# Surprised at the difference between SF Axiom Plus and SF Premium plus limbs



## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

*Surprised at the difference between SF Axiom Plus and SF Premium Plus limbs*

I have heard it said that they are pretty much the same, and that has not been my experience. Since these are two very popular limbs, I thought this could be useful.

I've been shooting a lot with 24# SF Axiom Plus Limbs for the past 5 months. With my 30.5" draw weight (rather long), they measure at 31.4# on my 25" Gillo G2 riser.

Since I'm hoping to get into outdoor barebow tournaments eventually, which require up to 90 meters distance, by instructor advised that I start working my way up to about 40# draw weight.

So after working closely with her to find just the right setup, trying different weights of both SF Axiom Plus and SF Premium plus limbs... which included meticulously adjusting the limb bolts (for both tiller and dialing in just the right weight), measuring the exact draw weight, shoot for a while... rinse and repeat... we did this over a span of 2-1/2 hours...

We arrived at 30# SF Premium Plus limbs, which measured at 35.8#, which was just about exactly the jump in weight I was looking for... perhaps a bit of a large jump, but they feel great and it doesn't feel like a struggle at all. After a half hour I was shooting quite well with them.

What really surprised me was how much less they stacked compared to the Axioms. They felt like a much smoother, more consistent pull all the way to anchor, and didn't build in force nearly as much in the last few inches as the Axioms did... 

And the numbers prove it:

At 30.5" draw *the 24# Axioms measured at 31.4#*, which means they weighed in at 7.4# over their marked weight, or *about 31% over their marked weight*.

At 30.5" draw *the 30# Premiums measured at 35.8#*, which means they weighed in at 5.8# over their marked weight, or *about 19% over their marked weight*.

More anecdotally, it seemed that in general the few different sets of Premium Plus limbs I tried had a smoother feel than the Axioms (I don't have the numbers to back this up, but that's how they felt, generally consistent with the numbers above)...

*Bear in mind that I have a rather long draw at 30.5", so if your draw length is shorter you probably wouldn't notice as much difference as I did, and so for your shorter draw perhaps they are as similar as others have claimed...*

...But if you have a long draw like myself, I would highly recommend the Premium Pus's over the Axiom Plus's.

Hope this is helpful.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Sometimes you can get these differences between the two by changing preload.
Plus shorter draw requires shorter bow. So it may not just be the limbs.
Dan


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

+1 you can really change the way a limb feels by the amount your limb bolts are turned in or out. Not just in draw weight, but in where the stack point is located. It would really take identical limbs to give an apples to apples comparison - but who really cares as long as you are happy. SF makes some excellent limbs, performance and value that are very difficult to beat.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Fair points. 

For what it's worth, we were adjusting the limbs bolts quite a bit (from almost all the way out to almost all the way in) to achieve different weights with different limbs, and I was generally noticing the smoothness difference between the Axioms and Premiums regardless.

Rigorously scientific? Certainly not. But I'd call it "reasonably strong anecdotal evidence, with a few numbers to back it up"


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

We can assume all the limbs tested were the same length correct? Longs?
Your DL definitely puts you more on the fringe for stacking, so I think as you mention, you're more likely to feel the difference between the two limbs tested then a shorter draw archer who isn't dealing with the stacking.

My DL is slightly shorter but I could still feel some differences between the SF premium, premium plus carbon and premium high foam limbs when I was moving through those limbs. As your test shows, the best thing you can do as a new or growing archer is have access to a knowledgable coach and available gear to try out. The next would be making friends at your club or range and third a good forum where people share their experiences, experience, opinions and data.
Thanks.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

FYI there is no need to shoot 90m. The outdoor barebow round is 50m and NFAA field is 80yds.
The only exception would be if you choose to shoot Safari at 101 yds.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

GBUSA said:


> *We can assume all the limbs tested were the same length correct? Longs?*
> Your DL definitely puts you more on the fringe for stacking, so I think as you mention, you're more likely to feel the difference between the two limbs tested then a shorter draw archer who isn't dealing with the stacking.
> 
> My DL is slightly shorter but I could still feel some differences between the SF premium, premium plus carbon and premium high foam limbs when I was moving through those limbs. As your test shows, the best thing you can do as a new or growing archer is have access to a knowledgable coach and available gear to try out. The next would be making friends at your club or range and third a good forum where people share their experiences, experience, opinions and data.
> ...


Correct. All long limbs.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

grantmac said:


> FYI there is no need to shoot 90m. The outdoor barebow round is 50m and NFAA field is 80yds.
> The only exception would be if you choose to shoot Safari at 101 yds.


Hmmm. Maybe it's just the particular distances that Ace Archers shoots at. Maybe they do their own thing. I'll ask them. Thanks


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

dnelsen said:


> Fair points.
> 
> For what it's worth, we were adjusting the limbs bolts quite a bit (from almost all the way out to almost all the way in) to achieve different weights with different limbs, and I was generally noticing the smoothness difference between the Axioms and Premiums regardless.
> 
> Rigorously scientific? Certainly not. But I'd call it "reasonably strong anecdotal evidence, with a few numbers to back it up"


I'm sure you were feeling a big difference in the two limbs as the DW numbers in your previous post show you were working the Axioms in their upper limit while the Premium + limbs we're working closer to their normal range.
I don't remember exact numbers and it may vary some by manufacturer, but I seem to remember 8-11 pounds over the rated limb weight being about the max recommended.
Shortening of limb life and catastrophic limb failure rates may increase around that point if I'm remembering correctly.

You'll often find the freestyle shooter will adjust limb bolt position for optimal tune and forgiveness, generally in the middle of the adjustment range and will then change out limbs for any weight increase. Optimally done in 2 pound increments.
The above is not as much the case with newbies or the young where optimal tune is of less importance then training of form.

In traditional archery circles where ILF is still somewhat of the dirty newcomer  more trad folks opt to use the limb bolts as much for weight increase as they do for tiller and tune. In that case limb bolts may be more often maxed or a turn out.
There are of course exceptions, but you found these limits and some of the issues that pop up at the extremes.





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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

The real number that comes in this is your 20 yard score. Jumping draw weight should be dictated by that number and not end goal. That score average alone tells your instructor if going up or down in draw weight is warranted.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Sanford said:


> The real number that comes in this is your 20 yard score. Jumping draw weight should be dictated by that number and not end goal.


Not sure I understand. The theory was that since I eventually will be shooting at a lot more than 20 yards, I should gradually work my way up to heavier limbs. Whatever limbs I end up at (I'm guessing it will be about 36#), I plan to use those for all distances, including 20 yards. Does this not make sense?


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> Not sure I understand. The theory was that since I eventually will be shooting at a lot more than 20 yards, I should gradually work my way up to heavier limbs. Whatever limbs I end up at (I'm guessing it will be about 36#), I plan to use those for all distances, including 20 yards. Does this not make sense?


If you 20 yard scores are still not up there, the last thing you should be doing is adding work just because one day you want to be there. The latter goal would just undermine your current, to get consistently accurate enough to compete. What can you shoot for score now, with the lower poundage?


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Sanford said:


> If you 20 yard scores are still not up there, the last thing you should be doing is adding work just because one day you want to be there. The latter goal would just undermine your current, to get consistently accurate enough to compete. What can you shoot for score now, with the lower poundage?


I'm not going to get into an online debate to question the wisdom of my instructors.... that way madness lies.



I will say that I don't think that the poundage increase will be negatively effecting my 20 yard scores. After only a half hour of shooting with them I was very nearly right where I was with the old limbs. A bit more practice and I'll be right there. Not concerned.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

I believe what Sanford is saying, is that one should not increase DW to meet a possible future need or desire if ones form is not yet 100% at the weight they are shooting at now.
You must be able to dominate the weight 100% while your form is also 100%
Trading one for the other is a step backwards.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> I'm not going to get into an online debate to question the wisdom of my instructors.... that way madness lies.
> 
> 
> 
> I will say that I don't think that the poundage increase will be negatively effecting my 20 yard scores. After only a half hour of shooting with them I was very nearly right where I was with the old limbs. A bit more practice and I'll be right there. Not concerned.


Not debating at all. Just basic stuff. It takes more than 1/2 hour to do even one score. You need multiples to reach averages to measure any form to score improvement. All new toys work better till they are a few days old and reality comes home. Really, just offering some basic sound advice. Don't know your scores so asked. It makes all the difference there is.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

You would be shocked how much better you shoot at distance with a set of limbs you can 100% dominate vs a set that you aren't quite there even if you are aiming way over the bale.
Especially for barebow getting a good reference at long range is usually quite easy.

I'd suggest you shoot at the lower weight until you can throw down a back-to-back set of 250s indoors then see about increasing.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

The same goes for tune and feel. Tiller bolts are for tiller setting. BH is for tuning. Both of these will make a bow feel different on how it aims, draw and shoots.
Dan


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Hrrmmph. I was so excited about how these limbs feel and shoot. Scores aside I'm enjoying the hell out of them :/

Ok, well I still have the old limbs. I'm gonna shoot with the new ones for a while and see how it goes. Keeping an open mind about going back to the old ones.

Thanks


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

dnelsen said:


> Hrrmmph. I was so excited about how these limbs feel and shoot. Scores aside I'm enjoying the hell out of them :/
> 
> Ok, well I still have the old limbs. I'm gonna shoot with the new ones for a while and see how it goes. Keeping an open mind about going back to the old ones.
> 
> Thanks


All that's been mentioned was all in the idea of open exchange for the sake of understanding and general knowledge. We haven't seen you shoot, we aren't your coaches. If your coach feels like the increase in weight was the right thing for you at this stage and not for the need you have to reach distance in the future, then all well and good, enjoy the new limbs. But if you weren't actually ready for the new weight then it's actually detrimental.
To find out for yourself shoot the new limbs for a few weeks and then switch back to the old limbs and concentrate on your form and see how you shoot the old vs the new.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

D. I am the same. however, I came to realize that I keep my old stand by bow around, just in case, the honey moon is over.
Dan


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

GBUSA said:


> All that's been mentioned was all in the idea of open exchange for the sake of understanding and general knowledge. We haven't seen you shoot, we aren't your coaches. If your coach feels like the increase in weight was the right thing for you at this stage and not for the need you have to reach distance in the future, then all well and good, enjoy the new limbs. But if you weren't actually ready for the new weight then it's actually detrimental.
> To find out for yourself shoot the new limbs for a few weeks and then switch back to the old limbs and concentrate on your form and see how you shoot the old vs the new.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Good plan. Thanks.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> Hrrmmph. I was so excited about how these limbs feel and shoot. Scores aside I'm enjoying the hell out of them :/
> 
> Ok, well I still have the old limbs. I'm gonna shoot with the new ones for a while and see how it goes. Keeping an open mind about going back to the old ones.
> 
> Thanks


Nothing lost. Keep them for strength training later. The reason they seem to shoot better is because there's more weight on the fingers, making a cleaner release. Masking release errors. If your goal is to compete, that's exactly why you don't want them for training form. You want the lightest for 10 and 20 form training to learn perfect form and release. If you were just for recreational, not much issue. If truly you want to compete someday, you need a whole new attitude or it won't happen as you think it will.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Sanford said:


> Nothing lost. Keep them for strength training later. The reason they seem to shoot better is because there's more weight on the fingers, making a cleaner release. Masking release errors. If your goal is to compete, that's exactly why you don't want them for training form. You want the lightest for 10 and 20 form training to learn perfect form and release. If you were just for recreational, not much issue. If truly you want to compete someday, you need a whole new attitude or it won't happen as you think it will.


Makes sense, but unfortunately it conflicts with what my instructors are telling me, which drives me nuts.

Their school of thought is that if I'm going to be shooting longer distances outdoors later this year, it's better to get used to the higher poundage sooner. Within reason of course. They think I should make this moderate jump now, stick with it for at least a few months, then _consider_ jumping up once more.

So now I have two different schools of thought, both from very kind and knowledgeable people, both valid for different reasons. What the hell do I do with this? It is stressful, quite frankly. I'm definitely not looking forward to the prospect of going back to the range and having them watch me switch back after they so generously spent hours helping me figure out this move.

The instructors at Ace Archers are very serious target archers. They are the very same people who have been watching me shoot for 4-6 hrs a week for the last 5 months. They have become good friends who are very enthusiastic about helping me to improve.... If they thought this was a bad idea, believe me they would tell me. They do it all the time when I'm doing something wrong, and I'm very receptive to it... They don't think it's a bad idea, in fact they were the ones that suggested that I step up in weight when the topic of outdoor shooting came up... and no, they are definitely not just doing it so that they can sell me some cheap limbs. They are awesome people who wouldn't do that. In fact when I suggested the possibility of more expensive limbs they firmly talked me out of it, stating the the SF limbs in question are more than adequate for now, and that I shouldn't waste my money.

One last factor here that I haven't mentioned: they think that I am physically strong enough that I could have started with stronger limbs to begin with. This contributes to why they don't think this is a bad move, and they said so. Not sure if this bit of info changes anything, but there ya go.

Perhaps I need to stick to the real world for archery. You will ALWAYS find people on the internet telling you that you're doing it wrong, no matter what you're doing... that being said, I know that you all are very experienced and are genuinely trying to help. I know I'm not being trolled or anything, and I really appreciate the input... I just don't know what to do with the conflicting information. It is confusing, and worst of all it messes with my confidence. I went from being really excited about this change, to seriously questioning it. Ugh.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

If your coach said its time to move up in weight then don't stress over it.
On the other side of that there is absolutely nothing wrong with shooting both sets of limbs.
Many archers use a set of very light training limbs. Samick makes a set in 10# limbs for this very purpose. I kept a set of 20# limbs on hand for my light training.
Nothing improves your release like trying to get cleanly off the string on light limbs with skinny 1200-1500 spine carbons.
But trust your coaches and ask them what they think about adding in the lighter limbs for blank bale form work, or for when you have a bit of time at home and can practice your shot sequence with or without a training aid on the bow.
Again, trust your coaches if you have the confidence in them you plainly seem too. Nothing will piss them off more then to have some internet archery jockeys contradicting them. So ask questions ask about options, air it out on the forum, but have faith in your coach, or find one you do have faith in.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

GBUSA said:


> If your coach said its time to move up in weight then don't stress over it.
> On the other side of that there is absolutely nothing wrong with shooting both sets of limbs.
> Many archers use a set of very light training limbs. Samick makes a set in 10# limbs for this very purpose. I kept a set of 20# limbs on hand for my light training.
> Nothing improves your release like trying to get cleanly off the string on light limbs with skinny 1200-1500 spine carbons.
> ...


Thanks. Yes, for sure I won't be mentioning that the internet disagrees. Never.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> Thanks. Yes, for sure I won't be mentioning that the internet disagrees. Never.


Trust real life, but also trust yourself by educating yourself. At some point, you will know when you are being led astray, even by yourself. Here's where I would take first inventory. What is your current scores? I don't need to know, but no coach worth their salt should have you on the current advice without fully knowing, that is if said coach is setting you up to compete. Only you know the answer to that and need to. You can verify the advice for yourself by purchasing any reputable text. It's that basic to good coaching. Grant laid out a good benchmark.


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## Brian N (Aug 14, 2014)

My son switched instructors last September. The two had different ideas about how he could achieve his goals. One increased how much he was pulling, the other decreased it. I won't say which is his current instructor, but if we use scores as a measure of success, my son's scores improved under both instructors. I would ask the following: Do you work well with your instructor? Are you happy with the improvements? Is your instructor "in tune" with your ultimate goals? If you answer yes, go with whatever they suggest. As for my son, he was not sure that he had the "best fit" with the previous instructor (who is knowledgeable and successful with many students).


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Ok, so I'll finally go ahead and say it... I've never actually recorded a score. I have no scores.

I have only been into this sport for about 5 months. Obsessively so, but only for 5 months. Just shooting, not keeping track of scores. I take it one end at a time, and an overall feeling at the end of the night. The more I shoot, the better my accuracy becomes. And the better my accuracy becomes, the less I seem to care about my accuracy. I'm getting progressively less frustrated, which feels amazing. 

Archery is my new meditation, my new antidepressant. After a night where I feel like I shot well, I am just glowing. Happy. Feeling like I'm a part of a community. It is so good for my head that it's hard to describe.

Everyone keeps telling me to join the barebow league. That I would do really well, right in the mix with everyone.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. But honestly, I'm apprehensive to start keeping score. I'm worried that it will detract from what I love about the sport. Will it apply a metric where I didn't need one? Do I really need to _measure_ the joy I'm feeling?

The new limbs feel incredible to shoot with, and I can't wait to shoot with them more. Maybe that is all that matters. Will they effect my score negatively? I don't know. Maybe I don't care, and shouldn't care. And what are my scores? No clue. I have no scores. Maybe I should keep it that way, and just shoot.


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## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

You know I think there is a balance between light form limbs and heavier competition limbs. I personally use both to solidify my form. I will use the lighter limbs to find and work on specific problems but I also need to go to the heavier limbs to implement the newly learned techniques and develop the control required to properly shoot the heavier limbs with the proper form. I went to a coach a few months ago also, to work on some problems and used a 12 pound bow the entire time. Yes, I found the problem but then I had to go up in pounds for competitions. So now I , as I said i use both. repetition work with low pounds to set memory and strength work with the heavy limbs while executing proper form. I guess you could call it , finding the balance between the two.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

dnelsen said:


> Since I'm hoping to get into outdoor barebow tournaments eventually, which require up to 90 meters distance, by instructor advised that I start working my way up to about 40# draw weight.


You DO know that in a tournament, scores are recorded. So, if your current enjoyment is the FEEL of smooooooth limbs, and you have not scored yourself, and you are apprehensive to even record your FIRST score, are you SURE you want to do a tournament some day? If you are SERIOUS about shooting tournaments, GET over yourself, and start TRAINING. That means, working on specific skills. Consistency training would be an excellent idea. NO need to keep any SCORES. Just find a TRAINING distance, where you can SHOOT one arrow inside the 9-ring on a 40 cm target. Shoot with just ONE arrow in your quiver, and find a training distance where you can FIRE that ONE fletched arrow into the 9-ring or the 10-ring for at LEAST 30 shots. Start at a SUPER short, STRESS FREE distance, like say 5 yards or 5 meters. Fire the arrow. Put your bow into the stand. Walk to the target. PULL out that one fletched arrow from the gold. Back to the shooting line. NO scoring required. Just SEE that one fletched arrow in the gold...time after time after time. Yes, gotta learn how to shoot at a target, EVEN if you are SCARED to use a pen, to write down the score. No worries. No need to write anything down, at THIS very EARLY stage in your training. JUST focus on that ONE arrow, cuz you only have ONE arrow in your quiver. Pick an EASY training distance, cuz an EASY training distance is STRESS free, and you will build the muscle memory to repeat shot after shot after shot, and ALWAYS see the one fletched arrow in the GOLD. THis conditions your mind, to start to EXPECT to always see the one arrow in the GOLD. It becomes NO biggie, cuz you have selected an EASY to perform, training distance. The shot process, the MUSCLE memory build a SOLID foundation. THIS becomes PHYSICAL conditioning, building stamina, cuz you have to complete thirty shots. JUST pace yourself, so you can complete 30 shots. HOW long do you have to shoot this EASY distance? 1000 arrows would be good...however long it takes. Weeks. Months. Whatever your schedule. You WILL have to keep a log book, to keep track of the total number of shots, that landed in the GOLD. Just put a tick mark in your book, for every SHOT that landed in the yellow. NO score. Just a mark for an arrow that landed in the GOLD. Score keeping will come LATER during your training, after you build some confidence in your shot, which is currently lacking. AFTER you succeed and complete your 1000 arrows into the GOLD session (weeks or months), then, scoring will not be sooooo scary anymore.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

Or maybe I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and stop overthinking it.

I've been shooting 6-arrow ends at 20 yards on a 40 cm target, barebow, quite consistently hitting blues or better. Lots of reds and yellows. Occasionally I'll have an entire 6-arrow end all red or better, and it makes me ecstatic. My best end ever was 3 yellows and 3 reds.

And I'm consistently getting better. I don't have numbers to measure this, but I can feel it. And what I really love is that I'm getting less and less frustrated when I have the occasional bad end (so I guess it wasn't "bad").

Doing this and only this makes me very happy. I go home just absolutely glowing. 

I'm going to try my first league in two weeks. Maybe I'll enjoy keeping score. Or maybe I'll hate it and just go back to what I'm doing. Is this a path to the olympics? Or even semi-serious competition? From the sounds of it, no. But maybe that's not why I'm doing it. 

Maybe I'm not a competitive archer, and I just like flinging arrows. We'll see how it goes.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> Or maybe I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and stop overthinking it.
> 
> I've been shooting 6-arrow ends at 20 yards on a 40 cm target, barebow, quite consistently hitting blues or better. Lots of reds and yellows. Occasionally I'll have an entire 6-arrow end all red or better, and it makes me ecstatic. My best end ever was 3 yellows and 3 reds.
> 
> ...


The largest demographic of archers are not competitive archers and are recreational. You are not in the minority using it just as you are.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

nuts&bolts said:


> You DO know that in a tournament, scores are recorded. So, if your current enjoyment is the FEEL of smooooooth limbs, and you have not scored yourself, and you are apprehensive to even record your FIRST score, *are you SURE you want to do a tournament some day?*


Maybe not. The upcoming barebow league will be my first taste of keeping score. We'll see how it goes. In the meantime I'm going to keep enjoying the sport exactly as I am, with my fantastic new limbs. I love how they shoot and feel. That's my priority at the moment


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> Maybe not. The upcoming barebow league will be my first taste of keeping score. We'll see how it goes. In the meantime I'm going to keep enjoying the sport exactly as I am, with my fantastic new limbs. I love how they shoot and feel. That's my priority at the moment


For sure shoot the league even if you don't find the competition of it as important. I run our league, and we downplay the importance of scores over shooting for fun and good practice with others. Our most coveted award by the new folks each season is most improved. That's always going to go to some newer person who just got better regardless of how low their overall scores and just showing some trend in them. You got it.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

Since you have the archery facility and the option of joining in I say go participate in all the different shoots you can, even if you don't keep or turn in a score card. Shooting with or against others is just another aspect of archery and you just might find you enjoy it.
Best of luck.


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## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

A few thoughts...

I highly recommend keeping and tracking scores. Very useful for understanding your own performance and improving it. You don't have to advertise your scores or wear them on your forehead, but it is about being honest with yourself. It will also help you learn how to score and what to expect when you compete. It can also help with equipment choices. I recently had some riser and limb choices to make - I let 300 round scores make the decision. I have done likewise with arrow shaft selection. This is a great way to confirm/refute a subjective feeling.

IMHO, the tiller bolts are for tiller, not dialing up/down weight so much. Doing the latter can alter the geometry of the bow, increasing or decreasing the deflex. I like to keep the bolts in the middle somewhere. Whenever a tuning parameter runs to extremes, it's probably time to make an equipment change.

Finally, I have found the SF Carbon Plus to be stacky, even at my hopelessly average 28" draw length and in long length. I am not sure how to describe it, but same weight limbs and same riser, comparing Axiom/TradTech/Uukha, they feel stacky to me - even with measured weights the same. It probably comes down to personal perception, anatomy, and fine differences in limb design. Like Viper said, though, weight is weight and if you stick with it a while you will adjust and won't feel it any more. LOL, once used to it, other limbs might feel mushy.


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## Brian N (Aug 14, 2014)

There is a level of enjoyment and camaraderie during a tournament, that I enjoy, but don't stress that you "need" to eventually shoot competitively. I agree with Nuts&bolts that perhaps you should shoot with limited arrows in your quiver, and over, say a 60 arrow session, just record the gold hits (perhaps red too). Over the weeks take note of improvement. After a few weeks, ask your instructor their honest opinion. I think any archer, recreational, hunter or competitive needs some measure of how they are shooting, otherwise you are just flinging arrows. It's a great feeling too, when you master a skill (or at least show improvement). Last Wednesday, I started off like crap, blues and outer red, but I used that as a measure that indicated I had gone back to some poor form. Two or three ends later, much better. My son, who is very competitive, records every arrow, but he is at a level where one arrow can make the difference between placing and not (For example he tied score with another archer, but came in one below because he hit one less X). BTW, I know that this thread is not about me but, with my personal best a 241 (of 300) I am fairly competitive bare bow at the local shoots, so don't underestimate what you can accomplish. Sorry for being long winded.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

It is IMHO far easier to move up in DW shooting Olympic vs barebow. Heavier limbs are also much more important for Olympic archers to get their distance. 
This is one of those situations where Olympic and barebow experience differ.

Also introducing scoring after building expectations is much harder than starting it early IMHO.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

I have a SF Premium riser and SF Premium limbs and I like the combo. The older SF limbs do not have the spunk that these new limbs have and the new Premiums are quieter.....Can't ask for more than that.........


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## bullrambler (Mar 11, 2006)

I find the initial info posted in this thread by the OP to be really useful information. I have my hunting bow already set-up but I'll work towards building a bow with lighter poundage limbs. I expect to obtain the same riser (but 2 inches longer) and rather then use medium length limbs I'm going to use long limbs - yet lighter in the poundage. The bow that I'll hone my skills with - still may serve as a hunting bow but I will initially set it up for target.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

For what it's worth, I have now had the chance to shoot for a few hours with the new Premium Plus limbs, with the ~4# increase, and I am already shooting better with them than I ever did with the lighter Axioms. My instructors agree.


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

That's great news Nelson, keep it up! Lunger


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## lunger 66 (Feb 16, 2017)

I'm also using sf premium limbs, but went the other direction. I went from 38lbs down to 32 lbs. They do feel very smooth at my 28 inch draw length. Do you feel comfortable with your new draw weight? Lunger


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

dnelsen said:


> Maybe not. The upcoming barebow league will be my first taste of keeping score. We'll see how it goes. In the meantime I'm going to keep enjoying the sport exactly as I am, with my fantastic new limbs. I love how they shoot and feel. That's my priority at the moment


Sounds good to me. If you truly can simply shoot for your own enjoyment, that's fantastic. It is also possible to shoot for score for your own enjoyment, though if you've got any kind of a competitive side, it's difficult to do unless you enjoy competition, and have a good capacity for starting not on top.

If you can get into it with an exploratory attitude, and appreciate the community for what it is, a bunch of people sharing a common interest as a bridge for getting to know each other, you're golden.


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## dnelsen (Dec 11, 2016)

lunger 66 said:


> I'm also using sf premium limbs, but went the other direction. I went from 38lbs down to 32 lbs. They do feel very smooth at my 28 inch draw length. Do you feel comfortable with your new draw weight? Lunger


Yes, it feels quite comfortable. I shot for two hours straight last night, and could have kept going. I've never shot better. There's something about the increased weight that is working better for me. Loving it.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm not a serious competitor but have been shooting since 1955. I shoot a little heavier hunting style ILF bow for 3-D about 43-44# and don't keep score usually. My goal of good shooting is to have fun and hit every animal, no misses. My indoor bow is a 25" target riser and 36# limbs and is very comfortable to shoot. I also shoot this same bow for field shooting but with lighter, faster arrows. I don't find it difficult at all moving between the weights for different types of shooting and I'm 73 years old.


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## trevorpowdrell (May 8, 2012)

Massachusetts state outdoor championship and other outdoor tournaments still shoot a full FITA (90/70/50/30m) for all recurve archers with or without sights. I get lucky being masters only have to do 70/60/50/30m. 


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