# Future of hunting in Alberta?



## Despain (Aug 28, 2006)

This does not look good for us. here in Alberta. I had heard Rumors but the is the first I have read about it.


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## Rackmastr (Mar 20, 2006)

The program has its good points and has its negative points....really tough to say whether it will work and whether it will have positive or negative impacts on resident hunters. I definatly agree with some parts of the program, so long as others are monitored and the intent of the program maintains integrity. If anything, I'm hoping that it opens up some of the ranches that have long had very limited access....

Something to watch for sure....


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## Duke_II (Jul 4, 2005)

*?*

I just read it quickly, but that looks great. More opportunities for hunting. 

Are you concerned that your exclusive rights to hunt on a farm will disappear and they'll just open it all up to anyone?

Like i said, i read it very quickly, but fail to see how this isn't intended to benefit more sportsman and compensate the land owners.

I've spent a LOT of time hunting Alberta (Coronation area)... i just don't see this as a negative.


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## Maybee-R (May 15, 2006)

those incentives should help hunting opportunities. if they dont do something then ranchers and farmers will close all there property down to the public.


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## Despain (Aug 28, 2006)

*More*

Here is the rest of the story
Big Changes Coming In Alberta Deer Hunting

(Editor Note: As a practicing attorney with a specialty in hunting-related
matters, correspondent Ken Nowicki knows more about hunting in southern
Canada than anyone we know. Here's his take on where deer hunting is headed in his
home province of Alberta.)


I have been watching the development of Alberta whitetail deer outfitting for
the past 20 years. In the early 80s, the industry was small and operators
were free to hunt anywhere in the province with no restrictions on hunter numbers.
Nowadays, deer outfitters are governed by a self-regulated outfitter society.
Outfitters own allocations for specific zones, and they are restricted to
hunting in those zones and by the number of allocations they hold.

Make no mistake - big sums of money are involved here. Deer allocations in
Alberta are changing hands for upwards of $20,000 and individual hunts are
selling for as much as $5,000. The new system has turned what used to be a
good-old-boy activity into a genuine business run by professionals. One big change
hunters have seen is a change in hunting technique. The days of pickup trucks
and "run and gun" are long gone. This is because the law now requires
outfitters to have permission to enter any private lands they hunt. "Access
is the single biggest issue we have," reports Ryk Visscher, president of the
Alberta Professional Outfitters Association (APOS).

The reason access is so tough an issue in Alberta is a quirk in the law that
makes it illegal for anyone to pay a landowner for access to hunt. An
outfitter is not even supposed to ask for exclusive rights to hunt on private land, let
alone pay for it, according to Visscher. The unusual access law is supported
by resident hunters who feared a complete takeover of their hunting by
nonresidents. What it's done is push outfitters in the direction of
purchasing land themselves, often with the help of long term hunting clients. Some
outfitters are soliciting cash loans from clients and/or involving them in
land mortgages in return for long-term hunting privileges. Other outfitters are
going out of their way to hire farmers and ranchers as guides in order to
obtain the access that goes along with the hire.

What does all this mean for the nonresident hunter looking to buy a single
hunt in Alberta, or perhaps get more deeply involved in the province? Well, I
think first of all it pays to ask your outfitter what method of hunting will be
employed for your hunt. The best success nowadays seems to come from stand-
hunting operations. Secondly, I think you need to ask whether your hunt will
be conducted on public or private land and, more specifically, whether or not
the access is exclusive. It should be noted that no permission is needed to hunt
on public land in Alberta and that the entire province is a patchwork of public
and private land. This information has to be filtered through success rates
as well. There are outfitters who produce terrific deer on public lands, even
where they are subject to competition from other outfitters and from resident
hunters. Still, there is something wonderful about having complete control of
hunting lands.

The prospective Alberta deer hunter should also find out what type of
Operation his outfitter runs. Does he sell multi-year packages, or is he involved with
any hunters who have invested to get a long-term "lease?" Will these hunters
get the best hunts? I have no doubt that more and more outfitters and hunters
are going to collaborate in this fashion. The Texas-style deer lease or high-
fence operation will likely never be in favor or even possible in Alberta,
but the quality hunting that is made possible through land ownership is getting
more prevalent.

Foreign ownership of farmland in Alberta, incidentally, is not possible at
This time. However, a nonresident can take out a mortgage and contract a lease
arrangement with an outfitter or Alberta resident, assuring one of good
hunting in the context of a safe investment. As a lawyer, I have brokered many of
these deals, and some US investors have actually cashed out on increased land
prices in recent years. Unfortunately, the plummeting value of the Canadian dollar
has hurt that upside to some extent. The gamble today seems to be whether the US
dollar will rise even further against our currency.

The development to watch is the ongoing implementation of NAFTA (North
American Free Trade Act). Already, it is legal for an American to own and operate a
hunting business in Saskatchewan. Here in Alberta, a foreigner can own a
license to outfit bird hunts. I believe it is only a matter of lodging the
right challenge to our laws and Americans will gain the right to hold deer
allocations as well. In point of fact, I have already been retained by an
American who has spent a lot of money bankrolling a deer and bear outfit in
Alberta. He wants me to get him the right to hold the allocations in his
name.

Then he can realize his dream of working in the hunting business. I expect
the challenge will take a year or more to wind through the court system.

Clearly, NAFTA is beginning to open up a lot of new avenues for American
hunters. Over the years, I have handled many investments in Canadian
outfitting in the Yukon and British Columbia, as well as in Alberta. One continuing
problem is, banks have trouble understanding the outfitting business. This
makes it hard for the beginning outfitter to obtain conventional financing,
which is what pushes them toward friends and would-be hunters for the money
to buy and operate a start-up outfit. Security for the investor has always been
one of the key issues. There are legions of stories of investors who have
been taken by poorly papered arrangements with a backwoods sharpie. It is better
to get things organized properly with legal advice right from the start.

(Postscript: Ken Nowicki tells us, incidentally, that Alberta Professional
Outfitters Association publishes a list of outfitters that is must reading by
anyone contemplating a hunt in the province.)


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## Despain (Aug 28, 2006)

Duke_II said:


> I just read it quickly, but that looks great. More opportunities for hunting.
> 
> Are you concerned that your exclusive rights to hunt on a farm will disappear and they'll just open it all up to anyone?
> 
> ...



not really worried about exclusive rights I share anyway. it is the thought of someday maybe having to pay 5000.00 to shoot a deer.


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## Despain (Aug 28, 2006)

Maybee-R said:


> those incentives should help hunting opportunities. if they dont do something then ranchers and farmers will close all there property down to the public.


This is true, the problem in Alberta is anytime something is put in the hands of the private sector we get raped. Telephone, Natural Gas, etc etc


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## bobbie (Jan 20, 2006)

*ttt*

Yes this has its good and bad points but in the end it us the hunters and fishern=man and hickers etc that are going to get screwed ,
I would have tought that if any body would understand it would be the people that have already had their spoart ,recreation and passion taking any from them from the the select gruopos of people that dont care about any body or anything else then them selves and the almighty dollar.
This has been in the works now for 8 mths,the govment has tried to keeep it hush ,hush.It leaked out and we have been told not to create any waves .The bioligest in the area has spoke out and he has been told to keep his mouth shut or he could loose his job.
it is just another case of the goverment and the other people in this arcticale going to do what the want with out any in put from the rest of the people.
The rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer.
Tehy take our licence money and put it to use in other parts of the system,they dont put it back in to the fish and wildlife.Hell when i went to register my mountain lion ,the secretary says there wont be a officer in until 3 days later because they dont didnt have any gas for their vehicals,they had to use their own money.
Despain and my self live in a awsome place with in 1 hour we can hunt whitetails, Mulies ,Elk,Big horns ,Mountain Goats,Mooose, Pronghorns,Mountian Lion, Coyotes , Wolves,Bobcats, Black Bears , Grizzly ( we havent been able to hunt them for 3 yrs now because they say there is not enough) we dont know where they are getting their info but we can go for hunt and see 6 griz in one drainage. Not to mention all kinds of birds ,and varmites , fishing hikiing etc.
Our licenses are going up this yaer thtas ok with me aslong as i have a place to hunt .if not there will be a lot of shooting and dragging going on more then whats happening now.
Ya iam pisst of at them and so are a lot of other people.


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## Northern-Mom (Sep 28, 2007)

I moved to Alberta from the Yukon and it sure is a lot different here. The moose we got last fall in the Yukon was 3 km from home. It was good payback for the bugger that ate all my cauliflower from the garden (why do they take one bite from every one?)

I'm not used to difficulty with access, this sounds like it will make it worse for people without 7 figures in the bank account. Its not going to get better until the petroleum industry falls out again, I was paying $1350/mo plus utilities for a 3 bedroom 900 sqf half duplex.

This is like communism, sounds good on paper but its going to bite us in the butt. I would rather see farmers be forced to allow hunting access in order to get wildlife crop loss rebates. Alberta is booming (Stelmach's lovely royalty decision could screw that, its already affecting the industry) and more people moving in means more people wanting the outdoor experience that is supposed to be here. I know I am part of the problem, I moved here too. If we didn't have the sweet deal on our mobile home we fell into, I wold pack up and move to SK for the job my husband was offered, $33/hr, all the hours he wants, overtime paid plus benefits and doing what he enjoys. The same problem will be there but we will have the money to pay and then I will be the one screaming YES like a cheap *****.


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## Despain (Aug 28, 2006)

*Amen*



Northern-Mom said:


> I moved to Alberta from the Yukon and it sure is a lot different here. The moose we got last fall in the Yukon was 3 km from home. It was good payback for the bugger that ate all my cauliflower from the garden (why do they take one bite from every one?)
> 
> I'm not used to difficulty with access, this sounds like it will make it worse for people without 7 figures in the bank account. Its not going to get better until the petroleum industry falls out again, I was paying $1350/mo plus utilities for a 3 bedroom 900 sqf half duplex.
> 
> This is like communism, sounds good on paper but its going to bite us in the butt. I would rather see farmers be forced to allow hunting access in order to get wildlife crop loss rebates. Alberta is booming (Stelmach's lovely royalty decision could screw that, its already affecting the industry) and more people moving in means more people wanting the outdoor experience that is supposed to be here. I know I am part of the problem, I moved here too. If we didn't have the sweet deal on our mobile home we fell into, I wold pack up and move to SK for the job my husband was offered, $33/hr, all the hours he wants, overtime paid plus benefits and doing what he enjoys. The same problem will be there but we will have the money to pay and then I will be the one screaming YES like a cheap *****.


Amen


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## Despain (Aug 28, 2006)

*ttt*

does anyone else have information on this. I know there is a big Ranch owned by an organization that the people running it allow Certain guides hunt it but no one else. They keep saving the big ones for Chuck Adams

:zip:


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## Rackmastr (Mar 20, 2006)

The Deseret is one of the ranches in the pilot program....truly if you wanted to hunt it then this program should be a good thing. 

The best discussions on this topic are on the Alberta Outdoorsmen message board....TONS of opinions, speculation, arguments, etc...


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