# Hoyt Bottom cam lean VS Tuning



## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

I have a Hoyt Podium X Spiral Pro and When tuning it, I noticed that It likes having a top cam lean (bottom of the cam pointing at the cable guard).
I also noticed that the bottom cam had a similar lean (top of the cam pointing at the cable guard),picture below.

From your experience, 2 questions:

Is it because of the bottom cam lean that it likes having the top cam to lean as well?
If I correct the bottom cam lean (play with cam spacers), should it make it liking the top cam straighter? ... And makes everything a better setup?
Would you recommend leaving it as is?
Notes:
I went thru swapping limbs and tuning the cable guard, nothing seemed to work. I also made extensive work on my bow hand and grip position and it should be good..
I get a slight left tear on bareshaft paper, and I find that my center shot is a little too inside (to the burger button) than I would like it to be usually on a hoyt.
But the bow is shooting very well, althought a bit unforgiving.

Thanks!

_bottom cam lean picture:_


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

You are WAY over-thinking this. TUNE based on shooting results, not what looks symmetrical.
D-loop is not in the center of the bowstring, d-loop is CLOSER to the top cam. So, any cam shimming, any YOKE tuning, on the top axle, will have a medium size effect on correcting paper tuning lateral (sideways tears)....will have a MEDIUM size effect on fixing bareshafts missing right of the fletched group (same as a left nock paper tear).

The bottom cam is farther away from the d-loop. So, cam shimming on the bottom axle, will have a SMALLER effect on fixing lateral paper tears.

Shim the top cam, work the yoke legs, to get the MEDIUM size correction first. Get the tear as small as you can, by yoke tuning the top axle, by cam shimming the top axle. Then, if you don't have a shim THIN enough to really dial in the fix for the left tear,

NOW, you shim the bottom cam, for a FINE adjustment, to kill the left tear.


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> You are WAY over-thinking this. TUNE based on shooting results, not what looks symmetrical.
> D-loop is not in the center of the bowstring, d-loop is CLOSER to the top cam. So, any cam shimming, any YOKE tuning, on the top axle, will have a medium size effect on correcting paper tuning lateral (sideways tears)....will have a MEDIUM size effect on fixing bareshafts missing right of the fletched group (same as a left nock paper tear).
> 
> The bottom cam is farther away from the d-loop. So, cam shimming on the bottom axle, will have a SMALLER effect on fixing lateral paper tears.
> ...


That's what I mean, I am NOW at that FINE adjustment part...


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Mathieu_Dionne said:


> That's what I mean, I am NOW at that FINE adjustment part...


1) post a pic of the top cam lean, like this.



Pinch an arrow on the left side of the top cam, if a RH bow.
Adjust yoke legs so the arrow does THIS.



If the arrow point is beyond the right edge of the bowstring, reduce cam lean to this much.

2) reset arrow rest centershot to 13/16ths inch.

3) now fire through a paper tuner and show a picture of the paper tear. Want to see the size of the left paper tear, with 13/16ths arrow rest centershot, and with minimal PRE-LEAN.

4) post a photo of your form, at full draw, dead level arrow, wearing shoes, head to toe photo.

You are not at the FINE adjustment point, cuz you have not mentioned one more adjustment to fix the left tear that will not go away.


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> 1) post a pic of the top cam lean, like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks will get back to you


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## Robspartacus (Feb 20, 2017)

You will have lean on top and bottom. Thats normal. My Invicta SVX 37 is the same. Shoots phenomenal. Personally, I would not shim. Leave cams where they are. Use yoke to clean up tears. Set arrow dead straight down the middle. Ive set up several Prevails and a couple Invictas. Don't worry about lean. Make everything based on results, not how vertical cams are. 

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

Robspartacus said:


> You will have lean on top and bottom. Thats normal. My Invicta SVX 37 is the same. Shoots phenomenal. Personally, I would not shim. Leave cams where they are. Use yoke to clean up tears. Set arrow dead straight down the middle. Ive set up several Prevails and a couple Invictas. Don't worry about lean. Make everything based on results, not how vertical cams are.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> 1) post a pic of the top cam lean, like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi,

See pictures below as requested.
As per for my form, I just went thru this with experienced team of coaches. Not saying that I am perfect, just saying that I know when I have a bad shot  .

As you can see, the top cam lean doesn't look too bad, but I find the bottom cam lean a bit bad (you tell me?).

I found out that my rest was a bit more outside of the 13/16'' that I thought, probably around 27/32'', (I got a proper ruler and found that).
Then I put it back to 13/16''.
I was still having a left tear (on only one arrow, the #2) but I realized it was probably caused by improper dynamic spine tuning, I turned the nock 90* CW and I started shooting bulletholes with both of the bareshafts.
It also seemed that correcting the up/down adjustment also made it easier to correct the left-right.
Looking forward for the storm to end to go shoot some bareshafts down range and check with walk back.

Information:
Fletched arrow was doing bullet holes during all that time.
Bareshaft paper shot at 5 yards.
Fletched paper shot at both 1 yard and 5 yards (not shown below).

Thanks!


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

Well, I messed up while writing on the paper (sorry): 

I wrote 28/32'' and is should be 27/32''
I wrote "lowered the arrow rest" but I raised it.

Sorry.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Shoot three fletched and two bareshafts at 20 yards (18 meters) and take a photo of all five arrows in the same target, all five arrows aimed at the same bullseye.

What does the "experienced team of coaches" say about the bottom cam lean?
Still want to see that form photo.

If you cam shim the BOTTOM axle, to fix a left tear, you need to shove the bottom cam more to the LEFT, and that will INCREASE your bottom cam lean...so still need to see that form photo. Cam shimming the bottom cam to fix your left tear is not the answer.

If you are getting tears like that at only 5 yards, then, REALLY need to see what two bareshafts do, at 20 yards (18 meters). Why two bareshafts? That will tell me your ACTUAL consistency, and comparing the point of impact for two bareshafts versus a group of three fletched arrows, will tell me MUCH more than just a tear or two at 1 yard and 5 yards.


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> Shoot three fletched and two bareshafts at 20 yards (18 meters) and take a photo of all five arrows in the same target, all five arrows aimed at the same bullseye.
> 
> What does the "experienced team of coaches" say about the bottom cam lean?
> Still want to see that form photo.
> ...


I did it yesterday (no pictures):
Bareshafts at 18 meters are kissing the fletched one in a larger group, bareshaft groups 2.5" diameter, fletched groups 1" diameter.
When I do it at 30 meters, the bareshaft group center is about 3" lower and 3" to he right than the fletched group, bareshaft groups 6" diameter, fletched groups 2,5" diameter.


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

Thanks everyone @Robspartacus and @nuts&bolts for your advices.
I'll tolerate that lean on the cam since it seem to perform well this way.
I'll just have to tell myself that it can shoot straight even with leaning cams, It actually proves it at the moment.
Cheers,


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Mathieu_Dionne said:


> I did it yesterday (no pictures):
> Bareshafts at 18 meters are kissing the fletched one in a larger group, bareshaft groups 2.5" diameter, fletched groups 1" diameter.
> When I do it at 30 meters, the bareshaft group center is about 3" lower and 3" to he right than the fletched group, bareshaft groups 6" diameter, fletched groups 2,5" diameter.


The bareshafts should hit INSIDE the fletched group.
Do it again and take a photo. The angle of penetration for the bareshafts will tell LOTS of information.
Still surprised that your group of "experienced coaches" did not get you farther in your tuning.

20 yards, 18 meters.







Your bow is not tuned, and your form needs more work.


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## Mathieu_Dionne (Feb 2, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> The bareshafts should hit INSIDE the fletched group.
> Do it again and take a photo. The angle of penetration for the bareshafts will tell LOTS of information.
> Still surprised that your group of "experienced coaches" did not get you farther in your tuning.
> 
> ...



Here is 18m, still some sight adjustment to be done:
I shot the fletched on the 3 upper spots and bare shafts on the 3 lower:









Here is 30m, I shot all arrows at the middle spot:
Notice the bare shaft impact pattern, very large.









I should also mention that I am shooting Easton Superdrive23 / cut at 27'' carbon-to-carbon / total arrow weight is 350gr / 5.3 gr per pound setup @ 66 lbs DW / 100gr. point and a very low FOC of 7.3%. I am waiting the 120gr. points to arrive in the mail.


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