# Shibuya Ultima rest problems



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Let me start by saying I've always considered Shibuya to be a top brand in target archery. Their stuff is usually fantastic and their sights have no equal.

However, I've now seen more than my share of problems with the Shibuya Ultima rests and I'm no longer recommending them to my students. I experienced problems with them 2 years ago when I tried them on my own bows. Specifically, the wire arm flipping backwards when contact was made with an arrow vane. Recently I've had two more students experience broken wire arms or sticky arm mounts. Also, when replacing the adhesive, it's very difficult to keep the arm mount from being affected by the adhesive due to the "pass through" design.

Unfortunately, it looks like my favorite ARE rests are being discontinued. Not sure why, as most of the top archers used ARE rests for many, many years.

I've seen Shibuya Ultima rests on many, many bows at major tournaments, and I know some archers have had great luck with them, but I have lost my faith in them. Too many issues now for a very simple device that - if it fails - can completely ruin your tournament.

John


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## Cephas (Sep 7, 2010)

Hoyt Super Rest all the way. Can't beat $2.50 and at that price it's not painful replacing them when needed for my two recurvers or keeping several extra. We always keep a couple extra in the bag and have saved a few archers days by having them available.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yea, I always have several of those on hand.


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## Archer-E (May 15, 2013)

I replaced the _fancier_ magnetic rest that came with my riser with a Super Rest after hearing so many people rave about it. Best _downgrade_ ever. Simple, cheap, and effective.


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## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

I use the W&W Sebastian Flute Ultimate rest. I have been using it for over a year and it is still in fantastic condition. In my opinion it is one of the best rests you can buy! I recommend it to all the beginners at my range. It has a magnetic arm too. Only problem I have found with it Is that after a year the arm is a little bent, but easily bent back with some pliers!


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

Haven't had any issues at all with mine over the last 1.5 years.


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## rookcaca (Oct 10, 2002)

I have been using the same Shibuya Ultima rest for 2 yrs, no issues here.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

As I figured. Yes, surely there are many who have not experienced any problems with this rest. But I felt compelled to say something since it's honestly the only rest I've experienced ANY issues with in the past 10 years, and that includes probably 20 different models on all my student's and my own bows. 

Wire arms shouldn't break so easily, or come out of position so easily. Arm supports shouldn't have trouble at the hinge (last rest I pulled out of the brand new package was unuseable until I took a pair of pliers to it and created space for the rest support to move). Stick-on rests should have more surface area for the adhesive. There should never be an opportunity for an arrow to get wedged in between a wire arm and the plunger tip (as there is on this rest). Those are just the issues that I've had.

Again, I'm a huge supporter of Shibuya. I just think this rest is due for a redesign, that's all. I loved mine at first too, until they began to fail on me and my students.

John


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## Falkryus (May 17, 2013)

limbwalker I'm a beginner and I'm having problems with it too. Tomorrow I'll post a video of what mine is doing.


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## DruFire (Jan 10, 2013)

Joys of mass production..

Had one on my previous riser, shot for a year never any problems. As well as my wife had one, and never any issues.

One on my new riser I am constantly readjusting, and it keeps getting stuck after a shot. Really quiet frustrating.

Looking at the w&w bearing rest to be my next trial. *edit* or not.. lot of bad reviews.. the search continues.


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

The problem where the wire flips backwards is cause either their set screw easily comes out or its not screwed in well enough. In a way it seems like we had to break in the shibuya arrow rests before the set screw would actually stay. Meaning we just had to keep retightening it until it stuck. AFter that, we havent had any problems at all with 10+ risers having shibuya rests. However, ARE and the Hoyt Super rests have been just as good to us, so whatever floats your boat (although we have had more ARE wires break than shibuya ones so far 3:1 ratio). Shibuyas come in different colors so thats always a plus


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

Never had a Shibuya wire break on me, but I have had the arm move often enough for me to lose confidence in them. Happened to me first at a field shoot when I came to a target and noticed the wire arm sticking out at 90 degrees. Assumed I must have caught it on a bush or something, so tried to shove it back and carry on. Since then I've had it happen again, and more often had the arm drop a mm or so on several different Shibuya rests. Really annoying to set the bow up, tune for nocking point and then next week notice the arrow sitting low against the button and have to reset the whole thing. Its happened enough that I've lost faith and got rid of them. All except one, which I left on my main bow as I had a shoot coming up that weekend and no time to replace it. Its held, but if I go to some serious shoot or want a qualifying score, it wont be on there 

Not sure what to use instead really. The ARE rests have been good for me in the past. The Spigarelli rest (the stick on, not the fancy magnetic thing) is solid and good and cheap. I'd like to try the Beiter rest, but am not convinced its as good as using a flipper type rest.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> The problem where the wire flips backwards is cause either their set screw easily comes out or its not screwed in well enough.


Yup, this is one of the primary issues with the Shibuya rest. It's the issue several of my students have had to deal with so far, and something that isn't even possible with an ARE rest. 

Unfortunately, yes, the ARE rests did not come with replacement wire arms. That may have been their undoing? Not sure. One of mine wears a replacement wire arm from an old Flipper II rest that I bent to fit. Works just fine.

So, at least for now, I'm recommending this rest, as I've seen it in person, it functions just like the ARE did, and it has a more substantial wire arm. It comes in a non-adjustable, and an adjustable version.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/spigarelli-spiga-rest-2-arrow-rest.html

Unfortunately, the image of the adjustable version is upside down.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sigarelli-spiga-evolution-2-rest.html

I've seen these rests in person, and know that at least one Olympic gold medalist uses them. They are just a little more robust than most others of this design.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

I've seen a few arms break, probably about 50% of the rests at the club have gone at some time.
I did say last time one broke I'd swap it out for a different one but that was 18 months ago and it's still going.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

I've had no issues with the one I'm currently using. I have ample ARE rests should my experience change. The design is so good with the Shibuya rest I hope their engineers address some of the concerns posed on the board.


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

Hmm. I just got one (to replace a super rest) and I love it. I'm hoping to not experience any of the problems reported. I did notice that there is a little click that seems to happen when the screw is tightened down well enough, so maybe some of these issues stem from under-tightening? From the factory, that little screw takes considerable amount of effort to loosen.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That click you hear is probably your allen wrench stripping in the screw. That's another problem I've encountered.


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## blaze (Dec 24, 2005)

Anyone tried the new ARE? Rest is very well built and looks tougher than the older model. I bought one to install on my Matrix but unfortunately the arm is too short or does not have enough opening angle for me to achieve a good centershot. I ended sticking a Shibuya instead.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

Here are some better pictures of rests as well as many we will never see stateside. Have been impressed with the quality of my Spigarelli Carbon-30 sight so far and will be trying their rest next.

www.merlinarchery.co.uk/accessories-for-the-bow/rests-buttons/recurve-rests.html

alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0014066.9.3856181007319140367

alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0014066.9.8080714962319140367


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> That click you hear is probably your allen wrench stripping in the screw. That's another problem I've encountered.


This is the source of the problem with the Shibuya rest. The rest wire needs to be screwed down tightly, but allen wrenches of that size (1.5mm IIRC) strip relatively easily. With even a slightly stripped wrench you cannot tighten the screw sufficiently. Using the long side of an allen wrench rather than the short side also compounds the problem.

You can reduce the problem by purchasing some fresh wrenches or if you have a grinder you can grind off the stripped tip of your allen wrench back to a good hexagonal profile— just keep it cool so you don't lose the temper. You can also help reduce the problem by using the short end of the allen wrench rather than the long. 

What is needed is either a harder, stiffer 1.5mm wrench or a redesign of the rest to use a set screw that takes a larger diameter wrench (at the cost of increasing the mass of the rest arm).


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Yes, that would be a good fix, and I agree that tiny set screw is a major cause of the issues. 

But the other major cause is the brittle rest arm. It does not bend, it breaks. I'm sure it's that brittle to offer additional stiffness in the vertical plane, but at the sake of making it easier to break? Not good. 

To me, the best, most robust solution is to simply have a beefier rest arm like the Spigarelli. Easy enough.


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## edgerat (Dec 14, 2011)

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/mip/mip9007.htm quite possibly the finest "hex drivers" I have ever owned. I have a full set of them that have lasted me nearly 18 years.


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## w8lon (Jun 2, 2012)

So far no issues with my Shibuya other than the surprise of it's tiny size. Will it fail with heavy indoor arrows is another question though. Titanium wire for the spring arm may be a better choice as a magnetic surface is not necessary with the design. As for the ARE rests the one that I posted through Alternative looks to be current production although a search for Asahi proved futile.


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> ...But the other major cause is the brittle rest arm. It does not bend, it breaks. ...


Okay. This points to another component of the problem. In order for a set screw to hold the wire securely either the tip of the screw needs to deform somewhat, or the wire needs to deform somewhat, or both. The combination of a hard wire and a hard screw would cause the problems reported. Perhaps what is needed then is a set screw with a softer tip; Though this won't stop the wire from breaking it should be easier to screw down and less likely to strip the allen wrench. 

I will measure the set screw size when I get home, order some brass tip replacements (if I don't already have some), and report back when I have some results.


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## adamstephens (Mar 5, 2012)

I broke Shibuya Ultima 3 rests in a year of use before ditching them - the wire appeared to fatigue towards failure. I stringwalk barebow, so I guess the forces on the rest are higher than with an Olympic recurve. I changed to Spigarelli ZT rest. No issues at all in the last year.

Adam


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## calbowdude (Feb 13, 2005)

I've avoided the thin-wire rests such as the Shibuya because of the inconvenience of the wire breaking mid-tournament. I use those hideously expensive AAE Free Flyte Elite rests, of which I finally broke the beefy arm after being moved around several bows and 100,000+ shots over the years. It had been bent and straightened more than once as well, thanks to the wire arm catching my finger sling as I was setting the bow down. It uses SAE allen wrenches and they are nice and beefy as well. 

I will need to get one of those ZT rests, the arms look to be similarly beefy.


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

FWIW, the stock screw for the Ultima rest is M3-0.5 X 3. I just replaced mine with a M3-0.5 X 3 stainless set screw with a brass tip (which I had around for use in the DX plunger). Though it feels like the brass tipped screw tightens better than the stock screw, becoming tight more gradually with increasing wrench torque, it will take some field use for a definitive call on whether it is better than the all-steel screw. In the mean time if you don't have a local hardware store that stocks them they are part#90418A101 (stainless/brass) or #94085A090 (alloy steel/brass) at McMaster Carr. 

For those who have broken their Ultima rest wires, where do they break?

One thing you could do to reduce the chance of the rest wire breaking is to use a piece of the outdoor double sided foam tape to stick the rest on rather than the thin double sided tape that ships with the rest. The greater flex will give the wire some give.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

I have the shibuya on my main outdoor bow. I went away from the ARE when a guy broke his at US Field nationals and I took the wire off of my backup only to find from LAS that ARE didn't sell replacement wires meaning the thirty dollar rest was worthless. Its one of the reasons why I set up many bows (the sadly discontinued) with Cavalier's Champion II rest-its a stick on and It was easy to get replacement wires. Same with the big elite that I use on indoor bows and is pretty much the top choice for finger walkers since the long wire works far better than the short wires like the Shibuya or the plastic rests like the hoyt.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Agreed on the ARE wire arms Jim. It's a tragedy that they didn't offer replacement arms. I have two ARE bases without arms right now.



> For those who have broken their Ultima rest wires, where do they break?


At the 90 degree bend.


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## gumibears (Jun 1, 2008)

Wow do you guys have ridiculously heavy arrows or something? The shibuya wire is definitely harder/thicker than the ARE wire (I had an ARE rest(3 years before the wire broke at the 90 degree angle) before i got a shibuya (2 years and counting so far))
If its breaking at the 90 degree bend, there seems to be a significant amount of force on that wire. Maybe nocking points are off/tiller where the arrow is kind of shooting downward into the wire? Or really heavy arrows with high arrow count.
@limbwalker did you ever break it at the 90 degree bend? I feel like your students would more likely have had bad luck with the shibuya rest because their nocking pts/tiller are off/tune is off due to stiffer/heavier arrows. A stiffer/heavier arrow that doesnt have enough speed to leave the bow(because they are working up to higher poundage) will likely head downward due to gravity more easily and maybe shoot downward into the rest.


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## Matt_Potter (Apr 13, 2010)

gumibears said:


> Wow do you guys have ridiculously heavy arrows or something? The shibuya wire is definitely harder/thicker than the ARE wire (I had an ARE rest(3 years before the wire broke at the 90 degree angle) before i got a shibuya (2 years and counting so far))
> If its breaking at the 90 degree bend, there seems to be a significant amount of force on that wire. Maybe nocking points are off/tiller where the arrow is kind of shooting downward into the wire? Or really heavy arrows with high arrow count.
> @limbwalker did you ever break it at the 90 degree bend? I feel like your students would more likely have had bad luck with the shibuya rest because their nocking pts/tiller are off/tune is off due to stiffer/heavier arrows. A stiffer/heavier arrow that doesnt have enough speed to leave the bow(because they are working up to higher poundage) will likely head downward due to gravity more easily and maybe shoot downward into the rest.


Try string-walking if you want to hammer rests 


Matt


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

I won't lie, there are times where the arm gets thrown back and I'll have to readjust it. It's annoying, but if the arm ever breaks off, I'll just stick with the Hoyt Super Rest. I think the problems I've had with it in the past was because my arrows were too stiff and it would wear out the hand super fast, preventing from holding the arrows. I should be fine now that I have arrows more appropriate for my poundage.


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## Bogmadur (Sep 21, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> Let me start by saying I've always considered Shibuya to be a top brand in target archery. Their stuff is usually fantastic and their sights have no equal.
> 
> However, I've now seen more than my share of problems with the Shibuya Ultima rests and I'm no longer recommending them to my students. I experienced problems with them 2 years ago when I tried them on my own bows. Specifically, the wire arm flipping backwards when contact was made with an arrow vane. Recently I've had two more students experience broken wire arms or sticky arm mounts. Also, when replacing the adhesive, it's very difficult to keep the arm mount from being affected by the adhesive due to the "pass through" design.
> 
> ...


Hi 
I had the same problems. "Specifically, the wire arm flipping backwards when contact was made with an arrow vane." That is the vane got caught in the area where the screw is and drow the platform forward the wire arm hits the riser and gets bent as the platform pushes forwards. Still not decided wheather I should abandon the rest or try to tune; lower the nocking point or maybe the arrows are too stiff. But I do not like to tune but then again this could be telling me something I should listen to but dont just avoid the real problem by changing the gear. Or is it just a waste of time trying to adjust to something that simply does not fit, then again it is not likeley that shibuya would make something as simple as an arrow rest that does not work. Going in crcles with this. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Bogmadur (Sep 21, 2013)

Bogmadur said:


> Hi
> I had the same problems. "Specifically, the wire arm flipping backwards when contact was made with an arrow vane." That is the vane got caught in the area where the screw is and drow the platform forward the wire arm hits the riser and gets bent as the platform pushes forwards. Still not decided wheather I should abandon the rest or try to tune; lower the nocking point or maybe the arrows are too stiff. But I do not like to tune but then again this could be telling me something I should listen to but dont just avoid the real problem by changing the gear. Or is it just a waste of time trying to adjust to something that simply does not fit, then again it is not likeley that shibuya would make something as simple as an arrow rest that does not work. Going in crcles with this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


 I will try to tune on ground of this theory: The nocking point is too high. The arrows are pushing onto the the wire. Because of this friction the wire moves to the riser and the mount therefore sticks out when the vane passes it and it gets caught in it. If I lower the nocking point the arrow might lift of the wire and the mount stays in when the arrow passes and the arrow vane will not get stuck in it. Or maybe I am moving my hand up when i release instead of straight backwards causing the arrow to be thrust onto the wire causing the friction ... etc. 


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

Shibuya ultima rests 

issues I have had a situation where my wire has moved but that was down to user error. The bow slipped out of my hand and I managed to catch my thumb on the wire arm.

other issues left handed archers sometimes find the wire arm sticks in the flat position against the riser after the shot. This is a very small machining error you need verniers to spot it the ridge that is next to where the wire arm passes into and out of the back plate is not quite straight enough in the left hand setting causing it to stick. so if you have that problem return to shop for a replacement. my guess is that the CNC machine in the Japanese factory may have been disturbed by an earth quake and not spotted this fault only came on later batches of the rest early up takers did not have this problem.

Apart from that I have had no problems with the shibuya ultima rest and have shot many thousands of ACE 370 spine arrows with 120 gran points off them and many thousands of navigators as well.


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## GBUSA (Jun 6, 2013)

I also had a few problems early on with my Shibuya Ultima. This was when I first bought arrows from a local archery shop to get myself shooting.
The problem was the over spined Beeman ics hunter juniors. The vanes were contacting the little piece that moves and holds the wire, forcing it further forward than normal and thus moving the wire outward as noticed once it is back to rest position.

I've not had any problems with these rests when shooting correctly spined arrows.

ymmv,
GB


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