# My 3d Rant!!!!



## ES21 (Jun 10, 2004)

Don't move if you don't want to. Simply ask the club if they can send a member out to shoot with you. That should remove all doubt. 

I can see both sides of this, you are shooting a sight that can easily move, so yes there should be questions if your winning by a big margin. 

Take this as a good thing and don't hesitate to prove yourself. You may have to shoot in a group behind your buddies once or twice but it is well worth it.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

we had a 4 man team shoot this weekend.the way the rules work your 4 man team gets split with another team to keep it honest.the group we shot with questioned my sight right away and after explaining to them and showing them i dont move it they were fine. they were quite intrigued by it all especially the 55yd elk which required me to hold about 4in over the top of his back.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*Not Fair.*

I don't see the big deal if you are just shooting for fun (like you said) But if you are winning prize money or trophies that's different.

I usually shoot womens hunter class but this weekend I Shot in an IBO Shoot and had to shoot open, just because I had glue in tips instead of screw in.

I shot it and was really out of my comfort zone. Was I happy about it? NO, but that's the rules. 
I figured at the very least it would make me a BETTER Shooter. But instead I ended up winning it and no one called me a cheater either.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

i am shooting for (fun).but yes the clubs give out trophies and the team shoot we won had a cash prize.i am abiding by there rules.i'm basically shooting a single fixed up pin sight.a couple of the guys i shoot with shoot the hunter class also and believe me as competitive as they are they wouldnt let me get by with cheating.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

mofarmboy said:


> i.a couple of the guys i shoot with shoot the hunter class also and believe me as competitive as they are they wouldnt let me get by with cheating.


It's not the ones you shoot with that will talk it's all the other shooters that will have a problem with you beating them. Unless the ones you shot with will stick up for you and make the complainers be quiet.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

yes they have stuck up for me.they have been shooting longer so they know more people at the shoots and have been asked about my sight,they reassure them it doesnt move. i did see that extrme just came out with a fixed single up pin sight i might just get one of these to shut up all the whiners.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

*It won't work*



mofarmboy said:


> i did see that extrme just came out with a fixed single up pin sight i might just get one of these to shut up all the whiners.


That won't stop them!!

You just keep having fun, the whiners will never shut up. They'll find something else to complain about. I know because theire relatives shoot at our shoots

maybe they shoould just practice more and then you wouldn't beat them as bad!!:tongue::wink:


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## Deerslayer25 (Mar 11, 2006)

I've seen guys that shoot the single pin class in T.H.E. 3D, zip tie their target Sure-locs so that they can't be moved. That is one way to show that your not moving it.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Deerslayer25 said:


> I've seen guys that shoot the single pin class in T.H.E. 3D, zip tie their target Sure-locs so that they can't be moved. That is one way to show that your not moving it.


thats a pretty good idea.i already removed my sight tape and cleaned any marks off the slider so people can see i have no refrence marks of any kind.some people just cant understand that its not that hard to pick a spot to hold 2 or 4 or even a foot over the 12 ring.thanks for all the input.


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## huntindoc (Feb 8, 2006)

Don't worry about what a few poor losers think, you know that you're winning fair and square.

Have you considered putting your tape back on and stepping up to unlimited? We have several guys that shoot fixed pins and short stabs in that class. If you really want to use it as practice for hunting why not use your hunting set up? Don't sell yourself short. If you're that dominant in hunter class you can compete in the next level.

hd


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

huntindoc said:


> Don't worry about what a few poor losers think, you know that you're winning fair and square.
> 
> Have you considered putting your tape back on and stepping up to unlimited? We have several guys that shoot fixed pins and short stabs in that class. If you really want to use it as practice for hunting why not use your hunting set up? Don't sell yourself short. If you're that dominant in hunter class you can compete in the next level.
> 
> hd


i have considered picking up a 4x lens and using my hha in the open class.most local shoots have less than 5 shooters in the open compared to 50 or so in the hunter class.
as for using my hunting rig. i usually do shoot it for 3d the last couple months before seaon starts.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Always shoot with someone and tell whoever you are not in the Open Class. Keep on shooting and don't forget to have fun. I like the ranting and joking around with my friends more than the trophies (I haven't picked up 3 trophies/awards this year).


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

If you're in it for fun, the answer is simple: Just don't turn in a score card. Otherwise I think you should mount another sight to shoot 3D. Just my .02 worth.


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## JPE (Feb 1, 2004)

carlosii said:


> If you're in it for fun, the answer is simple: Just don't turn in a score card. Otherwise I think you should mount another sight to shoot 3D. Just my .02 worth.


I'd have to agree. 3D is a game. Games have rules. If you're truly in it just for the practice then DQ your score and don't worry about winning.

If you're starting to get into 3D and have come to like the competition and winning aspect of the game, then play by the rules.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Used to be that IBO's definition of a fixed pin sight was "one that needed a tool to adjust it." Then guys started putting a rack of fixed pins on Sureloc and Tox slide bars and the rule was either ignored or was changed. Personally I see no difference between a rack of pins or one IF neither are moved during competition. The perception however of some folks would be that the single pin is being moved like a scope. A friend of mine used to shoot the same way you do MOFARMBOY........we called him "a one pin shootin SOB".:wink:


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## NerdHick (Aug 20, 2006)

Live and Die by the Rules.

Don't turn your card in and there are no problems.


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## Iluvatar (Oct 13, 2006)

I agree with the others on here that say to not turn in your scorecard. If you don't want to move up in class, thats fine, just don't post a score. If you want to continue turning in your score, you should move up in class.


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## Fortancient (Jan 9, 2006)

You always have the option of not turning in your score. My hunting set up with fixed pins would put me into a class with all sorts of high tech equip so I just dont turn my score in. I shoot to practice for hunting season and like the excercize. I tel lthem up fron I am not turning my score in, I judge the distance, shoot it with my rangefinder as I do any deer or animal, and make the shot. Much more relaxing for me this way.


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

mofarmboy said:


> i am shooting for (fun).but yes the clubs give out trophies and the team shoot we won had a cash prize.


Here is a point of view that you need to consider. The moment you accept a trophy or money based on the score that you shot on the range you are no longer shooting for fun, you are competing. If you choose to compete you are subject to any and all scrutiny of the rules of that competition. If you truly are shooting for fun, then merely let the trophy or money go to the next person in line.

Here in our coalition, shooters tell us before they shoot that they are going to shoot a fun round, and even though the turn their cards in, they acknowledge the fact that they are not eligible for any of the prizes for that class. We post their scores but in a separate group. 

Put the shoe on the other foot, and think about how you would feel if someone who was supposed to be shooting for fun kept taking home the trophies and prize money in your class instead of you.

Congrats on the good shooting though.


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## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

In archery u are guilty of cheating till proven otherwise thats just the way it is for some reason.Thats on the 3-d course anyway.The only way to show people U can shoot is shoot with them or shoot with people U dont know.people talk and they can call BS on them if your name is brought up.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

let me start by saying I AM ABIDING BY THE RULES!!!!! there is no rule that says you cant shoot a single fixed up pin!!!! as for not turning a card in.i paid my 10bucks to shoot and abided by the rules so why not be eligible to win the prizes?
the only reason i dont go to a fixed multiple pin sight is after shooting a hha with the up pin for hunting i cant shoot the side pins as well.
does anyone know if they make just a universal fixed mounting bracket that i could attach a hha or viper scope to?
as for being called out...... at our team shoot this weekend i decided my team should shoot against the (team to beat). it turned out very well we won the shoot and beat them by 14 points.i know these guys can know vouch for me and my single pin style shooting.


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## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

mofarmboy said:


> heres the deal i started shooting 3d last summer.mainly for practice come deer season. i shoot hha sliders on all my hunting bows.so to keep from being called a cheater i removed my sight tapes and shot them like a single pin sight.
> the group of guys i shoot with have been shooting for a few years and shoot very well.it doesnt take long to get to the top when you shoot with the best.since getting my new commander a couple months ago i've won a handful of local shoots a few by a pretty good margin.
> the problem is now that i'm winning people are complaining of the sight i use even though i dont adjust it i just hold over or under as needed.
> also two clubs asked me to move up to the open class which i have no desire to do.i shoot to practice for hunting season and i dont hunt with a 30in stab clicker and lens!!!
> ...


If you have won more than 2 shooters of the year awards at this particular club then you must advance to the next level, which would be open class. You would be required to do this even in IBO shootsw as well.

Also if the club you are shooting at has adopted IBO rules, then you would be required to shoot in the open class, because by definition your slider sight is a moveable sight(even though you are not shooting it as such) and requires you to shoot the open class.

good luck


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

I shoot a sure-loc challenger with a classic scope no lens set at 27 yards. I have shot all the IBO nationals and world championship with it. My equipment has been checked every time I have shot and it is legal. I dont know where you guys come up with with this moveable sight crap. You can shoot a moveable sight in the IBO hunter class as long as you dont adjust it.


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Here is a pic of my sight.


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## jre4192 (Apr 25, 2005)

JPE said:


> I'd have to agree. 3D is a game. Games have rules. If you're truly in it just for the practice then DQ your score and don't worry about winning.
> 
> If you're starting to get into 3D and have come to like the competition and winning aspect of the game, then play by the rules.


Sounds to me like he is playing by the rules. He is completely legal to shoot that sight in hunter class as long as he doesnt move it.


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## Ohio_3Der (Jul 19, 2002)

*The big problem....*

Some people on the thread are quoting IBO rules. By IBO rules, these people are correct, the sight is legal in the hunter class as long as you don't adjust it after you enter the course. As a match director locally, I wouldn't have a problem with this sight at all, him taking off all the yardage marks just solidifies this for me, personally, but that isn't required by rules. Just think about all the new hunting sights out there now that you can adjust a pin without using a tool, those are no different. The rules say that you can't move your sight, they don't say whether or not the sight can be moved, or in what method it can be moved, anymore. 

The problem is that the clubs that this guy is shooting at are obviously not using IBO rules. See the second post by Mofarmboy in the thread that said he shot at a 55 yard elk. There are absolutely zero 55 yard elk shots in the Hunter Class inside of the IBO. 

So, since they aren't shooting IBO rules, they can make the rules whatever they want to. If they say that a slider is a slider no matter if you move it or not, they can. If the clubs say that in order for this guy to continue to compete he needs to move up a class or change the sight, they rightfully can. It's their shoot, not the IBO's, and this guy can take it or leave it. 

Rules are rules, but be careful about what rules you are talking about. I know without a shadow of doubt that a moveable sight will be alllowed at any of the IBO triples or the world, but I also know without a shadow of doubt that all four of those shoots follow IBO rules. I can't say either about the shoots that the thread starter talks about.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

the heads of the clubs that asked me to move to open didnt do so because of my choice of sight.they said i should move up because i've won the last few shoots by a pretty big margin. the last 2 shoots one particular club put on i shot 16 and 20 up.but with a max of 40yds and center 12's i dont think thats all that great.plus its mid-season and i'm not going to change my whole set-up with 3 months to go.

AGAIN I WAS FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES SET BY THESE CLUBS!!!!


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

mofarmboy said:


> the heads of the clubs that asked me to move to open didnt do so because of my choice of sight.


Just want to clarify some things. 
1)You shoot for "fun", but you take the trophies and any winnings available.
2)Your competitors give you a hard time because you have a movable sight in a fixed pin class even though the sight is not moved and is not technically illegal.
3)Your local clubs have asked you to move up to another class because you have been dusting the field in your current class.

I don't understand why it is so hard to comply with the wishes of these people. If these folks ask you to move up then either move up or "actually" shoot for fun and let someone else have a chance at winning that trophy or money. 

Remember, they might ask you to go home next time and not let you shoot at all. If it meant losing you or 4-5 other folks because you stay, that will be an easy decision to any club Pres.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Spoon13 said:


> Just want to clarify some things.
> 1)You shoot for "fun", but you take the trophies and any winnings available.
> 2)Your competitors give you a hard time because you have a movable sight in a fixed pin class even though the sight is not moved and is not technically illegal.
> 3)Your local clubs have asked you to move up to another class because you have been dusting the field in your current class.
> ...


yes i shoot for fun but i also pay to shoot just like everyone else so if i win i will claim my prize just like everyone else.
the sight is legal for the class as long as its not moved once the shoot starts. people have been questioning yes.but once they see i have no sight tape or marks noone in their right mind could argue i was cheating.
you should i move up in the middle of my FIRST full year of shooting 3d? i shoot everyday for at least an hour to put an arrow in the spot i want with the equipment i choose to use.
if people are *****ing because of scores that someone put up get outside and practice thats what i did.


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

I agree with you mofarmboy. 

It's not your equipment that makes you better than your competition. . .although it's funny how people always think that right off the bat. 

It's practice that makes you a better archer. . .and I doubt anyone here can dispute that fact.

To me, I think you should zip-tie that sight and keep shooting like you are- it's obviously working and you are not breaking the rules as they are being administered by the club. You may actually be inspiring the people you are beating to become better. If I were in your club- you would definately be the one I'd be trying to beat.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

WrongdayJ said:


> I agree with you mofarmboy.
> 
> It's not your equipment that makes you better than your competition. . .although it's funny how people always think that right off the bat.
> 
> ...


thanks....... i know my buddies always talked about this guy who pretty much dominated the local shoots for the last few years.i set it as my goal to beat him at least once this year.i got to shoot with that guy a few weeks ago and thanked him for pushing me to practice that much more. i've beatin him a couple times now and it was nice to see all the practice pay off.


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## george myers (Dec 28, 2005)

"JB WELD" the slider part of the sight so that the sight will get destroyed before it moves.then it's a fixed pin sight.jb weld is cheap and the prep work as well as the application of the material is easy.


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## Deerslayer25 (Mar 11, 2006)

Spoon13 said:


> I don't understand why it is so hard to comply with the wishes of these people. If these folks ask you to move up then either move up or "actually" shoot for fun and let someone else have a chance at winning that trophy or money.
> 
> Remember, they might ask you to go home next time and not let you shoot at all. If it meant losing you or 4-5 other folks because you stay, that will be an easy decision to any club Pres.



So should Pros retire after they win a couple of times, because people are tired of lossing to them.




mofarmboy said:


> if people are *****ing because of scores that someone put up get outside and practice thats what i did.



I agree, if you are winning then, it is not because they are better, and if they want people to move up a class, then they need to state at the first of the year that if you score a certain score then you have to move up next year. Not in the middle of the year.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

george myers said:


> "JB WELD" the slider part of the sight so that the sight will get destroyed before it moves.then it's a fixed pin sight.jb weld is cheap and the prep work as well as the application of the material is easy.


that would probably remove any doubt. dont think i'm gonna ruin a 125 sight to settle a few people concerns.i've already removed sight tape and any reference marks.


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## G20 (Jan 31, 2008)

> Remember, they might ask you to go home next time and not let you shoot at all. If it meant losing you or 4-5 other folks because you stay, that will be an easy decision to any club Pres


That would be a sorry president for asking a man who has followed the rules to leave because he beat other competitors fair and square.

I would tell the 4 or 5 complainers to quit competing if they cant handle losing.


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## schling_us (Aug 24, 2006)

I feel your pain I shoot at least 5 days a week and in my second year shooting my local 3Dleague I won it for the year...the prize a certificate to hang on the wall...Let the uncofortable looks start:secret:


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## ultratec1 (Jan 3, 2005)

Man talk about Ironic..............PossumTrapper and I were just talking about this kind of situation earlier today. 


Here is my take on it, I love how guys say that they are just practicing for hunting but when a trophy is thrown in the mix then its a battle to win. If you really want to practice for hunting and make yourself a better shooter then move up to the open class. In all honesty what are you proving right now?? That you can beat some guys at your local shoot by 20-30 points?? Really, what are you doing to better yourself by that? You also say that the best way to get to be a better shooter is shoot against a good group of archers ,then once again I'm sure that the open class can offer that. If not they can at least offer you more challenging shots. You don't have to move your site or use a long stabilizer to shoot open, just go to the registration booth and circle open instead of hunter or whatever class you normally shoot. 

Do I think that you should HAVE to move...............I guess not. But your not doing yourself any favors by staying where your at and your sure in the hell not going to prove anything to anyone or yourself by staying put, beating guys that are not as good as yourself.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

ultratec1 said:


> Man talk about Ironic..............PossumTrapper and I were just talking about this kind of situation earlier today.
> 
> 
> Here is my take on it, I love how guys say that they are just practicing for hunting but when a trophy is thrown in the mix then its a battle to win. If you really want to practice for hunting and make yourself a better shooter then move up to the open class. In all honesty what are you proving right now?? That you can beat some guys at your local shoot by 20-30 points?? Really, what are you doing to better yourself by that? You also say that the best way to get to be a better shooter is shoot against a good group of archers ,then once again I'm sure that the open class can offer that. If not they can at least offer you more challenging shots. You don't have to move your site or use a long stabilizer to shoot open, just go to the registration booth and circle open instead of hunter or whatever class you normally shoot.
> ...


everyone has a competitive side myself included.it doesnt ruin my day if i dont win it does ruin my day if that arrow doesnt go in the spot i'm aiming.
the open classes at most of our local shoots usually have less than 4 or 5 shooters compared to 40-50 in hunter class.most of the time we shoot from the same stake if not the open is less than 3yds back.

i have to say i'm suprised by the variance in responses i've gotten on here. i think i hit on a touchy subject with a few people:zip:


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## george myers (Dec 28, 2005)

ultratec1 said:


> Man talk about Ironic..............PossumTrapper and I were just talking about this kind of situation earlier today.
> 
> 
> Here is my take on it, I love how guys say that they are just practicing for hunting but when a trophy is thrown in the mix then its a battle to win. If you really want to practice for hunting and make yourself a better shooter then move up to the open class. In all honesty what are you proving right now?? That you can beat some guys at your local shoot by 20-30 points?? Really, what are you doing to better yourself by that? You also say that the best way to get to be a better shooter is shoot against a good group of archers ,then once again I'm sure that the open class can offer that. If not they can at least offer you more challenging shots. You don't have to move your site or use a long stabilizer to shoot open, just go to the registration booth and circle open instead of hunter or whatever class you normally shoot.
> ...


i think that this is a good school of thought also.shoot open class with your current set-up.when you're beating all of the guys with the scopes and long stabilizers that'll make the group of whiners in the hunter class look pretty foolish.also i've always noticed that open class shooters are smug and make statements such as shoot from the "mans stake".they should get their a---s trimmed once in a while by a hunter set-up.and as ultratec1 stated,it will take your ability to the next level in the process.


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## muckdog (Dec 7, 2004)

mofarmboy said:


> everyone has a competitive side myself included.it doesnt ruin my day if i dont win it does ruin my day if that arrow doesnt go in the spot i'm aiming.
> the open classes at most of our local shoots usually have less than 4 or 5 shooters compared to 40-50 in hunter class.most of the time we shoot from the same stake if not the open is less than 3yds back.
> 
> i have to say i'm suprised by the variance in responses i've gotten on here. i think i hit on a touchy subject with a few people:zip:


I'd have to say that it's not much of an open class if they are shooting from the same stake or 3 or less yds. back. ukey:


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## OA3D (Feb 26, 2007)

Oh quit your whining...............
you know who I am and how I shoot. 
I won a local shoot and was asked to change classes. I had heard of these comments towards my methods but never directly. It was all good until I starting winning more often. If tey put it in the rules then fine. There are not to many local clubs that actually has the rules posted or written. Anyway, if you lock your sight down with no reference points you are shooting a fixed pin sight.


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## mojo54 (Feb 17, 2007)

I also agree with Ultratec1, witch is kinda scary !!! I also have to say thats the most intellegent thing I've ever heard from that boy.:darkbeer:


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## bow47man (Jun 2, 2006)

*Moveable Pin*

moveable pin = open class

no matter if you move it or not. i have been shooting an HHA moveable pin for four years now and i shoot mbo class. i love my sight. if i was shooting hunter class i would put on a fixed pin sight and make everyone shutup when i win the open class with my moveable sight.

my TWO cents. :darkbeer: mick


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

mojo54 said:


> I also agree with Ultratec1, witch is kinda scary !!! I also have to say thats the most intellegent thing I've ever heard from that boy.:darkbeer:


so you agree that a person in the middle of their first year of 3d should be bumped out of the hunter class because they are winning? how do they expect anyone to ever get good enough to compete at a national level? i've had 2 buddies jump up to open and one is already back shooting pins.his reasoning was he didnt enjoy it as much.

i would have no problem with a bump up policy if they had it in the rules or waited till the end of the year.


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## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

mofarmboy said:


> so you agree that a person in the middle of their first year of 3d should be bumped out of the hunter class because they are winning? how do they expect anyone to ever get good enough to compete at a national level? i've had 2 buddies jump up to open and one is already back shooting pins.his reasoning was he didnt enjoy it as much.
> 
> i would have no problem with a bump up policy if they had it in the rules or waited till the end of the year.


I dont think they are saying that for you in general.I think their point is the hunter class is a beginning class and if you or whomever is beating everyone by alot of points you prolly need to set up to the next level of shooting.that being said IMO they dont pay your entry fees to shoot so you can do whatever you want,besides local 3-d's are just for practice IMO cuz anyone can shoot with there buddies and its really on the honor system and from what I have seen dont cut it.I dont care what class you shoot but if you shoot real good you have to eliminate everything that someone can say or use to downgrade you if you care what they are saying and it sounds like you do or this post would not be here.good luck


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## red rabbit (Apr 23, 2008)

Are your scores competitive with the open shooters? Since you have advanced to the top of your class, do step to a more competitive class. Shooting against 5 open shooters may provide more challenge and satisfaction than going against 40 lesser opponents. In open, you can put your tape back on and move your sight like you would like when you hunt- which is why you said you are shooting 3D for fun. If you move to open, you would eliminate the equipment whiners that are obviously bothering you. 
I don't think moving up to a different class has to follow a timeline; why would one's skills mature only at the end of the season as opposed to the middle of a 3D season? When your ready, it's time- what is being proven by remaining in hunter class?

RR


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## mathewdbl_lung (Mar 17, 2008)

Lock that sight down with the suggested zip-tie, then they will have no reason to complain. As for jumping stright into open, I would try mens release/ mens hunter expert before jumping up to open.

However I do see both sides. You are using questionable equipment, so u set your self up for judgment. Also, if you are TRUELY in it just for hunting practice, why are you worried about eventualy competing on a national level?

I'm not trying to call you out, just trying to better understand. It is very hard to get a sence of someones character and sencerity by reading blogs. 

Best of luck to you, 3D can become no fun in a hurry.


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## ultratec1 (Jan 3, 2005)

mofarmboy said:


> so you agree that a person in the middle of their first year of 3d should be bumped out of the hunter class because they are winning? how do they expect anyone to ever get good enough to compete at a national level? i've had 2 buddies jump up to open and one is already back shooting pins.his reasoning was he didnt enjoy it as much.
> 
> i would have no problem with a bump up policy if they had it in the rules or waited till the end of the year.


You ask how anyone can expect to get good enough to compete at a national level if your bumped???? Huh???? 

How do you plan on getting better by shooting the samething over and over. What are you doing to improve your shooting besides competing against people that you have already beat on diffrent occasions. 

I think that this being your first year and you competing and winning is awesome. But if you want to better yourself and your shooting ability then start challening yourself. Take this as a compliment, I mean they are saying that you are TOO good shoot with the other guys. :wink:


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## Refuze2falo (Feb 1, 2008)

ultratec1 said:


> You ask how anyone can expect to get good enough to compete at a national level if your bumped???? Huh????
> 
> How do you plan on getting better by shooting the samething over and over. What are you doing to improve your shooting besides competing against people that you have already beat on diffrent occasions.


I say watch your scores and improve off of that .Yeah there is always some one ya want to beat that's competition but I look at every score card I have and compare to past shoots or similar dificulty ranges and try to improve that number (no 5's or just a few 8's)just cause you got first doesn't mean you haven't shot better 
I've shot with him and his "numbers" have been going up but he still hasn't aced a coarse
if there is a trophy or what not and you scored the best take it 

I think he has chose a class fit for his liking most shots are 40 and under perfect for hunting practice and thais what he wants as stated

I shoot open alot but when season comes I'll shoot with him for my hunting practice 


By the way I got a PINK ziptie waiting


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## THE GENERAL (Jan 10, 2008)

Why not put a set of fixed pin sights on take all but one off and beat there rears that way. That should shut them up once and for all. Well then if you are shooting FOB's that would give them something else to say.:wink: Keep beating them one way or another and if they dont like it all the better.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Refuze2falo said:


> I say watch your scores and improve off of that .Yeah there is always some one ya want to beat that's competition but I look at every score card I have and compare to past shoots or similar dificulty ranges and try to improve that number (no 5's or just a few 8's)just cause you got first doesn't mean you haven't shot better
> I've shot with him and his "numbers" have been going up but he still hasn't aced a coarse
> if there is a trophy or what not and you scored the best take it
> 
> ...


you bring the pink zip tie and i'll put it on:wink: thats ironic cause once season gets closer i plan on switching to open so i can adjust as i do in hunting situations.
by the way you planning on shooting sat. at willow creek.i dont think theres a shoot around here sunday.

you still have that 4x lens kit for the hha? sounds like i've been doing the world an injustice by taking up space in the hunter class


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

OA3D said:


> Oh quit your whining...............
> you know who I am and how I shoot.
> I won a local shoot and was asked to change classes. I had heard of these comments towards my methods but never directly. It was all good until I starting winning more often. If tey put it in the rules then fine. There are not to many local clubs that actually has the rules posted or written. Anyway, if you lock your sight down with no reference points you are shooting a fixed pin sight.


sorry andy.......if i was in your shoes and they asked me to bump into the next class i would be a little more than pissed.if its that big of an advantage over fingers.why isnt everyone in the fingers class doin it
by the way when you gonna come back down this way and shoot? its too bad you all didnt get a team in at SVA we could have taken your money too:wink:


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## tzoulek (Feb 3, 2008)

Take it as a compliment that you were asked to move up. That just shows that you are shooting well. If your open class is only 3-4 yards back you should only improve your scores if you can put your tape back on and use your sight to its full potential. It would also keep the 3d shoot as better hunting practice due to you using the bow set up the same as it would be for hunting. Shoot whatever class makes you happy and keeps the shoots fun. But I would take the bump up in class as a compliment to the fact that you are one of the best at the shoot.


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## MrPibb (Apr 10, 2004)

If you are that good, you shouldn't be afraid to step back.


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## MrPibb (Apr 10, 2004)

Just as a side note, I was in your same situation a couple of years ago and my previous statement was not meant as a jab. If more guys like you moved up there would be more competition in the open class.


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## Doebuck (Jun 9, 2008)

Here is my two cents worth we shoot cause we love it. we compete to improve and see how we stack up against not our equals, but the people above us. We must move up and grow the sport to include other classes and other people or we become the pompus people we escape from. shut up and shoot when you shoot good move up. For the next person. when people win they see there fruits. we are always better then someone else and someone is always better then us. And most pros who keep winning don't shoot as much because most of them are teaching someone else. Have met right may of the "paid" factory guy's and none of them has never ever not helped me.
like i said just my 2 cents.

doebuck


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## Mr.BadExample (Jun 29, 2007)

mofarmboy said:


> yes i shoot for fun but ...the equipment i choose to use.
> if people are *****ing because of scores that someone put up get outside and practice thats what i did.


It is your equipment that puts you into the proper classification for shooting, not your ability. If you are shooting for fun, than who cares what class you shoot in?

If you don't like what the clubs have to say about their classification... than you can shoot at a sack, save your $10 for the next 600-700 shoots and buy your own 30 targets to shoot at. :zip:


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

i basically started this thread to get everyones opinion of my situation.it appears the majority of people think i should move up to the next class or not turn in a score card. i will move up but only when i'm satisfied that i'm shooting my current setup to the best of my ability and that hasnt happened yet. thanks for everyones input positive or negative. i've heard this happening to alot of people and i think thats why theres alot of strong opinions on it.
good shooting to all of ya!!!!!


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Mr.BadExample said:


> It is your equipment that puts you into the proper classification for shooting, not your ability. If you are shooting for fun, than who cares what class you shoot in?
> 
> If you don't like what the clubs have to say about their classification... than you can shoot at a sack, save your $10 for the next 600-700 shoots and buy your own 30 targets to shoot at. :zip:


there are no written rules about moving up to the next class. i dont shoot at sacks either they're only good for a few 1000 shots.

my equipment meets the rules for both classes so i CHOOSE to shoot in the class i enjoy the most.
nice avatar.....family guy kicks *ss


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## Glock17 (Dec 23, 2004)

I havent been to a money shoot / qualifier yet that would allow an HHA in Hunter class, the ability to adjust for yardage is the issue, not weather or not you use it. 

Jeez,how hard is it to just put a sword, extreme or spot hog on a go to work on the foam then theres no drama.....

FYI I shoot both open and hunter and enjoy both challenges and would be more than happy to shoot against you and your HHA in either class, as its not the best choice for either. (It is a nice hunting sight though)

Everybody has a better time at 3D when everybody plays by the rules.

Good luck as you get more into the 3D world, its a continuing education.


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## rocklock (Mar 13, 2007)

As long as your set-up is legal for the hunter class i would stay right there!


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Glock17 said:


> I havent been to a money shoot / qualifier yet that would allow an HHA in Hunter class, the ability to adjust for yardage is the issue, not weather or not you use it.
> 
> Jeez,how hard is it to just put a sword, extreme or spot hog on a go to work on the foam then theres no drama.....
> 
> ...


have you ever shot an up pin sight? after shooting the hha's for the last few years hunting i've gotten used to the up pin.i bought a cobra sure-loc back in jan to use for 3d but couldnt get used to the side pins.
the way i use it works for me and for me it is the best choice definitly not for everyone but thats the beauty of archery as long as you meet the rules shoot what you want.
you might not think the hha is the best choice for 3d but i definitly dont think your hoyts are the best choice for 3d or hunting........just my opinion...:wink:


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## Bronion30 (Jul 9, 2005)

Have you tried the Trophy Ridge sights?


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## Glock17 (Dec 23, 2004)

My SureLoc Supreme is an up pin adjustable sight, but much more precise than an HHA. (I was shooting HHA 10 years ago,they are good, but a SureLoc or TruBall they aint....) I shoot up pin, down pin, side pin or dots just fine, I am only looking at the head of the pin so it really does not matter to me. 

As far as my Hoyts not being the best....a whole lot of guys local, state and national win a whole alot of shoots with them indoors and outdoors. Me, I do fairly well with them too on the local, reigonal circut. Enjoy your bowtechs. 

I would encourage you to Qualify for and shoot the national ASA or IBO circut, it might just provide some perspective and humility, it did for me. 

If you go to the IBO World Championships look me up.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Bronion30 said:


> Have you tried the Trophy Ridge sights?


yeah i tried the 3 pin model.its easier for me to hold a little over or under than to try to gap pins.i know people who use them for 3d and lve them though.to me it seems like an up pin takes alot of your right to left misses out.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Glock17 said:


> My SureLoc Supreme is an up pin adjustable sight, but much more precise than an HHA. (I was shooting HHA 10 years ago,they are good, but a SureLoc or TruBall they aint....) I shoot up pin, down pin, side pin or dots just fine, I am only looking at the head of the pin so it really does not matter to me.
> 
> As far as my Hoyts not being the best....a whole lot of guys local, state and national win a whole alot of shoots with them indoors and outdoors. Me, I do fairly well with them too on the local, reigonal circut. Enjoy your bowtechs.
> 
> ...


i was just poking a little fun at your hoyts cause you poked fun at my hha. i know alot of guys who shoot hoyts i've shot the trykon vectrix xl and katera they're nice bows as are 90% of them out there.
as for the national level 3d to me is 90% practice for hunting season.if i had to chose between burning my extra cash to travel to out of state shoots or one big hunting trip a year i would definitly take the hunting trip.
good luck with your shootin.
you can bet i'll be enjoyin my bowtechs:wink:


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## Glock17 (Dec 23, 2004)

Good point on the one big hunting trip idea, I hunt just down the road (whitetail heaven here in PA)

The IBO worlds are going to be a family trip, lots of nice stuff in that area of NewYork state so the wife will have a good time too. 

I have been bowhunting since around 1984 and have killed a pile of stuff, but the 3D circut is addicting and I got the bug pretty bad the last year or two.

Peace


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Glock17 said:


> Good point on the one big hunting trip idea, I hunt just down the road (whitetail heaven here in PA)
> 
> The IBO worlds are going to be a family trip, lots of nice stuff in that area of NewYork state so the wife will have a good time too.
> 
> ...


i live in central missouri.we are mostly known for our turkeys but our whitetails are starting to show some improvement.i've been to colorado once huntin elk and am hooked. so for now 3d takes a back seat.
i dont think my wife would let me get away with a out of state 3d shoot as a family vacation.... you are a lucky man.
good luck to ya at worlds.


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## bow slayer (Apr 2, 2007)

DEFINATELY NOT! stay in your class. my father has the same setup as you and he gets the same thing a lot. but every judge says it's perfectly legal. just keep doing what your doing.

-------------------
SPONSERS
National Archery Supply
Bulldog Targets


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## RNT (Feb 28, 2007)

mofarmboy said:


> heres the deal i started shooting 3d last summer.mainly for practice come deer season. i shoot hha sliders on all my hunting bows.so to keep from being called a cheater i removed my sight tapes and shot them like a single pin sight.
> the group of guys i shoot with have been shooting for a few years and shoot very well.it doesnt take long to get to the top when you shoot with the best.since getting my new commander a couple months ago i've won a handful of local shoots a few by a pretty good margin.
> the problem is now that i'm winning people are complaining of the sight i use even though i dont adjust it i just hold over or under as needed.
> also two clubs asked me to move up to the open class which i have no desire to do.i shoot to practice for hunting season and i dont hunt with a 30in stab clicker and lens!!!
> ...


Put your sticker back on and shoot non competetive. I shoot the vital gear 08 proslide and that is what I do. No one can complain about anything.

Its amazing though...........we still have to know our yardage to set our yardage. The odds are the same as with fixed pins. I dont get it. Oh well they make the rules, I just follow them...........Good luck with whatever you decide to do!!!!!


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## bow-legged (Nov 26, 2002)

Dont move up until you shoot at least 25 over. Thats what Im waiting on.


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## Jess Snyder (Feb 17, 2008)

mofarmboy said:


> thanks....... i know my buddies always talked about this guy who pretty much dominated the local shoots for the last few years.i set it as my goal to beat him at least once this year.i got to shoot with that guy a few weeks ago and thanked him for pushing me to practice that much more. i've beatin him a couple times now and it was nice to see all the practice pay off.


Have you considered moving back 10 yds and shooting the men's release class? vs the bowhunter class?


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*Sights*

One day I had lost a teflon washer that went behind my stab and in a pinch replaced it with a spacer that was about 1/4 thick because it was all I had, it put my stab above the 12" limit. I was asked about it after the fact (after I had won). Was I outside of the 12" limit? Yes. Did I do it on purpose? No. Were they right to can me for it? YEP. Was that the edge I used to win that day? No. It didnt matter because my equipment was outside the rules for the class.

Do yourself a favor, spend 20 bucks, and buy yourself a cheap fixed pin sight.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

Jess Snyder said:


> Have you considered moving back 10 yds and shooting the men's release class? vs the bowhunter class?


around here they only have 2 mens stakes mens release and open.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

IBBW said:


> One day I had lost a teflon washer that went behind my stab and in a pinch replaced it with a spacer that was about 1/4 thick because it was all I had, it put my stab above the 12" limit. I was asked about it after the fact (after I had won). Was I outside of the 12" limit? Yes. Did I do it on purpose? No. Were they right to can me for it? YEP. Was that the edge I used to win that day? No. It didnt matter because my equipment was outside the rules for the class.
> 
> Do yourself a favor, spend 20 bucks, and buy yourself a cheap fixed pin sight.


my sight is legal for the class.after shooting a single up pin i cant go back to a fixed multi pin sight......i tried.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*?????*

my sight is legal for the class.after shooting a single up pin i cant go back to a fixed multi pin sight......i tried. 

WHAT? Your joking...........right? Never heard of that. Is this just happening at one club?

I shoot Mens open, 36" stab, slider sight and fingers.Do I win.......of course not!! But give it a try, you can probably best most of them with this setup. Small victories MoFarmboy, Small victories.:rock:


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

IBBW said:


> my sight is legal for the class.after shooting a single up pin i cant go back to a fixed multi pin sight......i tried.
> 
> WHAT? Your joking...........right? Never heard of that. Is this just happening at one club?
> 
> I shoot Mens open, 36" stab, slider sight and fingers.Do I win.......of course not!! But give it a try, you can probably best most of them with this setup. Small victories MoFarmboy, Small victories.:rock:


joking about what.the sight being legal? i lock it down at 30yds and have no sighttape or any refrence marks on the slider. i hunt with the hha also and prefer to practice with what i use to hunt.


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*???*

No, If I am understanding you, you are saying that after you shot one pin it put you in one division (class) and now they wont let you shoot a different division that uses multi pins or is it they wont let you shoot the one pin in the multi pin division?


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

At first I was sympathetic, now I am not. 

Was sympathetic:
- Shoot a 'movable sight' but not moving it. Fair enough.
Was going to recommend zip tying it to let people know it can't move.

Now why I am not sympathetic:

You say you are NOT shooting for score or winnings, so if that is TRUE you would have NO ISSUE moving up or shooting for 'fun'. In hunter, if you are shooting just to 'improve yourself' as you say then you can do that without submitting for money or trophy. 

You don't have to change your set-up, you just shoot the open class and MOVE your sight or not as your choice. Or shoot Hunter Class and don't submit your card.

INSTEAD, you want to stay in Hunter class so you can beat up on people and do it without having to buy an actual fix pin sight and swap them out. Getting your trophies and money along the way. Too bad. 





mofarmboy said:


> the heads of the clubs that asked me to move to open ....because i've won the last few shoots by a pretty big margin.....
> 
> plus its mid-season and i'm not going to change my whole set-up with 3 months to go.


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## BULLBLASTER (Sep 14, 2007)

why do people say move "up" to the open class, it is not any above the hunter class, there is just different rules for equipment i shoot open but have seen pins class people outshoot even the open shooters at shoots, i see the pins class as more competitive anyways, they usually have more people to shoot against. nothing wrong with using your sight as a stationary pin in the hunter class, if they give you too much grief look at the vital gear sights i know they make a single pin fixed sight.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

i figured this thread would be dead by now but since it isnt i'll update it.we had a shoot yesterday at the club that requested me to move to open.i did shoot open with one of my hunting bows.i didnt shoot my commander because i'm in the process of setting it up for open and havent got her done yet.
i enjoyed shooting open the extra yardage will no doubt help my estimation and make me a better overall shooter. 
i know alot of the people who shoot there and know the ones who were whining about me staying in that class. when they saw i was shooting open they all looked ashamed and in my minds they should.i was playing by the rules and beating them so instead of practicing they complain to the club officials till i get bumped.
thanks to all who responded to this thread with their opinions.it made take the dive into the deep end of 3d archery....i hope i dont drowned.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Sounds like a personal problem to me...:wink:


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

carlosii said:


> Sounds like a personal problem to me...:wink:


care to elaborate


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

You need to shoot the proper equipment for the class or not turn in your score card. If you were just shooting "for practice" I imagine you wouldn't be turning in your scorecard anyways.....

You need to move to open class. You don't need to use the lens or long stabilizer if you don't want.

But to continue to shoot in a hunter class with a movable sight whether you move it or not goes against the spirit of the rules. 

And like I said, if you were JUST doing it for hunting practice, you wouldn't turn in your scorecard.


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

carlosii said:


> If you're in it for fun, the answer is simple: Just don't turn in a score card. Otherwise I think you should mount another sight to shoot 3D. Just my .02 worth.


exactly


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

mofarmboy said:


> care to elaborate


Sure. Haven't seen anyone else having this problem here on AT. Not an issue that a national organization would probably need to deal with. It seems to have already been addressed.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

archerm3 said:


> exactly





archerm3 said:


> You need to shoot the proper equipment for the class or not turn in your score card. If you were just shooting "for practice" I imagine you wouldn't be turning in your scorecard anyways.....
> 
> You need to move to open class. You don't need to use the lens or long stabilizer if you don't want.
> 
> ...


one reason i turn my scorecard in is a couple 3d clubs joinjed together to make a league and at the end of the year you are regestired for prizes based on attendance.
as for my sight if someone think me shooting a slider with no yardage tape or refrence marks and having to hold over or under is some kind of advantage then they are an idiot imo.i shoot that sight because thats how i hunt.
like i said earlier i moved to open at the club that requested.however i do still plan on shootin this setup at a few other clubs once hunting season gets a little closer.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

carlosii said:


> Sure. Haven't seen anyone else having this problem here on AT. Not an issue that a national organization would probably need to deal with. It seems to have already been addressed.


if being asked to move up a class in my first year of 3d because i was shooting well is a PERSONAL problem then thats one i would like to have.

as for a national org. having to deal with this issue.i'm sure they would have the common sense to see that with no ref. marks or yardage tape i wouldnt be chaeting. pretty much common sense. 

common sense........which does seem to be a problem a few people have here on AT.


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## 3-D Junkie (Sep 13, 2005)

*Lets be honest*

It sounds to me that you only started this thread to blow your own horn. To be honest, theres nothing to blow your horn about. Your winning club shoots, not IBO worlds bro. 
What your doing is called sandbagging. If you really wanted to challenge yourself you would have been shooting open class long before anyone asked you to.
I believe that what you really want is to shoot a class that is easy for you to win, so you can pump yourself up. Try shooting a national event where you are peer grouped, and then tell us how you did.


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## mathewdbl_lung (Mar 17, 2008)

mofarmboy;as for a national org. having to deal with this issue.i'm sure they would have the common sense to see that with no ref. marks or yardage tape i wouldnt be chaeting. pretty much common sense.QUOTE said:


> Cheating or not, the national organization would have to stick to the RULES, thus you would be disqualified or move up in class.
> 
> They have to enforce the rules strictly because ther can be so many grey areas, regardless of your ententions.


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## rocket83 (Dec 9, 2007)

*my opinion*

in national comp id say there would be no questions asked they would bump you to open because of the sight


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

3-D Junkie said:


> It sounds to me that you only started this thread to blow your own horn. To be honest, theres nothing to blow your horn about. Your winning club shoots, not IBO worlds bro.
> What your doing is called sandbagging. If you really wanted to challenge yourself you would have been shooting open class long before anyone asked you to.
> I believe that what you really want is to shoot a class that is easy for you to win, so you can pump yourself up. Try shooting a national event where you are peer grouped, and then tell us how you did.


i started this thread to get peoples opinions on whether or not they thought it was fair that i was asked to move up a class after winning a few shoots.
it was not started to brag. in fact one of my reasons to stay in the hunter class was so that i could continue practicing with this equipment and maybe someday shoot well enough to attend and be competitive in major shoots.


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## mofarmboy (Aug 6, 2006)

mathewdbl_lung said:


> mofarmboy;as for a national org. having to deal with this issue.i'm sure they would have the common sense to see that with no ref. marks or yardage tape i wouldnt be chaeting. pretty much common sense.QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> > Cheating or not, the national organization would have to stick to the RULES, thus you would be disqualified or move up in class.
> ...


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## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

As seriously as you are taking this issue, and as serious as you are about the year end door prizes, and as serious as you are about


> maybe someday shoot well enough to attend and be competitive in major shoots


then it shouldn't be too hard to find (and use that prize money) a $30 fixed pin sight to use at the tournaments if you want to stay in hunter class. A pin is a pin. 

And if you are worried about doing ALL of your shooting with only one specific set of equipment, why do you have three bows....

Absolutely it's fair to ask you to meet the rules after winning a few. Yardage tape or not you can use imperfections in the sight's bar to adjust it when people aren't looking. You can also squeak movement out of a zip tie. Doesn't matter really, rules are rules. It is entirely too fishy to argue something so outlandish "I don't wanna change my sight so I will go out of my way to disorganize it's setup to shoot in a class that questions it's legality" so that everyone has to go on trust.

I want to enter my twin turbo 1500hp racecar in a nascar race, but I promise not to use the turbo's but I don't want to take them off.....

You got over $1500 of equipment listed, go buy a fixed pin sight for hunter class for 3D season, I have no sympathy and I applaud your clubs for holding you to the rules.


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