# Challenge



## fxdwgkd (Oct 6, 2009)

I would venture and say that there were none that lasted. Hell, Castro said it himself, "communism does not work"


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## wolfkiller (Mar 23, 2010)

Curve1 said:


> I would like to know how many countries throughout history that have taxed and spent their way to prosperity........I know there's a lot of rheteric that's been around for many years supporting this theory but I've seen O countries in the past or present that have attempted this approach and have been sucessfull with it.........maybe I've missed it somewhere , is there a case where the tax and spend method has worked????????
> 
> We're being illegally forced to have a Socialist Healthcare system....along with a lot of other programs we've been forced to be a part of...like the ALL SUCCESFUL _Social Security deal,_ man that one is a winner! :thumbs_do
> 
> " *A people that will give up their freedom to get something, deserve neither*"


OK lets see the health care bill, now an insurance company can't bump you and throw you or your kids to the wolves because you become too sick, now an insurance company can't tell you they won't insure you because you or someone in your family has a pre existing condition, yea something as simple as taking a med for say blood pressure can make you uninsurable. now an insurance company can't bump your kid when he or she turns 21, they stay on your insurance till 26. 
and alot of other programs, why don't you elaborate, how about credit card reform??? to keep credit cards from screwing people with 28% interest rates. what about financial reform to keep big banks from doing to us what they did 2 years ago.

as far as spending your way to prosperity, yes it takes money to make money and yes this has been done in the past here in the good ole USA, bailouts in one form or another are nothing new when the economy is taking a dive. and spending in the form of bailouts are what Europe is doing right now and it's working, the economy's in Europe are back on track and much better than ours, Germany is out of their recession. you gotta stop drinking the tea it's spiked. taking the Bush tax cuts from people who make over 250K a year will bring 700 billion bucks a year to our economy. 
so what do the Republicans have to offer, yea privatize social security, put it in the hands of the same schmucks who screwed over this country at the end of the Bush error!!


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

wolfkiller said:


> OK lets see the health care bill, now an insurance company can't bump you and throw you or your kids to the wolves because you become too sick, now an insurance company can't tell you they won't insure you because you or someone in your family has a pre existing condition, yea something as simple as taking a med for say blood pressure can make you uninsurable. now an insurance company can't bump your kid when he or she turns 21, they stay on your insurance till 26.
> and alot of other programs, why don't you elaborate, how about credit card reform??? to keep credit cards from screwing people with 28% interest rates. what about financial reform to keep big banks from doing to us what they did 2 years ago.
> 
> as far as spending your way to prosperity, yes it takes money to make money and yes this has been done in the past here in the good ole USA, bailouts in one form or another are nothing new when the economy is taking a dive. and spending in the form of bailouts are what Europe is doing right now and it's working, the economy's in Europe are back on track and much better than ours, Germany is out of their recession. you gotta stop drinking the tea it's spiked. taking the Bush tax cuts from people who make over 250K a year will bring 700 billion bucks a year to our economy.
> so what do the Republicans have to offer, yea privatize social security, put it in the hands of the same schmucks who screwed over this country at the end of the Bush error!!




All I can say is you must be delusional. No, it has never worked. History tells us this. Sorta like getting a round peg into a square hole...it aint gonna work.
As far as Republicans go, they've been part of the problem also.
You cannot keep taxing and spending to better the economy.....you WILL pay for this healthcare scam...well, those of us that work and pay taxes.

But, I must say that a large % of America has voted these tax/spend jokers in office, the truth is Bush blowed more money than Bill Clinton did, now Obama is even worse.

Some folks just wont ever get it.....so we end up with leaders that have no regard for the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Obviously there's a lot American citizens that could care less.......look what we've had for a president for the last 20 years.

"* A people that will give up their freedom for what they think they will get, deserve neither" *


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## wolfkiller (Mar 23, 2010)

give us some examples of how it has never worked instead of the non fact "you betcha" wisdom you bleat. i just gave you several examples of how it has worked and was done right here in the USA, auto manufacture bailouts are nothing new and have been done in the past and have worked in the past, and yes we have had booming economy's after. there's a country just alittle north of us who's economy is coming back to pre global recession era numbers, and yea they have way better health care too, people don't die because they can't afford an operation. like i said stop guzzlin that tea, it's foggin yer brain, you betcha:set1_rolf2:


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

If you call rationing healthcare and paying out 60% of your income in taxes sucessful...then yes it works.

Since the govermebt generates O dollars, who pays for the bailouts? Who pays fro the healthcare for the guy that doesn't hold a job? 
You have a right to think what you want.....even if it's wrong.
The examples you give only prove my point.....I dont see how loosing half of my income to taxes and redistrbuting it to non-producing folks can help the economy. The bailouts are a bandaid on the sore, they dont cure the desease. Europe and Canada are certainly not good examples to use......who would wind up protecting Canada from an outside threat? *If *they're so well off financially? 
Real reform is what would help our healthcare here in America, and getting the goverment out of our bussiness....it's only goyt worse over the years, the more they get involved.

But, we just disagree.....that's ok, you can be wrong if you choose.:teeth:


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## hoytmonger (Sep 16, 2008)

wolfkiller said:


> give us some examples of how it has never worked instead of the non fact "you betcha" wisdom you bleat. i just gave you several examples of how it has worked and was done right here in the USA, auto manufacture bailouts are nothing new and have been done in the past and have worked in the past, and yes we have had booming economy's after. there's a country just alittle north of us who's economy is coming back to pre global recession era numbers, and yea they have way better health care too, people don't die because they can't afford an operation. like i said stop guzzlin that tea, it's foggin yer brain, you betcha:set1_rolf2:


None of your examples have proved anything.
Chrysler was bailed out in 1979 and survived for a while due to lucrative government contracts, every government agency was driving K-Cars. 
Germany is currently recovering from the recession due to exports to Asia and _cutting government spending_, just like the rest of Europe, austerity is the name of the game there. 
Health care in Europe, and Canada, is being returned to the private sector, because nationalized health care failed. 
You need to research some facts before you post leftist rhetoric.


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## Okiearchery (Sep 17, 2010)

Let me just throw this out there to those who maybe unawares. Here are a few socialist ideas that (maybe) you or someone who know or love takes advantage of with out any issue: Public Schools, Public Utilities, Inter and intra state highways, social security, medicare, Department of Transportation/Education/Homeland security, and many more. 

Having discussed this at length with my many friends and family members in the EU and other countries with national health care, I have been able to come to the conclusion that we are doing the health care bit wrong, but it's a start to improve on. The poorest people in France live longer than the Richest people in the US. I think that says something about both the lifestyle and the health care of this country. Is it Constitutional? no. You can't even read it into the general welfare clause. But then again, slavery was at one time Constitutional. I think everyone has the right to receive NEEDED medical treatment even if they can't afford to pay for it. But then again, I also don't believe in using doctors for anything outside emergency aid.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Slavery was legal because someone did not take seriously the clause that says " *each man is endowed with certain inallianable rights by the creator*" ect ect...

Abandoning the Constitution has always been a problem......that's why we shouldn't take it lightly.
Health insurance needs some real reform, but Socialize healthcare will not work. It is a hazrdous thing to call a _priviledge_ ...a _right_, it opens up a whole can of worms. SOcial Sec, and Medicare is a fine example why it _wont_ work.
I'm tired of paying other peoples' way with my tax dollars....that's immoral.


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## Okiearchery (Sep 17, 2010)

Since when is being healthy a privalidge? Let's see if you dont accept Medicare to help pay for your prescriptions as a result your not eating right. Do you condem your parents(if you or they are old enough) acceptance of social security? It is working just fine is many countries. You have to start somewhere. I am willing to say that based on the odds alone that most people who post on here do not make enough to pay taxes or pay very little because they are in the lower tax bracket. Do you send your children to or did you go to public school? You didn't even want to adress the things that have worked for years that are socialist ideals. The problem we see in the educational system now is that the children don't care to learn and in most instances the parents are not involved or care enough to see that their childreb do well in school. Education and health are most certainly not privileges. By the way much of the higher education is free in the EU. It's not suprising most of the industrialized world is much more educated and cultered than the US.


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## Okiearchery (Sep 17, 2010)

In reference to the Castro comment earlier in the thread, communism and socialism are two very different forms/ pouches of government. I wonder how many people here are members of their local co-op


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

I geuss it depends on whether or not we want to abide by the Constitution or not..........it is clear that some folks dont.
And I do pay taxes....more than I think is fair considering I'm taking care of some dead-beat that dont want to work. We are garunteed the right to the _pursuit of happiness_, not an entitlement to it. You're post is just a good example why we've had the political leaders we've had for the last 40 years.
I'm respectfully disagreeing with you.......Again, America was formed as Democratic Republic, not a Democracy. Socialism and our Constitution can not sleep in the same bed together .....they're two totally different forms of goverment. So, it doesn't matter whether you're refering to Socialism or Marxism, they're both in opposition of our Constitution.
If you disagree then that's ok because you're not disagreeing with me but you're disagreeing with our founders and their intent.
If I had a choice as to the issue of Medicare or Social Security [had an option] then I would say that's ok. But, to mandate it is not right nor lawfull.


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## wolfkiller (Mar 23, 2010)

the constitution was written a long time ago by a bunch of old fuddy duddies who rode around in horse and buggies. i do beleive things have changed. cracks me up to see how both sides pretend to be sworn upholders of the constitution and the whole im a partriot crap thing has gotten OLD! the young are going to change this country and thats the way it's always been. its just the old farts and their lame ideas tend to hang on alittle longer in todays internet age and with the help of old foggie Fox news...time to step aside older America a whole new way of thinking is coming.


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## Curve1 (Nov 25, 2009)

Without a written Constitution based on moral values all is lost....as simple as that.
If you can change as you we see fit.......nobody is safe. It is sad to see that outlook on our Constitution. Those old men riding around in buggies were a lot smarter than the jack-legs we have in D.C. today.....though not perfect. Bottom line is some wont see the light untill it's too late. Look how good a job the _progressives_ have done so far. LOL.


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## The G (Nov 12, 2009)

wolfkiller said:


> the constitution was written a long time ago by a bunch of old fuddy duddies who rode around in horse and buggies. i do beleive things have changed. cracks me up to see how both sides pretend to be sworn upholders of the constitution and the whole im a partriot crap thing has gotten OLD! the young are going to change this country and thats the way it's always been. its just the old farts and their lame ideas tend to hang on alittle longer in todays internet age and with the help of old foggie Fox news...time to step aside older America a whole new way of thinking is coming.


Dude you sound like a Red


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## hoytmonger (Sep 16, 2008)

wolfkiller said:


> the constitution was written a long time ago by a bunch of old fuddy duddies who rode around in horse and buggies. i do beleive things have changed. cracks me up to see how both sides pretend to be sworn upholders of the constitution and the whole im a partriot crap thing has gotten OLD! the young are going to change this country and thats the way it's always been. its just the old farts and their lame ideas tend to hang on alittle longer in todays internet age and with the help of old foggie Fox news...time to step aside older America a whole new way of thinking is coming.


Apparently the "old fuddy duddies" have a higher level of intellect and appreciation for personal liberty than the young with their "whole new way of thinking."


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## Timber's Edge (Jan 18, 2010)

wolfkiller said:


> the constitution was written a long time ago by a bunch of old fuddy duddies who rode around in horse and buggies. i do beleive things have changed. cracks me up to see how both sides pretend to be sworn upholders of the constitution and the whole im a partriot crap thing has gotten OLD! the young are going to change this country and thats the way it's always been. its just the old farts and their lame ideas tend to hang on alittle longer in todays internet age and with the help of old foggie Fox news...time to step aside older America a whole new way of thinking is coming.


Is this not the saddest perception of the American Constitution that anyone has ever read. It's amazing the severe lack of history that a lot of people in this country have. The game of government, control, corruption, wealth, and power have never changed throughout any time in history. Only the players have changed. The idiocy and the complete lack of common sense in this country is astounding and for any person or politician who has enough stupidity to exclaim that our Constitution is outdated and that the founding fathers of this country didn't know what they were talking about is truly a distasteful and despicable slap in the face to not only the founding fathers but to every American who lost their life delivering this country from tyranny into freedom. What I think is amazing is the exact same prinicples, values, freedoms, and rights that our founders fought the British over then are the same ones that we the people are continuing to fight for to keep today. Possibly because there is nothing new under the sun. Theres definitely nothing new in government that has never been tried somewhere in the world in some time or another. So maybe there ideas way back when are right on the mark because the same tyrannical temptations exist today as they have many many years before, which are the same all over the world in every country. Greed, power, wealth, and control just to name a few.


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