# Texas novice scores.....



## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

The score that won Paris isn't the actual score. There was a guy there that shot real well but the score keeper had so much scribble on the score cards and have the number of 12s messed up. They talked with mike and had enough of the group vouch for him that his score was indeed messed up, they gave him a 2nd place plaque but show it as a lower finish.


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## RamboBarbie (Jan 24, 2011)

Funny, how do scores get confused if there's two score cards to compare scores and two score keepers. Tim Crick won Paris and he placed first with a buckle. And is new, novice, to the whole archery competition deal. He shot Florida also this year and didn't shoot 36 up there, just sayin. Maybe just maybe he's been practicing just sayin...


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## Bowhunter163 (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm not saying anything bad about it . I was just saying what are the odds that the same score won all three . I guess the score to shoot for at Kentucky is 36 up


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't know, I wasn't there. Just had a buddy that's a official telling me about it. I was on the K and D range.


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## RamboBarbie (Jan 24, 2011)

CMA121885 said:


> I don't know, I wasn't there. Just had a buddy that's a official telling me about it. I was on the K and D range.


Well there was a 8 pr difference from 1st to 2nd, seems like if 2nd was supposed to be first with score cards kinda hard to screw up on four twelves. Idk hmm


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

36 up! Another instance of Bow Novice needing corrected or being done away with.


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

I think bow novice should have a age cap. Nothing against anyone shooting it but the scores in that class are rediculous. I started out in hunter....shot it 2 years and won 16 bucks.


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## Boxorocks (Mar 6, 2013)

SonnyThomas said:


> 36 up! Another instance of Bow Novice needing corrected or being done away with.


Instant win out seems appropriate. Its a 30 yard max.... 36 up is solid but doesn't make someone not a novice.




CMA121885 said:


> I think bow novice should have a age cap. Nothing against anyone shooting it but the scores in that class are rediculous. I started out in hunter....shot it 2 years and won 16 bucks.


An age cap? Why? That is why we have various eagle , youth, young adult and senior classes. You couldn't figure out hunter but you're worried about novice? I don't get it.


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## bowtexan (Oct 26, 2010)

As someone who started in novice, I would say that it should be a half and half. Keep the 30 yard max and let guys who want to start there learn to judge some yardage and learn how to play the game. And keep the win your way out rules, but put a limit on how long you can stay in there. Like two full ASA seasons after your first shoot. Most don't need to stay that long, but there are a lot of guys who do need the novice class.


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## Bowhunter163 (Sep 25, 2012)

I agree . This is my first year shooting tournament archery . I am looking forward to getting out of novice . I have shot one ASA pro am so far . Finished 37th at Benning after being 11 down about halfway through the first 20 targets I ended up finishing 1 down for the tournament . I am using novice to get used to the big tournament type feel . I consistently shoot between 6-12 up locally 20 targets. Hoping to shoot Kentucky and then possibly go to open C after Kentucky .


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

RamboBarbie said:


> Funny, how do scores get confused if there's two score cards to compare scores and two score keepers. Tim Crick won Paris and he placed first with a buckle. And is new, novice, to the whole archery competition deal. He shot Florida also this year and didn't shoot 36 up there, just sayin. Maybe just maybe he's been practicing just sayin...


I don't think the OP was trying to say anything bad about the score that Tim shot. I read it as he was comparing all of the winning scores for all year and they all shot the same score each tourn. No reason to get defensive today. Just enjoy that you guys did well this weekend. You already know I think he is better than that class, but I do understand why he shoots it. I look forward to shooting with him when he moves up.

Congrats to Tim for the win. The buckle is sweet. $268 won so far this year in pro am and some wins(money) in state shoots. I for one am happy for him. Welcome to Hunter.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

SonnyThomas said:


> 36 up! Another instance of Bow Novice needing corrected or being done away with.





CMA121885 said:


> I think bow novice should have a age cap. Nothing against anyone shooting it but the scores in that class are rediculous. I started out in hunter....shot it 2 years and won 16 bucks.





Boxorocks said:


> Instant win out seems appropriate. Its a 30 yard max.... 36 up is solid but doesn't make someone not a novice.


Oxymoron? He or she is either is or is not, not both. 



bowtexan said:


> As someone who started in novice, I would say that it should be a half and half. Keep the 30 yard max and let guys who want to start there learn to judge some yardage and learn how to play the game. And keep the win your way out rules, but put a limit on how long you can stay in there. Like two full ASA seasons after your first shoot. Most don't need to stay that long, but there are a lot of guys who do need the novice class.


Good idea. 50/50 at least. I don't know of a ASA Bow Novice in our area that is limited to 30 yards nor do I know of one club that has known to any person. So, all ASA Bow Novices around our area shoot 45 yards at least and all unknown.


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## RamboBarbie (Jan 24, 2011)

tagmaster10 said:


> I don't think the OP was trying to say anything bad about the score that Tim shot. I read it as he was comparing all of the winning scores for all year and they all shot the same score each tourn. No reason to get defensive today. Just enjoy that you guys did well this weekend. You already know I think he is better than that class, but I do understand why he shoots it. I look forward to shooting with him when he moves up.
> 
> Congrats to Tim for the win. The buckle is sweet. $268 won so far this year in pro am and some wins(money) in state shoots. I for one am happy for him. Welcome to Hunter.


 

It wasn't 268 I believe a little less, and a side note Tim hadn't shot that class bee long for the people who didn't know that already. Totally agree everyone deserves a chance at reaching their goals or achieving podium whether that's local or national. Sorry to be defensive just seems to be a trend of bashing going on lately and Tim worked every bone in his body to get there. First time he didn't shoot an 8 was this weekend even. Also some of the words we use locally have somewhat offended new people like Tim in the past. We find the haste and gossip kinda harsh and in no way helps grow the sport, instead actually almost ran us off all together. Grow the sport of archery. Pat someone on the back when they do well & bring someone new to the range for a change. Nevertheless it is what it is, he's not sure what class he's going to move up to but we will definitely be around.


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## RamboBarbie (Jan 24, 2011)

And he's never shot up that much before for those who don't know him. Way to go Tim. I for one am proud of your blood sweat and practice to get there. Proud of you!!!


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## cconte (Feb 12, 2013)

SonnyThomas said:


> Oxymoron? He or she is either is or is not, not both.
> 
> 
> 
> Good idea. 50/50 at least. I don't know of a ASA Bow Novice in our area that is limited to 30 yards nor do I know of one club that has known to any person. So, all ASA Bow Novices around our area shoot 45 yards at least and all unknown.


ASA Bow Novice in your area is not being run by the rules then, because it CLEARLY states that bow novice - release, fixed pins, no magnification - is 30 yards, 280fps.


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

Boxorocks said:


> Instant win out seems appropriate. Its a 30 yard max.... 36 up is solid but doesn't make someone not a novice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont mean to come across and a butt, however Im pretty sure I have things figured out, 2 podium finishes this year, one this weekend in K45. Maybe a age cap doesnt need to be in place but something does.


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

I think sonny hit the nail on the head, a day of judging would better suit novice in my opinion. Since the next step from novice would be hunter or open C where you have to judge a day. Im not against anyone blowing up novice class, But I have seen some people in that class that was shooting rediculous on the sims range which is a 40 yard range (short side). 

Iv heard some say start at the bottom and win your way out. That maybe ok for some. For others its not ok. 

Ill use myself for example, Iv been shooting a bow since I was 6 years old. Im 27 now, I started shooting 3d at the age of 25. Just because it was my first 3d shoot I wasnt a novice, and I didnt feel it was right to shoot there. Not that I think Im better than anyone else!

No one knows a persons skill level like the person behind the bow.


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## Boxorocks (Mar 6, 2013)

CMA121885 said:


> I dont mean to come across and a butt, however Im pretty sure I have things figured out, 2 podium finishes this year, one this weekend in K45. Maybe a age cap doesnt need to be in place but something does.


That's cool. I'm glad you've found success but I can't figure out why your struggles in Hunter are relevant to a discussion about Novice. 

There is already an instant win out at $300 (from memory). There is no shooter of the year. Sure, a sandbagger might enter but if they're really any good, they won't be there long. There are sandbaggers at every level.... but above Novice and Open C, they get to stay all year regardless of the damage they do. 

What's next? Background checks at registration?

I don't really care but I think novice is all known because it's intention is to have a welcoming mat to people who have not shot 3d before. No one comes to the game with the ability to judge distance in any real capacity. Then the classes they advance to are half-and-half to allow them to get their feet wet. People seem to think Hunter is a career class but it and Open B have low win-out threshholds to advance shooters beyond that.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

cconte said:


> ASA Bow Novice in your area is not being run by the rules then, because it CLEARLY states that bow novice - release, fixed pins, no magnification - is 30 yards, 280fps.


I don't mean to highjack the thread, but....

Illinois, 2nd leading state for ASA clubs with 20 plus. I take in about 7 or 8 clubs per year and not one of them goes by ASA rules. I don't know of any club that goes by strictly ASA rules, except LeRoy, maybe. I can't even think of one club that goes strictly by NFAA or IBO rules. But then most all clubs have either NFAA or IBO classes. Club rules Rule 

Clubs are a bit skittish of swapping out classes. I mean some clubs have been around long before the ASA and switching classes has been known to rattle long time shooters/contestants. Classes I shoot and all the same; Special Equipment, Unlimited, Free Style, and MBO. Same with stakes, only one club, maybe. The rest have 3 normally and 4 at a few clubs. One club has a concrete block and "shoot where you feel comfortable."
One clubs tried to go with ASA stakes and that didn't go over well. It got down to; "Just pick a stake." And that didn't help things either.


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

RamboBarbie said:


> It wasn't 268 I believe a little less, and a side note Tim hadn't shot that class bee long for the people who didn't know that already. Totally agree everyone deserves a chance at reaching their goals or achieving podium whether that's local or national. Sorry to be defensive just seems to be a trend of bashing going on lately and Tim worked every bone in his body to get there. First time he didn't shoot an 8 was this weekend even. Also some of the words we use locally have somewhat offended new people like Tim in the past. We find the haste and gossip kinda harsh and in no way helps grow the sport, instead actually almost ran us off all together. Grow the sport of archery. Pat someone on the back when they do well & bring someone new to the range for a change. Nevertheless it is what it is, he's not sure what class he's going to move up to but we will definitely be around.



I was adding in the $21 won at Fl. 

I think you have taken some of the things said the wrong way. When I talked to you and Tim earlier this year, it was meant as incouragment when I said he is better than novice. As I said, I understand that he had a goal to win a pro/am. I am proud of him for doing that now and I still think he is good enough to win in Hunter or an Open C or B.

That being said: I still and always do believe that once you get to the point of shooting up on a regular basis, it is time to vacate the novice class and let some true novice shooters have a chance at feeling good about this sport. 

You know who I am and you know I have always been there to help you and him if I could and I know alot of other people who have put time into you guys getting better. Take it for what it really is.

On another note. I saw that you shot very well also. Congrats for that! Don't let him take all the glory for the weekend.


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## victor001 (Jan 31, 2011)

What is a Novice ? Someone that's new to shooting a bow , or someone new to 3D shoot's ? If it's niether one , your in the wrong division . JMO


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## cconte (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm pretty sure it's totally dependent on previous year earnings - not ability.


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## tagmaster10 (Jan 26, 2011)

I believe(just my own opinion) that Novice is more about skill than anything else. If you have the skill to move up, then that is what you should do. If it takes you 10 years to get to a point where you can shoot even or up on a regular basis, then that is where you should be if you want.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I think it goes back to a discussion that was held a few months ago about ASA classes needing a bit of looking into. I am in agreement that there needs to be a bit of restructuring for whichever avenue you choose to go into for a "career" of shooting.

Example...I am shooting Bow Novice currently. But stink at yardage guessing. Therefore Open C and Hunter classes are not appealing to me at all. I would rather go the Known 45 route with all known yardage. It wouldn't take but a good shoot or two to win out of K45... so where does a person go from there? K50 is a semi pro class and many might not want to go into that just yet....so what do you do from there? See there's a bit of a gap in the structure. It will probably never happen, but it would be great if we had more options on the Known yardage road instead of being forced to go into half/half classes or shoot all unknown. 

Yardage guessing is an ability all on its own. Therefore it's combining one skill set with the ability to shoot a bow. Known distance classes are just shooter against shooter...the only distinction is the skill level for shooting a bow and or memorizing spots on a target. Then again even the most skilled person can have a bad day or two and even the average skilled shooter can have a really good day and win. 

----------------------

That said...to the OP...yes, the Novice scores are always high. I would suppose it has taken a combined score of 20+ up to even net top 5 in the last several events. Florida is probably the lowest winning scores you will see throughout the year from what I've researched.


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## Bowhunter163 (Sep 25, 2012)

Crow Terminator said:


> I think it goes back to a discussion that was held a few months ago about ASA classes needing a bit of looking into. I am in agreement that there needs to be a bit of restructuring for whichever avenue you choose to go into for a "career" of shooting.
> 
> Example...I am shooting Bow Novice currently. But stink at yardage guessing. Therefore Open C and Hunter classes are not appealing to me at all. I would rather go the Known 45 route with all known yardage. It wouldn't take but a good shoot or two to win out of K45... so where does a person go from there? K50 is a semi pro class and many might not want to go into that just yet....so what do you do from there? See there's a bit of a gap in the structure. It will probably never happen, but it would be great if we had more options on the Known yardage road instead of being forced to go into half/half classes or shoot all unknown.
> 
> ...


 Yes I knew the scores were always high ... The point I was trying to make was that the exact same score won all three . Pretty crazy odds to not even vary by a point .


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## wrevans (Dec 13, 2012)

IMO....Bow Novice is one of those classes that it's hard to claim someone is sand bagging. If a person is better than the competition, then they'll win out in two shoots. I think anyone new to competitive archery should start there, simply because moving down in class is so hard. 

My son will be shooting Novice in London, and hopefully will be competitive. He just started shooting in December and has worked really hard to get better. Fortunately, we have several clubs around us that have Novice and/or Rangefinder classes. Hopefully he'll be able to get in that 35 up range.


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## RamboBarbie (Jan 24, 2011)

tagmaster10 said:


> I was adding in the $21 won at Fl.
> 
> I think you have taken some of the things said the wrong way. When I talked to you and Tim earlier this year, it was meant as incouragment when I said he is better than novice. As I said, I understand that he had a goal to win a pro/am. I am proud of him for doing that now and I still think he is good enough to win in Hunter or an Open C or B.
> 
> ...



I understand that but I think it's hilarious when it happens in my class as well. It's not just novice like I've stated before, point well taken when you shoot up all the time you should move up a level. Women's doesn't have a novice class and it happens all the time. Your right, I shot my first 200 this weekend after 2 years and ended up up 4. Trust me he didn't take all the glory & was very supportive in me reaching my goal. On a more personal level u words were not just that and we've appreciated your support in the past. There are many locals that like throwing stones and belittling people especially the new guys like us. We have a passion indescribable for archery that goes much further than 3d. I just think in the two few years we have participated in 3d that is a lot of talk of growing the sport and less actual doing it sometimes, at least locally. We aren't mad at you. But like I said I'd just like to see more time spent growing the sport, bringing new people and patting people on the back. Oklahoma shot really well all around at this proam!!! Way to go oklahoma!!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

wrevans said:


> IMO....*Bow Novice *is one of those classes that it's hard to claim someone is *sand bagging*. If a person is better than the competition, then they'll win out in two shoots.


Yeah, who would want to sand bag in "sand box" class?


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## bowfishinokie (Aug 13, 2011)

RamboBarbie said:


> It wasn't 268 I believe a little less, and a side note Tim hadn't shot that class bee long for the people who didn't know that already. Totally agree everyone deserves a chance at reaching their goals or achieving podium whether that's local or national. Sorry to be defensive just seems to be a trend of bashing going on lately and Tim worked every bone in his body to get there. First time he didn't shoot an 8 was this weekend even. Also some of the words we use locally have somewhat offended new people like Tim in the past. We find the haste and gossip kinda harsh and in no way helps grow the sport, instead actually almost ran us off all together. Grow the sport of archery. Pat someone on the back when they do well & bring someone new to the range for a change. Nevertheless it is what it is, he's not sure what class he's going to move up to but we will definitely be around.



anyone who wants follow the link http://www.trosperarchery.com/index.php?page=modules/pages/index&id=9


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