# Custom Stagg Stabilizers



## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Perfect that's all you need!


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## Shipwreck151 (Dec 26, 2013)

Looks very good! If you ever want to sell some let me know


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Some more pictures


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## vftcandy (Nov 6, 2009)

Nice, the end caps would look better polised up.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

We also made some weights out of stainless steel that weight 1.5oz.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Shipwreck151 said:


> Looks very good! If you ever want to sell some let me know


If you are serious pm me. I might just sell you the machined parts and you could build your own!!


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

vftcandy said:


> Nice, the end caps would look better polised up.


You are very right! They look awesome with the stainless weights when the end caps are polished. We have done the polished and they look great. I don't have mine polished because I am to lazy. Lol


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

VERY Nice !!!! I rolled some carbon tubing this morning, should be cured in the AM. I like your design quite a bit. I want my caps to be black so aluminium may not work. I may do delrin and make my caps internal. I am also considering a thick liquid fill. I am doing mine for BHFS so they need to be shorter.

You did a really nice job.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Pete: CNC or manual lathe?

OhWell: I'd recommend against using just internal ferrules. I really think that carbon does best when the ends are completely encapsulated or sandwiched. Have you given any thought to Duracote or anodizing?
I'm mulling around the idea of pouring the weight end ferrule of the stabs I make out of 80 durameter polyurethane to offer additional damping. It's stiff stuff but rather thin so you have to ensure the stab is well sealed before pouring. 

-Grant


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

Thanks Grant, I have been working with carbon tubing for a VERY long time and rolling my own and laying up my own stuff for about 10 years. I cheat !!!! 

I roll my tubes with some glass and or kevlar mixed in to make them more durable. I would agree with you 100% if I were using commercially made tubes. By rolling my own tubes I can control the properties. I normally use a 4.1oz Uni-Carbon for the stiffness and fiber glass to supply hoop strength and durability.

Even what resin is used can have an effect on the properties. Most of the resins used commercially are of a lower quality that what we smaller shops use. I can even alter the properties of my the part with the curing cycle.

The other mistake people make is to believe external is stronger than internal but in reality the end of any fitting is a stress riser. To keep the ends from chipping it is a simple case of leaving a lip on the internal fitting to protect the end.

I really love how much folks on here are willing to help others. Grant was looking out for me and now we all have more information to build on.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

I have been thinking about anodizing the end caps also but they have gotten kinda expensive already for what we were doing so for now we just polish them. I have the raw aluminum look on everything now because I am lazy but don't mind the look. 
Some of you guys are waaaaay out of my league as far as carbon tube making. I wouldn't know where to start or have any knowledge on it. Lol


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Grant the first ones we did were on a lathe but now they are all done on a CNC. First time I got to play on a lathe was with stab ends. I am really having fun and never miss an opportunity to play with his machines but I am by no means a machinist.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

OhWell said:


> VERY Nice !!!! I rolled some carbon tubing this morning, should be cured in the AM. I like your design quite a bit. I want my caps to be black so aluminium may not work. I may do delrin and make my caps internal. I am also considering a thick liquid fill. I am doing mine for BHFS so they need to be shorter.
> 
> You did a really nice job.


Thank you very much for the complement but most of the credit goes to my good friend Joe Stagg. He did most of the work I just was there to help and do the grunt work. Lol


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## trinibob (Mar 10, 2004)

Still got my stagulizer joe made my  tell joe I could use 20oz of them end weights.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

I am selling the weights now for him. Since he got married this fall he has kinda fell of the map. Lol
If you want some weights just pm me what you want and I will get them shipped out to you.


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

I think my nest big project is a blade type stab to help beat the wind from pushing me left and right. An oval, if shaped right, will have less than half the aerodynamic drag a tube of similar area would have. I am still sorting out how to keep it flat when tightened.


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## trinibob (Mar 10, 2004)

Tell joe to get that stick back in hand and shoot! 
And pm sent


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

OhWell: I'm just using good old fashioned pultruded. Talked to a material engineer and basically told me it wouldn't be worth the added expense to use a wrapped tube for what I'm doing. So I just make sure to spread the stress out over the largest practical area and sandwich the ends of the carbon. I'm happy producing visually simple stabs which work just fine for my purposes, it's just a weight on a stick afterall. I make them cheap enough that I can experiment.

Pete: I'm in the same place. Not a machinist, just have access to a well equipped Non-CNC shop and the willingness to make large pieces of metal into small ones. I like to do it with a minimum of materials but that is just my Scottish side showing.

-Grant


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Grant I also like making huge chip piles. Lol
Our next project is using an alpha elite riser with Mathews monster cams and limbs. Joe had it put together but it was over 11 inches of brace hight and we thought that was a bit much. Lol
So at the moment we are waiting for another late nite that we can sneak into the shop and make some new lumb pockets.


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

Grant, your engineering buddy is quite correct. In 90% of the stuff pultruded works very well. The multi rod stabs are normally made with pultruded. In the case of pultruded you are also correct about the ends being more prone to splitting. Pultruded rubes have no fibers running axially so they do not do well with just a female type adapter. What I just rolled will look somewhat like a pultruded tube but I have fiberglass running both directions to keep it from splitting. I am going to fill mine with a gel so having a thin wall with some space inside will be nice.

Building stabs is a of fun, I really enjoy coming up with creative ways of doing things.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

What sort of gel are you thinking of? I haven't really dealt with any sort of vibration damping in any of the stabs I've built. Mainly I've focused on getting the weight minimized while maintaining rigidity.

As I said above I was thinking of casting the weight end of the stab with something resilient like polyurethane holding the weight. I've also considered some sort of expanding foam as a few other people have tried.

-Grant


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## redneck-archery (Jan 8, 2014)

That looks really good. Nice job. Best part is you guys made them.


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## onyx48166 (Feb 9, 2011)

Those look nice


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

A gel I have used in the past is a simple mix of plant feeding granules and water. I cannot remember the exact name, I found it at Wally World in the craft area. I simply did not add as much water as it called for and I got this really cool gel. The other option is to dissolve some Styrofoam. I am really after a really thick liquid as opposed to a solid. You could also fill the end with Oogoo, which is a home brew rubber.

Once upon a time I knew a couple of guys who filled short stabs with mercury. This things were awesome.... Give it a minute and we will have someone telling us the obvious about mercury...... I never said they were safe just very cool.

Another good fill would be very fine shot or wet sand. Both of these would add weight to a short stab and absorb shock. My bow is very dead on the shot I am mostly doing this for balance. My goal is a well balanced bow that settles into the shot easily.

I just removed my long front stab and want a similar feel from a shorter stab (BHFS)


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Ohwell I have noticed the vibration seems to change with the long stabs with the amount of weights that are applied. My buddy bought one of those limbsavers that are made to slide over rifle barrels and it definitely helped. I have heard of guys filling with foam as well. I just put a rubber end cap on the end of the weights. I like it that way for not only helping with vibration but also then I can rest the bow on the end of the front stab while I load the next arrow and it doesn't scratch my stuff up.


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

I will have to look at the vibration stuff for guns, that is brilliant. To this day my favorite long stab is a carbon fiber golf shaft with the proper adapters. They are very stiff in either a S or X and are designed to absorb vibration. On top of that they are cheap or free in many cases. The long one I just took off my bow has an internal fitting on the bow side and a delrin weight on the other end. I almost put a golf ball on it for the weight....I still might for open class shooting.

I need to get some opinions and thoughts from you DIY folks. Would there be an interest in oval carbon tubes like the blade stabs? I have the skills and tools to make them and the needed caps but there would have to be some interest before I would go down that road right now. I would think I could do a basic tube and two caps for about $75. The real issue is how to do the bow side stud so the stab lines up the same every time. The only way I have come up with is to use an adapter of some kind.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Got parts ordered--can't wait to get something built...

don't know if I'm going to anodize or not--depends on how cheap I can get it done or what it takes to do it in the garage...


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

OhWell said:


> I will have to look at the vibration stuff for guns, that is brilliant. To this day my favorite long stab is a carbon fiber golf shaft with the proper adapters. They are very stiff in either a S or X and are designed to absorb vibration. On top of that they are cheap or free in many cases. The long one I just took off my bow has an internal fitting on the bow side and a delrin weight on the other end. I almost put a golf ball on it for the weight....I still might for open class shooting.
> 
> I need to get some opinions and thoughts from you DIY folks. Would there be an interest in oval carbon tubes like the blade stabs? I have the skills and tools to make them and the needed caps but there would have to be some interest before I would go down that road right now. I would think I could do a basic tube and two caps for about $75. The real issue is how to do the bow side stud so the stab lines up the same every time. The only way I have come up with is to use an adapter of some kind.


There is not a ton of call for custom stabs. Most guys are brand loyal. 
Except in this forum were the smart people hang out. Lol jk
I would think you would just have to make a prototype and then keep cutting the back of end cap untill it lines up?

I can ask my buddy for sure. 

The end caps would be easy to make on a CNC


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## oldschoolcj5 (Jun 8, 2009)

those look GREAT


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Fury90flier said:


> Got parts ordered--can't wait to get something built...
> 
> don't know if I'm going to anodize or not--depends on how cheap I can get it done or what it takes to do it in the garage...


Post pics if you get them done.

I know there used to be a guy that would anodize motorcycle parts in his garage.
I was thinking about trying it myself but Have been to busy lately


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Ohwell I would be interested for sure.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Fury90flier said:


> Got parts ordered--can't wait to get something built...
> 
> don't know if I'm going to anodize or not--depends on how cheap I can get it done or what it takes to do it in the garage...


Here is a website that tells you how to do the anodizing without battery acid:

http://www.observationsblog.com/4/p...-and-dying-aluminum-without-battery-acid.html

You still use acid, just one that's a little less obnoxious.

I haven't tried it yet, but plan to when the big box stores stock up for pool season.


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## tadpole (Oct 10, 2005)

Looks like you got something going there!! Those look pretty nice and far cheeper and just as good as the expensive ones!!


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

Peteyur said:


> Ohwell I would be interested for sure.


Cool, I think it would be worth it to make the mould. Given the $$$ for a Blade and the obvious benefits of the shape it would be worth it if just to make a few stabs for some friends and myself. I will use a mould and bladder system, this is how I made high performance RC sail plane fuses for about 10 years.

For the stud end the stud gets enough threading so it can screw into the bow. The part that goes into the stab is smooth and set screws lock it into position so it is horizontal


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I wonder if the blade stabs use directional fibers in the top and bottom to increase stiffness? Or perhaps the internal shape has stiffeners or even a shear-web going down the middle.

-Grant


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## buckman2591 (Feb 6, 2011)

i'll take a 18" rod!


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

OhWell said:


> Cool, I think it would be worth it to make the mould. Given the $$$ for a Blade and the obvious benefits of the shape it would be worth it if just to make a few stabs for some friends and myself. I will use a mould and bladder system, this is how I made high performance RC sail plane fuses for about 10 years.
> 
> For the stud end the stud gets enough threading so it can screw into the bow. The part that goes into the stab is smooth and set screws lock it into position so it is horizontal


That makes sense. I always go about things the hard way!


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

grantmac said:


> I wonder if the blade stabs use directional fibers in the top and bottom to increase stiffness? Or perhaps the internal shape has stiffeners or even a shear-web going down the middle.
> 
> -Grant


My experience with the blades is very minimal. The shape would seem to help stiffness I would think though?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

grantmac said:


> I wonder if the blade stabs use directional fibers in the top and bottom to increase stiffness? Or perhaps the internal shape has stiffeners or even a shear-web going down the middle.
> 
> -Grant


you can get them made just about any way you want. All the stuff I've seen, they're made the same way round tubes are, just the mandrel is oval/aerodynamic shaped...made with cloth-- the weave is what you want it to be...their stiffness comes from the shape.




Pete (or anyone that can answer)-- do you know of a supplier for Tri-Weave tubing-- all I can find is unidirection and bi-weave--did find some braided- might look at that.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Fury90flier said:


> you can get them made just about any way you want. All the stuff I've seen, they're made the same way round tubes are, just the mandrel is oval/aerodynamic shaped...made with cloth-- the weave is what you want it to be...their stiffness comes from the shape.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know of any but haven't really looked either. The stuff we made them out of was from Rockwest composite. It wass bi-weave I believe. That was way more than stiff enough.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

I looked at a place called clearwater composite and it looks like you can get almost any shape you want.


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## orarcher (Jun 3, 2006)

Wonder what a 20" +- front stab and a 10" side bar with weights would run me ? 
I can powder mine (and your) end caps and weights any color imaginable


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

aread said:


> Here is a website that tells you how to do the anodizing without battery acid:
> 
> http://www.observationsblog.com/4/p...-and-dying-aluminum-without-battery-acid.html
> 
> ...




I might look into something like that.

Thanks for posting!!

Pete


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## Pittstate23 (Dec 27, 2010)

Wow that's superb


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## yugami (Dec 10, 2013)

Where did you source your tube from? I haven't played with carbon fiber much but I have a machine shop in my basement thats been sitting idle


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

yugami said:


> Where did you source your tube from? I haven't played with carbon fiber much but I have a machine shop in my basement thats been sitting idle


We got our tube from Rockwest composite but if you can make any size ends then I think Clearwater composite is cheaper but you have to watch what you buy. The different wraps do act differently and some are not near as stiff as others. 
Hope this helps?

Pete


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## atennishu (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks for the info and the ends,


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

atennishu said:


> Thanks for the info and the ends,


Post up some pics when you get them finished!!


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## bonecollector47 (Feb 12, 2011)

I also created my own stabilizer almost like yours but incorporated some of mathews designs. Sorry not selling to anyone because of license issues and no room to make money.


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## bonecollector47 (Feb 12, 2011)

Try using a clear coat over your carbon fiber tubing. It makes it look alot better if you dont mind the gloss look. Really brings out the look of the carbon


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## bowfreak1970 (Mar 31, 2011)

Just send me the machine code and I will turn my own out of hardened 15-5 or 304... HaHa
Option #1 - Do you roll your own tubes from prepreg on a mandrell with some mold release, and just let them dry?
Option #2 - Do you "Double carbon" aka same as above only vacume bag and oven cure?

I know option #2 is lighter but more brittle. 

I have a friend (aka a guy I met and chatted with about his bow) who is a gun nut who took shotgun shells, female 15-5 threaded inserts, home rolled prepreg, bonding agent, and ended up with shotgun shell outers the inserts and weighted it with hydrolic fluid and the smallest birdshot he could find. It looked cool but strange as well. His bow was a winchester so I guess it was okay.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

bonecollector47 said:


> Try using a clear coat over your carbon fiber tubing. It makes it look alot better if you dont mind the gloss look. Really brings out the look of the carbon


The clear over the carbon is a very nice look!!
I have a set done that way but didn't clear it myself. Most carbon tube retailers sell it both ways. When I get home I will get a picture of one.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Bowfreak1970 I do not roll my own tubing but there are several guys that do. I never thought of rolling it but some have got me thinking!!


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## xtraefrt (Mar 9, 2012)

Bump it up


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

Curing method has nothing to do with how brittle the finished product is. That comes from the material and the resin. Some resins are more brittle and some materials are more brittle. Higher modulus carbon is more brittle and some resins are stiffer when cured, this is a bad combination. The choice of an oven or no oven is based on the chosen resin. Some resins need heat and some do not. Curing methods do have an effect on how well the resin cross links and this in turn effects strength.

Doing tubes in a vacuum system will not yield very good results. The methods I use give me more pressure so I can get a better resin to fabric ratio.

I do not like pre-pegs because I do not know what resin they put into the mix. I buy raw material and wet it out with resins I know and trust.

Paul


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## xxtremeteam (Feb 1, 2013)

Do you sell these complete if so I'd like a price for a 12 inch not sure how much weight but I can find out


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

I hope you are asking the OP, mine are rather rough looking right now. I have been building mostly stuff for my hunting bow and they are purpose built with looks be secondary.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

xxtremeteam said:


> Do you sell these complete if so I'd like a price for a 12 inch not sure how much weight but I can find out


I have sold some in the past and might build some in the future but at the moment I only have the parts for sale and you can find that information in the classifieds or search my threads.
You are not supposed to sell in this section of AT.


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## xxtremeteam (Feb 1, 2013)

Peteyur said:


> I have sold some in the past and might build some in the future but at the moment I only have the parts for sale and you can find that information in the classifieds or search my threads.
> You are not supposed to sell in this section of AT.


Ok I'll look into this later today


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

OhWell said:


> Curing method has nothing to do with how brittle the finished product is. That comes from the material and the resin. Some resins are more brittle and some materials are more brittle. Higher modulus carbon is more brittle and some resins are stiffer when cured, this is a bad combination. The choice of an oven or no oven is based on the chosen resin. Some resins need heat and some do not. Curing methods do have an effect on how well the resin cross links and this in turn effects strength.
> 
> Doing tubes in a vacuum system will not yield very good results. The methods I use give me more pressure so I can get a better resin to fabric ratio.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information paul!!!!
That's way out of my knowledge bank at the moment but my start getting more education on it if you don't make any blade style!!!!!


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

OhWell said:


> Cool, I think it would be worth it to make the mould. Given the $$$ for a Blade and the obvious benefits of the shape it would be worth it if just to make a few stabs for some friends and myself. I will use a mould and bladder system, this is how I made high performance RC sail plane fuses for about 10 years.
> 
> For the stud end the stud gets enough threading so it can screw into the bow. The part that goes into the stab is smooth and set screws lock it into position so it is horizontal


I got to try out a set of blades last night and to be honest I didn't like how stiff they WEREN'T. 
They were the old style but at 30" it seemed almost flimsy. 
Do you think its just the way they are or could you make them stiff?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Probably has to do with how they made it and how they wrapped it...guessing over a mandrel and simply wrapped the cloth around it.

If I were making one, it would be hand layup, cross lay the pattern--(similar to below)-- I'd vacumme bag it (pull out voids)--don't know if I'd go with a hollow mould or mandrel
http://www.braider.com/Products/QISO-Braided-Triaxial-Fabric.aspx


BTW- got the other weights in- they look great....tubing should be in today (weather pending). If it comes in, I'm just going to assemble for now and shoot---I'll paint or anodize later


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Fury90flier said:


> Probably has to do with how they made it and how they wrapped it...guessing over a mandrel and simply wrapped the cloth around it.
> 
> If I were making one, it would be hand layup, cross lay the pattern--(similar to below)-- I'd vacumme bag it (pull out voids)--don't know if I'd go with a hollow mould or mandrel
> http://www.braider.com/Products/QISO-Braided-Triaxial-Fabric.aspx
> ...


Does anybody know of any good videos for making your own tube. I think I would like to try it.


Glad you liked the weights! !! It was a fun project for me. Post some pics when your done. All of mine are unfinished ends as well. I just couldn't wait to see what they looked like put together and then never took them back apart to anodize. They shoot the same either way. Lol


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## rfnu518 (Feb 7, 2011)

I got these from pete about a year ago and they still look great I have a slight problem so they are on, I think the 5th bow since I bought them and I think im going to pull them apart soon and either anodize or cerakote them for the impact im working on putting together nice to have that ability, its fun to mess with stuff


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## DBLLNGR (Mar 15, 2007)

I have one of these that Stagg built for me a while back it is hunter class legal and it is great wont shoot anything else


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

Peteyur said:


> Does anybody know of any good videos for making your own tube. I think I would like to try it.
> 
> 
> Glad you liked the weights! !! It was a fun project for me. Post some pics when your done. All of mine are unfinished ends as well. I just couldn't wait to see what they looked like put together and then never took them back apart to anodize. They shoot the same either way. Lol


I'm sure there is something out there but I'd have to do some searching. Most the information I used came from the RC hobby side...making wings, various fuselage components, helicopter blades (this would be a good place to start--aerodynamic shape, strong load bearing qualities)

Will get pics when complete...still waiting on the tube.
Get this- was supposed to be hear last Friday...didn't get here. Why? Weather alert---it was a little rainey and cold (30's-low 40's)--what a joke

it's supposed to be here today- but guess what- it's wet out, so who knows


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Fury90flier sorry to hear about your luck but your sense of humor is refreshing! 

Its -9 and snowing like mad here.

Will try search for carbon building videos as you have advised. Hopefully more information there!!!

Thank you


Pete


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## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

Sorry I was out of the loop. I have been selling my gear and shopping for new gear. There has been a shift in the archery paradigm...

A mould is really the best and easiest way to make an oval tube. A mandrel to accomplish even similar results would be very costly. A simple but very functional 2 piece mould is not a difficult project. The other issue is the finish, we are looking for a really nice outer finish with the interior not as critical.

The ideal way to do this is with a VERY solid two piece mould and an inflation bladder. This will yield the very best tube available anywhere. I am going to pursue this but I need a break in the weather so I can get in my shop to do the work. Be patient and remind me from time to time, I have a bunch of projects going on....

As for the flimsy feel, that was probably due to the lay-up choice. They went with a standard woven carbon. Sure it looks great but sucks for this purpose. The lay-up needs to be primarily a uni-carbon. This will give us the best weight to stiffness ratio. With the right lay up one of these should be uber stiff and still light weight.

At one point in my life I had a friend I worked with and we broke all kinds of barriers for stiffness to weight ratios in carbon construction.

Paul


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## nbcrawfo (Jan 29, 2013)

tag


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

I have some in the works. I polished up the end caps a bit. I need to go get Zephyr pro 40(aluminum sealer). Apparently that stuff makes me truck stop bound. I have my carbon tubes cut and squared and my 5/16 set screws just came in. I'm hoping to have everything assembled this weekend. and I'll post some pics.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

Looney Bin said:


> I have some in the works. I polished up the end caps a bit. I need to go get Zephyr pro 40(aluminum sealer). Apparently that stuff makes me truck stop bound. I have my carbon tubes cut and squared and my 5/16 set screws just came in. I'm hoping to have everything assembled this weekend. and I'll post some pics.


Cool!!!!!!
Can't wait to see how the polished ends you did look


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## Looney Bin (Feb 9, 2009)

Here are some pics of progress and final product.


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## Peteyur (Jan 31, 2011)

WOW!!!!
Those look really nice. Shinny
You are the first guy I know of to make the end caps look better than the stainless steel weights. Lol

Have you shot them yet? What are your thoughts on them so far?


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