# Muzzleloader season dates and equipment....opinions?



## dt5150 (Oct 17, 2007)

what's wrong with having a scope on your muzzleloader? if nothing else, it enables the hunter to make a more clean, humane kill by increasing the odds of making the best shot that they can make. 

what's wrong with ml hunters hunting during the rut? not everyone wants to, or can be a bowhunter. just because their weapon of choice isn't the same (a bow), doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to hunt during the rut. 

that being said, i hunt all the seasons that my state offers. bow, ml, and firearm. and i thoroughly enjoy them ALL. our ml season opens the 1st of nov. while our firearm season opens nov. 12th. both of which continue until dec. 7th. both the ml and firearm season are right smack dab in the middle of the rut, and i'm glad they are. i can use whichever weapon i want out of the 3 (bow, ml, or firearm). this helps me to maximize my chances for taking a nice buck. what's wrong with that?


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## Masssteve (Sep 2, 2008)

*!!*

Not a God Damm thing !!!!!!!!!!!


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## tlzimmerman (Apr 21, 2008)

*Maybe I should clarify*

Maybe I should clarify.

First I have NO problem with muzzleloaders or hunting with them. DT it sounds like your season in your state is exactly how I think Kansas should run theirs (right before rifle season). The seasons are set up so that bowhunters, who have a lower success rate due to having to get so close to the game, get a shot at the mature bucks first (at least this is how it seems). What I don't get is putting a muzzleloader season during the dedicated bow season when they have ranges out that far. 

I think hunting with muzzleloader is great, I just think the season is in the wrong place. Kansas you can hunt with a muzzleloader or gun or bow during the rifle season at the end, and I also think thats great. The placement of the season and allowing optics is what confuses me. Seems backwards to why they have the seasons placed the way they do.

My statement of saying "at least they aren't in the middle of the rut" seems biased, but is in reference giving the mature deer a chance to pass on their genetics one more time before we use modern equipment to take them at long ranges. Course having them gone before the rut starts is the same thing, which I guess why it feels wierd to me that its allowed.

Thanks for your opinions, and good luck hunting this season!


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## bartman3562 (Aug 7, 2005)

*Article*

There was a very good article about this in a magazine a while back. The state is out to reduce the deer herd. Other states that have done an early muzzle loader season, but with no scopes get little, if any use. Population older, poorer eyesight, and if you only get one weapon, one tag, they picked rifle. Now, with a scope, the get a large turnout, and with any season tag, even more partcipation. It will work, there will be lots more deer killed, which is what they want. I work part time and Gander, and our muzzleloader sales are through the roof. I got one with a T/C I bought, so am going to kill some freezer meat with it, and bow hunt rest. Only down side is before, while filling doe tags during rifle season, it was illegal to kill buck ( archery only tag), so it made it easy to pass. Now with the any season, it will be tough to pass Mr Big when I have my 25/06, or muzzleloader, in hand, and he is 60 yards out  I will hate it, but I bet I will shoot


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## prostreetcamaro (Dec 17, 2006)

I agree with you that its not right how they have the season setup in your area.


BTW here is my knight disc elite. I also use a old fashioned sidelock with 90 grains of black powder and a ball and patch. Let me tell you out to 80 yards that ball and patch sidelock is DEADLY!


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## Kansas P&Y (Dec 14, 2007)

I can't really say it bothers me that they allow scopes on muzzleloaders now, however I dont' like the early muzzleloader season in Kansas. I think they should give the bowhunters a chance first. One thing I've noticed is alot of rifle hunters now hunting with a muzzleloader because of the early season, and If you put any time into scouting and do your homework your probably gonna shoot the deer you want during early muzzloader. I know of several people who shoot big deer each year because of the early muzzloader, and the few that don't get theirs during the early season really struggle to get one during the late season because the deer are so much harder to find during rifle season out here. With all the change this year it's not helping the bowhunting out at all because now the rifle hunters can get an archery tag and hunt with a bow and if they don't get one they can shoot a buck with a rifle.


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## dt5150 (Oct 17, 2007)

our bow season runs from sept 15 to dec 15, with the ml and firearm season sammiched in the middle. i like it that way actually.. just wish they'd give us more tags.


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## tlzimmerman (Apr 21, 2008)

Kansas P&Y said:


> I can't really say it bothers me that they allow scopes on muzzleloaders now, however I dont' like the early muzzleloader season in Kansas. I think they should give the bowhunters a chance first. One thing I've noticed is alot of rifle hunters now hunting with a muzzleloader because of the early season, and If you put any time into scouting and do your homework your probably gonna shoot the deer you want during early muzzloader. I know of several people who shoot big deer each year because of the early muzzloader, and the few that don't get theirs during the early season really struggle to get one during the late season because the deer are so much harder to find during rifle season out here. With all the change this year it's not helping the bowhunting out at all because now the rifle hunters can get an archery tag and hunt with a bow and if they don't get one they can shoot a buck with a rifle.


I agree with you, and thats exactly my point worded probably better than I put it. It seems like rifle hunters just get a scope and a muzzleloader and go out during early season and get whatever they want. I also agree with the earlier poster its because they want more deer killed, and he is right it will help accomplish that. I have hunted with a rifle every year before now, and getting in range of the big boys is much harder that time of year than it is in early season, when it seems they are standing everywhere, by then they are onto us.

I do, however, think I see a flaw in your writing. If you get an archery tag, you can continue to hunt during rifle season, but it must be with archery equipment. You cannot get an archery tag and hunt with a rifle. I think this is what you meant, and unless I am wrong (which is possible) thats not correct.


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## tlzimmerman (Apr 21, 2008)

dt5150 said:


> our bow season runs from sept 15 to dec 15, with the ml and firearm season sammiched in the middle. i like it that way actually.. just wish they'd give us more tags.


Our bowhunting season runs from sept 22nd to dec 5 (i think thats the end?) but running in concurrence with the first 2 weeks of bow season is muzzloader. I think they should put the muzzleloader right before rifle season at the end of archery, not at the start of archery season.


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## atkins72 (Apr 22, 2008)

I also agree that scoped muzzle loaders should not be allowed during the first 2 weeks of archery. I would be ok with non scoped ML's in early season, but with modern ML's with a scope you might as well be shooting a centerfire, at least for the average range of a rifle shot deer. 

Now, I am going to have to wear orange the first two weeks and worry about some idiot shooting me.


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## kda082 (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm selfish. I liked it the way it was. BP season in Sept with open sights only. I've hunted in the early black powder season. Now guys and guns with 200 yrd range will get first poke. Either sex permit will transfer to whatever weapon is in season which means more pressure in the deer woods. I'll admit i'm very selfish. Doesn't our archery season run through Dec?


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## tlzimmerman (Apr 21, 2008)

kda082 said:


> I'm selfish. I liked it the way it was. BP season in Sept with open sights only. I've hunted in the early black powder season. Now guys and guns with 200 yrd range will get first poke. Either sex permit will transfer to whatever weapon is in season which means more pressure in the deer woods. I'll admit i'm very selfish. Doesn't our archery season run through Dec?


I checked, archery goes til dec 31 so you are right. Rifle starts dec 3rd.


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## bigbowman14 (Sep 14, 2006)

Just bought a Tc encore pro hunter and put a 4-16 leupold on it...cant wait til the first sat in Nov. to smack a deer..I hunt 2 states and I will have hunted for about 180hrs with a bow by the time muzzleloader season comes in...I personally like the change.


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## horseman308 (Apr 17, 2006)

prostreetcamaro said:


> I also use a old fashioned sidelock with 90 grains of black powder and a ball and patch. Let me tell you out to 80 yards that ball and patch sidelock is DEADLY!


I agree! I'm probably the wrong kind of guy to ask about muzzleloader hunting; I'm pretty much a purist/traditionalist. I hunt most of my firearms seasons with a .50 flintlock. I really understand the need for optics for those who have failing eye-sight. I'm fine with that. But my personal beliefs (and yes, they're just that - not fact) is that muzzleloader seasons were set up as a sort of primitive weapon season between archery and modern firearms, as management. Building muzzleloaders that have much the same range as a cartridge rifle, with pre-packaged pellets and saboted bullets just defeats the purpose. It's like a cartridge that just happens to load from the front. But as long as it's legal, then whatever. I'll still use my flinter with patched round ball. Killed my first deer with it!


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## bartman3562 (Aug 7, 2005)

*New tag*

I do, however, think I see a flaw in your writing. If you get an archery tag, you can continue to hunt during rifle season, but it must be with archery equipment. You cannot get an archery tag and hunt with a rifle. I think this is what you meant, and unless I am wrong (which is possible) thats not correct.[/QUOTE]

If you buy the right tag, you can hunt all seasons on the same tag, and move down, not up. If muzzleloader season, you can use bow or muzzleloader, rifle season, you can use any, bow is only bow. I have always bow hunted, but I will be getting the any season tag this year. Unless you are diehard archery, and won't shoot a buck with a firearm, no reason to buy the archery only tag.


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## tlzimmerman (Apr 21, 2008)

You can get an whitetail any season tag now as a resident, you are correct.


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## marbowNC (Apr 28, 2008)

I don't see nothing wrong with putting a scope on a muzzloader but I do see a problem with hunting with one during bow season , They are tring to do something like that here in NC but you would be able to hunt with gun or muzzloader all season , there wouldn't be a bow season or muzzloader or rifle , you would hunt with whatever ya wanted to , I think it would screw up your bow season there just like it would do here if they pass it.


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

prostreetcamaro said:


> I agree with you that its not right how they have the season setup in your area.
> 
> 
> BTW here is my knight disc elite. I also use a old fashioned sidelock with 90 grains of black powder and a ball and patch. Let me tell you out to 80 yards that ball and patch sidelock is DEADLY!


Nice inline, but as an avid primitive muzzleloader enthusiast myself, i'd rather see a picture of your SideLock, either a percussion cap or FlintLock, I presume. :tongue:


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## DBiggers (Nov 17, 2006)

horseman308 said:


> I agree! I'm probably the wrong kind of guy to ask about muzzleloader hunting; I'm pretty much a purist/traditionalist. I hunt most of my firearms seasons with a .50 flintlock. I really understand the need for optics for those who have failing eye-sight. I'm fine with that. But my personal beliefs (and yes, they're just that - not fact) is that muzzleloader seasons were set up as a sort of primitive weapon season between archery and modern firearms, as management. Building muzzleloaders that have much the same range as a cartridge rifle, with pre-packaged pellets and saboted bullets just defeats the purpose. It's like a cartridge that just happens to load from the front. But as long as it's legal, then whatever. I'll still use my flinter with patched round ball. Killed my first deer with it!


I'am sure your exactly right. when the Muzzleloader seasons was first inacted so many, many, years ago, they didn't have scopes in mind. I'am not against inlines, heck i own a Traditions Pursuit XLT w/nikon scope, but I also would rather be out there in the woods with my TC 50 cal. FlintLock Hawken rifle. And hopefully before too long, it'll be with a 50 cal. Long Rifle, in either FlintLock or percussion cap. :wink: Here in Tennessee our Muzzleloader season opens Nov. 1st, just after the juvenile hunt, and right before the Rifle season. Looking forward to it. :thumb:


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Here the ML runs the last 2 weeks of bow season. The last club I was in that kept totals about 1/2 the shootable bucks each year were killed during the 11 day ML season. They had a 14" rule. That means from Oct 5th - Jan 5th (all of deer season all weapons combined) the ML in 10 days was able to do what it took weeks for all other weapons to do in regards to bucks. Here ML gets peak of the rut. When they did this it turned ML season into the most desired season. This sent up license sales as another license is required for the ML. Now that a ML is a 150+ yd weapon it's more effective than the regular gun season as a lot of the counties here do not allow rifles but do allow ML. A lot here is shotgun only. When you go to the deer show for the state a lot of the nicer bucks are taken by ML hunters. It changes things.


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