# Developing and perfecting shot timing and rhythm



## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

I am looking for some drills to help me become more consistent with my shot timing. I shot my first indoor spot event over the weekend, Midwest Open. Once my nerves settled I found my best shots were those that happened around five seconds or less. When I held too long I was told by a friend that I began to shake (I could not feel this) and my shots missed left every time. Timed ends prevent too many let downs so I know I need to stop over-aiming and get a rhythm down to fire in that 5 second window when I know I’m in the “X”. 

Thanks for the help and advice.
Labs


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Can you describe the firing engine you use? What is your shot timing like in practice.

Grant


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Well, 

1. get rid of as much garbage in your shot routine as you can so that you aren't wasting time getting settled in and anchored and bringing the pin over to the spot.

2. 2. Develop a firing engine that is very well defined and specific so that you aren't standing there waiting for it to fire. You are running the engine and it is doing its job.

3. Then train with your firing engine specifically and work with it to produce the time frame that you desire.



I just came off surgery and am now shooting after a good 3 month break, I didn't really forget how to shoot but what I lost was all the finer points about my shot that allow me to be beyond smooth and subtle and run my engine without messing with the pin float and also shoot within my shot window at the proper time frame. It has taken me a few weeks to begin remembering all the little things that I do to achieve this and again it has been all a bout being very smooth and specific about what I am doing. 

In fact for me the transition from being on the thumb peg to being off of the thumb peg is beyond important. This weekend I finally really nailed down that simple process and my shooting is getting much more solid and I am firing in the first half of the shot window where I want to.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I am in your boat and hopefully gave you a look into how I am dealing with it but there is one more thing to consider, Training for when the time is running out and you have already let down one time and you must execute this shot and it is running nice and long. 

I have been each day when training shooting a hand full of shots where I come to anchor and settle in and then I start counting to 10 and I just stand there and float while I am counting. then when I get to 10 I then take my thumb off the peg and run my shot as my lungs are about to explode. I also do the drill where I come to anchor and remove the peg normally and then count to 10 before running my engine and firing the shot. 

All I can say is that this drill sucks beyond bad for me because I am a hold my breath shooter, but to me this simple little drill has proven to me that my float is pretty dang good especially when I am 15 seconds into the hold and about to explode. 

Before doing this drill I was so afraid of holding to long and I avoided it like the plague and if I had to hold a little long because the time was running out I was very freaked out and expecting something bad to happen. But now that I do this drill on a regular basis when the time comes where I have to execute and not let down I feel very comfortable with my ability to execute a really nice shot instead of being scared of it.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

grantmac said:


> Can you describe the firing engine you use? What is your shot timing like in practice.
> 
> Grant


I shoot a hinge, HBC. I use back tension to set up and hold but use rotation to fire the release. My shot timing in practice is right around the 5 second mark but even in practice I know I need to develop my consistency. The tournament environment, with the added nerves and pressure, really brought to my attention this flaw. When my friend brought it up to me yesterday morning it made me realize even more how my over aiming and poor rhythm/timing need to be fixed and worked on.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

Padgett said:


> Well,
> 
> 1. get rid of as much garbage in your shot routine as you can so that you aren't wasting time getting settled in and anchored and bringing the pin over to the spot.
> 
> ...


This makes a lot of sense, I did find myself over thinking my shots on Saturday so I decided to shoot Sunday with a clear mind and trust my practice. For the most part it went better aside from the shots I over aimed. I enjoyed my Sunday round much more and was more relaxed with a "quiet mind". I know I need to work on trusting my float and putting these things together; timing, trust and a relaxed state of mind.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Labs said:


> I am looking for some drills to help me become more consistent with my shot timing. I shot my first indoor spot event over the weekend, Midwest Open. Once my nerves settled I found my best shots were those that happened around five seconds or less. When I held too long I was told by a friend that I began to shake (I could not feel this) and my shots missed left every time. Timed ends prevent too many let downs so I know I need to stop over-aiming and get a rhythm down to fire in that 5 second window when I know I’m in the “X”.
> 
> Thanks for the help and advice.
> Labs


Nice event, the Midwest Open.

First, I'd say 5 seconds sort of minimal for a good shot and less not desirable as this is pretty close to snap shooting or drive-by shooting or could evoke such.

Shaking I've found due to more than holding too long. Too much draw weight, pulling into stops (limb stops), and overall bow fit and not that more couldn't be the cause.

Timed events? Try the ASA DAIR Indoor then you'll know what "timed" means. Yeah, 4 arrows in one minute. Doesn't matter the release, index, thumb or hinge I've seen many clean it with time to spare.

So give some information of bow set up, your height and whatever else you can think of.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Couple things that help. One is studying your float. Draw and hold at full draw and just watch what the pin is doing. Get very familiar and comfortable with it and know exactly the movements it takes. This will be you drawing and holding several times. Then start counting in your head and watching the float pattern. You'll notice a pattern of a certain time frame every time you are floating on target where you slow down the most. Mark this. This is when you want the shot to go off every time. Then look at how long it takes for the shot to break down. When you start floating irradically. Mark this as well, this is one of your let down marks. 

Then you need to set up and use the hinge the correct way. You need to be holding, drawing, and anchoring with the correct pressures in the fingers. Meaning with a purpose and a point as to why you have x amount of % of the weight in each finger against the release. You need to be more aggressive with this and the set up will change. Slowing the hinge down and becoming more aggressive on the set up. Then the release happens easier when you're under pressure because the muscles and nerves aren't keeping you from moving as much. We become tentative when we are under pressure. Setting up the release and using it wrong only magnifies this. 

I'll pm you my set up for a hinge and how to use one. How to distribute the pressures between fingers, how to draw with one, and how to execute with it.


Labs said:


> I shoot a hinge, HBC. I use back tension to set up and hold but use rotation to fire the release. My shot timing in practice is right around the 5 second mark but even in practice I know I need to develop my consistency. The tournament environment, with the added nerves and pressure, really brought to my attention this flaw. When my friend brought it up to me yesterday morning it made me realize even more how my over aiming and poor rhythm/timing need to be fixed and worked on.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

tagged, as I'm working on the same thing. Recently went back to compound full time and switched bows to my Hoyt this week, so lots of changes in my routine....

DM


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Labs said:


> I am looking for some drills to help me become more consistent with my shot timing. I shot my first indoor spot event over the weekend, Midwest Open. Once my nerves settled I found my best shots were those that happened around five seconds or less. When I held too long I was told by a friend that I began to shake (I could not feel this) and my shots missed left every time. Timed ends prevent too many let downs so I know I need to stop over-aiming and get a rhythm down to fire in that 5 second window when I know I’m in the “X”.
> 
> Thanks for the help and advice.
> Labs


If you just shot your first indoor spot tournament last weekend, then you have not been competing in that type of game long enough yet to be seriously thinking of your shot timing. You should still be working on smoothing your execution (and a little bit on form) under the influence of competition nerves. 

When and only when you have those down pat, then start looking at how to speed up and slow your shot timing to suit the type of spot game you'll be competing in. When you're at that stage, it is really fairly easy to shift gears from the slower NFAA 5-spot games to the burning rubber Vegas and LAS Classic types of games... When you're ready, I will even tell you how to do it without a back door pass and secret handshake.....:wink:


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Nice event, the Midwest Open.
> 
> First, I'd say 5 seconds sort of minimal for a good shot and less not desirable as this is pretty close to snap shooting or drive-by shooting or could evoke such.
> 
> ...


I am 6'4" and only shooting at 52 lbs for indoors. I shoot 62 lbs for 3D. I am shooting a cable stop bow (Prime One) and it is possible I am pulling too hard into the stops. I think my draw length is correct. I mentioned the shaking, I don't noticed it but others have brought it up to me. I was very consistent at hitting straight left whenever I held too long this past weekend. As for the 5 second mark simply a guess at this time. thanks


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

montigre said:


> If you just shot your first indoor spot tournament last weekend, then you have not been competing in that type of game long enough yet to be seriously thinking of your shot timing. You should still be working on smoothing your execution (and a little bit on form) under the influence of competition nerves.
> 
> When and only when you have those down pat, then start looking at how to speed up and slow your shot timing to suit the type of spot game you'll be competing in. When you're at that stage, it is really fairly easy to shift gears from the slower NFAA 5-spot games to the burning rubber Vegas and LAS Classic types of games... When you're ready, I will even tell you how to do it without a back door pass and secret handshake.....:wink:


I found out quickly that these are completely different nerves than those I've felt at an ASA event. I did find myself much more relaxed on the second day of this event and it was the Vegas face, 2 minutes per end. You mentioned smoothing my form and execution, this is why I'm trying the spot game, with the hope that it will help firm up my 3D game...time will tell but I am finding myself starting the like the spots more than I thought I would.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

montigre said:


> When you're ready, I will even tell you how to do it without a back door pass and secret handshake.....:wink:


I'll be interested in this too. That said, I do remember a tournament I shot this summer which was an NFAA 5-spot format, the time for each end was 4 minutes. But I was all done with my arrows before 2 minutes. It was nice, because I got to stand around and watch the other folks finish up. But I do remember 4 minutes seeming like an eternity. In practice, though, it always felt like I wasn't getting my shots off fast enough. So I'll even learn the secret handshake if required for this info just in case... 

DM


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Agreed, don't keep us in suspense haha


dmacey said:


> I'll be interested in this too. That said, I do remember a tournament I shot this summer which was an NFAA 5-spot format, the time for each end was 4 minutes. But I was all done with my arrows before 2 minutes. It was nice, because I got to stand around and watch the other folks finish up. But I do remember 4 minutes seeming like an eternity. In practice, though, it always felt like I wasn't getting my shots off fast enough. So I'll even learn the secret handshake if required for this info just in case...
> 
> DM





montigre said:


> If you just shot your first indoor spot tournament last weekend, then you have not been competing in that type of game long enough yet to be seriously thinking of your shot timing. You should still be working on smoothing your execution (and a little bit on form) under the influence of competition nerves.
> 
> When and only when you have those down pat, then start looking at how to speed up and slow your shot timing to suit the type of spot game you'll be competing in. When you're at that stage, it is really fairly easy to shift gears from the slower NFAA 5-spot games to the burning rubber Vegas and LAS Classic types of games... When you're ready, I will even tell you how to do it without a back door pass and secret handshake.....:wink:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Labs said:


> I found out quickly that these are completely different nerves than those I've felt at an ASA event. I did find myself much more relaxed on the second day of this event and it was the Vegas face, 2 minutes per end. You mentioned smoothing my form and execution, this is why I'm trying the spot game, with the hope that it will help firm up my 3D game...time will tell but I am finding myself starting the like the spots more than I thought I would.


You're 100% correct--the type of nerves are totally different and there's another type still that hit you when you're in a shoot off. It is with indoor archery that you learn to work with these nerves and hone the mental aspect of your game. 

Then work on those two aspects for a month or two. Forget about score right now except as a general gauge of your progress. Get really rock solid with your execution and make sure your form is not changing when you're feeling the nerves a bit. A lot of newer spot shooters when nervous get really tight in their whole body and close down and start taking slow shallow breaths--they actually look like they have shrunk. Remind yourself to stand straight and tall, keep your head over your front shoulder and bring the string to your face (not the other way around) and above all, breathe.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

montigre said:


> You're 100% correct--the type of nerves are totally different and there's another type still that hit you when you're in a shoot off. It is with indoor archery that you learn to work with these nerves and hone the mental aspect of your game.
> 
> Then work on those two aspects for a month or two. Forget about score right now except as a general gauge of your progress. Get really rock solid with your execution and make sure your form is not changing when you're feeling the nerves a bit. A lot of newer spot shooters when nervous get really tight in their whole body and close down and start taking slow shallow breaths--they actually look like they have shrunk. Remind yourself to stand straight and tall, keep your head over your front shoulder and bring the string to your face (not the other way around) and above all, breathe.


Breathing is what saved me this past weekend...been studying some "mental game" techniques. I will continue to work on form and execution and we'll see how I progress as I've signed up for the Iowa Pro Am and the Vegas shoot. I guess I jumped in with both feet...going in with the mind set to simply learn and grow...we'll see where it takes me...thanks for help


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## blackduck889 (Oct 12, 2006)

tag for later


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I can not believe that I didn't see that you were dealing with the midwest open and it being your biggest shoot ever, that changes everything. To me these types of shoots you have got to be honest with yourself and treat them as:

1. I am going to attend and treat the big shoot as a learning experience and enjoy the weekend.

2. What is my normal shooting ability, once I am honest with myself I am going to shoot smoothly and hopefully see that same score at the big tournament nothing more or less.

3. Once I get to a variety of these for a couple years the experience will become common and my ability to score will improve.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

Padgett said:


> I can not believe that I didn't see that you were dealing with the midwest open and it being your biggest shoot ever, that changes everything. To me these types of shoots you have got to be honest with yourself and treat them as:
> 
> 1. I am going to attend and treat the big shoot as a learning experience and enjoy the weekend.
> 
> ...


Padgett-that exactly the mind set I went into the tournament with and my plan for the upcoming tournaments. I've set my baseline at the first tournament and will continue to work from there. I've got some great advice to work on in the mean time. Right now I am looking at spots as a way to become a more solid 3d shooter. I am coming up on my 4th year in the competitive archery games but my age (47) has me in the "teaching an old dog new tricks" category. I sure do wish I would have been introduced to this sport 20 years ago...thanks for chiming in and good luck with you continued recovery...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Wish you luck. 47? Pup.... I never picked up a bow until I was 50. Never shot a state sanctioned anything until I was 54 and took 2nd in the IAA 3D Championship. Tied the IAA 3D High Overall Score the same year at the IAA Rendezvous. I was 55 years old when I won IAA State Field/Hunter Champion in Senior Adult Free Style. And this not even a drop in the bucket when you figure Dave Barnsdale won Vegas as a old geezer and shooting a standard diameter carbon arrow. 2005, I think, was when Senior Pro Steve Boylan, 55 years old, won the NFAA Triple Crown. I always tell this. Steve is a few months younger than I am. We were at a club 3D and Steve went down a hill to pull my arrows. This guy comes up and says; "Do you know who he is? He's the NFAA Triple Crown Champion and you're having him pull your arrows." I told the guy; "So, Steve's younger than I am."

47 years old? Why do people consider that old? 47 years old I was still climbing in the middle of broncs and taking on barn sour horses that would try to kill me. I thought it was fun. 66 years old, I try to keep my 750 Virago under 80 and still pull wheelies....when the wife isn't around. She'd hurt me...


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Wish you luck. 47? Pup.... I never picked up a bow until I was 50. Never shot a state sanctioned anything until I was 54 and took 2nd in the IAA 3D Championship. Tied the IAA 3D High Overall Score the same year at the IAA Rendezvous. I was 55 years old when I won IAA State Field/Hunter Champion in Senior Adult Free Style. And this not even a drop in the bucket when you figure Dave Barnsdale won Vegas as a old geezer and shooting a standard diameter carbon arrow. 2005, I think, was when Senior Pro Steve Boylan, 55 years old, won the NFAA Triple Crown. I always tell this. Steve is a few months younger than I am. We were at a club 3D and Steve went down a hill to pull my arrows. This guy comes up and says; "Do you know who he is? He's the NFAA Triple Crown Champion and you're having him pull your arrows." I told the guy; "So, Steve's younger than I am."
> 
> 47 years old? Why do people consider that old? 47 years old I was still climbing in the middle of broncs and taking on barn sour horses that would try to kill me. I thought it was fun. 66 years old, I try to keep my 750 Virago under 80 and still pull wheelies....when the wife isn't around. She'd hurt me...


Thanks Sonny, I don't feel old it's just what I'm told by my kids...lol 

I does suck to have to have cheaters available to adjust my sight but it's better than needing glasses to see at distance. It's a ton of fun still being involved in a competitive sport and it does not frustrate me nearly as much as the game of golf does...


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I think Sonny does more before 9am than most of us other older folks do all year. 

DM


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

dmacey said:


> I think Sonny does more before 9am than most of us other older folks do all year.
> 
> DM


What? Just in from setting up a .30/30 with scope and sighting in. One of those Henry brass lever action rifles. 3 shots touching at 100 yards. Pretty good for a .30/30. Did practice a bit with my bow and start to install a DIT ArcTec (a little long, so have to cut a bit off). Doubt that it will make a difference. Set a target to see how torque tuning works out. But lunch first.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

Update...making progress with form and execution. Just working on the blank bale for now trying to get a comfortable and repeatable form. Execution is going to take some work but it's working...afraid of what may happen when I get back in front of a target but I will study and understand my float a little better then too...we'll see how things progress, thanks again for those who offered advice.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Don't be in a hurry to get infront of a target. It's boring. It can be a long process. But if you'll take the right steps it's worth it. Blank bale till you can run your shot without thinking about it every time. Then incorporate a target and stand 3-5 yards away and shoot at that target one arrow at a time. Keep going and tweaking the right elements until you can shoot the same spot every single arrow without thinking about it. Then move back 2 yards and repeat. Until you get to 20. It helps you fine tune your equipment and yourself. And it boosts your mental confidence to nothing you've ever had before. You'll know without thinking about the shot that you can nail the spot every single time and you won't worry anymore about the what if's.


Labs said:


> Update...making progress with form and execution. Just working on the blank bale for now trying to get a comfortable and repeatable form. Execution is going to take some work but it's working...afraid of what may happen when I get back in front of a target but I will study and understand my float a little better then too...we'll see how things progress, thanks again for those who offered advice.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, when you think you're ready there is the transfer thing, blank bale, target, blank bale, target. Once you have the transfer.....This by Terry Wunderle, pretty top notch coach.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Well, when you think you're ready there is the transfer thing, blank bale, target, blank bale, target. Once you have the transfer.....This by Terry Wunderle, pretty top notch coach.


Thanks Sonny, his book is my go to text, seems I learn a little something each time I read through it...


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Last night I had my best night of shooting since my surgery, I shot a 299 24x vegas round and on the second half I only missed one baby x. Right now for me every time I step up to the line I feel totally different than the last time I was there, my execution is slightly off and timing is weird and very spread out in the shot window very early or very late. My float is a open the box and see what is inside each and every shot. 

But 

On the second half of the vegas round last night I had 3 of the ends where I shot three inside out baby x's and each of the three shots that trip to the shooting line felt exactly the same. the timing and feel in my system and everything in my shot was perfect for those three shots, but then the next three shots even though perfect inside out x's the shot felt slightly different. 

So for me I tried to do some reflection on the 30 minute drive home on the couple of good feels that I had from head to toe physically and mentally so that today I can try and duplicate those feelings and make one of them my standard feel every time I walk up to the line. Last year on two occasions I was able to nail down a specific feel and produce it for a good month at a time and execute that feel almost 100% of the time, for me it was the best shooting indoor I have ever experienced. It isn't a guarantee that you are going to hit every x but to me it gives me the possibility and very high probability that it is going to happen every time.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Padgett, what areas are you varying in from shot to shot that is changing? 

I know you said the feel is different, but have you been able to pin point why the feel is different? What elements are changing shot to shot?

I know that's not always easy to do, especially in your situation coming back from the injury. 

Last time I came back to shooting from a small lay off I was all over the place at first as well and started trying to change a couple things to help and wasn't finding much success. I could feel it was off and obviously see the results were off, but couldn't pin point why. 

Then one day I decided to record myself shooting and studied that. I saw some small alignment problems and differences in my form from how I normally was. I went back and forth from an old recording I had of myself too and that helped see differences as well. 

What I'm getting at is more, you had a system and shot that was working for you prior, so do you think it's possible to go back to that and use the same form, shot process, body alignment that you had prior? Or are you going to have to adapt to something new now and build a different platform because of the injury?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

It isn't that I forgot things, it is more that my body feels like it is turned off to all the little finer points of being accurate. Almost like I am numb all over and all of my little circuits have been switched off and need to be turned back on so that I can feel everything. I am just now getting to the point where I can actually shoot for a few hours without any pain or fatigue so I can start shooting every day and hopefully get all of those subtle feelings turned back on so that I can feel them doing their job and manage them accordingly. 

When I am shooting really good everything from head to toe has a feel to it and when something isn't right my systems check tells me instantly and I can get that area back on task or let down but right now it is like I am blind to a high percentage of them. But last night I did for the first time start feeling them all being activated and that was mainly on the second half of the vegas round.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Can't really speak for Padgett, but when you have a injury and surgery to correct it things change and to get back can take some time or adjustment. It's been a battle for me, but I'm getting better....I actually started having fun just recently. Just wish the fun would come more often....


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I actually think I lucked out and have no issues surgery related to my shooting other than time off, I am a very high volume shooter and normally shoot 7 days a week every week. My bow is in my truck at all times and I have targets at home and my moms house and the bow shop and my buddies are asa shooters so everywhere I go is a target. I usually shoot at a very consistent level during the year with no bad weeks, I do have some good months or weeks per year where I shoot much better than my standard level and normally they are in the winter when I am going to the bow shop almost 5 days a week and shooting after work until they close. That is when my entire system becomes 100% involved and regulated to very nice smooth shot sequence. 

You guys know that I work with hundreds of shooters and I do feel a responsibility to be proficient in all of the methods that I choose to present to them so I do train with a variety of firing engines and thumb triggers and hinges. What I notice when I am really strong is that my shooting doesn't care what release is in my hand because my shooting form and aiming are seperate from the release and what I am doing to fire it. That allows me to shoot basically the same with all of them and the method I choose to use. Right now at my current level I can only shoot with one of my hinges, my backspin. With it I am approaching solid shooting and am waiting for my systems to all be activated so that I can move on to normal or hopefully even better shooting. 

I have actually kind of decided to go ahead and give most of my hinges to some of my friends and people that I work with, for example I am giving my hbc to ladybowhunter12 the next time I shoot with her so that she can spend some time with it. I have been wanting to commit to one specific hinge for a couple years so I am just going to let them use my other ones this winter.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

Totally makes sense. It's been a while thankfully since I've had to come back to anything after a surgery and I couldn't remember what it's all like. I do know that certain things I had to adapt due to lack of range of motion. It seemed like it mostly came back over time, or I've just adapted and forgotten maybe haha 

The feel of things is the hardest thing to come by and keep in sports. When you're on and it's effortless it's a great feeling though!


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

RCRIII

I really enjoyed yesterdays little conversation that we had on the front arm, did you add anything to it once I left work?


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I don't believe so. I think the front arm position has a lot to do with the shot type. I'm not a pull through only shooter, but I do have an active shot. Just meaning I expand and have an active follow through. So I think that's why I prefer an outward arm and low shoulder. It opens my back up. 

Now if I didn't and I had a more stagnant shot where I pull and hold at full draw in a certain position and only manipulate a release, then the locked in front arm would work. Where the shoulder is back and the back is compressed a little more. 

I know that's your preferred shot type. And it works for sure. 

I've heard Dudley talk about it before in podcasts and his articles. Same concepts. I've tried the shoulder back and a stagnant shot. I shot with it on my higher let off cams. But since switching to spirals, I've changed to a much more active and almost aggressive shot to match the cams and bow systems I use. 

The float is probably smaller/ slower with a locked in arm. Because you're body isn't moving as much. But I've gotten my bow and form to allow me a small and good float as well and then I've learned to not pay attention if it looks normal and just let my subconscious line my body up and put the pin in the middle while the shot breaks. 

It's just different styles that work for different archers I believe.


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## archeryshooter (Apr 11, 2004)

Nice read guys I would like to add I am going through the same things and shot the Midwest as well am am 55 too. I also seem to feel like when I think to much how my shots are feeling that it makes my shots not want to go. Do you guys notice that too.


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## archeryshooter (Apr 11, 2004)

Like RCR said about the subconscious when I do that it works much better but when we train we also need to be aware of what we are doing. So when do we make the change or do we.


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

another update--after 6 consecutive days of only a blank bale I can "feel" progress, if that's possible. I am feeling more comfortable with my form and execution to the extent that as my sessions progress I find myself "thinking" less and just "doing". I am planning on another day of blank bale only then two days with a mix of targets and blank bale. I am shooting the Iowa Pro Am with my only goal going in to it being that I show improvement and stick to concentrating on my form and execution...and to have fun with it...thanks again for all of your input and Happy New Year...


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

That's great to hear you're feeling progress. When you start back at the target. Shoot very close up. 5 yards. Work on being able to allow your natural float to put you in the middle each and every shot. Then, when you are able to do this without worries move back another two yards and keep going till you're out to 20. This will give you the continued mental strength to trust your float and your shot process and you will still score well.


Labs said:


> another update--after 6 consecutive days of only a blank bale I can "feel" progress, if that's possible. I am feeling more comfortable with my form and execution to the extent that as my sessions progress I find myself "thinking" less and just "doing". I am planning on another day of blank bale only then two days with a mix of targets and blank bale. I am shooting the Iowa Pro Am with my only goal going in to it being that I show improvement and stick to concentrating on my form and execution...and to have fun with it...thanks again for all of your input and Happy New Year...


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm always aware of what's happening with the shot. Letting your subconscious take control of the body and line up your pin/dot doesn't mean you stop being aware. It just means that you trust in your process enough to allow it to happen. Once you start you keep going, unless something occurs that triggers you to let down and start over again, then you look back at the shot and do your best to find out what went wrong and correct it as soon as possible.


archeryshooter said:


> Like RCR said about the subconscious when I do that it works much better but when we train we also need to be aware of what we are doing. So when do we make the change or do we.


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## Xinc. (Dec 3, 2015)

base your timing around your breathing , base your breathing around your stops


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I just had my bow blow up and had to set up a different one, my limb pocket broke on my old specialist. So I had to strip it down and throw everything on my cpxl, I spent the last couple days getting it dead on and today I actually am getting confident in it so I slowed down and actually worked on my shot timing. Why, because it feels a little different and my hinge wasn't firing the same as with my specialist. I also set the peep a little lower and raised my anchor just a little so overall the whole feel of the bow is different. So today I focused on my shot sequence and smoothing it out and getting a consistent feel and it took a good 30 minutes but then it smoothed out and started feeling really good. For me it came down to getting to anchor and settling in and finding the subtle finger pressures in my release hand that allow me to transition from being on the peg to off the peg and then running my firing engine smoothly. 

I finally felt like 75% of the time I was able to execute shots with that feel which is something I haven't been able to do since my doctor released me to shoot, Tomorrow is a cool day because I am curious if I can step up and start right where I left off and feel the same good shots. If I do it is a victory and time well spent.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The hinge not firing probably had very little to do with your shot timing, but as you discovered was a direct result of your bow set up. You went from a fairly traditional bow with the Specialist to a rather agressive parallel limb bow with the CPXL. The diffence the the two bows' geometries alone would have caused some hang ups and changes with your release firing. 

It is just about impossible to get the same feel from two identical set ups let alone two that are totally different. :wink:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Xinc. said:


> base your timing around your breathing , base your breathing around your stops


But if you base your timing around your breathing, what do you do during those thimes when you find yourself totally immersed in the zone, the target is a big as a barn door, your breathing is very slow and rhythmic, and you have just 2 mins to get your 3 arrows off? If you based everything on the cadence of your breathing, you'd probably still have an arrow on your rest when the buzzer sounded....


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## Xinc. (Dec 3, 2015)

montigre said:


> But if you base your timing around your breathing, what do you do during those thimes when you find yourself totally immersed in the zone, the target is a big as a barn door, your breathing is very slow and rhythmic, and you have just 2 mins to get your 3 arrows off? If you based everything on the cadence of your breathing, you'd probably still have an arrow on your rest when the buzzer sounded....


Always shoot in the zone ?

Then practice getting 5/6 shots off in 2 minutes - very rare for a double let down - if you can't its better to take a 0 as opposed to taking a bad shot 
I never shoot for score with out a clock running , ever , whats the point ? 
You have to think about something while you shoot , why not your breath ? 
My entire shot is set up around my breathing. 
I can control my breathing on the line , to the point I have brought people to cussing out loud due to the noise of deep slow breathing 
( added bonus ) 
If need be , simple maths will get you started - bring your self to a clam , how many breaths do you take in 2 minutes / how many breaths do you take in each shot - now you know your amount of extra breath you have between shots - Make adjustments as needed 
For most people 3 shots in practice takes way less time than your first and last 3 ends in a tourney - 
My ideal is to keep practice shot the same as game day shot- 

Its a lot easier not to think about score when you are counting the air you breath - 
Out side of the ticking clock , the most reliable thing you can count on standing on the line is that you will in fact be breathing , breathing is important ya know


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## Labs (Jun 3, 2004)

RCR_III said:


> That's great to hear you're feeling progress. When you start back at the target. Shoot very close up. 5 yards. Work on being able to allow your natural float to put you in the middle each and every shot. Then, when you are able to do this without worries move back another two yards and keep going till you're out to 20. This will give you the continued mental strength to trust your float and your shot process and you will still score well.


I attended the Iowa Pro Am which is my second "big" spots event. My goal going into "spots" was to improve my 3D shooting. Well, now I'm getting hooked on these events too. I did improve my scores but more importantly I had many more shots that felt good this weekend and knowing what to expect at the event I felt a little more confident in the whole experience. 300 w/45 x's on Sat. and a 308 Vegas face on Sun. Plenty to continue working on between now a Vegas but I am enjoying the ride and learning a lot more than I expected. Thanks again to all that have helped along the way, I appreciate it!!


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