# torqueless d loop?



## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIp69XzHgMY

Have any of you tried one of these? Just wonder how the serving holds up wear wise?
I also figure it might give us bored string builders something to do.

He uses 8125 in this video, 8190 should work also shouldn't it?


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

So no one else has tried one of these?


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## retribution (Jul 10, 2011)

I love catfish loops myself...usually include 1or2 with every string i build ..nit sure if id wanna use the 8190 or not though,the softer less abrasive and thicker materials like 8125 is better....thats just my opinion though,try it and see what happens..ive only had issues with a few out of hundreds ive made having serving isues though..i build mine right off my jig instead of usin a 2x4 and nails so i usually add a tad bit of tension..not much maybe 30 lbs at best,just enough to keep my strands tight while serving..it does take a bit of practice to come up with your own process that you can get comfortable with and start to whip em fast and still keep quality up..i can usually do a catfish loop in roughly 5-7 minutes now..


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

thwackaddict said:


> So no one else has tried one of these?












Little hard to see,
but
it is what I use.


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

retribution said:


> I love catfish loops myself...usually include 1or2 with every string i build ..nit sure if id wanna use the 8190 or not though,the softer less abrasive and thicker materials like 8125 is better....thats just my opinion though,try it and see what happens..ive only had issues with a few out of hundreds ive made having serving isues though..i build mine right off my jig instead of usin a 2x4 and nails so i usually add a tad bit of tension..not much maybe 30 lbs at best,just enough to keep my strands tight while serving..it does take a bit of practice to come up with your own process that you can get comfortable with and start to whip em fast and still keep quality up..i can usually do a catfish loop in roughly 5-7 minutes now..


Thanks for your opinion on the 8125 vs 8190. I am new at this and was wondering what the difference might be between the two.


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## JMASavage (Feb 4, 2008)

anyone have a close up picture of one?


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## retribution (Jul 10, 2011)

Closest pics i got at moment..try and do a better when get home ..

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

brass nocks for nock points instead of tied nocksets??? i see NO benefit to a torqueless loop honestly, yes its another way to do it but no benefit, just another personal preference, not used too much as regular loops are by far the majority.

You make those single loop torqueless loops or double loops also??


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## Cajunarcher (Mar 5, 2006)

Can someone explain how it attaches to the bowstring


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Cajunarcher said:


> Can someone explain how it attaches to the bowstring



HOW to install the torqueless loop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDFrl5vb3kk


MAKING the torqueless loop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIp69XzHgMY


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## Cajunarcher (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks!


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## drewbie8 (Mar 22, 2009)

I use 8190 for mine and it seems to be holding up pretty good, i was shooting an overloop and I did notice a little bit of a difference after changing to the torque-less D loop. I personally think it helped fix my small left and right issue and shoots pretty smooth.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

dwagoner said:


> brass nocks for nock points instead of tied nocksets??? i see NO benefit to a torqueless loop honestly, yes its another way to do it but no benefit, just another personal preference, not used too much as regular loops are by far the majority.
> 
> You make those single loop torqueless loops or double loops also??


Im with you there. it also seems to add more weight to the string.


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## yakstone (Jun 30, 2008)

I am always open to different ways of doing things but see no benefit to this over the standard, well executed D-loop.


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## bucks/bulls (May 23, 2010)

To each there own...i myself have a rig setup both ways...one with a dloop and one with a tourqeless loop...i shoot better with the tourqeless loop than i did the dloop..not a huge difeerence but none the less the difference is there..i think you guys are just a lil to quick to focus on who shoots what in mass #'s...25 yrs ago there was no such thing as a dloop and using a dloop with a release aid had mixed opinions..now its pretty much an archery standard..every lil thing you do will chqnge the effect in arrow flight one way or another..with the tourqeless loop you get a lower anchor,more downward pressure on the nock of the arrow helping the shaft to stay connected with the rest longer,you only have about 1/2 the string tourqe when drawing compared with a dloop..some people are just to focused on theyre form and cant handle shooting with a new anchor placement so disregaurd the tourqeless loop as useless and say it doesnt work..no different than lets say back tensiin,some peool have tried it,couldnt master in 100 shots and deemed backtension as useless..you have to be prepared to change to your form and shooting style to try new shooting tools..ofcourse im no pro,but i have been an above average shooter for 20 yrs,so i shoot whatever im most comfortable with and i always enjoy trying out the new styles and techniques with modern archery..


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## Skel37 (Oct 6, 2012)

I have some Fast Flight .026 braided serving and Fast Flight spectra serving. Does anyone know if I can make a catfish loop or a torqueless D loop from this material? I was going to give it a try but don't know if this material is suitable.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

bucks/bulls said:


> To each there own...i myself have a rig setup both ways...one with a dloop and one with a tourqeless loop...i shoot better with the tourqeless loop than i did the dloop..not a huge difeerence but none the less the difference is there..i think you guys are just a lil to quick to focus on who shoots what in mass #'s...25 yrs ago there was no such thing as a dloop and using a dloop with a release aid had mixed opinions..now its pretty much an archery standard..every lil thing you do will chqnge the effect in arrow flight one way or another..with the tourqeless loop you get a lower anchor,more downward pressure on the nock of the arrow helping the shaft to stay connected with the rest longer,you only have about 1/2 the string tourqe when drawing compared with a dloop..some people are just to focused on theyre form and cant handle shooting with a new anchor placement so disregaurd the tourqeless loop as useless and say it doesnt work..no different than lets say back tensiin,some peool have tried it,couldnt master in 100 shots and deemed backtension as useless..you have to be prepared to change to your form and shooting style to try new shooting tools..ofcourse im no pro,but i have been an above average shooter for 20 yrs,so i shoot whatever im most comfortable with and i always enjoy trying out the new styles and techniques with modern archery..


you can use a regular Dloop setup tied as normal but put both knots together just like the "torqueless loop" and it will perform the same way, i was referring to the fact that standard loops cinch onto serving and torqueless obviously can float around. with a string that has no peep rotation issues is why i see no benefit to using a torqueless loop, NOT how its tied on but the fact that one stays tight and another can rotate easily. Had an old link to dudleys page with all the different loops and how they could be tied, had pics and everything too, wish i could find that.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

http://www.archerylive.com/Pic/d-loops.pdf

Dudley article about all the styles of loops.

"Knot a problem".


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## bucks/bulls (May 23, 2010)

Good read..like how he says the torqueless loop is his favorite..and no dwag,if you tie a dloop and put the loops together its not the same because the knots will get to tight and then wont freely move causing string tourque..


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

nuts&bolts said:


> http://www.archerylive.com/Pic/d-loops.pdf
> 
> Dudley article about all the styles of loops.
> 
> "Knot a problem".


THANKS alan thats what i was trying to find, great article and pics to illustrate all the different types of setups...


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

bucks/bulls said:


> Good read..like how he says the torqueless loop is his favorite..and no dwag,if you tie a dloop and put the loops together its not the same because the knots will get to tight and then wont freely move causing string tourque..


i understand that, thats my point, i dont see why you need a loop that spins freely on a string thats stable and no rotation issues??? with a release that has a floating head i dont see how you can need a loop that rotates on string and how that helps any for an anchor, just dont see how you can torque a regular loop if you have a good release and most typical anchor point????


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## 3SixtyOutdoors (Sep 14, 2012)

subd


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## K.G.K. (Jun 27, 2011)

I don't know if this was mentioned, but I built some Torques D Loops and tried one on my bowtech Invasion. The ATA is short and I have a 30" draw so there was an extreme string angle causing the anchor points and set up to be considerably effected (not negatively...just different). I think they are better for a longer ATA bow. I enjoyed making them and they work great. Its mainly just preference, but I resolved that I am a regular D loop guy for a hunting set up. Target may be different.


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## bucks/bulls (May 23, 2010)

Your anchor is at the side of your head...your bowstring is in front..when you draw your bow bow the difference between the two points creates string torque..even with a swivel head release there is no way to make a straight line of contact from your anchor to your string,its physically impossible..but with a tourquless you cut out about 1/2 of that tourque since the loop itself can rotate a lil bit without twisting the string..there is no way to totally eliminate string torque,but getting rid of any is better than nothing..imho its hard to beat a torqeless loop combined with a swivel head or rope style release..i have no answer as to why,but last year i started using a tourqeless on my spots rig with my handheld bt release and my x count went up signifficantly,my shots where alot more centered and the occasional miss left/right became non existant..another thing i notice that pertains to string torque,and i see this alot at shoots,is with the guys that insist shooting a wrist strap and have to have there trigger 90 degrees from there face is theyre dloops always wanna twist with the caliper jaws and thats massive string torque..but a tourqeless wont bind the string,like a dloop instead it will just twist into itself but not creating more tourqe..
Tried to explain best i could.. if it helps awesome,if it just confuses ya more then sorry..guess we'll just have to wait on alan to jump in and explain it better..

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## Cajunarcher (Mar 5, 2006)

What type of serving should be used when building a torqueless D loop. In the video he is using .026 Majesty, I am not familiar with this serving material.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Cajunarcher said:


> What type of serving should be used when building a torqueless D loop. In the video he is using .026 Majesty, I am not familiar with this serving material.


thats a $35 spool of serving, pretty big investment for a loop.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

bucks/bulls said:


> Your anchor is at the side of your head...your bowstring is in front..when you draw your bow bow the difference between the two points creates string torque..even with a swivel head release there is no way to make a straight line of contact from your anchor to your string,its physically impossible..but with a tourquless you cut out about 1/2 of that tourque since the loop itself can rotate a lil bit without twisting the string..there is no way to totally eliminate string torque,but getting rid of any is better than nothing..imho its hard to beat a torqeless loop combined with a swivel head or rope style release..i have no answer as to why,but last year i started using a tourqeless on my spots rig with my handheld bt release and my x count went up signifficantly,my shots where alot more centered and the occasional miss left/right became non existant..another thing i notice that pertains to string torque,and i see this alot at shoots,is with the guys that insist shooting a wrist strap and have to have there trigger 90 degrees from there face is theyre dloops always wanna twist with the caliper jaws and thats massive string torque..but a tourqeless wont bind the string,like a dloop instead it will just twist into itself but not creating more tourqe..
> Tried to explain best i could.. if it helps awesome,if it just confuses ya more then sorry..guess we'll just have to wait on alan to jump in and explain it better..
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


gonna have to try and take a look at some of my buddies at FD and see what i can bout this, my thoughts are a loop is flexible and not like the old metal clamp on loops and will also have little give in it if your string is burried in your face and release pulling over to side. but ive never bothered looking before either, so will now


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## panthalia (Apr 24, 2010)

Subd


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Cajunarcher said:


> What type of serving should be used when building a torqueless D loop. In the video he is using .026 Majesty, I am not familiar with this serving material.


Use any serving thread you happen to have handy.

I have made these torqueless d-loops using BCY 3D thread.
My latest one, I used bowstring material to make the torqueless d-loop.


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## Mathewsju (Jan 19, 2008)

I will make them out of 6 wraps (turns out to be 10 strands) of 8190 and use .021 halo for the serving. They wear more quickly than a regular loop but they do help bring in my groups left and right so I am more than ok with that


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## drew13 (Sep 26, 2011)

I replaced my "standard" d-loop with a torqueless loop like shown in the Dudley article that nuts&bolts linked to. I like the idea of it - no knots to come undone, less torque on the string and I really think it will last longer. I do have a question, however - I did not change my nocking point or rest at all but my POI was quite a bit lower with the torqueless loop. I shot some bareshafts and I'm getting a TINY bit of tail-low, but not enough to explain 8 to 10 inches lower POI at 10 yards. Anybody else experience this or know why it's like that?


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## knotdodger (Oct 2, 2005)

I shoot a recurve , but I believe the same deal. If you are anchoring in the same place. Now
your arrow is a bit higher than it was with the d loop. Which , makes it so you cant get quite
as much out of your sight, or arrow point on.


Rob b.


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

nuts&bolts said:


> http://www.archerylive.com/Pic/d-loops.pdf
> 
> Dudley article about all the styles of loops.
> 
> "Knot a problem".


Very nice article!


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

subscribed.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

thwackaddict said:


> Very nice article!


Better pic of my current setup,
on the OK Archery DST 40.

Torqueless works great with a blade arrow rest.


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## vhram (Jul 1, 2005)

Subscribed


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

Sweet lookin set up there nuts&bolts!


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