# Anyone there with info on the protest in mens Pro?



## arrowblaster

Well..... fill us in, what did you hear?


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## Garceau

I heard its real ugly..... thats what I heard.

Second place tie is being protested.


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## A-Max

Trying to figure it out as well. Wonder what the protest is and what the ruling was.


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## Garceau

What i did hear was someone shot out of order. Not sure though its probably 4-5th hand knowledge so i cant bet a soda on it!

Not sure how the process all works with appeals/protest and all.

But hey its somewhat exciting?


Figured someone there has to know

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## swbuckmaster

Someone shoots out of order in a 3d shoot? Wow now that's drama!

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## A-Max

Didn't realize that there was a specific order that they had to shoot in.


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## SonnyThomas

Facebook has Chance B. tied for 2nd and nothing of a protest....


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## Garceau

Bowjunky stated a protest was filed, then ruled upon and now an appeal is underway on the ruling.......sounds like a mess to me.

Time will tell....hope all turns out good. There were some cryptic posts on FB about it so i started this thread. Figured someone there with first hand knowledge may know 

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## Daniel Boone

This is what bowjunky posted.

A protest was field today due to rules infraction in the PMR class . That protest was ruled on by the IBO at the event. An appeal was then filed on that ruling, so therefore the IBO has 10 days to rule on that appeal. Unfortunately we do not have any other details or facts involving the situation until the final ruling has been made by the IBO. 
CONGRATULATIONS once again to Joe Goza on a very very impressive FIRST place podium win.


Lots of different postings. I saw Dan Evans was being congradulated for 2nd place finish. 

Time someone will know.
DB


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## Daniel Boone

A-Max said:


> Didn't realize that there was a specific order that they had to shoot in.


Im pretty sure you got to shoot in order. One could have an advantage toward the end if he got to shoot last. Having an arrow in target helps on black target
DB


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## yardagegusser

not the first time some shot out of order some of them did it last year . so a top pro had some thing to shoot at and to hear the arrows for judging. cheating even in the pros


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## mikeg68

There's nothing in the rules that says you have to shoot in any kind of order. Only thing about an order is which shooting stake has to be shot first but nothing about the group's shooting order if they all shoot the same stake.


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## SonnyThomas

yardagegusser said:


> not the first time some shot out of order some of them did it last year . so a top pro had some thing to shoot at and to hear the arrows for judging. cheating even in the pros


Two fine archers, both good representatives of archery, and if you have to throw in a cheap shot.....


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## yardagegusser

i was not talking a bought them two at all . hear some pro have done that before. not Danny or chance


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## Garceau

mikeg68 said:


> There's nothing in the rules that says you have to shoot in any kind of order. Only thing about an order is which shooting stake has to be shot first but nothing about the group's shooting order if they all shoot the same stake.



Interesting.....no idea it wasn't in the rules. Seems should be no issue then if that was the case


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## carlosii

Daniel Boone said:


> This is what bowjunky posted.
> 
> A protest was field today due to rules infraction in the PMR class . That protest was ruled on by the IBO at the event. An appeal was then filed on that ruling, so therefore the IBO has 10 days to rule on that appeal. Unfortunately we do not have any other details or facts involving the situation until the final ruling has been made by the IBO.
> CONGRATULATIONS once again to Joe Goza on a very very impressive FIRST place podium win.
> 
> 
> Lots of different postings. I saw Dan Evans was being congradulated for 2nd place finish.
> 
> Time someone will know.
> DB


so, you file the protest with IBO and the IBO rules on it. Then you appeal and the appeal goes to IBO.

that reminds me of the guy who didn't like it when the doctor told him he was fat and needed to lose weight. So he say's "I want a second opinion." 

"Fine," said the doc, "Yer ugly too." :shade:


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## ibo73503

I don't know about this issue but if you watch almost any of the bowjunky videos you will see rule braking by the pros. I have seen numerous big name pros in the videos shoot, then stand and glass the target. Then have seen them look through the binoculars at the target THEN set or move their site. According to the rules both of these illegal. So I don't see how shooting out of order is that big of a deal. jmho


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## Daniel Boone

mikeg68 said:


> There's nothing in the rules that says you have to shoot in any kind of order. Only thing about an order is which shooting stake has to be shot first but nothing about the group's shooting order if they all shoot the same stake.


I believe this has been an issue before(protested) and yes you cant shoot and give an advantage to your buddy by throwing a arrow up first.
Rules need to be followed, IBO needs to do the right thing and enforce rules.

DB


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## mikeg68

Daniel Boone said:


> I believe this has been an issue before(protested) and yes you cant shoot and give an advantage to your buddy by throwing a arrow up first.
> Rules need to be followed, IBO needs to do the right thing and enforce rules.
> 
> DB


I guess you have a different rule book than the one IBO has on their web site. There is no rule about that to be enforced.


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## Garceau

Just talked to my friend that shoots semi pro......said he knew of no rule regarding a rotation. But says this has fallen under sportsmanship issues.

Again....all i can go off of is other peoples info as im sitting on my couch....lol

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## Outback Man

ibo73503 said:


> Then have seen them look through the binoculars at the target THEN set or move their site


I don't think that's illegal...I think the rule says you can't look thru your binocs and "re-adjust" your sight...so technically you can glass and then set your sight. But if you glass again after initially setting your sight then you can't make any sight adjustments. Not 100% on that, but it was my take on it last time everyone had their panties in a bunch of the BJ videos and the pro's breaking the rules.

Will be interested to see if this issue is something of substance or something more along the line of sour grapes...


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## johncraddock445

Little update.... here's what happened... Mccarthy let down 3 times then another archer offered to go ahead and shoot to let him relax.... so the complaint was based upon shooting out of order...

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## CatFan

Thought it was Danny Evans not Danny McCarthy?


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## ahcnc

As I understand it..Shot had to break on the 3rd attempt. No more than 3 let downs....am I wrong?? Just wondering, as I have no dog in this fight.


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## mikeg68

ahcnc said:


> As I understand it..Shot had to break on the 3rd attempt. No more than 3 let downs....am I wrong?? Just wondering, as I have no dog in this fight.


You can have 3 let downs, so you have to get the shot off on your 4th draw back.


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## ~Spot-Hogg-1~

johncraddock445 said:


> Little update.... here's what happened... Mccarthy let down 3 times then another archer offered to go ahead and shoot to let him relax.... so the complaint was based upon shooting out of order...
> 
> Sent from my V8000_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2



Evans, not McCarthy. McCarthy has nothing to do with this protest.


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## ~Spot-Hogg-1~

Also from what I have heard, neither Chance or Danny Evans filed the protest either. It was another archer named Mackenroy, I believe.


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## johncraddock445

~Spot-Hogg-1~ said:


> Also from what I have heard, neither Chance or Danny Evans filed the protest either. It was another archer named Mackenroy, I believe.


this guy is going to feel awfully welcome at world's 

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## f4yg

I've heard numerous stories so I'll wait until the official report..


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## ~Spot-Hogg-1~

f4yg said:


> I've heard numerous stories so I'll wait until the official report..


Yeah, probably the best approach. Curious to see what comes of this.


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## Bowtech n ROSS

~Spot-Hogg-1~ said:


> Also from what I have heard, neither Chance or Danny Evans filed the protest either. It was another archer named Mackenroy, I believe.


According to the score sheet bow junky posted there wasn't a pro listed with that name.


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## shooter74

Daniel Boone said:


> I believe this has been an issue before(protested) and yes you cant shoot and give an advantage to your buddy by throwing a arrow up first.
> Rules need to be followed, IBO needs to do the right thing and enforce rules.
> 
> DB


Dan I do agree with every thing you just said however it happen last year also and there was not a thing done about it...........


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## Daniel Boone

shooter74 said:


> Dan I do agree with every thing you just said however it happen last year also and there was not a thing done about it...........


I discussed it with two IBO pros and both said shooting out of turn happens all the time and there nothing in the rules that says it Illegal at all. Im told the protest is for shooting out of turn. If it not written in the rules the protest doesn't have a leg to stand on, any lawyer would sue IBO and win.
DB


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## Daniel Boone

mikeg68 said:


> I guess you have a different rule book than the one IBO has on their web site. There is no rule about that to be enforced.


You are correct. Just seems like an obvious rule but quess not for IBO. How can you protest something that not in the rules.
DB


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## 3rdplace

Bowtech n ROSS said:


> According to the score sheet bow junky posted there wasn't a pro listed with that name.


Probably Tyler MacEnroy. . 

He's on Twitter. Follow him.


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## 3rdplace

Here's his last tweet:


@TylerMackenroy: @thearcherynomad hit 17 14s n a row at ibo then my group told me they dontcount. bs if you ask me. walked off andwon the catfish classic


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## johncraddock445

3rdplace said:


> Here's his last tweet:
> 
> 
> @TylerMackenroy: @thearcherynomad hit 17 14s n a row at ibo then my group told me they dontcount. bs if you ask me. walked off andwon the catfish classic


We have 14's in ibo? This is news to me 

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## SonnyThomas

Well if Chance or Dan didn't file the Protest why would someone not effected by the contest Protest? So who filed for Appeal?


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## ACE430

If it is your turn to lead off the target and they let you go last it can be a big difference in your score on that target. My shooting buddy has a great day going and on the last target he has to lead off with a black target in a dark hole. I know if I ask to shoot first to help him out he will say no because it is his turn. Why change the order when that is what you have done all day. It might not say so in the rules but we all know how it should be done.


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## Daniel Boone

ACE430 said:


> If it is your turn to lead off the target and they let you go last it can be a big difference in your score on that target. My shooting buddy has a great day going and on the last target he has to lead off with a black target in a dark hole. I know if I ask to shoot first to help him out he will say no because it is his turn. Why change the order when that is what you have done all day. It might not say so in the rules but we all know how it should be done.


Then they need to write it in the rules. Because Im told by more than one pro it happens all the time because it not a written rule.
DB


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## Hittingguru

If one of the posters is correct, in that someone let down 3 times, then another archer stepped in and took their shot, the rule violation comes in the 2 minute rule. Once it becomes your turn to shoot (as determined by the rules) you have 2 minutes. If you let down 3 times, turn 2 cartwheels, dance a jig, or any thing else, you have only 2 minutes to shoot. If in fact you do let someone shoot once you have started your shot sequence, it's your 2 minutes they are using. There is no rule for determining a shooting order, it's always stated when you get your cards from the range tent, determine (within the group) your shooting order.


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## cenochs

Hittingguru said:


> If one of the posters is correct, in that someone let down 3 times, then another archer stepped in and took their shot, the rule violation comes in the 2 minute rule. Once it becomes your turn to shoot (as determined by the rules) you have 2 minutes. If you let down 3 times, turn 2 cartwheels, dance a jig, or any thing else, you have only 2 minutes to shoot. If in fact you do let someone shoot once you have started your shot sequence, it's your 2 minutes they are using. There is no rule for determining a shooting order, it's always stated when you get your cards from the range tent, determine (within the group) your shooting order.


That's what I have been waiting for someone to say you are exactly correct. There really isn't no way around it 2 min is 2 min


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## Alpha Burnt

Daniel Boone said:


> Im pretty sure you got to shoot in order. One could have an advantage toward the end if he got to shoot last. Having an arrow in target helps on black target
> DB


Conversely shooting first on a target with a smaller kill gives you an advantage


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## Alpha Burnt

Protest procedures can be found in this PDF document under section 4, http://www.ibo.net/pdf/2013/IBO_RULES_2013.pdf


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## Alpha Burnt

More importantly, I believe I heard local shooter Drew DAMRON won the National Triple Crown!

in Hunter Class.


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## 3rdplace

Obviously it wasn't MackEnroy:

@TylerMackenroy: Lots of rumors flyin around. I didnt progress Danny. I progressted @thearcherynomad for shuttering the camera shooting. I'm goin noodlin


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## trinibob

Yes 2 minutes is two minutes


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## fireunit29

From what I heard the protest was against Danny Evans. Evans and Chance were tied for second and Danny Mcarthy and Levi tied for third. It was the 2 minute rule being protested by Mcarthy or Levi which would move them both up too 3rd and 4th not 4th and 5th


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## proXarchery

there is a lot to this story . a little history


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## tmorelli

proXarchery said:


> there is a lot to this story . a little history


Its tit for tat childish crap. JMHO

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## Deer Slayer I

Daniel Boone said:


> Then they need to write it in the rules. Because Im told by more than one pro it happens all the time because it not a written rule.
> DB


then thats cheating scorecards are given out random order selected and thats the order an other order is wrong


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## Daniel Boone

Deer Slayer I said:


> then thats cheating scorecards are given out random order selected and thats the order an other order is wrong


Not a rule in IBO that says you got the follow the order of scorecard!
DB


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## shootist

I didn't think the group were the ones to police the 2 minute rule. I assumed IBO official would be the only one to do that. I don't have the rules in front of me, but I would think you would get one warning for violating the 2 minute rule before you starting getting penalties. It sounds like a bad protest to me.


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## EROS

SonnyThomas said:


> Well if Chance or Dan didn't file the Protest why would someone not effected by the contest Protest? So who filed for Appeal?


Someone with a ax to grid.


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## 1monstertriumph

Funny how some pros get away with it and others get punished....sure sounds like favoritism and a bunch of crap trying to label one of the best guys out there a cheater. I hope the ibo gets as much negative publicity out of this as possible. Enforcing rules that don't exist....wow! Appears this could be a big boost for Regions Archery!


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## SonnyThomas

1monstertriumph said:


> Funny how some pros get away with it and others get punished....sure sounds like favoritism and a bunch of crap trying to label one of the best guys out there a cheater. *I hope the ibo gets as much negative publicity out of this as possible. Enforcing rules that don't exist*....wow! Appears this could be a big boost for Regions Archery!


A Protest was filed and a Appeal filed. All is on hold until a decision is made. I understand the Protestor left or this would have been cleared up by now, I would think.

If nothing else more have commented on the crappy McKenzie targets giving the IBO a boost.
And then I remember the IBO quickly disqualifying this person over range finder binoculars and the IBO recieving praise. On the other hand though, every one was screaming bloody murder over the ASA dragging it's feet in disqualifying the same individual.....
So it's "six of this and half dozen of that."

Couple more bad turn outs for Regions and there won't be a Regions......


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## dartshooter

well looks like we finally get something out of the pros( DRAMA.) At least we got something out of them. Would all there entry fees come close to what us normal shooters pay and what do we get out of it maybe a couple hundred bucks from the ibo. AS far as that goes what do we get out of the bow companies even when we are the ones paying for the bows and shooting and talking to alot more people then the pros. If i was a pro shooter and was getting paid to shoot and i was in a shoot down with a amateur shooter and i beat them i would hand them the winnings. After all if it wasnt for the 1000 of us there would be no sport of archery.


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## Daniel Boone

dartshooter said:


> well looks like we finally get something out of the pros( DRAMA.) At least we got something out of them. Would all there entry fees come close to what us normal shooters pay and what do we get out of it maybe a couple hundred bucks from the ibo. AS far as that goes what do we get out of the bow companies even when we are the ones paying for the bows and shooting and talking to alot more people then the pros. If i was a pro shooter and was getting paid to shoot and i was in a shoot down with a amateur shooter and i beat them i would hand them the winnings. After all if it wasnt for the 1000 of us there would be no sport of archery.


Blah Blah Blah.

Pros shoot there butts off to get where they are! Your not a pro and most likely never will be so don't sit and tell us what you would do if you shot any where as good as a pro. Pros are the best of the best when it comes to tournament archery. 
DB


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## Alpha Burnt

dartshooter said:


> well looks like we finally get something out of the pros( DRAMA.) At least we got something out of them. Would all there entry fees come close to what us normal shooters pay and what do we get out of it maybe a couple hundred bucks from the ibo. AS far as that goes what do we get out of the bow companies even when we are the ones paying for the bows and shooting and talking to alot more people then the pros. If i was a pro shooter and was getting paid to shoot and i was in a shoot down with a amateur shooter and i beat them i would hand them the winnings. After all if it wasnt for the 1000 of us there would be no sport of archery.


That would be called knowing which side your bread is buttered on around here! Would be nice to see the pro's interact more, maybe if IBO had a TV show, they could show pointers and such. Everyone knows with the monies the two of them are knocking down at these national shoots they could at least give something back to the blue collar shooters.


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## LiteSpeed1

Daniel Boone said:


> Blah Blah Blah.
> 
> Pros shoot there butts off to get where they are! *Your not a pro and most likely never will be *so don't sit and tell us what you would do if you shot any where as good as a pro. Pros are the best of the best when it comes to tournament archery.
> DB


Why not?


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## dartshooter

Alpha Burnt said:


> That would be called knowing which side your bread is buttered on around here! Would be nice to see the pro's interact more, maybe if IBO had a TV show, they could show pointers and such. Everyone knows with the monies the two of them are knocking down at these national shoots they could at least give something back to the blue collar shooters.[/QUOTE
> Thats all i was trying to get across. Never meant to take nothing away from the pro shooters in anyway. They have worked hard to get there. And i have heard a few of them say they wanted to shoot on sight with all of the blue collar shooters and i hope that happens.


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## Padgett

I hope things get cleared up and nobody ends up hating each other, our sport is very Dependant on self policing ourselves. To me there are two types of rules and one takes care of keeping the course moving in a good pace and the others are to regulate cheating. When serious money is on the line feathers get ruffled but hopefully the committee uses common sense and rules correctly.


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## ohiobullseye

I do hope that the IBO resolves the matter quickly and intelligently. I also agree that the pro's should have their course with our courses and set up so they could interact more with the Future Bowhunter's my two kids Forrest 4, and Alexandria 8 would have loved to be able to see the pro's possibly hand out their trophies or just give them an hand shake.


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## MrBobo

Pros inter-action with Joes: Scott releases had a release seminar on Thursday eve, night before Marengo- at Fin,Feather, & Fur in Ashland ,OH. That's about 30 minutes from the shoot. A friend and I went. Maybe 10 people showed up, 1/2 of them were 3D shooters, the others were local hunters. We had Levi, Eric G, Darrin C., Tommy G, Adam H. and a couple of others - all to ourselves for almost 2 hours. We talked hunting, shooting, anything we wanted. Allot of 1 on 1 conversations. I thought it was phenomenal! All of the Pros were super nice and very helpful. I learned some things, and really re-enforced some things I already knew. These are regular guys...there's no magic bullet to become what they are...allot of hard work and total dedication.

I think if this seminar were better publicized, the turnout would have been allot better.


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## Dan-0

MrBobo said:


> Pros inter-action with Joes: Scott releases had a release seminar on Thursday eve, night before Marengo- at Fin,Feather, & Fur in Ashland ,OH. That's about 30 minutes from the shoot. A friend and I went. Maybe 10 people showed up, 1/2 of them were 3D shooters, the others were local hunters. We had Levi, Eric G, Darrin C., Tommy G, Adam H. and a couple of others - all to ourselves for almost 2 hours. We talked hunting, shooting, anything we wanted. Allot of 1 on 1 conversations. I thought it was phenomenal! All of the Pros were super nice and very helpful. I learned some things, and really re-enforced some things I already knew. These are regular guys...there's no magic bullet to become what they are...allot of hard work and total dedication.
> 
> I think if this seminar were better publicized, the turnout would have been allot better.


I would have been there if I would have known about it. Sounds like an awesome opportunity!


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## Babyk

I dont know what happened and dont care to know really I can assure you tho that Danny E is one of the top guys in the sport.....always willing to help stoos and talks to anyone who wants to talk to him puts in countless hours of practice and always trys to attend and support local clubs......ive shot with him exclusively for the past few seasons around home and he is as by the book as they come......others who have no idea what there talking about on here can take there drama somewhere else cause here on AT they dont hand out key board tuff guys awards......


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## tmorelli

Don't know if its correct but I just heard the protestors have retracted the protest. 
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## STRICNINE

Daniel Boone said:


> Blah Blah Blah.
> 
> Pros shoot there butts off to get where they are! Your not a pro and most likely never will be so don't sit and tell us what you would do if you shot any where as good as a pro. Pros are the best of the best when it comes to tournament archery.
> DB


I disagree. Pro's are whoever pays to shoot in the pro class. There are very few "Pros" in the pro class (We all know who the actual pros are). Everyone else is just a "pro" who paid to play and pad the purse. So to be correct, if the gentlemen you were speaking to wants to be a "pro", he can pay to be called a "Pro". lol


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## Daniel Boone

STRICNINE said:


> I disagree. Pro's are whoever pays to shoot in the pro class. There are very few "Pros" in the pro class (We all know who the actual pros are). Everyone else is just a "pro" who paid to play and pad the purse. So to be correct, if the gentlemen you were speaking to wants to be a "pro", he can pay to be called a "Pro". lol


Im talking about a pro who can actual reach the podium and get a check. Anyone can pay an entry fee but only a few will ever cash or stand on the podium in pro ranks. If someone doesnt understand how good the pros really are they darn sure wont ever achieve how hard it is to be a winning pro.
DB


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## Daniel Boone

Babyk said:


> I dont know what happened and dont care to know really I can assure you tho that Danny E is one of the top guys in the sport.....always willing to help stoos and talks to anyone who wants to talk to him puts in countless hours of practice and always trys to attend and support local clubs......ive shot with him exclusively for the past few seasons around home and he is as by the book as they come......others who have no idea what there talking about on here can take there drama somewhere else cause here on AT they dont hand out key board tuff guys awards......



Danny Evans is a class act. Always has been and always will. Group of archers shooting with him that day were also top class act pros. Danny is that pro that is willing to help anyone and is as friendly as it gets.
DB


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## Daniel Boone

tmorelli said:


> Don't know if its correct but I just heard the protestors have retracted the protest.
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


 I surely hope your correct!
DB


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## tmorelli

Babyk said:


> Hmmm........gutless maybe???
> 
> Eitherway it be best if this gets put to bed quickly and IBO can try to stop the bleeding of bad press there earning from it


I'm hopeful it was more a glimmer of wisdom or discipline rather than a lack of guts.


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## sagecreek

Babyk said:


> Hmmm........gutless maybe???
> 
> Eitherway it be best if this gets put to bed quickly and IBO can try to stop the bleeding of bad press there earning from it


I don't see it as bad press for the IBO. It's not their fault.


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## Rolo

Random question, and I don't really care about the specifics of who was involved in this particular matter.

The question is: Assuming that something happens like was speculated in this thread, shooter gets to the stake, for whatever reason (other than equipment failure) he/she cannot/ does not shoot, steps aside, someone else shoots, and then the original shooter re-takes the stake and shoots. Assuming that the 2 minute time has lapsed (or whatever time limit applies) what is the end result, and what should or should not happen?

We know that at other timed events, if the arrow ain't shot in the required time, it shouldn't count. If something like is speculated happened at this shoot, or any other, why would the arrow score? Why would we 'allow' it to score? Maybe, more importantly, why would the individual 'accept' it as a legitimate score?

O.K. a bunch of questions. But in the end, we all want archery to become 'legitimate' and 'mainstream'. How can that ever happen if the rules of whatever the particular game are able to be applied or not applied arbitrarily? Where is the 'honor' of the individual who benefits form doing this? It's not a judgment call like an umpire or referee. It seems to me, that enforcement and application of the rules starts with the individual, and the group. There can be little by way of legitimacy otherwise. 

Hey, anyone remember '6 arrow gate' from Indoor Nationals in 2012? Everyone bagged, rightfully so, on the guy who shot the 6 arrows. He knew it was wrong, but because of the 'rules' in play, he got away with it. Does not appear to be remotely the same thing, but the philosophy is the same. If we expect the individual to follow the rules, they ought to follow them. They should not be selectively applied or enforced. 

Again, general questions only and rambling thoughts. Not a comment about anyone involved in this particular issue, of which I know nothing about.


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## sagecreek

I'm not carrying a stop watch to an archery shoot. Well, at least I haven't yet.


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## shootist

Rolo said:


> Random question, and I don't really care about the specifics of who was involved in this particular matter.
> 
> The question is: Assuming that something happens like was speculated in this thread, shooter gets to the stake, for whatever reason (other than equipment failure) he/she cannot/ does not shoot, steps aside, someone else shoots, and then the original shooter re-takes the stake and shoots. Assuming that the 2 minute time has lapsed (or whatever time limit applies) what is the end result, and what should or should not happen?
> 
> We know that at other timed events, if the arrow ain't shot in the required time, it shouldn't count. If something like is speculated happened at this shoot, or any other, why would the arrow score? Why would we 'allow' it to score? Maybe, more importantly, why would the individual 'accept' it as a legitimate score?
> 
> O.K. a bunch of questions. But in the end, we all want archery to become 'legitimate' and 'mainstream'. How can that ever happen if the rules of whatever the particular game are able to be applied or not applied arbitrarily? Where is the 'honor' of the individual who benefits form doing this? It's not a judgment call like an umpire or referee. It seems to me, that enforcement and application of the rules starts with the individual, and the group. There can be little by way of legitimacy otherwise.
> 
> Hey, anyone remember '6 arrow gate' from Indoor Nationals in 2012? Everyone bagged, rightfully so, on the guy who shot the 6 arrows. He knew it was wrong, but because of the 'rules' in play, he got away with it. Does not appear to be remotely the same thing, but the philosophy is the same. If we expect the individual to follow the rules, they ought to follow them. They should not be selectively applied or enforced.
> 
> Again, general questions only and rambling thoughts. Not a comment about anyone involved in this particular issue, of which I know nothing about.


This protest had very little to do with a 2 minute rule. That really isn't the issue at hand. It had to do with shooting out of order, which is not currently banned under the rules. Only a range official can determine if the 2 minute rule had been broken and there was not a range official present, let alone a stop watch.


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## Rolo

shootist said:


> This protest had very little to do with a 2 minute rule. That really isn't the issue at hand. It had to do with shooting out of order, which is not currently banned under the rules. Only a range official can determine if the 2 minute rule had been broken and there was not a range official present, let alone a stop watch.


That's cool, and like I said, I have no idea why the protest was filed.

Only addressing the speculation that was raised in this thread, and trying to figure out how, if it was true, it could be considered legitimate.

But assuming the facts as speculated in this thread are true at some point in the future. Is there any reasonable argument that 2 minutes has not lapsed from the time the shooter began his/her time at the stake, drew and let-down 3 times, left the stake, someone else (at least 1 person) then shoots, and the original shooter returns to the stake? Is a stop-watch really needed?

Where's the legitimacy in the rules, their enforcement, or the game itself? Where's the legitimacy of the individual involved in the hypothetical? 

It applies across all venues too. It just seems to me that if something like was speculated ever happens, it would do nothing to legitimize archery, or make it acceptable.

Again...a general discussion of a hypothetical, and nutt'n to do with this particular issue.


----------



## Kstigall

3D archery isn't exactly an "old time" sport. There will be rules that need to be modified or updated. Maybe a new rule needs to added. It should be expected............. Maybe there should be a rule that reads something like, "All archers must shoot in the agreed upon shooting order for the entire course UNLESS all archers in the group are in agree to change the shooting order." Then us tight asses wouldn't get all puckered up if Joe Pro shoots out of "order" while Jack Pro takes a leak............


----------



## GreggWNY

You know what the difference is between pros classes and amateur classes??? about a $250 entry fee.


----------



## sagecreek

I think it was pretty nice that they let him have a few minutes to get ready to try again.

I don't see anything wrong with it.


----------



## Rolo

sagecreek said:


> I think it was pretty nice that they let him have a few minutes to get ready to try again.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with it.


Sure...it may have been 'nice'. If everyone on the line at Vegas agrees that someone can have a little extra time to shoot their last arrow, that would be 'nice' of them too. Being nice has nothing to do with it.

Legitimacy, and bigger acceptance (if that is what we want) cannot come, IMO, if the rules are selectively applied. More so, if the individual participants cannot apply them to themselves, there does not seem to be a whole bunch of honor or legitimacy.

Does anyone really think Barry Bonds HR record is 'legitimate', even though...why would it be different in archery?


----------



## J Whittington

To me it is common sense and professional ethics to follow the shooting order that is drawn prior to start the event. If not, why have an order to begin with? 

Sage I agree with you, that was a nice gesture. However, how is that fair play for the rest of the competitors?


----------



## shootist

Rolo said:


> That's cool, and like I said, I have no idea why the protest was filed.
> 
> Only addressing the speculation that was raised in this thread, and trying to figure out how, if it was true, it could be considered legitimate.
> 
> But assuming the facts as speculated in this thread are true at some point in the future. Is there any reasonable argument that 2 minutes has not lapsed from the time the shooter began his/her time at the stake, drew and let-down 3 times, left the stake, someone else (at least 1 person) then shoots, and the original shooter returns to the stake? Is a stop-watch really needed?
> 
> Where's the legitimacy in the rules, their enforcement, or the game itself? Where's the legitimacy of the individual involved in the hypothetical?
> 
> It applies across all venues too. It just seems to me that if something like was speculated ever happens, it would do nothing to legitimize archery, or make it acceptable.
> 
> Again...a general discussion of a hypothetical, and nutt'n to do with this particular issue.


Probably a great question for another thread, but I will respond. 

The subject you are referring to (self-policing) is dealt with different in many sports.

Golf is certainly a self-policing sport. 

In basketball you obviously don't call a foul on yourself if the ref doesn't witness it. Same in baseball and football. In tennis I don't think there is much self-policing either, but I'm not positive.

So it isn't a must in other sports, but it is an interesting topic. And golf is closest to 3d archery in terms of layout and competition.


----------



## Rolo

shootist said:


> Probably a great question for another thread, but I will respond.
> 
> The subject you are referring to (self-policing) is dealt with different in many sports.
> 
> Golf is certainly a self-policing sport.
> 
> In basketball you obviously don't call a foul on yourself if the ref doesn't witness it. Same in baseball and football. In tennis I don't think there is much self-policing either, but I'm not positive.
> 
> So it isn't a must in other sports, but it is an interesting topic. And golf is closest to 3d archery in terms of layout and competition.


Yeah...maybe another thread...gotta figure out where it may belong. In the Gen pop, it likely gets buried by "Which color of strings" threads. 3-D it misses the field crowd, etc.

But yeah, generally golf if the most similar to 3-D or field archery. The other's have officials present to call the fouls, or not, as they occur.

Golf, and it's participants, gains a ton of legitimacy because of its self-policing, and individual honor. (I'll leave out the TV viewers calling in.) Just not sure where that leaves archery, especially when the comments in this thread and others, seem to imply that there is no need to do this, and it is 'nice' to allow it to happen...


----------



## TeamBowJunky

Daniel Boone said:


> I surely hope your correct!
> DB


Levi made a statement on our FB page regarding the filed protest. Thanks


----------



## Dv8tion

A shooter has 2 min to shoot. His "clock" starts when he steps up to the stake. Would it not make sense then, that when he left the stake his clock would then stop? Would it not make sense then that the shooter is entitled to use the remainder of his 2 min? So a shooter steps up to the stake and his clock starts he is a 1 min in and hasn't been able to shoot, so he steps back and lets another shooter shoot. The second shooter shoot his arrow and the first shooter steps back up and fires his shot within the remaining 1 min. Would this still be considered a violation? I think that the rules need to be addressed and a solution for this scenario presented and written.


----------



## Rolo

Dv8tion said:


> A shooter has 2 min to shoot. His "clock" starts when he steps up to the stake. Would it not make sense then, that when he left the stake his clock would then stop? Would it not make sense then that the shooter is entitled to use the remainder of his 2 min? So a shooter steps up to the stake and his clock starts he is a 1 min in and hasn't been able to shoot, so he steps back and lets another shooter shoot. The second shooter shoot his arrow and the first shooter steps back up and fires his shot within the remaining 1 min. Would this still be considered a violation? I think that the rules need to be addressed and a solution for this scenario presented and written.


Personally, I'd consider it a rules violation, and would not think that stepping away from the stake stops the clock.

More importantly, I think there is a lot more 'honor' and 'ethics' in choosing to do what is 'right', even if it is to your detriment.


----------



## sagecreek

J Whittington said:


> To me it is common sense and professional ethics to follow the shooting order that is drawn prior to start the event. If not, why have an order to begin with?
> 
> Sage I agree with you, that was a nice gesture. However, how is that fair play for the rest of the competitors?


Jerry, it appears everyone in THAT group felt that it was fair. Really doesn't matter what our little group here thinks. JMO.


----------



## J Whittington

Yes in THAT group, your correct, but THAT group is not the only group competing in that class. The PROTEST did not come form THAT Group. Think about it


----------



## sagecreek

J Whittington said:


> Yes in THAT group, your correct, but THAT group is not the only group competing in that class. The PROTEST did not come form THAT Group. Think about it


I see your point. Duly noted.

Hence, the other group protesting.


----------



## Rolo

J Whittington said:


> Yes in THAT group, your correct, but THAT group is not the only group competing in that class. The PROTEST did not come form THAT Group. Think about it


And...do we really want 'groups' arbitrarily applying or not applying the rules? Do we really want 'groups' deciding to be 'nice', or in the alternative, not be 'nice'? Do we really want 'groups' deciding that the generally recognized 'agreement' on such things that the rules specifically don't cover can be ignored because it is 'nice', even though it could impact the '[nice' people in the group ahead or behind? Talk about a 'good ol' boy' who's your friend, who don't you like system.

I'm starting to see a bigger, and better reason for officials at all stakes...though I still think it is a logistical nightmare.


----------



## Dv8tion

Rolo said:


> Personally, I'd consider it a rules violation, and would not think that stepping away from the stake stops the clock.
> 
> More importantly, I think there is a lot more 'honor' and 'ethics' in choosing to do what is 'right', even if it is to your detriment.


The problem is that there is no rule prohibiting this scenario. Now, from what I can tell this was a protest for shooting out of order. There is no rule dictating that a order must be followed in the IBO. The protest was dropped and we should all move on.


----------



## J Whittington

Regardless of who, or if anyone is at fault, I hope this issue will be resolved quickly. 

Life is to short for grudges, and ill will toward others.


----------



## Rolo

Dv8tion said:


> The problem is that there is no rule prohibiting this scenario. Now, from what I can tell this was a protest for shooting out of order. There is no rule dictating that a order must be followed in the IBO. The protest was dropped and we should all move on.


Yeah, I get that. I also get there is no specific rule. But I also know that there is an accepted practice among the groups.

That's also why I started a new thread.


----------



## peregrine82

Not getting in to the topic at hand. Just looking for a clarification on when the clock starts. I was under the impression the 2 minute clock started when the shooter ahead of you shot his arrow.


----------



## Daniel Boone

GreggWNY said:


> You know what the difference is between pros classes and amateur classes??? about a $250 entry fee.


Pros shoot allot much better! Allot much better. If you dont agree jump in there and get your feet wet.
DB


----------



## shooter74

Daniel Boone said:


> You are correct. Just seems like an obvious rule but quess not for IBO. How can you protest something that not in the rules.
> DB




that's the IBO for you .. that's why I don't shoot the IBO . ASA is so much better


----------



## shooter74

Daniel Boone said:


> Pros shoot allot much better! Allot much better. If you dont agree jump in there and get your feet wet.
> DB


that 250.00 fee has not a thing to do with sorry again dan is right you feeling froggy jump on in and take in all the water you will get cause those guys can shoot .


----------



## Daniel Boone

TeamBowJunky said:


> Levi made a statement on our FB page regarding the filed protest. Thanks


I didnt see that! Just got some inside sources that where at the event. I did know Levi pulled his protest first is what I was being told.

Of course Im sure like any event rumors get miss informed.

I for one am thankfull because I got much respect for Danny Evans and those in his group shooting that day and dont comprehend them cheating anytime 
DB


----------



## Daniel Boone

shooter74 said:


> that's the IBO for you .. that's why I don't shoot the IBO . ASA is so much better


Im certianly not against IBO. Wish we had more IBO in my area. Seems ASA is taking there show to the east again. 


DB


----------



## shooter74

the sad thing about it is the pro that started all of this has done it him self sometime down the road its all the crying that goes on just shoot your bow and stop crying.. some are better then others,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## sagecreek

Levi is saying Danny was taking the lead on a 40 yard turkey, but didn't. Instead got to hear 3 arrows to help judge and 3 aiming reference points by going last instead of first. I can see his point.


----------



## SonnyThomas

shooter74 said:


> that's the IBO for you .. that's why I don't shoot the IBO . ASA is so much better


BS! Wait til you're in the position to know how rules are bent and broken in the ASA.


----------



## tmorelli

sagecreek said:


> Levi is saying Danny was taking the lead on a 40 yard turkey, but didn't. Instead got to hear 3 arrows to help judge and 3 aiming reference points by going last instead of first. I can see his point.


I wish there was an emoticon throwing a rock at a glass house. Too bad, there should be.


----------



## carlosii

sagecreek said:


> Levi is saying Danny was taking the lead on a 40 yard turkey, but didn't. Instead got to hear 3 arrows to help judge and 3 aiming reference points by going last instead of first. I can see his point.



so Danny is making use of Gary Studt's sound CD?


----------



## sagecreek

All turkeys, no matter how far, looks like 20 to me. lain:


----------



## reylamb

sagecreek said:


> All turkeys, no matter how far, looks like 20 to me. lain:


And they all look 50 to me!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## STRICNINE

Daniel Boone said:


> Pros shoot allot much better! Allot much better. If you dont agree jump in there and get your feet wet.
> DB



Some do, not all. Some Pro's have moved back classes only to lose. One very recently. Let's stop classifying all pros as one in the same as they certainly are not. That's the point. Some pro's are pros, others are paid entry fees to be called pro. lol

Also, don't put rule violations past a Pro. Just watch Bow Junky and you can watch guys violate rules. It is what it is, but most folks caught violating rules were noted as "one of the nicest people I ever met". lol

I'll stop now, it's a losing battle. hahahahaha Good day.


----------



## USAarcher

MrBobo said:


> Pros inter-action with Joes: Scott releases had a release seminar on Thursday eve, night before Marengo- at Fin,Feather, & Fur in Ashland ,OH. That's about 30 minutes from the shoot. A friend and I went. Maybe 10 people showed up, 1/2 of them were 3D shooters, the others were local hunters. We had Levi, Eric G, Darrin C., Tommy G, Adam H. and a couple of others - all to ourselves for almost 2 hours. We talked hunting, shooting, anything we wanted. Allot of 1 on 1 conversations. I thought it was phenomenal! All of the Pros were super nice and very helpful. I learned some things, and really re-enforced some things I already knew. These are regular guys...there's no magic bullet to become what they are...allot of hard work and total dedication.
> 
> I think if this seminar were better publicized, the turnout would have been allot better.



How did you find out about this?? I would have been there instantly if I would have known!! How do I not miss another opportunity like this one????


----------



## BigGobbler

It will be intresting too see but it really comes down to money!


----------



## Daniel Boone

Have we determined there is no rule in IBO that requires shooters to shoot in random order?

DB


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## archerydude21

Daniel Boone said:


> Have we determined there is no rule in IBO that requires shooters to shoot in random order?
> 
> DB


I have shot IBO tournaments for over 15 years and I have never seen such a rule in print.


----------



## nochance

shooter74 said:


> that's the IBO for you .. that's why I don't shoot the IBO . ASA is so much better


oh stop


----------



## hawglarry

I was there when the protest was filed but don't know most of the details. The one thing I do know is that the protest was listed as Unsportsmanlike conduct. It was all kept hush hush until a final ruling is made. And as the pros being available for interaction with the common joe's... They were. They were in the vending area and around the registration both for 3 or 4 hours. A friends son approached Levi Morgan on 2 different occasions for an autograph and he cheerfully gave it to him both times. One on his hat and one on his bow. He then stood and talked to this 9 year old boy for about 10 minutes about the bows bow and his shooting. I have been to several celebrity events and have never seen as much interaction with the public as I saw on Saturday! This was my 1st national shoot and I was impressed with the interaction going on!


----------



## ACE430

I would have to say most good shooters will score higher shooting last on a hard turkey shot than shooting first. He could not make the shot for a couple of reasons.1- not sure about the yardage 2- did not have a good aiming point on the target. Going last made each of these much easier for him to shoot that target. If he could not shoot that arrow when it was his turn then he should have taken 0 for that target. He had a advantage going last and this could lead to groups changing order to help aid anyone in their group.


----------



## James1529

From what I hear is that Levi is making a big deal out of this thing. But he was protested a few years ago at the triple crown for shooting a whole day out of order, and no one blew it up like this. He's a good shot, but sore loser. If you notice, if he loses and finds an excuse he will harp on it until he realizes he can't get his way.


----------



## BTROCKS

Nice first post :thumbs_do


----------



## sagecreek

James1529 said:


> From what I hear is that Levi is making a big deal out of this thing. But he was protested a few years ago at the triple crown for shooting a whole day out of order, and no one blew it up like this. He's a good shot, but sore loser. If you notice, if he loses and finds an excuse he will harp on it until he realizes he can't get his way.


Good first post. lain:


----------



## SMshootsmathews

ACE430 said:


> I would have to say most good shooters will score higher shooting last on a hard turkey shot than shooting first. He could not make the shot for a couple of reasons.1- not sure about the yardage 2- did not have a good aiming point on the target. Going last made each of these much easier for him to shoot that target. If he could not shoot that arrow when it was his turn then he should have taken 0 for that target. He had a advantage going last and this could lead to groups changing order to help aid anyone in their group.


But that could also work against him correct? A 40 yard turkey really isn't that far, heck we (FBO) had one at 45.5. When there are three arrows in the Pepsi can sized-10 ring, you're most likely to shoot an 8 anyway due to kick-outs right? And from what I hear Danny E let down 3 times and another shooter volunteered to shoot in place of him. And then because Levi wasn't in the top spot he found something to get someone else disqualified because he himself didn't shoot good enough. Sure was a 'class act'! Typical Levi drama if you ask me.


----------



## J Whittington

I have never seen a champion that enjoyed losing! I will also add its impossible to become a champion until you learn how to lose. Most people cannot win because they are afraid to!


----------



## Alpha Burnt

I have said it before and I will say it again (DB will disagree again too,LOL) there needs to be judges in 3D archery. 1 per stake. It would be their call and not left to someone that would be uncomfortable doing the right thing. It would solve a lot of griping and legitimize the sport.


----------



## J Whittington

alpha I agree with you, but that will not happen due to the logistics, and lack of man power. I do understand where Dan is coming from too.


----------



## Daniel Boone

Alpha Burnt said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again (DB will disagree again too,LOL) there needs to be judges in 3D archery. 1 per stake. It would be their call and not left to someone that would be uncomfortable doing the right thing. It would solve a lot of griping and legitimize the sport.


Your right I dont think they could find enough judges with all the rules. Heck seems even the pros themself dont know what the rules are. Atleast the ones filing the protest. I feel the pros in Danny Evans group knew exactly what the rules were.
DB


----------



## Rolo

J Whittington said:


> alpha I agree with you, but that will not happen due to the logistics, and lack of man power. I do understand where Dan is coming from too.


Hey...I agree, and seeing the justification for it more everyday. The logistics are the nightmare.


----------



## scott*devin

Garceau said:


> What i did hear was someone shot out of order. Not sure though its probably 4-5th hand knowledge so i cant bet a soda on it!
> 
> Not sure how the process all works with appeals/protest and all.
> 
> But hey its somewhat exciting?
> 
> 
> Figured someone there has to know
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


I Heard Danny Evans shot out of order and Tim saw him through the bino's. I don't know if its true or not. You know how rumors goes.


----------



## scott*devin

tmorelli said:


> Don't know if its correct but I just heard the protestors have retracted the protest.
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


I just heard that to.


----------



## southpaw3d

No matter how it played out, it all comes down to this, Danny still had to made the shot, he did........good job Danny. And the one who filed the protest probably did the same thing one day, that's why he filed the protest, because he knows how much of an advantage it is to hear arrows or to have something to aim at. But, there's nothing in the rules saying it's illegal.......let it go.........Danny had the better weekend end of story let him enjoy it and stop ruining his good shoot. You can't win them all Levi........!


----------



## carlosii

BTROCKS said:


> Nice first post :thumbs_do


is it possible that this is someone who created a new screen name just so he/she could make that post without exposing their true identity? who's behind that mask? who was that masked man? :glasses9:


----------



## treeman65

southpaw3d said:


> No matter how it played out, it all comes down to this, Danny still had to made the shot, he did........good job Danny. And the one who filed the protest probably did the same thing one day, that's why he filed the protest, because he knows how much of an advantage it is to hear arrows or to have something to aim at. But, there's nothing in the rules saying it's illegal.......let it go.........Danny had the better weekend end of story let him enjoy it and stop ruining his good shoot. You can't win them all Levi........!


So very true


----------



## treeman65

carlosii said:


> is it possible that this is someone who created a new screen name just so he/she could make that post without exposing their true identity? who's behind that mask? who was that masked man? :glasses9:


Or is it because so many people think that the person he commented on walks on water


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## shooter74

What Mathews saying should say you can catch us if we are crying


----------



## carlosii

treeman65 said:


> Or is it because so many people think that the person he commented on walks on water


not me...i'm a geezer and it take a lot to impress me...walking on water is no big trick...just wait'll the pond freezes over. :shade:


----------



## Dr.Dorite

The recent post are now (in my opinion) a good example as to why groups being responsible for requiring their own shooters to practice good sportsmanship, fairness, and to insure that favorite shooters do not receive unfair advantages, doesn't work. Seems that even the shooters here are following the same methods of deciding when fairness, and good sportsmanship should be practiced. Also, isn't condoning this type of behavior, and being so down on those who do bring these things to the organization's attention really just showing our own feeling that it's acceptable, only if they are our favorite shooter?


----------



## Daniel Boone

Dr.Dorite said:


> The recent post are now (in my opinion) a good example as to why groups being responsible for requiring their own shooters to practice good sportsmanship, fairness, and to insure that favorite shooters do not receive unfair advantages, doesn't work. Seems that even the shooters here are following the same methods of deciding when fairness, and good sportsmanship should be practiced. Also, isn't condoning this type of behavior, and being so down on those who do bring these things to the organization's attention really just showing our own feeling that it's acceptable, only if they are our favorite shooter?


Bottom line is its not against the rules. If your going to file a protest know the rules. 

True fact it could happen at the worlds and no one could do anything about it because its not against the rules.

IBO needs to step up and address this issue. This is not the first time it has been an issue. 

DB


----------



## tmorelli

To me the bottom line is don't protest something you're guilty of too.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## southpaw3d

tmorelli said:


> To me the bottom line is don't protest something you're guilty of too.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Exactly!!!!!


----------



## hrtlnd164

I don't know the whole story but the subject did stir a memory. In London I was shooting my first ASA, one shooter in our group had a very good round going. It was his lead on the last target, a dark tunnel walking bear out around max yardage with broken ground. Another shooter in the group who wasn't in the mix for a top finish asked if he wanted him to take the lead, the shooter with the good round replied 'no, it wouldn't be right'. To me that is what this is about, policing our own selves not the group. Written rule or not, doing the right thing is sometimes lost in the moment. This whole pissin match could have been avoided in the moment.


----------



## NateUK

Levi may have done the same thing himself, but it sounds like its happened on quite a few occasions in the pro class. So the fact of the matter is that it's a problem, and it needs to stop. If this gets the conversation going on putting in a new rule, then this whole protest is a good thing.


----------



## SonnyThomas

Thankfully, this will all be over with the next hot topic


----------



## sagecreek

Do we need a new rule, or is it OK for the group to work together?

Like a NASCAR team. :wink:


----------



## J Whittington

lOL sage


----------



## edgerat

treeman65 said:


> Or is it because so many people think that the person he commented on walks on water


and lives in a glass house....


----------



## Daniel Boone

Does any IBO member have a rules book or link to where it says you must shoot in a certain order.

I'm being told that it called unsportsmanlike to allow this! Where on earth does this rule exists and who wrote such a ruling?

Apparently four longtime pros didn't realize there such a rule in Danny group.
DB


----------



## Daniel Boone

hrtlnd164 said:


> I don't know the whole story but the subject did stir a memory. In London I was shooting my first ASA, one shooter in our group had a very good round going. It was his lead on the last target, a dark tunnel walking bear out around max yardage with broken ground. Another shooter in the group who wasn't in the mix for a top finish asked if he wanted him to take the lead, the shooter with the good round replied 'no, it wouldn't be right'. To me that is what this is about, policing our own selves not the group. Written rule or not, doing the right thing is sometimes lost in the moment. This whole pissin match could have been avoided in the moment.



Some may few this as good sportsmanship on those in the group. Unless there a rule saying I can see much confusion. 

Four top major pros saw no wrong in it and most likely considered it good sportsmanship. 
DB


----------



## edgerat

http://www.ibo.net/pdf/2013/IBO_RULES_2013.pdf

A: Shooting Etiquette 5 would be my guess what they are referring to. If someone was close to the end of their time limit and then was allowed to take a breather and then start over after another archer had shot, that would be a violation of the rules. That is the only thing I see.


----------



## reylamb

Daniel Boone said:


> Does any IBO member have a rules book or link to where it says you must shoot in a certain order.
> 
> I'm being told that it called unsportsmanlike to allow this! Where on earth does this rule exists and who wrote such a ruling?
> 
> Apparently four longtime pros didn't realize there such a rule in Danny group.
> DB


There is not a rule, as far as I can tell from my reading of their rules.......keep in mind I have not shot IBO in years, so I may have forgotten some of the rules, but I do know I can't find anything specifically about it in the current rules......

Having said that.......it could possible come under Unsportsmanlike Conduct........IF......
If there was in fact a sign stating to shoot in a specific order......
Then....rule 4.f could be applied...., which states...."Disobeying or disregarding the orders of a range official or shoot official."

I was not there, so I do not know what was said, or what was posted......so that is a BIG IF!!!!!!!!!


----------



## hrtlnd164

Daniel Boone said:


> Some may few this as good sportsmanship on those in the group. Unless there a rule saying I can see much confusion.
> 
> Four top major pros saw no wrong in it and most likely considered it good sportsmanship.
> DB


Can't argue any of that DB, there is no written rule in the IBO that says you must maintain a shooting order. With that said though; you and most here that have shot National tournaments in any organization know that it is an accepted practice to draw an order at the beginning and follow it throughout the shoot. We also know that shooting last on a tough target can be an advantage. If in the same situation would you take advantage of the unwritten rule or decline and maintain the order? That is the question we should all ask ourselves.


----------



## Bowtech11

Well one time I shot so bad on Saturday that I volunteered to shoot all 20 first, never knew there was a rule against it.


----------



## sagecreek

I'd want to shoot right after the :first: arrow was in the 12. lain:


----------



## jimb

If he went to the stake and didn't take the shot then it seems to me that the shot time would be the violation. I've also heard people say in the thread that it is not the responsibility of the group to enforce the time to shoot on the stake. I was always under the impression that it was the responsibility of the group to enforce the time limit.


----------



## JimmyP

I thought he already started his time at the stake if he drew back it started.asa you have two min I not sure about ibo do stop in the middle of your two min and let some one else shoot,how would that go over in the asa, ps I have also offered to shoot when I see a guy in my group tighten up.i guess it's a bigger deal than just being a nice guy


----------



## jimb

To answer my own question, I just read the IBO rule on time limits and it says that when you exceed the allotted time and caught by a range official you can have 5 points deducted. So I guess it is not enforced by the group.


----------



## shooter74

tmorelli said:


> To me the bottom line is don't protest something you're guilty of too.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


OH YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON WITH THIS ONE......... SEEMS TO ME HE DID THE SAME THING LAST YEAR. cry me a river Levi


----------



## reylamb

Personally, I would think shooting last on a turkey would be a disadvantge anyway...small rings and big arrows = kick outs.....

Of course anytime I see a turkey target it is a disadvantage for me.....


----------



## tmorelli

shooter74 said:


> OH YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON WITH THIS ONE......... SEEMS TO ME HE DID THE SAME THING LAST YEAR. cry me a river Levi


Don't get me wrong. I'm not "anti" Levi by any means. I actually have a lot of respect for him and what I think he generally does with his talent. 

I think it was a bad idea for him to get mixed up in this. I've heard it described well as "he had a lot more to lose than he did to gain."

In my opinion, this should simply be a learning moment and a rule should be formally created against such and we all move on.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Daniel Boone

hrtlnd164 said:


> Can't argue any of that DB, there is no written rule in the IBO that says you must maintain a shooting order. With that said though; you and most here that have shot National tournaments in any organization know that it is an accepted practice to draw an order at the beginning and follow it throughout the shoot. We also know that shooting last on a tough target can be an advantage. If in the same situation would you take advantage of the unwritten rule or decline and maintain the order? That is the question we should all ask ourselves.



Im told it has been done by several over the years including one that filed the protest. If it an issue than rewrite the rules.
DB


----------



## Daniel Boone

edgerat said:


> http://www.ibo.net/pdf/2013/IBO_RULES_2013.pdf
> 
> A: Shooting Etiquette 5 would be my guess what they are referring to. If someone was close to the end of their time limit and then was allowed to take a breather and then start over after another archer had shot, that would be a violation of the rules. That is the only thing I see.



Lawyer would rip them up on that written rule. We need a rule book for shooting etiquette! LOL
DB


----------



## Deer Slayer I

Daniel Boone said:


> Your right I dont think they could find enough judges with all the rules. Heck seems even the pros themself dont know what the rules are. Atleast the ones filing the protest. I feel the pros in Danny Evans group knew exactly what the rules were.
> DB


give me a break if its not written its unwritten that is such an anfair advantage


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Guys and gals, until the major shoot promoters hash out everything and rule out any semblance of "good ole boy" syndrome they will not gain a national following backed by sponsors putting up big cash to make it happen or see national TV. Bowjunky is the best thing that could happen to 3D, but it has brought up a lot of questionable situations that occur whether they are filming or not. I know alot of you guys think its fine and say "why fix it" or "thats the way we have always done it" but those attitudes are horrible for growth and credibility. Until the day comes, when organized archery is REALLY organized, it will be status quo, as-is and ho hum (read never changing for the good or the bad). Archery (3D) will not attain its full potential which limits exposure to the masses and would make it grow putting it on NBC or ESPN for the world to see. Buckmasters indoor shoots are more TV worthy for crying out loud.


----------



## Alpha Burnt

What say you?


----------



## SonnyThomas

Guys and gals, until the major shoot promoters hash out everything and rule out any semblance of "good ole boy" syndrome they will not gain a national following backed by sponsors putting up big cash to make it happen or see national TV.



Alpha Burnt said:


> What say you?


If by the above of your other reply, you're dreaming......You asked.


----------



## Alpha Burnt

In English?


----------



## Alpha Burnt

After reading it a few times, I understand, I think. Dreaming, yes. Possible to make changes or make clear rules for play, possible- not likely but possible. TV time, a dream for me also. National TV time. I would rather watch a 3D match on NBC some afternoon than golf, NASCAR (or any racing),baseball, hockey, football, tennis, volleyball, swimming and the list goes on.


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Alpha Burnt said:


> After reading it a few times, I understand, I think. Dreaming, yes. Possible to make changes or make clear rules for play, possible- not likely but possible. TV time, a dream for me also. National TV time. I would rather watch a 3D match on NBC some afternoon than golf, NASCAR (or any racing),baseball, hockey, football, tennis, volleyball, swimming and the list goes on.


By afternoon, I mean a weekend afternoon. Which leads me to what we are trying to steer away from, drama. Weekday afternoons are for drama and that is precisely where we are at now. When you leave things up to group mentality or individual interpretation too much, that is what causes drama and confusion. Have a rules and regulations book that spells it out, no drama. Have an official on hand to make fair judgments without emotion or bias, no drama. Protesting is a money maker, you must pony up the money to file, then it is reviewed for who knows how long and then you are without immediate closure; ie drama and suspense. A rule infringed upon, penalty assessed and go on, no drama.


----------



## SonnyThomas

Me, you and few hundred would like to see 3D on national TV, but we are dreaming. I think I noted above somewhere, we don't have what the public wants, no flight of the ball, no speed, no noise, no crashes and so forth.... We know what's going on in a 3D tournament, but the wide spread general pubic doesn't.

A new drama is at hand and no one is saying anything. Look down the Posts in this forum - Regions something - It seems the ASA is allowing Regions to qualify for the ASA Classic. No reply has come forth from the ASA. If Mike lets Regions come into the ASA Classic and some Regions member wins a ASA Classic title? Pretty bad if Mike trashes his own members. Someone in the ASA forums stated "it's only for one year." Yep, just like it was nothing.....


----------



## Alpha Burnt

America does want to be pacified and have a sport you can drink at the event, you have a point. Maybe the problem is the generations of Americans that do not appreciate finesse, precision, accuracy, and the satisfaction that follows soberness and hard work. I want the America that appreciates these things back but unlike the newer society, I know I do not always get what I want!


----------



## Hallsway

If this was talked about in some pre shoot pro meeting by the IBO 2 years ago, then it should've been in the rules 1 year ago. IBO screwed that up. They review the rules every year, and everyone goes thru them to see the highlighted changes. The IBO cannot hold shooters acountable for a mention of this sportsmanship rule 2 years ago and think it is gospel.

Put it in the rules, Put the issue to bed.


----------



## hrtlnd164

SonnyThomas said:


> Me, you and few hundred would like to see 3D on national TV, but we are dreaming. I think I noted above somewhere, we don't have what the public wants, no flight of the ball, no speed, no noise, no crashes and so forth.... We know what's going on in a 3D tournament, but the wide spread general pubic doesn't.
> 
> A new drama is at hand and no one is saying anything. Look down the Posts in this forum - Regions something - It seems the ASA is allowing Regions to qualify for the ASA Classic. No reply has come forth from the ASA. If Mike lets Regions come into the ASA Classic and some Regions member wins a ASA Classic title? Pretty bad if Mike trashes his own members. Someone in the ASA forums stated "it's only for one year." Yep, just like it was nothing.....


What is the differance where they qualify? From what I remember there were threads saying that even if you didn't qualify for the Classic that they would not turn you away. So who cares where you qualify or don't qualify, you still have to be an ASA member. Would it be any different if a non qualified shooter came in and won a title?


----------



## SonnyThomas

hrtlnd164 said:


> What is the differance where they qualify? From what I remember there were threads saying that even if you didn't qualify for the Classic that they would not turn you away. So who cares where you qualify or don't qualify, you still *have to be an ASA member*. Would it be any different if a non qualified shooter came in and won a title?


If by the Post/replies you don't have to be a ASA member. Being a Regions member and qualifying at their event is all that's needed to enter the ASA Classic....


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Daniel Boone said:


> Im told it has been done by several over the years including one that filed the protest. If it an issue than rewrite the rules.
> DB


So, at what point should someone that observes a violation of the rules as they understood them be able to file a protest? If they were guilty of a violation and it was not protested does it change anything at all?


----------



## hrtlnd164

SonnyThomas said:


> If by the Post/replies you don't have to be a ASA member. Being a Regions member and qualifying at their event is all that's needed to enter the ASA Classic....


My understanding of it is that if you qualify through Regions for the Classic, you MUST be an ASA member to attend the Classic. A regions membership won't get you into an ASA event and vice-versa.


----------



## sagecreek

hrtlnd164 said:


> My understanding of it is that if you qualify through Regions for the Classic, you MUST be an ASA member to attend the Classic. A regions membership won't get you into an ASA event and vice-versa.


That was my understanding as well.


----------



## SonnyThomas

hrtlnd164 said:


> My understanding of it is that if you qualify through Regions for the Classic, you MUST be an ASA member to attend the Classic. A regions membership won't get you into an ASA event and vice-versa.


At one point that was my understanding, but then ASA denied anything to do with Regions. The ASA Forums crashed and all was lost. Now, one reply gives that "it's been changed since...." As of right now no ASA Official has replied to the Post asking of this Regions question..... I just checked...


----------



## Daniel Boone

Alpha Burnt said:


> So, at what point should someone that observes a violation of the rules as they understood them be able to file a protest? If they were guilty of a violation and it was not protested does it change anything at all?


We have not determine there was a rule broke yet? No one has shown me any rule violation. Apparently four pros who have been shooting IBO for a longtime didn't think there was a rule violation. File the protest anytime you want but be damn sure you know what your filing is written in the rules. My other question is the ones filing didnt even witness the event happen, why didnt that pro file it?
If your going to file it your filing it against ever pro in that group be cause all four shot out of turn. 
DB
DB


----------



## Daniel Boone

Deer Slayer I said:


> give me a break if its not written its unwritten that is such an anfair advantage


What are you saying.

Show me the rule that tells any archer in IBO its Illegal to shoot out of turn? No one has yet to show me that rule.

They dropped the protest so apparently it isnt in the rules.
DB


----------



## gcab

Who cares? Someone thought someone else did something wrong. They filed a protest. So what? There is a committee or board or whatever that decides if a rule is broken or not right? So if no rule broken, then the shooter that got protested won't be affected. If there was a rule broken, then the committee can take care of it. Why is this such a big deal? Why are people so upset that someone thought a rule was broken and said something? Doesn't matter who the shooters are, could be Joe Blow in hc.. so what. If someone sees something that they deem to be a broken rule, then shouldn't they protest? Same as with the rangefinding binoculars, clicking sight after looking through binos, not shooting from stake, pulling arrows before scored, shooting 6 arrows instead of 5, shooting over 60 lbs in fita... whatever the rule is, who cares? I just don't get why some are so against someone saying that a rule has been broken, or filing protests for it. If the protester is wrong, then then are wrong and the committee can take care of that too. But why not follow the rules that are in place, or perceived rule. If this isn't a rule, then the committee will so oh well and no harm done. Thats what they are for. I know in NFAA there is a protest fee that gets paid, so if thats the case with IBO, and it isn't a rule, than thats great.. IBO just made a couple more bucks.


----------



## STRICNINE

Alpha Burnt said:


> Bowjunky is the best thing that could happen to 3D,.


How so? Name people that watch Bowjunky outside of the archery community? I know a bunch of Archers that have no clue what BowJunky is. Is it great for existing tourney archers and new folks that hear about it....sure. Is it the best thing to happen to 3D....nope. The audience is small in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Joseph McCluske

gcab said:


> Who cares? Someone thought someone else did something wrong. They filed a protest. So what? There is a committee or board or whatever that decides if a rule is broken or not right? So if no rule broken, then the shooter that got protested won't be affected. If there was a rule broken, then the committee can take care of it. Why is this such a big deal? Why are people so upset that someone thought a rule was broken and said something? Doesn't matter who the shooters are, could be Joe Blow in hc.. so what. If someone sees something that they deem to be a broken rule, then shouldn't they protest? Same as with the rangefinding binoculars, clicking sight after looking through binos, not shooting from stake, pulling arrows before scored, shooting 6 arrows instead of 5, shooting over 60 lbs in fita... whatever the rule is, who cares? I just don't get why some are so against someone saying that a rule has been broken, or filing protests for it. If the protester is wrong, then then are wrong and the committee can take care of that too. But why not follow the rules that are in place, or perceived rule. If this isn't a rule, then the committee will so oh well and no harm done. Thats what they are for. I know in NFAA there is a protest fee that gets paid, so if thats the case with IBO, and it isn't a rule, than thats great.. IBO just made a couple more bucks.


Finally I agree with something said in this thread. If you could win a buckle or a plaque from gossip I know who would be my choice for the pro ranks.


----------



## AdvanTimberLou

Daniel Boone said:


> What are you saying.
> 
> Show me the rule that tells any archer in IBO its Illegal to shoot out of turn? No one has yet to show me that rule.
> 
> They dropped the protest so apparently it isnt in the rules.
> DB



You have a dog in this fight Dan? 

Personally I think too many people worry about others X counts and should focus on their own game. Amazing the drama created and 99.9% of the people worried on this thread were not even there, let these guys work out their problems, focus on your own game! If people went to a shooting event and were so focused on the rule book and watching others to see if they are violating some written rule, it surely will effect your shooting. Not saying rules are not required but its comical to see people get so dang upset over something that they were not part of but want to keep pounding away at what appears to be a non-issue now.

Oh well, off to practice and if people seen me shoot I doubt a protest would be made!


----------



## Daniel Boone

gcab said:


> Who cares? Someone thought someone else did something wrong. They filed a protest. So what? There is a committee or board or whatever that decides if a rule is broken or not right? So if no rule broken, then the shooter that got protested won't be affected. If there was a rule broken, then the committee can take care of it. Why is this such a big deal? Why are people so upset that someone thought a rule was broken and said something? Doesn't matter who the shooters are, could be Joe Blow in hc.. so what. If someone sees something that they deem to be a broken rule, then shouldn't they protest? Same as with the rangefinding binoculars, clicking sight after looking through binos, not shooting from stake, pulling arrows before scored, shooting 6 arrows instead of 5, shooting over 60 lbs in fita... whatever the rule is, who cares? I just don't get why some are so against someone saying that a rule has been broken, or filing protests for it. If the protester is wrong, then then are wrong and the committee can take care of that too. But why not follow the rules that are in place, or perceived rule. If this isn't a rule, then the committee will so oh well and no harm done. Thats what they are for. I know in NFAA there is a protest fee that gets paid, so if thats the case with IBO, and it isn't a rule, than thats great.. IBO just made a couple more bucks.


Fans care and its news when something like this happens. Many follow pro archery just like any other sport. Usually the news of this spreads quickly.
DB


----------



## Daniel Boone

AdvanTimberLou said:


> You have a dog in this fight Dan?
> 
> Personally I think too many people worry about others X counts and should focus on their own game. Amazing the drama created and 99.9% of the people worried on this thread were not even there, let these guys work out their problems, focus on your own game! If people went to a shooting event and were so focused on the rule book and watching others to see if they are violating some written rule, it surely will effect your shooting. Not saying rules are not required but its comical to see people get so dang upset over something that they were not part of but want to keep pounding away at what appears to be a non-issue now.
> 
> Oh well, off to practice and if people seen me shoot I doubt a protest would be made!


Hey Lou its pro archery and it is bigtime news and effects good friends such as Danny Evans. Yes it a pro sport many follow and have for many years. Were the guys promoting the sport all the time as well with positive posts. I wanted just one person to prove and show me the four archers actually cheated and broke a known rule. 

This is no different than baseball or football and fans want to know.
DB


----------



## AdvanTimberLou

Daniel Boone said:


> Hey Lou its pro archery and it is bigtime news and effects good friends such as Danny Evans. Yes it a pro sport many follow and have for many years. Were the guys promoting the sport all the time as well with positive posts. I wanted just one person to prove and show me the four archers actually cheated and broke a known rule.
> 
> This is no different than baseball or football and fans want to know.
> DB



Thus the reason this site does not have much pro interaction on the threads. 

Too many people getting into their issues and making them their own and demanding answers. 

Seems at times people strive for the drama instead of the positives of an event. 

This isn't big time news either, it's people flinging arrows at targets and an issue came up with the order of shooting. News of this gets out and its a 6,000 view thread. I bet Levi and Danny have put this issue to bed but seems some still demand an answer. 

Just seems more time can be put on other issues that put positive exposure on the sport and let the ones involved in this issue worry over it.


----------



## Joseph McCluske

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Thus the reason this site does not have much pro interaction on the threads.
> 
> Too many people getting into their issues and making them their own and demanding answers.
> 
> Seems at times people strive for the drama instead of the positives of an event.
> 
> This isn't big time news either, it's people flinging arrows at targets and an issue came up with the order of shooting. News of this gets out and its a 6,000 view thread. I bet Levi and Danny have put this issue to bed but seems some still demand an answer.
> 
> Just seems more time can be put on other issues that put positive exposure on the sport and let the ones involved in this issue worry over it.


I couldn't have said it any better myself good job Lou, to many keyboard archers will ruin this site.


----------



## Daniel Boone

AdvanTimberLou said:


> Thus the reason this site does not have much pro interaction on the threads.
> 
> Too many people getting into their issues and making them their own and demanding answers.
> 
> Seems at times people strive for the drama instead of the positives of an event.
> 
> This isn't big time news either, it's people flinging arrows at targets and an issue came up with the order of shooting. News of this gets out and its a 6,000 view thread. I bet Levi and Danny have put this issue to bed but seems some still demand an answer.
> 
> Just seems more time can be put on other issues that put positive exposure on the sport and let the ones involved in this issue worry over it.


I promote the pros better than anyone on this forum and have for many years. I commend AT for allowing discussions of such issues. It something archers want and need to hear. We often learn from threads like this. 

It part of archery and AT a discussion board.

All I asked for is someone to give me the ruling showing what Danny did was a violation in the rules. Never happened because it not in the rules. 

DB
DB


----------



## sagecreek

No rules were broken.

Let's move on.


----------



## 3rdplace

Unfortunately Dan we are not learning anything with this thread. It has become an argument and is only causing animosity between archers. I think it is time to let it die and move on to lying about our 100 yard 2" groups.


----------



## Daniel Boone

3rdplace said:


> Unfortunately Dan we are not learning anything with this thread. It has become an argument and is only causing animosity between archers. I think it is time to let it die and move on to lying about our 100 yard 2" groups.


I agree. Protest was dropped!
DB


----------



## Alpha Burnt

:set1_applaud::set1_applaud:


----------



## SonnyThomas

Alpha Burnt said:


> :set1_applaud::set1_applaud:


Amen.


----------



## baracudamark

The man let down 3 times must shoot the next arrow.
The man who shot the next arrow wasn't the same man.
The shooter who let down should score a zero what's so hard to understand this?


----------



## n2bows

STRICNINE said:


> How so? Name people that watch Bowjunky outside of the archery community? I know a bunch of Archers that have no clue what BowJunky is. Is it great for existing tourney archers and new folks that hear about it....sure. Is it the best thing to happen to 3D....nope. The audience is small in the grand scheme of things.


So, what is the best thing to happen to 3D or archery in general then? Bowjunky is doing more for 3D/Tournament archery than anyone else. And at least they are trying!


----------



## Daniel Boone

baracudamark said:


> The man let down 3 times must shoot the next arrow.
> The man who shot the next arrow wasn't the same man.
> The shooter who let down should score a zero what's so hard to understand this?


Beating a Dead Horse and protest was dropped. Protest was filed for shooting out of turn that you can read in Levi's own words on Bowjunky.com
DB


----------



## Leviticus

HAHAHAHHA...you have no idea what ur talking about.....JAMES1529 ....so I shot a whole day out of order huh....???? were u there no because that has never happened nor have I ever been protested in my career....and I woould love for you to show me on instance where I've made an excuse!....????? I shot out of order once and danny was the one who was so upset and got the ibo to deem shooting out of order unsportsmanlike conduct...If I have to follow the rules then so should every one else...before you randomly start typing lies get your facts straight...


----------



## swbuckmaster

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Leviticus

Well here it is to everyone exactly what happened since no one on here knows what happened at all here it is.....Everyone is saying there isnt a rule...well then why were they gonna dock danny evans points and give chance second place...why because it was found unsportsmanlike which was changed by the pros 2 years ago...they even posted signs all over the ranges...so yes it is a rule...there's no rule that says dont tickle your competitor at full draw but do that and see what happens....DQ...I've never protested anyone nor been protested...Danny Evans is a great guy but he himself said" I knew it was wrong when I did it and it was a bad decision"....I wasnt the only name on the protest there was several names on it..I'm the only one I guess that is willing to take heat over this...I could care less about 3rd place but if you get a rule enforced then of all people you should have to follow and know what the rule is....people are saying I'm a sore loser but I have never said anything but good about people when they beat me and I've never made an excuse...The only reason we dropped the protest is because danny filed an appeal and drug his whole group in the mix and used them for leverage saying "I will take the whole group with me if I have too"....we were not willing to let that happen as Danny was the only one who took the advantage.....So everyone tmorelli, daniel boone all of you who post freely and have no idea whats really going on need to quit trying to be an archerytalk hero and try typing the truth like "we dont know what happened or the situation for sure and I dont have all the answers" instead of trying to stand for something that is wrong!!!! 95% of the pro class told us to stand with the protest and to not drop it because we all know that is wrong and so did that group....everyone can say what they want and think what they want...but at some point we have to enforce the rules especially repeated violations cause God knows the org isnt going to....wheres the line....we all know it was wrong and an unfair advantage...why should we be ok with it...it's our job and its a RULE!!!!!! What we really need is for this entire stupid website to go away where people can get on here and bash people for no reason and hide behind your keyboards and ur nick names like imawesome33# or nooneknowsme77....these moderators on here are pitiful. they let post about religion and everything else on here build up and build up just to help there numbers...they let people openly bash each other and say whatever the heck they want truth or no truth...I'm sorry to the people that actually want to know the truth that you have to rely on this crap which is 99% of the time not even close to the truth...Shame on ARCHERYTALK......and all the people on here that like to stir the pot while your kicked back in your swivel chair eating doritos and laughing....some people take this serious and you aren't the one that should be laughing!!!! What ever happened to archers helping archers...??? This thread isn't helping anyone.... LEVI MORGAN


----------



## silhouette13

johncraddock445 said:


> Little update.... here's what happened... Mccarthy let down 3 times then another archer offered to go ahead and shoot to let him relax.... so the complaint was based upon shooting out of order...
> 
> Sent from my V8000_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2


so this is at least a clear reason for a protest, i like Dan MC and i am sure he intended no harm....BUT someone shot out of order, AND this automaticly puts Dan over time, this DOES give advantage. more time to judge, etc. rules are rules, mistakes are mistakes. that shot should have been scored a miss. whoever took his turn was not out of order if he was next.


----------



## sagecreek

Thanks for posting Levi.


----------



## silhouette13

ahcnc said:


> As I understand it..Shot had to break on the 3rd attempt. No more than 3 let downs....am I wrong?? Just wondering, as I have no dog in this fight.


 you can let down 3 times.dan made no error in this. he did not let down more than max. a 4th would be a miss.the rule infringement was time, the rotation is a judgement call about wether it is in the spirt orf sportsmanship. in a judgement call i will ALWAYS rule infavor of the shooter. Dan is a class act. kindness of letting him relax was the gold pavement to disaster.


----------



## gobblemg

Well said Levi.


----------



## silhouette13

1monstertriumph said:


> Funny how some pros get away with it and others get punished....sure sounds like favoritism and a bunch of crap trying to label one of the best guys out there a cheater. I hope the ibo gets as much negative publicity out of this as possible. Enforcing rules that don't exist....wow! Appears this could be a big boost for Regions Archery!


why would you wish the IBO to get negitive publicity? doesnt that hurt everyone? and if a ruling was made, what was the ruling? no where has anyone on this thread said how it went, or what the appeal was determined to be valid or not. it could be the IBO rules that no RULE was broken for out of order.if it was truly a 2minute violation and the IBO upholds the appeal then the IBO has done its job. Regions can only help things. but running down IBO helps no one.


----------



## CatFan

So, if I understand Levi correctly, Danny Evans was going to make his whole group suffer penalties for shooting out of order when he himself was really the only person who shot out of order. That is not a good way to make friends, especially when they just tried to help you by giving you a chance to regroup after 3 letdowns. Be a man Danny and withdraw yourself from this competition. If you know and admit it was wrong, just man up and withdraw. It will mean much more for your career than the money.


----------



## shootist

CatFan said:


> So, if I understand Levi correctly, Danny Evans was going to make his whole group suffer penalties for shooting out of order when he himself was really the only person who shot out of order. That is not a good way to make friends, especially when they just tried to help you by giving you a chance to regroup after 3 letdowns. Be a man Danny and withdraw yourself from this competition. If you know and admit it was wrong, just man up and withdraw. It will mean much more for your career than the money.


When the group convinced Danny to shoot out of order (because he had let down a couple times and was tired), the whole group then also shot out of order. Danny was the one tied for 2nd, so they only wanted him removed. If you are going to be such a stickler for an unwritten rule, then everybody that broke it had to be included.


----------



## silhouette13

Dv8tion said:


> A shooter has 2 min to shoot. His "clock" starts when he steps up to the stake. Would it not make sense then, that when he left the stake his clock would then stop? Would it not make sense then that the shooter is entitled to use the remainder of his 2 min? So a shooter steps up to the stake and his clock starts he is a 1 min in and hasn't been able to shoot, so he steps back and lets another shooter shoot. The second shooter shoot his arrow and the first shooter steps back up and fires his shot within the remaining 1 min. Would this still be considered a violation? I think that the rules need to be addressed and a solution for this scenario presented and written.


5. Each archer shall be allowed a maximum of two (2) minutes to complete his or her shot. This rule shall operate as follows:
a. Time will begin for the first archer when the previous group clears the target. Time will begin for the next archer when the previous archer releases his or her arrow. YOU as a shooter have nothing to do with the 2minutes, other than getting the shot off and starting the next shooters clock.


----------



## CatFan

shootist said:


> When the group convinced Danny to shoot out of order (because he had let down a couple times and was tired), the whole group then also shot out of order. Danny was the one tied for 2nd, so they only wanted him removed. If you are going to be such a stickler for an unwritten rule, then everybody that broke it had to be included.[/QUOTE
> 
> Understood, but since it doesnt sound like they were part of the original protest, DE was holding them for ransom by filing an additional protest. The pro class is a small close knit group. If what Levi is stating is true DE will quickly find himself on the outside looking in.


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## swbuckmaster

So how many of you are out walking arround with a stop watch? 

I've personally never seen one on a 3d course

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Daniel Boone

shootist said:


> When the group convinced Danny to shoot out of order (because he had let down a couple times and was tired), the whole group then also shot out of order. Danny was the one tied for 2nd, so they only wanted him removed. If you are going to be such a stickler for an unwritten rule, then everybody that broke it had to be included.


Exactly how I was told it happened. I dont see that group of pros purposely cheating anyone! Got to much respect for those guys! 
DB


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## Daniel Boone

Leviticus said:


> Well here it is to everyone exactly what happened since no one on here knows what happened at all here it is.....Everyone is saying there isnt a rule...well then why were they gonna dock danny evans points and give chance second place...why because it was found unsportsmanlike which was changed by the pros 2 years ago...they even posted signs all over the ranges...so yes it is a rule...there's no rule that says dont tickle your competitor at full draw but do that and see what happens....DQ...I've never protested anyone nor been protested...Danny Evans is a great guy but he himself said" I knew it was wrong when I did it and it was a bad decision"....I wasnt the only name on the protest there was several names on it..I'm the only one I guess that is willing to take heat over this...I could care less about 3rd place but if you get a rule enforced then of all people you should have to follow and know what the rule is....people are saying I'm a sore loser but I have never said anything but good about people when they beat me and I've never made an excuse...The only reason we dropped the protest is because danny filed an appeal and drug his whole group in the mix and used them for leverage saying "I will take the whole group with me if I have too"....we were not willing to let that happen as Danny was the only one who took the advantage.....So everyone tmorelli, daniel boone all of you who post freely and have no idea whats really going on need to quit trying to be an archerytalk hero and try typing the truth like "we dont know what happened or the situation for sure and I dont have all the answers" instead of trying to stand for something that is wrong!!!! 95% of the pro class told us to stand with the protest and to not drop it because we all know that is wrong and so did that group....everyone can say what they want and think what they want...but at some point we have to enforce the rules especially repeated violations cause God knows the org isnt going to....wheres the line....we all know it was wrong and an unfair advantage...why should we be ok with it...it's our job and its a RULE!!!!!! What we really need is for this entire stupid website to go away where people can get on here and bash people for no reason and hide behind your keyboards and ur nick names like imawesome33# or nooneknowsme77....these moderators on here are pitiful. they let post about religion and everything else on here build up and build up just to help there numbers...they let people openly bash each other and say whatever the heck they want truth or no truth...I'm sorry to the people that actually want to know the truth that you have to rely on this crap which is 99% of the time not even close to the truth...Shame on ARCHERYTALK......and all the people on here that like to stir the pot while your kicked back in your swivel chair eating doritos and laughing....some people take this serious and you aren't the one that should be laughing!!!! What ever happened to archers helping archers...??? This thread isn't helping anyone.... LEVI MORGAN


Not sure what a archerytalk hero is Levi but wont back up from you ever. I know some of the best pros ever to shoot this game and how they conduct themself on and off the range. Been in this sport of archery allot longer than you and have plenty of friends in the pros ranks that get my respect for what they do. Far as breaking rules bashing a moderator here should and will never be tolerated. Many of us heard both sides of the storys from pros that were there. Danny Evans is a class act and so are the pros that shot in his group. Dont like archerytalk and its members stay away. Danny Evans is one of the most respected pros in the pro ranks and always will be.
DB
DB
DB


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## tmorelli

Leviticus said:


> Well here it is to everyone exactly what happened since no one on here knows what happened at all here it is.....Everyone is saying there isnt a rule...well then why were they gonna dock danny evans points and give chance second place...why because it was found unsportsmanlike which was changed by the pros 2 years ago...they even posted signs all over the ranges...so yes it is a rule...there's no rule that says dont tickle your competitor at full draw but do that and see what happens....DQ...I've never protested anyone nor been protested...Danny Evans is a great guy but he himself said" I knew it was wrong when I did it and it was a bad decision"....I wasnt the only name on the protest there was several names on it..I'm the only one I guess that is willing to take heat over this...I could care less about 3rd place but if you get a rule enforced then of all people you should have to follow and know what the rule is....people are saying I'm a sore loser but I have never said anything but good about people when they beat me and I've never made an excuse...The only reason we dropped the protest is because danny filed an appeal and drug his whole group in the mix and used them for leverage saying "I will take the whole group with me if I have too"....we were not willing to let that happen as Danny was the only one who took the advantage.....So everyone tmorelli, daniel boone all of you who post freely and have no idea whats really going on need to quit trying to be an archerytalk hero and try typing the truth like "we dont know what happened or the situation for sure and I dont have all the answers" instead of trying to stand for something that is wrong!!!! 95% of the pro class told us to stand with the protest and to not drop it because we all know that is wrong and so did that group....everyone can say what they want and think what they want...but at some point we have to enforce the rules especially repeated violations cause God knows the org isnt going to....wheres the line....we all know it was wrong and an unfair advantage...why should we be ok with it...it's our job and its a RULE!!!!!! What we really need is for this entire stupid website to go away where people can get on here and bash people for no reason and hide behind your keyboards and ur nick names like imawesome33# or nooneknowsme77....these moderators on here are pitiful. they let post about religion and everything else on here build up and build up just to help there numbers...they let people openly bash each other and say whatever the heck they want truth or no truth...I'm sorry to the people that actually want to know the truth that you have to rely on this crap which is 99% of the time not even close to the truth...Shame on ARCHERYTALK......and all the people on here that like to stir the pot while your kicked back in your swivel chair eating doritos and laughing....some people take this serious and you aren't the one that should be laughing!!!! What ever happened to archers helping archers...??? This thread isn't helping anyone.... LEVI MORGAN


Glad you spoke up on it. I'm generally OK with all of it and I'll even take my lashes for my role despite the fact that only one side/version of the story is being told at the moment. It seems basically accurate but is obviously missing some key points and context. Admittedly, I'm a bit surprised that my few words on this thread got under your skin. It must be your assumption that every one of them was about you.

On the IBO review/rules/signage..... Was that or was that not about/involving you shooting out of order? It also seems that this is common practice... so the timing for making a stink about it is suspect. That's the basis of my concern/surprise that you wouldn't simply choose to "stay out of the limelight" on this occasion and let others handle it. But it honestly seems like you're going out of your way to get in on the fight (or were) and then to fall on the sword.

As I've said, I've got a lot of respect for you and your talent and how I think you try to use it. As you're well aware, your success has made you a figurehead at minimum and with that comes expectations..... reasonable or not. I guess mine is for you to chose your battles wisely.

Tony Morelli

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Rolo

tmorelli said:


> only one side/version of the story is being told at the moment. It seems basically accurate but is obviously missing some key points and context.
> 
> On the IBO review/rules/signage..... Was that or was that not about/involving you shooting out of order? It also seems that this is common practice...


Condensed the quote, simply cuz I don't have a dog in the rest of the fight, and don't care that much...but...

I bet it won't happen again, at least for awhile. :shade: That's a good thing. :thumbs_up

If it is/was a common practice, that is bad, and raises 'legitimacy' questions IMO. If it isn't, then the whole issue, is at least arguably warranted. And, the whole group allowed it too. :sad: Don't know, because the details (at least some of them) of THIS bru ha ha remain unknown. And, with the 'truth' generally being somewhere in the middle...

Hopefully though, this minor turmoil will prevent future ones...another good thing. :teeth:


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## Leviticus

Yes 3 years ago I shot out of order once...in a tournament....thats when this was common practice among pros....there was no rule about it nor had it been addressed in any way...at that point I was called every name in the book and allot of the pros felt that I should have been punished and maybe I should have...but the IBO had never even mentioned it to be even frowned upon...at that pojint IBO said very clearly in letters and signs every 10 targets that this act was strictly prohibited from this point on and would be considered unsportsmanlike conduct from there on out! Being that Danny was the one who felt cheated that weekend he of all people should've and said himself knew better when he did it....99% of the pros practiced this before hand but that was before it was made a rule....I used to drive 70 on a road near my house when it was 70 mph speed limit now its 55 and u cant come and do 70 just because people used to! You will get a ticket!... Danny said he was wrong but for some reason wasn't willing to take the heat! I used to have allot of respect for Danny and I have asked him personally to reply to this thread and tell the truth of the story....I was approached by many of the pros that witnessed the incident and was incouraged to step up with them and do the right thing...funny story is...none of them are here now and I'm stuck defending myself....which is fine I will stand for what I know is right....I am great friends with every one that was in that group that day...and get this one of the names on that protest was from a shooter in that group...why???..because they realized they had given danny an unfair advantage....The IBO tried to do the right thing and only doc danny 5 points...He refused and I wont quote him word for word yet in hopes he will make an appearance and I wont have to...long story short If WE didnt drop the protest danny was gonna take the whole group down with him....Any way I love this sport and the guys that shoot it...and I'm not gonna do something that I believe is right then run and hide and act like nothing ever happened ...I'll tell anyone who wants to know the truth...Not one pro will tell u any different than I just did because thats exactly what happened and how it came about...and Dan C I dont know why you dont like me and havn't for a while now...you act like such an expert but yet no one can see why...you're probly trying to get me kicked off AT right now which wont be the end of the world...I'm sorry for whatever I did that made you always take the other side no matter the situation...by the way isn't a moderator supposed to be unbiased? I apologize to those of you who may think I'm a sore loser because that is not the case...see I dont take any credit for any success I've ever had or any I will have in the future...Every good thing cometh from above!...I'm not in full control so I can't be mad at someone elses success...I do my best and I'm thankful for what God has given me but at the same time I wont be pushed around or stand back and let someone knowingly cheat the game...We've all worked to hard to let that happen....Once again I wish all of you the best including Danny...He's a great archer...sometimes theres more than just admitting you wrong, sometimes you have to except the consequences! Levi


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## x-cutter

This needed to happen because it is not fair to change the order just help someone out. That is why we draw orders and the breaks are the breaks. I dont like to encourage the IBO too much because then they adopt stupid rules from the NFAA like the 3 letdown rule when they already have a rule they dont enforce. Id like to see someone letdown and shoot 3 times inside the time limit allowed by the IBO. The more simple and logical way would be to say you can have 1 letdown. It's enforceable by the group without anyone being a prick and the shooters cant abuse it. I was actually the one that first brought it up because I witnessed it happening and am sick of it happening so I asked to see if there was rule as I thought this had already been handled. Rules are not good unless they are enforceable and have a clear penalty for the infraction. Leaving things open to the IBO under "we can interperut it anyway we like" is fundamentally bad. 
I dont think he should have been offered a penaly for atime infraction when that wasnt the issue in question. If you are going to penalize people for time infractions then you do it to everyone equally....that'll be a cold day in h...!


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## NoDeerInIowa

Thank you for posting Levi. I appreciate you taking time to come on here and explain. I, for one, love the way you approach the game and give credit to the One who has given you the ability to do what you do and be where you are. God Bless.

Team Whack- Sees NoDeer


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## RickT

Thank you Levi. Archery needs Pro's and amatuers alike to stand up and do what is right to abide by all the rules all the time.


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## X10ring

Entire stupid website to go away? ArcheryTalk heros? Bashing the mods? I think ur way outa line on this one i used tolook up to u a lot... Morelli and DB help archers on this sight almost on a daily occasion, pretty much the opposite of what u do. Ur a great shooter and I respect u for ur skills but will never go down as one of the greats in my book the greats are class acts ALL the time


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## X10ring

I agree ur following the rules and standing up for them but geeze...


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## shootist

Leviticus said:


> Yes 3 years ago I shot out of order once...in a tournament....thats when this was common practice among pros....there was no rule about it nor had it been addressed in any way...at that point I was called every name in the book and allot of the pros felt that I should have been punished and maybe I should have...but the IBO had never even mentioned it to be even frowned upon...at that pojint IBO said very clearly in letters and signs every 10 targets that this act was strictly prohibited from this point on and would be considered unsportsmanlike conduct from there on out! Being that Danny was the one who felt cheated that weekend he of all people should've and said himself knew better when he did it....99% of the pros practiced this before hand but that was before it was made a rule....I used to drive 70 on a road near my house when it was 70 mph speed limit now its 55 and u cant come and do 70 just because people used to! You will get a ticket!... Danny said he was wrong but for some reason wasn't willing to take the heat! I used to have allot of respect for Danny and I have asked him personally to reply to this thread and tell the truth of the story....I was approached by many of the pros that witnessed the incident and was incouraged to step up with them and do the right thing...funny story is...none of them are here now and I'm stuck defending myself....which is fine I will stand for what I know is right....I am great friends with every one that was in that group that day...and get this one of the names on that protest was from a shooter in that group...why???..because they realized they had given danny an unfair advantage....The IBO tried to do the right thing and only doc danny 5 points...He refused and I wont quote him word for word yet in hopes he will make an appearance and I wont have to...long story short If WE didnt drop the protest danny was gonna take the whole group down with him....Any way I love this sport and the guys that shoot it...and I'm not gonna do something that I believe is right then run and hide and act like nothing ever happened ...I'll tell anyone who wants to know the truth...Not one pro will tell u any different than I just did because thats exactly what happened and how it came about...and Dan C I dont know why you dont like me and havn't for a while now...you act like such an expert but yet no one can see why...you're probly trying to get me kicked off AT right now which wont be the end of the world...I'm sorry for whatever I did that made you always take the other side no matter the situation...by the way isn't a moderator supposed to be unbiased? I apologize to those of you who may think I'm a sore loser because that is not the case...see I dont take any credit for any success I've ever had or any I will have in the future...Every good thing cometh from above!...I'm not in full control so I can't be mad at someone elses success...I do my best and I'm thankful for what God has given me but at the same time I wont be pushed around or stand back and let someone knowingly cheat the game...We've all worked to hard to let that happen....Once again I wish all of you the best including Danny...He's a great archer...sometimes theres more than just admitting you wrong, sometimes you have to except the consequences! Levi


Were there signs posted this tournament, or even this season saying this is against the rules? (if so, then my feelings on this subject change significantly) When it is omitted from 21 pages of rules, it is hard to swallow that it is such a serious rule. Also, knowing that the penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is so severe, (dq and possible indefinite suspension) is that what you felt he deserved? You also did not mention that it was somebody in his group that suggested he let them go ahead after he had to let down twice. This doesn't sound like anybody deliberately cheated to me or acted unsportsmanlike. Yet you, Chance Beauboff and Michael Pollard (who was in his group) all decided that he deserved to be dq'd and banned for his actions. Where was Michael's concern when he allowed this to happen in the first place? It is obvious to me that none of the group did anything they thought was wrong at the time. So protesting for unsportsmanlike conduct seems a bit ridiculous. And certainly if one is guilty, they all were guilty.


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## x-cutter

A little arguing now and then is healthy and good. Its good to challenge the establishement sometimes. It all worked out in the end and hopefully we will get some positive change becasue of it. Levi is about as classy of a guy as I have ever competed against and I dont think anything was done vidictively. We just want good solid rules that are enforceable so that we have the fairest competitiion possible


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## glennx

Way to go Levi and Tim for posting up.


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## NoDeerInIowa

glennx said:


> Way to go Levi and Tim for posting up.


X2

Team Whack- Sees NoDeer


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## arrowblaster

Thanks for posting Levi. I, for one, think it's time to close this and move on.


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## glennx

The big problem is from people who don't shoot the IBO or don't like the IBO.


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## Daniel Boone

arrowblaster said:


> Thanks for posting Levi. I, for one, think it's time to close this and move on.


I hope the mods lock this one and let it go. Time to move on!
DB


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## Joseph McCluske

glennx said:


> Way to go Levi and Tim for posting up.


I'm with you Glen, good job Levi and Tim, you hit the nail on the head that's why their upset. Keep shooting well you have the respect of the archers who shoot more than they type...


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## mocheese

good to hear from some of the pros on here and I don't feel they are out of line at all. All of us regular guys can say whatever we want on here and they should be able to as well. Obviously they know more about it than we do!! JW


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## J Whittington

Glennx people are just tired of so many years of the IBO's attitude of " Where doing you a favor by having the events" mentality. They(ibo) are disrespecting vendors, not following their on rules, etc... Don't be to surprised to see less vendors next year and a better than average possibility of losing sponsors.




glennx said:


> The big problem is from people who don't shoot the IBO or don't like the IBO.


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## Alpha Burnt

Daniel Boone said:


> I hope the mods lock this one and let it go. Time to move on!
> DB



Quit stirring it and the smell will go down...Like a moderator told you two days ago.


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## 1monstertriumph

Can you have pollard post his side of the story Levi? How well was it gonna look for him and Rhinehart if he got banned from IBO was that a factor in this? But like you said we will never know the complete truth bc it was pieced together by 100 different accounts of the story. If you've known this practice wasn't right I would of thought you to be the role model and never do it yourself whether it be 1 target or 10... You didn't man up and take a deduction for taking to much time on the stake and costing a fellow competitor thousands of dollars and his first pro win. Danny must have been the 1% of the class that never heard of it happening back then bc I know he couldn't believe what he heard. So I'm assuming your percentage is way off on that. Is it true they let somebody else do it this year but it wasn't protested? Just seems like Danny was hung out to dry.......


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## Alpha Burnt

IF this call was made by an official, this would be a non-issue. If my aunt had a ding-dong she would be my uncle, so...


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## Fire Archer

Thanks for posting Levi. Seems to me that Levi was one of the guys that stood up and gave the IBO down the road for Danny last year when he didn't get his award at an awards ceremony for his first pro win. All the pros I have ever talked to are as down to earth as they can be. Why do people want to sit and bash these guys? Let them and the IBO hash it out. In the end, 99% of us on here couldn't beat any of the top pros even if they spotted us some points. Keep your head up Levi, stand up for what you think is right and go win another World championship.


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## Daniel Boone

Alpha Burnt said:


> Quit stirring it and the smell will go down...Like a moderator told you two days ago.


Not sure who made you a mod to tell anyone here what they should do! Lou and myself are friends and we have no issues what so ever. I think you need to leave the mod stuff to them.
DB


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## Alpha Burnt

Nobody made me a moderator, I did not ban you. Was Lou kidding with you in his posts, when he told you to drop it? I did not read that into them. Who made you the one who decides when a post should be locked, "time to move on"? I will not back down from you DB! Kidding, but not kidding.


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## Daniel Boone

Alpha Burnt said:


> Nobody made me a moderator, I did not ban you. Was Lou kidding with you in his posts, when he told you to drop it? I did not read that into them. Who made you the one who decides when a post should be locked, "time to move on"? I will not back down from you DB! Kidding, but not kidding.


I made a suggestion to lock it down, maybe thats your idea of stirring the pot. Worry about what you post.

If you want to ask Lou he can be pmed. I dont talk for LOU!
DB


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## Alpha Burnt

That is alright, I PM'd you.


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## Outback Man

Alpha Burnt said:


> If my aunt had a ding-dong she would be my uncle


That might be the best post in in this whole thread...


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## jimb

that was funny, he let down a couple times and was tired. I've never forced a shot because I had already let down 3 times and I had to shoot.


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## Padgett

There is nothing wrong with voicing your thoughts and standing up for your beliefs, I watch my wife the prosecutor in my county i live in fight every day for what she believes is right. Even though some judges or preachers or deacons or business owners try to convince her that men who rape their little boy shouldn't go to prison because he was seduced by the little 7 year old kid and his revealing clothes.

My wife explained it to me and it really makes sense, bad people do bad things and they are masters at making good people feel guilty for what they did. They lie and then lie some more and yes they are going to sleep where good people couldn't sleep acting like that.
My wife put it to me the best when she said that bad people are masters of doing bad things and trying


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## Padgett

Sorry had trouble with my phone.


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## N BROOKS

Wow! Up to 8 pages... and I didn't think anyone ever cared about what happened to the pros or what they were doing or gave any validation to their existence..... well, you know.... since we don't have to "buy" anything and have things "catered" to us.... hehehehe! I'm just joking around so keep your shirts on... and just for the record, I still spend a lot of money every year on archery equipment..... and I get it at the best place in the world.. Lancaster Archery Supply... now that's what a real pro does... "PROmote"!!! hahaha!

To own up to participation in the whole ore deal... I was involved... I suggested, as well as the other two in my group, to shoot the target first. He had drawn and let down twice. I, knowing that this was a big shot for him and seeing as it was the last target for the tournament for us and was a turkey at about 40-42 yards, wanted him to give his best effort and make a good shot. Turkeys are tough. As so are many other targets on the course. But I will certainly say and explicitly emphasize that I did not know there was a rule for shooting out of order. As there is NOT! That being said, of course we know that giving him a breather during this rotation is somewhat of an advantage. That's why I offered... he is my peer (not teammate or shooting buddy or anything else) and friend. As are all the pros we shoot with each weekend (which is getting less and less btw). I wanted to see him succeed and do well. He has worked hard for his accomplishments. I'm not saying that everyone else hasn't worked hard for what they accomplish... just stating an obvious fact about any pro archer that reaches the top 3. But you must consider this.... What if he had glanced off an arrow in the ten ring... That happens many times!!! and it sucks!!! What if he aims better on a target that doesn't have a nock shining for him... I know I personally execute shots better when I'm arrow free in the target... So maybe I did it to gain an advantage?... I can be an attorney and spend days right here litigating the hows and whys and what ifs.. But the fact of the matter is this... I offered to give him a breather so he could make a good effort.... Plain and simple. Did he accept? yes. Did we discuss it amongst the group if there was a rule against it? Yes. Briefly. Enough to conclude there was no rule against it. I shot. Another shooter fired. And then Danny. Did he go over the "2 min rule"... yes.. did any of the rest of us go over our time limit the rest of the day? yes.. I'm convinced there isn't a shooter on our range that doesn't at some point. Was there an official there to give a warning or a group waiting on us? No. it was our last target. Did anyone in the group police the time limit? No. Was a protest filed siting a time violation? No. It was regarding shooting out of turn in order to gain an advantage, thus, unsportsmanlike conduct. Has there ever been a protest filed of this sort before? No. Has there ever been a "fuss" about this type of circumstance before? yes. to my knowledge it was 2 years ago in OH regarding Levi shooting out of order and shooting a CRAZY awesome score and coming back to win the tournament and Triple Crown. Who would have created a fuss over it? Someone in Levi's group? Levi says Danny Evans made a fuss over it with the IBO so much that they posted signs at the IBO World Championship concerning order and it being seen as "Unsportsmanlike conduct". When that occurred was a protest filed? no you idiot... I just said this was the first time anyone ever filed a protest regarding this type of issue... LISTEN!! So Levi didn't lose his placings or anything?... NO!! Because a protest was not filed... (you see how things can get heated real quickly... I'm getting mad at myself) Ok ok... So why then is Danny being docked 5 points over violation of a 2 min rule when a protest wasn't filed for that? Well i hate to try an answer for the IBO because I'm not a director or officer... but I will tell you what Gene Bihler said. Gene said that they didn't want to rule in favor of unsportsmanlike conduct because the consequences could be very severe, as much as losing your membership for a year and DQ. When a protest is filed, it opens up the entire events transpiring at the time of the infraction. This is how they determined that he was guilty of going over his two min. Because he went to the shooting stake (thus his time began) drew and let down twice. Then let others shoot out of turn so his time would have expired. So instead of DQing and making him lose his membership they decided this was a favorable decision. So is that when they Danny appealed the decision? Yes. After they made a ruling on the protest to dock him 5 points for 2 min infraction. So why did Danny appeal this? Because I told him that if he was guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct by shooting out of order, I was guilty as well and I will gladly take the same punishment as he was possibly going to receive if the IBO ruled that way. I didn't feel it fair that he go down alone for an infraction where the whole group participated. So I asked the question, "why wasn't I protested?" It became personal to me at that point. It wasn't very personal to me until I saw that I was guilty but not protested. Then I automatically thought it was because my score wasn't higher than theirs. How could I think anything else until I realized the entire situation? Then I was reminded of 2 years ago and the situation with Levi... So then I wonder, "why would Chance file a protest?" I knew he was tied with Danny so i guess that's it. He feels cheated... Does he have a right? I guess he does... He shot all of his targets in the group order for that day to my knowledge. Has he ever had anyone shoot a target for him out of order at any other tournament? I'm not 100% sure, but I'd say yes. He told me afterwords that it has been done for him before. I can see why he feels cheated but why would he file a protest for something that he is guilty of in the past? Well... maybe he was ready for this type of action to stop even though he has been a participant. I don't know why he did... but I do know why Levi filed it. Really? Was it to gain a position? Does he secretly hate Danny? No... none of those. It was because he felt like something had to be done. He felt like if anyone should follow a shooting order that it should be the man that caused a stink about it 2 years ago. He even said after he filed the protest that his stomach was all tore up... like he wasn't comfortable with doing it and hated what might become of it. Did he think the protest through real well? I mean, did he realize when he filed he could jeopardize the whole group of shooters and not just Danny? No. He didn't. I think he wanted to see what the IBO would do but he also wanted to see some integrity and admission of guilt. You see... I know Levi really well. Believe it or not, he feels like he is constantly under the microscope with his actions. He's no stranger to being accused. He wins a lot! And when you win that much everyone develops an opinion of you, good or bad. He has done things that we are all guilty of when it comes to breaking rules. Time limits, out of shooting order (again, there is no rule for that, just an IBO implication), not touching the shooting stake, probably used a cell phone on the range, husband and wife cheating, etc. etc... and he feels like most of the time everyone else gets away with small infractions but when its him people make a bigger deal about it because he wins. For those things I say "welcome to being a champion"... but what we have to keep in mind is he is human. And therein lies the issue. When you are an authority and dealing with people, you have to use good ol' fashion common sense. First, if we as professional archers truly policed our peer groups by the book we would have protest filed every weekend... It's true... watch bowjunky videos and you will see it. We break lots of rules. But just because I have a range finder in my shooting chair doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to pull it out and use it during the competition... but its a rule and I have broke it.. And is it a crime if I use my phone and check my text messages and see how my sick daughter is doing at home while I'm away trying to earn a living?... I've broke that rule. But the IBO shouldn't have to have a watchdog on every corner. And we as professionals have a duty to our peers to make the competition as fair as possible. But within reason and respectfully. Upholding integrity. And we require the same from the officials that organize the events. We are not just shooting for belt buckles. We are shooting for thousands of dollars as well as job security. Secondly, the rules need well written, followed within reason using common sense and upheld consistently. This is where Danny feels hung out to dry... He feels he is the victim of unfair ruling because the only other issue in the past that occurred of this nature was not punished by anything other than a verbal "don't do it again"... but technically the difference is the first time this issue came up 2 years ago no official protest was filed. So there is a difference... but he thinks he should receive a "don't do it again" tongue lashing and proceed to the podium for a possible 2nd or 3rd place finish. And he also thinks it's strange that they ruled in favor of a 2 min violation rather than the unsportsmanlike conduct protest. Either way he loses a podium finish and a great deal of money. So does he feel like he should lay down and just take the punishment? No... because it's a ruling. Does he want to take the whole group down with him and cost them their membership and DQ them as well because according to IBO the entire group will be subject to ruling once the appeal was made? No he doesn't want to do that but I have said I feel guilty if he is guilty so I gave him my blessing to fight it if he felt like he needed to... I don't know what the other two in the group said to him but I know he spoke to one of them on the phone about it. Does Levi and Chance feel cheated? Yes... Do they have a right to feel that way? Yes. Should they have filed a protest? wo wo!! now you are asking my opinion... not a true or false statement... they had a right to do it... But should they have?.... That is where I leave it to the individual... you see... we are all people who are made up differently. I don't eat my apples in the traditional way.. I go stem first, top down... not around. 

I see both sides on this one... and I don't blame the IBO either... even though I don't understand how you make a ruling on something that is not part of the official written protest just so you don't have to make a serious consequence towards the individual...or at least that is the way it seems... I know to you it may seem like giving him 5 point deduction may be a lesser punishment but to him it doesn't feel that way... it feels like injustice.. But I do want you (the IBO) to know that I am new to protests and their investigations so I have to concede to your procedures of ruling, but I still don't understand. And I dp appreciate how well you listened to our concerns during this time... I thought your boys did good Bryan Marcum... they listened better than ever... I hope and believe we will see some good things come from this. Like, I bet we have a new shooting order rule for 2014.... But what happens at the next event when I purposely shoot out of order because there is no rule on it and don't go over my time limit?... we still got the World Championship on the docket. You should seriously adopt a new method of making rules instead of waiting until the fall board meeting to get it instated... Something needs to happen immediately about this issue. But the thing I hate most of all is that so many speak when they know nothing of the events other than hearsay... therefore spreading more hearsay and gossip, speculation and rumors... and not only speak and know nothing of the events but don't compete as a PMR shooter and have no real vested interest other than gossip and keeping up with the PMR happenings... but wait, that is what open forums are for right?... I don't have to like it but that is really how it is... and then again, I'm guilty of that as well though... So should I just over look that with a slap on the wrist or protest my actions so I get serious punishment for my doings. Maybe we should ask ourselves this question?... Am I doing unto others as I would have them do unto me? Wow! 8 pages and counting.... Its a good thing I couldn't go to sleep tonight... I might not have ever gotten this written.


The one thing that really gets me about all of this is I agree with x-cutter... sometimes a little arguing is good for the group. See y'all at the next one and hope we get a good group


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## Trykon Mike

Thanks Nathan, I am done with this thread.


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## NYS REP

As always Nathan, a true professional!!!!! Thank-you for your full explanation, hope all works out in Danny's favor!!!


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## Garceau

Thank you Nathan....as the originator of the thread you have added a new level of integrity to the content. I surely appreciate everything you just said.

Thank you to Levi and Tim as well......

I guess i should have figured the thread would go this way, guilty of looking for a little excitement as everyone. But at no time did i start it to bring anyone down. Hence the reason i havent had anything to add.

Thank you again

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## southpaw3d

good job Nathan , well said. I'm happy to see not just the average Joe's on here, that get raked over the coals, the Pro's get it too........so to speak. Like I said last year, this site is going to be the downfall of the IBO and 3D archery, everyone seems to have a oppinion, even if they don't shoot tournaments, or have anything to do with the issue at hand, a bunch of armchair archers. Unless you are directly involved, you should keep your NEGATIVE comments to yourself. This issue got blown way out of hand, just like my and a few other archer's situation last year. These guys rely on this sport to make a living, so they had alot more to lose. And I'm sure this site had some sort of an influence to the outcome, the IBO is tired of looking bad to the public, it's just a shame it had to be at someone's expense.


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## Bucks

I hate this stuff... There is something seriously wrong when the results are determined in the board room over an irrelevant "infraction" instead of on the field of play. Imagine Peyton Manning getting a Super Bowl touchdown called back for littering because his towel fell off. The sad thing is some people would be happy because it was Peyton and they do not like him.

My thoughts:
If the protest was filed for "out of order" then that's the scope of the investigation, like a search warrant.
If in fact someone filed a ticky-tack protest just to make a point or out of spite, they need to grow up already.


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## genohuh

wow this is ridiculous grown men!!! people are saying Danny was hung out to dry? well if he even admitted he was wrong but won't comment on it and Levi does, who's really hung out to dry? it use to not be a rule now it is a rule so everyone get over it.. only thing I have a problem with and it's none of my business, if someone really wants to hurt others in the group that they are shooting in just to get satisfaction of his own doings.. just my opinion and no one elses..(Gene Martin)


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## carlosii

i do agree with Levi Morgan in that there are many posters on here who hide behind their keyboard using phony names. too often they are the ones doing the bashing and stirring the pot...just like we've seen several times within the 9 pages posted to this thread do date.

i've enjoyed the opportunity to shoot with several of the pros, men and women, and have yet to find one that i wouldn't mind spending time with on the range. the format of the ASA has afforded me my chances to spend time with these folks and learn from their experiences. spending time with them on the team shoots or on the practice range, however, does not mean i'm friends, in fact they wouldn't know me if i dropped dead in front of them. that also means i have not earned the right to put myself into the middle of business affairs.

i would never presume to inject myself into any situations involving disputes between or among them. their problems are not my problems and their business is not my business. i would be seriously offended if they were to stick their nose into my problems or my business.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


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## John-in-VA

Thank you Levi and Nathan for taking the time out of your busy schedules to come on here and say what really happened.

I for one dont put much faith in what I read on here most of the time .I have been checking back on this one just to see what really happened .From someone that was there ,Now I know.

Both of you amaze me with how well you shoot.

I shot the team shoot in KY this year .Nathan was on our range and shoot 7=12's on a 47.5 yrd mule deer .

We only had one pro and he had to shoot the same target for everyone .He was a great guy to talk to and he also took time to answer any questions we asked .

It was a pleasure shooting with him even if it was only one target.


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## TRIPLETT

Nathan
Very good post. I liked the way you explained the way everything went down. I have been shooting archery for a very long time and I have seen a lot of different things happen over the years. Saying that, the IBO has (written rules) that all of us are required to follow. You notice I said (Written rules). As you said, your group discussed it among yourselfs and felt there was no (written rule) against it. That is what groups are suppose to do and I fell your group done it the right way. Now, just so you know I am not a PRO, just a joe and very happy where I am at  To me if a protest was filed for shooting out of order and there is no ( written rule) against it than there is no protest. Give the money back to whoever filed and tell them ( at this time) there is no (written rule) against shooting out of order. As far as the 2 min rule goes, if there was no protest filed and/or no warning given (during the shoot) than to me there is no violation. I'm not saying it's right I am just saying that was not what was protested so it should not be ruled on unless there was a protest and/ or a official on site to give a warning at the time it happened. I think this is a learning thing for all shooters to remember but that is all it is, a learning thing. Like I said these are my opinions and I am sure I will get taken to task over them  Shoot well at the Worlds and HAVE FUN!!
Lonnie Triplett
State rep----- (For Now)


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## bhtr3d

Garceau said:


> Thank you Nathan....as the originator of the thread you have added a new level of integrity to the content. I surely appreciate everything you just said.
> 
> Thank you to Levi and Tim as well......
> 
> I guess i should have figured the thread would go this way, guilty of looking for a little excitement as everyone. But at no time did i start it to bring anyone down. Hence the reason i havent had anything to add.
> 
> Thank you again
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


So, at the classic....can we throw water at you....and make you go get everyones arrows from the practice bags... That's a good punishment....for what..I dunno, but still sounds good none the less


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## Kstigall

Thanks Nathan for the details. Personally I was curious about the circumstances of "the event" only to see how the IBO handled it as an organization. They don't have a great track record for handling "issues". I know it is _not_ a Pro issue but I am of the opinion that letting buddies shoot together in national IBO tournaments is a HUGE flaw.

Thanks Levi for your feed back. A public internet forum will be abused by many folks. Some folks are simply jerks and an internet forum is a good place for these folks to "express" themselves. BUT I feel confident that ArcheryTalk's positives far out weigh it's negatives. I frequently meet people through ArcheryTalk that are interested in exploring archery and/or competition archery. Each year there are many folks that learn your name and see your accomplishments because of ArcheryTalk........ A lot of folks recognize Reo Wilde and Rodger Willet's name because of ArcheryTalk. 

Thanks goes out to Gillingham for his input.

I'm actually glad to see the issue of shooting out of order precisely to benefit an archer being brought forth. If the big guys do it you know it's rampant within the amateur ranks. Especially within the IBO where buddies shoot together (amateur classes) and frequently are out of sight of other groups!!!! Getting this issue settled makes the game better.

On the topic of ArcheryTalk .......
I strongly believe the LAS Classic took off so quickly because of ArcheryTalk. I know I learned a LOT through ArcheryTalk when I decided during the '04 bow season that I really needed to get my shot back to a higher level. The next thing I know I'm at the 2006 LAS Classic watching and studying, for many hour,s some of the best archers in the world shoot. I knew who N. Brooks, Chance, Reo, McCarthy, M. Braden, Gellenthien, Cousins, Gillingham, Scott Starnes and many others were because of ArcheryTalk. I studied in detail their stances, releases, anchor, grip, bow arm, draw arm, draw length, grip on the release, follow through and head placement and their approach to the line. I even studied their body language and demeanor while they were competing AND while they were practicing and warming up. At the end of the day ArcheryTalk has been more helpful than hurtful to archery. 

I have been critical of some Pro's actions over the years. I've been critical of how the NFAA is organized and manages tournaments. I've been a big critic of how the IBO manages their tournaments at least at the amateur level. I have to admit I don't like some of the comments I have made or how I handled some situations!!!

To the Pro archers.........
Your archery skills are amazing. Most of you truly amaze me with your ability to handle pressure! Please, don't let the jerks of the internet, at times I may be one, stop you from interacting with the rest of the ArcheryTalk members.


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## carlosii

bhtr3d said:


> So, at the classic....can we throw water at you....and make you go get everyones arrows from the practice bags... That's a good punishment....for what..I dunno, but still sounds good none the less


so now you're wantin' somebody to do your fetchin' for you...get a Labrador, Tim. train him well...you can do it, i know you can. then you can sit on your stool and take a rest.


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## genohuh

sorry when i posted about others hurting people in their group i wasnt necessarily talking about Danny. ive seen many times the Group taking a very long time to shoot. so long that it puts the group behind them in their Chairs for a bit and the group of head of them 2 Targets ahead. all because of one person. our group asked the Range official if he could speed them up. the response was one that blames the whole group


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## Daniel Boone

Thanks to all the pros that gave there honest opinions here.
My hopes is IBO write this rule in the books next year! 

Good luck at the Classic to all.
DB

DB


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## Garceau

bhtr3d said:


> So, at the classic....can we throw water at you....and make you go get everyones arrows from the practice bags... That's a good punishment....for what..I dunno, but still sounds good none the less


For what? I asked a question, I shared very limited information that I had and dont recall every making any assumptions or comments regarding others. I didnt even know whom was involved........besides how many others have had 3 well known pros chime in on their threads?

Besides Im not going to the Classic at this point.


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## tmorelli

Garceau said:


> Besides Im not going to the Classic at this point.


Wait.......... what!!!???


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## sagecreek

I wish the pros would post more often. Maybe not under thes circumstances. I love reading what they have to say.


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## silhouette13

excellent post Nathan. 

i like the fire that Levi shows and that he has a strong conviction. a little heat is good for getting the progress pot a boiling. i hope to meet some of the pros at the Worlds.

some change is good, some is not but change is gonna happen.

PS i like Dave Cousins better fat and angry! not trim and nice. just saying for the sake of sayin'
irrelevant for sure but as Nathan said, that is what open forums are for.


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## SonnyThomas

To all those who were involved in one manner or another and came forth here, I thank you. 

I don't know.... I asked more a than few times. When issues come up, why doesn't some one start a petition to clear up or change the situation? I think the last I asked, and I think it was DB and the Bow Novice class. Me, I like rules followed and states overruling national rules just doesn't set well with me. ASA member that I am I offered to sigh a petition pertaining to Bow Novice. I'm not looking it up, but if the petition was to remove Bow Novice, give a time limit for being in Bow Novice or establishing a score number, within reason, I'd sign it. 

I don't know why I do, but I stand up for things others haven't. Over passed 8 or 9 years; I publicly shamed the IAA for being so rock wall hard on a newly signed up member. Tried to get input from those I represented and then nailed in a IAA meeting. Someone raised the roof, can't remember who, but a Questionaire to the IAA members did come about. Same meeting I demanded the revised Constitution viewed that have been denied to the IAA members. I got it and so did the IAA members, but thanks to the then Great Lakes Councilman.
I went through the Bow Novice thing three years ago. By state implemented rules a Bow Novice Champion had to move out. The Champion in question had never even placed before, won by default and won less than $30.00. I fought it, I beat it with the aid of LD Falks.
By state dictation no guests were allowed at ASA State Championships. I went at it again - anyone can walk into a national so why not a State? Again, LD Falks and Mike T stepped in to correct the situation. Guests were then allowed to shoot as guests at a Illinois ASA State Championship.
Non-qualified ASA shooters and non-qualified/non-ASA members allowed to shoot a State Championship? I got it rammed down my throat.
State imposed rule; no more written known yardage for known distances. Range finders required. No notification given. I raised the roof and right to loosing my Area Rep status. Like I needed a title for what I was already doing and still do. But notification was then put forth. One club that didn't get told and didn't get told they were to go by national rules did have written known yardage and held to Federation rules. I had the written known yardage and I shot half unknown and half know as per Federation rules whereas as Super Senior at a national I would shoot all unknown. Again, the club was not made aware of new imposed rules, nor was I aware of the new imposed rules. I followed the then known rules at the State Championship. Busted groups? I know damned well there was more than me shooting a compound, but I got saddled with two only Traditional shooters. No need to wonder why....
Hey, it's alright for the yet named Director to tell everyone to stay away from a Rinehart target State Championship. By my understanding our club was the only one to bid the damned event. 
Again, this year, a club didn't get it's first Qualifier because their date was filled by a club hosting it's second Qualifier. Rumor now is that the Director had a due date for applying for a Qualifier. News to me. But then soon after I Posted of this in the ASA forums our Director was rumored to resign.... Guess it was true, but then today, in the ASA forums, I asked if we had a Illinois Director.
The club that didn't get their wanted first Qualifier date just last year set the present ASA state record for attendance of a State Championship.

One thing for sure, if you don't speak up you won't get results.....


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## Alpha Burnt

One thing for sure, if you don't speak up you won't get results..... 




This is true. It would do the major org's some good to get on here and wade through the stuff to get to the point. People are desiring change, Archery is no different than any other sport it will evolve into a better format with change.


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## schmel_me

silhouette13 said:


> excellent post Nathan.
> 
> i like the fire that Levi shows and that he has a strong conviction. a little heat is good for getting the progress pot a boiling. i hope to meet some of the pros at the Worlds.
> 
> some change is good, some is not but change is gonna happen.
> 
> PS i like Dave Cousins better fat and angry! not trim and nice. just saying for the sake of sayin'
> irrelevant for sure but as Nathan said, that is what open forums are for.





now that's funny!


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## AdvanTimberLou

Alpha Burnt said:


> One thing for sure, if you don't speak up you won't get results.....


The meek shall inherit the earth but its the ones that speak up that get grandma's silverware! :wink:


On a side note:

I would like to thank the Pros who have came on here and commented on the incident in Marengo. While some do get upset on the topics we have on here, it is an open forum and our members have a passion for archery and are curious to the rumors they have heard. Sometimes the posts we see make you wonder why are they so concerned but this just shows their interest in the sport and the outcome it may have on it.

This site is very important to keep archery going and hopefully make organizations take note on their rules and see that 11,000+ views and 9 pages and counting on a single thread that maybe action needs to be taken. 

While the talk of moderators have come up, we do our best as volunteers and can't police every thread on here. Some threads we will/do allow to stay open if they discussion is being civil and there is no name calling or bashing. Its a very fine line as we'd hate to lock a thread too early because in this case Levi gave his side which I believe a lot of people wanted to hear as well as seeing if other pros would give their take. While some were upset with some of Levi's comments, it was nice to see him post and end some of the drama and speculation. 

This site needs the Pros to interact but also as members, you do have to respect these guys and gals and realize while they may be in the Pro class, they are like all of us, striving to survive in this world, balance family life and their careers and work on becoming the best at archery in hopes of holding that big check at the end of the weekend. They should not feel they have to come on here and defend themselves. 

Also, no one should at any time feel they will be kicked off or banned from the site from stating their opinion. While we do have rules in place on this forum, no one in this thread has crossed that line, it simply shows the interest people have and let's face it, in our society it seems people live for the drama. 

Again, thanks for the Pros for chiming in and realize Terry Martin created this site to talk about archery and while some topics get heated, in the end its still a person shooting a bow and arrow, something we all love to do!


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## N BROOKS

I do need to add a quick insight as well....

Levi and Chance pulled the protest because of the implications that could have happened to the whole group upon further investigation by the IBO board of directors after Danny appealed the ruling. So there will be a shoot-off at the World Championship for 2nd and 3rd between Chance and Danny. They could have easily kept the protest in place and saw the whole group suffer but they wouldn't do that to all of us. I didn't want to be DQ'd or lose my membership for a year but they could have easily made that happen. I really respect them for their decision to pull the protest. Personally, I never agreed with the protest, but as I mentioned before, I eat my apples from stem down... they had the right to protest... And I'm not sure I have officially apologized for allowing this to happen in my group. Obviously, by my previous post, my intentions were not ill-willed towards anyone. But my actions have been received in that manner. For that, I am sorry and do apologize to Levi and Chance. I hope next time something like this happens we all handle the situation differently.


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## edgerat

Nathan Brooks rules.
Isaac


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## carlosii

Garceau said:


> Besides Im not going to the Classic at this point.


sorry to hear that. you've been a strong supporter of the Pro Am tour...you will be missed i'm sure.


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## Garceau

carlosii said:


> sorry to hear that. you've been a strong supporter of the Pro Am tour...you will be missed i'm sure.


Thanks....it just flat out isnt going to work. My work and finances wont allow. More work than anything, my wife does nt really need new clothes....lol

We have graduation for our academy class on Friday 

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## bhtr3d

Garceau said:


> Thanks....it just flat out isnt going to work. My work and finances wont allow. More work than anything, my wife does nt really need new clothes....lol
> 
> We have graduation for our academy class on Friday
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Wow that really sucks ...you went all out this year to shoot them all too.


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## Garceau

Yeah kinda bummed

I have looked at airline tickets one way if I can get down there Friday night I have a ride home Sunday but you know how it goes

I'm just a broke like the rest of us

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## J Whittington

There is no finer person in any sport than Nathan Brooks.


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## f4yg

Nathan your a stand up guy.....I don't think anyone can read any ill will toward anyone in either of your posts... I'm certainly glad you Levi and Tim took the time to straighten this out....I gained a ton more respect for all of you...


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## hoosierredneck

good luck to you all,hope every thing works out the best for everyone involved.


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## jimb

It is great how an organization like the IBO can decide on a whim what is unsportsman like behavior and what isn't.


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## SonnyThomas

jimb said:


> It is great how an organization like the IBO can decide on a whim what is unsportsman like behavior and what isn't.


Filed Protests are "whims?" 

Other than the graciousness of those involved replying here, I wish this thread was closed.


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## Padgett

This thread is proof that our pro shooters do own computers and have internet connection, we need you here active on a daily basis. I am a up and coming shooter who is self taught and good enough to top ten finish in open a but have never read the rules. I listen to the guys on the courses on what rules are important or even serious and that is it. I am going to try to read the rules if they are on the Asa website and start there I guess.


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## dillio67

Well said Levi I cant take this site anymore,,thank goodness for BJ


Leviticus said:


> Well here it is to everyone exactly what happened since no one on here knows what happened at all here it is.....Everyone is saying there isnt a rule...well then why were they gonna dock danny evans points and give chance second place...why because it was found unsportsmanlike which was changed by the pros 2 years ago...they even posted signs all over the ranges...so yes it is a rule...there's no rule that says dont tickle your competitor at full draw but do that and see what happens....DQ...I've never protested anyone nor been protested...Danny Evans is a great guy but he himself said" I knew it was wrong when I did it and it was a bad decision"....I wasnt the only name on the protest there was several names on it..I'm the only one I guess that is willing to take heat over this...I could care less about 3rd place but if you get a rule enforced then of all people you should have to follow and know what the rule is....people are saying I'm a sore loser but I have never said anything but good about people when they beat me and I've never made an excuse...The only reason we dropped the protest is because danny filed an appeal and drug his whole group in the mix and used them for leverage saying "I will take the whole group with me if I have too"....we were not willing to let that happen as Danny was the only one who took the advantage.....So everyone tmorelli, daniel boone all of you who post freely and have no idea whats really going on need to quit trying to be an archerytalk hero and try typing the truth like "we dont know what happened or the situation for sure and I dont have all the answers" instead of trying to stand for something that is wrong!!!! 95% of the pro class told us to stand with the protest and to not drop it because we all know that is wrong and so did that group....everyone can say what they want and think what they want...but at some point we have to enforce the rules especially repeated violations cause God knows the org isnt going to....wheres the line....we all know it was wrong and an unfair advantage...why should we be ok with it...it's our job and its a RULE!!!!!! What we really need is for this entire stupid website to go away where people can get on here and bash people for no reason and hide behind your keyboards and ur nick names like imawesome33# or nooneknowsme77....these moderators on here are pitiful. they let post about religion and everything else on here build up and build up just to help there numbers...they let people openly bash each other and say whatever the heck they want truth or no truth...I'm sorry to the people that actually want to know the truth that you have to rely on this crap which is 99% of the time not even close to the truth...Shame on ARCHERYTALK......and all the people on here that like to stir the pot while your kicked back in your swivel chair eating doritos and laughing....some people take this serious and you aren't the one that should be laughing!!!! What ever happened to archers helping archers...??? This thread isn't helping anyone.... LEVI MORGAN


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## Daniel Boone

dillio67 said:


> Well said Levi I cant take this site anymore,,thank goodness for BJ


Why then do you post here and obviously read?
DB


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## southgaboy

Kinda figured after Levi explained what was going on this thread would die, but I see the same ole one's still going on. Amazing.


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## Fire Archer

southgaboy said:


> Kinda figured after Levi explained what was going on this thread would die, but I see the same ole one's still going on. Amazing.


Yeah it is amazing alright. Levi is probably 100 times the man the majority that has posted on this is. Just let it go away. If it would have been the other way around then it would have been just fine to these people. But since Levi has DOMINATED 3d archery in the past few years everybody wants his head.


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## force1

I have seen Levi at the practice range, shot next to him , spoke to him and he spoke back, seems like a nice guy to me , seems down to earth, I have seen a whole lot worse, just my thoughts, please dont crucify me for them.


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## P'town Shooter

Levi is the best right now. He only going to get better.


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## chasemukluk

Babyk said:


> Well well well......what a nice story.......I think we both know why the Protest was dropped!!! Am actually glad it was cause who would want years of shady acts and unsportsmanlike activities to be exposed and hurt some pretty boy imagine. Lot of information that if got out would tarnish and be very damming. I mean all Danny E did was shoot out of order right? Heck thats not so bad I could think of a few things worst like idk getting the yardages from range officials prior to shooting the course, or being caught out on the range you are shooting the next day wiyh a rangefinder, or shooting out of order before it was a rule or "common knowledge" and not calling penalty on yourself. Danny E is one of the best promoters of the Pro class and always treats people like humans and takes his personal time to talk to them if they want. He doesn't sit behind a table and signs autographs or dont talk 2 peoole cause hes to busy throwing a baby fit cause he didn't win in the shoot off. To see this malicious attack on him over a bull crap rule that to my knowledge hasnt been enforced ever is sick, I mean are you guys really that worried thst he gets his time in the spotlight you have to pull the protest card? How lame is that, I can tell you Danny E would never ever cheat hes been in the gsme for to long and to well respected to throw it away for a few thousand bucks. My feeling is this since the protest was signed behind people's back I think it came down to people just couldn't stand to see Danny E do well. For tgat reason alone. If the protest was really signed due to wanting to keep the integrity of the game intact then my suggestion for 2 of the 3 that signed the protest is get your house in order before you start to throw stones at others. You guys sicken me with your tactics over this protest. The only peace I get from this is karma always comes back around to pay guys back so I guess ill sit back wait and watch.


Angry much? 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## chasemukluk

Babyk said:


> Levi let me tell you something Son - Danny E is a great archer as you stated but hes 100 times the man you will ever be and ill put my life's savings on that. If we are talking about there is more than just admitting you done wrong why dont you come out and be truthful about the topics where deep down inside you know you were givin the advantage. To drag Danny E through the mud isnt right when you yourself said you brime the same rule yourself but cause it was common among Pros at the time it was ok huh......I tell you what your a hell of a archer Levi maybe one of the best ever but your ego and th way you carry yourself will never allow you to achieve the level of say a Randy Ulmer, Jeff Hopkins or even a Danny Evans.


Ha...you are not done yet? Reading this post made me want to read other posts you have written. You sure do like to act tough and talk down to people you don't even know. Jealous are you? What is your real name so next time you shoot an ASA or IBO Levi can put a face with your AT name...seriously. I really wanted to ignore these two posts, just couldn't...I have read this entire thread, and you come off like someone people would really want to hang out with...

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


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## Kstigall

Babyk said:


> Levi let me tell you something Son - Danny E is a great archer as you stated but hes 100 times the man you will ever be and ill put my life's savings on that. If we are talking about there is more than just admitting you done wrong why dont you come out and be truthful about the topics where deep down inside you know you were givin the advantage. To drag Danny E through the mud isnt right when you yourself said you brime the same rule yourself but cause it was common among Pros at the time it was ok huh......I tell you what your a hell of a archer Levi maybe one of the best ever but your ego and th way you carry yourself will never allow you to achieve the level of say a Randy Ulmer, Jeff Hopkins or even a Danny Evans.


You have stepped WAYYYYYYY out of bounds!!!! 

I am entirely too old and too much of a realist to idolize great athletes, politicians, religious leaders or any other celebrity that I know I don't really "know". But the way you have spoken can get a person poked in the nose. Don't take that as a threat. I am merely trying to emphasize that you were EXTREMELY rude!

By the way, just how well do THINK you know Levi and the people you compare him to? I expect not as much as you think you do! I am NOT saying Ulmer, Hopkins or Evans have some ugly skeletons rattling around. It is just that I would not be surprised if they are not perfect...............

I do know some "old timer" 3D'ers did some very wrong things and continued to be worshiped within the 3D community and heavily sponsored.


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## Garceau

Uggh......

I apologize for even starting this thread.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## bhtr3d

garceau said:


> uggh......
> 
> I apologize for even starting this thread.
> 
> Sent from my motorola electrify using tapatalk 2


lmao


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## NateUK

Garceau said:


> Uggh......
> 
> I apologize for even starting this thread.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2



If you didn't start it, somebody else would have...so I wouldn't worry about it. Babyk is the guy that has officially jumped ship and crossed the line, as he normally does.


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## Garceau

Wasnt Levi the biggest supporter of Danny last year when he won IBO and didnt get awards ceremony......

I already know the answer. I will see Levi saturday, will apologize for the direction this thread has turned

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Kstigall

Garceau said:


> Uggh......
> 
> I apologize for even starting this thread.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2




Too late for apologies............. Can someone slip an opened container of catfish bait under his car seat one hot day? :becky:


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## carlosii

Kstigall said:


> Too late for apologies............. Can someone slip an opened container of catfish bait under his car seat one hot day? :becky:


would you share with your Dad that if he's planning on going to Cullman I'd enjoy sharing a stake with him again. i'll be on #15...just me and ol' Levi...:shade:


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## Garceau

Kstigall said:


> Too late for apologies............. Can someone slip an opened container of catfish bait under his car seat one hot day? :becky:


Not in the silver bullet Prius !

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## Kstigall

Garceau said:


> Not in the silver bullet Prius !
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Ok "not in" the Prius........ a couple of tablespoons ON the manifold should suffice!


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## 3rdplace

This thread is like a stubborn cockroach, no matter how many times you stomp it it just won't die!


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## carlosii

3rdplace said:


> This thread is like a stubborn cockroach, no matter how many times you stomp it it just won't die!


how about we leave Roche's out of this? oh, you mean the other roachs...sorry about that. :shade:


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## SonnyThomas

3rdplace said:


> This thread is like a stubborn cockroach, no matter how many times you stomp it it just won't die!


Yeah, I noticed. BUT! Let's talk Carlos in ta shootin' Pro, then we can ride him


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