# Scent-Lok Guaranteed!



## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

There has been a lot of discussion on this and many other chat boards about the effectiveness and results of Scent-Lok and other activated carbon products. We have collected your concerns and presented them to our team for review. I personally want to thank you for all the opinions and feedback you have given us. 

One thing missing out of these discussions is any information regarding our product guarantee. *We have had in place a FIELD EFFECTIVE GUARANTEE that warrants performance, quality AND results.* Our guarantee is unmatched in the industry and no other technology has publicly stated ANY field guarantee regarding their product…except for Scent-Lok.

Our warranty goes above and beyond normal manufacturer’s quality assurances. *For several years we have guaranteed that deer and other scent sensitive big game animals will be downwind without busting you.* It’s that simple. It either works or it doesn’t; and if it doesn’t Scent-Lok Technologies will refund, replace or help you with your tactics to get animals downwind consistently. We are confident in our products, the science behind them and our own field testing that we feel we can offer you this FIELD EFFECTIVE GUARANTEE. There you have it…no risk and without Scent-Lok; you don’t know what you’re missing. 

There are some guidelines that you must follow to ensure success and certain steps and practices must be practiced. Please visit the link below for more information:

http://www.scentlok.com/articles/articles_detail.aspx?n=10

Or feel free to call our customer support line for more information at 800.315.5799. M-T 8:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M. EST and Fridays 8:00 A.M. to 2:00 P.M.

Or lastly PM me for any questions you might have.

Thanks again to for all your comments and thoughts. I will keep you informed if any new information becomes available. 

Nick


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## TexasAggie (Aug 5, 2006)

Can you please supply one or more references from the scientific literature that demonstrate thermal desorption from activated carbon fibers?

I've looked and can't find them.

If not, how do you expect us to take you seriously?

Respectfully, 


TA.


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## grouse (Dec 9, 2003)

Could you provide the scientific evidence of scent lures (particularly those of estrus does) and their effectiveness during the prerut and rut stages? Also looking for scientific evidence that grunting is an efective tool while hunting. In addition could you also provide scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mock scrapes. Also looking for scientific info on the effectivness of... 

Id like to meet all the bowhunters that demand scientific research before they use any product or strategy. They must have a serious library.


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## marforme (May 30, 2006)

I am very scent conscious and use Scent-loc outerwear and I have never been busted. I love these products.

You can pm me scentlocdesign and I will give you my address for sending my endorsment check to.:wink:


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## TexasAggie (Aug 5, 2006)

grouse said:


> Id like to meet the bowhunters that demand scientific research before they use any product or strategy. They must have a serious library.


Well, then I'd invite you to come over and read mine. It consists of about 50,000 pages of analytical chemistry literature.

:darkbeer:


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## speedcam (Feb 23, 2006)

ouch!!!!!!!!


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## bbarnett51 (Jun 15, 2002)

grouse said:


> Could you provide the scientific evidence of scent lures (particularly those of estrus does) and their effectiveness during the prerut and rut stages? Also looking for scientific evidence that grunting is an efective tool while hunting. In addition could you also provide scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mock scrapes. Also looking for scientific info on the effectivness of...
> 
> Id like to meet all the bowhunters that demand scientific research before they use any product or strategy. They must have a serious library.


It costs about $5 to make a scrape so it is a little easier to field test. Head to toe Scent Lok will be several hundred dollars. Plus the science that Scent Lok relies on is often disputed. It is not too much to ask of a company, to validate there product. BTW I have bought Scent Lok products before.

I have a Magic Stocking Cap that will bring in HUGE BUCKS. It is reserved for you and only cost $250! IT WORKS GREAT....promise.


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## grouse (Dec 9, 2003)

Id be happy to peruse your literature, with a chemistry minor the odds are i'm already familiar with much of it. The point I am trying to make is that hunters are very selelctive about what they demand scientific research from. You dont see posts 

"show me the science behind tinks"

"show me the science behind primos calls" I would venture to say that less than 10% of hunters have ever had a deer respond to blind calling. Yet its still used extinsively.

There are things that we use as hunters because our experience has shown us that they work.

BTW "field testing" is a lot different than scientific testing that so many are demanding.


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## Martial Archer (Jun 8, 2003)

bbarnett51 said:


> I have a Magic Stocking Cap that will bring in HUGE BUCKS. It is reserved for you and only cost $250! IT WORKS GREAT....promise.


You guarantee it will work or you'll give me a refund, provide customer support, offer to help me use it effectively AND put the aforementioned in writing, I may give it a try! :wink:


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Also several hundred dollars is a bit off. I just talked to customer service and the items you'd HAVE to buy from us is around $250. Not really the gigantic investment many people claim it to be. 

If you add up all the other items you will need over the course of three to four seasons, that isn't that bad.


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## muskrat (Jun 3, 2003)

If you don't believe in what someone is selling, don't buy it. I really don't understand why so many threads on this site turn this way.

Internet pokey-chest is so lame...


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## Moosekill (May 21, 2006)

Why don't you just post some of the scientific evidence that it works when you get it home, it works a couple of weeks later, and the carbon can be recharged at reasonable drier temperatures. 

If you can do this great!!!! Then at least some of us will shut up. If you can't we can probably figure out why.


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## arkansasbowman (Nov 24, 2004)

*We all know it works, But and I do mean But!*

It works great no doubt. That is proven via science. Proven that the carbon works great and soaks up orders like a sponge. There is were the problem lies. Carbon already filled by the time you buy the item. Cannot be recharged, other than what the average person would call extreme temp's something a consumer cannot purchase or even have done say at a professional cleaners. So does it work Yes, like a sponge as proven over and over again. Can it be recharged Yes. But where? Not sure who has a high enough temp dryer but they are not readily available and only a percentage of the garments gets recharged.

That is the main reason our armed forces and other profession's use throw away one time usage carbon suits.


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## deermaster (Feb 4, 2005)

i feel if you do think it will work, why buy it them complain that it dosn't work when you really have NO hunting skills. its easy to blame not being able to sit still on scent lok or scent blocker. " he winded me even through the 300 doller suit i bought''. no he did'nt, he saw you trying to light a ciggerette or trying to take a leak out of your stand. 
i use scent lok and believe in it. it works. if i do my part, the stuff will shine!


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Moosekill said:


> Why don't you just post some of the scientific evidence that it works when you get it home, it works a couple of weeks later, and the carbon can be recharged at reasonable drier temperatures.
> 
> If you can do this great!!!! Then at least some of us will shut up. If you can't we can probably figure out why.


I can tell you that I have tried, I have even devloped a website that is password protected showing the actual science and data. However due to a litigation we are in I cannot release it. The lawsuit doesn't have anything to do with this particular subject, it frustrates me to no end!!! :darkbeer: 

Believe me I am working toward releasing the unaltered version. My hands truy are just tied.


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## TexasAggie (Aug 5, 2006)

grouse said:


> Id be happy to peruse your literature, with a chemistry minor the odds are i'm already familiar with much of it.


I doubt that. :wink: With a minor in chemistry, you probably took two undergraduate general chemistry courses and two organic chemistry courses. You might have even had an introductory quantitative analysis course. What you did not take is advanced inorganic or advanced analytical chemistry, both of which, by the way, are the fields germane to the current discussion. 

I am the last person in the world that will argue that activated charcoal won't adsorb molecules. In fact, activated charcoal is SO GOOD at adsorbing molecules that you can't just throw it "in the dryer" and get them off. At least, I have not seen any reliable (e.g. peer reviewed, published studies) data that suggests you can. Do I expect ScentLok to have a capable analytical laboratory established to test their claims? Yes I do. I expect any company to have research that backs up their claims. Otherwise I could just crap in a can and sell it as rose petals.

I have done a cursory search of the analytical chemistry literature to look for evidence that you can desorb from activated charcoal in any form (granular, fiber, etc) at household dryer temperatures and have not seen ONE report in the literature. Granted this is a CURSORY examination of the literature, as I have my own job to do. That's why I asked ScentLok to show me the papers that demonstrate the proof of concept. Most companies can't wait to shove data down customers' throats that demonstrate how their product is superior. Surprisingly, ScentLok does not. They have plenty of slogans and marketing, but scarcely little data.

I don't have any ScentLok because my professional opinion (by the way, I have a Ph.D. in analytical chemistry) is that it can't be regenerated the way they say it can. If they convince me, I'll go buy a suit tomorrow!

The silence from ScentLok is deafening. A "guarantee" is not data. What a guarantee does is allow fence sitters the justification to go buy a suit. Human nature will in most cases then color their perception of reality -- they have a vested interest. It's just like rebates. The percentage of people in this world that get their rebate checks is low. Much lower than the percentage that bought that product precisely because it had a rebate.

It's brilliant marketing.

So, "Cliffs Notes" version of the above diatribe is this: I am waiting to be convinced, but not holding my breath. If ScentLok CAN convince me via verifiable data that their clothing can be regenerated, I will publically and happily rethink my stance and buy a full suit.

cheers. :darkbeer:


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## speedcam (Feb 23, 2006)

TexasAggie sounds smart......... she scares me.....:behindsof 


  

speed


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2006)

:moviecorn epsi:


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## bbarnett51 (Jun 15, 2002)

Scent Lok is obviously a stand up company and I appreciate that. When I question the science, I do not mean any disrespect. IN FACT, I fully expected that Scent Lok would provide adequate studies that back their products. 

Again I have owned a Scent Lok Savannah suit myself. It was stolen a week after I bought it so i only hunted in it two times. Not enough to form an opinion. I am certainly not trying to discredit Scent Lok.


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## jackdale1970 (Apr 29, 2006)

*scent-loc*

I am a fence sitter on this whole deal....I hear so much along the lines of what is being said here, that it makes it hard for me to shell out $250 or more for something that "might" help. That said, many of my hunting cohorts are firm beleivers in scent-loc, and often try to convince me. They say that they see more deer and bigger bucks since trying out the clothing and sticking to a scent control plan. My question then goes to this: Is it the clothing, or the fact that a) you are paying very close attention to scent control, and, b) you have become better hunters over the years.....I truely want to beleive, and would happily fork over the dough if someone could give me conclusive evidence that it truely works as described.


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## Team Hoyt PA (Oct 25, 2003)

grouse said:


> Could you provide the scientific evidence of scent lures (particularly those of estrus does) and their effectiveness during the prerut and rut stages? Also looking for scientific evidence that grunting is an efective tool while hunting. In addition could you also provide scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mock scrapes. Also looking for scientific info on the effectivness of...
> 
> Id like to meet all the bowhunters that demand scientific research before they use any product or strategy. They must have a serious library.


The Scientific evidence that people want to see stems from the controversy over this product. We've all read in places that it just isn't possible to rejuvinate the carbon with household driers. We've all seen that even military persons DO use the suits, but throw them away after one use. 
We've also seen the claims that it 100% does work or your money back.

Personally i think it's a sham. People can see results from using calls and scents. Just ask a trapper if scents work....they do or no animals could be trapped :wink: 
I have personally called deer in and i have personally made mock scrapes with my urine and had deer tear them apart a day or two afterward. I have SEEN those results. I don't have to prove that to anyone because in order to find these results, all you need is a couple dollars for a call and a day in the woods. Heck, the crappy grunt calls that buckmasters sends people every year would work 

However, there is too much controversy floating around scent lok and the claims. You want to change my mind then send me a suit and i'll try it.
My money won't be spent on it though. 
I'll stick to what i currently do until i see proof that it DOES indeed re-generate.


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## siucowboy (Aug 31, 2006)

ScentLok Design said:


> I can tell you that I have tried, I have even devloped a website that is password protected showing the actual science and data. However due to a litigation we are in I cannot release it. The lawsuit doesn't have anything to do with this particular subject, it frustrates me to no end!!! :darkbeer:
> 
> Believe me I am working toward releasing the unaltered version. My hands truy are just tied.



How convient...now why would a litigation that has nothing to do with this subject be limiting the publishing of data on the matter? You'll have to explain that one to me...granted that may be easy as my knowledge of the law is limited.

I make my living using statistics to analyze data though so please publish something worth looking at and not some pretty graphs without actual supporting data (like on the scent lok website)...

In fact I'll be happy to perform any statistical hypothesis testing needed on any data that you have in order to ensure the results are statisically valid...


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## ryan76chev (Jan 12, 2006)

:darkbeer: :fencing: :moviecorn


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## carteranderson (Jul 31, 2006)

*Consider this:*

I agree that one can question regeneration of charcoal. What one needs is cheap disposable charcoal lined suits...I've been using BDU chemical suits for years, and have never been "busted" with one exception, and that very well could have been due to my boots, halitosis, the lipstick stuck in my whisker biscuit (I was trying to tune my bow to Turbo Nocks...) or any other odiferous misgiving. Heck, I probably had too many beans...
Regardless, the BDUs are cheap to the point of disposable. 2 years ago I bought 4 sets for $10 plus $20 for shipping (they are darned heavy). I recently bought a thinsulate coat with some form of silver impregnated lining for scent control. I didn't buy it for scent, I bought it because it was a pretty cool Mothwing camo coat that would be warm, and it was only $35.00 off of ebay. Otherwise, my closet is full of BDU's. I just hope to avoid too many people picking them up and driving up the price.
Just my humble opinion. 
BTW, I have also have a chemisty minor, and I have NO idea what the research is on this stuff. 
Carter Anderson


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## fasst (Oct 1, 2004)

ScentLok Design said:


> Believe me I am working toward releasing the unaltered version. My hands truy are just tied.


Ok guys, we know some of you may not believe in the product, and others swear by it and would not go in the woods without it....kind of like the fixed blades and mechanical debate huh? :wink: 
Anyways, I am sure as soon as they can release more information on the product line, they will.....


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Thanks*

I have a suit that I bought from one of the first years ever released.

It works and I have tested many times hinting the bottomes in swirlling wind.

Many in my area swear by it. I have several garmits now.

Thanks and some of us do get it.:wink:

I have sold several suits for my pro shop by placing an onion in my hood and having folks smell in the hood. I dont need a scientist.


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

*I don't buy it.*



fasst said:


> Ok guys, we know some of you may not believe in the product, and others swear by it and would not go in the woods without it....kind of like the fixed blades and mechanical debate huh? :wink:
> Anyways, I am sure as soon as they can release more information on the product line, they will.....


Scent lok has been around for YEARS with out providing the information most are asking for.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Question*

Don't you guys find it funny that Grown Men (Mostly) like us have been convinced by advertising we could throw on a Scent Free suit...and all of our smells would be sucked away? Eye Holes...Ear Holes...Face Holes....Pant Legs...Sleeves.....Collars....all are exhaust pipes for odors....If you put a charcoal suit on you are going to produce more sweat...gases....this is compounding the problem....some would tell you a light camo outfit with no scent control might actually give off less smell than the scent lok? Question: If the garmet becomes full of particles (Probably before you bought it) aren't you now actually carrying more unnatural odors into the woods????

Just my 2 pennies!


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## Vajra (Feb 25, 2006)

I was in a store a few weeks ago that had a scent-lok rep working the floor. During my conversation with him he mentioned that scent-lok no longer recommends using high heat in the drier as it warps the laminates. According to him they now recommend low to med heat. I mentioned this seemed odd due to the extreme temperatures required to "refresh". At this point he politely cut me off and said, nothing works 100%.

There is plenty of actual scientific data available stating scent-lok products can not refresh themselves in the manor recommended by the manufacture. With all this negative data floating around the internet I find it hard to believe Scent-Lok would just sit back and do nothing about it if they actually had the data to counter it. Bad press equals a loss in sales, that equals a loss of revenue. IMHO No company sits back and takes this kind of beating without fighting back… unless that is you have nothing to fight back with.

I own two scent-lok shirts. I didn’t buy them for their scent control. I bought them because they fit me well, seemed well made and with the sale they were the same price at the other brands. Had they not been on sale I would not have spent the extra money for them.

On a side note the rep was very nice and helped me pick out some non Scent-lok items as well.


Tim


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## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

Sales must be way down ......


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## macatac (Jul 16, 2006)

OK, I am not saying that the stuff does not work, but there are more holes in that "guarantee" than than a block of swiss cheese. It really does nothing more than look good on paper. I mean, at best, you would get "coached" on how you did things wrong. Sounds like a lot of fun times on the phone to me.

Just my $0.02

macatac


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

TexasAggie said:


> Well, then I'd invite you to come over and read mine. It consists of about 50,000 pages of analytical chemistry literature.
> 
> :darkbeer:



Oh come on You're an Aggie it's not like you learned real chemistry. I'm married to an X-Tech Texan (shhhhh she worked at Harvard Medical School too!). We know Aggies think chemistry is the result of mixing Tequila with limes and dirty dancing. 

You want to come see my library? I've got a couple hundred books on computer science topics in my OFFICE! 


Go BOILERMAKERS!


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Maybe this turned into too much of a debate. All we are saying is if you buy it and it doesn't work, return it...risk free. Of course we have to have stipulations, heck I've seen people at the gas station after hunts pumping 87 with it. Should we stand behind that? 

What we want to do is protect the serious hunter who does the right things in terms of scent-control. We want to promote a system that we knows works. We know that you HAVE to have a headcover, a top, pants, and gloves to be scent free. We also know that feet produce a ton of odor (just ask my wife ukey: ) and they need to be protected. We also know that there needs to be some attention paid to you equipment. If you bring your bow into Subway (I don't know why you would) it would smell like Subway. Lastly, would you guarantee something like our products that was stored in a smoke filled truck? No you wouldn't. It is a sysyem a regime and if you follow our steps, we will stand behind it 100%

Lastly, it isn't that big of investment. $250 gets you in the door and over the course of three years that's $83. I don't know about you but for a week long food and beverage bill at camp it is about that much.


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## SeanH. (Nov 22, 2003)

I have only used the base layers and that is because they were a gift. IMHO they are way to expensive to have so much controversy around scent free clothing, However if you want to donate some for field testing let me know. I will be happy to let you know how it works...


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## DaddyPaul (Oct 24, 2003)

First off the following is far from "science"!  I currently have two suits, one is a Savannah coverall and the other is a Dakota Micro Suede or something two piece job. Both are really nice just as far as camo goes. Did I buy them? Nope. I did some turkey hunting/guiding a few years back with Aubrey and Phil for their show and got them as "payment" for services rendered I guess? I wear them fairly reliably (temperature permitting down here) and don't think I have ever been busted by a deer that I can think of? Do I pay attention to the wind? Yep. Do I wear my suit to the High School football game on Friday night? Nope. Do I wear it in the convenience store on the way to the woods to get a honey bun? Nope. It is nothing short of another piece in the puzzle that will make you a better hunter IMO, remember this ain't science!:wink: Nothing will fool a mature whitetail's nose 100% of the time, my opinion again! The suits make me feel a little more "undetectable" when I wear them and I think that also gives me a little mental edge while I am hunting. I am the ONLY person in my 10 member lease in south Georgia who owns/wears Scent Lok suits in the woods. We only took two bucks off of 1000 acres of decently managed property last year. Guess who took both of them? Me. Guess who took the biggest buck the last two years on this place? Me again. Does that mean that the suits work? Am I just a better hunter than the rest of my group? Am I a lukcy son of a gun? I don't know but I will continue to wear them when I hunt. I don't know if I would have bought one or not if it had not been for the circumstances that got me mine but I sure am glad I have them! I say if you are looking for another edge in the woods give them a try. If you are looking for something to magically transform you into some type of fire breathing, top shelf, ultra predatorial animal slayer.............................well shoot me a PM when you find it! I say it is high time to shut down the PC's for awhile and rain down some death from above. Heck bow season starts tomorrow down here! :ninja: :darkbeer:


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Bottomline*

Nothing completely works. Does this help some. YES

My good friend and hunting buddy said he and his brother had good success in Colorado this year while using it. Diffiantly said they had more bulls downwind than ever before. They have been hunting many years.

Who can really say what a deer noise smells evertime.


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## DaddyPaul (Oct 24, 2003)

Precisely my point Daniel! If a deer only smells "half" of me or at least some type of "dilluted" scent signature it might just buy me those precious few seconds I need to harvest him? I am "convinced" they help me. :darkbeer:


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Maybe this turned into too much of a debate. All we are saying is if you buy it and it doesn't work, return it...risk free. Of course we have to have stipulations, heck I've seen people at the gas station after hunts pumping 87 with it. Should we stand behind that?
> 
> What we want to do is protect the serious hunter who does the right things in terms of scent-control. We want to promote a system that we knows works. We know that you HAVE to have a headcover, a top, pants, and gloves to be scent free. We also know that feet produce a ton of odor (just ask my wife ukey: ) and they need to be protected. We also know that there needs to be some attention paid to you equipment. If you bring your bow into Subway (I don't know why you would) it would smell like Subway. Lastly, would you guarantee something like our products that was stored in a smoke filled truck? No you wouldn't. It is a sysyem a regime and if you follow our steps, we will stand behind it 100%
> 
> Lastly, it isn't that big of investment. $250 gets you in the door and over the course of three years that's $83. I don't know about you but for a week long food and beverage bill at camp it is about that much.



How's come you don't sell it in a scent proof contairer? The shops it sells at could be smoked .... you gonna stand behind that Product too? They are shipped in boxes that stink, the peopel that load the product stink, the warehouse they are stored in stinks. What the differnce between your product or carbon based sprays? Three squirts and my cotton clothes are re-energized.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Marvin said:


> How's come you don't sell it in a scent proof contairer? The shops it sells at could be smoked .... you gonna stand behind that Product too? They are shipped in boxes that stink, the peopel that load the product stink, the warehouse they are stored in stinks. What the differnce between your product or carbon based sprays? Three squirts and my cotton clothes are re-energized.



I bet if Scent Loc or ScentBlocker gave you a suit for FREE you'd be as proud as punch to wear it, wouldn't you? I mean a Free suit, I think your attitude might change some.

Face it, the prices scares people off, then again most that complain about it and doubt it will spend countless dollars on a bow but spend very little on clothes. Clothes are a big part of the hunting equation.

You can doubt it all you want, I'll be wearing my ScentBlocker suit this fall!


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Great questions! 



Marvin said:


> How's come you don't sell it in a scent proof contairer? The shops it sells at could be smoked .... you gonna stand behind that Product too?


Yes we are going to stand behind our product and our technology 100%. Use it correctly and we will stand behind it. Simple as that. 



Marvin said:


> They are shipped in boxes that stink, the people that load the product stink, the warehouse they are stored in stinks.


All of that doesn't matter because we believe in our products, the technology and our techniques. All the odors (or at least a vast majority of them) are released when you regenerate them in the dryer. That is our stance, that is what we believe and that is what we stand behind with the above guarantee. 



Marvin said:


> What the differnce between your product or carbon based sprays? Three squirts and my cotton clothes are re-energized.


A couple of things. First, the amount of carbon in our suits compared to "Carbon Blast" or the like. Our and Robinson Labs suits contain much more carbon then a spray. That increased amount of carbon lasts longer and gives the hunter much better coverage the the sprays. Secondly, our carbon is a more porous (and has the ability to adsorb more odor) due the larger pore structure. We use a Coconut carbon which through studies has yeilded the largest pore structure available. Lastly, we don't turn clothes black, we maintain camo patterns. White Lightning from Robinson Labs doesn't effect the coloring of garments from what I understand.

Don't take this as us knocking sprays. I use our scent-eliminating spray on my bows, release, boots and hands. I could just as well use Robinson labs as well. I spray my wrists and boot bottoms before walking to my stand. Sprays have a place in the system, but no one part replaces the whole system. 

On the subject of sprays, many sprays kill bacteria, which is one element of scent. But there are other factors that cause odor on the human body inlcuding but not limited to your diet, you genetics and if you are a women what time of the month it may be. If you are going to use a spray, use an odor neutralizer or carbon based product like Carbon Blast or White Lightning. I have heard great things about the White Lightning! You can find it here:
http://http://www.robinsonoutdoors.com/osc/product_info.php?products_id=29&osCsid=bc7a1b3ddb9b227620d72ab9402ab417&cPath=22_50

Thanks for the questions.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> I bet if Scent Loc or ScentBlocker gave you a suit for FREE you'd be as proud as punch to wear it, wouldn't you? I mean a Free suit, I think your attitude might change some.
> 
> Face it, the prices scares people off, then again most that complain about it and doubt it will spend countless dollars on a bow but spend very little on clothes. Clothes are a big part of the hunting equation.
> 
> You can doubt it all you want, I'll be wearing my ScentBlocker suit this fall!


What does your post have to do with me not wearing it? I buy grey wolf clothing( NO SCENTLOK) , money is obviously not a problem. I'd drive a free car, even if it was junk. Its not abotu what I would do, its about not proving your product works. Its that simple.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Great questions!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can see it now, a scent blocker tampon. :tongue:  somebody call the drury's. We have a new dream season product along with the buck growl...


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Great questions!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do you physically change the reactivation temperature of carbon then? Could you reactivae your product with say a Hair dryer? You have to drive away the molecules some how. at that low temp you would need to alter the structure of the carbon. We've split an atom but I have not heard of such a thing happening.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Marvin said:


> What does your post have to do with me not wearing it? I buy grey wolf clothing( NO SCENTLOK) , money is obviously not a problem. I'd drive a free car, even if it was junk. Its not abotu what I would do, its about not proving your product works. Its that simple.



It just seems you are trying to bash a product and its abilities especially when the product has been on the market for several years now and has many loyal followers. Look at all the pros that wear it, some very smart individuals who have the trophies on the wall to prove their abilities. Do you think they would wear something that didn't work or would your point be they were given the product free? 

Like Jackie Bushman says in the Nikon commercial, "when hunting whitetails, you better stack the odds in your favor" Well Scent Loc or ScentBlocker do this. Who cares what the science of it is and a household dryer not being able to get hot enough to reactivate it. If guys are having success with it and they think its working, then something is helping. 

Just seems when you get a representative on here and they try to address issues its an attack on them. That is the trouble on here at times, too much bashing and not enough thank you's for helping hunters become better hunters!


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> It just seems you are trying to bash a product and its abilities especially when the product has been on the market for several years now and has many loyal followers. Look at all the pros that wear it, some very smart individuals who have the trophies on the wall to prove their abilities. Do you think they would wear something that didn't work or would your point be they were given the product free?
> 
> Like Jackie Bushman says in the Nikon commercial, "when hunting whitetails, you better stack the odds in your favor" Well Scent Loc or ScentBlocker do this. Who cares what the science of it is and a household dryer not being able to get hot enough to reactivate it. If guys are having success with it and they think its working, then something is helping.
> 
> Just seems when you get a representative on here and they try to address issues its an attack on them. That is the trouble on here at times, too much bashing and not enough thank you's for helping hunters become better hunters!



PPLLLLEEAAASSSEEE. The pro's wear it so it works? I am not a marketing pigeon. Remeber what you just said, if they'd give it too you, you'd wear it. guess what? you REALLY think the pro's paid for those suits? Guess what? I wear Cotton and wool...deer get down wind and don't smell me!! What kind of genie must I be? ( okay maybe not a genie but maybe a wizard) If they PROVE without a doubt that it works, I'd buy some. they haven't so I won't waste my money on it. If you want to be steam rolled then fine by me. They just keep telling me it works. Thats all we ever HEAR.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Marvin, you win, you seem like a very hard person to please, best of luck to you this fall!


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## Bow_Rep (Sep 14, 2006)

I have something that works 100% of the time...and it costs absolutely nothing. 

It's called "playing the wind". Been doing it 40+ years and it's never failed me yet :cocktail:


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

By the way, I do want to thank everybody who has been posting with their thoughts. I am not trying to change the world with the Guarantee and also I know everybody has their own tactics they use. I respect that. Some of us like Fords, some like Chevy but nobody likes Dodges....JUST KIDDING.

In addition thanks for not personally attacking anybody. I was just on another site and it's turning into hunters knocking other hunters. That's sad IMHO. I don't mind you saying Scent-Lok sucks and whatnot, but don't say we, or anyone elso on this board, is ruining a sport. We all in this together and part of a larger team in the grand scheme of things.

Nick


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## fasst (Oct 1, 2004)

Good post Nick. I like when folks express their opinions. It aggrevates me to no end when we attack each other. There are few enough hunters as it is, we sure don't need to turn folks away or give ammunition to the opposing team.


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## hooks (Mar 22, 2005)

*ScentLoc Design*

Nick,

Could you describe to us the prosess used in manufacturing the material for your clothing? Is it laminated or impregnated or what? Could you tell us who manufactures the material? Is carbon cloth used? 

Don


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

hooks said:


> Nick,
> 
> Could you describe to us the prosess used in manufacturing the material for your clothing? Is it laminated or impregnated or what? Could you tell us who manufactures the material? Is carbon cloth used?
> 
> Don


It is a laminating process. There are several manufacturers around the world who do lamination processes, ours is proprietary information due to our patents. 

An actual carbon cloth is VERY hard to make as carbon (activated or otherwise) is brittle and has zero stretch capabilities. Some yarns have successfully been made, but it's uses are very limited due to the above factors. 

Nick


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## Jdub (Aug 25, 2004)

ScentLok Design said:


> All the odors (or at least a vast majority of them) are released when you regenerate them in the dryer. That is our stance, that is what we *believe* and that is what we stand behind with the above guarantee.


Can this be supported with actual data? I'm no chemist by any means, but going through information posted here and other sites the consensus is that for carbon to be re-activated (ie. carbon reached saturation of odors, odors then removed, carbon once again can absorb odors) it must be heated to something like 800º (I may be off but it was somewhere in that ballpark). Are you saying this is false, ScentLok has found away around this, or the 800º is correct but some odors are removed at lower temps?

That's one of my biggest concerns, is that it can NOT be re-activated with a household dryer. If you could show data that supports it can in fact be re-activated I think a lot of people would start putting out the money.

If it indeed can be re-activated, my next question would be for how long? How much human odor can it absorb? I know this would be dependent on the amount of odor being put off, but lets say an average. An hour, a day, week, before going to the dryer?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Just wasted more money*

Im 100% convinced it works.

Dont need no scientist.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> Im 100% convinced it works.
> 
> Dont need no scientist.


 Holy cow DB!! Dan, if we ties those down and put a pole in the middle we could make a spike camp brother..... :wink: 


Just havin fun. Fat kids rule ( yes I am one )


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## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

ScentLok Design said:


> That is our stance, that is what we *believe* and that is what we stand behind with the above guarantee.


When I was a kid, I *believed* in the Tooth Fairy (among other figures as well). That did not mean I was right.

I'm sorry but as a professional engineer with an extensive background in carbon adsorption, reactivation, and regeneration, I refuse to believe any of the carbon suit industry claims. Post up the supposed data and prove it works.

By the way, I spent almost $1,000 on camo clothing last year ($800+ straight to Drake Waterfowl products) and not one ounce of it contained carbon. So don't tell me that money is what is keeping me from buying these products.

Post up the data and prove it works. Not some b.s. marketing graphs, but real chemical and engineering data. Let outside professionals experienced in these areas review it. Do it and prove it and I'll be the first one to publicly acknowledge that you folks somehow completely changed the laws of chemistry and physics. On top of that, I'll buy a complete suit and put my money were my mouth is.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

DEC said:


> When I was a kid, I *believed* in the Tooth Fairy (among other figures as well). That did not mean I was right.
> 
> I'm sorry but as a professional engineer with an extensive background in carbon adsorption, reactivation, and regeneration, I refuse to believe any of the carbon suit industry claims. Post up the supposed data and prove it works.
> 
> ...



I'll go One further, I 'll buy a suit and put it up for charity auction. Catch a dream some charity like that. Its up to you Scentlocker


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## DaddyPaul (Oct 24, 2003)

So now I guess you are saying the tooth fairy ain't real? I really don't see what the big deal is fellas? If you think it is horse puckey then spend your money elsewhere, which you obviously do. I just don't see the reason to continually attack the company by demanding proof? If you are trying to save us poor souls who are being suckered into buying it, don't bother, I really like both of my suits and think they really help my total scent control package.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Yep*

Nick,

I personally don't think Scent Lok or Scent Blocker actually do much...But...you are good for the hunting industry! You seem like a very fair minded guy (Even Recommending Your Major Competitor...Scott Shultz and Robinson Labs) anyway....If we give people choices on Camo...Carbon...Bows...Broadheads etc.... Let's let them choose....I truly think what makes this topic so Heartfelt, is a lot of people who bought these suits feel tricked/lied to! I have been at the Shows....This stuff is the greatest product on earth....yadda...yadda...

If you are saying anyone who has a Scent Lok suit and followed the rules they can return it, I'm afriad your company could not whether that storm??? Imagine if just 10% of the people returned their suits this month...then in October the Magazines/Newspapers write stories about it...Next Month...
25 % more...than everyone else says...wholly crap...I'm getting rid of mine!!!! Well, you get the picture....all of a sudden people in your plants are getting Pink Slips etc....

Maybe if your CEO/Marketing Director went out in print saying that it is a tool and only that...no more important then wind direction...odor control...grooming....etc... and maybe in the past that your company may have overstated it's abilities as well as the regeneration process, maybe more people would commend you???

2 cents from another Michigan Guy...Transplanted in Ohio!!!


GO BLUE!!!


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Thanks guys for the responses. I am not going to debate the abiltiy of our products to be reactivated here as that is not the point of the thread. What we are saying is if you should decide to purchase our products and get busted we will take care of you up to refunding your money. That's it. 

I appreciate the questions about our testing and our ability to show the raw data. However we aren't going to and then many will just speculate on why. I am bound by things out of my control as to why, but I assure you that I have been making daily efforts to release it. Take it or leave it that is what I am going to offer. 

As for this guarantee, we are that confident that deer and other game will not bust you. We are putting our products on the line. We have had this in place for three years now and we have received very very few calls regarding this. The ones that we cannot solve, we have exchanged the customers suit or suits and tested thos and found some defects that have improved our products. 

To bring this back full circle; if we tested our products and we knew they didn't work would we stick our neck and money out like this? No that would make no business sense. We are that confident that very very few customers will have issues with their systems when used properly. Because we know it works. Not just believe, we know. 

Another thing, I can save you the trouble of trying to read into every word I write. I'm trying to be clear and straghtforward. No need to look at "Believe" vs. "know." I'm just a normal guy sittin on my couch, havin a brew and answering questions. It is afterall after five!!! Cheers! :darkbeer:


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## Antihunter (May 5, 2005)

*???*

This is great TexasAggies states simple comments that could be answered, and then every relpy from Scent Loc Design mentions nothing to refute TexasAggies comments. Seems pretty odd to me.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Last Comment*

I guess this is why everybody is getting mad....it seems it would be easy to say we can or can't recharge the suits??? If we can't...then the whole idea is useless? Also...the guarantee is starting to read like Law School...first you say money back, then you say only a few suits were tested not to work? What test? So if someone buys one...gets winded by a Deer and returns it...what is the test? Do they automatically get the money back????

Alright...I'll get off your back, but, when I get answers like that, it makes me much less tempted to buy more Scent Lok!


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## boojo35 (Jul 16, 2005)

I want to know how you can buy headgear, footwear, a full suit and proper storage containers for $250 as you are told. I also believe that it cannot be reactivated. There is simply too much scientific proof that it cannot be reactivated by a dryer versus your side which provides no scientific proof that it can. Now if you will excuse me, I need to go reactivate my normal hunting clothes. Anyone ever hear of baking soda?


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## MikeH (Aug 12, 2006)

Antihunter said:


> This is great TexasAggies states simple comments that could be answered, and then every relpy from Scent Loc Design mentions nothing to refute TexasAggies comments. Seems pretty odd to me.


Sounds like someone should have been a politician! Senator Scent-Lok!  

I know how it is when you can't divulge proprietary info, so I don't blame him for answering if that's the case, but a company really sets themselves up when they can't back up things with statistics. Even placebos work many times. How about comparing it to diet pills. If you follow the directions and eat and exercise, you may lose weight. How much did the pills play a role? Like others have said, if you become more concious in your efforts to remove scent, you're one step ahead than what you were before.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Maybe he can tell me and my friends*



Antihunter said:


> This is great TexasAggies states simple comments that could be answered, and then every relpy from Scent Loc Design mentions nothing to refute TexasAggies comments. Seems pretty odd to me.


That the product doesnt work when we can smell right into the hood with an onion in it and not smell the onion. Stuff works, my nose can smell. Why on earth do we need a scientist to prove it when we can smell for are selves. I have reactivatied my hood many times and have done this many times in the pro shop. Everyone agrees it does absorb the smell. Its just not that hard to understand for me.
DB


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## Allen7791 (Jul 18, 2006)

AdvanTimberLou said:


> I bet if Scent Loc or ScentBlocker gave you a suit for FREE you'd be as proud as punch to wear it, wouldn't you? I mean a Free suit, I think your attitude might change some.
> 
> Face it, the prices scares people off, then again most that complain about it and doubt it will spend countless dollars on a bow but spend very little on clothes. Clothes are a big part of the hunting equation.
> 
> You can doubt it all you want, I'll be wearing my ScentBlocker suit this fall!


People do this everytime. This is about sent-LOCK. ScentBLOCKER is a different company! Same Idea Different Company.


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## AT_X_HUNTER (Aug 10, 2005)

ScentLoc, I've been using your products for better than 6 years now. I have had nothing but positive results in all weather and wind conditions. I do appreciate the way you are backing up your product. I will continue to purchase your products into the future.

Additionally, please do not be discouraged or put-off by the sceptics. Everyone has their opinions and beleifs, wether or not they are based on experience or theory. My opinions are based on real life experience with your products. I gave them a real chance and I was and still am impressed. I wonder how many people who have actually used your products are arguing that it doesn't work verses those who have never used the product. Kinda like saying you don't like the taste of venisen without ever trying it. Just my opinion.

Best wishes and good luck.


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## SeanH. (Nov 22, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> That the product doesnt work when we can smell right into the hood with an onion in it and not smell the onion. Stuff works, my nose can smell. Why on earth do we need a scientist to prove it when we can smell for are selves. I have reactivatied my hood many times and have done this many times in the pro shop. Everyone agrees it does absorb the smell. Its just not that hard to understand for me.
> DB


WHAT??? I can put an onion inside my baselayers, my wool on top of that and my walmart camo pants which is what i usually wear when it gets chilly and i can't smell no onion. That don't prove that they work. 
If Scent Lok is that confident pick out a handful of people give them a full dress suit if they go undetected by the end of the year they buy it from you if not you get it back that sounds like confidence:thumbs_up .
I personally spray all my clothes with scent free spray (does the spray work? maybe maybe not) but i have not been busted yet, then all my clothes are vaccum packed and stored.

Nick this is nothing personal towards you or your company.

I also think that all camo clothing is way overpriced not just the scent free lines that just happens to be what we are talking about right now. I know i am not the only one but I have personally seen hunters on tv get busted by deer while wearing scent free clothes and no scent free head gear seems that if you want to be scent free don't put the hat on your head that you were wearing the night before when you cooked deer steak and onions....
Ok I am done:zip:


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

The reason I am not commenting on the more science aspects of our products is because that road has been traveled enough and it will get us nowhere. In summary here is how it would go. 

Me: Our products can be regenerated in a household dryer
Someone else: No they can't. I'm an expert in activated carbon and they can't.
Me: We have teams of scientists around the world who say different.
Someone else:Show me the lab tests.
Me: No I cannot do that right now
Third party in conversation: I've had Scent-Lok for years and it works
Fourth party: Scent-Lok is crap
Me: Let's keep it cool guys
Moderator: Yeah let's keep it cool
Someone else: I worked in the dry cleaning industry and Nick you suck
Me: No I don't
Someone else: Look at these articles (LINK)
Me: Look at my testimonials from the guy who wrote the article. He is in it for the money.
Someone else: You suck
.....and on and on and on.

I've seen it a hundred times. This thread is about our *guarantee*. Again, buy our stuff, use it correctly and we won't leave you hanging.

Nick


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> The reason I am not commenting on the more science aspects of our products is because that road has been traveled enough and it will get us nowhere. In summary here is how it would go.
> 
> Me: Our products can be regenerated in a household dryer
> Someone else: No they can't. I'm an expert in activated carbon and they can't.
> ...



First time down that road. Enlighten us. Its either right or wrong in science. thats what's cool about it. It does not have gray areas like law's( and guarantee's).


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## Selil (Sep 5, 2005)

Marvin said:


> First time down that road. Enlighten us. Its either right or wrong in science. thats what's cool about it. It does not have gray areas like law's( and guarantee's).



That's not quite true. I r' a scientist. Science is contantly evolving and often going down the wrong path and getting yanked back and forth. Science often is corrupted by politics, and the abuse of society. Then there is the process itself. You could definitely say that science is about making a series of mistakes on purspose "http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/scimeth.htm". 

A good book that covers the topic? Bill Bryson "A Short History of Nearly Everything"


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

Selil said:


> That's not quite true. I r' a scientist. Science is contantly evolving and often going down the wrong path and getting yanked back and forth. Science often is corrupted by politics, and the abuse of society. Then there is the process itself. You could definitely say that science is about making a series of mistakes on purspose "http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/scimeth.htm".
> 
> A good book that covers the topic? Bill Bryson "A Short History of Nearly Everything"


I am not sure that I see a political influence in the absorption rate and regeneration of coconut based carbon molecules...unless it has to do with the hole in the ozone or global warming. If they built a better mouse trap, their patent should protect them. Preying on the ignorance of society is pretty low.


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## TexasAggie (Aug 5, 2006)

I clearly understand the need for industries to protect their intellectual property. However data showing that the PRODUCT WORKS AS ADVERTIZED would in no way jeopardize their intellectual property, nor would it have any relevence to a lawsuit, unless they are being sued becuase their product doesn't work and they have data that proves it.

All I was asking was if they had references in the literature from independent parties that demonstrated the proof of concept of carbon regeneration at household temperatures. They obviously don't have any.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

TexasAggie said:


> I clearly understand the need for industries to protect their intellectual property. However data showing that the PRODUCT WORKS AS ADVERTIZED would in no way jeopardize their intellectual property, nor would it have any relevence to a lawsuit, unless they are being sued becuase their product doesn't work and they have data that proves it.


I'm sorry, I just cannot. No to knock them, but lawyers can seem to wrangle up anything they want into lawsuits. I am familiar with the lawsuit and all the parties involved have to abide by certain rules. Respectfully you are making a blind connection that is plainly isn't there. I appreciate your challenges but this is a little removed from your expertise. 



TexasAggie said:


> All I was asking was if they had references in the literature from independent parties that demonstrated the proof of concept of carbon regeneration at household temperatures. They obviously don't have any.


Again, this thread isn't about us proving this technology works, we know it and we are going to stand behind those statements. Nobody has proven us wrong, our patents have held up several times and our fabric continues to outperform any other technology that claims scent-control. Hands down.

The purpose of me taking the time to answer questions and comments is to show our confidence in our statements, science aside. I want to get across to current customers and potential customers that they have us on their side. If there is a problem, we will take care of it in anyway we can.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> I'm sorry, I just cannot. No to knock them, but lawyers can seem to wrangle up anything they want into lawsuits. I am familiar with the lawsuit and all the parties involved have to abide by certain rules. Respectfully you are making a blind connection that is plainly isn't there. I appreciate your challenges but this is a little removed from your expertise.
> 
> 
> Again, this thread isn't about us proving this technology works, we know it and we are going to stand behind those statements. Nobody has proven us wrong, our patents have held up several times and our fabric continues to outperform any other technology that claims scent-control. Hands down.
> ...



Legal question for you, say i go buy a suit, say it doesn't work, you will refund my money no questions asked? I would imagine that you would warranty this product as long as i own it correct?


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Jdub said:


> Can this be supported with actual data? I'm no chemist by any means, but going through information posted here and other sites the consensus is that for carbon to be re-activated (ie. carbon reached saturation of odors, odors then removed, carbon once again can absorb odors) it must be heated to something like 800º (I may be off but it was somewhere in that ballpark). Are you saying this is false, ScentLok has found away around this, or the 800º is correct but some odors are removed at lower temps?
> 
> That's one of my biggest concerns, is that it can NOT be re-activated with a household dryer. If you could show data that supports it can in fact be re-activated I think a lot of people would start putting out the money.
> 
> If it indeed can be re-activated, my next question would be for how long? How much human odor can it absorb? I know this would be dependent on the amount of odor being put off, but lets say an average. An hour, a day, week, before going to the dryer?


Some of this confusion is due to the wording REACTIVATED and REGENERATED. Even though many in the chemical industry use them interchangeably they are indeed different things.

One of our experts put it this way. There is a vast difference between the two. Reactivation (which is what many of you are referring to) is to send activated carbon back through the "activation process" removing ALL contaminant molecules. This requires the temperatures and systems many have referred to. 

Regeneration is a way of removing the adsorbed molecules on activated carbon without going through the "activation" process. This rids much of the odor but not all. This is talked about in the "Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology" 4 ed, vol 4. Also under "Gasoline Emission Control" they talk about adsorbed gasoline vapor can be easily removed simply by the application of a vaccuum. Thirdly in the Technical Notes of Rohm and Haas's Ambersord, Carbonaceous Adsorbents, (Aug 1992) page six it states "activated carbon column demonstrated regeneration of activated carbon column with adsorbed chloroform using 125-130° C steam with 85-90% contaminant removal." Now 125° is hotter then most home washers and dryers, but that is the concept we built our company on. The same note goes on to say that the percentage will vary according to the contaminant. We have found that you will acheive around 70-80% regeneration each time (due to the chemicals adsorbed and the temperatures of your dryer); this 70-80% does not compound each time so you will go from Full (0%) to 70-80% regeneration and back again. 

Lastly we don't ever claim 100% reactivation. 

Lastly, you asked how long between regeneration cycles and you were correct by saying it varies with how much odor is present. Our materals us 40 hours of in the stand hunting as the benchmark. Maybe less by ten hours in the south where temperature and sweat can cause more stink. Maybe a little longer optimum conditions. I always say use judgment on this and just regenerate as often as possible. Wash it only when needed.


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## brian626 (Sep 18, 2006)

ScentLok Design said:


> Maybe this turned into too much of a debate. All we are saying is if you buy it and it doesn't work, return it...risk free. Of course we have to have stipulations, heck I've seen people at the gas station after hunts pumping 87 with it. Should we stand behind that?
> 
> What we want to do is protect the serious hunter who does the right things in terms of scent-control. We want to promote a system that we knows works. We know that you HAVE to have a headcover, a top, pants, and gloves to be scent free. We also know that feet produce a ton of odor (just ask my wife ukey: ) and they need to be protected. We also know that there needs to be some attention paid to you equipment. If you bring your bow into Subway (I don't know why you would) it would smell like Subway. Lastly, would you guarantee something like our products that was stored in a smoke filled truck? No you wouldn't. It is a sysyem a regime and if you follow our steps, we will stand behind it 100%
> 
> Lastly, it isn't that big of investment. $250 gets you in the door and over the course of three years that's $83. I don't know about you but for a week long food and beverage bill at camp it is about that much.



I have a set of natural gear fleece camos that I absolutely love. If I keep them away from any scent source gas, subway, cigarette smoke,ect. I believe them to be just as effective as your product. I wash them in water only and line dry them. So your guarantee is pretty foolish. If one were to follow scent loks regime it wouldnt matter what they were wearing they would be more succesful. IMO


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

http://www.huntingnet.com/articles/articles.aspx?articles_id=380

good info


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

*Good read on the subject*

http://www.outdoorscentral.com/artman/publish/article_169.shtml


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## TexasAggie (Aug 5, 2006)

ScentLok Design said:


> Some of this confusion is due to the wording REACTIVATED and REGENERATED. Even though many in the chemical industry use them interchangeably they are indeed different things.
> 
> One of our experts put it this way. There is a vast difference between the two. Reactivation (which is what many of you are referring to) is to send activated carbon back through the "activation process" removing ALL contaminant molecules. This requires the temperatures and systems many have referred to.
> 
> ...



I appreciate your candor, and the references. I, of course, will have to point out the differences in volatility between compounds/mixtures such as gasoline or chloroform, and sweat chemicals, e.g. ortho and para cresol, which has a vapor pressure approximately 1000 times lower than those chemicals you have cited. The boiling point of cresol is ~ 200 C, much higher than the temps you are citing, and of course nowhere near what is acheived in a dryer. 

What you are showing us is basically what I stated back several days ago... sure you can desorb chemicals off of carbon under extreme conditions (nobody here has a clothes dryer that will pull high vacuum), but not under household dryer conditions.

This is not a personal attack... just scientific skepticism.


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## anifong (Oct 6, 2005)

Thanks for the info regarding the guarantee, it's nice to know that the company will stand behind their product if you use it as directed and are unsatisfied. That's good enough for me.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

TexasAggie said:


> This is not a personal attack... just scientific skepticism.


No problem. I can honesly say most of the other stuff that he went into greater detail was absolutely greek to me.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> Legal question for you, say i go buy a suit, say it doesn't work, you will refund my money no questions asked? I would imagine that you would warranty this product as long as i own it correct?


Our customer service is going to ask a few questions about your regime and what you are doing. But if all is ok...and that is what you want well then yeah. We do want to ensure you are using it properly; meaning headcover, storage, other equipment etc. We have had people who will lie and such and we cannot help that, for the most part an honest customer is really only trying to get closer to deer. We've had no trouble accomidating customers in the three years since this warranty has been around. 

The guarantee is for three years. That number came from washing it five to six times a season over three seasons. We say a garment is good to 20 washing cycles.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

boojo35 said:


> I want to know how you can buy headgear, footwear, a full suit and proper storage containers for $250 as you are told.


Coverall 189.95
http://www.scentlok.com/products/details.asp?Product_ID=7222

Headcover 24.95
http://www.scentlok.com/products/details.asp?Product_ID=7290

Socks 17.95 minus $5.00 (mail-in rebate)
http://www.scentlok.com/products/details.asp?Product_ID=9200

Glove $34.95
http://www.scentlok.com/products/details.asp?Product_ID=7230

A tupperware container for christmas stuff is like $5.00 at Wal-Mart or Target. 

Total cost $262.80 That is through our site. I know that Cabela's, Bass Pro and Gander all sell our stuff cheaper then listed above as we use MSRP.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Our customer service is going to ask a few questions about your regime and what you are doing. But if all is ok...and that is what you want well then yeah. We do want to ensure you are using it properly; meaning headcover, storage, other equipment etc. We have had people who will lie and such and we cannot help that, for the most part an honest customer is really only trying to get closer to deer. We've had no trouble accomidating customers in the three years since this warranty has been around.
> 
> The guarantee is for three years. That number came from washing it five to six times a season over three seasons. We say a garment is good to 20 washing cycles.


 why is the garment only good for 20 washings? That seems odd since you can regenerate the suit....


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Some of this confusion is due to the wording REACTIVATED and REGENERATED. Even though many in the chemical industry use them interchangeably they are indeed different things.
> 
> One of our experts put it this way. There is a vast difference between the two. Reactivation (which is what many of you are referring to) is to send activated carbon back through the "activation process" removing ALL contaminant molecules. This requires the temperatures and systems many have referred to.
> 
> ...



So you know, 130degrees Celceius is about 275 F. Your web site says 150 degrees. so you are only losing 10% rechargability while dropping the temps by 125 F.... What amount of natural regenration occurs at 100 degrees?


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> why is the garment only good for 20 washings? That seems odd since you can regenerate the suit....


The lamination process is he limiting factor here. You can regenerate your suit pretty much as much as you want in a dryer; no problems. However the soaps and agitation of a washer begin to break the lamination after about the 20 wash mark.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> So you know, 130degrees Celceius is about 275 F. Your web site says 150 degrees. so you are only losing 10% rechargability while dropping the temps by 125 F.... What amount of natural regenration occurs at 100 degrees?


Yes I do know that. Mr. Wizard told me the formula once.  As for "Natural regeneration" are you referring to odor "falling out" of a garment just sitting in a tree in 100° temps?


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Yes I do know that. Mr. Wizard told me the formula once.  As for "Natural regeneration" are you referring to odor "falling out" of a garment just sitting in a tree in 100° temps?


 well i guess you could put it in your dryer on low.....
I do miss Mr Wizard too. Yes your descripition is what I am talking about. if you can generally do the same amount of work at a 45% heat/energy reduction, then how much is done(regenration) at a 60% heat/energy reduction?


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> The lamination process is he limiting factor here. You can regenerate your suit pretty much as much as you want in a dryer; no problems. However the soaps and agitation of a washer begin to break the lamination after about the 20 wash mark.


Handwashing too?


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

I'm terrible at quoting two posts so I am bringing them down to one.

The naturally occuring regeneration question: I do not know that answer. I do know that one of the factors is the movement of air which a human doesn't move nearly as fast in the stand or walking to the stand as a garment moves in the dryer. Also that is the reason a vaccuum was mentioned in the large post. I will investigate to see if I can't find a good solid answer. 

The washing question: Pretty much. Handwashing does lengthen the life of the garment. As I have said before the breakdown occurs due to the combination of soap and heavy agitation. Use less soap and less agitation I would venture to say our garments would last longer. 

I do want to point out that the 20 washing mark is not like a light switch of working after 19 washes and 20 it is useless. It begins to degrade at that point. From what we have seen in general is at 25-28 washings is will be degrated to the point where you will probably get busted as much as non-Scent-Lok garments. In addition, I hunt rather heavily up here in Michigan and I wash my stuff about twice to three times a season. If I lived in Louisiana it's probably be closer to the five to six times due to the amount of sweating occuring on my body.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> I'm terrible at quoting two posts so I am bringing them down to one.
> 
> The naturally occuring regeneration question: I do not know that answer. I do know that one of the factors is the movement of air which a human doesn't move nearly as fast in the stand or walking to the stand as a garment moves in the dryer. Also that is the reason a vaccuum was mentioned in the large post. I will investigate to see if I can't find a good solid answer.
> 
> ...



Hey check that out and get back with us. Another question while your at it. If there are VOC's present in the air that the dryer is using to "regenerate" the clothing, will the garment be used up when it comes from the dryer. The problem is the dryer has scent too. I am definetly interested to see how you can use 40% less heat to regenerate than a scientific study shows. Thats good reading. Is it safe to say not to use earth scented dryer sheets in the dryer ? Will this hurt the adsorptive capacity of the garment?


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> Hey check that out and get back with us.


I'll do my best. I will post it somewhere but I will also PM you. That's a great question that I haven't heard.



Marvin said:


> Another question while your at it. If there are VOC's present in the air that the dryer is using to "regenerate" the clothing, will the garment be used up when it comes from the dryer. The problem is the dryer has scent too. I am definetly interested to see how you can use 40% less heat to regenerate than a scientific study shows. Thats good reading. Is it safe to say not to use earth scented dryer sheets in the dryer ? Will this hurt the adsorptive capacity of the garment?


I know that the drying process is determined to be 45 minutes or longer because of the reason stated above. The first fifteen to twenty minutes the garment is actually adsorbing odor from the dryer as it isn't hot enough to begin the regeneration. So if you dry your garments for twenty minutes you probably have more odor contained in it then when you started. 

After the twenty minute mark is when the actual regeneration is taking place. The air coming into the dryer has odor, yes, but is negligible due to the large aount of Carbon pore structure. This total process results in the 70-80% regeneration. 

So to recap First twenty minutes the garment is still adsorbing odord (dryersheet odor for example). After that twenty minutes or so the heat and air is built up enough to begin regeneration. 45 miuntes later you should be areound 70-80% regenerated.

Lastly, no dryer sheets. As you know activated carbon is like a sponge for air, it sucks up odor of all kinds. The dryer sheet with any odor will just get adsorbed. Same with scent-wafers in the tree. If that odor is floating across the fabric it is likely to be adsorb slightly reducing capacity. The downfall to the lack of dryer sheets is static cling. My Full Season has quite a bit of static when it comes right out of the dryer. Hasn't been a problem in the stand though. 

Thanks
Nick


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> I'll do my best. I will post it somewhere but I will also PM you. That's a great question that I haven't heard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most dryers have a cooling cycle too. You might want to remind your padawans that they should probably skip that cycle as not to use up their suit. Hot zippers suck. I also found out TREES are LARGE producers of VOC's which use up the capacity of the suit. I searched for the Rohm article or tech paper but cannot find it. you got a link? I love this research stuff. No need to PM. you can post it here.


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## Professur (Dec 16, 2004)

All I can say is .... nothing in this thread has convinced me to go out and buy a ScentLock suit.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

Professur said:


> All I can say is .... nothing in this thread has convinced me to go out and buy a ScentLock suit.


shocking i tell you     i have learned a great deal more than I knew a few weeks ago. A lot of things have been confirmed too:wink:


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## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

If I throw a new suit in the dryer with a new Bounce dryer sheet, will there be no smell at all when I open the door at the end of the cycle?


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> well i guess you could put it in your dryer on low.....
> I do miss Mr Wizard too. Yes your descripition is what I am talking about. if you can generally do the same amount of work at a 45% heat/energy reduction, then how much is done(regenration) at a 60% heat/energy reduction?


To your post about 100° temperature. Ths regeneration process starts at a minimum of 107°. If you are in your stand, and it is 107° out I comments you!! Coupled with that, very very minute amounts would be shed at that low temperature even if you were constantly at "normal human" speeds.


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## grouse (Dec 9, 2003)

Professur said:


> All I can say is .... nothing in this thread has convinced me to go out and buy a ScentLock suit.


NOt even with a money back guarantee? Tough crowd. Name one scent product that offers that, if they did hunters would be jumping all over it.


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## fasst (Oct 1, 2004)

Well this thread has convinced me to give Scent Lok a try. I have heard more "real life" testimonials promoting the product, than negative responses from the select few who have never even tried it. IMO, if it offers even a slight advantage, I am one up on ya' :wink:


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## JBart7 (Jan 31, 2006)

ScentLok Design said:


> It is a laminating process. There are several manufacturers around the world who do lamination processes, ours is proprietary information due to our patents.
> 
> An actual carbon cloth is VERY hard to make as carbon (activated or otherwise) is brittle and has zero stretch capabilities. Some yarns have successfully been made, but it's uses are very limited due to the above factors.
> 
> Nick


Proprietary information due to your patents is a conflicting statement. Anything, in a patent is public knowledge. (which is one of the problems with the patent process IMO). Proprietary information or a trade secret is knowledge that a company would not disclose. Sometimes this is better than a patent - if you have figured something out and are confident your competition cannot. In other words if it's proprietary information you 'do not' have a patent on it. 

Are you guys making your carbon (impregnated) fibers and laminating using 'your own' process?? A process that Scent Lok developed? I was under a different impression I guess. 

As far as product effectiveness I would agree that scent lok does work but has it's limitations. If they are willing to give a guarantee and the hunter is willling to follow the rules to meet the guarantee then great. They stated the rules of guarantee so if you don't want to follow then realize there is no guarantee.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

tackscall said:


> If I throw a new suit in the dryer with a new Bounce dryer sheet, will there be no smell at all when I open the door at the end of the cycle?


There will probably be some smell. As air will be circulating, coming in from outdoors and after the dryer stops some odor from the lint trap will probably be detected. As for when you put it into an airtight container when you open it up to put it on there will be VERY little if any odor. 

Again, we don't claim to make you 100% scent-free. We do claim to bring your overall human odor below levels of detection by big game. The reason is pretty obvious as only a bubble would make you 100% scent-free. There will always be odor emitting into the air, we greatly reduce it. 

For example, our video teams whisper in the stand even though a deer may be present. Is there sound? Yes. Can the deer hear them? No. When you wear our suits is there odor? Yes. Can deer smell us to the point of being alarmed? No.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

JBart7 said:


> Proprietary information due to your patents is a conflicting statement. Anything, in a patent is public knowledge. (which is one of the problems with the patent process IMO). Proprietary information or a trade secret is knowledge that a company would not disclose. Sometimes this is better than a patent - if you have figured something out and are confident your competition cannot. In other words if it's proprietary information you 'do not' have a patent on it.


Sorry I mispoke there. Our laminating process is proprietary, I'm not gonna tell you how we do it or who does it for us. Our patents cover a much bigger subject then lamination. 



JBart7 said:


> Are you guys making your carbon (impregnated) fibers and laminating using 'your own' process?? A process that Scent Lok developed? I was under a different impression I guess.


Activated carbon that is impregnated is not nearly a reliable due to its brittle and rigid qualities. Our lamination process took roughly ten years to perfect. We only sell single layer fabric to licensees finished. 



JBart7 said:


> As far as product effectiveness I would agree that scent lok does work but has it's limitations. If they are willing to give a guarantee and the hunter is willling to follow the rules to meet the guarantee then great. They stated the rules of guarantee so if you don't want to follow then realize there is no guarantee.


Well said. Pretty simple in the long and short.


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## siucowboy (Aug 31, 2006)

*I'm on the edge...*

I will admit, you've provided more agruments that are at least logical in nature to make me think about trying some...but I still have one hang up that I guess makes me cheap....why would i spend $250 on gear that i know I'll have to replace in say 4-5 years cause the washing machine wore it out....if any of my regular clothes wore out from 20+ washings I'd switch brands..

I dunno, maybe I'm worrying too hard about how often I'd wash them, but with my regular clothes I wash quite often! That's part of my scent control routine....the only things I don't wash repeatily through the season are my outermost garments (jackets, pants, bibs)....

Plus to be honest, I don't see how it benefits the western hunter near as much....A typical day hunting mulies for me involves getting up high, glassing for deer, watching them bed down and then stalking INTO the wind...I've been taking an in-law lately that smokes and stinks to high heaven and I can't say it's made me any less successful on stalks with him...we just make sure the wind is right...


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## floater (Aug 16, 2004)

So far, I have avoided detection with 6 deer downwind this year. I have a new Savannah coveralls I bought new for $79.99 with head cover. Not bad. One of the deer was a mature doe that saw me but was unable to verify with her nose. Believe me she was trying.


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*The Battle Rages*

It seems the Yhe Scent Lok Man from Scent Lok Headquarters is fighting a pretty good fight! This battle has raged on this Site for weeks...the thing that surprises me, is that people have sent posts for the last 5 years saying Scent Lok/Scentblocker Garments don't work and little to no Reply was heard from the company...But, this year it is a full court press to save the industry? For every comment a Hunter sends in, there are scripted answers from Scent Lok Headquarters....Still no one clears up the refund policy??? I think that might win you some business: exactly what could you verify by phone/mail as to whether the garment was used properly? Another item...someone said you guys have had this return policy for years and hardly anyone returns the suits...Drive to your local Cabelas...go to Customer Service...look behind the counter...you'll see Scent Lok and Scent Blocker Suits in piles...then go to the Cabelas Bargin Cave (Their Reduced Rate Store) you'll see all the scent free gear you care to see?

I try to remain neutral, as I have sold my Scent Free Gear and truly feel it never did much...but, I do feel for the 18 - 30 year olds with young kids who can't afford 250.00 outfits, but, they save and scrimp and buy one only to find out it really was just media hype/advertising! 

Just a couple points....But, Deer Hunting is our passion so everybody has an opinion!


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Sorry I mispoke there. Our laminating process is proprietary, I'm not gonna tell you how we do it or who does it for us. Our patents cover a much bigger subject then lamination.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really have to ask how you, scentlok, can get the same carbon molecules to regenerate at 45% less heat and get the same results. it is activated carbon after all, it been around longer than the rest of us. Did your Patent get questioned?


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

Marvin said:


> http://www.outdoorscentral.com/artman/publish/article_169.shtml


Regohio and everyone...read thsi article. it might clear some things up for you on why we are NOW hearing from them. Customer retainage...


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Thanks*

Marvin,

I read that article a month or more ago. We even talked about it in the full Bow Shop...care to guess how many guys defended Poor Scent Lok/Scent Blocker...NONE!

Everyone agreed it was all Advertising Hype! I understand that people want it to work...Heck It Is A Great Idea...But, it isn't possible....If this VERY THIN Carbon absorbs odors then it is actually holding more smell than you started with! Now that said...there camo patterns are excellent and their clothes are designed well...I'd be happier if someone came out and said : "Hey guys...we jumped the gun and maybe our clothes can't do everything we thought...But, we make the best...most rugged hunting outfits you can buy...Try Us Out!!! (I know it won't ever happen, but, it would be refreshing!)


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

> It seems the Yhe Scent Lok Man from Scent Lok Headquarters is fighting a pretty good fight!


Fighting with marketing skills? 

They sent a marketing guy to do their warranty work. Strange. I'll give him kudo's for doing his best though! 

Why not send one of the load of scientists to give a brief overview? No proprietary info needed.

There was a simple question that has a simple answer. That answer is not "guarantee" either. 

20 washings? Good grief, you better take the suit off as soon as you get off stand, even after a kill. Don't want blood on it for sure! Did someone fail to mention about it not being effective in high humidity or rain? Makes it sorta useless in Louisiana.

Yep, a skeptic who returned a suit after reading more. 

You (meaning any of the supporters)? A consumer who is happy. No biggie either.

Good Luck to all!


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## JTM (Jun 11, 2006)

*JTM - Scent Loc Temperature Recharge*


```
-
```
Activated Charcoal requires "what" temperature to recharge in the Scentloc Suits????? Having worked with "activated charcoal in my environmental days early in my career, "carbon stripping" cylinders required substantial temperatures to "recharge" the activated charcoal.

Can someone at Scentloc tell me exactly what temperature will release 100% of the odors absorbed in everyday hunting use. My guess is that no hunter has a "dryer" at home that can achieve this "required temperature". 

Scentloc reps...please advise.

JTM


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## hooks (Mar 22, 2005)

*Cabelas Fall Master 2006 edition II--Ad on back cover*

With our revolutionary Whitetail Extreme System you get durability, quietness, complete protection from the elements,total scent control, exceptional fit and organized accessability to a multitude of equipment storage.*This is the best camouflage clothing we've ever produced.* Each piece is fully insulated with LiteLoft to provide all the warmth and comfort you'll ever need.For the scent-conscious hunter, each piece is available with a charcoal-impregnated Scent-Lok lining. Imported.........

Reg. Scent-Lok Parka----309.95
Reg. Scent-Lok Bibs------279.95


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## deer man (Dec 31, 2003)

*scent lok*

we have given scent lok a try last three years,3 brothers,one nephew.

we have had deer closer to us down wind than previous years.what do we know,not much like a few of you professors,we have been in woods with bows a litle over 100 years combined is all.you can debate it all you want ,i say either try it or leave it.all we can say it has grealty help as another tool ,in trying to beat his nose.good hunting jim

ps 
that canadian whitetail my nephew shot came from down wind,but who knows the way the wind current was going


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Buy Now!*

Since they are only good for a few washings I'd buy 3 sets...let's see add shipping...hmmmm 2000.00....But, isn't it worth it to be "TOTALLY SCENT FREE???" :tongue:


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## Regohio (Jan 13, 2006)

*Wow...What Are The Odds???*

Deer Man You are from Muskegon...Scent Lok is from Muskegon and the guy defending Scent Lok is from there???? As far as time in the woods everyone in my camp has 30 - 40 years Deer Hunting Experience....Just not big on gimmicks! Michigan opener Sunday...let's knock down a couple Monsters!


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## cnl390 (Nov 27, 2005)

I have learned that even though they ain't that good at football, and the city of Austin takes it's old garbage trucks paints a big "W" on the side and sells them in College Station as Winnebagos. When it comes to scientific stuff and kick *ss marching bands the Aggies just can't be beat!


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## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

I think the Scentlok guy did as good a job giving some info as I've ever seen from the company. I use it and so do others I hunt with. One only washes his once a year. Just regenerates it and yes we do remove the stuff if we aren't hunting that includes field dressing animals. It really is not a big deal. I would imagine most would remove some clothing to do that job in colder climates. You would think the stuff that is only washed once a year would stink, it doesn't. We do put the stuff on after leaving the vehicle and take it off when returning. We would regardless of what we were wearing. We don't wear our hunting clothes unless we are hunting. As far as defending the product I don't do that much but it has nothing to do with if it works or not. We have a relationship, I pay top dollar and they give me clothes, end of deal. If they gave me clothes at a better price I would owe them something, some in the industry do and I make it a point to speak up for them, it is not the case here. I do wear 2 sets for those of you who are counting. I might add a third:tongue: . If they loose their scent absorption ability I still have some top notch hunting clothes so what's the loss. They do a fine job at blocking the wind for such light weight clothes. (I have gotten some on sale so I owed them that one 

And for those who are keeping track, I'm also from Ohio.:cocktail: And for the record don't buy the stuff, let it sit there. I'll be along post season to pick it up at a more affordable price. it would help this dad of 5 outfit them.


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

*$$$$$*



hooks said:


> With our revolutionary Whitetail Extreme System you get durability, quietness, complete protection from the elements,total scent control, exceptional fit and organized accessability to a multitude of equipment storage.*This is the best camouflage clothing we've ever produced.* Each piece is fully insulated with LiteLoft to provide all the warmth and comfort you'll ever need.For the scent-conscious hunter, each piece is available with a charcoal-impregnated Scent-Lok lining. Imported.........
> 
> Reg. Scent-Lok Parka----309.95
> Reg. Scent-Lok Bibs------279.95



Or would I buy a Grey Wolf WOOL comfortmax/liteloft lined jacket for $289.95?

I think I'll take Grey Wolf!


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Regohio said:


> It seems the Yhe Scent Lok Man from Scent Lok Headquarters is fighting a pretty good fight! This battle has raged on this Site for weeks...the thing that surprises me, is that people have sent posts for the last 5 years saying Scent Lok/Scentblocker Garments don't work and little to no Reply was heard from the company...But, this year it is a full court press to save the industry?


Well I do know that to post in this fashion the rules of ArcheryTalk require sponsorship. We recently signed on and now we can. Another reason thaat I am on not just this but several chat boards is to counter some of the articles that have recently been published by certain authors who have very little or no expertise. Thanks though for the above statement I will take that is a compliment.



Regohio said:


> For every comment a Hunter sends in, there are scripted answers from Scent Lok Headquarters....Still no one clears up the refund policy??? I think that might win you some business: exactly what could you verify by phone/mail as to whether the garment was used properly? Another item...someone said you guys have had this return policy for years and hardly anyone returns the suits...Drive to your local Cabelas...go to Customer Service...look behind the counter...you'll see Scent Lok and Scent Blocker Suits in piles...then go to the Cabelas Bargin Cave (Their Reduced Rate Store) you'll see all the scent free gear you care to see?


Well I guess you could say they are scripted if you want. I write all the materials and get them approved through the management and our team of enginers. I will honestly say that I am not giving just canned answers here. As you can see above Marvin made me do a little research. 

If you should call, all we are trying to guage is that you aren't doing something terribly wrong and getting busted because of it. For example we had a guy call a while ago wanting to return his defective suit. We asked about how he was regenerating it, and he put it in the microwave. We aren't going to warrant that. 

Also, all those items behind the counter at Cabela's make it back to us and I can tell you that those "piles" are nothing compared to the satisfied customers we have. And the bargin cave is another great way to get under that $250 mark I was talking about before. 

Thanks for the post.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> Regohio and everyone...read thsi article. it might clear some things up for you on why we are NOW hearing from them. Customer retainage...


Have you seen his testimonial from a while back here? 

"I thought I would write you and tell you of some of my experiences with your clothing. First, having been a biology student in college and having worked in the medical industry, I know charcoal is one of the best filter mediums known. However, I was skeptical about it's use in clothing. But not now. My first experience was in October when early in the morning I walked through a group of bedded does and fawns in an open field on the way to my stand. The deer heard me and spooked. When they snorted I held still, snorted back and they snorted again. I took out my grunt call and grunted, as I alternately grunted and snorted to the deer they approached me downwind. This was with an eight mile an hour wind with 80% humidity. These were optimal conditions for the deer to scent me. They actually came back to me within 15 yards. All the time I expected them to wind me and spook but they didn't They finally moved slowly away. I would like to say it was because of my camouflage but I know better it was your Scent-Lok. 

The next day, under the same conditions a doe and fawn approached me when I was just glassing my area. I was not wearing Scent-Lok and when the doe got downwind she literally turned inside out. She didn't see me but reacted to my smell. 

Since then I have had nine more deer in 11 days within 150 yards downwind, including one eight point buck I grunted in within 18 yds and another that I rattled in to within five yards. When I attempted to take his picture he spotted me. He spooked but I grunted to stop him then rattled him back in again to within seven yards. During this time I had about a ten mile an hour wind and the buck was at all times downwind. He definitely should have smelled me. There is no question in my mind that Scent-Lok is the reason for my success. This is a GREAT product and it should be part of every big game hunter's wardrobe. 

...Thanks for a great product, I wish I had though of it." T.R. 

T.R. Michels - Minnesota

http://www.scentlok.com/testimonials/


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

jbo3 said:


> 20 washings? Good grief, you better take the suit off as soon as you get off stand, even after a kill. Don't want blood on it for sure! Did someone fail to mention about it not being effective in high humidity or rain? Makes it sorta useless in Louisiana.


Nobody mentioned it because it does work in high humidity and rain. This is the same technology that is in Brita water filters on a small scale and water filtration facilities around the world.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

JTM said:


> ```
> -
> ```
> Activated Charcoal requires "what" temperature to recharge in the Scentloc Suits????? Having worked with "activated charcoal in my environmental days early in my career, "carbon stripping" cylinders required substantial temperatures to "recharge" the activated charcoal.
> ...


Again to achieve 100% is a totally different thing then what we state. The above posts to Marvin have your answer.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Well I do know that to post in this fashion the rules of ArcheryTalk require sponsorship. We recently signed on and now we can. Another reason thaat I am on not just this but several *chat boards is to counter some of the articles that have recently been published by certain authors who have very little or no expertise*. Thanks though for the above statement I will take that is a compliment.


 With all due respect, we would like to see your expertise. we have some professionals rigth here who could easily take a look and probably give an 80% agreement rate with your research or hypothesis. You cannot fight "supposive" half truths with the old " I'm right and your wrong" comments and no facts.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Have you seen his testimonial from a while back here?
> 
> "I thought I would write you and tell you of some of my experiences with your clothing. First, having been a biology student in college and having worked in the medical industry, I know charcoal is one of the best filter mediums known. However, I was skeptical about it's use in clothing. But not now. My first experience was in October when early in the morning I walked through a group of bedded does and fawns in an open field on the way to my stand. The deer heard me and spooked. When they snorted I held still, snorted back and they snorted again. I took out my grunt call and grunted, as I alternately grunted and snorted to the deer they approached me downwind. This was with an eight mile an hour wind with 80% humidity. These were optimal conditions for the deer to scent me. They actually came back to me within 15 yards. All the time I expected them to wind me and spook but they didn't They finally moved slowly away. I would like to say it was because of my camouflage but I know better it was your Scent-Lok.
> 
> ...


 When did he submit that? you have been holding the permit for about 10 years. thats a long time to raise some questions. maybe he has seen the light... interesting research he has done on your patents.


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## thomcat (Nov 17, 2004)

The design may work 100% of the time, but there is no way you can tell me that humans do not omit som odor. The odor will certainly escape through the neck, arms, legs, etc.... If just one sq. in. of skin is exposed you are emitting scent. I have a scent lok suit, and I do believe they help stop some human scent, not all. 

Example: If you let a nice ripe fart go, you can smell it through the suit! So, if I can smell it I know the deer can! Will you gaurantee it against farts?


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

thomcat said:


> The design may work 100% of the time, but there is no way you can tell me that humans do not omit som odor. The odor will certainly escape through the neck, arms, legs, etc.... If just one sq. in. of skin is exposed you are emitting scent. I have a scent lok suit, and I do believe they help stop some human scent, not all.


Again, we don't claim 100% scent free. We bring the amount below the threshold of scent wary game animals. 



thomcat said:


> Example: If you let a nice ripe fart go, you can smell it through the suit! So, if I can smell it I know the deer can! Will you gaurantee it against farts?


You would not believe some of the stories I hear on this subject. However are you sure the smell is coming through your suit, into the outside air, up to your facial area, then through your face mask and into your nose? I think that most times when people well me this is they are actually having it come up inside your suit to your nose. We haven't tested this, nor would I want to be in the office the day they decide to. ukey:


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> When did he submit that? you have been holding the permit for about 10 years. thats a long time to raise some questions. maybe he has seen the light... interesting research he has done on your patents.


Permit? I don't know what you are talking about. However T.R. has other motivating factors behind that article. That's all I am going to say about the subject.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

Marvin said:


> With all due respect, we would like to see your expertise. we have some professionals rigth here who could easily take a look and probably give an 80% agreement rate with your research or hypothesis. You cannot fight "supposive" half truths with the old " I'm right and your wrong" comments and no facts.


You're right and when I can I will. Until then I can offer the original Gurarantee. I'm sorry but that is what I can offer.


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## ScentLok Design (Dec 14, 2005)

I am seeing a lot of repeat questions and for the most part I can see that we really diverted into the science aspects that I originally said I wasn't going to go into. In addition my desk is full of other projects that I have to pay some more attention to so if you do post, it may be day or so before I get back on. Also, I am not going to post in the other sections very often. 

If somebody has a question feel free to personal messege me and I will address it on a person by person basis. I want to thank all of you for being so polite and respectful. I appreciate your challenges and I will make every effort to release the information I do have. 

Lastly, as stated numerous times his thread is about our guarantee. If you are getting busted, call us, e-mail me, PM me. Let's figure this thing out. We are confident in our products so much so that we are offering this guarantee. 

Thanks again for all the comments and posts. 

Nick


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

ScentLok Design said:


> Permit? I don't know what you are talking about. However T.R. has other motivating factors behind that article. That's all I am going to say about the subject.


Cats out of the bag Nick, time to be a man. You cannot make a statement like that without some kind of back up facts..oh wait..I forgot. ... you cannot tell us that....What was I thinking. Someone calls your BS and NOW they have other motivating factors( but you just cannot say...so why bring it up?)? Truly an marketing specialist you are. I hope they are paying you enough cause I feel your gonna to earn it real soon. Yoru comapny is motivated by finanical gains so what make what you say any worse or better than what TJ says. He provides Nice links to information...and you ........just say well... we have our garantee.


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## siucowboy (Aug 31, 2006)

*what's TR got to say?*

I'm thinking we should contact TR Michaels and ask what's the deal as well....

how come there's a testimonial on SL's website from him, yet his own website goes on and on about how activated charcoal is a sham...

Is he unaware of the testimonial attributed to him on their website or was he truly motivated by something else to change his stance?


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## siucowboy (Aug 31, 2006)

*TR Contact info from his website*

here's the email for him off his website

[email protected],


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## fasst (Oct 1, 2004)

Time to lock this one fellas. It is becoming very redundant. Both sides have stated their cases, either you believe in it and it gives you an advantage, or you don't.

Fasst


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