# Bow Recomendation



## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Here's what I'd like... you guys tell me what current bow fits these specs. First I'd like a light physical bow weight 4.5 lbs or less. Next an A-A length of probably 38 in. or more to avoid much finger pinch ( I shoot 3 under, drop the bottom finger). Third and most important to me cause of my bad shoulder, smooth draw and a big valley that I can shoot out of. I'm finding out that I'm not a big fan of the bow trying to pull out of my fingers if I relax even a little.

I used to shoot Pro Vantages and other wheel bows and like that type of feel on the draw and hold. I'm not sure which of the modern bows produces that same type feel. I'd like to get a new bow not another ProVantage but it may come to that. Speed is not a big concern with me cause I have to shoot fairly light pondage anyway of my shoulder will fall off. 
Go ahead and give me some recomendations on what might fit all those requirements. So far the best I've found is a Barnesdale but the wait is so long..I might not live that long.


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## mathews xt 600 (Jan 5, 2007)

I would say an Elite XLR but its 37" ata with an 8" brace. The draw though is super smooth.


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## barebow52 (Nov 7, 2007)

Hoyt montega with accuwheels,or a used Caribou


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Trust me when I say the wait for Barney is worth every minute. If time is of the essence, then go Montega. Have you checked to see how long that will take???? May be a toss up. Not knowing what you're draw or weight requirements are, I can't say if it will fit, but Field14 has a 40" blue Barney with maple limbs he was thinking about selling a month or so ago......


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Unclegus said:


> Trust me when I say the wait for Barney is worth every minute. If time is of the essence, then go Montega. Have you checked to see how long that will take???? May be a toss up. Not knowing what you're draw or weight requirements are, I can't say if it will fit, but Field14 has a 40" blue Barney with maple limbs he was thinking about selling a month or so ago......


My draw is 28 inches and weight will work anywhere from 35-upper 40's. I don't think I can shoot 50 any more. Unclegus I think you are right the Barnsdales are probably going to be the best but when I last checked the wait was over a year. Haven't checked on the Montega so I don't know what the wait is for that one.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Th barney that Field 14 has will fit you like a sock...if he still has it.....


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

The weight for a Barnsdale is not very long. I ordered one on March the 18th, it shipped yesterday. Just 1 day short of 6 weeks. 

Keith


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## glass3222 (Jan 12, 2008)

What about a Martin S4?
I have been shooting one for the last few months and I think it is a great fingers bow.

specs:

Speed: 305 FPS (70#, 30”, 350 gr.)
Let-Off: 65%
Draw Weights: 50#, 60#, 70#
Draw Length: 27”-32”
Brace Height: 8”
Weight: 4.4 lbs.
Axle Length: 43”


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

KStover said:


> The weight for a Barnsdale is not very long. I ordered one on March the 18th, it shipped yesterday. Just 1 day short of 6 weeks.
> 
> Keith


Thanks for the info. Which model did you get? The shoot through system or cable guard? Please post and let me know how it shoots and compares to the "old school" bows, I know you have a lot of experience with good older wheel bows so I will value your opinion.

Unclegus, since the wait now appears short I may order a Barnsdale. What is your opinion of the shoot thru system vs. the cable guard?

Thanks guys,

Bill


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

glass3222 said:


> What about a Martin S4?
> I have been shooting one for the last few months and I think it is a great fingers bow.
> 
> specs:
> ...


Glass, thanks for the info, I actually had an S4 and liked it except for the cam. Although not a "hard cam" it still had a little more hump and less valley than I like.

Thanks.


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## boxxer (Dec 12, 2003)

*Barnsdale?????*

I ordered a Barnsdale and was told a month!!!!!!!!You may want to give Dave a call
Dean


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## glass3222 (Jan 12, 2008)

Old Sarge said:


> Glass, thanks for the info, I actually had an S4 and liked it except for the cam. Although not a "hard cam" it still had a little more hump and less valley than I like.
> 
> Thanks.


What cam did your S4 have? I have the furious X cam. If you want something even smoother check out a Ross CR337 (used). I have one as my hunting bow. It has the smoothest draw of any bow that I have shot, and my dad's Mathews Ovation is almost as smooth as the 337.


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## Arrow (Aug 30, 2002)

Check to see if you could get a custom S4 with the M Pro cam on the Magnum limb platform. It should fit your specs quite well.

Arrow


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Sarge, not happy with the Dragon?

Sounds like the Barnsdale is a good solution, I was going to suggest a used Ross CR337. Smooth, fast and easy to hold.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Sarge
I ordered the shoot through system, 47.5 ATA max poundage 50. I'm a spot shooter not a hunter, I shoot Free Style Limited.

I've shot several 300s indoors and shot a 523 field round within the last few weeks, using one of my 1980s Pearson 2301s. 
I'm very happy with the old style of bows and honestly believe that they make better finger bows than most of the newer ones. 
I expect the Barnsdale to have the best of the old with a little modern technology thrown in. Heck I'm still shooting Dacron strings.
The Barnsdale should arrive next Tuesday, but I'm having surgery that day and probably will not shoot it until later in the week. I'll let you know what I think.

Keith


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

NeilM said:


> Sarge, not happy with the Dragon?
> 
> Sounds like the Barnsdale is a good solution, I was going to suggest a used Ross CR337. Smooth, fast and easy to hold.


Neil, yeah I still really like the Dragon. One of the best bows I've ever shot. Just having an issue with the hard back wall. I've never really shot one before and it takes some getting used to. I'm thinking about getting another bow for NFAA Field/3D while I keep working with the Dragon. I've always been more of a round wheel guy. For that reason I like my AF-X80 a lot cause of the valley but the physical weight of that bow must be 600 lbs! I'm to old to lug it all the way around a 28 target NFAA course and lift it up to shoot 112 times.


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

> I like my AF-X80 a lot cause of the valley but the physical weight of that bow must be 600 lbs! I'm to old to lug it all the way around a 28 target NFAA course and lift it up to shoot 112 times.


I hear ya! I have an Aeroforce out on long term loan. It is a great shooting bow, but it has got to be the heaviest bow I've ever owned.

I think a hard back wall is a love / hate thing. I shoot much better with a hard wall than I ever did before, but I fully understand that it is an acquired taste.

I am really quite surprised with the Dragon, that you can't just back to stops out and roll further into the valley, but it appears that you will end up with too much let off.

I would still offer the Ross as a much softer option, although I think the round wheel Barny is probably exactly what you're looking for.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Old Sarge said:


> Thanks for the info. Which model did you get? The shoot through system or cable guard? Please post and let me know how it shoots and compares to the "old school" bows, I know you have a lot of experience with good older wheel bows so I will value your opinion.
> 
> Unclegus, since the wait now appears short I may order a Barnsdale. What is your opinion of the shoot thru system vs. the cable guard?
> 
> ...


I was intimidated a little by the shoot thru, but it's the best thing since sliced bread...


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

So length and speed is not an issue. Intresting choice........


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## fingershooter1 (Sep 12, 2005)

barebow52 said:


> Hoyt montega with accuwheels,or a used Caribou


I'll second that. I have an 08 Montega w/ accuwheels and love it.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Guys thanks for all the good suggestions. Now that the wait time is reasonable I think I'm going to order a Barnsdale Classic X 46 in, 45 lb, with the 2 round wheels. For the style of shooting I like this will probably be the best bow for me. The new Hoyt Montega is tempting as is a used Caribou. I've always liked the Barnsdale but the wait of over a year was just to much for me to deal with...I'm to impatient.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

I shoot a Martin S4 but based on what you were looking for I would suggested the Relfex Caribou. It has a very liberal ATA 44" +- and it has a wheel so it's going to have a bit of a valley and not yank the string out of your hand as you let down.

Of course what you are asking for is the way most of the bows in the 80'2 were made so perhaps you should just get on Ebay and by a vintage bow


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## fingershooter1 (Sep 12, 2005)

Old Sarge said:


> Guys thanks for all the good suggestions. Now that the wait time is reasonable I think I'm going to order a Barnsdale Classic X 46 in, 45 lb, with the 2 round wheels. For the style of shooting I like this will probably be the best bow for me. The new Hoyt Montega is tempting as is a used Caribou. I've always liked the Barnsdale but the wait of over a year was just to much for me to deal with...I'm to impatient.


Barnsdale makes a good finger bow also, I was also looking at those when I chose the montega.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

I received my new Barnsdale Monday evening. It’s a gorgeous piece of equipment.
Here’s some of my thoughts on the Barnsdale vs my old Pearson wheel bows. My old Pearsons have PSE wheels and cables, I shot for PSE back in the day and liked their wheels better than Pearson’s but liked the Pearson bows better than the PSE’s. So I combined them to make what I felt was a great shooting bow.

Weight – Barnsdale 47.5” ATA bare bow weight 4.9 pounds. Pearson weighs 4.0 pounds.
Smooth draw – the Barnsdale has 65% let off vs 50% of my old bows. The extra left off % of the Barnsdale makes you feel the wheel coming over the hump more. The peak weight section of the draw of the Barnsdale is longer than my old bow. Due to both of these issues, I have to say that the old bow is smoother, but the Barnsdale is not bad at all. 
Speed – shooting 340 grain arrows, both bows set at 50#, the Barnsdale shoots 233 FPS. 
My old bow shoots 202 FPS.
Valley/wall – The Barnsdale has a shorter valley than the old bow, but it’s not bad. The old bow has a soft wall, the Barnsdale has a hard wall. 
Center shot – The Barnsdale is a true center shot bow, almost all old bows including my Pearsons are not. The Barnsdale was very easy to tune.
Brace height – The Barnsdale has 9 3/4” the Pearson has 10 5/8” 

The Barnsdale has the shoot through system with the Doovawaoppi spreaders. There is a little over 2” between the strings at the arrow. I can easily load my arrows from the rear. (I had heard that you had to load from the front with the shoot through system). I’m shooting 3” feathers and have no issues with clearance. After just a few shots I’m already accustomed to it. 
The Barnsdale is tighter than my old bows. This is hard to explain, it’s a feeling you get from shooting it. The string at rest has more preload. The Barnsdale is a lot louder than my old bows. Some of the noise is from the strings crossing each other that form the shoot through system. I’m a spot shooter so the noise is not an issue. 
The higher let off % is a big plus for me, I believe it will increase my scores. I’m not as strong as I was back in the day and holding 18# at full draw vs 25# makes a big difference. I’m holding steadier than I ever have.

Happy trails
Keith


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

KStover...That was a excellent post...good review of the longer A-T-A "Barney" bow, and very informative...KStover, what's Your draw length??...Jim


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## MetricMag (Aug 6, 2008)

Old Sarge, I'm also a great fan of the Hoyt Provantage. I shot one with release and fingers in NFAA field and local tournaments and shot it better than any bow I have ever had. I loved the 50% let off for fingers and my 2 finger Stan. I recently bought a Barnsdale Redman new from Dave B. It reminds me very much of the pro v. It is 50" ata with round wheels and 60% let off. Now get ready for this! Brand new $ 350.00. Also, last summer I bought an Oneida Talon straight from the factory. I shoot it 2 under without any finger pinch. It is a light, handy, incredibly smooth bow. I had them set it at the lowest let off possible---45% which I love. You couldn't go wrong with either IMHO. I'm from Wilmington, NC. Do you live anywhere near there?


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Harperman said:


> KStover...That was a excellent post...good review of the longer A-T-A "Barney" bow, and very informative...KStover, what's Your draw length??...Jim


My draw lenght is 30 1/4". The bow was adjust to my draw length when it arrived. 

Keith


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## Dadpays (Oct 11, 2006)

*Loud*



KStover said:


> The Barnsdale is a lot louder than my old bows. Some of the noise is from the strings crossing each other that form the shoot through system. I’m a spot shooter so the noise is not an issue.


My son went to a shoot and some of the guys actually went to the other end of the line they thought his Classic X was so loud! LOL Actually, I had his backed off in poundage and coupled with light arrows it was loud (or at least loud compared to a hunting bow). However, this past weekend I cranked it all the way down and we both noticed it was "whisper quiet" last night while shooting in the gym. Great bows!!


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

KStover, great report on the bow thanks very much for the info. I'm glad you like it already. I'm still debating on what I want to get. I'm in no hurry since I have my Monster Bows Dragon, and an AF so this is just a nice to get toy for me and not a neccessity. The Barnesdale is still on the top of the list though at this point. I actually just got a new OLY type Hoyt recurve which I am stringwalking with. Only 28# so my shoulder doesn't fall off. 

Metric Mag, I live in Moore county way over by Carthage, probably about 3 hours from Wilmington.


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Old Sarge
Another option is to have Dave Barnsdale put new wheels and limbs on an old Pro Vantage. The wait for custom work was about 10 months. His web site said that his custom shop was closed, but I called him in February and got on his waiting list. Here's his email:

“On Sun, 2/8/09, 
[email protected] 
Hi Keith, 
Sorry, but you would have to go on the waiting list. 
There is about 30 people ahead of you, about 9-10 months wait. Seems I can't keep up. 
If you want to be on the list, respond to this email. I 
will email you back to confirm you are on the list. I'll email you when it is your turn to send your bow for me to work on. 

Thanks, 
Dave” 

I’m still on the waiting list, not sure if I’ll use his services. It depends on how the new bow and I are getting along at the time.

Happy trails
Keith


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Boy are we both on the same page... It's really good to see someone who truly understands what is going on. It almost makes me puke when the first thing someone asks me about either one of my Barnsdales is how fast does it shoot........ukey:


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## jtascone (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow! Why are these deals always offered when I am flat broke! This is a great deal on a great bow. I have been wanting one for a long time. Here's a bump for ya!


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## Old Sarge (Sep 9, 2008)

Unclegus said:


> Boy are we both on the same page... It's really good to see someone who truly understands what is going on. It almost makes me puke when the first thing someone asks me about either one of my Barnsdales is how fast does it shoot........ukey:


Speed?? What's that?? I always thought accuracy was the important thing, perhaps I''ve been missing something all these years.


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

Well, close. I think forgiveness and shootability are first on the agenda. Speed? back before the two heart attacks and the accident, I shot a couple of 270 hunter halves and stayed in the higher sixties with a provantage at 198FPS. That's the part that really cracks me up when people think they have to shoot 300FPS to get anything done..... I'd settle for a low fifty half right now... haven't shot a 500 in a really long time., but I think I can see one in my near future.


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## fuelracerpat (May 6, 2008)

*Barnsdale noise*

I just got my huntin' bow from Dave a couple weeks ago.... Classic X at 45" ATA. 64# at 29.5 true draw (to center of front plunger hole). It is set up with a cable guard. With a hunting weight arrow (400 gr) ACC 3-49 at 29 5/8" , 100 gr broadhead/tip and 3 four inch feathers this bow is as quiet as any of my old Hoyt or Pearson bows. The brace height on this bow is 9" as measured with a bow square, a full inch lower than on my 48" Classic X. This little bow is gonna be a real killer.:darkbeer:
I think most of the noise is from shooting the really light arrows. On my 48" Classic X I shoot 315 gr 3d lightspeeds outdoors at 64-65# and they seem particularly noisy, indoors at 56#, 600 gr 2514's and they have the bow much quieter.
IMHO the Barnsdale Classic X is as good a finger bow as has ever been manufactured and I have owned and shot just about all of the old "classic" finger bows from Hoyt, Pearson, PSE.


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## Feral Donkey (Nov 6, 2005)

Whatever you get, I sugest getting it used. New compound bows lose their value very quickly. Besides, with this economy, you can have anything you want for not much money. Hardly anyone is buying and everyone is selling. 

I will say I'm happy with my Mathews C4 I just picked up here in the classifieds for 1/2 what a new one costs and that's shipped to my door. I found the exact bow in the color, limbs, cam, draw length I wanted even.


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