# Survey: A New Indoor Range in Toronto?



## ontario3-d'r (Feb 17, 2012)

I wish you nothing but success. There is great potential. I have been involved in tournament archery and teaching for over 20 years now. I get a lot of calls through the cource of a week wondering where people can shoot in Toronto area. Over the years, there has been a number of attempts to start a range in Toronto, and the number one issue is always the Cost of Operation. Square footage in Toronto is twice as much as 20 minutes outside of the city. Good target butts are very expensive. Rent is ridiculous. Electricity, heat, paper targets, monthly butt repairs, and wages also needs to be calculated in your planning. You won't get anyone to shoot if you charge more than $15/hour. It will cost $25,000 per month to run a range in Toronto. That is a lot of shooters to make that happen. Best of luck. If you can make it work, Toronto archers will be happy. Right now, there is a lot of driving for them to shoot, so most don't shoot as much as they would like.


----------



## shiftydog (Apr 18, 2013)

I just replied to your survey. Good luck to you. An indoor range within city limits would be great - especially if there was league play and tournaments. Also, a shop that sold arrows/equipment/accessories and tuned bows closer to home would be awesome. Not sure I'm a pay-by-the-hour kind of person - I'd be much more inclined to pay a monthly or annual fee for unlimited access.


----------



## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

I filled out the survey as well. 

I've often thought of whether or not you could rent space at an indoor soccer or volleyball place in a converted warehouse for an archery club. Seems like there are a few around, Railside Rd comes to mind.
Or a store front on Occonner or Kingston Rd or St Clair. A store front allows the service or retail portion but not too many archers on the line since the store widths are narrow, say 15-20 ft , 6 to 8 archers. 

Community Centres use to rent their gyms out. And church basements are sometimes available on a rental basis. But to have the facility 24x7 I think maybe the cost is more than the rev you can generate. 

In TO indoors, current options are 
--Hart House for UoT students and faculty. 
--Toronto School of Archery, community/church rentals, members of TSoA only. 
--Casa Loma, 
--some Olympic training via high level coaches
After that, for indoors, I think you need a car to get to OSCS, Peel, Caledon, York County Bowmen. There's been some talk about needing an indoor range in the east and some Durham Archer members explored using/renting a few lanes of a bowling alley a while back but not sure if anyone is doing this now. 

But if the thrust is to find an urban space close to the TTC to get folks in without cars then I think you need to rent. It'd be nice to find a landlord who shoots and has unused space, but maybe I'm dreaming...good luck, keep us posted!


----------



## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

completed your survey also, best of luck.

wayne


----------



## ArtemisToronto (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks for your insights, guys - and of course, also for the survey responses! 

I've been talking with people in the archery biz and I think we have a pretty fair idea what we're in for but of course, a really key factor IS hearing what potential customers have to say about it. We're pretty excited to see the answers that are coming in


----------



## Fixerman812 (Sep 28, 2008)

216 views and 5 replies should guide you in the right direction.


----------



## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Not all are who view Are from the GTA.


----------



## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

filled it out


----------



## ArtemisToronto (Jan 2, 2013)

JDoupe and Fixerman, you've both made points that I've given a lot of thought to. 

I'm really buoyed by the enthusiasm I've seen in Toronto archers. When I started blogging about archery here, someone told me I'd run out of things to write about in short order. It's turned out to be so far from true. The community is booming and really building up everything that's here for archers. I hope that this project will likewise be a surprising success to some

Thanks to everybody who's filled it in!


----------



## ArtemisToronto (Jan 2, 2013)

Oh, and if you haven't, I am still totally collecting responses. (Didn't mean to make it sound past tense!)


----------



## Landscaping (Jul 23, 2007)

Put a petition up in Bass Pro, Al Fleriteys, etc. etc. we have one in Durham north Oshawa, but its outdoors. Nice for nice weather shooting. $180 a season, (approx. ) dues, etc. great price if your a constant shooter.


----------



## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

Just checking in...Is there anything new on this?


----------



## ArtemisToronto (Jan 2, 2013)

Still collecting surveys, cc46. It's a slog but a fun slog, if that's possible.


----------



## PEGE (Nov 22, 2008)

Good luck guys! Not from To but encouraging you!


----------



## erickatgta (Apr 22, 2013)

filled and wish to see indoor range soon with reasonable distance...


----------



## viktorsmash (Feb 10, 2014)

Filled it out. It would be a great thing to have in the city as we have no indoor ranges at all. I wonder how many people a downtown 3D shoot would bring in. 

I do wonder about it's longevity though, as it is indoors. As great as it would be indoors during the winter, in the summer Torontonians (and Canadians for that matter) like to spend as much time outside as possible. I do regularly see archery lessons on deal sites like Groupon and WagJag, so that could be a good way to bring in business. 

But then again, I see no one has posted on this thread in almost 8 months so I guess it's safe to say this idea is dead in the water. Guess I'll stick to shooting at 10 yards in my backyard.


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Filled in


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

viewed ur survey...just a thought very few archery only shops and all are where property is owned surviving .. ...sorry but u will need guns and other sports items to survive...I know store owners and looked at buying a couple of shops as well..after reviewing books non where profitable if rent was a issue...and all of them where only 18 meter ranges so bigger would only be worse... get hooked up with college with big gyms or facilities...also get city involved as well sometimes they have recreational facilities capable of handling this ..and run them as a sports agenda like basketball..baseball etc talk to their parks and rec .....


----------



## JGL351 (Feb 22, 2013)

A shooting sport business in the city of Toronto is a tough sell. Indoor is safer in terms of arrows escaping the property, but the infa-structure costs are greater. Access and Parking are major concerns. On the other side the consumer may pay $300 - $500 for an annual membership if they are expecting 100+ hours of use. If the overhead for your facility is $100 000, you need a minimum of 200 yearly memberships, If you are running the facility alone, 350 days a year and 12hr /day you would need 10 lanes in 70% use to 
accommodate the members only. Running the facility hourly would be very volatile, with no guarantee of money month to month. 
I would love to see this happen but I dont think the economics will work. Are you independently wealthy and want to run this as a non profit or community service? You may qualify for a provincial grant.


----------



## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

jgl you forgot heat ... light ... insurance.. alarm system ..and salaries...water bill ...list goes on. not trying to deter you.. but archery alone won`t cut it...unless distributor and land and buildings owned...and independently wealthy as interest has to be calculated in there as well...


----------



## Dave Hahn (Aug 19, 2013)

This is off topic but I would love to work with some people to get something setup in the Barrie area for indoor season next year. Even look at renting church basements or high school gyms.


----------

