# Paper tune and Bare shaft tuning results



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

Red arrow points to final shot at 7 yards.. Is it good enough?

Yellow jacket pics show results of bare shaft vs fletched arrows at 20 yards.. 

I think the paper tune shot looks good. If that's the case do I want to adjust anything, or should I put my broadheads on and adjust for FP/BH POI?

Thanks


----------



## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

Slightly confused. Bare shaft still hitting a bit off in the first two shots. Is the last on after adjustments were made? As far as the paper test goes what do the tears look like at 7-8 feet? At 21' the fletching has already stabilized the arrow. Walk back tune may help if you have the room. Same spot, same pin from 20-40 yards all arrows should be in a vert line. If not adjust rest accordingly.


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

*Didn't check*

at 7 feet. I have plenty of room (5 acres) to walk back tune, but my target isn't tall enough to catch them at 20 and 40 yards! Since my windage is the same on all three pins, could I do walk back using separate pins? 




454casull said:


> Bare shaft still hitting a bit off. As far as the paper test goes what do the tears look like at 7-8 feet? At 21' the fletching has already stabilized the arrow. Walk back tune may help if you have the room. Same spot, same pin from 20-40 yards all arrows should be in a vert line. If not adjust rest accordingly.


----------



## ABTABB (Apr 4, 2007)

It looks like the 2 arrows on the far right are the Bare shafts? If So You still have a left tear, Did You shoot through paper at 7yds or 7ft? At 7 yards the fletching has probably corrected it, even a pretty bad tear will look good at 7yds. Try shooting through the paper at 7-10ft and You will probably still see a left tear...

At 20 yards You should have no problem getting bare shafts to impact the target straight, and right with Your fletched arrows.


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

*If*

I get a chance I'll shoot from 10 feet tomorow.
At work now, and supposed to rain / storm tomorrow.


----------



## Hosscoller (Feb 10, 2009)

Did you keep adjusting the nocks on the bare shafts? I go through a dozen bare shafts and shoot 3 at a time from 10 yards, I adjust the nocks to bring them close together then move on to the next set of 3 untill I have then grouping close. I run the nock clockwise a quarter turn each time, then finer as they come into the group. That has always worked well for me, I will also hang a line and weight and walk back with them to see how well they stay in line. I still have to build myself a paper rack for tuning, as soon as I find my round-to-it I'm gonna get right on it.:whip2:


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

*Didn't get to it today*

Well, I tried. Too much wind, tore my paper in half.
I'll try to adjust the nock after checking at 10 feet, then when I get it as close as I can I'll do walk back tune.
I'll take a pic of my "paper rack" next time I shoot so you can see it. It consists of two metal fence posts and a box with the top and bottom cut out!! All I can say is "It works!"




Hosscoller said:


> Did you keep adjusting the nocks on the bare shafts? I go through a dozen bare shafts and shoot 3 at a time from 10 yards, I adjust the nocks to bring them close together then move on to the next set of 3 untill I have then grouping close. I run the nock clockwise a quarter turn each time, then finer as they come into the group. That has always worked well for me, I will also hang a line and weight and walk back with them to see how well they stay in line. I still have to build myself a paper rack for tuning, as soon as I find my round-to-it I'm gonna get right on it.:whip2:


----------



## bowhuntr311 (May 20, 2009)

Hosscoller said:


> Did you keep adjusting the nocks on the bare shafts? I go through a dozen bare shafts and shoot 3 at a time from 10 yards, I adjust the nocks to bring them close together then move on to the next set of 3 untill I have then grouping close. I run the nock clockwise a quarter turn each time, then finer as they come into the group.


Forgive the novice question. Do you do this to get them to group well then fletch them?


----------



## Bonz (Jan 15, 2006)

Use wax paper from the grocery store to paper tune with. It will show even the slightest tear or bullet hole very well. A lot better than any other paper out there.


----------



## Hosscoller (Feb 10, 2009)

bowhuntr311 said:


> Forgive the novice question. Do you do this to get them to group well then fletch them?



Yes, my nocks have an index tab on one side, that index tab is always on my thumb when I nock an arrow, I use a QAD rest and the nock fletch is up. Once I get them to group together, making good form shots I take em home and fletch em. Once I do that I take them back out and shoot them again, and I have them numbered to find out which ones are the most consistant. God knows I need all the help I can get. I may be too much of an A type personality but all the tweeking keeps me out of trouble, but not with the wife. :set1_punch:


----------



## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

It’s tough to bare shaft tune using the Yellow Jacket bag target. 
Because of inconsistencies in the filler material, the shafts will not always appear to enter the same direction and you can be led to make adjustments that are not required.

One of the foam targets work much better for bare shaft testing.
The other tip is to have the target on a level where your bow arm is parallel with the ground.

Wax paper is good. I use butcher paper. It’s lightly waxed and cheap for a large roll (lasts for years).


----------



## turkeyhunter60 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Paper tuning*

THE BEST PAPER I FOUND FOR PAPER TUNING IS THE PAPER THEY HAVE IN THE DOCTORS OFFICE.THERE ON THE EXAM TABLE,THEY ROLL OUT.YOU CAN BUY IT AT A MEDICAL SUPPLY PLACE IN A BIG ROLL,IT'S THE BEST I EVER FOUND.:darkbeer:


----------



## Cajun83 (Sep 30, 2009)

konrad said:


> It’s tough to bare shaft tune using the Yellow Jacket bag target.
> Because of inconsistencies in the filler material, the shafts will not always appear to enter the same direction and you can be led to make adjustments that are not required.
> 
> One of the foam targets work much better for bare shaft testing.
> The other tip is to have the target on a level where your bow arm is parallel with the ground.



+1

I was shooting my bow into my yellow jacket bag and was noticing that the shafts were sticking out in different directions. They were hitting where I was aiming (well... close to it... lol) but it seemed like I could see the back of the shaft whipping back and forth during flight. Went out and shot a 3D range and every arrow was sticking out of the foam in the same exact direction all day. Noticed that the tail whipping motion was gone. I have come to the conclusion that the arrow is not whipping back and forth during flight but I am seeing the tail whip as the arrow hits the bag as the filling is very inconsistent. Add in the fact that bare shafts stick out of the target the same as my fletched arrows... and I am happy. 

Shooting into foam confirmed my assumptions to me.


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

*Thanks*

Haven't had a chance to do anything else this week. I have a Yellow Jacket BH target, would that work better?




Cajun83 said:


> +1
> 
> I was shooting my bow into my yellow jacket bag and was noticing that the shafts were sticking out in different directions. They were hitting where I was aiming (well... close to it... lol) but it seemed like I could see the back of the shaft whipping back and forth during flight. Went out and shot a 3D range and every arrow was sticking out of the foam in the same exact direction all day. Noticed that the tail whipping motion was gone. I have come to the conclusion that the arrow is not whipping back and forth during flight but I am seeing the tail whip as the arrow hits the bag as the filling is very inconsistent. Add in the fact that bare shafts stick out of the target the same as my fletched arrows... and I am happy.
> 
> Shooting into foam confirmed my assumptions to me.


----------



## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

Absolutely, the broadhead target will work perfectly.
Before you make a common mistake, purchase a quality arrow lubricant like Scorpion Venom’s product. Spray silicone works too if used every time. Lube the first two inches and you should have no problem extracting them from the target.
Even my fat, slow alloy shafts seem to want to weld into a broadhead target. The lube will make it much easier to get them back out.


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

*Tuning*

Went back out today, shot three fletched and one bare shaft. Bare shaft arrow tore a vane on the fletched, but was still tail left in the target. 

Made a small adjustment, then at 20 yards I shot a BH, then three FPs. All hit high of the aim point, and the FPs hit left of the BH.

Made another adjustment, shot ONE FP and it was 1/2" off from my aim point!

Had to call it a day and get some work done. Hope to get a few more shots in tomorrow and see where it stands.


----------



## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

You are on the path.


----------



## WiregrassArcher (Feb 11, 2010)

Good stuff The Phantom,

Not enough people out there willing to put in the time to setup a bow correctly. They get it set with field points and walk away. :darkbeer:


----------



## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

The confidence you will have in your set up will pay HUGE dividends come bow season. 1/2", if that is consistent you may want to call it good for now. Sometimes we can really get caught up with "micro tuning" and it makes shooting a bow less enjoyable. No one should take this comment as = "good enough" we can always do better but at what cost?


----------



## bowhuntr311 (May 20, 2009)

454casull said:


> Sometimes we can really get caught up with "micro tuning" and it makes shooting a bow less enjoyable. No one should take this comment as = "good enough" we can always do better but at what cost?


Im a novice and maybe this will change. But I enjoy tuning my bow, I think its probably becuase I know that my friends will look to me to help them. And like you said the cofidence you have a setup will be huge when it comes to $-shot.


----------



## Cajun83 (Sep 30, 2009)

bowhuntr311 said:


> Im a novice and maybe this will change. But I enjoy tuning my bow, I think its probably becuase I know that my friends will look to me to help them. And like you said the cofidence you have a setup will be huge when it comes to $-shot.


Being able to enjoy tuning your bow is a good thing for sure but I think what he means is don't let it consume you. At some point, your bow is properly tuned... so stop fiddling with it and shoot it.


----------



## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

The question is: How do you get to Carnage Hall?

Answer: Practice, Practice, Practice…


----------



## Cajun83 (Sep 30, 2009)

konrad said:


> The question is: How do you get to Carnage Hall?
> 
> Answer: Practice, Practice, Practice…


I always wanted to live next to Carnegie hall so when people asked for directions to my house I could just say "Practice, Practice, Practice... and take a left."


----------



## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

Carnegie...my editor didn't catch the spelling error.


----------



## xecutioner (Jan 28, 2008)

The Phantom said:


> at 7 feet. I have plenty of room (5 acres) to walk back tune, but my target isn't tall enough to catch them at 20 and 40 yards! Since my windage is the same on all three pins, could I do walk back using separate pins?


instead of walk back tuning use the french tune method. it will save you about half an hour with same or better results.. sight your bow in at 60 yrds then walk up to any where from 3 to 6 yards dont move your pin. they both should hit same spot. obviously dont get to concerned with your ups and downs just your lefts and rights. as far as your bare shaft hitting to the right thats showing a weak spine lower your poundage should bring it back left. also you really cant bare shaft tune outside in any kind of wind is going to give you false results. adjust your knocking point bare shafting also . do this and youll probably be good through paper.remember all this is just a starting point anyway group tuning will be your final tuning.


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

*Finally*

got back out to shoot today. Only had time to shoot three arrows, but that's better than none!!

Distance = 20 yards
Shot the broadhead first, it's the CENTER arrow.
Shot the field point second, it's on the left.
Shot bare shaft third, it's on the right.

My center shot is quit a bit left of center, I didn't measure how far from the riser.

Sprayed foot powder on both fletched arrows from the front of the vanes back. Didn't see any indication of contact, however the arrows appear to have a problem. Porpoise and/or fishtail.

I picked up a 75 and 125 gr field point last week. Should I put the 75 gr on to see if the arrows are weak?

Any and all help is appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

ttt


----------



## The Phantom (Aug 13, 2007)

Anybody else?


----------



## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

I think perhaps you should check out this site, print off a copy and take it to your practice area for reference.

This is information GOLD and all you have to do is mine for the information pertaining to your set up.

Easton Technical Products knows arrows and archery.

Have some fun with it!

http://www.thearcher.com/depot/resourceCentre/completetuningguide.pdf

KL


----------



## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

I would shoot more to confirm whats going on but if you get the same results at 30 and 40 yards as the 3 you shot, I would move my rest left in very, very, small amounts until FP and BH are spot on. Looks like you are close and if you could group like that at 40, I would call it a day.


----------



## Hosscoller (Feb 10, 2009)

The Phantom said:


> got back out to shoot today. Only had time to shoot three arrows, but that's better than none!!
> 
> Distance = 20 yards
> Shot the broadhead first, it's the CENTER arrow.
> ...


If you are right handed your arrow is too weak, don't shoot any further back than 10 to 15 yds. Your nock point is perfect for your draw weight. If you drop down your point weight, your arrows will start to hit higher, if you continue to shoot at 20 yards, 4" high is acceptable for your bare shaft. But at around 10yds they should be same height. I went from a 400 spine 27" Easton Epic St @100grn, going 4" to the left (stiff) and 4 to 6" high from fletched. to a Easton Lightspeed 500, 27" @ 85grn arrow and my arrows impact dead center and 1" high at 10-15 yds. I shoot a Hoyt Super Hawk 26.5" draw @60lbs, and 16lb hold. Much happier with the lightspeeds in weaker spine smaller point. Groups, when I execute well are very very tight at all ranges.


----------

