# ?? Black Widow Really Worth $$??



## iseedeadducks (May 26, 2007)

just wondering if black widow was really worth the money? i ask about bob lee in a different post and i can see $500 - $650 , but 1100 to 1500 for a custom recurve or longbow, just wondering what everyones thought was on them and or best company for the money or if balck widow is truely the creme of the crop?? thanks


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## Bonefish (Jan 6, 2005)

I don't own a black widow but have shoot then at archrty show. I tried to buy a used one from the Black Widow rep at the show but he wanted the same prive for a two year old used bow as he did for a new one. I left the dhow with a new Tomahawk long bow and I have thanked Black widow ever since. The Tomahawk long bow if great and I have tried a number of custom longbows at the trad indoor 3D shoot I go to each week. Another thing after two years of heavy uses the tomahaw developed some small white lines in the limbs nothing you couls feel with your finger nail, But I called 3 Rivers Archery and asked them about it. the oowner took my call and asked me to send the bow to him so he could look at it. Three days later he called me and said ther wasn't anything wrong with the bow or how it shoots that the white lines was nothing to worry about BUT he didn't want any of his bow out there looking like that and was gonig to send me a new bow. 10 days later the new bow was in my hands. By the way I didn't buy the bow from 3 Rivers but from another archery company that sells Tomahawk. Tell me how many people would replace a bow the he didn't sell to you?...That first bow I used to dropped two wild pigs and 3 deer while I had it. One more thing you don't need a 60 pound longbow to dropped a deer or pig the one I used was only 47 pounds. and all were good clean kills. I would highly reamend a tomahawk long bow if you decided to go long bow. I also have a 52 pound Bob Lee recurve I have shoot a lot of paper with and it shoots great too just haven't taking hunting yet, when it time to hunt I just seem to glad the longbow, It's so much fun to shoot.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I personally don't see much sense in spending so much in a bow unless you WANT to spend alot of money. You can take a stick, put a string between the two ends and if you use spined arrows (if it doesn't break) it will shoot an arrow. You can make abow, or buy a produciton bow, and they will shoot well. It isn't the bow, it is the archer. And the Tomahawk bows, I have heard, are just as good as the Widow by two people who own both.


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## vonottoexperien (Nov 4, 2005)

I shot my buddies for awhile, I don't think it's worth the money.


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## bowquiver (Jul 10, 2006)

Must be to some. They sell alot of them.


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## iseedeadducks (May 26, 2007)

*not pot stirring*

i was just wondering if the bows they sell or for those that think more money and name means better, i am not pot stirring and not bashing at all, i just wondering if it was like buying a browning rifle or a rem. 700bdl. one is name and other is proven more accurate, but i know on compounds i always bought top line hoyt and bowtech, just seemed to shoot better to me than a cheaper lower line compound, and didnt know if traditional was same way or more like buying a name??? thanks again and i am not bashing and or pot stirring and suggesting that a bow someone is shooting is no good, thanks 






QUOTE=bowquiver;4822833]Must be to some. They sell alot of them.[/QUOTE]


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## bowquiver (Jul 10, 2006)

I do own one . Had it built in 91 for about half what they go for now. That was high back then. I think it was worth it. It doesn't really matter thou because when you really get into Trad archery you'll be buying every bow you can to find that perfect magic bow.


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## Okie1bow (Jul 26, 2006)

*Black Widows*

Well,I've got to chime in on this one. I've shot Widows for target, FITA,NFAA,
3D and hunting all my life. I've gone to a PSE X-Factor for FITA now because
BW has concentrated on their hunting line almost exclusively. I've tried many, many others and have never found a finer bow. I have a 1200T/D, a HB, 
a X-200, A 1350 and a 101. I feel they represent the finest American craftsmanship in this industry. The "only" hunting bow I've ever seen and shot that rivals them is a Bob Lee. Are any of the bows we buy worth the money?


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## huntnutsbro (May 19, 2007)

*widows*

what other company sends you a bow just like the one you want built, (after you pay for your bow that is) so you can shoot it to see if it is right for you? 

i know guys that work there,some of the nicest people around, and i have shot a few. if i had the money and wanted the best traditional out there, you bet i would drop the money for one. and i may some day.

i just really like my compounds though.:wink:


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## iseedeadducks (May 26, 2007)

*thanks*

thanks for the info and comments and i live about 1hour and 15 minutes from bob lee place in texas so i am going to go shoot some of his in a week or so thanks for all info keep comments coming and all opinions welcome,


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## JimPic (Apr 8, 2003)

Are they worth the money? If you never shoot one,you'll never know.They make great bows,have outstanding customer service and they've been one of the top selling bows for the last 50yrs.For me,they're the best shooting bows I ever owned(I have 3) and they're worth it.For others,they're not


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

I have two, a recurve and a long bow both are early 1990's both were handmade and finished by Bill Bonner and to me yes they were worth the money, and if you do a search you will find used ones still bring about 65%-70% of original price, go on ebay they always have some.
Now todays bows are cnc made risers and hand laid limbs and according to the guys on the widow wall they are still the best out there I personally can not vouch for that because I don't own a new one, but if they are anything like my old ones they are worth the money if you want custom made. Mine still shoot and look like they did in 1991 and 92.


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## tradbowgirl (Oct 9, 2006)

Black Widow allows you to "test drive" their bows. Of course you have to pay the full price of the bow up front and you get a refund when you return it but if you'd like to check them out that's one way to do it.


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## 31856 (Dec 9, 2006)

It would be impossible to explain in words the reasons that Widows are worth what they are worth. You just have to shoot one for a while ( not just a few shots with a borrowed bow) to understand what they are all about. I own 4 of them and truely don't believe I will ever own another brand of bow. They are just too good to describe, and their customer service is unbelieveable!!! Frank


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## zillla (Feb 24, 2007)

For what Widow wants for a bow a guy can buy a great custom bow.. I have shot several Widows and personally do not care for them myself.. Around here they pretty popular though. IMO they are overpriced.


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## romeo (Jan 21, 2007)

I've shot the black widows and they are very smooth shooting bows, but for the money i like the bob lee bows. I have had 3 bob lee's, one was a 45lb recurve, one 57lb longbow and now a take-down long bow. I spent a lot of time shooting many different trad. bows and it seems I always pick the bob lee back up and walk out the door with a smile on my face.


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

There are lots of super bows to choose from these days and ALL seem over priced to me, LOL. Black Widow recurves shoot great for me and are more than worth the money but it's a personal choice. The "custom" thing is misunderstood and way over rated, in my humble opinion.


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## Soumi (Nov 19, 2006)

I've had some really great customs, Palmer, Acadian woods, Bob Lee, Northern Mist and few others. I traded one of them for a Black Widow PSAX last winter and I love it. My Palmer is faster, but much touchier to perfect form. My Acadian Woods is quieter and simply a beautiful bow which I will always consider one of the finest. Bob Lee makes a great bow for the money and it's a good shooter. BUT none of them imho shoots as stable and consistent as the BW. I am grouping arrows with that bow like never before. I don't know if I'd pay $1500 for one, and I don't think you have to spend that much to get a nice BW until you get into the exotics. And if you shop around the classifieds here and tradgang, they turn up used often enough.


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## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

*Great bows.*

The Black Widow is a fine bow. Great shooting bows, and they are super folks too. 

I also like the SKY bows Mathews produces. 

The Martin Dream Catcher is a good bow for the money too.

My advice is to shoot them before you buy one. I know BW used to have a "test drive" program where they'd send you one to try. They may still do that. Some retailers also stock traditional bows and will let you try them.

It's all personal opinion... and what shoots well for you.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Just like everything else in life, if you like them and are comfortable with the price, then yes, they're worth the money.


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## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

Did Ken Beck sell BW? He is a fine man.


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

Mr. Beck still owns and opperates the company.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

No, Ken Beck sold the company to four employees a year or two ago. He is still there in some capacity, but he no longer owns or runs the company.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

IMO- a bow is a bow. You can string up a stick and shot it. Carve the stick a little and it will shoot a little better. Carve it some more, back it with some sinew, and maybe flip the tips, and you have a fine shooting bow that didn't cost a thing. But that is alot of work for a good shooting bow, just like a Widow is alot of money for a good shooting bow. But I would take the stick I carved and others would take the Widow- and others might not want either one. It is different from person to person, circumstance to circumstance.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Sorry...it was actually sold to three employees, not four.

http://ns1.bowsite.org/acb/webpage.cfm?WebPage_ID=11&DID=9


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

I stand corrected.


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## bdeal (Oct 28, 2005)

IMO they are good bows, but not great bows. They do however have outstanding customer service, which is defintely a consideration. IMO they are defintely not worth the money. You can get a prettier, much faster bow with better wood options for a lot less money that is made by a bowyer (a true artist) instead of a CNC machine. If you want to spend that much on a bow, I would highly recommend looking at Habu as they are prettier (IMO) and faster than the widows.

Ny 2 cents.

BD


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## Soumi (Nov 19, 2006)

Habu's are great bows but are not any cheaper than BW's these days. They also have a long wait time as do many of the popular boyers which can be a consideration if you don't want to wait 1 - 2 years for a bow. You can have a Black Widow within a couple months.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

No, with the number of great custom bows out there BW are overpriced and slow.


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## non-typical (Jul 5, 2002)

I had shot and owned a few "good" bows b4 I shot a friends widow and now I own 3.Are they worth it,YES, imho.They feel good in "my" hand,they hit where "I" aim,and its a joy for "me" to shoot,and to "me" look good.So for that "I" will pay top dollar because "I" dont get that with cheaper and more expensive bows.Their customer service is excellent also!! Which should also be thrown into the $ equation.As far as speed,WOW, I thought that was a wheelie thing,I guess not.Hear it alot lately w/trad. people now.I dont care what you own,if you like it and it shoots good,its worth every $$ you pd for it.

PETE


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## BuckmagnetJR (Oct 3, 2006)

*Black widow*

I have shot many of the new recurves that are on the market, in the past two years, this spring i ordered me a widow! they are smooth, fast and dead in the hand!!! besides the are a beautiful piece of work! i own two recurves, and i will have a hard time picking up the other one! so, in my mind they are worth the $$$. as someone stated earlier, the guys down there at BW are truely some of the Best. I have spoken with Ken and Roger on seperate occasions and never have felt that they were trying to sell there stuff. Dale at 3 rivers archery is also in that boat. I have made many trips to the warehouse(it's just down the road), and everyone there are friendly and willing to answer any question!!! Just my two cents!


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## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

I did an archery exhibition in the St. Louis area a few years ago. Ken Beck let me use one of his new bows (at that time I think it was a new model-- it was a recurve/longbow combinitation bow..) Anyway, what a great shooting bow. I think the BW is a fine bow. They shoot well and seem to be pretty forgiving.

BUT it's what each person likes... try any of them before you buy.

Frank


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## Joel C (Nov 23, 2005)

You can get a Martin bow custom built to your specs for up to half the price. Each Martin bow is hand made and shaped and no part of the process is done using computer ran CNC machines. The same Bowyers have been making our bows for over 25 years at our traditional plant in Yakima, Washington. Give me a call sometime at 800-541-8902 and I can tell you all about the options of our traditional line.


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## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

Joel
In post #32 I mentioned the Martin Dream Catcher--- a great bow! Martins are great traditional bows. 

I am also a fan of the youth bow they make for youngsters-- is it the x100 or x200?!? A great starter bow.

Frank


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

Martin bows are both great bows and a great value. Black Widow has listed them in their catalog for years. I will take issue with the CNC thing, however. I'll bet there's not a "custom" garage bowyer, or Martin Archerery for that matter, that doesn't wish he had a CNC machine as his disposal. Having made a few bows myself, it's difficult and repetitous trying to get things the same on every bow. The application of a computer aided mill solves a lot of the busy work of building bows. It's sort of like comparing a monk making a laborious copy of a document by hand versus printing it on a machine. Sorry for the digression.


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## JimPic (Apr 8, 2003)

Give the Widow guys a call. You'll be suprised how custom they really are. You want a bocote bow? They'll make it. Osage?-that too. Tulipwood,Kingwood and many others-yep,they'll make it for ya. Like a certain grip? They'll put that on your bow also. Their prices are no higher than many of the other top bowyers


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## Joel C (Nov 23, 2005)

AKRuss said:


> it's difficult and repetitous trying to get things the same on every bow. The application of a computer aided mill solves a lot of the busy work of building bows.


That is definitely true...but that is why we have guys that have been doing it every work day for the last few decades.


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## DOGMEN (Aug 24, 2005)

*Black Widow*

My vote is for the BW. I own 2 of them. I have a SAII that I bought in 1995
Yes it was alot of $$ then also. I cannot think of shooting any other bow and having so much fun with it especially knowing that I could sell it and only loss about $200.00 from what I paid for it. Think about what we are paying for high end compounds and what they are worth down the road a few years later. Not only are Black Widows great bows , in time they are an investment.


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## Aspirin Buster (Mar 25, 2004)

Joel
Is the Dream Catcher one of your better models? It's one I often advise folks to buy. My parents were Martin retailers way back around 1978-79, and they still sell them.

I like BW bows, Martin bows, Sky bows and I shot Hoyt recurves for 17 years or so. I think it is all about what you want to spend, what you need and if the bow fits those needs. 

The late Stacy Groscup loved a short bow with the arrow close to his knuckle. I prefer the longest recurve/longbow or compound I can get... and I use a rest. So it's all personal preference.

This is a great sport full of great folks! By the way, I enjoyed visiting with Mr. Martin after my exhibition at the Pope & Young banquet in PA this year.


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## Soumi (Nov 19, 2006)

This is one thing I love about traditional guys. There's no brand slamming like in the general forums. Those guys seem to be constantly bickering over brands, worse than chevy vs. ford.


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## cpnkidd (Jul 28, 2007)

ttt


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## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

Aspirin Buster said:


> Joel
> Is the Dream Catcher one of your better models? It's one I often advise folks to buy. My parents were Martin retailers way back around 1978-79, and they still sell them.
> 
> I like BW bows, Martin bows, Sky bows and I shot Hoyt recurves for 17 years or so. I think it is all about what you want to spend, what you need and if the bow fits those needs.


I've never shot a Dreamcatcher; the 60" AMO length is a little too small for my gorilla arms, but I _will_ put my vote in for the Martin Hunter recurve. I just got one made to my desired specs at my draw length (60#@30") a few months ago, and unless I am mistaken, you can probably have a new one made for not 1/2 the cost of a Black Widow but more like 1/3. I like both the newer Martin Hunters and also the pre-Martin Damon Howatt Hunters, but my new Hunter seems the smoothest on the draw out of all I've owned. Kinda quick, too:wink:


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Alan,

Maybe they're tweaked the Hunter model since I bought a new one in 2000, but mine stacked like a pile of bricks once you got past 28" of draw. I struggled with it a few months and eventually sold it on eBay for about half what I paid. Ironically enough, I replaced it with a new Black Widow SAIII.


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## alanraw (Feb 18, 2005)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Alan,
> 
> Maybe they're tweaked the Hunter model since I bought a new one in 2000, but mine stacked like a pile of bricks once you got past 28" of draw. I struggled with it a few months and eventually sold it on eBay for about half what I paid. Ironically enough, I replaced it with a new Black Widow SAIII.



Oh I had an older (2002 I think) Hunter and yes, I know what you mean about the stacking on the older ones, but my new one (about 2 months old) is pretty smooth on the draw all the way out to my 30". I know they changed the brace height specs this year, but yeah, I get the impression they've made an effort to make the Hunter a smoother shooting bow


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## cpnkidd (Jul 28, 2007)

I love the Widow SAIII. I like the way it looks and feels and shoots. And if someone is of a mind to sell one they get back a whole lot of what they paid for it but its pretty nasty pill to swallow to have to sell a widow.


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## dalebow (Nov 28, 2004)

Got my first, exotic longbow this year, ironwood and all black glass with birdseye over the boo and carbon and glass core, 52# and quick and smooth, my first BW and won't be my last


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## arrow flinger (Aug 3, 2007)

I test drove a PTF Black Widow in May. I have shot other BW takedowns and have loved everyone. My PTF Ironwood will be here next week in 60", 52lb. I have been pleased with everyone of them that I shot. My test drive was osage and was beautiful, but I felt the light yellow color would stand out too much for hunting. The greybark looks "cheap" to me, but blends in well for hunting. I chose the ironwood for a little extra weight to help alleviate hand shock and because it is also a beautiful bow. The service thru correspondence has been excellent with BW.


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## rt2bowhunter (Feb 27, 2005)

I had an shot a widow.They are good bows are they the creme of the crop not in my book. 
Can you take less money an get a better bow yes. IMHO


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## Otto1 (Mar 11, 2007)

Well I'm a bit biased in that I own 5 of them. I also own over 20 other custom bows. I happen to shoot the BW's best. I think it's because of the mass in the riser. They do have a fair amount of mass in the riser and that makes for a steady bow to shoot. I've got Assenheimers, Chastains, Hummingbirds, RER's, you name it. But I shoot the Widows best, and THAT's what makes em worth it to me. They don't stack at my 29+ draw. Ain't many other bows out there that won't.

Not custom? Thats really intelligent. They've made 2 bows for me out of whatever I wanted em to and they've put copperhead skins on em. Any Dreamcatchers out there with factory applied copperhead skins? I didn't think so. 

The CNC comment is really ignorant. Incredibly ignorant. The man who makes the most gorgeous bows on the planet, Norm Johnson of Blacktail bows, uses a CNC machine. Call Norm and tell him his bows aren't custom made cause he uses a CNC mill on his risers. 

I keep ordering custom bows from anybody who's got the time to make em. But I haven't found a bow that I can shoot any better.


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

*Cnc*

In my opinion the cnc machine was an investment in the future, they are more accurate than doing by hand and quite a bit faster witch means more bows produced and that cuts down the wait time= faster delivery,and it also keeps the cost lower on both ends.
Both of mine were made in the early 1990's and were over $700 delivered todays bows realy are not that much more taking into account 16 years of inflation,so the cnc is doing its job.
In the late 80's and early 90's top of the line compounds were aruond $400 now they are $1000 so it all equals out.


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