# IBO directors meeting



## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Is anyone aware of any changes since the board of directors meeting? 

Or...to be more direct...is Marcum out?


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## grandd7 (Feb 25, 2010)

The answer is no


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## f4yg (Aug 30, 2005)

Marcum is not out! The directors who never show to do anything but vote kept him in. No Known Class ..No changes at all. Talked to numerous people yesterday at a local 3D shoot and all said they are done. If the things I heard Marcum said about losing shooters is true( not caring) and he actually said them.He's a complete fool!


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

So let me ask this.. Why would they make any changes when people continue to line up and hand them money thinking the next shoot will be any different than the last 4 years worth? The membership has absolutely no say in any decisions that are made, but continue to pay a membership fee. So in the end we are our own worst enemies by supporting a group who's only concern is collecting the cash. So rush out and make your reservations for next year, maybe it will get better!!


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

f4yg said:


> Marcum is not out! The directors who never show to do anything but vote kept him in. No Known Class ..No changes at all. Talked to numerous people yesterday at a local 3D shoot and all said they are done. If the things I heard Marcum said about losing shooters is true( not caring) and he actually said them.He's a complete fool!


There are some changes. I think they are for the good.


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## pahunter1980 (Oct 17, 2010)

When will the changes be known to the shooters


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

Should be anytime. Once announced then I can talk about it.


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## hdrat (Mar 7, 2009)

hrtlnd164 said:


> So let me ask this.. Why would they make any changes when people continue to line up and hand them money thinking the next shoot will be any different than the last 4 years worth? The membership has absolutely no say in any decisions that are made, but continue to pay a membership fee. So in the end we are our own worst enemies by supporting a group who's only concern is collecting the cash. So rush out and make your reservations for next year, maybe it will get better!!


All members have a say so, but I believe you have to be at the meeting.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Maybe it came across a little harsh but for years the same issues shoot after shoot get swept under the rug. Shooters complain then return only to have the same issues crop up again. No one wants to see anything archery fail but for heavens sake address the damn issues already. It seems the IBO has set the bar so low people almost accept a sub par event every time they sign up. So yes some change is needed, but I am not sure it will be what the membership has been wanting.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

I'm sure some will like what will change and others will not. I talked to a lot of shooters the last couple years and told a lot about some changes I have been working on. Well my proposal passed and is getting put into action. We will see how it is supported and it could lead to more changes.


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

outbackarcher said:


> I'm sure some will like what will change and others will not. I talked to a lot of shooters the last couple years and told a lot about some changes I have been working on. Well my proposal passed and is getting put into action. We will see how it is supported and it could lead to more changes.


If it's what you've told me a couple times now that you're trying to get changed Larry then I'm glad to see your hard work is actually happening. Will be interesting to see how it works out for them.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

More importantly, will your change add shooters?


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

Dartonman said:


> More importantly, will your change add shooters?


I think so but time will tell.


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

All members have a say so, but I believe you have to be at the meeting. 

Hell even Directors don't have a say..........the meetings weren't open to the membership in the past. It's frowned upon if any member wished to attend and your agenda item had to be submitted weeks in advance to be even considered by the President.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

outbackarcher said:


> I'm sure some will like what will change and others will not. I talked to a lot of shooters the last couple years and told a lot about some changes I have been working on. Well my proposal passed and is getting put into action. We will see how it is supported and it could lead to more changes.


Good deal. Sounds good.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

I'll be curious to see if this is a wake up call for the arrogant or just another page in the Marcum play book....how ignorance can ruin an organization.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

New Classes and Rule Changes for 2017
30-Aug-2016
The IBO Board of Directors held their biannual meeting on Saturday, August 27th and would like to announce the following changes that will occur during the 2017 3D tournament season.

ADDITION OF FIVE NEW SHOOTING CLASSES:

MAH - Money Advanced Hunter - Red stake; AHC rules*

MFO - Money Female Open - Green stake; FBO rules*

MMO - Money Male Open - Blue stake; MBO rules*

MSO - Money Senior Open - Green stake; MSR rules*

BBO - Beginner Bowhunter Open - Red stake; MBO rules

*All money classes will shoot with their peers and have assigned shooting times. This format will be very similar to the Pro and Semi-Pro format ensuring those who compete for money are competing under the same conditions and are monitored by their peers. Entry fees for National Level events will be $65 with a 44% payback and will pay 1 place for every 10 shooters. Entry fees for the World Championship will be $95 with a 41% payback also paying 1 place for every 10 shooters. 

Shooters in Beginner Bowhunter Open (BBO) will be subject to a move-out rule.

Additional information concerning these new classes will be provided in the 2017 IBO Year Book and updated Rule Book.

RULE CHANGES:

Shooters in Pro Hunter, Money Advanced Hunter and Advanced Hunter classes will now be allowed to use glue-in points. Shooters competing in all other Hunter Classes must still use screw-in points.

RU - “A limb mounted draw check or clicker may be used” is being changed to “A clicker is allowed but must not be mounted in the sight window of the riser”. This change makes the language of the rule the same for both the traditional only and combined event rule books.

ADDITIONAL AWARDS AND RECOGNITION:

Shooters competing in all seven IBO events will be placed in a drawing where seven winners will be drawn for premier prizes and giveaways. This event will be called “Lucky Seven” and will be drawn at the World Championship to thank and honor those who are loyal IBO participants


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

grandd7 said:


> The answer is no





f4yg said:


> Marcum is not out! The directors who never show to do anything but vote kept him in. No Known Class ..No changes at all. Talked to numerous people yesterday at a local 3D shoot and all said they are done. If the things I heard Marcum said about losing shooters is true( not caring) and he actually said them.He's a complete fool!





outbackarcher said:


> There are some changes. I think they are for the good.





pahunter1980 said:


> When will the changes be known to the shooters





outbackarcher said:


> Should be anytime. Once announced then I can talk about it.


UGH! Why in the world can people NOT talk about the changes? ........... Because the "changes" that you believe to be happening are subject to being cancelled on a whim. Sorry, but why else would secrecy be required? I know you are working hard to improve the IBO's product and I commend you for it. Not only are you working to improve the product better you have to _convince _people there are serious problems when it's blatantly obvious. There is no hiding from the fact that the IBO's major tournament participation numbers are way down while the ASA's numbers are way up. 



outbackarcher said:


> I'm sure some will like what will change and others will not. I talked to a lot of shooters the last couple years and told a lot about some changes I have been working on. Well my proposal passed and is getting put into action. We will see how it is supported and it could lead to more changes.


Go public with what you proposed and was passed. Why the secrecy? A HUGE problem with the IBO is that we pay to be a member and yet they act like it's _their _personal club.



Huntin Hard said:


> If it's what you've told me a couple times now that you're trying to get changed Larry then I'm glad to see your hard work is actually happening. Will be interesting to see how it works out for them.


Again why the secrecy? The IBO seems to run by a bunch of immature people. 



Dartonman said:


> I'll be curious to see if this is a wake up call for the arrogant or just another page in the Marcum play book....how ignorance can ruin an organization.


I can guarantee you that it's not a wake up call. Ignorance is not all that has ruined the IBO. How many people from hugely wealthy families end up being totally unproductive and grow old living off of mommy and daddy or even grand ma and grand pa? ...... Too much of IBO's leadership are very much like those slacker brats. They are hanging on to what hard working and creative people before them created while they burn up resources and doing nothing productive. They are focused on maintaining their title and sense of power.........

outbackarcher, you should seriously consider assembling your own team of open minded people and put on your own competition. IBO equipment rules and targets. A few Known distance classes with IBO equipment rules. Follow ASA tournament format as it's a PROVEN successful format. Scheduling would be tough but avoid IBO dates and ASA dates if possible. It could be the weekend of the ASA Paris, TX shoot......... I'll do what I can to help...... I'm thinking southwest PA region or eastern Ohio.


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## dustinC (Feb 5, 2013)

outbackarcher said:


> New Classes and Rule Changes for 2017
> 30-Aug-2016
> The IBO Board of Directors held their biannual meeting on Saturday, August 27th and would like to announce the following changes that will occur during the 2017 3D tournament season.
> 
> ...


I will be interesting to see what this does to the other classes. Also will there money classes have their own ranges for peer times or will the regular classes have to wait and shoot around them?


Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

> outbackarcher, you should seriously consider assembling your own team of open minded people and put on your own competition. IBO equipment rules and targets. A few Known distance classes with IBO equipment rules. Follow ASA tournament format as it's a PROVEN successful format. Scheduling would be tough but avoid IBO dates and ASA dates if possible. It could be the weekend of the ASA Paris, TX shoot......... I'll do what I can to help...... I'm thinking southwest PA region or eastern Ohio.


I would be interested in volunteering and contributing to an organization like you're describing. I believe that you'd find many other willing contributors as well as sponsors who'd be willing to take a chance rather than remain connected to a sinking ship. 

Regions failed mainly from a marketing standpoint...their shoots were a great format and very well received. Biggest problem was that even locals didn't know about them. They may have lacked some organizational skill but certainly were open to hearing from their shooters and making changes based on the majority.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

dustinC said:


> I will be interesting to see what this does to the other classes. Also will there money classes have their own ranges for peer times or will the regular classes have to wait and shoot around them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


The money classes will have their own range.


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## BROX (Sep 29, 2005)

outbackarcher said:


> New Classes and Rule Changes for 2017
> 30-Aug-2016
> The IBO Board of Directors held their biannual meeting on Saturday, August 27th and would like to announce the following changes that will occur during the 2017 3D tournament season.
> 
> ...


Useless changes ASA here I come


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## 10RINGR (Jan 26, 2005)

Why no known classes????? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

very disappointing


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## ibo73503 (Nov 26, 2009)

These changes change nothing, 44% payback! So the ibo still gets to keep better than 1/2 of all the shooter's money, but they won't listen to what the shooters want. It seems as if they are saying "come line my pockets and deal with what we give you". Well, good luck to all that choose to shoot the ibo shoots.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

10RINGR said:


> Why no known classes?????
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because Marcum said "NO"....despite a signed petition by hundreds who were asking for it. Apparently, IBO does not need or want new shooters


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

ibo73503 said:


> These changes change nothing, 44% payback! So the ibo still gets to keep better than 1/2 of all the shooter's money, but they won't listen to what the shooters want. It seems as if they are saying "come line my pockets and deal with what we give you". Well, good luck to all that choose to shoot the ibo shoots.


I can assure you that the IBO is not getting more than half. The host and I am one of them with the 1st leg have to spend a lot of money and resources to put one of these events on.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

So it's better....no more beating 150 archers and collecting money for beating 8. 

However the 10% payback rule is not good. Especially with only paying out 44%

It may make me consider one shoot next year 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

These are basic changes for the better. 
Peer groups for the "new" money classes is a requirement for it to be an honest competition and not just a "fun" shoot. If guys pressure others in their group for calls word will spread VERY quickly that they are whiners and must be "managed". In the ASA you know the guys in your class that lobby for calls, the guys that get aggressive for a call and the guys that get whiny if they don't get a call. Some of them are very well liked and are personal friends but we know what is coming and it's no big deal.

It still appears IBO leadership don't totally understand why what they have has been steadily shriveling. Problem with waiting years to make obvious improvements is that you lose customers while standing around with your hands in your pockets. Some of those customers will not return for a while and some will never return. It will take much more change and many years to build participation numbers back up.

I do feel that the peer grouped money classes with a fixed start time will be more attractive to ASA archers on the fringe of IBO territory. Allowing glue-in points will make it easier to cross-over to IBO but it will also make it easier for IBO'ers to shoot ASA!


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

So...the part about Marcum simply saying "No" to marked yardage at the board meeting last year. Why is one man allowed to bully a board into cutting revenue to the tune of several hundred additional shooters? I think the BODs who resigned over this single act would be welcome participants in this discussion. Ultimately...nothing will change...except attendance.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Last thing IBO needed was more classes, unless it was a class that would bring in NEW shooters (ie known distance shooters).
Assigned groups/times was step in the right direction, but it only affects a small percentage of the competitors, so small that it's likely that even the person winning the division probably won't earn enough to cover their expenses.... just like before.
I feel like I wasted money joining IBO last year, and I feel like my time, travel expenses, and registration fees were a waste of money last year. I'll not give one more cent to IBO until/unless they acknowledge the wishes of the majority of the shooters/vendors.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Nothing personal outbackarcher....but you're a host club...and on the BOD...why would you gamble by voting against the incumbent president and taking the risk? What could you hope to gain if the incumbent kept his position?


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## f4yg (Aug 30, 2005)

outbackarcher said:


> There are some changes. I think they are for the good.


Well then the directors who attended were lying or didn't pay attention...A group of us talked to 2 guys who attended and they said no changes....Don't know who to believe anymore!


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## grandd7 (Feb 25, 2010)

Outback I see u and 3 to 4 other BOD at all the shoots doing all the work and I thank u .but to all the other BOD I never see what gives , u have no idea what the shooters want so why do u have any say ? Tell me explain it to me how u know what's best for the organization?


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

With start times,this should help with the backups that seem to happen especially on Saturday morning when everyone hits the range it seems at around 8am. A little change is a start. It's still the only game in town and I hope it just gets better with time. It appears Larry Kade is working his tail off trying to make things better and listening,Thanks Larry for keeping us all up to date.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Can't wait to shoot Unknown Senior Money!


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

sagecreek said:


> Can't wait to shoot Unknown Senior Money!


Curious what you expect to be different in Senior Money class in 2017 compared to MSR class this year? The way I see it, the only difference I see is the target assignments... .otherwise it's going to be exactly the same people that paid to shoot for money last year.... shooting the same equipment as last year....at the same distances as last year.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Fewer shooters is the only difference I see


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> Can't wait to shoot Unknown Senior Money!


Don't get too excited, I have no problem with traveling north to take your money.............


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> Don't get too excited, I have no problem with traveling north to take your money.............


Come and get it!


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

I think as people see the structure it will help. Shooting with guys or gals in your own class, me not depending on my tent workers to bust the groups, ranges controlled with shoot times. I think if people give it a chance it will help. My proposal was the number 1 suggestion I got from everyone. Granted some guys just want to show up shoot and go home but most wanted structure, less cheating accusations, and more money in the pot. Just give it a chance.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

outbackarcher said:


> I can assure you that the IBO is not getting more than half. The host and I am one of them with the 1st leg have to spend a lot of money and resources to put one of these events on.


Do you have any idea how much of registration fees ASA (has always) paid back or their payback schedule? Do you think ASA's expenses to put on a tournament are less than IBO's? 

Here's a little tidbit that might interest anyone that's considering shooting for money in IBO. The last regular shoot of the year for ASA was Metropolis, Illinois... Warren, Pennsylvania for IBO. In the top Amateur class, there were 87 shooters at ASA (Open A) and 96 at Warren (MBO)

ASA paid back over $3500 to 17 shooters, compared to IBO that paid less than $750 to 10 shooters. Now here's the important part. 1st place at IBO won less than 13th place at ASA.

Fact is that if you cannot break even shooting for money in IBO unless you're Pro or Semi-Pro, and I don't see the "new classes" doing anything to change that.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

So basically still a big local shoot with a few watered down classes with a side pot.. No known classes=no new shooters. Tee time classes mixed in with non tee time classes, how will that work? Extra classes pay more money and paybacks still suck. I agree with the others, a few BOD members trying to make a difference on a team that just don't care about those who pay the bills. Disappointing but really no one should be surprised. Only one way there will be any changes made and that is if attendance forces the change.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

nestly said:


> Do you have any idea how much of registration fees ASA (has always) paid back or their payback schedule? Do you think ASA's expenses to put on a tournament are less than IBO's?


Yes the ASA pays back 70%. I have shot the ASA for years and won my way to the pro class. 

The second question is do I think the ASA'S cost to put on a shoot is less expensive than the IBO (it actually should be the hosts). My answer again is yes. I know it is. I have spoken with the ASA about bringing an event close by.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

outbackarcher said:


> Yes the ASA pays back 70%. I have shot the ASA for years and won my way to the pro class.
> 
> The second question is do I think the ASA'S cost to put on a shoot is less expensive than the IBO (it actually should be the hosts). My answer again is yes. I know it is. I have spoken with the ASA about bringing an event close by.


How do you suggest it's possible that the ASA with a full staff can put on a shoot for less money than the IBO that relies on a local club heavily? Not to mention that ASA has to accommodate far more shooters. IBO registration is similar to ASA, and will actually be higher for the "money" classes next year, so clearly IBO is doing A LOT less for the shooters dollars than ASA.


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

The BBO class is a big improvement!!! ASA needs this class really bad.. The money class peer grouping is great as well. But why not make everyone pay to the money class and not divide the class? This is adding pointless classes instead of adding something useful as a couple Known classes. I realize this probably doesn't sway shooters one way or the other because half of them only payed for the money option anyways. But making them pay like they do in the ASA would greatly improve payouts possibly enticing other shooters to come play. Bowhunter Classes = trophies, BBO class = trophy and Other classes = money. Mandatory move-ups..... Suck it up IBO, do the right things for once. I'll be surprised if any vendors show up. If I were a sponsoring vendor I'd put heat on you to listen to the customers....... (P.S. Not a Known fan, but I do realize its needed)


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## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

No offense outbackarcher at least you are trying, but I don't see how this helps anything. I shoot SHC and had anticipated moving to MSR next. In so I have been watching the MSR and what do you have 6-10 shooters that sign up for the money at each event ? So now you add a separate class for those 6-10, why ? At the worlds I checked out the score sheets and I wondered why we have sooo many classes with 10 or less shooters. So the answer to the IBO's troubles is to add more classes, again I don't get it.
And let's get rid of the biggest waste of money, TEAMS. What do you have in teams ? A few select guys form a team and you end up with 3 or 4 teams in a lot of these classes and almost everyone gets a buckle and or/a jacket, for WHAT ? At Chapman I was talking with a new to the IBO shooter and he wanted to know what class would be the easiest to win a buckle in, I told him to look at how many teams a class had. Find a class with 3 or 4 teams and get on one of the teams and you are about guaranteed a buckle. JMO


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## hoytdude1974 (Jan 9, 2004)

Outbackarcher: Will the regular MBO and MBR still exist? This will create allot of classes for Pin shooters. Maybe too many. The addition of the Beginners Open class was a great idea. I love the rule allowing glue in points for MHC/AHC. Great idea! When will they announce the 3rd leg location? I would like to start booking rooms/cabins. Look forward to next year!


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## NYS REP (Dec 21, 2003)

This doesn't even require a response.................unbelievable....................and yet Marcum remains.............rest in peace..............IBO


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

hoytdude1974 said:


> Outbackarcher: Will the regular MBO and MBR still exist? This will create allot of classes for Pin shooters. Maybe too many. The addition of the Beginners Open class was a great idea. I love the rule allowing glue in points for MHC/AHC. Great idea! When will they announce the 3rd leg location? I would like to start booking rooms/cabins. Look forward to next year!


MBR will remain like it has always been. MBO is now a trophy only class. Hopefully, at least what I want to see is, the trophy classes are gone and all that is left is the money classes.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I think with all the money shooters in their own class with shotgun start, eases the concern of being pencil whipped out of your money. I think more people will shoot it with the idea of no cheating because we are peered together. I think it will work.


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)




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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Being pencil whipped I can understand....out of your money...what money? If an IBO shooter is in this for the money I don't have to question his/her intelligence...the question is already answered. A weekend as a Walmart greeter pays better.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> I think with all the money shooters in their own class with shotgun start, eases the concern of being pencil whipped out of your money. I think more people will shoot it with the idea of no cheating because we are peered together. I think it will work.


I agree. It will take time but it is something people like. 

One of the things I like about the ASA is being assigned to a group. You meet people that you may have never met otherwise. At the ASA Classic this year my group of 5 included one guy that had shot with previously. When I shot in the OPA tournament this year I saw folks that I had shot with at ASA shoots. At every ASA shoot this year I had at least two guys in my group that I had not previously shot with. I shot all of the ASA's last year except one. I don't think the IBO only archers realize just how much more "professionally" run ASA tournaments are compared to IBO tournaments. It's an entirely different experience.

I've been told by more than a few previously IBO only archers that in their opinion the ASA tournaments are much more fun and simply better. I've never heard an archer say that IBO tournaments are "better" overall. I will admit I "like" trail shoots like the IBO BUT it has many more negatives when it comes to competition archery. Some years ago I shot some IBO tournaments.


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## Fingershooter39 (Aug 12, 2008)

This is really sad I have been shooting the IBO since 1985 it was a great organization to shoot at that time Bill Perine was the guy that really started the IBO at Hocking College ..It was a great shoot people really had a good time coming from all around to shoot Bill and his family was shooters there selfs I shot with him and his family a few times at local shoots ..Bill was a IBO director and always listened to the shooters because he was a shooter his self and tried to make good changes for the shooters if he could but we all know that you can't fix it all ...Here is the problem the IBO your directors are not shooters and they make the rules we IBO members pay there hotel fees and all there expenses at every shoot and most of them don't do anything for this ...I now that every year the IBO directors go on a weekend getaway that is paid by us as members really are membership means nothing at all we are just used for the money...If the IBO president and the directors really cared about what we thought as members and we meant something to the IBO they wouldn't have closed meetings and we would vote as members who is president and who we would like for directors.....But as members you will never see that day because for the hand selected president and directors will never let that happen why I don't know because what they are doing is not working everyone can see that and they continue on and do what they like not for the members....They start a few new classes WOW that really helps you have to fix the problem first but they put patch on it and they keep doing the samething every year ..When are we as member is going to say enough is enough but we don't so that tells them that can do what they like and we will continue to come this is all are fault too ...I started two years ago shooting the ASA and I really like it I shot them all this year and had a great time I did shoot the IBO world this year just to see some old friends but I will say I will not be back ...The first day I have to shoot I walked 2 miles to my first target and did several others I shoot Semi Pro because the bus wouldn't bring us to the tent where they let you off the bus it was a 1.5 mile walk to the tent and a half mile to the first target ...This is what goes on in your closed door meetings I have several more minutes to these meetings ...


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Would a competing organization have a chance at pulling shooters away from the IBO? Or even picking up the ones who are leaving?

I'd be curious to see if a blend of ASA format with IBO speed limits...not so many dang classes would have success in the north.


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## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

Dartonman said:


> Would a competing organization have a chance at pulling shooters away from the IBO? Or even picking up the ones who are leaving?
> 
> I'd be curious to see if a blend of ASA format with IBO speed limits...not so many dang classes would have success in the north.


I believe it absolutely would. If it were me there would be zero amateur money classes. If you want to shoot for money shoot the pro classes.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

cowdocdvm said:


> I believe it absolutely would. If it were me there would be zero amateur money classes. If you want to shoot for money shoot the pro classes.


What would non pro archers travel across the country to shoot for, box tops?


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## gvincent (Dec 14, 2002)

Soooo... On top of everything else the IBO is doing to discourage shooters, they are going to add a bunch more small classes??? Why not address some of the existing classes with very little participation instead of breaking down some classes that already aren't very big. And now, what do you do for the national triple crown and shooter of the year prizes. Do you have to shoot the money class to be eligible? No offense IBO, but this sounds like a not very well thought out clusterf*ck waiting to happen.


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## 3D Archery (May 19, 2016)

What is the big deal about known yardage? As I was told by the IBO reps, it is suppose to be a reflection of hunting, not target archery. Then again I shoot as recurve (I shoot GAP not instinctive) and range estimation is key, which i enjoy. 
As for the ASA, they are no where to be found up here in NY, the IBO is the only game and they are barely even here in my part of the state.


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

Dartonman said:


> Would a competing organization have a chance at pulling shooters away from the IBO? Or even picking up the ones who are leaving?
> 
> I'd be curious to see if a blend of ASA format with IBO speed limits...not so many dang classes would have success in the north.


I Have one word for all of you
ONT3D.com

Help us grow, I will show you what the north can be


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Dartonman said:


> Would a competing organization have a chance at pulling shooters away from the IBO? Or even picking up the ones who are leaving?
> 
> I'd be curious to see if a blend of ASA format with IBO speed limits...not so many dang classes would have success in the north.


That's what Regions was supposed to be...but they kinda lost their way.


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## T&A (Sep 26, 2013)

3D Archery said:


> What is the big deal about known yardage? As I was told by the IBO reps, it is suppose to be a reflection of hunting, not target archery. Then again I shoot as recurve (I shoot GAP not instinctive) and range estimation is key, which i enjoy.
> As for the ASA, they are no where to be found up here in NY, the IBO is the only game and they are barely even here in my part of the state.


If it is a reflection of hunting why do they have classes with open equipment in them I have never seen anyone out hunting with a bow set up with open equipment they need to get off there high horse and face the truth it's a archery tournament and if they had never started these archery tournaments they would not exist at all and with out the shooter and sponsor support they will soon not exist they need to listen to the majority not the non shooting old timers who just want to be board members to get free weekends at high class resorts to hang out and bs to old friends about how they used to do it


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

I think Regions may have made some mistakes early in the game but the shoot they did in Warren Pa was awesome. I hear that they have chosen locations in Pa, Oh, W Va and NC already for next year. I'm sure more information will come out soon.

I'm thinking I'll give them a chance since some of my friends like the known distance shoots and they actually offer that class.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Dartonman said:


> I think Regions may have made some mistakes early in the game but the shoot they did in Warren Pa was awesome. I hear that they have chosen locations in Pa, Oh, W Va and NC already for next year. I'm sure more information will come out soon.
> 
> I'm thinking I'll give them a chance since some of my friends like the known distance shoots and they actually offer that class.


That's the territory they should have targeted in the first place.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I think I will be shooting a lot of the Regions shoots next year if their shoots are that close to me.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

cowdocdvm said:


> I believe it absolutely would. If it were me there would be zero amateur money classes. If you want to shoot for money shoot the pro classes.


I've heard this statement many times. I know MANY of us that travel long distances to compete in ASA tournaments enjoy shooting for money as amateurs. I know many of us have little or no interest in collecting cheap trophies. Virginia Archery Coalition championship buckles are very much coveted and they use ASA rules.

The ASA gives out plaques for a podium finish and money further down into the finish order. It is a FACT that archers very much like this. Most every beginner's first goal is to "get a check" and then it might to be to win $100+ check and then a top 10 finish and then a top 5 and then the podium and finally a tournament win. Let us not forget about the SOY checks! The physically big presentation checks given for a podium finish are coveted as "trophies". I know I wouldn't be driving 8+ hours one way multiple times a season for just a cheap trophy and a casual archery tournament and that is a major reason the IBO circuit no longer interest me in the least. 

Last year I brought home 5 plaques (4 podiums and SOY) and a fair amount of money from ASA competition. I very much appreciated getting the money to offset some of the expense. 

The IBO BOD just does not get it or do they? Maybe it is the membership that "doesn't get it"! It could be the BOD is very satisfied with a second rate organization and tournament format as long as they have the funds to support their personal enjoyment (travel, authority, power, socializing with industry leaders). I'm about convinced the IBO membership are the ones that need to change the way they think. My IBO membership expired many years ago and I haven't missed it in the least. BUT fortunately within 2 hours of my home in Virginia ASA clubs now _significantly _out number IBO clubs. It wasn't very long ago that Virginia was mostly IBO country. 

Any of the ASA tournament are much more interesting and fun than the grandest IBO tournament. There is much more going on at ASA tournaments. You will absolutely meet new people because everyone is randomly peer grouped. The whole thing is MUCH more family friendly.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

100% agree


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## robinofthehood (Jun 14, 2010)

So, now the money hungry shooters get to compete for a bigger cash payout in a bowhunting organization...
It think what these people really want is a class called MHM (Money Hungry Mongers) on a per shot basis, like a unlimited blackjack table.
I am glad to read they will be competing on their own courses and "hopefully" not creating a stool sitting marathon for the rest of us.
I am also glad to read that "known classes" was shot down.


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## swampy_44 (Nov 15, 2013)

Why are you against pay outs? Alot of people spend alot of money to shoot. Why not get some kick back if you shoot well.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

swampy_44 said:


> Why are you against pay outs? Alot of people spend alot of money to shoot. Why not get some kick back if you shoot well.


Yeah its better for BOD to get the freebies and for the shoot site club to rake in the dough but gods forbid the paying shooters should get anything.

If you think the local club that puts on an IBO major shoot doesn't make money, just check out the club that put on the Bedford shoot for years. They own alot of acreage there in Lawrence county and have big bucks in the bank.

I'm not blaming the club, I say good on them. But the IBO is not taking care of the shooters but instead are taking care of themselves it sounds like to me.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

robinofthehood said:


> So, now the money hungry shooters get to compete for a bigger cash payout in a bowhunting organization...
> It think what these people really want is a class called MHM (Money Hungry Mongers) on a per shot basis, like a unlimited blackjack table.
> I am glad to read they will be competing on their own courses and "hopefully" not creating a stool sitting marathon for the rest of us.
> I am also glad to read that "known classes" was shot down.


Please tell us why you believe it is GOOD for the IBO that there is significantly decreasing tournament attendance causing vendors to pull out while membership declines and a significant part of the paying members feel unsatisfied?

Why exactly do you care if _paying _IBO members would rather participant in a real archery competition than what is currently basically a big "fun" round?

Why exactly are you against the IBO having "known" classes that are definitely hugely popular and have proven to draw in _new _archers (_paying _members!!)? It is proven that known distance classes will not hurt but rather will help the IBO grow.

Your post sounds like it is coming from someone that is angry and stuck in neutral to put it nicely. Someone that would rather the IBO collapse into ruin than to evolve!

Back in the '80's and even well into the '90's there were tons of people whining and crying that they would never accept technology over stacks of paper and multiple carbon copies! I even had to deal with not old Cobol programmers that fought those us developing stuff on at first on min-systems and then PC's and local servers rather than on mainframe computers. Then we had to deal with folks that refused to acknowledge the internet was here to stay and that we needed to leverage it. Your post sounds all so familiar just in a different environment.

Another example.....
Closed minded American automakers took a beating from Japanese manufacturers for decades. They _knew _ American auto buyers did not want smaller trucks and cars. They _knew _ we would not buy smaller better built cars. They _knew_ we would always trade our cars in every 2 or 3 years so they did not need to build better quality vehicles........ Maybe the IBO is totally different from anything and everything else in this world but I seriously doubt it.

I truly understand how people feel when they see what they know changing. BUT that is life. Maybe you can stop change temporarily but at some point you will either get run over or left behind.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

The more I hear this stuff, the more hopeful I am that the Regions tournaments get back on the right track up in this area. I was looking at the payout level and a shooter would make triple the amount of money as at an IBO event with the same number of shooters. No waiting on line to shoot. Everyone shoots under the same weather conditions. Pencil pushing and shooting with the buddies is gone. Vendors benefit in that all the shooters are going on and off the courses at the same times.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Dartonman said:


> The more I hear this stuff, the more hopeful I am that the Regions tournaments get back on the right track up in this area. I was looking at the payout level and a shooter would make triple the amount of money as at an IBO event with the same number of shooters. No waiting on line to shoot. Everyone shoots under the same weather conditions. Pencil pushing and shooting with the buddies is gone. Vendors benefit in that all the shooters are going on and off the courses at the same times.


When Regions pulled out of the 2nd year in Warren, it left a lot of people feeling like the rug got pulled out from under them. I was one of those people. I truly enjoyed the Regions shoots that I attended and felt as if the organization wanted to hear how they could make the shooter's experience even better. I wanted to keep the shoot here close to home for a few more years. It's always nice having a number of shoots within travel distance and I believe that alone is why many continue to give the IBO any money at all. 
The fact that it is the only game in town has kept them safe up to this point. It definitely has nothing to do with their ability to please the shooters!! So yes, if Regions would decide to give the north another go, and promised to put 2-3 shoots up in this area, I would jump in and do what is needed to help promote the return. I have completely given up on the IBO and their ridiculous politics. So it will be more travel time south, or assist in helping something get going in the north..


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

hrtlnd164 said:


> When Regions pulled out of the 2nd year in Warren, it left a lot of people feeling like the rug got pulled out from under them. I was one of those people. I truly enjoyed the Regions shoots that I attended and felt as if the organization wanted to hear how they could make the shooter's experience even better. I wanted to keep the shoot here close to home for a few more years. It's always nice having a number of shoots within travel distance and I believe that alone is why many continue to give the IBO any money at all.
> The fact that it is the only game in town has kept them safe up to this point. It definitely has nothing to do with their ability to please the shooters!! So yes, if Regions would decide to give the north another go, and promised to put 2-3 shoots up in this area, I would jump in and do what is needed to help promote the return. I have completely given up on the IBO and their ridiculous politics. So it will be more travel time south, or assist in helping something get going in the north..


Are you listening, Richard?


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

hrtlnd164 said:


> When Regions pulled out of the 2nd year in Warren, it left a lot of people feeling like the rug got pulled out from under them. I was one of those people. I truly enjoyed the Regions shoots that I attended and felt as if the organization wanted to hear how they could make the shooter's experience even better. I wanted to keep the shoot here close to home for a few more years. It's always nice having a number of shoots within travel distance and I believe that alone is why many continue to give the IBO any money at all.
> The fact that it is the only game in town has kept them safe up to this point. It definitely has nothing to do with their ability to please the shooters!! So yes, if Regions would decide to give the north another go, and promised to put 2-3 shoots up in this area, I would jump in and do what is needed to help promote the return. I have completely given up on the IBO and their ridiculous politics. So it will be more travel time south, or assist in helping something get going in the north..


 After another BOD. disaster and a true lack of leadership skills I have already decided this year will be my last IBO worlds I can't see going to a so called world class event when I can shoot club shoots that pay better!!!!!


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## tkasten (Jul 16, 2006)

Why Regions? Bring ASA/Pro Ams up North.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

tkasten said:


> Why Regions? Bring ASA/Pro Ams up North.


The ASA coming north would be great, but I have my doubts it will ever happen. They already have a shoot at proven locations every month from Feb-Aug, doubt they could or would try to replace any of these or try to add even more events to their schedule. The requirements for an ASA event limit location choices, 400 acres, parking for 1000 vehicles and motel accomadations within 20 minutes.. Hard to cover that in most places. And finally ASA rules, namely speed limits, are an issue in the north. Not sure why people don't understand how easy it is to slow down a bow but they just don't want to. ASA is the best org in 3D, just not the best fit for the northern shooters. Not saying Regions is the answer but someone needs to throw their hat in the ring up here. Shooters just want someone to give them a quality experience and not the crap associated with the IBO as of late..


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## huntin_addict (Jan 25, 2006)

Gave up on ibo about 5 years ago. They won't get one more dime of my money, I work too darn hard for it.


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

hrtlnd164 said:


> The ASA coming north would be great, but I have my doubts it will ever happen. They already have a shoot at proven locations every month from Feb-Aug, doubt they could or would try to replace any of these or try to add even more events to their schedule. The requirements for an ASA event limit location choices, 400 acres, parking for 1000 vehicles and motel accomadations within 20 minutes.. Hard to cover that in most places. And finally ASA rules, namely speed limits, are an issue in the north. Not sure why people don't understand how easy it is to slow down a bow but they just don't want to. ASA is the best org in 3D, just not the best fit for the northern shooters. Not saying Regions is the answer but someone needs to throw their hat in the ring up here. Shooters just want someone to give them a quality experience and not the crap associated with the IBO as of late..


SOMEONE IS THROWING THEIR HAT IN THE RING
ont3d.com
facebook.com/ont3d


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## ibo73503 (Nov 26, 2009)

Topper1018, I visited your web site and it looks like you guys are very organized and have your ducks in a row. BUT, for most of the Midwestern ibo shooters it looks like the distances to your shoots would be comparable or even farther than most asa shoots. You are basically running a Canadian version of the asa, so if I am going to drive that far I may as well not deal with crossing the border and go down south to the actual asa shoots. Or are you talking about maybe bring something south of the border?


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## DSkjeie (May 10, 2014)

I wouldn't say Canadian. I would say eastern Canadian. Not much out here in the western part of Canada. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

ibo73503 said:


> Topper1018, I visited your web site and it looks like you guys are very organized and have your ducks in a row. BUT, for most of the Midwestern ibo shooters it looks like the distances to your shoots would be comparable or even farther than most asa shoots. You are basically running a Canadian version of the asa, so if I am going to drive that far I may as well not deal with crossing the border and go down south to the actual asa shoots. Or are you talking about maybe bring something south of the border?


We are in our infancy, that part cant be denied. BUT i believe we are on the right track to building a very successful organization. Our 2016 season just came to a close and we hit nearly 50% growth. Our payback is the HIGHEST in the game. 80%. 70 off the top and 10% to SOTY. With the great feedback we have had from this season, future potential growth could definately lead us into the northern US. BUT, we must first reach a supported size to warrant that step. We have been so happy to see a few Americans make the journey up to shoot with us, all who have expressed deep interest in returning for our 2017 Season. 
As Ive said before, help us grow and we will show you what the northern archery landscape can be.

Also, with regards to the ASA. I have the deepest respect for Mike and Lorraine at the ASA. what they have accomplished in the south is nothing short of inspirational. In fact, we have tabled ideas of sending an ONT3D team to ASA pro ams in the future, to show them we support them up here too. We take a lot of the successful structure laid out by the asa and apply our own identity. Again in the most respectful way possible, we are not the ASA. We just want to show northern shooters it CAN be like that up here too.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Your organization looks awesome. Not to bad to travel from Pa...little concern about the border crossing. I hope you continue to grow and prosper.

Seems that for many of us 20+year IBO'rs the Regions option would be a good alternative without as much travel as Canada. I'm holding out hope that Regions will get this area scheduled for 2017 shoots. I actually like the idea of having an option to travel for one final that has representatives from all over the country. More of a true championship forum.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Topper, you folks look like you truly want to grow and are doing things right. Congrats on your efforts, they look like some fine shoots in some very nice venues. I wish you folks continued growth. That said, the border crossing does deter some of us from the state's. I know just from my past experiences, I have not met many friendly faces in those 3x5 glass boxes at the border.. 75% of the time it turns into a hassle. May have to give it another try, would love to see one of your weekend experiences..


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## Topper1018 (Feb 19, 2013)

hrtlnd164 said:


> Topper, you folks look like you truly want to grow and are doing things right. Congrats on your efforts, they look like some fine shoots in some very nice venues. I wish you folks continued growth. That said, the border crossing does deter some of us from the state's. I know just from my past experiences, I have not met many friendly faces in those 3x5 glass boxes at the border.. 75% of the time it turns into a hassle. May have to give it another try, would love to see one of your weekend experiences..


While it is tough to find a border worker with a sense of humour, just tell them your headed to an archery event with ONT3D. If enough guys are doing it they will get the hint


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## jimb2 (Aug 27, 2016)

Topper1018 said:


> While it is tough to find a border worker with a sense of humour, just tell them your headed to an archery event with ONT3D. If enough guys are doing it they will get the hint


I never had a problem getting into Canada, getting back into the States was the problem.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

jimb2 said:


> I never had a problem getting into Canada, getting back into the States was the problem.


same here!


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

You think its bad now...wait till we build a wall :wink:


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## bsharkey (Apr 27, 2009)

Dartonman said:


> You think its bad now...wait till we build a wall :wink:


now we are building a wall to keep Canadians out?


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

lame attempt at political humor....i guess the candidates are enough of a joke


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

outbackarcher said:


> The money classes will have their own range.



Just some friendly advice Larry please don't take this the wrong way.

I have been shooting IBO since 1994. The IBO as it stands today is a far cry from the IBO of yesteryear.

Myself and others would love for you to abandon IBO and team up with Regions using Pipestem as one of the Regions shoot sites. Your time and efforts would be much better served endeavoring towards something that shooters prefer.

I admire your tenacity Larry but you can't fix stupid.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

I started shooting IBO a bit earlier that and I agree completely. IMO the "north" would be better off if the IBO just went away and a new/different organization that isn't so regressive showed all those who only shoot IBO how a tournament series "should" be run.

As far as I'm concerned, the whole lot are "duds". We've heard from insiders that "known distance" classes is the most discussed topic yet hear we are yet another year later with no progress because they can't figure out the logistics. Baloney, they (collectively) either don't want it, or they're incompetent... and the sooner current members stop paying dues and attending their events, the sooner we'll have something worthwhile. Stop propping them up guys, you're only enabling the current leadership to keep ignoring you.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Speaking with Regions last week and they already have one location locked in for july in Pa and are meeting with several others in W Va, Ohio and NY. I am going to plan to support this organization that has already proved that they are open to hearing what the shooters want. I am hopeful that all the Senior open shooters that have expressed their displeasure with IBO will come and give these guys a try. Not sure how I'm going to handle no waiting on line for 90 minutes to shoot my first target....getting done with 20 targets in 3.5 hours.....having someone listen to constructive feedback.....being paid double or triple when placing it the top ranks


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

If Regions was smart they should just take the old IBO sites. Bedford, IN, Erie, PA, Nelsonville, OH, and possibly a classic type shoot at Pipestem. 

This way you have places where a lot of the ground work is done as far as ranges and shooting lanes, plus you get the added benefit of people being familiar with the sites.


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## allxs (Mar 10, 2005)

IRISH_11 said:


> If Regions was smart they should just take the old IBO sites. Bedford, IN, Erie, PA, Nelsonville, OH, and possibly a classic type shoot at Pipestem.
> 
> This way you have places where a lot of the ground work is done as far as ranges and shooting lanes, plus you get the added benefit of people being familiar with the sites.


Ding, Ding, Ding ... We have a winner! I think that would be an excellent idea for Regions or OPA or someone else.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

That's a good idea but not sure how that would work. I think the good ole boys club BOD that ran the IBO were members of these clubs....thus the cash cow arrangement. I'll ask Dick at Regions if he has considered that.


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## nochance (Nov 27, 2008)

thought Pa was locked in before with regions, then they moved it on relatively short notice?


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Not sure about that. I shot a Regions in Warren Pa a few years ago and it was a great shoot. Then they moved south. Looks like they are motivated to offer the Northeast an alternative to the IBO/club shoot type.


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

I'm sure I speak for the majority when I say that if Regions held shoots in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana on the same dates as IBO that more would attend the Regions shoots than the IBO shoots.


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## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

IRISH_11 said:


> I'm sure I speak for the majority when I say that if Regions held shoots in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana on the same dates as IBO that more would attend the Regions shoots than the IBO shoots.


I'd be in.....


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

IRISH_11 said:


> I'm sure I speak for the majority when I say that if Regions held shoots in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana on the same dates as IBO that more would attend the Regions shoots than the IBO shoots.


I agree, but it seemed a lot of folks made a bunch of excuses why they didn't support them the first time they were here in the Northeast. Throughout the recent discussions it seems that Regions has seen the need for a multiple shoot series up here and are working hard to secure the locations. So I am jumping in again to promote, schedule, answer questions...whatever it takes to see if we can get an option for those that are looking for one.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

IRISH_11 said:


> I'm sure I speak for the majority when I say that if Regions held shoots in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana on the same dates as IBO that more would attend the Regions shoots than the IBO shoots.


IMO it would be better if it was on a different date so IBO'ers that don't know how lame IBO is have an opportunity to experience the other tournaments without having to choose between what the are familiar with..,.and something new. Once they shoot something other than IBO, they'll better understand the IBO deficiencies.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

nestly said:


> IMO it would be better if it was on a different date so IBO'ers that don't know how lame IBO is have an opportunity to experience the other tournaments without having to choose between what the are familiar with..,.and something new. Once they shoot something other than IBO, they'll better understand the IBO deficiencies.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk




I agree. It's just with today's economy some cannot afford multiple venues.

I believe that if people who have never attended an IBO do enough research like typing in IBO in the search box on AT they will see pretty clearly that a lot of people are not happy with the IBO shoots.

On the flip side you don't see too much negative publicity about ASA or Regions.

IMO the only thing that hurts Regions is the fact that they are constantly moving around. I believe they have spread themselves to thin. If Dick would concentrate his efforts in the states of Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia and have shoots at the same sites every year for 3 years he would start to see the growth he desires. You have to have a solid foundation before you can branch out. For now he needs to concentrate on the states with the most bowhunters. Just my 2 cents.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

I think there may be a possibility that the regions shoots in the north will be scheduled one week prior to IBO shoots. Those who have done both will know the advantages and hopefully encourage ibo'rs to give it a try. 

I'm convinced that an organization that is responsive to its members will prove that the ibo's repeate abuse of members is business suicide


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## wannaBelkhuntin (Jul 3, 2006)

Trying to shoot the same weekend as the IBO would be stupid. I would go to the IBO shoot, no chance I am going to an unknown shoot with a poor history at best up here. Now if they are on a different weekend count me in, I shoot every weekend whether it is local, state or national level. I would prefer 2 weeks different than the IBO.

Also I know that Regions was at Warren a few years ago and didn't come back but let's remember that the IBO was at Warren this year and isn't going back. I like Warren but it is in the middle of nowhere, and I think I would skip Gem City [Erie] also although I think Presque Isle Field Archers would be a great choice if they wanted to go to Erie, This is where the Pros shot at for the IBO shoots held at Gem City. No offense to the crew at GC but PIFA has a better [DRYER] piece of property although I don't know if they have enough property. 

And one last plug for Ellicottville to replace Warren for next year.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

IRISH_11 said:


> I'm sure I speak for the majority when I say that if Regions held shoots in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana on the same dates as IBO that more would attend the Regions shoots than the IBO shoots.


They are looking for sights in Pa Ohio and Virginia I'm in for regions and ONT3d for 2017


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

I'm done with IBO until/unless they make SIGNIFICANT changes (not holding my breath). 

I'm hopeful that Regions and/or Ont3D will bring events into this area, I'll attend them and do everything I can to promote them.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

treeman65 said:


> They are looking for sights in Pa Ohio and Virginia I'm in for regions and ONT3d for 2017


In VA I would be looking for something in the north west part. It wouldn't be far for a lot of current IBO archers.


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> In VA I would be looking for something in the north west part. It wouldn't be far for a lot of current IBO archers.



From what I was always told, ASA had a real nice venue in Va... Somewhere around Roanoke I believe


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

3dbowmaster said:


> From what I was always told, ASA had a real nice venue in Va... Somewhere around Roanoke I believe


I shot Trebark ASA Pro/Am at Smith Mountain Lake/Roanoke ...more than once I believe...









Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## SWAG (Jul 15, 2012)

I don't see where adding more classes helps anything. If they want to eliminate the trophy classes then just abolish them. With the small payback % and the huge number of classes, a guy still won't be able to win a money class and cover his expenses, which is pretty sad in my opinion. Not that anyone is going to make a career out of it anyway, except maybe for a couple pros. How about paying out to the top spots then just give out $2 participation trophies to the rest of the class? Basically, to win a trophy class just means that you are the best of the worst anyway. I know the economy has changed and most have adapted to it but in the 90's there weren't half as many classes and 5 times the amount of shooters.


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

I agree that there are too many classes, but the same can be said for ASA, yet payback there is great. IBO is "in it" solely for the benefit of the IBO. ASA is also "in it" for the benefit of the ASA, but they realize that the more they give to the archers, the more archers will support them. One model works well, the other not so much.


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## Dartonman (Sep 9, 2002)

Looks like Regions is becoming a reality for us IBO guys in the northeast. So far they have two locations locked in. I like the idea of winning twice as much money even if you have half as many shooters in a class. IBO should be ashamed that they haven't addressed this issue.


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## woodsman78 (Jan 26, 2004)

Dartonman said:


> Looks like Regions is becoming a reality for us IBO guys in the northeast. So far they have two locations locked in. I like the idea of winning twice as much money even if you have half as many shooters in a class. IBO should be ashamed that they haven't addressed this issue.


What locations have they locked in around PA.?


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## arrowpuller (May 14, 2007)

Yes, spill the beans...what are the two locations in the northeast..??? any idea what months..???


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## db102550 (Sep 20, 2011)

Because up here in the North we don't have a choice; no ASA shoots.


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## AAOutdoors (Feb 20, 2014)

I like everyone would love to see some ASA stuff in the north

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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

AAOutdoors said:


> I like everyone would love to see some ASA stuff in the north
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


Regions is set for Butler Pa.


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

I tried a ASA State Shoot in Western Pa. a few years ago and a bunch of guys said they were coming. It turned out 50 guys showed up . Most guys said they wanted to come but they didn't want to mess with there bow getting it down to 290 fps for one shoot. I Tried and it failed, so much for ASA. Regions came to Warren and I thought it was a good shoot. We tried hard to support it and really got the word out and I would say it was a success with probally the next year going to being a lot better. They left us for the south so my say is screw them.They can stay down there. I won't support them.
IBO is the northeast. It appears to me they are listening. I see changes being made. A step in the right direction. This be good because I don't want to drive 15-20 hours to shoot a 3d shoot.


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