# Bow String Importance



## Dale Weiss (Nov 4, 2004)

I just changed bow strings and noticed a slight change in my bows performance (this is a 70" fita recurve). I was just wondering if anyone has done any experimenting/research on just how important the bow string is in relations to bow performance and accuracy? Thanks


----------



## VinZ (Apr 30, 2007)

That is an easy one: bowstring is very important. More weight on the string will slow it down. More serving will slow it down, an extra strand of fastflight will also slow it down (also more weight). But making an extremely thin string makes tuning very critical and you can go beyond a point where it becomes untunable. Pre-tention is also important. Making a good string is an art as much as science.


----------



## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

If you're serious about this stuff, when you change bow strings you should probably re-tune. At least verify the tune with a bare shaft or two.

Dave


----------



## tacoben (Jun 24, 2004)

I'm very interested in this thread topic since I just placed an order through Lancaster and was recommended to try halo. I've been using dacron solely on my Hoyt GM. What should I expect (performance wise) with the move up to Halo?

Thanks.


----------



## VinZ (Apr 30, 2007)

Halo serving is spectra (BCY sales name same as Kevlar from Dupont). Has no creep or stretch. Dacron (or B50) has stretch and is softer for the limbs and bow but it sacrificies performance for it. All modern bows (that probably includes your GM) and limbs can handle Dyneema(fastflight).


----------



## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

Strings effect performance greatly. With that said the old rule of thumb that a thinner (lighter) string will be faster is not necessarily true. I have found that often a heavier string will be quieter and faster through the chrono.

Just from my personal experience, I've found that a 24 strand 452x string is up to 7 fps faster than a 16 or 18 strand 8125 string. I've also shot all my personal best scores with that string. Every time I try to go to a lighter string and/or a lighter material, my scores drop unexplicably. The tune is very similar and requires only a 1/2 turn of the button or so, yet the groups always open up at the longer distances for me.

Trying to gain speed by going with a lighter string is almost aways counter productive in my experience. I've heard rumors that one of the top 3 shooters in the Olympic trials is shooting a 22 strand 8125 string. I'd be interested to see what the largest strings are that people have tried.

Cheers,
Pete


----------



## Targetbutt (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi Pete, 

what kind of nock are you using with that thick string?


----------



## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

c3hammer said:


> Strings effect performance greatly. With that said the old rule of thumb that a thinner (lighter) string will be faster is not necessarily true. I have found that often a heavier string will be quieter and faster through the chrono.
> 
> Just from my personal experience, I've found that a 24 strand 452x string is up to 7 fps faster than a 16 or 18 strand 8125 string. I've also shot all my personal best scores with that string. Every time I try to go to a lighter string and/or a lighter material, my scores drop unexplicably. The tune is very similar and requires only a 1/2 turn of the button or so, yet the groups always open up at the longer distances for me.
> 
> ...



Fattest strings I've used were 18 strand fastflight, sure makes the bow quiet, along with 2 brass nocksets. Got some really weak arrows to tune right up with that string too. 

I also tried a 18 strand 8125 string with 0.19 halo, worked good with the big McKinney nocks. The tune was not very much different from 16 strands in terms of plunger tension. 

I haven't group tested a heavy string vs a light string. I may have to give that a go some day...

Larry


----------



## Sky Warrior (Dec 12, 2004)

My new Elite Fire comes with 24 stands of 452 and Kevin recommends nothing less. I think C3Hammer and Elite are on to something.


----------



## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

aside from all the previous comments let's not forget the effects of getting the brace height as optimum as possible....unfortunately this is easier said than done and requires trial and error......


----------



## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

VinZ said:


> Halo serving is spectra (BCY sales name same as Kevlar from Dupont). Has no creep or stretch. Dacron (or B50) has stretch and is softer for the limbs and bow but it sacrificies performance for it. All modern bows (that probably includes your GM) and limbs can handle Dyneema(fastflight).


Sorry Vin, but Spectra (UHMWPE) is different than Kevlar.









That (in a chain of at least 100,000 units long for each molecule) is "ultra high molecular weight polyethylene." They Honeywell process makes their fiber that they call Spectra, and DSM makes the same thing (but with a different process) and calls it Dyneema. Fastflight is also a high molecular weight polyethylene.
It gains its strength from relatively weak bonds between molecules, but the number of bonds is so great (due to the size of each molecule), that the material is very strong in the end.


Kevlar, on the other hand, has smaller molecules, with stronger bonds between them. This, I believe, is what makes Kevlar more brittle than Spectra/Dyneema, because the bonds are easier to stress.








"Kevlar's molecular structure; BOLD: monomer unit; DASHED: hydrogen bonds."

If you're curious, this is what Dacron (polyethylene terephthalate) looks like









And this is Vectran, which is used as a mix for some other string materials-
Ok, I can't find a picture, but judging by the CAS number from one of their handouts I found, it is a polymer of 
2-Naphthalenecarboxylic Acid, 6- (Acetyloxy)-Polymer with 4-(Acetyloxy) Benzoic Acid
It's scary to think that with a couple minutes, I think I might even be able to draw that. . . Guess I do learn stuff at this here school thing. :wink:


So I synthesized nylon last week in lab. That was fun, I got one piece that was 1.05 metres long. I'm chemist-trying (urgh, bad pun).

-James


----------



## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

Targetbutt said:


> Hi Pete, what kind of nock are you using with that thick string?


I'm using Beiter X10 In/Out nocks with a Beiter nocking point. If I want to go with just serving, I use BCY #3D and it's a perfect fit with any of the large groove Easton, Gold Tip or Beiter nocks.

Cheers,
Pete


----------



## tacoben (Jun 24, 2004)

I just received my Halo strings from Lancaster. Can anyone tell me the longevity of Halo (or Angel Dyneema)? Would I need to wax it frequently or less than dacron? Also, I'm assuming Dynaflight is the same stuff as Dyneema?...but I noticed a slight price difference between the two. Thanks.


----------



## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

I am liking larger strings more and more. They are more stable, and much quieter. I shoot either 20 strand 8125, or 22 strand Giga S-1 with Halo serving. I am using McKinney pin nocks and the fit is very good. McKinny's are a bit larger than a large Easton groove, plus McKinnys are a little beefier and don't seem to crack like many of the pin nocks

Pete, I should get a lesson from you on Beiter nocking points. Every time I've tried them I end up with an ugly serving, and very frustrated.


----------



## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

st8arrow said:


> Pete, I should get a lesson from you on Beiter nocking points. Every time I've tried them I end up with an ugly serving, and very frustrated.


They can be a pain, but how they look really doesn't effect their performance. The key is to not put them on too tight. The other is to use the Beiter nocking points that have the threaded ends rather than the ones with just the t-shape.

Here's a pic of one of mine. It's a bit better than the average serving I've done on them


----------



## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

Wow Pete !!!

Mine never looked half that good. I found the same as you about the threaded type. The T ones are impossible! (at least for me)

Next time I set up a new string I'll have to give it another try, now that I see it is possible.


----------



## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Pete, do you fix the serving to the nocking point with super glue (or anything else), or do you just trust the serving to hang on by itself?

Have a currently serving-less string, a few Beiter nocking points, and a week's worth of vacation. Should be fun.


----------



## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> Pete, do you fix the serving to the nocking point with super glue (or anything else), or do you just trust the serving to hang on by itself?


I just wrap them on there. I over wrap the loose end about 3/16" past the end of the Beiter nocking point. I wrap the top the same direction as the string is twisted and the other side the opposite direction of the string twist. I do this so that if I have to add twists or take out twists to adjust brace height it doesn't twist the nock point in the middle. I then snug up the two loose ends at the same time before I cut and burn them. I've shot alot of arrows with them like this and have never had a problem in any way.

Cheers,
Pete


----------



## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Spiffy, sounds like a plan.
Thanks for the assistance


----------



## marianigp (May 1, 2006)

*Recurve or Compound*

Pete are you shooting recurve or compound?
I shoot recurve and haven't tried anything over 16 strand fast flight or Angel Majesty, but I did notice the string noise went up considerably when I switched to 14 strand 8125.


----------



## VinZ (Apr 30, 2007)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> Sorry Vin, but Spectra (UHMWPE) is different than Kevlar.


ooops. sorry. You're right:embara:. I will have to drink more coffee.
Spectra is like dyneema and fastflight (all polyethylene). I was writing from memory and got 2 brand names mixed up. Spectra/Dyneema/fastflight are all made from the same material but the way the molecules are made to orientated them to a direction is done in a different ways. The more the molecules are in the same direction and longer they are the stronger the material.

Kevlar (DuPond), Twaron (AKZO) or Vectran (BCY) are chemically the same. It is true that Kevlar is more brittle but has no creep or stretch. A Kevlar string will break on a recurve after a few 1000 shots at the nocking point. I've shot these decades ago and changed string every month.

Blends of Kevlar and Dyneema seam the way to go now. There is even a string material that must not be waxed (gigabow: http://www.gigabow.com). 
Different manufactures have different thickness and strengths. It's more a matter what works for your setup. Factory recommendations for 8125 is 18 strands, 452X 22 to 24 strands. This number also tells you something about the thickness of a single strand. Angel Majesty recommendation 16 to 20.


> do you fix the serving to the nocking point with super glue


Superglue on a string is not recommended because the glue becomes hard and brittle. There is a special glue to use on string, I believe it is named 'liquid lock'. But if done right you don't need it. Here is the instruction from Beiter website: http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/informations/datasheets/Nockzubehoer_GB.pdf.
Now I need my coffee


----------



## XCalibre (Aug 31, 2006)

Brandeis_Archer said:


> Sorry Vin, but Spectra (UHMWPE) is different than Kevlar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you are such a nerd.


----------



## Jurasic Archer (May 23, 2002)

*Strings*

I wrote and article on this that was in archery focus years back. I shot some video of it as well because it is really criticle. The lower the poundage and draw length, the more criticle it is. I am a string guy in every sense in that I make jigs that are the most reasonalble on the market. (to get people to make their own strings!) I don't even make much on them, I more or less just bring them to market. I make strings for people every week to whatever specs ( strands, color, material, servings) they want. And I test it all. Besides buying the right arrows for your bow, the second most important tuning issue is the string period. If you don't get the exact same material, length and number of strands as well as serving size, material and length, you must re-tune. I have never finished editing the video, but hope to some day. Especially the part about youth equpment. I can give a youngster that is struggling a whole hand full of points on their scorecard just by using a sting that tunes better for them. Think about that! 
That is the real reason the Jurassic Jig exists.


----------



## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

c3hammer said:


> They can be a pain, but how they look really doesn't effect their performance. The key is to not put them on too tight. The other is to use the Beiter nocking points that have the threaded ends rather than the ones with just the t-shape.
> 
> Here's a pic of one of mine. It's a bit better than the average serving I've done on them


Ok, so I did mine last night, and I gotta say, it turned out much better than I expected. And, I shot it today, and it didn't crack (yay!) so I must have served at the right tension.

EDIT- Oh, that is .014" Halo I used, it fit quite well into the grooves on the shoulders of the nock-point.

Also, my contribution to archery for posterity. Beiter suggests using a clip and a bit of elastic to hold the serving down to the string while you tie on, but I didn't have a spare one handy. So, I clamped down a brass nock point, but only halfway, so it makes a rather open C. So it grabs the string, but can pop on and off.

*side note before pictures* Does anyone use a (bow, fish, whatever) scale to set the tension on their serving jigs? Without having someone else there to show you the "right" tension for an application ("err, pull about this hard..."), I can imagine it being a bit ambiguous. Do Germans serve much tighter [and more precisely and efficiently, of course :wink:] than Americans, so they feel the need to preface with instructions to loosen up a bit? 
Or, does everyone else do this (by the numbers with a scale or weight), and I've just been ignorant of the practice? :wink:

OK, so here's the pictures, the silver one is on my other string, it's some XsWing tape covered with a dab of CA glue gel. I'm quite happy with it too, slightly adjustable.




























Is it just me, or are you reminded of those gigantic microscope photos where you see hair, skin, or a giant ant's head? You should see the last one full size!


----------



## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

XCalibre said:


> you are such a nerd.


One of your finest qualities, James!
(all my years of sailing, and using the Materials described in this thread before bowstrings were made from them (so it seems) for cordage, and the other day a very experienced yachtsman tried to tell me Kevlar and Spectra were the same thing:mg:, and yet did NOT understand the mistake. Ohhh man do I need to send him a link to this thread!).

So cool to see you got the Beiter Nocking point served on. Keep me posted how it works for you (very interested)! Usinig Beiter nocks soon and this has me very interested.
What is (for those that have used the beiter Nockpoint), if any, the speed difference of the string compared to say, small dental floss or serving nockstes (top and bottom).
Seems there would be some string speed loss, do you (james, or anyone using this nocking point system) notice a speed difference?

As an example, the difference between a masking tape/super glue gel (loc-tite gel) set of nocking points, and a Dental Floss nocking points (both top and bottom also Loc-Tite gel secured), for me was between 12-18" of height at 90 meters (about 40# DW). I was shocked (suppose anyone pulling more DW doesn't worry about it, but it makes a diff, the Dental Floss so much lighter and faster).
So, how would this Beiter compare speed wise?



tacoben said:


> I just received my Halo strings from Lancaster. Can anyone tell me the longevity of Halo (or Angel Dyneema)? Would I need to wax it frequently or less than dacron? Also, I'm assuming Dynaflight is the same stuff as Dyneema?...but I noticed a slight price difference between the two. Thanks.


tacoben,
I'm assuming you received an Angel Dyneema string with Halo servings? Angel Dyneema, is another variation of Dyneema (japan) that originally was intended NOT to be waxed, even though the package said it was waxed=ANYONE, please correct me if I'm wrong here).
The no wax needed was the benefit of keeping the string weight consistent, and yet, it is affected by the elements (as is everything I guess) and dries out, so I keep hearing about folks waxing it (suppose it's ok to do so, but not necessary). It's life span is shorter, due to this, but it's speed and softness of shot feel are what made it so desirable. 

Angle now makes (and has so for some time) a variation of Angel Dyneema, called Angel Majesty, this Dyneema goes through a resin bonding process of some sort (no way I can get molecular here.., but James can).
This you can feel as a residue on the string, it also is intended NOT to be waxed, but simply burnished briefly as if you were warming up a waxed string to rub it in.
Burnishing Angel Majesty string sucks the strings together real nice, due to the resin bonding process which also protects it much more from the elements. It's still fast, and just feels so good to shot when your Brace Height is right (barely hear it).
I've heard of users actually waxing this stuff too, I feel it's a mistake.
It does dry out over long periods of time (I just make a new string if it looks like that's happening, half a year to a year I suppose. Definitely longer than Angel Dyneema, though that is NOT a bad string either, expect it to be faster than a waxed Dyneema, just a bit, and if you were using dacron, it will be loads faster (expect some tuning adjustments)

Dynaflight 97, is 100% SK75 Dyneema (great, no, excellent stuff), but comes waxed and should be waxed (lightly) often for protection.

Halo for end servings, (I do not know of Halo Branded String Material from BCY, just the serving) is an Excellent serving material, BCY says it's the same characteristics as Majesty serving, but it is far less brittle, stronger and holds tighter much to the point it makes great compound string servings as well.

I think I've said enough, the Angel Dyneema's are more expensive to make, and yet they are nice and fast and have a unique soft feel to them for being so fast and consistent, weight wise, due to no wax (yep, no wax, apparently some consider waxing it anyway, so I would absolutely welcome the opinions of others, as well as the mistakes I may have made writing this so fast before work).:wink:


----------



## c3hammer (Sep 20, 2002)

You guys are going way over the top with all this. The difference in weight between a tied on nock point and a Beiter nocking point is about 1 grain. The difference between superglue thread and other types of tied on nock points is less than that. 

It doesn't cause any perceptible difference in inpact point even at 90m. You simply have the nock point lower with one versus the other to see a difference. On a chronograph, the Beiter nocking point is actually faster than the same diameter in some type of serving in my experience. Most importantly it is the most consistant nocking point you can use.

Cheers,
Pete


----------



## tacoben (Jun 24, 2004)

RaptorX said:


> tacoben,
> I'm assuming you received an Angel Dyneema string with Halo servings? Angel Dyneema, is another variation of Dyneema (japan) that originally was intended NOT to be waxed, even though the package said it was waxed=ANYONE, please correct me if I'm wrong here).


Thank you for your response. The zip lock package the strings came in noted "Made in Japan".


----------



## Brandeis_Archer (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, the Beiter nockpoint did appear to make the bareshaft go a touch weaker, so take that as you may. The two strings, aside from the center serving material (Majesty vs Halo) and nockpoint, are identical. I used 3D Super nocks for the (#2) Beiter nockpoint, and 19-1 Beiter nocks for the tape nockpoint. That said, the weight difference between servings and nocks may account for this. No chronograph to test the speed, but the other thing to consider might be the lighter release force from the string when using the Beiter. That would be just a fit issue.

The nockpoint is extremely light, barely able to feel it in my hand. The pictures don't give it justice to how small and delicate it looks and feels.

Brian, I have *NO* idea what they put in Majesty. Probably just a touch of cocaine, might explain why I feel an unnatural compulsion to shoot more.

How many strings did you try this dental floss vs tape comparison? Might it have just been from different string weights (exclusive of nockpoint), or different nock height? Not doubting you, just checking your experimental design =)


----------



## RaptorX (Dec 28, 2007)

c3hammer said:


> You guys are going way over the top with all this. The difference in weight between a tied on nock point and a Beiter nocking point is about 1 grain. The difference between superglue thread and other types of tied on nock points is less than that.
> 
> It doesn't cause any perceptible difference in inpact point even at 90m. You simply have the nock point lower with one versus the other to see a difference. On a chronograph, the Beiter nocking point is actually faster than the same diameter in some type of serving in my experience. Most importantly it is the most consistant nocking point you can use.
> 
> ...


Hey, all.
I think there's a misunderstanding (probably that woken by baby rushing to work thing).

Yes, it seems going over the top but that wasn't my intent, sorry.
Regarding the comparison I tried to make: 
The comparison was not between thread like materials and dental floss, or/and whether or not glued or not glued...
It was between the Bulky Masking Tape Glued Temporaries I had at the time, and the Serving or Dental floss permanents I would normally use. 
Didn't think there was much difference with the masking tape but knew it would be there, it just turned out more than I thought.
You see, I was too lazy to put on permanents before having a spontaneous chance to shoot as a guest at a Friend and Mentor's club that day.

Due to it's (the Masking Tape/Glue mass) nature, it (the string) acted as if I had not one, but two metal crimp on (rubber insert) nocksets, and just one of those are proven to make a difference in string speed.

To me, this is significant as well:
James just made a point, that the served in Beiter nockset isn't anywhere near the bulk and weight, that it may look like in pictures, and that's what prompted my question of speed (cause it looks that way in the pictures). 
I will take his word for it (and your's) that it is not significant, that's all I asked (could be faster). Sure looks, in pictures, that there would be a perceptible difference in speed.

For the record:
I use "Masking" tape as temporary nocksets when tuning a new string to pretty much just get nockpoint height correct. (long triangles so tapered, felt comfortable and prevented from rolling off before I'm done (easly to peel off and replace for adjustments and testing), heard some use this as their normal nockset soaked in glue to keep in place/sturdy, so one day, I decided to glue the temporaries as I liked where they were and wanted to just shoot that day, left them on like that, very foolishly). 
Normally, once I get the nock point hight correct, I then mark the string and remove the tape, and wrap on DF or Serving in place as permanent.

My comparison started that day when my friend, an excellent archer with massive experience, noticed I had my temporary "Masking Tape" glued on nocksets still on my string. (bigger, heavier, and different material all together I'd almost attribute to a dampening effect). He laughed and said I was loosing height with them (estimated 8", we were shooting at 90m).
I was, and it was more than what we thought. The next day I had my usual nocksets (small amounts of DF, glued), and although there are other variables about that day that could have contributed slightly, the difference was to great. Being a string maker, and doing the testing I've done for over 20 years regarding this subject, and knowing my friend was right when he said it...
I don't believe I got my nock height wrong.
And again, this is between bulky over glued masking tape clogs, and light weight dental floss nocksets (not much different than a little serving, I agree). Nice to know the Beiter doesn't slow the string down, and in fact james reports it may have sped it up a bit, so thanks.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------

