# Shooting uphill



## [email protected] (May 10, 2012)

I'm asking for advice on shooting uphill. 
I live in Maryland and don't have anywhere to practice. 

I shot London this year and on the power lines, I shot 6 down on the uphill side
And 8 up on the downhill side. 

I do practice with uneven footing but, like I said there are absolutely no hills
on the Eastern Shore. 

Assuming my draw length is very close, at least on flat ground, what tricks do you use
For uphill shots?

Do you shift your hips forward or back?
Do you put most of your weight on the uphill foot
Or more weight on your back foot?

I'm enjoying this forum and appreciate the quality advice. 
Thanks for reading. 
Craig


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

Get a sight that has a level.you need to set your 1st 2nd & 3rd axis.this pretty much means leveling your bow at full draw.its not as complicated as it sounds.there is some good howto vids on youtube


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I was told shooting up hill was not natural 

What were your poor or weak shots, high, low, left or right?


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

I suck at uphill shots 

Good shooter explained to me that when shooting up hill you end up with a relatively longer draw. His solution was to take a deeper grip on the release, and to get the shot off quicker.

Seems to help


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## notz (Mar 4, 2013)

on up hill shots i just aim a little lower (even up hill your arrow is traveling in an arc and leaves the bow rising


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

London doesn't have steep shots- half yard cut at most, with angled footing... Shorten dl a touch and practice shooting hills, that's all there is to it. Set the target up higher and shoot up, get higher than the target and shoot low.


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## [email protected] (May 10, 2012)

Thank you. I will try taking a deeper grip on my release.


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## jetlynk (Jun 8, 2013)

I think its illegal here if not we're warned against it since you don't know whats on the other side on the hill.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

You know, rules have changed about footing. Pretty sure ASA or IBO, no kicking the dirt to level out, no objects used and so on. Can't remember when, but I did read of it. John Dudley had a article about footing, finding a balance.

I don't use a bent knee. I stand erect, spread my feet until I feel balanced, lock my knees. I am totally flexible at the waist. From the waist up I have the "T" form. It has to be really steep or slippery before I change my stance. Easy to try. Use a chair where the seat is 12 to as high as 17" high, keep spreading feet until you find a comfort zone (awkward at first). Granted the lead or back footing is different than on sloping ground, but gives a idea of my stance. My draw length does not feel effected whatsoever. 

Just this last ASA State Championship; Down hill slope at the stake, good 12 to 14" down hill. Target, 33 yard 3D deer and up hill slightly. I felt near as natural as standing on flat ground - no stress at all. Shot dead on for a 10 and center punched the center X ring. The other two in my group shot a 8 and 5. They used a straight leg and bent knee stance.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

jetlynk said:


> I think its illegal here if not we're warned against it since you don't know whats on the other side on the hill.


???????????????????


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## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Thank you. I will try taking a deeper grip on my release.


I wouldn't be playing with your grip too much. You get it right & keep it there while maintaining your anchor point. (From my experience, trying to adjust a grip can present more problems than it will solve. ~ Unless you're just "that good?") If your draw is too long, I can see that being more of an issue uphill though. Bend back at the waist and your draw shouldn't change much!?! ~ And of course your posts are welcome here. And so are mine although I shoot to hunt..... Shooting is shooting, right?
:smile:


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

If it's under 15deg, maybe 20deg dl is gonna play more importance than anything else....


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## clifflowe (Sep 29, 2007)

Hey Sonny, I've never tried that. Just thinking about it, it seems as if your belt would then be parallel to the ground and you would only have to bend at the waist just a little to acquire target. Am I understanding this correctly.Thanks Cliff


SonnyThomas said:


> You know, rules have changed about footing. Pretty sure ASA or IBO, no kicking the dirt to level out, no objects used and so on. Can't remember when, but I did read of it. John Dudley had a article about footing, finding a balance.
> 
> I don't use a bent knee. I stand erect, spread my feet until I feel balanced, lock my knees. I am totally flexible at the waist. From the waist up I have the "T" form. It has to be really steep or slippery before I change my stance. Easy to try. Use a chair where the seat is 12 to as high as 17" high, keep spreading feet until you find a comfort zone (awkward at first). Granted the lead or back footing is different than on sloping ground, but gives a idea of my stance. My draw length does not feel effected whatsoever.
> 
> Just this last ASA State Championship; Down hill slope at the stake, good 12 to 14" down hill. Target, 33 yard 3D deer and up hill slightly. I felt near as natural as standing on flat ground - no stress at all. Shot dead on for a 10 and center punched the center X ring. The other two in my group shot a 8 and 5. They used a straight leg and bent knee stance.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

For Field I prefer about 1/4" shorter bow DL (I sad bow DL and not my DL),
so either down or uphill....I draw the pin right on the ring without bending in shoulders....
this just me 54 (getting rigid in trunk but occasionally I still chase girls around samba  )
so bow arm leads the pin towards the ring and the release elbow stretch out the total DL inline with the shaft (either pointing to mr diablo or the other fella from NA), 
with anchor on nose/peep.....
so, imagine the triangle with two points stretched out between release and your peep and the third leg is floating somewhere down/up hill whatever it takes.....
I have figured this the form and DL combination what allows the stretch with angles, no formula you need to find the DL what fits you....
not all :munky2: have same arms/legs length you have to find it yourself....even without targets you can imagine and start improvising for the next shot...

2nd....I have tried drawing the bow horizontally first and next step bringing pin to the ring....kinda OK for short time but didn't feel it soo much exciting...
3rd ....I have tried drawing the bow twisting around shoulders (minus maybe 100-120 degree something like shooting behind your back but without moving your feet) and then bent ing in shoulders up or down (may look like a pretzel  but that's more for younger folks....


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

clifflowe said:


> Hey Sonny, I've never tried that. Just thinking about it, it seems as if your belt would then be parallel to the ground and you would only have to bend at the waist just a little to acquire target. Am I understanding this correctly.Thanks Cliff


Chit! I don't wear a belt! Yes, belt/hips parallel to the surface/slope. We are supposed to bend at the waist.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

A lot of people don't even think of practicing at home on a staircase. Just hang a bag target at the top or bottom of a flight of stairs and shoot. Or even get a no-shoot release and just practice aiming. Not a lot of distance, but you can get an idea of how to learn to hold steady on sharp up and down angles.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

Stash said:


> ...A lot of people don't even think of practicing at home on a staircase. ....


a good one :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

bigHUN said:


> a good one :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


Until "SHE" catches you doing that


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

1. Get a brick and lay it on the ground and put your front foot on it and shoot, it will feel horrible but after a while you will get better. Then put it under your back foot and do the same, this is a easy way in your backyard to get some training on feeling bad and having poor footing.

2. for up hill and down hill you have to learn how to bend at the waste and keep your front arm straight out from your shoulder just like you are shooting on flat ground, the moment you keep your body straight up and down and simply drop your arm to shoot down hill you are screwed.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> 1. Get a brick and lay it on the ground and put your front foot on it and shoot, it will feel horrible but after a while you will get better. Then put it under your back foot and do the same, this is a easy way in your backyard to get some training on feeling bad and having poor footing.
> 
> 2. for up hill and down hill you have to *learn how to bend at the waist and keep your front arm straight out from your shoulder just like you are shooting on flat ground*, the moment you keep your body straight up and down and simply drop your arm to shoot down hill you are screwed.


Yes. Where people get into trouble is bending the back just below the shoulder blades, which alters draw alignment (guess that's the proper term). Again, easy to try to see the difference and you don't even need a bow, just hold like you would at full draw.


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## DssBB (Feb 21, 2010)

On up hill shots, I have had some difficulty especially with shooting a hinge and getting the release to break consistently. I tried numerous methods and found that opening my stance a little more then I do on level ground allows my draw length to appear slightly shorter and my consistency and accuracy greatly improved.


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## EmersonL (Oct 27, 2009)

Do not- I repeat- do NOT alter your grip. Ever! That is a huge no-no. You will introduce way more issues doing that than is worth it. Opening your stance effectively lengthens your draw length not shortens it (but whatever works for you). My suggestion is to close up the stance a little bit and add extra pressure to the front end. Bad uphill shots are usually the result of too weak of a shot. Drive that front end forward and you will hold much better. Draw level to the target bending at the waist as others have said. Keep your balance center. The weight distribution between your feet shouldn't change drastically (some shots you don't have much choice but do your best to stay balanced). And I will say again, DON'T CHANGE YOUR GRIP!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I forgot, I have more than one firing engine for my hinges and some are very subtle for perfect level ground shooting and some produce a huge amount of rotation, When I shoot a up or down hill shot the first draw I take I use my competition firing engine and it is either going to fire or it isn't. If it doesn't then I use my other one and it gives me the confidence that I am going to have a smooth release and not have to suffer or really force things.


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

and how many 560's has that brought?

don't change how you shoot release when you're shooting up or down hill- there isn't a point to it. set the bow up correctly and shoot ONE shot; thats all it takes.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

how many of you shoot hinge or any other BT for Field with lot of angles?
just asking.....because I have seen people hassling with it...
they were forcing hinge for all because its popular, but not necessary means will work for all, or.... for everyone....
me in example I can not shot anything else but cascades....tried many and somehow I always going back to it...


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## N7709K (Dec 17, 2008)

I shoot my ht pro- I got other releases and buttons but they are just for fun or as spares. No issues up to 45deg up or down with a hinge.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bigHUN said:


> how many of you shoot hinge or any other BT for Field with lot of angles?
> just asking.....because I have seen people hassling with it...
> they were forcing hinge for all because its popular, but not necessary means will work for all, or.... for everyone....
> me in example I can not shot anything else but cascades....tried many and somehow I always going back to it...


Field? Angles? I use back tension with my ST360 and carry my Stan hinge Blackjack or Deuce for the easier targets. You should see some of the 3D courses. I've shot and still shoot. Stairways down and up hill, hay rope to ease you down and pull yourself back up. Either that or you slide down and crawl up. Bushnell 3D, more up hill shots than I want, but I shot there. New 3D range at Hudson, Jamie Young started up. Many of the targets are on the down side, but decent footing. 

Pekin has one lane on their Field course that make you work - 80 yard walk up, off camber hill going down. Yeah, toes up hill, heels down hill, and all you going down hill to the target. Target is slightly up hill. 60, 50 and 40 the target is uphill and the same footing as the 80 yard. 

Caterpillar Archery Club, long gone, had their Tough Man Hunter event right before deer season. Walking brown bear target 75 yards down hill and those who shot it for 25 yards got the 10 ring....


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I shoot my Stan Blackjack hinge for all of my field tournaments. The worst hill I have encountered was a 42 degree uphill 65 yarder that really took me to school. Took a couple of arrows to learn how to shoot the thing, after that, it was just another dot... I was brought up old school without cut charts or inclinometers to rely on, I had to learn to read the terrain and learn my equipment just as many of you do judging yardage in a 3D shoot. 

I shoot with a local pro shooter once on a fairly difficult course (it is nicknamed "the cardiac") who was using an inclinometer and I was within a couple of clicks of his readings for the entire shoot. Could I have shot a slightly better score using the technology? Perhaps so, but I would also not be out of the running if I suddenly developed a dead battery...


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

the whole beauty of back tension, is that it can and should be isolated from the other movements your body makes, or the position your body is in, while shooting. it is done with a set of muscles that will work the same way no matter what position your body is in because those muscles have nothing to do with making your body be in any particular position, so the musculature activity of back tension stays the same all the time. you have to work a little to train those muscles to work individualy outside what the rest of your body is doing, but they can and will do that. 
once your back tension is isolated, the position your body is in,will make no difference to the shot you're taking.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

ron w said:


> the whole beauty of back tension, is that it can and should be isolated from the other movements your body makes, or the position your body is in, while shooting. it is done with a set of muscles that will work the same way no matter what position your body is in because those muscles have nothing to do with making your body be in any particular position, so the musculature activity of back tension stays the same all the time. you have to work a little to train those muscles to work individualy outside what the rest of your body is doing, but they can and will do that.
> once your back tension is isolated, the position your body is in,will make no difference to the shot you're taking.


True this!! *IF* your DL is properly set for shooting a field round, then you read the terrain and make your shot. There are no changes in execution, grip pressure, wrist/release angle, etc., that have to be made for elevation changes.....Actively shoot your shot and your arrow will hit the mark.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> Field? Angles? I use back tension with my ST360 and carry my Stan hinge Blackjack or Deuce for the easier targets. You should see some of the 3D courses. I've shot and still shoot. Stairways down and up hill, hay rope to ease you down and pull yourself back up. Either that or you slide down and crawl up. Bushnell 3D, more up hill shots than I want, but I shot there. New 3D range at Hudson, Jamie Young started up. Many of the targets are on the down side, but decent footing.
> 
> Pekin has one lane on their Field course that make you work - 80 yard walk up, off camber hill going down. Yeah, toes up hill, heels down hill, and all you going down hill to the target. Target is slightly up hill. 60, 50 and 40 the target is uphill and the same footing as the 80 yard.
> 
> Caterpillar Archery Club, long gone, had their Tough Man Hunter event right before deer season. Walking brown bear target 75 yards down hill and those who shot it for 25 yards got the 10 ring....


you soo lucky :tongue: :set1_applaud:
me @ YCB had some really nice angels, but nobody else was shooting there, they wanted to close the Field......3d have 4 big loops and the trad folks wanted a dedicated space as well...
In order me to save the Field I asked the board to give me tto re-arrange.... I had to drag all the hay bail targets out to more flat, with my two sons....I called for but nobody else show up at the work party in a 450 member club :zip:...big 3DDD shooters............
anyway, I could find some nice tricky shots with shade tunnels and bright corners, but not much angles for now....just got tired dragging thing around for two weeks even my boys gave up on me....need a chainsaw and I will put some long steep angles back to the game


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I haven't shot an arrow that counted, with anything other than a hinge, in the last 40 years.


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I have shot on inclines most of my life. If you want to practice uphill shots, then go to Redding. The advice about setting the 3rd axis, taking yardage off for the angle of the hill, and bending at the waist is all good advice. One thing to add though, when shooting uphill, place your dot into the bottom of the spot. For downhill place your dot in the upper part of the spot.

If you hit where you aim, you will still hit the spot and can aim for center next shot. But most people including myselt tends to shoot a little higher on uphill shots during follow through and the opposite on downhill shots. You can save a point on your first shot by following my advice.


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## EmersonL (Oct 27, 2009)

huteson2us2 said:


> I have shot on inclines most of my life. If you want to practice uphill shots, then go to Redding. The advice about setting the 3rd axis, taking yardage off for the angle of the hill, and bending at the waist is all good advice. One thing to add though, when shooting uphill, place your dot into the bottom of the spot. For downhill place your dot in the upper part of the spot.
> 
> If you hit where you aim, you will still hit the spot and can aim for center next shot. But most people including myselt tends to shoot a little higher on uphill shots during follow through and the opposite on downhill shots. You can save a point on your first shot by following my advice.


Wait, why do you think people hit high on uphill shots?


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

It's the body's internal gyroscope trying to compensate for the elevation, just like it does when shooting along the side of a hill. Those who do not tip their bow into the hill while drawing will shoot off...


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Based on FITA not NFAA but the shooting diagrams still apply. Page 7 starts the uphill/downhill section.

http://www.archery.ie/field.pdf


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

I use the method of spreading my feet until I find a stable base and try to make my form as close to normal as I can, I do like the idea of practicing up and down a staircase!


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

people hit high on uphill shots, because they don't bend at the waist and use their arm muscles to lift the bow. this results in a severe upward reaction on the follow through that raises the trajectory above the line of sight and the arrow flies high.
it is the reason we are supposed to bend at the waist when shooting up or down . it keeps the dynamics of the upper body and the alignment of your sight picture consistent with that of shooting level.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

For me bending at the waist is the must and make sure you draw length on bow is set right . I never change grip for up hill or down 
doint over think it make a good strong shot


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

hdracer said:


> Based on FITA not NFAA but the shooting diagrams still apply. Page 7 starts the uphill/downhill section.
> http://www.archery.ie/field.pdf


Very sound advice in that little pamphlet. I referred to it quite a lot when I was just learning to shoot NFAA field. :wink:


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## Mike2787 (Jul 16, 2002)

montigre said:


> I shoot my Stan Blackjack hinge for all of my field tournaments. The worst hill I have encountered was a 42 degree uphill 65 yarder that really took me to school. Took a couple of arrows to learn how to shoot the thing, after that, it was just another dot... I was brought up old school without cut charts or inclinometers to rely on, I had to learn to read the terrain and learn my equipment just as many of you do judging yardage in a 3D shoot.


I'd love to try that hill. Where did you encounter that one?


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

These are from a tourney 2 years ago. 47yd uphill target, shooting across a valley. The shooting line was inclined down the hill and the crosswind was a consistent 15-20mph. Hope this helps.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Mike2787 said:


> I'd love to try that hill. Where did you encounter that one?


I'm sure you already have, Mike. That one was at Augusta Archers and was shot during the Mids a few years back (the animal round, IIRC). One of the older guys who helped build the range there heard me laughing about the whooping that target gave me and he proudly stated its angle of approach--42 degrees up. He stated that they did not use that range very often anymore as most of their shoots are now 3D and are shot on the more level ranges they have.


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

In Maryland , look up Harford Bowmen in the Susquehanna State Park. It has an uphill 80 yard shot that proves arrows shooting against gravity shoot low. Provided the archer bends at the hips as not to affect draw. The grade is very walkable. All the yardages are marked correctly. Younger archers who don't understand this course will avoid it , to keep from dropping down to a lower class.

http://www.archersadvantage.com/TipS...UpDownHill.htm

This is a good read explaining the facts on shooting grade.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Tim Gillingham is over seas shooting some International event and posted this. Now how would you like to shoot this Bunny Round?


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

http://www.archersadvantage.com/TipSheets/UpDownHill.htm

This is of course based upon the idea that the shooter is shooting a compound. With such there is a "wall" or at least a "valley" in the let off that the shooter is always able to feel in their draw, so draw length remains unchanged, regardless of footing issues. 

For a person shooting single string, no clicker, other issues do come in to play. 

You do want your footing as secure as possible. You do want to bend at the waist in order minimize draw length changes. When shooting uphill, if the angle is steep enough that the bow arm must be elevated beyond what can accomplished by bending at the waist, draw length will become shorter. 

So, in general if we're a good shooter, and shooting a compound, change NOTHING in your form/shot, shoot the target as if it closer for both uphill and downhill. If we're shooting stickbow, change NOTHING in your form or shot. Shoot the target as if its closer for both uphill and downhill, UNTIL you reach the point that you have elevated the bow arm and effectively shortened you draw length. At that point begin shooting the target as if it is farther away. 

At what point to make the transition pretty much depends upon 3 things:

1) YOU! the shooter. What works for you and the particular bow in hand that day

2) Distance. The father away the target the more pronounced the effect.

3) The severity of the incline. The steeper the shot, the more pronounced the effect.

If a stickbow shooter how do you deal with it?

Practice it and learn it for how it works for you There are no short cuts to becoming good at this thing we call Archery.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

SonnyThomas said:


> Tim Gillingham is over seas shooting some International event and posted this. Now how would you like to shoot this Bunny Round?


The Cilsanws Challenge in Wales. Team match U.S. vs Europe. U.S. won 59 to 41. Some incredible incline shots over distance. Here's an 80 yard 28 degrees 65cm target.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Praeger said:


> The Cilsanws Challenge in Wales. Team match U.S. vs Europe. U.S. won 59 to 41. Some incredible incline shots over distance. Here's an 80 yard 28 degrees 65cm target.
> View attachment 2041246


If this is a 28 degree incline, then the guy at Augusta Archers was pulling my leg with his proclamation of a 42 degree incline at that range.....guess I was a pretty gullible newb back then....lol!! :embara:


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

montigre said:


> If this is a 28 degree incline, then the guy at Augusta Archers was pulling my leg with his proclamation of a 42 degree incline at that range.....guess I was a pretty gullible newb back then....lol!! :embara:


Here are shooters at the stake of target #1 from Cilsanws on Friday. It is 88 yards at 27 degrees. That's a 9.5 yard cut.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Praeger said:


> Here are shooters at the stake of target #1 from Cilsanws on Friday. It is 88 yards at 27 degrees. That's a 9.5 yard cut.
> View attachment 2041400


I would love to shoot a course like that someday--really puts all of your skills to the test!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Plenty of degree wheels on the internet. The left hand shooter, 27 degrees as stated. Tim's pic, right at 47 degrees.

Average degree of height of projectile for maximum distance, 37 1/2 degrees.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

EmersonL said:


> Wait, why do you think people hit high on uphill shots?


I bet many don't factor the cut on an uphill shot - probably seems counter intuitive. Gravity doesn't care uphill or down, same cut.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

Here's the king of the hill from Cilsanws. Target #3. 38 yards, 48 degrees. Keep in mind both archers have 10 degree drop main stabs. Arrows are "true" incline.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

that's what I checked, 48 degrees. About as steep as steep gets. Mmmm? Who's going to go score and pull arrows? 
Did that three times at Pekin a couple months ago. Going down was okay, but coming back up...Mercy.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

alot of people shoot a hinge ,but when i shoot a hinge for field,i have one hinge set quick or for less tension i use up hill and the other hinge that`s set for my normal use, that i use most of the time, both hinges the exact same kind ,just mark different.that helps me alot for uphill shots.my letoff is about 55% with spirals too.some others may have better solutions but this works for me.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

SonnyThomas said:


> that's what I checked, 48 degrees. About as steep as steep gets. Mmmm? Who's going to go score and pull arrows?
> Did that three times at Pekin a couple months ago. Going down was okay, but coming back up...Mercy.


The team captains pulled arrows. Probably worked harder than the archers.


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