# 2009 Bowtech & Diamond bows *pics*!!!



## btguymt (Sep 22, 2008)

I'll leave the long-winded explanations aside. Enjoy!!!











































































































Specs next!


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## godfathergator (Jan 21, 2007)

got any stats on these bows


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## MidwestJ (Jan 1, 2007)

Holy!:shocked:


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Pics are useless without specs. :tongue:


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## bear45 (May 23, 2006)

nice...

:tongue:


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## btguymt (Sep 22, 2008)

Brace Height	Draw Weights	Draw Length	A2A	IBO	MSR
Admiral	7" 40,50,60,70	24-30 31 1/16"	320	$829	
Captain	7" 50,60,70 24-30 34"	323	$849	
Sentinel	7" 40,50,60,70	24.5-30.5 36.75	325	$849	
Brigadier 8" 40,50,60,70 25-30 40" 315 $849 
82nd 6.125 60,60,70 26.5-30.5 36.25	350	$829	
SWAT	7 1/8 50,60,70 26-31" 34"	322	$699	
/pkg $999	
Sniper	7.875 60,70 27-30 34.062	312	$649	

Iceman	7.125 40,50,60,70	26-30 31.5	323	$829	
Marquis	7" 50,60,70 26-30 34.5	322	$749	
Black Ice	7.5 50,60,70 26-30 32	318	$699	
Stud	7" 50,60,70 25-30 33.25	318	$629
Rock	7" 40,50,60,70	25-30 31.625	318	$449 
Edge	7" 29,60 19-29 31	[email protected] $299


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## dhayse32 (Jul 19, 2006)

Wow amazing!


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## Envy#21 (Dec 7, 2007)

Those new center pivots are sweet now lets just hope that they put laminated limbs on them.


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## ky_bowhunter (Mar 5, 2007)

I want specs.....they look awesome


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

btguymt said:


> Brace Height	Draw Weights	Draw Length	A2A	IBO	MSR	MAP
> Admiral	7" 40,50,60,70	24-30 31 1/16"	320	$829	$769
> Captain	7" 50,60,70 24-30 34"	323	$849	$799
> Sentinel	7" 40,50,60,70	24.5-30.5 36.75	325	$849	$799
> ...



That's more like it but you forgot the brigadier. :wink:


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## chs2inb (Dec 8, 2007)

*2009 Bowtech's*

I can't wait for specs on the ADMIRAL, heard it would be worth the wait ! !


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## ky_bowhunter (Mar 5, 2007)

Nice....Still no center pivot speed demons but plenty to choose from.


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## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

chs2inb said:


> I can't wait for specs on the ADMIRAL, heard it would be worth the wait ! !


He said 320


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## dhayse32 (Jul 19, 2006)

What kinda bow weight are we looking at?? any under 4lb???


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## chs2inb (Dec 8, 2007)

*2009 admiral*



parkerbows said:


> He said 320


 I think that my dealer, Chuck, will be ordering me at least one, maybe two new bows this time ! !


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## bear45 (May 23, 2006)

If I am looking at this right it looks like the Iceman to be the bow. 323 and a single cam, the admiral only shows 320 with binaries.


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

Man wish there was a center Pivot at about 340. Maybe next year


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## Beau_Town (Jun 17, 2006)

soooooo sweet but can't wait to shoot them


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## axp117crow (Dec 11, 2006)

thats sweet, may be trading in my black ice for that ice man, after this season of course. sweet looking bow, can't wait to shoot it!


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## SEIowaArcher (Aug 14, 2007)

That Admiral looks like a sweet hunting setup.


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

Interesting


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## SC Archer (Oct 11, 2006)

wow im totally blown away


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## canam (Apr 2, 2003)

I wonder if this meano Equalizer? We women will be out of luck if that is so.


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

:wink::tongue:


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Those round looking binary cams remind me of the cams on the GTO.


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## ArcherWolf (Oct 6, 2004)

What are they offering for target colors this year ???


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## btguymt (Sep 22, 2008)

Just got off the horn with my rep. Some new information to ponder on, All the "New for '09" bows feature rotating mods, the center-pivot bows apparently don't have E-Clips anymore, I don't have all the details on the new axle system yet but i'm working on it. From what i gather so far though no more concerns about spacingand the Admiral, Iceman, SWAT, and Sniper are coming in under 4# bow mass!!!!


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

the admiral has to way close to 5 pounds. Impressive lineup but nothing to make me want to buy another. The Iceman caught my eye the most.


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## dicksenn (Feb 26, 2006)

Any news on target colors??


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## MATXT (Aug 16, 2007)

they look like they may be pretty light weight. The risors look really skeletonized. I'm interested in finding out what they weigh. The iceman specs look good and I like the look of the new string stopper. Much better than the 08's.


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## MATXT (Aug 16, 2007)

btguymt said:


> Just got off the horn with my rep. Some new information to ponder on, All the "New for '09" bows feature rotating mods, the center-pivot bows apparently don't have E-Clips anymore, I don't have all the details on the new axle system yet but i'm working on it. From what i gather so far though no more concerns about spacingand the *Admiral, Iceman, SWAT, and Sniper are coming in under 4# bow mass!!!!*




I guess that answers my question.


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## gfasano (Jun 5, 2007)

They definately caught me off guard this year! Looks like the SWAT is an Allegiance with different cams.....I'll def be shooting one of those after deer season goes out, as well as the Admiral, Captain and Iceman.....Bowtech definately impressed me....Lets just hope tyhey shoot as good as they look!


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Theres really not much "pivot" in the center pivots. Makes me a little skiddish with those limbs having no where to go. I see that they are free'r at the pivot point but dosent seem like much movement.


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## Jhorne (Jul 15, 2003)

They relocated the string stopper too.


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## ArrowDucker (Jul 5, 2008)

*Wow!!!*

The only thing I didn't like about the General is the weight. If the Admiral is under 4lbs. I'll be ordering a new bow soon.:tongue:


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## dbowers (Mar 24, 2004)

btguymt said:


> Just got off the horn with my rep. Some new information to ponder on, All the "New for '09" bows feature rotating mods, the center-pivot bows apparently don't have E-Clips anymore, I don't have all the details on the new axle system yet but i'm working on it. From what i gather so far though no more concerns about spacingand the Admiral, Iceman, SWAT, and Sniper are coming in under 4# bow mass!!!!


Yeah man thats what i got also...I cant wait!!!


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## MATXT (Aug 16, 2007)

Bowtech needs to recognize the NCO corp.

What about the Sergeant Major:
ata- 34.5"
bh- 7 1/2"
draw weigh- 50, 60,70,80
draw length- 25"-31" with 1/2" sizes
IBO- 325 fps
single cam
mass weight- 3.85 lbs
:wink:


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

i have to say that i am really let down:sad:


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## NDarcher (Oct 27, 2006)

*New Bowtechs*

Disappointed is all that I can say.....


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## xswanted (Feb 1, 2008)

Nice stuff. I was expecting nothing less from Bowtech.

I was however surprised at the speed of the bows listed.

I was thinking they'd have a bow in the high 350s

Nice though


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## TX Rattlesnake (Jan 4, 2007)

Ice man definitely looks to be the cream of the crop.


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## terrym (Feb 25, 2005)

The Iceman looks like an amazing hunting bow. All the good features of the center pivot, roller cable guide and a single cam for smoothness. Yep, thats the one. Looks like they solved the General's defect by not offering a short ATA 8" BH bow.


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## full moon (Feb 10, 2004)

Iceman looks like a killer treestand bow....:darkbeer:


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## 10ptkicker (Mar 19, 2008)

NDarcher said:


> Disappointed is all that I can say.....


huh? i think they look awesome!


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

all i have to say is i am glad i bought my commander this summer because none of these bows grabs my attention. i like the new risers and the roller guard without the string stop attached, but the cams look like the ones of the general.
i juts was expected way more from bowtech this year. what a let down. that center pivot diamond looks cool though, but i like 2 cams


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

hey don't forget me 1 S G!:tongue: Oh with the 82nd and 101st I still fill very much at home!:wink:





MATXT said:


> Bowtech needs to recognize the NCO corp.
> 
> What about the Sergeant Major:
> ata- 34.5"
> ...


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## slackster (Jan 6, 2008)

*Bow-tech*

Nice but nothing over-powering. Kind of disappointed to be honest.


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

hardwoodhitman said:


> none of these bows grabs my attention. i like the new risers and the roller guard without the string stop attached, but the cams look like the ones of the general.
> i juts was expected way more from bowtech this year. what a let down. that center pivot diamond looks cool though, but i like 2 cams


It kinda looks like a mathews move. Nothing spectacular from last year. They made the best bow a box store bow!


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

realmfg said:


> Its kinda look a mathews move. Nothing spectacular from last year. They made the best bow a box store bow!


exactly. i guess with the general limb problems they were affraid to push the envelope too far this year. hopefully 2010 will be another break out year. my commander should hold me off until then:wink:


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## Reacher (Jul 30, 2004)

The riser on the Captain is awesome. Those lines are great. I am pretty sold out on Elite, but I'd like to shoot one just to see what it's like.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

*2009 Bowtechs*

I like the ata specs on the Captain. More like the Guardian. I also like the Iceman, but again I wish the ata was a little longer. I see the Iceman has the limb draw stop. Does anyone know if the Captain has a limb draw stop?


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

LOL
Why don't some of you guys wait until you hear about the actual details and features of the bows before you throw out the "Disappointed" card based on a picture. :wink:

Every single "issue" or concern about any of the bows has been thoughtfully and carefully addressed in the new line-up.
If you look closely, and when you see and hear about the new designs you will understand what I mean.

I've shot the Admiral, set it up and looked it over from head to toe. IMO it's the best made and most well thought out model bow that Bowtech has ever produced. 
Just wait til' you handle and shoot it and look at all the details and features of the bow itself.

If it's not the best selling bow that Bowtech has ever produced I'll be amazed.


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## Ben/PA (Feb 26, 2008)

Out West said:


> I like the ata specs on the Captain. More like the Guardian. I also like the Iceman, but again I wish the ata was a little longer. I see the Iceman has the limb draw stop. Does anyone know if the Captain has a limb draw stop?


I agree with your wish of the Iceman. I have to say, it looks good, but I am sooo glad I got my 101. I will def be hanging onto it.


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## copperdoc1 (Mar 30, 2008)

Just ordered an 82nd, but............ apperently they havent released the new target colors? ***? I got mine in Firestorm gray. But I did hear, there will be three new target colors soon! :wink:


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

Brigadier 8" 40,50,60,70 *25-30* 40" 315 $849 

Great, just great. Yet another target "spec'ed" bow without the draw length to match. Same thing with the Constitution that it replaced......what the heck are they thinking??? folks with long draw lengths don't like/need target bows??


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## plottman (Nov 15, 2003)

I am not in the market and never shot a bowtech, but I do like the fact that they moved the string tamer thing away from the nock point


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## Jhorne (Jul 15, 2003)

I'm glad they kept the 82nd. I had the 101st and 82nd and I think the 82nd is a much better shooter than the 101st was.


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## plottman (Nov 15, 2003)

now that i looked again, how does the pivot work on these since it looks solidly attached to the riser?? I must be overlooking something


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

i couldn't shoot any even if i liked them. i have a 31.5" draw and really could go with 32 but i guess there is no love for the big ole gorilla arm guys


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## dbowers (Mar 24, 2004)

Matt / PA said:


> LOL
> Why don't some of you guys wait until you hear about the actual details and features of the bows before you throw out the "Disappointed" card based on a picture. :wink:


This is exactly what I am thinking..from the discription my rep gave me on the bows; they are awesome! Redefined and cleaned up designs. No bow press, no E Clip, no mods, quiter then the general, roller bearings on the pivot and more....sounds pretty dang good imo


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## Hoyt2448XL (Jan 27, 2007)

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm also a little disappointed. For the last 2 years bowtech has blown me away with something new. First the center pivot bows, then the airborne speed bows. The 09 bows look nice and I'm sure they shoot great, but I just don't see the wow factor.


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## double o (Jul 12, 2008)

I think they look sweet but i like my 8" brace height. Im not disapponted at all but i think ill wait another year.


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## jdawg240 (Feb 20, 2007)

The iceman will be worth a good look. Center pivot with a single cam. How much noise and shock will that bow have?? Should be smooth as butter and at 320 fps??????????? Could be a keeper.


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## archeryhunterME (Feb 12, 2006)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am looking at my new bow (bows?) for 2009:darkbeer:


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## terrym (Feb 25, 2005)

dbowers said:


> This is exactly what I am thinking..from the discription my rep gave me on the bows; they are awesome! Redefined and cleaned up designs. No bow press, no E Clip, no mods, quiter then the general, roller bearings on the pivot and more....sounds pretty dang good imo


Did I read this correctly? NO MODS? Uh ohh. That I don't like one bit.


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## dbowers (Mar 24, 2004)

Why its an adjustable cam?


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

I really like the idea of the rotating module. One bow fits most is a good deal for dealers, resale, and fine tuning to that "perfect" draw length without having to run through several mods.


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

terrym said:


> Did I read this correctly? NO MODS? Uh ohh. That I don't like one bit.


He means that the draw length is adjustable. Thats good cause you wont have to be a 29" draw to shoot one off the shelf. Itll help the dealers to.


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## adamsvenom (Feb 9, 2007)

Im going to miss the Allegiance......SWAT looks sweet. Definitely like the looks of the IceMan......too bad its not my DL.

Guess I'll be going to the 82nd or SWAT, when the time comes. Or maybe an 08 Allegiance. 

Nice work BowTech/Diamond.......they look great


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## vonasemj (Nov 19, 2007)

Looks like a great line up. There is something for everyone. I was hoping for a center pivot to get me 300+ fps with my 28" draw. I can't see switching from my Marquis unless these are much lighter and quieter. I hope they are using the Bowjax stopper from the factory instead of the rubber piece they used for the 08's. It looks like I might have to try out a Z-28 or a GT500. Either way, I can't wait to shoot them.


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## MikeyL24 (Jan 28, 2007)

Looks great, nice job Bowtech.


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

:faint:


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

Oh wait, I forgot...:59:


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## Nate's Parker (Feb 16, 2005)

THAT LINE UP IS SICK


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

I got my new 3d bow picked ot.:wink:


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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

The Iceman looks pretty sweet.


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

10 new bows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW


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## archery ham (Jul 26, 2007)

Very nice.....Good job BowTech!


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## Diamond_Victory (Jul 12, 2006)

Very nice line up, some good looking bows, can someone tell me what the benefits to the centerpivot are on the bows.

thanks


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## cgchris99 (Apr 10, 2003)

What color are the new diamonds?


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## jpm_mq2 (May 22, 2004)

The Sentinel looks perfect to me.Cant wait to shoot one.


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

Has anyone else noticed that the admiral and the iceman are similar in spec with the iceman having a slighter longer brace height?  And the the single cam is IBO'd faster? HMMM?


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## double o (Jul 12, 2008)

Diamond_Victory said:


> Very nice line up, some good looking bows, can someone tell me what the benefits to the centerpivot are on the bows.
> 
> thanks


t:

To be dead in your hands and to make them vibration free. Shoot one you will understand. :wink:


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## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

If the Equalizer (or comparable) is gone, I'll be ordering from another company...


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

BTHQ

Go ahead and send me a "Iceman" I'll do a fair and unbiased review on Addix for you ... 
It'll be cheap shipping...
:wink:

That's the best I can do at this point

Deal?


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## smurphysgirl (Mar 6, 2007)

canam said:


> I wonder if this meano Equalizer? We women will be out of luck if that is so.


??? I wonder the same thing... is the Equalizer off the line for 2009???


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## LBmaN (Mar 30, 2008)

That captain looks sweet!


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

hunter_tlh said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the admiral and the iceman are similar in spec with the iceman having a slighter longer brace height? And the the single cam is IBO'd faster? HMMM?


The Admiral IBO is 340 and not 320 as listed.


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

We are getting so close to a 1k per bow


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## gobblercrazy (May 9, 2008)

wow look like some good bows!:wink::tongue:


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## crankin (Mar 30, 2007)

helix33 said:


> The Admiral IBO is 340 and not 320 as listed.


i hope this is true i really like the center pivot look/feel but those numbers are pretty boring. If its 340 i'll most likely be back if not im goin elite


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## jrsarch (Apr 11, 2007)

looks like a iceman for me!!! great job bowtech!:wink:


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

helix33 said:


> The Admiral IBO is 340 and not 320 as listed.


OK 340 makes me feel a little better.. I might even think about that one....


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

hunter_tlh said:


> OK 340 makes me feel a little better.. I might even think about that one....


Ya that changes a lot if its true


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## KurtVL (Nov 22, 2005)

looks pretty sweet, wonder when BT will have AT pull this thread?


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

crash_gsxr750 said:


> looks pretty sweet, wonder when BT will have AT pull this thread?


Im sure it was planned my friend


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

crash_gsxr750 said:


> looks pretty sweet, wonder when BT will have AT pull this thread?


it's too late.. already copied to the hard drive...:wink:


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## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

I like the Captain, 34" bows just seem to feel the best to me.

Is the IBO of 323fps correct for this model ? Or should it be 343fps :tongue: , similar to the Admiral ?

FF


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

I will be interested in seeing how the Admiral draws compared to the General. I could not get use to the General's draw and went a second year without a new bow purchase from Bowtech. If it really has a 340 IBO I want to shoot it. 

Are there any other details that can be given yet? If not when will they be available? Like standard camo and options, is the Invelvet finish still around and when will the dealers start to see them?

Thanks,
Greg.


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

xtremetj said:


> I will be interested in seeing how the Admiral draws compared to the General. I could not get use to the General's draw and went a second year without a new bow purchase from Bowtech. If it really has a 340 IBO I want to shoot it.
> 
> Are there any other details that can be given yet? If not when will they be available? Like standard camo and options, is the Invelvet finish still around and when will the dealers start to see them?
> 
> ...


What couldn't you get used to with the General? Man.. That thing was way easy to pull compared even to my Allegiance..


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## Mike from Texas (May 15, 2004)

hunter_tlh said:


> What couldn't you get used to with the General? Man.. That thing was way easy to pull compared even to my Allegiance..


Not to me. The 82nd drew smoother than the General to me.


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## vonasemj (Nov 19, 2007)

If the Admiral is actually 340 fps, I think I found myself a new bow. Those are the specs I was waiting for.


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

hunter_tlh said:


> What couldn't you get used to with the General? Man.. That thing was way easy to pull compared even to my Allegiance..


I have a general and a GTO. Previously owned an allegiance and a tribute. General is the worst to draw by far with that hump.


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

hunter_tlh said:


> What couldn't you get used to with the General? Man.. That thing was way easy to pull compared even to my Allegiance..


I had two Tributes and an Allegiance and would not trade any of them for the General. I don't care what everyone says....it didn't draw smooth to me. Yes it was very quiet and shock free but that's about it for me. I dropped off so hard. Hopefully Bowtech fixed this with the Admiral. I'm guessing I'm not the only one that thought this or the General would still be in the line up. JMO.

Greg.


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## VAarrowslinger (Sep 12, 2007)

*no 101?*

Is there seriously no 101st or another bow with similar specs? not impressed if thats the case.


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## Tax Lawyer (Feb 5, 2003)

Any new camo? Mossy Oak Treestand?


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## Kss_Waylander (Aug 26, 2008)

if that captain is 343 its my next bow


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## Takeum (Jul 22, 2005)

Geez, and with all the issues they had with Center pivot bows this past year., they drop the bows that made them money and made more center pivot bows? I don't get it! They also got rid of their only short draw speed demon? WHy? WHy? WHy?


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## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

vhunter said:


> I'm also a little disappointed. For the last 2 years bowtech has blown me away with something new. First the center pivot bows, then the airborne speed bows. The 09 bows look nice and I'm sure they shoot great, but I just don't see the wow factor.



It's in the features which you cannot see from a picture. The release of these pics were premature with out the specs and more. 



> This is exactly what I am thinking..from the discription my rep gave me on the bows; they are awesome! Redefined and cleaned up designs. No bow press, no E Clip, no mods, quiter then the general, roller bearings on the pivot and more....sounds pretty dang good imo


Exactly, my understanding of this/these bow/bows is the incredible features.


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## Takeum (Jul 22, 2005)

for the extra money,, they oughta have Run Flat Tires installed as well.... I think I paid $649.00 for my 2009 Elite


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## Mike from Texas (May 15, 2004)

Ho Hum.








The Admiral will be the hot seller if it is indeed 340fps. Too short for my likings though. 

Now I'm waiting to see what Hoyt brings to the table. If nothing better than the Katera, I will buy a Katera next year.


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

Mike from Texas said:


> Ho Hum.
> View attachment 456883
> 
> 
> ...


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## Envy#21 (Dec 7, 2007)

Incredible features, what do they have that every other bow company doesnt? Short stop, roller guard... I mean there really isnt to much that you can do to a bow that everyone else doesnt also do. 



Poorguy said:


> It's in the features which you cannot see from a picture. The release of these pics were premature with out the specs and more.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, my understanding of this/these bow/bows is the incredible features.


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## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

helix33 said:


> The Admiral IBO is 340 and not 320 as listed.


Correction ! The Admiral is around 320fps., not 340fps. and the Captain is 323 fps.

FF


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## PONDER (Sep 8, 2007)

FallFever said:


> Correction ! The Admiral is around 320fps., not 340fps. and the Captain is 323 fps.
> 
> FF


source?


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## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Envy#21 said:


> Incredible features, what do they have that every other bow company doesnt? Short stop, roller guard... I mean there really isnt to much that you can do to a bow that everyone else doesnt also do.


It will be known soon enough. You cannot see them all in the pics. :zip::wink:


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## Frank/PA (Feb 20, 2003)

*most innovative*

Maybe it is just me but I really do not see other bow manufacturers making as many innovations as BOWTECH does year after year. They contniue to set the tone in my opinion. Nice line up.


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## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

coreyponder said:


> source?


"Matt / PA", It doesn't get any more reliable than him.

FF


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## jdcamo (Sep 18, 2006)

I really like my 82 nd. I hate when they come out with new bows. It just makes me want to buy a new bow!


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## MikeTN (Nov 2, 2004)

Nice Looking lineup.

Looks like some additional milling on the risers to cut down weight on new models.

Also looks like the Admiral, Captain, Sentinel, and Brigadier have the control cables on opposite sides of the cam like the CP cams did.

Brigadier looks like an 07 / 08 Constitution riser with roller guard.

Sling holes in the riser of the Admiral, Captain and Sentinel.

Cable posts on Admiral, Captain, and Sentinel seem to be silver- a seperate piece from the cam?

Also no pivot arms on the center pivot models- they're a solid design now- I like that. My guess is that the limbs do not have the dimple in them anymore to position them on the pivot? (With the previous cp limbs fixed to the pivot you had to have the pivot point on the riser- no need now).

The Bow Man logo is also not used on any model except the 82nd from the looks of it. I had heard he was going away.

Overall looks great!


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## Gary73 (Jan 11, 2008)

Admiral and Iceman look nice, but I dont think any of the new bows will replace my 08 Marquis as there advertised IBO's are not really grabbing my attention. 

The new Pearson at 70# 30" 361fps does sound like an option. 

BT/Diamond do make nice bows though, its a nice line up.


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

I like what I see, can't wait to actually get my hands on some to play with.
That Diamond Iceman and the Admiral, I have a feeling are gonna be *BIG HITs* on the market. :tongue:


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## Oxymoron (Sep 15, 2007)

The updated center pivot design doesn't seem to have moving parts for the pivot arms, which will probably enhance dynamic efficiency.

Still, after the General limb issue, I'd probably wait for reviews before getting one, although I believe the new design might actually relieve limb stress.


----------



## ArchersParadox (May 12, 2005)

This thread is hauntingly familiar to last year's thread when the pics on the 82nd and 101st were first "leaked out."

A lot of NAYSAYERS....until people actually picked up the bows, handled them, drew them back...and

ACTUALLY SHOT THEM....


If it make you "feel" better to say you are disappointed based upon ONE picture....than you are only showing your intelligence...

Once again....Bowtech has VALIDATED the

technology in Bow*tech*


----------



## HATEoftheNORTH (Sep 20, 2008)

Nice Lineup! But looking first 4 the tech. specs!
So meanwhile i will kep my hand held high over the Commander and Guardian!

But the iceman looks realy awesome!!! :wink:


----------



## ArcherWolf (Oct 6, 2004)

I am really impressed with the line up. At first glance it seems like there is not much change but when you consider the first two center pivot bows offered in 2007 which were the Guardian and the Commander. The design of those two bows were and still are the most innovative design we have today from any manufacturer. This year Bowtech followed the trends and some other proven technology and incorporated them into the General. Granted, the General has some problems of its own, it is still the quietest most shock/vibration free bow in existance. Judging from what I can see so far, it looks to me like they have taken the center pivot bows to a whole new level of REFINEMENT. I look at the two previous model years as the testing grounds for the 2009's. That is how Hoyt got to the Katera. We all remember their first parallel limb bow... need I say more ?? With Bowtech, they have implemented every technology available and built a whole new line-up which I think will even surpass the General. 

And to all you nay sayers that have remarks about the Generals "limb problem". At least Bowtech has the bollocks to admit when there is a problem and take responsible action to correct it.


----------



## HATEoftheNORTH (Sep 20, 2008)

Hey ArcherWolf,

this thread was complete "limb problem" free before you posted!!! :shade::shade:


----------



## ratfart (Jan 20, 2005)

I think they look freakin' awesome!
And it's about time they named a bow after ME..... the STUD!!
No wait a minute, that would have been called the DUD! :wink:
I'm sad to see the Allegiance and Equilizer gone but I'm anxious to get my hands on a few of those babies, esp. the Ice Man!


----------



## TheMick (Jan 1, 2008)

I'm extremely impressed. Those bows really look awesome. I won't buy one since I bought a new bow last year, but man those are nice. Can't imagine that anything else that comes out will have more innovative components. I can't wait to see that Iceman... single cam, center pivot, 320's... thats amazing.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

Looks like a great lineup. Only thing that I would have liked to see is a Center Pivot around 340 IBO. Maybe they are already pushing the limits. I'll leave that to their engineers. The shock stop repositioning was a must.:darkbeer:


----------



## naubusan (Mar 23, 2007)

Is that 82nd roller guard redesigned? or same as old one except shortstop removed from it.


----------



## Big Eazy (Mar 12, 2007)

Awesome looking lin-up. Way to go Bowtech.


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## parkerbows (Oct 27, 2004)

I really don't care if its a 320 or 340.plenty fast for me


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## Bowup882 (Feb 11, 2007)

I was told yesterday that all the IBO speeds on the new bows is very conservative, and not to be suprised to see birth certificate speeds exceeding the print IBO. Also, was tod the Admiral will do 330. Should know next week. Wh.o.o...., Mama, I can't wait.


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## HATEoftheNORTH (Sep 20, 2008)

310fps...320fps...340fps...360fps...

who wants to hunt motorblocks??????????


----------



## spiaailtli (Sep 5, 2007)

Okay, Hang on a minute....

The center support limb breaking design everyone said was great, smooth quite, shock free, etc that test showed was noisy, heavy, wasn't dead in the hand, nor was it smooth or quite has been fixed and people are complaining about it???

So long as they didn't remove too much metal and creat new issues with the riser, it looks to me like this is exactly what bowtech should have done. Sounds to me like they learned a lesson and became a little smarter.

You can't just throw new designs out left and right and expect to not have problems. This is the stuff the non-technical folks and non engineers complain about with Mathews. The stuff that makes Mathews better than Bowtech is under the hood where you can see it.

This looks to me like a bunch of under the hood good stuff. This is the kind of stuff that shows who the men are and who's still a boy.

Sounds like they full well knew about all the design issues on their bows and addressed each one to the best of their abilities. New center pivot design, fix the string stopper, smooth draw (we hope), ligher weight, new cams and axles, no eclips, some if not all require no bow press, etc. 

Holy crap...quit your *****'n and enjoy all the fixes you blowies just got. Sounds to me like this is the long awaited for "New and Improved Bowtech company"

Don't get all hung up on speed and off the wall designs. That's what got Bowtech in trouble to begin with. These are solid changes that someone put some time and effort into. If bow tech took this approach every year it wouldn't be long before they had a design for each bow that never broke.

If these new fixes are half as good as they look up front I say well done! 

Time will tell but I like the direction and the statement they just made. I think Bowtech just grew up.


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Scottie/PA said:


> Looks like a great lineup. Only thing that I would have liked to see is a Center Pivot around 340 IBO. Maybe they are already pushing the limits. I'll leave that to their engineers. The shock stop repositioning was a must.:darkbeer:


Someone said the Admiral is 340 ibo that the specs were wrong. Makes sense to me since the single ICEMAN was faster then the dual cam ADMIRAL in the specs that were listed.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Matt / PA said:


> LOL
> Why don't some of you guys wait until you hear about the actual details and features of the bows before you throw out the "Disappointed" card based on a picture. :wink:
> 
> Every single "issue" or concern about any of the bows has been thoughtfully and carefully addressed in the new line-up.
> ...



So these are all legit Matt?

Oh....and........:tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue:


----------



## Mr. Burns (Apr 21, 2008)

I am going to have the boss call today and see how quick I can get one! well.. atleast one of each in the stud and ice man and one of each of the bowtechs! beautiful! I am mezmerized!


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

spiaailtli said:


> Okay, Hang on a minute....
> 
> The center support limb breaking design everyone said was great, smooth quite, shock free, etc that test showed was noisy, heavy, wasn't dead in the hand, nor was it smooth or quite has been fixed and people are complaining about it???
> QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Tax Lawyer said:


> Any new camo? Mossy Oak Treestand?



:tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue:


----------



## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

does anyone else think the swat looks exactly like an elite? Someone probably has said it but if you make it black its almost the same riser.


----------



## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

NYBowhunter911 said:


> :tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue:


I actaully seen in a bowtech book that MO treestand was available for 2008 models. Never seen one but it was in the book that bowtech sends out.


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## zhunter62 (Feb 3, 2007)

can you say bowtech PSE hybrid


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

zhunter62 said:


> can you say bowtech PSE hybrid


I thought the same looking at the "Iceman".....X-Force limbs!:tongue:

Are the 101st, Commanders, Guardians, and Generals phased out totally?


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

BowtechArch said:


> This thread is hauntingly familiar to last year's thread when the pics on the 82nd and 101st were first "leaked out."
> 
> A lot of NAYSAYERS....until people actually picked up the bows, handled them, drew them back...and
> 
> ...


actually i was pumped last year about the 101st until i shot one. i ended up with the commander and i love it. how does my saying i am disappointed show that i have a lack of intelligence? i see nothing in the line up that i like. there are zero draw lengths that fit me and i hate those general cams. but i guess that since i don't agree with your opinion, i somehow lack intelligence.


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## bigscott (Apr 13, 2008)

i have not found anything that could get me to put my 05 ally down till now -

the captain looks like it  -- cant wait to shoot one -- nice lineup !!


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## DBL4ARMSHIVVER (May 1, 2008)

I'm guessing with the cams looking so much like the general and 1" shorter brace height these Ibo numbers have got to be on the slow side. Hopefully.


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

I agree. Until this year Bowtech was the only big manufacturer that seemed to remember that there were us folks out there that had 31" + draw lengths in their flagship bows. The Old Glory and Commander were there with the previous couple innovation cycles and now we're left with nothing except the "lower tiered", at least based on the price SWAT.

Way to go Bowtech? phoey. 




hardwoodhitman said:


> actually i was pumped last year about the 101st until i shot one. i ended up with the commander and i love it. how does my saying i am disappointed show that i have a lack of intelligence? i see nothing in the line up that i like. there are zero draw lengths that fit me and i hate those general cams. but i guess that since i don't agree with your opinion, i somehow lack intelligence.


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## deermaster (Feb 4, 2005)

i sent a pm to a guy on this thread,and although he could not outright say, he hinted that the limbs will be a suprising improvemnt. i have owned a bowtec,k and i had multiple limbs problems with it, but the feel of the shot and rock solid wall is burnt in my brain forever. if the limbs are indeed improved, i WILL do every thing in my power to own one by next hunting season! thanks bowtech for listening...(i think)...!!!


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## LURP DOG (Aug 12, 2008)

I wish the SWAT had a little larger brace height and was done in all black! To me, when I think of SWAT, I think BLACK not camo!


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## zhunter62 (Feb 3, 2007)

can you say bowtech PSE hybrid


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

Ron Meadows said:


> I agree. Until this year Bowtech was the only big manufacturer that seemed to remember that there were us folks out there that had 31" + draw lengths in their flagship bows. The Old Glory and Commander were there with the previous couple innovation cycles and now we're left with nothing except the "lower tiered", at least based on the price SWAT.
> 
> Way to go Bowtech? phoey.


not only the draw lengths, but the ata's. with my long draw i don't wat a 31" ata. the only bow that i would consider is the 82nd because of the ata but then again it has a short brace height and doesn't draw back far enough for me. i wasn't planning on a new purchase this year anyways but i was pumped to see what was in store for 09. i'm sure they are all great shooting bows but i'm just not impressed.


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## spiaailtli (Sep 5, 2007)

joffutt1 said:


> I dont know what test you heard from but there have been many polls on here having the general as the quietest bow ever made. Even PSE had in there test that it was the only bow under 80db.  Def shock free. Where you gettin your stats?



I've seen 3 or 4 test where they tested the General in a lab with high end equipment and it didn't fare very well. Not that is was bad but it wasn't the best by a long shot. The test checked sound levels at the bow, 3 feet, 5 feet and 10 feet. Also transducers where connected to check for vibration. Draw force curve showed a mess with humps, lumps and noise when the bow was drawn. 
In one test the two other bows tested on the same equipment couldn't have been any smoother if you would have drawn them on a screen suing a CAD program while the bowtech looked like it was taken when driving on a gravel wash board road. 

Also just so you know there are 3 majot players with bows in the 72 db range for a full 10 db difference in test I seen. Most test with out of the bow Generals show 80 db to 82 db. every once in awhile you get a test that shows them just under 80 db. Still, that a big difference. To make matter worse there is one bow on the market that comes in under 50 db in every test i've seen. What you will notice is no one will put their bow up against it when doing these test.

What you'll learn is you need to take abotu 4 or 5 of these test and merge the data. It isn't uncommon for companies to do the "give and take" results. They are betting on folk being educated enough to know that "give" is by such a small margin it can't possibly out weigh the takes. The equipment is setup to favor one over the other.

In one test I seen a guy wanted Bear to win. He finnally move the sound equipment to 20 yards, put string devices on, limbsavers, etc. and then justified his better rating with the pitch of the noise he was testing for being lower. If you know anything about sound you could have highs and lows many DB a part. This guy argued deer couldn't hear the low only the highs so he didn't include the low results. Pretty freak'n funny. people bought it too.

You have to understand who's doing the test, if the company sponsors the test or magazine, what equipmetn is being used and how it is setup. if you've never done these test before variations from standard testing with blow right over your head and you'll not know they are playing games.

I pay more attention to standards based testing. Test results that show a manufacture has a problem ( no advertising money changing hands ) and detail about how the test were conducted so you know if they are playing games.

I've talked to some writer/testers that said they give a company 3 chances to correct issues found durring test that make them look bad. After 3 corrections it is noted either as a preproduction example they were testing or they just leave that model out of the test. Have you ever wondered why a popular bow wasn't reviewed beside others? have you ever wondered why one you know was better was not tested at the same time? 

Biting the hand that feeds you is never good, so games will be played pure and simple.


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## hilltophunter (Feb 13, 2005)

Again they just raise the bar in innovation whoooo hoooo!!! When are the release dates?


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## Shortstrider (Jan 20, 2008)

so it appears the sentinal has the fastest ibo of the new design center pivot? or yoke ...if this is true i want now !!!! love my commander but tis a tad slow, but makes up with accuracy


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

eh....at least the risers look better on the center pivot bows....the iceman looks like the best of the bunch.


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## Tas (Dec 4, 2007)

No need to shoot bowtech in 2009.

Where the h*ll are 31.5"-32" DL bows?!


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## GreatID (Apr 2, 2008)

Awesome bows.


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

Tas said:


> No need to shoot bowtech in 2009.
> 
> Where the h*ll are 31.5"-32" DL bows?!


+1:darkbeer:


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## broadfieldpoint (Oct 12, 2006)

Hmmm.....I will say this.....they dont look as good as previous bows...why the new line up without the General?.....

Man...lets bring back the Tribute and be done with it!


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## buck-n-nuts (Feb 23, 2007)

TIceMan is the bow i will be checking out...
Single cam,center pivot.With good speed and brace height,That sounds like it will be the hunting bow to be beat!!!!


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

First thought that came to mind.... UUUUUUUGGGGGLLY!! ukey:

who knows... maybe they'll grow on me in time... But for now thinking they made a fine set of boat anchors...


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

broadfieldpoint said:


> Hmmm.....I will say this.....they dont look as good as previous bows...why the new line up without the General?.....
> 
> Man...lets bring back the Tribute and be done with it!


Why go backwards when you can go sideways :wink: Actually that Iceman looks like it will be their next Tribute.....A single cam with decent speed, a draw stop...and hopefully does not need a press with the center pivot...not too short of an ATA...good BH...nice camo....That's my idea of a hunting bow.. :nod:


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*Interesting*

I think the new center pivots look better than the Guardian/Commander/General. I wonder if there is any real difference in the limbs, or just the rivet thing. I am also wondering if the single cams really are that close to the binary bows in IBO, or are those speeds a little generous? If I would be picking right now, the Sentinel looks pretty good, or just go with the SWAT (Allegiance?). JMHO


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## Shortstrider (Jan 20, 2008)

is that hd green camo?


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## CHAMPION2 (May 6, 2004)

Is the Swat basically the new Allegiance???


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## WNYBowhunter (Jan 15, 2006)

Those are all very, very nice looking bows. Looks like Bowtech has a great lineup.
The only problem for me, is I am in the market for a short draw bow like the Equalizer which now is gone in 2009.
Makes my 2009 bow decision easier.


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## Pixies (Sep 21, 2002)

Any news about the Target Colors?

Thank you
Henrique


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Can anyone put the pictures on in a different format. I can't view the pics!!!!!


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## Envy#21 (Dec 7, 2007)

Very true and now on the forum has ever shot these bows. I like the looks of the new center pivots, they are a little slow but people have been killing animals with bows much slower for the last 500 years. 



Poorguy said:


> It will be known soon enough. You cannot see them all in the pics. :zip::wink:


----------



## dzingale (Mar 11, 2004)

I think that I might have to own A new Captain or possibly A Iceman. Or maybe both


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## Bert2 (Feb 16, 2003)

Thanks for making it easy for me -- nothing with draw length over 31", I don't need to be thinking about a new Bowtech this year!


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## MDHunter80 (May 28, 2008)

*The Edge*

So the edge is coming in now at 50-60#. That is awesome if so. 2008 was only 20-30, 30-40, and 40-50. I have the 40-50 now but may be moving up to the 50-60 eventually.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

I would wait until we see/hear the specs DIRECTLY from Bowtech before writing them off.


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## ecm (Oct 7, 2005)

realmfg said:


> We are getting so close to a 1k per bow





Takeum said:


> for the extra money,, they oughta have Run Flat Tires installed as well.... I think I paid $649.00 for my 2009 Elite


Those prices are MSRP, not MAP :wink:


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## Honeymonster (Nov 3, 2005)

Just found this on the web. Not sure if it is authentic, but have look.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

*2009 Bowtechs*

I'm kind of partial to the ata specs of the Captain. Does anyone know what type of draw stops will be on that bow? Will it be like the Guardian, or will their be limb or cable stops on it? For any of those who have shot the Captain, can you compare it to the Guardian? Does it have a smooth draw and a more solid wall? Just trying to see if I need to put my Guardian up for sale.:wink: Any by the way, when will these bows be available at the dealers to test out?


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I see lots and lots of mechanical improvements in their lineup this year. :thumb:


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## gfasano (Jun 5, 2007)

That looks like someone shining a blacklight on a camo 09 Bowtech Captain


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## Grand River Zip (Jun 29, 2006)

*Full Draw*

I look forward to Full draw photos of those center pivot designs.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

tsilvers said:


> First thought that came to mind.... UUUUUUUGGGGGLLY!! ukey:
> 
> who knows... maybe they'll grow on me in time... But for now thinking they made a fine set of boat anchors...


Tim,
You are some sort of a PSE rep are you not?
I'm curious as to why I continually see you speaking the way you do about a competitors product, and only ours it seems? 

I am aware of your past history with Bowtech so that type of thing really comes across as unprofessional and "axe grinding" petty.It's also a bit anonymous given that the majority here do not know you used to be associated with us, and are now with another manufacturer.

If you are indeed associated with PSE do they condone that style of behavior?


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## 350 FPS (Sep 3, 2006)

Meh!!


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## sclampa (Sep 18, 2005)

BADASS:thumbs_up


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## jkeiffer (Aug 3, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Tim,
> You are some sort of a PSE rep are you not?
> I'm curious as to why I continually see you speaking the way you do about a competitors product, and only ours it seems?
> 
> ...


Just because a guy may or maynot be associated with another company he is not entitled to an opinion of another product? he said nothing about the functionality of the bow, strictly on the looks of the bow. 

quit trying to start a fight and cause more animosity between certain archers on a thread that has remained civil thus far.

later
jkeiffer


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

COOL!!! I have been waiting to see that Brigadier!!!

Thank-god! When the annoucement of the connie leaving broke I about choked!

Any clues on colors... Still have the flat black?


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## joffutt1 (Mar 23, 2008)

Matt / PA said:


> Tim,
> You are some sort of a PSE rep are you not?
> I'm curious as to why I continually see you speaking the way you do about a competitors product, and only ours it seems?
> 
> ...


Agreed.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

jkeiffer said:


> Just because a guy may or maynot be associated with another company he is not entitled to an opinion of another product? he said nothing about the funtionality of the bow, strictly on the looks of the bow.
> 
> quit trying to start a fight and cause more animosity between certain archers on a thread that has remained civil thus far.
> 
> ...


Says the guy on PSE's Pro Staff. LOL :wink:


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## semostixx (Oct 25, 2007)

*Pics*

I'm with Bo Bob, can anyone post the pics in a different format. I am blocked from photobucket here at work and not being able to see the pics is killing me!!!


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

Poorguy said:


> It will be known soon enough. You cannot see them all in the pics. :zip::wink:


From what I seen on the first page... I believe there is still something not showing? I am definately still hoping :wink:

I was SO hoping for a 40" ATA diamond single cam w/smooth and fast mods???


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Supershark said:


> From what I seen on the first page... I believe there is still something not showing? I am definately still hoping :wink:
> 
> I was SO hoping for a 40" ATA diamond single cam w/smooth and fast mods???


Don't hold your breath.
:wink:


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## Tax Lawyer (Feb 5, 2003)

*Matt / PA*

Could you confirm the IBO speed of the Admiral?

What camo options are available for 2009?


----------



## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Tax Lawyer said:


> Could you confirm the IBO speed of the Admiral?
> 
> *What camo options are available for 2009?*



X2:tongue:


----------



## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I think the new line up looks great. Smoothed up engineering and lines with good speed. High speeds need high draw force and I personaly don't need that effort, I want to have fun hunting and shooting. If these new bows are butter smooth, BowTech and Diamond will have another great year to say the least:tongue:

By the way, Cabelas is only 29.3 miles from my house and a Diamond might be in my future for '09.:darkbeer:


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## jkeiffer (Aug 3, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Says the guy on PSE's Pro Staff. LOL :wink:


and I would say the same thing for anyone else on any other staff, be it, Darton, Elite, Mathews, Horton, Hoyt, Wisper Creek, Kodiak, Martin, HCA, Pearson, Parker, Barnsdale, Lakota, Bear, Bladerunner, Onieda, and Monster, sorry if I missed any.

the point is on this thread when anyone else but a staff shooter says something about not likeing the bows for looks or specs they have not been called out to this level.

later
jkeiffer


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## jkeiffer (Aug 3, 2007)

Iceman bottom cam bears a close resemblance to the sniper and swat cams with a different tracks/modules I'm sure.


----------



## MoBOWhunter181 (Jul 2, 2007)

Kudo's to Bowtech, 9 new bows. I don't see any other company doin that. The Iceman looks sick, Chuck Lidell might be headed in the woods with me next fall.


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Tax Lawyer said:


> Could you confirm the IBO speed of the Admiral?
> 
> What camo options are available for 2009?



TL,

The Admiral is 320 top end.

Camo is standard HD Green on Bowtech and Hardwoods HD on the Diamonds like last year.........the following are available on all bows except the Diamond Edge as an upcharge:

HD Green on a Diamond
Hardwoods HD on a Bowtech
APG HD
AP HD
Max 4 HD
MO Brush
Next FLX Digital
Camowest Vanish Hybrid
Gore Optifade concealment technology


----------



## Tax Lawyer (Feb 5, 2003)

Matt / PA said:


> TL,
> 
> The Admiral is 320 top end.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


----------



## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

Matt / PA said:


> TL,
> 
> The Admiral is 320 top end.
> 
> ...


Still have MAX4 but,
How about target?


----------



## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Nuts........no Treestand....


----------



## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

* I feel like a kid at christmas!​ *


----------



## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Hemingway said:


> If the Equalizer (or comparable) is gone, I'll be ordering from another company...





smurphysgirl said:


> ??? I wonder the same thing... is the Equalizer off the line for 2009???


If you guys look at the specs there are 3 bows that get down to the 24" short draw. The Admiral and Captain both go to 24" and the Sentinal goes down to 24.5"


----------



## deer slayr (Nov 1, 2006)

Supershark said:


> How about target?


I agree, lets see some target colors. C'MON I'M DYIN HERE:wink:.


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Archery-Addiction said:


> Had it been 340, or even close to that they would fly off the shelf if the draw was decent. Being they are 320, they may be hard to push.


Being most likely quieter, and with less recoil and vibration than a General but with more speed ,addressed cable clearance, (obviously addressed limbs), full draw length adjustment built in, new suppressor, solid riser with no Eclips or "Scary" moving parts, the ability to completely relax the bow without a bow press, adustable draw stop peg, new bolt through axle design to eliminate loose E-clips spacers and shims, perfect balance and around a 4# or less mass weight?................I'm thinking she's going to do just fine. :RockOn:


----------



## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

Not only that but there are 5 that can be 40lbs
and there are a bunch that will go 50lbs.

Heck the Brigadier does 40lbs 
I am thinking "New" spots bow...


----------



## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

*Captain*



Matt / PA said:


> Being most likely quieter, and with less recoil and vibration than a General but with more speed ,addressed cable clearance, (obviously addressed limbs), full draw length adjustment built in, new suppressor, solid riser with no Eclips or "Scary" moving parts, the ability to completely relax the bow without a bow press, adustable draw stop peg, new bolt through axle design to eliminate loose E-clips spacers and shims, perfect balance and around a 4# or less mass weight?................I'm thinking she's going to do just fine. :RockOn:


You mentioned a draw stop peg. I'm assuming this is on the Captain as well. Is it a peg that stops on the limb or cable? I'm trying to get comparisons between the Guardian and the Captain, as far as draw cycle and back wall? Any info would be great. You can even pm me if you don't want to post openly.:wink: When will these bows be at the dealers to try?


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

deer slayr said:


> I agree, lets see some target colors. C'MON I'M DYIN HERE:wink:.


Some new colors for this year.......
Bowtech
Firestorm Candy Red
Firestorm Candy Green
Firestorm Candy Purple
Testerossa

Available on everything but the Sniper.

Diamond
Firestorm Candy Blue (available ONLY on the Iceman)


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Out West said:


> You mentioned a draw stop peg. I'm assuming this is on the Captain as well. Is it a peg that stops on the limb or cable? I'm trying to get comparisons between the Guardian and the Captain, as far as draw cycle and back wall? Any info would be great. You can even pm me if you don't want to post openly.:wink: When will these bows be at the dealers to try?


They are a limb draw stop post for the same rock solid backwall.........

When they get there is up to when the dealers decide to place an order. :wink: 
I can't give an exact date but they will start shipping in the near future based upon orders taken of course.....if you want to see one get on your dealer.


----------



## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

Candy Green! sweet I am sure it is no Fusion liek the 06 hoyts but it will work!

they are not going to do some goofy chrome limb pockets or anything are they?
Hopefully same color as the bow.


----------



## MikeTN (Nov 2, 2004)

The new bows will also be on the trailer if you're near Columbus, OH, Orlando, FL, Fort Worth, TX, or Atlanta, GA when it makes its rounds through there.

My understanding is that the Southhaven, MS stop was the last one with the 08 bows.


----------



## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

MikeTN said:


> The new bows will also be on the trailer if you're near Columbus, OH, Orlando, FL, Fort Worth, TX, or Atlanta, GA when it makes its rounds through there.
> 
> My understanding is that the Southhaven, MS stop was the last one with the 08 bows.


When is it going to Columbus?


----------



## MikeTN (Nov 2, 2004)

Supershark said:


> When is it going to Columbus?


Oct 10 and 11.

http://www.bowtecharchery.com/trailer/


----------



## Honeymonster (Nov 3, 2005)

So is this Cosmos Blue the Candy purple or a fake?


----------



## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

MikeTN said:


> Oct 10 and 11.
> 
> http://www.bowtecharchery.com/trailer/


So it should be stocked with the new ones in Nelsonville, Ohio?


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

jmad said:


> What about target colours?



Keep up.:wink:


----------



## bowhnter7 (Dec 6, 2004)

jmad said:


> What about target colours?


Quote:
Originally Posted by deer slayr 
I agree, lets see some target colors. C'MON I'M DYIN HERE. 

Some new colors for this year.......
Bowtech
Firestorm Candy Red
Firestorm Candy Green
Firestorm Candy Purple
Testerossa

Available on everything but the Sniper.

Diamond
Firestorm Candy Blue (available ONLY on the Iceman


----------



## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Some new colors for this year.......
> Bowtech
> Firestorm Candy Red
> Firestorm Candy Green
> ...


So only the iceman comes in a target color?

what about the marquis....


----------



## jmad (Jun 26, 2006)

Matt / PA said:


> Keep up.:wink:


Thanks:embara:

Any idea when they will be in the UK?


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Kale said:


> So only the iceman comes in a target color?
> 
> what about the marquis....


I thought that was pretty clear as posted. :wink:


----------



## Oxymoron (Sep 15, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Tim,
> You are some sort of a PSE rep are you not?
> I'm curious as to why I continually see you speaking the way you do about a competitors product, and only ours it seems?
> 
> ...


I think you have to admit that the new design looks a bit... peculiar, even more so than the previous generation of center pivots, IMO.

A lot of people thought the Guardian and the Commander looked funny when they first saw them, but after the initial shock, the design kind of grew on them (it did for me), especially for those who got to shoot them.

Plus, it's not like everyone was particularly open-minded when they first saw PSEs limb designs on the X-Force/Moneymaker line of bows, either.


----------



## RamRock (May 22, 2008)

looks like ill stick with my 82,nd,,,that crappy factory stopper they had was the first thing i took off ANYWAYS


----------



## buckfever1969 (Mar 16, 2007)

Pretty nice bows but my question is with the rotating draw module if the bows will lose peak weight with shorter draw lengths.The reason i wonder this is I had a Golden Eagle and a Alpine with a rotating module and it would not reach peak weight at the shorter draw length.Also what will be the increment of adjustment 1/2",1/4" etc.


----------



## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Matt / PA said:


> Tim,
> You are some sort of a PSE rep are you not?
> I'm curious as to why I continually see you speaking the way you do about a competitors product, and only ours it seems?
> 
> ...


Sorry... No not a rep at all... lol... Just initial impression was thought they were ugly... but they may grow on me... who knows... It's all in good fun Matt... No worries and no "axe grinding"... not trying to pee on your campfire here sir.... my bad...:darkbeer: Carry on...ten-hut!!

And for the record... That was years ago and I am certaintly do not work for another manufacturer.... where'd you hear that one???



You can pm me if you want to know what i do nowadays.... :wink:


----------



## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> I thought that was pretty clear as posted. :wink:


thats stupid..

last year diamond had target colors on there top 3 bows..

hmmm not cool..


----------



## BigEves34 (May 9, 2007)

Wow, I have to say that I really like the looks of the new risers and "lines" of these bows. I'll have to wait until I actually get to shoot one before I can comment any further though. From first glance, looks like a lot of stuff was addressed though.


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## Scottie/PA (Mar 22, 2006)

Matt / PA said:


> Being most likely quieter, and with less recoil and vibration than a General but with more speed ,addressed cable clearance, (obviously addressed limbs), full draw length adjustment built in, new suppressor, solid riser with no Eclips or "Scary" moving parts, the ability to completely relax the bow without a bow press, adustable draw stop peg, new bolt through axle design to eliminate loose E-clips spacers and shims, perfect balance and around a 4# or less mass weight?................I'm thinking she's going to do just fine. :RockOn:



I have to agree here. Lots of great features and 325 fps is a darn good speed.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2006)

The Captain will be my new bow for 09 for sure!!! :wav:


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## smurphysgirl (Mar 6, 2007)

USNarcher said:


> If you guys look at the specs there are 3 bows that get down to the 24" short draw. The Admiral and Captain both go to 24" and the Sentinal goes down to 24.5"


Well, I'm sure "guys" includes me too, right???!! LOL 

I definately intend on test-shooting the new shorter dl bows in the '09 line up...but being a creature of habit, I'm surprised to see such a great bow (Equalizer) disappear. I guess that line in the country song is true...the only thing that stays the same, is everything changes...

Thanks for sharing the new line up and info...


----------



## DrenalinhnterCO (Jul 7, 2008)

They look nice ut those specs are the same as many bows already out there. Darn it. Guess we wont be seeing any true change ths year either from bow companies. Cosmetically they look great though


----------



## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

That is fantastic BowTech!! Way to go!!

Matt,

Will the new bows be available in 80# either standard or custom ordered?

Thanks

Engee


----------



## SC Archer (Oct 11, 2006)

any of the 2009 bowtech/diamond bows have laminated limbs or any new structural makeup?


----------



## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

I'm no Bowtec guy, but it is nice to see that they are constantly changing designs,,, looking for that Holy Grail of bows,,shows they have a busy R&D dept, just hope they addressed the problems they were having. 
Good luck to them!


----------



## dhayse32 (Jul 19, 2006)

Ok I had switched to Mathews and I WAS very happy....but that Iceman has everything I could want in a bow. 325fps, 31.5ATA, >4 lbs., single cam, and if it has the dead in hand feel of the General...I mean come on seriously?? What can top that? 

So far advantage Diamond.....

Ball is in your court Mathews


----------



## GotstaHunt (Jul 2, 2008)

Those look great! All axles are suppose to be held in place with bolts instead of clips, they redesigned their cable slide to a two piece design with a replacable insert and are suppose to be using 3 roller bearings per axle! No more spacers and no more c-clips anywhere! Thats great news :wink:


----------



## 9 point (Apr 23, 2005)

*Wow*

I need them I need them I need them Wow they are some GREAT looking bows. I can't wait !!!!!!!!


----------



## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

Supershark said:


> When is it going to Columbus?


My Dealer (Terminal Velocity Archery Chillicothe OH 740-772-4926) will have the Admiral, Captain, and Iceman in stock the week of 09/28/08 and should have the Sentinel the week of 10/05/2008.


----------



## GotstaHunt (Jul 2, 2008)

Matt / PA said:


> Being most likely quieter, and with less recoil and vibration than a General but with more speed ,addressed cable clearance, (obviously addressed limbs), full draw length adjustment built in, new suppressor, solid riser with no Eclips or "Scary" moving parts, the ability to completely relax the bow without a bow press, adustable draw stop peg, new bolt through axle design to eliminate loose E-clips spacers and shims, perfect balance and around a 4# or less mass weight?................I'm thinking she's going to do just fine. :RockOn:


Agreed. These will be an easy sell for me :wink:


----------



## fucius (Jan 6, 2008)

So, for a sober view from a different continent, here goes:

On the negative side: 
- I don't like the fact that they've moved the string stop down from center position, 
- In 2007 they had a 32" DL bow, in 2008 they only had a 31.5", now their longest DL bow goes to 31". Are they moving toward mainstream/high volume sales only and ignoring the need for LD bows just like the rest? I thought their motto was "Refuse to follow", go figure... 
- The differences betw the Sentinel & Captain are so miniscule, was it really worth developing them as 2 separate bows? 
- All the new models for 2009 are "slow". Only the 82nd update is fast. Does this imply cost saving schemes? 
I ask these questions or post these remarks not because I wanna throw eggs at BT, but highlighting fact. I shoot BT after all, but I don't see anything in the 2009 line-up that comes close to the 101st Airborne I already have... 

On the positive side: 
- They still have good performance, 
- That SWAT seems to be THE BOW! if you're looking for versatility and value for money. And its got a long DL 
- They're sticking with the center pivot design which is good, 

On the Diamond side I see a lot more "evident" BT technology such as center pivots, string stoppers, cam design, roller cable guards... 
So, the gap between Diamond and BT is getting smaller. Which is the same for Reflex/Hoyt... Does this mean we'll see a discontinuation of the lesser brands for 2010? I believe so...


----------



## kc hay seed (Jul 12, 2007)

which one took the place of the connie?


----------



## eastkybowhunter (Jul 14, 2006)

Bowhunterssuperstore.com already has the Diamond 2009 line up for sale on there website.

http://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/diamond-2009-iceman-compound-p-9964.html


----------



## dhayse32 (Jul 19, 2006)

*Pricing*

I wonder what the prices are gonna be for these? I know the "MAP" pricing but we all know they go much lower (and higher) than advertised. Around here DXT are $650, S2 are $605, and Allegiances (when new) are $629. The ICEMAN is my bow of interest. I personally love the lineup. They got back to what most people really want, a great shooting all around bow lineup, they finally jumped off the speed wagon, well at least for this year.


----------



## Honeymonster (Nov 3, 2005)

fucius said:


> - The differences betw the Sentinel & Captain are so miniscule, was it really worth developing them as 2 separate bows?


Agreed. If you go through the posts you will notice how many jump on the 31" ata bow. The 36" bow again is interesting for 3D/field. no need for a 34" bow.


Personally I see no need for a 31" bow, and would have the Captain become the new flagship bow. 
If I'll buy a BT this year it will be the captain (IMHO best design) or the Sentinel. A 35" with the design of the captain would be perfect.


----------



## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

smurphysgirl said:


> Well, I'm sure "guys" includes me too, right???!! LOL
> 
> I definately intend on test-shooting the new shorter dl bows in the '09 line up...but being a creature of habit, I'm surprised to see such a great bow (Equalizer) disappear. I guess that line in the country song is true...the only thing that stays the same, is everything changes...
> 
> Thanks for sharing the new line up and info...



Of course. "guys" being a generic term. Don't feel so bad. They took my Commander away too after only 2 years and it being the best bow ever made in 08.

Matt- Did they keep the cables crossing or are they running parallel like on the Commander and General?


----------



## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

USNarcher said:


> If you guys look at the specs there are 3 bows that get down to the 24" short draw. The Admiral and Captain both go to 24" and the Sentinal goes down to 24.5"


Yeah, I realize that there are plenty of bows that go down to my draw length. There are NOT many bows that can give me the KE of my Equalizer at my DL and 60#'s...

The Guardian and Commander were both turds at short draw lengths and unless these bows are a DRAMATIC change from that, they will be turds as well. This year there are quite a few bows with similar specs and not a lot of variety from what I can tell...


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

I saw somewhere where someone asked about shipping and saying they probably won't go iout until later in the year I think?

Admirals are in stock, and will start to ship late this week, as well as SWAT's and Snipers. The Ice Man, Sentinel and Brigadier will ship third to fourth week of October......

So they should start to show up in people's hands very shortly.


----------



## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Looks like us long DL finger shooters need to look elsewhere.

The Brigadier has the ATA, but only 30" DL, 1/2" too short for me.

Fingers crossed that Ross produce something useable.


----------



## teach4 (May 5, 2005)

If they would've had a center pivot that got 340 I would've been looking real close at them.


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

NeilM said:


> Looks like us long DL finger shooters need to look elsewhere.
> 
> The Brigadier has the ATA, but only 30" DL, 1/2" too short for me.
> 
> Fingers crossed that Ross produce something useable.


37.5" and up to 32" draw with a 7 1/4" brace height and 315fps speed.........will that work?


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

dhayse32 said:


> Ok I had switched to Mathews and I WAS very happy....but that Iceman has everything I could want in a bow. 325fps, 31.5ATA, >4 lbs., single cam, and if it has the dead in hand feel of the General...I mean come on seriously?? What can top that?
> 
> So far advantage Diamond.....
> 
> Ball is in your court Mathews



You could almost FEEL that bow coming this year. 
Single cam fans are gonna freak out when they shoot it.........plain and simple.


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## nutcase (Apr 26, 2006)

The ata specs are wrong in earlier posts

Admiral 31 1/16"
captain 34"
Sentinel 36 3/4"

I have the spec sheets but the file is too large to post,


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## MAPMAN (Apr 28, 2008)

*Bowtech Diamond available already !*

I just got an email from Bowhunters Superstore listing all the new 2009 Bowtech's and Diamond bows.

www.bowhunterssuperstore.com

All the Specifications, pictures and pricing are listed.

I just bought a commander and a nitrous last month.

Looks like a new Bowtech for me in 2009.


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## Whaack (Apr 2, 2006)

Good looking and good specs. I am pretty pumped!


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Are there bows that are yet to be revealed?


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## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

Matt / PA, any idea when the lefty Captains might start shipping ?

FF


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

INGOZI said:


> Are there bows that are yet to be revealed?


Engee,
There are a couple of new Ross bows I have not seen mentioned here.........

and as to your earlier question the reference guides that I have in front of me do not show an 80# option on any bow but at this point in the game I wouldn't rule out one or more of them being available in higher weights special order for you guys killing things other than antelope.:wink:


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

FallFever said:


> Matt / PA, any idea when the lefty Captains might start shipping ?
> 
> FF



Now your asking for crystal ball stuff. :tongue:

Not sure if there is going to be any difference in ship dates for lefties.......I would not be surprised in the least if there are lefties ready to go with the righties in October. We know the oddballs need their new toys too. :wink:


----------



## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

Matt / PA said:


> Now your asking for crystal ball stuff. :tongue:


Thanks for the reply "BT Swamie" !!!:wink:

FF


----------



## MoBOWhunter181 (Jul 2, 2007)

Wonder what Bowtech/Ross has on the way. Surely they will be adding bows to the Ross lineup. Matt/PA, have any info on new Ross bows to come?


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## MikeTN (Nov 2, 2004)

How about pics of the target colors?


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## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

nutcase said:


> The ata specs are wrong in earlier posts
> 
> Admiral 31 1/16"
> captain 34"
> ...



Do any of the short bows have an 8" brace height...that is a key feature to the General and I believe one very important reason they shoot so well.


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Matt / PA said:


> Engee,
> There are a couple of new Ross bows I have not seen mentioned here.........
> 
> and as to your earlier question the reference guides that I have in front of me do not show an 80# option on any bow but at this point in the game I wouldn't rule out one or more of them being available in higher weights special order for you guys killing things other than antelope.:wink:


Thanks Matt!

We need our poundage you know, things bite back here!


----------



## FatboyStew (Nov 8, 2005)

I like them a lot, but I still like the looks and feel of my General. I will definitely be shooting a few of these though. If I find one as quiet and shock free as the General, I may be tempted; although I like the long BH on what I've got.

Does anyone know if the string suppressors will be offered as an aftermarket accessory? I'd like to put one on my General; those look like an improvement to me.


----------



## 12ringok (Jul 18, 2006)

*target colors*



dicksenn said:


> Any news on target colors??


they have fire storm candy red, green, and purple and testarossa


----------



## gfasano (Jun 5, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Engee,
> There are a couple of new Ross bows I have not seen mentioned here.........
> 
> and as to your earlier question the reference guides that I have in front of me do not show an 80# option on any bow but at this point in the game I wouldn't rule out one or more of them being available in higher weights special order for you guys killing things other than antelope.:wink:


So give us some info and pics of the new Ross bows to come!


----------



## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

FatboyStew said:


> I like them a lot, but I still like the looks and feel of my General. I will definitely be shooting a few of these though. If I find one as quiet and shock free as the General, I may be tempted; although I like the long BH on what I've got.
> 
> Does anyone know if the string suppressors will be offered as an aftermarket accessory? I'd like to put one on my General; those look like an improvement to me.


they do look nice...you do have some great options now to changed yours out and its a great improvement


----------



## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

Other than moving the short stop, any changes to the 82nd? Same limbs/cams w/mods?


----------



## ArchersParadox (May 12, 2005)

> Originally Posted by Supershark
> When is it going to Columbus?
> Oct 10 and 11.
> 
> http://www.bowtecharchery.com/trailer/


Copy That!! I know what I'll be doing on Saturday, 10/11/08



> Location:
> Nationwide Arena
> 200 W. Nationwide Blvd.
> Columbus, OH 43215


----------



## no1huntmaster (Dec 30, 2006)

*2009 bowtechs are here*

*wow*


----------



## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

Matt / PA said:


> 37.5" and up to 32" draw with a 7 1/4" brace height and 315fps speed.........will that work?


Which would that be? One of the Ross perhaps?


----------



## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

Well. It sounds like Ross will offer a lot this year also.. I am excited about that line.


----------



## full moon (Feb 10, 2004)

*Iceman*

Anyone know if the Iceman is going too have 80% let off...


----------



## cgchris99 (Apr 10, 2003)

I do believe it is 65-80% adjustable.


----------



## polarbear06 (Oct 30, 2007)

*maybe next year*

I'm not looking for another new bow in 2009 anyway but I have to agree with those that liked the Iceman. That looks sweet and I liked the specs over the others. MATXT has a great point about the snub of the enlisted soldier. Maybe 2010 will have a Sergeant Major...I'm hoping for about 32-33" ATA, 8" BH, 3.5 lbs, about 330 or so on a center pivot. Sounds like a winner and if they do that it'll cost me dearly.


----------



## Flip Flop (Jan 1, 2005)

It finally looks like they completed their design.

A solid looking line up.


----------



## shooter6687 (Mar 28, 2006)

*thank you..*

WOW ,My wife is going to kill me ...she just saw me looking at your thread.I smell a new bow :wink:


----------



## terrym (Feb 25, 2005)

Hey MAtt/Pa

Do these new bows still have interchangeable draw length mods in smooth/fast profiles or are they now draw length specific like the other companies?


----------



## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

They are said to have rotating mods? I am not sure what that means..


----------



## bowtech archer (Dec 5, 2007)

well i get shooters bow through my bow shop i'll have test them all out and figure out which one i like the best i guess


----------



## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

terrym said:


> Hey MAtt/Pa
> 
> Do these new bows still have interchangeable draw length mods in smooth/fast profiles or are they now draw length specific like the other companies?


One speed, all draw length adjustment is built into the cam in 1/2" increments via a rotating module system.

WIll make it a breeze for dealers to set up and order bows for customers and fine tune their draw lengths for them without running out of mods, swapping back and forth etc.


----------



## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

So Matt.. Only one draw mod period.. That just moves around like on the Edge? So you won't have to worry about finding different mods for different draw lengths? I hope that's it.. That would be cool.


----------



## Bow Pilot (Nov 25, 2007)

*2009 bows*

I have shot Bowtech for years and still a fan so I am not knocking them (but).
I purchased the elite Z 28 a few weeks ago hoping Bowtech would not make me regret it with their 2009 line up, they did not. This Elite has an 8 inch brace height 32 ATA with an IBO of 336. The 2009 Bowtechs had nothing close. Good luck to Bowtech but they did not move forward in my opinion this year. Oh and I still own two Bowtechs Guardian and Tribute, this elite in my opinion blows them away in all areas.


----------



## fla_archer (Sep 24, 2008)

Wow, I shoot an 07 ally and love it but those look awsome. Hope to get 1 whenever they come out


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

fla_archer said:


> Wow, I shoot an 07 ally and love it but those look awsome. Hope to get 1 whenever they come out


Yeah me too.. It will take a lot to get my Allegiance out of my hands though..


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

is the iceman a diamond? why would it be the same price as the admiral?


----------



## joeyb (Jan 2, 2003)

sawtoothscream said:


> is the iceman a diamond? why would it be the same price as the admiral?


Why wouldn't they be? The top tier Diamonds are just as good as anything out there including the Bowtech models. 2009 looks to be another great year for the Bowtech and Diamond lines. 

Joey:wink:


----------



## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

So does the Sentinel come in a black color?:tongue:


----------



## DesignedToHunt (Aug 5, 2008)

I see a bunch of different bows with identical specs lol. Funny how the Bowtech guys constantly rub the speed thing in to Mathews and Hoyt shooters face yet every bow from them this year is all in the Mathews and Hoyt ballpark as far as speed goes. Maybe they realized speed isn't all it's cracked up to be :wink:

At any rate, they are nice looking bows but the specs don't do anything for me. 2009 Bowtechs are officially off the list :darkbeer:


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

DesignedToHunt said:


> I see a bunch of different bows with identical specs lol. Funny how the Bowtech guys constantly rub the speed thing in to Mathews and Hoyt shooters face yet every bow from them this year is all in the Mathews and Hoyt ballpark as far as speed goes. Maybe they realized speed isn't all it's cracked up to be :wink:
> 
> At any rate, they are nice looking bows but the specs don't do anything for me. 2009 Bowtechs are officially off the list :darkbeer:



Um, did you look at the 82nd again? 

Improved at a conservative 342-350 fps. :wink:


----------



## jrsarch (Apr 11, 2007)

sawtoothscream said:


> is the iceman a diamond? why would it be the same price as the admiral?


diamond line has put out some real top end bows in the last few years, black ice, marquis and know the iceman! the marquis is a bow that is very hard to beat hands down...


----------



## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

Diamond isn't cut rate bow.. They are a top of the line single cam bow.. That Iceman is the one I want to shoot.. It is faster than the bianary Admiral..


----------



## skyhiarcher (Mar 14, 2006)

yep want to try the iceman with that round cam it should be smoother than the black ice


----------



## iswandy (Aug 18, 2007)

very impressive!


but i'm looking for speed bow :darkbeer:


----------



## DesignedToHunt (Aug 5, 2008)

Poorguy said:


> Um, did you look at the 82nd again?
> 
> Improved at a conservative 342-350 fps. :wink:



I am not being a smart arse when I ask this as I seriously want to know. What did they improve?


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

joeyb said:


> Why wouldn't they be? The top tier Diamonds are just as good as anything out there including the Bowtech models. 2009 looks to be another great year for the Bowtech and Diamond lines.
> 
> Joey:wink:


im just saying. why buy a bowtech off brand when u can get a bowtech top line model. idk. i like the iceman more the single cam is a great feature. but im going to get a 08 marquis hopefully there is a desent drop in price.


----------



## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

DesignedToHunt said:


> I am not being a smart arse when I ask this as I seriously want to know. What did they improve?


I have an 08, the 09 is 1/4" shorter ATA, new cam design, limbs, riser. They listened to any issue with the upper string stop and went with the lower string suppressor, limb dampeners, quieter, less vibration with the same if not more speed. There is no downfall to the 09 as far as I'm concerned. My 08 is a tack driver with 82 ft lbs of KE, 465 grain arrow at 280 fps at 62 lbs and what I consider semi quiet, not as quite as the General but more than any Hoyt I shot in many years. My 3D arrow spits out at 327 fps out of a 28.5" draw and 62 lbs. The 09 promises all that in a quieter bow and I'd be willing to bet that 350 fps IBO is conservative. :wink:


----------



## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Matt / PA said:


> 37.5" and up to 32" draw with a 7 1/4" brace height and 315fps speed.........will that work?



What bow are you refering to. This is a real issue right now BT is losing a great market in the knuckle draggers. :tongue: Seriously though I have a shop shooter that wants a BT and needs a 32" draw.


----------



## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Poorguy said:


> I have an 08, the 09 is 1/4" shorter ATA, new cam design, limbs, riser. They listened to any issue with the upper string stop and went with the lower string suppressor, limb dampeners, quieter, less vibration with the same if not more speed. There is no downfall to the 09 as far as I'm concerned. My 08 is a tack driver with 82 ft lbs of KE, 465 grain arrow at 280 fps at 62 lbs and what I consider semi quiet, not as quite as the General but more than any Hoyt I shot in many years. My 3D arrow spits out at 327 fps out of a 28.5" draw and 62 lbs. The 09 promises all that in a quieter bow and I'd be willing to bet that 350 fps IBO is conservative. :wink:


What's new about the limbs.


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## DesignedToHunt (Aug 5, 2008)

Poorguy said:


> I have an 08, the 09 is 1/4" shorter ATA, new cam design, limbs, riser. They listened to any issue with the upper string stop and went with the lower string suppressor, limb dampeners, quieter, less vibration with the same if not more speed. There is no downfall to the 09 as far as I'm concerned. My 08 is a tack driver with 82 ft lbs of KE, 465 grain arrow at 280 fps at 62 lbs and what I consider semi quiet, not as quite as the General but more than any Hoyt I shot in many years. My 3D arrow spits out at 327 fps out of a 28.5" draw and 62 lbs. The 09 promises all that in a quieter bow and I'd be willing to bet that 350 fps IBO is conservative. :wink:




Honestly when I look at the 82nd all I see is that they moved the string stop lol. I'm not knocking it because I was going to buy one last fall since a longer ATA speed bow is on my list but I didn't like the way the cam broke over. Maybe if they did redesign the cam for '09 it will be a little better. I may just have to try one.


Thanks bro :darkbeer:


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## Jared Les (Jun 22, 2008)

To all you guys with long draw lengths complaining about not being able to shoot the new bows- *STOP IT*! I have been waiting patiently for a short draw bow(25") that would fit my needs and with this new line of Bowtech's I have found my bow. I still cannot get the one I really want(The Iceman) but Bowtech has made an effort to make their bows more friendly to smaller people. I am sure next year they will make more bows to fit you guys but please recocnize that this is just what many of us short draw people have been waiting for. Sorry if I came across to strongly but you need to learn that some people don't have the opportunity to pick and choose like you guys usually do, when there is an opportunity we go for it.

502


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## jkeiffer (Aug 3, 2007)

Archery-Addiction said:


> This is why companies make cams look round, people think they will pull smoother. The smoothness comes from the mod, not the string track. You can take a perfectly round cam and make it feel liek crap. To get the speed that the iceman is getting, it's gotta have a pretty stiff pull!


Thank you, you hit the nail right on the head with this post, although I doubt it will pull to bad as the Drenalin, Illusion and other bows in the 318-325 range are still smooth pullers (compared to the speed bows of today) and by smooth I mean an easier draw force curve.

later
jkeiffer


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## Travis VanDaele (Sep 30, 2002)

*Huge Improvements!!*

Matt, 

This this line looks real good, I am a dealer and can really appreciate what you offer, having that sort of range of adjustment and choices for peak weight will make this new line very popular with your dealers, lets face it if the dealers like it and find the bows easy to fit when their run off their feet these bows will be put first period.

Speed is so overrated , but hey it does sell new bows, those stupid fast bows are hard to sell unless the guy is sold on speed or doesnt try it before he buys it. Sorry , my bad.

To those who feel the need to be negative or bash the new line , you look like fools on here , give the reps for these companies some respect, there are a lot of archers who really appreciate the pros and manufactures who take the time to participate on these boards.


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## Pigsooie13 (Nov 4, 2004)

Archery-Addiction said:


> This is why companies make cams look round, people think they will pull smoother. The smoothness comes from the mod, not the string track. You can take a perfectly round cam and make it feel liek crap. To get the speed that the iceman is getting, it's gotta have a pretty stiff pull!


I'm thinking the same thing...just don't see how you can get a single cam bow to be faster than a binary with basically the same specs(Iceman/Admiral) without making it draw like a bear. I hope so, cause I'll own one if that's the case!


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## MoBOWhunter181 (Jul 2, 2007)

sawtoothscream said:


> im just saying. why buy a bowtech off brand when u can get a bowtech top line model. idk. i like the iceman more the single cam is a great feature. but im going to get a 08 marquis hopefully there is a desent drop in price.


You do realize that Diamond is not an off brand of Bowtech right? Bowtechs are binary cam bows and Diamond are single cam bows. Same quality, just two seperate brands of bows to distinguish them from eachother. One being binary and one being single cam. Thats it, no quality difference.


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## FallFever (Mar 8, 2003)

travis vandaele said:


> to those who feel the need to be negative or bash the new line , you look like fools on here , give the reps for these companies some respect, there are a lot of archers who really appreciate the pros and manufactures who take the time to participate on these boards.


+1


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## MoBOWhunter181 (Jul 2, 2007)

Travis VanDaele said:


> Matt,
> 
> This this line looks real good, I am a dealer and can really appreciate what you offer, having that sort of range of adjustment and choices for peak weight will make this new line very popular with your dealers, lets face it if the dealers like it and find the bows easy to fit when their run off their feet these bows will be put first period.
> 
> ...


You are 100 percent correct. I know so many guys and have seen so many guys that go buy a new bow without even shooting it. You got the Mathews guys, that read all the hype and go out and buy a new DXT without even shooting it. (Not saying they all do that) Then they come complain to me that they can't shoot it. Then you got the guys who go buy an X force without shooting it, and complain that they can only shoot 10 arrows at a time and they get tired.


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Matt / PA said:


> 37.5" and up to 32" draw with a 7 1/4" brace height and 315fps speed.........will that work?


Which bow on that list has those specs?


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## doegirl (Sep 22, 2004)

Great, no Equalizer or any real replacement for it:sad:. Hope that's not the case, but if it is, it might be a Cuda or X-Force for me in '09.


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## E-Force Kid (Jan 31, 2006)

Poorguy said:


> I have an 08, the 09 is 1/4" shorter ATA, new cam design, limbs, riser. They listened to any issue with the upper string stop and went with the lower string suppressor, limb dampeners, quieter, less vibration with the same if not more speed. There is no downfall to the 09 as far as I'm concerned. My 08 is a tack driver with 82 ft lbs of KE, 465 grain arrow at 280 fps at 62 lbs and what I consider semi quiet, not as quite as the General but more than any Hoyt I shot in many years. My 3D arrow spits out at 327 fps out of a 28.5" draw and 62 lbs. The 09 promises all that in a quieter bow and I'd be willing to bet that 350 fps IBO is conservative. :wink:


Did you shoot an 09? I didn't know they were out yet?


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

E-Force Kid said:


> Did you shoot an 09? I didn't know they were out yet?


They are not on the street just yet but, I would take his sig "Bowtech/Diamond Corporate Advisory Staff " meaning he probably has shot it along with several others that have got to play with em :wink:


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

82nd airborne? What did they need to improve?

They changed out the string stop... That was the only flaw I seen that it had!
"Designedtohunt" I read your post... I like to hear everyones opinions, especially on that bow. Its the only bow I have ever picked up that I thought was engineered almost perfect. It was close, real close last year!
But to each is own. I dont have any issues with mine and the draw cycle. But mine has a 30" mod on it. It could change the draw curve. The 101 gave me all the issues, and I believe it was the difference in the mod.


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## Breathn (Jun 12, 2005)

*ttt*

Wonder why they dropped the 101st,it was pretty popular i thought.??


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## R0CKETMAN (Sep 10, 2008)

MATT

When will the BOWTECH web site be updated with the new line? The FACTS would be helpful in accompanying the "spy" release.

Thanks for your input. I have read every post both you and others have provided on this thread. Thanks for taking the time, be it your job or not.

RM


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## Bowup882 (Feb 11, 2007)

*'09's and Speed!*

I've seen a bunch of folks fussin' about speed on the new '09 bows. I was told Monday when I placed my orders, that all the IBO's on the new bows were very conservative, and that many of the birth certificates on the bows we recieve will be above those figures released in print. I specifically asked 
if the Admiral would shoot 330fps. The reply was, " It'll do it". So, till u pull the string u can't say a thing. We have to see for ourselves... I believe 'em.


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## we3jeepers (Mar 13, 2008)

no draw lengths over 31" ????

why not???


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

Bowup882 said:


> I've seen a bunch of folks fussin' about speed on the new '09 bows. I was told Monday when I placed my orders, that all the IBO's on the new bows were very conservative, and that many of the birth certificates on the bows we recieve will be above those figures released in print. I specifically asked
> if the Admiral would shoot 330fps. The reply was, " It'll do it". So, till u pull the string u can't say a thing. We have to see for ourselves... I believe 'em.



I am a Bowtech owner, but I say bull.. Bow manufacturers make way to big of a deal about speed, not to advertise the highest possible speed the bow will do. If Bowtech in fact is doing this I would be highly suprised. I hope you are correct, but again, I'll believe it, when I see it.. Just like everything else in life..


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## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

hunter_tlh said:


> I am a Bowtech owner, but I say bull.. Bow manufacturers make way to big of a deal about speed, not to advertise the highest possible speed the bow will do. If Bowtech in fact is doing this I would be highly suprised. I hope you are correct, but again, I'll believe it, when I see it.. Just like everything else in life..


Where have you seen these bows advertised by BowTech...I have been looking and cant find anything. Thanks


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

JAMBF750 said:


> Where have you seen these bows advertised by BowTech...I have been looking and cant find anything. Thanks


I guess I have not.. I am purely going off of specs posted here.. But this trick works both ways.. There are at least numbers posted on this thread... If they are not correct, Bowtech should be begging for this thread to be pulled or offer a spec sheet with IBO speeds for each bow. Bowtech is aware that this thread exists on Archerytalk.. Just like last year, I am sure it was strategically posted just before official release of these models..


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

They are not up on BowTechs website yet, are they...:zip:


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## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

hunter_tlh said:


> I guess I have not.. I am purely going off of specs posted here.. But this trick works both ways.. There are at least numbers posted on this thread... If they are not correct, Bowtech should be begging for this thread to be pulled or offer a spec sheet with IBO speeds for each bow. Bowtech is aware that this thread exists on Archerytalk.. Just like last year, I am sure it was strategically posted just before official release of these models..


You have a legit point; I’m a little worried that they are not offering an 8" brace height on the shorter bows and just praying that the posted specs are incorrect. For example, it lists the Brigadier with an 8" brace height and it’s a 40” bow, do you think this is correct? Why would the Admiral (which I believe is closest to The General) only have a 7” brace height?


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## mesquitecountry (Oct 8, 2007)

Anyone shot any of the bows yet??? Which bow is the smoothest in comparison to the tribute. 

I have an 07 tribute and an 08 101. I cant pull the 101 back without messing up my shoulder (shoulder problems and surgeries). Will the admiral be the bow that I want? I'm getting rid of my 101 to get something smooth again.


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## jkeiffer (Aug 3, 2007)

hunter_tlh said:


> I guess I have not.. I am purely going off of specs posted here.. But this trick works both ways.. There are at least numbers posted on this thread... If they are not correct, Bowtech should be begging for this thread to be pulled or offer a spec sheet with IBO speeds for each bow. Bowtech is aware that this thread exists on Archerytalk.. Just like last year, I am sure it was strategically posted just before official release of these models..


I honestly think that the gap in the IBO speeds is a bit large (from 325 to 345ish)and I think are not entirely truthfull since the Draw length ranges do not change as they should when using the same cams and brace height with differing ATA lengths. on the Admiral to the Sential a difference of about 5 inches ATA should net a bump up in draw length range on the bottom and top by about 1-1.25 inches instead of the posted .5 inches and if the brigader has the same cams then same for it. 

I expect to see the specs change on BT's website when released or an ATA show release.


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## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

mesquitecountry said:


> Anyone shot any of the bows yet??? Which bow is the smoothest in comparison to the tribute.
> 
> I have an 07 tribute and an 08 101. I cant pull the 101 back without messing up my shoulder (shoulder problems and surgeries). Will the admiral be the bow that I want? I'm getting rid of my 101 to get something smooth again.



I am only guessing, but believe the ICEMAN will be the smoothest with the single cam design.


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## broadfieldpoint (Oct 12, 2006)

Frank/PA said:


> Maybe it is just me but I really do not see other bow manufacturers making as many innovations as BOWTECH does year after year. They contniue to set the tone in my opinion. Nice line up.





Innovations doesnt always mean "better"....I think they are in this mentality of always "having" to out do themselves....sorry....you cant out do the Tribute...IMO


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## mesquitecountry (Oct 8, 2007)

mesquitecountry said:


> Anyone shot any of the bows yet??? Which bow is the smoothest in comparison to the tribute.
> 
> I have an 07 tribute and an 08 101. I cant pull the 101 back without messing up my shoulder (shoulder problems and surgeries). Will the admiral be the bow that I want? I'm getting rid of my 101 to get something smooth again.


I should have clarified. Which binary system will be the smoothest?


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

broadfieldpoint said:


> Innovations doesnt always mean "better"....I think they are in this mentality of always "having" to out do themselves....sorry....you cant out do the Tribute...IMO


I figured I would have heard the Ally before the Tribby? I guess I must have missed something by not ever owning one? Although I think my shop has one new in the box?


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

JAMBF750 said:


> You have a legit point; I’m a little worried that they are not offering an 8" brace height on the shorter bows and just praying that the posted specs are incorrect. For example, it lists the Brigadier with an 8" brace height and it’s a 40” bow, do you think this is correct? Why would the Admiral (which I believe is closest to The General) only have a 7” brace height?


Why wouldn't a 40" bow with an 8" brace height seem correct to you?
You have heard of the Constitution correct?:wink:

The Admiral drops brace height to a still shootable 7" to pick up the 15fps of speed people wanted out of the General. You have to make some trade offs in design........

The speeds of these bows will NOT be set off of one or 2 prototypes and then an approximate speed** given based upon one supertuned prototype to make it sound all warm and fuzzy.
The speeds will be checked on pilot runs of bows, averaged and then that average will be used to establish the median speed rating. NOT a guess based upon a couple preproduction bows.

We're not going to advertise a speed rating this year that puts us in danger of production bows coming in at the bottom or just under the speed rating. That slows things down having bows sent back to be tweaked or rebuilt looking for 1 or 2fps to fall into that mark.
You can believe it or not if you want........I've seen the process this year.

By putting the actual average speed toward the top of the advertised speed rating it ensures no surprises other than the occasional guy who gets one at the very top.  (Rather than the very bottom )


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

So Matt.. You aren't going to fall into an "envious" trap.. You are going to average speeds from several bows and use those numbers.. So Crackers will be able to go ape getting speed out of them? Is that what your saying?


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

hunter_tlh said:


> So Matt.. You aren't going to fall into an "envious" trap.. You are going to average speeds from several bows and use those numbers.. So Crackers will be able to go ape getting speed out of them? Is that what your saying?



Not "several" bows........DOZENS of bows.

There will be no messing around with speed on these. We'll find an average of a pretty good sized production sample and then set that mark so that the average of that sample is toward the high end of the speed rating.

The larger sample and setting the speed this way ensures that our production bows from that point on will easily make the range with theoretically many of them near the top since we are trying to eliminate bows coming in near the bottom.
Bows at the bottom mean some bows didn't make it..........bows that don't make it slow down production.:wink:

By not having bows that push the bottom number we only have happy people because a percentage will push the very top.

And yes, EVERY bow is shot to make sure.

IF any other bow company is as thorough and honest with speeds of their bows as we are , then I tip my hat to them.:darkbeer:


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Matt you mentioned a 32" draw????????? What you talkin about?:tongue:


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

hey Matt, is the "in-velvet" still being offered for 09' ???

any "PICS" of the target colors ???

thanks


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

Matt / PA said:


> Not "several" bows........DOZENS of bows.
> 
> There will be no messing around with speed on these. We'll find an average of a pretty good sized production sample and then set that mark so that the average of that sample is toward the high end of the speed rating.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.. This is definately preventative medicine, so to speek. Smart move to "try" to prevent unhappy with the speed of their Admiral threads. LOL.


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## MARTIN BOBCAT (Mar 18, 2007)

nice, my fav. is the S.W.A.T.


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## x-ring-1 (Oct 31, 2002)

The captain looks interesting!


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## x-ring-1 (Oct 31, 2002)

*Maybe...*

Has it occured to any one that maybe not every thing has been reveled here on AT? Maybe there is something coming at the ATA show! Hummmmmmm!


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## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

*2009 Bowtechs*

They should all be quiet and shock-free. That being said, there is no change from last year, except a slightly different cam. I for one would very much like to shoot a bow WITHOUT a roller guard because of the extra stress it puts on the limbs.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

> The Admiral drops brace height to a still shootable 7" to pick up the 15fps of speed people wanted out of the General. You have to make some trade offs in design........


I was just reading back over my posts and made a mistake in the brace height number for the Admiral.
*The brace height for the Admiral is actually 7 1/2" *(Forgot to put the 1/2 sorry guys )


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## scottieoutwest (Aug 6, 2008)

Here's a thought for all you speed freaks complaining about the IBO on these new bows. Sure, these may not have that "speed" rating but one great thing about Bowtech Bows is the fact that you don't have to add Limbsaver or any other products to reduce noise or shock. Everything you add to your bow limbs or strings slows it down considerably from IBO. That being said maybe the IBO isn't as fast as some would like the real world speeds will be just fine


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## holger_danske (Jan 8, 2008)

they look nice... but...



"stud"???? :chortle:


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

CherryJu1ce said:


> They should all be quiet and shock-free. That being said, there is no change from last year, except a slightly different cam. I for one would very much like to shoot a bow WITHOUT a roller guard because of the extra stress it puts on the limbs.


 Yep, same bows as last year,, different riser, limbs, cams, weight, suppressor, names, strings.. Same bows..:wink:


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Another thing to consider with speed is what I alluded to with respect to HONESTY in ratings and actual measurements of the bows being tested.

We are going to do our absolute best to make sure that the draw lengths,weights and speeds are correct as advertised.
When you start comparing numbers bewteen bows you owe it to yourself to actually measure these things to see if you are getting what the manufacturer is claiming.
That goes for ours too..........check em' out, we do before each one heads out the door.

Here's an example. Through the course of testing we check bows from all walks of life to see how ours compare performance wise.

We took a carefully measured 28" AMO / 70# production line Sentinel with it's 7" brace height and shot an exactly 350gr arrow at *305fps.* 
This bow is rated 317-325fps. That's a straight off the line bow shooting basically the very top end of what we are advertising at that draw length. 

Next we took a 2008 production model "Speed" bow straight out of the box from one of the other brands that has a little higher brace height and is rated on a similar sliding scale to the mid 340's.  After also carefully setting it to 28" AMO and dropping the actual production draw weight back down to 70# to match the Sentinel *it shot the same exact 350gr arrow 308fps.*
That's 3fps faster for a bow that is advertised at over 20fps faster on each of their top end speeds.

I'm not going to mention any names, it's irrelevant but it's a real honest straight out of the box test just for our own giggles to see how these bows stack up performance wise. It pays to know what the competition is really doing.:wink:

It truly is our goal to give you what we say we're going to give you and the speed is terrific on the 2009 models. Demand the same from any manufacturer you choose without taking their word for it.


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## pdq 5oh (Sep 7, 2002)

DrenalinhnterCO said:


> They look nice ut those specs are the same as many bows already out there. Darn it. Guess we wont be seeing any true change ths year either from bow companies. Cosmetically they look great though


The changes are much more than skin deep. Many "mechanical" improvements have been made.


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Matt / PA said:


> Why wouldn't a 40" bow with an 8" brace height seem correct to you?
> You have heard of the Constitution correct?:wink:
> 
> The Admiral drops brace height to a still shootable 7" to pick up the 15fps of speed people wanted out of the General. You have to make some trade offs in design........
> ...


So basically what you are saying is you lowered the IBO rating because you didn't want to waste time tuning them to perfection at the factory, and risking bows coming back because they left the factory slow.


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## scottieoutwest (Aug 6, 2008)

vhunter said:


> So basically what you are saying is you lowered the IBO rating because you didn't want to waste time tuning them to perfection at the factory, and risking bows coming back because they left the factory slow.


Quite possibly one of the dumbest statements I've heard in some time!


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

scottieoutwest said:


> Quite possibly one of the dumbest statements I've heard in some time!


Maybe to you, but it sounds like to my instead of taking the time send the bows out at or near top performance, they decided to just lower there standards. I think that is dumb. Unless your one of the great super-tuners out there. I'm sure they will more than happy to get top performance out of these bows.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

vhunter said:


> So basically what you are saying is you lowered the IBO rating because you didn't want to waste time tuning them to perfection at the factory, and risking bows coming back because they left the factory slow.


Not at all.......bows are almost like individuals, they are high tolerance machines but they still will not all exhibit EXACTLY the same performance, it's impossible. You can get them all VERY CLOSE but you won't get them all the SAME.
This is the reason for a speed range rather than a single speed number.

By taking that average speed and keeping it high on the speed rating scale it allows room for some of the bows being a little below and some being above without having the occasional slower one risking going under the bottom number.
The speed rating is what the bows will do and if we advertise what they really WILL do more closely to the top number how is that anything but a good thing? Everyone gets what they are told they will get and maybe more than not will get a nice little surprise.
Where's the problem? LOL
I think a buyer would be much happier with life if we tell him the bow will do 320-328 and his comes in at 327 rather than 320 don't ya think? 

Does anyone really think that all those "Brand X" bows that are advertised at one speed are hitting that ONE speed? Or hitting that one speed with the specs they say they are? 
That's the reason for *asterisks*:wink:. 
Do you honestly think bows from any manufacturer are "Supertuned" at production? LOL They are given the best possible chance to shoot the advertised speeds based upon the quality and tolerances of the parts being put together. They are tuned by default.
Everything is carefully mesured and calibrated and if a bow comes out where it supposed to, it's up to the end user to "tune to perfection" if they can do any better than we can on the production line. :darkbeer:


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## pdq 5oh (Sep 7, 2002)

vhunter said:


> So basically what you are saying is you lowered the IBO rating because you didn't want to waste time tuning them to perfection at the factory, and risking bows coming back because they left the factory slow.


NO, just making sure they shoot as advertised. As Matt said, the IBO ratings are actually averaged speeds, arrived at by shooting production bows. Not advertising pipe dreams. How many bows have you shot that drew 1/2" or more longer than advertised? Or drew 4-8 lbs heavy? If you bothered to check them I'd bet quite a few. And how many manufacturers "tune bows to perfection" at the factory?


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## vhunter (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks Matt for the explanation. It just seems like at first a lot of people where disappointed with the IBO speeds of these new bows. Now there has been a lot of hinting around that these speeds are very Conservative, and that the bows can get more speed than advertised.


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## PABowhntr (Oct 2, 2002)

> You could almost FEEL that bow coming this year.
> Single cam fans are gonna freak out when they shoot it.........plain and simple.


I agree. I am already freakin' out about it and I have not even shot it yet.



...but the Admiral is going to arrive first. It should be an interesting comparison between the Admiral and the Ice Man. They seem so similar besides the cam difference.


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## semostixx (Oct 25, 2007)

*IBO specs*

Everyone complains about how bows never meet IBO specs. I have seen a number of threads where people want the company to be more realistic about their IBO rating. I personally don't care what the brochure says the bow will do. To me the real numbers are what matters. If Bowtech is giving real world numbers for their IBO rating, I for one give them a big :set1_applaud:


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

vhunter said:


> Thanks Matt for the explanation. It just seems like at first a lot of people where disappointed with the IBO speeds of these new bows. Now there has been a lot of hinting around that these speeds are very Conservative, and that the bows can get more speed than advertised.



You're very welcome.
Some might very well do top end speeds or heck even better..........IMO it's better to understate a bit and maybe overdeliver, rather than the other way around agree? :wink:

That way every shooter should be pleased with the end result.


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## ddworkm (Apr 4, 2006)

Matt just wanted to say thanks for all the info and for answering everyone complaints professionally.......The people at Bowtech is one reason I continue to shoot your bows. Great Customer Service and great people. Thanks again and now my complaint is could you guys just make one good bow a year so I don't have to make such a tough decision :wink:I will be patiently waiting to shoot them all and decide....:darkbeer:


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

semostixx said:


> everyone complains about how bows never meet ibo specs. I have seen a number of threads where people want the company to be more realistic about their ibo rating. I personally don't care what the brochure says the bow will do. To me the real numbers are what matters. If bowtech is giving real world numbers for their ibo rating, i for one give them a big :set1_applaud:


+1


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## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

Matt / PA said:


> I was just reading back over my posts and made a mistake in the brace height number for the Admiral.
> *The brace height for the Admiral is actually 7 1/2" *(Forgot to put the 1/2 sorry guys )


You helped me an 1/2" and I'll take it, thanks......

ADMIRAL or ICEMAN, decisions, decisions...

I am guessing a high ranking BT officer had some input on the name ICEMAN? 

If I get the ICEMAN, I think I'm going to change the name to GOOSE....:wink:


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

Matt / PA said:


> 37.5" and up to 32" draw with a 7 1/4" brace height and 315fps speed.........will that work?


It would if such a bow existed... why are you being coy about the long draw question? It has been asked many times with no real answer other than this quote. Is Bowtech going to have a bow that goes to 32"?


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

I should have my new 70lb Admiral Friday or Monday at the latest, I'll let you know:wink:


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

oldglorynewbie said:


> It would if such a bow existed... why are you being coy about the long draw question? It has been asked many times with no real answer other than this quote. Is Bowtech going to have a bow that goes to 32"?


Yes, in the ROSS line. 
More about that at a later date.

:zip:

For now in the Bowtech line I know it doesn't make the monkeys among us feel all warm and fuzzy but the Sentinel and 82nd do get out to 30 1/2" , the SWAT to 31" and the Sniper to 32".

(This from a guy who just squeaks in at 30" himself :wink


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## oldglorynewbie (Oct 17, 2006)

Matt / PA said:


> Yes, in the ROSS line.
> More about that at a later date.
> 
> :zip:
> ...


Thank you. :thumb:


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

I have to commend you on taking the time to patiently answer everybodies answers Matt, you are truly a huge asset to BowTech!

Well done and thank you!


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Not at all.......bows are almost like individuals, they are high tolerance machines but they still will not all exhibit EXACTLY the same performance, it's impossible. You can get them all VERY CLOSE but you won't get them all the SAME.
> This is the reason for a speed range rather than a single speed number.
> 
> By taking that average speed and keeping it high on the speed rating scale it allows room for some of the bows being a little below and some being above without having the occasional slower one risking going under the bottom number.
> ...


No disrespect but martins are hitting speeds advertised. Firecat and slayers are on the money! I hope you dont only get the speeds advertised for the bowtechs but also for diamonds! my black ice was 298 with a 350 grain arrow on the birthcertificate. it didnt shoot that out of 3 different chronos when i bought it! anyhow the advertised speed is upto 318. i had to go with 5.5. grains to get 320.. dont get me wrong smooth but definately not a speed bow was wanting to get 290 out of a 28" 365 grn arrow and couldnt do it! and im not shooting 5.5. grains and basically dry firing my bow to get that. anyhow bow is useless right now. the authorized bowtech dealer says you guys wont call them back...nice bows


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Did you return that Black Ice to the dealer you bought it from or did you buy it somewhere else?


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

check this out, my wife bought it @ gander since she was visiting family on the other side of florida. 3 months later the limbs delaminate, I take it to a shop way out of my way to get it fixed and the bow was twanging bad and poundage went down, not to mention they messed up my string and lost my g5 peep! noticed that the bottom cam severly leaning to the left no matter what we did to it. none of the shops wich arent close to me want to help because i didnt buy the frigging thing @ there shop. i wanted a black ice to shoot and buy as soon as i was ready none of the dealers around me had one. now, one of the dealers told me he should charge people for doing that and gave me a whole bunch of static so much that i was dissapointed alreay @ the fact that i spent $700.00 on a bow and it messed up on me just when getting really comfortable and then not being able to shoot it @ all so i walked out! im grown i dont need a lecture. this aint working out and im getting really ticked off! i contacted customer service two times and all they do is tell me they cant without it going through a dealer i told them the bow is registered so i guess that means absolutely squat! I feel like i litteraly just gave Diamond/bowtech $700.00 for shooting one of their bows for 3 months. i told 2 of there there reps about the situation with the dealer and he suggested i kissed a lill azzzz.. i told him im not like that! he said that would probably help the situation! .. he laughed..this has been one of the worst experiences i have had! Im supporting a family of 5 wife works also and i cant even shoot the bow that i was dying to have that i sold 2 other perfectly good bows to get! blew my whole xmas bonus on it $200.00 plus money i saved up ,ive been looking @ bows and pondering but have no money! and i cant sell this bow like this! im supposed to be in the woods this weekend!I was supposed to put food on the table!!!!!!!! thanks, preciate it!


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## DrenalinhnterCO (Jul 7, 2008)

georgiabuckdan said:


> check this out, my wife bought it @ gander since she was visiting family on the other side of florida. 3 months later the limbs delaminate, I take it to a shop way out of my way to get it fixed and the bow was twanging bad and poundage went down, not to mention they messed up my string and lost my g5 peep! noticed that the bottom cam severly leaning to the left no matter what we did to it. none of the shops wich arent close to me want to help because i didnt buy the frigging thing @ there shop. i wanted a black ice to shoot and buy as soon as i was ready none of the dealers around me had one. now, one of the dealers told me he should charge people for doing that and gave me a whole bunch of static so much that i was dissapointed alreay @ the fact that i spent $700.00 on a bow and it messed up on me just when getting really comfortable and then not being able to shoot it @ all so i walked out! im grown i dont need a lecture. this aint working out and im getting really ticked off! i contacted customer service two times and all they do is tell me they cant without it going through a dealer i told them the bow is registered so i guess that means absolutely squat! I feel like i litteraly just gave Diamond/bowtech $700.00 for shooting one of their bows for 3 months. i told 2 of there there reps about the situation with the dealer and he suggested i kissed a lill azzzz.. i told him im not like that! he said that would probably help the situation! .. he laughed..this has been one of the worst experiences i have had! Im supporting a family of 5 wife works also and i cant even shoot the bow that i was dying to have that i sold 2 other perfectly good bows to get! blew my whole xmas bonus on it $200.00 plus money i saved up ,ive been looking @ bows and pondering but have no money! and i cant sell this bow like this! im supposed to be in the woods this weekend!I was supposed to put food on the table!!!!!!!! thanks, preciate it!


Your not the first I have heard this exact thing from. I am very sorry about your ordeal. People really dont want to admitt it but since bowtech joined savage Their customers havent fully been taken care of. Especially the ones who dont have a dealer nearby. Sorry to say but you like many others who thought bowtech was a grat stand up company got stabbed in the back y them. Hope things work out for you soon buddy.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

The dealer's job is to make sure his customers are happy. I'd say the dealer probably droped the ball. My local dealer dosen't have problems getting anything from BowTech quickly and the dealer wants his customers for life so he's willing to go the distance for them.


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

thanks Drenalin! You have no idea about how i feel! I am so up front about everything and i do others as i would like to be treated! Im that kinda person that would give anyone the shirt im wearing to help them out! I think that its pretty sad i got my whole family into shooting these things since last year theres been 5 diamonds and bowtechs in my family because of me! I really hope they help me! i was really a fanboy and now its just urking me!


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## mesquitecountry (Oct 8, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Yes, in the ROSS line.
> More about that at a later date.
> 
> :zip:
> ...



Matt,

Which bow would be most comparable to draw smoothness of the Tribute?

The admiral, captain, swat or iceman? 

I've had shoulder problems and the 101 is just to agressive for me. Look forward to hearing your input.

Thanks in advance.


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## primal-bow (Jun 5, 2008)

hey can u e-mail those pics&specs to me [email protected]


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

mesquitecountry said:


> Matt,
> 
> Which bow would be most comparable to draw smoothness of the Tribute?
> 
> ...


I can tell you that the SWAT is going to possibly be the real sleeper of the bunch. It draws VERY smooth front to back. The one I shot had no hump at all with great speed and balance. To me it held very much like an Allegiance or Tribute but drew smoother.
You can just look at it and see that it has geometry similar to those 2 bows but with larger almost round cams.

I was very impressed with that bow when I shot it.


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## DrenalinhnterCO (Jul 7, 2008)

How will their customer service be this year? Will they take care of those with no dealer close by?


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## mesquitecountry (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks matt.


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

*please dont delete*

customer service is an issue with these bows, once you buy them and something fails its up to "your dealer" to get an ra # if the dealer doesnt feel like working on the bow (if you didnt buy @ that shop) they dont have to, customer service reps told me to just kiss azzz to the dealer. wich i will not due. Dealer said that bowtech/diamond hasnt returned call to them, the dealer was upset i didnt buy the bow from there and decided to give me a lecture so i walked out. went to another shop which is now closed and got limbs swaped there after the initial delaminaton, when i got the bow back my g5 peep was gone and string freyed...i called customer service again to get an ra# and they would not issue.... nice bows  be realistic about the customer service!!


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## xibowhunter (Mar 18, 2003)

thats some nice looking hardware


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## PABowhntr (Oct 2, 2002)

I want to comment on something that I have seen fairly often here and over on Huntingnet with the new Bowtech/Diamond/Ross threads. 

I think alot of folks have to understand that you cannot really please everyone, every year with the new bow designs. So far I have seen comments such as..... 

" I wish they had a shorter draw length bow..." 
" I wish they had a longer draw length bow...." 
"I wish they didn't make any shorter than 34 inches from axle to axle..." 
"I wish they made some really short bows...." 
"I hope they improved the limb design...." 
"I wish the "Blank bow" was about 10 fps faster with the same overall specs...." 

All of the comments are then followed up with something like "...until they do I won't be spending money on them." 

FWIW, I can see where you folks are coming from. I really can. I have a longer than average draw length and for years I have always asked for the flagship bows to be offered in draw lengths longer than 30 inches. So, when folks come out with some of the comments mentioned above I can sympathize with you. What I want to emphasize though is that the current models do have alot of new and innovative features. They aren't simply a rehash of previous years' designs. Bowtech constantly evaluates their models based on input from their dealers and from folks just like you. Case in point, I know one issue folks had with last year's General was the mass weight. Though I have not actually seen it in writing yet I would be willing to bet a fair amount that the General's "offspring" are noticeably lighter without sacrificing any of the excellent shooting characteristics that made the General so attractive. 

Another issue that came up late in the year was the issue with the General's limbs. Once you folks hear what they are doing with the limbs on this year's bows I will be willing to bet that you will rethink your stance on their limb design. I really do. I am sure Matt will share more as time allows. 

I guess my point in typing all of this is simply to say that a company cannot please everyone. But I do sincerely believe that Bowtech tries to please as many people as they can while still not drifting away from their goal to provide cutting edge bow designs and solid customer service to back it up. 

Keep that in mind when you post your thoughts. They are being heard and even if there isn't a bow in their current lineup that completely suits your needs then maybe there will be next year.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Any pics of the Admiral's first kill yet???????????????????????


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## Jersey Ray (Apr 16, 2007)

*Hmmm...*

Very Interesting Riser Designs... I myself was kinda hoping for a Special/Limited Edition run of the Old School Tribute...:wink: :tongue:  Can`t wait to hear all the feedback on them...:darkbeer: J.R.


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## 'Ike' (Jan 10, 2003)

*SWAT*, I like it....:tongue:


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## Roadrunner (Feb 25, 2004)

How soon will we know what bowtech has done to resolve there long standing limb failure problem and it is definately a problem. I owned 3 bowtechs this year and got rid of them because I didn't want to be in the middle of deer season and have a limb break, I just didn't trust them. I like the looks of these new bows and if they have really done something to solve the limb failure issues then I will most likely have one. I really like the looks of the admiral and if its even smoother and quieter than the general then that is indeed impressive.


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## xtremetj (Feb 15, 2004)

Can anyone give us a time frame as to when the limb details will be available? Why hold back that info if they are letting pics and specs? Please just let us know all the details:tongue::tongue:

Greg.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

I have NO inside info, just speaking some common sense here...

Does anyone REALLY think that BT would NOT rethink the limb design this year?


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## no1huntmaster (Dec 30, 2006)

Brigadier...I will take one


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## hardwoodhitman (Aug 30, 2007)

xtremetj said:


> Can anyone give us a time frame as to when the limb details will be available? Why hold back that info if they are letting pics and specs? Please just let us know all the details:tongue::tongue:
> 
> Greg.


actually they are really upset this info got out. i guess a dealer figured out how to get the pics on the web. they were wanting to make a "big splash" this year between commercials, print etc.


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## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

Roadrunner said:


> How soon will we know what bowtech has done to resolve there long standing limb failure problem and it is definately a problem. I owned 3 bowtechs this year and got rid of them because I didn't want to be in the middle of deer season and have a limb break, I just didn't trust them. I like the looks of these new bows and if they have really done something to solve the limb failure issues then I will most likely have one. I really like the looks of the admiral and if its even smoother and quieter than the general then that is indeed impressive.


LIMBS. everyone wants to know about limbs. Of course.

The limb process IS different for 09' both in materials and process. *Bowtech is going to have a comprehensive outline of the limb make-up on their website shortly.* The limb tips will be beefier on the CP bows and will also incorporate a thick metal "U" shaped channel that will cover the top and sides of the tips to further increase durability and make them bullet proof. The entire until will then be drilled through for precision and the new bolt through axle system will increase the cam/axle tolerances further stabilizing the limb ends and quiet them down by the use of higher tolerances and less loose parts.


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

wow this thread got popular quick


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## bonez (Aug 17, 2005)

cant wait to get my hands on that sentential!


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## PB26 (Dec 31, 2006)

Anyone know if the draw stop peg on the new version of the Constitution hits the cable or the limb?


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## ILL BUCK (Oct 25, 2002)

Matt, does the Iceman have an adjustable draw length cam or is it a draw length specific cam??


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## Greg / MO (Nov 19, 2003)

All the cams have rotating modules, Ill.


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## terrym (Feb 25, 2005)

I want an Iceman.


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## BayouBob (Apr 9, 2007)

Are there any changes to the '09 82nd besides the string stopper? Different limb construction or anything else?


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## ILL BUCK (Oct 25, 2002)

Thanks Greg. Going to be hard to stay away from that bow!!!


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## PABowhntr (Oct 2, 2002)

Poorguy said:


> LIMBS. everyone wants to know about limbs. Of course.
> 
> The limb process IS different for 09' both in materials and process. *Bowtech is going to have a comprehensive outline of the limb make-up on their website shortly.* The limb tips will be beefier on the CP bows and will also incorporate a thick metal "U" shaped channel that will cover the top and sides of the tips to further increase durability and make them bullet proof. The entire until will then be drilled through for precision and the new bolt through axle system will increase the cam/axle tolerances further stabilizing the limb ends and quiet them down by the use of higher tolerances and less loose parts.



Hey Rob...that sounds familiar.



...and "Poorguy". I get it but whats with the lack of "PABowyer". You stop makin' bows?


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## pdq 5oh (Sep 7, 2002)

BayouBob said:


> Are there any changes to the '09 82nd besides the string stopper? Different limb construction or anything else?


Pretty much a carry-over from 08. Not much to improve on, IMO.


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## joeyb (Jan 2, 2003)

sawtoothscream said:


> im just saying. why buy a bowtech off brand when u can get a bowtech top line model. idk. i like the iceman more the single cam is a great feature. but im going to get a 08 marquis hopefully there is a desent drop in price.


That is where you and I differ. I don't view Diamond or Ross for that matter as a Bowtech off brand. While most companys have trouble innovating one line, Bowtech can do three!:wink:

Joey


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## joeyb (Jan 2, 2003)

pdq 5oh said:


> The changes are much more than skin deep. Many "mechanical" improvements have been made.[/QUOTE
> 
> You said a mouthful! The General has 24 parts the Admirial has 12.
> 
> Joey


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## Bfreeland (Nov 2, 2007)

*commander*

just curious which 2009 is most similar to a commander i have a 101st which they wont continue in 09 but im curious what has the ATA and brace height closest to my 07 commander?


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## Savannahsdad (Oct 13, 2003)

*a true leader in the industry*



joeyb said:


> That is where you and I differ. I don't view Diamond or Ross for that matter as a Bowtech off brand. While most companys have trouble innovating one line, Bowtech can do three!:wink:
> 
> Joey


I agree! bowtech's willingness to inovate new technology and improve upon existing as well as just good old "thinking outside the box" has made them the new leader in the bow market. I am very excited about the '09 lineup.:banana:


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

BayouBob said:


> Are there any changes to the '09 82nd besides the string stopper? Different limb construction or anything else?



The roller guard has also been reworked.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Bfreeland said:


> just curious which 2009 is most similar to a commander i have a 101st which they wont continue in 09 but im curious what has the ATA and brace height closest to my 07 commander?


That would be the Sentinel..........
7" brace height, 
40-50-60-70# wts, 
24 1/2 to 30 1/2" draw lengths, 
36 3/4" ATA
317-325fps speed

New Center Pivot design.


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## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*views.....*

Over 22,000 views of this thread. Bowtech MUST be doing something right!


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## bacon27 (Jul 11, 2008)

Hmm no more 101st AB? My buddy was looking @ one but I guess you can't buy a brand new one no more then. 

I'll be bow shopping this coming spring, nice to see the new ones.


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## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

If they are going to offer a package deal on a few bows, anyone know what sight they are using?


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## racknspur (Jan 24, 2007)

btguymt said:


> Brace Height	Draw Weights	Draw Length	A2A	IBO	MSR
> Admiral	7" 40,50,60,70	24-30 31 1/16"	320	$829
> Captain	7" 50,60,70 24-30 34"	323	$849
> Sentinel	7" 40,50,60,70	24.5-30.5 36.75	325	$849
> ...


Nice to see the prices are still reasonable. You now, with the economy doing so well and so few people in the unemployment line. Fastly becoming the sport of Kings(1000.00 bows and big money land leases!!!!) Un-freakin' believable!


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## J.C. (Aug 20, 2004)

JAMBF750 said:


> If they are going to offer a package deal on a few bows, anyone know what sight they are using?


I'm pretty sure they use Tru-glo.


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## ddworkm (Apr 4, 2006)

racknspur said:


> Nice to see the prices are still reasonable. You now, with the economy doing so well and so few people in the unemployment line. Fastly becoming the sport of Kings(1000.00 bows and big money land leases!!!!) Un-freakin' believable!


We constantly ask them to put more into a bow which in turn means more money in costs for them and then we complain when the bows cost reflects it? Looks to me like there some reasonably priced bows in there.......Or maybe just buy a used one.....just a thought but I just don't expect to see cheap prices on a bow when we demand they keep improving


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## Poorguy (Feb 12, 2006)

ddworkm said:


> We constantly ask them to put more into a bow which in turn means more money in costs for them and then we complain when the bows cost reflects it? Looks to me like there some reasonably priced bows in there.......Or maybe just buy a used one.....just a thought but I just don't expect to see cheap prices on a bow when we demand they keep improving



Very well said. There is a wide range of prices for bows today, just like autos, houses, guns etc.. One to fit all if not most wallets.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

ddworkm said:


> We constantly ask them to put more into a bow which in turn means more money in costs for them and then we complain when the bows cost reflects it? Looks to me like there some reasonably priced bows in there.......Or maybe just buy a used one.....just a thought but I just don't expect to see cheap prices on a bow when we demand they keep improving



Remember those prices reflect MSRP, shop prices may vary.

And believe me if you saw everything that goes into building one of those bows and the equipment and tolerances it takes to get it just right from start to finish you'd start to understand why they cost so much.

I used to think that myself..'How can these things cost as much as a top end bolt action rifle?"
Well I saw the process first hand from raw material right on through putting one in a box and it's no joke. 
There are some very sophisticated process at work as well as the R&D and testing facilities which house their own state of the art testing equipment. 

I'm not diminishing the fact that it's still a nice chunk of change, because it is!......but I quickly realized that it's justified if you want a company that continues to try to put out what they feel is the best bow on the market.


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Matt,


Any idea of when the other Camo option bows like MAX-4 will start shipping?

Thank you

Engee


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## DesignedToHunt (Aug 5, 2008)

Matt / PA said:


> Remember those prices reflect MSRP, shop prices may vary.
> 
> And believe me if you saw everything that goes into building one of those bows and the equipment and tolerances it takes to get it just right from start to finish you'd start to understand why they cost so much.
> 
> ...





I saw the process a while back on American Archer and while it is sophisticated (as is the process with every company) the only reason bows cost so much is because we are wiling to pay the prices. I know how big of discounts can be given at shops for different brands and considering the fact that dealers still make money on the discounted prices I think it's safe to say that it doesn't cost a bow company nearly as much to make a bow as they want us to believe.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

DesignedToHunt said:


> I saw the process a while back on American Archer and while it is sophisticated (as is the process with every company) the only reason bows cost so much is because we are wiling to pay the prices. I know how big of discounts can be given at shops for different brands and considering the fact that dealers still make money on the discounted prices I think it's safe to say that it doesn't cost a bow company nearly as much to make a bow as they want us to believe.


Do you know how much actual money it costs a company like Bowtech to produce an Admiral, or a DXT for Mathews or a Katera for Hoyt?

It's also more than you would think. It's not just the process and cost of machines, its the string makers,the person checking limb deflections all day, it's the dippers, the production builders, R&D, the machinists, the shippers, the office crew etc etc so on and so on..........they don't wave a magic wand and "Poof!" finished bows go out the door. :wink:
You don't look at a bow and say......."There is X amount of dollars wrapped up in the raw materials so they should cost Y"

But yes they are expensive and if people are willing to pay the price for them then they are not overpriced if a company wishes to make money while also advancing technology.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

INGOZI said:


> Matt,
> 
> 
> Any idea of when the other Camo option bows like MAX-4 will start shipping?
> ...


Let's see.......:set1_chores030:.....well according to my list, I don't have the slightest clue. 

And Engee send me your contact info and your credentials again, I tried to pass your request along to the marketing dept for you yesterday and it bounced back? I'll try again.


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## ChuckE (Aug 21, 2007)

Jhorne said:


> They relocated the string stopper too.


Were there any known problems with the old integrated roller guard/shortstop string stopper design?


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

ChuckE said:


> Were there any known problems with the old integrated roller guard/shortstop string stopper design?



Yep.........people didn't like it.


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## dhayse32 (Jul 19, 2006)

Matt / PA said:


> Remember those prices reflect MSRP, shop prices may vary.
> 
> And believe me if you saw everything that goes into building one of those bows and the equipment and tolerances it takes to get it just right from start to finish you'd start to understand why they cost so much.
> 
> ...



Very true, I have seen some prices before on here of bows and there might be a $200 difference in price from state to state. A lot of the price you pay is based on just how rich the dealer wants to get. My local Bowtech dealer has the best deal around on bows, but his accessories are slightly marked up...EX: in 2007 I got one of the first Guardians that came through his door, $670...that was about $100-$150 cheaper than other places, EBAY was selling them for close to $1000. Now the Viper sight I believe was $90, probably a $80 sight anywhere else, the Quiver was marked up $7, Rest, $10, Arrows, $10/dozen, Releases $10...He can quickly make up that $70-$80 before you leave the store. 

I agree that it costs a great deal of $$ to produce these bows, however the manufacturing costs doesn't vary THAT much year to year, a lot of the price comes from the number 2009. Everyone wants the newest and greatest and there are people, a lot of them on here right now, that will pay major bucks to get their hands on the a fresh new bow now matter what the cost. When Elite had the ENVY and it was going for nearly $1000, I never could figure out why, it was because they slapped a limited number on them and people freaked out. 

I have a slight bow addiction...I am very very happy with my Switchback and told myself that this was the bow I was going to use for years and years, then you dangle these pics in my face and I am thinking of ways to put an Iceman in my bowcase...THANKS! :wink:


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## Gripwerks (Apr 11, 2006)

racknspur said:


> Nice to see the prices are still reasonable. You now, with the economy doing so well and so few people in the unemployment line. Fastly becoming the sport of Kings(1000.00 bows and big money land leases!!!!) Un-freakin' believable!


You can easily get 5-10 years out of a bow and be just as lethal or competitive as the next guy.
Bows are very inexpensive to maintain and shoot.


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## Gripwerks (Apr 11, 2006)

dhayse32 said:


> I agree that it costs a great deal of $$ to produce these bows, however the manufacturing costs doesn't vary THAT much year to year, a lot of the price comes from the number 2009.


Untrue. Material cost of carbon steel are up over 66% in the last 12 months, So I am sure aluminum has risen significantly too. But you have to look at energy costs, shipping, heat treat etc. I bet at these higher prices the manufacturers actually have lower margins....


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Thanks Mike....

Info sent to you via email, sorry to trouble you.

Engee


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## dhayse32 (Jul 19, 2006)

Gripwerks said:


> Untrue. Material cost of carbon steel are up over 66% in the last 12 months, So I am sure aluminum has risen significantly too. But you have to look at energy costs, shipping, heat treat etc. I bet at these higher prices the manufacturers actually have lower margins....


That is VERY true also. Metal prices are crazy right now not to mention GAS! My point was after a bow is a couple of years old, the price generally tends to go down a little, yet it is still the same bow, same material....The WOW factor plays a lot on the price of what comsumers are willing to pay.


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## Gripwerks (Apr 11, 2006)

dhayse32 said:


> That is VERY true also. Metal prices are crazy right now not to mention GAS! My point was after a bow is a couple of years old, the price generally tends to go down a little, yet it is still the same bow, same material....The WOW factor plays a lot on the price of what comsumers are willing to pay.


Agreed. It's all about market value... We (consumers) help put those price tags up there.

Blame the oil companies everyone else does!


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## ChuckE (Aug 21, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> Yep.........people didn't like it.


Okay... I probably should have asked... 

Were there any known MECHANICAL problems with the old roller guard/string stopper combo?


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## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

Anybody else dissaointed in the big speed gap? I was looking for something 335-340 (other than 101) that might draw smoother than my 82nd.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Matt / PA said:


> Yep.........people didn't like it.



:lol3:


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## wacm (Jun 20, 2006)

poole- i agree. i think i might i might pick up a 101. i like the swat but i was hoping it would be mid 330's ibo. i was hoping bowtech would make it easy to decide but now i have to go and make a tough decision. 82nd,101,swat,or sentinal? decisions decisions! i think i should just shoot mathews that way i would just have one to choose from!:wink:


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## MTNHunt (Oct 27, 2007)

Admiral looks nice, but I wish it was around the 340 FPS mark. I guess I can wait. Maybe, Maybe not.


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## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*short stop*

I heard that the rubber on the short stop would wear out FAST, and sometimes they were difficult to adjust.ukey:


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

wdriver said:


> I heard that the rubber on the short stop would wear out FAST, and sometimes they were difficult to adjust.ukey:


You "heard" incorrectly. :wink:


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

Why so much worry about 'speed' try being a lady, we don't normally shoot 70lbs or have a 29 inch draw...I am happy to get 245 out of a hunting arrow and hopefully 270 for my 3d arrows....just shoot what you got and be happy!!


How many of you killed a deer with an old whitetail 2 that might not have shot 350fps, the deer are just as dead and you hunted just as hard...its ok to want all that speed I guess but be happy that we are all able to get out and hunt and shoot 3d or spots or whatever you want to do!!!


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## realmfg (Jun 4, 2005)

absolutecool said:


> Why so much worry about 'speed'


My obsession of speed comes down to shooting lower poundages. I switched from 70lb to 60lb and it has made shooting much more enjoyable.


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## joeyb (Jan 2, 2003)

*Bowtech camo & target patterns for 2009*

Not sure if this has been posted yet but here are the available camo & target patterns for 2009:

Realtree HD Green - standard

Optional patterns:

Realtree HD Grey
APG HD
AP HD
Advantage Max-4 HD
Mossy Oak Brush
Next FLX Digital
Camowest Vanish Hybrid
Gore Optigrade Concealment Technology

Target Patterns:

Fire Storm Candy Red
Fire Storm Candy Green
Fire Storm Candy Purple
Testarossa



Joey


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## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*Shortstop / cable roller*

Were there any real problems?


NYBowhunter911 said:


> You "heard" incorrectly. :wink:


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## R0CKETMAN (Sep 10, 2008)

Joey,
Dale or Ronny say when we can expect the first Admiral to arrive. Can it be ordered for delivery now?


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## 2066 (Jan 4, 2003)

absolutecool said:


> Why so much worry about 'speed' try being a lady, we don't normally shoot 70lbs or have a 29 inch draw...I am happy to get 245 out of a hunting arrow and hopefully 270 for my 3d arrows....just shoot what you got and be happy!!
> 
> 
> How many of you killed a deer with an old whitetail 2 that might not have shot 350fps, the deer are just as dead and you hunted just as hard...its ok to want all that speed I guess but be happy that we are all able to get out and hunt and shoot 3d or spots or whatever you want to do!!!



I agree!

I would rather have a "slow" kill than a "fast" miss!

When you have a short draw length, like I do...you go for accuracy over speed! 

I am just thankful that we all have the opportunity to get out there and shoot...no matter what you choose to shoot! 

Take Care and Shoot Straight!


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

wdriver said:


> Were there any real problems?


No no mechanical problems........it really isn't a "Bad" unit, but the rubber was a complaint on some, along with some reports of tuning issues, kisser button conflicts, down to it just being ugly/clunky/bulky/not sexy whatever. 
IMO it also seemed to increase the percieved noise level a bit because it is right in front of your face when shot.

All in all it was good in theory but wasn't well received. So live and learn and move on for 2009.:darkbeer:


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

hey Matt, will the 09's have the "in-velvet" ???


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

tiner64 said:


> hey Matt, will the 09's have the "in-velvet" ???


Nobody has said anything to me stating otherwise so I would think the use of the Invelvet finish a given for 09'. It's way too cool of a finish not to keep using and was really well received.


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

thanks for reply... agree, the in-velvet finish adds a x'tra nice touch


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Matt / PA said:


> No no mechanical problems........it really isn't a "Bad" unit, but the rubber was a complaint on some, along with some reports of tuning issues, kisser button conflicts, down to it just being ugly/clunky/bulky/not sexy whatever.
> IMO it also seemed to increase the percieved noise level a bit because it is right in front of your face when shot.
> 
> All in all it was good in theory but wasn't well received. So live and learn and move on for 2009.:darkbeer:



Yet another innovation from BowTech,, listening to what the customers want and willing to respond very fast:wink:

A great looking line up for 2009 that will be sure to jump start,,, the archery economy:darkbeer:


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

i hear there gonna come with a set of saftey glasses and a crash helmet


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> i hear there gonna come with a set of saftey glasses and a crash helmet


I sense some *SPEED ENVY*... :zip:


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

It looks like Bowtech has taken a step back from the speed bows, except for the 82nd. This should be an interesting lineup.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

J.C. said:


> I'm pretty sure they use Tru-glo.


some of their bows use tru-glo some of them are black gold workhorses(Trust me i know the black gold side of the story:wink


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

Perfectionist said:


> It looks like Bowtech has taken a step back from the speed bows, except for the 82nd. This should be an interesting lineup.



The Admiral brace height is 7 1/2"...that spec sheet is incorrect. FYI.


If you want some more insight on speed of the bows please hop back about 42 pages as there was some discussion on it.:wink:


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

It may have been asked and answered but if guys are going to start getting these new bows tomorrow as they claim, when is BT going to update their web page with the new bows?


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## ddworkm (Apr 4, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> It looks like Bowtech has taken a step back from the speed bows, except for the 82nd. This should be an interesting lineup.


I would agree with that it "looks" that way. but if you read the method used to determine these speeds are they really that slow? If take everyone elses method and add 7 to 8 fps to that number making in the low end and making the top end that fastest bow of that make that was made then we would all be fightin mad when we bought ours. I for one am excited that this speed is a true speed that I can expect to see!!


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## ArchersParadox (May 12, 2005)

> I have a slight bow addiction...I am very very happy with my Switchback and told myself that this was the bow I was going to use for years and years, then you dangle these pics in my face and I am thinking of ways to put an Iceman in my bowcase...THANKS



Sell the Switchback....come on over....we promise you won't regret it..

:wink:


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## IL~Hunter (Jul 23, 2005)

I WANNA SEE THE DANG TARGET COLORS NOW!

lol where are they i need to place an order if anyone know what the target colors are PM me!


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## Honeymonster (Nov 3, 2005)

I'd like to seem them too!


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

I wanna see Pat's deer!


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

NYBowhunter911 said:


> I wanna see Pat's deer!


 Yes, lets see the first blood drawn with an '09:tongue:


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

walks with a gi said:


> Yes, lets see the first blood drawn with an '09:tongue:


yep, I am with ya..........:tongue:


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## naubusan (Mar 23, 2007)

Asked this already earlier.. Does someone already know??



naubusan said:


> Is that 82nd roller guard redesigned? or same as old one except shortstop removed from it.


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## racknspur (Jan 24, 2007)

DesignedToHunt said:


> I saw the process a while back on American Archer and while it is sophisticated (as is the process with every company) the only reason bows cost so much is because we are wiling to pay the prices. I know how big of discounts can be given at shops for different brands and considering the fact that dealers still make money on the discounted prices I think it's safe to say that it doesn't cost a bow company nearly as much to make a bow as they want us to believe.


Fact! And yes, there are some reasonably priced bows out there. Made w/the same materials and same amount, a lot of the same tolerances and tech., maybe not as fast, but I don't believe price should ever reflect speed if I said that right. IMO $450-$675 is about it for any compound! When it starts to eclipse $700, thats when I say WTFrig.ukey:


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## jkeiffer (Aug 3, 2007)

racknspur said:


> Fact! And yes, there are some reasonably priced bows out there. Made w/the same materials and same amount, a lot of the same tolerances and tech., maybe not as fast, but I don't believe price should ever reflect speed if I said that right. IMO $450-$675 is about it for any compound! When it starts to eclipse $700, thats when I say WTFrig.ukey:


most of the cost is determined by the amount of machine time on the riser. look at a PSE stinger vs an X Force. on the stinger the outer profile (looking at the bow from the side) air in the handle and maybe the edge breaks are the only machining that is performed and ussually with larger radius tooling so that the cutting program can run faster.

then look at the X Force, every surface on the handle is machined, nice radius's instead of edge breaks, lots of passes over the grip area to achieve the shape, profile and contour in that area, smaller radius's on the air in the handle so the machine runs slower.

on the material side there is generealy more aluminum on a higher end bow (not always) to have a more layed back limb angle for parallel limbs and a reasonable ATA.

hope that helps a bit, plus everything is based on % margins, as the machining and material costs go up so does the end cost since its all set on a series of margins.

later
jkeiffer


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## ddworkm (Apr 4, 2006)

naubusan said:


> Asked this already earlier.. Does someone already know??


Earlier post from Matt said that it was a little different


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## Treething (Mar 14, 2007)

I like the upgrades to the Constitution. I was looking for a little more speed out of the center pivots at least 330. They should have left the Alley alone; it had good speed and was still shoot able.


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

Treething said:


> I like the upgrades to the Constitution. I was looking for a little more speed out of the center pivots at least 330. They should have left the Alley alone; it had good speed and was still shoot able.


A bow shooting 330 fps IBO would hit a 30 yd target in .27 seconds with 84.65 lbs of KE. A bow shooting 300 fps IBO would hit the same target in .30 seconds with 69.96 lbs of KE. The deer aren't going to be able to tell the difference :wink:. Reading through this whole post you should have noticed it has been stated that Bowtech has used conservative numbers when speed rating their bows this year. I don't think the verdict can be made on these new bows before anyone has even had one in their hands. I've had 7 different bows this year and believe me bow speed ratings are usually nowhere near what is advertised. Although I will say that some of the Bowtech bows that I owned this year were better than the listed IBO speed rating after they were tuned properly. I had an 82nd that shot 343 fps at 29" 70lb with the factory string after it was tuned. That would have placed it at 353 IBO with a 30" draw which would have been over their listed IBO ratings. Like I said earlier I'll have one of these bows in my hands Today or Monday and I'll let you know what it can do.


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## smonk (May 18, 2006)

Is this the whole line or is there 1 bow missing?:secret:


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## ChuckE (Aug 21, 2007)

Matt / PA said:


> No no mechanical problems........it really isn't a "Bad" unit, but the rubber was a complaint on some, along with some reports of tuning issues, kisser button conflicts, down to it just being ugly/clunky/bulky/not sexy whatever.
> IMO it also seemed to increase the percieved noise level a bit because it is right in front of your face when shot.
> 
> All in all it was good in theory but wasn't well received. So live and learn and move on for 2009.:darkbeer:


I emailed Bowtech asking them why they made the change to the separate roller guard/string stopper, and Nick at Tech Support responded back and said he was...

_"Not sure exactly , Every year we try new Ideas."_

I like Matt/PA's answer. It makes more sense.


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## JAMBF750 (Jan 7, 2008)

ChuckE said:


> I emailed Bowtech asking them why they made the change to the separate roller guard/string stopper, and Nick at Tech Support responded back and said he was...
> 
> _"Not sure exactly , Every year we try new Ideas."_
> 
> I like Matt/PA's answer. It makes more sense.


I know why.....because it's better! I made the change a long time ago.


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## stixshooter (Mar 18, 2006)

I was wondering when they will run out of military names but there should plenty for a while ... I'd like to see a "F-18"
aka "The Hornet" That would be spanky .. 33" ATA 7 .75 BH 330 fps single cam w/draw stop in Predator or ASAT


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## Treething (Mar 14, 2007)

helix33 said:


> A bow shooting 330 fps IBO would hit a 30 yd target in .27 seconds with 84.65 lbs of KE. A bow shooting 300 fps IBO would hit the same target in .30 seconds with 69.96 lbs of KE. The deer aren't going to be able to tell the difference :wink:. Reading through this whole post you should have noticed it has been stated that Bowtech has used conservative numbers when speed rating their bows this year. I don't think the verdict can be made on these new bows before anyone has even had one in their hands. I've had 7 different bows this year and believe me bow speed ratings are usually nowhere near what is advertised. Although I will say that some of the Bowtech bows that I owned this year were better than the listed IBO speed rating after they were tuned properly. I had an 82nd that shot 343 fps at 29" 70lb with the factory string after it was tuned. That would have placed it at 353 IBO with a 30" draw which would have been over their listed IBO ratings. Like I said earlier I'll have one of these bows in my hands Today or Monday and I'll let you know what it can do.


Hay I'm just stating my 2 for what its worth. I am on my 4th BT in the last three years so I am not bashing in any way. I had a Guardian last year that was sold to my brother. I may also purchase one depending on if I like it or not. My comments were based just on the information at hand, I will also shoot them prior to making my final decision. But thanks for the response.


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## Bucket Head (Oct 25, 2006)

I wonder if any of these are going to be offered in an 80# model?


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

Perfectionist said:


> I sense some *SPEED ENVY*... :zip:


nope NO blowtecs for me , thanks anyways


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## ddworkm (Apr 4, 2006)

Bucket Head said:


> I wonder if any of these are going to be offered in an 80# model?


Saw in mentioned on here and they said not as of right now but thought it might happen soon


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> nope NO blowtecs for me , thanks anyways


So, all you can do is call names and throw insults? Sounds like envy to me. :zip:


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## bobcat91 (Oct 18, 2006)

I have been patiently waiting for over a year to get one of the new CP Bowtech's in the MO Treestand pattern sine I saw it advertised last year. Why is it not offered? I have heard that there were problems with the film last year and that it was not acceptible to MO, but there has been a year to fix this. PSE and I believe that Parker will offer bows dipped in Treestand so I know that Bowtech can get it straightened out. Or is it because that PSE wants to use it almost exclusevely this year? Or does RealTree not want to see it listed as an option. I WANT MY ADMIRAL IN TREESTAND!!!!! :sad:


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

Perfectionist said:


> So, all you can do is call names and throw insults? Sounds like envy to me. :zip:


no i just think it is ridiculus that u bowtech fanboys swore up and down those exploded bows were "PRESSED WRONG" (there was no way bowtech had a limb problem).and then when bowtech took there sweet time decideing to own up to the limb problems (and patch it with a pin) you guys just shut up and got in line for another one ,it also seems they have slowed down most of there 09 lineup , guess they still cant figure out how to make a better set of limbs .so dont flatter yourself there fanboy,ill take a smooth slightly slower bow over a fast time bomb anyday.


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

bobcat91 said:


> I have been patiently waiting for over a year to get one of the new CP Bowtech's in the MO Treestand pattern sine I saw it advertised last year. Why is it not offered? I have heard that there were problems with the film last year and that it was not acceptible to MO, but there has been a year to fix this. PSE and I believe that Parker will offer bows dipped in Treestand so I know that Bowtech can get it straightened out. Or is it because that PSE wants to use it almost exclusevely this year? Or does RealTree not want to see it listed as an option. I WANT MY ADMIRAL IN TREESTAND!!!!! :sad:


I heard that the pattern didn't look very good on bows. It was very bland and the bows looked almost like they were painted gray. This is why Bowtech didn't use it is what I heard. This may not be the case but this explanation seemed logical. If you look at the Tree Stand pattern there isn't a lot of contrast, it's mostly gray with a few dark branches to contrast the gray back ground. As far as clothing goes I like it but I can see how it may look to gray on a bow. This is Just what I heard.


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> no i just think it is ridiculus that u bowtech fanboys swore up and down those exploded bows were "PRESSED WRONG" (there was no way bowtech had a limb problem).and then when bowtech took there sweet time decideing to own up to the limb problems (and patch it with a pin) you guys just shut up and got in line for another one ,it also seems they have slowed down most of there 09 lineup , guess they still cant figure out how to make a better set of limbs .so dont flatter yourself there fanboy,ill take a smooth slightly slower bow over a fast time bomb anyday.


If you don't have anything on topic to say please don't say anything at all. This post is about the 09 Bowtech lineup and nothing else. If you feel a need to criticize or bash go start your own thread with that intention as the topic so that everyone that posts can stay on topic in your thread. I think most people on AT are tired of this type of behavior and thread high jacking. Remember everyone has an opinion and that's OK. Most people here on AT don't care what brand of bow someone else is shooting. Glad to see your happy with your bow.


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## scottmedia (Jun 28, 2007)

*I called it*

I knew that they would come out with the center pivot with a single cam through Diamond. I had heard that Mathews was trying to buy the patent or something. I wanted to get a 101st last year, figured i'd get it this year, guess not. I wish they would have made one of the new center pivots with the same cams on the 82nd, would be a smokin fast and smooth bow. :wink:


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## Bfreeland (Nov 2, 2007)

*sorry if this has been asked*

has anyone SEEN pictures of the target colors? also what colors are the limbs on the three firestorm bows im assuming the testarossa hasnt changed


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## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

If you have a binary cam center pivot at theses specs:
*Admiral 7" 40,50,60,70 24-30 31 1/16" 320 $829*

Why would you buy the binary over the single cam at these specs?
*Iceman 7.125 40,50,60,70 26-30 31.5 323 $829
*
More BH and more speed????? Probably a smoother draw....why is the binary not any faster?


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## ironman5946 (May 29, 2007)

poole said:


> If you have a binary cam center pivot at theses specs:
> *Admiral 7" 40,50,60,70 24-30 31 1/16" 320 $829*
> 
> Why would you buy the binary over the single cam at these specs?
> ...


look at the 82nd it is fast enough


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## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

I realize that....I have an 82nd...im comparing the 2 in my post. I would expect the binary to be faster with nearly the same BH and A2A.


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## Ryan.Johnson (Nov 9, 2006)

The binary is faster it was posted wrong it is a 340 ibo bow


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

The correct spec on the Admiral is 320 fps IBO. 340 is not accurate.


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

poole said:


> If you have a binary cam center pivot at theses specs:
> *Admiral 7" 40,50,60,70 24-30 31 1/16" 320 $829*
> 
> Why would you buy the binary over the single cam at these specs?
> ...


*The Brace height on the Admiral is 7 1/2"*....not 7". The listed 320 fps speed rating IS correct.


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## ky_bowhunter (Mar 5, 2007)

Doesnt it occur to some of you that maybe they decided to go with a little less aggressive cam for you guys that complain about the draw. Twin and binary cams can have a smooth draw too you know. Like any cam system though you gotta give up a little speed.


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## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

ky_bowhunter said:


> Doesnt it occur to some of you that maybe they decided to go with a little less aggressive cam for you guys that complain about the draw. Twin and binary cams can have a smooth draw too you know. Like any cam system though you gotta give up a little speed.


That was kind-of my point. I would guess that the single cam would be a smoother draw, but it is still a little faster that the binary that would typically have a little more aggressive draw. I was just wondering why even make the binary with similar specs.....other that the fact that it is in the "Bowtech" line and not the "Diamond line".


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## Ryan.Johnson (Nov 9, 2006)

I was wrong sorry. I thought for sure some one posted the wrong speed but it must have been the brace


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## niteshade (Feb 7, 2004)

:wink: iceman on order


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> no i just think it is ridiculus that u bowtech fanboys swore up and down those exploded bows were "PRESSED WRONG" (there was no way bowtech had a limb problem).and then when bowtech took there sweet time decideing to own up to the limb problems (and patch it with a pin) you guys just shut up and got in line for another one ,it also seems they have slowed down most of there 09 lineup , guess they still cant figure out how to make a better set of limbs .so dont flatter yourself there fanboy,ill take a smooth slightly slower bow over a fast time bomb anyday.


Wow, you are living in the past, and are in the state of confusion. It was proved that the problems with the Bowtech Allegiance, Mathews Drenalin and PSE X-Force 6 were all caused by incorrect pressing. That has been thoroughly documented. 

Now if you are talking about the General, there again you need to grow up and open your eyes. Noone has denied that there was a problem. That has been resolved.

Call me a fanboy if you like, but just remember. I'm not descending to childish name-calling (i.e. Blotech, etc). Seems like the problem is on your side of the keyboard. But if you want to go there, just remember, these new bows will *"Blo"-away* your Q2... :chortle:


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## oregon bowman (Aug 17, 2008)

I shot the SWAT and the Ademirel today man their nice bows and a heck of alot lighter than my Guardin to i just should have waited a year to buy a new bow


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## wdriver (Aug 21, 2008)

*Admiral vs. Guardian*

How were the draws on the Admiral and the Swat compared to the Guardian? I have a Guardian (2008) and I like it very much, but it is harder to draw than my Hoyt. Just Curious.


oregon bowman said:


> I shot the SWAT and the Ademirel today man their nice bows and a heck of alot lighter than my Guardin to i just should have waited a year to buy a new bow


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## steve_T (Mar 11, 2007)

no allegance? the swat loooks like a nice bow maybe similar to the tom kat but there sure is some weird names.


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## 05-BTOG (May 20, 2006)

btguymt said:


> Brace Height	Draw Weights	Draw Length	A2A	IBO	MSR
> 
> SWAT	7 1/8 50,60,70 26-31" 34"	322	$699
> /pkg $999


Seriously, $300 in extras, I just don't see that, there is no way. Someone is smoking something funny at bowtech this year.


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## chevy4x4 (Aug 10, 2008)

Im really impresed. This will make my decision on a new bow really hard now. Im gettin a new one after this season. I'll have to shoot the SWAT and Stud then decide if I want one of them or an 07 or 08 Used Black Ice for about the same price


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## absolutecool (Mar 26, 2006)

I used to have a 'Sniper' a long time ago...I won't say which manufacturer it was....

But I am looking forward to this new lineup from Bowtech!!!


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## BOWTECH DAWG (Nov 30, 2007)

Swwweeett!!!


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

Perfectionist said:


> Wow, you are living in the past, and are in the state of confusion. It was proved that the problems with the Bowtech Allegiance, Mathews Drenalin and PSE X-Force 6 were all caused by incorrect pressing. That has been thoroughly documented.
> 
> Now if you are talking about the General, there again you need to grow up and open your eyes. Noone has denied that there was a problem. That has been resolved.
> 
> ...


"blo "me away way with what limb FRAGMENTS .besides i prefer my ARROW to hit the target not my LIMB .

and by the way sarcasm works best when u know what u are talking about ,when u dont sarcasm makes u look ignorant, i dont shoot a q2 ,i shoot a switchback, and a ovation.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> ,i shoot a switchback, and a ovation.


Obviously not as much as you shoot your mouth. :wink:


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> "blo "me away way with what limb FRAGMENTS .besides i prefer my ARROW to hit the target not my LIMB .
> 
> and by the way sarcasm works best when u know what u are talking about ,when u dont sarcasm makes u look ignorant, i dont shoot a q2 ,i shoot a switchback, and a ovation.


No, sarcasm works best when u have a fast bow... but you wouldn't know about that.  :lol:




NYBowhunter911 said:


> Obviously not as much as you shoot your mouth. :wink:


No that's funny, I don't care who you are... :rofl:


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

I have my eye on the "STUD"!!!! LOL....where did the General go, he must of recieved higher rank this year....:wink:


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

Bonehead1 said:


> I have my eye on the "STUD"!!!! LOL....where did the General go, he must of recieved higher rank this year....:wink:


:zip: ukey: :secret: :set1_rolf2:


sorry.. I had to do it..


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

NYBowhunter911 said:


> Obviously not as much as you shoot your mouth. :wink:


no more than any of u fanboys on here u guys are just bent cause im not praising ur brand of bow , funny when u gus complain ,bash mathews and hoyt its your expert opinion , but when someone points out the obvious about bowtecs shortcommings yall get all bent out of shape ,if mahews had a recall on there limbs there would be thousands of threads , but since its bowtech , yall dont want to talk about it .


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

Perfectionist said:


> No, sarcasm works best when u have a fast bow... but you wouldn't know about that.  :lol:
> 
> wow thats a clever comeback ,hope u didnt hurt yourself comeing up with that .
> 
> No that's funny, I don't care who you are... :rofl:


i see your as easy to amuse as you are to please ,


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## wacm (Jun 20, 2006)

how soon you forget. about three weeks ago there was a thread about some bad bearings in your beloved mathews. i think it had about 10 hits! sounds like ALL the bowtech guys were all over that one the only one that has a problem here is you.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> no more than any of u fanboys on here u guys are just bent cause im not praising ur brand of bow , funny when u gus complain ,bash mathews and hoyt its your expert opinion , but when someone points out the obvious about bowtecs shortcommings yall get all bent out of shape ,if mahews had a recall on there limbs there would be thousands of threads , but since its bowtech , yall dont want to talk about it .


You are so blinded by your own brand-name loyalty, that you come onto a Bowtech thread, start bashing, and then when people poke fun at you, you act as if everyone else has the problem. You need to get a life.


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## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

my dad can beat up your dad.....


seriously guys..


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## so1ocam (Aug 24, 2007)

*2009 Bowtechs*

I like the changes they made, new riser, better STS, improved limbs, adjustable DL by changing a bolt on the cams. Can't wait to shoot the Captain and the Ice Man.


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

Perfectionist said:


> You are so blinded by your own brand-name loyalty, that you come onto a Bowtech thread, start bashing, and then when people poke fun at you, you act as if everyone else has the problem. You need to get a life.


i never said anything about what brand i shoot ,until u made an assumption.

its k when u guys go on a mathews thread and bash them ,why isnt it okfor me to point out bowtechs shortcomings ,i mean come guys its ok to say bowtechs limbs suck they've already admitted it


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

wacm said:


> how soon you forget. about three weeks ago there was a thread about some bad bearings in your beloved mathews. i think it had about 10 hits! sounds like ALL the bowtech guys were all over that one the only one that has a problem here is you.


thers a big difference in bearings going bad and limbs snapping of at the axles ending the cam flying back at the shooter .

do a search on broken mathews limbs and see how many hits those got 



lets compare apples to apples 


i dont have a probem at all ,if mathews had to recall there limbs id be the first to say there limbs sucked , lets face it a recall isnt something u strive for


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## speedfreak (May 26, 2005)

Anybody that wants to compare apples to apples when refering to Bowtech and mathews ain't got all their serving wound real tight if you know what I mean. We all appreciate your concerns about Bowtechs limb issues, I'm sure it's concern for our safety that's making you run off at the mouth and make yourself look like a donkey's butt but here's a little good advice and common sense for ya: if you don't like Bowtech, please don't buy one. Mathews enjoys your blindne...er business and promises to continue to make perfect bows for you for years to come.


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## matthews85 (Sep 10, 2008)

Why does everyone always like to compare Matthews to BowTech as they are in an entirely different category. Matthews makes a single cam. Why not keep the Matthews comparisons to Diamond for example. I always get a kick out of these comparisons. I am a Matthews guy but the Iceman looks pretty sweet. I might just have to shoot one of those. Now when Matthews can design a single cam that shoots 350 fps and the limbs hold up then I might also be bashing BowTech but I believe that some of our wants with these new bows are limited by the materials that are currently available. I cannot wait to see the new Matthews line-up but for some reason I am pretty skeptical that they will have anything that compares to the Diamond Iceman. I guess I can just keep hoping and see what happens.


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## 22feetseat (Aug 12, 2008)

*More Speed Wanted*



realmfg said:


> Man wish there was a center Pivot at about 340. Maybe next year


ME2! can u tell that maybe the C.P. bows dont pivot the same way ? It looks like they are solid where 08 pivots ?


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## 'Ike' (Jan 10, 2003)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> i never said anything about what brand i shoot ,until u made an assumption.
> 
> its k when u guys go on a mathews thread and bash them ,why isnt it okfor me to point out bowtechs shortcomings ,i mean come guys its ok to say bowtechs limbs suck they've already admitted it



Dude, you come on here several pages back just to start @#$%! You got called on it! Learn how to spell and type then come back and see us...Shheezz!


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> no more than any of u fanboys on here u guys are just bent cause im not praising ur brand of bow , funny when u gus complain ,bash mathews and hoyt its your expert opinion , but when someone points out the obvious about bowtecs shortcommings yall get all bent out of shape ,if mahews had a recall on there limbs there would be thousands of threads , but since its bowtech , yall dont want to talk about it .


No more than one of yuou bashers, hellbent on running Bowtech into the ground, when you don't even have a dog in the fight. Get over yourself, Bowtech makes good equipment. As does Matthews, and every other manufacturer. Not one of these companies makes bad equipment. Why can't you see that..


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> no more than any of u fanboys on here u guys are just bent cause im not praising ur brand of bow , funny when u gus complain ,bash mathews and hoyt its your expert opinion , but when someone points out the obvious about bowtecs shortcommings yall get all bent out of shape ,if mahews had a recall on there limbs there would be thousands of threads , but since its bowtech , yall dont want to talk about it .


Bowtech had a recall on the General Limbs only, so what. What company hasn't ever had a recall. Recalls are part of manufacturing and happen to the best of companies. If you do some research I'm sure you will find that Mathews and Hoyt and every other bow company has had their share of recalls. The point is go start you own thread if you want to discuss this because it's not the topic of this thread. I've asked nicely twice, If you continue to post off of topic and start senseless bickering I'll request your removal from this sight. No one cares what bow you shoot, grow up.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Please, Mathews is spelled with ONE "T", not two....If you are going to come on here and defend your brand - ESPECIALLY if it is part of your screen name - SPELL MATHEWS CORRECTLY!!!!!!!!!

I agree wholeheartedly - comparing a Bowtech to a Ma*TH*ews is silly...they are two totally different animals! I shot Mathews for a long time, had MANY different models, and always enjoyed them. 

Last year I got a wild hair up my rear and decided to try a Bowtech after hearing my buddy rave about his for so long...I picked up a used Guardian, and once it was tuned...it was NOTHING SHORT OF AMAZING. *REALLY*. 

I seriously wish the fanboys who spout off at the mouth would just TRY one....not one or two shots, but a bunch....spend some time behind a Bowtech and you too will see....they really are a total package....good grip, GREAT strings, smooth draw, no recoil, sexy design.....All I had to do was bolt on a sight, rest, and stabilizer when I got my 101st...didn't need to change the strings to a good set....didn't need to put an STS on....nothing....Thanks Bowtech for taking the time to put together a good, solid bow!

I know ALOT of the back and forth fanboy comments are meant in jest...just ball bustin'...but there are seriously guys out there with BLINDERS on....it's quite silly...

Before you bash....TRY one......


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

NYBowhunter911 said:


> Please, Mathews is spelled with ONE "T", not two....If you are going to come on here and defend your brand - ESPECIALLY if it is part of your screen name - SPELL MATHEWS CORRECTLY!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly - comparing a Bowtech to a Ma*TH*ews is silly...they are two totally different animals! I shot Mathews for a long time, had MANY different models, and always enjoyed them.
> 
> ...






.............and that's all that needs to be said about that. Good post!


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## Tmack (Sep 25, 2008)

Are they forcing people in LA. to buy Bowtech bows?


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## marforme (May 30, 2006)

First, I can't believe this thread has over 500 posts. . . . . of course about 450 of them are completely worthless.

Second, you all need to settle down and quit running the mouth. . . . in both directions.


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## so1ocam (Aug 24, 2007)

*09 Bowtechs*



1stQ2XLMAN said:


> no more than any of u fanboys on here u guys are just bent cause im not praising ur brand of bow , funny when u gus complain ,bash mathews and hoyt its your expert opinion , but when someone points out the obvious about bowtecs shortcommings yall get all bent out of shape ,if mahews had a recall on there limbs there would be thousands of threads , but since its bowtech , yall dont want to talk about it .


Why do you have to keep dragging Bowtech through the mud? They manned up and fixed their limb problem. I give them a big pat on the back for doing so. LET IT GO. Who cares what the fanboys say about the limb problem be it a press or design issue, it has been resolved. By the way I'm no Bowtech fanboy, I just respect the fact they make a great product. I also like the improvements Bowtech made this year. If the 09 bows shoot anywhere close to the Guardian I'm gonna own one.


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## UltraElite 06 (Nov 21, 2007)

Why cant you compare Mathews to Bowtech they are both top end equipment ment to perform the same task.They just go about it in slightly different manner.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

matthews85 said:


> Why does everyone always like to compare Matthews to BowTech as they are in an entirely different category. Matthews makes a single cam. Why not keep the Matthews comparisons to Diamond for example. I always get a kick out of these comparisons. I am a Matthews guy but the Iceman looks pretty sweet. I might just have to shoot one of those. Now when Matthews can design a single cam that shoots 350 fps and the limbs hold up then I might also be bashing BowTech but I believe that some of our wants with these new bows are limited by the materials that are currently available. I cannot wait to see the new Matthews line-up but for some reason I am pretty skeptical that they will have anything that compares to the Diamond Iceman. I guess I can just keep hoping and see what happens.


 People like to compare bows of different brands to determine what they will buy next,, it's called shopping:wink:


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> i never said anything about what brand i shoot ,until u made an assumption.


Gee, your screen name has Q2XL right in the middle... :der: It doesn't take an aerospace engineer to figure this out. :chortle:



1stQ2XLMAN said:


> its k when u guys go on a mathews thread and bash them ,why isnt it okfor me to point out bowtechs shortcomings ,i mean come guys its ok to say bowtechs limbs suck they've already admitted it


Check your facts. Find the the last 20 threads about Mathews, and show me how many Bowtech owners trashed their bows. And I don't mean banter between friends. I mean comments like yours... unprovoked and unwanted.

Next I can surely dredge up the last 20 threads about Bowtech, where tons of foul-minded fanboys LIKE YOU jump in on an innocent conversation and drag it to the ground. Face it, Bowtech owners are trying to show you how *ridiculous you are acting* :binkybaby:, as well as Mathews owners, as well as Hoyt owners... Can you see the trend? :box:

Now when it comes to the limbs, there again, it's been stated a million times. The problem was recognized, identified and a solution has been put out there. You need to get over yourself.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I'm trying to decide between the Admiral or the Captain. I REALLY like short bows but the 34 inch Captain is close to my '05 Allegiance that is a tack driver in terms of accuracy in my hands. I'm wondering if there is any difference in the risers between these two new bows or if the only difference is the limb angle for the longer bow. The Captain is a bit faster on paper. I ended up giving my '06 Tribute to my brother this summer and I really liked that bow, shot my best ever buck and tom turkey with that little bow. 

I'm thinking I need a 31 inch replacement:tongue:


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Well looking past the idiotic bashing of a company and line of bows by a Mathews fan that obviously has no understanding of what it takes to be a market leading bow company...

My local dealer says it will only be another three weeks before the new bows get here!!!! I am truly like a kid before Christmas! The only sad part is that the MAX 4 Captain I ordered will only get here much later, but oh well, in the meanwhile I can tinker with the whole range!


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## RamRock (May 22, 2008)

WEEL, i got curious and went and shot the admiral and swat, the BC on the admiral said 319 and the swat said 311 both at 71sum pounds /350gr
the admiral is compairable to the general but felt slightly more harsh to pull/solid wall and nice feel,,the swat was smoother than an alle,,it seems that there a tad on the slow side to me, but that may be to the new rotating draw mods, and i was told by the salesman that they were laminated limbs,,i also found it intiresting that the admiral had no clips on axel tips, instead they had small hex head screw that threaded into the inner part of axels im guessing,, fit and finish overall looked quite nice,better design than the last center-pivot,s and the swat will be popular for all the allegiance fans..


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## PUG (Nov 3, 2002)

*Enough!!*

*The next member that spits out a "blo-tech" or a "blo-me".....gets blown out of here on vacation...its rediculous....start acting like grownups....

PUG*


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## vmir (Mar 24, 2008)

*limbs*

Does anyone no if they fixed there limb situation.. I am looking for a new 09. The admiral looks really sweet. Shot my buddies general and like it a lot. Just worried about the limbs


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

PUG said:


> *The next member that spits out a "blo-tech" or a "blo-me".....gets blown out of here on vacation...its rediculous....start acting like grownups....
> 
> PUG*


Very well said... LOL.... Thank you PUG..


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## ZA206 (Oct 28, 2004)

Hey INGOZI.... did you order a 80# Captain?

-ZA



INGOZI said:


> Well looking past the idiotic bashing of a company and line of bows by a Mathews fan that obviously has no understanding of what it takes to be a market leading bow company...
> 
> My local dealer says it will only be another three weeks before the new bows get here!!!! I am truly like a kid before Christmas! The only sad part is that the MAX 4 Captain I ordered will only get here much later, but oh well, in the meanwhile I can tinker with the whole range!


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## Tax Lawyer (Feb 5, 2003)

INGOZI said:


> The only sad part is that the MAX 4 Captain I ordered will only get here much later


I ordered the same thing.....but in LH.....so we are both going to be waiting.


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## Breathn (Jun 12, 2005)

*ttt*

Man I thought there was drama on the soaps that my wife watches.... I love all bows and if I was rich would have one of each.I think these bows will be shooters.They have had a couple years to perfect the design and am sure it is perfected with this line...


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## libertyman09 (Sep 28, 2008)

*2009 bowtech and diamond bows*



wdriver said:


> How were the draws on the Admiral and the Swat compared to the Guardian? I have a Guardian (2008) and I like it very much, but it is harder to draw than my Hoyt. Just Curious.


so does anyone have a picture of one of these bows ?!? im a die hard bowtech fan and i wanna see it


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

look at the first page of this thread...


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

hunter_tlh said:


> No more than one of yuou bashers, hellbent on running Bowtech into the ground, when you don't even have a dog in the fight. Get over yourself, Bowtech makes good equipment. As does Matthews, and every other manufacturer. Not one of these companies makes bad equipment. Why can't you see that..




well if bowtech is so great why the recall ,maybe you should check your vision mines fine


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

helix33 said:


> Bowtech had a recall on the General Limbs only, so what. What company hasn't ever had a recall. Recalls are part of manufacturing and happen to the best of companies. If you do some research I'm sure you will find that Mathews and Hoyt and every other bow company has had their share of recalls. The point is go start you own thread if you want to discuss this because it's not the topic of this thread. I've asked nicely twice, If you continue to post off of topic and start senseless bickering I'll request your removal from this sight. No one cares what bow you shoot, grow up.


well then request my removal from the site , whats your reason gonna be ,i didnt agree with u .

i hope knowone cares what bow i shoot ,im not promoting my bow or even talking about it , and i never said my bow was better than yours


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

ZA206 said:


> Hey INGOZI.... did you order a 80# Captain?
> 
> -ZA


I had ordered the Captain in MAX 4 asking my dealer to add that if there is any chance at all in getting the bow in 80# that I'll wait, no matter how long. I really hope that they will be available in the higher poundage as I really prefer shooting a heavy bow & arrow combination.

Anyone perhaps know if there is the slightest chance of getting them in 80#?

Hey Tax! Good to hear I'm not going to be the only guy crossing the weeks off my calendar!


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> well if bowtech is so great why the recall ,maybe you should check your vision mines fine


You have some real issues. You maybe need a therapist to talk to. I hope you realize how you look to all others on this site? :sad:


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## 1stQ2XLMAN (Oct 9, 2005)

Perfectionist said:


> Gee, your screen name has Q2XL right in the middle... :der: It doesn't take an aerospace engineer to figure this out. :chortle:
> 
> you made an assumption and u were wrong ,glad your not an aerospace engineer
> Check your facts. Find the the last 20 threads about Mathews, and show me how many Bowtech owners trashed their bows. And I don't mean banter between friends. I mean comments like yours... unprovoked and unwanted.
> ...


i really hope the pin/bandaid solution holds up , hate to see one of u get hurt


anyway im done with this thread ,so good luck to u guys


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> i really hope the pin/bandaid solution holds up , hate to see one of u get hurt
> 
> 
> anyway im done with this thread ,so good luck to u guys




Thank You...


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## Jhorne (Jul 15, 2003)

hunter_tlh said:


> You have some real issues. You maybe need a therapist to talk to. I hope you realize how you look to all others on this site? :sad:


What more would you expect from a 35 year old that reads Harry Potter books?:wink:


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

INGOZI said:


> I had ordered the Captain in MAX 4 asking my dealer to add that if there is any chance at all in getting the bow in 80# that I'll wait, no matter how long. I really hope that they will be available in the higher poundage as I really prefer shooting a heavy bow & arrow combination.
> 
> Anyone perhaps know if there is the slightest chance of getting them in 80#?
> 
> Hey Tax! Good to hear I'm not going to be the only guy crossing the weeks off my calendar!


Looks like someone is saying :banplease


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

1stQ2XLMAN said:


> well then request my removal from the site , whats your reason gonna be ,i didnt agree with u .
> 
> i hope knowone cares what bow i shoot ,im not promoting my bow or even talking about it , and i never said my bow was better than yours



Looks like someone is saying :banplease


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## haole boy (Jul 10, 2005)

anyone got any chrono speeds yet on any 09's ?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

btguymt said:


> Brace Height	Draw Weights	Draw Length	A2A	IBO	MSR
> Admiral	7" 40,50,60,70	24-30 31 1/16"	320	$829
> Captain	7" 50,60,70 24-30 34"	323	$849
> Sentinel	7" 40,50,60,70	24.5-30.5 36.75	325	$849
> ...


Love to try the Ice Man and the Brigadier but man, those prices...I don't know if the market place is gonna support 'em. I assume a target finish is going to push that price up $150 or so...


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## E.J. (Aug 7, 2008)

carlosii said:


> Love to try the Ice Man and the Brigadier but man, those prices...I don't know if the market place is gonna support 'em. I assume a target finish is going to push that price up $150 or so...


Remember...these are just MSR prices. I wouldn't buy a bow from here...but they have the Iceman for 769.00
http://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/diamond-2009-iceman-compound-p-9964.html


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## so1ocam (Aug 24, 2007)

Jhorne said:


> What more would you expect from a 35 year old that reads Harry Potter books?:wink:


I'm 34 and I think the Harry Potter movies are pretty good.


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## hunter_tlh (Nov 22, 2005)

Ummm... I like the Harry Potter movies too.. But I aint reading the books... LOL.... That would take up way to much shooting time...


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## Travis VanDaele (Sep 30, 2002)

*mass weights*

Any Idea of the mass weight of the 09 Bowtechs?


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

RamRock said:


> WEEL, i got curious and went and shot the admiral and swat, *the BC on the admiral said 319 and the swat said 311 both at 71sum pounds /350gr*
> the admiral is compairable to the general but felt slightly more harsh to pull/solid wall and nice feel,,the swat was smoother than an alle,,it seems that there a tad on the slow side to me, but that may be to the new rotating draw mods, and i was told by the salesman that they were laminated limbs,,i also found it intiresting that the admiral had no clips on axel tips, instead they had small hex head screw that threaded into the inner part of axels im guessing,, fit and finish overall looked quite nice,better design than the last center-pivot,s and the swat will be popular for all the allegiance fans..



Were they both at the same draw length?
I have heard the Admiral has alot of potential to be a fast shooter. :tongue:


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

walks with a gi said:


> I'm trying to decide between the Admiral or the Captain. I REALLY like short bows but the 34 inch Captain is close to my '05 Allegiance that is a tack driver in terms of accuracy in my hands. I'm wondering if there is any difference in the risers between these two new bows or if the only difference is the limb angle for the longer bow. The Captain is a bit faster on paper. I ended up giving my '06 Tribute to my brother this summer and I really liked that bow, shot my best ever buck and tom turkey with that little bow.
> 
> I'm thinking I need a 31 inch replacement:tongue:


I think there is a difference, the risers look different in the pictures.


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

E.J. said:


> Remember...these are just MSR prices. I wouldn't buy a bow from here...but they have the Iceman for 769.00
> http://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/diamond-2009-iceman-compound-p-9964.html


Heck they have them all listed...


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

Travis VanDaele said:


> Any Idea of the mass weight of the 09 Bowtechs?



The mass weights will be right around 4 lbs. Maybe a hair under.


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

RamRock said:


> WEEL, i got curious and went and shot the admiral and swat, the BC on the admiral said 319 and the swat said 311 both at 71sum pounds /350gr
> the admiral is compairable to the general but felt slightly more harsh to pull/solid wall and nice feel,,the swat was smoother than an alle,,it seems that there a tad on the slow side to me, but that may be to the new rotating draw mods, and i was told by the salesman that they were laminated limbs,,i also found it intiresting that the admiral had no clips on axel tips, instead they had small hex head screw that threaded into the inner part of axels im guessing,, fit and finish overall looked quite nice,better design than the last center-pivot,s and the swat will be popular for all the allegiance fans..


Was that at 29"? If that is, that means the Admiral will be in the upper 320's. (edit :I didn't see your post mdewitt71)


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

I didn't see any 101's in the line up. That means the resale price will drop. Can I get a goverment bail out on the bow.


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

RamRock said:


> WEEL, i got curious and went and shot the admiral and swat, the BC on the admiral said 319 and the swat said 311 both at 71sum pounds /350gr
> the admiral is compairable to the general but felt slightly more harsh to pull/solid wall and nice feel,,the swat was smoother than an alle,,it seems that there a tad on the slow side to me, but that may be to the new rotating draw mods, and i was told by the salesman that they were laminated limbs,,i also found it intiresting that the admiral had no clips on axel tips, instead they had small hex head screw that threaded into the inner part of axels im guessing,, fit and finish overall looked quite nice,better design than the last center-pivot,s and the swat will be popular for all the allegiance fans..


I was wondering the same thing. What was the draw length on the the Admiral you shot?


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## Shooters Edge (Feb 6, 2005)

A center pivot bow in the Diamond line! LOL I bet BowTech dealers with a box store around the corner will love that!


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

Shooters Edge said:


> A center pivot bow in the Diamond line! LOL I bet BowTech dealers with a box store around the corner will love that!


The Diamond is a single cam not a Binary, so I don't think it will affect them.


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## poole (Jan 10, 2008)

vmir said:


> Does anyone no if they fixed there limb situation.. I am looking for a new 09. The admiral looks really sweet. Shot my buddies general and like it a lot. Just worried about the limbs


I spoke with Crackers a few weeks ago and he informed me that they changed something with the limb making process about a month ago. I was speaking to him about the limb problems on my 82nd, so Im not sure if he was referring to the limbs for all the bows, or just the 82nd.


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## Kelsnore (Feb 7, 2005)

Shooters Edge said:


> A center pivot bow in the Diamond line! LOL I bet BowTech dealers with a box store around the corner will love that!


You hit the nail on the head!


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## Dubs (Nov 20, 2006)

Leave it to bowtech... Cutting edge as it comes. Should their new slogan be "Catch us if you can"? Is that taken already? :wink: In comparison the other bow companies are looking pretty lazy


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## switchbackjack (Mar 21, 2006)

I wonder if the string supressor will screw into my gaurdian


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## J.C. (Aug 20, 2004)

for Matt/PA or Poorguy. how does the new string suppressor attach? is there a 5/16 bushing there so it can be removed and v-bars or some other set-up be installed?


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## Matt / PA (Feb 21, 2003)

J.C. said:


> for Matt/PA or Poorguy. how does the new string suppressor attach? is there a 5/16 bushing there so it can be removed and v-bars or some other set-up be installed?


This question came up a couple days ago and I couldn't remember exactly from the one I was playing with at the factory so I asked Pat (Bowtech Shooter) and if I remember correctly he said that it DOES NOT have a bushing in the back.
The supressor is seated into the riser and held in place by set screws on the off side of the riser.

I don't know if it's like that on all the new bows to be honest.........I wouldn't think anyone would be putting v-bars on a 31" ATA hunting bow but I could see where it would be a concern for the Sentinel on up.


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

Dubs said:


> In comparison the other bow companies are looking pretty lazy


Ya think! 
The same old boring thing... Again and again and again and again :sleepy2: and again and again and a:bored: and again and :idea1: A NEW CAM

That little idea guy works to well there! :chortle:


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## soonerboy (Sep 6, 2004)

My old eyes can't tell from the pictures. Do any of the bows have a cam like my 08 Commander where the cables feed off both sides if the cam?


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## Gary73 (Jan 11, 2008)

I feel like a traitor :wink:. I was hoping for a 340fps Diamond but it never came so I ordered the new Pearson zx-4 with the new cams rated at 361fps IBO. I still might order a Iceman simply to see what there like. Bowtech has made some nice new bows I look forward to hearing how good they are.


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## J.C. (Aug 20, 2004)

soonerboy said:


> My old eyes can't tell from the pictures. Do any of the bows have a cam like my 08 Commander where the cables feed off both sides if the cam?


all of the Binary center pivots plus the Brigadier have cables coming off both sides.


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## NJDiverDan (Jan 26, 2005)

I am let down as well. No bows over a 31" draw and only one of those. In 2005 bowtech had the constitution available stock up to a 33" draw which is what I need. Looks like no new bow for me next year....

-dan


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## Litzsru11 (Sep 10, 2007)

*why there need to be diamond/bowtech?*

Why do they need to have two seperate brand names for the company! One would be nice!


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## elkkat (Jan 4, 2007)

Litzsru11 said:


> Why do they need to have two seperate brand names for the company! One would be nice!


Probably the same reason there is Mission, AR, Rytera, Reflex... should I go on?


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## Perfectionist (Mar 2, 2004)

elkkat said:


> Probably the same reason there is Mission, AR, Rytera, Reflex... should I go on?


Don't forget about PSE / Browning.


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

Don't put all of your eggs in one basket??

The Bowtech line up is the binary cam version. 

Diamond is sporting the single cam.


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## DoeSlayer75 (Feb 14, 2006)

4 Admirals have hit the shelves at Sportsmans Warehouse in Ankeny IA yesterday. If they are already at that location they are surely all over the country. 
Can't wait to try one out, I hear it is very reminiscent of the General in draw but fast and still dead in the hand.


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## weave (Oct 17, 2002)

Cannot wait to see these in person


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## helix33 (Jul 10, 2006)

My Admiral came today and the BC says 71 29 320fps.:wink: That would make the IBO 330 at 30"!! At that I guarantee with a tune this bow will shoot at least 325fps at 29" which is smokin. I was also told that the cams on the admiral were one of the most effeciant on the market and that it didn't lose much speed with heavier arrow weights. The draw on this bow is smoooooth with a very solid back wall and it is undoubtably the quitest most shock free bow on the market. There's no doubt that the admiral has raised the bar. It is much faster and much nicer overall than the previous center pivot bows. Bowtech has knocked the ball out of the park with this bow.


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## 500 fps (Oct 13, 2002)

WOW! That is what I suspected, but it's good to see confirmation. 

320 at 29"!!!!!


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## possum boy (Sep 7, 2008)

saw the website. sniper goes to 32" dl not 30" which is good for long draw people. also, admirals and 1 S.W.A.T. at my shop. S.W.A.T draws real nice!:wink: Admiral's sweet lookin too:wink:


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## Supershark (Dec 14, 2004)

well for the first time I got to shoot the admiral and captain last night. WOW. I cannot believe how quite these bows are. The adjustability is awesome! I am not dead set on it yet. I love the solid feel of a a draw specific module, and really have not gotten to play with either of these very much.

THEY ARE quiet


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