# CX Medallion XR's - Maybe the perfect youth outdoor recurve arrow.



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

For those wondering, her 25" arrows weigh 200 grains total weight, with 60 grain points, pin nocks and elivane P2's.

Her draw length is a hair under 26" and she's drawing these inside the riser, hence the need for her to move to 1800's soon.

So if you have a kid shooting about 22-23#, try these 2000's at 25" total length. That should get you in the ballpark.


----------



## RecurveDad (Mar 9, 2012)

Thank you Sir!

We are going to be basiclly changing up everything for summer and I still haven't figured out the science behind arrow selection. I'll try and figure out what she should use and if I can't figure it out we'll just drive over there - LOL!


----------



## LittleJP (Nov 4, 2012)

They're great for anyone who's looking for cheap arrows reaching out to the max distance possible on low draw weight. I'm using them and they're fine and far more accurate than I am.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Great write up, adorably illustrated. 

The question of "what arrow" comes up on AT cyclically, but those threads can get a bit convoluted and can be confusing. This kind of nicely written, well-informed and pro-active post is great and I think it will help a lot of lurkers find arrows for kids in their programs.

I don't think we've got anyone shooting CX Medallion XRs yet but we do have a number of people shooting Carbon Impact Super Clubs. However, I like the fact that the XRs have a labeled spine deflection. My spine tester only goes down to .9  I think we have a number of kids who might do well with the XRs when they are ready to move up.


----------



## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> For those wondering, her 25" arrows weigh 200 grains total weight, with 60 grain points, pin nocks and elivane P2's.
> 
> Her draw length is a hair under 26" and she's drawing these inside the riser, hence the need for her to move to 1800's soon.
> 
> So if you have a kid shooting about 22-23#, try these 2000's at 25" total length. That should get you in the ballpark.


This is a great tip. I wish that we had considered these for my daughter when she was a Cub. I really wish that USA Archery would save us parents a lot of money and our children a lot of pain and tears by dropping the range for cubs down to 40 meters but until that day light carbon arrows are the kinder, gentler choice.


----------



## andyman1970 (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for posting this John - I've been looking for a solution for something similar.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow, thanks. The Super Club is a fantastic arrow for most beginning archers needing a lightweight carbon solution for outdoors, or even indoors. However, even the lightest Super Club arrow (10/20) is still about 1000 spine, meaning at full length (IIRC, about 28"), you will have to push it with at least 27-28# to get it to tune. 

Under 1000 spine, there just aren't many good options. These CX Medallion XR's really fill a void in the market, and one that can potentially make or break a young, competitive recurve archer's career. They are about 2x the cost of the Super Clubs, but they are worth every cent IMO.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

RecurveDad said:


> Thank you Sir!
> 
> We are going to be basiclly changing up everything for summer and I still haven't figured out the science behind arrow selection. I'll try and figure out what she should use and if I can't figure it out we'll just drive over there - LOL!


You're welcome to come on down!  Yesterday I had a parent tell me they were going to fly back to Texas after they moved away so I could set up and tune their daughter's bows. LOL! It was a flattering comment, but really illustrated to me how little understanding remains in this country about selecting the proper arrow for recurve archers - esp. those at 1000 spine or less.

I'm hoping with the surge in interest for recurve target archery, more shops and coaches will be forced to learn (or re-learn) what was once common knowledge in this country, pre-compound/release. So, I think we're just at the bottom of the valley of knowledge here, and things will get better soon. The arrow selection and standardized spine measurements for carbon arrows has most certainly gotten a lot better just in the past 10 years. So that's progress.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 20, 2009)

The XR's are probably one of the best arrows for young archers that are shooting light poundage recurve or compounds.

The current National Indoor Bowman Recurve champion uses XR's specifically. They tune out great for him, and his dad is as obsessive about good youth recurve equipment like I am with creating/setting up good compound equipment for youth archers.

To me - having a properly spined arrow is as important as having a properly tuned bow. It makes no difference whether you shoot with or without training wheels. And - nothing cranks on overconfident people when you're kicking their tails with skinny arrows. Just ask me about Vegas this year and I'll tell you lots of fun stories about just that....

-Steve


----------



## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

The XR is a good shaft no matter what you shoot. I use the .600 out of my 42# bare bow and they fly like darts.


----------



## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Great advice John, I will be looking at these for my son now.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Warbow, thanks. The Super Club is a fantastic arrow for most beginning archers needing a lightweight carbon solution for outdoors, or even indoors. However, even the lightest Super Club arrow (10/20) is still about 1000 spine, meaning at full length (IIRC, about 28"), you will have to push it with at least 27-28# to get it to tune.


Yeah, I have to say I was a little surprised when I put one of the 15/25s on the spine tester and got .9 inches. Kind of stiff for the stated 15/25 pound range--especially if cut down from full length. I wish CI would put the actual deflection on the arrows to help us select within the ball park. We don't all have spine testers, and mine doesn't test below .9 inches, so it doesn't help in these ranges. :dontknow:


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Warbow, that would help. I think those Super Clubs are spined for compounds maybe? That's just giving Pierre the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I'd say they were spined by a lawyer.


----------



## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Limbwalker, what vanes are those on the xr? look like gas pros maybe? Do you use the beiter nocks?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Her fletchings are Elivane P2's. Nocks are pins and McKinney pin nocks (only because her serving is pretty thick and they fit the best on that particular string). 

Gotta say she was shooting lights-out yesterday, holding red or better on nearly every end at 50 meters. It's really amazing to me what you can do with just 22# in the right hands, with the right arrows.


----------



## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

We are taking the plunge on some skinny arrows in the next few weeks for the daughter. I am intrigued by the xr compared to the ACE and the specs look better on the xr at the 1000/900 range we'll be looking at but I can't find the diameter of the ACE's. Anyone know the diameter of comparable ACE's? The daughter is usually red or better at the distances she shoots and we think the smaller diameter will hold better in the wind. She currently uses Carbon Ones.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I just ordered some 1800s for a small cub girl who started with us this last October. we will see how they work.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Not sure about the OD on the 1000/900 Medallion XR vs. ACE but I can tell you the 1800-2000 spine XR's are the smallest diameter arrow I've ever seen. It's ridiculous hot skinny they are. I've seen pipe cleaners that were fatter.


----------



## TheOldNewbie (Mar 31, 2012)

Warbow said:


> Yeah, I have to say I was a little surprised when I put one of the 15/25s on the spine tester and got .9 inches. Kind of stiff for the stated 15/25 pound range--especially if cut down from full length. I wish CI would put the actual deflection on the arrows to help us select within the ball park. We don't all have spine testers, and mine doesn't test below .9 inches, so it doesn't help in these ranges. :dontknow:


I got .970 for my Super Club 15/25 and 1.240 for my wife's 10/20. They are supposed to be the same as the CI Ultra Fast 950 and 1200, so fairly close per my measurements. The Ultra Fast are also available as soft as 1500.


----------



## Archery Ang (Apr 24, 2006)

Cora's and Sarah's Medallions will be here tomorrow.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I got .970 for my Super Club 15/25 and 1.240 for my wife's 10/20. They are supposed to be the same as the CI Ultra Fast 950 and 1200, so fairly close per my measurements.


I'd buy those numbers for those shafts. 

Angela, that sounds great! If you need/want any help setting them up or tuning them, you know where to find me.


----------



## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

limbwalker said:


> Warbow, that would help. I think those Super Clubs are spined for compounds maybe? That's just giving Pierre the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I'd say they were spined by a lawyer.


While the website says recurve and compound, I agree with the lawyer comment.. "Won't blow up or shatter" if shot with a maximum poundage of "25" for the 15/25 arrows.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

RecurveDad said:


> Thank you Sir!
> 
> We are going to be basiclly changing up everything for summer and I still haven't figured out the science behind arrow selection. I'll try and figure out what she should use and if I can't figure it out we'll just drive over there - LOL!


you might look at 1500 ACC for your daughter. she's taller than many of the bowmen I have coached. Ian shot those as a 12 year old. he had shot ACEs at Iowa and we were having some issues with them -never got them flying right (1400). They were a gift which is why I had them. We went to the 1500 ACC and put spin wings on them. This seemed to work. he was drawing about 23 inches with 24/26 MI Hoyt Limbs on a WW Pro ACCENT. (23") riser. with those he shot a 1330 level FITA to win the NTC and at the regionals in Indiana (144 arrows @ 30 Meters) he broke a NR at 30M and set the regional record, those ACCs were what he also shot indoors (with feathers). Now he is pulling about 25 with 36 pound limbs and is shooting some long X10 1000s that spine slightly stiff (we got a bunch used-might switch to slightly lower spined ACES though). I like AC when I can get them to work-so much easier to find if there is (er WHEN THERE IS) a miss. 

I have seen kids shoot some really high scores at 30M on the big target even with some poorly spined arrows. often three sizes too "stiff"

when we are dealing with small cubs shooting 50 Metes then the lightest possible arrow is needed. I have a girl that is all of 4-11 who is thirteen, i ordered the XRs for her (actually 2000s-I checked my order).


----------



## tjk009 (Feb 15, 2007)

John recommended the XR 1800 early last summer, thank you kind sir. They are well made, packaged, use adult components and tune well as Steve and I have discussed in Rio Rancho this spring. Tyler started winning with them and hasn't stopped: Outdoor Nationals, Hoyt World Open, JOAD Bowman and Indoor Bowman Champion. He just got back from the OTC and was shooting them out to 60M and could probably make 70M if I brought his sight in, with #26 Sebastian Flute Elite Carbon limbs. And no we are not sponsored. I will gladly buy the next spine size up in a month or so. Best archery purchase of my and Tyler's career.


----------



## RecurveDad (Mar 9, 2012)

Jim C said:


> you might look at 1500 ACC for your daughter. she's taller than many of the bowmen I have coached. Ian shot those as a 12 year old. he had shot ACEs at Iowa and we were having some issues with them -never got them flying right (1400). They were a gift which is why I had them. We went to the 1500 ACC and put spin wings on them. This seemed to work. he was drawing about 23 inches with 24/26 MI Hoyt Limbs on a WW Pro ACCENT. (23") riser. with those he shot a 1330 level FITA to win the NTC and at the regionals in Indiana (144 arrows @ 30 Meters) he broke a NR at 30M and set the regional record, those ACCs were what he also shot indoors (with feathers). Now he is pulling about 25 with 36 pound limbs and is shooting some long X10 1000s that spine slightly stiff (we got a bunch used-might switch to slightly lower spined ACES though). I like AC when I can get them to work-so much easier to find if there is (er WHEN THERE IS) a miss.
> 
> I have seen kids shoot some really high scores at 30M on the big target even with some poorly spined arrows. often three sizes too "stiff"
> 
> when we are dealing with small cubs shooting 50 Metes then the lightest possible arrow is needed. I have a girl that is all of 4-11 who is thirteen, i ordered the XRs for her (actually 2000s-I checked my order).


Thanks for the info Jim! Maybe I will get a 1/2 dozen of both and see how they work out. She is shooting 27" shafts now and pulling through the riser, and she says she wants to up her weight from 25 pounds at the fingers, so I am thinking a 28" shaft at 27 pounds - hopefully that will buy me a year - LOL! I know this only gets me 2 inches of growth till we need new arrows, buy I pray everyday that she stops growing, so call it fatherly optimisim 

George


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Good recommendation Jim. The weakest (00) size A/C/C's accept the A/C/E components. However, they will be heavier than the corresponding Medallion XR spine, so keep that in mind.


----------



## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

This is going to sound like an old Irish Spring soap commercial, but I think I might have to try the Medallion XR (made for kids, but strong enough for a man).  My Bing-fu is weak this morning - what is the raw length on the 500's and 600's and will they both take ACE points and pins? The Beiter datasheet was last updated in 2006. Any chance the Medallion XR will take a Beiter In-Out?

I'm thinking that maybe I can leave the 500's long and trim them / decrease point weight as I move up in drawweight. I have a ton of ACE points, 2 dozen pins, and 2 dozen Beiter ACE In-Outs. I'd like to use what I have on hand if at all possible.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Medallion XR's will not take A/C/E components, but the stiffer spined Medallion Pro's will. 

Not sure what the raw length is on the 500 and 600's. Might try calling CX to see.


----------



## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

I emailed CX about the stock length of the 700 spine shafts in Medallion XR and they claimed that they're 31 inches at 700 spine but the response I got was not confidence inspiring. It was something like "I think they're 31 inches". I haven't been brave enough to order some to find out - I need the 31 inches myself.


----------



## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

limbwalker said:


> Good recommendation Jim. The weakest (00) size A/C/C's accept the A/C/E components. However, they will be heavier than the corresponding Medallion XR spine, so keep that in mind.


The young lady in question has excellent technique and is tall for her age yet only shooting 30 Meters max. I find the ACC arrows to be durable (my indoor set-shooting usually a one spot) have lasted 7 years (I have a practice set of 16 left out of 24 and a tournament set of 12) and far easier to find with the metal detector if one misses the target. Distance will not be an issue for this young lady at either 30 M or 50 M due to her draw stroke.


----------



## TER (Jul 5, 2003)

InKYfromSD said:


> This is going to sound like an old Irish Spring soap commercial, but I think I might have to try the Medallion XR (made for kids, but strong enough for a man).  My Bing-fu is weak this morning - what is the raw length on the 500's and 600's and will they both take ACE points and pins? The Beiter datasheet was last updated in 2006. Any chance the Medallion XR will take a Beiter In-Out?
> 
> I'm thinking that maybe I can leave the 500's long and trim them / decrease point weight as I move up in drawweight. I have a ton of ACE points, 2 dozen pins, and 2 dozen Beiter ACE In-Outs. I'd like to use what I have on hand if at all possible.


Last April when I bought my Medallion XR 500's the stock length was 31 inches and there were no insert nocks that fit.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yup Jim, those "double-ought" A/C/C's are great arrows for the money. Essentially the same arrow as the corresponding spine A/C/E at half the price, since at those spines the barrel taper of the A/C/E is nearly imperceptible.


----------



## Arsi (May 14, 2011)

Hate to jump into a thread but John, im trying to reply to your PM but it says your mailbox is full


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Gotcha


----------



## JF from VA (Dec 5, 2002)

Hey John, do you use the Carbon Express spine charts when choosing shaft size? I am looking at the Medallion Pros for compound, and the CX charts show a weaker spine than other sources (Archers Advantage) show. I talked to the CX rep at Louisville and he assured me that the CX spine charts were spot on.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Sorry, but no. I use my own experience, or I steal from the Easton charts, based on what I know. The CX charts are not only too complicated, but they are not practical for recurve shooters at all. In 2007, I was asked by CX to come up with recurve-specific charts for their new arrows. They used them and they were published in the 2007 or 2008 (I don't recall) Lancaster's catalog. I spent a lot of time coming up with those charts, and tested them across a wide range of spines with several of the archers I coached. Then for some unexplained reason, they just stopped using them. Go figure.

The CX formula and charts cannot be any more spot-on than the Easton charts, which only work for those who 1) really, really know how to set up a bow and tune an arrow/bow together, and 2) have some personal experience to combine with those recommendations. 

Sorry, but there is no one-stop-shopping anywhere for recurve arrow spine. Every bow, and every archer, is different.

John


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Let me add this: I've had enough people come to me SWEARING they knew what they were doing and that "x" spine just wouldn't tune from their bow, only to find that after about 10 minutes (or less) of me adjusting their bow, miraculously, that exact spine shot perfect. I've also had folks insist an arrow was right for their bow only to find out within minutes, that they needed an arrow several spine sizes stiffer or weaker. 

I'm not sure why it's so difficult - even for intelligent people - to figure out how to tune a recurve bow and arrow shot with fingers, but it is apparently. Even though all the information a person needs is right there in the Easton tuning guide, Murray Elliott's guide, Tuning for Tens guide, etc., etc. It's not like there is a shortage of information out there on how to do this stuff.

I'd say if you aren't changing your own oil in your car, you probably shouldn't be trying to tune your own bow. Just my .02


----------



## elarock (Nov 15, 2012)

InKYfromSD said:


> This is going to sound like an old Irish Spring soap commercial, but I think I might have to try the Medallion XR (made for kids, but strong enough for a man).  My Bing-fu is weak this morning - what is the raw length on the 500's and 600's and will they both take ACE points and pins? The Beiter datasheet was last updated in 2006. Any chance the Medallion XR will take a Beiter In-Out?
> 
> I'm thinking that maybe I can leave the 500's long and trim them / decrease point weight as I move up in drawweight. I have a ton of ACE points, 2 dozen pins, and 2 dozen Beiter ACE In-Outs. I'd like to use what I have on hand if at all possible.


I'm not sure this will help with your spine, but I emailed Beiter and they got back to me within a day. I asked if I'm able to use In-Outs for MXR 800's and it looks like I can't. They said I can use pin-nocks (of course) or my other option would be to use the Insert-Nock (size 304). Again this is for the 800, but I'm sure if you shoot them a message you'll get your answer.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

limbwalker said:


> Let me add this: I've had enough people come to me SWEARING they knew what they were doing and that "x" spine just wouldn't tune from their bow, only to find that after about 10 minutes (or less) of me adjusting their bow, miraculously, that exact spine shot perfect. I've also had folks insist an arrow was right for their bow only to find out within minutes, that they needed an arrow several spine sizes stiffer or weaker.
> 
> I'm not sure why it's so difficult - even for intelligent people - to figure out how to tune a recurve bow and arrow shot with fingers, but it is apparently. Even though all the information a person needs is right there in the Easton tuning guide, Murray Elliott's guide, Tuning for Tens guide, etc., etc. It's not like there is a shortage of information out there on how to do this stuff.
> 
> I'd say if you aren't changing your own oil in your car, you probably shouldn't be trying to tune your own bow. Just my .02


Hmm...you could start a chain of Limbwalker Jiffy Tune stores 

You've said in the past that it wouldn't be worth it for you to write a book because there is so much out there, and I agree to some degree, especially given that archery books never will be best sellers, no matter how good they are--it is a niche sport. However, there are a number of areas where most archery books are deficient. Selecting arrows is, I'd say, the number one area that they are lacking. Viper is one of the only authors to have attempted to tackle it head on in Shooting the Stickbow, but he's old school and only has solid recommendations for aluminum arrows. I think some stand alone follow up threads on your approach to selecting arrows and tuning would be great. You are a good writer and have a knack for cutting to the chase.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

My favorite nock option is the Beiter out-nock. One part, direct fit. There is an out-nock for every arrow, if you just figure out what the O.D. of that arrow is, you can find a corresponding Beiter nock that will fit. Some might need a tiny bit of teflon tape to pick up the slack between the nock and shaft, but there will be one that fits. 

For example, my Nano Pro 500's used a 4.92 out nock, or a 5.00 out nock if I used a little teflon tape. They also used the X10 out nock (a.k.a. the Beman Carbon Flash out nocks). My Nano Pro 450's proudly wear 5.2 Beiter Out Nocks. 

Just get a caliper and measure the O.D. of the shaft, then select the corresponding out-nock and go shoot. Most accurate combination you can use. Thousands of Koreans can't be wrong about this...


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Limbwalker's first jiffy tune store is already open in Columbus, Texas.


----------



## elarock (Nov 15, 2012)

limbwalker said:


> My favorite nock option is the Beiter out-nock. One part, direct fit. There is an out-nock for every arrow, if you just figure out what the O.D. of that arrow is, you can find a corresponding Beiter nock that will fit. Some might need a tiny bit of teflon tape to pick up the slack between the nock and shaft, but there will be one that fits.
> 
> For example, my Nano Pro 500's used a 4.92 out nock, or a 5.00 out nock if I used a little teflon tape. They also used the X10 out nock (a.k.a. the Beman Carbon Flash out nocks). My Nano Pro 450's proudly wear 5.2 Beiter Out Nocks.
> 
> Just get a caliper and measure the O.D. of the shaft, then select the corresponding out-nock and go shoot. Most accurate combination you can use. Thousands of Koreans can't be wrong about this...



Thanks John, that sounds like a better option. According to the CX site, MXR 800s are .230" (5.842mm). Is the 5.84 Out-nock too tight or would I go with the next size up, which is 5.9 with Teflon tape? 

Ps. I'd stop into a Limbwalker Jiffy-Tune if there were one nearby. Hah


----------



## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

The shaft guides (pdf and software) are kind of like a Montana speed limit sign - reasonable and prudent. Use some common sense, a little caution, and your experience and you'll be ok. And you have to be willing to put in a little work once you get the shafts.

Anyone ever do anything useful with the pieces cut from the front of the shafts? The A/C/E 470's I normally use are about $.76 an inch. Nothing like buying a dozen shafts and then cutting $18 worth of them off before you do anything else to them.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

InKYfromSD said:


> The shaft guides (pdf and software) are kind of like a Montana speed limit sign - reasonable and prudent. Use some common sense, a little caution, and your experience and you'll be ok. And you have to be willing to put in a little work once you get the shafts.
> 
> Anyone ever do anything useful with the pieces cut from the front of the shafts? The A/C/E 470's I normally use are about $.76 an inch. Nothing like buying a dozen shafts and then cutting $18 worth of them off before you do anything else to them.


Well, I have seen people use a few inches of aluminum shaft to "foot" smaller shafts. Dunno about doing that with target ACE's though. More of a trick for stump shooting.


----------



## InKYfromSD (Feb 6, 2004)

*re: Length of 500 and 600 spine shafts*

I was able to confirm with CX that the 500's and 600's are both 31". It took her a while to find. I would think that that information would be readily accessible for all of their shafts.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Nothing like buying a dozen shafts and then cutting $18 worth of them off before you do anything else to them.


Guess I don't have that problem... LOL!


----------

