# Do we need changes to Ontario deer regulations?



## RedneckFoodie (Nov 12, 2019)

How many deer do you see daily? Where I live in Simcoe county, the entire herd seems to be primarily nocturnal. There may be very few areas where you might get a sighting in the summer. 
As far as the numbers and tag calculations go, I think the Ontario government is trying to get a better grasp on the herd numbers with the mandatory reporting by early Jan. Even if a hunter didnt shoot a deer, they have to report on sightings. 
I agree that shooting young bucks is silly thing to do but there is not much one can do to change mindsets, other than trying on each individual basis. 

Additionally, if you want to affect the deer herd in your area, one needs to control the daylight feeding during hunting season and provide sufficient cover, if one is fortunate enough to own land that is. Provide cover and provide fall / hunting season long food. That way the small 4 pointers can be pushed to the next age group the following year or two.
I havent heard what has come from the requested input, but to me, it seems that we as Canadians dont do enough on our own steam to try assist the deer herd to advance animals through to the next age group. 
In terms of doe tags, where I live, I see a few does on my property, once or twice a year. No bucks, however, from my research, a mature buck is a very cautious animal and does not expose himself during daylight hours unless there is sufficient cover - so I need to still do an inventory with a camera. 
I am yet to harvest a deer myself. Time and life circumstances with work travel etc have prevented, but I hope to spend this coming summer making changes to my property and adding features that make deer feel comfortable during the hunting season, during daylight hours. 
Just my 2 cents.
RNF


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## muskykris (Jun 2, 2009)

Thanks for your response 
I’ve mainly done this to try to get some involvement on this Canadian thread.
Was just trying to get an idea if people think we have an ideal system or if it needs a change.
I think the reporting is a good thing.
And It’s not my intention to try to tell you what you should and shouldn’t shoot.

To answer your question 
Number of deer varies for me depending on property.
One stand last October I had 4 bucks cross within range one morning, next time a doe, next time nothing.
This year that same property but a different stand has been 1-2 does and a spike the few times I’ve sat there
On a better property last year this time I took a doe out of 13.
There doesn’t seem to be a shortage of deer around here.

I do as you suggest, change the mind set one at a time. Mine was changed and I’ve been able to change a few.

I agree most bigger deer don’t move till near dark.


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## RedneckFoodie (Nov 12, 2019)

Hi Kris
I think its a great thread for discussion, also, I didnt take it as your intention that you were trying to tell ppl what to shoot....

All I can say is that i dont believe we in Canada (government and citizens alike) do enough for our wildlife population. I look at the numbers in the northern US states, who have winters just as hard as Ontario and they harvest more deer each year, than the Ontario government thinks we have in Ontario. The highest harvest number I saw in Michigan was 480K in 1 year!!!!! 
I think the problem is broad and varied. 

Local counties manage local forests for boardfeet to generate revenue. Not enough clear cut takes place and the average city dweller is horrified when they see clear cuts, not realizing that hardwood regeneration and scrubby brush is ideal for wildlife - from grouse to rabbits to whitetails.

Secondly, insufficient studies on numbers in areas to determine tag numbers. 
Thirdly, insufficient culling of predators - specifically Coyote - where I live at least. 
And I think fourth would be not enough hunters putting in food to help the deer through the winters.
I did hear of a nice concept online where property owners get together and form a co-op where all those property owners dont harvest young animals during the season. That way, everyone is onboard and progressing animals to the next age group, which helps ensures everyone has a quality hunt. 
I myself would not shoot a doe here at this point in time, but that would definitely change in future once I see numbers improve. 
I agree with you for sure - shoot a nice doe rather than a small 4 pointer, especially if there is an abundance of does. 
I would be interested in hearing what others have to say too.....


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I own and manage my own land to shoot good bucks,we usually take 1 a year and try and let the small bucks and does go,I also have land that backs up to the back of mine that we hunt solely and do the same.The issue is,everybody else around the area are gun hunters and shoot whatever they want,I really do not care as the deer bed on my land but if the mnr wants to improve the herd they could make it earn a buck tag,or from what I have seen the last 3-4 years.Make it does only for 1 year the buck to doe ratio is at least 70-30 %.Or even antler restrictions! 

I also would like to see them reduce the rifle season to one week and take it out of the rut,maybe back to October.I am not a gun hater as I hunt occasionally with them and do kill a few but the "rifle" hunter mentality of shoot it if it's brown is a main cause of the smaller bucks and deer herd being depleted...imo...I really have no reason to believe the mnr will or can fix it,just look at what they have accomplished with the moose herd and draw system....I am almost ready to spend my money in other provinces and the usa for "hunts".....


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I can remember n 2005-2008 sitting in my stands and having 40 some deer go by me in the morning,then they decided to give multiple tags out and the herd in our area took a huge hit,ran into an older man who went to school with my dad and he told my father,they must want us to shoot them all,they gave us the tags....My dad told him,we are our own mnr and can control what we shoot.I am not complaining as I have access to great hunting but have definitely seen a drastic down turn the last 4 years and over the last 15 years a huge drop off.

On some of our other land,we are surrounded by about 30 other rifle hunters spread out into 4 other gangs,they slaughter everything they can,hopefully legally.I apply each year for a doe tag,I try and use it on a nice buck.I personally would like to see them put in either earn a buck tag,no bucks for a year or antler restrictions in 64a.....I would be ok with anything as I just want to hunt and can conform to any of the regs.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

Hopefully they can get the moose herd and tag system sorted out first as It seems to be on its last lifeline.

I like the thread and would love to see some changes to our season,tag/draw and hopefully for the better, for whitetail and moose,also would like to see them start fall bear season in mid august not early September when all the bears are on the crops down here,instead of catering to the outfitters up north.


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## muskykris (Jun 2, 2009)

I was hoping the all mighty would chime in lol

I agree, there should be one of the above things you mentioned implemented.

Gun should go back to 1 week if they keep muzzleloader 
3 weeks with firearms is a bit much. I generally do all 3 weeks myself but could easily live with 2.

Years ago when those surplus tags came out they should have been for antlerless only.

Let’s not go down the moose rabbit hole
If u want start a 2nd thread and we can bash the mnr over the moose draw there.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I have no use for the "rifle" hunting mentality of the majority of them.They are the first ones to complain about no deer around after slaughtering everything for the last 20 years.I really think our mnr can't manage our herds or our seasons properly. I would like to see some changes,I am not sure the new tag system or reporting system is a step in the right direction,I think it was implemented because they have no money to be on foot in the woods,been 14 years since I spoke with a warden in the woods,I did run I to two coming in from fishing a few summers ago at the boat launch on the Rideau,he basically told me they were broke then.


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

I like muzzleloader season where it is,and most time during gun season I either carry my .50cal or my bow.I would love to see rifle back to one week and in October,I admit I am selfish bow hunter but I also care about the herd.


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## RedneckFoodie (Nov 12, 2019)

Have either of you seen increases in the numbers at all in your respective areas?
And do either of you know why the increase in tags was handed out by the government 15 odd years back?


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## Michael Myers (Nov 13, 2008)

There has not been an increase in the area that I have hunted since I was a kid,It has went down hill the last 15 years,we have had a few up and down years but the last 4 years have been slowly decreasing,I see a ton more coyotes then I did years back and have shot a handful with my bow and .50 cal the last few years.

As for the surplus tags,the farmers and Insurance companies were no doubt the ones that were pushing to thin the herd drastically.

All we have to do is knock on doors where I hunt and my camp is and the farmers either say yes,you can hunt here or,sorry someone else is already here. I have never been told "No" because they do not want hunters on their land,I have access to a lot of property and also have my own.I am not going to sugar coat it,We manage the deer on our land,or try too but as for property we do not own, we take our meat for the freezer from them,we take only what we eat,nothing more.

I still have my doe tag in my pocket,and in total we still have 4/5 tags as I shot a buck a month ago hunting with a close friend who only gets out a few times a year,he was happy to have half a deer for his family.

I have let 50 does go by at least this year,and only had two bucks within bow range.I have found this as bad a year as I have seen and last year was not much better.

I have 6 days off starting Tuesday and plan on filling my tag,I am going to take the first deer that gives me a broadside or quartering away shot within 30 yards whether It be a 10 pt,spiker or mature doe with no fawns because I want the meat and I have spent a ton of time freezing my backside off.


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## RedneckFoodie (Nov 12, 2019)

Ive been in Canada 6 years now, my wife and I drove through Michigan 2 years back and I saw more deer dead on the side of the road than I had in the previous 4 years living in 76A.
I said to my wife on that trip "I bet the insurance companies have lobbied the government to increase tags so that they dont have the car accident issues..."
Hadnt actually thought about it from the insurance of crops perspective. Either way, its annoying. 
@Grizz - good luck with the doe tag. Hope you get a nice fat plump one for the freezer.


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## skull (Nov 29, 2005)

I started hunting deer in London are in the early 90s
Lots deer, no problem seeing 20+ a day 
Late 90s early 2000 thinks starting going down hills fast 
At one point you could buy 6 tags 
And the worst was when the start giving permission to hunt in wildwood, 
After 2005 was my last time hunting in Ontario 
I do my hunting in the mind-west USA 
What has to be happening here in Ontario Is this 
Only 1 tag 
Cross bow season for 3 weeks, mid October to mind November 
Antlers restriction 4 points minimum one side 
Only 1 week shoot gun, season not during the rut, second week December 
Hardest fines for poachers 
Mandatory harvest report within 24 hours 
Good luck


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## Quiggly Quiggly (Oct 6, 2014)

I hunted in area 61 with 10 other guys, and only 3 deer were seen out of 16 days. 1 Doe, 1 Fawn, 1 buck. not sure whats going on. seen 14 Elk though.


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## muskykris (Jun 2, 2009)

I took a good 8 point this year but I didn’t see many deer in 65

Actually the last few weeks (after I started this) were pathetic compared to years past.
I was surprised with the cold weather and snow early that I didn’t see more deer in my yarding spots.
Lots of people saying they didn’t see much
Didn’t think the population was possibly down from last year till the end of the season.


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## IDD65 (Jun 18, 2012)

64B I was out almost every weekend from Sept to Christmas and did not see one deer aside from farmers fields nearby and all does there. Have seen 8-10 pointers in prior years. Took a doe in 2018 and got 45 lbs of meat from her and it was delicious. I hunt to harvest meat not to show off a rack when I’m done...


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## IDD65 (Jun 18, 2012)

I also noted the acorn yield seemed low to me. Would that affect bucks showing up?


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## floydfreak (Jul 11, 2020)

RedneckFoodie said:


> Ive been in Canada 6 years now, my wife and I drove through Michigan 2 years back and I saw more deer dead on the side of the road than I had in the previous 4 years living in 76A.
> I said to my wife on that trip "I bet the insurance companies have lobbied the government to increase tags so that they dont have the car accident issues..."
> Hadnt actually thought about it from the insurance of crops perspective. Either way, its annoying.
> @Grizz - good luck with the doe tag. Hope you get a nice fat plump one for the freezer.


I've hunted 76D for over 10 years now and definitely seen a decrease in day activity. I still see lots of sign but I am not actually seeing them. Hunted almost every weekend from opener to the last day and had only 1 encounter where i heard a doe call to a buck and the buck answered. 

Honestly I have no idea what the answer is. In not so past years hunting in a party of 3 for a week we were pretty much guaranteed a deer. It sure looks like the herd has gone nocturnal and I not sure the government can really do anything to change that. If I was seeing sign I would have a different opinion but as it sits I don't think this is a tag issue. 

I've also seen and lived through the rise and falls of the moose tags. That's a whole other can of worms.


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