# Broadhead for Buff & Hippo



## Bushkey

Drenalinjunkie8 said:


> Which broadheads would you guys reccommend for Buff & Hippo.
> 
> German Kinetics?
> Big Five?
> Magnus Stinger 2 blade?
> Rocket Ultimate Steel 2 blade?
> 
> Also what have you guys used with success.
> 
> Looking at using a Axis FMJ 300 with inserts that should push arrow weight up to ±750gr. Remember this is just a ball park figure. Arrow weight is excluding broadhead.


I have not shot Buff or Hippo. But if I had to I would fork out the extra bucks and go for the German Kinetics. I have only heard good things about them.


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## mogodu

Ek sekondeer German Kinetics:rock:
Ek het by Philiph van hulle gesien
Awesome!!!!:banana::dog1:

Groete
Stefan


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## Philip Moolman

*Big 5 Broadheads*

Bossie en Stefan is 100% in die kol.Ek sal niks anders as n German Kinetic gebruik nie,hulle is flymskerp en slyp moer maklik en jy kry hulle tot 210gr.Belinda gaan volgende jaar n buffelkoei skiet met n 125gr German Kinetic(Silver Flame)


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## Karoojager

I hunted in 2004 /05 / 06 / 07 with German Kinetics ( 125 gr SilverFlame ) and was very satisfied with them.
Actually I work on my Mathews Safari ( 95 lbs ) set up for big animals and will use a 800 to 900 grain arrow, by all my attempts with arrows and different employments at my bow, it is IMO a must to use the 210 grain German Kinetics.
I know personally the owner of German Kinetics Markus Groß and I hear how many customers are very satisfied with his broadheads at big animals. The price is for this broadheads is much higher as products from other customers, but what is a different from 100 Rand at one broadhead by a hunt of maybe 50000 Rand ?


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Philip,

Waar is julle van plan om n buffel koei te kry? Ek is self opsoek na een.

Hoop nie ek pla nie as ek vra. Pobeer ook om een deur een van my vriende te kry wat baie goeie vriende met Adriaan de Villiers is.

Sal julle op hoogte hou.

Stem saam die German Kinetics is uitstekend.

Karoojager, maybe you should mention to Markus about bringing out a German Kinetics with a Tanto tip. If you read on Dr Ed Asby's reports you will see what it is. He however already really likes the Silver Flame.


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## INGOZI

I think all things being equal, you get what you pay for with the German Kinetic broadheads.

All the best of luck for your hunt!


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## Karoojager

Drenalinjunkie8 said:


> Karoojager, maybe you should mention to Markus about bringing out a German Kinetics with a Tanto tip. If you read on Dr Ed Asby's reports you will see what it is. He however already really likes the Silver Flame.


@ Drenalinjunkie8

Do you have a link to this report ? I am every time open to eat lessons:wink:


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Karoojager,

Here's the link.

http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/
http://tradgang.com/ashby/Momentum Kinetic Energy and Arrow Penetration.htm
http://tradgang.com/ashby/Broadhead Performance.htm
http://tradgang.com/ashby/Arrow Lethality 1.htm
http://tradgang.com/ashby/Arrow Lethality 2.htm
http://tradgang.com/ashby/Arrow Lethality 3.htm
http://tradgang.com/ashby/Arrow Lethality 4.htm
http://tradgang.com/ashby/Arrow Lethality 5.htm

There are a few more. Let me know if you want some more.

I must say that after reading it all it makes a lot of sense.

I like the idea of a broadhead with a tanto tip with a single bevel edge.

According to my knowledge there is not something like that currently available and am looking at maybe developing something like that.

Well there's a few reports. Read them all they make good reading.

Enjoy


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## Karoojager

Thank you for this link Drenalinjunkie8.
Lot of stuff to read but very interesting. I will discuss after read with Markus about you idea, but I am sure Markus know Asby`s study word by word.
Let you know the result.


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## Matatazela

@ Drenalinjunkie - the Tanto point idea is debateable for the following reasons:

The tanto that most people refer to is an americanised design popularised by Cold Steel in the 80's, whereas the true tanto or katana point is a traditional Japanese design going back millenia. The americanised design is more aptly called a chisel point. If you look at Cold Steel's website, there is a knife called a Konjo - which is available with a true tanto point and the chisel form. The main advantage of the chisel type point is physical strength. This comes from the very steep bevel at the point, where the blade goes from full thickness to a ponit over a very short distance. The penetration is impressive only because these blades do not break. 

If you have ever tried to sharpen such a blade, you will quickly realise that it is a difficult task! The true tanto point is curved in a more parabolic fashion, for lack of a better description without the hard angle of the chisel point. 

For sheer bone-breaking (car door stabbing!) strength, go with the americanised point, but I believe that overall performance will be better with a more curved blade style.

What I would love to investigate is a German Kinetics with a differential bevel, from steep at the very tip (45 degrees or so) to split heavy bone, to 1/4" (6mm or so) where it flattens out to the 25 - 30 degree angle of a more effective cutting edge. 

Just my 2c worth!


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## ASG

Go with the new 260g chisel tip Big5. I've seen them shoot through Elephant ribs like a hot knife through butter.
One of my clients has guided Dangerous Game bowhunts for the last 21 years and rates the new Big5 as far superior to any other big game broadhead.


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## Matatazela

ASG said:


> Go with the new 260g chisel tip Big5. I've seen them shoot through Elephant ribs like a hot knife through butter.
> One of my clients has guided Dangerous Game bowhunts for the last 21 years and rates the new Big5 as far superior to any other big game broadhead.


... or you could do that! 

Just saw those for the first time and they look impressive. http://www.tawkhaw.co.za/ They list it as a 250gr though?

I must also just clarify from my earlier post that the GK broadheads are fine looking, and probably do not need any tweaking!


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## Philip Moolman

*Buffelkoei*



Drenalinjunkie8 said:


> Philip,
> 
> Waar is julle van plan om n buffel koei te kry? Ek is self opsoek na een.
> 
> Hoop nie ek pla nie as ek vra. Pobeer ook om een deur een van my vriende te kry wat baie goeie vriende met Adriaan de Villiers is.
> 
> Sal julle op hoogte hou.
> 
> Stem saam die German Kinetics is uitstekend.
> 
> Karoojager, maybe you should mention to Markus about bringing out a German Kinetics with a Tanto tip. If you read on Dr Ed Asby's reports you will see what it is. He however already really likes the Silver Flame.


Dit lyk nie of dit n probleem behoort te wees nie.Ek het gisteraand met my vriende van Tzaneen boogklub gepraat.In die Hoedspruit Phalaborwa omgewing is daar baie.Ek sal jou dadelik laat weet.
Groete
Philip


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## Gerhard

German Kinetics is the only broad head I will use to hunt thick skinned animals.

If you have the money to spend on hunting one of these animals the German Kinetics will not be expensive at all.

Gerhard


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## Dugga Boy

Drenalinjunkie8 said:


> Karoojager, maybe you should mention to Markus about bringing out a German Kinetics with a Tanto tip. If you read on Dr Ed Asby's reports you will see what it is. He however already really likes the Silver Flame.


Actually I'm planning a single-beveled pachyderm broadhead for the future (maybe 2008).
The tip will be similar to a Tanto but more convex to break bones easier at the tangentials of the edge.
It's just for the guys who want the last bit of penetration and for those who can't handle extreme equipment (drawweight).

The regular SilverFlames stay unchanged since they already took many elephants, too.
Another plan is to offer a 125gr. and 150gr. with a 1.5" cutting width for plains game.
The custom made SilverFlame with a 1 7/8" cutting width (48mm) performed flawlessly on whitetail deer so far.

Cheers
Markus


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## btchamp

Couldn't help but weigh in on this one. Pete Shepley completed his African Safari this year shooting one of his PSE Mach-X bows and German Kinetics 210 grain Silverflames. He took two great trophies with one arrow each. A bull elephant and a bull cape buffalo. One shot kills. Pete's a super shot, which is a strong contributor to success, but the German Kinetics heads performed flawlessly.

I'm shooting the same head out of my Bowtech Tribute @ 78 pounds (maxed out). My Alaska Bowhunting Safari shafts are 29", bringing the finished arrow weight in at 820 grains. I broke many other broadheads shooting into the steel rods in my 3D targets, but not the Silver Flames. They'll dull a bit on one side when they hit the rod, but keep driving through the target. Nothing tough enough on the hoof in the US to test live, but they sure blast through both shoulders of a large boar hog without difficulty.

I do shoot the Magnus Stinger 125 grain 4 blades with Easton AXIS FMJ shafts for my light skinned game (deer/hogs & hopefully Sable).

German Kinetics is a great head in my opinion. The blade thickness is best in class along with the surgical sharpening.


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## Philip Moolman

*Silver Flames*



Dugga Boy said:


> Actually I'm planning a single-beveled pachyderm broadhead for the future (maybe 2008).
> The tip will be similar to a Tanto but more convex to break bones easier at the tangentials of the edge.
> It's just for the guys who want the last bit of penetration and for those who can't handle extreme equipment (drawweight).
> 
> The regular SilverFlames stay unchanged since they already took many elephants, too.
> Another plan is to offer a 125gr. and 150gr. with a 1.5" cutting width for plains game.
> The custom made SilverFlame with a 1 7/8" cutting width (48mm) performed flawlessly on whitetail deer so far.
> 
> Cheers
> Markus


Markus,
Belinda is already practising with 125gr Silver Flames for her buffalo next year.The groupings are excellent.The arrow flight is perfect.She is almost at 60lbs.
Regards
Philip Moolman


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Markus,

After a long struggle managed to find some GK's. Only one problem though, they are 100gr. Would have liked a slightlier heavier broadhead but I know these will work just fine. I will use my Axis FMJ 300's @ 30" and will try and find a 5mm od nylon/polyprop round bar/rod to slide into them. If I have ±850gr pushing behind it I feel it will be more than enough. My concern about using a too heavy broadhead (200gr +) is that as soon as it hits an object it causes the arrow to flex too much behind it and hence affecting penetration. Have more confidence in having the shaft pushing more than having to rely on the broadhead weight.

Will also try and get a photo of a tanto tip (according to me) for you guys.

Markus I also like the description of the new broadheads that you are talking about. Will be very eager to try them out. 

Here's a link that shows the tanto tip.
www.bowhunters.org.au/Broadhead Study Part 1.pdf


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Guys,

In reffering to a tanto tip I refer to the drawing that I have attached.

Markus this drawings is for illustration purposes only. I made a rough drawing/idea on what a GK with a tanto tip might look like and hope you will understand. In no way am I trying to steal you design. As I've said this is for illustration purposes only.

Markus would you be able to do something like this with a single bevel edge?

Thanks


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## Matatazela

Cool CAD work there, DJ8!


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## Dugga Boy

Drenalinjunkie8 said:


> Markus,
> 
> After a long struggle managed to find some GK's. Only one problem though, they are 100gr. Would have liked a slightlier heavier broadhead but I know these will work just fine. I will use my Axis FMJ 300's @ 30" and will try and find a 5mm od nylon/polyprop round bar/rod to slide into them. If I have ±850gr pushing behind it I feel it will be more than enough. My concern about using a too heavy broadhead (200gr +) is that as soon as it hits an object it causes the arrow to flex too much behind it and hence affecting penetration. Have more confidence in having the shaft pushing more than having to rely on the broadhead weight.
> 
> Will also try and get a photo of a tanto tip (according to me) for you guys.
> 
> Markus I also like the description of the new broadheads that you are talking about. Will be very eager to try them out.
> 
> Here's a link that shows the tanto tip.
> www.bowhunters.org.au/Broadhead Study Part 1.pdf


Drop me a line at [email protected] if you want. I have heavier heads in stock.

I politely have to disagree on one point. 
It's right:The more the arrow shaft deflects on impact the more you loose penetration ability. However, that deflection is only determined by the arrow's rear end or better it's mass at the nock end. Not by the broadhead.

The broadhead weight causes to flex your arrow shaft during the shot (acceleration by the string) and reveals the proper or improper dynamic spine of your setup. It doesn't cause deflection on impact.
Furtherone Ashby has proofed a correlation of a high FOC, thus broadhead weight and penetration depth.

Blade:
One major factor of penetration is the ability of the blade for the "initial cut".
The more narrow the very tip is, the easier it will cut through soft tissue.

The challenge is to engineer a tip which is as narrow as possible but as rigid as necessary at the same time. Your drawing above shows a large angle at the tip. That thing is pretty close to indestructible but brings too much surface at one time on the target.

I have no decent drawing of my sketches yet but it will have a convex tip with a single bevel. That minimizes the surface to generate an inital cut easier and will be as strong as a "straight tanto" if not stronger.

A lot of work for the winter evenings overhere.

Markus


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Markus,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have however bought 6 100gr silverflames this morning. Its the only stock the shop had. I needed them quiet urgently and thats why I bought them. I appreciate you trying to help I however need them within the next 3 weeks and for me to buy more heavier silverflames will have the wife on my case. Supposed you wont be able to swop them for me?


I agree on the convex tip with single bevel. That will be awesome. Well I guess you should get started then as there is a big demand for those. Should you need any people to test it then I will be more than willing.:wink: hint hint....

Thanks


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## Matatazela

Back a few posts to what a tanto tip is. The chisel-like design here could be improved upon by using the traditional tanto shape, with a curve rather than the steep bevel. Take a look at the cold steel website at the traditional design (top) and see what I am getting at. What you see there is as close to the Silver flame as one is likely to get. The silver flame edge reverts to full thickness rapidly, making the blade strong without losing out on cutting power. The chisel point may be stronger, but the strength that we are talking about is, in realistic terms, overkill.


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## Drenalinjunkie8

James,

Is overkill to much when youre life depends on it?:wink:

As I said this is just an idea and we learn from each others ideas. I will look at the cold steel website and get back to you.

Thanks


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## Matatazela

Overkill is fine, but if it comes at the expense of penetration... Remember, Cold Steel made their tanto design famous by puncturing drums, car doors, planks, bulletproof vests - things that could generally really screw up a knife tip. Also, when stabbing, you have massive assymetry of force on a knife. It is moving in an arc, rather than a straight line. A broadhead has far more symmetrical force applied from the rear.


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Hi Guys,

Ok built my shafts this weekend. All I'll say is they are awesome. Shaft alone weighs 880gr. Remember this is a Easton Axis FMJ 300 which I used & modified to to get the weight. What I LOVE about it is the thin Ø!!!! Total arrow weight is 980gr. I made a nice mod to improve my FOC. I struggled to get heavier GK broadheads due to a certian *&^^%&((&^%^%%^& shop in Pretoria..... Now I have to make do with the 100gr. 

I inserted 50gr in weight behind the insert by accesing it from the nock end.
That was epoxied down. Following that was my "special" insert which was weighed & fine tuned. It goes in so nice & snug it pops like a cork when I pull it out. That was then epoxied at the front& back so as not to affect my spine too much.

I have spun them and shot them and they fly soooooo well!!!!!! I am now shooting them out of my guardian @ 80lb. I'm getting 202fp/s with a 980gr arrow! Would have liked 220fp/s. But this will do.....

What do you guys think???


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Oh by they way 5 out of the 6 shafts weigh EXACTLY the same. Only one has a 1gr difference!!!:wink:


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## Matatazela

Cool! That is a lot of weight to be flinging through the air. The Axis is super, but an Axis that weighs nearly 1000 gr is going to do some impressive damage! The thin shaft should add penetration worth at least that 20fps that you so desire.


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## Dugga Boy

Those arrows will just "drop" through the animal, whatever comes in their way.

Best of luck
Markus


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Markus,

I hope so.

Very happy with the accuracy as well. Getting a 1" grouping @ 30m which I think is great for such a heavy arrow.


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## Karoojager

Hey Drenalinjunkie8

Try this German Kinetic 1 7/8" cut and 184 grain weight:wink:
seems this is buff stuff.:wink:


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## Drenalinjunkie8

Frank,

Saw those on the forum. Very impressive. Would love to try that on Impala, Blue Wildebeest etc. With the right arrow I think it would be devastating.

Imagine doing our mouse safari with those!!! Now who said the guilotine was old fashioned:wink:


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## Matatazela

184 gr broadhead
125 gr broadhead adapter
100 grain Muzzy brass insert
411 30" Rebel Hunter
232 gr weight tube (8 gpi @ 29")
8 gr nock
18 gr Blazers and glue


= 1078 grains of death.


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## Drenalinjunkie8

James,

Isn't that a bit of an overkill for the mice?


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## Matatazela

Drenalinjunkie8 said:


> James,
> 
> Isn't that a bit of an overkill for the mice?


Overkill??? Ha! Have you ever hunted those things??? They're deadly, I tell you! 

Actually, at about 20 grams, the average mouse only weighs in at less than a third of that arrow!


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## Drenalinjunkie8

I was severely mauled by one of those. Thought they had to amputate my limb. LOL.


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