# 5 Spot



## boilerfarmer12 (Nov 22, 2011)

I too shoot BHFS. I shot my first 300 last february. Shot some 299s but always had a boo boo. Had a number of 300s even some in league. Went to state feeling good but ended with a 591 with high 80s x count on the weekend. walked off the line and said I was gonna buy a new elite victory so i had more stab mounting options. went home and decided i was going to shoot nationals the next weeekend. shot a 300 with 56 Xs the wednseday before. setup my new victory this summer and first game was a 300 with 42X. I did buy some new stabs for IBo this year to use and just put them on the victory. seems to shoot great if I do my part.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I've used the same diameter arrows since the CXLs came out, .355" diameter. My arrows changed due to a bit of discount, no longer available and other. My present arrows I use for practice at the time being are the no longer made Muddy Outdoor Virtue HT3s in .400 spine with .355" diameter. My primary target arrows for this coming year are Deer Crossing Archery Target Series, .350" diameter in .500 spine.

Since the summer of 2010 my arrow rests have been the Vapor Trail Limb Driver and Limb Drive Pro (no preference, use either one).

Though I have several releases in thumb and hinge, I've used my TRU Ball ST360 since whenever they came out, 2004 or 5? 

Though I presently use a compete Stinger set up for front and back stabs my longest used stab and still used is my 30" Cartel (about 12 or 13 years old).

My sight frames has been the Sure Loc Challenger since 2002. I have 2 of them, both 400s. I just sold my 2002 Sure Loc 550 I bought with Bull's Eye all carbon housing (incredibly super light).

My scope housing and glass lens is a Bull's Eye Millennium Grande. Special ordered Bull's Eye lens, Dominator, .029" diameter pin hole, armor coated. Not one scratch in over 12 years...

Also using a Ultimate Eagle scope housing (no longer made) using either the Feather Vision 4X lens or Brian's Custom Lens in 4X, both with .019" diameter pin holes. 

Bottom line; Go looking for magic and you're going to be spending a lot of money.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

SonnyThomas said:


> Bottom line; Go looking for magic and you're going to be spending a lot of money.


I like this. In fact, many times when I find myself looking at some new piece of bling dreaming that it will be the magic bullet to hitting more 11's on the 3D course or more X's on Vegas faces, I'll cue up that old vid of Terry Ragsdale from the mid 80's beating the centre of the bullseye like a rented mule using a bow and other kit that almost looks primitive next to mine. And then I'll go practice ;-)


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

The only reason I have swapped out any of my gear was to find a couple of bows that would not play havoc on my post op shoulders. Otherwise, I've been using the same B-Stinger stabs since 2009, the same AAE Freakshow rests since their introduction (I believe in 2010), Axcel sights since 2010 and the same indoor arrows since 2009 or 2010. No need to try to buy points as that path is usually a short-term, futile effort. Like Sonny said, you can spend a lot of $$ trying to chase that magic fix. :wink:

Instead, I find it much more useful to put my time and money into lessons/coaching, improving on my fundamentals, teaching others, and shooting as much as I can. Still hit some bumps along the way, but that's part of the never-ending learning process.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Most of my money has been spent (and continues to be spent) on getting a bow to REALLY fit me well.
Most shops don't carry 40"+ ATA bows, so I end up buying them used without ever having a chance to feel things like the grip size/shape/angle and the feel of the cams.
Working on 1 now.... we'll see.

As far as sights/stabs etc. Still have my old Copper John's ANTS 2. Bought a couple of CBEs for my field and 3-D bows... also arrows to match for those games

99% of the time, if I don't shoot well, I know it's not with the tune of the bow or the components I put on it, the only mechanical issue I have is getting a proper fit from the bow.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I competed with a few crappy accessories for years and yes I did get rid of them and rounded out my setup nicely, it doesn't hurt and once you get it done you have something to be proud of and enjoy. Problem is that if you are having trouble staying in the white on a 5-spot target it isn't the equipment causing the problem, you are going to have to spend some time working on your mental approaches and execution to fix that problem. I would start with the mental approaches and we have lots of information here if you want it.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

For me it's strings and cables. The bow is the component I care about the least so it doesn't change for many years and, ironically, the strings/cables that are on it are the ones that give me the most emotional/PTSD problems. That's partly because a) I tear them up so bad generally due to my own incompetence and b) I'm still only mediocre as a string maker. So it takes a while for me to figure out the right settings and materials for each string/cable I need to make. And even then, I may serve the loop servings too tight and get some peep rotation or something like that and have to start over. And well you get the idea on how that goes.

Tho I've finally surrendered on making my own for the PSE, at least for the moment. I just order them from ABB for now for that bow. But my Hoyt continues to be a guinea pig for my homemade strings.

Pretty much everything else stays as it is once I find the right combination.

DM


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

Get it tuned.
Work on me.

You have to have 100% confidence in your equipment. Doubt in your equipment leads to doubt in your ability. Killing confidence is fatal.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

tmorelli said:


> 4.	Finishing the shot- like grip. Even when you can tune “perfectly”… it won’t make more x’s, 12’s or dead deer for you. Good shots make those. A good test would be to take one shaft and repeatedly punch paper or bare shaft, if you can’t produce identical tears or group with the bare shaft…. Tuning shouldn’t be your first priority. You’ll chase your tail tuning and your time could be better spent. *When you can bare shaft groups and identical tears you’ll soon come to realize that the tune doesn’t make nearly as much difference in scores or groups as it is made out to. Good shots make good groups and good scores….not good tunes.*


A little nugget from one of the best topics ever to hit the pages of AT. ^^^

The key is getting the experience that your belief systems knows this. Especially at 20 yards.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Lazarus said:


> A little nugget from one of the best topics ever to hit the pages of AT. ^^^
> 
> The key is getting the experience that your belief systems knows this. Especially at 20 yards.


Well said. A little mishap with losing vanes on my arrows showed me that at 20 yards, you can still pound Xs with an arrow with only one vane if you make good shots.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

I understand where yall are coming from. Some people spend more time tuning than training. But, is it fair to say that tuning should not be the first priority. Who on this topic ,that is an intermediate or advanced shooter, tunes their bow after new strings or pulling it out of the box. I know I do. So when necessary, tuning is my first priority.


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

subconsciously said:


> I understand where yall are coming from. Some people spend more time tuning than training. But, is it fair to say that tuning should not be the first priority. Who on this topic ,that is an intermediate or advanced shooter, tunes their bow after new strings or pulling it out of the box. I know I do. So when necessary, tuning is my first priority.


Without a doubt. I think the concept is that tuning doesn’t create consistency though.


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## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

cbrunson said:


> Without a doubt. I think the concept is that tuning doesn’t create consistency though.


I agree 110%. Not to mention you can only tune as good as you can shoot.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

subconsciously said:


> I understand where yall are coming from. Some people spend more time tuning than training. But, is it fair to say that tuning should not be the first priority. Who on this topic ,that is an intermediate or advanced shooter, tunes their bow after new strings or pulling it out of the box. I know I do. So when necessary, tuning is my first priority.


I think of tuning as an investment, almost like a piece of gear. Yes, you can shoot very well with the tune off a bit, but sometimes one turn of the D loop on the string, or one turn in on the cable guard bolt can mean the difference between a decently tight group at 30 yards and busting the knocks off the other arrows at 30 yards. 

I admit to doing probably more tuning with my compound vs working on my shot than I probably should, but that's mainly because I'm still working on my shot. So as something in my routine changes, such as my alignment and the grip, the tune will change accordingly. At that point, out come the bareshafts again and I like to dial it in again. 

But that's just my personal approach to tuning. I think it's a skill that I should be proficient at, just like my shot itself, since it does yield dividends at the target. But YMMV...

DM


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

subconsciously said:


> I agree 110%. Not to mention you can only tune as good as you can shoot.


Bingo. And remember the topic was "5 Spot." At 20 yards the shot is many, many, many times over more important than the tune. 

Your comment about confidence in your equipment earlier was spot on though. :thumbs_up


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I think there can often be room to do both at the same (general) time.
When I'm can't be at the range, is when I'll do the majority of my tuning. 
I am a freak about tuning for the reasons listed above and to make sure I have NO excuses.
That one weird flier? No, the bow is tuned PERFECTLY, it wasn't the bow, it was the shooter. It helps keep you honest. 
How many times have you seen someone throw a flier, then instantly look at the bow like it just farted?
Having confidence in your equipment gives you some confidence to start with, but also insures you never miss out on a free "lesson" about your form or execution.
That said, once tuned I leave it the hell alone. Sure I'll check cam timing (at home) on occasion to see if strings are stretching or something, but once it's done, it's done. Trust it, believe in it, then focus entirely on the archer.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Lazarus said:


> Bingo. And remember the topic was "5 Spot." At 20 yards the shot is many, many, many times over more important than the tune.
> 
> Your comment about confidence in your equipment earlier was spot on though. :thumbs_up





mn.moose said:


> I shoot a few leagues and go to a few competitions each year... well last year at the end of the season I shot my first 300. But overall I wasn't happy with the performance that I put in and of my gear. So I rebooted.... new string, arrows, release, stabilizers... *How many other guys swap out their gear all the time? * I shot my first round last night and I was pleased that even with what I thought were a few bad shots I still managed a 300, guess it can only go up from here on the X count.


5 spot was the title, but subject was\is swapping gear all the time.


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## stromdidilly (Jan 8, 2014)

Mahly said:


> I think there can often be room to do both at the same (general) time.
> When I'm can't be at the range, is when I'll do the majority of my tuning.
> I am a freak about tuning for the reasons listed above and to make sure I have NO excuses.
> That one weird flier? No, the bow is tuned PERFECTLY, it wasn't the bow, it was the shooter. It helps keep you honest.
> ...


Bit about the fliers is spot on. Throw one way north or south of an X and the first thing I'll do is tap the cams/rest to make sure no rattles. 99% of the time that checks out and I take comfort in knowing that solid 8/9 liner was all me


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

subconsciously said:


> I agree 110%. Not to mention you can only tune as good as you can shoot.


I touched on this in the other thread. Those that want to bare shaft tune....good everything applies in order to get results. Last I tried bare shaft tuning I sucked, but my bow is tuned and tuned better than I can shoot it. Some of my friends have shot my bows. Impact may be off for them, but adjusting the sights would have them dead on.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3111945&p=1080705569#post1080705569


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## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

Mahly said:


> How many times have you seen someone throw a flier, then instantly look at the bow like it just farted?


Usually when it happens they turn and look at me because I just farted.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Lol!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Mahly said:


> How many times have you seen someone throw a flier, then instantly look at the bow like it just farted?





cbrunson said:


> Usually when it happens they turn and look at me because I just farted.


Grounds for disqualification.....???? Loud or silent but deadly or both loud and deadly?


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

stromdidilly said:


> Bit about the fliers is spot on. Throw one way north or south of an X and the first thing I'll do is tap the cams/rest to make sure no rattles. 99% of the time that checks out and I take comfort in knowing that solid 8/9 liner was all me


Yep, if for no other reason, keeping the mystery out of a bad shot is what a good tune is for. For example, I was out with my Supra Max the other morning finishing a tune with the bareshafts at 30 yards. Before I packed up the BS's were grouping in the gold with the fletched and I'd figured out the grip. The next day a cold front had come in so I went out with some poorly chosen clothing, a bulky but warm sweater. Shot at the 30 yard bale for a while and all seemed fine, until I decided to launch a BS just to check the tune. It went so knock-right that it missed the bale to the left impacting the big metal support for the bale - crushed the point about 4" into the shaft spreading it out like a flower. 

Turned out, my bulky sweater sleeve was pressing against the grip a little putting torque in the handle that I hadn't noticed. Took off my sweater and shot my remaining 2 BS's. Went right in the gold.

Moral of the story: a) pay attention when you're practicing and b) put Padgett's torque indicator on your bow.



DM


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