# arrow spine for mongolian horse bow



## martha j (May 11, 2009)

I don't believe they are anywhere near cut to center so a weaker spine would be my guess.


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

First off... congrats on the fine bow!

I too just ordered a custom kassai a week ago, its a 60# bear.

Ive asked a similar question recently but i only shoot aluminums... doesnt seem to be a whole lot of horsebow shooters here but from all the reading ive done i would pick a shaft 10# weaker than a similar setup on a recurve.

Kassais do get really thin in the grip area so i dont assume you need to go extremely weak.

I have a 30" draw so shoot 32-33" aluminums and have a dozen easton legacy 2020's that shoot straight on my 40lb sage and 45" samick mind 50 horsebow.... im hoping they tune well on the kassai when it gets here but yea... im kinda in the same boat, probablly will bareshaft one and see how close it is, if its way off i will have to order some various spined bare shafts.

The first thing you need to figure out is if you plan to shoot fingers or thumb because thats a big draw length difference. I was set on switching to thumb draw , made a half dozen rings and baught a couple more.... its a nice clean release but just couldnt get used to aiming off the wrong side of riser and switched back to 3 finger split.

Getting a few bare shafts to test would probably be the best route... problem is... with bareshaft tuning- you can only tune as good as your release and shooting allow and if you dont have a consistant release then you will get false mis spined indications.

Sorry i cant give you a definative answer, id figure what drawlength i would be using and look on 3rivers arrowspine selection chart and go 10# or a spine or two lower, that might get you close to tuneable


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

You'll need to measure the thickness of the bow at the arrow pass, and check to see how the string tracks at that point and whether or no the bow is symmetrical.

Then, as noted above, you'll need a surprisingly low dynamic spine arrow --- I used the Stu Miller Dynamic Spine Calculator: http://www.3riversarchery.com/spinecalculator.asp to pick out Carbon Express Predator II 800s for my 45# Kaya KTB which I shoot left-handed w/ a leather thumbring.


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## D Stroy (May 27, 2014)

Congrats on the Bear as well! That is a good looking bow. 
what grain point weight are you using to make those arrows work? It looks like your arrow spine fits more with the "recurve/centershot longbow" side of the 3rivers chart than the "longbow/selfbow" side, assuming you are using 125 grain points.


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

I havnt recieved the kassai yet, and only shot the mind50 a few times but they seemed to fly good from it. 

I spent a whole day changing points and watching how the arrows flew and grouped from my recurve and settled on 100gr points.

I tried using the stu dynamic spine calculator but cant figure out what to enter for the centercut measurement for a kassai... Googling didnt help, and not having the bow yet helps less. Lol


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

I just entered my recurve and easton 2020 arrow info on the stu miller spine calculator and its confirmed my tuning selection and experience as its almost an exact match!

So.....

If we could find someone who knew what we need to enter for the centercut measurement on our kassais ... i bet we could get real close and be able to order tuneable arrows with confidence


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## WillAdams (Jun 6, 2009)

Thanks.

I'm using a half in/outsert (46.6gr.) and currently trying 100gr. points


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Hmmm... so im playing around with the spine calculator.

I entered generic recurve/horsebow

Entered 60# at 30" (anyone know if kassais are rated at 28" or 30"?)

For centercut ive noticed most kassai bows have around 2" limbs at the belly and there riser/grip area look about half that, so lets say 1" ... the string sits in the middle and theres no cutout so i entered .5 for the centercut measurement.

Chose b50 for string type

This gave the bow a dynamic spine of around 46

My arrows are spined 53

If i go back and change the centercut measurement to .25 then i get a perfect match.

So i guess 1/4" will make a huge difference....

Im trying to find the actual thickness of kassai grip areas but having little luck


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Hmmm on horsebows.com it states that the kassai bear has 1.75" belly... do you think they are talking about the limbs or riser?

Edit... lol... they must mean the belly width of the limbs because my samick mind50 has a 1" wide grip and it looks thicker than the kassai's


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Ive emailed a few people asking for the exact measurement but for now i would guess a .5 centercut measurment should get you close and it looks like my aluminum 2020's should work with a 125-150 gr point


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

OP.... you never said (or i missed it) your draw length.

If your going to be shooting fingers and have a 28" draw ... the 3rivers trad only 500's should be perfect. Depending on what length you get will dictate what point weight you need to get best arrow flight.

If you really do plan on shooting thumb then this will increase your draw and arrow length and then you could move towards the 400 spine shafts (stiffer)

If you are unsure or have mixed feelings about if your going to stick with thumb release id go for the 500's in a longer length and you should be able to play around with both shooting styles

You mention a hunting shaft tuning set with 300,340,and 400 spines. Those are way too stiff.
The lower the number-the stiffer the spine.
The 400 may work with a medium weight point IF you are going to be shooting thumbdraw with a long draw/arrow... but id think 500 and 400's will be more usefull than the 300,340.

This is based on my .5 centercut guesstimate and previous uses of 400 spine arrows that i had to put 200gr upfront on a zero centercut 55lb recurve which drew close to 60# with my 30" draw.... if im off the path here someone please chime in


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

I was just informed on another forum that the kassai bears grip / riser is 3/4" thick and pretty sure that would be the same or close across all his similar glass bow models.

So OP... just use the + .375 option for centercut measurement on the spine calculator and enter all your specs.

I think youll find the 500's to spine close unless you are sticking with thumbdraw / long drawlength / long arrows - then I would go for the 400's and tune with points


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## D Stroy (May 27, 2014)

deez,
thanks for putting in the homework time! I have been messing around with the calculator as well. I do not know my drawlength with a thumbring (yes I plan on learning thumb draw for this bow) but with a compound it is at 29" (I am 6'1"). For the purpose of the calculator I was putting in 30" drawlength since max draw for the bow is 31. I also chose b50 for the string. I couldn't find if Kassai bows were rated at 28 or 30 so I split the difference at 29. I also put in your 3/8 from centercut choice. If the bow was rated at 28 inches, that gives the bow a dynamic spine of 57.8 and if rated at 30 inches, 50.2. 
For arrows, I was putting my BOP length at 32 (to give safety room for broadheads). Insert for traditional only arrows is 14 and nock is 10 grains. Point weight I was leaving at 125 (but wanted to leave the option of 135 or 160 for a broadhead). For the 400 spine this puts me at a dynamic spine of 62.4. The problem is that when I drop to the 500 spine I end up at 48.3. Probably would work fine for field points but not the broadheads. Knowing what drawlength these bows are rated at is becoming extremely important. If rated at 28 inches, the 400 sounds like it would work, but not if rated at 30. I will email the seller today and see if he knows. As far as bareshaft kit goes, you are probably right that the full kit with all spines might be a good idea.


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Is yours a laminated bow?

Here it says the wolf 1 is rated at 30" and wolf 2 at 28"

http://hunarchery.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=25_26&sort=3a&page=2


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Ive received an email back from ed at horsebows.com... He thinks the grip is 1.2" wide, that would be a pretty big difference from the .75" I was told by a kassai owner.
I think Ed was going to measure and get back to me, ill update...


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## D Stroy (May 27, 2014)

mine was not the laminated bow.


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## D Stroy (May 27, 2014)

here is the one: 
http://www.recurvebowshop.com/Kassai+mongol+recurve+bow+wolf2.htm


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Oh ok... ya- yours should have a 3/4" grip i would think


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## Todd the archer (Feb 7, 2003)

I have an Attila's Archery Hungarian style horsebow that is 65# @ 28". The grip is 1" wide no shelf, shot off the hand. I am using wood arrows spined @ 55#with 125 grain tips. This combo seems to fly very nice for me. So I would go with the 10 under thing. BTW I shoot three finger split.

Todd


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## D Stroy (May 27, 2014)

Thanks Todd and Will. 
Btw Deez, I messaged Peter (from recurvebowshop) and he said that because of summer vacations my bow likely won't ship until July 28 or so. I am not sure if that will be true for yours as well but just a heads up in case you were (like me) getting excited about receiving it soon. Hopefully that is an overestimation of the time needed but who knows.


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for the update.... im not in too big of a hurry to get it as ill have to explain another bow to the ol lady lol.... but i am looking foward to getting it


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## deezdrama (Aug 19, 2013)

Any word on your bow shipping?

Peter told me the same thing... summer vacations and will let me know when it ships


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## 893301 (Sep 17, 2018)

D Stroy said:


> Hi,
> I recently purchased a Kassai Wolf II from recurvebowshop.com's ebay site. It is 60# draw weight with a max draw of 31 inches.
> While I have experience with compound bows, this will be my first traditional as well as first time learning thumb draw. For arrows I was looking at getting the 3Rivers traditional only carbon arrows and am trying to figure out what the spine will be. I was recommended by them to get the bareshaft kit that comes with 300, 340, and 400 shafts. I am sure this is likely the best method for tuning but my worry is that since I have never shot with a thumb draw before, poor technique will mask which arrow flies best.
> Do any of you have experience with this bow or one like it? I have read a lot of contradictory information when it comes to arrow spine for horsebows, some saying that you want to spine 10# over and other saying 10# under. My thought was, since my technique is bound to start out poor, get advice from you guys about what might work best and then use those arrows to get my technique better to the point where I can actually tell how the arrows are tuned. What would be a good spine to start with? Thanks,
> -D


Truth is, it doesn't matter when you shoot instinctive. Just shoot the arrow a few times and you will know where it goes. Then keep doing it that way without looking at arrow. Only look at target. It's like throwing rocks. Your mind will do it for you. I like super stuff spines at least 400 or even 350. I have a 60# vazul too. You want to go stiff because that's a heavier arrow make sure your arrow's about at least 500 grains total.


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## 893301 (Sep 17, 2018)

D Stroy said:


> Hi,
> I recently purchased a Kassai Wolf II from recurvebowshop.com's ebay site. It is 60# draw weight with a max draw of 31 inches.
> While I have experience with compound bows, this will be my first traditional as well as first time learning thumb draw. For arrows I was looking at getting the 3Rivers traditional only carbon arrows and am trying to figure out what the spine will be. I was recommended by them to get the bareshaft kit that comes with 300, 340, and 400 shafts. I am sure this is likely the best method for tuning but my worry is that since I have never shot with a thumb draw before, poor technique will mask which arrow flies best.
> Do any of you have experience with this bow or one like it? I have read a lot of contradictory information when it comes to arrow spine for horsebows, some saying that you want to spine 10# over and other saying 10# under. My thought was, since my technique is bound to start out poor, get advice from you guys about what might work best and then use those arrows to get my technique better to the point where I can actually tell how the arrows are tuned. What would be a good spine to start with? Thanks,
> -D


400 with 100 grain inserts. 125 tip. I leave at 32


D Stroy said:


> Hi,
> I recently purchased a Kassai Wolf II from recurvebowshop.com's ebay site. It is 60# draw weight with a max draw of 31 inches.
> While I have experience with compound bows, this will be my first traditional as well as first time learning thumb draw. For arrows I was looking at getting the 3Rivers traditional only carbon arrows and am trying to figure out what the spine will be. I was recommended by them to get the bareshaft kit that comes with 300, 340, and 400 shafts. I am sure this is likely the best method for tuning but my worry is that since I have never shot with a thumb draw before, poor technique will mask which arrow flies best.
> Do any of you have experience with this bow or one like it? I have read a lot of contradictory information when it comes to arrow spine for horsebows, some saying that you want to spine 10# over and other saying 10# under. My thought was, since my technique is bound to start out poor, get advice from you guys about what might work best and then use those arrows to get my technique better to the point where I can actually tell how the arrows are tuned. What would be a good spine to start with? Thanks,
> -D


I have a wolf


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## 893301 (Sep 17, 2018)

WillAdams said:


> You'll need to measure the thickness of the bow at the arrow pass, and check to see how the string tracks at that point and whether or no the bow is symmetrical.
> 
> Then, as noted above, you'll need a surprisingly low dynamic spine arrow --- I used the Stu Miller Dynamic Spine Calculator: 3Rivers Archery Supply to pick out Carbon Express Predator II 800s for my 45# Kaya KTB which I shoot left-handed w/ a leather thumbring.


With thumb draw you don't need such a weak spine.
65# bear =400 spine 100 grain inserts 125 tip at 32" traditional gt


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## 893301 (Sep 17, 2018)

D Stroy said:


> Hi,
> I recently purchased a Kassai Wolf II from recurvebowshop.com's ebay site. It is 60# draw weight with a max draw of 31 inches.
> While I have experience with compound bows, this will be my first traditional as well as first time learning thumb draw. For arrows I was looking at getting the 3Rivers traditional only carbon arrows and am trying to figure out what the spine will be. I was recommended by them to get the bareshaft kit that comes with 300, 340, and 400 shafts. I am sure this is likely the best method for tuning but my worry is that since I have never shot with a thumb draw before, poor technique will mask which arrow flies best.
> Do any of you have experience with this bow or one like it? I have read a lot of contradictory information when it comes to arrow spine for horsebows, some saying that you want to spine 10# over and other saying 10# under. My thought was, since my technique is bound to start out poor, get advice from you guys about what might work best and then use those arrows to get my technique better to the point where I can actually tell how the arrows are tuned. What would be a good spine to start with? Thanks,
> -D


I use only 340 gold tip traditional with anything over 60# 
400 spine under that. Never 500 for anything horsebow. I use 100 grain gold tip brass inserts and 100 grain tip.


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## wmkimura (Apr 30, 2018)

My first thought is that the draw weight of your first trad/horse bow should be close to the holding weight of your compound at full draw. Your new horse bow will be close to 60# at full draw. How does that compare to your compound a full draw?
On arrow spine, unlike a compound, a horse bow is not a center shot bow. The arrow has to go around the full width of the bow. And so needs to be more flexible than the arrows for a compound of the same draw weight. The exception to that may be if the archer uses bow torque to help move the bow out of the way of the arrow at release. But that is an advanced technique. For most a more flexible spine is called for. Maybe 400 or 500.


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