# 2008 JOAD National Outdoor Championship, Mandatory Jr USAT Qualifier



## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

2008 JOAD National Outdoor Championship, Mandatory Jr USAT Qualifier
On Time Registration due June 1, 2008
http://www.okchampionarchery.org/

Team rounds have been fully sponsored and are free to all participants.
Be sure to take part in the Team Rounds!

Also, contact the tournament for planned revisions to the coach access arrangements.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*On Time Registration due June 1, 2008*



Serious Fun said:


> 2008 JOAD National Outdoor Championship, Mandatory Jr USAT Qualifier
> On Time Registration due June 1, 2008
> http://www.okchampionarchery.org/
> 
> ...


On Time Registration due June 1, 2008


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

From the Tournament Information paragraph, page 1 of 12 of the Tournament registration and information page.

"Registration Information
Individuals, All Divisions: 
$100 US, postmarked by midnight June 1, 2008
$125 US if postmarked after June 1, 2008
Cancellations accepted thru June 20, 2008
- 25% service charge will be retained on all refunds
- No refunds after June 20, 2008.
A separate registration form is required for each participant
The registration form may be photocopied for use by others"

I suspect that there will be more names on the registered archer list posted on Monday as the registration of those that sent their regisrations in on June 1st are received and processed.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

As of June 23, 2008, there were over 180 JOADs are registered for the Tourney. Seven from AZ!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> As of June 23, 2008, there were over 180 JOADs are registered for the Tourney. Seven from AZ!


JOAD National Championship Participation Statistics by Year.
2007 171, Chula Vista CA 
2006 229, Cincinnati, Ohio
2005 217, Orlando LF
2004, 264, Conyers Georgia
2003 268, Denver, Colorado
Subject to verification.


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## Archery Ang (Apr 24, 2006)

I think we're going to try to go. Cora is very adamant that she wants to shoot. Nothing like waiting until a week before to decide. Kids...


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## Rhinopolis (Jun 22, 2006)

Angela, I hope you guys go. Mary will be thrilled if Cora is there!

Tim Payne


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Hopefully the tourney can accommodate 181.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Serious Fun said:


> Hopefully the tourney can accommodate 181.


I called Gary and he said it wouldn't be a problem at all.

-Andrew


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

we will be there-Ian, the two McLaughlin twins, J Tyler Hoge, Sean Curtin (our third cadet recurve olympian) Brent Hankins (who is shooting cmpound and then will go almost straight to NJ to defend his national Xbow title) and Chelsea Obreski (Junior girl recurve). Sadly Douglas "Whirley" Pace has pulled out. 

did you get the second batch of strings for the wife?


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

At last count there are 18 kids from the South Texas Archery JOAD club coming. He have notified the proper authorities in Oklahoma that Texas is about to invade their state. Don't be surprised if your kids are approached with a "howdy" and "do y'all want to shoot team with us."


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## Archery Ang (Apr 24, 2006)

Maybe in a couple months Cora will be joining South Texas JOAD...

Jim, we got the strings. Thanks SO much!


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

TomB said:


> At last count there are 18 kids from the South Texas Archery JOAD club coming. He have notified the proper authorities in Oklahoma that Texas is about to invade their state. Don't be surprised if your kids are approached with a "howdy" and "do y'all want to shoot team with us."


Team rounds, right on. I hope they are the biggest JOAD team rounds ever. Spectators, be sure to whoop it up! Dont be shy.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Be sure to visit the tournament website for the lasted information:
http://www.okchampionarchery.org/

Note the "Announcements" link; 
Information about “no coaches allowed at the waiting line during regular FITA shooting” and free team rounds are posted there.
http://www.okchampionarchery.org/announcements.htm

Check out all the tournament website links, before, during and after the tourney.


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## ArchUSA (Mar 12, 2003)

Bob,
For the record, the 20th National Joad Championships held in Carver, MA in 2000 attracted 348 young archers.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

ArchUSA said:


> Bob,
> For the record, the 20th National Joad Championships held in Carver, MA in 2000 attracted 348 young archers.


Thank you,
Anyone have 2001 and or 2002 numbers?
It will be great to see the JOAD National Championship return to the East in 2009 after a missing a cycle. The numbers will be very telling.

2007 171, Chula Vista CA (West)
2006 229, Cincinnati, Ohio (North)
2005 217, Orlando FL (South instead of East)
2004, 264, Conyers Georgia (South)
2003 268, Denver, Colorado (West)
2002 (North?)
2001 (East?)
2000, 348, Carver, MA (East instead of South?)


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## ArchUSA (Mar 12, 2003)

Bob,

My mistake, my mistake - The 20th JOAD Championship was the 2001 event, not 2000. I realized that when i saw your post.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Hold the phone, this just in:*

JOAD National Outdoor Championship Statistics
Year, Number of archers, Location
2007 180, Chula Vista CA (West)
2006 229, Cincinnati, Ohio (North)
2005 217, Orlando FL (South instead of East)
2004, 264, Conyers Georgia (South)
2003 278, Denver, Colorado (West)
2002 297, Cincinnati, Ohio (North)
2001 302, Carver, MA (East)
2000, 241, Atlanta Georgia (South)
1999, 205
1998, 194
1997, 218
1998, 130
(Information provided by Steven Cornell)

Some figures are different than previously posted, These are all Steves numbers to maintain consistancy.


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

1999 would have been Park City, Utah, Lindsey's first national event. Lots of fun. I helped paint the lines, and every time I stood up I nearly passed out from the altitude


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

I should have also mentioned that she hadn't been shooting for even a year, and this event "locked" her into the sport permanently, it was so much fun for her. And she hadn't even been taught by her JOAD coach about "anchor"ing so you can imagine what I was doing during scoring   and how little I knew back then about archery. 

That was also where I discovered about the rule allowing an archer's representative when the archer can't get to the target and back each end. This sport is soooooo cool!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> I helped *paint* the lines, and every time I stood up I nearly passed out from the altitude


Ron, you sure it was the altitude? :wink:

John.


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## Steven Cornell (Mar 22, 2003)

*JOAD Committee where are they?*

Well we fininsh up the first day of JOAD Nationals.
It was HOT but there was lots of wind.

But on the schedule there was suppose to be a JOAD Committee Meeting on the field @ 7pm last night.
Someone stated that they may show up tonight at the BBQ.

But so far no one has seen or heard from the JOAD committe at the JOAD Nationals.
So if someone from the committee is reading this board, please give us some insight as to why the committee members are no here at the JOAD Nationals?


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## Landed in AZ (May 11, 2008)

The meeting did go last night. Jane had to step up and direct the meeting because no JOAD Committee members were there. Bob is out of the country so I know why he was not here, but not sure about anyone else. 

The wind today was very tricky. Came at the archers in one direction at the line and was going the opposite direction at the targets. Interesting to say the least.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

USAA JOAD Committee Co Chair, Kevin Eldredge was scheduled to be the committee representative at the meeting in OK City at the 2008 JOAD Nationals Championship.
I don’t know if he was not able to attend or is delayed.
Those that are at the tourney know better than I.

(The Canadian Juniors had a great time here in Venezuela at the 2008 Pan Am Championships. USA JOADs and their families should consider taking part in COPARCO tourneys like this one, Puerto Rico, Mexico and more. They give medals for every distance! The conditions were excellent for high scoring, Brazilian Compound Male (Dos Santos) shot a +1400. Wouldn’t it be nice if Canada Juniors and USAA JOADs began to travel together?)


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Yes it was HOT today. I made Ian drink a bottle of water every time I came down to his side of the line. He ended up tied for second-the boy in front is 50 points ahead-but then again, he is pulling twice as much weight as Ian and the boys in 4 and 5th. Skip Trafford's daughter is leading the Girls Bowman division-with NO SIGHT. She and her older sister did the national anthem on violin. I see some Rhodes Scholar Potential in these two girls-lots of talent. Peter Kelcher shot a strong first day to lead the cadet boys recurve and Huntmaster's daughter Miranda was leading the girls division in that event. THe wind was difficult and none of the junior boys were close to 300-I believe 269 was the highest score.

The field is pretty good and there is plenty of shelter for the archers. The concession stands were a couple hundred yards NE of the field but there were a couple golf carts shuttling peope out for snacks.

The only negative event I heard of involved a boy on the bowman line who was having meltdowns after each of the first 3-4 ends-he finally chucked his optima which violently unstrung on impact. This affected at least 3-4 of the boys trying to shoot at the time. He apparently was warned by the COJ but then the damage was done and his bow was broken so the family packed up and departed. Sadly, he hurt the scores of several competitors.

The barbecue was very good and the turnout was pretty strong. As Steve mentioned, I wondered where our Northern Rep was-I have been to 4-5 JOAD nationals in a row and have yet to see her. As our state rep I find this rather upsetting.

Tomorrow is the short distances and the team events.


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## Archery Mom (Apr 2, 2003)

Well Jim has some good points on the day... Let me give you a few more...
Winds were clocked at 52 mph several times today,the steady wind was 18-22mph.. All of the kids were awesome to withstand these elements. 

Tristen S is in 1st for the Cadet Female Compound, Kailey Johnston is in 3rd for that class.. Samantha Pruitte is in 2nd for Jr female Compound, Aaron Henslin is in 2nd Jr Male Recurve, Garrett Abernethy is in 6th by 1 point in Jr male Compound. JT Edgar is in 2nd in Cub male Compound. 

From what i heard and seen on the fields today ( as a runner) the kids all seem to be having a great time and making new friends and renewing some old friendships.. It's easy to protect the kids from sunburn and dehydration, but there's not much you can do for wind burn. 

The judges are doing a great job, may not agree with everything they say, but they are consistent and thats what counts most and They are a great bunch of judges...

Now as far as the host club....... WHAT AN AWESOME BUNCH OF PEOPLE..... they have truly worked hard and put alot of time and effort into making this a great tournament and they truly given from their hearts and made this an awesome event. Thank you so very much. 

We are looking forward to tomorrow and pray the wind settles down some..

PS.. the Bar b que was great... they know how to make it here.. must have taken some lessons from Georgia....


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

South Texas Perspective
A mild breeze kept the weather a little on the cooler side and made for a quite pleasant day. Humidity was significantly lower than home so no one had to go to the spare shirt for the day.

Seriously, the kids from South Texas are having a great time. We were not well prepared for the tail wind (two weeks ago we had a head wind) and many of our kids struggled. But, they know it blows for everyone. Many have made new friends and are having lots of fun. Hopefully the rain will hold off tomorrow and the wind will lay a little.

Judges and host club are doing a great job.

Oh, and Steve you still can't have my shirt.


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

*Shout Out*

A *SHOUT OUT to AZ archers *at the event... and to some of our incoming ASU archers! Go team!

JR Male Recurve:
Tyler Hoge
Greg Begenyi
Tony Don

JR Female Compound:
Mackenzie Kieborz

Cadet Female Recurve:
Kiley Larrick
Ashley Carmichael

Cub Male Recurve:
Nathan Yamaguchi

Bowman Female Recurve:
Karissa Yamaguchi

Bowman Female Comound:
Skyler Van Patter

Bowman Male Compound:
Colt Van Patter

*This is an amazing group of young archers!* I'm glad I don't have to shoot against them (especially Karissa, who beats me on a regular basis out at Papago).

I told you guys it would be windy. Woo-Hoo.

Kari.


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## Steven Cornell (Mar 22, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> USAA JOAD Committee Co Chair, Kevin Eldredge was scheduled to be the committee representative at the meeting in OK City at the 2008 JOAD Nationals Championship.


So only one person from the committee. That is just not right.
Where are the other members? Where is the Director?


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## coach1 (Apr 14, 2003)

*Pictures - Day 1*

Pictures from Day 1 are posted.

Follow the archery photo album link from the front page of the USA Archery Website. www.usarchery.org

Also available at www.dolphin-sys.com (JAVA required)

Leader boards at the end of each distances are included. 

Enjoy,

Gary


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

sundevilarchery said:


> A *SHOUT OUT to AZ archers *at the event... and to some of our incoming ASU archers! Go team!
> 
> JR Male Recurve:
> Tyler Hoge
> ...


Now Now Tyler's still my kid until September:wink:
but he is having a good time and had a decent day


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Jim C said:


> Now Now Tyler's still my kid until September:wink:
> but he is having a good time and had a decent day


He is... and this is a good discussion point.

Tyler, like many others who move from JOAD to CAP, will always be one your kids. I know that often private coaches and parents worry about moves to another area and another "coach." Let me take this opportunity to try to comment and calm some of those fears.

Private coaches are a big part of college archery and I don't think there is any CAP "team leader" or coach who would ever diminish those base relationships. In fact, I think most, if not all of the CAP folks, encourage those relationships to continue in any and every capacity if possible... including one of coach/athlete if that what the archer needs and wants (unless or until that relationship interferes with the team program... there are a few limits, just like if the kid were a part of a college baseball or tennis team).

A coach is not only a technician, but also a person who the archer trusts with their future and emotions. So frequently, at least here at ASU and I imagine at every college program, if I know that someone has a private coach outside of the program, you will hear the phrase "tell me what your coach is working on with with you..." and then we work to reinforce those principles at team practices and events. If the kid wants coaching from our end, then we provide it... if they are comfortable with the old coach, then we support that. 

College is a time for information and experience gathering so that an indiividual can grow and expand... that's true with the archery programs as well. 

So, to finish up... Jim, Tyler will always be "your kid..." whether he keeps you as a personal coach or moves to the next phase utilizing me (or any of the talented coaches here in AZ... and there are lots) as his personal coach... or any combination thereof. :tongue:


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Good Point K. Tyler has been with us for a year, we expect to see him really improve through college. He had a PB today in tough conditions finishing just below 1100 in very tough wind and heat

Today we just ended. The team round was cancelled halfway through the event due to incoming storms. Sadly, as usual, it took WAY too much time to get this event started. There was some controversy because both Tom B(arker) and I as well as others read the entry form as having two events-A cub/bowman event at 50M and a cadet/Junior event at 70M only to find that there was a separate cadet team-but since the event didn't finish it is a moot point. I believe the two junior girls events might have finished though


Ohio had a good showing even without the strong cub recurve crew from Cleveland. Former National Champion Matt Cleland's 15 year old nephew Ben moved up to Junior and at least unofficially won the Junior Compound (the FITA awards were postponed due to the approaching storm). In the Bowman recurve even, my son Ian held second place all today-he never could catch the much stronger New Jersey boy who won easily. Michael Comer of the ACE archers in Columbus went from 5th to third to finish about 30 points behind Ian.

Tomorrow-weather permitting-the OR rounds will take place-recurves in the morning, compounds in the PM

Next year PA first weekend in JULY I believe


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## coach1 (Apr 14, 2003)

*Pictures - Day 2*

Pictures from Day 2 are posted.

Follow the archery photo album link from the front page of the USA Archery Website. www.usarchery.org

Also available at www.dolphin-sys.com (JAVA required)

Leader boards at the end of each distances are included. 

Enjoy,

Gary


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

thanks Gary.

Wish I could be there to see it in person.

Where'd you hide the leaderboard pic's from day 2 ? I don't see them.

John.


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## coach1 (Apr 14, 2003)

*Leaderboards*

Hi John,

I was addressing of a couple of equipment issues with one of my Athletes and I forgot to take them. Then we were chased out by a passing thunderstorm and I didn't get the final leader boards again. 

Hopefully I can take care of that this morning.

Gary


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Thanks for the commentary…



Jim C said:


> …Today we just ended. The team round was cancelled halfway through the event due to incoming storms. Sadly, as usual, it took WAY too much time to get this event started. There was some controversy because both Tom B(arker) and I as well as others read the entry form as having two events-A cub/bowman event at 50M and a cadet/Junior event at 70M only to find that there was a separate cadet team-but since the event didn't finish it is a moot point. I believe the two junior girls events might have finished though…


As far as I can tell, we are the only “group or area of the world” that tries to conduct team rounds on the same day as other competition at major events. Most major international events have a dedicated Team round day. Are “we” willing to add a day to JOAD Nationals for team round competition? I hope the Compound Individual ORs go well this PM.



Jim C said:


> …Next year PA first weekend in JULY I believe…


Was anything officially announced?



Steven Cornell said:


> So only one person from the committee. That is just not right.
> Where are the other members? Where is the Director?


The USAA JOAD Grassroots elected BOD is Denise Parker continuing to prepare for the 2009 Youth games in Ogden UT.
The JOAD Committee had four regional reps, a Paralympics rep, and two co chairs before the new bylaws. The current bylaws indicate that committees are to have up to five members only so they are Eva F, Cindy B, Randi S, Kevin E and Bob P. (You can get a list of the committee members from www.usaarcheryjoad.org including the west and south regional Joad reps event though they are no longer active committee members)
USA Archery JOAD needs are volunteers that would like to help the JOAD community by serving as JOAD committee members and leaders. Anyone interested should contact USAA CEO Brad Camp [email protected] and let him know you would like to serve. I personally suggest that a JOAD committee volunteer go in knowing that committee work will require proactive communication, be time consuming and focused on the future of USAA youth archery. (It would be nice of a JOAD committee candidate read the proposed JOAD Strategic Plan posted on the www.usaarcheryjoad.org website) 



Jim C said:


> …The only negative event I heard of involved a boy on the bowman line who was having meltdowns after each of the first 3-4 ends-he finally chucked his optima which violently unstrung on impact. This affected at least 3-4 of the boys trying to shoot at the time. He apparently was warned by the COJ but then the damage was done and his bow was broken so the family packed up and departed. Sadly, he hurt the scores of several competitors…..


Is JOAD grows, there will be more and more instances of a wide variety of behaviors taking part in JOAD. Thinking out loud and not being there… I wonder if after such an circumstance, the tournament could bring the remaining category competitors together and take a moment to discuss “just what happened”. I think such a session could be a great teaching opportunity. 

What if the categories effected decided to “not count” the points of the effected end for the effected Bowman JOAD National Championship category. (Bowman is not a STAR FITA category after all) I know that is a lot to ask for a Bowman aged child to consider, but with some guidance, something good could happen. 

At the World Cup in Turkey a "second" gold medal were awarded when a jury reversed a judges ruling. Another example is Dave Cousins who tossed an arrow across the three meter line to score a zero for that arrow when his OR competitor could not get a shot off during alternating shooting. Many have seen such acts of sportsmanship. Talk about character building! What is the right thing to do? 

Stay cool…


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## gaarcher31 (Apr 15, 2006)

Archery mom .. How is the Georgia gang doing????


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Reminder*

Here is the link to the tournament website:
http://www.okchampionarchery.org/


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Bob,
The link to the site works, but the results and pictures are not available on the site.


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## gaarcher31 (Apr 15, 2006)

The website you gave is great if you want to see the list of archers...
other then that you can not pull up any standings it tells you the web page dose not work..thanks for the help ... I hope archery mom posts soon I leave to go back to work tommrow and I will be out of the loop for 8 days and we have a great group of kids working realy hard to make it on the jr world team..


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Just returned from OK City. I witnessed a rather disturbing sight at the Greater Cincinnati Airport-as I and several of my archers (The McLaughlin Twins, Chelsea Obrebski and my son) were taking the shuttle bus from the COMAIR terminal to the main terminal we saw an SKB bowcase (the smaller smooth sided version) FALL OUT of a van on the pavement. It wasn't my son's but it might have been another JOAD archer's who was on the same flight with us. I reported that to the Delta Baggage rep-and they didn't seem to be concerned at all. If someone lost a SKB in Cincinnati, contact me if you need a witness statement-the case had a BCY sticker on it (the round target sticker and several others-most of my archers and several parents witnessed this)


THE GOOD

The field was decent, the matts only had a couple incidents of pass through, the stands were solid, the shooting positions well marked, and there were enough porta-potties. The parking was close-almost as good as Chula-far far better than that half mile trek we had at Orlando

Jane Johnson was her usual helpful ultra-friendly self and the judges were helpful and respectful-which I have always found to be the case at JOAD. The scoreboard management was better than some of the nationals I have been to and seem to be fairly up-to-date.

Many of the parents pitched in to help-Tom Barker found a solution to my one compound shooter's equipment issue for example. Of Course Tom is pretty much known as a go-to guy when something needs fixing. I also saw far far better sportsmanship at this JOAD tournament versus some of the pack mentality that was exhibited during the OR rounds last year. My least experienced archer knocked off my top kid and then took out the #3 and then lost to the eventual winner and then ended up in the bronze medal match against a dream teamer and the sportsmanship was perfect. I also note the father of the boy who won that event (boy's cadet recurve) was a picture perfect example of a classy archery parent.

I also have to commend Helen Sahi of Conn. who went out of her way to help one of my kids and CJO much appreciates that.

The Bad

It took WAY too much time in the team events leading to a cancellation-after a bunch of us contributed 500 dollars to make this a free event. The tournament committee was unclear in how the teams were to be formulated-the entry form-at least To Tom Barker and me-suggested that CADETS and JUNIORS would be in ONE event together and after forming teams well before the tournament, we found out that there was a separate cadet event. 

SUGGESTION -close team entries FRIDAY night-use the first day scores to SEED the teams so by the time the fourth distance is finished, the team event is ready to go-at least 2 hours were wasted (two hours of decent weather) which would have allowed this event to be completed.

-The target my son was on had three archers. ONe was a deaf boy who recently came to this country and whose ability to understand the arrow value calls of my son-or the other boy-was almost non-existent. First a guardian and then a volunteer tried to interpret but this did not continue. The judges were told constantly of this problem and it never was resolved. My wife and another parent tried to help only to be told not to go out to the target (even though the two boys in question were in a tight battle for second-first place was way beyond reach). This meant that those three archers spent and additional 3-6 minutes out in the hot sun each round holding up the entire line. Why a judge or a volunteer could not have been tasked with scoring was beyond comprehension to the entire bowmen line.

When we ran JOAD nationals-in both 02 and 06 we were specifically told we had to provide Plaques to the three placing archers in the championship events (ie the FITA round for Bowmen and the OR rounds for the others). We did and that cost our club several hundred dollars. This time the winners got what are basically 2 dollar medals. For what is supposed to be the premier NAA junior tournament for the year that is pretty weak. Lloyd did neat surfboards for the champions and for the team members. We couild have saved our club lots of money both years so I wonder if this again is due to a lack of leadership from the apparently non-existent JOAD board but I know well what Steve, LIz and I were told by the committee in both of those years and that was we had to buy substantial awards for the competitors. 

UGLY

Nothing really bad to report though I have serious problems with allowing foreign competitors to play in the OR round. Saying that JR USAT ranking would be based on placements after removing the foreign competitors results is a joke especially to someone knocked out early. The obvious solution-to the 15 or so coaches I discussed this with-was to allow the visitors to shoot the FITA but not the OR 

And of course the fact that NONE of the JOAD board was to be seen (at least by most of us-maybe someone was there but I sure didn't see them) is beyond pathetic. With no board members, Jane and Gary really could not address what many of us voiced as problems-such as foreigners in the OR. I have been to 5 of the last 7 JOAD shoots and every one since being elected/appointed an officer of the FITA Archers of Ohio and we have had one complete cycle (all four regions) where the Northern Rep has been absent. Its time for the BOARD to boot people who are not doing their jobs and find someone who is willing to do that.


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## Archery Mom (Apr 2, 2003)

The Georgia Gang did Great.. We are riding home now (well halfway anyway..lol) 

Georgia had 7 archers here and of the 7 5 placed in the top 3 and and additional in the top 5 in the FITA.

Samantha Pruitte Jr Female Compound took 2nd
Kailey Johnston Cadet Female Compound took 3rd
Aaron Henslin Jr Male Recurve took 2nd
Cara Henslin Cub Female Recurve 2nd place
JT Edgar took 3rd (only by 10's) Cub Male Compound
Garrett Abernethy took 5th in Jr Male Compound
and Chris Lumans came in 7th at his very first National shoot.. 

On the OR Rounds the kids did awesome again...

Samantha Pruitte took the Bronze 
Kailey Johnston took the Silver
Cara Henslin Took the Gold
Aaron Henslin took the silver
JT Edgar took the gold ( and we hope made his flight home..lol)
Garrett Abernethy took 5th place
Chris Lumans made it through 2 rounds and almost took out the top seated archer, it was very exciting to watch. 

The day was very very long, started an hour late this morning for recurves and then before compounds were allowed to shoot, all awards were issued including the Recurve OR awards so they were over two hours late starting. All in all it was a great shoot, the host club did an amazing job hosting their first national event. I just hope that everyone steps back and remembers that without people willing to "try" and host a tournament we will run out of venues very quickly. When's the last time you volunteered at a tournament you didnt host or when was the last time you personaly went and told the host club thank you for their efforts even if they were not perfect. I have a few issues that need attention, but they were not with the host club, so they will not be addressed with them, they will be addressed with the chairman of judges. 

Hope everyone has a safe trip home and that the kids had a great weekend.

One last thought ( well maybe..lol) I wonder when some of the parents and coaches forgot the JOAD is for the kids.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

The delay you speak of came from the fact that there was some problem with the PA system. I don't believe the practice for the recurve archers started until close to 9-which was about the time that the PA system finally was operational. It was not from a lack of trying on the COJ and others part though.

The awards were done between the events because most of the recurve archers had planes to catch and due to the PA problems, doing them before the OR recurve rounds started would have been problematic. As you know the impending electrical storms saturday PM cancelled the team events as well as the awards.

I feel especially sorry for Manning's very strong cub lady team that was a clear favorite to win that event.


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## Poolgy (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks Michelle for the updates. I have been on the phone with J. T.'s dad for most of the tournament. I wish I could have been able to make it! This was JT's first big tournament except for the indoor which is done in region's. He called me again today when they made it to the airport (with very little time left!) to tell me the final OR results. He was very very excited and we are very proud of him and his parents who were willing to risk missing their plane to let him finish the OR. They checked on a later flight and it would have cost several hundred dollars and another day to get home. They still took the risk and showed tremendous support for their son. 

Our congrats go out to everyone from GA for the great represetation!


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## TomB (Jan 28, 2003)

I agree with many of Jim's points. The OR with the non USA residents was problematic. I think ultimately this OR round will have to be not counted for USAT rankings because of the distortions in the seeding bracket and won-loss rankings. You simply cannot just pull them out of the finish and re-rank. One of my kids I coach was presented a bronze medal even though she lost the match to one of the foreign kids. Even though it was presented in the registration this way, the inclusion of the foreign kids in the OR should have been corrected on the field before the matches started. It is more important to admit a mistake had been made and correct it than to go with the flow just because the registration material said it would be that way.

I also didn't agree with the team round. I understand the combination of cubs and bowman and cadets and juniors in the event there are not enough teams. But to make the bowman (especially recurve bowman) have to compete at 50 meters was untenable. I really didn't understand why the separation of juniors and cadets was done when in the registration it said they would be combined, but we couldn't break out the bowman and cubs. Mine and many others suggestion was to have the combined bowman and cubs shoot at 30 meters since they all had sight setting for that distance. The objective of the team round (that many of us ponied up dollars for) was to get more experience for American kids in shooting the team round. I lost 6 bowman when the decision was upheld to shoot at 50 meters. I think a simple question of asking for unanimous consent to shoot at 30 meters for cubs and bowmen would have solved the problem. The weather cost us the finish to the matches and was out of anyones control. The two hour wait for team is a problem. It is always very difficult to get team done during the longest day of the tournament. We also have pretty good odds of weather or darkness getting the team round. Everyone is already tired and ready to go and now we do team. After the long distances would be better but then what do you rank them with? I am not in favor of lottery teams. Maybe we should add a day for team or do team on practice day with a two ends of practice, then everyone shoots team cutting the number of teams in half each round until we have a winner.

The crew in Oklahoma did a great job with the resources they had at their disposal. But, ultimately they were understaffed and needed more help. Many of the parents jumped in to do what they could to help set up targets, move targets, handle leader boards, etc. JOAD nationals really needs an event manager and staff to help with the learning curve of running a JOAD nationals. The event manager can provide valuable expertise such as running the event, managing team, OR brackets, and countless land mine avoidance (like byes in the 1/16th round when there are no matches in the 1/16th round and kids are still shooting for practice when they should be scoring. This has happened two years in a row.) The event manager needs to have certain resources available in a trailer, like clocks, flags, target numbers, flip score charts, clipboards, distance markers, computers and software for score sorting and bracket production. Otherwise every year a new crew of folks has a steep learning curve to repeat a lot of the same problems the last crew faced. They also incur great costs on items they likely will not use again.

A couple of really good things the host club did was the "give aways" to the kids in the registration packets. I also thought a splendid idea to "presell" the used target matts to JOAD clubs around the country. Texas took advantage of the this opportunity last February when the host club needed the working capital.

I had a great concern about shooting in the south this time of the year. Heat related illness can be dangerous. Most of the kids seemed to be doing ok (not great but ok) with the heat. The breeze and cloud cover helped a lot. It could have been much worse.

Like Jim, I was impressed with the improved sportsmanship of the kids and parents. I really think that aspect was the best I have seen in the 10 JOAD nationals I have attended. I saw some of the best head to head matches in a long time with many one arrow shoot-offs. One of my JOAD's got beat (he didn't loose) in a three arrow shoot off with both kids hammering 10's and only a "spider" by the other kid decided the match. Almost universally the comments were positive and respectful among the archers and parents.

I know the OKC crew and judges will debrief and make suggestions for improvements. We just need some institutional knowledge database so that every year it gets better and not repeat some of the same issues of the past.


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## Archery Mom (Apr 2, 2003)

Jim C said:


> The delay you speak of came from the fact that there was some problem with the PA system. I don't believe the practice for the recurve archers started until close to 9-which was about the time that the PA system finally was operational. It was not from a lack of trying on the COJ and others part though.
> 
> 
> Jim This is very true and some things are hard to deal with.
> ...


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

TomB said:


> It is more important to admit a mistake had been made and correct it than to go with the flow just because the registration material said it would be that way.


We were told that the didn't have the authority to change it on the spot and that it had to go before the board.

-Andrew


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## sundevilarchery (May 27, 2005)

Just as a heads up... for Sr USAT events where non-US archers are present (like Gold Cup, AZ Cup, and Texas), they DO shoot the ORs (knocking people out), and then the rankings are adjusted after you pull those final placements... like you guys are talking about for the Jr event... so this is not something new or unique. Though, I agree, it is a bummer.


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*Thanks to OKC*

Just a quick word of thanks to the Oklahoma Championship Archery Club! You all did a bang up job with JOAD Nationals! Thanks for all your hard work.
I can appreciate all your efforts! Running one of these is NOT easy!

Jane you are a doll! Always checked in on me, as I found out the day before we came to OKC that I broke my foot & was actually not supposed to walk on it too much! Thanks Jane!

Judges were fair to all, although, one thought...if you happen to have a bowman situation as there was on target 7 (3 archers, 2 capable and one brand new to the english language & hearing diabled) the tournament committee should make every effort to have 4 archers on such a bale, and if they cannot, then have a volunteer specifically designated to that target to do the scoring, so the kids aren't out in the sweltering heat for all those extra minutes. Also, If you happen to have a kid throwing a hissy fit screaming as he shoots each arrow "I CAN'T DO THIS" immediately remove that child, Do NOT pass Go, Do NOT collect $200! This kind of behavior should not occur. It was HIGHLY disruptive and effected ALL the archers on the bowman line and I'd imagine some others as well. It went on far to long. As JimC said the kid resolved it by throwing his bow down and breaking his equipment...thank goodness nobody got hurt by this kid's reaction.

Just a word to Dave Anderson, your son is fabulous and I look forward to see him improve and gain more confidence, and best with his chochlear implant! Brighten is a neat kid, and has been through more than we all can imagine! God Bless you for doing His work!

Thanks again Oklahoma Championship Archers! You've a fabulous group and ran a good tourney!

Congrats to all the shooters! You all shot well given the "gentle breezes" you all had to deal with :tongue:


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Archery Mom said:


> Jim C said:
> 
> 
> > The delay you speak of came from the fact that there was some problem with the PA system. I don't believe the practice for the recurve archers started until close to 9-which was about the time that the PA system finally was operational. It was not from a lack of trying on the COJ and others part though.
> ...


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

sundevilarchery said:


> Just as a heads up... for Sr USAT events where non-US archers are present (like Gold Cup, AZ Cup, and Texas), they DO shoot the ORs (knocking people out), and then the rankings are adjusted after you pull those final placements... like you guys are talking about for the Jr event... so this is not something new or unique. Though, I agree, it is a bummer.


This is something that the membership or the board needs to address. Nothing is written that requires their participation in what is supposed to be the Junior National Championships. If I ran things I would close the OR to our archers-our nationals has a separate OR round that is not used for USAT rankings and it is the double FITA. Since it is as you say a bummer lets end the bummer. Sadly, when no board members are there I think the tournament staff is at loss to make a decision.

I also think we need some consistency to the rules-many of us remember what happened when JR USAT rankings were based purely on the OR in 02 (a decision that the board imposed on us) and one archer sat out a long hot day and did not shoot the long distances only to enter the OR round and make a mockery of the seedings (leading to two girls quitting archery for good as a result of this nonsense)-rather than constantly changing things

if the OR round picks our national junior champions then close it to US citizens pure and simple.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

spangler said:


> We were told that the didn't have the authority to change it on the spot and that it had to go before the board.
> 
> -Andrew


I heard the same thing


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Here is a draft guide I was asked to put together on how to host a JOAD Nationals:
http://www.azjoad.com/main/forms/JOAD_National_Hosting_05Jun2008_Draft.pdf


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

*Decisons*

Here is a link to the USAA Bylaws
http://www.usarchery.org/userfiles/file/USAA_Bylaws_7-26-07.pdf 
Page 11, Section 7.2 address the duties of the Board of Directors.
I like the structure as it does not rely on those elected based on name recognition to make detailed administrative decisions.
Instead the BOD hires professional staff to execute the boards vision. 
The CEO is the key.
The CEO makes decision or empowers other to make decisions.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

The team rounds would have ample time if they were held on a dedicated team round day.

The individual ORs could all begin in the AM with a typical number of tournament targets if there were only 60M Cadets and 70M Juniors and no 50M Cubs. 
(The only other way is to have many more targets and perhaps a second field or a very experienced tournament director)

The youth archery development, JOAD community should discuss the purpose and goal of the JOAD National Championship, Jr. USAT and International competition and then communicated and understood by all.


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## david & sons (Apr 18, 2003)

"The target my son was on had three archers. ONe was a deaf boy who recently came to this country and whose ability to understand the arrow value calls of my son-or the other boy-was almost non-existent. First a guardian and then a volunteer tried to interpret but this did not continue. The judges were told constantly of this problem and it never was resolved. My wife and another parent tried to help only to be told not to go out to the target (even though the two boys in question were in a tight battle for second-first place was way beyond reach). This meant that those three archers spent and additional 3-6 minutes out in the hot sun each round holding up the entire line. Why a judge or a volunteer could not have been tasked with scoring was beyond comprehension to the entire bowmen line."

With all due respect Jim, I think it would be most appropriate to find another source for the "problem" that was happening on that target. I can thoroughly assure you the deaf child child had no problem understanding arrow value. Nor did he have any problem understanding the interpreter( his guardian) when the proper information was given to him ONE time. Not over and over due to the target captain mumbling or changing the arrow values. The deaf child as well as the other young man on the target were most definitely struggling with adding the numbers up even though they both had calculators.I guess that makes the "blame" somewhat evenly dispursed doesn't it?
Having said that, I find it interesting that you come on here and blame the deaf child but not once did you offer to voice your concerns with the deaf childs parent when all this was going on. It's also interesting that what was conveyed by the judge to the deaf child's parent didn't have a thing to do with timeliness. The only thing that was said was that a "parent" was not happy that the deaf childs father was interpreting for him. hmmm. Wonder who that was? The judge wanted to ask an unsuspecting lady( she knew ASL) who was there with kids of her own, to interpret in place of the father. She had no idea she was about to be asked to spend the rest of the tournament interpreting for a child she didn't know. By the way, It was me that came up with the solution. It worked out great and allowed me to spend time with some of my other archers.
I do agree that it would have been much more timely to have a volunteer assist with the scoring. 
On a very positive note, Micheal and Ian(I hope I'm spelling that right) were two very good archers as well as very enjoyable boys to be around. Perhaps our efforts would be better spent teaching them to call arrows properly as well as learn to add numbers horizontally in a more expedient manner.
I think rather than let any more arrows fly on here, it would be better if we took this up in PMs, email or a phone call. I am actually very open minded and certainly appreciate the opportunity to make this sport better for the kids.


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## david & sons (Apr 18, 2003)

I'm sorry Jim. In case I wasn't clear, I'm the father of the deaf child (not just the guardian). My wife and I adopted him in June of 2007. I know I don't post on here much, but I bet with a little effort, you can find out all about me through Tom Barker, Bill Coady, Frank Thomas or any other Texas coach.You might even ask Kisik Lee about me. I'll bet you'll be surprised.
If you or anybody else want accurate information about my son this link is pretty informative.
http://a-son-in-our-hearts.blogspot.com/
By the way, his name is Brighton Sheng Anderson. He's the one that placed 
5th in the 2008 JOAD indoor nationals. There were no scoring delays either.


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Jim C said:


> UGLY
> 
> Nothing really bad to report though I have serious problems with allowing foreign competitors to play in the OR round.


Unfortuantely, there was some ugly. The next part of my post will set the stage, but a parrent blew up at an archer, which is uncalled for. I will mention no names, but those involved will know who.....I only saw the end of it, and the kid blew back up. Just let me say that if it were my daughter, the parrent would have had me between them. It's a shame, and totally uncalled for. Disgusting

It should be noted that the girls all had fun, and should be commended for their efforts!



TomB said:


> I really didn't understand why the separation of juniors and cadets was done when in the registration it said they would be combined, but we couldn't break out the bowman and cubs.


The JR and Cadet Female classes were, in the end, not seperated. One of the Girls Cadet teams was expecting a 70M team round. Considering there were only two Cadet Female Recurve teams, they asked the judges if they could be allowed to continue as originally planned and compete with the Juniors. They were told as long as the other team didn't mind, it would be allowed. There were no objections by the shooters of the other team, and they moved the bales on an officials OK. BOTH Cadet teams had fun while it lasted, even with a few misses on both teams.

Since this was an event to get all involved possible, hopefully it will be considered next time.......as a parrent of a one time bowman, they are sometimes hard pressed to reach 30, much less 50 meters.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

How many teams were there?
Was anyone turned way from competing in the team round because they didnt have a team?


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## Huntmaster (Jan 30, 2003)

Serious Fun said:


> How many teams were there?
> Was anyone turned way from competing in the team round because they didnt have a team?


I'm not sure if any were turned away, but they were announcing over the PA a need for teams, and later a need for another archer to complete a team. If there were, it was due to incomplete teams I would guess, and not from the lack of effort.


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## Josh'sMama (Mar 27, 2005)

Dear Mr. C,

I think my husband was more than gracious with his reply to your post about my son. I will not be as gracious. This mama is more than a bit hot under the collar right now! 

For starters, we are not the deaf boys "guardians." We are his mama and daddy. Our son was abandoned at an early age and beaten and starved for most of his life. He is just starting to realize that there are kind people in the world who love him and want what's best for him. He hasn't been afforded the luxuries that most kids in this country have handed to them on a daily basis. 

Our son understands arrow values just fine! He's been doing this for a year now and has never had a problem. (and none of the other parents have had a problem with our son competing with their children) My son was on the A honor roll in his 4th grade class at school all year and has no mental deficits.

I'm outraged with your insinuation that my child is unitelligent! My son was born deaf, not stupid. He speaks another language, ASL. My son is also losing his sight and will be blind in the future. We are trying very hard to help him participate in all the things he would love to try before his sight goes. I will NOT stand by and allow anyone to treat my child as if he were less than human because he can't hear. 

It's shocks me to think that you are actually a JOAD coach and that you could come on here and insinuate such things about ANY child! If you were assisting my husband coach his JOAD club, he would probably ask you to leave after posting such insinuations about another child on a forum such as this. 

This sport is supposed to be fun for the children. We try very hard to teach the children in our club patience and sportsmanship. We've always gotten so many complements on how well behaved and polite our kids are to the other kids wherever we go. Most of the families we meet are very kind-hearted and would do anything for any child from any other club. We've shared equipment with children from other clubs when theirs malfunctioned so that they will not miss out on participating to the end of a tournament. This sport is not a greedy, win at all cost sport. No parent should ever be harrassing other parents or causing unnecessary friction at a tournament. 

I better stop here before I end up on my knees all night asking for forgiveness for unkind words. Just know this; if I meet your child at a tournament and he has a problem or his equipment breaks, I will bend over backwards for your child and do whatever I can to help him (whether or not you would afford my child the same courtesy).

Very poorly done Mr. C...Very poorly done indeed!

Mrs Tina Anderson


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## genesis21_20 (Jun 5, 2008)

After reading your post you sound like your quite the whiner Jim C. I can't believe anyone would have the audacity to complain about a handicapped child in ANY sport, nonetheless this one. I have seen and heard of many "bad" incidents in archery over the years, some of which really ticked me off but a parent, a joad COACH, complaining about a deaf boy taking too long scoring? It just so happens I know that young boy and his FATHER not guardian and they can both sign very well, how much do you know? Apparently not enough to understand it is easily slowed down by whoever is being translated, in this case the boy calling the arrows. I also know that Brightons ability to score an arrow is very much existant i've seen him score many times at practice and tournaments and does a fine job. Perhaps at the next tourny you see Brighton in, YOU can try translating for him, or hire an interpretor so the shoot can run as smoothly as you would prefer. To anyone else reading this post I apologize for being somewhat rude on here I know we try to keep this a clean friendly site.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

david & sons said:


> I'm sorry Jim. In case I wasn't clear, I'm the father of the deaf child (not just the guardian). My wife and I adopted him in June of 2007. I know I don't post on here much, but I bet with a little effort, you can find out all about me through Tom Barker, Bill Coady, Frank Thomas or any other Texas coach.You might even ask Kisik Lee about me. I'll bet you'll be surprised.
> If you or anybody else want accurate information about my son this link is pretty informative.
> http://a-son-in-our-hearts.blogspot.com/
> By the way, his name is Brighton Sheng Anderson. He's the one that placed
> 5th in the 2008 JOAD indoor nationals. There were no scoring delays either.


Being an attorney, the term guardian I knew to be correct rather than assuming "parent". I did not blame your son in any way. The problem was-and the other boy's father agrees with me-was that the target in question was always the last back and that should have -after dozens of requests by my wife and others to the COJ , relevant judge etc-ALERTED the officials that something had to be DONE to alleviate the issue.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

genesis21_20 said:


> After reading your post you sound like your quite the whiner Jim C. I can't believe anyone would have the audacity to complain about a handicapped child in ANY sport, nonetheless this one. I have seen and heard of many "bad" incidents in archery over the years, some of which really ticked me off but a parent, a joad COACH, complaining about a deaf boy taking too long scoring? It just so happens I know that young boy and his FATHER not guardian and they can both sign very well, how much do you know? Apparently not enough to understand it is easily slowed down by whoever is being translated, in this case the boy calling the arrows. I also know that Brightons ability to score an arrow is very much existant i've seen him score many times at practice and tournaments and does a fine job. Perhaps at the next tourny you see Brighton in, YOU can try translating for him, or hire an interpretor so the shoot can run as smoothly as you would prefer. To anyone else reading this post I apologize for being somewhat rude on here I know we try to keep this a clean friendly site.



I figured there would be some moron who would not read what I wrote and make some sort of stupid comment after not READING what was written. I guess you weren't around on Thursday when I spent at least three hours helping stake and tie down every target or during the various changes of distances when I was volunteering to move targets while other parents were eating lunch. I guess you missed the hours I spent looking for lost arrows at this tournament or the other JOAD tournaments I have attended. So as far as I am concerned, when you have done as much for these tournaments as I have then you can whine about me-until then I just ignore you. My goal is to try to inform people for future tournaments about stuff I saw that needs to be dealt with in a more pro-active manner

I wonder why so many people are unable to read. The problem was not the young man in question. I never blamed him for not trying his best. His disability is not his fault and it is great that he is a good competitor. The problem was obvious to anyone who was on that line-that target #7 was in the 36 ends scored, the last back on at least 30 ends. That should have clued in someone in charge that something was needed to alleviate that problem. When Mike Comer's father and my wife tried to help, they were told that "was improper". Why didn't you step up and try to help?

Were you even at the tournament? I see from your profile you have no information whatsoever about yourself.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Josh'sMama said:


> Dear Mr. C,
> 
> I think my husband was more than gracious with his reply to your post about my son. I will not be as gracious. This mama is more than a bit hot under the collar right now!
> 
> ...


Find a post where I said your child was unintelligent. That there were communication problems with a 12 year old and a ten year old and your son is not from a lack of intelligence. The two other boys, were doing their best as was your son but the two other boys are just kids and unlike you or me or your husband, less able to handle what was for both of them a new situation held in a very hot and tiring environment. If you all would take a deep breath and read what I actually wrote, you will find my issues were with the fact that a clear problem existed and the management of the tournament did not alleviate the problem. And you clearly have no clue about me or my reputation in this sport and you might ask some of the parents who attended the 06 JOAD nationals before you start spouting off crap about my intent. 

And by the way, if my son was not on that target I would have stepped up and volunteered to do what ever was possible to help the situation so as to protect the interests of the archers in question. It was not good for your son, my son or Mike Comer (who being an Ohio archer is one of my charges as the ohio JOAD coordinator) to spend more time out in that hot sun than all the other kids.


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*OKC JOAD NATIONALS: Target 7*

OK EVERYONE!
STOP THIS INSANITY!
I am Ian's mom Liz Coombe.
I am getting VERY UPSET  at all this squabbling about a situation that is quite frankly being blown out of proportion!
Let me say that all three of the kids did their absolute BEST! Brighton did an awesome job scoring the numbers he was called and as interpreted by his Dad to him and then the lady from Ohio, then the gentleman who also helped by writing the numbers so they could be transfered to Brighton's and Michael's scorecards! The math skills on the bowman side always suffer as they are really still learning the skills we adults take for granted!
About all the negativity...I'm sorry, but don't we all want the best for our kids? I am certain JimC, along with all the competitors wanted to get on with the show! And, God Bless, those kids on target 7, they probably wanted out of the blazing sun!!
Let's let this rest, and not continue on about it! Feelings have been hurt, it is obvious! Mine have been hurt too! BUT WE are the adults here! Might I suggest that if we are faced with a similar situation that we ask the tournament director and judges for guidance and assistance! 
Please let us forgive the comments and revel in what a great accomplishment all the kids did in that wind and heat!
Congratulations to all the archers.
God Bless the Andersons, Comers and Coombes whose children all grew a great deal this weekend at JOAD Nationals!
God Bless Brighton, Michael and Ian!
lain:
Liz Coombe


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## baylward (Aug 18, 2003)

Josh'sMama said:


> Dear Mr. C,
> 
> I think my husband was more than gracious with his reply to your post about my son. I will not be as gracious. This mama is more than a bit hot under the collar right now!
> 
> ...


I was not at the JOAD nationals but have worked with both Jim & Liz Coombe thru Cincinnati JOAD. Jim & Liz do everything they can do help the kids in are club and the clubs around the Tri-State area. I fine it hard that Jim would ever call a kid "untelligent". Jim & Liz have done alot to grow the sport of archery in this country. I think what has happened is just people read what they want to see and not reading the whole post. 

Brandon Aylward


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## Dadpays (Oct 11, 2006)

*Nationals*

Thanks to all who helped put on a great tournament - both those directly involved and those who volunteered at the last minute to help get things in order. My son and I had a great time meeting a lot of very nice folks.

Obviously, all the "action" was down on the male bowman end of the shooting line. As far as the "meltdown" that JimC commented on, I believe it started after the second end (12 arrows into the tournament) and culminated around the fourth end with the bow flinging incident. Since I was set up next to them, I witnessed the entire incident in “full color” which included a trashing of nearly every archery related article under the canopy. However, I am not sure whose actions were worse, the kid’s or his dad’s when he yelled “I didn’t want to be here in the first place”. To say I was shocked would be and understatement – I guess some aren’t cut out for competition under less than ideal conditions. It was shameful and I felt sorry for the mom.

As far as the kids on target #7 being that much slower was concerned, to be honest, I never noticed, nor did I hear any of the other kids/parents complain. My son was on target #4. My take on the situation is that some things are out of my control, so I simply deal with it and go on. I’ve known Mr. Anderson for several years through both 4-H and NAA archery and I expect his son and mine will shoot together for a number of years to come. As far as scoring in general, it appears that we ALL, coaches/parents/archers, must be falling short somewhere or else the judges wouldn’t have called a special meeting of all archers on Saturday morning to go over it a SECOND time.

If I get to have one complaint, it would be that the kids shooting on target #1 and #2 got afternoon SHADE from a big tree while the rest of shooting line got none! LOL

As TomB pointed out, there was a nice breeze and while not chilly, it certainly wasn’t hot, come on it was only 95 °F. The Texas kids probably appreciated the drop in temperature and this weekends TSAA event in Austin will be much hotter than OKC conditions – oh joy! 

Anyway, now for the humorous. The following incident happened Saturday afternoon. Again, down on the male bowman end of the line, and was quite humorous to those who witnessed it. Since temps were on the warmish side and because the judges were out in the sun most of the day, a cold treat was offered as a kind gesture. Now these were not your ordinary, run-of-the-mill treats, these were extremely cold Blue Bell bullet popsicles which had been sitting on a bed of dry ice. Throwing caution to the wind (of which there was plenty) and ignoring the warning that the treat was very cold, it seems that one of the judges (which shall remain unknown unless we can identify her) simply unwrapped the gift and immediately placed it into her mouth only to find herself now in the middle of the field with both lips and her tongue stuck securely to the popsicle. Another judge had to come running over to help and after pouring water over her lips and the popsicle she was finally free. I’m sure more of us would have felt sorry for her if we hadn’t been laughing so hard, but I believe all ended well as she was seen later with just the stick poking out of her mouth.


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## Rhinopolis (Jun 22, 2006)

From the perspective at the other end of the field, we never heard of any scoring issues at the boys end. We had a friend and club member on target 5 and they never mentioned anything. I understand the emotions expressed here, but just so you know, it doesn't seem like anyone other than the the immediate parties really noticed. So please do not feel as though the whole field was affected in any way. The time it took to score seemed normal to us.

Tim Payne


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*Popsicle*

Love it! Now that's the kind of stuff that makes me happy!! Not to mention it sounds COOL! :icon_1_lol:


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## Tickbite (Jun 21, 2008)

*Archer was a pleasure*



Josh'sMama said:


> Dear Mr. C,
> 
> I think my husband was more than gracious with his reply to your post about my son. I will not be as gracious. This mama is more than a bit hot under the collar right now!
> 
> ...


We had the pleasure of volunteering for two days to work with the young men on the Bowman & Cub targets. Brighton was a pleasure to deal with and by no means held up scoring the target. We hope to have the opportunity to interact with Brighton again. God Bless.


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## Josh'sMama (Mar 27, 2005)

Liz is right. It helps no one to squabble, and I apologize. My son came home jabbering 90 miles a minute about how much fun he had and how much he liked the boys on his target. He went on and on about Ian and Michael and even remembered how to spell Ian's name. He said that he made two new friends over the weekend. David said both boys were just as sweet as could be and very polite!

Brighton was so excited about the gifts he received at the shoot and couldn't wait to show me how cool they all were. That was a wonderful idea! He was a bit confused as to why his dad couldn't interpret for him as he always has, but overall, even with the high winds, heat and the throwing of the bow incident, he had a fantastic time.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

To those that are trying to figure out what the 2008 JOAD Nationals was like.
From what I can tell, it was typical.
Some things better and not better than others, some items better or not better than before.
It looks like a typical number of teachable moments occurred for archers, parents and by standers.
Maybe a good observation is that “we sure do live in a diverse world”.

JOAD Nationals is all things to all people.
For some it’s a open tourney to give completion a try.
For others it is the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!
For others it’s a part of a Jr USAT and USAA World Team Championship goal.
For some it’s a vacation.
As a result, the perspectives are quite different.
It is difficult to be all things to all people and satisfy everyone.

Just make me king of the world and I will fix everything…


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## david & sons (Apr 18, 2003)

Given how late it was and what was going on, I failed to pay compliments to the folks that hosted the nationals. They did an awsome job. I wonder if we paid all the "volunteers" at one of these events a dollar a mile, how much money they would make over the weekend.They had to have covered several miles each. You would have to have a cow bell to keep up with Tom Barker, Jim C, Jane Johnson Larry Skinner and all the other coaches I don't know by name.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Josh'sMama said:


> Liz is right. It helps no one to squabble, and I apologize. My son came home jabbering 90 miles a minute about how much fun he had and how much he liked the boys on his target. He went on and on about Ian and Michael and even remembered how to spell Ian's name. He said that he made two new friends over the weekend. David said both boys were just as sweet as could be and very polite!
> 
> Brighton was so excited about the gifts he received at the shoot and couldn't wait to show me how cool they all were. That was a wonderful idea! He was a bit confused as to why his dad couldn't interpret for him as he always has, but overall, even with the high winds, heat and the throwing of the bow incident, he had a fantastic time.



Well Ian certainly liked your son and said he hopes to see him next year.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

Some history as I understand it.
Once upon a time, the JOAD champion was determined by the winner of the FITA.
Then the world changed to using the FITA as a qualification round to seed a championship Olympic Round.
USA JOAD reacted by keeping the FITA round as the championship and adding the OR as the USA JOAD Open. The problem was that many of the archers would not show up for the OR as it was meaningless. Yet the archers should take part in OR s if they are to compete internationally.
So USAA JOAD made another modification where by the championship was determined by the FITA but archers must take part in the OR to be eligible for JR USAT. Still many archers would not show up for the OR.
There was a year when international guest archers were only able to compete in the FITA and not the OR. That kept may away for years as it didn’t make economic sense for an international archer to travel many miles and not be able to take part in the OR s.
If memory serves there were a year or so when the JOAD National championship was determined by the average of the FITA ranking and the OR final placement. This too took very careful figuring to avoid an error.
There might be another combination that was tried somewhere in there.
Finally, and for the past few years, the OR has determined the JOAD National Championship for Cub, Cadet and Junior. The idea being that like international competition, anything can happen in the ORs and does. Everyone has a chance which is part of the excitement of FITA OR competition.

What I see today are JOADs beginning very specific and creative in describing their achievement. A JOAD can achieve and claim be:

The JOAD National FITA Champion (FITA)
The JOAD National Champion (OR)
The National Target Championship FITA Champion (NTC Double FITA) 
The National Indoor Champion (NAA Indoor Championship 1200)
The JOAD Nationals Indoor Champion (JOAD Indoor Championship 600)
The National Field Champion (USAA/NAA Field Championship)
Six distinct JOAD national first place achievements. I sort of like spreading the success and achievement around. What I like most is not changing the rules over and over again.

That having been said, I think that Cubs should have an OR round. Youth sports development advisors suggest we focus less on competition and more on form for young developmental archers (see Tom Barker and PLAYS). Note that FITA purposely does not have age 14 and younger competition categories. I think that many JOAD Nationals could start all Cadet and Juniors, Recurve and Compound OR s in the AM if there were no Cub OR s.

Team round need their own day just as the OR s have their own day. If a tournament insisted on being clever, they could conduct the Cadet team rounds the afternoon after the FITA and the Junior team rounds after the morning OR s.

Now if you don’t like the way I think, consider becoming a JOAD Committee member. In fact even if you like the way I think, consider becoming a JOAD Committee member. The JOADs need more volunteerism vs. just criticism.


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*There is peace in the valley*

Thank you everyone!
God works in mysterious ways! Prayer does too!
I could not, not respond earlier today!
We all want the best for the kids! 
That's why we do what we do!
Keep Smiling and remember we are ALL there for the kids!
Thank you everyone!
Liz Coombe :wink:


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> Some history as I understand it.
> Once upon a time, the JOAD champion was determined by the winner of the FITA.
> Then the world changed to using the FITA as a qualification round to seed a championship Olympic Round.
> USA JOAD reacted by keeping the FITA round as the championship and adding the OR as the USA JOAD Open. The problem was that many of the archers would not show up for the OR as it was meaningless. Yet the archers should take part in OR s if they are to compete internationally.
> ...


Interesting

Maybe we should ask this question

should Bowmen be charged the same entry fee as other kids when they only have a shot at one award and do not play in the OR and were effectively (at least for recurves) unable to compete in the team events?

I think having a straight up national championship based on the FITA with the OR factored in for the USAT is the best solution if getting a few foreigners to come is that important.


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## spangler (Feb 2, 2007)

Serious Fun said:


> How many teams were there?
> Was anyone turned way from competing in the team round because they didnt have a team?


Yes. We had a Junior female compounder who signed up on Wed to shoot the team rounds who was turned away because only 8 shooters signed up.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

spangler said:


> Yes. We had a Junior female compounder who signed up on Wed to shoot the team rounds who was turned away because only 8 shooters signed up.


Last year Jon Farr (who won the cub indoor title in 08) was on a team only to be left high and dry when the two boys he was paired with decided to not compete. The same thing happened to my then cub shooter Neel Bekal in 2005 in Orlando.

As I noted I really felt bad for ACE club because one girl-who was a newer shooter and not in contention for individual medals came partly to be the third member of a strong team with her two good friends. 

My former Junior Kelley Smith was on a team that was together for several tournaments (4 guys were part of that team). This team took third in 06 and then beat two dream team groups to win the junior event last year and Kelley said that the team events at JOAD Nationals were among the very top highlights of his JOAD Career (Kelley won at least one indoor and state outdoor title in all four age groups).


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*Thanks!!*



Tickbite said:


> We had the pleasure of volunteering for two days to work with the young men on the Bowman & Cub targets. Brighton was a pleasure to deal with and by no means held up scoring the target. We hope to have the opportunity to interact with Brighton again. God Bless.


Hello "Tickbite!"
Thanks you for all your work this past week at 2008 JOAD Nationals!
I appreciate all your help!

I am Ian Coombe's mom, and I wanted to sedn you a special thanks, as you knew the whole story, as did I.

Our family will not be going to COS Open Nationals, due to a trial my husband has; if you are volunteering out therem then thank you again!!

I hope Cincinnati is going to bid for the 2010 JOAD Nationals!

Until we meet again!

Thanks!
Liz Coombe


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## genesis21_20 (Jun 5, 2008)

I want to openly apologize to everyone and Mr. C for my outburst the other day. My little brother (Brighton) came back home so excited about the whole tournament, as soon as he walked through the door he was pulling out and showing me all the things he brought back and was signing away like crazy trying to tell me all about the shoot, even though he knows I dont know enough signs to know anything he's saying lol! I really wish I could have gone this year it sounds like the tournament went really well and everyone had a good time. Maybe next time!


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

genesis21_20 said:


> I want to openly apologize to everyone and Mr. C for my outburst the other day. My little brother (Brighton) came back home so excited about the whole tournament, as soon as he walked through the door he was pulling out and showing me all the things he brought back and was signing away like crazy trying to tell me all about the shoot, even though he knows I dont know enough signs to know anything he's saying lol! I really wish I could have gone this year it sounds like the tournament went really well and everyone had a good time. Maybe next time!


well I am sorry for the acidic reply I sent to your equally acidic PM to me of 15 minutes ago. I have never had much use for people who have blank profiles and the administrator RecordKeeper knows that has been one of my positions for as long as I have been on this board.


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

How was the BBQ.
Any presentations, music, entertainment?


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

Serious Fun said:


> How was the BBQ.
> Any presentations, music, entertainment?


1) food-excellent-the chicken and the beef were both very good

2) lots of stuff given away-at least 3-4 LAS 50 dollar gift certificates (we won one of them)

Not much else but I thought we got our 45 dollars worth even if we had not won a 50 dollar gift.

it didn't last long but it was very hot so that wasn't a big issue


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## Archery Ang (Apr 24, 2006)

Results are up on the US Archery Website.


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## st8arrow (Apr 25, 2005)

*BBQ Givaways*

I don't want to short change our sponsers. 

There were:

8 $50 Lancaster gift certificates 
5 $20 Chilis giftcards 
2 Custom grips by Jager Archery 
8 sets of custom arrow wraps by Onestringer
3 $100 scrapbooking kits

plus several gift packs donated by Oklahoma City Vistors Bureau

Thanks to all the above, we appreciate your sponsorship


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

*Thanks for clarification!*

Thanks for the clarification on the sponsors!
As we all know sponsors and volunteers make tournaments run smoothly.
So, thanks to the sponsors and ALL the volunteers (those from OKC and those who just stepped up to the plate and did what needed to be done!).
:wink:


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## Serious Fun (May 12, 2003)

An Arizona JOAD family has taken the time to document their impressions and stories about the 2008 JOAD National Championship.
The perspectives from a father, son and daughter are great.
Have a look...there are some pictures too.
http://www.azjoad.com/2008/2008_joad_nationals.htm


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