# Current Bear Montana design flaw?



## thebatman (Nov 28, 2016)

Hi,

I'm looking at getting a Bear Montana longbow soon, but when reading the reviews online, I found one on a Romanian forum highlighting a design floor, hidden by the grip material.

It shows they have seams in the laminate, which are at an area on the bow that is under quite a bit of force at full draw.

Does anyone know if this is a big problem, and the current batch of Montanas still have this seem?

Thanks,
TBM

Original Romanian forum link


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## bullrambler (Mar 11, 2006)

It would have been useful if the description of what happened was included with the pics you posted.


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## thebatman (Nov 28, 2016)

Well, I ran the Romanian link through Google translate, seems to say the bow gave way to the weakness that is the seams in the outer laminate, hidden under the grip wrap.

Also just found this link also mentioning the seams.

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=1;t=114388

Not sure I want to get a Montana if there is a potential ticking time bomb like this?


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

Contact Kegan at Omega Long Bows, have him build you a bow of your choosing. 
You'll get more options and better performance for your money. https://www.facebook.com/Omega-Longbows-251726351526311/?fref=nf


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## berzerk64 (Nov 27, 2013)

That appears to be a spliced laminate, not uncommon at all. From the picture of the broken riser, it doesn't appear to be the source of the break, at least on the left side. Can't say for sure on the right. Splicing lams is very common, it's no less safe than laminating multiple layers of wood with the same glue. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I wouldn't be concerned about the splice.


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

Wonder if that bow was weakened by dryfiring? Lunger


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## thebatman (Nov 28, 2016)

I would only be looking at a 40 to 50lb Montana. 

Maybe these kind of stresses/breakages happen more with the high poundage Montanas, and perhaps light arrows?

If you say spliced lams are relatively common, and nothing to worry about, then that puts my mind at ease a bit about getting a Montana.


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## berzerk64 (Nov 27, 2013)

I'd say you aren't at any more risk than any other bow. We are taking natural, or natural and manmade materials, and combining them, then repeatedly stressing them by flexing them. The processes are pretty well down pat, but there is always some element of risk. It rises with draw weight, or at least the consequences of a failure seem greater at higher weights. If there's a mistake, or a weak piece of wood, or a flaw in the glass, or the glue is older than it is marked, etc., failures can happen. Fortunately, they are rare enough to be remarkable when they do. I think you can pick up a montana and shoot with the same confidence you'd have in any other bow. 

Lighter arrows is a good point, though, most manufacturers set a minimum GPP for their bows. I don't shoot light arrows for other reasons, but it doesn't hurt knowing I'm not sending more energy into the bow.


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Most bows are built with two tapered laminates on the belly and back (unless they use parallel laminates). There's nothing unusual about the Montana build and no extra stress to be concerned about.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

GBUSA said:


> Contact Kegan at Omega Long Bows, have him build you a bow of your choosing.
> You'll get more options and better performance for your money. https://www.facebook.com/Omega-Longbows-251726351526311/?fref=nf


What he said.

My wife has a Montana, and it's fine for what it is, but it's hardly a high performance machine. My daughter's Omega (older version) is a far better bow. When I buy another longbow, it will only be an Omega, of one kind or another.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

tbm -

Considering how many of those bows have been made over the years and how many have failed, that concern would be pretty low on my list of things to worry about. BTW - that split lamination practice is pretty common. 

The second photo (of the break) you posted seems a little suspicious. The pivot point is at the grip throat, for a bow to break as it did in the picture, there would have to have either been a defect in the wood, or the break was "manufactured". 

Viper1 out.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

The Bear Montana I shot was what drove me to buy a Bear AuSable long before I knew of custom builders like Kegan @ Omega.
But if you want to buy the 50 pounds of Montana so it shoots like 40 pounds of Omega, be my guest.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

The picture of the broken bow in reminiscent of a golf club shaped on a knee by a duffer. Maybe shooter missed target one time to many.


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## thebatman (Nov 28, 2016)

lol


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

That golf GIF is really funny. Been there, done that.


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## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

It is hard to say with absolute certainty, but the fibers show a side to side failure, as in being stepped on, as apposed to a front to back failure, as when under draw.

I would not hesitate to buy a Montana, based on that picture.

But gbusa is right about the AuSable and Omega, being much better bows.


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## Bender (Dec 6, 2006)

gnome said:


> It is hard to say with absolute certainty, but the fibers show a side to side failure, as in being stepped on, as apposed to a front to back failure, as when under draw.
> 
> I would not hesitate to buy a Montana, based on that picture.
> 
> But gbusa is right about the AuSable and Omega, being much better bows.


Whut gnome sed.


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## thebatman (Nov 28, 2016)

Out of interest, is there a minimum arrow gpp for the Montana? Couldn't see anything on the Bear webpage.

I've worked out my carbons with feathers would be 7.5 with a 100gr point. I guess I could use 125gr points instead, which would take it up to 8.1 (and hopefully not ruin the foc)

Could I get away with these arrows on a Montana?

Cheers,
TBM


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## joe vt (Oct 18, 2006)

I love my Montana. That broken riser photo looks odd. I've never seen a side to side breakage in any bow. 

@bat, I am shooting CE Heritage 90s & 150s out of Montana. That makes it 9.5 - 10.5 gpp


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

tbm -

Hill style LB limbs are inefficient by today's standards, odds on going too light with an arrow are pretty unlikely. I shot 7.2 gpp from my 1975 73# Hill for years and I still have the bow. 

Viper1 out.


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

joe vt said:


> ... I've never seen a side to side breakage in any bow....



I did one time. The guy ran over it with his car when backing out of the garage.


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## thebatman (Nov 28, 2016)

Viper1 - that lays my mind to rest about using my carbons on the Montana, thanks.

For the money I might get some 125gr points just to bump the gpp up feom 7.5 to 8.1

Interestingly, I did find a minimum gpp in a Bear manual online. It said don't go below 5gpp!


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

tbm - 

5 gpp is the red line for most modern bows, and I think might be a little too light. 7-8 is actually pretty common, and I'd get edgy when a bowyer says that he won't guarantee a bow if shot with an arrow that light..

Just remember, with a heavier head, you'll be weakening the spine, but probably not enough to make a big difference unless, your arrws are weak to begin with. 

Viper1 out.


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## sheepdogreno (Sep 29, 2014)

Don't let it discourage you from buying one. Bear will stand behind any new bow you buy trust me on that! What you see in that pic isn't common at all. Like anything things happen. That bow looks like it was run over by a truck can't say I've seen one break like that before


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

This ones in the classifieds now,


Bear Montana Longbow RH #[email protected]" 64"AMO

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...w.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5007033


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## thebatman (Nov 28, 2016)

So got the Montana in the end.

Initially disappointed when I first saw it, as the wood grain was kinda boring, and the bear coin was installed close to one side.

However, it has grown on me. Fun to shoot, and light to hold.

Fairly quiet, although there is a boing sound probably caused by light arrows.

It is marked 45#, but feels easier to draw than my 40# recurve, so might check that with scales​ at some point.

The 'leather' grip and rest are soft and comfortable, but can't see them lasting too long.

Is the Montana classed as a Hill style bow? (albeit a short one)


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## manowar669 (Apr 8, 2009)

Someone needs to photoshop Hillary's head on that golf kid gif and title it "Nov 2016".

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