# Paper Tuning...... PHOOOEY!!!!



## nccrutch (Feb 26, 2003)

Cool! How did you get to that point w/o paper tuning? Did you just go with a 13/16" centershot and a square nock?


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

nccrutch,

Yes, I started with those settings. First bare shaft hit left of fletched shafts about 6" at 20 yards (keep in mind this is a left handed bow and all measurements were in spec to start). Made a slight windage adjustment on rest. Fletched shafts and bare shaft moved the same amount, this tells you that rest adjustments will not correct the problem. presssed the bow and twisted the arrow side of buss cable 1/2 turn. Next shots, the bare shaft was half the distance from the fletched shafts. Added another 1/2 twist to the arrow side of the buss cable and the groups came together. Adjusted my sights, and backed out to 30 yards to make sure centershot stayed the same. Rest actually ended up a little off of 13/16" but nock point stayed square. I have tried Muzzy's, Razorcaps, and Bear razorhead Lites, they all group the same.
It is a relatively time consuming process, that's why most pro shops will only paper tune and send you on your way.
Hope this helps..

Rick


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## Silver Mallard (Mar 25, 2004)

*Cool!*

Good Job Rick! Have fun with that bow!


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## GVDocHoliday (Jan 20, 2003)

What do you mean by the arrow side of the buss cable?


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Hi Doc,
On my left handed bow, with bare shaft hitting left of fletched shafts, I twisted the right side of the split buss on the idler as looking from the back of the bow. That is the buss on the sight window side of a left handed bow, I called it the arrow side for simplicity. Exact opposite for right hand shooters I'm sure.
Sorry for the confusion..


Rick


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

now that you got all that done, shoot it through paper at 7 feet. be intresting to see what tear you get...


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## Nexus6 (Jan 27, 2003)

I determined that paper tuning was a money gimmick for shops and stopped worrying about it. Besides that, I shoot drop aways rests and that alone ought to take the paper tuning out of the procedure. Last time a shop shot mine through paper (for free after I bought a new rest), they said my arrows wouldn't paper tune because they were too stiff. I told them to forget what the paper says and get the center shot adjusted..I could take it from there. The arrows fly and group good so what more can I ask for? I do love the way you made adjustment with the cables, I have not seen that one before. I usually play with the tiller until it feels the best.


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## michihunter (Mar 2, 2003)

Truer words were never spoken!! Thanks Rick!! I've been saying it til I've given up. Some people will swear that's the only way to tune a bow. Yet they forget that the shaft is actually flexing during it's flight path. But to each his ownm. I'll stick with the bare shaft and your advice!!


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Hi Michi,
Good to hear from you again.

Bees,
Shot thru paper at 7 feet per your request;
fletched shaft 1/8" right rear
bare shaft 3/4" right tear
Keep in mind this is on a left hand bow.

Rick


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## CWG (Nov 20, 2003)

yeah what ricknkansas said.
I have always known paper tune is a crazymaker. Papertune then you wind up moving the rest nock etc when you go outside.
I got 3 bareshafts, 3 fp's and 3 broadheads all in same POI @ 30 yards.
Get/DL Eastons guide, worth the money to print it out, save it. My bare shafts will go all the way thru my broadhead target at 30, a little extra work pays off in FPS too. Picked up about 5 when all was done and said. Mostly an excellent flight


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## ELKARCHER (Apr 21, 2003)

Are you guys shooting fingers or releases?


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## xring_assassin (Jan 1, 2005)

*I agree - paper tuning is PHOOEY!!!*

To tune bows I've always used the BIGGEST two blade broadheads I can find to tune my bows as my luck with paper has been..... "unpleasant". 
I index and spin test two broadheads on my arrows, one laying totally horizontal and one standing vertical. I then start shooting them from 20 yards (once sighted in with field point of course) and "twiddle" as neccessary to make both broadheads hit in the same spot, then back up further and tweak and twiddle more until such time as those big, front rudder guided arrows hit the same point back at 70 yards, then I fine tune the sights with field points.
I was taught this trick by Russ Thornberry - editor of buckmasters magazine when he used to live in Alberta. Still works great in my books!! I can still spud a 6 inch circle 90% of the time out at 70 with a broadhead.
Of course if the arrow with horizontal broadhead goes up or down porpoising (up and down version of fishtail and I can't spell), then the rest is either high or low. Rest right or left would NOT be reflected with the blade aligned horizontal.
If arrow goes wonky with vertical indexed broadhead, then adjust left or right until it flies correctly.
THEN index ALL your broadheads the same way so they sit EXACTLY the same on your bow once you nock them up.
Chuck Adams - look at his broadheads in older pics....I say older as I don't see any newer ones with him at full draw like when he was pushing the "grand slam" line of things.....all his broadheads were large two blade, cut on contact ones indexed to lay perfectly horizontal. 
I was told an archer is more likely to flinch left or right than up or down, thus arrows indexed with broadheads aligned horizontally SHOULD be more forgiving to tune. I was told this - I've no reason to beleive it untrue, feel free to proove me wrong 
Call me a die hard - I refuse to shoot those colapsing style mechanical things. They might be okay for the neighbors dog or gophers, but 400 pound Alberta deer....I just don't trust them. 
That and shooting a mechanical broadhead to avoid properly tuning a bow is PHOOEY in the second degree. 

nice to see someone else knows how to get broadheads flying right without that paper. Only use I have for paper is wiping my............

JB


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## MrPenguin (May 6, 2005)

RicknKansas said:


> nccrutch,
> 
> Yes, I started with those settings. First bare shaft hit left of fletched shafts about 6" at 20 yards (keep in mind this is a left handed bow and all measurements were in spec to start). Made a slight windage adjustment on rest. Fletched shafts and bare shaft moved the same amount, this tells you that rest adjustments will not correct the problem. presssed the bow and twisted the arrow side of buss cable 1/2 turn. Next shots, the bare shaft was half the distance from the fletched shafts. Added another 1/2 twist to the arrow side of the buss cable and the groups came together. Adjusted my sights, and backed out to 30 yards to make sure centershot stayed the same. Rest actually ended up a little off of 13/16" but nock point stayed square. I have tried Muzzy's, Razorcaps, and Bear razorhead Lites, they all group the same.
> It is a relatively time consuming process, that's why most pro shops will only paper tune and send you on your way.
> ...



Can you please explain this a bit more, i have no idea what you are talking about :angry: 
What do you mean by twisting the arrow side of the buss cable ?
and what is this 13/16" ??

thanks


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

MrPenguin said:


> Can you please explain this a bit more, i have no idea what you are talking about :angry:
> What do you mean by twisting the arrow side of the buss cable ?
> and what is this 13/16" ??
> 
> thanks


First, these adjustments were for my Mathews Switchback, they will work on a few other Mathews bows; i.e. Outback. 
If you're shooting a single cam centershot bow the buss twisting is usually not needed.
13/16" is the recommended measurement from the berger hole ( the threaded hole in the riser the arrow rest bolts into) to the center of your arrow rest or the theoretical center of you arrow .
The split buss cable connects on either side of the upper limb, the arrow side of the buss will be the left side of the split buss as looking from the back of the bow for a right hand bow and the right side of the buss cable on a left hand bow.
Clear as mud right!!!!
These models of Mathews bows are not centershot, meaning the string is not in the center of the bow (relatively speaking) when the bow is relaxed. The string only lines up with the center of the bow at full draw. To tune these bows you must get the idler wheel set at a slight angle when the bow is relaxed (idler lean) this is accomplished by twisting one side of the split buss cable slightly more than the other side.

Hope this helps.

Rick


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## MrPenguin (May 6, 2005)

Oh I see, thanks
I have a PSE Triton so I guess this is not relevant to me ...


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## cloquet (Jan 12, 2004)

Were you shooting with a release? Will shortening one side of the buss cable bring broadheads and field points closer together? My broadheads are the same height but impact about three inchs right of the field points. I shoot a right handed bow.


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

cloquet said:


> Were you shooting with a release? Will shortening one side of the buss cable bring broadheads and field points closer together? My broadheads are the same height but impact about three inchs right of the field points. I shoot a right handed bow.


What bow? 
Are all the bows measurements in spec ( ATA, cam timing, etc.)
Have you tried moving the rest in small increments yet?
You don't want to go tweaking your buss cables unless everything else is right it will just compound another problem.

Rick


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## cloquet (Jan 12, 2004)

I have a right hand Mathews Icon. It has 60 lb. limbs turned down a little, and I shoot a whisker biscuit. I have centershot set so that all the way from 10 yds to 50 yds the arrow falls directly below the aiming point with both broadheads (muzzy 4 bld 100 grn) and field points. (within my shooting ability). The broadheads are always a few inchs to the right of the field points. Tweaking the rest moves both about the same distance. Nothing to be gained by doing any more of that. I am shooting GT5575 @ 28 inchs. I have played with different lengths both shorter and up to 30 inchs. Nothing to be gained there either.


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Hi Cloquet,
I'm not real familiar with the Concentric Solocam on the Icon, but from what you describe I would try 1/2 twist on the left side of the split buss cable as you're looking from the back of the bow. 
Yes, I am shooting a release.

Let me know if this works for you....

Rick


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## cloquet (Jan 12, 2004)

Hi Rick. Had my bow set up at a Mathews dealer. Thought everthing was in spec. When I took off the buss cables to add the 1/2 twist I found the right side had 7 twists and the arrow rest side had 4 twists. I don't know what the correct # should be so I gave each side 5 twists and gave it a try. Major improvement. There is much to be said about doing things for yourself. Its just the learning curve, and you helped me a lot. Thank you, Tom. :angel:


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## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

RicknKansas said:


> You read a lot of questions here about paper tuning. Please, people don't waste your valuable time. Only shoot through paper if you think the bow is so far out of tune a bare shaft won't hit the target.
> 
> Here's what a tuned bow should do..
> Switchback 72 lbs. 29 in. draw
> ...



Sounds good to me!!


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

cloquet said:


> Hi Rick. Had my bow set up at a Mathews dealer. Thought everthing was in spec. When I took off the buss cables to add the 1/2 twist I found the right side had 7 twists and the arrow rest side had 4 twists. I don't know what the correct # should be so I gave each side 5 twists and gave it a try. Major improvement. There is much to be said about doing things for yourself. Its just the learning curve, and you helped me a lot. Thank you, Tom. :angel:


Thanks for the kind words, but this information has been out there a long time.
I'm going out on a limb here and will probably step on some toes but;
A pro shop will go broke tuning a bow like I do, it's time consuming and labor intensive especially on the newer Mathews models(my Switchback has been pressed more times than a lot of Olympic weights). I feel it's up to the individual to take the starting point a pro shop gives you and improve on it to get the optimum performance from your bow. 
I'm not knocking pro shops, they are great. But if they could only micro-tune 10 bows a week, that wouldn't pay the light bill. 
IMHO paper tuning pays the light bill.

Rick


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## Kelsnore (Feb 7, 2005)

Actually, people demand it! Next time you open your outdoor magazine, and there is an article on tuning tips, check out how "Joe Bob Outdoor Magazine Writer Boy" talks mostly about paper tuning. I read an article that said "if the bow doesn't paper tune, exchange it, or get your money back"! As a result, people demand it! :mg:


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## Cool Arrow (Jul 13, 2005)

I've been using walk back or plumb bob tuning for a while and had never considered bare shaft until I saw your results. so I tried it and after a making some adjustments, bare shaft and fletched shaft were grouping side by side at 24 yards. then it dawned on me, maybe I don't need fletchings. so as I shot my last arrow with fletching at 48 yards, I nocked the bare shaft and let it fly, and fly and fly. Uhh.... I do need fletched arrows. I have always known that when my bow was shooting it's best, it would'nt shoot bullet holes in paper. thanks for the info rick.


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## cassellm (Feb 13, 2004)

*Bare Shaft*

Will this method work with a Q-2.


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## teammac (Jul 17, 2004)

This yoke twisting can apply to possibly any single cam bow with a split yoke. I have a PSE Quantum and during fine tuning adjustments have made such yoke twists to correct grouping as well. I'll also agree that paper tuning is a crazymaker. Bare shaft testing is the way to go.


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