# Learnig to let down when your float open up.....



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

There was a good discussion about this here -> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2205731&highlight=down


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## Slingshot (Jan 1, 2008)

Only accept perfect shots....

Change your perspective, you only shoot good shots. Just because you draw the bow does not mean it has to go off. 

Mind set is first, than you have to train that way short games first. One hole in the target, once you can do 60 arrows in the same hole move back 5 yards. 

You have to train your mind, under no circumstance shoot a shot that's not right. Seems easy but if you don't think this way every single time your bow is in your hand your not progressing. 

One x at a time, make every shot count. Always


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

One thing that has helped me is practicing letting down. It sounds goofy but I will draw and hold on the spot as long as I can and then let down. No intention of shooting. It gives you a good idea how long you typically have before the shot breaks down. You will recognize it earlier and be comfortable letting down. Just practice it for about 30 mins or so when you have time.


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## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

cbrunson said:


> One thing that has helped me is practicing letting down. It sounds goofy but I will draw and hold on the spot as long as I can and then let down. No intention of shooting. It gives you a good idea how long you typically have before the shot breaks down. You will recognize it earlier and be comfortable letting down. Just practice it for about 30 mins or so when you have time.


I can definitely see that being beneficial and want to work that into my training. I think a good side benefit is you can really get to learn how your float moves without having the firing engine running. I haven't been able to completely separate the two yet.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

cbrunson said:


> One thing that has helped me is practicing letting down. It sounds goofy but I will draw and hold on the spot as long as I can and then let down. No intention of shooting. It gives you a good idea how long you typically have before the shot breaks down. You will recognize it earlier and be comfortable letting down. Just practice it for about 30 mins or so when you have time.


This is a great exercise. However, you have to be careful of one thing. That is to use the same muscles the same way as when you are going to complete the shot. I found that I could hold on the X almost indefinitely (well, 8 to 10 seconds anyway  ) until it came time to let the arrow go. Then I had to shift a little to execute.

It's a very effective exercise if done right. It really helps keep you from rushing the shot. I feel like I'm more in control of the shot and can more easily make the decision to finish the shot or let down.

Allen


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## CarlV (Mar 12, 2008)

Shoot with an attitude.

Really

Letting down when you need to is the hardest thing in archery. We all know when we should, now don't we. 

Why don't we let down when we should? Couple of reasons for me: I don't want to inconvenience others on the line with me by making them wait - practice or tournament. I used a lot of energy and effort to get to full draw and I'm only a "click" away from making a shot and seeing if it's a good one.

Shoot with an attitude: Don't give a rat's behind if the shot get's let down or it goes to fruition. Others have to wait....sux to be them. 

It sounds rough, but watch the very best - they shoot their game and if others have to wait - Oh well.

Since I've started doing this it's improved my game considerably. Others at our practice night have commented that it has caused them to start letting down or slowing up their shots - and they are shooting higher scores. Imagine that.


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## baller (Oct 4, 2006)

aread said:


> This is a great exercise. However, you have to be careful of one thing. That is to use the same muscles the same way as when you are going to complete the shot. I found that I could hold on the X almost indefinitely (well, 8 to 10 seconds anyway  ) until it came time to let the arrow go. Then I had to shift a little to execute.
> 
> It's a very effective exercise if done right. It really helps keep you from rushing the shot. I feel like I'm more in control of the shot and can more easily make the decision to finish the shot or let down.
> 
> Allen




Practing without shooting is how I do it as well, with a hinge and a trigger....I will Draw, anchor, aim and pull through the "shot" as if I am trying to execute a perfect shot and will stay there until my float is off spot.....let down, reset do it again. I'll do this until my float becomes less drastic and later in the cycle. It works well to have a 2nd hinge for this that's set so cold that it will not go off no matter how much you pull through the shot. With the trigger I just dont put my thumb on the button, but still pull with the same pressures I use during the shot process...I'll do at least 2 "ends" of this at the beginning of my practice rounds to make sure to train and re-train myself that just because the dot is on the spot doesn't mean the bow has to go off right away....keep the spot there and let it float, make the good shot.


Good luck, good shooting.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

COMMITMENT!! 
Let down the moment you start "thinking", i.e. once you "think" about the shot you most likely should let down. You must commit to doing this. Archery is all about self control, taking charge of what you are doing (executing a shot) will let you make only your best shots which ultimately leads to your best result (scores).

Make the COMMITMENT to literally control yourself.

I don't know the exact stats but I know the odds of missing an X are much, much greater when I "think" a shot is going wrong and shoot it than when I let down and then start _completely _over.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Ned250 said:


> I can definitely see that being beneficial and want to work that into my training. I think a good side benefit is you can really get to learn how your float moves without having the firing engine running. I haven't been able to completely separate the two yet.


Like Allen said, do everything the same as you would if you are going to shoot. Just don't shoot. Let down and do it again. Try to notice differences in your form that affect the float.


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## mainehunt (Sep 11, 2006)

I said on the other thread, "I have never let down and then wished that I hadn't."

Every single time that I have let down, it was the right thing to do. Never have I regretted it, not even once.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

If anyone has shot with me at the last 2 ASA events - they will tell you I let down more than anyone. I refuse to rip the hinge off, but because Im a ball of nerves and never settle down my bubble looks like a wash machine.

I am not kidding when I tell you at ASA Ft Benning - on the 43 yard hugely angled Hyena....I let down 6 times before I fired the shot. Luckily we were a small group and I did not hold anyone up.

this weekend on 40 targets I can guarantee you I let down 60 times!

I just wish I always had the best outcome upon letting down, but I know its still better than not.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Garceau said:


> If anyone has shot with me at the last 2 ASA events - they will tell you I let down more than anyone. I refuse to rip the hinge off, but because Im a ball of nerves and never settle down my bubble looks like a wash machine.
> 
> I am not kidding when I tell you at ASA Ft Benning - on the 43 yard hugely angled Hyena....I let down 6 times before I fired the shot. Luckily we were a small group and I did not hold anyone up.
> 
> ...


Oh god, don't let the "rules are rules" guys see this! They may try and get you DQ'd...... They must be the same folks that think "zero tolerance" is an awesome plan!


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I agree - some groups that would not have worked well. But luckily it was a supportive group. I was shooting up on a very tough course and was clean, and everyone was very supportive.

I was aware of time limits and if I was holding anyone up. Heck the group even told me to walk off the stake and not look at the target for a few moments, just clear it out completely.

its guys like that which really make me appreciate not only the competiviness but that many people want to see someone else succeed.....


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## Lungbustah (Oct 4, 2010)

I've never shot a bad shot after letting down. Anytime I feel like it's taking too long or i have thoughts about cheating my hinge I let down immediately


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

cbrunson said:


> One thing that has helped me is practicing letting down. It sounds goofy but I will draw and hold on the spot as long as I can and then let down. No intention of shooting. It gives you a good idea how long you typically have before the shot breaks down. You will recognize it earlier and be comfortable letting down. Just practice it for about 30 mins or so when you have time.


I will start to put this in my practice. Thanks for the drills.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Looney Bin said:


> I will start to put this in my practice. Thanks for the drills.


You bet. Just remember to rest between draws, just like you would if you were shooting. It will seem impossible to hold well if you don't. And rest like you would be retrieving your arrows.


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

there is some great advice on here just one more little thing most people shoot bows with to much poundage,they get tired during execution of the shot,most archer`s would be better off with a 40-50 lb. bow or maybe less.as terry wunderle says a slow hit is better than a fast mis . good luck,Pete53


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## 45 x (Dec 4, 2011)

I should let down more often than I really do, good responses though


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

I need to practice letting down also, I never do and I have said a million times after the shot " I should have let down" I know that too, but I keep just punching and firing , Think I am gonna start trying to practice that so I can feel like its ok and sometimes a normal part of the process.


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## WhitBri (Jan 30, 2007)

Have to value a let down as much or more than shooting an x. Easier said than done of course


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

you need to teach your shot execution ...specifically your release execution....to be "cold blooded". to not care if it runs or not. 
it is done by teaching it that a let-down on a bad float or set up, is as much a reward as a good shot that goes to the x-ring. this is done by " practicing perfect practice". some i'm sure we all have heard before, but very few people really know the importance it has.
at the ten yard bale, where the x-ring is real big and relatively easy to stay in, shooting scoring rounds and letting down on any little deviation from the perfect execution of each shot. the last element of your shot is the release execution, and it has precedence over the entire shot, when it is satisfied everything is good, it runs it's program, and the arrow leaves. if you notice any little deviation from perfect, it should refuse to run and you let-down. repeated training in this attitude, teaches it to be "cold-blooded" about running, not caring if it does or not, it will only run an a perfect set up, because the only reward it wants is either an arrow in the x-ring or a saved miss by refusing to run. 
you have to understand that when we force a shot, we forcing the release execution part of our shot to run when it shouldn't and the only time we force a shot, is when we don't let the release execution make the final decision to proceed with the shot.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Why not kill two birds with this stone, Every day just do the same warm up where you draw back and study your float pattern until your breath runs out and let down. then draw back and work on shooting the shot with that same float without letting your firing engine affect the float. 

Holy crap this little warm up is doing many things:

1. You are warming up

2. You are studying your float

3. Your are trying to shoot the shot with the same float

4. You are learning to let down on a regular basis.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

The other thing I noticed from your original post is you are stuck on comparing your scores from day to day and you need to stop doing this, in fact you need to stop shooting scoring rounds. Scoring rounds do nothing but pizz you off when you shoot the same old score or a worse score so stop shooting scoring rounds, I come into the shop on a regular basis and I very rarely shoot scoring rounds because I do other fun shooting sessions that are very very very rewarding even when I miss a x. Here they are and I hope you get something from the article.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Indoor shooting sessions
When I first shot indoor I would put up a 5-spot target and I would shoot a scoring round every time and after a while I would get stressed out and stop enjoying the indoor thing. Now I only shoot scoring rounds maybe one time a week and I can't wait to get into the indoor range and shoot because I love the shooting sessions that I do.

Running x totals:

I put up a new or old target and I lay out two hinges on my stool and I start shooting with one of the hinges and I keep a running total of all the x's I get until I miss and then I switch hinges and start a new running total. This shooting session is really rewarding in many ways because it will nail down after a few weeks which hinge is your dominant choice for good scores and from time to time you will get in a groove and shoot stupid high amounts of x's. I had a goal of getting to 30x's in a row at first and then it got to the point where I was getting into the 60's 70's and even 90's on a regular basis and I did have two special days last year where I made it to 111 x's in a row and then 173x's in a row and that day was simply special because I felt like I was a real pro shooter that day.


Two hinge scoring round:

This is a really cool scoring round because every time you go to get your arrows you also switch hinges, I normally go from my dominant smooth moon hinge to a clicker hinge because they are so different feeling but the cool thing is it really gives you the confidence that you are a good all around shooter when you routinely can do this and shoot solid scoring rounds at or above your average. Two of my 60x scoring rounds came while doing this session last year and it was so cool to get down to the last couple ends and you haven't missed and then it happens.

Counting inside out x's:

I am a 59x guy for the last year and to me it is a mental thing that I need to clean up and then I will be a daily 60x guy but it is still irritating thing to get 59x's on a regular basis, so start keeping track of your inside out x's and it will totally change your perception of what is really going on. Why would it really make that big a difference in your outlook because last year when I shot a 58x one day I shot 56 inside out x's, I left the shooting range so freaking excited to tell my wife and best friend what had happened that I wasn't even concerned that I only shot a 58x. I usually have around 52 of the 60 shot will be inside out and to me what that means is there is on average about 8 shots per round that have a chance of being just a little out. By getting my inside out x count up to 55 and above there are just less chances of arrows being out. Simple as that.

New target, new target, new target shooting session:

I only do this session when the shop owner isn't looking and is paying attention at customers. Basically I shoot x's until I miss a x and I imediately put up a new target and start shooting a fresh one until I miss another target and I don't do scoring rounds, I keep track of inside out x's or something else but the second I miss a x I switch the target to a new one. I have actually made it through a entire shooting session with around 85 shots that were inside the x on a 5-spot and I have that target at home as one of my best days ever. To me a clean target that only has holes inside the x is a beautiful thing but something you have to get used to and cherish.

Float me Shoot me shooting session:

This little shooting session must be done for about 15 minutes at least 2 days a week and is by far the most important shooting session that I do period so don't over look it. Take only one arrow out and draw back to anchor and simply float and study your float until you run out of breath and it goes to crap and let down, take a few breaths and draw back and shoot a shot using the same float. Go get your arrow and repeat. This shooting session is so important because you are learning what your float looks like when you aren't running a firing engine, then when you are running your firing engine on the next shot you will see if the engine is screwing with the float pattern and that is a really bad thing. Your firing engine shouldn't change the float pattern if it is a good firing engine. secondly studying your float is totally something overlooked and knowing what your float pattern really looks like is valuable. 


These are some of my favorite shooting sessions for indoor shooting and they keep me fresh and have given me some of my most cherished days on the shooting line, I really do very little scoring rounds but at the same time I am keeping track of something that is giving me a good feel where I am at.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I wrote that article and since then I have even started doing a couple new sessions, one of them is where I count inside out x's and I absolutely love that one. Sam Woltius is the pro shooter who gave me the idea. I do this when shooting scoring rounds or when keeping a running total and by keeping track of inside out x's it really gives icing on the cake type of meaning to your session that day.

My favorite inside out day was when I shot another stinking 300 58x round, I normally shoot a 58 or 59x when I am shooting by myself and it is a normal score but on this day I kept track of my inside out x's and I shot 54 of them. I was so freaking excited when I left the shooting range that day and I called my buddies and my wife and told them of my awesome shooting day when in all reality I had shot the same stinking 58x round I normally shoot.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I agree with what some of the people are saying about draw weight and proper rest between shots. I did a 900 round over the weekend and you'd be surprised how fresh you come back off a break, or what it can do for you to just take more time between shots. My best round of the day was my last of the 90, because it was like, this is all you have left for today, take your time, make them good. Dropped down once when I felt tired, 10 10 10 9 9 6.

I'd also second what people are saying in terms of allowing yourself to let down and not forcing the shot. If you've shot long enough you know what a bad shot feels like. From the recurve side, if I'm struggling through the clicker, I shank x% of the time doing it. Ego can get ahead of me because I can sometimes drag it through the clicker and it still works. But knowing when it is an increasingly low percentage play is important, and allowing yourself to stop the shot is the smart decision. I don't know about practicing dropping down but if in practice the situation arises, it is good training for a drop down.

I also have a tendency to pull through the clicker and then shoot anyway out of annoyance. Some of those go well too. But, same deal, you have to recognize what feels bad and is a low percentage shot, and just drop down right then. Same story, force yourself to make the right decision in practice.

But, coming full circle, some of this is also about taking time and managing energy and strength.


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## fanio (Feb 1, 2011)

Padgett said:


> Indoor shooting sessions
> ...
> Float me Shoot me shooting session:
> 
> ...


How do you go about "using the same float"? Can (should?) you actually influence your float physically? E.g. by using specific muscles or a specific pre-shot setup (body position)?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

How do I go about using the same float, well first of all most people don't even know what their acutal float pattern looks like because they never study their float. They only shoot arrows and never just draw back and study and let down, so the first issue is actually putting out the effort over a couple weeks to draw back and actually study it and then you will begin to recognize it and grow to love your float. 

Now once you have learned what it looks like then when you run your firing engine and actually shoot the shot one of two things is going to happen, either the float stays exactly the same or it is going to look different. I have a feeling that when you do this your float is going to be different the second you start your engine and this is the moment the actual work begins, you can train and find out how to run your engine and not influence the float pattern. The key is a smooth consistant pull into the wall and a smooth yield or squeeze or whatever you do to fire the hinge.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

This float thing.... Spots kill me every time it seems. And then when I shoot 3D my pin just seems to sit right where I want it. Only conclusion I can come to is there's no dang bull's eye or circle to stay in. If my pin does wander I don't have any problem with letting down.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

fanio said:


> How do you go about "using the same float"? Can (should?) you actually influence your float physically? E.g. by using specific muscles or a specific pre-shot setup (body position)?


I don’t really think you can fine tune it like that. I think you work on form consistency and set up characteristics that promote good holding (floating), and only fire the release when everything is right. The more practice you get holding on target, without the pressure of shot execution, the more confident and consistent you will become. When you have that down, then comes the shot execution without changing the float. Like Padgett says, you can’t fix the float during the shot execution. You need to maintain it through the shot execution.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

If it was there I didn't see it. Duplicate tournament time. You have X number of minutes to shoot. Break down the shots to let your bow arm recover, 15 to 17 seconds at least between shots. Bottom line shoots first, X number of minutes. Top line shoots next and X number of minutes. Scoring is next with X number of minutes. And it begins all over again. Done properly one should feel as strong at the end as when they began...all things being correct I should add.


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

Padgett,

Ill try not to score my rounds. Its kind of ingrained. I used to spend a lot of time talking mental game stuff with a well respected coach. My scores were a little higher at the time. He suggest I start tracking my scores as to determine a scoring average. That way I could see which adjustments were responsible for improvements.

I'll put some thought into some of your scoring techniques. Though I do similar type things to end my practice sessions already.ie 10 inside out x's to end a session of none scoring.

Thanks.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I have never been a pro in any sport but I have been close a couple of times and I have always had a way of rising near the top of any sport I play, to me when I watch my buddies who shoot the scores similar to your scoring average that you gave they ignore the obvious simple things that could bump them to the next level day after day. I am a 300 58x guy and I do the same thing and that keeps me from being a 60x guy but I simply have less little issues than they do, so to me you really have to step back and be honest with your shooting and self and make the decision to eliminate the little issues that add up to missed x's. I really do believe that I will become a everyday 60x guy because I am down to just a couple of little things that I really do believe I can eliminate and move up to the next level.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Here are my issues that are left to over come:

1. When I come to anchor and settle in on the x a few times during a scoring round my pin will float on the right or left half on the x instead of floating more centrally and if this happens 3 or 4 times a round I will miss one of them. Simply let down instead of taking the risk, there is no reason for me to take this risk.

2. I have a tendency during the scoring round to begin pushing forward with the top of my grip and this lowers my float pattern to the bottom edge of the x sometimes one will barely miss on the lower edge. Solution, keep a balanced neutral grip.

That is it, the difference between being a 60x shooter and a 58x shooter. It comes down to simple decisions that you make or don't make.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Padgett said:


> I have never been a pro in any sport but I have been close a couple of times and I have always had a way of rising near the top of any sport I play, to me when I watch my buddies who shoot the scores similar to your scoring average that you gave they ignore the obvious simple things that could bump them to the next level day after day. I am a 300 58x guy and I do the same thing and that keeps me from being a 60x guy but I simply have less little issues than they do, so to me you really have to step back and be honest with your shooting and self and make the decision to eliminate the little issues that add up to missed x's. I really do believe that I will become a everyday 60x guy because I am down to just a couple of little things that I really do believe I can eliminate and move up to the next level.


Padget,

Can you list some of those "obvious simple things"? I'm probably in the same boat as those guys. It would help me start knocking those down one by one.

Maybe an new Padgett Article. 

Thanks,
Allen


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Looney Bin said:


> Padgett,
> 
> Ill try not to score my rounds. Its kind of ingrained. I used to spend a lot of time talking mental game stuff with a well respected coach. My scores were a little higher at the time. He suggest I start tracking my scores as to determine a scoring average. That way I could see which adjustments were responsible for improvements.
> 
> ...


Most people shoot better in practice than for real. I wouldn't keep score of it but I would work on every little thing that makes you miss, in practice, which will up your potential score. Practice the way you'd like to compete. That being said, you need to be willing to risk a backward step for two forward steps. An obsession with score may interfere with risking and implementing a technical improvement, which may initially make your shots less accurate but over time improve your ceiling.

I have found a league outside of my tournaments useful as a "practice with teeth." The score counts and can be compared over time, but isn't life or death. I can risk a bad day on a technical change, I can have a bad day and I haven't embarrassed myself at a tournament.

So, I don't keep track of my score in practice but once I've implemented any changes I like to see the group tighten back up. League, I like to perform but I also use it to experiment. I guess there I don't want to go below some unacceptable score, but particularly if I finish strong, I'm OK with a less than ideal round. Tournament rounds are where I hold myself to performance. There I am looking to improve each time.

Apples to apples, the worst way to judge yourself is practice versus competition. I compare NFAA and FITA rounds that count. Practice I need to be free to screw up a little to get the new idea, and then once it's in, I will be shooting better than I can in a tournament. That's potential.

Now, if you are having a dramatic difference between consistent practice performance and consistent tournament performance, you need to sit back and ask why. For example, it's much easier to anchor consistently in recurve with no clicker in practice, than to replicate that sort of skill in a tournament. Your technique my be hard to replicate under stress with a clock going. There may also be mental game issues.


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## Mestang99 (Jan 10, 2013)

One point I have not seen covered from the original post is STOP SHOOTING when you are so tired it is affecting your shot. All you accomplish is discouraging yourself and improper muscle memories. Worst case you start tweaking your bow to match our broken down form.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

you don't "use" a float, you get what ever float you get for a given day. some are better some are worse. all you can do is work on have the best form and shot execution you can and live with the float you get that day or session.
the better and more confident your shot process and execution is, the better your float will be (given the elementary conditions of bow fit, confidence in your release execution, and attitude are in order). the key is to recognize when it's not a really good day and be ready, willing and able to let down as much as you have to. that is what working on the shot process at the 10 yard bale does. by refusing every shot set up that isn't perfect with a let down, you condition yourself and your shot process, to accept the inevitability that you will have to let down on some shots.....the easier that is to do, the better you will shoot and the greater the reward for letting down on a shot that would otherwise be forced, into a most likey miss.


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## ctownshooter (Jun 6, 2013)

subscribed


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## jimmyk (Oct 14, 2007)

good read. Subscibed for future reference.


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

I shot a 15yd 5 spot game last night with a 300 49X. I let down several times during the second half of the round. Its was a 150 23X first half and a 150 26X second half.

Padgett,

I did a running X's game before I shot a round that was scored with 32 in a row at 15yds.

Its funny but I switched hinges back to an Inside Out from the HT pro Brass. I just felt super confident with it since I picked it up. I have been tweaking my release technique. Not to mention I'm coming to the conclusion I shoot better with my shots breaking in the 4-6 second range. My float seems to start opening up after 6 seconds from the click.

Feeling pretty good.


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## dua lam pa (May 29, 2014)

just let down when your brain goes to the wrong place


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## johnny liggett (Aug 13, 2005)

tag.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

one issue that works against that shooting better in practice than in scoring, is to score every arrow you shoot, whether practice or a scoring round. 
the idea is to put your shot under that pressure every single shot and tailor your practice to assume that pressure, as well. it's the "internal content", or "background criteria" of "practicing perfect practice" ....if every shot has the same importance, there are no unimportant shots, and your process then becomes accustomed to operating under that pressure. the end picture is that the first shot of a scoring round, and the 60th x shot, has the same level of importance and your shot process is OK with that. then that differentiation between practice and competition evaporates, because EVERY shot you make is a competition shot and there's no more pressure on your shot process at the end of a good round, than there is at the beginning.
each shot is individually as important as the others and as important as the next.
the key is to recognize that "it's only practice" attitude and strangle it, before it becomes a patterned behavior. the only way to do it, is to put a value on each and every arrow that leaves your bow, by practicing in scoring round sessions, unless of course you're working on a specific element of your shot process, at the blind bale. the issue, is to separate your shooting, into process developmental shooting, or shooting for score. basically, as far as practice goes.... if you're not shooting for score, you better be at the 10 yard blind bale. 
it is this discipline, that builds the top pros into what they are.


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