# Almost ready to throw my Katera XL in the trash......



## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

I have a Katera XL that has never tuned well.....


60-70#
Set at 62#
28" DL
Draw stop timing set so both stops are hitting at exactly the same time. I spent a good deal of time ensuring this was as perfect as could be.
It is wearing the original strings (I think)
Whisker Biscuit rest
Tru Fire release
Tied in nock set and D-loop (as per Deezlin) set at 1/8" high from the berger hole
100 gr points

I have tried 27 1/8" Axis 340s....and.... 26 7/8"Axis 400......and 27" Maxima weight forward 250s 

All paper tune tail high...no matter where I move the rest or the nock point

I have been trying to get this bow to shoot for 5 years. I (thought I) upgraded to this bow when i gave my Ultratec to my younger brother for his birthday (a bow that I could easily tune and shoot accurately to 50 yds)

I have no idea what to try. What could I be missing that is causing the tail high flight? 

Any and all ideas and replies appreciated. I am not looking forward to dragging my boat anchor (albeit deadly) ten point crossbow around this season.


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

I forgot to add that the fletching for all of the arrows tried is NAP twister quickfletch


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## speed1 (Apr 13, 2006)

I feel your pain man, I have been trying to get the high nock tear out of this vector for 3 weeks, I have taken the cables off and on the bow hundreds of times, to the point that the end loop serving is coming unraveled. Today I found a post that said to move d loop up and down until you get the best tear, this is what I did and the arrow is nocked a quarter inch high now. But guess what, it is shooting a perfect bullet hole now, I also had to adjust the yoke legs just a bit, had a left tear after the high tear was eliminated, twisted the left yoke leg a couple turns and that took care of the left tear. I am sure I dont have the bow (in spec), but guess what, I dont care, I have it shooting a good hole through paper, now Im going to try the kitchen sink tuning by nuts and bolts. I hope you get it right, I know I have dozens of hours of my time trying to get the bow to have good arrow flight, best of luck to you.


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## beaverman (Jun 21, 2008)

I tune all my hoyts with the top cam hitting slightly ahead of the bottom.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Hey, I feel for you. Been there, done that more than I want. Cams synced, draw stop timed, limbs equal you'd think all should be good. Normally, the Hoyts I've set up come out about 1/16" nock high to give a decent tear. I don't care about bullet holes. I care how the bow is for accuracy. 

Something is wrong if you move the rest or nocking point and you don't see a change. Move, like move 1/4" or 3/8". If no change I suspect that whisker biscuit is interfering, not angled to match the arrow. Have you tried a different arrow rest, like a shoot thru, prong rest? 

I setup bows using a bow vice and bow string and arrow levels so to know what I truly have. RS levels are inexpensive, but they work. I have two sets of them. 

Couple of thing; under rotate the top cam one half twist at a time. Or what I don't like doing; try half turn in the bottom limb and half turn out for the top limb and see what you get. Yep, might effect the sync/timing a bit, but still should show something....


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks Folks. I will attempt every suggestion (individually of course)

Please keep them coming


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

another suggestion....FORGET what it does thru paper.... use bareshaft tuning or broadhead tuning for a more precise tune to your bow... so many get wrapped up on paper and think that once theres one perfect hole its good.... dont forget your arrows are spinning and flexing after shot....

another suggestion, have you tried a bareshaft thru that WB rest???? 

but trully i would add 1/2 twist to your buss cable (if cams both exact same draw stop now) that will advance top just a tiny bit. then go ahead with other tuning...

my Kat xl would shoot bareshafts fine with fletched arrows out to 30yds.....


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Something simple but often over looked, how is your string stop adjusted? It wasn't unusual for the carbon rods too be a bit long on that era Hoyt's. Too much string pressure will affect your high/low tears.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

One of the suggestions has to work, no doubt about it. Why? I had a new-in-the-box bow come to me. The only way I could get to shoot was back off the bottom limb bolt 4 full turns. Sent back to factory it was found miss matched limbs! 50 on top, 60 on bottom or something like that - 3 or 4 years ago now.


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## TheScOuT (May 9, 2011)

A friend at work had a Katera XL and he fought that thing for a couple years...it never tuned right. It would shoot ok, good enough for hunting and he could get decent groups but the bow never could hit it's sweet spot. Multiple shops and myself along with a few other guys tried everything with not much luck. I am convinced it was a poorly made bow or a bad engineering design. 

Last fall he finally gave up and bought a DNA SP and we had that thing shooting bullet holes in paper and laser beam barshafts at 20 yards in about 15 shots. It made him fall in love with archery all over again, like a brand new archer.


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

dwagoner said:


> another suggestion, have you tried a bareshaft thru that WB rest????
> 
> but trully i would add 1/2 twist to your buss cable (if cams both exact same draw stop now) that will advance top just a tiny bit. then go ahead with other tuning...


I will try the bare shaft methods too, Thanks


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

A quick update-

I put the bow in the draw board before pressing it.

i must have had a little stretch as the top cam was under rotated a pinch (perhaps 1/8")

I synced them up to hit at the same time, but it has not seemed to help.

I am about to press it again and advance the top cam even further to see if that makes a difference.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

if there dead even now then adjust to top hit 1/16 before bottom

Wheres your nock height at??? 

wheres your arrows in regards to berger hole???

set centshot 3/4 -13/16


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

dwagoner said:


> if there dead even now then adjust to top hit 1/16 before bottom-
> 
> Wheres your nock height at???
> 
> ...


I am going to advance the top cam a bit tonight and see what happens.

the nocking point has been tried 3 locations ( set so the arrow is dead level thru the center of the berger hole, 1/8" high and 1/4" high)

Given that I had some string creep (because the bottom cam advanced), could it be time for a new set of strings and cables? I think they are the original 2008 fuse set (which may have been junk to start with)

what do you mean by set centershot 3/4-13/16/


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

if your string/cables are moving thats definitely a problem, cus there prolly gonna keep moving... 

centershot is the left/right adjustment of the rest. its measured from inside the riser to the center of arrow shaft..


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Stephan C said:


> Given that I had some string creep (because the bottom cam advanced), could it be time for a new set of strings and cables? I think they are the original 2008 fuse set (which may have been junk to start with)


If 2008 strings, yes, definitely change them. I change strings each year on my target bows, if I keep them. Anywhere from 16,000 to over 20,000 shots are put on my factory strings. 

Factory strings have been getting a bad rap for years for no-good reason. Most all today will go a year of hard shooting with maybe a minor adjustment. I can live with that.


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

dwagoner said:


> another suggestion....FORGET what it does thru paper.... use bareshaft tuning or broadhead tuning for a more precise tune to your bow... so many get wrapped up on paper and think that once theres one perfect hole its good.... dont forget your arrows are spinning and flexing after shot....
> 
> another suggestion, have you tried a bareshaft thru that WB rest????
> 
> ...


Ditto on everything!!!

Most bows dont shoot with draw stops exact due to different grip pressures by different shooters.
My Katera XL also bareshafts out to 30 just fine.


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

I have a set of winners choice on the way.

I will install them, set the the sync so the top cam hits the stop a little first, the nock about 1/16" high and the centershot at 3/4" and report back.

thank you everyone for all of the suggestions...and if there is anything I am missing or anything else I should try, please let me know!


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

thats definitely good starting point... just remember to shoot a few after initial setup so strings settle on bow...


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

Copy that.

How many shots does a new winners choice string typically take to "settle" (BCY-X material)


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Not long. Some say you don't, some say up to 200 shots. My two cents; All set, peep in, fire half dozen shots to see if peep correction is needed. Correct if necessary and fire 6 more shots. Check peep. Anytime you press the bow and relieve string pressure a half dozen or so shots should always follow to make sure strings settle back in.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

agreed, not alot....after you install and do your tuning setup and cam sync and such youll have drawn back a few times, few shots, then when happy with bow specs put peep in and fire few.

good info sonny posted


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## Monkeybutt2000 (May 7, 2009)

Take a full turn out of the top limb. I've had 2 Kat XLs and never had a problem tuning them.


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

*Thank you*



Monkeybutt2000 said:


> Take a full turn out of the top limb. I've had 2 Kat XLs and never had a problem tuning them.



I will put that on my list of things to try as well.

How do you have the cams synced before taking the turn out of the top limb? How are the synced afterward?


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## Monkeybutt2000 (May 7, 2009)

Stephan C said:


> I will put that on my list of things to try as well.
> 
> How do you have the cams synced before taking the turn out of the top limb? How are the synced afterward?


If I was setting up this bow with new strings I would do this. Get your cam lean/sync rough set. Doesn't have to be perfect just close. Run about 100 arrows through it to get everything settled in. Then set nock height,cam lean and time cams. You can try the top ahead or both just hitting at the same time,whatever. I bet the new strings make a big difference.


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

i think tiller tuning would be a very last resort... i know alot have done it but on parallel bows its not as effective. i think new strings and a good setup will get you tuned....

biggest key is if bottom cam isnt too bad of lean, maybe weak limb, not sure if youve ever checked that


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

dwagoner said:


> i think tiller tuning would be a very last resort... i know alot have done it but on parallel bows its not as effective. i think new strings and a good setup will get you tuned....
> 
> biggest key is if bottom cam isnt too bad of lean, maybe weak limb, not sure if youve ever checked that


I have not.

what is the most effective method to check for cam lean (both top and bottom) on a Hoyt?

Is bottom cam lean correctable?

ETA:My strings should arrive within 48 hours


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## dwagoner (Sep 27, 2007)

bottom you just need to check to make sure its not excessive, you can lay an arrow along side of cam, reference the string as a straight line... sometimes people have had to swap limbs around. top you adjust from the Y in the buss cable so that controls top cam....


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

While I hope one of the previously offered suggestions works, it may be that your Katera's riser is twisted. I bought a used Kobalt that wouldn't tune no matter what I tried. Only when I laid a steel 36" rule along each side as the bow was clamped in a bow vise did I notice a 1/8" twist measured between upper and lower limb pockets. The bow was pristine, no signs of trauma. I'm sure it came out of the factory that way. Fortunately for me, the AT seller took the bow back, but if it's twisted - it will be un-tunable.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

And all cam lean, whether top or bottom, doesn't mean the bow won't be accurate. Just look for excessive lean. Arrow across the cam and to the nock point, 1/4" isn't bad..... Changing shims will sometimes help correct cam lean.

And getting carried away, you may only need those new strings. Shoot the thing. If the bow drills at all yardages it rips paper a "mile" and I wouldn't care.


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## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

I just made my first set of strings for my kat last summer. First set ever made. 
Anyway I made them to exact tune chart info and it was super easy to get it in greAt tune. 
I set it up exact. Shot it about 50 shots for fun and one or two twists and it was perfect!!!
Get a good custom set and life will be much easier to deal with. Lol


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## kilerhamilton (Jul 19, 2010)

Dude, this is funny no offense, you are asking elementary tuning question to want to throw your bow in the trash because you cant get it tuned. 
top cam needs to be parallel with the string at full draw. Cams need to be in the right starting location, sync, bottom cam needs to hit a hair after the top. Nocking point needs to be at 90* from bow string through rest a little above the bottom of the burger hole. Set rest so that an arrow is parallel from an arrow pressed against the riser. 13/16ths to 3/4s. Shoot through paper with the arrow level to the ground. 3yds 9yds 12yds.
your grip makes a difference big time. All Bows tune unless limbs are swapped or cams are bent or something very unlikely.


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## Stephan C (Sep 10, 2006)

kilerhamilton said:


> Dude, this is funny no offense, you are asking elementary tuning question to want to throw your bow in the trash because you cant get it tuned.
> top cam needs to be parallel with the string at full draw. Cams need to be in the right starting location, sync, bottom cam needs to hit a hair after the top. Nocking point needs to be at 90* from bow string through rest a little above the bottom of the burger hole. Set rest so that an arrow is parallel from an arrow pressed against the riser. 13/16ths to 3/4s. Shoot through paper with the arrow level to the ground. 3yds 9yds 12yds.
> your grip makes a difference big time. All Bows tune unless limbs are swapped or cams are bent or something very unlikely.


Offense Taken.

I have performed that process before posting here. Please read the entire thread.


An update. I installed the winner choice strings last year, and in order to get the cams synced and timed I had to put 22 twists in the buss cable, and take several out of the control cable.

What could cause that to be necessary?


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## TMan51 (Jan 25, 2004)

Stephan C said:


> Given that I had some string creep (because the bottom cam advanced), could it be time for a new set of strings and cables? I think they are the original 2008 fuse set (which may have been junk to start with)


Be careful with that. 2008 rigging is way past it's prime unless you never shoot the bow. A string/cable that goes at full draw is very dangerous.



Stephan C said:


> I installed the winner choice strings last year, and in order to get the cams synced and timed I had to put 22 twists in the buss cable, and take several out of the control cable.
> 
> What could cause that to be necessary?


The string/cables are not the correct length. I have not put 22 turns in the last five sets of rigging combined, cables and strings. 

And to Sonny's comment, there is such a thing as a bum limb. After decades of Hoyts, and not even sure how many bows, my Vector 32 came home with a bum set. I tried everything, notta worked. Then on a whim I numbered the limbs, and swapped them right to left, top to bottom. It didn't actually fix anything, but the problem went from high left flyers and groups, to low right.

I ordered a new set of Pro Arcs, plugged them in, the bow shoots great.

To the original question, I have tried to get more than a couple bows rigged with a WB to shoot for others. Some combinations of speed, spine, etc. just will not give you clean flight. My guess is that Whisker Biscuit has sold more mechanical heads than any other rest.


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