# re-training/re-programing the brain



## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

you might consider try a slightly longer draw length. by slightly longer, I mean a twist or two or three. it's that critical ! a jerky float, is usually a sign of have a just slightly short draw length.


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Agree'd 100%. I have played with my draw length in recent weeks and have found that I had shortened my DL some thinking it would improve. After shooting and it not getting any better, I started to play with various amounts of twist in the string and found a setting where I feel comfortable, however, I do not believe it to be a draw length issue.

In Padgett's article about spectator shooting, he discusses about how to find your optimal shot window, or where you can hold "steady" till you start to fatigue and your float window dissolves. When I do this test, I have an extremely fine float and can hold my my .010" pin in the ten ring at 20 yards for up to 8-10 seconds. However, when I go to shoot, this completely falls apart, and when I start my firing engine, and begin to aim, my float will completely go to hell... I used to shoot with pure BT, because as a recurve shooter originally, thats how I was taught to pull through the clicker. So this is how I shot a hinge, for years. I am one of those people who found it very frustrating with hinge.


So I started trying different engines, and found the yield method to the most comfotable and easily repeatable method for myself, that affects my float the least. (whether its the best way, who knows? lol). However, as soon as pressure builds , I become jerky and I know I am trying to subconsciously hold that pin dead in the center.


edit: and ronw, you still shooting that Supra I sold you?


----------



## Justin (Aug 11, 2003)

relax and trust your float.. I have to mentally think about it every shot.. trust


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I have a write up on my website ( link below ) that I wrote and actually talk about re training your brain and how your thought process should work. I'm hoping it might help you. PM me after you read it and let me know your thoughts and questions and we can start working from there.


----------



## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

I just have a short comment. Your post was a very telling one. You're all over the place.

Get you a bow and forget about what the draw length is as long as you're close, forget what arrows, draw weight, release, peep, nocks, points, FOC, forget EVERYTHING. Make your pursuit the quest to develop the perfect shot. Then...........someday...........you'll be able to shoot a good enough shot that you will be able to tell if any of those things make a difference. Until you can repeat a shot time after time after time, there isn't one thing from the equipment side that will make enough difference to make you an advanced archer. 

Not being harsh........just brief, and very pointed. Good luck. :cheers:


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

bsp5019 said:


> Agree'd 100%. I have played with my draw length in recent weeks and have found that I had shortened my DL some thinking it would improve. After shooting and it not getting any better, I started to play with various amounts of twist in the string and found a setting where I feel comfortable, however, I do not believe it to be a draw length issue.
> 
> In Padgett's article about spectator shooting, he discusses about how to find your optimal shot window, or where you can hold "steady" till you start to fatigue and your float window dissolves. When I do this test, I have an extremely fine float and can hold my my .010" pin in the ten ring at 20 yards for up to 8-10 seconds. However, when I go to shoot, this completely falls apart, and when I start my firing engine, and begin to aim, my float will completely go to hell... I used to shoot with pure BT, because as a recurve shooter originally, thats how I was taught to pull through the clicker. So this is how I shot a hinge, for years. I am one of those people who found it very frustrating with hinge.
> 
> ...


I re read what you wrote here that I bolded. Try reading my aiming article too to give a better idea of that process as well. It goes along with the re training your thought process write up.


----------



## PUGIDOGS (Mar 17, 2005)

RCR_III said:


> I re read what you wrote here that I bolded. Try reading my aiming article too to give a better idea of that process as well. It goes along with the re training your thought process write up.


Nice article RCR III. It describes how I go about my shot. If I consciously try to control my float it will get even worse. I let my body do what it knows how to do through many, many hours of training. Muscle memory without a brain is how I describe it. Pugi


----------



## PUGIDOGS (Mar 17, 2005)

Double post, Sorry..........small flinch on the enter button :mg:


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

I like the description. I feel like there's a process to getting there. If you start out with good form that you can repeat, then fine tune the draw length and loop length to get the float as small as your capable of, then you just have to start working on the stabilizers to find a good weight balance to compliment your shot. After that, there's not much else to it. Just point and shoot really. We try too hard to reach a certain outcome and all that does is just destroy the hard work we put in prior. All work, no reward.


PUGIDOGS said:


> Nice article RCR III. It describes how I go about my shot. If I consciously try to control my float it will get even worse. I let my body do what it knows how to do through many, many hours of training. Muscle memory without a brain is how I describe it. Pugi


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Lazarus said:


> I just have a short comment. Your post was a very telling one. You're all over the place.
> 
> Get you a bow and forget about what the draw length is as long as you're close, forget what arrows, draw weight, release, peep, nocks, points, FOC, forget EVERYTHING. Make your pursuit the quest to develop the perfect shot. Then...........someday...........you'll be able to shoot a good enough shot that you will be able to tell if any of those things make a difference. Until you can repeat a shot time after time after time, there isn't one thing from the equipment side that will make enough difference to make you an advanced archer.
> 
> Not being harsh........just brief, and very pointed. Good luck. :cheers:


Agree'd...thats why I said its not a draw length issue. Thats also why I've committed, for the next month, two, or three...however long it takes, to just bare bailing, and making the whole process subconscious. I mean, there are certain aspects of my form and shot sequence that are subconscious because I have done them for years and they are what feels comfortable, but the actual firing engine is not something that I have dedicated to muscle memory.

And don't worry about being harsh. I can take with with the best, and I do agree with you. I appreciate all feed back on the topic and hope that we can get an open dialogue going to not only help me, but other archers as well!:thumbs_up:cheers:


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

RCR_III said:


> I re read what you wrote here that I bolded. Try reading my aiming article too to give a better idea of that process as well. It goes along with the re training your thought process write up.


Thanks! I'll defintely read it and take it in.


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Well Well Well, 

1. During the next few months I would suggest just not shooting scoring rounds and doing running totals, some of my best shooting experiences ever have been doing this shooting session and it is freaking fun. Basically you just shoot a 5-spot target or vegas and you keep track of how many you hit in a row and the second you miss you start over a new running total. In the beginning you might only make it 5 or 10 shots but sooner or later you will get to 40 50 80 130 400 shots in a row and that is when your confidence will be through the roof instead of shooting scoring rounds and suffering with the same stinking scores.

2. You mentioned feeling or seeing a really good float when you were just letting down type drills but when you tried to shoot it was way different, then you need to spend the time deciding what little issues in the transition from being on the thumb peg to off the thumb peg are causing the problem and then train yourself to do it smoothly. Secondly I have also picked certain firing engines that affect my float less than others and I use them. All firing engines will send the arrow on its way to the target but some of them do it smoother than others.


----------



## Archery 365 (Jan 10, 2015)

Thank you this is great information. I have a 9 yr old shooting JOAD and is a consistent 265-270. This year he has dealt with target panic and now fights "floating" and even as a 9 yr old he will explain that he drifts down below the bullseye. I can't wait to share this with him tonight. We have a two break until the PA state JOAD. I am letting take a week off in hopes he might reset. He loves archery and has over pressured himself to get his Bronze pin and built up this idea he must shoot perfectly. 
Any advice for a dad like me that does not over pressure but wants to coach him to improve his abilities?


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Archery 365, i think a good coach or dad presents good info in a easy way for each kid to understand it and then you have to step back and allow them to use it or not. If the kid is actually interested in making himself better then he will take some of the stuff that you present and make it part of their bag of tricks but nobody is going to use 100% of what any coach presents. Maybe they should have but for some reason they didn't.

At 9 years of age I would be flexible and not to picky about methods, tying down a kid to one set of stuff is going to restrict him from experiencing the other methods out there that he might have really shot well with.


----------



## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

In many ways, it's a catch 22.
You have to trust your float...but you have to have a good float before you can trust it.
Over the winter I found what I feel is a unique solution for me (see post about cruise control) that helps me shoot my best by not interfering with my float. As you mentioned, it is not uncommon for one to be able to hold really well.... until we decide we want to actually shoot the arrow. Then our floats get all funky. Be it shaking, or a little bobble here and there, the act of starting the shot, or engine messes up our float. SOMETIMES it's physical. Your engine can be putting too much stress into the wall, or pulling you out of alignment etc. Sometimes it's mental. Now that it counts, we try to strangle to pin and fight it the whole time. 
There is a release that can give you an idea of what it's like to eliminate the physical side. A hydraulic (SCAT is a brand I think) release fires a short time after it's activated. No need to pull harder, or rotate, it will go off on it's own. You are free to have the amount of tension that works best for your float. You can learn to shoot like that a number of ways.
The benefit to your engine NOT affecting your float is, as mentioned, the float is usually pretty good if you know you not loosing an arrow. THAT float is easier to trust than the shaking, bobbing float you get when your going to shoot the arrow. For me, eliminating the starting/stopping/starting of my engine was a big deal.

For you, I would suggest not so much blind/blank bailing, as I would suggest shooting short games. Shoot at a distance you KNOW you will not miss (at your level, 7-10 yards should be doable). Now there isn't the issue of possibly missing. You don't "need" to force that pin to be perfect, you'll still shoot "perfect" Now you can simply watch what your float looks like the same as when you know you won't be shooting, because it doesn't matter. You get to start shooting with the same float you have when your not shooting. The more you shoot that float, the more you trust it, the less effect your engine (mentally) will have on it. And you can also see if the engine (physically) is messing with your float.

I have been stuck shooting mostly garage distance (8 yards) for about 85% of my shooting....if nothing else, it forced me to see the benefits of the short game. Not that the float itself will translate into something as good at 20 yards, but that you can one by one eliminate the things messing with your float.
At least that's what it did for me, your results may vary.


----------



## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

Based on your original post, I suggest learning how to hold would be the first step towards success. I've always been of the mistaken belief that hold was a natural ability... you either had it or you didn't. I was wrong and currently experiencing the best hold of my shooting life. The quote below comes from another thread, but it is well within the boundaries of this topic. It is helping me beyond words and I strongly recommend taking a look at it and try to understand the process. I find this easy to implement and repeat. 



cbrunson said:


> One of the problems I noticed when learning to relax the bow arm is that you naturally want to drift down at first making you tense up again, trying to raise it back up. That is a problem with relaxing too much on your release arm and not keeping enough pressure against your bow arm, or letting your shoulder collapse.
> 
> If you focus on keeping your shoulder down, start pulling with your release and then start with relaxing your hand. Then relax your arm muscles. If your elbow wants to bend, straighten it just until it stops trying to bend, but don't force it straight. You still need to relax it. Once you feel your whole bow arm relax, you will control the fine movement of the dot with only your pullling force from your release hand.
> 
> After you get this part working correctly, then we can talk about how the different release methods affect the float.


----------



## Archery 365 (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks. You make valid points. We are having a wonderful indoor season, he has coaches at club but looks to me for that one on one. I want to help, but in so many words I can't do it for him. He really has a big love for archery, I walk in the door from work and the bows and bags are ready to go. It's tough I don't want to be mistaken for the overbearing parent, but I am very competitive. Your comments are much appreciated.


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Padgett said:


> Well Well Well,
> 
> 1. During the next few months I would suggest just not shooting scoring rounds and doing running totals, some of my best shooting experiences ever have been doing this shooting session and it is freaking fun. Basically you just shoot a 5-spot target or vegas and you keep track of how many you hit in a row and the second you miss you start over a new running total. In the beginning you might only make it 5 or 10 shots but sooner or later you will get to 40 50 80 130 400 shots in a row and that is when your confidence will be through the roof instead of shooting scoring rounds and suffering with the same stinking scores.
> 
> 2. You mentioned feeling or seeing a really good float when you were just letting down type drills but when you tried to shoot it was way different, then you need to spend the time deciding what little issues in the transition from being on the thumb peg to off the thumb peg are causing the problem and then train yourself to do it smoothly. Secondly I have also picked certain firing engines that affect my float less than others and I use them. All firing engines will send the arrow on its way to the target but some of them do it smoother than others.


I think my goal over the next few months will be to blank bail and try and get my shot process, specifically my firing engine as automated or as "on cruise control" as possible. I think from there I can work on short range games/shooting drills such as shoot 10's until you miss and then start again. I think the key for me, before I can even worry about float again, is to work until im on cruise control and I gain that understanding/realization that my release is going to go off...I think once that happens, I'll have enough consistency to work on aiming.


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

A lot of people enjoy the blank bale thing or short scoring games, the fact is sooner or later you have to scoot back and once you are there the impulse to shoot a scoring round and judge your shooting will happen and it is easy to get discouraged. That is when you should consider just doing running totals instead of shooting a scoring round.


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Mahly said:


> In many ways, it's a catch 22.
> You have to trust your float...but you have to have a good float before you can trust it.
> Over the winter I found what I feel is a unique solution for me (see post about cruise control) that helps me shoot my best by not interfering with my float. As you mentioned, it is not uncommon for one to be able to hold really well.... until we decide we want to actually shoot the arrow. Then our floats get all funky. Be it shaking, or a little bobble here and there, the act of starting the shot, or engine messes up our float. SOMETIMES it's physical. Your engine can be putting too much stress into the wall, or pulling you out of alignment etc. Sometimes it's mental. Now that it counts, we try to strangle to pin and fight it the whole time.
> There is a release that can give you an idea of what it's like to eliminate the physical side. A hydraulic (SCAT is a brand I think) release fires a short time after it's activated. No need to pull harder, or rotate, it will go off on it's own. You are free to have the amount of tension that works best for your float. You can learn to shoot like that a number of ways.
> The benefit to your engine NOT affecting your float is, as mentioned, the float is usually pretty good if you know you not loosing an arrow. THAT float is easier to trust than the shaking, bobbing float you get when your going to shoot the arrow. For me, eliminating the starting/stopping/starting of my engine was a big deal.


I have noticed that different firing engines have different affects on float. Any firing engine that involves any amount of "pully" or "squeezing" tends to pull my pin directly out of the sight picutre....how ever, a yield style, like how GRIV, or Chance Beaubouef, or Dan McCarthy shoots, effects my float the least. However, I wonder how long, in terms of repeated shots, will it take to become automated.

A quasi mentor and friend of mine, Bill Jones, who recently placed 2nd behind Chris Perkin's at the ABB Indoor Shoot-Off shoots with as I would describe it, a "pure bt" style (He was a very accomplished junior and JOAD recurve shooter in the 90's and early 2000's). I can not shoot that way at all. While i do have the ability to shoot that way, it is very inaccurate and very shaky for me. I find that it puts a tremendous amount of stress and tension in my draw side. I prefer the relaxed style of the yield.

[/QUOTE]For you, I would suggest not so much blind/blank bailing, as I would suggest shooting short games. Shoot at a distance you KNOW you will not miss (at your level, 7-10 yards should be doable). Now there isn't the issue of possibly missing. You don't "need" to force that pin to be perfect, you'll still shoot "perfect" Now you can simply watch what your float looks like the same as when you know you won't be shooting, because it doesn't matter. You get to start shooting with the same float you have when your not shooting. The more you shoot that float, the more you trust it, the less effect your engine (mentally) will have on it. And you can also see if the engine (physically) is messing with your float.

I have been stuck shooting mostly garage distance (8 yards) for about 85% of my shooting....if nothing else, it forced me to see the benefits of the short game. Not that the float itself will translate into something as good at 20 yards, but that you can one by one eliminate the things messing with your float.
At least that's what it did for me, your results may vary.[/QUOTE]

I know all to well the "strangle the pin" feeling, because that is what I believe I am doing. I feel that I'm strangling it, because my firing engine isnt automated and then I'm shaking which causes stopping of the firing engine. I just need to learn or realize how to let the float, float lol


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Padgett said:


> A lot of people enjoy the blank bale thing or short scoring games, the fact is sooner or later you have to scoot back and once you are there the impulse to shoot a scoring round and judge your shooting will happen and it is easy to get discouraged. That is when you should consider just doing running totals instead of shooting a scoring round.


Agree'd....Im gonna blank bail some to get the process smoothed out, and then I'll give it a go this summer once the whether gets nice here in PA. I have about 10 yards currently to shoot in the basement and that's where I do 85% of my practicing. Lots of short games and such, so that's why the blank bale will be easiest.

My brother does a modified version of the running total game you do. We dont normally shoot 5 spot, so we do vegas 3, but he'll shoot till he misses a ten, and then he just bare bales after that.... and then the next time he shoots he repeats....by doing this, he's developed the ability to shoot consistent 299, 300 (20-25x) vega's halves. So there is definitely a lot of merit to this drill, and it will definitely be something that I will be doing after I'm done with my bare baling period.


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

bsp5019,

I don't know what really is going on with your shooting, I have read your posts and the one thing that I strongly suggest that you consider is your hinge speed. I have done a lot of testing and shooting with a variety of speeds over the last couple years because I simply didn't want to let something good to not get its fair share of training. My last good 2.5 month section of training with a slow hinge left me even more convinced that for my personal scoring I am simply better with a hinge that is set where once I take my finger off the peg it is really close to firing. For me this allows me to run a very subtle firing engine that sends the arrow on its way without hardly any effort at all and many times it ends up being like Mahly's cruise control where I really didn't feel like I did anything.

It just seems like to me you may be a guy that has it set slow enough that you are having to produce so much rotation that it is causing you to be scared that it isn't going to fire and that you are going to pull the pin off the target and that you might have to add some effort because it isn't firing and all these types of issues are causing you to struggle. 

If this sounds like something you want to work on and I am talking hinge speed then you can pm me and i have some thoughts.


----------



## PUGIDOGS (Mar 17, 2005)

Padgett said:


> A lot of people enjoy the blank bale thing or short scoring games, the fact is sooner or later you have to scoot back and once you are there the impulse to shoot a scoring round and judge your shooting will happen and it is easy to get discouraged. That is when you should consider just doing running totals instead of shooting a scoring round.


I do this as well, I will shoot my 60 shots at close range, hitting the same hole over and over with one arrow. Shoot and go retrieve arrow then setup and shoot again. After I am done, I back up to 20 yards and shoot again with one arrow at a time. I see how many X's I can get in a row. If a arrow is not a X, the game is over and I put the bow away for that session. I do this after I shoot practice because I am tired and it is the best time to see how I am doing, any flaws show up when tired. Also it puts pressure on me to make as many X's as I can when tired. That helps me with the pressure of competition and making the shot when it really counts. Pugi


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

Padgett said:


> bsp5019,
> 
> I don't know what really is going on with your shooting, I have read your posts and the one thing that I strongly suggest that you consider is your hinge speed. I have done a lot of testing and shooting with a variety of speeds over the last couple years because I simply didn't want to let something good to not get its fair share of training. My last good 2.5 month section of training with a slow hinge left me even more convinced that for my personal scoring I am simply better with a hinge that is set where once I take my finger off the peg it is really close to firing. For me this allows me to run a very subtle firing engine that sends the arrow on its way without hardly any effort at all and many times it ends up being like Mahly's cruise control where I really didn't feel like I did anything.
> 
> ...


In readying this I would have to agree with you, I feel with all my firing engines, I am have them set slow, and I am afraid of two specific things, 1) the release begin toooo fast and not having the ability to settle and aim, and 2), which is probably what is going on, my hinge is two slow,and I'm having to produce a ton of movement in my hand, which I believe I am.

PM sent.


----------



## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

EPLC said:


> Based on your original post, I suggest learning how to hold would be the first step towards success. I've always been of the mistaken belief that hold was a natural ability... you either had it or you didn't. I was wrong and currently experiencing the best hold of my shooting life. The quote below comes from another thread, but it is well within the boundaries of this topic. It is helping me beyond words and I strongly recommend taking a look at it and try to understand the process. I find this easy to implement and repeat.


Battles with the release are always going to be the popular “need to fix” topics in these forums. The belief that somehow making the thing magically go off without thought, is comforting. The only problem I have with this is consistency. Just letting it happen works well enough for the majority of shots, but then those few bad ones sneak in and bite you unexpectedly. They don’t seem to be an issue when you are improving from a 40X average to close to 50X, but when you are battling for those last couple, to start punching 60Xs, you easily notice the differences between good and bad shots. I have noticed that with a 57X average, I will actually make ten or more “bad” shots, meaning I know I didn’t get it right, even if seven of those still caught the X. It may even be closer to fifteen “bad” shots.

You can’t see the effects of a bad release unless you know how to aim, so you’re just guessing by feel whether or not it is working correctly. Little things like starting to pull into your face, up, down, etc. only show up if you know how to aim. The neat thing is that once you learn how to aim, you don’t have to focus on it. You don’t have to fight to keep it holding in the middle, so you can then focus on your release.


----------



## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

cbrunson said:


> Battles with the release are always going to be the popular “need to fix” topics in these forums. The belief that somehow making the thing magically go off without thought, is comforting. The only problem I have with this is consistency. Just letting it happen works well enough for the majority of shots, but then those few bad ones sneak in and bite you unexpectedly. They don’t seem to be an issue when you are improving from a 40X average to close to 50X, but when you are battling for those last couple, to start punching 60Xs, you easily notice the differences between good and bad shots. I have noticed that with a 57X average, I will actually make ten or more “bad” shots, meaning I know I didn’t get it right, even if seven of those still caught the X. It may even be closer to fifteen “bad” shots.
> 
> You can’t see the effects of a bad release unless you know how to aim, so you’re just guessing by feel whether or not it is working correctly. Little things like starting to pull into your face, up, down, etc. only show up if you know how to aim. The neat thing is that once you learn how to aim, you don’t have to focus on it. You don’t have to fight to keep it holding in the middle, so you can then focus on your release.


Brilliant cbrunson. :cheers:

You just destroyed hundreds of type written pages of commonly held beliefs (in my opinion written in error) about shooting a bow in two paragraphs. Not much I can ad to that. But I do want to point just one thing out.....



cbrunson said:


> The belief that somehow making the thing magically go off without thought, is comforting.


^ This is such a popular idea, or the "subconscious" release if you will. But here's the thing, to make a quality shot you have to be *in* the shot. To be *in* the shot it's my belief that you have to be thinking about something regarding the shot. Not singing some song in your head.

Now....if that's the case, you have one of two choices, think about the aim, or think about the release. So, since the body automatically has a centering device installed, that allows you to hit where you look, why not just stare a hole in what you want to hit while *thinking* about pulling off an outstanding release? I know, I know, the next thing I'm going to hear is yes, but what about (I'm not going to say the patented "buzzword" for it) firing anxiety? What about firing anxiety? 

Well...........if you have to worry about firing anxiety even one bit you aren't ready for that level of shooting anyway. Better go back to the blank bale or 10 yard game.


----------



## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

cbrunson said:


> You can’t see the effects of a bad release unless you know how to aim, so you’re just guessing by feel whether or not it is working correctly. Little things like starting to pull into your face, up, down, etc. only show up if you know how to aim. The neat thing is that once you learn how to aim, you don’t have to focus on it. You don’t have to fight to keep it holding in the middle, so you can then focus on your release.



So this begs the question? How do you aim? What is the proper way to aim? On a vegas face, do you pin point the dead center and focus on that, or do you just kind of "look" at the gold, and observe what is going on, as if you looking at something through a window?


----------



## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I treat my aiming just like my firing of the hinge, I have worked on it. Anytime I have a float that is freakish good I take a moment or two to visualize or reflect on what about my form or mental or something that made that particular hold so good. Then I try and repeat that float or hold how ever you want to think about it. 

In fact I actually do this as a shooting session or drill, I come back to anchor and I put my focus directly on the float pattern and I pay close attention to my entire body and all the things that are affecting it and how to either eliminate it or use it to my advantage.

One of the things that this winter that I have added is pre load into the wall with back tension, for the most part I have been standing next to the wall just sitting in the valley next to it. By adding some pre load to my system it immediately shrank my float and made my entire shot feel more solid and in fact the way I describe it to people is making the fluid in my sight bubble really thick and that is the affect it had on my float compared to having water in the bubble and the bubble dancing around.


----------



## PUGIDOGS (Mar 17, 2005)

bsp5019 said:


> So this begs the question? How do you aim? What is the proper way to aim? On a vegas face, do you pin point the dead center and focus on that, or do you just kind of "look" at the gold, and observe what is going on, as if you looking at something through a window?


For me, I focus with a pin point laser eye at the center cross of the X. If there is a arrow hole in the X, I try and look at a specific tear in the paper on the edge of the hole. I like to look at the smallest thing my eyes can make out. If I look at the whole spot my shots spread out. Aim small, miss small. Pugi


----------



## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

bsp5019 said:


> So this begs the question? How do you aim? What is the proper way to aim? On a vegas face, do you pin point the dead center and focus on that, or do you just kind of "look" at the gold, and observe what is going on, as if you looking at something through a window?


It’s a little more complicated than just “aiming”.

I think this is where most people get confused with the term. You can’t simply point and hold the dot (or pin) in the middle of the spot. But you also don’t want to forget about trying to either.

It starts with the basic form elements and works up to a confident ability to control your muscles in your arms, back, and legs. There is not a “one size fits all” method of achieving a perfect hold unless you keep it purposely basic or vague. It would be better if you could explain to me what your sight picture looks like, and then answer a few simple questions to narrow down exactly what it is you need to do to get it to settle down. 

That is assuming you do not struggle with any TP issues.


----------



## PSE Archer (Oct 26, 2014)

Padgett said:


> One of the things that this winter that I have added is pre load into the wall with back tension, for the most part I have been standing next to the wall just sitting in the valley next to it. By adding some pre load to my system it immediately shrank my float and made my entire shot feel more solid ...


This works. I do it.

When I hit full draw I hit the stops pretty solid and keep that tension loaded in my back. Steadies the pin and shrinks the groups.

To many archers do not finish "setting up" the shot before going to the target. If the set up is different then the end result is different. Aiming only takes a few seconds - setting up to that point is what is important. This will keep the archer focused on himself and not the outcome.


----------



## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

PSE Archer said:


> Aiming only takes a few seconds - setting up to that point is what is important. This will keep the archer focused on himself and not the outcome.



That is a very good point that doesn't get brought up very often. A lot of emphasis is put on drawing to the spot, and getting the shot off quickly when getting set is the most important thing. I've found that a good majority of my bad shots are when the dot finds the center quickly, but I don't let everything settle in before starting the shot execution.


----------

