# Ibo



## Mike Gossard (Nov 14, 2009)

I want to express some thoughts that I have after this past weekends Erie shoot and the post / comments I have read on the social network sites. While I agree with the principles of the posts, I need to state for the record that I am a Life Time member of the IBO and have been shooting the IBO before the triple crown existed. My membership number is 3720 and I have many friends that are members before my joining the IBO.

It is funny how things always come around to which I will point to a time when those of us shooting would complain that when the pros were on the same courses as the amateurs the ranges would get all backed up and you would literally be on the course for hours. Hence the two-minute rule, lots of Friday shooters in & out, the pros shooting off site, and the peers only shooting together at the third leg. The mission of the IBO is to "Promote, Encourage, and Foster the Sport of Bowhunting". I remember when the ASA started and to be honest I have always thought of it as more as an archery competition with it's main focus on the "Competition". I have never shot at an ASA event, and I want to! but with only so many vacation days i have been fortunate to live within a 5 hours drive or less to all the Triple Crown events. They have been something I look forward to every year as a time to shoot with my buddies, hang out with my friends, rub elbows with the industry leaders and celebraties, and to introduce my wife, daughters, countless friends and children to the sport of bowhunting & competive archery. Even at 52 years old I hope that I will compete at the highest level possible and I still have the desire to be sponsered or shoot pro some day :tongue:, but the real reason I go is to have fun, meet up with the hundreds of friends I have made over the years, meet new friends, and sharpen my skills for the up coming hunting seasons.

We all see opportunities for the sport to grow, I agree, with more women & men visible on the Hunting TV shows shooting archery (We are lucky to have a few of them at our shoots!) it only makes sense that the sport is becoming more acceptable to those who appreciate hunting & the outdoors. Women & children mean more Husbands, fathers, & sons will want to try their skills. While there are many factors, the IBO has always been family friendly and I agree that the opportunity at hand requires the necessary attention so that improvements can be made to include more & more. This will require vision, leadership, and organization.

I believe we should all take responsibly, being accountable to ourselves, to promote the IBO, the ASA, the local clubs, and the sport of bowhunting! We have a chance to be a part of the solution. 

I want to thank Ken Watkins, the State Representatives, the few IBO Staff, and the host clubs(who have a huge part in the process) for their commitment, vision, and leadership through it all since 1984. Many things have changed and many things will again no doubt in the future. I for one am glad that we are the IBO and I can look forward to the next shoot!


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

Agree, thanks for a positive post!


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

Well said Mike, I agree with you and would like to take a minute and thank, Ken and his staff for what they do and how they do it. Your not going to make everyone happy all the time but when people complain about the IBO vs ASA I feel we as archers are trying to fight the North against South all over again. Both clubs have different rules and faults neither is perfect nor will they ever be perfect. Agreed the IBO is a family friendly organization, When my goood friend (Dave) passed away from cancer a small talk with Ken and next thing I knew a photo and write up about him on the front page of the IBO website. All I did is ask Ken if he could put out something of his passing in the news area and he went and made it front page. As far as some keyboard junkies who want to paint a bad image on what is done and how it's operated I guess we'll have to live with them. 
Thanks Ken Watkins, his staff and all the state reps for making some of my best memories I have enjoyed over the years. I'v also made allot of friends from shooting and did this by always being paired up with them at the tent. Remember hind sight is always 20/20, it's easy to sit and criticize anyone and anything in life, sometime it's better to just enjoy moment and be glad someone is busting their butt just so we can enjoy our sport...


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## Hoosier bowman (Jan 10, 2010)

Good post. I am a new member to the IBO and I wish I would have joined years ago. Can't wait for next leg of triple crown in OH. 

Thanks IBO for all you do for us bowhunters and the sport itself.


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## bullseye-rod (Jan 29, 2012)

Well Put. This shows the ethics and attributes that we as archers should live by.


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## Hoosier bowman (Jan 10, 2010)

ttt. I think more people should read this. I hope we are not the only ones that feel this way about IBO.


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

well said, met and shot with a man that just retired from the army and completed 5 tours. he was a true joy to shoot with. every time i read the bla bla posts of how bad the ibo is, thanks mike for keeping it real


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## troxautoserv (Apr 20, 2009)

ABSOLUTLEY!!!! I do this to have FUN! If your not having fun it's not worth doing!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Nice post. About time we had something other than being on the war path.... Thank you.


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## 1monstertriumph (Aug 17, 2010)

Very good outlook on it but me as a person who has never shot ibo and has no desire to bc you never hear anything good about it Ibo is more a local tourney that is glorified. As far as meeting random people it doesn't seem like it is as possible as at an Asa event bc you can shoot with your buddies if you want. And me being a person with a short draw length and ibo's speed rule it doesn't put me on a fair level as everyone else. My thoughts on the speed rule is why promote someone to shoot a light arrow real fast at an animal? If it's to promote hunting?? I live in one of the biggest hunting states there is and the ibo is non existent here idk why but it just isn't. Organization just isn't for me I guess. And yes we all do it for fun. I attend every Asa and enjoy it tremendously!


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

I always here people say they like the ASA speed limit because it makes things fair. I'm not quite sure I understand this statement. How is it fair if one person can shoot a Hoyt Vantage Elite at 50lbs with a 31" draw length, shooting a large diameter arrow that has a heavy tip and another person has to shoot a short speed bow with a six inch brace height, at 60 to 70 pounds and light arrows to get the same speed because they have a 25 or 26 inch draw length. I know that is an extreme example, but just because everyone is shooting the same speed doesn't mean it's fair. I'm not trying to start an argument or bash either organization. I have only shot in one ASA Pro-Am and that was many years ago. But I enjoyed it very much and it was very well organized. Last year was the first year I shot an IBO shoot in many years(life keeps getting in the way) My wife and I shot the IBO Worlds and really enjoyed it, very well run and organized. I really hate to see all of this bickering about one organization or the other, I agree with the OP, why can't we just be glad that there are some people who are willing to do all the work. And if you feel that strongly that "improvements" need to be made than step up and do the work and help run the shoots.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

How can you step up and help or change things when the Mafia that runs the IBO does not want any outsiders!!! I have never seen on there website asking for suggestions to improve shots? Change shot locations? Even looking for bright young people to help improve the Org. This is a very private circle you are talking about. Just think for a minute how much money the clubs have made over the years off the northern triple crown? Some of these places have had the shoots for more than 15 years!! They need new venues that rotate every few years. As for the speed limit I am pretty sure the IBO is the only outdoor archery event that does enforce a speed or draw weight rule? The no speed limit is purely for $$$ they get more participates that way... I would love to shoot the IBO if it was ran correctly but I will continue to drive and fly to ASA shoots..


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

So much for a positive thread . Lol. Isn't there a ibo hater thread or two you can post on? I think everyone knows your feelings on Ibo shoots.


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## darton3d (Oct 16, 2009)

Sorry dude, didn't mean to get you all riled up. Just a thought, just because you don't like the way the IBO runs their shoots doesn't mean no one else should. I agree with your position, if you don't like their shoots don't go, speak with your money. But, they must be doing somethings right, they still draw lots of people. If the lack of a speed limit draws more shooters than I would say they are meeting their goal. Their purpose is to raise funds to promote and protect bowhunting. Lot's of people don't go to ASA shoots because they can't afford the travel expenses or can't get off from work, so they speak with their money. Does that mean the ASA should change? The differences between the two organizations may be why they are both successful. There is something for almost every 3D shooter in one or the other. They both have proven to have their issues this past year. I like them both and would shoot the ASA if it was closer to me. I go to enjoy the experience and do what I love to do, shot my bow! Like someone once said, you can't please all of the people all of the time. I believe they both have a place in archery and I am sure they will both continue to evolve over the years. If you feel that strongly about changing the IBO there has to be a way to get elected to their board of directors. Personally I don't have the time or ambition to be that involved, so I am happy just to have shoots to go to. Do I like everything they do...NOPE. In fact years ago I got into a heated discussion with Ken W. Lets just say I don't have a favorable opinion of him from my encounter. But I voiced my opinion and moved on. Too many more important things in life to worry about. Best of luck to you in your shooting endeavors!


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

It's funny that most of the people that trash the IBO either have never shot in it or have only shot in it once or twice many years ago, all of which are just regurgitating what they've read from others just like them. And these people are the reason I'll probably never shoot in an ASA shoot, don't have any desire to spend a ton of money to be surrounded by people like that for a weekend.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

It's just unfortunate that the IBO is not proactive in improving it's product. That isn't saying that it's awful or that I won't go to the next tournament.


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

i wish the asa would move one north, michigan pumps quite a bit of money from the local asa shoots south


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

milkman38 said:


> i wish the asa would move one north, michigan pumps quite a bit of money from the local asa shoots south



MI,WI,and MN have a huge archery population yet the closest we get is 9-12hr drive. Would love to see a ASA or even a national IBO up here.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

schmel_me said:


> MI,WI,and MN have a huge archery population yet the closest we get is 9-12hr drive. Would love to see a ASA or even a national IBO up here.


Wonder if Mike would franchise the ASA business model to someone that could experiment up North? I would say he would like to see 750 to 100 shooters at a shoot...if it would take off then you could have a Northwest Region and a Southwest Region. Say 4 shoots for each region and then a championship centrally located. Shooters would have opportunity to get shooter of the year in the South or North or Both! Just 3 shoots would need to qualify you and the championship.

Northwest Region

Kentucky
Metropolis
??? Don't know
??? Don't know

Southern
Florida
Georgia
LA
Texas

I looked up the center of the US and it is Lebanon KS! Could someone do a 500 or 600 mile radius map of let's say metropolis IL? 

Just an idea these locations could all be changed...some requirements for locations
1 hour or less from airport
Attractions for kids and family
Plenty of hotels that can not monopolize and raise price ...
Camping available
Easy access and exit to and from shoot


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

One of the reasons ASA does come North is because of prior attendance. From 1997 to 2005 there have been several ASA shoots up North. Columbus Indiana in 1997, Turkeyville Michigan 2000-2002, Auburn Indiana 2003 and Harrisburg PA in 2005. What did all these Northern shoots have in common? They were the lowest attended shoots of the year........less than 750 shooters. When Mike can stay South and draw 1300 why would he want to travel further for less money? Put yourselves in his place.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

Bubba Dean said:


> One of the reasons ASA does come North is because of prior attendance. From 1997 to 2005 there have been several ASA shoots up North. Columbus Indiana in 1997, Turkeyville Michigan 2000-2002, Auburn Indiana 2003 and Harrisburg PA in 2005. What did all these Northern shoots have in common? They were the lowest attended shoots of the year........less than 750 shooters. When Mike can stay South and draw 1300 why would he want to travel further for less money? Put yourselves in his place.


The Harrisburg shoot timing was right in the middle of IBO's with State championships going on also. Changing equipment right in mid season isn't an option for most. Better thought into your shoot dates would have had a better turnout. Used to have one in Virginia also?? You can't hold one and pull out it takes time to build attendance. With a date right after IBO World's you'd make out better up north.


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## 1monstertriumph (Aug 17, 2010)

Kinda a bad rep on northern Asa bc your facts maybe true but you neglected to say metropolis is the highest attendance all year and it is the furthest north? So there is a good reason. Asa won't come north bc they are from ga why would they want to drive further?


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Monster if you were a businessman would you drive farther to make less money? I don't think so. As far as Metropolis is concerned it was dropped as a shoot site in the late 90's because of poor attendance(also it was the fifth ProAm). Now it is the last ProAm and last chance for SOY points before Classic.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

Milkman back in the old days the Michigan Federation was the largest in the country. When the ASA pulled the ProAm from Turkeyville the state director resigned. His assistant took over and things have been swirling ever since(until Keith took over, he has done an excellent job of righting the ship). As far as money back to ASA goes Texas has more shooters at their state championship shoot than other states have all year.


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## arrowblaster (Feb 9, 2004)

Back to the op, great post!! Guess we never will get rid of the union/ confederate stuff. lol It is nice to go to a shoot and have FUN with old friends and new ones!!!!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

If you where a smart business man wouldn't you hire a marketing firm and give them all the zip codes of the PARTICIPANTS that attended Pro Ams and the let them give suggestions where the best shoot locations should be located based on the archers that travel!! I understand some states may have more shooters but how many of them travel to more than one Pro Am? Traveling participants is what keeps attendance up and increases revenue!! 

Less classes making larger classes would increase the number of participants that would receive payback.
100 participates at 20% payback pays 20 places
200 participates at 20% payback pays 40 places


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## 1monstertriumph (Aug 17, 2010)

So the asa puts metropolis last intentionally bc they know people will drive? Sounds like they don't care about their customers. Nobody likes the northern folk. Just like Ricky bobby say " if you ain't from the south the f you!"


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Does the IBO not have a mandatory move up list? I can't find one?
I can't find how much each class cost to shoot on their website?
Can you pre-register on their website?


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Bubba Dean said:


> One of the reasons ASA does come North is because of prior attendance. From 1997 to 2005 there have been several ASA shoots up North. Columbus Indiana in 1997, Turkeyville Michigan 2000-2002, Auburn Indiana 2003 and Harrisburg PA in 2005. What did all these Northern shoots have in common? They were the lowest attended shoots of the year........less than 750 shooters. When Mike can stay South and draw 1300 why would he want to travel further for less money? Put yourselves in his place.


here is the answer!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Bubba Dean said:


> One of the reasons ASA does come North is because of prior attendance. From 1997 to 2005 there have been several ASA shoots up North. Columbus Indiana in 1997, Turkeyville Michigan 2000-2002, Auburn Indiana 2003 and Harrisburg PA in 2005. What did all these Northern shoots have in common? They were the lowest attended shoots of the year........less than 750 shooters. When Mike can stay South and draw 1300 why would he want to travel further for less money? Put yourselves in his place.


that's why i wonder about the socalled "Southern Triple Crown". i attended a few of them and found attendance to be very low and the events not all that well run. have to wonder why ibo continues to mess with it.

and no, Bubba Dean, that was not before the invention of the automobile that i shot 'em.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

1monstertriumph said:


> So the asa puts metropolis last intentionally bc they know people will drive? Sounds like they don't care about their customers. Nobody likes the northern folk. Just like Ricky bobby say " if you ain't from the south the f you!"


sorry i missed that..where did you come up with that interpretation? i must have missed something somewhere in this thread.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

1monstertriumph said:


> Kinda a bad rep on northern Asa bc your facts maybe true but you neglected to say metropolis is the highest attendance all year and it is the furthest north? So there is a good reason. Asa won't come north bc they are from ga why would they want to drive further?


the metropolis shoot has a lot of local support including the Superman Classic that is sponsored by the community. paris also does a bang up job of promoting the shoot and that helps draw a big crowd. those two are my personal favorites because of the way archers are treated there. if you poll the folks who shoot a lot of asa pro ams i think you'll find others feel the same way.

now, if they just hadn't gone and burned down Willy Jack's...that might cut into attendance this year.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

1monstertriumph said:


> So the asa puts metropolis last intentionally bc they know people will drive? Sounds like they don't care about their customers. Nobody likes the northern folk. Just like Ricky bobby say " if you ain't from the south the f you!"


Not to burst your bubble.....But, ASA has probably more shooters that travel to shoots from other states then the IBO does ( IMPO) but then the proof is in the shooters that travel.  :darkbeer: so have a drink on us in the south


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

Bubba Dean said:


> One of the reasons ASA does come North is because of prior attendance. From 1997 to 2005 there have been several ASA shoots up North. Columbus Indiana in 1997, Turkeyville Michigan 2000-2002, Auburn Indiana 2003 and Harrisburg PA in 2005. What did all these Northern shoots have in common? They were the lowest attended shoots of the year........less than 750 shooters. When Mike can stay South and draw 1300 why would he want to travel further for less money? Put yourselves in his place.


go one level deeper, why was the attendance down? PA had conflicts, and why Indiana? Its a wonderful state and I lived there for 19 years, but pragmatically speaking, the population in the whole state is 4.5M and for anyone to go requires travel. Ohio is the 5th mostly densely popluated state in the country with 11.5M, with Columbus, OH being near dead center. Start near there and see where it goes. IBO made a great move for attendance by going to Cardinal Center this year.


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## 1monstertriumph (Aug 17, 2010)

Earlier in the thread it was said that metropolis draws more bc its the last shoot and more will go bc of soy so how bad would attendance be in April if it was there? And tim Asa does have a ton of people that travel! Bc of northerners! I hear all the southern people say all the time I'm not going bc it's ten hours. Ten hours for me is on the low side of my average. And tim explain why Florida is usually the lowest numbers of year? Maybe bc northern folk don't wanna drive 16 hours??? Maybe they will get the hint though. I'll still attend bc I love it but southern folk are one sided.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

For one if your gunna call me out by name....I would like to know who you are.... But, just so you know Florida has never been the lowest attened ASA event in the whole 19 years. I also, don't know what southernes you talk to also, because there is only one shoot for me that is under 3hrs and that is Florida. Trust me I would rather be there in April, instead of end of June..... I like going to where its cooler then here. LOL.... 

And, just maybe you all will get the hint....just MAYBE.....of course they say that the end of the world is coming on Dec 21, 2012....so who knows.


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## Tyler86 (Jun 16, 2012)

So Im not apart of the bickering. I do like the optimism for the sport and what we do, its great. I personally have never shot competitively except for a club 3d shoot. I think its great. The one thing I have a question about is the speed limit rule. Would somebody mind explaining to me what its purpose is in an accuracy competition? 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Tyler86 said:


> So Im not apart of the bickering. I do like the optimism for the sport and what we do, its great. I personally have never shot competitively except for a club 3d shoot. I think its great. The one thing I have a question about is the speed limit rule. Would somebody mind explaining to me what its purpose is in an accuracy competition?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Without a speed limit it could turn into an NBA basketball game where length is the predominate factor.


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## Bucks (Jul 27, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> Without a speed limit it could turn into an NBA basketball game where length is the predominate factor.


only for slam dunks. everyone still needs to shoot a jumper


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## Tyler86 (Jun 16, 2012)

So guys compete at multiple distances and speed effects accuracy how?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Tyler86 said:


> So guys compete at multiple distances and speed effects accuracy how?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


its all about physics.


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## Tmaziarz (Mar 16, 2008)

I was hopping the 3rd leg would have moved to Michigan. i can't belive they don't have one in Michigan.

Michigan would add a ton of archery and maybe spark intrest for archers to travel to all legs the next year.


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Kstigall said:


> Without a speed limit it could turn into an NBA basketball game where length is the predominate factor.


And how much do NBA players make in comparison to professional archers???


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> I was hopping the 3rd leg would have moved to Michigan. i can't belive they don't have one in Michigan.
> 
> Michigan would add a ton of archery and maybe spark intrest for archers to travel to all legs the next year.


It would be great and yes we have a bunch of shooters, but wouldn't be central located


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## brownstonebear (Apr 10, 2006)

Mike Gossard said:


> I want to express some thoughts that I have after this past weekends Erie shoot and the post / comments I have read on the social network sites. While I agree with the principles of the posts, I need to state for the record that I am a Life Time member of the IBO and have been shooting the IBO before the triple crown existed. My membership number is 3720 and I have many friends that are members before my joining the IBO.
> 
> It is funny how things always come around to which I will point to a time when those of us shooting would complain that when the pros were on the same courses as the amateurs the ranges would get all backed up and you would literally be on the course for hours. Hence the two-minute rule, lots of Friday shooters in & out, the pros shooting off site, and the peers only shooting together at the third leg. The mission of the IBO is to "Promote, Encourage, and Foster the Sport of Bowhunting". I remember when the ASA started and to be honest I have always thought of it as more as an archery competition with it's main focus on the "Competition". I have never shot at an ASA event, and I want to! but with only so many vacation days i have been fortunate to live within a 5 hours drive or less to all the Triple Crown events. They have been something I look forward to every year as a time to shoot with my buddies, hang out with my friends, rub elbows with the industry leaders and celebraties, and to introduce my wife, daughters, countless friends and children to the sport of bowhunting & competive archery. Even at 52 years old I hope that I will compete at the highest level possible and I still have the desire to be sponsered or shoot pro some day :tongue:, but the real reason I go is to have fun, meet up with the hundreds of friends I have made over the years, meet new friends, and sharpen my skills for the up coming hunting seasons.
> 
> ...



Good post Mike. I've ben a member for sometime now and too enjoy going and having a good time as well as seeing friends and meeting people who enjoy the sport as much as I do.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Tyler86 said:


> So guys compete at multiple distances and speed effects accuracy how?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Faster arrow has a greater margin of error when estimating the distance to the target. With a 280 fps speed limit everyone is at the same level playing field. Then it comes down to who can judge yardage and shoot and not who can shoot an 80 pound bow and a 31 inch draw length and get 350 fps.


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## Tyler86 (Jun 16, 2012)

Ok thats more of the kind of explanation that I was looking for

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## old44 (Jan 6, 2011)

With my bows I can travel the country and not have to worry.


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## caskins269 (Jul 31, 2008)

Wow, All this arguing over WHAT? If you don't like the way the IBO is ran, stay home and off the coarse. We don't need any bawl babies out there crying the blues. I have never shot an asa shoot, but I will continue to be a proud member of the IBO. We have fun, meet new and interesting people who are out there doing the same thing.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

caskins269 said:


> Wow, All this arguing over WHAT? If you don't like the way the IBO is ran, stay home and off the coarse. We don't need any bawl babies out there crying the blues. I have never shot an asa shoot, but I will continue to be a proud member of the IBO. We have fun, meet new and interesting people who are out there doing the same thing.


Good point. It's a philosophy that has been practiced by many businesses, organizations and local governments.





But it is also a good way for a business or organization to decline. American automobile makers had the "if you don't like our product, so what" attitude................. and the Asian made vehicles scorched us good. Many cities had a holier than thou attitude and now wonder why people left. Evolve or die..................


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> Faster arrow has a greater margin of error when estimating the distance to the target. With a 280 fps speed limit everyone is at the same level playing field. Then it comes down to who can judge yardage and shoot and not who can shoot an 80 pound bow and a 31 inch draw length and get 350 fps.



How many people actually shoot over 30" draw at 80lbs? i bet you not very many. The average shooter shoots between 55-65lbs, and the ones that win in the IBO, shoot between 290-310fps. We have enough companies making bows and arrow to have every body shooting 300fps, than your gonna say, oh he can shoot this arrow and that gives him line cutting edge where I can't. boo hoo!


Bottom line, if you don't practice, you not gonna win. The winners are putting the time in, not being politicians and lobbying to hurt another parties reputation.

This a hobby sport, very few will making a living at it. So go shoot your bow, meet some new people, and feel blessed that you can travel and shoot your bow a crossed this great country


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Bigjim67 said:


> This a hobby sport, very few will making a living at it. So go shoot your bow, meet some new people, and feel blessed that you can travel and shoot your bow a crossed this great country


by George, i think i'll do just that...good advice.


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## milkman38 (Mar 5, 2007)

without looking doesnt asa and ibo drawing about the same numbers the last couple of years?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

milkman38 said:


> without looking doesnt asa and ibo drawing about the same numbers the last couple of years?


ASA hosts seven shoots, IBO four. don't know if that makes any difference or not. just throwing that out.


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

carlosii said:


> ASA hosts seven shoots, IBO four. don't know if that makes any difference or not. just throwing that out.


IBO is seven also if you count the 3 southern 3 northern and 1 world


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

if you compare the totals from the seven ASA shoots to the seven hosted by IBO there is no comparison in terms of number of participants. again, i don't know what that means or what difference it makes. just sayin'.


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## rick prather (Aug 23, 2007)

Bubba Dean said:


> One of the reasons ASA does come North is because of prior attendance. From 1997 to 2005 there have been several ASA shoots up North. Columbus Indiana in 1997, Turkeyville Michigan 2000-2002, Auburn Indiana 2003 and Harrisburg PA in 2005. What did all these Northern shoots have in common? They were the lowest attended shoots of the year........less than 750 shooters. When Mike can stay South and draw 1300 why would he want to travel further for less money? Put yourselves in his place.


that is because we northern shooters will go south but the southern shooters will not go north so attendance is down.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

rick prather said:


> that is because we northern shooters will go south but the southern shooters will not go north so attendance is down.


thing is, the southern shooters do not have to go north to shoot since there's many opportunities for them to shoot close to home. i don't know what the problem is but i think the fact that the southern shooters are accustomed to the ASA format and don't cotton to the IBO format might have something to do with it. that might explain the low turnout for the STC.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Bigjim67 said:


> How many people actually shoot over 30" draw at 80lbs? i bet you not very many. The average shooter shoots between 55-65lbs, and the ones that win in the IBO, shoot between 290-310fps. We have enough companies making bows and arrow to have every body shooting 300fps, than your gonna say, oh he can shoot this arrow and that gives him line cutting edge where I can't. boo hoo!
> 
> 
> Bottom line, if you don't practice, you not gonna win. The winners are putting the time in, not being politicians and lobbying to hurt another parties reputation.
> ...


I was making an example for someone that was asking why the speed made a difference. I don't shoot the IBO on a national level, I have before and I don't now. I'm not boo hooing about anything, I was making an example for someone else.


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## J Name (Dec 30, 2005)

jimb said:


> Faster arrow has a greater margin of error when estimating the distance to the target. With a 280 fps speed limit everyone is at the same level playing field. Then it comes down to who can judge yardage and shoot and not who can shoot an 80 pound bow and a 31 inch draw length and get 350 fps.


dont you mean a lessor margin of error, also i beleive a short person can hold steady easier than us long armed people.the asa had this speed limit back when 285 was smokin out of a bow.


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## jack88 (May 22, 2010)

Wow, is this what the 3D shoots are all about down in the States? Sounds like I'm really missing out...............:thumbs_do


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

jack88 said:


> Wow, is this what the 3D shoots are all about down in the States? Sounds like I'm really missing out...............:thumbs_do


yep...kinda like those reality shows we beam north. come on down and jump in...water's fine.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

jack88 said:


> Wow, is this what the 3D shoots are all about down in the States? Sounds like I'm really missing out...............:thumbs_do


They're a great place to meet new archers and shoot. Your only seeing a small percentage who feel they get treated unfairly. Do you believe everything you read on here? Complainers are usually the most persistant. Judge for yourself attend a shoot bunch of great people at everyone. No orginazation is perfect just have fun and take these bash threads with a grain of salt. Most of the bashers are the same on every thread.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

carlosii said:


> thing is, the southern shooters do not have to go north to shoot since there's many opportunities for them to shoot close to home. i don't know what the problem is but i think the fact that the southern shooters are accustomed to the ASA format and don't cotton to the IBO format might have something to do with it. that might explain the low turnout for the STC.


Us mid central Illinois shooters can shoot close to home and we don't care what ya brung to run  Counted up once, 19 clubs and indoor ranges within one hour drive of my house.

Can't think of one club in my area that runs by ASA rules. We have several ASA Qualifiers, mostly too dang far to travel to and say we were fair to our family and billfold.
More or less wide open rules, our club just had 138 shooters for our regular monthly trophy shoot. No broadheads, no practice broadheads, no outserts, no range finders in competition. We've been averaging 140 ro 144 shooters for the past 2 or 3 years.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> They're a great place to meet new archers and shoot. Your only seeing a small percentage who feel they get treated unfairly. Do you believe everything you read on here? Complainers are usually the most persistant. Judge for yourself attend a shoot bunch of great people at everyone. No orginazation is perfect just have fun and take these bash threads with a grain of salt. Most of the bashers are the same on every thread.


Right on!

See, I work in a factory with 250-300 people and there is a few that wine and complain about everything, and everybody! These small percentage of people get management to change policy, you ever heard the saying; "the wheel that gets greased, is the wheel that wines the most" That's what these people are doing. 

* think that your cup as half full, instead of half empty*


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## rock77 (Apr 7, 2007)

Bigjim67 said:


> Right on!
> 
> See, I work in a factory with 250-300 people and there is a few that wine and complain about everything, and everybody! These small percentage of people get management to change policy, you ever heard the saying; "the wheel that gets greased, is the wheel that wines the most" That's what these people are doing.
> 
> * think that your cup as half full, instead of half empty*


It goes like this" the squeaky wheel gets the grease" you are from Mi.!!!!!!!


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## nickel shooter5 (Dec 26, 2009)

The squeaky wheel is the FIRST one replaced also...


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## cheaplaughs (Mar 27, 2005)

I've had a great time at every ibo I've shot at. Even after the long drive to Florida. Ohio next weekend can't wait


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

rock77 said:


> It goes like this" the squeaky wheel gets the grease" you are from Mi.!!!!!!!


Not always grease a good mechanic sometime replaces that squeaky wheel...


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

troxautoserv said:


> ABSOLUTLEY!!!! I do this to have FUN! If your not having fun it's not worth doing!


If it for fun why keep score? Rhinehart has an event just for fun. 
DB


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

db, so your saying you can't have fun and keep score, you continue to amaze me...


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Joseph McCluske said:


> db, so your saying you can't have fun and keep score, you continue to amaze me...


Its a tournament. It a competition between archers. It a contest! It something many take serious and dedicate time/money and practice.
Have your fun, I have fun right in the back yard shooting everyday. For you winning may not be of interest. Its a challenge against others. I understand this is a hard concept for you and amazes you. Concern yourself about you and not what I think. I have been doing this enough years to understand what it means to me and few others. If we keep score lets be 100% fair and thats where the fun happens. Knowing you did your best regardless how the outcome happens. I suggest a Rhinehart 100 for you, no scoring and no competition just shoot your bow and have a blast. Just have a fun time with others.
DB


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## zachbb42 (Dec 24, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> Its a tournament. It a competition between archers. It a contest! It something many take serious and dedicate time/money and practice.
> Have your fun, I have fun right in the back yard shooting everyday. For you winning may not be of interest. Its a challenge against others. I understand this is a hard concept for you and amazes you. Concern yourself about you and not what I think. I have been doing this enough years to understand what it means to me and few others. If we keep score lets be 100% fair and thats where the fun happens. Knowing you did your best regardless how the outcome happens.
> DB


So if you don't have fun when competing and practicing? Then why do you do a hobby that isn't fun? I know I'm competitive but I am still having fun and the day I'm not I won't be doing it anymore


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

zachbb42 said:


> So if you don't have fun when competing and practicing? Then why do you do a hobby that isn't fun? I know I'm competitive but I am still having fun and the day I'm not I won't be doing it anymore


Fun comes in many forms. I do have fun but it serious fun. Fun comes in different forms. Many often say where just having fun when a archer posts he been unfairly treated and call him a basher, instead of trying to comprehend what he saying. That's my beef with the fun word. 
DB


Do you want a fair tournament?


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## zachbb42 (Dec 24, 2008)

I compete with myself most of the time so if I shoot what I feel is a good score and someone beats me I don't automatically assume someone cheated. I would shake their hand and congratulate them on some great shooting not mumble under my breath that they probably cheated. I have never went to an IBO shoot and felt there was an unfair playing field. I guess I just enjoy a well set course instead of worrying about what other people are doing because it will eventually catch up with them.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

zachbb42 said:


> I compete with myself most of the time so if I shoot what I feel is a good score and someone beats me I don't automatically assume someone cheated. I would shake their hand and congratulate them on some great shooting not mumble under my breath that they probably cheated. I have never went to an IBO shoot and felt there was an unfair playing field. I guess I just enjoy a well set course instead of worrying about what other people are doing because it will eventually catch up with them.


Same here. Archery is a competition against yourself. Rules in IBO are set in place. Honestly no one can or should argue knowing how the rules are set in place going into the tournament. 3D always going to be controversial because of rules. I do understand members complaints. Never bothers me when someone posts honestly. Its a discussion forum.
DB


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## Joseph McCluske (Jun 8, 2005)

zachbb42 said:


> I compete with myself most of the time so if I shoot what I feel is a good score and someone beats me I don't automatically assume someone cheated. I would shake their hand and congratulate them on some great shooting not mumble under my breath that they probably cheated. I have never went to an IBO shoot and felt there was an unfair playing field. I guess I just enjoy a well set course instead of worrying about what other people are doing because it will eventually catch up with them.


Well said Zach, maybe some of the old sayings in life might hold true with 3d, like the guy that always says i'm not lying, I don't cheat, you know where that's going. I'm also competitive but it's still fun and win or loose I would never look at another competitor thinking he cheated. If it came to that point I would probably go back to fishing, some folks need to practice shooting more and typing less and their national scores will reflect how good they really are instead of always needing an excuse. When I walk off a shoot I try to reflect on how many points I left on the course and how I can eliminate them missed opportunities. Sometimes I feel I've shot my best and got beat by a better shooter on that day. Either way I had FUN, exercise and spent some valuable time with really good friends.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

archery IS fun!!! :frusty::frusty::crazy::crazy::icon_1_lol::icon_1_lol:


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