# NO Lens!!



## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

When I first I started shooting open class and up untill just yesterday I have shot a lens with an up pin and shot very well. Most of this year has been a strugle for me. I have not shot the scores I am used to and not nearly the X count. I feel like the lens was showing the small amount of movement when I was holding on the target and this was then causeing target panic becasue I felt the need to rush my shots. I have herd a lot about the pros not shooting a lens and decided to give it a try. I figured what can it hurt there has to be a reason. Yesterday I decided to give it a shot and I would have to say the results suprised me. I shot 144 on 15 targets and shot 6xs (more than I shot at bedford). I was a lot more relaxed and felt as if I could hold the bow all day. This then resulted in a more consistant shot than I have felt all year as well as a better score. 

I was looking to see if anyone has experianced the same thing or has had the same troubles in the past. I am thinking of sticking with it for awahile and seeing how I do over the long run.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

I did it a couple of months ago, noticed I was loosing points on long targets, felt like I was fighting the pin...no matter what I did with stabilizer configs, I couldnt get it to settle. I took my lense out and found the points I was lacking. I have some lenses for sale!


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

I was loosing points on short and long targets. I was all over the 10 line or outside of it not in the center. Last night I shot all but one of my tens inside out and 4 of my 11s the same. I think it is a change that may help me.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

You may want to look at how your stabilizer is set up...GRIV had a great article on how to do it right, I did it and its amazing
http://www.archerylive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3894


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

Its funny you post this. This article was the one I used befor finishing my set-up for the year an getting it done rite. Not saying that a properly set up bow will not increase scores but I am a firm believer that it is consistant shot exacution along with this that is golden. The bow I have set up for 3d is a paper killing machine. On paper targets its a smoker and shoots insane groups at 50 + yards. My biggest problem was getting it to appear steady on foam. I could hold it all day on paper but was having issues with it on the course. Now that the lens is gone its rock solid on both. It seems to have cured my target panic that was caused exagerated movement due to the lens and anyone who shoots knows target panic is the biggest reason people dont shoot well.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

A.j. said:


> Its funny you post this. This article was the one I used befor finishing my set-up for the year an getting it done rite. Not saying that a properly set up bow will not increase scores but I am a firm believer that it is consistant shot exacution along with this that is golden. The bow I have set up for 3d is a paper killing machine. On paper targets its a smoker and shoots insane groups at 50 + yards. My biggest problem was getting it to appear steady on foam. I could hold it all day on paper but was having issues with it on the course. Now that the lens is gone its rock solid on both. It seems to have cured my target panic that was caused exagerated movement due to the lens and anyone who shoots knows target panic is the biggest reason people dont shoot well.


You can also play with draw length to make your float change. Best of luck to you for the rest of the season.


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

Thanks and same to you. I have played with the DL and that helped as well with my float but I am wanting to get to the point were I dont move and I am liking it without the lens. Thats what makes archey so great, its different strokes for different fokes kind of game.


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

any other thoughts on this


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## draw29 (Dec 11, 2004)

There is no doubt that I shoot better with my lens out. I have proved it over and over. Also under bad weather conditions, I don't miss a lick. It can be pouring rain and I still hit em in the middle. No, sun glare, no fog on lens,no rain on lens,no dirt on lens and I don't need a clarifier that doubles the problems.


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## bowhunterprime (Jan 28, 2009)

I shot 3D with a lense for a while earlier this season and got some of the best scores ever. The fact that my lense wasn't clear made me take it out though. In my mind it didn't help all that much anyway. Now, after shooting without it for a while, I'm starting to have second thoughts. My scores have been down lately. I'm searching for a new sight and plan to put a lense back in and try again and see how it goes.

A.j. - I was just wondering, what power lense were you using? Maybe you only needed to go down in power instead of losing the lense all together? -Chris


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## PAFD ARCHER (Jan 31, 2008)

I took my lens out after the indoor season. I was shooting it well but. Outside is a different story. I took it out and havent looked back. To me it is more of a issue too many variables outside. I may not be able to see the rings but by god it is nice not worrying about the weather or it getting dirty. I just locate were i want to hit and shoot a controled comfortable shot. By the way i was using a 3x lens. I also went to a .010 up pin green from a .010 blue with a lens.


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## BrentW (Apr 12, 2008)

I have been shooting a lens for a couple years...until 4 weeks ago I took it out and it has been the best move I have ever made! NO MORE stress of major movement...I love seeing that pin sit still:darkbeer:
I feel alot more relaxed when I shoot! It takes some time to adjust because the target looks like a mile away.

At first it feels wiered seeing the pin sit there waiting to go off.

Have fun with it...give it some time you will get used to it!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

*Lens*



A.j. said:


> When I first I started shooting open class and up untill just yesterday I have shot a lens with an up pin and shot very well. Most of this year has been a strugle for me. I have not shot the scores I am used to and not nearly the X count. I feel like the lens was showing the small amount of movement when I was holding on the target and this was then causeing target panic becasue I felt the need to rush my shots. I have herd a lot about the pros not shooting a lens and decided to give it a try. I figured what can it hurt there has to be a reason. Yesterday I decided to give it a shot and I would have to say the results suprised me. I shot 144 on 15 targets and shot 6xs (more than I shot at bedford). I was a lot more relaxed and felt as if I could hold the bow all day. This then resulted in a more consistant shot than I have felt all year as well as a better score.
> 
> I was looking to see if anyone has experianced the same thing or has had the same troubles in the past. I am thinking of sticking with it for awahile and seeing how I do over the long run.



I dont shoot a lens for this reson. I dont like movement. Have tied them over the years and finally said I dont need a lens. Just works for me.
Some guys are amazed when I tell them Im not shooting any lens. Colin Boothe shot for years with no lens.'
DB


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

I was shooting 4 power. 

I shot twice last weekend and shot better scores than I had all year relative to the difficulty of the courses. I shot a local shoot wednesday night my fourth shoot with out the lens and shot 1up. Had 3 eights about a combined 1in out and the rest were clean. I had only one arrow on the ten line all night and of my 7xs four were inside out. I am making a better shot everytime I draw back and thats what counts. I can hold longer and make better shots and am just so much more comfortable now.

It seems to be a change with no negative affect and all positive.

Anyone else have any experiance like this.


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## YRhinefield (Feb 22, 2006)

I've found it make a big differnce in whether the scope pin is in front of or behind the lens.

I notice a lot more movement with scopes that have a pin behing the lens.


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## 4brdgob (Aug 11, 2009)

ive spent a lot of money on lenses and started the season off with lense out do to weather, an now i dont want lense back, my scores are alittle better i can shoot with both eyes open where with the lense i cant anymore ,i feel more comfortable without the lense.


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## STUDENT-ARCHER (Jun 26, 2009)

ttt...good read keep it coming


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## NY911 (Dec 12, 2004)

No lens for me either!

Pretty sure Levi is lenseless as well, but not positive.


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

A.j.
First of all, I'm glad to hear that no lens is working for you. I have been a no lens guy for the better part of 10 years. I never could seem to get the right combo that made it worth while. It was always either I could see the target great and not see the pin or vice versa. Well I recently did the exact opposite thing. I just went back to the lense. I got a Viper scope with a 4X and a 1/8 #1 clarifier and I feel like a blind man that suddenly can see. My vision is and always has been very good. I can see the 12 ring with my naked eye when most of my buddies can't. However the big issue I had was that the pin (even the .10 I shoot) looked the size of a soft ball to me. It covered up the spot I was trying to hit and resulted in me locking below the spot so I could see it. Just in case anybody is wondering, I'm not talking TP locking low, it was a matter of where did the 12 go? Now with the lens and the .10 pin, it seems so small that I can place it inside the 12 at modest distances. I shot my first 3D shoot with it this past weekend and my 12 ring count was some of the best it has been. 

I will agree that lenses and clarifiers can really be a burden in inclimate weather so I am prepared with another rig in case of it. Who knows, I may be back to no lens soon but right now I am really enjoying it. Funny how we have done the complete opposite and are shooting our best scores. Good luck!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I've shot both ways. The one thing that I did do was stay with a lower powered lens. Quite a few suggest 3 to 4X and 3X being close to what was the IBO rule maximum of 8X binoculars and then 3 to 4X lens doesn't require a clarifier for most people.
I use a Sure Loc sight frame extend out to 8", a 4X lens and .029" pin with 1/2" circle, and a 3/64" peep. The 4X lens I have seems more like 3X, so little movement is detected and the .029" pin gives less perceived movement. With this sight setup my highest score was 32 up on a 40 target course though I dislike spots I have shot 300s on 5 Spots (has to be the most boring archery game going) and done exceptionally well on the Field course.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Just starting to shoot an open set-up myself. Just never took to lenses well, even indoors. Do most guys like an .010 or .019 pin without the lense in. Seems a .019 would cover alot of area out past 35 yards.


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## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

hrtlnd,

It all depends on your vision. For me a .19 was just too big and the .10 is pretty good. With no lens I'd like to have something like a .05 but I don't think they make anything smaller than .10. Besides I'd lose it or break it trying to install it (LOL). Even the .10 seems the size of a softball to me on longer targets.


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## 1tiger (Jan 24, 2005)

my scores also improved removing the lens due to excessive movement and i was only useing a 2x lens to begin with.i am now able to move my sight out further and no worrys about rain or dust ect. but my scores jumped even more by removing the pin and using a very fine yellow in color monofilament fishing line for a cross hair,you dont have to worry about light conditions and its very easy to see on all 3d tagets. give it a try i think you will like it.ps just dont use a merrels yellow jacket as a practist bag hard to see yellow on yellow.


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## Gils4x4 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Request*

Can someone send me a copy of the Stailization article mentioned above (PM preferred)? When I activate the link, I can not read the article, the rest of the page is fine. Thanks in advance for your help.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

SpotShy said:


> hrtlnd,
> 
> It all depends on your vision. For me a .19 was just too big and the .10 is pretty good. With no lens I'd like to have something like a .05 but I don't think they make anything smaller than .10. Besides I'd lose it or break it trying to install it (LOL). Even the .10 seems the size of a softball to me on longer targets.


I believe you're missing a decimal point. You mean, .010" and .005", don't you? I hear they make a .007", but I haven't seen one yet.

Maybe I don't have the best vision, but with my Sure Loc extened out my .029" fits descently within the 5 of a 5 spot target face, even room to float around. I know some shooters (great shooters, national champions) and some have what look like 1/4" dots.
Here's the thing as explained to me years back; The center of any ring on a target face is the same center for all. Center the pin or dot to any ring and, if you do your stuff correctly, the arrow will go to the center, that X everyone wants.
For me a .029" pin works for 3D. Least wise, no one in 3D is blowing my doors off. I think I've place no lower than 5th place this year in any archery event.


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## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

I'm shooting .010 pins on my MBR set-up now and like them. On my open set-up I have been playing with I am shooting a .019 up pin and 3x lens. The magnified movement doesn't really affect me til I get out past 35-40 yards then my shots start taking longer to break and I think it may be due to the extra percieved movement. Guess I'll have to try it both ways and both pin sizes and see which is the lesser of the two evils.


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## A.j. (Sep 30, 2004)

Been shooting a lot as of late and without a lens is here to stay for me. My x count is crazy like my scores now. It was the best switch I have ever made.

Lets keep the thoughts rolling in this thread is awsome.


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## wrp (Jun 19, 2009)

*change*

I think change is best, i started the year shooting with a 3x lense and was smashing targets then started to get a little panic so i changed my back tension from clicker to non clicker, still didnt seem like the rock i used to be. so for me i went back to fixed pins and started shooting mbr which is nice cause u can still shoot with glue in points and a long stab, holding third in nys ibo with one more leg to go. hopefully my score keeps increasing. anyways i think change is good but the majority of the guys around here still shooting lenses and still smashing the x.


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## DonE (Nov 30, 2008)

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> You may want to look at how your stabilizer is set up...GRIV had a great article on how to do it right, I did it and its amazing
> http://www.archerylive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3894


I am sooooo glad you posted the link. I went out today and followed GRIV's advice and immediately improved my 40yd groups. Wow - what a difference.

Thanks again.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

*No Lense*

I also enjoyed the article by Griv, TTT for a great article.


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## RADAR72 (Feb 16, 2009)

I say just make sure you shoot next to me and your scores will always be awesome in comparison!!!


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## 90 meter 120 (May 7, 2007)

what type of release do you shoot? are you able to relax your entire bow arm when shooting? not being able to hold on the foam sounds like target panic


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