# odd arrow fletching direction



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

gibson -

The first arrows (cock feather perpendicular to the bow) are correct for stickbows.
The second ones, (cock feather up) are typically used for compounds. The differences are due to the types of rests being typically used, and to some extent the greater flexing of the arrow (paradox) from a stickbow.

If your arrow have push-in nocks (as opposed to glue on), you can turn them so the cock feather is perpendicular to the bow. 
If they are glue on, you'd have to cut them off and re-glue nocks in the correct orientation (or replace the arrows with the correct ones.)

More than you wanted to know, eh?

Viper1 out.


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

For a trad bow, odd (cock) feather is typically perpendicular, either in or out, to bow. Cock feather vertical/up/parallel to bow is standard orientation for compound bow.


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

nope, not more then i wanted to know. as long as i can wrap my head around it im good.

i will check at lunch about the knocks to be shure but i beleive there glued in.

how difficult is it to get them off? you said cut, that doesnt sound good.... i prefer not to have to return them... again... its 26 miles one way (i was passing by the first time)


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

if the arrows are new aluminum or carbon- you should be able to twist them...sometimes it's tight and you need a nock tool, pliers, something in the groove...just to get enough leverage to twist. When they start twisting, you'll be able to grab the nock and pull it out.

Cutting the nocks off is easy on tapered/swaged shafts-- you simply break/cut it off- I use wire cutters


if the nock slides into the shaft- it is probably NOT glued in.


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

Another option, if the nocks are glued in (hopefully they are not), is to strip off the fletchings and re-fletch - if you have the jig and supplies to do so. What kind of arrow is it?


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

As long as you are shooting _feathers_ and not plastic vanes the orientation of the feathers relative to the bow probably doesn't matter much. You can get into debates on the best orientation of the cock (odd) feather, but in my opinion it's a minor point.


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

i Will try to break them loose on my lunch break, i will try it on the "extra" arrow first, hopefully i wont bend the arrow trying to twist it.

For future reference, what should i look for when trying to find arrows? 

These are not feathers... i havent seen any with feathers yet for sale. in fact, both my local archery shop, and dicks sporting goods, neither has Longbows or seems very knowledgable on anything past compound... the archery shop had 2 recurves, and everything esle was compounds. im still hunting for a knowledgable store


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

This is just my opinion, but if you are relatively new to traditional archery you _definitely_ want feathers on your arrows, not plastic vanes. It's very easy (almost inevitable) to get some contact between the fletching and the bow or your hand and that contact will affect the flight of your arrow...much more with plastic vanes than with feathers. 

That said it is possible to shoot vanes out of recurves and longbows but most that do use elevated rests and carefully tune to get the best fletching clearance. There is some debate about this, but theoretically you can actually get better fletching clearance by shooting the cock (odd) fletch _in_, not out in the usual way. 

It's going to be inconvenient for you but I would try to find somebody to refletch your arrows with feathers or return them and buy some with feathers somewhere else. They should be able to handle that at any archery shop. If you don't have any luck there, any arrow questions will be handled well by Lancaster or 3Rivers archery, both are familiar with stickbows.


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## xxxJakkxxx (Apr 17, 2014)

I've shot with cock vane up, left and right without any noticeable difference. The only time I had any problem was shooting vanes off of the shelf instead of a rest. Right now I'm using turbonocks that make it hard to guess which direction the vanes will be when they pass the riser since they get a lot of spin so I don't even worry about it. They're all oriented the same way so I am happy. I figure, as long as they're all the same, I'll have no problems.


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## turbonockguy (Mar 4, 2013)

xxxJakkxxx said:


> I've shot with cock vane up, left and right without any noticeable difference. The only time I had any problem was shooting vanes off of the shelf instead of a rest. Right now I'm using turbonocks that make it hard to guess which direction the vanes will be when they pass the riser since they get a lot of spin so I don't even worry about it. They're all oriented the same way so I am happy. I figure, as long as they're all the same, I'll have no problems.


 If you are using the Turbonock T-4 with glue on fletching, the cock feather will rotate 45 Degrees to the riser. If you put some baby powder on the fletching then shoot you will see if you are having contact. 

Conventional straight nocks will show virtually no rotation to the riser. 
Here is a slow motion video showing the difference.






If you are having contact . just rotate the nock until there is none.


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## xxxJakkxxx (Apr 17, 2014)

turbonockguy said:


> If you are using the Turbonock T-4 with glue on fletching, the cock feather will rotate 45 Degrees to the riser. If you put some baby powder on the fletching then shoot you will see if you are having contact.
> 
> Conventional straight nocks will show virtually no rotation to the riser.
> Here is a slow motion video showing the difference.
> ...


 I just make sure they're all the same instead of doing that fancy math stuff. It's been working well so far. I've destroyed 1 turbonock and the arrow it was attached to and damaged another turbonock in the 2 shooting sessions I've had with them. Consistent enough for my liking, though I really wish I'd stop breaking nocks.

There was actually a pretty good discussion on cock feather orientation a while back.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2253545

**edit**
Just thought about it and I nock the arrow on my string at cock vane down. That means that I shoot with the cock vane about 45 degrees out so almost hen vane up.


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

I can't get the knocks off... I hate to, but I might have to take the long drive to return them.

Any other suggestions first?


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## xxxJakkxxx (Apr 17, 2014)

gibson_es said:


> I can't get the knocks off... I hate to, but I might have to take the long drive to return them.
> 
> Any other suggestions first?


 My arrows originally had the nocks in extremely tight. So tight that I was convinced that they were glued in. Yours may just be in that tight. What all did you try for twisting them? I found that pliers worked best for me, though they did mark the nocks since I didn't use an cloth or buffer between them and the nock. 

If they are glued in, try a heat gun or hair dryer to heat up the adhesive. That should let you rotate the nock since the adhesive will not be forming a bond while liquid.


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

I am almost possitive its glue, it also looks like they go over the shaft not it. there simi clear so you can see through them a little.

I used plyers with a towel to keep from marking the knock... it still marked the knock, the arrow eventually would turn in my hand. 

when i get home i will try my wifes blow dryer to heat it up. and see if that does the trick.

They have some carbon arrows on sale 2 boxes for $50 when $30 per box of you just get one (they were not on sale when i got these or i would just got 2 boxes of those instead of one box of these) so if i MUST drive out there again, i will look at those, between my return and my $10 gift card they gave me. it wouldnt be too much more out of pocket. still not feather fletchings but might be a better arrow, these i have now are aluminum. i had the guy check the carbon arrows and said the "odd" feather is on the side perpendicular to the bow.... i would check it myself before purchasing though....


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

I've had nocks this tight as well - in Aluminum Gamegetters and Cabelas Stalkers. I'd have sworn they were glued in. What arrows do you have? Some arrows are more likely to have press-fit nocks than others. A pic might be helpful. I've had arrows where I could easily pull the press-fit nock out with my fingers, but others where I nearly destroyed a press-fit nock muscling it out with pliers (holding the arrow with a rubber jar opener). You shouldn't use heat on a carbon arrow. If they are aluminum, and glued-in, heat will be a good bet.


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## xxxJakkxxx (Apr 17, 2014)

gibson_es said:


> I am almost possitive its glue, it also looks like they go over the shaft not it. there simi clear so you can see through them a little.
> 
> I used plyers with a towel to keep from marking the knock... it still marked the knock, the arrow eventually would turn in my hand.
> 
> ...


 Just be sure that when you go in you get arrows that are spined properly for your setup. A good deal for a poorly performing arrow isn't a good deal. The shop should know about proper spining but some aren't as knowledgeable about trad bows so you may want to get some info on that before going back just to be safe.


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

ok. I will see what info i can find. i cant go until tomorrow anyway, and i will know after today if i will still need to.

although, these arrows may be junk for a longbow anyway. i dont know anything about what is best.

there the easton xx75 fall stalker 2216 (the extra arrow is the same but 2117)

maybe i just need to return them and get different arrows anyway. i dont wanna bother with the knocks if there still gonna be wrong for a longbow


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

If you are shooting a longbow I will emphasize that you want _feathers_, not vanes. Longbows are not cut as close to centershot (depth of shelf) and are more prone to contact than a recurve. 

Do yourself a favor, return the arrows you have and call Lancaster archery. Tell them what kind of bow you have, the poundage marked on it, your physical size, and let them advise you on arrows. The staff at a shop that doesn't deal with stickbows will do their best but they probably don't know much more about proper arrows for a traditional bow than you do.


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## martha j (May 11, 2009)

What bow & how many pounds are you pulling & how far?


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

some of this is my fault for my ignorance. i did not realize that from bow to bow its going to all be different.... (i knew from one type to another, but from one longbow, to another longbow, i figured it was the same)

the issue with the bow is this. i am using a old used 30lb fiberglass bow just to get going with. what i want is a decent longbow, at a draw weight high enough to humanely hunt with once i get to that point.

right now, i dont want to shoot this current bow much longer, so i am looking for a used bow thats super cheap but better then what i have. 

i dont want to have to purchase arrows for my current bow, then in a day, week, or month. get arrows for a new bow. and then in 3 months get more arrows, all the while my previous arrows being no good for the new bow.

not sure what to do now.


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## xxxJakkxxx (Apr 17, 2014)

There are things you can do to adjust how an arrow acts with a bow to make it fit more than just a single poundage. Things like altering weight on the front or back of the arrow or changing where you nock on the string. You may be able to get a set of arrows that will work for a few weights as you build up to your final weight and just switch when it gets to the point that they'll no longer work. I'm currently working with arrows that are slightly too stiff for my bow but it's mainly because i'm cheap, they work good enough for me and I plan on hopping up in weight eventually.


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

ok.... if Lancaster is open after 5 or 5:30 when i get off i will call and see if they can help and what it will cost me. if i can get going for around the same cost i may just return these and go that route....


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Aside from what I posted above I don't really have much advice for you and I completely understand you not wanting to spend any more money than necessary. I have a feeling that the arrows you are shooting now, aside from the feather/vane issue, are significantly too stiff for a 30# longbow and more appropriate for a bow in excess of 50# draw weight. The match between arrow/bow/shooter does not have to be precise for learning purposes, but I think what you have is far enough off that it might be a problem. 

The thing is you are doing a good thing by starting with a light bow and 30# is often a recommended starting point by experienced coaches. I'm sure they would set you up with different arrows though. Unfortunately the odds of you finding an arrow that will work with your present bow, and also with whatever bow you buy next (assuming you go up in weight) is slim.

So what are your options? 

- If you continue to shoot the bow you have now you're going to need some more appropriate arrows. In aluminum (less expensive than carbon) I think something like a 1716 will work better, once again fletched with feathers. Maybe someone with more experience with bows in that weight range will add some information, or call Lancaster. It is unlikely these arrows will work with a hunting weight bow.

- Hold off until you find a bow that is more suitable for hunting before you spend any more money. Going this route will require you to go up in weight a bit, but assuming you aren't hunting anything bigger than deer you don't need anything over 40# and some get by with less. Check your state regulations, sometimes there is a minimum draw weight and that would be your guide. Keep in mind that the higher the draw weight, in general the harder it is to learn how to shoot. It's a highly debatable issue but I think it's safe to say that most people gain from starting low and working up instead of jumping into a 50# bow to learn with.

- I know you are looking at longbows, and I don't know your budget, but if you could see yourself shooting a recurve the Samick Sage is a good starter bow and you can get a new one for $140:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/samick-sage-takedown-recurve-bow.html


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## gibson_es (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks for the input! i did consider a recurve, that same one in fact, its what the two recurves my local shop has is.

but for reasons im not even sure i know myself, i want a longbow. thats what has really always fascinated me. 

there is a used bow i am looking at now, posted in a seperate thread, that MAY be what i go with next, its $65 and thats more my range right now. i just cant figure out if its recurve, or longbow, or what. its 40# draw weight

so i will see how that plays out


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