# Hows my form



## hoytrampage2013 (Mar 6, 2013)




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## Bowhunter.Jay (Jan 20, 2014)

Looks good to me. My want to spread your legs out a little farther out though, but thats my opinion


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## hoytrampage2013 (Mar 6, 2013)

Thanks man. Ive been giving advise on here so I figured I would make sure I was doing everything right. lol


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Release is 1" too long. You're leaning back with your torso and pulling your head back and turning it to the left to get your nose behind and onto the string. You're also tipping your head down to touch your nose on the string which is causing you to look up with your eyes to see through your peep instead of having your head and eyes in a relaxed neutral position. Your anchor is too high on your head probably so you can make contact with some structure on your head. If you were to drop it down to under your ear lobe, you wouldn't contact anything without really pulling your head backwards.

It's also hard to see because we can't see much of your legs, but your hips seem to be pointing to the right of the camera. If your target was at 9 o'clock, your hips would be facing 4:30. People do all of that usually when trying to fit into a DL that's too long.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> View attachment 1866800
> View attachment 1866802


New photo.
HEAD to toe.

Peep is in the wrong spot...too low.

Head not level, you are tilting your head down....JUST to have your nose touch the string.

LEFT shoulder higher than right shoulder.
Right shoulder lower than left shoulder.


Lose the sweatshirt.

Hips and shoulders are twisted....maybe.

Draw length clearly too long,
due to the downhill bow arm, JUST To use up the extra draw length, so you can hit anchor, for a picture.

Just like a draw bridge for a castle....
when the draw length is too long,
then,
gotta have the draw bridge below horizontal.


ARROW is NOT level.

If the arrow was level, you would have to lean back EVEN MORE than you currently are.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Need a door frame photo...like these.

Need a line level scotch taped to your arrow,
and the photographer needs to tell you WHEN you have the arrow DEAD LEVEL.

EDGE of a door...so you can truly stand up straight.





WALL works nicely to truly have you STANDING up straight. This fella has to lift his HEEL off the floor, and stand on ONE LEG, to truly stand up straight.



Using the corner of the wall to stand up straight, but the DL is SOOOO long, he cannot raise his bow hand high enough to get the arrow LEVEL.



Using a pole to stand up straight,
and a LEVEL to get the arrow...well....LEVEL.


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## hoytrampage2013 (Mar 6, 2013)

Thanks guys. I didnt know I was doing so much wrong until I looked at all the pictures. I am going to the bow shop at 2 to get everything worked on and then I will post more pics. Thanks everyone.


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## hoytrampage2013 (Mar 6, 2013)

Hi everyone. I just got back from a pro shop where the bow tech is a state champion 3d shooter. He told me not to change anything. He also told me that the draw lenght is fine and he remeasured me to make sure and it was dead on. I just wanted to write this because it is abvious some of you dont know what you are talking about. Have a nice day


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> Hi everyone. I just got back from a pro shop where the bow tech is a state champion 3d shooter. He told me not to change anything. He also told me that the draw lenght is fine and he remeasured me to make sure and it was dead on. I just wanted to write this because it is abvious some of you dont know what you are talking about. Have a nice day


Haha is that a joke? If it's true, your state champ is lazy and doesn't want to help you. A measurement will get you an approximate number to START at. The measurement is never the last step. But that's cool if you believe it. Do what you think is best.

I've worked as a coach in several different sports. One in particular I worked a cam with an Olympic champion in said sport. He had Olympic gold but was a terrible coach. He could perform his sport better than the rest of the world but he could not tell someone else how. Just because people are good at something doesn't mean they are good at explaining it. Just a thought.


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## AWT (Aug 17, 2005)

Wow, you asked for advice and then are rude to those who offered it. What a class act.

You would have been better served by asking why the difference between the “state champ” and the advice offered by others. 
The archery industry is full of people who can score well at tournaments but do not know why and many certainly cannot coach. You should be more open to trying changes in your form. There is a lot to know and I am continually surprised just how much you can learn if you accept you don’t know it all. 

To be fair on those looking at the photos you posted there is a big difference to seeing someone in the flesh and critiquing photos. 

You abviously thought there was room for improvement with your shooting or you wouldn’t have asked about your technique.
You definitely should not be giving any coaching advice to others on this forum as your knowledge is clearly limited to only your own shooting.


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## cgs1967 (Sep 29, 2011)

The State champ doesn't want to help you that is a given. Your draw length is too long for sure. Listen to what Nuts N Bolts said above he knows what he is talking about and he wants to help you.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I have several state championships. I've also worked with some of the top coaches in the world.

I will tell you that your state champion is NOT correct. Your bow's DL is long and you are rude. I will also tell you that nuts&bolts and the others who posted advice are right on every single point, and there are a couple of things not mentioned yet.

When you ask for our help, please don't insult us for honest (and accurate) replys.

I've seen many archers who shoot extremely well, but don't have good form. And most important, they don't have form that works for other archers. The one thing they have is consistency. The tips we offer are for those things that will allow most archers to be consistent. So don't tell us we don't know what we are talking about. We've studied this stuff for many years and spent countless hours helping our fellow archers shoot better.

Please appologize for your rudeness.

Allen


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> Thanks man. Ive been giving advise on here so I figured I would make sure I was doing everything right. lol


giving ADVICE...lmao.. YOU CANT FIX STUPID....GUESS YOU SHOULD READ IT SAYS ABILITY TO GIVE QUALITY ADVICE.!!!


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> hi everyone. I just got back from a pro shop where the bow tech is a state champion 3d shooter. He told me not to change anything. He also told me that the draw lenght is fine and he remeasured me to make sure and it was dead on. I just wanted to write this because it is abvious some of you dont know what you are talking about. Have a nice day


this was very very rude... Get a life, have a nice day


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## hoytrampage2013 (Mar 6, 2013)

I just think that it is funny how all the coaches on this forum can criticize people on there form from a picture. None of you can see what I am aiming at or see how my bow arm is bent. All of you stress about the best ancore point is the nose. If I would listen to you all and shorten my draw length I would have to tilt my head more to touch the string with my nose unless I bend my arm severely (which would kill the T efect you all talk about). If you all look at " nuts and bolts" pictures of the guy with " good form" his string sits the same place on his face as mine does. I do agree that my peep is too low but I feel that is all that is wrong. I also think that if you are consistant with your shooting and it is comfortable than stick with it. I can group a 2 inch group at 50 yards so my form must not be as bad as you all say it is. Also I have not seen any of the "coaches" post pictures of them self to show good form, Its always some other guy. I appreiciate everyones opinion but I feel that you all should have asked for more pictures to see exactly what I was doing.


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## redneck_pf (Aug 27, 2009)

They did ask for more pics


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## hoytrampage2013 (Mar 6, 2013)

Yes after they wrote a 2 page esay about what I was doing wrong. Should have asked for more before criticizeing me.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

YOU ASKED FOR OUR OPINION OF YOUR FORM!!!!

Now you complain because we give you our honest opinion????

Does this strike you as the right way to deal with people? Even over the internet?


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

To the OP. "Be careful what you ask for, you may get it!"

When you got a "looks good" in post #2 you were grateful and happy. But when the TOP instructors started to critique your form (a critique is different from criticizing) with suggestions for improvement, that wasn't what you wanted at all to hear. You wanted and expected a "clean bill of health" and when you didn't get it became offended and angry. Then suddenly, it was the fact that the folks responding didn't ask for more pictures?? "Nuts & Bolts" asked first thing before going to the effort of his post. If you felt that more pictures were required, why didn't you post them to start with??

The responders to your post were just trying, in good faith, to help you and the fact that you aren't as "perfect" in your form as you thought is really your problem, not theirs. As always, IF you are happy with your shooting, there is no reason to try what they have suggested -- in that case just ignore it and continue on. But to get "bent out of shape" because you got answers to your request that wasn't what you wanted is pretty silly.

Arne


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## redneck_pf (Aug 27, 2009)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> Yes after they wrote a 2 page esay about what I was doing wrong. Should have asked for more before criticizeing me.



You asked for an opinion based on those pics. You were given an opinion based on those pics. Now you wanna get mad about it. There's enough form threads on here that you should be able to tell what kinda pics are needed to evaluate. Please don't give much advise on other peoples form. 

You're state champ guy is full of it, there are several modifications to your form needed that are visible in those pics. If you can really hold 2" groups at 50 yards the champ should be asking your advice.


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## Tfox1 (Dec 11, 2008)

OP, your form isn't horrible and is really a good foundation to start, however, there are issues. Some on here have good advice and some, not so good.
To avoid the typical banter involved in these threads, I would advise you to watch some of Allistair wittingham videos on youtube called performance archery. The best FREE coaching one can get on the web I have seen.

The posture videos are really good and seeing how you are using a short a-a bow, he can help you with that as well.

My main issue that it looks like the release shoulder is really high (tension) may just be the sweatshirt.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> Yes after they wrote a 2 page esay about what I was doing wrong. Should have asked for more before criticizeing me.


didnt need more a pro like n&b can tell by looking....with.. what he had ..so you got what you asked for.


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## hooiserarcher (Feb 20, 2011)

2" group @ 50 yards? I doubt Levi Morgan can do that with any consistency and he is the top Archer in the world. Really O.P. you are starting to embarrass yourself.


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## hoytrampage2013 (Mar 6, 2013)

hooiserarcher said:


> 2" group @ 50 yards? I doubt Levi Morgan can do that with any consistency and he is the top Archer in the world. Really O.P. you are starting to embarrass yourself.


If you dont belive me I will take a video and post it on here. Just for the record I went out a min ago and tubed a arrow at 40 yards. A person that has as much stuff wrong with there form as Nuts and bolts says they do im sure can not do that.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Well obviously you weren't actually interested in hearing what anyone had to say so I don't think anything anyone says now will change your mind. I will say that you are ridiculous. If getting exactly what you ask for isn't what you want, don't bother asking. 

I set a girl up for her FIRST bow EVER last year and she robin hooded at 20 yards on her 10th shot. Even bad shots can get lucky. Just like a whole in one that bounces off a tree first, it doesn't mean you're good, only that you got lucky once.


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## AWT (Aug 17, 2005)

Rude one, you will never reach your potential because you do not listen.

You do not shoot 2" groups at 50 yards. You may have done so on occasion but no-one shoots 2" groups at 50 all of the time. 

You have lost any credibility on this forum with your rudeness and claiming you shoot 2" groups at 50.

Best you go and play somewhere else.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> I just think that it is funny how all the coaches on this forum can criticize people on there form from a picture. None of you can see what I am aiming at or see how my bow arm is bent. All of you stress about the best ancore point is the nose. If I would listen to you all and shorten my draw length I would have to tilt my head more to touch the string with my nose unless I bend my arm severely (which would kill the T efect you all talk about). If you all look at " nuts and bolts" pictures of the guy with " good form" his string sits the same place on his face as mine does. I do agree that my peep is too low but I feel that is all that is wrong. I also think that if you are consistant with your shooting and it is comfortable than stick with it. I can group a 2 inch group at 50 yards so my form must not be as bad as you all say it is. Also I have not seen any of the "coaches" post pictures of them self to show good form, Its always some other guy. I appreiciate everyones opinion but I feel that you all should have asked for more pictures to see exactly what I was doing.


1) coached BearArcher1980 completely with PICTURES, and coached him to a State Championship, with ONLINE training only, again, completely with pictures.

2) with a half body picture, not as good as a full body, head to toe photo...but, can still see room for making your shooting foundation MORE stable
*....so, when you are ready to EXPERIMENT with a MORE stable shooting foundation, I can cut your CURRENT arrow group size in HALF*
*....when you are ready....to learn something new*

3) if you are happy with your CURRENT Arrow group size, then don't change a thing

4) if you have NOT won a State Championship YET...
....then, if you would LIKE TO improve your shooting
....then, come on back and ask a question
....then, come on back and look for some NEW things to try in training.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

hoytrampage2013 said:


> Hi everyone. I just got back from a pro shop where the bow tech is a state champion 3d shooter. He told me not to change anything. He also told me that the draw lenght is fine and he remeasured me to make sure and it was dead on. I just wanted to write this because it is abvious some of you dont know what you are talking about. Have a nice day


So,
I have a TEST for you.





This is one of BearArcher1980's training photos.

This is a STRESS test.

A test of accuracy.
A test of consistency.
A test of MENTAL toughness, mental fortitude.

ONE arrow in your quiver.
Shot at YOUR training distance.

SIXTY shots.
Fire your one arrow,
from your duct tape shooting line,
and then,
pull your ONE arrow.

Back to the shooting line,
and fire your ONE arrow,
and then pull your ONE arrow.

If you can pass this TEST,
then,
you are ready for my NEXT STRESS test,
for my ADVANCED ONLINE ONLY students....where I just look at photos.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

So,
if you pass the FIRST stress test,
then...

you are ready for the NEXT STAGE.

*This test is MUCH harder to complete successfully.*


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Try to SPLIT a single strand of bowstring material
from a 5 YARD shooting line.

I only use this TRAINING tool for my TOP online students,
where I look at photos,
usually HEAD to toe photos.

With my ENGINEERING training
and my medical training....(worked on an experimental artificial disc for the neck)
so,
you might say, I have some background is anatomy, and how the bones and joints work together...or don't work so nicely together..

this is why,
I can tell quite a bit,
from even just a HALF photo (upper body only).


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Hmm Wonder why he didn't want to cut his 2 inch group at 50 cut in Half????

anyway I took Alan's stress test.

first with my compound, took all the cam lean out at full draw, then at 5 yards shot fletched and bare shaft.
View attachment 1868943


then with my compound with just the sight on the bow, no stabilizers split the one strand of 452X bowstring material.
View attachment 1868946


then with my compound with bare shaft on top of fletched, Bare shaft hit fletched so in crooked. but split the string.
View attachment 1868948


So then I took my Olympic recurve Bow (Hoyt Medalist Old bow), No sight, no stabilizers just me and my fingers Looking at the string
with my compound field bare shaft arrows. and split the string with one the next one pushed the string
View attachment 1868949


Here is a freeze frame of my form from a random video I made while shooting my compound.

View attachment 1868950



I have since changed my stance to bring my shoulders more parallel with the target line, I call it getting narrow more like my recurve stance. 

So what do you coaches think??


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

From the RESULTS,
I wouldn't change a thing.

One more thing,
don't shoot more than one arrow at 50 yards.
Might get expensive.

hehehehehehehehehehehehe.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Bees said:


> View attachment 1868950
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well if I were the supposed West Virginia State Champ, I'd say you need to add 1 1/2" of DL, Lower your peep so you have to drop your head to see through it, lean back and twist your hips so your body is contorted into a more stable and comfortable position. Finally, lengthen your release by 1" so you have to raise your anchor to even touch your knuckle on your head. 

But since I don't know anything about this stuff, I better just tell you to keep it like it is cuz it's working! Nice shooting!


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

nuts&bolts said:


> From the RESULTS,
> I wouldn't change a thing.
> 
> One more thing,
> ...


I shoot 50 arrows a night in a month that's about 1500 arrows.
the last 2 months I have been working on the rhomboid squeeze thing.
ready to start incorporating the aiming into this new routine with my compound.
the rhomboid squeeze thing sure works good on the old recurve too..


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Bees said:


> Hmm Wonder why he didn't want to cut his 2 inch group at 50 cut in Half????
> 
> anyway I took Alan's stress test.
> 
> ...


I am a BIG fan of the more "narrow" recurve stance.
Very stable.
Rock solid alignment, when at full draw.

So,
since you are ONLY posting ONE picture...

a single HEAD to toe photo...

these are the LIMITED things that I see.

a) resolution is kinda low, but the release hand appears to be the horizontal style..mostly

b) release side forearm is at 2 degrees negative (below horizontal)

c) upper body/backbone is vertical and upper body is centered above the lower body

d) appears to be a neutral shooting position

e) small pelvic shift, slight weight bias towards the left leg

f) legs, knees and ankles appear to have no issues

g) any lower lumbar troubles, on one side?

I would experiment with the d-loop length,
try and optimize the RIGHT side forearm angle.

When we get the RIGHT side forearm angle to a sweet spot position,
ONLY if there are no shoulder issues...

I would have you run experiments
to get the elbow (RIGHT SIDE) a little higher,
tip of elbow inching up slightly higher and higher,
to see how the STRESS test results change.

30 shots.
One arrow in the quiver.
Shoulder height x-ring.
Duct tape shooting line.

I would have you run a baseline test,
AS-IS,
no changes,
to establish a pattern, an arrow hole pattern.

Mostly looking to optimize the HIGH-LOW miss pattern.

Then,
we would run several experiments,
maybe vary the d-loop length,
in combination with tiny adjustments to the nock height on your face,
in combination with tiny adjustments to the BOW DL....
maybe some small changes to the lower body stance, FOOT position (x and y directions)

to see if we can cut YOUR stress test results
in HALF.

The goal,
is to get ONE arrow hole STRESS test results...

for advanced shooters like yourself,
and "others".


BEFORE...photo of one of my ONLINE students.



He asked me for an opinion.

I said...change one thing.

AFTER...photo.




RESULTS of HIS stress test, 30 shots, ONE arrow in his Quiver.



Another satisfied customer.


RESULTS based tuning,
completely ONLINE,
by looking at photos,
and for my advanced students,
FREEZE frame analysis (studying "film") from video clips.


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## BoHunter0210 (Oct 3, 2011)

Wow, pretty bizarre. I appreciate all of your guys help. Archers helping archers. Nice shooting BeeS.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

nuts&bolts said:


> I am a BIG fan of the more "narrow" recurve stance.
> Very stable.
> Rock solid alignment, when at full draw.
> 
> ...


OK I can shorten D loop to get release elbow up,
I'll shoot 30 arrows at my distance like it is.
then I'll shorten loop and shoot 30 more with elbow higher from same distance.
always thought I was a little flat back there anyway.. 
since I don't quite know what to do with my stabilizers just yet, I'll shoot these with bow and sight only. for base line.
I had stabilizers heavy at Lancaster had trouble on my last 8 out of 9 arrows, I figured out what went heywire and corrected on my last arrow with an 11 but it was to little to late, I finished in 9th place.. Heavy stabilizer's hold nice but I might have went a little overboard with the weight.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Bees said:


> OK I can shorten D loop to get release elbow up,
> I'll shoot 30 arrows at my distance like it is.
> then I'll shorten loop and shoot 30 more with elbow higher from same distance.
> always thought I was a little flat back there anyway..
> ...



SHOOT with your FULL rig,
to get a representative arrow hole pattern.

BASELINE hole pattern,
with your ENTIRE setup AS-IS,
pick a distance where you arrow hole pattern is at LEAST 4-diameters in size.

Then,
try a new d-loop,
shorter than your current one.

GENERAL goal is about 15 degrees negative,
to get the elbow ABOUT top of ear height above the ground.

There is some swing, some lee-way in this angle...

of course, depending on HEALTHY shoulder structure,
or SLAP TEARS 
or rotator cuff damage PRE-surgery
or rotator cuff damage, repaired POST-surgery,
or un-equal length collar bones, cuz onen side was busted previously.....

so,
for healthy shoulders, I'm looking for about 15 DEGREES negative,
for a release hand that is about 45 degrees.

With YOUR release hand,
picture resolution is kinda fuzzy..

15 degrees negative will physiologically not be possible or comfortable...

so,
the GENERAL rule of thumb,
is that you can more ACTIVELY,
is that you can more EFFICIENTLY
load the back muscles
with a bit more NEGATIVE on the forearm (release side)...

You will see a TIGHTENing of the arrow group hole pattern, a more FLAT pattern..
as you approach the sweet spot.


So,
we are looking for THIS kind of improvement.

FROM a BASELINE of THIS....



30 shots,
ONE arrow in your quiver,
at a "challenging distance" for my online student...

to THIS...



SAME distance,
SAME duct tape shooting line

MUCH more consistent arrow hole pattern,
cuz this is 30 SINGLE shots,
walking back and forth to pull the ONE arrow
for EACH shot.

So,
find your sweet spot
for the d-loop length,
which controls the NEGATIVE angle on your release side forearm.

YOUR window of adjustment,
anatomically,
will be narrow,
due to the kinda horizontal position for your release hand.

Need a higher resolution pic,
to do a BETTER analysis.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Bees said:


> I had stabilizers heavy at Lancaster had trouble on my last 8 out of 9 arrows, I figured out what went heywire and corrected on my last arrow with an 11 but it was to little to late, I finished in 9th place.. Heavy stabilizer's hold nice but I might have went a little overboard with the weight.



AGREED.
SUPER heavy is SUPER stable,
UNTIL you start to FATIGUE.

That's built into my STRESS TEST.

If the front stick is TOOOOOO much front heavy,
the 30 single shot stress test,
also shows the results,
from the fliers,
as your shoulder starts to get REALLY tired.

So,
shoot with all stabilizers,
AS-IS,
and do a baseline with your current d-loop
and
then,
WATCH as you hold STRONGER and MORE STEADY,
with a SIMPLE d-loop length adjustment.


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

I have been working on the rhomboid squeeze thing for awhile now and finally got the feeling when shooting the bow while aiming the bow. Starting to shoot the bridge with this technique. so thought I would do Alan's Stress Test. 

With my shoulder Angle guiding me:


View attachment 1872227




at my starting distance with one arrow in my quiver I got this result.

View attachment 1872226


What the bridge teaches me: is that it is OK for the sight picture to float, just trust the float and shoot the shot.


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## criss-p-bacon (Sep 5, 2013)

lol,..1 opinion is right vs many saying it isnt...Hmmmm.. ...peep is to low at the very least., rest isnt to bad, doesnt matter what your aiming at for a low peep to see your head slightly cocked downward to align in peep. and you dont HAVE to touch string to nose, its just a second anchor if its possible, not all are shaped he same
not sure im time zones to the time stamp on your post saying you just went and did a 40 yrd tube shot...its in middle of the night with your post time stamp, did it in the dark to?


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## juststartin08 (Jun 20, 2008)

i'm waiting for the video


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## redneck_pf (Aug 27, 2009)

Bees said:


> I have been working on the rhomboid squeeze thing for awhile now and finally got the feeling when shooting the bow while aiming the bow. Starting to shoot the bridge with this technique. so thought I would do Alan's Stress Test.
> 
> With my shoulder Angle guiding me:
> 
> ...


Where can a feller get one of those shoulder angels?


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## JimBlake (Jan 21, 2014)

What I don't get is what's the harm in trying out the advice given to see if it works better or worse for you? There's a guy who shoots at my local outdoor range and he is there every single day; morning, noon and night ...sometimes I go to other ranges and he's there too. This guy clearly shoots a lot and he's quite good. One day I asked him for advice and he just smiled and told me he doesn't give advice anymore. I didn't push him because I imagine he's given plenty of advice only to hear how he doesn't know what he's talking about. The last week I was at an indoor range (actually trying to meet up with a fellow archer from this board, but couldn't quite connect) and there was a tournament shooter drilling Xs in the lane behind a compound shooter who was all over the place. The guy shooting the Xs, who clearly had a lot of time behind the bow, offered up advice to the other guy that he should shorten his draw length. He even asked the guy if he wanted him to have the shop guys shorten it up. It seemed like advice you might want to listen to coming from a guy who was casually shooting a 300 round. The guy made some comment about his brother setting up his bow and his brother is an expert and then packed his stuff up and left all offended. 

What's the worse that could happen? If you try something and it doesn't work for you at all, you can just make a note and change it back. If you're not currently at the top of your game and you want to shoot better, the place to start is looking at what the people who shoot better all have in common and trying to apply that to your own form. Not everything will necessarily work better for you and you may have to adapt a particular concept to your own body mechanics. Reo Wilde has notably less than perfect form, but has a form that works well for him after what I'm sure were a lot of incremental changes. I'm sure he didn't just go to his local bow shop and ask the guy who sold him his bow if it was setup perfectly and then stick with that. But then again, he's not shooting 2" groups at 50 yards. 
Here's Jesse Broadwater also not shooting 2" groups at 50 yards, YOU SUCK JESSE!!


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

JimBlake said:


> .... Reo Wilde has notably less than perfect form, but has a form that works well for him after what I'm sure were a lot of incremental changes. I'm sure he didn't just go to his local bow shop and ask the guy who sold him his bow if it was setup perfectly and then stick with that....


Actually Reo might.  The shop where he gets his bows delivered to is owned by his dad, Dee Wilde. Reo probably hasn't caught up to Dee for tournement wins yet.  

But your point is valid. The OP doesn't have a many time world champion giving him advise. He has a local guy who apparently doesn't know much about coaching. 

It's hard for someone to take critism when someone they trust has told them to do it a certain way. It doesn't matter if the guy they trust is just pulling his advice out of his *****. Sometimes realization dawns when someone with real credentials and accomplishments gives them different advice. Sometimes not. Figuring out who's advice to take isn't easy. There are a few different ways to accomplish this archery stuff and while they are usually complementary, sometimes not. Unfortunately the OP doesn't have the basics, doesn't understand the basics, is not willing to consider the right way to do it and decided to be rude about it. This is one guy who won't be listed as a top archer unless he decides to listen to people who know a bit more about archery than the local guy.

Rant off 
Allen


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## JimBlake (Jan 21, 2014)

aread said:


> Actually Reo might.


Ha, probably. But he might want to switch shops and get the 3D state champ to set him up to shoot some 2" groups at 50 yards.


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## gpace21 (Nov 11, 2016)

I want to see the video.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

The best way to settle this is for the op to go out and win some major tournaments. Until this happens it is just all talk.

I think that the state champ is sceard. He wont help because he wants to win next year.


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## Bowgren2 (Jul 13, 2016)

I for one would like to see proof of the 2" groups at 50 yards. I have seen it done from a bench with a rifle but never with a bow. I would like to know how you would prove this to us, since videos can be altered. 
Consistency is the key to accuracy, many have form flaws that they always do the same. No one wants to hear possible problems exist, open minded people will take coaching advice as advice. 
The innate ability to subconsciously repeat and trust a complicated sequence time after time (under stress!) with machine-like duplication is not a common personality trait. The biggest problem is our personality. I want fast results like most however everything takes time. These "how is my form threads" really get me. If I could shoot 2" groups at 50 yards, I would not care what my form looked like.
Show enough pictures that include what you are aiming at, or pay a coach for advice but don't bash someone trying their best to review two photos for free advice. I try to ask what problems the student wants to correct, however without communication it is impossible to get results.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

dont hold your breath waiting on this video its a 2 year old post:chicken01:


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