# PSE Raises the Bar!!!!!!!!!



## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

I didn't know that they still made PSE.


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

What bar has been raised? Looks like most every other company's specs. I am not being sarcastic here, I would seriously like to know, because I am on the lookout for a new bow.


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## mdnky (Jun 29, 2006)

[email protected] said:



> What bar has been raised? Looks like most every other company's specs.


I was about to ask the same question. It seems to me that PSE is barely above the bar from those specs.


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## jjambow (Jan 13, 2005)

*pse*

over priced, under developed.


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## dslchuck (Jun 15, 2005)

*Pse*

are they raising it so when i set on the stool my legs will go under it?.......:darkbeer:


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

*P.....s.....e*

PreSchool Equipment

They raised the bar for the little people.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> What bar has been raised? Looks like most every other company's specs. I am not being sarcastic here, I would seriously like to know, because I am on the lookout for a new bow.



Rob..

Just curious... Are you suggesting PSE has copied other manufactures with these bows???   Look a little closer... Better yet if you get a chance go shoot some and you will see validity in zakk54's comments.... 

These bows appear to be a knock off of the Mach X... Different configurations and handle options and a solid pocket with one adjustment bolt rather than independent ones.... 

Much of the same features... Asymetrically gooved light weight idler wheels and an apparent upgrade to the X cam which has infinite letoff adjustabilty and modular as well as post adjustments... Straight handle geometry... built in limb tip dampners on 9" quad limbs.. integrated cable rod dampner.... multiple sight mounting holes for optimal setting... etc..etc... 

Now who makes anything close to these bows when considering all specs....   :darkbeer: I don't think anybody.... Looking forward to shooting both models... If they are anything like the current Mach X they will be super tunable great shooting bows... 

As far as raising the bar I can't believe a guy shooting a newberry had the stones to contribute negatively....:zip:  

Cheers
Tim


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## J.C. (Aug 20, 2004)

Wow, 8 posts on this thread, 2 positive, one neutral, and 5 negative. I can understand if people don't like the bows, but why all the hostility? As far as the bows go, I like the looks of them. Will they be available in the box stores or are they pro shop only?


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

I've shot a Mach X but can't say it has anything going for it that's over and above any other high-end bow, and there are several disadvantages. Among them, you need a special bow press, and they have little rubber things that fall off all the time. I'm always finding them on the floor if they're not missing entirely off the display models at our store.

Can someone please let us know what's so good about these "X" bows that would make anyone choose them over something more conventional?


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Stash said:


> I've shot a Mach X but can't say it has anything going for it that's over and above any other high-end bow, and there are several disadvantages. Among them, you need a special bow press, and they have little rubber things that fall off all the time. I'm always finding them on the floor if they're not missing entirely off the display models at our store.
> 
> Can someone please let us know what's so good about these "X" bows that would make anyone choose them over something more conventional?



Stash..

You work at an archery store??? Where and what??? And what little rubber thingys are you refering to... I can only assume the limb dampners which are *bolted* to the limb... Unless that rat in yer pocket is secretly playing tricks on you I think i'll call your bluff... And what do you consider more conventional... A top heavy highly reflexed riser bow with longer limbs.. Well if thats the case the answer is real simple.... balance and a more compact hunting set-up.... Not to mention shorter limbs help in improving overall bow efficiency and contribute to a quieter shooting bow... And regarding the need of a special bow press... wrong.... adpaters can be simply added to a few current models i know of... 

Also... Regarding the Mach X and bows presses... How many of the other high end bows can be completely disassembled in the field for service if needed???  

Curios what the other disadvantages you speak of are.... I have been shooting one for quite some time and would be glad to answer any of your questions...

JC... Don't know where these bows will end up... All i know is they are getting alot of attention up here.. 

Cheers
Tim


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## carteranderson (Jul 31, 2006)

*I've owned both...*



tsilvers said:


> Rob..
> 
> Just curious... Are you suggesting PSE has copied other manufactures with these bows???   Look a little closer... Better yet if you get a chance go shoot some and you will see validity in zakk54's comments....
> 
> ...



and I'll take my Newberry anyday....Funny, I'm not sure that I've heard people complain about the speed, accuracy or volume of noise with Newberry. Although my PSE is fine with regards to speed/accuracy, the noise is bad. Granted, my Newberry is 2 years newer. Not bashing PSE here, just defending the Newberry line...I'm curious what kind of problems you had.

Carter


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

carteranderson said:


> and I'll take my Newberry anyday....Funny, I'm not sure that I've heard people complain about the speed, accuracy or volume of noise with Newberry. Although my PSE is fine with regards to speed/accuracy, the noise is bad. Granted, my Newberry is 2 years newer. Not bashing PSE here, just defending the Newberry line...I'm curious what kind of problems you had.
> 
> Carter



CA..

Wasn't trying to bash Newberry... There good bows... Probably was bit out of line...sorry about that...:embara: :embara: 

Probably reading to much into the general "Fanboy" mentality on here..
The general inference from negative posts or posters generally lends itself to a "my equipment is better than yours" mentality.... gets old I guess.. and i respond when i probably shouldn't.. No offense intended for anybody..

Cheers
Tim


Cheers
Tim


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## 3D bowman (Dec 21, 2003)

I have to say PSE has copied some in the past but the New designs like the Mach X and these new models look like all PSE technology. I plan on shooting them to see what they have to offer. I am a Hoyt fan but some of PSE's new tech has some new technology that does have some advantages.


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## carteranderson (Jul 31, 2006)

*No offense taken...*

 


I should mention that I have a friend with a Mach X that swears it is the best bow he has ever shot, so I guess whatever turns our collective cams :wav: 

Going to bed. Goodnight all!
Carter






tsilvers said:


> CA..
> 
> Wasn't trying to bash Newberry... There good bows... Probably was bit out of line...sorry about that...:embara: :embara:
> 
> ...


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

Pse comes out with hyper light limbs and then low and behold here comes Mathews with the Drenalin..Any one seen The Drenalin,s limb?.You guessed it,Same as Pse,s ..In that respect Pse raised the bar ..But 308 or what ever is not that big of a deal..310 for the Firestorm x..So what The x is only a upgrade from the first Firestorm..I shot Pse for sixteen years and IMO the older bows such as the Firefight Deer hunter with the 688 magna glass Graphite limbs were better then the new Pse,s that have come out..But then again I feel that The Lx that I have and always will have is better then the new Mathews that have come out..

This is not bashing or trying to make people mad..And if I have then I,m sorry


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Gee - all the negative comments, and I'll bet *not **ONE *of the posters has shot the bows!


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

PSE raises the bar ? 

All that i see are two slow and ugly bows :chortle: 



> Matatazela Gee - all the negative comments, and I'll bet not ONE of the posters has shot the bows!


Right , haven't shot them , but also didn't want one of them for free :vom:


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

442fps said:


> PSE raises the bar ?
> 
> All that i see are two slow and ugly bows :chortle:


You beat me to it......I think they are Ugly too.

I have owned PSE before and won't ever again......the AR line is a lil different, not too bad of bows, IMHO.


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

I would try and convince you to try one before bashing them, but I guess your mind is already made up.

Still, at 29" ATA, in a very light and compact design, that is quite some performance.


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

> Matatazela I would try and convince you to try one before bashing them


I wouldn't call it "bashing" if somebody says that they are ugly , beauty is in the eye of the one who looks at something , everybody has a different taste , so i would call it "personal right of expression" . And concerning the speeds , for their geometry they ARE slow .

*If somebody starts a thread with a Slogan " XXX raised the barr " , than i expect a bit more :thumbs_do .*

The reason why i personally wouldn't even try them out is nothing else than bad experiences with PSE , Browning and AR bows in the past , broken risers , broken limbs , broken cams . PSE is the only bow manufacturer that i know who send two pairs of replacement limbs for a broken one to a customer , why , cause they know the problem will arrive again . ukey: 

There are so many manufacturers on the market today , that its not necessary for me to loose again money with one of their bows .


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## hauksniffer (Dec 15, 2005)

*Really?*

Raising the bar? What bar? They hit their head going under the bar along time ago!


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Fair enough, 442. I like the fact that there are enough variations in the field of archery equipment to cater for all tastes. 

BTW - I thought beauty was in the eye of the BEERholder...


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

you know I've often wondered why people are so fast to degrade other products than those that they use? it's got to be a mental issue inside themselves...all I know is in my experiences when i had my store PSE was a good company to work with. they provided a good product at a good price...as far as the speeds go I don't get it..they advertise a speed and in most of them i have set up and ran through the chrony it's real close to what is advertised...
there's another thread about the Diamond black ice for instance that says 70#, 28.5, 398gr, 278fps...why so slow? if you look at a BC for a Liberty($700 bow) it will ibo at 288 on a 29" draw...again why so slow? meanwhile I've seen a PSE ($450 bow) that at 61#, 29", 375gr that will Chrony at 287...it also has a 8" BH...and people call PSE slow? give me a break!!!


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

trimantrekokc said:


> you know I've often wondered why people are so fast to degrade other products than those that they use? it's got to be a mental issue inside themselves...all I know is in my experiences when i had my store PSE was a good company to work with. they provided a good product at a good price...as far as the speeds go I don't get it..they advertise a speed and in most of them i have set up and ran through the chrony it's real close to what is advertised...there's another thread about the Diamond black ice for instance that says 70#, 28.5, 398gr, 278fps...why so slow? if you look at a BC for a Liberty($700 bow) it will ibo at 288 on a 29" draw...again why so slow? meanwhile I've seen a PSE ($450 bow) that at 61#, 29", 375gr that will Chrony at 287...it also has a 8" BH...and people call PSE slow? give me a break!!!


 Good post triman... I agree 100%... PSE is one of a few manufactures who seem to list real speed ratings... But maybe there shooting themselves in the foot... They probably should have just put 318 IBO on all there stuff...:wink: :wink: Just a hunch, but if the majority of guys on here actually set-up and shot there bows at the actual IBO specs i'm quite sure you'd see alot of   faces... 

Cheers
Tim


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## zakk54 (Sep 20, 2005)

hauksniffer said:


> Raising the bar? What bar? They hit their head going under the bar along time ago!


 I'll start by saying that the PSE Mach-X, PSE Diablo and the PSE Mojo are three of the finest, most accurate bows I have ever shot! 


The three have what most would agree to be; the best _*STOCK*_ grip in the industry, HANDS DOWN!!!! The Diablo NRG will shoot right there with a Switchback, Tribute or Vectrix with the ability to feel your shot, especially if *YOU* make a bad one!


There is no question that Mathews, Bowtech & Hoyt are great bows, I've had at least two of each company's offerings in the last 4 years!!! 

*SO I CAN MAKE AN EDUCATED ANALYSIS!!!*

The problem I have with these other Manufacturers, as do many of my friends and colleagues is the feeling you're making great shots every time even if you are not! Some of the bows from the Company's mentioned above are so quiet and Vibration free that they lull you into a sense of security and provide no feedback during the shot process! The PSE Bows Mentioned above are also very quiet and vibration free but not to the point of loosing all feedback from the shot!

How did PSE Raise the Bar? They have once again with the PSE, AR & Browning lines come out with bows for every archer in a price range that everyone can afford! They have their big money bows like the other company's but they also have some great hunting bows in the mid-price line that no other manufacturer can touch as far as quality for the money! Top the above mentioned with the best Customer service in the business and yes they have raised the bar!


I think the only other company that is building bows with the true shooter in mind is ROSS!! I recently shot their 34" offering and was pleasantly surprised with the overall feel and accuracy! Was it better than the PSE Diablo or Mach-x??? No, but it offered the same feedback when shot and held like an anvil on target as well... 


I so love the negativity on Archery Talk! It is by far the best sight for archery info on the Web, but it seems like every thread you read has bashing on someone's thoughts or on a Manufacturer... A little respect for peoples opinions and thoughts would go a long way here!!!!!

Mike B


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

They look sweet, although I'm looking to pick up a diablo or ar 32 or ar35.

Good going pse.

I didn't care for all the negativity on the pse bows within this thread. It's a very good bow, just shoot them.


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

This site has a lot going for it, but the constant negativity and lack of respect of others detracts from it's value. We all have our favorite brand of equipment. It's kind of fun to razz our friends about what equipment they shoot. We all have little funny names for the other brand bows. But I would not completely disrespect my friends just because they like or shoot a different brand. There are a lot of great bows being manufactured today each with positives and negatives. Our choices for equipment are dependent on many factors, cost, availability, speed, noise, vibration, grip, mass wieght etc. These parameters are measurable, opinions are not especially from individuals who have not even tried the equipment. 
This site would be great to exchange factual information on set-up, broadheads, vanes etc but instead I see insults and slams thrown at different brands or even worse thrown at the individual who posted. The site should be used to exchange factual information, not insults. Maybe we need a seperate forum just for disrespectful and worthless comments.
I'm not posting this because I shoot PSE, but because I am a avid archer and bowhunter and enjoy talking, listening to and learning from fellow archers and bowhunters. I'm not interested in hearing the constant slams it only shuts the comunication down.
Sorry this is so long but I felt it needed to be said.
DFA


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## Hemingway (Sep 7, 2005)

zakk54 said:


> The problem I have with these other Manufacturers, as do many of my friends and colleagues is the feeling you're making great shots every time even if you are not! Some of the bows from the Company's mentioned above are so quiet and Vibration free that they lull you into a sense of security and provide no feedback during the shot process! The PSE Bows Mentioned above are also very quiet and vibration free but not to the point of loosing all feedback from the shot!


Sorry, am I the only person that finds this both hysterical and ridiculous? Talk about the all time best BS marketing tactic. Convince people that their bow is "TOO QUIET"!!! New slogan: "PSE, we're quiet.... but not TOO quiet" 

Sorry Mike, but if you believe that you've drunk the punch!!!


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## zakk54 (Sep 20, 2005)

Hemingway said:


> Sorry, am I the only person that finds this both hysterical and ridiculous? Talk about the all time best BS marketing tactic. Convince people that their bow is "TOO QUIET"!!! New slogan: "PSE, we're quiet.... but not TOO quiet"
> 
> Sorry Mike, but if you believe that you've drunk the punch!!!


My statement is not only factual but accurate! I'm not a corporate man nor do I have anything to gain by my posts... BS Marketing therefore does not apply as I would be marketing for whom? I never stated a bow could be too quiet as my Diablo is as quiet or quieter than any other bow I've ever shot! Maybe I'll re-explain things to help clear up any misunderstandings...

Feedback is based on what you feel by the most part, I/E professional golfers use "Blade" Irons for feel instead of cavity Backs! A Bow that has no feedback at all lacks feel... Therefore you are lulled into thinking every shot is good even when it's not. I had a Q2XL that I thought I shot better than any bow I ever had! But that wasn't the case! Shots that I normally would have known were bad as soon as they went off felt perfect! They definitely were not!!! Maybe this isn't how some people shoot, but its how 70% of the shooters I know do! Maybe it's a target archer thing, but it still applies to hunting setups in my neck of the woods! 

Also, as I said in my last post the new Ross bows have a very similar feel and shot feedback, and are a truley great product... CSS made some of the best shooting bows of all time, they also had that Feel.... No brand Bias just facts! :wink: 

Thanks,
Mike B


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2005)

tsilvers said:


> Rob..
> 
> Just curious... Are you suggesting PSE has copied other manufactures with these bows???   Look a little closer... Better yet if you get a chance go shoot some and you will see validity in zakk54's comments....


No, I am not suggesting anything...perhaps you are the one that needs to look a little closer - closer to my post. There is no bashing there or negatives, but just a simple request: Tell me what about these bows "raises the bar" because I am in the market. To me, the specs look like most other higher end bows out there.


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

DFA said:


> This site has a lot going for it, but the constant negativity and lack of respect of others detracts from it's value. We all have our favorite brand of equipment. It's kind of fun to razz our friends about what equipment they shoot. We all have little funny names for the other brand bows. But I would not completely disrespect my friends just because they like or shoot a different brand. There are a lot of great bows being manufactured today each with positives and negatives. Our choices for equipment are dependent on many factors, cost, availability, speed, noise, vibration, grip, mass wieght etc. These parameters are measurable, opinions are not especially from individuals who have not even tried the equipment.
> This site would be great to exchange factual information on set-up, broadheads, vanes etc but instead I see insults and slams thrown at different brands or even worse thrown at the individual who posted. The site should be used to exchange factual information, not insults. Maybe we need a seperate forum just for disrespectful and worthless comments.
> I'm not posting this because I shoot PSE, but because I am a avid archer and bowhunter and enjoy talking, listening to and learning from fellow archers and bowhunters. I'm not interested in hearing the constant slams it only shuts the comunication down.
> Sorry this is so long but I felt it needed to be said.
> ...


 I'm glad someone atleast posted what most forum users are thinking. I myself can say I'm guilty of slamming every so often. My new years resolution is not to slam once this year(2007). I atleast can admit to slamming people or product. I am taking the high road for now on. 

Getting back to pse, there very good at putting out a very functional bow. I don't think there going to put out a real burner of a bow, but a more functional, practical, enjoyable shooting bow at a fair price that will get the respect and loyalty from the masses that don't want to spend $800. It sounds like to me from other fellow pse bow owners that their service is awesome! That right there will keep them in the game and build brand loyalty. I hope pse / ar keep climbing and fighting for marketshare. I can see and respect their path at which their taking with their line. Anybody can go buy a faster bow from a different manufacturer, but how much faster do you need? "It's not the arrow, it' the indian" 300-310fps is plenty fast.


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

if your looking and want to spend around $400 then you can look at the brute, Rogue NH and NP...I know the Rogue NH at 62# w/375gr arrow on 29" draw shot 287-289...which is better than some companies BC at IBO weight arrows...so bang for the buck/raising the bar the mid line PSE are hard to beat...why spend the other $350 for brand x when you can get similar or better performance out of brand Y???? plus they do there performance mostly around 7 3/4"-8 1/4" bh instead of 7 - 7 3/4"....


[email protected] said:


> No, I am not suggesting anything...perhaps you are the one that needs to look a little closer - closer to my post. There is no bashing there or negatives, but just a simple request: Tell me what about these bows "raises the bar" because I am in the market. To me, the specs look like most other higher end bows out there.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> No, I am not suggesting anything...perhaps you are the one that needs to look a little closer - closer to my post. There is no bashing there or negatives, but just a simple request: Tell me what about these bows "raises the bar" because I am in the market. To me, the specs look like most other higher end bows out there.


 Did you read the rest of my post... you only quoted the first part... Your answer was in the second half...:wink: :darkbeer: 

Cheers
Tim


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## 2050z (Aug 5, 2004)

somebody buy my 04 AR 34 Ram and half so I can get me a new Mach X. :shade: 

Carry on....


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## Rooster Cogburn (Mar 5, 2005)

1DX said:


> Pse comes out with hyper light limbs and then low and behold here comes Mathews with the Drenalin..Any one seen The Drenalin,s limb?.You guessed it,Same as Pse,s ..In that respect Pse raised the bar ..But 308 or what ever is not that big of a deal..310 for the Firestorm x..So what The x is only a upgrade from the first Firestorm..I shot Pse for sixteen years and IMO the older bows such as the Firefight Deer hunter with the 688 magna glass Graphite limbs were better then the new Pse,s that have come out..But then again I feel that The Lx that I have and always will have is better then the new Mathews that have come out..
> 
> This is not bashing or trying to make people mad..And if I have then I,m sorry


The Hyperlight refers to limb *pockets*, or lack thereof, not the limbs themselves.

And by the way, Kodiac Outdoors had the Limb 2 Riser system prior to PSE's Hyperlight system, so who followed who? :wink:


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> The Hyperlight refers to limb *pockets*, or lack thereof, not the limbs themselves.
> 
> And by the way, Kodiac Outdoors had the Limb 2 Riser system prior to PSE's Hyperlight system, so who followed who? :wink:



HEHE i read you loud and clear lamo


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## GR5150 (Feb 11, 2006)

I sure hate to see all the negativity here. I just verbally committed to shoot for PSE and just picked up a Mojo 3d. I love the BEST grip. I have shot Hoyt's, Mathews, AR's and several other brands and have liked features about all of them. If you don't like a certain bow, DON't buy it. Don't put down someone cause they like a certain model or manufacturer. If we can't respect each others opinions/likes and dislikes, how are we going to furthur grow our sport or "passion to some". How does this thread look like to someone who might be looking to start archery?..Not GOOD I'll tell you that.
I personally feel every company builds a good product today. Find the one you like and buy it and enjoy the sport and support each other. I'm off my soapbox now. Wish everyone the best of luck this year in your endeavors.


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## fatboyte (Mar 29, 2006)

just my thought of it all, i can take any of the new bows out there and properly tune it and put an STS on it and there is no difference at all but maybe a little speed and $$$$$$$$$


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:


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## Coca Cola (Oct 24, 2006)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:


I also prefer to judge books by the cover :wink:


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:



Straight handles allow for shorter more effecient limbs and a more compact bow package.... :darkbeer: :darkbeer: Looks are completely subjective... As far as catching up.... What is there to catch??

Cheers
Tim


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

*Hmmm How about*



tsilvers said:


> Straight handles allow for shorter more effecient limbs and a more compact bow package.... :darkbeer: :darkbeer: Looks are completely subjective... As far as catching up.... What is there to catch??
> 
> Cheers
> Tim


The Fact that Pse did not even make readers choice this year

Top,s Went too Mathews Hoyt And BowTech

How about SE/PDF FE LBS 1.303 at 60lbs and only 1.075 at fifty..

1.303 is no better then the Xt 

And then fact that as far as over all split limbs go..HOYT rocks the house ..

Yeah Pse has a little bit more catching up Too do


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:


Are you kidding, by far the worst looking bows for the year. I've read some of your posts now and I'm a bit surprised you would say that. There is no way on earth they are the worst looking. They obviously don't appeal to your eye and that's fine but you can't say they are the worst looking because there are so many other manufacturers with futuristic looking designs.

You have to give pse and ar credit for coming up with the mach x / velocity design. the mach x is a very good shooter, read bowhunting worlds test report, it is very favorable. How about this, you shoot a mathews bow right? Have you actually seen their mission bow line? It doesn't appeal to me at all, in fact I think for a off brand line from mathews it's a crappy looking attempt. It shoots ok but it looks & feels cheap. My mathews dealer isn't impressed with what he is seeing with mission bows either, he knows he will sell a few because it's from mathews. Still the mission bow isn't the worst looking bow I've seen. Pretty smooth bow that will probably get better as the years go by. I'm cool with that though. There will be alot of upcoming archers that will attempt to upgrade from their junior bows to the pse/ar and even mission bow lines and some of these price point bows with each manufacturer will be way to create brand loyalty but also hopefully grow the sport. Isn't that the point, grow the sport starting with youth?


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## CntrlIaHunter (Feb 11, 2006)

DFA said:


> This site has a lot going for it, but the constant negativity and lack of respect of others detracts from it's value.
> This site would be great to exchange factual information on set-up, broadheads, vanes etc but instead I see insults and slams thrown at different brands or even worse thrown at the individual who posted. The site should be used to exchange factual information, not insults. Maybe we need a seperate forum just for disrespectful and worthless comments.
> 
> DFA


well put


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

tsilvers said:


> Straight handles allow for shorter more effecient limbs and a more compact bow package.... :darkbeer: :darkbeer: Looks are completely subjective... As far as catching up.... What is there to catch??
> 
> Cheers
> Tim


Just to add to Tims statement here is something for you to try that is kinda fun and it is the basis for straight and deflex risers being more accurate designs. Build a paperclip bow and give it a reflex riser then draw it. Then do the same with a straight and deflex bent paperclip. This should show you why these are better designs.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

1DX said:


> The Fact that Pse did not even make readers choice this year
> 
> Top,s Went too Mathews Hoyt And BowTech
> 
> ...



Just curious what exactly are you trying to say.... Can you explain A little more....    Or was this a cut and paste from some where else.... Totally confused...really...

And yes Hoyt builds great limbs... And great bows... but what do you know about PSE new 9" quad limb to accurately compare and quantify your claim..  :wink:

Cheers
Tim


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## coues hunter (Jul 6, 2006)

if every one on this site was right, then we would all be shooting the same bow because ther would only be one company. everybody is different so quit knocking someone else's bow,it's rude!


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## pseshooter300 (Oct 16, 2005)

either way anytime you post something on here about a bow company it will always get bashed. You never win. The way i see it is if it shoots good for you shoot it. But i dont understand the people that bash the bow companys that have never even shot one the bows they are bashing. Im not even going to go any further on this topic. It will never stop.


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## ronyurong (Oct 19, 2002)

*Pse*

I like my PSE. PSE has been around a very long time and is still around with more patents out there than others. I don't bash other archers shooting equipment I just enjoy the sport and you bring whatever you shoot


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

Today's equipment continues to push the cutting edge of technology. Lots of new items to play with. Some work well, some not so well. None of the manufacturers deliberately build junk. Just different trains of thought with the intent of improving our sport.
The human brain is like a parachute....it works better when it is open..
DFA


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## pjridge (Jul 22, 2003)

Great lookin bows. Looking forward to shootin um.


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## Orion6 (Jan 27, 2003)

> either way anytime you post something on here about a bow company it will always get bashed. You never win. The way i see it is if it shoots good for you shoot it. But i dont understand the people that bash the bow companys that have never even shot one the bows they are bashing. Im not even going to go any further on this topic. It will never stop.


Amen bro! Sometimes this site makes me mad because you can't post about anything without someone bashing.
I've shot them all just about and you know what? They're all about equal with a few exceptions.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

tsilvers said:


> Good post triman... I agree 100%... PSE is one of a few manufactures who seem to list real speed ratings... But maybe there shooting themselves in the foot... They probably should have just put 318 IBO on all there stuff...:wink: :wink: Just a hunch, but if the majority of guys on here actually set-up and shot there bows at the actual IBO specs i'm quite sure you'd see alot of   faces...
> 
> Cheers
> Tim



True. I've found that.

I really like the looks of the new bows. I really like my AR. Some of the people on here can just be defined as immature.

JavaMan


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## djkillaz (Apr 14, 2005)

*PSE Raises the bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

I agree !!! Pse is a great bow. most who bash havent shot them. And are loyalists who dont want to try anything else!! I used to be that way. Then I realized I was missing out on shooting alot of nice bows. Makes no sence to hold one self back. And as far as Pse making the best quality priced of low to medium end bows. I agree. I only see one other company who has as many quality medium end bows !! Martin does. Both of these manufacturers dont get the respect they deserve. A line of bows for every enithusiast out there!! I'M OUT!!!!!!!


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Great...more short bows.


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

tsilvers said:


> Just curious what exactly are you trying to say.... Can you explain A little more....    Or was this a cut and paste from some where else.... Totally confused...really...
> 
> And yes Hoyt builds great limbs... And great bows... but what do you know about PSE new 9" quad limb to accurately compare and quantify your claim..  :wink:
> 
> ...


Easy Pse never made readers choice for best bow ..Mathews Hoyt and Bow tec took that three spots..Pse Never even got close tells you were Pse stands as far as good bow,s go ..Now you did ask about Limbs..? Easy again,Hoyt's Limbs have been dried fired more then 15,000 times Mathews And PSE could not even do a fraction of that..And thats a fact and if you don't believe me then why not ask any hoyt shooter in here..Oh yeah the Mach x has low performance .So know here comes the Well how do you it dose have low performance.? Psst I read the test report ..So end of this and you have a nice day ..


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## coues hunter (Jul 6, 2006)

i don't know the truth of this for fact, i was at the pse fac. last year and heard that the mach-x was up to 17,000 dry fires and no problems yet. so maybe you should research be fore you post!


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

readers choice is just a popularity contest-and who knows how many participated. I surely did not.

it's meaningless..


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

06 Mach X
70#
28" dl
358 grain arrow
291 fps

When this is what my bow did I thought it was high performance. Then when I loaded it up with my hunting arrows at 395 grains and installed an 8125 string and cable set that was 2 strands larger (dont ask why) and turned the poundage down to 66 it is shooting in the mid to high 60s while keeping the crimson talons in the 10 ring at 70 yards (ran out of sight). I cant for the life of me see anything low performance about this bow. 

I am not a paid poster. I do have access to all major brands. This is the bow that went to the stand with me this season.


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

JavaMan said:


> readers choice is just a popularity contest-and who knows how many participated. I surely did not.
> 
> it's meaningless..


 Readers Choice is for readers...

Seriously - PSE and its subsidiaries make some fantastic bows. I am dead-keen on the Browning Myst, because I can's afford a Mach X or Diablo. These two bows are simply the best I have had the priveledge of trying.


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## 1DX (Aug 11, 2005)

coues hunter said:


> i don't know the truth of this for fact, i was at the pse fac. last year and heard that the mach-x was up to 17,000 dry fires and no problems yet. so maybe you should research be fore you post!




I,ll say what I want any time I want ..Got a issue with that take up with some one who cares ..Cuase I don,t ..Its called freedom of speech ..DIG IT ..On to the next subject ..I said more then 15,000 times ..HMMM yeah thats what I said ..And after shooting Pse for sixteen years and that,s Evey thing from the Sratoflight too the Tunderflight to Fire flight To the Deer Hunter all with S 3 cams with the HTE and the 688 Limbs I think i know what am talking about..

Oh yeah If you don,t know what the HTE is or the models like the thunder flight the jet flight the deer hunter the Magna flight or vulcan or scamp ..Then talk to Pete or better yet Terry ,,I am sure they can tell you all about them .Then come back one here and tell me i need too do research ..Until then Happy shooting ..

HEHEH LMAO


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2007)

1DX said:


> I,ll say what I want any time I want ..Got a issue with that take up with some one who cares ..Cuase I don,t ..Its called freedom of speech ..DIG IT ..On to the next subject ..I said more then 15,000 times ..HMMM yeah thats what I said ..And after shooting Pse for sixteen years and that,s Evey thing from the Sratoflight too the Tunderflight to Fire flight To the Deer Hunter all with S 3 cams with the HTE and the 688 Limbs I think i know what am talking about..
> 
> Oh yeah If you don,t know what the HTE is or the models like the thunder flight the jet flight the deer hunter the Magna flight or vulcan or scamp ..Then talk to Pete or better yet Terry ,,I am sure they can tell you all about them .Then come back one here and tell me i need too do research ..Until then Happy shooting ..
> 
> HEHEH LMAO




for some one who doesn't care your sure mouth off alot, it's quite clear that your only pupose here was to simply bash


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

the guy is illiterate. Just read his post. He's not worthy of owning a PSE

JavaMan


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

1DX said:


> Easy Pse never made readers choice for best bow ..Mathews Hoyt and Bow tec took that three spots..Pse Never even got close tells you were Pse stands as far as good bow,s go ..Now you did ask about Limbs..? Easy again,Hoyt's Limbs have been dried fired more then 15,000 times Mathews And PSE could not even do a fraction of that..And thats a fact and if you don't believe me then why not ask any hoyt shooter in here..Oh yeah the Mach x has low performance .So know here comes the Well how do you it dose have low performance.? Psst I read the test report ..So end of this and you have a nice day ..



1DX... oh and also Who's test report did u read??? What and where do you get your info and what exactly does it mean??? Any Hoyt shooters wanna chime in... I guess you guys got all the answers or know all the facts when it comes to PSE (according to 1DX)....:wink: :wink:   J/K... Now back to the topic... 

Cheers

Tim


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Yes PSE makes some great low end bows. For the beginning archer and one that is on a tighter budget I'm all for PSE. As for putting out bows that compare equally in price to the big boys, PSE needs to take a seat. If you are willing to pay $500+ on a bow you should not be looking PSE's direction. The box stores sucker you into buying these overpriced "primitive bows" (by todays industry standards) when you should be at your local proshop looking at real bows for that kind of money. Go ahead and try to resale a PSE good luck! You might as well give it away. PSE just needs to know its place in the archery industry and stay there.


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

1DX said:


> The Fact that Pse did not even make readers choice this year
> 
> Top,s Went too Mathews Hoyt And BowTech
> 
> ...


readers choice??? who really cares?? it comes down to a popularity contest and who believes sales pitches....if you want a truly unbiased opinion on stuff you have to go to comsumers reports where they buy everything then test it instead of having stuff handed to you to test...kind of like reviews on restaurants, you give a more favorable review depending on who "treated you well".....
yes Hoyt makes the best split limbs bar none along w/some of the best anodize jobs in the market but if you don't like PSE then it's your problem and it would be nice for a thread not to turn into a bash by people who have the "mine's better than yours because I fell for a sales pitch and paid more" attitude...give us a break 1dx


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

JWaltrip said:


> Yes PSE makes some great low end bows. For the beginning archer and one that is on a tighter budget I'm all for PSE. As for putting out bows that compare equally in price to the big boys, PSE needs to take a seat. If you are willing to pay $500+ on a bow you should not be looking PSE's direction. The box stores sucker you into buying these overpriced "primitive bows" (by todays industry standards) when you should be at your local proshop looking at real bows for that kind of money. Go ahead and try to resale a PSE good luck! You might as well give it away. PSE just needs to know its place in the archery industry and stay there.


 Another one...:darkbeer: :darkbeer: 

Based on what... Assuming you shoot a BT... What makes is better other than your opinion???  Lay it out there for me... Back up your claim(s)...  

What have you compared your BT to come to your conclusions???  

Cheers
Tim


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## Q2DEATH (May 12, 2003)

Ha-Ha, its been quite a while since we've had an AT bow bash verbal throwdown. Reminds me of what it was like around here three years ago. Funny stuff.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Readers Choice:teeth: For the life of me I cannot figure out why folks think it's the bowukey: You can put any properly tuned bow in a Hooter Shooter and it will drive tacks...It's always the Shooter that wins not the Bow.
I have owned Jennings, Hoyt, PSE, Browning, AR, Martin, High Country, Mathews...I have found something good about all of them, I suggest folks work on the form aspect other than "Reader's Choice" lol

Shoot what you like!


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

PSE = *P*ieces *S*cattered *E*verywhere:teeth: :teeth: Great entry level bow but .........


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

Ok....Marvin and 1dx are obviously degrading the purpose of the thread so PLEASE if have nothing useful to say just stay on your mathews or BT threads where you belong.....you are really giving archery a black eye by even being involved with your bad attitudes....


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## thespyhunter (Apr 8, 2005)

1DX said:


> I,ll say what I want any time I want ..Got a issue with that take up with some one who cares ..Cuase I don,t ..Its called freedom of speech ..DIG IT ..On to the next subject ..I said more then 15,000 times ..HMMM yeah thats what I said ..And after shooting Pse for sixteen years and that,s Evey thing from the Sratoflight too the Tunderflight to Fire flight To the Deer Hunter all with S 3 cams with the HTE and the 688 Limbs I think i know what am talking about..
> 
> Oh yeah If you don,t know what the HTE is or the models like the thunder flight the jet flight the deer hunter the Magna flight or vulcan or scamp ..Then talk to Pete or better yet Terry ,,I am sure they can tell you all about them .Then come back one here and tell me i need too do research ..Until then Happy shooting ..
> 
> HEHEH LMAO


I think you have anger issues and an over-inflated ego. You should also learn to spell correctly..... so end of this and have a nice day :teeth:

If you dont like the thread, dont read it.


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

trimantrekokc said:


> Ok....Marvin and 1dx are obviously degrading the purpose of the thread so PLEASE if have nothing useful to say just stay on your mathews or BT threads where you belong.....you are really giving archery a black eye by even being involved with your bad attitudes....


hey I owned one, like i said, nice entry level bow. it wasn't bad but not as good as others.


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

by the way you started it off it implied it was just another bash...as far as entry level....NOT!!! obviously you haven't shot any of their mid-high end bows if you consider them "entry level"......sure they have the nova at a price to get people involved who don't want to spend the $ but they have some nice stuff in the mid to high range...


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

trimantrekokc said:


> by the way you started it off it implied it was just another bash...as far as entry level....NOT!!! obviously you haven't shot any of their mid-high end bows if you consider them "entry level"......sure they have the nova at a price to get people involved who don't want to spend the $ but they have some nice stuff in the mid to high range...


PSE firestorm- but thanks for implying. Found my legacy to be smoother and stronger plus a much better grip. you need to come to grips with the smilie faces


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

JWaltrip said:


> Yes PSE makes some great low end bows. For the beginning archer and one that is on a tighter budget I'm all for PSE. As for putting out bows that compare equally in price to the big boys, PSE needs to take a seat. If you are willing to pay $500+ on a bow you should not be looking PSE's direction. The box stores sucker you into buying these overpriced "primitive bows" (by todays industry standards) when you should be at your local proshop looking at real bows for that kind of money. Go ahead and try to resale a PSE good luck! You might as well give it away. PSE just needs to know its place in the archery industry and stay there.


I definately wouldn't say these pse bows are overpriced and primitive. Have you shot the pse mach x or diablo? They are in the same class as your bowtech or mathews. I would be the first to say that the bowtech is a very fast bow, more so than the pse's, quiet and smooth. Is mathews or bowtech years & years ahead than pse's bows that I mentioned, NO, are they ahead in ways, Yes in small ways but not leaps and bounds. 

In my area the pse diablo sells for $589 and the mathews xt and bowtech tribute and allegiance sells for $699. Besides speed with the bowtech (thanks to darton's speedy cams) there isn't that much difference. The mathews xt is the smoothest bow I have ever shot along with some of the darton bows. The diablo and mach x are every bit as quiet and smooth as any bowtech I have shot. I still would give the edge to the xt for smoothness. Still all great bows, shoot the one that feels and fits best in your hands and the one you can afford so you can enjoy life.

I see your point with with the over$500 purchase, you shouldn't look at pse. But if your not starry eyed with the latest coolest name brand or have to have the hottest selling bow out there and let the bow do the talking for itself. You will see that pse and their bow line as of late can hold their own with any company. As for service PSE might just be the one setting the example and that right there will win the fight long term. How many stories on AT has everyone read about how they won't ever get away from pse because pse took care of them in a timely manner? Dozens and Dozens. That will always create brand loyalty.

As for box stores and which companies put a line in them, NO ONE ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has any room to talk, diamond, reflex etc, I won't even elaborate on that topic nor am I trying to slam or stir the pot, but stating the humble obvious.

Have a nice day
Go PSE / AR & Darton


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

Marvin said:


> PSE firestorm- but thanks for implying. Found my legacy to be smoother and stronger plus a much better grip. you need to come to grips with the smilie faces


 in all honesty the firestorm is a starter bow at best....you need to look at the Diablo, Octane or Catalyst in order to get a feel for PSE bows fit/finsh/quality.....your comparing a 30" ata w/8 3/4 bh to a 34" ata 7 3/4" bh...hey i am glad you foud a grip you like which is unusal from what i've read on here about mathews bows...the first thing it seems most guys do after spending $700 on the bow is go get a custom grip for another $75 to put on it...


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## bearr (Jul 21, 2006)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:


Its straight riser maneuvers/feels like a very stable, 40-45" ATA bow, but being combined with short, closely parallel limbs gives it the short ATA a lot of bowhunters are looking for these days. Anything under 4 pounds isnt heavy, but besides, a heavier bow is more stable, torque free, and quieter/shock free than a lighter one. This bow could be shot for any kind of archery out there, I know I want one!


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## bearr (Jul 21, 2006)

And for all you "loyalist" out there, youre startn to get *really* annoying; So unless you have _some_ experience w/ PSE then try to settle down your remarks. Just my 2 cents -bearr


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## PABowhunt4life (Feb 3, 2005)

Hats off to PSE for trying something innovative, but personally I'm not a fan of the 49" straight riser and the 4" limbs ukey:


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

but you like their limb pockets i see by what bow your shooting????


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## J-Daddy (Aug 7, 2003)

Hahahahaha, look another thread about PSE has turned into the usual BullS---.
Who didnt see this one coming? I'm a loyal PSE/AR shooter but here's my plee to everyone else on here that doesnt become automaticly "full o' crap" when they here the name PSE mentioned on here....Just post all the PSE/AR/Browning info on PSE's forum so these fights dont pop up all the time. It's VERY clear that you can not post anything about PSE on here without some people starting crap so let's not even bother. I get sick and tired of reading this stupid crap on here everyday...Yes, all compaines get bashed on here sooner or later, but PSE catches the ass-end of everything and it's just childish and uncalled for. 
Oh, before anyone starts on me...I've owned them all "except ROSS" over the past 20+ years so please dont tell me I have no ground to talk about a certain companies quality of bow...I like them all, all the big names build great bows nowdays, I just prefer PSE/AR because of their grips more than anything.......
Have a nice day....


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

JWaltrip said:


> Yes PSE makes some great low end bows. For the beginning archer and one that is on a tighter budget I'm all for PSE. As for putting out bows that compare equally in price to the big boys, PSE needs to take a seat. If you are willing to pay $500+ on a bow you should not be looking PSE's direction. The box stores sucker you into buying these overpriced "primitive bows" (by todays industry standards) when you should be at your local proshop looking at real bows for that kind of money. Go ahead and try to resale a PSE good luck! You might as well give it away. PSE just needs to know its place in the archery industry and stay there.


I forgot to mention that I have owned three because I didn't know any better. And was lucky that I was able get rid of everyone of them. I can understand the loyalty that PSE bow owners show because you are stuck with them forever. Nobody in there right mind is going to buy used PSE. They might as well buy one new for relatively the same price. I was a little harsh with the "primitive bows" crack because PSE is very good at playing follow the leader. But I was right on with the overpriced bit. Look what you can pick up a Vengeance for nowadays compared to when they came out not that long ago. Hoyt, Mathews, Ross and Bowtech have earned respect. You PSE lovers think you deserve it. Face it you are a low-end, one step behind follower. Know your place: accept it and embrace it.


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## buckmark23 (Jul 1, 2006)

*I will need to test one!*

Go ahead and send me a free PSE bow. I will test it out for a whole year and gladly return it. The only way I can give a honest answer is if I can test the bow, So send me one, Please!!:shade:


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

trimantrekokc said:


> in all honesty the firestorm is a starter bow at best....you need to look at the Diablo, Octane or Catalyst in order to get a feel for PSE bows fit/finsh/quality.....your comparing a 30" ata w/8 3/4 bh to a 34" ata 7 3/4" bh...hey i am glad you foud a grip you like which is unusal from what i've read on here about mathews bows...the first thing it seems most guys do after spending $700 on the bow is go get a custom grip for another $75 to put on it...


Probably so now. I had that bow probably 5 years ago but with a 30 inch draw it was interesting to shoot. It wasn't a bad bow but when you start a thread that says "raising the bar" , we would hope there would be something of content on how their designs are SURPASSING the rest. You will find that the Bow efficiency testing by Norb Mullany( bow hunting world magizine) said that mathews designs are the most efficient designs he has tested. Yes he has tested PSE.


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## J-Daddy (Aug 7, 2003)

I'll almost agree with the point of "raising the bar" not being the best title for this thread. PSE/AR makes a fine bow, I've liked all of mine as well as any of the Bowtech's,Hoyt's or Mathews I've owned in the past....With that said, PSE probably hasnt "raised the bar", they did come out with a unique concept in the Mach-X / Velocity & now the 2 new bows but it isnt earth shattering...I do like the straight riser design, I shot a Mojo 3-D all this year and it was a tack driver.....Personaly I think Bowtech has probably been the one company to raise the bar, 1st with the smokin fast Binary cams and now the new riser design....Now with all that being said, everyone just stop the bashing & trash talking...Stuff is starting to get a little personal on here for no reason at all and if it keeps up this thread & some of the people posting in it might get "OXycleaned"...It's happened before on here and it'll happen again I'm sure.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Marvin said:


> PSE = *P*ieces *S*cattered *E*verywhere:teeth: :teeth: Great entry level bow but .........


HAHAHAHAHA you are hilarious...real original:jeez: :nerd:


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Marvin said:


> Probably so now. I had that bow probably 5 years ago but with a 30 inch draw it was interesting to shoot. It wasn't a bad bow but when you start a thread that says "raising the bar" , we would hope there would be something of content on how their designs are SURPASSING the rest. You will find that the Bow efficiency testing by Norb Mullany( bow hunting world magizine) said that mathews designs are the most efficient designs he has tested. Yes he has tested PSE.



Marvin... *So how does the new PSE X cam compare??? *Yes he has tested several PSE models in years past... But my suspicions are you probably have a very limited knowledge or understanding of published data...ukey: And yes Mathews have made several good bows with very adequate "dynamic efficiency" ratings... But don't try to read in to much of what you don't know... :mg: :mg: :embara: 

Cheers
Tim


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

tsilvers said:


> Marvin... *So how does the new PSE X cam compare??? *Yes he has tested several PSE models in years past... But my suspicions are you probably have a very limited knowledge or understanding of published data...ukey: And yes Mathews have made several good bows with very adequate "dynamic efficiency" ratings... But don't try to read in to much of what you don't know... :mg: :mg: :embara:
> 
> Cheers
> Tim


Tim, I am fairly capabale of understanding the data, His last article/test, I believe he tested the mach x. Outside looking in once again. I don't have it in front of me or Id help you understand it. ukey: I like to read them all. I am sure your much more qualified than most of us...yeah right. Once again, What bar have they raised?


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

*Here Tim*

Quick comparison
PSE
Mach X - ibo 312 
Brace - 7.25
Axle 33

this is a 2007 bow

Mathews
Switch back ibo 320
Brace 7
axle 33 

this is a 2005 bow I believe

Wheres the bar?:embara: :embara: lets not even get into bowtech


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Marvin said:


> Quick comparison
> PSE
> Mach X - ibo 312
> Brace - 7.25
> ...



This is good.... What does this mean??? How does the Drenalin stack up??

Are you suggesting an advertised IBO rating makes this bow better.... More efficient??? What??? I'm confused..

Please clear this up for me...

Cheers
Tim


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

tsilvers said:


> This is good.... What does this mean??? How does the Drenalin stack up??
> 
> Are you suggesting an advertised IBO rating makes this bow better.... More efficient??? What??? I'm confused..
> 
> ...


Your the expert TIM, please tell us. :mg: :mg: The ibo rating is in indication of the energy transfer...but being the bow stud you are you probably knew that. :mg: :embara:


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Marvin said:


> Your the expert TIM, please tell us. :mg: :mg: The ibo rating is in indication of the energy transfer...but being the bow stud you are you probably knew that. :mg: :embara:


 Marvin... No need to get all sensitive... You chose to come on here and bash... Just back it up is all I ask.... If you can't don't post... 

Cheers
tim


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## Marvin (Feb 17, 2005)

tsilvers said:


> Marvin... No need to get all sensitive... You chose to come on here and bash... Just back it up is all I ask.... If you can't don't post...
> 
> Cheers
> tim


Well fill US in or quit posting yourself. Hows that? You seemed to put yourself and your knowledge ahead of the rest of us so please by all means show us this bar that PSE has raised.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2007)

The real funny thing is the switchback being advertised at 320.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Marvin said:


> Well fill US in or quit posting yourself. Hows that? You seemed to put yourself and your knowledge ahead of the rest of us so please by all means show us this bar that PSE has raised.



I think we have.... Straight handel geometry... More stable.. better balanced (improved c/g).. less torque.. Shorter lighter 9" quad limbs for improved efficiency... Not to mention a more compact bow package... New modular adjust x cams with additional post adjustment for minute draw lenghth adjustments... Asymetrically grooved light weight idler wheels which allows for removal of idler serving... Numerous grip options... Light weight unibody limb pockets.... factory limb tip and cable rod dampners.... And accurate IBO ratings to boot!!!  

And on the Mach x... Individual quad limb adjustment bolts which allow for independent tuning and an ability to adjust cam attitude... Did I mention the Mach X can be completely broken down in the field with out the need for a bow press!!!!:mg: :mg: Does your bow do that??? Yea I'd say raised the bar.....  
I think you get my point...

Cheers
Tim


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## RobVos (May 23, 2002)

Why all the haters? -- I think they are just afraid that PSE makes a bow comparable to what they shot. I don't shoot PSEs, but they do make outstanding bows and they have great customer service.

Most guys who claim "I owned a PSE before" usually had one a long time ago or a lower end model. Just like when I guy who has been shooting a 20 year old bow buys a new bow and all of a sudden we are suppose to believe he is an expert on all bows when he claims "this bow is by far the best bow I have ever shot." -- Easy to say when comparing it to a 20 year old bow.

I think their bows are very good. And as far as using an avertized IBO for comparison, that is only good when comparing bows from the same company. Like the SB at 320 -- not set up to REAL IBO specs.


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

JWaltrip said:


> I forgot to mention that I have owned three because I didn't know any better. And was lucky that I was able get rid of everyone of them. I can understand the loyalty that PSE bow owners show because you are stuck with them forever. Nobody in there right mind is going to buy used PSE. They might as well buy one new for relatively the same price. I was a little harsh with the "primitive bows" crack because PSE is very good at playing follow the leader. But I was right on with the overpriced bit. Look what you can pick up a Vengeance for nowadays compared to when they came out not that long ago. Hoyt, Mathews, Ross and Bowtech have earned respect. You PSE lovers think you deserve it. Face it you are a low-end, one step behind follower. Know your place: accept it and embrace it.


 give me a break jwaltrip....tell you what..why don't you just stay off of here since have nothng but bashing to say, i have read no bashing of other brands on this thread and you come on here and "tell us to know our place and accept it"....please inform us of exactly how dark it is where your head is at???


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

trimantrekokc said:


> give me a break jwaltrip....tell you what..why don't you just stay off of here since have nothng but bashing to say, i have read no bashing of other brands on this thread and you come on here and "tell us to know our place and accept it"....please inform us of exactly how dark it is where your head is at???


now that was funny!


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

c'mon, isn't anybody going to raise the bar anymore?:wink:


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## cfdsmokeater (Jan 1, 2007)

I cut the cable (long story) on my Switchback ($700 bare) two days into the season this year. Pro shop is closed everytime I show up....... think banker's hours on [email protected] least during open seasons. So, I went with my backup bow, PSE Beast ($175 bare).

And guess what, the two deer I killed this season did not laugh @ me. In fact they did not care about IBO, ATA, Brace, 1 or 2 cams, let off, price, etc. 

The conclusion I have come too is that (while the PSE Kool-aid taste more like flavored drink) PSE has done the job for me in the past and the present.

Ride on PSE, Ride on.

Thanks, Joe.


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## BHTGdogs (Mar 31, 2005)

What is the 07 firestorm selling for.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

I will be in my place and accept it & embrace it... out of 106-shooters in my class this Sat. I won with my MOJO There were 2-other MOJO shooters that one 1st as well. I guess Nathan Brooks knows his place too!  
I do think that AR is a bit behind..they could make a 37"+ bow again.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

I think PSE is going to be going places with that X technology. That combination of short limbs, independantly adjustable, straight riser, and the compact package is impressive.

the more I shoot my AR Velocity the more I like it.

JavaMan


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## rodeoman67 (Nov 10, 2004)

i have shoot both the mach-x and the mojo and i love them both the only reason yall are saying that pse is a bad bow is because yall are going of what the past has brought. Every one keeps saying hoyt and mathews but have you shot the pse. I have shot the hoyt, mathews and pse in tour. and i love the way the pse shoot. Think about how many year pse ruled the tour. with the mack series of bow. so befor you hate on the bow why done yall stop going by name brand and actually go and shoot the bows befor you talk about them. bryce


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## N BROOKS (May 7, 2004)

And by the way, Kodiac Outdoors had the Limb 2 Riser system prior to PSE's Hyperlight system, so who followed who? :wink:[/QUOTE]

No offense, but Browning had it b4 Kodiak was even a bow company.... Browning was not part of PSE at that time....


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## CoppertoneSPF15 (Mar 14, 2006)

Marvin said:


> Your the expert TIM, please tell us. :mg: :mg: The ibo rating is in indication of the energy transfer...but being the bow stud you are you probably knew that. :mg: :embara:


Keep in mind that there is more to efficiency than just peak weight and arrow speed. 

A 70 lb Switchback will peak at 70 lbs in the draw but over the entire distance of the draw cycle, you will be putting in X amount of work energy. The Mach X may require less than X amount of work energy for a 70 lb peak draw weight through the draw cycle. Just because the arrow speed is lower, it's efficiency isn't necessarily less. Efficiency is energy out over energy in. 

Here's an easy comparison. A 70lb Tribute with easy mods will shoot a given arrow at say 315-320fps. The same 70lb Tribite with speed mods will shoot the same arrow at 320-325fps. Where does this extra speed come from? Same BH, same peak weight, same draw length, same ATA, same xxx, etc... Is the speed mod more efficient? No, not necessarily. The extra speed is primarily due to the fact that _more_ *work energy* is required during the draw cycle with speed mods. Hence, with more energy stored to begin with, the speed mods will fire out a given arrow at higher velocities than the easy mods despite nearly the same, if not exactly the same efficiency.

Likewise, just a straight comparison like you made... ie... 



Marvin said:


> Quick comparison
> PSE
> Mach X - ibo 312
> Brace - 7.25
> ...


... is not valid. 

Now, if you have numbers to show that the required work energy (Easton Bowmapper can provide this) during the draw cycle of the Switchback is less than the PSE while producing higher velocities with the same arrow, then you have a valid argument.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Marvin said:


> Quick comparison
> PSE
> Mach X
> this is a 2007 bow
> ...


Well, the Mach X is not designed against the SB.
The Mach X was a showcase bow to introduce the technology being used in the bows being put out this year. Notice the PSE X-Force at 350fps using the same technology? The Firestorn - X a sub 30" ATA shooting 300+fps reported as completely shock free and quiet, from NON-PSE shooters from the ATA.

The Diablo is positions against he SB, and I shot them both side by side.

You don't have to quote 2005 when you can go right to the site and get this years specs for both.

Switchback
IBO Rating 318 fps (Approx)
Axle to Axle Length 33" (Approx)
Brace Height 7" (Approx)

Diablo:
IBO Speed:310
Axle to Axle:33"
Brace Height:8.25"

So, for a theoretical loss of 8fps, I gain 1.25 INCHES of Brace Height.
I shot them side by side and I chose the Diablo. 
And, in the real world, my 26" draw Diablo with hunting set-up is shooting as fast as the SB owners with the same draw when shooting spots indoors. 

And the SB shooters who dared to touch a PSE and shot my Diablo love its forgiveness and how it just comes right up to vertical naturally. Several that would not have touched the Diablo on the shelf because it was PSE gave it serious consideration after hearing and seeing it shot in person. One from a 3D shoot told me he was upgrading his 2005 SB to a Diablo. 

But yea, the shop "Pros" are still pushing Mathews and Bowtech because the differential is higher. None of them point buyers to the PSE's first, there is a higher profit margin in the other bows.

Enjoy.


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## fatboyte (Mar 29, 2006)

anybody see the buitifull weather outside:darkbeer:


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

Shaman said:


> Well, the Mach X is not designed against the SB.
> The Mach X was a showcase bow to introduce the technology being used in the bows being put out this year. Notice the PSE X-Force at 350fps using the same technology? The Firestorn - X a sub 30" ATA shooting 300+fps reported as completely shock free and quiet, from NON-PSE shooters from the ATA.
> 
> The Diablo is positions against he SB, and I shot them both side by side.
> ...


If more people would try the diablo and see how forgiving it is compared to the sb xt, more might shoot them. But the pro shop staff is so inawe ofmathews that they get giddy like a school girl getting a new Barbie and Ken Doll set for x-mas. If they would stop getting brand name blinded, like a deer in headlights and have a more open mind they might see the diablo or similar a very good bow. I would rather have the extra brace height myself. I shot the sb xt and it is a sweet shooter, I'm not sure if I would pay and extra $100 for it. There both comparable in specs. I know the illusion from browning is faster than the sb xt. The illusion is a sweet shooter for sure.

Who has a more pro shooters grip? Pse, AR, Browning does. Everything i read on At or mathews forum is that everyone wishes they would change their grip or atleast has done it.
The mach x is not positioned against the sb or really anything in their line. They are creating their own market niche, which is very intellligent to do.
Mark my words "You will see more companies following Pse's lead" For example look at bowtech'gardian, it may be ugly betty, but it shoots very well and it is unique and starting it's own future trend perhaps. 

Pse does not need or have to be the follower.
they can be the leader
Honda's slogan for years and year is "follow the leader"
Pete will lead PSE in the right direction, he always has.

Shaman, they ought to pay me, you and thousands of others to be their spokesman. My god is it getting tiring to constantly defend Pse against all the trunk slammers. I can't believe how much time i spend at work on this and these topics. I work on this stuff more than my work. I'm pathetic sometimes. funny though the passion of archery. I would love to be a pse sales rep. I couldn't leave my VP of sales & marketing job for the insecurity of that market. It probably doesn't pay as well either.

General SHAMAN
Pse soldiers will continue the good fight!


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## centerx (Jun 13, 2002)

Ironic what people classify as "raising the Bar" 

A couple of FPS… Different camo …. Diffent look … handshock .. Or the lack of it 

It means nothing… At least for me raising the bar is ACCURACY.. Durability and Versatility

I think MANY others would argue DEALER Support and giving something back is "raising the bar"

For Example PSE's cam systems are VERY versatile but personally I have shot bows that were more accurate for ME 

HOYTS are also very versatile and they have a more well rounded product line for the types of Archery I enjoy.

Mathews arguably gives more back then any other company they have stuck by the Mom and Pop Pro Shops.. The professional Archery Ranks owe a lot to Mathews and the money they put back into contingency payments. The School Programs are another good example The face of archery would be different without Mathews. Some Pro shops could actually go out if busiss without a popular brand that they could call there own. Definitely some BAR RAISING there and they hardly get recognized for it


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

centerx said:


> Ironic what people classify as "raising the Bar"
> 
> A couple of FPS… Different camo …. Diffent look … handshock .. Or the lack of it
> 
> ...



True and good realistic look at what some company have done and brought a renewed enthusiasm for the sport.

As for hoyt being a better bow for you and your type of shooting, stick with them, no reason to change.

I feel alot of companies are raising the bar in certain ways.

good luck
good luck


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## DFA (Dec 30, 2002)

We constantly hear all the hype about " This isn't your Daddy's bow "
Well I agree.....the new PSE X Force " IS YOUR DADDY'S BOW "    
DFA


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

*me too*



JavaMan said:


> I think PSE is going to be going places with that X technology. That combination of short limbs, independantly adjustable, straight riser, and the compact package is impressive.
> 
> the more I shoot my AR Velocity the more I like it.
> 
> JavaMan


I just picked one up this month. Put a new string on it ASAP. Thing is fast and quiet as a bare bow. Steady as a rock.


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## FLINT HEAD (Aug 5, 2003)

PSE is the shee-ott...:shade:


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## justabowdude (Nov 9, 2005)

Marvin said:


> Your the expert TIM, please tell us. :mg: :mg: The ibo rating is in indication of the energy transfer...but being the bow stud you are you probably knew that. :mg: :embara:


Last I checked, the IBO rating was strictly speed ( 5 gr. per lb.) which really is not close to the same as an indication of the energy transfer, that my friend would be Kenetic energy.


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## justabowdude (Nov 9, 2005)

THIS is raisin' the bar.......
33" a/a
6" B/H
IBO- 346


That would be the new*PSE* X-FORCE


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## BIGT (Feb 10, 2005)

RT1 and Shamon you guys are right on. 

If PSE is falling behind it is because of their dealers. A lot of dealers have just given up on them, at least the high end models. I feel that they have a nice line of bows from low to high. So many shops will hardly have any PSE's on the wall except for the Bruin's and Nova's. The Diablo, the AR's, and the Illusion are right there with Mathews and Bowtechs. The Mach X is the only high end PSE that my shop has stocked in 3 years. Nothing but bruins and Spyders because we sell a ton of them to the youngin's. The shop manager liked the Mach X so we got 4 of them and sold 3 of them in 2 weeks. Are wall is full of Mathews and Bowtech. So it is only obvious that that's what we're movin. Guys that no nothing about archery come in and either ask, whats good? Or they say, I want a Mathews because everyone told them thats what they should get. I am not hating on Mathews be cause I shoot one, but this is whats happening out there, or at least in IL. I hunt with my PSE and shoot spots with my Ovation, but I'm comsidering on going with the Mojo for indoors. Shops will sell what they choose to hang on the wall. Just my take.


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## justabowdude (Nov 9, 2005)

got to shoot the X-Force again last Friday and I am here to tell you that this bow doesnt shoot like a speed bow at all.... 6" brace height that doesn't get into your bow arm, not to mention the "after the shot hand shock" is not what you would expect from a bow that shoots 346 at 70#..... Oh, did I mention that it is really extremely quiet....... I have to have one !!!!


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

BIGT said:


> RT1 and Shamon you guys are right on.
> 
> If PSE is falling behind it is because of their dealers. A lot of dealers have just given up on them, at least the high end models. I feel that they have a nice line of bows from low to high. So many shops will hardly have any PSE's on the wall except for the Bruin's and Nova's. The Diablo, the AR's, and the Illusion are right there with Mathews and Bowtechs. The Mach X is the only high end PSE that my shop has stocked in 3 years. Nothing but bruins and Spyders because we sell a ton of them to the youngin's. The shop manager liked the Mach X so we got 4 of them and sold 3 of them in 2 weeks. Are wall is full of Mathews and Bowtech. So it is only obvious that that's what we're movin. Guys that no nothing about archery come in and either ask, whats good? Or they say, I want a Mathews because everyone told them thats what they should get. I am not hating on Mathews be cause I shoot one, but this is whats happening out there, or at least in IL. I hunt with my PSE and shoot spots with my Ovation, but I'm comsidering on going with the Mojo for indoors. Shops will sell what they choose to hang on the wall. Just my take.


My shop, ted brooks archery in kalamazoo, michigan actually carries, and actually hangs on the wall a number of pse,ar, browning bows. So he actually has stock. The pse rep stopped in a few weeks ago when i was there, super nice guy, and willing to do what it took to get me into a bow. He is a credit to pse!. My local dealer will let me shoot anything and everything in his shop for hours until i find the right fit. Yes he also carries mathews, martin & bowtech and no doubt about it he will sell more of them. He does alright with pse though. What i like is when someone comes in ask what there looking for, and they say i'm not sure. He will reply what do you like? What have you heard? Are you new to the sport? He tries to figure a price point also. He doesn't neccessarily push one brand all the time. He's a good guy. It comes down to what feels good in the hand first, so he will have the customer grab a few bows first. anyways enough of my babble.
I really want to shoot the firestorm x! I might have to sell the diablo or my darton if i like it.


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## BBT Outfitters (May 14, 2006)

I'm not bashing PSE or anything, they have done a lot for the sport and make a good product, but, the limbs on the x-force scare the crap out of me!


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## xtremearchery (Jan 29, 2007)

*pse x-force*

has anyone heard anything on the new x-force. its crazy fast! 347 fps ibo.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

xtremearchery said:


> has anyone heard anything on the new x-force. its crazy fast! 347 fps ibo.


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## pseshooter300 (Oct 16, 2005)

very diferent looking isnt it.


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## bcowette (Jan 11, 2007)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:


The risers are straight so you dont get torque. If the pressure from the limbs is directly above your hand it is less likley to torque the bow sideways in your hand. If the libms are out in front it is easier to torque the bow sideways on a bad shot or with bad form


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## justabowdude (Nov 9, 2005)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:


I was taught when I was young that it was better to keep your mouth shut and thought a fool then to open it and remove all doubt !!!!! Dude. Wake up !!!! name two other manufacturers that build a bow that REALLY shoots 346 IBO................. Whats that..... cat got yer tongue.


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

justabowdude said:


> I was taught when I was young that it was better to keep your mouth shut and thought a fool then to open it and remove all doubt !!!!! Dude. Wake up !!!! name two other manufacturers that build a bow that REALLY shoots 346 IBO................. Whats that..... cat got yer tongue.


OH OH

I smell something brewin.


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## ovation31 (Jan 29, 2007)

i shot the x force, the firestorm x, and the moss oak , at the ata show and was not impressed. if you shoot the x force in a 30" draw it loads up real strong at the end and it just didnt feel good when i shot it. the salesman told me that no one had hit there wrist with that bow even though it had a short brace height. it hit mine 2 out of 3 times. as for the other bows they were nothing special.


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## RT1 (Nov 20, 2006)

*Go Fish*

The water's getting murky.

Hey Shaman, what's up.

The Pse Commander (shaman) is at the helm


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## 2050z (Aug 5, 2004)

It's amazing how people can shoot the same bow and come away with different impressions. I started at the Bowtech booth and worked my way down to Bear Archery booth.

The Bowtech Guardian, Tribute, PSE X Force, Mach X, the Truth, Alpine something bows were quite impressive. To me it all came down to how the bow felt in my hand. The Mach X felt the best to me so I bought one. I really liked the X Force bow as well, but I am not a speed freak. 

One of my good friends is a ME and I had him look at my bow. He doesn't bow hunt, but being a ME he was impressed how well the bow was designed and how well the virbration was barely noticeable when he shot it.

I went to the PSE seminar as well. PSE did a great job explaining the new technology and I watched the Hoyt reps taking a lot of notes. Now PSE reps do the same thing and visit the other manufactures seminars to get the latest news as well. I believe PSE did raise the bar in certain areas and the X technology will take them to the next level. JMHO based on shooting the bows.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

ovation31 said:


> i shot the x force, the firestorm x, and the moss oak , at the ata show and was not impressed. if you shoot the x force in a 30" draw it loads up real strong at the end and it just didnt feel good when i shot it. the salesman told me that no one had hit there wrist with that bow even though it had a short brace height. it hit mine 2 out of 3 times. as for the other bows they were nothing special.



I've shot bows 6" and have NEVER hit my arm. I have never done that with my 6" Supertec.

it could be, no offense, that you don't know how to hold a bow.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

ovation31 said:


> i shot the x force..........the salesman told me that no one had hit there wrist with that bow even though it had a short brace height. it hit mine 2 out of 3 times. as for the other bows they were nothing special.





JavaMan said:


> I've shot bows 6" and have NEVER hit my arm. I have never done that with my 6" Supertec.
> 
> it could be, no offense, that you don't know how to hold a bow.


While some might say they should be unnecessary, with more manufactures already supplying them as OEM on their bows.....
Have trouble with any bow and wrist/arm slap, put on a CSS.
They cost as little at 50 bucks for a custom one dipped in your choice of camo.
Problem, if there even is one, solved.


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## ovation31 (Jan 29, 2007)

ive been shooting mathews for 3 years with out it hitting my arm. it did not hit me in the usual place, it hit me about an inch from my hand. i dont want to buy an $800 bow and worry about it hitting my wrist or spending $50 dollars on some thing to keep it from hitting my wrist also


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

ovation31 said:


> ive been shooting mathews for 3 years with out it hitting my arm.


I guess I missed it. What Mathews are you shooting with what Brace Height?
If you are shooting the 5.5" Mathews and not hitting your wrist, I would bet that the difference in grip between the two bows is causing you to align your arm differently.

Not to say your form is 'incorrect', but every bow is different and shorter BH bows are more critical to differences. Potentially, changing the grip out to the Mathews grip might solve the problem. If the X-Force (or any bow) does not work for you, then fine. But blaming the equipment for not conforming to your style and preference just looks like sour grapes.


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## ovation31 (Jan 29, 2007)

Potentially, changing the grip out to the Mathews grip might solve the problem. 

Id rather just leave it on the mathews so id know i had a good bow


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## BBT Outfitters (May 14, 2006)

Sure is cold out. Got a little snow last night.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

ovation31 said:


> ive been shooting mathews for 3 years with out it hitting my arm. it did not hit me in the usual place, it hit me about an inch from my hand. i dont want to buy an $800 bow and worry about it hitting my wrist or spending $50 dollars on some thing to keep it from hitting my wrist also


 Justa thought here... Regardless of Brace height... Generally speaking to long of a draw length can bite you as it forces one to stretch out and affect proper form... My suspicions are Ovation generally shoots a shorter draw bow... If not it may be a unique grip or hold on his part causing this... Anyway everybody who I have talked with who shot this bow had nothing but great things to say and none claimed of any wrist contact... In fact most seemed quite suprised in that this particular bow didn't or doesn't even feel remotely close to what we normally expect from a speed bow.. Little jump shock etc etc... To each his/her own....  

Cheers
Tim


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## ovation31 (Jan 29, 2007)

i shoot a 31 ovation, and i shot a 30 xforce


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## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

After sitting here reading this for the last few minutes I have come to believe that there are more cocky, wanna-be know it all, idiots in archery than any other group. Ya'll are unbelievable. I would almost rather sell my bows and buy a few more guns than be associated with some of you.............


Also................... that XForce is probably the coolest looking bow I have ever seen. I want to shoot one BAD.


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

ovation31 said:


> i shoot a 31 ovation, and i shot a 30 xforce



Ovation, I used to own a PSE G-Force. If I remember correctly, it had a 5.5" brace height-never once did I hit my arm.

I owned a PSE Nitro 6" brace height-never have hit my arm.

I own a AR Velcocity with a 6.5" brace height and have never hit my arm.

I own a Hoyt Supertec with 6" brace height and have never hit my arm.

I was at my local archery shop shooting Hoyt's new Vulcan with a 6" brace height and never hit my arm there either.

that's why I seriously wonder if you know how to hold a bow-no offense-they are not gripped like you are shaking hands. 

Mathews makes a fine bow, but if was to complain, it would be their grip which I feel does not promote proper hand placement.


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## thespyhunter (Apr 8, 2005)

bowhunt_n said:


> After sitting here reading this for the last few minutes I have come to believe that there are more cocky, wanna-be know it all, idiots in archery than any other group. Ya'll are unbelievable. I would almost rather sell my bows and buy a few more guns than be associated with some of you.............
> 
> 
> Also................... that XForce is probably the coolest looking bow I have ever seen. I want to shoot one BAD.



:set1_signs009:


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

ovation31 said:


> i shoot a 31 ovation, and i shot a 30 xforce


Ok, so you are comparing a bow with Brace Height of 7 1/2" to one with a BH of 6". 
Go shoot the Mathews Prestige and let us know if you get slap.


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## cactus kid (Feb 13, 2006)

i love when peope bash what they call low end bows!

Here is some food for thought... Hoyt, Bowtech, Ross, or mathews has an archer that has completed a super slam with their bows!

But PSE has (three archers, i belive) , and so has Reflex. You dont need to have a BIG NAME bow to kill any game animal in the US. All bows today are amazing compared to bows of just 5 years ago.


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## cactus kid (Feb 13, 2006)

the x force is fast, but i just cant put down the coin on something that has a 6 inch brace height.


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## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

cactus kid said:


> the x force is fast, but i just cant put down the coin on something that has a 6 inch brace height.



Give it a try sometime, you might be suprised. As long as your form is goood you'll be ok. I Shoot my best with my Hoyt Supertec with a 5 3/4 BH.


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## cactus kid (Feb 13, 2006)

have you shot one?


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## JavaMan (Jul 16, 2006)

cactus kid said:


> i love when peope bash what they call low end bows!
> 
> Here is some food for thought... Hoyt, Bowtech, Ross, or mathews has an archer that has completed a super slam with their bows!
> 
> But PSE has (three archers, i belive) , and so has Reflex. You dont need to have a BIG NAME bow to kill any game animal in the US. All bows today are amazing compared to bows of just 5 years ago.



I didn't know Ross or Bowtech had anyone complete the Superslam with their bows.

I know Jimmy Ryan completed his with a PSE, and Gary Bogner uses Hoyt.


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## cactus kid (Feb 13, 2006)

JavaMan said:


> I didn't know Ross or Bowtech had anyone complete the Superslam with their bows.
> 
> I know Jimmy Ryan completed his with a PSE, and Gary Bogner uses Hoyt.


no they havent, i miss typed. use HASNT instead of HAS. and remove hoyt! (so much for english comp 1)


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## fastpassthrough (Jan 25, 2003)

*X force*

I would like say i shot the bow at the ata show and it felt really good i think PSE did a very nice job on this bow! all the pse fans will really enjoy this one:darkbeer:


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## Q!! (May 3, 2005)

cactus kid said:


> have you shot one?


Nope, but I have shot several bows with a 6" BH or less. It can be done comfortably, and they are as accurate as any bow out there if you shoot them right.


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## TAYLOR CO. (Jun 9, 2005)

Shot one at the ATA show...all that I can say is WOW! I loved it. It will be my new hunting bow:tongue: To all the naysayers you should really shoot this bow before passing judgement.


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## bbarnett51 (Jun 15, 2002)

For the record, I DO NOT SHOOT A PSE. However, i think their '07 line up is as impressive as any out there. I haven't always felt like this but this year i do. 
I love the BEST grip!


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## Templar1305 (Oct 24, 2006)

I find the speed wars thing more amusing than gripping myself...
I really don't think a target or a deer can tell the difference between 240 fps or 325.....
It takes more than IBO numbers to impress me....
For one thing, it takes aesthetics....
I am sort of old fashioned...
I prefer PSEs to other makers because their bows just LOOK THE BEST to me. The fact that they seem to perform well and hold up over time (the only other old bow makes I see as many of in my neck of the woods are Bear or Jennings besides PSE) as well as other makes is just the ice cream on top of the apple pie....

I look at the Mach X, or the Velocity, or the AR line up and I feel LUST For these bows, they are so damn beautiful.... Lust people. Lust!
We are talking shear beauty here!

I look at that wierd looking Gaurdian thing by bowtech and it makes me wanna blow my cookies. What were they designing, a bow or a crutch? What were the engineers smoking? 

Something else...A lot of the PSE line up consists of Bows that look like a MAN's bow.... Even the ones under 40 inches in overall height....
I was stunned when I walked into a well stocked archery place for the first time in years and saw what I THOUGHT was a small kids bow and was told , "no sir that is the currently super popular _____ bow made for hunters."
I though somebody was pullin' my leg!
that tiny riser!
Those petite limbs!
I wondered, "do they make pink cammo now or somethin'?"

I think if I ran a national archery magazine, I would run PSE products as CENTERFOLDS!!!!!!

:wink:


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

I like the looks of the firestorm X, I even find the Mach X intriguing for some strange reason....

I think this is a nice looking batch of bows for PSE this year. All in all they have always made a good product over the years.


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## TeamChaos (Feb 27, 2007)

You can tell that some people on here actually know what they are talking about but most dont! PSE for has stepped it up in a big way! Granted I myself hated PSE until I shot the new X-Force and Firestorm-X as soon as I was done with all my tests I threw my Switchback away and ordered them both!


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

*wow!*

Just when I thought I could never agree with anything coming from you. 

I have the Velocity and really like the bow.

BH is a non-issue as long as you have your DL right. This bow holds and shoots better than my AR34 cam & 1/2.





Templar1305 said:


> I find the speed wars thing more amusing than gripping myself...
> I really don't think a target or a deer can tell the difference between 240 fps or 325.....
> It takes more than IBO numbers to impress me....
> For one thing, it takes aesthetics....
> ...


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## ratsodav (Jul 26, 2006)

*No doubt about it*

Ive got the new velocity and it is flingin 513 grains of arrow a whopping 255fps on 28 inches of draw at 70 lbs. And the draw cycle and accuracy is is incredible. AR is a great line of bow is are the other pse's They certainly have come a long way from my old Pulsar. Keep up the good work PSE.
Dave Henderson


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## bearr (Jul 21, 2006)

in the last 4 pages, its already burnt


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## bearr (Jul 21, 2006)

bearr said:


> And for all you "loyalist" out there, youre startn to get *really* annoying; So unless you have _some_ experience w/ PSE then try to settle down your remarks. Just my 2 cents -bearr


ttt


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## bearr (Jul 21, 2006)

bearr said:


> Its straight riser maneuvers/feels like a very stable, 40-45" ATA bow, but being combined with short, closely parallel limbs gives it the short ATA a lot of bowhunters are looking for these days. Anything under 4 pounds isnt heavy, but besides, a heavier bow is more stable, torque free, and quieter/shock free than a lighter one. This bow could be shot for any kind of archery out there, I know I want one!


ttt


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## Templar1305 (Oct 24, 2006)

TeamChaos said:


> You can tell that some people on here actually know what they are talking about but most dont! PSE for has stepped it up in a big way! Granted I myself hated PSE until I shot the new X-Force and Firestorm-X as soon as I was done with all my tests I threw my Switchback away and ordered them both!


Over the weekend I was looking at a two or three year old hunting magazine....
There was this cool add for a PSE bow...
It looked awfully familiar....The add, I mean.....

I got out a farily new magazine I bought last month....
And there was an add for a MATTHEWS bow, but everything else in this brand wonkin' new add looked EXACTLY like the OLD PSE ad! Same layout. Same design. Same color scheme, just about. You had to look twice to realize it was NOT the old PSE ad!
BWa-hahahahahahahhhahahahahahaahhaha!!!!!!!!

I know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but still, some folks go too far....


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## coonhound (Jan 27, 2007)

I don't own a PSE I have never shot one but there is a husband and wife that shoot the same 3D circuit that I shoot and they both shoot PSE and they both clean house at every shoot I go to, they must not be all that far behind.

****


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## BigBuck Man (Feb 23, 2007)

zakk54 said:


> I'll start by saying that the PSE Mach-X, PSE Diablo and the PSE Mojo are three of the finest, most accurate bows I have ever shot!
> 
> 
> The three have what most would agree to be; the best _*STOCK*_ grip in the industry, HANDS DOWN!!!! The Diablo NRG will shoot right there with a Switchback, Tribute or Vectrix with the ability to feel your shot, especially if *YOU* make a bad one!
> ...


Very well said!!!!


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

jjambow said:


> over priced, under developed.


Yea, and the largest camo maker (mossy oak) is going to shoot a under developed bow.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

outbackarcher said:


> PreSchool Equipment
> 
> They raised the bar for the little people.


Guess it is time to put the pre school kids down boy and come it from the swamp.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> No, I am not suggesting anything...perhaps you are the one that needs to look a little closer - closer to my post. There is no bashing there or negatives, but just a simple request: Tell me what about these bows "raises the bar" because I am in the market. To me, the specs look like most other higher end bows out there.


If you actually believe what you read (Bowtech tribute 328--Mathews Drenalin 320) then good luck. PSE bows shoot closer to ibo speed then anyother I have shot. The new riser geometry is more compact than anyother out there which in my mind would make a better hunting bow.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Jeff K in IL said:


> Why are the Risers straight? By far the worst looking bows for the year of 2007. I really don't think PSE is raising anything, they have a while to go to catch up to other manufacterers!:wink:


Called reflexed, not straight. It means less tourqe and a steadier aim (holds on target better) you should try one. And if everyone shopped for bows like you picked out women, 99% wouldn't be married.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

JWaltrip said:


> Yes PSE makes some great low end bows. For the beginning archer and one that is on a tighter budget I'm all for PSE. As for putting out bows that compare equally in price to the big boys, PSE needs to take a seat. If you are willing to pay $500+ on a bow you should not be looking PSE's direction. The box stores sucker you into buying these overpriced "primitive bows" (by todays industry standards) when you should be at your local proshop looking at real bows for that kind of money. Go ahead and try to resale a PSE good luck! You might as well give it away. PSE just needs to know its place in the archery industry and stay there.


That's funny you shoot a box store bow!!


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

JWaltrip said:


> I forgot to mention that I have owned three because I didn't know any better. And was lucky that I was able get rid of everyone of them. I can understand the loyalty that PSE bow owners show because you are stuck with them forever. Nobody in there right mind is going to buy used PSE. They might as well buy one new for relatively the same price. I was a little harsh with the "primitive bows" crack because PSE is very good at playing follow the leader. But I was right on with the overpriced bit. Look what you can pick up a Vengeance for nowadays compared to when they came out not that long ago. Hoyt, Mathews, Ross and Bowtech have earned respect. You PSE lovers think you deserve it. Face it you are a low-end, one step behind follower. Know your place: accept it and embrace it.


OMG......


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

J-Daddy said:


> I'll almost agree with the point of "raising the bar" not being the best title for this thread. PSE/AR makes a fine bow, I've liked all of mine as well as any of the Bowtech's,Hoyt's or Mathews I've owned in the past....With that said, PSE probably hasnt "raised the bar", they did come out with a unique concept in the Mach-X / Velocity & now the 2 new bows but it isnt earth shattering...I do like the straight riser design, I shot a Mojo 3-D all this year and it was a tack driver.....Personaly I think Bowtech has probably been the one company to raise the bar, 1st with the smokin fast Binary cams and now the new riser design....Now with all that being said, everyone just stop the bashing & trash talking...Stuff is starting to get a little personal on here for no reason at all and if it keeps up this thread & some of the people posting in it might get "OXycleaned"...It's happened before on here and it'll happen again I'm sure.


Hmmm, i wonder if the mach x and guardian design have anything in common.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Marvin said:


> Quick comparison
> PSE
> Mach X - ibo 312
> Brace - 7.25
> ...


The prob here marvin is you believe everything that you read.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Sean McKenty said:


> The real funny thing is the switchback being advertised at 320.


Exactaly!!


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

trimantrekokc said:


> give me a break jwaltrip....tell you what..why don't you just stay off of here since have nothng but bashing to say, i have read no bashing of other brands on this thread and you come on here and "tell us to know our place and accept it"....please inform us of exactly how dark it is where your head is at???


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

BHTGdogs said:


> What is the 07 firestorm selling for.


$700


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

ovation31 said:


> Potentially, changing the grip out to the Mathews grip might solve the problem.
> 
> Id rather just leave it on the mathews so id know i had a good bow


:bs: ukey: :bs:


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## HC Archery (Dec 16, 2004)

*No local dealer???*

*Please check out.....*


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=4226481#post4226481


*Glad to help out.*


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