# Samick Sage Review (with video)



## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Hey there, AT folks:

I've done up a review and video of my Samick Sage. Please check it out by clicking on the link below.

http://cavemangym.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/samick-sage-review-part-one-first-impressions/

Cheers, and Happy New Year,

Patrick


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## fnds (Dec 2, 2010)

Nice review. 25# limbs are available. I got a pair from Lancaster Archery. Thanks.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Fnds,

Thanks for the info. I had seen them, but I didn't know where. Last I checked at 3Rivers, the lowest they had were 35#. I didn't get hung up on it, since I wasn't in the market for the really light limbs.

Glad you enjoyed the review.

Cheers, and Happy New Year,

Patrick


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

I laughed out loud at "deernk".:smile: What is your draw length (and how do you measure it when you let loose so _fast_?) and how long are the arrows?
It would help to know, because you say it weighs 44# at your draw. Just curious.

Great job - usually it irritates me when someone "spams their blog", but yours is definitely worth a look around.


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## Night Wing (Feb 4, 2009)

Nice video. I always enjoy seeing your videos. Your review of the Sage was very good too.


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

thanks, i also enjoyed your video and review.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Very nice.....are the limbs interchangeable?


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

Yes, but only with other Sage limbs.


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## IsHeBreathing? (Feb 11, 2011)

Think Im gonna try one out.. Thanks.


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

Excellent review Patrick! Great video and really liked the music! I've been shooting beman ics hunters out of my sage and doing well with them. Thanks Man! and Happy new year! scout4


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Arrowwood said:


> Yes, but only with other Sage limbs.


Thanks, I figured that was the case.......I bet they cost as much as the whole bow!


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

No, only $70+ tax and shipping! I might get some just to bolt onto an old Bear compound riser.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Arrowwood said:


> No, only $70+ tax and shipping! I might get some just to bolt onto an old Bear compound riser.


Thats not as much as I figured they would be. If I get a 45lb Sage and I work my way along till I feel like I could pull a little more then I could upgrade to a 50lb for sure. Heck a sight for my compound cost more than that. Thanks for the info and I'm getting charged up to buy a Sage.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks, all. 

Arrowwood, 

My draw is around 29-30. The arrows are full length. The quick release is a thing I'm working on. I specifically put a "hitch in my getty-up" when I'm drawing, because I tend to release as soon as I hit anchor, and the slower draw cycle helps me get a better aim. It may not appear this way, but my primary mantra is, "slow, slow, slow." It FEELS slow to me, but never looks that way on video.

I try not to annoy people with my blog. It's there in the sig if anyone's interested, but I rarely link there. In this case, though, it was just too much text to throw into a post, so I did it with a link.

Scout, glad you enjoyed it. Do you tend to concur with my findings? I believe you said that you had a 35# Sage. Have you tried the fast flight string on yours yet? Lots of questions...

Rembrandt, 

The Sage, which can be had for somewhere between $129 to $149 depending on the source, is one to consider. If you prefer a more target oriented bow, models like the Samick Polaris and the Greatree Mohegan are worth a look, as they're longer, and slightly cheaper. They don't go up into the higher weights, but they both approach or go to 40# with the heaviest limbs. If you prefer a metal riser bow, the Martin Jaguar or the PSE Kingfisher are around the same price as the Sage. Between the two, the Jaguar that I shot was smoother at a long draw, but the Kingfisher has a good track record for toughness (it is a clunky bow, however...not much to look at).

Cheers,

Patrick


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## Largo (Dec 7, 2011)

I have had my sage 40# for a few weeks. Im still having trouble shooting it. Its been 12 years since I used a traditional bow. ANy advice on sighting?
I am shooting 29inch xx75 eastons. My fathers 50# Martin got me thinking about a recurve. I shoot off the ledge as we call it here. No rest but a pad and leather.
Hope to get to hunt with it next year. Already have a dozen arrows ready for the hunt.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I've pretty much decided on the Sage...heard alot of good things about the bow with some very good reviews. I have about a month to really make up my mind so I'll do some more research. The Sage fits my wants right now, price and useability..........


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## firewood (Sep 25, 2008)

thorwulfx
Nice review and video of the Sage. Looks like a good recurve to get back into it with for not a whole lot of money. 40# sounds about right even for hunting. Think I'll just get the Flemish string (B50) to start with, along with some other things. From what I've read, and there's a lot out there, the Sage is a good deal and will, yes, fight above it's weight class. Dealt w/3Rivers before and will no doubt go there. Thanks for the good visual and insightful info.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Largo, 

There are a number of ways to go at aiming a traditional bow. On one side, there is instinctive shooting, where there is no real conscious aiming at all. You simply draw back the bow, look at the spot where the arrow should hit, and release. This requires your brain to make the calculations as to how to make the arrow go where it's going. It works for some people quite well, especially at short to moderate ranges. Learning to shoot this way requires a lot of repetition (as almost all your methods will). 

The next way is called Gap aiming. Essentially, you use the arrow as a visual plane or "sight", then put the plane/tip of the arrow on the target at the gap that will put the arrow where it needs to go. On shorter range shots, you will be holding below the intended target. It is possible with some bows that you may be offsetting to one side or another in the windage as well, though we try to eliminate that need with arrow tuning. At long ranges, you'll raise your arrow to, or even over the target, to allow the arrow to "fall" where it needs to go. This is a popular method of aiming, and can slowly bleed into an instinctive shot sequence as you become very familiar with a particular bow shooting from a known distance.

Other aiming methods include "point of aim", where you know that there is a gap between where your arrow needs to be aimed and where it must hit, and you aim directly at a spot that will represent that gap. So, if you know that you need to aim 8 inches below the bull's eye to hit it, you could make a little mark on the target at that location and aim at that.

Finally one can stringwalk or face walk. these are advanced techniques, where you always shoot "point on" (or as close as realistically possible) to the intended point of impact, and either change your anchor point (face walking) or your grip point on the string (stringwalking). All these distances have to be proven with testing while using a particular bow set up, but can be very accurate at long distances, as our ability to hold over or under, especially by a lot, is fallible. That's the best I can do on that one, given my limited knowledge and the scope of an AT post. Many on here have much greater sage advice than this. It may be wise to go ahead and read a book or two. One of the regular posters, who goes by the AT handle Viper1, has very wide and deep knowledge about all of this stuff, and he's generally willing to help people out.

Firewood, 

Thanks! The laws in many locales require somewhere between 35 and 40# for hunting large game animals. Depending on your draw length and what sort of arrows you are flinging with it, I suspect that it would prove effective. Of course, shot placement is all important with a light bow (or any hunting weapon, for that matter). If you tried it out and found that you felt the need for extra pop, additional limbs are only around $70. I am going to be testing the fast flight plus string from 3Rivers in the next little while, and I hope to be able to inform you as to the performance of that string, as opposed to the stock one. While the dacron flemish string will be prettier than the endless loop stock string, I don't believe that there will be any significant change in performance. I'm led to believe that the modern bow string materials will produce an additional 5-10 fps, with all other things being equal. If so, then the addition of said string would be very much like adding an inch to your draw or like getting a "free" handful of extra pounds of draw weight. Initially, I told myself I didn't care much about a few fps, but when you break it down in such a way as to say that I could shoot a 40# bow and get 45# speed, that does become tantalizing. 

Cheers,

Patrick


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Largo said:


> I have had my sage 40# for a few weeks. Im still having trouble shooting it. Its been 12 years since I used a traditional bow. ANy advice on sighting?
> .


Assuming tuning/form is fairly solid, then start at 5 yards and dont move back (people are eager to get started and start shooting at unrealistic distances) till you can shoot a good 3" group and only move back a couple of yards and repeat, you just keep buiding and staying close within your comfort zone, if you push too hard/far your form will suffer. It only takes a few weeks before you can shoot good groups at 20y and a few months to get decent groups at 30 & 40 yards.

I do 'walkback' shooting one arrow at each distance 5y, 10y, 15y etc, this builds a good visual image of how the bow shoots at al these ranges, and out to 50y I can shoot good groups and still respectable groups to 70 yards. When doing this at the begining I suggest doing 2 yards at a time, and a good way to maintain focus is to play it like a game and see how far you get before missing, when you miss a shot you go back to haf your distance (i.e. 30y go back to 15y) this keeps you in your comfort zone while also extending it a little at a time, it also keeps you flowing at easy distances and working more at your weaker distances and it's FUN to do.

Hope this helps


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

Yes Patrick, I believe your findings are correct. These bows have a good tiller which I think goes a long way in the bows shootablity. Never tried fastflight, I've had a custom flemish string on it that was nice to look at, but the string that came with it performs better, so thats what my sage has now. I did have to twist the stock string a little more but thats okay, it works fine. scout4


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Lots of good info on here and thats good for us returnees or newbies. In my younger days, I got to shoot well enough by way of repetition and instinctive techniques. I would look at the target and come up or down till I felt I was on and then released. Coming up caused some problems for awhile, as it caused target panic but coming down seemed to lessen that problem.......


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

rembrandt, I've changed the sage limbs onto my polaris and set the polaris limbs into that sage riser. Worked just fine, same limb pockets. scout4


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

The Sage is often referred to as a starter bow,ect. As your review pointed out, the cosmetic appeal is not as good as higher priced bows.
But, the function of the bow is as good and sometimes better than some of the custom recurves I've had. Most of the time higher cost equals higher quality but not always, the Sage is one of those exceptions...shoots a lot better than the price reflects. The Polaris is another bow that shoots really great regardless of price. Thanks for the review, glad you gave a solid review without any pre-concieved bias. Having been down the road of high-dollar bows, I am always glad to see someone pass a long solid info to those that may be newbies to the recurve and longbow world.
I'm by no means knocking custom bows at all,no, I'm not an expert or a coach but after 36 years of archery I've come to the hard learned lesson that 95% of it is the shooter....if I could just get that 1 bow that fits me
Yeah, I'm a recovering bow-a-holic. You can get a lot of good advice here and other archery sites but it all comes down to what works for easch individual.
Thanks for the great review.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Steve, 

Thanks for jumping in there. Very good suggestions.

Scout,

I just put a fast flight string on, and am beginning to test it. So far (no silencers), the bow seems to have a fairly string preference for my heavy aluminum arrows when using the fast flight. I haven't chrono'd it yet to see what kind of speeds it's producing, and the mark one eyeball is not really telling me much. I did like that I only had to put about eight twists in the string to get it up to a reasonable brace height, though. More to come. Also good to know that you can trade the limbs between the Polaris and the Sage. I suppose that it would primarily allow you to get the Sage a little longer, if you used the longest of the Polaris limbs. Did you try shooting it that way?

Curve, 

Glad you liked the review. I tried to cover the bases and give some realistic info. I am certainly not an expert or pro shooter, but I think there's too few informative reviews out there, and figured I'd start changing that, one bow at a time. I think the Sage could do very well for a lot of people. I would suppose that you could hand it to most good recurve shooters, and it would perform well for them, once they had it tuned up to their liking. The "Starter Bow" label sure doesn't have to mean anything negative. I've shot the Sage for many hours already, and I never had the slightest inclination to sit down and eat worms as a result. It's a nice shooting bow. If I get out of the way, anyhow. 

Cheers,

Patrick


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

Patrick, sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were spamming...it was the wee hours of new year's day and I was completely sober.

Scout, that's good to know about the Polaris limbs fitting the Sage. A guy at the club needs low poundage limbs for a Samick Squall, but I don't think any others fit that one... anyone know?


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

More footage from New Years:


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## okbow68 (Jul 9, 2009)

Great review


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Fun to watch....thanks


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Update: the fast flight string...yeah, worth it. Bare string (loud), I'm picking up 10 or more fps at all arrow weights. Actually picked up 16 fps at one arrow weight. I'll be testing further next weekend, but if you're on the fence about whether or not to pop for the fast flight material, it DOES work. My heaviest arrow picked up almost 4 KE, just by changing the string.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Can you tell me what the cost of the fast flight string runs? I'm getting all worked up over a new traditional bow and I want to get the most I can out of it.......Wasn't anything like these bows back in the 50s and 60s. Bear made a good bow but they cost 70 to 90 dollars and that was expensive, then.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rembrandt,

The string I got was the fast flight plus flemish twist string from 3Rivers. It was around $15, only about two dollars more than their B-50 flemish. There are fast flight strings around that are cheaper than this, I think, if a few bucks one way or another is a concern. Don't get me wrong--the stock string shoots fine, and the bow is a good value as delivered. I am just seeing significantly enhanced speeds with the modern string material. With heavy arrows (511 grains), the bow is still reasonably quiet, even without any string dampening. To shoot the lighter arrows, you'd certainly have to install something to kill the vibes, though. I'll have an apples-to-apples breakdown in a week or so, so we can see what sort of speed loss will happen when I quiet the bow down again.

As to the money, I would imagine that $129 today is probably less money than 70-90 was back in the day, when you correct for inflation. The cheapest Bear I know of (MSRP) today is $329. It's all about perceived value, I guess. For some, their $1500 custom came cheap. For others...

I try to think about it in terms of how much fun I will have with the item over the course of its service life. In that respect, most of my trads end up seeming like good investments.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

The limbs from sage an the 62-66 inch polaris are the same length. The 66 inch polaris riser is longer. Yep, shot the polaris with sage limbs on it. Worked good! scout4


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

thorwulfx said:


> Rembrandt,
> 
> The string I got was the fast flight plus flemish twist string from 3Rivers. It was around $15, only about two dollars more than their B-50 flemish. There are fast flight strings around that are cheaper than this, I think, if a few bucks one way or another is a concern. Don't get me wrong--the stock string shoots fine, and the bow is a good value as delivered. I am just seeing significantly enhanced speeds with the modern string material. With heavy arrows (511 grains), the bow is still reasonably quiet, even without any string dampening. To shoot the lighter arrows, you'd certainly have to install something to kill the vibes, though. I'll have an apples-to-apples breakdown in a week or so, so we can see what sort of speed loss will happen when I quiet the bow down again.
> 
> ...


I guess I'm still in the compound mode cause I think everything costs $100 up. $15 sounds like a winner to me and I'll get one and try it out when I settle on the arrows I want. What is a good string silencer and do they slow down the arrow some?


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

scout4 said:


> The limbs from sage an the 62-66 inch polaris are the same length. The 66 inch polaris riser is longer. Yep, shot the polaris with sage limbs on it. Worked good! scout4


Thats good to know cause I might have a number of the Trad bows before its over!


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## Buck13 (Dec 13, 2011)

rembrandt said:


> What is a good string silencer...?


My Sage came from Twig Archery with rubber "cat whisker" type string silencers held on with small black zip ties. They seem to work well. It makes much less string noise than my spousal critter's ILF bow without silencers.

(Warning: newbie posting:binkybaby If you have a bicycle inner tube, you could make a pile of these: cut a 4" section out of the tube and slit open. Cut lengthwise to make a rectangle about 1" wide (not sure of best width.) Using a ruler and razor blade, cut many slits lengthwise in the resulting rectangle, starting and ending 1/4" from each end, spacing as uniformly as possible about 1/16" apart. Wrap around string and bind with zip tie, or a few wraps of thread and a tiny drop of glue on the thread (lighter but trickier to keep from gluing all to string). Trim ends off the rectangle with scissors to liberate the bundle of whiskers.

I think mine are attached at 1/4 of the unsupported string length, which is a number I've seen in other posts, IIRC. That should do a good job of dampening all oscillations that are not lambda = 1/4n. I've seen pictures that look more like they are attached at 1/6th from the end. That would be a little worse for dampening full-length waves and lambda = 1/2, a little better for lambda = 1/3, but would get something of all that are not 1/6n. Should be very slightly less velocity-robbing, but maybe not significant? Looks a little different, your choice if that is good or bad.

Since Patrick has a chrono and likes to experiment, I'll bet the data on speed loss will show up here eventually! :icon_salut:


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## Buck13 (Dec 13, 2011)

scout4 said:


> Yep, shot the polaris with sage limbs on it. Worked good! scout4


Cool! I thought those limb pockets looked very similar. 

I wonder if the non-pocket Samick limbs (Red Stag, Phoenix II, Phantom, Nighthawk, Squall) are also interchangeable (among those bows, NOT with Sage/Polaris). They look pretty similar. Sorry for topic drift.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Scout, 

That's a great thing to know in terms of the Polaris limbs working. That gives you the ability to go lighter, if you need to, and the limbs are about ten bucks cheaper than Sage limbs. Good find.

Rembrandt,

The upgrade appears to be a good value proposition. Many say that the fast flight strings tend to last longer, too. I can tell you that there is less initial string creep than Dacron, less than a half an inch total. There are a great number of different things that can silence the string. Rubber, yarn, fur...in the videos above, I was using nylon string. I will be back with you next week with data about speed changes and effectiveness. The MOST effective and efficient way to quiet down a bow is by using a heavy arrow, though. Any string silencer is going to load the string, so that the bow will have to accelerate a mass that is in addition to the arrow weight, and that will sap at least a little energy. A heavy arrow will allow the bow to exert more of its stored energy. This makes bows quieter, smoother, and more forgiving at short to moderate range. For long range shooting, you'll see much faster arrow drop, but most of us end up shooting at 25 yards or less most of the time.

Buck,

No real topic drift. I have wondered if the different limbs would work that way, too. 

Cheers,

Patrick


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

thorwulfx said:


> Scout,
> 
> That's a great thing to know in terms of the Polaris limbs working. That gives you the ability to go lighter, if you need to, and the limbs are about ten bucks cheaper than Sage limbs. Good find.
> 
> ...


thanks Patrick, for some really good info......I was also wondering how you did the video with the music? I have a one-man show at Heritage Hall here in Talladega, AL that will hang for 2 months and I want to have a video of that show. I do Native American and western art and this is gonna be my best show I've ever done. Can you help me on how I get the music, lettering etc.? thanks Pat!


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Curve1 said:


> The Sage is often referred to as a starter bow,ect. As your review pointed out, the cosmetic appeal is not as good as higher priced bows.
> But, the function of the bow is as good and sometimes better than some of the custom recurves I've had. Most of the time higher cost equals higher quality but not always, the Sage is one of those exceptions...shoots a lot better than the price reflects. The Polaris is another bow that shoots really great regardless of price. Thanks for the review, glad you gave a solid review without any pre-concieved bias. Having been down the road of high-dollar bows, I am always glad to see someone pass a long solid info to those that may be newbies to the recurve and longbow world.
> I'm by no means knocking custom bows at all,no, I'm not an expert or a coach but after 36 years of archery I've come to the hard learned lesson that 95% of it is the shooter....if I could just get that 1 bow that fits me
> Yeah, I'm a recovering bow-a-holic. You can get a lot of good advice here and other archery sites but it all comes down to what works for easch individual.
> Thanks for the great review.


Thanks for the info on the Sage. I will start with that bow and maybe buy another, higher quality priced bow down the road. Right now I'm just looking forward to getting another recurve and see what I can do again.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Good video... only comment I have is the "snap shooting", but you have already stated that you tend to do that. My concern with the Sage is the facts you post in your review, if it is indeed that slow.....

Observed Draw Weight: 44# to my Draw Length

Speed: 

378 grain arrow: 165 fps average (high 169) 8.6 grains per pound

423 grain arrow: 153 fps average 9.6 grains per pound

511 grain arrow: 145 fps average 11.6 grains per pound 


Now I think it is a nice beginners bow for the price, but pretty darn slow. My Bigfoot Sasquatch recurve shooting a 420Gr arrow is still spitting them out at 200FPS and that is 46# at my DL. My Sapphire Hawk (longbow) at 52# is cranking them out at 207 with the same arrow....


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

I also wondered if the limbs are interchangable with the other samick takedowns. From what I can figure the red stag limbs may fit the sage, or even sage limbs fit the red stag riser? If so the sage limbs would have to be drilled for an alinement pin. scout4


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rembrandt,

I use the MediaImpression software that came with my Kodak video camera. It's very simple, and uses a "timeline view". You just put video clips in, edit them to start and stop where you want them to, add text frames, and that's the basic stuff. Adding transitions is a one step process, as is adding music. You'll just need to have the pieces in question ripped to .mp3. Each video suite uses a slightly different mechanism. I bought a more expensive piece of software, but found it too cumbersome, so I went back to the simple one listed above. The main thing is shooting a lot of footage and having the patience to edit it down to just the best few minutes.

Rsarns,

I've always been an impatient shooter, with guns and bows alike. I am working to slow down with every session now, but up until this season, I never really paid much attention to some of the finer points of archery. I just liked to shoot. The fast shot cycle led to a lot of inconsistency on my part, and I understand that now, so I'm trying to remedy the problem. It's hard working against an ingrained pattern, though.

As to the speed, it's possible that your mileage may vary, but this is a maple/glass limb bow with a dacron string and string silencers on it. According to the bows I've tested thus far, it's pretty typical for the breed, and the shooter. I shot each arrow weight a dozen times, threw out the high and low numbers, and took what was left, so it should be accurate. 

I tested the bow yesterday with a fast flight string, and found that it gained considerable velocity, especially with the heavier arrows. For instance, the speed went up 12 fps with the 511 grain arrow. Though that's a considerable bump in performance, I don't see any evidence that, even with the best tune, string, long draw shooter, and release, this bow would hit 200 fps at a safe arrow weight. In fact, it felt clear to me that the bow preferred the heavy arrow, and that the lightest arrow was wasting stored energy by twanging to beat the band.

I don't have any experience with a recurve hitting speeds you indicated. I was impressed when my Super Diablo hit 176 fps on dacron with a 423 grain arrow. If my basic inference about the velocity increase of fast flight holds true, that would put that bow design up into the high 180s, but that's my fastest bow thus far. Until recently, I had assumed that the 190s were probably the edge of the performance envelope when it came to anything but carbon-backed bows. I can only take my hat off to the bowyers you mentioned for their limb design. I can only say that the bow doesn't feel slow in my hands, and it probably won't to most shooters who are not accustomed to top-tier performance like what you've mentioned. In conclusion, I'll put in that, if you're just learning and plinking around, ultimate performance may not be a strong motivational factor. I got the bow to be a knockaround bow, one that I could throw in the trunk and take it anywhere. For that purpose, I can't find any fault here.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## whitefinger (Jan 4, 2012)

Thank you for this review. I decided recently that I wanted to get into traditional archery, but was a little dismayed about this initial costs. After some research I'm pretty sure I want the Sage, although I'm considering the Polaris too.

As a complete newbie, I'm wondering what else I need to buy in addition to the bow. I'll obviously need arrows, but what else?


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## scout4 (May 18, 2010)

In your last video Patrick, it seems like that greatree mohegan is shooting as fast and with less noise or vibration than your sage. Good video Man! Thanks! scout4


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Whitefinger,

The Polaris or the Greatree Mohegan are also good options, especially if you want a longer bow, or a lighter draw weight than is easily found with the Sage. Those bows are more target-oriented, and work better with an elevated rest, rather than shooting off the shelf.

You'll need: 

The Bow
A Bow Stringer
An Arm guard
A finger tab or bow glove
A quiver for the arrows
Arrows (plus field tips and extra nocks...they break)
A safe place to shoot 
(if shooting in an open area) A target backstop and target block/bag
A good instructional book or video

3Rivers archery puts the Sage out with a full kit, where it will take care of all but the arrows, the target, and the book. I would say that the cost for the whole kit'nkaboodle would be somewhere around $300, with everything I mentioned above. This can go up if you start looking at the really fancy arrows, as they can be up to $150/dozen (which is a little crazy, to me).

You'll get a little "cost creep" as you begin to find out some of the things you need/want. Expect to drop an additional $100 bucks in the first few months, as you begin accumulating stuff like extra arrows, more books and DVDs, fletching equipment, nock point wrenches, lucky shooting hats...

I will warn you that the whole thing is a road to madness. If you have a particular personality, you'll get totally addicted to shooting/thinking about shooting/messing around with the bow/buying new bows/making the darned things... Just fair warning.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Fortunatly, some of this stuff I already have. I have a glove, quiver even a feather cutter. I will get shafts and put the feathers on along with the tips and nocks. Do the nocks come with the Trad Arrows? I also have two good targets for outdoor shooting. The Sage bow and the arrows will be my biggest cost for a spell.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Scout, 

The Mohegan is a quick little bow. My cousin draws to his jaw, and that gives him a few inches on me. That's probably enough to make up the @12 fps difference between the two bows with the same arrow. It was quieter, but I think a lot of that has to do with being at 12+ grains per pound, rather than 8.something. On target, the Sage still appeared to have more energy, and the trajectory appeared to be flatter. I did not have Mike shoot through the chrono, so I don't have any hard data as to what kind of speed he was getting.

I'm still in the tuning process with the Sage, and I didn't spend a huge amount of time tweaking and fiddling with the stock string. I suspect that it would have quieted down some, had I raised the brace height a half inch or so. The issue was that the stock string was longer than I felt was ideal, and it took a lot of twist just to get it to the minimum, to the point that the string was starting to wad up at rest. I suspect that I'll be able tune the bow to shoot better and quieter with this fast flight. It looks like I may be shooting the heavy 2016 aluminum arrows with it, and that does a lot of good all by itself to keep the bow quiet and friendly.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rembrandt, 

*Most* arrows will come with nocks and inserts. Here and there, you'll see some that sell them a la carte, but that's pretty rare.

Cheers,

Patrick


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## whitefinger (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks for the info, Patrick, it helps a lot. At first I thought a bow alone would cost me ~$400 to $500 if I wanted a decent one, so I was glad to discover the Sage (and others) that were more reasonable as a starter. I could definitely see myself getting addicted to this stuff, but I'm sure the wife will keep me in check. :wink:


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Nothing against the bow, I have suggested it to a lot of the people wanting to try out a recurve around my club. Its a nice bow for the money, and speed is not everything. Heck I have my ILF bow limbs backed out to 30# (about 36 at my DL) and shooting 650 gr arrows for indoors.. you can shoot, get a drink and then watch the arrow hit the target at 20 yards... LOL 

Now I will say that both the Sapphire Hawk (carbon backed limbs) and the Bigfoot (carbon backed limbs) were built for performance and are a lot more expensive, so I'd say the Sage is a pretty good buy for the money! Great review and video.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

rsarns said:


> Nothing against the bow, I have suggested it to a lot of the people wanting to try out a recurve around my club. Its a nice bow for the money, and speed is not everything. Heck I have my ILF bow limbs backed out to 30# (about 36 at my DL) and shooting 650 gr arrows for indoors.. you can shoot, get a drink and then watch the arrow hit the target at 20 yards... LOL
> 
> Now I will say that both the Sapphire Hawk (carbon backed limbs) and the Bigfoot (carbon backed limbs) were built for performance and are a lot more expensive, so I'd say the Sage is a pretty good buy for the money! Great review and video.


Speaking of slow....I've been to quite a number of long range shoots with my Quigley 45-70 and I shot a ram at 400yds and we all were lying down with short cross sticks. I got the elevation right on my sight and fired.......I took the rifle off the cross sticks and laid it down and then the Ram wavered and fell over. It took that long but let me tell ya, I'm tired of not being able to see the arrow streak toward the target. With the wheel bows the arrow gets there so fast you don't have time to enjoy the flight......


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

thorwulfx said:


> Rembrandt,
> 
> *Most* arrows will come with nocks and inserts. Here and there, you'll see some that sell them a la carte, but that's pretty rare.
> 
> ...


Same as with the arrows for the wheelers! Thats fine and thanks!


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I shot a Sage for the first time a few days back. Great little bow, smooth if not terribly fast.

LAS will sell risers and limbs separately, so you could get a longer Polaris riser with a set of Sage limbs which might give you the best of both worlds. A 66" bow with FF capable limbs.

-Grant


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

grantmac said:


> I shot a Sage for the first time a few days back. Great little bow, smooth if not terribly fast.
> 
> LAS will sell risers and limbs separately, so you could get a longer Polaris riser with a set of Sage limbs which might give you the best of both worlds. A 66" bow with FF capable limbs.
> 
> -Grant


Grant, 

That does sound like a heck of an idea. I just wonder if the Polaris riser would bear up well with the heaviest of the Sage limbs. Then again, the length would take a few pounds away from the max draw, so it might be just fine. Hmmm...

Cheers,

Patrick


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

thorwulfx said:


> Grant,
> 
> That does sound like a heck of an idea. I just wonder if the Polaris riser would bear up well with the heaviest of the Sage limbs. Then again, the length would take a few pounds away from the max draw, so it might be just fine. Hmmm...
> 
> ...



The Polaris is actually a little cheaper than the Sage and I assume the riser on the Polaris will be cheaper also. I went over to LAS and looked at the Polaris. Which riser is the better looking? 

Samick Polaris Takedown Recurve BowAn ideal entry-level target bow, the Samick Polaris is both affordable and versatile. Available right and left handed.

The bow is composed of White Oak and Walnut in the handle, and Hard Maple limbs. 
It comes in a variety of lengths and poundages to suit almost any archer. 

See below for sizes and pricing. 



48" - 10/12#, 14/16#, 18/20#, 22/24# * - $97.00
54" - 12#, 14/16#, 18/20#, 22/25#, 26/29# * - $104.00
62" - 13# to 36# * - $109.00
66" - 13# to 36# * - $115.00
* There may be a slight variance of one pound in the bow’s actual strength.
Detail of Polaris limb bolt
Detail of Polaris tip
Comes with full shelf and string set-up preparation.
Ready to shoot right out of the box!
I'm gonna go back and see what the Polaris riser itself would cost.....


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

The Sage riser definitely looks better, but getting a longer bow with those excellent Sage limbs could make for a great package. I'm curious whether the risers are actually built differently or whatnot.

-Grant


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I went over to LAS and asked them about the Sage limbs on a Polaris riser and I haven't heard from them as yet. The two will cost about $10.00 more than a Sage by itself. You would get an added two inches however. Would the 2" make that much difference?


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

rembrandt said:


> Speaking of slow....I've been to quite a number of long range shoots with my Quigley 45-70 and I shot a ram at 400yds and we all were lying down with short cross sticks. I got the elevation right on my sight and fired.......I took the rifle off the cross sticks and laid it down and then the Ram wavered and fell over. It took that long but let me tell ya, I'm tired of not being able to see the arrow streak toward the target. With the wheel bows the arrow gets there so fast you don't have time to enjoy the flight......


Funny as I own a 45-70 Shilo Sharps.... have shot a lot of rock chucks at 3-400 yards with guys shooting .223's and 22-250's, 270's etc.... had a rock chuck run back into its hole on a cliff, stuck its head out just enough and I shot... seemed like an eternity at 400 yards but the hole exploded... LOL Everyone wanted to shoot it after that.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

thorwulfx said:


> Hey there, AT folks:
> 
> I've done up a review and video of my Samick Sage. Please check it out by clicking on the link below.
> 
> ...


 Loved the music..... but there is a controversy brewing... The real world numbers with these carbon arrows, and as stated by the author of this review, suggest the heavier arrows are more efficient.. I'm not sure but don't efficeint suggest better arrow flight and penetration?.... I mean I'm just thinking out loud here... but the other thing I DID notice, the KE calculated... 23... is more than sufficeint for cut on contact two blades absolutely.... :thumbs_up

Much Aloha... :beer:


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rattus, 

Ohhh Boy...did I say the wrong thing? I'd rather not get pulled into that fracas. By efficient, for the record, I only meant that the bow could transmit more of its stored energy to the arrow, such that the velocity squared x mass equation added up to greater kinetic energy, with the side benefit of the bow making less noise, which I take (in a non-scientific way only) to mean that less energy was wasted on vibration loss. I have no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, in regard to damage on target between the two arrows. For me, during the testing session in question, the heavier arrows seemed to fly better and be a little more forgiving, but these are in no way universal or last-word-on-the-subject proclamations. 

My only foray into generalization is to say that heavier arrows tend to be quieter on the shot for a given state of tune, and will, within the realm of reason, wring a bit more energy out of same. They will also shorten your point-on distance and reduce your gap a bit, if you aim in this way. The "big slow projectile" vs. "small fast projectile" battle has been going on for a long time, and nothing I can say here will do anything but provoke a big discussion. I would suppose the only real winner is the unstated choice "C", "big, fast projectile". Even then, we get into overkill conversations about wasted energy and overpenetration. There's no perfect answer.

I will share at the last that just changing to a fast flight string bumped the KE up to 27+ with the heavier arrow (with no string silencer, and at an "in progress" brace height). I think everyone can get behind that particular development....

Cheers,

Patrick


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

thorwulfx said:


> Rattus,
> 
> Ohhh Boy...did I say the wrong thing? I'd rather not get pulled into that fracas. By efficient, for the record, I only meant that the bow could transmit more of its stored energy to the arrow, such that the velocity squared x mass equation added up to greater kinetic energy, with the side benefit of the bow making less noise, which I take (in a non-scientific way only) to mean that less energy was wasted on vibration loss. I have no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, in regard to damage on target between the two arrows. For me, during the testing session in question, the heavier arrows seemed to fly better and be a little more forgiving, but these are in no way universal or last-word-on-the-subject proclamations.
> 
> ...


:grin: Patrick... Not to worry... I takes any opportunity.... The chinese perfected it with water drops..... 

Much Aloha... :beer:


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I don't know if its the music or the bow but I like to watch this video!


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

How did you get the music in the background? I seem to have lost your post on this !


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

Rembrandt, 

It depends upon what program you're using to edit the video. On the one I use (Kodak MediaImpression), I just click "add music" and point the program to an .mp3 file on my computer. Some are a bit more complex than that.

Patrick


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

thorwulfx said:


> Rembrandt,
> 
> It depends upon what program you're using to edit the video. On the one I use (Kodak MediaImpression), I just click "add music" and point the program to an .mp3 file on my computer. Some are a bit more complex than that.
> 
> Patrick


thanks for the info.....I'm gettting the urge to do the movie of my art show and I want to add some Indian flute music to the background. I hope you don't mind me TTT with your video....I love to watch you shoot the SAGE, now that I have one and I think others will enjoy it also. And to add, I see where Kodak is filing bankruptcy.......


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