# 65% letoff for field?



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I still haven't figured out why they make a letoff higher then 65%. :noidea:

I shoot 59.5 lbs with 65% and wouldn't mind shooting less let off:wink:


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

I agree.

I think it depends on how long you hold/aim and how much draw weight you are pulling. 

Most folks have fairly reasonable shot routines, so they aren't holding at full draw for excessive amounts of time on each shot.

But I've shot with some guys that hold/aim for what seems like 5 minutes on each shot! Couple a long hold duration with a high draw wt. and that is a recipe for some serious shoulder and back fatigue.

Even when I first started into Field Archery and hadn't yet build up strength in the ol' archery muscles, I didn't find that a 65% let-off was bad. You get used to it REAL fast.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> I still haven't figured out why they make a letoff higher then 65%. :noidea:
> 
> I shoot 59.5 lbs with 65% and wouldn't mind shooting less let off:wink:


I also shoot 65% but at about 57.5 lbs...I wouldn't want anymore let off. I need the holding weight to be able to properly execute my shot...

I wish I could get lower let off so I could get the holding weight with less poundage...


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

WrongdayJ said:


> I agree.
> 
> I think it depends on how long you hold/aim and how much draw weight you are pulling.
> 
> ...


And holding is just a matter of practice. I have shot Redding a couple of times with Ben Hobbs. That guy can hold for an eternity with a 65% let off. Just how you practice.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

psargeant said:


> I also shoot 65% but at about 57.5 lbs...I wouldn't want anymore let off. I need the holding weight to be able to properly execute my shot...
> 
> I wish I could get lower let off so I could get the holding weight with less poundage...


Change your cable strand count and your serving size:wink:


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

The more weight on your release hand the better!!! My bow set at 60lbs has 20lbs at the wall!!! needless to say I did some tinkering to get it to do that...


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> Change your cable strand count and your serving size:wink:


Yeah I know, but I don't make my own strings...It gets expensive to play around with that stuff when you're buying them...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Holding forever? Just remember one FACT.....the human mind can only concentrate on ONE THING COMPLETELY....for about 7 seconds...so WHY would a person ever WANT to hold "forever" or for what seems like "5 minutes"?

Does a person really think that holding LONGER makes the shot BETTER?

I think a re-look might be in order.....it would seem to me that the FIRST TIME that dot sits still in the center is the BEST time to TAKE the shot....I didn't say PUNCH the shot, or "TOUCH IT OFF"...I said "TAKE" the shot.

It is only going to detriorate from there.

Now, with little to no "holding weight"; saying <14 or 15 pounds holding weight...how does one ever think they are using back tension and not ARM tension to hold at full draw?

then comes the low, no, extremely low string tension with those higher letoffs...which means you can twist or turn the string into a pretzel with little or no effort....as in deflect the string so much easier.

Just another case of people in archery thinking MORE is better...and sooner or later will find out that in the case of HOLDING WEIGHT and HOLDING TIME...more is NOT better in nearly all cases. Of course, we are talking target shooting and accuracy here....and CONSISTENCY.

field14


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

field14 said:


> . . .so WHY would a person ever WANT to hold "forever" or for what seems like "5 minutes"?
> 
> Does a person really think that holding LONGER makes the shot BETTER?. . .


I totally agree with you field14. I don't know how some folks maintain the physical and mental focus for those long draw/hold cycles for 112 shots. 

Personally, I don't see why holding for longer than a full 10 seconds is ever necessary. . .I think if you ain't got it by then, you should let it down and start over.

Heck, even folks who practice Japanese Kyudo archery don't hold a full draw for more than a full 7-10 seconds- and their shot routine is by design a long formal sequence- almost ceremonial.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

If my shot doesnt go off within 10-11 seconds from the time I start to draw to firing , then it is best if I let down and start over.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

I'd be nearly willing to bet that most of you do NOT HAVE A CLUE which "timing" gives you the highest odds of hitting the X nearly every time???

I DO, and people I'm working with and have worked with....do NOT COUNT...but by the time we are through the "System" they are utilizing THEIR PERSONAL TIMING that produces the most X's for them.

If you are all over the board on your shot seuqence timing, you are also probably all over the bullseye, your X count is like a yo-yo, and when you go to tournaments you are baffled at what has changed...besides the tournament "nerves" (or so you THINK it is the jitters).

Gotta find YOUR timing that produces the highest X's...and if you don't know it and practice it, you are missing turning over a very important stone to learning WHAT WORKS..

field14


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Paraphrasing that old move line: 

Let off! We don't need no stinking let off!

Hey guys, shooting a recurve with fingers would answer all these questions! Sorry, couldn't resist. (smile)

Dave


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

field14 said:


> . . .I'd be nearly willing to bet that most of you do NOT HAVE A CLUE which "timing" gives you the highest odds of hitting the X nearly every time???. . .


In my case at least, you are totally right. All I know is that the longer I hold, the worse I shoot. I have always shot my personal best scores with a rather quick hold at full draw. By rather quick I mean 5 full seconds or less roughly (I've never actually timed myself). In all fairness, though, I'm not a Pro and I'm not shooting 540+ scores, either (yet). I just feel more controlled and comfortable with a relatively quick release. 



Dave T said:


> . . .Hey guys, shooting a recurve with fingers would answer all these questions! Sorry, couldn't resist. (smile). . .


Dave, in all honesty- I'm seriously considering it. Recurves are very interesting to me and I'd like to give 'em a shot (no pun intended). Now Barebow like you. . .I don't know about that. . .


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

WrongdayJ said:


> Dave, in all honesty- I'm seriously considering it. Recurves are very interesting to me and I'd like to give 'em a shot (no pun intended). Now Barebow like you. . .I don't know about that. . .


We have got to get together out at Usery. Heck I may convince you to go barebow too! (smile)

Dave


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

WrongdayJ said:


> In my case at least, you are totally right. All I know is that the longer I hold, the worse I shoot. I have always shot my personal best scores with a rather quick hold at full draw. By rather quick I mean 5 full seconds or less roughly (I've never actually timed myself). In all fairness, though, I'm not a Pro and I'm not shooting 540+ scores, either (yet). I just feel more controlled and comfortable with a relatively quick release.


Why do you not let down :noidea:

I am amazed at the # people that I shoot with or have shot with that pretty much REFUSE to let the shot down and start over. It takes more energy to stay at full draw and force a terrible shot then it does to let down and, regroup and start over.:wink:


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

*Why do you not let down *
I am amazed at the # people that I shoot with or have shot with that pretty much REFUSE to let the shot down and start over. It takes more energy to stay at full draw and force a terrible shot then it does to let down and, regroup and start over. 

I bet the thought process sounds something in the lines of the following.
Why cant I hold steady, I am struggling to get the shot to fire, 
All I really want is the shot to go off on command. I am totally focused on the release and the aiming dot. What is my problem today?
All this anticipation causes me to flinch. My shot collapsed and the arrow is a solid four ring again. Then they just repeat the same thought process - cant I just shoot a good arrow and they start over again

I was talking about the same thing today with Macaholic.
My finally reply was.
I think people really want to shoot the arrow much more than they want the arrow to end up in the center.
Just think about that!
If they really wanted the arrow to end up in the bullseye they would learn to let down and stop forcing the shots.
It is a very simple thought process - I want the arrow to go in the middle. Everything before the shot must must feel correct or I wont shoot it.
Good shots go in the center.

Teach your self what a good shot is and break down your shot sequence so you know what it takes to make one good shot. One step at a time. Shoot each shot really attempting to achieve that same shot everytime. Do not vary ever. Same shot at every distance. The only difference would be your sight adjustment.


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## PB26 (Dec 31, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> Change your cable strand count and your serving size:wink:


I'm looking to get lower let-off -- does lowering the strand count and using thinner serving give you lower let-off, or have I got it backwards. Thanks.


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

Thicker cables will lower your let off percentage slightly.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

WrongdayJ said:


> Dave, in all honesty- I'm seriously considering it. Recurves are very interesting to me and I'd like to give 'em a shot (no pun intended). Now Barebow like you. . .I don't know about that. . .


I picked one up in the classifieds not long ago...I am having a blast with it...might be even more fun than my compound in some ways...


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

jarlicker said:


> *Why do you not let down *
> I am amazed at the # people that I shoot with or have shot with that pretty much REFUSE to let the shot down and start over. It takes more energy to stay at full draw and force a terrible shot then it does to let down and, regroup and start over.
> 
> I bet the thought process sounds something in the lines of the following.
> ...


Sounds about right...and Mac and I should know:wink:


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## PB26 (Dec 31, 2006)

jarlicker said:


> Thicker cables will lower your let off percentage slightly.


Thanks.


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

Pure, unadulterated, honest question. Can anyone "really" tell a difference in 80% vs. 65% letoff?

My Mojo is set at 50# DW with 80% letoff - S4 set at 50 # DW with 65% letoff. Maybe it's the fact that these are 2 entirely different bows OR the fact that it's only 2.5 lbs, but I honestly can't tell a difference in the holding weight.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I sure can...

I like to shoot with holding weight somewhere around 20-22 lbs...to get that with 80% let off I have to shoot a 105lb bow...

With the low let off, I just can't hold as steady, or get as clean a release...

The difference between your bows should be more like 7.5lbs by the way...

50*.35 (65% let off)= 17.5
50*.2(80% let off)=10


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## pragmatic_lee (Jan 19, 2008)

psargeant said:


> I sure can...
> 
> I like to shoot with holding weight somewhere around 20-22 lbs...to get that with 80% let off I have to shoot a 105lb bow...
> 
> ...


Yea, my FAT fingers kinda screwed up my math this morning. :wink: For me, I think it is the fact that I'm not only shooting a different bow, but also a different release. Either of these will result in "differences" and the amount of holding weight is probably just not as evident.


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## Canjapan2003 (Jun 3, 2006)

*Wow !!*



psargeant said:


> I sure can...
> 
> I like to shoot with holding weight somewhere around 20-22 lbs...to get that with 80% let off I have to shoot a 105lb bow...
> 
> ...


Wow, I mean really big shock here! I thought the 80% or 65% meant you would be HOLDING 80 or 65 percent of the DW !:embara: 
No wonder those guys I go to the field course with can smoke between rounds  
Seriously, you guys gotta try a FITA single with 0% let off holding 40+ pounds.


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## WrongdayJ (May 22, 2008)

Brown Hornet said:


> . . .Why do you not let down :noidea: . . .


I do let down. If it doesn't feel right- I'll break it down and try again.

I'm just saying that I know if it's gonna be OK relatively quickly. If there's anything that is feeling funny- it's coming back down and I'll start the sequence over.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Canjapan2003 said:


> Wow, I mean really big shock here! I thought the 80% or 65% meant you would be HOLDING 80 or 65 percent of the DW !:embara:
> No wonder those guys I go to the field course with can smoke between rounds
> Seriously, you guys *gotta try a FITA single* with 0% let off holding 40+ pounds.


I recently aquired a yamaha recurve that I am slowly learning how to shoot, so I know where you are coming from...my opinion only of course, but I find it easier to pull through the clicker with the recurve at 39lbs than to execute a good BT shot with my EVO at 21 lb holding weight.

I think the lack of a draw stop makes continuing to pull through an easier proposition, at least in my shot sequence...


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Tried to correct my spelling and accidentally double posted. See below!

Dave


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Paraphrasing that old movie line again:

Clickers! We don't need no stinking clickers!"

...said the barebow recurve shooter. (big smiley face goes here)

Dave


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Pure, unadulterated, honest question. Can anyone "really" tell a difference in 80% vs. 65% letoff?
> 
> My Mojo is set at 50# DW with 80% letoff - S4 set at 50 # DW with 65% letoff. Maybe it's the fact that these are 2 entirely different bows OR the fact that it's only 2.5 lbs, but I honestly can't tell a difference in the holding weight.


Tell the difference....are you serious?:embara:

I can tell the difference in the same bow with 2-3lbs difference in weight.:wink:


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## itchyfinger (Jun 14, 2007)

pragmatic_lee said:


> Pure, unadulterated, honest question. Can anyone "really" tell a difference in 80% vs. 65% letoff?
> 
> My Mojo is set at 50# DW with 80% letoff - S4 set at 50 # DW with 65% letoff. Maybe it's the fact that these are 2 entirely different bows OR the fact that it's only 2.5 lbs, but I honestly can't tell a difference in the holding weight.


I get "lost" with 80%. Can't be consistent into the wall unless it's pretty hard. I like to really pull into the wall, so very hard walls like the nitrous suite me well. I wouldn't mind an 80% if it had a draw stop though.


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## jarlicker (Jul 29, 2002)

Sarge not to worry but that ability of yours to be able to pull through the clicker easily will be going away shortly.

The reason you are able to pull through the clicker easier than your BT release is because of not having a magnified lense to show you all the movement going on while your pulling to execute the shot. Once you get used to the sight picture with the recurve it will start getting more difficult.
Plus you dont have the same level of scoring expectations between compound and recurve that in it self would make shooting the recurve easier.

Just work on being smooth. Pull through the clicker with constant backward motion


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