# Victory 3DHV?



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

So I know arrows are discussed often and there are several posts about them but to be transparent I need post count and at this point almost everything has been discussed.

I am building a set of 3DHV for this coming season. I am out west and I felt as though the low weight would be great for velocity and the smaller diameter will be great for the windy conditions out here. I will be running 400 spine cut to 27.5 inch, 120gr points and pin nocks. I went with the TAC Driver 2.75” 3 fletch with a 1.5 degree left offset. They ended up 311.6gr each and I am running 57.8# draw weight at 28.5 inches.
Anyone have experience with the 3DHV? If so/not what are you using that you currently like for unknown open class?


----------



## cjhd00 (Sep 25, 2010)

I use the rip hv to hunt with and have no problems. Pretty sure it's the same arrow. I think they would be fine for 3d. I'm shooting shooting the 350s with 160 grains up front at #62. I thought about setting up a set for 3d but I'm going to shoot the v-tac 23.


----------



## Thestudent (Nov 8, 2018)

I've shot them for several years with no issues and yes the rip xv is the exact same arrow. I'm shooting the 400's @ 29.5" long with the standard 120g victory points and a aae max 23 4 fletch. works out to be 335g if I remember correctly. I did find the f nock bushings to be less than desirable so in the trash they went and I got some a nocks instead


----------



## NockTuner77 (Feb 7, 2021)

I recently built 6 of em to try and get a faster arrow for unknown….even though they are 40g lighter than my current Black Eagle Carnivores, they don’t seem to group as well as the BEs. They are fast as hell and seem durable. I also trashed the nock inserts and went with Beiter#2 .204 for nocks. Good luck!


----------



## southgaboy (Jan 28, 2007)

Interested to see how they shot for you. I'm looking for a small diameter arrow for this yrs Senior Games and a couple field tournaments and what you built would spec out just right for me.


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

So far so good. At 57# and 28.5” they’re moving at 293 fps. I’m going out to the club today to use the practice range to double check the sight tape and then shoot the 3D course. I’ll let you know how they fly at distance.


----------



## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

Superb arrows. Mine produced among the best downrange groups I have ever had from my 3D bow. They’re way better in the wind than 22 or 23 series arrows and because they’re so light you can get the speed you want at almost any poundage.

I think you’re way over fletched tho. i don’t think they need anything more than a regular 2” fairly low profile target vane, like the AAE max 2.0 or similar. This would reduce wind drift and drag (that will show itself on a longer sight tape). Bonging air vanes, gas pro 20mm shield cut etc. are all good options for this slim and light arrow. I shoot 350s cut to 29.5” with 110gr or 120gr points at 300fps and they group on top of each other at 60 yards of I do my part. At longer distances when there is even the slightest wind is where you will see these arrows stand apart from the 23 series. They also fly flatter at a given speed due to less drag, so a 320gr 3dhv will fly flatter than a 320gr V-TAC 23, for example. Like I say, I’d change the vanes personally.


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

ukxbow said:


> Superb arrows. Mine produced among the best downrange groups I have ever had from my 3D bow. They’re way better in the wind than 22 or 23 series arrows and because they’re so light you can get the speed you want at almost any poundage.
> 
> I think you’re way over fletched tho. i don’t think they need anything more than a regular 2” fairly low profile target vane, like the AAE max 2.0 or similar. This would reduce wind drift and drag (that will show itself on a longer sight tape). Bonging air vanes, gas pro 20mm shield cut etc. are all good options for this slim and light arrow. I shoot 350s cut to 29.5” with 110gr or 120gr points at 300fps and they group on top of each other at 60 yards of I do my part. At longer distances when there is even the slightest wind is where you will see these arrows stand apart from the 23 series. They also fly flatter at a given speed due to less drag, so a 320gr 3dhv will fly flatter than a 320gr V-TAC 23, for example. Like I say, I’d change the vanes personally.


Thank you for the advice! I believe I’ll try the same vanes (Tac Driver) in a 2” instead of the 2.75” I’ve got on them now.


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

southgaboy said:


> Interested to see how they shot for you. I'm looking for a small diameter arrow for this yrs Senior Games and a couple field tournaments and what you built would spec out just right for me.


So I’m happy to report we hit the 3D course today… spent a bit of time getting the right sight tape on and my god these things are laser beams. I had a 50 cent piece sized group at 100 yards. I ended up with 13/20 bonus rings. The only 8’s and 10’s were human error in execution or judgement. I’m confident I caught several 12 rings with inaccurate judgement as well. They performed INCREDIBLY well in the wind as well.


----------



## southgaboy (Jan 28, 2007)

240gtr said:


> So I’m happy to report we hit the 3D course today… spent a bit of time getting the right sight tape on and my god these things are laser beams. I had a 50 cent piece sized group at 100 yards. I ended up with 13/20 bonus rings. The only 8’s and 10’s were human error in execution or judgement. I’m confident I caught several 12 rings with inaccurate judgement as well. They performed INCREDIBLY well in the wind as well.
> View attachment 7526678
> 
> View attachment 7526677


Sounds good, let us know how durable they are, 900 rounds are tough on arrows when you have 24 arrows in the gold.


----------



## hamiltonmatt00 (Aug 2, 2020)

ukxbow said:


> Superb arrows. Mine produced among the best downrange groups I have ever had from my 3D bow. They’re way better in the wind than 22 or 23 series arrows and because they’re so light you can get the speed you want at almost any poundage.
> 
> I think you’re way over fletched tho. i don’t think they need anything more than a regular 2” fairly low profile target vane, like the AAE max 2.0 or similar. This would reduce wind drift and drag (that will show itself on a longer sight tape). Bonging air vanes, gas pro 20mm shield cut etc. are all good options for this slim and light arrow. I shoot 350s cut to 29.5” with 110gr or 120gr points at 300fps and they group on top of each other at 60 yards of I do my part. At longer distances when there is even the slightest wind is where you will see these arrows stand apart from the 23 series. They also fly flatter at a given speed due to less drag, so a 320gr 3dhv will fly flatter than a 320gr V-TAC 23, for example. Like I say, I’d change the vanes personally.


 I am building a set of 3DHV's right now, I'm thinking of 2.1 fusion x vanes... Whatcha think?


----------



## NockTuner77 (Feb 7, 2021)

I shot this bareshaft group from 40yds today with my half dozen 500 spine 3DHV today….tightest bareshaft group I have ever shot from that distance….nasty little darts😈….looking forward to this year’s unknown 3D. Merry Xmas to all!


----------



## NockTuner77 (Feb 7, 2021)

NockTuner77 said:


> I shot this bareshaft group from 40yds today with my half dozen 500 spine 3DHV today….tightest bareshaft group I have ever shot from that distance….nasty little darts😈….looking forward to this year’s unknown 3D. Merry Xmas to all!


Too much punch🤪….here’s the pic


----------



## trucker3573 (Feb 14, 2010)

Victory HV arrows are the one arrow I wouldn’t shoot if I was paid too. Maybe things have changed as my experience goes back probably 10-12 years but the were brittle as icicles. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

trucker3573 said:


> Victory HV arrows are the one arrow I wouldn’t shoot if I was paid too. Maybe things have changed as my experience goes back probably 10-12 years but the were brittle as icicles.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They’re pretty sturdy in my experience thus far. Shot one of my wife’s arrows with my 3DHV and it was perfectly fine.


----------



## NockTuner77 (Feb 7, 2021)

I will put em to the test at a 22yds max indoor 3D event on Jan 7th and report😈


----------



## trucker3573 (Feb 14, 2010)

All I can say is flex them after every shot. I had two during a warm up session snap in two after I pulled them out of the target. They hadn’t touched a thing. I will say if memory serves me correct these were the small diameter hv arrows. I never had the fat hv shafts break. The 3d version is the fat shaft??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## supra56 (Jan 14, 2018)

If you want one of the toughest arrows made shoot the TKO's. These are my hunting arrows, but I am getting the 3dhv for shooting 3-D even though the TKO's are no slouch in the 3-D dept. either.


----------



## Commfishmtk (Oct 11, 2013)

I was just looking at these arrows to build a dozen or so for shooting over the summer. Glad I came across your post.


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

supra56 said:


> If you want one of the toughest arrows made shoot the TKO's. These are my hunting arrows, but I am getting the 3dhv for shooting 3-D even though the TKO's are no slouch in the 3-D dept. either.


I have a dozen TKOs as well. Super tough arrows as you said. They’re definitely accurate as well but for 3D in particular those 3DHVs have such a flat trajectory and crazy speed. My VAP TKOs run 284 fps and my 3DHVs are moving at 317 fps.


----------



## mitja_bonca (Oct 24, 2021)

Im also building this arrow, so have few questions.
1. What should be the lenght of the shaft over the rest? Usually its around 1inch for hunting arrows. So whats the case here?
2. How many fletches do you guys have on this arrow, 3 or 4?
3. And how important is the FOC for this arrow? Should be kept as close to the front as possible?


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

mitja_bonca said:


> Im also building this arrow, so have few questions.
> 1. What should be the lenght of the shaft over the rest? Usually its around 1inch for hunting arrows. So whats the case here?
> 2. How many fletches do you guys have on this arrow, 3 or 4?
> 3. And how important is the FOC for this arrow? Should be kept as close to the front as possible?


Length of shaft is personal preference. Shorter the shaft the stiffer the effective spine. 
I shoot 3D out west and TAC currently so I like an arrow that can maintain speed fairly well so I’m a bit deep on the FOC. FOC is mainly to maintain kinetic energy in hunting applications and also work in conjunction with your fletching size/length to prevent knuckle balling effects. 
It’s a very light high velocity arrow. I run 3 fletch currently.

When I build a high velocity 3D arrow I’m more focused on overall weight for speed. My current arrows are 324 grain total, I’m shooting 59# @ 29 and 3/8” draw and they are flying at 300 fps.


----------



## mitja_bonca (Oct 24, 2021)

Thanks for great answers @240gtr.
Have you ever tried hunting with this arrow? I think it should be a problem, just maybe going with 4 fletches. As I read the shaft is exactly the same as RIP XV..
Would you also consider using an insert after the broadhead, to put a bit of a weight up infront for an arrow having some more kinetic energy at the impact?


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

mitja_bonca said:


> Thanks for great answers @240gtr.
> Have you ever tried hunting with this arrow? I think it should be a problem, just maybe going with 4 fletches. As I read the shaft is exactly the same as RIP XV..
> Would you also consider using an insert after the broadhead, to put a bit of a weight up infront for an arrow having some more kinetic energy at the impact?


I personally use VAP TKO for hunting arrows. They’re the same price as the 3DHV/RIPHV and a lot tougher. 

For the VAPs I shoot a true Helical aae max 3 fletch and high FOC with 50 grain brass inserts and 125 grain schwacker broadheads. These come in right at 448 grains and the rest does not need to be moved to shoot these. 

For a sight I have an Axcel Landslyde Carbon pro with an Ultraview UV3 scope. I have a 2 pin hunting cartridge and a metal sight tape for the TKOs for hunting. During target season I stick my #12 sight tape over my metal #25 sight tape for the 3DHV and pop in my 4x target lens cartridge into the UV3. 

The reason I prefer the VAP TKO for hunting is they are a MUCH tougher arrow with better kinetic energy and thus penetration. After a pass through on an animal they can even bounce off of a rock or two and still be good to fly again. I get 274 fps from the TKOs. 

Hope this helps! If you like the idea of a light arrow for hunting the RIPHV/3DHV are more than capable but mathematically speaking there are better choices for cleaner and more consistent kills.


----------



## mitja_bonca (Oct 24, 2021)

Thanks a lot for your extended answer  I know VAP TKO surely suits better how hunting, specially because of its regidity, but I might give it a try with 3dhv as well this winter.


----------



## mitja_bonca (Oct 24, 2021)

I bought 1,75" vanes and will put 3 on each - for target/3d shooting. Still waiting shafts to arrive


----------



## The SB Image (Feb 21, 2021)

240gtr said:


> Length of shaft is personal preference. Shorter the shaft the stiffer the effective spine.
> I shoot 3D out west and TAC currently so I like an arrow that can maintain speed fairly well so I’m a bit deep on the FOC. FOC is mainly to maintain kinetic energy in hunting applications and also work in conjunction with your fletching size/length to prevent knuckle balling effects.
> It’s a very light high velocity arrow. I run 3 fletch currently.
> 
> When I build a high velocity 3D arrow I’m more focused on overall weight for speed. My current arrows are 324 grain total, I’m shooting 59# @ 29 and 3/8” draw and they are flying at 300 fps.


I ordered a dozen 3DHV's 350 shafts but only having used stock GoldTip Velocity 340's with 100 grain tips I am pretty inexperienced setting up arrows... hope you dont mind what are probably some stupid questions.

They will be for target and really enjoy shooting longer distance (2 TAC's and I was hooked) I have a public range with tons of room, local field target club, and will be doing 2 or 3 TACS this year. 

What do you mean by "I’m a bit deep on the FOC"? 
What is the "knuckle balling effects"

I used the Victory spine calculator and was surprised to see I could run from 100-150 grain point weight with a 62lbs bow, 30.5 inch draw, 350 spine 29.5 throat to end of carbon (could go shorter if needed) going to run 4 low profile AAE max 2.0 vanes.

The Victory break off points go from 120 right to 150, any reason to use one over the other? My Velocity 340 arrows at 8.2 gpi, 100 grain point, 12.1 grain insert and 2.75" 4 fletch got out to hair over 100 yards with a single pin sight, will be putting a multi pin scope on so I should be better for distance but not sure on 120 or 150 tips and seems like once they are in they are in. 

sorry for the long winded list of questions, I searched but tip weight, FOC, long range takes me to hunting threads and discussions on kinetic energy. I just want max distance but heavy enough to buck wind.


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

The SB Image said:


> I ordered a dozen 3DHV's 350 shafts but only having used stock GoldTip Velocity 340's with 100 grain tips I am pretty inexperienced setting up arrows... hope you dont mind what are probably some stupid questions.
> 
> They will be for target and really enjoy shooting longer distance (2 TAC's and I was hooked) I have a public range with tons of room, local field target club, and will be doing 2 or 3 TACS this year.
> 
> ...


Hey! Definitely not stupid questions. FOC is the weight balance point of the arrow and how front of center that is. When I say deep in FOC I mean they’re a bit front heavy. This MOSTLY matters on a hunting arrow where you want to carry as much kinetic energy as possible but can also help with long range shots in excess of 80 yards like we find at TAC. 
the knuckle balling effect occurs when your fletchings create too much drag for your setup and overcorrect your arrow flight causing the tip of the arrow to fly funky like a knuckleball would in baseball. 
the victory break offs start at 150 and can be broken down from 150 to 120, 100 and 80 grains. 
I went with 2.75” vanes so I stuck with 120 grains up front to help prevent this effect by keeping more weight up front to counteract a larger fletching. I built mine like this because the larger vane corrects flight quickly for accuracy at closer ranges and the higher FOC keeps them flying true (I’ve put these to the test all the way to 136 yards)

I am shooting 400 spine which is perfect for them being cut to 28” and shooting 60lbs. The 400 spine shaft run only 5.9 grains per inch which keeps my entire arrow at 322 grains and over 300 feet per second allowing me to stretch a sight tape to 140+ yards before running out of clearance.

if you wish to share your draw length and draw weight I’d be happy to do some math and recommend a build for your 350s.
Cheers.


----------



## The SB Image (Feb 21, 2021)

240gtr said:


> if you wish to share your draw length and draw weight I’d be happy to do some math and recommend a build for your 350s.


thank you, seems like a large gap from 120-150 grains with the victory points but maybe I am over thinking it. 
62lbs bow, 30.5 inch draw and my arrows are typically cut in the 29 1/4 - 29 1/2 range. 

What got me thinking about lighter arrows with a bit more tip weight was using my new 3d set up at long range for fun.... best 65 and 80 yards groups I ever shot by a pretty decent margin.


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

The SB Image said:


> thank you, seems like a large gap from 120-150 grains with the victory points but maybe I am over thinking it.
> 62lbs bow, 30.5 inch draw and my arrows are typically cut in the 29 1/4 - 29 1/2 range.
> 
> What got me thinking about lighter arrows with a bit more tip weight was using my new 3d set up at long range for fun.... best 65 and 80 yards groups I ever shot by a pretty decent margin.


So with your pull weight and draw length I’d recommend either 120 or even 100 grain. The reason I say this is a longer shaft length effectively weakens spine as does increased FOC. 29.5” shaft, 100 grain up front, pin nocks and 2” low profile tac driver or aae hybrid or similar vanes would serve beautifully and you’d come in right at 330 grains per shaft. At 62# depending on your bow I’d say you’d be in 300-310fps territory. Alternatively you can stick with 120 grains up front with a bit more fletching. 2.25 would be ideal but no more than 2.75 with a low profile. That build would come in right around 355 grains and should fly around 285-295 fps.
I say go with 100 grain with the smaller vanes and bareshaft tune them first.


----------



## The SB Image (Feb 21, 2021)

240gtr said:


> So with your pull weight and draw length I’d recommend either 120 or even 100 grain. The reason I say this is a longer shaft length effectively weakens spine as does increased FOC. 29.5” shaft, 100 grain up front, pin nocks and 2” low profile tac driver or aae hybrid or similar vanes would serve beautifully and you’d come in right at 330 grains per shaft. At 62# depending on your bow I’d say you’d be in 300-310fps territory. Alternatively you can stick with 120 grains up front with a bit more fletching. 2.25 would be ideal but no more than 2.75 with a low profile. That build would come in right around 355 grains and should fly around 285-295 fps.
> I say go with 100 grain with the smaller vanes and bareshaft tune them first.


That seems more what I expected I was originally thinking 130 grain tip....a little more weight to buck the wind but a fair amount lighter than my gold tips.... going to try the AAE vanes I have in 3 and 4 fletch (2" long but low profile .38) seems weird the Victory Spine calculator says 350 spine/29.5" all the way up to 175 grain tip with my component weight. Can I use hot melt on the tips for testing? seems like it would be impossible to clean the glue out and put the point back in regardless and run the risk of having tip pull out in my target. 

One more silly question, spine calculators always ask for IBO.. why, when the manufactures IBO always seems way off most of the time? 

thanks for the help 
Ray


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

The SB Image said:


> That seems more what I expected I was originally thinking 130 grain tip....a little more weight to buck the wind but a fair amount lighter than my gold tips.... going to try the AAE vanes I have in 3 and 4 fletch (2" long but low profile .38) seems weird the Victory Spine calculator says 350 spine/29.5" all the way up to 175 grain tip with my component weight. Can I use hot melt on the tips for testing? seems like it would be impossible to clean the glue out and put the point back in regardless and run the risk of having tip pull out in my target.
> 
> One more silly question, spine calculators always ask for IBO.. why, when the manufactures IBO always seems way off most of the time?
> 
> ...


You can absolutely use hot melt on these.
Some manufacturers rate their IBO speed with nothing on the string at all. No peep, no d-loop etc. some flat out completely BS it _cough Bowtech SR350 cough_ aka the Slowtech SR320. Typically when we test a bows speed we have a whisker biscuit rest, a d-loop and sometimes a peep installed. The additional serving tied in and d-loop add 15-20 grains to the string, a peep is 15-35 depending on what you have and all of these items slow the bow down from initial testing. Not to mention not all chronographs are calibrated the same. IBO for spine calculation does give a good range of where the bow will be in terms of launch speed though. At your draw weight and length with a modern bow you could go with 400 or 350 spine. With 400s you could shoot a shorter arrow which would effectively stiffen the spine and lower point weight or 350s cut a bit longer with higher point weight and achieve effectively the same stiffness. So much tinkering can be done my friend!


----------



## The SB Image (Feb 21, 2021)

thank you again.. also re read you last post... somehow I missed the part about front of center increasing as the shaft gets longer. I should be able to get all tuned up and test a little next week, I have a shop with an indoor 30 yard range and can safely shoot 45 yards in my buddies warehouse.


----------



## The SB Image (Feb 21, 2021)

went with 120 grain tips, will probably test four more with a bit more weight up front out in the wind at 50/60 yards out of curiosity. Only got to do a quick eye ball set up with a couple fletched arrows shot through paper and some groups at 20 and 30 yards on mini Vegas spots. Only downside I can see so far is that the groups look farther apart with skinny arrows  and I don't really like the nocks, a pretty weak click onto the string and the string doesn't seem to spin perfectly free inside once nocked. (am sure it wont make a difference to my accuracy and its just a mental thing but I might try some other brand nocks)


----------



## 240gtr (Oct 29, 2021)

The SB Image said:


> went with 120 grain tips, will probably test four more with a bit more weight up front out in the wind at 50/60 yards out of curiosity. Only got to do a quick eye ball set up with a couple fletched arrows shot through paper and some groups at 20 and 30 yards on mini Vegas spots. Only downside I can see so far is that the groups look farther apart with skinny arrows  and I don't really like the nocks, a pretty weak click onto the string and the string doesn't seem to spin perfectly free inside once nocked. (am sure it wont make a difference to my accuracy and its just a mental thing but I might try some other brand nocks)
> 
> View attachment 7544989


Yeah the nocks are trash my friend. Go with a nice set of pin nocks.


----------



## Mr. Ken (Aug 6, 2019)

southgaboy said:


> Sounds good, let us know how durable they are, 900 rounds are tough on arrows when you have 24 arrows in the gold.


For Field and Senior Olympics, I am shooting the Gold Tip Pierce Tours in .400 spine. I have 6 Pierce Tours uncut, just put up if I need them. The Victory Vaps in .400 spine shoot good also.


----------



## NockTuner77 (Feb 7, 2021)

So I love these arrows….but they are lacking in durability compared to BE Carnivores….at $30 more per dozen shafts, I would like to not have to buy 4 more after first dozen only bought a couple months back. Had one snap off during pulling on a frigid 3D course last weekend(my friend may have heavy handed that one). I just had one break when it hit the top of the deer leg that sticks up into the foam, and another that snapped when it stuck into a stump during bareshaft tuning, found just the front half in the rotten stump….back half broke off when it impacted. But I did pull this off at 42 yds during a fletching test







and these were the high dollar Elite shafts, I can only imagine how fragile the cheaper ones are….I was able to shoot groups of bareshafts consistent with these arrows, I just can’t afford to keep buying shafts😂😂😈😈. Probability is that I will return to Black eagle and give up the 10fps that they got me


----------



## The SB Image (Feb 21, 2021)

"I can only imagine how fragile the cheaper ones are"

Elite, Sport, Gammer are all the exact same same arrow manufactured in the exact same place and way, goes for all brands/models (GoldTip XT vs Pro). The better ones and the "cheap" versions are the same arrow just that more expensive ones are culled/tested to a higher standard. 

I am sure it depends on the archers skill but I bought 4 Elite and 4 Sport and at my level I cant tell them apart, all group in one tight lump at 20-40 yards indoors and seem to do well at 70 outside when I do my part. (so windy lately I have only been able to "test" indoors and only a couple hours outside at 70) *I use most of the shaft with my 30.5" DL but if you are a normal DL you can pretty easily cut/keep the best part of an arrow getting the straightness of the high end selected models from the standard ones... not sure if its worth the time, I will end up with a bunch of arrows and will be practicing long shots for TAC events so the savings will add up so I am going with Sports from here on out.

I fully expected they would be a more fragile arrow than my 8.9gpi GoldTips at 6.4gpi just from having less material. Only shot them a few hundred times at my BullDog, Javelina, and BigShot cube but those are easy targets on arrows Im thinking the bags at the public range might give me grief with broken off arrows and broad heads stuck inside. So far so good, hope they hold up for me.... AND if they fail I would much rather have them detonate on impact vs finding out I got a crack when shooting them again :O (I do check them often)


----------



## NockTuner77 (Feb 7, 2021)

I stand corrected about my assumption about the cheaper ones😬. I was totally stoked to hear your reply about the sports….I am willing to put the time in on making a batch of them fly well… but I too have to use most of the shaft so it gives me confidence to try a batch👊.


----------



## The SB Image (Feb 21, 2021)

Wind died down pretty good today so tried some 100 yard shots... not good and shot one in the gap between the left side of the bag and the wood support, looks like it slapped the back end of the arrow against a the left 6x6 on its way past. Totally could just be me its been several months without shooting distance but it seems like I do better with these than my old arrows out to 50 or so but at 70 yards and up the groups really seem to open up on me. Going to try a bit more weight (130 and 140 grain TopHat glue in tips, well within the weight range for 350 spine) Just wondering if these light weight arrows really loose a bunch of velocity at 80 yards or so causing unpredictable groups. 

An inch and a half between these two pieces turned to chunks, my Gold Tip Hunters would possibly have cracked but its not a 100% certainty and for sure they would not have detonated this spectacularly  

I shot lots of groups at 20-30 yards slapping them together pretty often and they held up great, the nock collars have some marks but nocks are firm and straight, the smaller low pro vanes are not getting shot up as often as my old ones.


----------

