# Patent Pending device guaranteed to increase bow speed 10-30fps!!!!!



## BuckeyeRed

Does it come w/ batteries? :darkbeer:


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## alligood729

BuckeyeRed said:


> Does it come w/ batteries? :darkbeer:


No batteries required!!


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## blmarlin

*Timeline?*

So how long of a wait are we talking before we see some marketing material?


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## ats

pics or delete thread


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## disturbed13

ats said:


> pics or delete thread


+1


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## AdvanTimberLou

Cool deal David, wish you all the best buddy and who knows, maybe one will go on my bow someday! :grin:


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## Archery-Addiction

pointless post without more details...


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## Bnbfishin

This post is almost as bad as the one where the guys are getting thir blood pressure up about what Mathew's is coming out with next  Not nice to tell us some tidbits about something and then not be able to give any details


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## alligood729

Hey guys, don't kill the messenger!!:tongue: I can't post a pic until the unit is in final production mode. The proto I have on my bow is a rough draft, the camo dip finish is not the quality they want yet. BUT it will be soon! There are a few minor details to work out before it goes public. I will say this, our regional Hoyt rep saw it last Monday. If you know who he is, (we are in GA) just ask him!!! He'll give you his opinion. These guys don't want to start something they can't finish. 
As far as comparing this to the Mathews ads, I'm sure someone has seen the new stuff. But I have my put my hands on this one, and like I said, a prototype is on my bow now. The results I quoted are for real. Just have a little patience, you will be not be disappointed!!!


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## ultramax

You have my interest.


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## Mr. Burns

ok atleast give us a name of the product or something. or how or where it ittaches to the bow. how does it make the bow faster..? my guess is that is is like an overdraw from back in the 80's. i would never use one of those again.


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## Josh_Putman

Is it a Phase Inhibitor container you bolt to your riser? :tongue:


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## NEVADAPRO

Oh my God!! PI is back:wink:




Josh_Putman said:


> Is it a Phase Inhibitor container you bolt to your riser? :tongue:


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## alligood729

Mr. Burns said:


> ok atleast give us a name of the product or something. or how or where it ittaches to the bow. how does it make the bow faster..? my guess is that is is like an overdraw from back in the 80's. i would never use one of those again.


No, nothing like the old overdraw!


NEVADAPRO said:


> Oh my God!! PI is back:wink:


:set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2:


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## Sticks N Strings

Fella's. He is not joking. Its as serious as it gets. Im designing the logo for it. I wish we could say more about it just to show the nay sayers............. But, We just can't. It want be long though. A Week or so.......

Just hold on to your eyes because once you watch your bow go from your car to nascar, you will then believe..........


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## mdewitt71

A bow draw wt. scale that measures 10 pounds less than normal or how about an Estes rocket pack for the back of your Arrow Shaft. :wink:


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## team_TRX

Wiley Coyote had one.I think the name was

*ACME*


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## Sticks N Strings

You guys that are laughing will prolly be the first to open your wallets to get one........
:sign10:	:sign10:	:sign10:	:sign10:


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## Pearsonguy305

*aligood..................*

just for your info, once the provisional, hasbeen filed you can show it, once you file the provisonal its is your idea, so either post pics are let it go, as i sent you a message, my wife is a patent paralegal, we have done sevral patents for freinds. Just incase you wanna know more on patents, let us know ok. she couldve saved you tons of money. but oh well one lives and learns, Id call this idea hog wash tho until we see the Proto type.


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## Sticks N Strings

mdewitt71 said:


> A bow draw wt. scale that measures 10 pounds less than normal or how about an Estes rocket pack for the back of your Arrow Shaft. :wink:





team_TRX said:


> Wiley Coyote had one.I think the name was
> 
> *ACME*





Pearsonguy305 said:


> just for your info, once the provisional, hasbeen filed you can show it, once you file the provisonal its is your idea, so either post pics are let it go, as i sent you a message, my wife is a patent paralegal, we have done sevral patents for freinds. Just incase you wanna know more on patents, let us know ok. she couldve saved you tons of money. but oh well one lives and learns, Id call this idea hog wash tho until we see the Proto type.



ROFL, we know all of this...... We are waiting to get the ok from the guys that invented this. I have sat back and laughed for about 30 mins or so just because even though you tell people you have something. They will still sit there and say nah, not possible, it aint happening. Like were some rookies or something that don't know how to use a Chrono, or a camera. Its not that alligood can't do it, or does not wanna do it. Its because he's been asked not to post pix. Plain and simple. I have $1000.00 dollars rite now in my savings account that if some one wants to bet me rite here, rite now that this product does not exsist, that this product does not work. Some one please take this bet. That will sure make my trip to the land of the giants a lot easier on me and the wife. I could use an extra grand........ We shot spots last night at our local place and i can assure you. I held 3 of these items in hand.


We have no reason to make this stuff up. I assure you what alligood is telling you is dead on...... I would not put up my savings for hunting if it were not true..........


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## PSERepNE

*tease*

Not sure who is being a bigger tease alligood or my wife. I'm sure the item exists, but come on! You know that archers are the biggest kids! We can't wait for the new bows, what makes you think we will wait for something like this??? So in end I guess just like my wife I find myself alone in a hotel room.


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## mdewitt71

Robbie101 said:


> You guys that are laughing will prolly be the first to open your wallets to get one........
> :sign10:	:sign10:	:sign10:	:sign10:


You are probably right but, till then it's like making fun of someone pass'n gas in public.........
It's funny unless you are the one that delt it. :wink:


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## tacdriver

:darkbeer:ukey: 
This post is useless without pics !


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## Archery-Addiction

If this product is simple, easy to install and looks good...You will sell A LOT of them! Be ready to be copied though, look what happened to the sts!


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## NARLEYHORNS

*A star is born .......*



alligood729 said:


> I know, I know, you've heard it before. "This new gizmo will speed your bow up.......etc." WELL, I have seen it with my own eyes, have one on my bow, and have seen the evidence on several other models as well. I shoot an X Force 6, set at 27", set at 60lbs, 350gr arrow. The stock bow was shooting 295fps average. Without changing any of the bow's specs, we put this thing on my bow, and immediately got an increase of 18fps avg!!! The biggest change I saw was on a Hoyt Celena. Set at 45lbs, shooting the same target arrow, it went from 265fps to 301!! Now, I know that there will be a lot of doubters, a lot of questions, because new products promise all kinds of things. Well, this one can deliver. It will be available in camo, and anodized target colors. Production hasn't started yet, because we are making sure all the "t"s are crossed, and the "i"s dotted. I actually witnessed a stock X Force 7 get an increase of 30fps, and that ain't no bull. I can't go into too many details yet, but keep your eyes and ears open. I'll be posting further updates from time to time, depending on the production schedule, and maybe a few tweaks here and there!!! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


I understand the prep for release. I understand the crossing of "i" and "t" of anything that is new in this archery industry. With the patent battles that take place over things in this industry it is a well thought out process and a complicated one. When you do realease it, there will be countless lawyers looking at ways around it and or to connect it to any previous patent filing. Yes... when your provisional is filed you do have a 1 year window of protection on you item. 

I am no lawyer. Can anyone here clarify this, Provisional filing to Non Provsional filing and Patent granted time frame in regards to copycat type security protection? A letter to stop building it without having an actual Patent granted by the patent office is it indeed nothing but an invited to a court battle untill the actual patent is granted correct?


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## Sticks N Strings

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=261210

Go threw and read these.....;

Notice............The HOYT REP STATMENT........


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## alligood729

Robbie101 said:


> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=261210
> 
> Go threw and read these.....;
> 
> Notice............The HOYT REP STATMENT........


Thanks for the support Robbie! I just did the calculations on the KE for my bow, with this thing and without. KE improved from 67.65ft lbs to 77.13 ft lbs!!!!


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## KDS

I've got a pretty good idea of what it is from reading the attached link,,,,,, Sign me up for one!!!!

Can these be pre-ordered?

Seriously, can I pre-order one?


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## ciscokid

pearsonguy305 said:


> just for your info, once the provisional, hasbeen filed you can show it, once you file the provisonal its is your idea, so either post pics are let it go, as i sent you a message, my wife is a patent paralegal, we have done sevral patents for freinds. Just incase you wanna know more on patents, let us know ok. She couldve saved you tons of money. But oh well one lives and learns, id call this idea hog wash tho until we see the proto type.


+1


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## ciscokid

Robbie101 said:


> ROFL, we know all of this...... We are waiting to get the ok from the guys that invented this. I have sat back and laughed for about 30 mins or so just because even though you tell people you have something. They will still sit there and say nah, not possible, it aint happening. Like were some rookies or something that don't know how to use a Chrono, or a camera. Its not that alligood can't do it, or does not wanna do it. Its because he's been asked not to post pix. Plain and simple. I have $1000.00 dollars rite now in my savings account that if some one wants to bet me rite here, rite now that this product does not exsist, that this product does not work. Some one please take this bet. That will sure make my trip to the land of the giants a lot easier on me and the wife. I could use an extra grand........ We shot spots last night at our local place and i can assure you. I held 3 of these items in hand.
> 
> 
> We have no reason to make this stuff up. I assure you what alligood is telling you is dead on...... I would not put up my savings for hunting if it were not true..........


 


I will take that bet.. Just to clarify in your own words.... You will bet that it doesn't exists? I will bet that it does exists.

I do accept paypal! :wink:


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## Robert Sowell

I know both of these gentlemen (alligood and robbie) and both are stand up guys. If they say it is so, I believe them. Wish you fellows well with your new product. Nuff said.


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## alligood729

Robert Sowell said:


> I know both of these gentlemen (alligood and robbie) and both are stand up guys. If they say it is so, I believe them. Wish you fellows well with your new product. Nuff said.


Thanks Robert, I was hoping you'd see this! However, it is Steve and Bernard's baby, I'm just the mouthpiece!!:wink::wink::wink:


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## Sticks N Strings

ciscokid said:


> I will take that bet.. Just to clarify in your own words.... You will bet that it doesn't exists? I will bet that it does exists.
> 
> I do accept paypal! :wink:



That it does exists and that it does work........ Sorry for the misunderstanding.......

I also accept paypal......


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## Sticks N Strings

alligood729 said:


> thanks robert, i was hoping you'd see this! However, it is steve and bernard's baby, i'm just the mouthpiece!!:wink::wink::wink:


x2 

I wish it were mine because all of my buds would be headed north to hunt........

Steve and Bernard struck gold on this one.........and Congrats to those guys for doing so..........

And i can't go back and edit my post....... I meant it does exists, not that it does not exists......


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## bigbuckdn

Robbie101 said:


> You guys that are laughing will prolly be the first to open your wallets to get one........
> :sign10:	:sign10:	:sign10:	:sign10:


let me be the first to become part of your prostaff i will shoot it and promote it


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## Sticks N Strings

Robbie101 said:


> ROFL, we know all of this...... We are waiting to get the ok from the guys that invented this. I have sat back and laughed for about 30 mins or so just because even though you tell people you have something. They will still sit there and say nah, not possible, it aint happening. Like were some rookies or something that don't know how to use a Chrono, or a camera. Its not that alligood can't do it, or does not wanna do it. Its because he's been asked not to post pix. Plain and simple. I have $1000.00 dollars rite now in my savings account that if some one wants to bet me rite here, rite now that this product does not exsist, that this product does not work. Some one please take this bet. That will sure make my trip to the land of the giants a lot easier on me and the wife. I could use an extra grand........ We shot spots last night at our local place and i can assure you. I held 3 of these items in hand.
> 
> 
> We have no reason to make this stuff up. I assure you what alligood is telling you is dead on...... I would not put up my savings for hunting if it were not true..........





bigbuckdn said:


> let me be the first to become part of your prostaff i will shoot it and promote it




I wish it were mine bud...... Like i say, me and all my close friends would be headed to pike county for a late season hunt my expense...... Im just like alligood...... We are for real, these will be on the market within a couple of weeks if not sooner. I am designing the logo for them now........ Truly amazing,,,,,


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## Pride Hunter

*Well*

Need a test pilot?


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## pragmatic_lee

Robbie101 said:


> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=261210
> 
> Go threw and read these.....;
> 
> Notice............The HOYT REP STATMENT........


Guess there might have been a bit too much info.


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## lawnmower

Robbie101 said:


> http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=261210
> 
> Go threw and read these.....;
> 
> Notice............The HOYT REP STATMENT........


I call complete and total BS. thelink doesnt even work!!


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## MitchFolsom

lawnmower said:


> I call complete and total BS. thelink doesnt even work!!


They are doing maintenace on the sight. Yall are going to regret the hard words. I know these two guys from the GON board. Just sit back and watch, it is going to happen.


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## tmolina

*ttt*

I hope its quiet durable and cheap and can be attached to any bow right out of the package!


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## pragmatic_lee

tmolina said:


> I hope its quiet durable and cheap and can be attached to any bow right out of the package!


From reading the linked thread, I don't see "any bow" a reality - only those with a cable guard/slide.


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## MitchFolsom

pragmatic_lee said:


> Guess there might have been a bit too much info.


It's back up.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=261210


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## bigbuckdn

still offering to be a test driver


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## Sticks N Strings

lawnmower said:


> I call complete and total BS. thelink doesnt even work!!


Check now bud............I would not post something like this if it were not real.......


But hey you dont have to believe it. But, you will...........


And as of today 11-14-2008.......... Alligood and I will expect apologizes after it hits the market and all you guys are in the wow stage and eating the words you have posted........

Thanks Mitch.....


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## swwiff

*Bungee cord?*

Only works with a cable slide?

What did you do mount a bungee cord to a cable slide from the riser in order decrease the the loss of energy that must come from the cables and slide?

I could see applying a mechanical advantage in this way to remove the inefficencies of a cable slide and it would allow that freed energy to be imparted to the arrow instead of being used to turn the cams and move the slide.

Just guessin.

Am I warm?


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## mathews goat

I'm interested in seeing this. Will you post pics here soon?


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## Gajbird

*honestly*

I talked with the Hoyt Rep the day after he tested it and he is jacked.

He is not the region rep however. He is an original owner of outtechTHE Hoyt distributors

He gave higher gains but these folks are being conservative. I am trying to get a proto type and have agreed to sign a non-disclosure but who knows. I want it on my new Alphamax which isn't here yet anyhow.

I am sure you folks will be standing in line to get one as will I when they hit the market. 

The guys at 12pt have a lot of friends so I am sure there have been many tests and apparently the word in Ga. is "IT WORKS"

God Bless, Jay


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## Sticks N Strings

mathews goat said:


> I'm interested in seeing this. Will you post pics here soon?


As soon as we get the ok on it alligood will........


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## team_TRX

OK,so say it is true.I am not saying it isn't.BUT,my question is if this product increases speed and KE that much are bow companies goign to void their warranties if it is put on their bows?Does it put added stress on any part of the bow to get these increases?Not stirring the pot,just asking.....


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## Sticks N Strings

team_TRX said:


> OK,so say it is true.I am not saying it isn't.BUT,my question is if this product increases speed and KE that much are bow companies goign to void their warranties if it is put on their bows?Does it put added stress on any part of the bow to get these increases?Not stirring the pot,just asking.....



That I can not answer for sure. Maybe Alligood knows but I do not. I can tell you I will try and find out..........


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## Gajbird

*well*

The impression I got is that the bow companies would love to have or at least Hoyt would love to have exclusive rights to it so I don't think it is putting extra stress on any part of the bow.


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## Hemingway

Could someone please confirm that this will ONLY work on bows with cable guards and not roller guards?


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## alligood729

team_TRX said:


> OK,so say it is true.I am not saying it isn't.BUT,my question is if this product increases speed and KE that much are bow companies goign to void their warranties if it is put on their bows?Does it put added stress on any part of the bow to get these increases?Not stirring the pot,just asking.....


Thanks Mitch!!! It does nothing to a bow that many other aftermarket devices already do that would void the warranty. The greatest effect on my bow was a 1/4" deflection (more) on the limbs, which in effect is basically the same thing as cranking the limb bolts down to gain poundage. As of right now, it will work only on bows that use a standard 3/8" cable rod. I saw another example today, with my own eyes. A guy brought in a 6-7 yr old PSE Nitro, single hatchet style cam bow. His setup is 30" draw, 70lbs, and a 370 gr arrow, and chronoed 287fps. After installing this thing, it bumped it to 318fps!! The KE improved from 67ft lbs to 85ft lbs.
Guys, I realize that this kind of post only raises more questions, and eyebrows. It was meant to be a teaser, and it worked!!!:wink: These guys have worked tirelessly for the last few weeks, trying to finalize some things before they go into production mode. Anybody else would do the same thing. The lack of pictures is not my choice, but their's. Believe what you will, think what you will, say what you will. I know that pictures would make a HUGE difference. But for now, I respect the privacy of these two good friends of mine, and wish them nothing but success.
I do know that there a couple or three name brand bow makers that have been in contact with them. Two today.
Any of you guys that live in Ga and are close enough to Covington, give Steve a call at 12 Point Archery. Ph# is 770-784-1111, ext 2. The store hours are Mon-Fri 9:00 til 6:00, and Sat from 9 til 4. If you are able, go by and ask for a demonstration. I know at least 10 people came by today. Take it any way you wish, but it is coming.............................


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## Dugga Boy

alligood729 said:


> Thanks Mitch!!! It does nothing to a bow that many other aftermarket devices already do that would void the warranty. The greatest effect on my bow was a 1/4" deflection (more) on the limbs, which in effect is basically the same thing as cranking the limb bolts down to gain poundage. [...]


Sounds realistic.
So the extra energy is coming through more limb deflection?
I just wonder how you do this without increasing peak draw weight.

Well, I will be patient and waiting for it to come. 

DB


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## alligood729

Dugga Boy said:


> Sounds realistic.
> So the extra energy is coming through more limb deflection?
> I just wonder how you do this without increasing peak draw weight.
> 
> Well, I will be patient and waiting for it to come.
> 
> DB


Thanks Dugga Boy!! The limb deflection was only on my bow, I didn't ask or see any measurements for any other models or brands. I do know that the owner of that PSE bow wanted one today!!!


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## bowaholic77

A long as this gadget doesnt have negative affects that archers complain about........Cam lean, nock travel, cable wear, extra weight, noisy, ect. ect., then I think you will have a goldmine on your hands and I will buy one:wink:


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## the hound dog

Look here if you don't believe just sit back and wait. I was there last night it is true and it works. I will tell you when he puts them up for sell I will buy two. I have a 26in draw and it's hard for me to get the speed I want with out heavy poundage and this thing will help me.


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## BULLDOG25

You have my attention. Any info on how it works??


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## Rebelroot

How does it affect the draw??? Is it stiffer, or does it feel like you are drawing more weight or any difference at all???


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## Pearsonguy305

*and yall are putting alot into what is said on GON*

oh please now ya really done stirred the pot.those guys over there dont like the truth or they rather have things sugar coated,, or better yet they like to play computer rambo wars, banning folks because of personal reasons. this forum is way higher class, and there paper magazine ain that great either, so its tit for tat on wha is said on GON.IMO


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## alligood729

Rebelroot said:


> How does it affect the draw??? Is it stiffer, or does it feel like you are drawing more weight or any difference at all???


It didn't affect the draw on my X Force at all, but I didn't do much adjustment with the position of this thing. At full adjustment, I think it may add a pound or two of holding weight, but am not sure. All I know is what it did for my personal bow, and the other ones that I saw adjusted for myself.


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## Pearsonguy305

*Pitcures can be posted*

they said all paperwork has been filed, so lets pony up the pitcures,also they can tell us the aplication number of the provisional being filed, they give you a patent application number. I ll have wi do a patent search monday for such a design, if somone dont post a pitcure.I mean if we gonna talk about at this is, then lets see the proof, i mean yall brought it out here, now lets see it.


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## The Arrow Guru

*The only thing I have involved in this is to say I knew back when!*

What I have to say is that this is real. I know Steve and Bernard and they have got something here. I know hound dog, as honest of a guy as there is. He has no reason to embelish here. I know that you want pictured and what not, but hold on to your britches.
What I do know is that is that at the most it might add 1lb to 1.5lb to you holding weight. There has been bow manufacters calling, Hoyt rep has seen it and had a fit. It works, will be aviable, and you gonna love it. I was teased about this before it was eveb shown to us locals, I had to wait til I could see it, you will too. If you are close enuff to get by 12 point archery, go see for your self. I will also put $1,000 up that it is real.


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## DFA

My bet is that it is a captured cable slide located on a shortened cable guard rod. PSE had one back in the late seventies, early eighties. The cable guard was about 4-5inches shorter than normal and the cables were pulled toward the bow and located in a cable slide that did not move. It effectively lowered the let off percentage, increased the poundage a small amount, pre bent the limbs more and you gained some fps. :wink:
I could be all wrong but just my guess.
DFA


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## alligood729

*Now, now,*

I thought me and you were getting along just fine thru pm's, but you can't seem to leave the picture thing alone. Well, they will be open at 9:00 in the morning til 4 tomorrow afternoon, and I've already posted the ph#, so give them a call. They'll be more than happy to talk to you. It is their option to let me post a pic, and just now they choose not to, and wont' be pressured to. We might just wait til the discussions with the big boys are past and then post one.:wink::wink::wink:


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## alligood729

DFA said:


> My bet is that it is a captured cable slide located on a shortened cable guard rod. PSE had one back in the late seventies, early eighties. The cable guard was about 4-5inches shorter than normal and the cables were pulled toward the bow and located in a cable slide that did not move. It effectively lowered the let off percentage, increased the poundage a small amount, pre bent the limbs more and you gained some fps. :wink:
> I could be all wrong but just my guess.
> DFA


Good try, but no cigar!!:zip::zip::zip:


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## alligood729

bigrnyrs said:


> What I have to say is that this is real. I know Steve and Bernard and they have got something here. I know hound dog, as honest of a guy as there is. He has no reason to embelish here. I know that you want pictured and what not, but hold on to your britches.
> What I do know is that is that at the most it might add 1lb to 1.5lb to you holding weight. There has been bow manufacters calling, Hoyt rep has seen it and had a fit. It works, will be aviable, and you gonna love it. I was teased about this before it was eveb shown to us locals, I had to wait til I could see it, you will too. If you are close enuff to get by 12 point archery, go see for your self. I will also put $1,000 up that it is real.


Thanks man!!!


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## alligood729

*Another example from one customer!!! (From the GON.com site)*

I tried this on my bow today at Steve's shop at 12 Point. My bow is a PSE Nitro shooting at 70 lbs at 370 grain arrow I was shooting 287 fps. My KE is 67.68. Putting Steve's new device on my bow and shooting a 380 grain arrow my bow shot 318 fps and my KE increased to 85.34. Guys this is no Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- it really works! Any questions call Steve at 12 Point Archery in Covington, GA - go in and try it, it really works!


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## Pearsonguy305

*ok your right, we will just wait*

its fine, But ill bet this has been tried before, in some design form, but its thier option to post pics, maybe ill see it soon, if i wasnt workign tomrrow id drive up and see it in person. maybe next wekeend im off, id liek to see it, not that id need anythign like that on my bow, speed isnt where its at IMO, its shot placement. Too many have gotten caught up in speed, I mean there is such a thing as goign too far, I can get all the speed i need on my bows, without adding anything more on my bow, plus there is the question of warranty, or voiding warranty. so i can leave this thread alone till i see it first hand, i wish them luck tho, i was just tryign to get some insight, and see pitcures.


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## badbow148

Will all the bow manuf. warranty there bows after putting this device on.


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## mikel m14

I would check it out if I lived closer to Covington. Now if only we had some pictures.:wink: So is it going to be around $75 like the member on GON said?


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## badbow148

If it is makeing bows shoot that much faster 30fps there has to be more stress on bow over all and there is some bows having enough limb problems and may some that has not had any if very little.


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## wis_archer

You said *average* speed increase of 18 fps...

In other words, the bow speed is not consistant? If I am understanding this correctly, then how is it an advantage to shoot a bow that doesn't have a consistant speed?


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## roybivins

wis_archer said:


> You said *average* speed increase of 18 fps...
> 
> In other words, the bow speed is not consistant? If I am understanding this correctly, then how is it an advantage to shoot a bow that doesn't have a consistant speed?



I think what they are saying is that on all the bows they used this on the average of all them was 18, not 18 one shot and something else the next on the same bow.


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## wis_archer

alligood729 said:


> I know, I know, you've heard it before. "This new gizmo will speed your bow up.......etc." WELL, I have seen it with my own eyes, have one on my bow, and have seen the evidence on several other models as well. *I shoot an X Force 6, set at 27", set at 60lbs, 350gr arrow. The stock bow was shooting 295fps average. Without changing any of the bow's specs, we put this thing on my bow, and immediately got an increase of 18fps avg!!!* The biggest change I saw was on a Hoyt Celena. Set at 45lbs, shooting the same target arrow, it went from 265fps to 301!! Now, I know that there will be a lot of doubters, a lot of questions, because new products promise all kinds of things. Well, this one can deliver. It will be available in camo, and anodized target colors. Production hasn't started yet, because we are making sure all the "t"s are crossed, and the "i"s dotted. I actually witnessed a stock X Force 7 get an increase of 30fps, and that ain't no bull. I can't go into too many details yet, but keep your eyes and ears open. I'll be posting further updates from time to time, depending on the production schedule, and maybe a few tweaks here and there!!! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up


He says he got an average speed increase there...


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*I dont think there will be any warranty problems.*

From waht I understand there have been several bow companies calling Steve for info on this little product. Course on AT, there are plenty of na sayers that have to poo poo anything at all, regardless of what it is. 
Been too many people that have posted here and on GON that I know and trust who have also seen the results. You guys just wait and see. Steve and Benard are not dumb, part of developing a product would consist of getting feedback and information from major bow manufacters. If you do it right. I'm in sales and marketing amd asked Steve a few question, to try and help them protect themselves, and trust me they have thought this thru. At least from my particular knowlege base. I'm sure if they have been as thorough there, they have been that way with everything else. Tell'em alligood, they "straight cash homie".


----------



## alligood729

wis_archer said:


> You said *average* speed increase of 18 fps...
> 
> In other words, the bow speed is not consistant? If I am understanding this correctly, then how is it an advantage to shoot a bow that doesn't have a consistant speed?





roybivins said:


> I think what they are saying is that on all the bows they used this on the average of all them was 18, not 18 one shot and something else the next on the same bow.


Good point! I spent most of the day there and shot mine many times, just checking and rechecking. All said and done, mine got a consistent 15fps increase, from 295fps to 310. Now the other post I pasted here, from the guy that brought the older PSE in, he got an honest 31fps increase over his stock set up. From 287fps to 318. I watched them shoot shot after shot thru the chrono. Different rest setups, a short BH, could make a difference in some bow's performance. The ph# is posted, and Steve said "Call me!"


----------



## alligood729

bigrnyrs said:


> From waht I understand there have been several bow companies calling Steve for info on this little product. Course on AT, there are plenty of na sayers that have to poo poo anything at all, regardless of what it is.
> Been too many people that have posted here and on GON that I know and trust who have also seen the results. You guys just wait and see. Steve and Benard are not dumb, part of developing a product would consist of getting feedback and information from major bow manufacters. If you do it right. I'm in sales and marketing amd asked Steve a few question, to try and help them protect themselves, and trust me they have thought this thru. At least from my particular knowlege base. I'm sure if they have been as thorough there, they have been that way with everything else. Tell'em alligood, they "straight cash homie".


:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## thirdypointer

Hope they keep the cost affordable so the majority of us can afford this new toy! So, how much longer you gonna string us along?


----------



## Sky Warrior

Maybe this is how Mathews will speed up their bows? LOL :darkbeer: Likely not unless they are ditching the roller guard.


----------



## thirdypointer

Sky Warrior said:


> Maybe this is how Mathews will speed up their bows? LOL :darkbeer: Likely not unless they are ditching the roller guard.


Possible as i heard their ditching their solocam  to get some speed finally!


----------



## Dugga Boy

DFA said:


> My bet is that it is a captured cable slide located on a shortened cable guard rod. PSE had one back in the late seventies, early eighties. The cable guard was about 4-5inches shorter than normal and the cables were pulled toward the bow and located in a cable slide that did not move. It effectively lowered the let off percentage, increased the poundage a small amount, pre bent the limbs more and you gained some fps. :wink:
> I could be all wrong but just my guess.
> DFA


Maybe not shorter but maybe somekind of a "springloaded" cable slide.

Optimized efficieny by reducing friction wouldn't cause such a large increase of arrow speed. So there must me another device next o the limbs which stores the energy. Or at least a device which causes the limbs to store more energy.
Makes me really curious. Cool gimmick for sure.:tongue:

DB

PS: Make sure I'm the first one who got one here in Europe. ...or two, three...


----------



## Bnbfishin

Even a rough estimate as to when this thing will be available? It's a B**** when someone likes to tinker with new gadgets epsi:


----------



## alligood729

Bnbfishin said:


> Even a rough estimate as to when this thing will be available? It's a B**** when someone likes to tinker with new gadgets epsi:


Probably in the next month or less. Last minute details such as cosmetics, packaging, finalizing the logo, etc........... I have had a blast playing with the proto I have.:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*so u have this photo huh*

im heading up this weeek to see this thing guys and ill get ya all the info you need,ill get this thing laaid to rest, i have work to do up that way , so ill knock two birds out with one stone, i have had enough of the teasin.


----------



## DFINN

*Inve$tor$*

Is it possible to invest to better this product?


----------



## thirdypointer

Another day and still nothing? You mine as well spill the beans if these guys are showing it to the public in their shop, it will only be a matter of time now before someone post on it if it really is all that! :wink:


----------



## rutnstrut

Guys/gals could it be that this device works something like the Crank on the new Ross carnivore. I know it wouldn't be exactly the same but similar,if this has been said i appologize.


----------



## alligood729

Pearsonguy305 said:


> im heading up this weeek to see this thing guys and ill get ya all the info you need,ill get this thing laaid to rest, i have work to do up that way , so ill knock two birds out with one stone, i have had enough of the teasin.


Make sure you give me a tentative time that you will be at the shop, I want to be there when you see it work. As far as "gettin all the info ya'll need" that remains to be seen. Attitude is everything.:wink:


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*where did you park your squad car Dick Tracy*



Pearsonguy305 said:


> im heading up this weeek to see this thing guys and ill get ya all the info you need,ill get this thing laaid to rest, i have work to do up that way , so ill knock two birds out with one stone, i have had enough of the teasin.


There will be a Fox 5 exclusive after this! lol
Be patient guys you will be able to have one if you want one. If you don't, prolly one of your buddies will just so you can see it. Remember it isnt just about speed. It's about being able to shoot lower poundage, eavier arrows, having more options. I love the build up though. I put something on another site and got blasted right from the start. Like 80% sarcasm and negitave, but a few positive. I can't wait til everybody sees it so I can gloat a little over there. I will prabably get blacklisted. I didn't try to solicit over there I was just giving some info. But that is what you get sometimes.


----------



## rutnstrut

I am pumped about this product because for someone like me with a 26"DLto26.5 it is hard to get the speed and KE @ 70LBS that I want. This may just give me that FPS I lose from the stumpy arms I was born with. I am even more excited about putting one on the new speed bow that I get, unless I get the new Mathews of course. Imagine the Pearson TX4 with new cams crackerized @26.5 315fps and add this gizmo with the avg of 18 fps =338 fps approx. I could either shooth heavy arrows and get the KE like I have only dreamed of,or drop it down to a comfortable 63lbs and still be well over 300fps. Come on guys now I am really getting pumped get this thing into production.


----------



## archery ham

Will any current items on a typical bow have to be removed/modified at an added fee?

If the 3/8 cable guard is the only criteria, what about the Muzzy Arrow Zero Effect arrow rests that is attached to the cable slide? Will this be affected?


----------



## bowtech dually

It must have something to do with a device that loads energy due to the upward and downward movement of the cables, sort of like a coil spring effect on the cables returning them to their static position quicker thus increasing the rotation of the cams. AM I CLOSE

BD


----------



## hayseedpaddy

*You Know It Is Going To Be Good!*

Watching this thread is like watching two girls in tube tops fighting. You know you are fixin' to see something good. Steve is great guy and in time all will see. Until then lets all just calmly wait. Best of wishes Paddy


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*i cant wait to see*

if i cant go beofre saturday ill call and see where steve will be


----------



## X-SHOOTER

Really this thread should have waited until you could give some info, or pics. Kind of like running around on the playground yelling "I've got a secret", "I've got a secret", "I've got a secret":wink:, jk, but at least you got everybodies attention if nothing else! Seriously though good luck with your product, hope it works out!!!!!!:tongue:


----------



## mathewsgirl13

being a woman with a short draw length and has a hard time getting the speed I need... you guys have my attention on this product.... Please keep me informed when it goes on the "market"


----------



## the hound dog

mathewsgirl13 said:


> being a woman with a short draw length and has a hard time getting the speed I need... you guys have my attention on this product.... Please keep me informed when it goes on the "market"


It will help up short draw length people Woman or Man for sure.


----------



## Huaco

Hey... Didn't a couple of boys from GA find Bigfoot a few months ago!


----------



## archery ham

hayseedpaddy said:


> Watching this thread is like watching two girls in tube tops fighting. You know you are fixin' to see something good. Steve is great guy and in time all will see. Until then lets all just calmly wait. Best of wishes Paddy


Great analogy.....and imagery too. :lol:


----------



## alligood729

hayseedpaddy said:


> Watching this thread is like watching two girls in tube tops fighting. You know you are fixin' to see something good. Steve is great guy and in time all will see. Until then lets all just calmly wait. Best of wishes Paddy


Thanks Paddy!!!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## bigmo101

Don'tmind me, I'm just posting something to subscribe to this thread:wink::blob1:


----------



## NewburgFarmboy

I cant wait:zip::zip::zip::zip::zip::zip:


----------



## 500 fps

What part of Georgia are you in? It may be close enough for a little road trip.


----------



## Desert Southpaw

Bring it ON!!! I want some more KE/Speed too. 
HELP!!!! My wallet pocket is on fire.
Show me the Kick-It-Up Kit.  :wink:


----------



## Devilfan

Approximately how much will this item sell for? Where is it going to be available?


----------



## Huaco

500 fps said:


> What part of Georgia are you in? It may be close enough for a little road trip.


You let me know if you take a trip down there. I may split the gas with you. Be interesting to see if this thing really works...


----------



## 500 fps

I just checked and Social Circle is about 2.5 hours from Easley. I would probably make the trip if I could actually get one, but I don't know about just looking.


----------



## Huaco

500 fps said:


> I just checked and Social Circle is about 2.5 hours from Easley. I would probably make the trip if I could actually get one, but I don't know about just looking.


Yep... my thoughts exactly. I don't want to drive 2.5 hours for a dog-and-pony show. :wink: I want the goods!

[geez... am I turning into one of those gadget-freak archers?]


----------



## alligood729

Just hang on guys, there is a possibility that pre-orders will be accepted in a week or so. I can't state that without a doubt, but that is what was discussed today. I appreciate the good response, and meant this thread to be a teaser, and I think it worked! I was at the shop this morning and the PSE Rep came by. I'll not post any results from the tests we ran this morning on a couple of new bows. To say that he was impressed is an understatement. I can also appreciate any skepticism, because I too am a "put it in my hands" type of guy. I have one, so my skepticism is nonexistent. Thanks for the patience, you won't be disappointed!!


----------



## Bnbfishin

If you go there I want to know as soon as you get back what the deal is  Not that my X-Force needs to go faster since it's already doing 314 @ 27" 70lbs 362 grain arrow but I might be tempted to give it a whirl just so I can say I tried it epsi:


Huaco said:


> Yep... my thoughts exactly. I don't want to drive 2.5 hours for a dog-and-pony show. :wink: I want the goods!
> 
> [geez... am I turning into one of those gadget-freak archers?]


----------



## drockw

Well... Now they have to design something to help out the roller cable bows. They have pretty much eliminated Mathews adn Bowtech so that is a large majority of people. I would love to see an 82nd with this new thing on there. If it really does work great and people do get good results, i might buy an Alpha MAx 35 and put that on it. I would love to see a realistic 330-340fps out of one of those bows. Im interested to see it now for sure.
Derek


----------



## alligood729

drockw said:


> Well... Now they have to design something to help out the roller cable bows. They have pretty much eliminated Mathews adn Bowtech so that is a large majority of people. I would love to see an 82nd with this new thing on there. If it really does work great and people do get good results, i might buy an Alpha MAx 35 and put that on it. I would love to see a realistic 330-340fps out of one of those bows. Im interested to see it now for sure.
> Derek


That idea for the roller guard bows is simmering around already!!:zip: I do know that while the Hoyt Rep was in the store, they installed one on an Alpha Max, 28" and 60lbs, shooting an arrow that was in the "extra" arrows bucket, 368grs, it shot 336gfps. How's that?


----------



## Huaco

Bnbfishin said:


> If you go there I want to know as soon as you get back what the deal is  Not that my X-Force needs to go faster since it's already doing 314 @ 27" 70lbs 362 grain arrow but I might be tempted to give it a whirl just so I can say I tried it epsi:


If I get a look at it... I will be sure to let you know Billy...


----------



## GWN_Nuge

Holy cow! A buddy of mine would have a stroke if my old spiraled ultratec with one of these gizmos blew the doors off his 82nd muwhaa haaa haaaa!!!

On a more serious note... have you encountered any tuning issues that have cropped up with this?


----------



## alligood729

GWN_Nuge said:


> Holy cow! A buddy of mine would have a stroke if my old spiraled ultratec with one of these gizmos blew the doors off his 82nd muwhaa haaa haaaa!!!
> 
> On a more serious note... have you encountered any tuning issues that have cropped up with this?


No tuning issues at all. Other than resetting my pins when I picked up 15fps more!!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## Huaco

alligood729 said:


> No tuning issues at all. Other than resetting my pins when I picked up 15fps more!!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


Have you tried them on any Martin bows? I shoot a FireCAT.


----------



## String Twister

You now have me interested as long as it isn't big and bulky with cords hanging all over.


----------



## Q2DEATH

String Twister said:


> You now have me interested as long as it isn't big and bulky with cords hanging all over.


Bingo. Thats exactly what I'm waiting to see. That speed doesn't mean anything if you've got some giant, cumbersome gizmo stuck on the side of your bow.


----------



## alligood729

String Twister said:


> You now have me interested as long as it isn't big and bulky with cords hanging all over.





Q2DEATH said:


> Bingo. Thats exactly what I'm waiting to see. That speed doesn't mean anything if you've got some giant, cumbersome gizmo stuck on the side of your bow.


Not big and bulky, no cords to worry about!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up It's actually pretty streamlined and looks good as well.


----------



## Huaco

alligood729 said:


> Not big and bulky, no cords to worry about!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up It's actually pretty streamlined and looks good as well.


I've got a mental picture of how this thing might work and if I am right... then DANGIT! Why didn't I think of that!:wink:


----------



## tman704

Can't wait to see this "gadget"


----------



## EricO

My luck this contraption will probably work and I'm saddled with bow that has a roller guard.


----------



## terryracing86

how about pics already :darkbeer:


----------



## bowtech dually

alligood729 said:


> Not big and bulky, no cords to worry about!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up It's actually pretty streamlined and looks good as well.


alligood729 was I on the right track in post #95

BD


----------



## bigmo101

Does it make the limb work harder? Put more stress on the string? I would like to add 10 to 30 fps on my Conquest 2. Does it mess with the warranty of the bow? If the answer is no to all questions, it sounds like one heck of a product!!!!!


----------



## alligood729

bowtech dually said:


> alligood729 was I on the right track in post #95
> 
> BD


My lips are...........:zip::zip::zip::zip::zip::zip::zip:


----------



## johnno

Mmmm..now thats an interesting response..as it aint a definitive "No"....:wink::wink:


----------



## Huaco

You guys can't take pre-orders w/out letting it out of the bag though... Guess we will see this thing soon enough.


----------



## alligood729

johnno said:


> Mmmm..now thats an interesting response..as it aint a definitive "No"....:wink::wink:


He has a good guess but.................. "no cigar!":wink::wink:


----------



## paarchhntr

Sign me up for one!!! :rock-on:

In fact if it works that good I will need two!!!


----------



## the hound dog

Yall are like a kid in the candy store. Bunch of speed freaks.
Every one just com down it will be here soon. Just let the man get every thing in order.


----------



## archeryxXx

ok so is this thing a roller guard that is put on the cable rod???? then you set it back or forward changing the preload of the limb? if so it has been done before you will gain speed. but you gain lbs. and draw length. not alot but you do.


----------



## stixshooter

Sounds interesting 2 me ... Good luck guys!


----------



## TheHunt

I was tired of all the crap on this thread... Is there a picture or is this dude full of the brown stuff that comes our of the back end of elk.


----------



## Junior.

Can't wait to see some pics. Sounds like it is going to be a great product. :thumb:


----------



## Drop-Shot

I just registered,getting back into bowhunting after a long time.
Picking up a few fps sounds good.I want one too.


----------



## rutnstrut

rutnstrut said:


> Guys/gals could it be that this device works something like the Crank on the new Ross carnivore. I know it wouldn't be exactly the same but similar,if this has been said i appologize.


So up until I posted this guess the other day when others would make a guess they were shot down quickly. I noticed either mine went un-noticed or I am on the right track and someone is ignoring me. Either that or I am sooo far off base that I don't warrant an answer.


----------



## zee

sounds interesting. can't wait to put one on my bow.


----------



## Rinaldo2

I would like to see a product come out that improves accuracy rather then just speed. Good luck with the product:thumbs_up.


----------



## KDS

Rinaldo2 said:


> I would like to see a product come out that improves accuracy rather then just speed. Good luck with the product:thumbs_up.


This product you speak of is already availble to everyone and it is free for the taking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It's called practice:tongue:

Almost 5000 views on this thread Alligood:thumbs_up


----------



## itchyfinger

I'll take two.


----------



## curley30030x

so.......is this going to go on til April 1, til you fool us all???? PICS PLEASE???...........:wav::wav::wav:


----------



## sawtoothscream

what is it? 

how much?

pictures?


----------



## Caper33

Sounds awesome


----------



## alligood729

rutnstrut said:


> So up until I posted this guess the other day when others would make a guess they were shot down quickly. I noticed either mine went un-noticed or I am on the right track and someone is ignoring me. Either that or I am sooo far off base that I don't warrant an answer.


Sorry rut, but it's not that either. I didn't know what the Crank was til I went to their site to see. I knew I could generate some interest, but never thought it would come to this! Just for everyone's info, we are designing a website right now, and hope to have it online in a couple of weeks. The big boys are lowballing, so the designers will probably go it on their own. When the decision is made on the final product, there will be pictures, and a new website!!! I'm also going to post a poll about opinions on price for such a gadget. Hang on!!!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*i still call it BS*

as many replies and comments and still no pic, and you cant even tell us how it works or what it attches too. ther eis no way this is a on the up thread, if it was and the patent was applied for they could show pics, again once i stated , once they file a provisional patent the idea cant be copied, if it is then they can go after that person or persons as they call them at the patent office as DRI , which is dirty , rotten, infringers. which is a lawsuit. so either show the dang pitcures or let it go, if you need all this to gain attention, thats pretty sad AT shoudl pull the thread.so dont come on here saying you cant post pitcures, as that is straight BS. so put up or shut up is what im saying.to many people play games.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*oh yeah*

tell us the application number where they filed paperwork, you do knwo they give ya one , right?


----------



## alligood729

Pearsonguy305 said:


> as many replies and comments and still no pic, and you cant even tell us how it works or what it attches too. ther eis no way this is a on the up thread, if it was and the patent was applied for they could show pics, again once i stated , once they file a provisional patent the idea cant be copied, if it is then they can go after that person or persons as they call them at the patent office as DRI , which is dirty , rotten, infringers. which is a lawsuit. so either show the dang pitcures or let it go, if you need all this to gain attention, thats pretty sad AT shoudl pull the thread.so dont come on here saying you cant post pitcures, as that is straight BS. so put up or shut up is what im saying.to many people play games.


Buddy, I know who you are now, 07, and we don't have to show you anything. If you can't respect the privacy of the designers, then so be it, but don't come on here trying to intimidate me or them into posting pics of their design. The provisional # is in their hands, so you can quit worrying about that part. So far, you are the only one who is really hard up about the pics. Go back thru the thread and see how much in the minority you are. The great majority are congratulatory and well wishers. These guys are just trying to cover all the bases, and that is their prerogative. The attention this has gathered is tremendous, and that is a good thing. Why don't you get ahold of Rodney or Jim and ask them what they thought of it???:thumbs_up


----------



## the hound dog

Rinaldo2 said:


> I would like to see a product come out that improves accuracy rather then just speed. Good luck with the product:thumbs_up.


Well if you gain speed you can go to a heaver arrow and if I'm right that will help your accuracy.


----------



## the hound dog

Pearsonguy305 said:


> as many replies and comments and still no pic, and you cant even tell us how it works or what it attches too. ther eis no way this is a on the up thread, if it was and the patent was applied for they could show pics, again once i stated , once they file a provisional patent the idea cant be copied, if it is then they can go after that person or persons as they call them at the patent office as DRI , which is dirty , rotten, infringers. which is a lawsuit. so either show the dang pitcures or let it go, if you need all this to gain attention, thats pretty sad AT shoudl pull the thread.so dont come on here saying you cant post pitcures, as that is straight BS. so put up or shut up is what im saying.to many people play games.


Your not a very nice person and people should frown on people like you.:thumbs_do:moon:
The man was asked not to show pics. and he respects that.


----------



## possum trapper

whats the point of coming on here and stating anything when your not suppose to let the cat out of the bag???????????????????????????
PROmotion is a killer.I have no problem people with new products thats awesome but NO ONE has nothing beside speculation


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*thats all i saying*

if you gonna come on a forum and talk abotu a product and how great it is, lets see the proof, and as far as you knowing who i am, then you will know im a too the point type man i dont beat around the bush at anything, if you want things sugar coated but on your apron and get in the kitchen, but dont come on here talkign up a product and not put up some kinda proof its a a real deal, and if it is a product and it works hey ill be first to give high fives, and im not the only one that wants pics, you might wanna go back and re read all the replies yourself. Yoy are making mor eout of fileing the p aper work than it is, as i said i knwo the patent laws , so if its filed they have no worries, i mean they have more worries abotu showing it to a individual than they would posting a pitcure. what did they file it under, ill just do a search, who was the one who filed it at least give us that.


----------



## AkNomad

Good things come to those who wait........:thumbs_up


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*first of all lets dont turn i this on a gang up on me*

im merley wanting proof it exsist, nothing more. you are the one who started the thread, i mean so really, you can turn this around on me if ya want, i state it as i see it, personally, i dont need a gadget added to my bow to speed it up, shot placement is where its at, if you shoot 3d you can only shoot so fast, and for hunting the deer dont knwo or care how fast the arrow went threw it. many of us who have hunted for years have taken deer with bows that are were way slower than what we currently shoot now.
so if all it offers is more speed, its not likely, something alot of us would want. speed is one thing , but being able to hit what ya aiming at is another, chuch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## joe4blow

i have to agree with pearson... i think this should all get deleted.. the whole post... when they are ready to show some pics or tell how it works then start a new one.. these few pages do nothing but take up space.. If there is nothing tangible then delete it.. 


pming a mod..


----------



## archery ham

Come on guys......be patient.


----------



## johnno

Pearsonguy305 said:


> what did they file it under, ill just do a search, who was the one who filed it at least give us that.


Why should he..just to abate your cureosity ??....now just be a good boy and be patient like the rest of us..and all will be revealed..


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*im trying, lets*

see some kinda proof its is a real product, i mean lets move on, look im the most pateint guys there is, but all i asked for was somethign to prove it exsist, im not the bad guy, if i came on here saying i could do soemthign by god im gonna show you im gonna do it, I mean if ya gonna talk the talk, lets walk the walk, and get on with it. 
I was just told that they couldnt do no pics becasue they couldnt til paper work was filed, now they told us paperwork was filed, and i knwo if thats the case he can show pics.all this na na ni boo boo crap i seen it or i got one is for the chickens.


----------



## johnno

Pearsonguy305 said:


> so if all it offers is more speed, its not likely, something alot of us would want. speed is one thing , but being able to hit what ya aiming at is another, chuch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


No I think your missing the point..its also about making the bow more efficient..and being able to reduce the lbs and still get the same speed..and I suspect that many here may find that a very attractive proposition..cheers..:darkbeer:


----------



## curley30030x

*Waste of time!!!*

I just wasted 20 minutes of my life reading this thread!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you post up and get people excited about something that is sill just an IDEA??? And if the IDEA was so awesome as to make a bow MORE EFFICIENT, why didnt these MULTI MILLION DOLLAR bow companies think of it??? Bows are more than able, and dont need them. 

I Bet this was thought up by 3 guys in the Garage drinking cheap beer:darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer: trying to entertain us here on AT. What a WASTE OF A POST!

I vote to delete it, and allow it back up when the author actually HAS GADGET to share!!


----------



## the hound dog

It's funny you don't like all the talk on this thread but you keep coming back. If you don't want to wait go to the store and see it for your self and if you don't like all the talk quit coming on this thread. Your just taking up space.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*Lol*

you r funny, i come to hang out i could careless i got great bows that i get all the speed i need . i am curious to how this will void warranties on soem bows, tho as when they set ibo speed specs thats how they will warranty bows, its kinda liek shootign your bow with too lite a rrow and then file a warranty on yous limbs. NOT.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*if ya wanna pull light pounds*

pull light pounds and change arrows til you find the right set up, come on guys do better than that for a reason for a product, heck i just had shoudler surgrey back in march and i can pull what ever weight i choose. dang. this thread shoudl be pulled im glad im not the only one who agrees with that, pull it til there is something for sure on it and pitcures or better eyt heck put it on you tube, everyone else does.


----------



## bbs383ci

*BT general*

will this thing work woth a BT general or am i one of the few that i just wasted a bunch of time reading just to find out that it wont work with my bow because there wasnt any details about the item


----------



## KDS

the hound dog said:


> And he keeps coming back.:darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer:
> 
> This the type of guy you want to shoot for you.


Tell me about it


----------



## the hound dog

And he keeps coming back.:darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer:

This the type of guy you want to shoot for you.


----------



## alligood729

curley30030x said:


> I just wasted 20 minutes of my life reading this thread!!!!!!!!!!!
> Why would you post up and get people excited about something that is sill just an IDEA??? And if the IDEA was so awesome as to make a bow MORE EFFICIENT, why didnt these MULTI MILLION DOLLAR bow companies think of it??? Bows are more than able, and dont need them.
> 
> I Bet this was thought up by 3 guys in the Garage drinking cheap beer:darkbeer::darkbeer::darkbeer: trying to entertain us here on AT. What a WASTE OF A POST!
> 
> I vote to delete it, and allow it back up when the author actually HAS GADGET to share!!


I'll answer yours. It is not "just an idea". I have one on my X Force. It does just as I said. For now, it will only work on bows that utilize a 3/8" cable rod. The roller guard bows will have to wait their turn. The design for that is in the works too. Just FYI, there are two of those "multi million dollar bow companies" that are talking with the designers already. They saw something that they liked. If that works out, you can buy one from them. My buddies are waiting on a couple of small final details that need to be worked out. Packaging, cosmetics, (like camo patterns, they have to be licensed from the company). There is also a website under construction, just for this product. Did I start the thread too early?? Maybe. But you got to admit, it accomplished exactly what I wanted. People are asking questions. That was the whole point. Should I have waited a little longer???? Maybe. But it won't be long and all the doubters will have their precious pictures. The two bow company reps that saw this thing in action are long time veterans of the archery industry, probably 60yrs between the two of them. They have seen things come and go. To say that they were impressed is an understatement. If you don't want to come here without pictures, stay off until I get their OK to do so. Thanks to all the well wishers, and we appreciate the good words. Later!!


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*let me straighhtend this out*

for the two guys , who question why i shoot for others, is because of how i knwo a product and i knwo how to promote one, one that actually exsist , so dont start questioning me, i mean it susally those that get mad with me cause they arent on any staff spots. i mean dang guys dont go hateing this is a forum with all of us being able to voice opinions. so dont start and change this thread to someone on a personal level, i mean are we gonna start name calling geez


----------



## MaDsHaFtA

Hey guys, new to the site, and well had to register, just to say, Good on the guys for the development of something for Bowhunting. And a BIG BooHOo to the sooks that have got a bee in there bonnet, about not seeing a pic. They dont want to let it out until everything is finalised, Thats up to them!! If my kids acted like the childish baboons like some of the users in here I would have gave them a boot up the backside, WAKE up, Let it ride, It will be out when its out!!!!:angry:


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*lol*

i think AT shoudl come up with a way to check IPs and not allow multiple users names, and the name calling is so grown up.LMAO


----------



## XTFreak

I have to say I'am finding this hard to believe without physical proof.
And NO I' am driving to the shop to have a look.
A bit far of a drive for me...
Bill


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*ok ive had enough*

yall have fun with this guy, no more presence for me on this thread, its not worthy of me.


----------



## TOOL

joe4blow said:


> i have to agree with pearson... i think this should all get deleted.. the whole post... when they are ready to show some pics or tell how it works then start a new one.. these few pages do nothing but take up space.. If there is nothing tangible then delete it..
> 
> 
> pming a mod..





curley30030x said:


> I vote to delete it, and allow it back up when the author actually HAS GADGET to share!!


Why? What rules are being broken?



Pearsonguy305 said:


> yall have fun with this guy, no more presence for me on this thread, its not worthy of me.


OK. :angel:


----------



## alligood729

TOOL said:


> Why? What rules are being broken?
> 
> 
> 
> OK. :angel:


Thank you my friend, I just read the rules, and none are being broken. Those that have a problem with this thread, there are thousands more that are probably more worthy of their time!:tongue::tongue::tongue:


----------



## TOOL

Oh yeah, to the OP.....I wish your buddies lots of luck. I have my doubts about how it works, but that of course is due to my own assumptions.

Intriguing nonetheless:teeth:


----------



## joe4blow

TOOL said:


> Why? What rules are being broken?
> 
> 
> 
> OK. :angel:


Cause this thread is useless... there is nothing here but guys saying they have this great thing... but i can not tell you more or show you... it is in the section for Manufacturer Announcements and Press Releases.... well where is it then... I say show something or move it or delete it... You can start a new one when you have something to share... 


You could take this thread as an attempt to harass people.... and that is against the rules.. Other posts that get like this with nothing to show get deleted... I think this one should too...


----------



## DimeTimeTom

whats useless is the immature bashing of these people and their idea THAT is useless...


----------



## KDS

joe4blow said:


> Cause this thread is useless... there is nothing here but guys saying they have this great thing... but i can not tell you more or show you... it is in the section for Manufacturer Announcements and Press Releases.... well where is it then... I say show something or move it or delete it... You can start a new one when you have something to share...
> 
> 
> You could take this thread as an attempt to harass people.... and that is against the rules.. Other posts that get like this with nothing to show get deleted... I think this one should too...



What???????? Harass people It is pretty easy to just not click on the thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Never thought of that.
I think Alligood is handling this like he should, tons of copycats in this game. And one more thing, some of the negative posts from individuals towards Alligood could be construde as "Harassment"


----------



## alligood729

joe4blow said:


> Cause this thread is useless... there is nothing here but guys saying they have this great thing... but i can not tell you more or show you... it is in the section for Manufacturer Announcements and Press Releases.... well where is it then... I say show something or move it or delete it... You can start a new one when you have something to share...
> 
> 
> You could take this thread as an attempt to harass people.... and that is against the rules.. Other posts that get like this with nothing to show get deleted... I think this one should too...


Nobody twisted your's or anybody else's arm to keep coming to this thread. The rules state "announcements, toot your horn, congratulations, etc...." Nothing about pics. I have done as I was asked by the designers. If you have no respect for me about that, at least have some respect for their wishes. If a moderator contacts me and asks that I close it, I will. I think my point has been made. When you see it, you won't believe how simple it is, and why someone hasn't thought of it already. It's coming, oh yes, whether thru the internet first or thru one of the major players. That is another reason why pics are not here. While the proto is in the hands of a bow maker, we respect their wishes as well while they negotiate. If that is hard for someone to understand, oh well, that is your prerogative. You gotta admit, it was meant as a teaser to get some insight as to what people think, and what they might be interested in. IT WORKED!!!


----------



## joe4blow

KDS said:


> What???????? Harass people It is pretty easy to just not click on the thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Never thought of that.
> I think Alligood is handling this like he should, tons of copycats in this game. And one more thing, some of the negative posts from individuals towards Alligood could be construde as "Harassment"




good delete it all cause it has too much harassment... :thumbs_up

also in the rules it says that posting false info is a violation.. so he better hope it is for real... :tongue:

but for real.. if there is nothing but talk this thread has run its course long ago...


----------



## joe4blow

alligood729 said:


> Nobody twisted your's or anybody else's arm to keep coming to this thread. The rules state "announcements, toot your horn, congratulations, etc...." Nothing about pics. I have done as I was asked by the designers. If you have no respect for me about that, at least have some respect for their wishes. If a moderator contacts me and asks that I close it, I will. I think my point has been made. When you see it, you won't believe how simple it is, and why someone hasn't thought of it already. It's coming, oh yes, whether thru the internet first or thru one of the major players. That is another reason why pics are not here. While the proto is in the hands of a bow maker, we respect their wishes as well while they negotiate. If that is hard for someone to understand, oh well, that is your prerogative. You gotta admit, it was meant as a teaser to get some insight as to what people think, and what they might be interested in. IT WORKED!!!



so admitting it was as a teaser you just admitted to breaking the rules...


----------



## alligood729

joe4blow said:


> so admitting it was as a teaser you just admitted to breaking the rules...


Think whatever you will about me or this thing. I have one on my bow, and that is a cold hard fact. I'm going to sleep!!!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## itchyfinger

Paypal sent.....Thanks Alli!


----------



## FEDIE316

KDS said:


> What???????? Harass people It is pretty easy to just not click on the thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Never thought of that.
> I think Alligood is handling this like he should, tons of copycats in this game. And one more thing, some of the negative posts from individuals towards Alligood could be construde as "Harassment"


Well said, I agree, if you don't want to check this thread for updates, then don't, It's really that simple, but for pete's sake, STOP WHINING!!! :angry:


----------



## CarpCommander

I REALLY think at this point this thread is causing NEGATIVE vibes about you and this 'product', real or not. I wouldn't think this what you want. :thumbs_do

This is supposed to be a place for new product RELEASES, no? Is this being RELEASED, or is it still in the RESEARCH phase? A teaser is one thing, an IDEA is another.

Just curious, how long did/do you expect to string people along before they start getting aggitated? 2 weeks? 6 weeks? 3 months? One MAJOR, and I mean MAAAJOR difference in other manufacturer's 'teasers', is they actually have the product ready for market, and set a realease date. Then suspence is built up in anticipation of that RELEASE date. 

I don't care either way; if it is what you say, I could use it at my 26" draw. If not, then well....

Either way I say POOP, or get off the pot! :tongue:


----------



## SilentSniper

Between this thread and the Matthews thread I can say that I feel sorry for some of you. Guy comes on hear saying he has had first hand dealings with a product that everyone here would buy and use, and you unleash on him like he slapped your momma. There is nothing he has said that has broken any rules. The whinners have what turned this thread to crap. My kids don't cry as much as some of you. :thumbs_do


----------



## longtandan

silentsniper said:


> between this thread and the matthews thread i can say that i feel sorry for some of you. Guy comes on hear saying he has had first hand dealings with a product that everyone here would buy and use, and you unleash on him like he slapped your momma. There is nothing he has said that has broken any rules. The whinners have what turned this thread to crap. My kids don't cry as much as some of you. :thumbs_do


+1


----------



## DXTFREAK

So Mathews said Monster XLR8 is what 360 and you said about 15 to 30 so that means 375. Wait a minute with 30 that would be 390= SICK SICK SICK. Haha Jk not a fanboy either


----------



## johnno

SilentSniper said:


> My kids don't cry as much as some of you. :thumbs_do


Ditto to that. I can't believe the petulance displayed by some of the adults on this forum. We ALL want to see the "thing"..but ease up.. just be patient..its a virtue you know !!........cheers..:darkbeer:


----------



## tmolina

DXTFREAK said:


> So Mathews said Monster XLR8 is what 360 and you said about 15 to 30 so that means 375. Wait a minute with 30 that would be 390= SICK SICK SICK. Haha Jk not a fanboy either


Won't work in any Mathews with a roller cablegaurd!! But it can go on a Pearson TX-4 and go from 361 to 376


----------



## tmolina

*ttt*



DXTFREAK said:


> So Mathews said Monster XLR8 is what 360 and you said about 15 to 30 so that means 375. Wait a minute with 30 that would be 390= SICK SICK SICK. Haha Jk not a fanboy either


Won't work in any Mathews with a roller cablegaurd!! But it can go on a Pearson TX-4 and go from 361 to 376


----------



## tmolina

*ttt*



DXTFREAK said:


> So Mathews said Monster XLR8 is what 360 and you said about 15 to 30 so that means 375. Wait a minute with 30 that would be 390= SICK SICK SICK. Haha Jk not a fanboy either


Won't work on any Mathews with a roller cablegaurd!! But it can go on a Pearson TX-4 and go from 361 to 376


----------



## alligood729

LookMa-NoHands! said:


> I REALLY think at this point this thread is causing NEGATIVE vibes about you and this 'product', real or not. I wouldn't think this what you want. :thumbs_do
> 
> This is supposed to be a place for new product RELEASES, no? Is this being RELEASED, or is it still in the RESEARCH phase? A teaser is one thing, an IDEA is another.
> 
> Just curious, how long did/do you expect to string people along before they start getting aggitated? 2 weeks? 6 weeks? 3 months? One MAJOR, and I mean MAAAJOR difference in other manufacturer's 'teasers', is they actually have the product ready for market, and set a realease date. Then suspence is built up in anticipation of that RELEASE date.
> 
> I don't care either way; if it is what you say, I could use it at my 26" draw. If not, then well....
> 
> Either way I say POOP, or get off the pot! :tongue:


You make a very valid point, and I appreciate this response as much as any of them. To the point, but not negative. I'll make sure I tell the guys that this morning when I go by the shop. A release date makes sense. BUT, look at it this way. These guys have been involved in Archery for over 20yrs each. One is even a two time South African National Champion shooter, and one time World Champion! It ain't like he doesn't understand bows. The other designer is a long time Hoyt staff shooter, and one of the best bow technicians in this state. It was actually his idea, and his partner just happens to have an engineering degree! Put yourself in their shoes. They aren't new to archery, but this is a fairly new arena for them. What if you were sitting around one day, and came up with a new whatchamacallit that would do whatever. You realize after a few days that you really might have something. After a little research and testing, you know for a fact you have a good thing. What would you do?? In all the excitement, maybe we got in a little bit of a hurry. So what? We didn't reinvent the wheel! This is just a neat little device that most will love and some will not. I apologize for putting the cart in front of the horse, but the internet is a far reaching media. All the locals that have seen it have signed a non disclosure agreement, including the two company reps. It would be kind of hard to get one to South Africa or Australia, or where ever. Thanks again for all the support, and all I can say is just hang on. If one of the companies that is in discussions with them buys the thing and produces it themselves, I'll apologize to the entire archery world for stirring up a hornet's nest. Until then..............................


----------



## tmolina

*ttt*

I want one and I don't even have a bow to put it on right now!!!


----------



## Huaco

So... whats the news on Pre-orders?


----------



## Sticks N Strings

Pearsonguy305 said:


> see some kinda proof its is a real product, i mean lets move on, look im the most pateint guys there is, but all i asked for was somethign to prove it exsist, im not the bad guy, if i came on here saying i could do soemthign by god im gonna show you im gonna do it, I mean if ya gonna talk the talk, lets walk the walk, and get on with it.
> I was just told that they couldnt do no pics becasue they couldnt til paper work was filed, now they told us paperwork was filed, and i knwo if thats the case he can show pics.all this na na ni boo boo crap i seen it or i got one is for the chickens.



Ill tell you what bud......... Ill buy your gas in order for you to be able to drive up here and see it. We shoot spots tomorrow night at Steve's. Take off work, drive up here, hand me a receipt for your gas and ill hand you the cash.........

Then, go look at the product your self. Once that's done, and the holy COW look leaves your face, then come back to AT and post your new thoughts on this product..........


----------



## perchjerker

Alligood, I have been following this post for nothing more than curiosity.It seems much tado over very little disclosure. Why not stop the back and fourth until there is actual information or pictures to release.Since the original post it has been nothing but guessing or bickering. Do you really think this will help promote anything ? It really is just plain funny. Guys begging for information and guys insulting you because you won't give any. Not a good way to do any business. Good luck with the product , I shoot an LX (Mathews) and don't feel that need for overwhelming speed.Its all about shot placement. I do think a product like this would be a benefit to women and youth.


----------



## Elk4me

OK still waiting on a realese date or something. I would like to try the product, but if you cant produce it or relavint info STOP teasing us! You could send me one I live in very rural Montana and noone will see it!:thumb:


----------



## Yukonjack3d

Please don't close this thread. And, please post here any more information on the product when you can. I've subscribed so I may forget to look for this product in a couple of weeks if this thread is closed.


----------



## JUMPMAN

Yukonjack3d said:


> Please don't close this thread. And, please post here any more information on the product when you can. I've subscribed so I may forget to look for this product in a couple of weeks if this thread is closed.


We arent going to close this thread and no rules have been broken as this seems to be a pretty apealling product to all. Just sit back and enjoy the show, they all have a happy ending and the suspense leaves ya on the edge of your seat...

Jumpy
At Administrator


----------



## Huaco

JUMPMAN said:


> We arent going to close this thread and no rules have been broken as this seems to be a pretty apealling product to all. Just sit back and enjoy the show, they all have a happy ending and the suspense leaves ya on the edge of your seat...
> 
> Jumpy
> At Administrator


Lookin' forward to some kind of peek...

:couch2::happy1:


----------



## 4X4HD

Huaco said:


> Lookin' forward to some kind of peek...
> 
> :couch2::happy1:




x2


----------



## alligood729

JUMPMAN said:


> We arent going to close this thread and no rules have been broken as this seems to be a pretty apealling product to all. Just sit back and enjoy the show, they all have a happy ending and the suspense leaves ya on the edge of your seat...
> 
> Jumpy
> At Administrator


Thank you sir!!!


----------



## alligood729

*Another believer!! (from the gon.com site)*



> I saw it in action!
> I took a hour lesson from Steve today. While I was there he showed me his new product. We put it on my Conquest 3. My bow was shooting 278 FPS @ 59# with a 315 grain arrow after installation of "it" my bow went 302 FPS. Pretty amazing how it worked. I have to say I am a believer. Good luck goes out to Steve and Bernard. Best wishes, Paddy


__________________
Shoot true and well in life and archery.
Sincerely, Paddy


----------



## Chancy B

Sounds good. I'll take one.:darkbeer:


----------



## Huaco

alligood729 said:


> __________________
> Shoot true and well in life and archery.
> Sincerely, Paddy


After reading through the GON thread... and this one, I AM EXTREMELY INTERESTED! I am only about 2.5 hours drive away from you... Think I could make it over there and see this thing in action? Heck, I will even sign a non-disclosure form if they want me to.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*yeah and what he said*

ill bring my form with me , and a bow to put it on and my arrow, who needs a ride from middle ga area to hea dup saturday?


----------



## Huaco

Pearsonguy305 said:


> ill bring my form with me , and a bow to put it on and my arrow, who needs a ride from middle ga area to hea dup saturday?


Hey... you just couldn't stay outa here could you? It is awfully irresistible... the suspense and all.

Swing by the upstate SC and I will ride with you!!!! LOL


----------



## the hound dog

Huaco said:


> Hey... you just couldn't stay outa here could you? It is awfully irresistible... the suspense and all.
> 
> Swing by the upstate SC and I will ride with you!!!! LOL


He'll be the first to buy one if he could but knowing him on this thread well you know.


----------



## jersey bob

*What about warranties?*

I read that someone guessed it pre-stressed limbs. 

OK, what about the warranty on my $750 bow? 

If HOYT got excited, they probably see it as a way to sell their product differentiation---laminated limbs. Ditto for Martin's Pro Series, probably. 

Everyone else...eh....hell, I've seen Generals and Drenalins blow up without any help.


----------



## alligood729

the hound dog said:


> He'll be the first to buy one if he could but knowing him on this thread well you know.


Now, now houndoggy, lay off the man, he is just helping keep the thread going!!


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*alligood*

u r so right, im helping you and you didnt even know it. just so you know i am curious which is why i wanted proof, but i can wait like all else, but no i dont think ill be buying one, but its would be cool for those that like that kinda thing. I have met Steve at LOC shooting club before tho.So if Steve has anything to do with it then im sure it ll be fine. good job, but lets us see the product when ya can.


----------



## jersey bob

alligood729 said:


> __________________
> Shoot true and well in life and archery.
> Sincerely, Paddy


what about warranties? If Hoyt liked it, they may see it as a selling point matched with their laminated limbs. What about my Bowtech? 

I've seen solid limbed Generals and Drenalins blow up without any help. Prestressing the limb don't sound so good under those circumstances.


----------



## hayseedpaddy

*Also saw a hoyt with the device on it.*

I am the guy with the Conquest 3 that was mentioned previous post. After my bow Steve put the device on a Hoyt Vectrix ( I think). I don't know the specs. as far as draw weight and draw length on the bow but it went from 312 FPS to 340 FPS. I was amazed that it could make that much of a difference on a bow that was already pretty fast. Well we will have to wait just a little while to see the product for sale but I think it will be something good. Best wishes, Paddy


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*I was in Covington today doing some business*

I dropped by to say hello to Steve and Benard and to see if there was any progress. I saw the same Vectrix plus. I know it was 28" draw and was maxed out at about 71lbs. Do not know what the arrow weight but it was a light speed 400. The bow shot 315 spec, then the device was put on in about oh 30 seconds, including adjusting the ultra rest, then it shot (no crap) 346. Adjusted a little backed off to 336. It works people. Asked steve about giving out a little more including pictures and he said not yet. The guys are being close to the vest and I understand. Just thought I would give you what I got.


----------



## LarryStone

Alligood,
Ive read enough...put me on the list .thanks

I want one as soon as its available....

Did you say somewhere in this thread you have it on a XForce?

I have a dreamseason 28-70,

What was your increase in speed and energy?

Larry


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*the x-force that was tried out*

Got about 20 fps I think.


----------



## alligood729

bigrnyrs said:


> I dropped by to say hello to Steve and Benard and to see if there was any progress. I saw the same Vectrix plus. I know it was 28" draw and was maxed out at about 71lbs. Do not know what the arrow weight but it was a light speed 400. The bow shot 315 spec, then the device was put on in about oh 30 seconds, including adjusting the ultra rest, then it shot (no crap) 346. Adjusted a little backed off to 336. It works people. Asked steve about giving out a little more including pictures and he said not yet. The guys are being close to the vest and I understand. Just thought I would give you what I got.


Thank you my friend, you are a man of your word!!!:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## w8tnonu22

Does it increase the draw weight with extra tension and it would be interesting to see the speed difference in a slide vs. rollerguard.


----------



## champus

If it works, congrats !!!!!!

Hey Alligood, I've sent you 2 PM's.


----------



## musikman43155

I guess I'll never understand the fascination with "speed bows".


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*some of you are looking at it all wrong*

Yes, this will increase speed. But it not about speed. Its about adding options. Think about it. I do not care about speed mysself. I feel that every fps over 280 that a bow is shooting it becomes harder to get repeatable accuracy. But what this means is at my draw lenght of 28" I can get the 285 - 290fps I like to hunt at, but do it with a much heavier arrow. This increases my kenetic energy by leaps and bounds. That increases my likelyhood of a complet pass through. It means people with shorter draw lenghts can generate kenetic energy and speed that they have never been able to in the past. Wemon and kids who have to shoot lighter poundage can now have a set up that just might improve their chances of success.
And I can get the 280 for 3-D @ 50lbs instead of 60lbs.
It just not about speed, but it opens many more doors than just the chrono.


----------



## champus

Hi Alligood,

PM is sent again.


----------



## goblism

any idea on how long it will be until it is available to the public or any more information on it? A majority of great companies that care about their customers will at least give a release date or more than a concept when they reveal an item that is supposedly huge.


----------



## alligood729

goblism said:


> any idea on how long it will be until it is available to the public or any more information on it? A majority of great companies that care about their customers will at least give a release date or more than a concept when they reveal an item that is supposedly huge.


I appreciate your post. This is actually two guys working in their archery shop that came up with this thing. There is no company involved as of yet. This new ground for some, and it is posing some challenges for us. I think I posted this already, I can't remember, but we are building a website right now, and should have it up in a few days. Thanks again!!


----------



## alligood729

champus said:


> Hi Alligood,
> 
> PM is sent again.


Got it!!:thumbs_up


----------



## jws

Sounds interesting. I wonder if it will void the warranty on the bow?


----------



## johnnybravoo77

Sounds like a great product! Cant wait to see it!


----------



## Andreas

*Easton Bow Force Mapper*

A simple way to proof this product would be to post graphs from a Bow Force Mapper, before and after installation. I would very much assume these graphs are done (unless this new gadget isn't about increasing efficency) already if these guys works with this kind of developement.

I know it isn't claimed that it doesen't change the draw force curve of your bow but it's claimed not to change draw weight. So it's either a change of the force curve or efficieny. Is that possible to reveal?

Sorry for beeing so curious, I'm sort of a speed freak


----------



## Dugga Boy

Andreas said:


> A simple way to proof this product would be to post graphs from a Bow Force Mapper, before and after installation. I would very much assume these graphs are done (unless this new gadget isn't about increasing efficency) already if these guys works with this kind of developement.
> 
> I know it isn't claimed that it doesen't change the draw force curve of your bow but it's claimed not to change draw weight. So it's either a change of the force curve or efficieny. Is that possible to reveal?
> 
> Sorry for beeing so curious, I'm sort of a speed freak


I would guess watching the Let-Down-Curve would be even more conclusive.:darkbeer:

DB


----------



## trygg-t

*Pse x-force*

I was the first out of my archer-maniac friends to get a X-Force, after a trip tothe 3D-range, two of my buddies went along and ordered theirs as well....as one said earlier; we are the biggest kids....and this "tool" on my 70 pounds X-Force will probably turn some heads at the long distance shots..


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*one thing id like to do*

I was shown that it did not increase draw weight. In some cases it did increase holding weight/let off, but even then by only about 1.5lbs. Personally I would like to get this thing on a draw board with a digital scale, get some graph paper out and do some playing. Now the vectrix plus I shot didn't feel any different, but I know that is not exactly scientific. But if it doesn't increase draw wieght, and I couldn't feel the difference, then what I would find out on the draw board really would not matter, to me anyway.


----------



## rockster11

Sounds great but I will be willing to bet this "device" will void every bow manufacturers warranty...:thumbs_up


----------



## alligood729

rockster11 said:


> Sounds great but I will be willing to bet this "device" will void every bow manufacturers warranty...:thumbs_up


I don't think so. The guys at Outtech, the distributor for Hoyt, were very interested. I don't think they would show that kind of interest if it would void their own warranty.:shade:


----------



## Q2DEATH

If a company can purchase it, market it and make money off of it. It wont void the purchasing manufacturers warranty. If they can't buy it, then it'll void the warranty. Thing is, if theres a problem, just take it off before you sent the bow in.


----------



## Q2DEATH

Does it look like this?

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=787969


----------



## bigbuckdn

still offering to be a product tester :darkbeer:


----------



## RamRock

this is worse than waiting for a NEW bow to come out, as "this" can speed up ALL MY BOWS.....:teeth:


----------



## RamRock

david ,please keep us posted buddy!!:thumbs_up


----------



## rutnstrut

Sorry guy's I was pulling for you but it looks like your tease idea may have back fired. Hopefully the other thread with a pic is not the same type of product. But I really don't see how it could be much different. Hopefully there is room for both.


----------



## alligood729

RamRock said:


> david ,please keep us posted buddy!!:thumbs_up


Will do!! The other thread looks good, can't find it on a web search. Any help??


----------



## LeadSled1

alligood729 said:


> Will do!! The other thread looks good, can't find it on a web search. Any help??


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=787969


----------



## Barry O'Regan

I give up, is it a Grenade Launcher?, meant to distract the deer with the explosion, while you fire off an arrow into it?


----------



## Toby from MO

LeadSled1 said:


> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=787969


This could get good. :happy1:


----------



## nerdalert

will this go on my Mathews Legacy? If so I'll take a look.


----------



## BLB752

:happy1:


----------



## alwayslookin

*Ok*



Pearsonguy305 said:


> as many replies and comments and still no pic, and you cant even tell us how it works or what it attches too. ther eis no way this is a on the up thread, if it was and the patent was applied for they could show pics, again once i stated , once they file a provisional patent the idea cant be copied, if it is then they can go after that person or persons as they call them at the patent office as DRI , which is dirty , rotten, infringers. which is a lawsuit. so either show the dang pitcures or let it go, if you need all this to gain attention, thats pretty sad AT shoudl pull the thread.so dont come on here saying you cant post pitcures, as that is straight BS. so put up or shut up is what im saying.to many people play games.


Dude......do you have a clue how much it costs to defend a patent??????
I do......and it in itself has put more inventors and companies under than have succeeded.
Most small companies simply cannot defend a good idea monetarily.
I am quite sure that the folks making this are not filthy rich.
They most likely have Non Disclosures signed with a couple interested parties to boot.
No need for callin BS......just ignore the thread....it will be what it is.


----------



## reylamb

Just some facts.

No, I have not seen said product at this time. I have been too busy at work, hunting and building strings to make the trek over to the shop to see it. Even though it is only 40 miles or so from the house, in ATL traffic terms that is about a 2.5 hr round trip.

I have called the 2 reps in question. To say both were very impressed is an understatement. 

I have talked to a few other folks that have seen it, and it has sped up their bows quite a bit.

I also want to get my hands on one, put it on a bow mapper, and draw out the before and after draw force curves.

There is no need to ask, nor even hint at there being multiple user names from the same person. I personally know many of the users from GA (if not most of them) that have commented on this thread. They are not the same person. Yes indeed, AT can verify the IP addys if they so choose.

Ken, you were banned from woodys for failing to follow the rules. Your multiple attempts to go back under alternate user names is also against their rules, and those subsequent names were banned. I agree with you on the magazine, but I have an even more deeply rooted bitterness and anger over personal past history with the magazine that will remain that, past history. 

Who can blame these guys for being cautios on this entire thing? In reality they are learning lessons from another small manufacturer in Georgia, Last Chance Archery. LCA came out with a new design, outside the box, not done before in bowpresses. They have a provisional patent. Fast forward to today and how many manufacturers are now copying their idea? Heck, Apple now has their "new" "innovative" "revolutionary" bow press on the market, which works and functions exactly like the EZ Press from LCA. This is the very same company that at the ATA show many years ago was telling anyone and everyone that the LCA design would shatter limbs everywhere. Protecting patents is not easy, and having a provisional does not mean your product will not be ripped off by everyone. I can hardly blame them for waiting at this point.

Was this announcement a little premature? Maybe. I have heard from several sources how enthusiastic Alligood is over this product, and maybe, just maybe, in his zeal for helping out Steve and Bernard he might have jumped the ship a little bit. Give it time folks, the Steve and Bernard are not trying to start anything, they really are wanting to get this to market as soon as possible.


----------



## alligood729

reylamb said:


> Just some facts.
> 
> No, I have not seen said product at this time. I have been too busy at work, hunting and building strings to make the trek over to the shop to see it. Even though it is only 40 miles or so from the house, in ATL traffic terms that is about a 2.5 hr round trip.
> 
> I have called the 2 reps in question. To say both were very impressed is an understatement.
> 
> I have talked to a few other folks that have seen it, and it has sped up their bows quite a bit.
> 
> I also want to get my hands on one, put it on a bow mapper, and draw out the before and after draw force curves.
> 
> There is no need to ask, nor even hint at there being multiple user names from the same person. I personally know many of the users from GA (if not most of them) that have commented on this thread. They are not the same person. Yes indeed, AT can verify the IP addys if they so choose.
> 
> Ken, you were banned from woodys for failing to follow the rules. Your multiple attempts to go back under alternate user names is also against their rules, and those subsequent names were banned. I agree with you on the magazine, but I have an even more deeply rooted bitterness and anger over personal past history with the magazine that will remain that, past history.
> 
> Who can blame these guys for being cautios on this entire thing? In reality they are learning lessons from another small manufacturer in Georgia, Last Chance Archery. LCA came out with a new design, outside the box, not done before in bowpresses. They have a provisional patent. Fast forward to today and how many manufacturers are now copying their idea? Heck, Apple now has their "new" "innovative" "revolutionary" bow press on the market, which works and functions exactly like the EZ Press from LCA. This is the very same company that at the ATA show many years ago was telling anyone and everyone that the LCA design would shatter limbs everywhere. Protecting patents is not easy, and having a provisional does not mean your product will not be ripped off by everyone. I can hardly blame them for waiting at this point.
> 
> Was this announcement a little premature? Maybe. I have heard from several sources how enthusiastic Alligood is over this product, and maybe, just maybe, in his zeal for helping out Steve and Bernard he might have jumped the ship a little bit. Give it time folks, the Steve and Bernard are not trying to start anything, they really are wanting to get this to market as soon as possible.


Thanks Jeff. Your post means a lot to me personally, and I'm sure Steve and Bernard will appreciate it just as much. I am excited about it, it gives me some added pop on my bow that a short draw can't always achieve. And I get the option of lower poundage and still get the speed I want for ASA. I respect your knowledge of the bow, and the industry, and I want you to have one of these in your hands to test it too. Too early, maybe so, but I did get the OK from Steve before I posted.
It will be interesting now that the other thread has popped up. Strange tho, that we haven't heard of it before now.........................


----------



## hayseedpaddy

*Can I get an AMEN!*

AMEN! Well said reylamb.


----------



## RecordKeeper

You already claim that it is patent pending...so, in reality, there is nothing to be lost with respect to intellectual property rights by disclosing the product. Unless, of course, the tactics employed in this thread are a marketing scheme......in which case...tease on...it's easy to lead the speed chasers by a nose ring.:shade:


----------



## Huaco

Hey... I want a black one... I don't need to wait for Cammo licensing. I'll just go ahead and take a painted one!!!! :teeth: :grin: :wink: JUST GOTTA GET IT!!!


----------



## CarpCommander

*Sooooo.....*

SOOOOOO...........is it this? Or NOT?

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=787969

Ya never did answer?


----------



## alligood729

LookMa-NoHands! said:


> SOOOOOO...........is it this? Or NOT?
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=787969
> 
> Ya never did answer?


No, that's not it!!


----------



## ABTABB

Please tell Me after reading almost 250 posts it's not just a bolt on Roller Guard. If not, 

I'm picturing something that would attach to the front of the cable rod to pull and/or accelerate a normal cable slide maybe?

Good luck with it either way:thumbs_up

I bought several Polaris 4 wheelers from Piedmont Outdoors in Covington a few years ago, Sounds like the same place


----------



## MAG00

Keep me posted. I have a short draw at 26" and pull only 60 lbs so I would be very interested.


----------



## bosvaark

*please call*



Pearsonguy305 said:


> if i cant go beofre saturday ill call and see where steve will be


Why call Steve just call the store and ask for me Bernard , me and Steve came up together, and I built it in less than 24 hrs ,so please call and i will show you where the short bus stop,s so you can go for a long ride, We have used it on more than 23 bows ,the rest is history ,it realy work,s I have been desighning for more the 28 year,s in my line of buss so please have some respect for that people say and do 
Thanks Bernard 
ps~770-784-1111 ex 2


----------



## Bob_Looney

Patent Pending doesn't mean it's innovative. 

You're not going to get 10 fps for nothing.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*i think ....................*

alligood is trying to get his post numbers up.LOL i have watched this for a bit now and still nothing in proof, oh well i guess they have nothign else better to do.


----------



## dartman

ABTABB said:


> Please tell Me after reading almost 250 posts it's not just a bolt on Roller Guard. If not,
> 
> I'm picturing something that would attach to the front of the cable rod to pull and/or accelerate a normal cable slide maybe?


I can see some possible merit in such a gizmo...if it allows the cable slide most of its previous travel it should have less effect on the tune of the bow than a fixed rollerguard while offsetting the inefficiency inherent in requiring the cables to provide the force needed to accelerate the cable slide forwards.


----------



## 442fps

Will this ---thing---, whatever it is , change draw lenght and draw weight ?


----------



## trygg-t

*Draw length - weight*

.....from another post; it's not supposed to....I have a 29 inch draw, and 70 pounds X-Force, and I am VERY interested!!!


----------



## zabby

*he is at it again*

Pearsonguy305 
Registered User

you all know him from his posts when he shot for high country, now he shoots for pearson archery, why do you want the patent application numbers? i know why, and who you will be giving them to, and by the way mr patent attorney, you cant view a provisioal patent by number it is locked except for the filer, with your knowledge of the patent laws you should know that, you must have a agenda again, with all the compaines you have trash talked im really suprised you still have a sponsor, ken why dont you just leave this thread alone as you have been asked and as you have been asked on every thread you reply on,


----------



## Yukonjack3d

Now it makes sense why the other thread was started


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*who has nothing better to do?*



Pearsonguy305 said:


> alligood is trying to get his post numbers up.LOL i have watched this for a bit now and still nothing in proof, oh well i guess they have nothign else better to do.


It appears that you are the one with nothing better to do. You are contrary, negative, arguementive, and a high jacker. If you do not think that we are telling the truth, or what ever it is you think, Ýou can just go away. I know these guys personally, both the guys who developed this thing and the guys who have seen it and posted here about it. Ýou can say what yÓu want about me and my post, but alligood, hound dog, ect from here in Georgia are all stand up guys and you are out of line. I do not know what you THINK you know, but you are p****** in the wind and it seems that a lot of people follwing this thread wiÞh sincere intrest have all grown tired of you. But, my response might be what you are after, I'm not sure really what your point is. But you will see at the proper time.


----------



## the hound dog

I wish they hurry up I want my gizmo for my bow. :blob1:

Sounds like some one is getting on some peoples nerves wont say any names you know who your are and so does everyone else.:moon::bartstush::elf_moon::icon_1_lol:


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*jus keeping the dream alive!*

I can wait because neither one of my bows are in yet! But I can not wait, my Vantage Pro should be a tack driver!


----------



## hilbilyhunter

*get me some info !!!!!!!*

If this is what it is said to be get me info pics and a proto 
I can become a dealer if it does what you say it does 
OR is this post just a ego stroker ??????????


----------



## hawgdawg

Lived without it for all these years. When it and if it comes out on market I'll take a look at it and probably try it. After all we try all the other stuff. Just look at the reviews as I'm sure it'll be put to the test and base your decision on that. The manufacture reviews are just that. Any manufacturer wouldn't give itself a negative. So I can wait for the independent review to base necessity of this item. Good luck to you guys with this item.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*thats easy*

its the latter of the two, as i said before if papers have been filed you can show design once you file that provisional its aptent pending, the you have up to one years to file a utilty patent.i mean show us soem proof its exsist or just let it go.plus if i was anyone who was gonna use such a thing on my bow, id call the company and check warranty, i doubt very seriouly this will be within your warranty. I was ok with this til the short bus comment, which was very un called for, if ya wanna do that trash talk me in a pm. be a better person ok, and stop misleading folks, not cool at all.


----------



## bowtech dually

Pearsonguy305 said:


> its the latter of the two, as i said before if papers have been filed you can show design once you file that provisional its aptent pending, the you have up to one years to file a utilty patent.i mean show us soem proof its exsist or just let it go.plus if i was anyone who was gonna use such a thing on my bow, id call the company and check warranty, i doubt very seriouly this will be within your warranty. I was ok with this til the short bus comment, which was very un called for, if ya wanna do that trash talk me in a pm. be a better person ok, and stop misleading folks, not cool at all.


Dude cool your jets!!! They will release the idea when they are ready.. Are you the same guy as fastpassthrough trolling for an idea.. Late join date for someone who is involved heavily in archery.

BD


----------



## icefishur96

Well it's been 10 days......i gotta c it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## reylamb

And again, for proof on how well provisional patents protect the owners, look no further than the "new innovative" bowpress from Apple.........look familiar to anyone? It should, it has striking resemblance to a bowpress from a small manufacturer in Georgia, just how far did that provisional patent get the LCA guys? 

Who can blame another small manufacturer for being a little over careful on their idea?????


----------



## reylamb

bowtech dually said:


> Dude cool your jets!!! They will release the idea when they are ready.. Are you the same guy as fastpassthrough trolling for an idea.. Late join date for someone who is involved heavily in archery.
> 
> BD


Nope he is not fastpassthrough. His previous incarnations were ar34shooter, ken davis, or iron mace07.........


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*oh and since*

rel has turned this personal now, that he has to bring all that in the thread, he wont even answer a pm, figures tho most people who act as such are as such.........................


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*and oh yeah*

protective , giv eme a break, i f they were worried on it getitgn copied then why brign it on a open forum and talk about it, and be showing it a a shop and then have somone walkign aroudn with a prototype.oh yeah they are worried alright. man some people just dont get it.the previous post by rel shows his colors, all i have asked for is proof ogf what they say is so, i never have gotten personal. so rely , if it makes ya feel liek a big man go ahead, have ur fun, its shows who you are, what curcuit do you shoot in? and what class? you wanna make it personal, let dont dig in the past lets go on 2009 shooting ok, lets see what ya got with your little hoyt bow. it would take mroe than this gadget to get that thing to shoot any real speeds, IMO.


----------



## bowtech dually

Pearsonguy305 said:


> protective , giv eme a break, i f they were worried on it getitgn copied then why brign it on a open forum and talk about it, and be showing it a a shop and then have somone walkign aroudn with a prototype.oh yeah they are worried alright. man some people just dont get it.the previous post by rel shows his colors, all i have asked for is proof ogf what they say is so, i never have gotten personal. so rely , if it makes ya feel liek a big man go ahead, have ur fun, its shows who you are, what curcuit do you shoot in? and what class? you wanna make it personal, let dont dig in the past lets go on 2009 shooting ok, lets see what ya got with your little hoyt bow. it would take mroe than this gadget to get that thing to shoot any real speeds, IMO.


Looks like another alias isn't that far away !!

BD


----------



## reylamb

Pearsonguy305 said:


> protective , giv eme a break, i f they were worried on it getitgn copied then why brign it on a open forum and talk about it, and be showing it a a shop and then have somone walkign aroudn with a prototype.oh yeah they are worried alright. man some people just dont get it.the previous post by rel shows his colors, all i have asked for is proof ogf what they say is so, i never have gotten personal. so rely , if it makes ya feel liek a big man go ahead, have ur fun, its shows who you are, what curcuit do you shoot in? and what class? you wanna make it personal, let dont dig in the past lets go on 2009 shooting ok, lets see what ya got with your little hoyt bow. it would take mroe than this gadget to get that thing to shoot any real speeds, IMO.


Look a little closer at the details here. Someone has a prototype. Someone was very excited about said prototype. This individual is not the owner of the product, or one of the inventors. Did he jump the gun a little on this announcement? Probably. When I called my rep he said the only way I would see it, outside of seeing it from the actual owners, was to sign a non-disclosure agreement. So yes, the owners are being protective, and who can blame them? Allowing folks to see it in the controlled environment of their shop is one thing, showing it on the internet before all the ducks are in a row is quite another.

There is plenty of proof of the existence of what is being talked about here. No one here has permission from the owners to show it as of today.

Look a little closer again. Someone accuses you of being an alter/sock puppet for Richard. I actually defended you and your history here. And I get ripped by you for that? Like I said, I was defending your history on here.

I did not answer a PM? What question was in it? 

Whoopie, you can beat me at a 3D shoot. No real feat there, my name is usually near the bottom, if not at the bottom. Big deal. Everyone beats me on a regular basis, and I could care less.


----------



## reylamb

bowtech dually said:


> Looks like another alias isn't that far away !!
> 
> BD


Well, I know I will regret this because I know I will get another PM about this and being personal and all, but in his defense....he created new user accounts here when he switched bow companies were sponsoring him. Having the name ar34shooter as a handle when you are on another companies staff is kinda illogical.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*boy , wasnt we*

talking about a patent, and yall have let this get on a personal level against me, yall are stealing alligoods thunder. i like the attention,, but honestly i dont need it.but duelly, no i think i might just have this name for quiet awhile, finally a bow that has it all, I would talk about it but that would be hijacking a thread , wont do that to alligood, id much rather see the patent paperwork. LOL since thats what the thread is about


----------



## RobVos

So far this thread is totally useless and a waste of everyones time!


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*I agree*

matter of fact its rather boreing me now. seems it will all come out in the wash, or maybe not, i got way better things to do then worry on this thread, moving on again


----------



## SMichaels

RobVos said:


> So far this thread is totally useless and a waste of everyones time!


7 pages and approaching 13,000 views. Sounds like pretty good marketing to me and far from useless for the manufacturer.


----------



## alligood729

SMichaels said:


> 7 pages and approaching 13,000 views. Sounds like pretty good marketing to me and far from useless for the manufacturer.


Thank you my friend! I appreciate the support that everyone has offered. My excitement may have overridden my judgement at first, but the originators gave me permission to talk about it. I'm sorry that some here feel they have wasted their time reading this thread, but there is a "back" button at the top left of the page. I apologize to the supporters of this thread for no pictures, but that again is at the request of the makers. Reylamb has made my point much better than I could with the bow press example. Thanks Jeff!:thumbs_up For those that insist that I'm full of hot air, I could really care less. There is more than enough hard evidence from the ones that have seen it work. 

There is a website that should be up and running sometime this week, specifically for this product. As soon as it is online, I'm closing this thread. It seems that some would rather take it off course. That's ok, it served the purpose!!! Personal attacks don't bother me at all, on one post it was stated that I was "full of the brown stuff that comes out the backend of an elk". Big deal. I've made it thru 47 years without worrying about what people thought of me. The ones that truly know me, those are the ones I care about what they think.

So, with that being said, I'm not posting anything else until the website is ready. I accomplished what I set out to do, and that was to generate some interest in what could be a very good product for some. There will be a lot that like it, some that don't. Big deal again. That's what it's all about, personal choice!!! Thanks to the mods for letting it run it's course, and their support as well! I'll be very interested to see how many hits we get when the actual hard item hits the shelf.............................:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## the hound dog

I hope to place my order soon. I just want one may be two. Hurry up this sucks. Alligood let me use yours for now.


----------



## jd commander

*pearsonguy or MR NEGATIVE*

This guy is like lots of society negative and does not like to see any one else get ahead in life except themselves. I don't know why you are giving alli a hard time. May be you should complain about every other company that markets this way. This is how a company markets products. For example look at the mathews XLR8 (which is the dumbest bow ever). Why don't you call them and tell them they do not know how to market. Don't worry Alli obviously every one on this sight is not educated. For Pearsonguy not caring about this product he sure is on the post a lot. ukey:


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*Lol*

too funny, you call it marketing? wow your a funny man, educated? oh man you are funny man.Lmao. this has gotten to be fun now, Im just getting started, I got nothing against Alligood, he is only there messenger boy, or whatever they call him. these forums are for information and chattign with others about our sport, Im just funnin with them, hey if it does exsist i wish them luck. they will need it in the archery world, its a cut throat business, very hard to invent anything , that hasnt already been tried by somone. but good luck. its a good way to get alot folks thinking tho, i will say he got some peoples minds wondering, very good job at that.moving on good luck Alligood or whomever is trying to break into the world of inventers.


----------



## PJBinMI

:thumbs_doI can't believe I read that thread! Complete BS and at the end nothing meaningful. It should be printed burned and removed.

Patrick


----------



## Robert Sowell

alligood729 said:


> For those that insist that I'm full of hot air, I could really care less.


I know you are usually full of hot air Dave.......

All I have to say is that if these guys are behind it, I am too. Keep fighting the good good fight Dave. Good luck to you all.


----------



## ciscokid

It looks like something that already comes with a Bowtech or Mathews... 

I don't see the difference.


----------



## BlackArcher

*I have seen it... It is real*

I was there the day Idea was developed... I saw it on paper...It is for real... The rough Sketch I held it and was skepitical.... 24 hours later on a Wednesday ProtoType.. 

It does what it says...
Aligood... Hang in there... All the Naysayer will be silenced soon. 
Gents / Gals Get your paypal accounts ready.... 
Hold a little back after Xmas... 
Get your Visa accound in order...
You will want want of these..

Before you ask.... No I am not a owner.... I shoot for the store where the concept was developed...

It is the real deal... Just adding my two cents...

I will repeat what I told steve "This little gizmo will revoloutionize archery as we know it"

I saw a hoyt shooting 312 speeded up to 340 with this gizmo..."Wow" you say.... 

PATIENCE... Fellas Patience

PS Reylamb..... I need your svcs... Hit a brotha up will Ya...


----------



## dartman

ciscokid said:


> It looks like something that already comes with a Bowtech or Mathews...
> 
> I don't see the difference.


Oh? Where did you see it? According to some, it's NOT the same gizmo as posted in the other thread....


----------



## Huaco

dartman said:


> Oh? Where did you see it? According to some, it's NOT the same gizmo as posted in the other thread....


Synical dartman??? 

Lets all just be a little patient...


----------



## bigbuckdn

:teeth::smile::tongue::shade::angry:


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*well cool*

im glad its comign to a head finally, but its not gonna be for all of us, tired of all the bolt on stuff, us 3 d shooters like to keep our bows lite. so how much doe sit weigh ?


----------



## Toby from MO

BlackArcher said:


> Hold a little back after Xmas...


Are you telling us something here...after Christmas...really???


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*just a thought*

I want to be perfectly clear here. Although I know Steve and Bernard, the owners of the "_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _" wink wink, (I know the name, na na na na naaa) and have spoken to them several times regarding it. This is pure speculation on my part and this has not benn something they have said but.......
With the ATA show just around the corner, I wonder if they are holding on in order to do their officail release there in order to make a big splash. That way, following the official release, there will be orders coming to an archery shop near you. Just thinking and thought I would share my thought. What do you think, this makes since, right?


----------



## musikman43155

Will it fit on my Oneida Aeroforce?


----------



## dartman

Huaco said:


> Synical dartman???
> 
> Lets all just be a little patient...


Cynical? Not at all...i just don't see why some are assuming THIS thread pertains to a roller guard...i haven't seen the gizmo in question so i simply don't know. Whatever it is, if it works as advertised, I'll be interested...


----------



## MysticFlight

Will it work on my BowTech General?


----------



## Huaco

dartman said:


> Cynical? Not at all...i just don't see why some are assuming THIS thread pertains to a roller guard...i haven't seen the gizmo in question so i simply don't know. Whatever it is, if it works as advertised, I'll be interested...


Ahh... makes sense...


----------



## 500 fps

mgbarr71 said:


> Will it work on my BowTech General?


They are working on one that can be used with a roller guard, but initially it will only work with rod and slide bows.


----------



## BlackArcher

*Release Date Tease*

Days and Counting.... And I mean Days and counting....
Aligood Where is that Logo...........................................>>


----------



## Huaco

BlackArcher said:


> Days and Counting.... And I mean Days and counting....
> Aligood Where is that Logo...........................................>>


Where is the Website... for the love of God man... people are waiting! :wink:


----------



## alligood729

Huaco said:


> Where is the Website... for the love of God man... people are waiting! :wink:


Ok guys, I was at the shop for several hours today, trying to get as much as I could for you. I am posting a pic of the logo, and the website link is on the picture. The website WILL NOT be online til Tuesday, possibly Monday, but with the holiday I can't be sure, so wait til then to search for it. From what I was told, there will be a short video clip of the Turbow being installed, and realtime footage of a bow being shot before and after installation. We are working frantically with a manufacturing company,( who shall remain nameless for now, but does excellent work!!) getting final costs, colors, and such details worked out. The website will also have a shopping cart for pre-orders. I'm sure credit cards will be accepted, and if necessary, I have made my paypal account available to the shop, for convenience sake. You guys have been VERY patient, and the pms I have received I can't say enough in appreciation for your support. Just hang in there a few more days................:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## timpat92855

LOL you guys get a A+ for suspense. I will be checking back in.


----------



## Justin17

"Super Fast Speed"

Did you get that from the department of redundancy department? I've always wanted more speed, but make it super fast and I have to have it.


----------



## Huaco

alligood729 said:


> Ok guys, I was at the shop for several hours today, trying to get as much as I could for you. I am posting a pic of the logo, and the website link is on the picture. The website WILL NOT be online til Tuesday, possibly Monday, but with the holiday I can't be sure, so wait til then to search for it. From what I was told, there will be a short video clip of the Turbow being installed, and realtime footage of a bow being shot before and after installation. We are working frantically with a manufacturing company,( who shall remain nameless for now, but does excellent work!!) getting final costs, colors, and such details worked out. The website will also have a shopping cart for pre-orders. I'm sure credit cards will be accepted, and if necessary, I have made my paypal account available to the shop, for convenience sake. You guys have been VERY patient, and the pms I have received I can't say enough in appreciation for your support. Just hang in there a few more days................:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


Your such a tease!!! Believe me... I will be checkin' this site out when it DOES come up!


----------



## BlackArcher

*But Hold Up... There is Video....*

There is more.... Aligood we finished the video around 7:30 pm tonight 11/26/08. 

Demonstration Video is complete..... A star is born.... Step aside brad Pit....

We now have *Steve Pit......*

Stay tuned.... You may not have to wait till Xmas afterall...
Be the first at your shop to own one​
*ps. I just shot a 300 with this post... with 1 "x", 
an "X" wife....Lol​*


----------



## hartofthethumb

Justin17 said:


> "Super Fast Speed"
> 
> Did you get that from the department of redundancy department?


:set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2: Oh, thats classic....... :darkbeer:



Can't wait to see what this thing is.


----------



## Drop-Shot

I have tried Google and Yahoo and can't get the website yet.Today is tuesday the 26th,mabe next tuesday?
I've waited since the thread was posted and can wait another week,not a problem.


----------



## alligood729

Drop-Shot said:


> I have tried Google and Yahoo and can't get the website yet.Today is tuesday the 26th,mabe next tuesday?
> I've waited since the thread was posted and can wait another week,not a problem.


Yes, sorry, I should have made that a little clearer. Next Tuesday is the date. My bad!!!:smile::smile:


----------



## timpat92855

Sorry if this has been asked but I dont feel like reading threw 8 pages to see if its here. The device does not change draw length or draw weight does it?


----------



## Huaco

timpat92855 said:


> Sorry if this has been asked but I dont feel like reading threw 8 pages to see if its here. The device does not change draw length or draw weight does it?


(I am in no way affiliated with the originators of this product)

It is not supposed to. It only increases the efficiency of the bow. Basically, as I understand it... you can shoot the same exact setup, except with a heavier arrow, and it will all be the same. Or if you choose... you can keep your current setup and gain 15-30 fps...


----------



## Jerry/NJ

Huaco said:


> (I am in no way affiliated with the originators of this product)
> 
> It is not supposed to. It only increases the efficiency of the bow. Basically, as I understand it... you can shoot the same exact setup, except with a heavier arrow, and it will all be the same. Or if you choose... you can keep your current setup and gain 15-30 fps...


Very interesting !


----------



## timpat92855

I got a pm earlier from alligood and said it might increase lbs if the bow is maxed but not by much, maybe 1-2 lbs. It all depends on the bow. Im shooting a 403gr arrow at 268fps, I would love to get it to about 290fps. Talk about some KE then.


----------



## Huaco

timpat92855 said:


> I got a pm earlier from alligood and said it might increase lbs if the bow is maxed but not by much, maybe 1-2 lbs. It all depends on the bow. Im shooting a 403gr arrow at 268fps, I would love to get it to about 290fps. Talk about some KE then.


Could you imagine... 400 gr arrow at 290-300 fps. What exactly would KE be on that? Anybody want to calculate it?


----------



## SMichaels

Huaco said:


> Could you imagine... 400 gr arrow at 290-300 fps. What exactly would KE be on that? Anybody want to calculate it?


79.96KE at 400 gr and 300 FPS.


----------



## bigmo101

*Guarantee???????*

Is there going to be some sort of guarantee that we'll be getting at least 10 fps?

Just wondering.


----------



## timpat92855

Im only at low 60s on KE right now. I plan on going bear hunting next year with my stepdad, thats why I want my KE on up there a bit. 

Big Im not sure on that. He said every bow that it was tested on showed a increase. A x-force gained 56fps. I would think alligood will shine some light on this when he gets back on.


----------



## EricO

timpat92855 said:


> Im only at low 60s on KE right now. I plan on going bear hunting next year with my stepdad, thats why I want my KE on up there a bit.
> 
> Big Im not sure on that. He said every bow that it was tested on showed a increase. A x-force gained 56fps. I would think alligood will shine some light on this when he gets back on.


Wow. I think he ought to be able to see why folks are skeptical. If this thing really does this then it just set the archery world on its ear.


----------



## alligood729

EricO said:


> Wow. I think he ought to be able to see why folks are skeptical. If this thing really does this then it just set the archery world on its ear.





timpat92855 said:


> Im only at low 60s on KE right now. I plan on going bear hunting next year with my stepdad, thats why I want my KE on up there a bit.
> 
> Big Im not sure on that. He said every bow that it was tested on showed a increase. A x-force gained 56fps. I would think alligood will shine some light on this when he gets back on.


Timpat, I sent you a private message with an extreme example of what we found on one bow, not the entire testing results. I kind of expected you to treat that as just what it was, a private message. No where did I post anything or make claims about an X Force getting 56fps more!! Let's don't get carried away for crying out loud. I have explained this in more than one post, let's try again. What this thing does is get you an increase of 10-30fps, just like I said in the first post. These are average speed increases over several weeks of testing it on many brands of bows. It has already been stated in several posts as well, at maximum adjustment you will pick up a couple of pounds of draw weight on the back side. I never said you wouldn't. The one thing I noticed on another thread was that this idea had been tried before, and to get any noticeable increase the lbs increased by 10lbs, and the draw length by 4"!!! Our product does not do that!! Please pm me with any questions about your bow in particular and I'll try to help get you some figures.


----------



## GIG

*Limbsaver bows spec*

The limbsaver speed bow shoots 348 to 350 ibo 30'' draw now thats at 70 lbs if we go to 74lbs we get 354 to 355 ibo so it seems that a little draw wt. can add speed. but that said his sounds cool if we Can get more by adding this product on any bow. keep up the good work. And don't let anyone see it tell you have it lock up good and tight . GARY SIMS LIMBSAVER.


----------



## Dave Nowlin

I asked a question of Bernard and he answered it truthfully. How many extra feet per second you get depends on the preload you set up. This doesn't mean you can get 50 f.p. s. extra just by increasing the preload. There will be limits that can't be exceeded with each bow. How much extra speed you get depends on your bow and how you set it up. If you add preload the poundage will increase by a small amount. I suspect that most of you can tolerate an extra 2# of holding force on an 80% letoff bow.

I will visit their booth at the ATA show. If I like it one or two will come home with me.

Dave Nowlin


----------



## alligood729

Dave Nowlin said:


> I asked a question of Bernard and he answered it truthfully. How many extra feet per second you get depends on the preload you set up. This doesn't mean you can get 50 f.p. s. extra just by increasing the preload. There will be limits that can't be exceeded with each bow. How much extra speed you get depends on your bow and how you set it up. If you add preload the poundage will increase by a small amount. I suspect that most of you can tolerate an extra 2# of holding force on an 80% letoff bow.
> 
> I will visit their booth at the ATA show. If I like it one or two will come home with me.
> 
> Dave Nowlin


Thank you Dave!!! Oh, and you will like it, I promise!!!:smile::smile:


----------



## RamRock

bump it up.......:darkbeer::thumbs_up


----------



## bobinhood

*mo speed*

bump for info on pro elite.


----------



## The Arrow Guru

Byaaaa! The Bow Turbow! Couldn't hardly wait for everyone to see it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bosvaark

*From the BowTurbow people thanks*



bigrnyrs said:


> Byaaaa! The Bow Turbow! Couldn't hardly wait for everyone to see it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi this is Bernard from the home of the Bowturbow,I,d like you to know that the Bowturbow will be ready to pre -order the 1st Dec 2008 and it will be on the web site at Bowturbow.com To see the test,s we have done the last few day,s our self,s, We have also asked one of America,s top world champion,s to take part in the test,s so that we can stand by what we have been tarking about for the last 2 week,s we are realy looking foward to getting the Bowturbow out there to you all ,so I ask you to please just hang in there , it will be SUPER FAST SPEED for everybody in just a few week,s,I am sure you will like the Vido on the Web 
Thank,s Again 
Bernard


----------



## mobowhntr

:thumbs_up Cant wait to take a look at it.


----------



## REFLEXDEFLEX

That's less than a week left. 
You sure you can't spare a few days and let us know early? :wink:


----------



## wis_archer

bigmo101 said:


> is there going to be some sort of guarantee that we'll be getting at least 10 fps?
> 
> Just wondering.


bump


----------



## Hemingway

First of all, let me preface this by saying that I am in no way qualified to discuss mechanical engineering or archery physics with anyone, so if this sounds ridiculous, I apologize. However, one undeniable fact that I know in regards to archery... you don't get more energy out of a bow than you put in. Here's where I hit a roadblock when thinking about this product. How could you get 10-30 fps out of it if your not putting that much extra energy into the draw cycle? If (as it's claimed) this device doesn't effect the draw weight, holding weight, or draw length of the bow (at least not enough to be the cause of the speed increase) the only other way to gain this increased speed would be to increase efficiency, right?

Then it occurred to me that what if it is preloaded somehow? Remember those Crossman pellet guns that you had to pump 8-10 times to build enough power to shoot it? Why couldn't that theory apply to a bow? Or, maybe a ratchet effect of sorts, similar to those ratcheting cutters... Something that you "preload" before the draw to add a little extra energy to the cycle.

Anyway, it's late and I'm just thinkin' out loud, but I am anxious to see what the Bow Turbow is all about :thumb:


----------



## jackhorner

*Sounds good*

Sounds great, but doe's it affect the way your bow shoots or how it sounds. And for the big question will it be available to me, since I live in OZ?:mg:


----------



## jersey bob

*Re: Hemingway's comment on efficiency.*

What Hemingway said makes perfect sense. Which means that there is, as I thought earlier, some pre-loading or over stressing of the limbs to boost efficiency.

Thus, back to my original questions and observations:

"The HOYT Rep" had a jones for this thing. Hoyt's top end bows have laminated limbs. (So do the better Martins.) I bet they see it as a selling point.

For other bows with billet limbs, will this void the warranty? I've seen a General go BOOM and when I was in Wyoming I took an antelope to a butcher with a big bandage on is nose. His new Drenalin had gone BOOM in his face the week before elk season. Do you really want to over stress those kinds of limbs?:mg:


----------



## alligood729

jersey bob said:


> What Hemingway said makes perfect sense. Which means that there is, as I thought earlier, some pre-loading or over stressing of the limbs to boost efficiency.
> 
> Thus, back to my original questions and observations:
> 
> "The HOYT Rep" had a jones for this thing. Hoyt's top end bows have laminated limbs. (So do the better Martins.) I bet they see it as a selling point.
> 
> For other bows with billet limbs, will this void the warranty? I've seen a General go BOOM and when I was in Wyoming I took an antelope to a butcher with a big bandage on is nose. His new Drenalin had gone BOOM in his face the week before elk season. Do you really want to over stress those kinds of limbs?:mg:


Your point is a good one, and has been discussed with at least one rep that I was there for, and at least one more that I wasn't there for. There is no "over stressing" of the limbs. Sure, the words "pre-load" bring a couple of things to mind. How many bows have you ever heard of that "max out" 4-5lbs heavier than their spec weight? I've personally had bows that were 60lb bows that with the limb bolts cranked all the way in, would pull 64-65lbs. Is that over stressing the limbs? My bow is a prime example. I got 15fps more, no draw length change, and my 60lb X Force is now pulling 61.5-62lbs. Over stressed?? I don't think so. One of the biggest advantages of this thing is being overlooked. If I wanted, I could turn my 60lb bow down to 50-52lbs or so, and still get the same speed I'm getting now at 60. The most extreme example I've seen yet was a new 09 bow, with the max preload we could get, it went from a 60lb bow to a 66lb bow. I'm not even going to print what the speed increase on that bow was, no one would believe me! The rep was standing right there. I made it a point to ask if that was too much load on the limbs. He said it was not. I've been asked countless times if it will void the warranty on a bow. We have no concrete statement from any maker on that. But casual conversations with some of the reps, and our tests have shown that any stress added is no more than would be expected of any quality bow. Factory tests are much more stringent than what this adds. It will depend on the bow, the setup, and the individual shooter's likes and dislikes.The adjustability is what makes the Turbow so unique!!


----------



## ultramax

ultramax said:


> You have my interest.


In order to save myself a whole lot of reading let me ask. When will these be available? Thanx


----------



## jersey bob

*Thanks Alligood*

thanks; this was a thouight I'd had and it seems addressed. Looking forward to more details. Good luck with it.


----------



## wis_archer

bigmo101 said:


> Is there going to be some sort of guarantee that we'll be getting at least 10 fps?
> 
> Just wondering.


Bump again


----------



## alligood729

bigmo101 said:


> Is there going to be some sort of guarantee that we'll be getting at least 10 fps?
> 
> Just wondering.





jackhorner said:


> Sounds great, but doe's it affect the way your bow shoots or how it sounds. And for the big question will it be available to me, since I live in OZ?:mg:





ultramax said:


> In order to save myself a whole lot of reading let me ask. When will these be available? Thanx


I'll try to get all these at once! Every bow will be different, according to the individual shooter's setup. I don't know if there is a "money back guarantee" on the 10fps spec, but I can tell you this. Every single bow we have tested, from 8yr old bows to some 09 models, have gotten at least 10 more fps. That with little or NO pre load.

There is no effect on the way a bow shoots, or sounds. My X Force had very little vibration at the shot to begin with, after this was installed, it decreased even more.

As far as availability, the website is set to be up early next week. Pre orders will be accepted as soon as the site is up and running. 

Any questions, please don't hesitate to ask!!!!


----------



## dartman

Maybe I missed this- how much does this gizmo weigh?


----------



## Oregonbwhunter

dartman said:


> Maybe I missed this- how much does this gizmo weigh?


Also what is the cost going to be on these?

Thansk,
OBH


----------



## djsasa

The first overseas order - free s/h :angel:


----------



## trygg-t

*Orders.*

...and there will be one from norway as well!!!:teeth:
X-Force @70


----------



## trygg-t

*Vikings*



trygg-t said:


> ...and there will be one from norway as well!!!:teeth:
> X-Force @70


Forgot to say that vikings are used to "power" bows!! Read the history and you will discover some "inventions" that will be close t 1000yrs....iron limbs??? Yeah...they did some science on those...


----------



## Migrabill

If you can't talk more about it, you shouldn't have started talking yet! Lame.


----------



## johnno

Funny..with 350 posts..It seems that "plenty" has been said already...


----------



## alligood729

dartman said:


> Maybe I missed this- how much does this gizmo weigh?





Oregonbwhunter said:


> Also what is the cost going to be on these?
> 
> Thansk,
> OBH





Migrabill said:


> If you can't talk more about it, you shouldn't have started talking yet! Lame.


First, it weighs only ounces, cost I believe is $59 for black or anodized colors, and $69 for camo. 

Migrabill, with only 9 posts in 10 months, your comment seems a little lame to me!!!:lol3::icon_1_lol::icon_1_lol::violin::violin::violin:


----------



## tmolina

*ttt*

Alli so did they decide to make it anll it themselves instead of selling the idea to sombody else?


----------



## alligood729

tmolina said:


> Alli so did they decide to make it anll it themselves instead of selling the idea to sombody else?


That seems to be the plan right now, unless someone makes an offer that is workable for everyone!! Thanks for the interest!!:smile:


----------



## johnno

Dave, I see the web site is now up....so when will the demo video be posted..or can you now provide some pics to ease some of the angst of the poor tortured soles !!


----------



## NewburgFarmboy

whats the website??


----------



## bosvaark

johnno said:


> Dave, I see the web site is now up....so when will the demo video be posted..or can you now provide some pics to ease some of the angst of the poor tortured soles !!


Hi this is Bernard & Steve the VIDEO will be up and runing 1st thing Monday morning 1st Dec 2008 it will be the best you have seen in a long time, We are very worked up about this this VIDEO, and as I have told you all, there will be some body of very high profile person doing the VIDEO for us ,we hope you can just hang in there 2 more day,s it,s on it,s way SUPER FAST SPEED
Thanks 
Bernard


----------



## Gajbird

*ttt*

http://www.bowturbow.com/


----------



## rutnstrut

First of all for all of you doubters if it bothers you that much why the hell are you sticking your unwanted noses in this thread. Some people just have to complain because they are unhappy with their own life so they have to try and mess with others. Second I am pumped for the Bow Turbo to be released. This product will really help a short draw archer like me. My DL is only 26" and even though one of my bows max at 75lbs I still can only get about 260 out of it. I love that I will get more speed and KE,plus with the new speed bow I am getting it will boost it even more. By putting the Bow Turbo on the new bow I should be able to shoot 450grain arrows and get awesome KE. Anyone that isn't excited about a product like this is pretty much an idiot.


----------



## wis_archer

rutnstrut said:


> First of all for all of you doubters if it bothers you that much why the hell are you sticking your unwanted noses in this thread. Some people just have to complain because they are unhappy with their own life so they have to try and mess with others. Second I am pumped for the Bow Turbo to be released. This product will really help a short draw archer like me. My DL is only 26" and even though one of my bows max at 75lbs I still can only get about 260 out of it. I love that I will get more speed and KE,plus with the new speed bow I am getting it will boost it even more. By putting the Bow Turbo on the new bow I should be able to shoot 450grain arrows and get awesome KE. Anyone that isn't excited about a product like this is pretty much an idiot.


I'm not exited until I see proof and actual reviews/experiences with it, especially on my bow. I'm withholding judgment until actual proof is out there.


----------



## ShootingABN!

:mg my ????


----------



## lungbuster29

*****

i want someone to pay me for spending 30 mins of my life that i will never get back for reading this crap and why in the blue heck would u put up a website with no pics that was another waste of my time and *AND SERIOUSLY JUST SHOOT WAHT U BOUGHT* is speed really that big of a deal for everyone


----------



## TDykes

Looks like Monday I will know if my new Z34 and TX-4 will be getting some added speed.


----------



## CMcG

New to your forum.

Sounds interesting, and the people seem to be confident in backing up what they are developing. :smile:


----------



## MaDsHaFtA

1, 2, 3,......................................................28, 29, and 30 mins.
There ya go paid in full. Its amazing that you want your 30 mins back but still found another 30 seconds or so of your "precious time" to post that! If your not intrested just Log out!!


----------



## SilentSniper

alligood729 said:


> That seems to be the plan right now, unless someone makes an offer that is workable for everyone!! Thanks for the interest!!:smile:


Tried.


----------



## dartman

Gajbird said:


> http://www.bowturbow.com/


Come on guys, I can't sneak a peek even after it's in the Shopping Cart...


----------



## ShootingABN!

This has got folks thinking......


----------



## alligood729

lungbuster29 said:


> i want someone to pay me for spending 30 mins of my life that i will never get back for reading this crap and why in the blue heck would u put up a website with no pics that was another waste of my time and *AND SERIOUSLY JUST SHOOT WAHT U BOUGHT* is speed really that big of a deal for everyone





MaDsHaFtA said:


> 1, 2, 3,......................................................28, 29, and 30 mins.
> There ya go paid in full. Its amazing that you want your 30 mins back but still found another 30 seconds or so of your "precious time" to post that! If your not intrested just Log out!!





SilentSniper said:


> Tried.





dartman said:


> Come on guys, I can't sneak a peek even after it's in the Shopping Cart...


In order from the top: No pics were at the request of the designers. Even with a provisional patent #, too many copy cats out there. Obviously you didn't read every post or you would have read the one from reylamb about the "new Apple bow press" that was someone elses idea to begin with. See that little arrow at the top left of the page?? Back out!

Madshafta, thanks!!!:shade::shade::smile::smile:

And Dartman, you have been supportive the whole time. Hand in bro, the video clip is really going to be a good one, filmed with a tv production camera, not a handheld Sony. I'm away from the shop til Monday for Thanksgiving, and can't get in touch with the guys. I did not think that the website would be up til Monday or Tuesday. 

I appreciate wiscarcher's post, "reserve judgement til you see and hear more". Absolutely!! I felt the same way til I got one on my bow! Don't blame you a bit!

And last but not least........"tried".. WELL.....................Not like this!!!:smile:


----------



## absolutecool

Well I am patiently waiting, if I can get 10 or more fps with my short draw and low poundage it will be great!!!


----------



## SilentSniper

alligood729 said:


> And last but not least........"tried".. WELL.....................Not like this!!!:smile:


I think you misunderstood my post.


----------



## alligood729

SilentSniper said:


> I think you misunderstood my post.


I think you are right!!!


----------



## 1Hunter

It looks like April has come a little early this year!!!


----------



## Robert Sowell

lungbuster29 said:


> i want someone to pay me for spending 30 mins of my life that i will never get back for reading this crap and why in the blue heck would u put up a website with no pics that was another waste of my time and *AND SERIOUSLY JUST SHOOT WAHT U BOUGHT* is speed really that big of a deal for everyone



I thing the number of replies and views to this thread will answer that for you. Look at all the new bows for this year. Speed is everything to bow purchasers. I like smooth. This product will let me keep my smooth bow and give me some speed.

Funny how most of the nay-sayers have less than 10 posts.


----------



## Robert Sowell

One more plug. I know all of these guys. They are all good honest people. If they say it is so, then it is.


----------



## bigbuckdn

still waiting to be a test shooter sombody impartial has to test the thing


----------



## RamRock

whatever it looks like i ordered 2 :teeth:


----------



## alligood729

*Hey guys!!!!*

PLEASE WAIT TIL MONDAY TO START ORDERING!! THE WEBSITE IS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT THE VIDEO CLIP, AND THE PRICING IS OFF JUST A LITTLE. NOT THAT WE DON'T WANT YOU TO VISIT, AND WE APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S INTEREST, BUT WE WANT YOU TO GET THE WHOLE "PICTURE" BEFORE YOU COMMIT!!! THANKS!!! ALLIGOOD:smile:


----------



## RamRock

WEEL its already ordered and have a order# so ill just go on your word dave:shade:, im not worried about being dissapointed:thumbs_up


----------



## deadx

alligood729 said:


> PLEASE WAIT TIL MONDAY TO START ORDERING!! THE WEBSITE IS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT THE VIDEO CLIP, AND THE PRICING IS OFF JUST A LITTLE. NOT THAT WE DON'T WANT YOU TO VISIT, AND WE APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S INTEREST, BUT WE WANT YOU TO GET THE WHOLE "PICTURE" BEFORE YOU COMMIT!!! THANKS!!! ALLIGOOD:smile:



Can you post the link to the web site?


----------



## RamRock

i beleve its
www.bowturbow.com


----------



## shootnAR

*Good luck*

I wish and hope everyone will give this product a chance. I always welcome innovation and new ideas. Getting more KE in youth bows would just be awsome. GOOD LUCK BOWTURBO!!


----------



## Flip Flop

Ya'll have to get a better pick on the website..you got THE guy with his arrow and release above the dual bras nock setsukey:

I'll send ya a pick if you need one

Can't wait to see this product!


----------



## NARLEYHORNS

*Im sure it will work....*

Really dont think he'd be going on about it, if it didnt work. This is good. With dropping to 4.00 grain per pound on your arrow weight, this would also add a little to a slower bows speed. If you have a bow built in the last 5-7 years ... it will shoot at 4 grains per # fine with a string stopper and be very quite also. Your warranty is crap anyway. Order you a new set of limbs. Drop to 4 grains. All theses new carbon arrows we have out in the market will continue to help get more speed out of all bows, old or new. 

If it EXPLODES all over the front yard .... just remember ducking aint an opition.:mg:

... Been there done that. This relates back to " Install new limbs first"


----------



## redman

like to give one a try on my target bow


----------



## waywardson

Can't wait to see this thing. With my wife's massive 25" draw and 35# draw weight, anything to help speed her arrows up would be nice!


----------



## Robert Sowell

I saw an older PSE primos go from 285 to 308 today at Steve's shop today. This device does everything they say it does. 23 feet per second gain, unreal.


----------



## alligood729

Robert Sowell said:


> I saw an older PSE primos go from 285 to 308 today at Steve's shop. This device does everything they say it does. 23 feet per second gain, unreal.


Thank you Robert!!!:smile::smile::smile:


----------



## bobinhood

*Mo speed*

can't wait to see one on my 26.5 dl pro elite . keep up the good work.


----------



## NJ-ATHENS

weres the pics of thise speed thing


----------



## ArcheryMachine

This has as much buzz if not more then the 2009 Mathews product release had. Look forward to seeing your product :darkbeer:


----------



## DarrinM

NEVADAPRO said:


> Oh my God!! PI is back:wink:


It/we never left!!!!!!:angel::angel::darkbeer:


----------



## TTripin

Cant wait to see this thing!


----------



## TTripin

I wonder if it is a arrow rest with a turbo button,when you press the button it squirts wd-40 on the rest.....:rofl:

:jksign:

Very interested in seeing this:darkbeer:


----------



## Toby from MO

alligood729 said:


> PLEASE WAIT TIL MONDAY TO START ORDERING!! THE WEBSITE IS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT THE VIDEO CLIP, AND THE PRICING IS OFF JUST A LITTLE. NOT THAT WE DON'T WANT YOU TO VISIT, AND WE APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S INTEREST, BUT WE WANT YOU TO GET THE WHOLE "PICTURE" BEFORE YOU COMMIT!!! THANKS!!! ALLIGOOD:smile:



To be honest...I don't need to see a picture first...if I don't like it I'll send it back.

What do the folks do that already placed an order? Do we pay the incorrect price or do we order again on Monday? I don't need two of these 

Also no selection between black or camo.

I sent you a PM earlier asking this question and I sent a message via the website to Steve & Bernard...I already placed my order and I want a black one.


----------



## alligood729

Toby from MO said:


> To be honest...I don't need to see a picture first...if I don't like it I'll send it back.
> 
> What do the folks do that already placed an order? Do we pay the incorrect price or do we order again on Monday? I don't need two of these
> 
> Also no selection between black or camo.
> 
> I sent you a PM earlier asking this question and I sent a message via the website to Steve & Bernard...I already placed my order and I want a black one.


As I stated in a previous post, the actual builder of the website put it up before we were completely ready. No need to reorder on Monday, and if I'm right about the price descrepancy, we'll take care of you. The site builder just got a little ahead of us, so please forgive us!

The color selection is one of the items that was left off the site. Remember, this is new ground for us, so please bear with us in the first few days so we can get the website completed. Thanks!!


----------



## Shaman

Pre-order page says "Camo" as an option.

Which camo?


----------



## Toby from MO

alligood729 said:


> As I stated in a previous post, the actual builder of the website put it up before we were completely ready. No need to reorder on Monday, and if I'm right about the price descrepancy, we'll take care of you. The site builder just got a little ahead of us, so please forgive us!
> 
> The color selection is one of the items that was left off the site. Remember, this is new ground for us, so please bear with us in the first few days so we can get the website completed. Thanks!!


Thanks Alli...


----------



## SilentSniper

Will it work on my recurve? :shade:


----------



## SilentSniper

Flip Flop said:


> Ya'll have to get a better pick on the website..you got THE guy with his arrow and release above the dual bras nock setsukey:
> 
> I'll send ya a pick if you need one
> 
> Can't wait to see this product!


Good eye I never noticed that.


----------



## bowtechman87

Flip Flop said:


> Ya'll have to get a better pick on the website..you got THE guy with his arrow and release above the dual bras nock setsukey:
> 
> I'll send ya a pick if you need one
> 
> Can't wait to see this product!



Looks like he's having a hard time looking through that peep that is almost at the tip of his nose also!


----------



## drockw

Flip Flop said:


> Ya'll have to get a better pick on the website..you got THE guy with his arrow and release above the dual bras nock setsukey:
> 
> I'll send ya a pick if you need one
> 
> Can't wait to see this product!


ROFL!!!! That is hilarious. I would have never noticed if it wasnt stated by someone else. 

Glad to see everything turned out good and is going to work! Ill probably be buying one for my girlfriends bow. 
Derek


----------



## H&S Archer

I have a new bow tuning spray coming out that will make peep sights and huge brass nocks just appear on and string making it 30-40 FPS faster. Wish me luck ..This might be :darkbeer:


----------



## alligood729

Just got home from a weekend trip for Thanksgiving, and see that the website has been updated even from Thursday. Go by and visit! The video clip should be ready to add to the site by Wednesday!!!


----------



## Hoyt Thompson

Guys you have me real interested here but I do not know If I can use this.
30" draw (really need 30.5") and 80#. Arrows are hard to come by and if I pick up another 30 FPS I will have to shoot 2419s or GrizzlyStix.

But,

I am very interested.


----------



## alligood729

Hoyt Thompson said:


> Guys you have me real interested here but I do not know If I can use this.
> 30" draw (really need 30.5") and 80#. Arrows are hard to come by and if I pick up another 30 FPS I will have to shoot 2419s or GrizzlyStix.
> 
> But,
> 
> I am very interested.


80# and 30"!!:mg: The good thing about it is, you have the option of turning the lbs down on your bow, and still getting the performance you get at 80lbs. Speed isn't the only good thing about the Turbow!!:smile::smile:


----------



## redman

lets see it how does it work


----------



## PMantle

No pics yet?


----------



## 442fps

Ok , i already asked some pages earlier , but never get an answer , therefore i ask again :

Will it change draw lenght or draw weight ?


----------



## JWT

From what I've read the answer would be no, that is in most cases. they have seen a d/w change of 1 or 3 lbs. on some bows.

If I'm wrong... oh well. we'll see eventually.


----------



## alligood729

442fps said:


> Ok , i already asked some pages earlier , but never get an answer , therefore i ask again :
> 
> Will it change draw lenght or draw weight ?





JWT said:


> From what I've read the answer would be no, that is in most cases. they have seen a d/w change of 1 or 3 lbs. on some bows.
> 
> If I'm wrong... oh well. we'll see eventually.


Thanks!! You are correct!!:shade:


----------



## INDBowhunter

Anybody have any pics of this thing? Can you zoom in on the video and see it? Could it be a stop on a cable guard to keep the slide from coming all the way back and pre stressing limbs more???


----------



## Justin17

Is there a date when we can expect to actually know what this thing is? I've been disappointed so far.


----------



## wis_archer

alligood729 said:


> 80# and 30"!!:mg: The good thing about it is, you have the option of turning the lbs down on your bow, and still getting the performance you get at 80lbs. Speed isn't the only good thing about the Turbow!!:smile::smile:


I wonder if 2712s would spine right.


----------



## mathews goat

I thought the video was gunna be up on monday???


----------



## Dugga Boy

I just watched the video on their website with Joella Bates.

Took a loooong time for loading and they didn't show a close-up.

You really know how to tease.


DB


----------



## Bnbfishin

You just need to get a PSE X-Force AC epsi:


absolutecool said:


> Well I am patiently waiting, if I can get 10 or more fps with my short draw and low poundage it will be great!!!


Ok something needs to be done with that video clip. It takes way to long to load and it isn't my computer 


Dugga Boy said:


> I just watched the video on their website with Joella Bates.
> 
> Took a loooong time for loading and they didn't show a close-up.
> 
> You really know how to tease.
> 
> 
> DB


----------



## alligood729

*Hey!!*

I'm at the shop right now, and we are having the discussion about pic closeups. The main reason that a closeup picture hasn't been posted is this:
We have been courteously reminded of other projects that were in the provisional stage, pics were released early, and someone else capitalized on their efforts before the patent was awarded to the original designer. That is reason enough. The website is up, but the site builder is currently working to update the video clips, I don't believe he was expecting the activity he is seeing!!!
The first nationwide public view will be at the ATA show in Indianapolis in January 2009. Until then, please reserve judgement on the Bow Turbow, and thanks for all the supporters, wellwishers, and the participation on the website. I have stated before that this is relatively new ground for us, and to say that we are overwhelmed and appreciative of the response is an understatement. We will be able to answer your technical questions, via the website. If you haven't seen the site, it's www.bowturbow.com Please remember too, that the site wasn't supposed to be fully up til Wed, but the web builder is overwhelmed at the response. There are 4 clips that should give you most everything you want to know!! Thanks again for your support!!!!! Alligood:smile:


----------



## Dugga Boy

alligood729 said:


> I'm at the shop right now, and we are having the discussion about pic closeups. The main reason that a closeup picture hasn't been posted is this:
> We have been courteously reminded of other projects that were in the provisional stage, pics were released early, and someone else capitalized on their efforts before the patent was awarded to the original designer. That is reason enough. The website is up, but the site builder is currently working to update the video clips, I don't believe he was expecting the activity he is seeing!!!
> The first nationwide public view will be at the ATA show in Indianapolis in January 2009. Until then, please reserve judgement on the Bow Turbow, and thanks for all the supporters, wellwishers, and the participation on the website. I have stated before that this is relatively new ground for us, and to say that we are overwhelmed and appreciative of the response is an understatement. We will be able to answer your technical questions, via the website. If you haven't seen the site, it's www.bowturbow.com Please remember too, that the site wasn't supposed to be fully up til Wed, but the web builder is overwhelmed at the response. There are 4 clips that should give you most everything you want to know!! Thanks again for your support!!!!! Alligood:smile:


I totally understand. Copy cats are a pain.

Take your time.
I got 32" draw length and I'm not in rush to speed up my bow.
Surely I will take the chance as soon as it's available.

All the best
DB


----------



## EricO

alligood729 said:


> I'm at the shop right now, and we are having the discussion about pic closeups. The main reason that a closeup picture hasn't been posted is this:
> We have been courteously reminded of other projects that were in the provisional stage, pics were released early, and someone else capitalized on their efforts before the patent was awarded to the original designer. That is reason enough. The website is up, but the site builder is currently working to update the video clips, I don't believe he was expecting the activity he is seeing!!!
> The first nationwide public view will be at the ATA show in Indianapolis in January 2009. Until then, please reserve judgement on the Bow Turbow, and thanks for all the supporters, wellwishers, and the participation on the website. I have stated before that this is relatively new ground for us, and to say that we are overwhelmed and appreciative of the response is an understatement. We will be able to answer your technical questions, via the website. If you haven't seen the site, it's www.bowturbow.com Please remember too, that the site wasn't supposed to be fully up til Wed, but the web builder is overwhelmed at the response. There are 4 clips that should give you most everything you want to know!! Thanks again for your support!!!!! Alligood:smile:


I won't have any $ till after christmas anyway.


----------



## Shaman

OK, seriously.

If you guy are planning to ship an actual product, having a video out 30 days earlier in a video clip is not going to hurt you at all. Once it ships, the whole world will know what it is anyone and the first day there will be pictures and video's plastered all over AT and every other archery forum. You can say what you want about generating interest, but you should have either waited a little bit until you knew your patent was rock solid, or be prepared that once you started taking orders that you would need to appropriately display the product.

Since I have a 26" draw, I'm understandably excited.


----------



## andy1996

Just remember that if it is a simple design, then someone in China will copy it--patents don't mean anything over there. They already did limbsaver knockoffs.


----------



## kattman

Do you take paypal? The site is not secure for a credit card number to be asked for. How can I send in a payment? I prefer to use sites that are secure for credit card info.

Thanks


----------



## alligood729

kattman said:


> Do you take paypal? The site is not secure for a credit card number to be asked for. How can I send in a payment? I prefer to use sites that are secure for credit card info.
> 
> Thanks


I sent you a pm!:smile:


----------



## Hoyt Thompson

OK no offense but I heard you say you were going to use a TV production camera for the video.
Looks as if it was shot on a cell phone. And the audio is horrible.

What gives?


----------



## alligood729

Hoyt Thompson said:


> OK no offense but I heard you say you were going to use a TV production camera for the video.
> Looks as if it was shot on a cell phone. And the audio is horrible.
> 
> What gives?


I have no idea. Maybe from transfer from the camera to the disc, or the disc to the computer, who knows? We did use the camera that we use to film our show that was on the Sportsman Channel for while, and we still use it for our local show. Usually super clear quality. We also used a Canon GL2, I wish all the video was there, but don't have an explanation for that either. I realize the thread might possible have been a little early, but the web builder just got a little ahead of himself. Don't know!


----------



## aug01build

It appears from the video that this goes on the cable slide--Will this work on a roller guard bow setup?


----------



## alligood729

aug01build said:


> It appears from the video that this goes on the cable slide--Will this work on a roller guard bow setup?


Not at present. Only bows with a standard 3/8" cable bar.


----------



## JPM4LIFE

Have you tried it on a 08" Diamond Marquis???


----------



## tigermax14

new videos are up on the site


----------



## Hemingway

tigermax14 said:


> new videos are up on the site


Watching them now... Thanks for the heads-up :thumb:

Edit: After watching, I have a couple of questions/suggestions. We need to see what the roller guard (that's what it is right?) does to the draw length and poundage for the speed increases to be relevant. This question has been asked at least a couple of times in this thread and so far we haven't gotten any definite answers. Also, I believe that somewhere way back in this huge thread someone actually asked if this was indeed a roller guard and was told that it wasn't. Could someone in the know please tell us what differentiates this product from any other roller guard on the market?


----------



## FallFever

Do the set screws along with the force exerted on the rollers cause any damage to the carbon cable guard over time ?

What happens if you allow the slide to float instead of locking it down with the set screws ?

FF


----------



## Shaman

alligood729 said:


> I have no idea. Maybe from transfer from the camera to the disc, or the disc to the computer, who knows? We did use the camera that we use to film our show that was on the Sportsman Channel for while, and we still use it for our local show. Usually super clear quality. We also used a Canon GL2, I wish all the video was there, but don't have an explanation for that either. I realize the thread might possible have been a little early, but the web builder just got a little ahead of himself. Don't know!


Videos on Youtube are compressed.
There are a few services, like megavideo.com, that let you upload in native format so there is no compression.

Can you answer the questions asked above:
1. Does it increase draw weight?
2. Does it decrease let-off?
3. Does it act as a normal cable slide if the set screws let go?


----------



## EricO

Hemingway said:


> Watching them now... Thanks for the heads-up :thumb:
> 
> Edit: After watching, I have a couple of questions/suggestions. We need to see what the roller guard (that's what it is right?) does to the draw length and poundage for the speed increases to be relevant. This question has been asked at least a couple of times in this thread and so far we haven't gotten any definite answers. Also, I believe that somewhere way back in this huge thread someone actually asked if this was indeed a roller guard and was told that it wasn't. Could someone in the know please tell us what differentiates this product from any other roller guard on the market?



+1 

Three Words. Draw force mapper.


----------



## ultramax

Hey Alli, On the website order form there is no address for someone to send the money to if they choose that option.


----------



## johnno

Also you may consider during any "before" and "after" testing video..that you constantly keep the same test arrow in the shot. Any time that the arrow disappears from out of the view may suggest to the more cynical that a different i.e lighter arrow is being used in the "after" sequence in order to gain the speed indicated. Maintaining a view of the same arrow in the shot only helps to boost the credibility of the testing and the continuity..cheers..:darkbeer:

And can we please see some testing with REAL hunting arrows in excess of 450gr..as I don't shoot toothpicks out of my bow...thanks !!


----------



## jwamp82

So from the looks of the video, you repositioned the cables forward and made the them stationary with a roller. How does this not dramatically change draw weight or draw length. I know you stated up to 3lbs increase, but I put a saunders hyperglide on just to get a little more vane clearance and it bumped me up about 2lbs. In the last video Joella bates installs one on a 40lb youth bow. The cables are stretched so far forward they almost touch the riser. I don't see how nothing significantly changes??????????????


----------



## Rambu

i think pearson was already selling these.... i seen it somewhere on AT... 

i would like to see a mapper of before and after on a bow.. the one pearson had added 5lbs.. and some draw length...


----------



## JC280

jwamp82 said:


> So from the looks of the video, you repositioned the cables forward and made the them stationary with a roller. How does this not dramatically change draw weight or draw length. I know you stated up to 3lbs increase, but I put a saunders hyperglide on just to get a little more vane clearance and it bumped me up about 2lbs. In the last video Joella bates installs one on a 40lb youth bow. The cables are stretched so far forward they almost touch the riser. I don't see how nothing significantly changes??????????????




If anyone tells you that your draw length and poundage won't change they are full of it! The longer your draw length the more change you will see. I'm sure the above product works but at what cost?:deadhorse

JC OUT!


----------



## mathews goat

alligood729 said:


> Not at present. Only bows with a standard 3/8" cable bar.


well that leaves us Mathews guys out. I would not have a bow with out a roller guard. That is one of the best things they have ever put on a bow.

It sounds like this thing is gunna increase draw lbs anyway. You cant get speed for free.


----------



## johnno

Not nocking it...but can someone please explain to me how the "Bowturbo" differs from this :....

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=787969


----------



## Toby from MO

Alli...My order has been placed but I have a few questions after seeing the videos.

Regarding bows currently using offset cable slides...i.e. XForce. You mentioned the need for a "straight" cable slide. You mentioned a replacement "straight" cable slide using an offset block (similar to STS) for the needed vane clearance.

1. Is this cable slide replacement included in the price of the BowTurbo? 

Also...back in post 256 & 257 the question was asked if Steve & Bernard's BowTurbo was the same Gizmo offered by Newberry...as FastPassThrough posted in the other thread. You said it was not.

The Newberry product seen here...http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=787969

Other than in aesthetical appearance can you please answer a few additional questions?

1. How does the functional applications/workings of the BowTurbo differ from Newberry product?

2. As they appear to be same type device how does the BowTurbo not suffer from all the same ill effects the Newberry product is known to have?

3. How does the BowTurbo differ from simply reducing the length of the roller guard on a Mathews or Bowtech?

4. How does the BowTurbo work on bows that have little/no cable slide movement? Do you add preload by forcing cables forward?

As I replied to FastPassThrough in the other thread...folks have been harnessing their cable slides for years. I'm suprised you guys have received such a jaw dropping response from the bow manufactures/reps as they frowned upon this very thing for years.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## fancycat

i do not believe there is anyway that you can put that on there and not have it up poundage i dont know about draw length but the poundage is your speed increase and i do not see the difference from the other one that fastpassthrough is talking about


----------



## jonnyriabov

Looks to me like its a cable slide conversion to a roller guard......The guy even says in the video that he is putting the cables on the rollers......... I guess we all know what all the manufacturers with the greatest speed increase will be using on the 2010 bows

I wonder if the two set screws clamp the replacement roller slide tight to the rod, or acctually bite into your stock cable slide rod?


----------



## steve hilliard

jonnyriabov said:


> Looks to me like its a cable slide conversion to a roller guard......The guy even says in the video that he is putting the cables on the rollers......... I guess we all know what all the manufacturers with the greatest speed increase will be using on the 2010 bows
> 
> I wonder if the two set screws clamp the replacement roller slide tight to the rod, or acctually bite into your stock cable slide rod?


I think your right, and all that for $60 :mg:


----------



## dotchess

*You know this will help me*

I have an injury to my left elbow and it would be great to back down my bow with out losing my speed!! Also my kids could get better speed out of their hunting bows without having the strain of holding if the animal is not in a good position!


----------



## wisetech

Huaco said:


> Could you imagine... 400 gr arrow at 290-300 fps. What exactly would KE be on that? Anybody want to calculate it?


I already shoot a PSE X-Force at 29/60 with a 417 grain arrow at 295 fps an get over 80 KE so why would I need one of these?? I think in the long run it will break limbs by stessing them more than they where made for.
Just my 2c.


----------



## Rinaldo2

If that thing works like I think it does and does not allow the cables to move along the cable guard and holds then in a static position on the guard then of course you are going to get more speed. Your draw length will be much longer and you will get more poundage...duh. If i want to micro adjust my draw I add a couple of twists in the cables thus lengthening my draw ever so slightly.:thumbs_do


----------



## Hoyt Thompson

I am skeptical......still.
I would need to see this and try this first.
On certain bows say a Hoyt, I could see it not altering the DL because it basically shortens both the CC and BC to keep the DL about right.

On others like say a McPherson dual cam I see it lengthening the draw.
I may be wrong about this but like I said i would have to see it and try it.

how this does not "add" poundage i am not sure unless it continues to use the cams eccentrics to stabilize the draw force curve. i would also think that the let off would be different.

Also i do not believe for one minute that this is a slap it on and play deal with a Hoyt Hybrid cam as the timing and sync will be altered by a static cable position and altering the CC and BC "lengths". I would bet you the minute you put it on one cam is ahead of the other. Not as advertised "put it on when you need it and take it off when you don't". I am not going to say the product does not work but it alters the dynamic geometry of the bow through out the draw cycle and the shot therefore requiring it to be tuned after installation.

Will wait to see what others think and some better video where we can see the bow during the draw cycle.
Chrono numbers are nice but the integrity of my bow is another. Also not to sure about set screws on my carbon cable rod. If I decide to swap back to a regular cable guard would the marred places on the rod not affect the slide travel? Seems to me it would have to be a permanent add on to me.

You are more than welcome to straighten me out on this either in conversation, better video, more details on the actual working premise of this device, a prototype, what ever floats you boat. i just am to skeptical that this is "plug and play" as was earlier claimed.


----------



## Andreas

It's quite clear that this thingy won't increace bow efficency enough to increase the claimed speed. You get basically 99% of the increase from a heavier draw and messed up draw length. The only feature in my opinion is the adjustability.


----------



## drockw

Im not going to sit here and be "skeptical". I saw it work. Yeah it may require tuning or whatever, but for 20-30fps, it would definately be worth it to some. The only concern i have is of the arrows. I know they say since poundage doesnt change you can shoot the same arrow faster. but that is still making the arrow change b/c it is pushing it faster thus, tuning arrows could be an issue. 

btw, could you imagine and Elite GT500 with one of these things on it:mg: can you say 350+fps. 

I think this product is incredible and the designers just hit the jackpot.

Derek


----------



## Justin17

The bows that will benefit most from this product will be bows without parallel limbs where the cable slide moves a long way. Restricting this movement is like shortening the cable dramatically which changes cam rotation that you won't notice so much at brace but when at full draw. Shortening the cable increases draw length and draw weight. I'm guessing the draw length is affected by inches to get those kinds of speeds.


----------



## REFLEXDEFLEX

Guys it's the EXACT same as shortening the cables. 
Effiency is unaffected, all you're doing is adding an extra "layer" onto the force draw curve. 
The draw weight is changed, but you don't feel it since it's changed all the way, from starting to anchor.


----------



## Rooster Cogburn

REFLEXDEFLEX said:


> Guys it's the EXACT same as shortening the cables.
> Effiency is unaffected, all you're doing is adding an extra "layer" onto the force draw curve.
> The draw weight is changed, but you don't feel it since it's changed all the way, from starting to anchor.



The draw force curve will remain the same shape, but poundage will be affected. You most likely will feel it a bit. Shortening the cables also adds draw length (as others have said).


----------



## Hemingway

drockw said:


> Im not going to sit here and be "skeptical". I saw it work. Yeah it may require tuning or whatever, but for 20-30fps, it would definately be worth it to some. The only concern i have is of the arrows. I know they say since poundage doesnt change you can shoot the same arrow faster. but that is still making the arrow change b/c it is pushing it faster thus, tuning arrows could be an issue.
> 
> btw, could you imagine and Elite GT500 with one of these things on it:mg: can you say 350+fps.
> 
> I think this product is incredible and the designers just hit the jackpot.
> 
> Derek


Did you measure the holding weight and peak draw weight before and after?


----------



## Rinaldo2

Justin17 said:


> Restricting this movement is like shortening the cable dramatically which changes cam rotation that you won't notice so much at brace but when at full draw. Shortening the cable increases draw length and draw weight. I'm guessing the draw length is affected by inches to get those kinds of speeds.


Bingo!!!! if I was a manufacturer I would not warranty the bow because it has been changed in the way it works.


----------



## 442fps

Sorry , but all i can see in the vids is a RCG which adds more load to the limbs , increased draw weight + increased draw lenght = faster , thats all .

Wouldn't do that to my limbs , it also won't be a surprise for me if we can see changes in the bow manufacturers warranty's , something like : if you use the Bowturbow , you will loose you warranty ukey:

I think they ( the manufacturers ) know why they use limb X for 60 , and limb Y for 70 lbs , with a gimmick like that it seems to be easy to overstress the limbs .


----------



## 442fps

I looked at the last video where J.Bates is shooting the 40 lbs bow and i noticed something interresting .

Take a closer look at the arrow in the arrow rest when she's at full draw .

At first , with the original cable slide , you cant see the point of the arrow , it's hidden behind the rest to the right .

But then , with the Bowturbow , you can see the point far inside the rest , which means nothing else to me , if the arrow was really the same , that the bow has a MUCH longer draw lenght now


----------



## Shaman

442fps said:


> if the arrow was really the same , that the bow has a MUCH longer draw lenght now


The question is though, is the longer DL somehow 'hidden'?
A person can not just plug and play if their actual DL goes from 26" to 28".
You would be shooting all over the place.


----------



## Pearsonguy305

*it doesnt*

can someone say INfridgement. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, oh well , i tried to tell you guys, all this on the forum and it comes down to a copy cat patent. good try but no cigar? there have been this same design for sometime now, but good luck you you guys who buy it ,maybe it will help , check warranty on your bow tho b4 you mount any devise that adds speed. better be safe than sorry, some bows have enough speed without the use of these.speed aint all its cracked up to be, not sure the deer actually cares how fast arrow went threw it at.IMO


----------



## pepi

442fps is correct. I looked over the last video and I could also notice a change on the arrow when at full draw. I like it, but I think it does change your draw length.


----------



## Rinaldo2

*Bs*

After looking even harder at the video the draw length is longer those cables being held in a static position definitely lengthen your draw and add poundage. I tried it on my bow at home an oldish hoyt with cam and half. I put 15 twists in both cables and lo and behold my draw length was increased and so was my poundage. Its all marketing BS:thumbs_do if I want more speed and a draw that no longer fits me I will increase my draw by changing the position of my modules. I won't have to spend any extra money and keep my warranty in tact.How gullible do they think we are?


----------



## joffutt1

Isnt this just converting the cable slide to a roller guard? This sounds like a good idea if you have strong limbs. Since i have 60-70 pound limbs and have them at 60 i dont think it would put to much pressure on them. On the other hand i dont know what would happen if you on the upper end of the weight of the limbs. Anyone try it?


----------



## outbackarcher

442fps said:


> I looked at the last video where J.Bates is shooting the 40 lbs bow and i noticed something interresting .
> 
> Take a closer look at the arrow in the arrow rest when she's at full draw .
> 
> At first , with the original cable slide , you cant see the point of the arrow , it's hidden behind the rest to the right .
> 
> But then , with the Bowturbow , you can see the point far inside the rest , which means nothing else to me , if the arrow was really the same , that the bow has a MUCH longer draw lenght now



Yep I saw that too. Therefore either the draw is about 1 1/2 inches longer or that is a different arrow. I also don't see how this is any different than the Newberry product.

I would like to see a better video where the draw length is measured with the stock slide on it and then with the turbow on it. I would also like to see it pulled down on a poundage scale before and after.

If I see this and and everything measures the same then I will be a believer but these videos have made me skeptical. I just about ordered one of these a couple of days ago, but after seeing the videos I am glad I waited.


----------



## Rinaldo2

joffutt1 said:


> Isnt this just converting the cable slide to a roller guard? This sounds like a good idea if you have strong limbs. Since i have 60-70 pound limbs and have them at 60 i dont think it would put to much pressure on them. On the other hand i dont know what would happen if you on the upper end of the weight of the limbs. Anyone try it?


Why not increase the poundage and lengthen your draw without spending an extra cent that all they are doing with this gadget.


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## mathews goat

wouldn't changing the length of your cables also affect your brace height?


----------



## whitewater00

Don't you all love when manufacturers like this try to blow smoke up your ... (you know where). Of course it shoots faster, but draw length is increased tremendously when the cables are pinned forward. If your cam isn't designed for this loading like the Matthews bows with stock roller guards or LimbSavers new fixed cable guard than the force draw is messed up and the draw length is altered. 
If you are concerned with speed try buying a bow that is actually designed for this type of loading.


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## Just 1 More

:moviecorn:moviecorn:moviecorn


----------



## jersey bob

A silly question: Why can't I go to Home Depot or NAPA and get a thick washer with a 3/8 in. hole in it, and then drill and tap it for set screws?

Then I can pin my cable slide in place (I use the Sims teflon one) and have about the same effect for about $1.00 (OK, about $10, if I let the NAPA machine shop do it for me.)


----------



## cmherrmann

442fps said:


> I looked at the last video where J.Bates is shooting the 40 lbs bow and i noticed something interresting .
> 
> Take a closer look at the arrow in the arrow rest when she's at full draw .
> 
> At first , with the original cable slide , you cant see the point of the arrow , it's hidden behind the rest to the right .
> 
> But then , with the Bowturbow , you can see the point far inside the rest , which means nothing else to me , if the arrow was really the same , that the bow has a MUCH longer draw lenght now


If you look close when she installs the bowturbo on the 40 lb bow she moves it much closer to the riser that when it was installed on the other bows, thus the much larger gain in speed and longer draw. 

It looked like when they installed the bowturbo on the other bows that it was placed very close to where the other cable slide was when at rest, thus less speed gain and probably less or little gain in draw length.


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## jersey bob

*Question--can I do the same thing for about $1.00???*

Question: If I get a washer with a 3/8 in. hole in it, and tap it for set screws, then can't I use it to pin down my cable slide and get the same impact for about $1.00??


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## mathews goat

I just watched the videos. I'm not impressed. Looks like it makes the bow do something it was never designed to do.


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## andy1996

jersey bob said:


> Question: If I get a washer with a 3/8 in. hole in it, and tap it for set screws, then can't I use it to pin down my cable slide and get the same impact for about $1.00??


+1 --looks unsafe--something the bow was never designed to do!


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## Toby from MO

cmherrmann said:


> If you look close when she installs the bowturbo on the 40 lb bow she moves it much closer to the riser that when it was installed on the other bows, thus the much larger gain in speed and longer draw.
> 
> It looked like when they installed the bowturbo on the other bows that it was placed very close to where the other cable slide was when at rest, thus less speed gain and probably less or little gain in draw length.


Yep...Watch the video showing the kids bow again. Notice the bend in her bow arm before and after. The before shot she has her bow arm bent quite a bit to accomodate the short draw. After the Turbo is installed her bow arm is nearly straight. I hope this drastic change in draw length is only representative of the most severe adjustment.


----------



## Q2DEATH

Has the draw length question been answered? 

Did I just miss it?

Does this gizmo make the draw length of the bow longer, yes or no?

I have a 38 Ultra I'm wanting to get a little more speed out of for my 470 grain hunting arrows. I was going to buy a set of 75# max limbs. The limbs give me more draw weight which in turn gives me more speed at the same draw length. I would rather spend 60 for this than 200+ for the limbs but ONLY if this thing DOES NOT change my draw length.

Whats the answer?


----------



## Guest

if you want to see what it does simply take your bow place it in a press and pull down on the cables, you will see that doing that causes more wrap onthe cam, hence longer...more wrap equal higher poundage as well. The more you pull the cables the longer the draw and higher the poundage will go.


Does anyone remember the old Bear whitetail, they did exactly this with their rollers.


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## bigmo101

*Warranty Issues*

I know these guys were saying that one of the manufacturers were taking a look at this product and that it wouldn't void the bow warranty. We'll see if that holds up when the other companies get a hold of this product. Also looks to me like a Mathews Roller Guard, just on the reverse side.

With that being said, I'll probably take 2!


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## Pearsonguy305

*ok wow i really feel liek a @ss*

I owe those guys a big apology, and ill man up and do it right here, i wiached the video and seen it and i have to say it is something that will have aplace in archery, im sure they will sell tons of them, alligood please accpet my apology and pas sit along to all at bowturbo, man i hate to be wrong , but i jumped the ship early on that, high fives.


----------



## rutnstrut

Here is a novel idea for you doubters. Shut up until you actually have your hands on one. I hate it when someone has a new idea and all you old schoolers yell gimmick. Remember that funny bow with the wheels on it was a "gimmick" at one time,one that the nay sayers said would never last.


----------



## Scott.Barrett

rutnstrut said:


> Here is a novel idea for you doubters. Shut up until you actually have your hands on one. I hate it when someone has a new idea and all you old schoolers yell gimmick. Remember that funny bow with the wheels on it was a "gimmick" at one time,one that the nay sayers said would never last.


....Or maybe some of us new schoolers who have a decent understanding of physics and engineering and how a bow works will tell you it's a gimmick now so you can save your money and probably your bow limbs and maybe an eye :mg:

C'mon guys...you know what it takes to get speed....

1.Increase draw length
2.Increase draw weight
3.Increase efficiency 
4.Decrease weight

These are the ONLY ways to get more speed. Tell me which one of these they are doing....(I'll give you a hint...it ain't 3 or 4)

Who remembers the old Bear bows that used to have the pulleys to adjust the draw weight attached to the riser? Same concept, 20 years later....


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## Rambu

rutnstrut said:


> Here is a novel idea for you doubters. Shut up until you actually have your hands on one. I hate it when someone has a new idea and all you old schoolers yell gimmick. Remember that funny bow with the wheels on it was a "gimmick" at one time,one that the nay sayers said would never last.


this post was started weeks before they released anything.... i think we earned the right to talk about it till they ship now.. they started early... now its our turn..

its nothing personal rutnstrut....


on a lighter note... just wondering but it says in the rules posting something you know to be wrong is against the rules.. alli posted it does not change the weight or length... think he will get a time out when we get our hands on one and prove it does increase weight and length? :darkbeer:


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## Rambu

Pearsonguy305 said:


> I owe those guys a big apology, and ill man up and do it right here, i wiached the video and seen it and i have to say it is something that will have aplace in archery, im sure they will sell tons of them, alligood please accpet my apology and pas sit along to all at bowturbo, man i hate to be wrong , but i jumped the ship early on that, high fives.


did you see a video i did not see??????????????????????????


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## Toby from MO

By simply immobilizing the cables/cable slide…there is no question the draw weight will increase as will the draw length increase with the additional limb deflection at full draw…by how much depends on much travel you remove from your existing cable slide and/or how aggressively you set the Turbo.

For example, bows that have little to no cable slide travel. In this case setting the Turbo at “factory” cable location will deliver the least amount of speed increase as well as the least amount of draw weight & draw length changes. The opposite would be true if the Turbo was installed to harness the cables closer to the riser. Thus exaggerating cable position in the “negative” direction will increase the preload, thus add more draw weight, and increase limb deflection, thus add more draw length.

On the other hand, bows that have a lot of cable slide travel. In this case the setting and fine adjustments of the Turbo will be more critical and the poundage and draw length increases larger simply due to so much cables slide movement being immobilized. In this case there may be little difference between a conservative vs. aggressive setting…added draw weight and length is likely noticed in either setting.

All be it, I’m still interested. The roller guard by itself eliminates forward/reward moving cables thus eliminates these cable vibrations and quiets the bow. It will also extend cable life vs. traditional cable slide. These are worthy improvement in themselves. 

That said, I shoot an XForce which has very little cable slide travel to begin with. My current draw weight is approximately 68lbs. Assuming I set the Turbo near factory cable position and I gain 2lbs draw weight. This is manageable and I’m still within the limits of my 70lb limbs…not to mention the bow bottoms out at approximately 72lbs. A negligible draw length increase of say 1/8” – 1/4" is easily compensated for by changing length of release and/or Dloop. If I could get a 10-15fps increase from this setup I would be a happy camper @ 350 fps and/or drop my existing draw weight down to 64-65 lbs and still get 335 fps.


----------



## wis_archer

I finished watching the videos...and no thank you.

If I want a higher poundage, I'll either crank my limbs down or buy a higher draw weight.

If I want my draw length longer, I'll let out the string a little or buy larger cams.

If it didn't change (the draw back) draw cycle, I'd consider one, but with all due respect your product does nothing that I can't do by just adjusting weight or draw length.


----------



## Flip Flop

442fps said:


> I looked at the last video where J.Bates is shooting the 40 lbs bow and i noticed something interresting .
> 
> Take a closer look at the arrow in the arrow rest when she's at full draw .
> 
> At first , with the original cable slide , you cant see the point of the arrow , it's hidden behind the rest to the right .
> 
> But then , with the Bowturbow , you can see the point far inside the rest , which means nothing else to me , if the arrow was really the same , that the bow has a MUCH longer draw lenght now


I just went and checked that....great observation!

Looks to be substantially longer now. Just have to wait to make one for myself to get a straight answer I quess


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## redman

don k. from genesis archery was making roller cable 20 years ago
it add weight to bow and makes draw longer and less let off


----------



## bobbyg

Its gimmick pure and simple, it changes weight, cam rotation, limb load, draw length. No magic just smoke and mirrors. In archery to get speed you have to pay a price, and I guess its 59.99. 

watch this video and watch closely on the first shot. You can see the arrow sticking way out in front of the whisker biscuit 205fps. Then watch after she installs the turbo, the arrow is almost up to the whisker biscuit at full draw. thats almost 2 inches longer and would bet its pulling a solid 50 lbs after its installed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc1Tggqi8ng&feature=related


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## cabotvt

All this thing does for me is remind me of all the new

TELL'M BILLY SENT YOU commercials on TV now I'm surprised its not 19.95 but wait buy now and we will throw in the TurboQuiver just pay extra shipping and handling.

Sorry but its not a new thing just put electrical tape on your cable slide rod like we use to do when speed was the craze.

But I wish you well as this is America. If you really want speed try putting elastic bands from the bow to the cable slide that will give you lots of zing without the preload. We did that too


----------



## thunderchicken2

bobbyg said:


> Its gimmick pure and simple, it changes weight, cam rotation, limb load, draw length. No magic just smoke and mirrors. In archery to get speed you have to pay a price, and I guess its 59.99.
> 
> watch this video and watch closely on the first shot. You can see the arrow sticking way out in front of the whisker biscuit 205fps. Then watch after she installs the turbo, the arrow is almost up to the whisker biscuit at full draw. thats almost 2 inches longer and would bet its pulling a solid 50 lbs after its installed.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc1Tggqi8ng&feature=related



agreed. Either they are using a different arrow, or the DL has been drastically changed


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## abbgdr

WOW!!! Don't tell me you didn't see this coming,,, how about the picture of the archer on the home page with the arrow nocked below his release... I'll bet they were banking on selling a bunch of these before the vids showed up. But wait,, watch this,, there's more, if you buy right now we'll have more X mas money and you'll have less... What a Scam!!! variations of this concept have been around for years!


----------



## alligood729

wideerhunt said:


> this post was started weeks before they released anything.... i think we earned the right to talk about it till they ship now.. they started early... now its our turn..
> 
> its nothing personal rutnstrut....
> 
> 
> on a lighter note... just wondering but it says in the rules posting something you know to be wrong is against the rules.. alli posted it does not change the weight or length... think he will get a time out when we get our hands on one and prove it does increase weight and length? :darkbeer:


If you take the time to read the posts I made in the thread, you will find that I was a little excited at first, with the performance I saw in my own bow. After I did some more testing at the shop, I discovered that my bow went from 60lbs to 61.5/62lbs. I've stated that several times. I also mistakenly stated that my draw length didn't change. Just to make sure I wasn't misleading anyone, I checked that today too. I found that I added a whole 1/8" to my draw. The timing was still good, cams in sync, no lean, and the only adjustment I had to make was to adjust my sight pin to accomodate the increase in speed!!! So, if anyone thinks that I would lie on purpose, just to promote this product, you are wrong. My enthusiasm over rode the fact that I spoke before I tested my bow fully. I never claimed to be a bow technician, and still don't. So, if anyone feels that I was misleading about the changes in my bow, I apologize fully. However, for the 20fps more I got, I'll take 2lbs and 1/8" more any day of the week. What surprises me the most is all the guys that haven't laid a hand on one, but can only compare it to something "20yrs old that didn't work then". I think it's also been said here too, that not too many years ago, a 300+fps bow was unheard of. Now it is commonplace. Is it too much to think that an idea that wouldn't work on yesterday's bows, might be improved upon so that it would work with today's technology?
I'm just like the vast majority of you guys on here, I'm an average shooter/hunter that is happy to see that there are some with the ingenuity to try a new twist on an old concept. 
I really think it's great that there are some questions as to how it works. That is how improvements are made on most anything. 
I have no vested interest in the Turbow either, other than the time I have spent on here answering pms. And I don't mind at all!! I'm just asking that you don't kill the messenger!!! All I know, is that my bow is faster, quieter, has less vibration at the shot, and I can still put one thru a deer's boiler room with no trouble at all!!


----------



## bosvaark

Pearsonguy305 said:


> I owe those guys a big apology, and ill man up and do it right here, i wiached the video and seen it and i have to say it is something that will have aplace in archery, im sure they will sell tons of them, alligood please accpet my apology and pas sit along to all at bowturbo, man i hate to be wrong , but i jumped the ship early on that, high fives.


Hi this is Bernard I see you have got of the short bus welcome back, I hope the ride was not what you had though it was going to be ,but welcome, thank you for your in put , you deed not know that I have also shot for ben pearson back 2 years ago ,Bill Harris was there at the time ,and now has moved on as the rest of us have.:mg:


----------



## johnno

Mmmm...is it just me or do the "demo" vids on the "bowturbo" site no longer load or play..:mg: :mg: :mg:


----------



## Sticks N Strings

Loading for me..........


----------



## Rj 1

*Set screws into a carbon rod*

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed how much of a load is put on the cable slide rod when a bow is at full draw ? With that being said now put two sets in on it tightly and you will be lucky if the cable rod does not snap off. I understand the principal of what it does but is it going to cause safety issues down the road?


----------



## absolutecool

So, if it increases your draw weight and you don't like that can't you just back it down a couple of turns and it will compensate? Since I shoot 45 pounds and 27 inch draw I could back it down to maybe 43 and put my 26 1/2 in mods back on and I would be set and still have some more speed. Then if my bow were too fast I could actually shoot a fatter arrow and slow it down...!!!! Awesome for a short draw low poundage person!!


----------



## Scott.Barrett

absolutecool said:


> So, if it increases your draw weight and you don't like that can't you just back it down a couple of turns and it will compensate? Since I shoot 45 pounds and 27 inch draw I could back it down to maybe 43 and put my 26 1/2 in mods back on and I would be set and still have some more speed. Then if my bow were too fast I could actually shoot a fatter arrow and slow it down...!!!! Awesome for a short draw low poundage person!!



Nope...won't work....if it increased the draw weight from 45 to 50lbs and then you turn it back down to 40, you are right back where you started. 

Now if you need extra weight, it will do the job, but you take a lot of risk to do it that way....


----------



## tmolina

*ttt*

This is what fasspassthrough posted on the other thread about gaining 15fps with a roller gaurd:
Lol 4" inches of draw length you will gain a little but to be exact it is around 1/8" and the poundage will go up about 6#s as I have always claimed since they started shipping in 2005 we have sold 1000s of these, and have continued to sell, now for you that really know the tricks you can add 1/8 to 1/4 to your cables get the draw and poundage back down and still have a great increase in speed with the benefits a roller that is quieter on the draw, takes bow shock and vibration to nothing because now you have one less thing going forward on the shot. 
__________________


----------



## GIG

alligood729 said:


> If you take the time to read the posts I made in the thread, you will find that I was a little excited at first, with the performance I saw in my own bow. After I did some more testing at the shop, I discovered that my bow went from 60lbs to 61.5/62lbs. I've stated that several times. I also mistakenly stated that my draw length didn't change. Just to make sure I wasn't misleading anyone, I checked that today too. I found that I added a whole 1/8" to my draw. The timing was still good, cams in sync, no lean, and the only adjustment I had to make was to adjust my sight pin to accomodate the increase in speed!!! So, if anyone thinks that I would lie on purpose, just to promote this product, you are wrong. My enthusiasm over rode the fact that I spoke before I tested my bow fully. I never claimed to be a bow technician, and still don't. So, if anyone feels that I was misleading about the changes in my bow, I apologize fully. However, for the 20fps more I got, I'll take 2lbs and 1/8" more any day of the week. What surprises me the most is all the guys that haven't laid a hand on one, but can only compare it to something "20yrs old that didn't work then". I think it's also been said here too, that not too many years ago, a 300+fps bow was unheard of. Now it is commonplace. Is it too much to think that an idea that wouldn't work on yesterday's bows, might be improved upon so that it would work with today's technology?
> I'm just like the vast majority of you guys on here, I'm an average shooter/hunter that is happy to see that there are some with the ingenuity to try a new twist on an old concept.
> I really think it's great that there are some questions as to how it works. That is how improvements are made on most anything.
> I have no vested interest in the Turbow either, other than the time I have spent on here answering pms. And I don't mind at all!! I'm just asking that you don't kill the messenger!!! All I know, is that my bow is faster, quieter, has less vibration at the shot, and I can still put one thru a deer's boiler room with no trouble at all!!


Can you show us a force draw map with and with out. Thats what we need to see. thanks Gary sims limbsaver.


----------



## Texbama

gig said:


> can you show us a force draw map with and with out. Thats what we need to see. Thanks gary sims limbsaver.


x2


----------



## HotLZ

GIG said:


> Can you show us a force draw map with and with out. Thats what we need to see. thanks Gary sims limbsaver.


Why would they want to do that and go spoil all of this free publicity they're getting here on AT?


----------



## Len in Maryland

*Is the speed worth personal injury and equipment damage??*

*You don't hear from me that often, but this is a major safety issue that I felt should be addressed. Keep in mind that there was a lawsuit about 8 years ago about someone loosing an eye due to a cable guard letting loose. 

Warranty issues with the bow manufacturers would definitely arise concerning this product. Just as with the case of roller guards, the limbs will be stressed more by adding this device. The manufacturers have to compensate the design of the limbs for roller guards and that design compensation is not projected using this product.

Any damage to the limbs might not occur immediately, but I wouldn't want to buy a used bow from someone who correctly or possibly incorrectly used this product. Keep in mind that they just attached it with little regard to calculated stress factors. Can you imagine someone really pushing that thing a couple inches towards the riser to increase speed even more? Talk about preload. Questions that didn't seem to be actively addressed or checked were draw weight after installation. How much preload can be used? Actual effect on draw length?

Now that I've discussed the potential damage to the bow, let me address personal injury. At full draw you'll have rear ward pressure on a carbon rod that is held in place by a couple of set screws or glue. This rod was never meant to take excessive pull force. Then you'll have to place a piece of metal to usually a carbon rod that is not meant to take this kind of pressure generated by the set screws. This can easily create cracks in the carbon slide causing even more problems.

Depending on how far this device mounted forward, and depending on the bow design, varying forces will be amplified over what is normal. When the bow is drawn the force trying to drive the slide rod backwards would be like an arrow headed straight for the shooters eye with most of today's bow designs. 

These are questions/issues that, for the most part, I can check with instrumentation/tools that I have designed and have readily available.
I had the parts available at the shop to make and duplicate this product. 

I did some analyses on two different bow designs. Without getting into all the detail, which I'll make available to customers coming into the shop, this design is dangerous to both the bow and the shooter. 

As others have suggested, DL and DW did increase depending on bow design. My testing was done using a bow set only at 60# and I'm glad I used some discretion. With it on my draw machine and moving the device from zero/static to 1/2" closer to the riser to increase speed, the unit let loose, probably due to the camo finish becoming somewhat of a lubricant, and became a backward projectile. Had I been drawing the bow by hand, I would have been hit in the face.

Yes, your arrow speed will increase due to both DL and DW increasing, but the possible consequences of adding this product to your bow are NOT worth it.

IMPO, keep your money in your pocket. *


----------



## Q2DEATH

Len in Maryland said:


> *You don't hear from me that often, but this is a major safety issue that I felt should be addressed. Keep in mind that there was a lawsuit about 8 years ago about someone loosing an eye due to a cable guard letting loose.
> 
> Warranty issues with the bow manufacturers would definitely arise concerning this product. Just as with the case of roller guards, the limbs will be stressed more by adding this device. The manufacturers have to compensate the design of the limbs for roller guards and that design compensation is not projected using this product.
> 
> Any damage to the limbs might not occur immediately, but I wouldn't want to buy a used bow from someone who correctly or possibly incorrectly used this product. Keep in mind that they just attached it with little regard to calculated stress factors. Can you imagine someone really pushing that thing a couple inches towards the riser to increase speed even more? Talk about preload. Questions that didn't seem to be actively addressed or checked were draw weight after installation. How much preload can be used? Actual effect on draw length?
> 
> Now that I've discussed the potential damage to the bow, let me address personal injury. At full draw you'll have rear ward pressure on a carbon rod that is held in place by a couple of set screws or glue. This rod was never meant to take excessive pull force. Then you'll have to place a piece of metal to usually a carbon rod that is not meant to take this kind of pressure generated by the set screws. This can easily create cracks in the carbon slide causing even more problems.
> 
> Depending on how far this device mounted forward, and depending on the bow design, varying forces will be amplified over what is normal. When the bow is drawn the force trying to drive the slide rod backwards would be like an arrow headed straight for the shooters eye with most of today's bow designs.
> 
> These are questions/issues that, for the most part, I can check with instrumentation/tools that I have designed and have readily available.
> I had the parts available at the shop to make and duplicate this product.
> 
> I did some analyses on two different bow designs. Without getting into all the detail, which I'll make available to customers coming into the shop, this design is dangerous to both the bow and the shooter.
> 
> As others have suggested, DL and DW did increase depending on bow design. My testing was done using a bow set only at 60# and I'm glad I used some discretion. With it on my draw machine and moving the device from zero/static to 1/2" closer to the riser to increase speed, the unit let loose, probably due to the camo finish becoming somewhat of a lubricant, and became a backward projectile. Had I been drawing the bow by hand, I would have been hit in the face.
> 
> Yes, your arrow speed will increase due to both DL and DW increasing, but the possible consequences of adding this product to your bow are NOT worth it.
> 
> IMPO, keep your money in your pocket. *


Yikes, thats enough for me. Thanks for speaking up.


----------



## GIG

Len in Maryland said:


> *You don't hear from me that often, but this is a major safety issue that I felt should be addressed. Keep in mind that there was a lawsuit about 8 years ago about someone loosing an eye due to a cable guard letting loose.
> 
> Warranty issues with the bow manufacturers would definitely arise concerning this product. Just as with the case of roller guards, the limbs will be stressed more by adding this device. The manufacturers have to compensate the design of the limbs for roller guards and that design compensation is not projected using this product.
> 
> Any damage to the limbs might not occur immediately, but I wouldn't want to buy a used bow from someone who correctly or possibly incorrectly used this product. Keep in mind that they just attached it with little regard to calculated stress factors. Can you imagine someone really pushing that thing a couple inches towards the riser to increase speed even more? Talk about preload. Questions that didn't seem to be actively addressed or checked were draw weight after installation. How much preload can be used? Actual effect on draw length?
> 
> Now that I've discussed the potential damage to the bow, let me address personal injury. At full draw you'll have rear ward pressure on a carbon rod that is held in place by a couple of set screws or glue. This rod was never meant to take excessive pull force. Then you'll have to place a piece of metal to usually a carbon rod that is not meant to take this kind of pressure generated by the set screws. This can easily create cracks in the carbon slide causing even more problems.
> 
> Depending on how far this device mounted forward, and depending on the bow design, varying forces will be amplified over what is normal. When the bow is drawn the force trying to drive the slide rod back wards would be like an arrow headed straight for the shooters eye with most of today's bow designs.
> 
> These are questions/issues that, for the most part, I can check with instrumentation/tools that I have designed and have readily available.
> I had the parts available at the shop to make and duplicate this product.
> 
> I did some analyses on two different bow designs. Without getting into all the detail, which I'll make available to customers coming into the shop, this design is dangerous to both the bow and the shooter.
> 
> As others have suggested, DL and DW did increase depending on bow design. My testing was done using a bow set only at 60# and I'm glad I used some discretion. With it on my draw machine and moving the device from zero/static to 1/2" closer to the riser to increase speed, the unit let loose, probably due to the camo finish becoming somewhat of a lubricant, and became a backward projectile. Had I been drawing the bow by hand, I would have been hit in the face.
> 
> Yes, your arrow speed will increase due to both DL and DW increasing, but the possible consequences of adding this product to your bow are NOT worth it.
> 
> IMPO, keep your money in your pocket. *


I just took a 3/4'' washer with a 3/8'' hole push my cable slide 1/2'' forward tape it and got 7 ft faster but was a lot harder to draw. And the cable slide push the washer back to the end of rod. WOW CAN I SALE YOU A FACE SHIELD.


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## wis_archer

+1, really poor design....I never thought about the safety of it that way.....


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## Swifty1

Pride Hunter said:


> Need a test pilot?


Haha. Go to www.turbobow.com. It has videos and such about the product. I dont think it will work for Mathews because Mathews has a roller guard>:mg::mg::mg::mg:


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## promod1385

Swifty1 said:


> Haha. Go to www.turbobow.com. It has videos and such about the product. I dont think it will work for Mathews because Mathews has a roller guard>:mg::mg::mg::mg:



Link does not work.


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## LEADWORKS

promod1385 said:


> Link does not work.


Hopefully that's because they decided not to try to produce that product. That thing is a major safety risk, and it throws your bow out of spec. :thumbs_do:thumbs_do:thumbs_do


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## Mink

promod1385 said:


> Link does not work.


http://www.bowturbo.com/


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## Mink

johnno said:


> Mmmm...is it just me or do the "demo" vids on the "bowturbo" site no longer load or play..:mg: :mg: :mg:


They moved them to Youtube because there server couldn't take the load.

http://www.youtube.com/user/bwanak1


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## jason060788

By using this product you are lengthening your draw and increasing your poundage by holding the cables in a fixed position by tightening the bowturbo to the cable guard...This is a quote from bowturbo on YouTube "has 2 set screws that you want to make sure that are very secure ").....this as I said earlier holds the cables in a fixed position to the cable guard....existing bows that already have a fixed roller cable guard, (Mathews) they already have this technology into their bows. No way I'm buying one.....undo stress on the cable guard :mg: exploding bows are on the way :evil5:


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## 1Hunter

*Buyer Beware*

Good points Len, thank you! Buyer Beware.

*Originally Posted by Len in Maryland 

You don't hear from me that often, but this is a major safety issue that I felt should be addressed. Keep in mind that there was a lawsuit about 8 years ago about someone loosing an eye due to a cable guard letting loose. 

Warranty issues with the bow manufacturers would definitely arise concerning this product. Just as with the case of roller guards, the limbs will be stressed more by adding this device. The manufacturers have to compensate the design of the limbs for roller guards and that design compensation is not projected using this product.

Any damage to the limbs might not occur immediately, but I wouldn't want to buy a used bow from someone who correctly or possibly incorrectly used this product. Keep in mind that they just attached it with little regard to calculated stress factors. Can you imagine someone really pushing that thing a couple inches towards the riser to increase speed even more? Talk about preload. Questions that didn't seem to be actively addressed or checked were draw weight after installation. How much preload can be used? Actual effect on draw length?

Now that I've discussed the potential damage to the bow, let me address personal injury. At full draw you'll have rear ward pressure on a carbon rod that is held in place by a couple of set screws or glue. This rod was never meant to take excessive pull force. Then you'll have to place a piece of metal to usually a carbon rod that is not meant to take this kind of pressure generated by the set screws. This can easily create cracks in the carbon slide causing even more problems.

Depending on how far this device mounted forward, and depending on the bow design, varying forces will be amplified over what is normal. When the bow is drawn the force trying to drive the slide rod backwards would be like an arrow headed straight for the shooters eye with most of today's bow designs. 

These are questions/issues that, for the most part, I can check with instrumentation/tools that I have designed and have readily available.
I had the parts available at the shop to make and duplicate this product. 

I did some analyses on two different bow designs. Without getting into all the detail, which I'll make available to customers coming into the shop, this design is dangerous to both the bow and the shooter. 

As others have suggested, DL and DW did increase depending on bow design. My testing was done using a bow set only at 60# and I'm glad I used some discretion. With it on my draw machine and moving the device from zero/static to 1/2" closer to the riser to increase speed, the unit let loose, probably due to the camo finish becoming somewhat of a lubricant, and became a backward projectile. Had I been drawing the bow by hand, I would have been hit in the face.

Yes, your arrow speed will increase due to both DL and DW increasing, but the possible consequences of adding this product to your bow are NOT worth it.

IMPO, keep your money in your pocket.*


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## bosvaark

Len in Maryland said:


> *You don't hear from me that often, but this is a major safety issue that I felt should be addressed. Keep in mind that there was a lawsuit about 8 years ago about someone loosing an eye due to a cable guard letting loose.
> 
> Warranty issues with the bow manufacturers would definitely arise concerning this product. Just as with the case of roller guards, the limbs will be stressed more by adding this device. The manufacturers have to compensate the design of the limbs for roller guards and that design compensation is not projected using this product.
> 
> Any damage to the limbs might not occur immediately, but I wouldn't want to buy a used bow from someone who correctly or possibly incorrectly used this product. Keep in mind that they just attached it with little regard to calculated stress factors. Can you imagine someone really pushing that thing a couple inches towards the riser to increase speed even more? Talk about preload. Questions that didn't seem to be actively addressed or checked were draw weight after installation. How much preload can be used? Actual effect on draw length?
> 
> Now that I've discussed the potential damage to the bow, let me address personal injury. At full draw you'll have rear ward pressure on a carbon rod that is held in place by a couple of set screws or glue. This rod was never meant to take excessive pull force. Then you'll have to place a piece of metal to usually a carbon rod that is not meant to take this kind of pressure generated by the set screws. This can easily create cracks in the carbon slide causing even more problems.
> 
> Depending on how far this device mounted forward, and depending on the bow design, varying forces will be amplified over what is normal. When the bow is drawn the force trying to drive the slide rod backwards would be like an arrow headed straight for the shooters eye with most of today's bow designs.
> 
> These are questions/issues that, for the most part, I can check with instrumentation/tools that I have designed and have readily available.
> I had the parts available at the shop to make and duplicate this product.
> 
> I did some analyses on two different bow designs. Without getting into all the detail, which I'll make available to customers coming into the shop, this design is dangerous to both the bow and the shooter.
> 
> As others have suggested, DL and DW did increase depending on bow design. My testing was done using a bow set only at 60# and I'm glad I used some discretion. With it on my draw machine and moving the device from zero/static to 1/2" closer to the riser to increase speed, the unit let loose, probably due to the camo finish becoming somewhat of a lubricant, and became a backward projectile. Had I been drawing the bow by hand, I would have been hit in the face.
> 
> Yes, your arrow speed will increase due to both DL and DW increasing, but the possible consequences of adding this product to your bow are NOT worth it.
> 
> IMPO, keep your money in your pocket. *


Hi this is Bernard ,you have alot to say and you do not have 1 in hand ,Like to see what you will have to say when you get hold of 1:mg:


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## LEADWORKS

bosvaark said:


> Hi this is Bernard ,you have alot to say and you do not have 1 in hand ,Like to see what you will have to say when you get hold of 1:mg:


You can see exactly what it is and how it works in the videos. Anyone with any sense at all would see that it is dangerous junk.


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## wis_archer

bosvaark said:


> Hi this is Bernard ,you have alot to say and you do not have 1 in hand ,Like to see what you will have to say when you get hold of 1:mg:


If you knew a product was dangerous, why would you try it?!


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## LEADWORKS

the only way to make this product even remotely safe is to make it a complete replacement of the cable rod. Make it so that it has it's own steel rod (all one piece) that goes through the rod hole in the riser and has a flange or something on the end of it to keep it from pulling through the riser. Or look at the way Mathews' roller guard is connected to the riser and see how they attach it securely and safely. Set screws to a carbon rod with that much force on it is just dumb.


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## jwamp82

*Possibility??*

I'm not an engineer or even close to anything like that, but what if you put the rollers on some type of spring that allowed the cables to come to normal position then upon release sprung them forward. Would that work? I'm sure this would still put alot of stress on limbs and cable guard, but just a thought. Any smart people out there have an opinion????


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## bobbyg

20 Years ago gimmicks like this had a chance on making some serious money, it would take 5 years for the product to be found out its total junk. But now with the internet, it can be your best friend or worst enemy. Feel bad for the first person that actual buys this thing wrenches it down to their cable guard and the cable guard pulls out at full draw. what are they going to do put a warning on the product that if used improperly it could injure or kill? that warning wouldn't save you in court.

you can bet after the first injury the bowturbos phone number will be disconnected and all the snake salesman will be moving on to the next gimmick.


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## Pearsonguy305

*whoaaaaaaa*

wait a minute, short bus? I dont think so, what i was sayin was i see it ezsist, but this idea has been aroudn for years, and to remind folks the roller gaurd was HCA patent long before mathews ever was in pitcure, and also Richard at pearson as already had simular design, and once again not a product id want on my bows, but some clowns would buy them, only to void warranty on bows. I can see why you moved on, which im glad as you and i bernard, we wouldnt get along at all. I see from the video your a hot shot shooter, really now, id stick to shooting then, when these things hurt someone hope you paid your ins up to date.Can you say lawsuit when this thing blows up. 
I cant tell if you got off the short bus or are you still on it.enough said.......


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## Mink

With my APA set at 62 lbs at full draw it takes 45lbs of pressure to push the cables back to the static position. That's 45lbs of force trying to pull that rod out of the riser. I'm going to have to test and see what that weight would increase to by forcing the cables back past static towards the riser.


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## tmolina

*ttt*

This things going down hill fast!:behindsof


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## wis_archer

That's what happens when a product gets hyped up and then is discovered to be dangerous and I hope it goes down the drain before someone gets hurt.


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## Rattleman

I just saw the video. Only question that i have is what hapens IF the cable guard pulls out of the riser. What happens to the shooter. Another question....Is this not the same principle that Mathews had on their roller guards. Same as the Bowtechs.. Just a queary.


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## Rattleman

Len in Maryland said:


> *You don't hear from me that often, but this is a major safety issue that I felt should be addressed. Keep in mind that there was a lawsuit about 8 years ago about someone loosing an eye due to a cable guard letting loose.
> 
> Warranty issues with the bow manufacturers would definitely arise concerning this product. Just as with the case of roller guards, the limbs will be stressed more by adding this device. The manufacturers have to compensate the design of the limbs for roller guards and that design compensation is not projected using this product.
> 
> Any damage to the limbs might not occur immediately, but I wouldn't want to buy a used bow from someone who correctly or possibly incorrectly used this product. Keep in mind that they just attached it with little regard to calculated stress factors. Can you imagine someone really pushing that thing a couple inches towards the riser to increase speed even more? Talk about preload. Questions that didn't seem to be actively addressed or checked were draw weight after installation. How much preload can be used? Actual effect on draw length?
> 
> Now that I've discussed the potential damage to the bow, let me address personal injury. At full draw you'll have rear ward pressure on a carbon rod that is held in place by a couple of set screws or glue. This rod was never meant to take excessive pull force. Then you'll have to place a piece of metal to usually a carbon rod that is not meant to take this kind of pressure generated by the set screws. This can easily create cracks in the carbon slide causing even more problems.
> 
> Depending on how far this device mounted forward, and depending on the bow design, varying forces will be amplified over what is normal. When the bow is drawn the force trying to drive the slide rod backwards would be like an arrow headed straight for the shooters eye with most of today's bow designs.
> 
> These are questions/issues that, for the most part, I can check with instrumentation/tools that I have designed and have readily available.
> I had the parts available at the shop to make and duplicate this product.
> 
> I did some analyses on two different bow designs. Without getting into all the detail, which I'll make available to customers coming into the shop, this design is dangerous to both the bow and the shooter.
> 
> As others have suggested, DL and DW did increase depending on bow design. My testing was done using a bow set only at 60# and I'm glad I used some discretion. With it on my draw machine and moving the device from zero/static to 1/2" closer to the riser to increase speed, the unit let loose, probably due to the camo finish becoming somewhat of a lubricant, and became a backward projectile. Had I been drawing the bow by hand, I would have been hit in the face.
> 
> Yes, your arrow speed will increase due to both DL and DW increasing, but the possible consequences of adding this product to your bow are NOT worth it.
> 
> IMPO, keep your money in your pocket. *


I just went back thru the last couple of pages and found this from Len. My point exactly. Be very careful. You only get one set of eyes.


----------



## The Arrow Guru

*uuhhhhhh, this thread just makes me tired*

Couple of tourches and a few pitch forks and we would have a mob, lookin' for some witched to burn. Lol
I have tried to post results that I have seen with my own eyes, only to be told I'm wrong. There will be more published data based on real world tests that have and are being done. Please look at these and decide if the Bow Turbow is or is not for you. There seems þo be a lot of info coming from some who have not seen it, used it, or have any basis to judge it. 
I'm asking that no one qoute me and give me their parting shot, and tell me I'm wrong or what ever. Just trying to have people give it a fair chance. If you have already made your mind up, thats fine and I really do not have any fault with some one who even at this point thinks that they would rather not try one. But it seems a select few almost have an agenda, or have a vested interest in the failure of the Bow Turbo. I just do not get it sometimes. 
Actual consructive critizism and concerns are welcome. It gives the guys a "path" to follow in order to give the customer confidence in using the Bow Turbo. However there are some here who have gone beyond that.
The guys who developed the Bow Turbow are good people and deserve a fair look. They will continue to try to answer all questions and concerns about their product, give them a chance to do that. I do not think that is unreasonable to ask.


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## alligood729

bigrnyrs said:


> Couple of tourches and a few pitch forks and we would have a mob, lookin' for some witched to burn. Lol
> I have tried to post results that I have seen with my own eyes, only to be told I'm wrong. There will be more published data based on real world tests that have and are being done. Please look at these and decide if the Bow Turbow is or is not for you. There seems þo be a lot of info coming from some who have not seen it, used it, or have any basis to judge it.
> I'm asking that no one qoute me and give me their parting shot, and tell me I'm wrong or what ever. Just trying to have people give it a fair chance. If you have already made your mind up, thats fine and I really do not have any fault with some one who even at this point thinks that they would rather not try one. But it seems a select few almost have an agenda, or have a vested interest in the failure of the Bow Turbo. I just do not get it sometimes.
> Actual consructive critizism and concerns are welcome. It gives the guys a "path" to follow in order to give the customer confidence in using the Bow Turbo. However there are some here who have gone beyond that.
> The guys who developed the Bow Turbow are good people and deserve a fair look. They will continue to try to answer all questions and concerns about their product, give them a chance to do that. I do not think that is unreasonable to ask.


Thank you Byron. Steve and Bernard are both well grounded, level headed people, who are NOT trying to "make a fast buck". They have a product, that while maybe not necessarily "revolutionary" in thought, is a little different in design. The Newberry design from Richard looks to be well thought out too, but this is still a little different. If you don't have one in hand, there is absolutely no way to know that. The post from Len raises some good points, that are in and of themselves good ones, tho again, without one in hand, the design can't be tested to his or anyone's satisfaction. His post was appreciated, even tho a little on the negative side. Some of the rest of the naysayers, I agree, seem to have an agenda for some reason or another.

I've said this a couple of times before. I'm just an average shooter/hunter that has seen it work, and am lucky enough to have one, even tho it is just a proto type. I understand how a bow works, but am not an engineer or a bow technician. Was I a little overly enthusiastic about the Turbow?? You bet I was! Did I start the buzz a little to pre-maturely?? Maybe I did. I was asked to do exactly what I did, nothing more. I feel that I have caused undue pressure to be placed on my friends, and for that I humbly apologize. If I have broken any rules here on AT, I apologize for that as well. When I posted the thread a couple of weeks ago, I had no clue that a product similar to ours even existed. The word "infringement" has been mentioned in one post. There is no infringement with our product, the concept is similar, the design is not. Steve and Bernard are both hard working, honest people, and are not out to screw anyone. BUT, you keep an eye out for this thing, it really does work!

So, with all that being said, in order to keep my friends from coming under more unnecessary attacks and uninformed judgements on their product, I'm closing this thread. I have enjoyed the comments and the tons of pms I've received. If anyone thinks I did it for the attention, you are sadly mistaken. I have a wife and 3 kids, I get all the attention I'll ever need!! All the support is greatly appreciated, and I can't express it enough. All I ask is that everyone understands where I was coming from at the start. After I close the thread, I'm sure I'll take a hit from somewhere. Guess what?? I don't care! I'm 47 yrs old, and have learned a little along the way. Here's two of those things:
"It ain't what you know, it's who you know!"
"You can satisfy some people all the time, and all the people some of the time, but you'll never make all the people happy all the time!!!

Thank you, David Alligood


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## Len in Maryland

*Cable guards coming loose*

*Dave:

This one statement could cause your friends a lot of trouble/expense:



Keep in mind that there was a lawsuit about 8 years ago about someone loosing an eye due to a cable guard letting loose.

Click to expand...

The fact that the transfer from pull poundage to letoff translates into about twice the pulling poundage on the cables in the normal condition can only be amplified if the installation advances towards the riser. Also, during the shooting of thousands of shots set screws can vibrate loose and glues holding cable guards can break down. Several weeks ago I had to glue in a cable guard that had not been properly installed by a manufacturer.

I would strongly advise your friends to reconsider releasing this product to the general public. Just one lawsuit could cost your friends dearly.

Hope this helps,

Len*


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## danslaugenhoup

*Safety Rope*

I think a simple saftey rope could be attached to the riser and then secured thru the turbo. You could use d-loop material. I think that would go a long way in my mind. I would feel much safer. Just a thought. Don't let all the negatives get you down. Keep working. I also like the fact that you don't have to worry about you cable rod freezing up while on stand. That has happened to me on some frosty mornings.
Good Luck


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## Jeff K in IL

bosvaark said:


> Hi this is Bernard ,you have alot to say and you do not have 1 in hand ,Like to see what you will have to say when you get hold of 1:mg:


Sorry Bernard, but Len is right.


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## GIG

bigrnyrs said:


> Couple of tourches and a few pitch forks and we would have a mob, lookin' for some witched to burn. Lol
> I have tried to post results that I have seen with my own eyes, only to be told I'm wrong. There will be more published data based on real world tests that have and are being done. Please look at these and decide if the Bow Turbow is or is not for you. There seems þo be a lot of info coming from some who have not seen it, used it, or have any basis to judge it.
> I'm asking that no one qoute me and give me their parting shot, and tell me I'm wrong or what ever. Just trying to have people give it a fair chance. If you have already made your mind up, thats fine and I really do not have any fault with some one who even at this point thinks that they would rather not try one. But it seems a select few almost have an agenda, or have a vested interest in the failure of the Bow Turbo. I just do not get it sometimes.
> Actual consructive critizism and concerns are welcome. It gives the guys a "path" to follow in order to give the customer confidence in using the Bow Turbo. However there are some here who have gone beyond that.
> The guys who developed the Bow Turbow are good people and deserve a fair look. They will continue to try to answer all questions and concerns about their product, give them a chance to do that. I do not think that is unreasonable to ask.


Can they show us a force draw map with and with out so we can see whats going on?


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## plottman

Rattleman said:


> I just saw the video. Only question that i have is what hapens IF the cable guard pulls out of the riser. What happens to the shooter. Another question....Is this not the same principle that Mathews had on their roller guards. Same as the Bowtechs.. Just a queary.


If mathews or bowtech shortened their roller guards 3-4 inches without redesigning their cams, then it would be the same. However, it is not similar at all. The cams and limb deflections on bows with roller guards are designed to be used in conjunction. If you took a mathews bow and shorted the roller guard 4 inches then the draw weight would change, the draw length would change, and the bow would shoot faster. You would also probably break the limbs, change letoff, etc...


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## Barehunter

I'm mostly neutral on this device but have certainly enjoyed the show! I'm not claiming this as fact but just wonder if the safety issue is as big a deal as is perceived since the device is presumably trapped by the cables. It seems like the cable/string would have to break at the same time that the set screws gave way for it to reach your face. Probably would depend on where the cable guard is situated etc. In other words if it takes 45 pounds to push the cables toward the bow an inch when at full draw I would think that it would take a similar amount to push it toward your face (beyond static). I realize there is a momentum issue once it turns loose. Just thinking out loud.....


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## LeadSled1

There is nothing locking the device to the cable. The cables route over the front of the rollers and that is it. One of the big differences between this and the RCS which has been around for years.


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## curley30030x

Curious...How does this differ from the BOWTURBOW? Or is it the same?


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## Barehunter

LeadSled1 said:


> There is nothing locking the device to the cable. The cables route over the front of the rollers and that is it. One of the big differences between this and the RCS which has been around for years.


Ok...this is one of the problems with no decent pic. I was unable to tell this from the vids.


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## DeerslayinSOB

I myself think that they something here. I would like to see bow turbow offer a no questions asked money back guarantee. Then I think they would see a lot more people willing to give it a shot. If it works you will see people on here claiming that it the best thing since slick tricks or rage because we already know that they the best thing to ever happen to broadheads. 

*So here is the question Will you offer a no questions asked money back guarantee that this product is going to do everything that has been stated without changing the draw length*? I know that it will change the draw and holding weight by about 2 pounds so I will not ask that.


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## RamRock

they actualy do offer a moneyback gt


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## DeerslayinSOB

I am sorry you are right RR they do offer a money back guarantee so why is everyone making such a big stink out of this. Try it and if you don't like it return it. I have 2 x-forces so my cable guard is set with a screw so I wont have the issues some other bows have. So I am going to try it and see what all the hype is about. It could be a waste of $60 bucks but I have spend more money for a good night out and all that got me was a hang-over.


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## whitewater00

Do I get my money back if the medics have to cut it out of my eye-socket?

Some cable rods are simply glued in place and not meant to take any load, sounds like this could be dangerous.


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## jersey bob

*A business person's perspective.*

I haven't seen this thing, I don't have a horse in this race, but from my business experience: Get the idea safeguarded (patent pending, at least), and LICENSE it to manufacturers. 

They can do the engineering, figure out where the problems are, and take the liability on the stresses that this can cause. 

Meanwhile, your royalty is probably about what you'd clear making and shipping them yourself, and taking the liability.

That's how Allen milked the compound bow patent for nearly 20 years.

Good luck with it.


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## JUMPMAN

Closed as per thread sarters request.


----------

