# Samick Sage Upgrades?



## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

Hey guys, I just bought my first traditional recurve bow, a Samick Sage 40 pounder. I wanted to shoot "off the shelf" with this bow and also wanted to ad string silencers, a fast flight string and a quiver. I know you guys are probably questioned to death about the Samick Sage and are tired of hearing about it. But this is my first ever traditional bow and I wanna make sure im buying the right stuff. Here are my questions:

1. What fast flight string works best with the Sage and what length would it be?
2. Is wool yarn the best way to make string silencers or does something else work better?
3. Please recommend a good one piece 3 arrow quiver that will screw right on in either leather or green, brown plastics.
4. What arrows have you guys found work well for practicing and target shooting with a 40 pound bow?

It is my intention to practice a lot with this bow at 40 pounds and then buy 50 pound limbs in a year or two for hunting. I was in a toss up between the 35 pound or 40 pound Sage but I think im ok with the 40 pounder, im 6'1" and 220 pounds and am a firefighter for a living. Im not saying im a worlds strongman champion but maybe a little stronger than a teenager or average male so im hoping 40 pounds is ok for lots of practice. Also PLEASE feel free to post pictures of your Samick Sage and list what you have done to it. Thanks


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Wood - 

Let's get the lecture out of the way first. 
You're assuming that since you are strong in other areas, it's going to transfer to archery. Maybe, maybe not. 
(Still amazed at how many 220# linebackers we get here ...)
Being able to pull a bow back repeatedly and learning to shoot it correctly are two different things.
Next, you don't have a 40# bow. 
With the information you've given, the odds on you having a 28" draw length are not impossible, but slim. 
The longer your draw length, the heavier the bow. Add about 2# per every inch you draw above 28". 
The Sage (or some of them) may not be too happy over 29". The bow will be fine, but it very well may stack, meaning it will increase more weight per in than expected. 

If you stick with that bow, I'd start with full length 1916s and almost any head weight you choose (100 - 125 grains is average). 
Type, size and color of feathers are your choice - it really doesn't matter. 

I like D97 for a string material, it's cheap and works. AMO 62" will give you the correct length and 14 strands is correct for that bow.
Other materials will have slightly different "feels" and may act a little differently, but as a new shooter, you have nothing the base that comparison on, so go basic.
I prefer endless loop over flemish construction for stability, but that's a person preference.

I've always took silencers to be a last resort, only to be used to quiet a bow that can't be adequately quieted by tuning. 
Most trad types really use string silencers as fashion statements. 

I haven't used a bow quiver in 30+ years. 
Don't like 'em, but others will give recommendations.
The choice is yours.

Viper1 out.


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## jwilson48 (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm not going to answer most of your questions because i am not very advanced in this journey either. The one thing I will say is I wore out a very cheap rug rest from 3 rivers in no time. Then I went to hobby lobby bought a piece of deer hide leather in black and glued in on. It has already lasted longer than the felt cheapo and I've got enough material for 20 more rests when they wear out. I've heard mixed reviews on yarn puffs. I've got beaver balls on one string and otter on the other. Both work fine but I like the looks of the beaver more. I also got a ff string from a local builder that is much better than the ff I got from them. Plus I can get it in any color I want which is cool. I am hoping to get a deer or two with mine this year. I have the samick journey at 45 lbs and at my draw I'm pulling 55 lbs. Good luck to you. It takes weeks of practice to get as good with trad gear to hit as good as the first day with a compound. But it is a fun ride if you are willing to put in the time


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## patrick2cents (Jan 26, 2014)

What I went with:

FF string from 3rivers
Kwikee 3 arrow Kwiver (mounts up perfectly)
I've used toothpicks and the female (soft side) velcro strips to make rests/sideplates. 

Draw weights are subjective-Some can start heavy (whatever that is) and some can't. That's not something that's easy to tell over the internet.

I just built some arrows for a neighbors 40 lbs Sage copy. I used some Carbon Express Heritage 75's @ 29.5" and 145 grain points. His draw is only in the 27-27.5 range, so they work well for him. you'd probably want something a touch stiffer and longer. There are calculators that can help get you in range, and you can read up on bareshaft tuning (though that's somewhat a catch-22 as you need to have a good release and know how to shoot reasonably well before you can trust the results).


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## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

Thank you very much for your replies, I just came back from my local shop again and had my draw length measured. I spoke with a knowledgeable traditional archer who has been working there for years. He saw me draw my bow and said im around 29.5" draw length but told me that my stance was all wrong for traditional archery (I was drawing like a compound). He showed me that when I open up my stance and lean forward into the bow and cant the bow a bit my draw length goes down to 28.5". He said traditional form is very different than shooting a compound or even Olympic bow. Soooo with my feet more open (pointing towards the target a little) and leaning forward into the bow I am drawing roughly 28.5" making my bow around a 42 pound bow. 

I am by no means saying I am a strong man competition champion or anything like that im simply saying im 31 years old and in good athletic shape with no injuries. Hey the LAST thing I wanna do here is overbow myself I have read enough to know that. Im just asking that at the age of 31 years old and being 6'1" and 220 pounds with NO injuries should I be ok with learning on a 40 pound bow? I thought 40 pounds was a decent entry point. Thanks


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Hello. 

Here's a thread discussing common draw weight issues: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=388848 ... food for thought under the belt in passing.

Is 40# a decent entry point? That depends upon how well mated that specific weight is to your existing biology in order to shoot with the technique and accuracy you desire for the amount of repetitive shooting you intend to perform during your practice sessions. 

If you find that you can easily dominate the bow while achieving the aspects of good form technique that you are attempting, and that you are not struggling or fatigued towards the end of your desired practice session, then that weight is mated to your physique. 

If you find that a specific draw weight is preventing you from achieving the technical aspects of the shot due to the weight-lifting component of the draw overpowering and working against your application of technical finesse, then you are over-bowed for your current developmental needs.

You can make this assessment after you begin shooting on a regular basis. If you decide that you need a more relaxed draw weight so that you can hit your form and repetition needs with more comfort and accuracy, then you can pick up some lighter limbs to accommodate this, saving the existing limbs for a later graduation once the hump of the learning curve is crossed. 

Wool yarn makes an excellent silencer, especially if you already have some on hand. Wrap desired winds around a credit card, slip wool bundle between string bundles at desired location, string bow, then snip the loops of the wool on either side to form the puff ball. You'll surely sneeze on the first few shots as the fibers shed and the puff ball takes its shape!

Camera's "Shooting the Stickbow" is an excellent and inexpensive book on ground-up archery technique, equipment, aiming, tuning, arrows, strings, etc. A learning curve trimmer, and will answer many questions as they arise along the way. 

Good luck.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Wood Bow,

There is a lot of variability in how traditional archers shoot, with less rigor put into the study of form. You certainly can shoot a traditional bow similar to a compound or Olympic recurve. Some of the best traditional shooters do just that. I would get a second opinion before you start leaning in and canting the bow.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I would stop listening to anyone who gave me the advice you received from that "expert" unless you do not want to ever achieve even a modest amount of accuracy. That "technique" leads down a dead-end road of mediocrity. 

-Grant


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## patrick2cents (Jan 26, 2014)

Grant,

For my own edification- are you including a slight cant of the bow in with the road to mediocrity? I've found it to help aiming significantly by getting the string out of my line of sight (though the rest of that advice did sound bad even to me and I'm certainly not beyond instruction)


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## MikeG (May 17, 2014)

grantmac said:


> I would stop listening to anyone who gave me the advice you received from that "expert" unless you do not want to ever achieve even a modest amount of accuracy. That "technique" leads down a dead-end road of mediocrity.
> 
> -Grant


I received the same advice during the one lesson I've taken so far. It took all of 50 shots during my next shooting session to realize that style was not going to work for me.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Wood - 

I personally would not go back to that shop, or at least not talk to that traditional guy again. 

Beginning stickbow form is remarkable similar to GOOD compound form. 
Not knowing what your compound form is like, I will just add that a bent bow arm (elbow) is poor form on a compound or a stickbow. 
Doesn't sound like you were doing that.

The fact that what he told you reduced your draw length is a red flag. 
A longer DL is free horsepower. (Assuming you're not anchoring behind your head or something like that.)

Patrick -

For a new shooter, a vertical bow is preferable.
It's just easier to reproduce than a canted one. 

Later on, a consistent cant is fine, and there are a number of ways to achieve that, while maintaining shoulder geometry. 
The last part is what's key. 

Viper1 out.


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## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

Ok, well either way I am going to go back tomorrow and exchange the 40 pound limbs for the 35 pound limbs. I drew my bow today about 20 times to my anchor point with the 40 pound limbs. Although it didn't too seem heavy and was manageable there was still some tension and I felt like it wasn't as smooth as I want to perfect my form. I think the 35's are going to be good, I think I'll be able to smoothly draw to my anchor without moving the bow. I should be able to shoot a lot with the 35's too. 

I can always keep the 35's for target and practice and get some 45's for hunting deer in a few years. Now how about some pictures of your Sages and what you have put on them. Thanks


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## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

Good for you. I like to keep my lower # bow around to let friends and family shoot. Makes it a little more enjoyable when they are not struggling so much. Always fun to have someone to shoot with also . Another good thing about a Sage is that they are easy to sell if you decide you want something different. I don't have my sage any more, but here's a old picture of it.










I had FF string from Lancaster Archery, Bear hair rest, wool silencers, and a Kwikee quiver 6 -arrow. I shot it with full length aluminum 2016 tributes & 125g points.


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## 240m3srt (May 6, 2013)

Im fairly new on the "journey" as well. But ill tell ya, you can sure make the Samick one sexy beast...now killin with it will have to wait just a few more months LOL. Btw, a good string is the first thing id do, followed by bow hush and hush puppies, ive received numerous compliments on how quiet my Sage is.


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## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

Stub: It sounds funny to say but " that is one sweet looking Sage" LOL.

That is pretty much the idea I am going for, I will look into the Kwikee Kwiver and the FF string. Guys I am by no means trying to "overbow" myself, I have done a lot of reading and its the one thing that keeps coming up. I have no issues or problems going for lite weight limbs and I am going to go return these 40' for the 35's. I want a set that I can use for target and to practice in my backyard and I think the 35's are the ticket. I can pull the 40 pound limbs pretty easily but there is still a hint of strain which I don't want at all. I will use the 35's for the next year or so and hopefully jump up to 45's when i'm ready to hunt. Thanks for all the advice and keep the SAGE posts coming...

PS: This is pretty much exactly what the guy at the shop was telling me to do. Maybe he does know what he's talking about, a little???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqYkDWj4zY0


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## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

Ok, here is a question for you guys. I just returned the 40 pound limbs which had "Sage Samick" written on the bottom limb and 62-40 also written on the bottom limb. The new 35 pound limbs I got only have "Sage" written on the bottom limb and 62-35 is on a white sticker on the back side of the limb. Has anybody noticed this difference in the limbs because the old 40 pound limbs seemed to fit snug in the riser pocket while the new 35 pound limbs seem to be maybe 1/8" thinner and have some play side-to-side in the pocket when unstrung. Once the bow is strung I don't notice this play but you can definitely see the space gap on either side of the limb to the aluminum pocket.


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## Dave V (Aug 13, 2008)

Any time you swap limbs you run the risk of a slight mismatch. As long as the bolts are tight I wouldn't worry about it. Thinking of it another way, that play gives you the ability to adjust the limbs for perfect lateral alignment, not possible with a tighter fit.


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## ptgarcia (Apr 3, 2014)

I have a Vista Sage, which is a rebranded Samick Sage, with 45 lb limbs and it is marked with a sticker like your 35 lb limbs. They are a snug fit to the riser, however.


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## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

Yeah it seems like my lower limb is a bit narrower than my upper limb. I try my upper limb in both pockets and it fits snug. I try my lower limb in both bockets and it moves side-to-side a bit.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

patrick2cents said:


> Grant,
> 
> For my own edification- are you including a slight cant of the bow in with the road to mediocrity? I've found it to help aiming significantly by getting the string out of my line of sight (though the rest of that advice did sound bad even to me and I'm certainly not beyond instruction)


There are some bow set ups which shoot much better vertically and in general a vertical bow is a more consistent position to replicate. However with some grip and hand positions a slight cant will produce better bone alignment.

More concerning for me is why you feel the need to get the string out of the sight picture.


Grant


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## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

I noticed the limbs with the sticker on them say "made in China" not sure if the older limbs with the writing were made in Korea, hmmmmm Quality control???


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## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Wood Bow said:


> Thank you very much for your replies, I just came back from my local shop again and had my draw length measured. I spoke with a knowledgeable traditional archer who has been working there for years. He saw me draw my bow and said im around 29.5" draw length but told me that my stance was all wrong for traditional archery (I was drawing like a compound). He showed me that when I open up my stance and lean forward into the bow and cant the bow a bit my draw length goes down to 28.5". He said traditional form is very different than shooting a compound or even Olympic bow. Soooo with my feet more open (pointing towards the target a little) and leaning forward into the bow I am drawing roughly 28.5" making my bow around a 42 pound bow.
> 
> I am by no means saying I am a strong man competition champion or anything like that im simply saying im 31 years old and in good athletic shape with no injuries. Hey the LAST thing I wanna do here is overbow myself I have read enough to know that. Im just asking that at the age of 31 years old and being 6'1" and 220 pounds with NO injuries should I be ok with learning on a 40 pound bow? I thought 40 pounds was a decent entry point. Thanks


Wood 

Do yourself a favor and go back and return the bow and call John Wert at Lancaster archery and tell him your needs 

He will beat their price and give you real advise 

The so called experienced traditional shooter is not giving you good advice 

It really bothers me to see people walk into a shop and some idiot start you out in the wrong direction 

John will set you up with a bow that draws smoothly to your draw length and comes with arrows that will be in the ball park 

We are not just idiots on the Internet picking on some poor shop hand 

He is giving you bad advise


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## ptgarcia (Apr 3, 2014)

Wood Bow said:


> I noticed the limbs with the sticker on them say "made in China" not sure if the older limbs with the writing were made in Korea, hmmmmm Quality control???



I'm pretty sure the Sage is made in China. I read here on this forum that the higher end Samicks are made in Korea and their entry level bows are made in China.


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## starrider (Jan 27, 2014)

Regardless of where they're made they are an excellent bow for the money. Like Mr. Parnee said bad advice is never good, but even worse as a beginner. Hard to separate the bull----! There should not be any play in those limbs.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I would not recommend a Sage for anyone drawing further then 29", especially a beginner. The Journey is a much better option (same riser, longer limbs) and a set of 30# limbs will still be close to 40# at your draw length. If you can't comfortably hold the bow at full draw for 10 seconds then expand you are overbowed, period.
Not sure what your body shape is but it's very unusual for someone 6'1" to be drawing much less than 29.5" and if you are wide in the shoulders or long in the limb that number could be past 30" easily.

Bad advice is worse than no advice and the best Trad shooters will consistently recommend getting into good alignment at the very minimum.

-Grant


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## patrick2cents (Jan 26, 2014)

grantmac said:


> There are some bow set ups which shoot much better vertically and in general a vertical bow is a more consistent position to replicate. However with some grip and hand positions a slight cant will produce better bone alignment.
> 
> More concerning for me is why you feel the need to get the string out of the sight picture.
> 
> ...


I said that poorly... I have limited range of motion in my neck so I can't get the bow vertical and in alignment with my eye without doing a goofy short draw (and then I get worse contact with my bow side pec). A slight cant allows everything to fit naturally with the best form given my limitations.


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## Wood Bow (Jul 10, 2014)

So with the bolts on my Sage tightened right down I notice the bottom limb moves side to side in the pocket, the top lim is a more snug fit and doesn't move. This is with the bow unstrung, when I string the bow there is tension and I cant wiggle it anymore. I went back and showed the sales guy and we tried another set and they did the same thing. Is this ok?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

patrick2cents said:


> I said that poorly... I have limited range of motion in my neck so I can't get the bow vertical and in alignment with my eye without doing a goofy short draw (and then I get worse contact with my bow side pec). A slight cant allows everything to fit naturally with the best form given my limitations.


That is one of those things I'd have to see in person to really comment on. I work with an older guy who has to make some pretty extreme form adjustments, but he maintains a vertical bow.



Wood Bow said:


> So with the bolts on my Sage tightened right down I notice the bottom limb moves side to side in the pocket, the top lim is a more snug fit and doesn't move. This is with the bow unstrung, when I string the bow there is tension and I cant wiggle it anymore. I went back and showed the sales guy and we tried another set and they did the same thing. Is this ok?


Try a little sticky velcro in the pocket sides to keep things lined-up and also take a look down the limbs when strung to make sure nothing is twisted.

-Grant


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## 240m3srt (May 6, 2013)

I have owned 6 Samick Sages and retuned 4 of them. The Samick Sage is actually produced by 2 companies, Samick and Win & Win. I cannot remember which one it is, but one of them makes the limb tips slightly pointed and the other makes them rounded. Stay away from the pointed ones, many of the limbs are warped right out of the box. I have actually brought this up to many of the local bow shops and they had no idea. But now you do Also, some of them have skinnier handles than others, the skinner handle version fits my hand better, but that's the one that split on me


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## 240m3srt (May 6, 2013)

Wood Bow said:


> So with the bolts on my Sage tightened right down I notice the bottom limb moves side to side in the pocket, the top lim is a more snug fit and doesn't move. This is with the bow unstrung, when I string the bow there is tension and I cant wiggle it anymore. I went back and showed the sales guy and we tried another set and they did the same thing. Is this ok?


This is normal, due to the reason stated above regarding two different factories making them nothing is 100% perfect on a $150 bow. Also before you put on your limbs tighten down the two Phillips heads holding down the limb pockets.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

The only thing I put on my sage was an old bear BlackBear riser


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## 240m3srt (May 6, 2013)

Attack said:


> The only thing I put on my sage was an old bear BlackBear riser


Nice! How does it shoot? How does it differ from the stock riser? Im sure the OP would like to know too.


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## Attack (Oct 25, 2011)

Here is the thread I did on the build. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2172635


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