# Carbon Express Nano Pro 1st Olympic Gold Medal!



## blademan (May 8, 2005)

they really are that good, World class.


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## Oaklandish (Mar 6, 2008)

Clutch performance by Michele indeed and a huge win for the evolution of the modern arrow. Competition is always a good thing! I have always enjoyed shooting my NP's and I can see the ad copy now: 'When only a 10 will do....'


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## archerynooblol (Nov 6, 2010)

Oaklandish said:


> Clutch performance by Michele indeed and a huge win for the evolution of the modern arrow. Competition is always a good thing! I have always enjoyed shooting my NP's and I can see the ad copy now: 'When only a 10 will do....'


Have you been shooting them recently? :wink:


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## Matt Zumbo (Jan 15, 2011)

I am very proud to be part of the Carbon Express Recurve Pro Staff, and proud to be shooting Nano Pros. The finest arrows I have ever shot. I am so excited and proud of Michele Frangilli performance today. Congratulations Team Italy.

Matthew Zumbo


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## Blunt Arrow (Mar 2, 2006)

It's not the arrow, it's the man behind the arrow. When are you guys going to learn that !


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

*Carbon Express are great youth arrows as well.*

I agree about the arrows being first-class but not just for adults. My son shot Carbon Express Medallion 1800 XL's at U.S. Nationals. He won both the Grand National Bowman Recurve Championship and Hoyt Open. The arrows are affordable, tune easily and I maintain he couldn't have won either event without them. The photo is from the Gold Medal match, priceless.


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## Jim Colgate (Jun 12, 2012)

How are the Carbon Express Nano Pro's to tune and with forgiveness as compared to Ace's and Carbone 1.
I have Carbon Express Maxima cross bow bolts for my Skorpyd crossbow and getting well over 425fps and absolute tach drivers.

Thanks
Jim
:set1_applaud: Way to go Team USA, Silver!! Incredible match! Congrats to Italy, well done!:wav:


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

tjk009 said:


> I agree about the arrows being first-class but not just for adults. My son shot Carbon Express Medallion 1800 XL's at U.S. Nationals. He won both the Grand National Bowman Recurve Championship and Hoyt Open. The arrows are affordable, tune easily and I maintain he couldn't have won either event without them. The photo is from the Gold Medal match, priceless.
> View attachment 1424800


Agreed. My daughter switched from Jazz 1214's to the affordable and wonderful Medallion XR's and immediately went out (on her first try) and shot her next JOAD 50M achievement pin that she had been so close to earning with her aluminum arrows for months. She earned it by 30 points with her Medallion XR's, and I now have 3 of my JOAD kids using them. They are impossibly small in diameter, and super fast. 

As for the Nano Pro, I think they have only begun. Nano pro's are a premium small diameter arrow that IMO is more forgiving and easier to tune than an X10, plus you get 12 useable arrows when you pay for 12.

The margin of difference between an X10 and Nano Pro is absolutely tiny. I admit that. But for me (and Michele) the Nano Pro is the better arrow.

John


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## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> Agreed. My daughter switched from Jazz 1214's to the affordable and wonderful Medallion XR's and immediately went out (on her first try) and shot her next JOAD 50M achievement pin that she had been so close to earning with her aluminum arrows for months. She earned it by 30 points with her Medallion XR's, and I now have 3 of my JOAD kids using them. They are impossibly small in diameter, and super fast.
> 
> As for the Nano Pro, I think they have only begun. Nano pro's are a premium small diameter arrow that IMO is more forgiving and easier to tune than an X10, plus you get 12 useable arrows when you pay for 12.
> 
> ...


Limbwalker suggested the "XR" Medallion's to me in the spring. They have a variety of spine weights and point weights so you can tune, it is important for kids too. Tyler and I are both thankful for the tip.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

His scoring arrows (total score 74) tied with Jake Kaminski (3x10's; 4x9's; 1x8). What arrow was Jake shooting?


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## bownut-tl. (Sep 21, 2003)

Last I checked, Jake is still shooting X-10's


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Seattlepop said:


> His scoring arrows (total score 74) tied with Jake Kaminski (3x10's; 4x9's; 1x8). What arrow was Jake shooting?


Yea, yea, I know. The X10's are fantastic arrows. I've always said that. However, it is a significant moment for 1) all carbon arrows, and 2) parallel shafts being used in recurve. Some older archers will surely be thinking of the old Beman Diva's which were both of these as well, but were soon eclipsed by the ACE. 

Frangilli's shooting was clutch all day. I had to disagree with Rick when he said that Frangilli had gotten hot late. I watched all of Italy's matches, and he only shot one arrow out of the gold all day. Going back to do the math, he may easily have had the highest arrow average in the team event.

John


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## Oaklandish (Mar 6, 2008)

archerynooblol said:


> Have you been shooting them recently? :wink:


Unfortunately, due to an injury, I have had to take a long break from the sport. I hope to get back shooting soon, but it will take some time to be able to shoot the poundage required to tune my NP-500's and 450's. 

My comments were in jest and not meant to disparage the excellent x-10 arrows, but to basically add a +1 to Limbwalker's premise that there are other options for archers outside of the Easton family of products. This is a good thing!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I've talked to many top archers about trying the Nano Pro, and couldn't believe the responses I got. Some strange rumors floating around. However, in every case, I asked the same question... "have you shot them?" and the answer was always "No." 

Can't risk giving up potential $ and support from the Hoyt/Easton family (because the moment an archer chooses a CX arrow, they are essentially "uninvited" by Hoyt/Easton) so they don't even try them. Or if they have, they won't admit to it.

That's fine, as for most top archers, it's their livelihood. But the rest of us should know that there is another world class arrow out there, being used by Olympic gold medalists and World Champions. 

John


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Can't risk giving up potential $ and support from the Hoyt/Easton family (because the moment an archer chooses a CX arrow, they are essentially "uninvited" by Hoyt/Easton)


What does that add up to in terms of support? How much cash equivalent does the loss of that support potentially cost an archer?


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Can't risk giving up potential $ and support from the Hoyt/Easton family (because the moment an archer chooses a CX arrow, they are essentially "uninvited" by Hoyt/Easton)


What does that add up to in terms of support? How much cash equivalent does the loss of that support potentially cost an archer? Or is there even more to it than just that?


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

Warbow said:


> What does that add up to in terms of support? How much cash equivalent does the loss of that support potentially cost an archer? Or is there even more to it than just that?


...am sure many of us would also like to know that but doubt if we will ever get an accurate answer from the receipients--if any answer at all...

my guess is it gets bigger the more elite the archer is--assuming he is marketable..

highest
highest in that category for recurve archers is probably brady and gud luck getting a reply from him!!!!


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## NotKatniss (Sep 3, 2012)

I am looking to replace my 20 year old Beman Diva 17+ arrows, as they are a bit stiff. I am just getting back into the sport (FITA Olympic-style) and having fun, but would have more fun if I could really tune my arrows. Shooting 35.5# with 24" shaft...could go longer w/ out-front clicker set-up. Who's got a recommendation for me? I would like to pick up some Carbon Express Nano-Pros or XRs (used would be fine), but I can't find a spine chart that I can figure out. Emailed Carbon Express, but no response. No dealers in my area. Don't want to spend a fortune on the wrong arrows. HELP!


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## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

NotKatniss,

Go here to download the two PDF's needed to pick the right Carbon Express shafts for you, the Adjusted Draw Weight Chart and the Target Shaft Spine Chart:

http://www.carbonexpressarrows.com/shaft-selector

First use the Adjusted Draw Weight Chart to come up with a draw weight to then be used on the Target Shaft Spine Chart.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Rule of thumb on any parallel all-carbon shaft, whether it's CX nano's or CT McKinney II or even Easton's Carbon One, is to go a .070" deflection weaker than you'd otherwise use in a tapered shaft like ACE or X10. In other words, I shot 410 X10's and 400 ACE's with heavy plastic vanes (that caused them to shoot "stiffer"), but now shoot 450 Nano Pro's out of the same limbs, fletched with much lighter Elivanes.

With your specs, you're probably going to be in the 950-1000 spine range, with a 90-100 grain point.

John


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Most of what you are saying John is true, however, you won't find many archery stores in Europe that carry CX. Combined with their not so great customer service (not to mentiond the prostaff coordinator ahemDietmarTrillusahem)... there is a good reason why the brand hasn't flourished as much as it could in the past 5-6 years since they started introducing premium carbon shafts.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

I have actually had a pretty good experience with CX CS. I had a Nano XR that broke in a very unusual manner from a side impact. They told me to send it in with a RMA number. I received a brand new Nano XR back within a couple of weeks.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Dado, "Most" of what I'm saying is true? Please point out what isn't for me. 

Thanks.

John


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## >--gt--> (Jul 1, 2002)

Well, for one thing, the team- athletes- won the Gold team medal, not the arrow or any manufacturer. It's one thing to say a company won a medal and quite another to say the athlete used a product to win.

And this:



> because the moment an archer chooses a CX arrow, they are essentially "uninvited" by Hoyt/Easton)


is an utter falsehood. And you know it. I can provide a list of Hoyt shooters winning contingency shooting other arrows than Easton, but you get the point.

Athletes win medals. Not companies.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

There are 2 main parts of the recurve archer's equipments that can't be left to marketing or sponsorship related choices, only . They are Limbs and Arrows.
Top level archers (the real ones) dedicate a lot of effort in selecting a "good" pair of limbs and the proper set of arrows.
Direct support from manufacturers weights a lot in this situation.
Not all limbs are made equal, not all arrows group toghether. 
On archer told me some time ago he/she had to go through 10 pairs of officially same limbs to find a good pair. I can belive this, as I have had similar experiences with Michele and with different manufacturers. 
Then arrows: if manufatrurer supports you directly with pre-selection of the arrows, then you may get reasonable yield from the arrows you get and save time and money. If manufacturer does not do so, then you may need huge quantity of shafts to sort out some good ones. An then you have to send them to Beiter for testing (many National teams doing so since the mid of 90's), or spend weeks of shooting for the selection.
Looking to archers in London, you can easily spot those that have chosen old ILF limbs models in comparison to new ones, and those (Mexican team) that have made different choice s even on HPX/RX risers than using Hoyt limbs
As far as arrows are concerned, I still think that ACE's of the end of 90's were the best arrows ever made. But ACE's of today are a pale imitation of that product, and my family had to abandon them as it was no more possible to sort out competitive sets of arrows from today ACE's off the shelf shafts (if not going to huge number of arrows). A situation similar to the one of end of 80's when you had to select 100 Beman DIVA arrows to get 10 for competition. 
X10 was of course the second choice after ACE's for so many years already, but Nano Pro are giving a clear advantage to X10 in this situation: slightly lighter and smaller at the same dynamic spine, and with a yield in selection over 90%. 
Simple example: 
Carla was preparing this year for Ogden, and using ACE's as usual. But then she only had 10 x 780/C4 remaining, so I orderd one new set for her. 22 shafts than were cleaned inside, an shot bare at 70 mt for selection. After a lot of effort, best result was a set of 7, only grouping more or less in the same quadrant at 70 mt. 
With 2 weeks only available, Then I decided to spend 500 Euro for a set of Nano Pro with tungsten points. Result: 12 bare shafts gouping in less than 30 cm at 70 mt with minimal tuning.
By the way, Michele established in 1996 in Atlanta 2 Olympic records with ACE's: 684 on ranking and 170 on 18 arrows. 
In 2010 he has established the European record for 70 mt ranking with 686, using ACE's from an old set.
In 2011 he has switched to Nano Pro, and best result up to now with them on 70 mt round is 682 this year in Antalya.

George is right for sure when he says that is the archer that wins the medals. But good arrows and limbs may help him a lot.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks Vittorio.

I hope that manufacturers don't preselect the best arrows for their sponsored athletes. If they did, the paying customers would be getting an unfair portion of the distribution as the good arrows are boiled out of the stock.


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## Rick McKinney (Mar 4, 2008)

:set1_rolf2:



>--gt--> said:


> Well, for one thing, the team- athletes- won the Gold team medal, not the arrow or any manufacturer. It's one thing to say a company won a medal and quite another to say the athlete used a product to win.
> 
> And this:
> 
> ...


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Dado, "Most" of what I'm saying is true? Please point out what isn't for me.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> John


It's not a world's finest arrow. And since I am not on the staff any more I can testify exactly why... but you already know the whole story.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Dado said:


> It's not a world's finest arrow. And since I am not on the staff any more I can testify exactly why... but you already know the whole story.


Well, the rest of us don't know the story. Do tell.


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

Warbow said:


> Well, the rest of us don't know the story. Do tell.


Well, maybe you don't need to hear it, but a word of advice, never completely trust what prostaffer has to say about the product he shoots.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

>--gt--> said:


> Well, for one thing, the team- athletes- won the Gold team medal, not the arrow or any manufacturer. It's one thing to say a company won a medal and quite another to say the athlete used a product to win.
> ...
> Athletes win medals. Not companies.


Hmmm. From page 42 of the current Easton on-line catalog:



> Holding nearly every world compound record, the X10 ProTour absolutely dominates the world stage.


So I guess athletes win medals, but arrows hold records. 


Dado, regardless of your personal feelings about Dietmar Trillus, you have to admit his 2007 World Championship and other wins brought Carbon Express into the light in target archery, and he has been highly successful in recruiting many top world-class compound shooters onto the Carbon Express shooting staff.


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## NotKatniss (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks Ter. I have been looking at those charts. For one thing, I don't know what grain point to enter on the chart. And when I do look at the target shaft selection chart, I don't see Nano Pro or Nano XR on them. They recommend a PT800, and that's the weakest arrow on the chart. However, I did call L.A.S. and got a recommendation similar to what Limbwalker gave. There must be another chart somewhere....

Thanks for your help!


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## NotKatniss (Sep 3, 2012)

Thank you so much John. I thought to call the techs at L.A.S. after I posted, and they said about the same, based on a chart they had. Either the 900 at 25" with 100-110 grain points, or the 1000 at 24" with either 70-90 gr points OR the 100-120 gr. points. I like the possibility of more options with the 1000. 

Given the same working spine (in other words, if either shaft can be tuned properly), is it better to go with heavier points or lighter ones? 

And then, since I haven't shot competition in so long, fill me in on vanes, please. Is there a viable alternative to spin vanes that work well in wind? I don't like the tape connection. I'd rather glue 'em on.

Thanks for your input.


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## hwjchan (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm not John, but as far as Nano XRs go, I personally like heavier points. The heaviest points I can get for 830s in SS are 100 grain points, and I need every grain of weight in that point when shooting in any sort of wind. Nanos are so light that they just get tossed around in the slightest wind. I'm shooting 100 grain points on 25" carbon to carbon shafts, pins and Beiter pin nocks with P3 Elivanes. Seems to be a pretty good combination, They group quite well at 70 when my form keeps up with them.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> is an utter falsehood. And you know it.


George, please. I can speak from personal experience. The X10 and ACE are fine arrows, but everything Vittorio says is true - about the poor ratio of useable arrows with the X10 and ACE, as well as the high % of useable arrows with CX Nano Pro's. Both the Easton and CX arrows are superb arrows. I've always said that, and I still often recommend Easton arrows to may of my students for very specific reasons. But until I see a single dozen X10's or ACE's that can do this at 70 meters, I will not be convinced that Easton is minding their quality control:









Dado, you are correct. I now know the rest of the story, and you are apparently not who you represent yourself to be.

John


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## Dado (Aug 1, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Dado, you are correct. I now know the rest of the story, and you are apparently not who you represent yourself to be.
> 
> John


I am exactly who "I represent to be", otherwise I'd seriously start bashing a brand with which I had personal grief. Like I said - CX aren't as good as people try to advertize it, but I won't get into details. That's a fact, anything said past that would bring me to *you-know-who's* level.


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## AdAstraAirow (Aug 22, 2011)

When I read Vittorio's post about bareshaft tuning at 70 meters, and then see John's photo as well, am truly inspired to see the possibilities that night be achieved someday. This is from someone who is absolutely elated when his form occasionally allows his bareshaft to actually hit a 52" butt at 40 yards.

Mark


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Dado, you have your reasons, and you're entitled to them. I'm not getting in the middle of that.

Ad, The day I took the photo above was the day I made the decision to switch from X10's to Nano's. And believe me, I did NOT make the decision lightly. But I had never seen that kind of bare shaft performance at 70 meters from any other arrow. The best I could ever do with A/C/E's was about 9 in the gold and 3 in the red. The best I ever did with a dozen X10's was about 7 in the gold, two or three in the red, and at least one or two in the blue. But with the Nano's, I got a dozen useable arrows. 

Incidentally, that group was shot with Nano XR shafts with their (sorry CX) crappy meta-nocks that I was testing for them. Switching to pin nocks, then Beiter out-nocks and Nano Pro's only improved things. 

I can honestly say that the Nano Pros I'm shooting right now, fletched with Elivane S3's, are the most forgiving and best performing arrow I've ever shot at 70 Meters. Last weekend, I was not shooting particularly well (I've not practiced more than 75 arrows/week since May) and still managed a 648 ranking round on the same bale with Brady Ellison. I get away with things using these arrows that I simply could not get away with using X10's. My bad shots now are 8's and 7's instead of 7's and 6's. And it's not really reduced drift. I aim off the same amount with these arrows that I did with X10's. It's just that these are more forgiving arrows, hands down. 

Michele has been testing the Nano Pro for recurve nearly as long as I have and he and Vittorio discovered the same thing. They are just a very forgiving and consistent arrow. Do they have issues? Sure they do. And CX is working on solutions for those just like every company does to improve their products. Nano Pro's established themselves as world class compound arrows very early. However, with recurves, they can be a little tricky to get good clearance with, and CX is constantly working to tweak the formula and create the best recurve arrow available. 

But this is the future of arrows. Eventually, Easton and anyone else in the market will be forced to follow what CX is doing with their technology. It's just a matter of time.

John


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

John, did you ever try bare-shaft at 70M with aluminum arrows? Would be interesting to see how they compare grouping-wise with current carbons and aluminum/carbons. Back when I was doing serious recurve shooting, we weren't that picky about tuning, and if we could keep them on the butt at 70, that was considered good.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

Dado said:


> a word of advice, never completely trust what prostaffer has to say about the product he shoots.


that depends on what you're expecting to take away from the experience.

a sponsored archer is always going to talk up the product he's paid to represent - that's his job. that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't believe it, either.

a more impartial point of view would be from someone at the top of the rankings who isn't sponsored and shoots a given product only because it's the best they can get their hands on, but good luck finding one of those - they all have sponsorship contracts...


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## NotKatniss (Sep 3, 2012)

I figured out what I was doing wrong. I was looking at Carbon Express's chart for target arrows (which is what I need), while they have target arrows charted as "Field Target Arrows". I didn't think to look there. Oops!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> a sponsored archer is always going to talk up the product he's paid to represent - that's his job. that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't believe it, either.


For the record, I've never been paid a cent by CX. I shoot them because after extensive testing, I determined they are a better arrow than A/C/E's or X10's FOR ME. 

I don't recommend them to everyone though. Just depends on the individual's specific needs and budget. Many archers should still be shooting A/C/E's. Including MOST of the archers currently shooting X10's. Like 75% of them. In fact, I cringe every time I see a cadet recurve archer shooting X10's. Or a lot of the women who are shooting 40# or less. For some crazy reason, they've all been brainwashed to think the X10 is a more competitive arrow for them, when in fact, the A/C/E would probably score better and save the money at the same time. 

But hey, it's not my money they're spending!

John


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