# Paper Tuning, Tear left



## TimberGhost74 (Nov 22, 2016)

I am sure this has been answered a hundred times, but I have seen a few different answers. 

Wifes bow, 35 pounds, 26" draw. She has 500 spine Black Eagle Outlaw Pinks. Bear Prowess. index finger trigger release. 

First, I really think we are over-spined. The shop just sold us what they had in stock. (my assumption. I took 15 years off from shooting, and never shot carbon arrows before now, so I did not even check. My own fault) The chart looks like we should be shooting 600 spine. Even up to 40 pounds, it says 600 spine. 

We are getting a tear left paper tuning. I can get it dialed in perfect, but the rest to simply too far to the right. You can clearly see it is. At the moment I can only shoot 10 yards. I need to buy a bigger house I think, or someplace warmer with less snow, lol. 

I tried to find a happy medium, and we have her sights dialed in at 10 yards, but the paper tune is a tear left. Not too bad though, but visible. She is shooting well, and we have a spot tournament this weekend at 20 yards. But, not being paper tuned is bugging me. We are using it more to get her sighted in at 20 yards, a tune up for the 3d bowhunter league that starts in January. 

Come spring time, we are maxing the bow out at 40 pounds, and I will be switching arrows. I think we are gonna go with the lightest arrow we can find. (we are 3d shooting, not hunting) Try and get it shooting as flat as we can for the unknown distance shoots. 

We have an indoor league starting in January. Indoors, 3d. 10 to 20 yards. Should we just go with what we got, and live with it till spring? Or does it look like I am missing something obvious? 

My bow was easy. Paper tuned it, small correction on the rest, and everything looks, and shoots great. Easy Peasy. Her bow has me frustrated. Thanks.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

Your wife's optimum spine will be around an 850 spine if she's running the arrow about 27" carbon to carbon. My wife shoots Easton Carbon Ones in an 800 spine with 90gr points at 27.5" carbon to carbon off a bow at 39lbs and 27 5/8" DL. They spine out perfectly for her. She's shooting the Bear Finesse which is the predecessor to your wife's bow. Her arrow speed is 243fps with that arrow so it's kicking it out there pretty good at only 39lbs.

First thing I would do with your wife is to make sure she's gripping the bow properly. 90% of tuning problems are actually shooting problems. I have to teach people how to shoot all the time to get their bows tuned. I can shoot bullets with them and when I hand the bow back, it's like I did nothing to it. 

For a persistent nock left, chances are she has too much thumb on the right edge of the grip. Read through this thread and you'll see a great discussion on the topic. Page 2 is where it gets really good. The guy has the same problem though so it should prove helpful. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2391973


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## TimberGhost74 (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks! Actually, she is 26" carbon to carbon. I was wrong earlier, and had to measure. 

This is where I am at a loss. Gold Tip, and Black Eagle charts put her in the 600 spine range. Is this a deal where the spine needed is very different from brand to brand? I see Easton has a much more complicated chart, but I did narrow it down to an 800 spine on a couple different arrows. 

As for the rest of what you said, i will work on it. I am hesitant to try and change too much with her at one time. She holds good groups, but I know we can do better. I think tomorrow night I will paper shoot again, and see if there is a difference with her shooting, and then me shooting. See if I can convince her to work on her grip a little more.

She did tell me tonight that she hates her release. I think sometime this winter we need to make a trip somewhere to a real archery store where she can actually try some out. 

thanks again. We have everything we need to work on our form here at the house. We can travel to shoot 20 yards to a few different places.


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## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

Depending on the bow you could yoke tune it to move the string closer to center shot.

But

If your wife is a new shooter she may not be able to shoot well enough yet to tell. I have 4 shooters in the house. I tune to their ability. Which means I tune my youngest daughters bow by shooting it myself and then giving it to her. Is it tuned to her? No. And there is no way she could pull that off anyway. My wife gets a "good enough" tune because that's about all she is worried about. My oldest I start tuning with her shooting bare shaft and making small changes. She's good enough, but I don't go crazy with it because she won't hang in for the long haul. Me, I might spend several days tinkering with mine until I'm happy. 

So if she is new, maybe you get it working the way you want. Then work on her form instead of wasting time with her working on the bow. About mid season revisit tuning it with her shooting it.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

TimberGhost74 said:


> Thanks! Actually, she is 26" carbon to carbon. I was wrong earlier, and had to measure.
> 
> This is where I am at a loss. Gold Tip, and Black Eagle charts put her in the 600 spine range. Is this a deal where the spine needed is very different from brand to brand? I see Easton has a much more complicated chart, but I did narrow it down to an 800 spine on a couple different arrows.
> 
> ...


The Black Eagle and GT charts aren't very accurate. For light weight stuff, they almost always will over spine you. I built my wife's arrows, along with all of mine, using OnTarget2 an arrow selection software. It takes into account every component and the specs of the bow and gives you the optimum arrow for your setup. Every arrow I've set up doing this has been spot on and tuned very easily. 

Not to say that your wife can't shoot good groups with over spined arrows. My wife's indoor arrows are over spined by a lot but as long as she's doing her part, they go where she wants. They aren't near as forgiving as her outdoor Easton Carbon Ones though. I've also been extremely impressed with the Carbon Ones for their consistency and toughness. Every one of her arrows is within 0.4 grains of each other after fletching and all the components were installed. They are also straighter than their straightness rating after I spun and cut the run out off of them. We shot groups with them on the same target all summer and even with my and many other peoples arrows slamming in on top of hers, she hasn't damaged a single one. Great arrow for the price.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

chiefjason said:


> Depending on the bow you could yoke tune it to move the string closer to center shot.
> 
> But
> 
> ...


Spot on right here. That's how I started with my wife. I set up her bow and "tuned" it so she could start shooting. She did pretty well and once she said she wanted to get more into it and I could tell she was starting to get competitive, we jumped to bareshaft tuning, after a lot of form work of course. Now she tunes her bow with bareshafts at 10 and 15 yards and calls it good enough. I do more than that and stretch the bareshafts out further but it was good enough for her to take 1st and 2nd in the two outdoor shoots she did with me this summer.


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## TimberGhost74 (Nov 22, 2016)

Thanks for the tips on the arrow spine numbers. This is something I will look at much harder come spring time. 

I think we have her pretty close, so I just need to leave it alone for now. We have only been shooting for a month after a 12 year lay-off for crying out loud, lol. I was just baffled at how easy my bow was to tune, and hers would just not dial in. We will shoot what we have, work on our form, and re-evaluate in the spring before we go 3d shooting. 

Thanks again for the tips.


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## chiefjason (Mar 22, 2016)

FYI, you can tune a bow to shoot heavier spines. ALL the fat target arrows are over spined. I don't need a 250 spine. But with the bow tuned right it's not a problem. An arrow spine that's in the range for the bow is a bit more forgiving in some ways. So the main issue is tune. A bow that is sending an arrow straight out of the bow will send any arrow with the appropriate spine or a heavier spine out of the bow straight. A spine too weak can be dangerous.


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## drw679 (Dec 12, 2011)

Also check draw length. You can get and repeat a left tear if your draw length is a touch long. Found this out this year with my son.


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## bgolden (Aug 11, 2010)

Make sure not to cross the line going to too weak of spine. Especially when dealing with broad head flight.


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## bowyerlife (Feb 3, 2017)

i didnt see anyone saying this already but there's a decent chance that you can just up the point weight and fix that problem. get some brass inserts that will work and or some screw in weights (not sure if they will work but I can check for you if you pm or email me). and up the point weight to a 125 or a heavier glue-in point like a tophat. 

adding weight to the front of that arrow will weaken the shaft.


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