# Barebow weights



## Demmer

Bee stinger disc weights. 

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## iArch

How far can you stack those weights out to still be legal for barebow?


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## MickeyBisco

iArch said:


> How far can you stack those weights out to still be legal for barebow?


Depends on the riser you're using. It must fit through the 12.2 cm ring, unbraced.









Sandwiching weights within the lower riser cutouts works too.

The 12 and 20 oz BB weights from 3rivers are about 1.5".


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## grantmac

All weights must be one piece. You cannot stack weights and expect to remain legal by anything other than ignorance on the judge's part.

The good news is that the 12oz x-spot weights aren't expensive and a pair of them balances most risers really nicely.

Grant


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## Demmer

I can't find bee stingers disc weights anymore. They had them up to 17oz for 10 bucks. 

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## Warbow

grantmac said:


> All weights must be one piece. You cannot stack weights and expect to remain legal by anything other than ignorance on the judge's part.
> 
> The good news is that the 12oz x-spot weights aren't expensive and a pair of them balances most risers really nicely.
> 
> Grant


Which org is that and which rule?

Speaking of stack weights, these 3oz tungsten stack weights are too pricey for me, but I covet them 

http://www.wiegandwatches.net/3oz-tungsten-carbide-stabilizer-weight-5-16-hole.html


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## ryan b.

Grant is correct. It's always been like this.


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## JINKSTER

Warbow said:


> Which org is that and which rule?
> 
> Speaking of stack weights, these 3oz tungsten stack weights are too pricey for me, but I covet them
> 
> http://www.wiegandwatches.net/3oz-tungsten-carbide-stabilizer-weight-5-16-hole.html


Competitive Archery....(like many other sports involving heated competition)....are places where grown men of great skill and ability are often times defeated by...

"Fine Print & Terminology" LOL!


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## grantmac

Personally I think it's both silly and applied inconsistently. However the rulings I have seen all indicate that you cannot be sure a judge will allow anything but a single piece which attaches using a permanently installed screw. Ie: you can't just pass a bolt through something and expect it to pass with every judge.
This seems at odds with the factory Stolid weights and also the homebrew ones which bolt to both bushings but that is beyond my pay grade.

One of the things I do as a member of the Barebow community is produce one-off weights which are specific to the riser in terms of fitting through the ring and to the shooter for required weight. The vast majority of bows seem to like 20-35oz depending on the strength of the archer, the draw weight and the grip shape.

The X-spot weights are the first thing I recommend when someone approaches me for a custom weight.

Grant


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## Warbow

grantmac said:


> Personally I think it's both silly and applied inconsistently. However the rulings I have seen all indicate that you cannot be sure a judge will allow anything but a single piece which attaches using a permanently installed screw. Ie: you can't just pass a bolt through something and expect it to pass with every judge.


This sounds like an issue USAA needs to pass up to the technical committee. 



> INTERPRETATIONS FITA CONSTITUTION AND RULES
> Book 4, Chapter 9, Article 9.3.6.2.2
> 
> _Archery Australia Inc. has requested an interpretation of whether or not the added weight, as shown on the picture below is legal._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Constitution and Rules Committee finds the question presented to be within terms of reference of the Technical Committee.
> The Constitution and Rules Committee has determined that the following interpretation of the Technical Committee is not contrary to the existing rules or Congress decisions.
> 
> Response from the Technical Committee:
> The Technical Committee is unanimous in concluding that the system of weight attachment shown in the attached photo is considered legal. However, due to the nature of how weights are attached to bows in the Bare Bow Division, each newly developed system should be reviewed on a case by case basis.
> 
> Reason: The system shown borders on legal vs. illegal due to the attachment system. The weight is not attached directly to the riser as required in article 9.3.6.2.2, but rather through two “Eyebolts” attached to the bows existing stabilizer inserts. However, *due to the method of attachment and short length of the connecting bolts, the design is considered a weight rather than a stabilizer and does not violate the intent of the rule.*
> 
> FITA Technical Committee, 6 October 2009
> Approved by the FITA C&R Committee, 12 October 2009
> 12 October 2009 INTERPRETATIONS OF RULES


[emphasis added]

documents.worldarchery.org/Rules/Interpretations/English/2009-2011/Bk4_Art9.3.6.2.2_Barebow_Weight.pdf

WA Book 4 Rules:


> 22.3.6.2. Weight(s) may be added to the lower part of the riser. All weights, regardless of shape, shall mount directly to the riser without rods, extensions, angular mounting connections or shock-absorbing devices.


Based on the technical committee ruling, I'd think that stack weights attached with a bolt through the stack are perfectly legal under WA rules so long as they are affixed directly to the riser and/or riser bushing. The *approved* weight seems to violate the angular mounting part of the rule (was that added to the rules after this 2009 ruling to defeat it?), but what the technical committed never objected to is the *stack of weights* or the fact that a bolt goes through them, nor is their anything in the rules that says that the weight must be one piece nor that the bolt must be permanently affixed - though I suppose a judge could try to twist the "shall mount directly to the riser" to mean no stacked weights, but I doubt the technical committee would agree with that convolution since they go also by the *intent* of the rules, which clearly are not to prevent stacked weights of the same dimensions but rather, *extension rods* and dampeners.


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## grantmac

Personally I'd rather have anything which fits through the ring be legal regardless of construction or material. 

However I've heard of enough failures of far less questionable setups than the one pictured for it to be worth my time to ensure my bow is beyond protest. Especially since the weights I make push the absolute limit of what will fit through the ring.

Grant


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## Mr. Roboto

Stacked - is a crazy rule? How do they interpret the internal weights and the external cover weight on the Gillo riser?

I have used waterjets to cut out custom shaped weights that fit precisely inside the odd shaped holes in risers, and then used the waterjet to cut side plates that follow the contour of the riser. When assembled, they looks like that was the original design. Unless one takes the covers off, no one will know that there are weights inside the riser. Is this stacked?


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## J. Wesbrock

Demmer said:


> I can't find bee stingers disc weights anymore. They had them up to 17oz for 10 bucks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


I notice they're not even listed on their web site anymore. I guess they're just one more thing to hope to find second hand on eBay.


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## Warbow

J. Wesbrock said:


> I notice they're not even listed on their web site anymore. I guess they're just one more thing to hope to find second hand on eBay.


Certainly not 17oz for 10 bucks... 

http://www.beestinger.com/product-category-page.php?pc=Weights


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## Demmer

Must have been a big run, and just finally sold them all. 

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## limbwalker

I've used these on my bow, and many of my student's bows. Most risers will pass through the 12.2cm ring with one of these on it. One in the stab. bushing and one in the lower limb pocket bushing (if your riser has one) will make just about any riser shoot with good manners.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/x-spot-stainless-steel-8-oz-counter-weight.html


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## 2413gary

I just don't think I would be showing them what's inside&#55357;&#56833;


Mr. Roboto said:


> Stacked - is a crazy rule? How do they interpret the internal weights and the external cover weight on the Gillo riser?
> 
> I have used waterjets to cut out custom shaped weights that fit precisely inside the odd shaped holes in risers, and then used the waterjet to cut side plates that follow the contour of the riser. When assembled, they looks like that was the original design. Unless one takes the covers off, no one will know that there are weights inside the riser. Is this stacked?


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## rsarns

The Gillo has been ruled legal several times already...


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## AdAstraAirow

A problem with the current WA system is that the official(s) at any event can rule against a particular barebow weight design excluding that bow / weight set-up from competition, and the individual competitor's only recourse is to then wait until its National Govering Body officially submits the design to the WA Technical Committee before getting a rule interpretation for future events. Obviously a risky thing to attempt, if your exact set-up has not been previously ruled upon by the technical committee.

Mark


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## Warbow

AdAstraAirow said:


> A problem with the current WA system is that the official(s) at any event can rule against a particular barebow weight design excluding that bow / weight set-up from competition, and the individual competitor's only recourse is to then wait until its National Govering Body officially submits the design to the WA Technical Committee before getting a rule interpretation for future events. Obviously a risky thing to attempt, if your exact set-up has not been previously ruled upon by the technical committee.
> 
> Mark


It does seem a bit crazy, and I can see why grantmac chooses to be conservative to avoid that issue. I had wondered why they couldn't just allow archers provisional permission to shoot in the competition pending a ruling by the governing body, like a provisional ballot, but it doesn't take too much thinking to realize that would hold up the tournament ranking, and potentially even the podium, for months or longer, which seems untenable. So, I don't really see an alternative, but rather that the NGBs should be proactive in submitting questions for rulings and WA should turn around rulings in a thoughtful, but quick, manner.


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## Azzurri

grantmac said:


> All weights must be one piece. You cannot stack weights and expect to remain legal by anything other than ignorance on the judge's part.
> 
> The good news is that the 12oz x-spot weights aren't expensive and a pair of them balances most risers really nicely.
> 
> Grant


I bought one of those for my Fiberbow and am happy with it. I had previously used lighter weight and felt like the setup was fidgety for barebow.


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## rsarns

Demmer said:


> Must have been a big run, and just finally sold them all.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


John, I had heard they were stopping production and put the old stock on sale. I jumped online and bought a bunch.... ( Guess I fit the Hoarder description!)


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## Demmer

I got a good enough too. Lol

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## nakedape

grantmac said:


> The good news is that the 12oz x-spot weights aren't expensive and a pair of them balances most risers really nicely.



thx for that tip!

a guy at the range let me test out two 12 oz x-spot weights today. 
attached them to the middle and bottom stab bushing.

My recurve setup only has a single 30" stab with 3 oz weight added. 

What a difference! It really steadys the bowhand.

a bit heavy, but I think I will get use to it.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

I assume that mine are legal.


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## AdAstraAirow

These will pass for WA, but because they stick out so far to the side, NFAA has the potential
rule them as stabilizers. 

Mark


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## bobnikon

AdAstraAirow said:


> These will pass for WA, but because they stick out so far to the side, NFAA has the potential
> rule them as stabilizers.
> 
> Mark


Mark,

They don't stick out as far as the plunger, and barely beyond the extremeties of the riser itself... But I get what you are saying. 

Wouldn't it be nice to just have a clear concise description of what is and isn't legal. 
But even when we get that there will be people who push the limits and judges who interpret differently. 

So, I guess the best bet is practise with what you have and then accept whatever classification/group you are lumped with the day of the competition?

Cheers


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## rsarns

UtahIdahoHunter said:


> I assume that mine are legal.
> View attachment 3375969
> 
> View attachment 3375977


On my Zenit BB I had weights like that sticking out, and shot a ton of Nationals with it. Only one person ever questioned them, but never protested. Best bet would be to take pictures and ask the Rules Interpretation Committee to make a ruling on them, NMARCHER on here (Bob Borges) is one of the 3 members of the RIC. I shot Redding, Louisville, Vegas, Darrington etc with mine....


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## UtahIdahoHunter

rsarns said:


> On my Zenit BB I had weights like that sticking out, and shot a ton of Nationals with it. Only one person ever questioned them, but never protested. Best bet would be to take pictures and ask the Rules Interpretation Committee to make a ruling on them, NMARCHER on here (Bob Borges) is one of the 3 members of the RIC. I shot Redding, Louisville, Vegas, Darrington etc with mine....


Whew! You guys had me worried about Vegas. Thanks for the info.


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## StarDog

Now you all got me thinking since I am fixing to set up a barebow for string walking just for funsies.


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## granite14

UtahIdahoHunter said:


> I assume that mine are legal.
> View attachment 3375969
> 
> View attachment 3375977


those are nice. how much do they weigh and did you have them custom made? cost?

I'm not completely happy with the Gillo big weight. Sometimes I'd like to shoot less weight but more than the aluminum cover.


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## UtahIdahoHunter

granite14 said:


> those are nice. how much do they weigh and did you have them custom made? cost?
> 
> I'm not completely happy with the Gillo big weight. Sometimes I'd like to shoot less weight but more than the aluminum cover.


I made them myself on a lathe. Made from Stainless bar stock. I'm not sure of the weight, but I like a heavy riser. PM Sent


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## Bigjono

Those weights do look good. I'd be interested in more info too.


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## grantmac

You can run anything you like for Vegas, NFAA barebow is very permissive.

Grant


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## Warbow

grantmac said:


> You can run anything you like for Vegas, NFAA barebow is very permissive.
> 
> Grant


Understatement of the year


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## montblanc

I currently run the 17 oz. Stabilizer weight disk on my riser. The weight is nice, but I have yet to see if it fits through the 12.2 cm ring the WA requires. However, I started off with the X-Spot 8 oz, which I highly recommend as a starting barebow weight. Either that or the 12 oz.


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## nakedape

just curious, I don't really see a weight on this bow (perhaps that bronze circle the size of a nickel)
or is there a chance she's not using weight?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIuWUQn4mMA


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## nakedape

actually I also see a bigger bronze circle on the top of the riser....


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## montblanc

Are we allowed to have stacks of disk weights? I see no official ruling about it, but I read a few times that you're not allowed to do that even if it fits in the size requirement.


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## Ms.Speedmaster

We've used the ones that Limbwalker posted, but usually recommend the stubby X-Spots for external weights:
https://x10archery.vendecommerce.com/stabilizers-weights/products/x-spotstainlesssteelcounter-weight
Or we just recommend buying a Gillo. 

I have chatted with a couple of contacts about making rods and weights, including discs. Mostly for our own personal use. If it works out, we might go into production.

Never heard of that stacked weights rule. But that doesn't mean squat. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be allowed as long as it's within the 12cm.


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## montblanc

That stacked weights rule I brought up was referring to some posts on the first page.

Also, does anyone have experience with squeezing a tiny rubber o-ring between the weight and riser to keep it from loosening? Or does that also count as a vibration dampening device?


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## toj

This is the weight I used this year, made by a club member from stainless.



I asked for the knurled outer edge just because


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## StarDog

grantmac said:


> You can run anything you like for Vegas, NFAA barebow is very permissive.
> 
> Grant


So I read the rules for NFAA barebow and in the recurve department (other than FSLR) the rules say the index finger has to touch the nocking point.

So for string walking -- which category does one shoot? Barebow against the barebow compound shooters? I'm curious. Recurve? 

Ditto USA archery rues.


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## toj

I've had a few judges speak to me about home made side weights and the potential to use them as a sighting aid in particular for clout archery.

Now i don't shoot clout so i felt it didn't affect me personally but it was raised several times this year and the only thing they would concede was that my side weights were made and placed by the manufacturer.

Is this specifically a uk thing?


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## Azzurri

NFAA stringwalkers generally do "BB" but as it is constituted it does include compounds. I gap so I do NFAA Trad, although I currently use a WA BB style bow weight instead of a stab, which lets me do both if I want. You are also legal as FSLR (and probably other similar divisions) but then you're with sighted shooters. I understand some people do Vegas BB in recurve flights which is basically FSLR.

USA Archery stringwalkers, BB under WA rules. You could probably also do Oly class, or Traditional Recurve with certain kinds of bows.


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## limbwalker

I despise the fact that a person will have to give up points if they wish to shoot the same bow in events run by multiple organizations. 

Fact is, if you shoot a WA-legal "Barebow" in an NFAA event, you are giving up points, period, and that stinks. 

If you shoot a NFAA "traditional"-legal bow in the NFAA "barebow division," again, you are giving up points. 

The only way to truly be as competitive as you possibly can, is to have a different setup for each discipline, and who wants to deal with that much hassle? I don't.


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## JINKSTER

limbwalker said:


> I despise the fact that a person will have to give up points if they wish to shoot the same bow in events run by multiple organizations.
> 
> Fact is, if you shoot a WA-legal "Barebow" in an NFAA event, you are giving up points, period, and that stinks.
> 
> If you shoot a NFAA "traditional"-legal bow in the NFAA "barebow division," again, you are giving up points.
> 
> The only way to truly be as competitive as you possibly can, is to have a different setup for each discipline, and who wants to deal with that much hassle? I don't.


Here, Here!!!...Extremely Well Stated!!! :thumbs_up 

I just sold my 790gm BB weight...after a weeks worth of shooting with it set my bow arm elbow on fire...twice now.

I'm sticking with NFAA <12" stabilizer...might give full length stabs a shot someday but?...this sort of takes me out of the games played in this forum.


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## StarDog

limbwalker said:


> I despise the fact that a person will have to give up points if they wish to shoot the same bow in events run by multiple organizations.
> 
> Fact is, if you shoot a WA-legal "Barebow" in an NFAA event, you are giving up points, period, and that stinks.
> 
> If you shoot a NFAA "traditional"-legal bow in the NFAA "barebow division," again, you are giving up points.
> 
> The only way to truly be as competitive as you possibly can, is to have a different setup for each discipline, and who wants to deal with that much hassle? I don't.


I had a spare riser and limbs and string and plunger and some stuff, so I put together a barebow and found out I could still string walk without losing my mind. So I was curious since I might want to do some local shoots.

That said, and I am telling tales out of school. a woman of my acquaintance who is a very good Oly shooter, signed up for recurve in the CBH (Cal State Bowhuntes) 900 which uses NFAA rules. I mean, a 775 against regular recurve shooters? A friend of mine thinks she did this on purpose and I am thinking yep, it was on purpose because the year before she signed up for FITA style so she does know better, she ain't a NoOB. My friend beat her last year but this year this lady would have creamed both of us. 

I think going against compound shooters with a recurve is stacking the odds against you and going against recurve with string walking is sort stacking the odds in your favor, but not enough people string walk to make it a separate category. 

Although it could be argued that string walking is "gap shooting", you just create the gap before you aim.......

That said, I feel like I should just do the CBH state indoor with a barebow in the recurve division since clearly no body is paying attention and doing equipment checks.


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## Ms.Speedmaster

montblanc said:


> That stacked weights rule I brought up was referring to some posts on the first page.


Yes, sorry. I completely glossed over that book 4 wording. It seems that could be down to a judge's interpretation and probably should be clarified.


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## ryan b.

Dip the stack weights in plastic or coat with epoxy/paint and say they are a 1 piece weight. Or experiment with stack weights and when you find what works then go find a one piece weight that mirrors the stack. Silly rule imo.


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## grantmac

Not as pretty as what I make for others but I've yet to meet a riser it couldn't balance:








I believe it's about 34oz and just barely clears the ring.

Grant


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## Ms.Speedmaster

ryan b. said:


> Dip the stack weights in plastic or coat with epoxy/paint and say they are a 1 piece weight. Or experiment with stack weights and when you find what works then go find a one piece weight that mirrors the stack. Silly rule imo.


Well, I've been chatting with some folks. One a national USAA judge, the other a USAA staffer, and the thought is that stacked weights are designed to... stack, and should count as one unit. So therefore is perfectly fine. 

Hooray.


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## Mr. Roboto

grantmac said:


> Not as pretty as what I make for others but I've yet to meet a riser it couldn't balance:
> View attachment 3408658
> 
> 
> I believe it's about 34oz and just barely clears the ring.
> 
> Grant


That is a beast


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## grantmac

Mr. Roboto said:


> That is a beast


Yes Pete it is a bit of a beast.

I didn't really calculate what it would come out to, I just put that 2.75" round bar in the bandsaw and cut off a likely chunk. The "stem" is actually turned separately and both are given a 1° taper which is then press fit using sleeving compound in a 12 ton press. Then I machine them as a unit to remove any trace of the joint. It's a more complex process than simply making it from one piece but 2.75" 303 isn't cheap and I enjoy the work.

It was quite heavy at first but I shoot with a very low wrist position which seems to prefer more mass. The overall weight is still far less than my compound.

Grant


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## Zarrow

I see you are finally putting that Ghibli to good use 


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## George C

Hello:
I have a Zenit riser, where did you get those larger weights?


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