# Broadhead question for recurve bow



## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

I am new to traditional archery. My question: Can I shoot a Muzzy three blade 125 grain broadhead out of a 40 lb and 45 lb recurve bow? I shoot of the shelf with a 400 spine fleetwood carbon arrow with four inch feathers. This arrow and head combo fly well. I am shooting instinctive and my shots will be 25 yards and under at whitetail deer. I have some Muzzy/s laying around that I used to shoot out of the compound and I am wondering if I can use them.


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## Bisch (Sep 10, 2016)

A muzzy will work, but with that low of draw weight, I would go to a cut in contact head like a Magnus Stinger. 

Bisch 


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## GCook (Aug 22, 2016)

Try it and let us know how it works out. 

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## anthonyray (Jun 26, 2019)

Muzzy's are fine out of a stickbow. I know a guy from northern Colorado that's killeda lot of elk with 125 grain Muzzy's and 53 pound stickbows. You can sharpen the trocar tip easy. And don't forget, muzzy was designed by a man that shot stickbows cause he was tired of the poor penetration from two bladed heads..


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

I have done a lot of "research" and the responses are split on what would work the best. It is true that the founder of Muzzy invented them/used them with traditional equipment but his draw weight was higher than 45 pounds. I know they fly well. Thanks


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

GCook said:


> Try it and let us know how it works out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Not very much respect to the animal...


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

anthonyray said:


> Muzzy's are fine out of a stickbow. I know a guy from northern Colorado that's killeda lot of elk with 125 grain Muzzy's and 53 pound stickbows. You can sharpen the trocar tip easy. And don't forget, muzzy was designed by a man that shot stickbows cause he was tired of the poor penetration from two bladed heads..


Bad penetration? A muzzy will have more cutting resistance...try pushing a muzzy and a cut on contact through cardboard.


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## c_m_shooter (Aug 15, 2018)

They muzzy chisel tip looks like it will cut on contact. You are good to go. I can't count the deer my step dad killed over the years with a 45 pound bow (1970-something pse wheel bow) and those old tiny 3 blade broadheads that were not cut on contact.


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## GCook (Aug 22, 2016)

stick monkey said:


> Not very much respect to the animal...


I've killed several pigs with Rage Hypodermic heads with a recurve. Short blood trails and large entrance and exit wounds. Are the they best option? Probably not but the pigs died just the same. 
You just have to get past all the people who have never tried it saying it can't be done. 

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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

GCook said:


> I've killed several pigs with Rage Hypodermic heads with a recurve. Short blood trails and large entrance and exit wounds. Are the they best option? Probably not but the pigs died just the same.
> You just have to get past all the people who have never tried it saying it can't be done.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Why go with an unknown when there's a proven option...lack of respect...wounded suffering animals is of no concern I guess


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## kadbow (Feb 24, 2019)

I am surprised you can get a .400 spine arrow with a 125 gr point to fly well out of 40 and 45 lb recurves.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

The question isn't what's best, it's can I shoot...

My question would be, do your fletched field points impact in the same spot as your 125 Muzzy? If yes, OK, if not, NO.

And I think you'll find that you're really going to surprise Kadbow if you find yes. Actually Kadbow and me.

Bowmania


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## GCook (Aug 22, 2016)

stick monkey said:


> Why go with an unknown when there's a proven option...lack of respect...wounded suffering animals is of no concern I guess


Your statement is false. I've killed dozens of animals with Rage heads. They have been proven tens of thousands of time by many thousands of bowhunters. Your just a person who cannot make a real arguement from fact so you try tainting a person's character by insults or insinuations. 
If you have never used a Muzzy, or a Thunderhead or even a Rage to take game then you have no basis for saying anything. BTW, I've killed them with a Thunderhead out of a recurve as well.

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## daveparr (Mar 10, 2006)

I have been doing this 40 years and really don't understand why people think their broad heads need to hit where their field points do. When preparing for elk or deer season for both trad bows and compound bows I only shoot broad heads. If the broad head tipped arrows fly perfectly I am good to go. 

I am also surprised that he can get good flight from 400s with a 40 lb bow and 125 Muzzies even if he uses 100 grain brass inserts. Full length arrows might get you there. One thing I have noted with beginning hunters is that they often don't know how poorly their arrows are flying. About 30 years ago in elk camp with several guys I hadn't hunted with before, I spent much of my time trying to tune their bows to shoot broad head tipped arrows effectively. It was amazing how poorly most of the guys' arrows were flying. 

I did shot an old AZ 325 bull last year with a 75 grain Muzzy 3 blade. Pass through with a 60 lb compound. No broad head on earth would have killed it any deader.


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## stick monkey (Mar 9, 2015)

I haven't used a rage...I wouldn't care to... I've heard plenty of horror stories about rage out of compounds. I don't need to argue further. I don't care what people do. But spend 30 $ and get some Magnus stinger. They work...the others don't work any better.


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## GCook (Aug 22, 2016)

I think CoC heads definitely give a edge on penetration. I think the 3 to 1 mechanical advantage gives an edge in penetration. 
I shoot swamp sharks and piledrivers now. I still prefer a wide cut for better blood trails. But when I first started single string there was a lot I lacked confidence in. One thing I did have confidence in is the broadheads I'd killed hundreds of animals with over decades. They did the job and over time, as my confidence in the rest of my equipment, form and myself caught up, I found the confidence to try other heads. Some sucked. A couple of them were heads others swear by. Like the Woodsman Elites. No edge holding, small hole cutting, bending at the least hint of a bone heads. 
But each archer needs to find his own way. For some it's just follow the leader and hope it'll be okay. For others they have to try their own path.
The heads he has will kill if he puts the right arrow behind them. And yes he needs to work on getting the right spine and tune for the best performance. 
I know a couple of pretty successful traditional killers who aren't shooting a well tuned or balanced set up. Their arrow flight is interesting. Yet they kill plenty.
Go figure.

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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

*No question*

A very efficient tapered COC head is the way to go. Can some other designs work...sure, *but you want to use THE MOST EFFICIENT BH design for a low energy setup. 
*
I've shot this deer with a 3 blade COC head [this was either the Trailmaker from Kustom King or the Snuffer- can't remember] and it worked well....but it didn't blow through the buck super fast and bury in the ground like subsequent shots on animals with 2 blade COC fixed heads. I prefer a good 2 blade for that reason.....incrementally better performance with the 2 blades...they just blow through stuff effortlessly.


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

Thanks for all the input. I have used standard three blade Muzzy heads for years out of my compound bow on deer with good success. But I am a total novice with regard to a recurve. I went with a 40 and 45 pound recurve because I didn't want to over bow myself and have poor form. I bought the 40 pound bow used and got some 1916 legacy arrows with 125 grain field points. I just recently purchased the 45 pound bow and the shop set me up with the Fleetwood carbon 400/s with 125 grain field tips. They said the BH is really a question of flight and I should try several, as long as they are at least 125 grain and fixed blade. I got some 135 grain Zwickey Eskilites from 3 rivers archery. They look very tough, but they have no edge. I am also going to purchase some 125 grain Montecs. I will post my flight results of the Zwickey and Montecs.


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

put your broadheads on the 1916s with the 45# bow & go huntin,, just sharpen the tips on the muzzys first.


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

Going to the range with the 3 blade Muzzy, 2 blade Zwickey Eskilites and the G5 Montecs. The Muzzy and G5 are 125 grain and the Zwickeys are 135 grain. I will be shooting all three heads with both the 1916 legacy and the 400 fleetwoods out of the 45 lbs bow to check for flight. I will be shooting indoors at 15 and 20 yards. Wish me luck and thanks again for all the advise. As a new traditional shooter I really need and it.


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## CAPTJJ (Dec 24, 2007)

Sorry, but without you shooting and tuning a bareshaft, there is no way for the shop to know a 125 grain BH is correct for you. 400 spine with 125 grains up from sounds a little stiff. Tune your setup, then pick a BH to match the point weight that tuned and you will get good BH flight and more importantly better penetration.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

I don't know how Rage got into the conversation, but since it's here. I never shot a Rage. I would never shoot that type of broadhead. "So you don't know anything about them." Oh contrar! I've had tracking dogs. Bridger my last dog was on 22 Rage broadhead trails. Found 5 of them. That's a very poor ratio compared to other heads. He was very good and in his time he found 22 deer and 4 bear. Would have found more if it wasn't for his trainer. LOL. He was actually training me.

Bowmania


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## BW1975 (Jul 14, 2017)

I like to shoot a sharp two blade regardless of bow weight. Muzzys a good tough head though. I prefer using glue on heads and steel inserts for a good heavy head.


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## Stickbowfan 112 (Mar 6, 2017)

Muzzy makes a great product,no reason why you cannot use them.


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

I went to the range today with 125 grain three blade montecs, 135 grain two blade Eskilites and 125 grain Muzzy three blades. I was shooting at 10 15 and 20 yards with a 45 pound recurve and 400 spine Fleetwood carbon arrows. The montecs and the Zwickeys grouped the same right with my field points. The Muzzy heads were a little low and to the left, but grouped well. I weighed all three heads. The montecs were 126, the Muzzy were 125 and the Zwickey were supposed to be 135 but actually weighed 150. So now I am more confused then ever. On the block target penetration between all three was about the same. Being a new trad shooter I am guessing I should use the heavier Zwickeys this fall ? Any advice, thanks in advance


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

Vincent, the test isn't if your broadhead group with your field point, it's if your broadheads group with a field point of the same weight as your broadhead.

Hope that helps. In addition, it's my opinion that you should be at least 20 yards. At 10 and 15 yards there's not enough distance/time for the untuned issue to unfold - if that makes sense to you.

Bowmania


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## GCook (Aug 22, 2016)

Bowmania we've had this discussion before. You had 22 tracks of 222,000 animals shot with Rage heads. I just killed a pig with one the other day. It was like blood was poured out on the ground and it barely got out of my sight.









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## 6bloodychunks (Oct 26, 2005)

im sorry,
but any shop that sold you .400s for a 45# recurve does not have even the slightest clue as to what they are talking about.

you would be better served with .600s and a handful of different point weights for testing. 


my #43-#45 howatt and browning recurves seem to prefer full length heavy 600s (cx heritage 90 shafts) with 145gn points.


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## 123 4/8 P&Y (Jul 10, 2008)

Some of you guys really like flimsy shafts!


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## Roof_Korean (Dec 19, 2018)

6bloodychunks said:


> im sorry,
> but any shop that sold you .400s for a 45# recurve does not have even the slightest clue as to what they are talking about.
> 
> you would be better served with .600s and a handful of different point weights for testing.
> ...


Im shooting a #45 bow with a 500 spine with 160 up front and its a bit weak.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

Keep testing OP.....until you get consistent results. Like weighted arrows BH/FP's should group...other wise not tuned. 

Strip the fletch off of one arrow to bare shaft with an FP and that will tell you tuned or not.

My 45# recurve [high energy] shoots 31" centershot 400's with the 50 gr insert and a 150 gr BH perfect.


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## 6bloodychunks (Oct 26, 2005)

Roof_Korean said:


> Im shooting a #45 bow with a 500 spine with 160 up front and its a bit weak.



disclaimer::: i know that no 2 bows are the same,
and the amount of centershot a bow has will dictate if it prefers a weaker or stiffer spine.


but,how do you know for sure its weak?
if by bareshafting could be the overspined shaft is giving a false weak reading.

ive driven myself crazy chasing a "false weak" bareshaft before. 

now i use super slow motion to video my arrows upon release,
it can diagnose many problems left unsolved by other tuning methods.


just my two cents. and probably worth about half that lol :darkbeer:


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## Roof_Korean (Dec 19, 2018)

6bloodychunks said:


> disclaimer::: i know that no 2 bows are the same,
> and the amount of centershot a bow has will dictate if it prefers a weaker or stiffer spine.
> 
> 
> ...


Bareshafts are clearly flying crooked to the right (im right handed). I have a plunger on this bow so im able to adjust its centershot and dynamic spine easily. Also i shot this same bow with 40 lb limbs and 100g tips same arrows and the bow was tuned well, maybe a little stiff. I went up in poundage and threw more weight up front because i didnt like shooting 300 grain arrows with a 45 lb (48 at my draw) bow. Im not positive, and personal technique can throw off tuning, but for me they are a bit stiff.


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## [email protected] (Nov 29, 2011)

Call 3Rivers and ask for advice on tuning your bow and arrows for field points and broadheads. Also look for youtubes on bow tuning. Just a suggestion. Muzzy makes a good phantom broadhead that is a two blade with insert that can be taken out if you want to. I have killed moose, bear and deer with this head with bows from 42pounds for the deer to 52 pounds for bear and moose.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

I'm surprised nobody has posted this link yet...https://www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning

In my opinion it is by far the easiest method to make sure you are getting the most out of your bow/arrow setup. Get your field points and bare shafts grouping together from at least 20 yards then swap the field points for same weight broadheads. For me, after tuning with bare shafts and fletched with field points broadheads always hit the same spot.

Three of these point weight tuning kits are very valuable in the process.https://www.3riversarchery.com/screw-in-field-point-test-kit-5-16.html 

Three sets gives you enough for three bare shafts and three fletched arrows. Tuning with point weight is easier than cutting shafts. You can use the information gathered to decide if you want to cut the shafts if you end up with more point weight than you are comfortable with.



I might have missed it as I read through your thread but your draw length and arrow length isn't stated. Sorry if I missed it but those two variables are very important.

I would caution about making a blanket statement that a .400 is too stiff for a 45# bow. It may be but a lot depends on centershot, draw length, arrow length and all the personal idiosyncrasies that go into shooting a stickbow. I shoot 30.5" .390s (ACC3-49) with 175 grain points out of my 45# recurve. Bare, fletched and broadheads all hit the same spot from 25 yards.


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

So far my 1916 legacy alum arrows are flying the best out of the 40 pound recurve with 100 grain filed tips and 100 grain G5 montecs. The 400 spine fleetwood carbon arrows are flying the best out of the 45 pound recurve with 125 grain field points. 125 grain montecs and 150 grain Zwickeys are also flying with field points at 10 15 and 20 yards. Muzzy 125 grain three blade are also flying good, but a little low and to the left. Being new to trad archery I would feel good using any of these heads.


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

20 yards is my max distance right now with trad equipment.


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

Right now my BH/s are grouping with my field points of equal weight.


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