# Longer Riser/Shorter Limbs vs Shorter Riser/Longer Limbs?



## hawk45 (Nov 9, 2009)

What are the pro's cons of each?


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Assuming the same overall bow length, short limbs will be snappier and faster, long limbs will be smoother and more forgiving. If you go long, make sure you are drawing well past the string lift point (the point where the string loses contact with the recurve) or else you will be losing a lot of stored energy. Conventional recurves store a lot of energy after the lift point.


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## hawk45 (Nov 9, 2009)

I've been going over this for a long time.. gets frustrating and move on to something else for a while. But I think I want to take the plunge this time. I just want something to try to see if I like it. I've got a 30-31" DL and worry a 66" Samick Journey may be too small. OMP has a 68" I may try. I was thinking ILF for versatility but the riser alone is $250 for the one I want then add limbs/string/etc and I'm at over $400. Plus the wood bows look so much nicer.. and the price is right. No place around me has any sort of traditional bows other than a few Bear models.


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## Stone Bridge (May 20, 2013)

In all the chrono work I've ever done comparing short limbs on a 25" riser to medium limbs - 66" bow vs. 68" bow, I've never seen any real difference in speeds and all of my best speeds have been clocked with mediums. I only draw 27".

A real test would be to have identical make shorts and mediums of the same weight. Many pairs like this. I never had that luxury. But over the years I've recorded every speed trial using shorts, mediums, and longs, along with the draw weight at my draw length. Lots of data that is all very close in speed with one obvious trend - that being, I tend to get the best speed out of medium limbs vs. shorts. Long limbs I could not say were slow for being too long for my draw length. They shot equally quick. I choose mediums simply because I like the way the bow feels at 68" for my draw length, and all my best speeds were shot using mediums. By "best" I mean a mere 1 to 3 fps better than shorts or longs. Probably a statistical anomaly more than anything else.

In conclusion, in my mind, choose a longer limb if you are a target shooter. Longer is better for accuracy in my experience. I'll take accuracy over 2 fps every day. I can't think of a single reason to shoot shorts on a target riser unless your draw under 25 inches. Even then I'd still use medium limbs. Poundage on the fingers is what counts more than limb length - that and quality, or construction of the limb; some are faster than others.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I agree with Stone, when faced with the choice of picking up a few extra fps, or having a more forgiving bow, I take the forgiving bow. I have a 32 inch draw and shoot 70 and 72 inch bows. I do not hunt and I manage to tolerate the occasional constrained shots when shooting 3D. It's good that you are at least considering longer bows. Many jump right to the Sage no matter what their draw length is. There is a place for long and short. It depends on what you intend to do with the bow.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Hank, Stoney - 

A few years back some Oly coaches were (strongly) recommending that shooters using a 68" bow, should opt of a 23" riser + long limbs rather than the more common25" riser and medium limbs. The loss was literally 1 - 2 fps, but the claim of a smoother draw - especially through the clicker break, was compelling. Apparently some companies took that to heart and all but stopped producing high end 23" risers. (Sarcasm intended...)

With ILF limbs limb bolt and therefore preload adjustment, we may have really minimized a lot of that, simply by playing one tuning parameter against another.

Viper1 out.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Hawk, Hank and Viper have a point, you should consider a 23" riser and long limbs. Your draw length is probably shorter on recurve than compound, but sounds like it would be on the long side, so I would err longer rather than shorter in your case. Check out the Hoyt Excel riser, it is pretty economical.

ILF is great because you can swap limbs, add accessories, change grips, etc. at will. It is fun buying one of every bow you like in 5# increments until your form, strength, and preferences settle-in but that gets to be expensive.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Viper1 said:


> Hank, Stoney -
> 
> A few years back some Oly coaches were (strongly) recommending that shooters using a 68" bow, should opt of a 23" riser + long limbs rather than the more common25" riser and medium limbs. The loss was literally 1 - 2 fps, but the claim of a smoother draw - especially through the clicker break, was compelling. Apparently some companies took that to heart and all but stopped producing high end 23" risers. (Sarcasm intended...)
> 
> ...


You can see the effect you are describing by plotting the first derivative of the draw force curve. Longer limbs force the string lift point (point where the string loses contact with the recurve) further out in the draw. This is the point where pounds/inch of draw hits a minimum and starts to rise. If you push it out too far you are not working the limbs hard enough and will lose too much stored energy. Super recurves, such as those made by Border, are designed to push the lift point out to a point close to full draw. That is why they feel so smooth at the clicker. The key though, is that super recurves are designed to store more energy early. Other manufacturers, like Hoyt, are trying to simulate this affect using conventional geometries since the super recurve is difficult to mass produce (the limb bends back on itself when unstrung). I have measured some Hoyt Quattro's and got a really flat first derivative curve around the lift point, rather than a minimum. The F7's I tested looked more conventional. I would need repeat the test on another set of limbs before I would go as far as saying that there was a real change, though, I tested both the Quattro's and F7's on the same riser at the same session.

hawk45,

You need to consider your draw length first. I was shooting with an archery in Arizona recently who had long limbs on a short riser and was getting a very short point on. He did not have a long draw length. We looked at his bow and found that he was shooting too close to the lift point. From what I have heard, he made changes and is now getting more speed. The thing to recognize is that archers put too much emphasis on bow weight. That is because it is easy to measure. We use bow weight as a rough approximation of performance but it is energy and efficiency that we should be looking at. The problem is that energy and efficiency are not trivial to measure.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Hank that good guys at borders really has done the work for us. All I had to do was look at their table labeled bowlength drawlength recommendations.
Dan


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