# DIAMOND'S time to Shine:got the 'Sneek Peeks' for 05's ???



## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

dxismine,

Diamond is no more.
Bowtech bought Diamond, recently.


Sag.


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## bowsmith (Sep 17, 2002)

Sag-
Just because Bowtech bought the line, doesn't mean that they are no more. Sort of like an AR/PSE type thing. Stay tuned for Diamonds new bows.  Good Luck and Safe Shootin'.


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

I thought it was going to be more like a Hoyt/Reflex type thing and the Diamonds will now be the lower-priced wannabee bow, that's the way I understood it. This has not helped Diamond in any IMO way except maybe to finally put some money in their pockets, and they are now able to concentrate totally on their machine shop----course they could've put the money in their pockets alot earlier if they only would've kept the carbon technology they sold a few years ago and advertised or at least updated their website each year so people could look at the products and find both them and their dealers...... I know, I was a Diamond dealer, and they didn't do much for us. They did build fairly nice bows tho, especially the carbon bows. They had good customer service too. But no-one knew about them, and they are now realistically gone for all intents and purposes---they've been sold to another company. End of story.

Too bad too, but I don't think they'll be around long in their "new" form---much like when Escalade bought Xi ( now gone) or Golden Eagle ( now gone), if Bowtech doesn't see immediate sales returns from them,(and how many people bought Diamonds anyway?? Not many if Diamond was forced to sell---something to think about) it won't be worth their while to keep spending the money on them, and if you are a Diamond fan or dealer, well, everyone knows they are not Diamonds anymore but Bowtechs so will probably look elsewhere now to another line--- and if you are a Bowtech fan, you're going to buy a Bowtech anyway, not a Diamond, regardless of price, right? Sorry to bust Diamond fans' bubbles, but I honestly don't see it becoming this big miraculous thing. Again, JMHO.

This only makes sense to me in that Bowtech was buying up and burying a small-percentage competitor, and will slowly fade them out--- no-one (IMHO) is going to buy a Diamond that isn't designed and built by Diamond, and especially so if they are now reduced to being a #2 line for someone else. JMHO Pinwheel 12


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## Zero (Dec 8, 2002)

Pinwheel 12, your forgetting who the new diamond bows will be targeted for. People who buy from Cabelals, Gander Moutain, Wal-mart.......I'm sure that they will sell plenty of bows on that market. I don't really think that it is going to be projected as a top model bow for serious type shooters, so yea your right in that respect, most people who own Diamond bows now will probably be looking else where when it comes time for a new bow.


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

Zero- I certainly agree with who you think they will target, but unfortunately very few who buy from cabelas or other mass merchant-mail-order places have heard of Diamond bows and I think that alone will hurt them significantly sales-wise when compared to the standbys that are already in the catalogs that those buyers know and trust. (and have done so for years) I don't think just being now owned by Bowtech will have an impact on anything to be honest, cause those same people who buy the lower priced bows don't know all that much about them either. Those buyers are well used to household names like PSE and Bear and Buckmasters, etc,.... I personally feel it would take some real time to get them recognized well enough to gain the sales numbers needed to sustain the line, and I doubt that Bowtech will want to spend that kind of money on them for long when they could be putting it into their own product line development/advertising. Everyone needs tax write-offs tho... 

Guess we'll have to wait and see. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Oops, well, I thought they were gone.  
Thanks for the information, Pinwheel.
I am no longer in my state of confusion, lol. 
I agree with you on most archers not wanting a "lower priced wannabee".


Sag.


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## Jose Boudreaux (Oct 18, 2003)

I really wonder if it had to do with the recent modular lawsuit for single cams.

Diamond used modules....maybe it was just better to sell out to Bowtech and concentrate on all the machine work they do, plus didn't bowtech just agree to some patent sharing agreement...hmmmmmmmmmmm....really like my Diamonds, oh well, I will more than be happy with my Hoyts....


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

*"sort of see your point" pinwheel12*

C'mon,Whats wrong with seeing whats out there ??? A NEW TOY.
Still thought it may be nice to see something (maybe a newer riser design?) Revised/Improved some-what? I knew that BOWTECH now has them under there wing, BOWTECH-DIAMOND kinda went hand in hand,some resemblence was there.

Thought their $599 model(forgot the name)- still could be worth at least a "QUIK PEEK" ? I think about one ,just for the improved grip/like the Bowtech's grip. *(grip area was the only thing, I wished DIAMOND had worked on...& a up-todate website.
$599 model I was told, has the new cam system also.Will it be the ULTIMATE ??? I cant say.
Will this BOWTECH/DIAMOND thing fly forever(who cares)as for now, it may be pretty nice...


Still like to SEE 'EM


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

*bowsmith- where are you ?*

Would you be the" CHOSEN ONE" to get some Diamond pic's up ???

* any idea about when/or who to contact ???

If sometime I do need a real " bowsmith" I'll look you up... OK


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## DKN (Dec 14, 2003)

Bowtech will put out two bows for Diamond for 05


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

3 bows.


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## 1tex3d (Jun 13, 2002)

it is my understanding that the gentleman that owned Diamond invented the new cam system that both bowtech/diamond are using so I guess he made them buy the package deal.....good business move if you ask me


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## CA_Rcher12 (Oct 28, 2004)

Get a peek:
www.diamondarchery.com
The site's still under consruction, though.


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## La Crosse (Sep 20, 2004)

> it is my understanding that the gentleman that owned Diamond invented the new cam system that both bowtech/diamond are using so I guess he made them buy the package deal.....good business move if you ask me


The guy at Diamond didn't invent it.


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## pro38_shooter (Sep 22, 2002)

Here's your 2005 Diamond preview.............


The Rapture


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## pro38_shooter (Sep 22, 2002)

The Triumph


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## pro38_shooter (Sep 22, 2002)

The Victory Solitare cam


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## pro38_shooter (Sep 22, 2002)

The Victory Dual.


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## pro38_shooter (Sep 22, 2002)

Rapture

33 ATA
7.5 Brace
292-300 fps

Triumph

31.5 ATA
8.5 Brace
302-310 fps

Victory Solitare
34.5 ATA
7.25 Brace
308-316

Dual

35.75 ATA
8 Brace
308-316


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## archerynut02 (Jul 28, 2002)

The Victory Dual. sweet any idea on price points or when they will be avalible


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

*victory $$$*

archerynut02 : I've seen the Victory price point at $599

I like the newer designs : looks like a couple have the movable limb pockets(always nice). Glad to see they improved the grips on the Diamonds. 
*** Any-one know what material the grips consist of ??? 

thanks,D'X


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## pdq 5oh (Sep 7, 2002)

I don't think it's time to count Diamond out. BowTech came out, and went head to head with the big boys. And has done quite well. They've now got Diamond to go head to head with the big boys, in a different market. I see no reason for any different result.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Wow, these are some VERY nice looking bows High brace heights, good speeds, very slim lines and great price points. I'd like to know the weights of the bows but it looks like 3.5 to 4 pounds max. IMO looks alone will sell these bows to Cabelas and Bass Pro arm chair shoppers I'm one of those too That Victory dual looks VERY much like my Pat DC with very respectable speed for an 8 inch brace bow!!! Hope I get to see them in the big stores soon..


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## nccrutch (Feb 26, 2003)

I like the looks of the Victory Dual.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

I don't know guys,, but these look very much like "pro shop" bows to me  Bass Pro is building a store about 35 miles from me next year I can't wait to shop till I drop


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## DorfonArchery (Nov 5, 2004)

I have been shooting Diamond bows for several years now and can only see good things coming now they have have been brought out by Bowtech.

I can see the Victory Dual being added to my collection next year.


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

For $599 they don't sound like "midrange" bows to me, but more along the lines of trying to compete with higher-grade bows such as the Parker Phoenix for instance which BTW offers the exact same price point--- only difference is the Phoenix has a bunch of additional Sims goodies unlike the Diamond bows.(BTW--are those plastic or rubber grips on the Diamonds now?? Can't tell by the pic, but the wood looks to now be gone? Hmmm.  )

"Midrange" bows normally run up to about $400 or so in the mail-order catalogs, bows such as the PSE Firestorm Lite and the like, and some such as the aforementioned Firestorm Lite come as KITS for that kind of money.... I can see how Bowtech wants to break into the mail-order market without selling-out their main line to the box stores/catalogs and in the process cutting all of the Pro shops' nads across America like others have done, but I still don't see these bows bringing that kind of money seeing as they are admittedly(by Bowtech themselves) touted as a "midrange" bow. And how can they compete with the other $600 bows like the Parker Phoenix (their top model BTW) unless you deck them out at least comparatively? Yeah, the purely fanatical Diamond shooters that do not feel odd about their company being bought out, and a few of the "cheap" Bowtech followers may buy them-- but realistically, how many of them are there? Enough to keep the brand rolling?? I don't have the answer to that, and neither does anyone else. Roll the dice.

It'll be interesting to see what develops.


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## pdq 5oh (Sep 7, 2002)

I think having BowTech behind Diamond will only strengthen them. People are well aware of BowTech's track record re: customer service. I suspect it will be the same for the Diamond line of bows.


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

The Solitare and Dual look a lot like an AR.


Sag.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Pinwheel 12 said:


> *For $599 they don't sound like "midrange" bows to me, but more along the lines of trying to compete with higher-grade bows such as the Parker Phoenix for instance which BTW offers the exact same price point--- only difference is the Phoenix has a bunch of additional Sims goodies unlike the Diamond bows.(BTW--are those plastic or rubber grips on the Diamonds now?? Can't tell by the pic, but the wood looks to now be gone? Hmmm.  )
> 
> "Midrange" bows normally run up to about $400 or so in the mail-order catalogs, bows such as the PSE Firestorm Lite and the like, and some such as the aforementioned Firestorm Lite come as KITS for that kind of money.... I can see how Bowtech wants to break into the mail-order market without selling-out their main line to the box stores/catalogs and in the process cutting all of the Pro shops' nads across America like others have done, but I still don't see these bows bringing that kind of money seeing as they are admittedly(by Bowtech themselves) touted as a "midrange" bow. And how can they compete with the other $600 bows like the Parker Phoenix (their top model BTW) unless you deck them out at least comparatively? Yeah, the purely fanatical Diamond shooters that do not feel odd about their company being bought out, and a few of the "cheap" Bowtech followers may buy them-- but realistically, how many of them are there? Enough to keep the brand rolling?? I don't have the answer to that, and neither does anyone else. Roll the dice.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see what develops. *



The Victory Solitare and the Victory dual ARE the top priced Diamond bows which,, when I do the math compare directly with the $600.00 Parker Wouldn't you agree that $599.00 is very close to $600.00??? The Pearson Freedom is $559.99 Dagger Kinetic cam is $569.99, Martin Cougar III SE Dyna cam is $529.99, Buckmaster G2 and G2XL is $499.00 Browning Mirage 1.5 is $499.00. PSE Vengeance is $649.99, Alpine Fatal Impact is $589.99, PES Primos is $649.99. These are all catalog bows that we can compare in the VERY nice Keystone Country Store catalog,,, without bias. Some of the most successful bowhunters I know don't own a pro shop bow,,, it's just not part of the ingredient to being a well fed hunter. Myself,, I have proved that owning pro shop bows dosen't mean SQUAT when it comes to filling the freezer or hanging a great head above the fireplace or just enjoying the hunting experience. Many people can't or just refuse to pay pro shop prices on the top bows on the market.
These Diamond bows,, even without handling them or seeing them in real life will do the job in the field or on the line. It's good to know that there's more to choose from in the future,, even without all this speculation about if the Diamond line will please the buyers or compete with the competition.


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## Jose Boudreaux (Oct 18, 2003)

what was wrong with the other diamond grips with the side plates???

I liked them...the ones now look cheap....


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Well,,, make your own or call Bowtech to see if there will be an aftermarket grip available. The bows haven't been shipped yet, maybe you can start a poll to see what would be the popular choice,, not having seen or handled them yet


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## Archerybuff (Oct 6, 2002)

*One Things for sure.........*

I've been a Diamond dealer for 3 years and I've haven't seen this much exposure all 3 years combined. 
There is a lot of chit chat about the new Diamond line. Most of which has been generated by the "Bowtech " name. We'll see if that name sells very many bows or just gets people looking.
Seems most of the positive posts have been by Bowtech backers. People that already own Bowtechs or have owned them in the past. Not sure how many of those people will purchase a Diamond. Might seem like a step down for them. 
The Diamond of the past was no step down. They made a quality bow at a very good price. IMO one of the best deals in archery. 
The thing that puzzles me most is why they dropped every model Diamond made. A couple bows were maybe due for some "sprucing up", but others were excellent, the Gladiator and Machete especially. 
Leads me to believe that maybe it was a financial problem with Diamond. Maybe Bowtech was bailing them out? I can't believe they bought them for the name. Especially if the line is mainly for mass market. Very few people have heard of Diamond bows.
Without having shot the bows the only positive aspect right now would be the increased exposure. Not sure how much that will help shops anyway. 
Oh Well, only time will tell.


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## Jose Boudreaux (Oct 18, 2003)

> Well,,, make your own or call Bowtech to see if there will be an aftermarket grip available. The bows haven't been shipped yet, maybe you can start a poll to see what would be the popular choice,, not having seen or handled them yet


I be done with Diamond. I had a widowmaker3 target on order since May. Spoke with Paul(sales Rep.) at the end of September with Josh(the president) nearby. I was told they hoped to have the anodized parts by Oct. 1st. Take a wild guess what happened at that time. They got bought out....orders placed before the transfer of "powers" no longer exist. 5 months of waiting for NOTHING!!!! I was told by two reliable sources that the sales rep had lost the order but I don't think they had the parts for it anyway.....they were some awesome mack daddy made bows....no doubt about that....

life goes on..all three Diamonds are now sold....one Hoyt on the way with another bow order to be place monday or tuesday....


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

WWAG-

Please re-read my post--- if you do so with an open mind you may understand it.

First, The Diamonds cannot (IMO) be directly compared to those other bows because they do not have near the same attributes out of the box as many of those others you mentioned and as I stated in my post, the Phoenix---Pearson Freedom has wood grips and VibX dampening for $40 less,(ditto on the Dagger) the Martin Cougar SE Dynacam has extra dampening goodies for $70 less, the Buckmaster and the Browning are both $100 less and are closer to the Diamond in attributes, and the PSE's also are all duded up for $50 more.

They also stated that the Diamonds were to be a "midrange" bow, not top of the line. While the bows may be the lines' highest priced models, they still are not what anyone could call "midrange".

So tell me the truth---if YOU are going to spend $600, are you going to spend it on a Diamond, or a Bowtech???? C'mon now....

And, I take direct offense to the scoffing of Pro Shops. Maybe you yourself have no need for them or don't shoot indoors, and have no problem yourself letting every Archery Pro shop rot into the ground, but if the Archery industry is left to only the mega stores and is not kept alive in local communities, then we will soon be gone. Without continued local exposure to our sport thru the pro shops, along with offering places in every community to shoot, future generations (and possibly even us) will soon have no alternative but to choose another sport where local access is readily available. ( Are the mega stores gonna open a store in your downtown, complete with ranges, instruction, and kids programs? Nope, not here either!) 

Pro shop prices are realistically not all that much higher than the mail-order prices, and each dollar spent in your local shop ensures that the sport will be around later down the road for your kids and theirs to enjoy, and that is the bottom line. You say people refuse to pay the pro shop prices, and it's only because they don't have to. If the manufacturers made sure all dealerships including the box stores had the same pricing across the board no matter where or how much they bought, then you'd be more apt to see people visit their local dealerships and the sport would once again flourish. You say it's great to have options and I agree, but I do not believe that box storesand cheap prices are the way to promote and grow our sport. It simply makes it easier for the manufacturers to make an easy buck RIGHT NOW, but what they fail to realize is that by giving discounts to the box stores they effectively chop the Pro shops all across the country at the same time. Only those manufacturers who either restrict sales to pro shops only,(they know who they are) or those who demand MAP amongst ALL dealerships ( they know who they are also) with promise to pull said dealership should the MAP be breeched are effectively helping our industry survive. The rest are jackals IMHO without care--the money only, not the love of the sport. We all have to survive this is true, but a few extra bucks so your kids can later on, well I dunno about you, but it's certainly worth it to me.

Sorry for the rant everyone. Pinwheel 12


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

*pinwheel12*

man, your taking up way to much space on this posting. (whens your new BOOK coming out,anyway???)
give it a rest.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

Pinwheel 12 said:


> *WWAG-
> 
> Please re-read my post--- if you do so with an open mind you may understand it.
> 
> ...




We're used to the "rant" with each and every post you make regarding BowTech or anything BowTech related. I don't believe I've ever read a thread on BowTech where you didn't have something negitative to say 

Like I said, there's bows for pros and then there's bows that many more people can afford to buy,,, which gets them into archery. I've owned everything from $750.00 bows to used $50.00 E-Bay specials and they all have one thing in common,,, they all shoot arrows into the heart or the X when set up well.
Myself,, I'd love to own and operate a "pro" shop one day because it's what I love to do, just like you all do. But there's one thing I'd never do if I did own a shop or an archery business. I wouldn't come on here and degrade another manufacture's equipment or it's shooters or it's business endevors and then expect to have people walk in my shop and do business with me.


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

*walks with a gimp*

now those were some "words of wisdom"... you rock


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## BowTech_Shooter (Aug 21, 2002)

I figured I'd add my .02 cents worth now since I see this thread's getting nowhere fast... 


I've read through all the BS, speculations (and of course the truths from those that are in the know) that I could stand to read so let me just add this... 

There's going to be 3 Diamond bows in the 2005 line, well actually 4 because the Victory is available as a single or dual cam bow. The price points are *SRP* $399.00, $499.00 and $599.00... Not just $599.00... 

All 3 are very good price points for the quality and you may ask, Is someone going to buy a $599.00 Diamond over a $599.00 BowTech? Without a doubt! Because they're going to buy them not only from Pro Shops that are carrying the Diamond line but they'll also buy them from big chain stores or catalogs where they can't buy a BowTech bow from. 

IMO, Most folks will know when they buy a Diamond "by BowTech" bow they're getting a great product backed by great customer service of a young but great company... 


I'm also willing to bet that the new Diamond "by BowTech" company already has more dealers signed up than some smaller bow companies that have been around for a good number of years...   But that's just my speculation...


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## pdq 5oh (Sep 7, 2002)

Pinwheel, I understand your points. However, you seem to have decided that Diamond will fail, and is the wrong thing for archery in general. The pricing you refer to is MSRP. And as we all know, there's MSRP, and there's the actual selling price. So expect to see them a bit lower than what you state. The people that buy bows online, or from mega stores, will continue to do so. Can't Merlins even be bought online? I don't see it as the end of pro shops and archery. I see it as a new direction taken by BowTech to put their product into more hands. And as I'm sure you know, businesses don't prosper and grow unless they make moves to facilitate prosperity.


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

If I really hated the local "pro shop" that had pi$$ poor attitudes, high pricing and degraded other manufactures equipment,,, I'd be more than happy and willing to buy a Diamond brand bow,, or any other brand bow that I thought might perform like I'd expect, from a big box store online or walk in. 
I hope the Diamond bows are in the catalogs before Christmas


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

WWAG-

I don't believe I speak on the Bowtechs much at all and in this instance we were speaking of DIAMOND bows, who just happen to now be owned by Bowtech. To be honest you could put Escalade, PSE, Hoyt, Merlin, Mathews, or any other name there, and I would've responded the same way. I hate to see mainline bows get shelved or bought out then brought down to "2nd rate", no matter by who. Has nothing to do with Bowtech, tho the "contingent" is certainly here to try their best to ensure I don't say anything remotely negative about them without rebuttal! LOL. Further, I don't see how coming on and giving my honest opinion(along with sticking up for Pro shop sales you so indignantly slammed) has anything to do with "degrading" any manufacturer--I was talking varying price points and giving opinion on whether or not a bought-out company would have high enough sales to keep them going---how can you twist that around to attack MY character, after virtually condemning all Pro shops in the same thread? Anyway, enough. I'll say no more on this subject after this. Think what you will.

Pat--

I only knew of pricing being at $599, so responded to that. If the pricing on some of the models was down in the area of $399-$499, then yes, that is more in the "midrange" we were discussing and could in fact compete with the Browning, Buckmasters, Firestorm Lite, and others in the same general category. My apologies there if I misinterpreted anyone.

Could've done without that little dig at the end tho. That's OK.

Phil--

As stated I was utilizing the price point of $599, and in that instance, yes, the bows I felt would not compete. Basically I based my opinions on that and the fact that others have bought out better-known companies and failed with them within a year or two. Just using stats.

D"x"is mine--

Free country son. Ain't it great?


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## tiner64 (Oct 10, 2004)

*son?*

guess I will be ditchin' my Mathews LX'(great bow) 
getting a Diamond- nope, changed my mind now???

probally get a Merlin(dont hear much bout' them -almost like a Diamond was,back in the day)

*was 1st posted: all I really wanted- was just to see what Diamond had come up with.
if the funds were there I'd have a variety of top name bows around-even Merlin(look like a True Top Notch bow)dealers,no-where near my area... 
pinwheel12-wish only the best for you(truly)
take care, d'x


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## walks with a gi (Oct 1, 2002)

*"Character"*

"quote"

how can you twist that around to attack MY character, after virtually condemning all Pro shops in the same thread? 

Don't go putting words in my mouth , I didn't condem all Proshops,, just the ones that aren't doing archery and the manufacture's products any justice (you know who you are). I've been to a few shops that shouldn't be anywhere near a set of allen wrenches. If I want my bow worked on,,, I do it just like a GROWING number of people are doing it just for the reasons stated.
I'm done with this nonsense Pin,,you've earned yourself a spot on my ignore list...


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## Pinwheel 12 (Jun 11, 2002)

D'X"-

No malice intended with the "son". And, nothing wrong with owning a variety of bows---that way you find out what YOU prefer. Just remember, biggest doesn't necessarily always mean BEST. 

WWAG--

Thanks for the ignore list insertion. I'll do the same. Both better off that way seeing as we cannot agree on anything.


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## DorfonArchery (Nov 5, 2004)

Bowtech has gone from start up company to major contender in a very short time so from a business standpoint I think they have shown they know what they are doing. They are also going to great lengths to grow and support archery by sending bows to our troops. 

There are many bowhunters who are geographically isolated enough that mail order purchase is their only option so I think it is a benefit to archery in general to make available a high quality product to mail order and "Mart" retailers.


They do in fact protect pro shops by pulling the dealerships of shops that attempt internet sales.


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## TheRealTruth (Jun 21, 2004)

Pinwheel 12 said:


> *WWAG-
> 
> And, I take direct offense to the scoffing of Pro Shops. Maybe you yourself have no need for them or don't shoot indoors, and have no problem yourself letting every Archery Pro shop rot into the ground, but if the Archery industry is left to only the mega stores and is not kept alive in local communities, then we will soon be gone. Without continued local exposure to our sport thru the pro shops, along with offering places in every community to shoot, future generations (and possibly even us) will soon have no alternative but to choose another sport where local access is readily available. ( Are the mega stores gonna open a store in your downtown, complete with ranges, instruction, and kids programs? Nope, not here either!)
> 
> ...




It seems you speak for (in words), yet also against (by actions) Pro Shops. 

My point being. Doesn't internet sales (such as your pinwheelproducts company) take sales away from a persons local shop? Don't you ship items across the land into the areas of other shops that could have sold the same items to their customers and made a little bit of money to boost their local enconomy?

Hypothetically speaking, wouldn't it tick you off if your next door neighbor bought a brand new bow from a internet sales shop out of MN. instead of walking over to your shop and doing so? I think the answer is obvious.


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## niteshade (Feb 7, 2004)

*information*

i just might have some information for you all in a week or so. the new diamond's are great!


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