# McKenzie vs Rinehart



## archerm3 (Jan 4, 2007)

One's expensive and won't budge on prices. Not a big fan of them. The other one is what you'll face in the big tourneys, so why not practice with them.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

3d or just the practice targets?


i have a shtblocker and like it alot. seemeed to hold up pretty good for ho wmuch i shoot at it a day with both feild points and broadheads. 

both cost alot so ya.

3d target wise idk i see mackenzie targets and rinehart at alot of places and cant tell any difference when i shoot them or when i pull the arrow out. heard rineharts last longer though.


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## RNT (Feb 28, 2007)

I truely like the rineharts overall. But as far as designs Mckensie has a few that I prefer to shoot but mostly for the looks. Arrows pull out of rineharts so much smoother.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

I'll never buy a McKenzie as long as Rineharts are made. 

They may cost more initially but last MUCH longer so in the long run there is a cost savings plus it's much easier to pull arrows.


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## tutone500 (Feb 19, 2009)

YRhinefield said:


> I'll never buy a McKenzie as long as Rineharts are made.
> 
> They may cost more initially but last MUCH longer so in the long run there is a cost savings plus it's much easier to pull arrows.


+1 Mckenzie 3d targets are a pain to pull arrows, the last shoot i went had the standing black bear, after shooting at it once I almost wanted to pass it on the second round.


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## BigBucks125 (Jun 22, 2006)

IMO Mckenzie targets are way better to shoot at.


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## Hunter2678 (Jan 16, 2008)

I prefer Rineharts, easier to pull arrows from and they dont become fossilized after 1 season outdoors like the Mckenzies seem to do. I just got the Rinehart 18 -1 a few months ago and its held up really well after alot of shooting.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

tutone500 said:


> +1 Mckenzie 3d targets are a pain to pull arrows, the last shoot i went had the standing black bear, after shooting at it once I almost wanted to pass it on the second round.


I thought for a moment there you shot my Club last month!

I put out a McK Standing Black Bear that hadn't been used in a couple years, but had perfect back vitals.
When I shot it two others had to hold it while I heaved and hoed with a good arrow puller and both hands to get my arrow out.

I ran back to the barn and got a Rinehart Dall Sheep and replaced it. I was 4 up until that target, but after the run and excitement, my shooting went to hell. At least nobody complained about that shot after that.


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## Hunter2678 (Jan 16, 2008)

Sniper1 said:


> I thought for a moment there you shot my Club last month!
> 
> I put out a McK Standing Black Bear that hadn't been used in a couple years, but had perfect back vitals.
> When I shot it two others had to hold it while I heaved and hoed with a good arrow puller and both hands to get my arrow out.
> ...


Too many similar experiences with them like this sniper...never again.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

Hunter2678 said:


> Too many similar experiences with them like this sniper...never again.


McK's pull much easier these days, but wear out even faster than they used to.

But I got a soft spot for the McK Sneak Deer, Bedded Buck, Billy, and Bighorn. They do look great in the woods.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

IMHO if Rinehart hadn't pulled out of the IBO, ASA, tournament scene McKenzie would have been out of business by now except for what they could sell through the box stores.


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## sagitarius (Sep 11, 2007)

I do like the look of a few of the McKenzie's. But, the quality of the foam that Rinehart uses is SO MUCH better. Easier to pull arrows from and more durable. I like the variety of targets that Rinehart offers too.


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

Sniper1 said:


> I thought for a moment there you shot my Club last month!
> 
> I put out a McK Standing Black Bear that hadn't been used in a couple years, but had perfect back vitals.
> When I shot it two others had to hold it while I heaved and hoed with a good arrow puller and both hands to get my arrow out.
> ...


They make this stuff called arrow lube that works GREAT. I have never had to heave and huff and puff to remove an arrow from a mckenzie. I have more trouble pulling from my 18-1 rhinehart than anything else. Oh yeah and a little arrow lube solves it too!


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

I think Rineharts biggest problem is that thier targets last so long. Once you buy them, your Club only replaces the vital every 2-4 years, and they are like new.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

CowboyJunkie said:


> They make this stuff called arrow lube that works GREAT. I have never had to heave and huff and puff to remove an arrow from a mckenzie. I have more trouble pulling from my 18-1 rhinehart than anything else. Oh yeah and a little arrow lube solves it too!


I used Woody's, and it still stuck fast. I don't know where you been shooting, but just about every other 3D shooter for the last 18 years has had the same problem as I did many, many times with McK's. Never happens with a Rinehart animal, even in a freezing winter shoot.


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## krud (Jun 2, 2009)

Use soap


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

Sniper1 said:


> I used Woody's, and it still stuck fast. I don't know where you been shooting, but just about every other 3D shooter for the last 18 years has had the same problem as I did many, many times with McK's. Never happens with a Rinehart animal, even in a freezing winter shoot.


Shoot all ASA pro ams, my club uses mckenzies, other clubs in the area all use mckenzies, only one guy that runs a range here has rhineharts and they last forever because noone around here will go shoot them. i dont dislike rhineharts i just prefer the mckenzies and have not experienced the "arrow pulling" issue you stated. been shooting them for a few years with none of these issues.


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## sagitarius (Sep 11, 2007)

CowboyJunkie said:


> They make this stuff called arrow lube that works GREAT.


Why would you prefer targets that make it necessary to use arrow lube??

I shot a tournament 2 weeks ago at a club that had all new Rineharts and I did not have to lube my arrow once. It is just not the same with McKenzie's.


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## hunt4food#2 (Nov 18, 2006)

Mckenzie targets are the best. Dont like rhinehart


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

sagitarius said:


> Why would you prefer targets that make it necessary to use arrow lube??
> 
> I shot a tournament 2 weeks ago at a club that had all new Rineharts and I did not have to lube my arrow once. It is just not the same with McKenzie's.


If your going to quote me quote the whole post. I said I have more trouble pulling from my 18-1 rhinehart than anything else with or without arrow lube. Arrow lube makes it easier to pull from both targets but I have to use an arrow puller on the rhinehart but not on the mckenzie when i DONT use the arrow lube.


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## bacon27 (Jul 11, 2008)

At home the best thing you can do is buy a spyder web target they are AMAZING! 

On a course I'll take Rinehart any day of the week and twice on Sunday. All the Mckenzies I have shot are a PAIN in the butt to retrieve your arrow from. They do fossilize rather quickly as well.


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## NOSX3DER (Jun 15, 2008)

*Targets*

Rhineharts are nice if you want a few targets at your house to practice and easy pull. The rings are smaller and not at defined as a McKenzie.

Like someone mentioned prior all the IBO and ASA's are using the McKenzie's for the big shows!!

So, I guess I would say the McKenzie's if you are getting ready to shoot some big tourney's. If not, then I would go with Rhinehart, great pulling targets and last for a long time.


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## sagitarius (Sep 11, 2007)

CowboyJunkie said:


> If your going to quote me quote the whole post. I said I have more trouble pulling from my 18-1 rhinehart than anything else with or without arrow lube. Arrow lube makes it easier to pull from both targets but I have to use an arrow puller on the rhinehart but not on the mckenzie when i DONT use the arrow lube.


Ok, sorry.

I have an 18-1 as well and don't have any problem pulling my arrows from it at all. Even when shooting in my basement at about 8 yards, and I am shooting into it at around 340fps. 

I will say that the longer you leave the arrows in a rinehart, the harder they are to pull out. The foam starts to stick to the arrows if you leave them in there.


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## crybabyshftshtr (May 1, 2007)

I would think that alot of it depends on the speed your bow is shooting (combined with velocity), the distances that your are shooting and the type of arrow that you are shooting. I shoot GoldTip X-Cutters and do not have any problem pulling from either type of target. The smaller diameter arrows do seem to bury up in both types and are somewhat harder to pull than the bigger diameter arrows...JMO though. BTW, that is where I got the nickname "cry baby shaft shooter or 'crybabyshftshtr'" (a budy of mine that shoots small diameter arrows tagged me with the name)....lol


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## BigBucks125 (Jun 22, 2006)

NOSX3DER said:


> Rhineharts are nice if you want a few targets at your house to practice and easy pull. The rings are smaller and not at defined as a McKenzie.
> 
> Like someone mentioned prior all the IBO and ASA's are using the McKenzie's for the big shows!!
> 
> So, I guess I would say the McKenzie's if you are getting ready to shoot some big tourney's. If not, then I would go with Rhinehart, great pulling targets and last for a long time.


exactly, when getting ready to go a IBO shoot, where all targets are Mckenzies...I'd much rather practice on courses that have Mckenzies.


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## Mark Hedges (Dec 18, 2008)

Around here the birds (woodpeckers I guess) seem to like to hollow out mckenzie targets. Haven't seen them attack a rinehart.

Mark


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## RIDGE_RUNNER91 (Feb 21, 2005)

I really like the foam and pulling qualities of the rineharts but hate the fact that they look like cartoons and they aren't used in nationals.

Mckenzies definitely don't last as long and in general they don't pull as nice, but they look WAY better. The biggest reason that I like to shoot them more is because that is what is shot at the nationals. 

I don't hate either one I just like to practice on the same targets that I will be shooting at the big shoots. If that changes to rinehart in the future that is fine with me. Till then its Mck's for me. :darkbeer:


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## COUESRIDER (Jun 16, 2009)

Howdy,
Out here in the wild west where just about everyone is shooting around 300 ftps or better and the lizards get heat stroke. I like them Rinehart's. They just seem to hold up better. Funny looking alright.


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## KIT-HAN-NE Flinger (Jan 5, 2005)

*Lighten up*

I only like Mckenzies they are the best, hate shooting cartoons, I am an aspiring pro and only shoot the Mckenzies. If your club doesn't have them, it sucks and you will never have any shooters ever, stupid dumb targets ! (my tongue is in my cheek)

I feel that Rineharts rock ! And they are the best target if you want your moneys worth and your clubs moneys worth. I will never be a pro I just love to shoot and hands down Love Rinehart and even R & W. Why bother with lube if you don't have to and if so use Scorpion Venom  
I do really like the looks of the Safari Mckenzies though. But every other one does suck.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

I have anaged to successfully influence my Club* NOT* to buy any of the silly Rineharts, like a Dino, Frog, Cinnamon Bear, Honey Bear, or other goofy ones.
Their Walking Black Bear, Moose, Elk, Caribou, and Deer are great in the woods. The Bedded Dall Sheep is beautiful.
And they last so well and so long. Just unbelievable.

I like the look of Mck Billy's, Bighorns, bedded Bucks, and Sneak Deer. Their Warthog and Russian Boar (the Brown one) are very cool too.

For us, it is one McK for 5 Rineharts.


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## huntoct1 (Jun 11, 2008)

I have always been a Mk fan mainly due to most clubs around us have them
our club have a mixed bag we just pruchased 6 new mk and the quality is real bad the legs on most are half hollow any one else seeing this on the new ones?


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## shootstraight (Apr 28, 2005)

I have my own range with a blend of both targets, have 4 or 5 R&W's as well, here's my take.

If you can only afford a couple of targets get R&W's and plenty of Woody's, they are tough to pull from and can have hard spots at times. They last the longest though and are a very good value, you can buy 3 for the price of one Rinehart. 

If you shoot pro/ams shoot the Mck., they are the best practice however I use some of my Rineharts that are similar size for practice. The newer XT Mck. with the plug are pretty close to the Rinehart in foam density, I'm having good luck with mine so far. Mckenzies paint is pretty poor and can peel pretty quick many of the plugs will not keep paint on them either. The legs are not as rigid as in the past and I wonder how they will hold up over time. Ants and bugs seem to love the foam in these things as well

Rineharts pull the best but when they're cold they are tough as well with out Woody's, they are the most durable overall. You won't see broken ears and other appendages etc. 


Summary: I don't care which one's I shoot, I just like to shoot at foam.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

huntoct1 said:


> I have always been a Mk fan mainly due to most clubs around us have them
> our club have a mixed bag we just pruchased 6 new mk and the quality is real bad the legs on most are half hollow any one else seeing this on the new ones?


We got a McK Bedded Buck Mid that had the Spraylat finish start to peel like a bad sunburn after the second shoot. Just bubbled up, even on the side that didn't have a single shot in it.

The two Med HD Deer we got are fine, and so is the Russian (brown) Boar.

I don't know what the targets coming out of the new factory are like yet. That fire last year cleaned them out. It will be interesting to see what the new production gets us.


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## hitman846 (Jan 25, 2003)

From a 3D course set-up guy's point of view......Our club has both Rineharts and Mckenzie targets and without a doubt the Rineharts last alot longer but are 2-3x heavier than the Mckenzie targets. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal to a shooter but to a set-up guy carrying a 40 lb Mckenzie up a hill is a heck of alot eaiser than a 80 lb Rinehart Deer. We shoot 20 targets a week for league shooting and I move each one every week...add in 4 or 5 3D tourneys a year and it adds up, just ask my back.....


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

hitman846 said:


> From a 3D course set-up guy's point of view......Our club has both Rineharts and Mckenzie targets and without a doubt the Rineharts last alot longer but are 2-3x heavier than the Mckenzie targets. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal to a shooter but to a set-up guy carrying a 40 lb Mckenzie up a hill is a heck of alot eaiser than a 80 lb Rinehart Deer. We shoot 20 targets a week for league shooting and I move each one every week...add in 4 or 5 3D tourneys a year and it adds up, just ask my back.....


Sure the Rinehart Standing Griz and Walking Black Bear are pretty heavy. No doubt. The are also much more durable and thicker than comparable McKs. Of course, once a McK dries out they do get very light. They are like carrying styrofoam.
I put Rinehart Large deer on my shoulder and carry them all the time. No big deal, and I'm no Jesse Ventura.
We set up 15 shoots a year. 30 targets each. I throw a McK Lion, Billy, Bighorn, or almost any Rinehart up and go for a walk. Even carried the Bedded Elk on my shoulder, and both Rineharts largest bears.. 
Weight is not the issue here, unless you are somehow enfeebled.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

We bought our first Rinehart in September of 2000. We still have it and it's still going strong. Since 2000 we bought 86 more, 87 total purchases. We sold a skunk we thought done for. I repaired it and Officers sold it before they realized it was okay. Rinehart's original Baboon had a solid back point zone and front slid in replacement center. The back point zone got shot out. I repaired it, sold it and we bought the full replacement center Baboon. Our original Raccoon, 2002, got shot up pretty bad and we sold it September of 2008 - Small target and 6 years of use. The owner, a club member, is still shooting it.
Right now we have 84 Rineharts. Last cost figures show less than 3 cents per shot usage per mixed targets on a 40 target course. Okay, more usage on a small target and less usage on a large target.

McKenzie is Delta owned so.... The Delta Buffalo and Grizzly and the McKenzie Caribou and Elk; Great looking targets. Not as expensive as Rinehart's larger targets. Can last a long time if kept at longer distances, 45 and more yards. The McKenzie African Lion is probably a best buy item, but if the target is kept at 40 and more yards. The down side wouldn't be so bad if clubs set aside money to replace the centers, if the rest of the main body of the target is worth replacing the center.
Of all deer size and smaller Delta and McKenzie targets, our club never had one survive long enough to justify replacing the center (expensive compared to Rinehart's centers. Our Delta Red Fox and Coyote got shot to pieces in a matter of 3 or 4 shoots. Target handlers are rough on McKenzie targets. Broken joints, ears, and antlers were the norm, but easily repaired. Still, the main bodies would begin to look shabby, paint fading and peeling. What I have seen, color of replacement centers never seems to match the rest of target.
Like one reply, we had McKenzies that had hollow legs.
Of another deformity, some of our McKenzies just plain wouldn't fit together properly, misalignment - I would example their bedded buck. Nice as it is the back portion never aligns the point zone section.
Before costly replacements I would rank arrow pulling McKenzies biggest down fall, doubly especially so in the early cold spring. Two shooters holding the target and two shooters pulling one arrow is dreadful and then so is having arrows broken off in the target.

Regardless of make of target clubs have to set targets at distances to best make their targets last the best and still be reasonable - not national circuit stuff. 3D events are competition, not practice for hunting, though some use 3D to tune up for hunting.

Here is a list of distances I made up for our targets and would welcome comments or ideas. I don't mind range captains stretching the distances, but frown on anything under minimum. I don't usually say anything unless too many targets are set too close. 
Skunk, stegosaurus, bobcat, raccoon, small standing grizzly, and walking turkey -- 15 minimum thru 25 yards.
Wolverine, coyote, red fox, baboon and strutting turkey -- 20 yards minimum thru 30 yards.
Small deer, alligator, any pig, cobras, Catalina goat and honey bear -- 25 yards minimum thru 30 yards.
Any sheep, pronghorn, wolves, cougars, cinnamon and black bear -- could go same as above, but out also out to 40 yards.
Large dinos, larger deer, and standing grizzly -- 30 thru 40 yards.
Elk and Caribou -- minimum 40 yards and out to 50 yards


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

Sonny, your selection of targets sucks. 

You need the Rinehart Moose.


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## Oregonbwhunter (Aug 25, 2006)

CowboyJunkie said:


> If your going to quote me quote the whole post. I said I have more trouble pulling from my 18-1 rhinehart than anything else with or without arrow lube. Arrow lube makes it easier to pull from both targets but I have to use an arrow puller on the rhinehart but not on the mckenzie when i DONT use the arrow lube.


My question is what arrows are you shooting that you need any kind of lube to remove from the Rinehart? I have been shooting carbons, aluminums, A/C and FMJ at my 18-1 for over 2 years now and from day 1 have never used ank kind of lube and my eight year old daughter pulls my arrows for me. I am also shooting it with 100# GTO and a 505 grain arrow at 328fps.

OBH


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

Ttt


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## Leon Garfield (Feb 2, 2008)

*McKenzie*

for me. I went to a R100 recently. There targets are like shooting bullseye's all day. Every target had a very distinct scoring section to shoot at. I like the McKenzie for its realism. Just my opinion


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## PaP&Ybowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

I think rinehart makes a great durable target. I love the bedded elk and caribou. That being said, I always try to shoot at clubs that have mckenzie targets. I want to shoot the same targets, that I will see at the big shoots. 
I really like the mckenzie XT series targets. granted the plugs wear out faster than the Rineharts, but they are also cheaper to replace. Also you can replace the mid section along with the plug. I also prefer the definition on a mckenzie target, they are much easier to aim on.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

How much is a plug for a XT Deer, and at what rate?


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## PaP&Ybowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

Sniper1 said:


> How much is a plug for a XT Deer, and at what rate?


The new Lancaster Archery catalogue had the medium deer for $44.99 the large deer plug goes for 64.99. Looks like most of the targets average around $50. I'm sure you could get a better rate for a club.


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

*Bottom Line*

If you are shooting any of the IBO or ASA you probably should be practicing on McK's Sure Maybe a Rinehart will last longer but will your club draw in shooters in the heat of the summer to shoot strange targets that they are not going to see on the National level? I don't know location could make a difference. 
JMO but I like judgeing yardage on targets that I am going to see at the Nationals shoots. 
I guess what I am trying to say is if the club sets Rineharts I am going to try and find a club that sets McK's to shoot. But if the 3D season is over I will shoot anything.
JMO


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

Most of our local clubs are having a hell of a time paying for McK's. Seems the ones most successful are shifting to Rineharts, and turnouts aren't hurting. We actually are doing way better. So are they.
Most of our Clubs buy a few McK Mids if you have a presentable head and hind, but few Club's are buying any new whole animals.
A Rinehart Deer Vital costs $75 at Club, for either the Big 10/30 or the Alert Deer.
A Alert Deer Vital lasted us 2400 shots, and will be swapped out after the next shoot (100+ shooters). It is still completely scorable around all rings, but if you hit the 12 in the right place a arrow will push through the back. I could fix that with some Contact Cement and keep it in, but we have a couple spare vitals, and that deer has earned it.
A Club has to have money to burn to keep 30 good McK's out. It better have other sources of income besides Archery to rely on, like a Rifle or Pistol range, Skeet or Trap. They are just not worth it financially, and the quality has deteriorated. They never used to ship animals with voids and defects like I see now. We got burned with one that peeled like a sunburn as soon as we took it out of the box. We noticed after a month (second shoot) and it did it on the side without a single hit. I contacted McK, and they asked for pictures. I sent a bunch, and was very polite about it. As soon as I sent the pictures I never got a response to my queries again. just silence. They sure pissed of this dissatisfied customer.
A few Clubs bought some vitals for their old heads and tails that are dried out and damaged from years of use. They don't look good, the colors don't even come close, and the heads have no ears anymore. That's what the Clubs have, and they don't want to invest in any new whole targets if they can help it.

We will kep a few Mck's out on the course. About 1 in 6, at least for a while yet. We will buy a mid or two for Mck's. But as for full animals? Rineharts only unless something major happens.


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## mag41vance (Mar 13, 2008)

The scoring Rings seem to be placed differently to me.
On the Rineharts, it seems the rings on the pigs are a bit forward of what the mckenzies, and on the deer the rineharts seem to be a bit back from where mckenzie puts theirs. After shooting 2 state events that mckenzie was used, I shot a local shoot and was constantly glassing the Rinehart targets to verify that I was shooting where I was thinking. Rings on Turkey's and Bears are closer to common.


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## cabotvt (Jul 23, 2007)

I use to think Rine's were more durable however, I do not see as many shot through 12 rings on the Mck's as I did on the Rine's on day 2 at the ASA's. The Rine's do hold up better if you leave them out but I use to have all kinds of shot through targets on the ASA course with Rine's. I'm not seeing that as much with the McK's. Now the Leopard's new foam that needs to go the paint wont even stick to it and it sticks to your shaft
My 2cents


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

cabotvt said:


> I use to think Rine's were more durable however, I do not see as many shot through 12 rings on the Mck's as I did on the Rine's on day 2 at the ASA's. The Rine's do hold up better if you leave them out but I use to have all kinds of shot through targets on the ASA course with Rine's. I'm not seeing that as much with the McK's. Now the Leopard's new foam that needs to go the paint wont even stick to it and it sticks to your shaft
> My 2cents


You mean the McK Leopard? The paint won't stick to the foam on that either, or is it that rubbery SprayLat that's coming off?
The White paint they are using doesn't seem to want to stay on that new surface they are using. i guess all of them will have that problem. The paint jobs on McK's was always spectacular, but if it got rubbed off, the target dried out fast. I doubt the new foam will do that.
Mck made several changes over the last decade. They took out the HD Cores, because your arrow would get in their and you couldn't get it out. A coule years later they put a different one back in. They changed the foam and process a couple times. On one version The targets didn't get shot out. They just got big cracks and voids. 
Delta bought the McK Line a few years ago, and are going through changes too. Thhey better change some more, and do something. I do not like the current manifestation at all.


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## PaP&Ybowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

Sniper, sounds like you got a little grudge against mckenzie. I will agree with you there is nothing to argue with about the durability and quality of Rinehart targets. I too am from southeastern Pa.. We are fortunate to have lots of options as far as clubs to shoot at each weekend, within an hours drive. The bulk of your shooters are going to be hunters looking for practice. Rineharts are a great target for that. plus most of those shooters just want a nice target thats easy to pull your arrows from. 
I think you know in the eastern Pa their is a large group of hardcore target archers, pretty much the guys who shoot IBO, ASA, Money shoots, and team shoots. I along with most of these guys have no problems driving a couple of hours each weekend to drive to a club that is having a quality shoot. When I look for a place to shoot each weekend I look for two things: 1st is a challenging course, 2nd would be targets. I want quality targets and I prefer them to be mckenzies.
I shot your Qualifier this past weekend it was an awesome shoot, your target were great and it was challenging. I know, I wasn't real happy with the score I shot. I see you have a shoot this sunday, but so does Delaware Valley fish and game in Point Pleasant. I'm going to the IBO shoot in Ohio next weekend. I will probably shoot at Delaware valley because they have a large amount of mckenzie targets. They might not have a shoot as challenging as yours, but I can always walk back from the stakes.
I personally think mckenzie targets are improving. I'm one of the directors at Cloverleaf Archery Club. We just bought 15 mckenzie target. I'm very pleased with them so far. Granted, I bought them at and IBO auction, and got a great deal on them. I think the XT target is going to be a great option for clubs. As I said earlier you can replace the plug and mid section. You can even buy mid sections with the new plugs to replace the mids on your old style targets.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

I don't have a Grudge with McKenzie Delta. I am disappointed with them selling a target that peels off and not even responding when I sent the pictures requested (several times). I just don't owe them anything. That is established. It's not even really "McKenzie" anymore anyway. Just the name and the molds.
We will keep out some McK's. 6 were out for the IBO Qualifier, and that Black Delta Strut Turkey. It could have been a 3 more.
I will be coming up to soot your new XT's. I have been busy for years cleaning up the 3D at Limerick. Probably a thousand hours over a few years now. It shows on the course. 
I hope McK gets the right mix for it's foam. You gotta admit they have had problems over the years. We had deer get pushed right out the back in only a couple hundred shooters a few years ago, when McK took out the HD Core.
But you never saw a defective target out of the mold get sold before, and the paintjobs used to be fantastic.
McK/Delta needs to get it's act together to convince us to buy morse than a few hundred $ in targets each year.

And that Rinehart Alert Deer on #21. It has some foam being pushed out the backside of the vital after this shoot. I talked to a former Field Captain just this evening about when exactly it was purchased. 2800+ shots. It was purchased early in 05, and got shot every shoot since. It finally will get a new vital, for $75.

If ASA/IBO goes to Rineharts we wouldn't be having this conversation.


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## PaP&Ybowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

*sniper*

Hey sniper you are right if ASA and IBO would go Rineharts we wouldn't be talking about this. I changed my mind I might come back and give your course another try this weekend. By the way I'm thinking about putting 20 targets out on Sat morning if I can get enough interest. The main reason I'm putting them out is to give myself a warmup for Nelsonville OH. I posted a thread in the NE shoot section.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

PaP&Ybowhunter said:


> Hey sniper you are right if ASA and IBO would go Rineharts we wouldn't be talking about this. I changed my mind I might come back and give your course another try this weekend. By the way I'm thinking about putting 20 targets out on Sat morning if I can get enough interest. The main reason I'm putting them out is to give myself a warmup for Nelsonville OH. I posted a thread in the NE shoot section.


I saw that. I gotta get things ready for Sunday myself.
Hopefully we will get a good turnout, and the prep work must be done.

Maybe the second time around will be better for you.

Did those McK's you bought have Universal Vitals, or IBO?

Personally, I wish our two Clubs had a cooperative relationship. We don't compete for members or shooters, but are reasonably close together.


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## PaP&Ybowhunter (Feb 16, 2005)

*sniper*

The targets all have universal vitals. The target auctions at the big shoots is the way to go. Even if you get targets that are completely shot out. Its still a whole lot cheaper to buy them plus a mid section.


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## Sniper1 (Jun 27, 2007)

After purchasing about 30 Rineharts in 06 and 07, we only bought one Rinehart deer last year, and Caribou this year, and some vitals. the little Rineharts lasted about a thousand shots. Some more. Most of the Mediums are still waiting their turn to need one.
We bought one McK Med HD Deer last year, and 3 mids.
This year I am hoping for a Rinehart 30 point, another Walking Black Bear, a few more Rinehart Vitals (just in case), and one McK large HD deer mid at the end of the year.
We just don't need any new animals, and with a new vital a Rinehart is as good as new.
Since going mostly to Rineharts our replacement costs have dropped about to half, and a big piece of that is we are still changing over as the McK's wear out.
We could actually spend nothing at the end of the year, and still put out targets as good as now, or better, next year, because we got about 10 vitals in the barn.


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