# What would be the perfect specs for a finger bow



## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

What would be the perfect specs if you could build a new finger bow? Like brace height, deflex riser, cams or wheels, speed specs, Axle to Axle length. Post up and let's see what the finger world thinks. Like I said what would you build if you could, Dan


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

I see a lot of lookers, Cmon folks let's see what you folks think


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

You need to get the Hoyt boys on here, they'll go on about reflex and deflex and angle of dangle and such.

I have pretty much my perfect finger bow (two of them actually). I have yet to find a bow that suits me better than the Bowtech Constitution, although I will try a Contender when they arrive.

40" ATA, rock solid back wall, 300fps at 60lbs with a 31" DL, no vibration or hand shock and a nice slim grip 

How's that for starters?


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

Neil, Thanks for your input. A new bow company asked for my input and I told them I would get everyones input to try to compile a great new finger bow as many companies have wrote us off, Thanks again Dan


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## mikajay (Apr 15, 2009)

IMHO 38"with big cams would be the lenght for moderate two finger draws, no less than 7,5 brace, narrow grip, smoothish cams with clear walley but no drawstops.Threads for a small stab on the back of the riser.

r.mika


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

WOW!!!

I thought this was one of those 'what if' threads. 

In the light of what you've said, then it would very much depend what the use of the bow is, as we all know here, there is no universal fit for any archer let alone a finger shooter and those that shoot spots will want something different to those of us who shoot 3D and field.

As I said, my personal preference is for a bow around 40 to 42" ATA and I am a binary / hybrid cam fan. I use the hard backstop on my Constitution to pull against before I loose and this is VERY important to me, although I know others do not like it.

Velocity (speed) is also important, I am looking for 280 to 300 fps from 60 lbs, although I have a Bowman which is set to 67lbs, I prefer to pull a sensible poundage.

Another vital aspect is enough mounting holes and a large enough sight window to be able to set my sights properly. Bowtech have forgotten this and PSE have not. You only have to look at the Mojo and Moneymaker to see how it should be done.

Lots of modern bows have really nice slim grips, my Bowtech is great and the new Hoyt Maxxis I tried yesterday was also excellent. Or offer a couple of options, as Bowtech did a couple of years ago, where you could get a Shrewd grip fitted.

I don't mind what the limb configuration is, but at 60 lbs and 30.5" DL, my Mojo used to jump forward...NASTY. So as little shock as possible please. 

While we are on draw length, it MUST be capable of 30 to 32" DL. Last year, not only did Bowtech discontinue my lovely Constitution, it's replacement (The Brigadier) had a max DL of 30".NOT GOOD.

So, in summary: 40 to 42 ATA, capable of 300fps at 60lbs, hard backstop, sensible sight window with suitable range of sight mounts and a DL of up to 32".

Oh and it must look good to...and no camo oh and sprinkles and a cherry.

How that?


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

I'm pretty much on the same page as Neil...I have a 28"-ish draw length, and shoot with 2 fingers on the string...I am primarily a 3-D shooter, and all these things add up to my perfect Finger bow being different than what others need/want.....I see pretty much 3 "Schools" of Finger shooting....The Old Schoolers, that want long A-T-A, higher brace height, wheels or very soft camsm these archers are usually shooting Indoor Spots, and Field .....The New Schoolers, that shoot short A-T-A bows, with low brace heights, and aggressive cams, for speed...These archers are shooting primarily 3-D, and Hunting...Then the rest of "US" that are mid-way between the two, and shoot midway between the two styles, as far as bow design goes...Case in point, I shot very well (for Me) with a Katera XL...My Merlin XT is very similar, but is 2 inches longer, and has a semi-parallel limb design...Most of the Old Schoolers wouldnt want a 36" A-T-A bow...It suited me just fine for 3-D, and hunting.....To cut this short, heres what I would like, and this would be a 3-D/Hunting bow for Fingers...40"-43" A-T-A,, extra long, neutral, or slightly deflexed riser, short, highly stressed semi-parallel limbs, 7 1/2"-8" brace height , aggressive cams, but not crazy, and a bit of valley, but a solid back wall, with the option for a softer back wall....Shoot through riser, possibly, or at least a shoot through X-Cam (Martin/Barnsdale style) system...All of this, with a low wrist angle grip, very narrow, but with a side plate, or full grip option....Picture a Mathews APEX, with a shoot through riser, and around 40" A-T-A, but with Martin "Fury X", or Wedel X cams.....I'm also not opposed to a 38"-40" A-T-A Parallel limbed bow, either,,,,Something like a Katera XXL??....The PSE Moneymaker is a great bow, I love everything about it, but the cams....I had to buy one, sell it, and buy another one later to decide that I didnt like the draw cycle of the cams....L.O.L.....A Moneymaker with 2" longer riser , and little "Hatchet" cams on it would be great....Sorry so long, but thats my say on this.....Take Care!.......Jim


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

I prefer 3 fingers on the string and have a 30" DL, therefor I'd prefer something about 45" ATA. Not easy to find that without recurved type limbs. I'd love something about 45", long riser and straight limbs, cams, I don't really care if what kind, but want 50% letoff. Guess I'm an oddball.:darkbeer:


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## INABIL (Oct 22, 2007)

I think the Pro Tec w/ LX Pro limbs is the perfect fingers bow for me.
I've been waiting a long time looking for a used one with 50 to 60lbs. draw weight in camo and just found one.
I can shoot the bow alot more without my fingers getting wasted. I like the longer bows.


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

Well the 06 Caribou is fantastic for me, so just replicate that lol. Cam and a half tho, not accuwheel. And don't forget Realtree camo!


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

40" ATA
65% letoff
solid wall
8" brace height

for starters


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## biblethumpncop (May 14, 2004)

66" Sky Conquest (Earl Hoyt version) with carbon wood limbs. 8 3/4" BH 40lbs, pulling 52 lbs at 32" draw. ACC 3-49 arrows. Bear Weather rest, D97 string, stock grip. 

Close second: Hoyt provantage riser that has been warfed to accept the same limbs...

Those bows sound vagely familiar.... Hmmmmmm....


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## marcusjb (Jun 22, 2005)

Harperman said:


> To cut this short, heres what I would like, and this would be a 3-D/Hunting bow for Fingers...40"-43" A-T-A,, extra long, neutral, or slightly deflexed riser, short, highly stressed semi-parallel limbs, 7 1/2"-8" brace height , aggressive cams, but not crazy, and a bit of valley, but a solid back wall, with the option for a softer back wall....Shoot through riser, possibly, or at least a shoot through X-Cam (Martin/Barnsdale style) system...All of this, with a low wrist angle grip, very narrow, but with a side plate, or full grip option...Jim


I would go for those specs too, especially the ability to adjust the firmness of the back wall. The only thing I would change would be keeping the A-T-A in the 39 to 40 range.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

CutTheLoop said:


> 40" ATA
> 65% letoff
> solid wall
> 8" brace height
> ...


......CutTheLoop....Have You shot a PSE Moneymaker?...It's exactly those specs, and if You can get past the looks of the bow, You might find that it is a great shooting bow...Those specs are also pretty much available from Hoyt, as well, with the Pro Elite/XT-3000 limbs, and C-2, or Spirals, or the Vantage series...I figure that Your waiting on the 2010 Mathews line up though, huh?..I'm still believing that the longer A-T-A Monster is gonna happen....Take care.....Jim


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

> A Moneymaker with 2" longer riser , and little "Hatchet" cams on it would be great


Hatchet cams! Oh man I love hatchet cams, I had a CSS with them that was too short DL for me, so I gave it to a friend. That bow was fast, accurate and tough. I also have a Bowman Accu-Riser and the cams on that are basically hatchets. Easy to tune, easy to keep in tune and fast. 

If it wasn't for the trouble of importing I would try a Moneymaker, but I've spent too much time and money buying bows I don't like as much as the Connie, so I'm done with that for a while.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

NeilM said:


> Hatchet cams! Oh man I love hatchet cams, I had a CSS with them that was too short DL for me, so I gave it to a friend. That bow was fast, accurate and tough. I also have a Bowman Accu-Riser and the cams on that are basically hatchets. Easy to tune, easy to keep in tune and fast.
> 
> If it wasn't for the trouble of importing I would try a Moneymaker, but I've spent too much time and money buying bows I don't like as much as the Connie, so I'm done with that for a while.


.......Neil, You should have just long-strung that CSS...The thing is with a Hatchet cam, You can make some pretty wide draw length adjustments, just by messing with the length of the strings, and cam rotation...Martin's Fury cams are more or less a Hatchet cam, to my eyes, anyway...The Bowman Accu-Riser bows have Wedel cams, on them, right?...With the new bow string materials, I think that the bow Manf. should bring back Hatchet cams...The main problems with Hatchet cams was that the older FastFlight strings stretched too much, and keeping the cams in time, and rotation was a constant chore...Hatchet cams are also noisy!....But, for 3-D, I dont care if they are...Hatchet cams also seem to make a bow recoil a bit too much, but with most folks shooting a string stopper type device on the newer bows, that takes care of that issue....I timed a High Country "Machined Extreme" for a fella the other day...He had new strings made, and brought the bow in to be set up...I was the only one at the shop at that time that knew how to time a 2 cam bow!.L.O.L...Some of the later Hatchet cams had draw stop pegs on top and bottom cams, and could be shot with a hard, or soft back wall...The top limb blew on my old Revolution Triumph, or I would be shooting it...I could pull it through a clicker, with a soft back wall, or screw on the draw stops that I made at work, and have a hard back wall....Pretty easy bow to shoot well with Fingers, considering the A-T-A, and brace specs....I'd like to find some Revolution cams that are smaller than the ones that I have, and try them on a "FrankenBow"...Maybe We could start a petition, and try to get some of the Manf. to bring back Hatchet cams??....L.O.L.....Take care, Neil!.......Jim


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

Hey Jim, I was a long time Martin shooter and the Fury cams where my favourites.

My Accu-Riser is Pre-Wedel cams and has Hatchets with adjustable draw stops (as you describe). DL is supposed to be 28", but I can draw it to 29.5" with release or just over 30" with fingers and it is still as accurate as anything, and all with 26" arrows.

I don't think Hatchets hold up, speed or vibration wise with the modern fast cams, but you really know when you have loosed, because of the noise 

Ahhhh, nostalgia ain't what it used to be.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

Harperman said:


> ......CutTheLoop....Have You shot a PSE Moneymaker?...It's exactly those specs, and if You can get past the looks of the bow, You might find that it is a great shooting bow...Those specs are also pretty much available from Hoyt, as well, with the Pro Elite/XT-3000 limbs, and C-2, or Spirals, or the Vantage series...I figure that Your waiting on the 2010 Mathews line up though, huh?..I'm still believing that the longer A-T-A Monster is gonna happen....Take care.....Jim


I have it on good authority the 38-40" Monster is in the works.

And if having shot the regular Monster with fingers....:mg: I can't wait for the 40" version.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

CutTheLoop said:


> I have it on good authority the 38-40" Monster is in the works.
> 
> And if having shot the regular Monster with fingers....:mg: I can't wait for the 40" version.


Yep.......I heard that the longer A-T-A Monster was gonna happen, from a long time Mathews Pro Staffer...Not real sure what the A-T-A is gonna be, but it will be longer, none the less...When You get the longer Monster, PLEASE keep "US" informed of how it shoots....Take care.......Jim


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

Harperman said:


> Yep.......I heard that the longer A-T-A Monster was gonna happen, from a long time Mathews Pro Staffer...Not real sure what the A-T-A is gonna be, but it will be longer, none the less...When You get the longer Monster, PLEASE keep "US" informed of how it shoots....Take care.......Jim


Will do Jim, I just hope they can get them in the shops before too long into the 2010 3D season.


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## catkinson (Jul 17, 2007)

*Bowtech Constituion*

AS stated above -Love mine too ! Just wish it was 65% let off instead of 80-[maybe there is a way to change that??] 
I once shot a Reflex caribou and loved it wish I had bought it until I met the *Contituion, it set me free!*


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

catkinson said:


> AS stated above -Love mine too ! Just wish it was 65% let off instead of 80-[maybe there is a way to change that??]
> I once shot a Reflex caribou and loved it wish I had bought it until I met the *Contituion, it set me free!*


PM sent. :darkbeer:


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

Keep those specs coming. Starting to get some info compiled but still need more. Thanks Guys, Dan.


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## Darton01 (Aug 25, 2006)

*43" ATA,SMOOOTH DRAW,SOLID BACK WALL,60-70% LETOFF,THIN GRIP,AMO 240 FPS OR BETTER.*:shade:


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## glass3222 (Jan 12, 2008)

Target Bow (i.e. Indoor spots, Field, FITA):
41-44" AtA
8" (+-1/2") BH
55-65% letoff
300-310 fps IBO (that way I am around 270-280 with my field setup)
Solid back wall

Hunting/3D Bow:
38-40" AtA
7" BH
65-70% letoff
315-330 fps IBO 
Solid back wall

The bows in my sig fit these specs so I am happy, but wish the S4 had a little firmer backwall. I would like to try the new Martin Shadowcat though. :darkbeer:


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## sinko (Dec 1, 2004)

Ok this is my 2 cents after working in a couple of shops and shooting fingers for years after every one ells quit using the relese God gave them. I think a person should look for a bow that is not much shorter than 12" ATA longer than their draw length, and brace height should be around 30% pluss of their draw length with an 8" min. 

For instance I have a 30" draw and I don't shoot bow shorter than 41" verry well and neither do I do well with much under 9" brace height.

I also like 60%-65% let off and soft cams with some sort of a draw stop. Dosen't have to be brick wall hard but never the less a back wall of some sort.

I believe that finger bows are like good boots, you have to get one that fits.

If I was in the finger bow market I would be looking at a Barnsdale Classic X 23" riser 43.5" ATA 

Thats just my 2cents


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

Keep em coming


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

catkinson said:


> AS stated above -Love mine too ! Just wish it was 65% let off instead of 80-[maybe there is a way to change that??]
> I once shot a Reflex caribou and loved it wish I had bought it until I met the *Contituion, it set me free!*


some sort of fully adjustable let-off would be awesome. otherwise for finger bows i reckon you should design for a bare finger shooter, and that way shooters can use tab or glove if they want, or bare finger if they prefer as well. that being said i bare-finger recurves and longbows as well so anyting's fine for me, but i'm young and stupid. something i can still shoot barefingers when i'm older and worn down would be good.
smooth as draw, and like i said earlier, as close to the Caribou (with cam and a half) as possible. long ATA but as light as possible too for less burden on spot-n-stalk.


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## jerrytee (Feb 5, 2005)

*One bow suits all????*

It seems to me that if you want to sell a number of bows to finger archers then the bow you sell has to suit as many as possible. 
Looking at the answers so far the only comon requirement is a near neutral riser that is fairly long. After that finger shooters seem to fall into two groups. 40 inches and over with round wheels, 40 and under with hardish cams.
I think that it possible to build one type of bow that will do both. For starters the cams would have to have smooth and fast modules like Bowtechs'. The smooth modules would have to roll over on to a straight part of the cable track to give the softer back wall. The harder fast modules would do with out the smooth back wall and have a draw stop peg on the actual cam to give the hard wall. Each module type with 1/2 inch draw lenght.
Next the limbs different lenghts as Hoyt do. Those archers that prefer long A to A and soft cams will want longer limbs. The design of the limb pocket/riser area would have a very long limb bolt and a pocket that give a wide range of angle adjustment to allow the longer limbs to be set at a different angle to keep the brace within range when a longer limb is used.( A 14 inch brace height might not be a good thing) To prevent the limb pockets being moved out of range for the lenght of limb, use a spacer on the limb bolt so you can't crank the limb bolts down too far
Add a thin medium to low wrist grip and I think you would about have it.

What do the rest of you guys think? Would you buy a bow like that where you could say just what you wanted it to be like?


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## NeilM (May 22, 2006)

jerrytee said:


> It seems to me that if you want to sell a number of bows to finger archers then the bow you sell has to suit as many as possible.
> Looking at the answers so far the only comon requirement is a near neutral riser that is fairly long. After that finger shooters seem to fall into two groups. 40 inches and over with round wheels, 40 and under with hardish cams.
> I think that it possible to build one type of bow that will do both. For starters the cams would have to have smooth and fast modules like Bowtechs'. The smooth modules would have to roll over on to a straight part of the cable track to give the softer back wall. The harder fast modules would do with out the smooth back wall and have a draw stop peg on the actual cam to give the hard wall. Each module type with 1/2 inch draw lenght.
> Next the limbs different lenghts as Hoyt do. Those archers that prefer long A to A and soft cams will want longer limbs. The design of the limb pocket/riser area would have a very long limb bolt and a pocket that give a wide range of angle adjustment to allow the longer limbs to be set at a different angle to keep the brace within range when a longer limb is used.( A 14 inch brace height might not be a good thing) To prevent the limb pockets being moved out of range for the lenght of limb, use a spacer on the limb bolt so you can't crank the limb bolts down too far
> ...



I lost track of Martin products a few years ago, but certainly in the past this is pretty much what they used to do. Hoyt too, but to a much more complicated degree.

Martin would offer a given riser with two or three sets of limbs and a couple of cams. This always worked for me and I shot their bows for quite a long time.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

Harperman said:


> Yep.......I heard that the longer A-T-A Monster was gonna happen, from a long time Mathews Pro Staffer...Not real sure what the A-T-A is gonna be, but it will be longer, none the less...When You get the longer Monster, PLEASE keep "US" informed of how it shoots....Take care.......Jim


Sheesh!

Looks like it will be into 2010 if at all, for a longer ATA Monster. That and a newer Conquest Triumph.

Although; the new 7.0 Monster looks promising, still shorter than I'd like. But I do like the less re flexed riser on it.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

CutTheLoop.....I've never understood why Mathews doesnt bring out Their new line-up all at once...Doesnt make good business sense to me, and it actually just pee's folks off....I wonder how many Archers have the new bow bug, and pull the trigger on a new bow, before they see what Mathews is bringing out every year??...As for the Monster 7.0, I figure that I could shoot one of those, I'd take off the grip, and that would make the brace height close to 7 1/2", plus I dont care for the wooden grip....Since I have a short draw, and a big nose, the string angles of that bow wouldnt bother me a bit.....L.O.L....Jim


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## Noobist (Jun 5, 2009)

jerrytee, i think you're onto something there. a bow that is as customisable and asjustable as possible would be fantastic.


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## CutTheLoop (Dec 26, 2007)

Harperman said:


> CutTheLoop.....I've never understood why Mathews doesnt bring out Their new line-up all at once...Doesnt make good business sense to me, and it actually just pee's folks off....I wonder how many Archers have the new bow bug, and pull the trigger on a new bow, before they see what Mathews is bringing out every year??...As for the Monster 7.0, I figure that I could shoot one of those, I'd take off the grip, and that would make the brace height close to 7 1/2", plus I dont care for the wooden grip....Since I have a short draw, and a big nose, the string angles of that bow wouldnt bother me a bit.....L.O.L....Jim


With a one finger release, it's perfect. :shade:


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## firemanbrown (Feb 17, 2005)

ttt


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## fingers (May 27, 2002)

I'd like a 45"ata bow with a cam/wheel somewhere in between Hoyt"s command cam and accuwheel in force draw curve. I'd want 60% let-off, no more. I'd also like a grip that could somehow be positioned to match the archer's hand position.


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