# Bow arm fatigue



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Crunch -

Kinda depends on which muscle/muscles are fatiguing. Improper alignment (lack of bone support can cause that), or it can simple be the physical weight of the bow. The latter isn't uncommon with people coming from a trad background. If that's the case, simple lateral dumb bell deltoid raises might help. 

Without seeing you shoot, hard to say what's going on.

Viper1 out.


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

Viper, You're right, I am coming from a Trad background; however I think that there is more to it than simple mass weight, probably alignment.
I read somewhere that a lot of shoulder issue can even come from hand placement on the bow.

I was hoping that maybe there is a common alignment error that I could look for. Not that easy I guess.

Thanks


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Crunch -

Every part of the body is interrelated during the shot sequence. Sure, it's possible that a poor hand position can lead to poor shoulder alignment, but it might not be the first thing I'd look at, unless the shoulder alignment anomaly pointed me towards the bow hand. 

Most shoulder injuries are do to shooters repeatedly drawing and holding (and releasing) with their arm and shoulder muscles instead of their back muscles. 

Only real way of figuring out what's going on is to have a pair of educated eyes take a look.

Viper1 out.


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## Sanford (Jan 26, 2009)

Crunch, slow waaay down between shots. It's not like Trad, where one has more control over draw/shot timing and a light bow to hold between rounds. Aiming and drawing aids, along with more mass weight, make things much different and add more strain, even for strong muscles. Let your bow down between shots. Rest it on the stab to take off the weight. Rest your muscles and let them recharge for the next round.


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## Matt Z (Jul 22, 2003)

I struggle with bow shoulder pain/fatigue constantly while trying to find that magic alignment. What's odd, is that I could pull another 5lb easily in bow weight. But it seems that the success of my shot cycle is dependent on my bow shoulder alignment. It's even gotten to the point of me closing me eyes and just lifting the bow to a natural position that I'm comfortable with and most of the time that has been the key to good shots for me.


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

Sanford: Maybe I am shooting too fast. I'll try and slow down. 
Matt: i'll also try it with my eyes closed for feel.

Thanks guys.


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## caspian (Jan 13, 2009)

Crunch - I had the same thing going from a recurve to a compound. the bows are a lot heavier, you don't really get to rest the stab on the ground etc. took me quite a while to develop the bow hand shoulder muscles to the point where I had the same stamina as I had for recurve. it's just a matter of time and it will develop, be patient.


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

I noticed today when I use a lower wrist grip, not really heeling the bow, but feeling the pressure along the length of my lifeline, the shot feels some how more solid but it does bug my shoulder more.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Any change in joint position/articulation...can and does effect how the muscles are involved and used.

Changing from a 2 to 3lbs. Trad bow to a fully equiped FITA rig can be enough to fatigue the muscles of the bow arm shoulder.

With proper conditioning or rest in between your shots...you should be able to shoot without fatigue.

I would also highly recommend a rotator cuff strengthening program to help with preventing some common related shoulder injuries that can be caused by having a weak rotator cuff.

Ray :shade:


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## Flehrad (Oct 27, 2009)

Crunch said:


> I noticed today when I use a lower wrist grip, not really heeling the bow, but feeling the pressure along the length of my lifeline, the shot feels some how more solid but it does bug my shoulder more.


Immediately I can tell you that your grip position may be wrong (dependant upon the thickness of your bow grip, what bow are you shooting?) as the correct alignment with good hand position will mean that you have no contact of the hand with the grip past the lifeline. The pressure on the grip when in a relaxed hand position (as your hand should have zero tension in it) should be in the middle of the thumb muscle above the radial head. 

If you draw a line on your hand with a thin pen, from the middle of the first finger (middle as in of the thickness, not down the length) at the base of the finger, with all fingers closed together and the thumb pointing at 90 deg, so the line cuts across the thumb muscle, then repeat the line from thumb, it should intersect on a point on the thumb muscle. This point should be the center position of pressure on the grip, underneath the line of the arrow.

It's a bit tricky at first for many people who aren't used to shooting with this type of grip as they will want to clench the grip with their hand (which is what you would be used to doing from a traditional background), but this will help reduce muscle tension and use, which all adds up to you tiring out.


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

I'm shooting a Proaccent. I think, if I understand you properly, the pressure may be too low on my hand. Is the palm towards you, fingers pointing up, with the thumb pointing out to the side?
The grip does not cross the lifeline.

Thanks,

Bob


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## Flehrad (Oct 27, 2009)

In your previous post you said you felt the pressure along the line of the lifeline, so thats what I based my response on, if it isn't touching the lifeline, then it might be fine.

I've attached a rough sketch I just did in paint to illustrate what I mean. The palm is facing you with the thumb sticking out to the side, and when placed on the grip, the pressure point should sit firmly in the mid point of the grip position.

The line underneath the arrow should cut through the intersect and to the head of the radius as that is where you want the force at full draw to pass through to allow the best force transfer through the bow arm so you don't have to use more muscle to keep the bow arm straightened, and allows you to shoot higher poundages with less effort.


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

Flehrad,
That makes sense to me... I think the area of pressure I'm using is close. I'm a little low, probably due to extending the wrist, ie. bending it back towards me when gripping the bow, moving the area of pressure down towards the radial head.

I'll try it and let you know how I make out.

Thank-you for your suggestions.

Bob


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

*Here is what I've found*

I'm not professing this as correct or right ...butthis is what I've found.

Bow shoulder fatigue is a clear function of alignment, physical bow weight and draw poundage.

I've found to find out what a low bowarm shoulder feels like is to... place you scapula of the bow shoulder up against a wall. Raise the bow arm into position and place the outer portion of the bow hand wrist bone against the same wall. Raise up your bow shouder and then using the latt muscles of the bow shoulder side of your torso, lower the bow shoulder down. Keep these latt muscles tightened as this will help to keep the shoulder down and improve the steadiness of the shot.

Hope this helps.

My BEST

Tom


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

Interesting Tom... I have found in the past when playing with lifting a jug of water in an attempt to sort this alignment out that tightening my lat does keep my shoulder down. I never tried it with a bow so don't know if it works for me.

Thanks alot. You guys are going to eventually get me straightened out.

Bob


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## ArtV (Jan 29, 2008)

I didn't read most of the above, but are you working out at all or just shooting. You can develop over use issues so it's wise to train the muscle associated with an exercise on both sides...example - the shoulder had three heads all three should be worked...front raises, lateral raise and reverse raises will do this. Chest/back muscles. Quads/hams...etc. I think you would find all elite athletes or, those who aspire to be, train both with weights and do cardiovascular (endurance) training as well.


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

I do work out, not often enough, but with only so much time ,well somethings gotta give. I actually try and put extra emphasis on the post delt/external rotators.

Thanks


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## Crunch (Nov 28, 2002)

Okay, so this is what I tried...I slowed down, placing tip of stab on floor between shots. This allowed me to carefully place my hand on the grip and make sure my shoulder was down between shots. I think that my hand position was pretty good already, but I'm monitoring it. My shoulder was moving up. It was pretty good for the first shot of the end, but then moved up out of alignment with subsequent shots. Placing the stab tip down allowed me to realign the shoulder for each shot. 
It's working great. I felt less fatigue after 1 1/2hrs of straight shooting than I would have after a few ends in the past.

Thanks to everyone. You all made a big difference.

Bob


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