# wood arrow sealing question



## jbw59 (Jun 27, 2010)

I've also started making my own wood arrows. I think I have my formula down with the shafts I have. Question is how many coats of sealant do you put on? How thick? I don't have a dipping tank, just brush on the sealant and hang dry, sand and second coat. Just doesn't seem like a lot of protection. I was shooting today and the sweat from my hands was discoloring the shafts. They'll probably warp now. The shafts not my hands. But we won't go there huh


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

What kind o' sealant?

What type of sand paper (and need for) between coats?

The game is afoot!


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## jbw59 (Jun 27, 2010)

Thin Man said:


> What kind o' sealant?
> 
> What type of sand paper (and need for) between coats?
> 
> The game is afoot!


Using 400 grit and just a poly seal. The reason I was told to sand between coats is because after the first coat, it will raise some of the wood and that has to be sanded off to get a smoother finish.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Interested as well. I've used spray, brush and wipe on polyurethane. Wipe on is easiest. Wondering what's tougher. 3D targets leave marks and residue on the arrow shafts that's difficult to remove.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

I've used both oil base and water base poly for the last few dozen woodies I've made, usually three coats over the stain, spray on my cap, crest, then at least three more over everything with light sanding in between. I've read you shouldn't use steel wool for sanding but I do, 0000 with a good wipe down after and so far so good. Obviously I don't sand the cresting but do sand in between spray (dip) coats. I want the grain to be filled and a nice glassy look to the final coat so I will keep adding coats until I get the look I want and no sanding on the last one. 

I have to think the oil base poly is more durable, but the water base does not go yellow over time which is very noticeable over white. Over natural or just stain the oil base is very nice.


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## guyver (Jan 3, 2012)

I want to try shellac in a dipping tube, since shellac dries quickly and is hard. I believe gasket lacquer is popular but never seen it


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

This is by far the best I've ever used. My buddy Tom figured it out years ago. Here it is, in his words.

1) First thing I do is stain shafts. I usually use aniline dyes from 
Gray Ghost Archery, but any stain will usually work. I only stain
to where the stain and crown will meet.

2) After stain dries, using 0000 steelwool to remove any raised grain, 
then stain again if necessary to achieve desired color.

3) If I don't have any epoxy formula made up, I use the following 
procedure for that.

*I purchase Devcon 2-ton epoxy and a can of acetone from Wal-Mart 
in the paint section. I use a 4 ounce jar (baby food or mason 
jelly jar) to squirt the entire contents of epoxy in to. I then
completely mix the 2 epoxy parts until clear. I then add 1 ounce
of acetone (1/2 jar) and stir until the epoxy appears to have 
dissolved and looks only like acetone remains. I then fill the 
jar with acetone and stir again for a few seconds.*

4) Applied one coat of epoxy as described next.

*Always wear chemical resistant gloves, I use the blue Nitrate cloves
that the tools trucks (Snap-On, Mac) sell to local automotive and
diesel garage mechanics. I use small cotton rags from t-shirts. 
Hold arrow at nock or point end, make one long continuous swipe
from end to end. Then rotate shaft 180 degrees and do again. (Do 
not attempt to double wipe on same side, the rag will stick to
the first coat).

5) After epoxy dries, check for raised grain. Remove if needed.

6) Apply a second coat of epoxy.

7) I will mark the shafts for my crown. I use 2 inch masking tape
at the crown line. I then spray the crowns on, (I usually use Krylon
enamels, and usually 2 coats will be enough). **If you are going to
use fluorescent colors, always spray a basecoat of white first.**

8) After crown dries, apply cresting lines (Testors model paints work great).

9) After crown and cresting are COMPLETELY dry, spray or brush the 
crown and crestings with a thin coat of Min Wax Water Based 
Polyacyrlic (blue can). I prefer to brush mine on while shaft is in my
crester. (I use an Arrow Specialties crester).

10) After poly dries, apply second coat.

11) After letting poly dry an hour, apply first coat of epoxy over 
entire shaft. Make sure to check wiping rag for paint residue 
after first arrow to insure that acetone is not attacking cresting 
and crown. If paint is being attacked, crest the arrow if 
needed, and give another coat of poly over all arrows. Some
paint will show up from the nock end where there wasn't any epoxy.

12) If all is ok, I will usually put on 5 to 7 coats of epoxy, 
make sure to smooth out finish very lightly with 0000 steel wool
between all coats. 

13) I then set nocks using Duco cement, and mount feathers with either 
Bohning Fletch Tape or regular super glues (not the gel stuff).
I prefer the tape. This makes for easy feather repair if needed. 
Make sure to remove any excess epoxy from the nock taper first, 
the cement will stick better. I do this with the small blade of my 
pocket knife.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

LBR, How quick does the Epoxy/ Acetone coat dry? Just wondering how long it takes to apply 5 - 7 coats on one shaft. Thanks.


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Wow Chad after all that work I'd put um on he wall


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

LBR: Nice post.

I have been thinking of getting some wood shafts in Sitka Spruce and also Douglas Fur. Not at all sure how to seal them. Was going to try "Tung Oil" stuff from Minwax. Just not sure how the feathers will stick.

May have to try the thinned epoxy.


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## Chupacabras (Feb 10, 2006)

I use LBR's epoxy formula (thanks Chad ) it is the best way to seal shafts. If you want to purchase wood shafts the best bang for your buck is to buy direct from Hildebrand. I use their Sitka spruce tapered shafts. The six dozen 50/55 spine that I received Monday were all within 5 grains. Think about it that is 72 arrows. Spine tolerance was just as tight.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I process the shafts about like Easykeeper. 

Bought the oil-based wipe-on poly first and stuck with it ... never tried the water-based. Use steel wool on multiple wood finishing projects and never noticed the later-date rust issues some mention ... I'm lucky, I guess, and do wipe down the wood thoroughly after using the wool. 

Here’s how I finish my wooden shafts:


Inspect, straighten, taper nocks and tips
 

Smooth with either 600 grit or 0000 steel wool (only time sandpaper might be used)
 

Color (if desired) with Minwax Oil Stain, leather dye, or paint ... dry 24 hours
 

0000 wool the stained shaft or dye ... not the paint
 
Minwax Oil-Based Wipe-On Poly (very minimal smell and off-gas in room)


Playtex kitchen gloves
Double-fold small square of paper towel
Wet with poly
Coat shaft with ridiculously thin layer of poly
Let dry 12-24 hours depending upon weather (You can tell it is dry when it feels a tad “crusty” or squeezes “hard”. If it’s tacky or squeezes “soft” – it ain’t dry!)
A gentle, non-aggressive 0000 steel wool to barely smooth it even
 
_Sometimes the first coats of poly will “fight” with the stain and not seem to dry. If so, just aggressively 0000 the poly nearly off and begin again ... it will take sooner or later._


Second coat same procedure
 
Crest if desired after second or third coat (I use acrylic paint)


At least four more coats of poly ... same procedure for each.
 
_If you’ve crested, go very easy with the 0000 wool over the crested area for the first couple of coats._

You’ll know you are done when the finish looks “deep” and glassy


Nocks with Duco cement
 

Fletch with Duco cement ... 20-30 minutes in the clamp per feather
 
_All Duco dries overnight before shooting_


Tips with Ferr-L-Tite hot melt glue.


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## jbw59 (Jun 27, 2010)

So how do you guys hang your shafts to dry? Or, do you just lean them up on something? When I finished my shafts the other day, I leaned them and a couple of them had to be re-straightened.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I lay an egg carton on the floor, prop them into the egg spots so they won't slide on the floor, and lean them against a piece of cardboard taped to a cabinet door in my garage where I won't trip on them. Only the tips will be in contact with a surface so the finish is not affected. 

I've never had a shaft bend during the leaning and drying that I know of. They are standing nearly upright - not at a severe angle. Don't know why that happened to you. You certainly could rig some sort of clothespin-like hanging system if you desire.

Were your shafts of a commercial arrow shafting material?


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## jbw59 (Jun 27, 2010)

Thin Man, thanks for egg carton idea. My shafts were commercial material. Lowe's poplar dowels. They're working pretty well so far. I've made 10 and they fly fine...when my form doesn't screw something up. I just want to get better at making them. It's almost as fun as shooting.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

In bad weather I find arrow making to be even _more _fun than shooting!


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

jbw59 said:


> So how do you guys hang your shafts to dry? Or, do you just lean them up on something? When I finished my shafts the other day, I leaned them and a couple of them had to be re-straightened.



I hung a dozen wooden spring style clothed pins from a cord with a knot on each side to keep them 3"-4" apart when the cord is hung horizontally. I do all my finishing and sealing on full length shafts so I just hang them from the uncut point end, the same end I hand on to when putting on coats.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

jbw59 said:


> Thin Man, thanks for egg carton idea. My shafts were commercial material. Lowe's poplar dowels. They're working pretty well so far. I've made 10 and they fly fine...when my form doesn't screw something up. I just want to get better at making them. It's almost as fun as shooting.


How consistent is the spine between shafts with the dowels? I've heard of people using them but figured there would be a lot of culls since the spine would be all over the place.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

Wish I could take credit for it, but my buddy figured it out--modified from Jay Massey's bow finish.

The first coat dries almost instantly. You can apply a few coats in one day, but waiting a day in-between isn't a bad idea. The more coats, the longer the drying time, but it still dries quick.


Looks like a lot of work, but it really isn't, and the steps are simple. They dry so fast you can lean, hang, etc.

This is also the most durable finish I've seen for wood shafts. We have literally found shafts that buried under the grass (or in Tom's case, under the snow) with the feathers rotted off and the field point rusted off--the shaft and finish were still good.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

I've experimented with inexpensive hardware store dowels. Gotta stand there and search through lots just to find several with a near-straight 32" segment. Home you go and once upon the spine tester there will be lots of variance. If you hit some several of equal spine, you end up with whatever that spine is - lucky if it is within the need of your bow. 

Hence the the people who purchase dowels by the hundreds from sources that deal with a variety of differing woods of furniture-grade for the handmade craftsman market. Out of hundreds, they can get a smaller quantity of what they need from any routine or exotic wood that's been "doweled". Would take days to spine, weigh, and sort into groups for future building. Cool hobby for the dedicated. 

The commercial arrow shaft providers do the spine work (and often weighing) for the consumer, so you can purchase within a very close ballpark to your needs. Most shafts are straight or straight enough to straighten, with the usual discard or two for various reasons. Not a bad deal compared to the guess-work and over-buying needed with mass-dowel-culling situations.

Dowels are fun to explore, if only for the education of it all. Great threads out there on some of the mass-dowel folk and their wondrous shafts made from woods I never knew existed.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

I like the Min-Wax Wipe on Poly or Spar Urethane the best, actually, I use Spar in a spray on bout everything. I keep some quart cans for shaft wiping, too. The Massey finish is an old bow finish method as well if you want an epoxy finish. Thunderbird and some others have been around as an epoxy finish for a long time too. The 2-ton version (hardware store stuff) of epoxy over the pints, quarts, or gallons of the other more specific epoxies is going to run you about 3x to 4x the cost in the end for the same result, but epoxy in the tube is handy at the Home Depot, so the cost saving may not matter unless you were doing larger quantities of shafts. Everything has a shelf-life, and a savings is nothing if you have to throw it out later.


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## UrbanDeerSlayer (Feb 10, 2012)

Does anybody know how long the epoxy/acetone mix will last if kept in a sealed jar? Will it harden up right away or last a few weeks or months???? Doesn't really cost too much. Loctite epoxy in the tubes is $3 at WalMart and a little acetone isn't much. Just wondering if I can mix some up and keep it on hand.

Also, im interested in this Massey epoxy bow finish. Anybody got more info?


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## Castmaster (May 2, 2013)

I personally haven't used the Bow Finish type epoxy on my arrows, but a buddy of mine uses thunderbird epoxy finish when he builds his bows, he will use the leftover epoxy from a bow project and finish up some arrows with it. I don't think he ever keeps the stuff around for long once its mixed. The arrows he finishes with the epoxy can take the elements like no other. I'm sure any bow finish type epoxy will be more than effective for arrow sealing. I am interested in giving this a go, Thanks LBR!


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## jbw59 (Jun 27, 2010)

Easykeeper said:


> How consistent is the spine between shafts with the dowels? I've heard of people using them but figured there would be a lot of culls since the spine would be all over the place.


I have no idea. But since going to a longbow, I've basically started over at 10 yds. I've shot a couple at 20yds and they seem fine but I have to get my scores up at 10yds before moving back. As I do move back, I may see a large difference in spine and flight and may have to buy some cedar shafts. As of right now, the poplar are flying fine. Here's a little sidebar. My arrows are cut at 27 1/2" from the nock to the front edge of the glue on point. The fact that the shafts are so short may help in the consistency of the shafts


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Now I know what I will do with the 1/2 gallon remaining of the epoxy I bought in the mid 80's! 

Next, I just have to save some money for a Hildebrand purchase.


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## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

Gasket lacquer, with the dip tubes and rubber gaskets with a hole to draw the shaft through is available from most archery suppliers. It is really quick and easy. With smooth shafts I generally don't sand or use steel wool. Three coats usually produce a good high gloss finish that is waterproof. I use cloths pins to hang for drying and can do three coats in an evening on two dozen shafts. Thin with acetone if need be. I also have had shafts winter in the weeds and be useable with refletching. They show some character lines as I do but I am kind of proud of them. - lbg


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> Does anybody know how long the epoxy/acetone mix will last if kept in a sealed jar?


It will keep a while, but I'm not sure how long. Just keep an eye on it--the acetone evaporating will be the problem. The cost, as noted, is very low so if it didn't keep it's no big loss. It mixes up quick and easy, so you don't have to worry about getting it together ahead of time. Literally a couple of minutes is all you need.


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## Castmaster (May 2, 2013)

longbowguy said:


> Gasket lacquer, with the dip tubes and rubber gaskets with a hole to draw the shaft through is available from most archery suppliers. It is really quick and easy. With smooth shafts I generally don't sand or use steel wool. Three coats usually produce a good high gloss finish that is waterproof. I use cloths pins to hang for drying and can do three coats in an evening on two dozen shafts. Thin with acetone if need be. I also have had shafts winter in the weeds and be useable with refletching. They show some character lines as I do but I am kind of proud of them. - lbg


The gasket laquer is an effective sealer, but after awhile I have seen arrows that look like the laquer finish is cracking...The seal is still good but it makes the arrow look a little funny. I've also heard that the fletch tite glue has an adverse reaction to the gasket lacquer too. The major benefit to the gasket lacquer is that it so simple to apply with an eco dipper.


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