# bowjunky?



## paul anderson (Feb 26, 2008)

Is bowjunky done ? Hoyt dropped him, the pro's don't want him on the ranges .
So will they be at Illinois?


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

Why don't the pro's want him on the ranges?


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## CareyHamil (Oct 4, 2005)

Guys I shot with in Kentucky, said he has been bad mouthing the pro's, overall just a dick to people. I know he packed up and left early. It was screwd and arcHER covering the London event.


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## padeadeye (May 13, 2010)

I hope they're not done. I enjoy watching their coverage.


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## ncsurveyor (May 12, 2009)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2477770

Id say he's done


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

ncsurveyor said:


> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2477770
> 
> Id say he's done


That thread has 21 pages. Can you give us a hint?


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Iowa shooter said:


> That thread has 21 pages. Can you give us a hint?


It's worth the read.


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## tgutierrez91 (Jan 13, 2014)

seems to be done after the email he sent out. Seemed to me like he is threatening to use the raw footage he has hard drived to use against other pros.


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## tgutierrez91 (Jan 13, 2014)

here is the email that was posted in the thread. pretty long winded, but the thread is a good read if you are interested 




Here's the email someone sent me. 




Disclaimer** There will be many misspelled words and grammar issues in the post. Its 1:43am and I really don???t give a crap so no need to point it out As of today 5-31-2014 BowJunky will NO LONGER pay ANY Pro a single penny of contingency for our company program? 3 years 17 youth soccer games 4 school plays 1 birthday 1 anniversary My son???s first steps and my son???s first words Is what I personally have sacrificed to edit out and protect YOU and the Brands of this industry on this 3T hard drive you see pictured here. *The interviews filmed where you have badmouthed the very bow company that pays for you to show up and shoot. Or the release that you swear caused you to shoot an 8 on a target you don???t even own so you don???t practice. Or maybe it???s the horrible sight and scopes that wont keep from fogging up on a perfectly sunny day. *The interviews of you leaving one sponsor to go to another and trash that previous sponsor on air and I choose NOT to show the unedited version of you and what you REALLY had to say. But yet I take the heat and fall even though YOU sought ME out for the interview. *The teenage cuss fest???s you have between each other while shooting any given Sunday. *The verbal and almost physical brawls you have on the course over an arrow call that leads to a controversial podcast that I NEVER ASKED FOR, that then leads to straight organized coercion to keep the public from knowing the truth. *The protest between each other involving arrow calls that I was begged to ???keep quiet??? so the public didn???t see just how childish you were acting. *Or maybe it???s the countless rules infractions and tournament violations that occur each event that takes me hours to edit out so that archerytalk or social media doesn???t explode and crash due to the amount of protest that would take place. *Maybe it???s the temper tantrums that involve every 4-letter word and throwing of bows because you made a bad shot but we don???t dare let little Johnny see who you REALLY are outside of your sponsor???s booth. And this is all just in ASA !!! No matter the complaining I take from you. I have in video, photography, social media or all three at the same time have promoted all three of your classes in some capacity over the last three years. Whatever it is, pick just ONE and I have sacrificed all of the above to protect this fragile ???professional archery??? image for YOU. And after all of that, YOU want to treat me and my family like this!? You want to protest and boycott me and what I do for YOU because YOU don???t like the fact that I am trying to help grow an AMATEUR Class that you don???t even shoot or compete in ??? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDDING ME ?!?!?!?! Not to play captain obvious here but try this on for size once. If you put as much effort into selling your sponsors product to the amateur or pro shop customer as you do in trying to stop a known class get ANY attention. Then the manufacturers might just not be in the financial crunch they are where they have to pick and choose which classes to support! Why don???t you spend 15 minutes in the vendor area before or after you shoot to talk to the patrons about the products and help sell the products a little better and the pickings wouldn???t be so damn slim and then it wouldn???t matter if a bow company pays an amateur class a single penny or not! I can only speak for Hoyt because we man their booth. But over the last two years only ONE Hoyt Pro has ever hung out at the booth and answered any questions from potential buyers at an ASA event that we have set up at. PSE has no booth or even sponsor a ASA Pro Am so they cant complain and shouldn???t even have an opinion in this matter. *You complain to me ??? BowJunky has done NOTHING to give back to the Pro Class??? So I feel bad and decide to offer and PAY YOU MONEY IF YOU WIN and GIVE BACK to YOU with a cash contingency THAT WE CANT EVEN AFFORD TO PAY. And TWO, count it again???TWO individuals out of ALL of you Pro???s have ever even taken advantage of that GIVING BACK gesture my family and I put out there for you. And if that isn???t enough. I give YOU your first ever ARCHERY ALL STAR GAME that is ONLY for YOU the Open Pro and has NEVER been done before in our sport! ??? You blame ME for the gossip (no official word from Hoyt) that Hoyt has decided to pull contingency from Open Pro Classes in 2016, all because of rumors and speculation, when this would NEVER be an issue IF YOU WOULD WIN A FREAKING ARCHERY TOURNAMENT that actually matters once in a great while! ??? You protest me on ???behalf of our sponsor??? when your hypocritical sponsors just sent me a check 3 weeks ago to give them pictures of YOU and support what I am doing in the grand scheme of things and ask me if they can have the opportunity to advertise with BowJunky in 2016 ?? ??? Some of you stand on your soapbox of Christianity and even have the audacity to hold hands in a circle and pray before you fire and arrow, to then cast stones and judge me for what? For taking my cameras off of you for 5 minutes to promote another growing class in the ASA? Regardless of how you have treated me over the last three years. Myself and my family have shown up at every event with a smile and fresh memory cards to take your pictures and video promoting YOUR sponsors regardless if they support us or not. Turning some of you into household names in this industry and providing YOU free of charge the photos we take so that you can fluff up your archery resume and validate the bows, travel cash or free arrows you get that come with your BowJunky provided photos and media love for catalog season. There are combined over 130 of you at any given tournament. And yet I can count on my two hands the number of times any individuals that have EVER offered to help. Maybe offer water on a hot day in IL to myself or my then pregnant wife who was taking your pictures. Or maybe even to carry a camera bag or leader board on or off a range after serving YOU the Archery Professional. Never in my life, and that includes my time behind prison walls with human predators, have I EVER witnessed such greed, envy and ungratefulness from a group of grown adults who are supposed to be the pinnacle and example of a professional sport. BowJunky showing some attention to a known archery class is NOT going to be the death or end to ???open pro??? archery in the future. YOU will be the death of yourselves! At some point you will have to take a stand and break this good ol boy mentality that has plagued this sport for 25 plus years. There wont be another me ( BowJunky) come along and do what I have done and put up with this as long as I have ever again. So you better decided if this sport is better at the end of the day WITH me or WITHOUT me!
Last edited by jmann28; June 5th, 2015 at 08:15 AM. Reason: edit


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## Ingo (Oct 16, 2008)

These are the days of our lives...


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

He and his family has done a lot for the sport of archery don't know what happened with him and pros but most of the people enjoy watching the video he put out we all should have said thank you for that


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

Hes a joke and he's done. Sure, they posted pics and some videos here and there, but anyone with a cell phone can do that. Poor attitude and thinks hes a "cool" kid and hes entitled to something. Sport is better off without him.


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## thare1774 (Dec 13, 2010)

If the things he says in that email are true then I sympathize. Nobody has done what Bowjunky does and nobody will step in and do it as well if Bowjunky decides to quit. It seems like the pros take themselves way too seriously and dont see the benefits of free publicity. If I was an ASA pro I would be as nice as possible to Bowjunky simply for the exposure. Bowjunky coverage can and does bring pros into the spotlight, youd be a fool not to ride it out as long as possible.


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## thare1774 (Dec 13, 2010)

gcab said:


> Hes a joke and he's done. Sure, they posted pics and some videos here and there, but anyone with a cell phone can do that. Poor attitude and thinks hes a "cool" kid and hes entitled to something. Sport is better off without him.


Im sorry, but ive yet to see a cell phone video with the same production value as a Bowjunky video.


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## Traberemtp (Oct 7, 2012)

Someone who spends his own money, time away from family, supporting a sport we all love, attempting to bring in more individuals into our sport and you call him a joke. Like everything now a days their is politics involved, you might not agree with his stance on certain issues, but anyone, not only with bow junky but anyone who wishes to support our love of archery and encourage more involvement should be applauded.


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## bkolowski111 (Dec 21, 2009)

gcab said:


> Hes a joke and he's done. Sure, they posted pics and some videos here and there, but anyone with a cell phone can do that. Poor attitude and thinks hes a "cool" kid and hes entitled to something. Sport is better off without him.


Bowjunky's stuff is top notch. No one puts out photos and videos of the same quality that I've seen. You may not understand the hours that go into editing quality photos and video. His stuff was MUCH better than a Joe Blow with his cell phone could do. 

Personally I loved his videos and his coverage of events. He was my first resource to know what was going on at certain shoots. He put a lot of miles and hours into his work supporting and promoting a sport we all love. I sure hope he sticks around, but if the stuff in the email is true I don't blame him for hanging it up. If you read this Bowjunky, please stick around for those of us who love what you do.


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

Own money? So he doesn't get paid from those companies that he has decalled all I've that truck with? He doesn't get endorsements from them? He just spends all his own money and time and doesn't get paid? Or he does get paid since it is/was his job and is bent out of shape because his opinion and way he thinks thjngs should be done isn't the way the actual archers think? As an example, the worthlessness of indoor... Every one has their opinion and that's cool But I think he's a joke and better off without his attitude. And I'd put the acHer group ahead of him for sure. And bowdoc no doubt.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

Interesting


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## Hoytboy2 (Mar 13, 2005)

Wow! Bowjunky is a bit upset. I see his point. We do enjoy the stuff he puts out there and no one has come close to giving the sport and veiwers such a quality product. This sport really does need more coverage to make it grow even more. There will be always way more amatures than pros,but it is the pros that the amatures watch and learn from.I have seen this when I was big into the USPSA pistol shooting. I always made it a point to follow the pros at a shoot, go to their seminars and pick their brains and get to know them. I hope things work out for him and the sport, I really do enjoy it. Thank you Bowjunky for the time and effort you put into it.


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

bkolowski111 said:


> Personally I loved his videos and his coverage of events. He was my first resource to know what was going on at certain shoots. He put a lot of miles and hours into his work supporting and promoting a sport we all love. I sure hope he sticks around, but if the stuff in the email is true I don't blame him for hanging it up. If you read this Bowjunky, please stick around for those of us who love what you do.


^^^^^This - John


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## cnmodaw (Aug 3, 2008)

What bothers me is the fact he thinks he God and no one can do what he does. Why do you think Fitzy left? Everyone love Fitzy and Jason's ego couldn't handle not being the center of attention. What happened to Chuck Cooley? He tried to stir the pot more then grow the sport of Archery. He is the most unprofessional representation to this sport of anyone I've ever met. Anytime someone says something or does something that "bad mouths" him he throw a tantrum like a 2 year old and then tries to throw it in our face that we need him. 

Fact is, he hasn't done much in the last year and takes months to get out a stinkin video. it may be his passion but Its also his Job because he is getting paid to do so by sponsors and the sponsors have money from people like you and I who pay for their product. So with out us there would be no BowJunky. To start a business you have to start up with your own money and make sacrifices. I'm tired of hearing him whine about how he hates being away from his family and all the sacrifices he's made....pretty sure Levi has made some similar sacrifices and time away from the family to do what he loves and provide from his family. Do you ever hear him whine? I'm pretty sure I always hear how blessed he is.

He needs to get some thicker skin and suck it up. You may not think so but I love the videos he puts out and hope they don't go away, but I hate the drama he brings into the archery world. He needs to figure out how to get more videos out at a faster pace and how to ignore the negativity that comes his way.


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## mustang kid (Jul 14, 2009)

So does every one believe that he, out of his own pocket, bought a brand new 50,000 SIERRA and slap bowjunky on the side? Without any help from sponsors?


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

mustang kid said:


> So does every one believe that he, out of his own pocket, bought a brand new 50,000 SIERRA and slap bowjunky on the side? Without any help from sponsors?


Nope, and I woulda got a hemi


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## ATLurker (Jan 2, 2011)

Today - I'm sure gonna miss that guy.

Tomorrow - I sure miss that guy.

The day after that - Bowjunky who?

Same story no matter who you are or what you do. When it comes to a job nobody's irreplaceable.


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## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

I would love to see the unedited videos![emoji6]


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## Joebert (Jan 20, 2013)

dhom said:


> I would love to see the unedited videos![emoji6]


Yup.... Me too


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## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

That email states it was written 5-31-14. That's over a year ago. What's happened in the past year since that email?


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## Joebert (Jan 20, 2013)

He was just posting in Instagram


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

dhom said:


> That email states it was written 5-31-14. That's over a year ago. What's happened in the past year since that email?


Dated wrong. It was sent 5/31/15.

You guys don't think the pros would buck BJ without their sponsors' prior approval, do you? A lot of manufacturers had skin in the BJ game....which is another point, some of you guys act like he did this out of the goodness of his heart, or a love of archery. BS, it was for profit.


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## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

tmorelli said:


> Dated wrong. It was sent 5/31/15.
> 
> You guys don't think the pros would buck BJ without their sponsors' prior approval, do you? A lot of manufacturers had skin in the BJ game....which is another point, some of you guys act like he did this out of the goodness of his heart, or a love of archery. BS, it was for profit.


Never been a fan of his so don't lump me in with your statement. First line of his email that was posted says 5-31-14. Must be a typo.


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## Bryan Thacker (Jan 27, 2011)

I've not been a fan of Bowjunky for a while....Over the past year,it's been more like HoytJunky or ASAjunky. He continues to say that "It's all Archery all the Time" but there is no IBO coverage?!?!?

If he really thinks that this sport cannot survive w/o him he is sorely mistaken! 

I will say this though,he has taken a lot of time from his family to deliver footage to the general public.If the "Pros" are embarrassed from things they have said on the course then they have the right to dispute this footage! After all this is their JOB!


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I would say there is probably a lot of truth in the email.


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## Cbfastcar (May 19, 2015)

i would also love to see the un edited videos


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## jtelarkin08 (Nov 24, 2009)

I would say there is probably ALOT of truth to the email he sent. That being said. He def got a big ego and thought he was above the sport.. I don't shoot enough 3d to care one way or the other if bow junky is a part of it or not..


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't normally get into these kind of conversations, heck I don't post much at all anymore. But I will say this, bowjunky has done some good for our sport. He's tried to help promote but he's also done and said some things that give us all a black eye. I do feel his reviews were bought, just like the reviews in the magazines. Example, bowtech won bow of the year and the pic they posted was a bow that was derailed. 

Levi and some others are on a pedestal of self righteousness Levi's actions and words in some of his post on Facebook would get his butt in a crack if I was one of his sponsors. Calling someone a idiot on social media is plain disrespectful. Further more 98% of archers that aren't pro ride the coat tails and bandwagon of their favorite pros. Example, gene martin. Let a pro comment or start a thread that's controversial and gene martin is there stirring the pot.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I separate Bowjunky, the concept, from Bowjunky, the person. 

The concept was great.


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> I separate Bowjunky, the concept, from Bowjunky, the person.
> 
> The concept was great.


True .. I'm with you but I see people's problem with the guy


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> I separate Bowjunky, the concept, from Bowjunky, the person.
> 
> The concept was great.


That is exactly how I feel thanks for posting that. I will wear my bowjunky hat just for that reason the concept and man it fits my head so well...


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

tmorelli said:


> I separate Bowjunky, the concept, from Bowjunky, the person.
> 
> The concept was great.


That's a very accurate statement, well said.


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## Jwilley (Mar 26, 2012)

I think he was great for the sport. Gave all of us some wonderful insight on what being a professional archer was all about. This is not good news for us!! I personally will miss is twitter/instagram updates.


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

Has the word gotten out that he is for sure done with ASA?


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

Huntin Hard said:


> Has the word gotten out that he is for sure done with ASA?


No clue . I didn't swift through 20 pages of the last thread


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

I have talk to Jason at Redding the last couple years seems to be a good guy .Did a great job of covering the shoot.I hope him and his family well.I think he took a personal side in the ASA and should of just covered the events like any other spots caster.And kept his views to him self and just showed the shoots and the archers as they ranked at each shoot.And leave the Drama to reality tv.


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## nswarcher (Apr 16, 2015)

Another +1 to want to see the unedited footage, if these guys actually carry on like bowjunky says or its another thing, as bad as it would be for the sport maybe guys need a wake up call to when they are on the field eyes are always on them.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

He got pissed when the Pro's told him in Kentucky they wasnt giving him their Scores.. He posted the reason he didn't post the scores was because he was helping the Kids! BS!! Then all the links started flying around Facebook were Jason has been in prison several times.... #meltdown


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

genohuh said:


> He got pissed when the Pro's told him in Kentucky they wasny giving him their Scores.. He posted the reason he didn't post the scores was because he was helping the Kids! BS!! Then all the links started flying around Facebook were Jason has been in prison several times.... #meltdown


What he go to prison for


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

http://m.the-daily-record.com/local...-nine-months-in-prison-for-theft-by-deception


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

genohuh said:


> http://m.the-daily-record.com/local...-nine-months-in-prison-for-theft-by-deception


Not his first rodeo I see


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## dcreighton (Jan 2, 2008)

Well when "Fitz" left it changed. For the worst. I'll give anyone their chance. And I enjoyed Bowjunky in it's prime. Since "Fitz" it's been downhill. Prison maybe he turned around. Maybe not. Still Bowjunky as an ideal did promote and drive awareness of the sport more then any before them. Hope someone else takes up the cause and understands the difference between journalism and self promotion/selling out.


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

genohuh said:


> http://m.the-daily-record.com/local...-nine-months-in-prison-for-theft-by-deception


Looks like he has had issues.


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## salmon killer (Jun 19, 2011)

dcreighton said:


> Well when "Fitz" left it changed. For the worst. I'll give anyone their chance. And I enjoyed Bowjunky in it's prime. Since "Fitz" it's been downhill. Prison maybe he turned around. Maybe not. Still Bowjunky as an ideal did promote and drive awareness of the sport more then any before them. Hope someone else takes up the cause and understands the difference between journalism and self promotion/selling out.


Ya bowjunky just wasn't the same after Fitzy left.Thats were he jumped the shark.


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## genohuh (Mar 14, 2010)

Fitzy should have beat his @$$!!!!!


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## bllykyd (Aug 15, 2012)

I usually don't post too much but I haven't been the biggest fan of bow junky over the last year or so. Especially after Fitz stepped away. The original videos he did with Chance at his house was great. The bow build with Jack Wallace was great. The coverage ON the 3D range was great. However, the empty promises of upcoming video footage of the FX build last year that never showed, the footage of stab setups never showed, the IBO world's coverage of 2013 was promised and never uploaded. But yet constant pictures of new sponsor's, the upgrades on his truck, his; I'm sure he didn't pay for, Hoyt bows. 
As for his time served in prison, sounds like he had demons just like everyone has! He has openly admitted on camera, that had a drug problem in the past. I'm not saying we should be sympathetic for him, but don't always be so quick to judge. I'm sure everyone who has something to say about that has a real squeaky clean history....


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## Mike Pollan (Feb 6, 2015)

Wow...

I really need a TL;DR for that email..


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

I do not have a dog in this fight so I will keep my post short, but if he is honest about his drug past and is on the path of sobriety. Then we need to stick to the real reasons for this current issue. I myself have a drug past, and I am NOT the person I used to be years ago, and I personally take it hard when someone wants to continue to lump me in the "addict" group. If he is trying to make a difference in his life with that issue, then we should all be supportive, and if he has done wrong in the archery world? Then let the fight be about the archery world. No need to drag his past and his family into the argument. I'm sure he has paid his dues for the addiction issues, and I have as well, so I know on my behalf I would really appreciate it if everyone would quit attacking him and bringing up his past. I'm sure he doesn't want to relive that time, and it has nothing to do with the current issue.


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Bowjunky was the best thing that ever happened for 3-D archery, JMO.
Hope someone else can step in and film the tournaments in the future.
Not going to judge Jason for his past sins, as I'm far from perfect myself.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

genohuh said:


> He got pissed when the Pro's told him in Kentucky they wasnt giving him their Scores.. He posted the reason he didn't post the scores was because he was helping the Kids! BS!! Then all the links started flying around Facebook were Jason has been in prison several times.... #meltdown



Do you think the Pro's made that decision on their own? If so you are wrong. When your check signer says "avoid that guy" then you avoid that guy. I expect most Pro's feel most obligated to their primary sponsor than to the guy making videos and a very minor sponsor and rightfully so.........


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

Kstigall said:


> Do you think the Pro's made that decision on their own? If so you are wrong. When your check signer says "avoid that guy" then you avoid that guy. I expect most Pro's feel most obligated to their primary sponsor than to the guy making videos and a very minor sponsor and rightfully so.........


Very true, they are no different than any other employee in this country, you do what the person signing your checks tells you to do.


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

moving fwd whoever takes over cant bid for sponsor money. what needs to happen is all pitch in and get archery coverage. not some guy wearing a hoyt shirt all the time or who ever is paying the most . that way 
no one gets there but hurt over advertising of the competitions product. this can work for sure but I think its too late for Jason he should have been on damage control like the day after KY.


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

Even when all the work done is based strictly on kindness of heart, volunteer time, personal sacrifice, and just taking pics to be a nice guy with no monetary gain?


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

He wanted to be the ESPN of Archery. That's a valid venture. I won't blame him for his past. In fact I think digging those things up is pointless. 

If he wanted to be the media guy, he needed to be un-biased. He was not because of his sponsors. I think he knew this. It jumped the shark when he was pushing marked yardage so hard. HELLOOO. Everyone knows Hoyt has no market in the 3d game. How do you get them market in the 3d game? Make a marked yardage Pro class where the paper punchers have a shot. If I recall Hoyt swept the podium in the K50 class. I saw right through that. So I'm sure other companies did as well, they didn't like the idea of having to pay out more contingencies, etc...so told their Pro's that he's off limits.


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

Looks like "Bow Junky" is still up and running but doing bow and equipment reviews for now. He just posted on Facebook on how much he loves his new Elite Synergy, and how that TOG doesn't have any affiliation.


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## Okie101 (Nov 1, 2009)

tmorelli said:


> Dated wrong. It was sent 5/31/15.
> 
> You guys don't think the pros would buck BJ without their sponsors' prior approval, do you? A lot of manufacturers had skin in the BJ game....which is another point, some of you guys act like he did this out of the goodness of his heart, or a love of archery. BS, it was for profit.


Kinda of like selling previous sponsors equipment on AT, that he got for free or some at a very huge discount, while doing his awesome bow/accessories reviews.


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## Outsider (Aug 16, 2011)

GVDocHoliday said:


> It jumped the shark when he was pushing marked yardage so hard.


I still can't believe there are people who can judge yardage so good to hit 12 on 3D


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## TM2/SSMike (Mar 20, 2014)

jrandres said:


> I do not have a dog in this fight so I will keep my post short, but if he is honest about his drug past and is on the path of sobriety. Then we need to stick to the real reasons for this current issue. I myself have a drug past, and I am NOT the person I used to be years ago, and I personally take it hard when someone wants to continue to lump me in the "addict" group. If he is trying to make a difference in his life with that issue, then we should all be supportive, and if he has done wrong in the archery world? Then let the fight be about the archery world. No need to drag his past and his family into the argument. I'm sure he has paid his dues for the addiction issues, and I have as well, so I know on my behalf I would really appreciate it if everyone would quit attacking him and bringing up his past. I'm sure he doesn't want to relive that time, and it has nothing to do with the current issue.


Well said. I too have a checkered past and try not to hold anyones past against them.


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## blakbelt (Jan 6, 2012)

Wow... after reading a couple of these threads, I never realized what a bunch of whiny, back-stabbing divas make up the "professional" archery world. To be honest, I would call out both sides of this entire situation as unprofessional. First off, BowJunky with their blabbering , woe is me, I'll take my toys and go home, diatribe. Completely unprofessional and uncalled for actually. It sounds way too personal, and not the way I would ever expect a "business" to be operated. Secondly, all these "professional" archers whining about K50 and contingencies and everything else. You know what, you are not executives in the sport of archery... you guys are the "athletes" that are paid to show up and shoot. Whoever runs the venue, league, event has every right to run their sport the way their governing body sees fit. If the archers don't like it, hit the road but shut up and be professionals about it.


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

blakbelt said:


> Wow... after reading a couple of these threads, I never realized what a bunch of whiny, back-stabbing divas make up the "professional" archery world. To be honest, I would call out both sides of this entire situation as unprofessional. First off, BowJunky with their blabbering , woe is me, I'll take my toys and go home, diatribe. Completely unprofessional and uncalled for actually. It sounds way too personal, and not the way I would ever expect a "business" to be operated. Secondly, all these "professional" archers whining about K50 and contingencies and everything else. You know what, you are not executives in the sport of archery... you guys are the "athletes" that are paid to show up and shoot. Whoever runs the venue, league, event has every right to run their sport the way their governing body sees fit. If the archers don't like it, hit the road but shut up and be professionals about it.


Agreed!


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

TM2/SSMike said:


> Well said. I too have a checkered past and try not to hold anyones past against them.


I try to always put myself in the other shoe and see things from the other side. I used to be very quick to judge, but here recently I try to slow down just a bit before reacting.


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

blakbelt said:


> Wow... after reading a couple of these threads, I never realized what a bunch of whiny, back-stabbing divas make up the "professional" archery world. To be honest, I would call out both sides of this entire situation as unprofessional. First off, BowJunky with their blabbering , woe is me, I'll take my toys and go home, diatribe. Completely unprofessional and uncalled for actually. It sounds way too personal, and not the way I would ever expect a "business" to be operated. Secondly, all these "professional" archers whining about K50 and contingencies and everything else. You know what, you are not executives in the sport of archery... you guys are the "athletes" that are paid to show up and shoot. Whoever runs the venue, league, event has every right to run their sport the way their governing body sees fit. If the archers don't like it, hit the road but shut up and be professionals about it.


ding ding!!
he is real good at what he does as far as the pics and bring the updates and we need him to do that period ! but im not quite sure why Mike didn't step in and say look here son this is how its going to be. 
but one question I have is why did hoyt drop him? because he wanted to get the shooters more money?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

POOREBOY said:


> because he wanted to get the shooters more money?


No.


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

tmorelli said:


> No.


any ideas? also why did pros not share there cards with him? did the email come out before or was that the reason? this sees so vage .
sorry I may just be slow


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## Mr. Rosewater (Jan 13, 2014)

I've been shooting archery for about 30 years. I watched every bowhunting movie made in the 80s. Own all of PSE's Adventures In Video tapes. Have several of Bernies videos. All of the Fred Bear Collection. And I still feel Bowjunky's footage with soundtrack of Redding Trail Shoot are the most entertaining samples of archery coverage to date.


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

POOREBOY said:


> ding ding!!
> he is real good at what he does as far as the pics and bring the updates and we need him to do that period ! but im not quite sure why Mike didn't step in and say look here son this is how its going to be.
> but one question I have is why did hoyt drop him? because he wanted to get the shooters more money?


I will say it's the same reason Truball dropped him as well. Has nothing to do with his past either.


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

GVDocHoliday said:


> I will say it's the same reason Truball dropped him as well. Has nothing to do with his past either.


Must be top secret???


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## Ky*Bowhunter (Aug 18, 2013)

Jason must have black mailed everyone because everyone is super tight lipped about it . Lol


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

POOREBOY said:


> any ideas? also why did pros not share there cards with him? did the email come out before or was that the reason? this sees so vage .
> sorry I may just be slow


See below. I'd say they didn't give him scores because their sponsors told them not to. The email came out in response to the pros not giving him scores.



Kstigall said:


> Do you think the Pro's made that decision on their own? If so you are wrong. When your check signer says "avoid that guy" then you avoid that guy. I expect most Pro's feel most obligated to their primary sponsor than to the guy making videos and a very minor sponsor and rightfully so.........


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## blakbelt (Jan 6, 2012)

tmorelli said:


> See below. I'd say they didn't give him scores because their sponsors told them not to. The email came out in response to the pros not giving him scores.


I wonder why the sponsors would care? The only thing I can think of is that he did something to piss some off and they just wanted to stick it to him.


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

tmorelli said:


> See below. I'd say they didn't give him scores because their sponsors told them not to. The email came out in response to the pros not giving him scores.


I wonder why they don't like him ? Seems good press and the ones he's pulsing the most drops him?


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I would say that like most stories, you have 2 sides and the truth is somewhere in the middle.


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## Eric Gregg (Nov 8, 2013)

This kind of junk is what kills the sport. 
Really kills the idea of including your family in shoots as to avoid all the egos.
Real shame


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## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

tmorelli said:


> See below. I'd say they didn't give him scores because their sponsors told them not to. The email came out in response to the pros not giving him scores.


Being a shooter you obviously have more information than the rest of us. Care to just fill in all the blanks so everyone can stop speculating?


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

dhom said:


> Being a shooter you obviously have more information than the rest of us. Care to just fill in all the blanks so everyone can stop speculating?


That's half the problem in my opinion , everyone is so tight lipped people speculate ,rumors flare , and a month from now someone will get pissed and tell the whole story and all the drama in between could have been avoided day one


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## dhom (Jun 10, 2008)

bambikiller said:


> That's half the problem in my opinion , everyone is so tight lipped people speculate rumors flare and a month from now someone will get pissed and tell the whe story and all the drama in between could have been avoided day one


[emoji106]


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

dhom said:


> Being a shooter you obviously have more information than the rest of us. Care to just fill in all the blanks so everyone can stop speculating?


I only have second hand info. Sources I trust personally but won't quote....and I agree as stated above, there are two sides to the story and I've only heard one.


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## nhns4 (Sep 25, 2010)

"Junky"


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## bambikiller (Feb 27, 2004)

nhns4 said:


> "Junky"


Lmao ... I was waiting for it


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## cnmodaw (Aug 3, 2008)

I heard from a very reliable source it was a breech of contract. I was told he was going after money from different bow companies while still with Hoyt. Again there is always 2 sides to the story and I am just stating what I heard.


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## mthcharlestown (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't know about anyone else but this is all very interesting to me. It's this kind of drama that keeps me interested in AT. It's fun to read about! Why do you think the stars have sex tapes, rehab, etc. Drama keeps people interested, like looking at a car wreck.


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

jrandres said:


> I do not have a dog in this fight so I will keep my post short, but if he is honest about his drug past and is on the path of sobriety. Then we need to stick to the real reasons for this current issue. I myself have a drug past, and I am NOT the person I used to be years ago, and I personally take it hard when someone wants to continue to lump me in the "addict" group. If he is trying to make a difference in his life with that issue, then we should all be supportive, and if he has done wrong in the archery world? Then let the fight be about the archery world. No need to drag his past and his family into the argument. I'm sure he has paid his dues for the addiction issues, and I have as well, so I know on my behalf I would really appreciate it if everyone would quit attacking him and bringing up his past. I'm sure he doesn't want to relive that time, and it has nothing to do with the current issue.



Agree with most of this, if he is truly fighting for sobriety that is honorable and should be commended and supported, and it shouldn't be a consideration in this current storyline; and his family doesn't belong in this dialog either, but... 

The offense portrayed in the previous link was one of deception, one against trust, a crime of morality, and not an addiction. To me this is something that goes beyond addictions and speaks instead to deeper character attributes. Addictions I personally can forgive and ignore, crimes of morality I'm a little less tolerant of, and just from the little I've followed all this those attributes are still showing all be it subtle. 

My $0.03


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

I might not agree with everything that Jason has said and done, but whoever brought up his past and posted it all over social media, is a real chicken ****! Did he do some dumb things in his past? Yep, but he has always been honest about it and never hid it from anyone! I am really unclear with what that has to do with anything that is currently going on with Archery in general! I understand that his actions and comments in the "email" and his stance on some forms of archery is what should determine what happens to him and bowjunky, not his past run ins with the law! It's not like he was a convicted child molester and was out filming and running a leader board for the eagle classes! I know it seems hard for everyone now days to make logical statements when discussing these things with archery, but someone could atleast try! Stay classy AT!!!


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

ShootingBlind said:


> Agree with most of this, if he is truly fighting for sobriety that is honorable and should be commended and supported, and it shouldn't be a consideration in this current storyline; and his family doesn't belong in this dialog either, but...
> 
> The offense portrayed in the previous link was one of deception, one against trust, a crime of morality, and not an addiction. To me this is something that goes beyond addictions and speaks instead to deeper character attributes. Addictions I personally can forgive and ignore, crimes of morality I'm a little less tolerant of, and just from the little I've followed all this those attributes are still showing all be it subtle.
> 
> My $0.03


I really do have to agree with you, I myself have always said that the drugs didn't make the person do the crime that they chose other than the drug use. I think those character traits come from deep within and I'm sure the drugs sped up their unveiling, but they did not force them to make the decision that they did. If I wanted to wreck my life with drugs I found a way to get more work to get more money, not steal to feed it. Maybe I am the chosen few that did it that way, but I just cant see how the drugs alone made them lie, cheat, and steal. Those issues were already within.


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## boner (Jan 9, 2008)

If you want to see some unedited footage, just walk down the pro range and watch. It's not like he's video taping them on some private range somewhere. There's usually a couple hundred people watching the same thing he is.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

His wife is a really nice person. I hate that she is getting dragged into this. She worked hard, being out there on the range taking photos and doing what she could to support Bow Junky and archery.

That's my only take on this because I have no "insider" info, nor have I been personally impacted by the furor surrounding this situation.


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## redwagon (Nov 29, 2014)

Life is not fair and anyone who tells you it is, is setting you up for failure. The fact of the matter is he pi$$ed someone off that has authority in the professional archery realm, and they brought his run to an end. Maybe it was a slight offense that he did not even knew he did or maybe he was trying to sell some of the video that showed the "Pro's" acting unprofessional back to their sponsors. I was never a big fan of his, but if he's truly getting screwed around I feel for him. Bottom line is the sport will continue. If the sport is to truly grow then we have to take time to teach our kids and their friends how to shoot. Buy your wife a bow and make it a family affair.


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

cnmodaw said:


> I heard from a very reliable source it was a breech of contract. I was told he was going after money from different bow companies while still with Hoyt. Again there is always 2 sides to the story and I am just stating what I heard.


if this is the case why did trubal and not goldtip and aae drop him?? if you read any of his new FB posts you will notice the disclaimer about" im not paid to say this about this product" so that leads be to believe it was an sponsorship conflict but that still doesn't make any since about not getting score cards from the pros I could understand hoyt guys but why should all other bow companies care? we have just enough info to make I a Days Of Our Lives episode !


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## sightpin (Feb 22, 2007)

This all seems like one of those 'follow the stars" programs on TV.


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

My wife just said that she heard that Stepheno is alive and just shot Roman...again! Tune in next week to see if Roman lives again! Lol


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## ClintR (Apr 20, 2012)

Mark1976 said:


> My wife just said that she heard that Stepheno is alive and just shot Roman...again! Tune in next week to see if Roman lives again! Lol


It actually depresses me that I know what you're talking about. Sigh 

This is what happens when you grow up the only boy with 3 older sisters.


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

Lmao! That's funny...yet sad! Lol


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## ClintR (Apr 20, 2012)

Mark1976 said:


> Lmao! That's funny...yet sad! Lol


mostly sad


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

POOREBOY said:


> if this is the case why did trubal and not goldtip and aae drop him?? if you read any of his new FB posts you will notice the disclaimer about" im not paid to say this about this product" so that leads be to believe it was an sponsorship conflict but that still doesn't make any since about not getting score cards from the pros I could understand hoyt guys but why should all other bow companies care? we have just enough info to make I a Days Of Our Lives episode !


He went after the entire outdoor group. Scott, CBE, Elite, solid broadheads, slick trick, etcetera etcetera.


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

GVDocHoliday said:


> He went after the entire outdoor group. Scott, CBE, Elite, solid broadheads, slick trick, etcetera etcetera.


"He went after" as in he was trying to get them to sponsor his movement? Or he was "attacking" them so to speak...


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

jrandres said:


> "He went after" as in he was trying to get them to sponsor his movement? Or he was "attacking" them so to speak...


Well, he's now shooting an Elite Synergy. I'd say to sponsor his "movement".


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

bowhuntermitch said:


> Well, he's now shooting an Elite Synergy. I'd say to sponsor his "movement".


Very true


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## POOREBOY (Aug 26, 2003)

GVDocHoliday said:


> He went after the entire outdoor group. Scott, CBE, Elite, solid broadheads, slick trick, etcetera etcetera.


It's crazy ! Seem like that's just trying to better your business . So when levi wanted to jump ship yrs ago from mathews no one bashed him they bashed mathews for threaten to sue him. More I hear about it seems he's getting it handed to him imho


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## 94insideout (Jun 13, 2011)

Mark1976 said:


> My wife just said that she heard that Stepheno is alive and just shot Roman...again! Tune in next week to see if Roman lives again! Lol


Yeah Mark I'm sure your "WIFE" had to tell you that stuff......keep watching your stories


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## blakbelt (Jan 6, 2012)

So, BowJunky once commented that they wanted to be the ESPN of professional archery. ESPN creates content, which attracts viewers, and then sells those viewers to advertisers, who pay well to advertise on a popular media outlet. There are some huge differences (other than the obvious ones of size and popularity) though. 

First, ESPN does not tie itself to manufacturers. It ties itself to leagues. They know that the real power comes from the league. The league can dictate that any player that plays in the league must provide access to ESPN reporters. BJ should have spent way more time engaged with the "league" i.e. ASA. Imagine if ASA ownership partnered with BowJunky and mandated that any pro archers shooting in the ASA must share their score cards with BJ. The ASA is big enough that all pro archers would have had to comply. 

Secondly, ESPN is not exclusive with any particular manufacturer. If Gatorade wants to advertise with ESPN, then they can purchase an ad spot. If Powerade wants to, they can also purchase an Ad spot. Gatorade is not going to "drop" ESPN just because they make some agreement to sell advertising to Powerade. ESPN would be crazy for ever entering into any agreement with Gatorade that limited their ability to also sell advertising with someone else. BJ should have never entered into any sort of binding contract with Hoyt that did not allow them to also represent any other archery manufacturer in advertising. 

I think BJ did not carefuly contemplate their role in the industry. They went from un-biased media to home shopping network willing to push a brand for a buck. This was not the road to ESPN like success.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)




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## Outback Man (Nov 21, 2009)

bowhuntermitch said:


> Well, he's now shooting an Elite Synergy. I'd say to sponsor his "movement".


He's apparently also shooting a Chill X according to FB today...


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

Outback Man said:


> He's apparently also shooting a Chill X according to FB today...


Yup, and he wasn't real happy with the draw length being long. How much do you want to bet the following will happen?

A Mathews employee will contact Jason and express concern with him stating the draw length running a 1/2" long. This obviously doesn't look good for Mathews. Especially the way Jason used the "🏻🏻" in his post. 

Jason will say something along the lines of "if you help me out with so and so, or this, and this other thing, I'll tell the Facebook world that you (Mathews) have great customer service and took care of me." 

Mathews will comply, as would any manufacture because they want good PR.


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## dcreighton (Jan 2, 2008)

blakbelt said:


> So, BowJunky once commented that they wanted to be the ESPN of professional archery. ESPN creates content, which attracts viewers, and then sells those viewers to advertisers, who pay well to advertise on a popular media outlet. There are some huge differences (other than the obvious ones of size and popularity) though.
> 
> First, ESPN does not tie itself to manufacturers. It ties itself to leagues. They know that the real power comes from the league. The league can dictate that any player that plays in the league must provide access to ESPN reporters. BJ should have spent way more time engaged with the "league" i.e. ASA. Imagine if ASA ownership partnered with BowJunky and mandated that any pro archers shooting in the ASA must share their score cards with BJ. The ASA is big enough that all pro archers would have had to comply.
> 
> ...


Exactly. It was also very clear that there is/was stuff going on behind the scenes, or not shown on video, and was mentioned in BowJunky's email that many of the pros didn't want aired. It certainly seems like this closed sport, due to lack of real journalistic coverage (BowJunky started that direction then switched from my point of view) and from the difficulty of covering the sport and top names because of the way shoots takes place, needs a serious jolt amongst the professionals as stuff like that alluded to having happened wouldn't if they were getting ESPN like coverage and were truly under the spot light. Simple stuff like "pulling the line" would be more defined- like cut the line or it's out. There would be electronic score boards. There would be coverage that showed the good and the bad. And the bad would straighten itself out fast because the organization and the sponsors would make sure of it. BowJunky was in a tough spot because if he did negative coverage of the issues and either the organization, the shooters, or the sponsors became upset about it then he was able to be cutout or shutdown quickly because he isn't big enough and he also won't/doesn't get the support from the masses following him as many are in the game themselves. It needs to get "real sport" big and coverage before that two way coverage can truly happen and be tolerated by those involved in it.

I also think BowJunky's push, and that of others, to get Pro type acceptance and money into known yardage class really got under the skin of a bunch of the pros because if it came to fruition the base of shooters competing for that same money would exponentially increase. IMO the sport would also draw a ton more shooters into the competitive fold too if that does happen as it would level the field a bit. But you can't blame the pros for protecting what has worked for them and sets them apart either.


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## Mark1976 (Apr 12, 2012)

94insideout said:


> Yeah Mark I'm sure your "WIFE" had to tell you that stuff......keep watching your stories


Lol! I remeber that show from when I was a kid and my mom watched it! I blamed it on the wife so I didn't look bad! Lol believe me...I am ashamed that I new any of it! Lol Thanks for busting me out though! Haha


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## blakbelt (Jan 6, 2012)

dcreighton said:


> I also think BowJunky's push, and that of others, to get Pro type acceptance and money into known yardage class really got under the skin of a bunch of the pros because if it came to fruition the base of shooters competing for that same money would exponentially increase. IMO the sport would also draw a ton more shooters into the competitive fold too if that does happen as it would level the field a bit. But you can't blame the pros for protecting what has worked for them and sets them apart either.


IMO, BowJunky had/has no business "pushing" anything. Another example of where they overstepped the bounds of what should have been a pretty simple mission. Provide un-biased coverage for a sport that needs exposure, draw viewers to the coverage, and then sell advertising. I understand it is easier said than done, as it is a small sport, and it is hard not to create alliances and friendships, and then your relationship prevents you from airing some of the dirty laundry, and then you aren't un-biased anymore. 

To be honest, I don't get the pros frustration because BJ did nothing but portray them in a positive light, and defended all of them even in the worst of situations. Again, I think this was part of the downfall... should have tried to remain as disconnected and un-biased as possible. 

Heck.. I for one would love to see some pro shooter chuck his binoculars down range. It would kinda like watching a pro golfer duff a shot into the tall grass and toss his club in the water. Who doesn't find that awesome!
It would be great for the sport to develop some personality. People get to know the pros as they are, the ones that are hot-heads, the ones that are funny, the ones that are always calm and cool... that would have been great to bring a new dimension to the sport.


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## mhill (Jul 11, 2011)

That email was dated for 2014, It sounds like to me that he sent that email to a particular person that changed from PSE to another company  last year. Sounds like that person was bashing his bow company before and after switching. Bowjunky stated in the email that maybe if this person actually won with the bow ect..... sound like to me he had quite a falling out with one of his good buds that was featured alot in his first season recording the shoots. 

What that email sounded like to me was a hashing out between bowjunky and a particular person, not the entire group of pros.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Jason aka bowjunky caught the short end of the stick. He really did nothing wrong. What he's did or doing is great for competitive archery especially the asa. Everyone is on here saying what he should do or should have done. Lol seriously people!? Like it or not he was really the only thing out there exposing archery tournaments to people at home.


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## RC-Los17 (Mar 16, 2014)

Honestly who cares what he did in the past had u never seen that info would you say anything about BJ or continue to enjoy what he gave to us... we all Monday night Quater back he should've done this or he did that.. Guess what we don't know what happened so why even talk about it. My Dad alway said if it doesn't involve you and your not 100 percent sure about it then shut the blank up... there's his version there's the other guys version and there's the truth and we don't know so why speculate... did he do a good job yeah I wasn't out there at every event taking pictures and doing videos he was and his family and I give him props for doing it.. if he got paid and sponsored etcetc who the hell cares your telling me anyone here would turn it down come on... everybody needs to get off there pedastal man... I don't care about his past or his beef with pros or sponsors I enjoyed Bow Junky as a whole anf if you say you didn't then you havebt been into aechery seriously for the past few years cause he was everywhere.. And if you go threw those pics and videos count how many "pros" you zee with a bow junky hat or shirt on everybody was rocking something bow junky so when I see that and then I see those same guys turning there back on it... that makes me question this sport and what's it about and becoming... everyone is so involved with pro staff and sponsors and contengency and this and that and being Pro... Well what happened to just having fun and shooting with friends and making new friends and helping others... If I was a new archer o would really think about shooting competivly with all this BS drama. In the last month I have seen so much back stabbing and just plain out disrespect to others.. and let me tell you I am not a so called Pro not that I can't jusy pay some money and call myself one but I have lost alot of respect for some Pro's this last few weeks.. and if I was a sponsor I would be making examples out of them for sure.... I mean the goal should be together and growing instead we are separating and this is the outcome..... it's really a shame really is... if this is the way it's gonna be I will stick to my local leagues and local shoots where the true fun of archery is still there.... just my.02


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

If bow junky provided unedited coverage of the sport many pros would be hit for rule violations. There are so many it is pure silliness. And to bash someone who is doing his best to promote the sport is embarrassing! Is he perfect nope he is HUMAN so get on with it and I personally believe he like archery TV in Europe serve a valuable service to us who pay nothing for the privalage. If he stops it will be a horrible loss to the sport as a whole. Sad times when the arm chairs and wish to bees along with pros who are in the wrong attack the only hope the sport currently has.


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## gcab (Mar 24, 2010)

why does anyone care what he thinks of equipment in the first place? anyone can grab an arrow and shoot it through a chrono, so what is he really going to provide knowledgeable shooters? He shot a couple tournaments, and the scores are posted.. apparently he cant shoot very well. So when someone cant shoot very well, how do they even know what is good/bad about a bow in the first place? Just don't get why his opinion on anything is meaningful to anyone


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## pointndog (Jul 14, 2005)

I figured part of the Pro's not giving him scores had to do with the previous ASA. Which he thought he knew a score and told Levi, so Levi shot safe thinking he was in the shoot down. But it wasn't the right score and he could have went for it to make the shootdown. It was on FB they both commented on it.


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## Sagittarius (May 22, 2002)

Sasquech said:


> If bow junky provided unedited coverage of the sport many pros would be hit for rule violations. There are so many it is pure silliness. And to bash someone who is doing his best to promote the sport is embarrassing! Is he perfect nope he is HUMAN so get on with it and I personally believe he like archery TV in Europe serve a valuable service to us who pay nothing for the privalage. If he stops it will be a horrible loss to the sport as a whole. Sad times when the arm chairs and wish to bees along with pros who are in the wrong attack the only hope the sport currently has.



Best post of this entire thread ! :thumbs_up


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I am amazed at the number of folks that simply post on this thread or any thread for that matter without at least scanning through previous posts......
Recap... of course much of it is "rumored", from a reliable source and/or at least partially backed up by the "results".
1. BJ _recently _messed up with his primary sponsor (Hoyt). Word was spread and many, a lot or some Pro's were told by their employers to not work with Bow Junky.
2. An email has been posted in this thread was sent out by BJ to some Pro's...... I think it's very reasonable to say that at least some of it is very true. but I doubt any one person knows for sure exactly what is partially or completely just one mans opinion. i would expect at least part of it is very "subjective".
3. Many "stories" have been flying around. Jason's past has been brought up and paraded around as though it was new info and it's not. It is reasonably suspected there is "more" to this story and I'm sure there is. It is reasonably suspected that much of it is BS and I feel confident that is also true.

In a nut shell, Bow Junky (Jason C.) was fired by Hoyt for cause it seems and consequently the small world of archery has basically shunned him. The exact "cause" is not what many folks think it is and very few folks absolutely know for sure precisely why Hoyt did what they did. 

PLEASE,rather than asking the same questions over and over read this thread in it's entirety! If you want to know about the e-mail Jason sent out find it in this thread and read it for yourself! I feel certain Hoyt and Jason are not going to go toe-to-toe over this on AT. Even if they did it would accomplish nothing of value. 

I hope some good comes out of this. Like an independent producer of archery tournament video and interviews. NOT a producer of Pro archers doing "infomercials"!!! NOT another producer that is heavily sponsored (contracted) by one primary sponsor from the archery community.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

^^^amen.


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## blance7 (Jan 11, 2012)

I never really cared for his videos much.. He always tweaked me the wrong way. Like he was really arrogant. Never cared for the guy.


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## Okie101 (Nov 1, 2009)

Sasquech said:


> If bow junky provided unedited coverage of the sport many pros would be hit for rule violations. There are so many it is pure silliness. And to bash someone who is doing his best to promote the sport is embarrassing! Is he perfect nope he is HUMAN so get on with it and I personally believe he like archery TV in Europe serve a valuable service to us who pay nothing for the privalage. If he stops it will be a horrible loss to the sport as a whole. Sad times when the arm chairs and wish to bees along with pros who are in the wrong attack the only hope the sport currently has.


A horrible loss....lol. Anybody is replaceable.


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## Billincamo (Dec 8, 2002)

I have shot in the limited pro, pro open, and now the senior pro. I haven't witnessed any the things he talks has in the email. As for helping carrying his equipment camera etc.. Sorry if I have a bow and stool to carry out of my own, they kind of take up both hands and it doesn't leave a free hand to help him carry one camera. Not offering him water, well I don't carry water because they have water stations with cups every 5th target for anyone that wants it. Before the shoots most pro's are warming up shooting their bows, sorry time if we came to the shoot to compete and socializing takes second place to that. Pro's are typically very approachable and you can find post after post to back that up here on AT. As for sacrifice we all sacrifice to get where we are, so stop crying your getting paid for your sacrifice. I was at the meeting and it was obvious Bowjunky has a personal agenda. Unfortunately he has done more damage then good to the sport of archery. I think his email proves his lack of character.


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## blance7 (Jan 11, 2012)

Billincamo said:


> I have shot in the limited pro, pro open, and now the senior pro. I haven't witnessed any the things he talks has in the email. As for helping carrying his equipment camera etc.. Sorry if I have a bow and stool to carry out of my own, they kind of take up both hands and it doesn't leave a free hand to help him carry one camera. Not offering him water, well I don't carry water because they have water stations with cups every 5th target for anyone that wants it. Before the shoots most pro's are warming up shooting their bows, sorry time if we came to the shoot to compete and socializing takes second place to that. Pro's are typically very approachable and you can find post after post to back that up here on AT. As for sacrifice we all sacrifice to get where we are, so stop crying your getting paid for your sacrifice. I was at the meeting and it was obvious Bowjunky has a personal agenda. Unfortunately he has done more damage then good to the sport of archery. I think his email proves his lack of character.



I think he definitely shot himself in the foot on that one...Many let their emotions get the best of them at some point, but not to the extent that he did with that email. As I stated above I cant stand watching him talk on those videos because he has some sort of arrogance about him on those, especially his product videos. And sacrifice is when you do something, with little or nothing in return, so I have to agree with you. I don't see what he did as a "sacrifice." Just him being a drama queen. That email he sent out confirmed for me all of the things I assumed of him in his videos.


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## blance7 (Jan 11, 2012)

Okie101 said:


> A horrible loss....lol. Anybody is replaceable.



There are plenty of people who can run a camera in America and conduct interviews..The sport will get by.


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## ClintR (Apr 20, 2012)

That email should have stayed private as it was intended. Whomever started spreading it around is classless IMO.


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## JustJerry (Feb 8, 2011)

tmorelli said:


> I separate Bowjunky, the concept, from Bowjunky, the person.
> 
> The concept was great.


I agree!


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## blance7 (Jan 11, 2012)

ClintRhodes said:


> That email should have stayed private as it was intended. Whomever started spreading it around is classless IMO.


Agreed, it should have, but the person who sent it should have known that there could have been some serious consequences to hitting the send button on that. Perhaps he doesn't care about the consequences and just had enough..Who knows. Every man does have his breaking point.


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## ClintR (Apr 20, 2012)

blance7 said:


> Agreed, it should have, but the person who sent it should have known that there could have been some serious consequences to hitting the send button on that. Perhaps he doesn't care about the consequences and just had enough..Who knows.


I certainly agree with that.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Okie101 said:


> A horrible loss....lol. Anybody is replaceable.



yes true. but until bowjunky there was almost nothing..... right!? I guess without him the "pros" realized his works worth and are going the route the women took with ArcHer.


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## Stringster (Aug 12, 2014)

If he was letting his personal drama get in the way and greed then hopefully he will be able to be replaced with someone who cares more about the sport than a paycheck.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Billincamo said:


> I have shot in the limited pro, pro open, and now the senior pro. I haven't witnessed any the things he talks has in the email. As for helping carrying his equipment camera etc.. Sorry if I have a bow and stool to carry out of my own, they kind of take up both hands and it doesn't leave a free hand to help him carry one camera. Not offering him water, well I don't carry water because they have water stations with cups every 5th target for anyone that wants it. Before the shoots most pro's are warming up shooting their bows, sorry time if we came to the shoot to compete and socializing takes second place to that. Pro's are typically very approachable and you can find post after post to back that up here on AT. As for sacrifice we all sacrifice to get where we are, so stop crying your getting paid for your sacrifice. I was at the meeting and it was obvious Bowjunky has a personal agenda. Unfortunately he has done more damage then good to the sport of archery. I think his email proves his lack of character.


Explain how he has done damage to the sport? I wouldn't blanket the entire sport maybe one or two classes or a few people....I don't know all the facts neither does 99% of us but I can say he brought more interest to the sport than anyone else since Wayne Pesrson had ESPN coverage and that was many many years ago...

I hope coverage and live scoring of 3D continues by someone, it makes the sport interesting to follow..Whom ever does this needs to get with Mike T and set rules and guidelines for correctly reporting scores on the range and guidelines for the pros to report the scores in a timely manner.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

We need media exposure for our sport. It is a shame the only two archery coverages are going to be world archery and archery TV. I did not care fore Howard cosel but missed his color commentary. Any one that thinks pro sports thrive without coverage should ask pro skiers how their sport is going. All but dead. Dinosaurs failed to adapt and hold an audience. Sponsors pay for sales period and if they don't get any they stop sponsoring. Maybe PETA will sponsor the sport. Good luck


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## ScottyE (Apr 17, 2008)

Too bad bowjunky didn't work out. I appreciated his effort and the concept was good. I never liked that he had personal sponsors and he wasn't an objective journalist though.

Going forward the sport needs to be covered by someone and I truly hope it is. Let this be a learning experience and the next person who decides to cover the sport of Archery will know better. The best thing would be if ASA did their own coverage of their events like World Archery does.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

^^^^ if anyone thinks journalists are objective they are fooling them selves trace the money some with an agenda pays their bills. That said yes Asa and ibo and other archery organizations need a industry neutral coverage sponsored by Chevy Audi Toyota or some non archery related business. It worked well for skiing till jeep hit hard times.
But it needs to be unbiased industry coverage let the industry sponsor dollars go to contingency across all classes. Sorry pros we need larger participation and pros are a small part of the industry and they don't buy produce they sell it. So if they drive good return on investment then they will get paid


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

People can complain about bow junky all they want, but he did represent the sport. Who is going to take his place? Probably no one. Now all that is left is world archery, no more foam killers on youtube. That sucks.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

schmel_me said:


> yes true. but until bowjunky there was almost nothing..... right!? I guess without him the "pros" realized his works worth and are going the route the women took with ArcHer.


Google arcHER see what you get


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

Just to clear the T.R.U.BALL/AXCEL Questions up, T.R.U.BALL/AXCEL's contract expired on June 6th, 2015, we chose not to renew for 2016. We did not have any discussions with BJ about right of refusal until after that contract had expired, normally this is taken care of before any expiration? Prior to that June 6th date our logos and direct links from the BJ website had been removed and there was a long Sight review that surfaced that was not ours? As you can see I was frustrated and chose to go other directions. FYI there is another media coverage and electronic scoring system coming, you all should check it out.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Just to clear the T.R.U.BALL/AXCEL Questions up, T.R.U.BALL/AXCEL's contract expired on June 6th, 2015, we chose not to renew for 2016. We did not have any discussions with BJ about right of refusal until after that contract had expired, normally this is taken care of before any expiration? Prior to that June 6th date our logos and direct links from the BJ website had been removed and there was a long Sight review that surfaced that was not ours? As you can see I was frustrated and chose to go other directions. FYI there is another media coverage and electronic scoring system coming, you all should check it out.


What is it?


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

Bowmen, just getting started but it can be found on facebook and it is directly related to ArcHER.


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

zekezoe said:


> What is it?


It's called bowmen. Pretty sure thats what he's talking about


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## Hawkeye22 (Dec 24, 2012)

ATLurker said:


> Today - I'm sure gonna miss that guy.
> 
> Tomorrow - I sure miss that guy.
> 
> ...


Ain't that the harsh truth...


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## Tony Bagnall (Sep 8, 2012)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Bowmen, just getting started but it can be found on facebook and it is directly related to ArcHER.


 If you look at the facebook page it tells you its a Professional archers association... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bowmen/402953346571544?sk=timeline


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

Dedicated to bringing the fans images, scores and news that they want.

It was created by a group of professionals.


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## Tony Bagnall (Sep 8, 2012)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Dedicated to bringing the fans images, scores and news that they want.
> 
> It was created by a group of professionals.


It brings the pros scores and pictures... which are interesting to see .....but will they cover the other classes at the shoots?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Why on earth would BJ drop a sponsor's logos and links before the contract expiration? Why do a review for a competiting vendor before contract expiration? 

This strikes me a just plain stupid. But, it directly aligns with the rumor I've heard about Hoyt's reasoning too.


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## WhitetailAce (May 16, 2012)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Dedicated to bringing the fans images, scores and news that they want.
> 
> It was created by a group of professionals.


Looks like this group was just created in the last couple weeks, in the wake of ASAKY.


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## jrandres (Mar 5, 2010)

WhitetailAce said:


> Looks like this group was just created in the last couple weeks, in the wake of ASAKY.


That's my assumption too


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## msteeR (Feb 5, 2013)

i live in dover,ohio same town as jason(bowjunky) and alot of the bow shops here, dont care much for him. cause hes done some crappy stuff here


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## bowhuntermitch (May 17, 2005)

msteeR said:


> i live in dover,ohio same town as jason(bowjunky) and alot of the bow shops here, dont care much for him. cause hes done some crappy stuff here


Weird. Doesn't surprise me one bit, actually.


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## straight2it (Nov 30, 2010)

Jason brought us to the shoots we would not normally see. Video quality was top notch and he put a lot of time and effort to make archers a part of the experience. If some of those archers need to put their big boy pants on and grow up a little and be a little less self absorbed, then that's what they need to do. It's he said she said to us, so hopefully they get it resolved in a mature way where they love thy neighbor and remember the value of being kind to each other instead of petty. Hope they can bury the hatchet so we can get some more coverage.


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## Tony Bagnall (Sep 8, 2012)

So this is the direction Bowmen is taking.???.... this is from Levi Morgans face book page.. will it lead to a separate pro circuit?? Its an interesting move....

Last weekend a link was put on Facebook about a new tournament that is happening next year. It wasn't ready to be released and I'm still not sure who or why someone would've done that. Anyway, I'm getting bombarded with questions so here is the info that I can tell everyone now. 
We are extremely excited to be putting on a tournament next May 19-20. It will be all known distance out to 80 yards and there will be dots on the target. It will be a risk and reward type target. There will be 3 classes, Mens Expert, Womens Expert, and Masters(50&over). There will be a cut off number in each class and an initial invite list. The list you saw the other day was not complete so don't freak out if you weren't on it. If the cap isn't reached by the list then we will either have an alternate list or it will open to first come first serve. We are currently going thru all the legal stuff to get this off the ground so please be patient and hold your questions until the site is released in a week or two. OH Yea, you all will be shooting for what I think will be the biggest crowds & payout ever in our sport. Have a great day!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Bowmen, just getting started but it can be found on facebook and it is directly related to ArcHER.


Will the electronic scoring be update target for target and will everyone be required to show score cards to keep scores up to date? It's fine to post scores but when they are after the round is over that is no different than getting them from the ASA website...


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## WhitetailAce (May 16, 2012)

Tony Bagnall said:


> So this is the direction Bowmen is taking.???.... this is from Levi Morgans face book page.. will it lead to a separate pro circuit?? Its an interesting move....
> 
> Last weekend a link was put on Facebook about a new tournament that is happening next year. It wasn't ready to be released and I'm still not sure who or why someone would've done that. Anyway, I'm getting bombarded with questions so here is the info that I can tell everyone now.
> We are extremely excited to be putting on a tournament next May 19-20. It will be all known distance out to 80 yards and there will be dots on the target. It will be a risk and reward type target. There will be 3 classes, Mens Expert, Womens Expert, and Masters(50&over). There will be a cut off number in each class and an initial invite list. The list you saw the other day was not complete so don't freak out if you weren't on it. If the cap isn't reached by the list then we will either have an alternate list or it will open to first come first serve. We are currently going thru all the legal stuff to get this off the ground so please be patient and hold your questions until the site is released in a week or two. OH Yea, you all will be shooting for what I think will be the biggest crowds & payout ever in our sport. Have a great day!


No, Levi's event is separate from Bowmen. Bowmen is run by a group of the professionals that may include Levi, but his event not anything new, there has been chatter about it for the last few months. I think Bowmen is being lead by Nathan Brooks and/or Chris Hacker.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Dedicated to bringing the fans images, scores and news that they want.
> 
> It was created by a group of professionals.


Awesome, but is the "group of professionals" a group of pro archers or a professional media group who understands all the intricacies of today's media outlets???


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Labs said:


> Awesome, but is the "group of professionals" a group of pro archers or a professional media group who understands all the intricacies of today's media outlets???


Good question because it can be the difference between ok and I want more!


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

cenochs said:


> Good question because it can be the difference between ok and I want more!


Pro ARCHERS. The live scoring goes way beyond bj has ever done and it initially will cover all pro classes. 40 tablets have been purchased with cellular data and an app also has been contracted for target to target live scoring for all pro shooters top to bottom, not just the top five.

It may look a little low budget now but I can assure you it will have the support of the manufacturers.... and it will be great soon. Great possibility this will all be in place for Illinois ASA.

Brandon


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## destroyerb784 (Dec 21, 2011)

Well guys how are the shoot coverage videos and updated results from the shoots working for ya. If someone else is going to do his job why have they not before. This sucks, I enjoyed and looked forward to the shoot coverage.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Can't wait to see the new stuff.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Pro ARCHERS. The live scoring goes way beyond bj has ever done and it initially will cover all pro classes. 40 tablets have been purchased with cellular data and an app also has been contracted for target to target live scoring for all pro shooters top to bottom, not just the top five.
> 
> It may look a little low budget now but I can assure you it will have the support of the manufacturers.... and it will be great soon. Great possibility this will all be in place for Illinois ASA.
> 
> Brandon


Sounds great thanks for the update they are on the right path. One question 40 tablets are you leaving one group out? I have heard one group is kind of grumpy about reporting scores? )


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

Just plain stupid.. Yep pretty much sums it up. 
None of this surprises me in the least. 





tmorelli said:


> Why on earth would BJ drop a sponsor's logos and links before the contract expiration? Why do a review for a competiting vendor before contract expiration?
> 
> This strikes me a just plain stupid. But, it directly aligns with the rumor I've heard about Hoyt's reasoning too.


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

Sounds like bowjunky will still be at the tournaments. He will just be doing videos for everyone and not just pros.


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## zekezoe (Dec 3, 2007)

Bring back bowjunky


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## Outback Man (Nov 21, 2009)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Pro ARCHERS.
> 
> Brandon


If it's the pros themselves doing it then do we go to what some have been concerned with and that BJ ended up kind of doing...infomercials? I can see it now...coverage of the pro shooting at the stake...then the GoPro on the target...he releases...hits a 12...turns around and says "that's why I shoot a blah"...

Was hoping it was gonna be done by someone more independent...maybe like a Lancaster Archery or someone like that...but I guess anything is better than what we have now, which is apparently nothing.


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## ClintR (Apr 20, 2012)

Outback Man said:


> If it's the pros themselves doing it then do we go to what some have been concerned with and that BJ ended up kind of doing...infomercials? I can see it now...coverage of the pro shooting at the stake...then the GoPro on the target...he releases...hits a 12...turns around and says "that's why I shoot a blah"...
> 
> Was hoping it was gonna be done by someone more independent...maybe like a Lancaster Archery or someone like that...but I guess anything is better than what we have now, which is apparently nothing.


The info-mercials get annoying. Why I can't tolerate Nascar anymore.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

Outback Man said:


> If it's the pros themselves doing it then do we go to what some have been concerned with


Not quite the same thing, but several years ago the professional dart players in Europe broke from the organization at the time (BDO) and formed their own organization (PDC) and based it around promoting the sport and had a solid marketing firm partnered with them. You may be laughing right about now, but in the UK, the have dart tournaments where thousands of people sit in an arena to watch two middle aged guys toss darts at a board, complete with entry music, pyro and hot walk on girls. They also have a couple week long World Championship at the end of every year that does monster ratings and a first prize of 250,000 pounds. Heck, just qualifying for that tournament (64 entries) and loosing in the first round nets you 8000 pounds.

This is darts people. Given the way archery is bigger in Europe, there has got to be something they are doing that we American's can't quite figure out!

Of course with the darts, is it similar to Golf where you have to earn a PDC card at a qualifying school or finish in the top X the previous year, or something similar. You don't just pay a fee and BOOM, you are a pro.

To give you an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG5tvJQBTAk


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## ClintR (Apr 20, 2012)

I will add this too.....and maybe this is the wrong place 

But I know nothing about competitive archery. I tried following Bowjunky because I'm interested in the tournaments.....but to be honest....I don't follow the scoring lingo. I tried asking questions about the scoring on their facebook page but never got a clear answer. I think it would be good for the sport to try to educate new "viewers". I've been bowhunting for 20+ years and I love archery....but I need a little help/push getting me to follow the Pros


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## Pete53 (Dec 5, 2011)

i too have no dog in this fight,but i kinda liked bowjunky and wish that he can solve his problems, archery has little coverage now and if bowjunky is gone then archery has even less. look at this winter 2014-2015 the NFFA nationals > nothing in my state paper,nothing on TV or cable and nothing i could get on the computer to watch either just the standings ,now that is sad. bowjunky might have some problems but on a whole archery has alot of problems and none of it helps the youth our future in archery. i remember when i was young our twin city paper use to publish some things about archery back in 1960`s i remember my dad showing me front page news Jim Poen greatest indoor target archer in the world,with his recurve bow he shot 300`s,no peep,with fingers and now nothing ever in the paper and its 2015. so i guess now archery is no news , archery need`s a new Fred Bear ???


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## RickyM (Mar 6, 2006)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Pro ARCHERS. The live scoring goes way beyond bj has ever done and it initially will cover all pro classes. 40 tablets have been purchased with cellular data and an app also has been contracted for target to target live scoring for all pro shooters top to bottom, not just the top five.
> 
> It may look a little low budget now but I can assure you it will have the support of the manufacturers.... and it will be great soon. Great possibility this will all be in place for Illinois ASA.
> 
> Brandon


Sounds awesome Brandon!


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## gert26 (Jan 21, 2013)

Hope they figure it out


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> Pro ARCHERS. The live scoring goes way beyond bj has ever done and it initially will cover all pro classes. 40 tablets have been purchased with cellular data and an app also has been contracted for target to target live scoring for all pro shooters top to bottom, not just the top five.
> 
> It may look a little low budget now but I can assure you it will have the support of the manufacturers.... and it will be great soon. Great possibility this will all be in place for Illinois ASA.
> 
> Brandon


Hm. So the ASA will abandon Shooting Rule "J" and allow electronics to be used, and a software package that is already archery based is going to be used?

I know Ianseo and Rcherz (the two primary software packages used in archery) aren't part of this. 

-Steve


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

ThunderEagle said:


> This is darts people. Given the way archery is bigger in Europe, there has got to be something they are doing that we American's can't quite figure out!


Wrong , plain and simple wrong !

Differences in archery between th US and Europe , archery here in Europe is mainly olympic recurve archery .

Just an example , where i live , in France , we have somewhere around 60 thousand archers in the FITA associaton , called FFTA .

Last official numbers that i saw was around 12 thousand compound archers all together , but if you look at the national ranking lists , you can find around 400 in the senior male compound division competing in 3D only , that's all !

We don't have so many different associations , there's also IFAA/NFAA who has maybe 5 to 600 members , mainly traditional , and that's all .

Archery in Europe is FITA , FITA Indoor , FITA FIELD , 3D is nothing ( if you look at the numbers of shooters ) , and compound is way less than Olympic .

And that's the same all over Europe , Darts is way bigger , easier , cheaper , and way more fun to watch ....


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## JustJerry (Feb 8, 2011)

blakbelt said:


> Wow... after reading a couple of these threads, I never realized what a bunch of whiny, back-stabbing divas make up the "professional" archery world. To be honest, I would call out both sides of this entire situation as unprofessional. First off, BowJunky with their blabbering , woe is me, I'll take my toys and go home, diatribe. Completely unprofessional and uncalled for actually. It sounds way too personal, and not the way I would ever expect a "business" to be operated. Secondly, all these "professional" archers whining about K50 and contingencies and everything else. You know what, you are not executives in the sport of archery... you guys are the "athletes" that are paid to show up and shoot. Whoever runs the venue, league, event has every right to run their sport the way their governing body sees fit. If the archers don't like it, hit the road but shut up and be professionals about it.


Ding! Ding! Ding! Cha Ching we have a winner!


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

cenochs said:


> Will the electronic scoring be update target for target and will everyone be required to show score cards to keep scores up to date? It's fine to post scores but when they are after the round is over that is no different than getting them from the ASA website...


it will be target by target with an tablet that has cell service and each arrow will be scored the card way and tablet way.


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

Beastmaster said:


> Hm. So the ASA will abandon Shooting Rule "J" and allow electronics to be used, and a software package that is already archery based is going to be used?
> 
> I know Ianseo and Rcherz (the two primary software packages used in archery) aren't part of this.
> 
> -Steve


Archery Events will be app used.


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## T.R.U.PRO (Jan 3, 2007)

cenochs said:


> Sounds great thanks for the update they are on the right path. One question 40 tablets are you leaving one group out? I have heard one group is kind of grumpy about reporting scores? )


there are two ranges of twenty targets that are possible for the pros. if each stake is filled that would require 40 tablets for scoring, however, we have not filled two ranges for a while now so there will be extra in case of malfunction or breakage.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

T.R.U.PRO said:


> it will be target by target with an tablet that has cell service and each arrow will be scored the card way and tablet way.


Sounds very much like what we did at the LAS Classic.

With live scoring I'd now like to walk the Pro ranges and actually watch them competing! Ultimately having each target viewable for a "gallery" would be awesome. I know it would be a "long term" idea/project to create courses and lanes where at least a small gallery could watch each target. Much like how golf fans can watch the drives and the putts. The first place that has a viewing area at each target will hit a home run! 

Put the Pro course real close to the main vendor area and have them shoot when other archers (fans) can watch (be involved). I know this is a leap because at this time it seems just the opposite of what is being done with the Pro's competing on the courses furthest away and frequently when few "fans" can be there to watch.

I know creating a course having target lanes with viewing areas is a massive undertaking. But after live scoring that should be a goal.


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## clifflowe (Sep 29, 2007)

What is the possibility of getting video coverage similar to the European Pro Archery Series, where they cover the shooter and the target with fixed position video cameras. It doesn't appear to cover all targets. On the last day it seems the cameras are positioned to assure coverage of the last few targets for the top groups. 
Cliff


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

never understood why the pro ranges sometimes are the least accessible. Almost always the farthest away. They should be where the simms or practice range is which is generally fairly close.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

ClintRhodes said:


> I will add this too.....and maybe this is the wrong place
> 
> But I know nothing about competitive archery. I tried following Bowjunky because I'm interested in the tournaments.....but to be honest....I don't follow the scoring lingo. I tried asking questions about the scoring on their facebook page but never got a clear answer. I think it would be good for the sport to try to educate new "viewers". I've been bowhunting for 20+ years and I love archery....but I need a little help/push getting me to follow the Pros





Pete53 said:


> i too have no dog in this fight,but i kinda liked bowjunky and wish that he can solve his problems, archery has little coverage now and if bowjunky is gone then archery has even less. look at this winter 2014-2015 the NFFA nationals > nothing in my state paper,nothing on TV or cable and nothing i could get on the computer to watch either just the standings ,now that is sad. bowjunky might have some problems but on a whole archery has alot of problems and none of it helps the youth our future in archery. i remember when i was young our twin city paper use to publish some things about archery back in 1960`s i remember my dad showing me front page news Jim Poen greatest indoor target archer in the world,with his recurve bow he shot 300`s,no peep,with fingers and now nothing ever in the paper and its 2015. so i guess now archery is no news , archery need`s a new Fred Bear ???


Check out the videos from arcHERS - these ladies seem to have it figured out - they take a few moments and explain whats happening. Their videos and editing are top notch and quite honestly on par their first few videos as Jason was with BJ. I think there will be some direct correlation between them and Bowmen as there is some shared interest there.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

The only issue I have with the live pro scoring - is we all will be on our cells on the other ranges checking updates.

Its already happening now, say what you want about the rules or anything else but look up and down any amateur range sunday morning - or Saturday for that matter. You will see a group of guys huddled around a phone from time to time. They are either showing off deer pics/vids or looking at pro scoring


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

Garceau said:


> The only issue I have with the live pro scoring - is we all will be on our cells on the other ranges checking updates.
> 
> Its already happening now, say what you want about the rules or anything else but look up and down any amateur range sunday morning - or Saturday for that matter. You will see a group of guys huddled around a phone from time to time. They are either showing off deer pics/vids or looking at pro scoring


Yeah I can see a lot of guys doing that especially when it'll be a refresh on the phone and talk about it.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

IMHO he has done this to himself. After his actions toward me at Lancaster classic. I hope he never comes back


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

J Whittington said:


> IMHO he has done this to himself. After his actions toward me at Lancaster classic. I hope he never comes back


care to elaborate? just currious


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I for one would not be looking at Pro live scoring while I am competing. I find archery and competing at a particular moment of far greater interest than what others are doing. Now if I could track my family and buddies scores that would be different. I wouldn't be surprised if _many_ others that are at a shoot competing feel the same way. 

That's right I confess to being more into what myself and my archery "family" is doing than that of any other person at an ASA tournament including ANY pro. However, I'd definitely watch the video of the pro's later.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Excuse me for being naive...but why do the pros need to live scoring? Cant they nljust try and shoot the best they can every target like the rest of us peons do...


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Excuse me for being naive...but why do the pros need to live scoring? Cant they nljust try and shoot the best they can every target like the rest of us peons do...


I think this started when McCarthy ran away from the field at the classic a few years back when 14's were still in play. 
Then came the leader board so all could know what they had to do or not do.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

frog gigger said:


> I think this started when McCarthy ran away from the field at the classic a few years back when 14's were still in play.
> Then came the leader board so all could know what they had to do or not do.


Seems like its.... playing poker when everyones cards are showing, what fun would that be..


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## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Excuse me for being naive...but why do the pros need to live scoring? Cant they nljust try and shoot the best they can every target like the rest of us peons do...


Live scoring is really not for those who are shooting the tournament. Live scoring is more for those who are trying to be spectators either on site or at home.

Being blunt - if you don't have live scoring, then TV coverage won't come. Electronic leaderboards are what you need to expand viewership of a sport.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Live scoring is really not for those who are shooting the tournament. Live scoring is more for those who are trying to be spectators either on site or at home.
> 
> Being blunt - if you don't have live scoring, then TV coverage won't come. Electronic leaderboards are what you need to expand viewership of a sport.



Whats live scoring if you cant actually see them shoot....

like id want to sit in front of my laptop with archery events open just waiting for them to update after each target? Doesn't sound very intresting to me....

Now.set up cameras at each target...one right in front and one at stake and id be intrested.

Dont grt me wrong i get where your/everyones going with this. I myself cant be at every pro/am. But it would take.great akill and major network to produce it like golf...where some is live and some is what happened moments before. Etc etc....but i dont see it happening anytime in the near future....


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## BillyRay (Oct 16, 2003)

frog gigger said:


> I think this started when McCarthy ran away from the field at the classic a few years back when 14's were still in play.
> Then came the leader board so all could know what they had to do or not do.


To be honest, I can see the argument both ways on this one. I can see where the entire field knows where the leaders are and can adjust their strategy/aggressiveness with how far back they are from the leaders. But I also can understand going the opposite direction and making the shooters determine strategy without knowing where the rest of the field is.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

You have to have a leader board where everyone's score is posted. This lets keep a secret stuff is for people that are scared and nervous. What competitive sport that is played on a field or some type of outdoor arena that the scores are hidden ?


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## oxberger (Nov 18, 2008)

My 2 cents, without knowing the politics of the situations or how the payouts work, wouldn't it be an advantage to how as many people being in a "pro" division as possible? The more people you have the higher the payout. Why would you want to restrict the number of people? Like any kind of tournament, the more people or teams the more $ there is to pay out. As long as there is room and time.

Does it really matter if it is a known distance or judging? Isn't it about winning a tournament and making money? 

Why not have separate tournaments for known distances on different weekends and new locations? See which one draws more people and more importantly bring in more money. That will tell you which direction to go in, follow the money.

Either start growing the sport and involving more people, or stay with the status quo. But if it is the status quo, one can't complain about not having enough money to go around.

Right now the center of the archery universe is in the southeast, but there are places outside the footprint where there is money to be had. Look at Redding, Bowcast at the Bird and R100, a lot of people go to those events. Try one tournament in a non-traditional area and see what happens, look at those places like Redding, Bowcast and R100 and see what the turnouts were and give it a try. You'll never grow if a chance isn't taken. 

The biggest problem of all is people are unwilling to open up to new ways of thinking or doing things, change typically scares people into not doing anything. You can only go to the next level by taking the next step. 

And if all else fails, if people really want a known distance pro division and the ASA or IBO won't have one, then start your own organization just for that and bring in new sponsors with new money.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

cenochs said:


> You have to have a leader board where everyone's score is posted. This lets keep a secret stuff is for people that are scared and nervous. What competitive sport that is played on a field or some type of outdoor arena that the scores are hidden ?



Well if thats the case...they need to do that for all the classses....what sport does it for only "pro" and not amature or lower levels..?

Secret? Why not shoot as good as you can.and let the cards fall at the end...isnt that what the rest of us have to do?


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

cenochs said:


> You have to have a leader board where everyone's score is posted. This lets keep a secret stuff is for people that are scared and nervous. What competitive sport that is played on a field or some type of outdoor arena that the scores are hidden ?


If you were bidding for a contract job, would you show the competitors your bid before submitting it?


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## cbmac (May 24, 2006)

Garceau said:


> Check out the videos from arcHERS - these ladies seem to have it figured out - they take a few moments and explain whats happening. Their videos and editing are top notch and quite honestly on par their first few videos as Jason was with BJ. I think there will be some direct correlation between them and Bowmen as there is some shared interest there.


Not finding "arcHERS"... Do you have a link?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Facebook ....


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

frog gigger said:


> If you were bidding for a contract job, would you show the competitors your bid before submitting it?


Not a sport


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I hope there is a plan that doesn't involve Cell service for Ft Benning!!!!!!!!!!!!

I seem to recall cell service being sketchy in parts of the Metropolis site also.....


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

BowHuntnKY said:


> Well if thats the case...they need to do that for all the classses....what sport does it for only "pro" and not amature or lower levels..?
> 
> Secret? Why not shoot as good as you can.and let the cards fall at the end...isnt that what the rest of us have to do?


Well it's called baby steps and the Pros are going to be first and see how things work. Without evening knowing it you just showed how behind the times 3D Archery has become. The sport should have had electronic scoring years ago and scores on all ranges should have been posted years ago. The faster solution for the Amateurs would be to post the highest score for the group instead of everybody's score to start with.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Who going to teach the old guys how it works. Lol


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## frog gigger (May 4, 2007)

cenochs said:


> Not a sport


Not much difference, it's all about the $$ and who can beat the competition.


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## QuickKen (Mar 22, 2009)

I know how you feel. When I started archery, a lot of things were not clear for me as well. When I created a Web page for our archery club. http://www.mosquitobowmen.com I created a links section with videos I found on the net on how to score. Found one with Cara on the 3D target.


ClintRhodes said:


> I will add this too.....and maybe this is the wrong place
> 
> But I know nothing about competitive archery. I tried following Bowjunky because I'm interested in the tournaments.....but to be honest....I don't follow the scoring lingo. I tried asking questions about the scoring on their facebook page but never got a clear answer. I think it would be good for the sport to try to educate new "viewers". I've been bowhunting for 20+ years and I love archery....but I need a little help/push getting me to follow the Pros


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## KimberTac1911 (Feb 27, 2012)

thare1774 said:


> If the things he says in that email are true then I sympathize. Nobody has done what Bowjunky does and nobody will step in and do it as well if Bowjunky decides to quit. It seems like the pros take themselves way too seriously and dont see the benefits of free publicity. If I was an ASA pro I would be as nice as possible to Bowjunky simply for the exposure. Bowjunky coverage can and does bring pros into the spotlight, youd be a fool not to ride it out as long as possible.


Part of it i believe. I use to play professional paintball. Guns gor thrown, fights broke out and so on. Add competition, testosterone and money: this is going to happen


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## Finq (Jul 12, 2009)

cbmac said:


> Not finding "arcHERS"... Do you have a link?


That is easily the dumbest name I have seen in the last couple of years. 
I get it, arcHERS. 

But they clearly didn't think about it for one more second after high fiving each other for that brilliant idea. 

How are you supposed to find them?



As far as the topic is concerned, Jason has always struck me as fake and weird. I'm actually surprised he kept it running for as long as he did, and apparently still does to a certain degree. There has been almost zero content since Fitzie left, it all became a giant advertising pillar for the "best brands" in the industry, most of which switched every couple of months or so.


Maybe because I don't live in the US, but whenever someone is that adamant and pushy about their religion, my fake-o-meter starts flashing and hooting. 
I won't judge anyone for past drug abuse, we all have our demons and issues to deal with, but ...
turns out the die hard christian is a thief.

Eerily reminiscent of a certain person being caught with a male prostitute and a bag of crack after praying the gay away.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

Finq said:


> That is easily the dumbest name I have seen in the last couple of years.
> I get it, arcHERS.
> 
> But they clearly didn't think about it for one more second after high fiving each other for that brilliant idea.
> ...



So you now belittle the name "arcHERS" and Jason? When do we get to watch what you do to support and show archery to the masses? So damn easy now a days with social media to armchair quarterback but if you can't do any better, I really don't think its classy to bash those that attempt to grow our sport. I think the name arcHERS is clever and showcases the talents our female archers have. Guess they should have cleared the name by you before the high fives. 

As for Jason's past, we all have skeletons. I applaud how he has turned his life around. Easy to kick a man when he may be down, but its the better man that helps them up! 

I hope Bowjunky continues to thrive and this hiccup is just that and we will continue to get great coverage.


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## Finq (Jul 12, 2009)

The "armchair quarterback" argument is a mute point, if everyone were only allowed to criticize what they have already done better themselves, almost every discussion on here would shut down. 
I simply stated my opinion about Jason and Bowjunky. They hardly grew the sport since Fitzie left, the content quality dropped massively and the output almost froze completely, meanwhile the advertisement machine on social media kept rolling. There comes a point at which you have to stop to rest on your laurels and get back to producing quality entertainment. For your sponsors and for yourself, if you want to be the "ESPN of archery". 
The fact that nobody else covers archery (not even true, World Archery TV and Pro Archery Series have TV quality coverage of high class events and had so for years) and that I can't (or am not) do it better does not exempt Bowjunky from criticism. 

As far as the name, I don't think it's clever. I like the logo and I think the logo is clever and cool. But they literally named their brand Archers. They are impossible to find. At the very least, they need a very distinct headline that people can remember and punch into search engines once they get home. 
What would be the quickest way to get info about ArcHERS? 
I would probably click through facebook pages until ArcHERS shows up as a Group, Friend, whatever. Try again to convince me that's clever...


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

I've been away from competitive archery for about 15 years, so prior to reading this topic, my only knowledge of Bow Junky was from the Bow Junky Youtube channel. IMO, it would be pretty difficult for an objective person to say the exposure BJ gave to archery was not overwhelmingly positive for the sport (tournament coverage / WTPS interviews, etc.) It's a shame that personal differences and politics related to Bow Junky (the person) were not kept apart from Bow Junky (the entity). Just to be clear, both sides appear guilty of ruining a good thing because neither side could keep their politics to themselves. 

$0.02


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## BillyRay (Oct 16, 2003)

Any info on why Fitzie left?? No doubt the content was MUCH better when he was involved.


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## 60xar (Mar 30, 2006)

BowJunky died the minute Fitzy left in my opinion. I have personal mutual friends of his and it sounds like he will never be back. I dont doubt that either after personally being threatened by people after talking about it. If someone could come back with something the way they were the first year and keep it that way it would be amazing. Really nothing has happened at all since Fitzy left and I doubt it will unless someone else does it.


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## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

Finq said:


> The "armchair quarterback" argument is a mute point, if everyone were only allowed to criticize what they have already done better themselves, almost every discussion on here would shut down.
> I simply stated my opinion about Jason and Bowjunky. They hardly grew the sport since Fitzie left, the content quality dropped massively and the output almost froze completely, meanwhile the advertisement machine on social media kept rolling. There comes a point at which you have to stop to rest on your laurels and get back to producing quality entertainment. For your sponsors and for yourself, if you want to be the "ESPN of archery".
> The fact that nobody else covers archery (not even true, World Archery TV and Pro Archery Series have TV quality coverage of high class events and had so for years) and that I can't (or am not) do it better does not exempt Bowjunky from criticism.
> 
> ...


I'm got solid Google game and I can't find them, I've tried every variation I can think of in Google and Facebook


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/arcHER/1437957276502798
Link to ArcHER facebook account.. Google ArcHER women's pro archery


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## BillyRay (Oct 16, 2003)

tackscall said:


> I'm got solid Google game and I can't find them,





hrtlnd164 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/pages/arcHER/1437957276502798
> Link to ArcHER facebook account.. *Google ArcHER women's pro archery*


Looks like someone's got better "Google Game", and the other's Google Game isn't as solid as he thinks....haha :tongue:


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## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

The name is clever enough, but to have an actual web presence, they're going to need something more distinguishable and searchable than just capitalizing some of the letters in a very common word.

I don't care much for Facebook .... this appears to be their website http://womenarchers.com/


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## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

BillyRay said:


> Looks like someone's got better "Google Game", and the other's Google Game isn't as solid as he thinks....haha :tongue:


Clearly! That is a bad name for Facebook though, it needs more to be search friendly


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## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

"I'm got solid Google game" should have been your first clue lol


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