# Pin gaps



## Doug10 (Dec 13, 2005)

Looking for some advice on pin gaps. I currently have a 20 30 40 and shoot hc and thinkin about trying advance hunter class. Seems like I miss the most 11's because I have a bad habit of holding a 35 yd shot on at my 30 pin and the same for a 26 and 20 pin. Was considering going to a 20, 28, 35 setup or something of the sorts. I have not been to the worlds yet but can only imagine most shots being 28-35 in hc. Local shoots tend to stretch targets to 40 for hc. What is everyone's take? I have 3 .019 pins on my cbe tek hunter pro. Shooting around 305 or 308fps

I think if I decide to shoot advanced hc my pins might be good at. 20 30 40. I am normally within a yard or 3 when I judge my distance but just find myself struggling to not want to hold a pin on for In between yardages.


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## EnglishKev (Aug 8, 2009)

No matter what you set your pins for, you will have targets at 'between' ranges.
If you have difficulty in 'bracketing' the kill between pins, I suggest picking a spot above the kill to put your pin on.

Kev


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## mt_elkhunter (Feb 28, 2010)

This is what I do as well. I have pins setup as 10 yd increments from 20-60 since I actually just use my hunting setup. I don't think we have had a shot past 45 yds this year, but I will look at the target and if it is 45 yds I will either go 50 on brisket area or 40 high. Works well


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Ahc this year I use 37.5-34-29


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## osagebender (Feb 24, 2013)

I like 20-30-40. I always like to have a 20yd pin for indoors or the range. AHC is max 40yd and I like to have a pin on my max yards.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

AHC has a max of 40 yards. Pin settings depend quite a bit depends on arrow speed, the diameter of your pins, eye sight and the distance from your eye to the pins. You definitely have the right idea about changing your pin settings. I know a few years ago some of the best AHC guys used only two pins. 

I used 3 .010 pins when I shot AHC. By using the top of the pin (top of the pin touching the "spot" to hit), the middle of the pin (hold on the "spot") and the bottom of the pin (bottom of the pin on the "spot" to hit) each pin represented 3 distances to me. For example, if a pin was set for say 32 yards holding dead on then I would learn exactly where the top of the pin hit perfect (say 28 yards) and also where the bottom of the pin hit (say 35 yards). This way I avoided blindly "gapping" and instead aimed precisely with some part of the pin.

To figure my pin settings I start with the max distance of the class and in this case it is 40. My longest pin was set on about 38 yards. I figure about the shortest pin I needed was 24 yards. There's little reason to have a pin set on the max distance. Sure you will have occasional 41 - 42 yard targets but you are going to have MANY more targets where a 38 yard pin will be used and it will be held within the ten wring. With a 295 fps arrow the bottom of a 38 yard pin would still be touching the ten ring on a 40 yard target.

1. I would set my middle pin precisely in the middle of my scope housing. This pin generally never moves again unless the entire sight housing moves.
2. I make sure I'm on the bale and then back up to about 32 yards and set my middle pin by moving the sight housing no the pin.
3. Set my last pin such that there is a bit of light between the 2nd and third pins. Go back to 38 yards and set the pin by moving the pin NOT the housing.
4. I then set my first pin with a bit of day light between pins 1 and 2. Walk up to about 24 yards and see where it hits.

I was shooting about 295 fps the last time I shot IBO. I can understand why the guys shooting 320 fps only wanted two pins in the sight. It doesn't really matter the precise distance the pins are set on. It is however important that you KNOW how to use them at varying distances! I HAD to have a decent amount of day light between my pins so I could cleanly identify where I was aiming.

A pin setting of something like 24, 32 and 38 pretty much lets you always aim with a pin in the 10 ring on any distance target. The pin settings are not cast in stone though the longest pin should not be much over 38.5 yards. I actually have a harder time choosing the short pin setting but it's less critical since there is less trajectory at the shortest distances. If it happens to fall on 23 yards I probably wouldn't move it. As long as you know your arrows trajectory and how to _precisely _aim at varying distances your good.

Knowing how to shoot your pins precisely is really critical in ASA when you need to at least occasionally aim at 12's. Shooting at center 11's is much less critical.


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## Doug10 (Dec 13, 2005)

Ken, thanks so much for the info. I wish i knew what you have forgotten. After another mediocre round this past week with a lot of 35yd low shots, i decided to go from 20/30/40 in HC to a 25/35 setup. We will see how it does. If i keep 3 pins with my lowest being 23-25 i would have not much room between pins. Im hoping if i hold low in the 10 with top pin i will be good for 18-23 and if i hold high in the 10 i would be good for 27-30 and holding the 35 low would be good for 30-32/33 and so on. 

Am I on a decent track? I think I'm at around 308 on speed with a 325-328gn arrow.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Great advice Kent


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

For HC I'm shooting a 28 and a 35 yard pin. The 28 is the one that I use the most and I do use the top of the pin, holding dead on, and the bottom of the pin for various yardages. I agree with the above about not necessarily needing a max yardage pin. At 311fps I can not do 33 yards for the second pin (although I wish I could) without decreasing the yardage of the top pin and that's not negotiable.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Doug10 said:


> Ken, thanks so much for the info. I wish i knew what you have forgotten. After another mediocre round this past week with a lot of 35yd low shots, i decided to go from 20/30/40 in HC to a 25/35 setup. We will see how it does. If i keep 3 pins with my lowest being 23-25 i would have not much room between pins. Im hoping if i hold low in the 10 with top pin i will be good for 18-23 and if i hold high in the 10 i would be good for 27-30 and holding the 35 low would be good for 30-32/33 and so on.
> 
> Am I on a decent track? I think I'm at around 308 on speed with a 325-328gn arrow.


It's easy enough to figure out. Draw 10 ring circles on card board with a 2" dot in the middle. Now starting at 20 yards shoot at the dot and see what you have. Take 2 steps back and shoot. Continue doing this back to 42 yards until you understand where you need to aim and HOW to aim. Test BOTH pins on 39 - 32 yard targets. On a 3D course you may have a target that is best shot with one pin better than the other. Start shooting at 42 yards and work your way forward. You'll get a feel for it. It becomes almost instinctive as you find what works for you.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Sean243 said:


> For HC I'm shooting a 28 and a 35 yard pin. The 28 is the one that I use the most and I do use the top of the pin, holding dead on, and the bottom of the pin for various yardages. I agree with the above about not necessarily needing a max yardage pin. At 311fps I can not do 33 yards for the second pin (although I wish I could) without decreasing the yardage of the top pin and that's not negotiable.


I started with same pins as you last year but found quick that I was always holding off. Imo you need a pin set at you average distance for your class hc would probably be 30-31.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

This year I am ahc so I have 29,34,38


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I came up with a blue fiber scope that has black tubing and uses a Lp light kit so you only see the pin you want and nothing else and the other pins aren't there distracting you. Three pins one up one down and one side.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

stoz said:


> This year I am ahc so I have 29,34,38


I know I wouldn't be able to use pins that close together but if it works for you that is all that matters. For IBO AHC and ASA Bowhunter both of which are 40 yard classes I had a 38 yard pin and then 32 and 24 or 25 yard pins. The precise yardage is unique to the archer and not real important as long as it works.



stoz said:


> I came up with a blue fiber scope that has black tubing and uses a Lp light kit so you only see the pin you want and nothing else and the other pins aren't there distracting you. Three pins one up one down and one side.


That sounds ideal!


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Kstigall said:


> I know I wouldn't be able to use pins that close together but if it works for you that is all that matters. For IBO AHC and ASA Bowhunter both of which are 40 yard classes I had a 38 yard pin and then 32 and 24 or 25 yard pins. The precise yardage is unique to the archer and not real important as long as it works.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds ideal!


Ill try to post a pic tonite. Works great. Working on a 4 pin too. Shrewd is awesome.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Inch Drop Card
1. Take a ruler and a piece of paper and a few new paper plates out to the target.

2. Put a black one inch dot on the top of the first paper plate and put it on the target.

3. Go to 22 yards and start shooting at the dot using the 20 yard pin and let the arrow drop under the dot. Shoot enough arrows to be sure and then measure the inch drop and write it down for 22

4. now go to 24 26 28 yards and do the same thing always aiming at the dot on the top with the 20 yard pin and letting the arrow drop below so that you can measure the inch drop.

5. I also at 28 yards like to use my 30 yard pin and get a inch rise number because depending on the target sometimes there is a marker below the 12 ring and aiming with the 30 yard pin below and hitting above is the way to go.

6. Now put up a new paper plate and go to 32 yards and do the same process using your 30 yard pin at 32 34 36 38 yards 

What this allows you to do is aim at exact spots on a target and let the arrow hit the 12 ring below the spot you are aiming at. For example if I am shooting a 24 yard target and my inch drop card says 1.75 inches then I look through my binos and find the 12 ring and then look above for a marker 1.75 inches above and that is what I aim at.

It usually only takes me a couple days to make a good inch drop card from 20 to 50 yards and then I like to laminate it on a nice small 3x5 index card or something and I put a small cord on it so it hangs from my quiver so I can get to it easily each shot.
Socket Man


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't care if you have 20 30 40 or 25 35 etc as your pin settings, you are going to have to aim a little high or something because the shot isn't going to be exactly the same as your pins so making a inch drop card is the key.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

3d Shooting Sessions
Sighting in my bow sessions:

I put two pieces of black tape on my target that are over 12 inches long and one of them is vertical and one of them is horizontal, I prefer doing the vertical one first and I shoot for a while and I move my windage until I am missing on both sides of the black tape but mostly hitting dead on. By the way I do this at 50 or 60 yds first, absolutely do not do it at 20 yds because it is to easy to hit good at that distance.

With the horizontal piece do the same thing if you are a center ibo center bulleseye guy but if you are a asa guy shooting low back bulleseyes then sight in so you are hitting dead on or missing a half inch high and never dropping out.


3d shooting sessions in back yard:

I like to take a couple of pieces of brown card board and draw with a black sharpie a 10 ring that is asa size and then with a pencil I draw a 12 ring, now I go back to 40 yards and I practice shooting the first arrow so that it is hitting the connector line area getting either a 12 or a 10. Now on the second arrow depending on where the second arrow hits I make sure that I am not going to hit it and get knocked out but still make a quality attempt at getting a 12 and staying in the 10 ring. There are so many different things that can happen depending on where the first arrow hits and this shooting session helps you practice making good decisions. Now the third arrow if the first two arrows are blocking the low back bulleseye should be shot at the upper 12 and this way you can learn how to move your sight and stay in the 10 ring and not shoot out the top.

One of my favorites:

Set your bow on a certain yardage such as 37 yds and then go to 35 36 38 39 40 and shoot and learn for real what the reality of missing your yardage really is. Now here is the important part, do it at the asa scoring rings because aiming at the connector and doing this drill really shows you some beautiful stuff and it will make you so confident in your ability to score well even when judging up to 2 yards off the real yardage.

Day before big shoot hitting your peak drill:

Take your stool out and only one arrow and without warming up pick a yardage such as 42 yards and take that first asa shot, you aren't going to get any decent warm up at a asa event anyway so learn how to be firing on all eight cylinders from the first shot. Go get it and come back and shoot at a different distance every time and play the asa game of aiming dead on at distances you feel comfortable doing so and past that comfort zone aim at connector line. This drill is a great way to peak the day leading up to a big shoot instead of just doing another high volume day.

Leave bow in yard all day freaking long sessions:

Many days in the summer because I am a teacher and don't work in the summer I take out my stool and bow and set out my stuff at 50 yards, then I shoot one arrow and go get it. then 30 minutes later I shoot another arrow and sometimes I shoot 20 arrows and then come back a hour later and shoot one more arrow. Some times I shoot for a hour and get in my volume for the day and I still leave it out there and fire one arrow when the time comes. This drill really helps teach you how to shoot perfect with absolutely no warm up and to me to be a good asa shooter this is the key because even when you get to shoot 15 arrows at the practice bags and then do your 20 minute walk to the course and then sit around for 30 minutes and then he says "shoot um up" and your first shot is at a 40 yard black buck.

70yd daily shooting to warm up:

To me this is about one of the most important things that I do to relax and warm up because at 70 yards it is ok to miss a bulleseye because you are at 70 freaking yards, there is nothing but positive things that can happen at this distance because when you nail a bulleseye you are excited and if you shoot a tight group you take a picture because it is really really freaking awesome. Shooting at 30 or 20 yds is a waste of time and does nothing but tick you off because if you arent nailing every freaking shot something must be wrong and no matter how many you hit the ones that you miss are stressful. now after 30 minutes of shooting back at 70 yds I do like to move up and shoot a couple arrows at every distance and just smoke the bulleseye just to really nail down that i am on fire today.

Training at 3d is more than just standing at the same distance and shooting at a little orange dot and doing some or all of the shooting sessions that I just described can really turn you into a competitive asa or local shooter. I have made it an entire week and not gotten one stinking 8 on my little home made asa 10 ring with low back 12's and that is shooting all day long for 5 days using the drills above, sure I know the distance I am at and sure it is not under pressure because I am in the back yard but I have also in the last two years shot 4 days at asa events where I didn't get a single 8 for the day and this year in open a when I did it I aimed at every stinking 12 all day long regardless of the distance.

Good luck and see ya, Padgett


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

stoz said:


> Ill try to post a pic tonite. Works great. Working on a 4 pin too. Shrewd is awesome.


Having problems up loading on at. Any one who wants pic pm me.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

stoz said:


> I started with same pins as you last year but found quick that I was always holding off. Imo you need a pin set at you average distance for your class hc would probably be 30-31.


The average yardage in HC has been increasing since I started shooting it at Erie in 2012. There are plenty of shots between 30 and 33 yards for sure, but I just can't put the average yardage in that class at anything over 30 yet. Would I like to have a pin at 31 or 32 yards? You bet I would but not at the expense of my 28 yard pin. I'm still using it too often. I shot a Insanity with one 30 yard pin at worlds two years ago and finished quite well, but my yardage judging has improved quite a lot since then. Without that kind of speed my pin gaps will stay right where they're at.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Last year I shot 27 31 34 for pins and did quite well.


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## Sean243 (Dec 15, 2011)

I would love to have three pins and those exact pin settings, just can't get them close enough though. Holding the bottom edge of my 28 yard pin right on the spot I want to hit gets the job done 30.5 yards. I call it good for an 11 at 30 or 31 if I do my part.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Sean243 said:


> I would love to have three pins and those exact pin settings, just can't get them close enough though. Holding the bottom edge of my 28 yard pin right on the spot I want to hit gets the job done 30.5 yards. I call it good for an 11 at 30 or 31 if I do my part.


Thats why I came up with the scope bcuz it was driving me crazy not having a pin set for my average shot or having too many pins in the way.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

Finally worked..


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

The key is to black out the tubing so you don't see the pins you don't want. And you have to use blue, the only color that needs a light source.


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

I came up with the idea and the shop I shoot for makes them. Shrewd was the only scope I could get. It to work with.


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## Bowfinger2.0 (Aug 15, 2011)

ttt


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## stoz (Aug 23, 2002)

This set up rocks. Actually came up with 4 pin set up. 26, 30 ,34, 38. Took 2nd in ahc this year with it. 3rd overall in SOY.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Nice thread.


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