# Help from the pro string makers



## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

I have a question for you pro's. I have built a couple strings with clear Halo for the Idler wheel. After I'm done serving and take the string off the stretcher to relax.... the twists in the string start coming undone under the clear serving. I'm sure it is coming undone under the colored serving too. How do I stop this? I'm using a Beiter x-tra heavy winder and think if I go much tighter my string will twist like crazy. Any help would greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Shane


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

sounds to me like you are serving them too tight. What tension is on the string while you are serving it. Take a little tension off the Beiter winder as it is so smooth you dont realize how much tension you have on them .


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

Spotshooter2 said:


> sounds to me like you are serving them too tight. What tension is on the string while you are serving it. Take a little tension off the Beiter winder as it is so smooth you dont realize how much tension you have on them .


What spotshooter2 said, you need to do one or both of two things. Loosen serving tension to 8-10 pounds, ite usually requires more then the standard 6 pounds of serving pressure to make it turn clear. The other thing is to load the strng under heavy tension to keep it from twisting. Use around 300 pounds of tension or possibly more. When you are serving, watch the string very closely and make sure it isn't trying to twist with the serving tool. You may have to serve slower as well.


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm serving it under 300lbs. I'll try serving it a little looser and see if that helpls. Any more tips would be great!


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

This is one of the reasons, I started using my Halo Clarifier. I just never could find a good reliable tension setting to keep it clear without getting too much tension in the tool.


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

I have some of your clairifier Deezlin....my main question was how come my twist are coming out underneath my serving. As soon as I put some tension back on the string the twist come right back to were it is supposed to be. It's got me really confused. I would think it needs to be tighter to keep it from coming untwisted but I will try to loosen it up a bit and try that. Thanks for your help guys.


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## Green River (May 13, 2006)

I have the same problem. I have experimented with test pieces and serving them opposite of the string twist and the serving is nice and clear and of course holds the twist in the string better. I don't know how it would do as far as peep rotation.


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## x-it (Apr 28, 2008)

Bow pro said:


> I have some of your clairifier Deezlin....my main question was how come my twist are coming out underneath my serving. As soon as I put some tension back on the string the twist come right back to were it is supposed to be. It's got me really confused. I would think it needs to be tighter to keep it from coming untwisted but I will try to loosen it up a bit and try that. Thanks for your help guys.


Bow pro I have dealt with this same issue. I feel that I was changing the twist rate under the serving by serving to tight. So when I put it on the bow the string would get some twist back under the serving but still the twist rate between the end servings would be tighter than under the end serving. I serve with the twist. I serve toward the post. If I start to untwist the string near the post I know now Im serving to tight. I also put 300lbs on the string while I serve. The twist rate has to stay the same through out the string under all servings. I still find this hard to do sometimes and it causes peep problems. I have little johns video I have read every thread I can and learn all I can I try to use the best equipment I can afford and I still half the time get peep rotation. Its consistent but I want no rotation at all. I have to believe the rotation for me is coming somewhere in my serving process. My strings do not rotate untill I add the serving. Cause i check by bringing the tension up and down while Im building. Im by far no expert but hope some of this helps.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Well I have to say that I thought I did something really wrong on my last string because this happened to me too. I had the idler portion of the string and the cam portion of the string loose some twists. It sat for two days before I could get it on the bow. I did have the end loops held together with a paper clip so it wouldn't "untwist". I couldn't get the twists back no matter what I did.

I didn't put a lot of tension on the server and I served in the same direction as the twists. The white halo didn't come completely clear and I had to use Deezlin's clarifier.

With this said, the first string I ever made with white Halo was for my C4 and the serving came out more clear and I really didn't need the clarifier but I used it anyway. I didn't loose any twists under the serving on this string and I have NO peep rotation at all.

I hope some one can tell us why this happens.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

Bow pro said:


> I have some of your clairifier Deezlin....my main question was how come my twist are coming out underneath my serving. As soon as I put some tension back on the string the twist come right back to were it is supposed to be. It's got me really confused. I would think it needs to be tighter to keep it from coming untwisted but I will try to loosen it up a bit and try that. Thanks for your help guys.


I guess, I really didn't answer your question. You are serving too tight. You are serving in the direction of the twisting and you are moving the twisting out from under the end serving. Been there and done that!!!:teeth:

The string holding bar that I sell will help you from twisting the string. I put it right over the serving in some cases with white Halo. It will marr the serving a little when serving, but the clarifier will clear it right up. 

Everyone thinks that if you serve the string as tight as possible you will keep serving seperation from happenning. This isn't the case. What you will generally do is create peep sight rotation problems. 

Two things cause serving seperation. One the serving diameter and strand count is too high and creates a diameter the cam groove will not support. When a tight turn is incountered the string tries to go egg shape in the groove and it can't relieve this. So, it will pinch and pry the serving opening. The other is sort of related. As you serve by hand you have tension variation. This is mainly because you are varying the tension, by it not being continuous. What then happens is when the serving goes over a high point, it will try to bend at the loosest point and the strand material will push through the serving. I call this a "blow out".

Now, I don't know who's jig you are using, but on mine I can twist under tension. If you do get into this situation, there is one possible solution without reserving. I would apply my clarifier so you can see the twisting or lack of twisting. The clarifier will act as a lubricant while it is wet. Apply 300# of tension and start untwisting the string. Allow the tension to drop to 250# and then re-tension and continue removing the twisting until the string is completely untwisted. Then apply 250# to the string and start re-twisting. Do not exceed 300# while re-twisting. It the string will then pass the peep sight rotation test all is good. If not, live with it, try again, or re-serve.

You have to do this before the string is relaxed from tension. You can also work the serving a little with you fingers to try to untorque it some. If you want until after the string has recovered the strand material will expand under the serving and you will never get it twisting correct.



x-it said:


> Bow pro I have dealt with this same issue. I feel that I was changing the twist rate under the serving by serving to tight. So when I put it on the bow the string would get some twist back under the serving but still the twist rate between the end servings would be tighter than under the end serving. I serve with the twist. I serve toward the post. If I start to untwist the string near the post I know now Im serving to tight. I also put 300lbs on the string while I serve. The twist rate has to stay the same through out the string under all servings. I still find this hard to do sometimes and it causes peep problems. I have little johns video I have read every thread I can and learn all I can I try to use the best equipment I can afford and I still half the time get peep rotation. Its consistent but I want no rotation at all. I have to believe the rotation for me is coming somewhere in my serving process. My strings do not rotate untill I add the serving. Cause i check by bringing the tension up and down while Im building. Im by far no expert but hope some of this helps.


I totally agree that if you have a stable string before apply the serving and then have rotation after you are done, the serving is causing the problem. There is no other answer!! 300# of tension really helps, but it doesn't eliminate the problem. I have tried serving towards the post and away. Either way in the serving in the direction of twisting will create the same problem. Using the white halo just reveals a problem that you could not see with the opaque servings. 

I don't believe #3D has this same ability because it doesn't create the binding force that Halo does. Why do I say this? Well, if you make the same strings using #3D and Halo and are serving with 300# of tension, the Halo string will end up longer that the #3D string after they have recovered to their final dimensions. The Halo will resist the swelling of the strand bundle better and create a higher binding condition. This is one of the reasons that Halo wears better around the tight turns in cams. This increase binding keep the string from going egg shaped in the groove.


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## x-it (Apr 28, 2008)

Deezlin how much tension is on your serving jig. And whats this bar your talking about while your serving.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Lets get this back to the top.

I made a string today. Served one end away from the posts and one toward the post. The one end I served toward the post seemed to "untwist " the worst. I used white Halo and served it tight enough that it was fairly clear but with one coat of clarifier it was clear. 

I would take tension off the string and the end I served toward the post would loose nearly all twists. As I added tension back to the string the twists would come back but not completely. 

I let the string sit and relax. I tested for rotation at the peep area and from 100# up to 250# and back down there was no rotation at all!

There has to be a way to stop this "untwisting " from happening.


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## GCOD (Nov 24, 2006)

serving in the wrong direction will also cause this problem


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

GCOD said:


> serving in the wrong direction will also cause this problem


I totally disagree. Serving too tight will cause this problem. If you are twisting the string right handed and serving right handed, you will move the twisting out from under the string on the end servings, if you are serving too tight. If you are serving in the opposite direction, you will move twisting towards the post when you are serving too tight.

When you are out in the middle of the string and serving, it doesn't matter which way you serve the string. If you are serving too tight, you will move twisting one way or another.



TN ARCHER said:


> Lets get this back to the top.
> 
> I made a string today. Served one end away from the posts and one toward the post. The one end I served toward the post seemed to "untwist " the worst. I used white Halo and served it tight enough that it was fairly clear but with one coat of clarifier it was clear.
> 
> ...


This is probably true. As you move away from the posts the string is more subject to twisting caused by over-tightening the serving tool. So starting away from the post will increase the untwisting.



x-it said:


> Deezlin how much tension is on your serving jig. And whats this bar your talking about while your serving.


I don't know exactly. I do it more by feel now. I would say 6-8# would be about right. I can't really find the picture of the bar and text now. If you will PM me your email address, I will send you a PDF file.


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## jcmorgan31 (Nov 9, 2005)

GCOD said:


> serving in the wrong direction will also cause this problem



+1


When I first started building strings I served in the same direction on both end servings (long story......). This would make one end served opposite the direction of twist and one end with the twists. When serving clear, I would notice that the twists were coming out under the serving that I served in the same direction of the twists. After rethinking my point of view, I switched the direction of that end and I've not had this issue any longer......regardless of the tightness.

I used to have the "blow outs" when I served with the twist as well. I do not have this issue any more either.


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*Ok I have been watching this thread for awhile*

I have never experianced any of the things you are talking about...

So I tried a little experiment...

I have found 3 things that caused the problems you are talking about

1. Too much tension on the serving tool
2. To high of a twist rate
3. Not using separators

Or all of the above at the same time


Remedy that I have found for clear HALO is

insert a piece of TAG end in the string where the peep would go ..

Get a twist rate that is not too extreme

Make sure you use the separators

Serve only tight enough so that the TAG end bareley moves* if at al*l while serving...That will be plenty of tension for White .014 HALO

Put some Brownells CAM EZ on it and you will have a nice looking serving:shade:


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## GCOD (Nov 24, 2006)

Deezlin said:


> I totally disagree. Serving too tight will cause this problem. If you are twisting the string right handed and serving right handed, you will move the twisting out from under the string on the end servings, if you are serving too tight. If you are serving in the opposite direction, you will move twisting towards the post when you are serving too tight.


I would agree if it was happening on the jig.The problem is not occuring until after he removes it from the jig and lets it relax.


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## x-it (Apr 28, 2008)

Guys If i twist clockwise then I need to serve clockwise whether serving towards the post or away from the post. Right or do you guys do it different.


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm serving in the same direction of the twist. I do use the string spliters and and have the string under 200lbs of tention when twisting. My twist rate is 1.5 twist per inch. I'm going to play with some ideas I have and I'll let you guys know what I come up with. Thanks for all of the replys and suggestions.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

I did a little twist test last night . If the colors are separated and then twisted from one end then the string twists from the center out. Right?

Well if you watch closely you will see that the end you are twisting is in fact going to have a right hand twist ( I twist to the right)... BUT... the other end is going to have a left twist! So when that other end is served in a right hand direction you are serving in the opposite direction of the twist!

The post I made above about the string loosing less twists on the end I served away from the post... that was the end that had the Left hand twists and served in the Right hand direction!

Interesting?


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## x-it (Apr 28, 2008)

TN ARCHER said:


> I did a little twist test last night . If the colors are separated and then twisted from one end then the string twists from the center out. Right?
> 
> Well if you watch closely you will see that the end you are twisting is in fact going to have a right hand twist ( I twist to the right)... BUT... the other end is going to have a left twist! So when that other end is served in a right hand direction you are serving in the opposite direction of the twist!
> 
> ...


I noticed that. I twist clockwise so the end I twist the string from I serve clockwise but the other end I serve counter clockwise cause like you said it twist the opposite way. Do you do it this way or do you serve both ends in the direction you twisted the string.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

x-it said:


> I noticed that. I twist clockwise so the end I twist the string from I serve clockwise but the other end I serve counter clockwise cause like you said it twist the opposite way. Do you do it this way or do you serve both ends in the direction you twisted the string.


I typically serve everything in the same direction I twisted. 

I think I will experiment on my next string and serve the ends in the ACTUAL direction of the twists.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Tried serving in the direction of the twists. It did't help! the twists still came "untwisted"!!! ARRRRGGG!!!

View attachment 667302


View attachment 667303


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## airbourn (May 21, 2008)

Ok, take a 6 or 8 foot rope ,double it, tie the end and put a dozen twists in it the same way you would twist your string. Now pick a place to serve, end toward the post or away from the post, center serving going either way. If you twist the rope like you are serving and in the same direction you twisted the string it will twist the same as your string twist.Twist string clockwise serve clockwise,twist counter clockwise serve counter clockwise. It does not mater where on the string you start serving or in what direction.


Hope this helps I did it to see if I was right.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Still no explanation as to why this is happening? :noidea:


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

TN ARCHER said:


> Still no explanation as to why this is happening? :noidea:


Nice Transition on the loop :shade: but I think that the serving looks too tight...

I am baffled ...I have never seen that before


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> Nice Transition on the loop :shade: but I think that the serving looks too tight...
> 
> I am baffled ...I have never seen that before


I had a some help in getting my transitions so neat.:wink::wink:


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## helixarcher89 (Jul 18, 2008)

TN ARCHER said:


> Tried serving in the direction of the twists. It did't help! the twists still came "untwisted"!!! ARRRRGGG!!!
> 
> View attachment 667302
> 
> ...




Wow.. I have the same string color as yours..hehehex.. That cools..




ex-wolverine said:


> Nice Transition on the loop :shade: but I think that the serving looks too tight...
> 
> I am baffled ...I have never seen that before



Yup.. I am also thinking that the serving are quite tight.. =)


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

I found in my little test today that the only way I could keep the string twisted under the serving was to serve it at around 9 to 10lbs. I checked this with a hand held fish scale. I served 4 sections of a mock 27 inch string with clear halo. The first section was served at 3 to 4 lbs.(had to used clarifier) to see the twist. The next section was served at 6 to 7lbs. Then I served another section at 4 to 5lbs. All of them came untwisted except the one I served at 9 to 10lbs. They untwisted within 3 minutes after taking the tention off. I built a string for my fiance's DXT last week and used around 9 to 10lbs. I did the whole test of raising and lowering the poundage during the building process and it twisted like crazy. I put it on the bow yesterday and we put somewere around 200 shots through it and the peep rotates a little under a fourth of a turn during the draw. From the first shot till the last one it is still rotating the same. I have bought well known custom strings and they rotated the same as the one I built for her. Just wanted to let everyone know how my little test turned out!


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Then what everyone is thinking is wrong. It is believed that the serving is TOO tight.
With what you are saying... it is not tight enough, correct?

I have no idea what poundage my serving jig was set at on the string I posted a picture of. I do know that I could "flip" it and it would go around the string on it's own a couple of times. I don't think it would do that at 9-10#. 

Would it?


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

That's what I'm saying. When I had it tight enough that the twist didn't come out of the string....the serving tool wouldn't go all the way around by it's self. I had to help it around the string. It felt pretty tight to me actually. This was the only setting I could get to keep the string twisted. Hope this help's ya out TNArcher!


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

To me that doesnt make any sense if you are putting your wraps on in the same direction as the twists of the string that if you put the serving on with little tension it takes the twists out of the string. Wierd.


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## Breathn (Jun 12, 2005)

*ttt*

wich way are you serving? away from loop end or toward end loop?


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm serving toward's the loop. I'm having this happen on idler wheel serving and also on roller guard serving were it's in the middle of the string and cable. I'm puzzled as to why I need as much tention as I do to keep every thing in it's place. In my little test I described earlyer in this thread I served some of it with the twist and some of it against the twist. It really didn't matter until I cranked up my lbs on the server. It held in place serving in both directions then.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Breathn said:


> wich way are you serving? away from loop end or toward end loop?


I have tried it both ways and it doesn't seem to make a difference.


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## Green River (May 13, 2006)

Are you alowing your string to roll while serving or are you holding it with something?


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*Ok, here is a trick or a way to figure out which way to serve*

1. Layout and twist the string
2. Pull one end off the post
3. grab the loop and twist it in the direction that the string tightens or twist up
4. Put loop back on post
4. Serve in that same direction in which the string tightened or twisted up

Do the same on the other end

Hope that helps

Tom

I still think that the serving tool is too tight to flatten out or lose twists under the serving...


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## helixarcher89 (Jul 18, 2008)

ex-wolverine said:


> 1. Layout and twist the string
> 2. Pull one end off the post
> 3. grab the loop and twist it in the direction that the string tightens or twist up
> 4. Put loop back on post
> ...


I am with you ex-wolverine.. Hehe.. I have the exact same thinking as yours..:darkbeer:


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## special (Apr 6, 2009)

I serve away from the loops..If I twist the string away from me at the right end of the jig I serve toward me there and away from me at the left end of the jig..This way both are with the twist..If serving toward the loop the opposite would apply(I guess)
I have only had one string untwist under the serving..This happened yesterday while trying some methods listed here..I tried serving the whole string in one direction and with a lower serving poundage and lost 50% of the twists..(i havent tried clear halo yet)..I have the string strained around 300lb and the serving tool fairly tight..If I let it go it wont rotate alone..But not tight enough to turn the string..
I dont believe theres a "halfway" as the twist is constant the whole way along the string..So it doent matter which direction I serve the idler etc as long as its going with the twist..


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*I Just couldnt make it happen*

Here is a Buss Cable I made this morning...I had the Bieter Serving Jig Cranked down as tight as I could , but not enough to damage the string and I could NOT get the string to lose twists...

Now when I serve the string it will be much lighter so I dont mess with peep rotation...So with that said there will be even less chance of the string untwisting...

It must just be the direction you guys are serving it...Try my little method above in post #37 and you should be just fine

Try as I may, my twist using .014 HALO remain even when wrapped tighter than you know what


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*Two Hours Later-Same Set*

I served the buss and control cable prettey tight and the string loose for peep rotation purposes and I havent lost any twists...

I sincerly believe that your serving it the wrong way to lose twists...Maybe its a combo of both wrong way and too tight

Tom


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Tom, was the cable still under tension when you took that picture ?

If you served it as tight as you can get your serving tool then maybe it is the serving tool itself. I use the BCY serving jigs and you can tighten them down so tight the serving spool will not turn.

I am not serving that tight of course. Like I said, enough tension to "flip " it over and it turn around the string a couple times. 

I am still going to try some tests, serving looser and tighter than what I do now and see what happens.

Great looking string ,Tom. :thumbs_up


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Green River said:


> Are you alowing your string to roll while serving or are you holding it with something?


NO. The string does not "roll". 

When I make a long single cam string it wants to in the middle but I use a tool to hold the string from "rolling". 

Deezlin sells them.:thumbs_up


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*The first pic was on the jig but no tension*



TN ARCHER said:


> Tom, was the cable still under tension when you took that picture ? If you served it as tight as you can get your serving tool then maybe it is the serving tool itself. I use the BCY serving jigs and you can tighten them down so tight the serving spool will not turn.
> I am not serving that tight of course. Like I said, enough tension to "flip " it over and it turn around the string a couple times. I am still going to try some tests, serving looser and tighter than what I do now and see what happens.
> Great looking string ,Tom. :thumbs_up


The second pic was a couple hours after hanging on the wall

Thanks...They are going on a Vantage Pro Im about to sell


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## Breathn (Jun 12, 2005)

*ttt*

I have served them so tight before the serving has broke(testing some things)..and it still didnt untwist..I think you are serving in the wrong direction..I serve from the loop down..pretty much like Ex wolverine does..
you want to serve it just like you are twisting the string..so if you twist clockwise from the loop end..then serve clockwise from the loop down..and if you serve to the loop you still need to serve the same way(clockwise)..
if you twist the string and then walk around to the other side of the jig and serve back to the loop wrapping back over the string that is the wrong way..(if that makes since..)


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*Well said*



Breathn said:


> I have served them so tight before the serving has broke(testing some things)..and it still didnt untwist..I think you are serving in the wrong direction..I serve from the loop down..pretty much like Ex wolverine does..
> you want to serve it just like you are twisting the string..so if you twist clockwise from the loop end..then serve clockwise from the loop down..and if you serve to the loop you still need to serve the same way(clockwise)..
> if you twist the string and then walk around to the other side of the jig and serve back to the loop wrapping back over the string that is the wrong way..(if that makes since..)


Well guys , hows it going??


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

ex-wolverine said:


> Well guys , hows it going??


I haven't had time to get out in the garage and do some more tests. I picked up a Bearpaw server at our Bass Pro Sunday. I have been wanting to try one. I think it's in the serving tool itself.
I may have to order a Beiter.

I will keep you posted. :teeth:


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm doing pretty well with it now. I just wasn't serving tight enough. I figured that I was only using about 3lbs of tention before...now I'm using around 8-9 lbs. My string's have never been this good! Thanks for all your help guy's I really appreciate it!
Thanks
Shane


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Okay, I think I have it figured it out NOW! I made an extra cable set for a buddies Pro Elite, using his cables as a "guinea pig".:shade:

No loss of twists. It only wanted to "unwind " about a half a turn on each end, once off the posts. 

WHOOHOOO!!!! This is under NO tension!!!
View attachment 674415


View attachment 674416


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## helixarcher89 (Jul 18, 2008)

Good job done... TNarcher.. You string twist rate looks good... How do you achieve that?

Thanks


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*looking good*



TN ARCHER said:


> Okay, I think I have it figured it out NOW! I made an extra cable set for a buddies Pro Elite, using his cables as a "guinea pig".:shade:
> 
> No loss of twists. It only wanted to "unwind " about a half a turn on each end, once off the posts.
> 
> ...


:shade:


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## special (Apr 6, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice Tom..
Ive started my building from scratch using your tips and everything is looking up..cheers Mate.:thumbs_up


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## ddd-shooter (Jan 18, 2009)

So it was the serving tool?


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

ddd-shooter said:


> So it was the serving tool?


I don't think it was. I am going to be building another string and cable for my bow this weekend and I am going to use my BCY #26 server and see if it comes out the same.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

helixarcher89 said:


> Good job done... TNarcher.. You string twist rate looks good... How do you achieve that?
> 
> Thanks


Divide the finished length by 1.375 and that will give you the # of twists to put in. Just round up or down.

It will yield a 1 twist every 1 3/8".


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey TNArcher....Was it the amount of serving tention for you? By the way the string look's great!


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## ddd-shooter (Jan 18, 2009)

What did you decide was the problem?


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

ddd-shooter said:


> What did you decide was the problem?


I made myself pay very close attention to the direction I served. I thought I was serving in the right direction but was serving in the wrong direction.:embara:

I thought I was starting right but I was not! If you don't get started right it will not turn out right.:wink:


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

TN ARCHER said:


> I made myself pay very close attention to the direction I served. I thought I was serving in the right direction but was serving in the wrong direction.:embara:
> 
> I thought I was starting right but I was not! If you don't get started right it will not turn out right.:wink:


Just so I am clear on your serving direction. Your string in the picture has what I refer to as a clockwise twist. When you serve and come over the top of the string is the server moving to the right as seen from the end of the string end being served?


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

Yes , that would be a clockwise rotation in his pictures so if you are looking at it from the end when you make the wraps the server is spinning in a clockwise rotation looking at it from the end.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

jim p said:


> Just so I am clear on your serving direction. Your string in the picture has what I refer to as a clockwise twist. When you serve and come over the top of the string is the server moving to the right as seen from the end of the string end being served?


Yes. 

It is easy to get things turned around, if you are not careful.


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## ddd-shooter (Jan 18, 2009)

Cool. I just learned something. Thanks!


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

This got me to thinking about the center serving and the idler wheel serving.

If you start serving in the correct direction at one end of the string and served the string all the way to the middle you would be serving in the right direction. If you continued to serve the string in this direction pass the center you are now serving in the wrong direction. 

If this is true then for a single cam bow the serving for the arrow and d-loop should be served in the same direction as the end of the string to which it is closer. The idler serving should also be served in the same direction as the end of the string to which it is closer. The idler serving may be so close to the center of the string that it doesn't matter which direction it is served.

Can someone verify this using the clear halo serving?

Also is the peep rotation less when the twist stay in the string under the servings?


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

jim p said:


> Also is the peep rotation less when the twist stay in the string under the servings?


You would think there would be a lot of peep rotation,but.
I made a string for a friends Pro Elite. The twists came out under the serving, it is the string in the picture I posted on page 1. My friend has it on his Pro Elite now and there is no peep rotation at all.

As for serving over the center of the string where the twists change direction, I have asked that question before and never really received a definite answer.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Bow pro said:


> Hey TNArcher....Was it the amount of serving tention for you? By the way the string look's great!


Sorry for not responding, I over looked this post some how.

I don't think that the tension was my problem. I served at about the same tension, maybe a little tighter than normal. I think my main problem was direction.


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## Bow pro (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks for the info TNArcher. I'm glad that you got it figured out.


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

*Fyi*

I made a string this evening using my BCY #26 server and the twists didn't come out with it either. 
So I now can honestly say it was all my fault.:embara:


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## splitarrow08 (Jun 13, 2009)

the only time I've ever seen this happen is when the string is served in the wrong direction


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*Maybe this one will clear up directon of serve*

Ok

If you look in this photo...I have the little john jig with the winder...The winder is on my right..I twist the strings or turn the crank away from me in the clockwise direction...


The best way to figure it out is stand at the end of the jig post, looking head on and serve it in a clockwise direction

I then serve that end it in that same direction, CLOCKWISE away from you..Can you see that Im wrapping the string over the top (Clockwise) away from me on the right post...Remember that is also the same direction I twisted the string...

I move to the left post (looking at it head on) and serve that end in a clockwise direction or towards you

Do not over think this..I did the same thing whem I started, and trust me...when I say this...if you twist your string in the clockwise direction serve both ends in the clock wise direction...

I also serve the idler wheel serving and center serving in the clockwise direction...Do not worry about crossing the imaginary centerline..the key is not to serve idler and center serving too tight

I love BCY products, but I found that when it comes to center serving, diamond back grips better and I dont have to serve it as tight as I do 62XS...I still use 62XS, because if the color choices, but I have to really watch how tight I serve as it will slip easier that dimond back

I use Deezlin's bar to help prevent twist on idler serving and center serving so I can serve a little tighter


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## x-it (Apr 28, 2008)

ex-wolverine said:


> Ok
> 
> If you look in this photo...I have the little john jig with the winder...The winder is on my right..I twist the strings or turn the crank away from me in the clockwise direction...
> 
> ...


Thanks great post.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

Simple solution.... print out this picture and hang it up over your string jig:


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## Green River (May 13, 2006)

I am still am not getting something here. In the picture it looks like you are serving in the oposite direction of the twist?


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## TN ARCHER (Jan 31, 2007)

Green River said:


> I am still am not getting something here. In the picture it looks like you are serving in the oposite direction of the twist?


Looks can be deceiving. Trust me he is serving in the correct direction.


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## SandSquid (Sep 2, 2008)

TN ARCHER said:


> Looks can be deceiving. Trust me he is serving in the correct direction.


Don't look at the direction of the swirl, per say...
think about which direction you'd need to twist the end to make that swirl.:wink:


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## ex-wolverine (Dec 31, 2004)

*ok*



Green River said:


> I am still am not getting something here. In the picture it looks like you are serving in the oposite direction of the twist?


If I were to take that loop off and hold it in between my thumb and forefinger and twist it until it tightens, it tightens in the same direction I twisted (CRANKED) it on the jig; right??

Now serve it in that same direction...The tightening direction!

Now got to the other end and do the same thing serve it in the tightening direction....

Trust me when I tell you; if you twist clockwise , you serve clockwise...When you go to the other end, and twist it with your fingers it will tighten in the clockwise direction...So serve it in that direction

Dont worry about all this stuff about the string it twistin the opposite direction at each end when using spacers..it all works out like I said in the above post...

Remember this ?? "Right Tighty" well it applies in this senerio


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I asked this earlier but I am asking again. If you twist clockwise don't you need to serve clockwise for the center serving (nocking point) using the end of the string which is closer to the center serving as a reference? 

Also if you twist clockwise don't you need to serve the idler wheel clockwise again using the end of the string which is closer to the idler wheel serving as a reference?

Now a little more confusion. If you are serving clockwise you need to serve clockwise no matter if you are serving toward the end loop or away from the end loop. The serving tool needs to be moving in the same direction.


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