# 2011 'Insteada Nationals'



## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

We are getting close to setting a date for the 2011 'Insteada' Field shoot. Hoping to make this one even bigger, since we will have more time to advertise 
Watch for details.


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## capemaybowman (Aug 13, 2008)

Glad to hear keep us up to date.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Don't I get some kind of royalty for naming rights??


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

OK, I will send you a penny What is your paypal account Ha,Ha


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Could get "dicey" if the "Insteada Nationals" date is the same as the Yankton Events for 2011.....Political correctness and all....hahahaha


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

That makes it the perfect time to have it....think they'd get the point if more folks showed up for the east coast version than the real thing? Nope, me neither. 



field14 said:


> Could get "dicey" if the "Insteada Nationals" date is the same as the Yankton Events for 2011.....Political correctness and all....hahahaha


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

We only intended from the beginning to have a shoot for those who can not afford to travel to those BIGGER events.


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

We are waiting for our local league to firm up some dates then we can go ahead with our planning. I wouldn't mind having another 20-30 shooters this year.
Everyone who attended last year seemed happy!?


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Field14 is telling you something that you might want to pay close attention too.


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## RedWonder (Jan 10, 2003)

field14 said:


> Could get "dicey" if the "Insteada Nationals" date is the same as the Yankton Events for 2011.....Political correctness and all....hahahaha





archer_nm said:


> Field14 is telling you something that you might want to pay close attention too.


Its just a local archery club in PA holding a shoot for fellow archers to attend what is the harm in that?


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## blondstar (Aug 15, 2006)

We will be there again we had a great time!! Oh and you can call it anything you want!!


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

How about the 'Amish County Nationals' 
It was only meant for folks who do not shoot the big events and us who are not that good


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the Mechanicsburg club became the permanent home of the Nationals. Was the shoot last year 3 days with a Field, Hunter, and Animal? For a short National shoot it would be great to have 28 Field, 14 Hunter/ 14 Animal, and 28 Field. I hope
this shoot takes off. Is it held at the club where the Nationals were held in 2009? If things don't go well for the new direction the NFAA is taking I wonder if some kind of National Championship
at Mechanicsburg every year would get some traction. Is it written anywhere that only the NFAA can have any kind of Field Championship?


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Jbird said:


> It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the Mechanicsburg club became the permanent home of the Nationals. Was the shoot last year 3 days with a Field, Hunter, and Animal? For a short National shoot it would be great to have 28 Field, 14 Hunter/ 14 Animal, and 28 Field. I hope
> this shoot takes off. Is it held at the club where the Nationals were held in 2009? If things don't go well for the new direction the NFAA is taking I wonder if some kind of National Championship
> at Mechanicsburg every year would get some traction. Is it written anywhere that only the NFAA can have any kind of Field Championship?


NAH...>I think the permanent site should be at Darrington. No, wait, Why not Bonner Springs in Kansas? Oh, wait a permanent site in Midland, Michigan? Oh, no, let's see, how about one near Fresno California. No, I got it make a permanent site at REDDING...that would give them TWO permanent shoots a year....

You have been OPPOSED to "permanent sites", yet all of a sudden, cuz it is CLOSE for YOU....now it should be a permanent site at Mechanicsburg, cuz you "like" it.

WHat happened to the "rotation" from West, East, Central, that was so popular in your opinions until just a couple of years ago when a "windy, and potentially HOT site was taken to Yankton.

You worry about hot, humid, and WET, and in the wind... shoulda been around Aurora in the 1970's, when several times we had all of it in the week, changed from day to day, hour to hour..... Or Jay Peak Vermont? That would be an ideal PERMANENT site too....

You can well see, you wouldn't get much agreement on a PERMANENT site no matter which one you picked. Can't get 49 directors to agree on much of anything...and you can bet each director would be pushing for a PERMANENT site somewhere in their section/state, too.....if one was available somewhere within their state/section.
Heck, with the low attendance, Waverly, Iowa could just about handle it....and I'm telling you what, that 5-star course is a dandy, too. Oh, wait.....there are some really steep shots, and one range is pretty much out in the sun....that wouldn't work.....Plus it is hot and humid in Iowa in late July....

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

Field you are so full of it you squish when you walk. NO I'm not in favor of a permanent home for the Nationals. I have already stated that the three site rotation is preferable.
And if you think I am favoring Mechanicsburg because it is closer to me then obviously you don't know how to read a map. You don't just run on down to Mechanicsburg from
Mena, Arkansas. Let me say this real slow so you can get it. I suggest Mechanicsburg for two reasons; the facilities are fantastic (you would know if you ever got off your bicycle and made a Nationals)? When was the last year you shot a Nationals? We have been shooting Field Archery for 12 years and have made 5 Nationals starting in 2002. I
don't recall seeing you at any of them. The second reason I favor Mechanicsburg is because it has the highest potential for attendence. As nice as Darrington is the remoteness will always handicap attendence. Yankton will never produce the numbers for 
reasons previously stated by people who have been there. Now follow me closely; I 
DON'T LIKE THE DIRECTION THAT BRUCE IS TAKING THE NFAA and all of your go along to
get along political correctness is not going to make me like it any better. I may be wrong but I think there ar LOT of field shooters who agree with me. The difference is that I have gotten far enough along in life to not give a rip who I piss off if it means saving
the best game ever shot. I understand that you can stay home or ride your bicycle instead of shooting an NAA Outdoors just as easy as you can stay home or ride your bicycle instead of shooting the NFAA Nationals but it matters to some of us which game we play. So.............please excuse me for not putting a lot of stock in your comments
until I actually see you show up at an NFAA Nationals and shoot. Is it just me, or is your arm chair quarterbacking getting a little old?
Jbird


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

RatherBArchery said:


> We are waiting for our local league to firm up some dates then we can go ahead with our planning. I wouldn't mind having another 20-30 shooters this year.
> Everyone who attended last year seemed happy!?



*I applaud you for your efforts and Bless you .....and if possible I will be there.....

I have had enough of the current "Empire" known as "YankMe//OZ", the Wizard and his Flying Monkeys......YES, I know it was the Wicked Witch who had the monkeys....but I'm rewriting the story a little here....... 
The problem is I don't see a Happy Ever After Ending for the NFAA and their "Lifer" Member's future.......:sad:*
.


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

Jbird said:


> Field you are so full of it you squish when you walk. NO I'm not in favor of a permanent home for the Nationals. I have already stated that the three site rotation is preferable.
> And if you think I am favoring Mechanicsburg because it is closer to me then obviously you don't know how to read a map. You don't just run on down to Mechanicsburg from
> Mena, Arkansas. Let me say this real slow so you can get it. I suggest Mechanicsburg for two reasons; the facilities are fantastic (you would know if you ever got off your bicycle and made a Nationals)? When was the last year you shot a Nationals? We have been shooting Field Archery for 12 years and have made 5 Nationals starting in 2002. I
> don't recall seeing you at any of them. The second reason I favor Mechanicsburg is because it has the highest potential for attendence. As nice as Darrington is the remoteness will always handicap attendence. Yankton will never produce the numbers for
> ...


Yea, what he said. And that goes double for me. Bird I like the way you think.


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## Ron Meadows (Aug 17, 2005)

make it 3 then.....where's that clapping emoticon...and he pees and moans about people peeing and moaning....he's the king of it..



nock tune said:


> Yea, what he said. And that goes double for me. Bird I like the way you think.


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## TargetWoman (Jul 28, 2007)

Make that 4.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Jbird said:


> Field you are so full of it you squish when you walk. NO I'm not in favor of a permanent home for the Nationals. I have already stated that the three site rotation is preferable.
> And if you think I am favoring Mechanicsburg because it is closer to me then obviously you don't know how to read a map. You don't just run on down to Mechanicsburg from
> Mena, Arkansas. Let me say this real slow so you can get it. I suggest Mechanicsburg for two reasons; the facilities are fantastic (you would know if you ever got off your bicycle and made a Nationals)? When was the last year you shot a Nationals? We have been shooting Field Archery for 12 years and have made 5 Nationals starting in 2002. I
> don't recall seeing you at any of them. The second reason I favor Mechanicsburg is because it has the highest potential for attendence. As nice as Darrington is the remoteness will always handicap attendence. Yankton will never produce the numbers for
> ...


We may as well agree to disagree...
However, Jay, I started field shooting in 1968....so in your short 12 years of shooting you aren't likely going to catch up, he...even with electronics.
I'm not overly crazy about SOME of the goings on either...but I've seen enough of the changes in this organization since the release debacle of 1970-72 started the changes craze, to realize that fighting this particular change isn't going to work either.

Just as in the '70's, when I was a "newbie" and wouldn't accept the two biggest changes ever to occur in the field shooting game...releases/compounds, and the new NFAA scoring and target face...peeing and moaning about the 2011 "get together" of the NAA and the NFAA with support from Easton and probably other sponsors as well...isn't going to get you anywhere.

You chose to shoot 5 out of 12 National events since you've been a member, while I choose not to...for various reasons, and among them is all the peeing and moaning going on about the location, the "time" (and I am known to complain about longer than 5 hours being "acceptable"), and especially the expenses involved in it.
You haven't a clue to the family situation I face on a daily basis, nor the personal "issues" I face with regard to static outdoor activities with loads of standing around in one spot.
About squishing when I walk....I don't stand still long enough to sweat enough to build up the goo...there isn't any grass growing under my feet in the summer time any more, hahahaha.
I choose to ride the bicycle because of the clientele, the enjoyment of it, and the total LACK of peeing and moaning...the type of rides I go on are not RACES, and are non-competitive...so the only peeing and moaning is about the wind, hills, or sometimes rougher roads, and we laugh about it more than we cry. It sure isn't about "cheating", or taking too long, or the wrong location, etc. I certainly won't be HOME riding the bicycle at the end of July anyways...Wisconsin and the Michigan UP isn't quite Central Illinois, ha. That committment was made months ago and isn't likely for me to change it for an archery tournament.

Now, since you are so prone to resisting the changes, and also about the "direction" the NFAA is taking...I do believe that there is a means available to you to help get right on in there and HELP to RE-DIRECT the path of the organization. RUN FOR OFFICE, either in your State, your Section, or...better yet...the head-shed of the organization.

Myself, even if I'm not likely to show this year for the Yankton affair....the two TARGET organizations have indeed, after all these years of going separate ways....come together to TRY TO DO SOMETHING about the "State of Target archery" in this country. That is way more and most all of the Old farts and "newbies" have done over the course of the past 25-30 years.

Give this NAA/NFAA situation a chance....and once again, the choices are OURS...I"ve made my choice to support the idea and let 'em give it a whirl.
If I hadn't already committed myself to the mentioned cycling tour....I may well have shown up for this NFAA/NAA affair in Yankton...because I LIKE the idea of shooting MORE THAN ONE tournament in the same week! I think it is terrific. I think it beats the heck out of a 3/5 format AND it beats the 5-day ONE tournament affair as well.

IF I was going to go, I'd do the entire balywix, because I think the NAA has merit as well and supporting BOTH target organizations is probably the thing to be doing these days.

So, now that we are done and agreeing to disagree about the 2011 situation that neither you nor I are going to be able to change...How's about getting on with realizing the inevitable...either we support this, or we take one more step in extinguishing the NFAA flame. It is either they/we try go figure out how to give the entire target thing a shot in the arm...or we LOSE the Field portion all together, sooner or later.

I sure don't deny you your opinion and being there to SHOOT has NOTHING to do with it...I pay my dues just like you do; therefore I have a right to MY opinion and options, the same as you, even if you don't like my "arm-chairing". You've paid 12 years of dues, I've paid 44 years worth, and probably have run/organized more tournaments, leagues, and associated events than you have competed in. I know for a fact that I've competed in more events over the course of the past 44 years than you have. I've listened to the flak, given the flak, made some changes, been victim of changes...so I've more than earned my right to "arm-chair" if I so choose. hahaha.

Yeah, I anticipate flak from ArcheryWoman, too....but she knows me...and we pretty much agree to disagree on things where we differ, grab our LEFTY bows and shoot some more arrows. Neither of us worse for the wear, haha. I haven't stirred the pot in quite some time, or when I have tried, people have ignored it...obviously not so in this case, ha.

This horse is beat to death...on with life....and maybe Mechaniscburg will hold the "Insteada Nationals"...and maybe they won't. However, I do recall that it used to be either a "written rule" (probably long since changed), or an UNWRITTEN rule...that an affiliated club did NOT host events up against STATE, SECTIONAL, or NATIONAL championships of the same organization? Out of respect, or whatever...it used to NOT BE DONE. In fact, in some states, the clubs that hosted events against those affairs used to be strongly chastised for it. Times have indeed changed.....
field14 (Tom D.)


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

Very Good post Field14, you called it like it is, I have a question on the Local Club that wants to hold this shoot, Is it a member of the PA NFAA affilliated organization??


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

field14 said:


> We may as well agree to disagree...
> However, Jay, I started field shooting in 1968....so in your short 12 years of shooting you aren't likely going to catch up, he...even with electronics.
> I'm not overly crazy about SOME of the goings on either...but I've seen enough of the changes in this organization since the release debacle of 1970-72 started the changes craze, to realize that fighting this particular change isn't going to work either.
> 
> ...


Well that was as clear as mud!!!!


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## OneBowTie (Jun 14, 2002)

Interesting thread..... that the subject matter could have indeed gotten alot more interesting. 

First of all, I really hate to see two people like Jbird and Field14 take such opposite sides on something that has been denigrated for years...... that being FIELD ARCHERY. 

Field, now that you put your reply out there to Jbird.... you really have been around and involved for a very long time.... I for ONE do appreciate your passion and longevity in archery.... you have made me if nothing else, think long and hard about many things archery.....

However, 12 years, 2 years, 5 years.... it doesn't matter.... Jbird too has been very passionate about archery.... and he too with his passion and involvement have caused many archers to think and possibly act in a good direction for archery, just like you yourself have done.... archery needs passionate people....regardless of how long they have been..... just continue to be passionate about the sport/hobby and something good will come of it. 

I am glad that archery does indeed have organized archery organizations out there..... but the 4 main archery orgs out there now....NFAA, NAA, ASA, IBO have little to no interest in FIELD ARCHERY.

Having gotten involved at one time with the NFAA.... I learned a few things.... some of them were eye openers .....some were really eye openers..... but the one main thing I learned is that while many members may and do want some change....its a very hard organization to get much change done....simply because of the system they operate under....a roberts rule of order....secondly, its supposed to operate as 50 business or member orgs called states, which are designed to present and bring some sort of change..... but the facts of the matter are....some states really don't seem to know what they're state really wants, so they simply belly up to the bar with some other states and vote on something that they don't know what the ramifications really are. 

Then the other part of the equation is..... it was obvious to me, that even though there is a system or some sort of protocol that is supposed to be followed..... that system has been breaking down for years..... and it has been slowly being replaced by a system called the WAF..... and regardless what directors, states, membership may want ..... to some degree the system is run by the sole direction of the WAF and its hand picked cast. 

While the name may say NATIONAL FIELD ARCHERY ORGANIZATION..... the focus has left that venue of archery long ago. Not that anybody could/can blame a org. for not riding a dying horse right into the ground..... but good for the org. for having the vision to build upon other venues of archery that for whatever reasons became more popular and had greater increases in participation....

But purely as a outsider .... I myself think that if field archery is too survive and have any chance of running any kind of organized field archery competitions.... there needs to be another organization come into play and start hosting such events and get more then local participation levels..... I do not think that one or a single venue site is ever going to be good for FIELD ARCHERY.... and the supposed rotation also will not work for any kind of real participation, because it has not allowed for WEEKEND only participation, they want to force this weekday schedule upon the masses. 

I think that if whether it becomes another org.... or clubs getting support from the MOTHERSHIP as it stands now.....there needs to be MAJOR support from somebody (a new org, a branch of the current orgs) that can and will focus solely on FIELD ARCHERY....some kind of collective support and sponsorship level has to be offered and just half the effort that goes into the indoor shoots that are now the sole and main focus of the orgs now. 

Some collective cooperation from clubs/properties out there that do have the ability to host some MAJOR field archery shoots.... say if MECHANICSBURG, DARRINGTON, YANKTON, FLORIDA, NC, MD could get some financial support to advertise, offer up some incentive, and host 3 MAJOR Field Archery Shoots per year..... with one of those being the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP..... you just might see field archery able to sustain itself....but with the current systems in place..... I really see field archery evolving into what has is happening right now with it.

What is that....its the orgs now getting together as last ditch efforts to try to save money and combine they're losers(field archery) and lump them together and once again not only give little effort....but even less efforts then in the past to host such venues..... 

Unlike Field14, I don't see anything good coming from this half arsed attempt at doing something for the people.... I see it as they are giving it one last chance before they toss in the towel altogether on field archery....

archer_ nm..... I also happen to know that you know that the MOTHERSHIP needs people like yourself to help keep some law and order ..... and I appreciate you getting back involved and standing your ground and backing the MOTHERSHIP..... but I think that the MOTHERSHIP has gotten so deep with its focus on WAF and VEGAS....(simply because its the cash cow for the rest of the venues) that following the money trail will never lead them back to their roots and beginning-FIELD ARCHERY..... 

So while I do think like you that clubs need to support the MOTHERSHIP.... in the case of FIELD ARCHERY.... I think we need to go beyond clubs...we need the MOTHERSHIP to put in place a significant position and person, something like they did for that HUNTING CHAIRMAN....give them some actual leway and finances to build some sort of FIELD ARCHERY EXISTANCE again..... even if it means getting clubs that at the present time are not involved with the NFAA....sorta like they did with the TED NUGENT thing.... only perhaps this time, more meaningful results could come of it.....

I hope I'm wrong... but the combining of the two orgs on FIELD ARCHERY....looks to me like field archery now has ONE leg in the grave.......


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## nock tune (Jul 5, 2009)

One leg to the grave indeed!!!


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

one of the differences i see from the new to field, but not new to archery crowd is that they are used to going to am ASA/IBO event and they think thats how ALL venues are.....and they arent. reality seems to discourage many more than the course and score itself.

the 3D stuff is casual and a major social event. field and fita are faster paced and less of a social event. some dont like that either.

they hear 'dress code' and freak out. it's as common sense as the ASA's is. nobody complains about theirs, why is the fita dress code such an evil thing? i think it's more about finding an excuse in a venue that leaves VERY little room for excuses.

unless you go to the major events like vegas or indoor nats, outdoor field events arent as well publicized or attended. there are many who are at fault for that from the top office down to the local club. in both of our club shoots, our combined attendance for both of them comes to less than 20. a fun 3D shoot on the other hand, can draw as many as 60 on a sunday. not a very good indicator of venue popularity.


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## RedWonder (Jan 10, 2003)

field14 said:


> This horse is beat to death...on with life....and maybe Mechaniscburg will hold the "Insteada Nationals"...and maybe they won't. However, I do recall that it used to be either a "written rule" (probably long since changed), or an UNWRITTEN rule...that an affiliated club did NOT host events up against STATE, SECTIONAL, or NATIONAL championships of the same organization? Out of respect, or whatever...it used to NOT BE DONE. In fact, in some states, the clubs that hosted events against those affairs used to be strongly chastised for it. Times have indeed changed.....
> field14 (Tom D.)


How is the Lancaster Archery Club, the club holding this shoot for their 2nd time going against the Nationals? The Nationals are on a Monday-Wednesday shooting days this year, didn't we clear this up in the Yankton thread? Also the Lancaster shoot was just a Saturday and Sunday shoot, a typical weekend shoot.

Unfortunately the threads were deleted last year out of this forum from last years postings about this shoot and how this came about, this shoot is not meant to take away from Nationals. Maybe the name makes some people think this, but these are people posting that aren't even in the region of the shoot that think that something evil is in the works against the NFAA. There is nothing in that regards the club came up with the shoot after seeing the huge success that Mechanicsburg had with Nationals the previous year, to see if people close to the area who could not afford to travel to the other said shoot sites that they have a common place to go meet up with some of the people they met the previous year and enjoy shooting a field round.

And if my memory serves me right (bear with me I just turned 30), they won't have this shoot in 2012 because of the Mechanicsburg Nationals or maybe they'll move it to a different date? But regardless this shoot is about a club trying to have a shoot to help pay some of their bills and they are promoting field archery, it can always get some new blood involved that way and might actually get some people to join the NFAA as a result to shoot the Nationals in Mechanicsburg.

In my personal opinion the fact that it is being brought up about a local club endangering number of participants at a National Event I think is facetious. I mean come on if I the archer can afford to go to the national event or have the choice of the semi local event(no offense meant to Lancaster on this, just trying to make a point), I am going to the National Event because I want to compete to see how I stack up against the rest of the people there. But if I can't afford it like this year (ball and chain coming soon) well then I have to stay with the local shoot. I personally am not a fan of Yankton was out there 2 years ago could really careless about going back but if the funds were available this year, I would go because I like that I can shoot more than that shoot and do a NAA style shoot as well as I have never got to do that.

Also I do want to point out I am not a member of Lancaster Archery Club don't even live within 50miles of them, but have shot at their field courses and participated in their indoor shoots and they along with a number of other clubs in our area have a good group of people that are just trying to create an event for you to participate at their club. I felt the need to point this out after seeing the number of posts on here and really once again this is just a field archery shoot in PA being promoted in the Field Archery Forum.


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

I vote to move the Nationals back to Mahomet.


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## archerpap (Apr 24, 2006)

Yo...back to the thread. If you guys wanna ***** and complain about the NFAA and nationals, start a new thread about it. Maybe they will even sticky it for y'all. This is just a local shoot for people unable to attend or afford the cost of the other national shoots. It is in no way a national caliber shoot. It's a 2 day F/H round. Quit stealing threads to complain about things. You guys sound worse that 3 old ladies arguing over a pair of shoes at a Payless shoe store. Move on!!!

Maybe if you guys are nice, they'll let ya shoot a round while the LAS Classic is happening, considering it's only 20 minutes away. Just bring your long johns!!!


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## blondstar (Aug 15, 2006)

archerpap said:


> Yo...back to the thread. If you guys wanna ***** and complain about the NFAA and nationals, start a new thread about it. Maybe they will even sticky it for y'all. This is just a local shoot for people unable to attend or afford the cost of the other national shoots. It is in no way a national caliber shoot. It's a 2 day F/H round. Quit stealing threads to complain about things. You guys sound worse that 3 old ladies arguing over a pair of shoes at a Payless shoe store. Move on!!!
> 
> Maybe if you guys are nice, they'll let ya shoot a round while the LAS Classic is happening, considering it's only 20 minutes away. Just bring your long johns!!!


Thank you Pap
This has gotten out of hand.


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

Thanks RED and AP!! (Hope you guys can come back this year!!)
We are not trying to steal the NFAA's thunder!! Just trying to hold an event for those who can not, want not or are not willing to travel that far for the Yankton event. 
WE WILL NOT hold the event opposite MECHANICSBURG's shoot next year BUT, you may need a warm-up for it


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

RatheerBArchery you have exceeded your PM limit. Empty and you shall receive more.... :smile:


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## RatherBArchery (Oct 31, 2006)

Cleaned a couple out


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