# Practice... Talkin' bout' Practice



## Shogun1 (Jan 31, 2015)

307 said:


> So as an aspiring target and competitive archer, coming from a background of many different competitive sports, I'm starting to try to develop an understanding of how to practice, and how to train myself to be the best competitive archer that I can be. I am assuming that simply shooting more and more isn't the most efficient way to maximize my potential. Although volume and repetition are surely important, I'm imagining that there are drills, practice techniques, etc. that can make the whole process more efficient. Perhaps there is even a book or course that can help me learn these things...
> 
> So, I'm wondering what some of you competitive archer folks may have in terms of advice or guidance on the topic of Practice.


I'm sure you've heard this before.

1. Practice with a specific purpose.
2. Drills. There are plenty of them. What do you want to get from them? Don't expect something else.
3. Backwards plan from the tournament.
4. Take notes. Keep track of your equipment settings and learn what settings give you the most stable sight picture and which help you execute without disturbing the sight picture (or maybe with the least disturbance of the sight picture).
4.a. Give up on the notion that the bow has to be perfectly in the manufacturer's "specs." Make the bow fit you.
4.b. YOUR form is what the bow has to fit. If you change your form and the bow was already fitting you, then you have to change the bow.
4.c. There are two draw lengths involved. 
4.c.1. That which your form requires. Defined by the distance from your release hook and the bow hand's grip on the bow. Affected by the shoulders, the bow arm, the bow grip, your anchor references, the distance from the release jaw to your rear elbow, how aligned your form is...
4.c.2. That subtended by the bow part of the system. Defined largely by the cam, draw modules etc etc etc. affected by the cables, strings (which in turn affect ATA and brace height). Although changes in the length of the D-loop don't actually affect the bow actual draw length, those changes do affect the bow's part of the system that has to fit between the release jaw and the bow hand.
5. Read. Think. Read some more. Think some more. Try things based on your studies -- but see number 4 above. What works for this guy or that guy may not work precisely that way for you. Why? You may not really understand what that guy is saying, or what that guy is saying might just be wrong.
6. Based on your readings, start deciding who you can really trust for insights and perspectives.
7. Reading list -- more by authors than specific topic -- and not limited to just the following:

On the net and in written work:
Larry Wise, multiple works on form and mastering release aids
Bernie Pellerite, Robinhood Videos LLC. Idiot Proof Archery, how to shoot like a pro, even if you have a real job
Terry Wunderle, Think and shoot like a champion
John Dudley, multiple articles available on the web and "extracted" from other published works
Tom Dorigatti, Proactive Archery
Kisik Lee, BEST ...
Lanny Bassham, With Winning in Mind

On the forum:
Alan Lui (Nuts and Bolts)
Shawn Padgett
Robert (RCRArchery)


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Shogun1, well put.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Shogun1, That's a great list. I've never seen it expressed more concisely, or more accurately.

Allen


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## CamoQuest (Mar 3, 2012)

Training for Archery, by Jake Kaminski, is another one


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

I tend to concentrate on Shogun's #1 mostly but not so much 5, 6, 7. Reading about how to shoot is ok and I can pick up things here and there, but it's not nearly as good at improving my shot as actually shooting. So strategies that involve putting actual arrows through the bow are the ones I tend to gravitate towards. 

Basically, unless I'm concentrating on something specific, I shoot in practice as closely as possible to how I'm going to shoot in competition. It's not really much more complicated than that. For example, if a shot is going wrong in practice I do my very best to not "get rid" of the shaft - I let down and start the shot over, paying attention to time. That's a "primacy of training" thing; if I do it (or don't do it) in practice, I generally won't or will do it in a competitive setting. The general idea is to build automation and trust in my shot. That can only happen through practice. That way, when I step on the line for real, I'm not having to make any adjustments - it's the same shot I do out in the woods with my portable Bowtree. 

At this point, most of my problems with my shot are generally strength issues, so that consists of just shooting more to get stronger. However, I do take advantage of when I start breaking down - I note after how many arrows and what happens. I think it's good training to observe how I break down when I start to break down, and try to discover ways to correct the problem. That doesn't mean shooting until I'm just dead, but learning something from the bad shots. "shoot the shot, learn from the shot" is the motto I learned from a coach when I was in college many years ago and that has served me well, I think.

As for 4.a-c, couldn't agree more about those fitment issues. These are also the most quickly found through practice. The more you shoot, the stronger you get and the quicker a fitment problem will show up. A crick in the neck or uncontrollable activation of small muscles in the bow arm, etc. Then you can start looking at causes, like if the d-loop is too long, bow too short, etc. Arrows through the bow will reveal this the fastest of any other method, in my experience.

Lee.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

One of the best contributors here on AT was BlueX, John Salyer. He posted that if you practice your shot, you will not improve as quickly as if you practice your "shot sequence". I've found this to be quite true.

It also helps if I practice the individual parts of my shot on the blank bale, then transfer that to steps in my shot sequence.

As lees posted, string time is essential, but you have to know what to practice. It's as easy to practice a poor form & execution as it is to practice good form and execution. Practice doesn't necessarily make perfect, it makes permanent. Only perfect practice makes perfect.

Sorry for all the cliches,

Allen


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To me you have to read a lot of good information and at least get a good variety of it in your head so that once your mind is ready to accept it you have already studied it. Now to get to the point where you can accept it you have got to get around a very good shooter in your area and compete with him either on the line indoor or in his 3d group. Watching him do his thing on the course is the realization that you have got to be around so that you can start seeing the things from your studies that you are missing out on and then and only then will you progress to new levels. 

I have written up my 3d game plan that I learned from a strong semi pro shooter a few years ago and we have used it to progress to semi pro ourselves and be competitive on the asa stuff from time to time. My buddy jason actually won out of semi this year and will be a pro next year using it. 

It is funny, Jason and I watched our other buddy Blake Allen who at the time was way better than us and was that semi pro shooter I mentioned before. We watched him do things over and over and over that we just couldn't believe that he could do every stinking day every stinking shot. It took a few years but this year I watched Jason actually pass Blake"s ability and now when I watch Jason do what he does over and over I now have something to chase again because he is figuring out how to play the game really good. Again, to me you have to see it happen right in front of you for you to believe it is possible. Then you make the decision to become that shooter.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

By the way, you have got to "Be Willing To Fail". To be a really good 3d unknown or known shooter you must aim directly at every 12 ring regardless of the distance, I know it is insane but Levi Morgan is hitting right about 50% of them for a reason. He is aiming at all of them. That is what I am seeing Jason do, he is walking up to 47 or 51 or 49 yard targets over and over and guessing good enough numbers that he is hitting the 12's or slightly missing on the top side of the 12 ring all the freaking time. I am only comfortable pulling this off from 20 to 42 yards for the most part but the really good shooters find a way to do it all the way to 50 yards. 

Jason is still in the learning phase and still progressing so at times he does have a disaster day because when you are trying to learn the game at that level and you are aiming at every stinking one of them any and all screw ups on yardage or aiming etc result in hitting poorly and killing your score. Again, you have got to be willing to have a specific game plan and follow it regardless of the score at the end of the day. This is why having Blake in our group and watching him do it allowed us to have faith that we were going down a good path and not wasting our time.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

As far as practice you just have to cover your bases, for indoor once you have put in the time to be shooting good by yourself you have then got to get on the shooting line with other people and get over the nerves. For 3d there are so many little drills that I do that are so much fun to pass the time and not just stand there and shoot at dots. I draw asa scoring rings on some cardboard and I shoot them fresh to practice looking at nothing and still being able to hit what I can't see, then I develop holes and they never end up being perfect so you have to aim off of the hole to hit dead on and then I shoot two arrows at each asa 12 ring and the first arrow is a non marker shot and then the second arrow is a I have a marker shot and aim off that arrow.

Even little things, like how to sight in a 3d bow is now a drill. It took me years to learn that you do not sight in a 3d bow aiming at a dot because there isn't a dot on the 3d target so you end up aiming slightly differently. I use black tape horizontally and vertically, the horizontal black tape is for making sight tapes and vertical is for doing my windage. Actually the windage is the one thing that I find I can do and it is dead on with the vertical tape where the horizontal one is only for sight tapes. Then when you set the needle on the sight you do that aiming at asa scoring rings.

This is only one little area and there are many little areas of stuff to learn that allow you to progress up with your training. I have a lot of them written up if you want to read them.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

Padgett said:


> As far as practice you just have to cover your bases, for indoor once you have put in the time to be shooting good by yourself you have then got to get on the shooting line with other people and get over the nerves.


Couldn't agree more with this. This is probably the only condition you can't truly replicate in practice; there's no substitute for actually going to the line with a bunch of other shooters and executing your shot "in anger" as they say. You'll be amazed at what happens no matter how good you may have actually gotten shooting by yourself. Even if you're old and don't give a hoot like myself, you'll still be nervous and making perplexing Dubble You Tee Eff shots, at least for the first few ends until you calm down and get back into concentrating on your shot.

It can be enough to just go down to the shop and just practice with all the kids and folks trying bows and guys cussing at their bad shots and everyone else, even in a non-competitive situation. Even that can upend you if you haven't done that for a while. 

So there's just no way around that part - if you want to shoot good scores in competition, you have to actually go do it for a while .

lee.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Yep, My friend Sam Woltius is a pro indoor and 3d known guy and I was lucky to be around him when he was still a amateur and then became a pro. He freaking goes to a ton of local indoor leagues and stuff and will even call me and see if I want to come to a bow shop between us and do our own little two man league. Back then he would shoot a 60x most of the time but sometimes he would throw up a 58 or 59. I actually got to beat him a couple times when he screwed up and left me a little room.

But

Now, he shoots a freaking 60x everywhere he goes every stinking time. I just saw a facebook thing of a little 5-spot competition last week and he showed up and shot his 60x like usual. He even shoots a 60 at all the national stuff and is in the running on the second day when you shoot a vegas round. 

I know that some of the leagues he goes to are up to a hour and a half from him home but he gets there.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

At my local shop one of the gals who works there is a ninja like that. Her pattern, tho, is to not shoot for months and months and then suddenly show up and beat everybody. At league last week, she went "hmm... ok I'll shoot let me go get my bow". Her pro comp elite had dust all over it and had peep rotation etc; that was how long it had been since she'd shot the thing. She did a 284 or something like that. If she shoots again her scores go exponentially up every time. 

One year she went to indoor nationals the only shooting she did all year and got 2nd in her class. Tied a state record and only Cassidy Cox beat her. 

I can shoot every day all year and she'll beat me the only time she shoots the whole year..... Don't cha just hate folks like that 

lee.


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## 307 (Oct 1, 2013)

I think I'm getting a feel for it thanks to your replies. I really appreciate the time you've taken to answer the question. Part of my challenge is where I live there just isn't much of a target archery "scene". It would be a couple of hours drive to get to anywhere where a target rig doesn't look alien to most of the folks shooting. My own town has one indoor public range, which is all of 14 yards long... Ugh... Luckily, a friend with a work shop is becoming obsessed with this game and we can shoot to 20 yards in there. 

I've competed at several different sports that are mentally comparable to archery. Most recently, I played competitive golf at a reasonably good level. Seems to be a similar mental process. I decided to become more serious about this game at the beginning of this year after having some success with my hunting bow at an event. There's been a lot to learn.

I'm shooting in the mid 290's on the Vegas face and about 45-50x on the 5 spot right now. Sorting out the equipment has been a slow process but I'm getting there. I've committed to the hinge (HBC) after starting with a tension release (Carter Attraction) and I think that's starting to pay dividends. Shooting a Elite energy 35 with Axcel Accutouch Carbon Pro and Bee Stinger Premier stabs. 4x lens is all I've got right now. Not exactly a target rig but it's still better than I am. I'm wondering if there would be much of an improvement going to a more specific target set up... 

As far as competition, I'm looking to travel a bit more this year. With 2 active kids in sports, it's a bit difficult to make it to many shoots but I'm focused on making that happen this year. Last year, I won nearly everything I shot at which isn't a good thing, just an indication of how little competition is around my area.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice. I'll look into some of the information presented and continue to shoot as much as I can.


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

If you ask me, that's already a fantastic setup, so in terms of being economical I'd switch only if there was a compelling reason (bow fit for example). I changed bows this summer for fitment reasons and ironically my scores have dropped. I was expecting that to happen tho. My PB with my PSE was a 298 13x Vegas with my Supra Max setup for BHFS earlier this summer, but I had to really pay for it to do it - with pulled stuff in the neck and right shoulder. Took the fun out of it finally so it's back in the closet now. 

Im shooting my 1979 target bow technology 46" wheel bow full time now and it's practically like starting over. My goal at league is back to just keeping them all in the gold for at least one round, approx. where I was about this time last year with the PSE. But shooting is fun again. And I can repeat my shot without tearing up my neck and upper body now and there's already significant improvement at the target. So the practice regime I've learned over the years does pay dividends - if Im shooting better than I was with the same equipment that's a good diagnostic to go by .

lee.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, your setup is good.

I don't have a issue with you shooting a scoring round from time to time but to me you are way better off to do training based approach rather than a scoring round approach. The sooner that you accept mentally that anyone can hit a x at 20 yards and that you are not a stud because you can hit a x you are one big step closer to being a good indoor shooter. Being good has nothing to do with the ability to hit a x. It has everything to do with 100% execution that is exactly the same over and over and over for hundreds of shots in a row. 

So

Right now when you get to the shooting range today you need to do a perfect shot session tonight. You step up and start trying to execute a perfect feeling shot and it might take 10 or 20 shots and then it will happen, THE PERFECT SHOT. Now the moment that it happens you need to step back and visualize what about that shot felt so awesome and then you step back up to the shooting line and try and repeat that exact same shot. For me when I started doing this it would take another 5 to 10 shots before I could reproduce that awesome perfect feeling shot. Within a week or so of training I could produce 40 or 50 of them in a row and in a month or so I could produce a few hundred of them in a row. Again, this has nothing to do with the point of impact or scoring. It has everything to do with the feel of the shot and the fact that you are banging the x is just icing on the cake. 

Really good shooters already know that they are going to hit the x every time and all they have to do is execute a smooth shot and it is going to happen, they are not forcing the shot to hit the x. It is 20 freaking yards and they are really freaking good so hitting it is easy. The hard part is learning how to just do the same thing over and over and over. 

Of course when you go to a tournament, you are going to start part two of your lessons. Why? Because now you have to learn how to produce that nice smooth shot you have been working on under pressure with lots of nervous energy. I have lots of thoughts on this subject and don't mind talking about it if you want.


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## "TheBlindArcher" (Jan 27, 2015)

Only competitions I win are ones where I'm the only one in my class so take this for what it's worth... 

Coming fro a phys ed background, I have a slightly different definition of practice and training than many. For me, training is working on specific parts of the game- Be it draw or anchoring or firing sequence or other conditioning or whatever. Practice to me is putting it all togeether, analysing each step and the results and identifying what still needs work. Pracice sessions for e involve good groups, not so focused on whether those groups are in the yellow. Competition and scoring is the end result, has the work paid off or do I need to make a change in my training. 

I train frequently, I practice occasionally, I score/compete rarely.


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## Chadl23 (Jan 3, 2017)

Allen Iverson reference, Nice. 
I just maintain a steady diet.
Make sure I'm constantly shooting, Running, Etc
Nothing more since Shogun1's post.


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## 307 (Oct 1, 2013)

298 11x tonight but I was having a war with the damn hinge. It broke so well a couple of days ago but it was hanging up and giving me hell tonight. Ugh. Sort of happy with the score but the process was crap.


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## Shogun1 (Jan 31, 2015)

307 said:


> 298 11x tonight but I was having a war with the damn hinge. It broke so well a couple of days ago but it was hanging up and giving me hell tonight. Ugh. Sort of happy with the score but the process was crap.


Think about that.

Maybe it is time for a session with a goal of setting hinge speed -- which a completely different goal than scoring well.

Maybe part of the issue with hinge hang up isn't hinge speed. Maybe there is an underlying form/bowfit issue. 

If the hinge is "hanging up," are you able to execute without disturbing the sight picture? Why? Why not? How do you know? What do your notes say? If you're changing something, what change did you make? Did it help? Can you "undo" if it didn't?

See Padgett for an approach to setting hinge speed. As I recall (and unless he has changed) he comes in from the cold side. Personally, I come in from the hot side. So what? Ultimately we both get to the same point -- just different approaches to the same answer.

I would have to double check my notes -- my hinge (Carter Total Control) is set to 5.25 turns off the limit and the click is set 5.75 turns off the limit. (As I recall, the range allows for about 27 turns from one extreme to the other). On the other hand, my 2 finger HT is set 9 turns off the limit. (And I don't remember how many turns to run the range on the HT -- and I have the original sear -- so however "deep" that click sear is). Neither of them hang-up. Nor do either of them launch one during the draw.

I do spend a fair amount of practice time -- while the 1 hole target is appealing/gratifying -- what I am practicing is the here and now shot process and the discipline to wait rather than rushing the shot and the discipline to let one down rather than choosing to shoot a bad one or even a mediocre one. And guess what -- exercise that shot process and discipline --- and you get a one-hole target.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

When the hinge hangs up on me, it's usually due to excess tension somewhere in my form. Bow shoulder rising, release hand not relaxed as it should be, trying too hard to aim, etc. Finding your best relaxation of each part of your form is a big part of what the shot sequence is all about. 

Allen


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