# True pull thru release and limb stops



## Alabamadog (Mar 16, 2015)

Any tips or tricks? Have a limb stop bow coming.
Been on my back tension adventure for a little whole now. I'm using an Element. 
Thanks


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## Z3R0 (Nov 6, 2014)

I don't shoot it often but I have a Prime One MX with the limb stops on and shoot it with a Carter Evolution. My shot process with that is basically draw back, anchor, aim/settle, release safety, and slowly squeeze the shoulder blades. When I draw back I make sure I'm only fairly lightly pulling against the wall, so it doesn't shoot as soon as I let off the safety. I have the release set to break at about 4lbs heavier than my holding weight, which seems to work alright for me. Someone else I know has the release set to break a half pound above holding weight, which I think is way too close - too much chance of accidental shots as soon as you let off the safety.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Nope, nothing special required. Just pull through the shot the same way as you always do. You might have to adjust slightly how you prep your hold against the wall before releasing the safety, which may take a little while to get used to. A lot less movement is required against a hard wall, so it'll feel more "sensitive".
My experience anyway, so YMMV,

DM


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## Alabamadog (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks,
Will be transitioning from a c4 if the new bow works out.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

I find the Element works better with the limb stops on my Elite! Feels a little bit cleaner and consistent in the amount of pressure to make the shot.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

A hard wall does make it feel snappier, but, contrary to what you would think, a softer wall presents no problems. When I first shot my Tribute with it, that actually worried me in the beginning but it ended up giving no difficulties. The release still lets go at the exact poundage in any case, leaving it up to the bow to be consistent, which it will be....

DM


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## yeroc (Jan 11, 2007)

increase the holding weight.youll execute better with more holding weight.i like a little bit of a sponge feel so i use o rings


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

This is not theory like some of those who have offered their opinion above, this is experience, but it is only *my* experience, therefore this is not gospel but my experience only. 

I used to think I could pick up a bow and shoot it well out of the box, any bow. I was pretty accurate in that assessment. That changed when I switched to a limb stop bow a few months ago. 

My story, hopefully you can benefit from it. Not to say your experience will be the same;

I got a bow new in the box, it came with a 31" mod on it. I had been shooting around 29.5" with a string stop bow which was admittedly a little shorter than I typically shot but I was shooting phenomenally with it so that's where I left it. Back to the new bow, came in with 31" mods, I had the wrong mod kit for the cams I had so I finally just said what the heck and put a sight, d loop, peep, and bars on it. It was (what I thought) way too long but I just had to try this new bow. First five spot round out the box with a bow peaking at around 65# I shot a 300x55. This was the first day I shot the bow. Hmm. I (perceived) to shorten the draw length slightly by shortening the valley and shooting it with less let off. (Remember this for later.)

Ok, a few days later a bow with 30" mods came in, which should have been closer to my correct draw length. I did everything known to man to that bow trying to make it shoot. Went to an indoor shoot with it thinking that I could "make" it shoot when I had to. Wrong. Shot my worst two consecutive five spot rounds in probably, my life. Neither one was a 300 and low 50's high 40's x counts. I have forgotten the details, it's what I do. *ALL* of my troubles were centered around getting the release to fire, a Stan Shootoff using a firing process much like you would shoot a hinge. 

So move forward to the day after that indoor tournament. I came home, had no idea what I was going to do. So, I thought, it worked before, why not again? So I proceeded to put the 31" mods back on the bow and start tweaking. Bottom line, and to make a long story short, I ended up with the long mods on it at 31" and a valley that's about 1/2" long, maybe. The valley is so short that there are times I catch myself thinking I'm in the valley (almost at anchor) but I'm not really. I have put a few twists in the cables to get where I wanted but bottom line, that's where it shoots for me. The bow peaks at around 60# but I have no idea what I'm holding considering I'm pulling into the stops the way I do. 

I know a few other people who have set their bows up very similar to this and it seems to work for them as well. My (and their) experience only. Good luck.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Lazarus said:


> This is not theory like some of those who have offered their opinion above, this is experience, but it is only *my* experience


Is this experience you're relating here specifically with a tension-style release, though? Do you or did you shoot a tension-style full time with that bow and for how long? I don't believe the Stan Shootoff is a tension-style release, so want to assess if we're not just getting more "theory" rather than actual experience here. Please note that the OP is specifically interested in pull-through release aids in this case.

DM


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## Alabamadog (Mar 16, 2015)

I do however appreciate the gesture of giving me his experience altho not directly related .
I have a limbstop hunting bow (Phoenix ) that I can shoot very well with a thumb trigger. So I do know that most are shorter in draw or feel that way with a solid wall. My bow at the moment has no stops


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## Alabamadog (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm sure I'm over thinking haven test drove this bow with a thumb trigger


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Alabamadog said:


> I do however appreciate the gesture of giving me his experience altho not directly related .


I'm suspect his "theory" comment was slanted towards me, that poster has a "history" of following me around and nipping at me for some reason, so I doubt his intent leaned less towards actually being helpful. But good if it was helpful all the same.


> I have a limbstop hunting bow (Phoenix ) that I can shoot very well with a thumb trigger. So I do know that most are shorter in draw or feel that way with a solid wall. My bow at the moment has no stops


As I said, you'll notice very little difference in your execution with respect to the hardness of the wall, but still, by all means try it first without the limb stops. Trial-and-error is a good way to proceed anyway and you may find you prefer without rather than with. But it won't alter your shot, it'll just feel a little different. You'll pull through in the same way as normal...

DM


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## Alabamadog (Mar 16, 2015)

Cool, I only meant the c4 has no stops. Cable or limb


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Well, the difference between the walls on my Tribute and my Supra Max is probably more than the difference between the C4 and your upcoming bow, and I don't have to change anything in my shot when switching back and forth. Like I said earlier, there's just more motion as you "prep" your tension against the wall before releasing the safety and finally pulling into the wall, but that's pretty much it. But as always YMMV..

Basically, as long as the holding weight is the same, there should be no, or only very teeny, surprises....

DM


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Alabamadog said:


> I do however appreciate the gesture of giving me his experience altho not directly related .


Cool. The reason I replied was because I view "the release" as a technique, (that's just my view) not a mechanical contraption in the hand, because they can all be fired in similar fashions. :cheers: Hope you get it figured out.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Lazarus said:


> Cool. The reason I replied was because I view "the release" as a technique, (that's just my view) not a mechanical contraption in the hand, because they can all be fired in similar fashions.


But that doesn't render the other posts in this thread "theories"; in fact, they were made by shooters who _do_ actually shoot a tension-style and are familiar with the particular issues they present. You, OTOH, don't shoot one, to my knowledge, so your "theory" assessment of those others posts need not be taken seriously.

As always on the Internet, Caveat Emptor.

DM


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Bows with limb stops require a different technique for me to shoot my hinge. With spongy back walls all I had to do was pull through the shot. I got a bow with limb stops and the back wall just did not move. I changed my technique to preloading into the wall, then starting to relax my hand while continuing to pull into the wall. When the bow wont expand you can pull all you want and the hinge will not rotate unless you relax your hand.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I shot a hinge for a short while and that was my experience also with the smushy vs harder wall too. With a tension-style, though, I found I didn't need to change anything because there's no rotating the body or anything like that that you have to do to fire it. All you do is pull, which is about all my brain can handle anyway LOL. 

The strange claim earlier by the other poster is wrong, all releases are NOT fired the same way. A tension-style does require a different technique than other types...

DM


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

Lazarus said:


> Cool. The reason I replied was because I view "the release" as a technique, (that's just my view) not a mechanical contraption in the hand, because they can all be fired in similar fashions. :cheers: Hope you get it figured out.


I find the above to be true. Given that the bow fundamentals are proper, I find that I can shoot a hinge or a tension release using the same technique, whether there is one cable stop, two cable stops, one limb stop, two limb stops or one cable and one limb stop (OK DST). Differences come into play if the limb stops are used to set the draw length. Some use them that way, I didn't when I shot limb stop bows. 

The only bow I struggle to use the same technique on is my wife's bow with a 6lb holding weight - the tension release works fine, the hinge needs extra relaxation to break the shot.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Rick! said:


> I find the above to be true. Given that the bow fundamentals are proper, I find that I can shoot a hinge or a tension release using the same technique, whether there is one cable stop, two cable stops, one limb stop, two limb stops or one cable and one limb stop (OK DST). Differences come into play if the limb stops are used to set the draw length. Some use them that way, I didn't when I shot limb stop bows.
> 
> The only bow I struggle to use the same technique on is my wife's bow with a 6lb holding weight - the tension release works fine, the hinge needs extra relaxation to break the shot.


I found the same thing with the tension release. If you pull through and eliminate tension in your hand, it fires very much the same as other releases, with the same method. I think more often they are sought after by people that want to be able to yank it to fire, and from what I found, you get about the same results as you do trying to yank a hinge to fire it.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

cbrunson said:


> I found the same thing with the tension release. If you pull through and eliminate tension in your hand, it fires very much the same as other releases, with the same method.


It does offer the benefit of not requiring a relaxation technique in the hand to fire it, however. This is one of its advantages over the hinge, for example, which requires the development of a fine motor skill in hand manipulation, or some other technique to enable rotation of the release body. A tension-style does away with this, significantly reducing the mental load of pulling through the shot.



> I think more often they are sought after by people that want to be able to yank it to fire, and from what I found, you get about the same results as you do trying to yank a hinge to fire it.


I agree. The tension-style can be "punched" by just giving it a good hard yank, just like other release types.

DM


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

dmacey said:


> It does offer the benefit of not requiring a relaxation technique in the hand to fire it, however. This is one of its advantages over the hinge, for example, which requires the development of a fine motor skill in hand manipulation, or some other technique to enable rotation of the release body. A tension-style does away with this, significantly reducing the mental load of pulling through the shot.


There are significant issues with tension in the release hand unrelated to the style of the device that have nothing to do with the actuation. They are related to holding and follow through.

I think you'll find that as the reason most people don't view tension releases as advantageous in any way.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

cbrunson said:


> There are significant issues with tension in the release hand unrelated to the style of the device that have nothing to do with the actuation. They are related to holding and follow through.


True, but those associated with rotating the release body don't have to be learned with a tension-style. PS: and there are certain other skills that are mandatory with a tension-style that are optional with, say, the hinge release.



> I think you'll find that as the reason most people don't view tension releases as advantageous in any way.


No, that's not the reason. It's not an advantage if you have already mastered the skills associated with achieving a rotation of the handle required for the hinge (for example) and are otherwise comfortable with shooting it. Then the tension-style is superfluous almost, because of the other skills required to use a tension-style properly that aren't required with a hinge (such as consistent tension into the back wall). There's no benefit to going to that extra work if you can already use a hinge or thumb button. That's what usually sends shooters like myself to a tension style. Some, like me, simply can't multitask that skill with aiming and the result is anticipation of the release, target panic and so forth.

It's usually those who are either already good with a hinge or thumb button or have never really learned the correct use of a tension style release that make assertions like yours.

DM


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

I was talking about hand tension being a bad thing. The argument for it being acceptable with a tension release for the actuation of the release is irrelevant in the big picture.

Hand tension = bad

Maybe not as noticeable for those just starting to learn back tension, but definitely once you start to put together the finer elements of a good shot. 

But to return to the topic of the OP, yes the solid limb stops will have an effect on your release, even with a tension release. If you have a spongy wall on your current bow, you'll have some give that builds before the release breaks. That give has become normal in your feel of the shot. It will be much less with limb stops, thus leading to what Lazarus was saying above, and slightly lengthening your draw length to match the point where it breaks may be beneficial. Or you will just get used to the new feel of it after several hundred (or thousand) shots.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

cbrunson said:


> I was talking about hand tension being a bad thing. The argument for it being acceptable with a tension release for the actuation of the release is irrelevant in the big picture.
> 
> Hand tension = bad


Nobody said hand tension was acceptable with a tension-style release.

DM


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