# Lizard tongue wear



## Itsderekcarter (Dec 22, 2014)

My trophy taker lizard tongue is only wearing on the left split. Any ideas on what causes this?


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Possibly you don't have it at center shot.


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## Stringster (Aug 12, 2014)

That would be the rest is not centered correctly. Have you paper tuned it and seen if it is kicking at all?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

It seems to happen to me no matter how well tuned my bow is. 

Most releases induce a tiny bit of sideways push on the nock. It's not much, you can't even see it at normal speeds, you have to have slow motion video to see it. But it's there and it's enough to cause the uneven wear you are seeing.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

way to stiff spined arrows fletched wild..........
next time before you cut your arrows try to come closer to nominal spine fit to your DW
next time you fletch your arrows put the stiff spine on top


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Vast majority of times it's center shot off.....Severe enough or arrows shot enough, look for drag marks on arrow shafts.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> Vast majority of times it's center shot off.....Severe enough or arrows shot enough, look for drag marks on arrow shafts.


do a french tune, in one step take care of many possible problems or at least minimize the problems what were not really so visible earlier


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bigHUN said:


> do a french tune, in one step take care of many possible problems or at least minimize the problems what were not really so visible earlier


Yes, but don't tell some people that or they'll "raise the roof" 

Actually, I came back in too note something of French tuning. Okay, here goes. My theory; If center shot is set correctly, then the arrow should come out of the bow at it's cleanest, with the least resistance, which should be the fastest for the arrow. So having nothing to do I got out my chronograph. I used my hunting bow for the test vehicle which was French tuned. I already knew it shot great and the fastest it gave was 270 fps with a 380 gr arrow. I moved the rest off horizontally and got 260 fps or there of. So I started moving the rest until I got 270 fps. I kept moving the until speed fell off again. So I moved the rest back until I got 270 fps again. 
So I checked with by running the French tune procedure. I was dead on (+ or -) at 9 feet and a tad off at 50 yards. I don't think I made a "hair's" worth correction and I was dead on at both 9 feet and 50 yards. Checked with the chronograph and still had 270 fps. 
Not done. I got my collection of fixed broadheads. 15 years of archery and you get collection. Every fixed blade broadhead found the X ring out to my imposed hunting limit of 40 yards. My wife, bless her heart, she sees these K-Mart specials on sale and buys two packages of them. They RealTree Chiz-L and the low profile Gunnison. I'm on the RealTree forums and I asked. By answers I received these weren't worth the package they in. So I had them and I tried them. They hit dead on with my other broadheads. So I killed three deer with them, one being the 11 point, 250 pound buck two years ago.

So my fixed broadheads hit with my field points and none of my hunting arrows are spine indexed in any manner whatsoever. Yep, fletched any way they go in the jig. And I don't square arrow ends either.

Anyway, all my bows are accurate, I've posted enough pictures to show they are and I've enough competition awards on the wall to give further proof.

One thing I've advocated is if something works for you use it.


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## fanio (Feb 1, 2011)

What arrows are you using Sonny? Some brands / arrows are better than others when it comes to "needing" spine indexing...


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Tagged


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

fanio said:


> What arrows are you using Sonny? Some brands / arrows are better than others when it comes to "needing" spine indexing...


For hunting I use the old Carbon Express CX300. For target and 3D I've used the better grades. CX300 Selects (.0025"), CXL 150 and 250 (.0025") from the time they came out. Victory HV 350 and X Killers (.001"). Harvest Time Archery HT3 (.001"). Muddy Outdoors HT (.001"). Blood Sport formed under Muddy Outdoors and a classer HT3 called Virtue (.001"). Blood Sport dropped the HT .355" size so I've went with Deer Crossing Archery Target Series, .350" (.001).
Old and new tests; 3 years ago I set up the Carbon Express Rebel (.005") and we killed 5 spot X rings from 30 yards. Recently, right before my accident, I tried the German made Absolute 22. in 350 spine and straightness of .003" - these I floated in soapy water. Cold, I sighted in fast and then shot the 6 arrows, two groups from 20 yards. Here's picture, note 2nd group and reshot 5th arrow.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

aread said:


> It seems to happen to me no matter how well tuned my bow is.
> 
> Most releases induce a tiny bit of sideways push on the nock. It's not much, you can't even see it at normal speeds, you have to have slow motion video to see it. But it's there and it's enough to cause the uneven wear you are seeing.


sorry guys im not buying the answers...no disrespect intended.. like the above post says ; i have seen this for some years now not only on a lizards but even on a whisker b....and i have not found one person that can explain it one theory is the above post, from allen which i know is a man who knows archery.i have seen lots of bows the same way, talked to many bow tecs who cant figure it out . perfect tuned bow** they still show wear on the left..other theory is the face, little deep in string and it whips to the left even on some, xxx stiff shafts perfect bare shaft, perfect french tune, still wears on the left..perfect spine arrows same results..perfect tuned..the other theory its wearing on the draw back you ever watch the bounce while drawing? another theory riser flexing ..but i have been watching the prime bows for some time now. and im still watching the same results..even from top shooters so [raise the roof as sonny says] so im not buying the spine issue, or the center shot issue.. im watching the hamskea rest very close it a new design but i noticed the tongue is bent some to give some sideways support.. but most of them i see are set up to drop.. [ if you dont like the results of your shooting you better change the way you practice ! ] just my .02 mike


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

The string goes not travel in a straight line. There is a small amount of horizontal knock travel. So the arrow will always wear the blade unevenly.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

To add to that. The softer the spine, the more the paradox. Even on a compound bow. All be it ever so small.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

there is no paradox for compound bows shot with a release. that's a finger release concept.

sideways wear is a function of centreshot being out, or cam lean. you may or may not be able to do anything about that depending on the bow design, sometimes it's compromise.


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok, wrong use of a word. There will always be horizontal arrow movement at the rest. It's a product of the bow twisting in the hand. If it wasn't so then your sight pin would line up with the string at brace.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

the arrow might leave the bow at an angle to a theoretical straight line, but it still departs in a straight line. (I'm not conducting a silly argument over microns here, and they won't show in rest witness marks even if so.)


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## duc (Jul 18, 2009)

Er...........the arrow rides on one side of the rest when the bow twists back to brace. It doesn't need to do it by much but it does. It only needs the weight of the arrow, abrading over time, to show a witness mark. Does a plunger button show any sign of wear??


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Just a guess. Maybe at the release of the arrow the bow tries to align with the forearm of the bow hand. This would cause a right handed shooter to have wear on the left side of the rest and a left handed shooter would have wear on the right side of the rest.

So how does a rest wear for a left handed shooter?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Uneven wear of a lizard tongue is caused by something off, period. Years back I shot prong style rests, Bodoodles and QuikTune 3000s. I know beyond doubt it takes thousands upon thousands of shots to create wear in a short period of time. If the rest/bow is set properly the arrow goes straight through the rest. If someone induces torque that would make a bow correct it's self when shot, the shooter has a problem, not the bow. 

Lateral string travel is side movement from bow at rest to bow fully draw, but the string still travels a straight line.

There is no real archer's paradox with a compound when using a mechanical release. A straight line is a straight line. If a paradox then something is wrong and fishtailing should show. If a paradox exists it exists in the vertical plane. In most cases this would the arrow coming out the bow nock high. So high is good and too high gives porpoising. Low is bad as the arrow is driving into the arrow rest....

Too lazy to pull the rest off my retired 3D bow, but if I did, the same prong rest has been on this bow for at least 5 years and what wear shows is equal. I literally abused the rest, tortured it with I don't know how much testing of different arrows. With any arrow I used the bow was always French tuned (center shot) and rest tuned for height. 100,000 thousand shots maybe...


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