# A little more draw length out of a Diamond Razor?



## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

Hi, 

Got my girl friend a Diamond Razor, she is tall and has long arms for a girl, The Bow only goes to 29" but she really needs like a 31". Is there anyway to modify the bow to gain a few more inches? Or are we going to need to look for another low poundage bow with a longer draw?

Thanks, 
-Chad


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## Dthbyhoyt (Dec 4, 2004)

You might better look for a different bow .. 31" draw :mg:


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## MentalMisfit (Nov 15, 2011)

31" draw chick must be an amazon


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Tall, girl friend! 6 foot 3 inches or so?


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

Yeah, she is 6'1. Thanks for the advice guys. We got a really good deal on the Razor, I couldn't resist. It seemed like a real popular one for women and youth. Im not that familiar with whats on today's market, what is another popular women's bow that has a long draw length?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

6 foot 1 inches - I have her needing 29 inches of draw. What's on the bow, a loop? What type release? How is she anchoring?


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

There are a couple things you can do. Put a longer D loop. Untwist the cables maybe twice each and adjust her release out a bit more than normal.
Have her draw, anchor and you shoot a picture of her for us to see.

Besides, Sonny's right that 29 is in the ballpark. If it's short make a bigger D-Loop first. Anchor her first knuckle into the pocket behind her ear too.

I think she'll be ok.


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## 454casull (Jan 7, 2005)

threetoe said:


> There are a couple things you can do. Put a longer D loop. Untwist the cables maybe twice each and adjust her release out a bit more than normal.
> Have her draw, anchor and you shoot a picture of her for us to see.
> 
> Besides, Sonny's right that 29 is in the ballpark. If it's short make a bigger D-Loop first. Anchor her first knuckle into the pocket behind her ear too.
> ...


None of this will change the DL save for the cable bit but you twist them up not untwist, that makes it shorter; not a ton just a tweak.. 
Measure her from the middle of her sternum to the crease in her bow arm wrist, this will get you a very accurate DL reading, not 100% perfect but close enough to make the DL call. Now is she shooting release or fingers?


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

A pic...... Yeah right not for you perverts........ hahahah just kidding. She is shooting the Razor with it at 29" and with a D loop and a release, just not enough for her. She can shoot it but its not set up perfect for her. Just for kicks and giggles we measured her wingspan, she is 77". If you divide that by 2.5 like some of the experts say you get 30.8, so she needs to be shooting a 31. Im taller than her and my wingspan was only 75  She is a good shot, but would be allot better if we got her set up more proper. This was from the begining of the month..... her first buck.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

jeepguy88 said:


> A pic...... Yeah right not for you perverts........ hahahah just kidding. She is shooting the Razor with it at 29" and with a D loop and a release, just not enough for her. She can shoot it but its not set up perfect for her. Just for kicks and giggles we measured her wingspan, she is 77". If you divide that by 2.5 like some of the experts say you get 30.8, so she needs to be shooting a 31. Im taller than her and my wingspan was only 75  She is a good shot, but would be allot better if we got her set up more proper. This was from the begining of the month..... her first buck.
> 
> View attachment 1237211


I am 6'2".

My wingspan is 76-inches.

I am shooting a 29-inch draw length Mathews Apex 7.
The Apex 7 WAS drawing at 29.25-inches AMO DL...

and I had to build a custom string and cable set,
to bring DOWN the draw length 1/4-inch.

So,
with a 76-inch or 77-inch wingspan...

I don't believe that your girlfriend will necessarily shoot at her best potential,
with a 31-inch draw length bow.


So,
wingspan is 77-inches.

If you have your girlfriend measure the length of her bowhand...

from the tip of the middle finger,
to the bottom of the palm...where the palm and wrist meets together...

what is this length of her bow hand?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I believe nuts&bolts is correct. We are here and you and you girlfriend are they, so we really can't say for 100%. I quality picture with her at her comfortable full draw showing bow arm, grip, draw arm and anchoring would be nice. Well, several pictures would be okay too.


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

Ok, She might not need 31" but 29" is defently too short. The measurement of her bow hand is 7.5". How does the measurement of the hand help? Ok I will try and get some pics when when I can.


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## nag (Jun 13, 2007)

She looks like a real nice lady.....

Move her up to a full sized bow.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

jeepguy88 said:


> Ok, She might not need 31" but 29" is defently too short. The measurement of her bow hand is 7.5". How does the measurement of the hand help? Ok I will try and get some pics when when I can.


Coach Bernie has a new method to estimate the AMO draw length setting,
for a bow that should be a pretty good fit.


So,
when I use a tape measure,
to measure my total wingspan...I get 76-inches.

But,
when I have my jacket on, and zipped up,
and I put my bow arm horizontal...off to my left side
I get 37-inches from the zipper to the tip of my middle finger.

*(folks tend to stretch out the shoulders when taking the wingspan measurement).*

So,
my hand measured 8.0-inches,
from middle fingertip
to the bottom of the palm / wrist crease.

*37-inches (zipper on my zipped up jacket...to...end of middle fingertip on the bow hand) 
and
I subtract the length of my bow hand (8.0-inches)
and I get 29.0-inches...AMO Draw Length Estimate.*

This is the EXACT setting for my target bow (Mathews Apex 7)
where I had to build a custom bowstring and cable...
cuz my factory stock string was providing a DL setting 1/4-inch longer than the 29.0-inch cam (fixed DL cam).


So,
just for fun,
take a new measurement
from the zipper of a zipped up jacket
and have your girlfriend only hold up her bow arm,
and get the zipper to end of middle finger measurement.

Subtract 7.5-inches from this measurement,
and this should be a fairly good estimate
for the AMO draw length setting for a bow.


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

I was shooting 26.5" draw. 

After a buddy took pictures of me at full draw I looked at them and noticed I was leaning backwards just a bit. (as Sonny puts it "Bassackwards") 
I was not straight up and down when you look from the belt to neck.
I shortened my draw length 1/2" and also shortened my release so my hand wraps over the trigger - very deep.

The "FEEL" was totally different and I feel much more stable and solid.
The difference in my groups were amazing.! 

Take frontal pictures of her at full draw and let us see her posture.

Also...
1.) My wingspan it 66 1/4 "
2.) My height is 68"
3.) Knuckle to corner of mouth 25.5 
4.) 7" hand, 33" zipper to tip

Conclusion? All four methods of determining draw length conclude different lengths. Nuts and Bolts is where I am now and I feel and shoot best from there.

1.) 26.5
2.) 27.2
3.) 25.5
4.) 26.0


Not an exacting science.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Coach Bernie posted a new method to come up with an estimate of what AMO draw length setting for a bow
should work well.

This is a picture that I believe explains what Coach Bernie is suggesting.

1) put on a jacket that fits well, or a shirt with buttons

2) hold out your bow arm off to the side...arm in line with your two shoulders
....(this works better than holding out both arms, cuz folks tend to stretch too wide, when doing the wingspan measurement)
....when I do wingspan with two arms, I get 76-inches....
....when I just hold out my bow arm, I ONLY get 37-inches......HALF of 76-inches is 38-inches.....holding out just the bow arm, and measuring to the zipper appears MORE accurate.

3) now, measure from the zipper to the end of the middle fingertip of the bow arm
....in my case, I only get 37-inches

4) now, measure from the wrist / base of the palm to the end of the middle finger tip
....in my case, I get 8-inches

5) now, subtract the length of the bow hand (8-inches for my example) from the zipper measurement (37-inches for my example
....37-inches minus 8-inches = 29-inches AMO draw length for the bow.

Perfect match to where I have my target bow adjusted, for draw length.


I am 6'2"
Wingspan measurement with BOTH arms stretched sideways = 76-inches.
Using the 2.5 formula (Wingspan divided by 2.5 = 30.4-inches......nowhere close to where I have my bow setup at for Draw Length)

Using Coach Bernie's new DL estimating method...
measure from the zipper to the end of the middle fingertip (bow hand)...
and then 
subtract bow hand length (bottom of palm to end of middle fingertip)...

I get an EXACT agreement with my target bow AMO DL setting.


Now this assumes several things:


a) bow arm is fully extended to within 99% of your reach capacity

b) end of arrow shaft / beginning of nock lands on the side of your face, directly UNDER the front curvature of your eyeball (directly under eyeglass frame and NOT behind your eyeball)

c).....so, if you LIKE having the string touch your nose, on a SHORT ATA bow, then....this estimating method will NOT work for you.


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

Thanks guys, been super busy with work, but I will remeasure and take some pics of her form this weekend  thanks for all the help!


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

So with a zip up jacket, from the zipper to her wrist was 31.5" Here is a pic of her and her tiny killer bow.


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## detroyer340 (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm no expert but her bow arm is bent way to much, I am 6"2 wingspan is 76" = 30.4 I shoot a 30" draw on my z7 and it's comfortable


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

No one believed me that she had as 30-31" draw.....lol, so what is a good bow, in the $300 to $400 range new or used, that has 30-31" draw that is 40-50 lbs? She would like to get an elk tag for this year and need a 50lb bow for that, kind of want to start looking for a new one pretty soon.


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## nag (Jun 13, 2007)

Holy Cow....is she ever really straightened her arms out, you might not get her into any bow.

I suspect the peep is not in the right position either becasue if the way her head and upper body lean slighty to the rear...
I see this all the time with the kids.

All this should fix itself when she gets into the proper D.L. which will most likely be 31".
Make lenght adjustments from there after using a D-loop in conjunction with either a short or long release.

The Scott Wildcat is a fine example of a shorter release, while the Scott Little Goose goes the other way.
Both are well make, amd fit a ladies hand without being bulky.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

jeepguy88 said:


> So with a zip up jacket, from the zipper to her wrist was 31.5" Here is a pic of her and her tiny killer bow.
> 
> View attachment 1249733
> 
> ...


Since the zipper to wrist measurement comes out to 31.5-inches...
then,
I suggest looking for a 31.5-inch DL bow,
and...

experiment with d-loop length,
to position her release hand...

longer d-loop length to position her release hand farther back on her face
shorter d-loop lenght to position her release hand further forwards on her face.


http://www.hoyt.com/compound_bows/details/rampage+xt

The Rampage XT Long Draw goes up to 31-inches of draw length.


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## MentalMisfit (Nov 15, 2011)

Bear Encounter goes upto 32" and has an msrp of $299 should fit the bill perfectly for her. And be a slight upgrade from the razors edge.


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

Nuts&Bolts, Thanks for the help! We will definitely look into the HOYT. Might take a peek at the bear as well. Thanks again for all the help guys!


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## threetoe (May 13, 2011)

Like I noted...make a large d-loop.

Thanks Nuts&Bolts... At least they'll listen to you.


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## jeepguy88 (Jun 8, 2011)

We are going with a BEAR Carnage! Its on the way!


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