# Archer's Mark :-)



## pragmatic_lee

OK, I know everyone is getting anxious, but good things come to those that wait. :wink:

Been doing some proof reading on the "Help" file while the "developers" are putting the finishing touches on the application.

I still don't have a release date for you, but it shouldn't be long.

In addition to the work being done for the Archer's Mark (AM) iPhone/Touch version, I am also working on a Windows version (AM_Win). Am_Win will be free to anyone who purchases the "mobile" version. The purpose of AM_Win is to print "back-up" marks cards and sight tapes. All the "logic" is done, just have to work on the user interface (UI) and probably the hardest part of all - getting the sight tapes to line up correctly for every possible printer. 

Be patient - :wink:


----------



## rock monkey

yeah, but what about us webOS guys? :wink:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Just got an email from the developers. Archer's Mark has been submitted to Apple and if "approved" should be on the Apple Store (iTunes) by Nov. 10.


----------



## 10xring

Now you need to make an archery timer for the iPhone!


----------



## pragmatic_lee

10xring said:


> Now you need to make an archery timer for the iPhone!


Might be kinda hard for the line to see it. :shade:

Actually, I have a timer on mine already - don't remember the name of it right now, but will check and post back.


----------



## 10xring

pragmatic_lee said:


> Might be kinda hard for the line to see it. :shade:
> 
> Actually, I have a timer on mine already - don't remember the name of it right now, but will check and post back.


I agree about other people seeing it, but I was actually thinking more about a person practicing than at a formal shoot. 

Some clubs and places that people shoot during the week for practice do not have timers up and running all the time. This way, you get used to shooting under a clock, and when the time comes to shoot an offical shoot under a clock, you are not as nervous.

You make it and I'll get one!


----------



## pragmatic_lee

10xring said:


> I agree about other people seeing it, but I was actually thinking more about a person practicing than at a formal shoot.
> 
> Some clubs and places that people shoot during the week for practice do not have timers up and running all the time. This way, you get used to shooting under a clock, and when the time comes to shoot an offical shoot under a clock, you are not as nervous.
> 
> You make it and I'll get one!


The "Clock" application that came on my iPod Touch has among other things an Alarm, Stopwatch, & Timer. The Timer would be exactly what you need.


----------



## JayMc

I use the timer on my watch. I set it for the max time and hit start. I'm working on slowing down right now. It's taking me less than 2 min to shoot 5 arrows for 5 spot :embara:

I'm patiently waiting on Archer's Mark though


----------



## pragmatic_lee

A search of the iTunes Store using "Archer's Mark" will return some "nice" results. :thumbs_up

App has been approved by Apple and is available for purchase. 

I wasn't going to post this just yet so I could be the first to buy, but I have to uninstall my beta version first. So who's going to be first now? :shade:


----------



## JayMc

I almost pestered you about it this weekend. I just bought it and it's downloading right now. :darkbeer:

I'm going to pester the heck out of you with questions


----------



## Bob_Looney

What does the app do?

is it "just" a sight tape program (Archers Advantage) ?


----------



## south-paaw

Bob_Looney said:


> What does the app do?
> 
> is it "just" a sight tape program (Archers Advantage) ?





PHP:






chk it here...


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1010273

may have been another thread as well... but i remember this one..


----------



## imott

Got my copy!!!

Nice!!!

One suggestion...

Add arrow velocity to the bow setup. I often use my 20 yard mark and the arrow velocity to make my marks.

I like it none-the-less!!!

Great job!

Thanks!


----------



## JayMc

imott said:


> Got my copy!!!
> 
> Nice!!!
> 
> One suggestion...
> 
> Add arrow velocity to the bow setup. I often use my 20 yard mark and the arrow velocity to make my marks.
> 
> I like it none-the-less!!!
> 
> Great job!
> 
> Thanks!


That would be nice.

Then a way to store ranges in target order with cuts would be outstanding.

A scoring application added in would be the ticket.

Hold on, I'll think of some more wish list items


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark is now available for the iPhone iPod/Touch*

Thank you all for the great suggestions.

As Prag mentioned Archer's Mark went live on Monday morning. For more info feel free to visit our application site: http://www.ffxcorp.com/am

Tomorrow I'll start gathering all of your outstanding input and begin adding it to our future feature plans.

Next month Archery Magazine (Dec/January issue) should carry an article on iPhone Apps and it provides a nice overview of AM along with several other applications for scoring.

Finally, I'd like to thank Prag, Jarlicker, Macaholic and Fast Eddie for all their input and feedback. 

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Please reference this thread in the Manufacturers Announcement forum. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1056156777#post1056156777


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Try this link if the above doesn't work

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1065719


----------



## WrongdayJ

JayMc said:


> . . .a way to store ranges in target order with cuts would be outstanding. . . .a scoring application added in would be the ticket. . .


I was thinking the same thing. 

I think an application that does the sight marks on the itouch/iphone platform is very cool, but storage of the data (for the individual course) and a built-in scorecard application would make this app THE archery accessory.


----------



## Scott.Barrett

Blackberry Storm version?

Is it usable during FITA shoots? I thought the NAA had a no electronics policy.....

Looks awesome!


----------



## pragmatic_lee

WrongdayJ said:


> I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> I think an application that does the sight marks on the itouch/iphone platform is very cool, but storage of the data (for the individual course) and a built-in scorecard application would make this app THE archery accessory.


Discussion is already underway on the best format to store courses. Each "record" would consist of 14 entries and their respective distance(s) and angles.



Scott.Barrett said:


> Blackberry Storm version?
> 
> Is it usable during FITA shoots? I thought the NAA had a no electronics policy.....
> 
> Looks awesome!


Don't know about use in FITA or NAA; however, I am working hard on a Windows desktop version that will use the same algorithms and produce mark cards and sight tapes. This will be "free" to those who have purchased AM through the iTunes store.

Much of the user interface and features of AM depend on the "abilities" of the iPhone/Touch; therefore, I doubt there will be a BlackBerry port - at least not right now.


----------



## archerpap

I downloaded the app onto my iPod touch. Actually had to update mine to the newer version..3.1 for $5 but no biggie. I entered the info I had in AA into their program, and the marks are pretty darn close. NOW if I wasn't set up for 27's and indoors, I'm really going to be itching to get outside and shoot my protours and see how awesome this program is. The only hard part is not listening to my misuc while shooting. I'd probably run the charge down, and end up not being able to shoot the second half because of not being able to get my marks!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jarlicker

This entire process of getting this program up and running was really fun to take part in. Being a totally non computer geek type. It was fun to here all the interactions between all these guys. We have a neat bunch of characters that we hang with. The ongoing issues of what I felt were going to be the main stubbling blocks were very difficult for the guys to handle. They continued to upgrade they way the processes were happening. They really just had a dire need to get this program up and out onto the market. We have already provided the main developers a wide range of directions to take if they choose to have additional upgrades. Fortunatly for the consumers these are the type of people that are hardly ever truely satisfied.
True developers at heart. Each and everyone a good friend. I was thrilled they allowed me to take part. For once in my life I felt like a problem finder not the lonely problem solver. Good job guys. Know get out a fling some arrows.


----------



## BowDadToo

*It's nice to be back in the office.*

First, the BB Storm. My daughter got one over the weekend and I'll look into it, no promises. Frankly while the Blackberry product line is very popular the end user application market is not. For example there are over 100,000 iPhone apps and under 5,000 Blackberry apps. Would you pay $20 for a BB app? Have you ever bought a native BB app? I had two BBs over three years and never bought a native BB app. This may be a BB culture issue. If there really appears to be a market I'll seriously look into it. 

Jarlicker you are always an enormous font of archery information and it was thrilling to have you as an integral part of the test team and I look forward to working with you as we shape version two.

As for course support, it's been on my list since June, but AM would have never made it out with that as a version one feature. It will likely be the major feature of version two. 

Hopefully you noticed my use of the word likely, is scoring your ends more important than course support? Suppose we added an in-app feature purchase that supported an integrated graphical scoring application akin to TargetMate (it's the best on iTunes). Frankly we could license the TargetMate code from the author, but he'd get most of the new feature revenue, and this could be available in a very short time. Is this something of interest to you guys?


----------



## BowDadToo

*Music & AM*



archerpap said:


> I downloaded the app onto my iPod touch. Actually had to update mine to the newer version..3.1 for $5 but no biggie. I entered the info I had in AA into their program, and the marks are pretty darn close. NOW if I wasn't set up for 27's and indoors, I'm really going to be itching to get outside and shoot my protours and see how awesome this program is. The only hard part is not listening to my misuc while shooting. I'd probably run the charge down, and end up not being able to shoot the second half because of not being able to get my marks!!!!!!!!!


You can actually listen to your tunes and AM will still run in the foreground. I make no promises on battery life though


----------



## BowDadToo

*Using one mark and velocity*



JayMc said:


> That would be nice.
> 
> Then a way to store ranges in target order with cuts would be outstanding.
> 
> A scoring application added in would be the ticket.
> 
> Hold on, I'll think of some more wish list items


This wouldn't be hard to support from a user interface perspective, and the calculations are already very well understood. When you use the one sight mark and velocity method are you using one of those radar units that mount to the bow? I've played with one at our local indoor range and they are extremely consistent. Is this a common method? I know TAP and AA both support it.


----------



## JayMc

BowDadToo said:


> Hopefully you noticed my use of the word likely, is scoring your ends more important than course support? Suppose we added an in-app feature purchase that supported an integrated graphical scoring application akin to TargetMate (it's the best on iTunes). Frankly we could license the TargetMate code from the author, but he'd get most of the new feature revenue, and this could be available in a very short time. Is this something of interest to you guys?


Yes, it is of interest!


----------



## BowDadToo

BowDadToo said:


> This wouldn't be hard to support from a user interface perspective, and the calculations are already very well understood. When you use the one sight mark and velocity method are you using one of those radar units that mount to the bow? I've played with one at our local indoor range and they are extremely consistent. Is this a common method? I know TAP and AA both support it.


oops, quoted wrong reference, sorry. This was addressing using arrow velocity and one sight mark as a setup method.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Wishes, hopes and dreams.*



JayMc said:


> Yes, it is of interest!


Here is where we are tracking our list of future features.

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/wishlist.html

Your request is currently at the top.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Here is where we are tracking our list of future features.
> 
> http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/wishlist.html
> 
> Your request is currently at the top.


Well what are you waiting on Scott - get busy. 

Folks, I promise that by the time outdoor season starts again (in the US), I will have the AM_Win version ready for your Windows desktop computer. This will use the same algorithms as AM on iPhone/Touch. The purpose of this program will be to print mark cards for backups and events where electronic devices aren't allowed. It will also print sight tapes. 

BTW: The Windows version will be free to all who purchase the app from iTunes. :shade:


----------



## JayMc

pragmatic_lee said:


> Well what are you waiting on Scott - get busy.
> 
> BTW: The Windows version will be free to all who purchase the app from iTunes. :shade:


Sweet :darkbeer:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

*AM makes front page of iTunes store*


----------



## Scott.Barrett

used mine yesterday for the first time....works like a champ! Every mark was spot on!


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Scott.Barrett said:


> used mine yesterday for the first time....works like a champ! Every mark was spot on!


Great to hear Scott - I was a little "concerned" the first time I saw the birdie marks AM generated, but after trying them I found them to be "spot on".


----------



## BowDadToo

Scott,

Thrilled to hear you're happy with it, please consider posting a positive review.

--Scott


----------



## X-Ray

*Droid*

would this app work on the droid? :darkbeer:
if it would I could see me buying one... otherwise..


----------



## pragmatic_lee

X-Ray said:


> would this app work on the droid? :darkbeer:
> if it would I could see me buying one... otherwise..


Other platforms, including desktops/laptops, are being considered, but for now AM is exclusive to the iPhone & iPod Touch. 

Stay tuned :wink:


----------



## BowDadToo

X-Ray said:


> would this app work on the droid?


The next mobile platform would be a droid, we've been considering it.


----------



## drockw

BowDadToo said:


> The next mobile platform would be a droid, we've been considering it.


I have a feeling the Droid will be HUGE! Good thinking.


----------



## BowDadToo

Because Android, the underlying operating system, spans so many devices and a wide number of manufacturers it will pose the most significant competition to the iPhone from a wide variety of fronts. If we code for Android we can load in a device profile for the Droid and tune our app for that specific platform. We can then load in other device profiles, like for example a tablet that is being shown around or other hot new phones, and tune the code to support these devices as well.

Droid and similar products may very well replace Blackberry as the #2 smartphone platform. On a weekly basis I review an industry report that tracks this data. For example RIM's Q4 build volume for Blackberry units will be between 9.1 and 9.9 million units or 750K total unit/week across their entire family of products. While Motorola sold only 200K units the week the Droid was announced they're expecting 1.1 to 1.5 million units through the end of the year or 250K units/week for a single product. Note there are roughly 50 Android based competitors to the Droid are/will ship in the next quarter world-wide. So Android is clearly the next big platform.

The Android Martketplace, the other App store, went from 12K apps in October to 15K in November. Sometime in late October Apple past 100K apps and they have had a number of days in November where they were approving over 2K Apps/day. Now as we know first hand some of those are updates to existing Apps. We're here and we'll continue to innovate on this platform, but Android is now getting serious consideration.

Sorry Blackberry users. Most Blackberry users rarely purchase apps and the arrangement RIM offers and the market conditions aren't nearly as attractive.


----------



## X-Ray

*droid*

as soon as you get an app for the droid I am throwing my money down on it! 
:darkbeer:


----------



## Scott.Barrett

Scott.Barrett said:


> used mine yesterday for the first time....works like a champ! Every mark was spot on!



Let me put this as succinctly as I can....this app saved my ***** at the NAFAC!!!! I could not get my site tape working right on day two and I was hitting all over the place. On a long walkup in the hunter round I got a 16 and thought I was done. Pulled out the iTouch and pulled up Archer's Mark and knew I had a solid 20, so I used the next two fans to get some other marks in and I was back in the game!

The app worked great and the only thing I can suggest is the ability to override the 2 Setup shot in marks from the main screen. Perhaps an option to override all marks greater than the one being set....

Guys....great app! I would highly recommend it!

SB


----------



## BowDadToo

Scott,

Excellent news, thank you. I'll look into your suggestion.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark Version 2*

Guys, 

As some of you who've already purchased Archer's Mark already know we had designed the app initially to support Field and Hunter games as this is what we shoot. For everyone else, and metric we provided the All button. This is clearly not the best solution, and that's what version 2 is for.

In Version 2, which will be a free upgrade, there will be two major improvements: FITA games and marks card printing. We've nearly completed the printing code, but we still need to properly define the FITA support, we could also add Imperial support if requested by your brethren overseas. We're also trying to get some suggestions from the boys down under as well.

We could do a single FITA button with the following ranges:
90M, 70M, 60M, 50M, 40M, 30M, 25M, 20M, 18M, 15M, 10M. Would this cover most of the outdoor/indoor ranges required? Would this mix and order be the best solution? If not, what would you like to see?

What are your thoughts? We really want to make sure we're designing AM to meet the needs of the archery community world-wide.

Thank you and happy holidays.


----------



## WrongdayJ

As stated before- I would buy this app right now if it only had a score card function. Something that would record my scores as I shot them. 

That way people who shot pins, Barebow, or a slider type sight would also find the app functional.

This is not a criticism, though. I think the app has the potential to get HUGE.


----------



## BowDadToo

WrongdayJ said:


> As stated before- I would buy this app right now if it only had a score card function. Something that would record my scores as I shot them.
> 
> That way people who shot pins, Barebow, or a slider type sight would also find the app functional.
> 
> This is not a criticism, though. I think the app has the potential to get HUGE.


Excellent idea, thank you. It's on the list:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/wishlist.html 

We had at one point pondered another name for the app so that other more general features, like scoring, could be added in a future release.

Thanks for your insights.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Version 1.2 Available in the next few days.*

Fellow archers version 1.2 of Archer's Mark (AM) which includes printing a backup marks card via an emailed PDF should be available for download from Apple in the next few days. Please let us know what you think.

Version 1.2 is also the first version sponsored by Lancaster Archery Supply. We'd like to thank Rob and his team for further supporting AM so that we can continue to improve the application and make it something every target archer relies on to be the best they can.

Thank you all for your help and support.
--Scott


----------



## Spoon13

BowDadToo said:


> Fellow archers version 1.2 of Archer's Mark (AM) which includes printing a backup marks card via an emailed PDF should be available for download from Apple in the next few days. Please let us know what you think.
> 
> Version 1.2 is also the first version sponsored by Lancaster Archery Supply. We'd like to thank Rob and his team for further supporting AM so that we can continue to improve the application and make it something every target archer relies on to be the best they can.
> 
> Thank you all for your help and support.
> --Scott



Just downloaded it today. Thanks for keeping IT and US updated!!!!


----------



## DarkFORCE

One thing I would like in this program is support for Larger Arrows.

I am currently shooting 2712 with 275gr points. AA shows my arrow weight around 706gr but max in AM is 500. Also the max dia is .4 and 2712 are .421.

Normally I shoot smaller arrows but I am practicing for Vegas. The reason I would like this support is after practicing for a while my 5 year old little girls loves walking the field range. So I take her and now walk up almost ever target to shoot around the 20yd mark. It would be nice to shoot stuff say 15-45 yards so I don't need to walk up on all the targets.

Thanks.


----------



## beard99

*more numbers*

we go to shoots that have yardages from 2.5 to 123. we need more Yardages and half yard options. Please


----------



## BowDadToo

*More on ranges*

Today the "All" tab shows ranges from 6 yards out 110 yards. Let's first explore why 6 yards.

From 6 yards down to 2 yards sight marks change dramatically with every decrease in range by one foot. The accuracy of generating these sight marks has almost nothing to do with ballistics, and relies entirely on accurate measurements and trigonometry. Only two precise measurements are needed at full draw, peep to pin and peep to center of your arrow. The more exact these are the better your near marks will be.

Let's do a simple thought exercise to understand what's really happening this close up, I had to develop several of these when designing Archer's Mark in order to grasp how to setup the necessary calculations.

First let's set our imaginary peep sight at exactly four inches above the centerline of our arrow at full draw. Second, at full draw, and with your arrow level let's assume that your sight bar extends your scope in front of your riser so that your pin and your arrow point at full draw form a perfectly vertical line. All of this is possible, and likely pretty common.

Imagine if you will that the tip of your arrow at full draw is just touching the face of the target at a range of 0 yards, how would you sight in on this point? The same way you sight in on any range (neglecting arrow drop of course). You slide you scope down until your peep, the dot on your scope and the X on target form a single line. At this point someone is going to ask why don't you slide your scope up? If you slide it up so the X, the dot on your sight, and peep align your arrow point will be nearly 4 inches below the X, nearly the same distance as your peep is off the back of your arrow. 

So we've slid our scope down now to align with the X on the target face. At this instant your arrow point and the dot on the glass of your scope would all have to be at the same point, which of course isn't practical, but this is a thought exercise so it's not an issue. What would your scope mark be? In the simplest terms it would roughly be 96 numbers larger (4" x 24 numbers/inch) than your mark for 10 yards (typically the lowest value in a sight mark curve). So if your 10 yard mark were 20 then to shoot at 0 yards your scope would have to be set at 116. That's 4.83" of travel so you'll need the 550 series Sureloc  

So at a range of say 6' your scope may have traveled up just enough so that your arrow shaft and point isn't going to interfere with your scope. The fletching on your arrow could still be an issue.

The difference between a range of say 0 feet and 6 feet could be huge on your sight. Some marks programs won't report below 6' because there's little or no value in it and the marks would look wild.

Early in our development we had a sample test bow with a 31" peep to sight that had a scope mark at 6 feet according to AM of 44.6, TAP 83.75 and AA 53.7 (this is with a Sureloc). Note that at 24 threads/inch this translates to a difference between AM and TAP of nearly 1.7" of scope movement at six feet. By 24' all three programs were within 5 clicks 1/25" of scope travel and remained that way out to at least 80 yards. Needless to say we each had our own way of handling very close targets, this was early in our development and things have changed since.

All that aside, you're not the first person to ask for custom ranges. At least a dozen people cornered me at the LAC last month wanting the same thing for similar reasons. Internally we store 6' out to 360' (2- 120 yards) for every bow added. So 2.5 yard, 7.5', would be easy. We're considering possibly having a tab where you can key in a specific range in feet, yards or meters and get back a mark, but it would resolve at the lowest level to the underlying 6'-360' table. If you're request for say 2.5 yards resolved to 7.5' then we'd interpolate between 7' and 8' and return that value.

Your request is on our wishlist. http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/wishlist.html

Now why do these shoots pick 123.5 yards, because most of the marks generating programs go out to 120 yards. This forces you to guess and practice at a range for which you have limited if any data.

The 120 yards is a convention someone picked, and the rest of us followed. To add support beyond 120 yards out to say 130 yards would require making several fundamental changes to my core marks engine. One of my initial approximations to establish some calculation boundaries is based on a range of 400'. I'd have to change that to 500' then I'd likely carry everything out to 450'. That's something I'll need to seriously consider, as it will require extensive retesting if we were to do it.

Hopefully everyone's coffee has kicked in and the above all made sense. If you have any other questions, you know where to ask them, here on AT.

Thank you all for your time and attention.


----------



## tbirdrunner

Just because I'm curious and like technology I decided to try out the new Archery's Mark and compare it to my chart off of Archers Advantage. With out even leaving the connivence of my desk I was able to compare and look at them side by side. Knowing that i have used my friends AA for a while now and that it works and he has been using it for much long and loves it and knows that it works, I decided to see if AM works just as well. One thing that I noticed right away that the mark that it has for my bows speed is off. My friends crono that We run everything off of, is check regularly to make sure that it is on, and my bow is shooting 307 FPS and that is whats in for my AA sheet, but then I look at the AM sheet and it says 314 FPS. that is going to cause some issues at distances. I shoot FITA and field and that is why I'm bringing this up. I'm not saying that anything is wrong or that I'm right, but I was just wondering if I would be able to edit that little detail int he program from my iTouch? I'm sure that program works, I just haven't had a chance to get out and shoot.


----------



## Christopher67

When is there a *Droid* version coming out ?


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Christopher67 said:


> When is there a *Droid* version coming out ?


Stalking practically every AM thread and posting this same question probably isn't helping your cause any. Scott has addressed the Droid question several times already.


----------



## Christopher67

pragmatic_lee said:


> Stalking practically every AM thread and posting this same question probably isn't helping your cause any. Scott has addressed the Droid question several times already.



Stalking every AM thread, *HUH?*


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Christopher67 said:


> Stalking every AM thread, *HUH?*


Sorry had you confused with someone else, but here is Scott's last response to the Droid question
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1057632582&postcount=25


----------



## Christopher67

pragmatic_lee said:


> Sorry had you confused with someone else, but here is Scott's last response to the Droid question
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1057632582&postcount=25



Thanks for that link :thumbs_up


----------



## zerog12avity

*Sight Tape?*

When will we be able to print out sight tapes?


----------



## pragmatic_lee

zerog12avity said:


> When will we be able to print out sight tapes?


The sight tape option is taking longer to develop that I had hoped due to a couple of things: 1) The latest version of AM is "attempting" to send a .csv file that is required by the add in program to produce the sight tape; however, Apple's email program is preventing the 2nd attachment from being sent (the pdf is the first attachment and is being sent without issue 2) I had hope of using JAVA to create a program that would run on the Mac systems as well, but it appears now that I will have to restrict the first release to Windows only


----------



## zerog12avity

yeah... I can get the pdf but the csv didn't come through... I used the program for the first time last Sunday at a shoot. It's accurate!


----------



## pragmatic_lee

zerog12avity said:


> yeah... I can get the pdf but the csv didn't come through... I used the program for the first time last Sunday at a shoot. It's accurate!


Glad to know the marks worked out for you. I used mine all weekend and just wish I could have taken advantage of my good marks. :wink:


----------



## zerog12avity

... would seperating the pdf and csv into two seperate downloads fix this? to be honest the pdf download is of no use to me....


----------



## pragmatic_lee

zerog12avity said:


> ... would seperating the pdf and csv into two seperate downloads fix this? to be honest the pdf download is of no use to me....


In talking with the developers last week, they are pretty sure they have a "work around". It was discussed to send 2 emails, but that would mean a lot more work that would become a moot point once Apple got the email fixed. The work around involves adding some additional text after the 2nd attachment which seems to be working in the development environment. I've managed to get the csv file a couple of times with the current release, but it was kind of hap-hazard. 

But don't over look the usefulness of that PDF. A print out of that PDF would be very useful in your quiver should any thing happen to your iPod/iTouch. While I've never had a battery issue, I do know someone whose device failed on them before the first target. Plus not sure I would want to pull my device out in a major rain storm.


----------



## zerog12avity

Thats a good point.... actually getting my iPhone out at each target then having to "unlocking it" is kind of a pain.... I would rather use the program to print a tape... now is this csv file going to be used to print the tape directly or to import the information into another program such as archers advantage?


----------



## pragmatic_lee

zerog12avity said:


> Thats a good point.... actually getting my iPhone out at each target then having to "unlocking it" is kind of a pain.... I would rather use the program to print a tape... now is this csv file going to be used to print the tape directly or to import the information into another program such as archers advantage?


The csv file will be used by another program that I am writing. It will be a free download once completed. It will simply read the data from the "saved" csv file and produce a sight tape. With the recent release by Apple of the iPad (it uses the same operating system as the iPhone/iPod), I hope that printer support will be added by Apple. If that becomes a reality then the requirement for an external program/computer would become moot and printing sight tapes and/or marks cards could become a part of AM itself.


----------



## webb babcock

Prag, is there a Archers Mark program that will down load to a Dell Axim X51v pocket computer? A program that woud bring up a screen I could lay my sight on to set the sight pin gaps?--Webb Babcock


----------



## pragmatic_lee

webb babcock said:


> Prag, is there a Archers Mark program that will down load to a Dell Axim X51v pocket computer? A program that woud bring up a screen I could lay my sight on to set the sight pin gaps?--Webb Babcock


Archer's Mark is written for the iPad Touch, iPad, and iPhone. It will not run on any other platform.


----------



## webb babcock

Prag, thank you for the info.--webb babcock


----------



## GOT LUCKY

*YOU HAVE A NEW SUPER FAN......Mr. Lucky thinks AM is amazing !!!!*

.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

GOT LUCKY said:


> *YOU HAVE A NEW SUPER FAN......Mr. Lucky thinks AM is amazing !!!!*
> 
> .


Well, it "is" :tongue:


----------



## Iluvatar

I downloaded Archers Mark a couple of weeks ago. I would like to thank everyone involved in it's development. Absolutely a must have app for archer's with iPhones and Target sights. Thanks!


----------



## russch

I purchased the AM early on and used it on my iTouch. Now I would like to install an update if available. How do I do it? Looked at iTunes and could not. Also is one purchase good for an iTouch as well as an additional iPad? Thanks for a good program.


----------



## craigos

pragmatic_lee said:


> OK, I know everyone is getting anxious, but good things come to those that wait. :wink:
> 
> Been doing some proof reading on the "Help" file while the "developers" are putting the finishing touches on the application.
> 
> I still don't have a release date for you, but it shouldn't be long.
> 
> In addition to the work being done for the Archer's Mark (AM) iPhone/Touch version, I am also working on a Windows version (AM_Win). Am_Win will be free to anyone who purchases the "mobile" version. The purpose of AM_Win is to print "back-up" marks cards and sight tapes. All the "logic" is done, just have to work on the user interface (UI) and probably the hardest part of all - getting the sight tapes to line up correctly for every possible printer.
> 
> Be patient - :wink:



Need a Google Android version


----------



## Spoon13

russch said:


> I purchased the AM early on and used it on my iTouch. Now I would like to install an update if available. How do I do it? Looked at iTunes and could not. Also is one purchase good for an iTouch as well as an additional iPad? Thanks for a good program.


The way Apple works is that each purchase is good for ONE account. However you may have multiple devices attached to the same account. If you want to put AM on the iPad, them make sure you log in to the same account that you use for the iTouch and you should be good to go.

As far as the update, on the main screen of the iTouch, you should see the App Store icon. If you open that app, on the bottom right of the screen you will see "Updates". If you are on your Wi-Fi network and press the "Update" button, the iTouch will check and see what apps you have and see if there are updates available. It will then give you a list. Be sure to read the notes on each update. I currently have an app on my iPhone with a pending update. The developers discovered an issue with the update and alerted users NOT to download that update and to wait for the next one that has been submitted to Apple. Once you have done that you can download the updates you want.


----------



## RchurE

Any new news on the sight tape software of the .csv file?


----------



## pragmatic_lee

RchurE said:


> Any new news on the sight tape software of the .csv file?


"Field" tests going really good - really need the Apple email issue resolved or a version of AM that has a work around. Not heard much from BowDadToo of late - I think the kids being out of school has him "over worked". :wink:


----------



## BowDadToo

*Non-Apple Mobile Platform Users*

I'm testing a new version of Archer's Mark designed for mobile web browsers.

Please try out this link on your Android or BBerry device and let me know what you think.

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/test 

Thank you all...

--Scott


----------



## bogenfreak

Hello

I also have AM, and are very amazed how this App works. The only thing I really don´t recognize is how this works with the Clinometer ? How do I have to hold and point my itouch against the target. I re and reread the Instructions, but I don´t know how they mean this. When I hold my itouch in front of me, then there is on the right side a Arrow pointing up where I read "Sight Down - Edge of iphone", but what do I have to do with this ? Do I have to lean it somewhere ? Please help !

Thanks until now.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Guess I can see where this might be a bit confusing. I'll try to get a pix this afternoon of one in use and post it.


----------



## bogenfreak

That would be great :teeth:

Thanks until now !


----------



## bogenfreak

Hello

Did you probably forget me ? Would be great if I could see how to do it.

Thanks !


----------



## pragmatic_lee

bogenfreak said:


> Hello
> 
> Did you probably forget me ? Would be great if I could see how to do it.
> 
> Thanks !


Yea - my memory ain't what it used to be. We spent a little more time at the hospital than expected and then ran into some rush hour RTP traffic. Once we got to the range we spent about 30-40 minutes helping a newbie get going. In the end we only had time to shoot half a 600 round and I completely forgot about getting a pix.

Will see what I can do one afternoon this week.


----------



## IGluIt4U

bogenfreak said:


> Hello
> 
> Did you probably forget me ? Would be great if I could see how to do it.
> 
> Thanks !


 No pics, but I can easily explain it to you... basically when approaching a cut target (up or downhill), go to your distance mark and select the cut function to bring up the inclinometer screen. The button that you see is pressed and held, while sighting down the long side of the iTouch or iPhone, from the pin where you should be standing to the target, either up or downhill. Hold that 'button' until you are lined up on the target along the edge of the device, then let go of the button... it will then ask you to make this an up or downhill cut... once you select this, you will see your new sight setting appear in your mark for that distance.. it will also tell you the angle of compensation if you want to use other reference material to calculate your cuts (cosine, cut sheets from another program, etc.. )

It's pretty quick and simple once you've done it a couple of times... :thumb: (and accurate)


----------



## field14

IGluIt4U.....check your PM and e-mail???? sent you both last evening???

field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## craigos

Should do a server/web app version guys this way you hot all markets together no need for specific versions. Just need a single machine probably to host the service (IAS based) and allow people to log in.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

craigos said:


> Should do a server/web app version guys this way you hot all markets together no need for specific versions. Just need a single machine probably to host the service (IAS based) and allow people to log in.


Ah is this something like you had in mind?
http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web/


----------



## Dra6onX

My sight is a cartel and has 35 marks per inch with 10 turns per mark. Its not the greatest sight but fairly common. I also have a Booster sight on my recurve with similar set up.

Any chance of putting on the wish list aon open entry for marks per inch and turns. Or any ideas how i get round this as I need to put my own marks for every target.

Love the software and cant wait for the sight tape add on. :fencing:

PS: I'm getting the csv e-mailed ok from the app althogh need to send it twice sometimes


----------



## Bob_Looney

Droid app in the works??


----------



## bogenfreak

Sorry - still waiting ...


----------



## BowDadToo

Sorry guys we're not doing a native Droid app, at least for some time. We're wondering if/when they'll get serious about digital rights management and securing apps against piracy. For now we've got a web version available here: http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web

This may be put behind a paypal link though later today to compensate me for the weekends I had to spend in-front of my computer to get this done for those who don't have Apple devices.

--Scott


----------



## 1AZARCHER

20 ft mark is off 3.97 long
35 ft. mark is off 1.34 long 
Is there a fix? 
Other then shooting each mark in.


----------



## BowDadToo

1AZARCHER,

First, I'm assuming by long you're comparing the computed AM value to what actually produces an X for you at these distances, not another program's computed values for these marks. 

Bow sight physics inside parallax error, roughly 0 - 12 yards (plus or minus two yards depending on your bow setup) is really more art than science. If you were to graph all your sight marks in yards from 2 yards to 110 yards it would look much like the Nike swoosh, I've done this probably over 100 times. The steep dropping part on the left most side is very subjective. If you were to buy one of the leading desktop archer applications, you'd likely find that that author took an even more conservative approach then we did on this section, so his marks may be even longer, while the other was more aggressive (and for some archers more accurate) so his marks would be shorter. Why should the three leading archery programs, AA, TAP & AM all produce different results inside the parallax error point while outside they all quickly converge on a single graph? Simple, this part of bow physics is not well understood and we've each taken a slightly different approach. Frankly it's unique to archery. 

Consider that your peep to pin length is roughly 3', it keeps the math simple and perhaps you're a big guy. For a 20' shot you're aiming at a target that is less than one order of magnitude (actually only 7X) that distance. This translates to roughly a 1.27" difference in height at the target face (assuming a Sureloc or similar sight). Inside 12 yards you should shoot your marks, confirm any differences and record them in AM as modified marks, that's why we offer this column, experience is always better. At 35', the difference in height on the target face drops to 0.70" using the data you provided. Pretty weird stuff.

For now I'd suggest saving them as modified marks. We are looking into improving our results for the very near marks. If you could email me your marks card, the print function from within setup, to [email protected] I'd be happy to include that data in our test suite.

Thank you.


----------



## SupraFreak

How do I get a refund for this app? It is HORRIBLE! It ignores the marks I put in. It doesn't even ask for Draw Weight. Its more than 10 off on all my marks on my PSE Dominator with SureLoc sight. It will only let you put in 5 corrections for bad marks and all my major marks (20,30,40,50,60,70M) are ALL off. This app isn't woth .99 let alone $19.99. Don't waste your time on it!


----------



## that1guy27

SupraFreak said:


> How do I get a refund for this app? It is HORRIBLE! It ignores the marks I put in. It doesn't even ask for Draw Weight. Its more than 10 off on all my marks on my PSE Dominator with SureLoc sight. It will only let you put in 5 corrections for bad marks and all my major marks (20,30,40,50,60,70M) are ALL off. This app isn't woth .99 let alone $19.99. Don't waste your time on it!


No reason to be rude about it it has worked for many people, i am in no way affiliated with nor do i use it just saying.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2603601

"For personal attention Please contact [email protected]"


----------



## GrahamJ

I ran into this app somehow, and love the daylights out of it. I have it set up for two separate rigs, a spot and a 3D, and both are dead on out to at least 60 yards, which is mostly what I shoot. I shot a round of 3D the other day with both bows shooting one, then the other, just to see which one I was more accurate with, and the app was flawless switching back and forth. I zero at 30 yards and at 60 yards, with fairly precise measurements for the required input data, and for my 3D bow, it even came up with the correct speed, for which I was amazed and impressed. I had cronyed it earlier and they both matched at 303 FPS. I dont remember what I paid for it, but I use the app every time there might be a chance i have to adjust. I am not affiliated with it or its development, but I do use it, and find it excellent. It is way more accurate than what some of my shooting friends are using.
regards,
jGraham


----------

