# The Untunable Switchback



## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

I have a Switchback and it rips a perfect hole, my cousins on the other hand not so good. I worked a few bowshops for years I know what I am doing (I think) :wink: I can not paper tune his bow always nock low and left. We have tried EVERYTHING, I can't figure it out. A little help would be nice.


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## storyteller_usa (Mar 22, 2003)

A set of Bucknasty string and cable would give some you a advantage. I put a set on one that I could not tune with the factory set. Set the bow back to specs. and set the idler lean. Perfect bullet hole...
Just my 2 cents..
Worked for me..


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## Kenny Borel (Nov 27, 2002)

I got this off of another guy on here. Worked for me. Good Luck!!

First off, you should only take set-up measurements with the limbs bottomed out (max poundage).

You really need a bow press for this next stuff as most dealers probably aren't willing to do it. I use a Bowmaster press and it works great. You must always back your limbs out 7 turns before pressing the Switchback. 

Your cam must be set to the proper rotation (when the bow is at rest). There are two tiny holes in the Cobra cam. These must line up to be parallel to the string. This is very important. You can do this measurement however you want. I take a long straight edge and eyeball it to the center of the two holes in the cam, then I measure the distance from the straight edge to the string at the top and bottom of the bow. I add or subtract twists (or half twists) to the cable until this alignment is achieved. Mark the cam with a pencil on both sides of the limb, so you can use these marks as a future reference. Remember, after you make a change, you must crank up the limbs before taking measurements.

You'll then need to adjust the string length (and possibly cable length) to get 33" ATA on the right hand side of the bow (side away from arrow). (This is assuming you are right handed). You want this to be pretty much dead-on. This should also get you a brace height of 7" (from center of riser hole to back of string). When you add or subtract twists to the string, add the same number to both ends of the string. For example, if you need to add two twists, add one to one end of the string and one to the other.

You'll need to balance out the string and cable lengths to achieve 33" ATA and at the same time have the cam in alignment. Be patient. Again, the 7" brace should come right in on its own.

Forget about the tiller. It is not important on this bow. Just max out both limbs and back them off the same amount when adjusting for poundage.

Now you have to paper tune your bow. Your center shot should be somewhere near 13/16" (center of arrow to side of riser near the riser hole. If you have to stray from this more than 1/16, you need to adjust the idler wheel lean. Lots of guys are having "unfixable" left arrow tears because the cam lean is not set properly. Take an arrow (preferably carbon) and place it flush on the left side of your idler wheel (bow is not drawn). As a starting point, the field tip on the arrow should point near the center of the string at your nocking point (initial nocking point is set where arrow is perpendicular to string when arrow is on your rest). My arrow tip ended up being about 1/4 inch to the right of the string (looking from bow string to riser), but it may be different for each person. You adjust the wheel lean by twisting or untwisting the left side of the cable yoke (that's why you only measure ATA on the right side).

Looking from behind the string of a right hand bow - place the arrow on the left side (arrow rest side) of the idler. Top of idler will have a very slight lean to the left of centerline and bottom of idler will lean to the right.

To get rid of a left tail arrow you should twist the left side of the yoke, causing the top of the idler to lean to the left (can't really see the lean though).

After all of this is done, go back and make sure the ATA, brace height, and cam rotation are where they should be. 

This will take you a few days but the results are worth it. I had trouble with my string and/or cable stretching and I ended up doing all of this work numerous times until I replaced the string and cable with ones that didn't stretch! I spoke with Mathews about this and they insist that their Barracuda string doesn't stretch but that they've had problems with the cable stretching (different material than the string). If your string and cable should be broken-in at this point (say 50+ shots) but are still creeping, replace at least the cable with a VaporTrail or Winner's Choice cable.

Make sure you back off your limb pocket screws before changing bow poundage (makes the limb bolts easier to turn!).


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

I have checked cam timing, that is one of the first things I checked


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

I will try messing with it some more, thanks for the tips


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## bowhunter0916 (Apr 18, 2005)

*Its not the bow*

Its the string and cable. The cuda's SUCK!!! I spent countless hours trying to tune my bow after I broke in the string and cable with no luck. I bought a WC set and will never look back. Its a shame that you have to spend more money after buying a new bow, but I have advised everyone that I know to take the factory set off while they are new and sell them on ebay. Saves money toward a new set. 
I know that some folks are lucky enough for the factory set to work for them, but it seems that some of just cant get them to work. My best guess as to why this happens is that the string and cable stretch at different rates and do something with timing that cannot be caught by looking at the cam. If he cannot buy a new set, then take the cuda's off and measure both the cable and the string. Dont forget that they are measured with 100 lbs of tension. Best of luck and be sure to post back what you decide to do and how you did it.


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## Cibert (Mar 10, 2004)

*idlear lean*

I think idlear lean .


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## smokin'dually (Feb 27, 2004)

IF IT ISN'T STRINGS OR CABLES IT MAY BE A BENT RISER


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

He paid 700 for a new bare bow! Why can't a bow of this caliper and reputation put a decent string and cable on a 700 bow?


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## chris dove (Feb 2, 2006)

Rosses are less expensive and come with winner's choice strings.


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## cbd10pt (Jun 11, 2004)

There is nothing wrong w/the zebra twist string. Are you shooting w/ a tight wrist strap? Sometimes if your strap is tight this will can cause torque. Are his arrows under spined? Try it w/ a 75 grain tip and a few less pounds or try it w/ your arrows that you know are spined correctly. If your shooting a drop away your rest might be dropping to fast try lenghtening the cable slightly.does his bow try to fall back at rest a stabillizer may help its ok if it is ballanced wieght forward but if tey kick back after the shot it can cause bad arrow flight. Peace out and good luck


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## jamestheron (Sep 16, 2004)

cbd10pt said:


> There is nothing wrong w/the zebra twist string.


 get them strings and cables off that bow ukey: you don't have to spend a ton of money on winner choice if you don't want there are allot of good strings here you can get for a good price.


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## RICHFORESTCo (May 25, 2005)

*loop?*

I had one that I could not paper tune . I was shooting 27.5" without a string loop and could not get a good tear . I tried different arrows , releases, checked timing , made sure bow was in spec, and nothing worked. My dealer put a 27" cam and installed a string loop on the switchback and it shot bullet holes almost instantly. I don't know why ,but the switchback would not tune while not using a loop. Good luck

Rich Schaffer


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## RicknKansas (Jul 2, 2005)

Old thread but good info on Switchback:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=231723&highlight=ricknkansas


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## RonB (Dec 21, 2005)

My '05 Switchback shot perfect when it was new, and then it went "South". My dealer helped it some, but it just wouldn't shoot as good as it did "out of the box". A new set of Vapor Trails took care of the problem.
I didn't let my new '06 XT leave the shop until it had a set of Vapor Trails on it. I don't think much of the Barrcudas.:thumbs_do


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

The Zebra strings are junk!


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## harleyryder (May 2, 2005)

Ok just my 2 cents worth but I quit paper tuning years ago,I just felt it was way over rated and not worth the trouble. I'll bare shaft tune til I feel good then I use the walk back method. I mean how many of you have "paper tuned" a bow and then went out and changed it in the field using some other method ??? or made changes to your perfectly paper tuned bow so you could shoot broadheads. Yeah I know it works for some but for most it's a waste of good shooting time


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## Rabbit (Nov 27, 2003)

*SORRY...but I have to bash here.*

First, I have had several other Mathews in the past and still own an Outback...they ALL have shot very well. Now, with that said...the SB XT that my brother and a friend bought several weeks ago WOULD NOT PAPER TUNE NO MATER WHAT YOU DID OR WHO SHOT THEM. I did not even own one but it still frustrated the crap out of me and to make it worse, Mathews tried to say it was shooter form issues. Then proceeded to tell me how to adjust the idler lean to correct the problem. But, as I said above, now matter what you did it would sill not tune (long left tear). Adjusting the idler lean did help a little, but it visably leaned too much, to the point I thought it would soon wear out the serving.

The dealer did let both of them swap out their bows for new ones, but they still had the same problem. So...my brother found a dealer to trade up and my friend sold his to someone on ebay...maybe there form is better than ours .

Now, we all have Bowtechs and NO PROBLEMS PAPER TUNING. Broadheads group right with field points. Tribute and Allegance...super smooth, super fast and easy to set up...problem solved.:wink:


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## mtboho (Dec 13, 2004)

So I followed the tuning guide and noticed my cam leaned away from riser is that common? I only put twists in the cable not any in string..... Thanx Travis


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

I have absolutly ZERO trouble with my Outback or SB and the only real difference between mine and his is mine had a custom string and cable. I think his cuda is going to take a hike!


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## storyteller_usa (Mar 22, 2003)

Contact Bucknasty and tell him I sent you and he will fix you up on a set for the Switchback. 452X..


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## TWM (Mar 13, 2005)

CoolhandLuke said:


> He paid 700 for a new bare bow! Why can't a bow of this caliper and reputation put a decent string and cable on a 700 bow?


That is exactly the way i look at it too. We had a guy but a switchback xt from scheels and then bring it to my boss's shop to get it papertuned. Took them 8 hours to finally get it. We papertuned a new bowtech somethin(dont remember which one) in less than a half hour.


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

i got a mathews i got a muzzy zero effect on it perfect bullet hole first try ! took it off put a TT on it left tear ! for hours i screwed with it couldn't get the tear out ! put muzzy back on perfect hole .


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## possum (Feb 3, 2004)

Make sure the riser is not bent.


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## Josh Michaelis (Sep 16, 2004)

What Arrows? Poundage? Fletchings? Rest?

The cudas suck but I bet that is not it.


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

the 05 switchy i had wouldnt tune either didnt matter what i did,changed rests at least six differant spined arrows,change point weights on and on.crazy thing was the tear would barely change with each differant setup.new xt paper tuned fairly easy but my buddies is like my 05 and we have not really got it yet.


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## Duece Weaver (Jun 29, 2004)

*low left tear*

I have a apex 7 that has had the same problem, low left tear. I checked the specs, adjusted rest and nock height until I was about to go crazy. Determined not to be beat when I got home this evening I took the bow out and set my center shot by walk back tuning, I came Inside and and checked the Ideler for lean again and it showed it pointing just off the right edge of the string. I added 4 twist to the right side of the cable yoke and rechecked lean and it showed pointing to the left edge of string. Shot 3 arrows through the paper and Hallaluhua, Perfect Bullet Holes! May want to check lean again, Good Luck!


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## ButchrCrekHuntr (Mar 26, 2005)

There is so much crap in most of the above posts that I am not going to attempt to correct any of it. Most have concrete minds anyway--all mixed up and permanently set. 

You can take any Switchback or XT that is set to exact spec--ATA, cam rotation, wheel lean, and the centershot set anywhere from 10/16 to 13/16 and shoot a bullet hole at every setting just by slightly altering your grip. I have proven this to several people, with their bows, and they don't know what to say. Most people will say or try anything to keep from admitting that they have a torque issue; but if their bow is set to exact spec, 95 percent of the time that is exactly what it is--NOT Barracuda or Hybrid strings, bent risers, or anything else!

BowTech bows might well be easier to tune for some, and that is great. I could tell you what happened at a Sportsman's Hunting Show three weeks ago with BowTech, Hoyt, and Mathews; but you all would just call it bashing so will let it go.


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## Cibert (Mar 10, 2004)

*Idlear lean*

you can do and change as much as you want if the idlear is not straight you are wasting your time .


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

ButchrCrekHuntr said:


> There is so much crap in most of the above posts that I am not going to attempt to correct any of it. Most have concrete minds anyway--all mixed up and permanently set.
> 
> You can take any Switchback or XT that is set to exact spec--ATA, cam rotation, wheel lean, and the centershot set anywhere from 10/16 to 13/16 and shoot a bullet hole at every setting just by slightly altering your grip. I have proven this to several people, with their bows, and they don't know what to say. Most people will say or try anything to keep from admitting that they have a torque issue; but if their bow is set to exact spec, 95 percent of the time that is exactly what it is--NOT Barracuda or Hybrid strings, bent risers, or anything else!
> 
> BowTech bows might well be easier to tune for some, and that is great. I could tell you what happened at a Sportsman's Hunting Show three weeks ago with BowTech, Hoyt, and Mathews; but you all would just call it bashing so will let it go.


wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! gripped the bow every way from sunday on my 05 and it not only didnt help it it didnt even change the tear.


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

ttt


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## PaCritter (Nov 23, 2005)

dtrkyman said:


> wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! gripped the bow every way from sunday on my 05 and it not only didnt help it it didnt even change the tear.


Maybe other form issues?


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## A Mess (May 21, 2005)

Posted above.......

"There is so much crap in most of the above posts that I am not going to attempt to correct any of it. Most have concrete minds anyway--all mixed up and permanently set. 

You can take any Switchback or XT that is set to exact spec--ATA, cam rotation, wheel lean, and the centershot set anywhere from 10/16 to 13/16 and shoot a bullet hole at every setting just by slightly altering your grip. I have proven this to several people, with their bows, and they don't know what to say. Most people will say or try anything to keep from admitting that they have a torque issue; but if their bow is set to exact spec, 95 percent of the time that is exactly what it is--NOT Barracuda or Hybrid strings, bent risers, or anything else!"

I agree completely.


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## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

PaCritter said:


> Maybe other form issues?


if it was a form issue why dont it show up on any of the bows i own,im sure my form has plenty of room for improvement but does not seem to be the problem i had with the 05 switchy i had.


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

What kind of rest are you using?


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## StevieJAngler (Nov 7, 2005)

*rest*

im using a ripcord bow is 29"/70#


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## CoolhandLuke (Oct 30, 2005)

keepin' this up for others :wink:


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## rodney482 (Aug 31, 2004)

StevieJAngler said:


> im using a ripcord bow is 29"/70#


Try a non-fallaway rest.....I had the same problem with my new XT with a Trophy Taker. I tired everything, and I mean everything and it would not tune perfect, it shot good but not great(groups) I decided to remove the TT, I had a WB deluxe on the shelf so I put it on, set the center shot at 13/16. leveled the arrow right over the berger hole, first shot through paper was like a bullet. I shot several more from 3-7 yds and they were very acceptable. Now that the weather is nice and I have been shooting outside, I cant believe how well this bow shoots.

I was given the advise from a tech at Mathews, he said that fallaway rest do not support the arrow enough and that I should try a different type of rest. This has been a common problem with guys shooting arrows that are on the weak side(spine). Here is my set up,,,,Mathews XT, WB deluxe, 27 1/4 Easton Axis 340 with 3 blazers, 29" draw. Bow set at 68lbs, I have also cranked it down to 73 lbs and it shoots just as good. Good luck


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