# Barebow vs. Olympic



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

In some cases, zero. In others, quite a bit. 

What I mean by that is you can take virtually any "Olympic" riser and shoot barebow with it and you can take virtually any "barebow" riser and shoot Olympic with it. There are just some features of risers that are designed with barebow archers in mind. Most notably, being able to add weight below the grip. 

Risers designed with barebow archers in mind will have the ability to add quite a bit of weight to the riser, below the grip, and still pass through the 12.2cm ring.


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## montblanc (Nov 7, 2014)

The main differences I would say is the legality and extent of your setup. As barebow is meant to be more "bare" the you limited on your accessories. A lot of the rules can be found in the WA handbook, but most notably, weights may only be attached to the lower part of the riser below the grip. No dampening devices on the riser (If they are limb mounted like formula limbs, I believe those qualify as limb savers. I could be wrong). Entire riser must fit through a 12.2 cm ring or 4.803 inches. No Sights, Stabilizers, and Clickers.

But in terms of risers, you can use almost any riser as a barebow or olympic riser. The most significant differing features however is lime Limbwalk said, the ability to add weights directly into the riser. Some that I can think of off the top of my head are Spigarelli, Gillo, Bernardini. These all have internal weight systems to make the riser heavier while passing the wring.


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## arc2x4 (Jun 4, 2007)

Mainly barebow risers are heavier than Olympic risers, and they have a provision for adding weight easily to the riser.
Look at the Italian risers like Bernardini, Best, Gillo, and Sprigarelli. 
They make risers that are designed to accommodate internal weights.
The barebow riser should balance and tend to fall forward (upper limb moves away from the archer) on release without the use of a 
long stabilizer as you would see on an Olympic bow or a compound.


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## gary royce (Feb 5, 2009)

Excellent..Thank you for the explanation


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Barebow specific risers balanced to sit in the hand with very little tilting forward or backwards. Freestyle (olympic) risers are designed to work with stabilizers. Take all the accessories off, they will roll out of the hand.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

arc2x4 said:


> Mainly barebow risers are heavier than Olympic risers, and they have a provision for adding weight easily to the riser.
> Look at the Italian risers like Bernardini, Best, Gillo, and Sprigarelli.
> They make risers that are designed to accommodate internal weights.
> The barebow riser should balance and tend to fall forward (upper limb moves away from the archer) on release without the use of a
> long stabilizer as you would see on an Olympic bow or a compound.


Why should a barebow riser's be balanced to fall forward on release? I hear this all the time. Videos of some of the top barebow shooters seem to show them either tilting back, sitting rock solid, or tilting forward.

The when studying high speed videos, all of the bow's rolling motion occurs after the arrow has left the string and thus any riser motion after this point will have no influence on the arrow's flight.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

The CofG being as in front of the hand as possible within the rules creates resistance to movement around the vertical (torque) and lateral (tilt) axis. Weight near the ends of the riser resist movement around the longitudinal.
Beyond not getting smacked in the head the forward tilt is more a result of setting up the bow for maximum stability during the aim. I've not seen any bow which will roll forward on internal weight alone once the limbs are mounted.

Grant


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

We understand the purpose of weights and inertia to help with the float of aiming. 

But the question that I have is more about how the rotation of the bow during the shot. There are people that believe that a barebow must either sit solidly in the had after the shot, or rock forward slightly in a loose hand - but any rocking back (not to the point of hitting one in the head, but a few degrees) is considered bad for a barebow.

When one is looking at the high speed video of the shot, the arrow has already left the string before one starts to see any significant motion in the riser. This is the same whether its a barebow or heavily front weighted Oly bow.

The same barebow can be tillered to rock forward or backwards on the shot, even when it has the same weights. The idea here is not to bring into the aiming process or how weight distribution helps with the aiming process, but to address the very specific issue about the bow having to rock forward slightly during the shot is preferred over a bow that doesn't or rocks back slightly.

I have seen a lot of posts about riser designs being bad because of how the riser balances in the hand, and yet other people can shoot that same riser and get excellent scores.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Pete, 

I don't see any WA Barebow legal weight system having any meaningful effect during the arrow launch. I don't see any reason why we as archers should focus so much mental energy on mid and post shot movement. Put the amount of weight you can handle into the locations which create the most stable aiming platform and go from there. For me that is a bare riser with 34oz in the front. It rolls forward after the shot but really that is a secondary effect of having the CofG in the most stable position.

Grant


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## granite14 (Nov 10, 2014)

I'm coming to the conclusion that it doesn't matter that much until you maybe get to very high levels of skill. I've shot similar scores on a Hoyt Horizon with 8oz off a 3 in stab long bar connector, a WF25, and a Gillo with weight. All the risers out shoot my abilities. pretty much any olympic style riser with an X spot 12oz weight in the stabilizer bushing should be fine up to highest levels of barebow.


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## DanZ (Feb 17, 2009)

Gary, it should be mentioned that the tec bar risers will not fit through the 12.2 cm ring.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

grantmac said:


> Pete,
> 
> I don't see any WA Barebow legal weight system having any meaningful effect during the arrow launch. I don't see any reason why we as archers should focus so much mental energy on mid and post shot movement. Put the amount of weight you can handle into the locations which create the most stable aiming platform and go from there. For me that is a bare riser with 34oz in the front. It rolls forward after the shot but really that is a secondary effect of having the CofG in the most stable position.
> 
> Grant


Thanks Grant,

I understand what you are saying. 

All this mental energy is working to separate what works for certain individuals vs what works regardless of skill level. We see a lot of comments about different riser designs, positive, negative or neutral. But how much of this is based on physical properties of the riser vs personal preference. For example, is that 34 oz weight in the front going to be the same regardless of the riser design? Or is that best for the riser you are currently using. Whereas a different riser would have a different weight at a different location.

We know that olympic risers and barebow risers tend to have big differences in their balance. As in the original question - what is the difference between the two. If we take an olympic style riser and add 34 oz weight to the front and then compared it to a barebow riser with the same 34 oz weight up front. Would they shoot the same from the same archer? Would the float be the same, but the riser shoot differently.

If certain weight distributions are technically superior regardless of the archer's skill level, then why don't all the manufacturers build that into their design?

Or are weight distribution highly dependent on the skill level of the archer?

Or is it a combination of the two.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I think any WA Barebow legal riser with the CofG in front of and below the throat of the grip is going to behave well during the shot. Total mass will depend mostly on the DW and archer preference.
I personally think that so long as the balance and mass are to taste most risers will shoot about the same.
For me grip shape is more important than anything else, I simply can't tune or shoot around a grip that doesn't work. I like low and narrow like a compound. Which may also be the reason I like quite a bit of mass.

To be totally honest there simply aren't very many "barebow" risers which are anything but a heavier version of any Olympic riser. Very little change in geometry has been done in any of the designs. Whether that matters or not is up for debate. I don't personally think it matters all that much under WA rules. 

Grant


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

Thanks Grant,

Excellent points here.

Pete


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

After a 4-5 week break from shooting due to shoulder injury I took all my BB weights off the Vanquish (450g), it did tip back just a little but nothing to warrant any concerns, what I did notice was that it was harder to maintain a steady/relaxed float, too much or too little weight seems to affect balance at anchor more, and ultimately how relaxed you can hold on aim. 

After a week or so and settled I shot just as well with no weights added but it seemed just less effort with the right amount of weight (and obviously in the right place), I have gone the other way and put too much weight on, so you have to find that sweet spot that makes the shot feel effortless.


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## XForce Girl (Feb 14, 2008)

Not to hijack the thread but this is exactly what I have been looking for.

Short story: A young man bought a wooden Samick Sage from me a few months ago (3) and picked it up really fast. I encouraged him to come to JMU Indoor Nationals with us. He was shooting the male senior barebow division and came in second place. 16th in the country. 

Needless to say he is ready to buy a nicer bow and really wants to stay in the BB division. In the chance that BB doesn't stay around, I told him he should look at a nice Oly Recurve riser and just shoot BB with it.

Thats where this thread comes in. So, I also would like to know what you all think about what direction this young man should go.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

XForce Girl said:


> Thats where this thread comes in. So, I also would like to know what you all think about what direction this young man should go.


Think when you're fairly new to the sport it's good to keep your options open, just because most don't really know just how many varied options are available in this spot and your direction can change quite quickly. 

My other half bought a Prodigy last year, I shot it BB and worked really well (I really like the grip), I see a lot of Win&Win risers being shot, I guess the Carbon risers make it easier to balance with BB weights and they always tuned easy for me.


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## dkard (Sep 25, 2004)

If buying new, I would get a Gillo G1 or G2, I don't think you can beat the price on those with the current exchange rates. The G1 is a beautifully made riser too.


dave


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## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

dkard said:


> If buying new, I would get a Gillo G1 or G2, I don't think you can beat the price on those with the current exchange rates. The G1 is a beautifully made riser too.
> 
> 
> dave


I agree. I love my Gillo, just shot indoors OR with it, but taking stabilizers and sights off of it to shoot barebow at US Open.


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

dkard said:


> If buying new, I would get a Gillo G1 or G2, I don't think you can beat the price on those with the current exchange rates. The G1 is a beautifully made riser too.
> 
> 
> dave


Absolutely. Amazing choice of colors, and fantastic quality to boot. 

On balance, the G1 has so many options with the internal weight kit, external BB cover in aluminum and brass. And now the modular weight kit with a steel insert. 

I have the riser inserts and aluminum BB cover on my G1M, and while the bow does kick back a little, I do OK. I'm going to experiment with the modular weight system next week.


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