# archers mark



## imott

Does anybody search?

Only iPhone. There is an announcement thread that discusses this.


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## phoenix 36

Hi Buddy,I have been searching,none of the other programs out there are mac friendly and I at one point spoke with some people who were involved with the testing of this new program and I believe I asked them if it would work with my mac book and I thought they said yes.So I just bought it thinking I was at last good to go.Seeing as i-tunes etc is all apple.It is in my i-tunes window but I cant get it to come out and play.
Thank you for your warm and welcomed help.


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## imott

Try searching this forum...

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1065719&highlight=archers+mark

:darkbeer:


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## phoenix 36

will this program run on the 8gb ipod touch and if so can it be transfered from my macbook to said ipod.


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## south-paaw

give it a littl time, im sure pragmatic lee will be along soon enough to answer any q and a; he like this stuff...:darkbeer:

me??... i'm illiterate... i still think cell phones are for phone calls only...:mg:

LOL


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## Macaholic

phoenix 36 said:


> will this program run on the 8gb ipod touch and if so can it be transfered from my macbook to said ipod.


hi, congrats on your interest in the AM application:thumbs_up
I do not have a macbook so I can't really say for sure - Steve/Scott help me out here - but the Archer's Mark is for only iPod or iPhone. You can download through iTunes on your macbook and then sync your iPod to upload the application which should at that point be up and running. It will have a sample bow already loaded which you'll have to enter your info to get marks. Post back up if you still have issues.

Let us know how you like it!
Dave


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## nanayak

south-paaw said:


> give it a littl time, im sure pragmatic lee will be along soon enough to answer any q and a; he like this stuff...:darkbeer:
> 
> me??... i'm illiterate...* i still think cell phones are for phone calls only*...:mg:
> 
> LOL


And maybe a bit more... eh Sweetie??? :hug::kiss:


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## south-paaw

nanayak said:


> And maybe a bit more... eh Sweetie??? :hug::kiss:





PHP:




heheheeeee.....:cell:


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## nanayak

south-paaw said:


> PHP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heheheeeee.....:cell:


:hug::kiss:

:wave:

Hi Sweetie... :secret:


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## pragmatic_lee

Folks for now this application is only for the iPhone & iPod Touch; however, that does not mean that other platforms won't be supported in the future. 

As I've indicated before, I am in the process of writing a Windows version for use on Windows desktops/laptops. Even though the language I am using is "cross-platform" and is supported on Windows, Linux, Apple, etc., the graphical user interface (GUI) and the printing library are Windows specific. Because of that I am giving a lot of consideration to using JAVA as the development language; however, JAVA has a rather steep learning curve and I'm not even out of the foothills yet. 

As Scott has also pointed out, if this application was held in development until all "wishes/wants" were fulfilled, it would never leave the development systems. 

MORE good things are in the works, but they can't all happen at once. :wink:


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## Moparmatty

pragmatic_lee said:


> Folks for now this application is only for the iPhone & iPod Touch; however, that does not mean that other platforms won't be supported in the future.
> 
> As I've indicated before, I am in the process of writing a Windows version for use on Windows desktops/laptops. Even though the language I am using is "cross-platform" and is supported on Windows, Linux, Apple, etc., the graphical user interface (GUI) and the printing library are Windows specific. Because of that I am giving a lot of consideration to using JAVA as the development language; however, JAVA has a rather steep learning curve and I'm not even out of the foothills yet.
> 
> As Scott has also pointed out, if this application was held in development until all "wishes/wants" were fulfilled, it would never leave the development systems.
> 
> MORE good things are in the works, but they can't all happen at once. :wink:


Get to learning the Java Prag! That way it can run on my BlackBerry. :teeth:


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## JawsDad

pragmatic_lee said:


> Folks for now this application is only for the iPhone & iPod Touch; however, that does not mean that other platforms won't be supported in the future.
> 
> As I've indicated before, I am in the process of writing a Windows version for use on Windows desktops/laptops. Even though the language I am using is "cross-platform" and is supported on Windows, Linux, Apple, etc., the graphical user interface (GUI) and the printing library are Windows specific. Because of that I am giving a lot of consideration to using JAVA as the development language; however, JAVA has a rather steep learning curve and I'm not even out of the foothills yet.
> 
> As Scott has also pointed out, if this application was held in development until all "wishes/wants" were fulfilled, it would never leave the development systems.
> 
> MORE good things are in the works, but they can't all happen at once. :wink:


JAVA (or other cross platform option) would be great.. You're a long time computer guy, it shouldn't be that hard to pick up. :wink:

I'd like to try the app, but I refuse to buy an iPhone/iPod. :nono:


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## pragmatic_lee

JawsDad said:


> JAVA (or other cross platform option) would be great.. *You're a long time computer guy*, it shouldn't be that hard to pick up. :wink:
> 
> I'd like to try the app, but I refuse to buy an iPhone/iPod. :nono:


For old dogs new tricks don't always come easy.


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## JawsDad

pragmatic_lee said:


> For old dogs new tricks don't always come easy.


Agreed, I'm getting there more and more every day. :aww:


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## sigrabbit

Macaholic said:


> hi, congrats on your interest in the AM application:thumbs_up
> I do not have a macbook so I can't really say for sure - Steve/Scott help me out here - but the Archer's Mark is for only iPod or iPhone. You can download through iTunes on your macbook and then sync your iPod to upload the application which should at that point be up and running. It will have a sample bow already loaded which you'll have to enter your info to get marks. Post back up if you still have issues.
> 
> Let us know how you like it!
> Dave


I downloaded and have it set up. Still need to see how accurate it is. When measuring peep to arrow, do you measure from center of peep to center of arrow?


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## pragmatic_lee

sigrabbit said:


> I downloaded and have it set up. Still need to see how accurate it is. When measuring peep to arrow, do you measure from center of peep to center of arrow?


Yes - center to center. And remember, when measuring from peep to sight, measure to the lens or pin position, NOT the center of the scope.

And as far as accuracy, if you test this against AA & OT2, you'll most likely find that the AM marks fall right in between them.


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## Moparmatty

JawsDad said:


> Agreed, I'm getting there more and more every day. :aww:


What older? Or learning new tricks?


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## sigrabbit

pragmatic_lee said:


> Yes - center to center. And remember, when measuring from peep to sight, measure to the lens or pin position, NOT the center of the scope.
> 
> And as far as accuracy, if you test this against AA & OT2, you'll most likely find that the AM marks fall right in between them.


Thanks. I assumed the measurement points, but could not find any specifics on "How to." I plan on testing the accuracy this week. I set my marks at 30 and 50 yards based upon recommendations I found on this site, but based upon other programs. The posts indicated that you would get more accurate calculations that using a 20yd mark. Is it the same for AM?


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## pragmatic_lee

sigrabbit said:


> Thanks. I assumed the measurement points, but could not find any specifics on "How to." I plan on testing the accuracy this week. I set my marks at 30 and 50 yards.


Did you try the "Help" button? If you have any questions, don't mind asking them here or via a PM.


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## sigrabbit

pragmatic_lee said:


> Did you try the "Help" button? If you have any questions, don't mind asking them here or via a PM.


That would be too easy. I didn't even notice one...lol


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## Macaholic

sigrabbit said:


> Thanks. I assumed the measurement points, but could not find any specifics on "How to." I plan on testing the accuracy this week. I set my marks at 30 and 50 yards based upon recommendations I found on this site, but based upon other programs. The posts indicated that you would get more accurate calculations that using a 20yd mark. Is it the same for AM?


a cool feature of Archer's Marks is you can 'modify' your original shot in mark. If it then holds to be more accurate you can select a global change to update all your marks! and not just your original shot-in mark, it can be any distance.

I think you'll find the application to be very complex...yet easy to learn and use


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## Scott.Barrett

Macaholic said:


> a cool feature of Archer's Marks is you can 'modify' your original shot in mark. If it then holds to be more accurate you can select a global change to update all your marks! and not just your original shot-in mark, it can be any distance.
> 
> I think you'll find the application to be very complex...yet easy to learn and use


Can you explain how to do this? We were trying this weekend and we couldn't figure out how to do this....

SB


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## sigrabbit

After you have your marks set and a card, hit the edit button on the right at the yardage you want to micromanage.


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## Diane Watson

We did that but nothing happens... :sad:


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## pragmatic_lee

Diane Watson said:


> We did that but nothing happens... :sad:


OK Diane, I'll type real slow: :wink:

On mine I have the following shot in marks:
20 yard 19.10
60 yard 46.60

This gives me a mark of 31.60 for 40 yards, but let's say I've found that 31.75 works better.

So to the right of the 40 yard line, I tap the "edit" button.
That shows me a screen with the Current Mark of 31.60 displayed at the top. Now, I tap the 31.60 and enter 31.75.

If I now tap the "accept" button, the "mod" mark of 31.75 will be shown in red in the mod column next to the calculated mark of 31.60.


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## pragmatic_lee

pragmatic_lee said:


> On mine I have the following shot in marks:
> 20 yard 19.10
> 60 yard 46.60
> 
> This gives me a mark of 31.60 for 40 yards, but let's say I've found that 31.75 works better.
> 
> So to the right of the 40 yard line, I tap the "edit" button.
> That shows me a screen with the Current Mark of 31.60 displayed at the top. Now, I tap the 31.60 and enter 31.75.
> 
> If I now tap the "accept" button, the "mod" mark of 31.75 will be shown in red in the mod column next to the calculated mark of 31.60.


Please allow me to "correct" my previous post.


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## BowDadToo

*Random comments from an Archer's Mark developer*

Wow, thank you all for the excellent discussion. 

I'll shotgun out several answers all at once.

Will this work on a Macbook? Frankly speaking the core ballistics and scope marks generation code is written entirely in C. Once we got this engine producing solid trustworthy works then we wrapped the iPhone interface around it. Two console versions exist, one runs on OSX and the other Windows. Beyond Prag and I this code will likely NOT see the light of day. Why, because the user interface is only something a DOS or Linux person could love. That said, Prag and I are working on a Windows version designed to very specifically print out a marks card so you can tote around a hard-copy backup in your quiver just in case. Will we release a version for OSX, perhaps, since you asked I've now added it to the list.

Will Archer's Mark work on a Gen1 8GB iPod Touch? Yes, if it is upgraded to OS 3. This is what both Prag and my son use.

All setup measurements are from center to center in inches. When measuring peep to pin pick a point on the exterior of your scope that aligns with your pin and use that. The more accurate your measurements the better AM's results.

Setup marks, near and far. We suggest you use 20 yards and 50 yards, but we've had some testers using 20 yards and 80 yards. If your two marks are too close together your high end results will suffer. For example if you use a 20 yard and a 40 yard, your mark at 80 yards will likely be less precise then say a 20 and a 50. Also support for multiple shot-ins (3 additional) allows you to pull up or down your marks curve in the event things appear slightly off. As far as we know AA, TAP and others don't support this type of feature. 

We tapped "Edit" on a row and nothing happened? Hum, we made the touchable region for each "Edit" button as large as we could without having them overlap.  When you touch the button it should briefly go dark, the button that is, then the screen should roll to the right for that yardage. Have you seen this happen at all?

Versions, the original version was 1.0 and it came out on 11/16. Last week Version 1.1 went live and it fixed a bug concerning deleting the 20 yard shot-in mark, but it introduced a minor new bug in that the splash screen is now blank as is the info screen. This is due to a flaw in the iPhone simulator that we discovered after 1.1 went live. Version 1.11 with the splash/i-button fix was posted to Apple Monday morning and should be available in the next day or two. Sorry for the version confusion.

Diane, if you're still having problems with the "Edit" button send me a PM with your phone number and I'll walk you through it.

--Scott


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## pragmatic_lee

Scott,
Just sent you a couple of emails this morning concerning a couple of items I found in some "weird" situations (that's why I'm a good tester - if it can be broke, I can probably find a way) :wink:

Call me, if you didn't get the emails.

Also, just got off the phone with Mac - I think he may have realized something about what Diane was saying that neither of us picked up on. Call me when you can and I'll discuss it with you.


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## BowDadToo

*Bug verified, solution outlined, coding started.*

Prag, 

Under your suggestion, we confirmed that there is another bug. We're addressing that tonight and a fix should be posted to Apple very likely in the next day or two as version 1.12. 

Here is the exact problem. We range check all the values we're given when you setup a new bow. For example an arrow can't weigh 5 grains and you can't have a peep to pin value of say 90 inches. We were not range checking user typed in shot-in marks and angles. Both these values have other calculations that utilize them so their integrity is important and we somehow overlooked validating them. 

From now on cut angle values have to be between 1 and 50 and shot-in marks can not deviate by more than 10% from the computed mark for that range. A value of blank was translating to zero, this will now also be addressed.

Prag, you're correct, there was value to getting AM out prior to the outdoor season so some of the bleeding edge crowd can help us shake out these annoying little bugs.


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## Canjapan2003

*shibuya dual click setting*

I've been using another PC based program to get sight marks for my oly recurve. The values I've been using for the Shibuya DC sight are 
10 clicks per turn. 
vertical movement is .008" per click so how do I enter those values in AM. 


By the way it looks like a really cool app and if you can relase it on the Japanese itunes store, when I show it around next sunday I'm sure it will get some hits for you.


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## BowDadToo

*Shibuya DC Support*

So 10 clicks per turn with 0.008" per click means 0.08"/turn or 12.5 threads/inch. We currently support 24 and 32 threads/inch along with something slightly different for the Spot Hogg line.

We didn't think many of the recurve guys would be interested so we didn't go out of our way to support this class of sight. It frankly wouldn't be hard to do as it's almost half of 24 threads/inch 10 click which we already support. This will likely be added in one of the future point releases.

Thank you.


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## BowDadToo

*Availability in Japan*

Actually I checked all the geographies when we released Archer's Mark so it's not only available in the US and Canada, but everywhere else that Apple's iTunes Store reaches. Thus far in three weeks we've had sales in over a dozen countries world wide.


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## Canjapan2003

Cool about the iTunes. 
The recurve crowd is alot bigger than the compound crowd over here in general. It's all FITA field courses too if that makes a difference for any scoring stuff in the app.
You might want to promote it on face books IOAG (international open archery group).


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## BowDadToo

*Version 1.11 Available*

Guys,

For those that noticed that the info button and the splash screen was missing in version 1.1, Apple today release Version 1.11 which resolves this problem.

Also Apple selected "Archer's Mark" yesterday as a "New and Noteworthy" application and featured us on the iTunes homepage right under the big splash add.

Version 1.12 is being submitted tonight, we needed 1.11 to get out the door first, this version has some added error checking so people can't put in unrealistic shot-in marks or cut angles. 

The next major version 1.2 is in the works, and we're looking to add printing support via email. More details will follow.

--Scott


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## Spoon13

Just bought AM today. Played with it a little bit bit haven't actually loaded any of my bows into it yet. This might even work for us chewies. I'll let you know if I find any problems or questions.

One issue I have with mine is that when I touch the "i" symbol for the info screen, it shows me a blank screen. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BowDadToo

*Blank info screen*

Yeah, this fix was published by Apple today (Ver. 1.11) so if you update AM tonight or tomorrow this should no longer be an issue. Sorry.

--Scott


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## imott

Cannot seem to get iTunes to download the update. 

It shows the progress bar for download complete. But never updates that app.

Trying to update via the iPhone, had the same result.


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## NockOn

Who do we contact for suggestions?


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## BowDadToo

*Downloading Version 1.11 and Suggestions*

Apple's servers claim the 1.11 update is available, but they are only serving up Version 1.1. I've validated this several different ways. Since 1.11 was released today it may take till tomorrow morning for 1.11 to make it to all of Apple's servers. Sorry everyone. I'll confirm this again in the morning.

Suggestions, you can post them publicly here or send me a PM. To see a current list of what we're working on or considering you're welcome to visit our wishlist page. We welcome all ideas and suggestions.


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## BowDadToo

*Downloading Version 1.11*

The version 1.11 update/download now completes and installs properly. Good luck, and thank you all.



imott said:


> Cannot seem to get iTunes to download the update.
> 
> It shows the progress bar for download complete. But never updates that app.
> 
> Trying to update via the iPhone, had the same result.


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## NockOn

BowDadToo said:


> Suggestions, you can post them publicly here or send me a PM. To see a current list of what we're working on or considering you're welcome to visit our wishlist page. We welcome all ideas and suggestions.


I like some of the items on the wish list particularly the FITA Support. But I would like the added support for FITA field. From 5 meters to 60 meters in 5 meters increments. FITA field is not very popular in North America but tons of people shoot it across the pond.

The second thing I would like to see is to have the option to set my 2 marks in Meters vs Yards. The range I shoot at is only laid out in Meters (FITA 1440 Field)


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## BowDadToo

*Setup in Meters*

For setup marks, you should be able to use a near range of 25 meters, just enter it as 27.33 yards. Then for your far mark use 50 meters and enter it as 54.66 yards and that should work. I just tested it on my iPhone and the numbers appear to line up pretty well. 

Please let me know if these ranges work for you as setup ranges? Then I'll post this to our FAQ so other metric shooters will have a better idea of what to do until we have time to revisit using metric within setup. 

I'll look into your FITA suggestion further, we're continually working to improve the application.

Thanks again for your support.

--Scott


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## NockOn

I won't be able to really test it until spring. Too much white stuff on the ground here:zip:


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## drockw

Just got the app! Very cool indeed as I hate using aa to generate tapes. 

One feature that I would really like is to have a generic arrow spine system. Just an idea tho. Cool program.


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## pragmatic_lee

*AM makes front page of iTunes store*


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## Canjapan2003

just looked at the wish list and I'm glad to hear my request for Shibuya DC support was taken seriously. 
Once that and metric field capability are added I'll happily shell out for the app. 
If you need someone to help with language support for a Japanese version let me know.


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## pragmatic_lee

Canjapan2003 said:


> just looked at the wish list and I'm glad to hear my request for Shibuya DC support was taken seriously.
> Once that and metric field capability are added I'll happily shell out for the app.
> If you need someone to help with language support for a Japanese version let me know.


Honestly, I think all serious requests that fall withing the scope of AT will be taken seriously. And Japanese language support might be a good idea as well. Thanks!


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## JawsDad

I just truly joined the dark side... Forget all the talk of Mathews vs. Hoyt vs Bowtech vs. Martin vs. Elite vs. etc etc etc...

I just truly went over.. WAY OVER.. For Christmas I got an iPhone. :faint:


I've been a Microsoft guy for years. Be it, user, developer, fanboy, you name it.. I was it.  But, I've succumbed to the fact that the iPhone is the better smartphone on the market. I still carry my Crackberry for work but, for the most part, the iPhone does kick it's arse.. 

But, on the good side, at least now I can try out the Archers Mark..


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## VA Vince

*IPOD Touch*

I have a Gen2 8 gig IPOD Touch for sale. I have had it for about 4 months and just got a new Nano. I like the Nano better so I am asking $175 for it. It has not been registered and I have unused headphones and everything that it came with when bought. Also a silicone case and the FM car adapter. I can get back faster by email @ [email protected]

Vince


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## BowDadToo

JawsDad said:


> But, on the good side, at least now I can try out the Archers Mark..


Best of luck to you, it's a great little computer that also has a pretty good phone attached.

If you have any questions or problems with AM, please post them here or send me a PM.

Happy Holidays.


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## drockw

JawsDad said:


> I just truly joined the dark side... Forget all the talk of Mathews vs. Hoyt vs Bowtech vs. Martin vs. Elite vs. etc etc etc...
> 
> I just truly went over.. WAY OVER.. For Christmas I got an iPhone. :faint:
> 
> 
> I've been a Microsoft guy for years. Be it, user, developer, fanboy, you name it.. I was it. But, I've succumbed to the fact that the iPhone is the better smartphone on the market. I still carry my Crackberry for work but, for the most part, the iPhone does kick it's arse..
> 
> But, on the good side, at least now I can try out the Archers Mark..


I'm tellin ya, I seriously think the iPhone is one if the best things I have ever bought. I'm never bored anymore


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## BowDadToo

*On Droid*

Guys,

For reasons I don't want to go into here, I ended up spending several hours yesterday in a Verizon store. It gave me time to talk with several techs that owned the Droid. With each one I asked the most important question, have you ever BOUGHT an app for your Droid? They all shared the same scary answer, NO. This is why we're not considering doing anything on the Blackberry as well. These two groups of users have not yet felt comfortable making the leap in trust to begin buying apps.

I get several mobile newsletters and as such we'll continue to follow how the other two stores are doing. If/when their users begin to trust those stores and spend money then we'll seriously consider investing in developing AM for those platforms.

--Scott


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## BowDadToo

*One dot twelve (1.12)*

Yesterday afternoon Apple released Archer's Mark 1.12 as a free upgrade for all customers who purchased a prior version. This version resolves the remaining bugs reported by users. We also improved user input validation so you can no longer enter grossly invalid marks or cut angles.

Thank you all for your support, and here's to hoping we shoot all Xs in the new year.

--Scott


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## Moparmatty

Build it for the BlackBerry and they will come!


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## JawsDad

Moparmatty said:


> Build it for the BlackBerry and they will come!


Ditch the blackberry.. Trust me, you don't know what you're missing.. And you have no idea how much it pains me to give Apple credit for ANYTHING.. It almost makes me want to chop off my fingers for typing it..


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## VA Vince

JawsDad said:


> Ditch the blackberry.. Trust me, you don't know what you're missing.. And you have no idea how much it pains me to give Apple credit for ANYTHING.. It almost makes me want to chop off my fingers for typing it..


AT&T's signal is poo! Thats the only reason I dont have one. I love my BB but I have been looking at the Droid, not sure about it though. I have the IPOD touch and never even downloaded an app on it.


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## Brown Hornet

JawsDad said:


> Ditch the blackberry.. Trust me, you don't know what you're missing.. And you have no idea how much it pains me to give Apple credit for ANYTHING.. It almost makes me want to chop off my fingers for typing it..


What Vince said.....the only good thing about the iphone is all the apps.....AT&Ts service SUCKS. Round these parts Verizon is King for service....


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## Scott.Barrett

Brown Hornet said:


> What Vince said.....the only good thing about the iphone is all the apps.....AT&Ts service SUCKS. Round these parts Verizon is King for service....


Same thing here...what good is an iPhone if it doesn't work anywhere?!?!


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## JawsDad

Brown Hornet said:


> What Vince said.....the only good thing about the iphone is all the apps.....AT&Ts service SUCKS. Round these parts Verizon is King for service....


Guess we're lucky around here. I carry a Verizon and AT&T device. I get the same service with both.. My Sprint device really sucked, that's why it became Verizon to begin with..


But you're right, the apps make the phone. Unfortunately, BB just hasn't embraced the App world as much. To a large degree, that's probably due to corporate control. Since RIM developed BB for the corporate world initially, BB's tied into servers are controlled a lot more tightly then other smartphones.

I started doing BB development on an app for my company. I just found that it's just not the best environment to develop all things considered.


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## drockw

Scott.Barrett said:


> Same thing here...what good is an iPhone if it doesn't work anywhere?!?!


AT&T everywhere here so it's a no brainer. I had a bb and the iPhone blows it away for ME!

Anyways, I got to use the program today finally and it's really cool! I got a 20 and 70 set, and it was accurate all the way to 88(as far as I can get). 

Really neat and will definately be handy to have!!!


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## BowDadToo

*Archery Magazine (Dec/Jan)*

This months issue, in mailboxes today, has a article titled "Archery. There's an App for That!" on page 27. It covers AM as well as several other programs for scoring, info and games.

If you don't get Archery Magazine, the article is here:
http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/ArcheryMagazineDecJan2010.pdf

Enjoy!


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## Brown Hornet

Good write up Scott :thumb:

I got mine yesterday.  The mag looks great by the way for those that haven't gotten it yet or either haven't looked at.....:wink:


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## Scott.Barrett

Scott.Barrett said:


> Same thing here...what good is an iPhone if it doesn't work anywhere?!?!


I went and got a Droid....so when can I get a Droid version?????


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## BowDadToo

*Droid version*



Scott.Barrett said:


> I went and got a Droid....so when can I get a Droid version?????


We'd love to have a version for Android, especially given Google's announcement today of their new "Google" branded iPhone Killer. 

Android support is on our list, but we're not yet prepared to estimate when, sorry.


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## DarkFORCE

One thing I would like in this program is support for Larger Arrows.

I am currently shooting 2712 with 275gr points. AA shows my arrow weight around 706gr but max in AM is 500. Also the max dia is .4 and 2712 are .421.

Normally I shoot smaller arrows but I am practicing for Vegas. The reason I would like this support is after practicing for a while my 5 year old little girls loves walking the field range. So I take her and now walk up almost ever target to shoot around the 20yd mark. It would be nice to shoot stuff say 15-45 yards so I don't need to walk up on all the targets.

Thanks.


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## BowDadToo

*Larger arrow support*

When we selected those parameters our mindset was outdoor arrows which are often thinner arrows.

We have a number of small fixes for 1.2 that have already been developed & tested. We'll bump both these arrow limits up and issue a new update soon. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## IGluIt4U

BowDad, one question, after gettin it this weekend and playing around a bit... 

I shoot in my two marks, but I want to 'fine tune' along the way with additional marks... how do I do that? (are my new 'shot in marks' replacing my original 'long and short marks'? 

There is not an option on the mark edit screen to change this to a 'shot in mark'.. this would be nice.  :noidea:

Oh, and thanks to the Archer's Mark team this weekend.. you guys are the best.. great seein ya'll and hope to see you all at the Hillbilly this year... :cheers: :thumb:

Great job on the program!! :yo:

Oh.. and Dad.. ya gotta change yer title to the "Some_X_Eddie Shootin Team" now, eh???


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## BowDadToo

*Shotin Marks within AM*

In setup you're required to supply a near and far mark. We suggest 20 yards and 50 yards. These values can ONLY be changed within setup. 

Additionally, if you go into edit on a row for a range smaller than your near mark range you can NOT make it a shot-in mark, if you were this would very likely screw up all the marks within parallax, hence this is not permitted.

AM supports a total of three additional shot-in marks on top of the two you use within setup. We figured most shooters would use 20 yards and 50 yards for setup. Establish another solid shot-in mark at 35 yards that they really trust and this would further "tune" all the marks from 20 through 50. They could then practice their 70 or 80 yard shot until they get a really sold mark here, add that as their second additional shot-in and this would give them a very robust marks curve.

If you really had time, and space, for giggles you could actually put another shot-in at say 110 yards and you'd have a fantastic curve.

Does this clarify things a bit?

It was great meeting you this weekend, and we'll very likely be shoot'n with Prag and Roz at the Hillbilly this year.

Thanks again for your support,
Scott


----------



## pschultheis

First off, I LOVE ARCHERS MARK!! One less piece of equipment to carry around. 

That being said a couple of concerns/suggestions, hope this is the spot.

1. When I use the clinometer or just insert the angle for say 50 yards when I return to the screen with the marks its all the way back on the top. Sure would be nice not to have to scroll all the way down to 50 again.

2. I would love to be able to create marks for other distances. For example real short stuff. Some of the novelty shots include 6 foot, 12 foot and 15 foot targets. I would love to be able to not have to refer to a cheat sheet.

Thanks for listening and great product.

Paul


----------



## IGluIt4U

BowDadToo said:


> In setup you're required to supply a near and far mark. We suggest 20 yards and 50 yards. These values can ONLY be changed within setup.
> 
> Additionally, if you go into edit on a row for a range smaller than your near mark range you can NOT make it a shot-in mark, if you were this would very likely screw up all the marks within parallax, hence this is not permitted.
> 
> AM supports a total of three additional shot-in marks on top of the two you use within setup. We figured most shooters would use 20 yards and 50 yards for setup. Establish another solid shot-in mark at 35 yards that they really trust and this would further "tune" all the marks from 20 through 50. They could then practice their 70 or 80 yard shot until they get a really sold mark here, add that as their second additional shot-in and this would give them a very robust marks curve.
> 
> If you really had time, and space, for giggles you could actually put another shot-in at say 110 yards and you'd have a fantastic curve.
> 
> Does this clarify things a bit?
> 
> It was great meeting you this weekend, and we'll very likely be shoot'n with Prag and Roz at the Hillbilly this year.
> 
> Thanks again for your support,
> Scott


Scott,

Thanks for the explanation.. I think in my messin around, I was trying to enter a shorter than the 'shot in' short mark, now that I've played again, I can see that I do have the ability to add a few more 'shot in' marks beyond the short mark.. that was my confusion. :embara:

Great to meet you this weekend as well, you have all done an awesome job bringing this product to the Archery world.. thanks to all and hope you make it up for the Hillbilly.. it's like LAS on steroids... :chortle: :thumb: :cheers:


----------



## Brown Hornet

Scott....it was great meeting and talking to you this weekend 

Thanks for taking the time to talk and explain/answer my questions :darkbeer: There will be an itouch in the quiver this summer for sure :thumb:

after going back and reading some things last night and today....one thing I would recommend to give even more accurate marks...at least with my experience with the other programs....is to NOT use a 20yd mark as one of your marks. I usually use 30-40 yd and something in the 50-65 yd range. Reason being is that a shooters margin of error at 20yds is HUGE in comparison to say 30 or 40 yds. It will give you a much more accurate set of marks much faster without the need to "tweak" them much later if at all if you don't change something else in your tune.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Brown Hornet said:


> Scott....it was great meeting and talking to you this weekend
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to talk and explain/answer my questions :darkbeer: There will be an itouch in the quiver this summer for sure :thumb:
> 
> after going back and reading some things last night and today....one thing I would recommend to give even more accurate marks...at least with my experience with the other programs....is to NOT use a 20yd mark as one of your marks. I usually use 30-40 yd and something in the 50-65 yd range. Reason being is that a shooters margin of error at 20yds is HUGE in comparison to say 30 or 40 yds. It will give you a much more accurate set of marks much faster without the need to "tweak" them much later if at all if you don't change something else in your tune.


Or "if" you're going to use 20, but sure you're grouping the arrows in the X ring - not just the 5 ring.


----------



## Macaholic

Brown Hornet said:


> after going back and reading some things last night and today....one thing I would recommend to give even more accurate marks...at least with my experience with the other programs....is to NOT use a 20yd mark as one of your marks.


Scott is the best person to anwser this but if I remember correctly...
...the reason to use a 20yd as 1 (you can use 5 that generate the curve for all marks) of your 'shot-in' marks...
is you cannot create a 'shot-in' mark at less distance than 20 yards...why?...the ballistics curve gets more complicated at short distance because of paralax. you would have to be spot-on to get a good mark...unfortunatly...not many of us are
so the choice was to limit input on the short side.

a good set might include: 20yd, 30yd, 50yd, 65yd, 80yd...use these as shot-in marks to get your curve.

tune that apple well....and maybe get another release


----------



## BowDadToo

*Setup & Shot-in Marks*

Brown Hornet, Macaholic is correct. You can NOT have a shot-in inside of the Near Mark you used for setup. So if you use say a 30yd and a 50yd and you find that your marks at 10-15yd are weak you've got no way to fix it.

Most bow/archer combinations see the marks curve reach it's lowest point at something like 11 yards due to parallax error. If I recall both TAP and AA suggest you use 20yd, and we've found through testing that if you can get a solid X grouping at 20 that mark will yield the best results for your near mark. 

On the far mark some of our guys like 50 yards because they can comfortably build a nice grouping in the 5 ring at this point. On the other hand we've got Roz spending a considerable amount of time drilling Xs at 80yds for practice so his 80 marks is really strong. In testing he used a 20/80 combo which also produced nice results. This was prior to us supporting three additional shot-ins.

Unlike AA and TAP, the combination of two shot-ins in setup along with up to three additional shot-ins allows you to have a really robust marks curve if you can take the time to generate the necessary TRUSTWORTHY data points. As any kid in Algebra will tell you a curve with 5 data points will likely yield more accurate results then one built on two.

Thanks again for all your help and support.


----------



## Moparmatty

Macaholic said:


> tune that apple well....and maybe get another release


:chortle:


----------



## jlbell

Ok after doing some reading i cant find a answer to my question so ill post here and see if anyone knows.

Ok if i purchase Archers Mark can that 1 copy be used for both my wifes Iphone and my Ipod Touch ?

i didnt know if you had to sign up each copy you purchase or what was done to get future updates and such.


----------



## DarkFORCE

jlbell said:


> Ok after doing some reading i cant find a answer to my question so ill post here and see if anyone knows.
> 
> Ok if i purchase Archers Mark can that 1 copy be used for both my wifes Iphone and my Ipod Touch ?
> 
> i didnt know if you had to sign up each copy you purchase or what was done to get future updates and such.


If you use the same iTunes account to sync yes. There are ways if you don't but not sure if you should from license issues etc.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Multiple AM users under a single purchase*

As mentioned if you and your wife both use the same itunes account then you only need to buy it once. This is Apple's dirty little secret. ALL content is licensed it appears to the iTunes account. Then up to five devices can be registered with that account, all five have access to the same content. 

For example my Macbook Pro (MBP) running iTunes is one device, my iPhone is the second and my son's iPod touch is the third. If he buys a game from his iTouch, I can load it on my iPhone for free and run it. Songs, movies, etc... run on the MBP, hence the reason it's counted as a device.

--Scott


----------



## GOT LUCKY

IGluIt4U said:


> Scott,
> 
> Thanks for the explanation.. I think in my messin around, I was trying to enter a shorter than the 'shot in' short mark, now that I've played again, I can see that I do have the ability to add a few more 'shot in' marks beyond the short mark.. that was my confusion. :embara:
> 
> Great to meet you this weekend as well, you have all done an awesome job bringing this product to the Archery world.. thanks to all and hope you make it up for the Hillbilly.. it's like LAS on steroids... :chortle: :thumb: :cheers:


*Something tells me AM is going to get a real workout at the Hillbilly this year!!!!

Kinda like those Salt Flats used to be for fast cars....the "Billy Hill" will be for FAST ARROWS!!!!

QUESTION: Can it store more than one bow's marks??? *

.


----------



## Spoon13

got lucky said:


> *something tells me am is going to get a real workout at the hillbilly this year!!!!
> 
> Kinda like those salt flats used to be for fast cars....the "billy hill" will be for fast arrows!!!!
> 
> question: Can it store more than one bow's marks??? *
> 
> .


Yes!!!


----------



## BowDadToo

*Posting multiple bow marks*

The easiest way to keep a second set of marks for a bow, or even a bow/course is to use the duplicate bow feature. 

Go into Setup, tap Select Bow. Then tap edit on the bow you want to duplicate. On the bottom center of the Spec page for that bow you'll see the duplicate button, tap that. You will now be returned to the Select page. Tap "Edit" on the duplicated bow and name it say "Got Lucky - DCWC". You will then have a new bow configuration that is identical to the prior "Got Lucky" bow. 

Now when you get into Roz's back yard (DCWC) you can then enter all his crazy cut angles for the tower target, and those down in the valleys.

--Scott


----------



## GOT LUCKY

BowDadToo said:


> The easiest way to keep a second set of marks for a bow, or even a bow/course is to use the duplicate bow feature.
> 
> Go into Setup, tap Select Bow. Then tap edit on the bow you want to duplicate. On the bottom center of the Spec page for that bow you'll see the duplicate button, tap that. You will now be returned to the Select page. Tap "Edit" on the duplicated bow and name it say "Got Lucky - DCWC". You will then have a new bow configuration that is identical to the prior "Got Lucky" bow.
> 
> Now when you get into Roz's back yard (DCWC) you can then enter all his crazy cut angles for the tower target, and those down in the valleys.
> 
> --Scott



*Morning Sweetie.....

What I was wondering is can you have 2 different bow's specs. set -up in it and then have seperate marks for each one depending which one you want to shoot and where you are shooting?? 

anddddd....how many marks per bow can you store in it if you made adjustments on a specific course???? :grin:

*

.


----------



## slickrickjr57

*Am*

Can you use the slope thing with an ipod touch?, or just the i phone. Also, how do you print out copies of the marks?


----------



## IGluIt4U

slickrickjr57 said:


> Can you use the slope thing with an ipod touch?, or just the i phone. Also, how do you print out copies of the marks?


Yes, the itouch does support the 'inclinometer' function. My touch has a level app to make sure all my pics is hangin straight on the wall.. :chortle: :chortle:

For now, you 'email' them to your email account and can print them from there. It was my understanding that some new features and functions are being developed to further enhance this.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

slickrickjr57 said:


> Can you use the slope thing with an ipod touch?, or just the i phone. Also, how do you print out copies of the marks?


Rick,
Yes the iPod Touch has the clinometer just like the iPhone. On the Setup screen there is a Print button. This will produce a PDF document of the marks for the bow selected. It will then prompt you for an email address to send the document to. 

I will see if I can produce one an attach it to this thread in a few minutes.

Prag


----------



## X Hunter

pragmatic_lee said:


> Rick,
> Yes the iPod Touch has the clinometer just like the iPhone. On the Setup screen there is a Print button. This will produce a PDF document of the marks for the bow selected. It will then prompt you for an email address to send the document to.
> 
> I will see if I can produce one an attach it to this thread in a few minutes.
> 
> Prag


So lee when you gonna buy me a touch so I can try this thing out??


----------



## IGluIt4U

X Hunter said:


> So lee when you gonna buy me a touch so I can try this thing out??


C'mon man, git off some of that Bud money.. :chortle: :wink:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

X Hunter said:


> So lee when you gonna buy me a touch so I can try this thing out??


I didn't take you to raise. :wink: BUT, if you happen upon a LH "apple", we might could work something out. :tongue:

Attached is a PDF of a test bow's data that I just created.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

IGluIt4U said:


> C'mon man, git off some of that Bud money.. :chortle: :wink:


I got to hand it to the "kid" - he's learned what real :beer: is.


----------



## X Hunter

pragmatic_lee said:


> I didn't take you to raise. :wink: BUT, if you happen upon a LH "apple", we might could work something out. :tongue:
> 
> Attached is a PDF of a test bow's data that I just created.


Hmmm let me check around



IGluIt4U said:


> C'mon man, git off some of that Bud money.. :chortle: :wink:


your not serious are you :wink:



pragmatic_lee said:


> I got to hand it to the "kid" - he's learned what real :beer: is.


MMMMMM tasty:darkbeer:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

IGluIt4U said:


> Yes, the itouch does support the 'inclinometer' function. My touch has a level app to make sure all my pics is hangin straight on the wall.. :chortle: :chortle:
> 
> For now, you 'email' them to your email account and can print them from there. *It was my understanding that some new features and functions are being developed to further enhance this*.


Wonder where you could have heard something like that? :wink: Actually Scott and I discussed this some more last night. The problem with creating a sight "tape" and emailing it as a PDF is that not all printers will render a PDF to the same scale that it was created. Remember, a PDF is actually just an "image" of the data it represents.

We discussed creating a stand alone program; but the problem with that is that you got 2 different engines doing the same thing - thus 2 of everything to have to maintain. 

I have a program written already that will produce a sight tape - just got some tweaking to do.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

GOT LUCKY said:


> *Morning Sweetie.....
> 
> What I was wondering is can you have 2 different bow's specs. set -up in it and then have seperate marks for each one depending which one you want to shoot and where you are shooting??
> 
> anddddd....how many marks per bow can you store in it if you made adjustments on a specific course???? :grin:
> 
> *
> 
> .


Lucky dear - you're talking in circles again - please rephrase your question(s) and type real slow this time so maybe I/we can understand what you're asking. Or better yet, just trust us. :wink:


----------



## Moparmatty

X Hunter said:


> So lee when you gonna buy me a touch so I can try this thing out??


Get Bobby to buy you one. He's the one that won all the 50/50 money at LAS.


----------



## IGluIt4U

pragmatic_lee said:


> Lucky dear - you're talking in circles again - please rephrase your question(s) and type real slow this time so maybe I/we can understand what you're asking. Or better yet, just trust us. :wink:


I dare not try to interpret, but.. what the heck.. :mg: :lol:

Let's say I take two different bows around, depending on my mood, I may shoot one or the other.. at differing events.. 

The duplicate bow feature will allow me to 'copy' one setup. Can I now alter the specs on that setup? (cause of course, my backup bow is a Mystic and my primary is a Shadowcat) and then, can I apply modifications to the 'curve' of each for shot in marks on different courses and save them? If so, how many?

Make sense? 

Disclaimer - I do not pretend to fully understand Luckyese, this is just a personal interpretation of the original question.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

IGluIt4U said:


> I dare not try to interpret, but.. what the heck.. :mg: :lol:
> 
> Let's say I take two different bows around, depending on my mood, I may shoot one or the other.. at differing events..
> 
> The duplicate bow feature will allow me to 'copy' one setup. Can I now alter the specs on that setup? (cause of course, my backup bow is a Mystic and my primary is a Shadowcat) and then, can I apply modifications to the 'curve' of each for shot in marks on different courses and save them? If so, how many?
> 
> Make sense?
> 
> Disclaimer - I do not pretend to fully understand Luckyese, this is just a personal interpretation of the original question.


At one time there was discussion on the max number of bows that could be store. The number was 10, but I don't think that was every imposed - I just duplicated my bow 13 times for a total of 14 bows.

Anyway, lets say there's some max number  of bows - each and every one of these entries can be the same bow configured n different ways OR it could be n different bows. Each and every entry is entirely a different entity. If one of those entries has a 12 degree down angle recorded for 40 yards - it will only be applicable to that one entry. Now if you duplicate that entry, the angle mark is going to be duplicated as well; BUT, you can remove that angle from either the master or the duplicate and it will not effect the other.

Clear as mud now? :wink:


----------



## IGluIt4U

pragmatic_lee said:


> At one time there was discussion on the max number of bows that could be store. The number was 10, but I don't think that was every imposed - I just duplicated my bow 13 times for a total of 14 bows.
> 
> Anyway, lets say there's some max number  of bows - each and every one of these entries can be the same bow configured n different ways OR it could be n different bows. Each and every entry is entirely a different entity. If one of those entries has a 12 degree down angle recorded for 40 yards - it will only be applicable to that one entry. Now if you duplicate that entry, the angle mark is going to be duplicated as well; BUT, you can remove that angle from either the master or the duplicate and it will not effect the other.
> 
> Clear as mud now? :wink:


For me? Yes.. .for Lucky????? :noidea: 

Ok, so.. I can 'duplicate a setup' and alter it if my peep location is a bit different, or my sight bar is extended a bit more than the other bow, yes? So effectively I can have a record of marks for two or more different bows, or shooting curves for one bow if I can ever find a place that the 'normal curve' I use is off, yes? (I can see traveling to an area of differing altitude, or relative humidity which could have some adverse affect on my marks) (Like.. Alaska's spring season and Hawaii's fall season?? ) :tongue: :wink:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

IGluIt4U said:


> For me? Yes.. .for Lucky????? :noidea:
> 
> Ok, so.. I can 'duplicate a setup' and alter it if my peep location is a bit different, or my sight bar is extended a bit more than the other bow, yes? So effectively I can have a record of marks for two or more different bows, or shooting curves for one bow if I can ever find a place that the 'normal curve' I use is off, yes? (I can see traveling to an area of differing altitude, or relative humidity which could have some adverse affect on my marks) (Like.. Alaska's spring season and Hawaii's fall season?? ) :tongue: :wink:


Lets say that you set up your Mystic will all your existing data. Now you go from your ACC arrows to those new ACG arrows that have a different diameter and weight. 

You have 2 choices:
1) Duplicate the Mystic, giving it a new name that reflects the different arrows. Change the arrow data and your sight in marks (they will be different with the heavier/lighter arrow). Your peep height and sight distance hasn't changed in this case.

2) Simple create a "new" entry.

Now you decide to set up your Scepter - there's not much benefit in duplicating the bow since every parameter will be different so just add a new bow.


----------



## IGluIt4U

pragmatic_lee said:


> Lets say that you set up your Mystic will all your existing data. Now you go from your ACC arrows to those new ACG arrows that have a different diameter and weight.
> 
> You have 2 choices:
> 1) Duplicate the Mystic, giving it a new name that reflects the different arrows. Change the arrow data and your sight in marks (they will be different with the heavier/lighter arrow). Your peep height and sight distance hasn't changed in this case.
> 
> 2) Simple create a "new" entry.
> 
> Now you decide to set up your Scepter - there's not much benefit in duplicating the bow since every parameter will be different so just add a new bow.


Shadowcat baby.. Scepters will be falling to this soon... Muahahahahaha

Thanks Lee, guess I should have my 'touch' with me, eh?? :embara:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

IGluIt4U said:


> Shadowcat baby.. Scepters will be falling to this soon... Muahahahahaha
> 
> Thanks Lee, guess I should have my 'touch' with me, eh?? :embara:


Well at least the Scepters with Elite limbs

Keep it with you at all times - never know when you're going to have to quickly level a picture. :wink:


----------



## BowDadToo

*Wow, great questions*

Lee, great job answer questions! Thank you.

Yes, Lee and I talked last night and we'll add exporting all the marks in a format that he can then digest so that a second application can spit out a marks tape. We'll roll this into the 1.21 update we've already developed as the only new feature, several significant fixes have been made concerning PDF generation and upper arrow limits (1000 grains and 0.5").

Thank you all for the great discussion, and all of your support.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Lee, great job answer questions! Thank you.
> 
> Yes, Lee and I talked last night and we'll add exporting all the marks in a format that he can then digest so that a second application can spit out a marks tape. We'll roll this into the 1.21 update we've already developed as the only new feature, several significant fixes have been made concerning PDF generation and upper arrow limits (1000 grains and 0.5").
> 
> Thank you all for the great discussion, and all of your support.


Anytime buddy. Before you put 1.21 out, I got something else to run by you. Still trying to consistently duplicate the minor annoyance - if I can, I'd like others to see if it happens for them - may be something with my device.


----------



## Heliman21

I downloaded the app yesterday while waiting for my truck to be serviced. Changing oil isnt fun anymore! It also gave me time to get famaliar with it. When I got home I put in all the bow parameters for my Katera XL and couldnt wait to get to the range today. I made my sight marks at 25 and 55 yards. After saving the data I went to the 40 yard target and the mark was dead on!! We walked a couple of the courses here in Phoenix at Ben Avery Range and at every target, it was right on the mark. I am very impressed at the ease and accuracy of this program. Great job guys! 

Now my question is how do you get more yardages? Say 5yds, 8yds, etc in animal marks? And out to say 70 yds in animal marks? I know the yardages to farther distances are in the field and hunter marks. I'm hoping I dont have to flip through the different cards. 

Thanks again.


----------



## GOT LUCKY

pragmatic_lee said:


> Lucky dear - you're talking in circles again - please rephrase your question(s) and type real slow this time so maybe I/we can understand what you're asking. Or better yet, just trust us. :wink:


*
OK.....Let me try to explain this again..........

What I was wondering is can you have 2 different bow's specs. set -up in it 

Bow #1 My Hoyt Sierra Tec
Bow #2 My Mystic 

How many different bows can you store in it??

and then have separate marks for each one depending which one you want to shoot....

Each bow will have different specs. so they would have to be entered individually....correct???.


and depending on where you are shooting...

Would you have marks stored for each range you shoot like one for the Hillbilly, one for DCWC etc. for each bow???*

*
Now....is that mud any clearer??:grin:*

.


----------



## Spoon13

Okay, let me help Prag out. The answer to all your questions is YES. You can have multiple bows with multiple setup stored at once. I currently have 2 bows setup in mine, each with different, well everything. Different peep height, different sight length, different arrows,...etc. So yes you can store both your Sierra Tec and your Mystic in AM. 

Likewise, you can also have a bow with marks for different courses. You would merely create a duplcate of the desired bow and adjust the marks for the specific course. You would just have to save it with a different description, ie Sierra Tec DCWC vs. Sierra Tec Hillbilly for example. You can then manipulate the marks for the chosen bow/course combination independently of the rest. Prag mentioned that there was no limit in place so in theory, you could have marks for a specific bow for EVERY Field Course in the World if you chose. OR you could by one of EVERY model of bow produced and have marks for DCWC. OR, well you should get the idea by now. The combinations and options are LIMITLESS. 

I hope some of this will help you out. If you can't get the answer to your question from that, your on your own. :wink:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GOT LUCKY

Spoon13 said:


> Okay, let me help Prag out. The answer to all your questions is YES. You can have multiple bows with multiple setup stored at once. I currently have 2 bows setup in mine, each with different, well everything. Different peep height, different sight length, different arrows,...etc. So yes you can store both your Sierra Tec and your Mystic in AM.
> 
> Likewise, you can also have a bow with marks for different courses. You would merely create a duplcate of the desired bow and adjust the marks for the specific course. You would just have to save it with a different description, ie Sierra Tec DCWC vs. Sierra Tec Hillbilly for example. You can then manipulate the marks for the chosen bow/course combination independently of the rest. Prag mentioned that there was no limit in place so in theory, you could have marks for a specific bow for EVERY Field Course in the World if you chose. OR you could by one of EVERY model of bow produced and have marks for DCWC. OR, well you should get the idea by now. The combinations and options are LIMITLESS.
> 
> I hope some of this will help you out. If you can't get the answer to your question from that, your on your own. :wink:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



*WELLLLLLL HALLELUJAH.....BOYS AND GIRLS....Thank you Spoon.....*
*
For a minute there PRAG had me believing I was speaking in foreign tongue........either that or you have a "little blonde" in your bloodline :grin:*

.


----------



## Spoon13

GOT LUCKY said:


> *WELLLLLLL HALLELUJAH.....BOYS AND GIRLS....Thank you Spoon.....*
> *
> For a minute there PRAG had me believing I was speaking in foreign tongue........either that or you have a "little blonde" in your bloodline :grin:*
> 
> .


I am fluent in *******, Yankee, Ohio, and can carry on a conversation in Blonde.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GOT LUCKY

Spoon13 said:


> I am fluent in *******, Yankee, Ohio, and can carry on a conversation in Blonde.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Thanks again Spoon....I will keep you on retainer as "Archery Translator"...*

.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Someone who can't wait for the Field Archery Season to try AM*

Here is a pic of our newest AM customer getting ready for the outdoor season.









Snow in Raleigh, NC is a somewhat rare thing.

--Scott


----------



## Spoon13

Well I may get to run AM through the ringer this weekend. I'm shooting the ASA in Florida and STILL don't have a sight tape for my 3D bow. May just have to see what AM comes up with and roll with that. We shall see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BowDadToo

*Sight tape support*

We are working on something, but we'd rather not say publicly yet how and when it will be available. Phil, the ground hog, just bought us another six weeks to have it done before spring.


----------



## JayMc

Spoon13 said:


> Well I may get to run AM through the ringer this weekend. I'm shooting the ASA in Florida and STILL don't have a sight tape for my 3D bow. May just have to see what AM comes up with and roll with that. We shall see.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be careful, ASA has a no phones on the range rule. It isn't well enforced, but if you're whipping it out on every target somebody might say something about it.



> H. As a courtesy to fellow competitors there will be no talking to spectators or other groups while other competitors in the group are shooting. The use of cell phones is prohibited during competition and cell phones and pagers are to be turned off. A shooter will receive a warning from the group for the first offense. The penalty for the second offense is a deduction of five points from target score, and each subsequent offense will receive a score of zero.


----------



## Spoon13

JayMc said:


> Be careful, ASA has a no phones on the range rule. It isn't well enforced, but if you're whipping it out on every target somebody might say something about it.


I appreciate it. But as you know, ASA has lots of rules that they don't enforce. 

It is legal to use an electronic device to acquire sight settings. Will be interesting to see which they want to complain about more. I'll have my PDA revved up and ready if need be.:wink:


----------



## BowDadToo

*ASA Rule H - Phones*

The rule says: 

"As a courtesy to fellow competitors there will be no talking to spectators or other groups while other competitors in the group are shooting. The use of cell phones is prohibited during competition and cell phones and pagers are to be turned off. A shooter will receive a warning from the group for the first offense. The penalty for the second offense is a deduction of five points from target score, and each subsequent offense will receive a score of zero."

So the intent of the rule is to prohibit outside conversation. If your cell phone is in airplane mode so you can't make or receive outside communications would you be consider in compliance? 

If you use an iTouch instead of an iPhone this should also resolve the issue, though it may annoy your teenage kids when they realize dad swiped it, again...


----------



## JayMc

You expect them to differentiate between an iphone and ipod touch? Have you met some of the ASA range officials? :zip: 

I believe the intent of the no phone rule is to prevent cheating as much as anything. Stop by the ASA trailer and show the program to Dee Falks. He's the rules man and would likely help you get any confusion cleared up in advance of a problem. PM me if you want his number and you can call him while he's driving to Florida this evening. :darkbeer:


----------



## Spoon13

JayMc said:


> You expect them to differentiate between an iphone and ipod touch? Have you met some of the ASA range officials? :zip:
> 
> I believe the intent of the no phone rule is to prevent cheating as much as anything. Stop by the ASA trailer and show the program to Dee Falks. He's the rules man and would likely help you get any confusion cleared up in advance of a problem. PM me if you want his number and you can call him while he's driving to Florida this evening. :darkbeer:


That's funny. I always got a kick out of it when they would put the clock on a group in the middle of a hold up instead of the front. Never quite understood that, but hey, it's ASA.

I'll probably give him a call. I got his number, thanks.


----------



## Steve Jo

just want tos ay thanks for an AMAZING product.

I bought an ipod touch just to be able to run this app after reading about in Archer's magazine.

Unreal.

quick question, can I set up a CBE style sight to work with this?

Thanks again
-Joe


----------



## BowDadToo

*Cbe*

On the CBE Quad Lite Target, it appears to use a 24 thread per inch rod with 20 clicks per thread. I'm assuming this based on their website claim of 0.002 elevation click adjustment. So a Sureloc 24x20 selection would work with Archer's Mark from a computational viewpoint. This assumption may hold true with their other two target sights as well, I don't know, but I will find out.

It doesn't appear from their website that CBE provides a default 24 number/inch scale. I gather they assume you're going to create a sight tape using a variation on the one shot in mark and bow speed method.

Now let's think about this for a second. Their Quad Light series has 0.002" resolution (1 / (24 *20) = 1/480 = 0.00208"), a human hair is typically 0.004" thick so their sight moves two clicks to travel the thickness of one hair. Given this resolution, for one to make effective use of their technology you would need etched sight marks on the blank side of the sight to use as fixed reference points. 

I'll talk with CBE today and see what I can learn.


----------



## Brown Hornet

BowDadToo said:


> On the CBE Quad Lite Target, it appears to use a 24 thread per inch rod with 20 clicks per thread. I'm assuming this based on their website claim of 0.002 elevation click adjustment. So a Sureloc 24x20 selection would work with Archer's Mark from a computational viewpoint. This assumption may hold true with their other two target sights as well, I don't know, but I will find out.
> 
> It doesn't appear from their website that CBE provides a default 24 number/inch scale. I gather they assume you're going to create a sight tape using a variation on the one shot in mark and bow speed method.
> 
> Now let's think about this for a second. Their Quad Light series has 0.002" resolution (1 / (24 *20) = 1/480 = 0.00208"), a human hair is typically 0.004" thick so their sight moves two clicks to travel the thickness of one hair. Given this resolution, for one to make effective use of their technology you would need etched sight marks on the blank side of the sight to use as fixed reference points.
> 
> I'll talk with CBE today and see what I can learn.


Ok now my head hurts :chortle:

I plan on just printing a scale from OT2 and then sticking it on my CBE...


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Brown Hornet said:


> Ok now my head hurts :chortle:


See, you should have paid attention during those Trig and Calc classes (wish I had). All that is require to compute the angle of the dangle.


----------



## VA Vince

Well I finally downloaded AM, havent played with it yet. Just looked through it and I cant wait for some warm weather so I can put it to good use. I will get back when I can use it, looks promising. Good job guys :darkbeer:


----------



## tabarch

pragmatic_lee said:


> See, you should have paid attention during those Trig and Calc classes (wish I had).
> All that is require to compute the angle of the dangle.


It's to cold around here to have any DANGLE, so there is no ANGLE to worry about:wink:


----------



## IGluIt4U

Scott.. any plans to add shaft selector capability to AM?


----------



## BowDadToo

*Shaft selector*

No, sorry shaft selection is not in the queue of planned features.

Our primary focus is assisting archers in the field, as we were frustrated at the time with current hand-held solutions. AM was designed as a tool to leverage the power of a portable touch screen computer that could be used in the field for on the spot sight mark calculations. We've been asked by many to add scoring, make the marks card format more flexible, and possibly even target/course order. All the wish list features are covered on this page: http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/wishlist.html

We understand the value of shaft selection, but we expect that it's done prior to getting out in the field. I'll add it to the bottom of the wish-list, but it will be a very low priority, sorry.


----------



## IGluIt4U

Kinda though you'd say that.. :lol:

No worries.. I have it for the very reason you stated.. a tool for field archery, not setup. Had to ask for someone else tho.. 

Keep up the good work.. :thumb: :tea:


----------



## Bob_Looney

will the ability to print a sight scale have the ability to "scale" that printed scale so it is corrected for different printers?


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark 1.21*

So aside from the fixes mentioned above there are two additions in 1.21 which will hopefully go out in the next few days:

- Adding CBE sight
- Adding Shibuya DC sight
- sighttape.csv file, when you select print it will not only email you
a marks card, but it will attach a second file that can be used to
print an accurate sight tape.

We will then be working with Prag to post his Sighttape program that reads this file on the AM downloads page. This program does know how to scale appropriately for printers.

We're working on the code for all the above now and hopefully it will make it through testing early this week.

--Scott


----------



## xswanted

Great product!

I have only just played a little, but can't wait to get it going.

Was it determined which setting to use for the CBE Quad Lite Target?

Thanks


----------



## BowDadToo

*CBE Sights*

The CBE sight support we're adding support for is their newer "Elite Target" because it has etched markings. It uses a 16 turn, 30 click mechanism which yields 0.002" movement per click. 

The CBE "Quad Lite Target" doesn't have etched markings, and it claims 0.01" visual adjustment capability. Essentially 100 clicks/inch. The question then becomes are they using a 10 turn, 10 click approach, or something else. SO I CALLED CBE, but Eric was out to lunch. Perhaps I'll learn later today what they're using and we can sneak this one in as well.

--Scott


----------



## xswanted

BowDadToo said:


> The CBE sight support we're adding support for is their newer "Elite Target" because it has etched markings. It uses a 16 turn, 30 click mechanism which yields 0.002" movement per click.
> 
> The CBE "Quad Lite Target" doesn't have etched markings, and it claims 0.01" visual adjustment capability. Essentially 100 clicks/inch. The question then becomes are they using a 10 turn, 10 click approach, or something else. SO I CALLED CBE, but Eric was out to lunch. Perhaps I'll learn later today what they're using and we can sneak this one in as well.
> 
> --Scott


Thanks!

That would VERY cool of you to add in that sight.....if not, you give me a WONDERFUL excuse to sell my Target and get the new "click"


----------



## Scott.Barrett

Any update on when this will come to the Android platform? I can think of 10 people here alone that would buy it! 

Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Scott.Barrett said:


> Any update on when this will come to the Android platform? I can think of 10 people here alone that would buy it!
> 
> Scott


Scott, the AM Scott just posted this a few minutes ago 
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1057294544&postcount=93


----------



## Scott.Barrett

pragmatic_lee said:


> Scott, the AM Scott just posted this a few minutes ago
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1057294544&postcount=93


Very simple solution then.....Web version!!!!

Let us subscribe to it and we enter our info into a webpage that stores our settings. We could then log in on our phones to make adjustments or download a file in case we lose internet access....

For now, I will bring my daughter's iTouch with me!

SB


----------



## BowDadToo

*Stealing your kids iTouch*

How often can you actually borrow something back from your kids?

Given all we do for our children using their iTouch every time we shoot outdoor archery is the least they can do to support dad/mom's archery addiction. Sometimes my son has to give his up for a day at a time while I'm testing a new code release. We actually found when testing Gen1 iPods that there was a subtle difference in the inclinometer hardware between that platform and all the others. Go figure...

So borrow from your kids, heck hide it your glovebox while they're sleeping if you need to make sure you have it the next day. They'll just think they lost it and will be too scared to tell you. When they find it later that day, after you're done shooting, near where they "lost" it the night before only you'll be the wiser.

See, I just saved you the cost of a new iTouch. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/images/smilies/gif/wink.gif


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark 1.3 has been submitted*

Well, it's done. I've cast 1.3 at the foot of the Gods at Apple and hopefully they'll bless and release it tomorrow or Monday.

This version replace what was going to be 1.21. Version 1.21 was originally going to just be a collection of minor fixes, but since we added some additional sights (CBE and Shibuya) and sight tape support we thought it might be worthy of a more significant version update.

Sight tape support is via a file, sighttape.csv, that is exported as part of the print function. You can then use the "PragmaticTape" (temporary name) program that will soon be available as a free download on this page: 

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/downloads.html 

to print yourself out a respectable sight tape. More details will follow.

Have a great weekend, and I hope you all shred the center of your targets.

--Scott


----------



## IGluIt4U

Niiiiiice!! :thumb: :cheers:

Now.. if you could only incorporate a hidden arrow guidance system into the next upgrade, we'd really be talking smack.. :mg: :chortle:

Great work guys, looking forward to playing some more with AM this weekend.. :tongue: :archer: :darkbeer:


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark "Practice" Guidance System*

Sticky, funny you should mention that, the AM team is working on a patent application for a new arrow point. 

This is how it works. Once you knock the arrow the system is activated. A microscopic camera and laser range finder in the tip capture the center of the target and determine the pricise range. A clinometer in the shaft detects the launch angle. An accelerometer in the back of the tip measure the increase in speed once you release the arrow and locks that in when the string releases the nock. Then a small processor takes all that information and incoming guidance information from the camera and deploys broad head like vanes from the tip to make any final subtle adjustments to your flight path. The instant before the arrow strikes the target the computer retracts the vanes so they don't get damaged and nobody is the wiser. 

As my son would say, easy peasy lemon squeeze.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Sticky, funny you should mention that, the AM team is working on a patent application for a new arrow point.
> 
> This is how it works. Once you knock the arrow the system is activated. A microscopic camera and laser range finder in the tip capture the center of the target and determine the pricise range. A clinometer in the shaft detects the launch angle. An accelerometer in the back of the tip measure the increase in speed once you release the arrow and locks that in when the string releases the nock. Then a small processor takes all that information and incoming guidance information from the camera and deploys broad head like vanes from the tip to make any final subtle adjustments to your flight path. The instant before the arrow strikes the target the computer retracts the vanes so they don't get damaged and nobody is the wiser.
> 
> As my son would say, easy peasy lemon squeeze.


Does anyone else "smell" somthing?


----------



## Spoon13

pragmatic_lee said:


> Does anyone else "smell" somthing?


Dey put lemons in de Tidy Bowl for you, dey put lemons in de Tidy Bowl. 

For best effect please re-read the previous post with your best Jamaican accent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DarkFORCE

Well I went out to the range today with my new Hoyt Vantage Elite. I sighted in my Redline 410's at 20 and 50 yards. Nice day so I wanted to shoot the hunter range. Well my marks in AM were pretty good. I was shooting pretty well. At the 70 yard target which I never shot this bow at range passed 50 yards I put 4 in the X. Maybe 1/4" between arrows. I was pretty happy. Just gettin back into the spot and this helped me walk to range knowing all the marks were going to be pretty close. 

Thanks. Waiting for 1.3 upgrade Apple!


----------



## IGluIt4U

BowDadToo said:


> Sticky, funny you should mention that, the AM team is working on a patent application for a new arrow point.
> 
> This is how it works. Once you knock the arrow the system is activated. A microscopic camera and laser range finder in the tip capture the center of the target and determine the pricise range. A clinometer in the shaft detects the launch angle. An accelerometer in the back of the tip measure the increase in speed once you release the arrow and locks that in when the string releases the nock. Then a small processor takes all that information and incoming guidance information from the camera and deploys broad head like vanes from the tip to make any final subtle adjustments to your flight path. The instant before the arrow strikes the target the computer retracts the vanes so they don't get damaged and nobody is the wiser.
> 
> As my son would say, easy peasy lemon squeeze.


See!!??! I knew I wasn't far off...  :thumb: :darkbeer:


----------



## IGluIt4U

Ok, on a serious note, I did get to work with AM today for a while and I gotta say, I'm impressed.. :thumb: :tongue:

Though.. I see two things... one - my arrow speed is awfully generous on AM.. I like what it says, but it's not even close to that fast..  Is there something have have outta whack in my setup? or is is based on the marks? :noidea:

and.. a minor issue.. when you select the marks to display (field, hunter, animal, all) the word 'hunter' is not underlined as the others are when you select that display mode. I guess, by default, it's hunter, since none are underlined at that point? :noidea: :chortle: :chortle:


----------



## BowDadToo

DarkFORCE said:


> Well I went out to the range today with my new Hoyt Vantage Elite. I sighted in my Redline 410's at 20 and 50 yards. Nice day so I wanted to shoot the hunter range. Well my marks in AM were pretty good. I was shooting pretty well. At the 70 yard target which I never shot this bow at range passed 50 yards I put 4 in the X. Maybe 1/4" between arrows. I was pretty happy. Just gettin back into the spot and this helped me walk to range knowing all the marks were going to be pretty close.
> 
> Thanks. Waiting for 1.3 upgrade Apple!


Version 1.3 is in "Waiting for Review Status" so hopefully another day. Just in advance of posting the 1.3 update I refreshed the 1.2 screen shots and those are now active. 

If we're a wee bit off at any given yardage you can add a modified or even a shot-in mark to improve things further.


----------



## BowDadToo

*1.3 has been Approved*

Folks officially within 24 hours all the Apple servers world wide will be serving up version 1.3. If you check the App store tonight you'll likely find the update waiting for you, if not then check back around lunch time tomorrow and it should be there.

Over the weekend we did find a small bug in what appears to be Apple's mail program on the iPhone, and we're trying to see if Apple is aware of it. Since sending attachments from email your create on your iPhone/iPod Touch is not a common thing it's likely Apple may have missed this one. When you tap "Print" from within setup we ask you to confirm that you really want to print a marks card. If you say yes then we spin up a three page PDF that contains several marks cards (BowDataBackup.pdf), and we also create a sight tape data file (sighttape.csv). We then open the Mail application, add a subject line, then add these two files as attachments, and finally put the cursor in the "To:" field. You can then type in an address, hit send and off the email goes. 

Sometimes when it arrives you only receive the BowDataBackup.pdf file, other times you get both. We noticed this in additional testing this weekend after 1.3 was submitted that if you put some text in the email following the sighttape.csv attachment you'll always get both files, or so it seems thus far. Clearly something is funky within mail, perhaps how it detects the end of the email body, we're not really sure. In the next maintenance release of AM we've got an obvious work around by adding "Thank you for using Archer's Mark" after the CSV file.

Sorry this wasn't detected during testing. It doesn't show up in the simulator, because most of us don't have email setup in the simulator, and it's inconsistent on the actual hardware. 

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Folks officially within 24 hours all the Apple servers world wide will be serving up version 1.3. If you check the App store tonight you'll likely find the update waiting for you, if not then check back around lunch time tomorrow and it should be there.
> 
> Over the weekend we did find a small bug in what appears to be Apple's mail program on the iPhone, and we're trying to see if Apple is aware of it. Since sending attachments from email your create on your iPhone/iPod Touch is not a common thing it's likely Apple may have missed this one. When you tap "Print" from within setup we ask you to confirm that you really want to print a marks card. If you say yes then we spin up a three page PDF that contains several marks cards (BowDataBackup.pdf), and we also create a sight tape data file (sighttape.csv). We then open the Mail application, add a subject line, then add these two files as attachments, and finally put the cursor in the "To:" field. You can then type in an address, hit send and off the email goes.
> 
> Sometimes when it arrives you only receive the BowDataBackup.pdf file, other times you get both. We noticed this in additional testing this weekend after 1.3 was submitted that if you put some text in the email following the sighttape.csv attachment you'll always get both files, or so it seems thus far. Clearly something is funky within mail, perhaps how it detects the end of the email body, we're not really sure. In the next maintenance release of AM we've got an obvious work around by adding "Thank you for using Archer's Mark" after the CSV file.
> 
> Sorry this wasn't detected during testing. It doesn't show up in the simulator, because most of us don't have email setup in the simulator, and it's inconsistent on the actual hardware.
> 
> --Scott


Scott,
I checked earlier today and 1.2 was still the current release; however, strangely enough the screen shot image of the splash screen showed 1.3. I may have caught it during a transition.


----------



## DarkFORCE

BowDadToo said:


> Folks officially within 24 hours all the Apple servers world wide will be serving up version 1.3. If you check the App store tonight you'll likely find the update waiting for you, if not then check back around lunch time tomorrow and it should be there.
> 
> Over the weekend we did find a small bug in what appears to be Apple's mail program on the iPhone, and we're trying to see if Apple is aware of it. Since sending attachments from email your create on your iPhone/iPod Touch is not a common thing it's likely Apple may have missed this one. When you tap "Print" from within setup we ask you to confirm that you really want to print a marks card. If you say yes then we spin up a three page PDF that contains several marks cards (BowDataBackup.pdf), and we also create a sight tape data file (sighttape.csv). We then open the Mail application, add a subject line, then add these two files as attachments, and finally put the cursor in the "To:" field. You can then type in an address, hit send and off the email goes.
> 
> Sometimes when it arrives you only receive the BowDataBackup.pdf file, other times you get both. We noticed this in additional testing this weekend after 1.3 was submitted that if you put some text in the email following the sighttape.csv attachment you'll always get both files, or so it seems thus far. Clearly something is funky within mail, perhaps how it detects the end of the email body, we're not really sure. In the next maintenance release of AM we've got an obvious work around by adding "Thank you for using Archer's Mark" after the CSV file.
> 
> Sorry this wasn't detected during testing. It doesn't show up in the simulator, because most of us don't have email setup in the simulator, and it's inconsistent on the actual hardware.
> 
> --Scott


Not showing as an update as of yet but if you download as new purchase it will say you already have this and update it free.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

DarkFORCE said:


> Not showing as an update as of yet but if you download as new purchase it will say you already have this and update it free.


I'd bet the web page is cached somewhere and what we're seeing is the transition.


----------



## BowDadToo

*I cheated and applied 1.3 images to 1.2 release*

Knowing how Apple works, to some extent after having done several other releases, I applied the 1.3 images to the 1.2 catalog entry to front load the whole process and ensure that everything was properly in place prior to the arrival of the actual code.

Thanks for noticing though.


----------



## BowDadToo

We had one instance in the past when the update was live with old screen shots. This approach prevents that, and since everything else in the catalog says 1.2 I figured no one would notice, except Prag of course.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> We had one instance in the past when the update was live with old screen shots. This approach prevents that, and since everything else in the catalog says 1.2 I figured no one would notice, except Prag of course.
> 
> --Scott


Hey, had to have something to do this morning when AT was having "issues". :shade:


----------



## Spoon13

*Update 1.3*

It's live.

At least I was able to download it.


----------



## VA Vince

Scott- Iphone email has been terrible as of late. Apples "push" has been having a ton of issues lately. For the past 2 weeks I have had to manually fetch mail, as well as my wifes Iphone to. I do not no why apple has not addressed the problem, I already swapped one phone and apple had no clue about the push problem. Its all over apples forum.

Anyway I will test out the program either this weekend or next.


----------



## BowDadToo

*mail and more.*

I've noticed the same thing on my Godaddy hosted accounts, but not my Gmail or yahoo accounts. Yes, I've got six email accounts. My reference was to the mail app specifically on the phone, not the service to get content to your device.

An end user can't attach a file from an email on the iPhone, it can ONLY be done programmatically. 

So does anyone want to know WHY? This will be important in the future, though not for archery, and it will be on the test. Since the beginning most of us have been taught that your data is separate from your applications. We create folders, say an ArchersMark folder, and it we dump spreadsheets from Excel that were used to create initial data models, several documents written using both Pages and Word outlining the fine art of ballistics along with all the necessary formulas, both from research and derived, numerous directories with source trees by version and so on. When I open a data file the OS figures out what app is needed first, launches it, then passes the data file to that app. We expect this, go on our merry way and essentially cut up whatever storage is available to us by subject. Makes sense.

With the introduction of the iPhone and iPod/Touch these devices came with expectation, and from the perspective, of a closed architectural design. One where it understood that apps would not be handing data off to one another in such a casual way by simply using the file system. If that were allowed a "free" app could potentially rip through your device and do whatever it darn well pleased to all your files, which would not be a good thing and Apple's reputation would take the hit. So the files an app creates remain with that app's directory tree and that app is limited to accessing only those files in it's own directory tree. So for example Archer's Mark creates several files once you start using it, but these files are considered by the OS as part of AM and they reside in AM's directory structure. If you create a bow, we create a file for it. When/if you delete AM that bow disappears as well. When you re-install AM it's no longer there. Apple's own apps of course can break this rule and there are some conventions for other Apps to access shared data like photos. 

So what does this mean to iPhone/iPod Touch users. Not much as few apps have done much sharing, yet! With the iPad though things will get very interesting as it has the screen real estate and is being positioned as a true tablet computer. You will be in say Pages (Apple's version of Word) and you'll create a document for a project, but it will remain with pages. Then suppose you need to create a spreadsheet for that same project, it will remain with Numbers (Apple's version of Excel). Now you want to share those with your team mates who are stuck using Windows, what do you do? Well both Pages and Numbers know how to save in the latest MS Office formats, that's not the issue, but where are these documents and how do you keep them together by version?

Each, at least as far as Apple has explained it thus far, will remain with it's respective application so you better be vigilant with a robust naming convention otherwise you'll always be searching for things. Some apps like Mail, iDisk and other Apple controlled or sanctioned ones, will be capable of going into other apps folders and fetching data files, although how Apple is going to facilitate and secure this is still a mystery. iDisk doesn't currently support this, but it will have to once the iPad is released.

So what does this mean to Mail? It explains why when you're in Mail on an iPhone/iPod touch you can't do an attachment, because Apple doesn't want you roaming around the filesystem on the device. What does this have to do with Archery? Well it explains why Mail has had very little testing with regard to attachments and why you might need to type an extra character or two after sighttape.csv in Mail if you want that file to arrive when you send it from within Archer's Mark.

--Scott


----------



## xswanted

I plugged into the app store and downloaded the update, but I still don't see anything for CBE sights?

Did I do somthing wrong?

Thanks


----------



## BowDadToo

Tap setup.

Tap select Bow.

Tap edit on that specific bow.

Tap Sight Type.

Its the second one from the bottom "30 Click 16 Turn". The small text under that says CBE...


----------



## BowDadToo

Oh, one other thing, when you enter marks on a CBE since it's a 30 click sight if you have a mark that's say 20 +7 clicks you enter that as 20.07. If it's say 32 +27 clicks then that would be 32.27. The key is to remember to put a zero in-front of single digit numbers and the decimal point. Does that make sense.

--Scott


----------



## xswanted

BowDadToo said:


> Tap setup.
> 
> Tap select Bow.
> 
> Tap edit on that specific bow.
> 
> Tap Sight Type.
> 
> Its the second one from the bottom "30 Click 16 Turn". The small text under that says CBE...


Its not there....Do I need to restart the ipod or something?

Or do I go to the apple app store?


----------



## xswanted

Nevermind.......got it on there!

Woop woop!


----------



## BowDadToo

My heart was skipping beats there for a minute. Thanks for the update.


----------



## BowDadToo

*AM on Android*

We've been asked this many times in the past two months.

We're serious testing the Android development environment now and sizing up what it will take to move AM over hopefully by mid summer. In the mean time I thought I share with you some interesting App Store research I received, and it's current as of this month:

Apple
over 159,600 Apps
over 30,000 developers
75 Million users

Android
over 33,900 Apps
over 4,000 developers
1 Million users

Blackberry
over 5,700 Apps
over 1,000 developers
5-10 Million users


----------



## VA Vince

Thats a ton of iphone users! Going to test it out this weekend.


----------



## Brown Hornet

VA Vince said:


> Thats a ton of iphone users! Going to test it out this weekend.


some of those users are touch users also :wink:


----------



## BowDadToo

I know for a fact this market data doesn't include iPod Touch users as it's sole focus is mobile phone platforms. iPod Touch users could very well double that number.


----------



## Brown Hornet

BowDadToo said:


> I know for a fact this market data doesn't include iPod Touch users as it's sole focus is mobile phone platforms. iPod Touch users could very well double that number.


ah ha... 

I know being a Crackberry user that most of their apps....SUCK and most people with one have them for work purposes.....not playing and doing everything under the sun though :wink:


----------



## JayMc

Brown Hornet said:


> ah ha...
> 
> I know being a Crackberry user that most of their apps....SUCK and most people with one have them for work purposes.....not playing and doing everything under the sun though :wink:


I had several Blackberries including the Bold. Also had a Motorola Q, Samsung Blackjack and Blackjack 2. NONE of them compare to the iphone.

Blackberry is better for business purposes b/c we can kill it from the BES, but as an end user I'm hooked on the iphone


----------



## pops1

imott said:


> Does anybody search?
> 
> Only iPhone. There is an announcement thread that discusses this.


I can't spell the word......


----------



## BowDadToo

Actually, if an iPhone is registered into a corporate exchange server, the admin of the exchange server can brick the phone for security reasons then only Apple can reactivate it.



JayMc said:


> I had several Blackberries including the Bold. Also had a Motorola Q, Samsung Blackjack and Blackjack 2. NONE of them compare to the iphone.
> 
> Blackberry is better for business purposes b/c we can kill it from the BES, but as an end user I'm hooked on the iphone


----------



## JayMc

BowDadToo said:


> Actually, if an iPhone is registered into a corporate exchange server, the admin of the exchange server can brick the phone for security reasons then only Apple can reactivate it.


We probably didn't do that right at my co...


----------



## pops1

pragmatic_lee said:


> Rick,
> Yes the iPod Touch has the clinometer just like the iPhone. On the Setup screen there is a Print button. This will produce a PDF document of the marks for the bow selected. It will then prompt you for an email address to send the document to.
> 
> I will see if I can produce one an attach it to this thread in a few minutes.
> 
> Prag


Why couldn't the program be written to allow the marks to be sent directly to a Network printer OR an email address?


----------



## pragmatic_lee

pops1 said:


> Why couldn't the program be written to allow the marks to be sent directly to a Network printer OR an email address?


Good question - at this point I'm reasonably sure the PDF would still have to be created as I don't think there is a print library for the iPhone/Touch yet. In fact, I don't think the platform supports any kind of printing "yet".


----------



## golfingguy27

Ok.. question.. I am a newbie with the ipod touch and it's apps. I went this morning to check on the updated version of Archers Mark. Somebody told me that when the updated version came out, that it would automatically update itself the next time I synched?? I synched this morning and it's still the same, and when I look at the file in my apps folder, it is still the old version. How do I get it to go out and get the new version?


----------



## Spoon13

golfingguy27 said:


> Ok.. question.. I am a newbie with the ipod touch and it's apps. I went this morning to check on the updated version of Archers Mark. Somebody told me that when the updated version came out, that it would automatically update itself the next time I synched?? I synched this morning and it's still the same, and when I look at the file in my apps folder, it is still the old version. How do I get it to go out and get the new version?


When you connect your iPod, select it from the menu on the left so that the screen on the right shows it's contents. There will be an "Applications" tab at the top of the screen. You will need to select that screen. Once it displays all of your applications, there should be a button on the lower right (I think) that says Get Updates or Update All or something of that nature. iTunes will then download the update so that you can update the app when you sync.

That is the best I can remember. I haven't sync'd my iPhone in a while. I usually just update all the apps when I'm at work using our wireless network. That is also an option. If you are in a place that has Wi-Fi, you can select the App Store from the iPod itself and choose the Updates button. It will show you all the available updates for your iPod. Then next time you sync with iTunes, the iPod will update the apps in iTunes.


----------



## golfingguy27

Spoon13 said:


> When you connect your iPod, select it from the menu on the left so that the screen on the right shows it's contents. There will be an "Applications" tab at the top of the screen. You will need to select that screen. Once it displays all of your applications, there should be a button on the lower right (I think) that says Get Updates or Update All or something of that nature. iTunes will then download the update so that you can update the app when you sync.
> 
> That is the best I can remember. I haven't sync'd my iPhone in a while. I usually just update all the apps when I'm at work using our wireless network. That is also an option. If you are in a place that has Wi-Fi, you can select the App Store from the iPod itself and choose the Updates button. It will show you all the available updates for your iPod. Then next time you sync with iTunes, the iPod will update the apps in iTunes.


Hhmm.. I am at work right now so I can't try, but I thought I looked in both of the places you mentioned and didn't see anything about updates, but I will definately check when I get home.


----------



## Spoon13

golfingguy27 said:


> Hhmm.. I am at work right now so I can't try, but I thought I looked in both of the places you mentioned and didn't see anything about updates, but I will definately check when I get home.


I will say that I have the iPhone and not the iPod but the OS is the same for both (iThink, lol). If you open the App Store on the iPod, there is a button on the bottom right of the screen that says "Updates". If you choose that button the iPod should look to see if any updates are available for the app you have installed. You can then choose to download them on the Wi-Fi.


----------



## Spoon13

Here is a screen shot to show you what I'm talking about.


----------



## golfingguy27

Spoon13 said:


> Here is a screen shot to show you what I'm talking about.


Ok.. will look for that tonight.. thanks. I am just getting my setup tweaked so I can use it for the first time on a field course Saturday at Norva and figured I may as well get the update while I am at it.


----------



## litegun

*Deleing old marks and installing new*

I Made some changes to my bow and want to eliminate the old yardgae marks and add the new ones.
I seem to be stymied and the old marks won't edit out. What so I do to replace the old with the new?
Thanks. litegun


----------



## IGluIt4U

litegun said:


> I Made some changes to my bow and want to eliminate the old yardgae marks and add the new ones.
> I seem to be stymied and the old marks won't edit out. What so I do to replace the old with the new?
> Thanks. litegun


Go to your bow's setup and on that screen you can enter your two marks, short and long (or edit the ones that are in there now)


----------



## pragmatic_lee

IGluIt4U said:


> Go to your bow's setup and on that screen you can enter your two marks, short and long (or edit the ones that are in there now)


What Sticky said


----------



## litegun

I did and thank you.


----------



## White Nock

Does anyone else have a calculated speed that is much greater than what the bow actually shoots? The chronograph tells me 278 while AM tells me 306.


----------



## IGluIt4U

White Nock said:


> Does anyone else have a calculated speed that is much greater than what the bow actually shoots? The chronograph tells me 278 while AM tells me 306.


Yes, my arrow speed is similar in AM and also similar to your actual when I run it through the chrono.. the speed displayed by AM seems a bit exaggerated, but.. the marks are workin good for me and that's what I'm most interested in..


----------



## White Nock

IGluIt4U said:


> Yes, my arrow speed is similar in AM and also similar to your actual when I run it through the chrono.. the speed displayed by AM seems a bit exaggerated, but.. the marks are workin good for me and that's what I'm most interested in..


Thanks for the info. I put my 20 and 50 in manually and found that my other marks were dead on. Looking forward to flinging some 80's tomorrow. :wink:


----------



## IGluIt4U

Just want to give a shout out and thanks to the Archer's Mark Team.. you guys have done a great job. Shot a field shoot yesterday using the touch and AM (finally! :lol: ) and it performed pretty much flawlessly.

I have a bit of an issue with my short marks, as I was unable to verify any bunny marks before the shoot. I think it's a bit of error in my 'near mark', so I'm going to work on fine tuning that this afternoon, but otherwise the program worked like a charm, including the downhill/uphill cuts we had to shoot yesterday.. My long marks however, were spot on.. :nod:

Thanks for a great program.... :thumb: :cheers: :yo:


----------



## golfingguy27

IGluIt4U said:


> Just want to give a shout out and thanks to the Archer's Mark Team.. you guys have done a great job. Shot a field shoot yesterday using the touch and AM (finally! :lol: ) and it performed pretty much flawlessly.
> 
> I have a bit of an issue with my short marks, as I was unable to verify any bunny marks before the shoot. I think it's a bit of error in my 'near mark', so I'm going to work on fine tuning that this afternoon, but otherwise the program worked like a charm, including the downhill/uphill cuts we had to shoot yesterday.. My long marks however, were spot on.. :nod:
> 
> Thanks for a great program.... :thumb: :cheers: :yo:


I am FAR from a totally consistent shooter, and therefore my marks aren't as solid as yours, but I had noticed the same thing, and Dave was too. I am pretty confident in everything from 20 yards out, but inside of that, they seem off. I think it may be that at such a short range, the angles get more extreme and everything gets more critical in order for AM to give us an accurate number. I'm sure as more of us do more playing with it, we will either figure out what works to solve the "problem" on our end, or they will figure out how to tweak the software for it. Over all, I am very pleased and impressed with it so far too. Although the girls were making fun of all of us guys with our new gadgets, pulling them out at each target and getting our marks... just jealousy I am sure! lol


----------



## IGluIt4U

I actually printed the marks and used that for most of the targets, except cuts and modding the short marks as I shot them. It sure is easy that way, thanks for adding the print function.. :nod: :becky:


----------



## IGluIt4U

I know I need to recheck my peep/sight specs too, as I've swapped out scopes and fine tuned my sight distance, which has a huuuge impact on short marks, as well as peep height. Once I get them accurately measured and inputted we'll see what happens to the short marks.


----------



## golfingguy27

IGluIt4U said:


> I know I need to recheck my peep/sight specs too, as I've swapped out scopes and fine tuned my sight distance, which has a huuuge impact on short marks, as well as peep height. Once I get them accurately measured and inputted we'll see what happens to the short marks.


yeah.. my measurements may be slightly off too. I live alone and don't have a drawboard, so getting the two measurements took a little creativity, so they could be a little off. I will have to get Hinky or somebody to help me and measure as I draw the bow.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Birdies, bunnies, whatever you call close ones*

As some of you are now realizing scope mark calculation is voodoo inside the near mark, and down right serious dark magic inside parallax (12y)! 

Suppose someone were to plot a graph where the range ran across the bottom in say yards, and on the left hand vertical axis was the scope mark setting for that range. The graph would look something like the nike swoosh mark with the left hand section sloping up a little more. Here is a sample one, complements of Macaholic's data, early last fall:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/images/SampleFar.jpg

Now this doesn't address the core discussion, birdies/bunnies, at that time I also graphed in feet 18 out to sixty feet, and here is that graph:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/images/SampleNear.jpg

I then crawled through the trigonometry and tuned and tweaked things until we consistently were within the range of two competing desktop platforms. 

For accurate birdie/bunny marks you have to be exact in your measurements for your peep to pin (when your scope is set for 20 yards), and peep to center of the arrow vertically. Both of course are at full draw. These two dimensions setup a series of similar triangles and at close ranges the more precise your measurements the more accurate your marks should be. 

That said if your measurements are spot on, and your mod marks differ I would like to see them. Please use the edit section and save your mod marks and when you have time, and an internet connection use "Print" within setup and email a copy to "am" at "ffxcorp.com" (of course you need to use the @ sign, I didn't to stop the spiders). 

Thank you all...


----------



## BowDadToo

*Birdies, bunnies, whatever you call close ones*

Oops, meant to imbed the graphs as pictures.

Far plot:










Near plot: 










An questions, post them here.

--Scott


----------



## White Nock

After getting good 20yd and 60yd marks, my bunny/birdie marks are correct.


----------



## BowDadToo

Excellent... How did you shoot this past weekend?

A note to everyone, if AM is working for you and you like it please consider providing feedback and a nice review on iTunes. 

Thank you all.
--Scott


----------



## White Nock

BowDadToo said:


> Excellent... How did you shoot this past weekend?
> 
> A note to everyone, if AM is working for you and you like it please consider providing feedback and a nice review on iTunes.
> 
> Thank you all.
> --Scott


I shot a half and did okay by my standards but made some mistakes as usual. Not the bow's fault though.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Hogg Mob*

It was brought to my attention several hours ago that version 1.30 broke support for the Hogg Mob family of eight click/turn sights (I somehow started treating them as 20 click).

As such I've located the source of the problem and have fixed it. Version 1.31 was submitted to the Apple Gods a few minutes ago and if all goes as planned you Spot Hoggs should be shooting with 1.31 by the weekend.

Sorry about the glitch...

--Scott


----------



## Ethan

Just got the program last night. Haven't got to try out all the marks, but all of my pencil marks seem to be right on! I used 30yd and 70yd for sighting in. Great program!


Just one thing on the Print feature. When I bring that up and want to put in my email address, I can only see the top little bit of the ., space, and whatever else is down in that row. any suggestions?


----------



## Ethan

well, I got a chance to try the marks out to 100 yds today. The marks are spot on...as for me though :embara:

Nice Job


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Ethan said:


> Just got the program last night. Haven't got to try out all the marks, but all of my pencil marks seem to be right on! I used 30yd and 70yd for sighting in. Great program!
> 
> 
> Just one thing on the Print feature. When I bring that up and want to put in my email address, I can only see the top little bit of the ., space, and whatever else is down in that row. any suggestions?


I hadn't used the email feature for over a week since my %#%&*@# laptop decided it didn't want to boot up anymore, but after reading this, I just sent myself an email here at the office. The bottom line of the "virtual" keyboard was fully displayed. Try just sending an email without doing so via AM and see if the line is visible then.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Printing*



Ethan said:


> ... Just one thing on the Print feature. When I bring that up and want to put in my email address, I can only see the top little bit of the ., space, and whatever else is down in that row. any suggestions?


Here are two screen shots showing the flow of actions after tapping print:










then if you tap in the to: field it should look like this:










Are you saying at this point the screen is too crowded? At this point you're in the mail app, not AM. Can you please get on the screen with the problem then press the suspend and home buttons at the same time. This will snap a picture of the screen, then if you could PM that to me we could likely easily resolve this...

--Scott


----------



## Ethan

BowDadToo said:


> Here are two screen shots showing the flow of actions after tapping print:
> 
> then if you tap in the to: field it should look like this:
> 
> Are you saying at this point the screen is too crowded? At this point you're in the mail app, not AM. Can you please get on the screen with the problem then press the suspend and home buttons at the same time. This will snap a picture of the screen, then if you could PM that to me we could likely easily resolve this...
> 
> --Scott


Just looked again and its fine. I dont know if I was just seeing things or what. No problems here.


----------



## BowDadToo

Excellent, also we're glad to hear that the marks worked for you this weekend.

--Scott


----------



## zozoka

Hello

I bought last week the Archers Mark
My only problem is with metric support....also the initial setup must be made in inch..(peep to arrow, peep to scope).
Also only yards for initial shoot in ....no possibility to use metric.
It is possible in future releases, if i select metric, to have all and only metric ?

And a question.
Wich settings to use for spot hogg hoggernaut ?

Thanks
Zoli


----------



## BowDadToo

On metric, right now in setup if you turn metric on then the "All" game button displays all the ranges in metric. Regardless, the "Field" game at the bottom of the ranges also displays 30, 50, 60, 70, 90M. Now if you want to setup your bow using metric, at this time we don't support this, we will in a future release as it's more a user interface issue. Note that all the underlying ballistics are done in feet out to 360' at this time.

On Spot Hogg sights, we only support the Hogg Mob (Father, Boss & Tommy) because they use a linear mechanism. To the best of my knowledge the Hoggernaut does not.


----------



## zozoka

Thanks for your fast reply.
good to know that you will support metric setup in future releases.

Regards
Zoli


----------



## BowDadToo

Actually, Version 2, which is in design is focused on adding FITA support and more metric options. Hopefully we'll release it later this spring.

--Scott


----------



## NockOn

BowDadToo said:


> Actually, Version 2, which is in design is focused on adding FITA support and more metric options. Hopefully we'll release it later this spring.
> 
> --Scott


Good news since I'm going to the FITA Field Champs. I could use it to train...


----------



## russch

*Short yardages inaccurate (?)*

On mine I am having difficulty as well with the short ranges. Also the speed is registering what I consider artificially high. The longer ranges seem accurate. When I put in the same information on Archer's Advantage short ranges are very accurate. I really would like to use this program as I am addicted to my iPod. 

Suggestions?


----------



## IGluIt4U

russch said:


> On mine I am having difficulty as well with the short ranges. Also the speed is registering what I consider artificially high. The longer ranges seem accurate. When I put in the same information on Archer's Advantage short ranges are very accurate. I really would like to use this program as I am addicted to my iPod.
> 
> Suggestions?


Well, either remeasure your peep/sight dim's and put them in accurately, or... just mod the short marks and use your mods.. that's what I'm doing at the moment.. :lol: :wink:


----------



## BOWGOD

russch said:


> On mine I am having difficulty as well with the short ranges. Also the speed is registering what I consider artificially high. The longer ranges seem accurate. When I put in the same information on Archer's Advantage short ranges are very accurate. I really would like to use this program as I am addicted to my iPod.
> 
> Suggestions?


I haven't been able to get my short marks, and long marks to work out together either. I end up with good long makes, and bad short marks, or good short marks, and bad long marks.
I'm going to try to use all 5 shot in marks to see if it helps out any. That is if I ever get the time to do that much shooting.


----------



## Moparmatty

BOWGOD said:


> I haven't been able to get my short marks, and long marks to work out together either. I end up with good long makes, and bad short marks, or good short marks, and bad long marks..


I'm having the same problem too, and I know my peep measurements are right on the money. I had goo marks at 20 and 50 before hitting the range today and anything over 50 was all quite high.


----------



## Wiz w/a Sceptre

*Archers Mark is Spot on*

I have used Archers Advantage for the last 5-6 years for marks and I have relied on it heavily as it generates marks that are spot on - So I fed the exact numbers into Archers Mark and voila the marks that it generates are exactly the same as AA. Then I tried different combinations on the fly with both programs and whatys know the exact same results. Well done Archers Mark :cocktail:


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark and Speed.*

Warning, long, but informative can of worms.

We went back and forth on this a number of times prior to the release last November. For a long time we didn't show bow speed. 

Most people who know their bow speed very likely used a Radarchron which has an accuracy of "± 2 % throughout the velocity range of 150-450 fps" from their datasheet. So assuming the device says 250fps the actual value could be anywhere between 245 and 255. This really is very good. 

So how does Archer's Mark compute bow speed? We do it using very absolute formulas. First there are six measurements required in this phase: near range in feet, far range in feet, near scope mark, and far scope mark, peep to pin, and the type of sight. In absolute terms the bow speed we show is the average speed of your arrow between your near mark and your far mark. 

The first formula uses the difference between the sight marks, the type of sight and the peep to pin measurement to determine the precise difference in your launch angle required to cover the distance from your near mark to your far mark. Knowing this angle is critical because it establishes how much time the arrow is in the air from your near mark to your far mark.

Next we use the difference between the near and far range, gravity and the launch angle mentioned above to determine the velocity necessary to cover the distance. 

Is this method perfect, no. We may move to some light weight calculus to get us closer in the next version. We could dive in and do the whole thing in calculus and that would be more exact. For perfection though we would need to move to fluid dynamics. By that time though Archer's Mark would cost $999/copy, the maximum allowable by Apple, because it would have taken another year and several very expense software licenses from Fluent to develop.

We had at one point toyed with a fudge factor to bring us inline with the Radarchron, but we backed that out because it didn't feel right. There are no magical external coefficients, no tweaking of the data in any way, everything is absolute. 

So how can there be a difference. Let's take my bow using the format mentioned above, note Prag took my peep to pin measurement and I'm not that good, yet, so my sight marks are whole numbers: 20Y, 60Y, 26.00, 45.00, 26.88 peep to pin (26 7/8), and a Surelock. My arrow speed is reported as 255 fps. Let's assume my far mark was off and that it's really 44.5 my bow speed jumps up to 258. Essentially 6 fps/turn off in sight mark for this example.

Now lets combine that, and say the 20Y on our range is 1 foot short and our 60Y is actually two foot long (a 1 yard delta). How does that change things? Our bow speed jumps from 258 to 262 fps, 4 FPS/Yd. So these two subtle errors combined produce a 3% change.

So where does this leave us? If you'd like to click print in setup and put "am" at "ffxcorp.com" in the to: line and include your Radarchron value I'd be happy to use your data as I further improve how we display bow speed in the next version.

Questions?


----------



## BowDadToo

Wiz w/a Sceptre said:


> I have used Archers Advantage for the last 5-6 years for marks and I have relied on it heavily as it generates marks that are spot on - So I fed the exact numbers into Archers Mark and voila the marks that it generates are exactly the same as AA. Then I tried different combinations on the fly with both programs and whatys know the exact same results. Well done Archers Mark :cocktail:


Thank you. We black boxed both AA and TAP during development to ensure our results were consistent with both of these fine programs.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

Moparmatty said:


> I'm having the same problem too, and I know my peep measurements are right on the money. I had goo marks at 20 and 50 before hitting the range today and anything over 50 was all quite high.


Matt,

What I'd suggest is to then establish a really good shot in at say 70 or 80 yards. If that's not an option then consider moving your far mark out to say 60 yards if that's possible.

--Scott


----------



## Ethan

BowDadToo said:


> Matt,
> 
> What I'd suggest is to then establish a really good shot in at say 70 or 80 yards. If that's not an option then consider moving your far mark out to say 60 yards if that's possible.
> 
> --Scott


I used 30 and 70 marks for mine. It worked very well!


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Moparmatty said:


> I'm having the same problem too, and I know my peep measurements are right on the money. I had goo marks at 20 and 50 before hitting the range today and anything over 50 was all quite high.





BowDadToo said:


> Matt,
> 
> What I'd suggest is to then establish a really good shot in at say 70 or 80 yards. If that's not an option then consider moving your far mark out to say 60 yards if that's possible.
> 
> --Scott





Ethan said:


> I used 30 and 70 marks for mine. It worked very well!


I always use 30 & 60 - just too much spread at 20.


----------



## Jomas

I got the app yesterday, and have to say that I have noever shot in field tournaments so I don't really know what it is about, I was hoping to use it for predicting arrow flight and sight tapes, but to be blatently honest I don't even know or understand what a "mark" is! It doens't corrispond to anything on my sight, which is a Sward single pin slider.
Does this app have any uses a simple hunter and tinkerer can use?


----------



## FitaX10

Hey guys, 
first let me say i love AM i think it is the handiest easiest practical sight mark system available. Thanks
Second, I am having touble getting the sight tape to be sent to my email. I get it in the email screen and type in words after the sight tape but it still doesn't show up. Just food for thought. I would only like it for a backup.
Chris


----------



## BowDadToo

*eMail sight tapes*

Chris,

We've noticed this as well after release on some systems, it's actually a bug in the Mail app and how it handles attachments. At that point you're not in AM, but actually Mail. We've been exploring to see if Apple is even aware of the problem. Creating attachments in mail on the iPhone is rarely ever used, but with the new iPad it's going to see a fair amount of use so it should be seend more often and likely fixed in a future OS update.

For now you can add some text and a return after the sight tape file in the body of the email, and this should fix the problem. We think it might be an issue with how mail detects the end of the body, but we're not sure. 

As for the program to consume the sight tape and print one out, we're still working on that. Check http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/downloads.html for status on the Pragmatic Tape program.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Sward or Sword?*



Jomas said:


> a Sward single pin slider


Do you mean a Sword single pin slider? Which model? No one has asked for support for this sight yet, but I can look into it if you can please provide the specific model.


----------



## JawsDad

I have a stupid simple question, and it's probably answered if I would RTFM :wink:. 

Peep to arrow measurement. Should it be to the center line of the arrow? 

With my little arrows it's not so critical since the distance from the top to the center is fairly small. But, some of these larger arrows can have a more significant change which I would assume might change the calcs in AM slightly.


----------



## The Swami

JawsDad said:


> I have a stupid simple question, and it's probably answered if I would RTFM :wink:.
> 
> Peep to arrow measurement. Should it be to the center line of the arrow?
> 
> With my little arrows it's not so critical since the distance from the top to the center is fairly small. But, some of these larger arrows can have a more significant change which I would assume might change the calcs in AM slightly.


I measure mine from center of arrow to center of peep.

Think of it this way, your peep height doesn't change just because you use different arrows does it? You don't have to adjust your peep to accomodate different arrows right?


----------



## JawsDad

The Swami said:


> I measure mine from center of arrow to center of peep.
> 
> Think of it this way, your peep height doesn't change just because you use different arrows does it? You don't have to adjust your peep to accomodate different arrows right?


Makes perfect sense.. Like I said, stupid simple question.. :wink:




BTW, in my book, being powered by Dream Theater gets you extra credit on your answers.. :becky:


----------



## psargeant

Just for kicks, I just entered the exact same information into OT2 and AM for my bow (I've been using the AM marks) and got some interesting results...

OT2 and AM did not agree on *any* marks but the shot in ones (I only checked the 5's)... what is even more weird is that they never really crossed over. OT2 recommended a shorter setting from 15-19 yards. They agreed at 20 (a shot in mark), then OT2 started offering a shorter setting at 21-59 (as much as 10 clicks), they agreed at 60 (another shot in), then from 61-out to 80 OT2 offered shorter settings again...

Most of the numbers were reasonably close, but weird how they never crossed over. Hard to tell which program to believe...I've used OT2 for several years, but AM hasn't let me down so far either...


----------



## The Swami

JawsDad said:


> Makes perfect sense.. Like I said, stupid simple question.. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, in my book, being powered by Dream Theater gets you extra credit on your answers.. :becky:


There is no stupid question, just stupid answers. Just think by asking that question, you may have helped a bunch of others who didn't think it wise enough to ask the question.


----------



## Jomas

The sight I use is the Sward Centurion, but I still don't understand how to use the program, tomorrow I'll take some time to enter my bow details and see if I can make some sense of it all. I still don't know what a "mark" is on the program, how do they translate into marks on the sight?


----------



## BowDadToo

Ok, so it's a Sword Centurian: 

http://www.swordsight.com/products.html

From the picture I can't tell if it has etched sight marks, like the scale on a ruler, on the far side of the sight does it?

I'll contact their tech support for the technical details, then post a solution for you.

--Scott


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## Jomas

Thanks for the interest Scott, the sight has no marks on the slide, I just shoot and draw my own tapes.
Can you please explain exactly how I can use this program, outside of a field archery tournamnet? I am at a bit of a loss, but I'm hoping I'll be able to find some use for it!


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## BowDadToo

Once we can understand the movement of the sight you can print out a graduated scale, sight tape. Then with AM you can use it to tell you where you need to be along the sight tape to shoot any shot from 6 yards out to 110 yards in 1 yard increments.


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## BowDadToo

Jomas said:


> Thanks for the interest Scott, the sight has no marks on the slide, I just shoot and draw my own tapes.
> Can you please explain exactly how I can use this program, outside of a field archery tournamnet? I am at a bit of a loss, but I'm hoping I'll be able to find some use for it!


I've contacted Sword Archery to learn more about this sight and how AM can be used with it.


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## Unclegus

Good Lord, I've just read the six pages of these post on AM, I have a headache now. I still use the first AA on the Sharp pocket computer that I bought fifteen years ago. I can definitely identify with the older people and new apps.........


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## BowDadToo

Unclegus said:


> Good Lord, I've just read the six pages of these post on AM, I have a headache now. I still use the first AA on the Sharp pocket computer that I bought fifteen years ago. I can definitely identify with the older people and new apps.........


Sorry about all the posts, but people are excited and interested.

It's actually far easier to use then AA on a Palm, not sure about the Sharp. During development I spent a considerable amount of time using AA on the Palm. Archer's Mark is laid out to look like a typical Marks Card that most Target archers are familiar with.

--Scott


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## Xs24-7

I decided to go to a 3-D shoot this weekend and had no marks...entered a 20 yard mark, and a 40 yard mark...along with my measurements...every mark from 20-70m was right on...checked the marks at the shoot on a couple practice targets that were at a steep angle and the clinometer was perfect...
The only weird thing is that it estimates my arrow speed at 338 fps, when I know I am going 296(57#Vantage Elite 30.4" draw, 342 grain ACE 400)...any ideas on why the spped is estimated too high?


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## JawsDad

Xs24-7 said:


> I decided to go to a 3-D shoot this weekend and had no marks...entered a 20 yard mark, and a 40 yard mark...along with my measurements...every mark from 20-70m was right on...checked the marks at the shoot on a couple practice targets that were at a steep angle and the clinometer was perfect...
> The only weird thing is that it estimates my arrow speed at 338 fps, when I know I am going 296(57#Vantage Elite 30.4" draw, 342 grain ACE 400)...any ideas on why the spped is estimated too high?


See post #211 above.


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## IGluIt4U

JawsDad said:


> I have a stupid simple question, and it's probably answered if I would RTFM :wink:.
> 
> Peep to arrow measurement. Should it be to the center line of the arrow?
> 
> With my little arrows it's not so critical since the distance from the top to the center is fairly small. But, some of these larger arrows can have a more significant change which I would assume might change the calcs in AM slightly.


Yes... to the centerline of the shaft..


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## tichound

*AM ipod touch*

I have a question. I went to redding CA to shoot the bottom 14 Sat. I have some Modified marks and the 80 yds setting is one of them. So I tapped in 7 degree downhill cut. The mark I got did not cut the modified mark, it cut the first set of marks. How do you get it to cut the modified mark.


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## BowDadToo

tichound said:


> I have a question. I went to redding CA to shoot the bottom 14 Sat. I have some Modified marks and the 80 yds setting is one of them. So I tapped in 7 degree downhill cut. The mark I got did not cut the modified mark, it cut the first set of marks. How do you get it to cut the modified mark.


Sorry, that's working as designed. We only cut the most "trusted" mark. If you make it a shot-in then we'll cut that mark because you've identified via the shot-in designation that you trust it. Does this make sense?


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## Unclegus

OK, boys and girls, this is where it all began. I'm still using it fifteen years down the road. You guys who know about such things, without rereading all of this thread, if I go to Archer's Mark, What exactly should I buy to put the program on?????. I don't have an Iphone, so which I touch should I buy???? Completely lost here. and try to make it as simple for a simple mind as you can...


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## pragmatic_lee

UG, to the best of my knowledge any of the "Touch" line of iPods should work. Now there are iPods that are not in the Touch line. I bought a refurbished gen 1 from Apple, but it appears I got real lucky. Tried several times since to buy another one and they never seem to have them any more.

Come on down to DCWC for the Extravaganza and you'll see lots of iPhones & iPod Touches in use. Many one of the folks that purchased "new" will chime in. 

Oh and talking about "where it started", I've shot with AA marks from a Palm several times. Good product, just not supported any more and didn't have quite the convenience factor that AM has. :shade:


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## Unclegus

Maby I'll get to see one or two at the Dogwood next weekend at Roanoke. You guys coming up????


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## pragmatic_lee

Unclegus said:


> Maby I'll get to see one or two at the Dogwood next weekend at Roanoke. You guys coming up????


Probably won't be able to make it this year. Any Sat. we're not having a shoot here, I am trying to work on my range.


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## Spoon13

Unclegus said:


> OK, boys and girls, this is where it all began. I'm still using it fifteen years down the road. You guys who know about such things, without rereading all of this thread, if I go to Archer's Mark, What exactly should I buy to put the program on?????. I don't have an Iphone, so which I touch should I buy???? Completely lost here. and try to make it as simple for a simple mind as you can...


How do you search the web or read your email on such a small screen??:dontknow:


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## BowDadToo

Unclegus said:


> if I go to Archer's Mark, What exactly should I buy to put the program on?????. I don't have an Iphone, so which I touch should I buy???? Completely lost here. and try to make it as simple for a simple mind as you can...


Go to eBay and any "iPod Touch" unit will work, both my son and Prag use Generation 1 units with 8GB of storage. These should be on eBay now for under $100. Plus they play music and movies too.


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## Unclegus

BowDadToo said:


> Go to eBay and any "iPod Touch" unit will work, both my son and Prag use Generation 1 units with 8GB of storage. These should be on eBay now for under $100. Plus they play music and movies too.


Thanks, this is EXACTLY the kind of answer I was hoping for. I'm pretty ignorant on this stuff...


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## slickrickjr57

*numbers are not very accurate*

I recently purchased an Ipod touch, and downloaded Archer's Mark. I currently am using Archer's Advantage. I shot in a 20 and 50 yard marks, and entered all the info in Archer's Mark, and Archer's Advantage. I used a chronograph and my bow was shooting 274 fps. When I downloaded all the info in A.M. it said my speed was 292 fps. My A.A said it was 273 fps, only 1fps different than the chonograph. Needless to say, the marks are more accurate on A.A. than A.M. most of the problem was the lower yardages on A.M. shot too high. It seems to me with the info you input into both programs, that it's only natural the A.A. would be more accurate. Any thoughts on this? I'm open to suggestions. I purchased the Ipod, because I had really hoped the A.M. would work. Seems to me, it doesn't. I really looked forward to using the inclometer, on field shoots, but how can I if the numbers are not accurate.
By the way, I used two different chronograph's, and they both said 274 fps.


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## russch

*Same Issue - High on Short Marks*

I have the same issue and apparently many others do as well. The AA marks and measurements are right on! The AM short marks are high and arrow speed is also higher than measured by both the AA program and the chronograph. Measurements as taken of bow etc are accurate. What I did was take the AA marks and entered them into the AM short marks. Then print this for my reference guide. I also can use the iPod to view if I wish.

My hope is that the developers will take our concerns and observations into account and make some adjustments. I am not an engineer or a physicist so I do not understand the mathmatical needs of the program. But, it is surprising that so little information is needed to arrive at the marks. This in comparison to AA or TAP.

All in all I enjoy using the program and having it available on my iPod is way cool! Over time I would assume little updates will be made to make it come more in line with the marks generated by the other established programs.


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## Unclegus

Maby I'll just stick with my old AA and my inclinometer. The inclinometer in the ipod is what really sold me...


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## golfingguy27

I am a newbie to field archery this year, but have been to 3 shoots so far and my skills are improving, but I am far from being the most consistent test shooter for AM. That being said, I have had very good luck with AM so far. I am not alone in that either. There are several guys in my local area that are much better shooters than me, that are satisfied with the results. I'm not saying none of us had to do any tweaking, but with minimal effort I think AM can be just as accurate as anything else. Prior to last week, I had the two shot in marks and a few adjusted marks to get things very close to where they needed to be. Last week I made some changes in my setup, and therefore had to re-measure my peep to pin and peep to arrow numbers for AM. I did that Saturday night before a Sunday shoot and had no time to go shoot in any in between marks. To my surprise everything from the 20 footer to the 80 yarder were dead on. I think the two measurements we need to take are just very critical. If you get them right everything is good.. if not, the short yardage marks suffer. Just my observations as a newbie. I've been using AM for about 2 months now.


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## slickrickjr57

*marks off*

I can assure you that my marks are on. The A.M. is just not very accurate. How do you explain the fact that my A.A. marks are perfect, and my fps is not even close with A.M. That other thing that is dissappointing is that Lancaster Archery(which I live 2 miles from) supports this program, and if you go in to ask them a question about it, they don't know the first thing about A.M. How can you sponsor something you know nothing about?


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## JawsDad

The FPS issue has been addressed previously. See post #211.


As far as LAS supporting/promoting/sponsoring the program. Sometimes companies support innovation. Sometimes that innovation is not even any further along that existing in the brain of a developer. How many development efforts do you think would get off the ground if they were not supported until they reached 100% completion? I can tell you, not many.

There is more to it than putting in shoot in marks. How accurate were your measurements, arrow weight and diameter?


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## slickrickjr57

*Accurate*

My measurements were very accurate. How do you explain that my numbers are perfect on A.A.?


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## JawsDad

Not trying to explain your AA marks.. I don't use it so I can't comment.



Many others have used AM and found the results to be quite accurate (FPS issue not withstanding). I'm still working on my marks to get them as accurate as I want before I pass final judgement, but so far, I've found it to be pretty much spot on.


I believe others have posted also that 20/50 might not be the best distances to use. I think 30 has been the better choice for the near distance mark. I'm pulling that from memory though so I could be off there.


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## golfingguy27

I can only speak for myself when I say that I am very happy with AM so far. I can also say that even if it takes a little "tweaking" to get things just right, I am perfectly happy with that at this point too. Now if AM had been around for 5 years and I paid $50 for the software, I would be a little upset if I didn't get dead on mark right off the bat. I like having new gadgets and technology, so I will continue to support AM and judging by the product they already have and the work they continue to put into it, I don't think I will be disappointed with it any time in the near future.


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## USNarcher

I use 30 and 80 for my marks. I have no issue with accuracy. Shot through a Chrono and was within 1fps of the programs carculations.


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## pragmatic_lee

Folks,
Scott has been in NYC all week with limited internet access. We have been talking via the phone and he is aware that some folks are having issues with their short marks. I am sure he will be looking at this over the weekend.

One on the nations top archers has emailed his marks sheet directly from AM. From that Scott will be able to make comparisons between AM and other archery ballistics programs.

Of course something like this is going to present challenges especially when all is fine with some and not with others.


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## slickrickjr57

*a.m.*

On my comments that I made about short yardage numbers being off, I'm not trying to badmouth A.M.. I'm just saying the short yardage marks are off, and the fps is not even close. I purchased a new Ipod touch just to get Archer's Mark, so I really want it to work badly. I'm just dissappointed, that's all. If they fix these issues, I will gladly use it. No one wants it to work anymore than I do. I hope these things can be fixed, but until then, I'm using my Archer's advantage. I find it hard to beleive that they can get accurate numbers with the little bit of information that is required to set it up.


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## BowDadToo

*Bow speed & Near Marks*

First, thank you all for purchasing AM, we really do appreciate your business.

Sorry about my lack of communication the past few days, I've been in NYC since Sunday doing a trade show and meeting with customers for my normal job so my time and internet access was very limited.

First on bow speed. Some people are within a yard or two while others are off by it seems 10 or more yards. If you are one of those people please click print in setup and send me your marks card, and please include in that email the actual measured value as I'm doing an in depth analysis this weekend of these variations and the more data points I receive the more accurate I can make things in the next release. When you click print and follow the process put "am" at "ffxcorp.com" in the to field of the email.

With regard to weak near marks, inside say 15 yards, I'd also like marks cards from those people as well who feel their marks are off. 

Essentially I'm planning on doing a detailed analysis of all these submitted marks cards generated by AM against TAP and AA to see where differences lie and if any correlations exist. 

Also I'm going to work on the bow speed calculation over the next week or so and see if we can bring it in alignment with instrumented values.

As you can see from my history this should be my 180th post, well over 150 of those have been in support of AM. I'm listening, we continue to innovate, and hopefully soon I'll have a solution to both the bow speed and the near marks issues previously mentioned. 

Thank you all for your support, and your business we greatly appreciate both.


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## slickrickjr57

*marks*

Scott, if you have a fax number, I have both my am and aa numbers with me, I could fax them to you to look over,
Rick


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## BowDadToo

Rick,

PM with fax number has been sent. The machine is ready and standing by, thank you.

--Scott


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## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark moving forward.*

Fellow Archer's lend me your marks! 

The first 20 archers that send me their marks via "Setup" then "Print" will receive a free code for Archer's Excuses (Ver. 1.1), a novelty application for the iPhone/iPod Touch platform. Use the email address "am" at "ffxcorp.com" and please include your AT handle and your bow speed from a chronograph if you know it. If you already have Archer's Excuses say so and I'll send you a code for Golfer's Excuses when we release it later this week or next.

It has been pointed out that for some archers their near marks, particularly under 15 yards, are a little weak. For many the arrow speed is off what a chronograph reports. I've collected several new sets of data in the past few days but I'd like to be working with an even bigger collection. The more data points the better I can ensure that we're delivering the BEST marks program on the market.

So please send me your marks cards via the "Print" button in "Setup".

Thank you all.


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## IGluIt4U

Marks sent.. 

Btw.. my speed shown now is much more realistic than it was in earlier versions.. it was putting my up over 300, around 305-308 and I'm actually measuring 276. It now shows my speed at 271, but I have a bit of fine-tuning to do, and I'm waitin til I swap out my cables and string before I tweak it. .


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## BowDadToo

Sticky, thank you... 

I'll send your AE code out tonight when I have access to that system.


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## DarkFORCE

Email sent.


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## VA Vince

Ok, so today was my REAL test of AM. I had the right arrows this time and a GOOD 20 and 60. 15 yards and under were off, as well as my 80. The 80 could have been anchor issue but still off, almost shooting a 3. Bunny marks were off by 6 clicks. I was shooting top of the spot most of the day and probably need to do some more fine tuneing. All and all, I am very confident in the app. I will say this is a great app and reccomend it to any archer out there. I have not checked my speed nor do I care, Thanks Scott for Archers Mark!


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## pops1

pragmatic_lee said:


> Folks,
> Scott has been in NYC all week with limited internet access. We have been talking via the phone and he is aware that some folks are having issues with their short marks. I am sure he will be looking at this over the weekend.
> 
> One on the nations top archers has emailed his marks sheet directly from AM. From that Scott will be able to make comparisons between AM and other archery ballistics programs.
> 
> Of course something like this is going to present challenges especially when all is fine with some and not with others.


No problem with the short marks here. I used 20 and 50 to get my marks and they seem to be spot on for my setup. Program works flawless for me. Much better than the program I was using before.


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## short-n-fast

20 and a 60 here , punched in the rest of the info , double checked my measurements , and my marks are perfect. Made a tape for my sight with AA with the same marks , and there almost identical..... works great for me. Speeds are off ,,,,but i never really payed to much attention to those on AA either ,,,,except when using the palm , i could raise or lower the speeds to bring in the marks ,,,if i was just using the program on my palm. 

Great program here,,,,

One thing i do do that may be different from others , I run a line across the target butt instead of a target to shoot at , this way i don't have to concentrate on the spot , just try to get a good height to run in the program,,,works great for me....


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## USNarcher

I shot Darrington this weekend and posted a personal best for a State Safari 1527 on the Bobcat course, very challenging. Just like Redding, 70 targets from 101 to 4 yards. AM was dead on for me. I couldn't be happier with the inclinometer function. Even in pouring down rain. My iTouch works way better through a plastic bag than a palm does.

I know that you guys know what your doing but the peep height is crucial. Center of the peep to the top of the arrow at full draw. I use a caliper for this measurement. I love my new Hooter Shooter because it makes taking all these measurements so much easier. Like I have said before, I use 30 and 80 for my marks and double check with the 6 yard mark. I just wich that AM would go down to 3 yards.


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## golfingguy27

USNarcher said:


> I know that you guys know what your doing but the peep height is crucial. Center of the peep to the top of the arrow at full draw. I use a caliper for this measurement. I love my new Hooter Shooter because it makes taking all these measurements so much easier. Like I have said before, I use 30 and 80 for my marks and double check with the 6 yard mark. I just wich that AM would go down to 3 yards.


Wait.. am I doing it wrong? I thought it was to the center of the arrow??


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## slickrickjr57

*peep heighth*

I'ts supposed to be center of peep, to center of arrow at full draw. Not the top of the arrow.


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## short-n-fast

peep is huge,thats why I get exact measurements ,, there is no room for error on them.


gotta tell ya,,,,I had a problem once , I pulled out my lens to clean it , and when i put it back in the housing , I reversed it:embara:,,,all my marks were low....took me a bit of backtracking , but i found the problem:shade:...


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## USNarcher

I shoot Victory Nano's out of my Commander and I measure center of peep to top of arrow. I also did the same with my Inspire and Goldtip 400's center of peep to top of arrow. One bow shoots 277fps the other shoots 296. Both marks are dead on.


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## NockOn

USNarcher said:


> I shoot Victory Nano's out of my Commander and I measure center of peep to top of arrow. I also did the same with my Inspire and Goldtip 400's center of peep to top of arrow. One bow shoots 277fps the other shoots 296. Both marks are dead on.


Maybe someone from AM can validate this?


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## BowDadToo

With all the marks I'm gathering I'll run each through TAP and AA to build a master dataset for all three programs. That will likely contain roughly 20 different configs from all ranges of shooters with a wide variety of hardware configurations. From this I can then begin doing a wider range of simulations to see the impact of changes to our core marks engine on each of these configurations.

I still have a few more free codes for Archer's Excuses available.

Thank you all....

--Scott


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## VA Vince

Marks sent

Twice I had a problem with 80 and the bunny is shooting just a tad hot. Again, I love the ease of use and the ability to adjust your marks on the go. Thanks again Scott.......


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## BowDadToo

*Fellow Archer's len me your marks*



BowDadToo said:


> Fellow Archer's lend me your marks!
> 
> The first 20 archers that send me their marks via "Setup" then "Print" will receive a free code for Archer's Excuses (Ver. 1.1), a novelty application for the iPhone/iPod Touch platform. Use the email address "am" at "ffxcorp.com" and please include your AT handle and your bow speed from a chronograph if you know it.


I would like to thank all those that provided us with their marks cards, your free copy of Archer's Excuses went out via an email a few minutes ago. Thank you all.

Given the influx of new data, and the recent discussions on AT work on version 2 of our Marks Engine is now commencing. When we have something available that provides better near marks we'll let you all know and prior to submitting it to the Apple gods. Our intent will be to run some new marks cards for each of you to ensure they're inline with your expectation prior to publishing version 1.4 of AM.

Thank you all for your business, thoughts, and great feedback.
--Scott


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## BowDadToo

*"The System" by Davis*

For those that have "The System" by Davis sight select "10 click 24 turn" from the sight list in setup. 

We've updated the description in AM, but you won't see it until we release 1.4.

Thank you.

--Scott


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## USNarcher

Thanks for everything Scott. Do you plan on adding a sight tape ability?


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## BowDadToo

*Sight tape support*

We do include the data to generate a sight tape when you click print from within setup (since version 1.3). Due to a bug in the iPhone OS Mail program that attachment often is not sent out. We're coding around this bug in Archer's Mark 1.4. For now you can just add some text AFTER the sight tape attachment in Mail, along with one more blank line, and it should be emailed out.

Pragmatic Lee developed, and is testing a program now that we'll offer free here:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/downloads.html

This program will take the sight tape datafile as input and print out an accurate sight tape.

Thank you for asking....

--Scott


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## pragmatic_lee

USNarcher said:


> Thanks for everything Scott. Do you plan on adding a sight tape ability?


Matt,
I'm working on the SightTape program for Scott and his team. I have a version done, but the language it is written in requires an install on the user's system. Not a big deal since it is free, but I'm working with a guy who is translating my code to JAVA which means it should run on Apple and/or Windows.

Another issue is that there are email problems in the OS that Apple uses on the iPod & iPhone - when more than 1 file is attached to an email, it doesn't actually attach more than just the first file. There is a work around, but it is hap-hazard at best. What Scott & I discussed a couple of days ago would be executing (automatically) 2 emails. The 2nd email would contain the file/data necessary for printing the sight tape. 

I actually have a beta version that I will be using this weekend at the DCWC Extravaganza for anyone who would like me to produce a sight tape for them.


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## JawsDad

Looking forward to trying the sight tape program. Since I changed to a silver Axcel, I've realized that seeing the scale for clicking and counting is a little hard to do if the lighting isn't that great.. 



Off topic rant: Why put a white scale on a silver mount.... :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: Worse yet, what kind of dork buys it without thinking about the implications of that.. :embara: :doh:


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## pragmatic_lee

OK - just ran a "backwards" test. Printed a sight tape on the main printer here at the office.

Using the data the tape was generated from:

80 yard mark 54.30
30 yard mark 21.90
Difference 32.40

32.40 / 24 (turns per inch for my sight) = 1.35"

Set my "precision" calipers to 1.35" and placed one pointer on the sight tape 30 yard line - lowered to other pointer and it was dead on the line for 80 yards. :darkbeer:

Now this printer is a very high end networked printer/copy machine that probably isn't what will be found in most AM user's homes. :shade: I will run this same test at DCWC on a $30 ink jet printer from WalMart. I expect the printed lines to be somewhat thicker, but the spacing should be the same.


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## JawsDad

If you need testers, let me know.. I've got printers that run the spectrum from ultra high end canon lasers to quasi-disposable inkjets..


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## pragmatic_lee

JawsDad said:


> If you need testers, let me know.. I've got printers that run the spectrum from ultra high end canon lasers to quasi-disposable inkjets..


Know what you mean about "disposable" ink-jets - you can buy a new one cheaper than an ink for your existing one.

I'm going to get as many folks as possible to test for me (us) this weekend the validity of the positioning, then I will definitely get the code to you to run some "printer" tests.


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## USNarcher

JawsDad said:


> Looking forward to trying the sight tape program. Since I changed to a silver Axcel, I've realized that seeing the scale for clicking and counting is a little hard to do if the lighting isn't that great..
> 
> 
> 
> Off topic rant: Why put a white scale on a silver mount.... :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: Worse yet, what kind of dork buys it without thinking about the implications of that.. :embara: :doh:


I had that same problem with my Copper John. I took a marker and colored the bar then wipped it off. The ink stays in the etching and you can see it then.


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## pragmatic_lee

USNarcher said:


> I had that same problem with my Copper John. I took a marker and colored the bar then wipped it off. The ink stays in the etching and you can see it then.


You took a Sharpie to your bow? :mg: 
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=821022&highlight=sharpie


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## Spoon13

pragmatic_lee said:


> Know what you mean about "disposable" ink-jets - you can buy a new one cheaper than an ink for your existing one.
> 
> I'm going to get as many folks as possible to test for me (us) this weekend the validity of the positioning, then I will definitely get the code to you to run some "printer" tests.


Let me know what I can do to help. I got a couple of inkjets here at work as well as a Ricoh laser and a Lexmark B/W laser at the house. Got tired of paying $45 for toner in a $30 printer.


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## BowDadToo

*WARNING - New feature pre-announcement*

First before I get into the exciting new item, an update. I'm knee deep in near mark analysis at this point. Sorry it's taking so long, but it's a chore and I've been dragging my feet but now I'm making progress. I will hopefully complete this in the next week and then make the following three code changes: improved near marks (those inside the near setup mark), improved far marks (typically > 90 yards), and I'll extend the ALL tab out to 130 yards.

Ok, the real news. We're meeting today to begin working out the mockups for adding scoring to Archer's mark. You will be able to define a scorecard: title it, number of ends (targets), number of arrows per end, valid scores per arrow (ex. X, 10,9, ... 1, M). If you select X as a valid score for an arrow we'll ask for the value of an X (ex. 11,10 or 5). We'll also show total X counts. 

When you're on the normal marks card page there will be a button, possibly similar to the circled "i" (info), but on the left side of the Application title for doing scoring. As you walk from the line to the target, assuming you've already setup a score card as outlined above, when you tap the scoring button it will bring up the next end on that card showing slots for all the arrows and a keypad with only the valid scores for an arrow. You can then quickly tap in all the scores, when they look good tap save and it will return to the marks card. Room permitting we may also provide a notes field where you can enter things like the range, perhaps the mark(s) for that end, conditions, mistakes, excuses, whatever....

At the completion of the game it will display the whole card with totals and there will be a print function, just like printing a marks card, that will send a PDF of the scorecard to your email address. Also you'll be able to save scorecards, copy cards, and erase cards, similar to bow management.

Thoughts, suggestions, did we miss anything really important... We can do many things, but we need to keep the scope of development manageable.

Also this will be an in-app purchased feature, not a freebee, because it requires significant new development. Given the above features what do you, our customers, think would be a fair price for this feature?


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> First before I get into the exciting new item, an update. I'm knee deep in near mark analysis at this point. Sorry it's taking so long, but it's a chore and I've been dragging my feet but now I'm making progress. I will hopefully complete this in the next week and then make the following three code changes: improved near marks (those inside the near setup mark), improved far marks (typically > 90 yards), and I'll extend the ALL tab out to 130 yards.
> 
> Ok, the real news. We're meeting today to begin working out the mockups for adding scoring to Archer's mark. You will be able to define a scorecard: title it, number of ends (targets), number of arrows per end, valid scores per arrow (ex. X, 10,9, ... 1, M). If you select X as a valid score for an arrow we'll ask for the value of an X (ex. 11,10 or 5). We'll also show total X counts.
> 
> When you're on the normal marks card page there will be a button, possibly similar to the circled "i" (info), but on the left side of the Application title for doing scoring. As you walk from the line to the target, assuming you've already setup a score card as outlined above, when you tap the scoring button it will bring up the next end on that card showing slots for all the arrows and a keypad with only the valid scores for an arrow. You can then quickly tap in all the scores, when they look good tap save and it will return to the marks card. *Room permitting we may also provide a notes field* where you can enter things like the range, perhaps the mark(s) for that end, conditions, mistakes, excuses, whatever....
> 
> At the completion of the game it will display the whole card with totals and there will be a print function, just like printing a marks card, that will send a PDF of the scorecard to your email address. Also you'll be able to save scorecards, copy cards, and erase cards, similar to bow management.
> 
> Thoughts, suggestions, did we miss anything really important... We can do many things, but we need to keep the scope of development manageable.
> 
> Also this will be an in-app purchased feature, not a freebee, because it requires significant new development. Given the above features what do you, our customers, think would be a fair price for this feature?


Sounds great Scott, but PLEASE "make room" for the Notes field. I'm in no way interested in listing excuses, etc., but it is imperative that there be a place to record the distance when shooting an outdoor game.

Based on our phone call yesterday, here is how I would envision using this "in app" feature at, say, DCWC front half set up for Field:
Before I even got to the range I would create a "Score Card" titled, DCWC Front Field.
It would be set up for 14 ends/4 arrows per end
End 1 would have a note: 50 yards
End 2 would have a note: 30 yards
End 3 would have a note: Birdie
...
End 14 would have a note: 40 yards
Since I don't normally count X's, I'd set up scoring as 5,4,3,0.

Once at the range, I would "duplicate" this blank score card and add the date to the title: DCWC Front Field 05/21/10

I'd also create DCWC blank scores cards for:
DCWC Front Hunter
DCWC Back Field
DCWC Back Hunter
Yadkin Field
Yadkin Hunter
S+W Field
S+W Hunter
and all the other ranges I shoot on a normal basis

Then, like you pointed out, as I'm shooting the game, it's just a matter of tapping the button and entering my score as I progress through each target.

Looking forward to being a "beta" tester. :wink:

As far as the price, I'm going to :zip:, as I know from years of programming experience, it's hard to set a price that truly reflects what it takes to create an application, but on the other hand, as a buyer it's hard to pay high $ for something that "seems" so simple. All in all, the amount you mentioned on the phone yesterday sounds very reasonable as a buyer and way too cheap as a developer. :wink:


----------



## psargeant

pragmatic_lee said:


> Sounds great Scott, but PLEASE "make room" for the Notes field. I'm in no way interested in listing excuses, etc., but it is imperative that there be a place to record the distance when shooting an outdoor game.
> 
> Based on our phone call yesterday, here is how I would envision using this "in app" feature at, say, DCWC front half set up for Field:
> Before I even got to the range I would create a "Score Card" titled, DCWC Front Field.
> It would be set up for 14 ends/4 arrows per end
> End 1 would have a note: 50 yards
> End 2 would have a note: 30 yards
> End 3 would have a note: Birdie
> ...
> End 14 would have a note: 40 yards
> Since I don't normally count X's, I'd set up scoring as 5,4,3,0.
> 
> Once at the range, I would "duplicate" this blank score card and add the date to the title: DCWC Front Field 05/21/10
> 
> I'd also create DCWC blank scores cards for:
> DCWC Front Hunter
> DCWC Back Field
> DCWC Back Hunter
> Yadkin Field
> Yadkin Hunter
> S+W Field
> S+W Hunter
> and all the other ranges I shoot on a normal basis
> 
> Then, like you pointed out, as I'm shooting the game, it's just a matter of tapping the button and entering my score as I progress through each target.
> 
> Looking forward to being a "beta" tester. :wink:
> 
> As far as the price, I'm going to :zip:, as I know from years of programming experience, it's hard to set a price that truly reflects what it takes to create an application, but on the other hand, as a buyer it's hard to pay high $ for something that "seems" so simple. All in all, the amount you mentioned on the phone yesterday sounds very reasonable as a buyer and way too cheap as a developer. :wink:


That's definitely how I would like to see it function and very close to the way I would use it...

Sign me up for beta testing if you like too...


----------



## VA Vince

That sounds great Scott, as for price I have no idea. $5? You just release it and I am gonna buy it. But I am not buying anymore archery stuff! This C classer needs alot of string time!


----------



## APAnTN

BowDadToo said:


> First before I get into the exciting new item, an update. I'm knee deep in near mark analysis at this point. Sorry it's taking so long, but it's a chore and I've been dragging my feet but now I'm making progress. I will hopefully complete this in the next week and then make the following three code changes: improved near marks (those inside the near setup mark), improved far marks (typically > 90 yards), and I'll extend the ALL tab out to 130 yards.
> 
> Ok, the real news. We're meeting today to begin working out the mockups for adding scoring to Archer's mark. You will be able to define a scorecard: title it, number of ends (targets), number of arrows per end, valid scores per arrow (ex. X, 10,9, ... 1, M). If you select X as a valid score for an arrow we'll ask for the value of an X (ex. 11,10 or 5). We'll also show total X counts.
> 
> When you're on the normal marks card page there will be a button, possibly similar to the circled "i" (info), but on the left side of the Application title for doing scoring. As you walk from the line to the target, assuming you've already setup a score card as outlined above, when you tap the scoring button it will bring up the next end on that card showing slots for all the arrows and a keypad with only the valid scores for an arrow. You can then quickly tap in all the scores, when they look good tap save and it will return to the marks card. Room permitting we may also provide a notes field where you can enter things like the range, perhaps the mark(s) for that end, conditions, mistakes, excuses, whatever....
> 
> At the completion of the game it will display the whole card with totals and there will be a print function, just like printing a marks card, that will send a PDF of the scorecard to your email address. Also you'll be able to save scorecards, copy cards, and erase cards, similar to bow management.
> 
> Thoughts, suggestions, did we miss anything really important... We can do many things, but we need to keep the scope of development manageable.
> 
> Also this will be an in-app purchased feature, not a freebee, because it requires significant new development. Given the above features what do you, our customers, think would be a fair price for this feature?


Will this be setup for field only or can we use the score card for 3d with scoring like 14,12,10,8,5&0

thanks


----------



## IGluIt4U

Great idea and yes, I'd buy it.. :lol: :thumb:

I agree with Lee, notes would be most helpful to note the target details/or #.

Just redid my Cat with some Hinky threads, made a few minor changes in setup and shot a round yesterday using AM marks from shooting in a 25 and 50 mark. Never shot past 60 til the shoot. My first 80 was an X, my marks were dead on from 20-80, just my bunnies were off a bit, but after dropping 2 on the first bunny shootin the top of the dot, I got em all second time around.. :chortle:

I love this program.. :cheers: :tongue: :becky:


----------



## Canjapan2003

*metric?*

how can i input metric sight marks for fita field distances?


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Canjapan2003 said:


> how can i input metric sight marks for fita field distances?


The "current" version requires that input (setup) data be in yards; however, after you enter the data, you simply select "Metric" and all "computed" distances will be converted and displayed as meters.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Score Card Feature*



APAnTN said:


> Will this be setup for field only or can we use the score card for 3d with scoring like 14,12,10,8,5&0
> 
> thanks


In setup for the marks card we're likely going to have a field and an animal button so you can rapidly setup a card for these two games. Otherwise you'll have to enter number of ends, arrows/end, valid scores/arrow, value of X, ...

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Hey Scott, tell your "partner" that if I don't answer my cell phone at night it's a pretty sure bet I won't answer my home phone either. Of course that isn't to say that the wife won't answer the home phone then come wake me up. :shade:

Some of us have to have our "beauty rest".


----------



## BowDadToo

*Score Card Feature*

Lee,

He wasn't all that thrilled that I let the score card feature out of the bag just yet, and I'm sure he wanted to run some ideas past you since he's a night owl and all.

I'll ask that he try and get ahold of you before the sun sets as you need as much beauty sleep as you can get 

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Lee,
> 
> He wasn't all that thrilled that I let the score card feature out of the bag just yet, and I'm sure he wanted to run some ideas past you since he's a night owl and all.
> 
> I'll ask that he try and get ahold of you before the sun sets as you need as much beauty sleep as you can get
> 
> --Scott


He'll get over it - he just wanted to know if I knew of an archery game that shot more than 5 arrows per end. Of course I knew you had already told him there was such a game. "Designers" are like teenagers - can't live with them and can't shoot them either. 

I didn't think about it until I was laying there trying to go back to sleep, but I'd surely have no problem flipping the device on the side (landscape) if that's what it takes to get the required (desired) columns for the scoring portion.


----------



## NockOn

I know I brought it up before but I would love to see a way to input my 2 marks in Meters vs Yards. I was at the range the other day and didn't have my notes on what 60 yds is in Meters and the range is marked only in Meters. 

When I did use Meters converted ot Yards before, it appeared to me that the software just rounded off the number.

Also, why is it that if I set my sight for 2 marks, when I look at the results both marks are then off? Shouldn't both marks input remain the same?

Anyway, I still think that having the option to input in Meters would help sell your product outside the USA if that's what you're trying to accomplish...

I"m no software engineer but how hard would it be? I would even pay a premium to have that option availlable.

Cheers,



pragmatic_lee said:


> The "current" version requires that input (setup) data be in yards; however, after you enter the data, you simply select "Metric" and all "computed" distances will be converted and displayed as meters.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Yards and Meters*

Let me see what I can do, it shouldn't be that hard if Metric is set in Setup to have our setup screen accept meters and centimeters. For arrow mass do you still use grains, grams or something else?

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Metric*

I checked a German site (topshot24.de) for arrows and it appears point weight is in grams, yet arrow lengths are still in inches, which I found somewhat funny. Do folks outside the US measure the mass of their arrows in grams or grains?


----------



## NockOn

I can't speak for folks in Europe.

Here in Canada, we use Meters only for target distances.

Arrow length, diameter, Sight diameter and peep to arrow are in Inches. Bow weight is in Lbs. Arrow weight in grains. That's because the tuning charts and arrow selection charts use those measurements.

Target distance though is all in Meters for FITA Field and 1440 FITA etc...

Thanks for listening...


----------



## Canjapan2003

pragmatic_lee said:


> The "current" version requires that input (setup) data be in yards; however, after you enter the data, you simply select "Metric" and all "computed" distances will be converted and displayed as meters.


ok ,
what is the conversion factor used in AM. Not kidding when j say there isnt a yard tape any where in this country


----------



## IGluIt4U

Canjapan2003 said:


> ok ,
> what is the conversion factor used in AM. Not kidding when j say there isnt a yard tape any where in this country


There are a ton of free conversion apps for the iPhone/Pod.. I have a couple on mine, just search the iTunes store for free conversion apps..  :becky:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

I use the free version of 9-Toolbox - there's a free version (at least there was when I installed it). Has 8 very useful tools - I really had no use for the 9th one (My Girl Day) 



IGluIt4U said:


> There are a ton of free conversion apps for the iPhone/Pod.. I have a couple on mine, just search the iTunes store for free conversion apps..  :becky:


----------



## BowDadToo

*AM for Android, Blackberry, and Palm.*

Sorry guys, you're not going to see a native version for your device, the reasons are too numerous to review, but wait there's hope!!! 

You'll all have access to a web version! I've been actively coding something up and it should be in product ready form in about a month. Since you've all been so kind and understanding I thought I'd give you an exclusive sneak peek at what's going on. Please don't share this. It's only for the real AT diehards as this version is just now up on it's knees and I'm using it to test a wide variety of things. Here is the URL:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free

For another few more days I wouldn't shoot these marks, unless you have some spare arrows, and can afford to give up a few points to your friends. Math functions on the web are not exactly the same as they are on the iPhone so I'm still working through some very subtle differences. Also I'm using this code as one phase in an overall review of the marks engine. As you'll notice this version carries marks out to 125 yards, from 110 previously. 

Someday in the very near future when there's a database behind this version, it supports cut marks, and PDF generation for offline use works this free version will move to an annual paid subscription via PayPal. AM iPhone users might get a free pass, likely via their device ID, but we're still thinking through how this might work. 

Please let me know what you think, and remember do not yet share this outside our little group. This code is still very early, and I'm offering it more as a show of good faith that we're constantly moving AM forward and we've not forgotten about our loyal customers. 

Thank you all...

--Scott


----------



## IGluIt4U

But.. it defaults to a Prag Red Lizard.. :mg:  

Thanks Scott.. you've done a great job with AM. I used it this weekend to take a brand new bow out (built it Friday night) on Saturday, get a little tune, a couple of good marks and shot two full rounds, half field, half hunter on Sat and Sun. :thumb:

Without AM, I'd have not been able to do that. :cheers: :yo: :hail:


----------



## Scott.Barrett

YES! YES! YES!!!!!!!:thumbs_up




BowDadToo said:


> Sorry guys, you're not going to see a native version for your device, the reasons are too numerous to review, but wait there's hope!!!
> 
> You'll all have access to a web version! I've been actively coding something up and it should be in product ready form in about a month. Since you've all been so kind and understanding I thought I'd give you an exclusive sneak peek at what's going on. Please don't share this. It's only for the real AT diehards as this version is just now up on it's knees and I'm using it to test a wide variety of things. Here is the URL:
> 
> http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free
> 
> For another few more days I wouldn't shoot these marks, unless you have some spare arrows, and can afford to give up a few points to your friends. Math functions on the web are not exactly the same as they are on the iPhone so I'm still working through some very subtle differences. Also I'm using this code as one phase in an overall review of the marks engine. As you'll notice this version carries marks out to 125 yards, from 110 previously.
> 
> Someday in the very near future when there's a database behind this version, it supports cut marks, and PDF generation for offline use works this free version will move to an annual paid subscription via PayPal. AM iPhone users might get a free pass, likely via their device ID, but we're still thinking through how this might work.
> 
> Please let me know what you think, and remember do not yet share this outside our little group. This code is still very early, and I'm offering it more as a show of good faith that we're constantly moving AM forward and we've not forgotten about our loyal customers.
> 
> Thank you all...
> 
> --Scott


----------



## TH1972

BowDadToo said:


> Do folks outside the US measure the mass of their arrows in grams or grains?


Following this discussion even though I'm just getting an HTC Desire..

But living in Finland, Europe and competing in archery I thought I'll provide my 2 cents.

This might be "basic info" for some, but I'll take it from the start:

1 grain is about 1/16 grams. This leads most archers to use grain scales when weighing arrows. But for length it is the opposite, 1 millimeter being 1/25,4 inch, so there I go for millimeters.

This leading to where lengths are metric and weight in grains (most spine calculators work with grains as well?).

I hope this was to some help.

Regards,
Fincop


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Looking very good Scott. You can't believe how hard I had to bite my tongue last weekend at DCWC. While we were eating the topic of AM came up - I did not let any cats out of the bag, but did just kinda smiled and let everyone know that I knew something they didn't about AM. :wink:

Do you expect another release with the improved close/far marks before the Hillbilly, even if that "other addition" isn't ready? :zip:

Prag




BowDadToo said:


> Sorry guys, you're not going to see a native version for your device, the reasons are too numerous to review, but wait there's hope!!!
> 
> You'll all have access to a web version! I've been actively coding something up and it should be in product ready form in about a month. Since you've all been so kind and understanding I thought I'd give you an exclusive sneak peek at what's going on. Please don't share this. It's only for the real AT diehards as this version is just now up on it's knees and I'm using it to test a wide variety of things. Here is the URL:
> 
> http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free
> 
> For another few more days I wouldn't shoot these marks, unless you have some spare arrows, and can afford to give up a few points to your friends. Math functions on the web are not exactly the same as they are on the iPhone so I'm still working through some very subtle differences. Also I'm using this code as one phase in an overall review of the marks engine. As you'll notice this version carries marks out to 125 yards, from 110 previously.
> 
> Someday in the very near future when there's a database behind this version, it supports cut marks, and PDF generation for offline use works this free version will move to an annual paid subscription via PayPal. AM iPhone users might get a free pass, likely via their device ID, but we're still thinking through how this might work.
> 
> Please let me know what you think, and remember do not yet share this outside our little group. This code is still very early, and I'm offering it more as a show of good faith that we're constantly moving AM forward and we've not forgotten about our loyal customers.
> 
> Thank you all...
> 
> --Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Re: AM for Android, Blackberry, and Palm.*

So I'm using a language called PHP for web programming and let me tell you things are fast and loose in this world. 

One lower to uppercase typo and I lost hours trying to find out why my marks in 'C' versus 'PHP' were ever so slightly different. It's like BASIC in the olden days, almost anything goes.

Also it appears I get about six significant digits then things fall off, but that I can live with for now.

Anyways the web version and the iPhone version now appear to align so the comment about not using the marks on the FREE web version has been removed, shoot away!

Now I'm crawling through both the bow speed issue and my marks inside the near range provided to see if things can be improved further. This will be completed for both versions of AM, before I move on to further improving the web version. 

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> So I'm using a language called PHP for web programming and let me tell you things are fast and loose in this world.
> 
> One lower to uppercase typo and I lost hours trying to find out why my marks in 'C' versus 'PHP' were ever so slightly different. It's like BASIC in the olden days, almost anything goes.
> 
> Also it appears I get about six significant digits then things fall off, but that I can live with for now.
> 
> Anyways the web version and the iPhone version now appear to align so the comment about not using the marks on the FREE web version has been removed, shoot away!
> 
> Now I'm crawling through both the bow speed issue and my marks inside the near range provided to see if things can be improved further. This will be completed for both versions of AM, before I move on to further improving the web version.
> 
> --Scott


PHP  A good web host would provide you with ooRexx (remember decimal arithmetic vs. binary floating point?) :wink:


----------



## Canjapan2003

*687 fps???*

Set up for my recurve (check my sig).
Bow info page says arrow speed 687! Wow! Did I find a bug? 
Needless to say the calculated marks were WAY off. 

I would also be very happy to see the metric input option for known sight marks.


----------



## BowDadToo

*687 fps???*

For some reason the reported arrow speed on the iPhone version is 687 using the setup data you provided in a PM to me earlier, thank you. When I use the same values in the free web version, note I added two additional diagnostic print values, the launch angle and bow speed, I get a more reasonable value of 217 fps. This is very interesting and extremely useful.

On a side note to all you non-peep sight shooters, make sure you measure the peep to pin value from the pin to where a peep sight would be. Use the line of sight from your eye to the pin as it crosses your bow string, and measure from that point on your bowstring to the pin. Suppose the additional distance to your eye is 3", which depending on your anchor might be reasonable, in the above case the bow speed goes from 217 (with the extra 3") down to 209. This will also affect your marks.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Android, Blackberry, Palm, Windows Mobile, version of AM*

I'm confident that this version is now usable for you non-iPhoneOS folks:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free

Note that now you have to select the marks card you want at the bottom of the form, and that to see the setup info you have to select that instead of a marks card, bow speed is at the bottom of the setup page.

The next feature will be a simple form at the bottom of each marks card that lets you email that card to yourself. Hopefully that will be completed by this weekend in time for some of you who would like it for various competitions.

Good luck, and great shooting...

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> I'm confident that this version is now usable for you non-iPhoneOS folks:
> 
> http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free
> 
> Note that now you have to select the marks card you want at the bottom of the form, and that to see the setup info you have to select that instead of a marks card, bow speed is at the bottom of the setup page.
> 
> The next feature will be a simple form at the bottom of each marks card that lets you email that card to yourself. Hopefully that will be completed by this weekend in time for some of you who would like it for various competitions.
> 
> Good luck, and great shooting...
> 
> --Scott


Looks GREAT Scott!


----------



## BowDadToo

*Android, Blackberry, Palm, Windows Mobile, version of AM*

Prag, thank you.

Under Canjapan2003 guidance/request I'm also adding a FITA card in meters, should be completed within the hour.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Prag, thank you.
> 
> Under Canjapan2003 guidance/request I'm also adding a FITA card in meters, should be completed within the hour.
> 
> --Scott


Pseudo "back" and "print" buttons when using "browser" would be convenient. :wink:

Edit: At the bottom of the results screens


----------



## BowDadToo

*Full FITA 5-90M now available*

Ok, so the web version now has "Full FITA 5-90M" available as a marks card selection. Any other "serious" marks card requests for the Web version?

How about one where you enter a single specific range, select the units (feet, yards, meters) and it spits out the mark for that exactly. This would be for those who do those 123.5 yard fun shoots. Would you all like that option?

Prag great suggestion on "Print" doing that via an email form and should have that completed today/tonight. 

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Ok, so the web version now has "Full FITA 5-90M" available as a marks card selection. Any other "serious" marks card requests for the Web version?
> 
> *How about one where you enter a single specific range*, select the units (feet, yards, meters) and it spits out the mark for that exactly. This would be for those who do those 123.5 yard fun shoots. Would you all like that option?
> 
> Prag great suggestion on "Print" doing that via an email form and should have that completed today/tonight.
> 
> --Scott


That would be great, especially if you added the ability to enter a +- angle which would give a cut mark. :wink:

You asked :tongue:


----------



## Spoon13

BowDadToo said:


> Ok, so the web version now has "Full FITA 5-90M" available as a marks card selection. Any other "serious" marks card requests for the Web version?
> 
> How about one where you enter a single specific range, select the units (feet, yards, meters) and it spits out the mark for that exactly. This would be for those who do those 123.5 yard fun shoots. Would you all like that option?
> 
> Prag great suggestion on "Print" doing that via an email form and should have that completed today/tonight.
> 
> --Scott


How about a customizable output format. Instead of just Field, Hunter, FITA, and ALL, have the ability to "Build" a custom list of yardages for print.

Remember, I run a sewing machine for a living, I don't have to actually worry about how to make that stuff happen.


----------



## BowDadToo

Spoon, a custom marks card, hummm... That will for sure have to wait a week or so until I have a real database tied in, but it's a great idea, thank you.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Scott,
Just tried this with my iPod Touch and chose iPhone as my "Device Type". Received this message:
"Your Device Type (iPhone) and Browser Platform (iPod) do not match."

Will the Touch be supported?

Thanks
Prag


----------



## BowDadToo

The iPod Touch should be supported and now is. 

Seems I was too smart for my own good. It seems the iPod Touch doesn't set the "Browser Platform" variable to "iPhone" it actually sets it to "iPod". The code has been updated. Sorry.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> The iPod Touch should be supported and now is.
> 
> Seems I was too smart for my own good. It seems the iPod Touch doesn't set the "Browser Platform" variable to "iPhone" it actually sets it to "iPod". The code has been updated. Sorry.
> 
> --Scott


Kinda figured it was a literal match vs. a logical one. :wink:


----------



## BowDadToo

So I got my cookies out of the oven late last night. 

This allows me to pass bow settings from one page to the next, and even login session to the next session. With this I'm pretty sure I can turn on emailing marks. Hopefully that code will be finished today so folks can test it out this weekend.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Web version of AM*

As promised we now having "printing", well actually "email" support for the web version of Archer's Mark now online, enjoy! 

Try it out and let me know what you think. Most of the data points you provide will be cached in cookies so you won't have to re-enter them between sessions.

Enjoy.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

Web development is certainly interesting. Old orphaned code was causing printing issues. Everything is now resolved, with print/email support.

I'm still working through some cookie issues, only the first word of the bow name is saved, and I've yet to figure out how to use cookies to force a default drop down menu value, but I'm working on both now. 

Enjoy!

--Scott


----------



## IGluIt4U

More chocolate chips.. it always makes the cookies work better.. or is that taste better??? :noidea: :set1_thinking:


----------



## BowDadToo

Sticky thanks for the words of encouragement.

I'm happy with the current version, for now. 

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free

I'm working next on adding a custom range page where you enter the numerical range, select the units, angle up/down, then it computes the mark.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Sticky thanks for the words of encouragement.
> 
> I'm happy with the current version, for now.
> 
> http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free
> 
> I'm working next on adding a custom range page where you enter the numerical range, select the units, angle up/down, then it computes the mark.
> 
> --Scott


Scott, now that you have the cookies working, it will probably be hard for you to detect this "little bug". Actually it's not a bug, since it doesn't alter the outcome, but still is something you might want to spray a little RAID on.

The first time a user loads this page, the input field for the email address has a default value in it (Size = 40") or something to that effect. Other than that it looks and works great.

:thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up


----------



## BowDadToo

Lee thank you, I can toss my cookies and likely make this happen. 

Right now I'm knee deep in a custom marks page where you enter the numeric range, units and elevation up/down and it computes a specific mark for you. When I push this version out it will include a fix for the issue you brought up, again, thank you.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

For all the dads I've released a Father's Day version of Archer's Mark for the web. This version has some subtle fixes, but most importantly it includes a custom/cut card that allows you to enter a range in feet, yards, or meters and if you need to an elevation (up or down) and it will compute the cut mark.

Enjoy.

--Scott


----------



## Canjapan2003

*Cool*

Missed Fathers day for me (a day ahead here in Japan). I'll have to go give it a try this weekend. Great way to motivate me to get out on the field!!


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark - Web*

The web version of Archer's Mark:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free

Has seen some additional development this weekend. Note this version now uses some pretty large fonts so it's more readable on mobile devices. If your going to use your normal computer these fonts might look a bit, x-large.

Please let me know what you think.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Scott,
Looking good - just a couple of things

Email address still (first time in) defaults to the literal text: Size="40" or Size =\"40\"

I still think you can remove some of the space between the distance and the mark. By doing that, both values well still be displayed on the screen even when using much larger fonts.

When using Custom Mark..., the keypad for Range & Elevation should default to the numeric pad, not alpha.

Would be nice to have a "home" button on all screens to return directly back to the primary input screen.

There's still something funky going on when trying to use the bullet selection in the Custom Mark/Cut area "when using FireFox on Windows". It seems to work fine when using IE, but FireFox is doing some weird stuff. May have to just show that to you next time we are together.

Prag


----------



## GILL

*Archers mark*

All of the technical stuff aside - I just used the program last night for the first time and I must say that I really liked it and found that it worked very well.


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark for Everyone That Doesn't Use Apple Tech*

Ok, so the original version of AM for the web was ok, but now I've got something that is more tuned for mobile users. So for all you Android, BBerry and other smartphone folks who don't have an Apple iPhone or iPod Touch you might want to try this out:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/test

It's web based and I'm looking for feedback. Please let me know your device and thoughts so I can incorporate your suggestions.

Enjoy.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Ok, so the original version of AM for the web was ok, but now I've got something that is more tuned for mobile users. So for all you Android, BBerry and other smartphone folks who don't have an Apple iPhone or iPod Touch you might want to try this out:
> 
> http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/test
> 
> It's web based and I'm looking for feedback. Please let me know your device and thoughts so I can incorporate your suggestions.
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> --Scott



Scott,
Decided on a whim to check out the website this morning before I even got on AT and saw this post. I like this format MUCH better than before, but (of course) I had to send you my "Pragmatic Punch List". :wink:


----------



## BowDadToo

*AM Mobile Web Version Punch List*

Lee,

Thank you for the input. I've ticked off one from your list of four, and I'm working the rest. Thank you.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Lee,
> 
> Thank you for the input. I've ticked off one from your list of four, and I'm working the rest. Thank you.
> 
> --Scott


Well Scott, before you tackle the others, get a little more coffee in ya. There were only 3 items, not 4. :shade:


----------



## montigre

Scott,
Not sure if this has already been worked on for the "BB" version of AM, but I've just started shooting Easton ACEs and with their barrel design, cannot input a known shaft diameter into the program. 

Oh, I have a BB Tour and an IPod Touch, but would prefer to carry just the phone with me on the field. TKS.
~Gail


----------



## pragmatic_lee

montigre said:


> Scott,
> Not sure if this has already been worked on for the "BB" version of AM, but I've just started shooting Easton ACEs and with their barrel design, cannot input a known shaft diameter into the program.
> 
> Oh, I have a BB Tour and an IPod Touch, but would prefer to carry just the phone with me on the field. TKS.
> ~Gail


Gail, with a barrel design shaft, use the diameter of the largest area of the shaft. This diameter value is used to compute "drag"; therefore, the drag will be the same no matter if the "fat" portion of the shaft is the full length or just a single point.

This web version of AM will be the alternative for anyone using any "smart" device other than the iPhone / iPod Touch. I 99.9% sure there are no plans to develop for all smart phone platforms as the development community is splintering for everything other than Apple. Should you be in an area where your BB does not have web access, I would think that the browser would have your last input/computed data cached, but you'd do well to email yourself your marks and either print them OR reference the email while on the range.

Prag

PS: I asked Hornet to check out this web version on his BB this morning. He replied that some things didn't appear to be aligning properly. Can you verify that?


----------



## BowDadToo

*Easton ACE*

Gail,

The arrow diameter is used to compute the drag of the arrow as it decelerates once it leaves the bow. The more accurate you can be with this measurement the better your resulting marks. 

Since all Easton ACE shafts are the same diameter, they only vary in spine, you just need to find out what that diameter is, or measure it. Finding out what it is should be easy, but I've had no real luck. 

Anyone out there know the diameter of an ACE?

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> Gail,
> 
> The arrow diameter is used to compute the drag of the arrow as it decelerates once it leaves the bow. The more accurate you can be with this measurement the better your resulting marks.
> 
> Since all Easton ACE shafts are the same diameter, they only vary in spine, you just need to find out what that diameter is, or measure it. Finding out what it is should be easy, but I've had no real luck.
> 
> *Anyone out there know the diameter of an ACE?*
> 
> --Scott


Doesn't everyone carry a caliper with them to the range, I do. :shade:


----------



## Spoon13

pragmatic_lee said:


> Doesn't everyone carry a caliper with them to the range, I do. :shade:


Yeah but you're "different".


----------



## montigre

Lee,

I just ran it on my BB Tour using the preset shaft diameter of 0.27 and the marks came out to be very close to those I ran on AA last evening. I did have to input a couple of the marks more than once--they would blank out, but once in, I got a real workable set. Nothing seemed out of alignment on my trial. :teeth:

BTW, I've also had no luck finding out the true shaft diameter online---and NO, I do not carry calipers around in my goody box.....

~Gail


----------



## pragmatic_lee

montigre said:


> Lee,
> 
> I just ran it on my BB Tour using the preset shaft diameter of 0.27 and the marks came out to be very close to those I ran on AA last evening. I did have to input a couple of the marks more than once--they would blank out, but once in, I got a real workable set. Nothing seemed out of alignment on my trial. :teeth:
> 
> BTW, I've also had no luck finding out the true shaft diameter online---and NO, I do not carry calipers around in my goody box.....
> 
> ~Gail


Well bring your shafts down to NC and I'll be glad to measure them for you. :shade:

Thanks for the feed back.


----------



## montigre

Scott, 

When will this version be ready for a field trial? It looks really promising.

~Gail


----------



## BowDadToo

*Field Trial*

Gail,

This version uses the same marks engine as our wildly successful iPhone product. In fact the marks engine has two very minor enhancements over the iPhone version that allow it to produce slightly more accurate marks, but that will be resolved in the next iPhone release. 

The most significant difference between this version and the iPhone one is the user interface. The iPhone UI is just sexy, while this is utilitarian. Also this version lacks all the more advanced features:


Multiple shot-in marks
Cut mark support
Angled cut marks (iPhone also uses a clinometer to measure the angle)
Help

I'll be adding in a custom mark generation page to support odd ranges and elevated shots hopefully today. An early prototype of this functionality exists in the prior mobile version.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it's ready. You can email yourself the marks so you can view them from your inbox if you loose your 3G connection, then print them out when you get home.

Feel free to align them to AA, TAP, On-Target or whatever you use back in the office. If you see any significant differences (say five clicks on a Sureloc) please let me know. I'm always looking to improve the underlying marks engine.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Improved Android/Blackberry/Web version*

All,

I've been tuning and tweaking things and I think this one is good enough to get the ball really rolling:

http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web

It uses a trick or two that should make it look good on most smart phones. I've tested it on the BBerry Curve and it looks good. I'll checkout the other phones later today and tomorrow when I visit my testing center, the local Verizon store. 

If you go all the way through and email your marks card there is a comment field, please send me your thoughts on how it looks, if possible please try and be specific. Also you can just post comments here for public ridicule.

This week I'm working on Paypal integration so those that provide valuable feedback by Friday will receive free IDs once it goes live as a subscription service.

Thank you all for your support.

--Scott


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> All,
> 
> I've been tuning and tweaking things and I think this one is good enough to get the ball really rolling:
> 
> http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web
> 
> It uses a trick or two that should make it look good on most smart phones. I've tested it on the BBerry Curve and it looks good. I'll checkout the other phones later today and tomorrow when I visit my testing center, the local Verizon store.
> 
> If you go all the way through and email your marks card there is a comment field, please send me your thoughts on how it looks, if possible please try and be specific. Also you can just post comments here for public ridicule.
> 
> This week I'm working on Paypal integration so those that provide valuable feedback by Friday will receive free IDs once it goes live as a subscription service.
> 
> Thank you all for your support.
> 
> --Scott


Not sure if you'd consider it "valuable" or not, but I just submitted you some feedback. :wink:

Looking good Scott!!!


----------



## jkohler22

Feedback sent, looking good.
I cannot wait for the iPhone app update.

jkohler22


----------



## Guest

I input the marks and hit the submit button and it just returns me to the start page, is there something special that needs to be done


----------



## Moparmatty

Sean McKenty said:


> I input the marks and hit the submit button and it just returns me to the start page, is there something special that needs to be done


Worked fine for me the other day.


----------



## BowDadToo

Archer's Score is in the final phase of debugging, and it will be available in a week or two as both an InApp purchase from within Archer's Mark and as a stand-a-lone app. It is the fastest, easiest, and most eye catching scoring application for the iPhone. For existing AM users there will be a simple Score button in the top left that will take you to Archer's score. To score a Field end, from Archer's Mark, it takes four taps and one flick per arrow to score and be returned to Archer's Mark. The first tap takes you into Archer's Score. The second to select the end to score, one flick per arrow, one tap to accept your score, one tap to return to Archer's Mark. It's that easy, 5-10 seconds, faster than writing down your score, and this one does all that hard math and totals your ends, X's and final score.

Here is a collage of current screen shots, enjoy!


----------



## BowDadToo

Archer's Score, oops forgot to mention the price... For existing AM users the InApp purchased version which is integrated into AM will be $7.99. For those that don't have AM the stand-a-lone version is $9.99.

Note Archer's Score has pre-built Score Cards for: Field (28 target set), Vegas 300, LAS, Animal, 3D-IBO, 3D-ASA and Custom. If you create a custom you define the number of arrows (1-6) per end, if X adds 1, Max Points/arrow, Min Points/arrow, and the number of ends. 

Any questions?


----------



## skullerud

Would you consider to make a 12/24 target field pre built score card, and a FITA 3D score card as well?
Oh, and a FITA target scorecard would also be very nice. Both for single distances (50m, 70m), but also the Fita 1440 (30, 50, 70, and 90m, 36arrows pr distance).
I would also like to see a "practice" mode, where I can input all the arrows I shoot during practice, and see the hit pattern/average score afterwords.

And PLEASE let us input distances in Metric. Us europeans are not very good at yards, and all our target distances are in Meters.

Love the AM, cant wait for the AS


----------



## skullerud

NockOn said:


> I can't speak for folks in Europe.
> 
> Here in Canada, we use Meters only for target distances.
> 
> Arrow length, diameter, Sight diameter and peep to arrow are in Inches. Bow weight is in Lbs. Arrow weight in grains. That's because the tuning charts and arrow selection charts use those measurements.
> 
> Target distance though is all in Meters for FITA Field and 1440 FITA etc...
> 
> Thanks for listening...


Same goes for scandinavia.


----------



## IGluIt4U

BowDadToo said:


> Archer's Score is in the final phase of debugging, and it will be available in a week or two as both an InApp purchase from within Archer's Mark and as a stand-a-lone app. It is the fastest, easiest, and most eye catching scoring application for the iPhone. For existing AM users there will be a simple Score button in the top left that will take you to Archer's score. To score a Field end, from Archer's Mark, it takes four taps and one flick per arrow to score and be returned to Archer's Mark. The first tap takes you into Archer's Score. The second to select the end to score, one flick per arrow, one tap to accept your score, one tap to return to Archer's Mark. It's that easy, 5-10 seconds, faster than writing down your score, and this one does all that hard math and totals your ends, X's and final score.
> 
> Here is a collage of current screen shots, enjoy!


 SWEEEEEEET!!!! :cheers: :tongue: :whoo:


----------



## bogenfreak

Hello

I also have AM, and are very amazed how this App works. The only thing I really don´t recognize is how this works with the Clinometer ? How do I have to hold and point my itouch against the target. I re and reread the Instructions, but I don´t know how they mean this. When I hold my itouch in front of me, then there is on the right side a Arrow pointing up where I read "Sight Down - Edge of iphone", but what do I have to do with this ? Do I have to lean it somewhere ? Please help !

Thanks until now.


----------



## NockOn

skullerud said:


> Would you consider to make a 12/24 target field pre built score card, and a FITA 3D score card as well?
> Oh, and a FITA target scorecard would also be very nice. Both for single distances (50m, 70m), but also the Fita 1440 (30, 50, 70, and 90m, 36arrows pr distance).
> I would also like to see a "practice" mode, where I can input all the arrows I shoot during practice, and see the hit pattern/average score afterwords.
> 
> And PLEASE let us input distances in Metric. Us europeans are not very good at yards, and all our target distances are in Meters.
> 
> Love the AM, cant wait for the AS


I brought it up before here: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1073260&p=1057897171#post1057897171

They said they would look into it but I don't think anything got done yet. For Scoring Fita Field, I use a seperate app called Target Mate. But I wish I could get the functionallity of scoring like TM within AM.

Cheers,


----------



## TILK

Hi

Is it possible to set up the bow speed in AM? 
After setting up the bow in AM the speed shown is diferent (lower) than the speed I read out from radarchron.

Thanks
Regards from Granada - Spain
Jose


----------



## BowDadToo

NockOn, one of the developers who designed our user interface has been too attached in the past to even entertain a change to the setup page. I'll make another run on him again. Ver. 1.4 will be out any day now, but like all projects we expect 1.41 will follow shortly after that so I'll try and slide that feature in at that point.


----------



## BowDadToo

TILK,

The bow speed issue has been an interesting one since we released AM. 

We've taken a more mathematical approach to creating marks then a field one. In simple terms if you were to shoot then plot your actual marks from 6 yards out to 100 yards the resulting curve would look something like the Nike swoosh. The lowest point in the swoosh is often around 12-15 yards. We like to use two data points typically at 20 and 50 yards to plot the curve. You could think of your bow speed as the slope of that curve if it were a line, which it's not really.

If we stopped here we'd have an interesting program, but we then go the next logical step. You can add up to three additional data points, the only condition is that they all be greater than your near mark. We then recommend that you pick a point midway between your near and far mark and put that in as a "shot-in" mark and then practice your longest shot and use that as a "shot-in". This should produce a very good overall curve.

Now where's our problem, it's the near marks, those short ones to the left of the bottom of the swoosh, under 15 yards. Here your bow measurements for peep to pin, and peep to center of the arrow are critical. We use several trig functions to compute these marks and when compared to AA and TAP we're often between the two, but not always. 

So what's next. Earlier this summer I revisited the near marks with http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/free, but I've since flipped it back to the AM algorithm though there is a marginal one or two click rounding difference due to the platform. Clearly I need to capture a wider sample of user data then take a closer look at the formulas used.


----------



## BowDadToo

Archer's Score Update

We're in final days of testing on Archer's Score integration, and hope to release it this week to Apple. Initially it will be available as an in-app-purchase from within Archer's Mark for $7.99. They'll be a simple warning bubble that will pop up after the update letting you know about the new feature and pointing out the Score icon in the top left of the marks page. Here is what that now looks like. 










If purchased from within Archer's Mark, Archer's Score is tightly integrated and it's one tap to switch between the two apps. If you're in Archer's Mark and need to score a four arrow end it's a total of four taps, and four flicks. One tap to switch from AM to AS, one tap to select the end to score, one flick per arrow, one tap to accept your score, and finally one tap to return to AM. We've tuned it to be a quick as possible to score an end!

Here is the main score card page:










This is how you score an end:










If you want to setup a custom score card here is a shot of that:










Otherwise you can use one of the stock score cards:










You can also save and email your score cards. If you like I can post shots of those screens as well.

Thank you all, Scott.


----------



## skullerud

How 'bout the FITA field score card? Can't see it in the pull down menu. (scores 6-5-4-3-2-1, 3 arrows pr target, 12/24/48 targets).
And will you add the FITA target score card and distances later?

Is it possible to save the custom target score cards as a template for later use?

I think this is more than very important for Your european customers, if You would like to sell more than a few of AS outside the US.
I for one, will stick with Target Mate until this is integrated, but buy when it's sorted.


----------



## BowDadToo

Skullerud,

Creating and saving templates for custom score cards is actually pretty trivial, here is the saved score card page and you can see that I created three different FITA Field cards:










Here is the actual setup page for the 12 end score card. Not being a FITA Field shooter I assumed that X added 1 and the scores would then be 6-1. 










This is the actual scoring page for a single FITA Field end, and you can see how it totals:










I'm going to see if we can pre-load some additional score cards as saved cards that could come with AS. Is this what you were looking for? 

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

Archer's Mark enthusiasts, version 1.4 has been laid at the alter of the gods at Apple for review. Hopefully by the end of the week you'll see a little bubble on the App Store notifying you that there is an update for Archer's Mark. After you load the new update and you open AM you should get a nice thank you bubble for updating and a note that Archer's Score is now available. Enjoy!


----------



## BowDadToo

For those of you that also use Facebook, there is an AM group on Facebook that has 21 screen shots of Archer's Score so you can get a really good feel about how it works. Here is a link to the facebook group:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Archers-Mark/282400016764


----------



## Heliman21

Any word as to when Apple will be releasing the update?


----------



## BowDadToo

So we submitted it on the 4th. Yesterday on the 11th Apple rejected it because I flagged the in-app purchase as a consumable versus non-consumable, they pointed out my mistake, god forbid they fix this trivial setting. 

I quickly redefined everything, recreated the in-app purchase product, re-built all the code and resubmitted it, all within an hour of the rejection. Hopefully in the next day or two it will get approved. Worst case next Monday or Tuesday, baring any other issues.


----------



## Heliman21

Thanks BowDad for the update. I appreciate all your efforts and doings.


----------



## skullerud

BowDadToo said:


> Skullerud,
> 
> Creating and saving templates for custom score cards is actually pretty trivial, here is the saved score card page and you can see that I created three different FITA Field cards:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the actual setup page for the 12 end score card. Not being a FITA Field shooter I assumed that X added 1 and the scores would then be 6-1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the actual scoring page for a single FITA Field end, and you can see how it totals:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to see if we can pre-load some additional score cards as saved cards that could come with AS. Is this what you were looking for?
> 
> --Scott


YES! If you can add FITA 18m and FITA 70m, I'll be happy for now

If you have the time later, the FITA round (36arrows at 30, 50, 70 and 90m) would be appreciated. No hurry on that one, the snow is falling in norway today, and the outdoor season is over for 2010:-(

Your right on the fita field scoring from 6 (X), 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Fita 18m is different for recurve and compound, as recurve shooters have both x and 10 (same score), but compound shooters have only the x-ring as 10 (i.e. no x).

If I can help You guys in any way, like on the fita score cards, drop me a PM or email. I'll be happy to help


----------



## BowDadToo

Archer's Mark 1.4, enhanced with Archer's Score, is now available on iTunes! The upgrade to 1.4 from prior versions is free, but as previously mentioned the Archer's Score component is $7.99. Enjoy, and thank you all.


----------



## Moparmatty

Scott. Does Archer's score save each score card you fill out so you can track your progress, say, over the entire indoor season?


----------



## BowDadToo

Yes, there is a very easy save feature. Also I would encourage you to create custom cards for games we might not have and save those as blank cards and use them as templates for future games. We've put a considerable amount of effort into making another quality product for Archers. Hopefully you'll enjoy AS as much as you have AM.

--Scott


----------



## Moparmatty

BowDadToo said:


> Yes, there is a very easy save feature. Also I would encourage you to create custom cards for games we might not have and save those as blank cards and use them as templates for future games. We've put a considerable amount of effort into making another quality product for Archers. Hopefully you'll enjoy AS as much as you have AM.
> 
> --Scott


Thanks Scott. I'll definitely be getting Archer's Score. 

:thumb: :thumb:


----------



## BowDadToo

Thanks buddy, please let me know how the in-app purchase goes. It worked in production for me earlier tonight, but that was the US story, you'll be pulling from the CA store. Should be the same.


----------



## jkohler22

Scott,
Just downloaded the new version and I really like the way the Archer's Score works. I've create a couple custom cards and see that this feature will be very useful. One question, is the engine in the app the same as the website for Archers Mark? I know you've talked about the changing them just wondering what version 1.4 has.

great job as always.
thanks
jkohler22


----------



## skullerud

BowDadToo said:


> Archer's Mark 1.4, enhanced with Archer's Score, is now available on iTunes! The upgrade to 1.4 from prior versions is free, but as previously mentioned the Archer's Score component is $7.99. Enjoy, and thank you all.


Not sure why, but I got the 1.34 version on my ipod touch, but the new 1.4 does not come up as a update, but at full price....

EDIT: Checked with a couple of buddies of mine, and it looks like You have an issue with (at least) the norwegian appstore (not sure if its a separate one or if its just a part of the european). No update available, only version 1,4 at full pice, and no AS available....


----------



## TILK

BowDadToo said:


> Archer's Mark 1.4, enhanced with Archer's Score, is now available on iTunes! The upgrade to 1.4 from prior versions is free, but as previously mentioned the Archer's Score component is $7.99. Enjoy, and thank you all.


Hi,
I´ve just updated to 1.4 version from iTunes. Founded the new app AS icon and used it. Appears the purchase page and after pushing the Buy Now button, appear a test box explaining the purchase is processed but nothing else happens. 

Do i have to do anything else? any kind of download? How can i be sure the purchase is done?

I tried getting it from iTunes and says "this app is not available in apple store"

Thanks
Jose


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Folks,
I talked with Scott on the phone several times yesterday evening. He is en-route to NYC this morning so it may take a while for him to respond. 

For those of you having problems installing version 1.4 of AM, could you please verify what generation your device (iPod Touch/iPhone) is? Not sure about the iPhones, but a Gen 1 iPod Touch (like mine) does NOT have an external speaker.

For now it appears that the 1.4 version of Archer's Mark which allows for the in-app Archer's Score will require the 4.1 version of the iPhone operating system. 4.1, of course, will not work on the 1st generation iPod Touches & iPhones. 

I am 99.99999% sure that this was not intentional on Scott's part. We've been in conversation about this for several months and he kept saying that the 1.4 "commercial" version of AM would still work on the pre 4.1 operating system.

I'm sure Scott will be on here soon with some words of advice.


----------



## skullerud

I got the Ipod touch 3.gen with the latest iOS on it.
I havent tried to install the 1.4 yet, as I don't want to pay the full price once more....


----------



## TILK

I have iPhone 3Gs firmware 4.1


----------



## pragmatic_lee

skullerud said:


> I got the Ipod touch 3.gen with the latest iOS on it.
> I havent tried to install the 1.4 yet, as I don't want to pay the full price once more....


You won't have to pay the full price again. If you click the purchase icon, it will inform you that you have already purchased this app and there is a "free" update available - you then have the option to continue.

I ran into the same thing last evening. The iTunes store is actually very good about not allowing you to purchase something more than once.


----------



## BowDadToo

From an NYC Cab, it appears 1.4 will only work on iOS 4.x devices. Obviously this was not our intention. We think we might know the source of the problem and are looking into it now. If you have iOS 4.x you should be ok to update. If you already own AM it will NOT charge you again. For testing I always wipe AM off my device when a new version is released and re-buy it from the store like everyone else. It detects I already have a license and doesn't charge me. So don't worry about that piece.

We are looking into older iOS and device support and will post an update to Apple when I return to my development system early Friday morning. There will be a solution, don't worry. It may take Apple up to a week to post the fix (likely 1.41).


----------



## skullerud

pragmatic_lee said:


> You won't have to pay the full price again. If you click the purchase icon, it will inform you that you have already purchased this app and there is a "free" update available - you then have the option to continue.
> 
> I ran into the same thing last evening. The iTunes store is actually very good about not allowing you to purchase something more than once.



Sorry. doesn't look like it on my ipod. 
First of all, the 1.4 doesnt appear in the "update" section of appstore.
second, when I search for it, it comes up with "109kr" (price in norwegian money), and if i push that is says "buy now".

Sorry to say, I don't trust Apple more than I trust a wounded grizzly with my the kids, so untill it appears in the "update" section, I'm not touching the AM V1.4, and subsequently I'm not buying the AS either.


----------



## BowDadToo

Also we're very sorry for this iOS version conflict. Because of how the development environment works we were prohibited from testing with older devices. Again, we are sorry.


----------



## BowDadToo

Please wait for 1.41 and this should be resolved. Sorry.


----------



## pragmatic_lee

BowDadToo said:


> From an NYC Cab, it appears 1.4 will only work on iOS 4.x devices. Obviously this was not our intention. We think we might know the source of the problem and are looking into it now. If you have iOS 4.x you should be ok to update. If you already own AM it will NOT charge you again. For testing I always wipe AM off my device when a new version is released and re-buy it from the store like everyone else. It detects I already have a license and doesn't charge me. So don't worry about that piece.
> 
> We are looking into older iOS and device support and will post an update to Apple when I return to my development system early Friday morning. There will be a solution, don't worry. It may take Apple up to a week to post the fix (likely 1.41).


Thanks Scott for the update. (I knew you'd come through)

Please, no one else do what I did last evening in my quest to FORCE version 1.4 to my Gen 1 device. I deleted AM from my device in hopes that the sync would then install the new version - it did not and did not tell me why. I connected directly from my device to the iTunes store this morning and attempted to re-down load AM- it was then I got the message that I needed 4.1 firmware.

Now I got NO Archer's Mark on my device - I'm already starting to experience withdrawal symptoms.


----------



## Spoon13

pragmatic_lee said:


> Thanks Scott for the update. (I knew you'd come through)
> 
> Please, no one else do what I did last evening in my quest to FORCE version 1.4 to my Gen 1 device. I deleted AM from my device in hopes that the sync would then install the new version - it did not and did not tell me why. I connected directly from my device to the iTunes store this morning and attempted to re-down load AM- it was then I got the message that I needed 4.1 firmware.
> 
> Now I got NO Archer's Mark on my device - I'm already starting to experience withdrawal symptoms.


I did the iOS upgrade two weeks ago. I have AM but no saved files. So now I got to go through and get marks again. Oh well. I don't need a mark for indoors.


----------



## Spoon13

BowDadToo said:


> Also we're very sorry for this iOS version conflict. Because of how the development environment works we were prohibited from testing with older devices. Again, we are sorry.


Yeah right!!!! You are in cahoots with Apple trying to force people to upgrade to the new OS. ADMIT IT!!!!!!!


Just pulling your string. Thanks for all the hard work Scott.:thumb:


----------



## pragmatic_lee

Spoon13 said:


> I did the iOS upgrade two weeks ago. I have AM but no saved files. So now I got to go through and get marks again. Oh well. I don't need a mark for indoors.


Wish I could afford something a little newer than a Gen 1 device, but like it's been said before: "A shoemaker's children have no shoes"


----------



## VA Vince

I have the 3GS with the 4.0 OS, it still says no updates available. Just an FYI for Scott. No worries man, I will wait untill its resolved and get the score app too! Thanks again for the great product.


----------



## BowDadToo

Ok so instead of iOS 4.x it really is 4.1. The upgrade from iOS 4.0 to 4.1 is free, you just need to be connected via iTunes.


----------



## IGluIt4U

Downloaded the AM update and added AS last night... nice job Scott... :thumb: :cheers: :hail:


----------



## VA Vince

BowDadToo said:


> Ok so instead of iOS 4.x it really is 4.1. The upgrade from iOS 4.0 to 4.1 is free, you just need to be connected via iTunes.


Scott, I wish I never upgraded. The 4.0 OS stinks, its made for the Iphone4. Either way I will download 4.1 so I can get the update to AM.


----------



## skullerud

I did a total reboot of the ipod, istalled the ios 4.1 again, and the upgrade went OK. 
Then I bought the Archers score app, and I really hope there's a BIG upgrade coming REAL soon, cuz AS in it's current state is the biggest waste of app-money I've seen so far.
First of all, the custom score cards does not work for FITA indoors as promised. 
Secondly, I like the idea of being able to email score cards, but whats the point, when its only the score for each round that's included and the total score? This is useless! For every possible statistic use, it has to include every single arrow score.
Thirdly, for the fita indoor 18m compound shooters don't have X's, but there is no box to tick to leave the X's out.

I've offered to help with the layout on the FITA scorecards (and you have to have both recurve and compound cards for indoors), and I hope You will accept the offer.

I hope You will fix this, and priority #1 should be to include the arrow scores in the email-pdf, cuz right now, I feel ripped off....


----------



## zozoka

Back in April you promised full metric support in the next update.
Well it not happen .
Still must to setup in inches, and in field i have only 5 metric distances like in previous version.

Z.


----------



## VA Vince

Downloaded via OS4.1, Now gonna get the score app.


----------



## VA Vince

Scott, I can not find Archer's score in the app store? Has it been removed?


----------



## VA Vince

VA Vince said:


> Scott, I can not find Archer's score in the app store? Has it been removed?


Nevermind, I got it.


----------



## Moparmatty

So should I upgrade my OS or not on my iTouch?


----------



## VA Vince

Moparmatty said:


> So should I upgrade my OS or not on my iTouch?


The 4.0 was crap on the iphone. But I like the 4.1 so far. Way better than 4.0. Supposedly there were alot of bugs with the 4.0OS. So yea, get the 4.1os


----------



## Moparmatty

Thanks Vince. 

Can I update it via the device or does it has to be hooked to my PC?


----------



## IGluIt4U

I think you have to do it through iTunes on the pc... 4.0 was fine on my pod, now running 4.1, no issues.. :wink:


----------



## NockOn

The Score App looks good but again the developers seem to forget anyone past the USA's borders....

You can't make an indoor FITA I score card in the custom mode...Indoor FITA for Compound, the X is worth 10 and the rest of the yellow is 9. But Recurve shoot like Vegas style. There needs to be a score card that will allow to score Xs and 10s but be substract 10s in the end ot make up the FITA score for compound. I hope this makes sense?

AM is still missing Metric Support. Why can't there be an option to decide if I want my marks in yards or meters? The other input like bow weight and sight measurement should also have the option of using lbs or Kgs and Cm or Inches. That way you could do your 2 marks in Meters and still use a weight scale in lbs if that's what you have. We just need a little more flexibility to enter Metric vs Imperial measurements.

I love this product but common on people, its a big world out there!!!


----------



## BowDadToo

VA Vince,

I'm going to assume you have an iPhone 3G, yes iOS 4.0 slows things down a bit and frankly is a bit buggier. On the other hand iOS 4.1 was designed to address the 3G phone specifically and it's suppose to be better now. I have both a 3G for testing and a 4 for actual use. I just loaded 4.1 on the 3G and will be checking it out this morning. Also over the weekend I borrowed a friends kid's iPod Touch Gen 1 with iOS 3.1.2, the oldest supported iOS release. We're doing testing on both devices today along with the iPhone4, and an iPod Touch Gen3 to make sure most of the popular devices work as expected.


----------



## BowDadToo

Skullerud,

We're reviewing your comments today among the team to see what can be addressed ASAP. 

Our biggest concern at the moment is pushing out an update of AM that works on iOS 3.1.2 and greater. Some defaults changed in the XCode build environment from one version to another that resulted in AM 1.4 only appearing as an update for iOS 4.1 devices. We've since resolved this in an internal version of AM 1.41, but there appears to be a bug in the in-app-purchase OS code at 3.1.2 that we need to code around. That coding appears to now be completed, but is pending testing. While that's being tested we'll looking into your FITA scorecard request, and the change to email/print to include every arrow. I'll keep you posted here.


----------



## BowDadToo

Zozoka,

On metric support if you go into setup and turn metric on, then the ALL game tab will show all the ranges in meters from 5-100 in 1M increments. 

True, our designer has resisted supporting changing the two reference marks to meters when setup is set to Metric. I'll try and get that change request pushed through. 

Finally, we've discussed, but never committed to using another user interface so we could provide marks for a greater range of games, especially FITA. I'll check on that as well today.

--Scott


----------



## VA Vince

BowDadToo said:


> VA Vince,
> 
> I'm going to assume you have an iPhone 3G, yes iOS 4.0 slows things down a bit and frankly is a bit buggier. On the other hand iOS 4.1 was designed to address the 3G phone specifically and it's suppose to be better now. I have both a 3G for testing and a 4 for actual use. I just loaded 4.1 on the 3G and will be checking it out this morning. Also over the weekend I borrowed a friends kid's iPod Touch Gen 1 with iOS 3.1.2, the oldest supported iOS release. We're doing testing on both devices today along with the iPhone4, and an iPod Touch Gen3 to make sure most of the popular devices work as expected.


Scott, All is good. I upgraded to 4.1 and then updated AM and bought AScore. We are good to go.


----------



## alanmcdonley

BowDadToo said:


> Will we release a version for OSX, perhaps, since you asked I've now added it to the list.
> 
> --Scott


 Add another asking for it - iMac OSX version please. Or help making your new Windows version run in Wine?


----------



## alanmcdonley

*Found web version - wow! Exact marks from 15yds to 90m*

Just found your web version - wow - I put in my setup, entered 20y and 80y marks - AM computes exactly my marks from 15y to 90 meters. *Exact*. 

35ft to 25ft are off by 1/2% (1 click) and 20 ft is off by 1.7% (5 clicks) - but I won't miss a point with these marks, so I'm impressed.

Thank you for releasing the web version - where do I send money?


----------



## BowDadToo

Alanmcdonley,

We don't offer a native Mac version, but you can run the web version on your Mac: http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web


----------



## BowDadToo

1.41 Update

So the last version of AM, prior to 1.4 available last Tuesday night, came out in April. We didn't want to disrupt the summer shooting season with an update. Since then Apple has changed the development environment in a number of ways, one subtle one was a check box in the build process labeled "Build Active Architecture Only" and it's checked by default. Since all of the developers are bleeding edge guys, there are three of us, and we're all running iOS 4.1 we never noticed the impact of this setting. Well when 1.4 was available last Wednesday it was brought to our attention and we scrambled. If this were the only change in Apple's development environment we would have published an update last Friday. It wasn't.

Over the weekend I secured the loan of an original iPod Gen1 running iOS 3.1.2 (really old) to confirm that our install base would continue working. Well 1.41 failed immediately following the in-app-purchase of Archer's Score (AS) on entry into AS. Turns out the base font we used in the development of AS was not available by default in 3.1.2. We found and fixed that problem on Monday. Tuesday we learned that the PDF generation process had also seen a change, so printing on older platforms was also broken. So had we published at that point anyone with an older device would not be able to email marks cards or score cards. We've since debugged and fixed that problem. At this point we think we've fixed and tested everything. 

We've got one final discussion today and if everyone agrees then we'll release AM 1.41 as an update for all platforms.

Thank you all for your support.
--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

1.41 Update 2

Apple has officially accepted the update and it's now under review, hopefully it will be released very soon.


----------



## capemaybowman

Glad to see you are trying to keep things under control and up dating things unlike that other portable program.


----------



## BowDadToo

Thank you, we really are trying to build the best suite of Archery products for the iPhone. 

With AM 1.41 in the can, we'll delivery Archer's Score (AS) 1.0 to Apple tomorrow as a stand-alone application for those that don't need Marks.

Following that we have the winter software development season underway starting this weekend. I'll be pinging several of you over the next two weeks via PM and phone to help us prioritize, and understand new feature requests for the next release. Here is what's currently on the list for consideration:

Archer's Mark:
- Enable both near and far setup marks to respect Metric setup option and use Meters for these ranges when metric is enabled.
- Finish sight tape integration.
- Improve inside parallax (12Y and under) marks formula. I've made several stabs at this, but we're still not delighted.
- Consider adding FITA game support for the following distances in meters: 18, 25, 30, 50, 60, 70, 90. Perhaps support FITA Field 5-60 meters in 5 meter increments.
- Make the cut yardages editable (we compute what they should be, but some think they should be editable).
- Longer range ballistics table. The iPhone version is good out to 110Y while the web version is 125Y, some have asked that we take this out to 130Y.
- Single range mark computation in yards, feet or meters so you can enter a custom range, say 123.5Y, and get a specific mark.
- Support a setup option that uses a single sight mark/range combination along with an initial arrow velocity.

Archer's Score:
- FITA I score card as a default offering.
- Email/print score cards with individual arrow scores shown. You can save the cards this way, they just won't print this way, perhaps consider making it a setup option.
- What other unique cards should we offer? 

What other suggestions do you folks have?

--Scott


----------



## ansci

Are you planning an app for Blackberry phones?


----------



## BowDadToo

Blackberry & Android, sorry no, not at this time. For these products we recommend using http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web it's free and uses the same core marks engine. Also I've tuned it to run on most mobile smart phones that respect the Mobile XML 1.0 spec. It should meet some of your needs.

I've covered the logic on other pages of this discussion as to why we don't support Blackberry and Android, essentially poor digital rights management so our code is more exposed to pirates and crackers. It's questionable that we'd ever likely make enough to recoup the effort involved before someone offered it for free. 

--Scott


----------



## capemaybowman

I could use a quicker way to change between set-ups or a way to keep two up. My wife has been known to miss place printed marks on range and now with AM I always get my marks morning of shoot.


----------



## BowDadToo

All,

For those that follow AT pretty regularly, especially this forum, you likely know Pragmatic Lee (Prag). Lee went in the hospital today for planned surgery to have a stint put in to improve blood flow to his heart. Tonight please consider adding Prag to your prayers for a safe and rapid recovery.


----------



## VA Vince

Scott, Thanks for all the work and improvments you guys are doing. I love the score app to keep track of my rounds on my iphone. How about a graph/chart in the score app to show progress in games scored? If thats to much, no worries.


----------



## BowDadToo

Pragmatic Lee Update,

Lee's stint went in Thursday as planned and he had five-way bypass surgery on Monday evening. Yesterday he was doing fine, but last night was a rough one, today his pressure is low and he's taken on two units of blood. His family has asked that all those in AT who know Lee to consider keeping him in their hearts and prayers for the next day or two because he needs all of our combined strength. Thank you all...


----------



## JawsDad

BowDadToo said:


> Pragmatic Lee Update,
> 
> Lee's stint went in Thursday as planned and he had five-way bypass surgery on Monday evening. Yesterday he was doing fine, but last night was a rough one, today his pressure is low and he's taken on two units of blood. His family has asked that all those in AT who know Lee to consider keeping him in their hearts and prayers for the next day or two because he needs all of our combined strength. Thank you all...


Thanks for the update.. Sounds like a tough road but Lee can do it. Sounds like he had a lot of factors in his favor going in. Will be continuing to pray for 5-Spot. :thumb:


----------



## Prag Jr

Thanks to everyone (especially the LOFT team)! The visits, call and posts have been wonderful. Daddy is having a rough day, like BowDadToo said. Prag can't get on AT from the hospital, nor am I allowing it right now.  AT is considered a firearm website so it is blocked at Wake Med. I am planning on going back this evening after work to visit with him a bit. If you have well wishes you want to send privately, email them to me at [email protected] and I will print them for him. 

Thank you again for all of your prayer.


----------



## BowDadToo

Prag was looking great when I visited him in the hospital on Thursday. Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers.


----------



## BowDadToo

Archer's Mark 1.41 and Archer's Score 1.0 are both now available in iTunes.

Both version should work on all Apple iOS devices. If you have AM and are interested in Archer's Score please upgrade to AM 1.41 first, it's free if you own a prior version, then you'll notice the in-app purchase for Archer's Score. The in-App purchase is $7.99US versus the stand-a-lone version of Archer's Score which is $9.99US.

If you have any questions or comments please post them here. If you like AS then please feel free to give us a positive review. Thank you all for your support.


----------



## TILK

Hi everybody

I got a problem with SC. The scores mailed in .pdf format when pushing the print button show a score card with the number of end and the total , but not show the value of each arrow.

Maybe I´m wrong setting up the card. Do anyone have the same issue?

Thanks,


----------



## BowDadToo

TILK,

Sorry this was the initially printing design, we've had a storm of requests for displaying each arrow in the printed score card. This will be in the next free update, which should be out between Thanksgiving and Christmas.


----------



## TILK

Ok thanks


----------



## NockOn

Any update on the updates for AM and AS?

Would love to see the Meter/FITA stuff implemented on AM before the next outdoor season. Same for AS, would like to see some indoor FITA score card where the 10s are substracted from the total to give the FITA score for Compound Class.

Cheers,


----------



## NockOn

Ttt


----------



## BowDadToo

NockOn,

I've heard ya. The metric support has been improved, now I'm pushing on FITA. We're trying to get a release out this month, we've all been pretty busy.


----------



## NockOn

Glad to hear they are on the way, thanks


----------



## rsw

Does this, or will it in the future, work on the Android?


----------



## BowDadToo

Sorry, at this time we're not working on an Android specific version, for many reasons. You can use http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web for free and this will provide the key feature AM offers, marks.


----------



## BowDadToo

Archer's Mark 1.5 is now available on iTunes. Metric support within setup is now fully supported. Fixed 30-click (CBE) sight issues along with some 8-click SpotHogg issues. Thank you all for your suggestions and support.


----------



## Bobbyson1a

I'll be getting my I Phone wednsday and as soon i get out of the store I'll download it.


----------



## mantra

I discovered a slight problem today. As I wanted to create a setup for my recurve, it says "Invalid Shot-In Far Mark. Your Far Mark can´t be more than 68.580002 greater than your near mark." As near mark I used my 18m mark and as far mark I wanted to use the 70m mark but it seems that this is not possible although the use of these two distances and the associated marks would make the most sense, cause 18m and 70m are probably the most consistand and approved marks for target shooters?!

Why is this limitation of 68.580002 between near- and far-mark?

Btw. the sight is a Copper John ANTS Fita.


----------



## Bobbyson1a

With on target 2 I have a mark say 12+14 and with AM is says 12.71? The 12 is for the sight scale and the 14 is from the top knob of the sight.


----------



## capemaybowman

Bobby what sight do you have?


----------



## Bobbyson1a

Bill I have a DS Advantage.


----------



## BowDadToo

Mantra,

When AM was designed we were US Field Archery focused and so we use 20 yards (near) and 50 yards (far). In AM version 1.5 we enabled setup to support metric values for the near and far mark, but likely never revisited the bounding limits. I'll ask the team to make 80M the upper end.


----------



## BowDadToo

Bobby, the DS Advantage appears to be the same as s Sure-Loc according to this page: http://www.grantubl.com/ds_advantage.htm

So that's 20click 24turn.

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Archer's Mark wants FIVE STAR reviews, and as such we're giving away five copies FREE*

We've got 3.5 stars on iTunes because 12 kids must have thought we were a game or something. To remedy that I'm giving away five copies and we're looking for some honest reviews. If you don't have AM and have been waiting, just need a copy for a friend, or you finally got a new Verizon iPhones I've got a special treat for you, but you need to move fast. Archer's Mark version 1.5, now with metric setup support.

Below are five single use promotional codes. Use them or lose them. First come first serve. They are good for the current version of Archer's Mark 1.5 published right after the Verizon iPhone was introduced.

LE73944L6ELR
T6KMLX3RTLM9
N3H3X34JTRT9
MY6KL9FFKJTR
6YLEKNT33WXP

To use a code, you'll need to bring up iTunes on your computer, enter the App Store, scroll to the bottom and under Manage click Redeem. Then enter the code and it will automatically bring up Archer's Mark and credit a free version to your iTunes account.

Remember as soon as they're used they're gone forever! Enjoy!

--Scott


----------



## BowDadToo

*Re-introducing Archer's Score, and on a quest for reviews and stars.*

So you like Archer's Mark, but you've not gotten Archer's Score yet. Don't fear I'm still in a great mood. So here are 10, count them ten, promotional codes for Archer's Score. Like all promotional codes these are use once burner codes, so move fast, if you snooze you loose. Please though, give us a nice review, some feedback, and stars, lots of stars...

P6NFNREH7KMH
R67LKTNXMWHT
46YHJ6A3J3LM
ELY3TRAT9TLH
7WA49YP7ANFM
AKNEWNFJW969
9HT63ATA9R9L
YARTJXPWEJAY
YPF9P7K7EJNX
RNTKHX63X6LF

To use a code, you'll need to bring up iTunes on your computer, enter the App Store, scroll to the bottom and under Manage click Redeem. Then enter the code and it will automatically bring up Archer's Score and credit a free version to your iTunes account. If a code is already used it will say so, then try another!

Remember as soon as they're used they're gone forever! Enjoy, and have a great weekend shooting.

--Scott


----------



## NCSUarcher

*ArcherScore*

Thanks so much for the download,looked through it and it looks awesome, can't wait to use it! Will put in a review after I use it. Been using archers mark since it came out and LOVE it!


----------



## BowDadToo

NCSUarcher,

Thrilled you were able to score a free AS download. Enjoy! Happy shooting.

--Scott


----------



## Bobbyson1a

Thank you Scott.


----------



## BowDadToo

Bobby,

You're very welcome, we aim to please.


----------



## mantra

I just gave AM 5 stars and wrote a feedback in the German Itunes. And of course I claimed a copy of AS. Thanks for that verry much!!!

Further...I browsed a bit throught AS and couldn´t find a oportunity to score only the X as ten for Fita Indoor rounds. Also I´m missing Fita Field in the scoring presets. So it would be nice if you would implent these two things in one of the next updates.

For Fita Field it would be 24 targets with 3 arrows each. Scoring form 1 to 6. That´s the part you probably already know  What I also would like to see, is an opporunity to mark every target as "known" or "unknown" distance. The score would be shown in two ways. First a total for 24 targets and second a total of all unknown and a seperate total of all known targets.


----------



## mantra

During training I thought a bit about AS and few more ideas came to my mind.

First...if you include Fita Field Scoring, the result should be shown as total (like I mentioned in the last post) and in addition to that the gold count (5s plus 6s) and the 6s count. 

The next idea was, that it the field, it would be great if you had the possibility to add and store notes to every single target. Also the possibility to take and attache one or two photos to every target.


----------



## zachbb42

I'm using a 20 click 24 turn sight. How do I figure out my mark? My 20 yard is 18 +2 clicks. What mark is that?


----------



## skullerud

I bought a Ipod Touch 3.gen just because of the AM, but I really would like to get Apple out of my bag, and just use my HTC Desire HD android 2.2.

I know You've said in the past that you're not working on a android-version, but the android share of the mobile market is growing fast, and is higher than apple in many markets, so I ask you to reconsider.


----------



## BowDadToo

18.1 There are 20 clicks per turn some dial sets are numbered and a single click exists between each numbered one.


----------



## BowDadToo

I'll talk with the team today about Android, and post something later.


----------



## JawsDad

That would be great.. I just dropped my iPhone and went to an Android myself. I pick it up today in fact. :whoo: The only factor that was holding me to that phone was using AM.


----------



## DLJ

BowDadToo said:


> So you like Archer's Mark, but you've not gotten Archer's Score yet. Don't fear I'm still in a great mood. So here are 10, count them ten, promotional codes for Archer's Score. Like all promotional codes these are use once burner codes, so move fast, if you snooze you loose. Please though, give us a nice review, some feedback, and stars, lots of stars...
> 
> P6NFNREH7KMH
> R67LKTNXMWHT
> 46YHJ6A3J3LM
> ELY3TRAT9TLH
> 7WA49YP7ANFM
> AKNEWNFJW969
> 9HT63ATA9R9L
> YARTJXPWEJAY
> YPF9P7K7EJNX
> RNTKHX63X6LF
> 
> To use a code, you'll need to bring up iTunes on your computer, enter the App Store, scroll to the bottom and under Manage click Redeem. Then enter the code and it will automatically bring up Archer's Score and credit a free version to your iTunes account. If a code is already used it will say so, then try another!
> 
> Remember as soon as they're used they're gone forever! Enjoy, and have a great weekend shooting.
> 
> --Scott


Didn't use a code as I already have AM + AS but have taken 2 minutes to leave a 5* review

Great software, keep it fresh (;o)

Dean


----------



## Bobbyson1a

AM is better then anything I have used in the past. I left a 5 star review.


----------



## Beastmaster

I sent in an email regarding Android, and I haven't heard back at all.

Any word on it?


----------



## BowDadToo

We're finally working on something, but it likely won't be available to the end of the summer. For now you can use our free tool at http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web


----------



## Dragon Queen

Any plans to do one for Windows phone 7? Especially since a migration tool just came out specifiacally for apps to go from ios to winpho7?


----------



## avid3d

BowDadToo said:


> We're finally working on something, but it likely won't be available to the end of the summer. For now you can use our free tool at http://www.ffxcorp.com/am/web


money to be made doing this, since android sales are greater than iphone...... lots of us want this


----------



## Dra6onX

*Clicks as marks*

Hi,
How many clicks v Archers Mark settings? To explain further, 26 +8 clicks on on sureloc is what on Archers Mark? Site marks on AM says 38.55, what is that in clicks?


----------



## Spoon13

Dra6onX said:


> Hi,
> How many clicks v Archers Mark settings? To explain further, 26 +8 clicks on on sureloc is what on Archers Mark? Site marks on AM says 38.55, what is that in clicks?



If your sight has 20 clicks per mark, then that would be 38+11. The output is in 10ths. With 20 click sights you have to double second half to get your clicks. 38.1= 38+2. 38.15=38+3 38.20=38+4 and so on. Hope that helps.


----------



## Dra6onX

Fantasic, thanks :wink:


----------



## Spoon13

No Problem. That's what we're here for.


----------



## NHLHVECTRIX

that helped me to. awesome product


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## Racing Archer

Ok, went looking for a new phone today and a main concern is the lack of a sight mark program for the android. I've seen the Archer's Mark for the Iphone and have been impressed, but I like the android phone better. Any news when AM will be available for the android?


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## SCarson

Racing Archer said:


> Ok, went looking for a new phone today and a main concern is the lack of a sight mark program for the android. I've seen the Archer's Mark for the Iphone and have been impressed, but I like the android phone better. Any news when AM will be available for the android?


Check back around post 456 (give or take a couple).


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## wolfman_73

I know im a late bloomer, lol just got mine, both phone and app. Love it guys. Thanks for all the hard work that went into this. 

Only thing i see is my speed is a bit hotter than what im shooting, but its not a deal breaker for sure :wink:


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## redman

Will a 1 gen Ipod Touch work archers mark or do i need 3.gen thanks for info


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## pragmatic_lee

Redman, I have a 2nd generation that was running AM fine before I got my iPhone. Not sure about the first generation, but I'll get up with the author Scott and ask him to respond to this thread.


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## pat13b

Hello,

I have a 1st gen Ipod touch and it will run as long as the Ipod firmware is NOT the latest. My Ipod was running 3.1.2 and updated to the latest for the 1st gen to 3.1.3 and the AM has problems. Stupid me, I didn't do a backup on the Ipod firmware, so I was stuck. Lucky, I was able to revert back to an older version of AM and that solved my problem.

So I guess yes and no on the 1st Gen Ipod.

-pat13b


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## redman

need info on what generation ipod touch will work archers mark thanks


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## pat13b

According to their website:
Requirements: Compatible with iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.Requires iOS 3.1.3 or later...But I can tell you my experince in my previous post, that the 1st gen iPod touch with the latest firmware seems to have problems.

-pat13b


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## redman

i give archers mark a AAAAAAA++++++++++++++++ works great takes archery to the next level how do i get archers score it does not come up on search


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## RatherBArchery

I just download both on my Iphone yesterday, make sure to enter Archer's Score. Have not used either much but need to run new marks this weekend, will give it the test then!!


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## Spoon13

redman said:


> i give archers mark a AAAAAAA++++++++++++++++ works great takes archery to the next level how do i get archers score it does not come up on search


It's been a while since I had to do it but I think you can just access Archer's Score through Archer's Mark and download it. Just tap the AS logo in the top left of the screen.


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## redman

The up hill and down hill cut is the same the up hill cut should about half of the down hill cuts that not good Archers advantage palm 
program has different cuts for up hill and down and they are right on used them for years. Any way i can fix it


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## redman

Any way to get a sight tape from am i see sight tape have no way to get it to work


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## BuckeyeRed

How's that android version coming?


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## Kade

BuckeyeRed said:


> How's that android version coming?


There isn't going to be an Android version. Scott posted that on their Facebook page a bit ago. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kade

redman said:


> i give archers mark a AAAAAAA++++++++++++++++ works great takes archery to the next level how do i get archers score it does not come up on search


I like Archers Mark for marks. But as far as scoring goes there are better options. TargetMate is a program that I have been using since last spring and it's a better scoring ap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BuckeyeRed

Kade said:


> There isn't going to be an Android version. Scott posted that on their Facebook page a bit ago.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's what I get for not participating in social media..Aside from AT that is..


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## edgerat

Archer's Mark is just the greatest thing EVER. I shot my first Field course this weekend with it and it was dead nuts, the whole way.


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## RatherBArchery

Anyone else notice there peeps/bunnies running hot??? What can I do to fix this???


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## Kade

RatherBArchery said:


> Anyone else notice there peeps/bunnies running hot??? What can I do to fix this???


Bunnies are off with AM. Don't know why it hasn't ever really been fixed. But there is an adjustment for it. You need to shoot 2 numbers more. Meaning if your mark is 30.2 you need to shoot 32.2


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## RatherBArchery

I also have AA and those always seem to be on but installed AM on my I-Phone for use at the club/course. Now I have yet to shoot the newest marks but AA shows 21.10 for my 35ft mark and AM shows 22.60??? I did use a very good 20 and 50 yard marks to get these numbers. 20 feet shows 27.10 for AM and 24.10 for AA???


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## golfingguy27

Kade said:


> Bunnies are off with AM. Don't know why it hasn't ever really been fixed. But there is an adjustment for it. You need to shoot 2 numbers more. Meaning if your mark is 30.2 you need to shoot 32.2


Actually it is the other way... 2 numbers LESS. 30.2 would be 28.2.. always seems to come out VERY close. I can handle this for a starting point. Would be nice if they came out right though.


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## jkohler22

I find the bunnies dead on, from my understanding the ballistics calculations are super dependent on the 2 measurements (peep to arrow and peep to pin.) You may want to recalibrate your measurements.


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## RatherBArchery

Will remeasure once I complete the draw board for the club. Had someone measure me at full draw so they should be VERY close??!!


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## Spoon13

The only Bunny mark I have trouble with is the 30 ft. It tends to run a little hot. However it does stay in the dot. I have measured from peep to the top of the arrow instead of middle and found that it helps the Bunny marks a bit and doesn't really affect the rest of the marks. I use ACCs in case anybody is wondering.


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## RatherBArchery

Will try all suggested. I shoot Carbon One's and usually measure to the top anyway. Thanks!!


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## golfingguy27

I will have to try measuring to the top of the arrow once and see what happens. I can assure though that the measurements that have been taken in the past are accurate. Myself and the first person who discovered the 2 digits off trick are both machinists who measure things for a living. I'm pretty sure we can handle this.. lol. I have used AM since the first year it was released and have set up many bows, some of them several times each, and have had the bunnies come out close to right exactly ONCE. I'm not complaining. I love AM and love being able to show up at the range with nothing and have a full set of marks 30 minutes later.


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## fibonacci4u

Is there any way to support a CBE Quad Lite target without clicks??


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## redman

Any way to get archers mark to do a sight tape i see sight tape in the set up and the send to my pc but can not get it to work


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## hdracer

I was looking to try AM but the only iPod Touch we have is 1st generation and I can't update it to a later OS version. Oh, well...


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## hdracer

Actually, there was a way to upgrade to a version that will run AM.. Now it is loaded. Just need to figure out how to run it now.


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## redman

any way to get a sight tape to match archers mark


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## edgerat

www.rcherz.com has a calculator section once you join. You can input your 20y and 60y mark, peep to pin and arrow to peep, arrow info and it will spit it out. Free.


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## Scott.Barrett

edgerat said:


> www.rcherz.com has a calculator section once you join. You can input your 20y and 60y mark, peep to pin and arrow to peep, arrow info and it will spit it out. Free.


This looks really interesting! Going to see how it matches up to my sight marks from this weekend....

SB


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## rcherz

I had exactly same problem as you wrote in the first post (I have Mac) and standrad applications like pinwheel were only for windows.

So I wrote own sight tape printing module 

Here is platform independent and free sight tape printing for all archers: 
http://rcherz.com/en/calculators/sightTapes

You need to signup here www.rcherz.com before you will start using it


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## hdracer

Your program seems to work pretty well. The marks it created were very close. I just made some bow changes and I'll use it again to see how it does. Thanks.


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## Dragon Queen

Will the program work on the nano 7th gen?


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## Spoon13

Dragon Queen said:


> Will the program work on the nano 7th gen?


It should. I'm running it on an iPhone 5 so you should be good to go.


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## redman

like to see archers mark make sight tapes


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## RchurE

The Nano doesn't run apps does it? I think it has to be a touch or a phone.


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## DHawk2

redman said:


> like to see archers mark make sight tapes


Follow the links in post #504 and it has a way to make sight tapes. I'm not sure if it is/has to do with Archers Mark.


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## SCarson

Dragon Queen said:


> Will the program work on the nano 7th gen?





RchurE said:


> The Nano doesn't run apps does it? I think it has to be a touch or a phone.


RchurE is correct. I pulled this straight from the Apple website in the section that compares the different iPod models. Under Capabilities:

"Music, movies, TV shows, videos, podcasts, audiobooks, photos, FM radio, Fitness Walk + Run support built in, Nike+ support built in"

The only iPod that will run apps is the Touch.


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## Dragon Queen

Thank you.


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## vftcandy

We need a Android version!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Beastmaster

vftcandy said:


> We need a Android version!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Agreed. 

And before anyone from FFX starts complaining that it can be pirated, I have two comments...

One - your software isn't that popular enough to be pirated. It's a very niche application that isn't attractive to the mainstream.

Two - I can show you how your software can be pirated off of an Apple device. Don't kid yourself that Apple is the end all and be all of anti-piracy.


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## vftcandy

IPhones Are kids toys....


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## skullerud

Once again. I'd love a android version. quit using the app, cuz I finally got rid of the last apple piece of sh** in my house.


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## tommartins

same issue here not working on mac


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