# Anyone else see local "ringers" struggle at ASA ????



## headhunter68 (Mar 26, 2010)

I shoot allot of 3d at about 6 clubs in my area. I know several guys who shoot on ranges that are in my experience every bit as tough as the ASA ranges with yardages out to 50. These guys shoot in there regular groups and are more often than not finishing 4-12 points up. Now............ when they shoot ASA events they always shoot about 20 down??????????? I'm losing respect for the way local ranges operate these days. I enjoy shooting with friends, but I've come to realize that the fairness of the event will never be shown as long as those groups of two or three have no respect for the other competitors. I shoot dots with some of those guys and it doesn't stand to reason that a guy who can't hit a 1 inch circle at 20 yards can hammer 12 rings all day at 40 yards in the wind and guessing yardage. 

If it were one or two guys I would not [email protected]#$, but I see it with allot of them..... hopefully you guys don't have the same issue at your clubs.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

So you never struggle in larger shoots. Believe me many dont shoot there best at ASA events.
DB


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

Tell you what I do if I think that is happening, I ask them if I can shoot with them. Takes care of your curiosity.


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## Arkarcher (Jan 20, 2005)

Daniel Boone said:


> So you never struggle in larger shoots. Believe me many dont shoot there best at ASA events.
> DB


I agree 100% because I'm one of these guys.

It's niching for me to shoot 10-22 up locally on 25 targets, BUT we shoot center 12s and the ranges are nothing like the Open A ranges I have shotthos year.

Also this was only my 3rd ASA, and I'm getting there, so hopefully the ASA scores will get closer to my local scores with time and adjustments.


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## Arkarcher (Jan 20, 2005)

jimb said:


> Tell you what I do if I think that is happening, I ask them if I can shoot with them. Takes care of your curiosity.


That's 100% correct, when I started shooting good at a young age one of the club presidents ask to shoot with me, I knew why and was perfectly ok with it, he did and I shot my beat score to date then, ha.


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## shot2deer (Mar 18, 2008)

It takes them out of there normal comfortable shooting group. Most of the time when you shoot with people you don't know you will be uncomfortable. Just my 2 cents.


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## okarcher (Jul 21, 2002)

Shooting good at locals is nothing like shooting good at major events total different set of circumstances. I was one of those guys til I was able to overcome the mental part of shooting at majors. I still struggle at majors sometimes I put more preasure on myself than at locals. Not all the guys who shoot well at locals are cheaters just because they struggle at majors 2 totally different games.


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## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

jimb said:


> Tell you what I do if I think that is happening, I ask them if I can shoot with them. Takes care of your curiosity.


Agree & maybe you'll see why they shoot so good. Alot of "local ranges" never change there lanes so it's tough to get your yardage messed up when you shoot it regularly.


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## greimer (Feb 13, 2007)

I am still working on the big shoots...I have only finished good 1 time out of about 15, But at local I finish good most of the time


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## headhunter68 (Mar 26, 2010)

Daniel Boone said:


> So you never struggle in larger shoots. Believe me many dont shoot there best at ASA events.
> DB



Still not buying a 30 plus point average difference for each 20 target range in the big events. A guy who shoots 10 points up regularly on ranges that are every bit as challenging as any ASA 40 yard range I've ever seen should not drop below 180 during the big events. 

Unless of course he has an unfair advantage or either knowing the yardage on a local course as mentioned above or he is pencil whipping a score card.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

It happens allot more than you think! Just watch the IBO scores and when these same shooters head to the worlds and get peered up and have shooting times they seem to fall apart, I can see dropping 10 points because of nerves but not 15-20 points! I love to see the local backyard range champions head to pro Ams and shoot like it is their first time with a bow in their hands!!! Buddy groups will always hurt the sport!!!!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

headhunter68 said:


> Still not buying a 30 plus point average difference for each 20 target range in the big events. A guy who shoots 10 points up regularly on ranges that are every bit as challenging as any ASA 40 yard range I've ever seen should not drop below 180 during the big events.
> 
> Unless of course he has an unfair advantage or either knowing the yardage on a local course as mentioned above or he is pencil whipping a score card.


Pretty simple go shoot with them. But lets compare your scores locally at pro ams. Ill bet anything there lower. Just saying.
DB


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

its called pencil whipping


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## possum trapper (Nov 24, 2005)

Archery on a national level(or at any level) is a very individual sport.You can get taken out of your element very quickly if you let the venue get in your head and you begin to think that its bigger than it really is.You have to prove yourself in the national tourneys otherwise we could just sit back at home and mail your scores in.Why would you concern yourself about the local shoots?They dont really matter and it just shows ya most are taken out of their game and the scores drop at the big time shoots


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## bowhntnarkansas (Oct 25, 2007)

Been there and I do that! That is shoot down at the big shoots. Let me give you an example, yesterday I shot with a group that was chatty and having a blast shooting. I shot 2 down and was in 17th place, 6 up was leading our range. Today, pier grouped. My group today not as chatty and not near as much fun I shot 19 down today. I had way to much time to talk myself into shooting bad today. Yesterday I was more relaxed, felt like I was shooting with friends. If I have a good group I shoot better, If I have a not so good group I shoot a not so good score.


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## headhunter68 (Mar 26, 2010)

Shooting with friends would make you more comfortable to an extent. Golfers score worse in tournaments because the course setup is dramatically more difficult which is understandable. 
The 3D course is not any more difficult in a major ASA event than the ones we shoot every weekend so I still have to wonder........... are archers minds so week that many dye on the vine under pressure or do SOME (not all) have ways to gain advantages in local shoots that bend the rules a little.


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## Arkarcher (Jan 20, 2005)

headhunter68 said:


> Shooting with friends would make you more comfortable to an extent. Golfers score worse in tournaments because the course setup is dramatically more difficult which is understandable.
> The 3D course is not any more difficult in a major ASA event than the ones we shoot every weekend so I still have to wonder........... are archers minds so week that many dye on the vine under pressure or do SOME (not all) have ways to gain advantages in local shoots that bend the rules a little.



I'm probably in the minority but my weeken shoots are not NEAR as challenging. Not even close.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

headhunter68 said:


> Shooting with friends would make you more comfortable to an extent. Golfers score worse in tournaments because the course setup is dramatically more difficult which is understandable.
> The 3D course is not any more difficult in a major ASA event than the ones we shoot every weekend so I still have to wonder........... are archers minds so week that many dye on the vine under pressure or do SOME (not all) have ways to gain advantages in local shoots that bend the rules a little.


Your fishing for answers. Most everyone knows local scores are higher and some for the reasons you mention, scoring there own arrows.

Simple answer is break the groups up and scores go down. Pretty obvious. But the added pressure of a pro ams is tough on many.
DB


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## headhunter68 (Mar 26, 2010)

Arkarcher said:


> I'm probably in the minority but my weeken shoots are not NEAR as challenging. Not even close.


Ours are more difficult on average, this weekend we shot 20 targets , we shoot a 50 max, all unknown, 4 shots were over 45 with 2 on the max and one of those was javalina, the other a warthog, average shot is probably 38-39 with the shortest being 32 this weekend.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Besides the obvious reasons that nobody he could verify if we werent there = so I wont speculate on that.

Its such a mind game, this sport at times. We can be our own worst enemy.

When I was shooting alot, I went to one ASA national event. I didnt shoot pro or semi pro. But I actually shot absolutely lights out. I made better shots all weekend than I ever consistently did at the local tourneys.

For me it was the opposite. I went where nobody knew me, up home they all knew I shot alot (not necessarily good) they knew I worked at a shop so they expected high scores from me. I did "Ok" at best - but when I went to the big shoot. I was on fire.

Could have just been one of those days, but it will always stick in my head. So if I do another this summer I will have that confidence, false or not to play off of.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Any local shoot I shot in I sign up and pay just for practice. I get my notebook out guess the yardage write it down range the animal write down the the correct distance and shoot the target for the correct distance everytime. Local tournaments just allow me to practice for any Pro Ams I may attend during the year!


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

If i'm not mistaken e,f range this weekend was a,b for the pros. On e range we had 11 39.5+ targets. I didn't count them on f but it was a lot shorter. I don't go to many local shoots but they're usually about a 33, 34 yard average and then asa's are 37,38+. Those few extra yards make a difference. I pretty much shoot the same everywhere. I make a few good shots, a few bad shots, and a bunch of decent ones.


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

It happens. The weekend before my first ever ASA in Gainesville this year I shot a personal best 21 up. I was shooting with my wife and three other guys I never shot with on a new course for me. I went to the event and shot 6 up over ten targets in the team shoot. When it came time to shoot the course on Saturday, I shot 30 down. Complete melt down. Day two I brought it up shooting one down but still posted a score that is well below what I am used to shooting. Like some have already said. Just shoot with them to satisfy the curiosity.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

*Anyone else see local "ringers" struggle at ASA ????*

I know several top shooters on the local circuits around me. They are good, but when shooting on the national level they are just another "also ran." National level is different. The atmosphere, the people (good, but you don't know them like at home). The range is usually set up for just your class, not mixed distances. And the walk of the range is not like at home. My range at Metro last year was a "loop," 10 targets down one side and 10 target up the other side. All groups shot, scored, pulled, returned and moved to the next target at the same time throughout - say synchronized machine. 6 in my group and it took 4 hours to shoot 20 targets and it seemed like we were moving at a pretty good clip.

On the "home range" I usually just shoot for center and let bonus points come. This past Saturday I shot with a group I don't regularly shoot with and they wanted to shoot for the ASA low 12. I got my butt kicked and just last month at the same range I took High Overall and right after that I shot High Overall in the Illinois ASA DAIR Indoor Qualifier. Yep, you go play someone's game and it happens. Okay, I go to this club just to have fun and had it in my mind to do just that. And then going for low 12s upset my game plan. Still, I had fun.

On the up side, in my group was a true gentleman, Steve Boylan, 3 time Vegas Senior Pro winner. The man is just like one the guys. Of course I had my ears open as Steve will indeed give you helpful hints.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

We often see the opposite problem here. Scores are better at the national shoots. Our local ranges are often MUCH harder than ASA shoots. Hillier, more deceptive, no side by side lanes, longer, etc.. And the competition is every bit as tough cause there are fewer classes for the better shooters. They all shoot the same class locally pretty much.

Now there's an occasional score one might question, but they are usually not ASA shooters. I wish they were.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

Sorry I'll try to do better:smile:


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Daniel Boone said:


> So you never struggle in larger shoots. Believe me many dont shoot there best at ASA events.
> DB


DB is telling you the way it is, very stiff competition no matter what class you shoot


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## whitetail101 (Aug 10, 2007)

It is not only prevelant in ASA shoots, but I have seen it on the IBO courses as well.

I have seen scores at the local club shoots that were consistantly up or even week after week on a 30 target course, but when these same individuals get on the course at the national level, their score even for just 30 targets out of 40 is no where near what they claim to get at a local tournament.

I am not saying that all local club shooters are this way, but there are quite a few I know of first hand that can't hold a candle to their local club score on the national tournament course.


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## headhunter68 (Mar 26, 2010)

3Dblackncamo said:


> DB is telling you the way it is, very stiff competition no matter what class you shoot


Not even talking about where you are placing so competition level has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about an individuals score compared to even. 

And all shooters in my group agree that we shoot tougher ranges weekly than the shoots at ASA pro ams.


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## LadyBowhunter63 (Feb 3, 2010)

The added preasure of wanting to to well, shooting with folks you don't know, out of your comfort zone. I know many good shooters that go to the big ASA event, and can't shoot nearly as well as they do at home (myself included). For me it's a mental thing, always thinking I have to do well. Put to much pressure on myself, and then screw up! I don't think it's always pencil whipping, but if in doubt, just shoot with these guys and see what they are doing.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

whitetail101 said:


> It is not only prevelant in ASA shoots, but I have seen it on the IBO courses as well.
> 
> I have seen scores at the local club shoots that were consistantly up or even week after week on a 30 target course, but when these same individuals get on the course at the national level, their score even for just 30 targets out of 40 is no where near what they claim to get at a local tournament.
> 
> I am not saying that all local club shooters are this way, but there are quite a few I know of first hand that can't hold a candle to their local club score on the national tournament course.



I shoot pretty consistently about everywhere now, but i've shot asa 11 years (from the first one til now, except a 6 year gap in the middle when I quit shooting). I know when I was in young adult class I always shot in men's open or pro at local courses and often would shoot way up. I won a lot of shoots in men's classes when I was a kid. However it took me 2 or 3 years to lose the nervousness of asa's. I would shoot 20 up at home and 20 down at asa's. Then I finally got to where I wasn't nervous anymore and took 3rd three times in '03 in young adult. I quit shooting for a few years after 03 and since I have came back i'll usually shoot even to 10 up about everywhere I go. Point is that asa's have a tendency to make people extremely nervous and talk theirselves out of shooting good. At metro one year I was leading after first day, and still leading with 3 targets left. When I found out I was leading I go so nervous that I shot like 3 five's in a row and ended up third.


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## Arkarcher (Jan 20, 2005)

asa_low12 said:


> I shoot pretty consistently about everywhere now, but i've shot asa 11 years (from the first one til now, except a 6 year gap in the middle when I quit shooting). I know when I was in young adult class I always shot in men's open or pro at local courses and often would shoot way up. I won a lot of shoots in men's classes when I was a kid. However it took me 2 or 3 years to lose the nervousness of asa's. I would shoot 20 up at home and 20 down at asa's. Then I finally got to where I wasn't nervous anymore and took 3rd three times in '03 in young adult. I quit shooting for a few years after 03 and since I have came back i'll usually shoot even to 10 up about everywhere I go. Point is that asa's have a tendency to make people extremely nervous and talk theirselves out of shooting good. At metro one year I was leading after first day, and still leading with 3 targets left. When I found out I was leading I go so nervous that I shot like 3 five's in a row and ended up third.


I'm the same exact way. I shoot great locally, but can't conquer the bigger shoots yet, getting there, but not quite there yet.


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## Arkarcher (Jan 20, 2005)

headhunter68 said:


> Not even talking about where you are placing so competition level has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about an individuals score compared to even.
> 
> And all shooters in my group agree that we shoot tougher ranges weekly than the shoots at ASA pro ams.


I wish I had ranges locally that were tough, ASAs are the only time I see a tough range, which makes practicing even tougher.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I lost my shooting buddy last year and have been shooting with random groups for the last year and a half, for the most part I have found that people are scoring fair and the same each week. What I have really found is that it is making me more credible because I win or finish in the top 3 a lot of the time and I am showing that to a lot of people instead of just the same group of friends. I also think it is making me better because I can shoot with almost any personality that I get grouped with where before certain guys would suck the life out of me.

That may be the problem with many of the local guys who struggle at a big event that is out of their territory, they have to shoot with random guys and they don't know how to do that. Also your score will be at least 15 points lower when you shoot asa bulleseyes ccompared to center 12's if not more.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

The Black Helicopters are circling. :spy:


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Enormous difference between national and local shoots! I don't know whom your speaking of, but I'm willing to bet (a diet coke) that your suspicion is false. Why? Because if they are cheaters, why in the devil would they want to spend all that money to compete in a national event? If they're cheating localy, they know they don't have a snow balls chance in August of doing well at a national event.
Just doesn't make sense
If your going to Call some one a cheater, u better have some dang proof


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

WOW I think I just figured out who the op is calling out.May be time to start stirring the pot.:box:


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## Bowtech11 (Mar 21, 2006)

J Whittington said:


> Enormous difference between national and local shoots! I don't know whom your speaking of, but I'm willing to bet (a diet coke) that your suspicion is false. Why? Because if they are cheaters, why in the devil would they want to spend all that money to compete in a national event? If they're cheating localy, they know they don't have a snow balls chance in August of doing well at a national event.
> Just doesn't make sense
> If your going to Call some one a cheater, u better have some dang proof


Touch a nerve, dang


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

would you please explain the comment. Touch a nerve... I don 't get it,,,maybe im dumb


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## FoggDogg (Jul 9, 2002)

National shoots are a whole different animal. Do you think all the big dawg pros shoot even or a little down at home shoots? Look at the scores to see where they finish. Do you usually shoot the same scores in a spot league that you do at a state shoot? It's not the shooting that is different, it's the mental game. There are and always will be pencil pushers in anything where there is something to win, especially money. But, IMHO, the difference is the mental aspect of the bigger tourneys.


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## TANC (Mar 14, 2005)

Take beta blockers. You'll find no one shoot is more nerve damaging than another. :wink: Works in golf, too.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

TANC said:


> Take beta blockers. You'll find no one shoot is more nerve damaging than another. :wink: Works in golf, too.


For the people that don't know about beta blockers, DON'T TAKE THEM. They are as illegal as they can be in archery and golf. You might as well cheat on your scorecard if your going to do that.


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## hophunt (Aug 21, 2007)

I think you also have to look at the difference between a one day local/club shoot and a two day national. There are a ton of factors involved in the weekend that people don't think about. At a local shoot you didn't spend $400 - $800 on the weekend. So the anxienty of reclaiming some of your cash impacts mental focus, not sleeping in your normal bed causes lack of rest for many, there are way too many to list, but they do exist and do show on the scorecards. It is also difficult to consistantly put up back to back good days. I feel on any given day I am capable of 10 - 20 up. I generally will shoot that locally, and at least one of the two days at a national, but for some reason I struggle to do two consecutive days at a national.


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## bowmedic (Jun 2, 2004)

I shot Paris this last weekend as my first National Pro Am. I dont care what you say, its a totally different shoot than a local shoot. The wait between targets is enough to get in the way of a good rythym of shooting. You have to wait to score arrows, you wait to shoot. You can get cold fast.. Plus the pressure of watvhing your score constantly. The mental part of the game is totally different..


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

asa_low12 said:


> For the people that don't know about beta blockers, DON'T TAKE THEM. They are as illegal as they can be in archery and golf. You might as well cheat on your scorecard if your going to do that.


Where is that rule listed in archery? What org?


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

J Whittington said:


> Where is that rule listed in archery? What org?


Whatever org it is that Cousins, Gellenthein, etc.. shoot in. The ones held all over the world. I don't know what the name of the org is but I know they shoot for USA.

I also know theres some controversy over shooters taking them in the past, and I know that ASA has a no drug policy. So if your taking prescription drugs that aren't prescribed to you then your breaking it I would assume. My assumptions aren't always right though so don't take my word for it as far as ASA.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Sometimes...it's a mental game...that psychs you out for the national events because you know it is a national event. Not something around home to where you really don't have a care in the world to shoot.


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## jjw3 (Mar 20, 2006)

cenochs said:


> It happens allot more than you think! Just watch the IBO scores and when these same shooters head to the worlds and get peered up and have shooting times they seem to fall apart, I can see dropping 10 points because of nerves but not 15-20 points! I love to see the local backyard range champions head to pro Ams and shoot like it is their first time with a bow in their hands!!! Buddy groups will always hurt the sport!!!!


yeah, I agree. I'll also go ahead and say it "IBO buddies are the ones affected most". Almost every backyard champion i know shoots IBO exclusively-no ASA proams. You mention ASA and they say "well I like ibo because I can shoot through when I want to and take my buddies so we can split expenses"


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

jjw3 said:


> yeah, I agree. I'll also go ahead and say it "IBO buddies are the ones affected most". Almost every backyard champion i know shoots IBO exclusively-no ASA proams. You mention ASA and they say "well I like ibo because I can shoot through when I want to and take my buddies so we can split expenses"


As i'm sure you know it's very easy to take your buddies and split expenses to ASA too.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

asa_low12 said:


> As i'm sure you know it's very easy to take your buddies and split expenses to ASA too.


He is refering to the fact that the IBO does not do a good job of busting groups. No start times, show up with your shooting buddies and go out on the course together.


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## headhunter68 (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm about to vomit reading all the reasons the scores drop 30 points on twenty targets at an ASA................ it's too tough on me mentally, we have to wait between shots, I had to shoot with a guy who was looking at me...... give me a break. Sounds like romper room.


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## SNAPTHIS (Jan 16, 2003)

Most all of the differences both mental and phyical between an ASA national event and a local tournament have already been stated and these are all part of the equation between winning and being an also ran at both a local event and a national event. The biggest difference I see in doing well, ie: winning at a national level is the mind set of the competitors. Most of the people I shoot against have no chance of winning or even placing do to their thought process involving why they are there, what it takes to win, confidence in their own shot and ability to judge so they are an also ran before the tournament even begins. I believe there are only 10 to 15% of the competitors at any given event that are capable of winning and this percentage probably shrinks even more when you are talking about a two day national event. If you considered how many people you know that shoot 3d and how many people you know that have even one first,second or third place trophy from a national event or better yet how many do you know that have 5 plaques from ASA national events bet you can count them on one hand or less. Your belief in yourself is first and foremost if you are going to have a chance and every now and then if you've prepared properly it's going to be your day!!!!!!!!!!!


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

SNAPTHIS said:


> Most all of the differences both mental and phyical between an ASA national event and a local tournament have already been stated and these are all part of the equation between winning and being an also ran at both a local event and a national event. The biggest difference I see in doing well, ie: winning at a national level is the mind set of the competitors. Most of the people I shoot against have no chance of winning or even placing do to their thought process involving why they are there, what it takes to win, confidence in their own shot and ability to judge so they are an also ran before the tournament even begins. I believe there are only 10 to 15% of the competitors at any given event that are capable of winning and this percentage probably shrinks even more when you are talking about a two day national event. If you considered how many people you know that shoot 3d and how many people you know that have even one first,second or third place trophy from a national event or better yet how many do you know that have 5 plaques from ASA national events bet you can count them on one hand or less. Your belief in yourself is first and foremost if you are going to have a chance and every now and then if you've prepared properly it's going to be your day!!!!!!!!!!!


That last statement is totally true. You have to have confidence and that comes with getting familar with people at ASA's and how the whole event is ran and what is to expect. Then if you prepare yourself 100% it might just end up being your day(s).

I remember the first ASA I went to. I won nearly every shoot I went to locally and thought it was going to be a cakewalk. I learned REAL fast that this wasn't a local shoot. There was other kids there that were amazing. Levi, Danny Evans, and McCarthy(I believe) were a few of them. Intimidation could also be a factor with a lot of the local ringers. When your used to being top dog and get put in your place it messes with you. If your very competitive though it's only going to make you want it that much more.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

asa_low12 said:


> For the people that don't know about beta blockers, DON'T TAKE THEM. They are as illegal as they can be in archery and golf. You might as well cheat on your scorecard if your going to do that.


I take Beta-Blockers for high blood pressure. That would mean I have to quit shooting competitively. If you don't need beta-blockers they can make your heart rate and blood pressure dangerously low.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

asa_low12 said:


> Whatever org it is that Cousins, Gellenthein, etc.. shoot in. The ones held all over the world. I don't know what the name of the org is but I know they shoot for USA.
> 
> I also know theres some controversy over shooters taking them in the past, and I know that ASA has a no drug policy. So if your taking *prescription drugs that aren't prescribed to you* then your breaking it I would assume. My assumptions aren't always right though so don't take my word for it as far as ASA.





TAYLOR CO. said:


> I take Beta-Blockers for high blood pressure. That would mean I have to quit shooting competitively. If you don't need beta-blockers they can make your heart rate and blood pressure dangerously low.


ttt


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## shooter280 (Mar 8, 2010)

okarcher said:


> Shooting good at locals is nothing like shooting good at major events total different set of circumstances. I was one of those guys til I was able to overcome the mental part of shooting at majors. I still struggle at majors sometimes I put more preasure on myself than at locals. Not all the guys who shoot well at locals are cheaters just because they struggle at majors 2 totally different games.


you nailed it! Our local shoots are nothing alike! we never shoot 3d targets that are angled like some of the higher classes in asa! it makes a hugh difference..


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## Bowtech54 (Sep 20, 2006)

I agree with most........it's like comparing apples to oranges. ASA or National IBO shoots are totally different. You add unwanted pressure on yourself without knowing. Shoot with those folks to answer your question. Pressure again gets to alot of people different ways and at different places. Have a bless day.


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## jjw3 (Mar 20, 2006)

jimb said:


> He is refering to the fact that the IBO does not do a good job of busting groups. No start times, show up with your shooting buddies and go out on the course together.


thanks for the backup. Im done.


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## redfish (Jul 13, 2005)

We don't seem to have that problem around here. The guys that shoot lights-out in the local shoots down here cash a lot of Asa's checks. It defiantly makes you work on your game if you want to be competitive.


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## sharptrenton (Jul 8, 2006)

I shot with a guy that shot all the time. he would shoot alot everyday and would shoot 2 local shoots every weekend and usually shot 15-20 up at the local shoots but for some reason when he went to the ASA pro-ams he would fall apart and shoot 10-15 down on 40 targets. If I hadn't shot with him I would have thought he was cheating at the local shoots which in my mind are harder than the ASA shoots. The mental game of the national shoots really gets to some people and they blow up and shoot bad.


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