# ASA Qualifier ?



## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

I am pretty sure everyone qualifies.


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## Davik (Apr 16, 2003)

Not so, in Texas...only the top 20% from each class make it...if you shoot at least two qualifiers you qualify for the state shoot, but everybody doesn't just get in first time out. good luck.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

It really depends on the State Dir. Some States have a percentage that qualify at each shoot. Some States let you come if you participate in the Qualifier.

Personally I feel as though if you shoot a Qualifier, you should be allowed to shoot in the States. It makes no sense to me to be exclusive rather than inclusive. If somebody wants to shoot, then let them shoot. No need to turn away a perfectly good dollar.


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## FLDartonGuy (Jul 23, 2008)

Straight from the ASA State Federation rules:

QUALIFYING PROCEDURES:
A. The cut off for qualifying at each State Qualifier will be the greater of the top 10 shooters who have not previously qualified, or the top 50% in each class, whichever is greater. If the class has 20 or less people registered to compete, the first 10 shooters, who have not previously done so, will qualify including everyone who ties for 10th.
B. In case of an odd number of shooters in a class, the number will be rounded up to determine the number of qualified shooters.
C. If a shooter has previously qualified their name will be passed over and the next name in order of finish will count as qualified.
D. A shooter who competes in two (2) ASA State Qualifiers, regardless of finish will qualify for that State’s Championship.
E. The host club will list shooters in each class; in the order they finished, and which shooters qualified.
F. During the awards ceremony for the tournament, the cut off score for qualifying will be announced for each class. The contact person must keep a qualified shooter list. A phone number for the contact person of the host club must be posted so shooters may call to determine if they qualified.
G. The ASA Office will only refer callers to the Point of Contact listed for the qualifier if competitors call the office for information. The ASA Office will post qualifier results on the ASA Web Site in a timely manner, depending on the Pro/Am schedule, AFTER receiving them from the host club. If there is any doubt, the host club should be contacted for results.
H. In order to participate in the state championship, you must qualify in that state.
I. Semi-pros may compete in ASA State Qualifiers and State Championships and qualify for the ASA Classic through the Federation Tour.
J. ASA Lifetime Members are automatically qualified to compete in any ASA State Championship


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## FLDartonGuy (Jul 23, 2008)

I do agree with Spoon though. I know here in Florida I don't believe there is a problem qualifying. I don't see why they would turn down money though. I say if someone shows up to the championship that hasn't qualified....let them shoot.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

FLDartonGuy said:


> I do agree with Spoon though. I know here in Florida I don't believe there is a problem qualifying. I don't see why they would turn down money though. I say if someone shows up to the championship that hasn't qualified....let them shoot.


Someone who hasn't qualified should be excluded from winning the State Championship but ANYONE who shot a Qualifier should be allowed to shoot. If you follow the predetermined steps, ie, shoot a Qualifier, you should be allowed to compete for the State Championship. Telling someone that they aren't good enough to shoot or didn't shoot enough qualifiers isn't good for the sport.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Anyone can shoot the shoot...they just can not win anything, if they haven't qualified. plain and simple


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Spoon13 said:


> Someone who hasn't qualified should be excluded from winning the State Championship but ANYONE who shot a Qualifier should be allowed to shoot. If you follow the predetermined steps, ie, shoot a Qualifier, you should be allowed to compete for the State Championship. Telling someone that they aren't good enough to shoot or didn't shoot enough qualifiers isn't good for the sport.



That is not fully true.....There is parameters that are set forth in the rules...It's either top 10 or 50% which ever is greater.....along with every person that has tied for 10th...... Another thing to the rules is if everyone 10 ppl that say shot qualifer 1.....came and shot qualifier 2..... And there was 11 shooters...and that 11th shooter came in 11th................ He/She would be the 1st qualifier from that event, since the first 10 were grandfathered by the first shoot. This is a great tool for those that shoot the later shoots... and have person that have already shot an qualfied...it bumps them up the ladder.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> That is not fully true.....There is parameters that are set forth in the rules...It's either top 10 or 50% which ever is greater.....along with every person that has tied for 10th...... Another thing to the rules is if everyone 10 ppl that say shot qualifer 1.....came and shot qualifier 2..... And there was 11 shooters...and that 11th shooter came in 11th................ He/She would be the 1st qualifier from that event, since the first 10 were grandfathered by the first shoot. This is a great tool for those that shoot the later shoots... and have person that have already shot an qualfied...it bumps them up the ladder.



I understand all that. But if 30 people shoot say Open B at a qualifier and that this the only qualifier they attend, then they should be qualified to shoot and win the State Championship. I will NEVER tell the bottom 15 that they can't shoot. It's not good business and I don't see how it's good for ASA or the sport. It's not like most States are stressed for room. A properly setup ASA State range can easily accomodate 300 shooters. If you have more than that, then I could see maybe a limited qualifcation. But since most States aren't seeing those numbers, Everybody shoots should be the policy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Spoon13 said:


> I understand all that. But if 30 people shoot say Open B at a qualifier and that this the only qualifier they attend, then they should be qualified to shoot and win the State Championship. I will NEVER tell the bottom 15 that they can't shoot. It's not good business and I don't see how it's good for ASA or the sport. It's not like most States are stressed for room. A properly setup ASA State range can easily accomodate 300 shooters. If you have more than that, then I could see maybe a limited qualifcation. But since most States aren't seeing those numbers, Everybody shoots should be the policy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well if you got those numbers for a class....then they need to shoot to qualify... We all know that Texas as of right now really only has the issue with the number of shooters in a class to worry about qualifying. So this is really a moot point. But, if you had 30 ppl in one class shoot...Im sorry but those 15 that did not qualify need to attend another qualifier to shoot for the championship. It's the simple rule of you need to win to progress. 

Just like any other sport...you dont reward well you came to compete...you didn't qualify but you can compete for the main championship. Sorry doesn't work that way.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Well if you got those numbers for a class....then they need to shoot to qualify... We all know that Texas as of right now really only has the issue with the number of shooters in a class to worry about qualifying. So this is really a moot point. But, if you had 30 ppl in one class shoot...Im sorry but those 15 that did not qualify need to attend another qualifier to shoot for the championship. It's the simple rule of you need to win to progress.
> 
> Just like any other sport...you dont reward well you came to compete...you didn't qualify but you can compete for the main championship. Sorry doesn't work that way.


Being that it is the ASA State Championship, membership should be required ( and is) and participation in an ASA sanctioned shoot (Qualifer) should be the ONLY prerequisite to compete. To restrict the field based on performance is a backwards way of thinking. 

If a shooter is willing to pay the $30 to join ASA and then the $15 or $20 (can't remember) to shoot a Qualifier and then is STILL willing to drop the $25 to shoot the State Championship, then they should be more than welcome to shoot.

When our club held a Qualifier in March, we had several locals join ASA and shoot the Qualifier just so they could come and shoot the State Championship at our club in July. They could have shot in the non-ASA sanctioned shoot running that day but chose to pony up and spend the extra money and join ASA. IF we said to them that they might not be qualified based on the score they turned in, I'm sure than most of them would NOT have joined ASA. As a member of ASA it is my and our responsibility to help grow the ASA and the sport of 3D archery at the local level. Some of the folks expressed interest in participating in a Pro/Am event. Will they?? Don't know. But because we allowed them to qualify for the State Championship, they are now interested.

If you want to call that "reward well you came to compete" then so be it. I call it getting what you paid for. Some of those folks paid $45-50 bucks to shoot the same range from the same stakes that could have cost them $10. Now they have to shoot for the trophy. 

But at least they'll be there.


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## Kadob62 (May 1, 2009)

You shoot a ASA qualifier in Alabama...

You *"WILL" *qualify to shoot the state tournament


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*qualifiers*



Spoon13 said:


> I understand all that. But if 30 people shoot say Open B at a qualifier and that this the only qualifier they attend, then they should be qualified to shoot and win the State Championship. I will NEVER tell the bottom 15 that they can't shoot. It's not good business and I don't see how it's good for ASA or the sport. It's not like most States are stressed for room. A properly setup ASA State range can easily accomodate 300 shooters. If you have more than that, then I could see maybe a limited qualifcation. But since most States aren't seeing those numbers, Everybody shoots should be the policy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If they did not qualify at one shoot, all they have to do is attend another qualifier and they will be automatically "qualified" to compete in the State Championship.
If all they have to do is show up then what's the point of even having qualifiers? How is that fair to those who did qualify?


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

XForce Girl said:


> If they did not qualify at one shoot, all they have to do is attend another qualifier and they will be automatically "qualified" to compete in the State Championship.
> If all they have to do is show up then what's the point of even having qualifiers? How is that fair to those who did qualify?





Spoon13 said:


> Being that it is the ASA State Championship, membership should be required ( and is) and participation in an ASA sanctioned shoot (Qualifer) should be the ONLY prerequisite to compete.


Look at it this way. You go to a State level ASA shoot (Qualifier). On target 18 your limbs crack, or your release breaks, or you get an emergency phone call from home. You can't shoot target 19 or 20 resulting in ZEROS. Your even score just became 20 down. You finish in 14th place out of 15 shooters. Do you really want to hear "Too bad, so sad, go drop another $20 plus travel on ANOTHER shoot if you really want to come play in the State Championship." Oh and by the way, the next and only other Qualifier is 4 hours from where you live. This just became a $200 venture for you. 

How is that fair??

How fair is it to look at someone who just wants to come and pay their hard earned money and enjoy the experience of shooting the State Championship of the organization they belong to knowing full darn well they aren't gonna win and say "You suck so just stay at home we don't want your money or your support"??

Bhtr3D made a good point. Only Texas has the numbers to even have to worry about who "qualifies" and who doesn't but the fact that ASA still has the mindset that not all archers are welcome at the State Championship is disturbing.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*well*



Spoon13 said:


> Look at it this way. You go to a State level ASA shoot (Qualifier). On target 18 your limbs crack, or your release breaks, or you get an emergency phone call from home. You can't shoot target 19 or 20 resulting in ZEROS. Your even score just became 20 down. You finish in 14th place out of 15 shooters. Do you really want to hear "Too bad, so sad, go drop another $20 plus travel on ANOTHER shoot if you really want to come play in the State Championship." Oh and by the way, the next and only other Qualifier is 4 hours from where you live. This just became a $200 venture for you.
> 
> How is that fair??
> 
> ...


Not trying to get into an argument as you make some valid points. However, too many people seem to have sense of entitlement these days. Everyone wants exceptions to the rules made on their behalf. If the qualifiers let everyone in how is that FAIR to those who did the work and shot better?
BTW- Anyone Can shoot at the Championship if they want. They just aren't eligible for prizes if they didn't qualify. I have driven many hours to attend shoots. If I cannot afford to go to the Pro/Ams is that fair to me??

The Rules are very generous IMO, No matter what "You cannot please everyone"


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

XForce Girl said:


> Not trying to get into an argument as you make some valid points. However, too many people seem to have sense of entitlement these days. Everyone wants exceptions to the rules made on their behalf. If the qualifiers let everyone in how is that FAIR to those who did the work and shot better?
> BTW- Anyone Can shoot at the Championship if they want. They just aren't eligible for prizes if they didn't qualify. I have driven many hours to attend shoots. If I cannot afford to go to the Pro/Ams is that fair to me??
> 
> The Rules are very generous IMO, No matter what "You cannot please everyone"


Participation in a Pro/Am event is not required for anything EXCEPT participation in the Classic and even that can be negotiated. I've seen that first hand. 

On the subject of fairness, i fail to understand your point of how excluding people is fair. Why is there a need to sub-classify shooters?? If the stars aligned and I shot 10 points better than I normally do and you had a bad day and shot 10 points less than you normally do, why is it unfair to me that I qualified and you didn't?? 

If people want to participate in EXCLUSIVE sports, try Golf or Soccer. Archery should be INCLUSIVE. There aren't enough of us to pick and choose who gets to play and who doesn't. Membership requirements SHOULD be met. I even understand participation in an ASA sanctioned event (Qualifier). But to tell a dues paying member of ASA that they aren't good enough to play in the State Championship is just plain WRONG.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

Spoon13 said:


> It really depends on the State Dir. Some States have a percentage that qualify at each shoot. Some States let you come if you participate in the Qualifier.
> 
> Personally I feel as though if you shoot a Qualifier, you should be allowed to shoot in the States. It makes no sense to me to be exclusive rather than inclusive. If somebody wants to shoot, then let them shoot. No need to turn away a perfectly good dollar.


You are correct Mat plus you know your state director takes good care of the NC shooters.
In NC we try to include everyone seeing our qualifers are so far apart distance wise.This includes the awards also not to just be able to shoot the championship.Our state shoot has constantly grow over the last 3 yrs and it would not have been possible without the great clubs we have or by telling someone that just because they could not drive cross the state for a qualifer oh well we are sorry.But on the other hand if a shooter just does not attempt to qualify when there is one close then they are out of luck.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

Spoon13 said:


> On the subject of fairness, i fail to understand your point of how excluding people is fair. Why is there a need to sub-classify shooters?? If the stars aligned and I shot 10 points better than I normally do and you had a bad day and shot 10 points less than you normally do, why is it unfair to me that I qualified and you didn't??


 If you have a bad day that's on you and it's time for you to work a little harder at eliminating what causes you to "have a bad day"

There needs to be a standard to be measured by or we will never have a reason to push ourselves to be better. Work smart and practice smart. If you truely want fairness, 
1.)Then hit the spot when it counts
2.) Hit it more than your competition
3.) Evaluate yourself based on the competition, not your feelings.

No person that meets the qualifying standards is eliminated. That's what you call fair! :


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*and*

Just for the record, here in VA we have not turned anyone away that has shot a qualifier, all have been able to participate in the championship.

Partially because we don't have large crowds or over 10 per class, but if we did there are ways to get those into the championship without breaking the rules.
State directors can award I think 4 passes to the States. And each club has this right also based on that qualifiers attendance. 1 pass for every 25 shooters.

There's something to be said for showing up at a shoot and working harder because you think you may not qualify. We attended a qualifier a few years ago and the club told us that everyone will qualify no matter how you shoot. It really took the fun out of the whole day.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

XForce Girl said:


> Just for the record, here in VA we have not turned anyone away that has shot a qualifier, all have been able to participate in the championship.
> 
> Partially because we don't have large crowds or over 10 per class, but if we did there are ways to get those into the championship without breaking the rules.
> State directors can award I think 4 passes to the States. And each club has this right also based on that qualifiers attendance. 1 pass for every 25 shooters.
> ...



As far as the Director's passes, I cannot say. But for the host club passes, those are to be used for members of the host club that worked the shoot and may not have had time to actually shoot the Qualifier. Those are not free to the public to be given out at random.

I will say that I guess we will just have to disagree on this matter. I personally don't understand the mindset behind telling a dues paying member of ASA that they are not welcome at the ASA State Championship. They have every right to shoot regardless of skill level. One should not be forced to spend more money or travel more or jump through more hoops than somebody else. Look at Life Members. The CHOSE to spend more money and as an aside, are exempt from having to shoot a Qualifier in their home State. That is a perk for becoming a Life Member. But it was a choice made by that person to drop the extra cash. To mandate that somebody is gonna have to pay more to get in is just not right to me.

The State Championship should be where you "measure" your skill level, not the Qualifier. 

Anyway, good luck in Virginia and Florida. Hope your shoots do well.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Rules are rules. Here in Illinois I have yet to see a class have more than 10 shooters. In our Qualifier Open C just had that this year and because of only being 10 all Qualified. We had 30 shooters and all 30 Qualified. So no big deal.

Shooting 2 Qualifiers does bring about questions. Joining the ASA and shooting 1 Qualifier does prove the shooter did support the State and ASA.
The way to get the rule changed is to seek out support and contact LD Falks.

Illinois has 24 clubs and Texas has 22. Texas, wide open as it is, has a lot of ASA supporters. I believe there were 285 shooters at their State Championship last year. Illiniois had 65. Those in Texas are use to traveling miles and miles, I guess. Those in Illinois don't like traveling? And then, state championships... or should I say state champions aren't PR for any archery organization? I guess they are a dime a dozen thing. I can't tell you who were State Champions last year. Well, I can for two classes, but because Open B and Open C Champions are members of our club.

The ASA is considering a section or forum on their site for State Champions.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*I See*



Spoon13 said:


> As far as the Director's passes, I cannot say. But for the host club passes, those are to be used for members of the host club that worked the shoot and may not have had time to actually shoot the Qualifier. Those are not free to the public to be given out at random.
> 
> I will say that I guess we will just have to disagree on this matter. I personally don't understand the mindset behind telling a dues paying member of ASA that they are not welcome at the ASA State Championship. They have every right to shoot regardless of skill level. One should not be forced to spend more money or travel more or jump through more hoops than somebody else. Look at Life Members. The CHOSE to spend more money and as an aside, are exempt from having to shoot a Qualifier in their home State. That is a perk for becoming a Life Member. But it was a choice made by that person to drop the extra cash. To mandate that somebody is gonna have to pay more to get in is just not right to me.
> 
> ...


I really do see your point. I have not had to tell anyone they could not compete so if it came down to it, I would not want to do it either. I would want everyone in my state to be able to compete.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

Here's a question. 

Guys own range and have 2 qualifers. Because they are working the shoot they don't get to shoot the qualifer. 

If they don't shoot another qualifer are they able to shoot in the state shoot and a bonafied shooter?


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*No!!*

NO!!.................. JK:angel:

The club will get a certain amount of passes for that situation. Depending on how many shooters they have.

OR they can shoot one arrow at each qualifier and automatically get in by attending 2 qualifiers.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

XForce Girl said:


> NO!!.................. JK:angel:
> 
> The club will get a certain amount of passes for that situation. Depending on how many shooters they have.
> 
> OR they can shoot one arrow at each qualifier and automatically get in by attending 2 qualifiers.


So many rules!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't we all just shoot and get along!!!!


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Bo Bob said:


> Here's a question.
> 
> Guys own range and have 2 qualifers. Because they are working the shoot they don't get to shoot the qualifer.
> 
> If they don't shoot another qualifer are they able to shoot in the state shoot and a bonafied shooter?


Each club gets 1 exemption for every 25 shooters. ASA understands that the host clubs typically are full of ASA members and that in order to run the shoot properly, some members may not be able to shoot. That's where these exemptions come in.

1-25 shooters=1 exemption
26-50 shooters=2 exemptions
51-75 shooters=3 exemptions

and so on. Now these need to be shooters registered for the ASA Qualifier. Our club usually runs a regular shoot concurrently with our ASA Qualifier. Shooters who show up and do NOT shoot the Qualifier are not included in the count for exemptions.

These workers need to be added to the list of Qualified shooters by the club Secretary when he/she fills out the paperwork to be sent in to ASA.


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## harris6048 (Nov 18, 2008)

It makes no sense to eliminate anyone from the shoot from a shooters point of view. The pay out is direct proporation to the number of shooters.
If someone dosen't shoot well enough to be in the top percentage of the qualifer they arent likely to take a belt buckle or money in the State Tournament. No shooter should be afraid to compete and none should be excluded. ASA tries to make the rules liberal enough that no one is.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

XForce Girl said:


> I really do see your point. I have not had to tell anyone they could not compete so if it came down to it, I would not want to do it either. I would want everyone in my state to be able to compete.


Our Qualifier had 66 shooters that qualified for the ASA State Championship in 15 different classes. Our largest classes were Open C (14 shooters) and Bow Novice (11 shooters). Somewhere between 8-12 of these shooters signed up for ASA at the shoot. I didn't have to do the paperwork this year so I had to go back and look at the names of those that qualified. At least 8 of them are new to ASA and there were 4 more I wasn't sure of. I think overall there are 180ish shooters qualified Statewide.

As Crooks said, our State Championship is growing. Our club purchased the Augusta A Range to complete our set of McKenzies to be used. We are going to have 2 fifteen target ranges set just like the book says, half unknown and half known. We have a few vendors that are planning on coming out and setting up to show off their wares and we are trying to create a similar atmosphere to a Pro/Am event. Make this a shoot that everyone wants to attend. If we get to a point that we can't handle all the folks that want to come, well then I guess we'll burn that bridge when we get to it.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Bo Bob said:


> Here's a question.
> Guys own range and have 2 qualifers. Because they are working the shoot they don't get to shoot the qualifer.
> If they don't shoot another qualifer are they able to shoot in the state shoot and a bonafied shooter?


Already mentioned was the exemptions, but there is another way. Those putting on the shoot can shoot and remain quite honest by shooting the Known distance class. You could qualify for the State Championship and then shoot in your normal class for the Championship... Well, if you're not hosting the state Championship. That is my position this year, hosting both a Qualifier and State Championship.


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