# Target Bow questions



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't shoot with glasses, so I can't help you with that. However, with your Apex, I see a couple of things that you should work on:

1- You have way too much hand in the bow. The grip of the bow should be to the left of your lifeline and on the pad at the base of your thumb. It should also be turned out at about 45 degrees. You appear to be actually holding the bow. Don't do that. In a pressure situation, the tendency is to grip it tighter which will ruin your accuracy.
2- The DL on your Apex is a little short for you. If you add about 1/4" it will bring the peep closer to your eye and that may help your problem with the glasses, or not. But the added DL will help with your shoulders and alignment.

Download the "Nuts & Bolts of Archer". It's a sticky at the top of the general archery discussion forum. It has a lot more information on bow hand & alignment.

Hope this helps,
Allen
3- Try to get both of your shoulders down more.


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## Perentie (Jan 8, 2014)

I almost think the DL on the Apex is near a full inch or more too short. Yes, both your shoulders are riding high. 

Better to see with the cameraman/woman standing at the same level as you not the bow, and facing you directly (like both are on the same shooting line, and instead of a bow they have a camera 'filming' you). Arrow level for the pictures looks good. With a better picture folks will be able to help you a bit better. Need to be able to see head to toe, bow hand to back of release elbow.

Unless there is some medical reason take a look at the threads on here about form, See how folks look and the suggestions on how to fix it. Then the after shots when they made some changes. Without someone there directly to help you this is the best way, and have someone take pictures of yourself then go from there.


With the Apex you do not look comfortable at all. Allen is right about the grip as well, try for at most having the tip of the index finger 'just' resting on the front of the riser.

Are you using the same arrows in both pictures? If so looks like the DL difference between the two is very large. The reflex may even be an inch too long, hard to tell from a back shot.


Proper DL will help the most with being able to hold steady. You will also ALWAYS have the pin moving can never get rid of it. Remember to focus on the spot you want to hit, the pin should not really be a worry, almost 'ignore it'

Both pictures show the same grip. Want the knuckles to be near 45 degree angle not vertical.


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## willie14228 (Apr 14, 2014)

The reflex is 29 I don't have a draw stop pin on it the book shows that to be 29 with a 80% let off.
The apex has a 28.5 cam on it. I do feel a little short but the reflex I feel long that might actually stop if i put a stop peg in.
Does Mathews cams come in 1/4 measurements? 
Part of my uncomfortable issues is getting used to the weight I feel over balanced nose heavy and if i try to follow through as I do with the Hoyt the Mathews jumps forward or drops down if i put the stabilizer on.
Will be home this evening and will see if i can get some better pictures.
I really do appreciate the advice 
Ps yes I am using the same arrows carbon express whitetail cut at 30"


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The Apex is at least a full 1"-1 1/2" too short--you cannot rely on what's listed on the limbs especially is you bought the bow used (you do not know what the previous owner did to the bow). You should be able to dig your index finger knuckle of your release hand into that soft spot just under left ear lobe. 

These cams come in 1/2" increments, so the shop will probably have to do some twisting of your string and cable to get you dialed in--but your true DL is still in the stages of settling in as you become a better shot, so this will probably change again in a few months.

Also, 6x magnification is way too much for a beginner--you will see a LOT more pin movement and will find it much more difficult to establish trust in your natural float. 

The Mathews is a very top-heavy bow (top tends to drop back toward the shooter while the body of the bow jump forward) and a front stabalizer will eventually be a benefit, but get used to handling the increased overall mass weight of the bow before adding stabs and weights to prevent shoulder issues. 

As the others have already stated, fix your grip-- the grip of the bow should not touch the life-line in your pals and should lie about 1/2" to the left of it (toward your thumb) and your fingers should be gently curled and held at about a 45 degree angel to the riser--much like this 
View attachment 1943056


You've got a nice target set up there that I am sure will give you years of enjoyment. Congrats!!


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## Perentie (Jan 8, 2014)

Yea looks like a 2-3 inch difference between the bow DL. Better pictures will help a ton to be able to help you. 

I would almost say for a beginner to stick with a single bow and work from there. Easier to dial in form for a single bow, then once you have a better idea what it should be getting the second bow to fit you becomes easier. Plus going from one bow to the other constantly gives a completely different feel , like you have stated. Put one on the back burner for now. Allow yourself to get properly set up with one, and get to a decent shooting form and accuracy with one before picking up the other. The 'feel' difference when shooting both in the beginning hurt as well.

Personally I would pick the Apex to work off of to start. Both will probably require Cam changes to get the bows to properly fit you. 

Never trust what the cams/modules say what the DL is. Are methods for measuring accurately what the actual DL is. (easiest is a Draw board, are other methods that do not require one, hopefully someone can chime in what those are)

To get a good 'starting point' for your Draw length read the following thread. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=453837 this will get you close. Then once it is set 'close' can refine from there. 

Do you have a good bow shop close by with someone to help with proper setup? This will include setting the right DL and Peep height (this will help with your head leaning into the string) 

Lets worry about that after some better pictures, to give you the most information you can before going to a shop and spending the coin on different cams.


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## willie14228 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks guys will work on form


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## Perentie (Jan 8, 2014)

That is nice grouping. 20y? Fixing the form will make it easier and more consistent to be able to do that, and at longer ranges. Also will probably be more comfortable doing it. If that is a typical grouping, then are already consistent with what you are doing. Incorporating the changes and making it consistent will be easy it looks like.


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## willie14228 (Apr 14, 2014)

Yes 20yd


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

astigmatism? there are only a few ways to deal with this.
1. get surgery to have it fixed
2. get corrective lenses to have this fixed- contacts or Get a set of archery specific glasses that are ground for how you want to see through them.
3. shoot with the eye that doesn't have the astigmatism

tape may help. If got an astigmatism is my non shooting eye- I can pull on my eyelid and put pressure on the eye and clear up that vision issue--I can put a piece of tape across my eyebrow- pulling the eye lid and hold it in place....I did this when getting my glasses made...made the doctors job easier on making glasses (just standard, not archery specific)


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## willie14228 (Apr 14, 2014)

Well yesterday I learned the true value of a pro shop compared to going to Academy or Gander Mountain, 
Bryan over at On Target Archery spent an hour or more working with me and my bow. The draw length was ok, my bow is actually a 29 inch it was just the way I was holding it... I do have some defense, the Hoyt has rubber grips that actually encourages a full hand grip. I may take them off will have to look and see. 
Whatever the case I found my bow shop. 
Now.......... if I can GET ON TARGET
lol
Thank you all for helping and good advice


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