# 8190 or 452x



## Deer Eliminator (Jan 21, 2010)

Yes it does have creep it is not totally stable
*8190 Universal Bowstring*
The toughest bowstring material ever made. Stability, speed, safety, durability, reliability. 

*The lowest creep EVER in 100% Dyneema*[SUP]®[/SUP]
The world's strongest H.M.P.E.
- Made from DSM's SK90 Dyneema[SUP]®[/SUP]
GORE[SUP]®[/SUP] fiber added for even higher durability
Smaller diameter strand for highest speed.
24 strands = 18 of 8125.
 452X Bowstring
67% SK75 Dyneema®, 33% Vectran. Slightly higher arrow speed. More strand count flexibility and improved looking two color strings. *No creep*; completely stable. Available in 45 colors.

Recommended strands: 20-24 for compound bows
Approx ft/lb waxed: 8800
Spool sizes: 1 lb, 1/4 lb, 1/8 lb 


Hutch


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## Dbyrum72 (Feb 14, 2010)

Thanks for the response. I have ordered 8190 from lancaster. Its on backorder so hopefully i can call Monday and change to the 452x.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1787509

nothing wrong with both those materials, 8190 new for 2012 and 452x a long time proven material for years


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## Dbyrum72 (Feb 14, 2010)

Being new to building strings. I want to get things right the first time. Material is too high to buy twice


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

I have to disagree since I've used both 8190 and 452x on my competition bows this year and have not noticed any creep in either string. I do use pre stretched 60X string and cables and I have not noticed any difference except the 8190 is was about 6fps faster. Talk to Brad at 60X and he has several shooters shooting both strings and he can most likely give you a better opinion...


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## Dbyrum72 (Feb 14, 2010)

Sounds good. I may keep the 8190. Just need more hands on info


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

For starting out, I think a blended material like 452x is a little better option. I was in the same boat trying to figure out what to use a started with straight dyneema. I have found the blended materials a little easier as far as pre-stretching and getting lengths right. Once built they just don't move.


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## Dbyrum72 (Feb 14, 2010)

Cool. I will be going with the 452x. Thanks guys


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

I'm doing a test between 8190 and 452x I put them out in the sun yesterday and it was 103 degrees and they were on the stectcher at 350lbs for an hour and they both gained a 1/4 inch and both were prestrechted before they were put in the sun I'm going to put them back in the sun and see if they keep growing in know there's nothing scientific about my test but I was very surprised how well 8190 did I figured 8190 would have not even been close to 452x in the heat


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

Interesting info. I would have figured the 452 to hold a little better than the 8190. Just curious how you performed the test, did you have the string built on the stretcher already up to tension then take it outside or have the strings built then took them outside and put on the stretcher?

I played around with the XS2 also trying to warm it up to see what would happen and it definitely responded well. Lots of good material options out there!


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

It was a string that was built but not served.it was built too long so I just sat them to the side so maybe I could use later and it has been so hot here I figured I would do a test and see which one would take the heat better and both strings were prestretched at 350lbs before being put in the heat.the wax looked like water coming out of the strings I'm going to leave them out for a few days and see what happens. My test may not be real accurate but I will have an idea about what's going on. I was real surprised in the 8190


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

I'd be interested to see how they both measure after a recovery period.


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

I have had the 8190 on the stectcher all day in the sun and it has lost no poundage I'm going to let set for one more day then I'm going to put the 452x on it and see what happens


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## bowguru.com (Jul 26, 2009)

I see less fuzzing with 8190 and a like using it on bows with cable slides i've been seeing less wear in those spots.


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## slamdam (Oct 10, 2006)

I put 8190 on and went to Kansas in 106 degrees and they moved went to Illinois for the asa and they moved tuesday and was fine Wednesday thru Friday and noticed the buss stretched Saturday and didn't move sunday. I'm not sold on 8190 prolly gonna go back to 452x


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## Dbyrum72 (Feb 14, 2010)

Im happy that i got ahold of lancaster before they shipped and awapped for 452x. Thanks for everyones input.


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## slamdam (Oct 10, 2006)

I got a bow made outta 8190 that I am gonna use it for the classic in Yankton. I've shot it prolly 400 times and left it in the car for 5 days of 100 plus temps and put it on a hooter shooter last night in 65 degree temp the whole night and checked it this am an the buss stretched a 1/8" on the cam marks. I am done with 8190. For saying that it's no creep is complete BS


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

slamdam said:


> I got a bow made outta 8190 that I am gonna use it for the classic in Yankton. I've shot it prolly 400 times and left it in the car for 5 days of 100 plus temps and put it on a hooter shooter last night in 65 degree temp the whole night and checked it this am an the buss stretched a 1/8" on the cam marks. I am done with 8190. For saying that it's no creep is complete BS


BCY only claims lowest creep from a straight dyneema, not no creep so there isn't really any misleading there. Now on the other hand Brownell actually claims no creep from there straight dyneema astro and XS2.


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## 48archer (Mar 19, 2009)

I build strings and i am by far no expert but i cant see any material holding up by either setting your bow in a car for 5 days in 100+ degree temps or letting it out in the sun for a period of time, i might be wrong but it sounds to me that what ever wax that is in the fibers is melting and coming out of the fibers under tension and that what might be causing the strings to creep some.


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## jaredc (Mar 23, 2008)

I have to agree...I was thinking that an 1/8th of an inch is actually pretty good considering the environment. 452x is my go to material but I wouldn't place a bet that it wouldn't creep under those conditions.


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

All I'm trying to do is a comparison of the two materials.nobody ought to leave a bow in a car when its hot or leave a string on a jig at 350lbs in the sun for days when you build them I'm just trying to put them through more then they will ever see on a bow just to see how they preform and if it can take all I'm putting them through then it should be a good material for a bow I think everybody pretty much knows 452x is king in stability


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## jloar (Feb 10, 2010)

Glad to see someone doing this test. I bet many of us on here are interested to hear your results. Thanks for doing it.


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## slamdam (Oct 10, 2006)

48archer said:


> I build strings and i am by far no expert but i cant see any material holding up by either setting your bow in a car for 5 days in 100+ degree temps or letting it out in the sun for a period of time, i might be wrong but it sounds to me that what ever wax that is in the fibers is melting and coming out of the fibers under tension and that what might be causing the strings to creep some.


When it continues to stretch or creep. I got a buddy that has 452x and he never had any issues


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

jaredc said:


> I have to agree...I was thinking that an 1/8th of an inch is actually pretty good considering the environment. 452x is my go to material but I wouldn't place a bet that it wouldn't creep under those conditions.


agree thats alot of torture and about any material will have some movement with that harsh a test


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## cuttingedge (Feb 19, 2005)

452X is dang good. I have actually been building a few strings using 8125, and the cables using 452x. I'm not seeing any issues with the 8125...

I love 452X, but some of the solid colored spools I have received appear to barely have any wax on them. This makes fraying during the build process occur much easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slamdam (Oct 10, 2006)

I'm gonna go to 8125 and 452x


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

cuttingedge said:


> 452X I love 452X, but some of the solid colored spools I have received appear to barely have any wax on them. This makes fraying during the build process occur much easier.


you just have to be more careful, i always use low wax myself and its not an issue, you dont want all that wax on during build since you burnish excess off anyways. just be careful while burnishing and youll be fine


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

Well after 24 hours on the stretcher at 350lbs and in the heat the 8190 creeped 5/8 of an inch the 452x has been on the stretcher since 4:30 yesterday and its going to set on it till 4:30 today I checked this morning and it hadn't budged. I did notice that when I pulled the 8190 off the stretcher and measured it right then then let it sit all night then measured it the measurments were the same it did not draw up any after stretching


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Joseph McCluske said:


> I have to disagree since I've used both 8190 and 452x on my competition bows this year and have not noticed any creep in either string. I do use pre stretched 60X string and cables and I have not noticed any difference except the 8190 is was about 6fps faster. Talk to Brad at 60X and he has several shooters shooting both strings and he can most likely give you a better opinion...


I totally agree. I've been using 8190 since it was in the testing phase and find it to be as stable as any material I've used. I have a friend that shoots thousands of arrows and the 8190 setup I put on his bow months ago hasn't moved at all. I just measured his draw length, brace height and ATA and they are the same as when I set the bow up. Not that there is anything wrong with 452X or Trophy, they are also very stable. What I have noticed is that the blended materials will break down sooner as the Vectran component (33%) is brittle compared to the Dyneema (66%). Of course this process takes thousands of shots before you start to notice anything.


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## fasteddie2488 (May 8, 2009)

I am going to triple up above. I have used 452 and/or Trophy for a while now and really like both. They are both stable with no creep or stretch. I have been testing 8190 for a while now and have no stretch no creep and absolutely no complaints with it what so ever. I picked up a little speed 4-7fps. I really like it.


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## Sgt. Fury (May 30, 2010)

I know of (6) dedicated archers that went to 8190 and are all now back to 452x. All reported stretching. I just don't know how much. I was dead set on getting 8190 for my Pulse. They all talked me out of it.

I really don't have a dog in this fight (although, Elite's warranty only supports 452x). I actually like the LOOKS of 8190 better. For the short term, looks like I'm staying with 452x.

...... hope this helps.


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## jtnm (Oct 10, 2008)

I have 2 bows I built strings with 8190. Now that the temps in my area are reaching 100 degrees, my bows are hanging in my little shop which gets hotter than hell, I guess it would be similar to sitting in a car. I noticed the strings are really shiny from the wax melting just sitting there. I noticed the other day my anchor point seemed a-little long while shooting. I checked draw length on draw board, it was a tad long. I pulled the string to measure it on the string jig @ 100#s. It grew a tad over 3/16. Both cables were a tad over 1/16. 
I assume the growth was due to the wax melting in the heat. This is a month old string set. The spools I have are loaded with a bunch of wax. I do burnish. 
I need to measure the other string set on the other bow to see if they have also lengthen. I also have another bow in there that has trophy on it. I am curious to see if it has grown although it is not shiny like the others. 
Dwagoner sold me some low wax 8190 spools I need to built a set to see if I get same results.


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## spot&dot (Nov 4, 2003)

Been using some 60X strings with 8190 on the string and 452x on the cables. It's been in the 90's here alot this year and so far so good. After talking with Brad this seems to be the best of both worlds. The added speed was nice and the stability of 452x has been proven. I'm shocked that no string builders have chimed in here. 8190 was the latest and greatest but after reading through this post I'm starting to wonder.


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## 164343 (Dec 24, 2009)

We have been using 8190 since we got our sample back in October.It has been awesome for us, very stable some added speed and our customers are now requesting it.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

jtnm said:


> I have 2 bows I built strings with 8190. Now that the temps in my area are reaching 100 degrees, my bows are hanging in my little shop which gets hotter than hell, I guess it would be similar to sitting in a car. I noticed the strings are really shiny from the wax melting just sitting there. I noticed the other day my anchor point seemed a-little long while shooting. I checked draw length on draw board, it was a tad long. I pulled the string to measure it on the string jig @ 100#s. It grew a tad over 3/16. Both cables were a tad over 1/16.
> I assume the growth was due to the wax melting in the heat. This is a month old string set. The spools I have are loaded with a bunch of wax. I do burnish.
> I need to measure the other string set on the other bow to see if they have also lengthen. I also have another bow in there that has trophy on it. I am curious to see if it has grown although it is not shiny like the others.
> Dwagoner sold me some low wax 8190 spools I need to built a set to see if I get same results.


I would suggest that the wax may be the problem, not the material. "Any" string material will "seem" to creep if the wax has not settled in a new string. Burnishing during the build process at the proper point will reduce this wax settling effect. I have tested 8190 in a heated auto and not found creep to be an issue. It's been hot here on the east coast for the past couple weeks and I've seen no movement during this time. BTW, I've been shooting either a 1/2 or full field round each day with a new set of 8190 strings installed on 6/23. My scores since 6/25 have been very consistent as well, with one exception.
264, 263, 262, 262, 269, 268, 267, 269, 264, 265, 266, 267, 258, 266. Strings that are moving do not product the consistent scores that I've shot. Also, the bow still measures what it did on 6/23.


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

I measured the 452x this morning and it creeped 3/8 of an inch and 8190 creeped 5/8 of an inch 8190 seems to be pretty good I guess no string material likes heat I think I'm going to keep using 8190 but I think I'm goin to use 452x for my cables though


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

I think one thing has been established for sure... you can't go wrong with either of these materials.


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

I am also shooting a set of pre-stretched 60X strings and cables, the string is 8190 and the cables 452X with no creep problems and it's been in the 90 almost every day and humid it Pittsburgh...


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## slamdam (Oct 10, 2006)

I have talked to a few reputable pros and they are all sticking with 452x and said they won't shoot the 8190 or trophy cause it does move unlike the 452x. I go from Montana on a monthly basis to Nebraska and other states and seem like I always have to resight in cause the cables seem to move and I was using trophy. I've been leaving the bow on a draw board at 1/2 drawn over night and take it off during the day and they buss keeps moving. That's with 8190.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

To say that Trophy moves and 452X doesn't isn't sound logic. Trophy "is" 452X with the addition of 1 strand of Gore fiber. How could it possibly move more?


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## 60X (Nov 8, 2002)

Trophy moves and 452x doesn't. I've seen it over and over again. I don't know what the gore does but I'm not a fan of it. Don't care for the 8125g either compared to the original.


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## Barn Burner2 (May 25, 2011)

I just do not see the benefit of the gore...,and as far as the non blended stuff, 8190 and xs2, the no peep twist is sweet, but i had guy loose three pounds using one of the NON blended materials when they were at the last ASA event, i know it was hot, BUT!!!, IMOP 452x or xcel is the way to go for stability, ......., 
Mike


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

I never played much with trophy , I don't care for the size and the odd strand count you have to use at times...Maybe the inherent slickness of gore makes it creep more...I don't think it stretches more than 452X, but I think that it my take longer to settle in because of the gore...Just my theory

The 8190 don't move anymore on the jig than 452X for me...I really like it on strings, and 452X on the cables

452X I believe will be here for the long haul, the diameter is perfect, the color selection is awesome, and it is faster than what people give it credit for...I will never stop using it unless they stop making it



60X said:


> Trophy moves and 452x doesn't. I've seen it over and over again. I don't know what the gore does but I'm not a fan of it. Don't care for the 8125g either compared to the original.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

do 452X and 8190 offer the same exact colors, or are they a little diff?


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

As far as I know the 8190 is only offered in solid colors and it is the same colors that's offerd in 452x


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## Barn Burner2 (May 25, 2011)

flag said:


> As far as I know the 8190 is only offered in solid colors and it is the same colors that's offerd in 452x


True Dat
Mike


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## flag (Oct 4, 2009)

As far as I know the 8190 is only offered in solid colors and it is the same colors that's offerd in 452x


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

all same colors but 8190 not available in any 2 color combos


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

Non blended materilas, 8190 or XS2 will not come in speckled colors



3Dblackncamo said:


> do 452X and 8190 offer the same exact colors, or are they a little diff?


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## jrdrees (Jun 12, 2010)

A lot of good info here folks, thanks a bunch!


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

has anyone played with the 8190x ?


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

their is no such thing as 8190x their is 8190 and their is the new bcy X but they are 2 diff string materials


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## bonecollector66 (Mar 2, 2011)

Hmmmm , the winners choice package says 8190x so what material do I have ?


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

452x is pretty well, long time established as having no creep or stretch and 100% stable....consequenty, allot more builders will prefer this material. it's all a matter of strand count. 8190 can be stable when you add a couple or so strands, over recommended count....it doesn't hurt a thing. the compromise of course, is speed, but it's so little loss that it really doesn't matter.....one of those "it shows on paper" type of differences. I think either one would be fine. some builders are more use to one than the other and prefer to work with a material that they cam predict finished results with the best.....of course... it's because they've used it more.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

bonecollector66 said:


> Hmmmm , the winners choice package says 8190x so what material do I have ?


8190..... they add the X something to differentiate themselves.... you have a 8190 set.


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## Hoytalpha35 (Apr 5, 2011)

dwagoner said:


> 8190..... they add the X something to differentiate themselves.... you have a 8190 set.


Must have it written that way because of calling it 8190 extreme


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

BCY calls it "8190 Universal". Maybe getting it confused with BCY-X?


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## los11 (Dec 10, 2012)

Anybody have experience with Astro how does that compare to 8190 and 452? I am looking for speed but want completely stable assam.


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## brandonlw (Feb 23, 2011)

8190 is a bit easier to build with but both are excellent materials. I prefer the string to be built with 8190 and the cables with 452x


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