# Factory staff shooters



## sharkred7 (Jul 19, 2005)

I was watching the Lancaster shoot ups today. In the mens open, almost every one was wearing factory staff shooting shirts with piles of sponsors on them. While I understand it is an open shoot, why would you not shoot championships instead of flights? 

Not trying to start a pi$$ing contest, I just don't understand. Does that not qualify you as a pro in the sense of the word. If I was on a major bow/sight/arrow contract I would feel obligated to shoot as a pro. Is that just me? Or is it because of the payouts in these divisions that draw the factory sponsored shooters? I know factory pros used to shoot bowhunter championship at Vegas until some major rules infractions by a pro caused the sponsors to require them to shoot in the Freestyle championship open instead of BH. That was the beginning of the end of that division as it no longer exists.

Just curious what others think about it.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

tagged


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

sharkred7 said:


> I was watching the Lancaster shoot ups today. In the mens open, almost every one was wearing factory staff shooting shirts with piles of sponsors on them. While I understand it is an open shoot, why would you not shoot championships instead of flights?
> 
> Not trying to start a pi$$ing contest, I just don't understand. Does that not qualify you as a pro in the sense of the word. If I was on a major bow/sight/arrow contract I would feel obligated to shoot as a pro. Is that just me? Or is it because of the payouts in these divisions that draw the factory sponsored shooters? I know factory pros used to shoot bowhunter championship at Vegas until some major rules infractions by a pro caused the sponsors to require them to shoot in the Freestyle championship open instead of BH. That was the beginning of the end of that division as it no longer exists.
> 
> Just curious what others think about it.


I've noticed the same thing with factory shooters in the amateur classes. I'd like to hear the reasoning from some of them for not shooting the pro division. Maybe we don't understand what these factory shooters are really getting? 

I personally hate the entire set-up. It'd be nice to have a graduated set-up where we have a uniform set of classes that you point out of. But how do you do it? Is it based on actual tournament scores only since there are so many small tournaments? Then you worry about sand baggers. But, you can't do it based on placing when you're only shooting against 3-5 shooters. Maybe a weighted system based on placing and number of shooters in the class? (get a smaller # of points for winning a small shoot vs. winning something like LAS).

It's a tough nut to crack, but I think it'd go a long way in growing the sport. Lots of guys never compete because they're already beaten before they register.


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## f40mcd (Jan 28, 2012)

sharkred7 said:


> I was watching the Lancaster shoot ups today. In the mens open, almost every one was wearing factory staff shooting shirts with piles of sponsors on them. While I understand it is an open shoot, why would you not shoot championships instead of flights?
> 
> Not trying to start a pi$$ing contest, I just don't understand. Does that not qualify you as a pro in the sense of the word. If I was on a major bow/sight/arrow contract I would feel obligated to shoot as a pro. Is that just me? Or is it because of the payouts in these divisions that draw the factory sponsored shooters? I know factory pros used to shoot bowhunter championship at Vegas until some major rules infractions by a pro caused the sponsors to require them to shoot in the Freestyle championship open instead of BH. That was the beginning of the end of that division as it no longer exists.
> 
> Just curious what others think about it.


Joining the professional Archers association qualifies you. That's it. 

There is a code to the pro worlds that if you're a former Olympic medalist or formerly coached by some of the elite level coaches that you need to be pro class. 


USA Archery Instructor
Penn State University Archery/Bowhunting Instructor
CrossFit Coach 
#ishootelite


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

There are youth that are Factory Pro Staff, they don't shoot in the pro division. Many get introduced to the position through their local bow shop. Companies chose people for different reasons to shoot as factory pro staff, there are many shooting at every level in the ASA. I am sure their desire is to move up continually until they reach the level where they can compete in the "pro" division.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Just because you're factory sponsored, wearing a factory jersey, doesn't automatically make you a Pro. 

Already noted; You could be sponsored through a shop. You could be 1 of 3 factory levels, Silver (entry), Gold (med), Platinum (full sponsorship). The highest orders of being sponsored is good conduct, representing the company, helpful. Yes, being a good archer does help, but it still ranks "secondary."

Rules were loosened a ton quite a few years ago by the NFAA. Example; If you just wore a archery company's belt buckle or hat you were put in the Pro division.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

All it means is that you have possibly gotten a few free bows and some arrows and a discount on your other stuff, it doesn't mean that you are a pro and many times it doesn't mean that you have ever won anything. We have a great set of pro shooters in america right now and they are simply awesome, they show up and throw up near perfect scores everywhere they go and we have our average pro shooters that are strong but not elite. The cool thing is that for us normal guys we can simply pay our pro entry fee and shoot right next to them if we choose and I have done that on several occasions, I didn't consider myself a pro but it was so cool to shoot with them. I do see many guys like me that choose to pay that entry fee each and every tournament and finish towards the bottom of the pro class which is totally fine, it is just a choice.

A guy really needs to be smart, I came on strong a few years ago locally and when I started to attend national stuff I entered myself in higher classes than I should have because I tried to pick something I thought I belonged. I have screwed around and won out of them and am now a semi pro shooter in 3d and I have never won a tournament. If I screw around and win out of semi pro without winning by having a solid year and being on the podium a few times I could be in the pro class and have to beat levi morgan. My buddy Jason Dickey came on strong a few years later than me and we helped him pick classes better and he already has multiple national wins, he just won the iowa pro am and Lancasters this weekend. 

This year for Jason has been so cool, the week we decided to go to the iowa pro am he was unsure if he could go or should go and finally got signed up. Then after winning it he got lucky and found a ride with Jasa to the lancasters shoot and got signed up last minute and got in a mini van and headed into a blizzard. Again heading home with a victory. 

Jason shoots for Tom sutherland here in missouri, Tom has put some bow shops into his Sutherlands and opened up a shop in Springfield, Mo. So right now Jason wears a Sutherlands jersey when he shoots. 

I shoot for a bow shop in Marshfield, mo and they have never given me a Jersey. They give me a bow when I need one and I get all my stuff at cost which is nice along with free range time and use of the stuff in the shop. I did buy a jersey with a collar that has bowtech on it so that when I get on the podium at a national shoot I can get a picture and send it in to bowtech and I get a nice 350 dollar check, I get 350 because I keep getting 3rd. If I would screw around and get 1st I could get more but having that jersey on when I get on the podium is so simple. I am not even a staff shooter for bowtech but still get a check which is cool.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

It seems to me like they should want to move up. Several of those guys are names we've seen at the top for more than a year or two. The spread between the top pros and top amateurs is very small in a lot of events. 

I'm more curious as to why they don't want to shoot for more. I guess each of them have their own story with which we are not privy too. But after a few top finishes with pro class scores, moving up just seems like the right thing to do.

As far as the shirt thing goes, a lot of the shoots in my area keep it very simple. If you are sponsored, you shoot pro class. I think it would be tough to do that at the national level, because most of those amateur guys will have some small town bow shop sponsor or a local string guy.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cbrunson said:


> It seems to me like they should want to move up. Several of those guys are names we've seen at the top for more than a year or two. The spread between the top pros and top amateurs is very small in a lot of events.
> 
> I'm more curious as to why they don't want to shoot for more. I guess each of them have their own story with which we are not privy too. But after a few top finishes with pro class scores, moving up just seems like the right thing to do.
> 
> As far as the shirt thing goes, a lot of the shoots in my area keep it very simple. If you are sponsored, you shoot pro class. I think it would be tough to do that at the national level, because most of those amateur guys will have some small town bow shop sponsor or a local string guy.


Common sense rules in most cases. How would you feel going from top of the heap in your normal class and then bottom at the next higher level? Amateur to Pro entry fee is quite a jump in cost. If at Gold or Platinum level you may be requested to be at X events (I think at least 3). Yes, some people can shoot Pro level, but the expense and time can be too much. Granted, some top end shooters probably get expenses. And then one's family time, be whatever it involves.

Club events. Some Pros I know shoot, but don't turn in score cards which is fine, but I don't have a problem if one does turn in his score card. Most clubs that I shoot at don't have a Pro class. Pros shoot whatever class for their equipment....


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

SonnyThomas said:


> Common sense rules in most cases. How would you feel going from top of the heap in your normal class and then bottom at the next higher level?


Those in question are not shooting bottom pro level scores and they are at every major shoot. 

Again, I'm not questioning their intent. Just curious why they wouldn't want to move up. I don't suppose that is a question you, me, or anyone else here could answer.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cbrunson said:


> Those in question are not shooting bottom pro level scores and they are at every major shoot.
> 
> Again, I'm not questioning their intent. Just curious why they wouldn't want to move up. I don't suppose that is a question you, me, or anyone else here could answer.


For NFAA, they don't have to have a reason other than they don't want to. Really not much difference than a top end club event shooter not wanting to shoot sanctioned or higher level events. Or me, I just plain didn't want to shoot spots and I quit. No different than spot shooters don't want to shoot 3D. The ASA is trying to gain these spot shooters through more and more Known yardage classes. Aiding K50 is Hoyt ($5000), Mathews ($7500) and TRU Ball ($1000) putting up contingency money. Jesse Broadwater said he might be practicing up on the "rubber targets."

In ASA there are move out rules for designated classes, win so much money and you are required to move out to another class or up in class. Don't like the higher class, can't do well and there is a time period before you can move down or request to move down has to go before a review board.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

f40mcd said:


> Joining the professional Archers association qualifies you. That's it.
> 
> There is a code to the pro worlds that if you're a former Olympic medalist or formerly coached by some of the elite level coaches that you need to be pro class.
> 
> ...


Uh oh. When I was in college I was coached for one semester by Frank Thomas at TAMU. Does that mean I have to shoot pro?? I'll totally come in last all the time! 

DM


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## f40mcd (Jan 28, 2012)

dmacey said:


> Uh oh. When I was in college I was coached for one semester by Frank Thomas at TAMU. Does that mean I have to shoot pro?? I'll totally come in last all the time!
> 
> DM


I think so DM 


USA Archery Instructor
Penn State University Archery/Bowhunting Instructor
CrossFit Coach 
#ishootelite


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Also, some may not wish to shoot Pro due to the time involved. It takes hours away from family and for those who do not podium, it also takes a lot of $$ to run a respectable tour of events. For some, the overall ROI does not justify the sacrifice.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Factory staff and Pro staff are completely two different levels at least for PSE which I know. Most factory staff get items at a discount and rarely a free bow if ever. Pro staff on the other hand receive 1 or more bows a year and it all depends on how good a shot you are and how many tournaments one goes to. Both levels are also walking billboards for the company. Factory staff does not have to preform other than be good stewards and represent the products the represent and they do this of course by attending shoots. Factory staff pays all their entry and travel fees where some pro staff might get some of those cost reimbursed and if they win money in the pro class the company also then matches those winnings. It more than likely varies somewhat from manufacturer to manufacturer.


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

I guess you could look at it like baseball, all are under an umbrella of the company but some in A, AA, AAA and the big show. Only difference it's self appointed (archery) vs having to actually be promoted from within.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Kurt Warner was a stock boy in a supermarket or something when they called him and he showed up and took the rams to the highest level. That is the problem with most pro sports there are idiots in charge many times that over look guys that totally deserve to be there winning championships. 

The beauty with archery is that you can get in your car and show up at any event and pay a entry fee and kick the butt out of levi and jesse and any of the other pro shooters that may be there if you are good enough.

For those of us that are up and comers we love the sport and we train as much as we can and picking a level where we can compete and hopefully win is important to us and if and when we make a jump in our ability level we move up. That is what my buddy Jason Dickey is doing, he trains when he can and is a great dad and right now he is making a huge jump in his ability to compete at the national level. Nothing more or less. Jason wasn't a factory staff shooter for any company this weekend at lancasters, he has the logos on his jersey because he enjoys using those products and when the bow shop that he shoots for made the jersey he requested them to be on there. Not because he was contracted to do so. Jason shoots the elite victory because he likes elite bows, he got a elite hunting bow 5 or so years ago and then he got a elite pure that was bright orange and shot if as his 3d bow. Then last year he got the victory with his own money, jason is the real deal. I have watched him go from a hunter that showed up to local 3d shoots from time to time to one of the top amateur shooters in the nation.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dmacey said:


> Uh oh. When I was in college I was coached for one semester by Frank Thomas at TAMU. Does that mean I have to shoot pro?? I'll totally come in last all the time!
> 
> DM


 I don't think Vic or Sally Wunderle shoot the Pro classes.... And then the understanding of "grooming" for the big time. Nope, some don't get thrown right in the "meat grinder" regardless of the National and World Records under their belt....


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> I don't think Vic or Sally Wunderle shoot the Pro classes.... And then the understanding of "grooming" for the big time. Nope, some don't get thrown right in the "meat grinder" regardless of the National and World Records under their belt....


Whew, thank goodness. And Frank never coached me in compound, only recurve, of which I was a poor student anyway.... I wasn't looking forward to having to wear a Hoyt shirt at indoor nationals this year either 

DM


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

Then there are guys like me who shot pro for many years, but are no longer competitive because of age. Having been a reliable, valuable pro staff shooter over the years, I still get all my equipment free even though I now shoot in the open ranks where I am still competitive, but really just shoot for the fun and companionship. There are more than just a couple of us old geezers in that category.


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