# IBO Scoring Question?



## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

While shooting for fun on Sunday we had a situation and we couldn't agree on an answer. I have checked the IBO rules and this exact case is not outlined, but interpretations can be made.

A guy shooting pin nocks pinwheels the 11. The next shooter hits his arrow in the nock and causes damage to both the nock and pin insert. Had shooter #1 not been using pin nocks there is a chance of a robinhood or at least a trashed arrow. But shooter #2's arrow deflects off the metal pin nock and deflects to an 8. It would have been a certain 11 had it not struck his arrow that had damage to prove it. Had shooter #2's arrow bounced off and not stuck it would have been an 11 or had it been a robinhood it would be an 11. But in this case we were split on the scoring. Not that it mattered but we are now curious. I felt an 11 would be appropriate since it's obvious the arrow was going to be an eleven. Others disagreed. Let's hear the ruling because something tells me I'm wrong............


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## bluejacket (Dec 19, 2003)

Yep, you are wrong. The arrow scores where it lands in the target. The only exception is if the impact prevents the arrow from sticking in the target.


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## flintcreek6412 (Jun 27, 2006)

So in other words, I should also use pin nocks to ruin others good shots and I should volunteer to go 1st as often as possible except on that dang turkey where I can always use the help spotting the vitals:darkbeer:

Thanks for the clarification:thumbs_up


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## Jeff Heeg (Nov 24, 2005)

Pin nocks were not designed to purposely ruin other peoples goods shots or scores, but more so to help prevent or lessen the degree of damage done to your expensive arrows, for some folks expensive could be 50.00 and others 150.00 a dozen. 

Even the glance outs caused by regular nocks can be unfortunate to some, but in the same breath nobody grumbles about when a glance off throws you into the higher scoring ring it goes both ways and you just have to take what you get and score it where it lands, that why they rotate who starts every round.


Good Shooting

Jeff


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

I had the same thing happen at bedford. I was in the 11 and a guys arrow hit mine and pushed him down into the 8. 2 people in my group wanted to inspect my arrow for damage so I let them and there was a scratch in my uni bushing so they said he gets a 11 and they scored it that way.

I think that there is a rule for when you hit an arrow and damage it and it does not stick in the target. That it gets scored the same as the damaged arrow. It would be nice to get this cleared up so every one is doing the same thing. (I think he should have got an 8)


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## jconway-ky (Oct 16, 2008)

*here you go*

it summes it up for me, this is from rule book, .....f. An arrow embedded into the nock end of an arrow embedded in the target shall be scored the same as the arrow embedded into the target. An arrow that hits another arrow-with the arrow being struck showing visible damage-that does not stick in the target shall be given the score of the arrow that was struck. The majority of the group must agree that 1) a particular arrow was struck, and 2) that striking the arrow 
prevented the arrow from sticking in the target, or the arrow shall be scored as a miss......in other words you can hit somebody elses arrow and hope theirs was a 11...then you completely miss it..if you stick somewhere else in the target..then thats your score....


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## talkalot (Apr 24, 2005)

Sorry....he got an 8 on that arrow.


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## WVBowhunter10 (May 15, 2006)

If the arrow sticks the score sticks. It would not have mattered if the arrow broke in half. That is the nature of the beast with those pin nocks and that is why I use them.


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

8.........


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## Justin17 (May 4, 2006)

I don't think it's right to give someone an 8 if they earned an 11, but that's just how the game works unfortunately. Hitting someone's arrow has helped me just as much as it has hurt me.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

The rules clearly state deflected arrows are scored where the stick in the target.

bow-legged that guy in your group should have gotten an 8 not 11. I would have protested his score.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

this is whay I hate IBO shoots, no one knows the rules or decides not to read the rules then you get pencil whipped everytime you shoot at one of these events. Break up the buddy system and put a rule book in every groups hands or have a range official close say every 5 or 10 targets to call arrows.


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

*If an 8, that sucks*

There is a series in New Mexico that states, "when an arrow hits another arrow in the target, If the first arrow is shootable the second receives the score at the point it hits or misses the target, but if the first arrow is unshootable then the second receives the same score as the first." Now that is the fairest way I have ever heard of this situation.


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## rock monkey (Dec 28, 2002)

*f. An arrow embedded into the nock end of an arrow embedded in the target shall be scored the same as the arrow embedded into the target. An arrow that hits another arrow—with the arrow being struck showing visible damage—that does not stick in the target shall be given the score of the arrow that was struck. The majority of the group must agree that 1) a particular arrow was struck, and 2) that striking the arrow prevented the arrow from sticking in the target, or the arrow shall be scored as a miss.*


read the underlined portion CAREFULLY, and it is also underlined in the IBO rules.

he scores the arrow where it is. PERIOD. that is what the rules state and that is what he gets.

im certain noone would complain if the arrow was deflected into a higher ring.

yall wanna complain about tournament officials not knowin the rules, it's pretty obvious the group didnt know them either.

here's the link, print em out and take em with ya. i get tired of people that enjoy blaming others for their laziness
http://ibo.net/pdf/2009IBO RULES.pdf

just another reason why i dont like the 3d stuff.


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## JC07Rhino (Jan 13, 2007)

wirenut583 said:


> There is a series in New Mexico that states, "when an arrow hits another arrow in the target, If the first arrow is shootable the second receives the score at the point it hits or misses the target, but if the first arrow is unshootable then the second receives the same score as the first." Now that is the fairest way I have ever heard of this situation.


i am also too from new mexico and let me sum it up even more. the rule does state what wire said it does. but that does not mean you can take the pin nock/ nock off and replace it with another one and say, "hey look it is still shoot-able." if you can take it out of the target and nock it and shoot it then it is then shoot-able.


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## jconway-ky (Oct 16, 2008)

JC07Rhino said:


> i am also too from new mexico and let me sum it up even more. the rule does state what wire said it does. but that does not mean you can take the pin nock/ nock off and replace it with another one and say, "hey look it is still shoot-able." if you can take it out of the target and nock it and shoot it then it is then shoot-able.


what??????????????you lost me.....


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## wirenut583 (Nov 4, 2007)

IF the nock or arrow are not shootable when pulled from the target the second arrow is scored just like the first. This is in the rules for the newmexicoarchery.com tour series, not IBO


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

I think where some of the confusion of this rule lies is in one of the IBO publications it states that if an arrow is damaged then and all in the group agree then you score the arrow the same as the damaged one....Myself and one other guy both have this 09 version of the rule book. The website states exactly as printed above. To clarify this I called the IBO on Thursday....the lady who answered the phone stated that from her understanding the arrow is scored where it stuck in the target. However she was 100% confident in this and I'm waiting for a return call to find out the final ruling. Once I get that I'll let you everyone know what they said.

Personally I feel that if an arrow is struck, no matter where and there is visible damage to the arrow then the archer should be given that point....you're basically hurting someone for making a good shot (if they strike and arrow already in the 11) and rewarding them if they make a bad one (hitting an arrow in the 8 and deflecting into a 10 or 11). This is just my opinion, nothing more.....Honestly I'd be happy if the rule read an if an archer strikes another persons arrow and there is visible damage to the arrow then the archer will be scored either the score of the damaged arrow or the point where the archers arrow stuck in the target, whichever point total is higher....This would then give all questionable calls to the archer.


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## bluejacket (Dec 19, 2003)

" The arrow scores where it lands in the target. The only exception is if the impact prevents the arrow from sticking in the target. "

I guess I was too subtle when I posted this as the second post in this thread.
There are No instances where an arrow will score anything other than where it lands in the target. It does not matter what the shooter or the group thinks it might have been or should have been, it scores where it lands. 

If, and only if it passes completely through or bounces back off of the target can the group decide on score, and then only if it is witnessed. 

If the shot arrow *is prevented from sticking in the target *because it either robinhoods another arrow, or deflects off of another arrow causing damage to it it can then, and only then be scored with the damaged arrow.

Now if you have an IBO publication stateing otherwise, please provide the specific information so I can backtrack to see why, when or how it was generated.

Hope this clears it up for everyone.
Chris Turner
IBO Secretary / Treasurer
Chairman Rules Committee


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## Pa Paw (May 19, 2009)

*Ibo glance outs*

I overheard a discussion between and individual and tent official at A concerning glance outs. The individuals arrow glanced off another arrow, didnt stick in target. The shooters agreed and he got the score of the arrow he hit.


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## bluejacket (Dec 19, 2003)

Assuming there was visible damage to the arrow that was hit, it sounds like they made the correct call.


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## HOMEYJAMES (Jul 22, 2008)

*Warning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



jconway-ky said:


> what??????????????you lost me.....


do not buy anything from jcconway-ky julie conway !!!!!!!! I bought her apex on may 10 through pay-pal and still have not received it or the tracking number and she will not respond to myself, archery talk or pay-pal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HOMEYJAMES (Jul 22, 2008)

*Warning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*



jconway-ky said:


> what??????????????you lost me.....


DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM jconway-ky JULIE CONWAY !!!!!!!! I BOUGHT HER APEX ON MAY 10 THROUGH PAY-PAL AND STILL HAVE NOT RECEIVED IT OR THE TRACKING NUMBER AND SHE WILL NOT RESPOND TO MYSELF, ARCHERY TALK OR PAY-PAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kw706 (Jun 18, 2005)

*Arrow deflection*

I was at the MI 3rd leg of the IBO triple crown today I shot and hit the 11 ring my buddy shot and hit my arrow defleced his arrow into the 8 that what he scored and 8 . That the way it is at any shot. IBO , ASA , USBA any shot I been to. Like they said were the arrow ends up is what you score.


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## Elf Friend (Mar 1, 2003)

HOMEYJAMES said:


> DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM jconway-ky JULIE CONWAY !!!!!!!! I BOUGHT HER APEX ON MAY 10 THROUGH PAY-PAL AND STILL HAVE NOT RECEIVED IT OR THE TRACKING NUMBER AND SHE WILL NOT RESPOND TO MYSELF, ARCHERY TALK OR PAY-PAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You need toi take this matter up with the classified mods, not the general population.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Thanks for the warning!


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## Kale (Jul 29, 2007)

this is why you take turns on who shoots first. Next time it might be the other guy that gets knocked into an 8 by hitting your arrow in the 11! 

Haha if someone hit my arrow in the 11 and got knocked out for a lower score then tried to say they should have an 11 I would laugh at them...

Read the rules before you go to a shoot or call over a judge if you are unsure.


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## jwolfe78 (Mar 10, 2006)

It is an 8.... learn to pick sides of the 11 ring.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Sooooo....IF an arrow hits another arrow, and misses the target completely, but the first arrow shows visible damage, then the arrow that missed the target gets scored the same as the damaged arrow...BUT...If the second arrow hits the first arrow, causes visible damage to the first arrow, and deflects into a 5, or 8, then that arrow counts for that score..Right??..How does that make sense??...An arrow hits another arrow, causes visible damage, but blanks the target, but gets called as the same score as the damaged arrow...But the same scenario happens, and the struck arrow is visibly damaged, but the second arrow scores a 5 or 8??..A total deflection gets the same score, but a partial deflection gets scored lower??..How does that make sense??..I'm not questioning what the Rules say, I'm questioning WHY the rules are written that way...Lets be real...IF an arrow is in the 11 ring, and someone hits it square enough to damage it, but deflects into an 8, or 5, they get that score...But, hit that arrow in the 11 ring square enough to damage it, miss the target completely, and score an 11??..Yeah, that makes PERFECT sense....L.O.L...Harperman


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## Grnmtn (Feb 1, 2003)

Some times you have to play to the sportsmanship side of the game. The rules are pretty clear on the deflection side of the issue. I think at times tho you need to let common sence rule and discuss it amongst the group. 95% of the time the group as a whole will give the benifit to the shooter of the second arrow, expecially in a situation where some one is trying to push a Fatboy style arrow down a Carbon force or simular style of smaller shaft. The nock is smashed, uni buyshing split as well as the back of the arrow beginning to split, No way is that arrow going to tube the other one. 

For backyard practice and competition with your buddies... laugh buy him a beer afterwards and tell him not to put his arrow in the 11 again.


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## bowpro34 (Jun 17, 2007)

There's no way you can have the glance outs get the higher score or the damaged arrow. My reasoning is because there will be many guys abuse that rule. 

1. If you look at any of my arrows, the uni-bushing takes some serious abuse so there is always a mark there if you are looking for one. 

2. Also I have shot with some great shooters before and had some great grouping arrows so there could be argument as to whose arrow was glanced out.

3. Maybe most notably though is that there are lots of times that arrows kick in the target. I might have an 11 but my nock is kicked up to an 8. If someone hits my nock, I'll be darned if they earned an 11.

Just my opinion


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