# safety testing and CSS compound bows



## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

You need to take some close up pic of the whole bow & its cam system, so we can see what you may have.
Have been around compound since 1968 & have 25 years in MFG. but don't remember the CCS system.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

kballer1 said:


> You need to take some close up pic of the whole bow & its cam system, so we can see what you may have.
> Have been around compound since 1968 & have 25 years in MFG. but don't remember the CCS system.


Here's both sides of the top and bottom - let me know if there are any useful angles I've missed.
I don't know if the strings could be the the original ones, but the tension seems fairly low though I'm not used to this type of bow. It doesn't have any appreciable fraying though there are several areas where the serving has separated (not unraveled). Is that what compound strings look like when they creep? Would that make the string more likely to snap or does it just affect accuracy? The brace height is 6.75".
The limb bolts are wound several turns out. Is there a rule of thumb for how much they can be wound out?

I think the company was pretty small, based in West Virginia and run by Chuck Nease who later went on to design for
Carbon Tech and Win&Win.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Pics covered good, say early 90's cam bow. Looks like the limbs are turned out to far, are there any weight or draw stickers on bow? If you bottom out limbs would say shouldn't back off more than 4 full turns both top & bottom usually # adjustment 10 to 15 #. Strings look like may be original, serving separation is normal
on cams with the sharp humps like those have & shouldn't have any major effect on durability or accuracy.
Strings seem to be OK as the cams aren't over wrapping on the string. Sounds like small company that was probably mainly regional.
I used to be in purchasing & attended all the major buying shows & never came across them.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

kballer1 said:


> Pics covered good, say early 90's cam bow. Looks like the limbs are turned out to far, are there any weight or draw stickers on bow? If you bottom out limbs would say shouldn't back off more than 4 full turns both top & bottom usually # adjustment 10 to 15 #. Strings look like may be original, serving separation is normal
> on cams with the sharp humps like those have & shouldn't have any major effect on durability or accuracy.
> Strings seem to be OK as the cams aren't over wrapping on the string. Sounds like small company that was probably mainly regional.
> I used to be in purchasing & attended all the major buying shows & never came across them.


Thanks, that's very helpful. Glad to know about the separation being fairly normal. I'll turn the limb bolts down to max (alternating between the bolts half a turn at a time) and take it back 4 turns and get a draw force curve tomorrow. 
There's not a single sticker anywhere on the bow, even under the grip.


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

When you have it bottomed out check to see what the # is so you have some base to work with.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

Bottomed out it's 77# with an error of about a pound as it's near the limit on my scale. Not 100% sure the limbs were all the way down but the bolt wouldn't turn any farther.
With 4 full turns taken out it's now 61#.
The valley is 25# and lasts from 27-28" draw so I suppose it's set to 27.5" which fortunately should work for me. 
I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near this heavy due bow hunting being illegal in the UK and most target competitions having a max weight of 60lbs.
Letoff is 60%, which is surprisingly low. Was that a fairly standard thing at the time? From the archived webpage it looks like 60-75% was available and all bows were custom made so it would have been an active decision by the buyer. 
Based on the draw force curve it's got about 109 joules of potential energy at full draw, and even if only 70% of that becomes kinetic energy then that would be 290+ FPS with a 300 grain arrow. 300 grains would be 5gpp which is the most common minimum I've seen, though would this sort of bow likely need something heavier?
When it's at full draw I have full access to the parts of the serving that have separated on the cams - would there be any advantage to serving over those areas with very thin serving material? I've got a rope tying the string to the winch so it feels pretty secure.


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## joel308cal (Nov 17, 2017)

I’m still shooting my CSS System 1 for 3D and a System 2 for hunting. If you have any questions or concerns hit me up. I’m still in constant contact with Mr. Nease who was the owner of CSS. He’s still shooting those CSS bows as well lol. Some things are are meant to be....... 


BTW, what you have there is a original System 2. More than likely it’s a 60-70lbs bow. If it’s topping off at 77lbs then the string is certainly stretched bad. You look to have the 15.5” limbs which would make that bow about 37-38” axle to axle.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

joel308cal said:


> I’m still shooting my CSS System 1 for 3D and a System 2 for hunting. If you have any questions or concerns hit me up. I’m still in constant contact with Mr. Nease who was the owner of CSS. He’s still shooting those CSS bows as well lol. Some things are are meant to be.......
> 
> 
> BTW, what you have there is a original System 2. More than likely it’s a 60-70lbs bow. If it’s topping off at 77lbs then the string is certainly stretched bad. You look to have the 15.5” limbs which would make that bow about 39” axle to axle.


Thanks! Will do. I'm glad yours has stood the test of time well - is there something specific about the design that's made it last so well?

Do you think that level of stretch in the string is likely to be a breakage issue? Or is it more about accuracy? I've shot the bow a few times using a shooting machine just fine, haven't drawn it by hand yet due to an unrelated injury that's nearly healed.

Do you shoot yours with fingers? Mine came set up that way, and that's what I plan to use it for, but I'm curious whether the system was more commonly used with a d loop and release instead.

For the limb bolt adjustment, does 4 turns from max weight sound about right? That seems pretty standard with other bows but I haven't been able to find a manual for this one. 

Would you recommend a minimum gpp arrow for it? I've got two different shafts that I can probably get to tune, one that's 300 grains (ACE) and one that's 600 grains (XX75).


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## joel308cal (Nov 17, 2017)

cerelestecerele said:


> Thanks! Will do. I'm glad yours has stood the test of time well - is there something specific about the design that's made it last so well?
> 
> Do you think that level of stretch in the string is likely to be a breakage issue? Or is it more about accuracy? I've shot the bow a few times using a shooting machine just fine, haven't drawn it by hand yet due to an unrelated injury that's nearly healed.
> 
> ...



First, I would change out that string before continuing to shoot it more. If you give me the ATA length I can get the proper string/cable length for you. Secondly, the design is a straight forward no whistles or bells thus it’ll outlast both you and Me lol. Also, I wouldn’t go out more than 3-4 turns from bottom. I shoot both of my CSS bows with a D-loop and Carter release(Chocolate Lite) with great success. My 3D bow(37” ATA) is set up at 28/60 shooting a 320gr carbon arrow. My hunting bow(33” ATA) is set at 28/60 shooting a 425gr carbon arrow. If you plan to hunt with it then 7gppis good. If you’re target shooting, 5.5gpp would be safe. The CSS bows were never known for exceptional speed, but more about reliability and repeatability shot after shot. Also Mr Nease does have extra limbs in lower poundage if you’re needing some. If you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

joel308cal said:


> First, I would change out that string before continuing to shoot it more. If you give me the ATA length I can get the proper string/cable length for you. Secondly, the design is a straight forward no whistles or bells thus it’ll outlast both you and Me lol. Also, I wouldn’t go out more than 3-4 turns from bottom. I shoot both of my CSS bows with a D-loop and Carter release(Chocolate Lite) with great success. My 3D bow(37” ATA) is set up at 28/60 shooting a 320gr carbon arrow. My hunting bow(33” ATA) is set at 28/60 shooting a 425gr carbon arrow. If you plan to hunt with it then 7gppis good. If you’re target shooting, 5.5gpp would be safe. The CSS bows were never known for exceptional speed, but more about reliability and repeatability shot after shot. Also Mr Nease does have extra limbs in lower poundage if you’re needing some. If you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask.


It's currently 39.75" ATA but might have been a bit lower 25 years ago, don't know if creep has a large effect on the ATA length. Glad it lasts so well.


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## joel308cal (Nov 17, 2017)

Those bows will outlast you lol. I would change out those strings and cables before continuing to shoot it.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

joel308cal said:


> Those bows will outlast you lol. I would change out those strings and cables before continuing to shoot it.


Definitely, what length string and cables do you think based on that ATA?


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## joel308cal (Nov 17, 2017)

cerelestecerele said:


> Definitely, what length string and cables do you think based on that ATA?



I’ll need some info on the bow,

ATA is 39.75” correct?
DW is currently at 77lbs correct?
What’s the draw length? The module on the cams should have a number or letter.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

joel308cal said:


> I’ll need some info on the bow,
> 
> ATA is 39.75” correct?
> DW is currently at 77lbs correct?
> What’s the draw length? The module on the cams should have a number or letter.


Both ATA and DW are correct, though I wouldn't be surprised if the ATA would have been 39" and DW 70lbs when the string was new as those are the sizes the bow came in.
The deepest point in the valley is at 27.5in from the back of the bow so I expect that's the current draw length. There's a very faint number 4 on the bottom one.


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## joel308cal (Nov 17, 2017)

cerelestecerele said:


> Both ATA and DW are correct, though I wouldn't be surprised if the ATA would have been 39" and DW 70lbs when the string was new as those are the sizes the bow came in.
> The deepest point in the valley is at 27.5in from the back of the bow so I expect that's the current draw length. There's a very faint number 4 on the bottom one.



I’ll contact Mr Nease and get those string/cable measurements. Give me a few days. Thanks


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey cerelestecerele have you heard back from joel308cal on the string & cable lengths? It is interesting to read about vintage bow & luckly you found some one that has a connection with the bow that can get you the bow spects that you need. Will be waiting to hear how your bow works out. Good luck with it as I have been involved in many vintage bows brought back to life.


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## cerelestecerele (Aug 5, 2019)

kballer1 said:


> Hey cerelestecerele have you heard back from joel308cal on the string & cable lengths? It is interesting to read about vintage bow & luckly you found some one that has a connection with the bow that can get you the bow spects that you need. Will be waiting to hear how your bow works out. Good luck with it as I have been involved in many vintage bows brought back to life.


I heard back from Chuck Nease about who suggested going with a shorter than standard string by a couple inches so as to further reduce the draw weigth at the expense of the holding weight since I only cared about the peak value. I made up a couple strings in a Goldilocks process (first one too long, second too short, hopefully the third will be just right). The second string is currently on the bow and after firing a few shots using the machine I tried shooting with it by hand and it works great, surprisingly quiet and I've learned a lot about how the whole thing works this way. 

It looks like this when slowed down currently. It's recurve competition season currently so I haven't picked it up in a while. When I've got the time I'm planning to get comfortable with my release and grip so that they're relaxed and consistent, and tune it propertly. I've got a spare pressure button on it but I've had to stiffen it up basically all the way to get the bareshafts of my stiffest arrows (ACE 470s, should be about right in the Easton charts) vaguely straight, though I can probably get a nicer button pressure by decreasing the point weight from 120 to 90 gr. I'm a bit surprised about that as with the same draw weight on a recurve, I can get a much weaker (620 spine) shaft to fly nicely.


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## Andrew.Neri (12 mo ago)

joel308cal said:


> I’m still shooting my CSS System 1 for 3D and a System 2 for hunting. If you have any questions or concerns hit me up. I’m still in constant contact with Mr. Nease who was the owner of CSS. He’s still shooting those CSS bows as well lol. Some things are are meant to be.......
> 
> 
> BTW, what you have there is a original System 2. More than likely it’s a 60-70lbs bow. If it’s topping off at 77lbs then the string is certainly stretched bad. You look to have the 15.5” limbs which would make that bow about 37-38” axle to axle.


Hello I'm new to the forum and new to archery. I am current in possession of a CSS Bow that had been handed down to me by my father. Short story, he was deployed a lot in Afghanistan and I'm assuming in their free time on base held archery tournaments. After one of his deployments he just gave it to me to hold on to. So my bow has some sentimental history and value to me. Anyway my dad's draw is a little too short for me and was told to see if I can find new cams (Forgive my lack of knowledge) to increase the draw length. 


Is this system even worth updating or should I just keep it packed up and go out and find something new?

















Andrew


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## mshockey (Nov 24, 2013)

Andrew.Neri said:


> Hello I'm new to the forum and new to archery. I am current in possession of a CSS Bow that had been handed down to me by my father. Short story, he was deployed a lot in Afghanistan and I'm assuming in their free time on base held archery tournaments. After one of his deployments he just gave it to me to hold on to. So my bow has some sentimental history and value to me. Anyway my dad's draw is a little too short for me and was told to see if I can find new cams (Forgive my lack of knowledge) to increase the draw length.
> 
> 
> Is this system even worth updating or should I just keep it packed up and go out and find something new?
> ...


Hi Andrew,
Welcome to the forum. Very nice bow your father has left you and I understand the sentimental values attached with it. Here are a couple suggestions to consider. Since you said you were new to archery one of the biggest problems new archers have is getting their correct draw length. As ones form develops most find their draw length changes (usually shorter). I would recomend a bow with rotating draw modules so you can adjust draw as needed. You would be able to use all the accessories and arrows from your dads bow which would save you some money. 

After spending some time shooting and developing your form you will have a better understanding on what you will need to convert your fathers bow to fit you. If you truly want to shoot this bow finding cams will be a challenge, new string and cables will be required as well. For the cams EBay and patience will be your best friend. You may have to purchase a complete bow just for the cams. Do you know the model of the bow? Do you have any charts for cam sizes or string lengths? If not you might post in the General Archery discussion section there may be some members here that would have that information. Here are some cost estimates: New strings and cables $75.00 to $125.00, Cams $50.00 to $200.00 depending on whether you can stumble on cams only or have to buy a complete bow.
Hope this helped, good luck.


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## Andrew.Neri (12 mo ago)

mshockey said:


> Hi Andrew,
> Welcome to the forum. Very nice bow your father has left you and I understand the sentimental values attached with it. Here are a couple suggestions to consider. Since you said you were new to archery one of the biggest problems new archers have is getting their correct draw length. As ones form develops most find their draw length changes (usually shorter). I would recomend a bow with rotating draw modules so you can adjust draw as needed. You would be able to use all the accessories and arrows from your dads bow which would save you some money.
> 
> After spending some time shooting and developing your form you will have a better understanding on what you will need to convert your fathers bow to fit you. If you truly want to shoot this bow finding cams will be a challenge, new string and cables will be required as well. For the cams EBay and patience will be your best friend. You may have to purchase a complete bow just for the cams. Do you know the model of the bow? Do you have any charts for cam sizes or string lengths? If not you might post in the General Archery discussion section there may be some members here that would have that information. Here are some cost estimates: New strings and cables $75.00 to $125.00, Cams $50.00 to $200.00 depending on whether you can stumble on cams only or have to buy a complete bow.
> Hope this helped, good luck.


I was trying to find online some info about this bow. The only thing I have as for part numbers is in the picture with the label that is about it. 

When looking online or eBay rather what are some keywords to get the right results? I wish I knew the model to find exact matches as I figure I can't just use any ol run of the mill cam.


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## mshockey (Nov 24, 2013)

I am not familar with the CSS bows myself. I would run a thread in the General Archery discussion forum with heading of "CSS bow identification needed". Include your pictures above. Ask if anyone has a link to manuals, string or cam specifications. I'm sure someone will reply with some information.


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## joel308cal (Nov 17, 2017)

Andrew.Neri said:


> Hello I'm new to the forum and new to archery. I am current in possession of a CSS Bow that had been handed down to me by my father. Short story, he was deployed a lot in Afghanistan and I'm assuming in their free time on base held archery tournaments. After one of his deployments he just gave it to me to hold on to. So my bow has some sentimental history and value to me. Anyway my dad's draw is a little too short for me and was told to see if I can find new cams (Forgive my lack of knowledge) to increase the draw length.
> 
> 
> Is this system even worth updating or should I just keep it packed up and go out and find something new?
> ...


Andrew, what you have there is a System bow. From the pic, the limbs appear to be 14.5” which would make the ATA 37”. I do have extra modules for those cams but I would need to know your draw length first. A good place to start is a local shop where your draw length can be measured. I still shoot my 1996 System bows for hunting and 3D(Sr. Open class).


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## kballer1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Hey Andrew welcome to AT, you should stay in contact with Joel308cal as he knows the person that designed that bow & should be able to get you any information that you may want. Sounds like he has access to cams or mods for that bow which would be hard to find. Good luck with the bow & good shooting.


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