# Cant get my bow to shoot fixed heads



## Bushwackr (Jul 10, 2008)

This has prob been run in the ground but here we go again.

it is a 07 ally , 68lb draw, I shoot axis st 340's at 28". I have had the bow at two diffrent dealers to check it out. I am told that the bow is good to go. I bare shaft paper tuned the bow. It punches holes, same with my fletched arrows. I used it last year with mechanicals because I cant get anything else to shoot. It shoots a point, and the mechanicals wonderful. Not a complaint. 

Now I want to use fixed heads but I cant get this dang thing to shoot them. at 20 yds it will shoot about 2" low and 4-5" right with one head. Another will make it shoot left, or high. I cannot get it figured out. 

I tried broadhead tuning by shooting a tip and them shoot broadhead. I was trying to move the rest in small ammounts to bring my broadheads to the points well my broadhead get closer and the tip goes away I makes it shoot all sorts of crazy. What am I doing wrong?????? thanks all


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

Have you tried different spine arrows ? How about the shafts, did you square the ends?


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## Bushwackr (Jul 10, 2008)

The ends were squared on the arrow saw. It has a unit on the end for that. I tried some 300 axis but they are real heavy and I havent used them much.


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

Same grain broadhead as field point? knock point where it supposed to be? If so try those other arrows or goldtip xt hunter 5575's. Are your broadheads and fletching winded right?

Your cooking with that bow anyways so give those other arrows a try if you cant resolve. 

Is there a spine chart for your arrows and does it fit your poundage and draw?


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## 6bloodychunks (Oct 26, 2005)

28" 340's are kinda stiff for 68# 

maybe try a 125 grain broadhead and see if it helps.

if not you could always try a little bit longer arrow.


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

6bloodychunks said:


> 28" 340's are kinda stiff for 68#
> 
> maybe try a 125 grain broadhead and see if it helps.
> 
> if not you could always try a little bit longer arrow.


What I thought your shooting stiff. Not trying to tell you what to do! I would recomend the gt's..

Long as you paper tune youll be satisfied I GUARONTEEE!


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## BullElkKiller (Mar 13, 2007)

Be sure and spin test the broadheads. I have used several different makes of broadheads over the years and not all are balanced very well. I only use Muzzy or G5's. I have had the best luck with these. I have pulled brand new broadheads out of the package of different makes and spin tested them only to find out they are lop sided. You will never get an unbalanced broadhead to fly. I like to chuck up an insert in my drill and check broadheads. Then screw them into you arrows and spin test them on the arrow. I use 7595 Gold Tips 28.5" long, I'm shooting 71.5 lbs. and my 100 grain Muzzy's/G5's fly like darts. They impact the same as my field points every time. Good Luck!!


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

Hey Bushwackr,

How _FAST_ are those 340's going? What fixed blade head are you using? Most important, what rest are you shooting off of?

I seem to recall that the Ally is "pretty peppy" and there are quite a few heads that won't tune well past 280-290 fps from any of my bows. Even the "miracle heads" like Nitron's and Slick's get tricky past those speeds. I don't use a drop away myself, as simple is a personal preference, and they are usually good for a bit more speed, if set up properly. Most shooters with a Wisker Bisquit have problems starting at 260-270fps, or less.

The fact that you can't get a consistant POI is a sign that spine isn't the culprit. Even poor clearance usually gives a consistant high/low/left/right. But a wandering POI is usually a sign that your head just can't get going straight before it starts to spin. The Bh takes over until that happens, and that's a random thing.


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## vabowhntr (Jun 29, 2004)

Are the arrows straight fletched? Had a friend with this problem, put helical on his fletching and the problem went away.


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## bow&buck (Aug 15, 2006)

I shoot the same arrows and had the same problem until I switched to blazer vanes fletched with a slight off-set.


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

bow&buck said:


> I shoot the same arrows and had the same problem until I switched to blazer vanes fletched with a slight off-set.


thats how we shoot ours now


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## Bushwackr (Jul 10, 2008)

Im not really sure how fast the arrow is going im shooting it with the fast mods the EFA1.5 draw mods that is a 30" draw length at 68lbs . The arrows come off a NAP Smartrest drop away. As for broadheads I have tried 100gr Magnus Stingers, 100gr Crimson Talons, 100gr CT hyperspeed, 75 grain Thunderheads. I shoot quick spins and Blazer vanes, they are both the 2" vanes.


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## Bowdon (Aug 17, 2004)

I shoot Axis 400's out of about 68 lb and a 28 inch arrow. I been shooing the Montec 100 and they fly great. I can shoot all my broadhead and field point together in a 3 inch spot at 50 yards with no problems. Go out and for get the paper tune and use the Easton broadhead set up and you be OK. Now you have fins on the front of the arrow and it needs to be set up by broadhead tuning. All paper tuning dose is to tell you if the arrow in the right spine range and not how the arrow is going to group. You need to group tune or broadhead tune to get broadheads and field points to shoot the same.


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## willwlkr (Jul 18, 2009)

*Huntsalot*

I agree with some of the responses, try a Blazervane, with a Tight Point or Muzzy Head. Spine may be a little stiff.


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## Bushwackr (Jul 10, 2008)

ok I will have to try some 400's I am at wits end I have tried everything imaginable.


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

Bushwackr said:


> ok I will have to try some 400's I am at wits end I have tried everything imaginable.


the 340's are fine. make sure to have the blades exactly inline with your fletching. even if they are off just a tad then youll notice it. i shoot 27.5'' beman ics hunter 400's out of my dream season 70#. i had a small problem with grouping and took a half a turn out of each limb bolt and double checked my broadheads to see if they were lined with my fletching.mine group great now. but also remember the kill zone on a deer is pretty big. you dont have to have a 2'' group at all yardage. youll drive yourself crazy trying to get all your heads to hit right on a dot the size of a quarter. shoot into a deer target and as long as they are with 5'' of each other horizontally from 50 yards i would be happy with that. but do what you wish.


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> the 340's are fine. make sure to have the blades exactly inline with your fletching. even if they are off just a tad then youll notice it. i shoot 27.5'' beman ics hunter 400's out of my dream season 70#. i had a small problem with grouping and took a half a turn out of each limb bolt and double checked my broadheads to see if they were lined with my fletching.mine group great now. but also remember the kill zone on a deer is pretty big. you dont have to have a 2'' group at all yardage. youll drive yourself crazy trying to get all your heads to hit right on a dot the size of a quarter. shoot into a deer target and as long as they are with 5'' of each other horizontally from 50 yards i would be happy with that. but do what you wish.


Fletching orientation should make ZERO difference... if it does then there are other problems


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

Ditto - bh orientation and vane orientation has zero to do with it.

Reading earlier, you seem to indicate that your bh's spray around...ie. they don't group whether they hit where your fieldpoints do or not. If so, that indicates to me that the bh, insert and shafts are not properly oriented. Did you just screw on BHs and go shoot? If so...the odds of getting one or two arrows to match up right is low. I wind up building my own hunting arrows - 'cause its the only way I know to get the BH, insert and shaft to orient properly and spin like a top. Even then one of 6 will still not act right.


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## Roskoe (Apr 15, 2007)

Have you tried fletching your shafts with a 2 - 3 degree offset?


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## dfrey (May 31, 2006)

I had a simular problem a few years back, after doing everything I could think of I replaced ALL my nocks, my problem was solved. It may be worth a shot.


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

IL 88 said:


> Fletching orientation should make ZERO difference... if it does then there are other problems


You've got to be joking right? Fixed blade broadheads try to steer your arrow as it is. Why do you think people that shoot 4 blade bh's usually have 4 fletchings. I have shot fixed bh's not lined up right and they never flew right. Not once. Then I would add spacers to line up the blades with the fletching and guess what. It's a miracle. They shot right. That's why interloc makes a broadhead now that you can line up with your fletching without messing with the insert. That's why if you go to get arrows cut, the guy asks whether your shootin fixed or mechanical before he puts your inserts in. Yeah. Fletching orientation means nothing. LOL. Your broadhead blades need to be lined up with your fletching. Period. If your looking for accurate, consistant shots, I'd suggest doing it. I'm shooting fairly tight groups with my fixed blades at 65 yards. But do whatever these pros in here think. LOL


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## jpm_mq2 (May 22, 2004)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> You've got to be joking right? Fixed blade broadheads try to steer your arrow as it is. Why do you think people that shoot 4 blade bh's usually have 4 fletchings. I have shot fixed bh's not lined up right and they never flew right. Not once. Then I would add spacers to line up the blades with the fletching and guess what. It's a miracle. They shot right. That's why interloc makes a broadhead now that you can line up with your fletching without messing with the insert. That's why if you go to get arrows cut, the guy asks whether your shootin fixed or mechanical before he puts your inserts in. Yeah. Fletching orientation means nothing. LOL. Your broadhead blades need to be lined up with your fletching. Period. If your looking for accurate, consistant shots, I'd suggest doing it. I'm shooting fairly tight groups with my fixed blades at 65 yards. But do whatever these pros in here think. LOL


I disagree.

Read through this thread Forced_2xforce and explain why you think the way you do.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=608292&highlight=broadheads+inline+with+fletching


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> You've got to be joking right? Fixed blade broadheads try to steer your arrow as it is. Why do you think people that shoot 4 blade bh's usually have 4 fletchings. I have shot fixed bh's not lined up right and they never flew right. Not once. Then I would add spacers to line up the blades with the fletching and guess what. It's a miracle. They shot right. That's why interloc makes a broadhead now that you can line up with your fletching without messing with the insert. That's why if you go to get arrows cut, the guy asks whether your shootin fixed or mechanical before he puts your inserts in. Yeah. Fletching orientation means nothing. LOL. Your broadhead blades need to be lined up with your fletching. Period. If your looking for accurate, consistant shots, I'd suggest doing it. I'm shooting fairly tight groups with my fixed blades at 65 yards. But do whatever these pros in here think. LOL


Thanks jpm,

I guess there's no way my bh's and fp's can be grouping together at 60-70 yards  I've never had any problems getting them to fly without lining them up. Like I said, there's something else going on if you have to line them up.


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## Bert Colwell (Jun 25, 2005)

Having shot the exact same bow setup a few years ago, I had much better luck with 400 spine arrows. I also shot 4" vanes with a full helical. Broadheads and fieldpoints had the same point of impact. On another note, I never worry about lining up my broaheads and vanes either. I used to be anal about this, but finally found that it makes very little (if any) difference for my rigs.


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> . But do whatever these pros in here think. LOL


You're serious?

I currently have six bows set up for hunting deer and elk. About the same number I've had for several years. Each year I play around with different stuff just to try things out. I shoot 3/4 blade heads primarily, as they cut a bettr hole than a two blade, and I'm not power limited on the bow end.

I have never seen any difference in BH alignment, in 40 years of setting up hunting bows. My guess is that you may be tuning challenged, or you're putting us on.


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

IL 88 said:


> Thanks jpm,
> 
> I guess there's no way my bh's and fp's can be grouping together at 60-70 yards  I've never had any problems getting them to fly without lining them up. Like I said, there's something else going on if you have to line them up.


well i had been shooting the nap bloodrunner. it has a 1 inch cutting diameter when the tip is up. its part fixed and part mechanical. my first shot was with one just screwed in and not lined up. 30 yards. it shot high about a foot and to the right about a foot. called a local shop i bought them from and he said that he didnt think they had to be. just out of curiousity i put a spacer between the insert and bh and lined em up and shot and guess what. problem solved. it shot right where my field point shot. im not saying that its a fix all for all fixed blade tuning issues but i would damn sure try that before going out and buying new stuff like some people had suggested. i do all the tuning to my bow and have had no problems going from mechanical to fixed. it takes 15 seconds to get your bh lined up with the fletching. what will it hurt. its suppose to matter on the speed of your bow as well when it comes to ease of tuning fixed blades. the faster the bow the harder it is to tune. it doesnt hurt to try everything you can before you go spend money. but if he wants to listen to you guys then so be it. ive went from fixed blades in the early 90s to mechanical and back to fixed. all with success. my bow is sighted in to 85 yards. i could probably shoot my fixed accurately out to that range but choose not to cuz its too easy to make a mistake. as long as you center shot is good and your just about a 1/4" to 3/8" nock high and your bow is in time and your 3rd axis is good for shots 50+ yards, and your not torquing the bow, and you have no fletching contact....what else could there be. he is shooting 340's..the spines good. but whatever. good luck man..


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

TMan51 said:


> You're serious?
> 
> I currently have six bows set up for hunting deer and elk. About the same number I've had for several years. Each year I play around with different stuff just to try things out. I shoot 3/4 blade heads primarily, as they cut a bettr hole than a two blade, and I'm not power limited on the bow end.
> 
> I have never seen any difference in BH alignment, in 40 years of setting up hunting bows. My guess is that you may be tuning challenged, or you're putting us on.


so your total cut is 3/4 or each blade is 3/4? if its the total then thats why you havent had to change much. the smaller the blades the less steering they do. wasp boss bullets only have a one inch cut exactly for that reason.


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## Hornsgalore (Jan 27, 2007)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> well i had been shooting the nap bloodrunner. it has a 1 inch cutting diameter when the tip is up. its part fixed and part mechanical. my first shot was with one just screwed in and not lined up. 30 yards. it shot high about a foot and to the right about a foot. called a local shop i bought them from and he said that he didnt think they had to be. just out of curiousity i put a spacer between the insert and bh and lined em up and shot and guess what. problem solved. it shot right where my field point shot. im not saying that its a fix all for all fixed blade tuning issues but i would damn sure try that before going out and buying new stuff like some people had suggested. i do all the tuning to my bow and have had no problems going from mechanical to fixed. it takes 15 seconds to get your bh lined up with the fletching. what will it hurt. its suppose to matter on the speed of your bow as well when it comes to ease of tuning fixed blades. the faster the bow the harder it is to tune. it doesnt hurt to try everything you can before you go spend money. but if he wants to listen to you guys then so be it. ive went from fixed blades in the early 90s to mechanical and back to fixed. all with success. my bow is sighted in to 85 yards. i could probably shoot my fixed accurately out to that range but choose not to cuz its too easy to make a mistake. as long as you center shot is good and your just about a 1/4" to 3/8" nock high and your bow is in time and your 3rd axis is good for shots 50+ yards, and your not torquing the bow, and you have no fletching contact....what else could there be. he is shooting 340's..the spines good. but whatever. good luck man..


You don't have to be 1/4-3/8 nock high with binaries. believe it or not you can be center of berger hole and 90 deg square.
and depending on what kind of rest there is no need for down pressure.
I think his 75 gr heads are making him overspined and maybe a tiny torque in the grip so the blades are flying in that direction. Id add some 25 gr boosters and re tune. this will also give a little bit better FOC for hunting
Broadhead and vane allignment is totally false.


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## bbjavelina (Jan 30, 2005)

*Have you tried?*

Shooting a group with just one arrow? Like 6 shots with the same arrow thru a piece of cardboard. That shoud show a good group. If not, we need to have a whole seperate discussion.

Use a reasonable amount of fletch (feathers may help, and they are very light) at a good helical. Never concern youself with head/fletch orientation. Be sure your broadhead shafts have the shaft end and the insert face square.
"Marry" a broadhead to the shaft, make sure it spins true, and never change it unless you have to.

Nock alilgnment is critical to good broadhead flight as is good form.

Best of luck to you.


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

TMan51 said:


> You're serious?
> 
> I currently have six bows set up for hunting deer and elk. About the same number I've had for several years. Each year I play around with different stuff just to try things out. I shoot 3/4 blade heads primarily, as they cut a bettr hole than a two blade, and I'm not power limited on the bow end.
> 
> I have never seen any difference in BH alignment, in 40 years of setting up hunting bows. My guess is that you may be tuning challenged, or you're putting us on.


ok chief. i intentionally took an arrow and made the blades not line up with my fletching. i moved back to 40 yards and shot. 2 inches low and 6 or 7 inches to the right. pulled the arrow out and put the blades back in line and moved back to 40 yards. bullseye. now im not an aeronautical engineer but the proof is in the puddin. now i will agree that it might not matter at 20 yards, but longer shots do need the alignment for the best accuracy. there is nothing wrong with my bow. all timing marks(cam timing marks and qad rest marks) are where they should be. my center shot is perfect i have had to replace 4 arrows in the past 2 weeks due to close groups with my fixed blades. so am i honestly suppose to believe that this is a myth?


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## bschwein (Feb 12, 2005)

I've never had any luck aligning broadheads


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## Hornsgalore (Jan 27, 2007)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> ok chief. i intentionally took an arrow and made the blades not line up with my fletching. i moved back to 40 yards and shot. 2 inches low and 6 or 7 inches to the right. pulled the arrow out and put the blades back in line and moved back to 40 yards. bullseye. now im not an aeronautical engineer but the proof is in the puddin. now i will agree that it might not matter at 20 yards, but longer shots do need the alignment for the best accuracy. there is nothing wrong with my bow. all timing marks(cam timing marks and qad rest marks) are where they should be. my center shot is perfect i have had to replace 4 arrows in the past 2 weeks due to close groups with my fixed blades. so am i honestly suppose to believe that this is a myth?


I just have to ask........
I read a previous post of yours you claimed you had straight and right H vanes and the right H vanes shto 1000 x's better than your straight set. How can this be?.....with your logic.
Wouldn't the spinning of the broadhead cause a disruption in the air path just behind the blades and by the time the vane passed through, it would be different air . Also speed loss down range would greatly change the ammount of airflow and vaccum pressure that surrounds the entire arrow, wouldnt the profile of the vane and broadhead be most efficient at a certain size/speed ratio? We are talking about an arrow that starts out going roughly 200 mph right?
So why was it again that they need to be lined up? Please explain your physics and not just a " well i shoot better that way" claim...........Prove the "myth"
OH wait...maybe you were talking about field points. I wasn't
and I do shoot fixed BH for fun @ up to 100 + yds and I can tell you for a fact that the grip and hold is 1000x's more important than BH /vane allignment.
NO myth.


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## OBAN (Jun 25, 2006)

I don't know what your bh/vane/feather alignment does for your setup, but it didn't have any effect on mine. However, turning nocks and changing vane placement did. I shoot a 4-fletched arrow with 3" vanes and a 90 degree vane placement. I nock it with fletchings closest to my cables in an X. For me, this is a way to keep the vanes from contacting my cables and making the arrow go off course. I'm sure you tried moving your vane placement/cockfeather position? Worth a try.


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## BullElkKiller (Mar 13, 2007)

If your bow is in tune blade alignment doesn't need to be accomplished. Before I knew anything about properly tuning a bow I use to line up my blades to the fletching for better flight. However once I figured out how to properly tune a bow blade alignment makes no difference. I use to argue that the blades need to be in line with the fletching. I was very humble once I figured out the opposite.


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

Hornsgalore said:


> I So why was it again that they need to be lined up? Please explain your physics and not just a " well i shoot better that way" claim...........Prove the "myth"


Horns, you need to know when to walk away.

Some posts are not worth responding to.


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

Hornsgalore said:


> I just have to ask........
> I read a previous post of yours you claimed you had straight and right H vanes and the right H vanes shto 1000 x's better than your straight set. How can this be?.....with your logic.
> Wouldn't the spinning of the broadhead cause a disruption in the air path just behind the blades and by the time the vane passed through, it would be different air . Also speed loss down range would greatly change the ammount of airflow and vaccum pressure that surrounds the entire arrow, wouldnt the profile of the vane and broadhead be most efficient at a certain size/speed ratio? We are talking about an arrow that starts out going roughly 200 mph right?
> So why was it again that they need to be lined up? Please explain your physics and not just a " well i shoot better that way" claim...........Prove the "myth"
> ...


No those were on my stats post. Straight fletch 327 fps. Helical 321. Helical shoots 1000x better. And as far as why they need to be lined up... Once again I'm not an aeronautical engineer. It would make sense that larger blade broadheads that are vented or solid would have more resistance and try to spin the arrow and steer it. If they are aligned the bh blades and fletching would work together and be on the same page. Now smaller blades such as the wasp boss bullet and nitron will have less resistance and less steering ability. Thats why these companies claim they are more accurate. I shoot the wasp hammer sst and when not aligned they will not shoot the same. At 20 yards there is little difference but on longer shots there is a bigger difference. I can assure you there is no timing or tuning issues with my bow. I guess this is part of that "everybodys bow is setup for them". I have split a half dozen arrows with this xforce. And I don't know how many all together. I've been shooting a bow since I was 12 and am no dummy when it comes to tuning. I don't take my stuff anywhere to get tuned. I have no fletching contact. No tuning issues. I shoot the proper spine. My foc is 12. I always have the same anchor point everytime. My inserts are square. My arrows spin true. No wobble. So when I take my bh out of alignment and it shoots 2" low and 6"-7" to the right and then realign it and it shoots dead on then I'd say that means something. Some people on here can act like I'm dumb and don't know ****. I don't really care. A guy had a problem. I made a suggestion. Sounded like he tried everything and people were tryin to tell him to buy new arrows and new broadheads. What would it hurt for him to try it and see. 5 minutes might save him $200. I'm done with this topic though. Best of luck


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

So...lets see, we have arrows that do not wobble..spin true and align with one's vanes. I, with some others above have no wobble, arrows that spin true but do not align blades with vanes. And we both achieve the same desired results. As an example I recently finished building 10 non blade-vane aligned hunting arrows....8 of them, with broadheads, grouped with field points out to 40yds...out of two different bows set to shoot that arrow. Turned the nock on the two that didn't work so well and got one to work as desired. I think the common theme here is.....no wobble. Pay most of the attention to the broadhead, insert and shaft....get them to spin great. If you want to go the extra mile to align the blades..have at it. But I bet if they don't spin good, regardless of alignment...its not going to perform. So I'll stick to my earlier response...blade-vane alignment is not a critical factor as it makes no difference for me.


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## dpops211 (Jan 15, 2009)

I was in your same boat for a looooong time. I tried everything. I just could not get my broadhead close to my field point. It would consistantly hit 4-5 inches left of the field point. I moved my rest around, increased and decreased poundage, tried lighter points, heavier points, tried 340's 400's, 350's etc.... And finally! I realized what i was doing wrong. At full draw i looked up at my top cam and noticed that my string was coming off the cam at and angle. I changed my hand placement on the grip to where the string was coming off the cam track in perfect allignment. PROBLEM SOLVED. Now i can shoot 100 gn. points, 125's, 340 spine arrows, 400 spine arrows etc.... and they all hit the exact same spot at 20 and 30 yards. 

SO check and make sure your not tourquing your bow. Look at the top cam at full draw and make sure the string is not coming off the cam track at an angle. For the longest time i blamed it on my set up, but all along it was just shooter error..


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## Bushwackr (Jul 10, 2008)

ok Thanks every one I will try these various things to see if thatl fix my problem. One thing tho How am I suppose to line up my broadhead blades and vanes?? Strip them and refletch??


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## Bushwackr (Jul 10, 2008)

Oh btw I fletch my arrows with a AAE Fletcher the gray plastic one, not the 3 arm one with the slip on top. Im not sure what it is in degrees, does any one know what they are??


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

Bushwackr said:


> ok Thanks every one I will try these various things to see if thatl fix my problem. One thing tho How am I suppose to line up my broadhead blades and vanes?? Strip them and refletch??


They make small plastic spacers you can buy. They are 2.99 at gander mountain. If one doesn't work then add another. They don't weigh anything so it won't affect anything.


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## Profitup (Mar 9, 2009)

*Try fobs*

Buy a QAD HD drop away and shoot the FOB. I bet the problems go away? You might also have a miss matched spine box of arrows? It happens.:RockOn::RockOn::RockOn:


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## GMM (Jun 19, 2004)

Have you tried a 4" helical fletch with a slight offset yet? I have 2 sets of arrows I shoot. I have 4" helical for hunting and 3" straight for targets. When it is close to hunting season I switch to the 4" and just move my sights down for the slower arrows. 

When hunting seasons are over I switch back to my faster target arrows and move sights back up for targets. With my 4" helical fletched arrows ALL of my broadheads group within an inch or so of my field points up to 60 yards and not much more out farther. They hit even tighter out of my shooting machine. 

With my target arrows they will not hit together at 40 yards, even out of the shooting machine, and the wind makes it really bad. With the longer helical fletching, the wind doesnt really effect them too much.

As far as lining up heads and fletching, I will do it if I am fletching new arrows during hunting season, but I really dont worry too much about it. I have messed around with it a little out of my machine and there is really no difference in groups. 

I have also tried FOBs and they do ok, but they mess with my anchor some. They group right with my 4" helical fletched arrows with field points and are very close with broadheads. I keep a tube of them in my bow box with a couple of bareshafts just in case I ruin fletchings, or it is real windy. They seem to fly better than fletching in heavy wind. They just dont like knicking branches. When I shoot through trees and brush, they come off or realy go off course, where a fletching would just go off course a little bit.


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

GMM said:


> Have you tried a 4" helical fletch with a slight offset yet? I have 2 sets of arrows I shoot. I have 4" helical for hunting and 3" straight for targets. When it is close to hunting season I switch to the 4" and just move my sights down for the slower arrows.
> 
> When hunting seasons are over I switch back to my faster target arrows and move sights back up for targets. With my 4" helical fletched arrows ALL of my broadheads group within an inch or so of my field points up to 60 yards and not much more out farther. They hit even tighter out of my shooting machine.
> 
> ...


So you shoot straight fletch for target shooting? Okie dokie


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## GMM (Jun 19, 2004)

What is wrong with straight fletch for targets?


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

GMM said:


> What is wrong with straight fletch for targets?


Whatever works for ya I guess. I would want right offset. Maybe even helical. But whatever works for ya. I've shot straight fletch and at 20 yards you can group em tight but longer distances they wouldn't.


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## GMM (Jun 19, 2004)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> So you shoot straight fletch for target shooting? Okie dokie





Forced_2_xforce said:


> Whatever works for ya I guess. I would want right offset. Maybe even helical. But whatever works for ya. I've shot straight fletch and at 20 yards you can group em tight but longer distances they wouldn't.



It does work for me, I have the form, tuning and practice to shoot them accurately to 90 yards. The only time I have issues is in the wind or with broadheads (which I CAN make them shoot well with straight fletch also, when I want to spend the time, easier to just change arrows). You can get away with it on field points because they are forgiving. It may not be for everyone, but you dont have to be a smarta** just because someone does something differently than you. 

Sorry for hyjacking the thread, hows the BH tuning going?


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## nomad11 (Apr 14, 2006)

So lets try it for a 3rd time...and as different as I can. In 2004 as someone who shot mechanicals for several years...I made it a absolute personal goal to shoot fixed heads properly. In doing so I went to the extreme to align BH with vanes, visually..as best i could from aluminum arrow to arrow. I also would not be supportiv/tolerate any wobble what so ever. I spent HOURS but succeeded in doing both...no wobble and BH-vane alignment. I shot virtually daily back then and got all but one BH/arrow combination to hit where I was aiming back then. Further, back then, I shot with dovetail sights that switched between FP sights and BH sights. Funny thing was that my FP sight was dead on...and my BH sight was dead on (two different sights) with aluminum arrows. But reverse the two...and they were NOT dead on!! (i.e. BH didn't hit w/ FPs) Today..I have two bows that shoot the same carbon arrow. And today there is NO difference between FP and BH impact out to 40yrds..a personal limit (all using the same fixed sight). Personally I have no doubt they'll shoot as well at much greater distances. I attribute this transition to a better understanding of the tuning process as well as making arrows that spin true - and defininetly NOT to the vane-blade alignment effort - dispite my original druthers. Look, if I thought it made a differnence I say it. As it is today blade-vane alignment has no differnence in my groups at 40yds back then...and today, with more experience in tuning....there is no differece between my 40yrd FP and BH POI. What is the difference? Fine tuning and no wobble - the blade-vane alignment has nothing to do with it. As a veteran..I can't say it strong enough....blade-vane alignment is an abosute mental solution (/panecia) to a problem that is absurd. In reality there may be issues convincing you you've solved the problem and those preventing you from achieving the next level. But trust me...I've been at the vane-blade alignment theory...tried it and realize that its garbage(!!!). In the end there is room for learning..........its up to you if you wish to achieve the next level.


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

GMM said:


> It does work for me, I have the form, tuning and practice to shoot them accurately to 90 yards. The only time I have issues is in the wind or with broadheads (which I CAN make them shoot well with straight fletch also, when I want to spend the time, easier to just change arrows). You can get away with it on field points because they are forgiving. It may not be for everyone, but you dont have to be a smarta** just because someone does something differently than you.
> 
> Sorry for hyjacking the thread, hows the BH tuning going?


Wasn't being smart. Like I said whatever works for ya


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## Forced_2_xforce (Jun 15, 2009)

nomad11 said:


> so lets try it for a 3rd time...and as different as i can. In 2004 as someone who shot mechanicals for several years...i made it a absolute personal goal to shoot fixed heads properly. In doing so i went to the extreme to align bh with vanes, visually..as best i could from aluminum arrow to arrow. I also would not be supportiv/tolerate any wobble what so ever. I spent hours but succeeded in doing both...no wobble and bh-vane alignment. I shot virtually daily back then and got all but one bh/arrow combination to hit where i was aiming back then. Further, back then, i shot with dovetail sights that switched between fp sights and bh sights. Funny thing was that my fp sight was dead on...and my bh sight was dead on (two different sights) with aluminum arrows. But reverse the two...and they were not dead on!! (i.e. Bh didn't hit w/ fps) today..i have two bows that shoot the same carbon arrow. And today there is no difference between fp and bh impact out to 40yrds..a personal limit (all using the same fixed sight). Personally i have no doubt they'll shoot as well at much greater distances. I attribute this transition to a better understanding of the tuning process as well as making arrows that spin true - and defininetly not to the vane-blade alignment effort - dispite my original druthers. Look, if i thought it made a differnence i say it. As it is today blade-vane alignment has no differnence in my groups at 40yds back then...and today, with more experience in tuning....there is no differece between my 40yrd fp and bh poi. What is the difference? Fine tuning and no wobble - the blade-vane alignment has nothing to do with it. As a veteran..i can't say it strong enough....blade-vane alignment is an abosute mental solution (/panecia) to a problem that is absurd. In reality there may be issues convincing you you've solved the problem and those preventing you from achieving the next level. But trust me...i've been at the vane-blade alignment theory...tried it and realize that its garbage(!!!). In the end there is room for learning..........its up to you if you wish to achieve the next level.


lol


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## IL 88 (Aug 15, 2007)

Forced_2_xforce said:


> lol


I thought you weren't going to post on this anymore? 

Everyone but you is in agreement it makes no difference. If fletching orientation DOES make a difference, there is something else wrong with your setup whether you like it or not.

So how is the bh tuning coming along?


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## xwinderx (Aug 8, 2009)

do you shoot a d-loop with a nocking point crimped on inside it?
my broadheads were all over the place when I had that set up.

removed the nocking point and just used the d-loop and the broadheads starting hitting exactly where my field points did.


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## Duck65 (Nov 30, 2005)

nomad11 said:


> So...lets see, we have arrows that do not wobble..spin true and align with one's vanes. I, with some others above have no wobble, arrows that spin true but do not align blades with vanes. And we both achieve the same desired results. As an example I recently finished building 10 non blade-vane aligned hunting arrows....8 of them, with broadheads, grouped with field points out to 40yds...out of two different bows set to shoot that arrow. Turned the nock on the two that didn't work so well and got one to work as desired. I think the common theme here is.....no wobble. Pay most of the attention to the broadhead, insert and shaft....get them to spin great. If you want to go the extra mile to align the blades..have at it. But I bet if they don't spin good, regardless of alignment...its not going to perform. So I'll stick to my earlier response...blade-vane alignment is not a critical factor as it makes no difference for me.


I agree, if they wobble they will not shoot.


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## Jathinkysaurus (Oct 8, 2006)

dpops211 said:


> I was in your same boat for a looooong time. I tried everything. I just could not get my broadhead close to my field point. It would consistantly hit 4-5 inches left of the field point. I moved my rest around, increased and decreased poundage, tried lighter points, heavier points, tried 340's 400's, 350's etc.... And finally! I realized what i was doing wrong. At full draw i looked up at my top cam and noticed that my string was coming off the cam at and angle. I changed my hand placement on the grip to where the string was coming off the cam track in perfect allignment. PROBLEM SOLVED. Now i can shoot 100 gn. points, 125's, 340 spine arrows, 400 spine arrows etc.... and they all hit the exact same spot at 20 and 30 yards.
> 
> *SO check and make sure your not tourquing your bow.* Look at the top cam at full draw and make sure the string is not coming off the cam track at an angle. For the longest time i blamed it on my set up, but all along it was just shooter error..


This was my experience too. Went through much frustration with tuning until I figured out I was torquing the grip. Easy way I found to check this, is to stand in front of a full-length mirror, draw the bow and aim at your reflection. The stabiliser and everything should be pointing squarely back at you. If you can see the side of the bow in the mirror, change your grip until it is straight.


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## SPTiger (Dec 18, 2007)

I'm to the point that I'm about to give up archery all together because I can't get a broadhead to fly consistently. To say I'm frustrated is an understatement.


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

Duck65 said:


> I agree, if they wobble they will not shoot.


And the faster they go, the worse they will shoot 

At 250fps, if your setup is good, and tuning ducks are in a row, an aggressive helical 4" vane/feather, or a 4" QuickSpin will shoot well with a surprising amount of wobble.

At 290fps+, if it wobbles, it will wander.


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