# Am I in the minority?



## Kc5 (Jan 3, 2011)

How many of you actually try to abide by the ASA rule on arrow speed?

I recently shot a round and one of the guys in the group bragged several times about how fast his bow was. He was shooting 330 plus and said he had one pin good to 35 yards. Based on the equipment and set up, there was no doubt, especially if you had to pull his arrows.

As a conservative estimate, better than half of the people shooting at the club are shooting over 288. It's common knowledge that nobody would have to shoot through a chrono, because participation (money for the club) would suffer.

Some say it will catch up with them at a ProAm, but I found this to not be the case. I saw a guy in my group at Paris shoot through the chrono on the practice range and he was shooting 300. Too each his own.

As long as I'm venting, why do people think 3D is scored like horseshoes. If you are close to a 12, they think you get to score a 12.

I won my class, shooting 281 fps, so I'm not bitter about what everybody else does. Just curious if I'm in the minority of _slow_ shooters?


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## mathewdbl_lung (Mar 17, 2008)

First off congrats on you win with a legal speed!

I think it is up to the individual......are they honest or dishonest.....that being said I have my bow *right* at the speed limit when I go to speed restricted events. I take the risk that their chrono will be the same or slower than mine, if not I face a possible DQ. We all like to push it to the edge in competition. The large ASA shoots get too many shooters to check everyone, but at the last one I went to, a judge went around in a golf cart with a chrono atttached and made random shooters test there speed during the competitive round. Just short of having everyone shoot through a chrono when they check into their assigned range there is no way to stop it.

Now we get into the question, as technology advances should we raise the legal speed limit? But now the older, injured shoulder, smaller muscled, shorter draw lengthed shooters are a a disadvantage right off the git go. (NOT ment as an insult, just listing some of the situations where shooters might not be able to get over 280's fps)

:darkbeer:


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## RADAR72 (Feb 16, 2009)

That's why I think there should be an outlaw class at ASA shoots. If you wanna shoot over 280 that's fine you just get lumped in with all the others shooting over the limit. Give them their own stake and make the bow requirements for speed, stabs, sights and releases unlimited and let them all fight it out between themselves. Just my .02


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## lknchoppers (Jun 13, 2008)

I think if the rules state less than 288 fps they need to enforce it. If your local shoot doesn't have a speed limit, well then have at it, that's the way it is.


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## CarbonExtreme (Jul 7, 2010)

Can always pay $25 and file a formal protest (I think that's what it costs). 

Personally I like to keep my speed in the 285 range. Anything over is weak sauce imo.


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## FLDartonGuy (Jul 23, 2008)

I believe most people are doing the right thing. I know I am. I only shoot 277 fps but I shoot known so speed doesn't do anything for me. Around where I am from, all of the people that I know and that are shooting over the ASA speed limit, do not shoot ASA events nor do they ever intend to. Also, a couple of the clubs insist that people that shoot 290 or over shoot from the farthest stake so as to limit the wear and tear on the targets.

As for the technology changing and the bows getting faster. It is what it is. Maybe the outlaw class is the answer, but only if you are shooting a hunting set-up. I would say the majority of the people shooting the national ASA events have more than one bow, one for tournaments and the other for hunting. If people can't afford more than one set-up then that is where the outlaw class would come in. However, like I said before, hunting rigs only. I personally don't know anyone who shoots a bow with a long stablizer with back bars, super fat arrows, and a long sight bar and scope in the woods. Of course that doesn't that there isn't anybody out there doing it but I just don't know any.

My opinion only and we all know what they say about those.


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

If someone wanted to shoot a national event and shoot over 288fps just shoot IBO. Pretty simple to me. Personally, I like the way ASA does it. Keeping the speed limit to what it is allows for those with shorter draw lenghts and weaker pulls to shoot against people like me that have a 30" draw length and can pull as much weight as they want. Keeps everyone on a level playing field.

That being said, I know there were people at Georgia shooting too fast. I went to verify my bow between my rounds Saturday (open C) and when I got to the crono, it was reading 292. There was no one near me so my best guess is they figured what the heck and shot anyway because they probably wouldn't get caught.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

pat yourself on the shoulder for playing by the rules, I can not stomach a cheater-great job and congrats, I shoot 278!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Been to several ASA where they did chronograph shooters and it very rare for them to catch anyone and when they do no ones shooting fast. Maybe a few feet. Most of know and can spot a fast bow.
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I guess it all depends. 

I have shot many ASA "style" shoots, basically anything goes with equip but they wanted a shoot off at the end to keep people around. Was pretty exciting actually.

But if this was an actual sanctioned ASA event - then thats just flat out wrong.


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## John-in-VA (Mar 27, 2003)

I keep mine around 284-285 fps .The first thing I do when I get to a shoot is shoot trough the crono and see how fast I'm shooting .In Ga on Friday it read 284 same as mine at home .Last year they caught a couple guy's in the hunter class speeding ,they got DQ'ed on the spot .I think most people play buy the rules .


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

In our area you shoot through the chrono before you get a score card and your speed is written on the top of your score card. You break 288 you shoot outlaw. This year at our state qualifier I shot my M7 for the first time and chronoed 289. 1/2 a crank and I was at 287 and shot 199 with no real significant difference in arrow impact. So in response to your question if I were you I'd push for chronographs on every range, otherwise keep whipping them "legally", good on you!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Daniel Boone said:


> Been to several ASA where they did chronograph shooters and it very rare for them to catch anyone and when they do no ones shooting fast. Maybe a few feet. Most of know and can spot a fast bow.
> DB


I agree....Those of us that have been shooting for a while....can guess pretty close if someone is shooting legal or not....


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

John-in-VA said:


> I keep mine around 284-285 fps .The first thing I do when I get to a shoot is shoot trough the crono and see how fast I'm shooting .In Ga on Friday it read 284 same as mine at home .Last year they caught a couple guy's in the hunter class speeding ,they got DQ'ed on the spot .I think most people play buy the rules .


They will and have taken the chrono out onto the ranges.....The thing is you do not know if or when...and where they are going to stop..... So, if you want to speed...you can but just be warned you could just get caught.............

Same thing with like driving the speed limit....You take your chance when you go over the limit....


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

The level of cheating at 3D matches astounds me. It has always been this way. If nobody is checking speeds few will play square. This is why I think most rules should be eliminated. We have way too many classes and restrictions. Let's just make keeping your foot on the stake the only real rule. See what advances in gear will happen. No NASCAR like restrictor plates and such as that.

This way we'll have fewer problems with equipment cheating in general.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

mathewdbl_lung said:


> First off congrats on you win with a legal speed!
> 
> I think it is up to the individual......are they honest or dishonest.....that being said I have my bow *right* at the speed limit when I go to speed restricted events. I take the risk that their chrono will be the same or slower than mine, if not I face a possible DQ. We all like to push it to the edge in competition. The large ASA shoots get too many shooters to check everyone, but at the last one I went to, a judge went around in a golf cart with a chrono atttached and made random shooters test there speed during the competitive round. Just short of having everyone shoot through a chrono when they check into their assigned range there is no way to stop it.
> 
> ...


I view archery as a true athletic event. The strongest, most fit archer should have the advantage. Just like in baseball or golf. Big guys with powerful swings hit farther. I do not like the notion of handicapping athletic events to make them "fair". This misses the whole point of seeing who is the superior athlete. Long draws, big muscles? You should have an advantage. Life is not fair and neither should be athletics.


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## RADAR72 (Feb 16, 2009)

Well my club will be hosting a state qualifier in June and we will have the chrony out checking speeds at check in. I will give them an opportunity to slow their bow down if they are too fast, but they will not receive a scorecard until they comply. That's my solution for this year anyway.


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## mathewdbl_lung (Mar 17, 2008)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> I view archery as a true athletic event. The strongest, most fit archer should have the advantage. Just like in baseball or golf. Big guys with powerful swings hit farther. I do not like the notion of handicapping athletic events to make them "fair". This misses the whole point of seeing who is the superior athlete. Long draws, big muscles? You should have an advantage. Life is not fair and neither should be athletics.


I share your argument and almost put it in my first post but......it would make me feel like crap if I won and was shooting 20+fps fasters then the rest of the guys. *It just proves my bow was faster and I was not the better shot or judge of yardage*


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## Josh_Putman (Jun 18, 2004)

Here in Michigan at ASA qualifiers, everyone has to shoot over the chrono after coming off the course. There is a person standing there who writes your speed on the top of your scorecard. 

The chrono is there for use before going on the course to verify your speed is legal. The only time speed is "officially" checked is coming off the course.

I have really only seen one person get DQ'd at a shoot. 

By the way Kc5, I have won a few shoots only shooting about 266 fps. Keep up the good work.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I like the idea of checking afterwards......

That way you already have their money in hand 

I mentioned it before but I was at a national event and EVERYONE had to shoot through the chrono before going onto the course


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

At the state shoot hear last year it was set up to shoot before the shoot started. I think mine came in at 284, but there were some that went over the 288 and they were allowed to turn it down and then shoot once they reached speed.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Kc5 said:


> As long as I'm venting, why do people think 3D is scored like horseshoes. If you are close to a 12, they think you get to score a 12.
> I won my class, shooting 281 fps, so I'm not bitter about what everybody else does. Just curious if I'm in the minority of _slow_ shooters?


I've heard to the "close call" scores. It only takes one person to speak up and a judge will intervene. If hostilities come from it, call the judge again. The BS will stop through disqualification - conduct un-becoming.

At 281 fps you have me beat. Last check showed 268 fps.


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## Mich.bowhunter (Jun 29, 2007)

Josh_Putman said:


> Here in Michigan at ASA qualifiers, everyone has to shoot over the chrono after coming off the course. There is a person standing there who writes your speed on the top of your scorecard.
> 
> The chrono is there for use before going on the course to verify your speed is legal. The only time speed is "officially" checked is coming off the course.
> 
> ...


X2 I was checked at Sparta Sunday.280 right on.They checked everyone.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

i seriously doubt anyone was or has ever competed at and ASA event shooting 300fps...They would be noticed real quick. especially in the upper classess! I think 99.9% of the folks intend/beleive to be legal when they arrive. Some try to get as close to 288 as they can on their chronos at home and sooner or later get busted by a faster reading meter. chronos vary, and thats why there is a a 3% grace...280 is the rule. 288 is the max for grace!


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## mathewdbl_lung (Mar 17, 2008)

Josh_Putman said:


> Here in Michigan at ASA qualifiers, everyone has to shoot over the chrono after coming off the course. QUOTE]
> 
> I think that great!
> 
> ...


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

J Whittington said:


> i seriously doubt anyone was or has ever competed at and ASA event shooting 300fps...They would be noticed real quick. especially in the upper classess! I think 99.9% of the folks intend/beleive to be legal when they arrive. Some try to get as close to 288 as they can on their chronos at home and sooner or later get busted by a faster reading meter. chronos vary, and thats why there is a a 3% grace...280 is the rule. 288 is the max for grace!


someone got caught shooting 320 jerry and he was not even shooting an adult class


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## archerykid13 (Aug 11, 2009)

I think that everyone should have to abide by it. I'm shooting 274 with my 3D setup right now.

Jake


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## markb317 (Nov 18, 2009)

At the ASA ProAm in Kentucky last year
they setup a chrono on the Bow Novice course and everyone had to shoot thru it, they caught like 9 guys shooting over 288 and took their score cards. It does not pay to speed at a ProAm event.


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## cookiemonster (Dec 4, 2006)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> The level of cheating at 3D matches astounds me. It has always been this way. If nobody is checking speeds few will play square. This is why I think most rules should be eliminated. We have way too many classes and restrictions. Let's just make keeping your foot on the stake the only real rule. See what advances in gear will happen. No NASCAR like restrictor plates and such as that.
> 
> This way we'll have fewer problems with equipment cheating in general.


The speed rule and 5 grns. were brought in to play for safety before when it was anything goes had gone to big shoots and seen up to 18 people leave in an ambulance because of equipment failure. In the circuit of clubs around me we have a outlaw class with no speed rule and their are guys who shoot with asa legal equipment and they are the ones who win not the speed.


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## HunterRidge (Oct 7, 2008)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> I view archery as a true athletic event. The strongest, most fit archer should have the advantage. Just like in baseball or golf. Big guys with powerful swings hit farther. I do not like the notion of handicapping athletic events to make them "fair". This misses the whole point of seeing who is the superior athlete. Long draws, big muscles? You should have an advantage. Life is not fair and neither should be athletics.


Just a known fact, the biggest and brightest are NOT always the best! What sport or athletic event have you seen besides bodybuilding or anything to do with weights where the biggest guy with the big muscles always win? Everybody would be a roid freak if that were the case. I have torn both my shoulders, only 5'8", 130 lbs (scrawny lil guy), I pull 47 lbs, 26" draw and will go up against anybody, any size, any sport. Michael Jordan was not the Hulk and done pretty well in his days. just my .02


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

HunterRidge said:


> Just a known fact, the biggest and brightest are NOT always the best! What sport or athletic event have you seen besides bodybuilding or anything to do with weights where the biggest guy with the big muscles always win? Everybody would be a roid freak if that were the case. I have torn both my shoulders, only 5'8", 130 lbs (scrawny lil guy), I pull 47 lbs, 26" draw and will go up against anybody, any size, any sport. Michael Jordan was not the Hulk and done pretty well in his days. just my .02


You miss the point. If archer A is stronger than archer B and can handle heavier gear and thus shoot a faster arrow he should be allowed to use his superior physical gifts to use the faster bow. (heavier bow)

This is the same as Pujols in baseball being a large man capable of hitting a ball 480 feet. Smaller ball players of equal skill can only hit 400 feet because they lack Pujol's gift of superior strength. This is what athletics is about - see who the superior speciman is. Both in body and coordination. 

If you are a small man you may have to come to some understanding that in athletics you are at a disadvantage. Either lose like a gentleman of diminutive size or get out of the game. 

As for describing your own physical shape, I'm only 5 foot 10 and weigh 175 pounds. Yet I shoot an 80 pound longbow and have for 30 years. I achieve this by working out with weights year round and for years on end. I work at it. You do not it would appear. So why should you be allowed an even playing field with me? You have not earned it. Sports are tough. I don't think you are. Sorry, friend, you asked for it.


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## fatboyshooter (Feb 9, 2010)

People in the advanced open classes know the time it takes between the bow going off and the sound of foam, I don't see how speeders could get away with cheating w/ out being turned in. I don't have a speed problem shooting an 08' Constitution with a 28" DL and a 300 grain Victory X-Ringer. I shoot 57 to 60 lb. DW.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

fatboyshooter, I think most guys don't want to get involved. It takes some guts to turn a guy in. I like to think of myself as a tough guy but often fail to step forward when I know somebody is cheating. For me the weekend shoot is best played for fun only. I don't want the headache. But in any kind of large shoot I certainly would gripe.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> You miss the point. If archer A is stronger than archer B and can handle heavier gear and thus shoot a faster arrow he should be allowed to use his superior physical gifts to use the faster bow. (heavier bow)
> 
> This is the same as Pujols in baseball being a large man capable of hitting a ball 480 feet. Smaller ball players of equal skill can only hit 400 feet because they lack Pujol's gift of superior strength. This is what athletics is about - see who the superior speciman is. Both in body and coordination.
> 
> ...


What an asinine statement to make. You make it sound like whoever can do the most pushups gets to shoot the fastest bow. This not the case. If you want to shoot unlimited speed shoot IBO. If you shoot ASA, stay within the speed limit as the rules specify. You are not being handicapped anymore than anyone else by following the rules. If archery were an athletic competition as stated, more than 1/2 of the field would be eliminated simply because they are out of shape (although I hear "round" is a shape). And there would be only 1 class, not 10 or 12 or how many there are today. It would be "run what ya brung". Thankfully, more open minds run these tournaments and have checks and balances inplace to weed out the cheaters...


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Archery is a shooting sport not a let's see who can pull the most weight and shoot the fastest. It is about accuracy! It can be compared to pistol or rifle shooting you don't have to be more athletic to be accurate. In other sports being more physically gifted is required. Competitve 3D archery will never grow and get respect with people looking to break rules and be outllaws. At a ASA Pro Am event everyone should have to shoot through a Chrono when they are finished. I would suggest the ASA post a phone number that you could anonymously send a text to during competition to turn someone in that is suspected of shooting over the speed limit. The officials would then receive the information and investigate. Will 3D archery every be a gentlemens game like golf? Not with the attitudes of the participants.


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> I view archery as a true athletic event. The strongest, most fit archer should have the advantage. Just like in baseball or golf. Big guys with powerful swings hit farther. I do not like the notion of handicapping athletic events to make them "fair". This misses the whole point of seeing who is the superior athlete. Long draws, big muscles? You should have an advantage. Life is not fair and neither should be athletics.


If this is the way you feel, you have no reason to shoot ASA events. You would probably be better suited for IBO or some sport that isn't about skill and form. Some sports are meant for the biggest, fastest and strongest players, but archery is a sport that that focuses on form and control. If you had to be 6'5" tall and bench press 400# to be competitive, it would't be nearly as big as it is. Not trying to offend you in any way, just want you to see the difference.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

I suppose the person making the comments about pulling the most weight and such, does not know how that can be a benifit for them as well shooting ASA and staying in the rules of 280. It would let you shoot a MUCH heavier arrow. This would give you the advantage of when it needs to be. When the 12 or 14 ring is tightly packed and your shooting a heavy arrow like 500 or 600gpi (because your just so strong, and your bow would be too fast), would enable you to drive your arrow deep inside of the group. Simple law of physics. Mass & Weight is less able to be moved then Mass and light weight. Just a little info.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Boys, for one thing I only shoot traditional and yes I do shoot IBO. I was just telling you that I view archery as a true athletic event like hitting a golf ball for distance. I have not interest in light target gear and shooting bows that do not require any level of physical fitness. I'd rather throw darts in a pub than shoot a 35# recurve or 50# compound. Such activity bores the life out of me. If you like it, fine. I simply prefer a different approach that calls out for a much higher level of all around training. Both physical and mental.

As for small men in athletic events? That's life. Big strong men have the edge. I get the feeling our world has become a bastion of T-ball devotees where everyone gets to be a champion with no real effort put forth.

So I'll stay with IBO Longbow where a heavy bow is allowed and gives one a small edge in most cases.


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## hdracer (Aug 8, 2007)

I see your point. I see all the 6' 5" 275 lbs archers winning and standing on the podium at the Olympic,s, FITAs and World-level achery competitions and the small statured archers standing to the side licking their wounds. The point is you don't need to be big and strong to excell at this sport. Perfect practice and more perfect practice along with a tough mental attitude separate the winners and losers. You may feel you need to be able to draw 80 + lbs to be a real archer but the Korean Olympic teams have shown otherwise, as has the US Olympic teams.


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## kennyelp (May 30, 2007)

Well here in Texas at all of the ASA events you are required to shoot through the chono before the start of the shoot, and the speed is written on your score card.If your speed is higher than it should be you are given a chance to lower the speed before you shoot, and I'm sure that is done at the Pro-Am that is at Paris,Tx every year which I I shot at only once 3 years ago.


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## 2K6S2K (Nov 14, 2010)

I helped run the chrono at our clubs ASA event and made several people turn down their bow. I know, it sucks for them and i hate to have been tough about the rule, but rules are rules. A few months later, i was talking to some friends that shot at the qualifier, and they said they saw several people ranging targets with a rangefinder while they where shooting hunter class. They also saw people turning up their bows on the range. I cannot stand cheaters, and i hope Karma shows no mercy on them.


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## 1monstertriumph (Aug 17, 2010)

the pujols reference is a load of crap too...he's big and all and can hit a baseball along ways...but look at Alfonso Soriano...he is only around 170 pounds and is capable of hitting the ball just as far....size isn't a huge factor in baseball....hints the fact that there are an awful lot of small guys in the game...


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## Kc5 (Jan 3, 2011)

kennyelp said:


> Well here in Texas at all of the ASA events you are required to shoot through the chono before the start of the shoot, and the speed is written on your score card.If your speed is higher than it should be you are given a chance to lower the speed before you shoot, and I'm sure that is done at the Pro-Am that is at Paris,Tx every year which I I shot at only once 3 years ago.


Nobody in our group shot through a chrono, at the ProAm in Paris this year, but I wished they had.


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## Kc5 (Jan 3, 2011)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Boys, for one thing I only shoot traditional and yes I do shoot IBO. I was just telling you that I view archery as a true athletic event like hitting a golf ball for distance. I have not interest in light target gear and shooting bows that do not require any level of physical fitness. I'd rather throw darts in a pub than shoot a 35# recurve or 50# compound. Such activity bores the life out of me. If you like it, fine. I simply prefer a different approach that calls out for a much higher level of all around training. Both physical and mental.
> 
> As for small men in athletic events? That's life. Big strong men have the edge. I get the feeling our world has become a bastion of T-ball devotees where everyone gets to be a champion with no real effort put forth.
> 
> So I'll stay with IBO Longbow where a heavy bow is allowed and gives one a small edge in most cases.


The basic question of my original post was, How many people actually compete within the ASA rules for ASA 3D tournaments. I don't agree with your opinion about the biggest and strongest, having the advantage. I'm engaged in other athletic events where that is a benefit. At 230 lbs and being in pretty good shape, I have the ability to shoot an 80lb bow, but there is no need. My hunting setup shoots well beyond ASA speed limit at 330fps, but i don't shoot it in ASA competition. It's true that many people only have one bow and some shoot locally, just to hone their hunting skills. Maybe they need some open outlaw class if they want to "compete" at the local matches.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

1monstertriumph said:


> the pujols reference is a load of crap too...he's big and all and can hit a baseball along ways...but look at Alfonso Soriano...he is only around 170 pounds and is capable of hitting the ball just as far....size isn't a huge factor in baseball....hints the fact that there are an awful lot of small guys in the game...


Never get into an internet argument when we all have such easy access to the facts. You ready, Monster?

Soriano is listed at 6'1" and 195 pounds. Not a small man at all. In 13 Major League seasons he's hit 325 homeruns which works out to an average of 25 per season. This is good performance.

My boy Pujols is listed at 6'3" and 230 pounds. I've seen him in person and feel he's much heavier than this - probably closer to 250. Soriano is big, Pujols is very big. In only 11 Major League seasons he's hit 415 homeruns that works out to an average of 38 per season.

25 homeruns compared to 38. That's a fair gap. I think it kinda indicates size is paramount where hitting homeruns is concerned. Why do you think PEDs were so popular for so long? Get big and hit lots of homeruns. Chick's dig the longball. lol


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kc5 said:


> The basic question of my original post was, How many people actually compete within the ASA rules for ASA 3D tournaments. I don't agree with your opinion about the biggest and strongest, having the advantage. I'm engaged in other athletic events where that is a benefit. At 230 lbs and being in pretty good shape, I have the ability to shoot an 80lb bow, but there is no need. My hunting setup shoots well beyond ASA speed limit at 330fps, but i don't shoot it in ASA competition. It's true that many people only have one bow and some shoot locally, just to hone their hunting skills. Maybe they need some open outlaw class if they want to "compete" at the local matches.


I read earlier that you shoot a long bow.....well you are more then welcome to shoot the ASA tour with your longbow pulling 90lbs if you so deslire.... I know your not going to push the 288fps mark. So, this whole thing about speed has been a moot point for you, has it not????


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## Kc5 (Jan 3, 2011)

I think you quoted the wrong guy. I don't shoot a long bow.


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

Meatheads with the attitude that is being presented here do nothing to further the sport of archery. It's a softball guy mantality. You know who I'm talking about. The guy who has a bag full of doctored $500 bats that he brings to a co-ed tournament at a municipal park on a Saturday. He cusses out the girl playing 2nd base when she misses a grounder.

Archery is not baseball or football or hockey and never will be. The sport isn't about who is bigger/stronger etc. The sport (in my limited experience) is about being able to compete against a bunch of good people that share a common passion for archery. It's about spending time with close friends and family. It's about having the ability to judge yardage, excecute shots, hitting your target, self control (at least for me), knowing a course, knowing your targets and knowing your competition.

The second you turn the sport into home run derby, where every other guy (or gal) is hitting 400' bombs you loose what is great about the sport. 

If this makes sense to you, cool. If not, I don't care. Just have fun with it. You'll feel much better.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Kc5 said:


> I think you quoted the wrong guy. I don't shoot a long bow.


In all the excitment he forgot whether he fired 5 times or 6. He even lost his target. LOL (you have to love Dirty Harry)


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kc5 said:


> I think you quoted the wrong guy. I don't shoot a long bow.


It was for our little ft jeff


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## HunterRidge (Oct 7, 2008)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> You miss the point. If archer A is stronger than archer B and can handle heavier gear and thus shoot a faster arrow he should be allowed to use his superior physical gifts to use the faster bow. (heavier bow)
> 
> This is the same as Pujols in baseball being a large man capable of hitting a ball 480 feet. Smaller ball players of equal skill can only hit 400 feet because they lack Pujol's gift of superior strength. This is what athletics is about - see who the superior speciman is. Both in body and coordination.
> 
> ...


I have played basbeall and basketball my entire life and still do. I do not fail at any athletic event, I give my best and if someone is better then they get a day to feel superior. I dont care and sure nobody else does how much you lift and workout. The fact I was making is that due to my injuries which consist of bone rubbing bone when I move my arm, I still carry my weight at all that I do. You bring your 80 lb superman bow to London and ill bring my 47 lb bow and we will see who comes out on top. If you then kudos to you. Pujols may be able to hit a ball 480 feet but is still not the BEST. Joey Votto for the Reds won the last MVP and hes smaller. See my point.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

HunterRidge said:


> I have played basbeall and basketball my entire life and still do. I do not fail at any athletic event, I give my best and if someone is better then they get a day to feel superior. I dont care and sure nobody else does how much you lift and workout. The fact I was making is that due to my injuries which consist of bone rubbing bone when I move my arm, I still carry my weight at all that I do. You bring your 80 lb superman bow to London and ill bring my 47 lb bow and we will see who comes out on top. If you then kudos to you. Pujols may be able to hit a ball 480 feet but is still not the BEST. Joey Votto for the Reds won the last MVP and hes smaller. See my point.


Joey Votto? He stinks. If you want to highlight a little guy over achieving look at Red Sox player Dustin Pedroia. Now there's a shrimp who can swim with the big fish.

Is your 47 pound lady's bow a recurve or a compound? Because if it's a compound you are not even a true archer. You're a compound shooter - an entirely separate shooting discipline somewhat related to archery but not really.

Now if it is a recurve I'll destroy you at 3D.


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## badomen (Jan 7, 2010)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Joey Votto? He stinks. If you want to highlight a little guy over achieving look at Red Sox player Dustin Pedroia. Now there's a shrimp who can swim with the big fish.
> 
> Is your 47 pound lady's bow a recurve or a compound? Because if it's a compound you are not even a true archer. You're a compound shooter - an entirely separate shooting discipline somewhat related to archery but not really.
> 
> Now if it is a recurve I'll destroy you at 3D.



Do you feel like more of a man calling his 47lb bow a "lady's bow"? I mean if you really want to get to throwing dirt at people then i'll play, i'd say maybe you're just not intelligent enough to set up a compound bow? is that it? and you somehow try to over compensate your lack of intelligence by shooting a heavy pound long bow? 

Is that really what this forum is about? Sad really... some people need to grow up.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

badomen said:


> Do you feel like more of a man calling his 47lb bow a "lady's bow"? I mean if you really want to get to throwing dirt at people then i'll play, i'd say maybe you're just not intelligent enough to set up a compound bow? is that it? and you somehow try to over compensate your lack of intelligence by shooting a heavy pound long bow?
> 
> Is that really what this forum is about? Sad really... some people need to grow up.


You are correct about my not having the intelligence required to set up a compound. I can't afford a NASA-like squad of techy guys to help me with it either. But I am pretty strong. Strong and stump stupid. I go with what works for me. It's all about understanding your own limitations. You can't shoot a trad bow for lack of strength and determination and I can't shoot a compound 'cause I'm stone dumb. We understand each other.

Oh, 47 pounds is not a lady's bow. My wife shoots 52# of Howard Hill longbow at 25 inches. My youngest daughter shoots 48 pounds. So what our guy has is not a lady's bow, it's a little girl's bow. Just so we are straight.


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

There are just some people who do not get the spirit of the sport and feel that they have to run down others in an attempt to make theirselves look better, bigger or stronger. ( I suspect that none are accually the case, probably a case of "little big man complex") If you feel that you need to shoot an 80# trad bow to be a man, more power to ya. I as well as most others here could shoot the same. We just don't choose to, nor see the need for it. As for bashing people on here for shooting compound vs trad, there is no reason for that kind of crap here or anywhere else. Both are great forms of archery that deserve their own respect, which is something you should have for the sport but obviously do not.


"It is better to be silent and thought a fool, then open your mouth and confirm it!" ML2011


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

Actually the last line is "Then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

I was an English literature major even if I can't spell very well. lol

tagmaster10? I'm goofin' on these guys and you don't get it. Sorry you take yourself so seriously.


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## HunterRidge (Oct 7, 2008)

ladys bow hahahahahah...your humor is about as sad as your opening statement in this thread. It is a compound and I only shoot 47 lbs because I can and shoot all day long with no issues and still at ASA speed. I shoot 281 fps with my "ladys bow" and can drill your arrows through the targets if you can even hit them. A true archer is someone who loves the sport. A true archer dont even have to shoot 3d, just hunt or shoot around in the backyard. You can diss what I shoot all day long but the fact is I can shoot it and just as well or not better than most people around.


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

HunterRidge said:


> ladys bow hahahahahah...your humor is about as sad as your opening statement in this thread. It is a compound and I only shoot 47 lbs because I can and shoot all day long with no issues and still at ASA speed. I shoot 281 fps with my "ladys bow" and can drill your arrows through the targets if you can even hit them. A true archer is someone who loves the sport. A true archer dont even have to shoot 3d, just hunt or shoot around in the backyard. You can diss what I shoot all day long but the fact is I can shoot it and just as well or not better than most people around.


You mean most women around.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Joey Votto? He stinks. If you want to highlight a little guy over achieving look at Red Sox player Dustin Pedroia. Now there's a shrimp who can swim with the big fish.
> 
> Is your 47 pound lady's bow a recurve or a compound? Because if it's a compound you are not even a true archer. You're a compound shooter - an entirely separate shooting discipline somewhat related to archery but not really.
> 
> Now if it is a recurve I'll destroy you at 3D.





Ft. Jefferson said:


> You are correct about my not having the intelligence required to set up a compound. I can't afford a NASA-like squad of techy guys to help me with it either. But I am pretty strong. Strong and stump stupid. I go with what works for me. It's all about understanding your own limitations. You can't shoot a trad bow for lack of strength and determination and I can't shoot a compound 'cause I'm stone dumb. We understand each other.
> 
> Oh, 47 pounds is not a lady's bow. My wife shoots 52# of Howard Hill longbow at 25 inches. My youngest daughter shoots 48 pounds. So what our guy has is not a lady's bow, it's a little girl's bow. Just so we are straight.


WOW, what pompus statements to make.
Your comments show a real lack of maturity, (mines bigger than yours so mines better) Seriously!! Did you even read what you posted??? WOW, why insult the other archers, do you feel like a big guy now!!

I have found that the ones who look down their noses at other archers and their equipment either cannot shoot very well or are inadequate in another part of their life. 

I shoot both Compound and Recurve and I highly doubt you would be "Destroying" me at 3D with my girlie 35lb recurve.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

Here in So.Ca. As long as your 300 fps. or under your good to go. And the only different stakes are for cubs, and Trad. shooters. Everyone else shoots from the same stakes. And targets range anywhere from 10 feet to 80 yards. It's all good.
Don.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

zestycj7 said:


> Here in So.Ca. As long as your 300 fps. or under your good to go. And the only different stakes are for cubs, and Trad. shooters. Everyone else shoots from the same stakes. And targets range anywhere from 10 feet to 80 yards. It's all good.
> Don.


Oh Yea, that's right. The trad guys get to shoot from the Kiddie Stake........ how about that Ft. Jefferson!!


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## Ft. Jefferson (Apr 11, 2011)

XForce Girl said:


> WOW, what pompus statements to make.
> Your comments show a real lack of maturity, (mines bigger than yours so mines better) Seriously!! Did you even read what you posted??? WOW, why insult the other archers, do you feel like a big guy now!!
> 
> I have found that the ones who look down their noses at other archers and their equipment either cannot shoot very well or are inadequate in another part of their life.
> ...


Sweetheart? We're only playing. Please calm down, you're starting to get a little shrill.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Sweetheart? We're only playing. Please calm down, you're starting to get a little shrill.


Sorry, I can't tell you're "Playing" thought you were serious.


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## dpattarcher (Mar 7, 2009)

HunterRidge said:


> Just a known fact, the biggest and brightest are NOT always the best! What sport or athletic event have you seen besides bodybuilding or anything to do with weights where the biggest guy with the big muscles always win? Everybody would be a roid freak if that were the case. I have torn both my shoulders, only 5'8", 130 lbs (scrawny lil guy), I pull 47 lbs, 26" draw and will go up against anybody, any size, any sport. Michael Jordan was not the Hulk and done pretty well in his days. just my .02[/QUOTE
> 
> Any size any sport huh? Like professional basketball or football? At 135 lbs no super human would survive long enough to know where they were. Not making fun just saying you may have not thought this statement through.
> I. Don't knows if I agree with the speed limit or not at local shoots I do not. I am legally blind in one eye so should everyone else have to wear an eye patch? I think not. With todays technology even short draw low poundage guys can get around 300.


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## zestycj7 (Sep 24, 2010)

XForce Girl said:


> Oh Yea, that's right. The trad guys get to shoot from the Kiddie Stake........ how about that Ft. Jefferson!!


 Thats not what I was saying at all. The Trad. shooters get to shoot from a bit closer is all...Only the kiddies shoot from the kiddie stakes.
Don.


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## super* (Jan 26, 2008)

HAHAHA you think your a slow shooter im shooting a whole 250fps which is good enough for me


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## HunterRidge (Oct 7, 2008)

dpattarcher said:


> HunterRidge said:
> 
> 
> > Just a known fact, the biggest and brightest are NOT always the best! What sport or athletic event have you seen besides bodybuilding or anything to do with weights where the biggest guy with the big muscles always win? Everybody would be a roid freak if that were the case. I have torn both my shoulders, only 5'8", 130 lbs (scrawny lil guy), I pull 47 lbs, 26" draw and will go up against anybody, any size, any sport. Michael Jordan was not the Hulk and done pretty well in his days. just my .02[/QUOTE
> ...


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

Ft. Jefferson said:


> Sweetheart? We're only playing. Please calm down, you're starting to get a little shrill.


With a line like that, you have removed all doubt that you are more than likely a class A d-bag. "Sweethart" "shrill". Grow up caveman.


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