to the surface by some of these Manufacturers & Hoyt is at the bottom of that list. Add in Hoyt's cosmetic flaws over the years have definitely played a role also. I would take a gamble & say over 50% of bows purchased today are search online before ever walking into a Pro Shop.


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

Ncturkeycaller said:


> Try the rx4... I know Hoyt is going to be out of business in a few years with Dudley and that Bee girl leaving but its worth a try. I had a vxr and ended up with the rx4 an dits the best thing ive done! I never never never like short bows but I love this one!


I bought the RX4 Ultra the same day I went and tried the VXR. Shot all the major brands back to back and the RX4 felts the best to me w/ Prime being a close second. After that none of the others were really very close. And that is coming from PSE and really wanting to like the Mach 1 AND also really wanting to like the VXR cause in the ambush green it may be the sexiest bow I've ever seen. Initially the RX4 was uglier than sin to me, but it has since grown on me haha


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

eilermmt said:


> I bought the RX4 Ultra the same day I went and tried the VXR. Shot all the major brands back to back and the RX4 felts the best to me w/ Prime being a close second. After that none of the others were really very close. And that is coming from PSE and really wanting to like the Mach 1 AND also really wanting to like the VXR cause in the ambush green it may be the sexiest bow I've ever seen. Initially the RX4 was uglier than sin to me, but it has since grown on me haha


did you shoot the Mach 1? what did you not like about it ?


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

bigbucks170 said:


> did you shoot the Mach 1? what did you not like about it ?


I did shoot the Mach 1. Loved the look and vib after shot of the bow, although those are admittedly low on my list of factors when decided because to me, after accessories all bows feel about the same after the shot or at least similar. It is super super light weight. The draw cycle was nice but felt a tad stiffer than the Hoyt and Prime to me and had a smidge more of a dump into the valley. The valley was smaller and you could tell the bow wanted to go (although not a bad thing in my opinion either). I'm taller so I found myself leaning significantly more to get to anchor due to string angle. It being lighter made pin float a bit more difficult to control as well, which is very fixable with stabs and accessories adding weight. 

I'm sure had I bought that bow I would have been happy as well, but to me the RX4 Ultra just felt better. The Mach 1 is significantly lighter though however!


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

yeah with it being faster than the RX4 guessing thats why it felt stiffer to draw ....you expect a Carbon bow to be light, the biggest reason most people buy Carbon bows, but that is not always the case it seems ..so string angle and too stiff draw and too light
weight kept you from liking the bow you wanted to like ....hey thanks for your honest opinion I was very curious as I have one
on order .....Congrats on your Rx4 they look sharp


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## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

4IDARCHER said:


> This will be the last post on the subject I will try to do for a while. I was going to wait until John announces where he is going and his future plans before I wrote anything because I know there will probably be a lot of questions and clarification wanted as all the information comes out. All of that is John’s to tell not mine but thought I could maybe help out a bit in getting the word out on some of the points he covered on the podcast a bit and why he decided to partner with some new companies going forward. This post will quickly get lost in the sauce of this and the upcoming threads that will be posted but that is how forums work, with so few anymore reading through what others wrote before posting.
> 
> First, this move was NOT about money. Sure there was money involved but there was a lot of money from all the bow companies as they would all like to have Dudley on their staff. This move was about opportunities to really help and make huge changes in the archery community. There is so much cool stuff coming in the months ahead that it will absolutely blow the mind of any serious archer. Opportunities to connect and interact with archery and Bowhunting companies on a level consumers never have before. John will be able to act as the liaison between the companies and the consumers in an amazing way.
> 
> ...



Cool. 

John is an Ambassador of Archery/Bowhunting in my opinion. The way he shares his knowledge for all to benefit from is Outstanding in this day and age is almost unheard of. 

My guess is PSE. It doesn’t matter to me what he shoots. I just enjoy learning from him. I have shot for over thirty years and his instructions can help fix things that come up. I really enjoy his podcasts as well. One day I hope to shoot a TAC with him. 

Now on to Hoyt. I loved the Carbon Element I had shot it for 7 years. I really wanted the RX 3. But the day I went to order it something came up so it took me another week to try. However in that week all the info came out about the sight mount issues on the risers and the fix in the end was A 15 DOLLAR PIECE OF PLASTIC......on a 1500 hundred dollar bow. 

Seriously? It drove me nuts. And because of the way that all unfolded I bought a new Mathews Traverse. Touch heavy but with the new grip is a great bow. 

Then again the Hoyt carbon isnt light anymore either. I hope Hoyt fixes some of their issues. 

But I’m very excited for Dudley and it will be cool to see what he brings to the table in the years to come. He continues to grow the sport, we should all be happy with that.


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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

bigbucks170 said:


> yeah with it being faster than the RX4 guessing thats why it felt stiffer to draw ....you expect a Carbon bow to be light, the biggest reason most people buy Carbon bows, but that is not always the case it seems ..so string angle and too stiff draw and too light
> weight kept you from liking the bow you wanted to like ....hey thanks for your honest opinion I was very curious as I have one
> on order .....Congrats on your Rx4 they look sharp


Thanks man! It isn't that it was TOO light, it's simply that it didn't hold as well, which I felt had something to do with the weight. I think the RX4 Ultra and Mach 1 IBO at the same speeds. I think just the longer ATA suited me better


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

eilermmt said:


> Thanks man! It isn't that it was TOO light, it's simply that it didn't hold as well, which I felt had something to do with the weight. I think the RX4 Ultra and Mach 1 IBO at the same speeds. I think just the longer ATA suited me better[/QUOTE
> 
> I understand the ATA...but IBO and real world speed are very Different ..I think you could have dropped the Mach 1 draw weight
> down 5-8 lbs and still shot the same speed as RX4 ...but if it didn't hold well for you thats going to be a problem no doubt


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## rbeckwith (Mar 24, 2009)

nightvision said:


> He will be fine and so will Hoyt. MYbe they’ll drop the price of the RX4 by $500.00 LOL


This!


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## ytailfreak (Feb 13, 2010)

This was on PSE’s 2020 tune chart this morning. It has been removed now.










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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

ytailfreak said:


> This was on PSE’s 2020 tune chart this morning. It has been removed now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well played!


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

BigZsquatchin said:


> Well played!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol.....whoops!


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

ytailfreak said:


> This was on PSE’s 2020 tune chart this morning. It has been removed now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the "HUGE" announcement they have planned for Thur at the ATA show that I received an email about. Not so "HUGE" IMO but hey, they need to drum up some excitement I guess.


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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Who cares what people shoot. Shoot what you dig. Only hacks like Joe Rogan will follow the "cool" kids that loser. I have 4 Hoyts but have recently sold my Hyperforce and got a VXR.. why? Cuz I wanted to. Not cuz Hoyt sucks or anything. 

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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

fishingolf said:


> Who cares what people shoot. Shoot what you dig. Only hacks like Joe Rogan will follow the "cool" kids that loser. I have 4 Hoyts but have recently sold my Hyperforce and got a VXR.. why? Cuz I wanted to. Not cuz Hoyt sucks or anything.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


 hacks like joe Rogan? You may not like him but he does more to promote archery and accomplishes more in a year than you will in your entire life.


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## pmanning (Jan 3, 2020)

fishingolf said:


> Who cares what people shoot. Shoot what you dig. Only hacks like Joe Rogan will follow the "cool" kids that loser. I have 4 Hoyts but have recently sold my Hyperforce and got a VXR.. why? Cuz I wanted to. Not cuz Hoyt sucks or anything.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


Well Said!


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## Boilerman86 (Jan 23, 2017)

Ash said:


> On another note, i do think Hoyt is falling behind and also losing loyalty and pros left and right. I've seen A LOT less Hoyt jerseys lately on CAM (Competition Archery Media) and a lot more Mathews.



Turns out, when you pay a pro more money, they will sign with you. I don't think it has nearly as much to do with loyalty as it does that Mathews simply pays more/better contingency money than Hoyt. 

All I know is that Hoyt's feel better to me than any other bow I've ever shot. Other people hate them, and that's ok! There should be competition and variety. Hoyt found success with the Tec riser and 5LL limbs (which BTW should be the industry standard. My wife dry fired her old Hoyt and there was 0 unfixable damage to the limbs/cams). Last I checked, Hoyt bows are in/win major tournaments, especially spot shooting like World Archery, Vegas, NFAA. 

3D is dominated by Mathews. Guess why? They pay the most. It's really as simple as that IMO


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## Thundersnow (Nov 15, 2014)

But, but, but that's not fair... salary caps or competition is meaningless!


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

fishingolf said:


> Who cares what people shoot. Shoot what you dig. Only hacks like Joe Rogan will follow the "cool" kids that loser. I have 4 Hoyts but have recently sold my Hyperforce and got a VXR.. why? Cuz I wanted to. Not cuz Hoyt sucks or anything.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


Yea a hack worth over 20 million. Sounds like a hack to me. Dude your jealous.......go cry somewhere. Jerkoff


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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Ha... Jerk off? Joe Rogan is a sycophant with no opinion of his own. 

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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

....and it was at this point in the story boys and girls that the thread took a nose dive. 


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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Sounds like you are the one crying over my comment. 

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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

...


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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Summit3 said:


> ....and it was at this point in the story boys and girls that the thread took a nose dive.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will give you that. 

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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

conservewild said:


> hacks like joe Rogan? You may not like him but he does more to promote archery and accomplishes more in a year than you will in your entire life.


How do you know what I've accomplised? If your life has been affected by Joe Rogan and his pod casts, that's pretty sad. 

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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

fishingolf said:


> conservewild said:
> 
> 
> > hacks like joe Rogan? You may not like him but he does more to promote archery and accomplishes more in a year than you will in your entire life.
> ...


 I can tell it’s not much based on your comments your a stereotypical hater tries to make themself feel better by attacking others


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

fishingolf said:


> How do you know what I've accomplised? If your life has been affected by Joe Rogan and his pod casts, that's pretty sad.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


His podcast are incredibly informational and Im healthier and in better shape for it. How is that sad? Seems like youre just here to troll and get under peoples skin...


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

fishingolf said:


> conservewild said:
> 
> 
> > hacks like joe Rogan? You may not like him but he does more to promote archery and accomplishes more in a year than you will in your entire life.
> ...


Maybe you should take a listen once in awhile. He has some very inspiring guests and you might actually learn something about the world around you.


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Damn it used to be true that bow hunters or hunters in general for the most part came together as one and worked together
Now the hate consumes
How long til the red tree mammal shuts this one down?
I guess I’ve played my part in one shutdown to silence an idiot but that has shed some light also because we get left to wonder how did it get to that point? At what point did this become more important than looking at our son or daughters drawing? Or walking our dog? Jogging with the wife?



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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

I don’t post a lot on this website. But spend plenty of time on it. This is why..

When I started this thread I was just trying to comment that losing Dudley was a loss to Hoyt.... in terms MARKETING. I wasn’t saying that hoyt is a garbage company or that it’s going out of business. I wasn’t saying how good or bad Dudley is. I wasn’t asking whether or not you personally care about Dudley or any online personalities. 


This thread really wound up in the weeds. It amazing so many people feel the need to argue with random strangers on the internet.


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

Ar56903 said:


> I don’t post a lot on this website. But spend plenty of time on it. This is why..
> 
> When I started this thread I was just trying to comment that losing Dudley was a loss to Hoyt.... in terms MARKETING. I wasn’t saying that hoyt is a garbage company or that it’s going out of business. I wasn’t saying how good or bad Dudley is. I wasn’t asking whether or not you personally care about Dudley or any online personalities.
> 
> ...


Your right... My bad.


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## Diver160651 (Sep 24, 2019)

For the most part this is a great thread. The fact that we all know who JD is why companies benefit from strategic partnerships. 

Either way we are talking about Hoyt. For what it is worth, I shoot a Mathew’s.. Loved the PSE I shot; but in the end the PSE box store association in my head, might have played a roll in why I didn’t buy one.

Sure I am admitting I am not impervious to marketing; I wish I was, but a large number of us are not either.

BTW I am in the C suite Sales Space and my wife is a exec in Marketing.. all the more ironic that I can be influenced..

Just my world.. 


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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

Diver160651 said:


> For the most part this is a great thread. The fact that we all know who JD is why companies benefit from strategic partnerships.
> 
> Either way we are talking about Hoyt. For what it is worth, I shoot a Mathew’s.. Loved the PSE I shot; but in the end the PSE box store association in my head, might have played a roll in why I didn’t buy one.
> 
> ...



I’m definitely susceptible to marketing as well. I think Dudley has a very interesting, if not unintentional way of marketing. He puts out tons of videos on how to use products. This makes people, like myself, want to use the product because I get so much free coaching and technical help to go along with it. 

He didn’t sell me hecs yet.. but definitely sold me on some products. I think a company is lucky to have him and inversely will feel it if they lose him.


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## Ash (Oct 21, 2013)

Boilerman86 said:


> Ash said:
> 
> 
> > On another note, i do think Hoyt is falling behind and also losing loyalty and pros left and right. I've seen A LOT less Hoyt jerseys lately on CAM (Competition Archery Media) and a lot more Mathews.
> ...


I definitely won't disagree with pros going for more money and I don't think Hoyts are bad by any means. I've owned a few and they were solid bows. However I still don't think they are keeping up with the technology, adjustability, and tunability advances of the other big archery companies out there. And the other smaller companies are quickly catching up.


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## Retam223 (Jan 7, 2020)

*What’s up with hoyt? Legend has it the guy who posted this has an intimate relationsh*

Legend has it that the guy who created this thread has an intimate relationship with the John Dudley the legend himself. 
#epsteindidntkillhimself


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## Daave (Jul 22, 2005)

There are only two ways to get Hoyt back on top.

1. Completely new riser design. Get rid of that decades old weird tec risor crap.

2. Make a hunting bow out of aluminum that is over 340ibo for under a grand.

Oh almost forgot....don't allow cam hanes to shoot them. He is literally annoying. He is the wimpy nerd that everyone picked on in school now he's tough blah blah...annoying.

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## Thundersnow (Nov 15, 2014)

Hoyt: "Who is AT?"

AT: "I can't believe you had the gull to just ask me that..."

Hoyt: "K"

AT: "Wait... don't you want me tell you how to run your bissiness and point out imagicanary problims?"

Hoyt: "No thanks"

AT: ..... ...... "whatever"... .... "your draw length is too long"


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## gregcoya (May 9, 2009)

Thundersnow said:


> Hoyt: "Who is AT?"
> 
> AT: "I can't believe you had the gull to just ask me that..."
> 
> ...


LOL. I met John Dudley and thought he was a genuine guy. I don't shoot hoyt or buy HECS because of him. I just like his videos and like the fact he loves to teach and hunt...


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## reverendherring (Nov 2, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/155107877878547/posts/2677805892275387/?substory_index=0&sfnsn=mo

Hoyt surely is struggling.


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

reverendherring said:


> https://www.facebook.com/155107877878547/posts/2677805892275387/?substory_index=0&sfnsn=mo
> 
> Hoyt surely is struggling.


Look at the guy in the middles face
The one with the biggest check
He’s got that look like “man I hope this thing cashes” 
[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

John Dudley will always be a better shot than me... 

and Jeffrey Epstein still did not kill himself


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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Kyle_Ensley said:


> Maybe you should take a listen once in awhile. He has some very inspiring guests and you might actually learn something about the world around you.


Thanks for the tip but I'm doing fine in life wo JRs words of wisdom. I will say this, I do like all his guests. 

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


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## trucker3573 (Feb 14, 2010)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



fishingolf said:


> Thanks for the tip but I'm doing fine in life wo JRs words of wisdom. I will say this, I do like all his guests.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


No doubt.....I don’t even know who JR is (joe rogan?)but I can assure that his podcast wouldn’t be at the top of my list for learning about the world. 


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

sambone said:


> john dudley will always be a better shot than me...
> 
> And jeffrey epstein still did not kill himself


lol!


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## Rhino8124 (Jan 29, 2017)

sambone said:


> John Dudley will always be a better shot than me...
> 
> and Jeffrey Epstein still did not kill himself


This is the only 100% truthful thing written on the internet.


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

tmead said:


> Another, “I don’t know who this is, but this my opinion of him” post.


I didn't give my opinion on him, just my opinion on hunting celebrities as a whole. Anytime a person is sponsored, it will influence their opinions on certain products. If a person wants to give a credible opinion on a product, they can't be under the power of any sponsorship. There are conditions to being under a sponsorship.


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## niccernicus (Nov 30, 2015)

sneak1413 said:


> I believe the bow rack and Cam have setup most of Joe's bows I would not be surprised if Joe Rogan stays with hoyt and everything else he shoots. Him and Cam are pretty tight. But then again I don't follow any of them closely.


I think Joe is getting bows straight from Hoyt at this point, and John is setting them up for him. Joe has even mentioned getting bows straight from Hoyt for his friends (Brian Callen). I doubt the Bow Rack is involved outside of that one video with Cam from back in the day.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

niccernicus said:


> sneak1413 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the bow rack and Cam have setup most of Joe's bows I would not be surprised if Joe Rogan stays with hoyt and everything else he shoots. Him and Cam are pretty tight. But then again I don't follow any of them closely.
> ...


Rogan only likes Hoyt because it’s likely all he has ever shot I’m guessing he will shoot Dudley’s new bow unless he individually gets sponsored


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## trucker3573 (Feb 14, 2010)

trucker3573 said:


> No doubt.....I don’t even know who JR is (joe rogan?)but I can assure that his podcast wouldn’t be at the top of my list for learning about the world.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Actually I stand corrected. It was late when I posted that and I forgot he was the guy that encouraged people to eat nasty things to win a game and then became the expert on people that beat the snot out of each other. Definitely a teacher to learn about the world from. Will have to start listening. 


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

trucker3573 said:


> trucker3573 said:
> 
> 
> > No doubt.....I don’t even know who JR is (joe rogan?)but I can assure that his podcast wouldn’t be at the top of my list for learning about the world.
> ...


Yea, its called mixed martial arts, which is a mixture of wrestling, striking, and submissions. Also teaches discipline and some of the kindest people happen to be skilled martial artists.


Also, Epstein didn't kill himself


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## Buckhorn70 (Dec 5, 2004)

trucker3573 said:


> Actually I stand corrected. It was late when I posted that and I forgot he was the guy that encouraged people to eat nasty things to win a game and then became the expert on people that beat the snot out of each other. Definitely a teacher to learn about the world from. Will have to start listening.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don’t believe Rogan thinks he is super smart or some kind of hero.... but he does have interesting guest on his show with very interesting/some times educational conversations. A lot of his audience is probably non-hunters or even anti-hunters. He does his best to educate that part of the public on why people hunt and he does it in a positive light. Very good representative for hunting/hunters and has a huge audience. Now he does have some goof ball guest and all they do is cut up and laugh sometimes, but that’s OK too. He is a friend and a great spokesperson for hunters.

Now.... he is best buds with Dudley and Cam Hanes. So he learned from them and probably shares a lot of their views as they are an influence on him. Nothing wrong with that. That’s why he probably uses a lot of the equipment/brands they use. 

You don’t have to like Rogan but don’t hate on him as he represents us hunters to a very large audience(that doesn’t agree with hunting) that we can’t get to.....


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## CareyHamil (Oct 4, 2005)

ontarget7 said:


> Followers is one thing. Turning those followers into purchases is another.
> I feel social media can be way misleading. Most guys that have money to spend are working hard at it and don’t have time for all that stuff.
> You would be very surprised since most the followers can’t afford the product being pushed.
> 
> ...


According to bigGPs podcast, vertical bow sale don’t happen in shops anymore. Social media may have a huge impact on that. 


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## vjoe911 (May 30, 2011)

I here hes going to PSE BEE went to Mathews but Hoyt is not going Anywhere


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## vjoe911 (May 30, 2011)

You got to remember this is what these people do for a living they go where the money is. Just like you at your job if someone down the street offered you $10 more a hour to do the same job and benefits what would you do ????


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## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

I only read the first page... you guys realize 99% of bow hunters dont even know who Dudley is? I really dont, and only knkw the name from AT.. you realize 99% of archers dont log onto AT.

You know what 99% of archers do care about, price tags... if cutting Dudley or these other “celebrities” means lower price points, I bet 99% of the archers dont give a crap who sponsors this Dudley guy.


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## vjoe911 (May 30, 2011)

EJP1234 said:


> I only read the first page... you guys realize 99% of bow hunters dont even know who Dudley is? I really dont, and only knkw the name from AT.. you realize 99% of archers dont log onto AT.
> 
> You know what 99% of archers do care about, price tags... if cutting Dudley or these other “celebrities” means lower price points, I bet 99% of the archers dont give a crap who sponsors this Dudley guy.


Your wrong in the archery community tons of people know who John Dudley is he's great archery instructor I personally learned how to set up and tune a bow from his videos on YOUTUBE and Talked to at a shoot super nice guy willing to help anybody


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

EJP1234 said:


> I only read the first page... you guys realize 99% of bow hunters dont even know who Dudley is? I really dont, and only knkw the name from AT.. you realize 99% of archers dont log onto AT.
> 
> You know what 99% of archers do care about, price tags... if cutting Dudley or these other “celebrities” means lower price points, I bet 99% of the archers dont give a crap who sponsors this Dudley guy.


I agree with this in terms of ALOT of archers and hunters don’t get on AT or other forums
They shoot their bows.
Some people on here act like everyone that’s in the sport sees this or contributes
We’re a very small piece of the pie 
I personally know 11 other guys that don’t get on here but are successful archers and hunters. 




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## jmike00 (Jan 6, 2018)

vjoe911 said:


> You got to remember this is what these people do for a living they go where the money is. Just like you at your job if someone down the street offered you $10 more a hour to do the same job and benefits what would you do ????


Yes but it’s been noticeable over the last year or so Dudley’s usual enthusiasm for Hoyt products didn’t seem what it used to be. For me it’s hard to stomach it’s just a pay raise. Im not going to toot a horn and say “I called it” but I do remember at some point this year thinking it felt like he’s about to leave Hoyt. Two years ago I would have said as long as Hoyt would match the competition he’d stay. Hell I might have even believed he’d stay with them for less than other offers. Present day however if I were to have learned it wasn’t only a financial decision I’d say “makes sense”. Great thing about Dudley is he has a history of shooting somewhat straight. He may not confirm if this was pure a financial decision but if any part of it had to do with the products themselves he may at least least touch on it.


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## Spencer121 (Nov 22, 2017)

Hoyt still has a much bigger social media presence than any other brand. Definitely a big blow though


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## Thwapman (Apr 2, 2012)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



dbow said:


> There are only two ways to get Hoyt back on top.
> 
> 1. Completely new riser design. Get rid of that decades old weird tec risor crap.
> 
> ...


My dad passed away in 2009, and Joes podcasts are basically my dad now. But I’ll mail you $1000 the next time Cam says anything I find interesting.

Isn’t running that vertical beam back off the riser a damn good way to stiffen it up?


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## Wayner273 (Jun 12, 2015)

Hope he doesn't jump off a bridge..


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## Bassattackr (Oct 23, 2009)

Wayner273 said:


> Hope he doesn't jump off a bridge..


Right?? The drama on these threads kill me..


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## Ellabellaboxer (Oct 13, 2018)

Hoyt will be fine when Levi went over to Elite Mathews still sold tons of bows.Now Levi is back with Mathews and Elite is still selling bows so don't worry Hoyt will be around for many years to come.


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## joon1911 (Nov 4, 2019)

The thing is there’s a lot more nuance to the subject. Dudley didn’t bash Hoyt, quite the opposite, he claims his reason for not renewing with Hoyt had everything about growing his own Nock On brand which I believe is true. Is this the unalloyed truth? No one but Dudley probably knows. 

There’s a reason that Hoyt builds and sells a LOT of bows. Lots of people think they’re great. The biggest complaint I see is mostly that some people perceive Hoyt’s price point as too expensive. To each their own. 

Dudley’s podcast seemed quite sincere that he parted with Hoyt on very good terms. Dudley seems to be a pretty genuine character. Been listening to his podcast and social media for several years. Maybe Hoyt will see an impact, but I suspect it won’t be that big and Hoyt will bounce back.


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## Reberly (Nov 11, 2018)

Boogan1 said:


> Since Hoyt is one of the oldest bow companies in existence I seriously doubt losing some "celebrity" shooter is going to have much influence on their bottom line. Those "celebrity" shooter are a dime a dozen, one falls and ten more take their place. I remember when a staff shooter actually did things to help develop and test the new bows and products not just spout whatever opinion they are paid to parrot. I don't know how many I have seen over the years that were "THE" guy for a hot minute only to fade away into obscurity and replaced by the next ten "THE" guys.


Ok, Boomer


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Reberly said:


> Ok, Boomer


 “Ok,Boomer”? Seriously bud are we 15? 


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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

🙄 anyone know how to delete a thread...lol


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Ar56903 said:


> &#55357;&#56900; anyone know how to delete a thread...lol


Thats hilarious.. bet you never expected it would turn into this lol sorry man ..I feel a little silly about my part in this thread


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Hoyt let Dudley go so that they could make room in hopes they could sign me. Too bad for Hoyt I'm a maverick and will evermore be a free agent!

My 24 Instagram followers are pretty disappointed, I'm sure. 

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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

bigbucks170 said:


> Thats hilarious.. bet you never expected it would turn into this lol sorry man ..I feel a little silly about my part in this thread


It’s not just Archery Talk my friend, try checking out a automotive or firearm forum. It’s even worse. It always starts out friendly as it should then all it take is “that one guy” to take a crap on the thread. We have forgotten to offer constructive criticism with being offended by others views. Guys start bashing personalities or people in the industry. Then arguments begin and before we know it we have declined into the most childish of insults. 

The main thing we have forgotten is to treat all our conversations as if they were done in person, some guys have absolutely no integrity to watch what they say. As my cousin who was a green beret always says. “We now live in a society where a man is no longer afraid of getting popped in the mouth for saying something offensive” 

Sorry it reduced into yet again another dumpster fire. 


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## ironworker172 (Feb 12, 2012)

Like a bunch of women I tell ya! 15 pages because some celebrity is leaving Hoyt! Must be a boring winter!


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## straightedge123 (Nov 2, 2007)

Summit3 said:


> It’s not just Archery Talk my friend, try checking out a automotive or firearm forum. It’s even worse. It always starts out friendly as it should then all it take is “that one guy” to take a crap on the thread. We have forgotten to offer constructive criticism with being offended by others views. Guys start bashing personalities or people in the industry. Then arguments begin and before we know it we have declined into the most childish of insults.
> 
> The main thing we have forgotten is to treat all our conversations as if they were done in person, some guys have absolutely no integrity to watch what they say. As my cousin who was a green beret always says. “We now live in a society where a man is no longer afraid of getting popped in the mouth for saying something offensive”
> 
> ...


Try any interest forum and you will be amazed at the rancor.

I visit a bicycle forum once in a while and I have to blush.......


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## PerryZulu (Apr 10, 2017)

sneak1413 said:


> 4IDARCHER said:
> 
> 
> > 100% wrong
> ...



Cam got Rogan in to bow hunting and bow rack set it up. Dudley volunteered to teach him the ways, probably for PR on behalf of Hoyt. Dudley is next level. Im interested to see what happens!


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## jcliveron (Oct 6, 2015)

I am going even bigger picture. John Dudley is being brought in to be groomed to take over for Pete Shepley (did he try to retire once before).


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

jcliveron said:


> I am going even bigger picture. John Dudley is being brought in to be groomed to take over for Pete Shepley (did he try to retire once before).


hmmm...:teeth:


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

jcliveron said:


> I am going even bigger picture. John Dudley is being brought in to be groomed to take over for Pete Shepley (did he try to retire once before).


That’s bold. Very bold.


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## xring1252 (Jan 7, 2020)

These are money grabs. Dudley loves Hoyt until someone else comes and offers his more money to shoot their bow then THAT bow is the best on the planet


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## BowhnterSV (Aug 27, 2019)

I dont think it’s a Hoyt issue. The RX4 is imo the best bow Hoyt’s has made in years. I think Dud was wanting to do things that if Hoyt allowed would not be good for Hoyt. Hoyt & Dudley were a class act about the whole thing. I do not see any issues with Hoyt at all.


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## YoungLane8 (Apr 17, 2018)

smokecity said:


> Funny how all the guys will start coming out saying who cares... “he’s a celebrity shooter”..... Um ya, right.... Dudley is a rare breed. This is a massive step back for Hoyt.
> 
> I have no reason to believe this, other than pure gut. PSE
> 
> ...


+1

So ridiculous all the "who cares" comments...assumptively from people that know _*nothing*_ about him or apparently the brand in question. 

Dudley set up all of Rogan's bows, he's built them live half the time on IG. 

I too think he's headed to PSE...a brand that's not as well-marketed as Hoyt or Mathews, and as stated in his recent podcast, whoever he's going to is going to allow him full autonomy to do WHATEVER he wants. 

The guy's a huge influence on the archery community whether people care to admit it or not. I think his long standing relationship with Pete Shippley will definitely factor into it.


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## sambone (Mar 12, 2014)

Ingo said:


> Hoyt let Dudley go so that they could make room in hopes they could sign me. Too bad for Hoyt I'm a maverick and will evermore be a free agent!
> 
> My 24 Instagram followers are pretty disappointed, I'm sure.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I also turned them down!!! Im a free agent for LIFE. Not even for a million bucks a year HOYT


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## JPE001 (Aug 6, 2018)

Really.... who cares who the top shooter/tuners shoot? I would guess people like the Dud and Rogan because they are famous. I like Hoyt because when it was time to buy a new bow the PD34 shot the best for me. I have had several friends I let shoot the bow. Some loved it some didn't. I will shoot what fits me not what's in vogue. I hope hoyt is still alive and well but I really dont care about the salesman.


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## fletchurown (Sep 1, 2010)

He's going to another bow company that is starting his own line of bows similar to what he did with his release. It will be huge with his name on it.

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## mknowlesus (Oct 5, 2016)

Lol who cares what bow he shoots? I watch John for his expert advice on how to shoot, not which bow to shoot. I tried a few hoyts and didn’t like how they felt. Not running out to buy one just because a celebrity shoots it. All of John’s tips on proper shooting work on my prime and pse bows just fine. I will continue to watch him regardless of where he ends up.


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

i care.
im always interested in what great archers shoot.
looking forward to it


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## Diver160651 (Sep 24, 2019)

Who cares.. nobody right?

Add this thread and the Hoyt thread and wholly smokes... apparently people do very much care..




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## South swamp (Aug 9, 2016)

Hoyt has roughly 90% of the target market. Hoyt is a bow that is reliable and will fit most all archers in one frame or another in the elite target bows. They make have to start having staff and pro shooters to stay in the market. There’s a lot of competition out there and some really good name brands these days.


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## 1horn (Jan 12, 2005)

All bow manufacturers are sucking wind as crossbows become a scourge on the landscape.


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## Patisthecat (Jul 21, 2019)

Prime all the way! Just a blind mans guess at best but who knows maybe he went out and shot all the bows and picked out the one he likes best? Then went to the manufacturer and named his price. I bet it would be that easy for him. Dudley is the man and he really does a good job of explaining things to people through video content and he really seems to do it in a way that makes people feel a connection to him.

Happy hunting out there!


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## pnw-bowhunter (Dec 25, 2019)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



1horn said:


> All bow manufacturers are sucking wind as crossbows become a scourge on the landscape.


That is depressing because its true. 

I have never been a crossgun fan, and i want people to use what they like, but it sucks seeing the vert bow market suffer while people go to crossguns for the easy shots. 

Then again i drive a stick....so archery isnt the only area of my life where i feel like the world is moving on around me.


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## YoungLane8 (Apr 17, 2018)

Guess we'll find out tomorrow, but this seems telling









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## Ericpalmer1$ (Dec 21, 2019)

Good one


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## thare1774 (Dec 13, 2010)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> ^^^
> This
> 
> But yes Dudley has set up bows for celebs incl JR but he got the first one or two from Cam.
> ...


Funny story, Joe Rogan actually bought his first bow from me a few years ago when I worked at a shop in Los Alamitos CA called Archery Outpost. It was a Bowtech Prodigy I believe, I also fletched him up some Gold Tips. This was right before he had Cameron Haynes on his podcast and started shooting a Hoyt. It was pretty cool


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## tj hankinson (Jun 27, 2019)

Pse pse pse!!!


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

4IDARCHER said:


> Oh I know.
> There is some serious shake ups in Hoyt’s future. Oh course there are plenty on here that just assume I am wrong.


You very are correct sir... And there needs to be. This leadership group has run a once proud leader of the industry into a follower at best. (And not even a good one)


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## MOfurMOfeather (Jul 13, 2018)

Dudley said nothing was wrong with Hoyt on his podcast, Hoyt's goals and his goals just didn't align anymore. Hoyt numbers have to be down, especially when you produce a $1599 bow that's worth half that a year later. I have no interest in Hoyt, over-priced, under-built, shoots like crap from my test experience.


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## miamivicedade (Jan 28, 2018)

The problem with Hoyt is not their brand ambassadors or sales team. It's the culture of the company. I have Hoyts and Mathews, and the plain reality is that a Hoyt is simply not worth $500-$600 more than a Mathews. Their brand ambassadors, or "online celebrities" hawk the carbons. What that is telling the market place is that either you pay a massive up-charge for carbon, or you buy an aluminum bow of theirs that's quite frankly, inferior to other companies. Dudley leaving is doing so to take care of Dudley, which is absolutely fine. Even though I am not a fan of PSE, I will still like Dudley, because he's a legend of archery, and a cool, friendly, down to Earth guy. He teaches you things, and takes his time to expand archery and educate people both old and new to it. 

Hoyt is going to continue to suffer if they don't come down on their prices, or put more emphasis on their bows that are more in line with other manufacturers. In the aluminum bow game, they're behind. And whether you want to admit it or not, John Dudley has made Hoyt millions of dollars.


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## Thundersnow (Nov 15, 2014)

Where is everyone getting a copy of Hoyts financials? And who has a copy of the market share information? And who here works in their marketing or design department?


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## Nate0311 (Jan 8, 2020)

People will still get the bows that they feel are best for them. Regardless of brand.


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## Threeyellowlabs (Jan 3, 2020)

I like Dudley and watch a ton of his stuff on Youtube. Having said that, I live in SLC and Hoyt is king for us Western hunters. I wish him well and hope he does great things but still does not mean I am going to run out and buy PSE but I am confident others will. Advertising is a constantly changing landscape. Sounds like Hoyt should probably watch Youtube a bit more and see who the heavy hitters are and stick with them. Nobody in my circle of friends even watch hunting shows on cable any more. Too much good content on Youtube. That is where the product exposure is right now. And Dudley has a great following so I am sure PSE is going to do good things. Still love my Hoyts and no plans to switch brands. I am sure Hoyt will do fine. Hopefully Dud's move will benefit the entire archery Industry and allow him to grow the market as a whole.


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## smokecity (Jul 13, 2010)

smokecity said:


> Funny how all the guys will start coming out saying who cares... “he’s a celebrity shooter”..... Um ya, right.... Dudley is a rare breed. This is a massive step back for Hoyt.
> 
> I have no reason to believe this, other than pure gut. PSE
> 
> ...


Dang I’m a smart fella.....


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## Buran (Nov 26, 2018)

South swamp said:


> Hoyt has roughly 90% of the target market. Hoyt is a bow that is reliable and will fit most all archers in one frame or another in the elite target bows. They make have to start having staff and pro shooters to stay in the market. There’s a lot of competition out there and some really good name brands these days.


 That's pure hyperbole. In compounds, Hoyt has a dominant place in top competitive target archery, because the brand has a well earned reputation and also an impressive pro staff shooting their bows, but nowadays you can see all kind of brands doing well in tournaments. While in olympic recurves Hoyt and W&W easily fill 80%+ of the podiums, in compounds no brand is anywhere near to hit that numbers. Just check the whole top 8 places in every major indoor and outdoor WA tournement in 2019 (or the recent Macau, Luxembourg and Rome torurnaments from the Indoor Archery Open) and you will find Hoyts, Mathews, PSEs, Bowtechs, Elites, Primes and even some Xpedition performing well.

I would also say that from outside USA the whole picture about target compounds is a bit different of what can be perceived inside. In america bow hunting is huge and moves most of the sales, and even for Hoyt the target market is more like a thing of prestige, so they make a few models which are (of course) more expensive that their hunting bows, and they were the "object of desire" fora lot of archers for decades. Other competition brands used to tag their flagship bows at similar prices (the Prevail and Invicta, the TRX, the Perform X... were in the $ ~1.800) but currently you have brands which sell their target models overseas at much lower prices (here in Spain a Invicta is ~1.650 €, whereas the TRX are around 1.200 €, the Black 9, the Rezult, the Perform X, and the Reckoning 38 all below ~1.300 € -and I'm talking about price tags including taxes here- ), and PSE is clearly focusing the marketing in the Supras (here below 950 €) because they are selling 10 to 20 Supras for each Perform X or Shootdown. So, I don't think that that "halo" of Hoyt being the brand which dominates the podiums at tournaments in target shooting will endure. They, whithout a doubt, have the current best compound male and female archer in the world but they won't win every tournament and the top places are now at the reach of any brand.


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## Buckets21 (Nov 7, 2017)

Thank you!


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

tj hankinson said:


> Pse pse pse!!!


He is DEFINITELY going in a better direction then...


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

thare1774 said:


> Funny story, Joe Rogan actually bought his first bow from me a few years ago when I worked at a shop in Los Alamitos CA called Archery Outpost. It was a Bowtech Prodigy I believe, I also fletched him up some Gold Tips. This was right before he had Cameron Haynes on his podcast and started shooting a Hoyt. It was pretty cool


Nice, that's awesome. Experience?

https://twitter.com/joerogan/status/423612487699668994?lang=en


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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

MOfurMOfeather said:


> Dudley said nothing was wrong with Hoyt on his podcast, Hoyt's goals and his goals just didn't align anymore. Hoyt numbers have to be down, especially when you produce a $1599 bow that's worth half that a year later. I have no interest in Hoyt, over-priced, under-built, shoots like crap from my test experience.


I bought my Mathews Vertix for $999 and sold it a year later for $900 with the rest on it 
Hoyts never hold value like that unless it’s a target setup bow


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

BigZsquatchin said:


> I bought my Mathews Vertix for $999 and sold it a year later for $900 with the rest on it
> Hoyts never hold value like that unless it’s a target setup bow
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you give me the name of the member you sold that to? I have a 2002 Hyundai Accent I'd like to sell him for $5000. 

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## BigZsquatchin (Nov 5, 2017)

Ingo said:


> Can you give me the name of the member you sold that to? I have a 2002 Hyundai Accent I'd like to sell him for $5000.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Can’t help u if u bought one of those
That vehicle was made for profiling purposes 


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



Anchor Zero Six said:


> Think we are saying same thing. My only point is that it seems JR is much closer to Cam but thats not saying they all are not tight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...













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## eilermmt (Sep 4, 2019)

Ingo said:


> Can you give me the name of the member you sold that to? I have a 2002 Hyundai Accent I'd like to sell him for $5000.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Haha!


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## niccernicus (Nov 30, 2015)

conservewild said:


> Rogan only likes Hoyt because it’s likely all he has ever shot I’m guessing he will shoot Dudley’s new bow unless he individually gets sponsored


No argument with this. 

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## ruzo (Oct 22, 2016)

hoyt is going down


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## ruzo (Oct 22, 2016)

PSE IS GOING IN THE RIGHT PATH.... evolve cams is the most sweetable cam on earth.


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## Rev44 (Dec 19, 2008)

ruzo said:


> hoyt is going down


Nice 20th post. No clue

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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

ruzo said:


> PSE IS GOING IN THE RIGHT PATH.... evolve cams is the most sweetable cam on earth.


Sweetable? Thats new. PSE hit the nail on the head. But personally I think archery as a whole will head in the right direction here very soon. Lets build what the consumer really wants. I think those little add ons with dudlys new bow is just a start. 

I'm hoping mire and more company's start allowing personal options instead of reinventing the wheel with an all new bow. Been doing these things with rifles for years. 

Maybe then you will see more custom shops start popping up customising bows for people cause they have time to develop aftermarket products for specific models. 

Who knows, but this is what I'm hoping for.


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## Anchor Zero Six (Nov 29, 2010)

tmead said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sweet thats bad ass. You expect a different reaction? Its all good as long as people are getting into shooting bows. 


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## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

Anchor Zero Six said:


> Sweet thats bad ass. You expect a different reaction?
> 
> Its all good as long as people are getting into shooting bows. !!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Rogan has a huge fan base but the cool thing is when he explains it to non hunters! We all may try that from time to time but we will never hit the audience he has. I think he does a great job of promoting bow hunting. 

I prefer the Mathews Traverse cam more than the evolve, however I think we will see some good things in the next few years with Dudley’s input. 

And yes I shot Hoyt for 7 years but the ridiculous mess they had with the RX 3 15 dollar plastic fix made me switch. I really wanted that bow but they didn’t take care of the people who bought the ones that had issues. 

Oh well. Good luck to all of them.


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## Anchor Zero Six (Nov 29, 2010)

Extreme vft17 said:


> I prefer the Mathews Traverse cam more than the evolve, however I think we will see some good things in the next few years with Dudley’s input.


Most of my bows have been PSE Evolve series and I just made switch to VXR.

If PSE makes a carbon riser version of the Xpedite I will for sure get one. 

Hoyt done me raw recently and I dont see me buying a new one anytime soon. 


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

tmead said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Good for Joe. Love what PSE is doing.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

THE ELKMAN said:


> tmead said:
> 
> 
> > Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> ...


Im curious if this will be the best bow he has shot? 🙂


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## niccernicus (Nov 30, 2015)

Extreme vft17 said:


> Rogan has a huge fan base but the cool thing is when he explains it to non hunters! We all may try that from time to time but we will never hit the audience he has. I think he does a great job of promoting bow hunting...


Hearing Rogan talk archery, and hunting with guys like Cam, Rinella, and Dudley pushed me into taking up archery. I live in WI though, so I'm all Mathews.


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## varmint101 (May 8, 2008)

Hoyt will lose a lot of sales from the giant marketing loss Dud will leave, but I think they’ll be ok. Bee I never really noticed pushing Hoyt like Dud did. Bee doesn’t hash tag 10 companies like he did either. 

Hoyt will have to lean on the Bowmars and Hushin now I guess and well, most of that little company called Realtree.


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I think that the Evolve cam series from 2018-present are some of the most forgiving cams for people with shoulder problems...Then I shot a Traverse...I felt the cam was just a slight improvement on the draw with 85's..That worked for me


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

Hoyt will have a great year!! 

NC

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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> Hoyt will have a great year!!
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


This is all that needs to be said ^^^^^


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## Bassattackr (Oct 23, 2009)

varmint101 said:


> Hoyt will have to lean on the Bowmars and Hushin now I guess and well, most of that little company called Realtree.


And Cam Hanes??


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## varmint101 (May 8, 2008)

Bassattackr said:


> And Cam Hanes??


That’s right! How could I forget? And Cameron Hanes!


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

varmint101 said:


> Hoyt will lose a lot of sales from the giant marketing loss Dud will leave, but I think they’ll be ok. Bee I never really noticed pushing Hoyt like Dud did. Bee doesn’t hash tag 10 companies like he did either.
> 
> Hoyt will have to lean on the Bowmars and Hushin now I guess and well, most of that little company called Realtree.



Are the Bowmars sponsored by Hoyt?


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## wildernessninja (Aug 9, 2013)

Think whitetail fit is affiliated with hoyt aswell. Sure theres others.


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## varmint101 (May 8, 2008)

Spike, yes the Bowmar’s are sponsored by Hoyt. 

Sure there are others as well.


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

varmint101 said:


> Spike, yes the Bowmar’s are sponsored by Hoyt.
> 
> Sure there are others as well.
> 
> ...


 I like Cam but the bowmars ehhhhhh I did see Chris Bee at ATA rocking his new Mathews gear


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

varmint101 said:


> Spike, yes the Bowmar’s are sponsored by Hoyt.
> 
> Sure there are others as well.
> 
> ...




I didn’t know that, but now that I do...I immediately get a skeezier vibe about Hoyt.


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## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

The Traverse at 85 percent is outstanding. At 75 percent woooo hoooo she’s touchy. 

They make a 33 or 34 inch VXR and I may have to go shopping 

But I will hold on to this one for at least another season.


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## Havers2004 (Oct 28, 2018)

It never looks good when people start bailing from a company!


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## johnno (Apr 11, 2006)

Yes it does my No#1 rule in business- slow to hire - quick to fire 


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

One thing that everyone seems to overlook is that every bow manufacturer would love to have a fraction of Hoyt's international market. They simply dominate in this area. 

For all we know they could replace Dudley with a couple of international guys and actually be better off? Regardless if what happens.... Hoyt will be selling a crap ton of bows this year. 

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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

What’s up with Hoyt ?

They got some solid offerings this year. Solid tune settings back, through the full range of cams and draw lengths. Best Hybrid cams on the market. From static to dynamic, just a very good balanced bow with excellent aiming properties. Easy to tune, easy to shoot. 

Things are looking up from my view, so I’m back [emoji16]


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## DedDeerWalking (Dec 10, 2009)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



ontarget7 said:


> What’s up with Hoyt ?
> 
> They got some solid offerings this year. Solid tune settings back, through the full range of cams and draw lengths. Best Hybrid cams on the market. From static to dynamic, just a very good balanced bow with excellent aiming properties. Easy to tune, easy to shoot.
> 
> ...


Plus the Invicta is [emoji91][emoji91][emoji91]. 

Everyone said the same thing when Reo and Jesse left Hoyt. If I remember correctly they made it through that just fine. 


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## woodsdog (Jan 25, 2019)

leftee said:


> Like Dudley.Don't buy the 'Hex' thing but like him and who he hangs out with.Positive.
> PSE makes sense but I suspect it's much more.Likely developmental.His own 'line' of bows perhaps.Much bigger deal than we think.
> Betting great for him,the company and archery in general.


I agree, if you watch PJ Reilly's interview with Dudley on the LAS 2020 ATA coverage on YouTube, I have my suspicions Dudley is going to own PSE within a decade. Pete Shepley is not getting any younger and he would want to ensure and start planning now for his business legacy to be taken care of and continue into the future. Dudley is a good choice for this and he's grown up through the ranks from a hunter and bowtech at a bow shop all the way up to a social media star, product developer, product provider, celebrity for major brands and is well connected and respected. I don't know any of these people whatsoever I've just been around awhile and to me, that is what's happening eventually. I have never owned a PSE but they have been around for years and years and I used to drool over the PSE Mach series from Bowhunters Discount Warehouse but I liked Chuck Adams and Bill Krenz and Dwight Schuh and they all shot and worked for Hoyt in some capacity. I've not owned a Hoyt since 2004 but that's not because of the brand or its quality.


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## Bassattackr (Oct 23, 2009)

woodsdog said:


> I agree, if you watch PJ Reilly's interview with Dudley on the LAS 2020 ATA coverage on YouTube, I have my suspicions Dudley is going to own PSE within a decade. Pete Shepley is not getting any younger and he would want to ensure and start planning now for his business legacy to be taken care of and continue into the future. Dudley is a good choice for this and he's grown up through the ranks from a hunter and bowtech at a bow shop all the way up to a social media star, product developer, product provider, celebrity for major brands and is well connected and respected.


That's an interesting proposition.. Either way, I hope they continue to do good things, it only helps everyone and the industry as a whole.


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

-bowfreak- said:


> One thing that everyone seems to overlook is that every bow manufacturer would love to have a fraction of Hoyt's international market. They simply dominate in this area.
> 
> For all we know they could replace Dudley with a couple of international guys and actually be better off? Regardless if what happens.... Hoyt will be selling a crap ton of bows this year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Yes, having the international market on lock and having the someone advertise your product for free on the top 5 most downloaded podcast in the world is pretty good.


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## mattedhead (Sep 6, 2007)

MNarrow said:


> Yes, having the international market on lock and having the someone advertise your product for free on the top 5 most downloaded podcast in the world is pretty good.


Except Rogan is now shooting PSE.


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## mibowhunter1989 (Apr 24, 2019)

Hoyt quality has been declining for a few years now. I sent back A LOT of rx-1 and rx-3 over the last two years for major tuning issues (customers bows) most have tweaked risers from the factory. They are extremely over priced. Im not suprised to see dudley leave


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

mattedhead said:


> Except Rogan is now shooting PSE.


By far the largest revenue to cost ratio in the archery world.........PSE will get a lot of revenue for zero cost, just like Hoyt did.


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## RedRounder (Dec 29, 2019)

I like how everyone assumes Hoyt or PSE hasn't/isn't paying Rogan.

Sent Via Tapatalk


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## mibowhunter1989 (Apr 24, 2019)

mathews has a way bigger impact on social marketing. marketing on any level actually


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Hello
:happy1:


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## digsafe (Jan 4, 2018)

I think losing Dudley is huge. On the technical sides of things, he is a bow mechanic.
Nothing against guys like Cam Haynes and Hushin, but these guys can’t even set up their own bows. I maybe wrong but their YouTube channels have episodes of having their bows setup by a shop.
If I was looking up to a figuire of the like, I would like that someone to be a crew chief and a driver for that bow.


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

digsafe said:


> I think losing Dudley is huge. On the technical sides of things, he is a bow mechanic.
> Nothing against guys like Cam Haynes and Hushin, but these guys can’t even set up their own bows. I maybe wrong but their YouTube channels have episodes of having their bows setup by a shop.
> If I was looking up to a figuire of the like, I would like that someone to be a crew chief and a driver for that bow.


You're not wrong about the Hushin guys, hell even I can set up my bows more than they do, I only had to go to my archery shop to check timing and install peep as I don't have a press or draw board yet, but everything else I did from d loop, rest install and setup to sight install and axes set up. Although saying all that Jeremiah at Wilde Arrow archery knows his s h i t


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## Jellymon (Jun 19, 2010)

Smoothy750 said:


> You're not wrong about the Hushin guys, hell even I can set up my bows more than they do, I only had to go to my archery shop to check timing and install peep as I don't have a press or draw board yet, but everything else I did from d loop, rest install and setup to sight install and axes set up. Although saying all that Jeremiah at Wilde Arrow archery knows his s h i t


The Hushin guys need someone to shoot for them too. Even they act surprised when they hit something, much less vitals.


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

Jellymon said:


> The Hushin guys need someone to shoot for them too. Even they act surprised when they hit something, much less vitals.


unless it's all a front to get Wilde Arrow exposure


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## conservewild (Sep 24, 2019)

Smoothy750 said:


> Jellymon said:
> 
> 
> > The Hushin guys need someone to shoot for them too. Even they act surprised when they hit something, much less vitals.
> ...


 they do seem to let the arrows fly in most cases


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

RedRounder said:


> I like how everyone assumes Hoyt or PSE hasn't/isn't paying Rogan.
> 
> Sent Via Tapatalk


They aren’t


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## digsafe (Jan 4, 2018)

Yay, the whole Pse lineup will be fluorescent green!! If say Dudley ends up buying pse in the future


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

digsafe said:


> Yay, the whole Pse lineup will be fluorescent green!! If say Dudley ends up buying pse in the future


Barf...
Not sure which is worse, flow green or the red string sets and accents PSE used for years.

Edit: Fluorescent green is worse!


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## Countz (Jan 17, 2020)

Hoyt makes an awesome product. So does PSE. Shoot what you like and I never worry about what someone else is doing. I do what's best for me and apparently so does John Dudley.


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## "Own More Bone" (Oct 18, 2002)

Cam Could'nt even explain how his release adjusts at the ATA show, and it's his "Signature" release... " Is there Adjustabablity" .... "Yea I'm sure there is I don't mess with it"!! WOW... Probably could'nt even tie a D loop himself... LOL Keep Hammering ... that trigger. 

" Hey Ralphy Boy!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK9odsWwfIo

These guys should know the basics on the products that they are given free to promote...

John could break a bow down blinfolded and put it back together without breaking a sweat.

Not a Hater as the Cam sheeple will say, just pointing out the obvious....


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## RedRounder (Dec 29, 2019)

4IDARCHER said:


> They aren’t


They aren't paying or people aren't assuming?

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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

digsafe said:


> I think losing Dudley is huge. On the technical sides of things, he is a bow mechanic.
> Nothing against guys like Cam Haynes and Hushin, but these guys can’t even set up their own bows. I maybe wrong but their YouTube channels have episodes of having their bows setup by a shop.
> If I was looking up to a figuire of the like, I would like that someone to be a crew chief and a driver for that bow.


Losing Dud and Rogan definitely isn't going to help... Period


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

"Own More Bone" said:


> Cam Could'nt even explain how his release adjusts at the ATA show, and it's his "Signature" release... " Is there Adjustabablity" .... "Yea I'm sure there is I don't mess with it"!! WOW... Probably could'nt even tie a D loop himself... LOL Keep Hammering ... that trigger.
> 
> " Hey Ralphy Boy!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK9odsWwfIo
> 
> ...


Cam Hanes runs a marathon a day...........I doubt he builds his own running shoes.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

Terrible analogy lol...
Does Cam Hanes have signature running shoes?


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

spike camp said:


> Terrible analogy lol...
> Does Cam Hanes have signature running shoes?


Probably runs in his signature UA


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## MNarrow (Nov 10, 2009)

spike camp said:


> Terrible analogy lol...
> Does Cam Hanes have signature running shoes?


I guess I don't see the point in bagging on someone who doesn't know how to tie a D loop


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## brushdog (May 11, 2009)

"Own More Bone" said:


> LOL Keep Hammering ... that trigger....


I just laughed so hard I farted!


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

4IDARCHER said:


> Hoyt is in a mess right now.


How so? Right now hunting bows are 8 weeks out because they have so many orders to fill.


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## Bassattackr (Oct 23, 2009)

centershot said:


> How so? Right now hunting bows are 8 weeks out because they have so many orders to fill.


Yea, I don't get comments like that either..


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

centershot said:


> How so? Right now hunting bows are 8 weeks out because they have so many orders to fill.


right now it takes longer than usual to get things through Customs into the Country ..could be the reason for the Carbon hunting bows taking more time .....


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

spike camp said:


> Terrible analogy lol...
> Does Cam Hanes have signature running shoes?


He’s runs with UA shoes and has a signature UA hunting boot.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

tmead said:


> He’s runs with UA shoes and has a signature UA hunting boot.


Well there ya go lol
Cam seems ok, even if he doesn’t know how to tie a dloop 

I didn’t see the video in question, but if he has a signature release, he should know how it operates...or at least be able to articulate the functionality.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

spike camp said:


> I didn’t see the video in question, but if he has a signature release, he should know how it operates...or at least be able to articulate the functionality.


I agree, I watched the video the other day. It did make me chuckle when he said he didn’t know how to adjust it because he has never messed with it.


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## "Own More Bone" (Oct 18, 2002)

bigbucks170 said:


> right now it takes longer than usual to get things through Customs into the Country ..could be the reason for the Carbon hunting bows taking more time .....


Is'nt Hoyt a USA made bow?

another question: Cam hunts with a video crew.. Why? Where is all his hunting footage shown? Serious questions.. I've asked these questions before on his FB and have never gotten a response.. I do enjoy the 15 minute youtube hunting clips that he or UA put out though..


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



"Own More Bone" said:


> Is'nt Hoyt a USA made bow?
> 
> another question: Cam hunts with a video crew.. Why? Where is all his hunting footage shown? Serious questions.. I've asked these questions before on his FB and have never gotten a response.. I do enjoy the 15 minute youtube hunting clips that he or UA put out though..


Other than the UA videos, his main outlet is instagram. I don’t think he alway has a film crew, sometimes just intagram photos or videos 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

"Own More Bone" said:


> Is'nt Hoyt a USA made bow?


Hoyt is a US “assembled” bow. Doesn’t mean the parts are all made here. The reference relates to the carbon riser.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

"Own More Bone" said:


> Is'nt Hoyt a USA made bow?
> 
> another question: Cam hunts with a video crew.. Why? Where is all his hunting footage shown? Serious questions.. I've asked these questions before on his FB and have never gotten a response.. I do enjoy the 15 minute youtube hunting clips that he or UA put out though..



I know he gets to wander around the Hill ranch in Colorado...where a 350 bull isn’t a shooter.


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## "Own More Bone" (Oct 18, 2002)

tmead said:


> Other than the UA videos, his main outlet is instagram. I don’t think he alway has a film crew, sometimes just intagram photos or videos
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thank you


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## Ybuck (Apr 21, 2007)

tmead said:


> I agree, I watched the video the other day. It did make me chuckle when he said he didn’t know how to adjust it because he has never messed with it.


thought that was crazy too


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## Anderd01 (Apr 18, 2018)

ok, serious question..... I ordered my RX4 November 10th...... I have my purchase order number so I call Hoyt this morning, they gave me the fantastic news that my bow has a ship date of February 15th!! I Asked what is taking so long, they could not give a good answer. My question do I just say the heck with it and cancel the order and order the VXR?


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Anderd01 said:


> ok, serious question..... I ordered my RX4 November 10th...... I have my purchase order number so I call Hoyt this morning, they gave me the fantastic news that my bow has a ship date of February 15th!! I Asked what is taking so long, they could not give a good answer. My question do I just say the heck with it and cancel the order and order the VXR?


3 months is absolutely ridiculous for a hunting bow. No way I'd wait that long (especially whey you are already overpaying for a carbon bow).


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

bigbucks170 said:


> right now it takes longer than usual to get things through Customs into the Country ..could be the reason for the Carbon hunting bows taking more time .....


Over 12 weeks on the Mach 1 ? 




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## rossi9s (Sep 25, 2005)

I have waited 4 months for a mathews...it happens


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

ontarget7 said:


> Over 12 weeks on the Mach 1 ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah haha no doubt ...I just get caught up in the mud throwing after awhile ...its silly for sure .. you don't seem to have a problem getting RX4's how many do you have already ?


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

bigbucks170 said:


> yeah haha no doubt ...I just get caught up in the mud throwing after awhile ...its silly for sure .. you don't seem to have a problem getting RX4's how many do you have already ?


2 - Ultra and Alpha
I’d probably have a Mach 1 but no where to be found locally. I honestly don’t understand what’s taking PSE so long. Over 12 weeks is a bit much 


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## Yak4Fun (Jan 6, 2020)

They should have paid the man 


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

The tariffs on Chinese mfg. has Hoyt slowed down on getting there risers and parts For the carbon line !


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

*What’s up with hoyt?*

So much speculation in this thread that isn’t factual, it’s crazy. 
Then again, it’s on par with a fair amount of info these days. 


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

ontarget7 said:


> 2 - Ultra and Alpha
> I’d probably have a Mach 1 but no where to be found locally. I honestly don’t understand what’s taking PSE so long. Over 12 weeks is a bit much
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah I agree.. ridiculous ..I was told 8-12 weeks but mine was a custom order ..got my first Carbon bow two years ago and I am hooked on it for hunting ...so the wait continues


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

bigbucks170 said:


> yeah I agree.. ridiculous ..I was told 8-12 weeks but mine was a custom order ..got my first Carbon bow two years ago and I am hooked on it for hunting ...so the wait continues


[emoji1360]
It’s all carbon for me as well from here on out. 


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

ontarget7 said:


> So much speculation in this thread that isn’t factual, it’s crazy.
> Then again, it’s on par with a fair amount of info these days.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think Don Lemon, Anderson Cooper and Rachel Madow are directing this thread. Everything but the facts.


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## fishingolf (Jul 21, 2009)

Q2DEATH said:


> I think Don Lemon, Anderson Cooper and Rachel Madow are directing this thread. Everything but the facts.


Nice! 

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


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## kjboudreau14 (Nov 11, 2014)

I understand that if you are going to have a signature product that you should know its functionality. But why does tinkering with equipment and being able to work on your bow make a difference? I enjoy doing it, but Cam has always given props to the Bow Rack for hooking him up. Nothing wrong with supporting your local pro shop. He says all the time he is a bowhunter, im not sure you need to know how to install a d-loop to be a good hunter. Seems like some jealous people trying to make themselves feel better because they can tie a few knots and twist a few cables. 


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

*What’s up with hoyt?*

Hoyt is gong to be just fine. Heck Dudley just got done talking about it on a recent podcast. These “shaking up the tree” as he called it is good for the Industry. Helps brands like Hoyt to bring their A game again and others to step up as well. He said it’s important that the top three brands continue to be strong for the industry in general and sometimes things of this nature need to take place to ruffle the feathers. He even mentioned he has been there at Mathews and Hoyt when they had some of their best years and some years where some much needed improvements and addressing some concerns needed to take place.


This whole thread has dissolved but the key point to take away from this IMO is yes some major things have changed for Hoyt. Is it bad? I honestly don’t think so, I think it’s just a moment of reflection followed by some strong years to come for Hoyt. Change can be both humbling and a good thing. 

From what it sounded like from Dudley in the first 20 or so minutes of podcast 259. That’s exactly what is coming down the pipe from Hoyt, the pot has been stirred, some humility has taken place and Hoyt will come out swinging next year. 

Honestly if they would just switch to 1/4” axles, move all their production state side even carbon like PSE has done and tighten up those factory specs and quality control they would dang near have a perfect bow. 

The tuning is dang near perfect with the new cams, the bows are drop dead sexy specially the RX4, butter smooth draw cycles, beautiful string angles and their legendary durability. If they can just address a few loose ends they have my business back. 

I’ll hang out in the Mathews lime light for a few years since it seems they have been pumping out pure gold. However I’m super jacked to see what both PSE and Hoyt both start dropping in the next few years. 

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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

bigbucks170 said:


> right now it takes longer than usual to get things through Customs into the Country ..could be the reason for the Carbon hunting bows taking more time .....


Why is that? I work with US Customs every week in my job and if anything they are streamlining their processes and procedures. What is your source for this information?

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## digsafe (Jan 4, 2018)

I think BigBuck was just being a little facetious at an apparent dig that Hoyt isn’t completely US made that is all


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

digsafe said:


> I think BigBuck was just being a little facetious at an apparent dig that Hoyt isn’t completely US made that is all


You make a claim like that I believe you should be able to back it up with facts, that is all.

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> You make a claim like that I believe you should be able to back it up with facts, that is all.
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


C’mon man, let’s not derail this thread with facts!


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

Mathias said:


> C’mon man, let’s not derail this thread with facts!


Lol, you're right! What was I thinking!?? 

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

well I ordered a few items from over seas ..England ,some cigarette lighters and tea ..and boots from Germany both 
are still not hear ..they told me customs was taking longer and was the hold up ...not sure why


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

bigbucks170 said:


> well I ordered a few items from over seas ..England ,some cigarette lighters and tea ..and boots from Germany both
> are still not hear ..they told me customs was taking longer and was the hold up ...not sure why


English tea? Traitor. Lol


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## Summit3 (Sep 23, 2018)

Regardless of the above posts, I do think if PSE can do 100% of their production in house and US Made. Then Hoyt should find a way to absorb carbon production in house or at least state side. Then they can proudly display “Made in the USA” like so many other brands have the honor of doing. 


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## Greenjoytj (Aug 10, 2013)

Maybe there is a carbon tax, or Hoyt wants to reduce their corporate carbon foot print.
All companies know the solution to pollution is to leave the mess in someone else’s backyard.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Greenjoytj said:


> Maybe there is a carbon tax, or Hoyt wants to reduce their corporate carbon foot print.
> All companies know the solution to pollution is to leave the mess in someone else’s backyard.


Can we just leave Hoyt alone. They are in a unique spot right now and could use a little space. 


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



Greenjoytj said:


> Maybe there is a carbon tax, or Hoyt wants to reduce their corporate carbon foot print.
> All companies know the solution to pollution is to leave the mess in someone else’s backyard.


You do realize the US is top in production capacity of carbon fiber ? Aero space is the biggest reason that has shifted

Again, so much false speculation 

On average only a 1/3 of the material is used in the process and 2/3 is waste. With a growing demand for carbon fiber I suspect we may see prices drop eventually. That is, once they figure out a way to recycle the unused material. From my understanding, this can also be limited in the strength of carbon so the uses of the recycled material will have its limitations depending on the strength needed. 


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

centershot said:


> How so? Right now hunting bows are 8 weeks out because they have so many orders to fill.


They WISH that's why they were 8 weeks out...:zip:


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## Coyote1950! (Feb 23, 2020)

Seem like “much ado about nothing”. While there are thousands of archers who follow the pros, there are as many who, like myself, are influenced on a local level and just want to bag a deer or do well informally shooting against their buddies. I addition I tend to look at pros as “mercs” who will shoot for the best offer...just as you or I would given the same opportunity


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## jerryfish (Oct 28, 2014)

If Dudley can spark some additional innovation from Hoyt (and maybe a drop in prices) it would be good for the industry. Its never good to have an 'Apple Inc.' at the top creating a culture of the cool kids, and slowing innovation in favor of marketing. With that said my next bow will likely be a (used) Hoyt haha.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

jerryfish said:


> If Dudley can spark some additional innovation from Hoyt (and maybe a drop in prices) it would be good for the industry. Its never good to have an 'Apple Inc.' at the top creating a culture of the cool kids, and slowing innovation in favor of marketing. With that said my next bow will likely be a (used) Hoyt haha.


Dudley is gonna make Hoyt look like fools. PSE is gonna be the new kid on the block with that goodie EVO - one nice bow with bright green strings. Dudley is gonna make PSE solid! Hopefully he fixes the grip on that Carbon bow - it’s a spinner. But that EVO is really good. 

I like Hoyt - I got a Hyperforce. It’s really good except all the vibration. Should have called it the Hyperquake. Shakes a lot - feels like Chewbacca’s face in a wind tunnel. It does have a great draw. 


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



bdimaggio said:


> Dudley is gonna make Hoyt look like fools. PSE is gonna be the new kid on the block with that goodie EVO - one nice bow with bright green strings. Dudley is gonna make PSE solid! Hopefully he fixes the grip on that Carbon bow - it’s a spinner. But that EVO is really good.
> 
> I like Hoyt - I got a Hyperforce. It’s really good except all the vibration. Should have called it the Hyperquake. Shakes a lot - feels like Chewbacca’s face in a wind tunnel. It does have a great draw.
> 
> ...


I’ve read your posts. I’m curious. Please describe the spinner grip and what it means?

Don’t worry, Hoyt’s done a pretty good job at looking like a fool since the defiant. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

the whole 'we're going to stop spending money on quality control and instead give free bow to instagram influencers' was a bold strategy. not surprised they're having their issues


----------



## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

List of top 10 carbon fiber manufacturers in the world, and the US isn't one?

https://matchory.com/top-carbon-fiber-manufacturing-companies


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> Dudley is gonna make Hoyt look like fools. PSE is gonna be the new kid on the block with that goodie EVO - one nice bow with bright green strings. Dudley is gonna make PSE solid! Hopefully he fixes the grip on that Carbon bow - it’s a spinner. But that EVO is really good.
> 
> I like Hoyt - I got a Hyperforce. It’s really good except all the vibration. Should have called it the Hyperquake. Shakes a lot - feels like Chewbacca’s face in a wind tunnel. It does have a great draw.
> 
> ...


here we go again....


----------



## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

What was the last good Hoyt? Defiant 34? Carbon Spyder 34?


----------



## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Q2DEATH said:


> What was the last good Hoyt? Defiant 34? Carbon Spyder 34?


The defiant was the end of Hoyt. Absolutely a complete embarrassment. 
Spyder was probably the pinnacle so far imo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lee31 (Nov 5, 2007)

Q2DEATH said:


> What was the last good Hoyt? Defiant 34? Carbon Spyder 34?


I have a Helix Ultra. It's a dang good bow. Sounds like guys are really liking the RX4's and RX4 ultras.


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## lee31 (Nov 5, 2007)

rmscustom said:


> The defiant was the end of Hoyt. Absolutely a complete embarrassment.
> Spyder was probably the pinnacle so far imo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol ok.


----------



## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

rmscustom said:


> I’ve read your posts. I’m curious. Please describe the spinner grip and what it means?
> 
> Don’t worry, Hoyt’s done a pretty good job at looking like a fool since the defiant.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A grip that doesn’t feel very settled in the hand. When you release an arrow, you may get a little left or right deviation - others describe it as torquing the bow. 

But I agree that grips are to a persons taste. Not sure what it is, but I can’t get comfortable with PSEs carbon bows. 

PSE is gonna move up in bow rankings with Dudley’s EVO. Night and day better than the stock version. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



bdimaggio said:


> A grip that doesn’t feel very settled in the hand. When you release an arrow, you may get a little left or right deviation - others describe it as torquing the bow.
> 
> But I agree that grips are to a persons taste. Not sure what it is, but I can’t get comfortable with PSEs carbon bows.
> 
> ...


Grips are personal. If you’re having a torquing issue with a pse carbon best look at your form. 
Please explain why Dudes ntn version is night and day better than the stock one? Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Smoothy750 said:


> here we go again....


Have you tested an EVO yet? That draw is smooth - smoother than any of Hoyts offerings. 

You should definately try one - you might go PSE. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> Have you tested an EVO yet? That draw is smooth - smoother than any of Hoyts offerings.
> 
> You should definately try one - you might go PSE.
> 
> ...


Yes I have and I wasn't referring to that


----------



## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

rmscustom said:


> Grips are personal. If you’re having a torquing issue with a pse carbon best look at your form.
> Please explain why Dudes ntn version is night and day better than the stock one? Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The kick stand, shelf, green string/cable set, rest tie in and most importantly, anchoring the cable guard rod! 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



rmscustom said:


> Grips are personal. If you’re having a torquing issue with a pse carbon best look at your form.
> Please explain why Dudes ntn version is night and day better than the stock one? Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I don’t think that folks in archery understand and appreciate Dudley’s contributions to archery. 

He is the best archer, teacher, and coach in the US. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

RK4 said:


> I shot the RX4 today, I just didnt like it enough to toss my CD or RX1 Turbo. Next week the shop will have a RX4 turbo, the ATA is more in line with what I like, so maybe Ill walk out with that one. We will see. Im so used to working on my Hoyts that I do hope I like the RX4 Turbo.


Looks at AT name,

Looks at post....


----------



## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

Who brought this thread back to life? 🙄


----------



## RedArrow81 (Nov 6, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> rmscustom said:
> 
> 
> > Grips are personal. If you’re having a torquing issue with a pse carbon best look at your form.
> ...


Jesus, you think string color makes a bow better? Is this like sport bikes? The green ones are faster?

That is ridiculous.


----------



## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

bdimaggio said:


> I don’t think that folks in archery understand and appreciate Dudley’s contributions to archery.
> 
> He is the best archer, teacher, and coach in the US.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yet he’s got a video out there about broadhead tuning that is flat out wrong. Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

bdimaggio said:


> The kick stand, shelf, green string/cable set, rest tie in and most importantly, anchoring the cable guard rod!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s laughable. 
Anyone that’s spent any time with a evolve cam bow that knows how to tune realizes that moveable cable guard is a great tool for fine tuning. I don’t get why you would want it fixed? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

rmscustom said:


> Yet he’s got a video out there about broadhead tuning that is flat out wrong. Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


True!!

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Jellymon (Jun 19, 2010)

rmscustom said:


> Yet he’s got a video out there about broadhead tuning that is flat out wrong. Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m curious, what video? What did he say that was wrong about BH tuning?


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Jellymon said:


> I’m curious, what video? What did he say that was wrong about BH tuning?


Just search Dudley broadhead tune. 

Says to make your bh hit with field point left and right you move the rest towards the FP... Up and down yes but not left and right... I realize that a bunch are now gonna tell me I’m wrong but for those that know will know I’m right. 

I got a RH realm X in my home shop right now with the rest and sight maxed out to the right cause the owner of it watched that video. Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

From Easton.


----------



## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



Prowler said:


> From Easton.


Keep following that ancient chart When ya can’t get your fixed blades to hit with your FPs you can start #tagging Rage in all your social media posts. Haha

Does not apply to modern release fired compounds with drop away rests. 

There is some that know and some that pretend to. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

I'm not part of any social media. Here's a video of a Bowtech guy. Maybe he's wrong too. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UiYA1ijrwow


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Prowler said:


> I'm not part of any social media. Here's a video of a Bowtech guy. Maybe he's wrong too.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UiYA1ijrwow


Not watching it cause I know. Flat out wrong if it’s like Dudes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

and here’s Tim Gillingham explaining it correctly...but what does he know

https://youtu.be/FzddtM_ED1s 

Skip to 3 minute mark.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

RedArrow81 said:


> Jesus, you think string color makes a bow better? Is this like sport bikes? The green ones are faster?
> 
> That is ridiculous.


String colors are import in deer hunting. Deer see in yellow and blue color spectrums. They don’t see the green as well, so it’s good camouflage for the bow. 

I heard that they make deer goggles, so you can see how a deer sees in yellow and blues. I can’t find them on Amazon though. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

IVhunter said:


> and here’s Tim Gillingham explaining it correctly...but what does he know
> 
> https://youtu.be/FzddtM_ED1s
> 
> Skip to 3 minute mark.


Your crazy if you think Tim G knows more than Dudley. Dudley knows archery the best - he’s got a bow, several releases, and arrows - he even sells Nockon T-shirts... I haven’t seen Tim with any T-shirts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thwapman (Apr 2, 2012)

bdimaggio said:


> String colors are import in deer hunting. Deer see in yellow and blue color spectrums. They don’t see the green as well, so it’s good camouflage for the bow.
> 
> I heard that they make deer goggles, so you can see how a deer sees in yellow and blues. I can’t find them on Amazon though.
> 
> ...


Dang it my Catfish order yesterday has a flo yellow pinstripe.


----------



## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

bdimaggio said:


> Your crazy if you think Tim G knows more than Dudley. Dudley knows archery the best - he’s got a bow, several releases, and arrows - he even sells Nockon T-shirts... I haven’t seen Tim with any T-shirts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Put the phone down and step away..seriously!


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## Jellymon (Jun 19, 2010)

rmscustom said:


> Just search Dudley broadhead tune.
> 
> Says to make your bh hit with field point left and right you move the rest towards the FP... Up and down yes but not left and right... I realize that a bunch are now gonna tell me I’m wrong but for those that know will know I’m right.
> 
> ...


That’s what I figured. After yoke tuning I’ve always moved my rest toward the broadhead left to right and have always had broadheads and field points hitting together past 60 with my centershot at the center of the shelf. Seems to work very well for being the “wrong way.”


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Jellymon said:


> That’s what I figured. After yoke tuning I’ve always moved my rest toward the broadhead left to right and have always had broadheads and field points hitting together past 60 with my centershot at the center of the shelf. Seems to work very well for being the “wrong way.”


Good for you You got it figured out. A lot of typing on here with very little actual doing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Jellymon said:


> That’s what I figured. After yoke tuning I’ve always moved my rest toward the broadhead left to right and have always had broadheads and field points hitting together past 60 with my centershot at the center of the shelf. Seems to work very well for being the “wrong way.”


I guess my thoughts are to just tune and set my bow to shoot broadheads. Quit wasting time with points. Buy a broadhead target, train like you hunt. 

Like they say, train like you fight. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

bdimaggio said:


> I guess my thoughts are to just tune and set my bow to shoot broadheads. Quit wasting time with points. Buy a broadhead target, train like you hunt.
> 
> Like they say, train like you fight.
> 
> ...


Thing is even if your broadhead tipped arrow comes off the bow at a 20degree angle the fletches are gonna eventually correct it and you’ll have the same poi on Target every time. Don’t make it efficient or right. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lee31 (Nov 5, 2007)

bdimaggio said:


> Your crazy if you think Tim G knows more than Dudley. Dudley knows archery the best - he’s got a bow, several releases, and arrows - he even sells Nockon T-shirts... I haven’t seen Tim with any T-shirts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol now you're just trolling.


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## samhel (Dec 31, 2010)

lee31 said:


> I have a Helix Ultra. It's a dang good bow. Sounds like guys are really liking the RX4's and RX4 ultras.


I agree on the helix ultra!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MT Olie (Nov 7, 2009)

:happy1:


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## kb2313 (Apr 3, 2020)

Its crazy that Dudley went to PSE but a lot of it seems because he has final say in how to build the NTN - 
And Hoyt def lost a lot of "celebs" because Duds building all of his buddies custom NTN bows- 

Cam will stay with Hoyt, but the difference is Hoyt makes Cam super heavy bows that you cant buy - but all the Nockon NTN stuff you can get at the dealer or Nockon- Hoyt will def. lose some customers on this one.


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

kb2313 said:


> Its crazy that Dudley went to PSE but a lot of it seems because he has final say in how to build the NTN -
> And Hoyt def lost a lot of "celebs" because Duds building all of his buddies custom NTN bows-
> 
> Cam will stay with Hoyt, but the difference is Hoyt makes Cam super heavy bows that you cant buy - but all the Nockon NTN stuff you can get at the dealer or Nockon- Hoyt will def. lose some customers on this one.


Cam's bows are 80#, no different than what any one of us can order


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

Dudley is a advertising guru , look at all the press he gets plus his own brand is well known ! Love the fact that he helps a lot of veterans ! Hoyt has been losing market share foe several years now ! Plus making ur carbon bows in China doesn't help , They have redesigned there tech riser like 25 yrs in a row ! They need a new platform !


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

Doebuster said:


> Dudley is a advertising guru , look at all the press he gets plus his own brand is well known ! Love the fact that he helps a lot of veterans ! Hoyt has been losing market share foe several years now ! Plus making ur carbon bows in China doesn't help , They have redesigned there tech riser like 25 yrs in a row ! They need a new platform !


Every other manufacturer keeps redesigning a non tech riser every year. The tech riser is what sets them apart, like Bowtech with center pivot or Elite with the caged riser. Hoyt would be stupid to go away from the tech riser, it's what allows them to have the best grip platform in the business.


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

dnv23 said:


> Every other manufacturer keeps redesigning a non tech riser every year. The tech riser is what sets them apart, like Bowtech with center pivot or Elite with the caged riser. Hoyt would be stupid to go away from the tech riser, it's what allows them to have the best grip platform in the business.


Best grip? In the business? Huh? You have to be kidding me... (for sure on the hunting side)


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## BIP (Apr 30, 2013)

bdimaggio said:


> I guess my thoughts are to just tune and set my bow to shoot broadheads. Quit wasting time with points. Buy a broadhead target, train like you hunt.
> 
> Like they say, train like you fight.


Wipe the BRC coffee of your chin with your Sitka napkin before you attack the keyboard again with your Carter...errr...Nock On Wise Choice...ummmm....Nock2It. Did you check Instagram this morning to make sure Jocko got up at 4:33 this morning too? We get it....social media heroes are your thing. Sheep only get cold when they are shorn....


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

BIP said:


> Wipe the BRC coffee of your chin with your Sitka napkin before you attack the keyboard again with your Carter...errr...Nock On Wise Choice...ummmm....Nock2It. Did you check Instagram this morning to make sure Jocko got up at 4:33 this morning too? We get it....social media heroes are your thing. Sheep only get cold when they are shorn....


LMAO!! I just spit my BRC! 

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Asbock12 (Mar 1, 2019)

Man, oh man! How did I miss this thread?! Looks like ive got 54 pages of what I can only imagine will be some good, "no you're wrong! No you're wrong!", reading to do on the toilet at work today! :set1_rolf2:


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

Asbock12 said:


> Man, oh man! How did I miss this thread?! Looks like ive got 54 pages of what I can only imagine will be some good, "no you're wrong! No you're wrong!", reading to do on the toilet at work today!


No kidding, good material right here


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> LMAO!! I just spit my BRC!
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Happened to me too!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dnv23 (Feb 8, 2011)

THE ELKMAN said:


> Best grip? In the business? Huh? You have to be kidding me... (for sure on the hunting side)


I didn't say best grip, I said grip platform. The tech riser allows Hoyt to make the grip thinner and more customizable than any other company. There are a ton of after market options and Hoyt has at least 3 options themselves. If you can't find a grip that works for you on a Hoyt you're either extremely picky or a hater.

Bottom line is, you're an annoying hater that is totally clueless. 

Just 2 years ago Hoyt was the best bow by a mile and everyone else sucked. Now Bowtech is the best and everything else is inferior. 

I'm not a brand leg humper like yourself, I shoot them all and like them all.


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## lowg08 (Jan 15, 2016)

Oh ok so I have two questions and a comment After attempting to browse 22 pages for the answer. 

Who did Dudley sign with? 
What is a boomer? 

If Hoyt is that bad? Why did my 19 Nitrux sell in less than 10hrs on here. I do not own a Hoyt anymore. ( went xpedition) I really don’t think any of them are far superior anymore. As far as main stream bow companies


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

dnv23 said:


> I didn't say best grip, I said grip platform. The tech riser allows Hoyt to make the grip thinner and more customizable than any other company. There are a ton of after market options and Hoyt has at least 3 options themselves. If you can't find a grip that works for you on a Hoyt you're either extremely picky or a hater.
> 
> Bottom line is, you're an annoying hater that is totally clueless.
> 
> ...


You just have to treat his posts as I do, comedic relief in these tough times!


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## Toby78 (Aug 13, 2019)

Most everybody thinks whatever brand they have is best


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

Mathias said:


> You just have to treat his posts as I do, comedic relief in these tough times!


Absolutely agree! It's entertainment especially with his posts! Don't engage and you will be much better off! [emoji6]

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Tfranceschi (Jul 5, 2010)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> Absolutely agree! It's entertainment especially with his posts! Don't engage and you will be much better off! [emoji6]
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Glad Im not the only one who has noticed this.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Equally as entertaining is the Hoyt leg humpers defending their precious. Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## excaliber551 (Dec 4, 2016)

Yup Hoyt is in trouble alright. I suggest those of you who have a new RX4 contact me immediately and I will pay you pennies on the dollar to take it off your hands so you can move on to another brand.


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## EmergencyBrake (Apr 9, 2020)

Ill back you with some extra capitol so we can take as many of these now obsolete bows off of some very unfortunate peoples hands.


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## g5archer (Nov 19, 2012)

Hoyt is losing many customers as the price of their bows have exceeded the performance and fit/finish that they’re know for. This has been the case for a few years, I still shoot a 2013 turbo and love it but if I were to buy a new bow Hoyt wouldn’t be the front runner...perhaps another aluminum rig from here


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## Ash95 (Jan 28, 2020)

Is the engineer still good?


----------



## wildernessninja (Aug 9, 2013)

lowg08 said:


> Oh ok so I have two questions and a comment After attempting to browse 22 pages for the answer.
> 
> Who did Dudley sign with?
> What is a boomer?
> ...


Dudley went to pse
A boomer is short for baby boomer. Its a popular term gen Z and later millennials use.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



BIP said:


> Wipe the BRC coffee of your chin with your Sitka napkin before you attack the keyboard again with your Carter...errr...Nock On Wise Choice...ummmm....Nock2It. Did you check Instagram this morning to make sure Jocko got up at 4:33 this morning too? We get it....social media heroes are your thing. Sheep only get cold when they are shorn....


While I thank all military folks for service, I don’t place the service of a military celebrity any higher than that of your basic 18 year old who enlists and serves our nation, whether he or she be a cook, infantryman, or mechanic. The military is more than just Rangers, ODAs, and SEALs. Matter of fact, I don’t own a single book written by an SOF leader or operator... 

I appreciate your service as well - that is quite a ribbon rack. At a time when less than 1% service, your service means a lot, and I am very grateful to those who serve. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



dnv23 said:


> I didn't say best grip, I said grip platform. The tech riser allows Hoyt to make the grip thinner and more customizable than any other company. There are a ton of after market options and Hoyt has at least 3 options themselves. If you can't find a grip that works for you on a Hoyt you're either extremely picky or a hater.
> 
> Bottom line is, you're an annoying hater that is totally clueless.
> 
> ...


I personally like the Hoyt grip. But I do like the BT grip a little bit better. 

I love my Hoyt minus all the hand shock and vibration. Vibrates like Chewbacca’s face in a wind tunnel. I love my Bowtech minus the factory strings. Awful stretching... peep faced in a new direction everyday for two weeks. I have seen politicians that were more predictable. 

Bottomline - bows are like people. They all got a flaw or two. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

here we go again....dude..get a new line....seriously... ^^


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm ashamed of Hoyt after what they did this year.... AGAIN


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## boomboom726 (Feb 3, 2011)

I could care less about Dudley. My interest is peaked at the issues at Hoyt and whether they are going to make the appropriate changes and how that is going to look from a product line standpoint. I always felt the REDWRX line was a mere marketing scheme and they need to go beyond marketing schemes to sell bows and get back to the product.


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## mudd32 (Jan 4, 2014)

Like Hoyt gives two craps about Joe Rogan, lmao.
They'll be fine...they still employ some of the greatest international shooters in the world.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

bdimaggio said:


> Your crazy if you think Tim G knows more than Dudley. Dudley knows archery the best - he’s got a bow, several releases, and arrows - he even sells Nockon T-shirts... I haven’t seen Tim with any T-shirts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look at Tim’s record compared to Dudley , Tim don’t need to sell T-Shirts to prove his knowledge and success .


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## Bill_Bow (Apr 27, 2020)

Here’s why John Dudley may (or may not) matter. Where I live there are no bow shops nearby I’m aware of, there’s a Bass Pro that’s an hour away. On the other hand I buy most things through online stores anyway and I learn anything new on internet web sites or YouTube. I decided to get into archery when I saw our city opened an archery range. I listen to 4-8 Joe Rogan podcasts a month while driving to work so knew one of his things was bow hunting and I had heard of John Dudley through those podcasts. So before I bought a bow I looked up Dudley on YouTube and the first video I watched was Dudley setting up Rogans NTN. So I bought a new PSE Stinger off the Internet and when I popped the peep out of the string being a newb I bought a new one and learned how to put it in from Dudley’s video on setting up Rogans bow. Within a month I wanted a EVO NXT 35 LD but Lancaster only sells those by walk in, for a week I tried to figure out how to mail order one and couldn’t. So I found a shop in Pennsylvania selling a new PSE Evoke 35 EC for half off and bought it. I set it up using Dudleys videos. That bow will never see a bow shop, everything I do to the bow and everything I buy will be based on this forum, what I can order online and what I learn from Dudley and others on YouTube (Steven Hann - Archery Supply, Chris Bee etc.)


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## Samuel23 (Apr 23, 2020)

I agree. I never walked into a shop before, I learn everything through podcasts and online articles/videos. For someone like that Dudley is an asset. He seems sincere about helping people with archery, plus his attention to detail and thoroughness goes a long way with me. I truly could not care less he has biases with specific companies, what public personality doesn't? I tend to focus more on what is helpful rather than what is annoying, it seems to work for me.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

ex-wolverine said:


> Look at Tim’s record compared to Dudley , Tim don’t need to sell T-Shirts to prove his knowledge and success .


Disagree - Dudley is better known to the common archer. He helps archers, and sells cool things to archers. He has releases too - green, black and silver. Also, he is friends with famous people. He even has a podcast with guests. Have you seen his T-shirt line? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

Is this thing still going?....screw it, elite and Mathews kick the crap out of everything else. All other brands suck!


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> Disagree - Dudley is better known to the common archer. He helps archers, and sells cool things to archers. He has releases too - green, black and silver. Also, he is friends with famous people. He even has a podcast with guests. Have you seen his T-shirt line?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*insert HUGE eyeroll here...


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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

Kyle_Ensley said:


> Is this thing still going?


My thoughts exactly lol


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Smoothy750 said:


> *insert HUGE eyeroll here...


Lol - I am just re-stirring up the hornets nest. 


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## Amer91 (Jan 24, 2017)

Then came this pandemic..


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## Freakball (Apr 9, 2019)

Bill_Bow said:


> Here’s why John Dudley may (or may not) matter. Where I live there are no bow shops nearby I’m aware of, there’s a Bass Pro that’s an hour away. On the other hand I buy most things through online stores anyway and I learn anything new on internet web sites or YouTube. I decided to get into archery when I saw our city opened an archery range. I listen to 4-8 Joe Rogan podcasts a month while driving to work so knew one of his things was bow hunting and I had heard of John Dudley through those podcasts. So before I bought a bow I looked up Dudley on YouTube and the first video I watched was Dudley setting up Rogans NTN. So I bought a new PSE Stinger off the Internet and when I popped the peep out of the string being a newb I bought a new one and learned how to put it in from Dudley’s video on setting up Rogans bow. Within a month I wanted a EVO NXT 35 LD but Lancaster only sells those by walk in, for a week I tried to figure out how to mail order one and couldn’t. So I found a shop in Pennsylvania selling a new PSE Evoke 35 EC for half off and bought it. I set it up using Dudleys videos. That bow will never see a bow shop, everything I do to the bow and everything I buy will be based on this forum, what I can order online and what I learn from Dudley and others on YouTube (Steven Hann - Archery Supply, Chris Bee etc.)


Did you buy a press? 

That’s actually pretty badass. I’m on the other end of the spectrum; there’s 6 shops within driving distance and a bunch of ranges too. Man I feel for people who can’t just go buy the stuff they need for their bow. 


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## Ermeis06 (May 7, 2020)

Same questions here... I wonder what changes we'll see from them this year. I have to imagine they are panicking a little after the losses?


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

They sure as hell should be...


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

Ermeis06 said:


> panicking a little after the losses?


What losses? 

John Dudley left Mathews years ago. Did they fall and crumble to the ground? NOPE they are more successful now more than ever.

Loosing the internet punk Chris Bee? Don't think that will be the end of Hoyt either. 



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## SierraBound (Mar 7, 2020)

Who TF is dudley...and that Rogan guy mentioned earlier? Isnt Rogan that liberal Bernie Sanders supporter guy.......


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

SierraBound said:


> Who TF is dudley...and that Rogan guy mentioned earlier? Isnt Rogan that liberal Bernie Sanders supporter guy.......


Yep, yep and yep. 



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## Viking27 (May 7, 2020)

Hoyt doesn't care. Still one of the most established names in archery.


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Prowler said:


> Loosing the internet punk Chris Bee?


Why would you call Chris Bee a punk? 

Did he steal your sweet roll?

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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

Pretty simple I just don't like him.

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## Allen cox (Dec 29, 2018)

THE ELKMAN said:


> I'm ashamed of Hoyt after what they did this year.... AGAIN


 don't you work in an archery shop, seems like you're always dissing Hoyt and Mathews for last few years, you sure weren't dissing Hoyt when you were hunting with one, - ohhh, YOU sell bowtech, never mind, Completely disregard this post .


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Allen cox said:


> don't you work in an archery shop, seems like you're always dissing Hoyt and Mathews for last few years, you sure weren't dissing Hoyt when you were hunting with one, - ohhh, YOU sell bowtech, never mind, Completely disregard this post .


Yeah, take that Elkman! Cause there’s nothing as awesome as a $1750 carbon bow that weighs the same as an aluminum bow and comes in 10+FPS slower than its ibo rating unless you’re in the perfect sweet spot of their #2 cam. Haha


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Prowler said:


> Pretty simple I just don't like him.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk


Who *DO* you like? 

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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

Ingo said:


> Who *DO* you like?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Not to many people. 

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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

Prowler said:


> Not to many people.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk


That's kind of what I figured . Well I agree with you that Hoyt will be just fine tomorrow and likely 20 years from now just the same. 

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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

rmscustom said:


> Yeah, take that Elkman! Cause there’s nothing as awesome as a $1750 carbon bow that weighs the same as an aluminum bow and comes in 10+FPS slower than its ibo rating unless you’re in the perfect sweet spot of their #2 cam. Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why such a hardon for Hoyt?

Anything aluminium riser'd that's relative to the RX4 Ultras ATA is heavier. Not by much but they are.

Also the review Ontarget7 did on the Alpha gave it an IBO of 350 if I can remember right.

Everytime I hear someone shat on a higher price tag item be it a car/truck or custom gun or practically anything, it's because they don't want to shell out the dough or they can't afford it.


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

Ingo said:


> That's kind of what I figured [emoji38]. Well I agree with you that Hoyt will be just fine tomorrow and likely 20 years from now just the same.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Correct....

It's the same with a NFL team. When a good quarterback leaves the team some say the team is doomed. One or two people do not make up the team.

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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

Prowler said:


> Why such a hardon for Hoyt?
> 
> Anything aluminium riser'd that's relative to the RX4 Ultras ATA is heavier. Not by much but they are.
> 
> ...


ATA speed rating of the RX4 Alpha is 342...Axius Alpha is the same


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

Smoothy750 said:


> ATA speed rating of the RX4 Alpha is 342...Axius Alpha is the same


Yes you are correct. Just sayn what Ontarget achieved with his setup. Again if I remember right...laffin...

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## Bill_Bow (Apr 27, 2020)

Freakball said:


> Did you buy a press?
> 
> That’s actually pretty badass. I’m on the other end of the spectrum; there’s 6 shops within driving distance and a bunch of ranges too. Man I feel for people who can’t just go buy the stuff they need for their bow.
> 
> ...


Yes I bought a bow press, built a draw board and a bow workstation. I enjoy working on things, taking things apart. It is a bummer when I have to wait for parts mail order :-/ Was building new arrows and it took over a week to get vanes, points and nock pins/nocks.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

Prowler said:


> Why such a hardon for Hoyt?
> 
> Anything aluminium riser'd that's relative to the RX4 Ultras ATA is heavier. Not by much but they are.
> 
> ...


Just wrong. High priced custom stuff is cool but only if it’s better. High priced stuff that is average at best is a joke. 

You’re absolutely silly if you buy the rx4 over the axius. 

I can make up speeds on a bow too
And you’re also free to believe the preachings of the good Pastor Sandy. Lmao. 


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## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

Allen cox said:


> don't you work in an archery shop, seems like you're always dissing Hoyt and Mathews for last few years, you sure weren't dissing Hoyt when you were hunting with one, - ohhh, YOU sell bowtech, never mind, Completely disregard this post .


Even the Archery Messiah was preaching the wholesome goodness of Hoyt until he got stole away by PS Eboli. Painted a bow they had green and now it's the rave. It's all a shell game to get your coin. These dingle berry picking contest are just a by-product.


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## azscorpion (Feb 12, 2010)

Hoyt has been stagnant in their tech and upwards on pricing....PSE Bowtech, Elite and others are stepping up their game


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

horsehands said:


> Even the Archery Messiah was preaching the wholesome goodness of Hoyt until he got stole away by PS Eboli. Painted a bow they had green and now it's the rave. It's all a shell game to get your coin. These dingle berry picking contest are just a by-product.


He was running around the Hoyt office with his bottom lip poked out like a petulant child crying "Waddy has one, Cammy has one, so I want my own bow TOO!!" Hoyt said "sorry little buddy, but you just aren't that important in the grand scheme of things even though you hang out with a pot smoking liberal!" He stomped out of the office in a screaming fit when just about that time ole' Pete called and said "hey little feller, we can paint one of our bows green and put your cute logo on the limb and call it the NockOn Nation bow because we have nothing to lose!" Little Dudley got what he wanted and the rest is history! 

NC

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## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> He was running around the Hoyt office with his bottom lip poked out like a petulant child crying "Waddy has one, Cammy has one, so I want my own bow TOO!!" Hoyt said "sorry little buddy, but you just aren't that important in the grand scheme of things even though you hang out with a pot smoking liberal!" He stomped out of the office in a screaming fit when just about that time ole' Pete called and said "hey little feller, we can paint one of our bows green and put your cute logo on the limb and call it the NockOn Nation bow because we have nothing to lose!" Little Dudley got what he wanted and the rest is history!
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


:mg:


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

rmscustom said:


> Just wrong. High priced custom stuff is cool but only if it’s better. High priced stuff that is average at best is a joke.
> 
> You’re absolutely silly if you buy the rx4 over the axius.
> 
> ...


What you've said is your biased opinion, nothing more.

Myself and others do not believe Shane (Ontarget7) made up speed numbers or lied as your implying. He has no reason to do so.

I said it before, if the Hoyt carbons weren't priced as they are people would be singing a different tune.

I have no problem with the price (as many others) and I do have a new RX4 Ultra. As that is my opinion and I've owned different bows from different manufacturers. So I'm not hung up on only one brand.

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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

rmscustom said:


> Just wrong. High priced custom stuff is cool but only if it’s better. High priced stuff that is average at best is a joke.
> 
> You’re absolutely silly if you buy the rx4 over the axius.
> 
> ...


then riddle me this, a Hoyt carbon bow (yes I bought one) for 1699 (or whatever retail is on them down there, up here they retail for around 2100 Canadian, yet people have no prob dropping $2k US for a Gearhead target bow, or $1800US for a Hoyt Invicta without batting an eye or saying a word. Hell even my Prime X1 39 I bought for 850 Canadian that came with a hamskea micro adjustable hybrid target rest and a black gold competition 1a sight lists for 1599 US on Lancaster's site! Why is that?


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## Ncturkeycaller (Oct 13, 2008)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> He was running around the Hoyt office with his bottom lip poked out like a petulant child crying "Waddy has one, Cammy has one, so I want my own bow TOO!!" Hoyt said "sorry little buddy, but you just aren't that important in the grand scheme of things even though you hang out with a pot smoking liberal!" He stomped out of the office in a screaming fit when just about that time ole' Pete called and said "hey little feller, we can paint one of our bows green and put your cute logo on the limb and call it the NockOn Nation bow because we have nothing to lose!" Little Dudley got what he wanted and the rest is history!
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



You can bet $$$ that if hoyt gave him a bow with his name on it and they released the same RX4 line it would be the best thing ever by him and many on here. Sad but true. I dont care for any of the so called "pros" or "celebrities". In the grand scheme of things once you've been into archery and/or hunting you'll realize how much these people are all about themselves!


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## DeepFried (May 15, 2009)

I'm a little late to the conversation but I can say that Hoyt is the only big 5 bow I've never owned and don't intend to any time soon. Not because of any particular reason.


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

Ncturkeycaller said:


> You can bet $$$ that if hoyt gave him a bow with his name on it and they released the same RX4 line it would be the best thing ever by him and many on here. Sad but true. I dont care for any of the so called "pros" or "celebrities". In the grand scheme of things once you've been into archery and/or hunting you'll realize how much these people are all about themselves!


Amen!! And he will drag his sack sniffers along with him to whichever manufacturer he decides to pimp next year or whenever his PSE contract is up.

NC

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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> Amen!! And he will drag his sack sniffers along with him to whichever manufacturer he decides to pimp next year or whenever his PSE contract is up.
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Laffin.....I don't give 2 ****s what any pro archer, TV hunting clown or celebrity uses to hunt with or anything for that matter. I like what I like it's that simple. 

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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

Prowler said:


> Laffin.....I don't give 2 ****s what any pro archer, TV hunting clown or celebrity uses to hunt with or anything for that matter. I like what I like it's that simple.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk


Roger that!! I agree!

NC

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## samhel (Dec 31, 2010)

NCAVI8TOR said:


> Amen!! And he will drag his sack sniffers along with him to whichever manufacturer he decides to pimp next year or whenever his PSE contract is up.
> 
> NC
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Sooo, what did he do to hurt your feelings? Being a smart business person and sharing information seems like a great way to really piss people off. 


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## automan26 (Oct 21, 2002)

In my 69 years of crawling around on this planet, there's one thing I've learned after making the same mistake over and over and over.... Speculation is an opinion based on a handful of partial facts without knowing a bucketful of other essential and unseen facts. Those who speculate about the actions of another are 100% correct according to what they see, but most likely 100% incorrect if the could only see what they don't see. I think it's absolutely safe to say that any speculation about another's actions is in most cases 100% misguided. 

Automan


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## Ncturkeycaller (Oct 13, 2008)

samhel said:


> Sooo, what did he do to hurt your feelings? Being a smart business person and sharing information seems like a great way to really piss people off.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Think about it outside the "box" if You will....How does having your "brand Logo" on a bow help spread info on archery? It doesnt! He has done this for years while shooting a hoyt with nobody's names on it. The whole I want my own bow model is nothing but a ego thing and a "I deserve one" kinda notion. Do you think that he wants to have his name on it with out getting paid? No he dont. He wants $$$. All this is, is being butt hurt because Waddel and Cam has one....If you cant see this then your not looking "outside" the box....


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## scott_co (Nov 23, 2017)

Prowler said:


> What you've said is your biased opinion, nothing more.
> 
> Myself and others do not believe Shane (Ontarget7) made up speed numbers or lied as your implying. He has no reason to do so.
> 
> ...


I will not argue that the draw cycle of the Hoyt RX's are nice and speed is workable. That said, I will not pay a premium for an overweight carbon bow just as I would not purchase an overweight carbon bike. 

Many industries such as F1, aerospace, and cycling have chosen carbon over aluminum as it is lighter, stronger, better at vibration dampening, and temperature tolerant. I'll pay a premium for these features, and I did with my PSE Carbon Stealth 35 EC.


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## samhel (Dec 31, 2010)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



Ncturkeycaller said:


> Think about it outside the "box" if You will....How does having your "brand Logo" on a bow help spread info on archery? It doesnt! He has done this for years while shooting a hoyt with nobody's names on it. The whole I want my own bow model is nothing but a ego thing and a "I deserve one" kinda notion. Do you think that he wants to have his name on it with out getting paid? No he dont. He wants $$$. All this is, is being butt hurt because Waddel and Cam has one....If you cant see this then your not looking "outside" the box....


You have completely made this up. He shares a wealth of knowledge online. 
I know I would be looking for new ways to spread my brand if I had my own business. I don’t know how you would run a business, but I would want mine to be successful. That’s what he is doing, all while sharing info. Take the info or leave it, I don’t care, but he’s a resource for those that want it and he’s finding a way to grow his brand with a company that will let him. Hoyt wouldn’t help so he found one that would. Again successful outlook on the business side. 


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

scott_co said:


> I will not argue that the draw cycle of the Hoyt RX's are nice and speed is workable. That said, I will not pay a premium for an overweight carbon bow just as I would not purchase an overweight carbon bike.
> 
> Many industries such as F1, aerospace, and cycling have chosen carbon over aluminum as it is lighter, stronger, better at vibration dampening, and temperature tolerant. I'll pay a premium for these features, and I did with my PSE Carbon Stealth 35 EC.


You purchased what you liked and felt it was a better product. Kudos to you. I don't care nor should I because I'm not the one shooting it.

I've owned PSE before as well as Hoyt, and I favor Hoyt.

I'm just not understanding guys on this board boo-hoo'n other peoples chit. Like a bunch of women in a beauty salon piss'n and moaning about what she said or did.

ALL of today's compound bows are leaps and bounds better than they were in the late 80's when I bought my first one. I believe all of them are great performers and their aesthetics can be liked as well.

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## scott_co (Nov 23, 2017)

Prowler said:


> You purchased what you liked and felt it was a better product. Kudos to you. I don't care nor should I because I'm not the one shooting it.
> 
> I've owned PSE before as well as Hoyt, and I favor Hoyt.
> 
> ...


I 100% agree with you on the improvement in today's bow performances. And I really don't care what bows people choose to use. If folks want to pay a premium for a heavy carbon bow, they can knock themselves out. Hell, I spend plenty of dollars on gear for hunting, cycling, etc. that may not make sense to some folks.

I just wish the archery industry would catch up to other industries that have figured out how to use carbon well, so our options were better.


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## Alpinator (May 9, 2020)

THE ELKMAN said:


> I'm ashamed of Hoyt after what they did this year.... AGAIN


And that is?
Sorry for the noob question, I just returned shooting after a break of nearly 20 years.


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## n8saki (Aug 31, 2018)

I don't get what's wrong with Hoyt..RX4 82lb 472gr @296FPS for me might bump it to 500gr. Improvement over my RX3 Ultra for me. Like anything YMMV. Run what you brung - and hit the X.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Ncturkeycaller said:


> Think about it outside the "box" if You will....How does having your "brand Logo" on a bow help spread info on archery? It doesnt! He has done this for years while shooting a hoyt with nobody's names on it. The whole I want my own bow model is nothing but a ego thing and a "I deserve one" kinda notion. Do you think that he wants to have his name on it with out getting paid? No he dont. He wants $$$. All this is, is being butt hurt because Waddel and Cam has one....If you cant see this then your not looking "outside" the box....


Dudley has good bows in green. He has lots of t-shirts and stickers too. His shirts are really cool - Nock On all the way. He even has releases in three different colors - green, black and silver. Hope he makes one in red with a yellow logo. 

He’s the real deal - he can shoot. Steady all the way. 

His PSEs are really good. I am saving up for one. Love the green strings. Will look great with a yellow d-loop and yellow vanes. He has a good YouTube channel with good videos. He is an expert knot maker. I learned how to tie a d-loop from his video. 


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## Kyle_Ensley (Jan 25, 2017)

This thread is DARK.....


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## Alpinator (May 9, 2020)

bdimaggio said:


> Dudley has good bows in green. He has lots of t-shirts and stickers too. His shirts are really cool - Nock On all the way. He even has releases in three different colors - green, black and silver. Hope he makes one in red with a yellow logo.
> 
> He’s the real deal - he can shoot. Steady all the way.
> 
> His PSEs are really good. I am saving up for one. Love the green strings. Will look great with a yellow d-loop and yellow vanes. He has a good YouTube channel with good videos. He is an expert knot maker. I learned how to tie a d-loop from his video.


I don't know if you are a troll, or if I should ask you for your age.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

*What’s up with hoyt?*



Alpinator said:


> I don't know if you are a troll, or if I should ask you for your age.


No troll - I just like the green bows. 


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Ingo said:


> Why would you call Chris Bee a punk?
> 
> Did he steal your sweet roll?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Who is Chris Bee? 


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

rmscustom said:


> Yeah, take that Elkman! Cause there’s nothing as awesome as a $1750 carbon bow that weighs the same as an aluminum bow and comes in 10+FPS slower than its ibo rating unless you’re in the perfect sweet spot of their #2 cam. Haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly...^^^


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## Harry Hunter (Apr 30, 2020)

Dang I figured this thread would have died by now! Lol 


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## HoytHunterRX3 (May 18, 2019)

I stopped shooting Hoyt after i found out they aren’t made in the USA. The grips and the limb pockets are the only two parts on a Hoyt bow that are made in the USA to my understanding, and even that may have changed. I called them to confirm and the gentleman i spoke with said their bows haven’t been made in the USA for almost 20 years now. He said it was too hard to make everything here and that they’re outsourced from all over the world however they are assembled here so that explains why the quality control is decent. They probably have a very strict quality control department and the slightest imperfection is denied and sent back. Either way I can’t justify $1600 for a made in china bow. Their Carbon risers are supposedly an Italian design that used to be made in Italy and then got outsourced to China. Typical right? Well i had an RX-3 as my name suggests, ended up buying a VXR 28 and ordering a RX-4. After owning the VXR 28 I sold the RX-3 and Canceled the order for the RX-4. I honestly miss my RX-3 and kinda regret canceling the RX-4 cause they do draw noticeably smoother than my VXR 28 but i did just trade my 2018 TRX38 for a 2020 Traverse. Hoping the draw cycle on the Traverse is a little smoother than my VXR 28. I hate that the Redwrx are made in China and who knows where else but gosh darn they shoot so nice. I may end up with one anyways just because they are a nice shooter. I just wish Hoyt would bring production back to the USA. Nothing against my Mathews because after 12 years if shooting only Hoyt the VXR was the bow that made me switch. And i love my VXR. The thing is by far quieter and more dead in the hand than any other bow I’ve ever owned. But I’d be lying if i said I didn’t miss my old Hoyt RX-3..... There i said it....


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

^^^ did you even try a 100% made in USA carbon bow yet ? the draw is super smooth


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

bigbucks170 said:


> ^^^ did you even try a 100% made in USA carbon bow yet ? the draw is super smooth


Not to mention cheaper and 1lb lighter with a far more efficient cam for all draw lengths


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## THE ELKMAN (Jan 2, 2013)

rmscustom said:


> Not to mention cheaper and 1lb lighter with a far more efficient cam for all draw lengths
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Truth...^^^


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## BIP (Apr 30, 2013)

Hoyt could probably stop producing their hunting line up and be fine with just their target bows. They have pretty much cornered the international target market as the dominant brand, so why care what people who would argue more vehemently over Coke vs Pepsi than their civil liberties.....


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## HoytHunterRX3 (May 18, 2019)

bigbucks170 said:


> ^^^ did you even try a 100% made in USA carbon bow yet ? the draw is super smooth


Which bow the PSE carbon bow?


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

HoytHunterRX3 said:


> I stopped shooting Hoyt after i found out they aren’t made in the USA. The grips and the limb pockets are the only two parts on a Hoyt bow that are made in the USA to my understanding, and even that may have changed. I called them to confirm and the gentleman i spoke with said their bows haven’t been made in the USA for almost 20 years now. He said it was too hard to make everything here and that they’re outsourced from all over the world however they are assembled here so that explains why the quality control is decent. They probably have a very strict quality control department and the slightest imperfection is denied and sent back. Either way I can’t justify $1600 for a made in china bow. Their Carbon risers are supposedly an Italian design that used to be made in Italy and then got outsourced to China. Typical right? Well i had an RX-3 as my name suggests, ended up buying a VXR 28 and ordering a RX-4. After owning the VXR 28 I sold the RX-3 and Canceled the order for the RX-4. I honestly miss my RX-3 and kinda regret canceling the RX-4 cause they do draw noticeably smoother than my VXR 28 but i did just trade my 2018 TRX38 for a 2020 Traverse. Hoping the draw cycle on the Traverse is a little smoother than my VXR 28. I hate that the Redwrx are made in China and who knows where else but gosh darn they shoot so nice. I may end up with one anyways just because they are a nice shooter. I just wish Hoyt would bring production back to the USA. Nothing against my Mathews because after 12 years if shooting only Hoyt the VXR was the bow that made me switch. And i love my VXR. The thing is by far quieter and more dead in the hand than any other bow I’ve ever owned. But I’d be lying if i said I didn’t miss my old Hoyt RX-3..... There i said it....


I called Salt Lake City earlier today. I spoke to a fellow and we discussed what the deal is with production of their Hoyt bows. He did not deny that some materials are outsourced globally and some materials are from the U.S. Materials like the primer can not be bought in the U.S. because they aren't manufactured here due to whatever the reasons may be. The different types of carbon that's used in the their bows come from several places. So I asked him straight out are the carbon risers manufactured in China. He replied NO. They are put together here in Salt Lake City with the domestic/outsourced raw materials. He also went to say that it's hard to find a 100% made in the USA product no matter what it is from cars to everyday items. Meaning counting all the materials down to the bolts/fasteners. Which we see and use those items everyday and I don't like it either.

If PSE truly uses all U.S. manufactured materials then that's great and I'm happy to see that they are as I wish ALL items were made here. 

I wished my local shops here had a PSE carbon bow for me to try at the time I was shopping for a carbon bow. I would have given them a fair shake. But by the looks and design of the riser I doubt my 2x mitts would have agreed. Every Elite and Mathews I've owned I had to use a Torqueless or wood grip to make it comfortable to shoot. My thumb gets mashed up against the undercut portion of the shelf. Hoyt's grip negates that problem completely. 

Bows are like trucks, guns, booze and women. Not everyone will like the same ones. We all have our reasons. 

So, those who are proud to own a 100% U.S. made bow (rightfully so) are you flinging arrow shafts that are made in Mexico or China or even Taiwan?  The arrows I'm speaking of are well known and of good quality as well.

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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

Prowler said:


> What you've said is your biased opinion, nothing more.
> 
> Myself and others do not believe Shane (Ontarget7) made up speed numbers or lied as your implying. He has no reason to do so.
> 
> ...


I’m still lying about speeds I guess cause my Alpha and Ultra are still coming in at IBO equivalent calc number, actually a few FPS over. 
Having the Mach1 and my RX4’s for quite awhile I still prefer the RX4’s. The Ultra at 80#’s maybe my favorite overall hunting rig to date.

All personal preference and great bows IMO

Enjoy, regardless of what you shoot !


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## Baldur (Jul 4, 2019)

lol Hoyt boys can't catch a break from the Mathews boys 😂


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

ontarget7 said:


> I’m still lying about speeds I guess cause my Alpha and Ultra are still coming in at IBO equivalent calc number, actually a few FPS over.
> Having the Mach1 and my RX4’s for quite awhile I still prefer the RX4’s. The Ultra at 80#’s maybe my favorite overall hunting rig to date.
> 
> All personal preference and great bows IMO
> ...


Yep! Still loving my Alpha and Ultra too. Might add some 80lb limbs on the Ultra because these 65s are just too damn easy for me to draw! 

NC

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## ColoradoDan (Jun 2, 2020)

Shoot what works for you...


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Baldur said:


> lol Hoyt boys can't catch a break from the Mathews boys


Right! I had a hyperforce. I liked the draw cycle, but it vibrated too much after the shot - it was like Chewbacca’s face in a wind tunnel. 


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## Smoothy750 (Apr 7, 2019)

bdimaggio said:


> Right! I had a hyperforce. I liked the draw cycle, but it vibrated too much after the shot - it was like Chewbacca’s face in a wind tunnel.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


jesus christ....here we go again...


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## Harry Hunter (Apr 30, 2020)

I’m still blown away there has been this much complaining of Hoyt. They are not perfect nor is any brand but I’ve been extremely happy with my Axius Ultra and Helix Ultra. 


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## Prowler (Nov 1, 2004)

Smoothy750 said:


> jesus christ....here we go again...


Laffin......

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## 620 FPS (Aug 10, 2020)

ETX BOWHUNTER said:


> im not sure, but they need to fix it ASAP. must be some in house problems if I were to guess.


DOnt matter to me. Id shoot a hoyt if I could afford one because theyre good bows not because of who shoots them.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

Elk2Alpine said:


> I’m still blown away there has been this much complaining of Hoyt. They are not perfect nor is any brand but I’ve been extremely happy with my Axius Ultra and Helix Ultra.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hoyts are good bows - great draw cycle, but also has a lot of after-shot noise and vibration. Agree with you - all the flag ships have pros and cons. 


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## Hidden Danger (Mar 13, 2008)

Hoyt makes a good bow


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## ontarget7 (Dec 30, 2009)

Still have mine and that’s saying something










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## DartonJager (Sep 9, 2015)

I for the life of me NEVER understood why people allow what are essentially complete strangers have so much influence over what they buy.

These archers be they hunters or pro archers are at the top or above of or less than 1% or all archers of out there and would shoot as well as they do regardless of equipment and just because a certain pro archer wins Vegas with a particular bow in my opinion at the end of the day means nothing to me as the last thing that matters when you get that good is the equipment you use as today's bows especially the top shelf flagship bows are all very very well made.

We less capable archers again in my opinion give the equipment the pros use WAY to much influence over our purchases.

Its kind of like me picking up Roy Mcilroy's golf clubs and expect to win the Masters.

I stopped buying new that year compounds 7-8 years ago when they cost as much and often a lot more than any of my HP rifles, and I own some VERY nice bolt guns.
In my opinion and this is MY opinion only no compound out there at a price of $800-$1300 can possibly be justified. Heck when they hit $600 for a flagship bow I said bu-by.
Last two bows I bought were 3 year old NIB flagship bows I got for 60% off original pro shop price. And for the most part these pro archers and hunters shoot their sponsors top $$$ flagship bows.

Again just my choices on how to spend my hard earned $$$ as wisely as possible.


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## bdimaggio (Dec 28, 2017)

DartonJager said:


> I for the life of me NEVER understood why people allow what are essentially complete strangers have so much influence over what they buy.
> 
> These archers be they hunters or pro archers are at the top or above of or less than 1% or all archers of out there and would shoot as well as they do regardless of equipment and just because a certain pro archer wins Vegas with a particular bow in my opinion at the end of the day means nothing to me as the last thing that matters when you get that good is the equipment you use as today's bows especially the top shelf flagship bows are all very very well made.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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