# why nock point high?



## wango tango

I see lots have their nock point set 1/8" high, 1/16" high etc. Why is this?


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## SonnyThomas

For various reasons the nock can be high - should never be low. Cams with uneven nock travel, timing, and some perfer nock high to make the arrow correct itself the same way every time. A big majority of today's bows have fairly flat nock travel and nock can be set to zero.


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## wango tango

any more explanations? also, why do fobs like a more level nock height?


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## edthearcher

*nock high*

1/8th or 1/4 high. if you look at it. the diameter if an arrow. from the center of the nock to the out side of the nock is how far??? 1/8th of an inch roughly. so by placeing your nock point a little high you are pushing from the center of the arrow


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## bfisher

edthearcher said:


> 1/8th or 1/4 high. if you look at it. the diameter if an arrow. from the center of the nock to the out side of the nock is how far??? 1/8th of an inch roughly. so by placeing your nock point a little high you are pushing from the center of the arrow


 This isn't a bad explanation. I would explain it just with more detail.

Whether you use a bow square or levels you are setting the arrow perpendicular to the string. This is just a starting place before tuning. Using a bow square, the bottom of the square sits on the rest and zero on the square is where the bottom of the arrow will be on the string. Most people put a nocking point or top knot of a loop at the top of the nock, which with most carbon arrows is slightly less than 9/32" above square. A bottom nocking point or bottom knot of a loop would be at the zero point of the bow square (theoretically). By having the top nocking point high all you are doing is compensating for the diameter of the arrow so the arrow is essentially perpendicular to the shaft.

The reason for a nock above the arrow is because if hooking a release directly to the string or using a rope release the pressure exerted on the nock is upward.


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## BarneySlayer

By these explanation of 'zero' vs. 'high', it would seem that an arrow, on the rest, square to the string would be considered 'high'. I always thought that having the arrow itself square to the string was itself zero. Am I mistaken?


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## edthearcher

*square*

o.k. lets start over again. place bow in a bow holder, level up the string useing a level. o.k. now place arrow on your rest. useing a level also setting on top of the arrow. move the nock of the arrow, up or down on the string untill this shows level. take a piese of serving thread and tie it above the nock useing what I call a figure 8 knot a granny on one side and another granny on the other side do this at least 8 or 9 times (they should be half grannys) than finish off with a full granny. now you have a tied in nock point, you can also do this with a brass nock. now at this point what do you consider the center. I would consider the center being the center of the arrow all the way through the nock. being this is what the string is pushing on. so now I ask again the distance between the center of the nock to the bottom of the nocking point is what??? 1/8 to 3/16 this is only your starting point. from there you must paper tune. to start your tweeking. than you must group tune to get every thing zeroed in:shade:


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## nflook765

edthearcher said:


> o.k. lets start over again. place bow in a bow holder, level up the string useing a level. o.k. now place arrow on your rest. useing a level also setting on top of the arrow. move the nock of the arrow, up or down on the string untill this shows level. take a piese of serving thread and tie it above the nock useing what I call a figure 8 knot a granny on one side and another granny on the other side do this at least 8 or 9 times (they should be half grannys) than finish off with a full granny. now you have a tied in nock point, you can also do this with a brass nock. now at this point what do you consider the center. I would consider the center being the center of the arrow all the way through the nock. being this is what the string is pushing on. so now I ask again the distance between the center of the nock to the bottom of the nocking point is what??? 1/8 to 3/16 this is only your starting point. from there you must paper tune. to start your tweeking. than you must group tune to get every thing zeroed in:shade:


Although I am somewhat new to tinkering and tuning, I believe this to be slightly misleading. You cannot solely rely on the rest. The actual reference is the berger hole. The rest can be an inch above or below the actual center of the bow. From my understanding. The arrow should be at a 90 degree angle with the string. When this is set, the center of the arrow should pass through the center to upper third of the berger hole. As usual, this is just a starting point and should be paper tuned from here.


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## SonnyThomas

You are not grasping the his meaning or aware of how to tune a bow. You move the rest to locate the arrow to the berger hole. It's a starting point, true enough, but paper tuning is the not final step of tuning a bow. Fact is, bows that shoot their best can have poor to terrible paper test results.


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## Ray.Klefstad

So, no one has answered the original posters question and just add confusion.

The answer is: some cams (mostly single cams) cause downward nock travel after release.

Setting the nocking point a little above level is compensating for this travel.

It has nothing to do with the thickness of the arrow.

If you had a binary cam bow which had no vertical nock travel, you would set the arrow perfectly level (or perpendicular to the string).

I have yet to see a bow that is properly tuned not shoot a perfect bullet hole through paper with a bare shaft (one without fletching).

If you are getting poor paper holes and you work to get the best out of your bow, you are just masking a deeper problem, such as idler wheel lean or cam lean.

Ray


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## wango tango

Ray.Klefstad said:


> So, no one has answered the original posters question and just add confusion.
> 
> The answer is: some cams (mostly single cams) cause downward nock travel after release.
> 
> Setting the nocking point a little above level is compensating for this travel.
> 
> It has nothing to do with the thickness of the arrow.
> 
> If you had a binary cam bow which had no vertical nock travel, you would set the arrow perfectly level (or perpendicular to the string).
> 
> I have yet to see a bow that is properly tuned not shoot a perfect bullet hole through paper with a bare shaft (one without fletching).
> 
> If you are getting poor paper holes and you work to get the best out of your bow, you are just masking a deeper problem, such as idler wheel lean or cam lean.
> 
> Ray


i have mostly bowtechs. does that mean i should set them level, and not 1/8 1/4 high?


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## SonnyThomas

Ray.Klefstad said:


> So, no one has answered the original posters question and just add confusion.
> Ray


Perhaps you should read again.


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## Ray.Klefstad

SonnyThomas said:


> Perhaps you should read again.


I read them all carefully the first time before I posted. And I just went back and re-read them all, including yours.

I stand by my answer.


To the OP, I would start your bow with an even nock when you do the static setup. Then start shooting a *bare shaft* through paper. The hole will tell you what you need to do. Make small adjustments, then shoot another hole. Keep at it and the bow will teach you what it likes.

Do not settle for anything but a perfect bullet hole.

Ray


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## FLDartonGuy

Ok just to clarify something for my simple mind. A couple of the responses were to set an arrow on the rest and then level it. The confusing part to me is that noone has said to where to start with the rest. I could in fact set the rest up 3/4 of an inch high of the berger hole, nock an arrow, then level it so that it is perfectly perpindicular to the string and would be nowhere close to where I need to start.

I am by no means an expert on the subject but it does seem to me that the answers a just a bit confusing.

I always start with a bare bow and a bow square. Using the bow square to find the center of the of the berger hole and put a mark on the string 1/16 to 1/8 high of that center mark. Then comes the rest. I use a Limbdriver so i set the spring tension, nock an arrow and place it on the rest in the up position and level it from there as well as set center shot. That is my starting point. Now it is off to shoot through paper and then walk back tune. 

Like Ray said, don't settle for anything less perfect hole through paper


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## Ray.Klefstad

FLDartonGuy said:


> The confusing part to me is that noone has said to where to start with the rest. I could in fact set the rest up 3/4 of an inch high of the berger hole, nock an arrow, then level it so that it is perfectly perpindicular to the string and would be nowhere close to where I need to start.


Hi FLDartonGuy.

Personally, I always start with my arrow centered next to the burger button (the hole the arrow rest attaches to). However, this isn't written in stone. You can put it a little higher or lower and you can still tune your bow. I suspect you will only have problems if you are far off this initial point.

SonyThomas was right in that the initial static setup gives starting points. You must shoot arrows to find out where everything should be relative to your initial settings.

Notice that if you shoot an arrow after initial setup and it is centered side-to-side, but it is shooting nock high. You can either raise your rest or lower your nocking point and either one will likely solve your problem. That is, unless you are over spined, then you might get a nagging vertical tear that you just can't correct with rest or nock adjustments.

Ray


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## SonnyThomas

wango tango said:


> *I see lots have their nock point set 1/8" high, 1/16" high etc. Why is this?*





SonnyThomas said:


> For various reasons the nock can be high - should never be low. *Cams with uneven nock travel, timing and some perfer nock high to make the arrow correct itself the same way every time. A big majority of today's bows have fairly flat nock travel and nock can be set to zero.*





Ray.Klefstad said:


> So, no one has answered the original posters question and just add confusion.
> Ray





Ray.Klefstad said:


> I read them all carefully the first time before I posted. And I just went back and re-read them all, including yours.
> I stand by my answer.
> Ray


You said it your way and I said it my way.


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## konrad

The instructions with my Spot Hogg Whammy state to set the rest height so when the prongs are held down, there is a eighth of an inch between the prongs and the shelf regardless of Berger hole relationship.

Then place the nock set so the center of the arrow is 1/16th to 1/8th inch high of center.

In my case, (a single cam) I have found that placing the nock set below the nock and tying the d-loop above the arrow nock and below the nock set give me a small amount of downward pressure on the rest and better groups at extended range (i.e. 40+ yards).

Oh, the right/left is set so a nocked arrow on the rest is in the same plane as my front stabilizer. It shoots perfect holes and my Magnus Stingers hit the same point as the combos.

The main idea is to push the shaft as straightly as possible (maximum energy transfer) while allowing for the imperfections in the design of man’s machinery. 

I think most folks refer to this as adjusting for “center shot”?


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## ia bhtr

_That is, unless you are over spined, then you might get a nagging vertical tear that you just can't correct with rest or nock adjustments_. ( per Ray )

This is the key when saying a perfect hole is where you need to be , if you have an under/over spine issue with your arrow of choice , the perfect hole may not be attainable , pull up John Dudleys web site and read his article on French Tuning , good article and he has a statement that I have found true and goes along with this thread , occasionally he has found that a perfect tear to be the ideal set up for his bow , most of the time not , unless spine is a " perfect " match to his set up


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## konrad

And here you have swerved into one of the nagging pet peeves of mine about some, by no means all, “Pro Shops”. They seem to give little or no consideration to correct arrow selection. They will happily sell a $1000 bow and another $500 worth of accessories. Then they will treat shaft selection as a secondary issue because it takes a little more effort to explain why the inexpensive carbon composite shaft may not be a “First Choice”. This is of course because everyone knows to be state of the art we should be shooting carbon composite shafts to the exclusion of everything else.

Say what you will about the use of alloy shafts. The wide variety of spine selection and well compiled datum make shaft selection spot-on every time when all of the other information is well documented. Straightness and spine control with alloys such as the Easton XX75 in the Camo Hunter (ugly but effective shaft) or the Platinum Plus are difficult to match in the carbon arena without spending twice the money. If the client does not have the finances after purchasing everything else, he can be lead into up-grading in the near future but have excellent results in short order by using a premium alloy shaft as an interim solution.

I tend to look at this in a firearms “tuning” light. The platform may be high dollar but if you aren’t feeding it a good diet, you will guarantee poor results, regardless of the work- arounds attempted in tuning...


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## RLtarget

In the old days before dropaways we would set up 1/8" to 1/4" high to help the arrow fletch end clear the rest. you do not want the arrow shaft riding the rest all the way out. If you want set it up at .00" to start with, but I would bet after all tuning is done you will in up at somewhere around 3/16". Start where you want and measure after tuning is complete. 
Answer is-----to clear the rest.

Ric


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## Spotshooter2

Ray.Klefstad , You may stand by your answer but SonnyThomas answered before you did. And I stand by this statement


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## westksbowhunter

My nock is set at 5/8---------on my recurve. I don't know where it is at on my Mathews but I would guess over 1/8. Who care anyway, set where she tunes the best.


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