# Big guy, first bow. Thinking ILF, best bang for buck(not the deer kind)?



## osageghost (Jun 16, 2005)

Look in the traditional classifieds on this site, look for this-TradTech Titan Take-Down Bow w/Lots of Extras-the riser,35# limbs and two strings for $500, an excellent bow, (and you probably will never have to or need to upgrade with this rig) or for a little less money their is a hoyt excel riser for $165 and the same person i believe has either 35 and 40 pound limbs for 120 and 140 dollars, although the ad states that with some limbs on that riser you may need limb shims which hoyt sells for that reason, good luck with your traditional journey


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## stew (Jun 15, 2005)

Keep with a 64" or 66" recurve. But, at a 30 inch draw you will need to find a 38 pound at 28" bow. The draw weight will increase 2 then 3 then 3 1/2 pounds for each inch drawn over 28. You can find bows here or the classifieds on Stickbow.com as well. With a 30 or 31 inch draw, a 45 pound bow will kill just about everything in the lower 48. If you choose to hunt. Also, you will need a full length arrow because of your draw. Carbons are spined for compounds NOT trad gear. Even if they say traditional arrows. If your drawing 31" and 45 pounds, go with 35/55 with a 125 grain point. I prefer the Heritage for its durability. So 150's with a 125 point. good luck to you.


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## 4 Fletch (Jan 25, 2014)

First thing to buy is a copy of _Shooting the Stickbow_ http://shootingthestickbow.com/

FWIW my wingspan is 75+" and my compound DL is now 30". I increased it a year ago, after shooting for one year, and doing some exercises that strengthened my rhomboids. And now I'm wondering if my beautiful longbow is too short at 60". My 64-inch recurve doesn't pose a problem. 

Anyway, for now stick w lower poundages, ask around, find a local range w folks who welcome new archers, and welcome to AT. :wave3:


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

second on shooting the stickbow...

I'd lean towards cheap ILF riser, 21-25" with long limbs. Lots of flexibility for figuring out what you really, really want, because of course, it never ends


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

My son is your height and I got him an excel at 25 inches. His draw was 32 and anything less tended to stack in the budget limb category so long limbs are also called for. The titan is good and I have the III model but it might be too short at 64 amo for your height. With limbs you'll want to keep in mind that at your draw length, which you should get accurately measured "BEFORE" buying a bow, will add about 3 pounds per inch beyond 28 inches of draw. If your draw length turns out to be 31 that's 3 inches and somewhere around 8 or 9 pounds of additional weight beyond what's marked.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

BarneySlayer said:


> second on shooting the stickbow...
> 
> I'd lean towards cheap ILF riser, 21-25" with long limbs. Lots of flexibility for figuring out what you really, really want, because of course, it never ends


This^^


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I am 6'4" like you and have a 32 inch draw. I also started with a shorter draw but increased by 1 1/2 inches when I learned to fully expand. For what you are looking for, I believe a 25 inch riser with long limbs will be best. You are not looking to hunt so a short bow is not necessary and will be more difficult to shoot, and stack more. The stacking will contribute to more wear and tear on your worn out parts. I have worn out parts too and am careful to make sure that I can shoot well into retirement. Longer bows are much easier to learn on since the more obtuse string angle makes it easier to get a clean release. There just is not much of an upside for short bows unless you are shooting out of confined spaces or tromping through the brush. I would definitely stay away from the Samick Sage, it is way too short for long draws. Even when I get down to 66 inches I feel like I am hitting a wall compared to my 70 inch bows. Remember that your bow will pick up a lot of weight. My bows in the 36 pound range give me from about 43 to 44 pounds at 32 inches, 39 to 40 at 30 inches, for a conventional shaped recurve. Bows pick up different amounts of weight when drawn beyond the marked weight at 28 inches. Obviously, it depends on the weight of the bow; it also depends on the length. The numbers I provided came from my database of measurements. I have many more bow measurement, but these were close to the bow weight you mentioned. You also have to account for the fact that the weight for an ILF bow depends on how the bow is setup. Many of my bows are set up below the marked weight at 28 inches. So you need to figure out what weight you want to pull at your draw length, or some future draw length allowing for an increase as your form develops. Then it will be easier to estimate the weight of the bow that you need.


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

You can find ILF risers up to 25". With long recurve limbs, that will make a 70" bow. Even if you go with a shorter riser, still stay with a long or extra-long limb length. Smoothness comes from the limbs.


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## Mr. Ninja (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks for the replies thus far!

Sounds as if the ILF w/ long limbs seems to be the way to go. I've seen a few 66"+ recurve one piece bows around, and for fairly cheap(on ebay/craigslist). Mostly older Ben Pearson, Wing archery or Hoyt wooden bows considered "vintage". Given the low initial cost to get into one, that is tempting, however the flexibility of being able to have a platform that I can change limbs/etc on is appealing. 

I'm really trying to keep the initial bow purchase under 200, but it really doesn't seem like that's going to happen. However, I saw a few PSE bows that seem to match what I'm looking for on ebay, but I don't know if these are a proprietary limb mount system, or just plain cheap crap and not worth my time (they are certainly pretty cheap). Some of the models were the PSE Optima, PSE Razorback (its called a "youth XL" model, but it says its 66" at 30#, is there something specific that dictates a "youth" bow?), PSE War Eagle, Samick Polaris 66", a few Hoyt Pro medalists get down into a decent price range too...

Any thoughts on any of the above mentioned systems? Or the best way to "value engineer" myself into a decent bow without shooting myself in the foot down the road? (both figuratively and literally) Will I hate a 1 pc bow? Having a takedown/ILF type system seems convenient for storage and transport, but is there a bunch of "configuring" that needs to be done every time you put a bow back together, which would make breaking it down whenever I go somewhere less likely to happen.

Thanks again for the replies!


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

Ninja, all good questions, and it can get confusing with all the many viable options. Let me add my 2-cents worth. First I echo the recommendations of the other posters regarding getting Anthony Camera's Shooting the Stickbow. At $20.00 it'll be one of the best investments a new archer interested in longbows and/or recurve archery can make. I also agree with the other posters that, given your height and potential draw length, a 25-inch ILF riser and long limbs will work best. That will make your bow 70-inches. I'm 5-9 and shoot with a 25-inch riser with medium limbs, making my bow 68-inches. The one advantage of going with an ILF rig is that you can start off relatively inexpensively and then get more advanced components as you improve. Also, you can start off shooting bare bow with few accessories, and then add more components if you decide to switch to Olympic style shooting. I would also invite you to peruse the website of Lancaster Archery Supply. They are one of the largest online retailers of all things archery. Look at the many different risers and limbs and you can see what's available at any given price point. In terms of your budget, we can get close to the $200.00 figure. Take a look at the Cartel Fantom riser ($130 from LAS), coupled with the SF Axiom + limbs (long, $80.00). Add a good string (about $25), and a Hoyt Super arrow rest ($2.50) and you're good to go for under $250. I shoot with the Fantom and can vouche for its qualities. BTW, LAS has great customer service, so call them before you purchase and they can help you make some good choices. Good luck, and let us know what you choose. Regards, LT


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## Nick1959 (Apr 30, 2003)

New to archery I would not be looking at 30+ lb limbs putting you at 35 or so on your fingers.
Don't want to get frustrated with the whole thing and give it up.
Start with light limbs to work on form.

My $.02


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## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Look for a riser that has a grip and balance that you like. I started with a TradTech 19" wood riser but progressed to a 19" metal and now to a 17" metal Titan II. I did so because of the grip and balance. My point is that if I had taken more time and shot more bows, I might have been able to go with to the Titan II from the start.
Buying used can save you some money, but only if you get what you wanted. If you want "A" but settle for "B" because it is $100 cheaper used, you likely will not be happy with it.
Noting wrong with buying used and then selling it if you find it doesn't fit your needs or taste. If you buy used to start with, you don't lose much selling it later.

Take some time and visit traditional bow shops or bowyers near you. Don't just go to a local shop that sells a few recurves. Likely, he won't know more than you do.
Check around for some traditional shoots or clubs that might have some traditional shooters that you can visit.

X2 on Lancaster Archery. I am pretty close, but you can call and ask to talk to one of the traditional shooters. They sell a bunch of Samick Sage and Journey bows. The Journey is the 64" version of the Sage. I shoot with several guys that shoot these bows. They run about $150 new and $110 used. A 35# Journey would likely work well for you.
The Samick bows are a better shooter than their price might indicate.

Classifieds on here are a good place to start. I tend to stay away from Ebay and older bows as the chances of a bent limb are much greater there.


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## ismo131 (Nov 19, 2014)

I have never ewer seen second hand bow that fits for tool guy. And one after another they are trying to sell samick or some other that don't fit for 32" draw.


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

The ILF system is probably your best _value_. With one riser, you can have several sets of limbs to cover every thing from form building, target and field shooting, to 3D and hunting. ILF also retains the highest resale value. I have see $1000 custom bows, up for sale at $500 , and not moving. You see a pair of $200 (new) limbs listed for $150 , and they are gone before you can think about it. And if you are buying used, you can resell with minimal loss. 
For $150 you can get started in ILF :
riser: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-prostyle-24-recurve-riser.html
limbs: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-axiom-plus-recurve-limbs-27800.html
You can also spent $1000, It is very much like golf clubs!
If you decide on the e-Bay, vintage route, make sure to do your home work, and ask questions before you bid!
The PSE type bows , while i'm not going to say they are "crap", because they do have a place, are not something you are going to be happy with, and as you say, not worth wasting your time on.


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

Ninja, just a bit more follow-up. The Axiom Plus limbs that gnome linked to are the same ones I mentioned in my earlier e-mail. Most would agree that they are great limbs for the price. However, they will not fit the Prostyle riser that gnome mentioned. From what I can tell that riser uses bolts to secure the limbs and accept only Prostyle limbs. BTW, to answer your earlier question, the ILF allows for easy set-up. You just snap the limbs into the limb pockets on the riser. They are held loosely in place, and then when the string is attached, everything is held in place by the tension of the string. Its really that simple. LT


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

larry tom said:


> Ninja, just a bit more follow-up. The Axiom Plus limbs that gnome linked to are the same ones I mentioned in my earlier e-mail. Most would agree that they are great limbs for the price. However, they will not fit the Prostyle riser that gnome mentioned. From what I can tell that riser uses bolts to secure the limbs and accept only Prostyle limbs. BTW, to answer your earlier question, the ILF allows for easy set-up. You just snap the limbs into the limb pockets on the riser. They are held loosely in place, and then when the string is attached, everything is held in place by the tension of the string. Its really that simple. LT


Sorry about that, should have looked closer, Thank you for that catch.


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

Here is the correct link for the Sebastian Flute Axiom riser.
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-axiom-recurve-riser.html


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

I think LAS still has some Samick Avante 25" risers on sale at $129.99
Just add a set of Axioms and a string and you have a pretty nice bow.

Edit: Just checked Lancaster Archery. They upped the price to $149. Not as good a deal as it once was.


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## Nicholas Sexton (Dec 2, 2014)

I don't know much about ILF but if you would consider a longbow the Samick SLB ($210) from lancaster archery supply is good up to my 31 inch draw. I'm 6'4", 76" wingspan, and stout but started with a 55# and couldn't proper form until about a year later. So you would probably be good starting with no more than 35-40#. And like Hank said, make sure to get full length shafts for your arrows because your draw will probably lengthen over time.


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## cubefx (May 8, 2012)

IMHO best low cost ILF rig is Hoyt Excel (21" or 23") paired with Black Max limbs. It is a lot of bow for under $350.


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## cubefx (May 8, 2012)

BTW there is Excel riser in classifieds right now for $140. Not affiliated.


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## Mr. Ninja (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks again for all of the info everyone! I really appreciate it. At this point I'll be on the hunt for any used deals (checking out the ones mentioned in the classifieds). Is there anything that I'm going to gain (or notice) right off the bat, going with a more expensive (but likely used) riser? I suspect I will end up getting antsy and grabbing those Axioms from LAS, and either the riser from them, or perhaps one of the used ones if that seems like a way better option...(looks like that excel riser is a 21", is that going to be too short?)

I had considered the long bow thing initially, but from what I hear they may not be the best choice for beginners. Plus I'm pretty sold on the adjustability/etc with the ILF.

So, now some things I hadn't given much thought to, the meat and potatoes: string? is there a certain length for certain length bows? something about different strand counts? what's with all the different things I see attached to them? I remember back in the day the bows had little beads or something to know where to nock the arrow, is that a thing? Does it come with the string? Are there strings that are a "no no" or could end in a less than par result?

arrows: Length? I heard full size, but is that all I need to know? Seems like there is a difference between compound and regular arrows, something about a spine? I'm sure a bit of the options are going to end up being personal preference, like fletching type, maybe tips too?

any other must haves right off the bat? perhaps some fancy gloves? I intend to purchase that book and do some reading. I seem to recall having shot in the past with 2 or 3 fingers to draw... I'm looking around for either a class or something to perhaps get some initial pointers, but seem to have trouble finding someone in my area. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place... anyone in WA want to show me the ropes? 

Thanks again, this has been very informative thus far, I really appreciate it!


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## ismo131 (Nov 19, 2014)

There are not many arrows to chose from. I don't know any 33" carbon. Easton have aluminium x7 exlipce that is long enaf, if your drowleight is 32 ( arrow then 33"). But if your drawlwnght is 31" or under ( arrow 31"), then Carbon world will open to you. If you chose 40# bow to your drowleight alu arrow spine that you need is somewhere 2213. Lower spines will be 32,5". So there is issues for long guy to chose right #bow and mattching arrows.
And don't order 2214 arrows, they have no insert to sqruw on points. They are pure targerarrows


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

Mr. Ninja said:


> Thanks again for all of the info everyone! I really appreciate it. At this point I'll be on the hunt for any used deals (checking out the ones mentioned in the classifieds). Is there anything that I'm going to gain (or notice) right off the bat, going with a more expensive (but likely used) riser? I suspect I will end up getting antsy and grabbing those Axioms from LAS, and either the riser from them, or perhaps one of the used ones if that seems like a way better option...(looks like that excel riser is a 21", is that going to be too short?)
> 
> I had considered the long bow thing initially, but from what I hear they may not be the best choice for beginners. Plus I'm pretty sold on the adjustability/etc with the ILF.
> 
> ...


From the feeling that I am getting from your questions, BUY and READ , Vipers book, Shooting the Stickbow, BEFORE you do anything else!
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shooting-the-stickbow-book-2nd-edition-by-anthony-camera.html
I have had a copy for many years, and still go back to it when ever something isn't working right. All I can say is there is a reason everybody gives the same advise to get it!
Every point you have asked about is in there.


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## Zurf (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm just a skootch smaller than you. My goals are the same as yours. First thing is that lighter is better. I don't care if you can lift a horse, you should learn with a relatively light bow. After having the same set up recommended by two people, then shooting it and liking it, I suggest 25" SF Axiom+ riser and long SF Axiom+ 36# (or lighter) limbs. I had been using a 45# Ben Peason Cougar, which is I think a 62" bow, so going to the 36# 68" bow was a lot easier to pull with a much smoother draw. 

This bow fires arrows that will stick any target close enough for me to hit it. It is a better bow than I am archer. The whole set up was in the $200 range.


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## Mr. Ninja (Feb 3, 2015)

That setup sounds almost exactly what I'm looking to get. I am pretty sure I'm going to go for 30# limbs, no higher than 35#. Once I get a handle on things, and if I feel I can go heavier, I will...

Book is purchased and on the way. I'm sure it will answer a heap of questions I have and haven't thought of. Still trying to glean as much info from this forum as possible in case a good deal comes up, I can jump on it and be more confident in my decisions.

I appreciate all the info thus far.

Seems like the majority of the more inexpensive arrow packs that are 33" or so are made of fiberglass. As I'm expecting I'll be losing and/or breaking a fair amount of arrows initially, the lower cost appeals to me, but I expect I'll invest in "better" arrows down the road once their enhanced properties would actually be noticed by me.

In the meantime, I'll exercise some patience to see if any good used deals come up, but I think the antsy desire to get behind a bow may land me as an LAS customer shortly, for at least a riser/limbs/string... the other accessories will probably come with time and understanding of what they'll do for me.

Thanks again, and if there is any more info/opinion/etc out there, I'm certainly willing to listen to it.


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

Besides "You", the most important part of the equation, is the arrow, it is one area were "going cheap" does not pay. Call LAS, ask for John Wert, tell him your bow specs, and follow his suggestions for arrows. Fiberglass arrows are usually reserved for kids, or summer camp use. Aluminum arrows are going to be a betters choice in the long run.


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## ismo131 (Nov 19, 2014)

Big guy arrows don't come cheap. There is that 1 and best easton x7 exlipse. Is there been talking about the fact that in your draw 30# is more likely to be somewhere 39-42#


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## scriv (Jan 31, 2008)

Lot's of good advice here. Sounds like you and I are nearly twins. Keep the poundage low (30-35) in the beginning. It will help you expand as your form develops. First thing I would do is determine if you are left, or right eye dominant. Sucks to find out a year into it that your not seeing out of the eye you thought you were, and then have to start over. This is the first step I take with my students. If you are right handed for example, and find out that you're left eye dominant I would go even lower with the poundage to start out Good luck


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## ismo131 (Nov 19, 2014)

Now Easton have new carbon arrow with 32,5" 300 spine and realtree camo. Thats Axis realtree


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