# dropping arm while aiming



## c.sitas

Dropping the arm can be tough to stop. Years ago I had this and what I done was to pound a stick in the ground. Keep it high enough so that you can just barely shoot over it.Stand so your wrist, right behind the bow handle, is in line with it. When you drop ,it hurts. You'll be working on this for a while, it is a variation of target panic in my book. Really what you have to do is follow through perfectly on the shot, mostly in your mind and mental setup.The stick just reminds you.


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## subconsciously

Focus on the spot - not the pin. Your worried more about where your pin is than aiming. There is consious aiming and subconscious aiming. Your subconsious will bring the pin back to center for you if you focus on the spot. If your focusing on pin your not letting your subconsciouos do its work.

clear as mud I hope.


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## AJ the TP Guru

Been there, done that. Another facet of target panic (which I profess to know a little about). Actually, it's a symptom many guys tell me they had when they first came to me.

And I'll tell you something else - I still find myself doing it from time to time. It's three things - gravity, muscle fatigue, and psychological. The first two will never go away, but the third can be cured, for the most part.


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## da white shoe

I had the same thing happen to me, too. It was my first indication that something was going horribly wrong! It took some doing, but I killed it in an epic battle that lasted over 2 years. That was 17 years ago. It hasn't been back since. 

An uncontrollable, falling sight picture is definately a form of target panic and it can get very nasty! There is no such thing as mild target panic... it all leads to something worse!

I will tell you what you *DO NOT *want to waste your time with.... don't even try to shoot your bow by begining your sight picture high and then timing your shot to when the pin falls to the target!!! That may help at first, but it will just make matters worse in the long run.

I believe that you are probably at the point of no return, my friend. I think you're going to have to learn to shoot a bow all over again, using a different method of aiming. Most people can do a pretty good job of shooting a bow using the "timing the trigger to the spot" method... at least for a while. I did it for years and I considered myself to be an above average shot. But, if you shoot that way long enough, chances are good that some kind of target panic will raise it's ugly head! It is very hard to avoid target panic when you are timing the release to the pin crossing the target. You have to understand that your mind is *always *going to be faster than your reflexes! Before long, you are concentrating on the pin so hard that you can't even control where it goes! I've been there, believe me!

Thank God, there is a better way! It's not hard to learn, but you will probably have to change everything you *think* you know about shooting a bow. Picture this...

If you had a deer rifle at the range, bench rested over sandbags and you were trying to hit a 3" spot at 300 yards, my guess is you would seldom, if ever hit it unless the shot took you by surprise. The minute you try to control the trigger on that rifle, that 3" spot is going to be pretty safe. Bows are a bit different, in that we can't bench them down to shoot. We have to physically hold the weight of the bowstring back at full draw, yet, at the same time we have to find a way for the bow to launch the arrow while introducing the least amount of influence on that shot with our muscles and minds. Your mind is always going to be faster than your reflexes. You have to remove your mind from the shot process altogether. The best way to eliminate human error when shooting a bow is by using correct form, a back tension shot and a surprise release.

You may already be doing some or most of this correctly, but I have included it because it all ties together to make for a good shot.

********** HOW TO SHOOT WITH BACK TENSION AND A SURPRISE RELEASE *********


.......................................THE GRIP..................................................
Before drawing the bow, position your hand on the grip and start pulling with your release hand to put pressure on the string. You are trying to find the exact spot for your bow hand to be in on the grip. You want to feel all of the pressure from the bow at one point on your bow hand when you're at full draw. Pretend there is a steel rod running parallel and exactly between the two bones in your forearm. Where that rod would exit your palm is where this point is. If you find this spot, it will help keep you from torquing the bow handle. A thin, vertical handle is best... less surface area for your hand to torque. Also, if you will rotate the bottom of your bow hand away from the bow a few degrees for your grip, you will clear a path for the bowstring and negate torque at the same time. Learn to find your grip before you draw the bow on every shot, but once you start your draw, *do not *move your *bow hand AT ALL.*
...........................................RELAXATION............................................
At full draw, your release hand as well as your bow hand, should be completely relaxed. You don't want to be grasping or squeezing the barrel of the release or the grip of your bow handle. Also, do not force either of your hands open. Your fingers should be hanging limp and relaxed. I lightly touch my first finger and my thumb together around the bow handle, but some people use a wrist sling. Use the bones in your arms and the muscles in your back to hold as much of the weight of the bow at full draw as you can. Relax every muscle in your arms that you don't need to use to stay at full draw. That goes for the muscles in your shoulders, torso and legs, too. Remember; tension in your muscles is what causes your sights to wobble and jump around. If you can learn to relax everything that isn't needed to hold at full draw, your sight pins will* barely even move*. It is very important that your bow is set at the correct draw length though. If it is too long or too short, you will have a very hard time relaxing fully.

..........................................BACK TENSION............................................
Next thing to work on is getting a surprise release. Learning this correctly, right from the start, is far easier with a back tension release. To make a back tension release fire, you flex or squeeze the muscles of your back so that your shoulder blades are trying to touch. To find these muscles, have someone stand facing you while you pretend to hold a bow at full draw. Have them grasp your elbows and gently try to force you to give them a hug... while you resist, all the while keeping your hands and arms relaxed. The back muscles you feel resisting are the ones you need to flex to make the back tension release fire. When shooting, you will flex mostly the release-side muscles of the back, leaving the bowarm-side mostly static.

............................................AIMING......................................................
To aim, reach full draw with perfect T form, line up your bubble level, pick the right pin and center it all in the peep. Next, move your whole upper body to get on target. You don't want to just move your arm up and down or side to side. That introduces torque. At full draw, your upper body and arms should at all times form a perfect T shape. When everything is lined up, start consciously relaxing muscles. Hold the bow back with your back muscles. Start with relaxing your hands and work your way up your arms and through the shoulders. When you've shot this way enough, you won't have to even think about this step. Then go into aiming mode. Your full concentration switches to the spot and only the spot. The pin is blurry and it will still seem to float around the spot, but you need to forget about the pin. You will naturally try to keep it on the spot without even thinking about it. You should be focusing on the spot and nothing else. Keep your concentration while slowly squeezing through the shot, making sure to follow through after the release. The first few times the bow goes off, it will scare the heck out of you. Keep at it! You will get used to it and it's important to never be able to anticipate the shot. No cheating! Focus... concentrate on the spot you want to hit and just squeeze through until the shot breaks.

............................................THE FOLLOW THROUGH......................................
When you "follow through" after the bow goes off, people say you should try to keep the pin on the target or keep aiming until the arrow hits. I've always felt that that was a bad way to describe it. You can't keep aiming or even see the pin once you shoot. What I would say is... keep your T form until you hear the arrow hit, do not drop your bow arm or move your head, stay relaxed and let the bow go where it wants to with out grabbing it. Good follow through takes practice.


............................................THE FIRST STEP.............................................
It's tempting to just go right out and try all of this on a target at 20 yards, but *DON'T DO IT! *When you start trying all of this for the first time, it is very important, and it will speed up the learning process... if you completely eliminate the aiming part of shooting the bow. Work on relaxation and a surprise release before you ever have to worry about aiming. You need to ingrain the feel of the shot process so that it becomes automatic... as in the term, "muscle memory." You do this with your eyes closed at first. Your target needs to be at the same height as your arrow. I hang my target from a rafter and stand close, so that the tip of my arrow is about 3 1/2 feet away from the target at full draw. After you reach full draw and have lined everything up, close your eyes, relax and think through every step of the shot. 


..............................................THE FOUNDATION..........................................
When that feels VERY comfortable, move to a blank target that is 3 yards away and start shooting with your eyes open, but use no spot and try not to aim for a spot on the target... in fact, it would be better to just take the sight off your bow for this step. When you are so sick of doing this every day that you are ready to hang yourself, (something like 3 weeks later... at least 1000 arrows), move to 5 yards with a big spot and try it all while aiming. Over the next few weeks, use a smaller and smaller spot to aim at. Then work your way out to longer and longer distances, starting every session at the hanging target with your eyes closed. If you ever feel like your backsliding... anticipating the shot or doing something else wrong, don't be afraid to get close again. Don't cheat here! You are building a new foundation and you have to start from the bottom up. You don't want to re-cycle any of the weak, faulty bricks you used in your old foundation. Take your time and do this right! Any shortcuts you take right now will come back to haunt you! Guaranteed!


.....................................THE SWITCH TO AN INDEX FINGER RELEASE..................
Adjust your release so that the 2nd pad back from the tip of your finger is curled over the trigger. Don't use the tip of your finger. It is too sensitive and easy to move. The aiming process and shot sequence are exactly the same with an index finger release as it is with a back tension release. Put as much pressure on the trigger as you can without making it fire and then squeeze just your back muscles until it goes off. 

.....................................................THE MIND SET..................................................
When I was faced with target panic, I realized that I was going to have to change my thinking. I had always felt that I needed to "shoot the bow." Instead, I came to the conclusion that I needed to let the bow shoot itself! I had found a new philosophy in archery. To be static. A bow shooting machine. To just stay out of the way and allow the arrow to leave the bow with no outside influences working against it... namely me! After all, if my bow was being shot out of a shooting machine... the arrows would all be going in the same hole! Just that little bit of attitude adjustment, that little change in my approach to shooting, was all that it took to get my mind right. Shooting a bow in this way is truly amazing! It defies logic, really, and at some point in all of this process, you will know you are doing it right because your arrows will keep going dead center of the bull's-eye... even when you know the pin was not on the spot at the time your bow went off. Kind of like some kind of Zen-master ninja-jedi... no kidding!

Shooting a bow using this method is very nearly mandatory for consistent long range shooting, but it is amazing how much it helps in all facets of bow hunting. I've seen vast improvements in my shooting at long distances and at close range. I'm better out of a tree stand, in awkward positions and under pressure. It has even helped me with buck fever! After shooting like this for some years, my concentration and focus seldom abandon me in a hunting situation. Oh, I still lose it sometimes... this is bow hunting after all! But then there are the times when my sight pin is so still that it doesn't really seem fair to the game animals!

Now, you may be wondering... after learning this technique, do I kill every buck, bull and tom by shooting my bow exactly like this? No. I don't. Not exactly. In hunting, sometimes we need to be able to time the shot or otherwise shoot quickly. If you practice it, a trigger release can be shot very quickly while still using back tension and good form. I will tell you this... the basics of aiming and firing are always there. Now, if I need to shoot quickly, I do not punch the trigger or control the sight pin... I just use a quicker squeeze! 

Learn this and I promise you, you won't be sorry. It will absolutely cure target panic if done properly and it really is the best way to shoot a compound bow with sights. I just wish I had known all of this when I was just starting out. As it turned out, I had to go through "target panic-hell" before I learned for myself!


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## aread

As always, a great post from Zane. If you do what he says, you will be a much better archer for it.

However, if you are already pretty close to that, there are a number of reasons for the droopy pin. Some of them are:

- loss of back tension - during the draw, we often relax a little when the bow rolls over the let off. We need to keep the tension in our backs 
- the DL on your bow may be a little long
- loss of focus - when our minds begin focusing on aiming, then we switch focus to the back end, there is a tendency for the pin to wonder a bit. Once aiming begins, keep your focus 100% on aiming. 
- letting your bow arm get a little weak - in general, the more muscles that can be relaxed, the better. However, we need to keep our bow arms strong and solid.

There are other reasons, but these are the ones that I've personally had to overcome. 

Any time your pin starts drooping, let down. Don't let yourself shoot a bad shot. This sounds easy, but it's one of the hardest things to do in archery. It requires a lot of self discipline. 

Hope this helps. Let us know how it works out for you.

Allen


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## kyle12

also when my finger is behind the trigger on the release i can old everything right where i want it and as soon as i put it on the trigger i start to drop


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## wgvtheduke

ttt


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## wackandstackRMH

@ dam white shoe
I think you just convinced me to try true back tension. I have a couple Zenith comfort releases with the clicker cams. Great releases but i still find myself anticipating the shot.

wackandstackRMH


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## subconsciously

kyle12 said:


> also when my finger is behind the trigger on the release i can old everything right where i want it and as soon as i put it on the trigger i start to drop


That my friend would be TP.


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## aread

kyle12 said:


> also when my finger is behind the trigger on the release i can old everything right where i want it and as soon as i put it on the trigger i start to drop


Subconsciously is almost certainly right about the TP. If you take the cure now, it may not be too difficult to control. Read da White Shoe's post and hit the blank bale. There is also a good discussion of it in the book Idiot Proof Archery. 

Good luck,
Allen


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## archer60x

I had the same problem and what I found was I was dropping my pin to see the center of the target, maybe a form of target panic....personally I think I was just trying to control the shot. A lot of good advice here so all I will add is that I had to reprogram my thinking to trust that the when the pin covers the center of the target I am ready to go!!

Good luck


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## mike 66

DROPPING OUT OF THE TARGET IS ................... TARGET PANIC :angry:


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## sightmaster

subconsciously said:


> Focus on the spot - not the pin. Your worried more about where your pin is than aiming. There is consious aiming and subconscious aiming. Your subconsious will bring the pin back to center for you if you focus on the spot. If your focusing on pin your not letting your subconsciouos do its work.
> 
> clear as mud I hope.


yocould try that or you could take your dl or dw down because if the dw id too heavy your armwill tend to drop because your arm cant hold the weight any more. i had the same prodlem but i took down the dw and i said goodbye to dropping my arm


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## sightmaster

sorry for my spelling errors


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## shields642

dont worry about "target panic" or whether your focusing on your pin or mark pr any of the other hype droping your arm is just a simple fix simply remind yourself that when you release to still be looking thru your sight when your arrow hits the target if you remind yourself over and over and practice releasing and keeping the bow in the same position as before the arrows released it will become a habit it just takes a lot of shooting


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## aread

sightmaster said:


> sorry for my spelling errors


Don't worry about that. This is archery talk, not spelling & grammar talk. As long as your archery knowledge is sound and we can understand you, it's all good.

We know that Archery skills and spelling skills are not always found in the same place. We value the archery skills around here! 

JMHO,
Allen


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## da white shoe

shields642 said:


> dont worry about "target panic" or whether your focusing on your pin or mark pr any of the other hype droping your arm is just a simple fix simply remind yourself that when you release to still be looking thru your sight when your arrow hits the target if you remind yourself over and over and practice releasing and keeping the bow in the same position as before the arrows released it will become a habit it just takes a lot of shooting


He stated that he was dropping his arm *before* he released. 
This was not a followthrough problem....


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## [email protected]

Spot on advice from da white shoe,sub,and aread.I dont wanna rain on your parade but there is no quick fix.If your are shooting proper backtension then you have to bale and ingrain this procedure in your sequence and more importantly into your subconscious.If your not i agree with shoe tear it all down and learn proper bt.It will be frustrating at first but with time & dedication the tp demons go away and you expierence a pure bow shot! That feeling after all your work is very gratifying.Good Luck.


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## Old Man Archer

Another technique to help this is listening for the arrow to hit the target , after working on the blank bale as suggested and you are finally ready to start shooting at a target add this simple but slightly difficult step into your practice regimen. Start at a close distance (5-10 yards) with a substantial backstop place a target loosely on a thick piece of cardboard. Hang the target at a comfortable height ( about shoulder height ) . Many archers develope the same type of TP due to wanting to see the arrow hit and not trusting their shot the desire to see it hit where they want makes them prematurely drop their arm. This helps with that issue. Toe the line and draw and aim as you normally would but once you are on target close both eyes and complete your shot sequence , DO NOT OPEN your eyes or allow your bow arm to drop til you hear the arrow pop on the target. If you instill this one simple step of listening for the arrow to hit it will help to keep you from dropping your arm or peeking to see til the arrow is already there. This was a technique taught to me many years ago when shooting field archery with recurves. It still works today even with compounds no matter the target you will be surprised how far away you can hear the arrow hit. Of course you only close your eyes for the close practice and learning the technique but it is easy to revisit if you find yourself dropping your arm or peeking again. Now back to the Professional coaches instead of just an old archer with old techniques.


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## subconsciously

Old Man Archer said:


> Another technique to help this is listening for the arrow to hit the target , after working on the blank bale as suggested and you are finally ready to start shooting at a target add this simple but slightly difficult step into your practice regimen. Start at a close distance (5-10 yards) with a substantial backstop place a target loosely on a thick piece of cardboard. Hang the target at a comfortable height ( about shoulder height ) . Many archers develope the same type of TP due to wanting to see the arrow hit and not trusting their shot the desire to see it hit where they want makes them prematurely drop their arm. This helps with that issue. Toe the line and draw and aim as you normally would but once you are on target close both eyes and complete your shot sequence , DO NOT OPEN your eyes or allow your bow arm to drop til you hear the arrow pop on the target. If you instill this one simple step of listening for the arrow to hit it will help to keep you from dropping your arm or peeking to see til the arrow is already there. This was a technique taught to me many years ago when shooting field archery with recurves. It still works today even with compounds no matter the target you will be surprised how far away you can hear the arrow hit. Of course you only close your eyes for the close practice and learning the technique but it is easy to revisit if you find yourself dropping your arm or peeking again. Now back to the Professional coaches instead of just an old archer with old techniques.


I have one question. How will listening for the arrow to impact help the OP from not being able to hold his pin in the bulls eye? Just curious.


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## mjsteps

That is a great article ie tips....Printing it off now. Thanks


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## Old Man Archer

subconsciously said:


> I have one question. How will listening for the arrow to impact help the OP from not being able to hold his pin in the bulls eye? Just curious.


 If the archer starts the process with their eyes closed when shooting at a close distance and learns to keep his bow arm up till he hears the arrow hit it will help to change the bad habit of dropping the bow arm and peeking to see the shot which is how this habit and problem first starts a good majority of the time. The OP says he is dropping his arm while aiming which in most young archers means they are peeking to see the spot as they start to release in turn they don't hold there arm up though the shot. Just as a person has to go thru hours and hours and hours of blind baling which can be invaluable to help cure TP this if done with as much conviction can help break the habit of dropping the bow arm or peeking. I'm not sure the young OP has TP but they have developed a bad habit for sure and this is yet another tool which can help to break this habit. Without seeing the individual I would rather start with an easy , simple exercise than make a diagnosis of full blown TP especially in a young archer. Kinda like a cardiologist calling for open heart surgery before ruling out indigestion , start simple then progress if needed.


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## OBE

da white shoe said:


> .......................................THE GRIP..................................................
> *Before drawing the bow, position your hand on the grip and start pulling with your release hand to put pressure on the string.* You are trying to find the exact spot for your bow hand to be in on the grip. You want to feel all of the pressure from the bow at one point on your bow hand when you're at full draw. Pretend there is a steel rod running parallel and exactly between the two bones in your forearm. Where that rod would exit your palm is where this point is. If you find this spot, it will help keep you from torquing the bow handle. A thin, vertical handle is best... less surface area for your hand to torque. Also, if you will rotate the bottom of your bow hand away from the bow a few degrees for your grip, you will clear a path for the bowstring and negate torque at the same time. Learn to find your grip before you draw the bow on every shot, but once you start your draw, *do not *move your *bow hand AT ALL.*


Thanks for the adding this to your response. Don't mean to hijack the thread but I wanted to let you know what a positive difference this has made in my shooting since you posted this. I had always repositioned my hand after coming to full draw. Now I have one less unneccesary step in my shot process and a more consistant grip as well.


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## da white shoe

OBE said:


> Thanks for the adding this to your response. Don't mean to hijack the thread but I wanted to let you know what a positive difference this has made in my shooting since you posted this. I had always repositioned my hand after coming to full draw. Now I have one less unneccesary step in my shot process and a more consistant grip as well.


I'm glad it helped! :thumbs_up


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## gondo

da white shoe said:


> I had the same thing happen to me, too. It was my first indication that something was going horribly wrong! It took some doing, but I killed it in an epic battle that lasted over 2 years. That was 17 years ago. It hasn't been back since.
> 
> An uncontrollable, falling sight picture is definately a form of target panic and it can get very nasty! There is no such thing as mild target panic... it all leads to something worse!
> 
> I will tell you what you *DO NOT *want to waste your time with.... don't even try to shoot your bow by begining your sight picture high and then timing your shot to when the pin falls to the target!!! That may help at first, but it will just make matters worse in the long run.
> 
> I believe that you are probably at the point of no return, my friend. I think you're goingThank God, there is a better way! It's not hard to learn, but you will probably have to change everything you *think* you know about shooting a bow. Picture this...
> 
> If you had a deer rifle at the range, bench rested over sandbags and you were trying to hit a 3" spot at 300 yards, my guess is you would seldom, if ever hit it unless the shot took you by surprise. The minute you try to control the trigger on that rifle, that 3" spot is going to be pretty safe. Bows are a bit different, in that we can't bench them down to shoot. We have to physically hold the weight of the bowstring back at full draw, yet, at the same time we have to find a way for the bow to launch the arrow while introducing the least amount of influence on that shot with our muscles and minds. Your mind is always going to be faster than your reflexes. You have to remove your mind from the shot process altogether. The best way to eliminate human error when shooting a bow is by using correct form, a back tension shot and a surprise release.
> 
> You may already be doing some or most of this correctly, but I have included it because it all ties together to make for a good shot.
> 
> ********** HOW TO SHOOT WITH BACK TENSION AND A SURPRISE RELEASE *********
> 
> 
> .......................................THE GRIP..................................................
> Before drawing the bow, position your hand on the grip and start pulling with your release hand to put pressure on the string. You are trying to find the exact spot for your bow hand to be in on the grip. You want to feel all of the pressure from the bow at one point on your bow hand when you're at full draw. Pretend there is a steel rod running parallel and exactly between the two bones in your forearm. Where that rod would exit your palm is where this point is. If you find this spot, it will help keep you from torquing the bow handle. A thin, vertical handle is best... less surface area for your hand to torque. Also, if you will rotate the bottom of your bow hand away from the bow a few degrees for your grip, you will clear a path for the bowstring and negate torque at the same time. Learn to find your grip before you draw the bow on every shot, but once you start your draw, *do not *move your *bow hand AT ALL.*
> ...........................................RELAXATION............................................
> At full draw, your release hand as well as your bow hand, should be completely relaxed. You don't want to be grasping or squeezing the barrel of the release or the grip of your bow handle. Also, do not force either of your hands open. Your fingers should be hanging limp and relaxed. I lightly touch my first finger and my thumb together around the bow handle, but some people use a wrist sling. Use the bones in your arms and the muscles in your back to hold as much of the weight of the bow at full draw as you can. Relax every muscle in your arms that you don't need to use to stay at full draw. That goes for the muscles in your shoulders, torso and legs, too. Remember; tension in your muscles is what causes your sights to wobble and jump around. If you can learn to relax everything that isn't needed to hold at full draw, your sight pins will* barely even move*. It is very important that your bow is set at the correct draw length though. If it is too long or too short, you will have a very hard time relaxing fully.
> 
> ..........................................BACK TENSION............................................
> Next thing to work on is getting a surprise release. Learning this correctly, right from the start, is far easier with a back tension release. To make a back tension release fire, you flex or squeeze the muscles of your back so that your shoulder blades are trying to touch. To find these muscles, have someone stand facing you while you pretend to hold a bow at full draw. Have them grasp your elbows and gently try to force you to give them a hug... while you resist, all the while keeping your hands and arms relaxed. The back muscles you feel resisting are the ones you need to flex to make the back tension release fire. When shooting, you will flex mostly the release-side muscles of the back, leaving the bowarm-side mostly static.
> 
> ............................................AIMING......................................................
> To aim, reach full draw with perfect T form, line up your bubble level, pick the right pin and center it all in the peep. Next, move your whole upper body to get on target. You don't want to just move your arm up and down or side to side. That introduces torque. At full draw, your upper body and arms should at all times form a perfect T shape. When everything is lined up, start consciously relaxing muscles. Hold the bow back with your back muscles. Start with relaxing your hands and work your way up your arms and through the shoulders. When you've shot this way enough, you won't have to even think about this step. Then go into aiming mode. Your full concentration switches to the spot and only the spot. The pin is blurry and it will still seem to float around the spot, but you need to forget about the pin. You will naturally try to keep it on the spot without even thinking about it. You should be focusing on the spot and nothing else. Keep your concentration while slowly squeezing through the shot, making sure to follow through after the release. The first few times the bow goes off, it will scare the heck out of you. Keep at it! You will get used to it and it's important to never be able to anticipate the shot. No cheating! Focus... concentrate on the spot you want to hit and just squeeze through until the shot breaks.
> 
> ............................................THE FOLLOW THROUGH......................................
> When you "follow through" after the bow goes off, people say you should try to keep the pin on the target or keep aiming until the arrow hits. I've always felt that that was a bad way to describe it. You can't keep aiming or even see the pin once you shoot. What I would say is... keep your T form until you hear the arrow hit, do not drop your bow arm or move your head, stay relaxed and let the bow go where it wants to with out grabbing it. Good follow through takes practice.
> 
> 
> ............................................THE FIRST STEP.............................................
> It's tempting to just go right out and try all of this on a target at 20 yards, but *DON'T DO IT! *When you start trying all of this for the first time, it is very important, and it will speed up the learning process... if you completely eliminate the aiming part of shooting the bow. Work on relaxation and a surprise release before you ever have to worry about aiming. You need to ingrain the feel of the shot process so that it becomes automatic... as in the term, "muscle memory." You do this with your eyes closed at first. Your target needs to be at the same height as your arrow. I hang my target from a rafter and stand close, so that the tip of my arrow is about 3 1/2 feet away from the target at full draw. After you reach full draw and have lined everything up, close your eyes, relax and think through every step of the shot.
> 
> 
> ..............................................THE FOUNDATION..........................................
> When that feels VERY comfortable, move to a blank target that is 3 yards away and start shooting with your eyes open, but use no spot and try not to aim for a spot on the target... in fact, it would be better to just take the sight off your bow for this step. When you are so sick of doing this every day that you are ready to hang yourself, (something like 3 weeks later... at least 1000 arrows), move to 5 yards with a big spot and try it all while aiming. Over the next few weeks, use a smaller and smaller spot to aim at. Then work your way out to longer and longer distances, starting every session at the hanging target with your eyes closed. If you ever feel like your backsliding... anticipating the shot or doing something else wrong, don't be afraid to get close again. Don't cheat here! You are building a new foundation and you have to start from the bottom up. You don't want to re-cycle any of the weak, faulty bricks you used in your old foundation. Take your time and do this right! Any shortcuts you take right now will come back to haunt you! Guaranteed!
> 
> 
> .....................................THE SWITCH TO AN INDEX FINGER RELEASE..................
> Adjust your release so that the 2nd pad back from the tip of your finger is curled over the trigger. Don't use the tip of your finger. It is too sensitive and easy to move. The aiming process and shot sequence are exactly the same with an index finger release as it is with a back tension release. Put as much pressure on the trigger as you can without making it fire and then squeeze just your back muscles until it goes off.
> 
> .....................................................THE MIND SET..................................................
> When I was faced with target panic, I realized that I was going to have to change my thinking. I had always felt that I needed to "shoot the bow." Instead, I came to the conclusion that I needed to let the bow shoot itself! I had found a new philosophy in archery. To be static. A bow shooting machine. To just stay out of the way and allow the arrow to leave the bow with no outside influences working against it... namely me! After all, if my bow was being shot out of a shooting machine... the arrows would all be going in the same hole! Just that little bit of attitude adjustment, that little change in my approach to shooting, was all that it took to get my mind right. Shooting a bow in this way is truly amazing! It defies logic, really, and at some point in all of this process, you will know you are doing it right because your arrows will keep going dead center of the bull's-eye... even when you know the pin was not on the spot at the time your bow went off. Kind of like some kind of Zen-master ninja-jedi... no kidding!
> 
> Shooting a bow using this method is very nearly mandatory for consistent long range shooting, but it is amazing how much it helps in all facets of bow hunting. I've seen vast improvements in my shooting at long distances and at close range. I'm better out of a tree stand, in awkward positions and under pressure. It has even helped me with buck fever! After shooting like this for some years, my concentration and focus seldom abandon me in a hunting situation. Oh, I still lose it sometimes... this is bow hunting after all! But then there are the times when my sight pin is so still that it doesn't really seem fair to the game animals!
> 
> Now, you may be wondering... after learning this technique, do I kill every buck, bull and tom by shooting my bow exactly like this? No. I don't. Not exactly. In hunting, sometimes we need to be able to time the shot or otherwise shoot quickly. If you practice it, a trigger release can be shot very quickly while still using back tension and good form. I will tell you this... the basics of aiming and firing are always there. Now, if I need to shoot quickly, I do not punch the trigger or control the sight pin... I just use a quicker squeeze!
> 
> Learn this and I promise you, you won't be sorry. It will absolutely cure target panic if done properly and it really is the best way to shoot a compound bow with sights. I just wish I had known all of this when I was just starting out. As it turned out, I had to go through "target panic-hell" before I learned for myself!


I thought i would just avoid learning what target panic was and I would never get it... well i have had it for the last week and had a suspicion and after reading some articles my suspicion was confirmed. THANKFULLY i read this last night and thought about it today... I think often our minds are incredibly more powerful than our bodies but as humans (and especially men lol) we tend to think our will can be done just be cause we will it to... NOT the case. I can guarantee if you can allow yourself to do what is mentioned in the above quote from DA WHITE SHOE you can be an incredible archer if you can repeat your setup and then go immediately to a place where your subconcious takes over. This is so easy that I cant believe it took me all these years to read about this and understand a correct archery release! Dont get me wrong I am an incredible puncher of the trigger and could get by with it till last week. This is to simple for some to understand. You just set up correctly to the target, focus on the dot and squeeze your trigger, no timing no thinking, just look at dot and squeeze trigger... let your subconcious coordination zen thing take over and the arrows will go right where they need to be... it is so wrong that they go there that you almost cant believe it... but the key is dont question it... just keep staring at the spot and squeezing the trigger until it goes off by surprise... DO not focus on your pin and it will happen. DA WHITE SHOES you deserve a beer my friend because i just shot 3 arrows into a 2 inch dot at 60 yards with my 32 ATA bow. Did absolutely nothing but what is stated in your quote, i was so focused on the dot and not the pin that the 3rd shot went off and I said "mother %^($#@" because it scared me so bad... funny thing is i didnt see it hit the target but i knew it was a bullseye before I walked out there.


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## da white shoe

Isn't it the truth!?! You would never think that it could work like it does!
I'm really happy that it has worked this well for you! Keep it up!



Oh, and... I just happen to be having a beer right at this moment! :darkbeer:


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## k9unit

Not sure if this was mentioned or is even worth it but I have the same problem, I cant get my bow arm to go up to center when I drop under. One thing that works for me is to concentrate on my scope bubble and move up looking at the target with my peripheral vision, and for some reason I have NO problem getting it back up. Target panic YES! (for me anyways) 
If anyone knows if this could be a bad habit to get used to PLEASE let me know. I would hate to get a worse habit then I already have, let alone advising someone else to do it as well.


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## gondo

da white shoe said:


> Isn't it the truth!?! You would never think that it could work like it does!
> I'm really happy that it has worked this well for you! Keep it up!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and... I just happen to be having a beer right at this moment! :darkbeer:


This method of aiming or shooting or whatever it is, is just sick... i shot seventy yards for the first time in my life today and i cant see where the arrow hits at that distance but i swear i thought my 3 shots would be all over the target... nope, get up there and there is a nice little group about the size of my fist sitting right above the bull, i guess it was above the bull instead of on it because i just guesstimated the pin height... I hope I can not over think it when a deer walks out this season and keep composure enough to not revert to old ways. I really believe that what I am seeing is that once you can learn to aim this way that the only thing that can hold someone back is consistent setup and perfectly fitted and tuned equipment.


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## nathanb_23

This is a great thread! I have been working on getting over TP for about 4 months now. I had the same issue. Not being able to hold my pin on the "X". Once I settled in on the shot, I slowly started to fall and could not bring it back up. After reading a lot of info, I made the jump from a wrist release to a Scott Longhorn IV (hinge). Concentrating on something else other than my pins has helped me immensely. I know this is only the starting point but my confidence has risen with my success. I believe my TP started many years ago when I was younger. I remember I was always afraid of shooting over the target and loosing an arrow. In turn I was always holding low and this carried on through many years of shooting and hunting. Reading many of the great threads on here and articles has really helped me alot. So thanks for all those that choose to share their knowledge with us. This is what AT is supposed to be about. Helping others that share the passion for something as they do. Not trying to hi-jack this thread, just sharing my thoughts.


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## Durhampro

Couple of quick questions before I would diagnose target panic Kyle, not seeing you in action makes it kind of hard.

How long is your front stabilizer? 
How much weight is on the end of it? 
Do you have a side or rear stabilizer? 
What type of release do you shoot?
Is your bow perhaps too strong for you at this time?
Has anyone checked your draw length?
How long generally do you hold on the target before you shoot?
Is your release a surprise? or do you know when it is going to go off?


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## clo650

da white shoe said:


> I had the same thing happen to me, too. It was my first indication that something was going horribly wrong! It took some doing, but I killed it in an epic battle that lasted over 2 years. That was 17 years ago. It hasn't been back since.
> 
> An uncontrollable, falling sight picture is definately a form of target panic and it can get very nasty! There is no such thing as mild target panic... it all leads to something worse!
> 
> I will tell you what you *DO NOT *want to waste your time with.... don't even try to shoot your bow by begining your sight picture high and then timing your shot to when the pin falls to the target!!! That may help at first, but it will just make matters worse in the long run.
> 
> I believe that you are probably at the point of no return, my friend. I think you're going to have to learn to shoot a bow all over again, using a different method of aiming. Most people can do a pretty good job of shooting a bow using the "timing the trigger to the spot" method... at least for a while. I did it for years and I considered myself to be an above average shot. But, if you shoot that way long enough, chances are good that some kind of target panic will raise it's ugly head! It is very hard to avoid target panic when you are timing the release to the pin crossing the target. You have to understand that your mind is *always *going to be faster than your reflexes! Before long, you are concentrating on the pin so hard that you can't even control where it goes! I've been there, believe me!
> 
> Thank God, there is a better way! It's not hard to learn, but you will probably have to change everything you *think* you know about shooting a bow. Picture this...
> 
> If you had a deer rifle at the range, bench rested over sandbags and you were trying to hit a 3" spot at 300 yards, my guess is you would seldom, if ever hit it unless the shot took you by surprise. The minute you try to control the trigger on that rifle, that 3" spot is going to be pretty safe. Bows are a bit different, in that we can't bench them down to shoot. We have to physically hold the weight of the bowstring back at full draw, yet, at the same time we have to find a way for the bow to launch the arrow while introducing the least amount of influence on that shot with our muscles and minds. Your mind is always going to be faster than your reflexes. You have to remove your mind from the shot process altogether. The best way to eliminate human error when shooting a bow is by using correct form, a back tension shot and a surprise release.
> 
> You may already be doing some or most of this correctly, but I have included it because it all ties together to make for a good shot.
> 
> ********** HOW TO SHOOT WITH BACK TENSION AND A SURPRISE RELEASE *********
> 
> 
> .......................................THE GRIP..................................................
> Before drawing the bow, position your hand on the grip and start pulling with your release hand to put pressure on the string. You are trying to find the exact spot for your bow hand to be in on the grip. You want to feel all of the pressure from the bow at one point on your bow hand when you're at full draw. Pretend there is a steel rod running parallel and exactly between the two bones in your forearm. Where that rod would exit your palm is where this point is. If you find this spot, it will help keep you from torquing the bow handle. A thin, vertical handle is best... less surface area for your hand to torque. Also, if you will rotate the bottom of your bow hand away from the bow a few degrees for your grip, you will clear a path for the bowstring and negate torque at the same time. Learn to find your grip before you draw the bow on every shot, but once you start your draw, *do not *move your *bow hand AT ALL.*
> ...........................................RELAXATION............................................
> At full draw, your release hand as well as your bow hand, should be completely relaxed. You don't want to be grasping or squeezing the barrel of the release or the grip of your bow handle. Also, do not force either of your hands open. Your fingers should be hanging limp and relaxed. I lightly touch my first finger and my thumb together around the bow handle, but some people use a wrist sling. Use the bones in your arms and the muscles in your back to hold as much of the weight of the bow at full draw as you can. Relax every muscle in your arms that you don't need to use to stay at full draw. That goes for the muscles in your shoulders, torso and legs, too. Remember; tension in your muscles is what causes your sights to wobble and jump around. If you can learn to relax everything that isn't needed to hold at full draw, your sight pins will* barely even move*. It is very important that your bow is set at the correct draw length though. If it is too long or too short, you will have a very hard time relaxing fully.
> 
> ..........................................BACK TENSION............................................
> Next thing to work on is getting a surprise release. Learning this correctly, right from the start, is far easier with a back tension release. To make a back tension release fire, you flex or squeeze the muscles of your back so that your shoulder blades are trying to touch. To find these muscles, have someone stand facing you while you pretend to hold a bow at full draw. Have them grasp your elbows and gently try to force you to give them a hug... while you resist, all the while keeping your hands and arms relaxed. The back muscles you feel resisting are the ones you need to flex to make the back tension release fire. When shooting, you will flex mostly the release-side muscles of the back, leaving the bowarm-side mostly static.
> 
> ............................................AIMING......................................................
> To aim, reach full draw with perfect T form, line up your bubble level, pick the right pin and center it all in the peep. Next, move your whole upper body to get on target. You don't want to just move your arm up and down or side to side. That introduces torque. At full draw, your upper body and arms should at all times form a perfect T shape. When everything is lined up, start consciously relaxing muscles. Hold the bow back with your back muscles. Start with relaxing your hands and work your way up your arms and through the shoulders. When you've shot this way enough, you won't have to even think about this step. Then go into aiming mode. Your full concentration switches to the spot and only the spot. The pin is blurry and it will still seem to float around the spot, but you need to forget about the pin. You will naturally try to keep it on the spot without even thinking about it. You should be focusing on the spot and nothing else. Keep your concentration while slowly squeezing through the shot, making sure to follow through after the release. The first few times the bow goes off, it will scare the heck out of you. Keep at it! You will get used to it and it's important to never be able to anticipate the shot. No cheating! Focus... concentrate on the spot you want to hit and just squeeze through until the shot breaks.
> 
> ............................................THE FOLLOW THROUGH......................................
> When you "follow through" after the bow goes off, people say you should try to keep the pin on the target or keep aiming until the arrow hits. I've always felt that that was a bad way to describe it. You can't keep aiming or even see the pin once you shoot. What I would say is... keep your T form until you hear the arrow hit, do not drop your bow arm or move your head, stay relaxed and let the bow go where it wants to with out grabbing it. Good follow through takes practice.
> 
> 
> ............................................THE FIRST STEP.............................................
> It's tempting to just go right out and try all of this on a target at 20 yards, but *DON'T DO IT! *When you start trying all of this for the first time, it is very important, and it will speed up the learning process... if you completely eliminate the aiming part of shooting the bow. Work on relaxation and a surprise release before you ever have to worry about aiming. You need to ingrain the feel of the shot process so that it becomes automatic... as in the term, "muscle memory." You do this with your eyes closed at first. Your target needs to be at the same height as your arrow. I hang my target from a rafter and stand close, so that the tip of my arrow is about 3 1/2 feet away from the target at full draw. After you reach full draw and have lined everything up, close your eyes, relax and think through every step of the shot.
> 
> 
> ..............................................THE FOUNDATION..........................................
> When that feels VERY comfortable, move to a blank target that is 3 yards away and start shooting with your eyes open, but use no spot and try not to aim for a spot on the target... in fact, it would be better to just take the sight off your bow for this step. When you are so sick of doing this every day that you are ready to hang yourself, (something like 3 weeks later... at least 1000 arrows), move to 5 yards with a big spot and try it all while aiming. Over the next few weeks, use a smaller and smaller spot to aim at. Then work your way out to longer and longer distances, starting every session at the hanging target with your eyes closed. If you ever feel like your backsliding... anticipating the shot or doing something else wrong, don't be afraid to get close again. Don't cheat here! You are building a new foundation and you have to start from the bottom up. You don't want to re-cycle any of the weak, faulty bricks you used in your old foundation. Take your time and do this right! Any shortcuts you take right now will come back to haunt you! Guaranteed!
> 
> 
> .....................................THE SWITCH TO AN INDEX FINGER RELEASE..................
> Adjust your release so that the 2nd pad back from the tip of your finger is curled over the trigger. Don't use the tip of your finger. It is too sensitive and easy to move. The aiming process and shot sequence are exactly the same with an index finger release as it is with a back tension release. Put as much pressure on the trigger as you can without making it fire and then squeeze just your back muscles until it goes off.
> 
> .....................................................THE MIND SET..................................................
> When I was faced with target panic, I realized that I was going to have to change my thinking. I had always felt that I needed to "shoot the bow." Instead, I came to the conclusion that I needed to let the bow shoot itself! I had found a new philosophy in archery. To be static. A bow shooting machine. To just stay out of the way and allow the arrow to leave the bow with no outside influences working against it... namely me! After all, if my bow was being shot out of a shooting machine... the arrows would all be going in the same hole! Just that little bit of attitude adjustment, that little change in my approach to shooting, was all that it took to get my mind right. Shooting a bow in this way is truly amazing! It defies logic, really, and at some point in all of this process, you will know you are doing it right because your arrows will keep going dead center of the bull's-eye... even when you know the pin was not on the spot at the time your bow went off. Kind of like some kind of Zen-master ninja-jedi... no kidding!
> 
> Shooting a bow using this method is very nearly mandatory for consistent long range shooting, but it is amazing how much it helps in all facets of bow hunting. I've seen vast improvements in my shooting at long distances and at close range. I'm better out of a tree stand, in awkward positions and under pressure. It has even helped me with buck fever! After shooting like this for some years, my concentration and focus seldom abandon me in a hunting situation. Oh, I still lose it sometimes... this is bow hunting after all! But then there are the times when my sight pin is so still that it doesn't really seem fair to the game animals!
> 
> Now, you may be wondering... after learning this technique, do I kill every buck, bull and tom by shooting my bow exactly like this? No. I don't. Not exactly. In hunting, sometimes we need to be able to time the shot or otherwise shoot quickly. If you practice it, a trigger release can be shot very quickly while still using back tension and good form. I will tell you this... the basics of aiming and firing are always there. Now, if I need to shoot quickly, I do not punch the trigger or control the sight pin... I just use a quicker squeeze!
> 
> Learn this and I promise you, you won't be sorry. It will absolutely cure target panic if done properly and it really is the best way to shoot a compound bow with sights. I just wish I had known all of this when I was just starting out. As it turned out, I had to go through "target panic-hell" before I learned for myself!



Very nice post!


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## kyle12

4 inches
same throughout... not alot
it is in the front under the grip facing out
it is a tru fire with wrist strap finger release
no i have shot 53 pounds since i was 14 or 15
yes it is 28 1/2
i used to hold about 30 seconds when i could aim normal now i hold until i force my pin up(it varies)... then i lose back tension as well 
i know when it goes off i punch it and always have but i now do not have the discipline to wait i panic and force myself to shoot resulting in alot of bad shots


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## Splitshafts

fANTASTIC ADVICE!!!..... COACHBERNIE gives similar if not the very same advice.

It should be mentioned that starting with your pin below the target causes your shoulder muscles to "FIRE". That means you start to use your muscles. Instead of using the bones in your arm. This causes follow through and hold on sight issues quickly. Starting the relaxing process above target allows your muscles to relax "into" the shot. Rather than strain to bring the weight of the bow "up" through the target..


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