# Elite get Levi??



## Skeeter 58

Frank/PA said:


> Not sure if this is true and you know how the archery rumor mill is.....buuutttt..... I heard through the grapevine that Levi is headed to Elite???? is this true???


Well like the old wise Indian chief once said "Don't know"


----------



## ghostgoblin22

that would be pretty big news, I say its not true, it would already be a big thread on it here, but hey I could be wrong and that would be a huge move


----------



## mathews-nut

Well last weekend in Bama he was still shooting a mathews, not that things couldnt change between now and then.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

the thing is I don't think Elite can pay what Mathews pays him, but I may be wrong..i personally would shoot a Elite over a Mathew, I love both companies, but for a shooting aspect I would go with elite..but Mathews isn't a bad choice by any means


----------



## rodney482

It would be great to see him shooting a 2 track.


----------



## Skeeter 58

rodney482 said:


> It would be great to see him shooting a 2 track.



Now there you go again Rodney. Showing off more dead critters you killed. 

Geesh!

Nice avatar man.


----------



## BowHuntnKY

Just think if he shot a Hoyt.....no one would have a chance at beating him...lol.....
F


Well its not like they do now...most of the time lol


----------



## rodney482

Shhh I killed that one with a solocam 




Skeeter 58 said:


> Now there you go again Rodney. Showing off more dead critters you killed.
> 
> Geesh!
> 
> Nice avatar man.


----------



## ontarget7

I highly doubt it ! Then again you never know


----------



## rodney482

Did he switch to scott/cbe ?


----------



## InjunJR

I think he's been with Scott/CBE for a while now?


----------



## rodney482

InjunJR said:


> I think he's been with Scott/CBE for a while now?


Well.. Elite, Scott and CBE are all owned by the same company.

*winners choice as well


----------



## BowHuntnKY

rodney482 said:


> Did he switch to scott/cbe ?


Yes


----------



## Viper69

I think he tried to leave once before but he was still under contract so it wouldnt surprise me


----------



## nimh

I doubt it simply cause elites target bows are not on the same level as matthews. If it was hoyt or pse then I might think its a possibility.


----------



## bow shooter

He's shooting Mathews at the IBO world shoot this week. Setting in second after day one today was canceled due to rain.


----------



## OrangeBlood

there is also a thread about this in 3D forum


----------



## ghostgoblin22

now I will say the Mathews conquest apex and C4 are awesome target bows, you cant go wrong with those on a target stand point


----------



## -bowfreak-

It wouldn't surprise me. Levi can shoot any bow and win. It would be a big get for Elite for sure.


----------



## ontarget7

-bowfreak- said:


> It wouldn't surprise me. Levi can shoot any bow and win. It would be a big get for Elite for sure.


I will agree he can shoot regardless but it will definitely be a transition he will have to get used to. Speaking from a back tension point of few and the Elite bows


----------



## AR&BOW

I would put money on that not happening.


----------



## aread

Every year for the last 3 or 4 years, we get several threads about Levi leaving Mathews. It hasn't happened yet & I doubt it will.


----------



## ridgehunter70

IMO if levi is going to leave Mathews then he will do it with a company worth leaving Mathews for and that's the brand he tried leaving Mathews before. PSE


----------



## mag22

ontarget7 said:


> I highly doubt it ! Then again you never know


Rumor is Reo is headed to Bear!


----------



## ontarget7

mag22 said:


> Rumor is Reo is headed to Bear!


Had to chuckle at that one


----------



## J Whittington

AR&BOW said:


> I would put money on that not happening.


How much ?


----------



## jjtrain44

Well wouldn't that be a real dandy trade for mathews, they bring Ted Nugent into the family and let one of the best archers slip away.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

It would be cool to see. I like the folks at Elite and the bows they produce. Levi would put their bows to the top of the podium on a regular basis.


----------



## thebeav

Mathews contingeny money is pretty high and from looking around that would be a big loss for him when he wins a shoot. It doesn't look like a lot of companies offer big contingency money but pse Hoyt and Mathews.


----------



## Tony219er

That would be a surprise... Elite's target bows aren't in the same league as Mathews...and I'm not knocking Elite but the feel between the two is worlds apart.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## seafaris

I shoot an Elite Tour, and I'm very happy with it, but it is my first target bow. How would you compare the difference between the two. If this would be considered highjacking the thread, just send me a PM. Thanks.



Tony219er said:


> That would be a surprise... Elite's target bows aren't in the same league as Mathews...and I'm not knocking Elite but the feel between the two is worlds apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bow shooter

As well as he has done with Mathews if I was him I wouldn't change anything right now . He wins almost every 3 d event he enters don't mess with something when it's not broke


----------



## NYSBowman

jjtrain44 said:


> Well wouldn't that be a real dandy trade for mathews, they bring Ted Nugent into the family and let one of the best archers slip away.


It's not crazily far fetched IMO. I would guess that Ted is far more recognizable than Levi especially with most "Joe Schmo Hunters"....and has his own hunting show. 

I've def heard plenty about Levi, but couldn't pick him out of a lineup. I think I've seen maybe one pic of him.


----------



## sean1

mag22 said:


> Rumor is Reo is headed to Bear!


Really?? Cause I just heard at the shop he had moved to Oneida!!


----------



## Garceau

I'd bet a soda he is not with Mathews next year


----------



## tmorelli

NYSBowman said:


> It's not crazily far fetched IMO. I would guess that Ted is far more recognizable than Levi especially with most "Joe Schmo Hunters"....and has his own hunting show.
> 
> I've def heard plenty about Levi, but couldn't pick him out of a lineup. I think I've seen maybe one pic of him.


Levi has a show too. Its pretty good. You should watch it sometime. Its called Name the Game. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Garceau

Great show!


----------



## pozoutdoors

I could see him moving. But, not elite. Elite builds a great bow. That's what I hunt with. Mathews, hoyt and PSE pay the best!!!


----------



## wvminer

Hoyt don't pay that much. Look what Dan McCarthy got form hoyt at the classic for 3rd 250.00 form Hoyt. Jeff Hopkins got 4,000 form mathews for 2nd. Big difference.


----------



## hjort jagare

Would be great for Elite. Dont think for a minute that Elite would not beat or match Mathews $ to grab a shooter of his stature.


----------



## rattlinman

-bowfreak- said:


> It wouldn't surprise me. Levi can shoot any bow and win. It would be a big get for Elite for sure.


But hypothetically speaking, what if he didn't? Let's see he switches to a company not in the top 5, like Elite or Prime...and suddenly stops winning?

Could we then blame it on the bow and not the indian? Can you imagine?


----------



## Doebuster

Mathews pays the best ! He ain't going no where !


----------



## Garceau

Doebuster said:


> Mathews pays the best ! He ain't going no where !


Mathews DID pay the best. Company dynamics have changed since Matt stepped away.

Its fun to speculate anyways

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## pozoutdoors

rattlinman said:


> But hypothetically speaking, what if he didn't? Let's see he switches to a company not in the top 5, like Elite or Prime...and suddenly stops winning?
> 
> Could we then blame it on the bow and not the indian? Can you imagine?


He would be like dave cousins. Limb stops are just not as forgiving. You good shot are still good. But, your bad shots are not as good!!!


----------



## bowtechnow

tmorelli said:


> Levi has a show too. Its pretty good. You should watch it sometime. Its called Name the Game.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


I just got done watching it as a matter of fact. One of the few shows I like.


----------



## tmorelli

bowtechnow said:


> I just got done watching it as a matter of fact. One of the few shows I like.


Me too. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bows_-_arrows

I heard prime has made him an offer.....


----------



## Hoythunter01

rattlinman said:


> But hypothetically speaking, what if he didn't? Let's see he switches to a company not in the top 5, like Elite or Prime...and suddenly stops winning?
> 
> Could we then blame it on the bow and not the indian? Can you imagine?


It would still be the Indian. You'd have to take the "Top" guy to pull this off. Someone who is pretty much unstoppable. Reo ??


----------



## Tony219er

seafaris said:


> I shoot an Elite Tour, and I'm very happy with it, but it is my first target bow. How would you compare the difference between the two. If this would be considered highjacking the thread, just send me a PM. Thanks.


The main difference is the back walls (limb stops) and low holding weight of Elite's....although the holding weight can be tuned higher the limb stops can not be softened. Totally my opinion and it would be a big change although their's no doubt a shooter at Levi's level would still be dominant most likely with any bow.


----------



## markdenis

Levi or any top pro can take any modern bow and make it work for them. Granted it may be far from factory specs when they get done with them, but they know what to do to make them shoot the way they want.


----------



## Garceau

Tony219er said:


> The main difference is the back walls (limb stops) and low holding weight of Elite's....although the holding weight can be tuned higher the limb stops can not be softened. Totally my opinion and it would be a big change although their's no doubt a shooter at Levi's level would still be dominant most likely with any bow.


Yes they can.....many are doing it. Even some pro staff for them have been seen with a little different configuration to soften up the back wall some.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## HOYT_ARCHER_23

Now that would be a SHOCKER!!!!! hahahah


----------



## HOYT_ARCHER_23

I have heard rumors about him possibly going to PSE but i doubt it, matthews has way to much money tied into Levi and Samantha, there is no way that elite could match it, especially with Levi's hunting show. PSE is the only company i think he would go to, Hoyt is more a paper puncher company, Broadwater, reo, etc. Hoyt makes great bows dont get me wrong, i have shot one for years. Hoyt has the best paper shooters in the world and matthews has the best 3d shooters in the world.


----------



## HOYT_ARCHER_23

Another side note, if levi left matthews then that means im sure Samantha would go with to, they cant shoot different bows on there hunting show, could you imagine, a matthews and PSE or Elite sponsored show?? that wouldnt work. So Elite wouldnt be paying just levi, they would have to pay Samantha as well and she is one of the best female 3der's in the world as well. The money just isnt there. once levis hunting show takes off, im guessing his target career will take a back seat, matthews carries the hunting industry alot better than elite. I compare this to John Dudley, when his hunting show took off, he stepped away from the tourney scene. Just some thoughts i would throw out there folks. Could topic for discussion though, it is fun to talk about the what if though.


----------



## Dooger

I heard this same rumor last October. I wouldn't put it past them, it seems like Elite is starting to throw some money around. They are heavily advertised now. Seems like 1 in 3 shows on the Outdoor & Sportsman Channel are using/sponsored by Elite. Their printed ads are increasing too. Personally, I'm guessing that by buying other companies, they've diversified and increased overall profits.


----------



## Bryan Thacker

nimh said:


> I doubt it simply cause elites target bows are not on the same level as matthews. If it was hoyt or pse then I might think its a possibility.


Stranger things have happened...Dave Cousins went to Prime before they even had a target bow!


----------



## ferretboy

NO. They did not.


----------



## thare1774

You guys are all wrong! What happened was, Mathews called me up a few days ago and asked me to replace Levi on their pro staff. I told em between work and family I just dont have time to fill Levis shoes. Plus im an Athens/Prime guy


----------



## Claydoh

nimh said:


> I doubt it simply cause elites target bows are not on the same level as matthews. If it was hoyt or pse then I might think its a possibility.


Hahaha


----------



## jimb

has Levi ever shot and won with another bow company?


----------



## jimb

Claydoh said:


> Hahaha


you can laugh but they haven't proved it yet. I'm not saying they aren't but I'm saying it hasn't been proven yet. If Levi shoots them we will soon see.


----------



## Shooter78

Claydoh said:


> Hahaha


x2:***::bs:


----------



## reylamb

Mathews is not worried about loosing Levi.......

I mean, archerytalk is filled with sub 2" group at 100 yard shooters, they will have no problem filing his shoes.....just because they havent ever done it because they have no desire to compete...so what, Mathews will line their pockets with so much money, they will finally get to prove to the world they really do shoot sub 2" groups......

or something like that...


----------



## mtn3531

Levi is under contract with Mathews until the IBO shoot is up, his contract is up this month and that has been known for some time. Most likely he is gone from Mathews, I think when Matt took him to court to get him to stay under contract he burnt that bridge between Levi and Mathews. Maybe, maybe not. We'll find out soon enough. I doubt it will be Elite though, he's been wanting to shoot PSE for a while now and I've seen him looking over Chance's equipment on the pro range several times. We'll all find out soon enough.


----------



## mtn3531

reylamb said:


> Mathews is not worried about loosing Levi.......
> 
> I mean, archerytalk is filled with sub 2" group at 100 yard shooters, they will have no problem filing his shoes.....just because they havent ever done it because they have no desire to compete...so what, Mathews will line their pockets with so much money, they will finally get to prove to the world they really do shoot sub 2" groups......
> 
> or something like that...


Lol, those 80yd dime shooters will be lining up ya think?


----------



## mtn3531

jimb said:


> has Levi ever shot and won with another bow company?


Yes


----------



## mtn3531

pozoutdoors said:


> He would be like dave cousins. Limb stops are just not as forgiving. You good shot are still good. But, your bad shots are not as good!!!


Cousins shoots the Prime One with cable stops, not limb stops.


----------



## buckslayer22

Elite had the money. They have bought many companies since thy have been out for example Scott and cbe... Which Levi is already sponsored by so you never know.


----------



## J Whittington

any one want to gamble with the cleatus ? To all my buddies, stay mum...you guys know my rules for betting....

again I ask how much :tongue:


----------



## jimb

mtn3531 said:


> Yes


ok which one


----------



## reylamb

mtn3531 said:


> Lol, those 80yd dime shooters will be lining up ya think?


Nah, they all say they have no interest in competing!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mtn3531

jimb said:


> ok which one


PSE, it's what he started out shooting

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Meet+...whunter+TV+welcomes+its+newest...-a0299899515


----------



## bowhunter erwin

A man as good as Levi can shot any bow. The man is freak of nature. When u are good you are good.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Tony219er said:


> The main difference is the back walls (limb stops) and low holding weight of Elite's....although the holding weight can be tuned higher the limb stops can not be softened. Totally my opinion and it would be a big change although their's no doubt a shooter at Levi's level would still be dominant most likely with any bow.


I like Elite bows but HATE the crazy low holding weights. Just an awful thing for countless reasons. I have to set the all at 80% or shorter to make them work for me.


----------



## droppin bucks

I like how the AT community seems to know how much money Elite has or doesn't have. Since everyone knows how much does Mathews pay him not including outside endorsements?


----------



## shooter34

Wow Tim just won the IBO worlds with a Hoyt and has done it before with a Mathews. These guys can win at any time no matter what's in their hands.. It's the Indian not the bow!


----------



## griffwar

:***:I like it, read on here everyday about them 100 yard beer can shooter's. lol


reylamb said:


> Mathews is not worried about loosing Levi.......
> 
> I mean, archerytalk is filled with sub 2" group at 100 yard shooters, they will have no problem filing his shoes.....just because they havent ever done it because they have no desire to compete...so what, Mathews will line their pockets with so much money, they will finally get to prove to the world they really do shoot sub 2" groups......
> 
> or something like that...


----------



## Dabo72

reylamb said:


> Mathews is not worried about loosing Levi.......
> 
> I mean, archerytalk is filled with sub 2" group at 100 yard shooters, they will have no problem filing his shoes.....just because they havent ever done it because they have no desire to compete...so what, Mathews will line their pockets with so much money, they will finally get to prove to the world they really do shoot sub 2" groups......
> 
> or something like that...


LOL.. Ain't that the truth


----------



## jmann28

Read bowjunky's final post on Facebook from yesterday. States that 'BREAKING NEWS' is coming as its a contract year. Not too many pro's could warrant a breaking news headline. Perhaps it's true.


----------



## rodney482

TexasCanesFan said:


> I like Elite bows but HATE the crazy low holding weights. Just an awful thing for countless reasons. I have to set the all at 80% or shorter to make them work for me.


Are they not adjustable for valley and letoff?


----------



## hunt123

mtn3531 said:


> PSE, it's what he started out shooting
> 
> http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Meet+...whunter+TV+welcomes+its+newest...-a0299899515


Good article, thanks for posting.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rodney482 said:


> Are they not adjustable for valley and letoff?


Of course. That's why I said I set them at 80% or shorter.


----------



## Early Ice

Levi who?


----------



## bigbucks170

Sure hope he goes with PSE!


----------



## Kighty7

It will be interesting to see. I am sure bowjunkie will fill everyone in. My thought is he will go to elite or PSE. But if I had to pick between the 2, Elite!


----------



## WhitBri

These pros don't make near enough as is. If he does change its a contract thing, and there are only two things I would see for reasons for him to change. 1. $$$$$ and 2. Time. He does have a new son and with the tv show taking off maybe he is looking for a change in regards to time commitment. 
He's just trying to put food on the table and give his family the best life possible. Whatever happens I hope all on here remember that. He wouldn't be a bad guy for leaving mathews, or joining another company.


----------



## destroyerb784

I would love to see him shoot for Elite but what ever he chooses to do I will be a Levi Morgan and Name The Game fan.


----------



## Buckin doe

Levi is from my home town of Uniontown This area has many Great shooter such as the likes of Kevin Polish jr Gold metalist KJ"s pro shop ,and many more who state champs. we take are archery to another level around hear. must be something in the water


----------



## asa3dpro

reylamb said:


> Mathews is not worried about loosing Levi.......
> 
> I mean, archerytalk is filled with sub 2" group at 100 yard shooters, they will have no problem filing his shoes.....just because they havent ever done it because they have no desire to compete...so what, Mathews will line their pockets with so much money, they will finally get to prove to the world they really do shoot sub 2" groups......
> 
> or something like that...


:sign10:
I nearly spit coffee all over my monitor with that one...


----------



## Bow-bow

I didn't know Levi was a local boy, that's cool. Good luck to him in whatever path he chooses, with his talent he can shoot anything and win.


----------



## nicko

Levi from "Amish Mafia"??? I never even saw him shoot a bow on that show.


----------



## dcaudle1

Buckin doe said:


> Levi is from my home town of Uniontown This area has many Great shooter such as the likes of Kevin Polish jr Gold metalist KJ"s pro shop ,and many more who state champs. we take are archery to another level around hear. must be something in the water


I thought Levi was from NC?


----------



## SHPoet

nicko said:


> Levi from "Amish Mafia"??? I never even saw him shoot a bow on that show.


:icon_1_lol:


----------



## SMshootsmathews

dcaudle1 said:


> I thought Levi was from NC?


He is. I think Samantha is from Uniontown...which is where they live now.


----------



## J-Daddy

I still think if you see anything other than a Mathews in Levi's hands next year it'll be a PSE...He tried to do that switch before and Matt stopped it "from what I hear", I'm betting he's sporting a Dominator next year "or whatever PSE's main target rig is next year".


----------



## ex-wolverine

I agree...

More tuning options on a hybrid or single cam bow than on a TWO track...Those guys are techies , and you are limited on a binary...or should I say less options...I know what I said will ruffle some feathers...Not that two tracks dont shoot well because they do...Thats just my two cents why most dont go there...its not about money because Elite has plenty



J-Daddy said:


> I still think if you see anything other than a Mathews in Levi's hands next year it'll be a PSE...He tried to do that switch before and Matt stopped it "from what I hear", I'm betting he's sporting a Dominator next year "or whatever PSE's main target rig is next year".


----------



## rodney482

At 1 time Elite made a single cam..

Maybe a new single cam target bow from Elite in 14.. With Levi shooting it.

You need to generate about 1000 bow sales to generate the funds to have a top 5 shooter.

I am saying that shooter has to bring in about 1000 more bow sales.







ex-wolverine said:


> I agree...
> 
> More tuning options on a hybrid or single cam bow than on a TWO track...Those guys are techies , and you are limited on a binary...or should I say less options...I know what I said will ruffle some feathers...Not that two tracks dont shoot well because they do...Thats just my two cents why most dont go there...its not about money because Elite has plenty


----------



## Jersey Ray

nicko said:


> Levi from "Amish Mafia"??? I never even saw him shoot a bow on that show.


No,Strauss silly........


----------



## ex-wolverine

Well he could do it thats for sure



rodney482 said:


> At 1 time Elite made a single cam..
> 
> Maybe a new single cam target bow from Elite in 14.. With Levi shooting it.
> 
> You need to generate about 7000 bow sales to generate the funds to have a top 5 shooter.
> 
> I am saying that shooter has to bring in about 7000 more bow sales.


----------



## -bowfreak-

That is a BUNCH of extra bows.....not a bunch for PSE, Hoyt, Mathews or Bowtech....probably not even Bear but just having machining capacity to sell that many more bows is no simple task. Seems it would be a much bigger commitment for the smaller guys than just shelling out money for a top shooter.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

ex-wolverine said:


> I agree...
> 
> More tuning options on a hybrid or single cam bow than on a TWO track...Those guys are techies , and you are limited on a binary...or should I say less options...I know what I said will ruffle some feathers...Not that two tracks dont shoot well because they do...Thats just my two cents why most dont go there...its not about money because Elite has plenty


I own an Elite and it doesn't ruffle my feathers at all. It's the truth.

That is the con to any 2 track bow made IMO. There is no ability to tune the bow to the shooter.


----------



## ridgehunter70

so, has anyone heard anything for sure yet about where levi is going to go?


----------



## javelin

ridgehunter70 said:


> so, has anyone heard anything for sure yet about where levi is going to go?


Just out today, he is going to retire from archery and is now training for the Winter X Games. He will continue to hunt and will be shooting a parker bow.


----------



## Jimspur

javelin said:


> Just out today, he is going to retire from archery and is now training for the Winter X Games. He will continue to hunt and will be shooting a parker bow.



I don't care who you are that's funny right there!


----------



## jimb

Whats wrong with Parker


----------



## jerrym

Shooter78 said:


> x2:***::bs:


x3; siasd


----------



## hawk45

If the manufacturer has to sell 1000 more bows a year to make up for the cost of a top 5 shooter, they better be able to provide 1000 more bows per year without slowing current production. Would that be a too big a jump for Elite to make being one of the smaller guys?


----------



## Jimspur

jimb said:


> Whats wrong with Parker



It's not the Parker part that's funny, it's the part that he's retiring and training for
the Winter X Games.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

jimb said:


> Whats wrong with Parker


Funniest post of the thread right there!!!!


----------



## meatmissile

nimh said:


> I doubt it simply cause elites target bows are not on the same level as matthews. If it was hoyt or pse then I might think its a possibility.


Lol just funny"!!

sent from my end of the woods


----------



## Wonderboy

Oh boy! If Mathews lost Levi and the respect of so many on this forum for the pro shop incident.......it's gonna hurt them. Not to mention, I'm sure they have a ton of fans from field and stream now......

Guess that ego has started to really brush against folks in the wrong way. 

IMO......I hope Levi leaves.........


----------



## bowtecha

hawk45 said:


> If the manufacturer has to sell 1000 more bows a year to make up for the cost of a top 5 shooter, they better be able to provide 1000 more bows per year without slowing current production. Would that be a too big a jump for Elite to make being one of the smaller guys?


Elite may be smaller than say Hoyt or Mathews but I would bet the farm that elite has the money to do it if needed.

Elite has gotten pretty dang big especially in the last year two years


----------



## OhioBuckHunterT

Wonderboy said:


> Oh boy! If Mathews lost Levi and the respect of so many on this forum for the pro shop incident.......it's gonna hurt them. Not to mention, I'm sure they have a ton of fans from field and stream now......
> 
> Guess that ego has started to really brush against folks in the wrong way.
> 
> IMO......I hope Levi leaves.........


pro shop incident ????? never heard anything about that on AT (LOL) :teeth:


----------



## TexasCanesFan

bowtecha said:


> Elite may be smaller than say Hoyt or Mathews but I would bet the farm that elite has the money to do it if needed.
> 
> Elite has gotten pretty dang big especially in the last year two years


I think Elite gets Levi. Just my opinion. Hope he has some input on a target bow like Cousins did with Prime.


----------



## bowtecha

TexasCanesFan said:


> I think Elite gets Levi. Just my opinion. H*ope he has some input on a target bow like Cousins did with Prime.*


amen brother, me as well...


----------



## genohuh

Levi isnt Going to Elite or PSE.. not enou!gh Money.. he will and is staying put! Money Money Money.. this is all fact! he will be signing a new Contract.. staying put


----------



## Scottie/PA

TexasCanesFan said:


> I think Elite gets Levi. Just my opinion. Hope he has some input on a target bow like Cousins did with Prime.


Elite will get him.



genohuh said:


> Levi isnt Going to Elite or PSE.. not enou!gh Money.. he will and is staying put! Money Money Money.. this is all fact! he will be signing a new Contract.. staying put


Wanna bet???


----------



## field14

I have it on a what I think is a pretty reliable source that Levi has switched over to Elite. But, really, how cares? That is Levi's business and Levi's decision and certainly not up to us. In addition, the terms of his contracts are between his sponsors and Levi and we really don't have any right to know those details. It isn't like he is on a "public" salary or something, haha.


----------



## ferretboy

Be that the case Tom, Tour sales are about to go through the roof.


----------



## genohuh

Lol yes i will bet!!


----------



## skiisme753

hawk45 said:


> If the manufacturer has to sell 1000 more bows a year to make up for the cost of a top 5 shooter, they better be able to provide 1000 more bows per year without slowing current production. Would that be a too big a jump for Elite to make being one of the smaller guys?


Exactly look at Prime who can't make bows fast enough. It takes time to increase production.


----------



## genohuh

Scottie/PA said:


> Elite
> 
> 
> Wanna bet???


Your correct actually.. they will.. alot of Money in Kentucky


----------



## bclowman

Well three of the guys that have said he was going never blow smoke.... So I starting think it is highly likely


----------



## mtn3531

ferretboy said:


> Be that the case Tom, Tour sales are about to go through the roof.


Doubtful


----------



## rodney482

field14 said:


> I have it on a what I think is a pretty reliable source that Levi has switched over to Elite. But, really, how cares? That is Levi's business and Levi's decision and certainly not up to us. In addition, the terms of his contracts are between his sponsors and Levi and we really don't have any right to know those details. It isn't like he is on a "public" salary or something, haha.


Who cares??? that right there is one of the reasons archery has never launched like other sports.... NO ONE CARES!... 

Other professional sports advertise what their players make... .Why? because it attracts an audience.

Maybe we better start caring ......


----------



## BeastofEast

Although levi will be making the switch I'm not putting down my mathews for a elite.


----------



## thencprince1515

Elite can't afford him and their target bows are not any good. Not a chance he will ever leave Mathews.


----------



## bows_-_arrows

Think of all the Mathews bows that will be for sale dirt cheap if he signs somewhere else......


----------



## ferretboy

For a pse representative, those were some fairly shallow remarks that you just made. Thankfully not many pay attention to you or some might be upset.


thencprince1515 said:


> Elite can't afford him and their target bows are not any good. Not a chance he will ever leave Mathews.


----------



## Predator

ferretboy said:


> For a pse representative, those were some fairly shallow remarks that you just made. Thankfully not many pay attention to you or some might be upset.


Shallow?

One might assume based on their level of bow sales that they can't afford him and it's common knowledge Elite has never really focused on target bows (and they are nowhere to be found in pro competition).

So you think because he's a PSE rep his comments should have more depth and not be so shallow? You think he should have intel on Elite as to their financial condition and whether or not they truly can afford Levi? And you think he should have the inside scoop on why Elite has not gone after the target market? Or why they are still using the inferior cam system they inherited from Strother?

Please.


----------



## Squirrel

Predator said:


> Shallow?
> 
> One might assume based on their level of bow sales that they can't afford him and it's common knowledge Elite has never really focused on target bows (and they are nowhere to be found in pro competition).
> 
> So you think because he's a PSE rep his comments should have more depth and not be so shallow? You think he should have intel on Elite as to their financial condition and whether or not they truly can afford Levi? And you think he should have the inside scoop on why Elite has not gone after the target market? Or why they are still using the inferior cam system they inherited from Strother?
> 
> Please.


It's called professionalism. As a rep for any company, you should sell your company and not bad mouth other companies. Regardless of the profession. To say "their target bows are not any good" is where he went wrong.


----------



## ferretboy

Nowhere to be found in competition? What bow does Dave Barnsdale shoot in competition? What bow does Kevin Koch shoot in competition? Just curious if you know. They do not pay shooters an immense money to shoot their bows, YET. That is why they do not have a huge number of professional shooting them. And yes it is funny that the man specifically said that their target bows aren't any good, that was just a slam period. Give me some educated number on bow sales and maybe I'll give creedence to what was said, until then it is just more of the usual hatespeak on AT. And when Levi doesn't have a Mathews in his hand next year, I'll be cook the crow for him. Dave Henderson


----------



## Predator

Squirrel said:


> It's called professionalism. As a rep for any company, you should sell your company and not bad mouth other companies. Regardless of the profession. To say "their target bows are not any good" is where he went wrong.


Ok, then say professionalism if that's what you feel. To say the comments were "shallow" didn't make any sense - implies that his comments should have had more depth. Sorry but the reality is "reps" from ALL of the bow companies bad mouth the other bow companies in various forums/settings. Welcome to reality - it's called competition.


----------



## Predator

ferretboy said:


> Nowhere to be found in competition? What bow does Dave Barnsdale shoot in competition? What bow does Kevin Koch shoot in competition? Just curious if you know. They do not pay shooters an immense money to shoot their bows, YET. That is why they do not have a huge number of professional shooting them. And yes it is funny that the man specifically said that their target bows aren't any good, that was just a slam period. Give me some educated number on bow sales and maybe I'll give creedence to what was said, until then it is just more of the usual hatespeak on AT. And when Levi doesn't have a Mathews in his hand next year, I'll be cook the crow for him. Dave Henderson


Yes, "nowhere". List me their podium representation compared to Hoyt, Mathews and PSE. Again, "nowhere" - and I would say the same of Bowtech - it just isn't their focus. Bow sales for Elite aren't public so none of us has exact numbers (one of my points on shallow vs depth) but I can assure you their numbers are a lot less than all of the companies I've listed above.


----------



## PFD42

Nowhere to be found in competition ? Grigs shoots Elite and did fairly well. Prime didn't have a true target bow until they got Dave and now they have the One. You bring a too pro into the company and research and development starts. With out a doubt if Levi goes to Elite, in the near future you will see a major change in the target bow lineup.


----------



## ferretboy

I used exactly the word that I wanted, and thank you.....b : lacking in depth of knowledge, thought, or feeling As quoted in the Merriam Webster Dictionary


----------



## lavazhole

Elite not having any money? They just bought how many companies?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## BeastofEast

Its a done deal already. Idk why your arguing over it.


----------



## Predator

PFD42 said:


> Nowhere to be found in competition ? Grigs shoots Elite and did fairly well. Prime didn't have a true target bow until they got Dave and now they have the One. You bring a too pro into the company and research and development starts. With out a doubt if Levi goes to Elite, in the near future you will see a major change in the target bow lineup.


Still nowhere on a relative basis IMO but maybe they are trying to get "somewhere". Listen, I could care less where Levi goes. I just didn't find the PSE guy's comment to be nearly as offensive as some of the girls on here that started crying when he made them.

I would love to see Elite gain a more meaningful status when it comes to bows and target archery. Competition benefits us all. They need to get rid of the binary cams though - they suck and frankly if you want a generic binary cam bow (cross your fingers you can tune it properly) you can flip a coin between Elite, Athens and Strother and Athens is probably the most impressive of the 3 in terms of materials and construction.


----------



## Viper69

Maybe Elite is letting Levi design his own signature target bow. That would help pay him


----------



## thencprince1515

ferretboy said:


> For a pse representative, those were some fairly shallow remarks that you just made. Thankfully not many pay attention to you or some might be upset.


The truth hurts.


----------



## mhill

thencprince1515 said:


> Elite can't afford him and their target bows are not any good. Not a chance he will ever leave Mathews.


Well if he does leave it probably will be for PSE. we know he is not going to Hoyt after what tim gillingham got paid for winning the IBO world championship. :thumbs_do IDK if elite has the money to pay him anything competitive to what Mathew pays him. Just basing that off the pictures from bowjunky of Levi earnings for making podium.


----------



## mhill

Viper69 said:


> Maybe Elite is letting Levi design his own signature target bow. That would help pay him


That would be sick!


----------



## rattlinman

mhill said:


> Well if he does leave it probably will be for PSE. we know he is not going to Hoyt after what tim gillingham got paid for winning the IBO world championship. :thumbs_do IDK if elite has the money to pay him anything competitive to what Mathew pays him. Just basing that off the pictures from bowjunky of Levi earnings for making podium.


This is a valid point that a lot of folks are missing. At the end of the day, how any change will affect his salary will be the deciding factor ABOVE the manufacturer of the bow. The Drury Bros only left Hoyt when the money was better from PSE (and to have their own signature line of bows).

If the money is there, he will go. I'd love to see him continue with Mathews, but he knows his shelf life at the top is limited by age and I can't blame him for going where the money is now. I don't wonder if Elite really has the money, even with the purchase of Scott and CBE. That was a big expenditure out of their purse and I doubt they have made it up yet in profits....

The big question will be if he does switch: Can he still win consistently with a BINARY cam? It will be interesting because his winnings are also a big part of his salary..........


----------



## nhns4

It's a done deal.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

nhns4 said:


> It's a done deal.


Que way?


Blace


----------



## hunt123

nhns4 said:


> It's a done deal.


So where can we see something official on it other than hearsay?


----------



## 4IDARCHER

I think Levi will will/has switch over to Elite. I also think the money he lost by leaving Mathews was more than made up for by UA. Have you seen the huge increase of UA product placement in this season’s shows? I think he must have reworked that contract to make up for the loss he was to take at Mathews. I also wonder how the switch will go from what is the opposites in the wall and stops from a cam perspective. Good luck to him. I always like to see guys with a competitive history have hunting shows. They usually bring in a technical aspect that most other shows miss.


----------



## Beentown

TexasCanesFan said:


> I like Elite bows but HATE the crazy low holding weights. Just an awful thing for countless reasons. I have to set the all at 80% or shorter to make them work for me.


Me too....that is a reason I like my PRIME.


----------



## nhns4

hunt123 said:


> So where can we see something official on it other than hearsay?


Come back to my post in a about a month. So you can tell me I was correct haha


----------



## Beentown

Viper69 said:


> Maybe Elite is letting Levi design his own signature target bow. That would help pay him


Kinda like what PRIME did with their target bow...the ONE.


----------



## Scott Bennett

It is OFFICIAL....











Levi will be shooting a bow new year. 

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


----------



## RSTV

Buckin doe said:


> Levi is from my home town of Uniontown This area has many Great shooter such as the likes of Kevin Polish jr Gold metalist KJ"s pro shop ,and many more who state champs. we take are archery to another level around hear. must be something in the water


so if someone moves to Pa , they are from there? lol


----------



## 3-D Junkie

Garceau said:


> I'd bet a soda he is not with Mathews next year


I'd take that bet Garceau. I'll be in Fl to pay up if I lose. Is it a bet?

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## RSTV

Levi is with Elite now. 

Count on it being true.


----------



## NY911

"I'm just a baby Dad. Just a baby". 


Sent from a Double Bull Blind waiting on a long beard.


----------



## JeffShrugged

I don't understand what Hoyt is playing at. Would they rather see nothing but PSE, Mathews and Elite shirts at all these shoots? It would be cool if Levi were to start shooting a Pro Comp Elite but I guess that will not happen thanks to Hoyt's ever diminishing contingency payouts. Unless that is changing, perhaps?


----------



## RSTV

i just posted he is with ELITE. Not a joke! 

lol


----------



## 3-D Junkie

Didn't we go through this stuff last year about Levi and PSE? I don't get too wrapped up in the business of people who don't effect me. Levi is a great shooter, definately one of the best ever. He's also a really nice guy, and I hope the best for him and his family. However I don't make it a point to stalk his business. Off the top of my head I can't imagine what could motivate him to leave Mathews, but I am not Levi Morgan. If he does leave it is for his own reasons, and he will be successful, no matter who he shoots for.
I would hope it won't, but I know it will, turn into a "Mathews Sucks Because Levi Left" topic of conversation on AT. Lets keep in mind that Levi's sponsors have helped get him to where he is now. Even sponsors he no longer shoots for. 
I think if he will be successful no matter what he does, because he is very dedicated, and grounded. Of one thing you can be absolutely sure...... he won't be on Facebook and AT bashing Mathews if there is a decision to part ways, because he is a true professional.


----------



## rodney482

trucker3573 said:


> I find it hilarious that people don't think he could shoot an elite every bit as a good as a Mathews....please! This isn't rocket science flying to the moon...its compound bows and these guys plain and simple are shooting whoever will pay the coin!
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


right on..... ^^^^^^ 

actually quite funny that shooters think 1 bow brand is more accurate than another. ( must be years of brain washing)


----------



## Shooter78

RSTV said:


> i just posted he is with ELITE. Not a joke!
> 
> lol


Any Proof?? :mg:


----------



## SonnyThomas

bows_-_arrows said:


> Think of all the Mathews bows that will be for sale dirt cheap if he signs somewhere else......


More than half shooting a Mathews doesn't know who Levi is, not alone that he's shot a Mathews for X number of years. Same with Jeff H. Hardly any one at a club 3D knows who he is. I know Jeff. He was noted as the first archer to win over $1,000,000.00 through shooting a bow. Been around forever, still relative young, and still one that you best not mess up or he'll be #1 on the podium. 

Having been a Hoyt fan I couldn't tell you who was who except for Randy Ulmer...Well, and Earl Hoyt. And no longer a Hoyt fan I don't know who is shooting what...Well, Danny Evans. Nice kid and pretty good shooter. Now here's a shooter that stayed with Hoyt on his own terms. I like that.... Hope Hoyt gets back in the mix of things. 

And you have to admit, bowhunters don't shoot target bows. If it ain't short it ain't a hunting bow, don't cha know?

And if hunting bows are where the $$$$ are, how come them Pros ain't shooting them? No, why aren't Pros made to shoot them. Just seems right that if they were to shoot hunting bows then we'd have a more clear view of what hunting bow is "Lord King of the Manner."

Then we've got that guy....Grizzly Adams....??? No, John Quincy....No, Chuck, that stalks the world over with that 40 plus in ata bow. (No joke, I had to Google Chuck to make sure it was Chuck.) One of these days he might be as good as Howard Hill. 

If Levi is leaving Mathews I can't see it being for money...unless it's half again what he gets now. Aint' he made $1M yet?

On the outside looking in, yeah, I could see Pete S. going for Levi. Two trump cards are better than one, Chance and Levi....

Rambled enough for the time being.... Not quite...I've seen 4 Elite bows this year, couple just this Sunday. One I'd like to "tune" so I wouldn't come in 2nd again (groan!). Twice this year, same person, same bow. Hi, KK! Was nice shootin' with ya....


----------



## carlosii

NY911 said:


> "I'm just a baby Dad. Just a baby".
> 
> 
> Sent from a Double Bull Blind waiting on a long beard.


after about the 20th time of seeing that i now skip the ad...see, i record the show.


----------



## carlosii

i'm sittin' here tryin' to think of someone who switched brands...i mean somebody who switched while at the top of their game and was still able to stay on top. i can't think of any. somebody wanna step up and post an example? maybe brands do make a difference.


----------



## nhns4

carlosii said:


> i'm sittin' here tryin' to think of someone who switched brands...i mean somebody who switched while at the top of their game and was still able to stay on top. i can't think of any. somebody wanna step up and post an example? maybe brands do make a difference.


Brett Favre lol


----------



## SPEED FREAK

Who cares really? Alot of man love goin on for one guy.lmao


----------



## RSTV

Shooter78 said:


> Any Proof?? :mg:


None that I'm posting on here. 

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BeastofEast

And I believe I posted it awhile back in the $$ thread about levi as well in this thread. So yea


----------



## Shooter78

RSTV said:


> None that I'm posting on here.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


 Touché sir... touché. haha :darkbeer:


----------



## rodney482

confirmed.......... :thumb:


----------



## rattlinman

4IDARCHER said:


> I think Levi will will/has switch over to Elite. I also think the money he lost by leaving Mathews was more than made up for by UA. Have you seen the huge increase of UA product placement in this season’s shows? I think he must have reworked that contract to make up for the loss he was to take at Mathews. I also wonder how the switch will go from what is the opposites in the wall and stops from a cam perspective. Good luck to him. I always like to see guys with a competitive history have hunting shows. They usually bring in a technical aspect that most other shows miss.


Now this could be true, UA is definitely established themselves in the hunting market. They easily could've surpassed and made up for the difference.



rodney482 said:


> right on..... ^^^^^^
> 
> actually quite funny that shooters think 1 bow brand is more accurate than another. ( must be years of brain washing)


Actually,years of shooting many different brands of bows with different brace heights, grip styles, cam styles, and ata lengths has taught target archers what it takes to consistently place the arrow in the X or 12 ring.

If you think all bows are created equal as far as accuracy and consistency, then maybe you are the one with years of brainwashing. :wink:

As far as accuracy and consistency, anyone who doesn't think Hoyt's bow design isn't more accurate than probably all brands out there has their head in the sand! Waay too many Olympic and Professional archers around the world pick their bows for a reason....and it ain't brand loyalty!! But for me, the C4 has been the most accurate bow I have ever shot, period.


----------



## Bucks

anyone have a link to a press release or something?


----------



## reylamb

carlosii said:


> i'm sittin' here tryin' to think of someone who switched brands...i mean somebody who switched while at the top of their game and was still able to stay on top. i can't think of any. somebody wanna step up and post an example? maybe brands do make a difference.


Chance did fairly well with a Hoyt....and has done ok with a PSE.....or maybe a little better than fair and ok with both brands....

Braden has done well with Hoyt and Mathews.

Tim G......didn't exactly drop off the face of the earth with a Hoyt in his hands.....

I even think Hoppy can be listed as one that did well with different brands. If I am not mistaken he started with Jennings before jumping to Mathews...


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> Now this could be true, UA is definitely established themselves in the hunting market. They easily could've surpassed and made up for the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually,years of shooting many different brands of bows with different brace heights, grip styles, cam styles, and ata lengths has taught target archers what it takes to consistently place the arrow in the X or 12 ring.
> 
> If you think all bows are created equal as far as accuracy and consistency, then maybe you are the one with years of brainwashing. :wink:
> 
> As far as accuracy and consistency, anyone who doesn't think Hoyt's bow design isn't more accurate than probably all brands out there has their head in the sand! Waay too many Olympic and Professional archers around the world pick their bows for a reason....and it ain't brand loyalty!! But for me, the C4 has been the most accurate bow I have ever shot, period.


Johnny - you with all this logic and common sense. That will not be tolerated!!!


----------



## darton3d

carlosii said:


> i'm sittin' here tryin' to think of someone who switched brands...i mean somebody who switched while at the top of their game and was still able to stay on top. i can't think of any. somebody wanna step up and post an example? maybe brands do make a difference.


Randy Ulmer switched from High Country to PSE and did well. And he seems to do fairly well with a Hoyt. 
Randy Chapel also went from High Country to PSE and did well. I think he shot the first 400 IBO score(before 11's) with a PSE.
Jeff Hopkins started with Jennings, then to Mathews. 
Braden Gallenthein went from Hoyt to Mathews, and I think Roger Willet may have done the opposite.


----------



## rackmup65

A few folks have elluded to a lawsuit initiated By Mathews to force Levi to honor his contract. What is the story on that? I would have to think that if I were Levi, I would move on when the chance presented itself...


----------



## maxxis88

rodney482 said:


> confirmed.......... :thumb:


Where. No holding out on us!


----------



## Wulfwick

aren't the new contracts dated September 1st?


----------



## rodney482

rattlinman said:


> Now this could be true, UA is definitely established themselves in the hunting market. They easily could've surpassed and made up for the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually,years of shooting many different brands of bows with different brace heights, grip styles, cam styles, and ata lengths has taught target archers what it takes to consistently place the arrow in the X or 12 ring.
> 
> If you think all bows are created equal as far as accuracy and consistency, then maybe you are the one with years of brainwashing. :wink:
> 
> As far as accuracy and consistency, anyone who doesn't think Hoyt's bow design isn't more accurate than probably all brands out there has their head in the sand! Waay too many Olympic and Professional archers around the world pick their bows for a reason....and it ain't brand loyalty!! But for me, the C4 has been the most accurate bow I have ever shot, period.


Take any top end target bow and place it in a hooter shooter,,,and shoot it at 20 yds... it will smash X after X.

Its the shooter not the bow.... Just like golf clubs...


----------



## field14

darton3d said:


> Randy Ulmer switched from High Country to PSE and did well. And he seems to do fairly well with a Hoyt.
> Randy Chapel also went from High Country to PSE and did well. I think he shot the first 400 IBO score(before 11's) with a PSE.
> Jeff Hopkins started with Jennings, then to Mathews.
> Braden Gallenthein went from Hoyt to Mathews, and I think Roger Willet may have done the opposite.


Randy Ulmer also did very well shooting a Browning bow, too. 
Tim Gillingham shot for Mathews for years and switched to Hoyt and is shooting better than ever. There are others that switched from Mathews to other brands are are shooting better as well.
I know that a few years ago, when Mathews pulled their contingency monies for SENIOR Pros, several senior pros switched to Hoyt and are doing just fine with that brand.

Once the bow is set to fit the individual, these guys will shoot them as good, and most better than their previous "selection." Sometimes, when companies don't come up with anything new/improved, things stagnate. Then, individuals shooting for them don't do as well, and they see the light and make the move as soon as it opens up to them. 
Of course, their reasons for the switch monetary or not are none of our business.

I thought the "Mathews controversy" with regard to Levi was something like 2-3 years ago? I would think that this time, the contract was indeed "up" and Levi made the switch.


----------



## Wonderboy

rackmup65 said:


> A few folks have elluded to a lawsuit initiated By Mathews to force Levi to honor his contract. What is the story on that? I would have to think that if I were Levi, I would move on when the chance presented itself...


I'd find it hard to work for someone who has sued me. Talk about a bad taste in your mouth, and swallowing pride. I bet that was a tough pill to swallow.


----------



## sagecreek

I predict Levi's scores will average 20 points higher shooting an Elite.

Watch out to everybody else, unless they are shooting an Elite also. lain:


----------



## rodney482

maxxis88 said:


> Where. No holding out on us!


Confirmed through my resources.


----------



## field14

Wonderboy said:


> I'd find it hard to work for someone who has sued me. Talk about a bad taste in your mouth, and swallowing pride. I bet that was a tough pill to swallow.


USAF AND NAVY EMERGENCY PROCEDURE: "BAIL OUT, BAIL OUT, BAIL OUT!" First chance you get, if you don't, you may not make it out.


----------



## J-Daddy

rackmup65 said:


> A few folks have elluded to a lawsuit initiated By Mathews to force Levi to honor his contract. What is the story on that? I would have to think that if I were Levi, I would move on when the chance presented itself...


I don't think but a handful of people really know for sure and they ain't posting it on here.... The way it was stated on here is that Levi & Sam were leaving the big M for PSE... They cut a deal with Pete & PSE and it was a go "seems that they also cut a deal with Mossy Oak about the same time which would have made sense", but they were still under contract @ Mathews and Matt stepped in and told them if they broke contract they'd be in trouble... So they didn't do it.
That's kind of the short & skinny of the AT version of the Levi, PSE, Mathews deal from a year or so ago... Who knows what really happened though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## -bowfreak-

sagecreek said:


> I predict Levi's scores will average 20 points higher shooting an Elite.
> 
> Watch out to everybody else, unless they are shooting an Elite also. lain:


I think this is just about as likely as his scores dropping 20 points.

I am not so sure it matters at all for guys like Levi. They can shoot anything. The rest of us....it matters a little more.


----------



## bowfisher

rodney482 said:


> Take any top end target bow and place it in a hooter shooter,,,and shoot it at 20 yds... it will smash X after X.
> 
> Its the shooter not the bow.... Just like golf clubs...


Yes, in a hooter shooter, but in the hands of a human there are some desighns that are more forgiving than others.


----------



## rodney482

bowfisher said:


> Yes, in a hooter shooter, but in the hands of a human there are some desighns that are more forgiving than others.


This is just personal preference. Some designs will shoot better for some people.


Like a hard wall, some guys love them and some hate them.


I dont believe there is 1 design that is far better than the rest for everyone.


----------



## rackmup65

J-Daddy said:


> I don't think but a handful of people really know for sure and they ain't posting it on here.... The way it was stated on here is that Levi & Sam were leaving the big M for PSE... They cut a deal with Pete & PSE and it was a go "seems that they also cut a deal with Mossy Oak about the same time which would have made sense", but they were still under contract @ Mathews and Matt stepped in and told them if they broke contract they'd be in trouble... So they didn't do it.
> That's kind of the short & skinny of the AT version of the Levi, PSE, Mathews deal from a year or so ago... Who knows what really happened though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the rundown...


----------



## rattlinman

TexasCanesFan said:


> Johnny - you with all this logic and common sense. That will not be tolerated!!!


logic and common sense on AT? No way!!! lol



bowfisher said:


> Yes, in a hooter shooter, but in the hands of a human there are some desighns that are more forgiving than others.


Exactly, if we could all shoot as well as a hooter shooter.....



rodney482 said:


> This is just personal preference. Some designs will shoot better for some people.
> 
> 
> Like a hard wall, some guys love them and some hate them.
> 
> 
> I dont believe there is 1 design that is far better than the rest for everyone.


Call it personal preference or overall design, but some bows are just more forgiving than others, making them more accurate consistently. If the top two bow companies producing target bows are producing those type of specs, then yes, their bows will be more accurate to the majority of shooters, therefore they make a more accurate bow.


----------



## rodney482

99.9 Shooter...... all day, everyday! Levi will win with whatever he shoots.. and that is the bottom line.

how was the overall design on the Triumph?








rattlinman said:


> logic and common sense on AT? No way!!! lol
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, if we could all shoot as well as a hooter shooter.....
> 
> 
> 
> Call it personal preference or overall design, but some bows are just more forgiving than others, making them more accurate consistently. If the top two bow companies producing target bows are producing those type of specs, then yes, their bows will be more accurate to the majority of shooters, therefore they make a more accurate bow.


----------



## Beentown

rodney482 said:


> 99.9 Shooter...... all day, everyday! Levi will win with whatever he shoots.. and that is the bottom line.
> 
> how was the overall design on the Triumph?


I think the style of stops would/could make a difference. I believe he is a hinge shooter so a little give goes a long way.


----------



## nhns4

Beentown said:


> I think the style of stops would/could make a difference. I believe he is a hinge shooter so a little give goes a long way.


Wouldn't take much for them to have something that isn't limb stops as an option I'd think


----------



## rattlinman

rodney482 said:


> 99.9 Shooter...... all day, everyday! Levi will win with whatever he shoots.. and that is the bottom line.
> 
> how was the overall design on the Triumph?


Great point, the Triumph was built just like every other bow on the market, it had cams, strings, limbs, and a riser, by your logic, every Mathews Pro should be shooting it. Yet the Pros hated it and almost refused to shoot it. Most are still shooting the Apex or C4... so if all bows are the same and it's 99% shooter, then why aren't the Pros shooting it? Because it was not as forgiving and not consistently accurate.

Back to you Bob


----------



## Double B

I bet he's sitting at home reading this and laughing his tail off that everyone is so concerned about what he shoots. Give the kid a break and let him enjoy himself


----------



## rossi9s

Double B said:


> I bet he's sitting at home reading this and laughing his tail off that everyone is so concerned about what he shoots. Give the kid a break and let him enjoy himself


thank you....


----------



## bwhnter4life

Double B said:


> I bet he's sitting at home reading this and laughing his tail off that everyone is so concerned about what he shoots. Give the kid a break and let him enjoy himself



If he is doing anything, he is covering back up with his 100 dollar bills keeping himself warm....because this publicity has to be helping his stock....IF WE care this much.......Im sure the bow companies will notice....


----------



## SHPoet

Maybe the mods need to start another forum....

"The Jock Sniffer Discussions".....


----------



## Vector3270

I predict whatever happens Jesse Broadwater whoops his butt next year!


----------



## Beastmaster

I can guarantee that Levi is laughing at this whole thread.


----------



## crazyhoyt

I hope whatever he shoots he continues to dominate. He is a great ambassador for our sport, and lives the hunting lifestyle as so many of us do. I hope things work out good for him.


----------



## NTProf

double b said:


> i bet he's sitting at home reading this and laughing his tail off that everyone is so concerned about what he shoots. Give the kid a break and let him enjoy himself


yep!!!


----------



## rutjunky

Who is Elite and what is Levi?


----------



## Viper69

I dont care what he shoots. All I know is the kid can shoot!


----------



## rodney482

Kind of surprizes me that you guys are hush hush.. Give him privacy.. No $$$ should be discussed... Blah blah.


What other pro sport keeps $$$ hush hush??? Ummmm none.


Maybe if $$$$ was discussed more the sport would actually grow.


----------



## Beastmaster

rodney482 said:


> Kind of surprizes me that you guys are hush hush.. Give him privacy.. No $$$ should be discussed... Blah blah.
> What other pro sport keeps $$$ hush hush??? Ummmm none.
> Maybe if $$$$ was discussed more the sport would actually grow.


The issue is that until archery becomes a business in the model of what we see in baseball/basketball/football/soccer, we won't see the level of growth.

-Steve


----------



## NY911

rodney482 said:


> Kind of surprizes me that you guys are hush hush.. Give him privacy.. No $$$ should be discussed... Blah blah.
> 
> 
> What other pro sport keeps $$$ hush hush??? Ummmm none.
> 
> 
> Maybe if $$$$ was discussed more the sport would actually grow.



Good Lord knows how easy it is for people to find out OUR salaries! LOL


----------



## rodney482

A big part of that is big $$$$ won or paid.







Beastmaster said:


> The issue is that until archery becomes a business in the model of what we see in baseball/basketball/football/soccer, we won't see the level of growth.
> 
> -Steve


----------



## rodney482

NY911 said:


> Good Lord knows how easy it is for people to find out OUR salaries! LOL


No doubt


----------



## indyarcher

A little late in the post, but Reo shot Martin before he switched to Hoyt


----------



## ex-wolverine

If nothing else it will be Helping Elites Stock



bwhnter4life said:


> because this publicity has to be helping his stockQUOTE]


----------



## bowtechnow

Double B said:


> I bet he's sitting at home reading this and laughing his tail off that everyone is so concerned about what he shoots. Give the kid a break and let him enjoy himself


Amen.


----------



## -bowfreak-

NY911 said:


> Good Lord knows how easy it is for people to find out OUR salaries! LOL


The municipality I work for posted them in the newspaper many years ago.


----------



## NY911

-bowfreak- said:


> The municipality I work for posted them in the newspaper many years ago.


Every year...which usually coincides with an article about overpaid public safety workers or pension padding.....


----------



## -bowfreak-

NY911 said:


> Every year...which usually coincides with an article about overpaid public safety workers or pension padding.....


I realize we are public servants but if someone truly wants to know that bad....let them go research it themselves.

But....If I made the money that Rodney did I would just pay someone to remind me not to read the paper that day. :wink:


----------



## hphunter

What Levi gets paid is available to any shareholder of any company for which he shoots. SEC law. Rodney is 100 percent correct, show the money and more will come and the money paid will grow. It would be great to have kids aspire to be a world class outdoorsperson. Last I checked a baseball football or basketball was still cheap to buy. It's just the cost to attend the event that goes up in price.


----------



## NY911

-bowfreak- said:


> I realize we are public servants but if someone truly wants to know that bad....let them go research it themselves.
> 
> But....If I made the money that Rodney did I would just pay someone to remind me not to read the paper that day. :wink:


Word....Rodney = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ LOL


----------



## hookemaster19

Well like so many have already said, every year there is a Levi rumor floating around.im know archery Guru by no meens but my buddy works for a local shop in Mich. who sells Mathews and they heard that Levi does have room in his contract at this point to jump ship if he wanted to. With that being said him and his wife's tv show didn't Air with all the new shows starting here in the last few weeks cause of what is going on behind the scene. Now I don't know how that would all play out cause these shows are 2012 kills and he and Samantha would have been using Mathews equipment. So like every year we will all Wait......


----------



## RSTV

His show has been on every Friday night. 

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hrtlnd164

Not sure about Levi but I did notice Darrin C. 's photo is no longer in the Mathews Pro Staff pictures on their web site.


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Griggs is stealing them all away! Leviticus is not saying anything. He would be an asset to any company he shoots for. So would Christenberry. Both are personable and down to earth in my experience.

I tell you what, I believe the following matters more than what he shoots, quoted from a post he made on AT;

"Hey Guys Levi here...I havent read every single post on this thread but I did want to say something...I was raised in church my whole life and I had God fearing parents who raised me right and taught me right from wrong. I sat in church every Sunday morning Night and Wednesday nights, but the fact is that didnt make me any better than any one else or change the end result of where I was headed. I was a sinner just like everyone else and will always be a sinner as will we all. I had never felt God move in my life because I had never accepted Him in my heart. I sat there in church numb to the fact the God even existed for years and years hearing the truth and rejecting it and thinking that these people(Christians) must be crazy to be so excited over something that you cant even see. It was 2009 I had been under conviction and running from God since I was 18. I knew I needed God in my life and I was miserable with no real happiness in my heart. I was winning tournaments left and right but couldnt even enjoy that. I would lay in bed afraid to go to sleep at night because I knew where I was going if I didnt wake up. I was at the Augusta Ga ASA shoot on april 28 2009 and I won the final arrow shoot off for the win but all I could think of was getting home to the revival that was going on. I couldnt take living miserable anymore and I had to do something about it. I remember sitting there thru that service monday night April 29th, 2009 waiting on the invitation so I could make things right in my heart. That night I accepted Jesus in my life and gave Him full control and begged Him to forgive my of my sins and I truly 100% believe that He did. The peace that came over me that night was so incredible and the change in my heart towards God. It made me want to be a better Husband and just a better man in general and I have watched God move and felt God move in my life so many times since then and I have a personal relationship with Him and I know He is real. I do however know how some of you dont believe because youve never gave Him the chance to work in your life. He gave us the choice to believe what we want to believe and we dont have to accept Him in our lives but why would anyone turn down the most free and perfect gift there has ever been, ETERNAL LIFE. You cant always see Gods work but the ones who have truly accepted Him can feel it. This is why I Thank God every chance I get for every thing I have. I dont deserve any of it and I know that the bible says "every good and perfect gift cometh from above" and I believe that. Who am i to take credit for something that was given to me. I agree that there are lots of people that say one thing and do another and as Christians we need to look more closely at ourselves sometimes and the effect we are having with our actions and I'm as guilty as anyone but that fact is when you are saved that doesnt make you perfect or mean you will never do wrong again. It means that Jesus is now in our hearts and that we should bear that fruit and let people see Him in our lives... The flesh that we live live in isnt perfect and I'm as bad as anyone but I have a peace in my heart that I wouldnt trade for anything in the world! Sorry for the long post but I wanted you guys and girls to know why I thank God every day and why I love Him so much. He changed my life!!! "


----------



## EMC686

I was fortunate enough to spend a couple of days with Levi last week, we even went out to the archery range. I don't care which bow company he chooses. I just wish him the best in all of his endeavors. He is one of the most personable and humble persons I know. He is a great ambassador to our sports of hunting and archery. He will do very well with any company he chooses to partner with at this time. On a side note, we had a little competition at the range, with Levi shooting against some of those sub 2" 100 yd shooters. He shot his hunting bow and beat the top backyard shooter by 28 points on 13 targets. It was a fun thing to behold. He did it in the most humble manner that I have ever seen, not a sign of arrogance whatsoever. We all had a blast. Best of luck to him and his family.


----------



## mtn3531

hphunter said:


> What Levi gets paid is available to any shareholder of any company for which he shoots. SEC law. Rodney is 100 percent correct, show the money and more will come and the money paid will grow. It would be great to have kids aspire to be a world class outdoorsperson. Last I checked a baseball football or basketball was still cheap to buy. It's just the cost to attend the event that goes up in price.


That's funny, most archery companies are privately owned with no stockholders so they don't have to disclose anything.


----------



## hphunter

mtn3531 said:


> That's funny, most archery companies are privately owned with no stockholders so they don't have to disclose anything.


Privately owned doesn't mean that they don't have shareholders it just means that they are not publically traded. If they have more than 20-25 investors or over a certain number of investors are not in the same state then they still have to follow SEC rules for closely held companies. Any of those investors is entitled to an annual report, profit and loss statements and all financial by law state or federal. All any one of those shareholders has to do is ask. Wether or not they chose to disclose is a choice. 

If you for a second think that one of the large 5 archery companies is 100 percent family owned and doesn't receive any outside investment support from large investors well you need a life lesson in high finance.


----------



## brifish

nimh said:


> I doubt it simply cause elites target bows are not on the same level as matthews. If it was hoyt or pse then I might think its a possibility.


really???... you are saying that an elite tour isn't on the same level as a mathew. And here i thought it was more shooter than bow, and just stir it up what has mathews brought to the table in the last few years in the target bow line.


----------



## 3-D Junkie

Here we go......:banghead:

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Crow Terminator

I bet a coke cola at the next ASA shoot that Levi will be sporting a new bow sponsor for 2014. Elite wouldn't surprise me one bit...they have the money. And not just him, but other big names. Wouldn't surprise me to see some long time folks making moves to PSE from Hoyt...just due to contingency money. It has to really suck when the 2nd and 3rd place guys are getting more from their particular bow sponsor than the guy that wins 1st.


----------



## bigbucks170

Can not see him shooting for a Company that's Motto is Respect the Game not the Game Laws...


----------



## SPEED FREAK

You guys slobber over this guy like he is god..Who cares who goes where.Is he your hero or something?Levi isnt going to help Elite's stock other than a few of his derranged stalkers following him by buying the Elite brand.Their sales arent hurting at all.With him or without him.


----------



## dschonbrun

I haven't asked for a definitive response from Bobby V, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's got a Supra Max or Dominator Max sitting in his truck right now.


----------



## Lazarus

Alpha Burnt said:


> Griggs is stealing them all away! Leviticus is not saying anything. He would be an asset to any company he shoots for. So would Christenberry. Both are personable and down to earth in my experience.
> 
> I tell you what, I believe the following matters more than what he shoots, quoted from a post he made on AT;
> 
> "Hey Guys Levi here...I havent read every single post on this thread but I did want to say something...I was raised in church my whole life and I had God fearing parents who raised me right and taught me right from wrong. I sat in church every Sunday morning Night and Wednesday nights, but the fact is that didnt make me any better than any one else or change the end result of where I was headed. I was a sinner just like everyone else and will always be a sinner as will we all. I had never felt God move in my life because I had never accepted Him in my heart. I sat there in church numb to the fact the God even existed for years and years hearing the truth and rejecting it and thinking that these people(Christians) must be crazy to be so excited over something that you cant even see. It was 2009 I had been under conviction and running from God since I was 18. I knew I needed God in my life and I was miserable with no real happiness in my heart. I was winning tournaments left and right but couldnt even enjoy that. I would lay in bed afraid to go to sleep at night because I knew where I was going if I didnt wake up. I was at the Augusta Ga ASA shoot on april 28 2009 and I won the final arrow shoot off for the win but all I could think of was getting home to the revival that was going on. I couldnt take living miserable anymore and I had to do something about it. I remember sitting there thru that service monday night April 29th, 2009 waiting on the invitation so I could make things right in my heart. That night I accepted Jesus in my life and gave Him full control and begged Him to forgive my of my sins and I truly 100% believe that He did. The peace that came over me that night was so incredible and the change in my heart towards God. It made me want to be a better Husband and just a better man in general and I have watched God move and felt God move in my life so many times since then and I have a personal relationship with Him and I know He is real. I do however know how some of you dont believe because youve never gave Him the chance to work in your life. He gave us the choice to believe what we want to believe and we dont have to accept Him in our lives but why would anyone turn down the most free and perfect gift there has ever been, ETERNAL LIFE. You cant always see Gods work but the ones who have truly accepted Him can feel it. This is why I Thank God every chance I get for every thing I have. I dont deserve any of it and I know that the bible says "every good and perfect gift cometh from above" and I believe that. Who am i to take credit for something that was given to me. I agree that there are lots of people that say one thing and do another and as Christians we need to look more closely at ourselves sometimes and the effect we are having with our actions and I'm as guilty as anyone but that fact is when you are saved that doesnt make you perfect or mean you will never do wrong again. It means that Jesus is now in our hearts and that we should bear that fruit and let people see Him in our lives... The flesh that we live live in isnt perfect and I'm as bad as anyone but I have a peace in my heart that I wouldnt trade for anything in the world! Sorry for the long post but I wanted you guys and girls to know why I thank God every day and why I love Him so much. He changed my life!!! "


Thank you for sharing that. I hadn't seen that. I'm going to share that with my two boys who are both new Christians. 

Wherever he lands I wish him the best. He is as good an ambassador for the sport as the sport could ask for.


----------



## bigbucks170

SPEED FREAK said:


> You guys slobber over this guy like he is god..Who cares who goes where.Is he your hero or something?Levi isnt going to help Elite's stock other than a few of his derranged stalkers following him by buying the Elite brand.Their sales arent hurting at all.With him or without him.


Jealous that no one cares what you shoot? or post ?


----------



## sagecreek

SPEED FREAK said:


> You guys slobber over this guy like he is god..Who cares who goes where.Is he your hero or something?Levi isnt going to help Elite's stock other than a few of his derranged stalkers following him by buying the Elite brand.Their sales arent hurting at all.With him or without him.


What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. lain:


----------



## EMC686

SPEED FREAK said:


> You guys slobber over this guy like he is god..Who cares who goes where.Is he your hero or something?Levi isnt going to help Elite's stock other than a few of his derranged stalkers following him by buying the Elite brand.Their sales arent hurting at all.With him or without him.


I don't think he's God. However, I do like the fact that he gives credit for the gifts he has been blessed to have. I am proud of all of my friends and their accomplishments. Levi just happens to be one of them and yes, I am proud of and happy for him.


----------



## >--gt-->

hphunter said:


> If you for a second think that one of the large 5 archery companies is 100 percent family owned and doesn't receive any outside investment support from large investors well you need a life lesson in high finance.


Easton and Hoyt are 100% family owned.


----------



## mtn3531

hphunter said:


> Privately owned doesn't mean that they don't have shareholders it just means that they are not publically traded. If they have more than 20-25 investors or over a certain number of investors are not in the same state then they still have to follow SEC rules for closely held companies. Any of those investors is entitled to an annual report, profit and loss statements and all financial by law state or federal. All any one of those shareholders has to do is ask. Wether or not they chose to disclose is a choice.
> 
> If you for a second think that one of the large 5 archery companies is 100 percent family owned and doesn't receive any outside investment support from large investors well you need a life lesson in high finance.


I don't need any life lessons in high finance or in how the SEC works. They don't owe anyone in the archery community a report on sales, salaries etc etc unless it's directly to their outside investors, if any, and if they decide they want to disclose the information that's their decision. It's none of my business, or yours what these companies sales or salaries are unless you decide to invest some of your life lesson money in said company.


----------



## hphunter

mtn3531 said:


> I don't need any life lessons in high finance or in how the SEC works. They don't owe anyone in the archery community a report on sales, salaries etc etc unless it's directly to their outside investors, if any, and if they decide they want to disclose the information that's their decision. It's none of my business, or yours what these companies sales or salaries are unless you decide to invest some of your life lesson money in said company.


Correct and I don't care what who makes. 

My point was that its very easy to get disclosure on a salary and that there is likely someone that could disclose that on this forum if they saw fit.


----------



## hphunter

>--gt--> said:


> Easton and Hoyt are 100% family owned.


Family owned doesn't mean that they do not have outside investors to which they would have to provide disclosure. Hell they have dealers and it may even be part of providing a dealer an accounting as part of the dealer contract so that the dealer is under full disclosure about the companies financial health. That's very standard in a dealer or franchise relationship. It doesn't mean that the dealers get full disclosure down to the penny but their contract may allow them to request that information.


----------



## bow shooter

If elite steps up and offers him the same or more than he makes now he may leave if they don't match Mathews he won't leave .i don't know anyone who would take the same job there already doing for less money unless they are really unhappy where there at . I know they had there differences a few years ago but that happens a lot with work no matter what your profession . he's doing very well supporting his family and doing very well with what he's shooting now its gonna take as good or better offer for him to leave Mathews .its not just fun and games to him it's how he supports his family.


----------



## bwhnter4life

Money talks and b.s. walks.....dont care how loyal you are....we all have a price.


----------



## Crow Terminator

To me, archery is a sport and I don't see where it's different than any other sport in which people make a big deal about who is going where for the next yr. NASCAR has the "silly season" in which it's always a big deal for which driver will be going to drive for such and such next yr. It's a big deal when somebody big in archery, like Levi, changes teams so to speak. It would be like Earnhardt Jr swapping from Chevy to a Ford or something like that. The football, basketball and baseball all have their "drafts" in who is going to play for what team, etc. No, it doesn't really matter what bow Levi or anybody else shoots...the same way it don't matter who gets drafted for quarterback of any team...but it is interesting to the fans and followers. That's all these threads like this are doing...fans of archery talking about changes of the big players. I don't see where it hurts a thing or why it upsets so many.


----------



## -bowfreak-

Crow Terminator said:


> To me, archery is a sport and I don't see where it's different than any other sport in which people make a big deal about who is going where for the next yr. NASCAR has the "silly season" in which it's always a big deal for which driver will be going to drive for such and such next yr. It's a big deal when somebody big in archery, like Levi, changes teams so to speak. It would be like Earnhardt Jr swapping from Chevy to a Ford or something like that. The football, basketball and baseball all have their "drafts" in who is going to play for what team, etc. No, it doesn't really matter what bow Levi or anybody else shoots...the same way it don't matter who gets drafted for quarterback of any team...but it is interesting to the fans and followers. That's all these threads like this are doing...fans of archery talking about changes of the big players. I don't see where it hurts a thing or why it upsets so many.


Agreed.


----------



## Shooter78

I was just wondering if anyone heard any updates on the whole levi thing??


----------



## nhns4

Shooter78 said:


> I was just wondering if anyone heard any updates on the whole levi thing??


Sure

Elite


----------



## NGsportsman

Yes, he called me yesterday to let me know he was going to be Elite next year. 

Doesn't matter that Elite's target bows aren't on par with Mathews... he can shoot anything.


----------



## cc122368

I think there bows are on par and better than Mathews I have had many Mathews that had problems and as for tunable with a yoke I just got my new 13 Pulse and it shoots for me way better than any Mathews I have had. For some can shoot Mathews better than me I know but to me the grip is way more repeatable than Mathews and it shoots bullet holes with 340's at 65 all the way down to 55 no left or right tears in paper see some saying they get tears I don't know how on the Pulse. After all the high end bows I have went through finely found a keeper for me.


----------



## Jaliv92

Crow Terminator said:


> To me, archery is a sport and I don't see where it's different than any other sport in which people make a big deal about who is going where for the next yr. NASCAR has the "silly season" in which it's always a big deal for which driver will be going to drive for such and such next yr. It's a big deal when somebody big in archery, like Levi, changes teams so to speak. It would be like Earnhardt Jr swapping from Chevy to a Ford or something like that. The football, basketball and baseball all have their "drafts" in who is going to play for what team, etc. No, it doesn't really matter what bow Levi or anybody else shoots...the same way it don't matter who gets drafted for quarterback of any team...but it is interesting to the fans and followers. That's all these threads like this are doing...fans of archery talking about changes of the big players. I don't see where it hurts a thing or why it upsets so many.


X2

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## yougoteem

Has anyone personally bought a bow or a brand, based off who shoots for them? I am talking target archers not pro hunters. I have not, nor do I know of anyone. Thats why you can count on one hand the people who can quit working and actually be a professional target archer. I know Levi has his own hunting show now and that will do way more for his sponsors than shooting target. Of course thats just my opinion.


----------



## thencprince1515

He'd be losing 250k a year to go to Elite and bottom line Elite doesn't have any bows for him to shoot. 


PSE 🎯


----------



## whack&stack

thencprince1515 said:


> He'd be losing 250k a year to go to Elite and bottom line Elite doesn't have any bows for him to shoot.
> 
> 
> PSE 🎯


Why don't they? I saw their website they have stuff that looked like risers, limbs, cams and string thingamajigee on em. Seems like they were made to shoot an arrow. 


PSE


----------



## nhns4

thencprince1515 said:


> He'd be losing 250k a year to go to Elite and bottom line Elite doesn't have any bows for him to shoot.
> 
> 
> PSE 🎯


Your high

Elite


----------



## pbuck

thencprince1515 said:


> He'd be losing 250k a year to go to Elite and bottom line Elite doesn't have any bows for him to shoot.
> 
> 
> PSE &#55356;&#57263;


Thank you for confirming why you are on my ignore list.


----------



## thencprince1515

pbuck said:


> Thank you for confirming why you are on my ignore list.


Sorry of that bothers you, however as the old saying goes "the truth hurts" 


PSE 🎯


----------



## nhns4

thencprince1515 said:


> Sorry of that bothers you, however as the old saying goes "the truth hurts"
> 
> 
> PSE 🎯


Guess we will see come the end of september on who is correct. 

Elite


----------



## thencprince1515

nhns4 said:


> Guess we will see come the end of september on who is correct.
> 
> Elite


Correct or not if he left Mathews for Elite it would be the absolute worst business decision he ever made. McPherson gives away more money a year than Elite makes. 


PSE 🎯


----------



## cc122368

He would have a better bow the 13 Pulse is the first bow I know is not going anywhere may say with me the rest of my bow hunting life I can't miss with it. And it is way quieter than my Creed was with no stab on the Pulse no vib at all. After going through 7 high end bows this year that says allot.


----------



## nhns4

thencprince1515 said:


> Correct or not if he left Mathews for Elite it would be the absolute worst business decision he ever made. McPherson gives away more money a year than Elite makes.
> 
> 
> PSE 🎯


Your so unintelligent with your comments. 

Elite


----------



## tpentecost83

whack&stack said:


> Why don't they? I saw their website they have stuff that looked like risers, limbs, cams and string thingamajigee on em. Seems like they were made to shoot an arrow.
> 
> 
> PSE



Now that is funny stuff right there!!!!!!


----------



## seiowabow

cc122368 said:


> He would have a better bow the 13 Pulse is the first bow I know is not going anywhere may say with me the rest of my bow hunting life I can't miss with it. And it is way quieter than my Creed was with no stab on the Pulse no vib at all. After going through 7 high end bows this year that says allot.


Levi is not shooting a Creed on the 3D course, nor would he be shooting a Pulse.

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## -bowfreak-

thencprince1515 said:


> Correct or not if he left Mathews for Elite it would be the absolute worst business decision he ever made. McPherson gives away more money a year than Elite makes.
> 
> 
> PSE &#55356;&#57263;


Who knows what Elite has planned? Maybe they start dumping a bunch of money into target archery and make a big splash. It was only a few years ago when PSE jumped back in. Evidently Elite has the cash....they have bought a few archery companies. Maybe they will pay out big time contingencies. 

I am not sure why you think this is so far fetched.


----------



## Whaack

Alpha Burnt said:


> Griggs is stealing them all away! Leviticus is not saying anything. He would be an asset to any company he shoots for. So would Christenberry. Both are personable and down to earth in my experience.
> 
> I tell you what, I believe the following matters more than what he shoots, quoted from a post he made on AT;
> 
> "Hey Guys Levi here...I havent read every single post on this thread but I did want to say something...I was raised in church my whole life and I had God fearing parents who raised me right and taught me right from wrong. I sat in church every Sunday morning Night and Wednesday nights, but the fact is that didnt make me any better than any one else or change the end result of where I was headed. I was a sinner just like everyone else and will always be a sinner as will we all. I had never felt God move in my life because I had never accepted Him in my heart. I sat there in church numb to the fact the God even existed for years and years hearing the truth and rejecting it and thinking that these people(Christians) must be crazy to be so excited over something that you cant even see. It was 2009 I had been under conviction and running from God since I was 18. I knew I needed God in my life and I was miserable with no real happiness in my heart. I was winning tournaments left and right but couldnt even enjoy that. I would lay in bed afraid to go to sleep at night because I knew where I was going if I didnt wake up. I was at the Augusta Ga ASA shoot on april 28 2009 and I won the final arrow shoot off for the win but all I could think of was getting home to the revival that was going on. I couldnt take living miserable anymore and I had to do something about it. I remember sitting there thru that service monday night April 29th, 2009 waiting on the invitation so I could make things right in my heart. That night I accepted Jesus in my life and gave Him full control and begged Him to forgive my of my sins and I truly 100% believe that He did. The peace that came over me that night was so incredible and the change in my heart towards God. It made me want to be a better Husband and just a better man in general and I have watched God move and felt God move in my life so many times since then and I have a personal relationship with Him and I know He is real. I do however know how some of you dont believe because youve never gave Him the chance to work in your life. He gave us the choice to believe what we want to believe and we dont have to accept Him in our lives but why would anyone turn down the most free and perfect gift there has ever been, ETERNAL LIFE. You cant always see Gods work but the ones who have truly accepted Him can feel it. This is why I Thank God every chance I get for every thing I have. I dont deserve any of it and I know that the bible says "every good and perfect gift cometh from above" and I believe that. Who am i to take credit for something that was given to me. I agree that there are lots of people that say one thing and do another and as Christians we need to look more closely at ourselves sometimes and the effect we are having with our actions and I'm as guilty as anyone but that fact is when you are saved that doesnt make you perfect or mean you will never do wrong again. It means that Jesus is now in our hearts and that we should bear that fruit and let people see Him in our lives... The flesh that we live live in isnt perfect and I'm as bad as anyone but I have a peace in my heart that I wouldnt trade for anything in the world! Sorry for the long post but I wanted you guys and girls to know why I thank God every day and why I love Him so much. He changed my life!!! "


That is just awesome. Thx.


----------



## thencprince1515

nhns4 said:


> Your so unintelligent with your comments.
> 
> Elite


Truth hurts huh? 


PSE 🎯


----------



## Viper69

I still say if this is true you will see an all new target bow for 2014 based on what he wants


----------



## mhill

thencprince1515 said:


> Correct or not if he left Mathews for Elite it would be the absolute worst business decision he ever made. McPherson gives away more money a year than Elite makes.
> 
> 
> PSE &#55356;&#57263;


You might be eating those words very soon. Elite is up and coming... they have a very good business model, the business group that owns elite is buying a ton of good name & good reputation accessory companies. everyone knows CBE, Scott, and Elite are all owned by this business group, but they also own Solid Broadhead Company. Next they will be buying an arrow company, you can bet money on that. If Elite can keep their innovation, quality, and engineering ideas competitive they will be barking at the heels of the top 4 bow mfgs in the coming years. Looks like Mathews will be changing their slogan if Elite can swing Levi over to their team. Obvious Levi would be thinking mathews is no longer the best bow mfg for him.


----------



## Olydog

Whaack said:


> That is just awesome. Thx.


Awesome stuff.


----------



## Beastmaster

I have one question - mainly since I don't track archers that shoot Elite. Nor do I track them as an bow company.

What have they won recently?

I'm not asking this to be snide or sarcastic, I truly do not know what they have won out there, be it FITA, Field, NFAA, or what.

Here's the reason why I ask. People keep on saying "it's the Indian, not the bow". But, bow technology helps eek out those one or two additional points to help you win. 

So, if Elite truly is interested in winning and keeping big name archers on the podium - what are they doing to help that?

Money isn't the end all and be all of the sport. It helps, but money doesn't mean a lot of you don't get on the podium either. 

-Steve


----------



## Shooter78

When should we expect a announcement from levi or the company (which ever company that may be) ??


----------



## Brian from GA

I'm not getting into the squabble of this thread but to answer the who shoots and who has done what with an Elite questions I looked at ASA and IBO results page. 

I remember that when Eric Griggs went from Brownell back to Scott/CBE he changed bows just before the ASA Augusta GA shoot and made the shootdown with a 5th place finish. 

I only know of 3 guys currently (2013 and before) shooting Elite as pros- Eric, Adam Hayden and Kevin Koch. If there are others I apologize... Eric had a 4th in LA and a 5th in KY in ASA and a 6th at the 2nd leg and a 5th at the World in IBO. Adam had a 7th in Illinois and a 9th at the Classic and tied with Chance for first at the 1st leg of the IBO and lost the shootout to finish in second. Kevin had several top 15 finishes... and is a heck of a nice guy  I'm not throwing rocks at you Kevin!!

Making the top five a couple times in the same year in Pro is a BIG deal. You can shoot the best score you ever shot and not sniff the podium in pro.


----------



## Beastmaster

Brian from GA said:


> I'm not getting into the squabble of this thread but to answer the who shoots and who has done what with an Elite questions I looked at ASA and IBO results page.
> 
> I remember that when Eric Griggs went from Brownell back to Scott/CBE he changed bows just before the ASA Augusta GA shoot and made the shootdown with a 5th place finish.
> 
> I only know of 3 guys currently (2013 and before) shooting Elite as pros- Eric, Adam Hayden and Kevin Koch. If there are others I apologize... Eric had a 4th in LA and a 5th in KY in ASA and a 6th at the 2nd leg and a 5th at the World in IBO. Adam had a 7th in Illinois and a 9th at the Classic and tied with Chance for first at the 1st leg of the IBO and lost the shootout to finish in second. Kevin had several top 15 finishes... and is a heck of a nice guy  I'm not throwing rocks at you Kevin!!
> 
> Making the top five a couple times in the same year in Pro is a BIG deal. You can shoot the best score you ever shot and not sniff the podium in pro.


Thank you! That is what I'm looking for....

-Steve


----------



## rattlinman

I was hunting muledeer in Wyoming last week.

I walk into a local diner and sit down beside Levi Morgan, who just happens to be hunting the ranch (Table Mountain) directly south of the ranch I'm hunting.

We strike up a conversation about how he's done, what we have been seeing, he's already done with a great goat and a beautiful muledeer.

He takes out his phone and shows us the video, the guy is an amazing shot. he may have already posted it on Facebook, but if not, I'll let him tell everyone.

After 20+ minutes of chitchat, he tells us "good luck" and he and his camera man head out the door.

Bottom line to this story, whether you follow the guy because of what he shoots, or you admire the guy for his accomplishments in the archery business, he's a top-notch guy who treats everyone with complete respect and is a great Ambassador for the sport that we all enjoy. *Whether he leaves Mathews or stays, it will not change what I shoot and it will not change the respect I have for him as a person.*


Good luck Levi, on whatever road you decide to take. :thumbs_up


----------



## AR&BOW

rattlinman said:


> I was hunting muledeer in Wyoming last week.
> 
> I walk into a local diner and sit down beside Levi Morgan, who just happens to be hunting the ranch (Table Mountain) directly south of the ranch I'm hunting.
> 
> We strike up a conversation about how he's done, what we have been seeing, he's already done with a great goat and a beautiful muledeer.
> 
> He takes out his phone and shows us the video, the guy is an amazing shot. he may have already posted it on Facebook, but if not, I'll let him tell everyone.
> 
> After 20+ minutes of chitchat, he tells us "good luck" and he and his camera man head out the door.
> 
> Bottom line to this story, whether you follow the guy because of what he shoots, or you admire the guy for his accomplishments in the archery business, he's a top-notch guy who treats everyone with complete respect and is a great Ambassador for the sport that we all enjoy. *Whether he leaves Mathews or stays, it will not change what I shoot and it will not change the respect I have for him as a person.*
> 
> 
> Good luck Levi, on whatever road you decide to take. :thumbs_up


Right on Johnny!!


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> I was hunting muledeer in Wyoming last week.
> 
> I walk into a local diner and sit down beside Levi Morgan, who just happens to be hunting the ranch (Table Mountain) directly south of the ranch I'm hunting.
> 
> We strike up a conversation about how he's done, what we have been seeing, he's already done with a great goat and a beautiful muledeer.
> 
> He takes out his phone and shows us the video, the guy is an amazing shot. he may have already posted it on Facebook, but if not, I'll let him tell everyone.
> 
> After 20+ minutes of chitchat, he tells us "good luck" and he and his camera man head out the door.
> 
> Bottom line to this story, whether you follow the guy because of what he shoots, or you admire the guy for his accomplishments in the archery business, he's a top-notch guy who treats everyone with complete respect and is a great Ambassador for the sport that we all enjoy. *Whether he leaves Mathews or stays, it will not change what I shoot and it will not change the respect I have for him as a person.*
> 
> 
> Good luck Levi, on whatever road you decide to take. :thumbs_up


Well said my friend!!!!!!


----------



## 0nepin

Something with at least one yoke if they want to win consistanly .


Viper69 said:


> I still say if this is true you will see an all new target bow for 2014 based on what he wants


----------



## rodney482

0nepin said:


> Something with at least one yoke if they want to win consistanly .


Single cam


----------



## M0N3Y5H0T

rodney482 said:


> Who cares??? that right there is one of the reasons archery has never launched like other sports.... NO ONE CARES!...
> 
> Other professional sports advertise what their players make... .Why? because it attracts an audience.
> 
> Maybe we better start caring ......



Couldn't have said it better, great post.


----------



## bighunterguy

M0N3Y5H0T said:


> Couldn't have said it better, great post.


X2


Messaged Delivered 330fps via G3 Element!


----------



## kimberGR

What about the second part of the question. If Levi signs a new contract with some one else. Where does that leave Samatha. Will there be any fall out. Like will she stay with Mathews or will she look for a new contract.


----------



## rock monkey

people like to point out that Mathews has the most winners.......so by the numbers more losers shoot Mathews too.


----------



## 3-D Junkie

kimberGR said:


> What about the second part of the question. If Levi signs a new contract with some one else. Where does that leave Samatha. Will there be any fall out. Like will she stay with Mathews or will she look for a new contract.


I believe they would go together. I don't think any company would have any major opposition to signing them both.
They are both outstanding shooters and great representatives of the sport. It would be like hitting 2 jackpots with one spin of the slot machine.
I'm not convinced that Levi and Mathews are done yet. If so, it will not change what I shoot. I shoot what I like, not what someone else tells me too. But it does interest me to see what may happen. Because if there is a change it may be a good indicator into the future of the competitive archery industry.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DroptineArchery

We all might get surprised with some of the changes this year. Levi and Samantha are winners and will win no matter what bow they shoot. It is and always has been the peanut pulling the trigger;


----------



## katerakilla

booo on Elite.


----------



## bow shooter

I for one don't believe it's just the peanut pulling the trigger. I'm not at the professional level but I do know I've had some bows that I shot better than others and I would say those guys have to. I saw Levi shooting a Mathews safari this year at one shoot did he win no. Following shoot back with the apex. I have seen him shoot the monster and do well but he's almost unstoppable on a 3d course with his apex.


----------



## will750

bow shooter said:


> I for one don't believe it's just the peanut pulling the trigger. I'm not at the professional level but I do know I've had some bows that I shot better than others and I would say those guys have to. I saw Levi shooting a Mathews safari this year at one shoot did he win no. Following shoot back with the apex. I have seen him shoot the monster and do well but he's almost unstoppable on a 3d course with his apex.


:thumbs_up


----------



## Absolute Archer

rattlinman said:


> I was hunting muledeer in Wyoming last week.
> 
> I walk into a local diner and sit down beside Levi Morgan, who just happens to be hunting the ranch (Table Mountain) directly south of the ranch I'm hunting.
> 
> We strike up a conversation about how he's done, what we have been seeing, he's already done with a great goat and a beautiful muledeer.
> 
> He takes out his phone and shows us the video, the guy is an amazing shot. he may have already posted it on Facebook, but if not, I'll let him tell everyone.
> 
> After 20+ minutes of chitchat, he tells us "good luck" and he and his camera man head out the door.
> 
> Bottom line to this story, whether you follow the guy because of what he shoots, or you admire the guy for his accomplishments in the archery business, he's a top-notch guy who treats everyone with complete respect and is a great Ambassador for the sport that we all enjoy. *Whether he leaves Mathews or stays, it will not change what I shoot and it will not change the respect I have for him as a person.*
> 
> 
> Good luck Levi, on whatever road you decide to take. :thumbs_up


You are 100% correct I have known Levi since he was twelve and I do not believe you could find a better guy. Samantha either just great people. I wish him well at what ever he does. A true pro by all aspects.


----------



## Bryan Thacker

thencprince1515 said:


> He'd be losing 250k a year to go to Elite and bottom line Elite doesn't have any bows for him to shoot.
> 
> 
> PSE 🎯


They will in 3 weeks...I'm sure Levi already has it!


----------



## thencprince1515

Bryan Thacker said:


> They will in 3 weeks...I'm sure Levi already has it!


Like I said and ill stick to it, if he left Mathews it would be the worst business decision in his life. The amount of money and gear he gets from Mathews and all the companies that are affiliated with Mathews is astonishing. Elite couldn't give him 25% of what he gets now, that's a fact. 


PSE 🎯


----------



## OctoberAssassin

He likes to win and shoot the best equipment available he won't leave mathews!


----------



## pbuck

Lol! 


Elite


----------



## cc122368

I have owned a lot of Mathews and they for me are not as good as my Elite Pulse it just flat out shoots.


----------



## Bryan Thacker

rock monkey said:


> people like to point out that Mathews has the most winners.......so by the numbers more losers shoot Mathews too.


Just when i thought Mathews had brainwashed all of AT, rock monkey comes through!!!LOL!


----------



## OctoberAssassin

Bryan Thacker said:


> Just when i thought Mathews had brainwashed all of AT, rock monkey comes through!!!LOL!


Professional archers those who have reached the top of our sport shoot Mathews more winners more losers simply more people at the highest level using the highest quality equipment you can argue but the competitive nature of almost everyone in any sport is they want to win and more often than not that means choosing what they shoot best!


----------



## bowtechnow

thencprince1515 said:


> Like I said and ill stick to it, if he left Mathews it would be the worst business decision in his life. The amount of money and gear he gets from Mathews and all the companies that are affiliated with Mathews is astonishing. Elite couldn't give him 25% of what he gets now, that's a fact.
> 
> 
> PSE 🎯


I would have to say there is no way he would take a 75% cut. 10 or so I could believe.


----------



## monsterbuckrick

Whatever Levi does I wish him luck. He's a great guy......


----------



## dairyboy4

Who's to say his cash cow with Mathews hasn't ran dry.....who's to say Mathews is talking about not paying him so much in contingency money since they basically all ready have him on the payroll.......mabey someone has given him a place to put his name on a bow and royalties for how many they sell that he has helpef to design.....only time will tell.


----------



## tecshooter

dairyboy4 said:


> Who's to say his cash cow with Mathews hasn't ran dry.....*who's to say Mathews is talking about not paying him so much in contingency money* since they basically all ready have him on the payroll.......mabey someone has given him a place to put his name on a bow and royalties for how many they sell that he has helpef to design.....only time will tell.


Rumors are rumors, but a drop in contingency $$ by Mathews is one I have been hearing lately.


----------



## sagecreek

Elite is paying him waaay more than Mathews was. :spy:


----------



## bowtecha

If I had to guess if he left Mathews he'd be with PSE, that said it would be really cool to see him with some company like elite.

And I have a feeling if Levi goes Samantha will as well, but....maybe not


----------



## pbuck

sagecreek said:


> Elite is paying him waaay more than Mathews was. :spy:


No way! They couldn't pay him 25% of what Mathews does!!! :spy:


----------



## sagecreek

How about $333,000/year?

I guess we will find out Oct 1st. :wink:


----------



## stehawk

sagecreek said:


> How about $333,000/year?
> 
> . :wink:



That much money will buy a lot of bows----oppps--- I mean that much money will cost the consumers lots for bows!:shade:


----------



## pbuck

sagecreek said:


> How about $333,000/year?
> 
> I guess we will find out Oct 1st. :wink:


X more than one year. Lol. :wink:


----------



## sagecreek

Elites are worth twice what you pay for them. lain:


----------



## 3-D Junkie

There are a few changes to the Mathews lineup this year. I don't know about Levi, but there are a couple others that will not be with Mathews next year. One I know is looking real hard at PSE. He has been loving the adjustability of the bow PSE sent him.
He tried to pitch it to me but I'm pretty happy with what I got. 
I wouldn't be surprised to see some heavy hitters jumping on the PSE team.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## stehawk

sagecreek said:


> Elites are worth twice what you pay for them. lain:


Really, even with the cam lean, shims, and switching of limbs? Are they really that good? Maybe I need to buy one if they're that good.:shade:


----------



## tomah

any takers? form looks familiar lol


----------



## Kstigall

tomah said:


> View attachment 1762273
> 
> 
> any takers? form looks familiar lol



*Mr. Ed!*


----------



## pbuck

Kstigall said:


> *Mr. Ed!*


Dang! Im 30 secs too slow!!

Lol!!


----------



## CelticSavage

tomah said:


> View attachment 1762273
> 
> 
> any takers? form looks familiar lol


Dud


----------



## rattlinman

tecshooter said:


> Rumors are rumors, but a drop in contingency $$ by Mathews is one I have been hearing lately.


Well if that is true then our sport is in real jeopardy of drying up. Between the ASA using the cheapest targets they can buy, crowding the limited courses instead of opening extra courses, and now companies like Hoyt and possibly Mathews lowering their contingency money, people just aren't going to try to excel as much if the money isn't there.

Soon we'll be as obscure as bodybuilding.


----------



## tmorelli

rattlinman said:


> Soon we'll be as obscure as bodybuilding.


They have TV coverage though...

FWIW, I'm hearing that Hoyt's contingency plan moving forward is rather attractive..... and that Elite's is on the rise. -just what I'm hearing.


----------



## Kstigall

tomah said:


> View attachment 1762273
> 
> 
> any takers? form looks familiar lol



Stud or gelding?


----------



## Belicoso

tomah said:


> View attachment 1762273
> 
> 
> any takers? form looks familiar lol


Hey this is not a ´´how is my form thread´´ .


BTW you draw is to long:darkbeer:


----------



## Jaliv92

Its out !!!!! Levi @ Bowtech .
2014 Experience 38ata .shoot thru cable
/riser .Real Carbon Riser.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Garceau

thencprince1515 said:


> Like I said and ill stick to it, if he left Mathews it would be the worst business decision in his life. The amount of money and gear he gets from Mathews and all the companies that are affiliated with Mathews is astonishing. Elite couldn't give him 25% of what he gets now, that's a fact.
> 
> 
> PSE &#55356;&#57263;


How are you so quick to know?

Hmmm..... What companies is Mathews affiliated with that he gets support/money? 

Under armor? - Nope
Gold Tip? - Nope
Scott releases? - Nope
CBE sights? - Nope
Bee Stinger? - Nope

I am pretty certain which ever direction he decides he will be just fine..... besides I think saying Elite couldnt give him 25% is a pretty big stretch - you may be surprised at the money backing that company


----------



## sagecreek

Garceau said:


> How are you so quick to know?
> 
> Hmmm..... What companies is Mathews affiliated with that he gets support/money?
> 
> Under armor? - Nope
> Gold Tip? - Nope
> *Scott releases? - Nope
> CBE sights? - Nope*Bee Stinger? - Nope
> 
> I am pretty certain which ever direction he decides he will be just fine..... besides I think saying Elite couldnt give him 25% is a pretty big stretch - you may be surprised at the money backing that company


Elite owns CBE and Scott. lain:


----------



## BowHuntnKY

sagecreek said:


> Elite owns CBE and Scott. lain:


Yes tbats the point he was making Mathews has nothing to do with any of those companies...elite does.


----------



## Garceau

BowHuntnKY said:


> Yes tbats the point he was making Mathews has nothing to do with any of those companies...elite does.


Exactly -


----------



## bwhnter4life

jaliv92 said:


> its out !!!!! Levi @ bowtech .
> 2014 experience 38ata .shoot thru cable
> /riser .real carbon riser.
> Sent from my samsung-sgh-i337 using tapatalk 2


huh?


----------



## a1hoyt.ca

Gotta love MR. Ed. I have heard if Levi wants to leave Mathews he would have to buy out his contract. But why would he want a bow that has not won him how many championships. To many to count. I can tell ya he is not going any where.


----------



## bwhnter4life

tomah said:


> View attachment 1762273
> 
> 
> any takers? form looks familiar lol


Why the long face.....no worry about string slap on the forearm...just the face


----------



## rattlinman

tmorelli said:


> They have TV coverage though...
> 
> FWIW, I'm hearing that Hoyt's contingency plan moving forward is rather attractive..... and that Elite's is on the rise. -just what I'm hearing.


Good point. But they aren't in the Olympics...yet.

I'm not a Hoyt shooter but I hope you are correct. If Levi leaves, I have to believe one of the factors would be the change in contingency money. If Elite ups their payback higher than Hoyt and Mathews, why not cash in? 

I can't remember off my head, but didn't Gillingham win one and the second place Mathews shooter got a bigger check? I'm surprised Hoyt didn't lose a bunch of shooters last year, won't be surprised if Mathews loses several if the contingency money is gone.

I've said this before though, I'll say it again (simply because FOR ME, I was not able to shoot Binary cam systems as well), I will definitely be curious to see if Levi can continue his reign of terror while shooting a Binary cam system. IMO


----------



## Lazarus

rattlinman said:


> I've said this before though, I'll say it again (simply because FOR ME, I was not able to shoot Binary cam systems as well), I will definitely be curious to see if Levi can continue his reign of terror while shooting a Binary cam system. IMO


Man, you really T'd that up. I would say something but I won't. 

Sorry to interrupt the topic with a frivolous remark. Carry on.


----------



## rodney482

sagecreek said:


> Elite is paying him waaay more than Mathews was. :spy:


Not what I was told....


----------



## rattlinman

Lazarus said:


> Man, you really T'd that up. I would say something but I won't.
> 
> Sorry to interrupt the topic with a frivolous remark. Carry on.


No no, you can say what hear, this is AT! :wink: I set it up laces-out just for that reason!

I haven't seen you shooting much at the AQ in awhile. You still shooting that Strother?


----------



## Lazarus

rattlinman said:


> No no, you can say what hear, this is AT! :wink: I set it up laces-out just for that reason!
> 
> I haven't seen you shooting much at the AQ in awhile. You still shooting that Strother?


HaHa, actually I didn't have a problem with baggin' on you but I just didn't want to interrupt this otherwise serious topic. 

Yes, still shooting the Moxie......as well as a binary can be shot! It's a nice bow to shoot though, if I ever get serious I'm gonna have to start looking for something else.


----------



## DroptineArchery

The watch on the Mr. ED head is Mr. Dudley from Nock On hunting show. He does all of the Xpress advertisements and videos.


----------



## DroptineArchery

$333,000 for 3 years is a good chunk of money, plus contingency if you win.


----------



## Absolute Archer

I can't say how I know this but Levi is going to Elite and so is Darren Christenberry.( I think that's how you spell his last name) AND Danny McCarthy is going to Mathews. Jeff Hopkins just sighed 3 more years with Mathews.


----------



## Shooter78

Absolute Archer said:


> I can't say how I know this but Levi is going to Elite and so is Darren Christenberry.( I think that's how you spell his last name) AND Danny McCarthy is going to Mathews. Jeff Hopkins just sighed 3 more years with Mathews.


This doesn't surprise me.. Im eager to hear something official though..


----------



## [email protected]

I heard he was making well over a million a year already!


----------



## Supermag1

[email protected] said:


> I heard he was making well over a million a year already!


Well with Pollard chiming in, we now know that Levi is probably sitting back and laughing his butt off at this thread.


----------



## rodney482

Shooter78 said:


> This doesn't surprise me.. Im eager to hear something official though..


late Sept is what I was told....


----------



## nhns4

rodney482 said:


> late Sept is what I was told....


27th

Elite


----------



## -bowfreak-

I love this thread. More power to Levi.


----------



## sagecreek

Supermag1 said:


> Well with Pollard chiming in, we now know that Levi is probably sitting back and laughing his butt off at this thread.


Well, I don't know if he's laughing or not, probably just shaking his head, but I would better a dollar to a doughnut that he is reading it. :wink:


----------



## sagecreek

trucker3573 said:


> I sure hope so as i am going to laugh when he owns everyone with one of these crappy un-tunable bows.


Exactly! I think his scores will go up even higher. lain:


----------



## rodney482

sagecreek said:


> Well, I don't know if he's laughing or not, probably just shaking his head, but I would better a dollar to a doughnut that he is reading it. :wink:


he has read it for sure,,,and if he was staying with Mathews he would have already put this to an end.. pretty much tells you he is done with Matt.


----------



## rodney482

trucker3573 said:


> I sure hope so as i am going to laugh when he owns everyone with one of these crappy un-tunable bows.


He will win for sure..... I know of some other top pros that would shoot a binary as well...


----------



## tpentecost83

trucker3573 said:


> i sure hope so as i am going to laugh when he owns everyone with one of these crappy un-tunable bows.


tru dat!


----------



## primal-bow

did i miss some thing? what happen to Levi and Mathews?


----------



## buckmaster8501

sagecreek said:


> elites are worth twice what you pay for them. lain:


not


----------



## nhns4

Levi has killed multiple animals already this year. And all pics are without a bow in the picture. Mathews is out fo sho

Elite


----------



## cicero

nhns4 said:


> Levi has killed multiple animals already this year. And all pics are without a bow in the picture. Mathews is out fo sho
> 
> Elite


Noticed same thing on Facebook!!


----------



## BowHuntnKY

I commented on his mulie he just took...lol i said " sure looks like a one of a kind "elite" buck....haha


----------



## robbyreneeward

BowHuntnKY said:


> I commented on his mulie he just took...lol i said " sure looks like a one of a kind "elite" buck....haha


Ha that wasn't subtle at all


----------



## griffwar

This stuff crack's me up who care's.


----------



## nontypical169

Go to his fb page and look at the muley pic..if you look closely thats a elite quiver on his gameplan pack..


----------



## rodney482

nontypical169 said:


> Go to his fb page and look at the muley pic..if you look closely thats a elite quiver on his gameplan pack..


He was trying his best to hide his bow,,,,and you go and spot his quiver... which is a an Elite quiver.

Other pics show ( OLDER ) show the Mathews quiver....


----------



## nhns4

rodney482 said:


> He was trying his best to hide his bow,,,,and you go and spot his quiver... which is a an Elite quiver.
> 
> Other pics show ( OLDER ) show the Mathews quiver....


He tried hiding in mathews in his earlier speed goat he got this year. 

Elite


----------



## cnmodaw

I love the people who say they don't care, yet they take time time to see the title of the thread, click on it, read through and then take the time to comment that they don't care. It kind of is a big deal in the archery business when he has pretty much been the face for Mathews in the 3D circuit and now he is switching to another company (allegedly). 

I did notice that in his speed goat pic he had a Mathews and in his latest Mulie pic there was an Elite quiver. Now I do find it funny that everyone thinks he "tried" to hide the bow, or he showed part of it on accident. Wouldn't you think he would take a pic with the bow completely away from the animal if he didn't want it to be seen? I think he's giving everyone something to talk about. That's just my 2 cents.


----------



## tomah

i heard hes going to shoot olympic recurve this year


----------



## Brown Hornet

griffwar said:


> This stuff crack's me up who care's.


Lots of people do....if you don't. Then well don't post in the thread. Matter of fact don't click on the thread. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## griffwar

I just like to read what the girl's are getting there panties in a bunch about, like I said make's me laugh.


cnmodaw said:


> I love the people who say they don't care, yet they take time time to see the title of the thread, click on it, read through and then take the time to comment that they don't care. It kind of is a big deal in the archery business when he has pretty much been the face for Mathews in the 3D circuit and now he is switching to another company (allegedly).
> 
> I did notice that in his speed goat pic he had a Mathews and in his latest Mulie pic there was an Elite quiver. Now I do find it funny that everyone thinks he "tried" to hide the bow, or he showed part of it on accident. Wouldn't you think he would take a pic with the bow completely away from the animal if he didn't want it to be seen? I think he's giving everyone something to talk about. That's just my 2 cents.


----------



## griffwar

Why how does it affect you going to change what you shoot? Funny stuff.


Brown Hornet said:


> Lots of people do....if you don't. Then well don't post in the thread. Matter of fact don't click on the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brown Hornet

griffwar said:


> Why how does it affect you going to change what you shoot? Funny stuff.


Not at all....but since I shoot target archery....

It's just like any other sport....I guess nobody cares or is interested to see if player X is changing to team F when his contract is up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nhns4

Tony219er said:


> That would be a surprise... Elite's target bows aren't in the same league as Mathews...and I'm not knocking Elite but the feel between the two is worlds apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


How do you base your thought? Is it cause a good chunk of the top shooters are with mathews hoyt ect? So they have more wins? Also they have a sht ton more los3rs shooting those as well if that is how you look at it. If a few big namew start shooting elite and keep winning will your thought stay the same?

Elite


----------



## -bowfreak-

This should be a great move for Levi. I think you will start seeing Elite branding Levi. A lot of Name the Game stuff will probably start showing up.

I think that a Name the Game shim kit would be a great idea. lain:


----------



## BowHuntnKY

-bowfreak- said:


> i think that a name the game shim kit would be a great idea. lain:


lmfao


----------



## DeepRiverHunter

He is one of the best shooters in the world!!! Who cares what he shoots that is his business........:teeth:


----------



## bsharkey

i heard he's giving up on archery and taking up an acting career. after the fine job he did with the Lancaster commercial.

i also heard he was good enough to get the lead in Trolls 3.


----------



## hjort jagare

griffwar said:


> Why how does it affect you going to change what you shoot? Funny stuff.


It could? I shoot Elite already and dont plan to change, That said having Levi on staff I believe they will improve the 3D and target bows. I hear a new target bow is coming Im sure at Levi's request. If its all that my 2013 Tour will be up for sale.


----------



## 0nepin

Wow now that's funny.


-bowfreak- said:


> This should be a great move for Levi. I think you will start seeing Elite branding Levi. A lot of Name the Game stuff will probably start showing up.
> 
> I think that a Name the Game shim kit would be a great idea. lain:


----------



## J-Daddy

I will say this...If Levi does go to Elite "which I think he will" then I bet Elite does a hell of a lot better job of marketing him than Mathews did...I don't care if he was making $10,000,000 a year at Mathews they didn't use him like they should have. 
They had one of, if not THE best shooters in the world who won everything and also had a hunting show and they didn't really market him at all....Levi will be THE man at Elite, target & hunting, they will back him 110% and market the crap out of him and his show.


----------



## kravguy

Sweet, I would love a little Levi action figure to go along with my "waddy" one.


----------



## rogersaddler

If Levi does switch thats his business. It's not the bow that makes the shooter a good shot it's the shooter that makes the bow shoot good. Will the sale of Elite go up because of it I'm sure it will. I can remember when Mathews first started out with their first bow the standard. Matt put has much money into advertising and getting the best shooters he could to represent his company when he first started out and still is. Yes they do make a good product and so does Elite


----------



## bardman

J-Daddy said:


> I will say this...If Levi does go to Elite "which I think he will" then I bet Elite does a hell of a lot better job of marketing him than Mathews did...I don't care if he was making $10,000,000 a year at Mathews they didn't use him like they should have.
> They had one of, if not THE best shooters in the world who won everything and also had a hunting show and they didn't really market him at all....Levi will be THE man at Elite, target & hunting, they will back him 110% and market the crap out of him and his show.


I agree 100%. But lets not kid ourselves he will go to who pays him the most. Thats all its about. The sheep can believe what they want. But it would help Elite in a huge way. No matter what they had to pay to get him. If its true


----------



## sagecreek

Like Larana Bobbit once said, "It won't be long now". :wink:


----------



## mhill

J-Daddy said:


> I will say this...If Levi does go to Elite "which I think he will" then I bet Elite does a hell of a lot better job of marketing him than Mathews did...I don't care if he was making $10,000,000 a year at Mathews they didn't use him like they should have.
> They had one of, if not THE best shooters in the world who won everything and also had a hunting show and they didn't really market him at all....Levi will be THE man at Elite, target & hunting, they will back him 110% and market the crap out of him and his show.


No way not Mathews.... they market everything. That's why there bows are 3-400 more then the competitors... (sarcasm) I think that Elite is a great company with a very good business plan, which of surrounding themselves with established reputable companies (scott CBE), but I think Levi would have to draw in a ton of sales by his presence of shooting Elite in order for Elite to be able to afford marketing him more then Mathews can/has. But you also have to think if they are marketing him more, this will increase the price on their bows, Unless they make him the face of their bows. what i mean is every elite commercial will have Levi in it not just some random customer shooting at the floor saying Whoaa! Or a hunter looking at full draw before shooting a deer. If they take the little money they spend on marketing and put it toward marketing Levi this would be the only way right now to market him enough. But after shooting Elite for a year or two Elite will get the face time needed to grow their marketing, because Levi will be tearing up the 3d courses with any bow he shoots.


----------



## mhill

bardman said:


> I agree 100%. But lets not kid ourselves he will go to who pays him the most. Thats all its about. The sheep can believe what they want. But it would help Elite in a huge way. No matter what they had to pay to get him. If its true


you never know... Levi might not have to worry about making more money, he's at the stage in his career where he can choose if he wants to be with a huge company or a growing company and take a little less with more after they grow into a larger company in the terms of sales not size.


----------



## 4IDARCHER

J-has a good point with Levi being the man at Elite. Although I am sure it is not the primary reason everybody does like to be pumped up a bit and have the feeling like you are important. At Mathews Levi was stabled behind a lot of others. I can see behind Lee and Tiffany (love or hate them they are the prototypical image of what makes money in the hunting industry, about the best I can say about them.) but to stick Levi, a multi-world champion behind some of the others seems a bit insulting. It seems very much like the business between Mathews and Levi was just that business. You shoot and win and we pay you, and although it sometimes does boil down to that you seem to get the feeling there is more of a relationship with some of the other people in the Mathew’s circle. Sure there was the highlight of the Z7X commercials but that quickly faded and then you didn’t hear much about him. Of course this coincides with the timeframe he would have been voicing his concerns with his contract. It’s like they were on the verge of pumping him up, commercials and putting money into his then new show, but then something pulled that back. I feel he will be a lot more involved at Elite, and if Mathews didn’t want to put more money into him, then it is a win-win all the way around. Mathews still have the hottie money making machine that Lee and Tiffany, Pat and Nichole, and some of the others; and Elite gets Levi, and paves the way for Samantha. Sounds like a positive evolution of the players in that world. That and I am positive UA is dropping a little more coin on him this year.


----------



## J-Daddy

4IDArcher is right... Yes Levi was the Z7X cover guy but that was it... Mathews gives Stan Potts, Lee & Tiff "I get that one", and a lot of overs WAY more face time than they ever did Levi. Now I understand that Stan is a legend in a sense in Bowhunting, I also get the Lee & Tiff media machine cause they make $$$... But with that said Levi has a good hunting show and is a multi time world champion... He's accomplished WAY more than 99.9% of the people Mathews has used more than him. At Elite Levi would be the big dog, the face of the company if you will, and here's why "and it's not about $$$$". Levi will continue to win at 3-d as long as he shoots, dudes a freaking cross between a rangefinder & a Hooter Shooter, his hunting show will only get better, his production values are going up since he's working with Marc Womack now and Elite will help him get in on good outfitters.. Also Levi is young enough for the kids to like him "like they do Waddell" so that makes him more marketable. It's hard to market a 60 year old fat dude that sounds like he was in the movie Deliverance. That stuff doesn't appeal to the younger crowd and the younger crowd is who you market to these days, not jaded old men who don't like anything and think their 20 year old setup works just fine. People on here seem to forget that Archery is a BUSINESS... You don't get anywhere sponsoring shows/people no one has heard of, it's tried all the time and it never works... You go after the big dogs and use them to the best of your ability to help your company and that person prosper. It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$ if you want to admit it or not. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rattlinman

mhill said:


> No way not Mathews.... they market everything. That's why there bows are 3-400 more then the competitors... (sarcasm) I think that Elite is a great company with a very good business plan, which of surrounding themselves with established reputable companies (scott CBE), but I think Levi would have to draw in a ton of sales by his presence of shooting Elite in order for Elite to be able to afford marketing him more then Mathews can/has. But you also have to think if they are marketing him more, this will increase the price on their bows, Unless they make him the face of their bows. what i mean is every elite commercial will have Levi in it not just some random customer shooting at the floor saying Whoaa! Or a hunter looking at full draw before shooting a deer. If they take the little money they spend on marketing and put it toward marketing Levi this would be the only way right now to market him enough. But after shooting Elite for a year or two Elite will get the face time needed to grow their marketing, because Levi will be tearing up the 3d courses with any bow he shoots.


So if this happens and Elite literally blows up and becomes a huge player, then will we be calling them the "Evil Empire", call people sheep that shoot Elite, and root for them to fail? Interesting idea and you do make a valid point on the overall cost. Remember that Elite also owns Scott and CBE, so the price of those may rise as well.



mhill said:


> you never know... Levi might not have to worry about making more money, he's at the stage in his career where he can choose if he wants to be with a huge company or a growing company and take a little less with more after they grow into a larger company in the terms of sales not size.


Don't kid yourself, everyone, even that Zuckerberg guy who invented facebook, want to make more money. It's not about the little guy or big guy, the checkbook will always dictate, especially since he just started a family. His reign as God of 3d will not last forever.



4IDARCHER said:


> J-has a good point with Levi being the man at Elite. Although I am sure it is not the primary reason everybody does like to be pumped up a bit and have the feeling like you are important. At Mathews Levi was stabled behind a lot of others. I can see behind Lee and Tiffany (love or hate them they are the prototypical image of what makes money in the hunting industry, about the best I can say about them.) but to stick Levi, a multi-world champion behind some of the others seems a bit insulting. It seems very much like the business between Mathews and Levi was just that business. You shoot and win and we pay you, and although it sometimes does boil down to that you seem to get the feeling there is more of a relationship with some of the other people in the Mathew’s circle. Sure there was the highlight of the Z7X commercials but that quickly faded and then you didn’t hear much about him. Of course this coincides with the timeframe he would have been voicing his concerns with his contract. It’s like they were on the verge of pumping him up, commercials and putting money into his then new show, but then something pulled that back. I feel he will be a lot more involved at Elite, and if Mathews didn’t want to put more money into him, then it is a win-win all the way around. Mathews still have the hottie money making machine that Lee and Tiffany, Pat and Nichole, and some of the others; and Elite gets Levi, and paves the way for Samantha. Sounds like a positive evolution of the players in that world. That and I am positive UA is dropping a little more coin on him this year.


My only comment on this would be to ask, if you owned a company and you had the best archer on staff that drew crowds of 500+ people at each event or you had the most popular tv personalities that had 1.5 million viewers...which one would you invest your advertising dollars into?


----------



## rodney482

bardman said:


> I agree 100%. But lets not kid ourselves he will go to who pays him the most. Thats all its about. The sheep can believe what they want. But it would help Elite in a huge way. No matter what they had to pay to get him. If its true


Not true.. He was done with Mathews regardless of what they paid him.. 

A good friend of mine was hunting with Levi when this all transpired.

From what I hear he had every right to be blistering pissed.


----------



## Lazarus

I have been waiting for this to blow up on AT but to date nobodies said a thing!

Am I the only one that saw the YouTube video that was posted on Sept 17 where Levi ended his segment with the Strother "mantra?" He said, quote; So you can "Extend Your Range." Then grinned. My guess is he was just saying it out of orneriness. Don't know. 

I don't have a copy of the video but I think it was a bowjunky video. He was talking about how to properly set and shoot a hinge.


----------



## reaper159

Maybe just maybe Leviticus can chime in and set the record straight. Levi is a great personality and elite would be lucky to have him on staff. No doubt in my mind Elite would treat him like the champion he is....just saying. BTW I bet Levi has been scoping this thread and laughing his butt off. He'll set the record straight soon enough.....he always does. No matter who he shoots for I'm a fan and dig what he does in the woods and on the course.


----------



## Lazarus

I was wrong, it wasn't YouTube. Found it gonna post a link, hope it works;

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=706746146006760&set=vb.294332503914795&type=2&theater


----------



## Lazarus

reaper159 said:


> Maybe just maybe Leviticus can chime in and set the record straight. Levi is a great personality and elite would be lucky to have him on staff. No doubt in my mind Elite would treat him like the champion he is....just saying. BTW I bet Levi has been scoping this thread and laughing his butt off. He'll set the record straight soon enough.....he always does. No matter who he shoots for I'm a fan and dig what he does in the woods and on the course.


Amen. He's great for the sport no matter what bow he's shooting. 

Also, I believe in the video above he said "Extend Your Range" just to see if it would blow up on here. You're right, you know he's watching. Levi.....keep 'em guessin. It's hilarious!


----------



## rodney482

reaper159 said:


> Maybe just maybe Leviticus can chime in and set the record straight. Levi is a great personality and elite would be lucky to have him on staff. No doubt in my mind Elite would treat him like the champion he is....just saying. BTW I bet Levi has been scoping this thread and laughing his butt off. He'll set the record straight soon enough.....he always does. No matter who he shoots for I'm a fan and dig what he does in the woods and on the course.


Im sure he is waiting till the new contract kicks in...


----------



## jarcher12

You will all know the truth November 1 . I guess ya'll will have wait till then. His old contract run out October 31.


----------



## Archerybuff

Wow, Nov 1 !!! This thread could hit 25-30 pages by then


----------



## reaper159

I'm sure the whole "extend your range" comment had nothing to do with strothers. He preaches this as a practice routine; the further you practice the easier the closer shots are. Cameron also preaches this method of practice and it is rather effective.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Lazarus said:


> I have been waiting for this to blow up on AT but to date nobodies said a thing!
> 
> Am I the only one that saw the YouTube video that was posted on Sept 17 where Levi ended his segment with the Strother "mantra?" He said, quote; So you can "Extend Your Range." Then grinned. My guess is he was just saying it out of orneriness. Don't know.
> 
> I don't have a copy of the video but I think it was a bowjunky video. He was talking about how to properly set and shoot a hinge.


Even the mere speculation of Levi to Strother Archery is the funniest thing I have ever read!!!!!!


----------



## War_Material

I hope he signs with PSE!


----------



## Lazarus

TexasCanesFan said:


> Even the mere speculation of Levi to Strother Archery is the funniest thing I have ever read!!!!!!


Did you even read in my first comment about it where I said "my guess is he was doing it out of orneriness?" 

No speculation at all. I just figured he said it so someone would start another topic; "Levi Going to Strother?" :teeth:


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Lazarus said:


> Did you even read in my first comment about it where I said "my guess is he was doing it out of orneriness?"
> 
> No speculation at all. I just figured he said it so someone would start another topic; "Levi Going to Strother?" :teeth:


Oh I know. It's just funny to me. Meant nothing by it.


----------



## Leviticus

Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-


----------



## Archerybuff

Leviticus said:


> until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! -Levi Morgan-


Good luck in Kansas this fall!


----------



## Albertabowhunt

Leviticus said:


> Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-


subbed


----------



## mrbirdog

would somebody please arrow this thread ??? LEVI, dont know dont care, due like the jeans tho....its kinda like on thread on whether or not Titleist wooed back Tiger Woods....again dont care...
Mrbirdog


----------



## nhns4

mrbirdog said:


> would somebody please arrow this thread ??? LEVI, dont know dont care, due like the jeans tho....its kinda like on thread on whether or not Titleist wooed back Tiger Woods....again dont care...
> Mrbirdog


No one cares if you care. Move on. This is archery and we are discussing. 

Elite


----------



## Viper69

Leviticus said:


> Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-


Good to hear from the only real source. I wouldn't expect you to be able to give any info on this yet. I'm sure some of these post are pretty funny to read. Good luck with whatever you choose. 

Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## TexasCanesFan

nhns4 said:


> No one cares if you care. Move on. This is archery and we are discussing.
> 
> Elite


Nick. Crazy concept huh?!?! Discussing something archery related on ARCHERY TALK. 

Bet that guy is also calling ESPN complaining about them talking about Peyton Manning on Sportscenter. He only wants to hear about football.


----------



## mrbirdog

thanks..... I will....
Mrbirdog


----------



## TexasCanesFan

mrbirdog said:


> thanks..... I will....
> Mrbirdog


Are you trying to hit for the ridiculous post cycle????


----------



## mrbirdog

No not really, maybe I'm spending to much time lookin at threads and get tired of seeing the same old ones...no more no less.....


TexasCanesFan said:


> Are you trying to hit for the ridiculous post cycle????


----------



## TexasCanesFan

mrbirdog said:


> No not really, maybe I'm spending to much time lookin at threads and get tired of seeing the same old ones...no more no less.....


No matter who Levi shoots for, him changing is "archery news" just like new bows or products. I would be interested no matter what Pro was changing brands. It is our sport and OUR professionals.

Or does all that make too much sense??


----------



## nhns4

mrbirdog said:


> No not really, maybe I'm spending to much time lookin at threads and get tired of seeing the same old ones...no more no less.....


Whammmmmbulance is on its way to your address. 

Elite


----------



## mrbirdog

Its my sport as well dude ! I don't get wood every time some Pro golfer or fisherman changes product and gets paid nicely to do so. You can have the last word if you want... I'm done.


----------



## Jaliv92

Leviticus said:


> Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-


Ok well can answer this?If your were stranded on an island with only one bow .Witch would you take.
A) Mathews creed.
B)Elite answer
 Good luck with your choice. 
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## nhns4

mrbirdog said:


> Its my sport as well dude ! I don't get wood every time some Pro golfer or fisherman changes product and gets paid nicely to do so. You can have the last word if you want... I'm done.


Bye

Elite


----------



## Jaliv92

Jaliv92 said:


> Ok well can answer this?If your were stranded on an island with only one bow .Witch would you take.
> A) Mathews creed.
> B)Elite answer
> Good luck with your choice.
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


Sorry for the poor grammar. Im suppose to be working

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## J-Daddy

Leviticus said:


> Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-


Levi atleast we know that your lurking in the shadows and keeping up with your life via AT... Good luck this season man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bigbucks170

I hope he shoots for PSE...!! I really like his hunting show and Iam in aw with his target skills and scores....


----------



## DroptineArchery

It is so funny when some of these guys post a comment that it dont matter and they are tired of reading or hearing about Levi but they continue to post and read the thread. I like reading these comments daily and feel like it is good for the archery world. 
Whatever Levi does will be good for him and his family and I wish him luck with his decision.


----------



## pozoutdoors

DroptineArchery said:


> It is so funny when some of these guys post a comment that it dont matter and they are tired of reading or hearing about Levi but they continue to post and read the thread. I like reading these comments daily and feel like it is good for the archery world.
> Whatever Levi does will be good for him and his family and I wish him luck with his decision.


That's the way I feel too!!! I have hoyt, elite and Mathews bows. I don't care what anybody shoots. I would shoot what ever one that payed the most. If I was getting payed to shoot them!!!


----------



## Viper69

If we can't talk about the best 3d shooter out there on an archery forum what do we talk about?

Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## NCBuckNBass

This thread is about as sad as seeing grown men wearing Jeff Gordon T-shirts.


----------



## Mr.Wiggles

Levi could have a engineer assemble a bow made from parts of each companies bows,and then tune it and outshoot everyone with that,it makes no difference what he has in his handsfor a bow.He will shoot it lights out.I will also add thatas far as goingn to the highest bidder,would anyone else do it differently?I sincerely doubt it.

Good luck Levi,in whatever you choose!


----------



## lavazhole

Based on what he said you can eliminate him staying or at least not yet.

if he was saying he'd have stated I'm w/ the solo cam cult.


----------



## pinwheeled

NCBuckNBass said:


> This thread is about as sad as seeing grown men wearing Jeff Gordon T-shirts.


now this is funny


----------



## Viper69

NCBuckNBass said:


> This thread is about as sad as seeing grown men wearing Jeff Gordon T-shirts.


Don't say that to some guys wearing Dale Earnhardt shirts. Your be picking up your teeth. Lol

Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Viper69 said:


> Don't say that to some guys wearing Dale Earnhardt shirts. Your be picking up your teeth. Lol
> 
> Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


Heck I am wearing Smoke underoos right now and looking for a fight!!!   

Just threw a helmet at a passing car in the neighborhood.


----------



## rembrandt

TexasCanesFan said:


> Heck I am wearing Smoke underoos right now and looking for a fight!!!
> 
> Just threw a helmet at a passing car in the neighborhood.


Hey, I've got on my favorite Duck Dynasty, Si T Shirt and I'm ready for a fight, what ya want to fight about?


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rembrandt said:


> Hey, I've got on my favorite Duck Dynasty, Si T Shirt and I'm ready for a fight, what ya want to fight about?


Well we can fight about Duck Dynasty being STUPID!!!


----------



## rembrandt

Hey man............anybody that can make millions making a duck call, having the hottest show on TV and you can't walk thru Wal-Mart without them plastered on almost every product except maybe Kotex........got to be smart! "That's what I'm talking about"....


----------



## tpentecost83

TexasCanesFan said:


> Well we can fight about Duck Dynasty being STUPID!!!


Awe snap!!!!!

And in this corner.................


----------



## lavazhole

rembrandt said:


> Hey man............anybody that can make millions making a duck call, having the hottest show on TV and you can't walk thru Wal-Mart without them plastered on almost every product except maybe Kotex........got to be smart! "That's what I'm talking about"....


I'm sure they will have a deal w/ tampax before long....something about when your bog over runs DD is there to sop it up. Fresh earth scent and all.


----------



## CPinWV

rembrandt said:


> Hey man............anybody that can make millions making a duck call, having the hottest show on TV and you can't walk thru Wal-Mart without them plastered on almost every product except maybe Kotex........got to be smart! "That's what I'm talking about"....


I've heard that product is next....Instead of yelling "Cut 'em", their gonna yell "Plug 'em"....


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rembrandt said:


> Hey man............anybody that can make millions making a duck call, having the hottest show on TV and you can't walk thru Wal-Mart without them plastered on almost every product except maybe Kotex........got to be smart! "That's what I'm talking about"....


People watch Ellen and Opra too. Just sayin.


----------



## Extreme vft17

sub


----------



## Extreme vft17

Just curious? I looked at the at the Name the Game page and it shows no bows listed under his equipment! Not sure thats the norm.

Anyways he's an amazing archer. Good luck to him.


----------



## MNmike

in before page 20....

Levi, good luck to you and Sam also.:thumbs_up


Guys, good thing it's bow season. Maybe this thread won't go 40 pages by November if your out hunting.


----------



## 3-D Junkie

I don't think the Tampax deal is gonna work. They hate beavers, and get really upset when they build dams to stop the flow.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## cicero

3-D Junkie said:


> I don't think the Tampax deal is gonna work. They hate beavers, and get really upset when they build dams to stop the flow.
> 
> Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk 2


Need a like button!!!!


----------



## nhns4

rembrandt said:


> Hey man............anybody that can make millions making a duck call, having the hottest show on TV and you can't walk thru Wal-Mart without them plastered on almost every product except maybe Kotex........got to be smart! "That's what I'm talking about"....


And some leg hump DCA arrows all day. 

Elite


----------



## BowHuntnKY

Leviticus said:


> Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-



awesome, we can close the thread now.

lol


----------



## bcrawf3

I heard that there are 3 shooters leaving Matthews to sign with Elite and it is supposed to happen very soon!! I can't say any names for sure but i think there will be alot of people shocked!!


----------



## rogersaddler

Thanks for jumping in and responding Levi and happy hunting to you as well


----------



## 4IDARCHER

The very fact that Levi spoke up and says he can't talk about if he was going to move makes me think for sure he IS moving. If he was staying at Mathews do you think they WOULDN'T want him to shut down any rumors of him moving right away. I can't imagine a contract that states he can't say he is staying with the company he is with and they are the best bow makers in the world and blah,blah,blah. Also if he is moving to Elite and is going to be their big dog and face of the company (and why wouldn't they want him to be after the whole VP thing) and have input on 2014 bows he would have to have been working with them for a while, especially since their 2014 bows are coming out BEFORE his contract is up. This of course would have had to have been done in secret and he would have to be tight lipped about it.


----------



## Kstigall

You heard it here first...... Levi will be shooting a new bow and has already shot a string of 300 30x Vegas games with it!!! The name of the bow is "Can't Touch This"  and it comes with a free CD and "custom" shooter pants........ Rumor on the street is that some 3D Pro's are miffed at the name, old school NFAA guys have a major boo boo lip and may outlaw his new shooter outfit!


----------



## tmorelli

Kstigall said:


> You heard it here first...... Levi will be shooting a new bow and has already shot a string of 300 30x Vegas games with it!!! The name of the bow is "Can't Touch This"  and it comes with a free CD and "custom" shooter pants........ Rumor on the street is that some 3D Pro's are miffed at the name, old school NFAA guys have a major boo boo lip and may outlaw his new shooter outfit!


If it comes with some green splashed "Name the Game" MC Hammer pants, count me in.


----------



## rattlinman

4IDARCHER said:


> The very fact that Levi spoke up and says he can't talk about if he was going to move makes me think for sure he IS moving. If he was staying at Mathews do you think they WOULDN'T want him to shut down any rumors of him moving right away. I can't imagine a contract that states he can't say he is staying with the company he is with and they are the best bow makers in the world and blah,blah,blah. Also if he is moving to Elite and is going to be their big dog and face of the company (and why wouldn't they want him to be after the whole VP thing) and have input on 2014 bows he would have to have been working with them for a while, especially since their 2014 bows are coming out BEFORE his contract is up. This of course would have had to have been done in secret and he would have to be tight lipped about it.


And this is called reading between the lines fellas, and he's 100% correct! 

Levi is on the move or he would have stated that his relationship with Mathews is on-going. I'm just wondering how off-topic this thread will be by November!


----------



## rattlinman

Kstigall said:


> You heard it here first...... Levi will be shooting a new bow and has already shot a string of 300 30x Vegas games with it!!! The name of the bow is "Can't Touch This"  and it comes with a free CD and "custom" shooter pants........ Rumor on the street is that some 3D Pro's are miffed at the name, old school NFAA guys have a major boo boo lip and may outlaw his new shooter outfit!


I heard the same rumor!!

Also , (and don't tell anyone), when I saw him in Wyoming the first week of September at a diner, he was sporting a strong beard...and the rumor is he's teaming up with the Duck Dynasty fellas. They are calling him VI and he will be SI's long lost son. 

His new logo is VI Morgan...get you some of that! :mg:


----------



## tmorelli

rattlinman said:


> I'm just wondering how off-topic this thread will be by November!


I'm doing my best. 

Keep your eye out for Duck Dynasty underwear in the NTG green splash pattern to match those MC Hammer pants.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## lavazhole

rattlinman said:


> And this is called reading between the lines fellas, and he's 100% correct!
> 
> Levi is on the move or he would have stated that his relationship with Mathews is on-going. I'm just wondering how off-topic this thread will be by November!


I ninjad this see 412


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


----------



## smurphy

4IDARCHER said:


> The very fact that Levi spoke up and says he can't talk about if he was going to move makes me think for sure he IS moving. If he was staying at Mathews do you think they WOULDN'T want him to shut down any rumors of him moving right away. I can't imagine a contract that states he can't say he is staying with the company he is with and they are the best bow makers in the world and blah,blah,blah. Also if he is moving to Elite and is going to be their big dog and face of the company (and why wouldn't they want him to be after the whole VP thing) and have input on 2014 bows he would have to have been working with them for a while, especially since their 2014 bows are coming out BEFORE his contract is up. This of course would have had to have been done in secret and he would have to be tight lipped about it.




Or he might want to make Mathews think he's leaving so he could make more money. Who could blame him he is one of the best archers in the world


----------



## Lazarus

smurphy said:


> Or he might want to make Mathews think he's leaving so he could make more money. Who could blame him he is one of the best archers in the world


So he quit displaying the Mathews in all of his kill shots this fall, withholding, so he could hold that over their heads for more money? Alrighty then. :teeth:


----------



## trumankayak

push it push it 
push it push it 
push it push it 
aaahhhhhhh...Morgan time.


----------



## Mestang99

I heard Matthews isn't really worried about Levi leaving... They have already collected some of his DNA, it was in the fine print of his last contract, and they are already 95% done with the clone. They altered some of the clone's DNA to make him able to have a 34" draw, but he will only shoot solo cam bows with a 29" ATA and he is powered by Waffles...


----------



## Whaack

Leviticus said:


> Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-


I don't know if he is going to Elite or not, but this sure reads like I am leaving Mathews. Either way I wish him the best!!


----------



## Firstegg

trumankayak said:


> push it push it
> push it push it
> push it push it
> aaahhhhhhh...Morgan time.


Should be Shoot it Shoot it... just sayin...


----------



## rattlinman

tmorelli said:


> I'm doing my best.
> 
> Keep your eye out for Duck Dynasty underwear in the NTG green splash pattern to match those MC Hammer pants.
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Ya know, there has been a few times at ASA tourneys I thought about looking for you just to say "HI". With your DD underoos and MC Hammer pants.....maybe not.......


----------



## Hard-Core

Levi wont be sticking with Matthews after this year.... .


----------



## bardman

Thanks Levi for posting. 

Good luck to you and continued success. You are a class act and great talent for the archery industry.


----------



## reaper159

bardman said:


> Thanks Levi for posting.
> 
> Good luck to you and continued success. You are a class act and great talent for the archery industry.


Agree 100%....

He is one of my favorite TV personalities; he is a pretty funny guy...


----------



## tmorelli

reaper159 said:


> Agree 100%....
> 
> He is one of my favorite TV personalities; he is a pretty funny guy...


I LOL'd for real at the bit they did while warming up for the Louisiana hunt.


----------



## rattlinman

tmorelli said:


> I LOL'd for real at the bit they did while warming up for the Louisiana hunt.


Anybody else notice that he always hits them in the low-back 12 ring? The man can shoot!


----------



## safaridreamer

No way is he going to Elite. Nothing against their bows, but they couldn't pay him enough not to mention they have zero presence in the target world where he makes his living. It would be a bad move IMO. My money is on Hoyt or PSE if he does move. Good luck Levi with what ever you decide.


----------



## bopo2

safaridreamer said:


> No way is he going to Elite. Nothing against their bows, but they couldn't pay him enough not to mention they have zero presence in the target world where he makes his living. It would be a bad move IMO. My money is on Hoyt or PSE if he does move. Good luck Levi with what ever you decide.


I think Levi is going to elite I'm sure elite would pay as well as Mathews and I know they would pay more than Hoyt look @the checks they have been giving McCarthy sad for one of the top company's pay so little. Good luck to Levi as well I hope you like the new elites


----------



## nhns4

safaridreamer said:


> No way is he going to Elite. Nothing against their bows, but they couldn't pay him enough not to mention they have zero presence in the target world where he makes his living. It would be a bad move IMO. My money is on Hoyt or PSE if he does move. Good luck Levi with what ever you decide.


Marked for later. To say your wrong lol

Elite


----------



## ThunderEagle

Just to stir the pot a little more, I just lifted this from Levi's Facebook page:



> Did you know that of the five hunting shows Watermarc produces, one is hosted by a world record archer? Starting today & for the next two weeks we'll be featuring Name the Game's Levi Morgan & his 13 unique "Extend Your Range" hunting tips. Stay tuned, you don't want to miss out!


I dunno, that seems like more than a "tweak".


----------



## nhns4

ThunderEagle said:


> Just to stir the pot a little more, I just lifted this from Levi's Facebook page:
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno, that seems like more than a "tweak".


Yeah and hes shooting the Eternal lol. 

Elite


----------



## rotty95

him and another big mathews shooter switched over.... heard that from a hoyt pro staffer


----------



## Garceau

Yes Christenberry........that's old news.

Well all of this is actually


----------



## TexasCanesFan

nhns4 said:


> Yeah and hes shooting the Eternal lol.
> 
> Elite


As in Eternally slow????


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Garceau said:


> Yes Christenberry........that's old news.
> 
> Well all of this is actually


As you "big time" it and post in the thread. Hahahhaaaaaaa


----------



## THE PHENOM

Who cares where he goes....I bet he is freaked out from all the man love....Never seen so many people on another mans #@t$...


----------



## Garceau

It's old news.....some were there when it was said.


----------



## ThunderEagle

Garceau said:


> It's old news.....some were there when it was said.


This was a photo posted by his production company. I just found this interesting because they quoted it and capitalized each word.

Regardless, whoever he ends up with, I doubt they want him associated with another company's tag line.

I'm just bored waiting on Saturday.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## TexasCanesFan

THE PHENOM said:


> Who cares where he goes....I bet he is freaked out from all the man love....Never seen so many people on another mans #@t$...


Don't lie!!!!


----------



## Garceau

THE PHENOM said:


> Who cares where he goes....I bet he is freaked out from all the man love....Never seen so many people on another mans #@t$...


Never worked in a prison eh?

Lol


----------



## Garceau

ThunderEagle said:


> This was a photo posted by his production company. I just found this interesting because they quoted it and capitalized each word.
> 
> Regardless, whoever he ends up with, I doubt they want him associated with another company's tag line.
> 
> I'm just bored waiting on Saturday.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


I was responding to Joel......sorry

I have thought the tag line was odd, but I don't think Strother is in the mix.


----------



## Beentown

Garceau said:


> I was responding to Joel......sorry
> 
> I have thought the tag line was odd, but I don't think Strother is in the mix.


They are already in Cabelas...


----------



## Inc.

THE PHENOM said:


> Who cares where he goes....I bet he is freaked out from all the man love....Never seen so many people on another mans #@t$...


 He does bash man love a bit to much if you ask me , seems a bit odd , It would not bother me in the least if he came out of the closet actually , damn good shooter and seems to have a great passion for the sport and all round good guy.


----------



## Garceau

Beentown said:


> They are already in Cabelas...



Huh?

I don't think Strother is in the Levi hunt mix.....

What are you referring too?


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Garceau said:


> Huh?
> 
> I don't think Strother is in the Levi hunt mix.....
> 
> What are you referring too?


So you are saying that Levi is in a Cabelas right now shooting a Strother?!?!?!?! We all know you got the "goods". Spill it.


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> So you are saying that Levi is in a Cabelas right now shooting a Strother?!?!?!?! We all know you got the "goods". Spill it.


I thought that looked like Levi. 

Elite


----------



## naturemade

This will go big for Levi. Scott will have a Name The Game release and you would think Elite would wait till Nov. 1st to release a Name The Game bow of some kind. Elite will be able to pay with no problem.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

nhns4 said:


> I thought that looked like Levi.
> 
> Elite


Were you back down in North Carolina for another one of those Ric Flair look alike contests that you do??? That's cool. You got that whole stylin and profilin thing down.


----------



## Beentown

nhns4 said:


> I thought that looked like Levi.
> 
> Elite


Yep, signed my re-manned Rush I picked up for $600...


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Beentown said:


> Yep, signed my re-manned Rush I picked up for $600...


I just received a reply from Strother Archery regarding their involvement in the Levi Sweepstakes.


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> Were you back down in North Carolina for another one of those Ric Flair look alike contests that you do??? That's cool. You got that whole stylin and profilin thing down.


You know it. 

Elite


----------



## rogersaddler

He goes where he goes doesn't affect me one way or another.


----------



## Brown Hornet

safaridreamer said:


> No way is he going to Elite. Nothing against their bows, but they couldn't pay him enough not to mention they have zero presence in the target world where he makes his living. It would be a bad move IMO. My money is on Hoyt or PSE if he does move. Good luck Levi with what ever you decide.


I don't know of he is going to Elite or not....and really don't care who he goes to as far as my bow choice goes....

But if you really think they can't "afford" him... You might have slipped and bumped your head in the past 5 years really hard. You may not remember doing it...but you bumped it none the less. 

Nobody in archery is making Lebron money from a company...but if you think any bow company worth a damn can't afford to pay any top archer..... If they want to your sadly mistaken. 

PRIME can afford Dave Cousins....who sold about as many bows since they dropped a bow line as Elite has sold in the past 6 months but they can't pay Levi...and they own CBE and Scott and have been around for how long now? 

Hell they could pay Levi just off of CBE or Scott money from this past year.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## THE PHENOM

PSE does have the money....


----------



## Garceau

Im pretty certain Pete has the money.

Scott and CBE as stated do pretty good.

Da Hornet knows

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## safaridreamer

Time will tell. Maybe he and Elite have big plans IDK. It just seems like he would go to a company well established in the target market. Plus, why go from a slow bow to an even slower one. LOL. Couldn't resist. Begin flaming in 3 2 ..............


----------



## Garceau

safaridreamer said:


> Time will tell. Maybe he and Elite have big plans IDK. It just seems like he would go to a company well established in the target market. Plus, why go from a slow bow to an even slower one. LOL. Couldn't resist. Begin flaming in 3 2 ..............


With his dl and asa speed limits he isnt too worried

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Assassino

I bet the dude is just shooting the 2014 Mathews, that's why he hasn't shown his bow in any of his recent pics...


----------



## THE PHENOM

Assassino said:


> I bet the dude is just shooting the 2014 Mathews, that's why he hasn't shown his bow in any of his recent pics...


I hope your right or pse gets him.....


----------



## bowtechnow

If I could shoot like Levi then I could shoot and judge yards like Levi then I could shoot a slower bow. I love watching his show and honestly pull for him every shoot. But I still don't reference what bow I shoot based off of what he does.


----------



## Inc.

Is this the longest thread ever on AT , and whos it helping ?


----------



## THE PHENOM

Don't like it don't read it...^^^^^^^^^


----------



## Inc.

THE PHENOM said:


> Don't like it don't read it...^^^^^^^^^


I did not and I am just asking and laughin , 
By the way keep your hopes up fan boy , you might get him after all.


----------



## THE PHENOM

Hahahahahaha!!!I am no fan boy...You are way off....


----------



## NCBuckNBass

I can't fathom how anyone old enough to own a computer and post on this forum would give two cents who a bow company paid to promote their bows. Next day off work some of you should take a field trip to grown-ups land.


----------



## nhns4

NCBuckNBass said:


> I can't fathom how anyone old enough to own a computer and post on this forum would give two cents who a bow company paid to promote their bows. Next day off work some of you should take a field trip to grown-ups land.


Go fighf your umbella battle and move on. 

Elite


----------



## shaneblandon

Word is that elite may have a true shoot through target bow.. Not sure on how true it is but that may play a role in it


----------



## Garceau

Would be cool to see......

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## stehawk

nhns4 said:


> Go fighf your umbella battle and move on.
> 
> Elite


 Hummmm, maybe he's fighting off the blind squirrels with the umbella:teeth:


----------



## stehawk

nhns4 said:


> Go fighf your umbella battle and move on.
> 
> Elite


We'll all know in a couple of days.:darkbeer:


----------



## blueglide1

Sheesh, 17 page of speculation. No body knows but Levi and his wife. And of course the bow companies involved.Got to be the longest thread ever,besides Nuts and Bolts DVD.By the way wheres my DVD? LOL


----------



## nhns4

blueglide1 said:


> Sheesh, 17 page of speculation. No body knows but Levi and his wife. And of course the bow companies involved.Got to be the longest thread ever,besides Nuts and Bolts DVD.By the way wheres my DVD? LOL


Why you gotta pee in our cherios lol

Elite


----------



## Whaack

Hardly the longest thread on AT. Far from it.


----------



## sagecreek

You think it's long now, wait until after November :first: lain:


----------



## kyhunter57

I personally like the speculation . I DO care who Levi and some of the other names shoot for and when they switch teams. It's good for the manufacturers who need them to promote their bows and it's good for the sport when they switch companies ; creates new interest (like this 17 page thread) . Just my $.02 .


----------



## hjort jagare

I hope Elite or another company gets him here's why. It could help stop the my bow is better than yours crap. You know the guy he cant hit the target 50% of the time but will tell you his bow is better than yours because his brand wins the 3/D competitions. ukey:
Or they could become Elite shooter's.:thumbs_do


----------



## rogersaddler

You are 100% right about that hjort jagare. But hey I bet a Mathews or a Hoyt can still beat your Elite. Until Levi shoots it...lol
I do miss shooting with all of you at Oakland county sportsman club and getting whipped by all of you


----------



## Kstigall

THE PHENOM said:


> Who cares where he goes....I bet he is freaked out from all the man love....Never seen so many people on another mans #@t$...


:set1_thinking: Just how many have you seen?!?!?!


----------



## blueglide1

blueglide1 said:


> Sheesh, 17 page of speculation. No body knows but Levi and his wife. And of course the bow companies involved.Got to be the longest thread ever,besides Nuts and Bolts DVD.By the way wheres my DVD? LOL


Thats OK you can all jump on me,I got big shoulders.Im just having some fun with it.Didnt know I would bend some of you out of shape over it,LOL Kstigal you follow me everywhere,hahaha. But thats good,I get to stare at your Avatar that way,haha.
Some of you are right,this probably isnt the most pages on a thread out there,I think Bernies Control Freak Stab thread is waaaay longer.


----------



## hjort jagare

rogersaddler said:


> You are 100% right about that hjort jagare. But hey I bet a Mathews or a Hoyt can still beat your Elite. Until Levi shoots it...lol
> I do miss shooting with all of you at Oakland county sportsman club and getting whipped by all of you


The Hoyt or Mathews will beat my @r$$ if you or another good shooter is pulling the trigger. The loud mouth fan boy will get a spanking with my Elite.


----------



## rogersaddler

hjort jagare said:


> The Hoyt or Mathews will beat my @r$$ if you or another good shooter is pulling the trigger. The loud mouth fan boy will get a spanking with my Elite.


Yes they sure will. It's not the bow it's the shooter Parry Harping shot I think 117xs at the Canadian indoor nationals one year with a Onida and I think he won Vegas with it also


----------



## Crow Terminator

NCBuckNBass said:


> I can't fathom how anyone old enough to own a computer and post on this forum would give two cents who a bow company paid to promote their bows. Next day off work some of you should take a field trip to grown-ups land.


You must not be able to fathom a lot of things then: such as why ESPN Sportscenter is always full of talk about which football/basketball/baseball players are going to be playing for such and such team next year, etc. Or why there is so much talk about which NASCAR driver is going to be swapping rides for next season, and things of that nature. 

This is the same thing, except it is about archery. Levi just happens to be one of the big time players in competition archery that has shot for one bow company for all of his professional career. So for those that shoot in, and follow tournament archery, it is a big topic of discussion if he is going to be moving to something else. If enough of it starts happening, it may be a sign of the tide changing...and that maybe it wont look like a swarm of yellow jackets buzzing around at the shoots (yellow/black shooter shirts) lol.


----------



## SHPoet

Crow Terminator said:


> You must not be able to fathom a lot of things then: *such as why ESPN Sportscenter is always full of talk about which football/basketball/baseball players are going to be playing for such and such team next year, etc. Or why there is so much talk about which NASCAR driver is going to be swapping rides for next season, and things of that nature.
> 
> This is the same thing, except it is about archery. * Levi just happens to be one of the big time players in competition archery that has shot for one bow company for all of his professional career. So for those that shoot in, and follow tournament archery, it is a big topic of discussion if he is going to be moving to something else. If enough of it starts happening, it may be a sign of the tide changing...and that maybe it wont look like a swarm of yellow jackets buzzing around at the shoots (yellow/black shooter shirts) lol.


You're right..... There are jock sniffers everywhere.

I would bet that if this is true and Levi moves to Elite, Elite's sales will go through the roof. Then the question becomes "Can Elite keep up with demand?".


----------



## THE PHENOM

People everywhere coming out of the closet I see....lmao


----------



## Lazarus

SHPoet said:


> You're right..... There are jock sniffers everywhere.
> 
> I would bet that if this is true and Levi moves to Elite, Elite's sales will go through the roof. Then the question becomes "Can Elite keep up with demand?".


What you're missing is this; In Pro (ESPN type) sports the product is the team. Teams get better because of competition for players. In Archery the product is the bow. If we begin to see more competition for players between the manufacturers because of a bow design the consumer will benefit. The industry will benefit as well. 

Having said that, I just hope this is all true. Maybe someone will figure out how to make a binary cam bow shoot perfect, (something that hasn't really been done yet.) Or better yet, one of the existing U.S. players will manufacture a true shoot through system. Competition is good.


----------



## Kstigall

*It is NOT a bad thing that Levi can draw this much attention! Good for him and it is probably good for his wallet. 
Is there another archer that could do this on AT without doing something negative?*

This thread has had over 37,000 views!


----------



## Lazarus

Kstigall said:


> *It is NOT a bad thing that Levi can draw this much attention! Good for him and it is probably good for his wallet.
> Is there another archer that could do this on AT without doing something negative?*
> 
> This thread has had over 37,000 views!


Amen to that! And there's few if any in the industry that would be more deserving. 

He's a totally class act.


----------



## J-Daddy

Brown Hornet said:


> I don't know of he is going to Elite or not....and really don't care who he goes to as far as my bow choice goes....
> 
> But if you really think they can't "afford" him... You might have slipped and bumped your head in the past 5 years really hard. You may not remember doing it...but you bumped it none the less.
> 
> Nobody in archery is making Lebron money from a company...but if you think any bow company worth a damn can't afford to pay any top archer..... If they want to your sadly mistaken.
> 
> PRIME can afford Dave Cousins....who sold about as many bows since they dropped a bow line as Elite has sold in the past 6 months but they can't pay Levi...and they own CBE and Scott and have been around for how long now?
> 
> Hell they could pay Levi just off of CBE or Scott money from this past year.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can name more than one bow company that couldn't afford to pay him ... Well they might be able to sign 1 check but after that they'd have to lock the doors because they couldn't pay the electric bill anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


----------



## 67raiders

Alot of people are going to be surprised with the changes.


----------



## Panthers71

well i've heard from several people levi is leaving, im not for sure because well none of us really know, but i am very interested to say the least.


----------



## slicktrick

AR&BOW said:


> I would put money on that not happening.[/QUOT
> 
> I will take this bet. Let me know the amount.


----------



## Inc.

If you cant be an athlete be an athletic supporter


----------



## NCBuckNBass

I still don't get it. The guy means nothing to me and I love bowhunting and archery in general. I do enjoy Lee and Tiffany's show once in awhile. But I could care less what bow they shoot. I'd be stunned to find out there are more than 1000 people in the whole country that would only buy the bow Levi shoots. Mathews has so much much market share because they saturate media with advertising and that works on the feeble minded which this country is not in short supply. They would have the same market share minus 1000 if they had random models holding their bows. Spokespeople in general are way overrated and way overpaid. Besides, Mathews bows are lame anyway. I can't fathom how anyone would prefer one.


----------



## naturemade

18 pages of could care less.... Hahaha....looks different to me.


----------



## tpentecost83

SHPoet said:


> You're right..... There are jock sniffers everywhere.
> 
> I would bet that if this is true and Levi moves to Elite, Elite's sales will go through the roof. Then the question becomes "Can Elite keep up with demand?".


While back I heard elite was working on getting CNC machines big enough to cut there own risers.... most of the time my dealer had to wait on bows was because they were "waiting on risers".... if they can cut their own will speed up the production process IMO....


----------



## OctoberAssassin

NCBuckNBass said:


> I still don't get it. The guy means nothing to me and I love bowhunting and archery in general. I do enjoy Lee and Tiffany's show once in awhile. But I could care less what bow they shoot. I'd be stunned to find out there are more than 1000 people in the whole country that would only buy the bow Levi shoots. Mathews has so much much market share because they saturate media with advertising and that works on the feeble minded which this country is not in short supply. They would have the same market share minus 1000 if they had random models holding their bows. Spokespeople in general are way overrated and way overpaid. Besides, Mathews bows are lame anyway. I can't fathom how anyone would prefer one.


Trust me advertising with celebrities work and work well. People in an entire different tax bracket than you and I spend countless hours researching such things. As for Mathews they are great bows. Worry free smooth drawing great shooting I shoot new bows almost every year they come out and my legacy after 12 years shoots almost as well as any on the market minus a few ftps. Mathews bows are very well built generally don't need to be tuned much simply pick them up and go hunt.

I doubt the only reason they have been the leader in the industry is fancy advertising sure they advertise well but they also make a great product. We live in a Capitalist society I give them kudos for being the best company in the industry "this doesn't mean the best bow" despite me personally thinking they are the best for me. There is no denying they are the best company from a marketing sales advertising standpoint.


----------



## Whaack

Elite does all their own machining now. That was the delay last year. They were getting up to speed with insure machines.


----------



## jimb

I'm high jacking, when did elite stop using barnsdale limbs?


----------



## rodney482

You should have just stopped at "I still dont get it" pretty obvious you never will.

Maybe go check out the anything and everything section??





NCBuckNBass said:


> I still don't get it. The guy means nothing to me and I love bowhunting and archery in general. I do enjoy Lee and Tiffany's show once in awhile. But I could care less what bow they shoot. I'd be stunned to find out there are more than 1000 people in the whole country that would only buy the bow Levi shoots. Mathews has so much much market share because they saturate media with advertising and that works on the feeble minded which this country is not in short supply. They would have the same market share minus 1000 if they had random models holding their bows. Spokespeople in general are way overrated and way overpaid. Besides, Mathews bows are lame anyway. I can't fathom how anyone would prefer one.


----------



## rodney482

jimb said:


> I'm high jacking, when did elite stop using barnsdale limbs?


They still use Barnsdale


----------



## 138104

jimb said:


> I'm high jacking, when did elite stop using barnsdale limbs?


They still do.


----------



## stehawk

rodney482 said:


> You should have just stopped at "I still dont get it" pretty obvious you never will.
> 
> Maybe go check out the anything and everything section??


I think you give yourself too much credit fanboy. He had it pretty much pegged----just wasn't to your liking.


----------



## Inc.

When Levi is shooting for Elite , what Camo scheme do you think he will use on East Coast Hunts ?


----------



## Beentown

Inc. said:


> When Levi is shooting for Elite , what Camo scheme do you think he will use on East Coast Hunts ?


Don't know but I am sure it will have a bolt cutter caddy so he can fit right in... :eek2:


----------



## Inc.

When Levi is shooting for Elite will he start to order French Toast at Waffle House ?


----------



## dairyboy4

Beentown said:


> Don't know but I am sure it will have a bolt cutter caddy so he can fit right in... :eek2:


Now that right there was a shot........and not over the bow of the boat either!!!!!!!!


----------



## THE PHENOM

Yeah I cant wait till he goes to Elite so all the maffews fan boys can flock over their never owning one thinking they know everything about them....lmao


----------



## BowHuntnKY

rodney482 said:


> They still use Barnsdale





Perry24 said:


> They still do.



Seen 2013 elite with tags that said Gordon glass limbs.


----------



## nhns4

THE PHENOM said:


> Yeah I cant wait till he goes to Elite so all the maffews fan boys can flock over their never owning one thinking they know everything about them....lmao


They dont even know anything about the mathews bow they shoot aside from its mathews and awesome lol (not all of you are like this. Just feeding the fun)

Elite


----------



## sagecreek

BowHuntnKY said:


> Seen 2013 elite with tags that said Gordon glass limbs.


They all buy their raw material from Gordon Composites, even Barnsdale.


----------



## hjort jagare

BowHuntnKY said:


> Seen 2013 elite with tags that said Gordon glass limbs.


Barnsdale like most all the others use Gordon Glass.


----------



## jimb

BowHuntnKY said:


> Seen 2013 elite with tags that said Gordon glass limbs.


Thats what I was talking about, you would think that if it was Barnsdale then they would want to advertise that and not say Gordon on the tags.


----------



## Bryan Thacker

THE PHENOM said:


> Who cares where he goes....I bet he is freaked out from all the man love....Never seen so many people on another mans #@t$...





THE PHENOM said:


> I hope your right or pse gets him.....


Too weird!!!


----------



## Inc.

He will always be shooting for the lord


----------



## a1hoyt.ca

U mean to tell me that Elite can now afford Levi's. Heck I thought every one could own Levi's.


----------



## Inc.

Does Elite have adjustable hats with velcro or do they use plastic pop rivits ?


----------



## jbogacki

My hats off to the company that signs Levi. 

I have watched him for a couple years now and the guy is a class act. The way he handles himself and presents himself he is truly a positive role model in the archery world. I have never met him or talked to him - but he seems to treat everyone as an equal and with respect. He stated (in an interview or on his show)he wants to do what he can to give back to archery since it has given him so much and opened doors for him. A bow manufacturer couldn't find a better person to represent their company. The guy is a great role model and that's what the world needs these days. They need a guy like him and not like these pro sports athletes.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

stehawk said:


> I think you give yourself too much credit fanboy. He had it pretty much pegged----just wasn't to your liking.


So Rodney is somehow now an Elite fanboy?!?!? How is that even possible??????


----------



## rodney482

TexasCanesFan said:


> So Rodney is somehow now an Elite fanboy?!?!? How is that even possible??????


Rodney is a bowhunting fanboy 

I do like the direction Elite is going.. Gonna be lots of happy Elite supporters in 2014


----------



## sagecreek

rodney482 said:


> Rodney is a bowhunting fanboy
> 
> I do like the direction Elite is going.. Gonna be lots of happy Elite supporters in 2014


I was already happy with Elites. But can't wait for 2014.


----------



## pbuck

naturemade said:


> 18 pages of could care less.... Hahaha....looks different to me.


Word. 

Comical.


----------



## mainehunt

griffwar said:


> This stuff crack's me up who care's.


Then why are you reading it or taking the time to post about it???


----------



## mainehunt

jbogacki said:


> My hats off to the company that signs Levi.
> 
> I have watched him for a couple years now and the guy is a class act. The way he handles himself and presents himself he is truly a positive role model in the archery world. I have never met him or talked to him - but he seems to treat everyone as an equal and with respect. He stated (in an interview or on his show)he wants to do what he can to give back to archery since it has given him so much and opened doors for him. A bow manufacturer couldn't find a better person to represent their company. The guy is a great role model and that's what the world needs these days. They need a guy like him and not like these pro sports athletes.


I agree with you 100%. As I see him on his show, he seems to be wise beyond his years.


----------



## griffwar

Like I said I like to see what everyone is getting their PANTIES in a bunch about!!!


mainehunt said:


> Then why are you reading it or taking the time to post about it???


----------



## J-Daddy

rodney482 said:


> Rodney is a bowhunting fanboy
> 
> I do like the direction Elite is going.. Gonna be lots of happy Elite supporters in 2014


Rodney is also a fanboy of High Fashion!!!


----------



## Kstigall

NCBuckNBass said:


> I still don't get it. The guy means nothing to me and I love bowhunting and archery in general. I do enjoy Lee and Tiffany's show once in awhile. But I could care less what bow they shoot. I'd be stunned to find out there are more than 1000 people in the whole country that would only buy the bow Levi shoots. Mathews has so much much market share because they saturate media with advertising and that works on the feeble minded which this country is not in short supply. They would have the same market share minus 1000 if they had random models holding their bows. Spokespeople in general are way overrated and way overpaid. Besides, Mathews bows are lame anyway. I can't fathom how anyone would prefer one.


:doh: You don't see all the junk outdoorsmen buy every year because of the marketing by the big grinning TV bobble heads? Unfortunately, every year garbage broadheads fly off the shelves because of the money grinning TV guys are paid to rave about the awesomeness of a marginal product. You even say in your post that Mathews is as big as they are because of marketing. I can only hope that whomever signs Levi puts as much money back into archery as Mathews has.

I am not saying Levi can move product like some folks on TV and maybe he can't draw LONG lines of admirers at outdoor shows like Lee and Tiffany. But his "brand" does have value. ANYONE that shoots _any_ kind of competition archery in this country knows who Levi Morgan is. 

This thread is fun. It's like folks talking about a star MLB player and where he'll be playing next year. I doubt if there are many folks that are _really_ concerned about what make bow Levi shoots........... The fact is that which ever brand bow Levi is shooting next year will get a LOT of face time at every venue he attends. This thread alone has put his name in front of thousands of people.


----------



## Lazarus

rodney482 said:


> Rodney is a bowhunting fanboy
> 
> I do like the direction Elite is going.. Gonna be lots of happy Elite supporters in 2014


Yeah, caught that. Was pretty funny.

Some people, if they only had a clue.


----------



## rodney482

J-Daddy said:


> Rodney is also a fanboy of High Fashion!!!


Bingo..


----------



## Tony3708

Kstigall said:


> :doh: You don't see all the junk outdoorsmen buy every year because of the marketing by the big grinning TV bobble heads? Unfortunately, every year garbage broadheads fly off the shelves because of the money grinning TV guys are paid to rave about the awesomeness of a marginal product. You even say in your post that Mathews is as big as they are because of marketing. I can only hope that whomever signs Levi puts as much money back into archery as Mathews has.
> 
> I am not saying Levi can move product like some folks on TV and maybe he can't draw LONG lines of admirers at outdoor shows like Lee and Tiffany. But his "brand" does have value. ANYONE that shoots _any_ kind of competition archery in this country knows who Levi Morgan is.
> 
> This thread is fun. It's like folks talking about a star MLB player and where he'll be playing next year. I doubt if there are many folks that are _really_ concerned about what make bow Levi shoots........... The fact is that which ever brand bow Levi is shooting next year will get a LOT of face time at every venue he attends. This thread alone has put his name in front of thousands of people.


Agree 100%


----------



## J-Daddy

rodney482 said:


> Bingo..


$50 panties move a guy up on the fashion scale...


----------



## THE PHENOM

I don't get the whole role model thing????To kids maybe, but to grown men that's just scary......


----------



## Kstigall

THE PHENOM said:


> I don't get the whole role model thing????To kids maybe, but to grown men that's just scary......


Scary is seeing a long line of folks waiting to get a pic with the folks from Lizard Lick Towing..........THAT was scary!!!


----------



## Lazarus

THE PHENOM said:


> I don't get the whole role model thing????To kids maybe, but to grown men that's just scary......


There's some of us on here that have young kids. We try to lead them in the direction of archery and they get bombarded from about 1000 different directions with other distractions, team sports, video games, etc. Yes, it's great to have a positive, successful, Christian role model that shares your views. Yes, it's good to have a role model like Levi to hold up to your kids just to prove to them that they can be recognized in archery if they work hard enough. AND it's good to hold that role model up to your kids just to prove to them that the old man ain't totally crazy. I have done just that, and it works. 

Thank you again Levi by the way. :smile:


----------



## rodney482

J-Daddy said:


> $50 panties move a guy up on the fashion scale...


Multiple pairs at that


----------



## J-Daddy

rodney482 said:


> Multiple pairs at that


Now your just showing off... Troy did say they looked good on you though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


----------



## TexasCanesFan

J-Daddy said:


> *Now your just showing off...* Troy did say they looked good on you though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


Please do not say "showing off" when the topic is Rodney and his $50 drawers. Bad things man. Bad things.


----------



## rogersaddler

Here is what we know for sure. Levi will be shooting a bow company next year


----------



## rattlinman

NCBuckNBass said:


> I still don't get it. The guy means nothing to me and I love bowhunting and archery in general. I do enjoy Lee and Tiffany's show once in awhile. But I could care less what bow they shoot. I'd be stunned to find out there are more than 1000 people in the whole country that would only buy the bow Levi shoots. Mathews has so much much market share because they saturate media with advertising and that works on the feeble minded which this country is not in short supply. They would have the same market share minus 1000 if they had random models holding their bows. Spokespeople in general are way overrated and way overpaid. Besides, Mathews bows are lame anyway. I can't fathom how anyone would prefer one.


Normally, I would take offense to being called "feeble minded", but considering the source I can understand that it's just your way and you really can't help the deep jealousy you have for people in general that achieve more than you. :wink:

You don't like people because we shoot a Mathews, you don't like people because we use umbrellas to shade the sun or block the wind, you don't people and companies that use spokespeople because they are over-rated....what exactly do you like? 

And just out of curiosity, what does NAASP stand for? I'm assuming you mean NASP?


----------



## rattlinman

Back to topic, if Elite DOES deliver a true shoot-through system....would it be on a Binary cam system platform? 

I don't see how that would work...:set1_thinking:


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> Back to topic, if Elite DOES deliver a true shoot-through system....would it be on a Binary cam system platform?
> 
> I don't see how that would work...:set1_thinking:


I don't believe the Tour changes at all for 2014 so therefore I do not see a true shoot through coming from Elite. 

I think the rest of the lineup changes.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> Normally, I would take offense to being called "feeble minded", but considering the source I can understand that it's just your way and you really can't help the deep jealousy you have for people in general that achieve more than you. :wink:
> 
> You don't like people because we shoot a Mathews, you don't like people because we use umbrellas to shade the sun or block the wind, you don't people and companies that use spokespeople because they are over-rated....what exactly do you like?
> 
> And just out of curiosity, what does NAASP stand for? I'm assuming you mean NASP?


So basically he is saying the way that every major company that makes or sells anything in this country is wrong. 

Nike must be a bunch of morons. I bet they don't make money at all.


----------



## rogersaddler

rogersaddler said:


> Here is what we know for sure. Levi will be shooting a bow company next year


Levi will be shooting for a bow company, not shooting a bow company..lol I don't know how to edit or remove a post


----------



## rattlinman

TexasCanesFan said:


> So basically he is saying the way that every major company that makes or sells anything in this country is wrong.
> 
> Nike must be a bunch of morons. I bet they don't make money at all.


We're all morons brother....and some of us are feeble-minded morons! :laugh:

So did ya get the Creed or are you looking at something else?

So the Tour is the same...still using the Binary or are they getting jumpy about the patent infringement lawsuit? 

Going to a shoot-through dual cam would avoid that...........


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> We're all morons brother....and some of us are feeble-minded morons! :laugh:
> 
> So did ya get the Creed or are you looking at something else?
> 
> So the Tour is the same...still using the Binary or are they getting jumpy about the patent infringement lawsuit?
> 
> Going to a shoot-through dual cam would avoid that...........


I bet we will all know soon.


----------



## naturemade

Is it possible for Elite to make Levi a single cam target bow? When does the patent run out? It has to be getting close.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

naturemade said:


> Is it possible for Elite to make Levi a single cam target bow? When does the patent run out? It has to be getting close.


I think it is far more the Indian when it comes to guys at Levi's level. I am sure he can make any bow work for him.


----------



## naturemade

TexasCanesFan said:


> I think it is far more the Indian when it comes to guys at Levi's level. I am sure he can make any bow work for him.


This is true, but I figured Elite would roll out the welcome carpet in a big way.


----------



## Doebuster

He's going to pse ! He's not going to elite !


----------



## TexasCanesFan

naturemade said:


> This is true, but I figured Elite would roll out the welcome carpet in a big way.


But if they changed everything "for" Levi wouldn't that be an inadvertent bash to all of their current bows, cam system, everything???? Even if they end up with Levi I do not see the "Elite bow" changing. 

Him winning with what they make right now is a far bigger "victory" for Elite. It makes their bows world class if you will. 

That is the angle I would go if I was Pete Crawford and TOG. Other way is a loss IMO.


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> But if they changed everything "for" Levi wouldn't that be an inadvertent bash to all of their current bows, cam system, everything???? Even if they end up with Levi I do not see the "Elite bow" changing.
> 
> Him winning with what they make right now is a far bigger "victory" for Elite. It makes their bows world class if you will.
> 
> That is the angle I would go if I was Pete Crawford and TOG. Other way is a loss IMO.


I could see him having "a say" in their target bow tho. 

Elite


----------



## TexasCanesFan

nhns4 said:


> I could see him having "a say" in their target bow tho.
> 
> Elite


Maybe but I think it will stay true to what an Elite bow is.


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> Maybe but I think it will stay true to what an Elite bow is.


Option of cable stops maybe. Since hes use to a spongy wall. 

Elite


----------



## TexasCanesFan

nhns4 said:


> Option of cable stops maybe. Since hes use to a spongy wall.
> 
> Elite


Like the 2012 Badger cam would be PERFECT. Those cams are awesome.


----------



## NY911

Doebuster said:


> He's going to pse ! He's not going to elite !


Man I hope you're right! That would be freaking great!


----------



## jsmbly

I think I read somewhere he is going to Parker


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> Like the 2012 Badger cam would be PERFECT. Those cams are awesome.


I saw those cams on an elite. It looked good lol. 

Elite


----------



## NCBuckNBass

rattlinman said:


> Normally, I would take offense to being called "feeble minded", but considering the source I can understand that it's just your way and you really can't help the deep jealousy you have for people in general that achieve more than you. :wink:
> 
> You don't like people because we shoot a Mathews, you don't like people because we use umbrellas to shade the sun or block the wind, you don't people and companies that use spokespeople because they are over-rated....what exactly do you like?
> 
> And just out of curiosity, what does NAASP stand for? I'm assuming you mean NASP?


Pathetic..........

When I was a kid we all had posters of Farrah Fawcett . I'd hate to see your posters................


----------



## nhns4

NCBuckNBass said:


> Pathetic..........
> 
> When I was a kid we all had posters of Farrah Fawcett . I'd hate to see your posters................


I hope it doesnt rain. Since you are anti umbrella. 

Elite


----------



## THE PHENOM

All will be revealed soon.....


----------



## Garceau

nhns4 said:


> Option of cable stops maybe. Since hes use to a spongy wall.
> 
> Elite


A few elite pros already shoot them off the cables........

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## NCBuckNBass

jsmbly said:


> I think I read somewhere he is going to Parker




Which would be funny. Then we could watch the lemmings follow.


----------



## rattlinman

NCBuckNBass said:


> Pathetic..........
> 
> When I was a kid we all had posters of Farrah Fawcett . I'd hate to see your posters................


Oh yeah, you got me. 

You win. :set1_applaud:


----------



## rattlinman

TexasCanesFan said:


> But if they changed everything "for" Levi wouldn't that be an inadvertent bash to all of their current bows, cam system, everything???? Even if they end up with Levi I do not see the "Elite bow" changing.
> 
> Him winning with what they make right now is a far bigger "victory" for Elite. It makes their bows world class if you will.
> 
> That is the angle I would go if I was Pete Crawford and TOG. Other way is a loss IMO.


That is a dang good point! I'm sitting here thinking absolutely what you are saying...that if they come out with some new cam, they are telling the archery community that he couldn't win with the inferior 2-track Binary cam.

IF he comes out and dominates with the 2-track, then all of us non-believers (me included) would have to eat crow and admit that the Binary 2-track is accurate and consistent.


----------



## Hoytboy2

It doesn't matter what that guy shoots ,he's gonna clean your clocks with any bow he shoots...... Besides he's going to XI I heard


----------



## Inc.

jsmbly said:


> I think I read somewhere he is going to Parker


Pearson , all I can say at this point it has to do with Elites hats of all things.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> That is a dang good point! I'm sitting here thinking absolutely what you are saying...that if they come out with some new cam, they are telling the archery community that he couldn't win with the inferior 2-track Binary cam.
> 
> IF he comes out and dominates with the 2-track, then all of us non-believers (me included) would have to eat crow and admit that the Binary 2-track is accurate and consistent.


Exactly. I would think they would have to stay with a 2 track to keep any credibility. Time will tell though.

I personally believe it makes zero difference what he shoots. He will tweak it to him and continue at his current level. No matter what bow.


----------



## Lazarus

rattlinman said:


> IF he comes out and dominates with the 2-track, then all of us non-believers (me included) would have to eat crow and admit that the Binary 2-track is accurate and consistent.


IF this is all true and he shoots the two track I'd say his 3D scores will improve over what he already shoots. (Hard to believe I know.) His spot scores will not improve however. Period. Unless of course there's some magic voodoo out there that no one has disclosed that can make a two track shoot flawlessly at 20 yards. My .02


----------



## Garceau

TexasCanesFan said:


> Exactly. I would think they would have to stay with a 2 track to keep any credibility. Time will tell though.
> 
> I.


Will they they be able too? Are they caught up in any of the lawsuit issues, i really dont know....

Agree on second part for sure.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## cicero

Garceau said:


> Will they they be able too? Are they caught up in any of the lawsuit issues, i really dont know....
> 
> Agree on second part for sure.
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


From what I understand Elite is not part of the lawsuit. The have some agreement already, not 100% but I believe correct.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

cicero said:


> From what I understand Elite is not part of the lawsuit. The have some agreement already, not 100% but I believe correct.


I believe that to be the case as well from previous conversations.


----------



## rodney482

cicero said:


> From what I understand Elite is not part of the lawsuit. The have some agreement already, not 100% but I believe correct.


Post a link to this lawsuit....


----------



## rattlinman

Hoytboy2 said:


> It doesn't matter what that guy shoots ,he's gonna clean your clocks with any bow he shoots...... Besides he's going to XI I heard


That's no joke! The man can shoot! :thumbs_up


----------



## Yichi

Breaking news, hes going to traditional archery... or starting his own bow company... or becomming an astronaut...


----------



## LoneWolfArcher

This thread is full of archers helping archers.......................


----------



## Lazarus

Yichi said:


> Breaking news, hes going to traditional archery... or starting his own bow company... or becomming an astronaut...





LoneWolfArcher said:


> This thread is full of archers helping archers.......................


First rule about good humor...........it needs to be funny. :smile:


----------



## Garceau

cicero said:


> From what I understand Elite is not part of the lawsuit. The have some agreement already, not 100% but I believe correct.


I had heard similar, but couldnt say for sure.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


----------



## romad2006

I heard Levi was actually retiring from archery. How oh how will the world continue to spin?


----------



## Yichi

romad2006 said:


> I heard Levi was actually retiring from archery. How oh how will the world continue to spin?


in reverse...


----------



## ThunderEagle

In the brush with greatness category, I think I saw Levi at Cabelas in Wheeling WV. Saw the Name The Game truck and trailer in parking lot. Asked at the door if he was making an appearance, he was not. Saw him checking out, wife told me to go talk to him, but I wasn't going to bother the man when he was shopping.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Mahly

Lazarus said:


> IF this is all true and he shoots the two track I'd say his 3D scores will improve over what he already shoots. (Hard to believe I know.) His spot scores will not improve however. Period. Unless of course there's some magic voodoo out there that no one has disclosed that can make a two track shoot flawlessly at 20 yards. My .02


Ummmm? 2 tracks can work perfectly at 20 yards indoors.
If you can shoot 80, why not 20? 

My 2 track is perfectly capable of perfect indoor scores. Don't shoot much Vegas 3 spot, but it's plenty good for 5 spot 300 60X even with skinny arrows!

Kinda wishing he was going to Strother with all this "extend your range" business.


----------



## MYMAXXIS

ThunderEagle said:


> In the brush with greatness category, I think I saw Levi at Cabelas in Wheeling WV. Saw the Name The Game truck and trailer in parking lot. Asked at the door if he was making an appearance, he was not. Saw him checking out, wife told me to go talk to him, but I wasn't going to bother the man when he was shopping.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


Where is your loyalty..her or to us?


----------



## Lazarus

Mahly said:


> Ummmm? 2 tracks can work perfectly at 20 yards indoors.
> If you can shoot 80, why not 20?
> 
> My 2 track is perfectly capable of perfect indoor scores. Don't shoot much Vegas 3 spot, but it's plenty good for 5 spot 300 60X even with skinny arrows!
> 
> Kinda wishing he was going to Strother with all this "extend your range" business.


Sure. You can shoot 60x's with a Moxie. I have two by the way. The bow is saweeet.....just like the Elite. But it's not perfect. Why 80 and not 20? Easy, because the bow has to be flawless on a Vegas face to shoot a 330. 

Now, not being a d!<k, but just curious; who has taken a two track bow to the "perfect" level consistently? I'm sure there is someone, but I admit I don't know who they are!


----------



## ThunderEagle

MYMAXXIS said:


> Where is your loyalty..her or to us?


Obviously neither. She told me to say something to him. Had he not been in the middle of checking out, I may have.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Mahly

Lazarus said:


> Sure. You can shoot 60x's with a Moxie. I have two by the way. The bow is saweeet.....just like the Elite. But it's not perfect. Why 80 and not 20? Easy, because the bow has to be flawless on a Vegas face to shoot a 330.
> 
> Now, not being a d!<k, but just curious; who has taken a two track bow to the "perfect" level consistently? I'm sure there is someone, but I admit I don't know who they are!


I have a feeling that more than one 330 has been shot with a 2 track bow. Not many 2 track bow companies sponsor shooters like Hoyt/Mathews/PSE.

I'm certain a top level archer could hit a 330 with my bow. I have and shoot hybrids and 2 cam bows with a shoot through harness... I shoot the 2 track bow better than my other bows. I think they can be easily shot to 330 by people capable of that level of shooting.


----------



## Lazarus

Mahly said:


> I'm certain a top level archer could hit a 330 with my bow. I have and shoot hybrids and 2 cam bows with a shoot through harness... I shoot the 2 track bow better than my other bows. I think they can be easily shot to 330 by people capable of that level of shooting.


Of course they can. But not consistently and certainly not "easily." They just won't tune to do it "easily." Not that I have any experience at it or anything.


----------



## SX?

rodney482 said:


> post a link to this lawsuit....



^^^^^ this ^^^^^


----------



## SHPoet

I wonder if Levi saw the new Elite lineup and is panicking???


----------



## panther08

I put my money on pse getting him sorry guys.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rodney482 said:


> Post a link to this lawsuit....





SX? said:


> ^^^^^ this ^^^^^


Like you 2 would know anything?!?!?!


----------



## Garceau

TexasCanesFan said:


> Like you 2 would know anything?!?!?!


Hmmmm.....you were the one that told me, thought it was credible.....lol


----------



## JimmyP

I bet he works a new deal with Mathews


----------



## slicktrick

panther08 said:


> I put my money on pse getting him sorry guys.


I'll take that bet

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## panther08

I'll bet you if you want, I'm just going of a pro friend of mine. But hey you never know


----------



## bowhuntermitch

SHPoet said:


> I wonder if Levi saw the new Elite lineup and is panicking???


If he is joining Elite, he's had these bows in his hands for ALONG time, and probably even helped with some design. 

I'm not sure if you guys read Petes response to all of the Elite thread but he mentioned that some of the new bows have a "shark fin" that protrudes off the back of the riser. He said this is for adding a side bar easily. If my memory serves me correctly, Mr.Morgan is a BIG fan of side bars on all of his rigs. Hunting bows included. To me, that says something. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII


----------



## zonker892

Levi is going to HOYT.... Hes sick of shooting for mathews because they are only interested in making hunting bows. Thats why they have had the same crappy design in their target bows for the last 5+ years. :wink:


----------



## Gerard18

rogersaddler said:


> If Levi does switch thats his business. It's not the bow that makes the shooter a good shot it's the shooter that makes the bow shoot good. Will the sale of Elite go up because of it I'm sure it will. I can remember when Mathews first started out with their first bow the standard. Matt put has much money into advertising and getting the best shooters he could to represent his company when he first started out and still is. Yes they do make a good product and so does Elite


Well said here! Chasing the all mighty $ makes people to lose track how they got to the top.I know these are extreme examples but,how did Rory do his year since leaving titlest? How did Albert Pujols do this year leaving St. Louis? They left to get paid,and did nothin. I wish Levi, as everyone else the best in whatever brand you choose.


----------



## Gerard18

zonker892 said:


> Levi is going to HOYT.... Hes sick of shooting for mathews because they are only interested in making hunting bows. Thats why they have had the same crappy design in their target bows for the last 5+ years. :wink:


There's an old saying bro! If its not broke, don't fix it..


----------



## stody_dod

zonker892 said:


> Levi is going to HOYT.... Hes sick of shooting for mathews because they are only interested in making hunting bows. Thats why they have had the same crappy design in their target bows for the last 5+ years. :wink:


levi is the reason Mathews is still making to apex, if you remember they stopped production for a year or two when the triumph was supposed to be the new and best thing. levi wanted nothing to do with that bow and then Mathews went back to making the BEST target bow out there in my opinion


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Leviticus said:


> Hey everybody Levi Here I appreciate all the comments and yea even the one about the Lanacaster commercial...any way I wish I could tell you all what the plan is or if I'm making a move and if I was making a move where it would be but truth is I couldn't say a word or do anything until Nov 1st...so until then happy hunting and be safe everyone! I do enjoy reading everyones thoughts on the subject though! Take care y'all! -Levi Morgan-


November 1st...only a month now til he unveils the new improved Xi line...


----------



## naturemade

Everybody wants to shoot for Hoyt and take a pay cut.


----------



## rodney482

JimmyP said:


> I bet he works a new deal with Mathews


Not a chance... not even a slim one.


----------



## -bowfreak-

rodney482 said:


> Not a chance... not even a slim one.



Levi is switching to Barnett. I saw him in the local wal-mart purchasing a bow.


----------



## kravguy

zonker892 said:


> Levi is going to HOYT.... Hes sick of shooting for mathews because they are only interested in making hunting bows. Thats why they have had the same crappy design in their target bows for the last 5+ years. :wink:


Jeeze, who said they changed anything with their hunting bows since that time?


----------



## Mestang99

naturemade said:


> Everybody wants to shoot for Hoyt and take a pay cut.


Don't let those big checks fool you... There is more money in the background than what we see.


----------



## Kstigall

My crystal ball says....... With so many weenie boys intimidated by real bows the sale of X-bows is exploding and Levi realizes with all the young studs gunning for him his future is in shooting and selling x-bows before he turns into an also ran!!!!










Me thinks I need to take a sledge hammer to my crystal ball. I suspect it's a crystal meth ball.........................


----------



## Lazarus

All of you are mistaken. This just in; Levi's really wanting to shake things up. He's signing with Black Widow. :shade:


----------



## mtn3531

Alpha Burnt said:


> November 1st...only a month now til he unveils the new improved Xi line...


...and all this time I thought it was down between Whisper Creek, ProLine or Indian. Shows what I know


----------



## Panthers71

It doesn't matter what company or bow levi shoots, that man can and will flat shoot good. Its that simple, time will telll if he makes a switch


----------



## Kstigall

panthers71 said:


> it doesn't matter what company or bow levi shoots, that man can and will flat shoot good. Its that simple, time will telll if he makes a switch


:crazy: Yea right....... and I suppose the next thing you are going to tell me is that the tooth fairy isn't real! Get a grip! If Levi doesn't shoot a Mathews next year he won't place in a single tournament. Without a Mathews in his hands him and Samantha will be in a booth selling braided slings and velvet Elvis's by June 2014!!!


----------



## Viper69

Kstigall said:


> :crazy: Yea right....... and I suppose the next thing you are going to tell me is that the tooth fairy isn't real! Get a grip! If Levi doesn't shoot a Mathews next year he won't place in a single tournament. Without a Mathews in his hands him and Samantha will be in a booth selling braided slings and velvet Elvis's by June 2014!!!


I highly doubt that. You really think he can only shoot a Mathews? I hope your joking

Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Mahly

Kstigall said:


> :crazy: Yea right....... and I suppose the next thing you are going to tell me is that the tooth fairy isn't real! Get a grip! If Levi doesn't shoot a Mathews next year he won't place in a single tournament. Without a Mathews in his hands him and Samantha will be in a booth selling braided slings and velvet Elvis's by June 2014!!!


So your saying all the guys who shot Hoyt or PSE, are much better archers, and were handicapped by their bows so badly, a guy like Levi could dominate because he had a Mathews? Of course that means all the rest of Mathews' shooters couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if Levi could beat them too, even though they had the magical Mathews bow as well?


----------



## Kstigall

Panthers71 said:


> It doesn't matter what company or bow levi shoots, that man can and will flat shoot good. Its that simple, time will telll if he makes a switch





Kstigall said:


> :crazy: Yea right....... and I suppose the next thing you are going to tell me is that the tooth fairy isn't real! Get a grip! If Levi doesn't shoot a Mathews next year he won't place in a single tournament. Without a Mathews in his hands him and Samantha will be in a booth selling braided slings and velvet Elvis's by June 2014!!!





Viper69 said:


> I highly doubt that. You really think he can only shoot a Mathews? I hope your joking
> 
> Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


Everyone knows I don't play.......This is some serious stuff here! Heck, Levi's never even won a Virginia state championship and I have a bunch. He knows better than to bring a bow into my hood...........


----------



## Panthers71

Kstigall said:


> :crazy: Yea right....... and I suppose the next thing you are going to tell me is that the tooth fairy isn't real! Get a grip! If Levi doesn't shoot a Mathews next year he won't place in a single tournament. Without a Mathews in his hands him and Samantha will be in a booth selling braided slings and velvet Elvis's by June 2014!!!


That's a good try, but Mathews isn't the only company too win tournaments, just wanted to point this out to you


----------



## Rex D

Kstigall said:


> Everyone knows I don't play.......This is some serious stuff here! Heck, Levi's never even won a Virginia state championship and I have a bunch. He knows better than to bring a bow into my hood...........


THis had me Loling!!!

You crack me up man.. but not as much as the guys who think you're actually being serious.


----------



## Panthers71

Im prolly one that thought he was being serious to.


----------



## Viper69

I would like to think he's not serious. Lol 

Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Kstigall

Panthers71 said:


> Im prolly one that thought he was being serious to.





Viper69 said:


> I would like to think he's not serious. Lol
> 
> Sent from my A100 using Tapatalk 4


I do everything seriously!! 

In this case I thought I was being seriously ridiculous but it seems I was seriously screwing with some folks! Sorry about that. I'll try to be less subtle next time.........


----------



## Panthers71

Kstigall said:


> I do everything seriously!!
> 
> In this case I thought I was being seriously ridiculous but it seems I was seriously screwing with some folks! Sorry about that. I'll try to be less subtle next time.........


You were a little but its all cool


----------



## Viper69

Kstigall said:


> I do everything seriously!!
> 
> In this case I thought I was being seriously ridiculous but it seems I was seriously screwing with some folks! Sorry about that. I'll try to be less subtle next time.........


No problem at all. Believe it or not there are people that think only Mathews makes good bows. Lol


----------



## Rolo

Kstigall said:


> I do everything seriously!!
> 
> In this case I thought I was being seriously ridiculous but it seems I was seriously screwing with some folks! Sorry about that. *I'll try to be less subtle next time*.........



Say it ain't so! Way too much entertainment value will be lost...


----------



## darton3d

Kstigall said:


> I do everything seriously!!
> 
> In this case I thought I was being seriously ridiculous but it seems I was seriously screwing with some folks! Sorry about that. I'll try to be less subtle next time.........


You forgot to use your sarcasm sign!!

Personally, I thought it was hilarious!


----------



## Kstigall

darton3d said:


> You forgot to use your sarcasm sign!!
> 
> Personally, I thought it was hilarious!


Exactly!! :becky:


----------



## field14

KStigall...you have been really LUCKY.

If I would have posted anything of that nature, there would have been people jumping down my throat big time about bashing the NFAA or 3-D or whatever...they'd accuse me of "hating 3-D" of always being negative, and all sorts of crap like that.

You must be one of the "special ones" that can post tongue in cheek or sarcastically and not get nailed to the cross for it.

field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## Wulfwick

field14 said:


> KStigall...you have been really LUCKY.
> 
> If I would have posted anything of that nature, there would have been people jumping down my throat big time about bashing the NFAA or 3-D or whatever...they'd accuse me of "hating 3-D" of always being negative, and all sorts of crap like that.
> 
> You must be one of the "special ones" that can post tongue in cheek or sarcastically and not get nailed to the cross for it.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


change your avatar to something like his and you'll get a little more slack..


----------



## Rolo

field14 said:


> KStigall...you have been really LUCKY.
> 
> If I would have posted anything of that nature, there would have been people jumping down my throat big time about bashing the NFAA or 3-D or whatever...they'd accuse me of "hating 3-D" of always being negative, and all sorts of crap like that.
> 
> You must be one of the "special ones" that can post tongue in cheek or sarcastically and not get nailed to the cross for it.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Well...duh. 

Kidding...just kidd'n. :tongue:


----------



## novich69

Kstigall said:


> Everyone knows I don't play.......This is some serious stuff here! Heck, Levi's never even won a Virginia state championship and I have a bunch. He knows better than to bring a bow into my hood...........


Even The Hood fears you!


----------



## field14

Wulfwick said:


> change your avatar to something like his and you'll get a little more slack..


Nah.....Once a "fly-boy" always a "flyboy". I swim like a rock - - so couldn't have ever been a "swabby". ROFLMAO.

T


----------



## Kstigall

field14 said:


> KStigall...you have been really LUCKY.
> 
> If I would have posted anything of that nature, there would have been people jumping down my throat big time about bashing the NFAA or 3-D or whatever...they'd accuse me of "hating 3-D" of always being negative, and all sorts of crap like that.
> 
> You must be one of the "special ones" that can post tongue in cheek or sarcastically and not get nailed to the cross for it.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


I am very special but Lucky has nothing to do with it. It's all skill with a healthy dose of awesomeness.
Some have tried but they only end up nailing themselves.......and that is NEVER pretty. 



novich69 said:


> Even The Hood fears you!


Yes, yes he does.


----------



## rogersaddler

I heard that Mathews is coming out with a special Levi Morgan bow. It will part of their Elite Line up of bows


----------



## pjcohen

Elite got me. I bought a new 2012 elite answer. I do not know if they got Levi but they got me and I am a Levite. All I can say is that for this old archer that the elite has a great valley and an excellent shoot-ability. 
Thanks Jack, my old archer friend, for putting me on to elite. Shoot straight! PHIl


----------



## pjcohen

All I can say is Elite got me. I bought a new 2012 elite answer. I do not know if they got Levi but they got me and I am a Levite. For this old archer the elite has a great valley & excellent shoot-ability. 
Thanks Jack, my old archer friend, for putting me on to elite. Shoot straight! PHIL


----------



## Absolute Archer

rogersaddler said:


> I heard that Mathews is coming out with a special Levi Morgan bow. It will part of their Elite Line up of bows


That's funny.


----------



## ex-diver

22 pages wow and I'm adding to it. 
If Mr. Levi does choose another business partner wait for it ...
" The Great Carnac says....Strother "








Heard the subliminal message on Name the Game tonight when Levi gave his shooting tip. He said he was gonna show us how to extend your range! Nothing but fun!

Best of luck to you Levi and family.
Out for now


----------



## Gavin1107

Kstigall said:


> Everyone knows I don't play.......This is some serious stuff here! Heck, Levi's never even won a Virginia state championship and I have a bunch. He knows better than to bring a bow into my hood...........


Holy cow, you had me laughing my butt off, it was almost as funny as the guys that thought you were being serious.


----------



## alwayslookin

Kstigall.....the man the legend....and ALWAYS....ALWAYS as subtle as a dump truck on a bumper car track.
But I have never seen him fish......ever.....
The entertainment value is priceless.
Go get em champ!


----------



## NM_HighPlains

Rex D said:


> You crack me up man.. but not as much as the guys who think *you're* actually being serious.


Congratulations for being the only person in this 22 page long thread to spell "you're" as a contraction for "you are". Here... fill this out and stick it on your (<- correct use) computer.


----------



## lavazhole

Any updates?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Kstigall

Levi was last seen wearing a black hat rolling through Lancaster, PA in a buggy blasting rap from an old school boom box....... It's not clear if his Cadillac broke down or if he was just slumming with the locals. Lancaster Archery Supply may have the inside scoop.........someone call and ask them.


----------



## Wulfwick

Kstigall said:


> Levi was last seen wearing a black hat rolling through Lancaster, PA in a buggy blasting rap from an old school boom box....... It's not clear if his Cadillac broke down or if he was just slumming with the locals. Lancaster Archery Supply may have the inside scoop.........someone call and ask them.


that was Darrin Christenberry, not Levi.. geez.
Last I heard, Levi was reported to be gallivanting around the Gettysburg battle fields, stark naked, in protest of the government shut-down. Rumors have also started circulating that the deer herd in and around the area have seemed to diminish. But my sources are un-convinced that the 2 instances are connected.


----------



## sagecreek

Levi called me and wanted me to tune his new bow.

He knows I'm an Elite guru. :spy:


----------



## -bowfreak-

Rumor has it Levi is leaning toward Elite. lain:


----------



## Kstigall

sagecreek said:


> Levi called me and wanted me to tune his new bow.
> 
> He knows I'm an Elite guru. :spy:


I heard the same! I hope Samantha gets him to a neurologist quick. Something is definitely WRONG! He's young though so the outlook is good.

Even if he is in bad shape he would still be favored to win another SOY..........if he signs with PSE.


----------



## 3-D Junkie

Levi IS in Lancaster. He is going to be on the next season of Amish Mafia. I heard that Samantha is going to be working a vegetable stand on the side of the road, while Levi is crackin' skulls for the Amish mob.


----------



## namozine

I heard he was dropping archery to train for the next season of " Dancing with the Stars..."


----------



## Panthers71

3-D Junkie said:


> Levi IS in Lancaster. He is going to be on the next season of Amish Mafia. I heard that Samantha is going to be working a vegetable stand on the side of the road, while Levi is crackin' skulls for the Amish mob.


this made me laugh just a little bit:tongue:


----------



## chip shot

If he goes to elite you'll be able to buy a apex 7 for about 300 anywhere because the Levites will jump ship lol
Levites- those who think wearing the same underwear he does gives them a edge lol


----------



## AK&HIboy

*I heard he's shooting a shotty this year?*

Leaked photo from PA


----------



## lavazhole

Its rolled over to his fb page....asking wheres the bow lolz

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## carlosii

chip shot said:


> If he goes to elite you'll be able to buy a apex 7 for about 300 anywhere because the Levites will jump ship lol
> Levites- those who think wearing the same underwear he does gives them a edge lol



you mean they don't??? now you tell me. :angry:


----------



## Longbow42

lavazhole said:


> Any updates?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


​For those who care and I am one who does not, I heard from a very reliable source while in hunting camp that he will be going to Elite and that it is a done deal.


----------



## bows_-_arrows

Longbow42 said:


> ​For those who care and I am one who does not, I heard from a very reliable source while in hunting camp that he will be going to Elite and that it is a done deal.


yeppers...true statement.... $$ does talk......


----------



## blueglide1

Pleeeeeez let it diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL


----------



## ontarget7

I don't really care where he goes, but personally I would not leave Mathews to go to Elite.


----------



## Gerard18

ontarget7 said:


> i don't really care where he goes, but personally i would not leave mathews to go to elite.


amen brother!!!!


----------



## Red57

gerard18 said:


> amen brother!!!!


x 3


----------



## locate101

Red57 said:


> x 3


x 4


----------



## THE PHENOM

bows_-_arrows said:


> yeppers...true statement.... $$ does talk......


If he does go to elite I dont think it was about the money...There is three to four other companies that could have paid him a whole lot more...Pedro would have to take second mortgage on the company to pay him what a few others could have...Rumor is that a few of the top companies didn't want or need him....


----------



## dwagaman

ontarget7 said:


> I don't really care where he goes, but personally I would not leave Mathews to go to Elite.



Lol Mathews........................


----------



## genohuh

THE PHENOM said:


> If he does go to elite I dont think it was about the money...There is three to four other companies that could have paid him a whole lot more...Pedro would have to take second mortgage on the company to pay him what a few others could have...Rumor is that a few of the top companies didn't want or need him....


Probably the funniest post yet... not about $$$$? yea right!! maybe he just likes. NY.... I know Levi but i wouldnt even ask him what he is gonna do.. he will win no matter what he Shoots.. my Opinion is and it is just a opinion that if He goes to Elite i believe its more about his Hunting Show..I read a article where he said his Dream was a Hunting Show.. I mean what more could he Win? his SOY goal has been done. FYI a Bow Companies Tournament Bow sales usually is about 6% of total sales... sooo you do the Math!! any Company that gets Levi will probably put more into his award winning Hunting Show than his Tournament activities.. 94% vs 6% not very hard to figure out...


----------



## juspassinthru

I heard he was leaving archery to take up golf


----------



## Bonecutterx

Hunting shows sell far more bows than target archers.





genohuh said:


> Probably the funniest post yet... not about $$$$? yea right!! maybe he just likes. NY.... I know Levi but i wouldnt even ask him what he is gonna do.. he will win no matter what he Shoots.. my Opinion is and it is just a opinion that if He goes to Elite i believe its more about his Hunting Show..I read a article where he said his Dream was a Hunting Show.. I mean what more could he Win? his SOY goal has been done. FYI a Bow Companies Tournament Bow sales usually is about 6% of total sales... sooo you do the Math!! any Company that gets Levi will probably put more into his award winning Hunting Show than his Tournament activities.. 94% vs 6% not very hard to figure out...


----------



## Bonecutterx

You see people leaving the MMM (mathews marketing machine) for good reasons. 



ontarget7 said:


> I don't really care where he goes, but personally I would not leave Mathews to go to Elite.


----------



## genohuh

Watch for a few more HUGE moves! a cpl more Shockers for sure...


----------



## richl35

Well I heard from my cousins best friends aunts nephews doorman at the hotel she works at that Levi was there meeting Brett Favre in contemplating a purchase of Martin. Since Levi is a type of jeans and Brett Favre represents Wranglers he thought they could get together and purchase Martin. They want to produce bows that shoot footballs made by Rage. You can quote me on this one it's happening!

Sent directly from my thoughts using tinfoil antennas and a stainless mixing bowl helmet.


----------



## dave4

Ahhh BUYING "respect for the game", its got a certain flavor to it.


genohuh said:


> my Opinion is and it is just a opinion that if He goes to Elite i believe its more about his Hunting Show..I read a article where he said his Dream was a Hunting Show..


----------



## bsharkey

genohuh said:


> its more about his Hunting Show..I read a article where he said his Dream was a Hunting Show..



sweet another hunting show to compete against the other 412 hunting shows out there now.if we could just get 6 more reality shows to go with it my tv week will be set.


----------



## Viper69

He is going elite trust me.


----------



## Beentown

I think the free bolt cutters with each bow put it over the top for him!


----------



## nccrutch

I was hoping that PSE would get him, but it's a done deal with Elite. They stepped-up big time! $$$


----------



## Saws Paw

Wow. Eyes are blurry from all 24 pages. But I have some questions as to how pro's get paid.

I assume that each has a base salary based on previous showing and some extra $ for wins....but with the elite (no pun intended) shooters, has there been any contracts that give partial ownership in a company he/she shoots for? If the company is public have any shooters gotten stock options. If privately owned, then outright ownership share. 

The comment has been made that he could outshoot most us with anything that shoots...how much sayso, do the elite shoots get in designing? If so, do they get additional compensation for this? 

I've seen many posts about Levi making more money now....(granted I've seen enough footage to know he can shoot and at his age, shoot for awhile)...but with a wife and a young kid, maybe he's starting to look to the future and not the NOW. Take a base salary cut, get partial ownership of a small comp in return..help it grow through your shooting and advertising...ride it for 12-15yrs....sit back and mentor your son as the next human rangefinder.


----------



## Inc.

Saws Paw said:


> Wow. Eyes are blurry from all 24 pages. But I have some questions as to how pro's get paid.
> 
> I assume that each has a base salary based on previous showing and some extra $ for wins....but with the elite (no pun intended) shooters, has there been any contracts that give partial ownership in a company he/she shoots for? If the company is public have any shooters gotten stock options. If privately owned, then outright ownership share.
> 
> The comment has been made that he could outshoot most us with anything that shoots...how much sayso, do the elite shoots get in designing? If so, do they get additional compensation for this?
> 
> I've seen many posts about Levi making more money now....(granted I've seen enough footage to know he can shoot and at his age, shoot for awhile)...but with a wife and a young kid, maybe he's starting to look to the future and not the NOW. Take a base salary cut, get partial ownership of a small comp in return..help it grow through your shooting and advertising...ride it for 12-15yrs....sit back and mentor your son as the next human rangefinder.


Smartest post in this thread


----------



## reaper159

Come November it'll be official....not long now!


----------



## Garceau

They get a lot of say in bow design.

McCarthy has a ton.of input in the hoyts (although he is an engineer).

Cousins i was told practically designed the Prime target bow.

I know of smaller no names have put input, thoughts in designs......


----------



## ghostgoblin22

i say its going down, it just makes sense for him to do it, its a win/win for him to go to elite


----------



## Kstigall

If Levi signs with Elite does that make him an _Elitist_! 

Leviticus Eliticae Winimus Maximus!?


----------



## sagecreek

Kstigall said:


> If Levi signs with Elite does that make him an _Elitist_!
> 
> Leviticus Eliticae Winimus Maximus!?


Exactly! lain:


----------



## mrp

Kstigall said:


> If Levi signs with Elite does that make him an _Elitist_!
> 
> Leviticus Eliticae Winimus Maximus!?


that is classic!

Even though it's Latin......THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!


----------



## 3rdplace

Garceau said:


> They get a lot of say in bow design.
> 
> *McCarthy has a ton.of input in the hoyts* (although he is an engineer).
> 
> Cousins i was told practically designed the Prime target bow.
> 
> I know of smaller no names have put input, thoughts in designs......



Maybe not anymore.


----------



## Garceau

3rdplace said:


> Maybe not anymore.


True....i should have sad had.


----------



## rattlinman

Garceau said:


> They get a lot of say in bow design.
> 
> McCarthy has a ton.of input in the hoyts (although he is an engineer).
> 
> Cousins i was told practically designed the Prime target bow.
> 
> I know of smaller no names have put input, thoughts in designs......


So you think Levi was the one who came up with the goofy looking cage thingy on the Elite bows? 

I would probably have to let him go if I was ruining....er....running that company. "Uh, Mr. Morgan, is that you're idea? Ok, you're fired!" lol


----------



## Bonecutterx

kstigall said:


> if levi signs with elite does that make him an _elitist_!
> 
> Leviticus eliticae winimus maximus!?


lewm


----------



## Garceau

rattlinman said:


> So you think Levi was the one who came up with the goofy looking cage thingy on the Elite bows?
> 
> I would probably have to let him go if I was ruining....er....running that company. "Uh, Mr. Morgan, is that you're idea? Ok, you're fired!" lol


I doubt he is overly concerned with appearances......i mean he has been shooting the ugliest bows on the market.


----------



## rattlinman

Garceau said:


> I doubt he is overly concerned with appearances......i mean he has been shooting the ugliest bows on the market.


OH NO !!!!! :angry: YOU DIDN'T !!!!! LOL

(I kinda like my ugly bows,,,,thank you very much)


----------



## Garceau

Thats what in saying......doesnt matter what they look like. As long as hits the spot!


----------



## Kstigall

rattlinman said:


> OH NO !!!!! :angry: YOU DIDN'T !!!!! LOL
> 
> (I kinda like my ugly bows,,,,thank you very much)


Aha! You admit they are *U*-glee! Somebody grab his Mathews Man card!


----------



## rattlinman

Well dangit I guess I'm not the die-hard do-all fanboy that everyone think all of us Mathews shooters are! I hate to admit it, 


sorry, distracted by your avatar......what was I saying?


but there are some bows that are considered more attractive.....nothing that Garceau shoots...but yes, some are.


----------



## Supermag1

genohuh said:


> Probably the funniest post yet... not about $$$$? yea right!! maybe he just likes. NY.... I know Levi but i wouldnt even ask him what he is gonna do.. he will win no matter what he Shoots.. my Opinion is and it is just a opinion that if He goes to Elite i believe its more about his Hunting Show..I read a article where he said his Dream was a Hunting Show.. I mean what more could he Win? his SOY goal has been done. FYI a Bow Companies Tournament Bow sales usually is about 6% of total sales... sooo you do the Math!! any Company that gets Levi will probably put more into his award winning Hunting Show than his Tournament activities.. 94% vs 6% not very hard to figure out...


The thing is that his tournament archery success is what got his foot in the door for the hunting show and has helped give him a lot of the credibility with his audience that most other shows lack. For example, of all the people that shoot game at distance, his shots seem to get the least negative response because we all know just how dang good of a shot he is under pressure and that he does it all the time at 50 in the ASA and out to 100+ at Redding. Another example of a shooter who's tournament success has led to a career outside of the tournament trail is Randy Ulmer.


----------



## AdvanTimberLou

No dog in this fight and could care less what he shoots. He can take a broom and string and be successful. 

I hope whatever he decides he makes so much money he needs a wheelbarrow to take it to the bank. He's got a wife, a son, probably a mortgage, and bills like we all have. Mans just trying to survive and make a good living in what he loves to do and support those around him 

Good for him, looking out for his family like he should be!


----------



## skinner2

AdvanTimberLou said:


> No dog in this fight and could care less what he shoots. He can take a broom and string and be successful.
> 
> I hope whatever he decides he makes so much money he needs a wheelbarrow to take it to the bank. He's got a wife, a son, probably a mortgage, and bills like we all have. Mans just trying to survive and make a good living in what he loves to do and support those around him
> 
> Good for him, looking out for his family like he should be!


x 2


----------



## NCBuckNBass

I doubt I'll sleep a wink till November 1st


----------



## sightpin

NCBuckNBass said:


> I doubt I'll sleep a wink till November 1st



Ah yes, November 1st! Wait for it.


----------



## Outback Man

NCBuckNBass said:


> I doubt I'll sleep a wink till November 1st


Me either...but it won't be because of this...


----------



## shanehood

So who make elite bow's? And we're do you buy them, Walmart! And that's 10mins of my life ill never get back and yes I read slow .


----------



## DeepFried

Anxiously waiting for Nov 1st...


----------



## Viper69

Nothing to with for. He went elite. Done deal


----------



## ghostgoblin22

Viper69 said:


> Nothing to with for. He went elite. Done deal


is that a fact?


----------



## slicktrick

Like I've said all a long. I will put money on it. They he will be shooting elite.


----------



## sagecreek

As Si Robertson (Uncle Si) says, "That's a fact, Jack!"


----------



## Viper69

ghostgoblin22 said:


> is that a fact?


As far as I'm concerned yes!


----------



## sightpin

sightpin said:


> Ah yes, November 1st! Wait for it.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Rumor has it, he has signed with whisker biscuit too...


----------



## Outback Man

Alpha Burnt said:


> Rumor has it, he has signed with whisker biscuit too...


And Squincher...


----------



## Irish66

I heard he signed with Wheaties!


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Outback Man said:


> And Squincher...


Speaking of that and side note, I have just noticed lately that all of the outdoor shows are pushing some kind of energy drink. I know that 5 hr energy and such have caused health problems with extended use. Seems like they will push anything, good for you or not.


----------



## pozoutdoors

I know a guy who films with him and shot Levi's old Apex 8 this summer with me. A couple of weeks ago he had an elite hunter in the stand with him!! So yeah he has gone to elite!!!


----------



## JimmyP

The real question is can he win with it,


----------



## D.Short

JimmyP said:


> The real question is can he win with it,


I got a feeling he is done competing anyway,at least at a serious level like in the past.


----------



## Garceau

I dont think quite yet.

If he could expand his shows a bit.....i wouldnt be surprised


----------



## D.Short

I hope your right,I love shootin with him at the Pro-Ams.


----------



## Gerard18

Garceau said:


> I doubt he is overly concerned with appearances......i mean he has been shooting the ugliest bows on the market.


Really now?


----------



## ferretboy

We will soon see if he can win with it. My guess is yes because he can win with anything he shoots.


----------



## Mr.Wiggles

he could shot an alder branch better than half the guys that are pros,he is done with mathews but i don't have a clue who tghe go to company is


----------



## hoytshooter35

First off, let me say, that every top pro can win with any bow. they are machines and can have confidence in anything. I have friends that shoot for Mathews, and Levi tried to leave for PSE last year, but law suits were threatened because he was still in contract through the end of this year. Supposedly, he is leaving for Elite. But cant until contract is up at end of December. There isnt a bow company that cant or wont pay big bucks for him because they know the benefits of having him. With him, their sales will increase. Also, companies like Elite can afford to pay him because they are not paying a ton of big names. Not sure on Reo. Did hear Tim Gillingham was going back to Mathews. Hoyt has really fallen off on 3D archery and dont pay pros like they used too. They have become a field archery organization. Which is a shame because I love their bows. It would be nice if a company would be equally involved in both and take care of their shooters in both field and 3D but they don't.


----------



## Viper69

pozoutdoors said:


> I know a guy who films with him and shot Levi's old Apex 8 this summer with me. A couple of weeks ago he had an elite hunter in the stand with him!! So yeah he has gone to elite!!!


Yes he's been shooting an elite for a bit. The world will know on friday


----------



## Tanner B

Was told by a friend in Morgantown WV that Garrett Ayersman is also switching to Elite, along with Levi.


----------



## slicktrick

Tanner B you are the winner. You hit the nail on the head.


----------



## Tanner B

i spent a LOT of time at the Refuge, i sure miss those days.


----------



## JimmyP

Where will Dan macarthey end up could it be Mathews


----------



## D.Short

JimmyP said:


> Where will Dan macarthey end up could it be Mathews


That's what I'm thinking.


----------



## Garceau

JimmyP said:


> Where will Dan macarthey end up could it be Mathews


Im.not certain....anything is possible


----------



## sagecreek

IMO, Elites shoot better than Mathews anyways. I don't know why you guys think he won't be able to win with one. I think he will dominate with one.


----------



## Daniel Boone

Levi will continue to dominate with Elite bow in hands. Pete Crawford and Elite will make a good team for Elite.

Wish both continue success in 2014
DB


----------



## Jesse Schultz

Frank/PA said:


> Not sure if this is true and you know how the archery rumor mill is.....buuutttt..... I heard through the grapevine that Levi is headed to Elite???? is this true???


Who is Levi


----------



## ontarget7

I feel it will take some time to adjust to the grip and grip pressure of the Elite bows compared to the Mathews. This will effect his overall accuracy until that adjustment is made. It will also take some time to adjust to the limb stop feel shooting a hinge release. I am sure after those adjustments are made he will do just fine.


----------



## sagecreek

Why don't hinge shooters make new limb stops with rubber bumpers on them that will give a little? Like the Mathews HP cam.


----------



## SHPoet

sagecreek said:


> Why don't hinge shooters make new limb stops with rubber bumpers on them that will give a little? Like the Mathews HP cam.


The Elite and Prime bows DO have rubber on the stops. It does give a little. Lots of folks shoot hinges and pull through releases with these bows.


----------



## ontarget7

SHPoet said:


> The Elite and Prime bows DO have rubber on the stops. It does give a little. Lots of folks shoot hinges and pull through releases with these bows.


They do, but it is still a different feel that takes a little adjusting to get use to it


----------



## hjort jagare

Levi will be fine if and when he switches to Elite. Do you think a archer of his ranking would switch over with out knowing he could shoot better or at least as well with the new bow? Nov. 1 will not find Levi saying "What the heck this thing has limb stops?"


----------



## sagecreek

True. Manufacturers send shooters bows all the time to try, hoping they will like them better than the brand they are currently shooting. Trying to win them over.


----------



## orarcher

I would say ya they or someone "got" him. His NTG website he has a section to see what equipment he uses and a bow company is NOT listed.


----------



## Panthers71

orarcher said:


> I would say ya they or someone "got" him. His NTG website he has a section to see what equipment he uses and a bow company is NOT listed.


That there is a good point, has me a little curious


----------



## Pete53

ya,levi is a great shooter and he will shoot an elite better than he ever shot a mayhews.do you guys know elite limbs are made by dave barnsdale and his limbs are the best in the world.don`t forget dave barnsdale beat all the pro`s a few years ago with his barnsdale classic-x bow that he built in vegas. i have always said if levi morgan ever shot a good 2-cam bow like hoyt,pse,elite,prime or barnsdale he would be unstoppable .just look at what dave cousin is starting to do with his prime bow.those top pro shooter`s can shoot any well made bow great.all`s i can say is good luck levi morgan with any bow you use.


----------



## naturemade

Maybe Elite will release a NTG bow with a 6 inch brace height with ibo of 345. I could see it now, all black with green cerakote cams and Levi's green strings.


----------



## Archerybuff

Well I was hoping this thread would hit 30 pages before the official anouncement but I think we will need to go a different direction to get the those 3 or 4 more pages Nobody seems to believe that Elite may be taking a gamble by signing Levi(if he is indeed signing with Elite). There is always a risk when you sign someone that is already at the top because there is only one way to go from there. I mean think about it, if he continues to win everyone will say "he could win with anything he shoots". So you would have to really question whether or not he would influence sales by getting to the podium with an Elite. On the other hand if he drops off a bit people will say "it must be the bow". It could actually end up costing Elite sales?
Now the far more practical reason is Levi's hunting show has a pretty good following. Putting an Elite in a treestand with him would make more sense as far as influencing sales IMO. But honestly, what fun is arguing that.


----------



## DroptineArchery

Some Pro shooters got the new bows in hand 3 months ago and have already been out west killing Mule deer and Elk with 2014 bows.


----------



## Beastmaster

Archerybuff said:


> Well I was hoping this thread would hit 30 pages before the official anouncement but I think we will need to go a different direction to get the those 3 or 4 more pages Nobody seems to believe that Elite may be taking a gamble by signing Levi(if he is indeed signing with Elite). There is always a risk when you sign someone that is already at the top because there is only one way to go from there. I mean think about it, if he continues to win everyone will say "he could win with anything he shoots". So you would have to really question whether or not he would influence sales by getting to the podium with an Elite. On the other hand if he drops off a bit people will say "it must be the bow". It could actually end up costing Elite sales?
> Now the far more practical reason is Levi's hunting show has a pretty good following. Putting an Elite in a treestand with him would make more sense as far as influencing sales IMO. But honestly, what fun is arguing that.


There is always an adjustment time with any new bow. Even if the archer doesn't swap manufacturers.

I'll use Reo Wilde as an example. In the course of 2013, he swapped between his Pro Comp Elite and his Vantage Elite Plus.

So, I'd hazard a guess that Levi has been or will be hitting the range hard with whatever new equipment he's been assigned with.


----------



## Predator

Archerybuff said:


> Well I was hoping this thread would hit 30 pages before the official anouncement but I think we will need to go a different direction to get the those 3 or 4 more pages Nobody seems to believe that Elite may be taking a gamble by signing Levi(if he is indeed signing with Elite). There is always a risk when you sign someone that is already at the top because there is only one way to go from there. I mean think about it, if he continues to win everyone will say "he could win with anything he shoots". So you would have to really question whether or not he would influence sales by getting to the podium with an Elite. On the other hand if he drops off a bit people will say "it must be the bow". It could actually end up costing Elite sales?
> Now the far more practical reason is Levi's hunting show has a pretty good following. Putting an Elite in a treestand with him would make more sense as far as influencing sales IMO. But honestly, what fun is arguing that.


Every time you sign anyone it's a bit of a gamble. But companies have to take risks if they want to succeed. I doubt it will hurt bow sales, especially in the short term. If Elite wants to be "on the map" they need to sign some folks like this and I'd rather sign someone that is at the top of his game NOW and make a big splash than sign some no name up and comer and hope he makes it big (although they may do some of that too).

I'm a little disappointed he's going with Elite but that's just because I'm not at all a fan of the 2-track binary system and will never own an Elite as long as they keep using that cam. But then I'm not a fan of Mathews either but I am a fan of Levi's. He's a great kid - love how he represents the sport, love is belief system and conviction to be open about it, and love his shooting ability. The fact that I'm a big fan of Levi's didn't make me want to shoot a Mathews and it won't make me want to shoot an Elite. But it will for a lot of average Joe's who don't know any better and just buy a Hoyt because Waddell/Bone Collectors/Ralph C/Bill W do or a Mathews because Levi does or a PSE because the Drury crew does etc. etc.

Wherever he ends up, I wish him and Samantha the best.


----------



## Outback Man

If it makes you feel any better this thread is 39 pages long on Tapatalk.


----------



## J Whittington

Im sure Levi will tell us when he is ready to.


----------



## Beastmaster

Outback Man said:


> If it makes you feel any better this thread is 39 pages long on Tapatalk.


It's only 16 pages on my Tapatalk setup. But I have mine set up for 50 posts per page.


----------



## 4IDARCHER

I am almost going to fell sad in early Nov when the worst kept secret in archery is out and we let this thread die (unless somebody makes this into a zombie thread that just won't die)


----------



## N7709K

it'll be interesting to see how pressure shots in comp go when he's running limbstops...

@steve, talkin the guys i know, lots have been going between diff models of bows this past season... lots of hoyt guys between pro comps and vantages, braden went to apex7's from c4's, etc


----------



## lavazhole

Beastmaster said:


> It's only 16 pages on my Tapatalk setup. But I have mine set up for 50 posts per page.


do tell how this is done??????


----------



## BeastofEast

no a secret, hes with elite.


----------



## Beastmaster

N7709K said:


> it'll be interesting to see how pressure shots in comp go when he's running limbstops...
> 
> @steve, talkin the guys i know, lots have been going between diff models of bows this past season... lots of hoyt guys between pro comps and vantages, braden went to apex7's from c4's, etc


I know. I just used Reo as an example since his switching back and forth was pretty apparent during the 2013 outdoor season.

Heck, even my own child has gone back and forth between his Ultra Elite and Contender Elite. Once I get out of the hospital, his Pro Comp Elite's going to get built up/Frankensteined and that's going to get thrown into the mix.


----------



## Beastmaster

lavazhole said:


> do tell how this is done??????


For iOS, go to the top level, go to settings, then set it for 50 posts per page. Screen caps attached.

-Steve


----------



## N7709K

@steve, what are you thoughts on running limbstops in pressure situations with a hinge and a history of tp? I'm guessing this season will bring some very impressive raw scores at several venues and some very shocking shoot off results and scores


----------



## Beastmaster

And here's Screencaps for Android.


----------



## Beastmaster

N7709K said:


> @steve, what are you thoughts on running limbstops in pressure situations with a hinge and a history of tp? I'm guessing this season will bring some very impressive raw scores at several venues and some very shocking shoot off results and scores


From personal experience, there's a huge difference in feel between limb stops and not having a bow with them. I've personally never been successful running a hinge and limb stopped bows. But that's me.

I'm thinking along the same lines as you - we will see a huge ramp up change leading into some monster scores. A lot of that will depend on how much he's shooting in the offseason and what bow(s) he will be shooting. 

If it's a Tour, it will be interesting to see how he shoots a bow in size between the Apex 8 and the MR7.

I'm looking forward to observing Levi in person at Vegas 2014. This will be my first opportunity to see how the equipment change has affected his form. 

My personal curiosity as a coach and a tuner is to see how he will tune a two track.


----------



## Ky*Bowhunter

I would say he will be going with his exxus more with those limb stops instead of the longhorn.... I'm not much on the limbstops with a hinge myself.


----------



## Predator

Ky*Bowhunter said:


> I would say he will be going with his exxus more with those limb stops instead of the longhorn.... I'm not much on the limbstops with a hinge myself.


We'll see but I would be concerned about a big drop in his scores if he goes with the exxus. Levi is a hinge guy through and through. He even hunts with a hinge to combat TP/buck fever.


----------



## deafcon2

I would think he already knows if he can shoot an Elite well or not by now.


----------



## rpearce750

Predator said:


> We'll see but I would be concerned about a big drop in his scores if he goes with the exxus. Levi is a hinge guy through and through. He even hunts with a hinge to combat TP/buck fever.


He shot the Exxus all year shooting 3d other than the shoot downs. He helped design the Exxus so he's pretty comfortable with it.


----------



## Garceau

N7709K said:


> it'll be interesting to see how pressure shots in comp go when he's running limbstops...
> 
> @steve, talkin the guys i know, lots have been going between diff models of bows this past season... lots of hoyt guys between pro comps and vantages, braden went to apex7's from c4's, etc


He doesnt have to set it up that way. He can set that bow up with cable stops. I do believe a few Elites pros are set up that way.


----------



## JimmyP

Some one remind me again,which pros were in the shoot down at the classic


----------



## ontarget7

Garceau said:


> He doesnt have to set it up that way. He can set that bow up with cable stops. I do believe a few Elites pros are set up that way.


Interesting, I have not seen that yet. Would they have tapped those holes in the pic and added cable stops ?


----------



## Beastmaster

Garceau said:


> He doesnt have to set it up that way. He can set that bow up with cable stops. I do believe a few Elites pros are set up that way.


I'd love to know how that modification is done.


----------



## FoggDogg

Lots of speculation. I'm as interested to see what happens. What I'm most instersted in, is if he does make the switch to Elite...how long will it be before they introduce a true target bow. It only took G5 a year before to introduce one for Cuz'. :wink:


----------



## Ault

FoggDogg said:


> Lots of speculation. I'm as interested to see what happens. What I'm most instersted in, is if he does make the switch to Elite...how long will it be before they introduce a true target bow. It only took G5 a year before to introduce one for Cuz'. :wink:


my thoughts exactly


----------



## Mahly

Beastmaster said:


> I'd love to know how that modification is done.


They should already have cable stops... Just move the limb stops back a touch, and you have a more mushy back wall.


----------



## ontarget7

Mahly said:


> They should already have cable stops... Just move the limb stops back a touch, and you have a more mushy back wall.


Really ?


----------



## Garceau

ontarget7 said:


> Interesting, I have not seen that yet. Would they have tapped those holes in the pic and added cable stops ?


Hmmmm 

If ya did that you effectively lower the let off percentage and soften the wall some.

However i dont know for certain how they do it. I was just there when it was being explained to someone. But i dont know the elite models/cams


----------



## ontarget7

Garceau said:


> Hmmmm
> 
> If ya did that you effectively lower the let off percentage and soften the wall some.
> 
> However i dont know for certain how they do it. I was just there when it was being explained to someone. But i dont know the elite models/cams


I'm sure it might work but have never seen that done. Interesting !!!!!


----------



## sagecreek

Not that hard to do really. lain:

And like I said, you could go with a softer thicker rubber on the limb stops and get the same feel and pull.


----------



## ontarget7

sagecreek said:


> Not that hard to do really. lain:
> 
> And like I said, you could go with a softer thicker rubber on the limb stops and get the same feel and pull.


That still doesn't give you the feel of a cable stop IMO.


----------



## Outback Man

Beastmaster said:


> For iOS, go to the top level, go to settings, then set it for 50 posts per page. Screen caps attached.
> 
> -Steve


Awesome...thanks


----------



## N7709K

there are a couple ways you can tweak to get a better feel/softer wall, but unless elite offers cable stops as an option i'm guessing its written into his contract that its limbs stops


----------



## Archerybuff

So *IF* Elite signs Levi, and *IF* Levi wins with a Tour do you think Elite will use an aggressive advertizing campaign similiar to Mathews? Or do you think Elite will stick to it's roots and push the "shootability" aspect of thier bows? *IF* Elite is paying Levi are they doing it to expand into target archery or gain a larger percentage of the hunting sales?


----------



## sagecreek

It's a no loose for Elite. They will have the best 3D shooter to sell to the tournament crowd and a big presence with a great ambassador of the sport on his hunting show. lain:


----------



## ThunderEagle

Archerybuff said:


> *IF* Levi wins with a Tour


I didn't think they were still making the Tour, so wouldn't it be an Energy 35?


----------



## Archerybuff

ThunderEagle said:


> I didn't think they were still making the Tour, so wouldn't it be an Energy 35?


They dropped everything BUT the Tour


----------



## Archerybuff

sagecreek said:


> It's a no loose for Elite. They will have the best 3D shooter to sell to the tournament crowd and a big presence with a great ambassador of the sport on his hunting show. lain:


 Any time you pay a human being to produce results there is a risk. Injury/health, scandal, burn-out, not being able to produce the desired results with a companies product, not marketing the results effectively etc. etc. etc. etc. "No Lose situation" HARDLY!


----------



## Outback Man

ThunderEagle said:


> I didn't think they were still making the Tour, so wouldn't it be an Energy 35?


Your is being reworked and will be rereleased...it's being "Levized"


----------



## Beastmaster

ThunderEagle said:


> I didn't think they were still making the Tour, so wouldn't it be an Energy 35?


The Tour is still in for 2014.


----------



## Beastmaster

Archerybuff said:


> So *IF* Elite signs Levi, and *IF* Levi wins with a Tour do you think Elite will use an aggressive advertizing campaign similiar to Mathews? Or do you think Elite will stick to it's roots and push the "shootability" aspect of thier bows? *IF* Elite is paying Levi are they doing it to expand into target archery or gain a larger percentage of the hunting sales?


There is no guarantee that Levi will shoot a Tour. There is a possibility that he may shoot a prototype.

Many manufacturers will mock up bows that have identical geometries to the new lines but appear like production bows. It would make sense to me that Elite would create some longer risered prototypes. Prime did it with Dave Cousins. I know PSE has Frankensteined stuff for their pro and staff shooters for a while as well. I've seen it with Hoyt and their recurve line In person.

So, this is why I want to observe Levi in Vegas 2014. If Elite wants to put their best foot forward, we will see what their offerings look like from a technical standpoint.

With regards to the marketing side of the world - this is an unknown. Pete has been desperate to break into the world held by Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews. His quiet purchases of businesses over the past few years shows he's willing to buy his way up in the world, and the theoretical contract with Levi would help bring some name brand recognition to the fold. It's an instant legitimate proof in the pudding.

Will Levi win with Elite (or wherever he's going to)? Yes. He has to. And knowing high end archers and how they work, he's probably been using his new bows for a while now.

I will add one item to the oft used (and hated by me) phrase "it's the Indian, not the bow". The Indian has to get 10,000 shots in to get used to the feel and quirks of the new equipment. Unless Elite is introducing some new cam cable stop system, going to a limb stop system will take some shots to get used to.

The bow also has to perform to the Archer's needs as well. Levi would not have risked jumping ship if he didn't feel he could shoot the bows successfully, but he's working his rear end off in this off season to ensure he *can* shoot the bows in a winning condition.

Do I know any of this as fact? No. But I do know archers that are on this level would be doing exactly what I've been talking about if they were to go from one manufacturer to another.


----------



## BrentW

People and I saw elite bow in tree stand on Facebook today. Looks like its true


----------



## sagecreek

I'm sure Levi has already concluded he can win with an Elite before switching companies.


----------



## Bobmuley

sagecreek said:


> I'm sure Levi has already concluded he can win with an Elite before switching companies.


I'm pretty sure I could come up with the same conclusion!


----------



## Archerybuff

Bobmuley said:


> I'm pretty sure I could come up with the same conclusion!


Well that would be pretty difficult to come to that "conclusion" without consulting the other competitors involved. You might be able to "conclude" that you shoot the bow well, you might be able to "conclude" that you shoot the bow better than your previous bow an you might even be able to "conclude" that shooting the bow makes you warm and fuzzy all over but until you WIN against the other pros you can "conclude" nothing about winning:wink:


----------



## Predator

sagecreek said:


> I'm sure Levi has already concluded he can win with an Elite before switching companies.


I'm sure Levi believes that. Any top competitor like Levi would think he could win with a properly designed bow from any of the decently represented brands - he would have to have this level of confidence to have been able to win so consistently.

Now, the fact that he believes it doesn't necessarily mean it's true and I would imagine, as referenced above, it will take some time to get used to the equipment. 

I'll also be interested to see if his involvement drives any changes in the whole "shootability" marketing and, ultimately, in the cam system they are using. To my knowledge a two track binary cam system has never had any notable success on the big stage. If it was so "shootable" you'd expect it to be winning IBO, ASA, NFAA, Vegas etc. etc.. It will be interesting to see if it's just because it hasn't been in the right hands previously or if Levi pushes them in a different direction.


----------



## Beastmaster

Predator said:


> I'll also be interested to see if his involvement drives any changes in the whole "shootability" marketing and, ultimately, in the cam system they are using. To my knowledge a two track binary cam system has never had any notable success on the big stage. If it was so "shootable" you'd expect it to be winning IBO, ASA, NFAA, Vegas etc. etc.. It will be interesting to see if it's just because it hasn't been in the right hands previously or if Levi pushes them in a different direction.


You're hitting on something that I've been reluctant to hit upon due to fanboy reaction.

The 2003 Martin Scepter 3 (I believe) is a two track twin cam bow when equipped with the Fury cam and a three track shoot through cable bow when in the FuryX config.

George Ryals and the whole Wilde clan shot Scepter 3's to National Championships and Vegas wins.

The big difference is the Fury cams use yoke based cables. It's very similar to what Bowtech uses in their Overdrive setup. And, I don't believe the Fury cam ever used a limb stop setup...they were cable stop setups. If I wasn't in the hospital, I'd stop by the shop I used to work for and pull down a Fury cam set.

So there's been history with two track bows winning big...in the past. But if my recollection is correct, it's never been winning with a limb stop system...it's been with a cable stop system.


----------



## Archerybuff

Predator said:


> I'll also be interested to see if his involvement drives any changes in the whole "shootability" marketing and, ultimately, in the cam system they are using. To my knowledge a two track binary cam system has never had any notable success on the big stage. If it was so "shootable" you'd expect it to be winning IBO, ASA, NFAA, Vegas etc. etc.. It will be interesting to see if it's just because it hasn't been in the right hands previously or if Levi pushes them in a different direction.


I am very curious as well. It will be fun to watch how this unfolds in 2014. One things for sure if there is an archer around that can have this kind of impact, Levi would have to be the front runner.


----------



## ontarget7

The guys that I know that have gone to the Elite Tour have all gone back to a hybrid cam. I will be curious to see how this all plays out. Some how I think he will be more focused on the hunting shows if he stays with Elite long term.


----------



## Archerybuff

Beastmaster said:


> You're hitting on something that I've been reluctant to hit upon due to fanboy reaction.
> 
> The 2003 Martin Scepter 3 (I believe) is a two track twin cam bow when equipped with the Fury cam and a three track shoot through cable bow when in the FuryX config.
> 
> George Ryals and the whole Wilde clan shot Scepter 3's to National Championships and Vegas wins.
> 
> The big difference is the Fury cams use yoke based cables. It's very similar to what Bowtech uses in their Overdrive setup. And, I don't believe the Fury cam ever used a limb stop setup...they were cable stop setups. If I wasn't in the hospital, I'd stop by the shop I used to work for and pull down a Fury cam set.
> 
> So there's been history with two track bows winning big...in the past. But if my recollection is correct, it's never been winning with a limb stop system...it's been with a cable stop system.


Ya know everyone enjoys reading a good "patent infringement" thread. I would think that IF Elite does sign Levi, and IF he cashes the same number of checks that we're used to seeing, we could see a marketing blitz for the 2 track binary. The "winningest cam in archery". You thought there were a lot of lawsuits surrounding the 2 track patent before, can you imagine?


----------



## sagecreek

ontarget7 said:


> The guys that I know that have gone to the Elite Tour have all gone back to a hybrid cam. ...


I've noticed just the opposite around here.


----------



## Beastmaster

Archerybuff said:


> Ya know everyone enjoys reading a good "patent infringement" thread. I would think that IF Elite does sign Levi, and IF he cashes the same number of checks that we're used to seeing, we could see a marketing blitz for the 2 track binary. The "winningest cam in archery". You thought there were a lot of lawsuits surrounding the 2 track patent before, can you imagine?


That's hard for a two track binary to claim that. Even with past wins back in the early 2000's, hybrid cams and solo cams have won way more.

And Rex Darlington won't necessarily be seeing an increase in his bank account. Those who use the two track binary will likely still pay the same amount in royalties. 

Again, I await Vegas 2014. That's the first major proof to watch for. I'll be watching and observing with interest.


----------



## CMA121885

A 2 track will shoot fine. I don't care what the haters say. Iv shot 2 tracks for years. Last year I competed with a tour in ASA, that 2 track sure put money in my pocket in k45. As everyone knows that's a "dot shooting" class. I feel very confident in saying the 2 track is JUST as accurate as anything else.


----------



## tinbeater

sagecreek said:


> I've noticed just the opposite around here.


x2.


----------



## N7709K

the number of zeros on the contract will pull lots of pros as well, add that to a built up ego of being one of the best at your selected game and its entirely possible that the new gear does in fact produce lower scores but the monetary incentives are much higher. not all pro's see an increase in scores between old and new, not all see a decrease, but you will notice a change in their scores. its a little interesting to hear the names that have changed brands in the off season and where they have been; but that are similarities between who went where.

@steve, with the WC finals moved to the EAF later on it will be interesting to see how strong showing the international competitors are...


----------



## rattlinman

Beastmaster said:


> There is no guarantee that Levi will shoot a Tour. There is a possibility that he may shoot a prototype.
> 
> Many manufacturers will mock up bows that have identical geometries to the new lines but appear like production bows. It would make sense to me that Elite would create some longer risered prototypes. Prime did it with Dave Cousins. I know PSE has Frankensteined stuff for their pro and staff shooters for a while as well. I've seen it with Hoyt and their recurve line In person.
> 
> So, this is why I want to observe Levi in Vegas 2014. If Elite wants to put their best foot forward, we will see what their offerings look like from a technical standpoint.
> 
> With regards to the marketing side of the world - this is an unknown. Pete has been desperate to break into the world held by Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews. His quiet purchases of businesses over the past few years shows he's willing to buy his way up in the world, and the theoretical contract with Levi would help bring some name brand recognition to the fold. It's an instant legitimate proof in the pudding.
> 
> Will Levi win with Elite (or wherever he's going to)? Yes. He has to. And knowing high end archers and how they work, he's probably been using his new bows for a while now.
> 
> I will add one item to the oft used (and hated by me) phrase "it's the Indian, not the bow". The Indian has to get 10,000 shots in to get used to the feel and quirks of the new equipment. Unless Elite is introducing some new cam cable stop system, going to a limb stop system will take some shots to get used to.
> 
> The bow also has to perform to the Archer's needs as well. Levi would not have risked jumping ship if he didn't feel he could shoot the bows successfully, but he's working his rear end off in this off season to ensure he *can* shoot the bows in a winning condition.
> 
> Do I know any of this as fact? No. But I do know archers that are on this level would be doing exactly what I've been talking about if they were to go from one manufacturer to another.


Very good points made here, and I am one of them that is patiently waiting to see if in fact it is the indian or the bow. I know from personal experience that I was never able to shoot the 2 track binary as well as other cam systems. If anyone can prove or disprove the theory of dual stops and inconsistency, Levi should.

UNLESS he is caught shooting some prototype, then the shiz will hit the fan as to why he would shoot one of their production bows.......

I am a recently converted Mathews shooter, but I also have been impressed with the shooting ability of Levi, so I really am looking forward to the outcome of 2014 with Levi and Elite.

My question is - hey Levi, when you showed me the video of the 75 yard shot on that muledeer in WY this year...was that with an Elite or a Mathews. I didn't realize until after the rumors started that I never seen the bow in the video! ???????


----------



## Beastmaster

N7709K said:


> @steve, with the WC finals moved to the EAF later on it will be interesting to see how strong showing the international competitors are...


Agreed.


----------



## Archerybuff

Beastmaster said:


> That's hard for a two track binary to claim that. Even with past wins back in the early 2000's, hybrid cams and solo cams have won way more.
> 
> And Rex Darlington won't necessarily be seeing an increase in his bank account. Those who use the two track binary will likely still pay the same amount in royalties.
> 
> Again, I await Vegas 2014. That's the first major proof to watch for. I'll be watching and observing with interest.


I wasn't very clear in my post. When I said "the winningest cam in archery" I meant if Levi cleans house with it in 2014. I was just imagining how many of the companies, especially the smaller bow manufacturers that use a 2 track, would be touting the superiority of the 2 track to generate sales. And when sales pick up and the money starts to flow.........well you know.


----------



## Predator

Beastmaster said:


> You're hitting on something that I've been reluctant to hit upon due to fanboy reaction.
> 
> The 2003 Martin Scepter 3 (I believe) is a two track twin cam bow when equipped with the Fury cam and a three track shoot through cable bow when in the FuryX config.
> 
> George Ryals and the whole Wilde clan shot Scepter 3's to National Championships and Vegas wins.
> 
> The big difference is the Fury cams use yoke based cables. It's very similar to what Bowtech uses in their Overdrive setup. And, I don't believe the Fury cam ever used a limb stop setup...they were cable stop setups. If I wasn't in the hospital, I'd stop by the shop I used to work for and pull down a Fury cam set.
> 
> So there's been history with two track bows winning big...in the past. But if my recollection is correct, it's never been winning with a limb stop system...it's been with a cable stop system.


I'm not worried about fanboys - used to their attacks.

Good point but I define 2-track binary as being in the form used by Elite. There is a big difference in a yoke system vs. one without.


----------



## Predator

N7709K said:


> the number of zeros on the contract will pull lots of pros as well, add that to a built up ego of being one of the best at your selected game and its entirely possible that the new gear does in fact produce lower scores but the monetary incentives are much higher. not all pro's see an increase in scores between old and new, not all see a decrease, but you will notice a change in their scores. its a little interesting to hear the names that have changed brands in the off season and where they have been; but that are similarities between who went where.
> 
> @steve, with the WC finals moved to the EAF later on it will be interesting to see how strong showing the international competitors are...


Case in point - Rory Mcilroy (if you happen to follow golf). He was playing awesome and being compared to Tiger, then he signed with Nike and had to switch out his entire bag. He has essentially sucked ever since but he's a LOT richer from the endorsement deal. Of course, if he doesn't perform over time he won't be renewing a deal of anywhere that magnitude but then he's sort of already cashed in.

Hard to imagine Elite paying that much more than Mathews but then they may be willing to put allof their chips in one or two baskets. 

It's also possible that Levi jus re-defines himself as a hunting show star and moves away from competitive shooting. Hard to fathom but possible.


----------



## Bonecutterx

Mathews treats their shooters like crap. Why do you think so many are leaving.
My guess is all elite had to do was match




Predator said:


> Case in point - Rory Mcilroy (if you happen to follow golf). He was playing awesome and being compared to Tiger, then he signed with Nike and had to switch out his entire bag. He has essentially sucked ever since but he's a LOT richer from the endorsement deal. Of course, if he doesn't perform over time he won't be renewing a deal of anywhere that magnitude but then he's sort of already cashed in.
> 
> Hard to imagine Elite paying that much more than Mathews but then they may be willing to put allof their chips in one or two baskets.
> 
> It's also possible that Levi jus re-defines himself as a hunting show star and moves away from competitive shooting. Hard to fathom but possible.


----------



## OctoberAssassin

Bonecutterx said:


> Mathews treats their shooters like crap. Why do you think so many are leaving.
> My guess is all elite had to do was match


I love how people who have no idea what they are talking about pretend like the do!


----------



## Core Archery

I think it's more of a hindering of the shooters with mathews by not coming out with new target bows.that has some leaving


----------



## CMA121885

OctoberAssassin said:


> I love how people who have no idea what they are talking about pretend like the do!


Well I can tell you for sure, Derek Phillips is a tool. A respectable shooter in my area attempted to talk to Derek about the triumph when it first came out. The guy was having issues with the bow and when he asked Derek what the problem could be Derek smarted off it was "operator error" and walked off. That's freaking sorry if you ask me. Then several months later NONE of the pros would shoot that bow.

Hopkins almost gout cut from the staff because he told Mathews it was a pos. Gillingham did get cut because he told Mathews it wouldn't shoot. So yea....


----------



## CMA121885

Oh, and last year Derek Phillips walked the K45 range to watch one of the Mathews engineers shoot (which was in my group) he asked what kind of bow I was shooting.....I laughed and said a Elite tour and he looked at me and said " never heard of Elite.....REALLY????


----------



## archery3d247

If you look at pic of Levi and this years kill there is no bow in none of them. What bow company ? but he is gone from mathews for sure.


----------



## Garceau

Bonecutterx said:


> Mathews treats their shooters like crap. Why do you think so many are leaving.
> My guess is all elite had to do was match


How so?

Please elaborate .


----------



## Bonecutterx

OctoberAssassin said:


> I love how people who have no idea what they are talking about pretend like the do!


Lmao. Truth hurt?


----------



## Bonecutterx

Garceau said:


> How so?
> 
> Please elaborate .


Go talk to some of the past Mathews shooters "off the record"


----------



## Garceau

Bonecutterx said:


> Go talk to some of the past Mathews shooters "off the record"


Why can't you share........ I travel, share rooms, rentals with many current Mathews factory staff, and past staff......to many it's a business decision. I don't ever recall one bad mouthing Mathews for the way they are treated. Some got hunts, some got other great endorsements etc.....

I was there when Mathews came on the scene in the mid to late 90s offering unheard of contingencies and watched pros swap over right at the shoots to them because of the crazy amount comparatively .

Of course not everyone will always be happy or have a perfect relationship. But to say they are treated like crap may be a stretch.


----------



## Bonecutterx

You dont share "off the record" info.





Garceau said:


> Why can't you share........ I travel, share rooms, rentals with many current Mathews factory staff, and past staff......to many it's a business decision. I don't ever recall one bad mouthing Mathews for the way they are treated. Some got hunts, some got other great endorsements etc.....
> 
> I was there when Mathews came on the scene in the mid to late 90s offering unheard of contingencies and watched pros swap over right at the shoots to them because of the crazy amount comparatively .
> 
> Of course not everyone will always be happy or have a perfect relationship. But to say they are treated like crap may be a stretch.


----------



## force1

Got to hand it to you levi, never seen any archer talked about so much everytime you do something , your like the Jeff Gordan of archery. lol


----------



## Outback Man

28 pages and fast approaching 29...


----------



## trumankayak

Cant believe you Nancy's haven't broke the 30 page mark yet.
Shameful......


----------



## thencprince1515

Well I'll have to admit I was wrong, I heard straight from a Mathews rep who knows Levi personally that he is indeed gone to Elite. I'm sure this isn't ground breaking news to some who already knew this, but I just can't believe it. I think it's a horrible marketing decision on his part, I'll be very curious to see if he still wins with the consistency he did with Mathews. He had to have give up a ton in royalties to switch to Elite. It will be very interesting to his his numbers this year. A lot of guys believe it doesn't matter what bow he shoots, I guess we will see if it's true or not.


----------



## CMA121885

I dont think mathews as a whole, is a bad company. But i do believe there is a arrogance about alot of their shooters, NOT all shooters but some (especially amateur) have a arrogance about them. 

Levi may have left for less money. After the whole lawsuit deal that mathews threatened with a few years ago anyone in their right mind would want to be away from that. Ultimately the choice is his. If he bombs out at florida, people will say its because of the bow. If he wins by a mile people will say "its not the bow its the indian". So eithe way people are gonna talk trash.

Personally I shoot elite, and have shot them for the past few years. I like many many different brands of bows, mathews is just not one of those brands. So like I said, if he bombs out, people will blame the bow, if he wins big they will say its the man behind the bow. No ones gonna admit the bow will shoot because they will have to swallow their own words and most folks dont have the guts to admit when they are wrong.


----------



## hoytshooter35

You can't always go by what the "big contingency checks" say. I'm willing to bet Mccarthy made more than what was written on his "big check". I honestly believe Levi will shoot his Elite as well as his Mathews. He is the number one 3-D shooter in the world and a few years away from owning every single 3-D record there is. I think it is brilliant on Elite's part. I think Levi wins either way. He can win with any bow. Elite is taking a huge risk that I think will pay off. Not many new companies can afford to take such a big jump. I give them props. They are signing a christian, well-respected, top shooter, who will help them better their bows. He'll have his input, and they grow as a target bow company. Plus, they'll grow as a hunting bow company. His show is growing like crazy. If his scores lower at all, I personally think it will be because of time he will lose as his child grows up. Family first!!! I think he knows that and will soon cut back on competition to raise his child and be there for his family. Think about how much time he loses with them competing full time and filming NTG during hunting season. Competition wise, what more is there for him to do? In my opinion, he is the best 3D guy there has ever been and could potentially own every record and then what? I see a few more years of competing and then a break for a while. They both win in my book.


----------



## N7709K

um.... might wanna check... but last I saw the World 3d championship was taken by Cousins and not levi....

his 3d scores won't really change; there aren't the factors present to change them. the venues where they are present are the ones that we are watching(steve and I atleast). outside of comp nothing will change; bows don't make a lick of difference killin animals, they all work the same.


----------



## NCBuckNBass

Not that I care one way or the other but I do find it a bold move on Elite's part. Imagine if you are Pete and you max out the credit card to sign Levi and then Levi can't win with your bow. I would have some sleepless nights if it were my bow company.

Even if Levi keeps winning folks are going to say it's the Indian and not the bow so what does Elite gain? It's not like Elite signed the guy that was ranked 50th in the world and all of a sudden he shot to #1 overnight using their bow.

The other thing about this is Levi has nothing to gain by continuing to shoot and everything to lose. All those famous TV bass fisherman got famous winning the money then went for the TV show and the endorsements. They were not foolish enough to keep fishing and potentially getting beat by the next rising star.

What would be funny is if Kevin Strother started shooting and winning in the same events as Levi.


----------



## JimmyP

hoytshooter35 said:


> You can't always go by what the "big contingency checks" say. I'm willing to bet Mccarthy made more than what was written on his "big check". I honestly believe Levi will shoot his Elite as well as his Mathews. He is the number one 3-D shooter in the world and a few years away from owning every single 3-D record there is. I think it is brilliant on Elite's part. I think Levi wins either way. He can win with any bow. Elite is taking a huge risk that I think will pay off. Not many new companies can afford to take such a big jump. I give them props. They are signing a christian, well-respected, top shooter, who will help them better their bows. He'll have his input, and they grow as a target bow company. Plus, they'll grow as a hunting bow company. His show is growing like crazy. If his scores lower at all, I personally think it will be because of time he will lose as his child grows up. Family first!!! I think he knows that and will soon cut back on competition to raise his child and be there for his family. Think about how much time he loses with them competing full time and filming NTG during hunting season. Competition wise, what more is there for him to do? In my opinion, he is the best 3D guy there has ever been and could potentially own every record and then what? I see a few more years of competing and then a break for a while. They both win in my book.


I bet Dan did not get hidden money thats why he will be on Mathews team


----------



## hoytshooter35

Tim Gillingham was Mathews shooter and switched to Hoyt. He is shooting the same as he was. People are too big into brand and consider Elite a "no name" brand. 
N7709K......Check their records in 3-D. Levi is more decorated than Cousins. Cousins is more field oriented and Levi is 3D. I have done my research. Dave has won 4 ASA Pro/ams (all in a known distance class) to Levi's 17 (open pro). Not mention all of Levi's Shoot of the Year awards. Cousins is a more complete shooter winning in every major group possible. But is not as good as Levi in 3-d


----------



## hoytshooter35

I bet Mathews offered Dan more money to represent them but he made more than advertised by Hoyt.


----------



## N7709K

state side, his record is better... but check WORLD stats; thats what i was getting at. best state side, yes; on of the worlds best, not even close.


----------



## CMA121885

Levi is a great shot, as well as McCarthy and Gillingham. I think elite made a smart move, especially if they establish a pro staff like mathews has. Mathews has made their name by blowing the industry up with the number of staff shooters. If elite does the same they will grow with leaps and bounds regardless of what the 2 track haters say. 

Like I said in a earlier post, if Levi wins people will say its the Indian...if he looses they will say its the bow. Either way people will bash and still say elite is sub-par.


----------



## Hoytalpha35

Gotta remember Levi isn't getting an off the shelf bow. He's getting what he needs to win it'll be an adjustment, but he'll get it right.


----------



## Beastmaster

Hoytalpha35 said:


> Gotta remember Levi isn't getting an off the shelf bow. He's getting what he needs to win it'll be an adjustment, but he'll get it right.


In a lot of pros cases, they get an off the shelf bow. They tune and tweak it to where it's no longer an off the shelf bow.

I do suspect that the bows Levi gets are prototypes disguised as production bows. Again, Vegas 2014 is the proof...providing Levi shoots there.


----------



## Archerybuff

Well I wish they would hurry up and make the anouncement, I have a couple Elites I need to sell. I figure as soon as the word hits the streets the value of my bows will increase substantially:wink:


----------



## JimmyP

The archery shop in my town can't give them away


----------



## Absolute Archer

CMA121885 said:


> Well I can tell you for sure, Derek Phillips is a tool. A respectable shooter in my area attempted to talk to Derek about the triumph when it first came out. The guy was having issues with the bow and when he asked Derek what the problem could be Derek smarted off it was "operator error" and walked off. That's freaking sorry if you ask me. Then several months later NONE of the pros would shoot that bow.
> 
> Hopkins almost gout cut from the staff because he told Mathews it was a pos. Gillingham did get cut because he told Mathews it wouldn't shoot. So yea....


Jeff never said anything Mathews has made is, was a POS. He is one of my best friends and I have never heard him say anything Mathews was a POS. He was never almost cut from Mathews. And he just signed a new 3 year contract with them.


----------



## thare1774

JimmyP said:


> The archery shop in my town can't give them away


We also found them impossible to sell unfortunately. We had to sell em at cost to move em out. Im talkin we still had 2010 bows a few months ago.


----------



## Archerybuff

thare1774 said:


> We also found them impossible to sell unfortunately. We had to sell em at cost to move em out. Im talkin we still had 2010 bows a few months ago.


Thats because you didn't have posters on the wall of Levi shooting them:wink:


----------



## Bonecutterx

thare1774 said:


> We also found them impossible to sell unfortunately. We had to sell em at cost to move em out. Im talkin we still had 2010 bows a few months ago.


That 98% dealers fault. You are too busy meeting your "goals" with Mathews.
Ive seen Elites sell very well in shops that did not have the big 3.

You can point the finger right back at yourself


----------



## shootstraight

Predator said:


> I'm sure Levi believes that. Any top competitor like Levi would think he could win with a properly designed bow from any of the decently represented brands - he would have to have this level of confidence to have been able to win so consistently.
> 
> To my knowledge a two track binary cam system has never had any notable success on the big stage. If it was so "shootable" you'd expect it to be winning IBO, ASA, NFAA, Vegas etc. etc..


What do you consider notable? If you mean by a top five pro then no but binaries certainly have had world class wins.


----------



## reylamb

N7709K said:


> state side, his record is better... but check WORLD stats; thats what i was getting at. best state side, yes; on of the worlds best, not even close.


Levi Morgan is the best unknown foam puncher in the world. Period.......end of discussion.

I don't care one bit what the world stats say, they are immaterial. Dave is just above average in unknown 3D. Just because he went to some goofy world competition......and who exactly was there at this world competition? The best in the world? Chance? Jesse? Braden? Reo? Logan? Nope, nope, nope, nope......there was only 1 US shooter there, Dave, hardly what I would call the best in the world at that competition.

Dave won, great, good for him. The competition was less than world class. That is not taking anything away from Cuz, he is among the elite at almost every venue, but to put his over Levi at unknown 3D is foolish.

When it comes to unknown 3D Levi is the best..........I will not go as far as to say best ever, but definitely the best in the WORLD right now....maybe in a couple years best ever, but I would definitely put him in the top 3 all time......and Cuz is nowhere on that list.


----------



## Beastmaster

shootstraight said:


> What do you consider notable? If you mean by a top five pro then no but binaries certainly have had world class wins.


I actually pinged some people who shot two track cammed bows in the past.

Now, these two track cammed bows were cable stop based, not limb stop based. So, one could make the argument that the cable stop based bows are a different cam system. So, there is a technical difference between a dual mirrored cam, non slaved, yoke cabled, cable stopped equipped bow, versus the binary, slaved cam, limb stopped bow.

But, with that being said, I know that from 1986 to 2003 or so, Martin had the market cornered in the target world using a non slaved, dual mirrored, cable stopped cammed bow (Scepter series to the Scepter 3). You had the Wilde clan, George Ryals, Rodger Willett, Jimmy Butts, Duane Price, and others totally tearing it up using that cam system.

With that being said, the only known FITA 1400+ shooters to use a slaved binary cam bow successfully (and neither person shoots that system now) was Albina Loginova of Russia and Shaun Teasedale of New Zealand. Albina's score was 1401 score out of 1440, using a pre-overdrive Bowtech, and Shaun's Bowtech was a Brigadier with a 1405 out of 1440. Everyone else on that list used a Martin Scepter (3 or prior), Hoyt, PSE, or Mathews.


----------



## Brad HT

reylamb said:


> Levi Morgan is the best unknown foam puncher in the world. Period.......end of discussion.
> 
> I don't care one bit what the world stats say, they are immaterial. Dave is just above average in unknown 3D. Just because he went to some goofy world competition......and who exactly was there at this world competition? The best in the world? Chance? Jesse? Braden? Reo? Logan? Nope, nope, nope, nope......there was only 1 US shooter there, Dave, hardly what I would call the best in the world at that competition.
> 
> Dave won, great, good for him. The competition was less than world class. That is not taking anything away from Cuz, he is among the elite at almost every venue, but to put his over Levi at unknown 3D is foolish.
> 
> When it comes to unknown 3D Levi is the best..........I will not go as far as to say best ever, but definitely the best in the WORLD right now....maybe in a couple years best ever, but I would definitely put him in the top 3 all time......and Cuz is nowhere on that list.


Just like how Levi is one of the best in the world at 3D, Dave is one of the best in the world at Field (and I _am _considering Jessie)... different game, mentality, skillset...etc... 
Different strokes for different folks. Its the whole 'whos the best' conversation thats been beaten to death over and over again... 

B~


----------



## Beastmaster

reylamb said:


> Levi Morgan is the best unknown foam puncher in the world. Period.......end of discussion.
> 
> I don't care one bit what the world stats say, they are immaterial. Dave is just above average in unknown 3D. Just because he went to some goofy world competition......and who exactly was there at this world competition? The best in the world? Chance? Jesse? Braden? Reo? Logan? Nope, nope, nope, nope......there was only 1 US shooter there, Dave, hardly what I would call the best in the world at that competition.
> 
> Dave won, great, good for him. The competition was less than world class. That is not taking anything away from Cuz, he is among the elite at almost every venue, but to put his over Levi at unknown 3D is foolish.
> 
> When it comes to unknown 3D Levi is the best..........I will not go as far as to say best ever, but definitely the best in the WORLD right now....maybe in a couple years best ever, but I would definitely put him in the top 3 all time......and Cuz is nowhere on that list.


Ah, so this brings up another interesting question.

In the few ASA or IBO shoots that I've seen, most of the targets tend to be shielded in some way, shape, or form - including the option to use an umbrella as a shield for the shooter.

In the World Archery side of the world, a shooter is exposed to the elements.

You have a totally uneven comparison basis. How can anyone truly do a comparison between the two styles? 

And - Levi isn't known for shooting a lot of indoor other than NFAA Indoor and Vegas. Dave shoots pretty much everything FITA based out there. Again...different comparisons without a true level to match up against.


----------



## Absolute Archer

reylamb said:


> Levi Morgan is the best unknown foam puncher in the world. Period.......end of discussion.
> 
> I don't care one bit what the world stats say, they are immaterial. Dave is just above average in unknown 3D. Just because he went to some goofy world competition......and who exactly was there at this world competition? The best in the world? Chance? Jesse? Braden? Reo? Logan? Nope, nope, nope, nope......there was only 1 US shooter there, Dave, hardly what I would call the best in the world at that competition.
> 
> Dave won, great, good for him. The competition was less than world class. That is not taking anything away from Cuz, he is among the elite at almost every venue, but to put his over Levi at unknown 3D is foolish.
> 
> When it comes to unknown 3D Levi is the best..........I will not go as far as to say best ever, but definitely the best in the WORLD right now....maybe in a couple years best ever, but I would definitely put him in the top 3 all time......and Cuz is nowhere on that list.


I know Levi is a little younger but Jeff Hopkins holds ALL records in the 3-D world. I don't think anyone will ever win as many shooter of the year tittles as he has. And yes Levi is the only one that could top him but we need to wait and see how he does with Ellite.


----------



## Absolute Archer

Beastmaster said:


> Ah, so this brings up another interesting question.
> 
> In the few ASA or IBO shoots that I've seen, most of the targets tend to be shielded in some way, shape, or form - including the option to use an umbrella as a shield for the shooter.
> 
> In the World Archery side of the world, a shooter is exposed to the elements.
> 
> 
> You have a totally uneven comparison basis. How can anyone truly do a comparison between the two styles?
> 
> And - Levi isn't known for shooting a lot of indoor other than NFAA Indoor and Vegas. Dave shoots pretty much everything FITA based out there. Again...different comparisons without a true level to match up against.


This is because in 3-D not all shooters are facing the sun at the same time of day as they are in those other venue's you mentioned. This is why umbrella's are allowed. To make it as fare and even as possible.


----------



## sagecreek

Word. lain:


----------



## aread

It seems that the bow can be a factor in even the top shooters scores. Example: Dave hasn't been quite as dominant since he quit shooting the Ultra Elite. I think that this was about a year before he left Hoyt. He's still a much better shooter than anyone reading this, especially me, but he's not quite as good as Dave of 3 to 4 years ago.

There may be some other factors at play here, but giving up the Ultra Elite has had an impact.

JMHO,
Allen


----------



## Crow Terminator

That may be a good point that I hadn't really thought about....the TV Hunting Pro vs national level competition Pro. There are a lot of people locally that shoot bows...but probably only about 100 or so that shoot 3D, and most of them are just on local shoot levels. I work with several people like this...who bow hunt and like to do it, but outside of that, they don't shoot their bows much at all. They watch it on TV when it comes on and such...and all of them know who Lee & Tiffany are, who Spook is, Waddell, Jordan, Primos guys, etc. But when it comes to competition archery....I can't tell you the number of people I've encountered that are clueless to there even being national level tournaments out there...of any venue. They don't know who any of the tournament Pro's are...except for the ones who now have shows on TV. If it's anything like the reality TV stars like Duck Dynasty, etc...then they are making a pretty good chunk based on just appearing as a guest somewhere...and I'm talking in the THOUSANDS per appearance, plus having all their travel and lodging took care of. 

Another forum I visit, had a member that wanted to get someone from the Swamp People show to come do an appearance at something he was putting on...and they contacted him back. It ended up being like $1,400 an hour...4 hour minimum...plus they had to pay for their plane ticket, first class only, and book and pay for their stay at a 3 star minimum hotel. And that's cheap compared to what it costs to get the Duck Dynasty folks to come make an appearance. I'm not sure what the tournament guys are getting for travel to and from tournaments...but their winnings are based on their overall performance in the tournament...vs the TV people that just have to show up. There may indeed be a lot more money in that area of it, vs the competition archery side of things. 

I will say this too....someone hit the nail square on the head when they said that if Levi doesn't do well with Elite or whomever he goes to...they are gonna say "it's the bow" and if he does well...they will just say "he could win with a broomstick and string".


----------



## zick

Levi may indeed make the switch to Elite. He is still all over the Mathews.com site with pictures of him shooting and tips and Pro Staff and all. Looks to me like Mathews would know if he was leaving and would have pulled all the Levi stuff like they supposedly did with the Christianberry stuff. Makes me wonder, HUH.


----------



## Beastmaster

aread said:


> It seems that the bow can be a factor in even the top shooters scores. Example: Dave hasn't been quite as dominant since he quit shooting the Ultra Elite. I think that this was about a year before he left Hoyt. He's still a much better shooter than anyone reading this, especially me, but he's not quite as good as Dave of 3 to 4 years ago.
> 
> There may be some other factors at play here, but giving up the Ultra Elite has had an impact.
> 
> JMHO,
> Allen


I'll pull this even a bit further. I truly feel that certain archers should have never deviated away from certain bow models. Dave and Jamie Van Natta should have never gone away from the Ultra Elite. I also personally feel that some archers (Reo included) should have never deviated away from the Vantage Elite and Vantage Elite Plus.

Only time will tell if one could say the same for Levi going away from the Apex. Again, I await watching him in an controlled indoor environment like Vegas.


----------



## sagecreek

Come on guys, you can hit 30 pages before Friday. Keep it up. You can do it.


----------



## Absolute Archer

aread said:


> It seems that the bow can be a factor in even the top shooters scores. Example: Dave hasn't been quite as dominant since he quit shooting the Ultra Elite. I think that this was about a year before he left Hoyt. He's still a much better shooter than anyone reading this, especially me, but he's not quite as good as Dave of 3 to 4 years ago.
> 
> There may be some other factors at play here, but giving up the Ultra Elite has had an impact.
> 
> JMHO,
> Allen


Well he did shoot his highest score with the Prime.


----------



## knarrly

lol almost 30 pages because a pro shooter switched companies .........................................

Yes Levi is great so is Hopkins, Cuz, Jessie, Reo, etc,etc,etc,etc.........................................


----------



## SHPoet

knarrly said:


> lol almost 30 pages because a pro shooter switched companies .........................................
> 
> Yes Levi is great so is Hopkins, Cuz, Jessie, Reo, etc,etc,etc,etc.........................................


Did you hear that Peyton Manning is playing for the Broncos?


----------



## maxxis88

Ill throw a post in for 30 pages. Even though this thread is dumb and i keep coming back!!!!


----------



## Predator

Bonecutterx said:


> That 98% dealers fault. You are too busy meeting your "goals" with Mathews.
> Ive seen Elites sell very well in shops that did not have the big 3.
> 
> You can point the finger right back at yourself


So are you saying Elite will only sell if there isn't a top brand available? In otherwords, if there isn't a Hoyt, Mathews, PSE or Bowtech in the shop then someone might buy an Elite out of desparation? Interesting.


----------



## Predator

maxxis88 said:


> Ill throw a post in for 30 pages. Even though this thread is dumb and i keep coming back!!!!


Exactly! I think this post and one more will push us to page 30.


----------



## BowsBefore

free post


----------



## Bonecutterx

Predator said:


> So are you saying Elite will only sell if there isn't a top brand available? In otherwords, if there isn't a Hoyt, Mathews, PSE or Bowtech in the shop then someone might buy an Elite out of desparation? Interesting.


Would you like me to break out the crayons an draw you a picture?


----------



## NYSBowman

Predator said:


> So are you saying Elite will only sell if there isn't a top brand available? In otherwords, if there isn't a Hoyt, Mathews, PSE or Bowtech in the shop then someone might buy an Elite out of desparation? Interesting.


I doubt that's what he meant. I assume that he means that the dealer is pushing other brands to hit "goals" that Mathews etc want them to hit.

I would also assume that some(if not many) dealers steer people to whatever brand is most profitable for the dealer.


----------



## rn3

For 30


----------



## shootstraight

I'm referring to limb stop bows, one for instance would be Tim Ewers who is the only one to win indoor Nats as well as outdoor in the same year, 2009 I believe. Though that is BHFS not unlimited. True limb stop bows are winning all the time in ASA events although not the pros but that's mostly because of sponsorship (or lack thereof). 



Beastmaster said:


> I actually pinged some people who shot two track cammed bows in the past.
> 
> Now, these two track cammed bows were cable stop based, not limb stop based. So, one could make the argument that the cable stop based bows are a different cam system. So, there is a technical difference between a dual mirrored cam, non slaved, yoke cabled, cable stopped equipped bow, versus the binary, slaved cam, limb stopped bow.
> 
> But, with that being said, I know that from 1986 to 2003 or so, Martin had the market cornered in the target world using a non slaved, dual mirrored, cable stopped cammed bow (Scepter series to the Scepter 3). You had the Wilde clan, George Ryals, Rodger Willett, Jimmy Butts, Duane Price, and others totally tearing it up using that cam system.
> 
> With that being said, the only known FITA 1400+ shooters to use a slaved binary cam bow successfully (and neither person shoots that system now) was Albina Loginova of Russia and Shaun Teasedale of New Zealand. Albina's score was 1401 score out of 1440, using a pre-overdrive Bowtech, and Shaun's Bowtech was a Brigadier with a 1405 out of 1440. Everyone else on that list used a Martin Scepter (3 or prior), Hoyt, PSE, or Mathews.


----------



## JimmyP

The average hunter don't know who levi or Dave cousin s .so unless they spend a ton of money advertising ,it want change, yes you will see more on the 3 d cir.the shop in my town sold maybe five all year,there a Hoyt ,pse strothers,elite Martin. And now prime dealer.really the only bows that moved at all was Hoyt and pse.but every one that walks through the door for the first time ask,the question.do you sell Mathews.thats the next shop in the next town.i did shoot the new elites and they are sweet,draws really smooth .and set really good.i shoot Mathews but if I was going to try another brand it would be prime.but all the above are sweet


----------



## JimmyP

At a asa tournament lets say there was 1400 there competing in 2013 how many elites were being shot,maybe 50 or a100 now that some of the most poster boys will be shooting them will we see a gain of maybe two or three hundred.i remember when alpine showed up now you might see 5 bow tech came on strong for awhile now at the asa you don't see many.what kind of increase will we see


----------



## Crow Terminator

For what it's worth...Elite didn't sell well in this area either. The problem in this area is that everybody has to have what everybody else has....and this area is dominated by Mathews, but PSE is starting to take hold here as well. I swear though...you could take two Elite bows, exactly the same in every way, and pull the labels off the limbs on one of them and replace them with Mathews stickers, and when people shot them side by side, they would swear the one with Mathews stickers was the better one of the two and buy it, claiming it is the best bow they've ever shot and that the other one sucked. That's just how they are around here.


----------



## JimmyP

ii would say that's how it is here to,I do shoot Mathews but what people see on tv sells. Mathews Hoyt's and pse hold there resale value a little better too.i guess it pays to advertise


----------



## Archerybuff

JimmyP said:


> what kind of increase will we see


Well now that is the $10,000 dollar question isn't? (probably more for Elite, ha ha) IMO the last time a move that could have this much impact (commercially) happened when PSE dumped all the Pro's in the middle of the season and Mathews picked them up. It could have been a non-event had another company stepped in...BUT Mathews scooped them up and marketed it to perfection. Soon the magazines were boasting all of the Mathews tournament wins. It got to a point that some people thought you couldn't go to a 3-D shoot if you weren't shooting a Mathews


----------



## Predator

NYSBowman said:


> I doubt that's what he meant. I assume that he means that the dealer is pushing other brands to hit "goals" that Mathews etc want them to hit.
> 
> I would also assume that some(if not many) dealers steer people to whatever brand is most profitable for the dealer.


Yeah, I know exactly what he meant. Just pushing his buttons which obviously worked with his crayon comment - lol. There is some truth to the issue of dealers pushing what is most profitable for them but dealers also need to push what they have in inventory or they'll take a bath on it. This isn't the magazine business where retailers get to return what they don't sell for a refund.

Also, not every guy that comes into a shop does so without a clue as to what he wants. A good archery company drives demand before the guy ever enters the shop and Elite hasn't yet succeeded in this manner (especially compared to Mathews). This is exactly why they want to sign Levi. They must be hoping to use Levi as the cornerstone for a big marketing campaign. They've got to figure out a way to drive demand in a way they never have otherwise shop owners aren't going to take the risk to carry Elite and the bows aren't going to sell.

Elite is fairly well known on AT (because we know everything ) but on a national scale amongst average Joes, Elite is nobody (yet - will see if this Levi move can change that).


----------



## rogersaddler

Wouldn't it be kind of funny if come Nov 1st that Levi announces that he's staying with mathews after all of this


----------



## Bonecutterx

Hands off my buttons




Predator said:


> Yeah, I know exactly what he meant. Just pushing his buttons which obviously worked with his crayon comment - lol. There is some truth to the issue of dealers pushing what is most profitable for them but dealers also need to push what they have in inventory or they'll take a bath on it. This isn't the magazine business where retailers get to return what they don't sell for a refund.
> 
> Also, not every guy that comes into a shop does so without a clue as to what he wants. A good archery company drives demand before the guy ever enters the shop and Elite hasn't yet succeeded in this manner (especially compared to Mathews). This is exactly why they want to sign Levi. They must be hoping to use Levi as the cornerstone for a big marketing campaign. They've got to figure out a way to drive demand in a way they never have otherwise shop owners aren't going to take the risk to carry Elite and the bows aren't going to sell.
> 
> Elite is fairly well known on AT (because we know everything ) but on a national scale amongst average Joes, Elite is nobody (yet - will see if this Levi move can change that).


----------



## Archerybuff

rogersaddler said:


> Wouldn't it be kind of funny if come Nov 1st that Levi announces that he's staying with mathews after all of this


I bet we could get a 30 page thread debating the different conspiracy theories behind why he switched back


----------



## knarrly

SHPoet said:


> Did you hear that Peyton Manning is playing for the Broncos?


Yes and that proves the point also, Btw stopped hating the Broncos once Elway retired 

Wonder if Irsay learned how to make wonderfully inflaming statements from observing Mathews adds.


----------



## Predator

Bonecutterx said:


> Hands off my buttons


Sorry chief! :wink:


----------



## fast706

This needs to stay on the first page


----------



## ATLurker

JimmyP said:


> At a asa tournament lets say there was 1400 there competing in 2013 how many elites were being shot,maybe 50 or a100 now that some of the most poster boys will be shooting them will we see a gain of maybe two or three hundred.i remember when alpine showed up now you might see 5 bow tech came on strong for awhile now at the asa you don't see many.what kind of increase will we see


A few short years ago Ross bows were all the rage here on AT, but no local shops carried them and I never actually saw one at the range or course. At that time I was shooting indoor and 3D leagues both with a lot of shooters around but yet no Ross bows.

Fast forward a couple years and Athens and Elite are getting a lot of pub on here but still, never seen one in person. No Athens but yet I LIVE IN INDIANA WHERE THEY ARE MADE!

Tons-o-Hoyt and Mathews bows around here though, followed by Bowtech then PSE. Used to be a fair amount of Martins 'caus the biggest shop around is/was a Martin dealer but yet they paled in comparison to Hoyt and Mathews.

I know little about Levi as I don't have cable and don't shoot ASA at all and only local IBO shoots but no longer turn in a scorecard due to the pencil whippers.

Levi or whoever won't make me move to Elite mostly because there aren't any around here to be found.


----------



## THE PHENOM

Rumor is Levi is selling posters with him modeling underwear..You guys that want one just go to his FB page....lmmfao...


----------



## JimmyP

ATLurker said:


> A few short years ago Ross bows were all the rage here on AT, but no local shops carried them and I never actually saw one at the range or course. At that time I was shooting indoor and 3D leagues both with a lot of shooters around but yet no Ross bows.
> 
> Fast forward a couple years and Athens and Elite are getting a lot of pub on here but still, never seen one in person. No Athens but yet I LIVE IN INDIANA WHERE THEY ARE MADE!
> 
> Tons-o-Hoyt and Mathews bows around here though, followed by Bowtech then PSE. Used to be a fair amount of Martins 'caus the biggest shop around is/was a Martin dealer but yet they paled in comparison to Hoyt and Mathews.
> 
> I know little about Levi as I don't have cable and don't shoot ASA at all and only local IBO shoots but no longer turn in a scorecard due to the pencil whippers.
> 
> Levi or whoever won't make me move to Elite mostly because there aren't any around here to be found.


I remember Ross well I talked my shop in carrying the Ross line again had to give them away.


----------



## hoytshooter35

JimmyP said:


> ii would say that's how it is here to,I do shoot Mathews but what people see on tv sells. Mathews Hoyt's and pse hold there resale value a little better too.i guess it pays to advertise


That is a great point. That's why it is a win for elite. Levi has a show that after two seasons is already top 5 in rating. When Elite sponsors NTG....Sells will increase. If you take every sticker off every brand of bow and shot them all...most people would probably like a bow other than Mathews Hoyt or PSE. For 14 years I have been a diehard Hoyt guy, but after shooting 70% of all the bows on the market for fun I realized something. There was a bow I would hunt with and ENjOY in every brand. I started with Hoyt because that's all there was in my area but continued shooting one because I idolized Michael Waddell. But now.....I am currently looking to switch to something jut to change it up. I love Hoyt but I want to try something new.


----------



## hoytshooter35

Predator said:


> Yeah, I know exactly what he meant. Just pushing his buttons which obviously worked with his crayon comment - lol. There is some truth to the issue of dealers pushing what is most profitable for them but dealers also need to push what they have in inventory or they'll take a bath on it. This isn't the magazine business where retailers get to return what they don't sell for a refund.
> 
> Also, not every guy that comes into a shop does so without a clue as to what he wants. A good archery company drives demand before the guy ever enters the shop and Elite hasn't yet succeeded in this manner (especially compared to Mathews). This is exactly why they want to sign Levi. They must be hoping to use Levi as the cornerstone for a big marketing campaign. They've got to figure out a way to drive demand in a way they never have otherwise shop owners aren't going to take the risk to carry Elite and the bows aren't going to sell.
> 
> Elite is fairly well known on AT (because we know everything ) but on a national scale amongst average Joes, Elite is nobody (yet - will see if this Levi move can change that).


It won't change immediately but over the next few years with increase in sales Elite will get because of Levi, word of mouth will continue their growth, as will adding more big names which they'll do over the next few years. They are a new company and will do anything to increase sells and their name. Mathews did same thing by paying big bucks in tournaments when they started out. Then "everyone" started shooting Mathews because they were next big thing. Nowadays, everyone makes a good bow. I love hearing people talk about how much they love Diamond but hate Bowtech. Haha. Or when people shot Reflex, people here said they shoot as good as a Hoyt. They didn't know Hoyt made Reflex. My brother was one of them. I think with Levi, Elite will make better bows each and every year and will eventually be on level as Mathews and Hoyt. "There's always a young buck who shows up outta no where!"


----------



## hoytshooter35

Predator said:


> Yeah, I know exactly what he meant. Just pushing his buttons which obviously worked with his crayon comment - lol. There is some truth to the issue of dealers pushing what is most profitable for them but dealers also need to push what they have in inventory or they'll take a bath on it. This isn't the magazine business where retailers get to return what they don't sell for a refund.
> 
> Also, not every guy that comes into a shop does so without a clue as to what he wants. A good archery company drives demand before the guy ever enters the shop and Elite hasn't yet succeeded in this manner (especially compared to Mathews). This is exactly why they want to sign Levi. They must be hoping to use Levi as the cornerstone for a big marketing campaign. They've got to figure out a way to drive demand in a way they never have otherwise shop owners aren't going to take the risk to carry Elite and the bows aren't going to sell.
> 
> Elite is fairly well known on AT (because we know everything ) but on a national scale amongst average Joes, Elite is nobody (yet - will see if this Levi move can change that).


It won't change immediately but over the next few years with increase in sales Elite will get because of Levi, word of mouth will continue their growth, as will adding more big names which they'll do over the next few years. They are a new company and will do anything to increase sells and their name. Mathews did same thing by paying big bucks in tournaments when they started out. Then "everyone" started shooting Mathews because they were next big thing. Nowadays, everyone makes a good bow. I love hearing people talk about how much they love Diamond but hate Bowtech. Haha. Or when people shot Reflex, people here said they shoot as good as a Hoyt. They didn't know Hoyt made Reflex. My brother was one of them. I think with Levi, Elite will make better bows each and every year and will eventually be on level as Mathews and Hoyt. "There's always a young buck who shows up outta no where!"


----------



## Jay-J

I admit I am one of those that think Elite is a second tier bow company and will always stay that way! If nothing else Elite was started by K. Strother and I can not stand the guy so no matter who shoots for them I will never like Elite! Bad move on Levi's part if you ask me...


----------



## THE PHENOM

hoytshooter35 said:


> It won't change immediately but over the next few years with increase in sales Elite will get because of Levi, word of mouth will continue their growth, as will adding more big names which they'll do over the next few years. They are a new company and will do anything to increase sells and their name. Mathews did same thing by paying big bucks in tournaments when they started out. Then "everyone" started shooting Mathews because they were next big thing. Nowadays, everyone makes a good bow. I love hearing people talk about how much they love Diamond but hate Bowtech. Haha. Or when people shot Reflex, people here said they shoot as good as a Hoyt. They didn't know Hoyt made Reflex. My brother was one of them. I think with Levi, Elite will make better bows each and every year and will eventually be on level as Mathews and Hoyt. "There's always a young buck who shows up outta no where!"



Mathews isn't even a top three bow imho and others...Same old technology year after year...Levi may have sold bows for them but they didn't get better every year thats for sure...In no certain order but Hoyt, Bowtech and PSE are way above Mathews...Just sayin...


----------



## Giger

THE PHENOM said:


> Mathews isn't even a top three bow imho and others...Same old technology year after year...Levi may have sold bows for them but they didn't get better every year thats for sure...In no certain order but Hoyt, Bowtech and PSE are way above Mathews...Just sayin...


Agree with this guy^^^


----------



## Radford Wooly

Jay-J said:


> I admit I am one of those that think Elite is a second tier bow company and will always stay that way! If nothing else Elite was started by K. Strother and I can not stand the guy so no matter who shoots for them I will never like Elite! Bad move on Levi's part if you ask me...


I'd put my Elite up against any of your "Top Tier" bows. All this "my bow is better than yours" is getting old. Who cares what you have as long as you're shooting.


----------



## locate101

levi is shooting for elite I heard it from a good source


----------



## -bowfreak-

Radford Wooly said:


> I'd put my Elite up against any of your "Top Tier" bows. All this "my bow is better than yours" is getting old. Who cares what you have as long as you're shooting.



How can you "put it up" against another bow? There is no way to test bows against others. It is all subjective. Don't take offense so much to the fact that many will always see them as second level. Hyundai makes some great cars and many many people like them but most people would consider them second rate compared to the big 3 even if they make better vehicles. This is even considering all of the issues that the 2 bailout automakers have too. When someone has been big man on campus for so many years it is almost impossible to dethrone them even if your product is light years better than theirs.


----------



## Irish66

Jay-J said:


> I admit I am one of those that think Elite is a second tier bow company and will always stay that way! If nothing else Elite was started by K. Strother and I can not stand the guy so no matter who shoots for them I will never like Elite! Bad move on Levi's part if you ask me...


What exactly makes Elite a second tier Bow in your opinion? 
Is it the warranty they have to back up their products?
is it the DC? the Valley? is it the Fit and finish ? is it the shootability? 
I bet Elite had to twist Levi's arm to make him shoot a second rate bow.:thumbs_up

C'MON MAN!!!!


----------



## lavazhole

thare1774 said:


> We also found them impossible to sell unfortunately. We had to sell em at cost to move em out. Im talkin we still had 2010 bows a few months ago.


Its not the bows fault....more on the salesman...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## -bowfreak-

lavazhole said:


> Its not the bows fault....more on the salesman...
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


If you can't sell those bows using a cool catch phrase like "3 legged dog and one bad mutha" you have serious problems. lain:


----------



## Ky*Bowhunter

It's hard to sell a bow just on the shootability aspect. When you go to a bow shop and line it up against Mathews, Hoyt, or Pse they just wont sell. They wont sell that good because people want flash and sex appeal. Yeah they probably shoot great but when a PSE shoots just as good and has 20-30 fps on it people just aint buyin based on "shootability". People want speed, flash and MORE SPEED. Granted most people that buy a bow are not educated buyers. People that are more advanced search for a certain feel and know better. And as far as Levi goin to elite goes I just dont know if elite putting all their eggs in one basket is gonna help that much....


----------



## Irish66

Ky*Bowhunter said:


> It's hard to sell a bow just on the shootability aspect. When you go to a bow shop and line it up against Mathews, Hoyt, or Pse they just wont sell. They wont sell that good because people want flash and sex appeal. Yeah they probably shoot great but when a PSE shoots just as good and has 20-30 fps on it people just aint buyin based on "shootability". People want speed, flash and MORE SPEED. Granted most people that buy a bow are not educated buyers. People that are more advanced search for a certain feel and know better. And as far as Levi goin to elite goes I just dont know if elite putting all their eggs in one basket is gonna help that much....


hmmmmm, I agree that a lot newer archers are uneducated about how different bows are. What if the salesperson asked the question. " what are you looking for in a bow?"
Do you just want just a fast bow or a bow that you can go out on the weekend and shoot it with out tearing your body up? 
not all archers are 20 years old and in 20 yr old shape lol

I don't agree that a PSE that is supposedly shooting 30fps faster will shoot just as good as An Answer or the E35. 
How is Elite putting all their eggs in one basket with Levi? Don't understand


----------



## Lien2

On Tuesday Samantha posted a picture on facebook of her Dad after he shot a buck but he was still in the stand, hanging next to him was an Elite bow.
After a few comments and one saying "Looks like Pops forgot to hide the bow" (or something like that), she removed her post. :embara:


----------



## reaper159

Lien2 said:


> On Tuesday Samantha posted a picture on facebook of her Dad after he shot a buck but he was still in the stand, hanging next to him was an Elite bow.
> After a few comments and one saying "Looks like Pops forgot to hide the bow" (or something like that), she removed her post. :embara:


If this is true I personally think it will be great for Elite. I guess we'll find out Tommarrow....


----------



## Irish66

Drum roll.............................


----------



## Absolute Archer

Archerybuff said:


> Well now that is the $10,000 dollar question isn't? (probably more for Elite, ha ha) IMO the last time a move that could have this much impact (commercially) happened when PSE dumped all the Pro's in the middle of the season and Mathews picked them up. It could have been a non-event had another company stepped in...BUT Mathews scooped them up and marketed it to perfection. Soon the magazines were boasting all of the Mathews tournament wins. It got to a point that some people thought you couldn't go to a 3-D shoot if you weren't shooting a Mathews


I was one of those shooters that got canned by PSE than like you said everyone went to Mathews. PSE got the point and are now building a good team again. Tim Gillingham is going to PSE this year from Hoyt. Hoyt is starting to go down that road with cutting back on money, they will see a drop in sales next year because of this. It always happens when company's cut back on their shooters. Years ago we all shot for Bear/Jennings than they cut their team everyone went to PSE, than to Mathews. Every bow company that does not or have cut way back on their shooter programs have all took huge dives or have just never made it to the top 3 or 5 bow companies. Shooters sell bows plain and simple.


----------



## -bowfreak-

Absolute Archer said:


> I was one of those shooters that got canned by PSE than like you said everyone went to Mathews. PSE got the point and are now building a good team again. Tim Gillingham is going to PSE this year from Hoyt. Hoyt is starting to go down that road with cutting back on money, they will see a drop in sales next year because of this. It always happens when company's cut back on their shooters. Years ago we all shot for Bear/Jennings than they cut their team everyone went to PSE, than to Mathews. Every bow company that does not or have cut way back on their shooter programs have all took huge dives or have just never made it to the top 3 or 5 bow companies. Shooters sell bows plain and simple.



I would venture to guess that Professional target archers sell WAY less bows than guys who have hunting shows.....matter of fact.....I would almost guarantee it. The average person would have no idea who Levi was if he didn't have a show on the outdoor channel. It is why you see Bone Collector and Vicxen packages for bows and not Reo and Erica packages.


----------



## Beastmaster

Radford Wooly said:


> I'd put my Elite up against any of your "Top Tier" bows. All this "my bow is better than yours" is getting old. Who cares what you have as long as you're shooting.





Irish66 said:


> What exactly makes Elite a second tier Bow in your opinion?
> Is it the warranty they have to back up their products?
> is it the DC? the Valley? is it the Fit and finish ? is it the shootability?
> I bet Elite had to twist Levi's arm to make him shoot a second rate bow.:thumbs_up
> 
> C'MON MAN!!!!


Being blunt...

Until you have a company that:

1) Creates their own cam design to a certain extent
2) Quits buying bow designs from another company (read, Barnsdale)
3) Starts cutting their own limbs and not buy them premade from Gordon or Barnsdale (note - nearly everyone buys the glass composite from Gordon. The big 4 buys the composite in bulk and rolls their own in house using the composite from Gordon)

You will be considered a candidate for being a second tier bow company. 

Barnsdale and Elite have a pretty close relationship regarding their risers. Pete machines risers for Dave. Dave, in turn, supplies Pete with limbs; although I don't know whether Dave gives them the 6 layer or 3 layer versions.

Barnsdale also licenses their riser designs for other companies to use, with minor modifications done by the manufacturing facility themselves. Look at the similarities between Elite, Athens, and New Breed. All of them use some sort of Barnsdale derived designs in their bow lineup.

But...until you are on the level of Hoyt, PSE, Mathews, and Bowtech - where these 4 companies do it mostly or all in house, Elite will still be viewed as a second tier company. And, unfortunately, unless Elite buys out Dave Barnsdale, I don't see their status as a second tier bow company changing any time soon. Their releases, sights, and string divisions will still eclipse Elite for a while in terms of name recognition.

Now, Elite is making strides to change the view of that. It's being changed by acquisition rather than anything else. The growth by acquisition, in turn, will allow Pete and his holding company (The Outdoor Group, which owns Elite, CBE, Scott, Winner's Choice, and some other companies) to collectively pool their money together for more growth.

Speaking theoretically and using the possibility that Elite and TOG does land Levi, this would be another growth by acquisition. The terms of how this endeavor will work are still unknown, and likely will be unknown until you start seeing sponsorship logos and other things going on. But buying a big name for a hunting show and to snag a high quality archer is definitely a growth by acquisition method.

Now, I'm going to throw out some other theoreticals, with some of the basis of the theoreticals bourne from discussions with designers and other industry insiders. Some of the industry insiders include George Ryals (former design head at Martin, now a shooter with Hoyt), Dave Kronengold (PSE's VP of Engineering), Dave Watson (Mathews), and others. Some of the theoreticals may anger some people. My view on that? Tough. One of my jobs as a writer and analyst in this industry is to do this type of thing...my view may not be popular, but it's how I see it from a personal view.

The first theoretical - a slaved dual cam, limb stopped bow will never tune as well as a cable stopped twin cam bow. This is borne from the sheer fact that if you look at the highest levels of competitive archery, you have very few people that can pull a successful run off with a slaved dual cam, limb stopped bow.

I'll throw this out as why. If a company can give away to their pro shooters a bow that costs $899 MSRP (call this one a slaved dual cam bow) and can perform, why would they give their pro shooters a bow that's in the $1300 to $1500 MSRP range (call these the hybrid cam/solo cam bows)? The less the bow company tosses out to their pro shooters, the more profits that the bow company sees in their bottom line.

In prior USA Archery contracts with Hoyt, even the highest level shooters (top 5 USAT) only get a certain amount for free. Beyond that "free" point, the rest comes out of their pocket. If you're going to shoot with stuff that works, wouldn't you use the stuff that works that hits your pocketbook the least? Discounts notwithstanding - if you have a lower outlay in your bows, you have more to spend on higher end arrows, sights, and other items.

Even in the high end youth competitive circles (where I tend to hang around in), the slaved dual cam bows have an upper limitation while trying to perform for the high end shooters. I feel that I'm one of the better bow tuners out there as a Junior Olympic coach, and I have one heck of a time getting slaved dual cam bows to work as well as I can get a solo cammed and hybrid cammed bows to work. Even bows that use two track, yoke cabled cams (like the Bowtech Specialist) can tune far better and easier than the slaved dual cams. This is why you see even the high end youth shooters (down to 10-12 year olds) using modified Hoyt target bows, Mathews target bows, and modified PSE target bows. 

Which leads into the second theoretical.

The second theoretical is - archers that are on the top of their game now (guys like Reo/Logan/Dee Wilde, Dave Cousins, Braden Gellenthien, Tim Gillingham, among others) all cut their teeth on the FEEL of a bow and it's cam set. It's irrelevant as to WHO the manufacturer is, it's the FEEL of the bow that's important.

Dave Cousins and the Prime bows use a cable stop system (and yes, the Prime cam systems CAN use limb stops. The fact that Dave uses cable stops speaks volumes). That's very similar to the Spirals and XTR cams that Dave used when he was at Hoyt. Reo/Logan/Dee Wilde, George Ryals, and others that migrated from Martin (and the cable stopped Fury cams) all shoot cable stopped bows on the Hoyt lineup. Braden went from Hoyt to Mathews...but the bows that Braden shoots are cable stopped bows in the Apex lineup. Paige Pearce went from hybrid cam, cable stopped bows in the Hoyt lineup to hybrid cam, cable stopped bows in the PSE lineup. 

It's all in the feel. 

The third theoretical - the less shots you need to take in terms of the transition, the better off you will be when you move from one manufacturer to another.

Human science says it takes up to 10,000 repetitions for something to get ingrained into your muscle memory. This is a raw reality. 

Using Levi as an example, if he transitions from Mathews to Elite, there is going to be a HUGE difference in feel for him in terms of one bow lineup (Mathews) to another (Elite).

Unless Elite pulls out a Barnsdale derived special riser and some sort of cable stopped cam design, Levi will have a decent amount of transition time to go from one brand to another.

This is probably why there's been very little views of him in the Facebook and other social media world. I see more stuff from Samantha coming out of their family household rather than from Levi. He's working his rear end off to ensure he gets the feel of the bow down pat AND can do so in a competitive environment. And yes, there was a recent oopsie done by Samantha. 

Even in the youth environment, once you see kids using a particular riser design and cam system, you see them sticking with it. Feel and tunability are key, even in the youth circles.

Which brings things to the final theoretical (for this post). That's money.

This is where things get a bit muddy. When people transition from one bow company to another, it's money, but it also is to where the archer feels they can transition from one bow lineup to another one with a minimum of issues...and WIN.

Using other aforementioned archers as examples - The whole lot of them migrate from one bow company to another because of money and feel. Archers don't want to spend time having to relearn everything...they want to hit the ground running as fast as possible. Using the Wilde clan as an example, there are very similar feels between the Fury cam and the Spiral cam. Their transition to Hoyt allowed the family to continue their winning ways AND get more sponsorship funds out of it. 

Sponsors like winning ways. Sponsors expect it.

Money is nice. Your bank account likes the money. Your ego likes money AND being on the podium. Smart archers who know better will feed both.

This is where the confusing part comes into play. There is going to be a transition. Unless Elite comes out using a cam set system that's cable stopped (which, by the way, is possible based upon the Strother patent that the Tour cam systems are based upon), the transition will be a bit harder.

A lot of these theoreticals are interlinked. They have to be as part of the consideration an archer needs to take as they further their archery career.

I await the backlash. Let the debate begin further.

-Steve


----------



## Absolute Archer

-bowfreak- said:


> I would venture to guess that Professional target archers sell WAY less bows than guys who have hunting shows.....matter of fact.....I would almost guarantee it. The average person would have no idea who Levi was if he didn't have a show on the outdoor channel. It is why you see Bone Collector and Vicxen packages for bows and not Reo and Erica packages.


I agree with some of that. It is advertising either way. But NO bow company has EVER made it to the top 5 without a good shooting staff.


----------



## Beastmaster

-bowfreak- said:


> I would venture to guess that Professional target archers sell WAY less bows than guys who have hunting shows.....matter of fact.....I would almost guarantee it. The average person would have no idea who Levi was if he didn't have a show on the outdoor channel. It is why you see Bone Collector and Vicxen packages for bows and not Reo and Erica packages.


Ding ding ding. You have a winner here. This isn't NASCAR where you have a Win on Sunday, sell on Monday situation. Hunters outnumber target archers by a huge amount. Hunting shows have way more impact than a target archer does, even in the 3D world.


----------



## Absolute Archer

Beastmaster said:


> Ding ding ding. You have a winner here. This isn't NASCAR where you have a Win on Sunday, sell on Monday situation. Hunters outnumber target archers by a huge amount. Hunting shows have way more impact than a target archer does, even in the 3D world.


Well you don't see any bow company's that have TV shows that do not already have a good shooting staff as well. Unless you want to count Andy Ross. But ya look at well that bow company is doing.


----------



## Brad HT

Beastmaster...
this question is based out of my ignorance of how cam systems work... so I apologize, but why is it much harder to get a limb stop cam to tune rather than a cable stopped one....?

B~


----------



## -bowfreak-

Absolute Archer said:


> Well you don't see any bow company's that have TV shows that do not already have a good shooting staff as well. Unless you want to count Andy Ross. But ya look at well that bow company is doing.



I think Bowtech is doing ok......what kind of target archery staff do they have? :dontknow:

Matter of fact.....I am not sure that they don't have the best model for market success?


----------



## Absolute Archer

This is true they have done well but do have a shooting staff just not a big one. This is the only company that has done this well with out a large shooting staff I will admit that.


----------



## Irish66

Beastmaster said:


> Being blunt...
> 
> Until you have a company that:
> 
> 1) Creates their own cam design to a certain extent
> 2) Quits buying bow designs from another company (read, Barnsdale)
> 3) Starts cutting their own limbs and not buy them premade from Gordon or Barnsdale (note - nearly everyone buys the glass composite from Gordon. The big 4 buys the composite in bulk and rolls their own in house using the composite from Gordon)
> 
> You will be considered a candidate for being a second tier bow company.
> 
> Barnsdale and Elite have a pretty close relationship regarding their risers. Pete machines risers for Dave. Dave, in turn, supplies Pete with limbs; although I don't know whether Dave gives them the 6 layer or 3 layer versions.
> 
> Barnsdale also licenses their riser designs for other companies to use, with minor modifications done by the manufacturing facility themselves. Look at the similarities between Elite, Athens, and New Breed. All of them use some sort of Barnsdale derived designs in their bow lineup.
> 
> But...until you are on the level of Hoyt, PSE, Mathews, and Bowtech - where these 4 companies do it mostly or all in house, Elite will still be viewed as a second tier company. And, unfortunately, unless Elite buys out Dave Barnsdale, I don't see their status as a second tier bow company changing any time soon. Their releases, sights, and string divisions will still eclipse Elite for a while in terms of name recognition.
> 
> Now, Elite is making strides to change the view of that. It's being changed by acquisition rather than anything else. The growth by acquisition, in turn, will allow Pete and his holding company (The Outdoor Group, which owns Elite, CBE, Scott, Winner's Choice, and some other companies) to collectively pool their money together for more growth.
> 
> Speaking theoretically and using the possibility that Elite and TOG does land Levi, this would be another growth by acquisition. The terms of how this endeavor will work are still unknown, and likely will be unknown until you start seeing sponsorship logos and other things going on. But buying a big name for a hunting show and to snag a high quality archer is definitely a growth by acquisition method.
> 
> Now, I'm going to throw out some other theoreticals, with some of the basis of the theoreticals bourne from discussions with designers and other industry insiders. Some of the industry insiders include George Ryals (former design head at Martin, now a shooter with Hoyt), Dave Kronengold (PSE's VP of Engineering), Dave Watson (Mathews), and others. Some of the theoreticals may anger some people. My view on that? Tough. One of my jobs as a writer and analyst in this industry is to do this type of thing...my view may not be popular, but it's how I see it from a personal view.
> 
> The first theoretical - a slaved dual cam, limb stopped bow will never tune as well as a cable stopped twin cam bow. This is borne from the sheer fact that if you look at the highest levels of competitive archery, you have very few people that can pull a successful run off with a slaved dual cam, limb stopped bow.
> 
> I'll throw this out as why. If a company can give away to their pro shooters a bow that costs $899 MSRP (call this one a slaved dual cam bow) and can perform, why would they give their pro shooters a bow that's in the $1300 to $1500 MSRP range (call these the hybrid cam/solo cam bows)? The less the bow company tosses out to their pro shooters, the more profits that the bow company sees in their bottom line.
> 
> In prior USA Archery contracts with Hoyt, even the highest level shooters (top 5 USAT) only get a certain amount for free. Beyond that "free" point, the rest comes out of their pocket. If you're going to shoot with stuff that works, wouldn't you use the stuff that works that hits your pocketbook the least? Discounts notwithstanding - if you have a lower outlay in your bows, you have more to spend on higher end arrows, sights, and other items.
> 
> Even in the high end youth competitive circles (where I tend to hang around in), the slaved dual cam bows have an upper limitation while trying to perform for the high end shooters. I feel that I'm one of the better bow tuners out there as a Junior Olympic coach, and I have one heck of a time getting slaved dual cam bows to work as well as I can get a solo cammed and hybrid cammed bows to work. Even bows that use two track, yoke cabled cams (like the Bowtech Specialist) can tune far better and easier than the slaved dual cams. This is why you see even the high end youth shooters (down to 10-12 year olds) using modified Hoyt target bows, Mathews target bows, and modified PSE target bows.
> 
> Which leads into the second theoretical.
> 
> The second theoretical is - archers that are on the top of their game now (guys like Reo/Logan/Dee Wilde, Dave Cousins, Braden Gellenthien, Tim Gillingham, among others) all cut their teeth on the FEEL of a bow and it's cam set. It's irrelevant as to WHO the manufacturer is, it's the FEEL of the bow that's important.
> 
> Dave Cousins and the Prime bows use a cable stop system (and yes, the Prime cam systems CAN use limb stops. The fact that Dave uses cable stops speaks volumes). That's very similar to the Spirals and XTR cams that Dave used when he was at Hoyt. Reo/Logan/Dee Wilde, George Ryals, and others that migrated from Martin (and the cable stopped Fury cams) all shoot cable stopped bows on the Hoyt lineup. Braden went from Hoyt to Mathews...but the bows that Braden shoots are cable stopped bows in the Apex lineup. Paige Pearce went from hybrid cam, cable stopped bows in the Hoyt lineup to hybrid cam, cable stopped bows in the PSE lineup.
> 
> It's all in the feel.
> 
> The third theoretical - the less shots you need to take in terms of the transition, the better off you will be when you move from one manufacturer to another.
> 
> Human science says it takes up to 10,000 repetitions for something to get ingrained into your muscle memory. This is a raw reality.
> 
> Using Levi as an example, if he transitions from Mathews to Elite, there is going to be a HUGE difference in feel for him in terms of one bow lineup (Mathews) to another (Elite).
> 
> Unless Elite pulls out a Barnsdale derived special riser and some sort of cable stopped cam design, Levi will have a decent amount of transition time to go from one brand to another.
> 
> This is probably why there's been very little views of him in the Facebook and other social media world. I see more stuff from Samantha coming out of their family household rather than from Levi. He's working his rear end off to ensure he gets the feel of the bow down pat AND can do so in a competitive environment. And yes, there was a recent oopsie done by Samantha.
> 
> Even in the youth environment, once you see kids using a particular riser design and cam system, you see them sticking with it. Feel and tunability are key, even in the youth circles.
> 
> Which brings things to the final theoretical (for this post). That's money.
> 
> This is where things get a bit muddy. When people transition from one bow company to another, it's money, but it also is to where the archer feels they can transition from one bow lineup to another one with a minimum of issues...and WIN.
> 
> Using other aforementioned archers as examples - The whole lot of them migrate from one bow company to another because of money and feel. Archers don't want to spend time having to relearn everything...they want to hit the ground running as fast as possible. Using the Wilde clan as an example, there are very similar feels between the Fury cam and the Spiral cam. Their transition to Hoyt allowed the family to continue their winning ways AND get more sponsorship funds out of it.
> 
> Sponsors like winning ways. Sponsors expect it.
> 
> Money is nice. Your bank account likes the money. Your ego likes money AND being on the podium. Smart archers who know better will feed both.
> 
> This is where the confusing part comes into play. There is going to be a transition. Unless Elite comes out using a cam set system that's cable stopped (which, by the way, is possible based upon the Strother patent that the Tour cam systems are based upon), the transition will be a bit harder.
> 
> A lot of these theoreticals are interlinked. They have to be as part of the consideration an archer needs to take as they further their archery career.
> 
> I await the backlash. Let the debate begin further.
> 
> -Steve


Thank you for all the info... so are you saying that Elite(2nd tier) makes bows that are inferior because they don't make their own limbs,designs ect?


----------



## sagecreek

Elite designs their own risers. They just happened to build one with the specs that Dave thought would make a perfect tournament bow. The Tour. So they build it for Dave with his 6 layer limbs and he calls it the My Addiction. It is also polished more.


----------



## Rolo

Pins and needles. Pins and needles...I'm sitting on pins and needles.


----------



## AthensArchery

Athens has a ton of respect for Dave but we do not use his riser design. 
If I remember correctly you shot that Exceed pretty well :thumb: 




Beastmaster said:


> Being blunt...
> 
> Until you have a company that:
> 
> 1) Creates their own cam design to a certain extent
> 2) Quits buying bow designs from another company (read, Barnsdale)
> 3) Starts cutting their own limbs and not buy them premade from Gordon or Barnsdale (note - nearly everyone buys the glass composite from Gordon. The big 4 buys the composite in bulk and rolls their own in house using the composite from Gordon)
> 
> You will be considered a candidate for being a second tier bow company.
> 
> Barnsdale and Elite have a pretty close relationship regarding their risers. Pete machines risers for Dave. Dave, in turn, supplies Pete with limbs; although I don't know whether Dave gives them the 6 layer or 3 layer versions.
> 
> Barnsdale also licenses their riser designs for other companies to use, with minor modifications done by the manufacturing facility themselves. Look at the similarities between Elite, Athens, and New Breed. All of them use some sort of Barnsdale derived designs in their bow lineup.
> 
> But...until you are on the level of Hoyt, PSE, Mathews, and Bowtech - where these 4 companies do it mostly or all in house, Elite will still be viewed as a second tier company. And, unfortunately, unless Elite buys out Dave Barnsdale, I don't see their status as a second tier bow company changing any time soon. Their releases, sights, and string divisions will still eclipse Elite for a while in terms of name recognition.
> 
> Now, Elite is making strides to change the view of that. It's being changed by acquisition rather than anything else. The growth by acquisition, in turn, will allow Pete and his holding company (The Outdoor Group, which owns Elite, CBE, Scott, Winner's Choice, and some other companies) to collectively pool their money together for more growth.
> 
> Speaking theoretically and using the possibility that Elite and TOG does land Levi, this would be another growth by acquisition. The terms of how this endeavor will work are still unknown, and likely will be unknown until you start seeing sponsorship logos and other things going on. But buying a big name for a hunting show and to snag a high quality archer is definitely a growth by acquisition method.
> 
> Now, I'm going to throw out some other theoreticals, with some of the basis of the theoreticals bourne from discussions with designers and other industry insiders. Some of the industry insiders include George Ryals (former design head at Martin, now a shooter with Hoyt), Dave Kronengold (PSE's VP of Engineering), Dave Watson (Mathews), and others. Some of the theoreticals may anger some people. My view on that? Tough. One of my jobs as a writer and analyst in this industry is to do this type of thing...my view may not be popular, but it's how I see it from a personal view.
> 
> The first theoretical - a slaved dual cam, limb stopped bow will never tune as well as a cable stopped twin cam bow. This is borne from the sheer fact that if you look at the highest levels of competitive archery, you have very few people that can pull a successful run off with a slaved dual cam, limb stopped bow.
> 
> I'll throw this out as why. If a company can give away to their pro shooters a bow that costs $899 MSRP (call this one a slaved dual cam bow) and can perform, why would they give their pro shooters a bow that's in the $1300 to $1500 MSRP range (call these the hybrid cam/solo cam bows)? The less the bow company tosses out to their pro shooters, the more profits that the bow company sees in their bottom line.
> 
> In prior USA Archery contracts with Hoyt, even the highest level shooters (top 5 USAT) only get a certain amount for free. Beyond that "free" point, the rest comes out of their pocket. If you're going to shoot with stuff that works, wouldn't you use the stuff that works that hits your pocketbook the least? Discounts notwithstanding - if you have a lower outlay in your bows, you have more to spend on higher end arrows, sights, and other items.
> 
> Even in the high end youth competitive circles (where I tend to hang around in), the slaved dual cam bows have an upper limitation while trying to perform for the high end shooters. I feel that I'm one of the better bow tuners out there as a Junior Olympic coach, and I have one heck of a time getting slaved dual cam bows to work as well as I can get a solo cammed and hybrid cammed bows to work. Even bows that use two track, yoke cabled cams (like the Bowtech Specialist) can tune far better and easier than the slaved dual cams. This is why you see even the high end youth shooters (down to 10-12 year olds) using modified Hoyt target bows, Mathews target bows, and modified PSE target bows.
> 
> Which leads into the second theoretical.
> 
> The second theoretical is - archers that are on the top of their game now (guys like Reo/Logan/Dee Wilde, Dave Cousins, Braden Gellenthien, Tim Gillingham, among others) all cut their teeth on the FEEL of a bow and it's cam set. It's irrelevant as to WHO the manufacturer is, it's the FEEL of the bow that's important.
> 
> Dave Cousins and the Prime bows use a cable stop system (and yes, the Prime cam systems CAN use limb stops. The fact that Dave uses cable stops speaks volumes). That's very similar to the Spirals and XTR cams that Dave used when he was at Hoyt. Reo/Logan/Dee Wilde, George Ryals, and others that migrated from Martin (and the cable stopped Fury cams) all shoot cable stopped bows on the Hoyt lineup. Braden went from Hoyt to Mathews...but the bows that Braden shoots are cable stopped bows in the Apex lineup. Paige Pearce went from hybrid cam, cable stopped bows in the Hoyt lineup to hybrid cam, cable stopped bows in the PSE lineup.
> 
> It's all in the feel.
> 
> The third theoretical - the less shots you need to take in terms of the transition, the better off you will be when you move from one manufacturer to another.
> 
> Human science says it takes up to 10,000 repetitions for something to get ingrained into your muscle memory. This is a raw reality.
> 
> Using Levi as an example, if he transitions from Mathews to Elite, there is going to be a HUGE difference in feel for him in terms of one bow lineup (Mathews) to another (Elite).
> 
> Unless Elite pulls out a Barnsdale derived special riser and some sort of cable stopped cam design, Levi will have a decent amount of transition time to go from one brand to another.
> 
> This is probably why there's been very little views of him in the Facebook and other social media world. I see more stuff from Samantha coming out of their family household rather than from Levi. He's working his rear end off to ensure he gets the feel of the bow down pat AND can do so in a competitive environment. And yes, there was a recent oopsie done by Samantha.
> 
> Even in the youth environment, once you see kids using a particular riser design and cam system, you see them sticking with it. Feel and tunability are key, even in the youth circles.
> 
> Which brings things to the final theoretical (for this post). That's money.
> 
> This is where things get a bit muddy. When people transition from one bow company to another, it's money, but it also is to where the archer feels they can transition from one bow lineup to another one with a minimum of issues...and WIN.
> 
> Using other aforementioned archers as examples - The whole lot of them migrate from one bow company to another because of money and feel. Archers don't want to spend time having to relearn everything...they want to hit the ground running as fast as possible. Using the Wilde clan as an example, there are very similar feels between the Fury cam and the Spiral cam. Their transition to Hoyt allowed the family to continue their winning ways AND get more sponsorship funds out of it.
> 
> Sponsors like winning ways. Sponsors expect it.
> 
> Money is nice. Your bank account likes the money. Your ego likes money AND being on the podium. Smart archers who know better will feed both.
> 
> This is where the confusing part comes into play. There is going to be a transition. Unless Elite comes out using a cam set system that's cable stopped (which, by the way, is possible based upon the Strother patent that the Tour cam systems are based upon), the transition will be a bit harder.
> 
> A lot of these theoreticals are interlinked. They have to be as part of the consideration an archer needs to take as they further their archery career.
> 
> I await the backlash. Let the debate begin further.
> 
> -Steve


----------



## deafcon2

Elite may not be in the big 4 as far as sales but I think they rank # 1 as far as the most talked about bow company. On and off AT.


----------



## Garceau

Beastmaster said:


> Being blunt...
> 
> 
> I'll throw this out as why. If a company can give away to their pro shooters a bow that costs $899 MSRP (call this one a slaved dual cam bow) and can perform, why would they give their pro shooters a bow that's in the $1300 to $1500 MSRP range (call these the hybrid cam/solo cam bows)? The less the bow company tosses out to their pro shooters, the more profits that the bow company sees in their bottom line.
> 
> -Steve


Only answer I have to that would be, because they want others that witness the more expensive bows in action go out and purchase that.


----------



## Jay-J

I agree with everything Beastmaster said! I also agree with what was posted a while back.... If Levi comes out and has his usual good year everyone will say, "see, he can win with anything!" But if he comes out and doesn't do as well everyone will say, " see, its the bow, not the archer! That being said I don't see that happening! The guy is phenomenal and I think he will continue to have success no matter what he shoots....Also, if he doesn't do as well this next year this will be Props for Mathews that they are getting for FREE!!!!! Either way I really like Levi and Sam and wish them the best no matter what.


----------



## hoytshooter35

I would be willing to bet, if in fact he switched which i am 98% sure he is, Levi has already put more than 10,000 shots on his Elite. I guarantee you he has had an elite in his house a month before tournament season ended. For crying out loud he shot his right hand bow left handed...in a shoot down. And was less than have an inch from a 12 on a 37 yard target. How uncomfortable that must have FELT!! He can shoot and win with anything he has confidence in. If he wasn't confident in Elite, he wouldn't go to Elite. If he doesn't quit competition shooting, he'll break every major 3-D record there is. Including Shooter of the year. He is the best 3D shooter ever but people won't see that until he has all or Most of records. Peyton Manning has played quarterback position better than anyone ever has in history but by many is considered second best to Tom Brady because Tom has more rings. Fact of the matter, Levi is shooting Elite.......quote me........WILL with Elite. 

As far as tuning. I don't ever paper tune a bow. Matter of fact, I shot a Hoyt Pro Comp Elite way and I mean way out of time for a month and shot the highest scores my area has seen since 14s were taken out. High 30 and low 40...UPs. Of course, they call me a spot shooter because I shoot scores like that. Crap I shot 20 up in one round at an ASA this year. Tuning is important but you can win with out being in tune. Do a little research and you'll find there was a very very successful pro who won a lot with...an untuned bow. I'd tell you his name but I want you to research. 

To be honest, could the switch be to over come boredom or desire to leave because of success. Anderson Silva has beat almost every one in MMA. They are trying to do all kind of things to keep him fighting. To challenge him. What if Levi shoots 6 more years and wins 5 or 6 SOY award? What then????? Does he keep shooting AND winning or quit? No body but he and God know trully why he is switching. Maybe having to relearn a new bow setup is what he wants to do. TO CHaLLENgE himself. Just my opinion


----------



## Rod Savini

hoytshooter35 said:


> I would be willing to bet, if in fact he switched which i am 98% sure he is, Levi has already put more than 10,000 shots on his Elite. I guarantee you he has had an elite in his house a month before tournament season ended. For crying out loud he shot his right hand bow left handed...in a shoot down. And was less than have an inch from a 12 on a 37 yard target. How uncomfortable that must have FELT!! He can shoot and win with anything he has confidence in. If he wasn't confident in Elite, he wouldn't go to Elite. If he doesn't quit competition shooting, he'll break every major 3-D record there is. Including Shooter of the year. He is the best 3D shooter ever but people won't see that until he has all or Most of records. Peyton Manning has played quarterback position better than anyone ever has in history but by many is considered second best to Tom Brady because Tom has more rings. Fact of the matter, Levi is shooting Elite.......quote me........WILL with Elite.
> 
> As far as tuning. I don't ever paper tune a bow. Matter of fact, I shot a Hoyt Pro Comp Elite way and I mean way out of time for a month and shot the highest scores my area has seen since 14s were taken out. High 30 and low 40...UPs. Of course, they call me a spot shooter because I shoot scores like that. Crap I shot 20 up in one round at an ASA this year. Tuning is important but you can win with out being in tune. Do a little research and you'll find there was a very very successful pro who won a lot with...an untuned bow. I'd tell you his name but I want you to research.
> 
> To be honest, could the switch be to over come boredom or desire to leave because of success. Anderson Silva has beat almost every one in MMA. They are trying to do all kind of things to keep him fighting. To challenge him. What if Levi shoots 6 more years and wins 5 or 6 SOY award? What then????? Does he keep shooting AND winning or quit? No body but he and God know trully why he is switching. Maybe having to relearn a new bow setup is what he wants to do. TO CHaLLENgE himself. Just my opinion


Whoa, manning hasn't played the position better than Tom Brady. Brady has done more with less. Look it up, if you believe manning is the goat, get your head out of your @$$. He is a choker and can't carry a team. Tom can and does. Manning probably won't break Brady's TD record. 

Comparing Levi to manning is like gold to crap. Levi is gold, manning is crap. 

Sorry but for all that are gonna flame me, actually watch football, don't go off media ball wash and how he pats his stats. Brady owns the QB, and if he wins the SB with his team, he will be have the GOAT status. Much like Levi will have soon.


----------



## pbuck

Rod Savini said:


> Whoa, manning hasn't played the position better than Tom Brady. Brady has done more with less. Look it up, if you believe manning is the goat, get your head out of your @$$. He is a choker and can't carry a team. Tom can and does. Manning probably won't break Brady's TD record.
> 
> Comparing Levi to manning is like gold to crap. Levi is gold, manning is crap.
> 
> Sorry but for all that are gonna flame me, actually watch football, don't go off media ball wash and how he pats his stats. Brady owns the QB, and if he wins the SB with his team, he will be have the GOAT status. Much like Levi will have soon.


Whoa!! Going a little Patriot fanboy on us there bud! Lol!!!!


----------



## Bonecutterx

Brady and pats thumb down




Rod Savini said:


> Whoa, manning hasn't played the position better than Tom Brady. Brady has done more with less. Look it up, if you believe manning is the goat, get your head out of your @$$. He is a choker and can't carry a team. Tom can and does. Manning probably won't break Brady's TD record.
> 
> Comparing Levi to manning is like gold to crap. Levi is gold, manning is crap.
> 
> Sorry but for all that are gonna flame me, actually watch football, don't go off media ball wash and how he pats his stats. Brady owns the QB, and if he wins the SB with his team, he will be have the GOAT status. Much like Levi will have soon.


----------



## ATLurker

Bonecutterx said:


> Brady and pats thumb down


Yep. 

Likening Levi to Brady would imply that Levi is a cheater, just like the Patriots.

I highly doubt Mr. Morgan's success is due to cheating.


----------



## Absolute Archer

hoytshooter35 said:


> I would be willing to bet, if in fact he switched which i am 98% sure he is, Levi has already put more than 10,000 shots on his Elite. I guarantee you he has had an elite in his house a month before tournament season ended. For crying out loud he shot his right hand bow left handed...in a shoot down. And was less than have an inch from a 12 on a 37 yard target. How uncomfortable that must have FELT!! He can shoot and win with anything he has confidence in. If he wasn't confident in Elite, he wouldn't go to Elite. If he doesn't quit competition shooting, he'll break every major 3-D record there is. Including Shooter of the year. He is the best 3D shooter ever but people won't see that until he has all or Most of records. Peyton Manning has played quarterback position better than anyone ever has in history but by many is considered second best to Tom Brady because Tom has more rings. Fact of the matter, Levi is shooting Elite.......quote me........WILL with Elite.
> 
> As far as tuning. I don't ever paper tune a bow. Matter of fact, I shot a Hoyt Pro Comp Elite way and I mean way out of time for a month and shot the highest scores my area has seen since 14s were taken out. High 30 and low 40...UPs. Of course, they call me a spot shooter because I shoot scores like that. Crap I shot 20 up in one round at an ASA this year. Tuning is important but you can win with out being in tune. Do a little research and you'll find there was a very very successful pro who won a lot with...an untuned bow. I'd tell you his name but I want you to research.
> 
> To be honest, could the switch be to over come boredom or desire to leave because of success. Anderson Silva has beat almost every one in MMA. They are trying to do all kind of things to keep him fighting. To challenge him. What if Levi shoots 6 more years and wins 5 or 6 SOY award? What then????? Does he keep shooting AND winning or quit? No body but he and God know trully why he is switching. Maybe having to relearn a new bow setup is what he wants to do. TO CHaLLENgE himself. Just my opinion


Your getting timing and tuning confused. And yes Reo shoots all his bows out of time. And so does many others.Tuning a bow to the shooter sometimes requires this.


----------



## bow shooter

I think it would be good for the sport if Levi does leave Mathews . They pretty much own 3D archery so maybe a bit more competition coming from the other company's will make it more interesting no one likes to compete against a stacked team every weekend. With pse making some moves along with elite and I wish hoyt would up there 3d game and Mathews still has some shooters that can win any weekend and I hear they signed a young man that might just be the next big deal . I say let the games begin.


----------



## naturemade

Manning had the most talent on his teams for a long time and went out in the first round of the playoffs seven out of eleven years. I would not compare a winner like Levi to a media golden boy like Manning.


----------



## lavazhole

Will he post at 12:01???

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## 3-D Junkie

I doubt it. He actually may have better things to do.


----------



## Rod Savini

naturemade said:


> Manning had the most talent on his teams for a long time and went out in the first round of the playoffs seven out of eleven years. I would not compare a winner like Levi to a media golden boy like Manning.


Exactly!!!


----------



## hoytshooter35

Brady had arguably one of the most under rated offensive weapons on his side. Adam Vinatieri!!! AV kicked 18 game winning fields in those Super Bowl series including two game winners in two Super Bowls. Brady also had randy moss for TD record. RM had almost half of Toms TD passes. 23 out of 50. Toms a great quarterback. People always credit the quarterback for every Super Bowl win. I guess the other 52 players do nothing. And telling me to watch football. I watch football 7 days a week. If live games ain't on, I watch classic games. There is no bigger football fan than me. I can promise you that. Oh and not to mention Brady has had some of the best O-line ever. But hey, Brady's clutch factor ain't on this year. 2 late game interceptions to cost them the game. Manning will probably have another ring this year. And I ain't even a broncos fan


----------



## Rod Savini

ATLurker said:


> Yep.
> 
> Likening Levi to Brady would imply that Levi is a cheater, just like the Patriots.
> 
> I highly doubt Mr. Morgan's success is due to cheating.


Waiting for this ignorant and False comment. Pats had NO tape of the panthers or eagles because they didn't play them. The pats also had their 2001 Super Bowl practice taped by someone in a hotel. Yeah, that's right, someone tapes the PATs. And guess what, it was legal to tape signals until 2007. Every coach did it (jimmy Johnson said so). You guys are laughable. Praise manning the choker and put Tom Brady, that is on his way to another deep playoffs run with no name receivers.


----------



## Rod Savini

pbuck said:


> Whoa!! Going a little Patriot fanboy on us there bud! Lol!!!!


Hey, gotta back my boys. I live in Denver fan country, so Iove smacking these guys around about how bad manning is.


----------



## Ky*Bowhunter

Manning the choker? The all time leader of 4th quarter comebacks?


----------



## pbuck

Rod Savini said:


> Hey, gotta back my boys. I live in Denver fan country, so Iove smacking these guys around about how bad manning is.


Excellent thread derail too. It needed it.


----------



## hjort jagare

FootballTalk grown men fighting over other men.


----------



## Rod Savini

Ky*Bowhunter said:


> Manning the choker? The all time leader of 4th quarter comebacks?


Does 7 1& dones in the playoffs ring a bell. Brady only has 7 playoff losses.


----------



## Rod Savini

pbuck said:


> Excellent thread derail too. It needed it.


Glad to help!!!


----------



## Outback Man

Hey has anyone heard the rumor about Levi leaving Mathews yet???


----------



## dhom

Is Tom Brady still in the NFL?


----------



## fast706

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2117014

This could be Levis new bow? Come and get it///..


----------



## zachbb42

Peyton manning Accolades: 12 Pro Bowls, 6 1st team all pro selections, 4 NFL MVPs, 3rd in career passing yards, 2nd in career TDs, 4th in career passer rating.

Sounds like garbage???


----------



## zachbb42

Also all time stats smoke Brady including 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives. Doesn't sound much like a choke artist but I'm sure you would have ice in your veins if you were an nfl quarterback. Peyton manning trash that's a first


----------



## Outback Man

OMG OMG OMG 12 minutes until 11/1...


----------



## Irish66

Enough of the football crap !


----------



## reaper159

What it is????

Fill us in Leviticus. 

Are you Elite proud?


----------



## outbackarcher

Bow junky is going make the announcements.


----------



## juspassinthru

While we awaiting announcements......Ill take Drew Brees over Manning or Brady any day! Who Dat?!?!?!?


----------



## primal-bow

well did he go to elite?


----------



## Kahkon

deafcon2 said:


> Elite may not be in the big 4 as far as sales but I think they rank # 1 as far as the most talked about bow company. On and off AT.


Maybe on AT, but off, I had to practically give Elite Bows away to move them off the shelf. They look pretty but I couldn't sell them. Hopefully if Levi goes to Elite, it will help their brand recognition outside of AT.


----------



## primal-bow

Kahkon said:


> Maybe on AT, but off, I had to practically give Elite Bows away to move them off the shelf. They look pretty but I couldn't sell them. Hopefully if Levi goes to Elite, it will help their brand recognition outside of AT.


hey buddy if you had to give them a way (elite bows) i'll take them all..lol


----------



## Kahkon

kgtech said:


> hey buddy if you had to give them a way (elite bows) i'll take them all..lol


I don't stock them anymore...Special order only. I have zero people in the last year come in and say "I want an elite bow". I have elite literature and logo's everywhere too. I tired to order a 2013 Hunter in for my self last year to try and drum up some business for them BUT, I was told it would take 3 to 4 months to get one in. Hence, I decided to bring Mathews in the shop. Best move I have made since I brought Bowtech in.

Anyway, I really do hope Elite can get some Brand recognition from Levi, if he goes to them. Levi can't fix everything, Elite needs to get production under control too. Hopefully the pains from G5 not making their bows anymore are a thing of the past.


----------



## -bowfreak-

Kahkon said:


> I don't stock them anymore...Special order only. I have zero people in the last year come in and say "I want an elite bow". I have elite literature and logo's everywhere too. I tired to order a 2013 Hunter in for my self last year to try and drum up some business for them BUT, I was told it would take 3 to 4 months to get one in. Hence, I decided to bring Mathews in the shop. Best move I have made since I brought Bowtech in.
> 
> Anyway, I really do hope Elite can get some Brand recognition from Levi, if he goes to them. Levi can't fix everything, Elite needs to get production under control too. Hopefully the pains from G5 not making their bows anymore are a thing of the past.


People are going to get all bent over your post but it is true. This is the same thing that can be said for any of the small manufacturers. It is hard for pro shops to move them because of name recognition regardless of how good their bows are.


----------



## Viper69

Kahkon said:


> I don't stock them anymore...Special order only. I have zero people in the last year come in and say "I want an elite bow". I have elite literature and logo's everywhere too. I tired to order a 2013 Hunter in for my self last year to try and drum up some business for them BUT, I was told it would take 3 to 4 months to get one in. Hence, I decided to bring Mathews in the shop. Best move I have made since I brought Bowtech in.
> 
> Anyway, I really do hope Elite can get some Brand recognition from Levi, if he goes to them. Levi can't fix everything, Elite needs to get production under control too. Hopefully the pains from G5 not making their bows anymore are a thing of the past.


Exactly what we do as well. No stock just special order.


----------



## Irish66

Kahkon said:


> I don't stock them anymore...Special order only. I have zero people in the last year come in and say "I want an elite bow". I have elite literature and logo's everywhere too. I tired to order a 2013 Hunter in for my self last year to try and drum up some business for them BUT, I was told it would take 3 to 4 months to get one in. Hence, I decided to bring Mathews in the shop. Best move I have made since I brought Bowtech in.
> 
> Anyway, I really do hope Elite can get some Brand recognition from Levi, if he goes to them. Levi can't fix everything, Elite needs to get production under control too. Hopefully the pains from G5 not making their bows anymore are a thing of the past.


Retailers will sell what they want to sell....... If you believe in a product you will sell it.


----------



## Crow Terminator

Kahkon said:


> I don't stock them anymore...Special order only.


That seems to be getting pretty common place for a lot of shops that carry or carried Elite bows. The shop mentioned above by another member from Maryville, TN...I went in there with my brother inlaw when he was bow shopping. He wanted to go to a "one stop shop" that carried a bunch of brands, so that he could shoot several under one room. They had a crapload of PSE and Hoyt bows, a whole wall full of them to be exact...one of every model of the hunting bows, and a few of the target models as well. But for the Elite bows...they had two: the Hunter and Answer. My brother inlaw really liked the Hunter but they didn't have their module kit for it yet to make it fit him right, but they said they could only order a bow for him if he wanted it...and if you wanted to shoot any of the other models, you had to order it without ever holding or shooting one. I don't know about you...but if I'm out bow shopping and wanting to shoot a lot of bows before I buy one...and gonna buy one that day, I'm probably not gonna order something without shooting it first. In the case of that particular store...I think that's what hurt them a little on sales. They only had a limited offering compared to the whole kitten cabootle of the bigger brands they carried.

In my view...when it comes to bows, I'm not gonna buy another one without shooting it first. I'm through playing that game. This is gonna really limit what I have available to shoot in this area. I really want to try out the Energy 35 but all the local shops are the same as above...not carrying any in the store, but can order one if you're buying. There is a dealer in middle TN that I'm on the verge of driving the 2 hrs each way to visit just to shoot it....but at the same time, that seems a bit crazy to drive that far just to test drive a bow that I may not even like at all. So it's looking like if I buy a new bow this coming yr....it's gonna be a Prime bow. Just because that's the only one I've really liked other than the Elite and Strother bows.


----------



## tack09

Check it out. The video is up on the Elite site. It is official.


----------



## Buckeye74

From Elite forum ...
http://www.elitearchery.com/forums/...rin-Christenberry-to-Shoot-Elite-Archery-Bows


----------



## Wulfwick




----------



## slickhedshooter

Here's the video.

http://vimeo.com/77996614


----------



## Carroll in MO

Outback Man said:


> Hey has anyone heard the rumor about Levi leaving Mathews yet???


Is this some thing new or what, I am on here every day and never saw anything about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL


----------



## ghostgoblin22

slickhedshooter said:


> Here's the video.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/77996614


sick video


----------



## lavazhole

Damn...go elite!


----------



## Whaack

Buckeye74 said:


> From Elite forum ...
> http://www.elitearchery.com/forums/...rin-Christenberry-to-Shoot-Elite-Archery-Bows



*BOOM!! Sup now haters?*


----------



## rocket80

Its cool they got Pollard and Garrett too


----------



## sagecreek

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## Whaack

That video is top notch. Well made and straight up Elite quality. Good for them!


----------



## sagecreek

Whaack said:


> *BOOM!! Sup now haters?*


Word. lain:


----------



## Whaack

Kahkon said:


> Maybe on AT, but off, I had to practically give Elite Bows away to move them off the shelf. They look pretty but I couldn't sell them. Hopefully if Levi goes to Elite, it will help their brand recognition outside of AT.





Kahkon said:


> I don't stock them anymore...Special order only. I have zero people in the last year come in and say "I want an elite bow". I have elite literature and logo's everywhere too. I tired to order a 2013 Hunter in for my self last year to try and drum up some business for them BUT, I was told it would take 3 to 4 months to get one in. Hence, I decided to bring Mathews in the shop. Best move I have made since I brought Bowtech in.
> 
> Anyway, I really do hope Elite can get some Brand recognition from Levi, if he goes to them. Levi can't fix everything, Elite needs to get production under control too. Hopefully the pains from G5 not making their bows anymore are a thing of the past.





Viper69 said:


> Exactly what we do as well. No stock just special order.



This is a combination of things that explain this. One is the geography you are in and two is if the shop promotes Elite. The local shop that I go to asked me for recommendations on a new line to carry. They are a Hoyt, PSE, and BT shop. They used to carry Ross and Martin too. I told the Archery Shop Pro to call Elite and have them bring some bows in. This was two years ago. Now they are one of Elite's top shops and sell a ton of Elite. Why?? Cause the shop guys don't just say "here look at these Mathews".


----------



## Beastmaster

Brad HT said:


> Beastmaster...
> this question is based out of my ignorance of how cam systems work... so I apologize, but why is it much harder to get a limb stop cam to tune rather than a cable stopped one....?
> 
> B~


Sorry for the delay...I just got released from the hospital yesterday afternoon and I had a ton of stuff to go do in prep for my stem cell transplant in roughly 2 weeks.

A slaved cam system is timed to each other. To adapt the bow to the archer, there are times where you need to make things slightly out of time and out of tune.

It's a bit harder to tune a slaved cam bow for competition.


----------



## Jaliv92

Whaack said:


> This is a combination of things that explain this. One is the geography you are in and two is if the shop promotes Elite. The local shop that I go to asked me for recommendations on a new line to carry. They are a Hoyt, PSE, and BT shop. They used to carry Ross and Martin too. I told the Archery Shop Pro to call Elite and have them bring some bows in. This was two years ago. Now they are one of Elite's top shops and sell a ton of Elite. Why?? Cause the shop guys don't just say "here look at these Mathews".


This in on spot..
My home town dealer started selling Elite and actually tried to sell them not just hung them up behind the hoyt and mathews and this year they sold more Elites than mathews.


----------



## Brad HT

Beastmaster said:


> Sorry for the delay...I just got released from the hospital yesterday afternoon and I had a ton of stuff to go do in prep for my stem cell transplant in roughly 2 weeks.
> 
> A slaved cam system is timed to each other. To adapt the bow to the archer, there are times where you need to make things slightly out of time and out of tune.
> 
> It's a bit harder to tune a slaved cam bow for competition.


Sorry... didnt know you were going through some medical issues. Ill certainly pray for you and your family...

I appreciate the information... I think I still need to start reading up more on how the different cam systems work... they have always been a mystery to me.

Thanks...!
B~


----------



## Beastmaster

Irish66 said:


> Thank you for all the info... so are you saying that Elite(2nd tier) makes bows that are inferior because they don't make their own limbs,designs ect?


It's not inferior per se. It's the fact that a top tier bow company will roll their own from cradle to grave.

Using the Tour as an example, we know that the design isn't one fully created in house. Nor does Elite cut their own limbs.


----------



## Brad HT

Elite is now the Miami Heat of Archery... 

Good for them though....! Very professional way to handle the transition...

B~:darkbeer:


----------



## Inc.

Crow sadmiches ,any one ?


----------



## Beastmaster

AthensArchery said:


> Athens has a ton of respect for Dave but we do not use his riser design.
> If I remember correctly you shot that Exceed pretty well :thumb:


Yes, I did! The biggest success for shooting the Exceed was the grip on the riser. It's feel (there we go again in the feel) matched dead on with what other target bows had. It's one of the reasons why I still own it.

The other success (to me) is the lack of a mod system. I've still got mine tuned (out of tune slightly for most people) for Easton Fatboy 340s and it's still a rock solid shooter. But, that because I have mine tuned to how I shoot.


----------



## nwmulie

Did you guys hear? Levi is going to Elite!


----------



## Supermag1

Bonecutterx said:


> That 98% dealers fault. You are too busy meeting your "goals" with Mathews.
> Ive seen Elites sell very well in shops that did not have the big 3.
> 
> You can point the finger right back at yourself


So as long as you don't give people any options, they will buy an Elite?


----------



## Carroll in MO

nwmulie said:


> Did you guys hear? Levi is going to Elite!


Where did you hear a thing like that?


----------



## smurphy

Levi could use a 1987 bear whitetail 2 and still win with it. Elite makes a great bow but its the guy behind it that's counts.


----------



## 67raiders

Levi morgan shooting the elite yet


----------



## Yichi

slickhedshooter said:


> Here's the video.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/77996614


I wonder who did the video. It was really well done.


----------



## ridgehunter70

Im glad its all said and done now so you guys can start another 34pg thread on something else.


----------



## thencprince1515

Irish66 said:


> Enough of the football crap !


You can always tell a man by of he's a football fan or not. Guess not for you.


----------



## OCHO505

Looks like he is not shooting B-Stinger either who is he shooting on the stab side?


----------



## tomah

Yichi said:


> I wonder who did the video. It was really well done.


probably levi's brother. that dude makes some pretty sweet vids


----------



## ThunderEagle

OCHO505 said:


> Looks like he is not shooting B-Stiner either who is he shooting on the stab side?


Dunno, but I posted in another thread that his rest looks like a QAD HDx and not an AAE.


----------



## 48archer

Someone should call Mathews and let them know, his picture is still in the pro staff section.


----------



## Irish66

thencprince1515 said:


> You can always tell a man by of he's a football fan or not. Guess not for you.



I am Huge football fan.... College and Pro . but if you want to start a football thread then start a football thread and don't jack another thread.

SEAHAWKS


----------



## pointndog

Pretty sure they are b stingers and a qad.


----------



## thencprince1515

Irish66 said:


> I am Huge football fan.... College and Pro . but if you want to start a football thread then start a football thread and don't jack another thread.
> 
> SEAHAWKS


Go away.


----------



## maxxis88

ThunderEagle said:


> Dunno, but I posted in another thread that his rest looks like a QAD HDx and not an AAE.


Definitely a QAD, and I think those are b stinger sport hunter stabs on Levi's bow. Darrins has doinkers on it.


----------



## Irish66

thencprince1515 said:


> Go away.


lol Nice...


----------



## Radford Wooly

Taken from the Elite Forum.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


World Champion Archer to Shoot Elite Archery Bows


Levi Morgan Made the Switch 

Henrietta NY, November 12013: Elite Archery has signed a multi year contract with World Champion Archer and bowhunter, Levi Morgan. Effective November 1, 2013, Levi will shoot Elite Archery bows exclusively in competition and also on his television show Name the Game™ with Levi Morgan. 

“I love this sport. I love archery, I love the competition and I love bowhunting,” said Levi. “I love the whole idea behind the archery lifestyle and it has been my life. To work with a company that feels the same way and wants to grow and wants to be better is exactly what Elite Archery has offered me.” 

“We’ve always known that we have a shootable bow,” explains Elite Archery President, Pete Crawford. “We talk about Shootability. We talk about the draw cycle and how the way our bows hold against the solid stops is really important to hunting. And what we’ve found is that Shootability also equals accuracy. Not just when you are shooting paper or foam, but also in the woods. We’ve got a team of people that bowhunt as passionately as they shoot target archery. And to be honest, professional archers like Levi spend more time thinking about how a bow works, how it could be better, than we ever have a chance to do. That resource is invaluable on so many levels.”

Levi Morgan is a seven time ASA Shooter of the year, has won more than 40 National Champions and holds 10 World Championship titles. In July, 2012 he debuted his bowhunting television show, Name the Game™ with Levi Morgan on The Sportsman Channel to excited viewers who were ready to see another side of arguably one of the best archers ever to step up to the competition line. 

“I’ve never been this motivated,” commented Levi. “I’ve never been this excited about going out with my new Elite on tour and posting some scores because this bow shoots unreal. I’ve never held anything in my hands that I was so confident in, in such a short period of time.”

“Levi Morgan isn’t only one of the best competitive archers on the circuit today; he is also an accomplished bowhunter and a great ambassador for the Shootability message we’ve been telling our customers about for more than a year,” said Elite Archery Vice President, Garret Armstrong. “Levi helps us to bridge the gap between the Target Archery and Bowhunting communities because he understands how Shootability will not only help him in the field but also in competition. It speaks volumes about our products that the country’s top archers are making the switch to Elite.”

“Do what I did and try one,” Levi went on to say. “Just go shoot one and until you do that, you won’t understand it.” 

In addition to shooting Elite Archery bows, Levi will continue to use other equipment from The Outdoor Group brands including Scott Releases, Custom Bow Equipment, Duel Game Calls and Winner’s Choice Custom Bow Strings. 

ABOUT ELITE ARCHERY
Established in 2006, Elite Archery is a high-end compound bow company based in Henrietta, New York. Elite’s line of compound bows consist of two track binary cams with the efficiency that’s to be expected from a high-energy cam system, but with the smoothest draw cycle available. For more information, visit www.elitearchery.com, like us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/EliteArchery or follow us on twitter at www.twitter.com/Elite_Archery 


ABOUT THE OUTDOOR GROUP
Established in 2012 and based in Henrietta, New York, The Outdoor Group is parent company to the premier brands of Elite Archery, Perfect Form Manufacturing, Duel Game Calls, Scott Archery, Custom Bow Equipment, Winner’s Choice Custom Bowstrings and Solid Broadheads. 

Media questions can be directed to Maggie Armstrong at [email protected]


----------



## Alpha Burnt

Now, what about the whisker biscuit rumor? 











JOKING!


----------



## bowhuntermitch

maxxis88 said:


> Definitely a QAD, and I think those are b stinger sport hunter stabs on Levi's bow. Darrins has doinkers on it.


Yup.


----------



## Supermag1

ThunderEagle said:


> Dunno, but I posted in another thread that his rest looks like a QAD HDx and not an AAE.


I thought it was an AAE DOA at first but after reading yours and other comments I went back and looked and I'm pretty sure you're correct. I wonder if the AAE contract isn't over yet or QAD contract isn't in effect yet since he didn't make a comment about it when asked.


----------



## big cypress

can't believe anyone looked at this let alone replied . only levi i'm interested in is levi strauss .


----------



## slowen

1002 posts about this topic? WOW!


----------



## Alpha Burnt

big cypress said:


> can't believe anyone looked at this let alone replied . only levi i'm interested in is levi strauss .


Despite your love for denim, you were drawn in by the force and compelled to reply yourself! creepy...


----------



## big cypress

actually your wrong , i think , i wanted to be reply number 1000 and , incidentally did not read any of thread .


----------



## lavazhole

Man this ia fun! Elite is a great company and has really always treated me well when I had problems (bought a used pulse w a bent riser). Its fun to see a shakeup and get some new blood into things.

Im interested to see what they come up w now as the shooters give them input.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr.Wiggles

Elite is a great company,did Samatha make the switch also?


----------



## Huntin Hard

Mr.Wiggles said:


> Elite is a great company,did Samatha make the switch also?


Yes she made the switch as well


----------



## milesthehunta

Levi is a trader to Mathews. Also Mathews is one of the largest archery companies and most successful, bad decision Levi ):


----------



## Yichi

milesthehunta said:


> Levi is a trader to Mathews. Also Mathews is one of the largest archery companies and most successful, bad decision Levi ):


Seriously? ...


----------



## sagecreek

Of course he is a Mathews trader. He traded them in for a real bow, Elites.

Did you mean traitor?


----------



## nhns4

sagecreek said:


> Of course he is a Mathews trader. He traded them in for a real bow, Elites.
> 
> Did you mean traitor?


Gotta love the Mathews guys lol. Highly educated bunch.


----------



## Beentown

I don't like two track bows but Levi seems like a stand up guy. Wish him all the best.


----------



## field14

sagecreek said:


> Of course he is a Mathews trader. He traded them in for a real bow, Elites.
> 
> Did you mean traitor?


I'm trying to figure out what he meant also...

Trader? Yes, he is trading his services for the equipment and salary. What is wrong with that. He "was" a trader to Mathews while he was under contract to them, ha. Now he is a trader to Elite under his current "contracted salary."

Traitor? Hardly. He is doing what is best for him to continue to make his living. Once his contract was up and he knew it was up, he must have simply signed a better contract with Elite. He owed NOTHING to Mathews at that point.

Amazing how improper use of a word confuses everyone.

field14 (Tom D.)


----------



## Early Ice

1000 plus posts on this pointless thread... this is just sad.


----------



## tinbeater

Early Ice said:


> 1000 plus posts on this pointless thread... this is just sad.


And yet another one. ^^^^ Thanks


----------



## Bonecutterx

milesthehunta said:


> Levi is a trader to Mathews. Also Mathews is one of the largest archery companies and most successful, bad decision Levi ):


You should be busy at your local Mathews dealer ordering up your super awesome new Creed shorty. Mathews is a has been company.


----------



## pjcohen

The most important information is that Elite got Phil & Jack. A few months ago, we ask our local shop to pick up Elite because of their shootability , back wall, & price. When Levi and Darren came out with the video, our shop picked up Elite. Jack & I are still waiting for the call from Elite to do the video for senior archers. Thanks God bless, Phil


----------



## Mahly

milesthehunta said:


> Levi is a trader to Mathews. Also Mathews is one of the largest archery companies and most successful, bad decision Levi ):


OK, enough have bashed you for not knowing the difference between a trader and a traitor…

MY question: How do you know the it wasn't MATHEWS that wouldn't give him the contract he feels he deserves? Know that contracts aren't ALL about dollars and cents.

Sounds like he made a GOOD move to me….only HE knows what he wants from a contract….Mathews didn't give it to him…bad move Mathews.


----------



## Whaack

field14 said:


> I'm trying to figure out what he meant also...
> 
> Trader? Yes, he is trading his services for the equipment and salary. What is wrong with that. He "was" a trader to Mathews while he was under contract to them, ha. Now he is a trader to Elite under his current "contracted salary."
> 
> Traitor? Hardly. He is doing what is best for him to continue to make his living. Once his contract was up and he knew it was up, he must have simply signed a better contract with Elite. He owed NOTHING to Mathews at that point.
> 
> Amazing how improper use of a word confuses everyone.
> 
> field14 (Tom D.)


Well said Tom. I took Chads first E35 at Presley's. Wasn't out of the box 20 minutes. Best bow purchase I've made in a while.


----------



## rattlinman

thencprince1515 said:


> Go away.


Play nice Prince! only because your avatar is my new favorite to look at. Gravity defying. Is that shirt painted on do you think? LOL

back to topic, good luck to Levi and Samantha, I do hope the change works out great for them, they truly seem to be "good people".


----------



## Kstigall

Levi definitely has a bit more pressure this year. You know the Mathews fan boys will have their flame throwers set on 'instant crispy' with a twitchy trigger finger waiting for Levi to put up a less than record score. I can only imagine the noise if he has an equipment problem mid way through a tournament!!!

I might place a small wager (Large Oreo Blizzard) he'll do as well or better than last year...... BUT then again you never know when Jimmy Johnson might slip up. OOOPs, wrong sport but the same, Levi is "the man"! Now if he had gone with PSE most of the other Pro's would have simply quit. :becky:

Levi will be tougher than ever to beat but Goza, Ayersman, Christenberry, Chance B., McCarthy, Hopkins and quite a few others are perfectly capable of going on a run.


----------



## Panthers71

Levi may have more pressure on him, but i have no worry that he will shoot great.. i mean in the video he says hes never been more motivated and excited to shoot. Im excited to see how it goes. GO LEVI


----------



## 907_Hunter

Couldn't resist


----------



## nflook765

48archer said:


> Someone should call Mathews and let them know, his picture is still in the pro staff section.


They still have "Name the Game" as a sponsored show as well. Suppose that change will take effect next year (2014) when the 2013 hunting season actually airs on television.


----------



## nflook765

Panthers71 said:


> Levi may have more pressure on him, but i have no worry that he will shoot great.. i mean in the video he says hes never been more motivated and excited to shoot. Im excited to see how it goes. GO LEVI


I don't know if you follow golf or not, but have you ever heard of Rory McIlroy. When Rory switched from Titleist to Nike he put on the same song and dance for Nike that Levi is doing for Elite. Lets just say that Rory pretty much sucked after switching. I'm not saying that it is the equipment necessarily, but it does take some time to adjust and true confidence under pressure takes some time to build. We will see what happens when the pressure is on and Levi is on the line instead of in his own backyard.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

nflook765 said:


> I don't know if you follow golf or not, but have you ever heard of Rory McIlroy. When Rory switched from Titleist to Nike he put on the same song and dance for Nike that Levi is doing for Elite. Lets just say that Rory pretty much sucked after switching. I'm not saying that it is the equipment necessarily, but it does take some time to adjust and true confidence under pressure takes some time to build. We will see what happens when the pressure is on and Levi is on the line instead of in his own backyard.


I disAgree, I'm a die hard golf and rory fan. It's his short game that sucks not the equipment, his iron and driving stats are good, plus comparing golf and archery is not a good comparison, there are so many other elements in golf you must conquer than archery


----------



## Beentown

ghostgoblin22 said:


> I disAgree, I'm a die hard golf and rory fan. It's his short game that sucks not the equipment, his iron and driving stats are good, plus comparing golf and archery is not a good comparison, there are so many other elements in golf you must conquer than archery


What would those differing elements be? VERY similar in my thinking.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

Beentown said:


> What would those differing elements be? VERY similar in my thinking.


I've played golf for 26 years and have played semi pro tourneys, only comparison is aim small miss small


----------



## EK34

Surprise, He is all over Elites website. Good for him!!


----------



## nflook765

ghostgoblin22 said:


> I've played golf for 26 years and have played semi pro tourneys, only comparison is aim small miss small


I don't want to get into it to much but I am an avid golfer and archer. I do both for fun and compete in neither, but i would take on almost anyone on the golf course. 

Golf and archery, like most sports, have a ton in common. Consistency, repetition and confidence. In order to be successful you just be consistent. In order to be consistent the action must be repeatable. To be at the top of both sports, you just be confident. I am not at all saying it is the equipment. I am saying that it is just the mere fact that Levi (or anyone) changed products. I'm sure that Levi has had to change a few things in his form because of switchin to elite. Then there is the fact that the draw cycle, back wall, grip etc is different just based on the fact that it is a different bow. Levi has had years of experience behind the wheel of a Mathews. I'm sure he knew exactly what needed to be done an it was pretty much instinct because he shot a single bow so much. Switch to any other bow (just happens to be elite) and can his confidence really be 100% the same. Not to mention tht the form he has developed over years and years must change just a little. Can he really shoot as well with elite as he did with Mathews especially under the heat of competition when any and all flaws will show? Will he be at the top with elite? Yes. This year? I don't think so. He may end up shooting better with elite in the long run but I believe it will take a while for him to truly be as consistent and confident with elite as he was with Mathews.


----------



## dhom

Kstigall said:


> Levi definitely has a bit more pressure this year. You know the Mathews fan boys will have their flame throwers set on 'instant crispy' with a twitchy trigger finger waiting for Levi to put up a less than record score.


Are you kidding? Have you not noticed all the Elite threads all of a sudden asking for opinions on Elite and the guys posting "I just went to the dealer and shot an Elite and .....". It is all the Mathews guys jumping ship to shoot what Levi is shooting. I cannot believe the amount of buzz Elite is getting just because Levi is now shooting them.


----------



## sagecreek

A lot of you guys must have flunked your marketing 101 exam. lain:

:wink:


----------



## ThunderEagle

To be fair, I heard really nice things about the e35 before Nov. 1St. Local shop owner shoot one when his Elite rep came around. He said it was really nice and he is considering one himself.

I ain't going to lie, Levi choosing it makes me look at it more, but I'll more than likely sick to my Wrath for everything for the next year.


----------



## dhom

sagecreek said:


> A lot of you guys must have flunked your marketing 101 exam. lain:
> 
> :wink:


No, I understand the marketing. However, it always amazes me to watch people turned into sheep.


----------



## vhunter

dhom said:


> Are you kidding? Have you not noticed all the Elite threads all of a sudden asking for opinions on Elite and the guys posting "I just went to the dealer and shot an Elite and .....". It is all the Mathews guys jumping ship to shoot what Levi is shooting. I cannot believe the amount of buzz Elite is getting just because Levi is now shooting them.


That's a fact, jack. Great move by Elite.


----------



## dhom

vhunter said:


> That's a fact, jack. Great move by Elite.


It was a great move by Elite.


----------



## ontarget7

I would bet you will see lots of the Elites in the classifieds due to the grip. The guys buying that don't have more a natural low wrist grip will more than likely move on and be looking to sell them. Not bashing but have seen this a lot first hand from guys that have bought the Elites. I would bet the percentage of guys that keep shooting them have a naturally low wrist grip.


----------



## sagecreek

I shoot my Elites very well with a neutral to high wrist. I don't palm the grip. The Elite grip feels like an extension to my arm. I've been shooting them for many years and still have my GT-500 (5 years) I can't find anything that I like better.


----------



## ontarget7

sagecreek said:


> I shoot my Elites very well with a neutral to high wrist. I don't palm the grip. The Elite grip feels like an extension to my arm. I've been shooting them for many years and still have my GT-500 (5 years) I can't find anything that I like better.


You can get good results but it is harder to get the counterclockwise rotation you need with that grip on the Elites. 
Again, I am speaking from the most forgiveness possible. 
If you don't shoot with a counterclockwise rotation in the grip you will have way more cam lean at full draw.


----------



## sagecreek

All I know is that my Elites shoot lights out. They are easier to draw, smoother, and aim and hold better than anything I have ever shot. 

Lots of the upper 3D guys in my area feel the same way. I have seen lots of their scores go way up when they switched to the Elites and they are way more consistant because they don't seem to change tune at all.


----------



## ontarget7

sagecreek said:


> All I know is that my Elites shoot lights out. They are easier to draw, smoother, and aim and hold better than anything I have ever shot.
> 
> Lots of the upper 3D guys in my area feel the same way. I have seen lots of their scores go way up when they switched to the Elites and they are way more consistant because they don't seem to change tune at all.


When you find a bow that fits you, that is a great thing. As for staying in tune, all bows will do that with a good set of strings. I remember several years the strings were horrible on the Elites and took awhile for them to settle in.


----------



## Kstigall

I've known about Elites for some years. A guy by the name of Timmy Ewers has shot some "decent" scores with Elite over the years. Check out his BHFS scores over the years at NFAA Indoor Nationals, NFAA Outdoor Nationals and the Lancaster Archery Classic. 

:wink: If that yahoo can shoot "decent" scores then Elite bows should be outlawed from competition! :becky: Maybe Timmmmay is the real reason Levi is now shooting for Elite.............


----------



## ghostgoblin22

nflook765 said:


> I don't want to get into it to much but I am an avid golfer and archer. I do both for fun and compete in neither, but i would take on almost anyone on the golf course.
> 
> Golf and archery, like most sports, have a ton in common. Consistency, repetition and confidence. In order to be successful you just be consistent. In order to be consistent the action must be repeatable. To be at the top of both sports, you just be confident. I am not at all saying it is the equipment. I am saying that it is just the mere fact that Levi (or anyone) changed products. I'm sure that Levi has had to change a few things in his form because of switchin to elite. Then there is the fact that the draw cycle, back wall, grip etc is different just based on the fact that it is a different bow. Levi has had years of experience behind the wheel of a Mathews. I'm sure he knew exactly what needed to be done an it was pretty much instinct because he shot a single bow so much. Switch to any other bow (just happens to be elite) and can his confidence really be 100% the same. Not to mention tht the form he has developed over years and years must change just a little. Can he really shoot as well with elite as he did with Mathews especially under the heat of competition when any and all flaws will show? Will he be at the top with elite? Yes. This year? I don't think so. He may end up shooting better with elite in the long run but I believe it will take a while for him to truly be as consistent and confident with elite as he was with Mathews.


I disagree again they have nothing to do with each other, I've competed in both as well..that was a whole lot of nothing I'm sorry


----------



## nflook765

ghostgoblin22 said:


> I disagree again they have nothing to do with each other, I've competed in both as well..that was a whole lot of nothing I'm sorry


you sir, must be smoking the herb as your signature would indicate.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

nflook765 said:


> you sir, must be smoking the herb as your signature would indicate.


Yep and it's the best in the west, and of course that's what you would say, look archery and golf has some similarities but to day they are much a like is really ignorant, I've played golf all my life and it's the hardest sport in the world, one day I'll shoot a 67 the next ill shoot a 83...with archery you cannot shoot for months and go out in the field and stack arrows like pancakes if you practiced enough, I have respect for golf way too much and have played in over 150 events..-and to say archery and golf are alike is not true, you sir must be smoking crack


----------



## nflook765

ghostgoblin22 said:


> Yep and it's the best in the west, and of course that's what you would say, look archery and golf has some similarities but to day they are much a like is really ignorant, I've played golf all my life and it's the hardest sport in the world, one day I'll shoot a 67 the next ill shoot a 83...with archery you cannot shoot for months and go out in the field and stack arrows like pancakes if you practiced enough, I have respect for golf way too much and have played in over 150 events..-and to say archery and golf are alike is not true, you sir must be smoking crack


Haha. I was just trying to pull some explanation out of you to back up your opinion. To say simply, "You're an idiot" without explaining your reasoning means nothing. I can make statements all day long, but without explanation I am not getting my point across. I get where you are coming from now and agree to an extent. However, you somewhat negated your point when you said, "with archery you cannot shoot for months and go out in the field and stack arrows like pancakes *if you practiced enough*" proving that like golf, it does take practice to be repeatable. I am also speaking of both sports at the very highest level where the very slightest error could be the difference in winning and not making the cut. That is the beauty of archery and golf. The entire field is so close in performance that inches or centimeters can be the difference in first, second or even not making the cut.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

nflook765 said:


> Haha. I was just trying to pull some explanation out of you to back up your opinion. To say simply, "You're an idiot" without explaining your reasoning means nothing. I can make statements all day long, but without explanation I am not getting my point across. I get where you are coming from now and agree to an extent. However, you somewhat negated your point when you said, "with archery you cannot shoot for months and go out in the field and stack arrows like pancakes *if you practiced enough*" proving that like golf, it does take practice to be repeatable. I am also speaking of both sports at the very highest level where the very slightest error could be the difference in winning and not making the cut. That is the beauty of archery and golf. The entire field is so close in performance that inches or centimeters can be the difference in first, second or even not making the cut.


Like I said there are some similarities but when it comes to equipment between golf and archery is a different story


----------



## Bryan Thacker

I have owned a lot of bows from a number of manufacturers & I must say,I always end back up with an Elite...

After I bought my first Elite (Z28) I knew that this company was going to succeed! Every year Elite has tried to improve their product.....Doesn't matter if its Winners Choice replacing Ninja,or Cerekote finishing...

I believe that Elite is only going to get better!!!

With Petes love/knowledge of bowhunting,in addition to Darrin & Levis love/knowledge of target archery & inevitable influencences over Elite products should be very interesting... good for archery too!


----------



## sagecreek

... and with Darrin shooting a perfect round today with his Elite (inferior cam system ) ...


----------



## Bryan Thacker

My"inferior"cam has killed a lot of deer!!! LOL ;-)

Great Job Darrin...Pretty cool,he only lives 1/2 hour from here & shoots at a 3D course i shoot at least 5x a year.


----------



## Beastmaster

sagecreek said:


> ... and with Darrin shooting a perfect round today with his Elite (inferior cam system ) ...


As I've mentioned in another thread - Darrin has cleaned it with a perfect in the past while using other equipment.


----------



## highwaynorth

Absolute Archer said:


> I agree with some of that. It is advertising either way. But NO bow company has EVER made it to the top 5 without a good shooting staff.


Really, who shoots for Bowtech? I would call them a major top 5 player.


----------



## Outback Man

Beastmaster said:


> As I've mentioned in another thread - Darrin has cleaned it with a perfect in the past while using other equipment.


True...but it was clearly stated that now he's doing it w/an inferior platform...


----------



## rsw

Anyone who can't find great similarity between archery and golf, especially in a competitive environment, is not very proficient in one or the other. Personally, I find a very close relationship to these sports, particularly when the match gets tight. My experience comes from winning world championships in both and hitting the practice range for both nearly daily. As a result, each sport hinders the other - not enough time for both!


----------



## nhns4

Beastmaster said:


> As I've mentioned in another thread - Darrin has cleaned it with a perfect in the past while using other equipment.


Point being ??


----------



## Skeeter 58

highwaynorth said:


> Really, who shoots for Bowtech? I would call them a major top 5 player.


That's very true. It seems as if BowTech has relied more on Pro Staffers going to shoots, and they are doing very well without doubt. 

Elite is most definitely heading in the right direction with their marketing. A hunting show, Levi, T.V. and magazine advertizing, a woman's bow this year, and more exposure in most places. Now all they need to do is up their dealers. 

Elite bows will sell themselves IF they can get them out to the public to try. 

I truly expect Elite to be the top 5 or so within a few more years.


----------



## Bonecutterx

nhns4 said:


> Point being ??


What he means is the Elite is equal to any top bow on the market.


----------



## Bonecutterx

Beastmaster said:


> As I've mentioned in another thread - Darrin has cleaned it with a perfect in the past while using other equipment.


Its ok to say you were wrong about the cam system being inferior.


----------



## nhns4

Bonecutterx said:


> What he means is the Elite is equal to any top bow on the market.


Which anyone who has shot one will agree with. But since their sales do not reflect a big 3 CO they are looked down upon. Mostly by people who have not even tried the bows before.


----------



## Bonecutterx

nhns4 said:


> Which anyone who has shot one will agree with. But since their sales do not reflect a big 3 CO they are looked down upon. Mostly by people who have not even tried the bows before.


Give elite 3 more years and it will be hard to find comments about elite being inferior.


----------



## nhns4

Bonecutterx said:


> Give elite 3 more years and it will be hard to find comments about elite being inferior.


I noticed that the fearsome 4 group that always post on elite threads just to bash failed to hop on the 300 60x thread I made yesterday. And I know a few where online during that period. 
Guess they pick and choose the battles they want. LMAO


----------



## Beastmaster

Beastmaster said:


> As I've mentioned in another thread - Darrin has cleaned it with a perfect in the past while using other equipment.





nhns4 said:


> Point being ??


Let's go over the archery world from a 50,000 foot view.

Elite has a HUGE hill to climb. What Darrin's done at Presleys helps, but there has to be more of a track record in order to really and truly make it out there. Then, converts on a higher pro level has to occur in order to prove it's the cam system and technology that works for the archer. But, there are reasons why the cam system will actually hamper Elite over time.

Starting off - Archers are a cheap lot. Yes, I've said it - we're cheap. When I worked for a shop, I saw it all the time. I still see it all the time now that I'm coaching and writing about the Archery industry. Target archers are cut from the same cloth as well - if you can make it with a 900 dollar bow, why spend 1200-1400 dollars on one?

Even Pro archers have to pay for something. Bow companies don't give things away for free - there are catches, prats, and pitfalls in every contract. Even on the highest levels on the world circuit, you might be able to eek out one free bow, but everything else, you're going to have to pay for it in some way, shape, or form. The base level USA Archery USAT contracts don't even give away free bows - bows are sold at a discount, and the discount isn't stellar.

For journeyman level pro archers, the financial outlay can be even more daunting. We should be seeing a bunchaton of archers shooting stuff like a Tour, or a Bowtech Specialist, or an Athens Exceed, or other bows that don't have the huge costs from Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews. Yet, who do you see on the podium the most when compounds are in play? It's not a dual synced cam system bow.

Internationally, the financial burdens can be even more pressing. If a 900 dollar Tour can shoot as well as a 1400 dollar Pro Comp Elite or a 1200 dollar Dominator, why not use the Tour and then get other equipment (like X10's, Medallion XR's, or other high end arrows as an example) with the difference? Again, archers are a cheap bunch. Yet, even internationally, you see more Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE out there than any other brand. Heck, even the NORTH KOREAN NATIONAL ARCHERY TEAM uses the big 3. You would think that if a dual synced cam performs stellar on the world circuit, you'd see it out there all over the place...and on the podium. 

Yet, you don't. Here's why.

One - it just plain takes more time to tune up a dual sync cammed bow. More time on the bench = less time for the archers to shoot. We aren't talking minute of deer here - in the paper punching world, we're talking about a 4 centimeter ring that has to be hit consistently over and over again at 50 meters. In 3D, that 11 or 12 ring is even smaller and at similar distances. 

Coaches do not like bows that require a lot of bench time to play with. I want my archers to go out and shoot to perfect their form and to gain experience in a wide variety of shooting conditions. I don't want to be spending time tweaking a bow. I get paid to tweak archers. Tweaking the archer's equipment is a necessary evil that we want to minimize time spent on.

It's much easier for me and other tuners to tweak up a hybrid cammed bow. Sorry - it's the raw truth. Having shot dual synced cammed bows in competition (and winning with them when I was shooting for Athens), I know what it takes to tune a dual synced cammed bow to shoot at a high level, but it's not something I enjoy doing. Being blunt, it takes me about 10 minutes at worse to tune and tweak one of my student's PSE's, Mathews, or Hoyt's when I see something go slightly off, and most of that is walking over to the press and back. My Athens Exceed? It takes far longer.

Does that mean the dual synced cam is inferior? To the uninformed - yes. To those who know what they are doing, it's like anything else...you need the time and the knowledge. Unfortunately, the time spent on a dual synced cam bow is higher.

Two - tuning doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to different archers. Frankly, the bows you see shot at a high level are out of tune. A good tuner will tweak and adjust the bow specifically to the archer. But, the dual synced cam's nature is to keep things in a synchronized method so that tuning by a specialist isn't necessary...for most average archers. 

Even on a higher end youth level, tuners and coaches will tear down and tweak the shooter's bow, irrespective of cam system. But you don't see too many dual synced cammed bows in competition on the higher levels, even on the youth side of the world. 

This is where I'm extremely curious to see the tuning done by Darrin and Levi. Did Darrin and Levi make their bows go out of tune to fit them, or did they adjust their form to fit the cam system? One method would prove that the cam system works for a pro. The other shows that they are pros because they can handle whatever is thrown their way.

Three - Will I recommend a dual synced cam system to a target archer? Frankly, no. Supposed simplicity in the cam system does not equal tunability to the archer. And again, if the dual synced cam system was so great due to it's cost and price point, you'd be seeing it all over on podiums worldwide. You don't.

Four - what will it take for Elite to get there?

This is where the magic 8-ball comes out. First off, Elite has gotten off to a good start by hiring Levi and Darrin. You gain some level of respect from the hiring. 

Second - Elite has to differentiate itself in the market. Both in the hunting world and in the target world, Elite has to be different in some way, shape, or form, and excel at the same time. How are they going to do that? That's an unknown. Their designs and current cam offerings can be a help or a hinderance. 

Third - Elite has to win. It has to win on the 3D world. It has to win in the paper punching world. The "win on Sunday, buy on Monday" mentality for NASCAR still applies in other markets, archery included. 

This is the hardest part of the plan to pull off. And the most dangerous from a corporate marketing standpoint. Unfortunately, Elite hasn't hired enough pro archers to fulfill that successfully. They need to bring on board more archers with big names. And they need the technical expertise to pull it off.

Fourth - Explosive growth and a warranty does not make for a good combination. Elite has to be extremely careful about growing pains. Pushing their warranty isn't all that important either. Frankly - if I have to make use of a warranty, the company has failed in a realistic sense. Covering the bow because I was a dipwad is nice customer service, but warranty transfers to another owner is a marketing gimmick that will eventually cost a company money if they don't watch their quality control.

Fifth - Elite needs to show that they are king of the dual sync cammed bow market. How do you do that? Training. Just like PSE and Hoyt - they need to put on a school for bow techs. Teach the masses the tricks of tuning their bows. Will they? No. Should they? Yes. 

Sixth - Make it easy to modify the bows. With other major bow manufacturers, they all have bows and cam systems (even dual synced cams) that do not require the need for a press to change out draw lengths. You can't market to the masses if you have to have shop equipment to do changes to the bow. This is one of the main reasons why Elite is still a higher end "boutique" bow company. 

Finally - get them while they are young. PSE and Mathews have won over the higher end youth shooter market thanks to their offerings and who they have signed up recently. Hoyt is late to the game, and it's hurt them a bit. 

If Elite wants to win and gain recognition long term, they need to scout, identify, and work with up and coming youth shooters in the 3D and paper target markets. This also means they need to provide an upgrade path for archers where they hook them in, and keep them reeled in during their careers. 

This means they need to try and court younger up and coming archers like TJ Strychalski (PA), Seth Trahan (MA), Sachiko Keane (NY), Sam White (CO), Spencer Yee (AZ), and others. These are kids (13 and younger) that are competitive against High Schoolers (shooting adult distances...and winning). Elite needs to nurture and court kids this young. Elite's future is dependent on that. Get them the equipment that they need, get them the technical support they and their coaches need, and then help get them to the podium.

So, here are some practical discussion points and possible solutions. Let's see how the discussion denigrates from here.

-Steve


----------



## nhns4

Nice post. Main point I gather is people are lazy.


----------



## Bonecutterx

Its much easier to just say its the guy shooting the bow and not the bow itself.
Any well made bow is capable of shooting better than you can shoot it.
An untuned bow can still shoot a perfect game.



Beastmaster said:


> Let's go over the archery world from a 50,000 foot view.
> 
> Elite has a HUGE hill to climb. What Darrin's done at Presleys helps, but there has to be more of a track record in order to really and truly make it out there. Then, converts on a higher pro level has to occur in order to prove it's the cam system and technology that works for the archer. But, there are reasons why the cam system will actually hamper Elite over time.
> 
> Starting off - Archers are a cheap lot. Yes, I've said it - we're cheap. When I worked for a shop, I saw it all the time. I still see it all the time now that I'm coaching and writing about the Archery industry. Target archers are cut from the same cloth as well - if you can make it with a 900 dollar bow, why spend 1200-1400 dollars on one?
> 
> Even Pro archers have to pay for something. Bow companies don't give things away for free - there are catches, prats, and pitfalls in every contract. Even on the highest levels on the world circuit, you might be able to eek out one free bow, but everything else, you're going to have to pay for it in some way, shape, or form. The base level USA Archery USAT contracts don't even give away free bows - bows are sold at a discount, and the discount isn't stellar.
> 
> For journeyman level pro archers, the financial outlay can be even more daunting. We should be seeing a bunchaton of archers shooting stuff like a Tour, or a Bowtech Specialist, or an Athens Exceed, or other bows that don't have the huge costs from Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews. Yet, who do you see on the podium the most when compounds are in play? It's not a dual synced cam system bow.
> 
> Internationally, the financial burdens can be even more pressing. If a 900 dollar Tour can shoot as well as a 1400 dollar Pro Comp Elite or a 1200 dollar Dominator, why not use the Tour and then get other equipment (like X10's, Medallion XR's, or other high end arrows as an example) with the difference? Again, archers are a cheap bunch. Yet, even internationally, you see more Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE out there than any other brand. Heck, even the NORTH KOREAN NATIONAL ARCHERY TEAM uses the big 3. You would think that if a dual synced cam performs stellar on the world circuit, you'd see it out there all over the place...and on the podium.
> 
> Yet, you don't. Here's why.
> 
> One - it just plain takes more time to tune up a dual sync cammed bow. More time on the bench = less time for the archers to shoot. We aren't talking minute of deer here - in the paper punching world, we're talking about a 4 centimeter ring that has to be hit consistently over and over again at 50 meters. In 3D, that 11 or 12 ring is even smaller and at similar distances.
> 
> Coaches do not like bows that require a lot of bench time to play with. I want my archers to go out and shoot to perfect their form and to gain experience in a wide variety of shooting conditions. I don't want to be spending time tweaking a bow. I get paid to tweak archers. Tweaking the archer's equipment is a necessary evil that we want to minimize time spent on.
> 
> It's much easier for me and other tuners to tweak up a hybrid cammed bow. Sorry - it's the raw truth. Having shot dual synced cammed bows in competition (and winning with them when I was shooting for Athens), I know what it takes to tune a dual synced cammed bow to shoot at a high level, but it's not something I enjoy doing. Being blunt, it takes me about 10 minutes at worse to tune and tweak one of my student's PSE's, Mathews, or Hoyt's when I see something go slightly off, and most of that is walking over to the press and back. My Athens Exceed? It takes far longer.
> 
> Does that mean the dual synced cam is inferior? To the uninformed - yes. To those who know what they are doing, it's like anything else...you need the time and the knowledge. Unfortunately, the time spent on a dual synced cam bow is higher.
> 
> Two - tuning doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to different archers. Frankly, the bows you see shot at a high level are out of tune. A good tuner will tweak and adjust the bow specifically to the archer. But, the dual synced cam's nature is to keep things in a synchronized method so that tuning by a specialist isn't necessary...for most average archers.
> 
> Even on a higher end youth level, tuners and coaches will tear down and tweak the shooter's bow, irrespective of cam system. But you don't see too many dual synced cammed bows in competition on the higher levels, even on the youth side of the world.
> 
> This is where I'm extremely curious to see the tuning done by Darrin and Levi. Did Darrin and Levi make their bows go out of tune to fit them, or did they adjust their form to fit the cam system? One method would prove that the cam system works for a pro. The other shows that they are pros because they can handle whatever is thrown their way.
> 
> Three - Will I recommend a dual synced cam system to a target archer? Frankly, no. Supposed simplicity in the cam system does not equal tunability to the archer. And again, if the dual synced cam system was so great due to it's cost and price point, you'd be seeing it all over on podiums worldwide. You don't.
> 
> Four - what will it take for Elite to get there?
> 
> This is where the magic 8-ball comes out. First off, Elite has gotten off to a good start by hiring Levi and Darrin. You gain some level of respect from the hiring.
> 
> Second - Elite has to differentiate itself in the market. Both in the hunting world and in the target world, Elite has to be different in some way, shape, or form, and excel at the same time. How are they going to do that? That's an unknown. Their designs and current cam offerings can be a help or a hinderance.
> 
> Third - Elite has to win. It has to win on the 3D world. It has to win in the paper punching world. The "win on Sunday, buy on Monday" mentality for NASCAR still applies in other markets, archery included.
> 
> This is the hardest part of the plan to pull off. And the most dangerous from a corporate marketing standpoint. Unfortunately, Elite hasn't hired enough pro archers to fulfill that successfully. They need to bring on board more archers with big names. And they need the technical expertise to pull it off.
> 
> Fourth - Explosive growth and a warranty does not make for a good combination. Elite has to be extremely careful about growing pains. Pushing their warranty isn't all that important either. Frankly - if I have to make use of a warranty, the company has failed in a realistic sense. Covering the bow because I was a dipwad is nice customer service, but warranty transfers to another owner is a marketing gimmick that will eventually cost a company money if they don't watch their quality control.
> 
> Fifth - Elite needs to show that they are king of the dual sync cammed bow market. How do you do that? Training. Just like PSE and Hoyt - they need to put on a school for bow techs. Teach the masses the tricks of tuning their bows. Will they? No. Should they? Yes.
> 
> Sixth - Make it easy to modify the bows. With other major bow manufacturers, they all have bows and cam systems (even dual synced cams) that do not require the need for a press to change out draw lengths. You can't market to the masses if you have to have shop equipment to do changes to the bow. This is one of the main reasons why Elite is still a higher end "boutique" bow company.
> 
> Finally - get them while they are young. PSE and Mathews have won over the higher end youth shooter market thanks to their offerings and who they have signed up recently. Hoyt is late to the game, and it's hurt them a bit.
> 
> If Elite wants to win and gain recognition long term, they need to scout, identify, and work with up and coming youth shooters in the 3D and paper target markets. This also means they need to provide an upgrade path for archers where they hook them in, and keep them reeled in during their careers.
> 
> This means they need to try and court younger up and coming archers like TJ Strychalski (PA), Seth Trahan (MA), Sachiko Keane (NY), Sam White (CO), Spencer Yee (AZ), and others. These are kids (13 and younger) that are competitive against High Schoolers (shooting adult distances...and winning). Elite needs to nurture and court kids this young. Elite's future is dependent on that. Get them the equipment that they need, get them the technical support they and their coaches need, and then help get them to the podium.
> 
> So, here are some practical discussion points and possible solutions. Let's see how the discussion denigrates from here.
> 
> -Steve


----------



## Bonecutterx

Its easier to argue than admit you dont know what your talking about




nhns4 said:


> I noticed that the fearsome 4 group that always post on elite threads just to bash failed to hop on the 300 60x thread I made yesterday. And I know a few where online during that period.
> Guess they pick and choose the battles they want. LMAO


----------



## Beastmaster

Bonecutterx said:


> Its much easier to just say its the guy shooting the bow and not the bow itself.
> Any well made bow is capable of shooting better than you can shoot it.
> An untuned bow can still shoot a perfect game.


If that's the case, then why don't we see more dual synced cam bows on the podium with the shooter?

And, in a human nature question, is it better to tune the bow to the archer or force the archer to conform to the quirks of the bow?


----------



## Beastmaster

nhns4 said:


> Nice post. Main point I gather is people are lazy.


Lazy or wanting to spend time and money in areas better well spent?

Again, I'm throwing these questions out there to gauge the thought processes of others and for discussion points.


----------



## nhns4

Beastmaster said:


> Lazy or wanting to spend time and money in areas better well spent?
> 
> Again, I'm throwing these questions out there to gauge the thought processes of others and for discussion points.


Regardless we are not going to wake up tomorrow and see Elite as the top dog in sales. Anything takes time.


----------



## Bonecutterx

Mfg resistant to spend the money on top shooters.
Tim G won with Mathews and Hoyt and will win with PSE.
Has very little to do with equipment.




Beastmaster said:


> If that's the case, then why don't we see more dual synced cam bows on the podium with the shooter?
> 
> And, in a human nature question, is it better to tune the bow to the archer or force the archer to conform to the quirks of the bow?


----------



## standsitter

I am not sure if people are lazy, it comes down to if you put in the effort and work with the product does it give a better result?? time will tell. In all honesty what would you want to shoot, a bow fitted to you and the well established form that you already have or a bow that is synched and in tune to perfection but not fitted to you and you have to adjust your form to fit the bow. People can, have, and will be successful both ways. But when all is said and done the bow you want to shoot is the one that is easiest for you to shoot. Not many people can buy 3-7 bows to find the one that fits them best, so what do they do, look to the winners board and see what is winning, most will say "if its winning it must work, so and so shots brand X and wins, there must be something to it", winning breeds winning in everything. If Elites start winning they will certainly sell more, but as has been stated by others, can they sell more and not sacrifice the end quality?? the customer service?? the price?? nobody knows. In my case I was attracted to Elite because of the small company feel, the way every customer got a "semi-custom" bow and the fact the quality was very high and the price was lower than the other big manufacturers. Since the current ownership these things have all changed, anyone that has shot Elite's for a while and was around before the ownership change knows dang well what I am saying, the bows are still great, but that small company feel and all that went with it is gone for the most part.


----------



## Daniel Boone

One thing for sure it always good to have the top archers shooting your equipment!

Elite the small manufacture that has continued to grow each year. I think there good for over all archery community!

Peter Crawford listens and understand the business of hunting and target archery.
DB


----------



## ontarget7

Beastmaster said:


> Let's go over the archery world from a 50,000 foot view.
> 
> Elite has a HUGE hill to climb. What Darrin's done at Presleys helps, but there has to be more of a track record in order to really and truly make it out there. Then, converts on a higher pro level has to occur in order to prove it's the cam system and technology that works for the archer. But, there are reasons why the cam system will actually hamper Elite over time.
> 
> Starting off - Archers are a cheap lot. Yes, I've said it - we're cheap. When I worked for a shop, I saw it all the time. I still see it all the time now that I'm coaching and writing about the Archery industry. Target archers are cut from the same cloth as well - if you can make it with a 900 dollar bow, why spend 1200-1400 dollars on one?
> 
> Even Pro archers have to pay for something. Bow companies don't give things away for free - there are catches, prats, and pitfalls in every contract. Even on the highest levels on the world circuit, you might be able to eek out one free bow, but everything else, you're going to have to pay for it in some way, shape, or form. The base level USA Archery USAT contracts don't even give away free bows - bows are sold at a discount, and the discount isn't stellar.
> 
> For journeyman level pro archers, the financial outlay can be even more daunting. We should be seeing a bunchaton of archers shooting stuff like a Tour, or a Bowtech Specialist, or an Athens Exceed, or other bows that don't have the huge costs from Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews. Yet, who do you see on the podium the most when compounds are in play? It's not a dual synced cam system bow.
> 
> Internationally, the financial burdens can be even more pressing. If a 900 dollar Tour can shoot as well as a 1400 dollar Pro Comp Elite or a 1200 dollar Dominator, why not use the Tour and then get other equipment (like X10's, Medallion XR's, or other high end arrows as an example) with the difference? Again, archers are a cheap bunch. Yet, even internationally, you see more Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE out there than any other brand. Heck, even the NORTH KOREAN NATIONAL ARCHERY TEAM uses the big 3. You would think that if a dual synced cam performs stellar on the world circuit, you'd see it out there all over the place...and on the podium.
> 
> Yet, you don't. Here's why.
> 
> One - it just plain takes more time to tune up a dual sync cammed bow. More time on the bench = less time for the archers to shoot. We aren't talking minute of deer here - in the paper punching world, we're talking about a 4 centimeter ring that has to be hit consistently over and over again at 50 meters. In 3D, that 11 or 12 ring is even smaller and at similar distances.
> 
> Coaches do not like bows that require a lot of bench time to play with. I want my archers to go out and shoot to perfect their form and to gain experience in a wide variety of shooting conditions. I don't want to be spending time tweaking a bow. I get paid to tweak archers. Tweaking the archer's equipment is a necessary evil that we want to minimize time spent on.
> 
> It's much easier for me and other tuners to tweak up a hybrid cammed bow. Sorry - it's the raw truth. Having shot dual synced cammed bows in competition (and winning with them when I was shooting for Athens), I know what it takes to tune a dual synced cammed bow to shoot at a high level, but it's not something I enjoy doing. Being blunt, it takes me about 10 minutes at worse to tune and tweak one of my student's PSE's, Mathews, or Hoyt's when I see something go slightly off, and most of that is walking over to the press and back. My Athens Exceed? It takes far longer.
> 
> Does that mean the dual synced cam is inferior? To the uninformed - yes. To those who know what they are doing, it's like anything else...you need the time and the knowledge. Unfortunately, the time spent on a dual synced cam bow is higher.
> 
> Two - tuning doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to different archers. Frankly, the bows you see shot at a high level are out of tune. A good tuner will tweak and adjust the bow specifically to the archer. But, the dual synced cam's nature is to keep things in a synchronized method so that tuning by a specialist isn't necessary...for most average archers.
> 
> Even on a higher end youth level, tuners and coaches will tear down and tweak the shooter's bow, irrespective of cam system. But you don't see too many dual synced cammed bows in competition on the higher levels, even on the youth side of the world.
> 
> This is where I'm extremely curious to see the tuning done by Darrin and Levi. Did Darrin and Levi make their bows go out of tune to fit them, or did they adjust their form to fit the cam system? One method would prove that the cam system works for a pro. The other shows that they are pros because they can handle whatever is thrown their way.
> 
> Three - Will I recommend a dual synced cam system to a target archer? Frankly, no. Supposed simplicity in the cam system does not equal tunability to the archer. And again, if the dual synced cam system was so great due to it's cost and price point, you'd be seeing it all over on podiums worldwide. You don't.
> 
> Four - what will it take for Elite to get there?
> 
> This is where the magic 8-ball comes out. First off, Elite has gotten off to a good start by hiring Levi and Darrin. You gain some level of respect from the hiring.
> 
> Second - Elite has to differentiate itself in the market. Both in the hunting world and in the target world, Elite has to be different in some way, shape, or form, and excel at the same time. How are they going to do that? That's an unknown. Their designs and current cam offerings can be a help or a hinderance.
> 
> Third - Elite has to win. It has to win on the 3D world. It has to win in the paper punching world. The "win on Sunday, buy on Monday" mentality for NASCAR still applies in other markets, archery included.
> 
> This is the hardest part of the plan to pull off. And the most dangerous from a corporate marketing standpoint. Unfortunately, Elite hasn't hired enough pro archers to fulfill that successfully. They need to bring on board more archers with big names. And they need the technical expertise to pull it off.
> 
> Fourth - Explosive growth and a warranty does not make for a good combination. Elite has to be extremely careful about growing pains. Pushing their warranty isn't all that important either. Frankly - if I have to make use of a warranty, the company has failed in a realistic sense. Covering the bow because I was a dipwad is nice customer service, but warranty transfers to another owner is a marketing gimmick that will eventually cost a company money if they don't watch their quality control.
> 
> Fifth - Elite needs to show that they are king of the dual sync cammed bow market. How do you do that? Training. Just like PSE and Hoyt - they need to put on a school for bow techs. Teach the masses the tricks of tuning their bows. Will they? No. Should they? Yes.
> 
> Sixth - Make it easy to modify the bows. With other major bow manufacturers, they all have bows and cam systems (even dual synced cams) that do not require the need for a press to change out draw lengths. You can't market to the masses if you have to have shop equipment to do changes to the bow. This is one of the main reasons why Elite is still a higher end "boutique" bow company.
> 
> Finally - get them while they are young. PSE and Mathews have won over the higher end youth shooter market thanks to their offerings and who they have signed up recently. Hoyt is late to the game, and it's hurt them a bit.
> 
> If Elite wants to win and gain recognition long term, they need to scout, identify, and work with up and coming youth shooters in the 3D and paper target markets. This also means they need to provide an upgrade path for archers where they hook them in, and keep them reeled in during their careers.
> 
> This means they need to try and court younger up and coming archers like TJ Strychalski (PA), Seth Trahan (MA), Sachiko Keane (NY), Sam White (CO), Spencer Yee (AZ), and others. These are kids (13 and younger) that are competitive against High Schoolers (shooting adult distances...and winning). Elite needs to nurture and court kids this young. Elite's future is dependent on that. Get them the equipment that they need, get them the technical support they and their coaches need, and then help get them to the podium.
> 
> So, here are some practical discussion points and possible solutions. Let's see how the discussion denigrates from here.
> 
> -Steve


Hi Steve

Just wanted to say those are some very good points brought up and I would have to agree. I do feel we will see some coaching lean more to tweaking the shooter to accommodate a certain cam system in the future. It is widely none that in the past you tweak the bow to a shooter and I once agreed with that theory. However after further testing of this through a whole lot of tuning it has been very apparent to me that certain cam systems do require certain characteristics in our grip. When we determine this and either match a cam system to a shooter or just the opposite, tweak the shooter to the cam system, I feel you will ultimately have the best results.


----------



## highwaynorth

Beastmaster said:


> If that's the case, then why don't we see more dual synced cam bows on the podium with the shooter?
> 
> And, in a human nature question, is it better to tune the bow to the archer or force the archer to conform to the quirks of the bow?


Wow, you really need somebody to explain this to you ? You don't see archers shooting those dual cam synced bows
on the podium because nobody pays them a pile of money to shoot them. It has nothing to do with the cam system.


----------



## BAArcher

This thread is too deep for me, lets just wait to see what happens in Florida when the ASA kicks off. If there is a good Elite showing, sales will reflect.


----------



## KimberTac1911

highwaynorth said:


> Wow, you really need somebody to explain this to you ? You don't see archers shooting those dual cam synced bows
> on the podium because nobody pays them a pile of money to shoot them. It has nothing to do with the cam system.


Man has a point. Money does talk, it shows with bowtech. If they offered money to shoot for or winning a contest; more would shoot them in tourneys.


----------



## jimb

highwaynorth said:


> Wow, you really need somebody to explain this to you ? You don't see archers shooting those dual cam synced bows
> on the podium because nobody pays them a pile of money to shoot them. It has nothing to do with the cam system.


single cam, true dual cam, hybrid the cam system makes no difference


----------



## Inc.

Beastmaster said:


> Lazy or wanting to spend time and money in areas better well spent?
> 
> Again, I'm throwing these questions out there to gauge the thought processes of others and for discussion points.


Great point made.


----------



## N7709K

@Steve, I wanna see the bounceback time when they do have issues on the line with their duals over the singles they were running- I know pegging a Mathews is super simple... Especially internationally- braden and martins match comes to mind.

The better representation of how the product works is the score change in the middle of the pack pro's that change; not the winning guys but the ones putting up respectable scores just not winning scores.


----------



## Beastmaster

N7709K said:


> @Steve, I wanna see the bounceback time when they do have issues on the line with their duals over the singles they were running- I know pegging a Mathews is super simple... Especially internationally- braden and martins match comes to mind.
> 
> The better representation of how the product works is the score change in the middle of the pack pro's that change; not the winning guys but the ones putting up respectable scores just not winning scores.


That is a good point. And - Braden's match is a perfect example of what you're talking about.


----------



## Whaack

Beastmaster said:


> Let's go over the archery world from a 50,000 foot view.
> 
> Elite has a HUGE hill to climb. What Darrin's done at Presleys helps, but there has to be more of a track record in order to really and truly make it out there. Then, converts on a higher pro level has to occur in order to prove it's the cam system and technology that works for the archer. But, there are reasons why the cam system will actually hamper Elite over time.
> 
> Starting off - Archers are a cheap lot. Yes, I've said it - we're cheap. When I worked for a shop, I saw it all the time. I still see it all the time now that I'm coaching and writing about the Archery industry. Target archers are cut from the same cloth as well - if you can make it with a 900 dollar bow, why spend 1200-1400 dollars on one?
> 
> Even Pro archers have to pay for something. Bow companies don't give things away for free - there are catches, prats, and pitfalls in every contract. Even on the highest levels on the world circuit, you might be able to eek out one free bow, but everything else, you're going to have to pay for it in some way, shape, or form. The base level USA Archery USAT contracts don't even give away free bows - bows are sold at a discount, and the discount isn't stellar.
> 
> For journeyman level pro archers, the financial outlay can be even more daunting. We should be seeing a bunchaton of archers shooting stuff like a Tour, or a Bowtech Specialist, or an Athens Exceed, or other bows that don't have the huge costs from Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews. Yet, who do you see on the podium the most when compounds are in play? It's not a dual synced cam system bow.
> 
> Internationally, the financial burdens can be even more pressing. If a 900 dollar Tour can shoot as well as a 1400 dollar Pro Comp Elite or a 1200 dollar Dominator, why not use the Tour and then get other equipment (like X10's, Medallion XR's, or other high end arrows as an example) with the difference? Again, archers are a cheap bunch. Yet, even internationally, you see more Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE out there than any other brand. Heck, even the NORTH KOREAN NATIONAL ARCHERY TEAM uses the big 3. You would think that if a dual synced cam performs stellar on the world circuit, you'd see it out there all over the place...and on the podium.
> 
> Yet, you don't. Here's why.
> 
> One - it just plain takes more time to tune up a dual sync cammed bow. More time on the bench = less time for the archers to shoot. We aren't talking minute of deer here - in the paper punching world, we're talking about a 4 centimeter ring that has to be hit consistently over and over again at 50 meters. In 3D, that 11 or 12 ring is even smaller and at similar distances.
> 
> Coaches do not like bows that require a lot of bench time to play with. I want my archers to go out and shoot to perfect their form and to gain experience in a wide variety of shooting conditions. I don't want to be spending time tweaking a bow. I get paid to tweak archers. Tweaking the archer's equipment is a necessary evil that we want to minimize time spent on.
> 
> It's much easier for me and other tuners to tweak up a hybrid cammed bow. Sorry - it's the raw truth. Having shot dual synced cammed bows in competition (and winning with them when I was shooting for Athens), I know what it takes to tune a dual synced cammed bow to shoot at a high level, but it's not something I enjoy doing. Being blunt, it takes me about 10 minutes at worse to tune and tweak one of my student's PSE's, Mathews, or Hoyt's when I see something go slightly off, and most of that is walking over to the press and back. My Athens Exceed? It takes far longer.
> 
> Does that mean the dual synced cam is inferior? To the uninformed - yes. To those who know what they are doing, it's like anything else...you need the time and the knowledge. Unfortunately, the time spent on a dual synced cam bow is higher.
> 
> Two - tuning doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to different archers. Frankly, the bows you see shot at a high level are out of tune. A good tuner will tweak and adjust the bow specifically to the archer. But, the dual synced cam's nature is to keep things in a synchronized method so that tuning by a specialist isn't necessary...for most average archers.
> 
> Even on a higher end youth level, tuners and coaches will tear down and tweak the shooter's bow, irrespective of cam system. But you don't see too many dual synced cammed bows in competition on the higher levels, even on the youth side of the world.
> 
> This is where I'm extremely curious to see the tuning done by Darrin and Levi. Did Darrin and Levi make their bows go out of tune to fit them, or did they adjust their form to fit the cam system? One method would prove that the cam system works for a pro. The other shows that they are pros because they can handle whatever is thrown their way.
> 
> Three - Will I recommend a dual synced cam system to a target archer? Frankly, no. Supposed simplicity in the cam system does not equal tunability to the archer. And again, if the dual synced cam system was so great due to it's cost and price point, you'd be seeing it all over on podiums worldwide. You don't.
> 
> Four - what will it take for Elite to get there?
> 
> This is where the magic 8-ball comes out. First off, Elite has gotten off to a good start by hiring Levi and Darrin. You gain some level of respect from the hiring.
> 
> Second - Elite has to differentiate itself in the market. Both in the hunting world and in the target world, Elite has to be different in some way, shape, or form, and excel at the same time. How are they going to do that? That's an unknown. Their designs and current cam offerings can be a help or a hinderance.
> 
> Third - Elite has to win. It has to win on the 3D world. It has to win in the paper punching world. The "win on Sunday, buy on Monday" mentality for NASCAR still applies in other markets, archery included.
> 
> This is the hardest part of the plan to pull off. And the most dangerous from a corporate marketing standpoint. Unfortunately, Elite hasn't hired enough pro archers to fulfill that successfully. They need to bring on board more archers with big names. And they need the technical expertise to pull it off.
> 
> Fourth - Explosive growth and a warranty does not make for a good combination. Elite has to be extremely careful about growing pains. Pushing their warranty isn't all that important either. Frankly - if I have to make use of a warranty, the company has failed in a realistic sense. Covering the bow because I was a dipwad is nice customer service, but warranty transfers to another owner is a marketing gimmick that will eventually cost a company money if they don't watch their quality control.
> 
> Fifth - Elite needs to show that they are king of the dual sync cammed bow market. How do you do that? Training. Just like PSE and Hoyt - they need to put on a school for bow techs. Teach the masses the tricks of tuning their bows. Will they? No. Should they? Yes.
> 
> Sixth - Make it easy to modify the bows. With other major bow manufacturers, they all have bows and cam systems (even dual synced cams) that do not require the need for a press to change out draw lengths. You can't market to the masses if you have to have shop equipment to do changes to the bow. This is one of the main reasons why Elite is still a higher end "boutique" bow company.
> 
> Finally - get them while they are young. PSE and Mathews have won over the higher end youth shooter market thanks to their offerings and who they have signed up recently. Hoyt is late to the game, and it's hurt them a bit.
> 
> If Elite wants to win and gain recognition long term, they need to scout, identify, and work with up and coming youth shooters in the 3D and paper target markets. This also means they need to provide an upgrade path for archers where they hook them in, and keep them reeled in during their careers.
> 
> This means they need to try and court younger up and coming archers like TJ Strychalski (PA), Seth Trahan (MA), Sachiko Keane (NY), Sam White (CO), Spencer Yee (AZ), and others. These are kids (13 and younger) that are competitive against High Schoolers (shooting adult distances...and winning). Elite needs to nurture and court kids this young. Elite's future is dependent on that. Get them the equipment that they need, get them the technical support they and their coaches need, and then help get them to the podium.
> 
> So, here are some practical discussion points and possible solutions. Let's see how the discussion denigrates from here.
> 
> -Steve


And yet by Levi's own words he finds the Elite easier to tune. Did you want the video? 

Me thinks you and a handful of others just want to argue and belittle Elite cause it makes you feel good.


----------



## nhns4

Whaack said:


> And yet by Levi's own words he finds the Elite easier to tune. Did you want the video?
> 
> Me thinks you and a handful of others just want to argue and belittle Elite cause it makes you feel good.


Clearly if someone types as much as he did they have way to much time on their hands.


----------



## N7709K

It's a promotional elite video- of course he is gonna rave about it... Just saying. If you had the exposure and contacts that steve has you'd feel the same way he does


----------



## nhns4

N7709K said:


> It's a promotional elite video- of course he is gonna rave about it... Just saying. If you had the exposure and contacts that steve has you'd feel the same way he does


Levi is a good Christian man though. He would never lie.


----------



## pozoutdoors

I love how Elites hold on target. But, I would love to see them come out with hybrids or at least cable stops. For those who really pull hard into the stops!!! Limb stops take a lot of getting used to when shooting a hinge. Cant be quite as aggressive!!!


----------



## primal-bow

wow!!


----------



## swbuckmaster

Beastmaster
I can't argue against any of your points. Well thought out and well said.


----------



## Skeeter 58

The thing I'm gonna like most is when Levi and the others wins with a so called inferior cam design, with a higher let off, and limb stops, that many say is not capable of better accuracy. 

Yep, gonna like that one quite well.


----------



## Whaack

N7709K said:


> It's a promotional elite video- of course he is gonna rave about it... Just saying. If you had the exposure and contacts that steve has you'd feel the same way he does


Correct. But he could have said a lot of things in the video other than easy tuning.


----------



## highwaynorth

I remember all of the people saying the single cam was an inferior design that could never
shoot as accurate or as fast as the dual cams of the day. I guess that turned out to be hog wash also.


----------



## blakbelt

Whaack said:


> Correct. But he could have said a lot of things in the video other than easy tuning.


Don't fool yourself into thinking that the video was not entirely scripted. You don't drop big money on a big dollar spokesperson like Levi, then leave them to just go out there and say whatever they want. Everything is carefully calculated, especially right now. 

There is a perception that Elite has a system that is difficult to tune, apparently that is very important for Elite to try to reduce that criticism, so the first thing they will do is get their top spokesperson to dismiss this by saying it is the most tunable system he has ever shot.

Really smart marketing if you ask me, and I can tell by some of these comments that it is working.



nhns4 said:


> Levi is a good Christian man though. He would never lie.


First step, get someone with some real credibility, and apparently being a "christian" is good credibility in the Archery world, because of course, Christians never lie.



Whaack said:


> And yet by Levi's own words he finds the Elite easier to tune. Did you want the video?


Step two, get your completely honest, never lieing Christian spokesperson to say that his new Elite is easier to tune, and tada, instant credibility.


----------



## hjort jagare

Anti Elite spokesman guide line
Step 1 assume everything said positive about Elite is a bold face lie.
Step 2 repeat all the negative things said on every thread that has Elite in the thread.
Step 3 repeat often. Large paragraphs are better. Shows your smart.
step 4 In the Future explain how even if Elite is kicking butt its because the bow the Pro uses is special not junk like ours.
Step 5 grow up and go shoot a bow any brand I dont care.


----------



## hunt123

Whether or not something is "easy" to tune might depend on the skills of the tuner and how well he knows what he needs in order to shoot well. Same bow could be "easy" or impossible depending on who's tuning it. 

Levi didn't make an absolute statement: "This bow will tune easier than any other bow for anyone". He just made a comment about his own personal experience.


----------



## indyarcher

Darren shot 60x the first time out with his Elite, he usually shoots good but only shoots around 58 or 59x in a tournament, and usually around 681-682 for the tournament. He shot 685 at Presleys. That says something for the Elite.


----------



## THE PHENOM

hunt123 said:


> Whether or not something is "easy" to tune might depend on the skills of the tuner and how well he knows what he needs in order to shoot well. Same bow could be "easy" or impossible depending on who's tuning it.
> 
> Levi didn't make an absolute statement: "This bow will tune easier than any other bow for anyone". He just made a comment about his own personal experience.


If he didnt lie he sure did a good job getting paid to fib...How much time has he spent tuning other systems??????See he said what he was PAID to say...Not bashing Elite just saying don't hang on every paid word....:wink:


----------



## mtn3531

indyarcher said:


> Darren shot 60x the first time out with his Elite, he usually shoots good but only shoots around 58 or 59x in a tournament, and usually around 681-682 for the tournament. He shot 685 at Presleys. That says something for the Elite.


We'll wait to see after a few more tournaments, hard to quantify that on the results of one tourney. Need a bigger body of work to judge off of.


----------



## blakbelt

I have nothing against Elite or their bows. I like them. So, I am not in the Elite bashing crowd or an Anti Elite spokesperson. But, to think that Levi is just speaking off the cuff with no coaching on the specific things Elite wants him to say is naive.


----------



## THE PHENOM

blakbelt said:


> I have nothing against Elite or their bows. I like them. So, I am not in the Elite bashing crowd or an Anti Elite spokesperson. But, to think that Levi is just speaking off the cuff with no coaching on the specific things Elite wants him to say is naive.


Wish everyone had the common sense you do...Life on AT would be great...Good post...


----------



## Whaack

blakbelt said:


> I have nothing against Elite or their bows. I like them. So, I am not in the Elite bashing crowd or an Anti Elite spokesperson. But, to think that Levi is just speaking off the cuff with no coaching on the specific things Elite wants him to say is naive.



Just because someone says something while being paid doesn't make it untrue. In my job I could lie all day long and make more money, but then again I have morals and my credibility so it isn't worth it to me to jeopardize my credibility to make a couple extra bucks. I would venture to guess Levi is the same way.


----------



## hunt123

THE PHENOM said:


> If he didnt lie he sure did a good job getting paid to fib...How much time has he spent tuning other systems??????See he said what he was PAID to say...Not bashing Elite just saying don't hang on every paid word....:wink:


Now that I think more about it, how is tuning an Elite easier than tuning a single cam Apex?


----------



## SHPoet

Wow... Post #1100.

Unreal.


----------



## KimberTac1911

Isn't just adding shims make it easier to tune :darkbeer: all joking aside don't elite have more options tuning wise vs Mathews when it comes to cams and everything


----------



## blakbelt

Whaack said:


> Just because someone says something while being paid doesn't make it untrue. In my job I could lie all day long and make more money, but then again I have morals and my credibility so it isn't worth it to me to jeopardize my credibility to make a couple extra bucks. I would venture to guess Levi is the same way.


Oh come on now... it's just not that black and white. 

These guys are paid for their Opinion.

The only way to be TRULY objective is to not be paid or be under contract when speaking about a product. 

I can guarantee that Levi was long into Elite contract talks before he officially left Mathews, and probably generally jaded long before that. But, as a professional, he continued to support, promote, and advertise the Mathews products and brand as being the best there is, until his contract was over. I don't think this makes him dishonest, immoral, or a liar, it is just business and I accept it for what it is.


----------



## rattlinman

Beastmaster said:


> Let's go over the archery world from a 50,000 foot view.
> 
> Elite has a HUGE hill to climb. What Darrin's done at Presleys helps, but there has to be more of a track record in order to really and truly make it out there. Then, converts on a higher pro level has to occur in order to prove it's the cam system and technology that works for the archer. But, there are reasons why the cam system will actually hamper Elite over time.
> 
> Starting off - Archers are a cheap lot. Yes, I've said it - we're cheap. When I worked for a shop, I saw it all the time. I still see it all the time now that I'm coaching and writing about the Archery industry. Target archers are cut from the same cloth as well - if you can make it with a 900 dollar bow, why spend 1200-1400 dollars on one?
> 
> Even Pro archers have to pay for something. Bow companies don't give things away for free - there are catches, prats, and pitfalls in every contract. Even on the highest levels on the world circuit, you might be able to eek out one free bow, but everything else, you're going to have to pay for it in some way, shape, or form. The base level USA Archery USAT contracts don't even give away free bows - bows are sold at a discount, and the discount isn't stellar.
> 
> For journeyman level pro archers, the financial outlay can be even more daunting. We should be seeing a bunchaton of archers shooting stuff like a Tour, or a Bowtech Specialist, or an Athens Exceed, or other bows that don't have the huge costs from Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews. Yet, who do you see on the podium the most when compounds are in play? It's not a dual synced cam system bow.
> 
> Internationally, the financial burdens can be even more pressing. If a 900 dollar Tour can shoot as well as a 1400 dollar Pro Comp Elite or a 1200 dollar Dominator, why not use the Tour and then get other equipment (like X10's, Medallion XR's, or other high end arrows as an example) with the difference? Again, archers are a cheap bunch. Yet, even internationally, you see more Hoyt, Mathews, and PSE out there than any other brand. Heck, even the NORTH KOREAN NATIONAL ARCHERY TEAM uses the big 3. You would think that if a dual synced cam performs stellar on the world circuit, you'd see it out there all over the place...and on the podium.
> 
> Yet, you don't. Here's why.
> 
> One - it just plain takes more time to tune up a dual sync cammed bow. More time on the bench = less time for the archers to shoot. We aren't talking minute of deer here - in the paper punching world, we're talking about a 4 centimeter ring that has to be hit consistently over and over again at 50 meters. In 3D, that 11 or 12 ring is even smaller and at similar distances.
> 
> Coaches do not like bows that require a lot of bench time to play with. I want my archers to go out and shoot to perfect their form and to gain experience in a wide variety of shooting conditions. I don't want to be spending time tweaking a bow. I get paid to tweak archers. Tweaking the archer's equipment is a necessary evil that we want to minimize time spent on.
> 
> It's much easier for me and other tuners to tweak up a hybrid cammed bow. Sorry - it's the raw truth. Having shot dual synced cammed bows in competition (and winning with them when I was shooting for Athens), I know what it takes to tune a dual synced cammed bow to shoot at a high level, but it's not something I enjoy doing. Being blunt, it takes me about 10 minutes at worse to tune and tweak one of my student's PSE's, Mathews, or Hoyt's when I see something go slightly off, and most of that is walking over to the press and back. My Athens Exceed? It takes far longer.
> 
> Does that mean the dual synced cam is inferior? To the uninformed - yes. To those who know what they are doing, it's like anything else...you need the time and the knowledge. Unfortunately, the time spent on a dual synced cam bow is higher.
> 
> Two - tuning doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to different archers. Frankly, the bows you see shot at a high level are out of tune. A good tuner will tweak and adjust the bow specifically to the archer. But, the dual synced cam's nature is to keep things in a synchronized method so that tuning by a specialist isn't necessary...for most average archers.
> 
> Even on a higher end youth level, tuners and coaches will tear down and tweak the shooter's bow, irrespective of cam system. But you don't see too many dual synced cammed bows in competition on the higher levels, even on the youth side of the world.
> 
> This is where I'm extremely curious to see the tuning done by Darrin and Levi. Did Darrin and Levi make their bows go out of tune to fit them, or did they adjust their form to fit the cam system? One method would prove that the cam system works for a pro. The other shows that they are pros because they can handle whatever is thrown their way.
> 
> Three - Will I recommend a dual synced cam system to a target archer? Frankly, no. Supposed simplicity in the cam system does not equal tunability to the archer. And again, if the dual synced cam system was so great due to it's cost and price point, you'd be seeing it all over on podiums worldwide. You don't.
> 
> Four - what will it take for Elite to get there?
> 
> This is where the magic 8-ball comes out. First off, Elite has gotten off to a good start by hiring Levi and Darrin. You gain some level of respect from the hiring.
> 
> Second - Elite has to differentiate itself in the market. Both in the hunting world and in the target world, Elite has to be different in some way, shape, or form, and excel at the same time. How are they going to do that? That's an unknown. Their designs and current cam offerings can be a help or a hinderance.
> 
> Third - Elite has to win. It has to win on the 3D world. It has to win in the paper punching world. The "win on Sunday, buy on Monday" mentality for NASCAR still applies in other markets, archery included.
> 
> This is the hardest part of the plan to pull off. And the most dangerous from a corporate marketing standpoint. Unfortunately, Elite hasn't hired enough pro archers to fulfill that successfully. They need to bring on board more archers with big names. And they need the technical expertise to pull it off.
> 
> Fourth - Explosive growth and a warranty does not make for a good combination. Elite has to be extremely careful about growing pains. Pushing their warranty isn't all that important either. Frankly - if I have to make use of a warranty, the company has failed in a realistic sense. Covering the bow because I was a dipwad is nice customer service, but warranty transfers to another owner is a marketing gimmick that will eventually cost a company money if they don't watch their quality control.
> 
> Fifth - Elite needs to show that they are king of the dual sync cammed bow market. How do you do that? Training. Just like PSE and Hoyt - they need to put on a school for bow techs. Teach the masses the tricks of tuning their bows. Will they? No. Should they? Yes.
> 
> Sixth - Make it easy to modify the bows. With other major bow manufacturers, they all have bows and cam systems (even dual synced cams) that do not require the need for a press to change out draw lengths. You can't market to the masses if you have to have shop equipment to do changes to the bow. This is one of the main reasons why Elite is still a higher end "boutique" bow company.
> 
> Finally - get them while they are young. PSE and Mathews have won over the higher end youth shooter market thanks to their offerings and who they have signed up recently. Hoyt is late to the game, and it's hurt them a bit.
> 
> If Elite wants to win and gain recognition long term, they need to scout, identify, and work with up and coming youth shooters in the 3D and paper target markets. This also means they need to provide an upgrade path for archers where they hook them in, and keep them reeled in during their careers.
> 
> This means they need to try and court younger up and coming archers like TJ Strychalski (PA), Seth Trahan (MA), Sachiko Keane (NY), Sam White (CO), Spencer Yee (AZ), and others. These are kids (13 and younger) that are competitive against High Schoolers (shooting adult distances...and winning). Elite needs to nurture and court kids this young. Elite's future is dependent on that. Get them the equipment that they need, get them the technical support they and their coaches need, and then help get them to the podium.
> 
> So, here are some practical discussion points and possible solutions. Let's see how the discussion denigrates from here.
> 
> -Steve





nhns4 said:


> Nice post. Main point I gather is people are lazy.





Whaack said:


> And yet by Levi's own words he finds the Elite easier to tune. Did you want the video?
> 
> Me thinks you and a handful of others just want to argue and belittle Elite cause it makes you feel good.





nhns4 said:


> Clearly if someone types as much as he did they have way to much time on their hands.


WOW, quite possibly the best, well written, thought provoking comment in all of these 45 pages and these are the only comments you two can come up with? 

Seriously, did you even READ his opinion? You might go back and try again. He never called Levi or anyone a liar, he even stated that an expert can tune them....heck, why am I even trying to explain it again????? :zip:


----------



## THE PHENOM

RM your waisting your time with it...Fan boys are gonna defend their bows till the death...No matter what is said..You could say they are good bows and the latter would jump to bash and say they are great bows not good...Some act like they get paid to defend their bows company...Who cares what someone says about Elite or any other bow company...It's just a comment on a forum...It's not like you have a stake in the company and are receiving a check from them....lmao


----------



## tinbeater

THE PHENOM said:


> RM your waisting your time with it...Fan boys are gonna defend their bows till the death...No matter what is said..You could say they are good bows and the latter would jump to bash and say they are great bows not good...Some act like they get paid to defend their bows company...Who cares what someone says about Elite or any other bow company...It's just a comment on a forum...It's not like you have a stake in the company and are receiving a check from them....lmao


Yep. and some people act like they get paid to bash as well. 
Imao. Bashers are by far worst than fanboys,


----------



## rattlinman

THE PHENOM said:


> RM your waisting your time with it...Fan boys are gonna defend their bows till the death...No matter what is said..You could say they are good bows and the latter would jump to bash and say they are great bows not good...Some act like they get paid to defend their bows company...Who cares what someone says about Elite or any other bow company...It's just a comment on a forum...It's not like you have a stake in the company and are receiving a check from them....lmao


You are right and I will agree that I can be a bit of a fanboy for the bows that I shoot, it just hits me wrong that we can't have a honest discussion about something and even disagree, without all of the comments that follow most of the time.


----------



## rattlinman

tinbeater said:


> Yep. and some people act like they get paid to bash as well.
> Imao. Bashers are by far worst than fanboys,


Agreed. Being loyal is fine, being disrespectful is childish. 

I'd much rather argue the merits of Elite and Mathews with Phenom and have a grown-up discussion, than to agree with another Mathews fanboy that resorts to childish comments.

Heck, I'm not even saying Beastmaster is right, but I do think his comment should at least cause folks to think about it.


----------



## THE PHENOM

I to use to be a fan boy of sorts...I loved Elite more than any company ever...It was personal not I owned one of their bows so I just jumped in...I seen the light and quit drinking the Kool Aid when they slammed the door in my face and alot of others as well...Now I just shoot what feels right and that could be any bow from any company...I have my own opinions on their 14 bows but yet I will still tell you the 13 bows and back were some of their best ever...To many cry babies like Nick that want to jump on every Elite thread when someone gives their opinion and start bashing them and trying to quote and call them out...I mean really who cares anymore????Be an adult not a child...All they are doing is representing Elite in a negative manner and turning people away....I to have been guilty of letting my feelings get in the way and acting childish...I am rising up and care less what someone says about a bow in a negative way...I will still sleep very well at night...lol..Good post tho RM...


----------



## nicko

THE PHENOM said:


> I to use to be a fan boy of sorts...I loved Elite more than any company ever...It was personal not I owned one of their bows so I just jumped in...I seen the light and quit drinking the Kool Aid when they slammed the door in my face and alot of others as well..........


How did Elite slam the door in your face?


----------



## THE PHENOM

nicko said:


> How did Elite slam the door in your face?


Really none of your business nor do I wish to discuss it any further..Shoot straight man....


----------



## jimb

KimberTac1911 said:


> Isn't just adding shims make it easier to tune :darkbeer: all joking aside don't elite have more options tuning wise vs Mathews when it comes to cams and everything


I wouldn't think so, Mathews has a yoke that you can do alot of tuning with


----------



## sagecreek

jimb said:


> I wouldn't think so, Mathews has a yoke that you can do alot of tuning with


Yeah, you can add a ton of prelean on one end. lain:


----------



## nicko

THE PHENOM said:


> Really none of your business nor do I wish to discuss it any further..Shoot straight man....


I see. Then I can only guess that you're still stinging over no speed burner bow in the 2014 lineup.


----------



## Archerybuff

THE PHENOM said:


> Wish everyone had the common sense you do...Life on AT would be great...Good post...


I got $2 that says PHENOM and blakbelt are the same person:wink:


----------



## THE PHENOM

Archerybuff said:


> I got $2 that says PHENOM and blakbelt are the same person:wink:



I got $1000.00 that says were not...You callin it???????I'm your Huckleberry....:wink:


----------



## THE PHENOM

nicko said:


> I see. Then I can only guess that you're still stinging over no speed burner bow in the 2014 lineup.


Exactly a guess that you know nothing about...Glad to know you care tho...lol


----------



## hoyt em all

wow! 45 pages of this move ,what if Tiffany was getting a divorce and switching to hoyt!


----------



## THE PHENOM

It would be like a thousand pages of people wanting her number...lmao


----------



## cp-er

Skeeter 58 said:


> The thing I'm gonna like most is when Levi and the others wins with a so called inferior cam design, with a higher let off, and limb stops, that many say is not capable of better accuracy.
> 
> Yep, gonna like that one quite well.


According to a lot here that is just what he has been doing since he was 7.


----------



## nicko

THE PHENOM said:


> Exactly a guess that you know nothing about...Glad to know you care tho...lol


You were pretty upset and vocal about how slighted you felt by the lack of a speed bow when the Energy line was released. I guess Elite has slammed many doors in your face.


----------



## 45 x

Hey girls, this is out of control.....
EVERYONE knows that HOYT is THE BEST.


----------



## Skeeter 58

THE PHENOM said:


> RM your waisting your time with it...Fan boys are gonna defend their bows till the death...No matter what is said..You could say they are good bows and the latter would jump to bash and say they are great bows not good...Some act like they get paid to defend their bows company...Who cares what someone says about Elite or any other bow company...It's just a comment on a forum...It's not like you have a stake in the company and are receiving a check from them....lmao


Exactly. It's the most childish, brain dead thing there is on here.


----------



## Skeeter 58

tinbeater said:


> Yep. and some people act like they get paid to bash as well.
> Imao*. Bashers aare by fr worst than fanboys,*




Not at all. The cold hard facts are that fanboys are the worse part of ArcheryTalk. 

They will jump to the rescue if someone even looks cross ways at their preferred brand. 

Fanboys call anything other than "it's the best bow ever was" a bash. 

Fanboys cannot accept that every bow manufacturer has had issues, and yep, that includes their preferred brand. Even when someone posts the good aspects of a bow, along with the not so good, the fanboys gets their panties in a wad and takes it as if someone just punched their grandmother in the face. 

Very childish indeed. 


Manufacturers monitor these sites. They see first hand what their customers are saying. 

They see first hand what is going on with certain issues and they act accordingly to rectify them. 

So use your heads for something other than a hat rack. Be willing to discuss certain issues and how to rectify them. 

It's easy to spot a basher. They will have nothing good to say what so ever about a bow or product. They are there to trash talk and sling mud only. 

To discuss issues with earnest and good intentions does not constitute a basher. 

Folks needs to learn the difference and there will be lots less confrontations on here about any bow manufacturer.


----------



## Kstigall

I'll bet anyone and everyone a dollar that Levi does very well with Elite bows..................... It's a sure bet on my part. I mean if he can win with a MaChews he can win with anything and that could be what it takes!! :becky: 




Relax folks I'm just having a little fun!! I'm _currently_ shooting a couple of PSE's. Bust on me all you like, just don't be so foolish as to take it seriously!


----------



## Ohio Mossy Oak

Skeeter 58 said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> It's easy to spot a basher.


Kind of like harping on the same company for the same thing OVER an OVER?


----------



## rattlinman

Kstigall said:


> I'll bet anyone and everyone a dollar that Levi does very well with Elite bows..................... It's a sure bet on my part. I mean if he can win with a MaChews he can win with anything and that could be what it takes!! :becky:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Relax folks I'm just having a little fun!! I'm _currently_ shooting a couple of PSE's. Bust on me all you like, just don't be so foolish as to take it seriously!


I'll take that bet, but "does very well" is pretty subjective. How about this?

You take Levi, I'll take Danny McCarthy.
$1 per ASA event, best placing wins.
$3 for best placing for SOY
total - $10

loser either paypals the $10 to the victor, purchases the victor something on here, AND has to put in their sig for until the start of ASA next year: "yeah, I bet against "insert shooter" and lost!"

Deal?

and yeah, this is just for fun, I hope both Levi and Dan do well this year.


----------



## Ohio Mossy Oak

rattlinman said:


> I'll take that bet, but "does very well" is pretty subjective. How about this?
> 
> You take Levi, I'll take Danny McCarthy.
> $1 per ASA event, best placing wins.
> $3 for best placing for SOY
> total - $10
> 
> loser either paypals the $10 to the victor, purchases the victor something on here, AND has to put in their sig for until the start of ASA next year: "yeah, I bet against "insert shooter" and lost!"
> 
> Deal?
> 
> and yeah, this is just for fun, I hope both Levi and Dan do well this year.


Genius!!!!


----------



## Archerybuff

Skeeter 58 said:


> [/B]
> 
> The cold hard facts are that fanboys are the worse part of ArcheryTalk.


Sorry Skeet but you need to get your "facts" straight. The worst part of AT is not the fan boy, but the guys that search out every thread that mentions a particular brand they have an issue with. You know the guys I'm talking about.......the D-bags that that hit every thread that mentions Elite...or Mathews.....or Bowtech etc etc etc. They drag the thread into the weeds talking about the same crap over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.....................They post the same story in EVERY thread they can find, day after day, after day, after day, after day, after day............. 
"Those guys" should get over it and move on to another brand. There are plenty of good bows out there for a guy to shoot and be happy. AT would be an awesome place AGAIN if those guys would grow up or move on to a different forum.


----------



## nicko

Archerybuff said:


> Sorry Skeet but you need to get your "facts" straight. The worst part of AT is not the fan boy, but the guys that search out every thread that mentions a particular brand they have an issue with. You know the guys I'm talking about.......the D-bags that that hit every thread that mentions Elite...or Mathews.....or Bowtech etc etc etc. They drag the thread into the weeds talking about the same crap over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.....................They post the same story in EVERY thread they can find, day after day, after day, after day, after day, after day.............
> "Those guys" should get over it and move on to another brand. There are plenty of good bows out there for a guy to shoot and be happy. AT would be an awesome place AGAIN if those guys would grow up or move on to a different forum.


Agreed. If somebody is so unhappy with a particular brand of bow, get it off your chest once and then move on.


----------



## kravguy

Archerybuff said:


> Sorry Skeet but you need to get your "facts" straight. The worst part of AT is not the fan boy, but the guys that search out every thread that mentions a particular brand they have an issue with. You know the guys I'm talking about.......the D-bags that that hit every thread that mentions Elite...or Mathews.....or Bowtech etc etc etc. They drag the thread into the weeds talking about the same crap over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.....................They post the same story in EVERY thread they can find, day after day, after day, after day, after day, after day.............
> "Those guys" should get over it and move on to another brand. There are plenty of good bows out there for a guy to shoot and be happy. AT would be an awesome place AGAIN if those guys would grow up or move on to a different forum.


That be some purdy good stuff right there. Same could be said for the guys blasting away in the bowhunters forum about all the legal forms of hunting they are against, because it differs from their own way.


----------



## -bowfreak-

rattlinman said:


> I'll take that bet, but "does very well" is pretty subjective. How about this?
> 
> You take Levi, I'll take Danny McCarthy.
> $1 per ASA event, best placing wins.
> $3 for best placing for SOY
> total - $10
> 
> loser either paypals the $10 to the victor, purchases the victor something on here, AND has to put in their sig for until the start of ASA next year: "yeah, I bet against "insert shooter" and lost!"
> 
> Deal?
> 
> and yeah, this is just for fun, I hope both Levi and Dan do well this year.


I think you would have to create a spreadsheet to keep track of this.

I am pretty sure that you are going to owe Kstigall a buck or two. 

You guys are high rollers. :teeth:


----------



## Jaliv92

Archerybuff said:


> Sorry Skeet but you need to get your "facts" straight. The worst part of AT is not the fan boy, but the guys that search out every thread that mentions a particular brand they have an issue with. You know the guys I'm talking about.......the D-bags that that hit every thread that mentions Elite...or Mathews.....or Bowtech etc etc etc. They drag the thread into the weeds talking about the same crap over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.....................They post the same story in EVERY thread they can find, day after day, after day, after day, after day, after day.............
> "Those guys" should get over it and move on to another brand. There are plenty of good bows out there for a guy to shoot and be happy. AT would be an awesome place AGAIN if those guys would grow up or move on to a different forum.


Your not talking about........
CAPTAIN. FIX ROLLER GUY
MRS.SUPER TUNER
MR.CRAPPY FINISH MAN
SIR .FLAKEY LIMB
AND LAST BUT NOT LEST ...
LT.CAM LEAN.


----------



## Kstigall

rattlinman said:


> I'll take that bet, but "does very well" is pretty subjective. How about this?
> 
> You take Levi, I'll take Danny McCarthy.
> $1 per ASA event, best placing wins.
> $3 for best placing for SOY
> total - $10
> 
> loser either paypals the $10 to the victor, purchases the victor something on here, AND has to put in their sig for until the start of ASA next year: "yeah, I bet against "insert shooter" and lost!"
> 
> Deal?
> 
> and yeah, this is just for fun, I hope both Levi and Dan do well this year.


I'll take that bet
You're gonna regret.........



NOTE: "does very well" shall be defined by ME!


----------



## Archerybuff

Jaliv92 said:


> Your not talking about........
> CAPTAIN. FIX ROLLER GUY
> MRS.SUPER TUNER
> MR.CRAPPY FINISH MAN
> SIR .FLAKEY LIMB
> AND LAST BUT NOT LEST ...
> LT.CAM LEAN.


:wink:


----------



## Archerybuff

Kstigall said:


> I'll take that bet
> You're gonna regret.........
> 
> 
> 
> NOTE: "does very well" shall be defined by ME!


He's gonna regret taking your money:darkbeer:


----------



## Skeeter 58

Ohio Mossy Oak said:


> Kind of like harping on the same company for the same thing OVER an OVER?


Discussing known, recurrent issues is not harping there bud. Not in the least. 

It's to bring out the truth. Just like with the BowTech limb finish issues. People need to talk about those sort of things to bring it to the attention of the newer members. 

Do you actually think that it's the same folks on here every day, 24/7, 365, for years? 

Also and as I have said, manufacturers monitor these sites. They don't like to see known issues with their products. And they darn sure don't like to see it talked about on a public forum. If no one ever discussed the issues with a product, the manufacture would think everything is fine, thus nothing will ever be corrected. 

This is common sense stuff and should not be difficult to understand.


----------



## pbuck

Lol!


----------



## -bowfreak-

Kstigall said:


> I'll take that bet
> You're gonna regret.........
> 
> 
> 
> NOTE: "does very well" shall be defined by ME!


Maybe you can buy some d-loop with all your winnings?

I am pretty sure you will at least be able to get some d-loop with your winnings.....if things go GREAT for Levi you might even be able to buy a few nock sets too!


----------



## Skeeter 58

Archerybuff said:


> Sorry Skeet but you need to get your "facts" straight. The worst part of AT is not the fan boy, but the guys that search out every thread that mentions a particular brand they have an issue with. You know the guys I'm talking about.......the D-bags that that hit every thread that mentions Elite...or Mathews.....or Bowtech etc etc etc. They drag the thread into the weeds talking about the same crap over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.....................They post the same story in EVERY thread they can find, day after day, after day, after day, after day, after day.............
> *"Those guys" should get over it and move on to another brand. There are plenty of good bows out there for a guy to shoot and be happy. AT would be an awesome place AGAIN if those guys would grow up or move on to a different forum.*


*
*

Not at all. For starters you don't have to run to the rescue of any manufacturer unless you are in management, or a lawyer. Are the fan boys paid to be fan boys and run to the rescue every time they see or hear someone say anything other than " Oh XXXX is awesome"? I highly doubt it. 

Fan boys cannot stand to see anyone say anything not so good about a certain brand, even when the good is mentioned as well. If there are 10 good things said about a brand, and 10 not so good [but true nonetheless] things said, the fan boys will completely omit the 10 good things and attack someone about the not so good [but true] items. I've seen it plenty of times on here. 

It's about the most childish and silly thing there is. And yes, it causes much more problems than someone that's just out to sling mud. 

All you have to do is ignore them and it will end there. But no, fan boys will be fan boys. And I use the word "Boys" heavily. 

Moral of the story: Fanboys just simply cannot stand to hear of anything negative about their preferred brand. So they jump in and start a fight.

You don't have to jump into every fight just because it's offered to you!

I've always made it a point to discuss both the good and not so good of any product. Even when it's my preferred brand that I currently own. 

There's a lot to be said about being honest in life.


----------



## Daniel Boone

Elite going to continue to grow and get larger each year and with Levi and Darrin. Best is yet to come. 

Bottomline some dont like the fact that Elite has continued to grow and get bigger each year. 

Im diffiantly an Elite Fanboy and Ok archery bows. If someone dont like that fact that is there promblem! Amazing how some come on the forumss to only prove there right and if someone has an opionion different than theres and likes a certian manyfactuer they always throw out fan boy card.
DB


----------



## DeepFried

Daniel Boone said:


> Elite going to continue to grow and get larger each year and with Levi and Darrin. Best is yet to come.
> 
> Bottomline some dont like the fact that Elite has continued to grow and get bigger each year.
> 
> Im diffiantly an Elite Fanboy and Ok archery bows. If someone dont like that fact that is there promblem! Amazing how some come on the forumss to only prove there right and if someone has an opionion different than theres and likes a certian manyfactuer they always throw out fan boy card.
> DB


:thumbup:


----------



## DeepFried

Some just have to shoot down Elite whenever they can. Must have a crappy life to come to every Elite thread and act like a 7 year old girl.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> I'll take that bet, but "does very well" is pretty subjective. How about this?
> 
> You take Levi, I'll take Danny McCarthy.
> $1 per ASA event, best placing wins.
> $3 for best placing for SOY
> total - $10
> 
> loser either paypals the $10 to the victor, purchases the victor something on here, AND has to put in their sig for until the start of ASA next year: "yeah, I bet against "insert shooter" and lost!"
> 
> Deal?
> 
> and yeah, this is just for fun, I hope both Levi and Dan do well this year.


You and your never ending series of great commentary and ideas. Greatness brother.


----------



## THE PHENOM

nicko said:


> You were pretty upset and vocal about how slighted you felt by the lack of a speed bow when the Energy line was released. I guess Elite has slammed many doors in your face.


Not really the speed factor that got me at all...Mad, No, Disappointed, Yes....There is a difference...I see thru the smoke and am not the only one....Hope they do well tho...Eventually they will get it right...Some members here and there know what I am talking about and we are waiting to see....


----------



## jimb

rattlinman said:


> I'll take that bet, but "does very well" is pretty subjective. How about this?
> 
> You take Levi, I'll take Danny McCarthy.
> $1 per ASA event, best placing wins.
> $3 for best placing for SOY
> total - $10
> 
> loser either paypals the $10 to the victor, purchases the victor something on here, AND has to put in their sig for until the start of ASA next year: "yeah, I bet against "insert shooter" and lost!"
> 
> Deal?
> 
> and yeah, this is just for fun, I hope both Levi and Dan do well this year.


I think Danny McCarthy is ready for a real good year this year.


----------



## monsterbuckrick

Levi will do just fine............


----------



## rattlinman

Kstigall said:


> I'll take that bet
> You're gonna regret.........



Are you quoting a Charlie Daniels song? So does that make you Johnny and me the Devil? 

Wait, isn't my name Johnny? LOL This is gonna be fun!!


----------



## rattlinman

Archerybuff said:


> He's gonna regret taking your money:darkbeer:


That's right! See, I'm already gathering a gang! By the look of that mustache in your avatar, I'm gaining some muscle. You'll be my enforcer Buff!!


----------



## rattlinman

TexasCanesFan said:


> You and your never ending series of great commentary and ideas. Greatness brother.


Not sure about that greatness stuff, but I try darn hard to keep this site fun...and taking K's money will be fun! Nice thing is I know he and I can have fun, rib each other, but keep it civil.

Maybe when I bank my winnings I'll buy that avatar of his!


----------



## rattlinman

jimb said:


> I think Danny McCarthy is ready for a real good year this year.


Another posse member!!

I hope Danny does have a good run this year too.


----------



## THE PHENOM

I don't care either way but I hope Danny wins to just to shut up the Levi hump boys...Gets old seeing a bunch of grown men swinging from another mans....


----------



## TexasCanesFan

THE PHENOM said:


> I don't care either way but I hope Danny wins to just to shut up the Levi hump boys...Gets old seeing a bunch of grown men swinging from another mans....


Commenting on and following whatever brand Levi changed to or stayed with is no different than doing the same thing when Peyton Manning was changing football teams. Top level pros in their respective sports. Acting like it doesn't matter is beyond short-sighted. 

I didn't care who Levi signed with but him changing is a big deal. 



But that doesn't fit your now 2 month old "Elite is the root of all evil" campaign either though. I don't own an Elite and don't know if i ever will again, but your crusade is ridiculous.


----------



## Irish66

TexasCanesFan said:


> Commenting on and following whatever brand Levi changed to or stayed with is no different than doing the same thing when Peyton Manning was changing football teams. Top level pros in their respective sports. Acting like it doesn't matter is beyond short-sighted.
> 
> I didn't care who Levi signed with but him changing is a big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> *But that doesn't fit your now 2 month old "Elite is the root of all evil" campaign either though. I don't own an Elite and don't know if i ever will again, but your crusade is ridiculous.*




pitiful really


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> Commenting on and following whatever brand Levi changed to or stayed with is no different than doing the same thing when Peyton Manning was changing football teams. Top level pros in their respective sports. Acting like it doesn't matter is beyond short-sighted.
> 
> I didn't care who Levi signed with but him changing is a big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> But that doesn't fit your now 2 month old "Elite is the root of all evil" campaign either though. I don't own an Elite and don't know if i ever will again, but your crusade is ridiculous.


I thought you guys were friends. Lol


----------



## TexasCanesFan

nhns4 said:


> I thought you guys were friends. Lol


He's your brother!!!!!

I really don't know what he is gonna call me since I don't even own an Elite. Former Fanboy maybe????


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> He's your brother!!!!!
> 
> I really don't know what he is gonna call me since I don't even own an Elite. Former Fanboy maybe????


Nah he's trying to be Dave4 jr


----------



## THE PHENOM

Not on a crusade..Only mentioned Levi and huggers in the post that twisted your panties....I call you Joe I guess unless your name has changed but hey if you want it you got it....


----------



## TexasCanesFan

nhns4 said:


> Nah he's trying to be Dave4 jr


Dave4 Jr and a brother to NHNS4. Sure sounds like a power broker in the online archery world to me.


----------



## THE PHENOM

nhns4 said:


> Nah he's trying to be Dave4 jr



Better than T-Rex armed troll with a mullet...lmao..Don't get so serious guys...It's all in good fun...


----------



## nicko

Tell us again about how Elite slammed the door in your face.


----------



## THE PHENOM

TexasCanesFan said:


> He's your brother!!!!!
> 
> I really don't know what he is gonna call me since I don't even own an Elite. Former Fanboy maybe????



I see you seen the light then...What happend to the Pulse you were searching for????


----------



## nhns4

TexasCanesFan said:


> Dave4 Jr and a brother to NHNS4. Sure sounds like a power broker in the online archery world to me.


Hey at least I wouldn't be the shortest of the bunch


----------



## TexasCanesFan

THE PHENOM said:


> Not on a crusade..Only mentioned Levi and huggers in the post that twisted your panties....I call you Joe I guess unless your name has changed but hey if you want it you got it....


Yep. That's it. Got my panties all twisted about a Levi/hugger post.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

THE PHENOM said:


> I see you seen the light then...What happend to the Pulse you were searching for????


"Seen the light" really?!?!?!?!? More evil empire rhetoric.........


----------



## Outback Man

I hate it when couples fight...


----------



## THE PHENOM

Almost as bad as you and smash....lmao


----------



## Kstigall

rattlinman said:


> Not sure about that greatness stuff, but I try darn hard to keep this site fun...and taking K's money will be fun! Nice thing is I know he and I can have fun, rib each other, but keep it civil.
> 
> Maybe when I bank my winnings I'll buy that avatar of his!



lain: I...............don't...............think................so! 

If my memory serves me correctly you are a former CaroWhiner. Weeel, I've never lost a nickel to a 'whiner though I have a pocketful of signed crispies formerly owned by 'whiners. 
By the way, unless you're main lining wheaties, spinach and viagara all day every day you aren't man enough for my avatar!!!!!!!! either am I but that isn't relevant.....


----------



## rattlinman

You obviously have me confused with someone else, I've never even been to Carwhiner or Virginny! But you are getting to that age where the memory starts to fail. Signed crispies are just as good as unsigned crispies, glad to see you already have them laid out for me!

I'm man enough to handle that avatar, just may not be man enough to display it though!


----------



## Lazarus

Just had to bump it. :teeth:


----------



## dnv23

Lazarus said:


> Just had to bump it. :teeth:


Come on man!


----------



## Sagittarius

Wish AT had a rule where you could not bump a thread more than 3 months old, (auto locked) like some of the gun sites :exclaim:
That being said, I just brought it back up.


----------



## Lazarus

Sagittarius said:


> Wish AT had a rule where you could not bump a thread more than 3 months old, (auto locked) like some of the gun sites :exclaim:


I figure if someone bumping a three year old topic on a silly message forum is the worst thing that happens today to anyone reading this.......it was a REALLY good day. :teeth:



Sagittarius said:


> That being said, I just brought it back up.


The irony. :cheers:


----------



## nochance

Lazarus said:


> Just had to bump it. :teeth:


You've earned official "TROLL" status! LOL


----------



## LMacD

Nice! I avoided the "big" thread mostly because I just don't care, but this made my day


----------



## Lazarus

nochance said:


> You've earned official "TROLL" status! LOL


I'll say it to you just like I do my wife when she says something degrading; "Well thank you." :teeth:

Does this mean I can only post in Mutantville from now on? :teeth:


----------



## bsharkey

If I'm not mistaken that's what Lazarus does rises from the dead


----------



## cbrunson

bsharkey said:


> If I'm not mistaken that's what Lazarus does rises from the dead


He's old...... but not that old :lol:

Sorry Kurt...


----------



## mrp

I don't think he will be th the Elites all that long.


----------



## trucker3573

Lazarus said:


> Just had to bump it. :teeth:


Lmao!!! Let's keep it going.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## shootstraight

The lost remnants of the old Elite forum guys, lol, fun reading all the bickering.


----------

