# PSE Levitate... Here you go! First build. Real numbers.



## skyshark1985 (Apr 23, 2021)

That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

To each his own, it‘s a looker IMO. 

Owning what I consider to be the ultimate hunting bow, the Mach 1, I look forward to trying this new edition.
Thanks for sharing, the gray looks fantastic.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Similar looking riser to Mach 1, but improved bow in basically every aspect. I think it's a bad ass looking bow, and fast.


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## 603Scott (Aug 6, 2020)

That gray is mean. Almost thankful it's not a 34-35 ATA or I'd step over my mother to get one.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

skyshark1985 said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


I think it looks great


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## Ebaybow (May 24, 2010)

How many months is the delay on the availability date?

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## Danilo13 (Feb 6, 2020)

That grey is sick!!! I love it.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

I guess that settles it. Dudley loves Dudley's bow!!! Amazing.


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## rwk83 (Mar 27, 2019)

Ebaybow said:


> How many months is the delay on the availability date?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


some dealers that preordered have them available today 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hoskeeee (Jul 3, 2021)

Whenever I’m in the market for a new bow this one is on the top of my list


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

rwk83 said:


> some dealers that preordered have them available today
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Who?


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

SHPoet said:


> Who?


Lancaster Archery has some, I was just there.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

SHPoet said:


> Who?


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## North Park (Jan 14, 2014)

SHPoet said:


> Who?


A bunch of different PSE dealers have posted on Facebook today that they have the Levitate in stock.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

Two grey ones, think there was a green one as well.









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## favoriteflannel (Apr 21, 2019)

55:41
78lbs
389.4g-342fps
529g-298fps


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## colinGarchery (Aug 17, 2020)

Anyone know what the msrp is gonna be?


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## aklax11 (Dec 8, 2019)

Not familiar with pse but Is the riser grip the standard grip or?


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## Buckhorn70 (Dec 5, 2004)

I see they do not have 65 pound limbs. I wonder if the bows are going to run “hot”. Are the 60 pounders going to clock in at 63 and 70’s in at 73?

I like to be between 64-67 pounds.

Also….. speed comes from somewhere. Wonder how smooth those Cams will be?


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

I’ll have two in my shop tomorrow. Can’t wait to play with it.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

I'd like to hear feedback on what it's like to shoot


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

While its great to see numbers, take them with a grain of salt. It is effectively coming from pse.

I also want to see what it does at 70# 30" draw, from some one that does not have a vested intrest in the company.


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## Daljwil (Feb 16, 2020)

They grey is so cool, I agree 2-3 more inches ATA and boy oh boy......... the price tag though?!


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## ndfb35 (Oct 12, 2016)

Daljwil said:


> They grey is so cool, I agree 2-3 more inches ATA and boy oh boy......... the price tag though?!


The bow is 39" in total length. The Mach 1 is 37.5"... so there is your extra inches.


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## Rev44 (Dec 19, 2008)

colinGarchery said:


> Anyone know what the msrp is gonna be?


1899

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## Jonesy72 (Oct 5, 2021)

$1899...ouch


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## colinGarchery (Aug 17, 2020)

$1899.... wow


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Gonna see a lot of complaints about price from the same people that constantly complain about stuff being made overseas. I find it hilarious. Still struggling to see what people expect…


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## modernwarfare3 (Sep 10, 2012)

Mathias said:


> To each his own, it‘s a looker IMO.
> 
> Owning what I consider to be the ultimate hunting bow, the Mach 1, I look forward to trying this new edition.
> Thanks for sharing, the gray looks fantastic.


 But it is $1899.00?? wth! i would not pay that much for this bow. Spend that much you might as well get a Daniel Defense M4.lol


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## colinGarchery (Aug 17, 2020)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Gonna see a lot of complaints about price from the same people that constantly complain about stuff being made overseas. I find it hilarious. Still struggling to see what people expect…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not complaining, if you can afford it go for it. I just can't 😅


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Keep in mind, that's the lowest price they can advertise... once it's out for a few months I doubt shops will be selling them for that. Some people have claimed they pre-ordered for way less so 🤷‍♂️


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..As soon as someone shoots one. I would like to know how the E2 cam is compared to the Evolve cam.Yeah from draw to anchor...I'm sure others would like to know also..Thanks


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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

Should have mine next week or early the following week. Will report back after I’ve had a chance to work with it.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..As soon as someone shoots one. I would like to know how the E2 cam is compared to the Evolve cam.Yeah from draw to anchor...I'm sure others would like to know also..Thanks


Given the speed, you'd have to think there's some hump... but who knows. The cams remind me of a Mathews V3 based on looks.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Gonna see a lot of complaints about price from the same people that constantly complain about stuff being made overseas. I find it hilarious. Still struggling to see what people expect…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If people buy it, its price correctly. If I can get a sub 6# bow in hunt config with everything but arrows, I would pay 2k. Not necessarily for this bow, but 2k to be 1.5ish lbs lighter. That's not even a question. The questions are, will it do what it says it will do and how does it shoot.

These are not questions we are going to get answered any time this year.


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## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

Well, I won't have to worry about the price tag since my DL (26.5")is too short for its lowest setting(27.5"). 

Looks neat, though. I like the smooth lines of the riser.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

Pse needs to come up with a quiver that mounts into the holes in the riser. A super light 2 piece, riser mounted quiver would be great.


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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

cs1983 said:


> Well, I won't have to worry about the price tag since my DL (26.5")is too short for its lowest setting(27.5").
> 
> Looks neat, though. I like the smooth lines of the riser.


Shorter draw length option supposed to be available after the first of the year


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## cs1983 (Jun 2, 2018)

Adamsdjr said:


> Shorter draw length option supposed to be available after the first of the year


Well now I have to find a different reason to not spend 1900 bucks.


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## bloodtrail1 (Jan 22, 2003)

jo3st3 said:


> Given the speed, you'd have to think there's some hump... but who knows. The cams remind me of a Mathews V3 based on looks.


The Lancaster Archery video review said that there was a little bit of a hump in the draw. But, last I looked the video was gone, so no doubt Dudley didnt like the review and Lancaster had to pull the video review?


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## Gdjones67 (Apr 18, 2020)

Well for a cool $1899 you can have basically PSEs version of an old Bowtech destroyer 350. Only difference really is about 1/3 lb. spec wise there pretty much the same otherwise though. Dud didn’t design the Bowtech though so I’m sure that a probably where the price difference comes in.


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## Sudduth49 (Jul 30, 2020)

favoriteflannel said:


> 55:41
> 78lbs
> 389.4g-342fps
> 529g-298fps


What DL is that set at?


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## mritter465 (Jan 10, 2015)

Interesting design. Specs look good. Innovation is great for the industry.


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## rwk83 (Mar 27, 2019)

Sudduth49 said:


> What DL is that set at?


30.5


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## Detroit-1 (Nov 30, 2015)

Sorry but I don't beleave the speed.


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## favoriteflannel (Apr 21, 2019)

Detroit-1 said:


> Sorry but I don't beleave the speed.


I just repeat what the scale and the chrono says.


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## GrainofPain (Jul 31, 2020)

If I can get my hunting rig under 5lbs, it's worth the money to me. The Carbon is sourced domestically.

Curious to see how fast it slings arrows. Planning to run it at 77#, 30" DL, 530gr arrow


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## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

Rev44 said:


> 1899
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


$1899 is the MAP price.... MSRP is $2000+


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

bloodtrail1 said:


> The Lancaster Archery video review said that there was a little bit of a hump in the draw. But, last I looked the video was gone, so no doubt Dudley didnt like the review and Lancaster had to pull the video review?


In Dud’s bow build video there is clearly a hump when he’s shooting the bow. You can see him struggle a bit to get through the last couple inches of draw. Granted, he was shooting it at 77# so that may be a significant factor. ???


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

1/2 Bubble Off said:


> $1899 is the MAP price.... MSRP is $2000+


😮


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## Minnesotahunt3r (Jan 25, 2020)

Buckhorn70 said:


> I see they do not have 65 pound limbs. I wonder if the bows are going to run “hot”. Are the 60 pounders going to clock in at 63 and 70’s in at 73?
> 
> I like to be between 64-67 pounds.
> 
> Also….. speed comes from somewhere. Wonder how smooth those Cams will be?


It looks like they threw on a few more brass nocks compared to the Mach's. So there's some of your bow speed mixed with an 1/8" smaller brace height and I'm sure the new cams probably contribute a few more fps.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

modernwarfare3 said:


> But it is $1899.00?? wth! i would not pay that much for this bow. Spend that much you might as well get a Daniel Defense M4.lol


Got one, imo my grey ghost is 3 times better


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I'm all ready wondering if my 3 arrow tight spot quiver will mount up..


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Since I'm a carbon based life form, and the bow is carbon based... would I become one with the bow? 🤔

I have to shoot this thing.


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## 603Scott (Aug 6, 2020)

jo3st3 said:


> Since I'm a carbon based life form, and the bow is a carbon based... would I become one with the bow? 🤔
> 
> I have to shoot this thing.


Yes. I'm extremely confident that's exactly how it works.


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

Detroit-1 said:


> Sorry but I don't beleave the speed.


so you’ve never owned any Evolve cam bow I take it? You probably wouldn’t believe the speed I get out of my Focus EM cam either. I’ll give you hint it comes out about a 345ibo with a 28.5” DL and 6 5/8 BH on a 37” ATA. Now this new cam looks to be very similar in shape to the EM cams but bigger.


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

North Park said:


> A bunch of different PSE dealers have posted on Facebook today that they have the Levitate in stock.


Wow. I have talked to three in Denver, one that I work for, and NONE of them have the bows.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

IVhunter said:


> so you’ve never owned any Evolve cam bow I take it? You probably wouldn’t believe the speed I get out of my Focus EM cam either. I’ll give you hint it comes out about a 345ibo with a 28.5” DL and 6 5/8 BH on a 37” ATA. Now this new cam looks to be very similar in shape to the EM cams but bigger.


Can wait to see what they offer on the rest of the 2022 line for us short draw guys


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## axeforce6 (Sep 15, 2010)

Mathias said:


> To each his own, it‘s a looker IMO.
> 
> Owning what I consider to be the ultimate hunting bow, the Mach 1, I look forward to trying this new edition.
> Thanks for sharing, the gray looks fantastic.


I agree. Im not 100% sold on it. My Mach 1 shoots over ibo. I shoot it well. I don’t see this bow as a complete replacement. I may get one. Not 100% sure. I don’t want a nocked on edition. If PSE does a standard edition in first lite I’ll probably order it. My Mach 1 is one to be beat. Stats alone won’t do that. Months of shooting will. Good luck.


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## rootju (Sep 22, 2009)

Looks pretty sweet to me. Might have to pick one up for my next rig.


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## jpm_mq2 (May 22, 2004)

Another short bow,with a short brace height. ho hum.


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## North Park (Jan 14, 2014)

SHPoet said:


> Wow. I have talked to three in Denver, one that I work for, and NONE of them have the bows.


I guess we’re low on the priority list in Colorado. Probably has more to do with when orders were placed I suppose.


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## bowman69 (Aug 10, 2004)

Hmm can’t help but to wonder why every time he draws the bow the camera pans away. Guess I’ll reserve my thoughts until someone who didn’t have design input and isn’t on the pay roll, reviews it. 


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## Dackpockity (Jul 25, 2019)

He never mentioned anything about the draw cycle. I think I’m going to hold off until I find out how it draws. Being light and fast means nothing if it’s a bitch to draw back.


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## jorkep (Oct 13, 2005)

bowman69 said:


> Hmm can’t help but to wonder why every time he draws the bow the camera pans away. Guess I’ll reserve my thoughts until someone who didn’t have design input and isn’t on the pay roll, reviews it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Went back and rewatched. Nice catch. They definitely pan away before full draw.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Dackpockity said:


> He never mentioned anything about the draw cycle. I think I’m going to hold off until I find out how it draws. Being light and fast means nothing if it’s a bitch to draw back.


on the live instagram feed today he took questions.. he said it's smoother for some reason I can't remember.


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

Hard to believe it’s smoother than an nxt 33 with that kind of speed. 

Wait for people to shoot them to get the truth. 


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## rwk83 (Mar 27, 2019)

GrainofPain said:


> If I can get my hunting rig under 5lbs, it's worth the money to me. The Carbon is sourced domestically.
> 
> Curious to see how fast it slings arrows. Planning to run it at 77#, 30" DL, 530gr arrow


that’s almost identical to what Dudley shot in the video on his speed test. He got 298fps @ 78#, 30.5”, 530gr arrow 


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## Mc1990 (Nov 12, 2020)

SwVaHntr said:


> Can wait to see what they offer on the rest of the 2022 line for us short draw guys


90% are short draw 😂


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## rwk83 (Mar 27, 2019)

bowman69 said:


> Hmm can’t help but to wonder why every time he draws the bow the camera pans away. Guess I’ll reserve my thoughts until someone who didn’t have design input and isn’t on the pay roll, reviews it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


to get the focus and arrow flight down range in frame on the camera


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

jorkep said:


> Went back and rewatched. Nice catch. They definitely pan away before full draw.


At 46 min theres one shot where you see him draw all the way back in frame.


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## Leviw96 (Nov 7, 2020)

Just watched the video. Even if it’s a bit harsh speed comes from somewhere lol. I shot a 2010 pse omen in my local shop the other day that was harsh at 70.


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## Kody Sprague (May 8, 2014)

Mathias said:


> To each his own, it‘s a looker IMO.
> 
> Owning what I consider to be the ultimate hunting bow, the Mach 1, I look forward to trying this new edition.
> Thanks for sharing, the gray looks fantastic.


Idk if the mach 1 is the ultimate hunting bow?


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## Daddybuck-kilr (Feb 17, 2011)

Wondering if that new can will be used on some of the 22 aluminum models?
not really a carbon guy myself being a tree stand whitetail hunter


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

🎤 drop.


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## NYyotekiller (Dec 7, 2011)

The Levitate looks legit. I’ll reserve my opinion until I shoot one myself though.

With that being said, it doesn’t look like anything I can’t live with out.


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Kody Sprague said:


> Idk if the mach 1 is the ultimate hunting bow?


“What I consider to be” lol.

FWIW, if it isn’t, it’s top 3.


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## archerichards (Sep 21, 2016)

skyshark1985 said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


I really like that riser, especially compared to my all carbon Hoyt riser.


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## bojangles808 (Sep 5, 2013)

bloodtrail1 said:


> The Lancaster Archery video review said that there was a little bit of a hump in the draw. But, last I looked the video was gone, so no doubt Dudley didnt like the review and Lancaster had to pull the video review?


thats hilarious if they had to pull it bc dudley threw a fit


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## Wahp (Apr 25, 2021)

certainly has it's own look, love it or hate it?


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

Mc1990 said:


> 90% are short draw 😂





Mc1990 said:


> 90% are short draw 😂


Really that many under 28 inch draw?


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## ParkerBow (Dec 4, 2006)

Hard to believe a review coming from someone employed by PSE. Hope my pro shop gets some in soon


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## Kody Sprague (May 8, 2014)

Deadeye1205 said:


> “What I consider to be” lol.
> 
> FWIW, if it isn’t, it’s top 3.
> 
> ...


Lol we forget some of those old bows that were just killing machines like the bear motive 6 I used to shoot.


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## Mc1990 (Nov 12, 2020)

SwVaHntr said:


> Really that many under 28 inch draw?


For me I consider anything under 29 to be short you cannot find much bows that go over 30 let alone over 31 I need a 31.5 inch draw and that is so hard to find so many nice bows come out every year and they are all to small because they go from 27-30 and if you do find a bow that does go 31+ inch draw its not a fast bow it doesn't have all the bells and whistles the flagships do or the ata is 31 and under peep angle is horrible


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## jorkep (Oct 13, 2005)

vmals said:


> At 46 min theres one shot where you see him draw all the way back in frame.


Yep. There is one shot. Definitely a hump there. But hard to tell how pronounced it will be from 1 video.


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## Darkshovel1979 (Oct 12, 2021)

I can dig it! Looks the bows from Destiny 2.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Predator said:


> In Dud’s bow build video there is clearly a hump when he’s shooting the bow. You can see him struggle a bit to get through the last couple inches of draw. Granted, he was shooting it at 77# so that may be a significant factor. ???


The Lancaster video had to be taken down not because of any hump or review aspect it’s just they released the video too soon. They did get a pre production for review but they were supposed to hold off until Dudley’s video had time to be seen first (which only makes business and marketing since from the Nock On Brand standpoint). While it might have a hump (have no idea) that was not the reason for the takedown of the video. I know it wasn’t you who first brought it up, just wanted to clarify.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

Mathias said:


> To each his own, it‘s a looker IMO.
> 
> Owning what I consider to be the ultimate hunting bow, the Mach 1, I look forward to trying this new edition.
> Thanks for sharing, the gray looks fantastic.


same here looks good


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

sharp looking like it


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

i just cant go that kind of money, wish i could


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## Kid Charlemagne (Jan 20, 2021)

That really is a powerfully ugly riser. I am absolutely going to need one.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

Green one still looks like hulk poo but that smoke grey makes anything look rad. Sounds like awesome bow. Hoping they'll make 35" version with low stab mount at some point.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

Mc1990 said:


> For me I consider anything under 29 to be short you cannot find much bows that go over 30 let alone over 31 I need a 31.5 inch draw and that is so hard to find so many nice bows come out every year and they are all to small because they go from 27-30 and if you do find a bow that does go 31+ inch draw its not a fast bow it doesn't have all the bells and whistles the flagships do or the ata is 31 and under peep angle is horrible


I consider anything under 28 short draw, and because it goes down to 27.5 I wouldn't buy it, because it's at the bottom,, and feels like a short strung draw length specific cam.
I own 1 bow under 35 ata, the other 2 are 37 and 40 with the EM cam.


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## wb_hunter (Sep 26, 2020)

Sounds like a nice bow, but ... not for me.
With a 27.5 .. 28" draw and about 55# DW, what is left of the 348 fps ?
Not sure if the weight really justifies the delicateness of the carbon material. How do the embedded metal bushings hold up over time, temperature cycles, and with careless users ?
Nothing that really justifies this price for me.
BTW, my Ferocity is about 3.6 lbs as the Levitate, and is holding up quite well.
And I don't need a bowpress for any maintenance job.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

4IDARCHER said:


> The Lancaster video had to be taken down not because of any hump or review aspect it’s just they released the video too soon. They did get a pre production for review but they were supposed to hold off until Dudley’s video had time to be seen first (which only makes business and marketing since from the Nock On Brand standpoint). While it might have a hump (have no idea) that was not the reason for the takedown of the video. I know it wasn’t you who first brought it up, just wanted to clarify.


Understood. Yeah I could care less why they took video down. I was just commenting on the possible presence of a “hump” based on what the video showed.


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

I like the bow. Dont think one is in my future but I do want to try one out. Is it just me or damn can ole Dud shoot!!!! 🏹🏆


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## leftee (Nov 15, 2005)

He can shoot,he can hunt,he can design,he can hype,he can hustle,he can educate and he sure can grow archery.Of course none of those traits are acceptable to many of the mental rejects on boards.
Price?Don't like,don't buy.Actually pretty simple for most.


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## Nhart1 (Sep 4, 2020)

bojangles808 said:


> thats hilarious if they had to pull it bc dudley threw a fit


They definitely tell it like it is and I trust their opinions


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## BIP (Apr 30, 2013)

I guess the carbon might be nice, but when I have an aluminum 34" ATA bow at 3.7 lbs bare bow compared to the Levitate at 3.6 lbs.....


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## wb_hunter (Sep 26, 2020)

BIP said:


> I guess the carbon might be nice, but when I have an aluminum 34" ATA bow at 3.7 lbs bare bow compared to the Levitate at 3.6 lbs.....


One great advantage - the bow doesn't feel that cold around and below the freezing point.
But handlebar tape is still cheaper.


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

As far as what a CARBON BOW SHOULD BE, PSE is burrying Hoyt in my opinion.


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## jorkep (Oct 13, 2005)

4IDARCHER said:


> The Lancaster video had to be taken down not because of any hump or review aspect it’s just they released the video too soon. They did get a pre production for review but they were supposed to hold off until Dudley’s video had time to be seen first (which only makes business and marketing since from the Nock On Brand standpoint). While it might have a hump (have no idea) that was not the reason for the takedown of the video. I know it wasn’t you who first brought it up, just wanted to clarify.


This is what I figured.


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..Would you set up the "Levitate" for 3D or is to early to tell


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## vmals (Jul 24, 2018)

Lancaster review is back up.


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## favoriteflannel (Apr 21, 2019)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..Would you set up the "Levitate" for 3D or is to early to tell


Weight isn't really a problem for 3d so I certainly wouldn't run out to replace my setup.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Notice on the lancaster review, he goes from bare hand to thumb sling several times? Makes you wonder, if its jumping in his hand.

No full draw cycle in the video, on clip late where he gets close, starts to wince and then they cut away. I find that odd that both lancaster and no video both did that... maybe part of the nda. Not something we will ever know.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)




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## rwk83 (Mar 27, 2019)

TangoGorilla said:


> Notice on the lancaster review, he goes from bare hand to thumb sling several times? Makes you wonder, if its jumping in his hand.
> 
> No full draw cycle in the video, on clip late where he gets close, starts to wince and then they cut away. I find that odd that both lancaster and no video both did that... maybe part of the nda. Not something we will ever know.


there is a slo-mo full draw on the Lancaster video @ 11:45, and later in the nock on video after the long distance shooting there is a clip as well. It looks like there is a little hump/drop off.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

There's no free lunch when it comes to speed. You can tell just looking at the shape of the cam it's going to have that drop off into the valley. But like anything, you do it 50 times and you don't notice or care anymore.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

If someone is into the high end carbon bow market, looks like they hit a home run with this one. And if you're in that market, you're not crying over $100-150 versus other carbon bows, which don't appear to be better, and aren't made in the US.

If price sensitive, I would imagine a new aluminum bow is also coming out for much less. And the Embark was a budget bow if sub $1K is the price point for someone.


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## jorkep (Oct 13, 2005)

jo3st3 said:


>





jo3st3 said:


>


Really good review.


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## PNWArcher82 (Jun 6, 2021)

I like it. That’sa rad bow.
Guess I’m gonna have to stick with my boat anchor V3 though. 😂


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## Adam634 (Jan 2, 2013)

Definitely wanna shoot it 
We’ll see if it’s worth the heavy price


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## Smada962 (Dec 25, 2007)

I wonder what the reviews or first impressions would be if Dudley wasn't associated with it. 

I do respect Dudley for what he does for the sport no doubt, but man this picture they are using for marketing material is one of the lamer things I've ever seen.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Smada962 said:


> I wonder what the reviews or first impressions would be if Dudley wasn't associated with it.
> 
> I do respect Dudley for what he does for the sport no doubt, but man this picture they are using for marketing material is one of the lamer things I've ever seen.
> 
> View attachment 7487029



It's his brain child so ... magic trick levitating bow posters. 🤷‍♂️

I don't think anyone that can afford this bow is buying it because of John Dudley. Typically that's a younger crowd and most younger people will use AL. imo the folks that will buy it will do so because they think it's the best carbon bow on the market. And when he recommends all these changes, instead of some nameless engineer that might not even hunt, it also brings more validity to the product and what works best in the field.


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## PNWArcher82 (Jun 6, 2021)

Smada962 said:


> I wonder what the reviews or first impressions would be if Dudley wasn't associated with it.
> 
> I do respect Dudley for what he does for the sport no doubt, but man this picture they are using for marketing material is one of the lamer things I've ever seen.
> 
> View attachment 7487029


Hahaha that is incredibly cheesy.

Dudley seems like a cheese ball. Seems like a legitimately nice person, and probably fun to hang with, but he’s definitely a salesman.

as long as they’re not selling garbage by using his name, I guess they just want to make it edgy and cool and fun.

there needs to be a balance to the Mathews marketing which is more stiff and classy.

Mathews reminds me of Simms (fly fishing gear). They’re expensive, and a bit stiff, and classy and for a quieter older crowd.

PSE takes the “badass” approach and they have Dudley yelling “freaking awesome!” the whole way.

ive never shot a PSE, and succumbed to the Mathews marketing and am very happy with the V3, but I wouldn’t hesitate to try a PSE and I bet I’d love it.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

PNWArcher82 said:


> Hahaha that is incredibly cheesy.
> 
> Dudley seems like a cheese ball. Seems like a legitimately nice person, and probably fun to hang with, but he’s definitely a salesman.
> 
> ...



Mathews looks like marketing geniuses compared to Bowtech...


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## PNWArcher82 (Jun 6, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


> Mathews looks like marketing geniuses compared to Bowtech...


#refusetofollow!

I love Mathews marketing. It totally fits my style. It’s classy and not gaudy. 
Its “real” and not over the top. They’re doing a great job, whether you like the bows or not.

PSE is definitely a bit more in your face. Their limbs are so loud. The font is huge. The colors etc. they’ve definitely taken a different approach.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Dudleys name on it hurts it just as much as it helps.

I could careless who is attached too it, if its a good bow, its a good bow. 

I ignore the hype and will wait for a few people to test it that are not in a position for financial gain. Those numbers I am waiting on, but I doubt we will see them this year.


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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

jo3st3 said:


> I don't think anyone that can afford this bow is buying it because of John Dudley.


I honestly dont think you could be more wrong here. MOST people that will get this bow will do so because of Dudley. Dudleys market is roughly the guys within their first 2 years of archery/bowhunting. Like others have said, theres no one else like him. He stands alone in his space. He is excellent with his content and education. Im not ripping him AT ALL. He builds bows for his insta celeb friends, knowing that if you show people these guys with his bows, itll sell to his market. He has been doing it for years, its not new. But he is going to sell more of these bows to guys within their first 2 years than he is long timers.

Again, no indictment on Dudley. Or the bow. Could be the best thing since sliced bread. But I fully believe that he brings in a lot of 'adult onset' hunters who probably have the means to buy these buys bows right out of the gate.

But I dont know many guys who have been in this for long that want "Nock On" on their bow. Its something people grow out of as they get more experience. Ive heard Aron Snyder from Kifaru talk about how he is going to take a bunch of $*%$ for shooting a nock on bow.

IMO, PSE and Dudleys BIGGEST challenge here is to sell this bow to seasoned guys and those who arent associated with Dud. But they know they can count on those new guys Dudley has brought into the Nock On Nation.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

jo3st3 said:


> If someone is into the high end carbon bow market, looks like they hit a home run with this one. And if you're in that market, you're not crying over $100-150 versus other carbon bows, which don't appear to be better, and aren't made in the US.
> .


People scream buy America all the time, but in reality, they don’t want to pay for what that actually takes.


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

Is that 348fps at 80lbs or 70lbss?


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> Is that 348fps at 80lbs or 70lbss?


At 5 grains per pound.


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## Fireprojectile (Apr 9, 2021)

Nice bow, i like it. It's on my list.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

smau990 said:


> At 5 grains per pound.



And 30"


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

RK4 said:


> I honestly dont think you could be more wrong here. MOST people that will get this bow will do so because of Dudley. Dudleys market is roughly the guys within their first 2 years of archery/bowhunting. Like others have said, theres no one else like him. He stands alone in his space. He is excellent with his content and education. Im not ripping him AT ALL. He builds bows for his insta celeb friends, knowing that if you show people these guys with his bows, itll sell to his market. He has been doing it for years, its not new. But he is going to sell more of these bows to guys within their first 2 years than he is long timers.
> 
> Again, no indictment on Dudley. Or the bow. Could be the best thing since sliced bread. But I fully believe that he brings in a lot of 'adult onset' hunters who probably have the means to buy these buys bows right out of the gate.
> 
> ...



I agree, but are there a lot of guys new to bow hunting buying a $1900 bow? I mean, aren't most of those guys buying the Embark or NTN? This bow is for guys that are hardcore, and if you're hardcore, it has to flat out perform first and foremost. If I see anyone with this bow, I will not think they are a noob.

They should offer two designs... one that is a Levitate Nock On Edition, and one that is just a normal Levitate that has a normal design on it. I think that would sell a crap ton more stuff IMO. Not everyone wants flow green and horns and all that on their bow, and others think it's really cool that someone has disrupted the stuffy, traditional, hunting bow crowd.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

I would never buy a knock on unless it was sold at a discount. I really dislike the color scheme


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

rwk83 said:


> there is a slo-mo full draw on the Lancaster video @ 11:45, and later in the nock on video after the long distance shooting there is a clip as well. It looks like there is a little hump/drop off.


I believe PJ was shooting it at 90% letoff so a hump/dump is to be expected.

NC

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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

jo3st3 said:


> I agree, but are there a lot of guys new to bow hunting buying a $1900 bow?


Well this is the first $1900 bow, but no, most new guys aren’t buying a regular $1900 bow. But a nock on $1900 bow? Yes. Absolutely.

90+% of his market are people inside of 2 years in archery. Those people WILL buy this bow if he tells them it’s the cats whiskers.

The bow could be all of what he says. I’m not saying that it is or isn’t. And I agree PSE will release basically a carbon version of this similar to the NXT - NTN aluminums.


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## Buran (Nov 26, 2018)

The bow looks nice and has a good color selection (albeit charcoal looked better in their aluminum bows); the specs are ok (a faster Mach 1 with wider bearings, limbs and limb pockets, plus an extra stab hole). No clue about the draw cycle (to be seen).

Not much complains: is more expensive than expected, but fits well against the competition (which has heavier carbon bows with weirder designs). Still lacks being 35" ATA or more (but probably will come in the future). What I don't like is the new cable guard: PSE wasn't in the same league as Prime/Bowtech/Elite in that department, but at least it was adjustable (the new one isn't). A friend of mine has a Prime STX and can move the arrows from left to right in the target at 50 m just adjusting the cable guard. The argument of "they want to ride off adjustability because leads to inconsistency" is only valid if your settings relies just in a bare screw pressuring a carbon rod: if you build a good cable guard system it won't change just due usage.


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## wbates (Jul 24, 2010)

Worst part about it is, lets say you pay 1800-1900 for it, you wont get parts for it in 3 years....


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

tmead said:


> People scream buy America all the time, but in reality, they don’t want to pay for what that actually takes.


true and some just cant afford to buy the best american builds,for me this bow at 2 grand is beyond my budget.ill have to wait


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

wbates said:


> Worst part about it is, lets say you pay 1800-1900 for it, you wont get parts for it in 3 years....


That is a pse issue and imo one of the biggest ones I have for buying one of thier bows. That has nothing to do with the bow.


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## Dryfirecharlie (Mar 11, 2018)

Ol dudley is fixing to levitate $1900 out of some people’s wallets. 

In all seriousness the pse rep came by my local shop yesterday and my buddy shot it at 29” 70lbs. He said there is a significant hump at the end of the draw cycle, but the speed had to come from somewhere. He didn’t bother shooting it thru the chrono but said it seemed really fast, and quiet. He ordered exactly one bow for stock. He sells a ton of bows but very very few carbon bows.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

I feel the “hump” may be the biggest let down on this bow once people get it in their hands. I’m not sure why they felt compelled to build a top end carbon bow on a speed platform vs a solid performance platform. An IBO of 340-342 in those specs with a smoother draw cycle would have been much more popular than a speed bow with a hump and dump at that price. 340 is really solid performance and if you can get it with a decent draw cycle that’s the cat’s meow. I’m getting exactly that combo with my Enkore.

I’m actually pretty impressed with the Levitate (otherwise). I don’t like the price but could easily afford if I really wanted it. Might be (or have been) tempted but if the draw cycle is what it appears to be there’s a good chance I’m “out” on that ill thought out design alone. They should offer it in a smoother cam design that delivers the specs I mentioned.


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## cuttiebrownbow (Feb 14, 2019)

My T. rex 27 inch draw is feeling left out lol


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## rwk83 (Mar 27, 2019)

cuttiebrownbow said:


> My T. rex 27 inch draw is feeling left out lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


you actually have the advantage... can't reach the ol' wallet as easily


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

cuttiebrownbow said:


> My T. rex 27 inch draw is feeling left out lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Short draw version coming in January


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## HbDane (Sep 13, 2013)

Predator said:


> I feel the “hump” may be the biggest let down on this bow once people get it in their hands. I’m not sure why they felt compelled to build a top end carbon bow on a speed platform vs a solid performance platform. An IBO of 340-342 in those specs with a smoother draw cycle would have been much more popular than a speed bow with a hump and dump at that price. 340 is really solid performance and if you can get it with a decent draw cycle that’s the cat’s meow. I’m getting exactly that combo with my Enkore.
> 
> I’m actually pretty impressed with the Levitate (otherwise). I don’t like the price but could easily afford if I really wanted it. Might be (or have been) tempted but if the draw cycle is what it appears to be there’s a good chance I’m “out” on that ill thought out design alone. They should offer it in a smoother cam design that delivers the specs I mentioned.


I noticed that dump when he was shooting too, but was also wondering if the dump was like some other bows like the SR6 where the long draw guys felt it but 29" and under was more of just a stiff solid pull. I'm a lefty so I'm not shooting one for a while but hoping someone can answer that question who can actually shoot one.


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

The dump is minimal. Marginally worse than a evolve cam. The bow has legitimately zero vibration, it’s very quiet, and very fast. The only thing you feel is a slight movement of the whole bow moving forward, and that’s just because it’s so light. It’s unlike anything I’ve ever shot before. I am SUPREMELY impressed.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

favoriteflannel said:


> 55:41
> 78lbs
> 389.4g-342fps
> 529g-298fps


What draw length?


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## Drahthaarunner (Oct 21, 2021)

skyshark1985 said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


Envy is a sucker! I don’t care what it looks like, they shoot amazing.


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## nontypical (Jan 4, 2004)

I thought he said it maxed at 77 pounds and definitely 30.5 inches of draw.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Q2DEATH said:


> What draw length?


I believe he set it at 30.5


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

TangoGorilla said:


> And 30"


I believe he set it at 30.5


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Price is insane. Bow looks sweet. They hit a home run.


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Flat brim T.A.C. Superstars are going to super excited.


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## Ar56903 (Jul 30, 2018)

3 constant reoccurring themes on this website: 
-Spam to post in classifieds 
-What’s the best *_*? (Bow/ sight/ release/ etc)
-Hate for Dudley (and YouTube bow hunters)

As for the Levitate. Too expensive for my blood. But I think it will sell well. From what I heard…that dude sells a **** ton of bows…I’d love to see the actual data on it. I’ll probably pick one up in 4-5 years used lol.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Q2DEATH said:


> Flat brim T.A.C. Superstars are going to super excited.


Have you gone to a TAC event? I didn't meet anyone like that. They were all serious hunters and 3D shooters that wanted a challenge and an excuse to have fun on the mountain with their friends and family. I thought it was fun and would definitely go to future events. Decent challenge, and makes normal hunting shots seem really easy.


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

Watched the video and Dudley of course loves his bow and is going to lie about some things. There were a few things I immediately said “nope wrong” on as soon as he mentioned them. Kind of pathetic actually. 

The bow however seems like it might be nice and I may give it a try. 


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## rwk83 (Mar 27, 2019)

Brettski7 said:


> Watched the video and Dudley of course loves his bow and is going to lie about some things. There were a few things I immediately said “nope wrong” on as soon as he mentioned them. Kind of pathetic actually.
> 
> The bow however seems like it might be nice and I may give it a try.
> 
> ...


curious, what was incorrect?


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

rwk83 said:


> curious, what was incorrect?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fastest and best bow. Not true. My bow at shorter draw and same arrow weight shoots the same speed as his. Dead in hand. Claimed other bows out the box weren’t as dead in hand and had to add stuff to them to get there. Uh nope. Not even close. Every Mathews bow I have ever shot (a lot) is dead in hand right out the box with no accessories except what’s actually need to shoot them. 

I mean if you actually watch and actually know anything about other brands, you wouldn’t have even asked the question because you know he said some false things. <—- that’s assuming you were trying to take a little dig by asking. If not and you are genuinely curious, then I explained myself. 


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## eltaco (Dec 30, 2009)

I just have to say, if I were one of the engineers behind the design of this bow, I’d be truly livid that Dudley is accepting any of the credit and limelight for what he surely didn’t do. What a disgrace to the people who actually put their work into bringing the bow to market.


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## 1faith (Dec 8, 2010)

So $500 more than a Hoyt carbon ? If you want one give a couple of months and they'll be in the classifieds for 1k, one disadvantage to PSE.


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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

eltaco said:


> I just have to say, if I were one of the engineers behind the design of this bow, I’d be truly livid that Dudley is accepting any of the credit and limelight for what he surely didn’t do. What a disgrace to the people who actually put their work into bringing the bow to market.


Its a legit concern I had when the NTN dropped last year. Dudley comes in late and takes a design they worked on and fleshed out in the NXT, made some changes to their design they probably didnt agree with, stuck some flo green decals on it and he took all that glory. That had a hint of a slap in the face to it for those engineers. I think the Mach 1 was simply just the flo green stickers. This year, no mention of the PSE engineers who probably had to go to the ends of the earth juggling between physics and what they were being told they needed to make happen.

I think my favorite line on here so far is a guy who said "And when he recommends all these changes, instead of some nameless engineer that might not even hunt, it also brings more validity to the product and what works best in the field"

I honestly dont even know where to begin with that. We now want the soccer moms designing the mini vans because they drive them. What Dudley is doing in this is telling them where to put the cupholders. He isnt designing the engine and aerodynamics. If this bow is everything its cracked up to be, the highest end, best performing bow ever made - that seems like an accomplishment and they need to give the PSE engineers much more credit for it.


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## eltaco (Dec 30, 2009)

RK4 said:


> Its a legit concern I had when the NTN dropped last year. Dudley comes in late and takes a design they worked on and fleshed out in the NXT, made some changes to their design they probably didnt agree with, stuck some flo green decals on it and he took all that glory. That had a hint of a slap in the face to it for those engineers. I think the Mach 1 was simply just the flo green stickers. This year, no mention of the PSE engineers who probably had to go to the ends of the earth juggling between physics and what they were being told they needed to make happen.
> 
> I think my favorite line on here so far is a guy who said "And when he recommends all these changes, instead of some nameless engineer that might not even hunt, it also brings more validity to the product and what works best in the field"
> 
> I honestly dont even know where to begin with that. We now want the soccer moms designing the mini vans because they drive them. What Dudley is doing in this is telling them where to put the cupholders. He isnt designing the engine and aerodynamics. If this bow is everything its cracked up to be, the highest end, best performing bow ever made - that seems like an accomplishment and they need to give the PSE engineers much more credit for it.


That’s exactly right.

I could tell some stories, but I’ll withhold. Suffice it to say that group of engineers are adamant hunters and get it done on public land on a regular basis. 

You’re living in a fantasy world if you think a celebrity hunter is also making material selection and carbon layup design decisions, completing cam development, arrow delivery, stress analysis, robustness, modal analysis, life safety, and product longevity decisions. Let’s trust that to people who know what they’re doing… and let Dudley sprinkle some green on it… but man, give some credit where credit is due.

Sadly, as you quoted above, that marketing content still draws some folks in. My phone has been blowing up all day from people asking my thoughts on the “Dudley bow”. It’s gross.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

eltaco said:


> I just have to say, if I were one of the engineers behind the design of this bow, I’d be truly livid that Dudley is accepting any of the credit and limelight for what he surely didn’t do. What a disgrace to the people who actually put their work into bringing the bow to market.





RK4 said:


> Its a legit concern I had when the NTN dropped last year. Dudley comes in late and takes a design they worked on and fleshed out in the NXT, made some changes to their design they probably didnt agree with, stuck some flo green decals on it and he took all that glory. That had a hint of a slap in the face to it for those engineers. I think the Mach 1 was simply just the flo green stickers. This year, no mention of the PSE engineers who probably had to go to the ends of the earth juggling between physics and what they were being told they needed to make happen.
> 
> I think my favorite line on here so far is a guy who said "And when he recommends all these changes, instead of some nameless engineer that might not even hunt, it also brings more validity to the product and what works best in the field"
> 
> I honestly dont even know where to begin with that. We now want the soccer moms designing the mini vans because they drive them. If this bow is everything its cracked up to be, the highest end, best performing bow ever made - that seems like an accomplishment and they need to give the PSE engineers much more credit for it.



As a nameless, faceless, engineer myself, some nerd behind the scene isn't pushing units, and that is expected. Any concept drawn up on a computer and/or prototype needs to be tested in the field by someone that has experience... not the engineer. And that kind of feedback makes for a better end product. That's how everything worth buying is built.

As for JDs involvement, any speculation is just your own confirmation bias. To me, it sounds like he's been involved throughout the process as a product tester. He discusses where he would like to see improvements, what he liked or disliked about the prototypes, what he prefers in a product, etc. And it also sounds like his ideas are used as the inspiration behind some of the prototypes in the first place.

Basically, people made up their mind well before the release to either hate on it or buy it without even shooting it. And that's too bad, because it sounds like an excellent product if you're in the market for a high-end American made carbon bow.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

eltaco said:


> You’re living in a fantasy world if you think a celebrity hunter is also making material selection and carbon layup design decisions, completing cam development, arrow delivery, stress analysis, robustness, modal analysis, life safety, and product longevity decisions.


You're living in a fantasy world if you think anyone thought JD was doing that also. Pretty sure folks are fully aware of that. Clearly his role is a prototype tester, feedback giver, and a hell of a good partner for PSE to sell units. 

How about we discuss the bow itself. Have you tried it yet? I don't own anything by PSE, and I've never owned a carbon bow, but I'm curious to try it.


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

jo3st3 said:


> You're living in a fantasy world if you think anyone thought JD was doing that also. Pretty sure folks are fully aware of that. Clearly his role is a prototype tester, feedback giver, and a hell of a good partner for PSE to sell units.
> 
> How about we discuss the bow itself. Have you tried it yet? I don't own anything by PSE, and I've never owned a carbon bow, but I'm curious to try it.


I got two in for my shop, an ordered bow for a customer, and another to play with. I put a biscuit and a loop on the one I get to play with a little and sent a couple dozen arrows down range bare bow. Here are my honest thoughts (keep in mind I’ve shot virtually every bow released by the major manufacturers since 2013). 

I’ll start with the looks and feel. It’s a Mach 1. They look nearly identical and the lay person could never tell the difference. That’s where the similarities end.

The draw cycle is really quite comfortable all the way to a little dump (can’t really think of a comparable one, maybe bowtech insanity?) into an insanely nice valley and wall.

The bow aims and holds like a larger bow, string angle is virtually identical to my 33” Xpedite NXT. So that’s a plus. Grip is perfect.

The shot is unlike any bow I’ve shot to date. I don’t really know how to explain it. It’s both dead and alive. There’s no vibration, very little noise, everything is so solid, the bow is just so light that it has a very slight “nudge” forward in your hand when you release. It’s truly an absolute pleasure to shoot. It’s also very fast (no chrono readings yet, but impressive with the naked eye.

I have to say this, especially with all the complaining about Dudley and his marketing. The bow deserves to be called the best. Anyone considering a Hoyt Carbon would be a fool to not at the very least consider the levitate.

Is it V3 quiet? No. But it’s damn close

Is it Mathew’s Vibration free? Damn close

Is it as light as they say? Absolutely

Is it the best carbon riser bow to exist yet? Likely

Is it WORTH $1899??? Abso-freaking-lutely.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Deadeye1205 said:


> I got two in for my shop, an ordered bow for a customer, and another to play with. I put a biscuit and a loop on the one I get to play with a little and sent a couple dozen arrows down range bare bow. Here are my honest thoughts (keep in mind I’ve shot virtually every bow released by the major manufacturers since 2013).
> 
> I’ll start with the looks and feel. It’s a Mach 1. They look nearly identical and the lay person could never tell the difference. That’s where the similarities end.
> 
> ...


So what does it actually weigh?


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## Oceanland (Jul 26, 2017)

How does one tune this bow?
Shimming the cams?
Is there shim system built and the bow has different shims already installed, that one can move from side to side?


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

Brettski7 said:


> Fastest and best bow. Not true. My bow at shorter draw and same arrow weight shoots the same speed as his. Dead in hand. Claimed other bows out the box weren’t as dead in hand and had to add stuff to them to get there. Uh nope. Not even close. Every Mathews bow I have ever shot (a lot) is dead in hand right out the box with no accessories except what’s actually need to shoot them.
> 
> I mean if you actually watch and actually know anything about other brands, you wouldn’t have even asked the question because you know he said some false things.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This sounds like fanboy stuff. Chevy vs Ford.
“Best” is subjective. If it wasn’t there would only be one bow for everyone.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

1faith said:


> So $500 more than a Hoyt carbon ? If you want one give a couple of months and they'll be in the classifieds for 1k, one disadvantage to PSE.


Hoyt hasn't released their 2022 bow, my guess it will be above 2k, and isn't made in the USA....so have at it


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## The Old Guy (Mar 28, 2017)

I am going to want one, but never buy it, just like I did with the Mach 1.


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## cuttiebrownbow (Feb 14, 2019)

rwk83 said:


> you actually have the advantage... can't reach the ol' wallet as easily


Very true!  


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## ParkerBow (Dec 4, 2006)

Was going to buy one until I saw its only available in "nock on" version. Since I can't be the only person PSE missed out by not making a standard version. Oh well


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

RK4 said:


> I think my favorite line on here so far is a guy who said "And when he recommends all these changes, instead of some nameless engineer that might not even hunt, it also brings more validity to the product and what works best in the field"
> 
> I honestly dont even know where to begin with that. We now want the soccer moms designing the mini vans because they drive them. What Dudley is doing in this is telling them where to put the cupholders. He isnt designing the engine and aerodynamics. If this bow is everything its cracked up to be, the highest end, best performing bow ever made - that seems like an accomplishment and they need to give the PSE engineers much more credit for it.


That's what supposed to happen, though. The people who actually shoot the bow in the field are the ones who discover what's good about the design and what's not so good about it when it comes to actually getting arrows into the desired spot. Then, if the designers know what they're doing, they take that input from the shooters and put it into the bow.

That's the normal process of improving a design. It's a back-and-forth between engineering and the actual users of the bow testing it in the situations it's intended to be used in.

I don't know where you got this idea that "soccer moms" don't participate in the designs of "mini vans". That's a recipe for bad designs that fail, not good designs that succeed.

Sounds a little more like just jealousy against JD for some reason to me. There's no other explanation for the antipathy against him that fits. A guy like JD actually hunting with your bow out in the field and giving you feedback on what works and what doesn't is exactly what you want. Not what you don't want. That's just stupid.

Instead, it's very likely that the Levitate is a much improved version over the bow it's based on, when it comes to actually shooting it, based on the experience JD brought to it.

lee.


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..Personally I don't care who did what within PSE Archery..I believe that I'm looking at a refined product from yesteryear. And FWIW JD mentions that the bow he shot on the road is a couple in house generation cams different from the production bow I will have in my hands in a couple hours..Maybe the engineers and JD have a team concept and selling bows will have a nice Christmas bonus..It's all about the bow to me


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

Brettski7 said:


> Fastest and best bow. Not true. My bow at shorter draw and same arrow weight shoots the same speed as his. Dead in hand. Claimed other bows out the box weren’t as dead in hand and had to add stuff to them to get there. Uh nope. Not even close. Every Mathews bow I have ever shot (a lot) is dead in hand right out the box with no accessories except what’s actually need to shoot them.
> 
> I mean if you actually watch and actually know anything about other brands, you wouldn’t have even asked the question because you know he said some false things. <—- that’s assuming you were trying to take a little dig by asking. If not and you are genuinely curious, then I explained myself.
> 
> ...


i agree,i think dud is just wanting to promote his bow. it is nice but i think they should have kept the cost a little more realistic more guys might have bought it


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

tmead said:


> This sounds like fanboy stuff. Chevy vs Ford.
> “Best” is subjective. If it wasn’t there would only be one bow for everyone.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Nope just facts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

luke308 said:


> i agree,i think dud is just wanting to promote his bow. it is nice but i think they should have kept the cost a little more realistic more guys might have bought it


Plenty are going to buy it. MAP is $250 above an RX5 and it will blow that bow and whatever Hoyt comes out with as a successor out of the water (unless Hoyt does a massive redesign)


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

luke308 said:


> i agree,i think dud is just wanting to promote his bow. it is nice but i think they should have kept the cost a little more realistic more guys might have bought it


It’s an almost hand-made bow built with American/on-shore infrastructure and labor, not some cheap crap made by a slave labor camp overseas God-knows-where. If you want good US made products, you have to pay for them.

lee.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

1faith said:


> So $500 more than a Hoyt carbon ? If you want one give a couple of months and they'll be in the classifieds for 1k, one disadvantage to PSE.


thats all it should cost anyway,i like the bow but 1900 come on now.should have kept it 1000 to 1200 price range


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Plenty are going to buy it. MAP is $250 above an RX5 and it will blow that bow and whatever Hoyt comes out with as a successor out of the water (unless Hoyt does a massive redesign)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hoyts bows have always been overpriced. So yes I’d this one cost more it’s definitely overpriced. 


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

lees said:


> It’s an almost hand-made bow built with American/on-shore infrastructure and labor. If you want good US made products, you have to pay for them.
> 
> lee.


It’s mind boggling to me how many people on this forum just don’t understand that.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

lees said:


> It’s an almost hand-made bow built with American/on-shore infrastructure and labor, not some cheap crap made by some slave labor camp overseas God-knows-where. If you want good US made products, you have to pay for them.
> 
> lee.


i guess,you got to buy what you can afford period


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Brettski7 said:


> Hoyts bows have always been overpriced. So yes I’d this one cost more it’s definitely overpriced.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whatever you say LOL. Hoyt sells a lot of carbon bows. 

I bet you think F150’s should start at 18k too.


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

luke308 said:


> i guess,you got to buy what you can afford period


Lol. I can afford any bow on the market. I just choose not to overspend on one. There is a difference. I always love this like people try to use to try an knock down someone’s decision not to buy something OR more commonly justify to themselves the terrible and ridiculous purchase they know they just made. 


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

luke308 said:


> i guess,you got to buy what you can afford period


You get what you pay for. It all just comes down to what you actually want. If you want something like the Levitate, it’s just gonna cost ya… 

lee.


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Whatever you say LOL. Hoyt sells a lot of carbon bows.
> 
> I bet you think F150’s should start at 18k too.
> 
> ...


Just because they sale a lot doesn’t mean they aren’t overpriced. Yes some F150s are overpriced. Pretty much any truck these days are. I wouldn’t touch an F150 either. It’s really a simple concept to understand just many don’t seem competent enough to understand. 


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Brettski7 said:


> Just because they sale a lot doesn’t mean they aren’t overpriced. Yes some F150s are overpriced. Pretty much any truck these days are. I wouldn’t touch an F150 either. It’s really a simple concept to understand just many don’t seem competent enough to understand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s why the US is not an industrial powerhouse anymore. People dont want to pay what it costs to build and maintain a good economy. Same with a bow like this one. You don’t pay what it costs, you ain’t gonna get one… 

lee.


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..Every single person on this site got multiple federal stimulus checks..SO...If one was to drop $500-650 on the product then it's not going to have the bite you are complaining about..FWIW


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

lees said:


> It’s an almost hand-made bow built with American/on-shore infrastructure and labor, not some cheap crap made by a slave labor camp overseas God-knows-where. If you want good US made products, you have to pay for them.
> 
> lee





lees said:


> You get what you pay for. It all just comes down to what you actually want. If you want something like the Levitate, it’s just gonna cost ya…
> 
> lee.


true


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..Every single person on this site got multiple federal stimulus checks..SO...If one was to drop $500-650 on the product then it's not going to have the bite you are complaining about..FWIW


No, I did not qualify for any of them.


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## NCAVI8TOR (Oct 5, 2003)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..Every single person on this site got multiple federal stimulus checks..SO...If one was to drop $500-650 on the product then it's not going to have the bite you are complaining about..FWIW


I'm afraid I didn't, but I did fund a bunch of those checks! You're welcome!

NC

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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Brettski7 said:


> Just because they sale a lot doesn’t mean they aren’t overpriced. Yes some F150s are overpriced. Pretty much any truck these days are. I wouldn’t touch an F150 either. It’s really a simple concept to understand just many don’t seem competent enough to understand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The thing you aren’t understanding is you call it “overpriced” when in reality, you’re evidently just frugal. If people are willing to pay for it, then it’s not overpriced. Capitalism. 

Nothing wrong with being frugal by the way, but if everyone was like you, I would be significantly less well off than I am now LOL. 

If you don’t care that it’s made in America and it’s made of carbon, that’s great. We have a saying in the car business that applies to pretty much everything “there’s an *** for every seat”


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..Every single person on this site got multiple federal stimulus checks..SO...If one was to drop $500-650 on the product then it's not going to have the bite you are complaining about..FWIW


Huh? Absolutely not even close to being true. I never got a single check or a dime for that matter from the government. All I have to look forward to is the Dems jacking up my taxes to pay for these govt giveaways that create dependencies and ensure more power by the politicians in Washington.


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadeye1205 said:


> The thing you aren’t understanding is you call it “overpriced” when in reality, you’re evidently just frugal. If people are willing to pay for it, then it’s not overpriced. Capitalism.
> 
> Nothing wrong with being frugal by the way, but if everyone was like you, I would be significantly less well off than I am now LOL.
> 
> ...


Really? People pay for overpriced stuff all the time. Did you see the market for guns and ammo the last year? Get out of here with that nonsense. No one said they didn’t care if it’s made in America and carbon. Oh I see you are a car salesman. That explains some things. I’m done debating children and incompetence for the day. Y’all have a good one. 


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Brettski7 said:


> Really? People pay for overpriced stuff all the time. Did you see the market for guns and ammo the last year? Get out of here with that nonsense. No one said they didn’t care if it’s made in America and carbon. Oh I see you are a car salesman. That explains some things. I’m done debating children and incompetence for the day. Y’all have a good one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Welcome to the new reality. If stuff is hard to get and produce, it will be more expensive. That’s pretty simple math. Interesting that you claim others are incompetent 


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Welcome to the new reality. If stuff is hard to get and produce, it will be more expensive. That’s pretty simple math. Interesting that you claim others are incompetent
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes they are. I didn’t overpay for any of the guns, ammo, or reloading supplies I got last year. I waited until the became available for the prices they normally were and got them then. But several other dumb*** did. Lol


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Brettski7 said:


> Yes they are. I didn’t overpay for any of the guns, ammo, or reloading supplies I got last year. I waited until the became available for the prices they normally were and got them then. But several other dumb*** did. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yea I’ve avoided ammunition all year. Just haven’t even gone to the range. I’ve bought a couple guns I found for cheap on Gun broker but thats it. Tough times right now, hopefully everything clears up in the next 3 years or so. Just need a revolution . Anyway, have a good day man. Nothing wrong with a friendly debate on the sticker price of a bow to fire up the morning haha


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Yea I’ve avoided ammunition all year. Just haven’t even gone to the range. I’ve bought a couple guns I found for cheap on Gun broker but thats it. Tough times right now, hopefully everything clears up in the next 3 years or so. Just need a revolution . Anyway, have a good day man. Nothing wrong with a friendly debate on the sticker price of a bow to fire up the morning haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol you are right. I miss the days people can take jabs at each other and still laugh about it instead of breaking down and taking offense like little toddlers. 


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Brettski7 said:


> Lol you are right. I miss the days people can take jabs at each other and still laugh about it instead of breaking down and taking offense like little toddlers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ahhh they are still around. We’re just the minority at this point lol


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

I think Dud's relationship with the engineers is like a racing team. The engineers design a car and have the driver test it. He gives them feedback and they go back to work. I dont think envy plays any role in their relationship. The driver gets all the accolades when he wins the race but you know those engineers are swollen with pride knowing THEY built that car. I am sure its the same here as well. As far as the bow at first I wasnt all that whelmed but the more I look at it and hear some of those that have shot it, I gotta say my interest is peaked.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

lees said:


> You get what you pay for. It all just comes down to what you actually want. If you want something like the Levitate, it’s just gonna cost ya…
> 
> lee.


pay 2000 grand for the bow,then buy china arrows from wallmart to shoot thru it..lol


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

cruizerjoy said:


> I think Dud's relationship with the engineers is like a racing team. The engineers design a car and have the driver test it. He gives them feedback and they go back to work. I dont think envy plays any role in their relationship. The driver gets all the accolades when he wins the race but you know those engineers are swollen with pride knowing THEY built that car. I am sure its the same here as well. As far as the bow at first I wasnt all that whelmed but the more I look at it and hear some of those that have shot it, I gotta say my interest is peaked.


Honestly my interest is a little peaked also. I will likely shoot it when the other bows come out this year and I make my trip to Lancaster. Then I’ll pick one up in the classifieds for half price a few months after release if I like it enough. Lol. 


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

Brettski7 said:


> Honestly my interest is a little peaked also. I will likely shoot it when the other bows come out this year and I make my trip to Lancaster. Then I’ll pick one up in the classifieds for half price a few months after release if I like it enough. Lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great minds think a like. 🤣 I was thinking classifieds too. I figure a Mach 1 might be a cheaper pick up too. I am still a lover of the ECS cam so that is an option. Or see if they come out with a non-nockon Levitate later for less.


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## roushvert9 (Sep 21, 2010)

Maybe they can come out with a nock off version made in china that weighs a couple ounces less than their other bows and sell it for just a couple hundred less than the nock on model.


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

luke308 said:


> pay 2000 grand for the bow,then buy china arrows from wallmart to shoot thru it..lol


I don’t know if I’d pay 2 million dollars for a bow….




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## Jonnyp2777 (Oct 16, 2021)

Man this bow is lite! I’m sure I missed it, but has anyone seen a price on this yet?


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## Simplestman84 (Oct 22, 2019)

Brettski7 said:


> Lol. I can afford any bow on the market. I just choose not to overspend on one. There is a difference. I always love this like people try to use to try an knock down someone’s decision not to buy something OR more commonly justify to themselves the terrible and ridiculous purchase they know they just made.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


.

.


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## roushvert9 (Sep 21, 2010)

Jonnyp2777 said:


> Man this bow is lite! I’m sure I missed it, but has anyone seen a price on this yet?


2000 grand. look a couple posts back


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## Brettski7 (Sep 13, 2017)

Simplestman84 said:


> not to dissimilar from the people who complain that McDonald’s workers shouldn’t make $15 an hour and should continue to work 80 hours a week at four different part-time jobs just to make ends meet because they themselves are insecure and the fact that they only make $15-$20 at whatever the job they feel is more significant.
> 
> just in general people need to realize that holding others around them down and will not bring them up. And in fact if you contribute to your economy whether that be paying somebody more hopefully what goes around comes around in your community will thrive thus supporting you more so as well…. unfortunately the majority would have to give into that idea for it succeed and corporations or counterproductive to that philosophy.


Lol McDonald’s workers shouldn’t make $15/hr. 

But we are diverting the thread. Let’s keep it on track of the Levitate. 


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

Predator said:


> Huh? Absolutely not even close to being true. I never got a single check or a dime for that matter from the government. All I have to look forward to is the Dems jacking up my taxes to pay for these govt giveaways that create dependencies and ensure more power by the politicians in Washington.


Bingo


Now back to the Bow.......................................................................................................of the year thread.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

roushvert9 said:


> Maybe they can come out with a nock off version made in china that weighs a couple ounces less than their other bows and sell it for just a couple hundred less than the nock on model.


they might just do that


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

cruizerjoy said:


> I think Dud's relationship with the engineers is like a racing team. The engineers design a car and have the driver test it. He gives them feedback and they go back to work. I dont think envy plays any role in their relationship. The driver gets all the accolades when he wins the race but you know those engineers are swollen with pride knowing THEY built that car. I am sure its the same here as well. As far as the bow at first I wasnt all that whelmed but the more I look at it and hear some of those that have shot it, I gotta say my interest is peaked.


See “Ford vs. Ferrari” movie.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

ParkerBow said:


> Was going to buy one until I saw its only available in "nock on" version. Since I can't be the only person PSE missed out by not making a standard version. Oh well


Pse's version in January is what I was told


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

We build carbon fiber racing seat, the carbon fiber and resin have went up 115% from last year.
Up until 4 months ago you couldn't even find resin


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

SwVaHntr said:


> We build carbon fiber racing seat, the carbon fiber and resin have went up 115% from last year.
> Up until 4 months ago you couldn't even find resin


The reson for the no resins was not a covid thing... it was a Texas ice storm thing that froze pipes in the dow chemical plant. Effectively shutting it down for months and destroying most of thier storage. It shut down composites and coatings industry in the us.


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## Acefoxtrot (Aug 10, 2007)

Any word on other PSE release dates? I would personally like to see another long draw option for us big guys....like the Freak or Beast ECS that go out to 33" draw.


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## Arrowbender (Nov 7, 2018)

lees said:


> That's what supposed to happen, though. The people who actually shoot the bow in the field are the ones who discover what's good about the design and what's not so good about it when it comes to actually getting arrows into the desired spot. Then, if the designers know what they're doing, they take that input from the shooters and put it into the bow.
> 
> That's the normal process of improving a design. It's a back-and-forth between engineering and the actual users of the bow testing it in the situations it's intended to be used in.
> 
> ...


I get where you're coming from but the soccer mom analogy may be stretching it a little. There's a difference between user feedback, on how a product is perceived or experienced, and practical design and engineering input.

I know that Dudley is used to market this. I don't know what actual input he had in the design, or how it would've been any different without him.
I don't know why it's being assumed, when "big archery name signs up for brand x and pushes it as the best now, much betterer than before" is a standard practice.

George Clooney has marketed for Nespresso, Mercedes, and probably other stuff. 
I wouldn't assume he designed the car, or had any more input on that than "Yeah, I guess I like the colour, gimme a paycheck and a free car and stuff and I'll help sell some."
As far as a fair price for made in the US goes, fair point, as long as one keeps in mind marketing costs factor in as well.

That said, I do really like the look of the bow....


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## JFerg3 (Aug 24, 2013)

If it were a Mathews Levitate, some of you would be shooting it out of your saddle today!


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Arrowbender said:


> I get where you're coming from but the soccer mom analogy may be stretching it a little. There's a difference between user feedback, on how a product is perceived or experienced, and practical design and engineering input.
> 
> I know that Dudley is used to market this. I don't know what actual input he had in the design, or how it would've been any different without him.
> I don't know why it's being assumed, when "big archery name signs up for brand x and pushes it as the best now, much betterer than before" is a standard practice.
> ...


Well, like it or not, JD is a big name in archery for good reasons. Guys tend to forget that he has a long history in competitive target archery, as well as as a bow hunter. It’s not like he’s that guy down at the archery shop who’s been shooting two weeks, punching the trigger, 30lbs overbowed and still smacking his arm on every shot Sending them into the woods too.

If I were designing a high-end bow like this one, JD would be on the short list for my QA and test dept staff for it. That kind of experience can be a big contributor to the development of a good product.

Sure, there are lots of charlatans out there, but to my mind, JD isn’t one of them.

lee.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

SwVaHntr said:


> We build carbon fiber racing seat, the carbon fiber and resin have went up 115% from last year.
> Up until 4 months ago you couldn't even find resin


why is everything in such a shortage,carbon resin, ammo, reloading supplies lumber, lets create a shortage then let greed take off


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## nontypical (Jan 4, 2004)

eltaco said:


> I just have to say, if I were one of the engineers behind the design of this bow, I’d be truly livid that Dudley is accepting any of the credit and limelight for what he surely didn’t do. What a disgrace to the people who actually put their work into bringing the bow to market.


I thought he specifically was comparing it to other CARBON bows when he stated that in the video. You're comparing it to bows that weigh 25-30% more. Good one.


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

wb_hunter said:


> Sounds like a nice bow, but ... not for me.
> With a 27.5 .. 28" draw and about 55# DW, what is left of the 348 fps ?
> Not sure if the weight really justifies the delicateness of the carbon material. How do the embedded metal bushings hold up over time, temperature cycles, and with careless users ?
> Nothing that really justifies this price for me.
> ...


Your Ferocity has a speed rating of 320-328 and you're worried about how much speed the LEVITATE is going to give up when lowered to 27.5" to 28" draw length at 55 lbs? It's pretty safe to say the LEVITATE will hold up just as well as your FEROCITY did at the same draw length and weight. So it should still be 20 fps faster than your FEROCITY.


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

TangoGorilla said:


> Notice on the lancaster review, he goes from bare hand to thumb sling several times? Makes you wonder, if its jumping in his hand.
> 
> No full draw cycle in the video, on clip late where he gets close, starts to wince and then they cut away. I find that odd that both lancaster and no video both did that... maybe part of the nda. Not something we will ever know.


You can see it jump some in the video slow-mo. I'm curious how an arrow goes from a dead stand-still to 348 FPS without the bow moving some in the opposite direction as the arrow. People act as if a bow can be designed to defy physics. A bow is going to move some at the shot. The lighter the bow and/or heavier the arrow, the more the bow is going to move at the shot. I would be more concerned about the amount of vibration and the duration of vibration.


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

TangoGorilla said:


> That is a pse issue and imo one of the biggest ones I have for buying one of thier bows. That has nothing to do with the bow.


Yep. That is my No. 1 issue with it by far! If their parts availability were like Mathews, I would be all over it!


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

eltaco said:


> I just have to say, if I were one of the engineers behind the design of this bow, I’d be truly livid that Dudley is accepting any of the credit and limelight for what he surely didn’t do. What a disgrace to the people who actually put their work into bringing the bow to market.


Rex Darlington has dealt with that most of his life.


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

Oceanland said:


> How does one tune this bow?
> Shimming the cams?
> Is there shim system built and the bow has different shims already installed, that one can move from side to side?


 Dudley made the comment that you would not have to shim it like previous models and it should tune right out of the box with no shimming needed. Some folks commenting here act as if they haven't even watched the videos. Watch the videos and then ask questions. If you pay attention, the videos answer most of the questions that have been asked here.


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## agwrestler (Dec 31, 2010)

SwVaHntr said:


> Pse's version in January is what I was told


What if ATA ratio was similar to previous PSE/Nock on product?

Drive NXT/Embark = "Jan tbd"/Levitate 

33/31 = x / 32.25


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## M. Brown (Oct 14, 2021)

Looks pretty sick!


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## Arrowbender (Nov 7, 2018)

lees said:


> Well, like it or not, JD is a big name in archery for good reasons. Guys tend to forget that he has a long history in competitive target archery, as well as as a bow hunter. It’s not like he’s that guy down at the archery shop who’s been shooting two weeks, punching the trigger, 30lbs overbowed and still smacking his arm on every shot Sending them into the woods too.
> 
> If I were designing a high-end bow like this one, JD would be on the short list for my QA and test dept staff for it. That kind of experience can be a big contributor to the development of a good product.
> 
> ...


That kind of ignores the point.
He's not being used for whatever his achievements are, or aren't. 

He's being used because his branding is so strong through youtube and whatnot, that I've seen someone at one point on here claim with a straight face that he's an olympic archer. It's not even the same discipline.
The Nock On equipment he's selling, is it not just largely rebranded?
Do you believe, say, Levi Morgan actually designed the stuff he's been pushing for the last I don't know how many years?

And to be snotty about it:
No one's heard of the dude outside of the US.
Ask anyone outside of the US if they want input from Dudley for target competition... or Gellethien or Schloesser or Dave Cousins or Elzinga or Chance or Reo or Levi or Gillingham or... anyone.
Look up his WA ranking. Ok, I'll save you the trouble: he's not ranked.


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## Arrowbender (Nov 7, 2018)

Dewboy said:


> Dudley made the comment that you would not have to shim it like previous models and it should tune right out of the box with no shimming needed. Some folks commenting here act as if they haven't even watched the videos. Watch the videos and then ask questions. If you pay attention, the videos answer most of the questions that have been asked here.


Ah, it's tuned right out of the box for anyone regardless of draw weight or length or arrow choices, Dudley said so. Sorry Lees, you were right, I take it back, Dudley's fortunately putting em all together hisownself. Not marketing at all but sheer engineering genius.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Arrowbender said:


> That kind of ignores the point.
> He's not being used for whatever his achievements are, or aren't.
> 
> He's being used because his branding is so strong through youtube and whatnot, that I've seen someone at one point on here claim with a straight face that he's an olympic archer. It's not even the same discipline.
> ...


Did you know that JD shot Olympic recurve for a while? He even got coaching from a member of the Brazilian team, IIRC. He didn’t compete with it, but he learned enough of it to get a first-hand idea of the differences between it and compound. That’s a perspective that not every compound shooter has.

Anyway, you get the idea. Love him or hate him, he’s not your average Joe Blow with just a good line of BS. As for why he’s not a spot or competitive shooter anymore, he’s been abundantly clear about why, so if you’re curious, just ask him and he’ll tell you.

Finally, good branding doesnt necessarily mean engineering has been neglected. Tho your quite right to be suspicious of course. But you do have to sell bows if you want to keep designing and selling new ones. If anything, that keeps funding for more R&D coming in, which you have to have. You can’t build good products without a good source of income.

lee.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Dewboy said:


> Dudley made the comment that you would not have to shim it like previous models and it should tune right out of the box with no shimming needed. Some folks commenting here act as if they haven't even watched the videos. Watch the videos and then ask questions. If you pay attention, the videos answer most of the questions that have been asked here.


Yep I heard that too. But I’ve heard that b4 and found it wasn’t true so I’ll believe it when I see it.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

TangoGorilla said:


> The reson for the no resins was not a covid thing... it was a Texas ice storm thing that froze pipes in the dow chemical plant. Effectively shutting it down for months and destroying most of thier storage. It shut down composites and coatings industry in the us.


I know that, don't think I mentioned it was a covid issue?
We buy all kinds of resin so I'm well aware of what is going on.


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## BIP (Apr 30, 2013)

jo3st3 said:


> Have you gone to a TAC event? I didn't meet anyone like that. They were all serious hunters and 3D shooters that wanted a challenge and an excuse to have fun on the mountain with their friends and family. I thought it was fun and would definitely go to future events. Decent challenge, and makes normal hunting shots seem really easy.


You haven’t been to many TAC shoots…..


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## nightvision (Aug 30, 2011)

SwVaHntr said:


> Hoyt hasn't released their 2022 bow, my guess it will be above 2k, and isn't made in the USA....so have at it


And will be stuck in a cargo ship for who knows how long!!!!


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

SwVaHntr said:


> I know that, don't think I mentioned it was a covid issue?
> We buy all kinds of resin so I'm well aware of what is going on.


My post was just trying to head off the people blaming it on covid. Most people have no clue, even a significant part of the industry don't know/ don't want to know. Easier to just blame covid.
It got really bad for a while in coatings. Product was not available for 6+ months. Then came the price increase of almost 100% which is amazing when you stop to think about just how little of the resin there is in coatings. In some products its less than 1/2 oz per gallon.


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## Arrowbender (Nov 7, 2018)

lees said:


> Did you know that JD shot Olympic recurve for a while? He even got coaching from a member of the Brazilian team, IIRC. He didn’t compete with it, but he learned enough of it to get a first-hand idea of the differences between it and compound. That’s a perspective that not every compound shooter has.


Come on, Lees. I shot Olympic recurve for a while, and didn't compete with it, and learned enough of it to get a first-hand idea of the differences between it and compound. 
Huh? So?
So have you, or am I remembering wrong? We're designing for PSE now?

Yes, he's good. Yes, he's incredibly helpful. Yes, I have respect for him. But no, I don't buy that PSE is paying him for his engineering skills rarther this rep and marketing skills.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Arrowbender said:


> Come on, Lees. I shot Olympic recurve for a while, and didn't compete with it, and learned enough of it to get a first-hand idea of the differences between it and compound.
> Huh? So?
> So have you, or am I remembering wrong? We're designing for PSE now?
> 
> Yes, he's good. Yes, he's incredibly helpful. Yes, I have respect for him. But no, I don't buy that PSE is paying him for his engineering skills rarther this rep and marketing skills.


Well we’re more in agreement now than disagreement at this point so I think our relative points have been made. In saying all that, the levitate is the first hunting bow that turned my head at all in about the last 20 years, but I’d need a 50lb limb version if I were to be able to get one. That might not even be available as custom order, so I may not be able to get one at all. I like some of the Dud improvements on it tho….

lee.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Why does every thread about bows turn into something like an angry mob outside a Walmart on Black Friday?

Let's see... we've got rants about economics, manufacturing, China, capitalism, COVID, explanations on what engineers do, what it's like to go to TAC (as a dig at younger people), JD's credentials, blaming the spokesman for any BS ones imagination can come up with for that matter, recurve bows, Mathews bows, hell, any bow made in the last 20 years, politics, government checks, employment, and hourly wages at McDonalds... and that's just the cliff notes version.

I don't care if the thing arrived here on a flo green spaceship from 23 light years away, and it was built by a martian with 800 one armed engineers that never shot a bow, and Bigfoot killed JFK and went to TAC with a backwards hat... I'm just checking out a bow and whether it's a good product and would be cool to shoot it.

Anyone want to talk about the PSE Levity? Did you shoot it? Have you even held it? Did you watch any reviews on it? What did you think of the BOW?


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

jo3st3 said:


> Why does every thread about bows turn into something like an angry mob outside a Walmart on Black Friday?
> 
> Let's see... we're got rants about economics, supply and demand, manufacturing processes, capitalism, COVID, explanations on what engineers do, what it's like to go to TAC as a dig at younger people, JD's credentials in some way to discredit the guy, blaming the spokesman for any BS ones imagination can come up with for that matter, recurve bows, Mathews bows, hell, any bow made in the last 20 years comes up, and even politics.
> 
> ...


What you fail to understand is that your straightforward approach to focusing only on a bow that few have even shot is not the AT way and frankly not that much fun. It’s far more entertaining to see people debate all matter of topics that might even be loosely tied to a bow release, especially when we have almost no real world or independent reviews and most of us won’t even be able to get our hands on one for a while (or won’t try because we are too busy hunting when we aren’t working). Add the Dudley factor and it makes it even more fun. BTW, the dude can shoot even though he hasn’t competed in a long time.


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## Oceanland (Jul 26, 2017)

Dewboy said:


> Dudley made the comment that you would not have to shim it like previous models and it should tune right out of the box with no shimming needed. Some folks commenting here act as if they haven't even watched the videos. Watch the videos and then ask questions. If you pay attention, the videos answer most of the questions that have been asked here.


Yeah, I saw that. But ”should tune right out of box” is very far from will tune for everyone without adjusting. Or possibilities to tune it.

Like some funny Darton bows that ”should tune right out of box” too, but shoot all over the place depending on who is shooting.

Or then one must adapt to bow instead of tuning the bow to the shooter.

It would for sure be nice if the bow would actually tune out of box to everyone, but it seems too good to be true.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Predator said:


> What you fail to understand is that your straightforward approach to focusing only on a bow that few have even shot is not the AT way and frankly not that much fun. It’s far more entertaining to see people debate all matter of topics that might even be loosely tied to a bow release, especially when we have almost no real world or independent reviews and most of us won’t even be able to get our hands on one for a while (or won’t try because we are too busy hunting when we aren’t working). Add the Dudley factor and it makes it even more fun. BTW, the dude can shoot even though he hasn’t competed in a long time.


I think there needs to be a new forum channel called get it off your chest... just let people rant. 🍿

BTW, this bow looks like it came from the US stealth program at Area 51 where it's rumored they were reverse engineering UFOs in the nearby mountains... so it might actually be from another planet. There's no other explanation to how they got a carbon bow this light to not feel like crap being shot...


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## agwrestler (Dec 31, 2010)

😉


jo3st3 said:


> I don't care if the thing arrived here on a flo green spaceship from 23 light years away, and it was built by a martian with 800 one armed engineers that never shot a bow, and Bigfoot killed JFK and went to TAC with a backwards hat... I'm just checking out a bow and whether it's a good product and would be cool to shoot it.


...as long as it's not a flat brim. That's where I draw the line!


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## -bowfreak- (Oct 18, 2006)

I am sure many people will love the bow, but those PSE carbon risers are very hard to look at....


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

Well here is another distraction. Lets Go Brandon! If he has anything to say about it a China made Hoyt will be better.


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## JFerg3 (Aug 24, 2013)

There are plenty of $1000 bows that will kill deer just as well. Sorry, but the prices are getting a bit ridiculous...


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Alrighty...I went down to the local archery shop to pick up my "Traverse"..with cash in my pocket for a new PSE Leviate..The bow was set up for me at #60 lbs at 29 inches..3 shots and I hung the bow back up on the rack..The good and bad for me.1st when I went to draw the bow back it took a lot of strength to start the cycle.Then my wrist strap that is just fine for my Traverse started digging into my wrist at my set of 5 notches into the release..The pull on the draw for me was not a controlled draw that was smooth..I'm still putting strength into the draw almost to the little hump and dump...Now for the good at 85 percent once I got to anchor the bow felt really good in the hand.Once the shot went off I could hardly feel in recoil or anything really it felt really good and I loved it...So for those of you that shoot cams that are somewhat radical I believe you will love the bow...In a hunting siuation many times my draw is very slow to my anchor..It won't happen with this bow and I was bummed out...SO...I'm getting my traverse dialed in and a customer was set up on another leviate..He took 5 shots and turned around and bought a Mach 1 as I was leaving the shop..That's my day how was yours?


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Chamacat said:


> Alrighty...I went down to the local archery shop to pick up my "Traverse"..with cash in my pocket for a new PSE Leviate..The bow was set up for me at #60 lbs at 29 inches..3 shots and I hung the bow back up on the rack..The good and bad for me.1st when I went to draw the bow back it took a lot of strength to start the cycle.Then my wrist strap that is just fine for my Traverse started digging into my wrist at my set of 5 notches into the release..The pull on the draw for me was not a controlled draw that was smooth..I'm still putting strength into the draw almost to the little hump and dump...Now for the good at 85 percent once I got to anchor the bow felt really good in the hand.Once the shot went off I could hardly feel in recoil or anything really it felt really good and I loved it...So for those of you that shoot cams that are somewhat radical I believe you will love the bow...In a hunting siuation many times my draw is very slow to my anchor..It won't happen with this bow and I was bummed out...SO...I'm getting my traverse dialed in and a customer was set up on another leviate..He took 5 shots and turned around and bought a Mach 1 as I was leaving the shop..That's my day how was yours?


Given the speed rating, I'm not surprised that the draw is stiff with a hump. If a bow draws nice and easy, it's going to be a turd on the chronograph. It's just the way it is.

Like yourself, people keep reporting it being fairly dead in the hands. And for a 3.6 pound carbon bow, that's impressive.

I bet the Mach 1 bows are getting major discounts now, and if someone shoots them side by side, they might prefer the differences in price over features.

Thanks for reporting what you found.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

Yeah


TangoGorilla said:


> My post was just trying to head off the people blaming it on covid. Most people have no clue, even a significant part of the industry don't know/ don't want to know. Easier to just blame covid.
> It got really bad for a while in coatings. Product was not available for 6+ months. Then came the price increase of almost 100% which is amazing when you stop to think about just how little of the resin there is in coatings. In some products its less than 1/2 oz per gallon.


Yeah I have a good friend that has a bedliner/coatings business, he was hurting for sure, if it wasn't for the powder coating he does he said he would of had to closed a little while waiting on catalyst, I put off having him do my truck color matched rock guard, and a liner.


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## mbtaylor (Oct 23, 2019)

Speaking of the new PSE levitate… There are a couple posts floating around the inter web showing there bow hitting the advertised speed with everything on the string (D-loop, peep, serving).


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

mbtaylor said:


> Speaking of the new PSE levitate… There are a couple posts floating around the inter web showing there bow hitting the advertised speed with everything on the string (D-loop, peep, serving).


That would be something. If that’s the case then the bow is rated way under its actual IBO, I just can’t see a bow company not milking all the speed they are getting and running with that in their advertising .


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## mbtaylor (Oct 23, 2019)

trial153 said:


> That would be something. If that’s the case then the bow is rated way under its actual IBO, I just can’t see a bow company not milking all the speed they are getting and running with that in their advertising .


All the EVO bows from 2019 came in over IBO. PSE tends to underrate their speeds. I think it’s smart from a marketing perspective. Gives educated customers confidence.


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

colinGarchery said:


> Anyone know what the msrp is gonna be?


If you gotta ask, you probably can't afford it! My guess is $1,899


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## Eagle26 (Aug 23, 2019)

mbtaylor said:


> All the EVO bows from 2019 came in over IBO. PSE tends to underrate their speeds. I think it’s smart from a marketing perspective. Gives educated customers confidence.


Yeah but there’s probably a lot more uneducated customers. I’m not sure if that marketing strategy will pay off. But it is nice to know the numbers aren’t inflated


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I believe the bow will IBO easily..You just have to have the shoulder and muscle structure to pull it off..Maybe quite a few of you knew that I had a severe tear in might right shoulder rotator cuff that knocked me out for 18 months..I can shoot the "Traverse" just fine but the levitate at #60 ate my lunch..For those of you that still can shoot these type cams enjoy it before your shoulder goes out with age..


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

Well I'm on the shorter end of DL at 28". I wonder what the short draw cams will be like? I do not want a bigger hump and dump. The Mach1 is looking better to me. I still want to try one though. Just to see.


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## ScopeRKT (Nov 27, 2011)

I’m 28.5, will try the standard one for sure but want to see how the short draw compares. It’ll take a lot to take my Bowtech Revolt X out of rotation.


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

2k plus is far better serving to my family. The cost of these (American made or not) is absolutely ludicrous.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep...I know this is a Levitate thread..I heard that the Mach 1 will continue for awhile longer and then there will be a new release of PSE carbon in January..Many here have already said that..So maybe I'll get another shot at it in January..If that don't work out either I can shoot the evolve cam just fine and will buy a Mach 1 on the spot..


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## wb_hunter (Sep 26, 2020)

Dewboy said:


> Your Ferocity has a speed rating of 320-328 and you're worried about how much speed the LEVITATE is going to give up when lowered to 27.5" to 28" draw length at 55 lbs? It's pretty safe to say the LEVITATE will hold up just as well as your FEROCITY did at the same draw length and weight. So it should still be 20 fps faster than your FEROCITY.


That's what I would expect, perhaps a bit less.
For the Ferocity, I measured around 240fps with 400gn, and 270fps with 270gn.
Even with 20fps more, not so impressive.
And thus no incentive to buy a bow 4 or 5 times the price of the Ferocity.


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## Goshawker1 (Aug 27, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


>


 Very nice


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## 168p&y (Nov 12, 2019)

RK4 said:


> Its a legit concern I had when the NTN dropped last year. Dudley comes in late and takes a design they worked on and fleshed out in the NXT, made some changes to their design they probably didnt agree with, stuck some flo green decals on it and he took all that glory. That had a hint of a slap in the face to it for those engineers. I think the Mach 1 was simply just the flo green stickers. This year, no mention of the PSE engineers who probably had to go to the ends of the earth juggling between physics and what they were being told they needed to make happen.
> 
> I think my favorite line on here so far is a guy who said "And when he recommends all these changes, instead of some nameless engineer that might not even hunt, it also brings more validity to the product and what works best in the field"
> 
> I honestly dont even know where to begin with that. We now want the soccer moms designing the mini vans because they drive them. What Dudley is doing in this is telling them where to put the cupholders. He isnt designing the engine and aerodynamics. If this bow is everything its cracked up to be, the highest end, best performing bow ever made - that seems like an accomplishment and they need to give the PSE engineers much more credit for it.


Guys he didn't come up with anything. They just copied Bomar machining products.


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## 168p&y (Nov 12, 2019)

I d love to see a mach 1 vs levitate battle. Ibo vs ibo. I bet you could shoot a Mach 1 at 73-74 lbs be the same speed and easier draw then a Levitate at 70.


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## Alaska at heart (Aug 25, 2009)

skyshark1985 said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


Have you seen the Hoyt carbon riser? From the first time I saw one, my lasting impression was a plumbing apprentice was left alone on the job site with pvc and adhesive. Compared to a stickbow, compounds are an ugly sister......and I own a few. They grow on you, but none are really nice looking compared to a custom wood riser of a recurve or longbow.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

whack n stack said:


> 2k plus is far better serving to my family. The cost of these (American made or not) is absolutely ludicrous.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


agree


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## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

modernwarfare3 said:


> But it is $1899.00?? wth! i would not pay that much for this bow. Spend that much you might as well get a Daniel Defense M4.lol


But that DD will probably go up in value, PSE not so much LOL


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## Errorhead (Oct 18, 2017)

168p&y said:


> I d love to see a mach 1 vs levitate battle. Ibo vs ibo. I bet you could shoot a Mach 1 at 73-74 lbs be the same speed and easier draw then a Levitate at 70.


Good idea, I own a Mach1 and have a Levitate ordered. I was told about three weeks, so soon as it gets here I’ll post up some numbers.


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## ThumbsMcGee86 (Aug 28, 2019)

So this thread levitated to AT top-tier status. People crying about the price vs people defending it. People hating JD vs people loving him.

It’s almost like everyone’s afraid to support anyone round here.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

ThumbsMcGee86 said:


> So this thread levitated to AT top-tier status. People crying about the price vs people defending it. People hating JD vs people loving him.
> 
> It’s almost like everyone’s afraid to support anyone round here.



Only in these modern cushy times do we have so little problems that people invent things to be upset about. Everyone has to be outraged about something, and that something is usually nothing.


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## 168p&y (Nov 12, 2019)

You have frugal and probably smart people in this economy not wanting to spend the money. You have people who 2000 is nothing. And you have others who have no idea that everything is about to go up 30% and will be shocked at 5.00 dollar gas. Honestly the carbon is nice love the light weight but the bow itself isn't as good as my old Obsession m7. I love the Mach 1 but it really doesnt do anything better then my 400 dollar m7. I like Dudley enjoyed his show guys good. But the new stuff isn't really new.


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

No one can deny that that new bow smell is awesome. Regardless of what brand. 🤣 🏹 🏹 🏹


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

cruizerjoy said:


> No one can deny that that new bow smell is awesome. Regardless of what brand. 🤣 🏹 🏹 🏹


When I was in my teens and went to get my 1st bow. The local bow shops owner smoked cigars all day long. My 1st 3 new bows all smelled like cigar smoke.


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

My 2020 Mach 1 was great, the 2021 models I have now are excellent and I watched the whole 58 minutes of Dudley explaining how awesome the new Levitate was. I think it will be a great bow, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm going to stick with my Mach 1's. I'm shooting better than I have in years, and see no reason to swap out when I'm completely in love with what I have. Took me a while to get here, no real reason to change it up now.


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

Super 91 said:


> My 2020 Mach 1 was great, the 2021 models I have now are excellent and I watched the whole 58 minutes of Dudley explaining how awesome the new Levitate was. I think it will be a great bow, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm going to stick with my Mach 1's. I'm shooting better than I have in years, and see no reason to swap out when I'm completely in love with what I have. Took me a while to get here, no real reason to change it up now.


I know how you feel. I have a Carbon air 34 that I have to try to make it shoot bad. Even when I know I am having a bad form day it still just stacks arrows. Sometimes I think we just chase rainbows and forget the pot of gold we already have.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

Probably gonna slap some SE cams on my Mach 1 and call it a day. I do like that color though….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NxNW (Mar 3, 2015)

So I read all 14 pages of this thread and have been thoroughly entertained.

I would like to encourage everyone expressing even the slightest interest or curiosity in this new PSE offering to rush out and buy it, immediately. If your pro shop doesn't have any yet, crack open that wallet, put 100% down, and place your order.

I, along with many others, will gladly sit back and monitor the classifieds for the inevitable flood of 1-2 year old flagship bows that will sell at 50% (or less) their original purchase price. 

It's truly a win-win for everyone... you get the "latest and greatest," the rest of us get "still great" at a fraction of the cost.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

NxNW said:


> So I read all 14 pages of this thread and have been thoroughly entertained.
> 
> I would like to encourage everyone expressing even the slightest interest or curiosity in this new PSE offering to rush out and buy it, immediately. If your pro shop doesn't have any yet, crack open that wallet, put 100% down, and place your order.
> 
> ...


I would never buy the a brand new bow with out shooting it.

That and I never buy the 1st model year of production of anything.... cars, trucks, guns, knives... anything. Let them work the kinks out then I will buy it.

If the bow does what it says, and its not a horrible bow to shoot. It would be on the short list for new bows to buy. Will I buy it all depends on how it compares to other offerings.

Pse only offering support for 3 years to me is very troubling and honestly my biggest hiccup to buying it. It's like how ktm did not warranty thier electronics about a decade ago. It made all of thier bikes junk in my mind. I am not asking for life time replacment parts, but a decade would be nice.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

I already have SE cams on my Mach 1 ..the new bow looks GREAT ..have to wait and see the Short 
draw version in January..wider limb pockets and new cam is cool ...but I love what I got


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## carletes47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Wishing to see real measurements of the bow, any new lucky owner is encouraged to publish them here?


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## 168p&y (Nov 12, 2019)

cruizerjoy said:


> No one can deny that that new bow smell is awesome. Regardless of what brand. 🤣 🏹 🏹 🏹


I don't know every Mathews I owned smelled like they shot💩💩💩💩💩💩💩


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## lifeisgoodsteve (Oct 18, 2021)

Just back from test shooting the new Levitate (30"DL, 70lbs) alongside the RX5, RX5 Ultra and V3 31".

Disclaimer that I'm no expert, so just sharing my personal experience and preferences. Also, didn't have the bows fully set up so was just a short 5-7 yard shot in the shop to get a feel for them.

Was very comfortable drawing back the 70lbs. as I'm coming from a 65lb bow
RX5 was a more linear draw compared to the Levitate, which had more of a drop off towards the end (pretty obvious when looking at the cam profiles why they're different)
Levitate was super light - it's just so dramatic each time I picked it up after shooting one of the others. Hiking miles in the mountains and through deadfall timber, saving 1lb for hours on end is mighty tempting.
Levitate fitment was great and very natural for me. The RX5's also both fit quite well. I expected the Ultra to feel much better, but I actually really liked the standard RX5. Was a bit weird picking up the smaller RX5 though yet finding it so noticeably heavier than the levitate.
Looks - online I was not getting into the looks, but in person I kind of dug the minimalism and simplicity of the shape. Was shooting the black with subalpine limbs.
Stability - the RX5 seemed to be slightly more stable when at full draw, as one would expect with an extra lb. Same with super light hunting rifles, but with practice I was able to learn to shoot my light rifles well too. Levitate was still very comfortable and stable.
Quiet - hard to tell in small, enclosed space, but it sure seemed quiet to me and not too different than the others.
Speed - didn't run through chrono
Big temptations for me to pull the trigger on the Levitate vs. RX5:

Light weight - real life hunting it just is so nice to carry less weight, especially in your hand.
this pragmatic element outweighs, for me, any aesthetic question marks I might have, though the looks were growing on me (maybe in reaction to how nice it felt)

Draw Length flexibility - the Levitate range works well for me, as with the RX5 maxed out at 30" I actually felt like I wanted a slightly longer draw.
Big question is the 1lb. worth it for the money, for me? We will see probably next week...


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## 1faith (Dec 8, 2010)

SwVaHntr said:


> Hoyt hasn't released their 2022 bow, my guess it will be above 2k, and isn't made in the USA....so have at it


So what make's you think Hoyt would have that much of a price increase and secondly, what do you think resell on the Hoyt will be vs the PSE ?


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Errorhead said:


> Good idea, I own a Mach1 and have a Levitate ordered. I was told about three weeks, so soon as it gets here I’ll post up some numbers.


Shot the two side by side tonight. The levitate at 76/29 and the Mach 1 at 69/30. The levitate draws just as easy (imo) with a little more hump and the end, and it was 10 FPS faster. Figure the lbs vs DL even each other out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JSTTH5US (Dec 12, 2012)

TangoGorilla said:


> If people buy it, its price correctly. If I can get a sub 6# bow in hunt config with everything but arrows, I would pay 2k. Not necessarily for this bow, but 2k to be 1.5ish lbs lighter. That's not even a question. The questions are, will it do what it says it will do and how does it shoot.
> 
> These are not questions we are going to get answered any time this year.


My SR6 weighs in at 5.2 lbs loaded with everything except arrows in quiver. I did the titanium bolt upgrade that Firenock has. Still less than half the price of the Levitate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

1faith said:


> So what make's you think Hoyt would have that much of a price increase and secondly, what do you think resell on the Hoyt will be vs the PSE ?


Material and shipping costs have skyrocketed, some price increases are beyond the manufacturers control.
2021 Mach 1 was cheaper than the 2021 RX5, to just say oh the rx5 is cheaper no **** when you compare last year's model to a new bow.
This is what PSE would call a custom bow, and not part of the standard PSE line, PSE will release their version at a later date, and I bet when hoyt gets theirs from China it will be higher than either of the pse bows
Don't care about resale, if I don't keep a bow for years I give them to friends or relatives, right now I have 6
2022 Nock on levitate listed 1899.00
2021 Hoyt RX5 listed 1795.00.
Not much difference.


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

NxNW said:


> So I read all 14 pages of this thread and have been thoroughly entertained.
> 
> I would like to encourage everyone expressing even the slightest interest or curiosity in this new PSE offering to rush out and buy it, immediately. If your pro shop doesn't have any yet, crack open that wallet, put 100% down, and place your order.
> 
> ...


I've been one of those in the past that have sat back and purchased the used bows after the honeymoon had worn off or after the new models hit the racks and folks started selling their year old bows to help fund the new model. That has worked great for me up until now. But with PSE's new warranty and parts availability decisions, Owning a bow without warranty just doesn't look as appealing to me as it once did. Back when parts were available, you could stock parts for future needs. You could basically be your own warranty service. For example, I have enough spare parts to keep most of my PSE bows going for a long, long time. Even my Full Throttle (Limbs & cams). I've even got my old Moneymakers covered.

But I'm thinking that stockpiling parts probably isn't going to be an option for PSE going forward (I hope I'm wrong!). So a factory warranty may look better to me now than it did in years past "IF" PSE actually keeps parts in stock long enough to cover warranty claims. I guess we really won't know for sure until a couple of years down the road. I can say that for "me", the reliability of the warranty would be the number two determining factor in deciding whether to drop $1900 on a new PSE. Number one would be whether or not I could come up with the extra $1900 for a new bow. 

I feel that I also need to mention the used bow prices. I have seen even older 2008-2015 used bows surge in price over the past years and a half! Just before COVID hit, used bow prices had gotten really low and then shortly after the "pandemic" hit, prices rebounded and started getting on the high side. If this trend continues, you won't see much of a discount for a used LEVITATE in 1 to 2 years. And paying high prices for bows that don't have a warranty is No Bueno! And if you can't get parts to maintain it yourself, buying used starts looking even worse.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

Dewboy said:


> I've been one of those in the past that have sat back and purchased the used bows after the honeymoon had worn off or after the new models hit the racks and folks started selling their year old bows to help fund the new model. That has worked great for me up until now. But with PSE's new warranty and parts availability decisions, Owning a bow without warranty just doesn't look as appealing to me as it once did. Back when parts were available, you could stock parts for future needs. You could basically be your own warranty service. For example, I have enough spare parts to keep most of my PSE bows going for a long, long time. Even my Full Throttle (Limbs & cams). I've even got my old Moneymakers covered.
> 
> But I'm thinking that stockpiling parts probably isn't going to be an option for PSE going forward (I hope I'm wrong!). So a factory warranty may look better to me now than it did in years past "IF" PSE actually keeps parts in stock long enough to cover warranty claims. I guess we really won't know for sure until a couple of years down the road. I can say that for "me", the reliability of the warranty would be the number two determining factor in deciding whether to drop $1900 on a new PSE. Number one would be whether or not I could come up with the extra $1900 for a new bow.
> 
> I feel that I also need to mention the used bow prices. I have seen even older 2008-2015 used bows surge in price over the past years and a half! Just before COVID hit, used bow prices had gotten really low and then shortly after the "pandemic" hit, prices rebounded and started getting on the high side. If this trend continues, you won't see much of a discount for a used LEVITATE in 1 to 2 years. And paying high prices for bows that don't have a warranty is No Bueno! And if you can't get parts to maintain it yourself, buying used starts looking even worse.


Well then I guess we can look forward to not seeing your essays in pse threads anymore.
I'd run right now and get rid of it all.


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## kjboudreau14 (Nov 11, 2014)

People spend $1,900 on golf memberships and need to renew them every season. And you can play just as much golf at your local muni. They still do it without the flack from others on the golfwrx and similar forums. 

shoot what makes you smile. If you are strictly a hunter then maybe this price tag doesnt make sense. If you have a passion for archery outside of just hunting, then it can be more feasible.

who frickin cares.


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## ProXXX (Oct 12, 2010)

This bow is the same riser as mach 1, with a non adjustable cable guard and looks like cams from embark. Not going to pull me away from my mach 1.


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## KRW (Oct 30, 2011)

Has anyone tried to get a Mach 1 to a 31” draw for themselves or their customers ? Was wondering if getting an 80lb putting couple twists in the cables and backing off the limb bolts would get a longer draw maybe to 31? I would like a new levitate but to get a used mach1 at about 1/2 the price is entertaining although need 31” , not sure it’s possible or how it would shoot


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## farmcritter (Jul 23, 2011)

JSTTH5US said:


> My SR6 weighs in at 5.2 lbs loaded with everything except arrows in quiver. I did the titanium bolt upgrade that Firenock has. Still less than half the price of the Levitate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I sent you a pm regarding this kit!


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

SwVaHntr said:


> Well then I guess we can look forward to not seeing your essays in pse threads anymore.
> I'd run right now and get rid of it all.


 If you don't like them, you don't have to read my "essays". You can just look at the pictures on AT. I don't know what I said to get your panties in a wad, but I guess you couldn't deal with it like a grown up and felt the need to complain about my posts being too long. Atleast I have the ability to write and I don't mind reading either. When you see posts with multiple paragraphs, just skip to the next post. It's as simple as that. I bet you really hate books. You probably never read one in your life. This is a discussion forum. If you don't like to read, you can always search out the photo threads or just go watch the cartoons.

I keep up with the used bow prices and parts availability more than most do. I'm not sure if you got what I was trying to convey or not. Your reading comprehension is probably lacking, but I basically said that buying used (PSE) these days may be a more risky proposition than previous years. If that's all it takes to set you off, I pity the folks that have to deal with you on a daily basis. But I'm not going to stop posting just because some folks find it difficult to read multiple paragraphs. You will either have to just ignore me, or improve your reading level. I'm not going to dumb down or shorten my posts to suit folks like you. Deal with it or go watch cartoons.


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## carletes47 (Feb 10, 2010)

don't listen to the trolls, you are one of the 8 or 10 users who keep the forum interesting
If PSE at least sold cams like a few years ago, it would be much better, because a set of limbs appears from time to time due to power changes, the problem is the cams ...
the solution is to have several bows to distribute the wear lol


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## mm1615 (Nov 16, 2010)

Dewboy said:


> If you don't like them, you don't have to read my "essays". You can just look at the pictures on AT. I don't know what I said to get your panties in a wad, but I guess you couldn't deal with it like a grown up and felt the need to complain about my posts being too long. Atleast I have the ability to write and I don't mind reading either. When you see posts with multiple paragraphs, just skip to the next post. It's as simple as that. I bet you really hate books. You probably never read one in your life. This is a discussion forum. If you don't like to read, you can always search out the photo threads or just go watch the cartoons.
> 
> I keep up with the used bow prices and parts availability more than most do. I'm not sure if you got what I was trying to convey or not. Your reading comprehension is probably lacking, but I basically said that buying used (PSE) these days may be a more risky proposition than previous years. If that's all it takes to set you off, I pity the folks that have to deal with you on a daily basis. But I'm not going to stop posting just because some folks find it difficult to read multiple paragraphs. You will either have to just ignore me, or improve your reading level. I'm not going to dumb down or shorten my posts to suit folks like you. Deal with it or go watch cartoons.


I would really be upset that after 2 years and my $2K bow has an issue that the replacement part is no longer available. It is a risky proposition for sure. Lifetime Warranty at that point is meaningless to me. That is one of the reasons Mathews bows appeal to me. Parts for every bow they have made are still available even if you are not the original owner. I think that is the reason their resale value is great. I am hoping that their 2022 bows have an improved draw cycle and don’t cost 2k so that I may consider them. If not, to the resale market I go.


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## mm1615 (Nov 16, 2010)

On a separate note, I visited one of the largest shops in SoCal yesterday and they have not received a Levitate as of yet. They said PSE is not answering their call or email. Very few have had a chance to shoot this bow and I am looking forward to reading an honest review. Not one done by a benefactor. The ones done on this thread have been good so far.


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## NxNW (Mar 3, 2015)

Dewboy, you make a fair and well-articulated point regarding PSE parts/warranties. As an owner of 5 out of production PSE bows (2 PSE compounds, 2 Archery Research compounds, and 1 PSE recurve), I'm already living that reality. I think both original owners and used buyers will get the short end of the stick if PSE imposes a miniscule 2-3 year planned obsolescence. 

I will add that I think you are making an incorrect assumption... that the success of the Levitate will only produce a glut of PSE products on the used market, or that those of us watching the used market are only looking for Mach-1s or Carbon Airs or NXTs. If this new bow is all that it is cracked up to be, we will see flagship bows from all the major players hit the classifieds. As noted here in this thread, other manufacturers (Mathews in particular) do a much better job of supporting their older models.

Regarding the price of used archery eqipment, yes it has increased, but so has the price of everything. The current mis-administration is still insisting on calling this "transitory inflation." It's not looking so "transitory" to most who are paying attention.


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

mm1615 said:


> On a separate note, I visited one of the largest shops in SoCal yesterday and they have not received a Levitate as of yet. They said PSE is not answering their call or email. Very few have had a chance to shoot this bow and I am looking forward to reading an honest review. Not one done by a benefactor. The ones done on this thread have been good so far.


Just so everyone knows. I talked to my rep a out the communication problem. PSE's phones, email, dealer website, and tune chart website have all been down since Wednesday. They are working to get everything back up. 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## 620 FPS (Aug 10, 2020)

colinGarchery said:


> Anyone know what the msrp is gonna be?


Prolly more than a normal person can afford haha.


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

mm1615 said:


> I would really be upset that after 2 years and my $2K bow has an issue that the replacement part is no longer available. It is a risky proposition for sure. Lifetime Warranty at that point is meaningless to me. That is one of the reasons Mathews bows appeal to me. Parts for every bow they have made are still available even if you are not the original owner. I think that is the reason their resale value is great. I am hoping that their 2022 bows have an improved draw cycle and don’t cost 2k so that I may consider them. If not, to the resale market I go.


Yea, Mathews parts availability is probably second to none. And although I am not interested in Mathews bows for other reasons, I give them their deserved credit for customer support and parts availability. I can't help but wonder how telling folks that they can no longer get limbs (if that really is the case) for their 3 or 4 year old PSE is going make those folks want to buy another PSE in the future. At this point, I'm not really sure "how long" a PSE warranty is good for. That's not bashing....that's just the truth. I just know that lifetime doesn't mean the lifetime of the owner. I wish they would be more definitive as to how long their warranty is good for. And for sure, I would like to know how long I can still get parts for the Levitate, or whatever new bow I purchased. If I can get in touch with someone at PSE, I will pose that question to them as see what they say. I would really want to know the answers to those questions before spending that much money on a bow.


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## HbDane (Sep 13, 2013)

mm1615 said:


> On a separate note, I visited one of the largest shops in SoCal yesterday and they have not received a Levitate as of yet. They said PSE is not answering their call or email. Very few have had a chance to shoot this bow and I am looking forward to reading an honest review. Not one done by a benefactor. The ones done on this thread have been good so far.


Riverside archery has them, or at least one .


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

You guys sure about the 3 year warranty?


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## carletes47 (Feb 10, 2010)

starting in january, PSE will sell less Dudley bows
hurry up lol


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

interesting thread


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

BucksnBass525 said:


> You guys sure about the 3 year warranty?


I think they were talking about discontinuing models every three years. Then the "lifetime" warranty is only good until the parts dry up. No parts no warranty. I think Mathews is the only manufacturer that keeps making parts for all of their bows. As far as I am concerned once a bow hits 5yr old its value is next to nothing anyway to resell and most are thinking of getting new anyway by then.


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## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

There’s a rumor going around that bowtech is going to launch a new carbon with deadlock cam system 32 ata ,6.5 brace 340 FPS 3.4 lbs 1195 $ map ! I’m sure the pse offering is nice but the price is crazy ! Time will tell !


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

Doebuster said:


> There’s a rumor going around that bowtech is going to launch a new carbon with deadlock cam system 32 ata ,6.5 brace 340 FPS 3.4 lbs 1195 $ map ! I’m sure the pse offering is nice but the price is crazy ! Time will tell !


If you’ve ever held or shot a bowtech Carbon you’d understand the price discrepancy between it and the levitate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gold54bs (Oct 24, 2021)

I’m can’t wait to try one out they look slick but going to have to be amazing for me to spend that money 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

I think all this talk about 3 year life cycles and replacement parts down the road is overblown. The vast majority of people that walk into a bow shop think nothing of replacement parts. In fact I can not remember one single time ANYONE asked about if replacement parts would be available in 3-4 years as part of their buying decision. When something did go wrong with their 8 year old bow and they called about it and it was explained that the bow was no longer made and parts weren’t available yes they were upset for about 1 minute then they started talking about a new bow and it because a selling moment.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

4IDARCHER said:


> I think all this talk about 3 year life cycles and replacement parts down the road is overblown. The vast majority of people that walk into a bow shop think nothing of replacement parts. In fact I can not remember one single time ANYONE asked about if replacement parts would be available in 3-4 years as part of their buying decision. When something did go wrong with their 8 year old bow and they called about it and it was explained that the bow was no longer made and parts weren’t available yes they were upset for about 1 minute then they started talking about a new bow and it because a selling moment.


For me if I have an issue in 5 years, and parts are not available, the bow company had better replaced it with a new bow or I will never buy form that company again.

Now if its 10 years I can understand that, but not 5.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

TangoGorilla said:


> For me if I have an issue in 5 years, and parts are not available, the bow company had better replaced it with a new bow or I will never buy form that company again.
> 
> Now if its 10 years I can understand that, but not 5.


I understand, and that is smart, but I don’t think many think about that when buying a bow, and I feel most manufacturers (correctly so) think that as new younger people grow into flagship bow buying age they have been used to their products quickly becoming obsolete such as their electronics.


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

TangoGorilla said:


> For me if I have an issue in 5 years, and parts are not available, the bow company had better replaced it with a new bow or I will never buy form that company again.
> 
> Now if its 10 years I can understand that, but not 5.


Chances are there will still be parts in that length of time if it wasnt a model with problems to begin with.


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## mm1615 (Nov 16, 2010)

4IDARCHER said:


> I understand, and that is smart, but I don’t think many think about that when buying a bow, and I feel most manufacturers (correctly so) think that as new younger people grow into flagship bow buying age they have been used to their products quickly becoming obsolete such as their electronics.


 A 2k bow is not something most new people buy. I agree most don’t think of replacement parts when making a decision but I for one keep my bows for a long time and dropping 2k and knowing they will discontinue parts for it in two or three years is a no go. Some buy new and sell in less than a year. That’s ok as well. To each their own.


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

TangoGorilla said:


> For me if I have an issue in 5 years, and parts are not available, the bow company had better replaced it with a new bow or I will never buy form that company again.
> 
> Now if its 10 years I can understand that, but not 5.


i to think somewhere around 4 or 5 years is not to much to ask , especially when these bows now are costing in the thousand of dollors..


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

TangoGorilla said:


> For me if I have an issue in 5 years, and parts are not available, the bow company had better replaced it with a new bow or I will never buy form that company again.
> 
> Now if its 10 years I can understand that, but not 5.


yea when something goes wrong with an 8 year old bow you cant complain you got your use,when something goes wrong with a 2 year old bow that you paid 2 grand for thats a different game


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

luke308 said:


> i to think somewhere around 4 or 5 years is not to much to ask , especially when these bows now are costing in the thousand of dollors..


They have been a grand for a long time.
The Mach 5 was 1100.00 in 1995


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

SwVaHntr said:


> They have been a grand for a long time.
> The Mach 5 was 1100.00 in 1995


yea i guess everyone has a different budget, but i cant upgrade a 2000 + bow every couple years.but thats me


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## jmike00 (Jan 6, 2018)

There's one thing I'll never understand and it still holds true in regards to the Levitate. PSE seems almost immune to major criticism when it comes the pricing of their carbon line up. For years we've seen Hoyt get absolutely trashed by reviewers and both Hoyt fans and fans of the competition specifically for the price of their carbon line up. It's not been subtle and often is used just to be able to knock them down a few points. How often have we seen a flagship bow shoot out where Hoyt's entry is a carbon model but the PSE entry is the aluminum counterpart to their carbon and one of the biggest negatives against the Hoyt is it's price

I mean.....imagine if this was a Hoyt release and they were the ones to first introduce a $2k carbon bow rather than it be PSE. This thread would be 35 pages and the mods would be extremely busy playing whack-a-mole with post deletions. Especially if Hoyt chose to include a cable slide on a $2k hunting bow.


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## RK4 (Oct 4, 2018)

PSE gets a bit of a pass because their carbon bows are both actually carbon, and made in the USA. Hoyts 3/4 chinese carbon risers and some of their marketing choices leave them open for more criticism. But both of them are absurdly overpriced when compared to the performance of aluminum.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

luke308 said:


> yea i guess everyone has a different budget, but i cant upgrade a 2000 + bow every couple years.but thats me


You are not the only one!!!!!


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

4IDARCHER said:


> I think all this talk about 3 year life cycles and replacement parts down the road is overblown. The vast majority of people that walk into a bow shop think nothing of replacement parts. In fact I can not remember one single time ANYONE asked about if replacement parts would be available in 3-4 years as part of their buying decision. When something did go wrong with their 8 year old bow and they called about it and it was explained that the bow was no longer made and parts weren’t available yes they were upset for about 1 minute then they started talking about a new bow and it because a selling moment.


This is were I am at. A 10 year old bow **** the bed now I am shopping. Tough pill at first but I get a new bow.


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

4IDARCHER said:


> I understand, and that is smart, but I don’t think many think about that when buying a bow, and I feel most manufacturers (correctly so) think that as new younger people grow into flagship bow buying age they have been used to their products quickly becoming obsolete such as their electronics.


Yes, but keep this in context. We are talking about a $1900 bow. "IF" No parts in 5 years, I'm not buying. If it were a $600-$700 bow, OK. Maybe.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

jmike00 said:


> There's one thing I'll never understand and it still holds true in regards to the Levitate. PSE seems almost immune to major criticism when it comes the pricing of their carbon line up. For years we've seen Hoyt get absolutely trashed by reviewers and both Hoyt fans and fans of the competition specifically for the price of their carbon line up. It's not been subtle and often is used just to be able to knock them down a few points. How often have we seen a flagship bow shoot out where Hoyt's entry is a carbon model but the PSE entry is the aluminum counterpart to their carbon and one of the biggest negatives against the Hoyt is it's price
> 
> I mean.....imagine if this was a Hoyt release and they were the ones to first introduce a $2k carbon bow rather than it be PSE. This thread would be 35 pages and the mods would be extremely busy playing whack-a-mole with post deletions. Especially if Hoyt chose to include a cable slide on a $2k hunting bow.


Ya but hoyts carbon is a 5lb Chinese noodle bow with two giant aluminum pieces glued to each end with bondo smeared on it to smooth out the lines that Msrps for $1800 while their competitors aluminum bows for $1100 are lighter and faster. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jay99 (Feb 27, 2015)

I got the chance to shoot a Levitate today, it was a 60 lb max. The draw cycle was not bad considering it's 348ibo and high letoff, the dump into the valley wasn't bad. What surprised me the most is how well it aimed for being so light and how quiet / shock free it was. It wasn't impressive enough to want one, but to each their own.


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## johnno (Apr 11, 2006)

Dewboy said:


> No parts in 5 years and I'm not buying.


Not necessarily correct - I got a new cam for my FT this year - and it went out of production in 2016.


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## carletes47 (Feb 10, 2010)

full trottle is a separate matter, it is a specific cam and they stored some for length change, the omen cam was available until 2018 at least, and it was a bow from 2010-2011
now try to get limbs for a bow from 2010 to 2015 ... or another cam


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## Dewboy (Apr 19, 2005)

johnno said:


> Not necessarily correct - I got a new cam for my FT this year - and it went out of production in 2016.


That is good news about the Full Throttle cam since I have two. Did it come from PSE or from a dealer that had it in stock? I've got one extra set for mine and plenty of limbs. They were easy to find in years past. Limbs because folks were changing draw weights to better handle the short valley and the cams because folks were having to change draw length. Hopefully, there will at-least be limbs available for the LEVITATE. I'm seeing them for the EVOS and other newish bows.


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## Buckvoodoo (Jul 22, 2014)

TangoGorilla said:


> Dudleys name on it hurts it just as much as it helps.
> 
> I could careless who is attached too it, if its a good bow, its a good bow.
> 
> I ignore the hype and will wait for a few people to test it that are not in a position for financial gain. Those numbers I am waiting on, but I doubt we will see them this year.


What is all the negativity with Dudley? Not just your commens but MANY...


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

Buckvoodoo said:


> What is all the negativity with Dudley? Not just your commens but MANY...


I honestly don't know. I could careless about him one way or another. 

I do find it really odd that all of his videos on YouTube have the comments turned off.


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## Buckvoodoo (Jul 22, 2014)

JFerg3 said:


> If it were a Mathews Levitate, some of you would be shooting it out of your saddle today!


It was called the Mathews HELI'M.....and the new NOCK ON LEVITATE is gonna replace it....after some degenerates stole my truck. So YES, Mathews did make one.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

Doebuster said:


> There’s a rumor going around that bowtech is going to launch a new carbon with deadlock cam system 32 ata ,6.5 brace 340 FPS 3.4 lbs 1195 $ map ! I’m sure the pse offering is nice but the price is crazy ! Time will tell !





Deadeye1205 said:


> If you’ve ever held or shot a bowtech Carbon you’d understand the price discrepancy between it and the levitate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was going to say. One actually has to be careful when pressing a diamond or bowtech carbon the riser on those aren’t that strong 


My local dealer is selling them $1600 sold out right now 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Buckvoodoo said:


> What is all the negativity with Dudley?


The world is filled with negativity and folks looking to be outraged about almost anything. A minority of folks act like they have their own private archery club and noobs aren't wanted. And anything "flashy" or relatable to younger people, and commonly seen in other sports, makes them bitter. God forbid the guy tries to support his family, and start a business that employees people in his community, with the sport he loves. You'd think the hundreds of hours worth of free instruction online would be enough to solidify some respect.

The hunting community needs to stick together to defend their rights, and to grow the community so it has a voice. People helping make that happen should be supported. They not only grow the sport (as people continue to leave it), but also make the sport profitable for more US based businesses. If you don't support others in the archery community like this, you may as well say you don't support your right to hunt, freedom, and the American dream. People that haven't figured that out yet should figure it out.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

TangoGorilla said:


> I honestly don't know. I could careless about him one way or another.
> 
> I do find it really odd that all of his videos on YouTube have the comments turned off.


It's a requirement if you want your videos to be approved for all ages, including children.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


> It's a requirement if you want your videos to be approved for all ages, including children.


Which only applies to the age of 14. How many sub 14 year olds are watching his videos?

The only channels I have seen that are used by adults that have thier comment section turned off... well let's just say not many people on at would approve of them.


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

Also not like the age restricition ever stopped anyone. Makes it look more like he feels above interacting with audience which isn't necessarily true since the nockonarchery account on instagram does reply to some comments.


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## Cdn1 (Sep 3, 2015)

The bow looks sick… Dudley is the man, like him or hate him. He is the real deal. Passes along more information on archery and the craft than any other mother. Except possibly “ Nuts and Bolts”
The levitate looks like another great bow from PSE. To the OP thanks for sharing the video. Wonder how much I could get for my new EVL I bought in July? Lol kidding seriously though I’m gonna shoot the levitate just to check it out. 
As for the dud factor good for him for becoming the marketer extraordinaire he is. If you don’t like him don’t buy his green gear. Me personally the mans videos inspired me and helped me get over my TP and become a better archer. I like him


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

I never understood the Dudley hate, what else could you want from free content? The dude is a legit archery expert, proven professional shooter and coach.

I guess people like to chit on success anymore?

I own nothing of his at this point, but who better to support if you are buying high end hunting gear?

It is a sweet bow, I however will likely never own one.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

smau990 said:


> Also not like the age restricition ever stopped anyone. Makes it look more like he feels above interacting with audience which isn't necessarily true since the nockonarchery account on instagram does reply to some comments.


You can post comments all you want on Instagram, Facebook, and wherever else their company is online... just not on YouTube for all ages content.


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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


> You can post comments all you want on Instagram, Facebook, and wherever else their company is online... just not on YouTube for all ages content.



Still smells funny. The only channels that I have seen do that are people that can't take criticism.

Facebook/ insta allow you a bunch more control over post then you tube.


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## Cdn1 (Sep 3, 2015)

It appears that there are always people resentful of the other successes. It is unfortunate that humanity is always waiting and watching for someone great to fall from greatness just to say “see I told ya they weren’t great.” It’s shameful. We should all admire a persons ability to be great and let it inspire ourselves to try to be great at the things we are most passionate about. Not an easy concept for most of us these days myself included. 
None of us has to drink dud’s kool aid. But it’s great that he makes his kool aid and offers all of us a taste. If you like it, buy it,..if not you had your taste, Take a pass on it…but don’t sour its taste for others because you didn’t like it.


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## mbtaylor (Oct 23, 2019)

Shot the Levitate today. It was set at 70lb (didn’t check the draw weight, but it’s what the shop told me and what the tag said). It was also set at 28.5”. I am a 30” draw but didn’t want to bother the shop owner to set it my length. He offered, but I declined.

The cam looks very aggressive, but it honestly didn’t feel bad at all. A little bump at the end of the cycle, but not a harsh feel. It has a little kick after shot, but not really any residual vibration. With a 390grain arrow it shot 307 through the chronograph. I didn’t check the draw weight so take that with a grain of salt. It for sure wasn’t pulling over 70lb. It felt pretty easy to draw so it might have been a couple pounds light on the draw. Hard to say since I didn’t get it checked.

overall I was impressed. Not $1900 impressed, but impressed none the less. The shop did say PSE is suppose to have their own new carbon (non nock on).


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

mbtaylor said:


> The shop did say PSE is suppose to have their own new carbon (non nock on).


I would be surprised to see PSE make multiple carbon risers. So my guess is it will be the same bow without the Nock On logos. What do you think?


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

jo3st3 said:


> I would be surprised to see PSE make multiple carbon risers. So my guess is it will be the same bow without the Nock On logos. What do you think?


A longer ATA Carbon, they already have the Mach 1... Unless they are dropping that bow. However, they still need a longer ATA carbon in their lineup.


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..The way I'm understanding the Mach 1 is that it will be discontinued at the end of 2021..If the new carbon comes out with the E2 cam It won't work for me...Does anybody think or know if the evolve cam is going away in 2022?


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..The way I'm understanding the Mach 1 is that it will be discontinued at the end of 2021..If the new carbon comes out with the E2 cam It won't work for me...Does anybody think or know if the evolve cam is going away in 2022?


have no idea but maybe the EC is replaced with the E2?? I really don't think they can get rid of the SE or EM cam as those are all on the target bows. Wha't will be interesting is what cam they use for the short draw levitate, will it be the SE cam, EM cam or a new smaller design based on the E2 ??


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..The way I'm understanding the Mach 1 is that it will be discontinued at the end of 2021..If the new carbon comes out with the E2 cam It won't work for me...Does anybody think or know if the evolve cam is going away in 2022?


The evolve cams are staying on the target lineup and the EVL series. 

The E2 cam is going to be on the new hunting line.

And, they ARE releasing a short draw version of that cam in January. 

They are also releasing (as someone mentioned above) a non nock on version of the levitate. It will replace the mach 1. This will not be a longer ATA version.

The longer ATA version of the carbon is still in the works, but won't drop until next summer. PSE now is spreading out their launches across the whole year and doing different launches quarterly

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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Thanks for the info...What cam do you think on the Non Nock version for 2022?


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## chenashot (May 4, 2010)

Chamacat said:


> Thanks for the info...What cam do you think on the Non Nock version for 2022?


Not sure on that, guessing the new E2 but can't confirm

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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

chenashot said:


> Not sure on that, guessing the new E2 but can't confirm
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Yep...That is exactly the information I need..If indeed PSE puts an E2 cam on the new mach 1..It is a cam that is above my physical ability to shoot..SO...As soon as I can bottom out in the next 60-62 days on what cam will be on the non nock version I will just have to wait and see...If I can find out before January I would certainly appreciate it from anyone out there..If they put the E2 cam on for January..I will instantly order a discontinued Mach 1..But I got to do it before January..I already talked to my bow show today and they are lined up with me on this plan..In fact I tried the Levitate again today for the second time but it's over my ability to draw..Thanks Again


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

IVhunter said:


> A longer ATA Carbon, they already have the Mach 1... Unless they are dropping that bow. However, they still need a longer ATA carbon in their lineup.


I was told a 34” carbon bow with an E2 cam 


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

A short ata bow with an E2 cam 


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## Errorhead (Oct 18, 2017)

Chamacat said:


> Yep...That is exactly the information I need..If indeed PSE puts an E2 cam on the new mach 1..It is a cam that is above my physical ability to shoot..SO...As soon as I can bottom out in the next 60-62 days on what cam will be on the non nock version I will just have to wait and see...If I can find out before January I would certainly appreciate it from anyone out there..If they put the E2 cam on for January..I will instantly order a discontinued Mach 1..But I got to do it before January..I already talked to my bow show today and they are lined up with me on this plan..In fact I tried the Levitate again today for the second time but it's over my ability to draw..Thanks Again


Interesting, I’m surprised that the E2 cam is that much more aggressive than an EC evolve cam? Same poundage?


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## scottnhogan (Feb 12, 2020)

when it comes down to a little hump or draw cycle, lets keep in mind that the levitate is a hunting bow( at least that is what im getting it for) the extra speed is really nice, so if i want a target bow that is supper smooth then i would look at target bows, imo the levitate is was designed for the bow hunter in mind light, fast, and very accurate. cant wait to get one to add to my collection of mach 1's.


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## bowboxer22 (Jun 10, 2021)

Jonesy72 said:


> $1899...ouch


They can keep it at that price. 1000 top for any bow.


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

bowboxer22 said:


> They can keep it at that price. 1000 top for any bow.


I get what your saying. However, it seems most new bows are $1,200. Well, the ones I have been looking at.


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## bowboxer22 (Jun 10, 2021)

Elkdreamer21 said:


> I get what your saying. However, it seems most new bows are $1,200. Well, the ones I have been looking at.


Yes I agree but like this year I could boughtelite and hoyt v33 for for 999. So have to look around. But this 1300 and up is crazy.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

Yeah I know locally the V3’s are now 900 

One dealer told me he will be selling levitate for $1600 


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

RavinHood said:


> Yeah I know locally the V3’s are now 900
> 
> One dealer told me he will be selling levitate for $1600
> 
> ...


That is a very regional thing though. Here in Iowa (not sure why) almost every shop in the state charges MSRP (or very close). Never have been able to figure that one out, but good on all the shops for getting the most they can out of them.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

4IDARCHER said:


> That is a very regional thing though. Here in Iowa (not sure why) almost every shop in the state charges MSRP (or very close). Never have been able to figure that one out, but good on all the shops for getting the most they can out of them.


Yeah I know in Alabama I went in and they were selling V3s for more then MSRP I can’t do that in good conscience 


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## mm1615 (Nov 16, 2010)

Here in SoCal the local shop is asking for $1899. After 10% sales tax I’d be at $2089! I’m sure it’s a nice bow and I would love it for my mountain hunts but for that kind of money one can get a fully decked out setup. Can I afford it? Yes. Will I buy it? Most likely not. 1lbs is not worth $700 extra in my opinion. I think that if PSE had priced it around $1500-$1650 they would have sold many more than they will and would have made a killing. At this point I think few will buy it. I understand that the process for carbon bows is quite extensive but I think PSE got a little too greedy IMO.


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## supranaturalf1 (Oct 29, 2020)

mm1615 said:


> Here in SoCal the local shop is asking for $1899. After 10% sales tax I’d be at $2089! I’m sure it’s a nice bow and I would love it for my mountain hunts but for that kind of money one can get a fully decked out setup. Can I afford it? Yes. Will I buy it? Most likely not. 1lbs is not worth $700 extra in my opinion. I think that if PSE had priced it around $1500-$1650 they would have sold many more than they will and would have made a killing. At this point I think few will buy it. I understand that the process for carbon bows is quite extensive but I think PSE got a little too greedy IMO.


I just read an interesting article on the website Hunter’s Friend (it’s an archery store, one where I first learned about current modern compound bows a few years ago when I got into archery) called “The Big-Box Race to the Bottom,” you can find it via google search, but it illustrates why bows are getting more expensive. The gist is that when the manufacturer’s provide bows and gear to the big box stores (think Bass Pro, Cabela’s, etc) they actually get the short end of the stick. 

Aside from that, innovation costs money. Bows are not manufactured to the numbers we have for fishing gear, firearms, etc and as a result economies of scale of manufacturing doesn’t help. I think we shoulder a fair amount of the cost for R&D. At the same time, there are many great bows out there. Among the high end bows I don’t think there’s a bad one in the bunch, just like fly rods the bows are more capable than most anyone wielding them. As for me this is now on my short list - I started archery last year b/c my 11 yo son wanted to start hunting, and I wish I’d started earlier, I enjoy it a lot (I’ve put 26,000 shots through my VXR28 in one year…), for me, you only live once. Compared to how much I am spending on other gear and hunts one bow isn’t that expensive.

I wish Dudley the best with this - I’ve learned a lot from him on Youtube, podcasts etc and I don’t begrudge him. I’ve learned a lot from his freely sharing his knowledge and if he makes some money from me more power to him and God Bless. I think he is much more involved than some give him credit for…as an ex-racer I know how this process works. A lot of test drivers in the development of race cars are current and ex-racers who are able to push a car to the limit and let engineers know where they need to concentrate on development. Same for fly rods (I’ve particpated in beta test programs for fly rods and they use top guys like the late Lefty Kreh, Flip Pallot, Andy Mill, etc and I’ve witnessed how they drive a rod from rough prototype to finished rod first hand), mini vans, etc.

That said, buy it if you like it and can justify the cost, if not, there are so many great bows out there for less money. I can’t wait to get a backup bow either to my VXR or a primary bow and have my VXR as a backup bow.


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## mm1615 (Nov 16, 2010)

supranaturalf1 said:


> I just read an interesting article on the website Hunter’s Friend (it’s an archery store, one where I first learned about current modern compound bows a few years ago when I got into archery) called “The Big-Box Race to the Bottom,” you can find it via google search, but it illustrates why bows are getting more expensive. The gist is that when the manufacturer’s provide bows and gear to the big box stores (think Bass Pro, Cabela’s, etc) they actually get the short end of the stick.
> 
> Aside from that, innovation costs money. Bows are not manufactured to the numbers we have for fishing gear, firearms, etc and as a result economies of scale of manufacturing doesn’t help. I think we shoulder a fair amount of the cost for R&D. At the same time, there are many great bows out there. Among the high end bows I don’t think there’s a bad one in the bunch, just like fly rods the bows are more capable than most anyone wielding them. As for me this is now on my short list - I started archery last year b/c my 11 yo son wanted to start hunting, and I wish I’d started earlier, I enjoy it a lot (I’ve put 26,000 shots through my VXR28 in one year…), for me, you only live once. Compared to how much I am spending on other gear and hunts one bow isn’t that expensive.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you say. The only difference is that ALL the big bow manufacturers go through the SAME process of field testing and everything else that comes with the development of a bow. None just slap it together and say good to go. What we are paying more for is the carbon aspect of the bow. What each needs to ask is if it’s worth that much more to you. But in the end I still think this bow is very appealing and if I keep reading more reviews I might just covet the thing enough to buy it LOL.


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## HbDane (Sep 13, 2013)

mm1615 said:


> I agree with what you say. The only difference is that ALL the big bow manufacturers go through the SAME process of field testing and everything else that comes with the development of a bow. None just slap it together and say good to go. What we are paying more for is the carbon aspect of the bow. What each needs to ask is if it’s worth that much more to you. But in the end I still think this bow is very appealing and if I keep reading more reviews I might just covet the thing enough to buy it LOL.


I just ordered one the other day. I was on the edge because of the price but didn't really care. And then the wife walks in with a brand new pair of shoes. I looked at her and smiled.....the rest is history. Now the waiting game, for a Lefty..... 🤣


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Chamacat said:


> Yep...That is exactly the information I need..If indeed PSE puts an E2 cam on the new mach 1..It is a cam that is above my physical ability to shoot..SO...As soon as I can bottom out in the next 60-62 days on what cam will be on the non nock version I will just have to wait and see...If I can find out before January I would certainly appreciate it from anyone out there..If they put the E2 cam on for January..I will instantly order a discontinued Mach 1..But I got to do it before January..I already talked to my bow show today and they are lined up with me on this plan..In fact I tried the Levitate again today for the second time but it's over my ability to draw..Thanks Again


you can always order a Levitate with custom cams from PSE custom shop ..I ordered my 2020 Mach 1
with SE cams instead of EC cams.. its stiffer draw and little faster for my 27" DL ..the short draw version of the E2 cam or EM cam might be right for me ..have to wait and see the short draw offering in January for E2 cam ..the SE cam is stiff drawing on my Mach1, I have the same SE cam on my 2018 Stealth it draws a lot
easier on that bow ..I can tell you this.. the Mach 1 is a shooter


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## mm1615 (Nov 16, 2010)

HbDane said:


> I think ordered one the other day. I was on the edge because of the price but didn't really care. And then the wife walks in with a brand new pair of shoes. I looked at her and smiled.....the rest is history. Now the waiting game, for a Lefty..... 🤣


Awesome! Post a review when you can.


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Errorhead said:


> Interesting, I’m surprised that the E2 cam is that much more aggressive than an EC evolve cam? Same poundage?


Yep..For me it's just a little bit too much with the start of the draw and through the draw at 60lbs..When I get across the valley to the wall the bow feels great


Errorhead said:


> Interesting, I’m surprised that the E2 cam is that much more aggressive than an EC evolve cam? Same poundage?





Errorhead said:


> Interesting, I’m surprised that the E2 cam is that much more aggressive than an EC evolve cam? Same poundage?


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..Good Lord folks I don't have clue to what I did^^^^^^ LOL...Anyways foe me the difference at 60 lbs..is more for me with the E2 vrs the Mach 1 Evolve...Yesterday another shooter was next to me he was shooting a Mathews V3...He was set up with the same weight in the Leviate..Took 6 shots and hung the bow on the rack...I thought he would be close on the draw between both bows..What I'm going to try to do is get me shoulder stength back up the maybe I can handle the draw...I can draw the bow but it is uncontrolled..


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I want to throw this out there..If the levitate is introduced with a 34 ATA..Would that make the draw easier than what it is now on the 32 ATA..I would think it would draw a bit smoother what do you think?


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## HbDane (Sep 13, 2013)

I was told that the cams can be tuned down 20lbs instead of 10lbs, any truth to this ( i.e. 70lbs can tune down to 50lbs) ?


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## jmike00 (Jan 6, 2018)

dtrkyman said:


> I never understood the Dudley hate, what else could you want from free content? The dude is a legit archery expert, proven professional shooter and coach.
> 
> I guess people like to chit on success anymore?
> 
> ...


I'm not saying I agree with the hate, but I do think I understand where some of it comes from. First off there are those who are just going to hate because it goes against the grain and that's where they love to live. Most of us are able to use common sense and recognize the limits of his importance, some elevate him to a ridiculously high standard. Remember he's Archery Jesus to a lot of folks

Dudley is a bit of a hypocrite on certain things but it's justifiable. His entire shtick is his priority is the archery community by either paying forward everything he was given or trying to help steer the bus in a direction he feels is best for the community. Of course right off the bat part of the hate is just going to come from people who don't agree on which direction that is. After all, you will never get everyone to agree on what's the best way. But back on the hypocrite thing, one of the traits he tries to pass off as being for the community is he's not a corporate shill and also implies he doesn't let monetary gains affect his direction but both are not entirely accurate. It's just the corporation he's a shill for is himself or his own brand and not the big manufacturers. As far as monetary gains go I mean isn't that the whole point of his endeavor? It isn't some non-profit, charity corporation and not only is he financially responsible for himself and his family but also for those in his employ so it would be irresponsible and down right ignorant to not have financial gains be a priority. 

Now I will add this video didn't do him any favor and it almost seemed slightly out of character for him as he went through several pitchers of his own Kool-Aid. One thing I've always admired about Dudley is the way he will talk about products, even comparing ithem to similar offerings but usually manages to avoid specifically naming or putting the completion in a negative light. Even though he still refrained from specific mentions there were a few times where he was OBVIOUSLY throwing some serious shade is Hoyt's direction. That wasn't wrong nor was it inaccurate but was a bit against his normal persona.

I love Dudley and can't ever thank him enough for the about of help he's provided to myself, my friends and the rest of the world that is archery, but again I do understand why for some he's easy to hate on.


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## ezshot81 (Oct 1, 2017)

Is it not pse and duds job to promote the heck out of their products. Tell us how great they are and how much better than everyone else's. Now it's our job to test them and see if they are full of it.


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## NYyotekiller (Dec 7, 2011)

Must be everyone that’s complaining about the cost of the Levitate hasn’t looked around at all manufactured goods and the price increase as it relates to everything right now. The cost of everything has increased substantially recently and PSE would be crazy to not see what’s going on in the global economy. 

I think that you’ll see that every manufacturer is going to have to incur an increase in their MAP prices.


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## mm1615 (Nov 16, 2010)

NYyotekiller said:


> Must be everyone that’s complaining about the cost of the Levitate hasn’t looked around at all manufactured goods and the price increase as it relates to everything right now. The cost of everything has increased substantially recently and PSE would be crazy to not see what’s going on in the global economy.
> 
> I think that you’ll see that every manufacturer is going to have to incur an increase in their MAP prices.


So you don't mind the price hike? Are you trying to justify why $1899 for a bow is ok? At what point is it too much? This is an archery forum to express how we feel about a particular archery product last I checked and listening to how others feel gives you a good idea of what a person should pay for something whether it's worth it or not. Yes I do see the price of everything skyrocketing. But I have always felt that bows (from most of the big names) are overpriced before the pandemic. Now it's getting ridiculous. I like Mathews bows, but what they are asking for the TRX34 is insane! Nowhere near what they are asking for it. But, manufacturers will keep hiking up the price of their bows until people stop purchasing them. If it's in demand you will pay for it. But we are all entitled to our opinion, I think.


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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

The only thing more surprising to me than the price of a new Levitate is price of used bows. Used V3’s for $900, Hoyt Rx4’s, not 5’s, for over $1000, all with no warranty.


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## Dryfirecharlie (Mar 11, 2018)

Adamsdjr said:


> The only thing more surprising to me than the price of a new Levitate is price of used bows. Used V3’s for $900, Hoyt Rx4’s, not 5’s, for over $1000, all with no warranty.


Amen. Seems the only used bows that are priced the way I’d expect are prime bows. I just sold an axius ultra locally for $650 with a qad on it. Seems like I should’ve held out for more money lol


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## rootju (Sep 22, 2009)

NYyotekiller said:


> Must be everyone that’s complaining about the cost of the Levitate hasn’t looked around at all manufactured goods and the price increase as it relates to everything right now. The cost of everything has increased substantially recently and PSE would be crazy to not see what’s going on in the global economy.
> 
> I think that you’ll see that every manufacturer is going to have to incur an increase in their MAP prices.


This 100%. I think as you see more manufacturers launch more bows, the price increases will be the norm. That is the nature of where product pricing for everything is in all industries right now. Now $1900 is high for a bow but if you're willing to pay that, and can, and want to, go for it. 

I also don't get the hate for Dudley. I just recently started following him and he seems like a great person for the industry. I think most of the hate comes from the older archery crowd who struggle to understand or deal with social media, marketing, and as someone earlier said, "the flat-billed TAC archers". That's the direction archery and hunting are going and I think Dudley has done a great job with archery info and appealing to the part of the market that is growing. Nothing wrong with the old-school archers, as that's who I learned from, but the evolution of archery has been great for the industry and sport.

Also, there were a couple of pages talking about parts for PSE bows. Now maybe needing parts in a rare case happens, but I've shot PSE my whole life. I don't get new bows every year. With that said I still have my 2007 Dream Season HF as a backup bow and have never needed another part on it. I have an extra set of limbs just in case. I also have an Evolve 31 with no issues, and have a Charcoal Levitate ordered. I'll likely be selling my Evolve 31, but haven't needed a thing other than new strings for it in 4+ years. 

IMO, regardless of price, PSE has the best carbon bows on the market, and the evolve cams are as good a cam system on the market from any brand. Can't wait to set up my new Levitate when it comes in. Good luck to everyone hunting this year!


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## Simplestman84 (Oct 22, 2019)

HbDane said:


> I was told that the cams can be tuned down 20lbs instead of 10lbs, any truth to this ( i.e. 70lbs can tune down to 50lbs) ?


I wouldn’t be surprised. I believe the mach one only does 10 turns on the limb bolts and I backed my wife’s 65 pound lefty down to 50 for her and still had a turn or two left. So I would assume that that would be at least very close to possible to get 20 pounds out of 12 turns


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## IVhunter (Jun 5, 2009)

So the typical complaining about price is nothing new. Every year, it happens to every manufacturer. People seem to not understand that this is a Dudley bow and basically a custom bow price over the PSE equivalent. So PSE will release an equivalent bow to replace the Mach 1 and most likely less money than the Levitate. And there is ZERO doubt all the levitates made will sell and will sell fast. Also, people complain about the price (in today’s inflated economy) of a premium carbon bow ( hand made in Tucson) , we’ll then it’s not for you! PSE, like Hoyt have aluminum versions that are far less money. And better yet they have mid tier bows for well under $1k that will kill critters just as well as the High Carbon offering. But continue on…maybe we’ll get to 30 pages!


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

bigbucks170 said:


> you can always order a Levitate with custom cams from PSE custom shop ..I ordered my 2020 Mach 1
> with SE cams instead of EC cams.. its stiffer draw and little faster for my 27" DL ..the short draw version of the E2 cam or EM cam might be right for me ..have to wait and see the short draw offering in January for E2 cam ..the SE cam is stiff drawing on my Mach1, I have the same SE cam on my 2018 Stealth it draws a lot
> easier on that bow ..I can tell you this.. the Mach 1 is a shooter


There is a short draw E2 cam coming I thnk it’ll go like 25-29.5 or something like that but I was told to expect it late this year. 




Chamacat said:


> Yep..I want to throw this out there..If the levitate is introduced with a 34 ATA..Would that make the draw easier than what it is now on the 32 ATA..I would think it would draw a bit smoother what do you think?


It should in theory the load is spread out more 



NYyotekiller said:


> Must be everyone that’s complaining about the cost of the Levitate hasn’t looked around at all manufactured goods and the price increase as it relates to everything right now. The cost of everything has increased substantially recently and PSE would be crazy to not see what’s going on in the global economy.
> 
> I think that you’ll see that every manufacturer is going to have to incur an increase in their MAP prices.


I am waiting to find out price increase on Hoyt as I was told their new carbon might be $1900. There release dates is on Dec 8th I was told. The only “cheapest” price increase I’ve seen so far is mathews and it’s only $100 and that’s just for the long one. Prime is going up $100 msrp on all their new bows. Every one has a price increase some are telling 20-30 percent increase I’m tryin to get locked in so I won’t get price increase 


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## luke308 (Nov 12, 2020)

dtrkyman said:


> I never understood the Dudley hate, what else could you want from free content? The dude is a legit archery expert, proven professional shooter and coach.
> 
> I guess people like to chit on success anymore?
> 
> ...


agreed


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## bobbyks69 (May 8, 2011)

lifeisgoodsteve said:


> Just back from test shooting the new Levitate (30"DL, 70lbs) alongside the RX5, RX5 Ultra and V3 31".
> 
> Disclaimer that I'm no expert, so just sharing my personal experience and preferences. Also, didn't have the bows fully set up so was just a short 5-7 yard shot in the shop to get a feel for them.
> 
> ...


Very nice report. I am wondering however after reading many others comment, did you think the cam was aggressive? By aggressive I mean even the slightest hint of creep and the bow wants to take off. Thanks!


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## bobbyks69 (May 8, 2011)

SwVaHntr said:


> Material and shipping costs have skyrocketed, some price increases are beyond the manufacturers control.
> 2021 Mach 1 was cheaper than the 2021 RX5, to just say oh the rx5 is cheaper no **** when you compare last year's model to a new bow.
> This is what PSE would call a custom bow, and not part of the standard PSE line, PSE will release their version at a later date, and I bet when hoyt gets theirs from China it will be higher than either of the pse bows
> Don't care about resale, if I don't keep a bow for years I give them to friends or relatives, right now I have 6
> ...


Since you have 6 bows now and eventually give away to friends, would you consider adopting me and giving me the Carbon Stealth?


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## lifeisgoodsteve (Oct 18, 2021)

bobbyks69 said:


> Very nice report. I am wondering however after reading many others comment, did you think the cam was aggressive? By aggressive I mean even the slightest hint of creep and the bow wants to take off. Thanks!


Funny that I found the opposite in comparison to the Mathews V3 31. A couple times with the Mathews when I was I guess too relaxed at full draw it started to take off on me. Imagine my form is far from ideal but this never happened with the Levitate.

There was a distinct difference in the end of the draw cycles though, with the levitate having a distinct dropoff at the end. That said, it really wasn't a big deal for me because as long as it's not hard to draw back, that part of the performance doesn't effect me so much.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

bobbyks69 said:


> Since you have 6 bows now and eventually give away to friends, would you consider adopting me and giving me the Carbon Stealth?


Don't have a carbon bow, never had a need for one.


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## VENPIKE (May 8, 2019)

1faith said:


> So what make's you think Hoyt would have that much of a price increase and secondly, what do you think resell on the Hoyt will be vs the PSE ?


Thank you for reviewing the Bows for us... is hard to go to a bow shop and kick tires during season.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

1faith said:


> So what make's you think Hoyt would have that much of a price increase and secondly, what do you think resell on the Hoyt will be vs the PSE ?


Idk it’s hard to say. I won’t get into the logic or thinking. Lawyers are better at word play then I am. When you ask pse where they build the bows they say Tucson then get hushed hushed about it. Until I mention EPA and osha down there. Import/export tax and everything is going up. Mathew’s has the highest re sale value second would be Hoyt I’ve done an excel chart of this. Most don’t care or pay attention to this. Most care about the name 


Any one here’s some pics 




















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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

GrainofPain said:


> If I can get my hunting rig under 5lbs, it's worth the money to me. The Carbon is sourced domestically.
> 
> Curious to see how fast it slings arrows. Planning to run it at 77#, 30" DL, 530gr arrow


It’s really hard to say with marketing what’s up with this bow, but if it has advantages over the already awesome Mach 1, it will be a win for PSE

I’m not tempted to upgrade my Mach 1, but I’m also not wanting to shoot it, because ignorance is bliss  

everything is incremental improvement at this point, but if they didn’t compromise the draw cycle, this bow will be all types of awesome


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

vmals said:


> Hard to believe it’s smoother than an nxt 33 with that kind of speed.
> 
> Wait for people to shoot them to get the truth.
> 
> ...


If it is, I have a well deserved dirty look coming from my wife in the future…


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

roosiebull said:


> It’s really hard to say with marketing what’s up with this bow, but if it has advantages over the already awesome Mach 1, it will be a win for PSE
> 
> I’m not tempted to upgrade my Mach 1, but I’m also not wanting to shoot it, because ignorance is bliss
> 
> everything is incremental improvement at this point, but if they didn’t compromise the draw cycle, this bow will be all types of awesome


Draw cycle isn’t quite evolve smooth. That said, the bow is better than the Mach 1 in every other category.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

roosiebull said:


> It’s really hard to say with marketing what’s up with this bow, but if it has advantages over the already awesome Mach 1, it will be a win for PSE
> 
> I’m not tempted to upgrade my Mach 1, but I’m also not wanting to shoot it, because ignorance is bliss
> 
> everything is incremental improvement at this point, but if they didn’t compromise the draw cycle, this bow will be all types of awesome


I bought a stealth and couldn’t give up the aluminum bows. 
I played the ignorant is bliss game with the Mach 1 for a year till I tried it and wow was I ignorant! Haha
It’s a long off season and I’m expecting a non Dudley version levitate and like always the price everybody is getting bent out of shape about now will come down… Not like the Dudley version is that crazy cause I’ve been told $1600 with some wait is pretty doable right now. 


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## Eagle26 (Aug 23, 2019)

So what I’m gathering from browsing this thread is that the bow is pretty awesome except for draw cycle (and of course price). If it is marketed as a hunting bow, wouldn’t the more aggressive cam be preferred? I mean, you can’t have it all, right? In a hunting bow, the extra speed is alway nice, and you only need to draw the bow once (hopefully) to shoot your deer. For those who have tried the bow, do you think it is that bad that you would have too much movement to draw the bow in a cold hunting situation? As long as that’s not an issue, it sounds like a good trade off to me.


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## Super 91 (Feb 28, 2006)

Non Dudley Kuiu is what I'd hold out for personally. Not crazy about the colors, but I also will want to draw one first.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Nice pics - thanks for sharing. I actually think it's a sharp looking bow and blows the Hoyt out of the water. The cost is ridiculous and I'll be interested in how well it moves but there will clearly be people willing to pay.

I look forward to eventually shooting it. Descriptions of draw cycle etc. are a bit all over the board. For me though, I'll also want to see what the shorter DL cam feels like (and how it performs) as I also fit into it and would be higher in the range rather than at the bottom.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Eagle26 said:


> So what I’m gathering from browsing this thread is that the bow is pretty awesome except for draw cycle (and of course price). If it is marketed as a hunting bow, wouldn’t the more aggressive cam be preferred? I mean, you can’t have it all, right? In a hunting bow, the extra speed is alway nice, and you only need to draw the bow once (hopefully) to shoot your deer. For those who have tried the bow, do you think it is that bad that you would have too much movement to draw the bow in a cold hunting situation? As long as that’s not an issue, it sounds like a good trade off to me.


As you touch on, you may have to draw the bow on a cold day after sitting in stand for a couple of hours. You may also have to draw the bow very slowly with minimal movement. You may also have to let down (maybe more than once). All of these have relevance in a hunting bow draw cycle.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Anyone notice in recent pictures of JD using this bow, he was using an UltraView sight housing on his Spot Hogg? I wonder if there's a Nock On version coming at some point.


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## "Own More Bone" (Oct 18, 2002)

Someone told me Dudley invented archery........🤘🤘🤪🤪..... So now the Sheeple follow his every move...🐑🐑

Any insight as to when his pajama line is coming out?


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

"Own More Bone" said:


> Someone told me Dudley invented archery............. So now the Sheeple follow his every move...
> 
> Any insight as to when his pajama line is coming out?


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep...Personally I don't give a rats arse of who made what or designed what or marketed what in the world of archery..I'm personally into how the product benefits me and my style and form..I don't get off into the deep end...Carry On...


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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

Predator said:


> As you touch on, you may have to draw the bow on a cold day after sitting in stand for a couple of hours. You may also have to draw the bow very slowly with minimal movement. You may also have to let down (maybe more than once). All of these have relevance in a hunting bow draw cycle.


You also need to be willing to test the bow based on the speed it produces with a given arrow. Just comparing two bows that have a 70# sticker on the limb tells you very little, unless saying you pull a certain draw weight is important. Draw cycles need to be compared with both bows launching the same arrow at the same speed. Typically if you take two 70# bows the one that has the “best” draw cycle will be the slowest. The bow with the ”poor” draw cycle may actually have the “best” draw cycle at a 5# lower draw weight and still launch a given arrow at the same speed.


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

Absolutely. There is a lot to be said for getting a feel for the amount of 'work done' drawing and shooting the bow rather than looking purely at peak weight. The former will reflect the draw force curve much more closely and, funnily enough, work done is a scientific term that reflects just that: the amount of energy put into a system. As an example (using target bows) I found that shooting a Supra Focus XL with the EM cam at 56lb was comparable to shooting my TRX 40 at 62lb in terms of overall effort. Personally, I preferred to pull more weight with the TRX 40 in the end, because I preferred how the draw cycle towards the end and in the valley. Decisions like this can go either way!



Adamsdjr said:


> You also need to be willing to test the bow based on the speed it produces with a given arrow. Just comparing two bows that have a 70# sticker on the limb tells you very little, unless saying you pull a certain draw weight is important. Draw cycles need to be compared with both bows launching the same arrow at the same speed. Typically if you take two 70# bows the one that has the “best” draw cycle will be the slowest. The bow with the ”poor” draw cycle may actually have the “best” draw cycle at a 5# lower draw weight and still launch a given arrow at the same speed.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Predator said:


> Nice pics - thanks for sharing. I actually think it's a sharp looking bow and blows the Hoyt out of the water. The cost is ridiculous and I'll be interested in how well it moves but there will clearly be people willing to pay.
> 
> I look forward to eventually shooting it. Descriptions of draw cycle etc. are a bit all over the board. For me though, I'll also want to see what the shorter DL cam feels like (and how it performs) as I also fit into it and would be higher in the range rather than at the bottom.


Now you have to at least shoot one since they put a back bar bushing on it 

I’m looking forward to reading the real world reviews… I highly doubt I will be tempted, but it would be a bit delusional to say it’s not possible…

to me, the speed is the only improvement that stands out, but I assume when I shoot it, my opinion will change.

the beauty of the Mach 1 is how well it holds with no stabilizers… obviously it would hold better with a front/back bar, but it’s way accurate enough without well beyond the ranges I would shoot at an animal… if the levitate holds better than the Mach 1 (sounds like it does so far) I could get the itch to own it… I just told my wife I only have one big hunting purchase this coming year in the NL pures, but she called me out when I said that (she knows me)

i’m interested for sure… come to think of it, I do need a backup compound regardless, haha


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## Eagle26 (Aug 23, 2019)

Predator said:


> As you touch on, you may have to draw the bow on a cold day after sitting in stand for a couple of hours. You may also have to draw the bow very slowly with minimal movement. You may also have to let down (maybe more than once). All of these have relevance in a hunting bow draw cycle.


Yes, totally agree! I wasn’t trying to say draw cycle isn’t relevant at all… just that it is likely a worthwhile trade off for most hunters if it isn’t too bad. My guess is most reviewers are being super picky about a small hump in the draw cycle because todays bows are all so good we have to point out these little flaws. I would think as long as you aren’t trying to pull too much poundage, it will probably not be an issue in a hunting situation, but that’s just a guess. I was hoping to get some clarification on that


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## deleted_myself (Oct 24, 2021)

skyshark1985 said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


And it only costs $200-300 more than the RX5, which IMO its riser is awesome looking.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Draw cycle isn’t quite evolve smooth. That said, the bow is better than the Mach 1 in every other category.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I disagree. So far only 1 review has shown it exceed or hit ibo everyone else is 6-14 fps under which is horrible. The “efficiency” claim that Dudley is saying I’m so far ain’t seeing it. I called and PSE is back up and running the phone system any way. But they rated it for the high let off mod. So in theory they will shot 358 fps which then makes it almost faster then the Xpedite eh idk some logical thoughts and reasoning I’m confused 

So far the Mach 1 exceeds ibo by 5-10 fps



jo3st3 said:


> Anyone notice in recent pictures of JD using this bow that he was using an UltraView sight housing on his Spot Hogg? I wonder if there's a Nock On version coming at some point.


I did see this. Hopefully there isn’t a nock on I’ll drop from being a dealer. 


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## JFerg3 (Aug 24, 2013)

I have a backup bow, but would probably buy a brand new one if something catastrophic happened to my VXR. However, I would never pay $2000 for a new bow.


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

JFerg3 said:


> I have a backup bow, but would probably buy a brand new one if something catastrophic happened to my VXR. However, I would never pay $2000 for a new bow.


Here is what happened to me this year. My bow **** the bed 2 days before season. No way to dial a new bow as I was leaving in 12 hrs. Need to have backup bow dialed. IMHO


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Not necessarily in this case however this a good illustration, mach 1 vs this new bow( both great no doubt) 

You hear all these reviews that make it sound like there is a night and day measurable, absolutely quantitative, substantial difference that you can see, feel Ect Ect …every year it’s the same song and dance and smoke and mirrors. Been hearing it for 20 plus years every single year… youd think buy now bows would be so advanced they wouldn’t be recognizable. You put years models unmarked and sight un scene in front of bow Joe hunter and I bet he couldn’t even order them chronologically never mind by performance. 
You google Dunning–Kruger and you get a link to this forum


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## deleted_myself (Oct 24, 2021)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Gonna see a lot of complaints about price from the same people that constantly complain about stuff being made overseas. I find it hilarious. Still struggling to see what people expect…


I'm with you on this one. You can't complain about stuff being made overseas, but then be unwilling to pay more for a USA made product because our laborers think they deserve to be paid as much as a college graduate. That's why jobs went overseas to begin with. I'd gladly pay the $2000, if it was better than my RX5, but quite frankly in terms of looks, the RX5 beats it hands down.


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## ProXXX (Oct 12, 2010)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Draw cycle isn’t quite evolve smooth. That said, the bow is better than the Mach 1 in every other category.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's the same riser as the mach 1, how can It be better in every other category?? Just insane what people will believe! And the draw with the evolve cam on the mach 1 is what led me to buy it in the first place besides being a true one piece carbon riser that weighs what a carbon riser bow should. No way am I paying for carbon that weighs what an aluminum bow weighs. The shoot ability differences between carbon and aluminum are very slight. So on levitate they put a wider limb pocket and a rear stab bushing and fixed cable guard rod plus a worse drawing cam? All those changes were done to the same mach 1 riser from last year. None of which make me want to "upgrade" to it?


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

grimes.ron said:


> I'm with you on this one. You can't complain about stuff being made overseas, but then be unwilling to pay more for a USA made product because our laborers think they deserve to be paid as much as a college graduate. That's why jobs went overseas to begin with. I'd gladly pay the $2000, if it was better than my RX5, but quite frankly in terms of looks, the RX5 beats it hands down.


I will pay the made in USA price. However, that **** better preform.


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## ProXXX (Oct 12, 2010)

grimes.ron said:


> I'm with you on this one. You can't complain about stuff being made overseas, but then be unwilling to pay more for a USA made product because our laborers think they deserve to be paid as much as a college graduate. That's why jobs went overseas to begin with. I'd gladly pay the $2000, if it was better than my RX5, but quite frankly in terms of looks, the RX5 beats it hands down.


I used to like the hoyt risers and especially the carbon versions, looked super techy to me. The mach 1 initially looked boring. But after having it I really like the simple riser design(if you call a hand laid carbon riser simple) of the mach 1. I look at the hoyt carbons now and think why so many tubes? Why the heavy aluminum end caps? The mach 1 accomplishes all the hoyt carbon does and is lighter and faster with an elegantly "simple" riser design.


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

I might need to try the Mach 1. Sounds like a great bow with a good price tag.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Adamsdjr said:


> You also need to be willing to test the bow based on the speed it produces with a given arrow. Just comparing two bows that have a 70# sticker on the limb tells you very little, unless saying you pull a certain draw weight is important. Draw cycles need to be compared with both bows launching the same arrow at the same speed. Typically if you take two 70# bows the one that has the “best” draw cycle will be the slowest. The bow with the ”poor” draw cycle may actually have the “best” draw cycle at a 5# lower draw weight and still launch a given arrow at the same speed.


Fully aware of the dynamics here. Also true that they don’t offer a 65# version and as someone who shoots 70# typically maxed or close to for optimized performance the head to head draw cycle and performance against other bows at 70# will matter.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

So just set up a Mach 1 today in fusion. Everything measured including draw length 

74.5# 521 grain arrow 28.6” shooting 283 fps. That’s 10 over the ibo calculator because this bow came in rated at 335 fps. So far every Mach 1 has hit or exceeded ibo. Still not impressed with the levitate as it doesn’t seem to be hitting it or exceeding like Dudley “claims” 


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## deleted_myself (Oct 24, 2021)

ProXXX said:


> I look at the hoyt carbons now and think why so many tubes? Why the heavy aluminum end caps? The mach 1 accomplishes all the hoyt carbon does and is lighter and faster with an elegantly "simple" riser design.


It looks cool and distracts from the fact that, as a beginner, I still can't hit the broad side of a barn.


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

grimes.ron said:


> It looks cool and distracts from the fact that, as a beginner, I still can't hit the broad side of a barn.


I dont care about looking cool. it has to kill.


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## AZSpaniol (May 6, 2012)

Seems like a half-assed way of adding a rear stabilizer mount. 


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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

Predator said:


> Fully aware of the dynamics here. Also true that they don’t offer a 65# version and as someone who shoots 70# typically maxed or close to for optimized performance the head to head draw cycle and performance against other bows at 70# will matter.


Mach 1 comes in 65# and the PSE non Dudley version of the Levitate likely will as well


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

ProXXX said:


> It's the same riser as the mach 1, how can It be better in every other category?? Just insane what people will believe! And the draw with the evolve cam on the mach 1 is what led me to buy it in the first place besides being a true one piece carbon riser that weighs what a carbon riser bow should. No way am I paying for carbon that weighs what an aluminum bow weighs. The shoot ability differences between carbon and aluminum are very slight. So on levitate they put a wider limb pocket and a rear stab bushing and fixed cable guard rod plus a worse drawing cam? All those changes were done to the same mach 1 riser from last year. None of which make me want to "upgrade" to it?


the shape of the riser is the same but it's built differently to take shock out of the bow. that's what they mentioned in the videos.

it weighs 3.6 lbs and the Mach 1 weighs 3.5 lbs I believe... it does not weigh what an aluminum bow weighs (which is at least a pound more), unlike the Hoyts that try to deaden the vibration by using so much material it's pretty close to a pound more).

the cam is only worse if you don't want faster speeds and prefer less hump.

If I owned a mach 1 I doubt I'd consider buying it unless I was able to sell it for a mint to offset the costs.


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## North Park (Jan 14, 2014)

AZSpaniol said:


> Seems like a half-assed way of adding a rear stabilizer mount.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my thought as well. Kind of pointless to add a rear stabilizer mount directly behind the front one, instead of putting it lower on the riser where most people would prefer it. The rear mount off of the string stop doesn’t allow you to do anything that you couldn’t do using a combo mount in the front bushing.


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

North Park said:


> That was my thought as well. Kind of pointless to add a rear stabilizer mount directly behind the front one, instead of putting it lower on the riser where most people would prefer it. The rear mount off of the string stop doesn’t allow you to do anything that you couldn’t do using a combo mount in the front bushing.


I`m an old dude that is trying to fit in with the new bow crowd. I have 4 yrs experience running the back country. No way in hell I will ever run a back bar. Just sayin.


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## ProXXX (Oct 12, 2010)

They ran the bushing for the rear mount the way they did, because like I said it's same riser as mach 1, they just changed that bushing, I'm sure you could get that same bushing and put it on a mach 1. And they claim they filled or did something to the riser to make it more dead??? I have a mach , it's pretty dead, pretty sure this is marketing talk. But and this is a big but, I may list my mach 1 for sale if when I shoot the levitate I just have to have it, but so far I don't see that. happening.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

North Park said:


> That was my thought as well. Kind of pointless to add a rear stabilizer mount directly behind the front one, instead of putting it lower on the riser where most people would prefer it. The rear mount off of the string stop doesn’t allow you to do anything that you couldn’t do using a combo mount in the front bushing.


I largely agree with you and certainly prefer a lower mount. I also wonder how the feel - hold and on the shot - compares running it off that type of mount vs directly into riser. Where I disagree is there is a bit of an advantage vs running off the front in that you don’t need as long of a bar to get the weight where you want it.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

Adamsdjr said:


> Mach 1 comes in 65# and the PSE non Dudley version of the Levitate likely will as well


Got it. Just found it noteworthy that they didn’t offer on Dud version. We’ll see how much diff there is in Dud vs non-Dud version.


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## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

The more I hear about this bow if it doesn’t come back as Mach 1 retred with a nocked up up charge I am going to be surprised. 
The bull s hit marketing from bow company’s is really old.


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

ProXXX said:


> They ran the bushing for the rear mount the way they did, because like I said it's same riser as mach 1, they just changed that bushing, I'm sure you could get that same bushing and put it on a mach 1. And they claim they filled or did something to the riser to make it more dead???


They have a list of the biggest changes on their website. I'll be the first to admit, I don't know what the donkey kong "All-New Dead Frequency Carbon" is... but they did something.









PSE x NOCK ON LEVITATE - PSE Archery


*SOLID COLOR RISER WITH GORE SUBALPINE LIMBS A Special Message from John Dudley: "Our goal for 2022 was clear but not simple: To raise the bar higher than ever and change the archery game altogether. We set out to define and design the highest end bow ever made right




psearchery.com


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## cruizerjoy (Dec 20, 2016)

roosiebull said:


> It’s really hard to say with marketing what’s up with this bow, but if it has advantages over the already awesome Mach 1, it will be a win for PSE
> 
> I’m not tempted to upgrade my Mach 1, but I’m also not wanting to shoot it, because ignorance is bliss
> 
> everything is incremental improvement at this point, but if they didn’t compromise the draw cycle, this bow will be all types of awesome


 The "ignorance is bliss" part is the very reason I havnt shot a Mach1. Now we have a newer gooder better version of it. Supposedly. Oh the pressure!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Zkallgren (Oct 13, 2021)

Is the bow any better then all the other brands


Sent from my U705AC using Tapatalk


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## jo3st3 (Apr 11, 2021)

Zkallgren said:


> Is the bow any better then all the other brands


Better is very subjective, and it depends on how you'd compare. 

So far it appears to be one of the best carbon bows if weight without sacrificing vibration is a premium in your criteria. And the speed looks pretty legit as well. If US made is a criteria, that makes it even better than others. 

Is it going to make an arrow hit the spot you're looking at any better... nope.


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## roosiebull (Oct 3, 2010)

Zkallgren said:


> Is the bow any better then all the other brands
> 
> 
> Sent from my U705AC using Tapatalk


Better is a broad term, broad terms don’t fit very many folks, so it will be the best bow on the market to some, I assume I will fit into that some, but it’s still a niche bow… for many people, the excessive cost will be totally unnecessary, for some, it will be money well spent.

I do think it is the best bow on the market for the niche it fills, while the polar opposite will be the best bow for some… there is no better, all bows built today are excellent, it comes down to what it offers to you, and how it fits you and the hunting you do


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

For anyone who spends that kind of coin on this bow it will become the best bow on the planet. Otherwise you’ll feel like an idiot for paying that much more for a bow that isn’t superior (or worse yet is inferior) to other much less expensive bows on the market. It’s amazing how we can rationalize our own purchases after we make them.


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## Simplestman84 (Oct 22, 2019)

Elkdreamer21 said:


> Here is what happened to me this year. My bow **** the bed 2 days before season. No way to dial a new bow as I was leaving in 12 hrs. Need to have backup bow dialed. IMHO


This is why I have 2 mach 1’s 😜

one is definitely my favorite over the other, but they both shoot great. I set up the two with slightly different arrow set ups, one is my primary rig for Elk, the other is my back up and I set up with a little lighter arrow so it’s faster for deer But still fully capable of taking an elk.


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## tmead (May 10, 2010)

A guy just posted on Instagram that the price was out of reach for the average Joe. Dudley responded“Yes it is”. The point was to make the best possible regardless of cost. The Embark is for the average Joe.


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

jo3st3 said:


> the shape of the riser is the same but it's built differently to take shock out of the bow. that's what they mentioned in the videos.
> 
> it weighs 3.6 lbs and the Mach 1 weighs 3.5 lbs I believe... it does not weigh what an aluminum bow weighs (which is at least a pound more), unlike the Hoyts that try to deaden the vibration by using so much material it's pretty close to a pound more).
> 
> ...



the issue is mach 1 is better the E2 cam the ecs is a proven system in terms of effeciency. i have yet to shoot one or see more then 5 of the levitates exceeds ata. Dudley is 6 fps under...I am 10 fps over on my mach 1. therefore the cam is worse I am not gaining anything.


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## agwrestler (Dec 31, 2010)

RavinHood said:


> the issue is mach 1 is better the E2 cam the ecs is a proven system in terms of effeciency. i have yet to shoot one or see more then 5 of the levitates exceeds ata. Dudley is 6 fps under...I am 10 fps over on my mach 1. therefore the cam is worse I am not gaining anything.


Do you realize the Mach 1 and Levitate do not have the same IBO rating? "Efficiency" is not a measure of a bow's performance vs their rating. 

I would be very interested in an apples to apples comparison between the two (same DL/DW/LO/arrow) in a BS tuned setup. This would tell how much is gained with the E2s draw cycle.

The Levitate fixes two of the three reasons I sold my Mach 1 (cable guard and rear stab mount), but it "fixed" other things that were not a problem (limb pockets and cam).


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

agwrestler said:


> Do you realize the Mach 1 and Levitate do not have the same IBO rating? "Efficiency" is not a measure of a bow's performance vs their rating.
> 
> I would be very interested in an apples to apples comparison between the two (same DL/DW/LO/arrow) in a BS tuned setup. This would tell how much is gained with the E2s draw cycle.
> 
> The Levitate fixes two of the three reasons I sold my Mach 1 (cable guard and rear stab mount), but it "fixed" other things that were not a problem (limb pockets and cam).


What are you arguing ? What are you affirming? The claim the assumption the affirmation is that the levitate with the E2 cam suppose to be more efficient then the ECS cam. 

Mach 1 is rated for 335 ibo while the levitate is rated for 348 ata/ibo according to PSEs website And they are pushing that it is more effecient and better. Don’t believe me 










Here’s what I’m stating a 335 ibo bow shot a 521 grain arrow at 283 fps at a measured 28.6”. Why does this matter well they are preaching efficiency on the new cam typically as you go shorter in draw you are at the top of the cam so you lose efficiency and speed this is why Hoyt did a different cam sizes to maintain speed an efficiency. Or the reason why mathews/Hoyt do a smaller cam for women because it maintain efficiency for their short draw. Let’s go back to the numbers according to the calculator if we take that same 521 grain arrow and 335 fps it’s suppose to be shooting 273 fps but that isn’t the case it shot over that. 









It tells me things one it maintains speed, the ecs cam likes a heavy arrow, and it’s efficient. 

30” 78# and a 406 grain arrow shoot 326 fps is horrible. This was in one YouTube review. 










I shot one this week after I had it shooting broadheads and it came 9 fps under. Measured 30” 70.2# 351 grain arrow shot 339 fps. Idk why people are mentioning that they are shooting it with the high let off mod. There isn’t a Fast mod for this bow yet I was told late January if they decide to do it. 

That’s severely under for a cam that is suppose to exceed ibo. I’m waiting for more reviews to come but even Dudley who is 30.5” on his the bow actually came 6 fps under. He’s at the very top of the cam. There’s no reason why it should be under for something that is claiming a better version. 


The wider limb stance make a difference ? Not in my shooting. Group sizes weren’t better between it and a Mach 1 the rear stabilizer mount is nice but now with a serial number I can just call and order it and mount to Mach 1 unless for some reason they decided to pin it down. 

Sean outdoors is the only review I’ve seen where it comes in and over it’s ata/ibo rating. 


Typically in a rotating mod we don’t see the efficiency aspect. It actually drops bad when you start coming down in draw. Look at bowtech. 1 they rate their bows in the performance setting that’s a whole matter in itself. Any way the SR6 would never hit it numbers it’s suppose to. At 28.5” in performance with a 350 grain arrow I was suppske to 337 fps I saw any where from 322-325 fps that makes that bow a 340 ibo bow. Now at 30” it would do the 352 fps but as the draw length got shorter and it got worse. Bowtech isn’t the only though. 

My two cents playing with every bow from every brand within the last decade. There are efficient cams in my opinion. Here are some that I know are very efficient. 

Evolve cam system

Roto cam from prime or like the draw specific cam 

SW cam or Crossweight cam mathews. 

Elites 2 track can also be mention. The Z5 cams from Hoyt can also be mention. 



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## agwrestler (Dec 31, 2010)

I am not saying you're wrong about the E2, but it's hard to come to any conclusion using varying values from multiple sources. This is why I mentioned an apples-apples comparison of the two. 

The Mach 1 was the 2nd fastest bow in the shop behind the Xpedite with a great draw cycle. I like your idea of retrofitting a Mach 1, a lot.


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## lifeisgoodsteve (Oct 18, 2021)

Zkallgren said:


> Is the bow any better then all the other brands


While "better" is subjective, the Levitate has one standout quality compared to, for example, the newest Hoyts/Mathews, which is almost a pound less weight.

Many people who put in big miles in the mountains, whether backpacking or hunting, literally calculate the $/oz. they are saving in weight. For them if the bow is say $500 more than the next bow, but saves 16 ounces, then they're paying $31/oz, which seems to be a good $/oz ratio for them.

If all else is in the same ballpark, as there will always be nuances, purely for the sake of hunting backcountry, if folks can afford it they will feel genuine value from this bow.

Personally, I loved how it shot in my brief and short distance testing, but decided to get a used RX4-turbo, as it's about 1/2lb heavier but can use lighter accessories such as the quiver and rest. Saving about $900 was also worth it for me to take the risk on the used RX4. To each his own.

Cheers


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

Ot. But PSE posted a picture of Dudley and an engineer, behind them on the wall was a drawing of 3 risers all identical and all 3 different lengths, these were aluminum riser


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## leftee (Nov 15, 2005)

Shallow Hal thread at it's best.


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## SwVaHntr (Jan 5, 2019)

SwVaHntr said:


> Ot. But PSE posted a picture of Dudley and an engineer, behind them on the wall was a drawing of 3 risers all identical and all 3 different lengths, these were aluminum riser


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## deadquiet (Jan 25, 2005)

I hope it does well but from the pics it looks like a cheap K-mart bow. I don't get the craze for these flat colored bows to start with though.


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## smokinbobf4 (Jan 8, 2011)

deadquiet said:


> I hope it does well but from the pics it looks like a cheap K-mart bow. I don't get the craze for these flat colored bows to start with though.



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## johnno (Apr 11, 2006)

I too would like to see an apples to apples between the Mach 1 and Levitate - with both bows set at IBO specs - then both set at 29"- 28" - 27" etc. Notwithstanding the few extra fps IBO claim with the Levitate - I suspect the numbers between both will still be very close - with the M1 still slightly lighter


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

Those bows look like deflex target risers. They aren’t hunting bows. Might well be Citation 34, 36 and 40. Loom at the limb angle.



deadquiet said:


> I hope it does well but from the pics it looks like a cheap K-mart bow. I don't get the craze for these flat colored bows to start with though.


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## Benjamin59 (Jan 19, 2014)

Anyone draw the bow? Does it have a hump?? I know my Mach 1 I had got heavy on the draw cycle towards the end how is this if anyone had compare the mach1 to this head tk head


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

Yep..I went down and shot the "Levitate" for the 3RD time today..I had a 434 grain "Black Eagle" Spartan...My "Traverse" was set at 60 Lbs at 29.5 inches and the same with the leviate...The levitate 
with that arrow set up was 279 on the crono..the Traverse shot 269...10fps difference and what shot multiple times for accuracy on that chrono...I'm not a speed guy at all..I surely thought that the leviate would have been abit faster...FWIW


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..I went down and shot the "Levitate" for the 3RD time today..I had a 434 grain "Black Eagle" Spartan...My "Traverse" was set at 60 Lbs at 29.5 inches and the same with the leviate...The levitate
> with that arrow set up was 279 on the crono..the Traverse shot 269...10fps difference and what shot multiple times for accuracy on that chrono...I'm not a speed guy at all..I surely thought that the leviate would have been abit faster...FWIW


It’s not bad. Does your traverse have 29.5” mods or measured ?


The levitate is actually under 

View attachment 7493656



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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

RavinHood said:


> It’s not bad. Does your traverse have 29.5” mods or measured ?
> 
> 
> The levitate is actually under
> ...


Yep..The mods are 29.5 and we measured the draw at 29.5


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## Chamacat (Apr 11, 2019)

I can't open the attachment^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## ET Bowhunter 3593 (Nov 2, 2021)

I’m sure it’s a great shooting bow, but like some others, I think it’s ugly and I can’t stomach $1700 for a bow. Maybe I’m just cheap though 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

Chamacat said:


> Yep..The mods are 29.5 and we measured the draw at 29.5


You got the first and only Mathews that has ever drawn to match a mod, they all run long.
In reality the Mach is probably a solid 15fps faster than the Traverse.


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## Kheprisun (Oct 26, 2021)

That's one hell of a nice looking bow.


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## zamani (Oct 9, 2021)

That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

zamani said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


Have you seen one or just a picture?


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## North Park (Jan 14, 2014)

zamani said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


You must have never seen the Bear LS6 from a few years ago. The Levitate is a thing of beauty compared to this atrocity. I actually very much like the looks of PSE’s carbon risers.


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## rmscustom (Mar 7, 2011)

zamani said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


Function over form is beautiful to me. 
A REAL 3.5lbs on a stiff platform is a thing of beauty to some. Some think it looks like a Walmart bow and that’s fine too. 


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## Deadeye1205 (Dec 13, 2007)

RavinHood said:


> I disagree. So far only 1 review has shown it exceed or hit ibo everyone else is 6-14 fps under which is horrible. The “efficiency” claim that Dudley is saying I’m so far ain’t seeing it. I called and PSE is back up and running the phone system any way. But they rated it for the high let off mod. So in theory they will shot 358 fps which then makes it almost faster then the Xpedite eh idk some logical thoughts and reasoning I’m confused
> 
> So far the Mach 1 exceeds ibo by 5-10 fps
> 
> ...


Have you shot the bow?


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

I love how people compare different people shooting different bows through different chronos and take the numbers as absolute fact when it comes to the 'speed' of the bow. Come on, people..... Two different chronos can easily be 5-10fps apart. This is before we take into account variations between draw scales, assumptions about _actual_ draw length etc etc. It all adds up bigly.


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## Kidwalker (Aug 14, 2021)

Buckhorn70 said:


> I see they do not have 65 pound limbs. I wonder if the bows are going to run “hot”. Are the 60 pounders going to clock in at 63 and 70’s in at 73?
> 
> I like to be between 64-67 pounds.
> 
> Also….. speed comes from somewhere. Wonder how smooth those Cams will be?


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## RavinHood (Sep 17, 2015)

Deadeye1205 said:


> Have you shot the bow?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. Didn’t get to set up and play with though 


Kellen did a review apples to apples 

Mach 1 70# 30” 290 fps and with the same arrow Levitate 78# 30” only shot 8 fps but it’s more efficient ? 


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

BucksnBass525 said:


> You got the first and only Mathews that has ever drawn to match a mod, they all run long.


I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Haters gonna hate, hate, hate.......


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

zamani said:


> That is by far the ugliest riser I have ever seen on a production bow.


So, does all the camo you wear match the camo on your bow?


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## chugg (Jul 4, 2015)

He’s probably the type to start a thread of “what color strings go with…..”


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## BucksnBass525 (Feb 21, 2009)

SHPoet said:


> I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Haters gonna hate, hate, hate.......


Im not a hater, owned just about every Mathews flagship hunting bow the last 10 years or longer.
I like their bows alot and they are getting better, but they are notoriously long on measured draw.
I shoot 28.5" on Bowtech, Prime, Elite, PSE, Hoyt, etc., but I shoot 28" on Mathews.

They used to run suuuuuuuuuper long, they are much closer lately with the VXR & V3.


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## whack n stack (Dec 23, 2007)

BucksnBass525 said:


> Im not a hater, owned just about every Mathews flagship hunting bow the last 10 years or longer.
> I like their bows alot and they are getting better, but they are notoriously long on measured draw.
> I shoot 28.5" on Bowtech, Prime, Elite, PSE, Hoyt, etc., but I shoot 28" on Mathews.
> 
> They used to run suuuuuuuuuper long, they are much closer lately with the VXR & V3.


I concur. I've never had one that wasn't at least 1/2" long while in spec. I love the bows, but they do fudge the specs.

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## TangoGorilla (Jul 27, 2021)

RavinHood said:


> Yes. Didn’t get to set up and play with though
> 
> 
> Kellen did a review apples to apples
> ...


Do you have a link to that? 

8 fps for 8# is not worth it.


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## BTtuner (Sep 28, 2017)

SHPoet said:


> I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Haters gonna hate, hate, hate.......


Well no, I am a Mathews dealer an have set up probably hundreds of Mathews in the last decade and yes they do absolutely all run long.


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## greathunter87 (Feb 10, 2021)

SwVaHntr said:


> They have been a grand for a long time.
> The Mach 5 was 1100.00 in 1995


In 2006-2007 hoyt flagships and Mathews and pse were under 1000 


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## greathunter87 (Feb 10, 2021)

jo3st3 said:


> The world is filled with negativity and folks looking to be outraged about almost anything. A minority of folks act like they have their own private archery club and noobs aren't wanted. And anything "flashy" or relatable to younger people, and commonly seen in other sports, makes them bitter. God forbid the guy tries to support his family, and start a business that employees people in his community, with the sport he loves. You'd think the hundreds of hours worth of free instruction online would be enough to solidify some respect.
> 
> The hunting community needs to stick together to defend their rights, and to grow the community so it has a voice. People helping make that happen should be supported. They not only grow the sport (as people continue to leave it), but also make the sport profitable for more US based businesses. If you don't support others in the archery community like this, you may as well say you don't support your right to hunt, freedom, and the American dream. People that haven't figured that out yet should figure it out.


Humans hate others being successful, and not being successful the way they think


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## smau990 (Feb 13, 2021)

Oh the "sword" fight is still on. Meanwhile the Levitate is starting to grow on me.. everyone needs at least two bows right?


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## Elkdreamer21 (Oct 24, 2021)

smau990 said:


> Oh the "sword" fight is still on. Meanwhile the Levitate is starting to grow on me.. everyone needs at least two bows right?


Absolutely, need at least two!!


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## SHPoet (Nov 13, 2009)

BTtuner said:


> Well no, I am a Mathews dealer an have set up probably hundreds of Mathews in the last decade and yes they do absolutely all run long.


Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

SHPoet said:


> Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
> I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.


Mathews itself would use some cleverly worded sales talk and let it drop as they ABSOLUTELY KNOW their bows draw long (or maybe they would simply say they measure draw a bit differently). There is not a reputable Mathews sales rep in the entire country that wouldn’t say they draw a bit long behind closed doors. It is so well known in the industry that I have been in 2 separate dealers over the years as the reps have been there and have witnessed Mathews bows being bought as they were there. They, the reps, stood by quietly and let the bows do the talking or talked the high points of their bows without talking down the other bows. In other words they were being perfectly professional. On both occasions though (and I looked specifically when this was brought up at the reps) the set draw was long. Neither times did the reps look surprised or confused and neither wanted to interject at all. I am a fan of Mathews bows and I love the Marketing and business side of Mathews as well (I love to learn and absorb clever marketing ideas and strategies). They make an outstanding product, it is known industry wide that their 28in draw is not the same as most companies 28 in draw.


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## godwinmt (Nov 25, 2012)

greathunter87 said:


> In 2006-2007 hoyt flagships and Mathews and pse were under 1000
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Based off of straight CPI inflation though, the CPI in 1995 was 150.3, compared to the CPI today which is 274...meaning something today costs 183% more than it did in 1995. A $1k bow in 1995 therefore would be >$1800 today. It sucks, but they're just keeping up with inflation.

It's a hard one for me whether or not the levitate is worth the additional cost over the Mach 1. I think for me a lot of it will come down to what Hoyt pulls out of the bag in another month, and seeing whether or not they'll come out with something that's a legitimate carbon laid up riser like PSE has, or whether or not it's another carbon tube/aluminum erector set that weighs more than last year's aluminum bow...if it's similar to their prior models, then a short draw Levitate may just be in the cards.


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

All I know is that I own four TRX bows and they all draw about 3/8" long, plus or minus. I set up a friend's 38 G2 and it too draws long. Each of my bows (and his, not to mention pretty well everyone who comments on DL here on AT) has a mod 0.5" shorter than DL we typically use on other bows, or as measured, e.g. I am a measured 30" (literally to 1/16") and I shoot 29.5" mods on all four bows with either the strings let out, or made a little long. Typically 3 twists removed from a stock string, plus some tweaking to cables, gets me to my 30". A 30" mod is well long...



SHPoet said:


> Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
> I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.


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## Adamsdjr (Aug 17, 2015)

SHPoet said:


> Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
> I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.


I currently only have 3 Mathews bows, Vertix, V3, and Traverse. So not what most would call a Mathews hater. All measure 1/2” to 5/8” long. To get to my 30” draw length I have to use 29.5” mods.


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## dcopher (Jul 13, 2015)

SHPoet said:


> Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
> I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.


I have set up probably 25 Mathews bows in the last 3-4 years, and have owned and shot 3 of them myself. Every single one of them was 3/8"-1/2" long on the stated draw length module. And these were set up for correct cam timing and draw length measured correctly on a draw board. It is well-known in the industry that they run long, well known. If someone is ordering a Mathews bow, I always tell them to order a 1/2" shorter module than their draw length, and we can adjust from there.


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## carletes47 (Feb 10, 2010)

well now we know that the Mathews go long and their IBO inflated for the same reason, let's talk about PSE levitate please


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

SHPoet said:


> Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
> I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.


You are so incorrect and everyone (including probably you) knows it.

Mathews knows full well their bows run long but they also know they can continue to get away with it. It also helps them goose performance numbers a bit and they sell more mods.


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

SHPoet said:


> Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
> I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.



Dale, is that you?


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## IDABOW (Mar 28, 2005)

Anybody that has worked on a Mathews in the last twenty plus years will tell you they run long, set to factory spec. Period. The fudge factor is on them. Not anyone else.


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

SHPoet said:


> Well, I have worked for Mathews dealers since Mathews' inception. I've seen a few that were long but just a few.
> I wonder how Mathews would react to your statement.


lol, you’ve been around here long enough to that that’s not the case. I’m guessing you’re trolling on this one. If you really believe that then your credibility just went out the door.


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## E. Johnson (Jan 17, 2009)

Are the same people that are complaining about a $1900 hand laid carbon bow complaining about the $1300 Garmin sight or the $625 Beast stand? 
IMO these are all cutting edge tools in the sport and if you want that you have to pay for it if willing. 
They still make $600 bows, $50 sights and $75 treestands that will do the same job as above. 
I'm not in the market to spend that much on a bow, but I'd love to save about 7 lbs on my current treestand with the Beast stand.


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