# riser length important or over all bow length for draw length?



## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

I have some questions about riser selection (length) and sights


just what exactly are the riser lengths for?



some background info: 


Been shooting a year, but only 5 months olympic. 

I'm learning by hanging out with my friend (he is in a archery class) in his archery class and helping watch / babysit the JOAD class and listen to the coaches teach there. 

RH and my Draw length is 27"


End goal: just want some insight on a riser for a new bow. I'm of the school of buying something that will last. I'm 
not really in a hurry to upgrade but my current bow is borrowed and the expiration date could be looming in the 
future. It's a 62" takedown with a die cast metal riser with 25 lbs draw weight and bolt on limbs. The limbs say razorback with a boar, and the riser is just a blue color. 



I did a search here and on the archery exchange and found out the UK site answer (read on to find out what that is) generally was it. 




In the class (its mainly hunter recurve people and a few olympic) I asked some information about risers. But the 
assistant coaches (for the JOAD class) said I was too new to worry, but with my draw, he said 25" or 27" would work. 
And the hard part is finding what limbs will work (he said try short or med). I tried to pin him down but he said, 

'I'd have to shoot a bow with either riser length and choose based on feel.'

The main coaches is are on vacation for a few weeks so I'll get their answer later. 


So I asked around in the class: 

One older guy who owns everything (howard hill bow, some compound, and a win win rig) said riser depends on draw 
length, and he said small dudes / women with under 24" draw get 23" riser, that the average draw length is 24-26 so 
they get 25" or 26" risers and 27-28" draw get 27" riser. And for the longer draw lengths above 30, they get custom ones, so for children use the youth bows. He said for me to get a 27" cuz my draw length will go up an inch if I'm practicing right. 


Then this other guy said its the whole bow length that counts (rise and limbs), I can find charts online for that and and riser length is mainly for looks. 


Another girl said the riser length is for the sight because people all hold the bow differently, so their field of vision is different. She said the longer risers account for difference's in field of vision (some have longer vertical etc). 

This one guy said riser length doesn't matter but brand, because a 'weaksauce riser any length sucks' but said overall bow length is key for draw lengths. 


Then I found out this from the reference pdf on some UK site.

Long handle, short limbs = Faster, more tendency to stacking, less stable.
Short handle, long limbs = Slower, more stable, less stacking.


(I take it that stacking is reaching max draw weight / limit of limb stretch)

So are they all right to some degree, are some wrong? Or will I have to 'just trying it out?' The problem is the local archery stores all have the 23" wooden or metal beginner ones. They don't have any other length to test. But they have the compound in all sizes and shapes. 

But if I wanted compound I'd just use a gun or a crossbow :teeth:




Also anyone use carbon vs the metal risers? The assistance JOAD coach said carbon dampens everything and is the most stable, but after a few years it stresses out, and they are lighter. He said metal risers are good if they are 
forged / done right and last for years but for twitchy people really mess up on them and they are heavier. 







Also a question on sights: 

Anyone use both shibuya ultima and sureloc contender or quest x and can articulate some differences between each? 

Thanks ahead of time.


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

A larger riser is for people with long draw lengths like 30 inches and above. You don't have to use one though. I know a guy who has a 32 inch draw and he uses a 25 inch riser instead of the larger 27. It's kind of a personal thing on how you like your bow to react on the shot and stability, smoothness, bla bla bla bla bla you get the idea


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

With your DL you will not go wrong with a 25" riser and medium limbs. By the time you have enough experience to decide if you want to try something different it will likely be time for an upgrade anyway.
The most important thing is to make sure they are ILF and don't spend too much on the limbs. A SF Pro Forged riser and Axiom limbs would be a solid bet.

-Grant


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

arrowyn said:


> I have some questions about riser selection (length) and sights
> 
> 
> just what exactly are the riser lengths for?
> ...


Hoyt / Easton's designer George Tekmitchov has been on this forum a few times extolling the virtues of his 27 inch Formula ION riser / short limbs setup.

I chose 27 inch long HPX riser / medium Border limbs over standard riser / long limbs because I wanted the bow to be just a little bit faster so I could use lighter draw weight.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

I am glad you ask this question since I have been reading a lot and know very little. I touched my first bow about a year ago. 

Somewhere on this forum I saw a good description of stacking. Basically it is where the bow goes non linear, the recurve limbs stop acting like springs and just start to bend unnaturally. This happens to all bow at some draw, but not until the rated draw, 28 inches, has been exceeded. Since my draw is less than 27 inches, it is not really possible for me to hit the stack point. Sort of a non issue for me and I quit paying attention to it.

Almost everything I have read says that a longer bow is more desirable that shorter, but no one has explained why. There is some talk of finger pinch due to string angle but the engineer in me did some geometry and the difference in the angle between a 58 inch bow and a 68 inch bow is minimal. 

I currently own 3 bows, all one piece recurves. One is 58 inches, the next is 60 inches, and the third is 68 inches. Since you ask about riser, I wondered how one piece bows stacked up. The 58 inch bow has about a 14 inch riser, the remainder is limbs. 

The 60 inch bow has about a 16 inch riser. Apparently the entire difference in length is just the riser. They have almost the same length limbs.

And finally, the 68 inch bow has a 21 inch riser. So it's limbs are 3 inches longer, about 1 1/2 inches each, although the limbs on all three are not symmetrical. 

And to be honest, I shoot them all about the same. Longer for me doesn't have any magical properties. But then again I basically have one size limbs. Mostly the same draw weight too.

Good luck.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

You really can't compare a 1-piece wood bow with an ILF target bow.
But if you did it would be necessary to include the limb-butts of the limbs in the riser length, which would make the "riser" of you're normal 25" ILF bow somewhere around 28-29".

Riser and limb length definitely makes a large difference when you are talking target work. But for someone drawing 27-29" there really isn't a reason to go with something besides medium limbs and a 25" riser. Perhaps if you really needed to shoot to absolute minimum poundage and still make a distance it would be beneficial to shoot a 27" riser and shorts (or extra-short Border Hex6 apparently). But that is getting into a problem which can generally be solved with faster limbs and lighter arrows.

-Grant


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## darracuda (Jul 31, 2012)

Riser length affects a few things, Over all bow length, speed, smoothness/forgiveness, sight window.

from the top, riser + limbs = over all length. what most people aim for when building a bow for them, is to use a riser that when paired with medium limbs = the bow length they want. This is mainly due to 2 reasons. Medium limbs is a good middle ground to start, and they seem to be the easiest limb to buy/sell used. so:: 21" riser +medium limbs 64" bow, 23" riser + med limbs=66" bow, 25" riser+med limbs =68" bow, 27" riser +med limbs = 70" bow. This will get you middle ground, kinda balanced if you will.. of speed,smoothness.

Speed: shorter limbs snap forward faster. just like a small spring releases its energy faster than a long spring. Should you desire more speed, going UP 1 riser size and down 1 limb size will make the same size bow as above but faster. also less forgiving/smooth on draw.
ie: 25" riser + short limbs = 66" bow

smoothness/forgiveness: you go the opposite of speed setup. Down 1 riser size and up 1 limb size. will make a smoother more forgiving bow.
ie : 25" riser + long limbs = 70" bow

Sight window: as you increase draw weight and speed, your sight will need to be raised up. Which can be an issue with High poundage/ small risers bows at short distances. longer risers give you more room to move sight up with out being hidden behind the riser at full draw.

There are also extra short limbs, and extra long limbs. Both are usually custom orders and used by people that have shot for quiet some time and know exactly what they are looking for in a bow.
Like the recent thread about the 27" riser and extra short limbs making a very fast 66" bow, but a very hard bow to control for a beginner.


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

In the beginning most adult sized people start with a 23" or 25" riser. Over time as your form improves you will have an idea of what you want to " upgrade ".

with a 27" draw, id suggest a 25" with medium limbs. with proper training you will more than likely expand your draw over time. a 28" draw can use 66", 68", or 70" bow it really comes down to personal preferences, and how the bow feels to you.

Metal riser vs Carbon riser... again, personal preference thing. I do really like the way the Inno cxt carbon riser feels during/after a shot. will you? who knows.... All i can say is try before you buy.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

grantmac said:


> You really can't compare a 1-piece wood bow with an ILF target bow.
> 
> -Grant


Of course you cannot compare the two different bows, although the end result of what they do is very similar. And of course there is a lot of arbitration in determining what to measure on a one piece bow for the riser. The riser and limbs sort of flow into each other. Maybe it is better to refer to the center section as the handle. 

Anyway, the original question had sparked my imagination and I wondered how one piece bows relate.

Darracuda has shed some light on this I think.

"Riser length affects a few things, Over all bow length, speed, smoothness/forgiveness, sight window.

from the top, riser + limbs = over all length. what most people aim for when building a bow for them, is to use a riser that when paired with medium limbs = the bow length they want. This is mainly due to 2 reasons. Medium limbs is a good middle ground to start, and they seem to be the easiest limb to buy/sell used. so:: 21" riser +medium limbs 64" bow, 23" riser + med limbs=66" bow, 25" riser+med limbs =68" bow, 27" riser +med limbs = 70" bow. This will get you middle ground, kinda balanced if you will.. of speed,smoothness.

Speed: shorter limbs snap forward faster. just like a small spring releases its energy faster than a long spring. Should you desire more speed, going UP 1 riser size and down 1 limb size will make the same size bow as above but faster. also less forgiving/smooth on draw.
ie: 25" riser + short limbs = 66" bow

smoothness/forgiveness: you go the opposite of speed setup. Down 1 riser size and up 1 limb size. will make a smoother more forgiving bow.
ie : 25" riser + long limbs = 70" bow"

It seems that the average is medium limbs on handles of different length. At least for the 58 and 60 inch bows. Since the difference between his bow example with a medium limb and a long limb is about 2 inches, then that explains sort of what happened with my 68 inch bow. It is a sort of average handle with long limbs. That may describe its performance also, since it seems like it throws the arrow slower. No measurements have been taken but the shorter bows seem faster, with the same arrows, and same draw weight.

I do not have the experience to rate smoothness and none of them seem to forgive my errors. 

Anyway, it makes sense that the one piece bows would basically be middle of the road things made to sell the most. And it makes sense for a person starting on the ILF track to make a middle of the road choice for riser and limb length. I have certainly come to understand this better. Thanks everyone.

The sight window is obvious to me. If you are going to put a sight on it, then you need as much adjustment as you can get to go long range. More sight window is better.

I hope that the original poster got as much information out of this discussion as I did.


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## Scott G. (Jul 27, 2005)

This has been very informative. Does the combination of a 25" riser and medium limbs have a max draw length that makes sense before going to long limbs or a 27" riser? For example I draw about 29.5"ish. But I'm new to target archery and working on consistency. Right now I'm shooting a 21" excel and medium #38 winex but considering a longer riser. Thx. Hope I didn't hijack the thread. Scott


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Scott G. said:


> This has been very informative. Does the combination of a 25" riser and medium limbs have a max draw length that makes sense before going to long limbs or a 27" riser? For example I draw about 29.5"ish. But I'm new to target archery and working on consistency. Right now I'm shooting a 21" excel and medium #38 winex but considering a longer riser. Thx. Hope I didn't hijack the thread. Scott


Going to a 25" riser would be beneficial. Long limbs might eventually be a good idea too, but not essential.

-Grant


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

Arrowyn. In his book "Shooting the Stickbook", Anthony Camera (Viper 1 on these forums) has a chart that is very useful in selecting the proper overall AMO bow length. It is related to your draw length. From this chart, with your draw length of 27" you want an overall AMO bow length of 66". This can be achieved by using a 23" riser and medium length limbs, or a 25" riser with short limbs. 

Scott G. From that same chart, at 29.5" draw length, it is recommended that you get a bow length of 70", achievable with a 25" riser and long limbs. 

Regards gents. Larry


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## Scott G. (Jul 27, 2005)

Thanks Grant and Larry. This is very helpful. Scott


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## arrowyn (Jul 4, 2013)

Wow . . . thanks. 

Someone told me learning archery is like climbing a mountain that never ends . . . I mean its probably the same for all sports / arts / discipline, but archery you can see it much faster than others.

Geez, thanks for all the info. I'm floored. 


So I'll go with a 25" riser . . . metal . . . I was on archery TV and saw they had 25" and can shoot them out from 90 meters. Another thing was they switch the class for some outdoor action and this place had 20-100 yard bales. I found out the riser I was using, the sight aperture disappeared into the riser at longer ranges I adjusted the sight. 

Someone helped me adjust the elevation bar but seems there's a limit, as at longer distances (60 yards) its so low the feathers would hit the aperture. They said it was design, and someone had a more expensive set up with the stabilizers and when I held it (and set it so I can use it) at the 60 yards the sight wasn't close to the riser. 

Also thanks for the info for shooting the stick bow . . . I put it on my to do reading list (but already have to read USA archery, then the inside the archer, then the archery by coach kim hyung tak).


Thanks for answering the question, I got what I came for and its awesome others got something too.


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