# I am my worst enemy



## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Have I ever mentioned how much I hate indoor shooting. 

I have shot a handfull of vegas rounds so far this month with pretty poor results even for me. Avg. 297 16X. So I am going to fix it. I decide that I am going to shoot scoring X as ten and so on. First round on Sunday I score a 283 which translated to a 297 15X. Plenty room for improvement.

Last night during warm up I work with a blank bail just working my release. After a dozen arrows I am happy. So I put up a clean target. First round of scoring goes 10-9-10 thats the X as 10 and the 10 ring a 9. Second round is 10-9-10. The next 7 rounds are 10-10-10 with nothing even coming close to the next ring just center punching it. WOW a PB tonight this is awsome. That's all I am thinking about. Last round 10-8-8. :angry: The second arrow may could have been a judge called in but I never give my arrows a chance if it's close it's out and the last arrow was not even close, both out the top. So I finish with a 294 or a 298 26X conventional score.

I am happy with the X count but I really need to disengage my brain. I want to have all the thoughts so I can simulate as much pressure as possible but I need to not let it effect the shot. I will conquer this indoor game......someday. :shade:


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## archerpap (Apr 24, 2006)

I've been practicing a lot with 2314's for some FITA events, and have also changed my scoring methods to compensate for their scoring. I've actually been pounding out a lot of vegas 600's with those small arrows, but can still only muster about a 23/24 average X count. I think my best score has been 588(48X's). I know at least 5-6 more of those "9's" are X's when it comes down to breaking out the 27's, and it's a matter of not thinking I can just hit an X with only hitting the 10 ring. Total concentration on the X ring!!!!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> Have I ever mentioned how much I hate indoor shooting.
> 
> I have shot a handfull of vegas rounds so far this month with pretty poor results even for me. Avg. 297 16X. So I am going to fix it. I decide that I am going to shoot scoring X as ten and so on. First round on Sunday I score a 283 which translated to a 297 15X. Plenty room for improvement.
> 
> ...


Let's look at something up above (in red and underlined). WHY are you training yourself to NEED a dozen arrows or so "blank bale" before you are "Happy" and start scoring? I am of the opinion that before long, that "dozen arrows or so" will become TWO dozen arrows or so, then a half-hour of "warm ups", etc.

When you go to MOST major tournaments...you get TWO practice ends before official scoring starts; NOT a couple of dozen shots or so. Sure, you might be able to go across the street and "warm up" for a while before you line time starts...but by the time you put up the equipment, go to your designated line, etc...that "warm up" is gone and you've stiffened right back up again.

I also feel that people are practicing into psyching themselves into NEEDING 12 or 20 or 30 shots before they are "loosened up" and ready to go. That isn't going to cut it in a tournament. What a person NEEDS to do is train themselves to be ready to go on the FIRST shot...not 12 or 20 or 30 shots into the scoring round!

On a field round, you are sometimes lucky to get ONE practice target (4 shots) before scoring starts! You have no choice which distance you start on either. A person that has trained themselves to NEED a ton of practice shots AND those are taken at short distances, has set themselves up for a bad start...before they have even started to shoot the tournament!

I try to teach my students to learn to be ready to go after only some stretching exercises and maybe only a few "pull-backs" and "let-downs" before they SCORE. In other words, the first arrow loosed off the bow...is for SCORE. The results are normally much better when they have trained themselves this way. There is no "warm up", the pressure is ON from the get go. Warm up is a luxury, and NOT a NEED or REQUIREMENT.

By teaching yourself you NEED to shoot a lot of arrows to "get into the groove" you are setting yourself up for some pretty crappy starts!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

Hey Tom - at the Presley event what is our warm up opportunity before our lane time? Two ends and go live???


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

That is an observation however I disagree. In Vegas we get 5 practice rounds before we start scoring. That's the half hour before then the 2 official practice rounds. In that time you can shoot as many arrows as you want in 2.5 minutes. In outdoor shoots it is hit or miss as to how much time you get, depends on when you show up. I don't need any arrows to worm up. I too believe that you should be able to start off right away. I take the time allowed to work on the feel of how I want the shot to be executed. Then I carry that through out. If I don't feel it I don't shoot it.

I practice injecting about as much pressure on myself as I can. It is never the same as in a tournament but it is something. I need to work on my brain. The mechanics are there. If I can shoot 23 X's in a row then I can shoot 25, 30 even 60 in a row. 

If you think you might miss then you already have.

When I go to Vegas this year I'm tellin Dave, Reo, Tim, Chance and the rest of them to get off the practice lanes cuz it's gonna make em dependent on practice arrows. :tongue::tongue::tongue::shade:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

JayMc said:


> Hey Tom - at the Presley event what is our warm up opportunity before our lane time? Two ends and go live???


Yes, two practice ENDS (not "rounds") before official scoring begins.

Everyone must understand that we are totally limited on space and time between each shooting line. Unlike Vegas, we don't have multiple rooms to use for this or for that. 
Thus, if we allow those shooting the 7:30AM shooting line to get additional "practice time" before their "official practice ends" and the other lines don't get any "practice time", then the tournament immediately becomes UNFAIR for those not on the 7:30AM line. If we give 1/2 hour BEFORE "official practice", then the line times have to be moved LATER...and the last line would be starting at 7PM, not finishing until 10PM. Then, people will pee and moan because the SCORES and LANE ASSIGNMENTS aren't up and posted before MIDNIGHT! 

It is going to be tough enough to get those scores posted complete with line times and lane assignments before 10:30PM as it is, let alone if we push things back to give "practice times" of 1/2 hour PLUS the two "official practice ENDS" before scoring begins.

In addition, our Line Judges and Line Captain need time to "prepare" the lanes, distribute the scorecards, pencils, and clipboards and replenish bunker pins, etc. for the next shooting line. If people are shooting arrows on the bales, then it is impossible to prep for the next shooting line time.

Sure glad we don't give two practice "ROUNDS" before scoring begins...or we'd be there SHOOTING until past midnight, since two practice "rounds" before scoring means 120 arrows of PRACTICE and then you score....hahahahaha.

Everyone knows this going in and it is the SAME for everyone.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Yes I meant "ENDS"


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> Yes I meant "ENDS"




I know you did. I just couldn't resist, :thumbs_up:darkbeer::shade::shade:

field14


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Good lord field.....how long does it take you all to shoot 60 arrows up there?

How can LAS, indoor Nats, and Vegas run all those lines and be done before the chickens go to sleep and your talking about shooting at 10:30 with warm up? :noidea:

LAS runs 3 lines...on Sat we are done.....eat dinner....have the raffle and have the CD shoot and are still in the hotel with :darkbeer: by 10:00 or so 

But I do agree on the grabbin' your bow and being ready out of the box....been to several NAA shoots and the only arrows you get to shoot are the ones in the 2 practice ends....5 days in a row at Nats all I shot warm up wise was the 4 arrows on the first target.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Good lord field.....how long does it take you all to shoot 60 arrows up there?
> 
> How can LAS, indoor Nats, and Vegas run all those lines and be done before the chickens go to sleep and your talking about shooting at 10:30 with warm up? :noidea:
> 
> ...


IF we allow 30 minutes practice AND then have to prep the shooting lines for them....then we cannot possibly run our lines that close together and be comfortable if there are delays or equipment failures and makeup ends have to be completed. Thus, since we are shooting all four lines on one day....the last line would most likely be moved from 5:30PM to say 7:00PM.....allowing 3 hours for an NFAA BLUE FACE round (which is cutting it CLOSE!), that means they are done at 10PM. 
Then, yours truly, along with the helpers has to get those scores entered, and then sort it out for the entire tournament field, assign the shooting lanes, check that, and then print them out....all this with people crying and moaning that the scores and lane assignments for SUNDAY aren't posted....before the last line is even done shooting.

I can remember sitting on the floor at Vegas for HOURS waiting for the next day's shooting lane and location assignments.

However, we don't have to worry about the practice time thing, since to keep it even-steven, EVERYONE gets their two official practice ends (4 minutes per end on Saturday, and 2 1/2 minutes per end on Sunday), and then we start scoring. This way, nobody gets any more or less "practice time" than anyone else.

I know that VEGAS isn't done before the "chickens go to sleep"; at least they sure as heck weren't the last time I was there year before last....haha.

This LONG PRACTICE TIME thing has only recently gotten to be such a big deal for people....Then to add to this, they are complaining about having to shoot 30 arrows without a "break" on the Vegas round, or 60 arrows without a break on the NFAA round.
This is very problematic in leagues of late...They want a 20 minute "smoke break" after the completion of the 6th scoring end! SOME have even asked to shorten the round to 30 arrows because 60 is to many to shoot at one sitting!!!!

field14


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I forgot you guys do 4 lines instead of 3 :doh:


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> I forgot you guys do 4 lines instead of 3 :doh:



Why don't you load up and "come get you some"? TN Archer and JayMaximus are gonna take Illinois by storm!!!!

He's there to win and I'm there to have a good time :darkbeer:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> I forgot you guys do 4 lines instead of 3 :doh:


Not a problem, Hornet.

We figured by eliminating the Friday line (which was filling less than half-full) and adding instead the 5:30PM line on Saturday, we would offer more opportunity for shooters to attend. This did indeed work very well for us.

Now, instead of two lines not filling up, we only have the one...that being the Saturday 7:30AM line. The other line times, as we all know have been full up for weeks!

We are going to take some steps in the next day or two to hopefully help get a few others to attend.

We know that practice time is nice to have, but also, we understand that an advance practice time situation can be inequitable. If everyone gets only 2 official practice ends and that is all, then it is totally equal across the board, regardless of shooting line time.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

JayMc said:


> Why don't you load up and "come get you some"? TN Archer and JayMaximus are gonna take Illinois by storm!!!!
> 
> He's there to win and I'm there to have a good time :darkbeer:


Hey, you are right! a The "Hornet" hasn't signed up...and there are still slots open for the 7:30AM Saturday shooting line.

C'mon, Hornet, ante up and as JayMc says, "Come get you some":shade::thumbs_up:thumbs_up:darkbeer:

Y'all need to speak with the weather gurus, weather gods, and do a "storm avoidance dance" to make sure we have GOOD WEATHER for the entire weekend...from Thursday Thru Monday....:shade::thumbs_up

field14 (Tom D.)


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

field14 said:


> We know that practice time is nice to have, but also, we understand that an advance practice time situation can be inequitable. If everyone gets only 2 official practice ends and that is all, then it is totally equal across the board, regardless of shooting line time.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)



I'm putting this bad boy on my utility trailer and charging $5/head to shoot for 10min in your parking lot!!!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

JayMc said:


> I'm putting this bad boy on my utility trailer and charging $5/head to shoot for 10min in your parking lot!!!


Nice target stand.

Illinois...First weekend of December....OUTDOORS?????? Of course, if a "tropical heat wave" comes thru, then perhaps it might be decent enough outside for to do that, hahaha.

I positively LIKE your shooting bale setup, however!!

field14 (Tom D.)


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

JayMc said:


> I'm putting this bad boy on my utility trailer and charging $5/head to shoot for 10min in your parking lot!!!


Boy those targets look familiar...I plan on shooting a lot of indoor and as many outdoor shoots as I can make it to next year. Considering the plant I work at is closing december 30th, I should have some time on my hands. Now I haven't done much more than some 3D shoots in the past because of my work schedule, but I am open to any advice on how to shoot these type of events. 

As with the OP I've found out recently that I am my own worst enemy when standing on the line recently. For me my form is not a consistent as it needs to be.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Tom you have lost your mind....

No way I am coming out there....I am not paying money to shoot at 7:30 in the morning....which would be even earlier for me....since your not on the East Coast. 

I was thinking about shooting the Championship class at Vegas to avoid that crap.....that is the worst line ever....

But since my birthday is close to the shoot....if you guys want to give me a good birthday present I would shoot at 7:30 :wink:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> Tom you have lost your mind....
> 
> No way I am coming out there....I am not paying money to shoot at 7:30 in the morning....which would be even earlier for me....since your not on the East Coast.
> 
> ...


Well, ya see Hornet.....there was plenty of TIME given for those that wanted the earlier lines to sign up.

Those that signed up first...it was first-come, first-served, got their pickin's of line time until the line filled.

There is only so much space available, and so many hours in a day. People wouldn't USE the Friday evening line because of two nights in a motel, and wouldn't USE the Saturday early line because of BEAUTY REST interference. Thus, the later line on Saturday evening. IMPOSSIBLE to shoot a 8:00PM or 8:30PM shooting line on Sauturday evening...so...7:30AM it is.

If a person WANTS to shoot, what is left is 7:30AM. ALL tournaments have an early line on Saturday, and Sunday...only so many hours in a day, and if the hosts go later...then you get out of there later...and people pee and moan about that too.

It is a no win situation for the host in trying to accommodate people, and it is no wonder that there are so few shoots to attend....seems that you cannot please people no matter what.

I hope you understand that those early lines MUST BE THERE, plain and simple, and people either choose to shoot the early line where there are openings, or they don't get to participate.

Tom D. (field14)


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Too much detail there f14....we know why the early lines are there....

I am not getting up to shoot at 7:30 for an indoor round......I am talking about me. People always find something to complain about. Tell them to shut up or don't shoot. :wink:


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Ok I don't know which is worse for me. A 296 with 26X or the 300 14X I shot last night??????????? I know which one holds more weight on the score sheet but WT... The other day every shot went off perfect....cept the last 2. Yesterday I felt like I was just flingin arrows...not strugglin, not trying too hard just throwin em down range. I should be happy that it's a 300 but the measely 14X is dissapointing. Maybe it's because I made my reservations for Vegas yesterday and now I know that I'm stuck going. 

Hey Hornet, I been meaning to ask. What were the targets at Mechanicsburg made out of?


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

place the same 'mental value' on each arrow. dont think of things like what end you're on or how many arrows left in a round. just shoot each arrow as if it was the first one.

when you start thinkin about the last end or two, you start getting anxious and just want em to go and get it over with.


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

rock monkey said:


> place the same 'mental value' on each arrow. dont think of things like what end you're on or how many arrows left in a round. just shoot each arrow as if it was the first one.
> 
> when you start thinkin about the last end or two, you start getting anxious and just want em to go and get it over with.


That's SO easy to say. For somebody who is extremely Type A (like me) the brain is in the way at all times.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

JayMc said:


> That's SO easy to say. For somebody who is extremely Type A (like me) the brain is in the way at all times.


there is no think.....do or do not

the more the conscious mind is used, the more it interferes. you have to find a way to 'disconnect' the conscious thought process from the total process. how? to each their own.


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

rock monkey said:


> there is no think.....do or do not
> 
> the more the conscious mind is used, the more it interferes. you have to find a way to 'disconnect' the conscious thought process from the total process. how? to each their own.


You sound like my coach 

I'm trying!


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

USNarcher said:


> Ok I don't know which is worse for me. A 296 with 26X or the 300 14X I shot last night??????????? I know which one holds more weight on the score sheet but WT... The other day every shot went off perfect....cept the last 2. Yesterday I felt like I was just flingin arrows...not strugglin, not trying too hard just throwin em down range. I should be happy that it's a 300 but the measely 14X is dissapointing. Maybe it's because I made my reservations for Vegas yesterday and now I know that I'm stuck going.
> 
> Hey Hornet, I been meaning to ask. What were the targets at Mechanicsburg made out of?


For me, I want the 300 on the vegas face. I have been shooting a few 299's but no 300. Last year I was shooting your "296 26X" alot. I was very happy with the X count and knew it was just between my ears why I wasnt hitting the 300. This year its the opposite, I am scoring great and my X count is pooh pooh. Stupid vegas faces


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

VA Vince said:


> For me, I want the 300 on the vegas face. I have been shooting a few 299's but no 300. Last year I was shooting your "296 26X" alot. I was very happy with the X count and knew it was just between my ears why I wasnt hitting the 300. This year its the opposite, I am scoring great and my X count is pooh pooh. Stupid vegas faces


Personally I think the target is just smarter than you!!!!!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

X Hunter said:


> Personally I think the target is just smarter than you!!!!!


It is either the target, specifically the babyX or the "10-ring" that keeps moving out of the way, OR, the ARROWS have TARGET PANIC...

You see, my theory is that the ARROWS are what has target panic...that is to say...when they see they are about to impact the baby-X or the "10-ring"...they get nervous and duck so that they don't hit it....:shade::shade: It is like they think that the 10-ring or babyX are PRIVATE PROPERTY and they'll be charged with tresspassing or something:shade::darkbeer:

field14 (Tom D.)


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

field14 said:


> It is either the target, specifically the babyX or the "10-ring" that keeps moving out of the way, OR, the ARROWS have TARGET PANIC...
> 
> You see, my theory is that the ARROWS are what has target panic...that is to say...when they see they are about to impact the baby-X or the "10-ring"...they get nervous and duck so that they don't hit it....:shade::shade: It is like they think that the 10-ring or babyX are PRIVATE PROPERTY and they'll be charged with tresspassing or something:shade::darkbeer:
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Mabey(most likely) in most cases your right.....BUT in this case I think the target really is smarter than Vince!!!!!


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

X Hunter said:


> Mabey(most likely) in most cases your right.....BUT in this case I think the target really is smarter than Vince!!!!!


Watch it youngin, Sunday evening I am going to the club to beat down that vegas face. Gonna teach it a lesson.......


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> Ok I don't know which is worse for me. A 296 with 26X or the 300 14X I shot last night??????????? I know which one holds more weight on the score sheet but WT... The other day every shot went off perfect....cept the last 2. Yesterday I felt like I was just flingin arrows...not strugglin, not trying too hard just throwin em down range. I should be happy that it's a 300 but the measely 14X is dissapointing. Maybe it's because I made my reservations for Vegas yesterday and now I know that I'm stuck going.
> 
> Hey Hornet, I been meaning to ask. What were the targets at Mechanicsburg made out of?



Which would I rather shoot.....the 296 26Xs.  You made 4 loose shots.....vs IMO 16. 


If it's LAS that's a 322 half vs a 316....repeat that in the 2nd half and the 322 will get you in the cut....the 316 will have you watching. :wink:

The targets at Mechanicsburg were a little bit of everything......every type of target I have ever shot on a field course or a practice range were there.


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

VA Vince said:


> Watch it youngin, Sunday evening I am going to the club to beat down that vegas face. Gonna teach it a lesson.......


Good luck with that!!!


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

X Hunter said:


> Good luck with that!!!


You drunk already?


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

VA Vince said:


> You drunk already?


Not yet but it's still early!!!!!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> No way I am coming out there....I am not paying money to shoot at 7:30 in the morning....which would be even earlier for me....since your not on the East Coast.
> I was thinking about shooting the Championship class at Vegas to avoid that crap.....that is the worst line ever.... :wink:


Think you oughta go, Hornet. You would actually be shooting at 8:30 your time...they're an hour behind Eastern time. Just think, you're gonna get an extra hour sleep if you go up there.

I know you're not trying to ease your way out of this by confusing the issuse...surely.:shade:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

The clock would still say 7:30....and I don't have any desire to shoot before 10:00 indoors....ukey:

I barely like indoors as it is....so shooting early isn't gonna happen.


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

USNarcher said:


> Ok I don't know which is worse for me. A 296 with 26X or the 300 14X I shot last night??????????? I know which one holds more weight on the score sheet but WT... The other day every shot went off perfect....cept the last 2. *Yesterday I felt like I was just flingin arrows.*..not strugglin, not trying too hard just throwin em down range. I should be happy that it's a 300 but the measely 14X is dissapointing. Maybe it's because I made my reservations for Vegas yesterday and now I know that I'm stuck going.
> 
> Hey Hornet, I been meaning to ask. What were the targets at Mechanicsburg made out of?



*That is the problem Sailor...."Complacency"......that is why we find so many arrowheads......*

.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

GOT LUCKY said:


> *That is the problem Sailor...."Complacency"......that is why we find so many arrowheads......*
> 
> .


HAHAHAHA....so when might we see you gracing the archery venues again....at least west of the Mississippi. :shade:


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## GOT LUCKY (Apr 30, 2005)

USNarcher said:


> HAHAHAHA....so when might we see you gracing the archery venues again....at least west of the Mississippi. :shade:


*
Just as soon as you pay your taxes to fund the FED'S Budget for us Contractors....:teeth:

When you going to grace the LAS Tournament??????????*


.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

Vegas is all that I can swing for indoor. I have Redding, NAA Field and NFAA field for outdoors. Both fields in Washington.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

I agree you are your own worst enemy. :shade: Sorry Matt couldn't resist.


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