# Horizon Pro - How "bad" is it? (equipment recommendation)



## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Hello, 
I will be starting with archery during the warmer months. I love how Hoyt Horizon risers look and I was really interested in them, but wherever I look everyone suggests SF+ or other riser in that price cathegory, because Horizon has a lot of limitations. 
Since Horizon Pro has the same looks, I was thinking of getting that one, however I cannot find any info on if it is worth or, again, if it is better to look elsewhere.

From the Sticky:
Level of archer: Begginer - I know I could go cheap, but I d like to pick something that will last a few years until and if I ll go for the tops.
Distance and scores - Olympics archery
6.4 ft, 190 lb, 25 y/o male, RH, Left eye dominant


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Its not bad as such, just far too expensive for what it is. On the other hand, SF Forged and Forged+ are fantastic, fantastic risers for the price they are.

Considering the prices, in some places with similar sum of money that Horizon Pro costs, you can get your hands on Best Zenit, which is one of the best risers ever made. If you take the badge out of equation it really is a no-brainer.

In that similar price range Mybo Elite is a strong competitor. It is rebranded Merlin Elite, I had one of those back in the day and it was fantastic riser. Club mate I sold it to still shoots it.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Z - 

There's nothing "wrong" the the Horizon (I own one), except for what zal said in his first line. 
The Forged + also some with a serviceable plunger and rest to get you started.
Not really sure what the difference is between the Horizon and the "Pro". 
It's a very flexible riser and I believe the Forged + is a little stiffer, but both are single beam designs. 

Personally, I like the factory grip on the Horizon better than the SF, but that's just personal preference.

Viper1 out.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

I believe it may be so bad that Kathleeen Stevenson has not only shot one for years, but attended the indoor world championships with one. 

In other words, the vast majority of archers will not be "better" than that riser.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

The only problem the Horizon risers have is the little bitty set screws used in the limb pocket adjustment system (side-to-side). Easy to strip, especially when using cheap quality allen wrenches. And the relatively high cost. Else, seems like a fine riser and should last a long time....

DM


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

> Not really sure what the difference is between the Horizon and the "Pro".


The Pro has "pro series tiller bolts", pivoting limb bolts.


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

dmacey said:


> The only problem the Horizon risers have is the little bitty set screws used in the limb pocket adjustment system (side-to-side).


I am not sure what it means really and how high impact it has - it says "Pro Series Limb Bolts" in the PRO description, so if this is it, seems like it is "fixed" there.


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## R&B (Oct 4, 2006)

Arrowwood said:


> The Pro has "pro series tiller bolts", pivoting limb bolts.


Horizon Pro also has more color options (anodized colors). The standard Horizon is only offered painted (fewer color options).

-R&B


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

ZickZak said:


> I am not sure what it means really and how high impact it has - it says "Pro Series Limb Bolts" in the PRO description, so if this is it, seems like it is "fixed" there.


The pro model still has the tiny screws, so it's got the same problem. And I say "problem". As for how big of a problem it is, oh... it would influence my decision to buy one maybe... .0005%? or .0007%? In other words, as long as you use a good hardened allen tool on it and don't try to crank them down adjusting it when the bow is braced or something like that, it would probably be a non-issue. 

I only mentioned it as an item that someone who does their own maintenance might want to take into account if it's something they might care about. 

I think the only difference between the Pro and the regular riser is the nicer finish available on the former. Apart from that, though I'm a Win&Win guy on olympic recurve, it's still a riser one could shoot for a lifetime....

DM


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## bruce_m (Jan 23, 2012)

The Pro also has the wood grip.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

So the "new and improved" limb bolts and fancy colors are worth the price difference?

Viper1 out.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Like I said. You definetely don't get bang for your buck. The problem with whole Horizon thing are those tiny tiny set screws which are very easy to mangle unless you are careful, like some above have already pointed out. Plus I'd rather have the old version limb bolts.

There is a clear gap in the market in light-medium weight bows, thats why so many female archers end up using entry-mid level bows like Horizon Pro and SF Forged etc. Back in the day Winact used to be the bow to pick but even that is these days about 1300 grams. Horizon Pro is just under 1100 grams and there lies its draw for women and youth archers. Considering the original poster is a big dude, about similar height as me, I'd definetely stay clear of it, it's just too flexible if you start pulling proper poundage through it.

I set up bunch of Horizons for club bows back when they first came out and have been shooting them quite a bit, while being on break from "proper" poundages. It's not a bad bow, but it just feels rough and cheap. I've tried Horizon Pro and it's a bit more refined, finish is definetely nicer, but essentially it feels pretty much the same.

The original SF Forged on the other hand felt just like Yamaha, so it was instant favourite by many. Haven't tried the new one that much but plenty of people I know have, and they don't have a bad word.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

If you have the money and are willing to pay a little extra to have the Hoyt logo on the side of the bow they are perfectly fine.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Hoyt regular Horizon is a good riser. The same price range as the SF Forged + - but the SF comes with a plunger and arrow rest, and so is about a $30-$40 better value. That $40 buys a tab, a quiver, and an armguard - a persuading difference for many people. 

Hard to convince me that another $180 for the "Pro" is a good value ... unless you just really WANT it for whatever reason.


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Viper1 said:


> So the "new and improved" limb bolts and fancy colors are worth the price difference?





lksseven said:


> Hard to convince me that another $180 for the "Pro" is a good value ... unless you just really WANT it for whatever reason.


That is what I am thinking... I hoped pro would have some other improvements than the looks. I like the looks of the bow, that the limbs start somewhat on top of the riser, not "in" it. That is all. Whether it is Hoyt/W&W/SF is not really important to me. I cant try them out anywhere around here, so I need to go the online way.


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## JimB1 (Feb 18, 2013)

zal said:


> Its not bad as such, just far too expensive for what it is


+1 to this. I almost got one a couple of years back but after researching a bit found that there are several others that are better bang for the buck. I ended up with my Winex and have no regrets but the price on the Winact VT at Lancaster is a steal right now.

-Jim


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Z - 

I've had the std Horizon for a number of years. I've never had a problem with the limb bolts, "tiny" lateral screws or anything else. I just found that I really don't like shooting risers that flexible. It's pretty much relegated to a "formaster" bow at this point. 

BTW - when I bought mine, my local range had them for $209, so I couldn't pass it up, but that was a while back.
You might do worse, but you can certainly do better, $$$ wise.

Viper1 out.


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Viper1 said:


> BTW - when I bought mine, my local range had them for $209, so I couldn't pass it up, but that was a while back.
> You might do worse, but you can certainly do better, $$$ wise.


Yea I guess. Ill look around, see if I perhaps find some place that has them and hopefully compare with something else. Other than that seems like W&W is place to go, or Kaya3. Either way, I ll be checking out the deals and decide at the time. 
Thanks a lot for the help.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Mybo wave is a nice riser in the same general price range as the sf forged plus and regular horizon. If you want to go to the price of the horizon pro you can't go wrong with the Winex.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

bobnikon said:


> Mybo wave is a nice riser in the same general price range as the sf forged plus and regular horizon.


That definetely seems like a steal. Good weight, solid construction and as far as I know, has similar hardware to old Merlin Elite bows, which was properly bullet proof.

I've had plenty of Merlin bows in the past, both recurve and compound, and never ever had any problems.


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## rat4go (Apr 14, 2011)

bobnikon said:


> Mybo wave is a nice riser in the same general price range as the sf forged plus and regular horizon. If you want to go to the price of the horizon pro you can't go wrong with the Winex.


....or if you're fond of the Hoyt name and are patient, a used GMX will cost you about what a new Horizon Pro would. Having owned both, a used but well cared for GMX is an EASY choice over a new Horizon Pro for the same cash.


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## fango0000 (Mar 16, 2011)

Thought Id chime in with something relevant to me which is that the hoyt horizon/excel risers don't have a bushing for top or bottom riser dampers. I shoot with a unicorn top damper and one of my students with a horizon wanted to try it but he couldnt since there wasn't a place to mount it. 

As for as quality control my bet is also with the Forged plus. Ive had 2 students come through with horizon risers were twisted (one slightly and one fairly bad). I tested them with my wiawis and veracity limbs just to eliminate the possibility of wonky cheap limbs. In the end the risers still shot fine but yeah


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## larry tom (Aug 16, 2012)

bobnikon said:


> Mybo wave is a nice riser in the same general price range as the sf forged plus and regular horizon. If you want to go to the price of the horizon pro you can't go wrong with the Winex.


ZickZac. +1 on the Winex, or even the WinAct riser. Same price as the Horizon Pro, but IMHO, they are both superior risers. Regards, LT


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## beefstew27 (Mar 18, 2008)

The Horizon is forged (meaning melted metal poured into a mold) and is slightly less adjustable with older limb bolts and a slightly different pocket adjustment system. The Pro is laser cut from a single block of aluminum, giving it much more precision and consistency and quality. It also has slightly nice limb bolts and an easier to adjust pocket system. Yes the SF Forged and + come with a clicker...one that I've never seen last more than a few months.


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## Black46 (Oct 16, 2013)

ZickZak said:


> the limbs start somewhat on top of the riser, not "in" it. That is all. Whether it is Hoyt/W&W/SF is not really important to me.


If you like this look (and to be honest, that's about as good a reason to pick a riser as any at this point), a couple other options...

- Spigarelli Revolution is actually cheaper than the Horizon and Forged+ at Alternative Services in the UK, but they have a long lead time. (Perris Archery also in the UK usually keeps some in stock, but more expensive) I had a Forged+ and a Revolution and kept the Revolution.

- PSE X-Appeal is a fantastic riser, but even used ones are typically over your budget. The previous model, the X-factor, also was "pocket-less" and can be had in your price range.

The Revolution and X-Appeal are unique visually in other ways that some like and some don't.

Paul


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Okay well it turns out there is a solid shop nearby. The guy there told me to go shoot in the club for about 10-30 lessons. I cant quote 100%, but from what I understood - with my build, I should look into something full carbon like RCX-100 at least, since the Horizon supports less weight(?) - or something like that. Basically he said horizons are not good enough for a decent archer, unless they are a woman or a child.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

beefstew27 said:


> The Horizon is forged (meaning melted metal poured into a mold) and is slightly less adjustable with older limb bolts and a slightly different pocket adjustment system. The Pro is laser cut from a single block of aluminum, giving it much more precision and consistency and quality. It also has slightly nice limb bolts and an easier to adjust pocket system. Yes the SF Forged and + come with a clicker...one that I've never seen last more than a few months.


...i believe you meant the Horizon is "cast" not "forged"...


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

ZickZak said:


> Okay well it turns out there is a solid shop nearby. The guy there told me to go shoot in the club for about 10-30 lessons. I cant quote 100%, but from what I understood - with my build, I should look into something full carbon like RCX-100 at least, since the Horizon supports less weight(?) - or something like that. Basically he said horizons are not good enough for a decent archer, unless they are a woman or a child.


Well. That's mostly bullsh*t for a start.

There is definetely no need for a full carbon bow, I think he's wanting to sell you one though as they go with a bigger markup. I'm of similar build and I've had perhaps 20-25 different risers, only one of which was carbon (and I hated it). Plus make sure that he's not going to dump you with too heavy limbs to start with if he's talking about riser not taking enough weight right now.

At your build, I'd be looking 70" bow, with perhaps something like 24-26# nominal weight limbs, as you will be pulling them about 32" so you'll probably get at least 32-34# on fingers.


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

zal said:


> Well. That's mostly bullsh*t for a start.
> 
> There is definetely no need for a full carbon bow, I think he's wanting to sell you one though as they go with a bigger markup. I'm of similar build and I've had perhaps 20-25 different risers, only one of which was carbon (and I hated it). Plus make sure that he's not going to dump you with too heavy limbs to start with if he's talking about riser not taking enough weight right now.
> 
> At your build, I'd be looking 70" bow, with perhaps something like 24-26# nominal weight limbs, as you will be pulling them about 32" so you'll probably get at least 32-34# on fingers.


It was meant for once I am somewhat decent. At the begining he said horizon is fine, but he said that eventually I ll be pulling 40-45, so I should go full carbon or one of the high ends. The limbs he talked about were some begginer ones, around 100 dollars.
He adviced me to go to the club for a few lessons, until I develop a skill and know the equipment / what I want, so I think he isnt gonna scam me or what not.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Z -

He may not be "scamming" you per se, he may actually believe what he said. That's an even bigger problem, since equipment envy never really ends, and companies spend lots of money to see that it doesn't. 

The Horizon/SF Forged can handle 45# without breaking a sweat. The only issue will be if YOU like a lively riser at that weight. Some people do, others don't and the jury is still out on the the carbon riser thing. None of the ones I've shot impressed my and most of my students who bought them got rid of them fairly quickly. IMHO, carbon has it's place, just not in risers, so far. 

BTW - just for the record, he'll make a lot more money by giving you lessons, than he ever will by bow markups .Just the way it is.

Viper1 out.


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Viper1 said:


> BTW - just for the record, he'll make a lot more money by giving you lessons, than he ever will by bow markups .Just the way it is.


I figured 10 hours for 50 dollars might be good. I would get to use some bows and I might see what I like and what I dont. 

I havent really found the RCX-100 info anywhere, so I doubt people buy them.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Z - 

A friend/student of mine has them. 
I'd pass. They seem to have a lot more vibration than they should (and yes, the bow was set up correctly). 

Seriously, the $100 SF Axiom + limbs will get you pretty high, score wise, and you will be replacing them for heavier limbs within a year or so. To get better limbs, you're going to be in the $400-500 range and at this point, there's just no reason. 

Viper1 out.


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Viper1 said:


> Z -
> 
> A friend/student of mine has them.


By them you mean the limbs? I was speaking about the riser. http://win-archery.com/products/rcx-100-riser


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Winact or Winex are much, much better risers IMO. You take your chances with cheaper carbon bows. I've seen good ones, but I've seen very rough and twisted ones too.

Winact has been available in different guises from late 90's, every model version probably has taken buckets of WC/olympic medals (at least the older ones did aplenty and I've seen new ones in hands of pretty good shooters). It has a very distinct feeling, like all forged risers have, and that is something quite a few like (me included, I've had bunch of forged bows).

When you go to that level, it's no longer option of getting a "better" riser to replace it, there really isn't much difference between those two and any more expensive riser. But in the end it all boils down to what you like the look of.


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Yea thats why I figured going to the 10 hours would be a good idea. Perhaps I ll get to at least hold a bow, unlike now deciding based on the online reviews.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

ZickZak said:


> I figured 10 hours for 50 dollars might be good. I would get to use some bows and I might see what I like and what I dont.
> 
> I havent really found the RCX-100 info anywhere, so I doubt people buy them.


I have two of them, though I probably have the only 2 that Win&Win have produced for the last 5 years lol. But I don't think I'll ever need anything else, I plan to be buried with both of them. It's an impeccable riser and absolutely brutally strong, but seems not to be very popular for some reason. I suspect a) the very light weight and b) competition from Win&Win's own more expensive risers. 

But the overall bang/buck on the RCX-100 is the highest I could find anywhere even from Win&Win's other risers, so that's what I settled on...

DM


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## ZickZak (Mar 13, 2016)

Yea I heard its rather lightweight but mainly that the grip is small, so if one likes bigger risers it is somewhat hard to enjoy.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I believe it uses the same grip as all their other risers, but I may be wrong about that. Otherwise, I believe it shares the same geometry as their higher end risers and is in most respects pretty much the same in terms of hardware, etc. Like I said, it's impeccably made and I couldn't find any flaws in my two whatsoever. For me it was a way to get a high end carbon W&W riser for almost half the price and at a lighter mass weight too.... I'd get one before W&W stops making them tho lol.

DM


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