# Can you check my form and DL?



## leblanc822 (Feb 18, 2004)

*draw legnth*

looks good, but with only a partial pic hard to tell. look up some form posts or nutsansbolts posts for the needed pics and some good info.


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## Oggies Outdoors (Dec 28, 2005)

A picture with the bow in it would help, but it looks a little long to me.


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## shott8283 (Sep 20, 2007)

not sure what you guys mean about the picture... its big but on my screen it can scroll over.. i can repost it again abit smaller if it would help


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## archertom (Oct 19, 2006)

I wouldn't add an inch to your draw length, maybe a 1/2 inch. your anchor point looks a tad high to me. Might try moving your peep sight up just a little to bring that anchor point down just a bit.


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## shott8283 (Sep 20, 2007)

if i move my peep higher all im gonna see through it is my cables .. which is something i still cant figure out... i gotta keep it where its at of move it down towards the serving/nock point


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## archertom (Oct 19, 2006)

If you move your peep sight higher, it will bring your anchor point down just a bit. You will have to lower your release hand just a tad to be able to see through the peep. It looks like your anchor is just a tad to high in the picture, you want your bow string to go down under the tip of your nose, you don't want it rolling off the side of your face and nose. Try lowering your anchor point so the string touches the tip of your nose at full draw.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

archertom said:


> If you move your peep sight higher, it will bring your anchor point down just a bit. You will have to lower your release hand just a tad to be able to see through the peep. It looks like your anchor is just a tad to high in the picture, you want your bow string to go down under the tip of your nose, you don't want it rolling off the side of your face and nose. Try lowering your anchor point so the string touches the tip of your nose at full draw.


i believe he is talking something like this. look at how my string is compared to my nose.


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## archertom (Oct 19, 2006)

Nice form sneak. Thats what it should look like when you pull your bow back. The reason you have to anchor high is due to your peep sight being too low. It should feel better and shoot better if you raise that peep a little in the string.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

shott8283 said:


> if i move my peep higher all im gonna see through it is my cables .. which is something i still cant figure out... i gotta keep it where its at of move it down towards the serving/nock point


Hello shott8283:

Here is your picture, resized to fit the screen.










I would suggest you straight out the bow arm,
and then take a new picture.


2nd, I suggest you get some thin cord,
like parachute cord (about 3 mm)
and then make yourself a bow sling. 

It's just a loop of cord that you slip you hand
through the loop.

This way, you can relax your fingers.



















No changes to the bow.

You don't really need that "bend" in the elbow of the bow arm.

Here are some examples for you to consider.


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

archertom said:


> Nice form sneak. Thats what it should look like when you pull your bow back. The reason you have to anchor high is due to your peep sight being too low. It should feel better and shoot better if you raise that peep a little in the string.


thanks tom. lots of practice and i still am not happy with my form and shot execution. its a never ending battle but you gotta do what you gotta do.


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## shott8283 (Sep 20, 2007)

ok..adjustments have been made... sorry for the pic being farther away.. wifes in bed so i had to get the pic taken off the back of the computer chair.... anyway.. moved the peep up 1/2" and i can already see the difference it made ... anchored so the string is on the tip of my nose..not the side of my face... and straightend my arm... already had a sling on but just didnt wear it for the first pic..

problem now is that since the peep is 1/2" higher and looks to have adjusted my form alot better... my cables are now (seen through my peep) are maybe 1/8" away from my site pins... and i cant figure out why they are so close... papertunes fine (not bareshaft,,fletched)..and i scrape arrows at short distances.. (15yds, 20yds) so i can only assume my centershot and arrow/rest/site alignment is perfect... i just see cables... anyone else have this problem?

either way,,thanks for thelp... lemme know whatelse i need to change from that last pic!


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## shott8283 (Sep 20, 2007)

heres another one.. a little better then the one above


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

It looks much better. Of course, after raising the peep the sight will also have to be raised to get her sighted back in. 

But I don't know what the issue with seeing the cables is.....that is not something that normally happens with those bows. Perhaps after some tuning of the rest's position that will go away. A small movement of the rest to the left equals more movement of the sight to get everything lined back up, so it may be the answer. Other than that.....did you change the cable slide or is the stock Hoyt slide?


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## shott8283 (Sep 20, 2007)

stock Hoyt slide,,,, im gonna do some more fine tuning... frenchin it.. we'll see if my tune actually gets moved.

thanks guys!


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## Slippy Field (Nov 4, 2005)

shott8283 said:


> after lookin at the pic i think my DL can gain an inch...
> 
> lemme know!!!



Geez, what thats sitting on your chin? 

Draw Length looks good to me, so doesn't all that bread.

The arrow length is my biggest concern.


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## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Look at your pic here. And really look close inside the red circle......









See how the pad that isn't at the base of your thumb is against the bow's grip section? That can cause some left/right misses from hand induced torque. A buddy of mine starts missing the X and when I look he has his hand like that every time (and he can't seem to stop doing it, either!). You had a post about left torquing I believe. This is probably the cause of that. Try to get your knuckles at about 45 degrees to the floor, fingers curled and relaxed and get that "meat" off the grip. I believe you'll like what you see.:wink:


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

Slippy Field said:


> Geez, what thats sitting on your chin?
> 
> Draw Length looks good to me, so doesn't all that bread.
> 
> The arrow length is my biggest concern.


why is arrow length your biggest concern. the arrow length is great. this is the 21st centure you don't need to cut your arrows back inside your riser anymore. i leave my hunting arrows cut 1 to 2 inches past my riser just to get the broadhead away from my hands. why do some of you think you need to cut them back real short. it can be dangerous and it is not needed. why do you think the overdraw went away. not neccessary.
Shot, form is looking much better than before. i think you could loosen the wrist sling a bit and work on your grip. i would also relax your right hand a bit. don't grip the release strap when you are shooting for that can also cause torque. o yeah and don't shoot the fridge there are usually lots of goodies in there.:wink:


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## shott8283 (Sep 20, 2007)

yea ive been playing with my grip as much as possible,,,, trying different things..and i see what your saying...the toughest part about tha is trying to remember what kind of grip provides the right kind of results... my arrows were cut at 29" and according to measurement i have a 27.5" DL ... initially arrows were cut and i was measured thanks to the "experts" at gander

these arrows will have to do untill the season is over with... wife says i cant spend any more money

another thing i tried today.. was aquirin the target with left eye closed and then opening it up right before i take the shot... lol... damn that was interesting.. (L eye dominant, shoot R handed)

ill try and get another pic tonight after class,,, i untwisted the string ... gave myself another 1/2 draw


in the "biz" we call that the--flavor savor---


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## DRFrance (Feb 4, 2006)

*exercise: eyes closed to form a T at draw*

You are on the right track.

Your initial photo does show your draw length to be somewhat long. We are getting nit picky at this point. Whatever feels good to you and allows you to score and shoot the tightest groups is where you want your draw length to be. A recommend draw length is generally your best starting point.

Here is a nifty trick I have used to set up thousands of archers with what feels best to them personally, first try assuming they already know how to draw a bow to anchor points that are comfortable to them.

Draw your bow with your eyes closed, settle to your natural anchor points and then open your eyes. Having a full length mirror, someone honest next to you, or video of yourself helps at this point. Do you have equal weight on both feet with each leg straight, hips centered, back straight, and overall form to make a nice looking balanced "T" with your head straight up in the center line (if not your peep height also needs to be adjusted)? You have already done this correctly by having someone take your photo then closely looked at your own form. Several good examples have been posted.

If something does not look correct, then it probably is not. Try adjusting your draw length until your balance feels best when at full draw pointing your bow relatively level accross the room (guys who draw and point the bow down like they are in a tree stand often get different results). 

This is an excellent topic. Good news is that you might have been a little short at first, and that is much easier to shoot fairly well than being too long. Good luck and good hunting.


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## archertom (Oct 19, 2006)

That looks alot better, I bet it feels more natural too. When you say you see the cables, do you mean you can see the cables through your peep sight when looking at your pins? If so, check your cable guide arm to see if it's flexing too much at full draw, if thats not the case then put a shorter cable guide on it and see if that helps. What is the center shot measurement on your bow from the inside of the riser? Just curious. Check your cam spacing to make sure your cams are spaced right. It's possible the cams aren't spaced right, it's not a common thing, but it does happen. Good luck!!


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## Jamesh76 (May 9, 2007)

Being L eye dominant and shooting R handed, have you tried shooting with both eyes open, instead of opening the L eye right b4 u shoot? It is common for alot of people to shoot with both eyes open. Especially at hunting distances of 20-35 yards or so. Just a thought.


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## shott8283 (Sep 20, 2007)

i tried it a few times but its hard for me to aquire the target when leaving both eyes open the whole time.. and besides.. if were to do so.. it would shift my aim point the same way it doest when you do the eye test... it worked well when i got the sight picture with the L eye shut and then opened it up .. im gonna practice this a bunch and maybe retrain my slow-backwards brain ...


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## NEVADAPRO (Jul 5, 2007)

*Long?*



DRFrance said:


> You are on the right track.
> 
> Your initial photo does show your draw length to be somewhat long. We are getting nit picky at this point. Whatever feels good to you and allows you to score and shoot the tightest groups is where you want your draw length to be. A recommend draw length is generally your best starting point.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with DRFrance. You are leaning into the string and your weight is forward instead of your head being centered over your spine. If you straighten your arm as N&B suggested and stand more upright, your draw will be even shorter! I think about a 1/2" (again, hard to tell from a picture at that angle-it's hard to get but you really need an overhead and one from directly behind you) will do but it could be as much as an inch. I think you are seeing your cables due to the cable slide (and maybe the cable guard-you may need a bent cable guard), try a Saunders Hyper-glide. It works wonders on Bowtechs with similar problems and is extremely smooth! They are pricey and I wouldn't recommend spending the extra $$ unless it is to fix a problem like yours. I would find a way to raise your peep a little more! It will help make your anchor point more secure and repeatable. One last thing, I would shorten your wrist strap on your release (tighten the strap) until you have the first knuckle on the trigger! The tip of your first finger is about as sensitive as it gets and the tip will control the trigger instead of the larger back and shoulder muscles the should be controlling things. This will help your consistancy with a little practice! Hope this helps! By the way, nice looking bow!!:wink:

P.S. I do agree with DRFrance about closing your eyes, draw to your anchor point, settle in and open your eyes. Have someone there to help you adjust the peep up or down without you moving anything and this should be your true anchor point!


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## DRFrance (Feb 4, 2006)

*Nice to see others trying to help also*

Nice to see others trying to offer help also.

Try a few of the different approaches you see here and let us know what seems to help you. There is more than one way that will work.

It is not so easy to diagnose everything without being there in person.

Best of luck to you.


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## muzzy125acc (Oct 20, 2005)

You guys are alot of help thanks


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## DRFrance (Feb 4, 2006)

*oh darn - I may have looked at a different image*

Apparently I did not see your very first photo and coorelate it to your call sign. Sorry for the initial mix up or I would too have recommended you extend your draw length slightly.

Allow me to basicly describe the too long, the too short, and what should well work in the middle.

Too long ... not you, but I was looking at a photo showing a particular bow arm shoulder position where it appears to almost roll into a blocked posture, ie. the shoulder joint begins to rotate to extend the arm further and the shoulder muscle appears higher and the elbow to be directed more out than down. Personally I find it can be more difficult to shoot the best from a high shoulder position. Some shoot this way because they feel they can handle more draw weight. I don't presume this to be your problem, but if you were to extend beyond to experiment, this is the point where you would consider going back to return.

Too short ... you might tip your head forward to find an anchor point on the string and see through your peep while having your bow arm flexed substantially at the elbow. We see this often with kids outgrowing a compound bow that the parents bought for them the year before.

Something in between having a flexed elbow and blocked shoulder that feels best for you would allow you about an inch or so to play with in draw length and the style of your release is important (and gets us into a whole new discussion). It is something that you will know when you feel it. Looking at many photos of good shooters and shooting with good shooters in your area while observing them helps.

Anyway, that should do it.

It is good to see that most all of the suggestions posted appear to be right on target and very helpful to anyone with a similiar situation.


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## DHawk2 (Feb 18, 2007)

shott8283 said:


> i tried it a few times but its hard for me to aquire the target when leaving both eyes open the whole time.. and besides.. if were to do so.. it would shift my aim point the same way it doest when you do the eye test... it worked well when i got the sight picture with the L eye shut and then opened it up .. im gonna practice this a bunch and maybe retrain my slow-backwards brain ...


I also shoot RT handed and LF eye dominate. Although I don't hunt I do shoot some 3D and I have to aquire the target with my LF eye closed. Once I have the target in my sights I can open my LF eye but still have to concentrate on using the RT eye. Sometimes when shooting indoor dots, my LF eye will try to take over and I will actually be seeing a target like 2 lanes over! Again I will close the LF eye to regain the target then open it back up. 

Just curious, do you shoot a rifle LF handed? 
I do. Guns LF handed and a bow RT handed...I'm all messed up!


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