# Check out this arrow rest, unreal!!!!



## stinky1 (Feb 20, 2003)

Interesting


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## Big Al (Oct 17, 2002)

Gotta admit, it's defintely a new idea!


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## Zen Archery (Jul 27, 2004)

great idea if you like their broadheads and there is no wind bumping the arrow around


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## bigtim (May 26, 2004)

*i've gotta try one!*

that is too wild not to at least try out for indoor 20 yds


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## Catman (Feb 23, 2003)

you need to put in their inserts in your arrows. more specialized equipment you need to buy.


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## rangerunner (Feb 20, 2003)

wonder what the inserts weigh,, and what the FOC is going to be


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## fmosser (Dec 18, 2004)

Saw a high speed viedo of this rest two years ago at Vegas. very interesting.
I wondered when they would finnally get-r-done.
Then it was just a ring and not cutout with the tri-angle design. Only draw back I could see is the rest weighs quite a bit because of the fact that it is a magnet (powerful)


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## c'dn-eh? (Feb 23, 2005)

*new rest*



rangerunner said:


> wonder what the inserts weigh,, and what the FOC is going to be


ditto


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## SilentElk (Oct 6, 2004)

The magnets are most likely neodymium. Neodymium magnets are amazingly strong for how big they are. 3 magnets totaling 1 oz would be more than enough to suspend a much much smaller magnet in the arrow itself. Increase the weight of the magnets on the rest and the arrow weight drops even more. 

If it gives you any idea how stronger they are, my father inlaw has a bunch of these magnets from discarded electric toothbrushes. They measure about 3/8" diameter by 3/8" thick. Put 2 of them together and without sliding them sideways it is almost impossible to pull apart. Get one magnet near your wallet and ALL you cards will be completely erased!


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## SilentElk (Oct 6, 2004)

Looking further into the website indicates they do indeed use a small magnet on the inside of the arrow. The rest it's self apparently goes for $109.95 which is pretty steep considering how cheap the magnets are and the small amount of aluminum involved. Then again they have the patent so not as though anyone is going to be making hese besides them for the next 20 years unless they sell the rights.

good information on the website. Look through it.


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## HCAman (Nov 3, 2003)

What is this thing going to do to wrist watches????


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

interesting, a very neat idea. just curious how it really works.....anyone tried one yet?


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## Tyler88 (Mar 9, 2003)

Hmm, interesting idea. I would also like to hear about if anyone has had any hands on experience?? 

How did it work?


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## jws (Feb 22, 2005)

All I can say is WOW! 
I'd love to try one. Maybe when they come out with inserts for carbons I'll give it a try. No worries about cables or spring tension or vane contact, WOW! I posted the link on the general archery board but only got one response. Kinda surprises there wasn't more interest.


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## leintz (Apr 24, 2003)

*rest*

i hope that works... a little time....I know that if the strong magnet have impact their magnetic field weakenings....rest is fine...but the inserts ?????


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

Ordered mine today, can't wait to try this futuristic rest... :thumbs_up


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## Archery Source (Aug 4, 2005)

andy_smaga said:


> Ordered mine today, can't wait to try this futuristic rest... :thumbs_up


Hope it works good for you. Got a sample a few months ago and though I have not spent a load of time trying to tune it, it was not what I expected. Great concept and innovation, but I think it needs a little more work.


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## FSL (May 22, 2002)

The guy who was developing it is Glen Davis of Tucson. He shot a prototype in Vegas this past year with the ring only. Glen shoots pretty well but not as well as it looked this rest could shoot.........


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

*Reply to subject*



Andy_smaga said:


> Ordered mine today, can't wait to try this futuristic rest... :thumbs_up



-------------
Hello Andy
Andy in-case I would miss your post after you receive yours and try it out.Give me a Pm on your findings.

One of my concerns is on a lot of arrows shot indoors, they are large arrows.Where as we leave them very long to take the stiffness out of them for flight.
Now with this .I wonder what length one can maintain past the air rest.

Later
Friend Unk :smile:


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## BullseyeBooger (Dec 29, 2004)

Didn't see the specs on the webpage. If they did what SilentElk said it may be a good product. I tried to pull a pea-sized neodymium off of a fridge and it was very difficult. Additionally, I believe traditional magnets lose their magnetics if subjected to heat and impact. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If your magnetic field were to deteriorate over time it would be bad. :sad:

For fun, check out www.kjmagnetics.com/specs.asp


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I am thinking that the nock needs to be perfect so that you don't get any pinch or anything that might cause the tip of the arrow to not line up the same each shot. Maybe something like a Mag-nock to go with the rest.

I also would like to know how this rest works for the brave who are buying it and trying it out.

If it works with no hassels, I can see it taking over in a short time. It would be great to have no moving parts and consistent tip positioning.


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2004)

Yep, heat is a bad thing...but it has to be extreme...like a butane lighter or torch.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Looks really neat, but if the magnets are strong enough to hold the arrow as steady as a regular rest, how much force does it take to break their lateral hold on the arrow? No touch obviously doesn't mean no grip. :thumbs_do

I think this is a literal cae of "there's more to this than meets the eye."


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

With so little material put into it, and a price of over $100, maybe these guys are trying to make a killing before we all figure out how _good_ it really is. :secret:


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Take an old whisker biscuit cut all the whiskers out and glue in some of these strong little magnets put one of these magnets in an arrow and have at it. If I had the parts I would be glueing everything together even as I type.


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Take an old whisker biscuit... anf USE IT! :thumb:


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## CA_Rcher12 (Oct 28, 2004)

Lookit that price tag! :shade:


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

...and think about WHY it has that price tag. There's not more than $20 worth of material there, and the R&D wasn't that tough because this setup is old hat on submarines. This is how they "rig for silent running".


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

2005Ultramag said:


> ...and think about WHY it has that price tag. There's not more than $20 worth of material there, and the R&D wasn't that tough because this setup is old hat on submarines. This is how they "rig for silent running".


Do you seriously think that everything you buy for $100, have more than $20 worth of material  
I, for one, ordered a Air-rest to find out if there is an advantage to use it for indoor spots.
Unless you try, you don't know the value of a product. :beer:


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## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

Hey,

I normally post on Mathews forum, and I did a full review over there. I decided to try it out and I love it. It's a lot more forgiving than my Muzzy ZE drop away was, and I can stack 'em out to 50 yards, as far as I've tried so far. Every single arrow flys perfect though. With the drop-away, I'd always have one or two that wanted to fishtail.

If anything it makes your arrow faster, since there is nothing linked to your bow anywhere like cable clamps, etc. It only pushes up on the arrow. It also paper tunes about 10 times easier than any drop away I've ever tuned.

The inserts weight in at just about 50 grains, so I switched to a 75 grain head from 100 grains. The only other down side to the rest right now is that the arrow vibrates for just a second when it pops up into the rest, but I have a feeling they're going to have that fixed within a year, and it doesn't bother me anyway. Also, you have to have draw stops or a hard back wall. It works great on my SwitchBack, probably would work even better with Bowtechs or bows with a draw stop. You also will have to get your arrows the right length. They have directions on their website. 

Hey, it's not that complicated, it's just new. You draw back and nothing touches your arrow and there's nothing clamped to your bow. It tunes easy and is very forgiving. Just as accurate as any other rest, but quieter and nothing to go wrong along with all the other benefits.

Honestly though, you guys are tripping me out talking about the price :tongue: When something comes along that offers this many benefits, it's worth it. I don't remember anyone complaining about the $40 STS, which is super cheap to make. BTW, the rest isn't heavy, or light. It's about the weight my Muzzy ZE was. Hey, if you have any questions just ask, or search for air-rest. I posted a link to the Mathews board a while back. A few other guys over there have tried it and liked it too. I expect it will be even better in the future, but for now I already choose it over any drop-away (just sold my muzzy ZE).


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Call me a skeptic then, but you can't defy gravity without creating drag.


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## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

Actually, the rest would pushes the arrow perfectly forward as it's released, just the opposite. I'm an electrical engineer so I have a pretty good understanding of how it works.


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## ChariotDriver (Dec 7, 2004)

I have been thinking of this same concept for the last year. Glad to see that they have been working on it for more thant 2 years, or I would have been mad at myself for not moving forward with the idea.
Makes me want to move forward on some of my other ideas now.
I know that electronics are not allowed on P&Y, wonder if this would qualify?


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## ChariotDriver (Dec 7, 2004)

I use the Mag-Nock system and was wondering if this Rest pulls forward on the arrow, or does it push back when fully drawn?
As the Mag-Nock has a slight "attraction" to the arrow I'm wondering if this would pull the arrow off the Nock.


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

I think the magnock will not be able to keep the arrow on the string because during the draw cycle you will have a moment where the arrow will get forward attraction. But I didn't try.


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## Predator (Jan 18, 2003)

They say it doesn't work well with carbon arrows as they are too skinny and aren't very permeable for magnetism. If they can't make it work for carbon this rest will never stick - almost everyone shoots carbon these days.

Very cool idea though. I am slightly tempted to try one with my spot bow (shooting 2512's).


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## springer01 (Sep 28, 2004)

I have been looking at this for a few awhile and right now the only thing keeping me from buying it is that using it on a carbon arrow you have to use their broadhead.


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## v8esprit (Oct 5, 2005)

Ok, so they have the carbon inserts.

What do I say, I want 6 inserts for A/C/C 318 arrow? I add 50 grains for the insert and then add a 50 gr point. And I'm a happy guy?

Can they do this?

Once they do, I'll buy one.

BTW, with a A/C/C I have aluminum and carbon. I know that carbon isn't magnetic but aluminum is. Will the magnet in the insert which will be in contact with the aluminum inside the arrow, have an odd effect?

-Lox


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## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

The carbon inserts work great. I just got a 6 point with it this morning. Ya'll must have read the website before they came out with the carbon inserts, or maybe your webpage isn't updating? Sometimes things get cached and it will display the old page. You have to clear history and old webpages.

The insert is about 50 grains, so it's maybe 30 grains heavier than your old insert. So, if you want 100 grains with your old insert, you can use a 75 grain head and be really close to the same weight.

Muzzy and grim reaper both are making 75 grain heads. I was using a grim reaper 85 grain head on the 6 pointer this morning. I'm getting some 75 grainers next year..the 85 grain (which is really over 90 grains) is a bit heavy with the insert. The 75 grain muzzy's don't nosedive at all, and I get an FOC of less than 11 percent with Blazers and a 75 grain head.

Yes, you'd just tell them what arrow you want the inserts for, and make sure he has it.


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## michihunter (Mar 2, 2003)

v8esprit said:


> I know that carbon isn't magnetic but aluminum is. Will the magnet in the insert which will be in contact with the aluminum inside the arrow, have an odd effect?
> 
> -Lox



Aluminum isn't magnetic!! The force of the magnets doesn't attract the insert to themselves, it repels the inserts away from each other evenly in effect forcing it to float. Same concept as the trains that use magnetic propulsion.


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## MEMORIES (Oct 19, 2005)

*Air-Rest and Turbo Nocks ???*

I am a big fan of Turbo Nocks and currently use them with a Whisker Biscuit. Will the Turbo Nock "Hunter" model pass through the magnet housing of the Air-Rest without making contact? Turbo Nocks are rather small in diameter compared to other flexible vane designs but they utilize a four (4) vane design. It seems like the Air-Rest is designed to accomodate a three (3) fletch configuration.


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## karday (Aug 20, 2002)

*Magnetic Aluminum?*

Wow! When did that happen? Up until now you had to have ferrous metals to take advantage of magnetism. I have never seen magnetic Aluminum or Copper or any non-ferrous metal.


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## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

It looks like the current model is for 3 vanes only. I would check back in the future though. I've heard something about a model that would work for 4 vanes, or FOB's or anything else.


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## JHeuvel (Nov 6, 2003)

I have seen a guy shooting a prototype simular to that in Vegas the last 2 years. I am not sure is this is the same guy, the last model I saw was quite different than that. He said it worked well for him but it was his baby. I think the insert requirements to make the magnets work will be the down fall of the rest. You may have to load the arrow nock first from the front to avoid getting the arrow stuck againts the rest.


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## ChariotDriver (Dec 7, 2004)

JHeuvel said:


> I have seen a guy shooting a prototype simular to that in Vegas the last 2 years. I am not sure is this is the same guy, the last model I saw was quite different than that. He said it worked well for him but it was his baby. I think the insert requirements to make the magnets work will be the down fall of the rest. You may have to load the arrow nock first from the front to avoid getting the arrow stuck againts the rest.


 I was thinking about that same problem the other day, why can't they cut a slit into it and solve the problem like they did on the Whisker Biscuits?

Then it could be loaded after the arrow was nocked.

When I was working on this idea,(they beat me to it) I envisioned 3 magnets in the actual ring, and it would force the arrow to center. So, to me it looks like the opposing magnets would be in the three lobes that are the closest to the arrow.
Just cut it open between 2 of those lobes and make sure that it is strong enough to support itself on the other side and it should work.
Unless there is somehting that I missed here.
Phil


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

ChariotDriver said:


> I was thinking about that same problem the other day, why can't they cut a slit into it and solve the problem like they did on the Whisker Biscuits?
> 
> Then it could be loaded after the arrow was nocked.
> 
> ...


I think what you missed is the polar attraction as the metal approaches the magnets from the opposite side. Coming in through a slit you don't have all three magnets working on the insert equally until it's between all three manets, but then what do I know? I'm not an engineer.


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

JHeuvel said:


> I have seen a guy shooting a prototype simular to that in Vegas the last 2 years. I am not sure is this is the same guy, the last model I saw was quite different than that. He said it worked well for him but it was his baby. I think the insert requirements to make the magnets work will be the down fall of the rest. You may have to load the arrow nock first from the front to avoid getting the arrow stuck againts the rest.



I think the magnets in the rest REPEL the magnet in the insert. Nothing should stick to anythiing here. My question would be can you put some moleskin over the magnets to make it quiet for hunting and still get the needed performance out of the magnets?


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## rogbo (Jan 2, 2004)

Never mind. Found my own answer. Watched the video on the site and Voila!!! Moleskin. Looks like it works just peachy. Hmm, now to sneak a couple of extra bucks out the ol' ball and chains purse...


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## ChariotDriver (Dec 7, 2004)

2005Ultramag said:


> I think what you missed is the polar attraction as the metal approaches the magnets from the opposite side. Coming in through a slit you don't have all three magnets working on the insert equally until it's between all three manets, but then what do I know? I'm not an engineer.


 Suppose you nock the arrow then slip it into the cut out, while the string is not drawn back. 
Then the Broadhead would be 1.5 ft in front of the rest. No Magnets interacting with the others at all from this distance.

Like you do with a Whisker Biscuit.

Then when you pull the arrow back, it, the magnets in the rest, come into "Contact" where it repels the other magnet in the insert.
Seems to work in my mind.
Phil


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## 2005Ultramag (Apr 3, 2005)

Good point! :doh:


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## bownut7393 (Oct 13, 2004)

*it's a good idea*

I built a prototype of a similar rest three years ago. My prototype worked very well when loaded from the front. The concept is sound, and with a little work the rest should be perfect for many types of hunting and target work. I don't particularly like the idea of having to shoot through such a tight area with the fletching. Once again, time will tell. I think I may order one just to try it out!


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

ChariotDriver said:


> I was thinking about that same problem the other day, why can't they cut a slit into it and solve the problem like they did on the Whisker Biscuits?
> Then it could be loaded after the arrow was nocked.
> Phil


Phil
I'm sure this will work and it will take care of the inconvenience of loading an arrow from the back.


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## stodr (Sep 4, 2002)

I have known glen for many years. He has been working on this for at least 4 years. How much is your time worth. Materials is not the only thing involved and how much do you thing the patent search and the patent cost? Not sure it this is his or not but whoever it is would have the same costs. We have talked about it a couple of times and I advised him in the strongest terms not to make it to public until he got the patent. It looks like he does, you will start to see more of them out there.

Glenn is a excellent indoor shot. He doesn't practice much anymore that is why he hasn't done well the last couple of years in Vegas.


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## SilentElk (Oct 6, 2004)

ChariotDriver said:


> I was thinking about that same problem the other day, why can't they cut a slit into it and solve the problem like they did on the Whisker Biscuits?
> 
> Then it could be loaded after the arrow was nocked.
> 
> ...


I am sure that everyone who has ever shot a whisker biscuit had the same thought. However, I am willing to bet that particular design was patented by wisker bisquit already. So to use it would be illegal unless an agreement was made. Good news though! That patent will be free to use 20 years after it was accepted


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## ChariotDriver (Dec 7, 2004)

The one thing that I do not see is how you adjust it for distance.

I also have a great invention in mind that I did not find in the Patent Trade Office Website.

Does anyone know about the laws regarding Patents if they will hold water if an idea that you have is documented in a public way, like this forum?


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## karday (Aug 20, 2002)

*Pros and cons of patents*

In my career as an engineer I have had to work the issue of patent infringement on a few occasions. The downside of a patent is that you release the innovation to the world. It then becomes fair game for others to spring board off of and introduce some variation that does does obviate your design and is not an attempt to copy. Good news is that the patent office polices infringements for you. Copyrights are different in that you have to police your own but they never expire. The most restrictive methodology used by many Defense companies is the Proprietary Data approach. Wherein a drawing has a blocked off area without any data in it. Idea being that he government can obviate any patent and the only thing left is for the lawyers to decide how much the Gov. has to pay the inventor. Nevertheless once a design goes to production and is sold the cat is out of the bag so to speak. I believe Darton actually holds the original patent on the cam.5 concept and others are likely paying license fees to Darton to produce their variation. In the ens it boils down to the dollars, doesn't it? If you can't produce all the bows why not make some profit licensing your idea? This is partly what Apple did wrong. They waited a tad too long to license others to build to their architecture and by the time they licensed a few the PC industry took off. Most inventors are hoping their idea takes off and they are bought out by a larger concern. Sort of what happened to Nick Snook and his Turbo-Nock. The fasicinating thing to watch is the physical vs cultural change. A new change to a conventional design is easily accepted by the market. However, if it is a cultural change then it faces a lot more difficult road to acceptance. In our sport we see this with cross bows and ideas like the Accurest. Cross bows have been around for a long time but were easily accepted in their day as a weapon improvement over long bows. Some even were capable of multiple fire of sorts. The archery purists had and still have issues witht he crossbow because it is a cultural change that in part shortcuts the traditional skills requiring years to perfect.


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## TailChaser (Aug 13, 2005)

Don't post it on this forum unless you are going to patent it within a year. You have one year from the date of public disclosure to patent it. And if you do disclose it, you need to already have it documented that it's your idea. Have it written out and notarized as being yours. Or, just don't post it :teeth: 

I've killed 3 deer, two bucks, with my air-rest so far in the last two weeks. Friggin' awesome! I love the forgiveness on the quick shots when you can't always get perfect hand placement. Every single deer was a perfect shot. Longest shot was over 30 yards. Lovin' it. I won't use any other rest...until they improve this one. The 75 grain reapers work awesome too.


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## v8esprit (Oct 5, 2005)

I'll be getting an air-rest by Xmas. Hopefully sooner.

I don't mind loading from the front. I have an Ultra-Elite so I have to load from one direction or the other, never from the side.

Anyway, I can't wait to try it.

-Lox


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## Archersteve (Oct 14, 2004)

*He who laughs last laughs best*

I remember when I first defended this rest not too long ago. Many thought me a fool.

Looks like the rest is "all that" after all. :thumbs_up


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## v8esprit (Oct 5, 2005)

The link to view the video is:

http://www.air-rest.com/drawing and shooting 2.MPG

-Lox


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## Punch_Master (Jul 24, 2002)

What happens during the draw cycle? I could see it holding the arrow at full draw but what about when it's less than that? The magnets won't be close enough?


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## andy_smaga (Sep 27, 2003)

Punch_Master said:


> What happens during the draw cycle? I could see it holding the arrow at full draw but what about when it's less than that? The magnets won't be close enough?


The arrow will slide on the bottom of the rest and when you get at full draw it will levitate...


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## omnivore (Feb 7, 2004)

*airrest*



Tyler88 said:


> Hmm, interesting idea. I would also like to hear about if anyone has had any hands on experience??
> 
> How did it work?


Works Great here is the link http://air-rest.com


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