# 2ND 3rd axis sight leveling



## taker

I fined that the riser is not level on some bows. Put a level on it. I shim the mounting bracket to get it back.


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## adam Guggisberg

redman said:


> What kind of jig do you use to set the 2nd and 3rd axis on a target sight
> I use a medicine stone jig with bow mounted i it to set my 2-3 axis .
> IF i just mount sight on jig with out bow i get a different setting .
> How come the two are not the same? Is it because the bow riser
> is not square ?
> Thanks for the info


It has to do with the line of the string in realtion to the riser. On most bows, the string does not run perfectly paralell to the riser, but rather there is a slight offset. Your 2nd axis will read differently when comparing a bow mounted on the medicine stone with a string level & just the sight.

3rd Axis needs to be set at full draw rather than at rest... however you can set it while in the medicine stone in a manner that properly compensates for the cable torque at full draw.

3rd axis setting should be configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw. When you draw your bowe, the pressure from the limbs shifts to the cables & then to the cable guard which creates a natural amount of torque on the riser. This in turn leverages your sight, making an static 3rd axis leveling incorrect.

For a right handed archer, the bow torques counter clockwise at full draw. 3rd axis would need to be rotated counter clockwise to compenstate. To what degree you compensate will take some testing...

When I set mine on the stone, I set it dso that when tilting the sight up, the level moves to the "1/2 bubble left" positon, & opposite when pointing the sight downward..

-Adam


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## redman

Thank you adam for the great info. The bow i am useing is a hoyt ultra elite
3000 limbs . I will give that a try This is super great info .


What do you think about using the sure-loc leveling device that mounts on sight iand check at full draw ?


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## viperarcher

adam Guggisberg said:


> It has to do with the line of the string in realtion to the riser. On most bows, the string does not run perfectly paralell to the riser, but rather there is a slight offset. Your 2nd axis will read differently when comparing a bow mounted on the medicine stone with a string level & just the sight.
> 
> 3rd Axis needs to be set at full draw rather than at rest... however you can set it while in the medicine stone in a manner that properly compensates for the cable torque at full draw.
> 
> 3rd axis setting should be configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw. When you draw your bowe, the pressure from the limbs shifts to the cables & then to the cable guard which creates a natural amount of torque on the riser. This in turn leverages your sight, making an static 3rd axis leveling incorrect.
> 
> For a right handed archer, the bow torques counter clockwise at full draw. 3rd axis would need to be rotated counter clockwise to compenstate. To what degree you compensate will take some testing...
> 
> When I set mine on the stone, I set it dso that when tilting the sight up, the level moves to the "1/2 bubble left" positon, & opposite when pointing the sight downward..
> 
> -Adam


+1 very good ! alot do not understand 2nd and 3rd axis.


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## adam Guggisberg

adam Guggisberg said:


> It has to do with the line of the string in realtion to the riser. On most bows, the string does not run perfectly paralell to the riser, but rather there is a slight offset. Your 2nd axis will read differently when comparing a bow mounted on the medicine stone with a string level & just the sight.
> 
> 3rd Axis needs to be set at full draw rather than at rest... however you can set it while in the medicine stone in a manner that properly compensates for the cable torque at full draw.
> 
> 3rd axis setting should be configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw. When you draw your bowe, the pressure from the limbs shifts to the cables & then to the cable guard which creates a natural amount of torque on the riser. This in turn leverages your sight, making an static 3rd axis leveling incorrect.
> 
> For a right handed archer, the bow torques counter clockwise at full draw. 3rd axis would need to be rotated counter clockwise to compenstate. To what degree you compensate will take some testing...
> 
> When I set mine on the stone, I set it dso that when tilting the sight up, the level moves to the "1/2 bubble left" positon, & opposite when pointing the sight downward..
> 
> -Adam


I had a dislexic moment here.. 

For a right handed archer, the bow torques counter clockwise at full draw. 3rd axis would need to be rotated *clockwise* to compenstate

-Adam


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## redman

Does that mean i need to set up sight with bubble to the right with sight 
up hill left sight down hill . thanks


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## adam Guggisberg

redman said:


> Does that mean i need to set up sight with bubble to the right with sight
> up hill left sight down hill . thanks


No opposite.

when tilting the sight up, the level moves to the "1/2 bubble left" positon, & opposite when pointing the sight downward..

You may not need a whole 1/2 Bubble... Maybe just a slight favor in either direction to start with... 

Do some uphill downhill shooting to test this. If you level the bow & still hit left when shooting downhill, you need to compensate more...

*This is if you are doing this in a STATIC positon on a Medicine Stone, with the SIGHT mounted to the stone...*

-Adam


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## redman

Adam thanks for info


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## Unk Bond

adam Guggisberg said:


> It has to do with the line of the string in realtion to the riser. On most bows, the string does not run perfectly paralell to the riser, but rather there is a slight offset. Your 2nd axis will read differently when comparing a bow mounted on the medicine stone with a string level & just the sight.
> 
> 3rd Axis needs to be set at full draw rather than at rest... however you can set it while in the medicine stone in a manner that properly compensates for the cable torque at full draw.
> 
> 3rd axis setting should be configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw. When you draw your bowe, the pressure from the limbs shifts to the cables & then to the cable guard which creates a natural amount of torque on the riser. This in turn leverages your sight, making an static 3rd axis leveling incorrect.
> 
> For a right handed archer, the bow torques counter clockwise at full draw. 3rd axis would need to be rotated counter clockwise to compenstate. To what degree you compensate will take some testing...
> 
> When I set mine on the stone, I set it dso that when tilting the sight up, the level moves to the "1/2 bubble left" positon, & opposite when pointing the sight downward..
> 
> -Adam


--------------------

Quote = 3rd axis setting should be configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw


configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw


in line with the path of the arrow at full draw. Wouldn't that be the 4th axis.


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## Mr. X-Ring

*Confusing*

I currently use the Brite Site Leveling Device. I put the site in the jig and level the bar with a 6 inch level. I put the scope on and level the bubble in the straight ahead position. After that, I tilt the site upwards =/- 30 degrees and level out there. I go back to center and then to 30 degrees down. If all of my positions have the bubble level, I am set.

I have never had any issues with this approach and am wondering how this method compares to what others are discussing.

I had a hard time following the earlier post.


Thanks!


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## adam Guggisberg

Unk Bond said:


> --------------------
> 
> Quote = 3rd axis setting should be configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw
> 
> 
> configured to place the scope & level in line with the path of the arrow at full draw
> 
> 
> in line with the path of the arrow at full draw. Wouldn't that be the 4th axis.


It's 4th Axis if you are trying to make the SIGHT BAR in line with the path of the arrow... 

-Adam


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## adam Guggisberg

Mr. X-Ring said:


> I currently use the Brite Site Leveling Device. I put the site in the jig and level the bar with a 6 inch level. I put the scope on and level the bubble in the straight ahead position. After that, I tilt the site upwards =/- 30 degrees and level out there. I go back to center and then to 30 degrees down. If all of my positions have the bubble level, I am set.
> 
> I have never had any issues with this approach and am wondering how this method compares to what others are discussing.
> 
> I had a hard time following the earlier post.
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Your method levels the 3rd axis in a static position & does not account for torque at full draw. Your method would be setting the 3rd axis SQUARE to the sight bar. If you are shooting a bow that does not use a cable slide such as a shoot thru system, then your method would work fine.

-Adam


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## redman

I think the sure-loc leveling devie that mounts on sight and string will 
help with 3 axis at full draw. What do you think about the tek-tech sight mount used to get sight bar
in perfect alignment with arrow.


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## adam Guggisberg

redman said:


> I think the sure-loc leveling devie that mounts on sight and string will
> help with 3 axis at full draw. What do you think about the tek-tech sight mount used to get sight bar
> in perfect alignment with arrow.


I have both.

The Sur Loc leveling device does a pretty good job, but I have found that it will still lie a little...

The Tech Tech 4th axis is HEAAAAVVVVYYY.. I have one that I had a machinist skeletonize for me, but I still do not use it. let me know if you want it, as it is for sale.... it's about 2 ounces lighter than the factory piece.

-Adam


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## redman

That is why i doint use the one i have it is to heavy .Thanks for a lot of great info.


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## foundationsaver

http://www.archerytech.com/


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## Hana Pa'a

I want to know how Jesse does it. With the scores he shot last year I'd hang it upside down and look in a mirror if he told me that is what he did.

Anyone know?


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## brtesite

Hana Pa'a said:


> I want to know how Jesse does it. With the scores he shot last year I'd hang it upside down and look in a mirror if he told me that is what he did.
> 
> Anyone know?



I just sent him off one of these to take to the tournaments . All of the bench mounted systems are kind of hard to take on the plane. 
i've never had any one out shoot the accuracy of my leveler that I know of


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## adam Guggisberg

brtesite said:


> I just sent him off one of these to take to the tournaments . All of the bench mounted systems are kind of hard to take on the plane.
> i've never had any one out shoot the accuracy of my leveler that I know of


Can you tell me how you account for lateral torque at full draw due to the cable slide & other factors with this device? I understand the concept of squaring the sight to the sight bar as a starting point, but in my experience this does not provide an accurate applies 3rd axis configuration at full draw.

-Adam


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## brtesite

adam Guggisberg said:


> Can you tell me how you account for lateral torque at full draw due to the cable slide & other factors with this device? I understand the concept of squaring the sight to the sight bar as a starting point, but in my experience this does not provide an accurate applies 3rd axis configuration at full draw.
> 
> -Adam


i don't worry about it ,as I said beforeI don't belive you can out shoot the accuracy of this system. 
every one is so worried about it that they are hanging the results on the repeatability of a level vial that costs $.03. these are not machinists level vials
In my use to be work, i have cailibrated many systems, & trust me this is no rocket science. How ever, we all have what we belive in & will continue to do what we do.


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## adam Guggisberg

brtesite said:


> i don't worry about it ,as I said beforeI don't belive you can out shoot the accuracy of this system.
> every one is so worried about it that they are hanging the results on the repeatability of a level vial that costs $.03. these are not machinists level vials
> In my use to be work, i have cailibrated many systems, & trust me this is no rocket science. How ever, we all have what we belive in & will continue to do what we do.


Ok, let me restate the question so it is more inline with specifically what I'm looking for...

How do you insure that the LEVEL is square with the path of the arrow when pointing uphill or downhill?

I use a medicine stone which is similar to your device to square the level to the sight bar, but this will yield false readings & misses left & right when shooting uphill & down hill.

-Adam


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## brtesite

Adam, do you know what we are doing here.
This is like an audiophile showing how clean his sounds look like on an ocsiloscope & he wears a hearing aid. 
No mater how the sight is set up, the big guns do not hit the X in the center of the dot all the time. 
i don't want to get in to a pissin match with you so you do it your way & a bunch of people will do it my way.
good luck. :smile:


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## adam Guggisberg

brtesite said:


> Adam, do you know what we are doing here.
> This is like an audiophile showing how clean his sounds look like on an ocsiloscope & he wears a hearing aid.
> No mater how the sight is set up, the big guns do not hit the X in the center of the dot all the time.
> i don't want to get in to a pissin match with you so you do it your way & a bunch of people will do it my way.
> good luck. :smile:


ha ha ha . I'm certainly not trying to get into a pissin match with you. I was simply asking a question about your device. The question was rhetorical however I was hoping to get some value add from your answer. 

-Adam


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## Hana Pa'a

brtesite said:


> I just sent him off one of these to take to the tournaments . All of the bench mounted systems are kind of hard to take on the plane.
> i've never had any one out shoot the accuracy of my leveler that I know of
> 
> 
> Thanks Mike,
> I have one of your leveling devices and use it with my sights.


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## JepiArcher

*Thinking Too much*

Great questions and comments. 
Forgive me and my brain for simplifying this so much. I don't see a problem with a so-called 4th axis. Aren't we already accounting for any torgue by adjusting our rests and sight windage? I have a leveling device very similar to the one pictured above, and I simply use it to account for the $.03 bubble within the sight. The bow torque imparted upon the arrow, during the shot, will happen whether or not the shot is level, uphill, or downhill. 
I don't in any way think that I am a bow technician, so I will gladly accept your responses.
As you can tell by my post count; I am new to Archery Talk. I don't know if this site was in existence when I was shooting 10 years ago, but archery never left my blood and I'm happy to be back.


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## adam Guggisberg

I am going to create a video in the next couple of weeks demonstrating my statements about the torque implied at full draw Vs. at rest due to the cable slide. I think things will become a bit more clear for everyone as to exactly what it is I am trying to point out here & how it effects your level for uphill & downhill shots.

-Adam


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## deadx

brtesite said:


> I just sent him off one of these to take to the tournaments . All of the bench mounted systems are kind of hard to take on the plane.
> i've never had any one out shoot the accuracy of my leveler that I know of


Mike, I have used one of your sight levelers for years( I bought it at one of the old Indy Shootout tournaments years ago). I also have a Medicine Stone that I use to level my sights while attached to the bow. There is NO difference in impact in uphill and downhill shooting using either device and your device is a lot handier to take on road trips. Last year at Redding I ran into a problem with my 3rd axis getting knocked out of whack big time by someone kicking the front of my scope housing. If I had had your device with me to reset my 3rd axis I would have finished a lot better than I did. I WILL have it with me this year. The Medicine Stone is a fine piece of work but it doesn`t do anything that your sight leveler doesn`t. Been wanting to tell you that for a while so here it is.


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## brtesite

deadx said:


> Mike, I have used one of your sight levelers for years( I bought it at one of the old Indy Shootout tournaments years ago). I also have a Medicine Stone that I use to level my sights while attached to the bow. There is NO difference in impact in uphill and downhill shooting using either device and your device is a lot handier to take on road trips. Last year at Redding I ran into a problem with my 3rd axis getting knocked out of whack big time by someone kicking the front of my scope housing. If I had had your device with me to reset my 3rd axis I would have finished a lot better than I did. I WILL have it with me this year. The Medicine Stone is a fine piece of work but it doesn`t do anything that your sight leveler doesn`t. Been wanting to tell you that for a while so here it is.


Thanks for the plug, how ever, I was at Redding, & I had a sight leveler there. you should have come over to the table & got fixed up.


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## Guest

I bought one of Mikes levelers back in 1990 before I went to Austrailia for the IFAA Worlds, It is the best, easiest system to use. As for off setting torque as mentioned you have allready done this with your sight to the point that you would have to put a very large amount of twist at full draw to offset the 3rd axis to the point to blame misses on it, I have tested this before and found that the twist would need to be forced.

If you insist on incorporating your twist into your level you can simply set it with your sight out and shoot at an angle that legitimatly would need a 3rd axis to be correct (30+deg) at distance, then move your sight in alot and repeat then adjust your bubble if there is a difference.


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## deadx

brtesite said:


> Thanks for the plug, how ever, I was at Redding, & I had a sight leveler there. you should have come over to the table & got fixed up.


:doh::doh::doh:


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## Bob_Looney

Adam we understand the lateral torque at full draw -vs- the arrow track at brace.

My arrow tip moves real close to 1/2 from brace to full draw. @ 30 that's 1 degree.

It isn't enough difference to worry about. You can set your 3rd at full draw but the reality is, other than Jesse, nobody out there is good enough see that 1 degree.


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## adam Guggisberg

Bob_Looney said:


> Adam we understand the lateral torque at full draw -vs- the arrow track at brace.
> 
> My arrow tip moves real close to 1/2 from brace to full draw. @ 30 that's 1 degree.
> 
> It isn't enough difference to worry about. You can set your 3rd at full draw but the reality is, other than Jesse, nobody out there is good enough see that 1 degree.


Your arrow tip may only move 1/2" but how far does your sight move? It takes less than 1 degree to make your level read false by a 1/2 bubble or more when aiming uphill or downhill as little as 10-12 degrees.

It's not so much related to the arrow track as it is the track of the riser at full draw Vs at rest...

Think about this. If your level is square to your sight bar & therefore square to the riser at rest... What happens when you draw the bow? The level remains square to the riser & the sight bar, however the riser & sight bar are no longer square to the arrow path. What effect does that have on the feedback that your level provides when aiming uphill or downhill?

If you need to tilt your bow left when aiming downhill to get your level to read square, then you likely have an issue. If not, then you are golden. :shade:

It takes very little tweaking on that .03 cent level to provide a false reading that can cost you a lot of points.

Just something for folks to be aware of. Certainly not trying to beat a dead horse here but I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about exactly what 3rd axis is & how it effects your shooting.


*TEST: *Hang a plumb bob from the ceiling of your stairwell. Aim straight level at the string & level your bow.. Slowly slide your sight pin down the string until you are aiming at a steep angle & watch your bubble. What did it do?

If it stays level & you are not canting the bow left or right, then you have nothing to worry about.  I would be curious to hear some feedback from this test from a few shooters.

-Adam


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## brtesite

adam Guggisberg said:


> Your arrow tip may only move 1/2" but how far does your sight move? It takes less than 1 degree to make your level read false by a 1/2 bubble or more when aiming uphill or downhill as little as 10-12 degrees.
> 
> It's not so much related to the arrow track as it is the track of the riser at full draw Vs at rest...
> 
> Think about this. If your level is square to your sight bar & therefore square to the riser at rest... What happens when you draw the bow? The level remains square to the riser & the sight bar, however the riser & sight bar are no longer square to the arrow path. What effect does that have on the feedback that your level provides when aiming uphill or downhill?
> 
> If you need to tilt your bow left when aiming downhill to get your level to read square, then you likely have an issue. If not, then you are golden. :shade:
> 
> It takes very little tweaking on that .03 cent level to provide a false reading that can cost you a lot of points.
> 
> Just something for folks to be aware of. Certainly not trying to beat a dead horse here but I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about exactly what 3rd axis is & how it effects your shooting.
> 
> 
> *TEST: *Hang a plumb bob from the ceiling of your stairwell. Aim straight level at the string & level your bow.. Slowly slide your sight pin down the string until you are aiming at a steep angle & watch your bubble. What did it do?
> 
> If it stays level & you are not canting the bow left or right, then you have nothing to worry about.  I would be curious to hear some feedback from this test from a few shooters.
> 
> -Adam


ADAM, yes , not beating a dead horse, where is it written that the sight bar is square with the riser. when I level a sight on my leveler, i put it on the bow, & shoot it. end of story. Actually , I kick the vertical bar over, because I shoot with a cant. as long as I hold the bubble in the middle , I'm down the slot. i really rotated the bow around the sight so that gives me the same reference to the earth. Works for me.


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## Bob_Looney

When at rest, the arrow is pointing off to the right. As you draw the bow, the string moves left to right, towards the cable guard rod, bringing the arrow into line with the stabilizer. Setting your 3rd axis to the bow or the sight mount will essentially line it up with the arrow when at full draw.

I don't think anybody sets the 3rd to be 90 deg to the "arrow" when it's at rest, most would have no way to ensure the bow rotated in that "plane". 

Something else to ponder, the string moves from right to left as it travels forward to release the arrow (cable guard) . The arrow doesn't leave the string till it reaches brace. Setting the 3rd axis 90 deg to the arrow when at full draw is not setting it parallel to the arrows travel.


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## ghostofsherwood

i have something like these hi priced contraptions:teeth:.and i use it to set up all my spot-hoggs hoggit.the problem iam haveing is that if iam shooting on a field course with some wiked terrain like Austin,Waco,Washington or out of my treestand my bubble is off by 1/2 left or right with my vertical wire in my sight window.then when i go and align my bubble to the center my bow is canted and i get a bad shot.
last night i went and hung a weighted string in my back yard.drew back and aligned my sights and bubble at a level stans.everything was fine,but when i aimed down i was 1/2 a bubble off and then when i went up my bubble was off an1/2 the other way.
so after that i went to the spot-hogg web site and sure enough even spot-hogg says to set your 2nd and 3rd axes at full draw. 
so Thank you Adam and spot-hogg for waking me up:shade:,now i need help in setting up me axes.:mg:


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## Moparmatty

Adam. When you say "bow torques" at full draw are you talking about canting the bow or the riser actually tweaking/bending?


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## adam Guggisberg

Moparmatty said:


> Adam. When you say "bow torques" at full draw are you talking about canting the bow or the riser actually tweaking/bending?


It is a basic mechanical principle of any bow that uses a cable slide. As you draw the bow, the energy from the limbs gets transfered to the cables. SInce the cables are tethered to the cable slide which is offset, the pressure from the cables pulling on the cable slide creates a lateral movement of the riser as your draw the bow. This has nothing to do with hand torque or any other factor.

-Adam


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## adam Guggisberg

ghostofsherwood said:


> i have something like these hi priced contraptions:teeth:.and i use it to set up all my spot-hoggs hoggit.the problem iam haveing is that if iam shooting on a field course with some wiked terrain like Austin,Waco,Washington or out of my treestand my bubble is off by 1/2 left or right with my vertical wire in my sight window.then when i go and align my bubble to the center my bow is canted and i get a bad shot.
> last night i went and hung a weighted string in my back yard.drew back and aligned my sights and bubble at a level stans.everything was fine,but when i aimed down i was 1/2 a bubble off and then when i went up my bubble was off an1/2 the other way.
> so after that i went to the spot-hogg web site and sure enough even spot-hogg says to set your 2nd and 3rd axes at full draw.
> so Thank you Adam and spot-hogg for waking me up:shade:,now i need help in setting up me axes.:mg:


Great David, thanks for testing!

Your bubble was likely 1/2 bubble off to the left when aiming down...

To fix this, when looking from above your bow, you will need to adjust your 3rd axis CLOCKWISE until the problem is resolved. Your pin housing wil no longer be square to your sight bar, but your level will read true. 

-Adam


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## TN ARCHER

Adam,
Does the bow torque still affect the sight level the same when the bow uses a roller guard?

I would think so because my pin is to the left of my arrow at rest. Then when I am at full draw the pin is obviously in line with the arrow because the arrow hits it's mark.

I shot a 3D course yesterday that had a lot of up and down hill shots. The first one was down hill and slopping down toward the left, I hit way left. The guy I was shooting with said my bow was canted down hill bad when I shot. I told him I held the bubble level. The next target that we had to shoot like this I held a half a bubble to the left and hit dead in line.

I do not have a sight leveler per say, I use a simple method.


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## adam Guggisberg

TN ARCHER said:


> Adam,
> Does the bow torque still affect the sight level the same when the bow uses a roller guard?
> 
> I would think so because my pin is to the left of my arrow at rest. Then when I am at full draw the pin is obviously in line with the arrow because the arrow hits it's mark.
> 
> I shot a 3D course yesterday that had a lot of up and down hill shots. The first one was down hill and slopping down toward the left, I hit way left. The guy I was shooting with said my bow was canted down hill bad when I shot. I told him I held the bubble level. The next target that we had to shoot like this I held a half a bubble to the left and hit dead in line.
> 
> I do not have a sight leveler per say, I use a simple method.



A roller guard actually creates slightly more lateral torque on the riser than a standard cable slide. The cables are pre-loaded more with that configuration. 

-Adam


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## TN ARCHER

adam Guggisberg said:


> A roller guard actually creates slightly more lateral torque on the riser than a standard cable slide. The cables are pre-loaded more with that configuration.
> 
> -Adam


Thank you.


Loks like I have some worrk to do.


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## starr06

any videos on how to learn this on the internet


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## BarneySlayer

I noticed the same thing.

My single cam's string isn't parallel with the riser. Since I wanted my peep sight directly over the arrow when I shot, i leveled the sight relative to the string, not the riser. As a result, my bubble isn't square to the riser, nor do I want it to be.

I think that the method of simply setting the bubble square to the riser might be adequate, particularly as a starting point, and fine if you're doing fairly level shooting, particularly at a fixed distance. However, think about it. If there wasn't a variation of rotation caused by holding torque (even in an open hand) or something caused by whatever mechanism (have you noticed that on most bows, the cable isn't actually in line with the center of the handle), we wouldn't need 3rd axis adjustments. They'd just set the bubble level square to the riser mount, and it would stay that way.

In my SureLoc instructions, they say to simply shoot up and down, and adjust the bubble until you actually group center. Ultimately, that's the best way, just like setting the pins on your sight. However, not everybody has 60 yards on steep hills to calibrate their third axis.

The Spot Hogg method makes good sense, but I worry that the bubble is moving when I look to see if the pins line up with the line, and vice versa. I used that method on my SureLoc, and it seemed to verify everything was fine.

However, on my Spot Hogg, the pins change elevation by rotating, so it begs the question, WHICH pins. Oh, that wire? On mine, that wire isn't actually perpendicular to the level, so that wouldn't be the right reference anyway. Luckily, the bubble level is square to the riser, as is the string (or rather parallel), so I'm ok. I haven't noticed a deviation at moderate uphill 50 yard shots, so I won't worry about it.

What I think would be really cool is to make a variation of that device that holds the bow itself, at full draw, with a variable point holding pressure point of sorts so that you could get the same degree of torque using your best hand holding technique. You could verify where this point should be by using one of those EZ laser alignment tools set to reference a drawn back arrow, and then set the holding point to get the same position in the alignment device. It'd be a much bigger device though, and hardly handy to have in the field, unless you had a booth or something..

Could have a mini and max version...


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