# 125 grain vs 100 grain



## OhioDale

I recently purchased a new Hoyt Vector 35. While sighting it in, I used 125 grain field tips and it is deadly accurate. I am thinking I would like to use some 100 grain Spitfire Broadheads. What can I expect? Safe to assume that I need to re-sight using 100 grain tips? Ok another variable, thinking of adding FireNocks to them, How much do they weigh and would that make up the difference between switching to 100 grain broadheads while initially sighted in using 125 grain heads?

Thanks - I shot crossbow last season but wasn't happy so I have made the switch back to compound bow


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## itsslow98

Any change to the weight you need to make sure its sighted in. By adding the firenock your also adding the weight to the opposite end of the arrow so im sure that would change the trajectory. I believe they weigh somewhere around 20 grams.


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## zkid09

You could get gold tip inserts and their weight system. Add 20-30 gr to the back and then 100 gr broadhead. Will shoot very close to the same. 

Lighted knocks will weigh some too and change your foc so you'll have to sight in again for that probably. 

If you go to 100gr, your arrow may be too stiff.... Depends on your setup. 

PDP also has a weight system for inserts. If you go that route, make sure to get the master adapter thing they offer or the weights are worthless. Trust me, I made that mistake lol


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## OhioDale

Ok - Now I am confused - shot a 125 grain field point this morning followed by a 100 grain field point using the same arrows. I grouped them in the the bullseye as tight at the size of a quarter. Seemed to make no difference at 20 yards. So then I shot a 100 grain spitfire. Spitfire ended up approx 2 inches right of the other group but seemed to whip a little side to side in flight. Is this caused by the tip not heavy enough?

I shoot a brand new Hoyt Vector 35....30 inch draw....65ish pounds...Cabelas Stalker Extreme Arrows 65/80 with 4 inch vanes. 

I have a few 100 grain Spitfires from my crossbow - trying to figure out if they can carry over also or if I should invest in different broadheads...and if so what? I traditionally have shot 125 Thunderheads but I know the new broadheads offer a much bigger cutting diameter than those did.

I appreciate any and all advice.

Thanks

Dale


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## zkid09

Twenty yards probably won't show a huge difference as far as field points go. 
As far as the broadhead shooting right, try bumping your rest just a touch to the left an see if it fixes that. 
Sometimes a flyer to the right can be a stiff spine if I remember correctly. 
I'm not home or I'd run your stats and see what would be a better weight for you. I can rub it tonight if you'd like


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## OhioDale

that would be great - I don't know much about that stuff but I am trying to learn.


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## zkid09

Haha sounds good buddy. When you get a chance, send me a PM with your specs... 
Bow and year, draw length, draw weight, let off % if you know it, what all is on your string (peep, loop, silencers, etc).
Arrow, spine, nock and insert if you've changed them, what type vanes, arrow length and point weight. 
Also, see what the shortest arrow you could comfortably shoot is if you Can. It'll make it a little easier to get your specs as perfect as I can


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## OhioDale

Here is to the best of my knowledge

2012 Hoyt Vector 35 - 30inch Draw - 65 pounds - 75% let off (I think) has a round peep and D Loop

Arrows (currently but thinking of upgrading) Cabelas Stalker Extreme 65/80 9.3gpi - 340 spine 30.5 inches from insert to end of nock - stock inserts and nock - 4 inch vanes (I have some that just got refletched with Blazers but haven't shot yet) Point weight now is 125 - asking about 100

also contemplating firenocks

I don't think I would want to shoot much shorter arrow than this.

Thanks for your help


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## Nitroboy

With your bow having RKT cams at 30" draw and 65# you are prob a tad under spined hence the broadhead hitting right of your field points, you could turn your poundage down a few turns and see if they hit back with your field points if they do its weak spined arrow, if not your centershot maybe off just a smidge OR you have yoke tuning issues

The new RKT cams are very efficient and throw a lot of energy into the arrow, All the bows I have tuned in my shop have all needed a stiffer spine than any chart recommended, I shoot a Vector Turbo it's a 35" bow set at 28" draw 62# and I have to shoot Easton Bloodline 330spine to get them to tune 

And for the most part unless your shooting long distance you prob won't see much difference in adding lighted nocks, the 125 verses 100 won't show up either much til you get out farther, I have shot 10 arrows at 20 yds, different diameter, weight, length, spine and at 20 they all hit dead on now 30 they were a difference but a well tuned bow will shoot just about anything at 20 because its more forgiving being its tuned right

Best thing to do is don't freak out bout it just shoot them and see, no one knows 100% because every setup and shooter is different


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## OhioDale

Very good thoughts - I will admit - I don't know much about spine - what should my spine be - I am kind of looking at HT1 arrows from Bloodsport... http://www.gomuddy.com/store/product-arrows/ht1/14.html

which spine of these should I be using with this set up? With so many broadheads out there...which should I pick from....I do like the spitfires since they don't have rubberbands to contend with...but these are the only mechanicals that I have ever shot.

I plan to keep my old thunderhead fixed broadheads for days I decide to hunt out of my groundblind as I have read much that mechanicals don't do well with shoot thru screens ...(I have never tried that but just seems not to makes sense to me for arrow flight)

Last year I hunted with a Ten Point Crossbow because I really wasn't happy with the bow I had - Now that I am shooting this Hoyt - Love it and can't wait to get in the tree...with it...but I do want tuned right to avoid any not so exact shots.

I have never looked at easton bloodline arrows - how are they?


Thanks so much for the help both of you - I was hesitant to join the forums ....as I have joined other forums in the past and really didn't enjoy the constant drama and bickering but this one seems different so far





Nitroboy said:


> With your bow having RKT cams at 30" draw and 65# you are prob a tad under spined hence the broadhead hitting right of your field points, you could turn your poundage down a few turns and see if they hit back with your field points if they do its weak spined arrow, if not your centershot maybe off just a smidge OR you have yoke tuning issues
> 
> The new RKT cams are very efficient and throw a lot of energy into the arrow, All the bows I have tuned in my shop have all needed a stiffer spine than any chart recommended, I shoot a Vector Turbo it's a 35" bow set at 28" draw 62# and I have to shoot Easton Bloodline 330spine to get them to tune
> 
> And for the most part unless your shooting long distance you prob won't see much difference in adding lighted nocks, the 125 verses 100 won't show up either much til you get out farther, I have shot 10 arrows at 20 yds, different diameter, weight, length, spine and at 20 they all hit dead on now 30 they were a difference but a well tuned bow will shoot just about anything at 20 because its more forgiving being its tuned right
> 
> Best thing to do is don't freak out bout it just shoot them and see, no one knows 100% because every setup and shooter is different


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## OhioDale

Looking at the Eastons - they look pretty appealing too. Does it look like I need to be in the 330 spine range?


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## b0w_bender

Here is a doc that is invaluable in explaining the importance of spine, tip weight and tuning.
http://www.eastonarchery.com/img/downloads/software/tuning_guide.pdf

I found that on my setup the 100 grain tips gained me about 7 inches less arrow drop at 40 yards. keep in mind that lighter broadheads will give you less penetration but 100's should be fine for deer sized game.


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## OhioDale

well stumbled on another possible cause - noticed my drop away rest has fletching marks on it where the vains were rubbing. Took it to a bow shop tonight - ripcord for rest wasn't adeaquately installed by the other bow shop so it was slipping up the string as I drew back causing the rest not to release as fast as it should. Hopefully this cures the problem. I will shoot in the morning again to see if this rectified the problem. Hopefully so.


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## zkid09

glad you found the contact!

ive been sick is why i havent had a chance to run those numbers. finally got a chance this evening.
your spine is weak. not terribly weak, but definitely weak. dropping to 100gr tip would help it a fair amount.
your optimal spine with 125 gr would be .294.. your optimal spine with 100 gr would be .304. doesnt sound like a huge difference, but every difference helps.
dropping from 125 to 100 is going to drop your foc from 14% to 12%.. not great, but still very shootable.

from there, you could chance to a lighter insert (around 10gr) and drop your poundage to around 63# and it would be dead on.. 
if you did all of this, you would be shooting 285 fps, 11% foc, 72 ke

if you decide with new arrows and like the eastons, look for a .300 spine... st axis are great arrows. those at 30" (carbon to carbon, not nock and insert). with 100s youll be just a hair stiff at 65# or a hair weak with 125s at 65#. they should tune well though!
i would say try the bloodlines, but the .330 is still a bit weak.

black eagle also offers a .300 spine and ive heard they are amazing arrows. easton, vap, gold tip, and carbon express all offer an arrow in the .300 range.

just a few options.. and none of this means your arrows wont tune, because im not 100% positive if they will or wont without the fletching contact... just trying to help a little!!!

if you decide on new arrows, please let me know and ill get you setup with as close to the perfect setup as i possibly can!!!


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## OhioDale

well - while at the bow shop - he measured the weight - I am at 64 lbs.

Shooting this morning yields the same problems. I was shooting those arrows (refletched with blazers) with 125 grain thunderheads. 3 arrows - 1 consistently in the bullseye no matter where it fell in the order of shot.. and the other 2 veared off drastically to the right....once so much so that the arrow was at an angle in the target hence the next shot shearing off one of the vanes ---oops --- that vane lasted about 5 shots.

so made improvements with the rest contact but not much better as far as shooting them...gotta admit...its a bit frustrating

so it's looking like new arrows is the next option ...would you agree? and broadheads too ?? give me some suggestions of good 100grain broadheads...

Check these out and let me know your thoughts - http://www.gomuddy.com/store/product-arrows/ht1/14.html


Our season starts Saturday - Cant go opening day...but looks like I am not ready to go yet anyway unless I take the ten point out instead ( but I really wanna take the new Hoyt)

I so appreciate your thoughts and help.


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## zkid09

Hopefully you'll get it squared away quickly! 
I would see if that arrow would paper tune and If not, buy new arrows. I doubt it will tune, but its possible. 
Shoot it at about 5 ft or so and get it close it a bullet hole. Doesn't have to be perfect yet. Then step back a few steps, take a shot or two, take another step or two and a couple more shots. 

The farther you move back, the arrow will probably tear in different directions as you step back because its so weak.

As far as arrows, my first choice would be black eagle carnivores. Newer company but hearing great things about them.
Next would be those ht1 arrows. They're basically the old harvest time arrows. Harvest time made an awesome arrow and those ht1 are nothing less. 
If you want to try a micro diameter shaft, try the black eagle deep impact. You'll have to buy outserts for these because they're super tiny like the new Easton injexions, but have heard the super small diameter shoots great. I have no experience with them yet though.


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## OhioDale

trying to order them online but its not accepting my payment info - not sure why - need to figure out where I can order some


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## zkid09

Which ones bud?


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## OhioDale

either - was going with the Black Eagle Carnivore first because they are cheaper for a dozen higher straightness - 

news flash - bought some Rage broadheads this weekend that came with practice tips....dug through all my old arrows - found 4 arrows that came with my previous bow - they said 300 on them....they with the 100 grain practice heads flew pretty well straight and true - maybe just 2 inches higher than where I was sighted in on all 125 stuff and weaker arrows.

so....I say your a genius -- it seems despite the charts -- a 300 arrow and a 100 grain head is my answer

Now just to find somewhere to order these and get them really soon as Ohio's season started yesterday.

Thanks for all your help


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## zkid09

Good deal! If you have to, call them!


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## OhioDale

ordered - although I emailed them - didn't see anywhere I could pick the length - must have to take them to get cut down when I get them???


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## zkid09

Might have to. I'm not 100% sure. Call them sometime tomorrow and ask about it. That way if they don't get to their email before they package them up, they may still be out so they can be cut ! 

Or cutting after you get them is an option as well. Either is about equal if you have a place close to get them cut


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## OhioDale

I emailed them - amazing fast reply.

Seems the guy I was talking to lives about 50 miles from me but they ship from Georgia - I emailed me back saying they come uncut. I have a local archery shop nearby - I'm hoping he will work me in to get these ready to go...and soon....I'm itching to get in the woods and would rather take the new bow than my crossbow.

I just wonder what the uncut length is - My arrows now are 29 9/16 inches without the nock so I doubt I will have to cut off much


Thanks for all your help- you definitely guided me in the right direction


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## zkid09

Haha I know that feeling!! 
Which arrows did you go with? Black eagles?? I bet they'll be 30 or 31" so you won't have to cut much at all. 

And no problem! Any time I can help, I'd be more than glad to!


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## OhioDale

I went with your reccomendation - Black Eagle Carnivores 300 - anxious to get them set up so I can get the bow dialed in again. Ive been shooting a couple 300's that I have with the Rage Practice Heads - They fly pretty true so Im looking forward to them arriving. 

One more question - the guy at the Archery Shop says FireNocks are the thing to get - your opinion?


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## zkid09

My personal opinion, I don't like them. 
I think it would be cool to see your shot sometimes, but I think it causes more issues than it helps. I think knowing there will a light that you can see hit the deer makes you not follow through with the shot because your trying to watch the arrow. 
Also, more weight being on the back of the arrow kills foc. I shoot a 26 5/8" easton flatline .400 arrow, 125gr tip, 10-12gr inserts, 9gr Bohning double lock nocks, 3 blazers that weigh 18gr. My arrow weight is 364.4 gr. 15.38% foc. Even adding a 6 gr wrap to my arrow lowers me to 14.4% foc if I remember correctly. Adding a 25gr nock would stiffen my spine a little as well as killing my foc. Also, I only shoot 26.5" draw at 61# and adding 6 gr to the back drops me 2 fps. 

Not that all these numbers are drastic, but being such a short draw guy, it kills my numbers for speed, ke, etc so little things go a long way for me. 

Also, I've been reading of nockturnals breaking when shot which would be similar to a dry fire. 

All these things plus the cost add up for me to not like them personally

If I were going to shoot one, I'd shoot a fire nock though. It seems to have the best reviews. I personally like the Bohning double lock nocks myself. They seem to do very well. They lock on good but aren't super tight, low profile and have had very very few break on me when stacking arrows. 

Try getting a clear looking nock and putting one of the small glow sticks in it. I've heard a ton of people doing this lol


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## OhioDale

Recieved my Black Eagle Carnivores today - Man these look sweet - now to the Archery shop tommorrow (was in the stand tonight) to get these ready to go. Thanks for all your help. Can't wait to shoot these to officially put those issues to rest.


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## OhioDale

Killed a buck Saturday with my Black Eagle Carnivores...thanks for the advice.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2


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## zkid09

Heck yeah!! Post up some pics when you get a chance!!


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