# Does the NFAA need a dress code for ALL of its shooters?



## Shrek XT3000

I would say that most people who shoot Redding don't belong to the NFAA. How would you enforce these rules.
Jeff


----------



## field14

Standard dress code. Announce it IN WRITING as part of the flyer. Simple process! Enforcement is EASY...if the dress-code rules are announced in advance and then ENFORCED regardless of who the people are. When you register the dress-code rules are right there...if you don't like 'em...then don't sign up.

People dont' need to dress like convicts, bums, or "country bumpkins" when attending archery events. It isn't like they are asking you to wear a tuxedo or coat and tie; only asking to dress decently and with good taste. 

We wonder why archery cannot get a TV following? Take a look sometimes at Vegas and National indoors at how people dress? I sure wouldn't want to be caught on camera looking like that and you can bet the TV moguls won't put that stuff on camera...other than maybe a "Wal-Martians" video or something!


----------



## FitaX10

I agree 100% Tom. I think it's a great idea. If they can (and do) it for a 3d what's the big deal about the NFAA.


----------



## field14

FitaX10 said:


> I agree 100% Tom. I think it's a great idea. If they can (and do) it for a 3d what's the big deal about the NFAA.


It has been argued over, almost literally fought over, and the NFAA still does NOT have a written dress-code with the exception of the NFAA Professionals, and they've had their share of problems with argumentative people and open defiance and "double dares" to get even that enforced.

Yet, on the other hand, the ASA obviously has a written dress-code, published and stated IN ADVANCE, and apparently will enforce it. The shooters know this, and those that don't like it, probably either knuckle under, or stay home and shoot in their back yards.

Guess what is needed once again is a well written standard dress code proposal/agenda item in an attempt to get it encoded in the Constitution and By-Laws...and not worry about the threat of lawsuits for "freedom of expressson" violations. The ASA has it...so again, like you say, why not the NFAA?

field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## ccwilder3

The dress code was aimed at women. They had to apply it to everyone for it to be fair. Before the dress code change, just about every large 3D shoot I attended had one or two females in various states of undress.

I have never seen that at a field shoot.


----------



## montigre

ccwilder3 said:


> I have never seen that at a field shoot.


I have...2009 NFAA Outdoor Nationals-- in a group was a young lady wearing a bare-midriff halter top with cut off denim shorts that allowed half of her butt cheeks to dangle in the open. Can we say Daisy Duke with a bad case of cellulite?? I personally felt it was very tasteless to show up to shoot a national competition in that manner of attire. Some guys are not much better in their ripped jeans riding 5" below their waists that give everyone a show when they bend over and tattered hunting logo t-shirts.... Seems like there is just no personal pride or pride in the sport...


----------



## archer_nm

Good luck with this one


----------



## ccwilder3

montigre said:


> I have...2009 NFAA Outdoor Nationals-- in a group was a young lady wearing a bare-midriff halter top with cut off denim shorts that allowed half of her butt cheeks to dangle in the open. Can we say Daisy Duke with a bad case of cellulite?? I personally felt it was very tasteless to show up to shoot a national competition in that manner of attire. *Some guys are not much better in their ripped jeans riding 5" below their waists that give everyone a show when they bend ove*r and tattered hunting logo t-shirts.... Seems like there is just no personal pride or pride in the sport...


That's just wrong on any level (except for a plumber).


----------



## montigre

archer_nm said:


> Good luck with this one


I realize there is a lot of opposition to having some form of dress code, but other sporting events have them and it has not negatively impacted any that I know of. When I showed horsed, it was in the Half-Arabian English Pleasure division and for that, we had to wear a 3 piece long-tailed suit with tie and derby; western pleasure classes had their own dress code, as did hunter/jumper and dressage. It was actually fun to try to coordinate your riding attire with the horses harnessing and meeting the required dress code was something everyone simply did without question. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/9378620451/ 

Many of the larger events were nationally televised, such as portions of the Scottsdale Arabian Horse Show or the jumper competitions, but this would not be so if everyone were able to wear whatever they had laying on the floor the night before in the competitions. The dress code and attire was a part of the competition and not a separate drudgery one had to undertake. It's not impossible to ask people to dress reasonably neatly at our events and provide some guidelines to those who may have questions as to what would be considered "neat".


----------



## ccwilder3

I would have no problem with a reasonable dress code as long as denim is allowed and no prohibition on camo.


----------



## field14

archer_nm said:


> Good luck with this one


Why? It is ridiculous that the NFAA will not come through with any sort of dress code (other than the one the PROS came up with), when the other associations have one and ENFORCE IT.
It is one thing to dress inappropriately or like a bum for a local shoot, but for a NATIONAL or INTERNATIONAL event, there danged well should be a code of dress written into the rules, everyone notified in advance about that dress code, and then ENFORCE it. If those that want to dress like bums don't like it...tough. Let them stay home.

There isn't a chance that any TV network is gonna put a tournament on TV when the dress of many of the people looks like something from the "Wal-Martian" photos that are send in e-mails, etc.

IF ASA can do it, and enforce it, then where the heck is the NFAA??? Behind again?

Tell the people what is expected of them, and nail the violators. They'll come around, or off the line they go.

Simple.

field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## field14

montigre said:


> I realize there is a lot of opposition to having some form of dress code, but other sporting events have them and it has not negatively impacted any that I know of. When I showed horsed, it was in the Half-Arabian English Pleasure division and for that, we had to wear a 3 piece long-tailed suit with tie and derby; western pleasure classes had their own dress code, as did hunter/jumper and dressage. It was actually fun to try to coordinate your riding attire with the horses harnessing and meeting the required dress code was something everyone simply did without question. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/9378620451/
> 
> Many of the larger events were nationally televised, such as portions of the Scottsdale Arabian Horse Show or the jumper competitions, but this would not be so if everyone were able to wear whatever they had laying on the floor the night before in the competitions. The dress code and attire was a part of the competition and not a separate drudgery one had to undertake. It's not impossible to ask people to dress reasonably neatly at our events and provide some guidelines to those who may have questions as to what would be considered "neat".


Same goes with GOLF, BOWLING, Dog Shows, and many other "minor sports". Overseas, there is a very STRICT dress code for archery tournaments, too. Even the sponsor shirts/jerseys have to meet the code of standards to be acceptable.

Same with the code of conduct, too, but that is yet another subject, and a touchy one at that.


People wanting to attend a NATIONAL level or INTERNATIONAL level archery tournament should be required to clean up their act by following a written and enforced dress code...They can survive it for a two or three day event. I don't hear or see anyone from the ASA complaining about having to dress decently for an ASA event????
field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## archerpap

If your just gonna do shirts, then change it across the board!!


----------



## field14

archerpap said:


> If your just gonna do shirts, then change it across the board!!


Collared Shirts, or sponsor shirts that are not t-shirts or muscle shirts. Trousers that are untorn, clean, and decent trousers or decent length, clean, untorn shorts along with TIED and CLEAN unscuffed shoes or flip-flops.
I don't think people would have a problem if the rules allowed denim as long as it isn't ripped, badly worn or worn out, fit properly (in other words none of this underwear showing crap with the belt loops around the bottom of your crotch), and are clean.


----------



## archerpap

You gonna ban camo like the pro division? Referring to shorts


----------



## montigre

Personally, I do not feel camo should be worn at NFAA sanctioned events except specifically for the 3D events that were designed from the outset to mimic a hunting scenario. There is no reason for a field archer to be donned from head to toe in camo. Some camo accessories or camo bows should not be penalized due to the fact of limited accessibility--some things can only be purchased in a camo pattern; however, that does not extend to clothing in general, which is easily obtainable, at very little cost in non-camo form.


----------



## archer_nm

This will happen when :flypig:


----------



## archerpap

Think the BH guys are gonna agree with this?? I wear a black/camo Hoyt shooter shirt and shoot PMFS. I wear camo shorts, along with a lot of other shooters every weekend we shoot field. Do you hunt? I don't shoot 3D, and use all my field shoots to hone my hunting, so why don't field mimic hunting?? I'm aiming at a spot I want to hit, just like on a live animal. See where this is going?? Reason why people will not agree with it, or just not attend the shoots!! The only khaki shorts I wear are those worn at FITA or NFAA events that I'm required to!!


----------



## hdracer

archerpap said:


> Think the BH guys are gonna agree with this?? I wear a black/camo Hoyt shooter shirt and shoot PMFS. I wear camo shorts, along with a lot of other shooters every weekend we shoot field. Do you hunt? I don't shoot 3D, and use all my field shoots to hone my hunting, so why don't field mimic hunting?? I'm aiming at a spot I want to hit, just like on a live animal. See where this is going?? Reason why people will not agree with it, or just not attend the shoots!! *The only khaki shorts I wear are those worn at FITA or NFAA events that I'm required to!!*


I think that is the whole point of this thread. You do it when you are required to. Why would that be any different if NFAA instituted a dress code across the board? If you want to shoot you follow the rules. FITA/NAA has relaxed it's dress code but it still does not allow camo garments other than accessories. Most people don't have any problem with that. It is not like NFAA shooters are any different than those of other sanctions. They register because the want to shoot. 

As for field mimicking hunting, it's not intended to. That is what 3D is for (but still far from simulating the real thing). Otherwise, there would be no cleared lanes, targets under 35 yds and 1 arrow on the field course. Field is great for form and honing your shooting skills but it does not prepare you for hunting where you have one shot, usually under very trying circumstances. There are usually no second chances to adjust your sight or correct an errant shot when hunting the real thing.


----------



## archer_nm

You will not get the Directors to vote for this, Tom talked about the Pros dress code but what all of you don't know is it was decided by the Directors for the most part and yes it was also talked about for the non-pros and it was meet with major resistance. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with a dress code but it will take a lot more support then what has been shown thus far. I as a Concilman have to meet a dress code at each tournament/function that I attend and think it would be beneficial to the NFAA but the dress of the time is different than 20 years ago.


----------



## FS560

Support may be possible for the elimination of torn and ragged clothing, vulgarity, and tops of pants below the butt crack.

This would only be possible at nationals and sectionals. Below that, any interference in state and/or club business would be met with severe rebellion and hasten the demise of the organization.

I do not wear tshirts or jeans but I will defend your right to wear them. In my opinion, pro archers shooting in shorts are far less professional appearing than clean neat blue jeans. Even worse are dress slacks bunched up around the ankles like a homeboy, due to the quiver pulling them down.


----------



## field14

FS560 said:


> Support may be possible for the _elimination of torn and ragged clothing, vulgarity, and tops of pants below the butt crack._
> 
> This would only be possible at nationals and sectionals. Below that, any interference in state and/or club business would be met with severe rebellion and hasten the demise of the organization.
> 
> I do not wear tshirts or jeans but I will defend your right to wear them. In my opinion, pro archers shooting in shorts are far less professional appearing than clean neat blue jeans. Even worse are dress slacks bunched up around the ankles like a homeboy, due to the quiver pulling them down.


Precisely. ASA has done it, FITA/WFA has done it.


----------



## archerpap

FS560 said:


> In my opinion, pro archers shooting in shorts are far less professional appearing than clean neat blue jeans.


Hope your wearing your clean neat blue jeans when it's 95* or more outside shooting a field round!! 

the dress of the time is different than 20 years ago. That says it all!!


----------



## tmorelli

field14 said:


> Precisely. ASA has done it, FITA/WFA has done it.


I think you're putting way too much stock in what ASA has "done". 

The dress code is very simply applied and basically only a collar is required. This is even waived in the case of a "nice looking" manufacturers shirt or when a hoody or a jacket is the outer layer. There are plenty of cut off shorts out there on men and women and even sleeves are optional for both sexes. 

But, I would say the goal was accomplished. Generally the crowd is "nice looking".....

NFAA can't have a simple rule or apply/enforce a rule reasonably. That's your difference.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## FS560

archerpap said:


> Hope your wearing your clean neat blue jeans when it's 95* or more outside shooting a field round!!
> 
> the dress of the time is different than 20 years ago. That says it all!!


Apparently you did not read my statement that I do not wear jeans.


----------



## brtesite

it would be nice that at the state & club level that neatness would be stressed
i read in a 1958 eastern Bowhunter Mag. that even then they were talking bout a dress code. Nothing has changed


----------



## zestycj7

I don't mind there being a dress code, I always wear a team shooters shirt at any big event, but you try and take away my shorts, you had better bring a lunch and alot of band-aids with you....:set1_punch:
Don.


----------



## Brad HT

I wear polos almost every day. So my beef has never been about the shirts we wear. I do agree and think that collard shirts would be idea. My issue comes with the no jeans rule. I dont like dress pants and cargo pants. I want to wear jeans. All my denim is clean, no tears, looks good, and I feel most comfortable wearing them. I dont want to *have *to shoot in dress pants, but I will because the rules say so.
If I could change anything, I would want jeans to be allowed in the NFAA pro class (with a collard shirt of course), but thats just me... a first year nobody....

B~


----------



## mag41vance

Sounds like a Church Business meeting going on here.

Decency & Respectful should be the rule, but Decency and is a far too relative term these days, and respectful is not in vogue at most sporting events.


----------



## CarlV

mag41vance said:


> Sounds like a Church Business meeting going on here.
> 
> Decency & Respectful should be the rule, but Decency and is a far too relative term these days, and respectful is not in vogue at most sporting events.


^^^

Also, I have a problem with someone pushing their idea of what I should wear on me. WHO do you think you are? Things have a way of self-regulating when it comes to what decent dress is and what it isn't.

DONT make another RULE


----------



## Brad HT

CarlV said:


> ^^^
> 
> Also, I have a problem with someone pushing their idea of what I should wear on me. WHO do you think you are? Things have a way of self-regulating when it comes to what decent dress is and what it isn't.
> 
> DONT make another RULE


I hear what your saying... really. I get it... _but_...
The last thing the NFAA or archery in general needs is bad "press". (hear me out....) Imagine at the Vegas Shoot someone shows up in cutoff jeans and a larry the cable guy style tshirt. If people see that and assume that all of archery competitors shoot that way, it will never be taken seriously, which is what I think everyone wants. For the sport to be taken seriously.
In my opinion, Jeans should be okay, but everyone should be required to wear some kind of collared shirt to compete in the national shoots at the very least... it will show a unified front, and will give an outwards appearance of professionalism and integrity. 

B~


----------



## field14

CarlV said:


> ^^^
> 
> Also, I have a problem with someone pushing their idea of what I should wear on me. WHO do you think you are? Things have a way of self-regulating when it comes to what decent dress is and what it isn't.
> 
> DONT make another RULE


Then, you won't be shooting an ASA event IF you don't follow the ASA dress code, will you? They didn't "self regulate" in ASA; otherwise we wouldn't see the DRESS CODE in paragraph C at the BEGINNING of the ASA rules, now would we!
This is from the 2013 ASA RULES book: Page 1 Paragraph C:

_"All competitive shooters are required to wear collared shirts, or may compete in an ASA sponsor’s factory issued competition clothing which may include Henley collars or mock turtle necks (no T-shirts.) Professionals and amateurs will be allowed to compete while wearing shorts (men’s shorts must have a minimum inseam of six (6) inches.)
All competitive shooting classes are prohibited from competing in T-shirts, tank tops, cut-off jeans or short-shorts."_

If you don't believe the above: here is the link:
http://www.asaarchery.com/IP/index.p...ent-info/rules
Who do they think they are? Simple: They are the controlling organization and sponsor/host of the event and their dress code rules have the same impact as the rules of the game itself. Comply, or...bye-bye. Same goes with most all other sporting events...follow their "code" or stay away; your choice.

Even most restaurants and fast-food places have a "code": "No shirts, no shoes? No Service" - _ And I know you've seen that sign on many a restaurant or fast food spot's entry door!

Do I think that jeans should be OK? Yes, I do...but only if said jeans are CLEAN, untorn, not baggy, and definitely NOT showing underwear or butt-crack, or hanging in layers at the shoe tops.


----------



## montigre

Brad HT said:


> I hear what your saying... really. I get it... _but_...
> The last thing the NFAA or archery in general needs is bad "press". (hear me out....) Imagine at the Vegas Shoot someone shows up in cutoff jeans and a larry the cable guy style tshirt. If people see that and assume that all of archery competitors shoot that way, it will never be taken seriously, which is what I think everyone wants. For the sport to be taken seriously.
> In my opinion, Jeans should be okay, but everyone should be required to wear some kind of collared shirt to compete in the national shoots at the very least... it will show a unified front, and will give an outwards appearance of professionalism and integrity. B~


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## DEESHAW

CarlV said:


> ^^^
> 
> Also, I have a problem with someone pushing their idea of what I should wear on me. WHO do you think you are? Things have a way of self-regulating when it comes to what decent dress is and what it isn't.
> 
> DONT make another RULE


 We push our ideas on what is legal equipment for a given class! So do you tell them who are you to tell me what class I can shoot in with what equipment?


----------



## DEESHAW

I think dress codes are a must at the big tourney's don't think that people don't see us archers in this light or that light if we dress well people notice us in a favorable light! I've heard it before from restaurants around ASA shoots (you all look real nice)


----------



## field14

Bingo! FAVORABLE light...not as a bunch of hicks, bums, or bumpkins.....


----------



## fanio

field14 said:


> ...CLEAN unscuffed shoes ...


I agree with a dress code and most of what you say Field14, but requiring people to wear clean or unscuffed shoes is crazy. Do I get DQd if I walk through mud on the course and one of the judges sees me at the half-way mark???

I agree that people should not be wearing worn out shoes with toes poking out etc. I also don't think people should wear flip flops in an archery competition (flip-flops should really be worn only on beaches, or by engineering students).


----------



## montigre

So, since most responders would be in favor of a general dress code (ie collared shirts and untorn, properly-fitting pants/shorts) for Regional and National NFAA events only, would it be possible to start discussions to get a draft started for an agenda item?


----------



## mag41vance

montigre said:


> So, since most responders would be in favor of a general dress code (ie collared shirts and untorn, properly-fitting pants/shorts) for Regional and National NFAA events only, would it be possible to start discussions to get a draft started for an agenda item?


Hey Gail, would this work? I think it could be considered Unisex dress. 








:wink:


----------



## field14

fanio said:


> I agree with a dress code and most of what you say Field14, but requiring people to wear clean or unscuffed shoes is crazy. Do I get DQd if I walk through mud on the course and one of the judges sees me at the half-way mark???
> 
> I agree that people should not be wearing worn out shoes with toes poking out etc. I also don't think people should wear flip flops in an archery competition (flip-flops should really be worn only on beaches, or by engineering students).


Any rule can be nit-picked to death. You and I know darned well that if the place is a mud-house, it becomes pretty obvious concerning the shoes. 
The clean, unscuffed, and TIED shoes or flip flops is more intended for the indoor events anyways. Flip-flops are pretty common footwear, and really don't look that terrible. Howver unkempt, untied or unlaced dirty shoes are an eye-sore.


----------



## field14

montigre said:


> So, since most responders would be in favor of a general dress code (ie collared shirts and untorn, properly-fitting pants/shorts) for Regional and National NFAA events only, would it be possible to start discussions to get a draft started for an agenda item?


Yes. Here's a great STARTING template that is clear and unequivocal: Wouldn't recommend it be copied word for word, however; first that is plagiarism, and second the Directors likely would balk because of it being identical to ASA (ha).

From the ASA Rules, Page 1, Paragraph C:
_"All competitive shooters are required to wear collared shirts, or may compete in an ASA sponsor’s factory issued competition clothing which may include Henley collars or mock turtle necks (no T-shirts.) Professionals and amateurs will be allowed to compete while wearing shorts (men’s shorts must have a minimum inseam of six (6) inches.)
All competitive shooting classes are prohibited from competing in T-shirts, tank tops, cut-off jeans or short-shorts." _

I also wouldn't add a ton more requirements to it either, but perhaps a few. MUST keep it clear, concise, sensible, and "clearly written."

CAUTION: You will never get 100% agreement no matter what is proposed, so you have to shoot for clear, concise, and not overly restrictive. Putting something in there about the DENIMS being OK would be great, along with the shoes issue (not too restrictive).

NO! I won't write it. I've been turned down enough on other proposals in the past. Guess I don't have the right politics or something hahaha.


----------



## Brad HT

Can we at least include an addendum that jeans are okay? I really hate wearing dress pants.... I bet a lot of pros would agree...

B~


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## field14

Brad HT said:


> Can we at least include an addendum that jeans are okay? I really hate wearing dress pants.... I bet a lot of pros would agree...
> 
> B~
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


Whomever writes the agenda item should include what you propose in there...BUT..."hating" to wear dress pants has nothing to do with the dress code. Anyone can wear dress pants and/or dress decently for a 2-3 day major National or International event...or stay home. This is about promoting the sport in the best possible light to the public, TV, and sponsorship interests. 
People dressed like bums, hicks, and country bumpkins do NOT help promote the sport in its best light...and that is what those wanting to dress any old way they feel don't think or care about! Wouldn't you rather have people in town complimenting the group in how well dressed they are and how nice it is to see...rather than having the archery community be a laughing stock?
Gotta present a positive image for the public and let them realize that archery is something that isn't a bunch of people dressed up in clown suits, full camo, and going around shooting holes in things.


----------



## Brad HT

field14 said:


> Whomever writes the agenda item should include what you propose in there...BUT..."hating" to wear dress pants has nothing to do with the dress code. Anyone can wear dress pants and/or dress decently for a 2-3 day major National or International event...or stay home. This is about promoting the sport in the best possible light to the public, TV, and sponsorship interests.
> People dressed like bums, hicks, and country bumpkins do NOT help promote the sport in its best light...and that is what those wanting to dress any old way they feel don't think or care about! Wouldn't you rather have people in town complimenting the group in how well dressed they are and how nice it is to see...rather than having the archery community be a laughing stock?
> Gotta present a positive image for the public and let them realize that archery is something that isn't a bunch of people dressed up in clown suits, full camo, and going around shooting holes in things.


I agree with you, but I think wearing jeans doesn't necessarily make you look like a bum or a hick. The ASA allows jeans and they look great!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## field14

Brad HT said:


> I agree with you, but I think wearing jeans doesn't necessarily make you look like a bum or a hick. The ASA allows jeans and they look great!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


You aren't getting any argument from me about denim jeans...the only thing being not those that appear badly worn, the torn ones with holes in them on purpose, or ill-fitting ones that show butt-cracks or are baggy and/or are in layers at the tops of the shoes.
Yep, the ASA allows them, and I do believe over in Europe, denims are allowed too! Archery in Europe is a BIG DEAL, but it is certainly promoted and the dress-code is even down to the club/local level.

However, you "Eat the Elephant ONE bite at a Time"...gotta start with a written and enforced dress code that is clear and concise, similar to what the ASA has undertaken and enforced. So had the WFA/NAA...but a bit more stringent.


----------



## Brad HT

field14 said:


> You aren't getting any argument from me about denim jeans...the only thing being not those that appear badly worn, the torn ones with holes in them on purpose, or ill-fitting ones that show butt-cracks or are baggy and/or are in layers at the tops of the shoes.
> Yep, the ASA allows them, and I do believe over in Europe, denims are allowed too! Archery in Europe is a BIG DEAL, but it is certainly promoted and the dress-code is even down to the club/local level.
> 
> However, you "Eat the Elephant ONE bite at a Time"...gotta start with a written and enforced dress code that is clear and concise, similar to what the ASA has undertaken and enforced. So had the WFA/NAA...but a bit more stringent.


Then we are in complete agreement. If I was a better writer and knew how to tackle something like writing a proposal, I certainly would...!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## montigre

I'd be happy to assist with editing and such, but I am too much of a newbie to take this on from the front seat--I have NO clout....lol!!


----------



## montigre

Vance, you're a sick unit..... :wink:


----------



## Brad HT

montigre said:


> I'd be happy to assist with editing and such, but I am too much of a newbie to take this on from the front seat--I have NO clout....lol!!


I'd even be happy to help write it, but I'd need a starting point, or something to copy off of. Besides, I want to have something written up about 27 series arrows and wraps and bulldog collars...
B~


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## mag41vance

montigre said:


> Vance, you're a sick unit..... :wink:


I've been told.

As far as being able to ride in on a horse with pistols blazing to the rules committee, I only know one person on here with a horse. 
Sooooo Hmmmm. :llama: 

Remember in the military rule #1. Never volunteer. :becky:

I do think that it is a shame that seemingly rules always come about as a result of a few people that are on their own agenda. That is generally the side that doesn't care, and the side that only cares. People in the middle are scratching their heads wondering what the fuss is about. :noidea: 

If a rule is made requiring a particular attire, I'm already in compliance and have been for some time. I'm a golfer


----------



## montigre

Okay, using the Pro Dress Code as a guide, here's a jumping off point that will open this up for further discussion: Don't beat me up too badly folks, I'm still a newbie and bruise easily...

To present NFAA archery competitions in a more favorable public light, at all Sectional, National, and NFAA-sanctioned events above the state level, all non-professional competitive archers shall wear non-camo slacks, jeans, cargo pants, capris, shorts or skirts that are clean, properly-fitting, and not torn. Shorts and skirts can be no shorter than two inches above the knee. Non-camo shirts and tops shall be of a collared design and must cover the entire torso of the competitor when at full draw. Uniforms provided by or purchased from sponsors and non-camo shooter attire may be worn. Camo accessory attire/equipment (hats, caps, visors, quivers, chairs, etc) will be allowed. Camo shooting equipment (bows, stabilizers, sights, etc) will be allowed. T-shirts, swimming suits, cut-offs and obscene or vulgar slogans or pictures on clothing are prohibited. 

Closed-toed shoes or boots that cover the entire foot shall be worn at all times while competing. Sandals, flip-flops and similar types of footwear are prohibited. 

This dress code will not be enforced during practice sessions. 

State and local competitions will not fall under the guidelines of this dress code. 

In the event of inclement weather, appropriate outerwear is permissible as long as it does not violate the spirit of this rule. 

Violations to the dress code will be enforced by the NFAA and may result in reprimand or disqualification from the event. Violations can be brought to the Tournament Chair/Representative or NFAA Representative by the Tournament Chair or any competitor.

At Sectionals and other sanctioned events the dress code shall be enforced by the Sectionals Tournament Chair/Representative or Chair/Representative of the sanctioned event. 

Competitors disqualified from competition due to violation of the dress code will not be eligible for refunds of entry fees in whole or in part. 

Competitors removed from competition for dress code violations may not makeup arrows missed for score if they return to competition after meeting dress code. 

Competitors may petition the Tournament Chair/ Representative for exemption to this rule only in cases of extreme hardship or necessity (ie lost/stolen luggage, medical appliances that requires alteration of clothing, etc.) Such a petition must be filed no less than 6 hours prior to the start of competition. In these cases the decision of the Tournament Chair is final.


----------



## montigre

mag41vance said:


> I've been told.
> 
> As far as being able to ride in on a horse with pistols blazing to the rules committee, I only know one person on here with a horse.
> Sooooo Hmmmm. :llama:
> 
> Remember in the military rule #1. Never volunteer. :becky:
> 
> I do think that it is a shame that seemingly rules always come about as a result of a few people that are on their own agenda. That is generally the side that doesn't care, and the side that only cares. People in the middle are scratching their heads wondering what the fuss is about. :noidea:
> 
> If a rule is made requiring a particular attire, I'm already in compliance and have been for some time. I'm a golfer


I agree, there is only one, but perhaps a little nudge can get the horse moving.... 

I'm not volunteering per se, but I also do not believe in bringing up a possible problem for discussion without at least making an honest effort to propose a viable solution. So, the reason for my even putting a dog into this race is that I really have grown to love this sport and feel it's not getting the public and media attention it could because too many are projecting the image that NFAA shooters are no more than a bunch of country bumpkins flinging arrows around in the woods or in an arena which could not be farther from the truth. 

I also dress well at shoots, even the local ones, as do most of the people I shoot with, but even in my short time in the sport, I have seen some pretty bad things out there that would make someone not familiar with the sport cringe....

There has to be a happy meeting ground, I would think...


----------



## TNMAN

Just keep it simple. Sounds like Field wants something a little better than work clothes or chore clothes, but maybe not quite as nice as going to town clothes.

I'll quit before anyone makes me shoot in my burying clothes. Just this hicks opinion.

edit: not a horse on the place here--just mules


----------



## Brad HT

This is fantastic...! Now we just need to find out how to submit this. I would imagine that taking it to our state rep would be the answer. If thats the case, anyone interested shoud take a version of this to their own rep, and ask for it to be submitted... that way it will be heard from multiple directions....

B~




montigre said:


> Okay, using the Pro Dress Code as a guide, here's a jumping off point that will open this up for further discussion: Don't beat me up too badly folks, I'm still a newbie and bruise easily...
> 
> To present NFAA archery competitions in a more favorable public light, at all Sectional, National, and NFAA-sanctioned events above the state level, all non-professional competitive archers shall wear non-camo slacks, jeans, cargo pants, capris, shorts or skirts that are clean, properly-fitting, and not torn. Shorts and skirts can be no shorter than two inches above the knee. Non-camo shirts and tops shall be of a collared design and must cover the entire torso of the competitor when at full draw. Uniforms provided by or purchased from sponsors and non-camo shooter attire may be worn. Camo accessory attire/equipment (hats, caps, visors, quivers, chairs, etc) will be allowed. Camo shooting equipment (bows, stabilizers, sights, etc) will be allowed. T-shirts, swimming suits, cut-offs and obscene or vulgar slogans or pictures on clothing are prohibited.
> 
> Closed-toed shoes or boots that cover the entire foot shall be worn at all times while competing. Sandals, flip-flops and similar types of footwear are prohibited.
> 
> This dress code will not be enforced during practice sessions.
> 
> State and local competitions will not fall under the guidelines of this dress code.
> 
> In the event of inclement weather, appropriate outerwear is permissible as long as it does not violate the spirit of this rule.
> 
> Violations to the dress code will be enforced by the NFAA and may result in reprimand or disqualification from the event. Violations can be brought to the Tournament Chair/Representative or NFAA Representative by the Tournament Chair or any competitor.
> 
> At Sectionals and other sanctioned events the dress code shall be enforced by the Sectionals Tournament Chair/Representative or Chair/Representative of the sanctioned event.
> 
> Competitors disqualified from competition due to violation of the dress code will not be eligible for refunds of entry fees in whole or in part.
> 
> Competitors removed from competition for dress code violations may not makeup arrows missed for score if they return to competition after meeting dress code.
> 
> Competitors may petition the Tournament Chair/ Representative for exemption to this rule only in cases of extreme hardship or necessity (ie lost/stolen luggage, medical appliances that requires alteration of clothing, etc.) Such a petition must be filed no less than 6 hours prior to the start of competition. In these cases the decision of the Tournament Chair is final.


----------



## Smoknnca

archerpap said:


> Hope your wearing your clean neat blue jeans when it's 95* or more outside shooting a field round!!
> 
> the dress of the time is different than 20 years ago. That says it all!!


Only a fool would try to legislate and enforce a dress code at Redding. Too many weather variables. I uderstand a dress code in a controlled environment like Vegas. I agree that times have changed and those that survive are those that adapt not those who choose exclusivity via dress codes.


----------



## field14

Once again....ASA is an OUTDOOR venue...they have a dress code...and nobody seems to complain about it...WHY is there such resistance in the NFAA over the exact same issue?

ASA adapted...and put in a dress code for their OUTDOOR events...and obviously, the ASA is "surviving" it.

field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## tmorelli

field14 said:


> Once again....ASA is an OUTDOOR venue...they have a dress code...and nobody seems to complain about it...WHY is there such resistance in the NFAA over the exact same issue?
> 
> ASA adapted...and put in a dress code for their OUTDOOR events...and obviously, the ASA is "surviving" it.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Because as this thread has already shown.... the likelihood that an NFAA dress code would be reasonably applied is slim to none. 

ASA requires a collar. 

This thread is already calling for unscuffed, clean, laced up, closed toe shoes.... and non-camo "properly fitting clothes".... 

SMH.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## field14

Starts with the proper format per the NFAA agenda guidelines that can be found in the NFAA Constitution and by-laws and/or on the NFAA web-site.
Then, that goes to your State NFAA director for submission, I think. The more Directors that get the same feedback, the better.

Gotta cross the "T's" and dot the "i's" however. With something like the dress-code proposal it is going to really have to be perfect and well written because it is a volatile issue and many "personal opinions" have to be overcome as well as a reason to answer, "Well, we've not had one before, so why do we need one now?" This, along with many other things and opinions to overcome.

Can't be too lengthy so as to lose focus or confuse people either. Straight, concise, to the point and abundantly clear, with little room for interpretations or loop-holes for the non-compliants to raise a fuss about.


----------



## field14

tmorelli said:


> Because as this thread has already shown.... the likelihood that an NFAA dress code would be reasonably applied is slim to none.
> 
> ASA requires a collar.
> 
> This thread is already calling for unscuffed, clean, laced up, closed toe shoes.... and non-camo "properly fitting clothes"....
> 
> SMH.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


What you say about ASA above is only partly true....Once again, for about the 3rd or 4th time...and read it this time, here is the quote from the ASA rules:

From the ASA Rules, Page 1, Paragraph C:
_"All competitive shooters are required to wear collared shirts, *or may compete in an ASA sponsor’s factory issued competition clothing which may include Henley collars or mock turtle necks (no T-shirts.) Professionals and amateurs will be allowed to compete while wearing shorts (men’s shorts must have a minimum inseam of six (6) inches.)
All competitive shooting classes are prohibited from competing in T-shirts, tank tops, cut-off jeans or short-shorts."*_

What is in RED is the part you didn't bother to talk about...you focused only upon collared shirts, or the first sentence, period.

Obviously those naysayers about a possible NFAA dress code are IGNORING the "Professionals and amateurs will be allowed to compete while wearing shorts..." part of it, too. Conformity with much of anything these days is a problem with most of the "younger generations", and is getting worse as time passes.


----------



## tmorelli

field14 said:


> What you say about ASA above is only partly true....Once again, for about the 3rd or 4th time...and read it this time, here is the quote from the ASA rules:
> 
> From the ASA Rules, Page 1, Paragraph C:
> _"All competitive shooters are required to wear collared shirts, *or may compete in an ASA sponsor’s factory issued competition clothing which may include Henley collars or mock turtle necks (no T-shirts.) Professionals and amateurs will be allowed to compete while wearing shorts (men’s shorts must have a minimum inseam of six (6) inches.)
> All competitive shooting classes are prohibited from competing in T-shirts, tank tops, cut-off jeans or short-shorts."*_
> 
> What is in RED is the part you didn't bother to talk about...you focused only upon collared shirts, or the first sentence, period.


I have no need to read it again.

I'm focusing on the reason with which the written rule is applied on site. I've never seen a dress code issue made of or by anyone and I'm telling you that there are even exceptions made to the collar rule. 

I have actual experience beyond what the written rule says.

The rule, application and enforcement is all..... key word..... REASONABLE. The simple rule is ENOUGH and people basically want to comply so the goal is accomplished in keeping the crowd presentable. 

It is misguided at minimum to think that the dress of archers at competitions is anywhere near the top of the list of problems or shortcomings that keep our sport from growing to the masses or prime time TV. 



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TNMAN

field14 said:


> Once again....ASA is an OUTDOOR venue...they have a dress code...and nobody seems to complain about it...*WHY is there such resistance in the NFAA *over the exact same issue?
> 
> ASA adapted...and put in a dress code for their OUTDOOR events...and obviously, the ASA is "surviving" it.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


All competitive shooters are required to wear collared shirts, or may compete in an ASA sponsor’s factory issued competition clothing which may include Henley collars or mock turtle necks (no T-shirts.) Professionals and amateurs will be allowed to compete while wearing shorts (men’s shorts must have a minimum inseam of six (6) inches.)
All competitive shooting classes are prohibited from competing in T-shirts, tank tops, cut-off jeans or short-shorts.

*To present NFAA archery competitions in a more favorable public light, at all Sectional, National, and NFAA-sanctioned events above the state level, all non-professional competitive archers shall wear non-camo slacks, jeans, cargo pants, capris, shorts or skirts that are clean, properly-fitting, and not torn. Shorts and skirts can be no shorter than two inches above the knee. Non-camo shirts and tops shall be of a collared design and must cover the entire torso of the competitor when at full draw. Uniforms provided by or purchased from sponsors and non-camo shooter attire may be worn. Camo accessory attire/equipment (hats, caps, visors, quivers, chairs, etc) will be allowed. Camo shooting equipment (bows, stabilizers, sights, etc) will be allowed. T-shirts, swimming suits, cut-offs and obscene or vulgar slogans or pictures on clothing are prohibited. Closed-toed shoes or boots that cover the entire foot shall be worn at all times while competing. Sandals, flip-flops and similar types of footwear are prohibited. This dress code will not be enforced during practice sessions. State and local competitions will not fall under the guidelines of this dress code. In the event of inclement weather, appropriate outerwear is permissible as long as it does not violate the spirit of this rule. Violations to the dress code will be enforced by the NFAA and may result in reprimand or disqualification from the event. Violations can be brought to the Tournament Chair/Representative or NFAA Representative by the Tournament Chair or any competitor. At Sectionals and other sanctioned events the dress code shall be enforced by the Sectionals Tournament Chair/Representative or Chair/Representative of the sanctioned event. 
Competitors disqualified from competition due to violation of the dress code will not be eligible for refunds of entry fees in whole or in part. Competitors removed from competition for dress code violations may not makeup arrows missed for score if they return to competition after meeting dress code. Competitors may petition the Tournament Chair/ Representative for exemption to this rule only in cases of extreme hardship or necessity (ie lost/stolen luggage, medical appliances that requires alteration of clothing, etc.) Such a petition must be filed no less than 6 hours prior to the start of competition. In these cases the decision of the Tournament Chair is final. *

Same issues---totally different takes on a solution. Whatever happened to that plan for eating elephants?

The non-camo language by itself is enough to rip this organization completely apart. And I don't wear camo to field shoots.


----------



## field14

tmorelli said:


> I have no need to read it again.
> 
> I'm focusing on the reason with which the written rule is applied on site. I've never seen a dress code issue made of or by anyone and I'm telling you that there are even exceptions made to the collar rule.
> 
> I have actual experience beyond what the written rule says.
> 
> The rule, application and enforcement is all..... key word..... REASONABLE. The simple rule is ENOUGH and people basically want to comply so the goal is accomplished in keeping the crowd presentable.
> 
> It is misguided at minimum to think that the dress of archers at competitions is anywhere near the top of the list of problems or shortcomings that keep our sport from growing to the masses or prime time TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


You have it right about reasonable...but right now the NFAA has NOTHING concerning the dress of its competitors, excepting of course what the NFAA Pros supposedly agreed upon as their dress code.

What the ASA came up with for a Dress Code rule is clear, concise, and reasonable. It allows some wiggle room to cover outdoor situations concerning temperature and weather conditions, too. 

The biggest NFAA events are INDOORS, with the exception of the Redding Trail Shoot, and the way smaller event (600 or less) the NFAA National Outdoor. A dress code similar in nature to that of the ASA would do plenty to have people "clean up their acts" and to be more presentable for those major events. The World Cup competitions, the WFA (formerly FITA), and the European events all have a dress code that is reasonable and enforced. The NFAA stands alone in not having anything in writing and thus, no let to stand on with regard to proper dress for their major events, but that is obvious.

I do think that the manner of dress and appearance of the shooters at the major events, especially Vegas, the Classic and the National indoors have a HUGE impact upon how the NFAA participants are viewed by the public (in restaurants and about town) AND especially the media.

I also think that the dress code can be written in one or two concise and straight to the point sentences; perhaps no more than 4 sentences that would pass muster and still get the job done. People need structure and not having it creates what we have..a slip-shod manner of dress that is pretty much "oh, just put on whatever you feel like" and come on in an' sling sum arreys with us."


----------



## tmorelli

field14 said:


> I do think that the manner of dress and appearance of the shooters at the major events, especially Vegas, the Classic and the National indoors have a HUGE impact upon how the NFAA participants are viewed by the public (in restaurants and about town) AND especially the media.


I see no reason not to have a rule as long as it is reasonable..... I prefer anarchy over excessive regulation :shade:

Now, a bit of your motivation is showing in red print. If you dream of or intend to dictate or influence what these shooters wear all weekend, what you're really saying is "our average attendee doesn't fit the mold of what we, the NFAA, think is acceptable or should be." 

Sounds a bit "big-government-ish" to me.... or maybe even "elitist"


----------



## carlosii

ASA only requires shirts with collars for the pro am portion. the team shoot, the SIMMS, the practice bales, and the practice range are wear what'cha brung. i've seen some pretty short shorts on some of the ASA women, including pros. you'll also see some rather raunchy tee shirts in the vendor area and on the practice ranges.

flip flops are beach wear, but if somebody wants to wear them, its their feet not mine.

i'm not convinced that you can't have nice looking camo shirts or shorts...i own a couple made by under armor...not exactly walmart designer stuff.

i remember the days of target archery when we wore white pants and white tee shirts...oh, and a white cap. now those were the days. 

if the governing body sees the need for a dress code, then put one in...but if you have to have a dress code that says something about some of your membership, don't ya think?


----------



## JF from VA

I just got back from the National Senior Games in Cleveland. The archery event was well attended and there was extensive coverage in the local press. I saw no inappropriate dress problems. The dress rules were simple and to the point:

"Archers will not be required to wear white or blue attire, however, they will be expected to wear clothing appropriate for a national event."

I saw some archers with camo hats and my feeling is that if someone wants to wear camo, more power to them. Camo is no worse than some of the manufacturers shirts which have become walking billboards.


----------



## montigre

Okay, so let's then tighten it up a little and remove the offensive non-camo verbiage....

To present NFAA archery competitions in a more favorable public light, at all Sectional, National, and NFAA-sanctioned events above the state level, all non-professional competitive archers shall wear slacks, jeans, cargo pants, capris, shorts or skirts that are clean, properly-fitting, and not torn. Shorts and skirts can be no shorter than two inches above the knee. Shirts and tops shall be of a collared design and must cover the entire torso of the competitor when at full draw. Uniforms provided by or purchased from sponsors and appropriate shooter attire may be worn. T-shirts, swimming suits, cut-offs and obscene or vulgar slogans or pictures on clothing are prohibited.

Closed-toed shoes or boots that cover the entire foot shall be worn at all times while competing. Sandals, flip-flops and similar types of footwear are prohibited.

This dress code will not be enforced during practice sessions.

State and local competitions will not fall under the guidelines of this dress code.

In the event of inclement weather, appropriate outerwear is permissible as long as it does not violate the spirit of this rule.

Violations to the dress code will be enforced by the NFAA and may result in reprimand or disqualification from the event. Violations can be brought to the Tournament Chair/Representative or NFAA Representative by the Tournament Chair or any competitor.

Competitors may petition the Tournament Chair/ Representative for exemption to this rule only in cases of extreme hardship or necessity (ie lost/stolen luggage, medical appliances that requires alteration of clothing, etc.) Such a petition must be filed no less than 6 hours prior to the start of competition. In these cases the decision of the Tournament Chair is final.


----------



## field14

I don't think the sentence about the flip-flops, sandals, etc would "fly". However something about torn shoes, shoes that are unkempt or "filthy" or something of that nature would fit better. There are LOTS of competitors that wear sandals and flip flops while shooting. I even know some and have known some that compete indoors - - barefooted. 

The point is about neatness and dressing appropriately for a National or International level NFAA (or WAF) event, but of course the "appropriately" needs a better definition because of the semantics surrounding what is appropriate. Appropriate for one person could be a "speedo", and for another person a coat and tie. :mg:ukey: :mg:


----------



## montigre

The closed-toe shoes is more of a safety issue and a lot easier to qualify than the use of a term such as "filthy". This focus is only for the higher level events (Secs/Nats/Vegas/Redding, etc), so if someone wants to shoot in flip flops or go barefoot at their club shoots or state competitions, then, so be it.


----------



## carlosii

tmorelli said:


> Because as this thread has already shown.... the likelihood that an NFAA dress code would be reasonably applied is slim to none.
> 
> ASA requires a collar.
> 
> This thread is already calling for unscuffed, clean, laced up, closed toe shoes.... and non-camo "properly fitting clothes"....
> 
> SMH.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


:thumbs_up


----------



## carlosii

tmorelli said:


> I have no need to read it again.
> 
> I'm focusing on the reason with which the written rule is applied on site. I've never seen a dress code issue made of or by anyone and I'm telling you that there are even exceptions made to the collar rule.
> 
> I have actual experience beyond what the written rule says.
> 
> The rule, application and enforcement is all..... key word..... REASONABLE. The simple rule is ENOUGH and people basically want to comply so the goal is accomplished in keeping the crowd presentable.
> 
> It is misguided at minimum to think that the dress of archers at competitions is anywhere near the top of the list of problems or shortcomings that keep our sport from growing to the masses or prime time TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


:thumbs_up


----------



## carlosii

tmorelli said:


> I see no reason not to have a rule as long as it is reasonable..... I prefer anarchy over excessive regulation :shade:
> 
> Now, a bit of your motivation is showing in red print. If you dream of or intend to dictate or influence what these shooters wear all weekend, what you're really saying is "our average attendee doesn't fit the mold of what we, the NFAA, think is acceptable or should be."
> 
> Sounds a bit "big-government-ish" to me.... or maybe even "elitist"


:thumbs_up

so why not get the ok from ASA to copy their rule? btw, at my first ASA pro am i went out wearing my tee shirt with our local club logo on it. a simple statement from a range official set me on the right track...there was no reporting by someone i was shooting with, no penalty, no big deal...


----------



## field14

montigre said:


> The closed-toe shoes is more of a safety issue and a lot easier to qualify than the use of a term such as "filthy". This focus is only for the higher level events (Secs/Nats/Vegas/Redding, etc), so if someone wants to shoot in flip flops or go barefoot at their club shoots or state competitions, then, so be it.


Yes, the safety issue concerning footwear is understandable. However, you have to realize that the dress code would also apply indoors, and that is a different scenario. Indoors, lots of people do indeed wear sandals and flip-flops for shooting. A strict rule about closed toes shoes could "kill" the entire proposal.
Just sayin'


----------



## ThunderEagle

I don't see a dress code as being a big deal. When I went to the state FITA indoor tournament we had to adhere to the NAA dress code. *shrug*

Isn't the problem with the NFAA more of one at the local level? There are just not enough new/young shooters. A dress code at the national level isn't going to change that IMO.


----------



## ron w

I think the problem lies in the fact that ASA sponsored shoots are more "professional-oriented" functions, where being a pro shooter, it is understood that you should look "sharp" and the NFAA is more concerned about getting the general public to shoot a bow, (I believe there's reference to that, in their "mission statement" of their constitution), so they're somewhat reluctant to produce rules that might be looked upon as "controlling", or "discriminating" or "condescending", by the general population. the point is, that if the "rule" has been made, it then requires judgement as the policing effort and no-one wants their character to be "judged", by the clothes they wear.
I do agree with Tom though, there's just no reason to show up at a competition dressed like a slob....pro or not.


----------



## tmorelli

ron w said:


> I think the problem lies in the fact that ASA sponsored shoots are more "professional-oriented" functions, where being a pro shooter, it is understood that you should look "sharp" and the NFAA is more concerned about getting the general public to shoot a bow, (I believe there's reference to that, in their "mission statement" of their constitution), so they're somewhat reluctant to produce rules that might be looked upon as "controlling", or "discriminating" or "condescending", by the general population.


Ron, I don't know how that could be more wrong. If there are 1500 shooters at a major ASA event, about 100-125 of them are pro's. At "state level" ASA events, it is rare to see a pro and I've never seen more than 4-5. 

With one foot in, I would also say that my and your view's of the NFAA couldn't be more different.


----------



## montigre

ron w said:


> I think the NFAA is more concerned about getting the general public to shoot a bow, (I believe there's reference to that, in their "mission statement" of their constitution), so they're somewhat reluctant to produce rules that might be looked upon as "controlling", or "discriminating" or "condescending", by the general population.


But if instated, a dress code would have very little, if any, impact on the general public learning to shoot a bow under the NFAA umbrella as the dress code would pertain solely to sanctioned competitions above the state/local levels. Very few beginning archers venture out to a Sectional or National-level competition when they are still learning the very basics of the sport. As mentioned earlier, this would be no more condescending than stores and eateries posting "no shirt, no shoes, no service" signage which has pretty much been universally accepted as the status quo.


----------



## montigre

field14 said:


> Yes, the safety issue concerning footwear is understandable. However, you have to realize that the dress code would also apply indoors, and that is a different scenario. Indoors, lots of people do indeed wear sandals and flip-flops for shooting. A strict rule about closed toes shoes could "kill" the entire proposal. Just sayin'


It may, pull the breaks on it, I don't know. What I have jotted down as a suggested dress code is not something cast in stone, but is presented as a junping off point to allow for open discussion of the subject and possible editing into something that could eventually be presented as an agenda item. All discussions or decisions do not have to be made today, there is plenty of time for research, investigation, and open discourse. 

Also, believe me, I have blown out my fair share of flip flops over the years and surely would not want to have a catastrophic blow out while carrying a handful of arrows at an indoor competition. Is Vegas not shot on carpeting? That could catch a flip flop in a heart beat... :mg:


----------



## field14

It is a good starting point. You need to run it by your NFAA State Director and even your Sectional Councilman for the feedback and proper format and recommendations on the wording to make it more palatable (to the Director, especially). Then, I think it is OK to send it to other NFAA Directors (or your State Director can do that) to get more than just one "signing off" on it. Must follow the rules explicitly for this to stand any chance at all of being looked at seriously.

T


----------



## montigre

field14 said:


> It is a good starting point. You need to run it by your NFAA State Director and even your Sectional Councilman for the feedback and proper format and recommendations on the wording to make it more palatable (to the Director, especially). Then, I think it is OK to send it to other NFAA Directors (or your State Director can do that) to get more than just one "signing off" on it. Must follow the rules explicitly for this to stand any chance at all of being looked at seriously.T


Agreed, I hope to run the idea and rough draft past my State Director this weekend for his input and recommendations--if we end up going to the same shoot--there are a 4 clubs hosting shoots this weekend in my area...


----------



## CarlV

We are forgetting a major part of our presentation to the public and media.

All competitors should have a fresh haircut with males hair no longer than four inches and their ears not covered, female competitors should have their hair cut no longer than shoulder length for safety reasons.

Male competitors must have either a clean shave or a beard no longer than 1/2" in length (for safety reasons).

Also, we should consider a ban on accents. A southern drawl or northern twang could place archery in a poor light on TV if such participant were to be interviewed.

See where I'm going with this? Could we perhaps dream up more "rules"?


----------



## ron w

tmorelli,
that could very well be. it's been 8 or more years since I've shot competitively. back then the ASA events around my area, were pretty much considered "the big dog shoots". it's probably all changed and I shouldn't have even thrown my 2 cents in!


----------



## montigre

CarlV,
If you have something constructive to add to this conversation, either in favor of a dress code or against it, then please do so; all opinions are valid and welcome. If you're just going to P and moan and attempt to derail the current discussion, please keep it to yourself. Thanks. ~G


----------



## mag41vance

montigre said:


> there are a 4 clubs hosting shoots this weekend in my area...


What a great problem to have. :wink: ENE-MENE-MINE-MOE


----------



## ccwilder3

montigre said:


> CarlV,
> If you have something constructive to add to this conversation, either in favor of a dress code or against it, then please do so; all opinions are valid and welcome. If you're just going to P and moan and attempt to derail the current discussion, please keep it to yourself. Thanks. ~G


Thank you for letting us have an opinion. Unless of course it disagrees with yours in which case it is called P and moaning.

Actually the topic of this thread is nothing but P and moaning about a problem that doesn't exist.


----------



## CarlV

montigre said:


> CarlV,
> If you have something constructive to add to this conversation, either in favor of a dress code or against it, then please do so; all opinions are valid and welcome. If you're just going to P and moan and attempt to derail the current discussion, please keep it to yourself. Thanks. ~G


If you couldn't read my post as being against telling people how they are allowed to dress, I'm sorry. I should have been clearer I guess.

Thank you for calling me out. I guess your point of view (opinion) is more important than mine.



ccwilder3 said:


> Thank you for letting us have an opinion. Unless of course it disagrees with yours in which case it is called P and moaning.
> 
> Actually the topic of this thread is nothing but P and moaning about a problem that doesn't exist.


Agree. ^^^


----------



## mag41vance

CarlV said:


> If you couldn't read my post as being against telling people how they are allowed to dress, I'm sorry. I should have been clearer I guess.
> 
> Thank you for calling me out. I guess your point of view (opinion) is more important than mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree. ^^^


Come on guys, I don't really think any of us joined the NFAA because of a particular dress code.
And if we really think it's depriving us of some constitutional right of expression to adhere to a Dress code, I believe we are missing the point. 
Every Class in the NFAA has to conform to a set of rules or guidelines concerning our particular division / class. That seems to be Okay with everyone.
Why is having a dress code that basically is trying to have an across the board level of respect for our sport a problem?

Just cause we're old or set in our ways doesn't mean we're stuck where we are.

I haven't read one thing in here that would indicate a dress code would be class warfare. 

Archery is generally an individual competition, however I look at the different sanctioning Bodies of archery as Teams.

I always liked the aspects of teams wearing uniforms which is an indication of a unified front, uniformity. Archers need to respect our sport, and each other as archers. Not saying we need uniforms, just saying unified respect of what we love.

"Proper" dress is not a problem. Figuring out what "proper" means will be the real task.


----------



## Macker

mag41vance said:


> Come on guys, I don't really think any of us joined the NFAA because of a particular dress code.
> And if we really think it's depriving us of some constitutional right of expression to adhere to a Dress code, I believe we are missing the point.
> Every Class in the NFAA has to conform to a set of rules or guidelines concerning our particular division / class. That seems to be Okay with everyone.
> Why is having a dress code that basically is trying to have an across the board level of respect for our sport a problem?
> 
> Just cause we're old or set in our ways doesn't mean we're stuck where we are.
> 
> I haven't read one thing in here that would indicate a dress code would be class warfare.
> 
> Archery is generally an individual competition, however I look at the different sanctioning Bodies of archery as Teams.
> 
> I always liked the aspects of teams wearing uniforms which is an indication of a unified front, uniformity. Archers need to respect our sport, and each other as archers. Not saying we need uniforms, just saying unified respect of what we love.
> 
> "Proper" dress is not a problem. Figuring out what "proper" means will be the real task.


Very well said!


----------



## SonnyThomas

Not saying there shouldn't be a dress code, but shouldn't we start at our schools? Sitting in the truck at a local grocery store waiting on my wife and Lunch hour came for the local high school. I thought a Clown reunion was taking place. Baggy pants, balloon something basketball shorts? Shirts? I think they were shirts. Multi-colored hair...on boys...I think they were boys. I couldn't really tell for the earrings. Wife said they were boys, but that's women for you. So this is has been going on for how many years? Is this a carry-over?

Reasonable and clean is tolerable. Never cared for collared shirts, but I have them for ASA ProAm events. If I could get by with a nice t-shirt, yep. The thing is, the vast majority of all shooting at some archery event is just to have fun. What 60 or 70,000 belong to archery organizations? And topping out any one major event is something of 1300, more at some, less at others.
And on the flip side, show up at a local club event wearing a Staff shooter shirt and WHOA! What's that s.o.b. doing here? 

The other problem is, nobody is looking. Nobody as in TV coverage or outside big name sponsors, Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Fed Ex, and so on. We can't even get organizations to come forth with them wanting a outside big name sponsor. Least wise I haven't seen or heard of it. The rumor is they don't want some outside force dictating requirements. If the organizations were even trying....Yes, sure, dress codes...regulated to the affair that is...Pros, show your best. Amateurs, look good. Club event, casual is as casual is.


----------



## montigre

SonnyThomas said:


> Not saying there shouldn't be a dress code, but shouldn't we start at our schools? Sitting in the truck at a local grocery store waiting on my wife and Lunch hour came for the local high school. I thought a Clown reunion was taking place. Baggy pants, balloon something basketball shorts? Shirts? I think they were shirts. Multi-colored hair...on boys...I think they were boys. I couldn't really tell for the earrings. Wife said they were boys, but that's women for you. So this is has been going on for how many years? Is this a carry-over?
> 
> Reasonable and clean is tolerable. Never cared for collared shirts, but I have them for ASA ProAm events. If I could get by with a nice t-shirt, yep. The thing is, the vast majority of all shooting at some archery event is just to have fun. What 60 or 70,000 belong to archery organizations? And topping out any one major event is something of 1300, more at some, less at others.
> And on the flip side, show up at a local club event wearing a Staff shooter shirt and WHOA! What's that s.o.b. doing here?
> 
> The other problem is, nobody is looking. Nobody as in TV coverage or outside big name sponsors, Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Fed Ex, and so on. We can't even get organizations to come forth with them wanting a outside big name sponsor. Least wise I haven't seen or heard of it. The rumor is they don't want some outside force dictating requirements. If the organizations were even trying....Yes, sure, dress codes...regulated to the affair that is...Pros, show your best. Amateurs, look good. Club event, casual is as casual is.


:thumbs_up Again, more good points!! 

Maybe another thread should be started regarding the lack of major outside-of-archery sponsorhips. I mean, even the skateboarders have Mountain Dew working on their side and that sport has taken off to the stratosphere over the past decade or so... From those humble beginnings, the Winter and Summer X-Games have been created via ESPN's patronage that also showcase the other "fringe sports" of snowboarding, freestyle skiing, and motorcross along with the original skateboarding. Archery is definately doing something wrong on the marketing side of the game!!


----------



## FS560

montigre said:


> CarlV,
> If you have something constructive to add to this conversation, either in favor of a dress code or against it, then please do so; all opinions are valid and welcome. If you're just going to P and moan and attempt to derail the current discussion, please keep it to yourself. Thanks. ~G


Are you now the thread police?

CarlIV has the right to voice his opinion and to do it in the tongue in cheek method that he did. I agree with him. Some of the opinions here are bordering on highly regimented dress code restrictions.

This thing about footwear sounds like some of the Mayor Bloomberg nefarious crap from New York.

One has only to look at homeowners associations (now the fourth level of government) to see how purportedly civilized people go off the deep end dreaming up rules to govern others. This whole attitude of high regimentation in the governing of others is the reason the directors balk at dress codes for the non pros.


----------



## FS560

Watching Top Shot the other night, I saw blue jeans, without holes and tears of course, and sponsors shirts that looked fine. The blue jeans were actually better than the shorts and pseudo swat team pants. Oops, that probably does not count because it is not golf.

The guy running the program did not even wear the Bass Pro green shirts and I think he always looked the best of all.

I think I saw some sandals but need to go back to check. Are you people aware that there are some really good trail quality sandals available now?

Those guys looked far nicer than a bunch of panty-waisted golfers.

I do not wear shorts, jeans, or sandals but I will defend your right and choice to do so, but I will not defend your right to wear torn, ripped, or dirty clothing or crocks or flip flops.

I wear collared shirts but think clean neat T-shirts are fine for field archery, certainly more attractive than some of the manufacturers walking billboard shirts. Are they trying to copy race car drivers.


----------



## WhitBri

I think a dress code is necessary. Far too many look like bums. Also I personally don't like the "*******" tshirts with some stupid saying like "if its brown its down" or anything else dumb. Maybe allow manufacturer or plain colored tees only. Jeans and all have to be clean and neat. 
It's nice enough they let any joe shoot national events the least you can do is dress decent. Bad enough I have to put up with general disrespect on the line at least dress like you care or don't show up.


----------



## archerpap

montigre said:


> :thumbs_up Again, more good points!!
> 
> Maybe another thread should be started regarding the lack of major outside-of-archery sponsorhips. I mean, even the skateboarders have Mountain Dew working on their side and that sport has taken off to the stratosphere over the past decade or so... From those humble beginnings, the Winter and Summer X-Games have been created via ESPN's patronage that also showcase the other "fringe sports" of snowboarding, freestyle skiing, and motorcross along with the original skateboarding. Archery is definately doing something wrong on the marketing side of the game!!


You going to compare archery to a double backflip on a 215LB mx bike, or a 960 in a half pipe, be it board or snow, or a 90 foot triple?? It's called thrill seeking or risk taking. Most tune into that to see who crashes, just like watching Talladega or Daytona and waiting for the big one. Maybe we need to come up with some freestyle archery?? MX and SX have been on ESPN since the late 80's and 90's. Some World GPMX races at Unadilla were even on in the mid 80's. If you didn't race or follow it, you never knew it was on. Just had to stay up late to watch it.


----------



## montigre

FS560 said:


> Are you now the thread police?
> CarlIV has the right to voice his opinion and to do it in the tongue in cheek method that he did. I agree with him. Some of the opinions here are bordering on highly regimented dress code restrictions.
> This thing about footwear sounds like some of the Mayor Bloomberg nefarious crap from New York.
> One has only to look at homeowners associations (now the fourth level of government) to see how purportedly civilized people go off the deep end dreaming up rules to govern others. This whole attitude of high regimentation in the governing of others is the reason the directors balk at dress codes for the non pros.


No, Jim, I am not the thread police, but CarlV's response appeared not as a tongue-in-cheek addition to the discussion, but more as a thinly veiled attempt to undermine the good discourse that's been opened up about this most difficult subject. I may have read more into it, but it seemed rather disrespectful toward everyone who has been posting their honest opinions thus far.

So, what we now have is something along the lines of this:

To present NFAA archery competitions in a more favorable public light, at all Sectional, National, and NFAA-sanctioned events above the state level, all non-professional competitive archers shall wear slacks, jeans, cargo pants, capris, shorts or skirts that are clean, properly-fitting, and not torn. Shorts and skirts can be no shorter than two inches above the knee. Shirts and tops must cover the entire torso of the competitor when at full draw. T-shirts must be clean, untorn, of a solid color without logos or printing. Swimming suits, halter tops, cut-offs, and obscene or vulgar slogans or pictures on clothing are prohibited.

Crocs, flip-flops and similar types of non-athletic sandals are prohibited.

This dress code will not be enforced during practice sessions.

State and local competitions will not fall under the guidelines of this dress code.

In the event of inclement weather, appropriate outerwear is permissible as long as it does not violate the spirit of this rule.

Violations to the dress code will be enforced by the NFAA and may result in reprimand or disqualification from the event. Violations can be brought to the Tournament Chair/Representative or NFAA Representative by the Tournament Chair or any competitor.

Competitors may petition the Tournament Chair/ Representative for exemption to this rule only in cases of extreme hardship or necessity (ie lost/stolen luggage, medical appliances that requires alteration of clothing, etc.) Such a petition must be filed no less than 6 hours prior to the start of competition. In these cases the decision of the Tournament Chair is final.


----------



## montigre

archerpap said:


> You going to compare archery to a double backflip on a 215LB mx bike, or a 960 in a half pipe, be it board or snow, or a 90 foot triple?? It's called thrill seeking or risk taking. Most tune into that to see who crashes, just like watching Talladega or Daytona and waiting for the big one. Maybe we need to come up with some freestyle archery?? MX and SX have been on ESPN since the late 80's and 90's. Some World GPMX races at Unadilla were even on in the mid 80's. If you didn't race or follow it, you never knew it was on. Just had to stay up late to watch it.


You're right, the modern X-type sports are very exciting to watch, but I do remember their very humble beginnings--it was in the late 60s when skateboarding started re-gaining popularity among the "kids" and everyone would call anyone with a board a street thug or bum--they were even considered a lower life form than surfers (even though it was started by surfers) and the snow half-pipe work started out as a bunch hippie-type skiers in the late 70s who were considered to be disrespecting the sport by using super short skis and going down the slopes doing doughnuts and figure-of-eights, or even worse, going backwards. :mg: Hotdoggers we were called back then...lol!! Still, although archery does not have the same adrenalin effect that these sports currently have, the fact that major outside sponsorships lifted all of them from their fringe roots right into mainstream America is something the major archery organizations probably should take a closer look at.


----------



## FS560

Outside sponsorship would be grand and, of course, the frosting on the cake. Call me a pessimist if you want to, but this subject has been of constant attention for 30 to 40 years and little has been accomplished. At one time, although I cannot remember exactly when, NFAA paid, out of pro funds, to have a professional sports lobbyist to search for outside sponsor funding, with no tangible result.

Comparison to other sports is frustrating, especially since tournament archery is boring to other than archers.

The issues limiting exposure to outside sponsorship, in my opinion and not necessarily in this order of importance are these.

1. The base of our pyramid is not large enough to attract mainstream attention.
2. Our game is fragmented into too many different champions.
3. There are too many different game formats.
4. Attire could be more neat, clean, tasteful, and not ragged.

Now, therefore, how would these issues be solved? I can pontificate on each subject item above but the post would be so long that I would be competing with Tom for the longest posts.

But this thread is about dress code, item 4 above.

I think that a succinct definition of standards of attire should simply include clean, neat, untorn, tasteful, modest, and non-offensive. We are only talking here about cleaning up the tip of the pyramid. Any attempt at the state and local base likely would reduce the base, and that is back to item 1 above.


----------



## FS560

Maybe we need to simply enjoy our sport for the fun sport that it is.


----------



## brtesite

I think there was a guy name of Nichols or something like that who used to go into a town that was hosting a pro shoot & raise money. then some asked what he was getting out of it . end of story. Ask Frank he knows the story


----------



## SonnyThomas

FS560 said:


> Maybe we need to simply enjoy our sport for the fun sport that it is.


There you go. Use to go out with a bunch and we had fun. We didn't worry about the end score. We sure tried to beat up on each others arrows though. You didn't leave you bow all that much, only if all went to the target at the same time - might have your stabilizer missing or have someone elses...if you could find your bow. If we could have had a tape recorder we'd been millionaires- solved the World's problems and sold bunches of stuff to Jeff Foxworthy


----------



## field14

brtesite said:


> I think there was a guy name of Nichols or something like that who used to go into a town that was hosting a pro shoot & raise money. then some asked what he was getting out of it . end of story. Ask Frank he knows the story


Different subject entirely, but I know of at least one tournament that is highly successful and going out and "raising money" from LOCAL people for the Championship Money Purse and there is nothing in it for those on the committee that do this 'pounding the bricks'. They do it because they want to see the tournament grow and to continue to be successful. They do it for the pride of accomplishment and self-satisfaction.
Don't say it cannot be done, because LOCAL people, if approached correctly are more than willing to contribute to a championship money purse, and will also give Door Prizes too!


----------



## montigre

So, getting back to the dress code, here's the latest installment with the latest recommendations:

To present NFAA archery competitions in a more favorable public light, at all Sectional, National, and NFAA-sanctioned events above the state level, all non-professional competitive archers shall wear clothing that is clean, properly-fitting, and not torn. Shirts and tops must cover the entire torso of the competitor when at full draw.
Swimming suits, halter tops, cut-offs, and clothing with obscene or vulgar slogans or pictures are prohibited. Crocs, flip-flops and similar types of non-athletic sandals are prohibited.

This dress code will not be enforced during practice sessions.

State and local competitions will not fall under the guidelines of this dress code.

Violations to the dress code will be enforced by the NFAA and may result in reprimand or disqualification from the event. Violations can be brought to the Tournament Chair/Representative or NFAA Representative by the Tournament Chair or any competitor. Tournament fees will not be refunded if disqualified for violation of the dress code.

Competitors may petition the Tournament Chair/Representative for exemption to this rule in cases of hardship or necessity (ie lost/stolen luggage, medical appliances that requires alteration of clothing, etc.) Such a petition must be filed no less than 6 hours prior to the start of competition. The decision of the Tournament Chair/Representative is final.


----------



## CarlV

montigre said:


> No, Jim, I am not the thread police, but CarlV's response appeared not as a tongue-in-cheek addition to the discussion, but more as a thinly veiled attempt to undermine the good discourse that's been opened up about this most difficult subject. I may have read more into it, but it seemed rather disrespectful toward everyone who has been posting their honest opinions thus far.


I disagree with any type of "dress code" that you are proposing is forced upon the general core of archers and you find it offensive that I disagree with you?

This is somehow, in your opinion, "disrespectful" to everyone?

Then you decide that you CAN be a thread police and call me out. You don't want to do this. 

Not the thread police? I say you are trying to be. That's my "honest opinion."

Does my opinion somehow not appear "honest" to you? I assure you that I am being completely honest when I say (feel) that any type of censorship in attire is going way beyond what any archery organization should attempt to force upon it's members or participants.

I recognize that your ideas disagree and respect your right to have a disagreeing opinion.

It's also "my honest opinion" that your suggested dress code is a bunch of hogwash that, and if approved as written, would be impossible to enforce and simply be another rule that would be detrimental to our efforts to improve participation in our sport.

I really wish I could write as eloquently as you do.


----------



## montigre

CarlV, I respect your dissenting opinion and ask, do you feel it appropriate for many competitors to attend a sectional, national, Vegas, or Redding shoot wearing dirty, tattered, foul-smelling clothing with with the words "Eat Me" blazoned on their backs for the world to see? 

Do you feel this projects the ideals of the sport that are held by the majority of the competitors? Do you feel this type of dress should continue to be allowed to represent the core archers that make up the NFAA? 

If you do, then we will simply have to agree to disagree, and that is okay; *however*, if you do not, then what do you propose be done, outside of this or similar modest dress code for "upper-level" competitions, to correct this problem? What are some of your suggestions to improve the appearance and public acceptance of our sport to Joe Q Public who knows nothing about archery, yet may be turned off to trying the sport by the slovenly appearance of some of our competitors at these events? Don't just bash the ideas being presented, instead, provide some constructive recommendations for us to discuss. 

I emphasize again, this proposed dress code would have no impact on the local or state competitions, and thus would have very little, if any, impact on participation at the grass roots levels of the sport.


----------



## Arrowwood

> do you feel it appropriate for many competitors to attend a sectional, national, Vegas, or Redding shoot wearing dirty, tattered, foul-smelling clothing with with the words "Eat Me" blazoned on their backs for the world to see?


Do "many" (or any, for that matter) do this? I didn't see any at Mechanicsburg last year. Although, some were certainly dirty after the shoot. Probably foul-smelling too, but I didn't check.

I can think of lots more important things for the NFAA to focus on than how archers are dressed - I wouldn't mind seeing the directors, councilmen, and range officials dressed so that they can be identified easily, for example.


----------



## CarlV

Arrowwood said:


> Do "many" (or any, for that matter) do this? I didn't see any at Mechanicsburg last year. Although, some were certainly dirty after the shoot. Probably foul-smelling too, but I didn't check.
> 
> I can think of lots more important things for the NFAA to focus on than how archers are dressed - I wouldn't mind seeing the directors, councilmen, and range officials dressed so that they can be identified easily, for example.


I didn't see any dressed like that at Mechanicsburg last year either, nor at Darrington last month. Didn't see any at either of the two times I attended the indoor nationals at Louisville either. I agree....where's the need for a "code" to dress by.

Maybe Redding? Probably should simply self regulate on a shoot by shoot basis.


----------



## montigre

Double post


----------



## montigre

Arrowwood said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing the directors, councilmen, and range officials dressed so that they can be identified easily, for example.


I did at Mechanicsburg the last 2 years it was held there--in 2009 there was one guy (a guest shooter) who shot barefooted and in a loose-fitting, oversized tank top. I did take poetic liberty with the phrase used in my example just to get a point across as I do not use that type of language--it was pretty crude. 

Now, making it so the tournament and range officials are easily identified is a great idea. I have not shot the indoor venues yet, so don't know exactly what they wear there, I thought it may be like an umpire shirt or something, but at the outdoor shoots, I know you cannot tell an official from a spectator....


----------



## Wyotarget

The issue I see with not allowing camo, is that if we are to chase national television the majority of archers are hunters plane and simple. If we are not allowed to wear camo it makes us seem as though we are trying to upstage the everyday archer we are trying to gains attention.


----------



## field14

Wyotarget said:


> The issue I see with not allowing camo, is that if we are to chase national television the majority of archers are hunters plane and simple. If we are not allowed to wear camo it makes us seem as though we are trying to upstage the everyday archer we are trying to gains attention.


Just tossing this out there...but from the TV and promotional aspect of it...the MEDIA has become pretty much "anti-hunter". The average person out there that may try to watch an archery tournament on TV would immediately pick up on CAMO being tied to HUNTING and get the wrong idea completely about what the tournament really is promoting...and flip the channel.
Non-hunters are mostly turned off when they see people out and about dressed in camo; they perceive them as game killers, 'red-necks' or whatever stereotype they tie to camo. They certainly don't tie camo into competitive TARGET shooting even if/when the event is a "target" shoot.
You don't see much camo at IBO or ASA either...and not full camo either. Just doesn't go well with a "target shooting" image.
The people that know archery are NOT the ones to "target" for TV time; they would watch archery anyways; the "target audience" is the non-hunter, non archer...and you don't "target" them by dressing up in camo or gilley suits, period. Target events are shooting PAPER, and should NOT be tied to hunting or the hunting side of the game of TARGET archery.
field14 (tom D.)


----------



## ccwilder3

field14 said:


> Just tossing this out there...but from the TV and promotional aspect of it...the MEDIA has become pretty much "anti-hunter". The average person out there that may try to watch an archery tournament on TV would immediately pick up on CAMO being tied to HUNTING and get the wrong idea completely about what the tournament really is promoting...and flip the channel.
> Non-hunters are mostly turned off when they see people out and about dressed in camo; they perceive them as game killers, 'red-necks' or whatever stereotype they tie to camo. They certainly don't tie camo into competitive TARGET shooting even if/when the event is a "target" shoot.
> You don't see much camo at IBO or ASA either...and not full camo either. Just doesn't go well with a "target shooting" image.
> The people that know archery are NOT the ones to "target" for TV time; they would watch archery anyways; the "target audience" is the non-hunter, non archer...and you don't "target" them by dressing up in camo or gilley suits, period. Target events are shooting PAPER, and should NOT be tied to hunting or the hunting side of the game of TARGET archery.
> field14 (tom D.)


So whats the animal round then? Or the HUNTER round?

The last number I read was over 4 million bowhunters in America. Would you rather appeal to 4 million people who own a bow as opposed to 20 % of the population that doesn't like hunting. (Its holding at around 80% of Americans that do support hunting.)

I always see some camo at every ASA and IBO I have attended. Realtree is a major sponsor for the ASA.


----------



## Arrowwood

Camo ain't hurting A&E's "Duck Dynasty", as far as media goes... if tv crews show up at an nfaa event, I have a pretty good idea that the cameras will be pointed at the pros, no matter what anyone else wears. No camo??? Start with "Uncle" Ted Nugent on the NFAA's photo gallery, last updated in 2010.

If the Nfaa is concerned about the image it's projecting, how about putting _next_ year's Vegas shoot poster on the website instead of 2012? Or not burying the styles and equipment rules in the "documents" tab in the constitution and by-laws - it's awfully hard for a beginner or an outsider to learn what the games are about. The website is deadly boring, and I _like_ the nfaa. It's like they're not even trying..


----------



## hdracer

Arrowwood said:


> *Camo ain't hurting A&E's "Duck Dynasty", as far as media goes... *if tv crews show up at an nfaa event, I have a pretty good idea that the cameras will be pointed at the pros, no matter what anyone else wears. No camo??? Start with "Uncle" Ted Nugent on the NFAA's photo gallery, last updated in 2010.
> 
> If the Nfaa is concerned about the image it's projecting, how about putting _next_ year's Vegas shoot poster on the website instead of 2012? Or not burying the styles and equipment rules in the "documents" tab in the constitution and by-laws - it's awfully hard for a beginner or an outsider to learn what the games are about. The website is deadly boring, and I _like_ the nfaa. It's like they're not even trying..


Maybe have a few of the top pros act like Si or Willie or Jas? That's what brings in the viewers not the camo...how about "Reality Archer"? (said tongue in cheek)

I'm pretty surprised about the adamant stance taken by some that there will be no dress code from state level up, that if there was is couldn't be enforced (???). The reasoning behind such a statement leaves me baffled. It is not the end of the world and should be a very easy change to bring about but is pointless if the directors refuse to even consider it.


----------



## field14

ccwilder3 said:


> So whats the animal round then? Or the HUNTER round?
> 
> The last number I read was over 4 million bowhunters in America. Would you rather appeal to 4 million people who own a bow as opposed to 20 % of the population that doesn't like hunting. (Its holding at around 80% of Americans that do support hunting.)
> 
> I always see some camo at every ASA and IBO I have attended. Realtree is a major sponsor for the ASA.


First off, do you even know what a HUNTER round target looks like? IT has NOTHING to do with "hunting"...white dot on a black background with the scoring rings(lines) the same size as on the field target.

When I talk camo...I'm talking FULL camo, not just a cap or something. You don't see "full camo" at ASA events. In addition, the ASA HAS a dress code, too.

A bunch of people running around in full camo, muscle shirts, t-shirts with vulgar or inappropropiate verbage, untied shoes, and the like won't be put onto TV and if they are, it would be like the stuff we see concerning "Wal-Martians"; that sure wouldn't be seen in a positive light by those considering joining in with archery. All it takes is a few people that don't give a rat how they appear in public and the negative image and impression is formed.
Just look at how people go out in public these days, some of whom have no sense of common decency at all. Pajamas in public? Do you wanna see that at a major archery tournament?
There are limits, and unfortunately, there are people that will go beyond them...and since the NFAA chooses NOT to have any sort of limits (well maybe they'd say something about someone out there in their birthday suits), anything can happen and what's to be said/enforced about it without some sort of code? Leaving it up to the people? Too many don't give a rat and will do whatever they feel like just to get the attention or the "I'll show them attitude."

field14


----------



## TNMAN

The truth is that field archery was designed as hunting practice. Would love to see Toxey help sponsor Outdoor Nats. It's a great fit.


----------



## itbeso

archer_nm said:


> This will happen when :flypig:


Bob, as an Nfaa councilman, you are part of the problem. The Nfaa shouldn't be run by the archers. It should be run by the Nfaa. Archers come and go, some stay just long enough to get something changed then leave the sport. Get a damn committee in place to make permanent rules, the enforce them, for gods sake.


----------



## giltyone

laws and rules are only created because some stoopid person needs to be protected from their own stupidity. 

However, I'm all for removing the warning labels and let Darwinism occur -- just sayin'

Dress codes have been put in place to ensure a level of professionalism is desired to represent the best of the sport or event.


----------



## carlosii

i'm going to unsubscribe this thread.


----------



## archer_nm

Ben, I know you will understand what I am about to say but the whole point is that this dress code (including the Pro's) has been talked about for at least 5 years and the only reason the Pro issue went through was due to the Pro Chair being a good salesman. I witnessed plenty of Director make the statement that this is ok for the Pro Division, but we will never pass this for the Non-Pro's. As far as you saying that I am part of the problem you are so far off base, I can not get a committee together, the Directors make all of the changes in the C&B and thus are the ones that would request that one is put together. As far as the council we run the day to day activities of the NFAA which includes the office staff, the NFAA was designed to be ran by the Archers through their Directors and I agree this is the way it should be. Tell your director to come up with an agenda item to be included in the next meeting.


----------

