# The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide



## Huntinsker

3: Take the tag ends on one end and cross them on the post and put the through the center of the string bundles.














4: Pull the tag ends back towards you until the reach the outer most part of the jig post. Repeat this step, pulling the material tightly each time until you have “served” enough to make a loop.








5: Back serve the left side tag end, as if you were looking from the end of the jig toward the middle of the string, 4-5 wraps and cut off the excess tag end close to the string. (If you are standing perpendicular to the jig and the post is on your right, the tag end closest to you would be what you back serve first. This is important when we do the end serving on the string using my method.)


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## Huntinsker

6: Use the other tag end to wrap the bundle together and back serve 4-5 wraps. (Make sure if the jig post is on your left side, like in the picture, that you wrap over the bundles, away from you to finish with the second tag end. If the jig post is still on your right, you would wrap over the bundle toward you.)














7: Finish other end in the same way. *Note*: my tag ends are different colors because this is a 22 strand string (11 strands of each color). If you were building a 24 strand string (12 strands of each color) they would be the same color.

8: Insert golf tees between the bundles and halves of each color strand, to make an “X” with the tees. Wrap a spare piece of serving (I like to use .021 62xs) or scrap piece of string material around ½ of one color.








9: Pull tight and run up and down the string once to remove excess wax from the threads. Do this to each half of each color. This prevents the colors from bleeding into one another and also helps prevent serving separation. (This is a ball of wax from one time down that half bundle.)








10: Remove the golf tees and tension the string to 300lbs and let stretch for at least 20 minutes to let the strands equalize within the bundles. (I like 350lbs) (This is my “jig” to check what weight I’m at. The notch is 300lbs and the whole thing is 100lbs.)


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## Huntinsker

11: After stretching for 20 minutes, relax the tension and re-insert the golf tees in the same “X” position. At the post A, the one without the spring, use the handle to twist the string however many times your formula calls for. (If you were standing at the end of the post, looking toward the opposite end, rotate the handle counter clockwise.) Make sure you backed the weight off enough because as you twist, the poundage will increase. The golf tees will force the twists to start in the middle of the string and move outward so you get even twists throughout. (This pic is to show the handle rotated clockwise.)








12: Insert a scrap piece of string material in between the color bundles, through the space that the golf tees create, and run from one end to the other to neatly separate the strands.








13: Tension to at least 300lbs to stretch for a minimum of 30 minutes. (Again I like to go to 350lbs.) There really is no max time limit. I like to go at least an hour on my strings but cables are good to go in 30 minutes. This is because strings are longer so there is more material to stretch.

14: Immediately after tensioning, wrap your “de-waxing” serving or scrap piece of string material around the string and run that up and down the string 4-5 times. This is called burnishing and will make the string nice and round. It will also help to even out the strand tension and it removes a little more wax.

15: After a minimum of 30 minutes, remove the string from the jig and secure the ends to prevent it from untwisting. Let it sit and “relax” for 4 hours so it can shrink down from the stretching process. (During the 4 hour wait, you can build your cables and then take them off to let them relax, to speed things up.)

16: After the 4 hours, place the string back on the jig and measure at 100lbs. Measure from outside to outside of the jig posts. (This string is supposed to be 58 1/8” long.) Make adjustments as necessary to achieve the proper length.








17: Tension the string back up to 300lbs and serve the required areas of the string. You can put a piece of masking tape around the string to act as a “flag” that will show if you are serving too tightly. You don’t want the flag to rotate much more than ¼” rotation. If it rotates too much, it can cause peep twist in the finished string. (I don’t use the flag method because I’ve built string clamps that prevent twisting. This lets me serve at higher tensions to prevent serving separation.)

18: I like to serve towards the jig posts. You need to make sure you always serve in the right direction. If you follow this method and twist the string clockwise using the non-spring post, it will be easy to keep straight. If you are serving toward the post and the post is on your left, the serving tool will need to be going away from you when it goes over the top of the string. If the jig post is on your right, the serving tool would need to be coming towards you as it passes over the top of the string. It’s hard to explain in words but easy to understand once you start building. If you do not serve in the correct direction, the serving will actually remove twists from your string and cause severe peep rotation.

I also like to have my tag ends exposed near the end of the serving. That way I can pull them tight and melt a little ball with them ensuring that they can’t pull through and work loose. You can serve over the full length of your tag end but please pull them tight before you do. I hate when a factory serving comes loose because they didn’t bother to pull it tight.


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## Huntinsker

19: When you get close to the jig post and need to back serve, there is a trick for laying down the serving before pulling your tag end through. (This gives cleaner end serving than if you serve away from the post.) Use a short length of scrap serving (I use .014 Halo) and fold it in half. Wrap your serving over the scrap piece so that it forms a loop with the loop on the jig post side of the serving that you are laying over it.








Put the tag end or your serving through the loop.








Pull on the opposite end of your loop to pull the serving tag end under the wraps and out the other side.














Pull the tag ends nice and snug, cut and burn them to form a small ball of serving. (I push the ball flat before it cools too much.)

*String building summary*

1.	Set and measure you jig to the appropriate length. Measure from outside to outside of the jig posts.
2.	Tie off the first tag end, leaving 12-16 inches extra, and lay out your first bundle. Tie off the second tag end and then repeat with the second color. 
3.	Finish the end loops using the tag end method. Back serve the final tag end to finish the loop.
4.	Split the bundles both ways using the golf tees being careful to separate the bundles evenly. 
5.	Wrap scrap piece of serving or, string material, around half of the first color, then pull the looped serving up the bundle to remove excess wax. This helps the colors to not bleed into one another and also helps reduce serving separation. (If you’re doing this over carpet, lay something down to catch the dyed wax). Do this to each half of each color bundle.
6.	Tension the string to at least 300lbs. for 20 minutes to let the strands equalize within the bundles. (I stretch to 350lbs so when it stretches, the poundage does not go below 300lbs.)
7.	Relax the tension on the string and re-insert the golf tees forming the same “X” on each end. 
8.	Twist the string using the top loop post clockwise if you were looking from top loop to bottom loop.
9.	Insert a scrap piece of string material in between the color bundles and run from one end to the other to neatly separate the strands.
10.	Remove the golf tees and tension to 100lbs and measure. (You don’t need to have the string at the exact length at this point. Within 1/8” or two is fine. If you’re ½” off, you did something wrong and should check your formula and post settings.)
11.	Tension to at least 300lbs to stretch for a minimum of 30 minutes. (Again I like to go to 350lbs.)
12.	Right after tensioning, wrap your extra piece of serving around the string 2 times and run it up and down the string 4-5 times. This is called burnishing and will make the string nice and round. It will also help to even strand tension within the bundles.
13.	After your stretch period, relax the tension on the jig and remove the string for at least 4 hours so it can “relax” and shrink. Make sure to secure the end loops so it does not untwist on you. (I use a paper clip)
14.	After letting the string relax, put it back on the jig and tension to 100lbs to measure. If your string is not at your desired final length, twist or untwist it until it is. 
15.	With the string at the final length, tension back to 300lbs and serve the string being careful to not serve too tightly. (Flag method or String clamps)
16.	Remove string from jig and let it sit for at least 12 hours to “relax” to its final length. 
17.	Place back on jig and again measure at 100lbs. If it’s not at the desired final length, make adjustments and then remove and again secure the loops until the string is installed.


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## Huntinsker

*BUILDING A SPLIT-YOKE CABLE*
Making split yoke cables on this jig is very simple.
1. Lay out your first color just like you did for your string. 
2. Using both tag ends of that color, finish the loop using the tag ends.








3. Lay out your second color and again finish the end loop making sure you finish it on the same post as your first color.


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## Huntinsker

4. Using a 24-28” length of string material, finish the loop on the other end bringing both bundles together. (You now should have 3 finished loops.)

Run it up and down inside the bundle and jig post to the back of the post.








Loop the section coming out the bottom over the top and through the center.








Run the part that's coming from the top under and through the center.








Pull them tight until they meet each other at the back of the post. Do this over and over until you have "served" enough to make a loop.


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## Huntinsker

You can also do this and make it 2 colors by taking 1 24" piece of string material of each color and looping them together in the center like this. (This is how I made this one.)





















From here the process is basically the same as making a string until you get to serving the yoke loops.

5. Split with golf tees and de-wax just like on your string.
6. Stretch to 300lbs. (I like 350lbs.)
7. Relax, insert golf tees and twist like the string.
8. Remove golf tees and tension to 300lbs for at least 30 minutes. (Again I like 350lbs.)
9. Burnish the cable to make it nice and round.
10. Remove from the jig and let “relax”, with the loops secured, for at least 4 hours,
11. Place back on the jig and measure at 100lbs making adjustments at necessary. 
12. Tension to 300lbs and serve making sure to not cause the cable to twist while serving.

From here, steps 13-16 are optional though I do them every time.

13. Remove 1 loop from the yoke end and tension the other loop/bundle to 100lbs. (I don’t go above 100lbs because it can cause the bundle to shift under the serving.)
14. Serve the end to cover your back served string material. 
15. Remove that bundle and then serve the other.
16. Place both loops back on the post and tension to 300lbs for 5 minutes to equalize the bundles again.
17. Remove from the jig and let the cable “relax” for at least 12 hours.
18. Place back on the jig and measure at 100lbs making adjustments at necessary. 
19. Remove from jig and secure the loops until the cable will be installed.

You don't have to serve over the back served yoke loops because they are in a non-wear area. I've seen threads that are not served there and they look good and function well too. You may want to do a few more back serving wraps if you want to cut this part out.
This is the easiest way I have found to construct a split-yoke cable on our 2 post jig.


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## Huntinsker

These are supposed to be in post #3 after the back serving pic. Sorry!


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## automan26

WOW!!!!!! I am completely blown away with this thread you have put together here. This is the first time I have had a chance to see the jig you built and I can honestly say that it will build a string that is as good or better than anything on the market today. I really like the modifications (improvements) you made to my jig.Your explanation of the entire process, start to finish, is outstanding--I am jealous ;-). 

I am confident that anyone who wants to get into string building can look at this thread and start from a bare workbench and have their own custom built strings on their bow in 30 days. 

Awesome job. This thread should be a sticky.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Huntinsker said:


> These are supposed to be in post #3 after the back serving pic. Sorry!
> View attachment 1728749


My computer is going crazy! Here's the other pic that's supposed to be in post #3. I wish I could still edit them.


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> WOW!!!!!! I am completely blown away with this thread you have put together here. This is the first time I have had a chance to see the jig you built and I can honestly say that it will build a string that is as good or better than anything on the market today. I really like the modifications (improvements) you made to my jig.Your explanation of the entire process, start to finish, is outstanding--I am jealous ;-).
> 
> I am confident that anyone who wants to get into string building can look at this thread and start from a bare workbench and have their own custom built strings on their bow in 30 days.
> 
> Awesome job. This thread should be a sticky.
> 
> Automan


Thanks Automan! I really have to give most of the credit to you. If I hadn't seen your thread and you hadn't shared your knowledge and information with me, I wouldn't have been able to do this. All I did was take some pics while building a set and add some instructions. You came up with the basic design on your own which is much more impressive than taking some one else's idea and modifying it.


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## ilhunter997

Don't know if in gonna try it yet, but thanks for taking the time to show a very detailed explanation. Good job! Thanks


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## ilhunter997

Don't know if in gonna try it yet, but thanks for taking the time to show a very detailed explanation. Good job! Thanks


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## ilhunter997

Don't know if in gonna try it yet, but thanks for taking the time to show a very detailed explanation. Good job! Thanks


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## Methane Archery

One of quite a few ways to make strings for sure, so many different process' that can be done to achieve end result. you gonna do all the different ways that are typically used today?


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## milsy

Great post! Thanks a lot. If you put it in the arrows and strings section maybe we could get a sticky?

Thanks again
Milsy


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## madarchery

Fantastic, just fantastic. 

Not sure I need to know this as I don't go through many strings but its tempting to try just to say I can do it.

Very detailed, love it.


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## Robert43

well done I love it


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## Huntinsker

Methane Archery said:


> One of quite a few ways to make strings for sure, so many different process' that can be done to achieve end result. you gonna do all the different ways that are typically used today?


I hadn't planned on it. The 2 post jig somewhat limits how many ways you can build a string. I've been trying to think of a way to make an adapter to this jig to allow you to serve your end loops if you want but haven't had a lot of time to do it. I also haven't come up with a good enough adapter. All this was designed to do is to compile instructions to one of the easiest methods for the everyday guy that wants to learn how.


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## Steve Jo

Timely! I will be getting set up for this
Thanks for posting!


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## Robert43

Huntinsker said:


> I hadn't planned on it. The 2 post jig somewhat limits how many ways you can build a string. I've been trying to think of a way to make an adapter to this jig to allow you to serve your end loops if you want but haven't had a lot of time to do it. I also haven't come up with a good enough adapter. All this was designed to do is to compile instructions to one of the easiest methods for the everyday guy that wants to learn how.


What I do is I have a 2 post string jig simpler than yours . I tie the ends together (I only make 1 colour strings) in a square knot & mark the center of the string where it hits the post both ends with a white out pen. Slacken off the tension & move the strings along say 12" & install a Beiter / Bohning center serving jig ( the item like a big U ) & do the end serving , move the string back to there post & finish off the serving.
Hope you understand what I am saying. For a buss cable I do like Nuts & bolts do a small string & a large string same as a floating yoke & serve together to make a fixed yoke


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## Huntinsker

Robert43 said:


> What I do is I have a 2 post string jig simpler than yours . I tie the ends together (I only make 1 colour strings) in a square knot & mark the center of the string where it hits the post both ends with a white out pen. Slacken off the tension & move the strings along say 12" & install a Beiter / Bohning center serving jig ( the item like a big U ) & do the end serving , move the string back to there post & finish off the serving.
> Hope you understand what I am saying. For a buss cable I do like Nuts & bolts do a small string & a large string same as a floating yoke & serve together to make a fixed yoke


That's a great idea. I'm surprised I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the explanation. I also make Flemish twist recurve/longbow strings so now I have an easy way to make an endless loop with served loops for those as well.


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## Robert43

Hi yes I only do it for recurve with compound I do what you do & just wrap the end loops with the string material


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## redyak3

Great stuff! Thanks, I made my first set of threads recently using this jig and am hooked. A great addition to the "stickies".


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## Huntinsker

milsy said:


> Great post! Thanks a lot. If you put it in the arrows and strings section maybe we could get a sticky?
> 
> Thanks again
> Milsy


I thought about putting it in that forum but I don't want the pro builders on here to think that it was intended to take away their business. I hope they don't see it that way as many of them have helped me with my build process and I get my materials from one of them. They are a huge asset to our site and I always try to absorb whatever they post.


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## Huntinsker

If you guys are interested in starting to make your own threads and are wondering where to get material, I found that Deezlin or 60x have pretty good prices. They don't stock quite as much as Lancaster but I get all my BCY materials from 60x. They are always a few dollars cheaper than Lancaster and are good people to deal with. Here is a link to their 2013 price list.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2000395&p=1067063955#post1067063955


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## shinobi3

Mrkd


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## shinobi3

Thanks for the thread..... I'm wanting to make strings for my church camp.... It's all genesis bows..... I just hope I can build this jig.... Not the best when it comes to these type if projects..... Thanks again


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## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> Thanks Automan! I really have to give most of the credit to you. . You came up with the basic design on your own which is much more impressive than taking some one else's idea and modifying it.


ACTUALLY to be honest and fair, i think its more of a copy to the ever so popular Little Jon that Phil designed and made, he just never got it patented which i always wish he woulda been able to since its the most copied string jig out there.


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## oldschoolcj5

very well done! If i ever get brave enough to build strings I will reference this thread!


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## automan26

String making is really a lot easier than most people think. It is a great way to add a whole new level of enjoyment to this great sport. I love it when I have a new set of threads stretching out on my home-built jig and come on here and read threads asking where to buy good strings. ANYONE can become a competent string builder with a minimum of practice. I once had a nearly new set of threads on my bow and threw them away because I met a guy with a string color that I liked better than what I had, so I made a set of that color for myself. When you read of guys laying out over $100 for a set of threads, it doesn't take much math to figure out that building them yourself is the only way to go.

A friend once saw those threads and had me build three sets for his bows. He took one of those bows and won a state championship with my threads. With the money I made on those threads, I purchased some more material and now all my strings are a freebie. Actually, I save a lot of money on string wax because I don't really care that much about making my strings last all that long. In the fall I build a set for winter shooting and in the spring I build another set for summer shooting. 

One day at the range, like a moron, I dry fired my bow in front of a good friend and wrecked a string. An hour later I was back at the range shooting again with a brand new string on my bow. At least I didn't have to order a new string, wait a week for it to show up, and then find someone to install it for me.

I really believe that string building should be as much a part of the archery experience as being able to install your own sight and rest and tune your own equipment. It is soooo easy to learn and it is fun to brag to your friends that you built your own threads on a jig you built yourself.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> ACTUALLY to be honest and fair, i think its more of a copy to the ever so popular Little Jon that Phil designed and made, he just never got it patented which i always wish he woulda been able to since its the most copied string jig out there.


That's true I guess. Automan came up with the DIY, no weld, easy way to do what Phil did with the Little Jon jig. The Little Jon jig is a bit above this jigs league I would say haha.


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## Unk Bond

Hello All
Very nice. [ Later


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## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> String making is really a lot easier than most people think. I really believe that string building should be as much a part of the archery experience as being able to install your own sight and rest and tune your own equipment. It is soooo easy to learn and it is fun to brag to your friends that you built your own threads on a jig you built yourself.


easy to get started but it does take time to get it down pat though and become a good knowledgeable quality string maker. there is more to just laying out strands and serving. knowledge of what you can do on some bows and what you cant on others is a lerning curve. im not trying to detour people from starting but it is a little more complicated and no where "SOOOO easy to learn" as you stated.... 

i started after getting the run around from a guy on here back when and thats why i started making my own. tired of having to rely on someone else, and the fact that he just did whatever the heck he wanted for colors when i ordered something specific LOL


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## juspassinthru

Tag Tag Tag


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## NoDeerInIowa

Thanks for posting this. It's interesting and informative if nothing else. I might get the nerve to try it sometime.


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## automan26

dwagoner said:


> easy to get started but it does take time to get it down pat though and become a good knowledgeable quality string maker. there is more to just laying out strands and serving. knowledge of what you can do on some bows and what you cant on others is a lerning curve. im not trying to detour people from starting but it is a little more complicated and no where "SOOOO easy to learn" as you stated....
> 
> i started after getting the run around from a guy on here back when and thats why i started making my own. tired of having to rely on someone else, and the fact that he just did whatever the heck he wanted for colors when i ordered something specific LOL


Actually, from what I have personally witnessed over the past few years, when using the instructions above on a two-post jig, it is just that easy. I have had several guys email me for the plans and instructions to a similar jig, then a few weeks later they email me back and are absolutely thrilled at the progress they have made. A few of them were already building strings for themselves and for friends after only a few weeks using the jig. The real kicker is how much I have learned from these newbie builders. These guys write me and tell me that the instructions were great and easy to follow, but they then relate a modification they have come up with and I like what they are doing better than what I am doing.

I truly believe that the two-post method of string building is far superior and easier to learn than the four-post method. Using a two-poster the string is never disturbed on the jig until it is finished. The method of serving the end loops on a two-poster actually induces even tension in the bundles before twisting and stretching and this contributes to a higher quality end result. I currently have a Yellowstone Dream Machine that I will never use again, and would like to sell, but I can't bring myself to list it because the jigs I show guys how to build are cheaper than what I would need to get for the Dream Machine and they do a better job. (But if anyone wants my Dream Machine send me a PM and we will talk.)

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Actually, from what I have personally witnessed over the past few years, when using the instructions above on a two-post jig, it is just that easy. I have had several guys email me for the plans and instructions to a similar jig, then a few weeks later they email me back and are absolutely thrilled at the progress they have made. A few of them were already building strings for themselves and for friends after only a few weeks using the jig. The real kicker is how much I have learned from these newbie builders. These guys write me and tell me that the instructions were great and easy to follow, but they then relate a modification they have come up with and I like what they are doing better than what I am doing.
> 
> I truly believe that the two-post method of string building is far superior and easier to learn than the four-post method. Using a two-poster the string is never disturbed on the jig until it is finished. The method of serving the end loops on a two-poster actually induces even tension in the bundles before twisting and stretching and this contributes to a higher quality end result. I currently have a Yellowstone Dream Machine that I will never use again, and would like to sell, but I can't bring myself to list it because the jigs I show guys how to build are cheaper than what I would need to get for the Dream Machine and they do a better job. (But if anyone wants my Dream Machine send me a PM and we will talk.)
> 
> Automan


Couldn't agree more. I was one of those guys that emailed Automan for help after seeing his jig thread. I made mine in March and have made strings all summer. For all of my bows, most of my buddies and some people that needed something quick that I met at the range. Everyone has been very happy with the quality and worksmanship that I gave them. If you take your time and don't get sloppy it's not that hard. Being precise is key though. You need to measure consistently. You need to lay out your material with consistent tension. You need to serve consistently. There are a ton of variables that can mess a string up so you need to try and limit the amount of human error from the equation if possible. I guess it helps that I'm a little OCD and hate it when things aren't perfect lol.


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## aread

automan26 said:


> .....I really believe that string building should be as much a part of the archery experience as being able to install your own sight and rest and tune your own equipment. It is soooo easy to learn and it is fun to brag to your friends that you built your own threads on a jig you built yourself. Automan


I completely agree with this!

Great thread :thumbs_up

Should be a sticky soon. 

Another source of the 3/4" x 1/2" bar is onlinemetals.com 
Their material cost is reasonable, but unfortunately the shipping can be nearly as much as the steel.

My 2 post jig is a little different, but functions exactly the same as the one described here. I used to use a 4 post, but while building the 4 cables for my old Nitrous X, I realized that I could do it a lot faster and easier with just 2 posts. GRIV had shown me the tag end serving technique & I soon had a jig made from a short section of I beam cut in half to form two T's. Most don't have access to big I beams & your solution is just as good, maybe better since it's lighter.

Allen


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Couldn't agree more. I was one of those guys that emailed Automan for help after seeing his jig thread. I made mine in March and have made strings all summer. For all of my bows, most of my buddies and some people that needed something quick that I met at the range. Everyone has been very happy with the quality and worksmanship that I gave them. If you take your time and don't get sloppy it's not that hard. Being precise is key though. You need to measure consistently. You need to lay out your material with consistent tension. You need to serve consistently. There are a ton of variables that can mess a string up so you need to try and limit the amount of human error from the equation if possible. I guess it helps that I'm a little OCD and hate it when things aren't perfect lol.


I agree as well, with help and encouragement from Automan26, I couldn't be happier about learning this facet of archery.Still have a lot to learn, but a great way to start.


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## aread

Huntinsker said:


> ... I've been trying to think of a way to make an adapter to this jig to allow you to serve your end loops if you want but haven't had a lot of time to do it. I also haven't come up with a good enough adapter. All this was designed to do is to compile instructions to one of the easiest methods for the everyday guy that wants to learn how.


Just use one of the U shaped seperaters like this one:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bohning-self-serve-tool.html

You have to be a little careful about measuring the location of your serving, but it's really not that difficult.

Allen


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## Huntinsker

aread said:


> Just use one of the U shaped seperaters like this one:
> 
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bohning-self-serve-tool.html
> 
> You have to be a little careful about measuring the location of your serving, but it's really not that difficult.
> 
> Allen


Yep Robert43 let me in on that tip yesterday. I'm probably going to take some pics of me doing it and post them on here for people that like to serve the end loops. I just took an old string off of a bow the bow that I made these purple and silver threads for that I can use as a quick example.


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## Marvin

thank you fellas. very inspiring and appreciated.


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## Huntinsker

Marvin said:


> thank you fellas. very inspiring and appreciated.


You bet. Hope it helps.

Automan emailed me some info when I started making strings and included is a great Excel spread sheet that calculates the number of twists and jig post settings for any length you plug into it. If anyone is interested you can PM me with your email address and I will email it to you.


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## Big Easy

Thank you for this thread. I've been finding reasons to convince myself I shouldn't build my own strings, but now I guess I'll have to.


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## Marvin

Huntinsker said:


> You bet. Hope it helps.
> 
> Automan emailed me some info when I started making strings and included is a great Excel spread sheet that calculates the number of twists and jig post settings for any length you plug into it. If anyone is interested you can PM me with your email address and I will email it to you.


PM sent. Thanks again


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## Huntinsker

Update: I just read through post #4 about twisting the string. I said counter clockwise and then clockwise for the direction to move the handle. If you are using the method in this thread, move the handle Clockwise. What I meant to say in this post was this,

*"If you were standing at the "B" end post, looking toward the A end, the handle would rotate counter clockwise. If you are looking from post "A" toward post "B", the handle would go clockwise."*

The reason this is important has to do with how you wrap your tag end to finish the loop and how I serve toward the jig post instead of away. When I said it's important to wrap your string material tag end away from you (if the jig post is on your left) to finish the loop, that's because when you serve toward the post with the serving tool going over the top of the string away from you, the serving will actually tighten the wrapped tag end as it covers it. If you went the opposite direction with either one, the tag end back serve would loosen. So it all runs down hill in a sense. The tag end wrap has to go one way so it doesn't loosen when you serve your end serving. The string twist has to go a certain way so you can serve the correct way and that way just happens to tighten the tag end serving. Hopefully that makes sense. I tried to add arrows to the pictures but they didn't work very well and you couldn't tell which way they were going. I may just make some out of paper and have my wife hold them in the right direction while I take a picture.

Sorry if this caused any confusion.


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## Anynamewilldo

I know Im being dense but Im confused about serving. The written description I always hear in go the direction of the twist. So in my mind you stand on the end of the jig and twist clockwise, the twist look like they are going clockwise as it comes toward you. So if you start on left side of jig serving from right to left toward the loop if you were standing on the end the serving as it comes toward you should be coming clockwise. Same as string, but your doing the opposite. If your standing on the end it would appear it is traveling counter clock and toward you which is opposite of string.


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> I know Im being dense but Im confused about serving. The written description I always hear in go the direction of the twist. So in my mind you stand on the end of the jig and twist clockwise, the twist look like they are going clockwise as it comes toward you. So if you start on left side of jig serving from right to left toward the loop if you were standing on the end the serving as it comes toward you should be coming clockwise. Same as string, but your doing the opposite. If your standing on the end it would appear it is traveling counter clock and toward you which is opposite of string.


I think I know what you're saying and I can tell you that I thought that too. The second string I built for my backup bow, I did clear serving, white .014 halo, and didn't go the correct way on the bottom end serving on the string. Everything looked great and measured out to length. Then I installed the string and went to shoot it in. While shooting, you could actually see the string untwisting under the serving that went the wrong way. It was unreal to see it happen but it was because I served the wrong way. 

In my description I said that I keep the top of the string on my left. When you twist your string in the way that I twist, you can serve any section of string the same way. Meaning that if you are doing the top end serving, going toward the post with the post on your left, you would wrap the serving over the string away from you. Any length of the string can be served that way as long as you are going right to left and wrapping away from you. Now because I like to serve toward the post, when I do the bottom end serving, I need to either walk around the other side of my jig (which I do often) or wrap the other direction. If I'm going from left to right and the post is on my right, I have to wrap over the string, toward me. It would be the exact same as being on the other side of the jig wrapping away from me. 

I've learned the hard way and luckily it was with clear serving so I could literally see what happens when you go the wrong way. I hope this makes sense.


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## kc hay seed

aread said:


> Just use one of the U shaped seperaters like this one:
> 
> http://www.lancasterarchery.com/bohning-self-serve-tool.html
> 
> You have to be a little careful about measuring the location of your serving, but it's really not that difficult.
> 
> Allen


i made mine by useing 2-6" pieces of cxl used shafts 4- inserts and 4- nocks.they work really well.


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## Huntinsker

kc hay seed said:


> i made mine by useing 2-6" pieces of cxl used shafts 4- inserts and 4- nocks.they work really well.


That's a great idea! Thanks for that.


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## Anynamewilldo

I understand how your saying to do it. The way is the same as I see in your pic,and is the way it looked in the video the guy that makes the spinner had but I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when I watched the vid cause Im colorblind and have a hard time seeing the colors in the vid.
I was confused cause I thought in other post I read people saying serve with the twist of the string. If I had a little mini car riding one strand right to left it would be going over the string toward me. I thought the serving was supposed to do the same. Im trying to clarify cause Im trying to make my first set of strings this week and looks like all serving was going to be backwards.


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> I understand how your saying to do it. The way is the same as I see in your pic,and is the way it looked in the video the guy that makes the spinner had but I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when I watched the vid cause Im colorblind and have a hard time seeing the colors in the vid.
> I was confused cause I thought in other post I read people saying serve with the twist of the string. If I had a little mini car riding one strand right to left it would be going over the string toward me. I thought the serving was supposed to do the same. Im trying to clarify cause Im trying to make my first set of strings this week and looks like all serving was going to be backwards.


Yeah I hear ya. I heard that "serve with the twists" too. It was confusing at first but if you start serving and the twist gets looser in front of your serving jig, stop and go the other way.


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## Anynamewilldo

K. Ty


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## unklechuckles19

Tagged for later reading. I've been waiting for one of these to come along, thanks guys!


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## aread

kc hay seed said:


> i made mine by useing 2-6" pieces of cxl used shafts 4- inserts and 4- nocks.they work really well.


I tried that too, but they wouldn't stay where I needed them. How do you keep them in place?


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## Kaizoku

dwagoner said:


> ACTUALLY to be honest and fair, i think its more of a copy to the ever so popular Little Jon that Phil designed and made, he just never got it patented which i always wish he woulda been able to since its the most copied string jig out there.


I have seen you make this comment a couple times in various threads. 

Even if Phil had gotten his design patented it cannot be enforced upon people building their own for personal use. Obviously it would be a different story if they were then selling the ones they produced to the public for profit. This would leave Phil to bring about patent infringement cases in the court system against said individuals. Which would take both time and money to do so. Of course once he won he would get that monetary value back but it could be dragged out in court. You cannot get time back.

That being said, He would only win the cases where the jigs being sold were exact *photocopies* of his design. Not many people are building their jigs to the extent that he builds his Little Jon jigs.

If he truly wanted to Phil could still get it patented. It would just be a hassle. Enforcing it would be as well. That's my .02 cents on the matter.


I'm not taking anything away from Phil's efforts and design. It was obviously a good one or it wouldn't be emulated. He definitely knows his stuff. I bought his string building DVD. It is informative and worth the money. I have bought BCY materials from him as well. However $1200 for his string jig is a little out of my price range for an endeavor I might not like or be good at.

This thread and automan's el-cheapo deluxe jig is an inexpensive way for those wanting to try their hands at string building.


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## Huntinsker

So if anyone is building or has built a jig using our thread, post a pic of it. I'd love to see what you guys have done. Post pics of some strings too!


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## 05_sprcrw

I think I found my next project. Thanks for taking the time to do all this and I am book marking for future reference. I need to finish up my bow press first but once that is done I will be setting my sights on this.


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## firstshoot

tag for reference, great post


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## automan26

At this exact second in time I have a new string on my jig and a set of cables nearly finished. Tomorrow I plan to teardown my 82nd Airborne and give it a total rebuild with brand new threads and the best part is that when finished it will not have cost me a dime. Since this is just my backup bow I decided to use materials I had laying around which I never planned to use anymore.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Just got done installing a set of threads on a buddies z7 xtreme that he was having a ton of peep rotation problems from the zebra strings. The grin on his face was one of the biggest I've seen when he drew back and his peep was straight the whole way back. He was almost as happy about it as I was. 

Here's a mock up of a string that I'm going to build for a guy I work with. He has a Bear Motive 6 that he dipped black with carbon weave on the limbs and cams. He wanted blue and black but I told him that the blue/black combo looks good close up but from a short distance it's hard to tell that it's not just black. I showed him this and he loved it. I'll post some pics of how I lay it out and twist it so you guys can make some like this too.


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## Raymond 1

That is a really nice looking string. That will be much appreciated to have you show how to make that string, it is beautiful. I want to start making some strings now also.
Thanks,
Raymond


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## redyak3

Can't say enough about how automan26's jig and help has enhanced my archery enjoyment. I finished my first set of threads recently and still amazed that I actually did it. Zero peep rotation, quiet and with a lot of zip. Still got a lot to learn for sure... Nice 3 color twist Huntinsker, can't wait to see the how-to lay up :teeth:


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## Wapiti06

Mark


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## automan26

It thrills me beyond description when I see guys cranking out awesome threads using this simple little jig. There is no feeling in the world that matches the satisfaction of drilling an X with a set of threads that you made yourself at home. You feel like you want to bust right open when someone comes up and complements your strings and then asks where you bought them. I hope to see the day when building strings is as common as fletching arrows. Several guys have replied back to me that they made a killer string on their first attempt and are now building threads for everyone around and these were guys who, just a few weeks before, didn't know the first thing about building strings.

If you are still sitting on the fence, wondering if string building is for you, here is a great chance to jump right in with a small investment.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Can't say enough about how automan26's jig and help has enhanced my archery enjoyment. I finished my first set of threads recently and still amazed that I actually did it. Zero peep rotation, quiet and with a lot of zip. Still got a lot to learn for sure... Nice 3 color twist Huntinsker, can't wait to see the how-to lay up :teeth:
> View attachment 1740008


Thanks! I like that color combo. What colors are those?


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Thanks! I like that color combo. What colors are those?


Thanks, Black Cherry and Yellow, 452X


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## automan26

Well, I installed the new threads that I just built on my 82nd backup bow. I took the bow off the press, drew it back a few times then checked the specs and found everything was spot-on. Brace height, ATA, draw length, draw weight--everything was right where I wanted it to be except for 2 twists out of the bottom cable. Now all I have to do is scrounge up a sight and rest and I can go shoot it. As I mentioned earlier, I built the string using some leftover materials (ugly green Ultracam) and I remember now why I stopped using it. Ultracam is stiff and harder to work with than 452X, and even before I have had a chance to shoot one arrow, it is already starting to fuzz-up. Maybe I will find this an excuse to build another set from 452X.

Automan


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## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> Actually, from what I have personally witnessed over the past few years, when using the instructions above on a two-post jig, it is just that easy. I have had several guys email me for the plans and instructions to a similar jig, then a few weeks later they email me back and are absolutely thrilled at the progress they have made. A few of them were already building strings for themselves and for friends after only a few weeks using the jig. The real kicker is how much I have learned from these newbie builders. These guys write me and tell me that the instructions were great and easy to follow, but they then relate a modification they have come up with and I like what they are doing better than what I am doing.
> 
> I truly believe that the two-post method of string building is far superior and easier to learn than the four-post method. Using a two-poster the string is never disturbed on the jig until it is finished. The method of serving the end loops on a two-poster actually induces even tension in the bundles before twisting and stretching and this contributes to a higher quality end result. I currently have a Yellowstone Dream Machine that I will never use again, and would like to sell, but I can't bring myself to list it because the jigs I show guys how to build are cheaper than what I would need to get for the Dream Machine and they do a better job. (But if anyone wants my Dream Machine send me a PM and we will talk.)
> 
> Automan


in a 2 post design the string material is in the hands of the builder so yes it can very well be affected in end result, hes the one wrapping it up still, and hes the one wrapping the end loops, its not really that different to a 4 post in layup so theres no quality advantage to using a 2 post setup. If the person isnt careful enough when starting tag ends then you most certainly will have some strands that are uneven, so you have to be just as careful and spend some time building to get this part of the process down to where you do it consistently and properly. all this is something that you get a feel for and learn how to do properly with enough sets built, amongst several other things needed to make a superior quality string. 

you may just have a laid back approach to string building and thus why you state is is so easy to do like anyone can start and be building top notch quality strings in the very first few sets but honestly if it were purely that 'easy' then everyone would be doing it, and in actuality its something that very few percentage of archery even attempt. thats why when new people start there always coming back for help and such. 

To each his own though......and opinions are just that, but to say string building is 'SOOOO EASY' is just your opinion, its takes time to aquire knowledge in anything you do, its not something thats automatically there when you start. people have to put in the effort and pay attention to details, thats what seperates just a string from a quality string that actually does last..... 

ive been doing this for some years now and i still to date have issues every now and then, i have to find out whats going on and where did it occur, most the time start over and scrap what im working on at the time and hang it on the wall of shame for tester strings when doing a conversion or something else. it happens to everyone.... 

OH and i use a yellowstone for layup and i can tell you my strings are far from lower quality vs a string built on one of yours or another jig too, it works just fine. thats just another opinion....... no factual proof at all to say that about the yellowstone jig and that your homemade does a better job......


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## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> in a 2 post design the string material is in the hands of the builder so yes it can very well be affected in end result, hes the one wrapping it up still, and hes the one wrapping the end loops, its not really that different to a 4 post in layup so theres no quality advantage to using a 2 post setup. If the person isnt careful enough when starting tag ends then you most certainly will have some strands that are uneven, so you have to be just as careful and spend some time building to get this part of the process down to where you do it consistently and properly. all this is something that you get a feel for and learn how to do properly with enough sets built, amongst several other things needed to make a superior quality string.
> 
> you may just have a laid back approach to string building and thus why you state is is so easy to do like anyone can start and be building top notch quality strings in the very first few sets but honestly if it were purely that 'easy' then everyone would be doing it, and in actuality its something that very few percentage of archery even attempt. thats why when new people start there always coming back for help and such.
> 
> To each his own though......and opinions are just that, but to say string building is 'SOOOO EASY' is just your opinion, its takes time to aquire knowledge in anything you do, its not something thats automatically there when you start. people have to put in the effort and pay attention to details, thats what seperates just a string from a quality string that actually does last.....
> 
> ive been doing this for some years now and i still to date have issues every now and then, i have to find out whats going on and where did it occur, most the time start over and scrap what im working on at the time and hang it on the wall of shame for tester strings when doing a conversion or something else. it happens to everyone....
> 
> OH and i use a yellowstone for layup and i can tell you my strings are far from lower quality vs a string built on one of yours or another jig too, it works just fine. thats just another opinion....... no factual proof at all to say that about the yellowstone jig and that your homemade does a better job......


I know what you're saying and it's not as easy as build a jig, buy some material and you're a master string builder. There is a learning curve but the curve is not very long. If you can serve, you can build a string. It's not a complicated process and if you pay attention to keeping things consistent, then it doesn't take long to make top notch strings. Consistency is key to a good string. It doesn't take long to figure out if you've laid the bundles out differently or how tight to wrap your tag ends. Those are the "feel" parts of it and they really aren't that hard to get the hang of. 

Hopefully with this thread we have taken some of the learning curve and shortened it. If you follow the steps, a lot of the trial and error has been done for you.


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## K.G.K.

tag


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## aread

It is easy to build a safe & useable bow string. 

However, to build one with no peep rotation and really nice looking serving, there is a longer learning curve. 

You should be able to make a string for your own use on the first or second try. Making them of a quality to sell to others takes a lot more practice on a lot of different bows and a lot more knowledge that you can get even from AT. 

JMHO,
Allen


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## K.G.K.

aread said:


> It is easy to build a safe & useable bow string.
> 
> However, to build one with no peep rotation and really nice looking serving, there is a longer learning curve.
> 
> You should be able to make a string for your own use on the first or second try. Making them of a quality to sell to others takes a lot more practice on a lot of different bows and a lot more knowledge that you can get even from AT.
> 
> JMHO,
> Allen


I built a version of this string jig with modifications. I have built 25-30 sets of strings and cables now that doesn't include short practice lengths.

Everytime I build they get better. My sets have no creep and the serving look as good as any set I've seen...but I agree there is a learning curve. I wouldn't get too hung up on numbers though. Just jump in and go for it. The process of learning and practicing is the joy. If you like it ask questions and keep learning through practice. I replaced my Insanity sets three time in 2 weeks because they kept getting better and I waneed to try different things. 

And I really enjoy building custom string sets and tuning friends bows. Thats the beauty of learning this skill set. Enjoy!!!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> 11: After stretching for 20 minutes, relax the tension and re-insert the golf tees in the same “X” position. At the post A, the one without the spring, use the handle to twist the string however many times your formula calls for. (If you were standing at the end of the post, looking toward the opposite end, rotate the handle counter clockwise.) Make sure you backed the weight off enough because as you twist, the poundage will increase. The golf tees will force the twists to start in the middle of the string and move outward so you get even twists throughout. (This pic is to show the handle rotated clockwise.)
> View attachment 1728668
> 
> 
> 12: Insert a scrap piece of string material in between the color bundles, through the space that the golf tees create, and run from one end to the other to neatly separate the strands.
> View attachment 1728670
> 
> 
> 13: Tension to at least 300lbs to stretch for a minimum of 30 minutes. (Again I like to go to 350lbs.) There really is no max time limit. I like to go at least an hour on my strings but cables are good to go in 30 minutes. This is because strings are longer so there is more material to stretch.
> 
> 14: Immediately after tensioning, wrap your “de-waxing” serving or scrap piece of string material around the string and run that up and down the string 4-5 times. This is called burnishing and will make the string nice and round. It will also help to even out the strand tension and it removes a little more wax.
> 
> 15: After a minimum of 30 minutes, remove the string from the jig and secure the ends to prevent it from untwisting. Let it sit and “relax” for 4 hours so it can shrink down from the stretching process. (During the 4 hour wait, you can build your cables and then take them off to let them relax, to speed things up.)
> 
> 16: After the 4 hours, place the string back on the jig and measure at 100lbs. Measure from outside to outside of the jig posts. (This string is supposed to be 58 1/8” long.) Make adjustments as necessary to achieve the proper length.
> View attachment 1728672
> 
> 
> 17: Tension the string back up to 300lbs and serve the required areas of the string. You can put a piece of masking tape around the string to act as a “flag” that will show if you are serving too tightly. You don’t want the flag to rotate much more than ¼” rotation. If it rotates too much, it can cause peep twist in the finished string. (I don’t use the flag method because I’ve built string clamps that prevent twisting. This lets me serve at higher tensions to prevent serving separation.)
> 
> 18: I like to serve towards the jig posts. You need to make sure you always serve in the right direction. If you follow this method and twist the string clockwise using the non-spring post, it will be easy to keep straight. If you are serving toward the post and the post is on your left, the serving tool will need to be going away from you when it goes over the top of the string. If the jig post is on your right, the serving tool would need to be coming towards you as it passes over the top of the string. It’s hard to explain in words but easy to understand once you start building. If you do not serve in the correct direction, the serving will actually remove twists from your string and cause severe peep rotation.
> 
> I also like to have my tag ends exposed near the end of the serving. That way I can pull them tight and melt a little ball with them ensuring that they can’t pull through and work loose. You can serve over the full length of your tag end but please pull them tight before you do. I hate when a factory serving comes loose because they didn’t bother to pull it tight.
> View attachment 1728675


Im confused on the serving direction in your narrative ... if you twist the un-sprung post clockwise (if standing at the handled end looking toward the other post), dont you also serve the string clockwise no matter where your at on the string assuming your still looking down the string from the unsprung post looking toward the other post?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


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## aread

K.G.K. said:


> ... I replaced my Insanity sets three time in 2 weeks because they kept getting better and I wanted to try different things.....


This guy is going to be a top string builder in very short order!!  :thumbs_up


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Im confused on the serving direction in your narrative ... if you twist the un-sprung post clockwise (if standing at the handled end looking toward the other post), dont you also serve the string clockwise no matter where your at on the string assuming your still looking down the string from the unsprung post looking toward the other post?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


You would serve that direction if you were going toward the sprung end of the jig. If you look at your string from either top to bottom loop or bottom to top loop and imagined yourself in a very small car driving your string like a road, your car would follow the twist going around the string to the left. With everyone saying to serve with the direction of the twists it may make you think that you would serve going to the left in the same way as the color twists go. What they are really saying is that you need to serve in the direction that you need to twist the string to make it look like that. 

Easy thing to do is to take 2 pieces of string material and tie them to one of your jig posts and hold the loose ends in your hands. Twist them together twisting clockwise. This would be just like my narrative and how you said "twist the un-sprung post clockwise (if standing at the handled end looking toward the other post)". So now that the strands are twisted clockwise, notice how the twists look in the "string" you just twisted together. They look like they are going in the opposite direction that the twists were put in. Now if you tie off the loose ends and look at them from the other direction, they will still look like the twist is going to the left or counter clockwise even though they were twisted clockwise. 

So when one says serve with the twist, it means that you serve with the direction the twists were put in and not the direction the visual twist goes. Since I serve toward the post to do my end serving, I serve clockwise toward the post because that means I'm serving with the way the twist was put into the string. 

Another way to think of it is if your still looking from the un-sprung end to the sprung end of my jig, twisting the un-sprung end clockwise would do the same thing as twisting the sprung end counterclockwise from that perspective. 

I hope I didn't make this more confusing. I have a few days out of town and then I'm making that blue/black/silver string for a guy at work so I'll try to take a video of this for a better visualization.


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## bucks/bulls

Put an analog clock at the post end of your jig..when you twist and serve just look at the clock..twist and serve in the same direction as 1-12..not 12-1..easiest way I can think to explain it..it does not matter if your serving right to left or left to right(from loop toward center or towards loop) as long as you spin the server clockwise..

Sent from my LGL75C using Tapatalk 2


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## Anynamewilldo

They are all saying the same thing for some reason it all clicked with post 6 for me. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2074199
I had the same confusion as you KGK. Totally forget the way the strands run which is whats confusing you. Stand at the end of jig with your string twisted clockwise. Now imagine reaching out 1' and grabing the string and trying to put more twist on the string between your hand and you which is the direction your going if you serve toward the loop. You would twist counterclockwise to put more twist in that 1' area. Hope this helps.

Since your starting serving in middle of string in essence its the same as if you started from the other end. If you started serving from other loop toward you you would be serving counterclockwise but would look clockwise if you went to other end of jig.


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## Huntinsker

Here's a Husker set that I did for my best friend and best man for his birthday. Came out pretty good. Did red with white/black spec and clear .014 halo serving, red/black 62xs center serving.


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## K.G.K.

Thanks for the clarification on the twisting...I got it. As long as the string is twisting tighter in front of the direction your serving and essentially loosening behind the serving jig then its right. No problem. I was doing it right all along...but nice to clarify. Thanks again. 

Now, on this two post jig (of which I built the same one), I'm curious how you do your "y" section on the cable construction. 

- When you have all three ends served with tag ends, and stretched, now you put twists in it to then stretch at 300+lbs, 

then relax it for 4+ hours and then measure at 100lbs to achieve final length....(here's the big question),

- To form or I guess separate the"y" legs from the string do you serve, say at 6" from the "y" end to separate the "y" and then untwist the string to separate the legs and then add individual twists to each leg, 

or do you place something in the string at 6" to keep the the last 6" from actually twisting until it is served at the"y" to separate the "Y" legs? Sorry if that is confusing?

Thanks for any comments.


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## bucks/bulls

Layout the 1st 6 wraps and tie off,then close your y loop or just tag serve with out closing,finish your layout and tag serve ane close end loop,then 2nd y loop same as 1st..pull top loop tension to 150lbs and serve yoke leg,then 2nd loop..stretch and twist as normal..serve your split y serving,then your end,relax and pull off one yoke loop and untwist from bundle,then add your twists to that leg,then swap loops and repeat.if your twist rate was done right you shouldn't need to add any more than 2-3 twists to the cable if even that..hope this makes sense?

Sent from my LGL75C using Tapatalk 2


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## K.G.K.

bucks/bulls said:


> Layout the 1st 6 wraps and tie off,then close your y loop or just tag serve with out closing,finish your layout and tag serve ane close end loop,then 2nd y loop same as 1st..pull top loop tension to 150lbs and serve yoke leg,then 2nd loop..stretch and twist as normal..serve your split y serving,then your end,relax and pull off one yoke loop and untwist from bundle,then add your twists to that leg,then swap loops and repeat.if your twist rate was done right you shouldn't need to add any more than 2-3 twists to the cable if even that..hope this makes sense?Sent from my LGL75C using Tapatalk 2


Thanks...a little confused. 

Wrap 6 strands and serve what will be one leg of the yoke with tag ends. 

Wrap next six and serve what will be the second Y leg with tag ends. 

Serve all strands at the other end so now there are three loops... Two on one peg and one on the other. 

What do you do after that? Did you say to stretch and then at 150lbs tension serve the split Y before twisting the bundle, or, twist the bundle and stretch to length and then serve the split?

I think I understood that ultimately the split Y is served and then the loops are taken off of the peg one at a time by untwisting them and finish served and then alternate. Do you regain the proper length by twisting the yoke legs at that point? 

This conversation between us could get really confusing...ha. 

Anyone else want to chime in with there sequence?

Thanks,


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## IDABOW

Great thread!


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## retrieverfishin

K.G.K. said:


> Thanks...a little confused.
> 
> Wrap 6 strands and serve what will be one leg of the yoke with tag ends.
> 
> Wrap next six and serve what will be the second Y leg with tag ends.
> 
> Serve all strands at the other end so now there are three loops... Two on one peg and one on the other.
> 
> What do you do after that? Did you say to stretch and then at 150lbs tension serve the split Y before twisting the bundle, or, twist the bundle and stretch to length and then serve the split?
> 
> I think I understood that ultimately the split Y is served and then the loops are taken off of the peg one at a time by untwisting them and finish served and then alternate. Do you regain the proper length by twisting the yoke legs at that point?
> 
> This conversation between us could get really confusing...ha.
> 
> Anyone else want to chime in with there sequence?
> 
> Thanks,


Here is mine on a Y cable:

Wrap 6 and tie off one end with a false tag

Wrap other 6 and tie off that end with another false tag

Wrap other end with the 4 tag ends

Stretch for 1-3 hours

Burnish each color independently

Twist to length

Stretch for 10 min

Serve the base of the Y cable 1.5"

Serve the end serving

Relieve tension and take one leg of the Y off, untwist, and serve that leg

Repeat for second leg

Stretch the whole deal for 10 min.

On a side note, I make my buss cables 1/8" shorter than normal as the untwisting of the Y lengthens a bit. Just what works for me.


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## UpstateSC85

Tag


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## mwwood77

I guess I'll have to get back into string making. I used to make my own Flemish bowstrings on a four post jig for the longbows I used make. I loved being able to adjust the jig to serve the end loops.


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Thanks for the clarification on the twisting...I got it. As long as the string is twisting tighter in front of the direction your serving and essentially loosening behind the serving jig then its right. No problem. I was doing it right all along...but nice to clarify. Thanks again.
> 
> Now, on this two post jig (of which I built the same one), I'm curious how you do your "y" section on the cable construction.
> 
> - When you have all three ends served with tag ends, and stretched, now you put twists in it to then stretch at 300+lbs,
> 
> then relax it for 4+ hours and then measure at 100lbs to achieve final length....(here's the big question),
> 
> - To form or I guess separate the"y" legs from the string do you serve, say at 6" from the "y" end to separate the "y" and then untwist the string to separate the legs and then add individual twists to each leg,
> 
> or do you place something in the string at 6" to keep the the last 6" from actually twisting until it is served at the"y" to separate the "Y" legs? Sorry if that is confusing?
> 
> Thanks for any comments.


This is what I do for my split buss cables.

1. I serve the bottom section of the cable and then serve 2" just below where the "y" splits. 

2. Then I relax the tension to 100lbs and measure what it's at. I don't really care what the length is I just need to know for the next step.

3. Clamp the 2" serving in my string clamp, so the cable doesn't untwist, and take the yoke legs off the post. Untwist them to where they are no longer twisted around one another. 

4. Add equal number of twists to each individual yoke legs and re-measure at 100lbs until you get the same measurement that you did while they were still twisted around one another.

5. Reduce tension and take one leg off and secure from untwisting. 

6. Tension the single leg to 100lbs and serve like I showed then do that to the same to the other side.

7. Put both back on the post and tension to 300lbs to even the bundles.

8. Reduce tension, take the loops off the posts and secure to prevent untwisting for at least 12 hours. 

9. Re-measure and add twists to the bottom side as needed before installing.


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## Anynamewilldo

Started my first set tonight. Started with the cables. Used bowbenders spreadsheet and came out right on the money. Am pretty happy with it so far on my first cable. Only thing left is to serve it. Only thing I didnt like is tag end serving looked great when I did it but got alittle seperation when cranked to 250#


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> Started my first set tonight. Started with the cables. Used bowbenders spreadsheet and came out right on the money. Am pretty happy with it so far on my first cable. Only thing left is to serve it. Only thing I didnt like is tag end serving looked great when I did it but got alittle seperation when cranked to 250#


The tighter you pull and the more you overlap your tag ends, the less separation you'll get. Make sure you leave them nice and long so you can wrap them really tight and not run out before you finish them. When you get your set done, you should post a pic!


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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> This is what I do for my split buss cables.
> 
> 1. I serve the bottom section of the cable and then serve 2" just below where the "y" splits.
> 
> 2. Then I relax the tension to 100lbs and measure what it's at. I don't really care what the length is I just need to know for the next step.
> 
> 3. Clamp the 2" serving in my string clamp, so the cable doesn't untwist, and take the yoke legs off the post. Untwist them to where they are no longer twisted around one another.
> 
> 4. Add equal number of twists to each individual yoke legs and re-measure at 100lbs until you get the same measurement that you did while they were still twisted around one another.
> 
> 5. Reduce tension and take one leg off and secure from untwisting.
> 
> 6. Tension the single leg to 100lbs and serve like I showed then do that to the same to the other side.
> 
> 7. Put both back on the post and tension to 300lbs to even the bundles.
> 
> 8. Reduce tension, take the loops off the posts and secure to prevent untwisting for at least 12 hours.
> 
> 9. Re-measure and add twists to the bottom side as needed before installing.


I like the Idea of clamping the served string while changing the yoke legs for serving. Good Idea....what do you use as a string clamp? I have two pieces of engineer wood flooring cut into 1"x9" strips that are very smooth on one side. I stand both pieces in the track and then spring clamp the smooth side together, sandwiching string. Very home made but works great with no damage to the string. I'm sure there is an easy DIY jig that can be make. Haven't taken the time to design one. Would love some ideas.....


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> I like the Idea of clamping the served string while changing the yoke legs for serving. Good Idea....what do you use as a string clamp? I have two pieces of engineer wood flooring cut into 1"x9" strips that are very smooth on one side. I stand both pieces in the track and then spring clamp the smooth side together, sandwiching string. Very home made but works great with no damage to the string. I'm sure there is an easy DIY jig that can be make. Haven't taken the time to design one. Would love some ideas.....


That's funny you ask. I'm going to post my string clamp to this thread in about 5 minutes haha.


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## lazyhubby70

Tagged for later. Thanks guys

FEAR THE PACK


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## bucks/bulls

K.G.K. said:


> I like the Idea of clamping the served string while changing the yoke legs for serving. Good Idea....what do you use as a string clamp? I have two pieces of engineer wood flooring cut into 1"x9" strips that are very smooth on one side. I stand both pieces in the track and then spring clamp the smooth side together, sandwiching string. Very home made but works great with no damage to the string. I'm sure there is an easy DIY jig that can be make. Haven't taken the time to design one. Would love some ideas.....


Talk to hutch..he built a set of containment posts that prevent any unwanted twisting of strings..simple but very effective..

Sent from my LGL75C using Tapatalk 2


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## Livn-Lg

Tagged

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 4


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## Huntinsker

Here are my string clamps. Parts first.
A: 2- 1/4" wing nuts 
B: 2 - 1/4" washers 
C: 4 - 1/4" Fender washers 
D: 4 - 5/16" x 1 1/4" neoprene washers 
E: 2 - 8" x 1/4" all thread rod  
F: 6 - 1/4" coarse thread nuts to fit all thread rod 
G: 2 - 1/4" lock nuts 
H: 2 - 1/4" x 3/4" bolt 
I: 2 - 1/4" x 1 1/2" bolt
J: 4 - 1" corner braces
K: 2 - 3/8" super strut flat washers
L: 2 - 1/4" super strut spring nut to fit 1 5/8" super strut









The only thing you need to know for assembly is that I had to drill out the holes in the corner brackets with a 1/4" drill bit to fit the 1/4" all thread rod and bolts and I used pliers to take the spring off the super strut spring nuts.


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## Anynamewilldo

Well just finished the first cable and its relaxing. The serving looks great till I get to the tag end material and I guess I didn't pull it tight enough. The serving (3D) wanted to sink into the string material in the whip stitch area that finished the tag ends. Alittle lumpy and can slightly see string material through in 2 spots. That being said its defintly usable as its mostly cosmetic and I will keep that as a spare. Its going on a primal and they are hard on the cables at the slide. Will take pics and post in a day or two. Do I just need to pull the string tighter on the tag end as it finishes off around the string? Less seperation on the second loop than the first (only one gap) so improvement. The string really doesnt look bad but Im not going to be happy till it looks "professional"

Also know its only 36" but had a "flag" to check for rotation as I relaxed it and it didnt budge.


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## K.G.K.

Anynamewilldo said:


> Well just finished the first cable and its relaxing. The serving looks great till I get to the tag end material and I guess I didn't pull it tight enough. The serving (3D) wanted to sink into the string material in the whip stitch area that finished the tag ends. Alittle lumpy and can slightly see string material through in 2 spots. That being said its defintly usable as its mostly cosmetic and I will keep that as a spare. Its going on a primal and they are hard on the cables at the slide. Will take pics and post in a day or two. Do I just need to pull the string tighter on the tag end as it finishes off around the string? Less seperation on the second loop than the first (only one gap) so improvement. The string really doesnt look bad but Im not going to be happy till it looks "professional"
> 
> Also know its only 36" but had a "flag" to check for rotation as I relaxed it and it didnt budge.


I would suggest not whip stitching the tag ends after serving the loop. 

As shown to me by a popular string maker on AT, I use the tag end to serve the loops and then just weave the tag into the string strands a couple times. Under tension they will stay put and when you serve toward the loop over the tag ends they will finish much more consistent with no separation, and the tag end serving will never come lose.

There is a good video of this technique if I can find it...ill post it. Also a great thread about this also. Again, I will post a link when I find it too.

Anyone else do it this way?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


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## K.G.K.

I am about to start a string...I will post a couple of pics as I described. Creates a much cleaner end loop and equally as stable.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


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## K.G.K.

I thought I would further explain that after you weave the tags into the respective string bundles the string is not whip stitched together. Twisting will close the string together to form the loop that is ultimately served.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


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## K.G.K.

One last thing. As you are serving toward the loop...as you get about 1/4" from completion I lessen the tension on the string so that you can really sinch up the serving so that it has the same consistency or thickness throughout. 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


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## K.G.K.

Here is a great thread explaining with photographs. Give it a read on how to do perfect end loops.... 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1932071&p=1066322840#post1066322840


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## ruffme

this couldn't be more timely! Thank you for taking your time to put this together!


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> Well just finished the first cable and its relaxing. The serving looks great till I get to the tag end material and I guess I didn't pull it tight enough. The serving (3D) wanted to sink into the string material in the whip stitch area that finished the tag ends. Alittle lumpy and can slightly see string material through in 2 spots. That being said its defintly usable as its mostly cosmetic and I will keep that as a spare. Its going on a primal and they are hard on the cables at the slide. Will take pics and post in a day or two. Do I just need to pull the string tighter on the tag end as it finishes off around the string? Less seperation on the second loop than the first (only one gap) so improvement. The string really doesnt look bad but Im not going to be happy till it looks "professional"
> 
> Also know its only 36" but had a "flag" to check for rotation as I relaxed it and it didnt budge.


I like to back serve my tag ends to finish them. If you pull it good and tight, it stays small. The thing you have to remember is which end to do the last back serve with. I always serve toward the post so when I decide which tag end to use to finish the loop, I always make sure that I'm wrapping it in the same way as my serving tool will wrap when it goes towards the post. That way the serving tool actually tightens and flattens the back served tag ends as it goes over them.


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## marc1980augrad

Saved for future reference!


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## Huntinsker

redruff said:


> this couldn't be more timely! Thank you for taking your time to put this together!


No problem. Keep checking back because I plan to keep updating it with ideas and strings that people make. If you build a jig and strings, post them up. We'd love to see some awesome strings added to the thread.


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## Anynamewilldo

Went half way in-between after trying one like kgk and very pleased with the result. I liked not whip stitching but didnt like not closing the loop. Think it looks rounder closing the loop with the tags. So I wraped one about 1" past post and then ran it 10 times around just one color and cinched up tight like your serving and cut off flush. Closed the loop with the other untill I got just past the other then wraped 10 times in one half of one color so it was just like the other. Then served toward loop. looks great. Any reason this wont hold?


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## K.G.K.

Sounds like a good idea. I would like to see a pic of your finished loop. Im sure its solid. I may give that a try. Good thinking....

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


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## Anynamewilldo

Been taking some pics as I go. Having a real hard time getting a good focus on the string. Maybe I need to lay it on something so it will focus.


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> Been taking some pics as I go. Having a real hard time getting a good focus on the string. Maybe I need to lay it on something so it will focus.


Sounds like your loops should work well. I find that putting your hand right behind the string will get it to focus on it. Otherwise the camera will focus on the background. You can do that or put something else in the shot like the jig post so that it focuses on that. The string should also be in focus then.


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## Xbowed

Wow Now that's the way to show a person how to make their own strings.. GREAT JOB


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## dwagoner

aread said:


> It is easy to build a safe & useable bow string.
> 
> However, to build one with no peep rotation and really nice looking serving, there is a longer learning curve.
> 
> You should be able to make a string for your own use on the first or second try. Making them of a quality to sell to others takes a lot more practice on a lot of different bows and a lot more knowledge that you can get even from AT.
> 
> JMHO,
> Allen


Very true.... and forgot to say it takes time also to see if your strings last..... that takes a year on a bow thats shot alot too.... i just dont want this thread to get people thinking they can make a set and throw it on someones bow and know theres not going to be an issue, that was my whole point about this "SOOO EASY to build strings" comments made. their is alot more to it for sure. dont need strings breaking, derailing and such on people....



K.G.K. said:


> I built a version of this string jig with modifications. I have built 25-30 sets of strings and cables now that doesn't include short practice lengths.
> 
> Everytime I build they get better. My sets have no creep and the serving look as good as any set I've seen...but I agree there is a learning curve. I wouldn't get too hung up on numbers though. Just jump in and go for it. The process of learning and practicing is the joy. If you like it ask questions and keep learning through practice. I replaced my Insanity sets three time in 2 weeks because they kept getting better and I waneed to try different things.
> 
> And I really enjoy building custom string sets and tuning friends bows. Thats the beauty of learning this skill set. Enjoy!!!
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 4


i would say depending on how many you build, how many buddies you can use as test dummies also, you can learn alot in a year for sure.... i had a few buddies that always just gave me their bow too, i never had a failure or any issue but looking back its just good to be cautious when learning. looks like you got friends that you get to play with stuff and get good feedback also. that definitely helps.....


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## dwagoner

Anynamewilldo said:


> Well just finished the first cable and its relaxing. The serving looks great till I get to the tag end material and I guess I didn't pull it tight enough. The serving (3D) wanted to sink into the string material in the whip stitch area that finished the tag ends. Alittle lumpy and can slightly see string material through in 2 spots. That being said its defintly usable as its mostly cosmetic and I will keep that as a spare. Its going on a primal and they are hard on the cables at the slide. Will take pics and post in a day or two. Do I just need to pull the string tighter on the tag end as it finishes off around the string? Less seperation on the second loop than the first (only one gap) so improvement. The string really doesnt look bad but Im not going to be happy till it looks "professional"
> 
> Also know its only 36" but had a "flag" to check for rotation as I relaxed it and it didnt budge.


NO NEED to backserve tag ends when making end loops, it will leave your serving lumpy and uneven, its just a build up of material that you have to serve over. NP's pictorial is a great tuitorial on tag ends and how they can be made cleanly and smooth.... the link was on another page, i would try that out and see how you like it, you have to try methods till you find what you prefer and works well for you


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## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> NO NEED to backserve tag ends when making end loops, it will leave your serving lumpy and uneven


It doesn't have to leave your serving lumpy and uneven but it can, just like any other method. If you don't overlap your back serve a bunch, it won't build up and will only be as large as 1 strand diameter on top of the bundles. That's not much at all and when you serve over it tightly going the correct direction, it tightens and flattens out so it's nice and smooth. If you do it incorrectly it can get lumpy though.


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## Anynamewilldo

Part of my lumpy might have been in not getting the string to lay flat on the wrap. Just finished the set to install. Will post pics tomorrow. First cable made was lumpy when I hit the backserve and the tag end material. Second cable was like kgk and was better. I just reserved it as Im going to use that one and my third one and Im getting better at even loop leanths and how much to back serve. What I dont like about second set even after redoing better is the back serve runs down the center of the two sides and I dont feel I get the same snugness when I pull it through as I do on the closed loops if this makes sense. Maybe I served to far with the tag ends. Third cable was done with the 10 wraps on half at end no back serve and Im fairly sure its not coming off and looks good.Also got the tag ends to lay flatter as I closed the loop and that helped. I do wonder if im going to far on serving the tag ends. String was also done like third cable and am happy till I get more practice.
TY for all the help. Its been fun. Cant wait for the spinner to show up though. When I was doing 5" of serving by hand I thought man what a bunch of wusses LOL. After doing the 15" on the strings I will be checking the mail  Bow bender needs to make a serving removal tool cause removing 9" of serving by hand is not fun


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## Sum Ting Wong

Since you guys have lots of string material, could someone do a little test? First, take a couple of really thin strands and hang them with weights attached to determine their breaking point. I guess you could use small plastic bottles filled with water and add a bit of water each time. Make them shorter than arm's length so they don't hit you in the face when they snap and wear eye pro and sleeves?
Then hang several strands and attach 80-90% of the weight to them. Then coat half of the strings generously with candle wax and see how long they would last hanging. I've seen claims on this forum that petroleum in candle wax will damage the bowstring, but I don't have an extra string to test it myself.
If you're no bored after doing this, you could also test other "bowstring-hazardous" materials like rubbing alcohol, soap, machine oil, etc.


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## Huntinsker

Sum Ting Wong said:


> Since you guys have lots of string material, could someone do a little test? First, take a couple of really thin strands and hang them with weights attached to determine their breaking point. I guess you could use small plastic bottles filled with water and add a bit of water each time. Make them shorter than arm's length so they don't hit you in the face when they snap and wear eye pro and sleeves?
> Then hang several strands and attach 80-90% of the weight to them. Then coat half of the strings generously with candle wax and see how long they would last hanging. I've seen claims on this forum that petroleum in candle wax will damage the bowstring, but I don't have an extra string to test it myself.
> If you're no bored after doing this, you could also test other "bowstring-hazardous" materials like rubbing alcohol, soap, machine oil, etc.


No offence but I think we can save a lot of time and just recommend a commercially available string wax or conditioner. You can get commercial stuff for around $5 so I wouldn't bother with a home brew.


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## msgtdan

I like this thread so much I wanted a hard copy to build and work from. I've condensed it to just the actual process posts and have removed discussions and tags. This is just a cut and paste of the threads and I know nothing of building strings, though trying to learn. I've tried to keep things together and fix the couple of photos that were added later, if I've messed something up let me know and I'll try to fix it. The file is to large to attach so I've put it in a public dropbox. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55193898/The%20Comprehensive%20DIY%20Compound%20Bow%20String.pdf


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## Huntinsker

msgtdan said:


> I like this thread so much I wanted a hard copy to build and work from. I've condensed it to just the actual process posts and have removed discussions and tags. This is just a cut and paste of the threads and I know nothing of building strings, though trying to learn. I've tried to keep things together and fix the couple of photos that were added later, if I've messed something up let me know and I'll try to fix it. The file is to large to attach so I've put it in a public dropbox. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55193898/The%20Comprehensive%20DIY%20Compound%20Bow%20String.pdf


Thanks for doing that! That looks great! I have it on a Word Document but it's great people can just open and save it to their computer from the link that you provided. I really appreciate it and hope that it will come in handy for those trying to build from this thread. Great work:thumbs_up


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## Purka

Huntinsker said:


> No problem. Keep checking back because I plan to keep updating it with ideas and strings that people make. If you build a jig and strings, post them up. We'd love to see some awesome strings added to the thread.


This is a jig I was building for a friend...calibrating it with a load cell.
Also added a couple of attachments to make it into a drawing machine as well.


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## Huntinsker

Purka, I've seen your jig on another thread and really liked it. If I had a welder or any welding skills for that matter, I'd probably have one similar. Thanks for posting!


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## msgtdan

Huntinsker, 

Just trying to verify some assembly, on the L brackets it looks like you put the 4" vertical, is that the case? Also the size of the metal between the brackets is listed as 3/4" wide, but the picture looks like it is as wide as the brackets and the brackets I got were ~1 1/4" wide. Did you get narrower brackets or something else going on?


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## Huntinsker

msgtdan said:


> Huntinsker,
> 
> Just trying to verify some assembly, on the L brackets it looks like you put the 4" vertical, is that the case? Also the size of the metal between the brackets is listed as 3/4" wide, but the picture looks like it is as wide as the brackets and the brackets I got were ~1 1/4" wide. Did you get narrower brackets or something else going on?


You're right about the L brackets. I put the 4" vertical. The steel that's sandwiched between them is 1.5" by 1/2" and 7" long. I'm not sure why I have 3/4" in the post. That is supposed to be 1 1/2". Nice catch. I hope that didn't mess anyone up. I'll put up a big update right now.


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## Huntinsker

UPDATE

The parts list has the steel bar listed as 3/4" wide when it's actually 1 1/2" wide. I'm not sure how 3/4" got in there but is should read'

"2 pieces of 7” long, 1 1/2" wide by ½” thick steel bar (If in the Kansas City area, Metal by the Foot will cut it to length)"

Sorry if that caused any head aches!


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## msgtdan

I'd gotten all the pieces but that as was planning on discussing it with my supplier, but figured it would be 1 1/2". In Springfield MO I use Rose Metal, they'll cut to length as well.


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## Anynamewilldo

Heres pics with the top cable being my first and the bottom being the last. First was done similar to this thread(obvoiusly not as good middle was without closing the loop or back tying. Bottom was done like pics to come.Got better on the last one one the back tying the end of serving. Was having problems as the jig doesnt make it to end so have to hand do the end.


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## Anynamewilldo

Looks like this Before I served. Im thinking I went to far after closing the loop.


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## Anynamewilldo

Few more pics. Several questions. The string was pretty round but some of the cables werent perfectly round. Need to work on my burnishing. So you burnish the four quartes and then twist? No seperating of the strands.? They stick together after burnishing. Im not sure I ran a string between the colors on the cables but know I did on the string so maybe that was it. After installing on bow and shooting a few, the 3d serving still staying together but I did get alittle more separation on the taged loops. Have a browning jig I got awhile back and never used. Thinking about getting some .07 halo and serving the loops. I know this thread is about doing it cheaply but is there any down side to me trying the other way? Also want to practice something for fun. Whats the shortest string you would make to throw away that still gives the full affect for serving and twisting?

BTW no comments on the weild at the end of left jig The hardned thread on the acme and that slip collar didnt weild like the mild steel on the frame of the jig.

Heres a link to pics of the jig.http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2031749&p=1068105037#post1068105037


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## Huntinsker

Looking good Anynamewilldo. I dewax each half bundle and then stretch before twisting to even the strand tension. I then reduce the weight, add the golf tees, twist, separate the bundles with a scrap piece, tension to 350lbs and then burnish. When you dewax each half bundle, you don't have to go nuts. I usually do one tight pass on each half of the bundle and maybe a second pass if there is a lot on the first pass. 

When I serve toward the posts, my serving jig doesn't make it to the end either. I will let out some serving and then wrap it by hand keeping tension up and going slowly so that there is no gaps in the serving. If you take your time and pull tightly, everything will look nice and smooth. 

I don't think it could hurt anything if you wanted to try and serve your loops. It's a little different process but it's a good way to make strings. If you overlap your tag ends and pull hard, you won't have any separation. Ray Knight uses the tag end method if you want to see some AWESOME loops you can search for some of his pictures. He makes some beautiful strings.


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## Anynamewilldo

Also dont know if this is a problem to anyone else but the strut nut from menards is just narrow enough it will spin when you go to tighten your jig down. I took a 5/8 grade 8 washer and just barely ground two sides till it slides freely in the strut but doesnt turn and weilded the nut to it so it is held the direction it belongs. Washer against the strut with nut on bottom and the jig slides nice and then you just tighten down with wrench with no worries of trying to reach under and keeping it straight. Maybe it was just the nuts I got but thought maybe someone else was having that aggravation.


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## Lerie

Another great post and what I enjoy the most on these forums - community members helping each other.

Back in March 2010 posted a thread titled "Starting String Length & Calculator" in the Arrows & Strings Forum. I tried entering a link to it, however, when I tried to use it, it did not take me back to the original link so I deleted the post and posted this. A search in the Arrow & Strings Forum should take you to that post.


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## Huntinsker

So I was making a buss cable the today and noticed that when I pulled my tag ends tight on the first bundle, that the spring on my jig made a little noise. I realized that I had pulled tightly enough to move that jig post just slightly. Now the spring that I use is a very heavy spring but I think any movement during lay out is too much movement. I came up with an easy solution using a chunk of Osage Orange that I had saved from a stave that I worked into a youth longbow. You basically wedge it between the steel post and the handle bolt on the sprung end of the jig like this.














You can see that I used a rat tail file to work a notch to fit the "handle" into. You wouldn't even have to do that if you don't want. Just one caution though. Take it out before you start to tension the bundles to even the tension.


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## Huntinsker

So as promised, here is how I laid out the Black/Blue/Silver string. I kind of got super focused on what I was doing and didn't take as many pics as what I meant to. You'll get the idea though. 

I did the control cable first because I thought it'd be the easiest. I laid out 5 loops of black, 2 silver, 10 blue and the last 2 silver to make a 24 strand cable.

First I laid out the black and secured the tag ends using my string clamps at the non-sprung post. Then did one loop (down and back) of silver and secured both ends of silver right along with the black. Then I did the blue and silver securing the tags at the other end. In the first picture you don't see the silver on the post because both ends are tied off since I only went down and back. The silver goes where the space between the black and blue is. In the second pic you can see the first silver I laid out but the second is not on the post because it's tied off with the blue.














Sorry no good pics of finishing the loops but I can tell you to go slowly and deliberately. They turn out cool with the dual colors if you're careful. 

Here is how I separated the bundles for dewaxing and also to separate the colors after twisting.


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## Huntinsker

The buss cable was next and laid out just the same as the control cable except you finish the loops on the same post just like in the first tutorial of making a buss cable on this jig. I wasn't super happy with the loops on this but it's for a friend and he said they would be fine. I learned that you have to go SLOW and take your time to get the color to alternate evenly. It also helps to keep the material twisted so that it doesn't flatten out on you. The string turned out a lot better.


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## Huntinsker

The string was next and now after doing the cables, the process got a little easier. Still more time consuming if you want to make it look good. For the string I like a 22 strand string so I laid out 4.5 loops of black, 1 loop of silver, 4.5 loops blue, 1 loop silver to make 22 strands. The black and blue had one tag end at each end. If you look closely in the picture you can see 2 silver tag ends and one of each black and blue on the bottom clamp.








Here is a good pic of what the loops can look like if you go slowly. The string had half black/silver and half blue/silver for the loops. Looks pretty neat if you ask me.








Some headaches that I ran into doing this string was when wrapping the tag ends to finish the loops, You have to be careful to not pull so tightly back away from the center that the bundles roll up the post. If you do that, the colors will get mixed up on the post and it's harder to separate them after twisting. To avoid that, I put my tag ends through the center and brought them back but instead of pulling hard towards me, I pulled them tightly sideways to just pull them to the back of the post until the meet. This doesn't roll the bundles. It's kind of hard to keep them from rolling but if you can, it'll make for a nicer looking string. I'll post pics of the finished threads after I install them tomorrow hopefully.

One other bit of info. When I dewaxed the bundles, I only dewaxed the black and blue. I wanted the silver to keep it's color as much as possible so it didn't "disappear" if the black and blue were to bleed onto it. If I were to do this again with say a black pin strip and bright base colors, I'd dewax the black because I wouldn't want to muddy up the bright colors. You just have to know the material and if it will bleed or not I guess.


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## Huntinsker

Oh another modification to the jig that I've done. You can see in the pics above that there is still some of the hex bolt head on the posts. I screwed them down tight and then used a Dremel cut off wheel to cut the outside of the head flush with the outside of the post. This gives a little larger surface to hook a tape measure on the post and makes it easier for measuring. It also makes a little safety incase your super strut starts bowing so your string won't come flying off at you.

If you do this, make sure you get ever surface on the posts as smooth as possible. I used the Dremel tool with a grinding attachment as well as sand paper to get it smooth. I then checked it with a cotton ball to check for snags.


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## Huntinsker

Here are some pics of the Black/silver/blue/silver string after it's installed. They're not the best because I had to take them with my phone.





















The pics really don't do it much justice. It looks really cool in person and got a lot of attention at the shop.


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## Huntinsker

Here's another one that I made for a young lady's Diamond Razor Edge. Her dad brought her bow in to the shop and my buddy working on it was taking it out of the press but the cable jumped off the module and cut the serving and a strand of string. He paid for me to make her a new string and she wanted green and pink. Not flo green, grass green she said. I surprised her with clear serving which she got a huge kick out of since she had never seen it before. It was awesome handing her back her bow and seeing her face light up like that. It's really nice to see a teenage girl getting excited about archery!


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## Huntinsker

Will be making a Flo Green with Black pin stripe soon. Should be really cool. I'll try to post good pics of layout when I get time to make it. 

If you've made a jig or string, post up some pics! We'd love to see them!


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## Anynamewilldo

Made the string holder very similar to what you made in post 97. Works awesome. I did it cause I just started my second set and wanted to use the nw spinner. Tag ends looking better. My only complaint so far is in my burnishing. Not sure if I asked this before but does anyone seperate the strands after burnishing the four quarters? Burnishing after the twist helps but after burnishing the quarters the four groups are stuck together like four mini strings and when Im done it doesnt look round everywhere. Thought maybe it was caused by the sticking before twisting.


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## redyak3

That's some awesome work Huntinsker !!! I'm using a Spigarelli serving tool and like it alot. How tall are your flat stock "legs" and what thickness are they. Might be interested in a NWS or moto-server of some sort in the future.


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## Anynamewilldo

redyak3 said:


> That's some awesome work Huntinsker !!! I'm using a Spigarelli serving tool and like it alot. How tall are your flat stock "legs" and what thickness are they. Might be interested in a NWS or moto-server of some sort in the future.


Just started my second set and I did the first 1 by hand. Got a nws and just did my first 10". For someone on a budget its awesome. Still need to get some washers as he leaves a place to balance the way you like.


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> Made the string holder very similar to what you made in post 97. Works awesome. I did it cause I just started my second set and wanted to use the nw spinner. Tag ends looking better. My only complaint so far is in my burnishing. Not sure if I asked this before but does anyone seperate the strands after burnishing the four quarters? Burnishing after the twist helps but after burnishing the quarters the four groups are stuck together like four mini strings and when Im done it doesnt look round everywhere. Thought maybe it was caused by the sticking before twisting.


I know what you mean about the 1/2 bundles sticking together. I so far haven't had a problem with mine but you can tell on certain colors that they do like to stick a little better. Have you been dewaxing the halves of the colors and then doing the whole color together? After I do each half of each color, I take the golf tee out that separates each color in half, then dewax the separate colors. This will make the colors come together better. Then after a stretch, twist and then tension again, I burnish the bundles together to make the string round. Seems to work well. 

I don't see how separating the strands from one another could hurt but it may be a little tedious unless you find a good tool for the job. I would worry a little about fraying the strands while doing it though. If you come up with a decent method or if you try it and it works well, let us know. New info is good info.


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> That's some awesome work Huntinsker !!! I'm using a Spigarelli serving tool and like it alot. How tall are your flat stock "legs" and what thickness are they. Might be interested in a NWS or moto-server of some sort in the future.


The legs are 1/2" thick 1 1/2" wide and 7" long.


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## cooper334

Tagged


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## nsbc07

thanks for explaining those details. I learnt quite a lot


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## kc hay seed

do the string posts extend down into the the threaded rod or just through the nut and tighten down??? thanks.


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## Huntinsker

kc hay seed said:


> do the string posts extend down into the the threaded rod or just through the nut and tighten down??? thanks.


The threads go all the way to the bottom of the nut, through the threaded rod. When I drilled and tapped them, I put the nut on the rod and drilled them at the same time. That locks them together so you can tap them at the same time too.


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## B.Hunter

To Huntinsker-Thank you for taking alot of your time to post pics/detail/instruct on this thread.
To Automan26-Thank you for implementing your knowledge.
My hats off to both of ya. Very nicely done.


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## jam105

tagged


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## minndroptine

10: Remove the golf tees and tension the string to 300lbs and let stretch for at least 20 minutes to let the strands equalize within the bundles. (I like 350lbs) (This is my “jig” to check what weight I’m at. The notch is 300lbs and the whole thing is 100lbs.)
[ATTACH=CONFIG said:


> 1728664[/ATTACH]


So I am spring ignorant. How do you figure how far is how many pounds lbF. The spring is a 530 lbs, spring Load at 25% deflection. Maximum deflection is 50%. So if 50% of defection is max at 530 lbF so 1/2inch is 25% of compression is 265 lbF. I put those spring numbers into a spring calculator and it was nowhere near 530 lbF. Obviously I'm missing something.


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## Huntinsker

minndroptine said:


> So I am spring ignorant. How do you figure how far is how many pounds lbF. The spring is a 530 lbs, spring Load at 25% deflection. Maximum deflection is 50%. So if 50% of defection is max at 530 lbF so 1/2inch is 25% of compression is 265 lbF. I put those spring numbers into a spring calculator and it was nowhere near 530 lbF. Obviously I'm missing something.


I didn't calculate anything. I put a scale on the jig and started cranking. I have a scale that will go up to 500lbs so it was a pretty easy task to calibrate it.


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## minndroptine

*Scale it*



Huntinsker said:


> I didn't calculate anything. I put a scale on the jig and started cranking. I have a scale that will go up to 500lbs so it was a pretty easy task to calibrate it.


Thought that might have been the way. Just bought a scale off Amazon. Thank you for your time and great thread. Using the tag end technique you explained, I reserved a cable end for a customer. In #19 I liked your idea for finishing your loop end. That is the same way I tie in a nock set. Much much easier to do it this way in a tight space and serving towards the loop much easier than trying to get the jig started on the loop. I just welded a chain link on top of a steel rod and welded that to a 90 added a guset and bolted it to a unisrut. Pretty much just put cables and strings under tension (No scale or spring just a ratchet strap untill the string plays like a E or A on a Guitar) to reserve the cables mostly when the serving separates. My first atempt with your instruction. Took of the old serving. Grabed a piece of scrap string served the loop that was previously unserved. Then finished the cable. could be better but looks a lot cleaner that what I used to end up with Thanks again for all the info.


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## Huntinsker

Looks good minndroptine. Nice and clean for the first one.


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## Huntinsker

Finally got that flo green/black pin stripe string done. I laid the buss cable out just like I did the black/blue/silver string. 5 loops of flo green and 1 loop of black for the first bundle and then 1 loop of black and then 5 loops of flo green for the second. This allowed me to "grab" the black with a scrap piece of string and separate it from the green.

Hopefully you can see the 2 loops of black for each bundle in this. 








Here's the yoke end.








The string I laid out 9.5 loops of flo green to get 19 strands and then I finished with 1.5 loops (3 strands) of black to get the 22 strand string. Just like the rest of my strings, the loops have half one color and half the other color.








Too bad Mathews bows with a roller guard require so much serving. I'd guess 80% of the string and cable are covered with black serving. I tried to talk him into clear but he wanted black. If I don't forget, I'll get a pic of the strings installed.


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## Methane Archery

minndroptine said:


> So I am spring ignorant. How do you figure how far is how many pounds lbF. The spring is a 530 lbs, spring Load at 25% deflection. Maximum deflection is 50%. So if 50% of defection is max at 530 lbF so 1/2inch is 25% of compression is 265 lbF. I put those spring numbers into a spring calculator and it was nowhere near 530 lbF. Obviously I'm missing something.


if spring is say 1.5" long then you would take 1.5x.75 = 1.125 so you should get the rated poundage and that amount of compression on the spring. the .75 is minus the 25%


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## Huntinsker

According to my scale and the "jig" that I made to calibrate it, my spring is compressed down to 1 7/8" long at 100lbs and 1 19/32" at 300lbs. If you don't have a scale, that should get you awfully close to what you need to know. If you have a scale but it doesn't go up to 300lbs, put your scale on the jig, crank it down to 100lbs, if it goes that high, then bring a nut up behind it so that it can't decompress. Then take the tension off the scale and repeat 2 more times to get to your 300lb compression point. You could do this with any hanging scale really but the higher it goes, the fewer times you have to do this and the more accurate you can be.


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## zdog73

Ttt


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## neonistic

I am in the process of building my jig but I didn't want to order bar steel, so I just took a bar of 1/4" steel from HD and welded the pieces together to make the 1/2" bars.


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## tominoz

G'day All,
Been following this discussion for a while & have just about finished a slightly different design but thought I should share some things that I found out about springs today. Being an ex mechanic the first thing I thought of for a spring was valve spring but after a long search through my shed I couldn't find one any ware so I asked friends who are still on the tools if they had any laying around and was directed to the local engine reconditioning firm who handed me a heap from their scrap bin.

This weekend I finally had time to put all the parts I had been collecting and whilst I was happy with everything I felt that the spring may have been a bit weak so I rang around looking for a 250kg scale to test it. After getting no where I went back to the mechanic shop to see if he could measure the force of his press and he directed me back to the engine reconditions. They have this wonderful little press with a weight gauge and measure so that they can calibrate each individual valve spring to find the weak ones. 

The spring that I had was only good for 200# but they handed me 2 double springs that went well over 500#. Then when I told him what weights I wanted he got out the verniers and and gave me the exact measurements I needed. Very helpful. This was much easier than all the setups you have been telling us about.

I hope this helps, thanks for a great thread

Thomas


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## Huntinsker

Thanks tominoz for the tip. I thought about the valve spring initially but couldn't find one. I don't know any mechanics so it was easier for me to look on McMaster Carr's website where they list all the attributes of their springs. The nice thing about being able to calibrate the spring at home is that it allows you to check it periodically. That keeps your string building consistent. It's also very hard to measure something exactly the same as someone else especially when they may be using different tools so hopefully your measurements are the same as his. Good luck and post up your jig and some strings after you get some built. We'd love to see them.


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## Huntinsker

neonistic said:


> I am in the process of building my jig but I didn't want to order bar steel, so I just took a bar of 1/4" steel from HD and welded the pieces together to make the 1/2" bars.


I actually thought about doing that too but I don't have a welder to work with. Let us know how it works out for you.


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## neonistic

Strings came today and the jig is just about finished. Scale is on the way but I may start a set using the measurements above if I can't wait till it gets here (very high likelihood!).


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## neonistic

So I started a string today, for my 92 PSE Fire-Flite Express, with 24 strands (53"). After getting to the twisting stage, I checked it with a nock and it barely fit. I am guessing at this point that after serving it will be too big. Do I need to do fewer strands? How many? This is my first string so I am starting with some B50.


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## Huntinsker

neonistic said:


> So I started a string today, for my 92 PSE Fire-Flite Express, with 24 strands (53"). After getting to the twisting stage, I checked it with a nock and it barely fit. I am guessing at this point that after serving it will be too big. Do I need to do fewer strands? How many? This is my first string so I am starting with some B50.


B50 is a much larger diameter material than most of the modern string materials. It really doesn't make a very good compound string because it is very soft stuff. You'll get a lot of stretch and peep twist with that material. It's better used for recurve/long bows where there is no peep involved and actually it's used on vintage trad bows because it's soft enough to not damage the bow tips. B50 is .018 diameter so 24 strands will make a very large bundle. I serve my end serving with .014 diameter Halo if that gives you an idea of how big B50 is compared to more modern string material. 

If I were you, I'd look through the classifieds and get you some 452x or give 60x a call and order a spool from them to start with. It's a very easy material to work with and will give you far fewer headaches than the B50. I'm not even certain how many strands to recommend you use if you do stick with the B50. You don't want it so big that your string won't fit into your cam tracks because that can cause some serious problems. I'd say maybe 16 strands but that would be a guess. Best thing to do would be to get a harder material. Even DynaFLIGHT 97 would be a much better material to use than B50 and you can get D97 pretty cheap as well.


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## neonistic

Sounds like a plan.


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## Huntinsker

My phone takes really crappy pics but here is the Flo Green with Black Pinstripe string on my buddies DXT. Looks awesome in person if you like a bright string.


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## thwackaddict

Awesome pinstripes! Gonna give it a try sometime. Just need to get a couple of more spools of different colors.


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## kc hay seed

aread said:


> I tried that too, but they wouldn't stay where I needed them. How do you keep them in place?


i fthey are loose just hold under hot water and squeeze the nocks until they fit tight enough. or use rubber bands by looping rubber band under the string and through its self, through the nock slot and around the string on the other side.when finished just take rubber band off. good luck


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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> My phone takes really crappy pics but here is the Flo Green with Black Pinstripe string on my buddies DXT. Looks awesome in person if you like a bright string.
> View attachment 1781816
> View attachment 1781818
> View attachment 1781820


Very nice ... I like the pin stripe accent rather than equal colors. Looks Great ! I also agree, Mathews requires a lot of serving. I did a Mathews Reezon for someone the other day and just about used a whole spool of serving with only about 9" of of string color to show off when installed. I will try clear serving next time for sure.


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## mainersmotive

Marked


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## Huntinsker

How about a little MERRICA!!! These are going to a buddy of mine back in NE. He said red, white and blue and make it awesome so I did my best.


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## Huntinsker

Sorry didn't have time to give much detail about the red/white/blue string above. For the buss I did 4 loops blue and 2 loops white and finished the loop. Then did 2 loops white and 4 loops red and finished that off. That totaled out to 4 loops or 8 strands of each color. I wrapped a piece of white (natural 452x) around each color before twisting. I used the scrap piece around each color to separate them nicely after twisting. 

The string was a little trickier. I like to use 22 strands of 452x for my strings but 22 strands divided by 3 colors doesn't come out even. So I did 3.5 loops or 7 strands of both red and blue. that put 1 tag end of each color at each end of the jig. Then I laid out 4 loops or 8 strands of white so both tag ends were at 1 end of the jig. This gave me 2 tag ends to finish one loop and 4 tag ends to finish the other. One loop has alternating red/white and blue/white on each half of the loop and the other end is solid red and blue on each side of the loop. 

Serving is .014 white halo to do the clear and red/black 62xs for the center.


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## zanon

could you please tell me the correct direction for center serving?which way should i serve?towards the post on my right or on my left?thank you


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## Huntinsker

zanon said:


> could you please tell me the correct direction for center serving?which way should i serve?towards the post on my right or on my left?thank you


It depends on how you twist your string and even what side of the string you're standing on. I twist mine clockwise if you were looking from the post that your are twisting at, toward the middle of the string. My string is always laid out so the top loop is on my left post. In that case, you could serve toward either the right post or the left post. What really matters is the direction that your tool rotates over the string. If it rotates over the string going away from you or if it rotates over the string going towards you. 

For how I have my jig set up and how I twist my string, I always serve my center serving from right to left (towards the top loop) with the serving tool going over the string away from me. If you follow my description, you should be able to see how I twist my string and that should help you. I COULD also serve it from left to right (away from the top loop) if I were to have the serving tool come over the string, towards me. It really is a personal preference thing.

If I was to reverse the direction that I twist my string and twist it counterclockwise in stead of clockwise, you could do the opposite of my first paragraph. 

So to recap, the direction you serve (right/left) is dependent on how you twist your string and how you want your serving tool to rotate around the string. It's very hard to explain this in text form. 

Here is an easy way to tell if you are using the right direction/rotation combo. 

1. Tension the string to only 150lbs. 
2. Start to serve the string using high tension on your jig.
3. Observe the twists of your string and see if the twists are getting tighter in front of the serving tool or if they are getting looser. If they get looser, you need to change the direction of travel and use the same direction of rotation OR keep the direction of travel and change the direction of rotation. 

Basically you want the twists in front of the serving tool to get tighter as you serve.

The next string I make, I'll try to make a video that better explains it.


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## Anynamewilldo

Just finished my second set totally. Turned out real nice. Getting the burnishing down. Still just alittle seperation on the tag ends when I go to 300#. Seriosly thinking about making a stout jig and serving loop with .008 spectra. Have a brownell jig but it gives to much. Had to remake the string as I got alittle to much flame putting shrink tubing on speed nocks ): Thinking about getting the 4x shrink as I had a problem getting it to suck down all the way. Reading about alternatives to a flame. One thing I tried that worked well on the tubing when it wasnt on the string was quickly rubbing the side of one of those wood burners like what zenith sells. Trying different things before I put them on this string.


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## Huntinsker

That's great Anynamewilldo. The best way to keep the tag ends from separating when tensioning to 300lbs is to pull good and tight and overlap the strands as much as possible. If you do want to serve the ends, you could use a string splitter or make a string splitter to allow you to serve the ends using the jig you already have. Just mark the center of the loops before you move them around the posts so you make sure to get them in the right spot.


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## Anynamewilldo

How do you over lap around the post? I can pull it tight around the post but cant overlap it till I clear it.


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## Huntinsker

What I do is instead of pulling straight back toward you, I pull sideways a bit and I don't pull the tag ends really tight toward the middle of the string when putting them through the center. Basically after the first 3-4 wraps, I pull the left tag end toward the right and the right tag end toward the left. This pulls them more on top of themselves. By not pulling them super tight toward the center of the string when putting them through the middle, this keeps the overlapped wraps on top of each other rather than having to slide it back up with the next wrap. 

I hope you can envision what I'm getting at. It's kind of hard to put into words.


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## Anynamewilldo

Got it. Will try next time. TY


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## K.G.K.

Are Crossbow strings built under the same specs, i.e. 300#+ tension for stretch and serving and then measure relaxed string at 100# to length? Thanks,


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Are Crossbow strings built under the same specs, i.e. 300#+ tension for stretch and serving and then measure relaxed string at 100# to length? Thanks,


Not 100% sure so I sent a PM to a big player on the crossbow forum. I'll report back what I find out.


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## Huntinsker

So I got a pm back and was sent to another person who has been making crossbow strings for quite some time. I'll report back with what they say when I receive a response. I've done some reading and researching though and I'm leaning toward it being the same.


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## minndroptine

*Thx Again*

The knowledge that I have gotten from this sight. Is amazing just want to say thanks again. Here's my two post/stretch and twist jig.


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## Huntinsker

minndroptine said:


> The knowledge that I have gotten from this sight. Is amazing just want to say thanks again. Here's my two post/stretch and twist jig.
> View attachment 1793561
> View attachment 1793562


WOW!!! Talk about stepping it up! That looks great! I bet that is rock solid and will make one heck of a string.


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## Huntinsker

Had to post this for my buddy. I made him some strings for his bow and did the initial set up for him. We went out and bare shaft tuned it today and this is what we got at 20 yards. 








3 bareshafts and 1 fletched. Only shot 1 fletched in an effort to not ruin an arrow.
The dot was straight above the group but fell off after the last shot. We had to sight it in again but he was super happy with the results. It's not hard to do with a good set of strings!


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## Ned250

Oh boy, this is dangerous. 

I used to help my dad build strings back in the 90s. If corset the jig but it was a big green jig with four posts. At any rate, this has really grabbed my interest. Thinking I may take a stab at it. I'm sick of dropping so much cash on strings when I've done it before. Granted it was a long time ago!


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## Huntinsker

Ned250 said:


> Oh boy, this is dangerous.
> 
> I used to help my dad build strings back in the 90s. If corset the jig but it was a big green jig with four posts. At any rate, this has really grabbed my interest. Thinking I may take a stab at it. I'm sick of dropping so much cash on strings when I've done it before. Granted it was a long time ago!


It's like riding a bike!


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## jim p

Maybe one day I will figure out which direction to serve a string. Don't even try to explain it to me. I just don't get it. To make it even more confusing the direction of the center serving and the direction of the idler wheel serving just makes me crazy. 

I can work a rubik cube but serving direction is beyond me.


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## Huntinsker

jim p said:


> Maybe one day I will figure out which direction to serve a string. Don't even try to explain it to me. I just don't get it. To make it even more confusing the direction of the center serving and the direction of the idler wheel serving just makes me crazy.
> 
> I can work a rubik cube but serving direction is beyond me.


Hopefully I'll get my deer in the next few weeks so I can build my "summer" string set for my bow. When I do, I'll have my wife video me so I can hopefully explain the direction.


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## jim p

Thanks. 

I may get some cord of different colors and twist them like strings and then post pictures showing how I wind the serving. Then maybe I can get an ok or a no on how I wind.


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## Huntinsker

jim p said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I may get some cord of different colors and twist them like strings and then post pictures showing how I wind the serving. Then maybe I can get an ok or a no on how I wind.


I thought of that as an illustration too. Not a bad idea.


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## Anynamewilldo

Its actually easy but it seams if you hear the wrong illustration for your brain it will confuse you. I was confused at first and seams a lot are. For me it was cause I heard something like follow the string twist and it got me all backwards. If I was to hear it all again I think the easiest way it could be put for me would be if you twisted string clockwise then serving would go clockwise from the end starting from. So if your doing center serving right to left it would be like standing on right side of jig and looking to the other end and see serving going clockwise. If your going left to right, stand at left end and it will be going clockwise. Just face the way you are serving,left to right,right to left, and imagine clockwise. Obvoiusly opposite if the string was twisted counterclockwise.
If this confused you at all disregard and don't even think about it and wait for another explanation cause when it clicks you won't believe how easy it is. Anyways its how I wish it was described to me right off.


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## msgtdan

The easiest one for me was to grap the string and twist it tighter, that's your serving direction.


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## chaostheory

Same here. It doesn't matter which way the string was twisted or which direction you are serving. Which ever direction you are serving the twists in the string should be "tightening"


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## Anynamewilldo

I guess easy is in the eye of the beholder. Since I made the string and its still on the jig I don't even have to look at the string. As long as it was twisted clockwise I know which way to go as Im walking up. Now that i understand which way to go your way seams easy to.


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## Rudyonthefly

I have been following this thread from the beginning. Great idea, btw! Below is my interpretation of your idea. The only thing "new" on the jig is the unistrut and the hardware, everything else came from the scrap yard (incl. the $3.00, 700lb winch and the shelving "beam" - the orange piece of metal under the unistrut for extra strenght). For now I'm using a heavy spring scale; I have the compression spring on order. I will start with repairing some of my old strings' end servings before I take the "full plunge" into making my own full set of cable and strings.



















Thanks for the inspiration!

Cheers, Rudy


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Well I just figured out how to eliminate the slack caused by the spring. a little different than your method as my jigs a little different. Just ran the nail guide I have all the way in and a little farther till there was enough pressure on the spring that I couldn't move it by pulling on the tag ends. Was no slack on the first strands after laying up. Also didn't like where post were for tying off and found the 4 post jig that has to much flex if you run 24 strands around it is awesome position for tying off and holding tag ends out of the way. Every thing to seam to be solid and no slack and easier to do. Hats off tho to the pros that are building a 3 piece set in 1 hr. or so. Im getting faster but man that seam real fast with layout,tag ends,twisting and serving. Think a layout tool is in the near future.


----------



## Huntinsker

Rudyonthefly said:


> I have been following this thread from the beginning. Great idea, btw! Below is my interpretation of your idea. The only thing "new" on the jig is the unistrut and the hardware, everything else came from the scrap yard (incl. the $3.00, 700lb winch and the shelving "beam" - the orange piece of metal under the unistrut for extra strenght). For now I'm using a heavy spring scale; I have the compression spring on order. I will start with repairing some of my old strings' end servings before I take the "full plunge" into making my own full set of cable and strings.
> View attachment 1796889
> View attachment 1796890
> View attachment 1796891
> 
> Thanks for the inspiration!
> 
> Cheers, Rudy


Hey man that looks great! Can't beat the price either! Good work :thumbs_up


----------



## jim p

OK. I just have to ask about the serving direction.

I stand at the end of the string and I start twisting the device that holds the string clockwise to twist the string bundles. 

When I serve away from the post or toward the post I move the server in a clockwise rotation around the string. As viewed from the rear of the server.

When I serve the center serving, I always move the server in a clockwise direction no matter if I am serving toward the bottom cam or the top cam. As viewed from the rear of the server.

When I put the idler wheel serving on I do it the same as the center serving.

I always stand behind the server and the server is moving away from me. The server is always going in a clockwise direction as viewed from the rear.

So am I serving correctly or just backwards or some right and some wrong?


----------



## Huntinsker

jim p said:


> OK. I just have to ask about the serving direction.
> 
> I stand at the end of the string and I start twisting the device that holds the string clockwise to twist the string bundles.
> 
> When I serve away from the post or toward the post I move the server in a clockwise rotation around the string. As viewed from the rear of the server.
> 
> When I serve the center serving, I always move the server in a clockwise direction no matter if I am serving toward the bottom cam or the top cam. As viewed from the rear of the server.
> 
> When I put the idler wheel serving on I do it the same as the center serving.
> 
> I always stand behind the server and the server is moving away from me. The server is always going in a clockwise direction as viewed from the rear.
> 
> So am I serving correctly or just backwards or some right and some wrong?


Sounds right to me. You basically want the serving to lay out in the same direction you served and that's what you're doing in all cases. The best thing to do is to figure it out and then use that method all the time. I always serve everything in the same order......bottom string serving, string stop serving, idler serving, top serving and then the center serving. I go towards the bottom loop the first time and then serve everything else running from bottom to top going up the string. It helps my simple mind not make a dumb mistake lol!


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Now that you got that you can also see what they mean by always have it twisting tighter in front of the serving.


----------



## jim p

This is a wonderful thread and it has many tips in it that I will use on my next string.


----------



## Huntinsker

jim p said:


> This is a wonderful thread and it has many tips in it that I will use on my next string.


Thank you. I'm glad you find it helpful/useful.


----------



## jim p

I usually serve the bottom and then the top end. Then I serve the center then the idler and the string stop last.

I wonder if there is a best sequence for serving. Would it make sense to start at one end and go in sequence to the other end. Would this force any string twisting caused by serving to be forced to the last end served. Would this possibly help with keeping a string stable?

Maybe it would be best to do the two end serving first. This would keep the forces symmetrical. Then serve the center and the string stop going toward the bottom serving and then serve the idler wheel going toward the top serving. Is there a way to keep the serving forces symmetrical in the string and would it make a difference?


----------



## Anynamewilldo

I think the string clamp huntinsker made in this thread would be a help. I made and use one and like it.


----------



## K.G.K.

BTW...the concept for string building for a crossbow is the same. There are better choices for string material and serving and I use a spring that enables me to exceed 350lbs of tension; although I spoke to a BCY rep who gave me the formula to build a crossbow string with 452x and .014 serving and 62x center. He siad they will wear out sooner. The main concern is really the center serving, but my buddy barley uses his crossbow in a year so I was confident that it will last a long time. Otherwise, BCY has crossbow specific string and serving if you do enough of it to make it worth your while to purchase it.

I'm not a crossbow user, but I shot my buddy's about 50 shots tuning it in, and saw zero sign of wear with the 452x and stated servings. Kind of fun to change it up.

GREAT THREAD!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> BTW...the concept for string building for a crossbow is the same. There are better choices for string material and serving and I use a spring that enables me to exceed 350lbs of tension; although I spoke to a BCY rep who gave me the formula to build a crossbow string with 452x and .014 serving and 62x center. He siad they will wear out sooner. The main concern is really the center serving, but my buddy barley uses his crossbow in a year so I was confident that it will last a long time. Otherwise, BCY has crossbow specific string and serving if you do enough of it to make it worth your while to purchase it.
> 
> I'm not a crossbow user, but I shot my buddy's about 50 shots tuning it in, and saw zero sign of wear with the 452x and stated servings. Kind of fun to change it up.
> 
> GREAT THREAD!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks for the info. I got a PM back from a crossbow string maker. He gave me his phone number and told me to call him that weekend but I had to be out of town for an in-law family event so I didn't have a chance to call him.


----------



## zanon

how many twists do you put on each leg?do you put it clockwise or counter clockwise?thank you



4. Add equal number of twists to each individual yoke legs and re-measure at 100lbs until you get the same measurement that you did while they were still twisted around one another.


----------



## upatree

I'm sure there is a reason, but why do you need all thread at both ends of the jig? Couldn't one end be a solid post?


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Well finally got to shoot today. Took 10 shots with no peep and then put peep in and shot about 30 shots. I know thats not much but peep barely moved just a fraction. Not even enough adjust string or d loop. Have to see how it does after time.


----------



## Huntinsker

zanon said:


> how many twists do you put on each leg?do you put it clockwise or counter clockwise?thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Add equal number of twists to each individual yoke legs and re-measure at 100lbs until you get the same measurement that you did while they were still twisted around one another.


How many twists you put in is dependent on what your measurement was before you separated the color bundles and measured at 100lbs. The length of your yoke legs will be a factor in how many you need and the initial twist rate of the cable will also be a variable. Generally I just put in equal numbers on each one until the length at 100lbs is again equal to what it was before I separated the individual yoke legs. 

You would twist them the same way you twist the string. For me and my method, that is clockwise. If you stood above the jig on the non-sprung end, where I twist from, and looked toward the other end, you'd twist in a clockwise direction from that point of view.


----------



## Huntinsker

upatree said:


> I'm sure there is a reason, but why do you need all thread at both ends of the jig? Couldn't one end be a solid post?


That's a good question and it probably could be a solid post. However the way we use the spring as a calibrated "scale" the post has to move fractions of an inch for the spring to compress and show us what tension we are achieving. If you wanted a solid post, you'd have to put the spring or some sort of scale between the post and the string so that the string could be stretched while the scale takes the tension.


----------



## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> Well finally got to shoot today. Took 10 shots with no peep and then put peep in and shot about 30 shots. I know thats not much but peep barely moved just a fraction. Not even enough adjust string or d loop. Have to see how it does after time.


Hey man that's awesome. I've installed a lot of "custom" strings for customers that took more shooting than that to settle. Good work!


----------



## Dilligaf

Just read this thread great stuff.

Thought I would share my setup, easily gets out to 450lbs.
The stretchers will rotate separately to the tensioning.


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Not sure if its settled yet,need to shoot more but at least its not twirling like a top  I have a accomplice 32 I just made string for and the post on the cables are different size on each end so I made one end 1/2" and the other 5/8". Is this to picky? Do you guys have a set size for most unless its one of those big ones like the yokes on the mathews?


----------



## Huntinsker

Nice Diligaf! Looks rock solid. 

Anynamewilldo, I don't necessarily have a set loop size. Some charts that I've seen show anywhere from 1/2" 5/8" to 7/8". I usually just make the loops equal sized unless I know they need to be different. I make the yoke leg loops 7/8" so that they fit over the bushings but everything else is 1/2-5/8" mostly.


----------



## Bots bowbender

Hi Huntinsker please let me know where you got that clear serving thread from and what size did you use to do the servings looks very cool



Huntinsker said:


> Here's another one that I made for a young lady's Diamond Razor Edge. Her dad brought her bow in to the shop and my buddy working on it was taking it out of the press but the cable jumped off the module and cut the serving and a strand of string. He paid for me to make her a new string and she wanted green and pink. Not flo green, grass green she said. I surprised her with clear serving which she got a huge kick out of since she had never seen it before. It was awesome handing her back her bow and seeing her face light up like that. It's really nice to see a teenage girl getting excited about archery!
> 
> View attachment 1761456
> View attachment 1761457
> View attachment 1761458


----------



## Huntinsker

Bots bowbender said:


> Hi Huntinsker please let me know where you got that clear serving thread from and what size did you use to do the servings looks very cool


The clear serving is actually white .014 Halo. When you serve white serving under high tension, it turns clear.


----------



## Gauvinra

First of all great thread! im in the process of building my jig and just received the spring in the mail yesterday. I decided to take it into work and "calibrate" the poundage versus length on an instron machine. I though this may help a few people out. here is the data.

0 lbs - 2"
100 lbs - 1.8237"
200 lbs - 1.6480"
300 lbs - 1.4732"
350 lbs - 1.3887"

This could help when creating a gauge. Cant wait to try the jig out. 

Rich


----------



## Huntinsker

Gauvinra said:


> First of all great thread! im in the process of building my jig and just received the spring in the mail yesterday. I decided to take it into work and "calibrate" the poundage versus length on an instron machine. I though this may help a few people out. here is the data.
> 
> 0 lbs - 2"
> 100 lbs - 1.8237"
> 200 lbs - 1.6480"
> 300 lbs - 1.4732"
> 350 lbs - 1.3887"
> 
> This could help when creating a gauge. Cant wait to try the jig out.
> 
> Rich
> 
> View attachment 1806223


That's awesome! Thanks for posting that up. I'm going to put my scale back on and use my calipers to measure again. Before I was using a tap measure because I couldn't find the calipers after I moved.


----------



## prozko

great


----------



## automan26

I haven't been able to upload pics for over a year now and it really put a cramp in my style, but I think I have figured out a way to git'er dun, so here goes. I built a test string to see what it would look like and I think I am going to build a set for my Sentinel. I think this sting with lime green serving on a bow with black limbs is going to really rock. I took the pic with my Samsung Tab 3 and the quality sucks, but you can still get a good idea of what it should look like. When sunlight hits this string it glows like neon.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Looks great automan! I'm going to do a flo green/silver primary with black pin stripes for my "summer" set. Should look pretty decent I think.


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## Huntinsker

Well guys I can not for the life of me get a video to upload on the internet. Every time I try to put one on youtube or vimeo it says that it's going to take hours to finish the upload and then an error occurs. I was trying to upload a video hopefully clarifying the serving direction confusion. I'll keep trying to figure it out. Hopefully everyone is making some awesome stings!


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## Huntinsker

Got a video up. Right after I loaded my video, another popped up by b0w bender that probably does a better job of explaining than I do. I'll give links to both. I kind of feel dumb that I didn't see this other video sooner. 

Mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhjWGTA3rBA&feature=youtu.be

b0w bender's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50TF2sM-1UQ


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## zanon

Well done huntinsker,the video is simply amazing.Thank you


----------



## Huntinsker

zanon said:


> Well done huntinsker,the video is simply amazing.Thank you


Thanks. I had a great plan to have my wife film me while I did it and explain things along the way but that didn't work out. I'm glad it was good enough to helped.


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## deputy83

Here is my jig and first attempt....


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## Huntinsker

deputy83 said:


> Here is my jig and first attempt....
> 
> View attachment 1810688


Looks good. May need to adjust the spool holders a bit so they don't get in the way of your serving jig as it rotates. Other than that, it should do the job nicely. :thumbs_up


----------



## deputy83

They are just there for show I move them to the other end and out of the way. I am trying to come up with and idea to hold things like pliers...lighter...knife...hemostats...and my ratchet.


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## deputy83

Few more...


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## Huntinsker

Looks good deputy83. The tag end loop on that string seems to be nice and tight.


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## deputy83

Finished product! Still have to bring it all to spec and tune but they are on. Hope to find out soon if they are going to last!


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## Huntinsker

Those look great! Good color combo and a pretty complicated set for your first. Well done :thumbs_up


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## deputy83

Thanks!!! Pretty easy when you have a great tutorial like this one!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

deputy83 said:


> Thanks!!! Pretty easy when you have a great tutorial like this one!!!


That's great! Automan26 and I were hoping to take some of the mystery out of this part of archery. I'm glad it's helpful.


----------



## deputy83

Absolutely...The help I received from both of ya'll was amazing!


----------



## aaron.sterud

Tagged for later


----------



## automan26

Huntinsker and I both share the desire to see string building become as common as fletching your own arrows. I am thankful that he started this thread and it excites me to see so many guys getting started. For those who are on the edge of taking the plunge I strongly encourage you to go for it. You will find that this is highly addictive so beware.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

A simple red and black I did. Hopefully everyone is having fun building strings! Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## Randyz7

Saved best thread ever


----------



## danielandersen2

Randyz7 said:


> Saved best thread ever


Pun intended?


----------



## Huntinsker

Randyz7 said:


> Saved best thread ever


Thanks. Glad you like it. If you make a jig and some strings, post some pics of it. We'd love to see what you come up with.


----------



## Steve Jo

Thanks for an amazing tutorial. Picked up some unistrut yesterday and will be assembling my bill of materials for the build over the next month or so as finances allow. Ill be sure to post pictures when complete.


----------



## gene2000

How much does it cost to make one of these units? I would like to make one too.


----------



## Huntinsker

gene2000 said:


> How much does it cost to make one of these units? I would like to make one too.


It ranges depending on how much your local hardware store charges. If you use 1 length of strut instead of 2 and bolt that 1 piece to a 2x4 or 2x6 on its edge, it'll be cheaper. I used 2 because it was smaller and cleaner (I live in an apartment and build in my living room). Before the strut, my jig and string clamps came to just over $100. The strut was just under $20 a piece from Home Depot for me. So all said and done you could probably do it for about $140-170 range again depending on prices of hardware in your area.


----------



## automan26

I just put these on. Tomorrow I get to take them to the range and have some fun.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> View attachment 1822911
> 
> 
> I just put these on. Tomorrow I get to take them to the range and have some fun.
> 
> Automan


Those look sweet Automan!


----------



## cubsfan

I am going to start making one of these this week. I can't wait!


----------



## Huntinsker

cubsfan said:


> I am going to start making one of these this week. I can't wait!


Awesome! Make sure to post a pic


----------



## ShawnRees

automan26 said:


> View attachment 1822911
> 
> 
> I just put these on. Tomorrow I get to take them to the range and have some fun.
> 
> Automan


Now, here's a string set made by some talent.


----------



## Anynamewilldo

My first pinstripe. Using colors from end of spools so I know colors could have been better.


----------



## elkbow69

WOW, that is very impressive! That looks great!


----------



## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> My first pinstripe. Using colors from end of spools so I know colors could have been better.


Outstanding!!! That looks great and I actually like those colors.


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Ty. Pinstripe aside I think the build its self is the best Ive done. The burnishing was better. This is trophy so I don't know if that was some of it. Only done 8190 till now.


----------



## redyak3

Nice work indeed guys!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

So I got a pm today about how I serve the strings if I go by hand or with a power server of some sort. It made me realize that I have mentioned my version of b0w bender's NW spinner but I've never shown it. Here's my much less nice version of the NW Spinner. b0w bender's is much nicer than mine and if you want something like this but don't have router or band saw to cut one out, I definitely recommend ordering one from him.


----------



## Anynamewilldo

I agree. For the budget minded the spinner is awesome and well worth the money. Got that by my second set and there no comparison to doing it by hand.


----------



## deputy83

So do those spinners clear between the string and unistrut?


----------



## Anynamewilldo

I have the one for the beiter. Its 7 1/2" across. So going from center you need a least 4" of clearance.


----------



## Huntinsker

Mine clears easily with the steel bar that I have my jig posts mounted to. If you use just the 2 corner brackets it gets pretty tight. I don't think an NW Spinner would fit but I'm not for sure.


----------



## deputy83

I have the el cheapo...that's what I was afraid of...


----------



## Huntinsker

deputy83 said:


> I have the el cheapo...that's what I was afraid of...


The Outer Limit moto server would work but it's not cheap. http://www.outerlimitarchery.com/moto-serving-jig.html
The thing I don't care for on the moto server is the bounce that it creates while going around the string but lots of people use them with pretty good results.


----------



## Mordekyle

Huntinsker said:


> If you use just the 2 corner brackets it gets pretty tight. I don't think an NW Spinner would fit but I'm not for sure.


NW Spinner will not fit with the corner brackets. In fact, to get more room for the serving jig, I wedge a 1/4# roll of Trophy between the string and the strut.


----------



## Huntinsker

Mordekyle said:


> NW Spinner will not fit with the corner brackets. In fact, to get more room for the serving jig, I wedge a 1/4# roll of Trophy between the string and the strut.


Thanks, that's good info to know.


----------



## broadheadnut

i have a moto server and i love it...... serves faster than some much high dollar machines.


----------



## straddleridge

*comprehensive string thread*

This is my winder. If you have a beiter winder and an variable speed electric drill - this cost about $8 for the beiter extender.

Not my original idea. copied it from an old post and i cant remember the op.









it works very well


----------



## Huntinsker

Red/Flo Yellow with dual black pin stripes for my cousin's Genesis he's getting for Christmas. Blue/Flo Orange for a buddy.


----------



## Steve Jo

Is there a reference for serving lengths and locations for strings and cables?


----------



## chenashot

Steve Jo said:


> Is there a reference for serving lengths and locations for strings and cables?


Check out this thread. All of the builders go here to swap info. If you can't find the bow specs you are looking for, just post up make and model and ask. Someone will have all of the layout and serving specs for you. Pretty awesome thread: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Nice threads hunting.


----------



## Steve Jo

Thanks Chenashot.
Found the specs I need. Any idea on how to decipher it?

I'm assuming it reads left to right as the string being bottom to top?
Serve From 0-8" then center serve @ 28 through 32" then serve 47 through 64.5" and then finish with the last 8"? 

String 97 3/4*	
0-18---28--32----47--64 1/2---8--0*	

cable 40 3/16* 
0--9 ---split 8--10	

Thanks!


----------



## chenashot

Steve Jo said:


> Thanks Chenashot.
> Found the specs I need. Any idea on how to decipher it?
> 
> I'm assuming it reads left to right as the string being bottom to top?
> Serve From 0-8" then center serve @ 28 through 32" then serve 47 through 64.5" and then finish with the last 8"?
> 
> String 97 3/4*
> 0-18---28--32----47--64 1/2---8--0*
> 
> cable 40 3/16*
> 0--9 ---split 8--10
> 
> Thanks!


No problem man. Yep, that is exactly right on reading those numbers


----------



## Steve Jo

Thank much!


----------



## Steve Jo

Got my jig done today. Huge thanks to Huntzinger for the tutorial









I did a little different take on the jigs. I used 3/4 black pipe with a T for the housing. Then found a copper 3/4 to 1/2" reducer that fits hold the shaft fairly tight. The shaft is a 1-" carriage bolt and the shoulder is all within the housing, so it makes turning pretty easy.
Finally put wings on the tension nut. Can get to 300 pounds turning by hand most of the time, have to occasionally use a cresent wrench. Very little binding.

For serving, I am using two spring clamps about 12" apart. their weight is more than enough to keep the string from rotating and the rubber protected tips keep the string firmly clamped without deforming


----------



## Huntinsker

Steve Jo said:


> Got my jig done today. Huge thanks to Huntzinger for the tutorial
> 
> View attachment 1835002
> 
> 
> I did a little different take on the jigs. I used 3/4 black pipe with a T for the housing. Then found a copper 3/4 to 1/2" reducer that fits hold the shaft fairly tight. The shaft is a 1-" carriage bolt and the shoulder is all within the housing, so it makes turning pretty easy.
> Finally put wings on the tension nut. Can get to 300 pounds turning by hand most of the time, have to occasionally use a cresent wrench. Very little binding.
> 
> For serving, I am using two spring clamps about 12" apart. their weight is more than enough to keep the string from rotating and the rubber protected tips keep the string firmly clamped without deforming
> 
> View attachment 1835004


Very nice work. I like the pipe modification. A great way to get some extra height on your posts if you don't have access to the steel bar. Also a great way to house the threaded rod and keep it from binding. Good job and thanks for posting a picture! Pretty soon we'll have enough modifications that something should work for everyone that reads through this thread.


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Do you mind a better pic or two of the jig? Looks interesting.


----------



## Steve Jo

Here is a better picture of the top jig head. The bottom head is identical with the exception of the blue mcmaster carr spring.

The wing nut on the body of the T connection is for quickly starting or finishing the tag end. There are 2 on each jig head. 

The copper reducers thread right into the 3/4" T. It has a nipple on it, I left this intact on the string side of the jig, but it had to go on the handle side to allow the fender washer to sit flush, plenty of wear material inside still. It is this >< tight on the 1/2" side and needs to be 'custom fitted to the carriage bolt with a round file or hawg bit on a drill. Makes for a realy good bushing though and is easily replaced if it ever wears out.

It all stays very level and spins with a finger even under load.

I dropped the string side nut from the shaft, didnt know what it was for and going to a full shoulder carriage bolt seemed like a good direction necessitating the sacrifice. Built my first set tonight and did not run into a scemario where I needed it, but still new to the process.

All built with a hand drill, hack saw and doublemill ******* file in about 2 hours.

Excellent tutorial here. Top notch stuff!


----------



## mdhunt

Just wanted to drop in and say thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I haven't shot in years, but my son showed interest recently so I bought him a bow and dusted mine off and started tuning it up. I noticed that the cables were looking bad and the string wasn't safe to shoot. Thanks to you guys I built a new bowstring jig, ordered up some blue and flo. orange to make a nice Auburn colored set of cables and bow string. A week of spare time later and my bow is shooting faster and quieter then it ever has. 

It's been a long time since I have made cables or a bowstring, but you guys filled in the blanks nicely, again thanks for the great info!

Keep em in the bullseye!
-Dave


----------



## km04

This thread is fantastic!


----------



## automan26

Notice the cool series of dark bands around this length of serving. This is the result from using a spool of serving thread which was stained and ruined by the manufacturer. I think I might experiment a bit and see if I can reproduce this effect so it is more consistent. It might have potential and be worth spending time on.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Steve Jo said:


> Here is a better picture of the top jig head. The bottom head is identical with the exception of the blue mcmaster carr spring.
> 
> The wing nut on the body of the T connection is for quickly starting or finishing the tag end. There are 2 on each jig head.
> 
> The copper reducers thread right into the 3/4" T. It has a nipple on it, I left this intact on the string side of the jig, but it had to go on the handle side to allow the fender washer to sit flush, plenty of wear material inside still. It is this >< tight on the 1/2" side and needs to be 'custom fitted to the carriage bolt with a round file or hawg bit on a drill. Makes for a realy good bushing though and is easily replaced if it ever wears out.
> 
> It all stays very level and spins with a finger even under load.
> 
> I dropped the string side nut from the shaft, didnt know what it was for and going to a full shoulder carriage bolt seemed like a good direction necessitating the sacrifice. Built my first set tonight and did not run into a scemario where I needed it, but still new to the process.
> 
> All built with a hand drill, hack saw and doublemill ******* file in about 2 hours.
> 
> Excellent tutorial here. Top notch stuff!


That's great stuff and exactly what this thread is about. I love this modification! Thank you for posting.


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> View attachment 1835255
> 
> 
> Notice the cool series of dark bands around this length of serving. This is the result from using a spool of serving thread which was stained and ruined by the manufacturer. I think I might experiment a bit and see if I can reproduce this effect so it is more consistent. It might have potential and be worth spending time on.
> 
> Automan


That's pretty cool. I don't know if I could make myself intentionally stain serving with how much it costs haha. Would be neat if a company could make a dual colored spool to order. Red/Black lines striped across the spool would make a neat design.


----------



## Anynamewilldo

Anynamewilldo said:


> Nice threads hunting.


Supposed to say nice threads huntin(huntinsker) but spell check got me.


----------



## Steve Jo

Huntinsker said:


> That's great stuff and exactly what this thread is about. I love this modification! Thank you for posting.


Thank YOU Huntinsker! Would not have even tried this without this post.


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## Huntinsker

Thanks guys. Glad that this thread is helpful.


----------



## Raymond 1

This is a very nice thread. There is a great deal of information that has been made available to us all here. I thank you for doing this.
Raymond


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## automan26

What do you get when you combine a Sharpie, Berkley Spiderwire, and a school teacher with way too much Christmas vacation on his hands? 

This was an interesting experiment. By coloring 1/3 of a spool of serving using a marker of some sort, you can produce an interesting band effect when the serving is wound on the string. This effect would have come out much better except for the fact that I wound the Spiderwire on the spool by hand and it did not lay out as smoothly as it would have if it had been machine-wound.

Automan


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## redyak3

automan26 said:


> View attachment 1835699
> 
> 
> What do you get when you combine a Sharpie, Berkley Spiderwire, and a school teacher with way too much Christmas vacation on his hands?
> 
> This was an interesting experiment. By coloring 1/3 of a spool of serving using a marker of some sort, you can produce an interesting band effect when the serving is wound on the string. This effect would have come out much better except for the fact that I wound the Spiderwire on the spool by hand and it did not lay out as smoothly as it would have if it had been machine-wound.
> 
> Automan


Nice Automan, I like it. If one colored a machine wound spool of 3D, the "banding effect" would result. Looking at the pic, about the spigarelli, I love mine btw, I placed the nylon bushing next to the tensioning nut per their youtube vid, wondering if I misunderstood their tutorial. Thanks for everything! the El-Cheapo-Deluxe is working just fine


----------



## automan26

redyak3 said:


> Nice Automan, I like it. If one colored a machine wound spool of 3D, the "banding effect" would result. Looking at the pic, about the spigarelli, I love mine btw, I placed the nylon bushing next to the tensioning nut per their youtube vid, wondering if I misunderstood their tutorial. Thanks for everything! the El-Cheapo-Deluxe is working just fine


Over the years I have assembled the Spigarelli in every wrong way conceivable and it worked well no matter how I put it together. I have found that if the nylon spacer is placed next to the spool, the jig runs smooth as butter. Also, from the way the jig is constructed it seems only natural for the spacer to go next to the spool. Try it this way and see if you like it better. I'll bet you do. ;-}

Automan


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## automan26

Man, this hurts. What you are seeing is the best looking garbage I have seen in a long time. I have two Bowtech Sentinels, a 2009 with rollers and a 2010 with the FLX. The specs (ATA and BH) on both bows are the same, so I was not surprised that the string lengths listed for both bows were the same--63". The cable spec on the FLX was 1/4" longer than the cable on the 2009 bow, but since the cable guards were different, I could understand the difference in cable lengths. Previously, I built threads for the 09 Sentinel and they fit like a glove; the spec chart was right on. I just finished building the set in the pic for the Sentinel FLX but these threads were way too short. I measured the string for the FLX and discovered that it was 3/8" longer than the spec chart (63 3/8" not 63"). I pulled out my string for the 2009 bow and it measured 63", spot-on. Bowtech changed something and forgot to tell anyone. The factory cables on the FLX also measured 1/4" longer than the spec chart. I assumed that the same bows, using the same specs, calling for the same string lengths would be the same--NOT!!!!!

Always remember---Don't be too quick to toss those factory strings (you may be referring back to them if if you have problems) and, if possible, measure the old strings before you start building new ones or you may be tossing out some beautiful strings. I assumed that the threads on one bow would be the same as the threads on a nearly identical bow and got burned. At least now I have something to tie down the lid on my garbage can so the wind doesn't blow it away again.

Automan


----------



## sb220

Im having trouble with the tag ends...My first 5 or so tag loops, I cant pull very tight without the strand bundle "rolling over" itself, creating a mess. Now after the first five loops of carefully "snug" tension, I can begin to pull the rest of the loops tighter without worry. Its worked, but I don't think Im doing something right.


----------



## automan26

sb220 said:


> Im having trouble with the tag ends...My first 5 or so tag loops, I cant pull very tight without the strand bundle "rolling over" itself, creating a mess. Now after the first five loops of carefully "snug" tension, I can begin to pull the rest of the loops tighter without worry. Its worked, but I don't think Im doing something right.


Instead of allowing the tag ends to wrap around the jig post in their natural direction, twist them once around each other, thus reversing the direction of travel around the post and then begin wrapping the loop as you would normally. This works for me; see if this solves your problem.

Automan


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## sb220

automan26 said:


> Instead of allowing the tag ends to wrap around the jig post in their natural direction, twist them once around each other, thus reversing the direction of travel around the post and then begin wrapping the loop as you would normally. This works for me; see if this solves your problem.
> 
> Automan


So You are saying to cross them and take the tag-end back the way it came...like so?


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## automan26

That looks like what I was trying to explain.

Automan


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## sb220

Great Ill try it, thanks


----------



## experteric

just as a question, how much wold a set of cables and strings cost if you built them, all black, for a Team Fitz?
this only applies if you would be willing to make them for other people.


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## Anynamewilldo

Whats a team fitz?


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Instead of allowing the tag ends to wrap around the jig post in their natural direction, twist them once around each other, thus reversing the direction of travel around the post and then begin wrapping the loop as you would normally. This works for me; see if this solves your problem.
> 
> Automan


That's a great tip Automan. I had that trouble too and found that if I put the bottom tag end up to the top of the bottom color, in between the two colors before crossing it to the other side, the bundles didn't roll near as much. Then it was a matter of pulling carefully for the first few wraps and make sure to overlap them as much as possible so they didn't separate. I'll try this trick on a set that I'm making this week.


----------



## sb220

Huntinsker said:


> That's a great tip Automan. I had that trouble too and found that if I put the bottom tag end up to the top of the bottom color, in between the two colors before crossing it to the other side, the bundles didn't roll near as much. Then it was a matter of pulling carefully for the first few wraps and make sure to overlap them as much as possible so they didn't separate. I'll try this trick on a set that I'm making this week.


I did it on a little practice string (waiting on material) and it seemed to help. The first wrap will still roll, but after that first wrap it seemed I could pull the rest of them as tight as I wanted


----------



## Huntinsker

experteric said:


> just as a question, how much wold a set of cables and strings cost if you built them, all black, for a Team Fitz?
> this only applies if you would be willing to make them for other people.


That depends on who the "you" is you're talking about. We can't sell on this thread and most of the people on here aren't AT dealers so it would have to just stay a hypothetical. The amount depends on a lot of things. Harnessing style like single cam vs hybrid vs dual cam or even special stuff like the Monster series or Prime bows typically have different prices for different reasons. Also the materials used and time put into each set plays a par. 

I've seen prices range from $40 to $100 from the dealers on here depending on what you want. Most good quality sets will be in the $65-$90 range. I don't charge my buddies that much but they don't argue much when I need help dragging a deer either. 

Now if you're wondering about "you" as in yourself if you were to start building, a good estimate for most sets is about 11-15 dollars of materials in a full set. Then whatever your time means to you.


----------



## Huntinsker

sb220 said:


> I did it on a little practice string (waiting on material) and it seemed to help. The first wrap will still roll, but after that first wrap it seemed I could pull the rest of them as tight as I wanted


Good to know. One thing that may help is that on your first wrap or two, instead of pulling hard straight back to slide the tag ends around the post, pull sideways like you were going to cross them again. That way they come to the back and get snug against each other without rolling the bundle.


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## sb220

yeah I was doing that for the first time also. Caught it in one of your posts reading this thread a couple days ago


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## redbone311

Very impressive. Nice job. Thank you.


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## Maximus10127

Ok I'm officially hooked! This thread is awesome and has great info! I've always thought it would be beat to do and now that I broke my ankle on Sunday I might just have to start building a string jig! My dream is to open a sporting goods store and this would be a nice addition to set up some custom bows for people! If anyone lives in New Jersey id love to try it out once before building. Thanks again off all the great info. Who knows if I can get a buddy to help me out I might just have to do it anyway.


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## Huntinsker

Maximus10127 said:


> Ok I'm officially hooked! This thread is awesome and has great info! I've always thought it would be beat to do and now that I broke my ankle on Sunday I might just have to start building a string jig! My dream is to open a sporting goods store and this would be a nice addition to set up some custom bows for people! If anyone lives in New Jersey id love to try it out once before building. Thanks again off all the great info. Who knows if I can get a buddy to help me out I might just have to do it anyway.


That's great. Hopefully your ankle will heal quickly and you'll be putting threads on all your friends bows in no time.


----------



## Maximus10127

Just out of curiosity what's a good average length for a compound string? I'm pretty sure my recurve is almost 60 inches but wondering how long to make the jig. It will be adjustable but I'm thinking of using some 1.5 inch square tube as a base with a stationary tower holding the stretching assembly similar to your design and have a moveable section on the opposite side that will bolt down. Just trying to get a idea sorry guys. I ask to many questions some times


----------



## nuts&bolts

Maximus10127 said:


> Just out of curiosity what's a good average length for a compound string? I'm pretty sure my recurve is almost 60 inches but wondering how long to make the jig. It will be adjustable but I'm thinking of using some 1.5 inch square tube as a base with a stationary tower holding the stretching assembly similar to your design and have a moveable section on the opposite side that will bolt down. Just trying to get a idea sorry guys. I ask to many questions some times


Single cam string can be 90-inches roughly,
so a 10 foot backbone would be a good idea...or even longer.

Unistrut channel is much more handy.

Clamp the unistrut to a long workbench,
and the unistrut will not bend.


----------



## Huntinsker

Maximus10127 said:


> Just out of curiosity what's a good average length for a compound string? I'm pretty sure my recurve is almost 60 inches but wondering how long to make the jig. It will be adjustable but I'm thinking of using some 1.5 inch square tube as a base with a stationary tower holding the stretching assembly similar to your design and have a moveable section on the opposite side that will bolt down. Just trying to get a idea sorry guys. I ask to many questions some times


Nuts is right. A 10' strut is what you need for single cams. My Anarchy string is just over 99" long. I've seen some that are over 100" and you need that length to make those strings. For long strings like that, it's very important that you reinforce your strut so that it doesn't bend under the tension. I started using one 10' strut but when I put my string under 300lbs of tension, the strut began to bow a lot more than expected. I got a second strut and bolted it to the bottom to increase rigidity. I did that to keep my jig mobile but mounting it to a bench would be the best option if you have a dedicated space.


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## Maximus10127

Hmmm thanks guys. I have a bear encounter so I would definitely need the 10 foot backbone. Oh and I'm just a tad jealous! I couldn't afford the anarchy but that's my goal for sure! My wife also has a diamond by bowtech also a single cam so I know where I stand on that. She wants purple strings!

Nuts and bolts. I should hopefully be putting in an order for that DVD soon. I just wish I knew more people with compounds to start tuning and making strings for. Most of my friends all shoot recurve a for fun. I'm the only hunter. 

Thanks again guys back to the sketch pad for some tweaking.


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## Steve Jo

My conquest string is 103, that's as long as I've seen


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## buddy13

i just made a jig like your so if i follow your instructions i wil get no peep rotation??By the way thankyou for your wonderful thread.I been making strings for my long bow and recurves but been buying the zeb twist stings for my hi tech bows..WHAT IS A COUNTER ROTAIONAL STRING AND WHAT DOES IT ACOMPLISH .


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## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> i just made a jig like your so if i follow your instructions i wil get no peep rotation??By the way thankyou for your wonderful thread.I been making strings for my long bow and recurves but been buying the zeb twist stings for my hi tech bows..WHAT IS A COUNTER ROTAIONAL STRING AND WHAT DOES IT ACOMPLISH .


No guarantee that you won't get peep rotation. You have the tools and a pretty good set of instruction but there is a lot of technique involved. You still need to lay out the bundles with consistent tension, serve tightly but not too tight, serve the right direction, stretch it properly and then finally install the peep correctly. 

I'm not sure what you mean by a counter rotational string. You can twist a string clockwise or counter clockwise, depending on your perspective, and they will function the same as long as you change your serving direction accordingly. The twist just makes the string look nice, adds strength and keeps the strands together in a nice bundle.


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## buddy13

Thanks for get back to me new to this,Again thanks for the great step by step,I have been making strings for years have bobbins tons serving material..But again never made one for my newer bows never put 300 lbs on a string. Never thought I could make a string or how to make one that I could put a peep in with out a bungie and keep it straight.I actually made one one time for my drenalin and took it off pretty fast but just made it on a little 4 post jig like i always used.So as I understand you serve so that it is actually would be tightening the twists[if you let it] rather than loosening the twists.Correct me if I am wrong I am going to make those string holders like you have.Hope I can do this its definitly a challenge.So these newer strings that allow the peep to stay straight or a predicatable 1/32 turn twist what makes this possible in other words weight put on the string and correct serving direction?? thanks a bunch actual nervous about making one.


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## Huntinsker

In my opinion the 2 biggest factors in string twist and peep rotation is first properly and consistently laying out the bundles so that they have even tension and secondly an adequate stretch and relaxation period before installing the string. If one bundle is laid out looser than the other, it is essentially longer. When on the bow, the shorter bundle will take more of the weight so the string will twist away from that bundle. That will happen every time the bow is drawn. If the string isn't stretched long enough or at all, allowing the bundles to equalize in length and tension, the string will twist a little on every shot until they equalize from being shot on the bow. That could take a few hundred shots or more depending on how uneven the bundles are. If you can minimize those to problems, making a stable string is very possible.


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## buddy13

Thanks guys ,,Two days in my buddy's metal shop paints drying on jig as we speak.With this thread which is excellent, I think after I get the spring.The help from you guys I will be making nice looking strings soon.Tied flies and a comercial fishermensince I was young so I think I can do this.


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## Maximus10127

Good luck with it man. Lookin forward to pics. My sister hooked me up with some free steel for a backbone from the metal shop she works for so hopefully soon enough I'll be making some too


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## buddy13

i think i figured out how to put pics up heres the jig less the spring and the track.....






i will tweek it as i go along 7/16 grade 8 bolts cold bent to hold the string


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## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> i think i figured out how to put pics up heres the jig less the spring and the track.....
> View attachment 1849907
> i will tweek it as i go along 7/16 grade 8 bolts cold bent to hold the string


Looks pretty good. The only thing I'd question is the 7/16" bolts. The industry standard is to measure from 1/4" posts so the 7/16 are just slightly big. They could work but you may have to tweak the formula a little to get the correct length threads in the end. Looks really solid though. Good work!


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## buddy13

i was wondering why we need a spring ?and there 5/16s my mistake


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## Huntinsker

You don't really "need" a spring but the spring can be calibrated with a scale so you can use it to tell what tension you have your string under. If you want, you can hook a scale up to the string every time so you can tell what weight you're at or you can use a scale once, get the compression measurements of the spring at 100 and 300lbs and then only use the scale once in a while to re-check the spring to make sure it's still accurate. Basically it acts as your scale so you don't put crazy amounts of weight on your string without realizing it.


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## buddy13

thanks huntinsker,I will wait for the spring before I start.Could you let me know when you get a chance what size serving material for center serving i have some 021 ..is that to thin?


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## buddy13

Maximus10127 said:


> Good luck with it man. Lookin forward to pics. My sister hooked me up with some free steel for a backbone from the metal shop she works for so hopefully soon enough I'll be making some too


Gets involved but hopefully i will find enough bows to make strings for


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## Huntinsker

Serving size really depends on how you're building your strings. I like 22 strands of 452x and .021 diameter 62xs center serving. That's what fits my nocks really well. If you make a thicker string, you may only want .018. If you make a thicker string you may want .025 center serving. Different nocks will have different throat sizes so you just have to experiment a bit.


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## Huntinsker

Haven't had many strings show up on here so I'll post some. Here's a black/teal that I made as well as a solid teal with black serving that I made for a frankenbow experiment. The last pic is of a green/black and a teal/black for comparison of the teal.


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## sb220

Tan and Natural (452x) , 3D serving










Anyways on this set I started my endloops as Automan stated here http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=12&p=1069069974#post1069069974, but then take one tag end over and through....the other tag end under and through. Like you do when making false tag ends on a yoked string's end without tags. 

This eliminates the possibility of rolling your bundles and allows you to really crank down from the start. The only thing you have to do here is keep the "Automan Cross" centered on the post until you get that first pass pulled up.


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## Huntinsker

I like that color combo for a camo bow. Looks great sb220!


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## sb220

thanks. Getting better with every set :thumbs_up


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## buddy13

looks great i like the colors ,,made one for a long recurve without the spring yet.Looks good but kinda all thumbs really want to make a few to work out the bugs.For my stick bows then I will make one for the newer bows


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## buddy13

kinda the best looking string i ever made honestly but i no there are flaws


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## deputy83

What is the best way to keep end servings tight over tag ends? What I am referring to is after your end loops are tag served and you serve over them with your Halo for instance. My servings are really nice up until then. Once I meet the tag serving and go over it, my serving begins to get messy and separate.


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## ShawnRees

deputy83 said:


> What is the best way to keep end servings tight over tag ends? What I am referring to is after your end loops are tag served and you serve over them with your Halo for instance. My servings are really nice up until then. Once I meet the tag serving and go over it, my serving begins to get messy and separate.


Really good question.


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## Huntinsker

deputy83 said:


> What is the best way to keep end servings tight over tag ends? What I am referring to is after your end loops are tag served and you serve over them with your Halo for instance. My servings are really nice up until then. Once I meet the tag serving and go over it, my serving begins to get messy and separate.


That's one of the "feel" things that you'll develop. Serving that portion of the strings is the hardest by far and one area where even veteran builders can have occasional problems with. A few things that I've done to reduce the splits and bulges is to make sure the tag end serving is tight and tapers down, I do the last bit by hand and I actually will decrease the serving tension a little.

When finishing the tag end, there is a point where the opposite side of the bundle needs to be wrapped over. This causes a bit of a bulge on that side. So to make a smooth transition down to the string, I wrap a few extra wraps around the area just to the side of the bulge going toward the string to make a nice smooth transition down to the string. Kind of hard to explain but I hope you can imagine it. Then when wrapping the final back served area, I make sure that it's good and tight and also not too bulky. I'm going to build a string here soon so I'll try to take pictures explaining what I mean.

Now when you have your tag end finished right and tight, after using my serving spinner for most of the way, I'll get to a point and then go by hand. This is the point where you can get splits and bulges if your tag underneath is loose and bulky because the serving bites down into the extra material essentially squeezing it out between the serving. To combat that, the tight and smooth transitions underneath help but also a small reduction in the serving tension can help. If wrapping by hand still causes bulges and splits, I back up and reel off material and wrap it by hand placing it exactly where I want then pull it tight. You may only have to do that a few times or you may need to do 1/2" by hand. It just depends on how well you did the tag end. It's a bit tedious but if you want it to look good, you have to be meticulous. 

Here's the last string that I made and what the ends near the loops look like. It's the teal and black from above.


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## deputy83

Makes sense...probably need some more practice. Also when you serve the end loops do you serve from loop to middle of the string or middle if string towards loop?


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## zdogk9

deputy83 said:


> What is the best way to keep end servings tight over tag ends? What I am referring to is after your end loops are tag served and you serve over them with your Halo for instance. My servings are really nice up until then. Once I meet the tag serving and go over it, my serving begins to get messy and separate.


When serving the end loops on strings for my recurve, I've found that if I serve one side of the loop about 1/8" longer than the other that I get a far smoother transition when I serve into the loop to finish it.


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## Huntinsker

deputy83 said:


> Makes sense...probably need some more practice. Also when you serve the end loops do you serve from loop to middle of the string or middle if string towards loop?


I always serve toward the loop.


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## deputy83

Trying a second set. This set is for my Contender Elite. Going with flo orange and flo pink. I will post up as I go...


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## Huntinsker

That loop and tag end look really nice. Super smooth transition and nice tight loop overlap. Looking good!


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## automan26

Man, that flo pink looks great!!! You really know how to use your El-Cheap-O!!! That end loop and serving looks perfect.

Automan


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## deputy83

Thanks guys...more to come soon....


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## buddy13

Wow I cant beleve how nice these string are coming out!Color combinations having a problem with all ways did in life.Have not put any on a bow yet to test about peep rotation.But looking very closely at my zebra twist string the ones I am making seem to be the same or better.My bows are all in tune with newer strings on there but I am dying to see..


----------



## redyak3

Thought I'd "remodel" the El-Cheapo to get more tension. Rec'd the new spring from McMaster-Carr mentioned earlier, #9584K68. Also added gussets for rigidity. Love this thread, have fun building folks!


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## ron w

great thread!
years ago, when I was shooting allot of competition, I had a really fancy, all machined "precision" string jig, that I sold when I quit shooting for six years. I recently stated shooting again and when I needed to build some strings I built the jig in this thread, because I just couldn't see spending the money on another super-duper, all machined jig for the few sets of threads i'd build for myself now, anymore. I have to say it works every bit as good as the all machined , precision jug I used to have and it's cost is literally pennies on the dollar compared to having a jig made like I used to have.


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Thought I'd "remodel" the El-Cheapo to get more tension. Rec'd the new spring from McMaster-Carr mentioned earlier, #9584K68. Also added gussets for rigidity. Love this thread, have fun building folks!


Looks really good and stout. I'd use caution when going for more tension though. I've read on here where the president of BCY fibers said he doesn't recommend stretching his materials much above 400lbs. I think he said 450 is where you could potentially see the materials start to break down. Our jigs can easily get that high but you shouldn't need it.


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## deputy83

Here are a few more on the jig. The set is built I just have to put them on. I will post pics once I get them installed.


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## Huntinsker

Finally got my Beiter winder and yesterday made my spinner for it. Thought I'd post it up incase someone was needing inspiration to build one of these to make their lives a lot easier.


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## buddy13

is anyone having problems with the ends of string popping off the posts under the 300 lbs


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> is anyone having problems with the ends of string popping off the posts under the 300 lbs


That's what the eye bolts are for on my jig. If you look at the very first picture on the first page of the thread, you can see that the threaded rod is angled upward towards the middle. That's because I have the eye bolts at such a length to hold them horizontal when the string is under tension. If you have the horizontal to begin with and then put pressure on them they will bow inward like this / \ and the string will pop off. I also left part of the bolt head on mine as a modification and you can also use a cap screw in place of the hex bolt. I just used the grade 8 hex bolt because it was super hard and wasn't going to bend.

Since your jig posts are made of the bent bolts, I'd just bend them farther so the make more of a hook. You don't have to have straight posts to make a string.


----------



## buddy13

I changed them tapped the into the nut and the threaded rod more like yours.I am on my third string I think the twists really help on the peep rotation.At first I was afraid to add the 9/10 on an inch per 100.So I ended up taking to many twists out of the string,to tune even though they were pretty stable I wasnt happy.The string I just put on the bow I stretched all night added required math .This one seems as good as any I have had on my bows from several different companies.We have a snow storm here so no going to shoot a bunch of arrows but it seems to be working well i have pulled the bow back 40 or 50 times the peep is staying put.Very little rotation if any.Now I need more bows to make strings for,,I like it!If i find my camera charger I will try to take a picture..Again thanks all for your help this is great.


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## Huntinsker

Good deal. Glad you're having fun with it and getting a good product also.


----------



## automan26

I had some time off from school today,so I decided to use the time to try and build something slightly different. If you look closely you will notice that the all-thread has been replaced with 5/8" X 6" carriage bolts. Also, I liked the modification Huntinsker made with my original spring design so I copied what he did with a slight twist. I am low-budget all the way, and since I am a high school auto shop teacher, I have buckets of small block chevy valve springs laying around waiting to be thrown out. A speed shop told me that at coil bind this spring should be close to 300#. At 1 5/8" it measures 100#. I found some silver paint specifically for painting rims on cars and painted the spring, then used two valve spring oil shields just to make it look a bit better. You will notice what appears to be shiny machined cylinders used for spacers. These are nothing more than plain old sections of black pipe sanded with some 320 and 400 grit emery cloth. I think it really pops. I have to stop building these things. Just today I gave one away and I still have three of them sitting around. Maybe I will get two more sections of SuperStrut and set things up so I can build a string and both cables at the same time.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Looks really nice Automan. I'll bet it's nice and smooth under tension too.


----------



## broadheadnut

maybe im missing it, but i use the outer limits moto server. so serving toward the loop is not possible...... right?



Huntinsker said:


> I always serve toward the loop.


----------



## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> maybe im missing it, but i use the outer limits moto server. so serving toward the loop is not possible...... right?


I don't see why you couldn't serve toward the loop until you get about an inch away, stop and disconnect the moto server and finish by hand. That's what I do with my spinner. It works great.


----------



## broadheadnut

guess i never thought about it like that....... i normally just pull slack and back serve, how would you end the serving



Huntinsker said:


> I don't see why you couldn't serve toward the loop until you get about an inch away, stop and disconnect the moto server and finish by hand. That's what I do with my spinner. It works great.


----------



## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> guess i never thought about it like that....... i normally just pull slack and back serve, how would you end the serving


Check out post #5 on the first page. I have an explanation with pics of how I do it. You basically just serve over a scrap piece to create a loop. Then when you get to where you want to finish it, put your tag end of serving through the loop and pull it through using the scrap piece that you served over.


----------



## redyak3

automan26 said:


> I had some time off from school today,so I decided to use the time to try and build something slightly different. If you look closely you will notice that the all-thread has been replaced with 5/8" X 6" carriage bolts. Also, I liked the modification Huntinsker made with my original spring design so I copied what he did with a slight twist. I am low-budget all the way, and since I am a high school auto shop teacher, I have buckets of small block chevy valve springs laying around waiting to be thrown out. A speed shop told me that at coil bind this spring should be close to 300#. At 1 5/8" it measures 100#. I found some silver paint specifically for painting rims on cars and painted the spring, then used two valve spring oil shields just to make it look a bit better. You will notice what appears to be shiny machined cylinders used for spacers. These are nothing more than plain old sections of black pipe sanded with some 320 and 400 grit emery cloth. I think it really pops. I have to stop building these things. Just today I gave one away and I still have three of them sitting around. Maybe I will get two more sections of SuperStrut and set things up so I can build a string and both cables at the same time.
> 
> Automan


Looks Great Automan!!! Inspiriation is alive and well. I like the carriage bolt idea, any advantage over the all-thread besides the clean look.:smile:


----------



## automan26

redyak3 said:


> ...any advantage over the all-thread besides the clean look.:smile:


There are some minor advantages--First there is one less machining step; you don't have to saw the All-thread into two sections. Also, you will notice that the carriage bolts have a square on the end, just under the head. A 5/8" wrench fits this square, so if you wanted to, you could eliminate the longer Allen head bolt behind the spring and hold the carriage bolt with a wrench while you adjust the initial tension of the spring. After that you don't do much with that side of the jig anymore anyway. This would eliminate having to drill and tap one hole in the carriage bolt and I found that trying to run a tap through the material of this bolt, or All-thread for that matter, is like trying to run a tap through Silly Putty; it can get a bit sticky and it is very easy to break the tap in the process. (I know this from experience.)

All in all, it just makes the jig look cleaner and aids slightly in the build process.

There is one more minor upgrade I am going to make to this jig. I am going to drill an oil hole in the nuts used for tightening and tensioning the string. This would allow me to get oil directly onto the threads and make the jig run smooth as a baby's butt.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> There is one more minor upgrade I am going to make to this jig. I am going to drill an oil hole in the nuts used for tightening and tensioning the string. This would allow me to get oil directly onto the threads and make the jig run smooth as a baby's butt.
> 
> Automan


I've been using this stuff, the Break Free CLP. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Brea...t=Break+free&WTz_l=Header;Search-All+Products 

So far I've applied it once to the non-sprung end and it has run smoothly for 6 months and quite a few strings without reapplying. I got one .68oz. bottle and am pretty sure I won't need another for a very long time. It's really good stuff and is designed to last a long time. I make my strings over the living room carpet (my wife is awesome and my apartment is small) so I needed a lubricant that I could use very little of and have it last a long time without dripping. This stuff fit the bill nicely.


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## sb220

if you want smooth, throw a thrust bearing in front of that tension nut.

http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#standard-rolling-element-thrust-bearings/=qdkj8v


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## Huntinsker

sb220 said:


> if you want smooth, throw a thrust bearing in front of that tension nut.
> 
> http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#standard-rolling-element-thrust-bearings/=qdkj8v


Great idea. I wonder if the bearings to fit a 5/8" shaft will fit over 5/8" all thread? Jumping up to a 3/4" seems a little big.


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## sb220

Huntinsker said:


> Great idea. I wonder if the bearings to fit a 5/8" shaft will fit over 5/8" all thread? Jumping up to a 3/4" seems a little big.


Yeah Id go with the 5/8


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## sb220

Huntinsker said:


> Great idea. I wonder if the bearings to fit a 5/8" shaft will fit over 5/8" all thread? Jumping up to a 3/4" seems a little big.


Actually the more I look at your designs I don't know that a thrust bearing will work anywhere. I think you guys spin the bolt to tension?....I ratchet the nut against the angle iron on mine and using the thrust bearing works wonders.
In my head I don't see your design benefiting from it


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## Huntinsker

sb220 said:


> Actually the more I look at your designs I don't know that a thrust bearing will work anywhere. I think you guys spin the bolt to tension?....I ratchet the nut against the angle iron on mine and using the thrust bearing works wonders.
> In my head I don't see your design benefiting from it


No I think it would help. I hold the "handle" on the non-sprung end and tighten the nut on the outside of the steel bar. Putting a bearing between the steel and the nut should decrease friction on the steel and make it nice and smooth. It also would make it easier to twist the string under higher tension. To twist, I just use the handle on the non-sprung end and spin the whole threaded rod with it. The bearing should again, reduce friction and make twisting smoother.


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## broadheadnut

i appreciate the help guys.... awesome thread here


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## buddy13

broadheadnut said:


> maybe im missing it, but i use the outer limits moto server. so serving toward the loop is not possible...... right?


How does the moto server work, I mean is it worth the money and how do you know when you have 6 lbs on your server moto or by hand I guess i could tie on 3/4 of a gal of water. or is it 8 lbs.by the way i shot my new string today I made the peep barley moves 93 inch solo cam string.Feel very confident i will be making my own strings and cables from now on.Tried to take pics but that didnt come out as good as the strings.


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## sb220

Huntinsker said:


> No I think it would help. I hold the "handle" on the non-sprung end and tighten the nut on the outside of the steel bar. Putting a bearing between the steel and the nut should decrease friction on the steel and make it nice and smooth. It also would make it easier to twist the string under higher tension. To twist, I just use the handle on the non-sprung end and spin the whole threaded rod with it. The bearing should again, reduce friction and make twisting smoother.


ah I see. In that case, it will make a difference


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## sb220

Im also not sure how your setups keep the string from untwisting under tension.....if its just the friction of metal on metal to keep that from happening or what, but add in thrust washers and twists are going to spin out when you let go of it. Heres what I came up with

I got some galvanized angles from home depot and cut some slots in them. Thrust washer between angle iron and spring. The black collar on front is one of these "set-screw collars" with a longer screw in it. http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#shaft-collars/=qdqjey 










Loosen the set screw to twist and tighten it back down when your done twisting.


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## Huntinsker

sb220 said:


> Im also not sure how your setups keep the string from untwisting under tension.....if its just the friction of metal on metal to keep that from happening or what, but add in thrust washers and twists are going to spin out when you let go of it. QUOTE]
> 
> That's an interesting point. I'm not sure if the bearing would allow it to spin so freely that it would untwist but trying it is the only way to find out.


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## mwmich

What an awesome thread you guys have put together. I am going start gathering the materials and hopefully be building my own threads soon. It looks like a lot of fun. Thanks Huntinsker and Automan26 for putting your thoughts together and sharing them with us all.


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## redyak3

Anyone care to share a pic of a tag end pinstripe before being served? Thinking on going 4.5-red, 2-blk, 4.5-yellow.


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## automan26

redyak3 said:


> Anyone care to share a pic of a tag end pinstripe before being served? Thinking on going 4.5-red, 2-blk, 4.5-yellow.


Bummer!!!!!! I just finished serving a pinstripe about 30 minutes ago. (Flo Orange, Black, Flo Green.)

Automan


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## redyak3

^^^
Shucks Automan ... I had a "senior moment" at our club shoot yesterday :embara:. Using up the last of my black cherry until I can get some black and red. I can't thank you enough for sharing the El-Cheapo !!! Loving the mods I put on it, definitely not the prettiest, but holds some tension.


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Anyone care to share a pic of a tag end pinstripe before being served? Thinking on going 4.5-red, 2-blk, 4.5-yellow.


I'm going to make a Flo Green/Silver with black pins soon. I'll take some pics of the process. I want to show a little different way to lay it out and twist it too.


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## Rudyonthefly

[......This would eliminate having to drill and tap one hole in the carriage bolt and I found that trying to run a tap through the material of this bolt, or All-thread for that matter, is like trying to run a tap through Silly Putty; it can get a bit sticky and it is very easy to break the tap in the process. (I know this from experience.)]

Hi automan,

I used a 1/4" spring pin (aka roll pin or split pin) instead of the allen head bolt. This requires not tapping at all (and the associated headaches). Just drill 1/4" hole right through and drive the sping pin in - you are done. Only thing to be careful of is the orientation of the slots: you want to make sure the slot in the pin on the left post is facing right and the slot in the pin on the right post is facing left. If they don't face each other, you might cut your string loops as you build them.













left picture: left post - slot in pin facing right; right picture: right post - slot in pin facing left

Cheers, Rudy


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## automan26

Rudyonthefly said:


> [......This would eliminate having to drill and tap one hole in the carriage bolt and I found that trying to run a tap through the material of this bolt, or All-thread for that matter, is like trying to run a tap through Silly Putty; it can get a bit sticky and it is very easy to break the tap in the process. (I know this from experience.)]
> 
> Hi automan,
> 
> I used a 1/4" spring pin (aka roll pin or split pin) instead of the allen head bolt. This requires not tapping at all (and the associated headaches). Just drill 1/4" hole right through and drive the sping pin in - you are done. Only thing to be careful of is the orientation of the slots: you want to make sure the slot in the pin on the left post is facing right and the slot in the pin on the right post is facing left. If they don't face each other, you might cut your string loops as you build them.
> View attachment 1864042
> View attachment 1864043
> 
> left picture: left post - slot in pin facing right; right picture: right post - slot in pin facing left
> 
> Cheers, Rudy


A roll pin sounds like a great idea. It would cut down on building time and would make assembling the jig much easier. The next time I build a jig I will give it a try.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> A roll pin sounds like a great idea. It would cut down on building time and would make assembling the jig much easier. The next time I build a jig I will give it a try.
> 
> Automan


That would save some time but how strong are roll pins? Would they be able to take sideways pressure like a solid bolt/screw would?


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> That would save some time but how strong are roll pins? Would they be able to take sideways pressure like a solid bolt/screw would?


A good quality roll pin is one wicked-hard creature. They are often used to secure things like gears to a rotating shaft where shearing forces can become quite severe. I believe a 1/4" roll pin would take a load of 300# and never even notice. I have tried to cut roll pins with a hacksaw and I was surprised at just how hard those things can be. It looks like I may again be building another string jig so I can give it a try. I think this is a very good idea.

Automan


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## K.G.K.

Anyone know what the consequence would be of possibly over twisting a string during construction? I made a string for a Mathews Bow that is over 92". My string jig calculator was off by about 15-20 twists needed to shorten the string to proper length. In hindsight I would have set my pins a little closer during lay out to start off with. It seems like it turned out well. Its relaxing and doesn't appear to be twisting but there are two areas that are kind of kinking.They will straighten out under bow tension. I think Mathews bow strings are more serving than exposed string. Nearly 80" of the 92.25 is served...Wow. 

Just curious if anyone had some input. My strings have never had any peep or D-loop rotation once installed. I don't want it to start with this one 

KGK


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Anyone know what the consequence would be of possibly over twisting a string during construction? I made a string for a Mathews Bow that is over 92". My string jig calculator was off by about 15-20 twists needed to shorten the string to proper length. In hindsight I would have set my pins a little closer during lay out to start off with. It seems like it turned out well. Its relaxing and doesn't appear to be twisting but there are two areas that are kind of kinking.They will straighten out under bow tension. I think Mathews bow strings are more serving than exposed string. Nearly 80" of the 92.25 is served...Wow.
> 
> Just curious if anyone had some input. My strings have never had any peep or D-loop rotation once installed. I don't want it to start with this one
> 
> KGK


It shouldn't be a problem other than looking a little funny. I've heard some people claim higher speeds with a high twist rate string. I personally don't see how that's possible because it would only mean that there is more material in the string making it a bit heavier. 

I agree about the Mathews strings. Kind of crazy having that much serving. Might as well just serve it all. I just finished a z7 string for a buddy at work. His blue string is 85% black. Why bother making a cool color combo when you won't see it anyway.


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## K.G.K.

Tkanks! Agreed


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## deputy83

Finally got my strings installed and tuned!!


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## Huntinsker

deputy83 said:


> Finally got my strings installed and tuned!!


Looks great! Good work. How do they shoot?


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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> It shouldn't be a problem other than looking a little funny. I've heard some people claim higher speeds with a high twist rate string. I personally don't see how that's possible because it would only mean that there is more material in the string making it a bit heavier.
> 
> I agree about the Mathews strings. Kind of crazy having that much serving. Might as well just serve it all. I just finished a z7 string for a buddy at work. His blue string is 85% black. Why bother making a cool color combo when you won't see it anyway.


Have you used white halo serving? Does it look muddled or is it clear?


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## deputy83

Hadn't got to shoot other than paper tuning. The few arrows I shot felt good though.


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Have you used white halo serving? Does it look muddled or is it clear?


Works great. You have to serve it tight though. Bright colors underneath are the best. If you use primarily dark colors, it may turn out milky. Here's some clear Halo that I did on a flo pink and regular green.


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## turkeytom

tagged for later


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## Rudyonthefly

automan26 said:


> A good quality roll pin is one wicked-hard creature. They are often used to secure things like gears to a rotating shaft where shearing forces can become quite severe. I believe a 1/4" roll pin would take a load of 300# and never even notice. I have tried to cut roll pins with a hacksaw and I was surprised at just how hard those things can be. It looks like I may again be building another string jig so I can give it a try. I think this is a very good idea.
> 
> Automan


Hi all,

A note on the strength of roll pins: I know that certain manufacturers of bows stretch their strings to 450 lbs and serve them at 400 lbs. I built (overbuilt?) my jig to be able to take these forces. The roll pins never move at all. Key is to make sure the string stays low on the pin, where it exits the nut. I also use a short piece of scrap string material to tie the string down so that it stays on top of the nut and does not slide up on the pin. My threaded rod is 3/4 in alloy and the nuts are grade 8, so lots of strength there.

Cheers, Rudy


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## Huntinsker

Rudyonthefly said:


> A note on the strength of roll pins: I know that certain manufacturers of bows stretch their strings to 450 lbs and serve them at 400 lbs. I built (overbuilt?) my jig to be able to take these forces. The roll pins never move at all. Key is to make sure the string stays low on the pin, where it exits the nut. I also use a short piece of scrap string material to tie the string down so that it stays on top of the nut and does not slide up on the pin.


I wondered about that and if you could let it ride up at all. While stretching I think we all keep it as low as possible so I don't see the pin being a problem. Seems like a great modification.

Isn't it weird that some bow manufactures that make their own strings go to such lengths as to stretch and serve at such high weights and yet their strings typically aren't good?


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## redyak3

Think after countless sets, finally getting close. Serving a lot tighter. I manually hold the string to keep it from twisting while spinning the winder one-handed. Really have to make a string holder. The added tension from the new spring really helped as well. Can't wait to try some pinstripes...


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## Huntinsker

Looks nice red!


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## K.G.K.

redyak3 said:


> Think after countless sets, finally getting close. Serving a lot tighter. I manually hold the string to keep it from twisting while spinning the winder one-handed. Really have to make a string holder. The added tension from the new spring really helped as well. Can't wait to try some pinstripes...


My two favorite threads on AT... DIY String Jig and 92safari bow press. Nice strings by the way! 

I just finished a set for a Mathews Creed. Ill post a pic of them tomorrow after installing them with my press. Look familiar? Ha...great job!












redyak3 said:


> Think after countless sets, finally getting close. Serving a lot tighter. I manually hold the string to keep it from twisting while spinning the winder one-handed. Really have to make a string holder. The added tension from the new spring really helped as well. Can't wait to try some pinstripes...


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## redyak3

^^^
My two favorite DIY threads as well. Awesome press you made there!!! I love the sharing of info/experience on this site, I'm amazed and grateful.


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## K.G.K.

Me too!! It is such an amazing resource made great by people willing to share and relate to others. So grateful!! 

KGK


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## Steve Jo

Gorgeous threads and a great match to the bow



deputy83 said:


> Finally got my strings installed and tuned!!


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Anyone care to share a pic of a tag end pinstripe before being served? Thinking on going 4.5-red, 2-blk, 4.5-yellow.


I forgot I had this pic. It's 4 black strands on the rest flo green. These are the yoke end of the buss cable before serving with black. 








The top loop was giving me fits with the black wanting to cover the green.


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## lunghit

Great thread and it has helped me build some great strings. Im not sure if this was talked about here but I was curious if any of you guys tension before starting your tag loops. Lets say you lay out your 2 colors with as even tension as possible on the jig. Do you increase tension say about 25-50 pounds before starting your loops? I have tried both ways (tension and no tension) and have found that if I apply some it will help me build a better string. For some reason when I tag serve without tension I feel like everything is loose and wants to move around on me way too easy.


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## redyak3

lunghit said:


> Great thread and it has helped me build some great strings. Im not sure if this was talked about here but I was curious if any of you guys tension before starting your tag loops. Lets say you lay out your 2 colors with as even tension as possible on the jig. Do you increase tension say about 25-50 pounds before starting your loops? I have tried both ways (tension and no tension) and have found that if I apply some it will help me build a better string. For some reason when I tag serve without tension I feel like everything is loose and wants to move around on me way too easy.


I do as well, tension to 100lbs to even out the threads then make the end loops. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but it seems to help.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Great thread and it has helped me build some great strings. Im not sure if this was talked about here but I was curious if any of you guys tension before starting your tag loops. Lets say you lay out your 2 colors with as even tension as possible on the jig. Do you increase tension say about 25-50 pounds before starting your loops? I have tried both ways (tension and no tension) and have found that if I apply some it will help me build a better string. For some reason when I tag serve without tension I feel like everything is loose and wants to move around on me way too easy.


That's a great question and something I was thinking about the other day while making a set. I don't crank up the jig at all. That would move the posts a little from where I had them set and may throw off the length a bit. What I do is after crossing the tag ends and before the first wrap, I pull them tight. This will cause the slack to be pulled out of the bundles and you can actually watch it happen on the jig post. If I'm doing a single color single bundle, I give it hell on the two tag ends. If I'm doing a 2 color, 2 bundle string, I pull a little on the first end and then after 5 or 6 wraps, I go to the other end and pull those tight. This eliminates the slack completely and the strings come out great. 

I should say that I use that block of wood to stop the spring from compressing at all while I pull them tight. I know the spring is very stiff but I don't want any movement after I set the post settings.


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> That's a great question and something I was thinking about the other day while making a set. I don't crank up the jig at all. That would move the posts a little from where I had them set and may throw off the length a bit. What I do is after crossing the tag ends and before the first wrap, I pull them tight. This will cause the slack to be pulled out of the bundles and you can actually watch it happen on the jig post. If I'm doing a single color single bundle, I give it hell on the two tag ends. If I'm doing a 2 color, 2 bundle string, I pull a little on the first end and then after 5 or 6 wraps, I go to the other end and pull those tight. This eliminates the slack completely and the strings come out great.
> 
> I should say that I use that block of wood to stop the spring from compressing at all while I pull them tight. I know the spring is very stiff but I don't want any movement after I set the post settings.


I thought about the distance changing with the added tension so I shorten the post-to-post dimension by a "short" 1/8.


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## Maximus10127

Argggg!!!! Why can't I get my string jig done already! Just haven't had the time to get it built but thanks guys for all the good info! Can't wait to build me dome floor green and silver strings with black pin stripe! I might just have to buy them at this point! Luckily my pipe clamp bow press is almost done thanks again huntinsker for all the help with my encounter!


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> That's a great question and something I was thinking about the other day while making a set. I don't crank up the jig at all. That would move the posts a little from where I had them set and may throw off the length a bit. What I do is after crossing the tag ends and before the first wrap, I pull them tight. This will cause the slack to be pulled out of the bundles and you can actually watch it happen on the jig post. If I'm doing a single color single bundle, I give it hell on the two tag ends. If I'm doing a 2 color, 2 bundle string, I pull a little on the first end and then after 5 or 6 wraps, I go to the other end and pull those tight. This eliminates the slack completely and the strings come out great.
> 
> I should say that I use that block of wood to stop the spring from compressing at all while I pull them tight. I know the spring is very stiff but I don't want any movement after I set the post settings.


I also notice some movement when laying out the string so I will have to look into the block of wood idea or something similar. I wrap string with very little pressure, just enough not to sag and that seems to help. Now you say you pull tight before your first tag wrap? I would think this would tighten the strands in your hand but loosen up others on the jig if they dont all pull evenly. I might have to try that.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> I also notice some movement when laying out the string so I will have to look into the block of wood idea or something similar. I wrap string with very little pressure, just enough not to sag and that seems to help. Now you say you pull tight before your first tag wrap? I would think this would tighten the strands in your hand but loosen up others on the jig if they dont all pull evenly. I might have to try that.


The other strands on the jig are the strands in your hand since they are one continuous piece of material. Pull on one and they will all give up their slack. If you do it, you'll see what I mean.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> should say that I use that block of wood to stop the spring from compressing at all while I pull them tight. I know the spring is very stiff but I don't want any movement after I set the post settings.


I just cut a piece of wood to hold the spring and post in place and I think its going to work very well. I should be making a string tomorrow and I will let you know how it does. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## buddy13

Having a hard time getting length right...HELP!


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> Having a hard time getting length right...HELP!


Going to need a little more info. Coming out short or long? What's your process? How are you measuring? Any info would help.


----------



## buddy13

Seems just having a hard time judging some to big some to short other than that they are beautiful.Which doesnt much matter if they Dont fit any bow.


----------



## buddy13

I have a set on one bow the bow is perfect peep is straight size came out perfect.


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## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> Seems just having a hard time judging some to big some to short other than that they are beautiful.Which doesnt much matter if they Dont fit any bow.


There really shouldn't be much judging. Use the formula to set your initial post settings, lay it out, stretch it, twist it, stretch again, let it relax a few hours, tension again and serve, let it rest over night and measure at 100lbs. If you need a few more or a few less twists, put them in or take them out and you're good to go. Always measure as precisely as possible and no guessing will be needed. You can also tweak things to fit your needs. I typically set my post settings just a little shorter for threads over 60" or so. The longer they are, the more material there is to stretch. I also like a lower twist rate so a few less twists is good for me. 

If you do the same things, the same way each time you build, you'll learn what you need to tweak to work for you. Pretty soon you'll nail it. I remember the first string that I made that didn't need any additional twists after serving. It was a pretty sweet feeling.


----------



## redyak3

I've been using the information that Automan sent me when I first inquired about his jig, very good stuff. The string calculator that he included in the info packet has been spot on for me, as well as the string building tips. Lots of good information out there, it seems that there's subtle differences in techniques among builders. Find one that works for you, and have fun with it. Definitely a good feeling when it all comes together.


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker, I have a question on your construction technique. You said that you run a scrap piece of material through the twists to give good separation between colored strands. I tried this and found it difficult because I could only go about 6" before the strands got too tight from twisting the string so I had to allow the string to reset and unwind my piece before I could go another 6" of so until I got through the entire length. I do like the results, but did I do it right? Thanks,


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Huntinsker, I have a question on your construction technique. You said that you run a scrap piece of material through the twists to give good separation between colored strands. I tried this and found it difficult because I could only go about 6" before the strands got too tight from twisting the string so I had to allow the string to reset and unwind my piece before I could go another 6" of so until I got through the entire length. I do like the results, but did I do it right? Thanks,


Yep that's what I do. Pull it a ways, unwrap it, pull it some more. If you have some strands that want to overlap, this will get them back with their own bundle.


----------



## K.G.K.

Another question...I completed a string @ 88" fully served. I then let it relax on the posts 12 hours and when I took it off the posts it violently wanted to untwist. It became all knotted up where it wasn't served. I have never had this happen. Typically my stings are stable and do not want to untwist upon completion. Anyone know what happened? My thought is that I may have served in the wrong directions, but I don't think so. Did I serve it too tight? I sued string stops to hold 10" sections in place while I serve it very tight. Bummed at how much serving I wasted, assuming I cant use this string. Thanks for any comment.


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> So I got a pm today about how I serve the strings if I go by hand or with a power server of some sort. It made me realize that I have mentioned my version of b0w bender's NW spinner but I've never shown it. Here's my much less nice version of the NW Spinner. b0w bender's is much nicer than mine and if you want something like this but don't have router or band saw to cut one out, I definitely recommend ordering one from him.
> View attachment 1831048


Very cool, thinking of making one up for my Spigarelli. Looks like (2) pieces of 3/4" ply or is it 1/2".


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Another question...I completed a string @ 88" fully served. I then let it relax on the posts 12 hours and when I took it off the posts it violently wanted to untwist. It became all knotted up where it wasn't served. I have never had this happen. Typically my stings are stable and do not want to untwist upon completion. Anyone know what happened? My thought is that I may have served in the wrong directions, but I don't think so. Did I serve it too tight? I sued string stops to hold 10" sections in place while I serve it very tight. Bummed at how much serving I wasted, assuming I cant use this string. Thanks for any comment.


I'm not sure what would cause that. I've served a string the wrong direction. Right when I started making them, my buddy wanted one. Red/white with clear serving. I didn't pay close enough attention as I was watching t.v while I was serving it. I served one end the wrong way and when we started shooting it in, you could actually see the string lose its twist under the clear serving. It was pretty cool in a bad way but I learned something. Anyway, when I let his string rest, it didn't twist up like you're describing. When I relax my threads, I take them off the posts and secure the ends with a paperclip. 

I'd measure it at 100lbs again and if it's good, put it on the bow and see what happens. It may be great or it may show you what you did wrong, if anything.


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## redyak3

Zoomed in on the pic.. looks like 1 piece 3/4" w/ routed insets. Cool idea... just have to make a taller jig.


----------



## K.G.K.

K.G.K. said:


> Another question...I completed a string @ 88" fully served. I then let it relax on the posts 12 hours and when I took it off the posts it violently wanted to untwist. It became all knotted up where it wasn't served. I have never had this happen. Typically my stings are stable and do not want to untwist upon completion. Anyone know what happened? My thought is that I may have served in the wrong directions, but I don't think so. Did I serve it too tight? I sued string stops to hold 10" sections in place while I serve it very tight. Bummed at how much serving I wasted, assuming I cant use this string. Thanks for any comment.


Well...I figured out that I served one section the wrong direction. If your wondering about the affects of serving the correct direction...trust me. It matters.Ha.


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## Mordekyle

On one of my first strings, I served both ends in the wrong direction. When I put it on the bow, I drew it, and watched the peep rotate a full 180*.

Then I redid one end correctly and reinstalled it. Peep rotated exactly 90*. 

After I redid the other serving and reinstalled, it drew with zero rotation. Lesson learned. Incorrect serving does not a string ruin- just unserve and reserve.


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Zoomed in on the pic.. looks like 1 piece 3/4" w/ routed insets. Cool idea... just have to make a taller jig.


It's actually 2 pieces of 3/4". If I had 1/4" and 3/4" plywood it would have been better. The 1/4" piece I would have used on the bottom and cut down into the 3/4" to sink the jig down into. That would put the serving more centered in the spinner. I don't have a router so I made it all with a small band saw and a dremel tool.


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## lunghit

Hey Huntinsker thanks for the tip on the piece of wood. So simple and it helped tremendously with string layout. I just cut a piece of old fence from my pile of kindling wood to try out and it worked great. I also pulled tight on the strands after crossing them just like you said and that also helped a lot. Not a sign of a loose strand anymore. Thanks


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## Huntinsker

Good deal lunghit. I'm glad that helped. It mad a noticeable difference for me too.


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## broadheadnut

how do you guys wrap your tag ends when you do a pinstripe? i cant get it to look good and consistent on the end.....


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## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> how do you guys wrap your tag ends when you do a pinstripe? i cant get it to look good and consistent on the end.....


Just take your time and make sure the material stays twisted. If it flattens out, it gets hard to keep them from over lapping and looking bad. I've been able to do both colors at the same time for a little bit without a problem but when it starts to untwist it gets harder. Just go slow and take your time.


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## broadheadnut

okay, another question. when twisting the string on my 2 post jig i twist the handle in a clockwise direction from the right and i am trying to figure out what direction to serve......... if i twist clockwise the strands look like the bundles are twisted in the counter clockwise direction. does this make sense? then im assuming i need to serve with the strands from that end, and then serve in the opposite direction on the other end. is this right??


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## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> okay, another question. when twisting the string on my 2 post jig i twist the handle in a clockwise direction from the right and i am trying to figure out what direction to serve......... if i twist clockwise the strands look like the bundles are twisted in the counter clockwise direction. does this make sense? then im assuming i need to serve with the strands from that end, and then serve in the opposite direction on the other end. is this right??


Page 10 post 227 has 2 videos explaining it.


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## broadheadnut

you are the man dude! i appreciate it



Huntinsker said:


> Page 10 post 227 has 2 videos explaining it.


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## redyak3

Materials didn't show at work today so I had time to work up a DIY moto-server at home. This thing might even work. Thanks Huntinsker for the inspiration!


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## broadheadnut

another question...... i see that you are judging serving direction by serving towards the loop. i serve from the loop with my moto. so does this change the way i need to serve???



Huntinsker said:


> Page 10 post 227 has 2 videos explaining it.


----------



## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> another question...... i see that you are judging serving direction by serving towards the loop. i serve from the loop with my moto. so does this change the way i need to serve???


In my video I serve the bottom loop first, which is on the sprung end post, and show the video from behind the top loop, the unsprung post. If I were to serve away from the loops instead of towards, I would need to serve the opposite direction, from that perspective or camera view, of what I first show and move my serving jig toward the middle of the string and toward where I had the camera positioned. If I were to change perspective and now have the camera behind the serving tool, and still serve from the loop toward the middle, the rotation would look the same as what it first looks like in the video.

An extreme example may illustrate this in words better. Imagine I have a 50" string with a 49" length of serving for the bottom cam (That would leave 1/2" for each loop un-served. I know it wouldn't happen but go with me on this). If I wanted to serve toward my bottom loop, like I did in the video the first time, I would have to start at the top loop. I would be serving toward the bottom loop but at the same time away from the top loop. The serving rotation and direction is the same for both but of course, towards the bottom and away from the top. So serving direction doesn't change unless your perspective does. It doesn't really matter where you are on the string but you need to match the direction of rotation and the direction of travel.


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## broadheadnut

i guess i am having a hard time grasping this......... if i twist the string clockwise from my spring end, the strands lay up in a counter clockwise position. i am serving from the loop to the middle of the string with my moto serving jig. what way do i need to serve on the right side (the side i twisted from) and the left side??


----------



## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> i guess i am having a hard time grasping this......... if i twist the string clockwise from my spring end, the strands lay up in a counter clockwise position. i am serving from the loop to the middle of the string with my moto serving jig. what way do i need to serve on the right side (the side i twisted from) and the left side??


If you turn your post clockwise to twist, rotate your serving tool clockwise going away from your posts. Doesn't matter which post you're serving away from, you serve the same way.


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## Huntinsker

So I'm getting cabin fever from being slowly snowed in here in the Kansas City area and decided to make my first 3 color Flemish twist string for my Bear Kodiak Magnum. Haven't served it yet but it looks pretty good. 4 strands each of D97 for a 12 strand total.








Here's a recent set that I made for my buddies dad. He's an OU fan so I did natural and mountain berry 452x.


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## broadheadnut

Just got done my first pinstripe. Looks pretty awesome!


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## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> View attachment 1872609
> 
> 
> Just got done my first pinstripe. Looks pretty awesome!


Very Nice! Is that black/green with Flo green pins? I like that combo whatever it is.


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## 2X_LUNG

Looks awesome


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## broadheadnut

it is black and grey with a flo yellow pin! kinda crappy pic ill try to take a better one later!



Huntinsker said:


> Very Nice! Is that black/green with Flo green pins? I like that combo whatever it is.


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## broadheadnut

thanks bro!


2X_LUNG said:


> Looks awesome


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## Huntinsker

broadheadnut said:


> it is black and grey with a flo yellow pin! kinda crappy pic ill try to take a better one later!


Nice. My "summer" string is going to be flo green/grey with black pins.


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## redyak3

Awesome first pinstripe !!! Got a pic of the end loops tag-end served, the area I'm concerned about when I get to trying my first.


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## cubsfan

I just wanted to show a few pics of my jig and strings. I changed a couple thing from the original only because I have a friend that is a machinist that changed some things. I am getting a lot better and my 9 y.o. Daughter is helping me and we are having a great time. OP, thanks so much for posting this DIY and instructions!!!!


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## broadheadnut

String building is addicting for sure. ive always fletched my own arrows, worked on bows etc but string building takes the cake. Its a true science and you can always learn. Awesome thread OP!


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## Huntinsker

Very cool cubsfan. It's great that you are getting your daughter involved. Glad you guys are having a good time with this.


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## cubsfan

I showed this pic to a friend and asked why my cable is going a different direction than the set he made me. He said I twist counterclockwise, or left-handed. Does it matter if I do it all the same for every string and cable?
The pink and yellow is what I made.


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## Huntinsker

cubsfan said:


> I showed this pic to a friend and asked why my cable is going a different direction than the set he made me. He said I twist counterclockwise, or left-handed. Does it matter if I do it all the same for every string and cable?
> The pink and yellow is what I made.


Technically no, but it's basically an unwritten industry rule to twist clockwise so the colors lay out like the pink and purple threads in your pic. After twisting, your colors will seem to twist around each other the opposite way that you twist. If you twist the opposite way, you also have to serve the opposite direction otherwise you'll have some serious problems.


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## cubsfan

Ok, I misunderstood something in this thread when I first started then. Could you please clarify...if I use the non spring end and twist clockwise, which direction do I serve that end and which direction do I serve the spring end?


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## buddy13

My colors seem to be dull I think I am burnishing to much.I think I have the sizes down this can be very frustrating at times but.Seems alot of ppl on here having trouble with the serving direction you want to tighten the string twists in your mind in the direction you go[If you let them 300 lbs and string clamps so we are not letting it twist]but if you think about it that way its easy clock wise counter clock wise there are two ends to a string soooo.I think the twisting tightening thought is easier to grasp I have solo cam bows so all this thought and work gets covered up by serving.But I do like the thought of being able to make a great string for anyones bow and have it have a tubeless peep just my thoughts,Oh I love this thread..David I am no expert and have thrown a lot of strings away cause of length issues but the ones I got right with my serving method are zero peep twist basicly the same just tighten twists in string as you go.[in your mind don t let it twist at all] Does this make sense to anyone but me?


----------



## Huntinsker

cubsfan said:


> Ok, I misunderstood something in this thread when I first started then. Could you please clarify...if I use the non spring end and twist clockwise, which direction do I serve that end and which direction do I serve the spring end?


Page 10 post 227 has 2 videos explaining it. I think b0w_bender's video is better than mine but I put mine up anyway. There also is a little more explanation on page 18 posts 431, 432, and 433. There are also several others scattered through the thread from other people. It's hard to explain in words and it seems no matter how I type it out, it's still confusing. I think the videos will probably help more.

I'll give it another shot with your question. Lets assume that you are looking from behind your unsprung end and you twisted clockwise from that perspective. Your bundles would seem to twist around one another to the left. So any serving on any part of the string that goes away from your unsprung side would rotate around the string clockwise from this perspective. If you serve toward the sprung post for that loop, you serve clockwise towards it and away from the unsprung end. If you want to serve towards the unsprung end to finish the loop, you would serve counterclockwise because we are no longer serving away from the unsprung post but rather towards it. 

Now it doesn't matter where you are on the string. If you keep your perspective from behind the unsprung end where you twisted the string clockwise, you will always serve clockwise traveling away from that end. Even if you are serving the very middle of the string, you keep serving with clockwise rotation traveling away from the unsprung end. Now if you want to serve TOWARD the unsprung end, you would rotate the tool COUNTERclockwise and toward the unsprung end no matter where you are on the string.


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## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> My colors seem to be dull I think I am burnishing to much.I think I have the sizes down this can be very frustrating at times but.Seems alot of ppl on here having trouble with the serving direction you want to tighten the string twists in your mind in the direction you go[If you let them 300 lbs and string clamps so we are not letting it twist]but if you think about it that way its easy clock wise counter clock wise there are two ends to a string soooo.I think the twisting tightening thought is easier to grasp I have solo cam bows so all this thought and work gets covered up by serving.But I do like the thought of being able to make a great string for anyones bow and have it have a tubeless peep just my thoughts,Oh I love this thread..David I am no expert and have thrown a lot of strings away cause of length issues but the ones I got right with my serving method are zero peep twist basicly the same just tighten twists in string as you go.[in your mind don t let it twist at all] Does this make sense to anyone but me?


Some colors do look a little dull if you take a lot of wax off them. I like to take the wax off each separate color and then burnish the whole string when I'm stretching it before serving. Burnishing really only needs to get the bundles in a nice round shape. A little wax will come off but you're not trying to remove wax with burnishing. Just trying to make it round. After you serve, you can add a little string wax and the colors may come back to life a little. I like a Bohning Seal-Tight. It's a silicone based wax with no smell or color so it will make the string look a little wet and shiny if you use it. I've been using the same tube for the past 5 years. It doesn't take much and it works really well.


----------



## cubsfan

Huntinsker said:


> Page 10 post 227 has 2 videos explaining it. I think b0w_bender's video is better than mine but I put mine up anyway. There also is a little more explanation on page 18 posts 431, 432, and 433. There are also several others scattered through the thread from other people. It's hard to explain in words and it seems no matter how I type it out, it's still confusing. I think the videos will probably help more.
> 
> I'll give it another shot with your question. Lets assume that you are looking from behind your unsprung end and you twisted clockwise from that perspective. Your bundles would seem to twist around one another to the left. So any serving on any part of the string that goes away from your unsprung side would rotate around the string clockwise from this perspective. If you serve toward the sprung post for that loop, you serve clockwise towards it and away from the unsprung end. If you want to serve towards the unsprung end to finish the loop, you would serve counterclockwise because we are no longer serving away from the unsprung post but rather towards it.
> 
> Now it doesn't matter where you are on the string. If you keep your perspective from behind the unsprung end where you twisted the string clockwise, you will always serve clockwise traveling away from that end. Even if you are serving the very middle of the string, you keep serving with clockwise rotation traveling away from the unsprung end. Now if you want to serve TOWARD the unsprung end, you would rotate the tool COUNTERclockwise and toward the unsprung end no matter where you are on the string.


That explanation helped a lot. Thanks Huntinsker!


----------



## redyak3

redyak3 said:


> Awesome first pinstripe !!! Got a pic of the end loops tag-end served, the area I'm concerned about when I get to trying my first.


I guess whats confusing me is the lay-up of the three different colors and separation w/ golf tees. Once I get the three different threads actually on my jig I'll see how it'll all come together.
Nice work everyone!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> I guess whats confusing me is the lay-up of the three different colors and separation w/ golf tees. Once I get the three different threads actually on my jig I'll see how it'll all come together.
> Nice work everyone!!!


Here is a great pic posted by Ray Knight on how he lays and separates his pinstripes. The way I posted originally in this thread works but takes a little more chasing with a scrap piece of string material. That way still works really well if you're doing a single color string with a single pin like the Flo green with single black pinstripe that I posted. Ray's is much better for doing double stripes because it gets the pins on the outside of the bundle so you don't have to chase it near as much to pull it to the outside. I was going to show this process with the next string I build but I haven't had time just yet. Here's the link to Ray's post. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2145052&page=2&p=1068922444#post1068922444


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## broadheadnut

NOw that i am severely addicted to pinstripes i will be building another set for my buddies Max 1 Elite pulse. Im was thinking of doing Flo Green and Hunter Green with a Flo orange pinstripe...... What do you guys think? Anyone done one like that before?


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## buddy13

Whats a good 2 cam bow that shows off the strings older models.....Anyone


----------



## buddy13

broadheadnut said:


> NOw that i am severely addicted to pinstripes i will be building another set for my buddies Max 1 Elite pulse. Im was thinking of doing Flo Green and Hunter Green with a Flo orange pinstripe...... What do you guys think? Anyone done one like that before?


 No but if I buy one more color of 452x my morgage isnt going to get payed


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## buddy13

I did moutain berry black with a gold pin stripe


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## ibo73503

tagging for future reference


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Here is a great pic posted by Ray Knight on how he lays and separates his pinstripes. The way I posted originally in this thread works but takes a little more chasing with a scrap piece of string material. That way still works really well if you're doing a single color string with a single pin like the Flo green with single black pinstripe that I posted. Ray's is much better for doing double stripes because it gets the pins on the outside of the bundle so you don't have to chase it near as much to pull it to the outside. I was going to show this process with the next string I build but I haven't had time just yet. Here's the link to Ray's post. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2145052&page=2&p=1068922444#post1068922444


Thanks for the link!!!
Gotta save up a few pennies for either 452X or maybe try BCY-X. Still undecided about the serving, either Red or clear .017 Halo. Can't wait to try out my DIY server, instead of building a new jig thinking about elevating the jig to get more clearance.


----------



## broadheadnut

you gotta try rhino!



redyak3 said:


> Thanks for the link!!!
> Gotta save up a few pennies for either 452X or maybe try BCY-X. Still undecided about the serving, either Red or clear .017 Halo. Can't wait to try out my DIY server, instead of building a new jig thinking about elevating the jig to get more clearance.


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## jdggibson2011

Is is hard to build a string with a pin stripe


----------



## Huntinsker

jdggibson2011 said:


> Is is hard to build a string with a pin stripe


No not really. There are a few more tag ends to handle but that's it. You can do it pretty easily with the instructions on this thread and even if you just think it out. It's all about how you lay it out and how you separate the strands before twisting. Even if you look at the picture in the link I posted in post 453 on this page, you can see how to lay it out and how to separate it before twisting. Then it's just a matter of finishing the string like any other. You may need to use a scrap piece of string material to make sure you pinstripes are in the right place but that's really the only extra step.


----------



## archerm3

Huntinsker said:


> It shouldn't be a problem other than looking a little funny. I've heard some people claim higher speeds with a high twist rate string. *I personally don't see how that's possible because it would only mean that there is more material in the string making it a bit heavier.*
> 
> I agree about the Mathews strings. Kind of crazy having that much serving. Might as well just serve it all. I just finished a z7 string for a buddy at work. His blue string is 85% black. Why bother making a cool color combo when you won't see it anyway.


I just thought of a possible reason would be just like speek nocks...adding mass to the string allows the string to carry further forward before disengaging the arrow. Longer power stroke.


----------



## Huntinsker

archerm3 said:


> I just thought of a possible reason would be just like speek nocks...adding mass to the string allows the string to carry further forward before disengaging the arrow. Longer power stroke.


That may be true but speed nocks need to be placed in very specific locations on the string in order for them to work. I'm not sure an overall weight increase would increase speed.


----------



## buddy13

anyone now the proper way to put in a pin stripe.I know that there is a thread on it but not really step by step.I heard mention that you put 15 twist then un twist or pull out the strands do you put strand seperaters both ends or the same end your twisting? been making them nice but not perfect any help would be great thanks.


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> anyone now the proper way to put in a pin stripe.I know that there is a thread on it but not really step by step.I heard mention that you put 15 twist then un twist or pull out the strands do you put strand seperaters both ends or the same end your twisting? been making them nice but not perfect any help would be great thanks.


The link in post 453 of this thread takes you to a great picture that Ray Knight posted of how he lays them out. That is now how I lay them out too. I'm going to put in a more detailed description when I finally find time to make my new strings for my bow. 

You basically lay out one color, then lay out 2 or 4 strands of pinstripe color, then lay out the other primary color on top of that. Then use golf tees to separate them so that the pinstripes are on the outside of everything else before twisting. That way the lay right between the 2 primary colors when twisted. I still use a scrap piece of material to run it down and make sure it's laying just how I want it. This method works very well and is much faster than twisting and chasing the pinstripes down with a piece of material the whole way down the string.


----------



## buddy13

Do you put the golf tees on the end your twisting oposite end


Huntinsker said:


> The link in post 453 of this thread takes you to a great picture that Ray Knight posted of how he lays them out. That is now how I lay them out too. I'm going to put in a more detailed description when I finally find time to make my new strings for my bow.
> 
> You basically lay out one color, then lay out 2 or 4 strands of pinstripe color, then lay out the other primary color on top of that. Then use golf tees to separate them so that the pinstripes are on the outside of everything else before twisting. That way the lay right between the 2 primary colors when twisted. I still use a scrap piece of material to run it down and make sure it's laying just how I want it. This method works very well and is much faster than twisting and chasing the pinstripes down with a piece of material the whole way down the string.


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> Do you put the golf tees on the end your twisting oposite end


Both ends. That way the strands separate properly the entire length of the string.


----------



## redyak3

Been working on a new jig to accommodate the diy spinner. Welding is not my strongpoint but it sure is fun. Thanks to Rudyonthefly for his help. Gotta order a new spring from McMaster-Carr for the 3/4 all-thread and some threads from 60X and I can attempt a pinstripe.


----------



## droptine801

I have a piece of 3/4 cold roll is this thick enough for jig post or should I go 1" thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

droptine801 said:


> I have a piece of 3/4 cold roll is this thick enough for jig post or should I go 1" thanks


The stuff I used was only 1/2" thick so you're good. Make sure that it's at least 1.5" wide so you have enough material on each side of the threaded rod.


----------



## tomkat04

Great thread


----------



## 458win

Finally had to a chance to try out the new Jig. Works phenomenal. The length adjustment is dirt simple, simple matter of pulling the bolt and sliding one end or the other to the desired length and then fine tuning with the all thread. The tension also pulls from the center of the all thread so there is no binding or bending.


----------



## Huntinsker

Very very nice 458win. I've actually thought about grinding down some all thread like that to reduce binding and to make twisting a little smoother. Is that 5/8" or 3/4" all thread?


----------



## 458win

It's 3/4 all thread. I used a end mill on the ends for the radius but grinder would have worked just as well. Chevy valvespring inside is .806 so it is a perfect fit for .750 all thread. 

On next one I will probably just use 3/4 rod and thread my own adjustment range on it. It will look nicer and not have the sharp edges.


----------



## redyak3

Very nice!!! Great to see all these different ideas. I like the post ends as well. Can't wait to finish my new jig. Again, nice job for sure.


----------



## buddy13

WOW thats really nice


458win said:


> Finally had to a chance to try out the new Jig. Works phenomenal. The length adjustment is dirt simple, simple matter of pulling the bolt and sliding one end or the other to the desired length and then fine tuning with the all thread. The tension also pulls from the center of the all thread so there is no binding or bending.


----------



## ShawnRees

Peep Rotation Question....

I've been making Recurve strings for years. Relatively recently I've gotten into Compound sets. Every set I've made looks and functions awesomely well with the exception of two, one for a pro shooter who does some real funky stuff for tuning and my bow.

On my bow the spec for the end loop serving is 18.75" and I've been shorting it to 16" to show more string pattern and colour. I'm getting some wicked ass peep rotation. And, this is the only bow that happens with. All others have zero rotation.

Now, the question...

Can shorting the end serving cause this to happen?


----------



## Huntinsker

ShawnRees said:


> Peep Rotation Question....
> 
> I've been making Recurve strings for years. Relatively recently I've gotten into Compound sets. Every set I've made looks and functions awesomely well with the exception of two, one for a pro shooter who does some real funky stuff for tuning and my bow.
> 
> On my bow the spec for the end loop serving is 18.75" and I've been shorting it to 16" to show more string pattern and colour. I'm getting some wicked ass peep rotation. And, this is the only bow that happens with. All others have zero rotation.
> 
> Now, the question...
> 
> Can shorting the end serving cause this to happen?


No not if all else is okay with the string. The less serving there is, the better the chance of getting no peep rotation. If tension on both bundles is even and it's been properly stretched and rested both before serving and before installing on the bow, you shouldn't have much of a problem. The worst I ever had peep rotation was when I didn't give my string enough time to rest after twisting and after serving before installing on my bow. After that, I started letting them rest several hours before serving and then a whole day before putting them on my bow after serving. Since then I haven't had any more problems.

Another thing that could be an issue is if the finished diameter of the served areas are too large to fit properly in the cam groove. The biggest problem with that is typically serving separation but it could do some funny things to the peep I suppose.


----------



## redyak3

New jig and diy spinner worked nicely. After adding some balancing weight to the spinner she worked great with the Spigarelli. Tightest, most consistent serving that I've done yet, and fast. Can't say enough about that tool, as stated earlier the real spinner from BowBender is much nicer, and for the price a great deal. If you like building your own stuff, definitely something to think about. Worth building a jig with enough clearance to use such a tool. Thanks again Rudyonthefly.


----------



## Steve Jo

*Latest Improvements*

Here is my latest contribution to the thread
I have not been happy with the jig heads rotating when laying up the string or any other time that I did not want them rotating.

I found this to be an elegant and simple solution so thought I would share.

an 8" long 5/16 - 18 (Lowes has them) bolt
Hillman Bar knob 5/16 - 18








Drill through your all thread to allow the bolt to freely slide up and down. Drop it in and attach the bar knob so that it is on the down side when the string post is up








You can now use it for twisting, and when not in use, drop the bar knob end into the uni strut slot and it will prevent your jig head from roatating


----------



## automan26

I tried Nuts & Bolts method of sound tuning cables before installing them on the bow and it worked very well. The idea is that if both cables produce the same tone when plucked under tension, they should be the same length. I tried this this morning when installing a fresh set of cables and it worked fantastically. I stretched both cables under just enough tension (about 50# or so) to get them to pluck a tone and added or subtracted twists to get the tone as nearly the same on both cables as possible. When I installed them on the bow the cams were in perfect sync. In the blurry pic below you can see a row of very tiny orange dots that Bowtech put on the cam, just behind the cable, as sync marks. These dots are very very small and hard to see, but when I got my cables installed I had the exactly five dots above the cable on both the top and bottom cam. Absolute perfect cam synchronization on the first try.

Keep this trick in mind when you build your next set of cables.



It is sad that the pic is so washed-out looking. The flow orange and flo yellow colors really pop in real life, but in the pic they just look like flo yuck.

Automan


----------



## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> I tried Nuts & Bolts method of sound tuning cables before installing them on the bow and it worked very well. The idea is that if both cables produce the same tone when plucked under tension, they should be the same length. I tried this this morning when installing a fresh set of cables and it worked fantastically. I stretched both cables under just enough tension (about 50# or so) to get them to pluck a tone and added or subtracted twists to get the tone as nearly the same on both cables as possible. When I installed them on the bow the cams were in perfect sync. In the blurry pic below you can see a row of very tiny orange dots that Bowtech put on the cam, just behind the cable, as sync marks. These dots are very very small and hard to see, but when I got my cables installed I had the exactly five dots above the cable on both the top and bottom cam. Absolute perfect cam synchronization on the first try.
> 
> Keep this trick in mind when you build your next set of cables.


plucking strings to figure length is ridiculious, its not a trick, just measure the darn things..... it aint a guitar..... its way easier to just measure em and as accurate as you need.....and besides just cause there the same length doesnt always mean that the bow will be perfectly tuned when you install them. you still have to check draw stop timing regardless.... "plucking" strings.....LMAO


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## chenashot

dwagoner said:


> plucking strings to figure length is ridiculious, its not a trick, just measure the darn things..... it aint a guitar..... its way easier to just measure em and as accurate as you need.....and besides just cause there the same length doesnt always mean that the bow will be perfectly tuned when you install them. you still have to check draw stop timing regardless.... "plucking" strings.....LMAO


What do you care if someone wants to pluck strings. This is just another way for somebody to try to get strings to close spec. He never said it is the end all for tuning. Just that in this instance it worked out to a synched bow. Of course timing and synch needs to be checked. That always has to happen when doing strings, regardless if your strings came out to proper measurements or not. Basic bow tuning.

Automan is just trying to share his experiences and actually contribute to a very informative and useful thread.


----------



## automan26

I hear what you are saying, and value your opinion, but I do things one way and you do things another way; that's what makes AT so much fun.:wink:

Many bows have a draw stop on both the top and bottom cam; my Sentinel does not. The usual method of syncing the cams is to pull the bow till the draw stops contact the cables and adjust the cable lengths so that both cams hit the draw stops at the same time. With a single draw stop this is impossible so Bowtech provided the dots so the cams can be synced up and timed in the absence of a second draw stop. When I finish building the second cable and it has been stretched and relaxed and set to length, I find it easier to simply toss the first cable on the jig posts, right above the cable I have just finished and tone tune the cables so that when I put them on the bow I might not have to press the bow, remove and adjust a cable, relax the bow, pull the bow to full draw a second time, check the sync and, if need be, repeat the procedure again until I get everything synced correctly. I know this bow well enough to know the correct length to build the string and cables so as to get the proper ATA and BH so all that is left to do is sync the cams. Tone tuning takes all of 5 minutes if you take your time and go slowly. If you hit the mark on the first try, you are golden; if you miss you have wasted all of 5 minutes.

If you don't like this method that's fine, but I find that an extra 5 minutes on the string jig can't hurt anything. 

Automan


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## Huntinsker

I never thought about doing that but it makes a lot of sense. I have a guitar tuner that would be helpful in doing this. I'll have to give it a shot and see how it works. Can't hurt right?!


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## 3ddaddy

i had a set of flo orange and flo yellow and they do look really good i would say the pin stripe sets it off i had flo yellow serving but it looked like it was clear


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## redyak3

Good stuff Automan, thanks for contributing your findings. It's people like you that make this site so enjoyable!


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> I never thought about doing that but it makes a lot of sense. I have a guitar tuner that would be helpful in doing this. I'll have to give it a shot and see how it works. Can't hurt right?!


Give it a try. Keep in mind that you may not get a perfect tone match, but you can get very close. The more tension you use, the more sensitive the cables become, so keep the tones on a low frequency. You will come to a place where half a twist will take the cable tune from below the tone of the other cable to above the other tone. That is the place where I considere my cables tone tuned. As I mentioned above, five minitues is all it takes, so what is there to lose?

Automan


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## Steve Jo

Vibration frequency is a function of the tension the string is under, its length and its diameter (composition material being consistent)
If Diameter is the same and tension is EXACTLY the same, then you can use tone to tune for length which would give you cables that were very close to being the exact same length


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## Huntinsker

So I'm making a red/white with a black pinstripe for a guy so I'll post a detailed set of pictures of how I make it.


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## 2X_LUNG

Plz do. I'm trying one this week too


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## Huntinsker

Okay so here it is. 24 strand cable and 24 strand string. Cable is laid out 10 white, 2 black, 12 red. String is 10 red, 2 black, 12 white. Typically I like a 22 strand string out of 452x but this guy wanted 24. If I did a 22 strand it would have been 9 red, 2 black, 11 white. That would put 2 tags at one post and 4 at the other. One loop would have 50/50 of red/white and the other would be 50/50 black/red and white/red.

The "white" 452x is actually a color called Natural. It's not a bright white like 8190 or some of the other materials but they don't make "white" 452x, only natural. With other colors it doesn't look bad but next to an actual white colored material, you can see the difference.

Anyway here are the pics.

Here is the 1st half of the buss cable. You can see the 4 tag ends on one end for the, 10 white and 2 black, half of the cable.














Here is the string and how I separate the strands. You want the stripe to be outside of the other colors so that when you twist, it doesn't disappear into the middle of the bundle. Then separate the primary colors and sandwich the stripe between to golf tees so it stays separate from each primary color so it doesn't join one bundle or the other. The second pic is just my red/black string loop.














Here's the twisted and burnished string.


----------



## bingerarcher

Huntinsker said:


> Okay so here it is. 24 strand cable and 24 strand string. Cable is laid out 10 white, 2 black, 12 red. String is 10 red, 2 black, 12 white. Typically I like a 22 strand string out of 452x but this guy wanted 24. If I did a 22 strand it would have been 9 red, 2 black, 11 white. That would put 2 tags at one post and 4 at the other. One loop would have 50/50 of red/white and the other would be 50/50 black/red and white/red.
> 
> The "white" 452x is actually a color called Natural. It's not a bright white like 8190 or some of the other materials but they don't make "white" 452x, only natural. With other colors it doesn't look bad but next to an actual white colored material, you can see the difference.
> 
> Anyway here are the pics.
> 
> Here is the 1st half of the buss cable. You can see the 4 tag ends on one end for the, 10 white and 2 black, half of the cable.
> View attachment 1885229
> View attachment 1885232
> 
> 
> Here is the string and how I separate the strands. You want the stripe to be outside of the other colors so that when you twist, it doesn't disappear into the middle of the bundle. Then separate the primary colors and sandwich the stripe between to golf tees so it stays separate from each primary color so it doesn't join one bundle or the other. The second pic is just my red/black string loop.
> View attachment 1885234
> View attachment 1885238
> 
> 
> Here's the twisted and burnished string.
> View attachment 1885239


Looks great!!


----------



## bingerarcher

Steve Jo said:


> Vibration frequency is a function of the tension the string is under, its length and its diameter (composition material being consistent)
> If Diameter is the same and tension is EXACTLY the same, then you can use tone to tune for length which would give you cables that were very close to being the exact same length


I agree that you can get just a little closer to exact by sound tuning( consistency of the strands in the bundle). Remember, it's the end result that matters, not how you got to it.


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## wookie

3ddaddy said:


> i had a set of flo orange and flo yellow and they do look really good i would say the pin stripe sets it off i had flo yellow serving but it looked like it was clear


Flo Yellow with a black pinstripe and flo yellow serving


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## Huntinsker

Nice wookie! I like the single pinstripe look on a nice bright color.


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## wookie

Huntinsker said:


> Nice wookie! I like the single pinstripe look on a nice bright color.


Here are a few more, and a shot of my bench


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## automan26

*Rethinking serving winders*

I was sitting around tonight, thinking (or rethinking) about serving winders and I came up with an idea that I am sure I could make work if I wasn't so darn lazy. I am thinking about a design for a low profile serving winder made from PVC pipe. The pics below are the most basic, of basic ideas (I spent a whole 15 minutes thinking about it) and it has more bugs than a cockroach farm, but here is a basic idea if someone wants to take it and run. I am sure that any finished design will look differently from this basic starting point, but that's that's what engineering is all about.

All the areas shaded in blue are where material would be cut away. The serving tool would sit in the slots cut out of the sides and would sit low and across the string. Some sort of small hooks would be needed to hang the tool on the string and another hook would be needed on the front to change the direction of the serving from horizontal to vertical. I really doubt that end caps like what are seen in the pics would be needed; hooks might do the job easier and better. I know something like this could be made to work, but I am just not in the mood, but maybe someone else is looking for a good engineering project and wants to give it a try. My wife asked me if I was embarrassed to admit to the world that I am too lazy to figure this out myself, and I just smiled and said, "Not a chance."





















Automan


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## redyak3

wookie said:


> Here are a few more, and a shot of my bench
> 
> View attachment 1885826
> 
> 
> View attachment 1885827
> 
> 
> View attachment 1885828
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1885832


Very Nice work Wookie!!! Your string building station looks fantastic!


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## broadheadnut

These are a few cool ones i built this week


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## jhinaz

broadheadnut said:


> These are a few cool ones i built this week


Those look great! Nice work. - John


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## automan26

*Newbies Helping Newbies*

I am very impressed by the high quality strings that are being cranked out here by guys who are relative string building newbies. There are several guys watching this thread, teetering on the edge of jumping into this for themselves; let's give them that nudge they need. If anyone on this thread got started either as a result of building the jig I posted earlier on another thread or as a result of this great thread Huntinsker started, show the fence-sitters your stuff. Let us see your work and tell us how long it has been since you first took the plunge. Let these guys see how quickly they can be cranking out quality threads for themselves. This thread of Huntinsker's is the place to come if you want to enhance your archery experience, so post'em up and let's get others addicted to building their own threads.

*WARNING: STRING BUILDING IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE; WE DO NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOSE WHO START BUILDING STRINGS AND CAN'T STOP.
*
Automan


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## buddy13

I will try to take some pictures again,,I threw a few strings away but now I can make beautiful string and cable with pin stripes to length with little to no peep rotation.Not only am I confident enough to make them for my self I am making them for my friends.


----------



## buddy13




----------



## buddy13




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## bigbuckisamust

Question: how do you know how many strands to use for a particular draw weight and cam set up? where can I find this information?


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## 2X_LUNG

Those look sweet!

I just did a pinstripe buss cable tonight. It's decent. I'll be better next time!! Here it is...


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## npbow

mark


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## Huntinsker

Good looking threads guys! I'm liking what I'm seeing.


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## Huntinsker

bigbuckisamust said:


> Question: how do you know how many strands to use for a particular draw weight and cam set up? where can I find this information?


The strand count depends on several things. 1st, what material you're using and what the string material manufacturer recommends for that material. 2nd What you're building for and what kind of string. 3rd, personal preference. 

I personally build mostly with BCY 452x and use 22 strands on the string and 24 strands on the cables. Now I'm planning on making some custom threads for a target bow I'm building and I'm going to probably use 26 - 28 strands on the cables to make the back wall more solid. So that's the personal preference.

If you're building for compounds, it really doesn't matter what poundage, the strand count and materials are all pretty consistent. There is a guy on here shooting a 114lb custom built PSE and he uses 24 strand strings and cables of 452x and that's the same strand count and material that my buddies wife shoots on her 30lb Diamond Infinite Edge.


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## Steve Jo

Another development to my jig head.
I saw it posted here earlier though I dont remember who did, to use a thrust bearing.
This one was less than 4 dollars from mcmaster carr.

HUGE reduction in effort to stretch a string.
With the thrust bearing in place I can take the string to 300 pounds by hand, no longer needing a crecent wrench.


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## Huntinsker

Steve Jo said:


> Another development to my jig head.
> I saw it posted here earlier though I dont remember who did, to use a thrust bearing.
> This one was less than 4 dollars from mcmaster carr.
> 
> HUGE reduction in effort to stretch a string.
> With the thrust bearing in place I can take the string to 300 pounds by hand, no longer needing a crecent wrench.
> 
> View attachment 1889512


What's the part number on that thrust bearing? I've been going to get one but I didn't know if the 5/8" internal diameter bearings would actually fit over the 5/8" all thread or if it'd be too tight.


----------



## jhinaz

Huntinsker said:


> What's the part number on that thrust bearing? I've been going to get one but I didn't know if the 5/8" internal diameter bearings would actually fit over the 5/8" all thread or if it'd be too tight.


The ones that I bought from McMaster Carr are #6655K38, Steel Thrust Ball Bearing, Stainless Steel Washers, for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD.....they fit just fine. The price of this one is $5.15. - John


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## redyak3

Nice work gentlemen!!! Hopefully I can get an order out this friday for some thread. Thinking on ordering from Deezlin this time and including a string chart CD. Anyone out there have the chart cd, if so how d'ya like it? I added some bronze "flange bushings" to the jig heads to take up the slop of the 3/4 pipe-to- 3/4 all-thread. Had to grind the bushings a little to press fit into the pipe, now the all-thread thru pipe fit is just right. Hutch's BBQ "speed wheel" sure looks like a cool idea for the spinner.


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Nice work gentlemen!!! Hopefully I can get an order out this friday for some thread. Thinking on ordering from Deezlin this time and including a string chart CD. Anyone out there have the chart cd, if so how d'ya like it? I added some bronze "flange bushings" to the jig heads to take up the slop of the 3/4 pipe-to- 3/4 all-thread. Had to grind the bushings a little to press fit into the pipe, now the all-thread thru pipe fit is just right. Hutch's BBQ "speed wheel" sure looks like a cool idea for the spinner.


I have the CD and have found a couple charts that are incorrect. One caused me to completely remake the string because every serving was off 2.5" and when I tried to reserve, the material was fuzzy where it had been served. I never recommend not buying something you want but basically all the info that is on the CD is in the sticky in the Arrows and Strings forum. Just search that thread and you'll likely find everything you need.


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## Steve Jo

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6655k18/=qu4fsccg
$3.98
It is the 5/8th inch and it fits over the shaft nicely


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## Huntinsker

Had a question about my string clamps so I'll post the pics here. The only thing you need to really be careful of is to not hit the string material with the threads and to get it between the neoprene washers.














Since the first pic, I added another set of washers and wing nut to hold more tag ends while making some more complicated strings.


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## Huntinsker

jhinaz said:


> The ones that I bought from McMaster Carr are #6655K38, Steel Thrust Ball Bearing, Stainless Steel Washers, for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD.....they fit just fine. The price of this one is $5.15. - John





Steve Jo said:


> http://www.mcmaster.com/#6655k18/=qu4fsccg
> $3.98
> It is the 5/8th inch and it fits over the shaft nicely


Thanks guys. I've recently added a jam nut to my non-sprung end to make it a little easier to twist without losing tension. That combined with a thrust bearing is going to make twisting under tension nice and smooth.


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## 2X_LUNG

I bought one fore mine too. The bearing I had wasnt really sturdy enough. Thanks guys


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Had a question about my string clamps so I'll post the pics here. The only thing you need to really be careful of is to not hit the string material with the threads and to get it between the neoprene washers.
> View attachment 1890643
> View attachment 1890644
> 
> 
> Since the first pic, I added another set of washers and wing nut to hold more tag ends while making some more complicated strings.


Thanks for all your time and knowledge! I made one of your string holders, they work great, a must when using a moto-server of some sort. I like the added tag end holder option, good stuff.


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## broadheadnut

i have used the irwin quick grip clamps with the rubber coating. they grip the string quick, and you have the option to move them wherever you want fast since they are not connected to the uni strut.



redyak3 said:


> Thanks for all your time and knowledge! I made one of your string holders, they work great, a must when using a moto-server of some sort. I like the added tag end holder option, good stuff.


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## JF from VA

Is this the Quick Grip clamp you use, or is it the bar clamp variety?











broadheadnut said:


> i have used the irwin quick grip clamps with the rubber coating. they grip the string quick, and you have the option to move them wherever you want fast since they are not connected to the uni strut.


----------



## broadheadnut

http://www.emedco.com/irwin-quick-g...868686&pdv=c&gclid=CLX3oPC157wCFRQV7AodUB4Aeg

these ones!


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## Huntinsker

The reason I like a string clamp that's bolted down to the strut is mostly if you're using high speed serving spinner like the NW spinner or even a motoserver. If you get any bounce at all, the clamps that are anchored to the strut help to minimize it where clamps that aren't attached may bounce a bit with the string.


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## 2X_LUNG

thanks to huntinsker, I just finished my clamps. Here they are! Man, I love em!


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## 2X_LUNG




----------



## ShawnRees

Question...

If a string length is given as 60"... Is this a starting measurement or a result after twist and/or shrink?

May sound like a dumb question but I'm sure that somewhere on AT someone has already asked.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

There are charts for that question. I'll hafta get you a copy


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## 2X_LUNG




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## retrieverfishin

ShawnRees said:


> Question...
> 
> If a string length is given as 60"... Is this a starting measurement or a result after twist and/or shrink?
> 
> May sound like a dumb question but I'm sure that somewhere on AT someone has already asked.


Finished/given lengths are measured after twisting and serving and are measured under 100lbs of tension. You will need to add length when laying the strings out in order to hit those finished lengths. The chart above is a good starting point, but will vary depending on how you build. Layout tension, serving tension will all play a part in it. For me personally I add 1/16" per 16" of finished string length (i.e. 32" string, set jig to 32 1/8") Stretch, twist to 2/3 ratio (21 twists to aforementioned string) and before serving I want to be 1/16" short of finished length before serving. This is what works for my process and may not work for all.

Mike


----------



## Huntinsker

retrieverfishin said:


> Finished/given lengths are measured after twisting and serving and are measured under 100lbs of tension. You will need to add length when laying the strings out in order to hit those finished lengths. The chart above is a good starting point, but will vary depending on how you build. Layout tension, serving tension will all play a part in it. For me personally I add 1/16" per 16" of finished string length (i.e. 32" string, set jig to 32 1/8") Stretch, twist to 2/3 ratio (21 twists to aforementioned string) and before serving I want to be 1/16" short of finished length before serving. This is what works for my process and may not work for all.
> 
> Mike


I do much the same. Well some of that. I use the excel spreadsheet that Automan made up for the initial post setting but after getting my process down, I know how to tweak the post setting to fit my process. I also like the pre-served string to be about 1/16" short of the final length.


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## buddy13

i havent been burnishing seperate bundles just the whole thing seems shiner and holding its shape better


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## retrieverfishin

buddy13 said:


> i havent been burnishing seperate bundles just the whole thing seems shiner and holding its shape better


Some colors/materials need burnishing before twisting as there is so much wax in it the bundle will be much larger. Just use string material to burnish and do it lightly and you will retain the color and shape still.


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> i havent been burnishing seperate bundles just the whole thing seems shiner and holding its shape better


Ditto to retrieverfishin and I'll add that once the string gets warm, the colors will bleed together from the excess wax that's still inside the bundles. If you do a dark color with a light color, the dark color may bleed into the light making the string not look so nice.

You may also get serving separation if the wax causes the serving to slip especially if the bundle is larger than normal because of the extra wax.


----------



## retrieverfishin

Huntinsker said:


> Ditto to retrieverfishin and I'll add that once the string gets warm, the colors will bleed together from the excess wax that's still inside the bundles. If you do a dark color with a light color, the dark color may bleed into the light making the string not look so nice.
> 
> You may also get serving separation if the wax causes the serving to slip especially if the bundle is larger than normal because of the extra wax.


Good additions....I have one more! When you serve without burnishing properly you will get a lot of wax bleed through on certain colors. Looks very sloppy.


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## 2X_LUNG

What have you found to be the best material for burnishing??


----------



## retrieverfishin

2X_LUNG said:


> What have you found to be the best material for burnishing??


String material. I usually use the scraps from tying the end loops.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Using a dark over a light cause any issues as far as bleeding?


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> What have you found to be the best material for burnishing??


I used string material until I tried a scrap piece of .021 62xs serving. The string material broke down kind of quick and would wrap fibers of itself around the string making a little knot sometimes. I don't have that problem with the 62xs. I can also pull the serving tighter without it cutting me.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

That's what I use. The 62xs. Works great too


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## 2X_LUNG

I'm getting better at loops ends. Love using tag end technique.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

And two color is nearly a breeze now. Haha. Thanks to all you guys! Pinstripe perfection is next


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## Huntinsker

Good looking work 2X. That loop looks nice and tight. Won't be gaps on that one!


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## buddy13

After I strech them and twist and let them relax they are pretty much coming out the same length as what my starting set up.........help and I am put the 452x on posts tighht


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## buddy13

If I set the at 91 5/8 then stretch for an hour at 300 then relax over night 61 twists I end up 91 1/2//// why?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Too many twists. Or set the jig a little longer. It just takes time to get the formula perfect. Maybe the experts can chime in.


----------



## retrieverfishin

You need to develop your own formula. Especially if you are pulling them tight like you say. You are taking most of the stretch out of them when laying the string out. On a string that long with my layout tension I would set the jig 1/4" long put the same twists in and it would be within 4 twists of being on. Don't fight the layout to hit someone else's numbers, use those for reference, build with a consistant process, and develop your own repeatable system. Also, write things down for future reference.


----------



## buddy13

2X_LUNG said:


> Too many twists. Or set the jig a little longer. It just takes time to get the formula perfect. Maybe the experts can chime in.


 No I set posts for 91 5/8 stretch at twist and stretch let relax 65 twists or so then measure the next day after relax 91 1/2


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## 2X_LUNG

Let a few twists out and re measure.


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> No I set posts for 91 5/8 stretch at twist and stretch let relax 65 twists or so then measure the next day after relax 91 1/2


You have to tweak the formula for your needs. The longer the string, the shorter I set the posts compared to what the formula says. So let's say the excel spreadsheet says I need to set my posts to 100 inches on a 99 1/4" string. I know from my building method that I should set the posts about 3/16 shorter than what it says. Now if I'm doing a 32" cable I'll set it dead nuts on what it says. 

You just have to do what works for you. Don't be afraid to customize things. The formulas get you close but unless we all build exactly the same, they won't be perfect for everyone. If you know that your string is coming out only 1/8" shorter after stretching, set your jig according to your findings.


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## buddy13

um i think i am going to put all the crap i bought for this building on here for sale 10 th string i have ruined i have had it


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## Huntinsker

Well it's not for everyone but I think you can get it. You're just building them too long. That's not that hard of a fix. Just set your posts shorter. Like I said, I do it proportional to the final length of the string. The longer the string, the more material. The more material, the more it will be able to stretch. So a 90+ inch string, I set my posts about 3/16-1/4" short of what the formula says. I drop a 1/16" or so every 30 inches shorter. 

You just have to be able to adapt everything for your own build style. Don't be afraid to change stuff. Your strings aren't ruined, they just have a higher twist rate. Some people like a high twist rate and build that way on purpose. I like to have a lower twist rate so I changed my process to match my style. I think after the second string I built came out a little long so I had to put more twists in, I changed stuff.


----------



## buddy13

Boy,, I really thank you for your help.I guess I want the exact twist rate or nothing.Now don't get me wrong I have built some pretty strings.I have one on my bow , drenalin, and it doesnt twist peep stays straight.Oh I do love making the strings just getting pissed. I think i will need to set my posts to 92 1/2 to get to 92 1/4 with 65 twists.huntinsker tell me what you think of that ?I am going to wait to hear from you before I lay another one out.Thank you guys you been great bcy is going to make me customer of the year and my garbage man.


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## redyak3

Finally got the 3 color order in to 60x for BCY -X. Only black is in stock, says can't keep the X on the shelf. Hopefully the red and flo yellow will be in next week. Excited to attempt my first three color pinstripe, especially using X.


----------



## buddy13

redyak3 said:


> Finally got the 3 color order in to 60x for BCY -X. Only black is in stock, says can't keep the X on the shelf. Hopefully the red and flo yellow will be in next week. Excited to attempt my first three color pinstripe, especially using X.


Well I got the pin stripe down but my sizes are driving me crazy its pretty easy make sure your golf tees seperating the pin stripe are the last ones furthest away from the pins and seems to work better for me to preasure it up and as you twist it increases.To bad I got all solo cam bows so they end up getting served over.


----------



## redyak3

Thanks buddy13, Solocams here as well. Maybe I'll try the clear Halo when I get the pinstripes down.


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> Boy,, I really thank you for your help.I guess I want the exact twist rate or nothing.Now don't get me wrong I have built some pretty strings.I have one on my bow , drenalin, and it doesnt twist peep stays straight.Oh I do love making the strings just getting pissed. I think i will need to set my posts to 92 1/2 to get to 92 1/4 with 65 twists.huntinsker tell me what you think of that ?I am going to wait to hear from you before I lay another one out.Thank you guys you been great bcy is going to make me customer of the year and my garbage man.


When I plug 92 1/4" into my excel spreadsheet, I get 61 twists and an initial post setting of 92 63/64". For me personally, I'd probably put the posts closer to 92 3/4". That's what would work for my process and idiosyncrasies. 

From your previous posts, it seems that you're only coming down about 1/8", on a string over 90", after stretching and twisting. So if you're building a 92 1/4" string and we assume that after your stretch/rest time, you'll be 1/8" shorter, I'd put the posts about 92 3/8". That should get you to right around 92 1/4" after stretching and twisting. 

I personally like to have my strings a little short before serving. So if I'm making a 90" string, I'll want it 89 7/8" before serving. After serving, the string will end up VERY close if not right on 90". Partly because of the extra "stretch" time while at serving tension and partly because the serving literally squeezes the string causing it to lengthen a little bit. So if you also find that your strings are a little longer after serving, you may want to drop the initial post setting a little bit more.

I think I'll sit down and write out all my little tweaks and changes that I've made as my string building process has evolved. It probably wouldn't be something the people could follow to a "T" and have it work for them but it may turn on a light bulb and someone may be able to pick a piece that may work for them.


----------



## buddy13

Huntinsker said:


> When I plug 92 1/4" into my excel spreadsheet, I get 61 twists and an initial post setting of 92 63/64". For me personally, I'd probably put the posts closer to 92 3/4". That's what would work for my process and idiosyncrasies.
> 
> From your previous posts, it seems that you're only coming down about 1/8", on a string over 90", after stretching and twisting. So if you're building a 92 1/4" string and we assume that after your stretch/rest time, you'll be 1/8" shorter, I'd put the posts about 92 3/8". That should get you to right around 92 1/4" after stretching and twisting.
> 
> I personally like to have my strings a little short before serving. So if I'm making a 90" string, I'll want it 89 7/8" before serving. After serving, the string will end up VERY close if not right on 90". Partly because of the extra "stretch" time while at serving tension and partly because the serving literally squeezes the string causing it to lengthen a little bit. So if you also find that your strings are a little longer after serving, you may want to drop the initial post setting a little bit more.
> 
> I think I'll sit down and write out all my little tweaks and changes that I've made as my string building process has evolved. It probably wouldn't be something the people could follow to a "T" and have it work for them but it may turn on a light bulb and someone may be able to pick a piece that may work for them.


 how long does it take for a string to come out to its final measurement ,,,and thank you


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## caspian

buddy13 said:


> I guess I want the exact twist rate or nothing.


then unfortunately you're going to waste some materials getting there. it's an iterative process to figure out the relationship for your materials, style and tools.


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## Mordekyle

It is frustrating, Buddy. 

It seems like my cables come out just right when using the spreadsheet. 

On a 50 to 60 inch bowstring, it seems like they come out about 1/8 of an inch too long. 

On a long single cam string it seems they are 3/8 of an inch or even a half inch long.

We just have to compensate for this, and move the posts a little bit closer on the initial layout.


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> how long does it take for a string to come out to its final measurement ,,,and thank you


The longer the string the longer it needs to rest. I like to do over night on everything but if I'm in a hurry, I'll do a couple hours on the cables and as long as I can on the string. I won't rush so much that the string doesn't get at least 4 hours. If the guy needs it that bad, he'll have to get a bad string somewhere else. I don't put threads out that I wouldn't be confident to put on my bow. 

All of that is before serving. After serving I feel that the string needs a minimum of 8 hours to settle in again before being put on a bow. Only one time have I ever installed a string set on a bow the same day it was built. It rested about 2 hours total. That was the only string I've ever built that had peep rotation after 50 shots (even my first string had no peep twist after 30 shots. I was super careful and particular about my first strings). After that experience, I won't install a string the same day I make it.

In my perfect world of string building, I get the strings and cables stretched and twisted the first day. I let them rest over night and serve on the second day. I let them rest again over night and do the final measurement on the third day. I'm sure that's a bit of overkill on the resting times but I don't build high volume. I'm sure a lot of the good builders on here don't bother with that much resting time. I think they have the added "advantage" of shipping their strings to other places so they get rested while they are in the mail for a couple days. I personally install every string I make, to this point anyway, so I have to make sure their rested before they get on the bow.


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## buddy13

It seems like my cables come out just right when using the spreadsheet. 

On a 50 to 60 inch bowstring, it seems like they come out about 1/8 of an inch too long. yes yes your findings sound like mine i cant understand why we are so far off I used a tuna scale to adjust spring and they are perfect 

On a long single cam string it seems they are 3/8 of an inch or even a half inch long.

We just have to compensate for this, and move the posts a little bit closer on the initial layout.[/QUOTE]


----------



## buddy13

nnnnn


Mordekyle said:


> It is frustrating, Buddy.
> 
> It seems like my cables come out just right when using the spreadsheet.
> 
> On a 50 to 60 inch bowstring, it seems like they come out about 1/8 of an inch too long.
> It seems your having the same thing I am having if I use the spread sheet on the long string they arent even close I would really like to find out why its so different i count every turn so it isnt that i put the 452 x on tight when laying up so not that i even thought i may be useing to much preasure but i used one of my tuna buyers digital scale and they are dead nut 10 to 20 dolla r lb fish get weighed on it so gotta be on
> On a long single cam string it seems they are 3/8 of an inch or even a half inch long.
> 
> We just have to compensate for this, and move the posts a little bit closer on the initial layout.


----------



## buddy13

i keep trying to reply but it wont let me


----------



## buddy13

Ok I just built one set posts at 92 1/2 it came out to 92 3/8 how anyone can build to that chart and get things right is way way beyond my understanding it simply cant work!


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## redyak3

I use automan's spreadsheet and shorten 1/8 on cables and a short 1/4 on strings and go through the process. I also add some tension prior to making my end loops.Works for me.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

I would suggest getting familiar with one material and spend some time getting your calculations down. Initially it will take some wasted material but after that you will have a calculator that will be pretty spot on. Single cams are extra tough but you can do it!


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## buddy13

Hogwire Strings said:


> I would suggest getting familiar with one material and spend some time getting your calculations down. Initially it will take some wasted material but after that you will have a calculator that will be pretty spot on. Single cams are extra tough but you can do it!


been sticking with 452x and they are tough figures


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> Ok I just built one set posts at 92 1/2 it came out to 92 3/8 how anyone can build to that chart and get things right is way way beyond my understanding it simply cant work!


So you only lost 1/8". You're consistent which is what you need to be to be able to make changes to fit your build style. If you want a 92 1/4" string, you need to set your posts to 92 3/8". You'll lose the extra 1/8" and end up at your desired final length. 

The thing with a formula, calculator or a chart is that they don't take into account that the longer the string, the more it will stretch. An exaggerated example to illustrate this, if 10" of material stretches 0.25", 100" of material would stretch 2.5". Now that's a hypothetical and it shouldn't/doesn't stretch that much but you get the idea. So because of this, the longer the string the, less accurate the formula, calculator and chart will be. With experience, you'll get a feel for how much shorter you need to set the posts for each length of the string. 

So now, you're consistently building 1/8" shorter than your initial post setting for your 90+ inch string. Easy fix is to set your posts only 1/8" longer than your final string length for a 90+ length string. That's your necessary modification for those circumstances.


----------



## b0w_bender

buddy13 said:


> Ok I just built one set posts at 92 1/2 it came out to 92 3/8 how anyone can build to that chart and get things right is way way beyond my understanding it simply cant work!


I'm not sure how to write this without sounding defensive but it is and always has been my goal to help shorten the learning curve for new builders. Actually just like this thread does. So I have gone out of my way to be as clear as I can be about the tools I offer. So I am offering this info for clarity, so you know I'm honestly trying to be helpful.

*If we're talking about the NWSpinner chart (but this also goes for any chart), take a look at the top of the document and also on the webpage where you downloaded it from.*
_"These variables are related but are left independent so you can adjust them to your preferences, and experiences."_

*This is from the web page*
_"the Excel spreadsheet has changeable variables at the top that let you customize the calculator to incorporate your own experiences. By duplicating the workbook you can have a disparate calculation for each material and combination you use."_

[URL="http://nwspinner.com/images/docs/StringLength_and_twist.zip"]http://nwspinner.com/images/docs/StringLength_and_twist.zip[/URL]

So in my case it was fully understood that it would not work for all users in all situations with different equipment and all materials. That's the same for any chart you find. In general, twisting a string does several things it adjusts the length of the string and helps hold the fibers together as the bow is shot. The number of twists is a rough rule of thumb not a hard and fast requirement. Not everyone uses the same number of twists per inch, opinions very on that. Most shops will use string and cable twists to adjust timing and draw length, that's common. So... it's always a good idea to check your length before you apply the final serving so you can add or subtract a few twists to hit your desired length. You may find it helpful to duplicate the workbook tab in excel and then change the calculation for strings over a specific length. I agree most of the strings I build are in between 45" and 60" I use 450+ and trophy and although with my press and my posts it is very accurate, I had no misconceptions that it would be the same for everyone. It was always meant to be simply a starting point.

Don't get too wrapped around the axle, so to speak... just add a few more twists to the longer strings.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and shoot straight.


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## buddy13

I just layed one up 92 3/8 hair over lets see what it ends up being 61 twists my string are beautiful except for the lengths driving me nuttier than i am allready


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## redyak3

With the string calculator I use I get 69 twists for the 91-5/8" string for the Drenalin that's going to get some pinstripes.
Maybe that's it ???

STRING JIG CALCULATOR 

FINISHED LENGTH TWISTS	JIG POST SETTING 
91.63 68.71875 92.449625	

For a 92-1/4" finished length, calculator reads:

STRING JIG CALCULATOR 

FINISHED LENGTH TWISTS	JIG POST SETTING 
92.25 69.1875 93.08025	

Big difference in number of twists, 61 vs 69


----------



## b0w_bender

redyak3 said:


> With the string calculator I use I get 69 twists for the 91-5/8" string for the Drenalin that's going to get some pinstripes.
> Maybe that's it ???
> 
> STRING JIG CALCULATOR
> 
> FINISHED LENGTH TWISTS	JIG POST SETTING
> 91.63 68.71875 92.449625
> 
> For a 92-1/4" finished length, calculator reads:
> 
> STRING JIG CALCULATOR
> 
> FINISHED LENGTH TWISTS	JIG POST SETTING
> 92.25 69.1875 93.08025
> 
> Big difference in number of twists, 61 vs 69


Yup if that's a .75 twists per inch with a 1.009 length variable, if you plug those numbers into the NWSpinner sheet it reads the same. A perfect indication of how different folks choose different build processes. Personally I don't think 8 twists difference over a 90" string is all that much.


----------



## buddy13

would the pin stripes change the final length?I just layed one out just over 92 3/8 came out perfect 92 1/4 61 twists


b0w_bender said:


> Yup if that's a .75 twists per inch with a 1.009 length variable, if you plug those numbers into the NWSpinner sheet it reads the same. A perfect indication of how different folks choose different build processes. Personally I don't think 8 twists difference over a 90" string is all that much.


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## buddy13

i am getting it maybe ...I havent found this string calculator but would love to


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## buddy13

I got one of your nw spinners and they work great by the way.Its funny all my buddies hunt some shoot bigger deer than me some are better shots than me.But they have no idea how to tune a bow build a string forget it.They loose a fletching they come over my house peeps out of line the same....Just thinking out loud!!


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## automan26

b0w_bender said:


> Yup if that's a .75 twists per inch with a 1.009 length variable, if you plug those numbers into the NWSpinner sheet it reads the same. A perfect indication of how different folks choose different build processes. Personally I don't think 8 twists difference over a 90" string is all that much.


l totally agree about adding 8 twists over 90 inches. Some are getting overly concerned about hitting the exact finished lenght with the perfect number of twists. If the calculator gets you close, you still have room to add or remove twists as needed. On a 90 inch string there is plenty of room to add at least 10 twists with absolutely no problems at all.

Automan


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## 2X_LUNG

Bow bender, check your inbox


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## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> i am getting it maybe ...I havent found this string calculator but would love to


PM me your email address and I'll email you the excel version that Automan sent to me when I started building.


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> PM me your email address and I'll email you the excel version that Automan sent to me when I started building.


Yup, the numbers I posted is from Automan's calculator, great tool for sure.


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## retrieverfishin

I see a lot of posts looking for magic formulas on here to hit exact numbers.....The NW spinner chart is excellent for giving you the number of twists. As for hitting the lengths with those twists try this:

Make 3 strings. One at 35", one at 60" and one at 90". Those are post set lengths. Go through your process and add twists to them per the chart. WRITE DOWN YOUR RESULTS. Use those numbers to formulate your own length additions. For me it is 1/8". 3/16" and 1/4" for those numbers. You may be different, but this will give you hard numbers you can adapt to upcoming builds and the resulting string will be within a couple of twists of perfect.


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## MIBuckmagnet

tag for later


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## 2X_LUNG

Hit a pinstripe today. This is prior to burnishing!! I think I got er down pretty good!!!


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## Huntinsker

retrieverfishin said:


> I see a lot of posts looking for magic formulas on here to hit exact numbers.....The NW spinner chart is excellent for giving you the number of twists. As for hitting the lengths with those twists try this:
> 
> Make 3 strings. One at 35", one at 60" and one at 90". Those are post set lengths. Go through your process and add twists to them per the chart. WRITE DOWN YOUR RESULTS. Use those numbers to formulate your own length additions. For me it is 1/8". 3/16" and 1/4" for those numbers. You may be different, but this will give you hard numbers you can adapt to upcoming builds and the resulting string will be within a couple of twists of perfect.


Good post. There are no exacts in this process because everything is dependent on the differences in each persons techniques. There is a "+/-" in the number of twists in each string. Even 10 twists in or out of a 90" string will not make a huge difference in how it looks or performs.

That's one reason I like to build with a lower twist rate. If I come out a little long on the final length, I can just add a few twists and move on with the build.


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## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Hit a pinstripe today. This is prior to burnishing!! I think I got er down pretty good


Looks good! Should look great once it's burnished and shined up a bit.


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## 2X_LUNG

Just wish the 452x white was a bright white. Ughhhhhh


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## BarebowBowtech

Just built a jig like yours only I used an air ram for the tension. what type of sting material do you normally use? Using your formula for the start length I only end up with 3/4's of the twists your formula said? I'm using Fast Flight Pro, 16 strands. What material do you recommend?


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## 2X_LUNG

BarebowBowtech said:


> Just built a jig like yours only I used an air ram for the tension. what type of sting material do you normally use? Using your formula for the start length I only end up with 3/4's of the twists your formula said? I'm using Fast Flight Pro, 16 strands. What material do you recommend?


I'm pretty new to this and I've been using bcy 452x and the new X material. I've made several sets now and me and my friends bows are shooting excellent. I'm using 20-24 strands for the strings...depending on bow, and 24 strands for all cables. 

The peeps are opening up perfectly and this string building is super fun, but addictive


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## dfII

Just finished my jig. Nothing like yours but i will be using these instructions for building strings. Once i get the parts in for a bow i'm "building" out of various parts from several manufacturers i will try the string building process. They both kind of depend on eachother. Thanks for the info


----------



## automan26

dfII said:


> Just finished my jig. Nothing like yours but i will be using these instructions for building strings. Once i get the parts in for a bow i'm "building" out of various parts from several manufacturers i will try the string building process. They both kind of depend on eachother. Thanks for the info


So, you are going to take a string you built yourself on a jig you built yourself and put it on a bow you built yourself. That is what I call DIY.

Automan


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## 2X_LUNG

That is awesome!!


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## Huntinsker

BarebowBowtech said:


> Just built a jig like yours only I used an air ram for the tension. what type of sting material do you normally use? Using your formula for the start length I only end up with 3/4's of the twists your formula said? I'm using Fast Flight Pro, 16 strands. What material do you recommend?


As far as material, I like 452x but you can use other materials with no problems. I haven't used Fast Flight for compound strings because there are more modern, and generally better materials that have been made. I'm not sure about your formula though. If you multiply your desired finished length by your twist rate, that gives you the twists. Since I like fewer twists in my threads, I use .66 as my twist rate. So for a 100" string, I use 100 x .66 = 66 twists. Then take our number of twists times the arbitrary number that people have found to be close, and then add that to your desired final length. So in this case that arbitrary number is .012. So we take 66 x .012 = .792 Now we add that to 100 to get 100.792" for the initial post setting.

100 x .66 = 66 66 x .012 = .792 .792 + 100 = 100.792


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## Huntinsker

dfII said:


> Just finished my jig. Nothing like yours but i will be using these instructions for building strings. Once i get the parts in for a bow i'm "building" out of various parts from several manufacturers i will try the string building process. They both kind of depend on eachother. Thanks for the info


Very cool. One benefit from making your own threads is that you can do projects like this. Typically there is some experimenting with string and cable lengths when you're making a frankenbow. That could get really expensive if you're paying for your strings to be made for you. 3 or 4 sets later you may get it to where you like it and that could mean big bucks.


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## buddy13

I been hitting the mark finally it was frustrating at first.Kind when your sighting in iron site when your young to far left to far right.Box of bullets gone. SMR has a great idea that would answer all your fears wish i had of done that in the first place,


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## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> I been hitting the mark finally it was frustrating at first.Kind when your sighting in iron site when your young to far left to far right.Box of bullets gone. SMR has a great idea that would answer all your fears wish i had of done that in the first place,


Glad you got it squared away. I'm sorry you had some troubles getting your build process figured out but it created a lot of good discussion that I think will help others. Thanks for asking the questions.


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## buddy13

I thank everyone on here for helping me my string are not only beautiful but awsome .....Not bragging just stating fact and the learning curve was short and small.........Thanks to everyone on this thread I have no fear to make a string for anything any color that is as close to perfect as can be.A month ago I had no idea 4 post jig,,Why do they twist?How do they make to color?Now I got it....THANKS


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## redyak3

Working on my first attempt, buss cable, 6-1-5. Definitely a little more involved. I'll get it...eventually. Practice, practice, practice


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## redyak3

The more I look at it the more I don't like it... going to try plugging in Huntinsker's .66 twist rate variable instead of .75 and see what happens. Sure wish I could find those fancy golf tees.:tongue:


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## redyak3

Started over and I like the .66 twist rate better, thanks Huntinsker! The BCY-X is nice, feels different doing tag ends than the 452X maybe just me. Finishes nicer imo.


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## Huntinsker

Looks great red! I like that color combo too. Looks pretty sharp. The reason I went to the .66 twist rate is when I started building, if figured that if I was going to miss with my length, I was going to come out too long. So I figured I'd use fewer twists initially incase I needed to put more in. What I found was, for me, I didn't get as much stretch using that formula because there is just a little less material used. So now they come out perfect.


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## jhinaz

Waaay back near the beginning of this thread (post #20) Huntinsker responded to a question about ‘different ways to achieve end results’.



Huntinsker said:


> I hadn't planned on it. The 2 post jig somewhat limits how many ways you can build a string. I've been trying to think of a way to make an adapter to this jig to allow you to serve your end loops if you want but haven't had a lot of time to do it. I also haven't come up with a good enough adapter. All this was designed to do is to compile instructions to one of the easiest methods for the everyday guy that wants to learn how.


Then (post #22) Robert43 describes using a Beiter / Bohning center serving jig (the item like a big U) to do end-servings but I don’t remember any other methods being offered.

Before reading Huntinsker’s ‘Comprehensive’ thread I had always served my end-loops. Now I really like the ‘2-post jig’ and I think I prefer using the tag-wrap method. However, I still want the ability to serve the loops, so after a few iterations I decided on an adapter.

It uses (2) Red Head 6” x ½” Sleeved Anchor Bolts, (2) ½” Coupling Nuts, (2) ½” bolts with heads removed (or ½” all-thread), (3) ½”-13 strut bolts and nuts, and a 12”x2”x1/2” steel bar. As an option, you can add 2 short-lengths of strut under the steel bar to lock-in the 90 degree angle (or if you want a little more versatility, replace the 2 short-lengths of strut with a ‘4-hole strut connector’......it's also more costly and more labor intensive). - John


----------



## Huntinsker

jhinaz said:


> Waaay back near the beginning of this thread (post #20) Huntinsker responded to a question about ‘different ways to achieve end results’.
> 
> 
> Then (post #22) Robert43 describes using a Beiter / Bohning center serving jig (the item like a big U) to do end-servings but I don’t remember any other methods being offered.
> 
> Before reading Huntinsker’s ‘Comprehensive’ thread I had always served my end-loops. Now I really like the ‘2-post jig’ and I think I prefer using the tag-wrap method. However, I still want the ability to serve the loops, so after a few iterations I decided on an adapter.
> 
> It uses (2) Red Head 6” x ½” Sleeved Anchor Bolts, (2) ½” Coupling Nuts, (2) ½” bolts with heads removed (or ½” all-thread), (3) ½”-13 strut bolts and nuts, and a 12”x2”x1/2” steel bar. As an option, you can add 2 short-lengths of strut under the steel bar to lock-in the 90 degree angle (or if you want a little more versatility, replace the 2 short-lengths of strut with a ‘4-hole strut connector’......it's also more costly and more labor intensive). - John


Very cool. Thanks for posting and showing the parts list! This thread is getting better and better every day!


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## 2X_LUNG

Starting another. Turning out awesome too!


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## 2X_LUNG

just realized how awful my phone takes pics....geez. It looks so much nicer in person!


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## NoDeerInIowa

Looks pretty darn good in the pic.


----------



## dfII

Awesome stuff on here guys. I have a question that is possibly a dumb one but i'm good at that. Why are all jigs made to have the strings horizontally across from eachother rather that vertically? There is probably a great reason but i was thinking of space conservation in my garage. There is likely something i'm missing but you could prettly much mount one to your wall and be able to work both sides. I built mine the normal way but got to thinking about that.


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Looks great red! I like that color combo too. Looks pretty sharp. The reason I went to the .66 twist rate is when I started building, if figured that if I was going to miss with my length, I was going to come out too long. So I figured I'd use fewer twists initially incase I needed to put more in. What I found was, for me, I didn't get as much stretch using that formula because there is just a little less material used. So now they come out perfect.


Thanks!!! If it weren't for all the sharing of ideas here, in particular you, and Automan who started me going on this "addictive" aspect of archery, I'd be lost...
Keep up the good work all!!!


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## Huntinsker

dfII said:


> Awesome stuff on here guys. I have a question that is possibly a dumb one but i'm good at that. Why are all jigs made to have the strings horizontally across from eachother rather that vertically? There is probably a great reason but i was thinking of space conservation in my garage. There is likely something i'm missing but you could prettly much mount one to your wall and be able to work both sides. I built mine the normal way but got to thinking about that.


I've made single cam strings that are over 100" long. If you were to put those vertically, you'd be going up and down a ladder to build it. The simple answer is that while it may save space, it's not very practical to build vertically.


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## dfII

Shoot. I said that wrong. What I meant was to have the posts stick out at a 90 from a wall or bench or whatever straight at you.


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## Huntinsker

dfII said:


> Shoot. I said that wrong. What I meant was to have the posts stick out at a 90 from a wall or bench or whatever straight at you.


Oh, that wouldn't be a problem.


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## 2X_LUNG

Figured I'd share a little trick I use to separate the string while I do my tag ends. Works great. It's a cleanout tip for a campers water lines.


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## 2X_LUNG

I got the serving toward the loop down! Gosh, it's so much better too!!


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## chenashot

2X_LUNG said:


> I got the serving toward the loop down! Gosh, it's so much better too!!


Looking great man! Nice and clean


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## Huntinsker

Looks great 2X.


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## dfII

That is awesome. Can't wait to start this. Just waiting on limbs and hoping everything goes together then i'll try a string or ten to get it to work. Would it be ok to put some pics on this thread. I'll be using your technique the best i can.


----------



## Huntinsker

dfII said:


> That is awesome. Can't wait to start this. Just waiting on limbs and hoping everything goes together then i'll try a string or ten to get it to work. Would it be ok to put some pics on this thread. I'll be using your technique the best i can.


Not only would it be good but pics are encouraged :smile: We like to see what others come up with incase we can learn something new.


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## redyak3

Nice and clean for sure, good work!


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## RobColella

Looks amazing. What size and type serving did you use? Did you use the pull through method or something else?


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## 2X_LUNG

RobColella said:


> Looks amazing. What size and type serving did you use? Did you use the pull through method or something else?


That was bcy 3d in .014. Yes it's the pull thru serving toward the loop. It's so easy n clean. I won't go any other way from now on


----------



## RobColella

2X_LUNG said:


> That was bcy 3d in .014. Yes it's the pull thru serving toward the loop. It's so easy n clean. I won't go any other way from now on


Thank you for the info. I'm strictly building recurve bowstrings for myself, but have learned a great deal from this forum thread and incorporate many of the ideas into my own strings and jig.


----------



## RobColella

2X_LUNG said:


> That was bcy 3d in .014. Yes it's the pull thru serving toward the loop. It's so easy n clean. I won't go any other way from now on


On another note, I would really like to see some close-ups of the string jig and any other items you use to build your strings. Great work and have definitely enjoyed following your posts.


----------



## redyak3

The cam on my DXT and Drenalin are really tough on buss cable servings. Wore thru 3d "pretty" easily, Halo much better. Read on arrow and strings that Majesty holds up the best for solocams, so I put that on my first pinstripe, we'll see how she goes. Huntinsker's tip on pull-thru at the end loop is a good one!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

redyak3 said:


> The cam on my DXT and Drenalin are really tough on buss cable servings. Wore thru 3d "pretty" easily, Halo much better. Read on arrow and strings that Majesty holds up the best for solocams, so I put that on my first pinstripe, we'll see how she goes. Huntinsker's tip on pull-thru at the end loop is a good one!


Great point. I use same on solos.


----------



## redyak3

Got a new scale to recheck my jig tension. 1/4" post snapped at 410#. Wonder if roll pins mentioned in an earlier post would be better. Perhaps stopping @ 380 is best.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Mine snapped too. I used a stainless steel pin. Not brittle and will bend before breaking.


----------



## 2X_LUNG




----------



## redyak3

Wow... what poundage did your pin fail? Guess this puts a little damper on things for me until I go to the hardware store. Might try the roll pin, saves time in not tapping.


----------



## Huntinsker

I made sure to use grade 8 bolts. I actually just bought new posts from Bolt Depot. I got grade 8 chrome bolts. I've had my jig up to 500lbs no problem with the grade 8 bolts.


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> I made sure to use grade 8 bolts. I actually just bought new posts from Bolt Depot. I got grade 8 chrome bolts. I've had my jig up to 500lbs no problem with the grade 8 bolts.


I wanted grade 8, 1/4"x20, couldn't find them locally. Bolt depot an online store?


----------



## redyak3

Just saw Bolt Depot online, hope their shipping to Hawaii is "reasonable"... Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

This is what I got. Part # 9354 Socket cap (smooth), Chrome plated grade 8 steel, 1/4"-20 x 2-1/4". If I were to do it again, I'd get the 1 3/4". The 2 1/4" had more threads than I thought. It's not a problem but the threads stick out the bottom some.


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> This is what I got. Part # 9354 Socket cap (smooth), Chrome plated grade 8 steel, 1/4"-20 x 2-1/4". If I were to do it again, I'd get the 1 3/4". The 2 1/4" had more threads than I thought. It's not a problem but the threads stick out the bottom some.


Yup, that's what I just ordered, 5bucks and change shipping is good, just hope it gets here soon. I got the 2-1/4 so I'd have more post when doing the buss cable legs as I leave the first leg on instead of taking it off when doing the other.


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Yup, that's what I just ordered, 5bucks and change shipping is good, just hope it gets here soon. I got the 2-1/4 so I'd have more post when doing the buss cable legs as I leave the first leg on instead of taking it off when doing the other.


I leave my first leg on too. You'll have plenty of room for that.


----------



## automan26

I find it interesting that some are experiencing breakage issues with the post bolts. When I build the jigs in this pic, I make a short 18" test string, set the non-sprung head for maximum tension adjustment then pull it way past coil bind until I get a truly frightening tension in the string and let it set like that over night. I pull that test string so tightly that I am actually afraid the string will explode and I have never had a problem. I give it all the tension the jig can put out and I am confident that I am pulling over 450 pounds. I have done this with at least 5 jigs and I am sure I am not purchasing grade 8 bolts. This is why I am so interested in the breakage problems others are having.

Automan


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I believe while mine was stretching I failed to push the loop to the bottom. It slid up and pop!!! 

I was not in the garage thank goodness


----------



## automan26

That would do it. On my jigs I have to angle the all-thread down slighily in the back to counter the downward pull from the string which causes the loop to climb the post. Maybe you could use a shorter grade 8 bolt.

Automan.


----------



## Steve Jo

AWESOME! Stealing 


2X_LUNG said:


> Figured I'd share a little trick I use to separate the string while I do my tag ends. Works great. It's a cleanout tip for a campers water lines.


----------



## JJSREEZEN

First string. This was a test to see how my layout would work and what formula I would have to use for building my own strings. I can tell you burnishing makes the string look awesome, well my opinion it does


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Steve Jo said:


> AWESOME! Stealing


Here's another. Works awesome!


----------



## redyak3

automan26 said:


> I find it interesting that some are experiencing breakage issues with the post bolts. When I build the jigs in this pic, I make a short 18" test string, set the non-sprung head for maximum tension adjustment then pull it way past coil bind until I get a truly frightening tension in the string and let it set like that over night. I pull that test string so tightly that I am actually afraid the string will explode and I have never had a problem. I give it all the tension the jig can put out and I am confident that I am pulling over 450 pounds. I have done this with at least 5 jigs and I am sure I am not purchasing grade 8 bolts. This is why I am so interested in the breakage problems others are having.
> 
> Automan


The post failure this morning happened when checking tension with my new scale. Found some grade 8 1/4x20 bolts and cut off the hex head. Back to twisting some threads, hooray...


----------



## Rudyonthefly

redyak3 said:


> Got a new scale to recheck my jig tension. 1/4" post snapped at 410#. Wonder if roll pins mentioned in an earlier post would be better. Perhaps stopping @ 380 is best.


Let me guess, the bolt snapped just where the threads end... It is the weakest point for two reasons: A) the diameter at the bottom of the thread grove is less than 1/4 in and the machining of them leaves sharp contours = weak area and stress origins. B) if you screwed your bolt tight into your threads in the nut, you have pre-loaded the area where the threads end. Combine that with your string sliding up on the post, it will break at those loads. I have loaded my 1/4 in roll pin post ( string at the base ) to over 500 lbs with no bending, deformation or failure ( I used 3/4 in grade 8 all thread components in my string jig ).

As automan stated, it's important to keep the string at the base of the posts ( I tie them down with some scrap string material so that they can't slide up). Some people keep the crank end of the all thread lower - trapping the string at the base of the post and nut because the post ends up inclined away from the string loop acting like a hook.

Use of 1/4 in spring steel roll pins saved me tapping the nut and all thread. (Not because I had no taps - just because I like to find the path of least resistance). They are of uniform strength along the entire length ( unlike the thread to shank transition on a bolt ). The roll pin "clamps" itself in the hole by compressing slightly in diameter as you drive it in.

If I were to use a bolt, I would cut off all the threads and just use the shank. I'd secure it with a little tack weld at the underside of the nut.
The no-weld solution would be to flatten the end that goes through the nut slightly oval to achieve an interference fit in your 1/4 in hole (use a hammer to flatten and then drive it in). It would have to be just enough to keep the bolt from sliding out.

The force acting on the post is a shear force so your bolt / roll pin has little tendency to come out of its hole.

Nice looking string jig by the way.

Cheers, Rudy


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Did another pinstripe! Love the colors! How's it look


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks good 2X. I like that color combo too. I think each of these colors, flo green, flo orange and flo yellow, with silver and a black pinstrip look really sharp.


----------



## retrieverfishin

Huntinsker said:


> Looks good 2X. I like that color combo too. I think each of these colors, flo green, flo orange and flo yellow, with silver and a black pinstrip look really sharp.


Any color works great with that combo! Red, blue, tan etc....around here we call that captain's choice!


----------



## Hogwire Strings

I love these color combos!


----------



## Huntinsker

Just got a sample of the new Fury material from the guys at Brownell. Can't wait to have time to build a set and see how it performs!


----------



## chenashot

Huntinsker said:


> Just got a sample of the new Fury material from the guys at Brownell. Can't wait to have time to build a set and see how it performs!


I build exclusively with Fury. It builds an amazing string. You'll love it.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

How do I get a sample


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Just call Brownell, they will send you a sample pack. I am using Rhino right now and im thinking of adding Fury to the mix.... cant beat their stuff in my opinion!



2X_LUNG said:


> How do I get a sample


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thanks guys! Got a sample coming!


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Im sure you will like it, stuff is money!!!!



2X_LUNG said:


> Thanks guys! Got a sample coming!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I'm jacked up to try it


----------



## redyak3

Finally finished debugging my jig to my liking. There was way too much flex in the unistrut under high tension. Welded a 1/4"x1-1/2" piece of flatstock as a stiffener and it did the job. Compressing the spring by a 1/2" gives me 523# of tension w/o binding or flexing issues. Hopefully my strings will turn out almost as nice as you guys' work.


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Finally finished debugging my jig to my liking. There was way too much flex in the unistrut under high tension. Welded a 1/4"x1-1/2" piece of flatstock as a stiffener and it did the job. Compressing the spring by a 1/2" gives me 523# of tension w/o binding or flexing issues. Hopefully my strings will turn out almost as nice as you guys' work.


Nice redhak3. Any flex in the strut will cause problems. When I first started I had a string slip up and off the posts on me. It didn't do any damage to anything but the sound it made made my wife scared for my safety haha. I figured I better fix that flexing ASAP so I added the second piece of strut.


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Nice redhak3. Any flex in the strut will cause problems. When I first started I had a string slip up and off the posts on me. It didn't do any damage to anything but the sound it made made my wife scared for my safety haha. I figured I better fix that flexing ASAP so I added the second piece of strut.


Yup, I think flex is what caused the loop to slide up. Add a thrust bearing and I think the "El-Cheapo on steroids" will be done.


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Yup, I think flex is what caused the loop to slide up. Add a thrust bearing and I think the "El-Cheapo on steroids" will be done.


I added this bearing from McMaster Carr to my jig and it twists smooth as silk now. It's capable of handling 2100lbs and a max of 11,000 rpm. I think that'll fit into your jig on roids.

1 5909K32 Cage Assembly for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 3.02

2 5909K45 .032" Thick Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 2


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> I added this bearing from McMaster Carr to my jig and it twists smooth as silk now. It's capable of handling 2100lbs and a max of 11,000 rpm. I think that'll fit into your jig on roids.
> 
> 1 5909K32 Cage Assembly for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 3.02
> 
> 2 5909K45 .032" Thick Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 2


Followed your advice and ordered part # 5909k33, cage assembly for 3/4" shaft, with the .032 washers. And #2781T92, a 5" wheel for the diy spinner ala hutch's speed wheel. Really like McMaster-Carr.


----------



## automan26

redyak3 said:


> Yup, I think flex is what caused the loop to slide up. Add a thrust bearing and I think the "El-Cheapo on steroids" will be done.


"El-Cheapo on steroids". I love it! !!!
Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Guys I've got my first Fury cable on my jig stretching and I can say that this material is AWESOME! It feels so much better than 452x or 8190 when you're wrapping tag ends. The loops come out nicer and tighter than with either 452x or 8190 and my transitions and back served tag ends have never been smoother or smaller. I'm loving the small diameter fiber. I don't know how to explain this material but it's much smoother than the BCY fibers I've built with. It almost feels like an extruded plastic when it's at tension. It's so smooth and just feels great. If it performs as good as my 452x sets have, I have no doubt that I'll be changing over, for my own stuff at least.


----------



## chenashot

Huntinsker said:


> Guys I've got my first Fury cable on my jig stretching and I can say that this material is AWESOME! It feels so much better than 452x or 8190 when you're wrapping tag ends. The loops come out nicer and tighter than with either 452x or 8190 and my transitions and back served tag ends have never been smoother or smaller. I'm loving the small diameter fiber. I don't know how to explain this material but it's much smoother than the BCY fibers I've built with. It almost feels like an extruded plastic when it's at tension. It's so smooth and just feels great. If it performs as good as my 452x sets have, I have no doubt that I'll be changing over, for my own stuff at least.


Welcome to the club my friend! Both Fury and Rhino are outstanding materials. The way they finish is amazing. As far as performance, the fury is as stable as 452x so it holds a tune amazingly, and at the shot, it feels much softer. Soft like 8190 type of feel. Shooting Fury for cables and string is like having 452x cables and 8190 string, all with one material. The new BCY X is very similar in that it does both well, but the Fury finishes nicer.


----------



## Huntinsker

chenashot said:


> Welcome to the club my friend! Both Fury and Rhino are outstanding materials. The way they finish is amazing. As far as performance, the fury is as stable as 452x so it holds a tune amazingly, and at the shot, it feels much softer. Soft like 8190 type of feel. Shooting Fury for cables and string is like having 452x cables and 8190 string, all with one material. The new BCY X is very similar in that it does both well, but the Fury finishes nicer.


Just took the string off the stretcher after an hour at 350lbs. It's final length will be 99 3/8" and it didn't loose a pound of weight in that hour. I've never gotten that from 452x. I'm impressed.


----------



## automan26

Now I am totally bummed... I have 3 spools of 452X on the way which should arrive tomorrow. :sad:

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Now I am totally bummed... I have 3 spools of 452X on the way which should arrive tomorrow. :sad:
> 
> Automan


Haha me too. Just ordered some electric blue 452x before trying the Fury. I'll still use it since I can't afford to buy all new material but I don't think I'll be making many orders of 452x any more.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I'm excited to try the fury!!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Got my fury today. I'll build a set for my e35!!! I'll let you all know how it goes


----------



## redyak3

Curious about Fury... Finished my first pin shooting string, a lot more tedious than the buss cable. One wayward strand can ruin your day. I "chased" the stripes every 10 twists to keep everything in line. Is that just me or do you guys do that as well? Strand separation prior to tag-end serving is key, never had to do that doing 2 color. Still being stretched, I hope this 3 color "X" is as stable as 452X 2 color. I'll probably stick with BCY for awhile, but there sure are some awesome Fury sets on Arrows and Strings.


----------



## Huntinsker

Another update on the Fury. After dewaxing and burnishing, there was ZERO wax squeeze out while serving. Because there was no wax coming out, my clear serving is clearer than I've ever done. On a side note, I'm really loving my Beiter winder. I can serve double the tension that I could with the BCY serving jig without breaking the Halo. That also attributed to the super clear serving.


----------



## redyak3

double post


----------



## redyak3

Installed the shooting string, ATA is right on. Tie on a DLoop and see how she behaves. Definitely worth the effort, thanks all! sorry 'bout bad pics...


----------



## redyak3

No peep rotation at all. BCY-X is nice stuff, easy to work with, stable, and finishes out pretty good. Better pics...


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Redyak it's looking sweet!!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

Good work red!


----------



## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> Guys I've got my first Fury cable on my jig stretching and I can say that this material is AWESOME! It feels so much better than 452x or 8190 when you're wrapping tag ends. The loops come out nicer and tighter than with either 452x or 8190 and my transitions and back served tag ends have never been smoother or smaller. I'm loving the small diameter fiber. I don't know how to explain this material but it's much smoother than the BCY fibers I've built with. It almost feels like an extruded plastic when it's at tension. It's so smooth and just feels great. If it performs as good as my 452x sets have, I have no doubt that I'll be changing over, for my own stuff at least.


of course its easier to make tag ends with a smaller material....but if you cant make an end loop as tight with any material then its not the material itself but how your wrapping it, material has nothing to do with how "tight" you can wrap a loop..... It feels different cus its a different material....no vectran or anything else, just whatever their using. brownell has always "felt" different, like astro to rino, feels and looks about the same. but "feel" doesnt affect performance, or have any different visual affects when your 5ft away from the string....



chenashot said:


> Welcome to the club my friend! Both Fury and Rhino are outstanding materials. The way they finish is amazing. As far as performance, the fury is as stable as 452x so it holds a tune amazingly, and at the shot, it feels much softer. Soft like 8190 type of feel. Shooting Fury for cables and string is like having 452x cables and 8190 string, all with one material. The new BCY X is very similar in that it does both well, but the Fury finishes nicer.


Gotta give new materials time in the elements to see how they really stand the test of time. time tells all....


----------



## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> Now I am totally bummed... I have 3 spools of 452X on the way which should arrive tomorrow. :sad:
> 
> Automan





Huntinsker said:


> Haha me too. Just ordered some electric blue 452x before trying the Fury. I'll still use it since I can't afford to buy all new material but I don't think I'll be making many orders of 452x any more.


Dont be worried if you have some 452x on order cus its still the #1 material that is made to date....hands down no questions asked about that......


----------



## dwagoner

chenashot said:


> the fury is as stable as 452x so it holds a tune amazingly, and at the shot, it feels much softer. Soft like 8190 type of feel. Shooting Fury for cables and string is like having 452x cables and 8190 string, all with one material. The new BCY X is very similar in that it does both well, but the Fury finishes nicer.


and to add to this, Fury actually has LESS natural elasticity, aka Stretch , to 452x and X, and compared to 8190 their way different.... so i think to say fury has a softer shot is just something you may think , or an opinion. but facts are its not as elastic as 452x or X, almost the same but a tiny bit "stiffer' per say. and 8190 was had the most elasticity of all these mentioned, by quite a bit too.

when Trophy first came out i made a few sets that i felt it was noticeable more quiet than 452x and so did several buddies when they got their bows, why? heck i have no idea since its just got the gore added to it, its wierd what you feel on 100% equal setups regarding strings.


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> of course its easier to make tag ends with a smaller material....but if you cant make an end loop as tight with any material then its not the material itself but how your wrapping it, material has nothing to do with how "tight" you can wrap a loop..... It feels different cus its a different material....no vectran or anything else, just whatever their using. brownell has always "felt" different, like astro to rino, feels and looks about the same. but "feel" doesnt affect performance, or have any different visual affects when your 5ft away from the string....
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta give new materials time in the elements to see how they really stand the test of time. time tells all....





dwagoner said:


> Dont be worried if you have some 452x on order cus its still the #1 material that is made to date....hands down no questions asked about that......





dwagoner said:


> and to add to this, Fury actually has LESS natural elasticity, aka Stretch , to 452x and X, and compared to 8190 their way different.... so i think to say fury has a softer shot is just something you may think , or an opinion. but facts are its not as elastic as 452x or X, almost the same but a tiny bit "stiffer' per say. and 8190 was had the most elasticity of all these mentioned, by quite a bit too.
> 
> when Trophy first came out i made a few sets that i felt it was noticeable more quiet than 452x and so did several buddies when they got their bows, why? heck i have no idea since its just got the gore added to it, its wierd what you feel on 100% equal setups regarding strings.


dwagoner, I wish when you comment in this thread you'd bring something positive and helpful to the conversation. I don't understand why every time you post here it has to be stained with condescension. Automan and I started this thread to be helpful and have fun and you don't add anything helpful or fun to it. I don't know why your panties get so wadded up when you see this thread but just take it easy. I think you have good things to add and are generally knowledgeable but lets try not to put others down with your posts. Everything that can be said in a negative or "looking down your nose" kind of way can be said in a helpful and nicer way if you choose. So far everyone else has chosen the latter. You should join the crowd.


----------



## chenashot

dwagoner said:


> and to add to this, Fury actually has LESS natural elasticity, aka Stretch , to 452x and X, and compared to 8190 their way different.... so i think to say fury has a softer shot is just something you may think , or an opinion. but facts are its not as elastic as 452x or X, almost the same but a tiny bit "stiffer' per say. and 8190 was had the most elasticity of all these mentioned, by quite a bit too.


That statement is my opinion. I never said it was a hard fact. I thought we were allowed to post opinions in an open forum. 

Also, people have made the exact same comments about the new X material. It being as solid as 452x, and feeling softer at the shot. Best of both worlds right, but I don't ever see you commenting on those posts about the new BCY material.

And just so you know, I have not only the Fury and Rhino that I build with, but 452x and X as well. At least I try everything. Do you?


----------



## Huntinsker

Yes our friend dwagoner has got it out for anything Brownell it would seem. For never using it or liking it, they sure seem to know a lot about it. I wonder if they did testing on the Fury, 452x and X materials in order to actually know that "Fury has LESS natural elasticity, aka stretch, to 452x and X", or if they were just spouting off their opinion and not actual facts as is implied. If it is fact and can be found somewhere, I'd like to see the source as it seems like it would be a good read.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Hunt, how many strands did you use on your string n cable with fury??

I'm making one for the e35. I heard 32 strands. Just curious


----------



## chenashot

2X_LUNG said:


> Hunt, how many strands did you use on your string n cable with fury??
> 
> I'm making one for the e35. I heard 32 strands. Just curious


Hey 2X,

I have been building with 32 strand cables, and 28 strand strings with good success.


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Hunt, how many strands did you use on your string n cable with fury??
> 
> I'm making one for the e35. I heard 32 strands. Just curious


Yep. Just like chenashot, I did 28 on the string and 32 on the cables. I'm installing them on my bow today so I'll see how it feels and shoots.


----------



## redyak3

Are you folks using Brownell serving materials, or BCY fibers?... {Hope that's not a dumb question}


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Red, I'm using bcy serving materials on my fury.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

chenashot said:


> Hey 2X,
> 
> I have been building with 32 strand cables, and 28 strand strings with good success.


U using .021 center??


----------



## chenashot

2X_LUNG said:


> U using .021 center??


Yep.


----------



## chenashot

redyak3 said:


> Are you folks using Brownell serving materials, or BCY fibers?... {Hope that's not a dumb question}


I use all Brownell for end and center serve


----------



## 2X_LUNG

You think bcy serving will be ok on fury?


----------



## chenashot

2X_LUNG said:


> You think bcy serving will be ok on fury?


Yep. I have some 62xs that I have used as well.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Perfect. I figured so


----------



## dwagoner

chenashot said:


> And just so you know, I have not only the Fury and Rhino that I build with, but 452x and X as well. At least I try everything. Do you?


theres only 2 people on the earth that know what this means and your not one of em but all i have to say is..... F. T. F. B's .....



Huntinsker said:


> Yes our friend dwagoner has got it out for anything Brownell it would seem. For never using it or liking it, they sure seem to know a lot about it. I wonder if they did testing on the Fury, 452x and X materials in order to actually know that "Fury has LESS natural elasticity, aka stretch, to 452x and X", or if they were just spouting off their opinion and not actual facts as is implied. If it is fact and can be found somewhere, I'd like to see the source as it seems like it would be a good read.


i posted true hard facts, and yes ive had astro, have xs2, rino, and fury.... SO both you dont have a clue what your talking about when you always love to say that i "never use this or that" which is jibberish....

how do i know....???? maybe because ive just built to identical string sets for 2 buddies, exact bow, one with X and one with fury.....ive used them ALL....side by side too....very easy to know what materail does what when you build on identical specs and end up with a result.

I posted it had less stretch as was compared to other materails only, and how that relates to "feel" thats all, its purely an opinion.....

natural elasticity of a material relates alot to how it feels on the bow. and its not always the best, remember UltraCam.... 56% vectran, guaranteed the lowest stretch material to date.....not manufactured anymore.


----------



## dwagoner

2X_LUNG said:


> Red, I'm using bcy serving materials on my fury.


use whatever you like....it doesnt matter....


----------



## dwagoner

2X_LUNG said:


> Hunt, how many strands did you use on your string n cable with fury??
> 
> I'm making one for the e35. I heard 32 strands. Just curious


you need to make sure and try and get cables around the .105 size, then can be tad larger, i measured my stockers and saw up to 108or so, but elite recomends .105 for ends. string is easy to make below that but cables depending on colors can be tough with 32 depending on what serving used. they use halo 014 and you need something stout on E35 cables.....


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> theres only 2 people on the earth that know what this means and your not one of em but all i have to say is..... F. T. F. B's .....
> 
> 
> 
> i posted true hard facts, and yes ive had astro, have xs2, rino, and fury.... SO both you dont have a clue what your talking about when you always love to say that i "never use this or that" which is jibberish....
> 
> how do i know....???? maybe because ive just built to identical string sets for 2 buddies, exact bow, one with X and one with fury.....ive used them ALL....side by side too....very easy to know what materail does what when you build on identical specs and end up with a result.
> 
> I posted it had less stretch as was compared to other materails only, and how that relates to "feel" thats all, its purely an opinion.....
> 
> natural elasticity of a material relates alot to how it feels on the bow. and its not always the best, remember UltraCam.... 56% vectran, guaranteed the lowest stretch material to date.....not manufactured anymore.


Good, I'm glad you build with more than one material. Now as far as knowing that Fury has less elasticity, unless you have some scientific way to prove that it does, it's your opinion. You can say all you want about what you posted but you said, and I quote, *"and to add to this, Fury actually has LESS natural elasticity, aka Stretch , to 452x and X, and compared to 8190 their way different.... so i think to say fury has a softer shot is just something you may think , or an opinion. but facts are its not as elastic as 452x or X, almost the same but a tiny bit "stiffer' per say."* So your calling your "true hard facts", purely opinion now. Either way, we appreciate your posting here just not the attitude that comes with it.


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> you need to make sure and try and get cables around the .105 size, then can be tad larger, i measured my stockers and saw up to 108or so, but elite recomends .105 for ends. string is easy to make below that but cables depending on colors can be tough with 32 depending on what serving used. they use halo 014 and you need something stout on E35 cables.....


This is good advice. I ended up about .109" on my 32 strand cable using .014 Halo. The string was fine using .014 halo and the .021 62xs center serving gave a real nice nock fit.


----------



## Huntinsker

Another Fury update.

My initial findings while building:
1. Way less wax than the 452x or 8190 that I've built with. No wax squeeze out while serving with the Fury after dewaxing and burnishing.

2. I personally saw LESS stretch from the Fury than with either 452x or 8190 while building. I set my posts exactly like I did on my last 3 sets that I've built for this bow and this Fury set is the only one where I came out a hair short. I had to remove two twists from the string and 1 twist from the cable. The only way I can explain it is that the fury is more stable under tension than 452x or 8190. 

3. Getting my bow back to the exact cam starting position and DL that I had before the switch was a breeze. I added back 1 twist to the buss cable and the string was perfect. 8 shots to make sure the drop away timing was still perfect and I installed the peep. The peep never moved after that. Another 10 shots and I tied it in for good. 

4. There was no appreciable speed gain or loss from the Fury string and cable over my 8190 string and 452x cable. I averaged 296fps with the 8190/452x combo and averaged 297fps with the Fury set. Again this was with the DW and DL dead nuts to what it was before the change.

5. My opinion on how it feels on the shot. I do not think the Fury is as soft feeling as the 8190 strings I've made but I do think it is a little less hard feeling than 452x strings for this bow. It feels nice and strong on the shot and shoots well but it's not as soft as 8190. There was no noticeable difference in the sound of the bow. It wasn't quieter or louder from what I could tell. 

All in all, I like the material a lot. It's cleaner and easier to build with IMO and it shoots well. The small strand diameter lends itself to nice tag end loops and a very round bundle for the string. I'm sure BCY X has much the same characteristics because of its small diameter but if you've been on the fence with Fury, give it a try. I think you'll like it.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Huntinsker said:


> This is good advice. I ended up about .109" on my 32 strand cable using .014 Halo. The string was fine using .014 halo and the .021 62xs center serving gave a real nice nock fit.


Did you do 28 for string then, hunt?


----------



## Huntinsker

So I had a PM about the bearing that I put on my jig asking what bearing I used and where I put it on the jig. I thought I'd post a pic in case anyone else was wondering the same things.
The bearing I used is this from McMaster Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#5909k32/=r6d6fb You need the cage assembly and 2 washers to fit that you can find at the link that says "Related Product".

I put the bearing and washers between the steel bar and the 5/8" washer that was already on the jig.








This takes the full load of the jig while under tension and reduces the friction and binding while twisting and getting up to tension. It makes the jig run really smoothly without needing a lot of lubricant on the threads.


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Did you do 28 for string then, hunt?


Yep 28 on the string turned out real nice.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Run 28 strands on the string and 30 on the cables.... seems just about perfect!



2X_LUNG said:


> Hunt, how many strands did you use on your string n cable with fury??
> 
> I'm making one for the e35. I heard 32 strands. Just curious


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thanks!


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## Huntinsker

Hogwire Strings said:


> Run 28 strands on the string and 30 on the cables.... seems just about perfect!


Yeah if I were to do it again, I'd do exactly that. 28 on the string and 30 on the cable.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

30 or 32 on the cables is fine, the Fury is crazy strong material for its size


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> So I had a PM about the bearing that I put on my jig asking what bearing I used and where I put it on the jig. I thought I'd post a pic in case anyone else was wondering the same things.
> The bearing I used is this from McMaster Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#5909k32/=r6d6fb You need the cage assembly and 2 washers to fit that you can find at the link that says "Related Product".
> 
> I put the bearing and washers between the steel bar and the 5/8" washer that was already on the jig.
> View attachment 1912427
> 
> 
> This takes the full load of the jig while under tension and reduces the friction and binding while twisting and getting up to tension. It makes the jig run really smoothly without needing a lot of lubricant on the threads.


Good info on the Fury updates, liking the X a lot. I got the goodies from McMaster Carr yesterday and installed the bearing, runs noticeably smoother, and the 5" wheel is a definite speed demon!


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## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> Good, I'm glad you build with more than one material. Now as far as knowing that Fury has less elasticity, unless you have some scientific way to prove that it does, it's your opinion. You can say all you want about what you posted but you said, and I quote, *"and to add to this, Fury actually has LESS natural elasticity, aka Stretch , to 452x and X, and compared to 8190 their way different.... so i think to say fury has a softer shot is just something you may think , or an opinion. but facts are its not as elastic as 452x or X, almost the same but a tiny bit "stiffer' per say."* So your calling your "true hard facts", purely opinion now. Either way, we appreciate your posting here just not the attitude that comes with it.


you didnt read very thoroughly...i build with fury right beside X 2 identical set, binary so 4 equal cables, so that means i layed up 4 identical cables on a jig that never moved, added the same amount of twist and stretched to exact same tension. after relaxing their is a difference in the 2 materials. you can tell by how finished length comes out what material does what, what you had to do to each to get finished length. Plus you can measure movement from tension to tension amounts, AKA 50lb all the way up to over 300ld and measure the stretch a material has. i always play with material to see what it does in increments.

its not an opinion, its true measurements on a jig.... aka facts


----------



## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> Another Fury update.
> 
> My initial findings while building:
> 1. Way less wax than the 452x or 8190 that I've built with. No wax squeeze out while serving with the Fury after dewaxing and burnishing.
> 
> 2. I personally saw LESS stretch from the Fury than with either 452x or 8190 while building. I set my posts exactly like I did on my last 3 sets that I've built for this bow and this Fury set is the only one where I came out a hair short. I had to remove two twists from the string and 1 twist from the cable. The only way I can explain it is that the fury is more stable under tension than 452x or 8190.
> .


youve obviously never got low wax from bcy???? they do make it..... and i tried to order LW with fury and it wasnt, it was average. 

And i told you fury has just a tad less stretch....but stability does not relate to how much stretch a material has....8190 has some crazy stretch when compared to others, and its a stable material......


----------



## dwagoner

Hogwire Strings said:


> 30 or 32 on the cables is fine, the Fury is crazy strong material for its size


and obviously colors play a part in finished diameter, along with twist rate obviously too.... as most know not all colors will make same finished size......


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## JUSS HUNT

great post , THANKS


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## automan26

I have been searching the web for Fury and can only find it in 1/4# spools. Can it be purchased in the 1/8# size?

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I have been searching the web for Fury and can only find it in 1/4# spools. Can it be purchased in the 1/8# size?
> 
> Automan


I'm not sure on that but you should shoot Ray Knight a PM. He sells it.


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## Huntinsker

Hello everyone. I ran across a cool website that allows you to preview different color combinations on your strings and it includes a pinstripe option. It's a member on here who sells Proline strings on his website. Anyway here's the link. http://haymondarchery.com/#custombowstrings


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## JJSREEZEN

Nice!!! Thanks Huntinsker!!!


----------



## GrayTech

Any idea how many strands of 452x for a 70# single cam compound, redhead kronik, using standard goldtip nocks. And what serving materials recommended? I previously only worked with dacron b50 material for my old 70# PSE, and on my wifes 40# dual cam clearwater. My kronik needs a nee string soon.


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## Huntinsker

GrayTech said:


> Any idea how many strands of 452x for a 70# single cam compound, redhead kronik, using standard goldtip nocks. And what serving materials recommended? I previously only worked with dacron b50 material for my old 70# PSE, and on my wifes 40# dual cam clearwater. My kronik needs a nee string soon.


I made a string for my buddies Kronik using 22 strands of 452x and .014 halo for end serving. .021 62xs center serving fit his gold tip nocks really well on that string too. I did 24 on the cables also with .014 halo serving. Turned out really nice and he loves it.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Huntinsker said:


> I made a string for my buddies Kronik using 22 strands of 452x and .014 halo for end serving. .021 62xs center serving fit his gold tip nocks really well on that string too. I did 24 on the cables also with .014 halo serving. Turned out really nice and he loves it.


Sounds like the perfect combo! I'd do same!


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## GrayTech

Thanks Huntinsker & 2x_lung. I'll start with that and see how it goes. As an after thought, any specific pointers when working with 452x as opposed to dacron? The process should be pretty much the same but there are always a few tricks! I'll stay with a single color for now so no intricate separation necessary. 
By the way, I have been experimenting with braided spectra/dyneema fishing line in various diameters for serving, it's easy to work with, does not separate and it holds up really well. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, and its dirt cheap compared to commercial serving materials.


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## Huntinsker

Building with Dacron would give much more stretch than 452x. You may have to adjust your formula. I've thought about using braided fishing line and I think it'd be a good idea. Like you said it's basically the same stuff but much cheaper.


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## 2X_LUNG

I'd still lay your string and cables out like you're doing 2 colors. Makes it easier when you have 2 separate bundles and then twist. So for a 24 strand cable, lay 12 down and the second 12 over that! Just my opinion


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## buddy13

O K built a string for my creed tuned bow with it shoots nice but every ten shots or so the loop goes sideways peep does also shoot again peep goes to perfect alinement then i shoot for a while it stays straight comes back straight .Any body got any idea what went wrong with this string.The thing that driving me crazy is it comes back straight every time even when it goes a little sideways was thinking of redoing the center serving.I havent got the peep where i want it yet needs to go a little higher but wanted to shoot it for a while before i go though all that....Anyone oh to clarify the peep always comes back to perfect alinement regardless of where it starts out when i nock an arrow


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## Huntinsker

No idea on that one. If it's turning but not every shot and not in a consistent pattern, I've got nothing. I would shoot it for a while and see what happens. How many shots were on it when you noticed this happening?


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## buddy13

I shot it 50 times then it started the thing is the peep comes back perfect every time regardless of where it starts just took it off the bow left bow in press.Re did center serving for some reason I might have served it to tight there brought it up to 300 for a few minutes going to let it rest all night i might have not let it rest long enough.I could make another string but this has got me wondering.Oh and mathews strings are a little longer than manufacture says they are at 100.This is my findings there was a big argument on another thread with a pro string maker and he is absolutly right if i took 3 strings off friends bows FACTORY They are an 1/8 bigger at 100 lbs these are bows that i checked tuning before i took them off.And the string where fine but they wanted my colored ones....JUST TO MKE THIS A LITTLE HARDER!


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## Huntinsker

Yeah the advertised specs for Mathews strings aren't very accurate if at all. If you build to those lengths, you'll very likely come up short on poundage and the specs will be off.


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## buddy13

Do you know the real specs for the creed


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## Huntinsker

I haven't built for the Creed yet. The best thing to do anytime you build for a new Mathews is to get it to spec before building and then measure the string and cable on your own. So twist the cable and string as many times as it takes to get the draw weight correct and the DL to a more realistic length (Mathews isn't know for being very accurate with their lengths). Then use those lengths to build to.


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## Hogwire Strings

Ive found the best combo for Mathews is 1/8" long on the string and 1/8" short on the buss. This ends up getting you exactly where you need to be!



Huntinsker said:


> I haven't built for the Creed yet. The best thing to do anytime you build for a new Mathews is to get it to spec before building and then measure the string and cable on your own. So twist the cable and string as many times as it takes to get the draw weight correct and the DL to a more realistic length (Mathews isn't know for being very accurate with their lengths). Then use those lengths to build to.


----------



## Huntinsker

Hogwire Strings said:


> Ive found the best combo for Mathews is 1/8" long on the string and 1/8" short on the buss. This ends up getting you exactly where you need to be!


That's what I've found on the one's I've built for too. I can't speak for them all but it seems to be a pretty sound rule of thumb so far.


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## buddy13

That sounds right thanks


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## buddy13

Why does mathews do that ?string sizes I mean, if I put put on what they say you cant get axel to axel or tuning to line up I have figured it out.1/8 short 1/8 longer.But what a unessary problem.Sorry to get off topic I like there bows but they are difficult to figure.I suppose its product protection or maybe they measure strings at no preasure?


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## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> Why does mathews do that ?string sizes I mean, if I put put on what they say you cant get axel to axel or tuning to line up I have figured it out.1/8 short 1/8 longer.But what a unessary problem.Sorry to get off topic I like there bows but they are difficult to figure.I suppose its product protection or maybe they measure strings at no preasure?


A few years ago, there was a story that some were relaying saying that only Mathews strings work on Mathews bows. Now that wasn't true but many people that got aftermarket strings found that they didn't seem to fit as well so for some that was "proof". These people kept spreading their experience so the story spread. These people bought Mathews Zebra strings and viola, bow in tune. I figure Mathews puts out specs that are inaccurate so that people purchase their strings instead of the competition. Just a little way to line their pockets with a little more of their customer's money.


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## straddleridge

I have a Mathews bow and have made quite a few strings for it. I make my strings to Mathews' published specifications and my strings are dead on. Normally I dont make more than about 3 total twists in anything. I am not a fanboy.


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## buddy13

straddleridge said:


> I have a Mathews bow and have made quite a few strings for it. I make my strings to Mathews' published specifications and my strings are dead on. Normally I dont make more than about 3 total twists in anything. I am not a fanboy.


Wow your lucky cause I spent 3 hours today made a test string got axle to axle at 30 and the timing hole perfect I havnt measured it or the cable yet but the string is at least an 1/8 over spec if not 3/16.Its on the bow now.I will press it tomorrow take it off and measure it and the cable for future refrence.I put 100 lbs on the factory string that was perfect and it was 92 1/2 [calling for 92 1/4 spec] may be a little shy but I didnt beleave it thought i was carless and let twists out.I am a fan boy I love my mathews bows just wish they did'nt make things difficult.I made strings for my dren and ended up making them 3/16ths longer to get everything to spec.I may ask my local dealer to save the old mathews strings that are still in tune for reference.It will save me a lot of wasted material.


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## buddy13

Huntinsker said:


> A few years ago, there was a story that some were relaying saying that only Mathews strings work on Mathews bows. Now that wasn't true but many people that got aftermarket strings found that they didn't seem to fit as well so for some that was "proof". These people kept spreading their experience so the story spread. These people bought Mathews Zebra strings and viola, bow in tune. I figure Mathews puts out specs that are inaccurate so that people purchase their strings instead of the competition. Just a little way to line their pockets with a little more of their customer's money.


Ya I think you are correct but I dont quit easy built a string long not fancy and just twisted it till it was right same with the cable got it perfect. Now just carefully take it off 100 lbs measure right it down good to go in the future.I got a big mathews dealer near me like to have him save me all the old cables but they are busy and if they throw them a side and they un twist back to square one.Maybe if I bring him up a bag of scallops he will let me bring new ones home measure them put back in pkg that would be ideal.Un fortunitly I can't own there intire line of bows to get string specs.My problem is if they say its 92 1/4 my mind wont except that its anything different but I beleve ppl i buy a good product from I guess I don t understand the marketing world


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## automan26

I came home today and discovered that my free sample of Fury had arrived. At 30 strands, how long of a string should I be able to build using just what I was sent in the two colors of sample material?

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I came home today and discovered that my free sample of Fury had arrived. At 30 strands, how long of a string should I be able to build using just what I was sent in the two colors of sample material?
> 
> Automan


I did 28 strands on a 99 3/8" string and 32 strands on a 36 15/16" buss cable. I still have enough to probably make another set for that bow. But if I were to build it again, I'd go 28 string and 30 on the cable.


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## automan26

Does it twist up like 452x? I have heard that it finishes out a tad short.

Automan


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## 2X_LUNG

I built mine with 28 string and 30 cable. Was perfect


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## 2X_LUNG

automan26 said:


> Does it twist up like 452x? I have heard that it finishes out a tad short.
> 
> Automan


It twists up great. Looks better. I'd say it ends up just a tad short because it's so stable. Minimal stretching even after 4 hours


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## buddy13

My findings specs mathews creed ...92 1/4 ...32 3/4 timed perfect 92 3/8 .....32 9/16 at 100 lbs


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## automan26

I can't wait to try it. My 82nd Airborne has brand new threads, but just as soon as I get my Sentinel strung up tomorrow, I am going to build my 82nd a new set of Furys.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Does it twist up like 452x? I have heard that it finishes out a tad short.
> 
> Automan


Yep like 2x said, it's a little more stable so you can count on just a little less stretch.


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## CHobbs

2X_LUNG said:


> It twists up great. Looks better. I'd say it ends up just a tad short because it's so stable. Minimal stretching even after 4 hours


Yep. I have built 4 sets with it now. It builds rock solid and lays together incredibly. Looks and feel are both excellent IMO.


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## redyak3

All one has to do is call Brownell's for the free Fury sample?
I received a string materials list from Ray Knight, a little pricier than BCY. Do you folks think overall that it's superior than the BCY products?


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> All one has to do is call Brownell's for the free Fury sample?
> I received a string materials list from Ray Knight, a little pricier than BCY. Do you folks think overall that it's superior than the BCY products?


Yep, they're happy to send a sample. I think that I'm willing to pay a little more to get the benefits I've seen so far. I'm not going to stop using BCY stuff all together but I like how the Fury set turned out. The way it finished and how stable it is, is worth a few dollars to me.


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## redyak3

^^^
Thanks Hunt!!!
ETA:
Names on the list for the sample :BrownBear::BrownBear:


----------



## redyak3

Rainy day practice, a string set for the Drenny. The end loops getting closer. Four tag end loops are bulkier to serve over neatly for sure. I'm liking the stripes, need more colors .


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## dwagoner

2X_LUNG said:


> I'd say it ends up just a tad short because it's so stable. Minimal stretching even after 4 hours





Huntinsker said:


> Yep like 2x said, it's a little more stable so you can count on just a little less stretch.


Man you guys really need to get your facts straight......mis information like this is not needed....there is NO direct relationship to STRETCH (what you two are talking about) and STABILITY of a bowstring.....Stability refers to how the material holds up, ie no creep or movement over time on the bow.....

Every bowstring material has stretch, "recoverable elongation, or natural elasticity" and its by no means makes a material more stable......Take the material with prolly the least
stretch....UltraCam, think it was 56% vectran, you think thats more "stable" just because it has less stretch???? if it was more "stable" it would still be in production prolly.

the difference in fury and 452x and X is tiny....like 1-2 twist difference when built exactly the same on average size stirng off dual cam bow, like the 55" range. so if you have a setup that works with 452x or X then just add like 1/16" to keep exact same twist ratio, but that all depends how tight you twist. 1.5 ratio wont move as mush as a 1.33 ratio when finished.


----------



## dwagoner

redyak3 said:


> Rainy day practice, a string set for the Drenny. The end loops getting closer. Four tag end loops are bulkier to serve over neatly for sure. I'm liking the stripes, need more colors .


WHy not use 2 tags on each end instead of 4 on one??? way easier to deal with.... and thats whats nice about buss cables, you have 3 loops to divide tags if you choose to do that way


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## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Rainy day practice, a string set for the Drenny. The end loops getting closer. Four tag end loops are bulkier to serve over neatly for sure. I'm liking the stripes, need more colors .


The 4 tag ends loops are harder to serve over. I've found that you can still get it to lay down nicely but you have to finish the back served tag end really tight to flatten it down as much as possible. I make sure to wrap the first side as tight as possible and then when I finish the loop with the second side and wrap over the first back served tag end, I pull hard over the back served portion. You can actually watch as it gets flattened out. Then make sure you back serve to finish as tight as possible. Also, the less you wrap, the less you have to serve over so I usually cut down the number of wraps accordingly.

If you were to do that same string color combo with Fury, it'd be much easier to serve over because of the smaller strand diameter.


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> Man you guys really need to get your facts straight......mis information like this is not needed....there is NO direct relationship to STRETCH (what you two are talking about) and STABILITY of a bowstring.....Stability refers to how the material holds up, ie no creep or movement over time on the bow.....
> 
> Every bowstring material has stretch, "recoverable elongation, or natural elasticity" and its by no means makes a material more stable......Take the material with prolly the least
> stretch....UltraCam, think it was 56% vectran, you think thats more "stable" just because it has less stretch???? if it was more "stable" it would still be in production prolly.
> 
> the difference in fury and 452x and X is tiny....like 1-2 twist difference when built exactly the same on average size stirng off dual cam bow, like the 55" range. so if you have a setup that works with 452x or X then just add like 1/16" to keep exact same twist ratio, but that all depends how tight you twist. 1.5 ratio wont move as mush as a 1.33 ratio when finished.


I'm referring to stability in the sense that it may creep less over time on the bow like you're saying. That's based on the smaller amount that it "stretched" while on the stretcher and how it came out shorter after the recover period. From that information, one can assume that while on a bow and over a period of time, it will have less of a tendency to creep. I don't know why but you're arguing this when we're saying the same thing. 

Here's a quote from Ray Knight on 2X's "E35 Threads I built!" thread. 
"I use the same formula for Fury but it *stretches a lot slower than other materials*. Strings come out a little short but are just right after a few hours stretch time. The stuff is incredible. I had a 60" fury string and 60" X string on the stretcher overnight. I needed to add two twists to the Fury and 6 to the X string to adjust to length. Pretty impressive! No vectran required with this stuff. Even heat won't stretch it." 

So in Chris's findings, he found that Fury crept less over a specific time than the "X" which is why it came out shorter and required fewer twists. That bold part is talking about creep or "non-recoverable stretch". You also said you found the same thing and I happened to find the same thing also. So again, not sure why you need to argue the same thing except maybe it's because of your crappy attitude toward this thread. 

Now you can play the semantics game all you want but on this thread, we know what someone means when they say the string "stretched". We also know what elasticity and creep means but we're not so stuck up to not let it slide if someone says "stretch" when "creep" would technically be appropriate.


----------



## redyak3

dwagoner said:


> WHy not use 2 tags on each end instead of 4 on one??? way easier to deal with.... and thats whats nice about buss cables, you have 3 loops to divide tags if you choose to do that way


 This is an end loop for a shooting string, don't know how I could divide any other way (still learning). Sprung end post has the blk & red tags. Unsprung has the red/flo yel on one side and blk/ flo yel. 22 strand string, 5-1/2--1--4-1/2.


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> This is an end loop for a shooting string, don't know how I could divide any other way (still learning). Sprung end post has the blk & red tags. Unsprung has the red/flo yel on one side and blk/ flo yel. 22 strand string, 5-1/2--1--4-1/2.


You can't but we'll let dwags off the hook for that one. I think they thought you were doing a buss cable. You can either have 4 tag ends at one end or 4 tag ends at both ends (if you want 4 strands of the pin color you could do 2 strands toward each end but that'd be silly).


----------



## redyak3

^^^
Thanks!!! Good to know that I'm on the right track.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

What do u guys think of this combo. Was playing around last night. It's the new electric blue and silver with a flor yellow pin. Not too bad. It just doesn't "pop" enough for me. Lol


----------



## Huntinsker

I think that combo looks good but you're right, it doesn't pop. I bet flo green would pop a little more for the pinstripe. To me to get a good pinstripe to pop, you need opposite ends of the "Brightness" spectrum. If you have a bright pinstripe, you need darker primary colors. If you have brighter primary colors, a darker pinstripe will stand out more. Silver is probably on the bright end and so is the electric blue. A black pinstripe would really pop for you.


----------



## sagecreek

Cool thread.


----------



## Huntinsker

sagecreek said:


> Cool thread.


Thanks. We have a great group of people contributing that has made it what it is.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

How's this huntinsker?


----------



## Huntinsker

I love that combo. You can put almost any color with silver and a black pinstripe and it looks great every time. You laid that one out beautifully. Looks great. :thumbs_up


----------



## 2X_LUNG

You're right! Those colors are great. They are going to my buddy twyatt on here. He's gonna try em out!


----------



## frog gigger

Can someone give me some info on redyac3's sleeve design? I've had the same diy jig for 18 years, which has done well. Seeing all these different ideas has me taking some from each design to build another.

And, how much clearance is needed for the spinner?
Thanks.


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> I love that combo. You can put almost any color with silver and a black pinstripe and it looks great every time. You laid that one out beautifully. Looks great. :thumbs_up


Yup, I like that as well!!! I'm thinking of a Royal Blue/Flo Yellow/Red pin or Flo Orange/Dark Brown/White pin for a Reezen 6.5 that I just got in.


----------



## redyak3

frog gigger said:


> Can someone give me some info on redyac3's sleeve design? I've had the same diy jig for 18 years, which has done well. Seeing all these different ideas has me taking some from each design to build another.
> 
> And, how much clearance is needed for the spinner?
> Thanks.


Hi, I modified Rudyonthefly's string jig a little to suit my needs. Stands are 1-1/2"x1/8" tubing. The bases are 1-1/2x1/4x7" flat stock doubled up. 3/4"x3-1/2" black pipe sleeve sits on a 1-1/2x1/4x3-1/2" shelf. 12" piece of 3/4 all-thread. Some 3/4"ID flange bronze bushings modified to press fit in the black pipe to take up the slop. Thrust bearings from McMaster-Carr makes things work a lot smoother. I gave myself 7-3/4" clearance from top of unistrut to bottom of black pipe for a spinner. I hope this helps...:teeth:


----------



## 2X_LUNG

redyak3 said:


> Yup, I like that as well!!! I'm thinking of a Royal Blue/Flo Yellow/Red pin or Flo Orange/Dark Brown/White pin for a Reezen 6.5 that I just got in.


Try a flor orange/tan with a black pin. That'd be neat too!


----------



## redyak3

Yup sounds good... maybe in Fury


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Yes!! U find any 1/8 spools yet?


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Yes!! U find any 1/8 spools yet?


Ray Knight can get you 1/8 spools. Shoot him a PM.


----------



## frog gigger

redyak3 said:


> Hi, I modified Rudyonthefly's string jig a little to suit my needs. Stands are 1-1/2"x1/8" tubing. The bases are 1-1/2x1/4x7" flat stock doubled up. 3/4"x3-1/2" black pipe sleeve sits on a 1-1/2x1/4x3-1/2" shelf. 12" piece of 3/4 all-thread. Some 3/4"ID flange bronze bushings modified to press fit in the black pipe to take up the slop. Thrust bearings from McMaster-Carr makes things work a lot smoother. I gave myself 7-3/4" clearance from top of unistrut to bottom of black pipe for a spinner. I hope this helps...:teeth:


Does the tubing eliminate the pull down affect on the all thread? Seems the longer it is, less dip, other than the slop within the tube.


----------



## Rudyonthefly

Yes, it eliminates most of it.

If one were to cut the all-thread in half where your string post enters, there would virtually be zero pull down effect. (Look at a " LittleJon" jig and you can clearly see how the thickness of the round tube is reduced at the post). I believe someone in this thread has actually done this - I seem to recall them posting a picture of theirs. I have not yet as I'm not sure how strong it would be if I cut half of my 3/4" grade 8 all-thread off as I like to stretch up to 450 lbs. I guess I could always try and see what happens....


----------



## redyak3

frog gigger said:


> Does the tubing eliminate the pull down affect on the all thread? Seems the longer it is, less dip, other than the slop within the tube.





Rudyonthefly said:


> Yes, it eliminates most of it.
> 
> If one were to cut the all-thread in half where your string post enters, there would virtually be zero pull down effect. (Look at a " LittleJon" jig and you can clearly see how the thickness of the round tube is reduced at the post). I believe someone in this thread has actually done this - I seem to recall them posting a picture of theirs. I have not yet as I'm not sure how strong it would be if I cut half of my 3/4" grade 8 all-thread off as I like to stretch up to 450 lbs. I guess I could always try and see what happens....


Yup, and the flange bushings takes out the slop between the rod and the pipe. I've seen where people have cut/milled out where the post sits and am a little leery to do it myself...


----------



## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Ray Knight can get you 1/8 spools. Shoot him a PM.


Ditto... he emailed me a price list. Finally talked to Brownell's and got on their sample list as they just ran out. Hope to get it soon to try out.


----------



## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> I'm referring to stability in the sense that it may creep less over time on the bow like you're saying. That's based on the smaller amount that it "stretched" while on the stretcher and how it came out shorter after the recover period. From that information, one can assume that while on a bow and over a period of time, it will have less of a tendency to creep. I don't know why but you're arguing this when we're saying the same thing.
> 
> Here's a quote from Ray Knight on 2X's "E35 Threads I built!" thread.
> "I use the same formula for Fury but it *stretches a lot slower than other materials*. Strings come out a little short but are just right after a few hours stretch time. The stuff is incredible. I had a 60" fury string and 60" X string on the stretcher overnight. I needed to add two twists to the Fury and 6 to the X string to adjust to length. Pretty impressive! No vectran required with this stuff. Even heat won't stretch it."
> 
> So in Chris's findings, he found that Fury crept less over a specific time than the "X" which is why it came out shorter and required fewer twists. That bold part is talking about creep or "non-recoverable stretch". You also said you found the same thing and I happened to find the same thing also. So again, not sure why you need to argue the same thing except maybe it's because of your crappy attitude toward this thread.
> 
> Now you can play the semantics game all you want but on this thread, we know what someone means when they say the string "stretched". We also know what elasticity and creep means but we're not so stuck up to not let it slide if someone says "stretch" when "creep" would technically be appropriate.


i never said anything about what Chris said, and i dont care how anyone else builds strings, i guarantee there are many opinions and process' in how people make their own strings, that has nothing to do with anything i posted....

i corrected the people that are using incorrect terminology so they learn properly, to keep facts facts and let people take their own opinions on materails and process' . To use words like STABLE, STRETCH, CREEP and think they mean the same thing is not true....they are all in fact different words that describe a different trait. BUT i guess since YOU started this thread you want to be the gate keeper to all posts....and use improper words and such thats fine for YOU..... but im sure people learning do want to learn some things correctly from the start so they know what their talking about also....

like the saying goes....."if your gonna do something do it right the first time" that goes for learing about the materials also, not just how to build strings. theirs alot more than just wrapping strands and serving to be learned to become a skilled string maker....


----------



## dwagoner

redyak3 said:


> This is an end loop for a shooting string, don't know how I could divide any other way (still learning). Sprung end post has the blk & red tags. Unsprung has the red/flo yel on one side and blk/ flo yel. 22 strand string, 5-1/2--1--4-1/2.


i saw red, yellow and black on that end loop pic, what colors and materials is it then???? how many colors and what strand counts? from your description your saying 4 colors on that end????


----------



## Hogwire Strings

I love that combo too 2x!!


----------



## redyak3

Sorry for the confusion. Strand count in the post you quoted. BCY-X material, I meant 4 tag ends on one side not 4 colors.


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> i never said anything about what Chris said, and i dont care how anyone else builds strings, i guarantee there are many opinions and process' in how people make their own strings, that has nothing to do with anything i posted....
> 
> i corrected the people that are using incorrect terminology so they learn properly, to keep facts facts and let people take their own opinions on materails and process' . To use words like STABLE, STRETCH, CREEP and think they mean the same thing is not true....they are all in fact different words that describe a different trait. BUT i guess since YOU started this thread you want to be the gate keeper to all posts....and use improper words and such thats fine for YOU..... but im sure people learning do want to learn some things correctly from the start so they know what their talking about also....
> 
> like the saying goes....."if your gonna do something do it right the first time" that goes for learing about the materials also, not just how to build strings. theirs alot more than just wrapping strands and serving to be learned to become a skilled string maker....


Dwagoner, I appreciate your passion. I used Chris's quote to illustrate what I was saying. I used "more stable" to suggest that it doesn't seem to creep as much over time as indicated by what I saw under tension on my jig. Now since the definition for stable is "in a good state or condition that is not easily changed or likely to change", I think I used it correctly but your right, I should have said creep instead of stretch. 

I don't need to be the gate keeper to anything but I also don't care for people being rude on such a nice thread we have going. I appreciate your posting here because I think you're a valued member of AT and I'd like to see as many people here as we can get but I think your lack of tact when it comes to this thread is kind of uncalled for. You don't seem to post that way on other threads so I'm not sure why this thread turns you into Dale B1. You have a lot of knowledge and I'm glad you're willing to share but it'd be great if you could be a little nicer about it.


----------



## buddy13

dwagoner said:


> i never said anything about what Chris said, and i dont care how anyone else builds strings, i guarantee there are many opinions and process' in how people make their own strings, that has nothing to do with anything i posted....
> 
> i corrected the people that are using incorrect terminology so they learn properly, to keep facts facts and let people take their own opinions on materails and process' . To use words like STABLE, STRETCH, CREEP and think they mean the same thing is not true....they are all in fact different words that describe a different trait. BUT i guess since YOU started this thread you want to be the gate keeper to all posts....and use improper words and such thats fine for YOU..... but im sure people learning do want to learn some things correctly from the start so they know what their talking about also....
> 
> like the saying goes....."if your gonna do something do it right the first time" that goes for learing about the materials also, not just how to build strings. theirs alot more than just wrapping strands and serving to be learned to become a skilled string maker....


I have learned a lot on this thread and it seems to be a happy place and I enjoy it very much dont really know creep stretch or but hole but been shooting since I was 12 making string since boy scouts.Thrown a lot away had a lot of problem everyone here has helped me with pleasure.Now I could send one of my strings to a pro builder and I am sure he would say ..Nice string!If you want to argue go to like one of those my bow is better than yours thread.Just a sugestion


----------



## automan26

This has been a great thread for all who have participated. Even though I have been building good strings for 20 years, as a result of this thread I am building better strings than ever before. I have truely learned a lot here. If want to help a friend to start building his own threads, all I have to do is point him here and he is on his way.

Automan


----------



## bigbuckisamust

what type of string material are you using?


----------



## automan26

Tomorrow I hope to build a set of Fury threads. I still have a lot of 452x to use up, but I am hpoing to like Fury well enough to make a switch. 

Automan


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I'm going to fury. It's awesome stuff! I love building with it


----------



## Huntinsker

I still have a lot of 452x to build with and a little 8190. I do like the Fury a lot but until I get my stock of 452x down some, I probably won't have much more fury than what I need for my own stuff. My buddies will get 452x sets for a while haha.


----------



## Backstop

I've been enjoying the thread.. thinking about making a set of strings for my Carbon Spyder Turbo..any suggestions on some good string material and serving material ?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Backstop said:


> I've been enjoying the thread.. thinking about making a set of strings for my Carbon Spyder Turbo..any suggestions on some good string material and serving material ?



I've been using bcy x and really like it. Fury is great too. I've had great luck with just bcy 3d serving. Holding up great! Let us know how it goes. And post pics!!


----------



## Backstop

I have some 8190 and some 452x I bought a while back.. I havent made a set of strings yet.. so this will be my first go at it...I might just try to make a set to see how it goes first.. before moving on to another string material... thanks to all u guys have posted.. I might give it a go.


----------



## redyak3

Backstop said:


> I have some 8190 and some 452x I bought a while back.. I havent made a set of strings yet.. so this will be my first go at it...I might just try to make a set to see how it goes first.. before moving on to another string material... thanks to all u guys have posted.. I might give it a go.


Give it a go! I like 452X, been using BCY-X lately and like it. On the mailing list for a Fury sample can't wait to try some out. For serving Halo, seemed to me a little more durable than 3d. Good luck and have fun.


----------



## Backstop

Looks like I am gunna have to call Hoyt for the string specs.. they dont have them posted on their websight.


----------



## redyak3

Backstop said:


> Looks like I am gunna have to call Hoyt for the string specs.. they dont have them posted on their websight.


Have you looked on the Arrows and Strings forum? Stringmakers thread just might have what you're looking for.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247


----------



## Backstop

redyak3 said:


> Have you looked on the Arrows and Strings forum? Stringmakers thread just might have what you're looking for.
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247


No.. I havent.. thanks for the link.. I will check it out.


----------



## Backstop

If I use 452x.... how many strands do u think I should use... 22 or 24 ? And what size serving for a proper nock fit ? Thanks


----------



## redyak3

I followed Huntinsker's advice and do 22 strand string and 24 strand buss. .21 Angel Majesty works for my center serving and cam serving on the buss as my solo cams tend to wear that area out quick.


----------



## Backstop

Ok.. thanks.. I try that out.. I have to make the string with 22 strands... a control cable and a buss cable with 24 strands.. got it.


----------



## automan26

First off, thanks to the folks at Brownell for sending me samples of Fury. I built a string for my 82nd Airborne using flo orange and black Fury and the results are fantastic. First, Fury is a dream to work with. It definitely has a different feel than 452X, but you would have to handle it to see what I mean. The strands feel almost like smooth plastic. My end loops laid wrapped nicely and after I had everything twisted up the strands laid down and the string almost looked solid. It does twist up short however, but it's really no problem. My 57 1/4" string ended up at 57" even, but I was more than OK with taking out 8 or 9 twists to get it spot-on. Under tension stretch was minimal and recovery time was short.

The Fury flo orange really pops against the black--more than flo orange and black 452X. I was very impressed when I burnished the string. When burnishing anything made from 452X that has black strands, the black likes to bleed across the other colors, making them appear a bit duller. After burnishing the Fury, the orange still popped like a neon sign. I have nothing negative at all to report about Fury except that I have a ton of 452X to get through before I can switch entirely to Fury, which is exactly what I am planning.

Stand down 452X, there's a new kid on be block and he's coming to take over and kick some BCY butt..

Automan


----------



## 2X_LUNG

automan26 said:


> First off, thanks to the folks at Brownell for sending me samples of Fury. I built a string for my 82nd Airborne using flo orange and black Fury and the results are fantastic. First, Fury is a dream to work with. It definitely has a different feel than 452X, but you would have to handle it to see what I mean. The strands feel almost like smooth plastic. My end loops laid wrapped nicely and after I had everything twisted up the strands laid down and the string almost looked solid. It does twist up short however, but it's really no problem. My 57 1/4" string ended up at 57" even, but I was more than OK with taking out 8 or 9 twists to get it spot-on. Under tension stretch was minimal and recovery time was short.
> 
> The Fury flo orange really pops against the black--more than flo orange and black 452X. I was very impressed when I burnished the string. When burnishing anything made from 452X that has black strands, the black likes to bleed across the other colors, making them appear a bit duller. After burnishing the Fury, the orange still popped like a neon sign. I have nothing negative at all to report about Fury except that I have a ton of 452X to get through before I can switch entirely to Fury, which is exactly what I am planning.
> 
> Stand down 452X, there's a new kid on be block and he's coming to take over and kick some BCY butt..
> 
> Automan


You couldn't have said it any better. I absolutely loved it too! I'll be stocking up on it!!!


----------



## BearKills

dwagoner said:


> i never said anything about what Chris said, and i dont care how anyone else builds strings, i guarantee there are many opinions and process' in how people make their own strings, that has nothing to do with anything i posted....
> 
> i corrected the people that are using incorrect terminology so they learn properly, to keep facts facts and let people take their own opinions on materails and process' . To use words like STABLE, STRETCH, CREEP and think they mean the same thing is not true....they are all in fact different words that describe a different trait. BUT i guess since YOU started this thread you want to be the gate keeper to all posts....and use improper words and such thats fine for YOU..... but im sure people learning do want to learn some things correctly from the start so they know what their talking about also....
> 
> like the saying goes....."if your gonna do something do it right the first time" that goes for learing about the materials also, not just how to build strings. theirs alot more than just wrapping strands and serving to be learned to become a skilled string maker....


I have to say, now that I've read this thread front to back twice, you have to be the least productive member to it. You come off as quite abrasive and condescending. I want you to know that I have nothing against you personally, but for a man trying to learn new ways to building strings, this thread has been chock full of good FREE information. I'm sure I'm not speaking for myself here when I say the thread would probably be better off without you.


----------



## GrayTech

My sample of fury is on its way. Looking forward to trying it.


----------



## GrayTech

Quick question about 452x. What length should I start at to come out with 85 1/4 inches finished string. First time building with 452x and would like to get it right the first time.


----------



## Huntinsker

GrayTech said:


> Quick question about 452x. What length should I start at to come out with 85 1/4 inches finished string. First time building with 452x and would like to get it right the first time.


It's different for every person depending on your build process and personal style. For me, I'd put my posts at 85 13/16 and use 56 twists plus/minus a few twists. But again, it more than likely won't be exactly the same for you.


----------



## OhWell

How is the price point on the Fury compared to X or 452X?


----------



## redyak3

OhWell said:


> How is the price point on the Fury compared to X or 452X?


PM Ray Knight and ask for a price list. He emailed me one, a few dollars more than the X but reviews have been favorable. I'm on the list for a Fury sample, call Brownells and ask for a sample. Hope to get it soon to make up my mind to switch to Fury for good or not.


----------



## bbell

Hey guys. I have been following this thread for a couple of months and have read it front to back. I never thought I would have been able to build my own strings but this thread definitely made it possible. I cant thank everyone enough for all the information they have shared on this forum and Huntinsker for responding to all the PM's I sent him with questions during the building process. I just finished my first set of strings and cables last week and was able to shoot them and they turned out way better than I could have imagined. I just started a set with a pinstripe for my brother and I thought I would share it with everyone. Not the best pinstripe ever but it was my first attempt at it and I am super happy. Thanks again everyone.


----------



## Huntinsker

bbell said:


> Hey guys. I have been following this thread for a couple of months and have read it front to back. I never thought I would have been able to build my own strings but this thread definitely made it possible. I cant thank everyone enough for all the information they have shared on this forum and Huntinsker for responding to all the PM's I sent him with questions during the building process. I just finished my first set of strings and cables last week and was able to shoot them and they turned out way better than I could have imagined. I just started a set with a pinstripe for my brother and I thought I would share it with everyone. Not the best pinstripe ever but it was my first attempt at it and I am super happy. Thanks again everyone.
> 
> View attachment 1927469


Looks great bbell! All burnished up and smooth and that'll look perfect. Good separation on the pins and you can't go wrong with that color combo. Well done.


----------



## BearKills

If you didn't have time to make your own jig, which jig would you buy to build strings as described in this thread?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Pm bownut400. I use his and love it


----------



## redyak3

Nice looking pin bbell!!! like that flo green


----------



## 2X_LUNG

This thread and AT is awesome. Doing these bc of all you guys!!!


----------



## automan26

bbell said:


> Hey guys. I have been following this thread for a couple of months and have read it front to back. I never thought I would have been able to build my own strings but this thread definitely made it possible. I cant thank everyone enough for all the information they have shared on this forum and Huntinsker for responding to all the PM's I sent him with questions during the building process. I just finished my first set of strings and cables last week and was able to shoot them and they turned out way better than I could have imagined. I just started a set with a pinstripe for my brother and I thought I would share it with everyone. Not the best pinstripe ever but it was my first attempt at it and I am super happy. Thanks again everyone.
> 
> View attachment 1927469


That is one sweeeeet string and the pinstripe looks great. My first attempt at doing a pinstripe went straight from my jig to the trash; no way was it good enough to post up for all to see. I like your color combo. I have the same colors and was wondering how they would look assembled like you have done. It looks great. Now your hooked ;-)

Automan


----------



## BearKills

2X_LUNG said:


> Pm bownut400. I use his and love it


Waiting on response. You got pictures?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

BearKills said:


> Waiting on response. You got pictures?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Not burnished yet


----------



## BearKills

Those look nice!


----------



## BearKills

Anybody done the math on average cost per string / cable inch using different materials? I'm particularly interested in Fury. I understand strand count will change it. Hopefully I can get a price sheet and sample soon!


----------



## Huntinsker

BearKills said:


> Anybody done the math on average cost per string / cable inch using different materials? I'm particularly interested in Fury. I understand strand count will change it. Hopefully I can get a price sheet and sample soon!


You can figure about $14-$18 per string or cable just in materials. Maybe more depending on what you pay for the material.


----------



## BearKills

Huntinsker said:


> You can figure about $14-$18 per string or cable just in materials. Maybe more depending on what you pay for the material.


Thanks! Exactly what I was hoping to get. Not nearly as bad as I thought!


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Hey guys, I see a lot of guys building some really good looking strings! I have a bunch of material that i am looking to get rid of, I have several different materials and I am just narrowing down to one or two types. I can sell the material in a large lot or just a few spools here and there. All are 1/4lbs and some are brand new still in the shrink wrap. PM for details and pricing!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Any x?


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Pm sent Hogwire


----------



## JJSREEZEN

Also pm sent hogwire


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Keep the PMs coming guys, i will weigh all the partials in the AM


----------



## dw'struth

Hey guys! Quick question....Is there a "best" serving to use for a "cable-eater" like the Mathew's Apex? Thanks!


----------



## Hogwire Strings

I use Bullwhip on most ends, however i have been playing around with Crown .018 diameter and its working great. You need a braided serving not a twisted.



dw'struth said:


> Hey guys! Quick question....Is there a "best" serving to use for a "cable-eater" like the Mathew's Apex? Thanks!


----------



## chenashot

Bullwhip is bomber. I use that almost exclusively


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Agreed!



chenashot said:


> Bullwhip is bomber. I use that almost exclusively


----------



## GrayTech

Huntinsker said:


> It's different for every person depending on your build process and personal style. For me, I'd put my posts at 85 13/16 and use 56 twists plus/minus a few twists. But again, it more than likely won't be exactly the same for you.


More or less what I had planned. Thanks


----------



## redyak3

Came home from work and the Fury sample pack was waiting. Stuff does feel pretty slick. Thinking about just placing an order from Ray Knight and doing a pin for my new to me Reezen 6.5.


----------



## dwagoner

dw'struth said:


> Hey guys! Quick question....Is there a "best" serving to use for a "cable-eater" like the Mathew's Apex? Thanks!


angel majesty #1 but expensive....but worth it.... or even braided center servings are super tough......


----------



## dwagoner

buddy13 said:


> I have learned a lot on this thread and it seems to be a happy place and I enjoy it very much dont really know creep stretch or but hole but been shooting since I was 12 making string since boy scouts.Thrown a lot away had a lot of problem everyone here has helped me with pleasure.Now I could send one of my strings to a pro builder and I am sure he would say ..Nice string!If you want to argue go to like one of those my bow is better than yours thread.Just a sugestion


i really dont care what you think about my posts..... im making sure facts are kept factual for those that DO care about learing properly.....


----------



## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> The Fury flo orange really pops against the black--more than flo orange and black 452X. I was very impressed when I burnished the string. When burnishing anything made from 452X that has black strands, the black likes to bleed across the other colors, making them appear a bit duller. After burnishing the Fury, the orange still popped like a neon sign. I have nothing negative at all to report about Fury except that I have a ton of 452X to get through before I can switch entirely to Fury, which is exactly what I am planning.
> 
> Stand down 452X, there's a new kid on be block and he's coming to take over and kick some BCY butt..
> 
> Automan


ive never had bleed issues with materials....not every spool is the same obviously, some may come with excess wax if you order regular so that has to be removed before obviously... specially not with black, its easier to make than other colors like reds, oranges, flos.... get the excess wax off is the key with any brand material, otherwise it will get together after you twist a string up..... 

i know Ray Knight even has told me the brownell Red is the worst for bleed....only that color, but red is one of the thickest colors right along with the Flo's when it comes to how much color it takes to get those. red and flo are the biggest and thickest colors.

the brownell orange in samples is kinda inbetween bcy sunset orange and flo orange. they are all different colors, different shades of orange


----------



## Ray knight

Loving the Fury!!! Its the best material i've used yet except the red bleeds bad. No other colors bleed at all. Makes a super strong and fast string and cable set. I really really may sell all my X material.


----------



## Ray knight

Feel the Fury!!!!


----------



## Jlathigee

Ray knight said:


> Feel the Fury!!!!


Really digging those speed nocks


----------



## Ray knight

Jlathigee said:


> Really digging those speed nocks


Thanks! if you want to try some click the link in my signature.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Those look great ray!!


----------



## BearKills

dwagoner said:


> i really dont care what you think about my posts..... im making sure facts are kept factual for those that DO care about learing properly.....


The fact that you have the audacity to state that you're qualified to police all string making threads as if your some authority, sums up your personality. Is there is some dictionary or glossary of string building terms published by ANSI or another standard setting organization? As if people in this thread haven't learned properly due to your anal semantics. There are some great and helpful string builders in this thread.


----------



## Huntinsker

Hogwire Strings said:


> I use Bullwhip on most ends, however i have been playing around with Crown .018 diameter and its working great. You need a braided serving not a twisted.





Ray knight said:


> Loving the Fury!!! Its the best material i've used yet except the red bleeds bad. No other colors bleed at all. Makes a super strong and fast string and cable set. I really really may sell all my X material.


I want to thank you guys for posting to this thread. It's really cool to see some of the best builders on AT offering up free advice for us wannabes haha! Shows just how good natured the AT community can be :thumbs_up


----------



## Ray knight

Huntinsker said:


> I want to thank you guys for posting to this thread. It's really cool to see some of the best builders on AT offering up free advice for us wannabes haha! Shows just how good natured the AT community can be :thumbs_up


No problem. I just saw Rob's post about Crown serving. I feel like i've been holding a secret with that stuff. Its AWESOME for lower buss/upper control cables. .018 crown. I think i may have convinced Brownell to make it in all colors as well so we will see soon! It has a very slick finish thats super durable and you can literally crank down your Beiter jig with wrenches and serve with it and it won't break. Goes on smaller than Bullwhip or .014 Halo, looks better, its slicker finish and just as durable. I've been using it for awhile now for cable ends (.018) and center serving (.018 or .022 depending on material) and have not seen any issues at all with it. My Crown cable ends on my personal bows all look brand new with thousands of shots. VERY under-rated material not many people even know about.


----------



## Ray knight

Shoot me an email at [email protected] and i'll send you a price list. I'm sure i can save you some $$$.


----------



## Huntinsker

Ray knight said:


> No problem. I just saw Rob's post about Crown serving. I feel like i've been holding a secret with that stuff. Its AWESOME for lower buss/upper control cables. .018 crown. I think i may have convinced Brownell to make it in all colors as well so we will see soon! It has a very slick finish thats super durable and you can literally crank down your Beiter jig with wrenches and serve with it and it won't break. Goes on smaller than Bullwhip or .014 Halo, looks better, its slicker finish and just as durable. I've been using it for awhile now for cable ends (.018) and center serving (.018 or .022 depending on material) and have not seen any issues at all with it. My Crown cable ends on my personal bows all look brand new with thousands of shots. VERY under-rated material not many people even know about.


How small does the .018 crown finish compared to .014 halo? I'd be really interested in it, especially if they come out with more colors, and if it finishes the same or smaller size. I'm not in love with the colored halo serving that I have. Some of it, the colored wax is dry and just flakes off so it looks an awful lot like dirty clear when I serve with it. It'd be nice if the fiber was colored before braiding it together so the color isn't lost when serving. Don't know for certain but just looking at the crown stuff on line, it looks like that's how it is......colored fibers braided together rather than coloring a white braid after the fact.


----------



## Ray knight

Huntinsker said:


> How small does the .018 crown finish compared to .014 halo? I'd be really interested in it, especially if they come out with more colors, and if it finishes the same or smaller size. I'm not in love with the colored halo serving that I have. Some of it, the colored wax is dry and just flakes off so it looks an awful lot like dirty clear when I serve with it. It'd be nice if the fiber was colored before braiding it together so the color isn't lost when serving. Don't know for certain but just looking at the crown stuff on line, it looks like that's how it is......colored fibers braided together rather than coloring a white braid after the fact.


.018 crown serves smaller than .014 Halo. A little smaller than Bullwhip even. I know what you mean on the chalky halo colors i won't even use it.


----------



## Ray knight

I carry .018 black crown in bulk if you need a cheap spool to try out.


----------



## Huntinsker

Ray knight said:


> Shoot me an email at [email protected] and i'll send you a price list. I'm sure i can save you some $$$.


Thanks man. I won't bother you for a spool just yet but I'll shoot you an email for a price list for sure.


----------



## Kaizoku

For those who have built 3 or 4 post jigs, how far apart do you have your posts?


----------



## jhinaz

Kaizoku said:


> For those who have built 3 or 4 post jigs, how far apart do you have your posts?


I have a commercially made one that has a 10 1/4" spread between posts, so that's what I built mine to also (10 1/4"). - John


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Crown and Bullwhip are amazing........ Ray and I agree on that 100%. I also use a lot of Mini serving on string ends, holds up well and since its twisted you have less to worry about with peep rotation.



Huntinsker said:


> Thanks man. I won't bother you for a spool just yet but I'll shoot you an email for a price list for sure.


----------



## Ray knight

If anyone needs BCY materials shoot me a PM i'm going to sell all My X material and a huge amount of BCY serving as well.


----------



## redyak3

Thanks Ray participating, and thanks for the pricelist, can't wait till payday....
I've been using Angel Majesty for serving the buss cable on my solocams, which are very hard on them. Running out of the Majesty, is Crown an equivalent, or Bullwhip?


----------



## BearKills

Anybody have and are willing to share a cheat sheet for appropriate serving material for string types.

ie. Majesty and crown on buss cable ends in a solo cam etc.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Comparing anything to Majesty is a little tough because that stuff is so durable. Id say that Bullwhip is the closest feel wise, however the Crown is so stinkin tough you wont go wrong either way. The only downside to Crown is that its only offered in Grey, Hunter Green and Black right now. Also the smallest diameter is .018 on the Crown, where you can get the smaller .014 diameter with the Bullwhip



redyak3 said:


> Thanks Ray participating, and thanks for the pricelist, can't wait till payday....
> I've been using Angel Majesty for serving the buss cable on my solocams, which are very hard on them. Running out of the Majesty, is Crown an equivalent, or Bullwhip?


----------



## redyak3

^^^
Thanks Hogwire! Think I'll try out some Crown when this jig of Majesty runs out.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

No problem bro, I can say with confidence that you will love it!



redyak3 said:


> ^^^
> Thanks Hogwire! Think I'll try out some Crown when this jig of Majesty runs out.


----------



## Ray knight

redyak3 said:


> ^^^
> Thanks Hogwire! Think I'll try out some Crown when this jig of Majesty runs out.


+1 on the crown its awesome stuff.


----------



## BearKills

I should have a jig soon! Where are you fellas getting your Brownell samples from?


----------



## redyak3

Just gotta give them a call and let them know you're interested in a Fury sample. Just got mine in this past week.


----------



## buddy13

dwagoner said:


> i really dont care what you think about my posts..... im making sure facts are kept factual for those that DO care about learing properly.....


 Seems no one else cares about your posts either.But if your vinegar entertains you keep it up.


----------



## horsetooth

dwagoner said:


> plucking strings to figure length is ridiculious, its not a trick, just measure the darn things..... it aint a guitar..... its way easier to just measure em and as accurate as you need.....and besides just cause there the same length doesnt always mean that the bow will be perfectly tuned when you install them. you still have to check draw stop timing regardless.... "plucking" strings.....LMAO


Using harmonics is incredibly more accurate than any tape measure you can find. "It aint a guitar" but the principles are universal.
And it Gits R Dun!


----------



## Ray knight

horsetooth said:


> Using harmonics is incredibly more accurate than any tape measure you can find. "It aint a guitar" but the principles are universal.
> And it Gits R Dun!


----------



## dwagoner

horsetooth said:


> Using harmonics is incredibly more accurate than any tape measure you can find. "It aint a guitar" but the principles are universal.
> And it Gits R Dun!


YEAHHHHHH thats why top string companies have extremely accurate measuring devices to check lengths over "plucking and twanging" the strings.....

first off you dont have to have a string to .0005" length anyways, you have to install them and tune ON the bow, as their all not 100% equal.

and to tune to "harmonics" as you said takes more than just a persons ear..... 

"plucking and twanging" to measure lengths is ridiculious and why only ONE person in the world woulda thought of that just in the past year, if it were easier, quicker, and more accurate then it would be done across the board.....but its not...!!!!

but you believe whatever you want, thats fine, tis a free country and Free forums where anyone can post wherever they like...BUT id guess its used by no more than maybe 1% anyways .....go figure huh?


----------



## dwagoner

BearKills said:


> The fact that you have the audacity to state that you're qualified to police all string making threads as if your some authority, sums up your personality. Is there is some dictionary or glossary of string building terms published by ANSI or another standard setting organization? As if people in this thread haven't learned properly due to your anal semantics. There are some great and helpful string builders in this thread.


Their is.... its not a hoax, nor some special inside information, its factual.....not just an opinion, read up on it for yourself....

their is great help in this thread, and learing characteristics of string materials, knowing what they do and dont do is also part of learning how to be a better string builder...

SO once again.....how a material acts on a stretcher has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with stability....stability refers to how well it keeps its length, aka NO creep....which can and usually turns into peep rotation..... Stretch and Creep are 2 totally different charachteristics of a string material....


----------



## dwagoner

Kaizoku said:


> For those who have built 3 or 4 post jigs, how far apart do you have your posts?


10-12" spread , dont see any need for more or less, so anywhere inbetween will work. if i was gonna make id make super stout setup at 12" for the room to serve. if you can make posts that are rock solid on their bases you will be more happy for sure.... kinda hard to go overkill on the post sturdyness, but definitely can go flimsy and weak so make em beefy for your own good, it will help your finished product....


----------



## BearKills

dwagoner said:


> Their is.... its not a hoax, nor some special inside information, its factual.....not just an opinion, read up on it for yourself....
> 
> their is great help in this thread, and learing characteristics of string materials, knowing what they do and dont do is also part of learning how to be a better string builder...
> 
> SO once again.....how a material acts on a stretcher has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with stability....stability refers to how well it keeps its length, aka NO creep....which can and usually turns into peep rotation..... Stretch and Creep are 2 totally different charachteristics of a string material....


Can you please reference it for me? What is the name of this string building standard / glossary? Can you link me to it? What organization police's it? Link to a hardcopy?


----------



## automan26

*To TWANG or not to TWANG, that is the question.*

When I TWANG my cables I get perfectly or nearly perfectly matched cable lengths every time. On the last set of cables I built I TWANGED them and they were within 1/32" (maybe less) from the moment I took the bow off the press. When I simply measure the cable lengths one at a time, I get cables that are close, but not perfect. When the initial lengths are perfectly matched fine-tuning is much simpler. If one cable is a few twists longer than its mate, which cable do I adjust; do I make one shorter or do I make the other cable longer? TWANGING simplifies the setup procedure by taking all the guesswork out of proper cable length. My press is an hour away from the range where I go to shoot. I shoot a center pivot Sentinel and not every range has a press that I can use to make adjustments, so it is great when I can confidently show up at the range with a brand new set of never-shot threads and have the confidence that everything is set perfectly and will stay set perfectly until I decide to go home.

If you do not choose to TWANG the cables, you are by no means a bad guy, but neither are you a moron if you choose to do it. I love it when I install a set of threads and everything starts off _perfect_ and stays _perfect_ from the first moment I remove the bow from the press till I decide to change out the threads. Nothing creeps/stretches, moves, or rotates EVER!!!

Automan


----------



## MJForce

automan26 said:


> When I TWANG my cables I get perfectly or nearly perfectly matched cable lengths every time. On the last set of cables I built I TWANGED them and they were within 1/32" (maybe less) from the moment I took the bow off the press.
> 
> Automan


Not sure if it's been mentioned but; Would a guitar tuner help? A digital tuner could show the frequency or tone of a vibrating string. Changes in frequency would show string stretch over time. Once your initial set up is complete, referencing the tone or frequency could be used to help return your strings to initial tuning. 
I have an app for that.


----------



## horsetooth

dwagoner said:


> YEAHHHHHH thats why top string companies have extremely accurate measuring devices to check lengths over "plucking and twanging" the strings.....
> 
> first off you dont have to have a string to .0005" length anyways, you have to install them and tune ON the bow, as their all not 100% equal.
> 
> and to tune to "harmonics" as you said takes more than just a persons ear.....
> 
> "plucking and twanging" to measure lengths is ridiculious and why only ONE person in the world woulda thought of that just in the past year, if it were easier, quicker, and more accurate then it would be done across the board.....but its not...!!!!
> 
> but you believe whatever you want, thats fine, tis a free country and Free forums where anyone can post wherever they like...BUT id guess its used by no more than maybe 1% anyways .....go figure huh?


Your analogy to a guitar is exactly the best way to describe to you how extremely accurate "twanging" can be. But I get the feeling you are completely uninterested in learning.
Oh well.
There are many people who are interested in learning. Automan26 is using harmonics to determine string length and not for some novel lesson in physics. This method SAVES HIM TIME.

Saving time is a practical reason to use an alternative measuring method. A very pragmatic and noble approach to bow tuning.

Exploring alternative methods is the heart and soul of this forum and in particular this thread.

It would be an absolute shame if this thread were confined to the industry standard, regulated by "experienced" industry leaders. In fact it would most likely fade away...............:deadhorse


----------



## Huntinsker

Ray knight said:


>


That's good haha. Too bad he has his guitar upside down though. Even when Jimi Hendrix played his right hand guitars left handed, he would switch the strings so that the orientation was for left handers and would keep the low strings on top.

I haven't done the harmonic tuning yet, mostly because I don't have a binary bow with 2 control cables and I haven't made a set for one in a while. I have a guitar tuner and think that it would definitely help in measuring that way if you were to do it.


----------



## MJForce

I believe that once you have the measured frequency of a string or cable, and apply the length of where two end points touch the cam, you could determine the tension of that string or cable. 

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/string.html


----------



## Ray knight

How is it possible to set up the cables in a way that you can get the same tone with the same length cables on one jig? If you have straight posts on your stretcher, the top one will be looser due to flex. If you have a little john stretcher then the top one will be tighter due to angled posts. If you have a Round hook then no way to get them the same tension on the same hook. Please explain how you do it because it makes no sense to me honestly. Anyone have pics of both cables on the stretcher? I normally lay up and do my loops and pull straight off before twisting it then i do the other so i know they are the exact same length. The jig is fixed. Then i put the exact same number of twists in. Then i stretch for the exact same amount of time. If i put these 2 identical cables on the same posts of ANY of my stretchers they do not make the same tone if you pluck them. Now if you had a REALLY precision 4 post stretcher setup something thats custom built for exactly this purpose then it may work well but with any commercially available stretcher i cannot fathom how its possible. If i adjust them to the same tone then one is longer then the other every time on any of my stretchers. PICS PLEASE!! Show me.


----------



## Ray knight

What would work well i think would also be some kind of 4 post stretcher with one end fixed and one end that pivots and has a dial guage so if its centered, both cables are exact same length.


----------



## nuts&bolts

*TWAAANG....or SAAAAG....your choice.*

SAG method.

For hearing impaired folks,
where the TWANG method,
obviously, will not work.



ONE weight.
Separate chain links.

Both cables under the SAME tension.

Soooo,
twist or UNTWIST,
until you have the SAME amount of VISUAL SAG.

When you have matched amounts of SAG, by visual inspection,
then,
both cables are MATCHED for length,
within 1/2 twist.

BEATS a tape measure every time.



I use a pen,
and eyeball for LEVEL.



NOT industry standard,
so ......Your Mileage May Vary.





*I switched up to two weight plates...in the end.*

TRY it and see how you LIKE it.

Might save you some time...to match up two cables to the same length,
when working on binary cam bows, with no yoke cables.

Alan


----------



## Huntinsker

Ray knight said:


> How is it possible to set up the cables in a way that you can get the same tone with the same length cables on one jig? If you have straight posts on your stretcher, the top one will be looser due to flex. If you have a little john stretcher then the top one will be tighter due to angled posts. If you have a Round hook then no way to get them the same tension on the same hook. Please explain how you do it because it makes no sense to me honestly. Anyone have pics of both cables on the stretcher? I normally lay up and do my loops and pull straight off before twisting it then i do the other so i know they are the exact same length. The jig is fixed. Then i put the exact same number of twists in. Then i stretch for the exact same amount of time. If i put these 2 identical cables on the same posts of ANY of my stretchers they do not make the same tone if you pluck them. Now if you had a REALLY precision 4 post stretcher setup something thats custom built for exactly this purpose then it may work well but with any commercially available stretcher i cannot fathom how its possible. If i adjust them to the same tone then one is longer then the other every time on any of my stretchers. PICS PLEASE!! Show me.


If you can get your cables stretched to the same exact tension, you can do one at a time and use a tuner to make sure you're getting the same tone. Looks like Nuts&Bolts' idea is pretty good too.


----------



## Ray knight

Huntinsker said:


> If you can get your cables stretched to the same exact tension, you can do one at a time and use a tuner to make sure you're getting the same tone. Looks like Nuts&Bolts' idea is pretty good too.


If they are the same tension would they not make the same audible tone? I'm lost on this one.


----------



## Huntinsker

Ray knight said:


> If they are the same tension would they not make the same audible tone? I'm lost on this one.


If a string is longer or shorter, but the same material and the same tension, it will change the tone. Here's a paragraph I took from Wikipedia about it. I know it's Wikipedia and anyone can post there but I'm not sure why someone would lie about how a piano works.

"The strings of a piano vary in thickness, and therefore in mass per length, with bass strings thicker than treble. A typical range is from 1/30 inch (.85 mm) for the highest treble strings to 1/3 inch (8.5 mm) for the lowest bass. These differences in string thickness follow from well-understood acoustic properties of strings.

Given two strings, equally taut and heavy, one twice as long as the other, the longer would vibrate with a pitch one octave lower than the shorter. However, if one were to use this principle to design a piano it would be impossible to fit the bass strings onto a frame of any reasonable size. Furthermore, in such a hypothetical, gigantic piano, the lowest strings would travel so far in vibrating that they would strike one another. Instead, piano makers take advantage of the fact that a heavy string vibrates more slowly than a light string of identical length and tension; thus, the bass strings on the piano are much thicker than the others."


----------



## retrieverfishin

This thread has gone from helpful to ridiculous in 2 pages. I fail to see how any of this is simpler or more accurate than measuring. Fine tune on the bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

retrieverfishin said:


> This thread has gone from helpful to ridiculous in 2 pages. I fail to see how any of this is simpler or more accurate than measuring. Fine tune on the bow.


I don't think it's ridiculous. This thread is about people offering up advice on how they do things and if you think it's worth trying, you're welcome to the information. I think measuring with a tape measure is pretty accurate in most cases but I can see how these methods would actually be more consistent between the two cables. Half the amount of measuring means half the amount of error. If nothing else, it may get people using their brain and thinking of new ways to do things.


----------



## Huntinsker

Ray knight said:


> If they are the same tension would they not make the same audible tone? I'm lost on this one.


Just thought of another example after looking at my guitars. The tension on the length of the guitar string is the same from the tuning peg all the way to the bridge. The part that goes from the tuning peg to the nut is under the same tension and is obviously the same diameter as the rest of the string but the nut acts to stop the vibration at that point. It essentially splits the 1 single string to 2 of different lengths but equal tensions. If you pluck the short section from the peg to the nut, it's much higher in tone than the rest of the string. The higher tone is caused by the much shorter length increasing the frequency.


----------



## nuts&bolts

Huntinsker said:


> Just thought of another example after looking at my guitars. The tension on the length of the guitar string is the same from the tuning peg all the way to the bridge. The part that goes from the tuning peg to the nut is under the same tension and is obviously the same diameter as the rest of the string but the nut acts to stop the vibration at that point. It essentially splits the 1 single string to 2 of different lengths but equal tensions. If you pluck the short section from the peg to the nut, it's much higher in tone than the rest of the string. The higher tone is caused by the much shorter length increasing the frequency.


Short length.
Same tension.

Short length vibrates faster, less weight.
Faster vibration, high pitch sound.

Long length.
Same tension. More mass.
Longer length vibrates slower, cuz more weight.
Slower vibration, low pitch sound.

SAME tension,
same length,
same amplitude (height of movement from vibration (peak to valley)).
Same amount of movement, same speed of movement....same sound, same tension, same LENGTH.


----------



## nuts&bolts

Huntinsker said:


> I don't think it's ridiculous. This thread is about people offering up advice on how they do things and if you think it's worth trying, you're welcome to the information. I think measuring with a tape measure is pretty accurate in most cases but I can see how these methods would actually be more consistent between the two cables. Half the amount of measuring means half the amount of error. If nothing else, it may get people using their brain and thinking of new ways to do things.


SAG method is easier to understand.


----------



## Ray knight

Tape measure or laser tape is the best way to measure your cables. Plucking them to hear tonal difference is not going to be accurate unless you have a jig to set bot strings identical length and tension at the same time which nothing on the market is that accurate. Even then, it would really not save time either. You can only adjust 1/2 twist at a time. Just use the darn measuring tape haha.


----------



## retrieverfishin

Ray knight said:


> Tape measure or laser tape is the best way to measure your cables. Plucking them to hear tonal difference is not going to be accurate unless you have a jig to set bot strings identical length and tension at the same time which nothing on the market is that accurate. Even then, it would really not save time either. You can only adjust 1/2 twist at a time. Just use the darn measuring tape haha.


Agreed.


----------



## b0w_bender

BearKills said:


> Can you please reference it for me? What is the name of this string building standard / glossary? Can you link me to it? What organization police's it? Link to a hardcopy?


Not sure if you were supplied with the info about creep vs stretch you requested but here it is, it's the very first question they answered. I didn't look at the brownell site but I'm sure they would concur.
http://www.bcyfibers.com/FAQs.php


----------



## automan26

Some have expressed questions about how to set up the jig to TWANG the cables. I simply stretch both cables across the jig posts, one slightly above the other and tension them to around 100#. I pluck each cable and adjust the cable on top to get the tone to match as closely as possible. I often do not get a PERFECT tone match, but I can get close enough to where one cable tunes sharp and the other is flat. There is sometimes a point where the top cable tunes sharp of the bottom cable, but with 1/2 a twist it tunes flat; I know at that point that I am close enough to a matched cable length that the bow isn't going to show a difference in cam sync. I have found that even when I measure with a tape measure and get the cables to measure exactly the same, they are not close enough in length to get a matched tone. On my last set of cables I had to remove a couple twists in the upper cable to get the tone to match. When I put the cables on the bow, the cam dots matched perfectly.

As I mentioned above, the dots I use as a reference mark on my Sentinel cams are very, very tiny and very close together and if I do not get the cams synced to a perfect dot-to-dot result, I am so very close that any further adjustment is a waste of time. It may appear there are so many variables that this method can't work, but the dots on my cams tell a different story.

Automan


----------



## redyak3

I love my guitars, being a carpenter, I trust my tape measure.


----------



## Ray knight

automan26 said:


> Some have expressed questions about how to set up the jig to TWANG the cables. I simply stretch both cables across the jig posts, one slightly above the other and tension them to around 100#. I pluck each cable and adjust the cable on top to get the tone to match as closely as possible. I often do not get a PERFECT tone match, but I can get close enough to where one cable tunes sharp and the other is flat. There is sometimes a point where the top cable tunes sharp of the bottom cable, but with 1/2 a twist it tunes flat; I know at that point that I am close enough to a matched cable length that the bow isn't going to show a difference in cam sync. I have found that even when I measure with a tape measure and get the cables to measure exactly the same, they are not close enough in length to get a matched tone. On my last set of cables I had to remove a couple twists in the upper cable to get the tone to match. When I put the cables on the bow, the cam dots matched perfectly.
> 
> As I mentioned above, the dots I use as a reference mark on my Sentinel cams are very, very tiny and very close together and if I do not get the cams synced to a perfect dot-to-dot result, I am so very close that any further adjustment is a waste of time. It may appear there are so many variables that this method can't work, but the dots on my cams tell a different story.
> 
> Automan


If you measure, and they are the same but have a different "tone" its because your stretcher is not a flat post. So if they have the same tone then they cannot be equal length if they are on the same stretcher post. Especially on a J hook or little john with the angled posts but any other stretcher, under tension, one will be tighter due to flex in the post. When i get orders for strings my customers ask for something like 33 1/16". Never had anyone request they play a B flat. I totally agree that if there was a special jig that had a perfect right angle and exact to the thousanth of an inch tolorance between posts that you could hang two cables and match the tones. But they are on unequal load on a J-hook, on a little John post, or on any straight post. So if you take two identical length cables and put them on the same post, one will be under more tension than the other every time. If you adjust to the same tension on an uneven post, then you will no longer have equal length cables. I suggest building each cable on a fixed jig and pulling it off before twisting. When you finish the second one (or 4th with a DST) then twist, find the length, then put the exact same number of twists in each one. Stretch at the same tension for the same time. They will be as equal as is humanly possible to build.


----------



## Huntinsker

Okay, new topic. I've been thinking for some time of serving material alternatives. Many braided fishing lines are made from dyneema and spectra, the same materials that a lot of serving materials are made of. Braided fishing line is typically cheaper than most serving materials too. I also like the idea of some of the smaller diameters that the fishing lines have. The smallest I've found is a Cabela's brand line that is .003" diameter. I think that would be awesome to use under cable slides or through roller guards. Anyway, what other materials have you guys used or thought about using as serving?


----------



## Ray knight

Huntinsker said:


> Okay, new topic. I've been thinking for some time of serving material alternatives. Many braided fishing lines are made from dyneema and spectra, the same materials that a lot of serving materials are made of. Braided fishing line is typically cheaper than most serving materials too. I also like the idea of some of the smaller diameters that the fishing lines have. The smallest I've found is a Cabela's brand line that is .003" diameter. I think that would be awesome to use under cable slides or through roller guards. Anyway, what other materials have you guys used or thought about using as serving?


i have some thats about .012 diameter and works really well for super tight cam tracks. Its stronger than .008 Halo and smaller than .014 Halo and Bullwhip. its a looser braid so its actually bendable unlike tight served Halo so it works great for some applications. I've never tried "normal size" line but i imagine it would work great. I am running the spectra braid on my 36 strand Fury cables on my Elites.


----------



## Huntinsker

Huntinsker said:


> Okay, new topic. I've been thinking for some time of serving material alternatives. Many braided fishing lines are made from dyneema and spectra, the same materials that a lot of serving materials are made of. Braided fishing line is typically cheaper than most serving materials too. I also like the idea of some of the smaller diameters that the fishing lines have. The smallest I've found is a Cabela's brand line that is .003" diameter. I think that would be awesome to use under cable slides or through roller guards. Anyway, what other materials have you guys used or thought about using as serving?


Just found 3lb test Power Pro spectra is .0024 diameter. That's CRAZY small!


----------



## redyak3

Price the greatest advantage to using smaller diameter fishing line? Is there a "performance" advantage over the company products as well?


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> Price the greatest advantage to using smaller diameter fishing line? Is there a "performance" advantage over the company products as well?


I don't really know. I know of people that have used it with success and like Ray said above, he's using it on his Elites. Many of the fishing lines advertise high abrasion resistance, low stretch and very round fibers. All things that would be good properties for serving material, especially around cams and through cable slides and roller guards. I guess I was fishing for people experiences and if they thought the performance was equal or better to traditionally marketed serving materials.


----------



## Ray knight

The braided spectra line does not replace Halo or Bullwhip or Crown for all applications but when you need a very small serving thats super tough and flexible enough to go around tight bends without breaking, its hard to find anything that works better. Its good stuff for that purpose and holds up as well as any braided servings.


----------



## dwagoner

retrieverfishin said:


> This thread has gone from helpful to ridiculous in 2 pages. I fail to see how any of this is simpler or more accurate than measuring. Fine tune on the bow.


AMEN to that...



Huntinsker said:


> I don't think it's ridiculous. This thread is about people offering up advice on how they do things and if you think it's worth trying, you're welcome to the information. I think measuring with a tape measure is pretty accurate in most cases but I can see how these methods would actually be more consistent between the two cables. Half the amount of measuring means half the amount of error. If nothing else, it may get people using their brain and thinking of new ways to do things.


nuff said.....



Ray knight said:


> Tape measure or laser tape is the best way to measure your cables. Plucking them to hear tonal difference is not going to be accurate unless you have a jig to set bot strings identical length and tension at the same time which nothing on the market is that accurate. Even then, it would really not save time either. You can only adjust 1/2 twist at a time. Just use the darn measuring tape haha.


THANK YOU now thats 3 people that are in agreement on Plucking, Twanging, or hanging a damn pen on a set of cables to measure them when you still need to put them on a bow and tune the damn bow.... like said you have 1/2 turn adjustments only, ever measure that amount of movement in lenght?? were not talking .001" 

Theres no reason to have to buy all kinds of equipment to stretch and play the string guitar or buy weights to hand a pen on them to measure...people dont have that time to wait to order stretching jigs, or the money. Its not that hard to mount on a bow and do some tuning anyways....


----------



## bucks/bulls

Ray knight said:


> Tape measure or laser tape is the best way to measure your cables. Plucking them to hear tonal difference is not going to be accurate unless you have a jig to set bot strings identical length and tension at the same time which nothing on the market is that accurate. Even then, it would really not save time either. You can only adjust 1/2 twist at a time. Just use the darn measuring tape haha.


Agreed! My human ears are only perfect enough to hear sound differences when I'm listening for deer in the woods lol! 
Buuuut just because I am curious...aaaaand I know my Strothers is already timed to perfection,I'm going to give this a whirl just to see if I get the same tone from both my cables or not..


----------



## automan26

I have been using braided Spectra fishing line on the area where my cables go through the rollers and it really looks sweet because it is almost completely transparent. Be careful about using a fishing line that is too thin, you will have problems. I use a 20# test line, but I now wish I had gone with something heavier. Three times I have had the line break without warning right at the end of the job. Ten more wraps and I am done, then pop, it breaks. Years ago I used yellow 80# Spiderwire for awhile and the diameter was about the same as 3D serving. I got away from it simply because the yellow looked great until I put about 500 shots through the string and then it started showing dirt and started looking horrible.

I just started using the clear line on my cables so I can't attest to how it will hold up being that thin, but it does show a very slight bit of cloudiness once it starts breaking in. It is nothing serious yet, it just isn't as perfectly clear as it was when I started using it. When I do wrap the 20# line it is nearly impossible to see the individual threads in the wrap; it looks like a clear coating applied to the string which is cool.

Test and see what works for you, but in my LIMITED experience, I find that anything less than 20# braided line might cause issues. (Maybe?) But there is every possibility that I could be wrong. Like I mentioned, my experience with this material is very LIMITED.

Auktoman


----------



## Kaizoku

dwagoner said:


> 10-12" spread , dont see any need for more or less, so anywhere inbetween will work. if i was gonna make id make super stout setup at 12" for the room to serve. if you can make posts that are rock solid on their bases you will be more happy for sure.... kinda hard to go overkill on the post sturdyness, but definitely can go flimsy and weak so make em beefy for your own good, it will help your finished product....


I bought 1-3/16" round steel stock. The base they will attach to is 1/2" steel flat stock. I also bought 1/4"x1-1/4" dowel pins instead of bolts for the pins. You think this is sturdy enough?


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaizoku said:


> I bought 1-3/16" round steel stock. The base they will attach to is 1/2" steel flat stock. I also bought 1/4"x1-1/4" dowel pins instead of bolts for the pins. You think this is sturdy enough?


Sounds good to me. You may want to make a support that goes to the round stock and then down to your mounting piece to help stop some bowing that may occur under higher weights too. If you put a piece from each post to the center support, it will help stop flex both toward the middle of the jig and a little toward each other. A 45 degree angle would be the best for these supports. Something like the red pieces in this pic. Sorry it kind of sucks, I made it really quick on powerpoint.


----------



## BrownDog2

Thanks for all of the info everyone. Time to get the materials together.


----------



## Bownut400

Kaizoku said:


> I bought 1-3/16" round steel stock. The base they will attach to is 1/2" steel flat stock. I also bought 1/4"x1-1/4" dowel pins instead of bolts for the pins. You think this is sturdy enough?


I have made a few jigs with 1/2" flat stock as the base and it will flex under 300 lbs of tension, so you will need to brace it some how. I made this trying to figure out the swinging 2 post with out removing. I have not tried it enough to say it will work. I have also tried a version of the 2 post split side by side with braces going back and found that you really have to have your unistrut stiff it will flex side ways if you don't. I am thinking 2x2 square tube 1/4" wall thickness to keep it stiff enough.. Hope this helps..


----------



## [email protected]

Bump for others.

I've got a question for you. I've been serving under 4.5-5# tension, haven't had any wraps messed up. No separation. No rotation.

You got any ideas on building a string with several colors in each yoke legs... without having each left twisted in in equal amounts.


So I've built a set, shot them like crazy and have my bow tuned up pretty well. Now I'm looking to find a way to end up with multi colored strings, in each yoke leg, with the same visual twist in each yoke leg.

Thinking of a jig with three posts. A can post and both yoke posts bolted to a plate that will pivot. Then take my tuned strings, tension it to 100# and get a micrometer accurate measurement of each measurement from can post to each yoke leg.

Sound like an idea worth playing with?


----------



## redyak3

A question on the braided fishing line. How do you folks wind the line on an empty spool that fits the serving tool so it feeds consistently? I'll probably just go with the "regular" serving products, but the fishing line is an interesting alternative.


----------



## Rudyonthefly

redyak3 said:


> A question on the braided fishing line. How do you folks wind the line on an empty spool that fits the serving tool so it feeds consistently?


I use an old empty spool. Mine has a bunch of "tangs" in the center which form the hole. I stuck an appropriate seize allen key through the hole (so the little "tangs" are engaged by the allen key). I then inserted the portion of the allen key that protruded the spool into my cordless drill chuck. I put the drill ( with the spool attached as described) into my vice. Run the drill at a comfortable speed in order to transfer the line from the large fishing spool to the serving spool. Whole process took maybe 2 min of winding once I had it all figured out.


----------



## Huntinsker

[email protected] said:


> Bump for others.
> 
> I've got a question for you. I've been serving under 4.5-5# tension, haven't had any wraps messed up. No separation. No rotation.
> 
> You got any ideas on building a string with several colors in each yoke legs... without having each left twisted in in equal amounts.
> 
> 
> So I've built a set, shot them like crazy and have my bow tuned up pretty well. Now I'm looking to find a way to end up with multi colored strings, in each yoke leg, with the same visual twist in each yoke leg.
> 
> Thinking of a jig with three posts. A can post and both yoke posts bolted to a plate that will pivot. Then take my tuned strings, tension it to 100# and get a micrometer accurate measurement of each measurement from can post to each yoke leg.
> 
> Sound like an idea worth playing with?


I think any idea is worth trying as long as it's safe. I think you're looking at really complicating things though. Personally I wouldn't mess with it but if you can figure out an efficient way to do it and you think you'd prefer the look, run with it. I think if I understand what you're imagining, you'll have a 3 post jig where the double post end can pivot so you can build each leg to a different length. I'd make sure if you did make this, that you overbuild it and make it super stiff. Unfortunately because you'll have to have it pivot to different lengths for different cables, you'll have to have some way to lock it in place which could potentially be a weak point. That also means that you won't be able to have a permanent support going from the posts to the base. That will require some seriously stiff material to stop flexing at 300 or more pounds.


----------



## Huntinsker

redyak3 said:


> A question on the braided fishing line. How do you folks wind the line on an empty spool that fits the serving tool so it feeds consistently? I'll probably just go with the "regular" serving products, but the fishing line is an interesting alternative.





Rudyonthefly said:


> I use an old empty spool. Mine has a bunch of "tangs" in the center which form the hole. I stuck an appropriate seize allen key through the hole (so the little "tangs" are engaged by the allen key). I then inserted the portion of the allen key that protruded the spool into my cordless drill chuck. I put the drill ( with the spool attached as described) into my vice. Run the drill at a comfortable speed in order to transfer the line from the large fishing spool to the serving spool. Whole process took maybe 2 min of winding once I had it all figured out.


I had a very similar idea to what Rudy does. Should be pretty simple and quick. I'm thinking of holding the line with a towel so I can put a little tension on it and feed it on the spool with my hand so it lays down nice and smooth.

I just put in an order for some spools of this stuff. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Fish...=SBC;MMcat104793480;cat104719680;cat104612580

I ordered some 6lb test (.002") some 15lb test (.006") and some 40lb test (.012") all in the "Frost" color. I went and looked at and felt all the braided lines that Cabela's had and this stuff looked like it would work beautifully. It's a lot smoother than Halo and is still a braided spectra. It's also less expensive than most of the other stuff and has a higher breaking strength than the same diameter halo.


----------



## [email protected]

Huntinsker said:


> I think any idea is worth trying as long as it's safe. I think you're looking at really complicating things though. Personally I wouldn't mess with it but if you can figure out an efficient way to do it and you think you'd prefer the look, run with it. I think if I understand what you're imagining, you'll have a 3 post jig where the double post end can pivot so you can build each leg to a different length. I'd make sure if you did make this, that you overbuild it and make it super stiff. Unfortunately because you'll have to have it pivot to different lengths for different cables, you'll have to have some way to lock it in place which could potentially be a weak point. That also means that you won't be able to have a permanent support going from the posts to the base. That will require some seriously stiff material to stop flexing at 300 or more pounds.


Thank you for your reply. I've been kicking ideas around with it for several months. Got access to a weilder and steel so maybe it will pan out. I will send yu a PM over it when I'm done, maybe we can share a few Ideas.

Thanks again!


----------



## Huntinsker

[email protected] said:


> Thank you for your reply. I've been kicking ideas around with it for several months. Got access to a weilder and steel so maybe it will pan out. I will send yu a PM over it when I'm done, maybe we can share a few Ideas.
> 
> Thanks again!


Sounds good!


----------



## redyak3

Rudyonthefly said:


> I use an old empty spool. Mine has a bunch of "tangs" in the center which form the hole. I stuck an appropriate seize allen key through the hole (so the little "tangs" are engaged by the allen key). I then inserted the portion of the allen key that protruded the spool into my cordless drill chuck. I put the drill ( with the spool attached as described) into my vice. Run the drill at a comfortable speed in order to transfer the line from the large fishing spool to the serving spool. Whole process took maybe 2 min of winding once I had it all figured out.


Thanks, I'll give it a whorl. Found this on ebay. I saw the .32mm stuff that Ray uses but the color didn't work for me. It's 100% dyneema, saratoga spectra braid but .40mm a little < .017. Cheap @ 9.90 free shipping, ebayer has a lot of different colors and weights. This should work with the Fury sample...


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Hey guys, i still have some misc rhino material im looking to get rid of.... PM me with questions, like to do a package deal but will break up


----------



## GrayTech

Just use a bolt and nut with a bit of extra length for the spool and clamp in your drill. Run it through the thread tensioner on my industrial sewing machine to get even tension, but have also just gauged by hand and it worked ok.


----------



## #40Fan

Well, that was an interesting 37 pages to read, except for what's his name. 

I thought the dyed serving (actually he just used a marker) looked promising. Got me to thinking.

Why not take a light color of serving material and wrap it around two pegs that are 4" or more apart. Than you can dip half of the loop (submerging one of the pegs) into a darker material to dye it. If the pegs are 4" apart you would get 4" of dyed serving and 4" of the light color. Rewind it on an old bobbin to serve. How many wraps could you get out of 4"? Heck, you could even loop the lighter material around three pegs and with careful dipping get three different colors out of the serving.


----------



## OhWell

#40Fan said:


> Well, that was an interesting 37 pages to read, except for what's his name.
> 
> I thought the dyed serving (actually he just used a marker) looked promising. Got me to thinking.
> 
> Why not take a light color of serving material and wrap it around two pegs that are 4" or more apart. Than you can dip half of the loop (submerging one of the pegs) into a darker material to dye it. If the pegs are 4" apart you would get 4" of dyed serving and 4" of the light color. Rewind it on an old bobbin to serve. How many wraps could you get out of 4"? Heck, you could even loop the lighter material around three pegs and with careful dipping get three different colors out of the serving.


If you use thin white Spectra fishing line it goes on almost clear if served tightly. The 40lb white I used inside some loops went on clear. This way you see the string underneath.


----------



## OhWell

redyak3 said:


> Thanks, I'll give it a whorl. Found this on ebay. I saw the .32mm stuff that Ray uses but the color didn't work for me. It's 100% dyneema, saratoga spectra braid but .40mm a little < .017. Cheap @ 9.90 free shipping, ebayer has a lot of different colors and weights. This should work with the Fury sample...


I just got some of that exact stuff except for the color, I got white. The stuff is really nice.


----------



## Huntinsker

#40Fan said:


> Well, that was an interesting 37 pages to read, except for what's his name.
> 
> I thought the dyed serving (actually he just used a marker) looked promising. Got me to thinking.
> 
> Why not take a light color of serving material and wrap it around two pegs that are 4" or more apart. Than you can dip half of the loop (submerging one of the pegs) into a darker material to dye it. If the pegs are 4" apart you would get 4" of dyed serving and 4" of the light color. Rewind it on an old bobbin to serve. How many wraps could you get out of 4"? Heck, you could even loop the lighter material around three pegs and with careful dipping get three different colors out of the serving.


Glad you liked it and welcome to AT!


----------



## Backstop

Finally built a set of strings for my cst, using all the info from this thread..I built my own string jig.. based on the design here... works great.






the strings are working as good as my factory strings.. no rotation on the peep.. still getting the same speed as the factory strings... after seeing the TPU speed nock system talked about on this forum I went to ebay and got some!!






All I can say is that THEY WORK !!! I went from






to






with the TPU speed nocks.. I like the look also.. Thanks to all the guys chiming in on Thu forum !! I appreciate it !


----------



## Huntinsker

Awesome work Backstop!


----------



## Ray knight

Backstop said:


> Finally built a set of strings for my cst, using all the info from this thread..I built my own string jig.. based on the design here... works great.
> View attachment 1938696
> the strings are working as good as my factory strings.. no rotation on the peep.. still getting the same speed as the factory strings... after seeing the TPU speed nock system talked about on this forum I went to ebay and got some!!
> View attachment 1938701
> All I can say is that THEY WORK !!! I went from
> View attachment 1938703
> to
> View attachment 1938704
> with the TPU speed nocks.. I like the look also.. Thanks to all the guys chiming in on Thu forum !! I appreciate it !


12 fps gain with the TPU nocks wow!! I'm getting some great speeds with them too. That is HUGE though. Awesome! Strings look great too.


----------



## Ray knight

Anyone starting out needing some serving here is a great deal http://www.ebay.com/itm/161283760532?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

I'm just clearing it all out (BCY material) so started it at $1 for the whole lot and no reserve.


----------



## PapaD

Ray are you extending the serving on the PSE Supra Max to make room for the TPU nocks?


----------



## dwagoner

Backstop said:


> Finally built a set of strings for my cst, using all the info from this thread..I built my own string jig.. based on the design here... works great.
> View attachment 1938696
> the strings are working as good as my factory strings.. no rotation on the peep.. still getting the same speed as the factory strings... after seeing the TPU speed nock system talked about on this forum I went to ebay and got some!!
> View attachment 1938701
> All I can say is that THEY WORK !!! I went from
> View attachment 1938703
> to
> View attachment 1938704
> with the TPU speed nocks.. I like the look also.. Thanks to all the guys chiming in on Thu forum !! I appreciate it !


were those 2 speeds with no nocks and then with 2 nocks on each end?????? string colors look good, i like flo green alot....


----------



## redyak3

Ray knight said:


> 12 fps gain with the TPU nocks wow!! I'm getting some great speeds with them too. That is HUGE though. Awesome! Strings look great too.


Good stuff and some nice looking strings, congrats!!! How are the TPU's in comparison to string grubs? My "new to me" Reezen is the first bow I've had with the grubs, just curious.


----------



## Backstop

I used two TPU speed nocks on the top of the string next to the cam.. and two on the bottom next to the bottom cam..I just adjusted them while shooting thru the chrono.. to see what position gave me the best speed.. the hoyt factory strings have two brass nocks on top and bottom..I just tried to duplicate that with the tpu nocks..this was the first set of strings I have made.. I was shooting the same speed with the hoyt strings. Just glad they are shooting as good as those.. I am happy with them.. for the first try.


----------



## Ray knight

PapaD said:


> Ray are you extending the serving on the PSE Supra Max to make room for the TPU nocks?


No. I just use 2 in place of the 3 sets of OE nocks.


----------



## Ray knight

redyak3 said:


> Good stuff and some nice looking strings, congrats!!! How are the TPU's in comparison to string grubs? My "new to me" Reezen is the first bow I've had with the grubs, just curious.


I have not tried them on a Matthews and i'm not sure what the grubs weigh.


----------



## Methane Archery

mathews grubs roughly 28-30g each


----------



## bigbuckisamust

Big thanks to huntinsker and automan for this thread. I'm building constantly.


----------



## #40Fan

OhWell said:


> If you use thin white Spectra fishing line it goes on almost clear if served tightly. The 40lb white I used inside some loops went on clear. This way you see the string underneath.


Is this the stuff you are talking about? Of course, in 40lb.


----------



## bigbuckisamust

has anyone seen dual colored pinstripes?


----------



## OhWell

#40Fan said:


> Is this the stuff you are talking about? Of course, in 40lb.
> 
> View attachment 1941360


Yup


----------



## #40Fan

^^ Thanks.



bigbuckisamust said:


> has anyone seen dual colored pinstripes?
> View attachment 1941363


Looks cool.

Essentially it is a small two color with a large pin stripe.


----------



## #40Fan

With the Fury material, what is everyone using for the center serving?


----------



## lunghit

I have a question on making a 12" yoke for a Mathews chill. I know 20 strands of 452X or X is a good size to fit in the rings. My question is on the layout and what to do with the tag ends. Lets say I lay out my 20 strands of a solid color and have one set of tag ends or use two colors with 2 sets of tag ends. Should I just extend the tags past the middle and serve over them? Do I tag end serve any part of the yoke like I would do with a string? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Ive been using .022 Crown for the centers, serves like butter and holds like loc tite!



#40Fan said:


> With the Fury material, what is everyone using for the center serving?


----------



## Ray knight

bigbuckisamust said:


> has anyone seen dual colored pinstripes?
> View attachment 1941363


Yes! Thats easy actually. Just setup the opposite of normal pinstripes. Instead of pinstripe strands in the center, do one on bottom and one on top of the solid color. So when you go to twist it, spread the main color to the sides and split the stripes up and down. So the main color is the "pinstripe" and the "actual" pinstripes are the same as you would do a 2 color pinstripe. Make sense?


----------



## Ray knight

Hogwire Strings said:


> Ive been using .022 Crown for the centers, serves like butter and holds like loc tite!


Same here .022 crown is ideal and perfect on 28 strand Fury strings. Thats all i use anymore.


----------



## redyak3

Going to finish up the .021 Angel Majesty which works great, then switching to Crown.


----------



## .BuckHunt.

Man the more I read, the more I want my string to need replacing. Next year I will be building my own!


----------



## buddy13

.BuckHunt. said:


> Man the more I read, the more I want my string to need replacing. Next year I will be building my own!


 Ya someone wants a string go downstairs and make one all cause of all these great guys with great info..Oh ya the peep stays straight ,,pin stripes what ever..


----------



## Huntinsker

Wow! I was gone for a few days and looks like I missed some awesome strings from some new faces. Glad to see everyone is enjoying the thread and string building!


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> I have a question on making a 12" yoke for a Mathews chill. I know 20 strands of 452X or X is a good size to fit in the rings. My question is on the layout and what to do with the tag ends. Lets say I lay out my 20 strands of a solid color and have one set of tag ends or use two colors with 2 sets of tag ends. Should I just extend the tags past the middle and serve over them? Do I tag end serve any part of the yoke like I would do with a string? Thanks in advance.


I haven't built for a Monster but I'd think you could do either one. If you used 1 color, you could tie off the tag ends and then server to create the loops or if you used two colors, tie off all 4 tag ends and serve over them. You could also wrap them like you would do a tag end loop on a string but be sure to leave loooong tag ends so you can make the loop big enough. I personally like the wrapped tag end look and I also feel it makes the string a little stronger since the tag ends is wrapped so many times. It'd be almost impossible to get one that is tag end served to come undone or slip.


----------



## Backstop

automan26 said:


> I am very impressed by the high quality strings that are being cranked out here by guys who are relative string building newbies. There are several guys watching this thread, teetering on the edge of jumping into this for themselves; let's give them that nudge they need. If anyone on this thread got started either as a result of building the jig I posted earlier on another thread or as a result of this great thread Huntinsker started, show the fence-sitters your stuff. Let us see your work and tell us how long it has been since you first took the plunge. Let these guys see how quickly they can be cranking out quality threads for themselves. This thread of Huntinsker's is the place to come if you want to enhance your archery experience, so post'em up and let's get others addicted to building their own threads.
> 
> *WARNING: STRING BUILDING IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE; WE DO NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THOSE WHO START BUILDING STRINGS AND CAN'T STOP.
> *
> Automan


Yep... I started making mine after seeing this thread !!


----------



## #40Fan

Anyone want to trade some colors of Fury? I have a roll of black and a roll of white. If you don't either color, I'd be interested in what you have. Trade length for length, not the whole roll of course.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

My fury is mine and im not sharing (in an funny evil voice) haha!!



#40Fan said:


> Anyone want to trade some colors of Fury? I have a roll of black and a roll of white. If you don't either color, I'd be interested in what you have. Trade length for length, not the whole roll of course.


----------



## #40Fan

Hey, don't forget the pinky nail in the corner of the mouth.


----------



## dwagoner

lunghit said:


> I have a question on making a 12" yoke for a Mathews chill. I know 20 strands of 452X or X is a good size to fit in the rings. My question is on the layout and what to do with the tag ends. Lets say I lay out my 20 strands of a solid color and have one set of tag ends or use two colors with 2 sets of tag ends. Should I just extend the tags past the middle and serve over them? Do I tag end serve any part of the yoke like I would do with a string? Thanks in advance.


would not do tag end style on the yokes....their 12" long with 4" of serving directly in center...just serve that 4" center and you already know correct strand count, 20 as you stated....


----------



## Hogwire Strings

haha!



#40Fan said:


> Hey, don't forget the pinky nail in the corner of the mouth.


----------



## dwagoner

is that scar on his face from a Brownell string blowing up on the stretcher?????

HAHA little bit of my humor.... DONT GET ALL RILED UP..... HUNTINSKER....pls

Why is he so pale??? did his cables get all chewed up in the cable guard after only 2k shots....

LOL ROB its just a joke brother....pls dont hate me for having some fun.......

F.T.F.B's


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> is that scar on his face from a Brownell string blowing up on the stretcher?????
> 
> HAHA little bit of my humor.... DONT GET ALL RILED UP..... HUNTINSKER....pls
> 
> Why is he so pale??? did his cables get all chewed up in the cable guard after only 2k shots....
> 
> LOL ROB its just a joke brother....pls dont hate me for having some fun.......
> 
> F.T.F.B's


Haha that's pretty good. I'm pretty sure it must have been a Brownell material because none of the BCY materials would hold a tight enough bundle to make such an even scar :darkbeer:

Now.......I better get back to building a 452x set for my buddy haha. Black primary with a single (4 strands) red pinstripe. 4 strands to get the red on each yoke leg. A couple of Ray's red TPU speed nocks and it's going to look awesome on his Carbon Overdrive that he has on order.


----------



## OhWell

Are you guys finding the Fury nicer to work with than even the X? It worked out pretty much perfectly so I ran out of all my colors at the same time so I can start with a new material and not have stuff collecting dust.

Paul


----------



## Ray knight

OhWell said:


> Are you guys finding the Fury nicer to work with than even the X? It worked out pretty much perfectly so I ran out of all my colors at the same time so I can start with a new material and not have stuff collecting dust.
> 
> Paul


Fury is super nice to work with for sure! My favorite material thus far. Its been awesome. I've been building with it over 6 months and have yet to have a single issue with it.


----------



## Huntinsker

OhWell said:


> Are you guys finding the Fury nicer to work with than even the X? It worked out pretty much perfectly so I ran out of all my colors at the same time so I can start with a new material and not have stuff collecting dust.
> 
> Paul


Can't speak to the X but Fury is the cleanest material I've built with. I've only built with 452x, 8190, B55 and D97.....all BCY materials. The Fury has a great look and feel to it and there is not near as much wax squeeze out while burnishing or serving. That makes for a better looking clear serving. I've heard good things about X but all the pros I've heard for X are also found in the Fury but Fury seems to have a few additional Pros. Only down side to Fury over X is that it costs a little more. Worth it IMO, if it makes a better string.


----------



## OhWell

Those are just the answers I was hoping for. Cost has to be significantly more to push me away due to all the good things I have heard. On top of that quite a few string sets come off one spool of material. The lower wax you mentioned is really nice. The wax can get messy if the material is loaded. I had some two color 452X that was really loaded with wax.

I got set up with Brownell so I have some Fury headed in.


----------



## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> is that scar on his face from a Brownell string blowing up on the stretcher?????
> 
> HAHA little bit of my humor.... DONT GET ALL RILED UP..... HUNTINSKER....pls
> 
> Why is he so pale??? did his cables get all chewed up in the cable guard after only 2k shots....
> 
> LOL ROB its just a joke brother....pls dont hate me for having some fun.......
> 
> F.T.F.B's


----------



## Huntinsker

Ray knight said:


>


:icon_1_lol:


----------



## Huntinsker

So a little update on the Cabela's Ripcord Pro braided fishing line that I got for serving. I got a color called "Frost" (white) in .002", .006" and .012" diameter (6lb, 15lb, and 40lb tests). I just got done comparing it to the Halo that I have and wanted to share the results. 

The serving was put on a teal, 24 strand, 452x control cable that I had laying around from a frankenbow project that I've not gotten back to. The burnished cable stretched to 350lbs is .0830". Diameters are as follows.

.012 Ripcord = .0985"
.014 Halo = .1025"

.006 Ripcord = .0920"
.007 Halo = .0935"

And for fun the .002 Ripcord = .0885"

The Ripcord did not get as clear as the Halo because it has some sort of coloring to it that is supposed to give "maximum color life" and add "superior abrasion resistance". The .012 and .006 Ripcord looks a little cloudy compared to the .014 and .007 Halo but the .002 is incredibly clear. That small of diameter it had better be. The .002 is plain awesome. It feels so smooth and is so clear, I think it would be perfect for loops or for roller guards. I haven't tested any durability or what happens when it bends yet, but I'll post that later after I get it off the jig.

I'm also going to try Lil' John's halo clarifier and see if that doesn't clear it up a little.

The clarifier didn't make a dent in the cloudiness. It's just not very clear in those diameters but I think the Yellow would hold the color very well compared to yellow Halo.


----------



## redyak3

My first attempt with Fury and I like it. The dark brown is a little "waxy". Fury's texture is slicker than BCY's threads imo. I do like X, but will be using Fury if it works well on my Reezen. String is on the jig, curious to see how the .40mm Spider line works. Wish I would've doubled up on the white pin...I did 7-1-6 for a 28 strand shooting string. 
Sorry for the iphone pic, picked up the paw pretty good though:mg:


----------



## #40Fan

dwagoner said:


> F.T.F.B's


Can we derail this awesome thread for a few posts and guess what this means? He posted a while back that only him and another "friend" were the only one that knew what it meant. So, I'll throw out my guess.

F*** the fat boys. And my guess is he probably likes them.


----------



## dwagoner

Ray knight said:


>


HAHA.....thats crazy cool.....


----------



## Ray knight

#40Fan said:


> Can we derail this awesome thread for a few posts and guess what this means? He posted a while back that only him and another "friend" were the only one that knew what it meant. So, I'll throw out my guess.
> 
> F*** the fat boys. And my guess is he probably likes them.


"Feel the fury b1tches!!!" Lol.


----------



## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> Can't speak to the X but Fury is the cleanest material I've built with. I've only built with 452x, 8190, B55 and D97.....all BCY materials. The Fury has a great look and feel to it and there is not near as much wax squeeze out while burnishing or serving. That makes for a better looking clear serving. I've heard good things about X but all the pros I've heard for X are also found in the Fury but Fury seems to have a few additional Pros. Only down side to Fury over X is that it costs a little more. Worth it IMO, if it makes a better string.


wax in the materials is not isolated to brand, its kinda hit and miss unless you order LOW WAX....you can get some average and some high, and it isnt just one company that has low and other is all high content...i ordered fury in LW and i didnt get that.... it was average for sure. But with BCY you can order it and it costs few dollars more but having a materail thats not caked with wax is the only way ill use it...wax is not your friend while building...average or high, you really want the least amount possible....


----------



## Hogwire Strings

haha Chris........ 



Ray knight said:


> "Feel the fury b1tches!!!" Lol.


----------



## Ray knight

dwagoner said:


> wax in the materials is not isolated to brand, its kinda hit and miss unless you order LOW WAX....you can get some average and some high, and it isnt just one company that has low and other is all high content...i ordered fury in LW and i didnt get that.... it was average for sure. But with BCY you can order it and it costs few dollars more but having a materail thats not caked with wax is the only way ill use it...wax is not your friend while building...average or high, you really want the least amount possible....


Yeah i like my strands tacky but not waxy. I always ask for low wax.


----------



## redyak3

Better pic. Odd color scheme, but with the NFL draft coming up, I had to make a "Dawg Pound" set to start things off on a good note.
Hopefully I'll have the energy to serve it after work tomorrow...


----------



## 2X_LUNG

redyak3 said:


> Better pic. Odd color scheme, but with the NFL draft coming up, I had to make a "Dawg Pound" set to start things off on a good note.
> Hopefully I'll have the energy to serve it after work tomorrow...



Lol. I just built bownut400 a set similar. Gotta love da pound


Great looking threads btw!!!


----------



## redyak3

Too funny 2X...and Thanks!


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks great red!

So another little update on the Cabela's Ripcord Pro braided fishing line. I don't care for the .006 or .012. It'll do the job but doesn't get as clear. The .002 however is awesome. I let it dry overnight since I put some Little Jon's halo clarifier on it and gave it a bend test this morning. I almost couldn't bend the .002. It was so stiff I thought the strands would break before it bent. For that reason, I'm not sure it would be that great on loops but it would be killer for roller guards. After bending it back and forth about 20 times, it is still nice and clear. It doesn't look cloudy at all. I'd show a picture but I can't get my phone or camera to take a decent pic of it. It's hard to see on a single color string.


----------



## redyak3

Thanks Huntinsker, also for posting the serving specs on the Reezen. First time the search actually worked w/o having to pour over a boatload of posts.


----------



## redyak3

The Spider Line went on nicely. Hopefully it'll wear strong and it's priced to sell at < 10 bucks for a 300 meter spool. Serving specs didn't match up with the stock strings so I matched what's on the bow.


----------



## .BuckHunt.

2X_LUNG said:


> How's this huntinsker?


I think I just fell in love. Awesome!


----------



## #40Fan

Does anyone have any old empty bobbins that they would want to get rid of for the price of shipping?


----------



## OhWell

I will do some digging. My local shop has a string guy I am buddies with so I will check with him as well. He planned to save some for me.


----------



## #40Fan

I would appreciate it. I got my two colors of Fury in as well as a bobbin of center serving. Fishing line is on the way, so I would need three at least. I bought a cheap bobbin of material for tying in peeps, so I could always just wind that up on something else and cut my needs down to two.


----------



## dwagoner

Hogwire Strings said:


> haha Chris........


you know this.....


----------



## 2X_LUNG

.BuckHunt. said:


> I think I just fell in love. Awesome!


Yea, it's def my favorite of all time!!


----------



## OhWell

Hey Red, are those little missiles on your bench. Those would be very cool on some of the models I build.


----------



## Huntinsker

OhWell said:


> Hey Red, are those little missiles on your bench. Those would be very cool on some of the models I build.


I'm not Red but I think those are golf tees haha. Believe they are called ZeroFriction Tees. They work nice for separating strands but are lousy for golf IMO.


----------



## baker6176

Agreed Huntinsker! Very lousy for golf!


----------



## redyak3

Zero Friction, I like'em better than the wooden tees as separators, have yet to try them out on the course. As Fury goes, I'm sold, shots feel great coming off the bow. Solid peep, and no fuzz to speak off unlike the "X".


----------



## Stab 'em

I don't know how I missed this cool diy post all year! Thanks to everyone for all the great posts and knowledge.


----------



## Huntinsker

Stab 'em said:


> I don't know how I missed this cool diy post all year! Thanks to everyone for all the great posts and knowledge.


Glad you like it. We have a lot of good people posting their experiences and offering advice. Hopefully you'll find it informative.


----------



## OhWell

Huntinsker said:


> I'm not Red but I think those are golf tees haha. Believe they are called ZeroFriction Tees. They work nice for separating strands but are lousy for golf IMO.


I have not replenished my golf tees in a while (bought 10k misprints 15years ago). Those would make very cool missiles on some of my smaller model rockets, I will have to look for them. They also do look like they would be more slippery than the wooden tees for separating bundles.


----------



## Huntinsker

Just put some of TPU speed nocks on a string for a Carbon Overdrive. Have to say nice work Ray Knight! They went on nice and snug on the serving and have a great look to them. Can't wait until my buddy gets his bow so we can play with position and see how it affects the speed. If you guys have thought about getting some of these, stop thinking and start doing!


----------



## Backstop

Huntinsker said:


> Just put some of TPU speed nocks on a string for a Carbon Overdrive. Have to say nice work Ray Knight! They went on nice and snug on the serving and have a great look to them. Can't wait until my buddy gets his bow so we can play with position and see how it affects the speed. If you guys have thought about getting some of these, stop thinking and start doing!


Yeah... I totally agree with you about the TPU speed nocks... I tryed them out and gained 12 fps with them.. Ray did an awesome job with these.


----------



## redyak3

OhWell said:


> I have not replenished my golf tees in a while (bought 10k misprints 15years ago). Those would make very cool missiles on some of my smaller model rockets, I will have to look for them. They also do look like they would be more slippery than the wooden tees for separating bundles.


Got'em on eBay cheap. First saw them on one of Ray Knight's posts on pinstripes.


----------



## dwagoner

If anyone here is interested i have a 1/4# of BCY 3D serving im gonna be selling. just PM me


----------



## Ray knight

Huntinsker said:


> Just put some of TPU speed nocks on a string for a Carbon Overdrive. Have to say nice work Ray Knight! They went on nice and snug on the serving and have a great look to them. Can't wait until my buddy gets his bow so we can play with position and see how it affects the speed. If you guys have thought about getting some of these, stop thinking and start doing!


Thanks!!!


----------



## Ray knight

Plastic golf tees work much better then wood for splitting strands. No splinters and they don't dent and crush as easily. They can be pulled under tension without damaging the strands.


----------



## OhWell

Ray knight said:


> Plastic golf tees work much better then wood for splitting strands. No splinters and they don't dent and crush as easily. They can be pulled under tension without damaging the strands.


That makes perfect sense. I can also give them to guys I am playing skins with.......


----------



## buddy13

thats scallops!!!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> View attachment 1949124
> View attachment 1949124
> thats scallops!!!!!


That's a pretty cool picture! Looks like a nice day on the water and a lot of work haha.


----------



## Bigdee267

Aloha bradah, just wanted to know if you made that air stretcher, its nice. also what material did you used and where did you get it maybe I can make one for me bradah. Mahalo &#55357;&#56842;


----------



## dwagoner

got these listed in classifieds, figure id show em here too

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2247004

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2247006


----------



## ShawnRees

Ray knight said:


> Plastic golf tees work much better then wood for splitting strands. No splinters and they don't dent and crush as easily. They can be pulled under tension without damaging the strands.


I use plastic sewing machine bobbins. Work great.


----------



## automan26

Well, I tried something that almost worked, but for a failure it came out looking nice (almost). I built this jig using roll pins for posts and they worked great. The jig in the pic is under max tension and it is holding well. I had a great idea for using paint designed for automotive rims, but that is where my plans fell through. I had hoped that the stuff would be bullet proof, but it did not hold as planned. There are a few places where it is already chipping. I thought I would at least post it up as long as I had it finished anyway.

You will notice that I have the heads mounted to a short section of strut. This has been so handy over the years. If I ever want to try something new I can simply attach my heads to this short strut and practice away without wasting a lot of material. 

Automan


----------



## SamT

Coral snake colors...deadly!


----------



## SamT

redyak3 said:


> Started over and I like the .66 twist rate better, thanks Huntinsker! The BCY-X is nice, feels different doing tag ends than the 452X maybe just me. Finishes nicer imo.


Coral snake colors...DEADLY!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Built me some faktor threads


----------



## redyak3

Thanks, that's what I was going for, silent and deadly.


----------



## redyak3

Nice 2X, Fury? I'm gonna have to get more bows just so I can make more strings...LOL


----------



## 2X_LUNG

redyak3 said:


> Nice 2X, Fury? I'm gonna have to get more bows just so I can make more strings...LOL


Lol. Love your color choice there!

Yea, it's fury. It's great stuff! I just got another bow yesterday. Faktor 30! Lol


----------



## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> Lol. Love your color choice there!
> 
> Yea, it's fury. It's great stuff! I just got another bow yesterday. Faktor 30! Lol


Congrats on the Faktor! What servings you using, factory or fishing line?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Both. Liking fishing line better tho. U


----------



## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> Both. Liking fishing line better tho. U


I like the fishing line as well, haven't tried it for center serving tho, still got some Majesty.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Yea, I use diamondback for center. Love it too


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Good looking threads guys! Figured id post a few pics of some recent ones i did.


----------



## bigbuckisamust

same here. with clear serving


----------



## 2X_LUNG

bigbuckisamust said:


> View attachment 1951697
> 
> 
> same here. with clear serving


Great job!!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

Here's a silver/electric blue with dual black pins that I just built for an Agenda 6. I used the .002 Ripcord Pro fishing line to serve for the cable slide and it's awesome. Super smooth, super clear and has a great look. I tried to get a good pic of it to show how clear it is but my camera isn't good enough to get a decent pic. Either that or I'm not a good photographer haha.


----------



## bigbuckisamust

2X_LUNG said:


> Great job!!!!


 thanks dude. im about to build a string for my ovation target bow with flo green/silver primary and a flo. purple pin. let me know what you think about this idea or what you think would be a better color scheme with those three colors. I chose these colors due to my riser on my ovation being purple. I may even go with a silver string with purple pins. 

let me know


----------



## bigbuckisamust

Huntinsker said:


> Here's a silver/electric blue with dual black pins that I just built for an Agenda 6. I used the .002 Ripcord Pro fishing line to serve for the cable slide and it's awesome. Super smooth, super clear and has a great look. I tried to get a good pic of it to show how clear it is but my camera isn't good enough to get a decent pic. Either that or I'm not a good photographer haha.
> 
> View attachment 1951701


great job huntinsker. you always seem to make some amazing stuff. I hope to be as good as you one day. also where did you find the electric blue? ive been trying to find it everywhere. lancasters doesn't have it. at least on their site its not listed in the d97


----------



## Huntinsker

bigbuckisamust said:


> great job huntinsker. you always seem to make some amazing stuff. I hope to be as good as you one day. also where did you find the electric blue? ive been trying to find it everywhere. lancasters doesn't have it. at least on their site its not listed in the d97


I get all my BCY stuff from 60x. Electric Blue is now a standard color in 452x. Not sure if it's available in d97 or not.


----------



## #40Fan

Man, these strings are looking killer. Hopefully by this weekend I can get my jig put together and make a tester.


----------



## Ray knight

Some cool ones i did recently:


----------



## bigbuckisamust

Ray knight said:


> Some cool ones i did recently:



as usual you never cease to amaze me. how did you do the green and white with in the pinstripe?


----------



## Ray knight

bigbuckisamust said:


> as usual you never cease to amaze me. how did you do the green and white with in the pinstripe?


Thanks! Thats set up like a normal pinstripe and one side is flipped upside down so its both colors between. Looks like 2x the twists.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Just did my faktor 30. Whatcha think?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Up close!


----------



## bigbuckisamust

Ray knight said:


> Thanks! Thats set up like a normal pinstripe and one side is flipped upside down so its both colors between. Looks like 2x the twists.


so you did the green and whit and put black strands on the top and bottom?


----------



## Ray knight

bigbuckisamust said:


> so you did the green and whit and put black strands on the top and bottom?


No. Set up like a pinstripe. Green - black - white. Finished loops then flipped the backside over. So each side has both colors and exactly even. Very simple way to do that and looks really clean.


----------



## Ray knight

2X_LUNG said:


> Just did my faktor 30. Whatcha think?


Great looking strings but maybe not the closest match for that camo?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Ray knight said:


> Great looking strings but maybe not the closest match for that camo?


Lol. I agree. Totally doesn't match.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Check ur pm, ray


----------



## OhWell

Nice strings guys. I got three spools of Fury on Monday and now I am waiting on a large spool of end serving.


----------



## Ray knight

OhWell said:


> Nice strings guys. I got three spools of Fury on Monday and now I am waiting on a large spool of end serving.


You will have a hard time using anything else once you build with Fury! Its top quality material.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

More fury action. My new set!!


----------



## bigbuckisamust

2X_LUNG said:


> More fury action. My new set!!



that's a really nice set


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thnx! It looks so much nicer in person!!


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks good 2X. Is that 2 strands of orange or a single strand per pinstripe? 

So I installed that electric blue/silver and black pinstripe string on my buddies Agenda 6. The 6lb test, Cabela's Ripcord Pro fishing line that I used to serve the cable slide area works great! It's so small and smooth when you put it on it's perfect for that application. I may start serving all my cable slides and rollers with it from now on. It's really impressive stuff.


----------



## notz

anyone who has made this how difficult was it as a project.... and how much savings is there in making your own strings every season?


----------



## redyak3

Looking real good 2X!!! Looks like a dbl strand pin to me...


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Huntinsker said:


> Looks good 2X. Is that 2 strands of orange or a single strand per pinstripe?
> 
> So I installed that electric blue/silver and black pinstripe string on my buddies Agenda 6. The 6lb test, Cabela's Ripcord Pro fishing line that I used to serve the cable slide area works great! It's so small and smooth when you put it on it's perfect for that application. I may start serving all my cable slides and rollers with it from now on. It's really impressive stuff.


It's a single pin. That's it


----------



## OhWell

notz said:


> anyone who has made this how difficult was it as a project.... and how much savings is there in making your own strings every season?


If you replace your strings once a year it will be a while before you recover your initial investment. I shoot a LOT so I replace my strings 3-4 times per year and I make strings for friends. For many of use it is the satisfaction of making our own strings. You can figure on close to $100 for two spools of good string material and some serving material. It is probably another $200 for decent tools including a string jig and a serving tool. The pneumatic jig I built was probably $100 in materials and the crappy serving tool I bought was another $25.


----------



## OhWell

Huntinsker said:


> Looks good 2X. Is that 2 strands of orange or a single strand per pinstripe?
> 
> So I installed that electric blue/silver and black pinstripe string on my buddies Agenda 6. The 6lb test, Cabela's Ripcord Pro fishing line that I used to serve the cable slide area works great! It's so small and smooth when you put it on it's perfect for that application. I may start serving all my cable slides and rollers with it from now on. It's really impressive stuff.


Keep us posted on how the 6lb wears. I have been nervous about going that low. I have used 20lb on the inside of my loops. I tried 3lb for the insides of loops but just the tension of stretching the string broke the 3lb against the post on the stretcher. If the 6lb hold up I may drop down to 10 for the loops.

I did a flo orange and flo green set for my Alien last night and the more I work with the Fury the more I like it. The strings that cam on the bow were horrible so it was nice to get rid of them.


----------



## notz

id love to make one but i just dont see it being more than a 500 set up toy.... i dont have enopugh need to justify it other than just wantiong to try my hand at it


----------



## 2X_LUNG

There's a double pin I just made


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Bad angles. The pin looks uneven, but it's not!

My iphone pics are JUNK...


----------



## Huntinsker

notz said:


> id love to make one but i just dont see it being more than a 500 set up toy.... i dont have enopugh need to justify it other than just wantiong to try my hand at it


It's not for everybody. I and a lot of others build our own simply because we want to. I do everything I can on my own because I get satisfaction from being able to do so. If you are looking at it to save money, you're looking at it all wrong. You won't save money unless you change your strings a lot or if you have a lot of bows in the family. It will take me a long time to recoup the money invested in my material and jig but I don't care. It gives me something to do and I enjoy it.


----------



## notz

after looking at all these pictures i might commission one of yall for my strings next swap..... you guys do some amazing jobs


----------



## OhWell

dwagoner said:


> if anyone here is interested i have a 1/4# of bcy 3d serving im gonna be selling. Just pm me


no sellining in the diy forum


----------



## OhWell

I posted this over in the string and arrow forum but that particular play ground has some very unpleasant kids who laughed at this notion. I believe the idea has merit though so I figured I would share it here and see what you guys think.

In the evening when heading out of the woods and gathering your gear it can get dark quickly. I have found that bright colored strings can help locate my bow so I can set it aside and not step on it. I have not yet stepped on my bow due to my bright colored vanes but this is just one more little piece of insurance.

I need to remember I am not welcome in the string and arrow forum.


----------



## OhWell

Here is are some pics of the set I just put on my Alien. These were done with Fury and fishing line for the servings. I really like this material and I am pleased with my loops.


----------



## bbell

notz said:


> id love to make one but i just dont see it being more than a 500 set up toy.... i dont have enopugh need to justify it other than just wantiong to try my hand at it


Notz, if you have your own welder you can do it for much less than $500. I built my jig for maybe $50, I also got free Unistrut from a friend. I bought 3 spools of material and two differnt sizes of serving and I think that was around $150 shipped to my door in Canada. If you look in the classifieds people always selling string material so if you watch on their you can get a good deal on some string to practice and build with. Its easy to do for much less than $500, and its a pretty fun hobby. Building sets for my brother, a few friends and myself I dont think it would take too long for it to pay for itself and make it worth the investment.


----------



## OhWell

bbell said:


> Notz, if you have your own welder you can do it for much less than $500. I built my jig for maybe $50, I also got free Unistrut from a friend. I bought 3 spools of material and two differnt sizes of serving and I think that was around $150 shipped to my door in Canada. If you look in the classifieds people always selling string material so if you watch on their you can get a good deal on some string to practice and build with. Its easy to do for much less than $500, and its a pretty fun hobby. Building sets for my brother, a few friends and myself I dont think it would take too long for it to pay for itself and make it worth the investment.


You are so right, I hope I did not come across as discouraging anyone to get into this. What I quoted for my jig was including the Uni-strut, pneumatic cylinder and the fittings. Unlike you, who can weld, I do not weld (very well anyway) so I went with what I knew and used Oak. There are many ways to achieve the same result. You are so right, this can be done quite reasonably and for me it has been worth every penny.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Alright ray, the blue is gone. I just finished this set for the faktor 30. Looks freakin awesome!!!!!!!!


----------



## redyak3

OhWell said:


> Here is are some pics of the set I just put on my Alien. These were done with Fury and fishing line for the servings. I really like this material and I am pleased with my loops.


Looking good! I'm a "convert" to Fury and Spider Line as well...:cheers:


----------



## redyak3

Well done gentlemen!!! Some awesome sets. I especially like the pics with strings installed. Here's my "DawgPound" set. Got real lucky with the cable, didn't have to tweak to get the Reezen to spec and cam timed. Iphone pic.....


----------



## dwagoner

notz said:


> id love to make one but i just dont see it being more than a 500 set up toy.... i dont have enopugh need to justify it other than just wantiong to try my hand at it





Huntinsker said:


> It's not for everybody. I and a lot of others build our own simply because we want to. I do everything I can on my own because I get satisfaction from being able to do so. If you are looking at it to save money, you're looking at it all wrong. You won't save money unless you change your strings a lot or if you have a lot of bows in the family. It will take me a long time to recoup the money invested in my material and jig but I don't care. It gives me something to do and I enjoy it.


very true.....



OhWell said:


> If you replace your strings once a year it will be a while before you recover your initial investment. I shoot a LOT so I replace my strings 3-4 times per year


 i doubt you shoot 30-40k+ shots per year to warrant 3-4 times per year.... very few people, if any, will change strings and re tune a bow every 3 months....

i think your way over exaggerating .....


----------



## OhWell

First you don't know me at all !!!! Secondly "over exaggerating" is redundant. I shoot, on average 100 arrows a day. I no longer compete but when I did I shot a lot more than that. On many occasions I have blank bailed for hours at a time.

I am not sure why you have issues with me but I really wish you could simply leave me alone. You never seem to have anything nice to say so please stay clear of my posts. I don't think that is too much to ask.


----------



## Ray knight

2X_LUNG said:


> Alright ray, the blue is gone. I just finished this set for the faktor 30. Looks freakin awesome!!!!!!!!


Looks great Brian! Makes more sense with the camo haha. Great work as always.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Yea, it def makes more sense!! 

Here's one I just put together for a friend. Emergency thread as he cut his string installing a peep


----------



## #40Fan

Finally got my jig put together and am making a test string, but I have another question. I am going to wrap one loop end with the tag ends and the other with fishing line, to practice both ways. What do you do with the tag ends on the end you use the fishing line? Do you just loop them around the post and pull towards the middle of the string, serve over them and cut off after closing the loop?


----------



## #40Fan

#40Fan said:


> Finally got my jig put together and am making a test string, but I have another question. I am going to wrap one loop end with the tag ends and the other with fishing line, to practice both ways. What do you do with the tag ends on the end you use the fishing line? Do you just loop them around the post and pull towards the middle of the string, serve over them and cut off after closing the loop?


Yep, and burn a ball on the end to keep from being pulled back.  That is what I did and it seemed to work good. I like the looks of using the fishing line for the loops better than using the string.

Next question. Who is going to come up with a serving jig to fit these rolls of fishing line from China?


----------



## SamT

I'm just learning, but I've seen many different ways to finish the tag ends. Here are the ones I know about:
* after serving the end-loops, just cut off
* use the tag-ends to serve the loops then use whip-stitch on the ends or weave into the string
* put a whip-stitch on each end up against the ends of the served end-loops
* after serving the end-loops, weave the tag-end around and through the string 3-4 times
* after serving the end-loops, wrap the tag-end of the short loop tail around the other until you catch up with that tag-end, then wrap both a couple of times around the string and either put in a whip-stitch or weave into the string.


----------



## Purka

SamT said:


> I'm just learning, but I've seen many different ways to finish the tag ends. Here are the ones I know about:
> * after serving the end-loops, just cut off
> * use the tag-ends to serve the loops then use whip-stitch on the ends or weave into the string
> * put a whip-stitch on each end up against the ends of the served end-loops
> * after serving the end-loops, weave the tag-end around and through the string 3-4 times
> * after serving the end-loops, wrap the tag-end of the short loop tail around the other until you catch up with that tag-end, then wrap both a couple of times around the string and either put in a whip-stitch or weave into the string.


Or you can braid it or back serve it.


----------



## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> I'm just learning, but I've seen many different ways to finish the tag ends. Here are the ones I know about:
> * after serving the end-loops, just cut off
> * use the tag-ends to serve the loops then use whip-stitch on the ends or weave into the string
> * put a whip-stitch on each end up against the ends of the served end-loops
> * after serving the end-loops, weave the tag-end around and through the string 3-4 times
> * after serving the end-loops, wrap the tag-end of the short loop tail around the other until you catch up with that tag-end, then wrap both a couple of times around the string and either put in a whip-stitch or weave into the string.


Yep they all work. Just choose your flavor and get good at it.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

2x, you get the award for the most strings made for the same bow in a week time frame 



2X_LUNG said:


> Alright ray, the blue is gone. I just finished this set for the faktor 30. Looks freakin awesome!!!!!!!!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Hogwire Strings said:


> 2x, you get the award for the most strings made for the same bow in a week time frame


LOL!!!!! Blame it on Ray!!! He said it didn't match, so I built another set. Haha


----------



## Ray knight

2X_LUNG said:


> LOL!!!!! Blame it on Ray!!! He said it didn't match, so I built another set. Haha


I've done it too! Strings look great on the jig and then just don't match the bow so start over. Lol.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

I cant say i haven't done the same thing either 



Ray knight said:


> I've done it too! Strings look great on the jig and then just don't match the bow so start over. Lol.


----------



## bucks/bulls

Ray knight said:


> I've done it too! Strings look great on the jig and then just don't match the bow so start over. Lol.


I'm horrible at this aswell.. I think I've restrung my d350 7 or 8 times in the last couple months trying to find that one combo that just pops but not to much but still blends with the theme of the bow.. Thinkn I'm settling on red/black/sunset orange pinstripes though.. Hopefully lol.,


----------



## 2X_LUNG

bucks/bulls said:


> I'm horrible at this aswell.. I think I've restrung my d350 7 or 8 times in the last couple months trying to find that one combo that just pops but not to much but still blends with the theme of the bow.. Thinkn I'm settling on red/black/sunset orange pinstripes though.. Hopefully lol.,


There hogwire, he's worse!! LOL


----------



## OhWell

You guys are sad !!! I would never do anything like that.....LOL,LOL


----------



## buddy13

Been reading about the spider wire or spectra line on here been very busy,, Can someone tell me what lb test everyone is using for which thing thanks..


----------



## caspian

my table:



Code:


Test	mm	in
10	0.14	0.006
20	0.2	0.008
30	0.26	0.01
40	0.32	0.013
50	0.36	0.014
60	0.4	0.016
70	0.44	0.017
80	0.48	0.019
90	0.5	0.02
100	0.55	0.022


----------



## jrdrees

2X_LUNG said:


> There's a double pin I just made


Double pins look terrific!


----------



## OhWell

buddy13 said:


> Been reading about the spider wire or spectra line on here been very busy,, Can someone tell me what lb test everyone is using for which thing thanks..


I use 20lb or 30lb for the inside of my loops. I use 60-80lb for end servings and cable servings. I use 150-200 for center servings. 120lb can also be used for center serving but may require serving over a couple of tags to get the diam just right. I tend to use the 120lb so I can get the nock fit just right. 10lb is nice to serve over a center serving to help with nock fit. You really need to play with them to see what you like.

Caspian: that chart is really nice, thanks !


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Here is another double pin I did today!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I use 50lb for end serving. Its working great so far!


----------



## bigbuckisamust

2X_LUNG said:


> Here is another double pin I did today!


nice job. I made one the other day that was silver/black with flo. purple pinstripe. hey do you still have my number? if so give me a call I have a few questions


----------



## buddy13

43 pages !!a wealth of information


----------



## OhWell

2X_LUNG said:


> I use 50lb for end serving. Its working great so far!


I will have to try it, thinner is better for staying in the shallow cam tracks some bows have these days. High let offs and stiff materials can be a problem so I am doing what I can to help strings stay in the cams.


----------



## Hogwire Strings

These DST40 cables came out nice


----------



## OhWell

Hogwire Strings said:


> View attachment 1961813
> 
> 
> These DST40 cables came out nice


Those really pop !! Nice


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Flo Green and Flo yellow FURY with a black pin


----------



## OhWell

Hogwire Strings said:


> Flo Green and Flo yellow FURY with a black pin


I believe it is the strong contrast of the black pin that really brings it to life !! How many strands did you put in the pin?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Hogwire, those look awesome!!!


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Four strands of fury on the pin



OhWell said:


> I believe it is the strong contrast of the black pin that really brings it to life !! How many strands did you put in the pin?


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Thanks brotha!



2X_LUNG said:


> Hogwire, those look awesome!!!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Here are a few I just finished tonight.


----------



## 2X_LUNG




----------



## 2X_LUNG




----------



## Huntinsker

Lots of great looking strings guys. Glad to see some new faces popping up and some of the regulars putting out quality stuff!


----------



## ShawnRees




----------



## 2X_LUNG

This new tri color fury looks great!


----------



## bigbuckisamust

I have a black cherry Matthews ovation, and just built two sets of strings for it.







incredible hulk strings.







and this is flo.purple, black, and silver


----------



## .BuckHunt.

So I got the go ahead from the wife to build my sting jig (helped that I'll be making her Dad a set for Father's day :wink

About how much has it been costing people to build a basic jig?


----------



## #40Fan

I had scrap metal to use, so I was able to make mine for less than $50. I did spend $1300 on a new plasma cutter to cut that metal , but I needed it for work anyways.


----------



## mattheww1377

Does anyone have a good video of serving end loops, Just cannot get it right to fit my cams.. $70 worth of X and not one useable string..Guess you gotta know when to fold em..


----------



## Huntinsker

mattheww1377 said:


> Does anyone have a good video of serving end loops, Just cannot get it right to fit my cams.. $70 worth of X and not one useable string..Guess you gotta know when to fold em..


Do you mean what diameter serving to use or how large to make the loops?


----------



## mattheww1377

well i figured out the size now. just have to get more X and halo and try again i guess.. I get one thing right and something else isn't. Need to stick to shooting and let someone else make the strings..lol


----------



## Eagle 1

mattheww1377 said:


> well i figured out the size now. just have to get more X and halo and try again i guess.. I get one thing right and something else isn't. Need to stick to shooting and let someone else make the strings..lol


Don't serve the end loops, they don't move, I never have and haven't had a problem. A lot of the big name bow company's don't


----------



## dwagoner

serve them if you like...... dont let someone tell you one way is better, you have to try for yourself and find what you want to do as far as loops.....


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I don't serve mine. Personally, I like the looks of the tag end style


----------



## SamT

I have read, maybe on this thread somewhere, that some setups/cams are more aggressive than others when it comes to function and friction between the end loops and the cams, and are better off being served to help with fiber protection. 

Although I don't know which setups that may be, I just try to build mine like they came from the factory, except for maybe a little color.


----------



## Huntinsker

The only time a string/cable post on the cam could be more aggressive or cause more wear on the loops is if it has a burr or sharp edge causing the wear. That's a problem with the cam and should be fixed. There should be no wear on the loops. Now there are some cams that are more aggressive and eat end servings. That's usually due to a tight bend coupled with a narrow cam track. 

Personally I don't think it matter how you finish your loops. Just do what you like, make them look as good as you want and have fun in the process. I like the look of served loops and I like the look of a nicely done tag end method. Whatever you do, get as good at it as you can.


----------



## lunghit

With the spider wire or braided fishing line what is everyone using for the very long servings? Im talking about the serving for the cam and roller guard. I usually use 2X but want something stronger but not as expensive as Halo.


----------



## #40Fan

40lb. line is what I have used.


----------



## lunghit

lunghit said:


> With the spider wire or braided fishing line what is everyone using for the very long servings? Im talking about the serving for the cam and roller guard. I usually use 2X but want something stronger but not as expensive as Halo.


I meant to say the long idler wheel and roller guard serving on the single cam strings. Is the spider wire holding up through lots of testing?


----------



## lunghit

#40Fan said:


> 40lb. line is what I have used.


Thanks. Do you also use 40LB for end servings on those tough cam areas where separation can be trouble?


----------



## mattheww1377

finally got a string i am happy with, till i test fitted the nocks. They are loose, not falling off loose but pretty loose. I served with .018 62xs. I only have .014 white halo, .018 62xs, and .021 polygrip. should i reserve it with the polygrip? I have heard of double serving or over serving, could i do that with the halo? just have too much sunk into one string as it is and don't want to buy another spool of serving thread if i don't have to. I used 22 strands of BCY X and gt acculite nocks if that matters.


----------



## dwagoner

did you run the tag under the whole length of center serving?? why only 22 strands?? light weight bow? or thick flo colors???


----------



## bucks/bulls

mattheww1377 said:


> finally got a string i am happy with, till i test fitted the nocks. They are loose, not falling off loose but pretty loose. I served with .018 62xs. I only have .014 white halo, .018 62xs, and .021 polygrip. should i reserve it with the polygrip? I have heard of double serving or over serving, could i do that with the halo? just have too much sunk into one string as it is and don't want to buy another spool of serving thread if i don't have to. I used 22 strands of BCY X and gt acculite nocks if that matters.[/


----------



## mattheww1377

it is a 60 lb. bow. It is electric blue, don't know if that is a flo color or not. I run the tags under the loop end, I have watched most every vid. i can find and so far all ran the tags under the loop servings. the 24 strand didn't fit the elite cams very deep. counted the BCY X string on it now and it was 22 strands. It has a bigger serving i can see. Just trying to find out how to fix the string.


----------



## Huntinsker

mattheww1377 said:


> finally got a string i am happy with, till i test fitted the nocks. They are loose, not falling off loose but pretty loose. I served with .018 62xs. I only have .014 white halo, .018 62xs, and .021 polygrip. should i reserve it with the polygrip? I have heard of double serving or over serving, could i do that with the halo? just have too much sunk into one string as it is and don't want to buy another spool of serving thread if i don't have to. I used 22 strands of BCY X and gt acculite nocks if that matters.


If it were me, I'd just bite the bullet and get another spool or two of serving and reserve this string. You'd be looking at .021 or .025 depending on how you like your nocks to fit. I like 62xs for center serving. You can potentially "double serve" for a better fit but that's not ideal. The chances of the serving shifting or coming lose under your nock is increased.

On a side note, What bow are you making this for? I'm not 100% on what material Elite was using up until this year but I thought it was 452x. The 2014 bows have X on them but I don't think they would only use 22 strands. That's awfully small with the smaller diameter fiber. I'd probably use 24-26 with X. Then maybe your .018 serving will do the trick.

Edit: I just looked in a 2012 manual and Elite says it was 24 strands of 452x.


----------



## mattheww1377

I am building for my sons bow it is a diamond atomic. The Elite bows I shoot have the worst reps about cams eating cables and stuff, so the groves are the same size in the two bows so if i make a string that an elite could shoot, then the diamond should have no problem at all. I am basically building my 6 years olds strings to elite specs. Just because he is a kid shouldn't mean he can't have the best. Not trying to sound like a prick, but doing this just got me cut from the staff position i had so i am kinda upset at the moment. So that being said, and me not being the kind to just roll over, tell me what I need to know to build a set for my bow a 54lb. 09 Elite GT500 that will be no creep no rotation and any tip to build the perfect string set for that bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

You already have all the info you need in this thread. Just make sure that the final end serving diameter is .105 or less when you're finished. That may mean that you need smaller diameter serving to suit your build style or it may mean that you tweak your strand count. Your manual suggests using 24 strands of 452x for both strings and cables. That would be equivalent to 26 of X I believe. BCY recommends 24 of X on their website. The perfect string for you can only be found by trial and error on your part. Each person will build a little differently so each persons technique needs to be honed and tweaked to get to the same end result. It just takes practice.

The last time I examined a Diamond Atomic strings, I think they were using 16 strands of 452x on strings and cables. You'd have to play with serving to get the right nock fit. The arrows that come with that bow have a pretty narrow nock throat.


----------



## mattheww1377

the atomic strings are 16 thus the reason i went 22 strands of X, also the arrows he is shooting are some of my cutdown fatboys, the nocks seam loose even at 22 strands of X. before it is over my son will have a $200 set of strings..lol guess i will have plenty practice to build me a set, haha. Feel like an idiot for putting this much time and money and losses in a set of strings for a $200 kids bow. oh well..


----------



## Silverstar723

that is an amazing post and very in depth great job


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Here's my new pinstripe making jig. Bownut400 was asked after I told him what I wanted. He definitely made it just as I requested! ! This thing is sweet!!! Big thanks to bownut400


----------



## 2X_LUNG

It simply allows me to eliminate 4 tag ends like ray explained earlier. Or in another thread. Works wonderful!


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Not a bad idea! Nice work 2x!



2X_LUNG said:


> It simply allows me to eliminate 4 tag ends like ray explained earlier. Or in another thread. Works wonderful!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thanks hogwire. Just finished the set for my Faktor 34. Ill post after I install tomorrow. Turned out awesome!


----------



## lunghit

Has anyone noticed how a string can continue to shrink if not installed on the bow right away? I have noticed this with a few that I have made. They were made to exact spec and when re-measured after a long sit (over a month) they shrank about 1/16-1/8 of an inch.


----------



## bucks/bulls

lunghit said:


> Has anyone noticed how a string can continue to shrink if not installed on the bow right away? I have noticed this with a few that I have made. They were made to exact spec and when re-measured after a long sit (over a month) they shrank about 1/16-1/8 of an inch.


Never seen that..but I've seen a difference by about the same lengths you mentioned relaxing strings for a 1/2 hour to an hour compared to several hours or more.. But I don't think I've ever let a string just sit unused for a month either lol..


----------



## lunghit

bucks/bulls said:


> Never seen that..but I've seen a difference by about the same lengths you mentioned relaxing strings for a 1/2 hour to an hour compared to several hours or more.. But I don't think I've ever let a string just sit unused for a month either lol..


Yea I thought it was strange. I give them plenty of relax time between stretches and after serving so I was surprised to see them relax any further while sitting. I guess I will have to get them on the bows right away from now on lol.


----------



## Huntinsker

I haven't seen that either. The only thing it could be is just a little more relaxing done by the bundle. Sometimes they take a long while if there is a lot of serving. I've never had a string sit around that long though.


----------



## ozarkmtnhunter

Ok I built a stretcher twister jig and am about to build a string. I am new at this so I need a little help. When you lay up a 22 strand string do you do 10 strands one color and 12 of the other?


----------



## Huntinsker

ozarkmtnhunter said:


> Ok I built a stretcher twister jig and am about to build a string. I am new at this so I need a little help. When you lay up a 22 strand string do you do 10 strands one color and 12 of the other?


I do 11 of each. You'll have 1 tag end of each color at each end. If you do the tag end method to finish your loops, they'll be half one color and half the other color. You can do any combination of strand counts that gets you to 22 strands though.


----------



## ozarkmtnhunter

Ok I think I understand so when I wrap it around the posts I will have 5 strands on one side and 6 on the other of each color with the tag ends tied off at opposite ends of the jig.


----------



## #40Fan

Yes, 5 and 6, but when you start the other color, make sure you go 6 and 5. If you were facing your jig and you tied off on the right side to start and wrapped 11 times you would end on your left. Next color, start on the left and finish on the right.


----------



## Mrcnwlvrn

Tagged


----------



## Huntinsker

ozarkmtnhunter said:


> Ok I think I understand so when I wrap it around the posts I will have 5 strands on one side and 6 on the other of each color with the tag ends tied off at opposite ends of the jig.


Yep but like #40Fan said, make sure you have 5 of one and 6 of the other on the same side. I wrap one color one way and the other color the opposite way so that I'm sure to have that. I don't think it technically matters in the finished string but it makes sense in my head to keep them as even as possible. It can't hurt anyway.


----------



## lunghit

Ok I am having lots of trouble picturing something in my head. I just ordered a Chill X and am going to build a 5 piece set for it. Now the part that's getting me is the cables where they attach to the ring. On the factory cables they are not served at all in fact its just a loop without any serving near it. If I lay out a 24 strand 2 color cable I will have tags on both ends. Whats the process for making the loop and what should I do with the tag ends there? Kind of hard to explain what I am talking about. Thanks in advance.


----------



## bucks/bulls

Just keep your tags all at the same end...its only 4 tag ends..


----------



## lunghit

bucks/bulls said:


> Just keep your tags all at the same end...its only 4 tag ends..


Ok that will work but I dont like the thickness of 4 tags making a end loop. I guess I can use the same method I do pinstripes.


----------



## BowStringDepot

lunghit said:


> Ok that will work but I dont like the thickness of 4 tags making a end loop. I guess I can use the same method I do pinstripes.


Lay out all 4 tag ends at one end. Pull 2 forward and lay them on the string tag the left over 2 over them. Tie 3 half hitches with the remaining tag ends cinch them tight to the end loop. Then serve it all. 


Hutch


----------



## Huntinsker

bucks/bulls said:


> Just keep your tags all at the same end...its only 4 tag ends..





BowStringDepot said:


> Lay out all 4 tag ends at one end. Pull 2 forward and lay them on the string tag the left over 2 over them. Tie 3 half hitches with the remaining tag ends cinch them tight to the end loop. Then serve it all.
> 
> 
> Hutch


Both good options. That's the great thing about string making. There's always more than one way to do things.


----------



## OhWell

Since the larks head the cable around the ring I am really surprised they do not serve that with something. The string will dig into itself at that knot. You could serve it with 20-30lb Spectra.


----------



## lunghit

BowStringDepot said:


> Lay out all 4 tag ends at one end. Pull 2 forward and lay them on the string tag the left over 2 over them. Tie 3 half hitches with the remaining tag ends cinch them tight to the end loop. Then serve it all.
> 
> 
> Hutch


Perfect! Thanks and that is the exact way I do pins. Appreciate the tips from everyone here.


----------



## BowStringDepot

lunghit said:


> Perfect! Thanks and that is the exact way I do pins. Appreciate the tips from everyone here.


Bout time you learned something!:wink:


Hutch


----------



## lunghit

BowStringDepot said:


> Bout time you learned something!:wink:
> 
> 
> Hutch


Haha thanks Hutch. I really do appreciate all the help some of you big custom builders offer.


----------



## shooter jon

Tag


----------



## 2X_LUNG

What u guys think of my spectra braid fishing line serving in red???


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks pretty good 2X. I wish there was a colored serving material out there that didn't go semi-transparent when served so that dark colors didn't show through. Oh well, I guess it's just how it is. Nice smooth looking threads though!


----------



## ozarkmtnhunter

Ok I built my first string and it came out perfect with zero peep twist thanks to all the great info all you great string builders and jig builders have shared. 22strand 452x green and black with tag end served end loops and .014 clear halo end serving .020 diamondback center and string stop servings. I am going to attempt a set of cables for my bow next. Thank you all!


----------



## Huntinsker

ozarkmtnhunter said:


> Ok I built my first string and it came out perfect with zero peep twist thanks to all the great info all you great string builders and jig builders have shared. 22strand 452x green and black with tag end served end loops and .014 clear halo end serving .020 diamondback center and string stop servings. I am going to attempt a set of cables for my bow next. Thank you all!


Very cool!! Congrats on what sounds like a homerun on your first build :set1_applaud:


----------



## 2X_LUNG

ozarkmtnhunter said:


> Ok I built my first string and it came out perfect with zero peep twist thanks to all the great info all you great string builders and jig builders have shared. 22strand 452x green and black with tag end served end loops and .014 clear halo end serving .020 diamondback center and string stop servings. I am going to attempt a set of cables for my bow next. Thank you all!


great job!! pics?


----------



## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> What u guys think of my spectra braid fishing line serving in red???


Looks good!!!
The 60# orange Spider-line I used on my last set still shows almost zero wear after _a lot_ of arrows down range. Gotta love fishing line! 
Nice threads by all!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

redyak3 said:


> Looks good!!!
> The 60# orange Spider-line I used on my last set still shows almost zero wear after _a lot_ of arrows down range. Gotta love fishing line!
> Nice threads by all!


That's great to hear. I love the fishing line. but like hunt said, wish it wasn't so transparent


----------



## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> That's great to hear. I love the fishing line. but like hunt said, wish it wasn't so transparent


I kinda like the "ghost-like" appearance of the color change under the servings, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", I guess...


----------



## K.G.K.

I have no doubt this has probably been covered in this great thread, but I have always built my strings with 452x...is that the preferred material? Does anyone have any other recommendations to try and why? Im about to make a new set of threads and I just want to make sure I don't get caught in a rut if I should explore any other materials. Thanks,

KGK


----------



## ozarkmtnhunter

Some pics


----------



## BluMeanie

This Spectra and Spiderwire - are you guys using a particular weight? Clear or one of the "tinted" lines? I ask, as I really know NOTHING about fishing line nowadays - when I was a kid (last time I fished), it was all just cheap monofilament that usually had a green or blue tint to it. Is the "braided" line actually something like braided or twisted serving-thread? How does it lay-up compared to serving material? (how hard is it to work with).

I have seen a few pictures of strings and cables done with it so far - it looks pretty good. I am really impressed with how uniform and round you guys all get your strings (I have only ever made recurve-strings for bows I made myself - and only stretched them by hanging a weight on them).


----------



## poobear

My seperater


----------



## ozarkmtnhunter

I forgot one


----------



## Huntinsker

ozarkmtnhunter said:


> Some pics


Looks awesome! Well done.


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> I have no doubt this has probably been covered in this great thread, but I have always built my strings with 452x...is that the preferred material? Does anyone have any other recommendations to try and why? Im about to make a new set of threads and I just want to make sure I don't get caught in a rut if I should explore any other materials. Thanks,
> 
> KGK


There are a lot of us on here liking FURY by Brownell right now. It makes an awesome string and cables and is very nice to work with. I still have a lot of 452x and still build with it as well. BCY X is nice and may have a little bit less fuzz than 452x. 452x is still a good material and has been proven. I don't see it going anywhere soon. If you want to experiment, get some FURY. I think you'll like it.


----------



## ozarkmtnhunter

Would astro be a good material to make a recurve string from. I have a couple spools of it and I need to restring my old Kodiak bow fishing bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

ozarkmtnhunter said:


> Would astro be a good material to make a recurve string from. I have a couple spools of it and I need to restring my old Kodiak bow fishing bow.


If it's an older bow, pre-1990, I'd get a cheap spool of B50 or B55 Dacron. Astro is softer on the shot than some of the other materials but It's way harder than Dacron. No sense in blowing the tips off your bow even if it is a bowfishing rig.


----------



## silhouette13

excellent thread, i had made a 2 arm jig, and decided to use the outsides only(1 post on each end, and followed the instructions, i made a string for a fuse freestyle and it came out great. kudos, i can see no reason to use the 2 arm so i took out a post, my lenght did come out wonky a bit though, i used the formula for twist, could it be that the end servings to lenght ratio was such that after serving the twists in the middle were off? i needed to back a bunch off to make it correct.

the shorter the string the less twist?


----------



## Huntinsker

silhouette13 said:


> excellent thread, i had made a 2 arm jig, and decided to use the outsides only(1 post on each end, and followed the instructions, i made a string for a fuse freestyle and it came out great. kudos, i can see no reason to use the 2 arm so i took out a post, my lenght did come out wonky a bit though, i used the formula for twist, could it be that the end servings to lenght ratio was such that after serving the twists in the middle were off? i needed to back a bunch off to make it correct.
> 
> the shorter the string the less twist?


The formula is a good start point and will get you close. You may need to add a few twists or you may need to eliminate a couple. 5-8 twists in or out of a 50" string won't be noticeable so don't sweat it. Typically, the longer the string, the less accurate the formula will be. In general, a longer string will need a slightly shorter initial post setting than a shorter string. For me personally, when I build a string or cable that's 35" or under, the formula is basically spot on. For a 60" string, I need to go a little shorter than the formula tells me for the initial post setting and for a 90" string I go a little shorter still. It takes trial and error to figure out what your process will require. Everyone builds a little differently and for that reason, it'll just take some practice.

I recommend making a string that's 30", 60" and 90" long using exactly what the formula tells you to do for initial post setting and twist rate. Build as consistently as you can and then measure the end results at 100#. If you come out dead on with the 30", you know you're good for that range of string. If the 60" is 1/4" long, you can adjust the initial post setting accordingly. If the 90" string is 1/2" long, you can adjust for that. The formulas and calculators are great but they assume that the material will only stretch the same amount no matter the length of the string. Unfortunately for use, the longer the string, the more material there is so the more stretch or creep there will be. That's where a little experience under your belt comes in handy. Once you get it down, you'll be good to go.


----------



## lunghit

BowStringDepot said:


> Lay out all 4 tag ends at one end. Pull 2 forward and lay them on the string tag the left over 2 over them. Tie 3 half hitches with the remaining tag ends cinch them tight to the end loop. Then serve it all.
> 
> 
> Hutch


Ok now how would you make a pinstrip cable for the Chill? You will have 6 tags at one end. Would you use the same process but just with 2 more tags? Thanks


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Huntinsker said:


> There are a lot of us on here liking FURY by Brownell right now. It makes an awesome string and cables and is very nice to work with. I still have a lot of 452x and still build with it as well. BCY X is nice and may have a little bit less fuzz than 452x. 452x is still a good material and has been proven. I don't see it going anywhere soon. If you want to experiment, get some FURY. I think you'll like it.


fury set I just did. its neat stuff!


----------



## ozarkmtnhunter

Huntinsker said:


> If it's an older bow, pre-1990, I'd get a cheap spool of B50 or B55 Dacron. Astro is softer on the shot than some of the other materials but It's way harder than Dacron. No sense in blowing the tips off your bow even if it is a bowfishing rig.


Ok thanks!


----------



## Ohbowhunter815

BowStringDepot said:


> Lay out all 4 tag ends at one end. Pull 2 forward and lay them on the string tag the left over 2 over them. Tie 3 half hitches with the remaining tag ends cinch them tight to the end loop. Then serve it all.
> 
> 
> Hutch


Why did I not read this until after I made my double pinstripe last week. Tag end serving 4 tags is way too bulky and the final serving sinks into the bundle, will do this next time around.:wink:


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Ohbowhunter815 said:


> Why did I not read this until after I made my double pinstripe last week. Tag end serving 4 tags is way too bulky and the final serving sinks into the bundle, will do this next time around.:wink:


here's how I do it


----------



## 2X_LUNG




----------



## silhouette13

so to be clear i am reading the post correctly.....if the twist is (looking from one end) twisting to the right you would serve counterclockwise? against the twist? page two has me scratching my head a little


----------



## Huntinsker

silhouette13 said:


> so to be clear i am reading the post correctly.....if the twist is (looking from one end) twisting to the right you would serve counterclockwise? against the twist? page two has me scratching my head a little


Checkout page 10 post #227. I have links to 2 videos explaining the twist/serving head scratcher. One vid is mine and the other is b0w_benders. His video is better than mine IMO because he reduces the poundage to make it very clear which way to go. I was building a string for a buddy and wanted to stick to my normal build process as much as possible.


----------



## silhouette13

FAN-TASTIC! a clockwise twist looks like its counter clock cause it starts in the middle and twist to the ends. quick liik makes it look like the spiral is counter clockwise, so serve the same clock as you twist! got it....optivcal illusion makes you think you are serving against the twist.....


----------



## lunghit

Sorry to ask again but can a pinstripe cable be made with all 6 tag ends on one end? I usually make mine with 4 tags and tag end serve over 2 tags then tying those two tags off with a series of half hitches. But can I add another set of tags or is this asking for trouble? Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Sorry to ask again but can a pinstripe cable be made with all 6 tag ends on one end? I usually make mine with 4 tags and tag end serve over 2 tags then tying those two tags off with a series of half hitches. But can I add another set of tags or is this asking for trouble? Thanks


Sure. I don't see why not. I'd probably lay it out and tie off all the ends. Then do like Hutch said to do the 4 tag ends on one side except instead of running 2 tags down the string and wrapping over them, I'd run the 4 extra tags down the string and tag end over them with the left over 2 ends. 

I may pull tight and wrap the 4 extra ends 3-4 times just to keep them tight while tying off and then wrap over them with the last 2. There are a lot of ways to finish them off. You just have to find what you like and something that doesn't get too bulky.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Sure. I don't see why not. I'd probably lay it out and tie off all the ends. Then do like Hutch said to do the 4 tag ends on one side except instead of running 2 tags down the string and wrapping over them, I'd run the 4 extra tags down the string and tag end over them with the left over 2 ends.
> 
> I may pull tight and wrap the 4 extra ends 3-4 times just to keep them tight while tying off and then wrap over them with the last 2. There are a lot of ways to finish them off. You just have to find what you like and something that doesn't get too bulky.


Thanks I will give it a shot! I want to have this 5 piece set ready for install the day my Chill gets here.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Sure. I don't see why not. I'd probably lay it out and tie off all the ends. Then do like Hutch said to do the 4 tag ends on one side except instead of running 2 tags down the string and wrapping over them, I'd run the 4 extra tags down the string and tag end over them with the left over 2 ends.
> 
> I may pull tight and wrap the 4 extra ends 3-4 times just to keep them tight while tying off and then wrap over them with the last 2. There are a lot of ways to finish them off. You just have to find what you like and something that doesn't get too bulky.


Well that came out perfect and they look awesome! That made the regular pinstripe process look real easy lol. I used sunset orange and black with a silver stripe in bcy X. I will post pics when the bow arrives!


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Well that came out perfect and they look awesome! That made the regular pinstripe process look real easy lol. I used sunset orange and black with a silver stripe in bcy X. I will post pics when the bow arrives!


Sweet! Looking forward to pics.


----------



## Bownut400

2X awesome pin stripe


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Bownut400 said:


> 2X awesome pin stripe


thanks for building my jigs too! love them!


----------



## bigbuckisamust

Flo. Orarnge/ Electric Blue and black pinstripe

it's so nice to have better material to build with.

thanks deezlin


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Great looking thread


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## bigbuckisamust

2X_LUNG said:


> Great looking thread


Thanks. trying to keep up with you. lol


----------



## bigbuckisamust

Customer order







the AT&T 







the XBOX

yeah buddy


----------



## .BuckHunt.

Getting ready to layout my first string. Got a 92" string I'm going to build. Using brownel fury.

I know it will depend on how I build it, but does it sound like this will get me close?

92 11/16" initial post set and 61-62 twists?


----------



## bigbuckisamust

.BuckHunt. said:


> Getting ready to layout my first string. Got a 92" string I'm going to build. Using brownel fury.
> 
> I know it will depend on how I build it, but does it sound like this will get me close?
> 
> 92 11/16" initial post set and 61-62 twists?


from what I know I know so far. yes! if you did the math right. give or take a few twists


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## automan26

When I laid out my first string using Fury, I got a surprise. I set up for a 57" string, using a formula that has worked for me in the past and discovered that my finished length was 1/4" short. I removed a few twists and all was good again. When I went to build my 44" cables I added 3/16" to my desired finished length and all came out well. My guess, and this is only a guess because I have never built a 92" string, is that you may come up 1/2" to 5/8" sort of your target due to the fact that Fury twists up differently than other materials.

The next time I built that 57" string I entered 57 1/4" into the formula for my targeted finished length and all worked out perfectly. On a 92" string you will have lots of twists to play around with, so you do have adjustment room, but I would set the posts a bit longer than is indicated by the formula. 

Let me know how things work out for you. There is a friend of mine knows a guy on the other side of the state that wants me to build him a Mathews string using Fury and I want to make sure that I get it right the first time.

Automan


----------



## .BuckHunt.

automan26 said:


> When I laid out my first string using Fury, I got a surprise. I set up for a 57" string, using a formula that has worked for me in the past and discovered that my finished length was 1/4" short. I removed a few twists and all was good again. When I went to build my 44" cables I added 3/16" to my desired finished length and all came out well. My guess, and this is only a guess because I have never built a 92" string, is that you may come up 1/2" to 5/8" sort of your target due to the fact that Fury twists up differently than other materials.
> 
> The next time I built that 57" string I entered 57 1/4" into the formula for my targeted finished length and all worked out perfectly. On a 92" string you will have lots of twists to play around with, so you do have adjustment room, but I would set the posts a bit longer than is indicated by the formula.
> 
> Let me know how things work out for you. There is a friend of mine knows a guy on the other side of the state that wants me to build him a Mathews string using Fury and I want to make sure that I get it right the first time.
> 
> Automan



Good to know. Will try a bit longer initial setting.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

For fury I go length x 1.012.


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## .BuckHunt.

2X_LUNG said:


> For fury I go length x 1.012.


So for my 92" I should set about 93 1/8" and same twists?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Yep. Probably need about 60-65 twists. Be real close


----------



## .BuckHunt.

So I laid it out at 93 1/8, did my end loops. Did 60 twists and now have it stretching at 300-350. When I measure now I'm right over 93". Will it shrink down to 92" after relaxing? Thinking I'll be adding more twists, but I really don't how much they shrink


----------



## redyak3

.BuckHunt. said:


> So I laid it out at 93 1/8, did my end loops. Did 60 twists and now have it stretching at 300-350. When I measure now I'm right over 93". Will it shrink down to 92" after relaxing? Thinking I'll be adding more twists, but I really don't how much they shrink


Pretty sure you measure at 100# after the relaxing period, that's what I do anyway.


----------



## .BuckHunt.

redyak3 said:


> Pretty sure you measure at 100# after the relaxing period, that's what I do anyway.


Yea I know, just wondering if it will shrink that much?


----------



## redyak3

.BuckHunt. said:


> Yea I know, just wondering if it will shrink that much?


Should be pretty close, my last set was for my Reezen 6.5, finished at 90-3/4". Set my posts at 91-7/8ths w/ 63 twists and it came out in spec and timed. 
Good luck and have fun!
of course...YMMV


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Ill guess you will add 60-658 more twists after relaxing overnight. You'll be super close


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## 2X_LUNG

Lol. Oops 6-8 twists


----------



## automan26

2X_LUNG said:


> Lol. Oops 6-8 twists


The formula I have used for years calls for 69 twists on a 92" string, so if you have to add 6-8 twists you should be in the golden range. The exact number of twists means nothing so if you need to add some more twists, a 92" string can handle whatever you might need.

Automan


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## cparchery

When I'm doing a pinstriped string how do I split the colors when I run a piece of string between the colors to separate them after twisting the string?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

cparchery said:


> When I'm doing a pinstriped string how do I split the colors when I run a piece of string between the colors to separate them after twisting the string?


I put a scrap piece of material around each pin prior to twisting


----------



## Ohbowhunter815

2X_LUNG said:


> For fury I go length x 1.012.


What was your formula for 452x? I use length x 1.008 with 452x and that has worked from 35" out to 92" for me. I was thinking of trying some Fury and hoping you use the same formula for 452x as I do and that your Fury formula will work for my process. Thanks


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Ohbowhunter815 said:


> What was your formula for 452x? I use length x 1.008 with 452x and that has worked from 35" out to 92" for me. I was thinking of trying some Fury and hoping you use the same formula for 452x as I do and that your Fury formula will work for my process. Thanks


I can't remember what I used for 452x. I know for sure it was around 1.006 to 1.008. I used it from 35" to in the 90" ranges as well. It's a solid formula and works great


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Ohbowhunter815 said:


> What was your formula for 452x? I use length x 1.008 with 452x and that has worked from 35" out to 92" for me. I was thinking of trying some Fury and hoping you use the same formula for 452x as I do and that your Fury formula will work for my process. Thanks


It sounds like our build process is about identical. When you try fury, do 1.011 for your long single cam strings. Use 1.012 for your shorter strings, such as hybrid cams, and for all cables. It's worked out awesome for me thus far.


----------



## Ohbowhunter815

2X_LUNG said:


> It sounds like our build process is about identical. When you try fury, do 1.011 for your long single cam strings. Use 1.012 for your shorter strings, such as hybrid cams, and for all cables. It's worked out awesome for me thus far.


I will give it a try at those specs when I get some Fury. Thanks


----------



## .BuckHunt.

Well got mine done. Cable came out perfect length. String was long, even after relaxing overnight. Made it work tho, just took almost 30 extra twists putting me at 90.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Ohbowhunter815 said:


> What was your formula for 452x? I use length x 1.008 with 452x and that has worked from 35" out to 92" for me. I was thinking of trying some Fury and hoping you use the same formula for 452x as I do and that your Fury formula will work for my process. Thanks


eek. That's alottttttt. I'd say next single cam string you try, go with 1.008 or 1.009. goes to show everyone's builds are different; )

great job though. pics?????


----------



## .BuckHunt.

2X_LUNG said:


> eek. That's alottttttt. I'd say next single cam string you try, go with 1.008 or 1.009. goes to show everyone's builds are different; )
> 
> great job though. pics?????


Yea, it was for an older bow so I'm not overly worried about it. I think one thing I will do is when I'm doing my tag ends really crank them before doing my loops to get any extra slack possible out. Being my first one I didn't know how tight I could go, but I think I could do more.
Another thing, when you guys do a two color string, are both tags of one color on the same end?


----------



## #40Fan

Tag ends on the same end will be determined by the number of strands you want to use. 28 will put them on the same end. 26 will be opposite. 24 will be same.


----------



## wagtail

Thanks for putting this together. Fantastic information, and deeply appreciated. Also posting so I can find it again when I am ready


----------



## SamT

Have any of you made specialized tools to help you with your string building? Thought I'd post a picture of my "finger saver" made from a nail, and a link of me using it.








https://app.box.com/s/cmy68izr6b43wa1i5gvb

Let's see some of yours!


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Nice setup Sam.


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## SamT

Thanks. Inspired by this thread


----------



## Huntinsker

Nice SamT. Most of my tools that I've made are already in the thread somewhere haha. I need to come up with a leather glove that with a leather glove that only will cover where the material wants to cut into my hands while pulling tag ends tight. Right now I use scotch tape and wrap it around my fingers so it doesn't slice me up.


----------



## BowStringDepot

Huntinsker said:


> Nice SamT. Most of my tools that I've made are already in the thread somewhere haha. I need to come up with a leather glove that with a leather glove that only will cover where the material wants to cut into my hands while pulling tag ends tight. Right now I use scotch tape and wrap it around my fingers so it doesn't slice me up.


Have you looked at something like this http://www.drugsupplystore.com/servlet/the-7743/Pedifix-Dexterity-Fabric-Covered/Detail

Hutch


----------



## Huntinsker

BowStringDepot said:


> Have you looked at something like this http://www.drugsupplystore.com/servlet/the-7743/Pedifix-Dexterity-Fabric-Covered/Detail
> 
> Hutch


I looked one time at something like that but it seemed like it would get cut through pretty quick. I'm thinking of just taking an old pair of leather gloves and cutting the pinky and index fingers off. Doesn't take anything real fancy.


----------



## #40Fan

I wrap black tape around my first joint (closet to nail) on my index. Second joint on middle, ring and pinky fingers.

Now that I built an air stretcher, I am going to start serving all of the loops while out in the middle of the jig instead of at the ends, using a serving tool(s).


----------



## BowStringDepot

Huntinsker said:


> I looked one time at something like that but it seemed like it would get cut through pretty quick. I'm thinking of just taking an old pair of leather gloves and cutting the pinky and index fingers off. Doesn't take anything real fancy.


They make a finger cover in rubber and its great I just can't remember where I saw it. 

Hutch


----------



## AzizaVFR

I machined this set of layout posts for a friend who is so much better than I at making string sets. He asked for something a little more stout than the setup from BCY. 



The plates were made from 12"x3"x0.5" cold rolled steel, with the posts cut on the lathe from 1.125" CRS bar. The distance between the posts is 10" and 4". The extra mounting plate is the clamping plate, allowing the main plate to pivot without loosing position within the unistrut/superstrut. For the piece within the channel, it is 1.375"x 0.625"x9.65". I machined a set of grooves in it, providing more surface area to grip the rail.




I also added a couple of locator pins to lock the plate perpendicular to parallel with the rail. I still need to add a set of tag end holders to each post.


----------



## Huntinsker

Wow that looks great AzizaVFR! I wish I had your tools haha.


----------



## .BuckHunt.

More and hopefully better pictures to follow


----------



## automan26

Very, very nice my friend!!!! There is nothing sweeter than to open your bow case and see a set of your own threads staring back at you begging to be taken out and shot. :wink:

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks great BuckHunt! Looks like a perfect twist rate between the string and cable.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Buckshot, those look awesome


----------



## .BuckHunt.

Not bad for my first loops









The cable on the left shows the two bundles didn't really want to become one. I think this is from dewaxing too much prior to twisting? Or Not?






Peep tied in. Stays straight the whole way back! Success! Haven't put a lot of shots through it as it's a lefty and I can't shot lefty worth a crap. So hopefully it stays.






On a side note, is anyone familiar with a Ben Pearson Quad 440? Does this look like its routed and terminated correctly? 




I ask because where the other end of the string is there isn't a grove, it just rests on the flatish part of the cam.


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks good to me BuckHunt. I don't see how else the string could be routed around that cam. Kind of a weird way of Pearson to do it. On a side note, looks like your threads are twisted the opposite way I do mine. Nothing wrong with it but I hope you also served the opposite direction as I would since we twisted different directions. Your tag ends look awesome though! The bundle on the left that didn't get as round as the others may just be a part where you didn't burnish quite enough. After I am done serving and do the final measurement, I give the strings a little rub down with some string wax and burnish them smooth. It holds the strands together better while they are bent before installing on a bow and well, string wax is good for strings haha. You may try that next time and see if it doesn't help a little. Nice looking set though. I'd be happy with it as my first that's for sure.


----------



## .BuckHunt.

Yea that's what I figured. Specs are right so it must be right just seems weird to have it just sitting there.
I figured for a left hand bow to do the twists opposite  Not really, but when I realized they were backwards it was too late so I just did both the same. Next set I know better what I'm doing. Yup, did the serving right, just have to go so the twists get tighter. That was the easiest for me to understand and I never had a problem.
Okay thanks I will try that!
Definitely can't wait to try another set now that I have some idea of how it's done.

Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together and helping out whenever you can!


----------



## Ohbowhunter815

So I just got my Fury sample from Brownell and am excited to build with it. I got orange and white for my sample colors which will be awesome to put on my Switchback considering I'm a Bengals fan. Now would anyone mind selling me enough Fury in black to do a double pin to make the set look really good. Just need 92" x 2 plus a couple feet for tags for the string and 36" x 2 plus a couple feet for tags for the cable. Looks like about 26' of a single strand of black would do it. Shoot me a PM if you have any extra. Thanks Vance


----------



## automan26

2X_LUNG said:


> For fury I go length x 1.012.


When I lay out for 452x I use .75 as the multiplier for determining my finished length/twist ratio. Using the formula you listed for Fury, what is your multiplier for determing the correct number of twists?

Automan


----------



## 2X_LUNG

automan26 said:


> When I lay out for 452x I use .75 as the multiplier for determining my finished length/twist ratio. Using the formula you listed for Fury, what is your multiplier for determing the correct number of twists?
> 
> Automan


Divide by 1.5 of string length. I usually have to add a few after relaxing period. It works awesome


----------



## automan26

2X_LUNG said:


> Divide by 1.5 of string length. I usually have to add a few after relaxing period. It works awesome


ThanX. I will be building a set of Fury threads for my district superintendent and I really need to get it right.

Automan


----------



## SamT

The difference in the two formulas for the number of twists in a 100" string is just 8 twists. Doesn't seem like that much of a difference. ?? 67 vs 75.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Nope. Its all preference. I like the formula I posted.


----------



## redyak3

There's some nice looking threads being made! I use the multiplier that (IIRC) Hunt posted, finished length x .66. Works for me.


----------



## SamT

Agree, it's just a preference. I use the /1.5 (or x .67 which ever way you like to do your math) too. Seems pretty common. The big thing is learning your multiplier for setting post lenghts based on how you go about building your strings. Took me a little while to get that pretty close, and if you change one little procedure it may not work out right. On a 36" string, my added length for post settings is only about 1/8". Using this to compare it to building a 100" string would be an adder of about 3/8". Most formulas I've seen have you adding nearly twice that much. I guess that's why it took me a little while to get that right because everything kept coming out really long.


----------



## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> Agree, it's just a preference. I use the /1.5 (or x .67 which ever way you like to do your math) too. Seems pretty common. The big thing is learning your multiplier for setting post lenghts based on how you go about building your strings. Took me a little while to get that pretty close, and if you change one little procedure it may not work out right. On a 36" string, my added length for post settings is only about 1/8". Using this to compare it to building a 100" string would be an adder of about 3/8". Most formulas I've seen have you adding nearly twice that much. I guess that's why it took me a little while to get that right because everything kept coming out really long.


Yep, the formulas assume a linear increase in creep while stretching the material. The longer the string, the more material so the more it's going to stretch meaning you need to actually go shorter on the post setting. I think that's one of the hardest things for a new builder to get figured out. The amount is different for everyone so it just takes experimentation and practice.


----------



## automan26

Here's something strange I have never run into before and it had me spinning for awhile. I built a Fury cable for my Sentinel and decided to use clear serving where the cable runs through the rollers. I used a serving material which was recommended by a pro builder with the stipulation that I not reveal his trade secret, so I won't but when finished the serving was 100% transparent as glass. My twists under the serving were identical to my twists ahead and behind the serving and I was confident that I had just built the perfect cable. I served under 300# tension and when I ease up on the tension I like to do it in stages so the strands can relax more evenly. Just before hitting the sack last night I finally had the string totally relaxed and ready to make a final measurement. That's when I discovered a problem. Under tension the cable had about 5 twists under the clear serving, but when relaxed there were only two or three. I determined that I had served in the wrong direction so at noon I reserved the cable, making sure that I was correct this time. Again, when I relaxed the cable I lost a bunch of twists under the clear serving. Just for giggles I tensioned it back to 300# and my twists all came back. I decided that when installed on the bow there would be enough tension to restore the twists so I removed it from the jig and got another shock. All the twists vanished and the string color bundles ran straight along the axis of the cable. Under tension, they all came back.

The material I was using really grabs the string in a death grip and I determined that it was holding so tightly that the serving was not reacting like the string when relaxing so I tried a different approach. I grabbed some of the clear Chinese fishing line and served it just as I had the other material and when I relaxed the string, my twists stayed put.

Maybe, just maybe, I had a senior moment twice and served the cable in the wrong direction twice, but I really believe that I had it correct both times. Anyway I think I know what was going on, but I can't explain it so anyone would understand. (I'm really not sure I totally understand it myself.)

Automan


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## Huntinsker

That's pretty weird Automan. I can't imagine that you served it incorrectly twice and I've never seen a string lose twists when not under tension only to gain them back while under tension. If you want some super clear serving, get some white .002 diameter fishing line. I used the Cabela's Ripcord Pro in 6lb test and it's as clear as you describe whatever you were using. It feels super smooth on the string and is clear as glass. The next string I make, I'm going to use it if nothing else so I can take a pic and show you guys how clear it gets.


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## bigbuckisamust

automan26 said:


> Here's something strange I have never run into before and it had me spinning for awhile. I built a Fury cable for my Sentinel and decided to use clear serving where the cable runs through the rollers. I used a serving material which was recommended by a pro builder with the stipulation that I not reveal his trade secret, so I won't but when finished the serving was 100% transparent as glass. My twists under the serving were identical to my twists ahead and behind the serving and I was confident that I had just built the perfect cable. I served under 300# tension and when I ease up on the tension I like to do it in stages so the strands can relax more evenly. Just before hitting the sack last night I finally had the string totally relaxed and ready to make a final measurement. That's when I discovered a problem. Under tension the cable had about 5 twists under the clear serving, but when relaxed there were only two or three. I determined that I had served in the wrong direction so at noon I reserved the cable, making sure that I was correct this time. Again, when I relaxed the cable I lost a bunch of twists under the clear serving. Just for giggles I tensioned it back to 300# and my twists all came back. I decided that when installed on the bow there would be enough tension to restore the twists so I removed it from the jig and got another shock. All the twists vanished and the string color bundles ran straight along the axis of the cable. Under tension, they all came back.
> 
> The material I was using really grabs the string in a death grip and I determined that it was holding so tightly that the serving was not reacting like the string when relaxing so I tried a different approach. I grabbed some of the clear Chinese fishing line and served it just as I had the other material and when I relaxed the string, my twists stayed put.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, I had a senior moment twice and served the cable in the wrong direction twice, but I really believe that I had it correct both times. Anyway I think I know what was going on, but I can't explain it so anyone would understand. (I'm really not sure I totally understand it myself.)
> 
> Automan


what pound test of the Chinese stuff were you using. and second, what pound tension did u serve it under? meaning the serving jig. because someone on here recommended the forty pound test of the Chinese stuff. when I serve it super tight it always wants to twist the string up and at the beginning of my serving it is not transparent. if u or anyone else can help please let me know


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## Huntinsker

bigbuckisamust said:


> what pound test of the Chinese stuff were you using. and second, what pound tension did u serve it under? meaning the serving jig. because someone on here recommended the forty pound test of the Chinese stuff. when I serve it super tight it always wants to twist the string up and at the beginning of my serving it is not transparent. if u or anyone else can help please let me know


I've never used the Chinese stuff but I'd look for something around .012-.016" diameter. The smaller the diameter the clearer it will turn out if all other things are equal. I know on the Cabela's stuff that I've used, 40lb test is .012 diameter and 65lb test is .016 diameter.


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## Rex D

marked..


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## SamT

This is some Cabelas RipCord .006 (20lb I think). Semi-clear.


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## shank'em

Rexzzl z D said:


> marked..[/Q zUOTEmz z z z z z


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> This is some Cabelas RipCord .006 (20lb I think). Semi-clear.
> 
> View attachment 1995819


Yeah I wasn't that impressed with how clear the Ripcord got. The packaging says that there is a coating on it to maintain the color of the strand so it's foggier than halo or 3D when you get to the same diameter. The 6lb test, .002" diameter, gets clear as glass though. I've used it on some bows with problem cable slides or it would be amazing through a roller or Prime or Quest Iglides. 

I like your color combo by the way :thumbs_up


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## cubsfan

This thread is so awesome. I started in January with a jig exactly like the OP laid out. I've modified it a lot to fit my needs. I use all the sets on my bows and they are performing as good or better than any company I have used in the past. Here are a few pics of the changes I made from the original.


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## SamT

Thanks Huntinsker. Like everyone else, the photos don't do justice to the actual colors. I've seen some incredibly awesome color combos and workmanship on this thread. 

Nice setup Cub.


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## Huntinsker

cubsfan said:


> This thread is so awesome. I started in January with a jig exactly like the OP laid out. I've modified it a lot to fit my needs. I use all the sets on my bows and they are performing as good or better than any company I have used in the past. Here are a few pics of the changes I made from the original.


WOW!! That looks awesome! I bet that's rock solid.


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## cubsfan

Huntinsker said:


> WOW!! That looks awesome! I bet that's rock solid.


It is amazing!! ROCK solid. I'm lucky to have a friend that is a machinist that comes up with ideas to make all the processes better. Thanks so much for getting me started on this, Huntinsker!!! I would never be where I am now making strings without this thread.


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## Huntinsker

cubsfan said:


> It is amazing!! ROCK solid. I'm lucky to have a friend that is a machinist that comes up with ideas to make all the processes better. Thanks so much for getting me started on this, Huntinsker!!! I would never be where I am now making strings without this thread.


No problem. That's what Automan26 and I had in mind when we started this thing. Just wanted to give the guys on the edge of building the nudge they needed.


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## knight stalker

My question is how do you know what size serving to use for center, end loops etc.


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## Huntinsker

knight stalker said:


> My question is how do you know what size serving to use for center, end loops etc.


You need to determine what diameter you want as the final served diameter. I like to put a mic on the factory strings and see what they take for an end serving diameter and try to at least match that if not end up a little smaller. For center serving, you can serve a section and try your nock. After you make a string, measure what you've served and record it. If you make your sting the same way, it should end up pretty much the same each time.

I personally like .014 halo or 3D end serving for end serving and .021 62xs for center serving. This works well with 22 strands of 452x on the string and 24 strands of 452x cables. It also works well with 26-28 strands of Fury for the string and 32 strands for the cable. It's also good for 24 strands of 8190 on the string and 26 on cables.


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## knight stalker

Ok thanks for the reply I'm looking at probably using bcy x


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## Huntinsker

With X, you can still use .021 for center and .014-.016 for end serving. BCY recommends 24 strands of X and that should work out well with those sizes.


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## knight stalker

Thanks for the help


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## Jaco80

I have big problems with this tag-end method. Every time after stretching process with 300 lbs tension (before twisting) I ended with many strands being totally loose, no matter how tight I serve loops after layup stage... What is my mistake? Too much tension? Layup I think its ok, strands before stretching has equal tension. Sorry for my english, its not my native language.


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## cubsfan

Jaco80 said:


> I have big problems with this tag-end method. Every time after stretching process with 300 lbs tension (before twisting) I ended with many strands being totally loose, no matter how tight I serve loops after layup stage... What is my mistake? Layup I think its ok, strands before stretching has equal tension. Sorry for my english, its not my native language.


I lay up my strands, tie ends off, twist, then stretch. I was stretching prior to tying and ran into your problem. It seems to be working great for me. Finished lengths are good and no rotation or stretching.


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## Huntinsker

Jaco80 said:


> I have big problems with this tag-end method. Every time after stretching process with 300 lbs tension (before twisting) I ended with many strands being totally loose, no matter how tight I serve loops after layup stage... What is my mistake? Too much tension? Layup I think its ok, strands before stretching has equal tension. Sorry for my english, its not my native language.


You may be stretching too long before twisting or you're taking the tension down too low before twisting. I wish I could go back to the first couple pages and edit my process because it's evolved and changed a lot since I first posted it. 

I only tension to 300 and stretch to even strand tension for 2-4 minutes. Then I relax the tension so that I can insert my separators and then twist. I don't like to twist with less than 175-200lbs (that's a guess based on how much my spring is compressed) of tension. 

I also think that it depends a little on the colors that you use and how "loose" they will seem. I was messaging back and forth with another poster in this thread and we noticed that certain colors may seem to sag more after the initial stretch, before twisting. I've seen it more with fluorescent colors but haven't had a problem with it when twisting under enough tension.


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## Jaco80

THX. Now I'm using red and black BCY 452X (2 spools) Strands being loose after 30 minutes of stretching. IMO serving can't hold strands while stretching. Amount of "loose" is unacceptable. Now I will try serve tight as possible, and like you said stretch only 2 minutes. Before I made few sets with 2-post method but after serving loops with jig, string twists while serving. IMO that caused some loose strands too. But finished sets has zero stretching and peep rotation. 

One more question: is twisting can cause different tension of strands? Lately I untwisted one of my finished strings (which was after dry shot) and about half of strands was loose. But string looks very good and has zero stretching and peep rotation. Or dry fire caused this?


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## Jaco80

Another try... After serving, loosen spring a little to check strand tension and few of them came down when others are still in place. And this is before any stretching, after stretching I'm sure it will look much worse :sad:


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## Huntinsker

Jaco80 said:


> Another try... After serving, loosen spring a little to check strand tension and few of them came down when others are still in place. And this is before any stretching, after stretching I'm sure it will look much worse :sad:
> 
> View attachment 1997854
> 
> View attachment 1997855


This doesn't have anything to do with the loose strands but what type of "string" are you making there? Is that a string, buss cable or control cable? I'm just wondering why you have 4 tag ends at one end on a 2 color thread.

One thing that I do to try and eliminate loose strands is to pull as much of the slack out of the bundle as possible. I just cross the tag ends and then pull like crazy. Then wrap several times to lock it in place and then go to the other end and do the same. You can see the slack disappear as you pull. If you do this, you need to block the sprung end of the jig so that you don't compress the spring when pulling the bundles tight.


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## cparchery

I am having problems with my serving separating around the sharper bends around the cams. Why is this happening and how do I fix it?


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## Huntinsker

cparchery said:


> I am having problems with my serving separating around the sharper bends around the cams. Why is this happening and how do I fix it?


Some cams are just serving eaters. One thing you can do is find a serving type that handles harder cams. Halo is pretty well known as a good hard or problem cam serving. You want to make sure you have removed as much excess wax in the area that goes around the sharp points so that the serving can't easily slip on the wax and make sure that you're serving tight enough to lock it in place. It's tough to keep it from happening on some cams. Sooner or later, no matter what you do, some cams will force the serving apart.


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## Squirrelmaster

Wow, what an amazing and inspiring thread! Thank you for starting and moderating this Huntinsker (and Automan). I've only just ordered parts for this so far and some string, but it'll be an enjoyable project and adventure I'm sure. I was on the fence about getting Fury after reading the results from this thread, but then 60Xcustomstrings just announced a weekly sale of 20% off all their 1/8 and 1/4lb BCY X spools which I couldn't say no to, lol. If anything, having the string and parts from McMaster laying around will make me want to finish it faster.


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## Purka

Jaco80 said:


> Another try... After serving, loosen spring a little to check strand tension and few of them came down when others are still in place. And this is before any stretching, after stretching I'm sure it will look much worse :sad:
> 
> View attachment 1997854
> 
> View attachment 1997855


Is your jig sturdy enough ? it just doesn't seem normal to have loose strands after doing the tag end serving.


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## Jaco80

Sturdy? I think yes. My 2 post module has a little flex, but when I try to make string with tag end method i don't use it. After laying up and before wraping loops, tension on strands looks good. IMO problem with tension began when I'm starting wraping loops - maybe I pull ends too much or too low causing uneven tension. 

Is it possible to get absolutly even tension? What difference in tension between strands is acceptable? New photo: strands without any tension hanging freely, is that ok?








One more question: on two post method - how many lbs should I set my serving jig to serve loop? And how much tension should be on string jig?


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## silhouette13

fantastic thread, i copy and pasted to a word doc so i now have a manual at my jig i am following step by step page by page. thanks....making whips for my wife's Moneymaker right now!


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## Huntinsker

Squirrelmaster said:


> Wow, what an amazing and inspiring thread! Thank you for starting and moderating this Huntinsker (and Automan). I've only just ordered parts for this so far and some string, but it'll be an enjoyable project and adventure I'm sure. I was on the fence about getting Fury after reading the results from this thread, but then 60Xcustomstrings just announced a weekly sale of 20% off all their 1/8 and 1/4lb BCY X spools which I couldn't say no to, lol. If anything, having the string and parts from McMaster laying around will make me want to finish it faster.


Good luck and have fun with it. Remember to post here with questions and pics of your successes.


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## Huntinsker

silhouette13 said:


> fantastic thread, i copy and pasted to a word doc so i now have a manual at my jig i am following step by step page by page. thanks....making whips for my wife's Moneymaker right now!


Good deal. Glad you're finding it useful. Make sure you post pics. We all like to see sweet looking strings.


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## Huntinsker

So I mentioned that I'd try and get a picture of the .002", 6lb test Cabela's Ripcord Pro fishing line when it's served on a string. I'm making a black/flo orange with a single silver pinstripe to donate to a young man and thought I'd use it to show you this serving and how clear it gets. I left the tag ends on so you could more easily see where it starts and stops. This is without any clarifier or other treatment. This stuff would work awesome through a cable slide that likes to chew at threads.


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## SamT

Looks great. Very clear. Can see good definition through the serving. <thumbs_up>


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## Huntinsker

Jaco80 said:


> Sturdy? I think yes. My 2 post module has a little flex, but when I try to make string with tag end method i don't use it. After laying up and before wraping loops, tension on strands looks good. IMO problem with tension began when I'm starting wraping loops - maybe I pull ends too much or too low causing uneven tension.
> 
> Is it possible to get absolutly even tension? What difference in tension between strands is acceptable? New photo: strands without any tension hanging freely, is that ok?
> View attachment 1998376
> 
> 
> One more question: on two post method - how many lbs should I set my serving jig to serve loop? And how much tension should be on string jig?


Before wrapping my tag ends to finish the loops, I pull hard to get as much slack I can out of the bundles. I pull hard on one end and wrap several wraps, then go to the other end and do the same. You can see the slack come out of the bundles when you do this. 

When serving your string, I've seen guys use anywhere from 6-12lbs of tension. I think a lot of it depends on your serving jig. Before I got my Beiter Winder, 6-7lbs of tension was a lot because the serving didn't come off the jig near as smoothly. With the Beiter winder, I'm able to serve with more tension and the serving still comes off smoother. 

I also think it depends on if you have string clamps or if you have something like a specialty serving machine that spins the string while the serving jig is stationary. Either of those two things will allow you to serve with more tension without causing your string to rotate too much. If you're using the "flag" method, you can't serve as tightly because your flag will rotate too much and cause uneven twist between your served sections and unserved sections. That will cause peep rotation and a long shoot in period.

After a while, you'll just get a feel for how tight you have your jig by how the string reacts when serving. I don't measure my tension at all anymore. I just get it as tight as I can without it rotating the string too much. How much rotation is too much is also something that takes practice to figure out.


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## SamT

Jaco80 said:


> One more question: on two post method - how many lbs should I set my serving jig to serve loop? And how much tension should be on string jig?





Huntinsker said:


> When serving your string, I've seen guys use anywhere from 6-12lbs of tension...


6-12lbs of tension on his _serving tool_, but...

I took his last question as asking how much tension (spring) should he have on his string/jig while serving. (300lbs?)


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> 6-12lbs of tension on his _serving tool_, but...
> 
> I took his last question as asking how much tension (spring) should he have on his string/jig while serving. (300lbs?)


Ahh, yep you're right. I forgot to answer the last question. I serve with #350 on the string.


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## Jaco80

Thank you guys. Generally I think my serving process is okay, I have problems only with uneven tension on strands after serving or securing tag ends... But every string I was made has zero peep rotation and so far no stretch. But that loose strands annoying me, but maybe I'm overreacting? Seems to me impossible to achieve perfect strand tension after layup then serving etc. Serving end loop causes strands rotation, rotation causes some strand imbalance... When I lower tension on serving jig so between posts string rotate less - I'm afraid serving can't hold tension while stretching... Or maybe after twisting whole string there is so much friction between strands on string so this won't be a problem?

Huntskiner 300 lbs when serving end loop between 2 post? Isn't too much?


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## Huntinsker

Jaco80 said:


> Thank you guys. Generally I think my serving process is okay, I have problems only with uneven tension on strands after serving or securing tag ends... But every string I was made has zero peep rotation and so far no stretch. But that loose strands annoying me, but maybe I'm overreacting? Seems to me impossible to achieve perfect strand tension after layup then serving etc. Serving end loop causes strands rotation, rotation causes some strand imbalance... When I lower tension on serving jig so between posts string rotate less - I'm afraid serving can't hold tension while stretching... Or maybe after twisting whole string there is so much friction between strands on string so this won't be a problem?
> 
> Huntskiner 300 lbs when serving end loop between 2 post? Isn't too much?


I don't think 300lbs is too much when doing end and center serving. I've taken strings up to 450lbs just to see what they could handle. They can hold much more than that but I didn't care to go higher. The reason I like to use 300-350lbs to tension the string is that when you stretch the string, the bundle will shrink. Then when you wrap the serving on the string, it will squeeze the bundle a little further. Then when you remove the tension, the string bundle will expand and push against the serving making it even tighter. That helps to lock it in place. 

If you're talking about how much tension to put on the bundle before wrapping the loops, I don't increase the weight at all. I just pull the bundle tight with the tag ends before wrapping the tag ends to finish the loop.


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## silhouette13

having some issues with lenght and the formula, i have followed it and tension as per direction, but my cables with the twist formula comes out short my 1/8-1/4. then to make it spec i have to take out almost all the twists, i am going to make one and add a little lenght then see. has any one else had this issue? and fix?


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## Huntinsker

silhouette13 said:


> having some issues with lenght and the formula, i have followed it and tension as per direction, but my cables with the twist formula comes out short my 1/8-1/4. then to make it spec i have to take out almost all the twists, i am going to make one and add a little lenght then see. has any one else had this issue? and fix?


We had a pretty good discussion on the formula and how accurate it is for some several pages back. To sum it up, the formula is an approximation that will get you close. You'll need to experiment a little to determine how you need to manipulate it to better fit your needs. I suggest making a 30, 60 and 90 inch string and see how they come out using exactly what the formula says to. 

For most, the formula is pretty good for a 30-40" thread while the formula runs a little long on the 60 and 90" string. Personally, I add a little length to the initial post settings based on how long my string needs to be and the experience I have with my build process. I typically go about 1/8" shorter than the formula tells me on a 60" thread and about 1/4" shorter for a 90" thread. Those are approximations of course but you get the idea.

Basically, you'll need to either change the formula to better fit your build style or do like me and just change the initial post setting based on what you've experienced while building other strings.


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## SamT

Basically, everyone has to find the "right formula" for their method of making strings. Some have to add a little (like you) and some have to subtract a little (like me) to the base formula. Every step of the process and which processes you use determines this. And, as you begin making strings and discover something new or better, it can have an effect on your post formula too.

After you've practiced the different steps, ie the layouts, end loops, end closures, and servings for a while and finally get your method down pat, I would suggest that you make a "formula string" and set your posts to a set number, record this number and keep up with measurements along the way, and see what the final length ends up and use this to help determine the post settings for other lengths.

The "formula string" could be the average length between your string and cable lengths round up to the nearest whole inch, for example.


PS. I must be a slow typist as Huntinsker has posted a great answer a head of me.


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## silhouette13

cheers mate,
i did add some length the cables came out spot on, and the string was about 1/2 longer then needed so may have to make another, it has a bunch of extra twists. but if it is stable and the peep doesnt go wonky i may leave it for now.








i am using my 2 post jig and my standard BCY stretcher, i have the arms locked in the cross the beam position, i use the other post to ties off, and can stretch the cable as i am laying out the next. thw wife loves the whips. it seems stable. my only issue is i have a scale in line between the string and no tightening end of the stretcher , it only goes to 220lb, so i am using that for a longer stretch time, adding back to 220 until the movement stops. any one think this is inadequate, i do plan on getting another scale soon.


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## silhouette13

my inline scale


----------



## b0w_bender

Jaco80 said:


> Thank you guys. Generally I think my serving process is okay, I have problems only with uneven tension on strands after serving or securing tag ends... But every string I was made has zero peep rotation and so far no stretch. But that loose strands annoying me, but maybe I'm overreacting? Seems to me impossible to achieve perfect strand tension after layup then serving etc. Serving end loop causes strands rotation, rotation causes some strand imbalance... When I lower tension on serving jig so between posts string rotate less - I'm afraid serving can't hold tension while stretching... Or maybe after twisting whole string there is so much friction between strands on string so this won't be a problem?


Take a look at my video on jig flex and how it affects strand tension.


----------



## wolf44

working on this yet now. solid whit cables with blue end servings and a rwb pinstripe string


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## Huntinsker

b0w_bender said:


> Take a look at my video on jig flex and how it affects strand tension.


Great video. Just shows how important it is to have a solid jig to build with.


----------



## Arrowflikr

There are three strand and six strand braided dyneema lines, the six strand is better, rounder and smoother. I can find no difference from Halo.


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## 2X_LUNG

Arrowflikr said:


> There are three strand and six strand braided dyneema lines, the six strand is better, rounder and smoother. I can find no difference from Halo.


What brand six strand?


----------



## SamT

This comes from Cabelas website:

Cabela's RipCord™ Pro Braided Fishing Line
This line is made of Spectra with 4-6 carrier construction.

I don't have any knowledge how Spiderwire is made.


----------



## Johntstring

Great thread guys! This question may have been asked already but I haven't had time to read the whole thread. Has anyone experimented with homemade serving clairfier? I know deelzin makes some, but I do like diy  would be interested in anyone's thoughts. Thank you


----------



## Huntinsker

Johntstring said:


> Great thread guys! This question may have been asked already but I haven't had time to read the whole thread. Has anyone experimented with homemade serving clairfier? I know deelzin makes some, but I do like diy  would be interested in anyone's thoughts. Thank you


I bought some of Deezlin's clarifier when I started and as soon as I smelled it, it reminded me of a cheap gun cleaning solvent that I got in a little kit from Walmart years ago. The only reason I haven't tried that is that I'm afraid it may damage the string if I'm wrong haha. I'll have to get some stuff some day and use it on some old or test strings.


----------



## Squirrelmaster

Huntinsker said:


> So I had a PM about the bearing that I put on my jig asking what bearing I used and where I put it on the jig. I thought I'd post a pic in case anyone else was wondering the same things.
> The bearing I used is this from McMaster Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#5909k32/=r6d6fb You need the cage assembly and 2 washers to fit that you can find at the link that says "Related Product".
> 
> I put the bearing and washers between the steel bar and the 5/8" washer that was already on the jig.
> View attachment 1912427
> 
> 
> This takes the full load of the jig while under tension and reduces the friction and binding while twisting and getting up to tension. It makes the jig run really smoothly without needing a lot of lubricant on the threads.


What kind of bolt are you using as a string post in this pic? I want one with a stopper on the end like this so I don't have to worry about my string flying early. Thanks


----------



## automan26

*Now that you have built the perfect string, it's time for a great D-loop*

If you are building a lot of strings and installing a lot of D-loops, I may have found a supplier for loop material that puts out a product that might be terrific at a fraction of what you would pay for BCY #24. BCY #24 is a 2mm, stiff braid polyester which Lancaster sells for over $30 for a 100 foot spool. If you go to http://www.fixmyblinds.com/Replacement-Lift-Cord-String-s/43.htm you will find the exact same material for $18.95 for 50 feet and $31.95 for 300 feet. If you poke around the site you will find a place where they will send you 3 free samples for your inspection. I sent for the samples and a couple of them were long enough for making a loop. I stuck one on my bow at noon and shot a few shots and it appears to be good stuff. They have several colors ranging from white to dark brown, and some of them can be purchased in black. The samples are free so you have nothing to lose. When I compared it to my BCY #24 it looked like the same exact material and the ends melted nicely. I am debating purchasing either the 2mm or the 1.8mm material. I asked for and received free samples of both.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Squirrelmaster said:


> What kind of bolt are you using as a string post in this pic? I want one with a stopper on the end like this so I don't have to worry about my string flying early. Thanks


I went to BoltDepot.com and found a chrome plated, grade 8, smooth socket cap bolt. http://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_cap_(smooth)_Chrome_plated_grade_8_steel_1_4-20.aspx?Selected=9354

I got the 2 1/4" but could have gotten a way with the 2" just as easily. It was about the only stainless or chrome plated grade 8 smooth head cap screw I could find.


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> If you are building a lot of strings and installing a lot of D-loops, I may have found a supplier for loop material that puts out a product that might be terrific at a fraction of what you would pay for BCY #24. BCY #24 is a 2mm, stiff braid polyester which Lancaster sells for over $30 for a 100 foot spool. If you go to http://www.fixmyblinds.com/Replacement-Lift-Cord-String-s/43.htm you will find the exact same material for $18.95 for 50 feet and $31.95 for 300 feet. If you poke around the site you will find a place where they will send you 3 free samples for your inspection. I sent for the samples and a couple of them were long enough for making a loop. I stuck one on my bow at noon and shot a few shots and it appears to be good stuff. They have several colors ranging from white to dark brown, and some of them can be purchased in black. The samples are free so you have nothing to lose. When I compared it to my BCY #24 it looked like the same exact material and the ends melted nicely. I am debating purchasing either the 2mm or the 1.8mm material. I asked for and received free samples of both.
> 
> Automan


Nice find!


----------



## Squirrelmaster

Thanks Huntinsker, I ordered the 2" as per your advice. I'll post pics when I get a chance to get it all together


----------



## Fiferguy

Ok, wow. I read through this entire thread, start to finish, and I have to say that this is a WEALTH of information. I'd never even thought about building my own strings, and now I have to try it. Thanks for that one... :icon_1_lol:

But, on reading this, I had a question about the initial winding of the string material. I've done a few strings on a four post jig before, but they were single color, served loop, recurve strings for cheap beginner bows that we were using for a beginner's archery class.

For the two color (and more) strings, are the initial loops counter wound? Let me see if I can explain a little better what I'm seeing. For this, let's call the spring end "Post A" and the other end "Post B". Strand 1, lets say green, is wound from Post B to Post A in a clockwise direction (if looking at it from above), and when the correct half of strands is completed, it's tied off/secured at Post A. Strand 2, let's say purple, is wound from Post A to Post B in a counterclockwise direction, and tied off at Post B.

So Strand 1 starts at B and ends at A, and strand 2 starts at A and ends at B, and you have a tag end of both colors at each end?

Is that right, or am I completely off course? I admit, I've never made a two color bowstring, so I'm a little lost. Also apologies if this has been answered before, but I don't remember seeing it.

The rest of the thread is terrific, and very easy to follow. I'm really looking forward to getting my jig built and start playing with this style of string building.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> Ok, wow. I read through this entire thread, start to finish, and I have to say that this is a WEALTH of information. I'd never even thought about building my own strings, and now I have to try it. Thanks for that one... :icon_1_lol:
> 
> But, on reading this, I had a question about the initial winding of the string material. I've done a few strings on a four post jig before, but they were single color, served loop, recurve strings for cheap beginner bows that we were using for a beginner's archery class.
> 
> For the two color (and more) strings, are the initial loops counter wound? Let me see if I can explain a little better what I'm seeing. For this, let's call the spring end "Post A" and the other end "Post B". Strand 1, lets say green, is wound from Post B to Post A in a clockwise direction (if looking at it from above), and when the correct half of strands is completed, it's tied off/secured at Post A. Strand 2, let's say purple, is wound from Post A to Post B in a counterclockwise direction, and tied off at Post B.
> 
> So Strand 1 starts at B and ends at A, and strand 2 starts at A and ends at B, and you have a tag end of both colors at each end?
> 
> Is that right, or am I completely off course? I admit, I've never made a two color bowstring, so I'm a little lost. Also apologies if this has been answered before, but I don't remember seeing it.
> 
> The rest of the thread is terrific, and very easy to follow. I'm really looking forward to getting my jig built and start playing with this style of string building.


I'm glad you enjoy the thread. We have a nice little community that's sprung up here with some really great guys sharing their experiences and knowledge. 

To answer your question about the "counter wound" bundles, I'd say yes and no haha. I personally lay one bundle out clockwise and the other counter clockwise just because in my head there may be some benefit however, I've made strings by laying it all out clockwise and still had a perfectly stable string in the end. Depending on the number of strands you want to use in your string, you may have 1 tag end of each color at each end or you may have both tags of one color at one end and both of the other color at the other end. 

For example, when I make a 22 strand string of 452x, I will have 1 tag end of each color at each end because there are 11 strands of each color. If I'm making a 28 strand string with Fury, I'll have both tag ends of both colors at their own post because there is 14 strands of each.


----------



## Fiferguy

I think I just need to get fibers in my hand and a jig on the table... :cheers:


----------



## automan26

Fiferguy said:


> I think I just need to get fibers in my hand and a jig on the table... :cheers:


You are right. There are lots of things that seem confusing until you start building and once underway, many of the things that initially appeared to be problems vanish away. Make your first string about 18" long. Practice on something that isn't going to waste a lot of material in the learning process. You will probably make an error or two on your first shot out of the gate, but that's where real learning happens. You will never reach the place where the occasional screw-up doesn't happen, at least I never got there, so don't get discouraged, just keep stringing along.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> I think I just need to get fibers in my hand and a jig on the table... :cheers:





automan26 said:


> You are right. There are lots of things that seem confusing until you start building and once underway, many of the things that initially appeared to be problems vanish away. Make your first string about 18" long. Practice on something that isn't going to waste a lot of material in the learning process. You will probably make an error or two on your first shot out of the gate, but that's where real learning happens. You will never reach the place where the occasional screw-up doesn't happen, at least I never got there, so don't get discouraged, just keep stringing along.
> 
> Automan


Automan has hit the nail on the head. It seems complicated when on paper or even in pictures. When you actually do it, it's not so bad. He's also correct that you'll never not have an occasional mishap. That's one reason I started to make my own. You never know when a string builder may have an off day and it just happens to be on your set of threads. Most builders on here wouldn't send a "whoopsie" out the door but I've personally seen some from a couple of high volume suppliers. The most recent was on a customers PSE Stinger 3g. His bow came in 8lbs under weight and the measurements were way off. I had to put 15 additional twists in the buss cable to bring the weight up to 70lbs. Not only did it look bad but I'm sure he's going to have a lot of problems with it holding a tune.


----------



## automan26

Two rolls of 2mm polyester cord. Both are priced around $35.00. One has 300' of cord; the other has 100'. I got my large roll of the dark brown material in the mail today and immediately fashioned a d-loop, installed it and went to the range. I had been having a _terrible_ problem with the orange BCY #24 loops twisting on the string. The new cord from fixmyblinds.com locked down and stayed put very nicely. I was able to melt great balls on the ends. My preliminary assessment is that the brown material is going to work great. I did the math and found that each loop from the new material costs me 4 cents each. I will keep you informed as to how it holds up, but I would be surprised if it doesn't work perfectly. The brown material is just slightly more limber than the orange BCT #24 and it is much easier to work with. Being a bit less stiff it seems have the ability to cinch down and grap the string serving more tightly.

If you are building strings and installing lots of loops, this material may be just what you need.

Automan


----------



## Jaliv92

Tagged


----------



## lunghit

I really have to make a check list to remind me of things while building. I always forget to add the piece of string for the peep location till after its twisted and stretching. Not a bad thing but it's much easier to add before twisting lol. And then the other day I made a nice pinstripe cable for my Chill X and forgot to burnish the individual colors before twisting.


----------



## HoosierArcher85

Got a question guys about making a split buss cable with a two (2) post jig. I have found this: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1356672

Is this the best or the only way to do it with a two post setup?

Any help would be appreciated


----------



## Huntinsker

HoosierArcher85 said:


> Got a question guys about making a split buss cable with a two (2) post jig. I have found this: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1356672
> 
> Is this the best or the only way to do it with a two post setup?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated


NP did a good job of showing different ways to make a split buss cable in that thread. We show, IMO, the easiest and most repeatable way to build them on a 2 post jig in this thread. You basically lay out your first half and finish the yoke loop. Then lay out the second half and finish that yoke loop and then close the common loop on the bottom. Then it's just like building any other string/cable.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I close the two strand loop after the first half of yoke. Then close second yoke. All works awesome tho


----------



## HoosierArcher85

Thanks guys....when you putting up some videos ha?


----------



## Purka

I use a three post setup for doing the buss, that way the pin stripe can go up each leg of the yoke.


----------



## Huntinsker

Purka said:


> I use a three post setup for doing the buss, that way the pin stripe can go up each leg of the yoke.


You can still have the stripe go up each yoke leg. You just put half the number of strands on one bundle and finish the loop and half the pinstripe strands on the other and finish that loop. 
Looks like this when you're done. Sorry for the crappy pic.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I personally don't like the pin up each yoke. Mainly bc the twist rate will be different on each yoke end. Look at hunts pic for an example. After yoke tuning it'll look outta whack. Guess im too picky. Idk. Ha


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> I personally don't like the pin up each yoke. Mainly bc the twist rate will be different on each yoke end. Look at hunts pic for an example. After yoke tuning it'll look outta whack. Guess im too picky. Idk. Ha


I agree. That was one of my first pinstripes and since it was for a buddy, I thought I'd try it. When the twist rate was the same on the jig, they looked really cool but on the bow, like you, I didn't like it as much. My buddy loved it and thought it was one of the coolest parts. To each their own I guess.


----------



## b0w_bender

Split cable:
layup the string with half as many threads as you need finish both ends and then fold it in half and finish the bent end as the cam end. Then server the yoke valley serving. That's the easy way if you aren't doing multi-colored strings. 

If you want to do dual color then follow the thread by NP.


----------



## Huntinsker

b0w_bender said:


> Split cable:
> layup the string with half as many threads as you need finish both ends and then fold it in half and finish the bent end as the cam end. Then server the yoke valley serving. That's the easy way if you aren't doing multi-colored strings.
> 
> If you want to do dual color then follow the thread by NP.


Interesting way to do it. If you're going to try it that way make sure you set the posts to twice as long as the finished cable needs to be.


----------



## .BuckHunt.

Huntinsker said:


> Interesting way to do it. If you're going to try it that way make sure you set the posts to twice as long as the finished cable needs to be.


----------



## Purka

Huntinsker said:


> You can still have the stripe go up each yoke leg. You just put half the number of strands on one bundle and finish the loop and half the pinstripe strands on the other and finish that loop.
> Looks like this when you're done. Sorry for the crappy pic.
> 
> View attachment 2011649


Sorry I meant a single thread pin or should that be two single thread pins.
I actually don't mind the look of the two different twist rate on the yoke legs.


----------



## dwagoner

b0w_bender said:


> Split cable:
> layup the string with half as many threads as you need finish both ends and then fold it in half and finish the bent end as the cam end. Then server the yoke valley serving. That's the easy way if you aren't doing multi-colored strings.
> 
> If you want to do dual color then follow the thread by NP.





Huntinsker said:


> Interesting way to do it. If you're going to try it that way make sure you set the posts to twice as long as the finished cable needs to be.


ive actually tried this, and its a little bit to figure the formula for me..... your taking a 35" buss and now making a 70" half strand.... longer and stretch a tad more... was a PITA for me.....seems like it would be straight forword but i never liked it... from layup to folding in half, the whole time it was a PITA.... 

i stick to using my 2 post with tags....


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> ive actually tried this, and its a little bit to figure the formula for me..... your taking a 35" buss and now making a 70" half strand.... longer and stretch a tad more... was a PITA for me.....seems like it would be straight forword but i never liked it... from layup to folding in half, the whole time it was a PITA....
> 
> i stick to using my 2 post with tags....


I kind of figured it wouldn't be as straight forward as it seemed it may be. It's always neat to hear new ways and ideas though.


----------



## Huntinsker

WOW!!!! We went over 100,000 views on this thread. Thanks to everyone who's shared their jigs, strings, questions, ideas and experiences on here. We've amassed more info than I ever thought we would.


----------



## JJSREEZEN

Absolutely!!! X2!!!!!


----------



## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> WOW!!!! We went over 100,000 views on this thread. Thanks to everyone who's shared their jigs, strings, questions, ideas and experiences on here. We've amassed more info than I ever thought we would.


The amazing thing is that it was reached in just a little over one year. That alone has to be some kind of a record.

Automan


----------



## decal

Does anyone have an approximate total costs for all the items? I tried searching through the thread but could not find it.


----------



## automan26

I can't speak for the other designs, but parts for my jig run around $60.00.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

So I just got done twisting up my most complicated, pain in the butt string I've ever made. 3 colors, 3 pinstripes and 1 sore back! Laid out 6 teal, 7 flo purple, 6 electric blue and kept space between them. Then clamped off black and put it between the teal and flo purple, then crossed up to between the flo purple and electric blue and then crossed over to above the electric blue. I used the single black and flo purple tag ends at each end and finished the loops just like I had done a dual pinstripe string and covered the flo purple and black with the teal and electric blue at each end. 

Separating the strands was a trial and error process and I twisted and untwisted it 3 times until I got it close. Then it was chasing strands and the dang thing still has some areas where the pins aren't perfect. They seemed to have moved a little when brought back up to tension. Anyway here's the pic of the finished product while still on the stretcher. Only took me 2.5 hours of messing with it to get to this point. Probably the only one I'll ever make.









This is going on my 14 year old sister-in-laws first bow. The cables will be a dual pinstripe with flo purple and teal and the other flo purple and electric blue.


----------



## SamT

A good looking and quality string for your efforts. <thumbs_up>


----------



## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> A good looking and quality string for your efforts. <thumbs_up>


I went back and reduced the weight and chased the last of the pinstripes down that weren't in their proper place. It looks great for the full length now. I just couldn't leave it knowing it wasn't perfect.


----------



## SamT

definition,

Perfect: An untreatable, highly addictive, and contagious disease that affects both body and soul; sometimes the last verbal communication before something breaks; not good enough.

LOL 

Glad you got it "perfect".


----------



## automan26

This morning I discovered that someone resurrected an old string jig thread I started in 2012. A had to smile as I scanned down through the names on each post and noticed that several of those names are showing up on this thread, showing off some great strings. I am a teacher by trade and I have always lived by the idea that a teacher knows when he is doing his job when former students come back years later and know enough to teach the teacher. One name in post #40 of that old thread really struck me. It was some guy calling himself Huntinster who said he was interested in getting into string building. (I wonder what ever came of him? LOL!!!)

Today Huntinster has become what I consider to be a master string builder and I have learned more from this thread than he did from anything I posted in that older thread. Two years ago he was thinking that string building might be fun and now the bug has bitten him good and he has caught the fever.

If you are a noob looking at this thread, wondering if you could ever start building your own threads someday, find that old thread about the starter string jig, read post #40, then come over here and see the results. You CAN do it--This thread is proof.

Automan


----------



## SamT

X2, Automan. Huntinsker and this thread has helped me tremendously along with all the others who have shared their knowledge.


----------



## Huntinsker

Thanks Automan!! Your thread was the inspiration for sure. I'm just glad that we've been able to help so many people get started in this very rewarding aspect of archery. Nothing better than shooting a perfectly stable string that you made with your own two hands.


----------



## Huntinsker

Just got done serving up my hunting threads this year. Went with 28 strands of Fury on the String and 32 strands of Fury on the cable. Black/Hunter Green with Silver pins. Matches my camo bow really well. 









Hope everyone has their hunting threads built and is having a good time getting geared up for a successful season!


----------



## grimmsterdad

Huntinsker said:


> Just got done serving up my hunting threads this year. Went with 28 strands of Fury on the String and 32 strands of Fury on the cable. Black/Hunter Green with Silver pins. Matches my camo bow really well.
> 
> View attachment 2027941
> 
> 
> Hope everyone has their hunting threads built and is having a good time getting geared up for a successful season!


Very nice!


----------



## SamT

X2. I like the colors.


----------



## Jimmy Sticks

Just got my jig done and can't wait to make my first set of threads. Can anyone give me the layout for the double pinstripe. I'm using red and black with a double pinstripe in yellow. Gonna do 22 strands for the string and 24 for bus and yoke. At least I'm gonna try.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Jimmy Sticks said:


> View attachment 2028122
> 
> Just got my jig done and can't wait to make my first set of threads. Can anyone give me the layout for the double pinstripe. I'm using red and black with a double pinstripe in yellow. Gonna do 22 strands for the string and 24 for bus and yoke. At least I'm gonna try.


Awesome job! Go 9 red, 4 yellow, 9 black on string. 

Cables go 10-4-10


----------



## Jimmy Sticks

Sweet thanks


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## shinobi3

Here is one in progress just need to serve it. Thanks automan and huntinsker for thread and all tw helpful info


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## 2X_LUNG

Looking good!


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## shinobi3

Thanks


----------



## stampy

awesome thread!


----------



## silhouette13

a while back i mentioned the twist formula was not working for me, so i added about a third of an inch to my start lenghts. has worked pretty good, i then realized that my post on my home made jig were a bit long and they were giving a little, that would explain my short cables and strings. i changed the post to some about half the height and they are solid.

i just made a set and it caused me to have to add about 25 twists to the formula to get to spce. my question is are there any issues with having extra twists? what side effects can be expected. i think the formula will be spot on with the new posts.

thanks for the insights.

HD


----------



## Huntinsker

Okay so I had a PM about the 3 pinstripe 3 color string and how I laid it out and separated it. Here are some pics that I took and I'll try to explain what they heck is going on in them.

I laid out the string like this.....6 teal, 7 flo purple, 6 electric blue and kept space between them. Then clamped off black and put it between the teal and flo purple, then crossed up to between the flo purple and electric blue and then crossed over to above the electric blue. I used the single black and flo purple tag ends at each end and finished the loops just like I had done a dual pinstripe string and covered the flo purple and black with the teal and electric blue at each end. 









So in this pic, you see the blue, flo purple and teal and how I laid them out with a little space between them. The black pin that's in the pic should be coming around the other side of the post so that it's opposite the flo purple tag end on this side. You'll see that better in the next pic. I changed the pinstripe to the other side but didn't take another pic.








Here you can see the black and flo purple tag end on the same side before I corrected it. They need to be on the opposite side so that you can use them like they were the same color pinstripe. You could either wrap them with the primary color that has 2 tag ends at that end, in this case it is electric blue, or you can wrap them a couple times and then go over them with the primary color like Ray Knight does his. That's how I do mine now because it gives a cleaner look.








Here's the other end where you can see the black above the blue and above the teal. Remember the middle pinstripe is at the other end. 

Here's the mess of how I separated the strands. This only got me close. I still had to chase the pinstripes with a scrap piece of material and move them where I wanted to get it perfect. This separation got me to have 1 stand of the pin between two colors and then the other 2 strands of the pin were bunched together between 2 colors but there was no pin laid between the last 2 colors. 
















This was mostly trial and error at this point. I don't know if it's possible to get it to lay out nicely when twisting by separating it a different way. By that point, 3 twists and untwists, I had had enough and just chased them out.


----------



## Huntinsker

Here's how you would have to separate them to get them to twist nicely. I just didn't have the brain power to see this or to do it after the second hour of messing with it. Imagine that you're looking inside the bundle like you're looking into a tunnel.









1. This is laid out and then separated.

2. This is what they will do when you twist.

3. This is what it would look like when twisted.


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## Huntinsker

Here's how you'd have to separate it. I think.........


----------



## Purka

I set mine up like this on the jig.


----------



## Huntinsker

Purka said:


> I set mine up like this on the jig.


Ahh that's a good idea. Looks like it should work out well.


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks I think I see what your saying


----------



## Huntinsker

silhouette13 said:


> a while back i mentioned the twist formula was not working for me, so i added about a third of an inch to my start lenghts. has worked pretty good, i then realized that my post on my home made jig were a bit long and they were giving a little, that would explain my short cables and strings. i changed the post to some about half the height and they are solid.
> 
> i just made a set and it caused me to have to add about 25 twists to the formula to get to spce. my question is are there any issues with having extra twists? what side effects can be expected. i think the formula will be spot on with the new posts.
> 
> thanks for the insights.
> 
> HD


Having a high twist rate doesn't really hurt anything unless it starts to bunch up on itself. You'll probably be fine. You'll find out if it's going to work after some time shooting it.


----------



## shinobi3

Here is some end loops I finished up on a cable


----------



## Purka

Looks good, but I'd probably pull the tag end through further.


----------



## shinobi3

ok thanks for the tip


----------



## crippleminded

Tagged this one.


----------



## Suock

Mark for info. I built a jig already and can't wait to build a set for my FX. 
Thanks for the info.


----------



## Themassarcher

tag


----------



## shinobi3

Finishing up this one for my buddy


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> Finishing up this one for my buddy
> View attachment 2040361


Looking good. Serving looks nice and clear.


----------



## skullerud

The pinstriping triggered me enough to make my have a go at it. 
Work out pretty nice, using goolf pegs to separate. 

Added my own little trick, pulling the pinstripe threads to the outside, putting a couple of small nails under the pinstripe threads, resting on the color threads. That way there was no need for scrap thread to provide pull the pinstripe out from the bundle when twisting. 
It laid itself nicely on top where it should be


----------



## automan26

I have found that small cotter pins work great for chasing the colors when pinstriping.

Automan


----------



## Purka

I tried bobby pins but it was a waste of time. They damaged the fibre.


----------



## shinobi3

Here is a couple more


----------



## Huntinsker

skullerud said:


> The pinstriping triggered me enough to make my have a go at it.
> Work out pretty nice, using goolf pegs to separate.
> 
> Added my own little trick, pulling the pinstripe threads to the outside, putting a couple of small nails under the pinstripe threads, resting on the color threads. That way there was no need for scrap thread to provide pull the pinstripe out from the bundle when twisting.
> It laid itself nicely on top where it should be


Yeah my method on pinstripes has evolved quite a bit. I only use 3 golf tees in each end and it comes out perfect. I'm making a pinstripe set for my new bow here today or tomorrow so I'll snap some pics so you can see how I do it now. I still chase the strands if needed just because I always think it could look and lay out better.


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> Here is a couple more
> View attachment 2043069
> View attachment 2043070


Nice looking thread. Seems that you're progressing quickly. It doesn't take many strings before you get the hang of things.


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks, I'm starting to feel more comfortable that's for sure. I haven't done a split buss with a pinstripe yet. So we will see how that gies


----------



## SamT

Nice Shinobi3. Good color combo!


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks


----------



## retrieverfishin

I NEVER chase pinstripes. It is a good way to get uneven stress in the string. The pins need to travel farther since they are always on the outside of the string. Just divide them and twist. It seems to work pretty good and keeps the tension even.


----------



## Huntinsker

retrieverfishin said:


> I NEVER chase pinstripes. It is a good way to get uneven stress in the string. The pins need to travel farther since they are always on the outside of the string. Just divide them and twist. It seems to work pretty good and keeps the tension even.


I've never had a problem. When I "chase" them it's literally just running a scrap piece of material under the pin so that it brings it to the top incase it gets hidden a little under the primary colors. It doesn't take much effort and I've never experienced uneven strand tension.


----------



## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> I have found that small cotter pins work great for chasing the colors when pinstriping.
> 
> Automan


horrible idea to use METAL cotter pins that you have to slide on and off of strings to use... their cheaply coated alot of times and arent polished perfectly smooth, even AL pins are a bad idea. never use any metal on a bowstring.... specially something your sliding up and down the entire string...


----------



## automan26

dwagoner said:


> horrible idea to use METAL cotter pins that you have to slide on and off of strings to use... their cheaply coated alot of times and arent polished perfectly smooth, even AL pins are a bad idea. never use any metal on a bowstring.... specially something your sliding up and down the entire string...


Actually it's not a problem at all. First, I chase the colors after only the first few twists and the cotter pins are not all that rough. I have been doing this successfully for awhile now and have never had even the slightest hint of a problem---EVER.

Automan


----------



## xuzme720

Getting materials together to make a jig of my own. Some great thread examples to try to live up to here!

At the risk of seeming like a troll, I have to ask. I've been reading through this thread and was wondering, has dwagoner ever actually contributed or only offered scathing ridicule? Maybe I missed one...


----------



## 2X_LUNG

The latter


----------



## Purka

Some of his ridicule is of value to some that are new to string making. even though they probably feel like giving him the finger lol.


----------



## retrieverfishin

There are many great tips in this thread, but some not so great ones as well IMO. while dwagoner may be making negative comments mostly I agree with 95% of them and they need to be said.


----------



## skullerud

My first attempt on pinstriping.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Looking good. Keep at it


----------



## shinobi3

New colors I've done .... Rally liking the yellow and bronze... Prolly put a black pin in it next time


----------



## grimmsterdad

shinobi3 said:


> New colors I've done .... Rally liking the yellow and bronze... Prolly put a black pin in it next time
> View attachment 2045238


Very nice, what material are you using? Is that X or 452x?


----------



## silhouette13

skullerud said:


> My first attempt on pinstriping.


very nice! sometimes its nice having the prettiest date in the room! and she is a looker


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks...It's s fury


----------



## Stickbower

On post 1270 automan was talking about d loop alternative 
Just wanted to know if 275 paracord will work its 7.99 on eBay for a 100' it's 3/32" or 2.38mm


----------



## Huntinsker

Stickbower said:


> On post 1270 automan was talking about d loop alternative
> Just wanted to know if 275 paracord will work its 7.99 on eBay for a 100' it's 3/32" or 2.38mm


It would work but it's a but thicker than most loop materials. 1.8 or 2mm is kind of the standard. You may find that if you're using a caliper style release, the release may have more trigger travel to set it off.


----------



## shinobi3

New color I did


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

That looks really good shinobi.


----------



## shinobi3

NoDeerInIowa said:


> That looks really good shinobi.


Thanks


----------



## xuzme720

Purka said:


> Some of his ridicule is of value to some that are new to string making. even though they probably feel like giving him the finger lol.





retrieverfishin said:


> There are many great tips in this thread, but some not so great ones as well IMO. while dwagoner may be making negative comments mostly I agree with 95% of them and they need to be said.


Maybe it's just the way he goes about it. I'd be more likely to take his advice if it wasn't given in such a negative manner. I'm new here so I'll leave it at that...


----------



## shinobi3

Did this ... Prolly gonna put this on my bow


----------



## bigbuckisamust

I swear, he's never said a word to me but I would love to give him the finger. lmao! but, im not an internet bully. i'd olove to see him in person and tell him what I really think. who made him string king in the first place. He's probably single at whatever age he is(stone age) due to arrogance and self appeal. I swear some people just don't have a clue but want to cry wolf about how there life is so horrible and not happy. but here is a truth that you probably didn't know for that certain person that every body hates to see in a thread. while you think people are laughing with you they're laughing at you because you sir ( and we all know who im talking about) are an A**hole.


----------



## bigbuckisamust

Purka said:


> Some of his ridicule is of value to some that are new to string making. even though they probably feel like giving him the finger lol.


I swear, he's never said a word to me but I would love to give him the finger. lmao! but, im not an internet bully. i'd olove to see him in person and tell him what I really think. who made him string king in the first place. He's probably single at whatever age he is(stone age) due to arrogance and self appeal. I swear some people just don't have a clue but want to cry wolf about how there life is so horrible and not happy. but here is a truth that you probably didn't know for that certain person that every body hates to see in a thread. while you think people are laughing with you they're laughing at you because you sir ( and we all know who im talking about) are an A**hole.


----------



## archern00b

*small block spring*



automan26 said:


> A speed shop told me that at coil bind this spring should be close to 300#. At 1 5/8" it measures 100#.
> Automan


thank you, was fixing to post this question in el-cheap-o thread. the spring you use on your jig was my favorite part. I have a ton of them from my younger days.

thank you.


----------



## automan26

I have used this spring to build strings for many years and the strings have zero stretch and zero peep rotation. I have had others report the same results using that spring. Make sure you use an intake valve spring. SOME of the older Chevys used a shorter exhaust spring in which case the 100# length will be different, but they will still work fine.

Automan


----------



## archern00b

never noticed that about the springs as for gm small block (aka government motors) c(= . the oldest I worked I the would was the double hump and don't remember any difference in length.


----------



## automan26

archern00b said:


> never noticed that about the springs as for gm small block (aka government motors) c(= . the oldest I worked I the would was the double hump and don't remember any difference in length.


Some of them ran a positive valve rotator on the exhaust valves. This rotator was quite thick, making it necessary to use a shorter spring. The shorter spring could still be made to work on the jig.

Automan


----------



## archern00b

automan26 said:


> I give it all the tension the jig can put out and I am confident that I am pulling over 450 pounds.
> 
> Automan


ok now just two more question. I was under the assumption that a small block spring will put out just under 300 pounds(flattened). are you saying this about a small block spring or a different spring? if it is a small block spring how far should I go with it in inches to get the final stretch?


----------



## automan26

archern00b said:


> ok now just two more question. I was under the assumption that a small block spring will put out just under 300 pounds(flattened). are you saying this about a small block spring or a different spring? if it is a small block spring how far should I go with it in inches to get the final stretch?


After the spring is fully compressed the jig still has the ability to tighten further and increase the tension on the string. With the jig tightened past full spring compression you can build some really nasty tensions (400#+). If you tighten the jig to where the coils close against themselves you will have sufficient tension to properly stretch the string.(300#ish)

Automan


----------



## djm029

Archer helping archers.. Simply awesome thank you


----------



## shinobi3

Got my strings ready for this year


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks nice shinobi3.


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks... I used cable fix and bullwhip for the center serving .... Really like how it turned out


----------



## X-BowHunter

nice thread, thanks...


----------



## automan26

shinobi3 said:


> Got my strings ready for this year
> View attachment 2051598
> View attachment 2051600


What material is that? I have always liked orange. 

AUTOMAN


----------



## shinobi3

It's brownell fury with bullwhip serving


----------



## buddy13

I walked in the local bow shop the other day more of an out door store with a bow section and a young kid that knows a little anyway there was a guy in there with an older bow.He was having trouble finding a string looked at the bow took a few measurements told him i will have one here tomorrow tried to give me 20 bucks he looked like he needed more than me so i told him thats ok went home made him a set black and red with a grey pin stripe..Talked to the kid and he siad to the guy you realize you just got a custom string for free he said he has never seen such atention to detail Just wanted to share that thanks all that have helped me along the way! Oh and another thing to you guys just starting stretch twist length is all well pay atention to the charts but it will change with each person so do the 30 60 90 test string and use that for your refernce great thread again thanks all


----------



## automan26

That's an awesome story. The reward you get from helping someone out for free is always worth more than the few bucks you would have received as payment. It will be a great feeling when you realize that some guy is out there dropping deer with your string. The colors you used sound like they would have made a beautiful string.

Archers Helping Archers!!!!!

Automan


----------



## shinobi3

New string


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> I walked in the local bow shop the other day more of an out door store with a bow section and a young kid that knows a little anyway there was a guy in there with an older bow.He was having trouble finding a string looked at the bow took a few measurements told him i will have one here tomorrow tried to give me 20 bucks he looked like he needed more than me so i told him thats ok went home made him a set black and red with a grey pin stripe..Talked to the kid and he siad to the guy you realize you just got a custom string for free he said he has never seen such atention to detail Just wanted to share that thanks all that have helped me along the way! Oh and another thing to you guys just starting stretch twist length is all well pay atention to the charts but it will change with each person so do the 30 60 90 test string and use that for your refernce great thread again thanks all


:thumbs_up


----------



## buddy13

Anyone got 452 x for sale cheap that changed over to brownell?


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker can you post pics of how you use 3 golf tees instead of 4 when separating strands for pinstripes?


----------



## Huntinsker

So I've gotten some PMs with questions about how I do some things and I've realized that my processes have evolved a bit but I haven't done a good job of show the evolution on the thread lately. Here are some pics of a pinstripe Fury string I'm making for my Anarchy HC. 

I actually got a great question from t8ter about how to keep the tag ends from crossing over the other color bundle when wrapping them the first few times. He actually brought up what I think is a great option on a 2 color string where you have one tag end of each color at each end. He asked if bringing the color that's on top over the top and through the middle and the color that's on bottom from under and through the middle would work? I actually think that would work perfectly. It may be a little more time consuming but it should prevent the cross over that pulling the bottom color over the top may cause if you're not careful. I thought it should also work well to on 2 color strings where you have 2 tags of each color at each end. That's what I'm showing here.









I'll admit that I didn't do it that way because I have gotten so used to going over the top while being able to keep the tag ends from crossing over. However, if you're having a little trouble keeping them from crossing over, this may be a good option to try.

Next is how I finish the tag ends on a pinstripe. I've changed my process and no longer do the dual color loops. They look cool but they aren't as tight, they are a larger diameter and they take a lot of time to get to lay out nicely. Instead I do what Ray Knight does and I tie off the pinstripe tag ends back towards the middle of the string and then wrap over them and finally wrap the pinstripe tags through the middle of the bundle 5-6 times. Then I cover them up with the primary color and clip them off so that they are under the primary color. 















Then I get asked about separating dual pinstripes with 3 golf tees at each end. I use one tee to separate the primary colors and I have one side of the pinstripe on top and the other beneath that tee. Then the other 2 tees push the stripes to the outsides so they lay on top when twisting. When you pull the tees out after twisting, pull the 2 tees that are holding the pinstripes to the sides first then pull the tee that's between the primary colors. That way the stripe is nicely on top of but still between the primary colors.









Then the twisted and burnished string looks like this. 14 grey, 14 black and 4 flo orange Fury.









Oh if you're wondering where my string posts with the smooth cap screw went, I still have those but I have these posts in from when I made some really small loops for a Bear Agenda that had the old cams. The small loops wouldn't have fit over the cap screw head.


----------



## lunghit

Thanks for the updates on your process. I finish my pinstripe tags the same way except I don't cover them up with the primary color. Now after you cover the pin tag do you back serve the primary tag to end the serve? I will have to try that on my next set.


----------



## t8ter

Huntinsker said:


> So I've gotten some PMs with questions about how I do some things and I've realized that my processes have evolved a bit but I haven't done a good job of show the evolution on the thread lately. Here are some pics of a pinstripe Fury string I'm making for my Anarchy HC.
> 
> I actually got a great question from t8ter about how to keep the tag ends from crossing over the other color bundle when wrapping them the first few times. He actually brought up what I think is a great option on a 2 color string where you have one tag end of each color at each end. He asked if bringing the color that's on top over the top and through the middle and the color that's on bottom from under and through the middle would work? I actually think that would work perfectly. It may be a little more time consuming but it should prevent the cross over that pulling the bottom color over the top may cause if you're not careful. I thought it should also work well to on 2 color strings where you have 2 tags of each color at each end. That's what I'm showing here.
> 
> View attachment 2058560
> 
> 
> I'll admit that I didn't do it that way because I have gotten so used to going over the top while being able to keep the tag ends from crossing over. However, if you're having a little trouble keeping them from crossing over, this may be a good option to try.
> 
> Next is how I finish the tag ends on a pinstripe. I've changed my process and no longer do the dual color loops. They look cool but they aren't as tight, they are a larger diameter and they take a lot of time to get to lay out nicely. Instead I do what Ray Knight does and I tie off the pinstripe tag ends back towards the middle of the string and then wrap over them and finally wrap the pinstripe tags through the middle of the bundle 5-6 times. Then I cover them up with the primary color and clip them off so that they are under the primary color.
> 
> View attachment 2058565
> View attachment 2058568
> 
> 
> Then I get asked about separating dual pinstripes with 3 golf tees at each end. I use one tee to separate the primary colors and I have one side of the pinstripe on top and the other beneath that tee. Then the other 2 tees push the stripes to the outsides so they lay on top when twisting. When you pull the tees out after twisting, pull the 2 tees that are holding the pinstripes to the sides first then pull the tee that's between the primary colors. That way the stripe is nicely on top of but still between the primary colors.
> 
> View attachment 2058571
> 
> 
> Then the twisted and burnished string looks like this. 14 grey, 14 black and 4 flo orange Fury.
> 
> View attachment 2058572
> 
> 
> Oh if you're wondering where my string posts with the smooth cap screw went, I still have those but I have these posts in from when I made some really small loops for a Bear Agenda that had the old cams. The small loops wouldn't have fit over the cap screw head.


This is why I joined AT way back when.
Thanks 4 the Huntinsker


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Thanks for the updates on your process. I finish my pinstripe tags the same way except I don't cover them up with the primary color. Now after you cover the pin tag do you back serve the primary tag to end the serve? I will have to try that on my next set.


Yep that's what I do. I still finish the loop like I always have, I just go over the pinstripe tag end after wrapping it. It makes a really nice transition. It doesn't hurt that Fury is such a small diameter. It makes everything look nicer.


----------



## Huntinsker

t8ter said:


> This is why I joined AT way back when.
> Thanks 4 the Huntinsker


No problem man. Glad you're in the string building community.


----------



## basnbuks

Tag


----------



## jameswk

this was mu first attempt after viewing this thread im going to keep trying and getting better thanks for all the tips


----------



## jameswk

maybe its been answered here but I was wondering about speed nock placement on single cam and dual cam bows?


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> maybe its been answered here but I was wondering about speed nock placement on single cam and dual cam bows?


Strings look good on that Infinite Edge. 

Speed nocks are something that takes trial and error with a chronograph to find the sweet spot. Most people have gotten away from actual brass nocks and are using some sort of speed sleeve. I personally like Ray Knights TPU speed nocks the best. They are much easier to adjust positions than actual brass nocks and once you find the sweet spot, just a drop of glue on the serving will lock them in place for good. 

Many speed nock locations are now being added to serving layout charts. If you go through the sticky in the Arrows and Strings forum, most guys will include them with the serving layout info. They do make a difference and sometimes if you have the bow in hand, you can play with them and get more speed over the stock locations. I got an extra 5fps for my buddy's Alphaburner.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> Strings look good on that Infinite Edge.
> 
> Speed nocks are something that takes trial and error with a chronograph to find the sweet spot. Most people have gotten away from actual brass nocks and are using some sort of speed sleeve. I personally like Ray Knights TPU speed nocks the best. They are much easier to adjust positions than actual brass nocks and once you find the sweet spot, just a drop of glue on the serving will lock them in place for good.
> 
> Many speed nock locations are now being added to serving layout charts. If you go through the sticky in the Arrows and Strings forum, most guys will include them with the serving layout info. They do make a difference and sometimes if you have the bow in hand, you can play with them and get more speed over the stock locations. I got an extra 5fps for my buddy's Alphaburner.



awesome ill try those on my next set thanks again


----------



## crippleminded

Tagged!


----------



## Pete K

tagged


----------



## jameswk

Made 2nd set of string and cable this weekend. Used this method pictures don't do colors justice. Flo yellow on the light blue wave look sweet in person


----------



## automan26

*Learn from my mistake*

I have been having a problem on the last several sets of strings I have built which has been driving me crazy. No matter how carefully I assembled the string and no matter how much attention I gave to detail, when I would relax my finished string on the jig I found that small bumps were appearing in the strings. The strings performed flawlessly and once under very slight tension the bumps totally disappeared. It was purely a cosmetic issue, but I was at a loss as to what was causing this problem. Yesterday I figured it out. In a effort to make a smooth round string I would install about 10-15 twists, then burnish the string hoping that the string would stay tight and round with good color separation throughout the build. After twisting the string several more times I would burnish it again and finally, when totally finished I would give it a final burnishing. I discovered yesterday that burnishing the string too early in the twisting process was causing the bumps to appear after stretching and relaxing. All that burnishing was compressing the color bundles too tightly, not allowing enough room for contraction after relaxing the tension. I was actually compressing my strands and getting the string too tight internally.

Yesterday I waited until all the twists were installed before burnishing and found that the bump problem had vanished. I had been warned about over burnishing, but I had no idea that by being too careful to produce a perfectly round and smooth string I was over burnishing. 

Well, live and learn I guess. Hopefully this will help others avoid the problems I got myself into.:embara:

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I have been having a problem on the last several sets of strings I have built which has been driving me crazy. No matter how carefully I assembled the string and no matter how much attention I gave to detail, when I would relax my finished string on the jig I found that small bumps were appearing in the strings. The strings performed flawlessly and once under very slight tension the bumps totally disappeared. It was purely a cosmetic issue, but I was at a loss as to what was causing this problem. Yesterday I figured it out. In a effort to make a smooth round string I would install about 10-15 twists, then burnish the string hoping that the string would stay tight and round with good color separation throughout the build. After twisting the string several more times I would burnish it again and finally, when totally finished I would give it a final burnishing. I discovered yesterday that burnishing the string too early in the twisting process was causing the bumps to appear after stretching and relaxing. All that burnishing was compressing the color bundles too tightly, not allowing enough room for contraction after relaxing the tension. I was actually compressing my strands and getting the string too tight internally.
> 
> Yesterday I waited until all the twists were installed before burnishing and found that the bump problem had vanished. I had been warned about over burnishing, but I had no idea that by being too careful to produce a perfectly round and smooth string I was over burnishing.
> 
> Well, live and learn I guess. Hopefully this will help others avoid the problems I got myself into.:embara:
> 
> Automan


I noticed this on some of my first sets. I realized, in my case, it was caused by how I burnished. I was using short strokes and stopping somewhere in the middle of the string. Now I go from one end to the other in long smooth strokes and it has considerably cut down on the bumps.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I lay mine out, burnish each color separately, and then finish the tags. After, I twist up and then put under 350lbs tension. 

While under tension, I burnish the entire string together. It turns out flawlessly every time. Actually, I have a pinstripe addiction. Lol


----------



## David W. Johnso

So...if I decided to start doing this...how much is the capital outlay? How much am I going to spend to put together a usable stretcher and get a couple of colors of thread and some serving?

David


----------



## shinobi3

I too have notice small bumps
and I have waited until the end to burnish. It helps some but I think I need to holding tension what laying out


----------



## automan26

jameswk said:


> Made 2nd set of string and cable this weekend. Used this method pictures don't do colors justice. Flo yellow on the light blue wave look sweet in person
> View attachment 2061149


That bow should really get noticed!!! If it were mine I would definitely make sure everyone got a good look. Those new threads look great, but now that you are addicted to building strings I wouldn't be surprised if you build another set real soon.

You are doing great, keep up the good work.

Automan


----------



## 48archer

Another thing that causes the bumps in your strings is when you start serving the tag ends, when starting tag ends don't pull too hard and tight on the first few times the tags are started, seems like pulling the first few too hard causes the layout to go uneven.


----------



## shinobi3

^^ that's a good tip


----------



## jameswk

automan26 said:


> That bow should really get noticed!!! If it were mine I would definitely make sure everyone got a good look. Those new threads look great, but now that you are addicted to building strings I wouldn't be surprised if you build another set real soon.
> 
> You are doing great, keep up the good work.
> 
> Automan



Thank you! I really enjoy it to me its relaxing... in fact i just placed an order for more material... who has 2 thumbs and is hooked on string making.... THIS GUY!!! Thanks for all your help everyone!


----------



## Huntinsker

David W. Johnso said:


> So...if I decided to start doing this...how much is the capital outlay? How much am I going to spend to put together a usable stretcher and get a couple of colors of thread and some serving?
> 
> David


I'm not sure what it would cost you in Belgium but if you build a barebones stretcher/jig, you can figure $50-75 US in parts. Then, depending on how you got your material, you can figure 25-30 dollars per color of string material and 15-30 per spool of serving. Sometimes you can find some good deals on materials to build with in the classifieds.


----------



## jameswk

Got my spring in today now I'm gonna make my first string with pin stripe I'll send pics


----------



## David W. Johnso

Huntinsker said:


> I'm not sure what it would cost you in Belgium but if you build a barebones stretcher/jig, you can figure $50-75 US in parts. Then, depending on how you got your material, you can figure 25-30 dollars per color of string material and 15-30 per spool of serving. Sometimes you can find some good deals on materials to build with in the classifieds.


That's plenty reasonable. After a couple of strings, you're doing well on the costs. Plus, it's fun.

I'm in Belgium with the US Army, so I order stuff from the US and have it shipped to my APO. Everything here costs twice what it does in the US.

Thanks for the response.

David


----------



## jameswk




----------



## jameswk

Got a question about strand count.... How does it affect the string I would assume lower strand count quicker string? But I could be way off. Any insight would be appreciated


----------



## VillageATX

jameswk said:


> Got my spring in today now I'm gonna make my first string with pin stripe I'll send pics ....


That's a great-looking setup! Where did you source the angle brackets and the lobed adjustment knob? Sorry if it was mentioned before - I may have missed it in the last 50 pages.


----------



## jameswk

VillageATX said:


> That's a great-looking setup! Where did you source the angle brackets and the lobed adjustment knob? Sorry if it was mentioned before - I may have missed it in the last 50 pages.


It's actually the bcy micro stretcher I'm a cheater and bought it and bought the spring separate for 60$ plus the cost of spring and kendorph I figured it would save a ton of thinking on my part


----------



## K.G.K.

Im sure this is in this thread somewhere, but could someone explain when you split the yoke to make a split yoke construction? Do you twist the entire string and then serve where the yoke splits and then unwind that section to create the Y? Do you serve the the ends first before serving the split y area if you choose to serve the ends? Thanks!


----------



## jameswk

I've just been twisting the entire cable serving at the y and then untwisting to serve to 2 yoke ends... Doesn't mean it's correct


----------



## K.G.K.

jameswk said:


> I've just been twisting the entire cable serving at the y and then untwisting to serve to 2 yoke ends... Doesn't mean it's correct


Do the y sections continue to want to untwist the entire string length?


----------



## jameswk

K.G.K. said:


> Do the y sections continue to want to untwist the entire string length?


No they stop right at the 2 inches or so of serving... That's why I've been serving everything but those 2 yoke ends while the entire thing is twisted because I wanted them to have a solid place to untwist... Been working pretty good for me that way


----------



## K.G.K.

jameswk said:


> No they stop right at the 2 inches or so of serving... That's why I've been serving everything but those 2 yoke ends while the entire thing is twisted because I wanted them to have a solid place to untwist... Been working pretty good for me that way


When unwinding the Y ends dose it change the desired final length? Do you adjust the final length by re-twisting the Y ends individually?


----------



## jameswk

I think it's described on page 1 post #8. Step 12 says stretch and serve then follow steps 13-19 that's how I've been doing it I like the clean look of the ends of the yoke served


----------



## K.G.K.

jameswk said:


> I think it's described on page 1 post #8. Step 12 says stretch and serve then follow steps 13-19 that's how I've been doing it I like the clean look of the ends of the yoke served


Yes, I serve them too, what I meant is unwinding the strands to make two separate strand forming the Y will actually lengthen the entire string length unless twists are put back in. How do you adjust for that? Twist the Y strands or the other end? Thanks again!


----------



## jameswk

K.G.K. said:


> When unwinding the Y ends dose it change the desired final length? Do you adjust the final length by re-twisting the Y ends individually?


I've always got my final length while still twisted together and that's just because I feel like it's the most accurate... Once untrusted the 2 ends will be twisted to different lengths to adjust cam lean any how


----------



## K.G.K.

jameswk said:


> I've always got my final length while still twisted together and that's just because I feel like it's the most accurate... Once untrusted the 2 ends will be twisted to different lengths to adjust cam lean any how


Gotch ya, that make sense. Thanks!


----------



## Huntinsker

Yep, serve the bottom of the buss, then below where the yoke splits. If you want to serve under each yoke loop, take the end off the post, untwist the yoke legs from around one another, it helps to have the cable clamped on the serving under the yoke legs so that you don't lose twists, and then serve each leg, one at a time. Then put them both back on the post and bring it back up to tension to even the lengths again.


----------



## dwagoner

jameswk said:


>


very nice color combo... this is a 3 color and not a pinstripe. check out layouts on here from previous posts. with a stripe youll have the black inbetween each color... but i like this combo in a regular 3 color setup with equal strands for each color. i like this combo on Max1 bows....


----------



## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> I have been having a problem on the last several sets of strings I have built which has been driving me crazy. No matter how carefully I assembled the string and no matter how much attention I gave to detail, when I would relax my finished string on the jig I found that small bumps were appearing in the strings. The strings performed flawlessly and once under very slight tension the bumps totally disappeared. It was purely a cosmetic issue, but I was at a loss as to what was causing this problem. Yesterday I figured it out. In a effort to make a smooth round string I would install about 10-15 twists, then burnish the string hoping that the string would stay tight and round with good color separation throughout the build. After twisting the string several more times I would burnish it again and finally, when totally finished I would give it a final burnishing. I discovered yesterday that burnishing the string too early in the twisting process was causing the bumps to appear after stretching and relaxing. All that burnishing was compressing the color bundles too tightly, not allowing enough room for contraction after relaxing the tension. I was actually compressing my strands and getting the string too tight internally.
> 
> Yesterday I waited until all the twists were installed before burnishing and found that the bump problem had vanished. I had been warned about over burnishing, but I had no idea that by being too careful to produce a perfectly round and smooth string I was over burnishing.
> 
> Well, live and learn I guess. Hopefully this will help others avoid the problems I got myself into.:embara:
> 
> Automan


which material with the bumps??? i can show you a pic of a site sponsor with "bumps" in his thread too. you can tell me if there the same. i think i know exactly what your talking about though, and dont think its related to when you burnish, cus ive had before too and i never burnish till all done twisting. but have a good theory on it....


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> Yep, serve the bottom of the buss, then below where the yoke splits. If you want to serve under each yoke loop, take the end off the post, untwist the yoke legs from around one another, it helps to have the cable clamped on the serving under the yoke legs so that you don't lose twists, and then serve each leg, one at a time. Then put them both back on the post and bring it back up to tension to even the lengths again.


The key is to definitely secure the string where the yoke splits. Thanks


----------



## Reddy

Tag


----------



## skullerud

Doing a set of strings for a Bowtech Insanity cpxl.
It has speed nocks, and I was hoping someone here could tell me what you use for speed nocks? The shrink wrap is not a prob, just the speed nocks. 
Thanks


----------



## automan26

skullerud said:


> Doing a set of strings for a Bowtech Insanity cpxl.
> It has speed nocks, and I was hoping someone here could tell me what you use for speed nocks? The shrink wrap is not a prob, just the speed nocks.
> Thanks


I think most guys use brass nocksets. Usually they are attached to the string in groups of three, top and bottom of the string, and then the shrink wrap is applied over them.

Automan


----------



## automan26

dwagoner said:


> which material with the bumps??? i can show you a pic of a site sponsor with "bumps" in his thread too. you can tell me if there the same. i think i know exactly what your talking about though, and dont think its related to when you burnish, cus ive had before too and i never burnish till all done twisting. but have a good theory on it....


I have had this issue using both 452x and Fury. I believe that there is some issue with the way the different color bundles relax. I have often observed that the bumps are nearly always confined to one of the color bundles only. Possibly the different thickness of one color over another, due to the types of die and wax used, causes an uneven relaxation of the different colors when the tension is removed from the string, but that is only a guess. If you have a different theory I would be all ears. The problem is merely cosmetic and the string looks and functions perfectly when installed on the bow, but if I ever sell a set of strings without installing them myself, those bumps might turn someone off.

Automan


----------



## 48archer

automan26 said:


> I have had this issue using both 452x and Fury. I believe that there is some issue with the way the different color bundles relax. I have often observed that the bumps are nearly always confined to one of the color bundles only. Possibly the different thickness of one color over another, due to the types of die and wax used, causes an uneven relaxation of the different colors when the tension is removed from the string, but that is only a guess. If you have a different theory I would be all ears. The problem is merely cosmetic and the string looks and functions perfectly when installed on the bow, but if I ever sell a set of strings without installing them myself, those bumps might turn someone off.
> 
> Automan


It isn't that, I have had same color strings get them.


----------



## 86irocz28

Great Thread, answered a lot of questions I had about string building.


----------



## automan26

I went and found an old test string and took a pic of the bump I am talking about. Sorry for the fuzzy pic, my Samsung Tab 3 is not the greatest camera, but you can get an idea of the kind of bumps I am trying to rid myself from. This test string was made using Fury. 

Automan


----------



## jameswk

automan26 said:


> I went and found an old test string and took a pic of the bump I am talking about. Sorry for the fuzzy pic, my Samsung Tab 3 is not the greatest camera, but you can get an idea of the kind of bumps I am trying to rid myself from. This test string was made using Fury.
> 
> Automan


Wow that's weird and they go away once on the bow?


----------



## automan26

jameswk said:


> Wow that's weird and they go away once on the bow?


Totally---The string looks absolutely PERFECT once it is installed on the bow.

Automan


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

That string looks like it has the mumps. I haven't run into this yet. But, I did over burnish a black string set and it looked terrible.


----------



## jameswk

automan26 said:


> Totally---The string looks absolutely PERFECT once it is installed on the bow.
> 
> Automan


You think it's from stopping while burnishing?


automan26 said:


> Totally---The string looks absolutely PERFECT once it is installed on the bow.
> 
> Automan


----------



## farmer1980

I just picked must of the stuff to build this jig. I can't wait until I get it all complete and start building strings. Thanks so much for the great write up.


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I went and found an old test string and took a pic of the bump I am talking about. Sorry for the fuzzy pic, my Samsung Tab 3 is not the greatest camera, but you can get an idea of the kind of bumps I am trying to rid myself from. This test string was made using Fury.
> 
> Automan


Hey Automan. Try putting that back on the stretcher at 300 and burnish it again using long smooth strokes from end to end without stopping in the middle. Let it stretch for 5 minutes or so and then slowly back the tension off and then let it sit on the posts for a minute or two before taking it off and clipping the ends. I'd be interested to see if that removes the bumps.


----------



## jameswk

dwagoner said:


> very nice color combo... this is a 3 color and not a pinstripe. check out layouts on here from previous posts. with a stripe youll have the black inbetween each color... but i like this combo in a regular 3 color setup with equal strands for each color. i like this combo on Max1 bows....


Ok now that's a pinstripe I know where I went wrong with other one


----------



## K.G.K.

skullerud said:


> Doing a set of strings for a Bowtech Insanity cpxl.
> It has speed nocks, and I was hoping someone here could tell me what you use for speed nocks? The shrink wrap is not a prob, just the speed nocks.
> Thanks


Look up TPU Speed knocks. Its all I use now. Easy to use and very attractive.


----------



## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> Hey Automan. Try putting that back on the stretcher at 300 and burnish it again using long smooth strokes from end to end without stopping in the middle. Let it stretch for 5 minutes or so and then slowly back the tension off and then let it sit on the posts for a minute or two before taking it off already clipping the ends. I'd be interested to see if that removes the bumps.


I have already tried that several times on other strings, but those nasty bumps always come back once I remove the tension. I still think that the problem is caused when I burnish the string too early and too often during the build. I think I am overly compressing the color bundles to the point that they will only lay properly when under tension. 

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I have already tried that several times on other strings, but those nasty bumps always come back once I remove the tension. I still think that the problem is caused when I burnish the string too early and too often during the build. I think I am overly compressing the color bundles to the point that they will only lay properly when under tension.
> 
> Automan


Bummer


----------



## MHoward

I LOVE this thread. WOW!! You guys have inspired me to give this a try. I have made thousands of flemish strings for the last 20 some years. I really enjoyed making them. My daughter has found her gift in archery and since she has chosen the compound path (fine by me) this allows me to make things I never would. I took some liberties but made myself a jig somewhat like is posted on here. I am a woodworker by trade so working with metal has been interesting. Thank you all for posting all the good instructions on her for the average joe like myself. 

I did try using the 1/4 in roll pins on the post but found that they were flexing a bit and since they were so smooth the practice strings were sliding up and popping off under pressure. I reworked it and went with grade 8 bolts drilled and tapped into the nut. It works great and as soon as my string material comes I am going to make my daughter a new black and pink sting for her new bow.

Thanks again!


----------



## Huntinsker

That's great MHoward. I'm glad you've found the thread helpful. If you can make quality Flemish twist strings, you can do this. I make Flemish twist for some buddies and myself for our trad gear and I think it's harder to get a really good one than it is to make a good compound string. 

One thing that you may run into when you start making longer strings is that your posts may flex inward like this / \ when you bring the strings up to tension. You may need to add something to hold the back side of the all thread down if that happens. That's what the eye bolt is for on my jig.


----------



## jameswk

anyone got advice on making yokes for floating yoke cables like on the mathews monster id like to see how everyone is doing it...probably dont twist and only use one color im assuming????


----------



## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> I have already tried that several times on other strings, but those nasty bumps always come back once I remove the tension. I still think that the problem is caused when I burnish the string too early and too often during the build. I think I am overly compressing the color bundles to the point that they will only lay properly when under tension.
> 
> Automan


sent u PM


----------



## dwagoner

its basically a 12" string that you ONLY serve 4" in the center


----------



## dwagoner

jameswk said:


> Ok now that's a pinstripe I know where I went wrong with other one


sweet color combo.....looks nice


----------



## jameswk

dwagoner said:


> its basically a 12" string that you ONLY serve 4" in the center


i'm thinking its probably like a torqueless d loop making process on a larger scale then right...


----------



## caspian

some brass spools I had turned up for respooling bulk serving. made to fit a Beiter press with the slip rings.

http://imgur.com/vAc609S


----------



## Purka

Cool!


----------



## MHoward

Huntinsker said:


> That's great MHoward. I'm glad you've found the thread helpful. If you can make quality Flemish twist strings, you can do this. I make Flemish twist for some buddies and myself for our trad gear and I think it's harder to get a really good one than it is to make a good compound string.
> 
> One thing that you may run into when you start making longer strings is that your posts may flex inward like this / \ when you bring the strings up to tension. You may need to add something to hold the back side of the all thread down if that happens. That's what the eye bolt is for on my jig.


Thanks for the info. I will def add the I bolts when I get to a long string. I am hoping the material shows up today. I will also probably have a slew of questions for all of you too!


----------



## I Miss Alot

Does anyone know of someone in the St. Louis area that makes their own strings that I could watch and learn the ropes of string making from?


----------



## MHoward

I was thinking of building another set of posts for my jig just like one on here but none of the home improvement stores here in NW Ohio have the 1/2 in think 1 1/2" wide bar stock. Bummer.


----------



## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> I was thinking of building another set of posts for my jig just like one on here but none of the home improvement stores here in NW Ohio have the 1/2 in think 1 1/2" wide bar stock. Bummer.


Yeah I got mine from a metal supply place called Metal by the Foot in the Kansas City area. It's a pretty heavy piece of steel so most places won't stock something like that. You may be able to find something at a scrap yard.


----------



## MHoward

Huntinsker said:


> Yeah I got mine from a metal supply place called Metal by the Foot in the Kansas City area. It's a pretty heavy piece of steel so most places won't stock something like that. You may be able to find something at a scrap yard.



My dad knows a few people in the metal trade. He is also a knife maker so I wonder if he might have something in his shop. Would good old O2 tool steel or A1 work?


----------



## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> My dad knows a few people in the metal trade. He is also a knife maker so I wonder if he might have something in his shop. Would good old O2 tool steel or A1 work?


I don't know a lot about the characteristics of different types of steel. I suppose as long as they're not super brittle or soft, they should work.


----------



## Pietro65

Hello everyone !! Is a long time since I follow this wonderful thread. My name is Peter and I am in Italy. With your help, or learned how to build strings. I have the same problem of Automan even on strings of the same color. Can you help me in this problem ?? Thank you all for your advice. 
sorry if my english is not correct !!! Goodbye from Italy !!!


----------



## dwagoner

jameswk said:


> i'm thinking its probably like a torqueless d loop making process on a larger scale then right...


uh..... ya i guess.... those are only served in center so ya, just a 12" catfish loop LOL bet that will change DL some...HAHA


----------



## MHoward

So I went out and got a digital scale that goes up to 330 pounds from cabelas. There is a pic of a similar scale on her. I also had the print out of the spring compression and weight for the blue spring. I loaded the scale on the post and cranked away. I noticed that none of the numbers from the print out jive with what I measured with the scale on there. Am I wrong to think that the spring in the scale offsets load on the jig spring? I wonder this because I was going to make a gauge to use as i tension the string without the scale on there. The scale directions specifically say not to leave it under load for a long time. Plus when it shuts off after 90 seconds it goes back to zero. Should I get a different scale? 

Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> So I went out and got a digital scale that goes up to 330 pounds from cabelas. There is a pic of a similar scale on her. I also had the print out of the spring compression and weight for the blue spring. I loaded the scale on the post and cranked away. I noticed that none of the numbers from the print out jive with what I measured with the scale on there. Am I wrong to think that the spring in the scale offsets load on the jig spring? I wonder this because I was going to make a gauge to use as i tension the string without the scale on there. The scale directions specifically say not to leave it under load for a long time. Plus when it shuts off after 90 seconds it goes back to zero. Should I get a different scale?
> 
> Thanks


When I calibrated my spring, I used a dial scale so that it could be cranked slowly and I could stop and measure whenever I wanted. I double checked it with a digital bow scale that I have and the numbers were very close. That spring from McMaster Carr isn't a precision spring so you may get different measurements than the rest of us. Especially if your jig has more or less drag going through your posts than ours, you'll probably get different measurements. I always give my jig a tap on the spring end incase it's hanging up on a thread not allowing the spring to compress all the way. You may want to do that too.


----------



## MHoward

I checked the spring by by putting the scale on the posts and tightening it down. It read "with in a" to the printout on here. So I made a gauge to check it at 100#, 200#, and 320#. I think that should do it….but should I check it a few times when the string is on there and add turns if it looses a little weight?


----------



## Backstop

K.G.K. said:


> Look up TPU Speed knocks. Its all I use now. Easy to use and very attractive.


I used these TPU speed knocks on a set of strings I made for my Carbon Spyder Turbo and gained 12 ft/sec.. I used 4.. 2 on top and 2 on the bottom.


----------



## skullerud

Have to ask. 
Why TPU, and not bowjax or mercury, or just brass nocks?


----------



## K.G.K.

skullerud said:


> Have to ask.
> Why TPU, and not bowjax or mercury, or just brass nocks?


So easy to use and they stay in place. The bowjax would slide around after shots. Brass nocks are a little more involved and hard to move around if your going to take time to maximize their effectiveness, and then shrink wrap....what a pain.


----------



## K.G.K.

ttt


----------



## skullerud

Straight answer 
Thanks, mate


----------



## Huntinsker

skullerud said:


> Have to ask.
> Why TPU, and not bowjax or mercury, or just brass nocks?


I like them for a couple reasons. They stay put better, they look nicer and I like to support a good guy like Ray Knight.


----------



## jameswk

Got the tag end stripes figured out... Patience helps and they Really look sweet


----------



## skullerud

Ok.ok.
I get it. 
Ordered a bulk Package of TPUs ;-)


----------



## jameswk

And then this mess happens not sure what I did wrong but the material fanned out on me and looks like complete garbage...


----------



## jameswk

Should I wax the tag ends a little before I start to try and keep them from fraying?


----------



## Huntinsker

The problem with those types of loops is just what you've discovered. They take a lot of time and patience and when they don't come out right, they don't look that good. The reason your tag ends "spread out" is the direction they get twisted when wrapping them. If you make sure to keep them twisted during the process, it can help. I personally don't do loops like that anymore. It takes too much time and they aren't as tight. Page 56, post # 1385 shows how I now do pinstripe strings and loops. There is also a pic of a much easier way to separate the pinstripes before twisting.


----------



## jameswk

How do all of your strings shine like that


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> How do all of your strings shine like that


Not sure. Just burnish and take the pics with my crappy phone camera. It's just the flash I guess.


----------



## MHoward

Just found out that my string material should be arriving today or tomorrow....As soon as I get it I will be making my daughters string....pics will follow. It will probably be just a 2 color string. Cant wait!


----------



## MHoward

First string off the jig…this thread was so helpful and I look forward to a lot more of it. Thanks to BowBender, your string length/post set spreadsheet was SPOT on! Thanks to all that posted there helpful tips on here. 


More to come!


----------



## jameswk

MHoward said:


> First string off the jig…this thread was so helpful and I look forward to a lot more of it. Thanks to BowBender, your string length/post set spreadsheet was SPOT on! Thanks to all that posted there helpful tips on here.
> 
> 
> More to come!


Looks real good nice and round and shiny I gotta figure out how to get that shine I'm just not getting it as you can see


----------



## MHoward

jameswk said:


> Looks real good nice and round and shiny I gotta figure out how to get that shine I'm just not getting it as you can see


I wish I had the answer! I just followed what was said on here….I did what I have always done with my flemish string and used my fingers to "melt" the wax a bit which added a little shine.


----------



## dwagoner

dont worry bout shine on a string....your never looking at your strings while shooting a bow. and once you get bow out hunting and dirty they never look new again anyways..LOL

looks good MHOWARD


----------



## Darth Bow

Nice work!
Hey could you provide me with the link to BowBenders spreadsheet
Thank you in advance



MHoward said:


> First string off the jig…this thread was so helpful and I look forward to a lot more of it. Thanks to BowBender, your string length/post set spreadsheet was SPOT on! Thanks to all that posted there helpful tips on here.
> 
> 
> More to come!


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> Looks real good nice and round and shiny I gotta figure out how to get that shine I'm just not getting it as you can see


You may be taking more wax off while "dewaxing". Also I always take the pics after I burnish to make which makes the string nice and round and it melts the wax a bit which can give it a "shine". I wouldn't worry about it though. Put a little wax on it before installing on the bow and you'll be good to go.


----------



## MHoward

Here is my first attempt at a string, buss, and control cable for my daughters new freestyle. It was a fun project and I hope to do more. I am going to revamp my jig to be able to make it a 3 post jig for recurve strings….I really had a blast. Next up I want to try a pinstripe and an endless recurve served end string. Thanks again to Huntinsker for answering all my questions. 

I think the most challenging for me was the buss cable. I ended up making the clamp to hold it to tension each of the yoke strands. After making that it went a lot easier.

thanks again


----------



## jameswk

MHoward said:


> Here is my first attempt at a string, buss, and control cable for my daughters new freestyle. It was a fun project and I hope to do more. I am going to revamp my jig to be able to make it a 3 post jig for recurve strings….I really had a blast. Next up I want to try a pinstripe and an endless recurve served end string. Thanks again to Huntinsker for answering all my questions.
> 
> I think the most challenging for me was the buss cable. I ended up making the clamp to hold it to tension each of the yoke strands. After making that it went a lot easier.
> 
> thanks again


Looks good


----------



## MHoward

jameswk said:


> Looks good


Thanks!!


----------



## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> Here is my first attempt at a string, buss, and control cable for my daughters new freestyle. It was a fun project and I hope to do more. I am going to revamp my jig to be able to make it a 3 post jig for recurve strings….I really had a blast. Next up I want to try a pinstripe and an endless recurve served end string. Thanks again to Huntinsker for answering all my questions.
> 
> I think the most challenging for me was the buss cable. I ended up making the clamp to hold it to tension each of the yoke strands. After making that it went a lot easier.
> 
> thanks again


Looks really good. I'd venture to guess that most of the guys that are selling strings on here didn't have their first set come out that well. Nicely done.


----------



## MHoward

Huntinsker said:


> Looks really good. I'd venture to guess that most of the guys that are selling strings on here didn't have their first set come out that well. Nicely done.


Thanks! I am not an avid sports fan....or the bar type. I like to keep my hands and mind busy. This kind of project is perfect. I have a rotation of things...like paracord stuff...leather braiding, hat making and repair...so its nice to cycle through them so I don't get burned out on any of them


----------



## buddy13

shot two bucks with the strings I made bow is in perfect tune..The only draw back is I hate walking through the brush with my pretty sting......Oh ya an excuse to make another one


----------



## Huntinsker

buddy13 said:


> shot two bucks with the strings I made bow is in perfect tune..The only draw back is I hate walking through the brush with my pretty sting......Oh ya an excuse to make another one


Awesome! I use a Primos Bow Sling to protect my threads.


----------



## buddy13

60 pages this should be made into a booklet or book photos and all nothing changed .I would buy it for reference


----------



## lunghit

Well I killed my first deer with my own strings on Nov 3rd! A few of my friends have killed some deer with my threads. I love hearing success stories with my strings.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Well I killed my first deer with my own strings on Nov 3rd! A few of my friends have killed some deer with my threads. I love hearing success stories with my strings.


Heck of a buck! It's a good feeling.


----------



## BlackRiverHA

bump


----------



## dwagoner

BlackRiverHA said:


> bump


bump for what ?????????? LOL


----------



## dwagoner

lunghit said:


> Well I killed my first deer with my own strings on Nov 3rd! A few of my friends have killed some deer with my threads. I love hearing success stories with my strings.


CONGRATS on the nice buck....i too like seeing people that show me their kills, their wins at shoots, and ive even seen my own strings on a very popular tv show.... Relentless Pursuit... that was cool for me to see... 

Good job, wish i had a buck...


----------



## BlackRiverHA

dwagoner said:


> bump for what ?????????? LOL


To mark the thread!! Bout to jump in this fun!


----------



## buddy13

3 bucks my threads


----------



## buddy13

buddy13 said:


> 3 bucks my threads


one more tag


----------



## lunghit

dwagoner said:


> CONGRATS on the nice buck....i too like seeing people that show me their kills, their wins at shoots, and ive even seen my own strings on a very popular tv show.... Relentless Pursuit... that was cool for me to see...
> 
> Good job, wish i had a buck...


Thanks man. Seeing your strings on TV must have been very cool and rewarding.


----------



## lunghit

Here is my second kill with my threads. Too bad I had the sling on when I took the pic.


----------



## dwagoner

im ready for some YOTE action this winter after done deer hunting in AZ..... im gonna make my kid a YOTE hoodie.... LOL let him wear to 1st grade... head on hood too AHHA

nice job


----------



## BlackRiverHA

How long does it take to make a full set of threads for a two cam bow?


----------



## jameswk

BlackRiverHA said:


> How long does it take to make a full set of threads for a two cam bow?


It took me a like 6 hours to do my first full set


----------



## buddy13

best thing most info I ever got off a computer


----------



## grimmsterdad

lunghit said:


> Here is my second kill with my threads. Too bad I had the sling on when I took the pic.


Now that is impressive.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Here is my second kill with my threads. Too bad I had the sling on when I took the pic.


Nice job on the yote. That's one animal that's on the top of my list with a bow. I've just never been able to get them to stop for a decent shot.


----------



## shinobi3

What do you guys think of the new no cam mathews? You think the strings would be tough to make?


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> What do you guys think of the new no cam mathews? You think the strings would be tough to make?
> View attachment 2090150


I know I for one, wouldn't be a guinea pig for it's first design. They already look to have cam rubbing issues and threw that big Teflon bandaid on it. Besides that, I haven't had one in my hands to see how the cables are made. They look like the huge loop is actually done like you would if you were making an endless loop buss cable but then it's looped over the bearing and then back through itself. I'll have to check one out some time over the holiday when I have a little more time on my hands to find out for sure though.


----------



## shinobi3

I'm with you it looks confusing


----------



## 48archer

No harder than making a cable for any of the X bows or Monsters. It wraps around the cam bearing and you pull it through its self like if you were doing one with the donut.


----------



## caspian

yeah, same as the cable for use with a floating yoke, it just goes around and back through itself.


----------



## shinobi3

Just leave that plastic piece off


----------



## 48archer

Huntinsker said:


> I know I for one, wouldn't be a guinea pig for it's first design. They already look to have cam rubbing issues and threw that big Teflon bandaid on it. Besides that, I haven't had one in my hands to see how the cables are made. They look like the huge loop is actually done like you would if you were making an endless loop buss cable but then it's looped over the bearing and then back through itself. I'll have to check one out some time over the holiday when I have a little more time on my hands to find out for sure though.


I don't think I would call it a band aid, granted the cable is close to the cam but maybe Mathews put it there for the people that torque the riser when drawing. I am sure that some would complain if Mathews didn't put anything there to protect the cables also.


----------



## Huntinsker

48archer said:


> I don't think I would call it a band aid, granted the cable is close to the cam but maybe Mathews put it there for the people that torque the riser when drawing. I am sure that some would complain if Mathews didn't put anything there to protect the cables also.


Maybe so but to me that shows the designers were like "Well we have it close. Lets just put this on here so we make the release date and then we'll do better next time". If it were me, I'd wait until the second generation comes out. It's kind of strange that they've been working on this for so long and they still need that thing on there. I haven't had one in my hands but I'd imagine, just like other bows, that you could change the shim spacing a bit to possibly fix any unwanted lean so it wouldn't rub. 

But that's not what this thread is about. 

String making, string making, string making. All right. Back on track.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> Maybe so but to me that shows the designers were like "Well we have it close. Lets just put this on here so we make the release date and then we'll do better next time". If it were me, I'd wait until the second generation comes out. It's kind of strange that they've been working on this for so long and they still need that thing on there. I haven't had one in my hands but I'd imagine, just like other bows, that you could change the shim spacing a bit to possibly fix any unwanted lean so it wouldn't rub.
> 
> But that's not what this thread is about.
> 
> String making, string making, string making. All right. Back on track.


String making string making string making 👍👍👍👍👍👍


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> So I've gotten some PMs with questions about how I do some things and I've realized that my processes have evolved a bit but I haven't done a good job of show the evolution on the thread lately. Here are some pics of a pinstripe Fury string I'm making for my Anarchy HC.
> 
> I actually got a great question from t8ter about how to keep the tag ends from crossing over the other color bundle when wrapping them the first few times. He actually brought up what I think is a great option on a 2 color string where you have one tag end of each color at each end. He asked if bringing the color that's on top over the top and through the middle and the color that's on bottom from under and through the middle would work? I actually think that would work perfectly. It may be a little more time consuming but it should prevent the cross over that pulling the bottom color over the top may cause if you're not careful. I thought it should also work well to on 2 color strings where you have 2 tags of each color at each end. That's what I'm showing here.
> 
> View attachment 2058560
> 
> 
> I'll admit that I didn't do it that way because I have gotten so used to going over the top while being able to keep the tag ends from crossing over. However, if you're having a little trouble keeping them from crossing over, this may be a good option to try.
> 
> Next is how I finish the tag ends on a pinstripe. I've changed my process and no longer do the dual color loops. They look cool but they aren't as tight, they are a larger diameter and they take a lot of time to get to lay out nicely. Instead I do what Ray Knight does and I tie off the pinstripe tag ends back towards the middle of the string and then wrap over them and finally wrap the pinstripe tags through the middle of the bundle 5-6 times. Then I cover them up with the primary color and clip them off so that they are under the primary color.
> 
> View attachment 2058565
> View attachment 2058568
> 
> 
> Then I get asked about separating dual pinstripes with 3 golf tees at each end. I use one tee to separate the primary colors and I have one side of the pinstripe on top and the other beneath that tee. Then the other 2 tees push the stripes to the outsides so they lay on top when twisting. When you pull the tees out after twisting, pull the 2 tees that are holding the pinstripes to the sides first then pull the tee that's between the primary colors. That way the stripe is nicely on top of but still between the primary colors.
> 
> View attachment 2058571
> 
> 
> Then the twisted and burnished string looks like this. 14 grey, 14 black and 4 flo orange Fury.
> 
> View attachment 2058572
> 
> 
> Oh if you're wondering where my string posts with the smooth cap screw went, I still have those but I have these posts in from when I made some really small loops for a Bear Agenda that had the old cams. The small loops wouldn't have fit over the cap screw head.


Im confused on how you tie off the pinstripe tags before you wrap the loop with the primary color. 

Also, the primary color loop is black in the picture, so is it grey on the other end? Is there pinstripe tags on the other end?

Thanks, excited to try a pin stripe using your method.


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Im confused on how you tie off the pinstripe tags before you wrap the loop with the primary color.
> 
> Also, the primary color loop is black in the picture, so is it grey on the other end? Is there pinstripe tags on the other end?
> 
> Thanks, excited to try a pin stripe using your method.


For this I just ran the pinstripe tag ends all the way to the other end and clamped them off with my second string clamp. I have 2 sets of washers on each clamp for holding tag ends. That's not the best option because it creates a lot of waste for longer threads but that's what I did here. I now have a second set of string clamps that I use in the middle on each side to hold each tag end so I don't have so much waste. 

Yes the second loop on this string is grey but there is no pinstripe tag end. I used 4 strands of orange, 2 in each pin, so I looped it twice and only had 2 tag ends.


----------



## K.G.K.

Wow, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying! Do you wrap your tag ends to make a loop before twisting and then serve over the kmot or do you leave the loop open and then twist the string and then back serve which makes the loop?


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Wow, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying! Do you wrap your tag ends to make a loop before twisting and then serve over the kmot or do you leave the loop open and then twist the string and then back serve which makes the loop?


I close the loop before twisting. I don't think it would really matter other than I like to put some decent tension for on the string before twisting to help and even all the strand tension and I think closing the loop would help the tag ends stay tight.


----------



## K.G.K.

Did you say you did 14, 14 and 4 strands for a total of 32 strands in your string? I thought strings were between 20 -28 strands tops.


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Did you say you did 14, 14 and 4 strands for a total of 32 strands in your string? I thought strings were between 20 -28 strands tops.


That string and cable is made with Brownell Fury which is the smallest strand size material on the market right now. You can use many more strands and still arrive at the same finished diameter. It makes a super round bundle and looks amazing in person.


----------



## Huntinsker

Huntinsker said:


> You can figure about $14-$18 per string or cable just in materials. Maybe more depending on what you pay for the material.


Guys, I got a PM about the cost of a set of strings and they asked about this quote from me. I "misspoke" when I said this. This should be around $14-18 for each set in materials depending on what you pay for the material. Not sure why I said per string or cable but it should be for the whole set.


----------



## K.G.K.

Thanks


----------



## BlackRiverHA

Huntinsker said:


> Guys, I got a PM about the cost of a set of strings and they asked about this quote from me. I "misspoke" when I said this. This should be around $14-18 for each set in materials depending on what you pay for the material. Not sure why I said per string or cable but it should be for the whole set.


thanks for clearing that up!! 

Now I just have to get my pretty new jigs (from Butch) mounted and rail mounted to my bench today!! Headed to Lowes shortly for some strut! Got me a little string to play with........going to be interesting. Thank you all for a great thread and participating! I have read this complete thread 3 times now and I "think" I no what I'm doing.


----------



## g_whitcomb

"1. Adjust the height of the eye bolts so that they keep the All-thread level when tension is applied to the jig posts. Due to the fact that the tension is not centered along the axis of the All-thread, the posts want to tilt down when under tension. This causes a severe binding problem that you will want to avoid."

I know this is a "no weld" project but won't the eye bolt wear the threads? Would a nut welded inside the eye bolt as an option prevent binding/wear on the threads or could a support brace be welded inside the bracket and do away with the eye bolt? (If one can weld or wanted to have it done) I am seriously considering building one of these and trying it out. 
I have always wondered how strings were made and this certainly explains that. Thanks for taking time to put this information together.


----------



## K.G.K.

Does Brownell Fury come in 1/8lb spools?


----------



## BlackRiverHA

Got the new jig setup, wrong channel but it will work for now. First practice string. Made a few mistakes, but came out okay.


----------



## Huntinsker

GreenAcres said:


> "1. Adjust the height of the eye bolts so that they keep the All-thread level when tension is applied to the jig posts. Due to the fact that the tension is not centered along the axis of the All-thread, the posts want to tilt down when under tension. This causes a severe binding problem that you will want to avoid."
> 
> I know this is a "no weld" project but won't the eye bolt wear the threads? Would a nut welded inside the eye bolt as an option prevent binding/wear on the threads or could a support brace be welded inside the bracket and do away with the eye bolt? (If one can weld or wanted to have it done) I am seriously considering building one of these and trying it out.
> I have always wondered how strings were made and this certainly explains that. Thanks for taking time to put this information together.


I'm glad you like the thread. The all thread does get worn down some as it goes through the eye bolts but it's not really a problem because it wears in the same spot which rarely needs to be used to tension the string. You wouldn't be able to put a nut inside the eyebolt because the all thread would have to rotate when you were adding tension to it which would twist the string as the tension was increasing. 

There have been a lot of pics posted of variations of this jig within the thread. There are ways to both reduce the binding and eliminate the eyebolts. As you flip through the thread, you'll see them and maybe can get ideas that you can work with.


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Does Brownell Fury come in 1/8lb spools?


PM Ray Knight. He can get it to you in 1/8 spools.


----------



## Huntinsker

BlackRiverHA said:


> Got the new jig setup, wrong channel but it will work for now. First practice string. Made a few mistakes, but came out okay.
> 
> View attachment 2092993
> 
> View attachment 2092995


:thumbs_up Looking good!


----------



## jonw

BlackRiverHA said:


> Got the new jig setup, wrong channel but it will work for now. First practice string. Made a few mistakes, but came out okay.
> 
> View attachment 2092993
> 
> View attachment 2092995


How do you like the string jig, I am loving mine. Butch has been great to work with and listens to suggestions


----------



## BlackRiverHA

I love the string jig from bownutt400 !!!


----------



## BlackRiverHA

Bump, show me some new stuff!!


----------



## jameswk

The one on top is halo. 014 and bottom is 3d this was my first time using halo I'm not impressed with the color at all and the halo was really fuzzy... Need some insight. I've had halo highly recommended for durability but is this what I can expect poor colors and fuzzy thread?


----------



## BlackRiverHA

Nice job on the end loops and the serving. The top yellow one looks good to me. The bottom red color looks kinda rough.


----------



## b0w_bender

I wonder, one of the guys on here said he put the Teflon tape under some of his end serving and that it helped lock it in place. Wouldn't it also help with the color bleed through?


----------



## jameswk

b0w_bender said:


> I wonder, one of the guys on here said he put the Teflon tape under some of his end serving and that it helped lock it in place. Wouldn't it also help with the color bleed through?


I'm not sure... To me it's as if the halo because it's braided just doesn't take the coloring as well it almost seems to flake off... Just w wondered if anyone else has that with halo or if its just me and something I'm doing


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> The one on top is halo. 014 and bottom is 3d this was my first time using halo I'm not impressed with the color at all and the halo was really fuzzy... Need some insight. I've had halo highly recommended for durability but is this what I can expect poor colors and fuzzy thread?


I think you may have those backwards. The Halo looks to be on bottom served over the black to me with the 3d on top. They have a different look to them when served.

I've not been happy with a couple spools of my colored Halo so I don't use it much. I had one spool of Flo Orange that the color would literally flake off in your hand. The problem is in how they color it. They have to try to apply the color to the outside and hope it sticks. It's more durable than 3d on problem cams but it doesn't hold the color as well. I've heard that Brownell Bullwhip hold color really well but it's pricey.


----------



## jameswk

yeah the picture flipped on me automatically when i was typing it up and on the original photo it is stated correctly... i have several colors of hall in the .019 size for tying peeps and rest cords and it does the same its flaky.... so if someone needs the durability of the halo .014 they can't be picky about the color looks or use white or black.. 




Huntinsker said:


> I think you may have those backwards. The Halo looks to be on bottom served over the black to me with the 3d on top. They have a different look to them when served.
> 
> I've not been happy with a couple spools of my colored Halo so I don't use it much. I had one spool of Flo Orange that the color would literally flake off in your hand. The problem is in how they color it. They have to try to apply the color to the outside and hope it sticks. It's more durable than 3d on problem cams but it doesn't hold the color as well. I've heard that Brownell Bullwhip hold color really well but it's pricey.


----------



## mattpse

What did I do wrong here? When I made my cables they didnt do this. It seperated when I let the tension off the string. I served the same direction of the twist of the string and around 300ish pounds. The material somehow gets sucked up between the serving when no tension is on the string. When I put tension back on the string this is what it looks like.... Any info would be appreciated.


----------



## Huntinsker

mattpse said:


> What did I do wrong here? When I made my cables they didnt do this. It seperated when I let the tension off the string. I served the same direction of the twist of the string and around 300ish pounds. The material somehow gets sucked up between the serving when no tension is on the string. When I put tension back on the string this is what it looks like.... Any info would be appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 2101464
> 
> 
> View attachment 2101468


Not sure why it would do that unless you accidentally advanced the jig too quickly to create the void. I've never had that happen but if I ever do have a void in the serving, I back up and reserve it to make it smooth.


----------



## mattpse

It looked perfect before I took the string off. I served it pretty tight. Tight enough that you couldn't spin the jig if you wanted to. I noticed that it was pretty stiff when I took it off. Can I redo it or is this string trash?


----------



## mattpse

I'm pretty sure I just served it too tight. When I took it off the jig and bent the string it must have separated then. I thought it did it when I released tension but after further inspection I can bend the string and it does it.


----------



## Huntinsker

mattpse said:


> It looked perfect before I took the string off. I served it pretty tight. Tight enough that you couldn't spin the jig if you wanted to. I noticed that it was pretty stiff when I took it off. Can I redo it or is this string trash?


You can always reserve it. If your serving jig was really that tight, you may have served too tightly which, unless you have your string at really high tension and with string clamps, can cause peep twist. It causes the twist rate to be different underneath the serving as what's in the exposed portions of the string.


----------



## mattpse

Huntinsker said:


> You can always reserve it. If your serving jig was really that tight, you may have served too tightly which, unless you have your string at really high tension and with string clamps, can cause peep twist. It causes the twist rate to be different underneath the serving as what's in the exposed portions of the string.


Alright thanks for your help. This is my first self built set of strings. Learning as I go :nod:


----------



## caspian

GreenAcres said:


> I know this is a "no weld" project but won't the eye bolt wear the threads?


looks like it already has in the pic in your post, you can see the light hitting the threads differently. I don't know it's a huge issue though, you don't need that much "throw" out of the tensioning post, and the threads in question would be moving away from the nuts, not into them. might have to regard that part as semi-sacrificial in the name of no welding.

you could try cutting a sleeve piece of copper tube and running it over the allthread inside the loop to cut the steel on steel contact?


----------



## automan26

GreenAcres said:


> "1. Adjust the height of the eye bolts so that they keep the All-thread level when tension is applied to the jig posts. Due to the fact that the tension is not centered along the axis of the All-thread, the posts want to tilt down when under tension. This causes a severe binding problem that you will want to avoid."
> 
> I know this is a "no weld" project but won't the eye bolt wear the threads? Would a nut welded inside the eye bolt as an option prevent binding/wear on the threads or could a support brace be welded inside the bracket and do away with the eye bolt? (If one can weld or wanted to have it done) I am seriously considering building one of these and trying it out.
> I have always wondered how strings were made and this certainly explains that. Thanks for taking time to put this information together.


In post 353 you can see my variation of the jig. The pipe sections I used are there to protect the threads as well as to keep the nuts away from any threads which may get dinged over time.

Automan


----------



## jameswk

Wanted to post up a couple pics the threads on the obsession are ones I did with 2 strand pins I liked it but I thought I would like it more if I made 1 strand pin so I tried it and I do like the single strand pin a lot they will be going on my bow for winter league's!


----------



## David W. Johnso

If anyone wants some practice, I need a new string and cable for my old Bear BTR. Just let me know. It's a backup bow I am playing with, so perfection isn't needed.


----------



## jbacon1340

Any colors specific? Only have black, fire, autumn, and a few flo colors


----------



## mattpse

I'm having a problem trying to keep the colors separated. When I'm doing the end loops and I'm pulling the tag ends tight, I always get a strand mixed in with the other color strands. It does it when the strings get squeezed together. Most of the time that area is served over and you can't see it but it still bugs me. I've tried separating the colors with tees and it still does it. Anybody got a good trick to remedy this?


----------



## Huntinsker

mattpse said:


> I'm having a problem trying to keep the colors separated. When I'm doing the end loops and I'm pulling the tag ends tight, I always get a strand mixed in with the other color strands. It does it when the strings get squeezed together. Most of the time that area is served over and you can't see it but it still bugs me. I've tried separating the colors with tees and it still does it. Anybody got a good trick to remedy this?


You can try doing what's been posted on page 12, post 296. Other than that, just be careful. I pull the tag ends as tight as I can without them rolling over and crossing the other colors. Then after 3-5 wraps they should be locked in place and then you can give it more tension. There's no real trick besides that. 

Another thing you can try would be to do the tag ends going opposite directions. Say you're making an orange and black string and you laid out the black first so the black tag end is on the bottom and the orange is on the top. You could cross your tag ends bringing the black tag from underneath and the orange over the top. That way they wouldn't want to cross when you pull them tight. It would be like you're doing the bottom loop on a split buss cable.


----------



## shinobi3

Here is a color I'm doing for my bro-in-law.


----------



## jameswk

shinobi3 said:


> Here is a color I'm doing for my bro-in-law.
> View attachment 2104404


Love it


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## Huntinsker

Looks good shinobi3. I did that combo for my little cousin's genesis last year. It really pops on the bow.


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks


----------



## shinobi3

So doing clear serving I keep running into a little problem. The end and the beginning are a little milky looking. I pull tight but no matter it's still want clear like the other serving. I use deezlins clarifier but don't clear up like I like. Any suggestions ???


----------



## markrob1

tagged


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> So doing clear serving I keep running into a little problem. The end and the beginning are a little milky looking. I pull tight but no matter it's still want clear like the other serving. I use deezlins clarifier but don't clear up like I like. Any suggestions ???


Make sure you don't wrap too many times over the tag end. It's hard to get more than 6 wraps clear by just pulling the tag end through. If you do go over more wraps, make sure you leave yourself a long enough tag so that you can pull it nice and tight as you go over itself. You always want to keep tension on the wraps that are already down so if you don't leave yourself enough to hold onto and pull tightly, it will get milky. Also when you pull your tag end, pull straight down the string and not up and out. That can pull those wraps tighter together which can help. 

There's really no trick to it other than wrap them as tightly as possible.


----------



## shinobi3

So on you loop side do about four wraps?


----------



## Huntinsker

No I do 10 or so. I just make sure to pull them tight as I'm going over the scrap piece of 3d serving that I use to pull it back under. Then I give it hell to pull the tag end nice and tight. Halo usually breaks on me doing this. It's just one of those things that takes practice. Here's a "throw away" that I made for a buddy. I had the wrong length written down so it was an inch short 

Starting wraps.








Finishing wraps.


----------



## shinobi3

That looks awesome.. I will give it a try


----------



## jameswk

Any one ever had the stribg bunch up on them at the loops after twisting and stretching once you let tension off? I'm trying to post pic of what I'm talking about but I can't....


----------



## automan26

jameswk said:


> Any one ever had the stribg bunch up on them ayt the loops after twisting and stretching once you let tension off? I'm trying to post pic of what I'm talking about but I can't....


If it's like what I posted in post 1433 I have something that might help.

Automan


----------



## jameswk

not quite auto man its the ends that just look loose and bunched up under tension I'm assuming its going to go away but i don't want to see it cause problems under the serving


----------



## jameswk

The only thought I possibly can come up with is that this was a 98.5" string and the longest one I've made to date and the strut flexed to much when I laid the strands out


----------



## jameswk

Nope I just thought about it if you'll notice I served the one loop with the pinstripe color so the silver only had a few whip stitches put in it so when I stretched it their most likely wasn't enough to hold it tight causing the silver to essentially unwind a lot...


----------



## newb1archer

Is anyone else having a hard time sourcing the spring? McMaster-Carr won't deliver to Canada and the heaviest valve spring I could find would only bring me to 140 lbs. I thought the spring would be easy to find in the form of a heavy valve spring so I forged ahead building the jig and now I'm finding the pre-tension via a spring to be my stumbling block.

Being forced to think outside the box I think I may have come up with a solution for those who can't find the proper spring. I will soon be in a position to post pictures if anyone is interested. It involves using the cheapest mechanical bathroom scale you can find (Canadian Tire - $9.99) and passing the threaded rod THROUGH the scale, not building a cradle to use the scale. With the scale I have I can put up to 300 lbs on the jig. I can preload 280 and use the other end to pull to 300 as displayed on the scale.

This adds more bulk to the jig but you have accurate tension readings through the whole range. A longer threaded rod on the end with the scale would be better to give working room for serving your loop.

Let me know if there is interest in this setup and I will post more info. I still think the spring is worth having as a more compact setup as well though. I am interested in any alternative sources of a spring close to the one needed.

Can't say enough about this thread...Awesome!


----------



## newb1archer

Out of all the people viewing this thread, there has to be someone interested in what I did so here are some pics...guess it will only let me do video so hang on...can't do that either..only a url...what does it take to be able to post pics?


----------



## newb1archer

MAde an album...see if this works.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/album.php?do=editpictures&albumid=16969


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> Nope I just thought about it if you'll notice I served the one loop with the pinstripe color so the silver only had a few whip stitches put in it so when I stretched it their most likely wasn't enough to hold it tight causing the silver to essentially unwind a lot...


That could be. I've never experienced something like that so I'm not sure what else would cause it. I've made strings over 100" before and you do have to have your strut nice and rigid. I don't think that flexing strut would cause the ends to bunch up though. It would cause some uneven strand tension but not bunching.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> That could be. I've never experienced something like that so I'm not sure what else would cause it. I've made strings over 100" before and you do have to have your strut nice and rigid. I don't think that flexing strut would cause the ends to bunch up though. It would cause some uneven strand tension but not bunching.


That's got it be it I've been trying to figure out the way I like to do the loops the best for me and in doing so I'm 99% sure it was because I didn't secure the silver tag ends well enough


----------



## jameswk

been trying to see what you've got going here this album link isn't working for me either 



newb1archer said:


> MAde an album...see if this works.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/album.php?do=editpictures&albumid=16969


----------



## newb1archer

Hmmmn...thought that would do it as the link works when I pick on it...made the album public too...maybe the album is pending approval?

Why can't I post pics?


----------



## jameswk

i was having a difficult time posting photos earlier from tapatalk i just got on my mac and posted them directly from archery talk and it worked but i couldn't post through tapatalk


newb1archer said:


> Hmmmn...thought that would do it as the link works when I pick on it...made the album public too...maybe the album is pending approval?
> 
> Why can't I post pics?


----------



## Huntinsker

newb1archer said:


> MAde an album...see if this works.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/album.php?do=editpictures&albumid=16969


Can't see the album. It says I'm not allowed for some reason. When I post pics sometimes I have to resize them before they will load into a reply. I use Windows Live Photo Gallery. Open the photo you want to load in that program and then click "Properties". That should pull down a menu that has "resize" in it. Medium and small work for me usually.

I did a little digging and found what looks to be the same spring from another website. From their FAQ page, they seem to ship to Canada. It's a little more expensive but it may make life easier. Here's the link. http://www.grainger.com/product/RAYMOND-Die-Spring-44U548?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/44U469_AS01?$smthumb$


----------



## newb1archer

Until I can get some pictures up, here is a verbal explanation of what I did. 

Envision a cheap mechanical scale that has a 5/8" hole through the middle of it. Replace your spring with the scale with the dial pointing towards the end of the jig where your crank is. Now when you pre-load, your compressing the scale as opposed to the spring, which will have a reading according to the pressure applied. Use a plywood backboard for the bottom of the scale and a piece of 1/8" aluminum plate as a big washer on the "standing" side of the scale to tighten the nut against.

This sounds all well and fine except for the fact that mechanical scales don't come with a 5/8" hole through the middle of them. I decided to invest $10.00 on this scale and see if there was a way to put a hole through it. 

At first I thought I would have to destroy the first one to find out how they come apart, but was surprised to find that needle nose pliars removing two springs from the bottom allowed the whole cover to be removed. As I suspected you can't put a hole in the middle because the linkage for the dial runs up the middle however you can put a hole off center. 

Making the hole is tricky and would require a tutorial but this description should get the idea across, and those who are mechanically inclined will figure a way to cut the hole.

The more I play with this setup, the more I like it!


----------



## newb1archer

Thanks for the replies guys! I think there must be a time delay for new members or something. I can't post pics because the image button is greyed out for me. When I pick on the links in your replies re: my album it opens up! Hopefully it just has to be approved and then will be viewable.

Does my description of what I am doing make sense?


----------



## newb1archer

Thanks for the link Huntinsker...we have an Ackland Grainger in town...I'll check availability with them.


----------



## Huntinsker

newb1archer said:


> Thanks for the replies guys! I think there must be a time delay for new members or something. I can't post pics because the image button is greyed out for me. When I pick on the links in your replies re: my album it opens up! Hopefully it just has to be approved and then will be viewable.
> 
> Does my description of what I am doing make sense?


Ahh I never though of that. I remember now hearing that you need a certain number of posts before you can add pics unless you're posting in the classifieds. Not sure what number you need to hit though.


----------



## Huntinsker

Your description makes sense but like you, I'm not sure how you'd drill the hole.


----------



## newb1archer

I've already done it! The pictures will show the setup, and if interested I can make a tutorial of how I got the hole through the scale. Using this scale...
http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/starfrit-balance-mechnical-scale-0638744p.html

Turn the scale over.
Using needle nose pliers release the two springs that are holding the cover to the bottom.
Sandwiching the scale with your hands turn it right side up.
Remove the cover and turn it over beside the bottom of the scale.
Observe the inner workings.
Find a spot where you can drill a 5/8" hole through the bottom.
Reattach the top (used paper clips to hook the springs back up)
Turn upside down and drill the 5/8" hole through the top by drilling through the hole you just made in the bottom.
Cut a piece of plywood with a corresponding hole for the bottom.
Cut a 1/8" piece of aluminum (3" x 3") with 5/8" hole in middle for the top to tighten the nut against.
Make sure you clean all metal filings from the inner workings of the scale.
Assemble the whole thing on the jig and apply some pressure to hold it in position.
...a picture is worth a thousand words...


----------



## txarcher1

newb1archer said:


> Is anyone else having a hard time sourcing the spring? McMaster-Carr won't deliver to Canada and the heaviest valve spring I could find would only bring me to 140 lbs. I thought the spring would be easy to find in the form of a heavy valve spring so I forged ahead building the jig and now I'm finding the pre-tension via a spring to be my stumbling block.
> 
> Being forced to think outside the box I think I may have come up with a solution for those who can't find the proper spring. I will soon be in a position to post pictures if anyone is interested. It involves using the cheapest mechanical bathroom scale you can find (Canadian Tire - $9.99) and passing the threaded rod THROUGH the scale, not building a cradle to use the scale. With the scale I have I can put up to 300 lbs on the jig. I can preload 280 and use the other end to pull to 300 as displayed on the scale.
> 
> This adds more bulk to the jig but you have accurate tension readings through the whole range. A longer threaded rod on the end with the scale would be better to give working room for serving your loop.
> 
> Let me know if there is interest in this setup and I will post more info. I still think the spring is worth having as a more compact setup as well though. I am interested in any alternative sources of a spring close to the one needed.
> 
> Can't say enough about this thread...Awesome!


I used a valve spring from a chevy Big Block 454. 345lbs.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

After several requests of the video I made, I figured what the heck and posted the link below. Keep in mind that this is just "my technique" and have had excellent success with it. I haven't had the first issue with peep twist, creep, or stretch. I use Brownell Fury material with all the strings I build. Also keep in mind that I shot this video with my hand held camcorder I use for filming my hunts. It's by no means professional material..hahaha. 

I simply put it together for a few friends that wanted some insight on how to build a pinstripe string. I thought it turned out pretty good actually. I understand there are many different ways that pinstripes can be built, it just so happens that this is the way I build mine. I hope it helps you out......just a little bit anyways.... Thanks, Brian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


----------



## automan26

jameswk said:


> View attachment 2107071
> 
> 
> not quite auto man its the ends that just look loose and bunched up under tension I'm assuming its going to go away but i don't want to see it cause problems under the serving


You may still have a similar problem to what I had, but in a different place. I went crazy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong to cause my bunching up issues, but I finally found the problem. I had been laying out the strands and burnishing the bundles correctly, then I would add a few twists and if the colors all laid together properly I would keep on twisting and burnish the string after twisting. I felt that would be enough but for me it wasn't. On the last two strings I built I put in about 5 twists then chased the colors even though they appeared to be laying correctly. About half way through the twisting process I chased the colors again, finished twisting then burnished the string at the end. When I let off on the tension everything laid perfectly and the bumps did not appear. I found that, even though the string appeared to be twisting up perfectly, the color bundles still needed a bit of help to lay correctly. Your problem may be similar to mine. Perhaps some of the colors are rolling over when you are serving the loop, or maybe you should chase the colors all the way to the end loop serving after adding a few twists. (Maybe?)

Automan


----------



## jameswk

automan26 said:


> You may still have a similar problem to what I had, but in a different place. I went crazy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong to cause my bunching up issues, but I finally found the problem. I had been laying out the strands and burnishing the bundles correctly, then I would add a few twists and if the colors all laid together properly I would keep on twisting and burnish the string after twisting. I felt that would be enough but for me it wasn't. On the last two strings I built I put in about 5 twists then chased the colors even though they appeared to be laying correctly. About half way through the twisting process I chased the colors again, finished twisting then burnished the string at the end. When I let off on the tension everything laid perfectly and the bumps did not appear. I found that, even though the string appeared to be twisting up perfectly, the color bundles still needed a bit of help to lay correctly. Your problem may be similar to mine. Perhaps some of the colors are rolling over when you are serving the loop, or maybe you should chase the colors all the way to the end loop serving after adding a few twists. (Maybe?)
> 
> Automan


That very well could be because I noticed that the strands laid perfect and I had heard a few people saying that chasing isn't the best thing for the string so I didn't run a scrap piece to seperate my color bundles because I bad finally gotten my pin stripe to lay just like I want it.... Thanks automan


----------



## mattpse

2X_LUNG said:


> After several requests of the video I made, I figured what the heck and posted the link below. Keep in mind that this is just "my technique" and have had excellent success with it. I haven't had the first issue with peep twist, creep, or stretch. I use Brownell Fury material with all the strings I build. Also keep in mind that I shot this video with my hand held camcorder I use for filming my hunts. It's by no means professional material..hahaha.
> 
> I simply put it together for a few friends that wanted some insight on how to build a pinstripe string. I thought it turned out pretty good actually. I understand there are many different ways that pinstripes can be built, it just so happens that this is the way I build mine. I hope it helps you out......just a little bit anyways.... Thanks, Brian.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


I have your video bookmarked. Thanks for the info Brian.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Anytime Matt! It should help a little anyway. Haha


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> After several requests of the video I made, I figured what the heck and posted the link below. Keep in mind that this is just "my technique" and have had excellent success with it. I haven't had the first issue with peep twist, creep, or stretch. I use Brownell Fury material with all the strings I build. Also keep in mind that I shot this video with my hand held camcorder I use for filming my hunts. It's by no means professional material..hahaha.
> 
> I simply put it together for a few friends that wanted some insight on how to build a pinstripe string. I thought it turned out pretty good actually. I understand there are many different ways that pinstripes can be built, it just so happens that this is the way I build mine. I hope it helps you out......just a little bit anyways.... Thanks, Brian.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


Nice video. What diameter spectra did you use to burnish the string? I use a scrap of .021 62xs to burnish mine. It works well.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I use the 40lb Chinese braided line. Its comparable to .021 I'd say


----------



## Unk Bond

Hello

:set1_CHAPLIN3: And may I say
Outstanding video presentation.
That has a very nice video clarity and vocal clarity explanation .
Really enjoyed watching. [ Later


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thanks so much, unk bond! It was a spur of the moment deal. Lol


----------



## newb1archer

I suspected a valve spring from an old big block would be pretty close. I'll keep an eye out for a 454 spring as well.

Thanks Txarcher1!


----------



## newb1archer

*Pictures For Mechanical Spring Scale Use...Replaces Spring*

The Scale...









Installed...


----------



## newb1archer

*Couple more pics...*


----------



## shinobi3

Very cool


----------



## Huntinsker

Cool. I like seeing people thinking out of the box.


----------



## SamT

Making a new box! LOL


----------



## jameswk

newb1archer said:


> View attachment 2108022
> 
> 
> View attachment 2108023
> 
> 
> View attachment 2108024
> 
> 
> View attachment 2108026


anything to get the job done... i like it


----------



## newb1archer

*Scale...A few obvious changes if using*

Waiting for BCY-X and 452X to arrive so I can try this rig out for the first time.
Got a PSE Surge NEEDING NEW Strings.
In the mean time I keep tweaking...

Turned the scale around for viewing while pulling from non spring end.









Added wings to my nut on the other end for pulling.









Lengthened my rod from 8" to 12"...this was a big help. 









Lots more room for serving loops.


----------



## Bownut400

newb1archer said:


> Waiting for BCY-X and 452X to arrive so I can try this rig out for the first time.
> Got a PSE Surge NEEDING NEW Strings.
> In the mean time I keep tweaking...
> 
> Turned the scale around for viewing while pulling from non spring end.
> 
> View attachment 2109032
> 
> 
> Added wings to my nut on the other end for pulling.
> 
> View attachment 2109034
> 
> 
> Lengthened my rod from 8" to 12"...this was a big help.
> 
> View attachment 2109036
> 
> 
> Lots more room for serving loops.
> 
> View attachment 2109038



I love this set up, using what you have at it's finest and it works..


----------



## newb1archer

*4 Modern Valve Springs You Can Get Anywhere...How To Use Them*

So at the risk of beating this subject to death...

Back to springS!









If you like your springs...









You can keep your springs!









4 Modern Valve springs available anywhere.









For calibrating...


----------



## newb1archer

*...The rest of the pics*

Calibrate with scale...









Calibrate closeup...








Installed...








Could easily make a calibration scale here...








That's it!








If your worried about a spring escaping, make both plates with the screws and rubber hose.

These springs went to 320 lbs on my scale (rated for 300...bottoms at 320) and I probably 
could have gotten to 400 if I had a scale going that high, at least the sought after 350 for sure!


----------



## Huntinsker

Pretty cool newb. Necessity is the mother of invention and you just proved it.


----------



## newb1archer

My next project Huntinsker! Glad I found this...I was wondering how I was going to deal with loose tag ends.

My thread order cleared customs finally...should be hounding you guys next week for help on "why this is doing that".

Just when I was thinking of ordering a set of strings for my bow I came across this thread and knew immediately what I HAD to do!

Thanks for making that decision so easy with your complete guide!



Huntinsker said:


> Here are my string clamps. Parts first.
> A: 2- 1/4" wing nuts
> B: 2 - 1/4" washers
> C: 4 - 1/4" Fender washers
> D: 4 - 5/16" x 1 1/4" neoprene washers
> E: 2 - 8" x 1/4" all thread rod
> F: 6 - 1/4" coarse thread nuts to fit all thread rod
> G: 2 - 1/4" lock nuts
> H: 2 - 1/4" x 3/4" bolt
> I: 2 - 1/4" x 1 1/2" bolt
> J: 4 - 1" corner braces
> K: 2 - 3/8" super strut flat washers
> L: 2 - 1/4" super strut spring nut to fit 1 5/8" super strut
> 
> View attachment 1749976
> 
> 
> The only thing you need to know for assembly is that I had to drill out the holes in the corner brackets with a 1/4" drill bit to fit the 1/4" all thread rod and bolts and I used pliers to take the spring off the super strut spring nuts.
> 
> View attachment 1749988
> View attachment 1749990


----------



## Huntinsker

No problem. I'm glad we could help out. Can't wait to see some of your threads.


----------



## newb1archer

When you insert the golf tees, do you do it at both ends? If when twisted, it twists from the center out, I would think the golf tees are at both ends but I can't tell from your pics. Probably answered somewhere in this thread...but it's so long!



Huntinsker said:


> 6: Use the other tag end to wrap the bundle together and back serve 4-5 wraps. (Make sure if the jig post is on your left side, like in the picture, that you wrap over the bundles, away from you to finish with the second tag end. If the jig post is still on your right, you would wrap over the bundle toward you.)
> View attachment 1728656
> View attachment 1728656
> 
> 
> 7: Finish other end in the same way. *Note*: my tag ends are different colors because this is a 22 strand string (11 strands of each color). If you were building a 24 strand string (12 strands of each color) they would be the same color.
> 
> 8: Insert golf tees between the bundles and halves of each color strand, to make an “X” with the tees. Wrap a spare piece of serving (I like to use .021 62xs) or scrap piece of string material around ½ of one color.
> View attachment 1728659
> 
> 
> 9: Pull tight and run up and down the string once to remove excess wax from the threads. Do this to each half of each color. This prevents the colors from bleeding into one another and also helps prevent serving separation. (This is a ball of wax from one time down that half bundle.)
> View attachment 1728661
> 
> 
> 10: Remove the golf tees and tension the string to 300lbs and let stretch for at least 20 minutes to let the strands equalize within the bundles. (I like 350lbs) (This is my “jig” to check what weight I’m at. The notch is 300lbs and the whole thing is 100lbs.)
> View attachment 1728664


----------



## jameswk

Yes both ends


----------



## newb1archer

Thanks Much!


----------



## newb1archer

Wow! My first set of strings and I have the same thing on my 90" string and my 35" cable. I was going to suggest as 48archer did that mine are all black, also, therefore no dye issue, however I did construct them as though they were two colors because that is how the guide explained it and I want to practice for two colors.

I am wondering if something is taking place during the laying out of the two separate sets of thread (2 x 6 loops) that causes one to contract more when we relax the cable. Like yours, mine go away under tension. 

I am also wondering if it would be ok to relax the jig and retension to say 30 lbs BEFORE serving the loops with the tag ends so all threads might be closer to being under the same tension before doing the loops.

Glad I came across this discussion!



automan26 said:


> I have had this issue using both 452x and Fury. I believe that there is some issue with the way the different color bundles relax. I have often observed that the bumps are nearly always confined to one of the color bundles only. Possibly the different thickness of one color over another, due to the types of die and wax used, causes an uneven relaxation of the different colors when the tension is removed from the string, but that is only a guess. If you have a different theory I would be all ears. The problem is merely cosmetic and the string looks and functions perfectly when installed on the bow, but if I ever sell a set of strings without installing them myself, those bumps might turn someone off.
> Automan


----------



## newb1archer

> I have been having a problem on the last several sets of strings I have built which has been driving me crazy. No matter how carefully I assembled the string and no matter how much attention I gave to detail, when I would relax my finished string on the jig I found that small bumps were appearing in the strings. The strings performed flawlessly and once under very slight tension the bumps totally disappeared. It was purely a cosmetic issue, but I was at a loss as to what was causing this problem. Yesterday I figured it out. In a effort to make a smooth round string I would install about 10-15 twists, then burnish the string hoping that the string would stay tight and round with good color separation throughout the build. After twisting the string several more times I would burnish it again and finally, when totally finished I would give it a final burnishing. I discovered yesterday that burnishing the string too early in the twisting process was causing the bumps to appear after stretching and relaxing. All that burnishing was compressing the color bundles too tightly, not allowing enough room for contraction after relaxing the tension. I was actually compressing my strands and getting the string too tight internally.
> 
> Yesterday I waited until all the twists were installed before burnishing and found that the bump problem had vanished. I had been warned about over burnishing, but I had no idea that by being too careful to produce a perfectly round and smooth string I was over burnishing.
> 
> Well, live and learn I guess. Hopefully this will help others avoid the problems I got myself into.
> 
> Automan


In hindsight, I'm sure I way over burnished when I should have been dewaxing the four bundles with one pass.


----------



## Jimmy Sticks

I know somewhere in this thread guys are using clear spider wire or something for serving. Can someone tell me what poundage would be equal to .014 for the end serving and what poundage for a 62xs for center serving. Thanks


----------



## automan26

newb1archer said:


> In hindsight, I'm sure I way over burnished when I should have been dewaxing the four bundles with one pass.


Over-burnishing can cause the problem, but even more important--make sure that you chase your colors well. Even when they look like they are laying correctly, they may still have a twist or kink that does not show up at first glance. Don't be afraid to chase the colors early in the twisting process and again half way through.

Automan


----------



## automan26

Jimmy Sticks said:


> I know somewhere in this thread guys are using clear spider wire or something for serving. Can someone tell me what poundage would be equal to .014 for the end serving and what poundage for a 62xs for center serving. Thanks


I threw a caliper across some yellow 80# Spiderwire Stealth and it measured somewhere between .016"-.019". I also measured some 65# Spiderwire Stealth and it measured around .010"-.012". Since the line is soft, it is very hard to get a precise measurement. I think that the 80# would come close to .018" 62xs.

Automan


----------



## Jimmy Sticks

I need to use a clear or is it the yellow you mentioned?


----------



## automan26

Jimmy Sticks said:


> I need to use a clear or is it the yellow you mentioned?


Yellow is all I have. I use the 50# Chinese clear for what little clear work I do.

Automan


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I use 30# clear Chinese


----------



## bucco921

2X_LUNG said:


> I use 30# clear Chinese


Anybody have a link to this chinese line everyone is using?


----------



## Huntinsker

Jimmy Sticks said:


> I know somewhere in this thread guys are using clear spider wire or something for serving. Can someone tell me what poundage would be equal to .014 for the end serving and what poundage for a 62xs for center serving. Thanks


If you go on websites like Cabela's, they list the poundage and the diameter of each of the different test lines. Typically 50-60lbs is equivalent to a .014 diameter and 100lb is about .020.


----------



## Jimmy Sticks

that help a bunch thanks


----------



## lunghit

Ok after building tons of great strings I ran into a little problem with uneven twist rate throughout the length of a buss cable. I was making a solid color with a pin so maybe this has something to do with it. I laid out my first solid color using 12 strands, made the tag end loop then removed and set aside. Next I laid out 8 strands of the solid color with 4 strands of the pin on top of that then made the next tag end loop. I put the first cable on top of the second and made the final end loop using the pin tags. So this buss cable was laid out 12-4-8. Using the golf tees I separated the colors and twisted 10 times. Removed the tees and finished twisting. The twist rate at the tension end of the jig was much higher than the other end. I have made plenty of pin stripes before so this has me wondering what went wrong.


----------



## lunghit

lunghit said:


> Ok after building tons of great strings I ran into a little problem with uneven twist rate throughout the length of a buss cable. I was making a solid color with a pin so maybe this has something to do with it. I laid out my first solid color using 12 strands, made the tag end loop then removed and set aside. Next I laid out 8 strands of the solid color with 4 strands of the pin on top of that then made the next tag end loop. I put the first cable on top of the second and made the final end loop using the pin tags. So this buss cable was laid out 12-4-8. Using the golf tees I separated the colors and twisted 10 times. Removed the tees and finished twisting. The twist rate at the tension end of the jig was much higher than the other end. I have made plenty of pin stripes before so this has me wondering what went wrong.


Well after all that typing I figured out what went wrong lol. Just a dumb mistake and I was not thinking. I ended up keeping the tees in the yoke end for all the twists instead of removing them after the first 10 twist. Obviously this really changed the twist rate in the cable.


----------



## jameswk

I use even numbers when I lay out solid color pins 11-2-11 that doing a 12-4-8 may make the twist rate uneven as well or at least appear that way.


----------



## lunghit

jameswk said:


> I use even numbers when I lay out solid color pins 11-2-11 that doing a 12-4-8 may make the twist rate uneven as well or at least appear that way.


That might be the best way to go. I just wanted the pin to stick out more so I wanted to use 4 wraps.


----------



## jameswk

lunghit said:


> That might be the best way to go. I just wanted the pin to stick out more so I wanted to use 4 wraps.


Then go 10-4-10


----------



## lunghit

So if I am making a solid color buss cable with a pin stripe using the 10-4-10 one yoke will have 10 strands and the other 14. Is this ok or am I missing something?


----------



## jameswk

lunghit said:


> So if I am making a solid color buss cable with a pin stripe using the 10-4-10 one yoke will have 10 strands and the other 14. Is this ok or am I missing something?


I responded on the pin stripe forum but you can get 12 and 12 use your pin stripe to close the main end and each color tag ends to close your yoke loops


----------



## Huntinsker

For a 4 strand single pinstripe, I'd lay out 12-8-4. 12-4-8 would cause you to do more chasing to pull both halves of the pin to the same side for a single stripe. If you lay the pinstripe on top, it'll come together without pulling one side through the middle.


----------



## jameswk

I don't think he's looking for single pin other wise the best way would be 11-2-11


----------



## lunghit

jameswk said:


> I responded on the pin stripe forum but you can get 12 and 12 use your pin stripe to close the main end and each color tag ends to close your yoke loops


Now wont you have more than 3 sets of tags by doing this? Im trying to keep it at 3 tag ends.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> For a 4 strand single pinstripe, I'd lay out 12-8-4. 12-4-8 would cause you to do more chasing to pull both halves of the pin to the same side for a single stripe. If you lay the pinstripe on top, it'll come together without pulling one side through the middle.


How would you separate colors to twist? I always use tees to hold the solids above and below and the pins to the side.


----------



## jameswk

lunghit said:


> Now wont you have more than 3 sets of tags by doing this? Im trying to keep it at 3 tag ends.


Nope you'll still be left with 3 tags


----------



## lunghit

jameswk said:


> Nope you'll still be left with 3 tags


I think I understand how you do it. I use a 2 post jig and remove and set aside the first set of 12 strands after I make the yoke end loop. Then I wrap the next set of threads including the pin and make the next yoke end loop. I then place the first 12 strands on top of the set with the pin and use the pin tags to make the cam end loop.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> For a 4 strand single pinstripe, I'd lay out 12-8-4. 12-4-8 would cause you to do more chasing to pull both halves of the pin to the same side for a single stripe. If you lay the pinstripe on top, it'll come together without pulling one side through the middle.


Ok I think I see how its done. Really no need to separate the pin like you would with a 2 color string with pin. For this buss cable after burnishing just separate in half then twist like a 2 color string and the pin will naturally wrap around.


----------



## jameswk

lunghit said:


> I think I understand how you do it. I use a 2 post jig and remove and set aside the first set of 12 strands after I make the yoke end loop. Then I wrap the next set of threads including the pin and make the next yoke end loop. I then place the first 12 strands on top of the set with the pin and use the pin tags to make the cam end loop.


You should not have to remove from the jig but if that works for you and you can get even strand tension go with it...

If you look at huntskiners diagram of doing a cable you can do 2 less of each color which is one less pass around the jig and add in place of them your pinstripe and instead of closing your end with scrap use your pinstripe tags to close the other end...


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Ok I think I see how its done. Really no need to separate the pin like you would with a 2 color string with pin. For this buss cable after burnishing just separate in half then twist like a 2 color string and the pin will naturally wrap around.


Maybe I'm not getting what you want your pinstripe to look like. Do you want 2 strands on each side of the cable or 1 single pinstripe of 4 strands? If you want 1 single pinstripe, just put a tee between the pinstripe and the rest of the bundle. So you'd have 4 pinstripe strands above and then the rest of the single color below. You don't need to separate evenly when the colors are the same.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> Maybe I'm not getting what you want your pinstripe to look like. Do you want 2 strands on each side of the cable or 1 single pinstripe of 4 strands? If you want 1 single pinstripe, just put a tee between the pinstripe and the rest of the bundle. So you'd have 4 pinstripe strands above and then the rest of the single color below. You don't need to separate evenly when the colors are the same.


That wouldn't be a pin stripe that would be a 2 color string just a lot less of the one color. To me I think He just wants a regular pinstripe with 2strands down each color only each color happens to be the same color


----------



## jameswk

Like this if I'm not mistaken


----------



## lunghit

Ok here is a 24 strand buss I just made. I laid it out 12-8-4 and it came out perfect. I appreciate all the tips from you guys on here.


----------



## jameswk

Yeah that's a 2 color string technically looks good. Though


----------



## newb1archer

*Which materials are you having the best results with?*

Great looking strings above guys! Makes me want to make two or more colored strings. 

Which brings me to my question/poll. 

While making my jig I quickly placed an order for 1/8 BCY-X and 1/8 452X, both black plus server and roll of BCY #62XS.021 braided serving silver/black. Made my first set in black and out of 452X. Seemed to come out fine to me, have them on the bow and all tuned up. I started with 452X because I thought I read reference to BCY-X being slipperier and slightly harder to work with.

Now that I have made a set out of 452X and am happy with them, I still want to gravitate to the BCY-X for my next order in colors because the BCY-X material looks so much better on close examination of the two materials. It looks shiner, tougher and just seems more durable. And for some reason it's a dollar cheaper.

I know I should be building a set out of BCY-X first but I would like to get an order under way for some colors and more serving materials.

Any thoughts or suggestions on the pros/cons of the two materials and what you have settled in on as your building material? I assume most gravitate to one material so you can have an assortment but keep costs down at the same time.

Anyway, I look forward to any thoughts on this topic.


----------



## redyak3

Great to see this awesome thread still going strong. Haven't needed to make a set going on a year now, gotta shake off the rust and make some new threads for the DXT and Reezen. I remember Red Fury had "bleeding" issues, has that been resolved? Aloha all and have a Blessed Christmas and holiday season.


----------



## Fiferguy

Finally finished the string jig. It's ugly, but it'll work. 

IMG_1249 by fiferguy, on Flickr
IMG_1250 by fiferguy, on Flickr


----------



## jameswk

Fiferguy said:


> Finally finished the string jig. It's ugly, but it'll work.
> 
> IMG_1249 by fiferguy, on Flickr
> IMG_1250 by fiferguy, on Flickr


Looks pretty good to me 👍


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Here is a set I made for my redone D340


----------



## shinobi3

Very nice.. Did you put Barnsdale limbs on it


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Looks awesome!!


----------



## jameswk

Those threads are awesome and that finish is sick!


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Yes, those are the barnesdales. And thank you. For some reason the camera really likes the blue.


----------



## ArcheryAdiction

Hey guys, When you guys are finishing up with the tag ends on the end loops, and you back serve, after you pull tight and have the string hanging out, do you guys burn the ends or just cut off.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Just cut it off flush


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> That wouldn't be a pin stripe that would be a 2 color string just a lot less of the one color. To me I think He just wants a regular pinstripe with 2strands down each color only each color happens to be the same color


A single stripe would be a pinstripe as well. I personally prefer them if you're going to do a single primary color and a single colored pin. Here's a string that I was making for a buddy of mine. He wanted a flo green string with a double black pinstripe. It looked like this.









I didn't care for it so I took that pic and sent it to him. He agreed so I made this one instead. Single pin, flo green primary.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Here's a single pin I did....actually two


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> A single stripe would be a pinstripe as well. I personally prefer them if you're going to do a single primary color and a single colored pin. Here's a string that I was making for a buddy of mine. He wanted a flo green string with a double black pinstripe. It looked like this.
> 
> View attachment 2117437
> 
> 
> I didn't care for it so I took that pic and sent it to him. He agreed so I made this one instead. Single pin, flo green primary.
> 
> View attachment 2117441


Had you made that bottom pic with 2 different colors the pinstripe color would not lay between each color. Where as the top photo would... Making it the same as a 2 color with pin... So yes it looks like a pinstripe but imo not a pinstripe but a 2 color string with fewer strands of one color


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## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> Here's a single pin I did....actually two


I like using 2 strands as well to me a pinstripe is a "pin" stripe using 4 strands makes it a bit wide for my taste


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## 2X_LUNG

Here's a few 4 strands...


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## 2X_LUNG

The four strands aren't too bad actually


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## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> The four strands aren't too bad actually


Most definitely some awesome looking strings really cool color combos... You using X only or a mix of different things? I do like a couple of those combos with the wider pin it accents a bit more I do have to say that!


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## 2X_LUNG

Those are all fury material. I love the stuff. Only downfall is the over abundance of wax!!








Another favorite too. Hehe


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## jameswk

I've got to breakdown and get some fury in... They make some sick looking threads I'm finding X to be a bit rougher then I like... When I first started making them I was way over working the material to the point it was loosing color and it wad fraying. All the fury stuff I see looks amazing and shiny and round gotta get some in my shop


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## 2X_LUNG

Yes, it finishes so much nicer than x. The wet look is just plain awesome


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## jameswk

I agree I drove myself nuts trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and finally came to the conclusion its not me its the X...


----------



## jameswk




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## jameswk

Flo yellow bcy 3d becomes transparent like white does.


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## 2X_LUNG

Looks great. The flo green 3d is same way


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## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> Here's a single pin I did....actually two


Nice 2X, how does the Red Fury behave. IIRC awhile back, Ray Knight had some concerns about the red "bleeding" into the next color. Wondering if you had any problems with it. Looks pretty tight to me.
Thanks


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## shinobi3

If you use a red on a lighter color it will bleed a little but not to bad


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## redyak3

Looking good ^^^ Thanks!!!
Thinking on going Black and Red with a yellow pin in Fury this time instead of X.


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## bowtecha

Tagggggggeeeeedddddd great post...


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## redyak3

Lotsa nice pics of shiny new sets, thought I'd post a pic of the last set I made using Fury, Angel Majesty and Chinese spectra fishing line serving. These strings are going on a year or so and countless arrows. I must say the serving has done well, even at the roller guard. Angel Majesty held up nicely right where the cam "munches" the string. Sorry for the pic quality...


----------



## jameswk

redyak3 said:


> Lotsa nice pics of shiny new sets, thought I'd post a pic of the last set I made using Fury, Angel Majesty and Chinese spectra fishing line serving. These strings are going on a year or so and countless arrows. I must say the serving has done well, even at the roller guard. Angel Majesty held up nicely right where the cam "munches" the string. Sorry for the pic quality...
> View attachment 2117828


Yeah looks like it holds up good...!

And hey is it just the pic or is your timing a little off? Looks like the cable is hugging one side of the timing window? Could just be angle of photo


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## 2X_LUNG

Red, is the Chinese on string? I've never tried on cables bc of the hard angles n such. I need to try it. Does it separate easy?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I've had great luck using it for string serving


----------



## redyak3

jameswk said:


> Yeah looks like it holds up good...!
> 
> And hey is it just the pic or is your timing a little off? Looks like the cable is hugging one side of the timing window? Could just be angle of photo


Camera angle


----------



## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> Red, is the Chinese on string? I've never tried on cables bc of the hard angles n such. I need to try it. Does it separate easy?


Yup, string and cable. Gotta find some red for the next set. Still have a lot of orange...really like your flo grn, blk, and orange.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thanks! What poundage did you use? I go 30. Just curious


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## jameswk

redyak3 said:


> Camera angle


I thought most likely... great job!


----------



## redyak3

Thanks jameswk!!!
60lb 2X...
Here's a pic at the roller guard, a lot of wear but no separation...


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## 2X_LUNG

Man that's heavy stuff. Lol


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## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> Man that's heavy stuff. Lol


Weird how the strand seemed to have "flattened" and discolored at that one spot. The line sizes out @ 0.40 what does the 30# spec out at?


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## 2X_LUNG

I've never put calipers to it. It looks real close to .014 halo and lays great.


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## redyak3

Thanks, I was using the 3D @ .016. maybe it was an error in application but it didn't hold up nearly as well as this thick stuff. IIRC, orange was only available in 60# spools by the ebay vendor....plus it was cheap...:embara:


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## jameswk

3d won't hold up as great it's a twisted product compared to the braided stuff you used


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## redyak3

jameswk said:


> 3d won't hold up as great it's a twisted product compared to the braided stuff you used


Thanks, 
just googled a mm to inches converter and .40mm comes out to 0.0157 so I guess it aint that far off. Still would like to try some 30# stuff.


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## shinobi3

I keep hearing about this fishing braid I guess I will have to try some out


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## jameswk

How does everyone get it onto a spool to use in serving jig?


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## 2X_LUNG

A cordless drill and an empty spool


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## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Here's a single pin I did....actually two



I really like that single pin on the red. I made one like that for my friend's black carbon element and am probably going to do the same on a frankenbow I'm cooking up after it gets back from Ultimate Finishers for powder coat. I also made a black with a single red pin for a bowtech carbon overdrive and that came out really cool too. I really like the single pinstripe look.


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## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> I really like that single pin on the red. I made one like that for my friend's black carbon element and am probably going to do the same on a frankenbow I'm cooking up after it gets back from Ultimate Finishers for powder coat. I also made a black with a single red pin for a bowtech carbon overdrive and that came out really cool too. I really like the single pinstripe look.


I'm like an hour from them... Have you had work done there before? Do you have to strip the bow or Do they sand blast it there?


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## NoDeerInIowa

jameswk said:


> I'm like an hour from them... Have you had work done there before? Do you have to strip the bow or Do they sand blast it there?


They strip.


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## jameswk

Cost extra or part of the price?


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## NoDeerInIowa

Included


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## jameswk

So sweet!!! Can't wait to send a bow or 2 to them


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## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> I'm like an hour from them... Have you had work done there before? Do you have to strip the bow or Do they sand blast it there?


It'll be my first. I've heard and seen nothing but good things from them so I'm excited to get it sent out.


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## jazzydaddy

You need to puplish a DVD about all your string making tricks for everyone


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## 2X_LUNG

I made a simple pinstripe video. Feel free to check it out on YouTube


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## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> It'll be my first. I've heard and seen nothing but good things from them so I'm excited to get it sent out.


Yeah I've heard the same good things and being from central New York as well really peaked my interest we had sent a bow out to a place to have it done and they dipped it over the camo already on it... Not impressed.. So I'm definitely going to be sending them some things to get done!


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## Bownut400

Thank Brian, here is the link to your great video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


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## 2X_LUNG

Thanks for posting it, Butch!


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## caspian

jameswk said:


> How does everyone get it onto a spool to use in serving jig?


like this:


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## jameswk

caspian said:


> like this:


I like that. Do they spool fairly nicely?


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## GrayTech

jameswk said:


> How does everyone get it onto a spool to use in serving jig?


Drilll works. I also use the thread spoiler on my industrial sewing machine. You have to keep a reasonable tension too, or it digs in while serving.


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## GrayTech

GrayTech said:


> Drilll works. I also use the thread spoiler on my industrial sewing machine. You have to keep a reasonable tension too, or it digs in while serving.


Thread spooler. Damned auto correct.....


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## michaelgentry87

subscribed


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## caspian

jameswk said:


> I like that. Do they spool fairly nicely?


it does the job quite adequately for my needs. the spool holder was about $8 delivered off eBay, and the strange shaped bit of metal I tapped to hold it I found in a drawer somewhere.

the drill can also be clamped down if required, by by the time I control the trigger with my left thumb, it doesn't seem necessary so far.

I run the line as a slight z-bend between a couple of fingers on the glove for some additional drag to get a nice tight spool.


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## jameswk

caspian said:


> it does the job quite adequately for my needs. the spool holder was about $8 delivered off eBay, and the strange shaped bit of metal I tapped to hold it I found in a drawer somewhere.
> 
> the drill can also be clamped down if required, by by the time I control the trigger with my left thumb, it doesn't seem necessary so far.
> 
> I run the line as a slight z-bend between a couple of fingers on the glove for some additional drag to get a nice tight spool.


Very cool I like the idea of buying in bulk and spooling onto the smaller rolls


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## caspian

I think it's worth it. at the cost of good spectra serving it does not take very long to recover your costs, and you can use superior materials without a second thought. that Spectra Extreme Braid is very tough stuff, to the point where I've had recurvers ask for something "softer" for centre servings, as it was chewing their tabs up.


----------



## jameswk

caspian said:


> I think it's worth it. at the cost of good spectra serving it does not take very long to recover your costs, and you can use superior materials without a second thought. that Spectra Extreme Braid is very tough stuff, to the point where I've had recurvers ask for something "softer" for centre servings, as it was chewing their tabs up.


No kidding that's insane I'm gonna look into these lines everyone's using most definitely


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## skullerud

I'm not 100% sure what this Chinese spectra is, or at least not sure enough to go and order it. 
Would someone please post a link to it, as a reference?


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## budalcorn45

Ok so I am thinking about getting into string and cable building for myself and my hunting buddies. The questions I have are:
1. Should I purchase a less expensive string product to get started such as 450+ or 8125 knowing that it will not be perfect in my first few tries, or does a 1/4lb spool of 452x or bcy x have enough material to have a few "wall of shame" strings along with some good ones?
2. How are guys going about getting tension on their strings while serving. I have read this thread almost entirely and still don't know what I am going to use to tension the string. 
3. How long does it take to build a good set of strings and cables once you get it down? 

There have been some beautiful displays of craftsmanship on here. I really appreciate all of the info and knowledge from this group!


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## Huntinsker

budalcorn45 said:


> Ok so I am thinking about getting into string and cable building for myself and my hunting buddies. The questions I have are:
> 1. Should I purchase a less expensive string product to get started such as 450+ or 8125 knowing that it will not be perfect in my first few tries, or does a 1/4lb spool of 452x or bcy x have enough material to have a few "wall of shame" strings along with some good ones?
> 2. How are guys going about getting tension on their strings while serving. I have read this thread almost entirely and still don't know what I am going to use to tension the string.
> 3. How long does it take to build a good set of strings and cables once you get it down?
> 
> There have been some beautiful displays of craftsmanship on here. I really appreciate all of the info and knowledge from this group!


1. I wouldn't bother with a cheaper material. If you follow the thread and the updated information that everyone has contributed, you won't have many "throw-away" sets. My first set was a good set without peep rotation or creep. Just take your time and it'll all work out.

2. Most of us use a jig very similar to what I showed in the beginning of the thread. The spring that I put in the parts list will allow you to get your strings over 300lbs pretty easily. We just crank the tension up on our various jigs and start serving.

3. How long it takes depends on how fast you work. I tend to work pretty slowly compared to others. Not that I can't move quicker but I just like to take my time and make things as perfect as possible. I don't build high volume so it don't really need speed and because I only have room for the one jig, I can't move too fast. The fastest I've made a set from start to finish was about 16hrs but I give them a healthy "relax" time after the initial stretch and then again after serving before I do the final measurement. A lot of guys can get a whole set done in a matter of a couple hours give or take.


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## budalcorn45

If someone had to estimate...on average, about how many two color string and cable sets could you get out of a green spool and a black spool (just an example) of 452x @ 1/4lb?


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## SamT

Depends on the length and strand count of the string. 

Mathematically speaking, 1lb spool of 452X is approx. 8800ft/lb so 1/4 lb would be about 2200ft. So an example string that's 5ft with 24 count strands would be 120ft of string material, plus 5-10% waste equals about 130ft. 2200ft (1/4lb) divided by 130 equals about 16 built strings, or so. Making two color strings would double the number of built strings to 32. Roughly speaking.


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## budalcorn45

Thanks! That is the math I needed in order to convince the boss lady! This looks like a super fun hobby! Thanks for everyone's help.


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## budalcorn45

Is there a good spot to buy supplies at? Also, what should I purchase for serving thread? I have read that 62x is good for center serving, but what thread should I use for the end loops etc?


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## Huntinsker

60x is where I get my BCY materials. I get my Brownell materials from Ray Knight. This time of year 60x usually runs some sales on their website. I'm not sure if they're still running one on material or not but I got some stuff a couple weeks ago for 15% off. 

As far as what materials........get some good string material like 452x, X or Fury. Working with a good material will only make the learning curve easier. For serving, I like .021 62xs for center serving and 3D and Halo for end servings depending on the bow. I haven't tried the Chinese Spectra that a lot of other guys are using but I have no doubt that it's good stuff if they all like it. I have used braided fishing line that is also braided spectra so it should be basically the same thing. Halo serving is also braided spectra. If you go through the thread you'll see links to the Chinese spectra. You'll need some spools to put it on so you may want to buy some actual serving material like 3D first, so you can use them up and then spool the spectra on the empty spools. If you have a bow shop close to you, you may also be able to get some spools from them that they would otherwise throw away.

For a serving jig, don't waste time with a cheap one. Get a Beiter Winder and be done with it. I have the regular weight one because I don't serve by hand much but if you're wrapping by hand, the heavy may be better for you. You also should look at either making or purchasing an NW Spinner. I made my own version but if you don't have a scroll saw or a band saw, get one from b0w_bender and be glad you did. They are a must if you're doing many strings at all. Here's a link to b0w_bender's website so you can see what the NW spinner is. http://nwspinner.com/


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## Purka

The Beiter can be a pain to use with the Speciality Archery 600.  The two rails across the bottom tend to roll up the tag end and than make the jig reverse direction.


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## caspian

skullerud said:


> I'm not 100% sure what this Chinese spectra is, or at least not sure enough to go and order it.
> Would someone please post a link to it, as a reference?


this guy sells the "spectra extreme" which works well.

http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/agepochfishing-uk


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## skullerud

caspian said:


> this guy sells the "spectra extreme" which works well.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/agepochfishing-uk


Thanx Mate


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## time4camping

Thanks for the video. I learned a lot!!.. But I think I missed a step on using the tag ends to serve the end loops.. Every time I cross the tags and put through the middle When I pull them to the back they just twist the loop. I can't get them to stay as a serve loop..( not sure if that made since but not sure how to explain it)


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## time4camping

Thanks for the video. (The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide ) I learned a lot!!.. But I think I missed a step on using the tag ends to serve the end loops.. Every time I cross the tags and put through the middle When I pull them to the back they just twist the loop. I can't get them to stay as a serve loop..( not sure if that made since but not sure how to explain it)


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## Purka

time4camping said:


> Thanks for the video. (The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide ) I learned a lot!!.. But I think I missed a step on using the tag ends to serve the end loops.. Every time I cross the tags and put through the middle When I pull them to the back they just twist the loop. I can't get them to stay as a serve loop..( not sure if that made since but not sure how to explain it)


Don't pull too hard on the tags for the first couple of winds, just enough to lock them in, than you can lay into them.


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## MHoward

First off I want to thank everyone on here for sharing all there advice and techniques for making strings. It has helped me a lot. I really enjoy making things and this fills a void in these winter months.

I do want to give a shout out to Bowbender. I will admit I made a jig like his but I was not liking it. It was made in a hurry and it ended up in the trash. I went ahead and ordered his serving jig and bobbin. This was some of the best money I have ever spent and worth every penny. This thing works great! My hats off to you Bowbender and anyone thinking of one of these….get one….you will not be sorry!


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## RobColella

Huntinsker said:


> You also should look at either making or purchasing an NW Spinner. I made my own version but if you don't have a scroll saw or a band saw, get one from b0w_bender and be glad you did. They are a must if you're doing many strings at all. Here's a link to b0w_bender's website so you can see what the NW spinner is. http://nwspinner.com/


What string height and/or post height is needed to use the NW spinner? Trying to get my own jig/stretcher together as well.


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## MHoward

RobColella said:


> What string height and/or post height is needed to use the NW spinner? Trying to get my own jig/stretcher together as well.


My jig is 7 3/4" in diameter and 3 3/4 from the edge to center of the server. Hope that helps.


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## jameswk

RobColella said:


> What string height and/or post height is needed to use the NW spinner? Trying to get my own jig/stretcher together as well.


I use my spinner with the bcy stretching jig and it clears


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## tered

I added this this week. Need a bettter spring.


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## 2X_LUNG

Purka said:


> Don't pull too hard on the tags for the first couple of winds, just enough to lock them in, than you can lay into them.


Exactly!! The key is not pulling hard for the first couple times around


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## tered

General question. What direction do you all twists your strings? My jig is setup to twist on the right hand end when standing with the jig in front of me.


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## jameswk

Clockwise


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## tered

Do you serve in the same direction?


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## 2X_LUNG

Yes


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## jameswk

Yup


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## tered

Thanks. I so much like the string building. You all are great. Thank you very much.


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## 6xsteelers

automan26 said:


> WOW!!!!!! I am completely blown away with this thread you have put together here. This is the first time I have had a chance to see the jig you built and I can honestly say that it will build a string that is as good or better than anything on the market today. I really like the modifications (improvements) you made to my jig.Your explanation of the entire process, start to finish, is outstanding--I am jealous ;-).
> 
> I am confident that anyone who wants to get into string building can look at this thread and start from a bare workbench and have their own custom built strings on their bow in 30 days.
> 
> Awesome job. This thread should be a sticky.
> 
> Automan


this!! wow is right, thank you!


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## Huntinsker

tered said:


> Do you serve in the same direction?





tered said:


> Thanks. I so much like the string building. You all are great. Thank you very much.


Glad you like our little community we have here. There's a lot of good info and good guys contributing to the thread.

On page 10, post #227, I've linked to 2 videos detailing the direction of twist and the direction of serving. It can be confusing to read about so it may help you better understand if you can see it. Admittedly, b0w_bender's video is better than mine but I didn't discover his video until I had hacked my way through my attempt.


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## tered

Thanks.


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## phytenphyre

I just sat and read through this entire thread. Wow, I can't wait to get started...someday!


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## tered

Will string clamps allow me to serve tighter?


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## Huntinsker

tered said:


> Will string clamps allow me to serve tighter?


Simple answer is yes. The less the string rotates while serving, the tighter you can serve.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Would this work to tension an twist


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## michaelgentry87

Same design as originally but modified to use eyebolt and s hook 
And what size s hook


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## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> Would this work to tension an twist


I don't see why it wouldn't but you may find that having a loose swinging "S" hook as a string post would be a pain in the butt to work on. Having a solid post makes it easy to measure on as well as the rest of the work involved. Also, having a straight post to build on will ensure that your strand length is the same for each strand of the string. If you have a curved post, the strands in the "apex" of the curve would be shorter than the strands further around the curve when laying the bundle out. A hook is great to use as a stretcher but not so great as a building post.


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## michaelgentry87

true I think im going to see if I can get some post welded up, as I tried to tap the bolt nut and could not I don't have the equip to drill a straight hole


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## b0w_bender

RobColella said:


> What string height and/or post height is needed to use the NW spinner? Trying to get my own jig/stretcher together as well.


If you slide the NWSpinner in from the side the shortest post I would recommend would probably be 4" this gives you a bit of extra room for oscillation and ease of extraction. A picture is worth a thousand words so here goes.


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## b0w_bender

MHoward said:


> I do want to give a shout out to Bowbender. I will admit I made a jig like his but I was not liking it. It was made in a hurry and it ended up in the trash. I went ahead and ordered his serving jig and bobbin. This was some of the best money I have ever spent and worth every penny. This thing works great! My hats off to you Bowbender and anyone thinking of one of these….get one….you will not be sorry!


Wow gee thanks for the shout out I really appreciate the kind words. 
Just for yucks here is a picture of the very first NWSpinner. I had a bunch of strings I had to make for the kids bows and I just couldn't bring my self to do them by hand. After this picture was originally posted here in the DIY forum I got a bunch of requests from people asking me to build and sell them. the second picture was the first one I built out of wood as a proof of concept to make sure it would work before I had a bunch cut with the overhead router.

I also want to say Thanks to 
Huntinsker for starting this thread and Automan26 for the development of the Elcheapo string Jig. This thread is a great addition to the string building community!


----------



## jameswk

b0w_bender said:


> Wow gee thanks for the shout out I really appreciate the kind words.
> Just for yucks here is a picture of the very first NWSpinner. I had a bunch of strings I had to make for the kids bows and I just couldn't bring my self to do them by hand. After this picture was originally posted here in the DIY forum I got a bunch of requests from people asking me to build and sell them. the second picture was the first one I built out of wood as a proof of concept to make sure it would work before I had a bunch cut with the overhead router.
> 
> I also want to say Thanks to
> Huntinsker for starting this thread and Automan26 for the development of the Elcheapo string Jig. This thread is a great addition to the string building community!


👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍


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## Huntinsker

b0w_bender said:


> Wow gee thanks for the shout out I really appreciate the kind words.
> Just for yucks here is a picture of the very first NWSpinner. I had a bunch of strings I had to make for the kids bows and I just couldn't bring my self to do them by hand. After this picture was originally posted here in the DIY forum I got a bunch of requests from people asking me to build and sell them. the second picture was the first one I built out of wood as a proof of concept to make sure it would work before I had a bunch cut with the overhead router.
> 
> I also want to say Thanks to
> Huntinsker for starting this thread and Automan26 for the development of the Elcheapo string Jig. This thread is a great addition to the string building community!


Thank you b0w_bender. It's great to have a guy like you contributing to the thread. Your invention makes what we do a whole lot easier and I hope you've gotten some orders from the new builders that we've inspired. I, and I'm sure many others, really appreciate what you've done for the string building community on AT.


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## tered

Got my string clamps done.


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## redyak3

Huntinsker said:


> Thank you b0w_bender. It's great to have a guy like you contributing to the thread. Your invention makes what we do a whole lot easier and I hope you've gotten some orders from the new builders that we've inspired. I, and I'm sure many others, really appreciate what you've done for the string building community on AT.


I whole-heartedly agree! b0w_bender your idea(s) and knowledge have made string building attainable and fun for me, and I'm sure countless others.


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## Revvv

subscribed


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## Huntinsker

tered said:


> Got my string clamps done.


Look plenty solid.


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## tered

Yes I took 1/4" steel plate and welded 3/8 x 8 studs to the plates. Then cut the studs to drill and tap the threaded rod into. I used loc-tight to hold the rods.


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## 2X_LUNG

I've got a set of clamps I made like the ones Huntinsker posted. I'll gladly send to someone in need!


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## tered

These are Awsome. I will put them to use tonight. Not sure how long I be in the garage tonight its 4deg out and inhave no heater yet. Thankyou everyone for all of your help.


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## tered

Does anyone have a video on making split yoke cables?


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## 2X_LUNG

Tered, I'll try to make one for you


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## tered

Thanks I have made a set but I think I smessed it up.


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## tered

When you get free time. I think the cold is going to keep me in the house. Thanks again.


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## 2X_LUNG

Haha. I will do


----------



## Huntinsker

tered said:


> Does anyone have a video on making split yoke cables?


It's very much like making a regular single piece string or cable except that you lay out one color and finish the loop and then lay out the second color and finish that loop. The you finish the bottom loop and stretch and twist the same from there. 

How do you think you messed it up? What does it look like?


----------



## tered

I seem to have a hard time getting the second color loop done. Are you to remove the first string?


----------



## Huntinsker

tered said:


> I seem to have a hard time getting the second color loop done. Are you to remove the first string?


I don't but you can. Because I close the loops with the tag end, there is a gap on each side of the first loop that I can get the tags from the second through to wrap them. Once you get five or six wraps with each, then you can do one tag at a time and that goes pretty quickly.


----------



## shinobi3

Ray knight has a really good thread in the arrow and strings categorie.


----------



## jameswk

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2068194


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks James I couldn't get the link through tapatalk


----------



## tered

Thanks jameswk. That is a great link.


----------



## jameswk

shinobi3 said:


> Thanks James I couldn't get the link through tapatalk


Np I figured as much this update tontapatalk is struggling


----------



## tered

My fear was if I took the string off my jig I would mess it up on the yoke. I see know that I will be ok.


----------



## jameswk

Depending on your jig style just make sure you get set back to exact same length for each color


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> Depending on your jig style just make sure you get set back to exact same length for each color


This is why I don't bother taking it off the jig. I don't want to have to measure again and have the chance of not getting them the exact same length. It just helps me to be more consistent with less room for error.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> This is why I don't bother taking it off the jig. I don't want to have to measure again and have the chance of not getting them the exact same length. It just helps me to be more consistent with less room for error.


Same here... I was using 3 posts to layout yokes for a bit but it just made me worry I wasn't perfectly square even though I must of measured each post a dozen times it's just still the uncertainty


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> Same here... I was using 3 posts to layout yokes for a bit but it just made me worry I wasn't perfectly square even though I must of measured each post a dozen times it's just still the uncertainty


Yeah I'm too OCD to do that. I just make sure I have tall enough jig posts so that I can build one above the other.


----------



## shinobi3

tered said:


> My fear was if I took the string off my jig I would mess it up on the yoke. I see know that I will be ok.


Leave the jig bolted down where it's at and just pull the string off. Then layout the section and finish it. Put your other string back on and finish the the other end loop with a scrap piece. I will try and do a video later


----------



## shinobi3

https://vimeo.com/116288594


----------



## jameswk

shinobi3 said:


> https://vimeo.com/116288594


You must really horse down on your strands... I could hear the pressure when you pulled it off... Am I mistaken?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I don't pull my sets. They stay on my jig the entire build


----------



## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> I don't pull my sets. They stay on my jig the entire build


Do you use 3 posts on your baker jig when you do your yokes


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Nope. Just two posts. I'll make a video for you


jameswk said:


> Do you use 3 posts on your baker jig when you do your yokes


----------



## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> Nope. Just two posts. I'll make a video for you


Thanks no need I was curious... I've done it both ways but prefer to usec2 posts as well


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Haha. OK!! Two post is much easier, imo


----------



## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> Haha. OK!! Two post is much easier, imo


But if your bored I did enjoy watching your other one lol...


----------



## shinobi3

I just do tight enough where they dont overlap


----------



## shinobi3

I have the rest on video but wasn't very happy with it. I'm not gonna lie I rushed through it, it was only 8 degrees out in the garage. [emoji301]️[emoji301]️[emoji301]️


----------



## Purka

When doing a pin stripe, three posts do a lot better looking buss cable because there is a pin stripe up each leg of the yoke.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I just do a pin up one side. I personally like it.


----------



## jameswk

I let strand count dictate where stripes go


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> I let strand count dictate where stripes go


Me too. If I want a thicker pin typically a pin goes up each yoke leg. If I'm using Fury, I use 2 strands in each side of the pin so I always have a pin on each yoke. If I'm doing a thinner pinstripe, I put the pin up only 1 leg. If you're doing a 24 strand buss and you put only 1 strand of pinstripe, that means that you have 22 strands of the primary colors so that's 11 for each bundle. That puts 1 tag of each color at each end plus a single tag of the pinstripe at the yoke ends. Seems more complicated than you need. 

If you do the pinstripe up one yoke leg, that puts the tags of the primary colors at the yoke ends so you can easily finish the loops and then, if you lay it out for ease, the 2 tag ends of the pinstripe can be used to finish the bottom loop. So only 3 sets of tags and all 3 end up at a loop. Can't get much easier than that.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> Me too. If I want a thicker pin typically a pin goes up each yoke leg. If I'm using Fury, I use 2 strands in each side of the pin so I always have a pin on each yoke. If I'm doing a thinner pinstripe, I put the pin up only 1 leg. If you're doing a 24 strand buss and you put only 1 strand of pinstripe, that means that you have 22 strands of the primary colors so that's 11 for each bundle. That puts 1 tag of each color at each end plus a single tag of the pinstripe at the yoke ends. Seems more complicated than you need.
> 
> If you do the pinstripe up one yoke leg, that puts the tags of the primary colors at the yoke ends so you can easily finish the loops and then, if you lay it out for ease, the 2 tag ends of the pinstripe can be used to finish the bottom loop. So only 3 sets of tags and all 3 end up at a loop. Can't get much easier than that.


Spot on! As always[emoji6]


----------



## time4camping

> I made a simple pinstripe video. Feel free to check it out on YouTube





> Thank Brian, here is the link to your great video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


:thumbs_up Great video Thanks for making it and thanks for posting the link.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I hope it comes in handy for many!!


----------



## time4camping

A quick question. I have the string twist formula that I got from the nw spinner site. And I have heard that you can use .50-.75. The question is. Is more twists or less twists better. Or is it just cosmetic. Tighter twists would probably hold the peep tighter gap but would be easier to twist on you. Or am I over thinking it.


----------



## jameswk

time4camping said:


> A quick question. I have the string twist formula that I got from the nw spinner site. And I have heard that you can use .50-.75. The question is. Is more twists or less twists better. Or is it just cosmetic. Tighter twists would probably hold the peep tighter gap but would be easier to twist on you. Or am I over thinking it.


More twist means more material means more resistance means less speed... Imo you've got to find a happy medium


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> A quick question. I have the string twist formula that I got from the nw spinner site. And I have heard that you can use .50-.75. The question is. Is more twists or less twists better. Or is it just cosmetic. Tighter twists would probably hold the peep tighter gap but would be easier to twist on you. Or am I over thinking it.


Like james said, you need to find a happy medium that works for you. I use .66 because I like the look of the twist rate and because it works well with my build style. If the string is made correctly, the number of twists shouldn't have much to do with peep twist, unless there are no twists that is. The only thing that matters is that you do have some twists. How many per inch is up to you.


----------



## time4camping

Great thanks for the info


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Pm me and I'll give you my formula. Its simple


----------



## MHoward

question for you guys. I was asked to make a replacement string for a JOAD shooter's Genesis. All I can find out is they are stocked with Zebra strings at 14 strands. Could anyone tell me how many strands I should use by making it out of bcy x? I only have bcy x but would like this shooter out!

thanks a lot


----------



## jameswk

MHoward said:


> question for you guys. I was asked to make a replacement string for a JOAD shooter's Genesis. All I can find out is they are stocked with Zebra strings at 14 strands. Could anyone tell me how many strands I should use by making it out of bcy x? I only have bcy x but would like this shooter out!
> 
> thanks a lot


My guess is that's 14 stands of dynaflight 97 or s larger material I would used 22 strands of x but if you want to be absolutely sure contact bcy. I can put my hands on a genesis later on and take a look also. Pm me.


----------



## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> question for you guys. I was asked to make a replacement string for a JOAD shooter's Genesis. All I can find out is they are stocked with Zebra strings at 14 strands. Could anyone tell me how many strands I should use by making it out of bcy x? I only have bcy x but would like this shooter out!
> 
> thanks a lot


I've made a couple sets for the Genesis and used 22 strands of 452x all around. I think 22 of X with .025" center serving would work well.


----------



## RobColella

Thank you Bowbender.

I have you one of your jigs now and was trying to design some posts around it. Now that I have it on hand, it's definitely easier to decide on post size.


----------



## time4camping

good afternoon. I have read your posts and I have asked a few questions. Thanks to all of you I have built my own jig and just finished my first set of strings!!! I tried a few different types. My string is a 22 strand two color twist, My control cable is a 22 strand single pin stripe and my bus cable is a 24 strand total 2 strand pin with a single pin going up each yoke. It looks great!!!
Now saying that I'm not sure if I did something wrong. After installing it on my bow and timing it. My peek is centered with my string and nocking point but when I draw it the string twists. rotating my peep slightly. Is this a problem with the string build.
Thanks in advance


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> good afternoon. I have read your posts and I have asked a few questions. Thanks to all of you I have built my own jig and just finished my first set of strings!!! I tried a few different types. My string is a 22 strand two color twist, My control cable is a 22 strand single pin stripe and my bus cable is a 24 strand total 2 strand pin with a single pin going up each yoke. It looks great!!!
> Now saying that I'm not sure if I did something wrong. After installing it on my bow and timing it. My peek is centered with my string and nocking point but when I draw it the string twists. rotating my peep slightly. Is this a problem with the string build.
> Thanks in advance


How many times have you shot the bow with your new strings? Did you do any shots before installing the peep?


----------



## time4camping

No not yet. No shots through it


----------



## time4camping

Well after shooting about 15 shots through it. I reset the peep and then shot another 15 to 20 shots. That fixed the problem the peep stayed. Thanks.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Excellent work for a 1st set Time4.


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> Well after shooting about 15 shots through it. I reset the peep and then shot another 15 to 20 shots. That fixed the problem the peep stayed. Thanks.
> View attachment 2130960
> 
> View attachment 2130962
> 
> View attachment 2130963
> View attachment 2130965


Good job! 30-40 shots and having a settled peep is a HUGE success on your first string. I've dealt with strings from many different "professional" and commercial builders and I've seen a lot of them have more than that for shoot in time. I remember my first set being like that and it felt great. You should be pretty happy with that for sure. :thumbs_up


----------



## time4camping

Thank you. It was a lot of fun. Now I have to talk my brother in law to let me make him a set so I can improve the technique.


----------



## budalcorn45

Very well done!


----------



## automan26

Yesterday my spool of 60#, black Chinese Spectra fishing line arrived. Quickly I cranked out a short test string and used it to serve the ends and the center. Next, I laid down a section of black 3D so I could compare the two materials and I liked what I saw. To the naked eye, both materials were nearly identical. I got out my caliper and measured the diameters of the served areas and found that the black Chinese Spectra was only 0.004" narrower in diameter than the 3D. (Perfect) The fishing line is braided while the 3D is twisted. I think the fishing line grabbed the string a bit better due to its slightly rougher texture. I have been shooting the clear Chinese line for quite a while without any issues, so I think the black should work fine.

The best part--125 yards of 3D sells for around 12 bux and over 300 yards of the fishing line sells for around $10. It's a no-brainer as to what I am going to start using heavily from now on out.

Automan


----------



## jameswk

automan26 said:


> Yesterday my spool of 60#, black Chinese Spectra fishing line arrived. Quickly I cranked out a short test string and used it to serve the ends and the center. Next, I laid down a section of black 3D so I could compare the two materials and I liked what I saw. To the naked eye, both materials were nearly identical. I got out my caliper and measured the diameters of the served areas and found that the black Chinese Spectra was only 0.004" narrower in diameter than the 3D. (Perfect) The fishing line is braided while the 3D is twisted. I think the fishing line grabbed the string a bit better due to its slightly rougher texture. I have been shooting the clear Chinese line for quite a while without any issues, so I think the black should work fine.
> 
> The best part--125 yards of 3D sells for around 12 bux and over 300 yards of the fishing line sells for around $10. It's a no-brainer as to what I am going to start using heavily from now on out.
> 
> Automan


I found some colored line of all different pounds on ebay I want to try out too. Thanks for posting about this automan!


----------



## shinobi3

Very nice automan!


----------



## automan26

Here is the link I think I used to get the fishing line.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190941579475

Automan


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Thanks for posting that Automan. For the rest of you who are using some form of braided line, can you post links to where you are buying?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I'm using 30lb test of exact stuff. It works awesome


----------



## jonw

2X_LUNG said:


> I'm using 30lb test of exact stuff. It works awesome


Are most using this instead of halo?


----------



## redyak3

Here's a vendor I use. Worked good for me, love the stuff...
http://www.ebay.com/usr/agepochfishing-es?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## MHoward

Just ordered some...cant wait to try it


----------



## 2X_LUNG

You'll like it!


----------



## shinobi3

Is the diameter smaller then halo?


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> Is the diameter smaller then halo?


Depends on what weight fishing line you buy.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> Depends on what weight fishing line you buy.


And what size halo your using...


shinobi3 said:


> Is the diameter smaller then halo?


----------



## shinobi3

Okay I'm usually using .14 for halo or bullwhip.. What would be a smaller diameter then that?


----------



## jameswk

shinobi3 said:


> Okay I'm usually using .14 for halo or bullwhip.. What would be a smaller diameter then that?


20# test is 20mm abouts. Which would be the super small .008


----------



## redyak3

I'm thinking about trying this for some red serving. 50# is .36mm = .014.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20123055928...49&var=500425105886&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## jameswk

MHoward said:


> question for you guys. I was asked to make a replacement string for a JOAD shooter's Genesis. All I can find out is they are stocked with Zebra strings at 14 strands. Could anyone tell me how many strands I should use by making it out of bcy x? I only have bcy x but would like this shooter out!
> 
> thanks a lot


Must be genesis time Ive got 3 I have to put strings on now lol.

This is the first


----------



## MHoward

jameswk said:


> Must be genesis time Ive got 3 I have to put strings on now lol.
> 
> This is the first
> View attachment 2133397


Super cool! I used 20 strands of BCY X and it seamed to be really close. I did find that what they said the string length was on Mathews site and what the bow string measured were 1/2" different...so I made the strings the same length!


----------



## jameswk

MHoward said:


> Super cool! I used 20 strands of BCY X and it seamed to be really close. I did find that what they said the string length was on Mathews site and what the bow string measured were 1/2" different...so I made the strings the same length!


Wow that's a big difference


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thought I'd share this combo. Absolutely awesome in person. Flo yel/dk brown with black pinstripe.


----------



## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> Thought I'd share this combo. Absolutely awesome in person. Flo yel/dk brown with black pinstripe.


Weird colors but man do they look awesome together who would of thought


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Lol. I looked at my colors and thought what the heck. Turned out awesome tho


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I like that "pop" of a bright color. I don't know why. Lol


----------



## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> I like that "pop" of a bright color. I don't know why. Lol


I'm the same way


----------



## redyak3

2X_LUNG said:


> Thought I'd share this combo. Absolutely awesome in person. Flo yel/dk brown with black pinstripe.


Wow, good looking combo! I was thinking along those lines but with a red pin and red serving. Did you go with clear/white serving?
Great job as always!


----------



## shinobi3

jameswk said:


> 20# test is 20mm abouts. Which would be the super small .008


Has anyone used this low of poundage before with good results?


----------



## jameswk

shinobi3 said:


> Has anyone used this low of poundage before with good results?


I've never personally used it but I think they use it for loops and on cables in the cable guide area


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

shinobi3 said:


> Has anyone used this low of poundage before with good results?


I have used it for the roller guide areas with good results.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

redyak3 said:


> Wow, good looking combo! I was thinking along those lines but with a red pin and red serving. Did you go with clear/white serving?
> Great job as always!


Thanks!! I used black serving to set off the black pinstripe a little. A red pin and serving would look awesome


----------



## time4camping

2X_LUNG said:


> Thought I'd share this combo. Absolutely awesome in person. Flo yel/dk brown with black pinstripe.


Great looking set


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> Has anyone used this low of poundage before with good results?


I haven't used that specific material but I use .007 Halo through my roller guards on my Bears and I've used .002" braided fishing line through cable slides that like to chew cables. It holds up really well even at that extremely small diameter.


----------



## jonw

Well I got to pick up the beast today and bring her home


----------



## time4camping

I was wondering. when you guys are wrapping the color that you're going to put the pin striping in.do you wrap half and then keep it on the spool wrap the pinstripe and then continue wrapping the other half. Or do you wrap Half cut it off and tie it down wrap the pinstripe and then wrap the other half separately.


----------



## tered

Ok my question is do you serve your loops before or after twisting?


----------



## jonw

tered said:


> Ok my question is do you serve your loops before or after twisting?


Serve the loops before twisting with either tag ends or serving material, which are you using?


----------



## tered

Tag end. I serve the loops but do I tie the bundles together?


----------



## tered

I should asked do you close the loops before twisting.


----------



## redyak3

jonw said:


> Well I got to pick up the beast today and bring her home


That's some machine you got there, nice shop!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> I was wondering. when you guys are wrapping the color that you're going to put the pin striping in.do you wrap half and then keep it on the spool wrap the pinstripe and then continue wrapping the other half. Or do you wrap Half cut it off and tie it down wrap the pinstripe and then wrap the other half separately.


When I lay out a pinstripe string, I lay down the first primary color completely, then lay out the pinstripe with the tag ends at whichever end I choose, and then lay out the other color on top.

When I do a buss cable, I lay out the first primary color completely, then put the pinstripe on top of that and then close the loop for the first color. Then I lay out the second primary color and finish that loop and then use the pinstripe tag ends to finish the bottom loop.


----------



## time4camping

Thank you for the response. I should have said a four color with a pin stripe. Where the pin stripe is in between the second color


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> Thank you for the response. I should have said a four color with a pin stripe. Where the pin stripe is in between the second color


I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying. You want a 4 "primary color string with a only a single pinstripe running between 2 of the 4 colors?


----------



## time4camping

Huntinsker said:


> I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying. You want a 4 "primary color string with a only a single pinstripe running between 2 of the 4 colors?


I'm sorry for the confusion. 
First I lay my primary color down. Then my second primary color I want to split with a pinstripe. The question I'm having is. Can I wrap half of the primary. Then wrap the pinstripe. Then continue wrapping the other half of the primary. When I wrap the other half of the primary. One strand will cross over the pinstripe. Is that okay? Or will it throw off my twists.


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> I'm sorry for the confusion.
> First I lay my primary color down. Then my second primary color I want to split with a pinstripe. The question I'm having is. Can I wrap half of the primary. Then wrap the pinstripe. Then continue wrapping the other half of the primary. When I wrap the other half of the primary. One strand will cross over the pinstripe. Is that okay? Or will it throw off my twists.


This sounds like a very complicated string haha. So you'll have solid color, then a color with a pinstripe within the color and then 2 more solid colors?

If that's the case, Then for a 22 strand string, you'd have 5 strands of the 4 colors with the final 2 strands made up of a pinstripe. Is that what you're looking to do?


----------



## time4camping

Huntinsker said:


> This sounds like a very complicated string haha. So you'll have solid color, then a color with a pinstripe within the color and then 2 more solid colors?
> 
> If that's the case, Then for a 22 strand string, you'd have 5 strands of the 4 colors with the final 2 strands made up of a pinstripe. Is that what you're looking to do?


No its just a normal string that I've seen on the site. There was a white orange and black one on the site. They called it a 4-color pinstripe. 
Its just a white primary. An orange secondary. With the black pinstripe in between the orange.


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> No its just a normal string that I've seen on the site. There was a white orange and black one on the site. They called it a 4-color pinstripe.
> Its just a white primary. An orange secondary. With the black pinstripe in between the orange.


I wish I could see a picture of this. So the string had orange on each side of the black? If so, that's just a white and black primary with orange pinstripes. If you want the black to be a thin stripe, just lay it out like this.

All the white, then all the orange and above it all, the few black strands. Then put golf tees in so that the orange gets pushed out to the sides and the black stays above every thing else. I wouldn't even put a tee in the white.


----------



## time4camping

Huntinsker said:


> I wish I could see a picture of this. So the string had orange on each side of the black? If so, that's just a white and black primary with orange pinstripes. If you want the black to be a thin stripe, just lay it out like this.
> 
> All the white, then all the orange and above it all, the few black strands. Then put golf tees in so that the orange gets pushed out to the sides and the black stays above every thing else. I wouldn't even put a tee in the white.











This one


----------



## Huntinsker

Oh that's just a regular pinstripe string. Just lay out the first color, then put the pinstripe strands down and then lay out the other color. Separate the strands like this with golf tees before twisting.


----------



## time4camping

Never mind after looking at the pictures again I see my problem. Thanks for your help and your patience


----------



## time4camping

Huntinsker said:


> Oh that's just a regular pinstripe string. Just lay out the first color, then put the pinstripe strands down and then lay out the other color. Separate the strands like this with golf tees before twisting.
> 
> View attachment 2134372


Thanks that will help


----------



## Huntinsker

time4camping said:


> Never mind after looking at the pictures again I see my problem. Thanks for your help and your patience


No problem at all. Glad you got it figured out.


----------



## tered

Ok I serve the loops with the tag ends. Now do you all close the two end loops with 3d material before twisting or after twisting?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Twist it. Stretch it. Serve it


----------



## tered

Thanks.


----------



## jameswk

tered said:


> Ok I serve the loops with the tag ends. Now do you all close the two end loops with 3d material before twisting or after twisting?


After


----------



## jonw

tered said:


> Ok I serve the loops with the tag ends. Now do you all close the two end loops with 3d material before twisting or after twisting?


I tag serve my loops, stretch and then twist, (I stretch first to make sure all strands are equal) then take off stretcher let string relax then check length at 100# and then serve


----------



## jonw

redyak3 said:


> That's some machine you got there, nice shop!!!


Thanks trying to get everything set up like I want it


----------



## brad canton

First strings I've build in 2 years
First up 10 strand Flo Orange/Green 4 Black pin







Second != Flo Green/Purple and a Silver pin


----------



## jameswk

brad canton said:


> First strings I've build in 2 years
> First up 10 strand Flo Orange/Green 4 Black pin
> View attachment 2134725
> 
> Second != Flo Green/Purple and a Silver pin
> View attachment 2134727


Good stuff


----------



## budalcorn45

Looks great!


----------



## jonw

I have made a few pinstriped strings, but just wondering what most builders do about getting the pinstrip between the solids, do you chase the colors with a piece of string or chase the pinstrip?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Check out my pinstripe video on YouTube. It should help you


----------



## Huntinsker

jonw said:


> I have made a few pinstriped strings, but just wondering what most builders do about getting the pinstrip between the solids, do you chase the colors with a piece of string or chase the pinstrip?


If you lay it out and separate the strands correctly, they should pretty much lay between the primary color automatically. Separate the stands like this.








And it'll twist up like this.








I run a piece of material underneath them just to make sure they stay on top but I don't wrench on them real hard and pull them out and lay them on top. Also like 2X said, you should check out his video on youtube. He shows a solid method to make a good looking pinstripe string. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


----------



## MHoward

Thanks for the help and info you guys….this is my first pin stripe! Happy with the outcome!


----------



## jameswk

👆👆👆👆👍👍👍👍👍


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Great job


----------



## Huntinsker

Looks great MHoward.


----------



## MHoward

Thanks guys....your info and videos get all the credit!!!


----------



## Fiferguy

Howdy all. I got my jig built, and threw together an 18" string just for giggles. 24 strands of BCY X. Came out pretty good, but there were a few things I didn't like about the serving that I did. Oh well. It was good for a first attempt. Still need to calibrate my jig spring as well so I know when I'm at the correct weight.

I had a question though. Have any of you ever stretched more than 300-350 lbs? What were your results? As a test to make sure my jig was sturdy enough, I cranked it down to bottom out the spring on my 18" string. Best guess was about 500 lbs of tension on the line. Advantages to stretching to that much? Disadvantages?


----------



## Huntinsker

The biggest problem I see with stretching with too much tension is that you may get a lot of strut flex which can cause the string to pop off or your posts to break if the string slides up the posts. Also, I remember reading a post from the guys at BCY that stretching their materials over 400lbs was not necessary and that it could potentially cause some of the fibers to break down which would make a lower quality string. I think they were being kind of conservative with that number but I've never needed more tension than 350lbs.


----------



## Fiferguy

Thanks bud. I was just curious. Mostly it was a stress test on the jig itself. I had absolutely no flex when I bottomed it out. The weakest component on the system (that sees any kind of stress) is the thrust bearing, and it's rated at 2400 lbs. It probably doesn't even notice 500 lbs. I can still turn the tensioning nut by hand, even at full depression. I'll see if I can get a good picture of what I built and post it.

I did find out that my spring bottoms out at 530 lbs. So at full compression, and I didn't try to tighten beyond that, I should have been at 530 lbs plus or minus a little bit.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> Thanks bud. I was just curious. Mostly it was a stress test on the jig itself. I had absolutely no flex when I bottomed it out. The weakest component on the system (that sees any kind of stress) is the thrust bearing, and it's rated at 2400 lbs. It probably doesn't even notice 500 lbs. I can still turn the tensioning nut by hand, even at full depression. I'll see if I can get a good picture of what I built and post it.
> 
> I did find out that my spring bottoms out at 530 lbs. So at full compression, and I didn't try to tighten beyond that, I should have been at 530 lbs plus or minus a little bit.


If you're going to get flex on your strut, it'll really become apparent with a longer string. The longer the string, the more the flex, assuming you'll get any at all.


----------



## MHoward

automan26 said:


> Yesterday my spool of 60#, black Chinese Spectra fishing line arrived. Quickly I cranked out a short test string and used it to serve the ends and the center. Next, I laid down a section of black 3D so I could compare the two materials and I liked what I saw. To the naked eye, both materials were nearly identical. I got out my caliper and measured the diameters of the served areas and found that the black Chinese Spectra was only 0.004" narrower in diameter than the 3D. (Perfect) The fishing line is braided while the 3D is twisted. I think the fishing line grabbed the string a bit better due to its slightly rougher texture. I have been shooting the clear Chinese line for quite a while without any issues, so I think the black should work fine.
> 
> The best part--125 yards of 3D sells for around 12 bux and over 300 yards of the fishing line sells for around $10. It's a no-brainer as to what I am going to start using heavily from now on out.
> 
> Automan


So since this is braided...could you potentially use it for center serving as well?


----------



## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> So since this is braided...could you potentially use it for center serving as well?


Sure. You can use any serving material for center serving but some are better than others and for different applications.


----------



## MHoward

Huntinsker said:


> Sure. You can use any serving material for center serving but some are better than others and for different applications.


sweet! I only ever used that bcy white and black braided in .021...and it was a wee bit to big....I googled to see about using 3D as serving and the responses were that it is no good for that.......but this is good news!


----------



## Donald1800

*Need Empty Serving Spools*

 I am just starting to build my first string/cable set and I have all of the equipment and supplies in hand or on order, but I plan to use 'Spyder Wire' for my loop servings (4 post jig), and since I am just starting, I haven't accumulated any serving spools to put it on. If you have any laying around, PM me for my mailing address and info. on the mailing fee. Thanx in advance for any help offered.


----------



## tered

First pinstripe.


----------



## automan26

Spot-on and looking as good as any of the pro builders are putting out. Those pins look great. That's a great first job and I would brag it up and show it off if it came from my jig here at home, so you had better get that on a bow and take it to the nearest range and strut your stuff. 

Automan


----------



## tered

Thanks.


----------



## SamT

Looks great! Love the color combo.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

New set for my destroyer. Somewhat random layout. I like the way it twisted up though.


----------



## tered

I like the string. Buy I have to say the floor is Awsome. I am old enough that I can remember that flooring. Where did you get the winder?


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

tered said:


> I like the string. Buy I have to say the floor is Awsome. I am old enough that I can remember that flooring. Where did you get the winder?


Yeah, the carpet is a little dated. Lol.
The winder is an outer limit moto server.


----------



## Huntinsker

Looking good guys!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Clear serving looks nice...


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Clear serving looks nice...


Nice! That's crazy clear.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thanks! It turned out excellent


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> Nice! That's crazy clear.


Which serving is that...? That. Is crazy clear


----------



## jameswk

And I don't know why why but those colors make me think of ninja turtles...


----------



## jameswk

is that the Chinese fishing line>?or did you do something different to get it that clear i really like it.


2X_LUNG said:


> Thanks! It turned out excellent


----------



## 2X_LUNG

jameswk said:


> is that the Chinese fishing line>?or did you do something different to get it that clear i really like it.


Yep! Roller area


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

Just a heads up for the guys that want to try the Chinese fishing braids for serving thread. Most guys seem to be using the 4 strand braid, probably because of the very low cost, but you can also buy much higher quality 8 strand braid. I would think this would also be excellent for center serving as well. The cheapest place I have found to buy it is Aliexpress, usually takes about 3 weeks to get to Australia but have never had a problem with them. The seller doesn't get the money until you confirm you have the item and are 100% satisfied with it. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/SeaK...hing-Wire-for-all-fishing/2014052287.html?s=p


----------



## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> Yep! Roller area


Oh the really small diameter stuff that's why so clear


----------



## 2X_LUNG

30# test


----------



## jameswk

2X_LUNG said:


> 30# test


Very nice! I like it


----------



## mv2martin

Sweet


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Here's clear 3d


----------



## shinobi3

Nice


----------



## Binary cam man

Awesome Mr. 2X.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Thanks!


----------



## budalcorn45

Very cool! That is great work. I aspire to be that good some day!!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

budalcorn45 said:


> Very cool! That is great work. I aspire to be that good some day!!!!


It's not as hard as some may think. Join the community we have here and I have no doubt that you'll be making great threads too.


----------



## lunghit

Thinking about buying a scale to make sure my jig spring is not getting weaker over time. What type of scale would you guys recommend?


----------



## ElkFetish

Finally finished reading this entire thread! AWESOME STUFF! Really appreciate all the input from everyone. 

One thing I didn't do was write down all the info on the mods that have been done to the jig over time to make it better or fix issues, etc. Does anyone have a list or any suggestions on any changes that need to be made before I begin? As much as I enjoyed the read the thought of going back through it to find any changes made is overwhelming! LOL! 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

lunghit said:


> Thinking about buying a scale to make sure my jig spring is not getting weaker over time. What type of scale would you guys recommend?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/300Kg-100g-...248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5409401410


----------



## lunghit

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/300Kg-100g-...248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5409401410


That looks nice and I will probably order one. Thanks


----------



## tered

I bought a scale a dial scale and what is the best way to calibration of my jig.


----------



## Huntinsker

ElkFetish said:


> Finally finished reading this entire thread! AWESOME STUFF! Really appreciate all the input from everyone.
> 
> One thing I didn't do was write down all the info on the mods that have been done to the jig over time to make it better or fix issues, etc. Does anyone have a list or any suggestions on any changes that need to be made before I begin? As much as I enjoyed the read the thought of going back through it to find any changes made is overwhelming! LOL!
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I'm using the jig the same as it's shown in my first post except it have different bolts that I used for posts and I added a thrust bearing to make twisting smoother. I got the bearing from McMaster Carr. This is the bearing and washers.....

1 5909K32 Cage Assembly for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 3.02

2 5909K45 .032" Thick Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 2 

And these are the bolts which I got from Bolt Depot....

Part # 9354 Socket cap (smooth), Chrome plated grade 8 steel, 1/4"-20 x 2-1/4". 

If you're able or would like to, adding a sleeve of some sort to the jig around the threaded rod should eliminate binding. I haven't done that but I haven't been building near as many strings lately since I've been so busy. I haven't needed that modification yet.


----------



## MHoward

got my chinese spider wire yesterday…..spooled it on an empty spool….we have 7 to 10 inches of snow coming tonight so i will be out in the shop tomorrow messing around with it. Looks pretty sweet and you can't beat the price! keep you posted


----------



## Binary cam man

I have worn out all- thread rod quickly. The unsprung side. The tensioning nut has 1/2inch thread area. Put 300pound force or more on it and it will cross thread. Once that happens you will need to make a new one. I also use the thrust bearing and washers.still strips out. So I didn't want to make the same thing, I came up with this : extend the all-thread to 8 inches. Move the eye bolt back to the last hole. Buy a HILLMAN COUPLING NUT from LOWES H#881645. They cost 2.87 . They are 2 1/8 inches long. So far so good. Still in the test stage. Seems to be working good no problems yet . And I hope it stays that way. Thinking more area to hold more force. Also I sprayed the rod with Teflon dry lube. No grease or oily mess. Happy thread making to all!


----------



## tered

I know my timing is off but do i shorten the string in thus case. My string is the right is the right length. So was my cables$


----------



## jameswk

tered said:


> I know my timing is off but do i shorten the string in thus case. My string is the right is the right length. So was my cables$


Check your ATA and brace vs specs see how close they.


----------



## Huntinsker

tered said:


> I know my timing is off but do i shorten the string in thus case. My string is the right is the right length. So was my cables$


Tough to say from just a photo. A dual feed single cam bow uses the string as the control cable. As you shorten the string, it will pull that side of the cam around and bring your timing mark closer to your buss cable but it will decrease draw length, decrease poundage and decrease let off and valley. What's best to do is to shoot the bow several times to make sure the string and cable has settled into the cam tracks and maybe even relaxed a little and then use your tune to dictate where it should be.

If you have a draw board that you can hook a scale up to, you can draw the bow up slowly checking the weight, let off percentage and the draw length. That may tell you what you need to do if you know where you were to begin with.


----------



## Binary cam man

Measure the ATA first.


----------



## tered

I got my cam correct. I did shorten my string a little. The draw weight is about 2 lbs more. Draw length i will have to check on my draw board. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Binary cam man

Did you see those threads? Pink,black and yellow! Interesting! Let's see more!


----------



## tered

Nope red flow yellow and a black pinstripe. I will get a better picture


----------



## jameswk




----------



## tered

This should be a better picture


----------



## tered

I was going to get silver but did not know how it would look. I like that string. I uses two wraps of the black pinstripe. I will try a single wrap on the next set. Man this stuff is to fun.


----------



## Binary cam man

Wow what a difference in the photo. I thought the red was pink. Still looks good. And good job with the timing.


----------



## jameswk

I love the single strand pin to me it makes the pin a pin


----------



## 2X_LUNG

jameswk said:


>


Great job!!


----------



## jameswk

ty ty ty


----------



## Binary cam man

Here is a picture with the coupling nut.


----------



## automan26

Very nice and very clean. That looks like it will build a top quality string. I am anxious to see what it can do. You did a fine job.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

Thanks. Explanation in post #1918.


----------



## Binary cam man

First tri-color practice thread.


----------



## automan26

That's a great first start. I know lots of guys who have to work a long time to get where you are now. You will be a master builder in very short order.

Automan


----------



## ElkFetish

Huntinsker said:


> I'm using the jig the same as it's shown in my first post except it have different bolts that I used for posts and I added a thrust bearing to make twisting smoother. I got the bearing from McMaster Carr. This is the bearing and washers.....
> 
> 1 5909K32 Cage Assembly for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 3.02
> 
> 2 5909K45 .032" Thick Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 2
> 
> And these are the bolts which I got from Bolt Depot....
> 
> Part # 9354 Socket cap (smooth), Chrome plated grade 8 steel, 1/4"-20 x 2-1/4".
> 
> If you're able or would like to, adding a sleeve of some sort to the jig around the threaded rod should eliminate binding. I haven't done that but I haven't been building near as many strings lately since I've been so busy. I haven't needed that modification yet.


Perfect! Thank you!


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> That's a great first start. I know lots of guys who have to work a long time to get where you are now. You will be a master builder in very short order.
> 
> Automan


Thanks Automan.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Some pinstripe candy. Thought I'd share this neat combo.


----------



## jameswk

i do like those colors together!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

jameswk said:


> i do like those colors together!


Fred bear stuff. Ha


----------



## Binary cam man

Thought I would try something different. Needs to be perfected though.


----------



## jameswk

I like it!


----------



## shinobi3

Very nice


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


> I like it!


Thanks. I just started last November. I only have 3 different color threads. Red, blue and black. Not very good for combinations or pictures. I played with the tees . I think an all black thread with blue pins my look like lightning bolts. I have to try one. I have seen your threads. AWESOME! I'm along way from you guys. I'll keep practicing. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Binary cam man

shinobi3 said:


> Very nice


Thanks


----------



## jameswk

Total addiction


----------



## jameswk




----------



## Huntinsker

Good looking work guys.


----------



## Binary cam man

Still working on this thread. Haven't perfected it yet. Second attempt.


----------



## Huntinsker

That's pretty cool Binary cam man. It's interesting what you can come up with having only a couple colors to work with. The possibilities are nearly endless.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> That's pretty cool Binary cam man. It's interesting what you can come up with having only a couple colors to work with. The possibilities are nearly endless.


Thanks. Trying different things. Everybody is in love with the pinstripe. O by the way, your threads are excellent also.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

This combo is awesome I just did. Look


----------



## hoyt em all

Binary cam man said:


> Thanks. Trying different things. Everybody is in love with the pinstripe. O by the way, your threads are excellent also.


no ! not everybody is in love with pin stripes . to me they cross the line of looking good and function . like were do you split the string for peep sight?


----------



## Binary cam man

hoyt em all said:


> no ! not everybody is in love with pin stripes . to me they cross the line of looking good and function . like were do you split the string for peep sight?


I know what your saying. For my own personal bows I like one color threads. Only two tag ends. I also serve the loops with serving material. I would think it would be stronger and last longer. But I may be wrong. The guys here,on this site make some awesome threads. These guys are pro custom builders. You can see it in their work. Keep looking and reading I'm positive we will learn more!


----------



## jameswk

hoyt em all said:


> no ! not everybody is in love with pin stripes . to me they cross the line of looking good and function . like were do you split the string for peep sight?


Pin stripes function the same way as a any multicolor string. you split it the same way for the peep one stripe on each side, one color with each stripe.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

A simple one and two color. They're nice, just no bling. Lol


----------



## jameswk

4 color


----------



## jameswk

That's that camo fury isn't it? I like the looks of that...


----------



## tered

Okay i built set of strings and do. I need to draw my bow several times to settle the strings?


----------



## jameswk

tered said:


> Okay i built set of strings and do. I need to draw my bow several times to settle the strings?


If you had a good stretch period good serving tension and strand layout you shouldn't have to.


----------



## jameswk

I do however end up drawing it a few times on the draw board while I'm timing it once installed anyways


----------



## 2X_LUNG

jameswk said:


> That's that camo fury isn't it? I like the looks of that...


Yep, thats fury camo. Just two tag ends!


----------



## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> Yep, thats fury camo. Just two tag ends!


Hi, Mr 2X Just 2 tag ends. Do you feel like I do? Less tag ends will make a stronger thread? I value your opinion. Thank You.


----------



## RobG

I just ordered material to make my own this week.Building a jig this weekend with the excellent ideas on here.I'm sure I'll be here with questions and to post some pictures of my jig inspired from this thread


----------



## jameswk

RobG said:


> I just ordered material to make my own this week.Building a jig this weekend with the excellent ideas on here.I'm sure I'll be here with questions and to post some pictures of my jig inspired from this thread


Very cool welcome!


----------



## automan26

I was playing around with a test string today and came up with a simple idea for transferring fishing line to a serving thread spool. I think someone already posted something similar to this earlier, but here is what I made using 6" and 4" X 5/16" course thread carriage bolts, a 5/16" Unistrut square nut, a Unistrut square washer and some assorted nuts and washers I had laying around. When assembled, I can tension the nut holding the fishing line spool to whatever tension I like and chuck the bolt with the empty spool in a drill then start transferring material from one spool to the other. I put some stiff tension on the fishing line spool and I was pleased to find that the fishing line wound very tightly on the smaller spool. Just for giggles I served up a section of an old sting I had laying around and set the serving jig to a high tension and wound away. In the past the serving thread I had wound onto the new spool was never quite tight enough and sometimes it would backlash on itself and knot up if I used too much serving tension. Today I intentionally tried to over-tension the serving jig and it served smoothly and flawlessly.

In the pic you can see two steal washers and a nylon washer on the top of the spool. There is an identical setup under the spool with a hex nut and a wing nut, which is used as a lock for the hex nut. There is probably no reason to get as fancy as I did and a few less parts will achieve the same result.

Simple, cheap, and easy--that's what I like.

Parts List:
5/16" X 6" carriage bolt (1)
5/16" X 4" carriage bolt (1)
5/16" wing nut (3)
5/16" hex nut (2)
5/16" washer (2)
5/16" X 1 1/4" thin fender washers (6)
5/16" Unistrut square nut (1)
5/16" Unistrut square washer
I may have left something out in the above list, but if I have, it won't be hard to figure out what else you need.

Automan


----------



## tered

Need some help. Have built a set of strings and seem to have a lot of rotation in the string. Did i serve the string to tight? I went and did build another set and have not served it yet. I do have string clamps.


----------



## skullerud

So where do you guys get your stringmaterial?
No pro shop around here (375 miles to the closest one), and I'm having a hard time finding bcy trophy flo green and royal blue in 1/8# spools online.


----------



## tered

60x is a good start for material.


----------



## jameswk

tered said:


> Need some help. Have built a set of strings and seem to have a lot of rotation in the string. Did i serve the string to tight? I went and did build another set and have not served it yet. I do have string clamps.


2 biggest things that cause rotation are; uneven strand tension when laying threads out and serving to tightly causing the string to rotate while servibg.


----------



## tered

So after laying out the strands should i allow them the set before i serve the tag ends?


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

tered said:


> Need some help. Have built a set of strings and seem to have a lot of rotation in the string. Did i serve the string to tight? I went and did build another set and have not served it yet. I do have string clamps.


If the rotation is severe you have probably served in the wrong direction.


----------



## tered

I have been thinking that also. I twist clockwise and serve clockwise. When serving do i serve the same direction that I twist?


----------



## automan26

The easiest way to visualize the proper direction for serving would be to stand on the string side of the jig head and observe the direction that you must rotate the jig in order to add twists. If you are serving toward the loop, serve opposite of the direction of rotation. If you are serving away from the loop, serve in the same direction as rotation. Serve in such a direction that the string acts like it wants to twist up ahead of the serving tool and untwist behind the serving tool. 

Automan


----------



## jameswk

I like to think of it if your standing behind the serving jig serving away from you... Server clockwise


----------



## Binary cam man

tered said:


> I have been thinking that also. I twist clockwise and serve clockwise. When serving do i serve the same direction that I twist?


Hi, page 1, post#4, paragraph #18. Mr. Huntinsters method . I use this one. Easy to follow . If you use this one and practice it then you will know what everybody else is talking about. Warning ! Do not read too many methods. Some are confusing. This one will show you the way easily. Thank You Mr. Huntinster.


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> I was playing around with a test string today and came up with a simple idea for transferring fishing line to a serving thread spool. I think someone already posted something similar to this earlier, but here is what I made using 6" and 4" X 5/16" course thread carriage bolts, a 5/16" Unistrut square nut, a Unistrut square washer and some assorted nuts and washers I had laying around. When assembled, I can tension the nut holding the fishing line spool to whatever tension I like and chuck the bolt with the empty spool in a drill then start transferring material from one spool to the other. I put some stiff tension on the fishing line spool and I was pleased to find that the fishing line wound very tightly on the smaller spool. Just for giggles I served up a section of an old sting I had laying around and set the serving jig to a high tension and wound away. In the past the serving thread I had wound onto the new spool was never quite tight enough and sometimes it would backlash on itself and knot up if I used too much serving tension. Today I intentionally tried to over-tension the serving jig and it served smoothly and flawlessly.
> 
> In the pic you can see two steal washers and a nylon washer on the top of the spool. There is an identical setup under the spool with a hex nut and a wing nut, which is used as a lock for the hex nut. There is probably no reason to get as fancy as I did and a few less parts will achieve the same result.
> 
> Simple, cheap, and easy--that's what I like.
> 
> Parts List:
> 5/16" X 6" carriage bolt (1)
> 5/16" X 4" carriage bolt (1)
> 5/16" wing nut (3)
> 5/16" hex nut (2)
> 5/16" washer (2)
> 5/16" X 1 1/4" thin fender washers (6)
> 5/16" Unistrut square nut (1)
> 5/16" Unistrut square washer
> I may have left something out in the above list, but if I have, it won't be hard to figure out what else you need.
> 
> Automan


O No another Automan original. HA HA HA LOL. I guess you put the empty spool in a drill to transfer the material. O here's an up date. That HILLMAN coupling nut works great. No more cross threaded nuts. The Teflon dry lube is great also. Worth the$2.87 and $5.00for the dry lube. I'm with you guys with the Chinese fishing line. I've been a sportsman all my life. So I have these old plastic fishing reels that I'm trying to convert into a spooler. I'll post in when I get one to work well. This thread for life. Thank You keep it coming.


----------



## Huntinsker

tered said:


> I have been thinking that also. I twist clockwise and serve clockwise. When serving do i serve the same direction that I twist?


Check out the page 10, post #227 again. The videos explain it since it's hard to describe in text form.


----------



## Binary cam man

Having fun!


----------



## Binary cam man




----------



## jameswk

That's pretty cool


----------



## BowBaker1640

ok but what drives it?


Binary cam man said:


> View attachment 2160983


----------



## Binary cam man

BowBaker1640 said:


> ok but what drives it?


You turn the handle by hand. You use a finger on the other hand to guide the thread up and down the fill spool. Takes about 15 minutes to fill one.


----------



## gbow

Here is my setup for streatching. And a couple of cables in the process for the new prime one sxt!


----------



## BowBaker1640

Binary cam man said:


> You turn the handle by hand. You use a finger on the other hand to guide the thread up and down the fill spool. Takes about 15 minutes to fill one.


oh ok


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> You turn the handle by hand. You use a finger on the other hand to guide the thread up and down the fill spool. Takes about 15 minutes to fill one.


If you could attach a drill to that to turn the spool, then you'd really be in business.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> If you could attach a drill to that to turn the spool, then you'd really be in business.


You can use a drill at very low speed. You have to guide the serving with your finger. If you go too fast the serving would probably burn you. This way you can put the serving on the spool exactly where you want it evenly. That was my first spool. It takes about 15 minutes to spool. I tested it and it works great. It doesn't get loose on you. That's that 20 pound china stuff. White turns clear. Cranked it down in the server no problems.


----------



## jimmyk

Tagged


----------



## Binary cam man

First cable. Octane replica. JACKED!


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> First cable. Octane replica. JACKED!
> View attachment 2162046


I'd put money on that being better than an actual Octane cable. Nicely done.


----------



## MHoward

Well guys…this thread inspiring me to try and make some compound strings has earned some results. My daughter has won 2 state titles in JOAD last month and this month and I believe another girl just won a state title with some strings I made for her. Pumped!


----------



## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> Well guys…this thread inspiring me to try and make some compound strings has earned some results. My daughter has won 2 state titles in JOAD last month and this month and I believe another girl just won a state title with some strings I made for her. Pumped!


Wow! That's fantastic!! Congrats to the shooters and their string builder. :set1_applaud:


----------



## shinobi3

Congrats


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> I'd put money on that being better than an actual Octane cable. Nicely done.


Thanks. Maybe!


----------



## HoosierArcher85

Does anyone have any scrap or strings they don't want or know where I can get my hands on some?......I'm looking for some pieces I can use to practice serving with, tying nocks, D-Loops and so on. I'm really interested in getting into the string building game. Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

HoosierArcher85 said:


> Does anyone have any scrap or strings they don't want or know where I can get my hands on some?......I'm looking for some pieces I can use to practice serving with, tying nocks, D-Loops and so on. I'm really interested in getting into the string building game. Thanks


You may be able to go to your local shop and ask them to hold on to strings that they replace for their customers. Most of my customers ask me to throw their old sets away. If they're like me, they may be willing to set them aside for you.


----------



## caspian

just got done making a replacement cable for a Carbon Matrix, 24 strands of Trophy with 50lb Epoch spectra serving. fits the cam grooves pretty well. I've ordered some 40lb test to try too, it's theoretically only .013" versus .014" for the 50lb, but I find that the 50lb behaves a little "fatter" than the nominal diameter suggests compared to commercial stuff. it's small enough to do end loops without issues but I'd like a tiny bit more "fit" into the cam tracks.


----------



## jameswk

I did notice the 50lb stuff is thicker then .014 probably close to .015 or 16


----------



## caspian

HoosierArcher85 said:


> Does anyone have any scrap or strings they don't want or know where I can get my hands on some?......I'm looking for some pieces I can use to practice serving with, tying nocks, D-Loops and so on. I'm really interested in getting into the string building game. Thanks


buy a couple of cheap recurve strings - they are literally $5 each. you can play with them to destruction.

if you know any trad or longbow shooters, buy some dacron and offer to make a few strings. dacron is ridiculously cheap, if you trash a whole string you're out about 20 cents.


----------



## automan26

jameswk said:


> I did notice the 50lb stuff is thicker then .014 probably close to .015 or 16


I just measured my 50# Chinese fishing line and it measured .018". About the same as 3D but when served it will probably flatten a bit and the finished diameter will the slightly smaller than 3D.

Automan


----------



## BowBaker1640

automan26 said:


> I just measured my 50# Chinese fishing line and it measured .018". About the same as 3D but when served it will probably flatten a bit and the finished diameter will the slightly smaller than 3D.
> 
> Automan


so would 40# be a better choice? I want to order some and want to get the best size


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

BowBaker1640 said:


> so would 40# be a better choice? I want to order some and want to get the best size


The poundage rating of the HMPE lines is all over the place and is best ignored. Some lines rated at 40lb will break at 30lb and some will break at 70lb, they do this so that they can say "our 40lb is thinner than your 40lb", you are better off looking at the diameter of the line. 

I have tried the 4 strand Chinese braid that many guys are using and it serves up better than 3D. I am now using 8 strand Chinese braid and it is identical to Halo. The 20lb 8 strand makes loops that almost look like they are plastic, better than anything else I have seen on a string. The 40lb is perfect for end servings. 70lb makes great center servings for small nocks and 100lb is .021" and is just right for most larger nocks. I use 24 strands of BCY X. Cheapest place to get the 8 strand braid that I have found is 
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-St...er-strong-Strong-Braid-Lines/32259014406.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-...eema-Braided-Fishing-Line-11/32262407568.html
This line is about twice the price of the 4 strand line but once you use it you will never buy commercial serving thread again. It also comes in plenty of colours.


----------



## Huntinsker

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> The poundage rating of the HMPE lines is all over the place and is best ignored. Some lines rated at 40lb will break at 30lb and some will break at 70lb, they do this so that they can say "our 40lb is thinner than your 40lb", you are better off looking at the diameter of the line.
> 
> I have tried the 4 strand Chinese braid that many guys are using and it serves up better than 3D. I am now using 8 strand Chinese braid and it is identical to Halo. The 20lb 8 strand makes loops that almost look like they are plastic, better than anything else I have seen on a string. The 40lb is perfect for end servings. 70lb makes great center servings for small nocks and 100lb is .021" and is just right for most larger nocks. I use 24 strands of BCY X. Cheapest place to get the 8 strand braid that I have found is
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-St...er-strong-Strong-Braid-Lines/32259014406.html
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100-...eema-Braided-Fishing-Line-11/32262407568.html
> This line is about twice the price of the 4 strand line but once you use it you will never buy commercial serving thread again. It also comes in plenty of colours.


How does that hold the color. Colored Halo is pretty flakey and doesn't hold the color well. Does this line flake or does it do well? Also, does the white 40lb go as clear as halo and 3D?


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

Huntinsker said:


> How does that hold the color. Colored Halo is pretty flakey and doesn't hold the color well. Does this line flake or does it do well? Also, does the white 40lb go as clear as halo and 3D?


I haven't tried any of the colors, just black, so have no idea how the color holds. I would expect them to be the same as Halo as they are identical in every other way that I can see.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> How does that hold the color. Colored Halo is pretty flakey and doesn't hold the color well. Does this line flake or does it do well? Also, does the white 40lb go as clear as halo and 3D?


500 meters for $18.39 is a score. If the 8 strand is halo or better. I just looked at it on line and the 50 pound is .37 mm. Or .0145 inch. I tried the 4 strand. Not halo. Maybe 3d. I guess there's only 1 way to find out. I use .014 halo a lot. I hope I'm correct with the 50 pound.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> 500 meters for $18.39 is a score. If the 8 strand is halo or better. I just looked at it on line and the 50 pound is .37 mm. Or .0145 inch. I tried the 4 strand. Not halo. Maybe 3d. I guess there's only 1 way to find out. I use .014 halo a lot. I hope I'm correct with the 50 pound.


That's what I thought too. I may have to get a spool or two and see how it compares.


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

If you want to give it a try you can also get it in 110yd spools as well, just do a search on Aliexpress, but I'm pretty sure you will go back and order more.


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

Check out what they charge for Halo in Australia, and you have to add postage to that price.
http://www.abbeyarchery.com.au/p/BCSH014/BCY+Halo+Serving+.014in.html


----------



## caspian

BowBaker1640 said:


> so would 40# be a better choice? I want to order some and want to get the best size


I just did a cable last night with 50lb and it was OK (just) on 24 strands of Trophy, but a little larger than I would like. I've ordered some 40lb from Epoch to try.


----------



## Binary cam man

This is the second time I've seen your post about the 8 strand line. Is it as strong and durable as halo? Have you tried it on a bow?


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

Binary cam man said:


> This is the second time I've seen your post about the 8 strand line. Is it as strong and durable as halo? Have you tried it on a bow?


It is identical to Halo and serves up just the same and yes I am shooting it on my bows.


----------



## Binary cam man

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Check out what they charge for Halo in Australia, and you have to add postage to that price.
> http://www.abbeyarchery.com.au/p/BCSH014/BCY+Halo+Serving+.014in.html


About $25.00 here in the USA.


----------



## Huntinsker

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Check out what they charge for Halo in Australia, and you have to add postage to that price.
> http://www.abbeyarchery.com.au/p/BCSH014/BCY+Halo+Serving+.014in.html


Wow that's crazy.


----------



## caspian

that's a combination of Australia tax and Abbey tax.

Australia tax - shipping half way around the world, predatory customs duties (given there is no local archery industry to protect ), and exchange rate.

Abbey tax - let's just say you can get most anything they stock for 10-20% less elsewhere without much looking.




AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Check out what they charge for Halo in Australia, and you have to add postage to that price.
> http://www.abbeyarchery.com.au/p/BCSH014/BCY+Halo+Serving+.014in.html


just ordered some 40lb Spectra braid off Epoch to go with the 50 and 70lb I have now. 300 metres = $12 shipped, beats $35+ for 100m of much the same thing sold by the bobbin.


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

caspian said:


> that's a combination of Australia tax and Abbey tax.
> 
> Australia tax - shipping half way around the world, predatory customs duties (given there is no local archery industry to protect ), and exchange rate.
> 
> Abbey tax - let's just say you can get most anything they stock for 10-20% less elsewhere without much looking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just ordered some 40lb Spectra braid off Epoch to go with the 50 and 70lb I have now. 300 metres = $12 shipped, beats $35+ for 100m of much the same thing sold by the bobbin.


Did you order the 4 strand or 8 strand line?


----------



## dwagoner

automan26 said:


> I just measured my 50# Chinese fishing line and it measured .018". About the same as 3D but when served it will probably flatten a bit and the finished diameter will the slightly smaller than 3D.
> 
> Automan


bcy 3D will always lay flatter as its a 3 strand braid serving, 3D will serve flatter than 014 halo, cause halo stays rounder. seems wierd just by the numbers but it does, about 002/003 flatter 

spectre fibers wont flatten as much as servings like 3D will.


----------



## Binary cam man

dwagoner said:


> bcy 3D will always lay flatter as its a 3 strand braid serving, 3D will serve flatter than 014 halo, cause halo stays rounder. seems wierd just by the numbers but it does, about 002/003 flatter
> 
> spectre fibers wont flatten as much as servings like 3D will.


Should we base our measurements on 3d? That means 3d .014 served is .012 or .011. Halo stays .014? Is this what we want, a serving that gets smaller?


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Should we base our measurements on 3d? That means 3d .014 served is .012 or .011. Halo stays .014? Is this what we want, a serving that gets smaller?


3d is actually twisted, not braided like Halo or these braided fishing lines that people have posted about. Because of that, the 3d initial diameter is larger but when it's laid out, it goes flatter. According to BCY 3d is actually .016" so because it goes flatter than Halo, it may actually serve up smaller than .014 halo depending on your serving tension. Like dwagoner said, it usually flattens to about .002-.003 flatter and ends up being like a .014-.013" Halo. It's really not much different in the grand scheme of things. 

Anyway because this fishing line is braided and not twisted, we can expect that it'll behave much more like Halo than 3d so I'd base my measurements off of Halo when comparing this fishing line. 

You don't necessarily want a serving that "gets smaller". It's not a bad thing if it does, it's just a property of that particular serving. It's just something that you need to consider when making a string so that you can fit the string correctly to the cam grooves. Really you should be just fine if you use anything from a .007-.018" end serving as long as those are the actual measurements. I'd guess that most of the colored materials run a little larger just because of the added color to the line.

For what it's worth, I'm going to order a spool of the 8 strand braid in a 40lb test. That should be .0126" diameter by their chart. If it's a little larger like people have reported, then it'll be pretty close to a .014" actual diameter.


----------



## Binary cam man

That's why I asked. We talked about buying 8 strand line. The next thing I'm hearing is 40 pound. I went to the site and 50 pound measured out to be .0145. I thought very close to .014. And once you serve it it should get smaller. Perfect. Not so. Their measurement is off. Good to know. 40 pound it is then. Thank You Mr. Huntinsker.


----------



## dwagoner

HoosierArcher85 said:


> Does anyone have any scrap or strings they don't want or know where I can get my hands on some?......I'm looking for some pieces I can use to practice serving with, tying nocks, D-Loops and so on. I'm really interested in getting into the string building game. Thanks


hit me up middle or end of next week, i can prolly help you out with some free test stuff to play with.


----------



## dwagoner

Binary cam man said:


> Should we base our measurements on 3d? That means 3d .014 served is .012 or .011. Halo stays .014? Is this what we want, a serving that gets smaller?


theres only one size of 3D serving, all the same. i have seen different measurements posted but its all 3 strand braided material. 2X is the same stuff just 2 strands... i dont use it but for tying in stuff and works great. just my preference.

just remember on the same string, 3D will have a slightly smaller served diameter over 014 halo.


----------



## Tacitus

after buying this stuff for a while and making many strings with it i will tell you this..... 0.40 60lbs according to the chart is as close to 3d as i can tell. Now i have never used halo before but i have some 0.20 20lbs and it is super fine stuff but lays down really nice and will make a string sit down in the cams and tracks really low and nice.


----------



## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> 3d is actually twisted, not braided like Halo .


correct, i keep calling it in correct, brain freeze.. i see a pic of a womans hair braided and it in my mind when talking about it but keep saying other wise LOL

thx for correction...


----------



## dwagoner

Tacitus said:


> after buying this stuff for a while and making many strings with it i will tell you this..... 0.40 60lbs according to the chart is as close to 3d as i can tell. Now i have never used halo before but i have some 0.20 20lbs and it is super fine stuff but lays down really nice and will make a string sit down in the cams and tracks really low and nice.


you should get some 3D also, its quite cheap serving but top quality, theres a perfect place for both servings, where they perform well, serving does play more part than just protecting the string strands, it gives a bow different feel depending on what you use where, and how well it lasts.... a good knowledge of which to use where on bows is crucial for sure.....

PLUS its near impossible to break 3D, one thing i love about the serving LOL


----------



## Binary cam man

dwagoner said:


> theres only one size of 3D serving, all the same. i have seen different measurements posted but its all 3 strand braided material. 2X is the same stuff just 2 strands... i dont use it but for tying in stuff and works great. just my preference.
> 
> Thanks. What I do know about 3d is, it is used exclusively for end servings. I use halo. I get to pick what size I want to use. I have a string I bought 2 years ago from a company. Hint WC . I called them and told them what I wanted. They did not do what I said . Because of this site I gained a lot of knowledge . And I bet there is fishing line serving on it also. Not halo like I asked for. And to make things worse, they wrote 3d serving on the package. I never put it on. Use it as a guide. Unserved loops. I like my loops served. $115.00 . THANK YOU AND THANKS TO ALL ON THIS SITE.


----------



## caspian

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Did you order the 4 strand or 8 strand line?


looks like it's the 4-strand. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/350613803316

will see how it goes, at the price I won't cry if it doesn't work out. the 50lb feels like Halo going on, almost slippery to the touch, but it bites the string well enough. I've been using the 70lb pretty solidly for making recurve strings for a couple of months now, those guys wear out top loops quickly stringing and destringing. no complaints so far, the abrasion resistance seems quite acceptable.


----------



## Binary cam man

Did anybody order fishing line and get this advertisement? New serving material? LOL.


----------



## automan26

On the string I used black, 50# Chinese fishing line. On the cables I used black 3D. The Chinese serving measures .107" and the 3D measures .103". Basically the two materials are identical except for the fact that the Chinese is made from better material and is priced more reasonably. I had thought that the Chinese would flatten out a bit more than 3D, but it looks like I was wrong.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> On the string I used black, 50# Chinese fishing line. On the cables I used black 3D. The Chinese serving measures .107" and the 3D measures .103". Basically the two materials are identical except for the fact that the Chinese is made from better material and is priced more reasonably. I had thought that the Chinese would flatten out a bit more than 3D, but it looks like I was wrong.
> 
> Automan


Good info and those threads look great! Love that combo.


----------



## jameswk

yeah is that regular yellow not flourescent?


----------



## automan26

jameswk said:


> yeah is that regular yellow not flourescent?


That is Fury-- Yellow (not flo.), Black, and Silver. I think it is 14-4-14. I also used 50# Chinese for the center serving. So far it is holding up well. I call these strings my Never-Wax strings because if I wax them they are going to last a long time and I'm looking for an excuse to replace them even though I just put them on the bow. I have put this combo on some friend's bows and they are really eye-catchers down at the range.

The loop material is from a company that sells parts for window blinds and I tied in the peep using yellow, 80# Berkeley Spiderwire.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> That is Fury-- Yellow (not flo.), Black, and Silver. I think it is 14-4-14. I also used 50# Chinese for the center serving. So far it is holding up well. I call these strings my Never-Wax strings because if I wax them they are going to last a long time and I'm looking for an excuse to replace them even though I just put them on the bow. I have put this combo on some friend's bows and they are really eye-catchers down at the range.
> 
> The loop material is from a company that sells parts for window blinds and I tied in the peep using yellow, 80# Berkeley Spiderwire.
> 
> Automan


The fury looks great! My next project is a draw board. I've been without one too long. I've been on the site and seen them. But I'd love to see yours. I value your opinion. Your string jig is excellent. I'm actually making compound strings. Thank You.


----------



## RobColella

caspian said:


> looks like it's the 4-strand. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/350613803316
> 
> will see how it goes, at the price I won't cry if it doesn't work out. the 50lb feels like Halo going on, almost slippery to the touch, but it bites the string well enough. I've been using the 70lb pretty solidly for making recurve strings for a couple of months now, those guys wear out top loops quickly stringing and destringing. no complaints so far, the abrasion resistance seems quite acceptable.





automan26 said:


> That is Fury-- Yellow (not flo.), Black, and Silver. I think it is 14-4-14. I also used 50# Chinese for the center serving. So far it is holding up well. I call these strings my Never-Wax strings because if I wax them they are going to last a long time and I'm looking for an excuse to replace them even though I just put them on the bow. I have put this combo on some friend's bows and they are really eye-catchers down at the range.
> 
> 
> The loop material is from a company that sells parts for window blinds and I tied in the peep using yellow, 80# Berkeley Spiderwire.
> 
> Automan


Good lookin" threads Automan. I love the color combination. Is the 50# line you used the 4 or 8 strand braided line?


----------



## HoosierArcher85

Thanks Huntinsker I'll check some shops.


----------



## BWBOW

BCY "x". 22 strands teal 2 strands silver. Used white halo serving and tightened it up a bit gave it a silver look

Matthews switchback.


----------



## jameswk

👆👍👍


----------



## tered

Will i put my strings on my bow and did my peep tuning. First i want to thank everyone on this site. You all are great. This is my peep tuning at 4 yards.


----------



## Huntinsker

BWBOW said:


> BCY "x". 22 strands teal 2 strands silver. Used white halo serving and tightened it up a bit gave it a silver look
> 
> Matthews switchback.


Nice looking threads there. When doing white serving over a dark color it really has to be a "really" dark color like black or blue or the under colors should be bright, flo colors. It's very hard to get good clear serving that doesn't look "milky" over anything that's not very dark or very bright. So if you were making the same color proportion but the colors were flo orange and black, you'd probably have a better chance of it looking clear. The teal and silver are both "moderate" tones and clear serving over them, as you know, may not look that clear.

If you're using white serving material to get actual white serving, it won't happen. It'd be cool if there was actual white serving, although it would get dirty very quickly, but pulling any white material tight makes it go somewhat clear.


----------



## olliedog

Hi, just wanted to drop in and say thanks to all who have provided input to this thread about threads! I had to try it. Just finished stretching my first cable last night. Let it relax overnight and measured it this morning. Pretty much dead on (within a 32nd of an inch at least at 100lbs). Tonight I'll add end servings. Again, thanks for this thread guys. Chris

Well, I got home late and only had time for the can end serving. Will try the yoke ends tomorrow. I'm not in love with the way I wrapped it over where the bottom loop comes together but I think its solid. Will add some pics. Feel free to point out whatever. Thanks.


----------



## lunghit

Just wanted to show the threads I made for my Perfexion. These are BCY X in sunset orange and silver with a black pin.


----------



## jameswk

olliedog said:


> Hi, just wanted to drop in and say thanks to all who have provided input to this thread about threads! I had to try it. Just finished stretching my first cable last night. Let it relax overnight and measured it this morning. Pretty much dead on (within a 32nd of an inch at least at 100lbs). Tonight I'll add end servings. Again, thanks for this thread guys. Chris
> 
> Well, I got home late and only had time for the can end serving. Will try the yoke ends tomorrow. I'm not in love with the way I wrapped it over where the bottom loop comes together but I think its solid. Will add some pics. Feel free to point out whatever. Thanks.


I think that and serving looks pretty good did you serve to the loop or away from it?


----------



## olliedog

Thanks WK. The pic makes it look a bit smoother than it is. Served toward the post then used a piece of scrap nylon serving to pull the tag end through instead of attempting to back serve in tight quarters. I left the bcyx tag ends long and wrapped past them while serving so that they were also exposed when done. So ultimately I had 3 tag ends to trim and burn. I'm guessing that might not be common practice? Should I have come red them with the end serving so that when done the only tag to melt is the end serving? Thanks.


----------



## olliedog

Darned auto complete on this phone has contributed to a spelling wording error above.


----------



## jameswk

olliedog said:


> Thanks WK. The pic makes it look a bit smoother than it is. Served toward the post then used a piece of scrap nylon serving to pull the tag end through instead of attempting to back serve in tight quarters. I left the bcyx tag ends long and wrapped past them while serving so that they were also exposed when done. So ultimately I had 3 tag ends to trim and burn. I'm guessing that might not be common practice? Should I have come red them with the end serving so that when done the only tag to melt is the end serving? Thanks.


Yeah you don't want to burn your string material it will run against your other strands and Frey... I don't think I can clearly picture how you did that all you need to do is wrap your loops with the x tag ends some people will close the loop with that I don't like to but it's choice. And just cut it off close to the string after back serving no need to burn. Once you serve over it it will be held tightly in place


----------



## jameswk

There's a video somewhere in here from 2xlung about pinstripe he shows clearly how to wrap the loops and just cut your loose end


----------



## redoaks

Subscribing. ..


----------



## Huntinsker

olliedog said:


> Hi, just wanted to drop in and say thanks to all who have provided input to this thread about threads! I had to try it. Just finished stretching my first cable last night. Let it relax overnight and measured it this morning. Pretty much dead on (within a 32nd of an inch at least at 100lbs). Tonight I'll add end servings. Again, thanks for this thread guys. Chris
> 
> Well, I got home late and only had time for the can end serving. Will try the yoke ends tomorrow. I'm not in love with the way I wrapped it over where the bottom loop comes together but I think its solid. Will add some pics. Feel free to point out whatever. Thanks.


Doesn't look too bad for the first attempt. One thing I do to try and get a smoother transition is when I back serve the first side, I make sure that get it as flat as possible. Then when I close the loop with the other side, I pull the tag end into that back served portion on the other side so it flattens it even further. Each time I wrap and pull, it flattens it more and more. It's hard to describe in text. You'll get it. It just takes practice. The jig looks great anyway. :thumbs_up


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

lunghit said:


> Just wanted to show the threads I made for my Perfexion. These are BCY X in sunset orange and silver with a black pin.



Those colors go very good together, even matches the Bowa.


----------



## olliedog

Thanks Huntinsker and James. I'll dig up that post and video tonight. I had a feeling I should have hit pause and waited last night but I needed to work on something fun so I went for it. I'll try to get a better pic of the jig, I adopted a few design mods. The best part was I finally found a use for some old c-channel that I salvaged from an surplus server rack. That stuff had been collecting dust and spiderwebs in the corner for years. I can see the need for some bracing at the Unistrut L-Brackets already. I can only estimate my poundage right now, a friend has a load cell at work I can use to test the spring but I need to get over there btwn 9-5 and that's been hard to do lately. So according to McMaster Carr the spring is at 530 lbs at 50% deflection or 1" and 265 lbs. at 25% deflection or 1.5" long. That seemed pretty linear so I just made a chart and am using that for practice. Will test for real before building the string. 
best - Chris


----------



## lunghit

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Those colors go very good together, even matches the Bowa.


HAHA yes they do. Love that press.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I'll post the link for you when I get to a computer!! . And lunghit, those colors are rocking. Great job!!!


----------



## lunghit

2X_LUNG said:


> I'll post the link for you when I get to a computer!! . And lunghit, those colors are rocking. Great job!!!


Thanks!


----------



## bonecollector66

Tag


----------



## 2X_LUNG

olliedog said:


> Thanks Huntinsker and James. I'll dig up that post and video tonight. I had a feeling I should have hit pause and waited last night but I needed to work on something fun so I went for it. I'll try to get a better pic of the jig, I adopted a few design mods. The best part was I finally found a use for some old c-channel that I salvaged from an surplus server rack. That stuff had been collecting dust and spiderwebs in the corner for years. I can see the need for some bracing at the Unistrut L-Brackets already. I can only estimate my poundage right now, a friend has a load cell at work I can use to test the spring but I need to get over there btwn 9-5 and that's been hard to do lately. So according to McMaster Carr the spring is at 530 lbs at 50% deflection or 1" and 265 lbs. at 25% deflection or 1.5" long. That seemed pretty linear so I just made a chart and am using that for practice. Will test for real before building the string.
> best - Chris


Here is the video...enjoy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


----------



## olliedog

Thanks!


----------



## dwagoner

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Those colors go very good together, even matches the Bowa.


I think Orange is a great color, looks awesome even with brorn....


----------



## dwagoner

olliedog said:


> I can only estimate my poundage right now, a friend has a load cell at work I can use to test the spring but I need to get over there btwn 9-5 and that's been hard to do lately. So according to McMaster Carr the spring is at 530 lbs at 50% deflection or 1" and 265 lbs. at 25% deflection or 1.5" long. That seemed pretty linear so I just made a chart and am using that for practice. Will test for real before building the string.
> best - Chris


do u have PN off spring your using from Mcmaster ????


----------



## bowman104

2X_LUNG said:


> Clear serving looks nice...


How do you get it to go so clear? What material are you using? Fantastic strings by the way


----------



## 2X_LUNG

bowman104 said:


> How do you get it to go so clear? What material are you using? Fantastic strings by the way


Thanks! I use halo. Just use a little tension on the Beiter.


----------



## jtnm

2X_LUNG said:


> Thanks! I use halo. Just use a little tension on the Beiter.


Looks awesome. Are you using some clarifier? And what tension poundage are you using for the halo?


----------



## lunghit

Looking to buy a dial caliper and was wondering if there is any special type I need to measure finished serving?


----------



## jameswk

Hey lunghit just wanted to show you your colors inspired me when I did the Martin s4 scepter shoot through system


----------



## tered

That is some sick strings.


----------



## jameswk

Thanks man it looks awesome on this bow 43 1/4 ata 5 string system there's a whole lot it thread here!


----------



## tered

Yes that is a lot of threads. But the color is great. In the sun they will pop. I made a set of black and floyellow for my bow. They shine in the sun. I am going to build a set of flogreen and flow yellow with a red pin. Not sure what i will get.


----------



## jameswk

Those will look awesome!


----------



## tered

I will post some pictures when i get done


----------



## tered

My test string


----------



## tered

Sorry phone issues. I will try later to post


----------



## tered

String test for colors


----------



## HuntGolf SkiVT

This thread has inspired me to try and re serve a cable end on my Franken bow. I have Elite cams and I believe the finished serving size is supposed to be .100", I assume smaller would be OK. I do not know what size or type of serving to use and have no way of measuring. The cable is 24 strand 452x. 
Can anyone give me any advice for serving, I will have to buy a jig and material. 
Thank you


----------



## BowBaker1640

very cool color combo!


tered said:


> String test for colors


----------



## tered

HuntGolf SkiVT said:


> This thread has inspired me to try and re serve a cable end on my Franken bow. I have Elite cams and I believe the finished serving size is supposed to be .100", I assume smaller would be OK. I do not know what size or type of serving to use and have no way of measuring. The cable is 24 strand 452x.
> Can anyone give me any advice for serving, I will have to buy a jig and material.
> Thank you


If you buy a string jig and stretcher you can make one or buy one. I bought one from Baker Archery Products. He is on this AT if you YouTube it you can see his jig.


----------



## jameswk

HuntGolf SkiVT said:


> This thread has inspired me to try and re serve a cable end on my Franken bow. I have Elite cams and I believe the finished serving size is supposed to be .100", I assume smaller would be OK. I do not know what size or type of serving to use and have no way of measuring. The cable is 24 strand 452x.
> Can anyone give me any advice for serving, I will have to buy a jig and material.
> Thank you


Bieter winder and a spool of halo .014 or 3d depending on how aggressive your cams are


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

The 8 strand HMPE is the same as Halo and about 1/8th the price, takes a couple of weeks to arrive though. 40lb is close to .014" Halo.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015...lament-Braided-Fishing-Lines/32264152152.html


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE

This is what I use but I buy it in 500m spools.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-St...eema-109-Yard-10LB-15LB-20LB/32255277266.html


----------



## Huntinsker

Good looking threads guys. I made some silver/black with flo orange pins for my HC too. Really like that combo. Not the best pic but you get the idea.


----------



## jameswk

Yeah that combo of colors is just sick any way you lay them out


----------



## dwagoner

lunghit said:


> Looking to buy a dial caliper and was wondering if there is any special type I need to measure finished serving?


dont have to get too crazy on a set of calipers....check craftsman or other comparable tool stores by you


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> dont have to get too crazy on a set of calipers....check craftsman or other comparable tool stores by you


Yep. I had lost my old set so I picked up a new digital set from Home Depot. It reads to the .0001" so it's plenty good for string building.


----------



## b0w_bender

2X_LUNG said:


> Here is the video...enjoy
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


This was an excellent vid, I linked to it from the tutorial section of my website. 
Great job!


----------



## lunghit

dwagoner said:


> dont have to get too crazy on a set of calipers....check craftsman or other comparable tool stores by you





Huntinsker said:


> Yep. I had lost my old set so I picked up a new digital set from Home Depot. It reads to the .0001" so it's plenty good for string building.


Thanks for the info fellas. Going to pick one up soon


----------



## 2X_LUNG

b0w_bender said:


> This was an excellent vid, I linked to it from the tutorial section of my website.
> Great job!


Thanks bow bender! I feel privileged!!!


----------



## olliedog

Thanks 2x. The video was really helpful.


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Guys if I was using 24 strands of BCYX how many strands of Fury would be comparable..? 
Thanks ahead of time


----------



## 2X_LUNG

28 string. 30 cables


----------



## Binary cam man

Just completed my first set for my D350 LE. Octane replica. Jacked and nocked.


----------



## jameswk

Those look sick!


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


> Those look sick!


Thanks.


----------



## automan26

Binary cam man said:


> Just completed my first set for my D350 LE. Octane replica. Jacked and nocked.
> View attachment 2180486


Just wait till you drill your first X with those new threads. That's a feeling that can't be matched because you will realize that for the first time in your life, you own every part of the X starting with the string you built yourself. It won't be long until a friend sees what you can do and asks you to build a set for him. It is probably too late to tell you this, but you are hooked and won't be able to rest until you find an excuse to build another set real soon. This Friday I plan to trash the best set of almost new threads I have ever built just because the bug bit me and I have to build something else. But, I'm not addicted; I can stop anytime I like, I just don't want to stop right now.

You can call yourself an official string builder my friend--*U dun gud!!!!!*

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> Just wait till you drill your first X with those new threads. That's a feeling that can't be matched because you will realize that for the first time in your life, you own every part of the X starting with the string you built yourself. It won't be long until a friend sees what you can do and asks you to build a set for him. It is probably too late to tell you this, but you are hooked and won't be able to rest until you find an excuse to build another set real soon. This Friday I plan to trash the best set of almost new threads I have ever built just because the bug bit me and I have to build something else. But, I'm not addicted; I can stop anytime I like, I just don't want to stop right now.
> 
> You can call yourself an official string builder my friend--*U dun gud!!!!!*
> 
> Automan


Thanks Automan,I know what you mean.


----------



## Armyof1

i am going to be finding the materials to build this one for myself . i have made strings before but this jig would make it so much more simple to do .


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Just completed my first set for my D350 LE. Octane replica. Jacked and nocked.
> View attachment 2180486


:thumbs_up


----------



## Huntinsker

Armyof1 said:


> i am going to be finding the materials to build this one for myself . i have made strings before but this jig would make it so much more simple to do .


Yep. Automan came up with a pretty sweet idea for a simple jig, that's for sure.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> :thumbs_up


Thanks


----------



## Armyof1

If you use a hair dryer on low and heat the wax as you work it into the string with your fingers it will help get the wax all the way into the string and it also will make your string shinny when you are done


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Armyof1 said:


> If you use a hair dryer on low and heat the wax as you work it into the string with your fingers it will help get the wax all the way into the string and it also will make your string shinny when you are done


You can use the hair dryer if you choose to do so.
Upon the advice of many reputable stringbuilders, bcy, and brownell, I will continue to rely on the heat generated by rubbing the wax in with my fingers. 
There is an abundance of wax already in the string fibers from the manufacturing process, this is why we dewax and burnish during the build process.


----------



## Huntinsker

NoDeerInIowa said:


> You can use the hair dryer if you choose to do so.
> Upon the advice of many reputable stringbuilders, bcy, and brownell, I will continue to rely on the heat generated by rubbing the wax in with my fingers.
> There is an abundance of wax already in the string fibers from the manufacturing process, this is why we dewax and burnish during the build process.


Agreed. I definitely don't recommend using any heat source other than the friction from rubbing the wax in with your fingers.


----------



## jameswk

You don't need to have all that wax. I actually run it with my fingers then take a piece of 3d wrap it once and run it down the string lightly to take off the excess.


----------



## Armyof1

I have gone through this one post at a time to the end and i must say i cant wait to get my jig built and get some materials to get started building my own strings for my bow . but i have one question . has anyof you tried building stings and cables for an X bow with this set up.


----------



## v5cvbb

I made my first string today for my son's Infinite Edge. I used 18 strands of 8125. I haven't calibrated the spring on my tensioner but I had it pretty tight. Only problem I ran into was I didn't get a nice round bundle after burnishing. I tried at high and low tension but no luck. It was single color string at 56.25".

Any suggestions?


----------



## caspian

jameswk said:


> You don't need to have all that wax. I actually run it with my fingers then take a piece of 3d wrap it once and run it down the string lightly to take off the excess.


I am also a fan of garroting strings lightly, both during building and afterwards maintenance. bit of string, bit of serving, length of dental floss all work OK. I drop my offcuts into the u-channel of my jig and there's always something to use.


----------



## Armyof1

Going parts shopping tomorrow to get what is needed to build one


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


> You don't need to have all that wax. I actually run it with my fingers then take a piece of 3d wrap it once and run it down the string lightly to take off the excess.


This is my method to apply wax. Use it sparingly. Place bow in press to relax the threads. Put on clean rubber gloves,so that the oils and dirt in the pores of your fingers don't get on the threads. On light colored threads it will be noticeable. Then,lightly press in a little wax with your fingers. Do not rub, it will bring up the fibers. Release the press. Now you have waxed the inside of the bundle. No heat. Then I use cotton thread,that my wife picks up at the craft supply store for me. I wrap it around once and burnish very lightly to remove the excess and not to bring up the fibers. Trying to give back because all of you have helped so much. But if you don't care about this,it's a good excuse to build new threads. Like I'm going to do now. This will be my second set. HOOKED! Thanks.


----------



## jameswk

i think 60x does it very similar to that thanks for sharing your method


----------



## Armyof1

guys i found a double strut on Mcmaster in a 10' piece part number 3208T45 check it out


----------



## Binary cam man

Armyof1 said:


> guys i found a double strut on Mcmaster in a 10' piece part number 3208T45 check it out


I suggest following the AUTOMAN JIG to the T. The cheapest and the BEST.


----------



## Binary cam man

Armyof1 said:


> guys i found a double strut on Mcmaster in a 10' piece part number 3208T45 check it out


Another suggestion, I went to LOWES, they have everything for this jig. That was a Saturday and Sunday had it built. Ps don't forget the 1/4 20 taps. Buy more than one they break. Good Luck and have fun.


----------



## Donald1800

Armyof1 said:


> guys i found a double strut on Mcmaster in a 10' piece part number 3208T45 check it out


*Outstanding!* I personally was planning to braze a Back-to-Back set for my needs. And they even have it in Stainless Steel! Good catch. Thank you.


----------



## Armyof1

your welcome Donald1800


----------



## Huntinsker

Armyof1 said:


> guys i found a double strut on Mcmaster in a 10' piece part number 3208T45 check it out


Not a bad price at $63.41 but it ships by motor freight so I bet shipping is crazy expensive.


----------



## Binary cam man

A few days ago I saw a limited run of RPM 360's with all black threads. It started me thinking. This would be an awesome second project for my D350 LE. First ordered some jacks from 60X. Then got started. Like AUTOMAN said, I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime. Just don't want to. This is keeping with the theme of the D350 LE red and black. Only one cable so far. I will post the set when I get her done.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

how is this for my very first pin stripe? sits on the stretcher right now probably leave over night and rest all day tomorrow before serving, just cant decide red or black serving.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

purple and flo green


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

i am not sure if it has been covered in this thread or not but when doing the pin stripe you don't have to separate the main bundle from the pin strip top and bottom with two golf tees or whatever you use. i separate them out away from main colors then when dividing through on one side of the bundle the pin stripe goes above the tee and on the other side it goes below. do that on both loop ends making sure that the pin stripe is on the same side of the tee for example facing the string the pin stripe closest to you would be above the tee on both ends of the string and the farther pinstripe would be below. and when twisting put 1/3 of the twists in then remove the tees. i like to remove the tee separating the main bundle first one both sides and then remove the pin tees. and finish your twists. that flo green pin looks good to me. pics do no justice to it, and i never even had to chase it it was perfect when done twisting.


----------



## Binary cam man

elitehoythunter said:


> how is this for my very first pin stripe? sits on the stretcher right now probably leave over night and rest all day tomorrow before serving, just cant decide red or black serving.
> View attachment 2186133


Awesome Clear serving, show it off.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

actually clear never crossed my mind. gonna have to buy some


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

and i can not believe how well the green stands out, that is a 10-2-10 layout so only a single strand pin stripe and never chased it


----------



## Binary cam man

elitehoythunter said:


> and i can not believe how well the green stands out, that is a 10-2-10 layout so only a single strand pin stripe and never chased it


That's the beauty of string building. Everybody has a method. And here we can share it. Thank You. Ok awesome string! If your still open for suggestion flo green center serving and string stop. The the rest of it clear/white. Only a suggestion. Can't wait to see the cables.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Already finished the serving and gave them to my friend forgot to take more pics


----------



## lunghit

jameswk said:


> Hey lunghit just wanted to show you your colors inspired me when I did the Martin s4 scepter shoot through system


Just saw this now and they look great. Orange is my favorite color on a bow string. Glad I helped lol.


----------



## jameswk

Yeah man thanks! Got a lot of attention from this set and the guy is so stoked!


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


> Yeah man thanks! Got a lot of attention from this set and the guy is so stoked!


Awesome! I never get tired of seeing these threads. Wish I could see more. I can see a hint of some serving . Silver and black? Nifty. Nice work. The best!


----------



## jameswk

The cams are really aggressive in that bow so I used black halo .014 but where there wasn't any thing to worry about I used the color of the pin stripe to serve


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

just out of curiosity what is everyones stretching process?

i use about 50-75 pounds to equalize the tension on the strands for maybe 5 minutes, but first i start the tag ends because everytime i have put any tension before starting my tag ends i end up with uneven tension because when i loosen the tagg end to start it i undo the work to eqalize strand tension so i will do 2 wraps on each tag end and then tension to about 75 pounds and you can see the strands equalizing if you watch closely. when i feel that the strands are set i separate my bundles and finish my tagg ends. i do not entirely close the loop at this tome unless its a yoke, i just run the tagg through the bundles a few times and pull kinda tight. making sure my colors are separated properly i will run the tension up to about half the final stretching tension. and lightly burnish each bundle with a piece of 3d. leave it at that tension for an hour or so then twist, and generally when i am done twisting i have right close to 300 pounds of tension. i crank the poundage up to where i want it then lightly burnish the string, and let sit there over night normally and rest for then next day and serve the next evening. then after serving i usually leave it on the stretcher at 350 or so pounds over night to help settle any incidentle differences in the twist rates under the serving when the serving was applied, then paper clip the ends and wait for the bow they go on


----------



## b0w_bender

elitehoythunter said:


> just out of curiosity what is everyones stretching process?
> 
> i use about 50-75 pounds to equalize the tension on the strands for maybe 5 minutes, but first i start the tag ends because everytime i have put any tension before starting my tag ends i end up with uneven tension because when i loosen the tagg end to start it i undo the work to eqalize strand tension so i will do 2 wraps on each tag end and then tension to about 75 pounds and you can see the strands equalizing if you watch closely. when i feel that the strands are set i separate my bundles and finish my tagg ends. i do not entirely close the loop at this tome unless its a yoke, i just run the tagg through the bundles a few times and pull kinda tight. making sure my colors are separated properly i will run the tension up to about half the final stretching tension. and lightly burnish each bundle with a piece of 3d. leave it at that tension for an hour or so then twist, and generally when i am done twisting i have right close to 300 pounds of tension. i crank the poundage up to where i want it then lightly burnish the string, and let sit there over night normally and rest for then next day and serve the next evening. then after serving i usually leave it on the stretcher at 350 or so pounds over night to help settle any incidentle differences in the twist rates under the serving when the serving was applied, then paper clip the ends and wait for the bow they go on


It may be some overkill but certainly a sound process particularly if it is working for you. The equalizing of strands has a lot to do with the jig setup and how inconsistent the wraps are to start with. So if your process is working for you and your jig then I would stick with it. The only problem I see is how long it takes you to get a string completed. In my case my jig is built like a tank and is super stiff so I get no flex and not inconsistencies in my wraps so I complete the tag ends without extra tension and then I crank it up to 300 pounds and wait 20 min and then I start the twist and serve process. I've been really happy with my results very little peep rotation and the strings seem to remain consistent. But like I said this is my jig and may not work with your setup.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

i use automans jig. not really sure of the flex but i bolted my strut to the table i work from. i think having your strut braced is important.

the stretch time is not necessary that lomg. but normally i dont have another set to build so i take my sweet old time. so far have had 0 complaints, but we will see ow it goes


----------



## Huntinsker

I finish my loops before putting tension on the string. I don't have problems with uneven stand tension. I finish the loops, bring it up to 200lbs or so for about 3-5 minutes and then twist. After twisting I take it to 350lbs and burnish. Depending on the length and material it'll stay at that tension for 1/2 to 3 hours (I'm in no hurry when I build). Then they rest overnight and I serve them at 350lbs the next day. They get another rest over night and then I do the final measurement and installation. Probably over kill and definitely not the fastest way but I get good results and that's what matters.


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Built my first set today. Ordered jigs from Baker Archery Products, very nice jigs!


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

does anybody have the serving specs for a hoyt carbon element RKT number 3 cam?


----------



## Huntinsker

elitehoythunter said:


> does anybody have the serving specs for a hoyt carbon element RKT number 3 cam?











You can also find string specs in this thread. Just use the search thread function.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showt...1&highlight=Carbon Element RKT#post1067609231


----------



## lunghit

Ledbetter Buck said:


> View attachment 2187663
> 
> Built my first set today. Ordered jigs from Baker Archery Products, very nice jigs!


Great job. I see you went straight to a pin stripe for your first set. You are brave lol


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Just went for the gusto lol. By the time I had the 2 cables done an was on the string had it figured out pretty good. Gonna put um on bow tomorrow an hope for no peep rotation!


----------



## Huntinsker

Ledbetter Buck said:


> Just went for the gusto lol. By the time I had the 2 cables done an was on the string had it figured out pretty good. Gonna put um on bow tomorrow an hope for no peep rotation!


Good luck! I'm rooting for ya!


----------



## Augur

rite to the point... built mine with a few of my own mods....looking forward to building my own strings soon.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

thanks huntinsker


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Great work fellas


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

the ones for that carbon element will be flo orange and black brownell fury with clear serving, i just hope the sample pack is enough to complete one set.

now what yall think for clear serving? 3d, mini, or 2x?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

It'll be plenty for a set. 3d won't be too clear and 2x won't hold up too well for cable ends. I'd use halo!!


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

anyone tried the mini? for clear serving i thought i saw a thread with Rayknight using it a while back but cant seem to find it


----------



## 2X_LUNG

That ^ is halo


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

dang thats very clear. did you use clarifier? and how tight did you serve it?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Yes I did. Tad tighter than normal


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

nice!

i have a bear paw serving tool on the way. how is the tension control on it? if you've ever used one


----------



## 2X_LUNG

No clue. I use beiters


----------



## automan26

WD40 is an amazing clarifier for clear Chinese fishing line. Spray it on a rag and rub it on the serving. You will be impressed.

Automan


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Thanks automan


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Started second set this morning. Used what I learned from first set yesterday and changed a few things. These turned out really good, at least I think they did!


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Put my first set on that I made yesterday and shot about 50 arrows, all good. Really digging this string building


----------



## Huntinsker

Ledbetter Buck said:


> View attachment 2188088
> View attachment 2188089
> 
> Started second set this morning. Used what I learned from first set yesterday and changed a few things. These turned out really good, at least I think they did!





Ledbetter Buck said:


> View attachment 2188092
> Put my first set on that I made yesterday and shot about 50 arrows, all good. Really digging this string building


Those look great! Really like the color combos.


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

think I have the tag end serving and end serving down finally, still tryin to get a little smoother!


----------



## automan26

Ledbetter Buck said:


> View attachment 2189150
> View attachment 2189151
> think I have the tag end serving and end serving down finally, still tryin to get a little smoother!


I like that color combo. You will be surprised at how well that serving is going to clean up, just by installing the string on the bow. You are doing fine and are already at a place a lot of seasoned builders have yet to reach.

Keep up the good work
Automan


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Thanks automan this is only my second set, but I sure am havin fun. Seam to be makin changes with every end that I do and so far have seen improvements. I Think I,m gonna be like you said not spending much on wax lol.


----------



## lunghit

I would like to discuss and get opinions on finished end serving diameters. I am trying to get a finished diameter of .100 to .102 max with a 24 strand BCY X string. Using .014 Halo and 3D on a burnished string I can get it around .104 so I would like to get this size down if I can. Any ideas? Also why does BCY not recommend a 22 strand X string but with 452X its not an issue?


----------



## automan26

lunghit said:


> I would like to discuss and get opinions on finished end serving diameters. I am trying to get a finished diameter of .100 to .102 max with a 24 strand BCY X string. Using .014 Halo and 3D on a burnished string I can get it around .104 so I would like to get this size down if I can. Any ideas? Also why does BCY not recommend a 22 strand X string but with 452X its not an issue?


You can easily drop two strands with no worry. BCY says that their recommendations on strand count are +/- two strands, so if you are using 24 strands, going to 22 should not be an issue and will decrease your string diameter. You will have to play around with serving diameter, but you should be able to make it work just fine.

Automan


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

i have had several strings with 22 strands of x material and no problems


----------



## jameswk

I've used 20 strands of x on a 65 on draw with no issue


----------



## lunghit

Wow good to know. Now I have a reason to make another string lol. Curious to see what I gain with a 22 strand set. Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Wow good to know. Now I have a reason to make another string lol. Curious to see what I gain with a 22 strand set. Thanks


You won't gain much besides a smaller diameter. I experimented with lower strand count strings and never gained any speed even when going down to 20 strands of 8190 with minimal serving. IMO, it's better to go with the higher strand count for the extra stability than to chase very minimal, if any, speed gains.


----------



## Mordekyle

I like 22 strands of Trophy for the string and 24 or even 26 for the cables.


----------



## Armyof1

went parts shopping today and found everything i need to build the jig with at home depo except the 3 1/2 x4 in corner brackets . they dont have them and cant get them and also no 1/2 x 2 1/12 x 7 in plate steel .


----------



## Huntinsker

Armyof1 said:


> went parts shopping today and found everything i need to build the jig with at home depo except the 3 1/2 x4 in corner brackets . they dont have them and cant get them and also no 1/2 x 2 1/12 x 7 in plate steel .


The steel I got from a metal supplier. The corner brackets, you should be able to find with the superstrut accessories. If Home Depot can't get them in for you, you can order them on their website and have them sent to the store. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Superstrut-90-Degree-4-Hole-Channel-Bracket-ZAB205EG-10/202077397


----------



## automan26

I got the Sentinel twins all decked out with some new Easter outfits. I took them to the range with me today so they could show off their new threads. This was the first time my girl on the left wore her new threads out of the house, so I was interested in how things would go. The first arrow through paper was a perfect bullet hole and she French tuned perfectly with no adjustments. I may have to get them a new sister so I will have another reason to build some more new threads. 

Automan


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> You won't gain much besides a smaller diameter. I experimented with lower strand count strings and never gained any speed even when going down to 20 strands of 8190 with minimal serving. IMO, it's better to go with the higher strand count for the extra stability than to chase very minimal, if any, speed gains.


I am actually most interested in a smaller diameter string. Xpedition seems pretty strict about the diameter sizes and they say it should be .102 max. I measured the stock 24 strand string that came with the bow and it was .100 exactly. They do use 8190 so maybe that has a smaller diameter than BCY X.


----------



## Armyof1

Huntinsker said:


> The steel I got from a metal supplier. The corner brackets, you should be able to find with the superstrut accessories. If Home Depot can't get them in for you, you can order them on their website and have them sent to the store. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Superstrut-90-Degree-4-Hole-Channel-Bracket-ZAB205EG-10/202077397


Thank you huntinsker


----------



## lunghit

OK another quick question. Lately on a few strings I have made there is some bulging in the string in a few spots when there is no tension on it. Almost looks like there would be some wax build up in the strands in those areas but thats not the case. It does not affect performance at all but I would like to figure out why its happening. Any ideas?


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

lunghit said:


> OK another quick question. Lately on a few strings I have made there is some bulging in the string in a few spots when there is no tension on it. Almost looks like there would be some wax build up in the strands in those areas but thats not the case. It does not affect performance at all but I would like to figure out why its happening. Any ideas?


i have found two reasons for that in my own strings. one is uneven strand tension because of putting too much tension on the string to stretch it before you have finished the loop. or just uneven layout

the other reason was burnishing too much or hard and stopping in the middle of the string


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

now for my question. lol

i have a green brownell excell string on the stretcher now. what serving to use?? i am thinking red, moss green or black.


----------



## jameswk

I agree to uneven tension during layout and possibly not enough stretch time. If you look close do you see its one color bunching up? that's usually caused from flex in the jig when laying out


----------



## jameswk

green or black my vote


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

i think i am going to go with the black. i havent tried that brownell fusion i got from Rayknight so i will give that a go.


----------



## lunghit

I will keep an eye out on the layout tension but I dont think thats the problem. I never had that issue before after building lots of strings but I see elitehoythunter mentioned burnishing too much. Lately I have been really using lots of tension in the strand I am using to burnish the string with. Next set I will take it easy and not try to go overboard.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

try not to stop in the center of the string i stop at the ends and wipe with a terry cloth to remove the wax from the loop, and fixed the problem for me


----------



## Huntinsker

elitehoythunter said:


> try not to stop in the center of the string i stop at the ends and wipe with a terry cloth to remove the wax from the loop, and fixed the problem for me


That's what did it for me. When I stopped burnishing in the middle of the string, I would have a bump where I stopped the burnish. I started going in long smooth strokes from end to end and the bumps went away.


----------



## Purka

Huntinsker said:


> You won't gain much besides a smaller diameter. I experimented with lower strand count strings and never gained any speed even when going down to 20 strands of 8190 with minimal serving. IMO, it's better to go with the higher strand count for the extra stability than to chase very minimal, if any, speed gains.


Minimising the end serving can loose speed.


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## automan26

lunghit said:


> OK another quick question. Lately on a few strings I have made there is some bulging in the string in a few spots when there is no tension on it. Almost looks like there would be some wax build up in the strands in those areas but thats not the case. It does not affect performance at all but I would like to figure out why its happening. Any ideas?


 Do the bumps look like the one in this pic? I fought this problem for quite a long time until I figured out what I was doing wrong. I was putting several twists into the string, burnishing, twisting a bit more, burnishing again, finishing my twisting and burnishing a final time. I kept getting these bumps in the string when it was relaxed and couldn't figure out why. Now I understand what was going on.

After chasing the colors, burnishing locks the color bundle deeply into the string. The harder you burnish, the stronger you lock down the bundle. When tension is removed from the string, the locked bundle cannot relax and contract properly and the result is that nasty bulge or two that just won't go away until the string is tensioned again.

I now wait to burnish until my string is fully stretched, relaxed, measured for final length and, if necessary, adjusted. Since I have stopped over-burnishing, the bulges have gone away and the problem has been corrected.

Automan


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## lunghit

Yes that looks like the bumps I am getting. My process is tag end serve the end loops then stretch for 20 min at 200 pounds. I then relax tension and install golf tees and tension to about 50 pounds and burnish each individual color. I will then twist required amount of twists and raise tension to 300+ and burnish string again. So do you think I should skip the burnishing of individual colors? Thanks for the reply.


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## automan26

I burnish the colors so I don't think that is your problem. Perhaps you should make sure your string has totally relaxed before adding your twists. (Maybe)

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Okay so I've been getting messages and seeing threads about information on making crossbow strings. Honestly, I don't know much about them other than they are thicker and shorter haha. Anyway, I decided to take some measurements of center and end servings for the crossbow companies that we carry at work. Here's the list for anyone interested.

Tenpoint:
Venom: Cable/string end = .150"
String center = .152"

Titian Xtreme: Cable/string end = .1250"
String center = .1595"

"New" Horton
Legend: Cable/string end = .150"
String center = .1255"

Wicked Ridge
Cable/string end = .1245"
String center = .1525"

Parker
Thunderhawk: Cable/string end = .1235"
String center = .1380"

Centerfire: Cable/string end = .1205
String center = .1405

Stryker
Solution: Cable/string end = .1030"
Cable slide = .1030"
String center = .1215"

Barnett
Razr: Cable/string end = .1445"
String center = .1575"

Vengence: Cable/string end = .1430"
 String center = .1575"

Excalibur
String center = .1545"


Most of the strings specs were the same for all the models of bows within a company with the exception of Ten Point. The high end bows had thicker cable and string ends then the cheaper models.


----------



## SamT

I don't have dimension measurements, but here is my string specs for my 2011 BowTech Stryker SZ350


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## Dthbyhoyt

Built my own string serving clamps and huntinsker suggested making my treaded rods offset as to keep from being in line with the string , he gave me this link and I agreeded that I needed to add offset , I looked at his set up and decided to do it , but I did do mine just a tad different , works awesome ..he also asked that I post a picture on here for reference if anybody else wanted to make some .


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Just got theses colors in an laid this out this evening. I like the colors but the red sure dose bleed.


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## jameswk

Looks good yeah the red I had had a lot of wax too


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Just throwing this out there.....if any of you guys haven't tried fury material yet, I am a distributor of all Brownell products now. Just shoot me a pm and we can get you fixed up...


----------



## wsbark01

2X_LUNG said:


> Just throwing this out there.....if any of you guys haven't tried fury material yet, I am a distributor of all Brownell products now. Just shoot me a pm and we can get you fixed up...


I use Astro flight and like it, how does fury compare to it? Also, do you have any samples?


----------



## v5cvbb

I made a string for my longbow today. I tag end served then moved the string and used spreaders to re-serve the loops with nylon to protect the limb tips. I now understand why you guys use the offset mounts on the string clamps. I've got to put a set of those together before I do another string!


----------



## hoyt em all

v5cvbb said:


> I made a string for my longbow today. I tag end served then moved the string and used spreaders to re-serve the loops with nylon to protect the limb tips. I now understand why you guys use the offset mounts on the string clamps. I've got to put a set of those together before I do another string!


yah, tag ends alone will work for compounds but for anything you have to string and unstring (slide loop up /down the limb) like longbows -recurves you want something tough. as you know.i use center serving for end loops


----------



## soldier1265

Got it built today. Can only get 250# right now. Gonna make another rod tomorrow.


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## jameswk

Looks awesome


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## Binary cam man

This just came in the mail today. I won it at a string auction. It's called 452x tri color. They said its bcy's newest string. Me I have only used bcy x. So 452x is new to me. So I had to twist it up. What I first noticed was there was hardly any wax. The second thing, the three colors are three individual strands,twisted together to make one thread. Is this normal for 452x?


----------



## Binary cam man

The colors are black, silver and electric blue.


----------



## Binary cam man




----------



## Binary cam man

Check out the tag ends.


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## Binary cam man

I wish my I PAD would take better pictures. I think 452x is ropey compared to bcyx. Or is it possible to get a bad spool? Hardly any wax? Is this normal? I have plans for this tri color silver, black and electric blue spool. I want to use it on those black rpm 360's should look awesome. But I don't know if 452x is suppose to be like this.


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## Binary cam man

Happy easter.


----------



## Binary cam man

When making a 22 strand string,where do you put the tees? Do you put them between 5 on the top and 6 on the bottom? Or at post A when you go through,do you catch 6 on the right and 5 on the left? If this is so, do you do the same at post B, or would you do the opposite?


----------



## RobG

Hey all. Been working on my jig and keep changing my mind. I plan on stretching with this set up,the post will be tensioned from the inside of the strut via the block with the threaded rod seen in picture. Do you think if I weld this gusset on it will be strong enough for 300+ pounds? Thanks


----------



## jameswk

Binary cam man said:


> When making a 22 strand string,where do you put the tees? Do you put them between 5 on the top and 6 on the bottom? Or at post A when you go through,do you catch 6 on the right and 5 on the left? If this is so, do you do the same at post B, or would you do the opposite?


5 on top 6 on bottom? Explain.... Do you have 12 strands of one color and 10 of the other?


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


> 5 on top 6 on bottom? Explain.... Do you have 12 strands of one color and 10 of the other?


All the same color. One tag end. 11 on each side.


----------



## jameswk

Divide evenly then 5.5 top 5.5 bottom


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


> Divide evenly then 5.5 top 5.5 bottom


I don't think you are getting it. Wrap 22 strands around the posts. You will have 11 on the right side and 11on the left side. Where do you put the tees? There is no middle. It's 5and 6.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Just do 12 and 12. Tee in middle. If you want just one tag end side


----------



## jameswk

I got it I just failed to explain it well enough one side of the t will have 6 top 5 bottom and the other side 5 top 6 bottom


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Yes, that's correct. For 22.


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


> Divide evenly then 5.5 top 5.5 bottom


Maybe you mean at post A 6&5 and at post B 5&6?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

You can do 5 top. 6 bottom. You'll have two tags on one side. I'd do one tag on each side imo


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Actually do 5.5/5.5. Tag on each end


----------



## jameswk




----------



## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> Yes, that's correct. For 22.


I thought about this I didn't know for sure. I had to check with a PRO. Thanks very much!


----------



## Huntinsker

soldier1265 said:


> Got it built today. Can only get 250# right now. Gonna make another rod tomorrow.


Looks really good but you'll probably need about 3x as much travel on your tensioning end. The longer the string, the more it stretches and to get to a high enough poundage, you need to have more travel than the material has stretch to it.


----------



## Binary cam man

jameswk said:


>


I'm sorry I didn't realize 2x was in this too. Ok go strait across with the tee. I was going to pick 5 from the left and 6 from the right at post A. And the opposite at post B. Thanks very much.


----------



## AzizaVFR

The three colored 452x material I purchased at the Las Vegas shoot (orange/black/red) also has almost no wax. It was the cleanest set of strings I made for a Mission Ballistix. I was so looking forward to using this material to make a set of strings for my Win & Win Dragonfly 38, yet the factory ones look and shoot way too good.


----------



## Binary cam man

AzizaVFR said:


> The three colored 452x material I purchased at the Las Vegas shoot (orange/black/red) also has almost no wax. It was the cleanest set of strings I made for a Mission Ballistix. I was so looking forward to using this material to make a set of strings for my Win & Win Dragonfly 38, yet the factory ones look and shoot way too good.


I had to see what it was like twisted. I used 24 strands. It seems a lot thicker than 24 of bcy x. When I get around to it I'll measure and compare.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> I had to see what it was like twisted. I used 24 strands. It seems a lot thicker than 24 of bcy x. When I get around to it I'll measure and compare.


452x is thicker than X. Most use 22 strands of 452x on strings and 24 strands for cables.


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> 452x is thicker than X. Most use 22 strands of 452x on strings and 24 strands for cables.


Have you seen 452x tri color? Each strand is 3 separate strands, 1 of each color twisted together. Very little wax. I posted some prior post with pictures. May make some nice pins. As they go around changing color. That's my next experiment. Check out the tag ends.


----------



## Huntinsker

I haven't seen the 3 colored stuff. I'm not a huge fan of the speckled strings so it's not really my thing. It's a little too busy for my taste. If they have a black brown and green, that would make a decent camo string though. Brownell has had some 3 color materials for quite a while and they twist up into a decent looking string. They are actually different colors at different points on the string though. Almost like a color coded lead core fishing line.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> I haven't seen the 3 colored stuff. I'm not a huge fan of the speckled strings so it's not really my thing. It's a little too busy for my taste. If they have a black brown and green, that would make a decent camo string though. Brownell has had some 3 color materials for quite a while and they twist up into a decent looking string. They are actually different colors at different points on the string though. Almost like a color coded lead core fishing line.


. I know what your talking about. I'm not crazy about the speckled stuff either. This is not like that. It pins around the string. But your right it is busy.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Here's fury tri color. I put in a thick flo orange pin....


----------



## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> Here's fury tri color. I put in a thick flo orange pin....


That's nice. Different. I haven't tried fury yet. I'm a little Leary. More strands per string. They must be very thin strands. I like how round and smooth they turn out.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Don't be Leary, be adventurous


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

2X_LUNG said:


> Don't be Leary, be adventurous


Definitely don't be Leary! Fury is Great i have built 10 sets in the last week with fury and the more i use it the more i like it! it is so easy to build with, looks great and seems to be rock solid! If 85 percent of my customers didn't want BCY x material i would probably only stock fury!


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

I have recently become a regular dealer for both BCY and Brownell products if you all need some material give me a private message and i can get you squared away! i will be starting a thread soon as i have a full price sheet worked out.


----------



## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> Don't be Leary, be adventurous


Bcyx ft/lb waxed. 9500 452 ft/lb waxed. 8800 I was looking for the fury specs but I couldn't find them. Can you tell me?


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Bcyx ft/lb waxed. 9500 452 ft/lb waxed. 8800 I was looking for the fury specs but I couldn't find them. Can you tell me?


Not sure on the specs on Fury but I can tell you that those numbers really don't mean much if anything at all. 8190 has a higher rating than 452x but we've known for quite a while that 452x is more stable than 8190. Fury has the smallest strand size of any material on the market right now so I'd imagine it also has the highest "ft/lb" rating since you can have more strands and still end up at the same end diameter.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Not sure on the specs on Fury but I can tell you that those numbers really don't mean much if anything at all. 8190 has a higher rating than 452x but we've known for quite a while that 452x is more stable than 8190. Fury has the smallest strand size of any material on the market right now so I'd imagine it also has the highest "ft/lb" rating since you can have more strands and still end up at the same end diameter.


 I think those numbers mean the strength of the material that is part of the engineering process. Yes you are right about 8190 and 452x. This is exactly why I'm trying to find the numbers on fury. I use bcyx for that reason. Bcyx and 8190 have the same ft/lb rating. Here is where it starts to hit home. 452x is more stable than 8190. And 452x has less ft/lb rating. And we know 8190 is a thin thread.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

fury is .010-.011 diameter and approximately like 12,000 feet per pound. (if i remember correctly)

on the bright side when i applied for my dealership with brownell I asked for a sample of each of their materials, i never expected them to send me 1/8 pound spools!


----------



## Binary cam man

Ft/lb is the symbol for strength. But they use it for FEET PER POUND! As in length of material per pound. This is nuts. Sorry about that HUNTINSKER. This is all new to me and I'll shut up now.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Ft/lb is the symbol for strength. But they use it for FEET PER POUND! As in length of material per pound. This is nuts. Sorry about that HUNTINSKER. This is all new to me and I'll shut up now.


Haha nice. I didn't know why the heck they were rating their material in foot pounds of torque either. Not sure why I didn't put that together. You're not alone bud lol!!


----------



## soldier1265

Got it laid out for tomorrow. Flo yellow and teal 452X.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

thats gonna look nice together


----------



## Huntinsker

I like the teal color but when you use it with anything but black and green, it kind of just looks green IMO. My wife wants to get her bow refinished black riser and limbs with teal cams but she wants a bright teal called Jamaican teal I believe. It's quite a bit lighter than the BCY teal string fiber. I wish BCY or Brownell would make an "electric teal" so you can actually tell it's teal and not green.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Hey everyone,

way back towards the beginning of this thread automan was explaining how he had never measured how much tension he was getting from the valve spring he was using for his el cheapo jig. well today i got my old el cheapo jig out and measured the tension with my crane scale. With a 1/16 inch gap on the last coil right before coil bind i got 368 pounds! That was using a valve spring from a 360 dodge engine. one half turn past coil bind i got 477 pounds.

i know that this is kind of an old subject but i figured i would shed some light for the guys that are just starting their first jig builds, and have questions about the amount of tension that can be had from a 4 dollar spring from you local junk yard. i hope this helps!

also if you use the cone shaped guiding washers that the springs are mounted into the head with on both sides of the spring the spring will pull nice and even with a 3/8 inch hook and keep the all thread from the hook in the center line of the spring.


----------



## automan26

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> way back towards the beginning of this thread automan was explaining how he had never measured how much tension he was getting from the valve spring he was using for his el cheapo jig. well today i got my old el cheapo jig out and measured the tension with my crane scale. With a 1/16 inch gap on the last coil right before coil bind i got 368 pounds! That was using a valve spring from a 360 dodge engine. one half turn past coil bind i got 477 pounds.
> 
> i know that this is kind of an old subject but i figured i would shed some light for the guys that are just starting their first jig builds, and have questions about the amount of tension that can be had from a 4 dollar spring from you local junk yard. i hope this helps!
> 
> also if you use the cone shaped guiding washers that the springs are mounted into the head with on both sides of the spring the spring will pull nice and even with a 3/8 inch hook and keep the all thread from the hook in the center line of the spring.


Thanks for checking this out. I've never had a scale strong enough to check them for myself, so now I have a ballpark idea of their strength. That jig isn't called the El-Cheap-O for nothing. LOL

Automan


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

I was really surprised myself. I mean 400 pounds at coil bind! I was glad to check it out. Your El Cheapo jig is what I started building strings on. Even now I use it as a spare stretcher every now and then.

Really this whole thread has been helpful to me in the past, and I could not believe that no one ever checked that out after all this time so I bought a 600 pound crane scale (just for that purpose) and measured it today when it came in.


----------



## soldier1265

Is it possible to pull your tag ends too right? I'm getting a lot strand separation when doing them.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Try to keep the material twisted as you wrap the tag ends. I seriously doubt you could pull too tight by hand. from what you describe it sounds as though the material is laying flat. If thats the case then most of the time as soon as you put it on the stretcher it will separate.

so work on a method to keep the material twisted, and try not to overlap the strands too much, its harder to get them to lock down tight when overlapped its just like serving really to keep the wraps together you want the wraps to be round so they lay closer together and tight so they dont move.

That being said when are you getting the separation?


----------



## soldier1265

I'm getting it within probably 10 wraps. Then it just gets worse from there.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

soldier1265 said:


> I'm getting it within probably 10 wraps. Then it just gets worse from there.


A picture would really help here.


----------



## soldier1265




----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Definately looks to me as though the tag end strand is laying flat. Figure out a way to keep that material twisted as you wrap and that issue will go away. here is one where you can see pretty easily that the material remained twisted. at the apex of the loop you can see a bit of wax that pushed through, but wipe with a rag and that rough spot at end of loop will go away. How i keep the material twisted is after its fed through the center i wrap it around my fingers 3 or 4 times to twist it and then pull tight. do that every wrap making sure to use the same number of twists each wrap. it takes a little longer, but the tag ends hold up better and look better too. 


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
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## Earle J's Custom Strings

also that tag end fraying like that is a tell tale sign of the strand laying flat.


----------



## soldier1265

Alrighty. I'll give it a shot. Thanks!


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

no problem man, keep us posted with your progress.


----------



## v5cvbb

You guys just gave me a solution to a problem I didn't even know I had. Thanks! My next set of tag ends should look better.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

thats what this thread is for man. I am glad we could help you


----------



## Augur

i love this post built the jig and my own strings and cables. they work great. servings need to be as tight as you can get them eespecially the pse rogue o have due to an aggressive draw and letoff.


----------



## bryanroberts

Tag


----------



## shinobi3

Some new strings for my e35


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## jameswk

Nice those are bright!


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## shinobi3

They are bright... The sun is making it look even more bright


----------



## Binary cam man

Check this out. I received a brand new RPM 360. I went to the Bowtech site for specs. On the site it says,the string is 61 5/32. The cable 34 13/64. Here is where the fun starts. On the bow it says, string 61 1/8. The cable, 34 5/16. Witch one is it? My guess it is the one on the bow. It gets better! Ata specs 31inches. Bow specs 31 1/8 . Brace 6inches. Bow 5 7/8. O I almost forgot, cam lean. What more can you want from a BRAND NEW BOW! Now I know why these bows tear up threads. If any of you guys know about this , I'd love to hear it. I will not shoot this till I get it straitened out. Also my new press hasn't arrived, so I can't do anything anyway except throw it around.


----------



## Binary cam man

shinobi3 said:


> Some new strings for my e35
> View attachment 2209988
> View attachment 2209989


I new flo yellow would be an eye catcher. I recently received a spool. Shinobi3, nice work! I'm a big fan of single color threads.


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks.. I love solid colors too


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Check this out. I received a brand new RPM 360. I went to the Bowtech site for specs. On the site it says,the string is 61 5/32. The cable 34 13/64. Here is where the fun starts. On the bow it says, string 61 1/8. The cable, 34 5/16. Witch one is it? My guess it is the one on the bow. It gets better! Ata specs 31inches. Bow specs 31 1/8 . Brace 6inches. Bow 5 7/8. O I almost forgot, cam lean. What more can you want from a BRAND NEW BOW! Now I know why these bows tear up threads. If any of you guys know about this , I'd love to hear it. I will not shoot this till I get it straitened out. Also my new press hasn't arrived, so I can't do anything anyway except throw it around.


You've got the bow, you've got a string jig. Tune the bow to your liking making sure the DL is how you want it and you're getting your max poundage and then measure the threads to your custom lengths and build to that. None of my bows have factory length threads on them. That's the beauty of building your own.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> You've got the bow, you've got a string jig. Tune the bow to your liking making sure the DL is how you want it and you're getting your max poundage and then measure the threads to your custom lengths and build to that. None of my bows have factory length threads on them. That's the beauty of building your own.


Thanks Huntinsker, if I get this right , the factory specs are only a starting point. As far as the bow is concerned, you still try to get the brace, ata ect. To factory specs correct? When I make strings, I go crazy trying to get the measurement to pinpoint. I watched factory videos,they have computers that measure the string to pinpoint. Must be a sales pitch.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Thanks Huntinsker, if I get this right , the factory specs are only a starting point. As far as the bow is concerned, you still try to get the brace, ata ect. To factory specs correct? When I make strings, I go crazy trying to get the measurement to pinpoint. I watched factory videos,they have computers that measure the string to pinpoint. Must be a sales pitch.


If factory threads were that close on length, we wouldn't ever have to time a bow out of the box. I think you're right that the "computer measurements" are just a fancy sales pitch. Factory lengths are in most cases just fine but if you have the bow and are going to tune it anyway, you can find out what your perfect lengths are and build to those instead of having to retune your bow every time you make new threads.

The last set I made for my Anarchy HC, I built to the dimensions that I had on the bow after tuning. Once installed, the marks on my cams lined up perfectly without any adjustment. Of course I checked my tune and DL but everything was spot on. You have to be very picky about measuring and installing everything to make that happen but it can be done. 

As far as ATA and brace height, I don't know what mine are. They don't mean anything to me really. I know my poundage down to the 1/10th of a pound and I know my DL is exactly measuring 29.75" and I know about every other measurement you can think of. I don't care about my ATA and brace height because they are just approximate values anyway. I know that if I don't tune my bow exactly like they do in the factory then they won't be the same as what the factory says they should be. Typically mine are very very close but I don't care if they are or not.


----------



## Binary cam man

Thanks Huntinsker, This is a big help. I received this bow from a bow shop in SC. This represents them. They should have tuned it or at least got it close. Your not bad mouthing when you are telling the truth. I have a question? When you tune, is it done at max draw weight? Say the bow is 60lbs and you shoot 50, or do you tune it at 50 ?


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Thanks Huntinsker, This is a big help. I received this bow from a bow shop in SC. This represents them. They should have tuned it or at least got it close. Your not bad mouthing when you are telling the truth. I have a question? When you tune, is it done at max draw weight? Say the bow is 60lbs and you shoot 50, or do you tune it at 50 ?


Need to tune it exactly how you'll shoot it. I like my limb bolts maxed out for consistencies sake so if I'm going to shoot it at 60, I get 60lb limbs. I have 2 sets of limbs for all my bows haha. Anyway without getting the string making thread off track with a too much tuning talk, I'll just say that there are a bunch of ways to tune a bow and they should all get you to the same place. Just need to decide what draw weight and arrow combination you're going to use and then tune to that.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Need to tune it exactly how you'll shoot it. I like my limb bolts maxed out for consistencies sake so if I'm going to shoot it at 60, I get 60lb limbs. I have 2 sets of limbs for all my bows haha. Anyway without getting the string making thread off track with a too much tuning talk, I'll just say that there are a bunch of ways to tune a bow and they should all get you to the same place. Just need to decide what draw weight and arrow combination you're going to use and then tune to that.


Your right, Thanks.


----------



## soldier1265

How many strands are you guys using for trophy and 8190?


----------



## deerbum

What an awesome thread, just finished assembling and calibrating my jig today. The first set that I want to build is for my RPM 360, I was thinking of going with BCY-X material. Any advice on strand counts, serving diameter, or even perhaps more suitable thread material for this bow? Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## raleigh8605

I need some help. I've been building strings for a couple months now for myself and family and friends. I've used bcy x in about 5 different colors so far (red yellow tan black and Flo green) and all the sets I have made using the various combinations have been stable and zero peep twist except yellow. I'm working on a red and yellow solocam string right now and regardless of what I try when the string is on the stretcher the "flag" of serving thread between the bundles spins at least 180 degrees when tensioning up from 0 to about 200lbs. I have tried laying the strands up at the same tension, different tensions, stretched at various weights from 250 to 440 even stretching each color individually after serving the loops trying to get the two colors more even and nothing has worked. I've even contacted bcy thinking it was a bad spool and they sent me a new one and still the same problem. I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out what is going on. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This set is for a friend and I'd hate to disappoint him but I'm about ready to tell him to pick a new color combo before I waste anymore time and string material


----------



## Huntinsker

soldier1265 said:


> How many strands are you guys using for trophy and 8190?


I never built cables with 8190 but I ran a 24 strand string for a little while.


----------



## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> What an awesome thread, just finished assembling and calibrating my jig today. The first set that I want to build is for my RPM 360, I was thinking of going with BCY-X material. Any advice on strand counts, serving diameter, or even perhaps more suitable thread material for this bow? Any advice is appreciated.


Jig looks good :thumbs_up

X is a good material. I've seen people using 24 on the string and 26 on cables. 0.14 halo would work well on the end serving and .021 62xs for the center serving. If you want a better all around material though, use 28 strands of fury on the strings and 32 on the cables. Again .014 halo and .021 62xs works well.


----------



## deerbum

Huntinsker said:


> Jig looks good :thumbs_up
> 
> X is a good material. I've seen people using 24 on the string and 26 on cables. 0.14 halo would work well on the end serving and .021 62xs for the center serving. If you want a better all around material though, use 28 strands of fury on the strings and 32 on the cables. Again .014 halo and .021 62xs works well.


Thanks for the help! That should get me started in the right direction and I hope to post some thread photos in the near future.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

raleigh8605 said:


> I need some help. I've been building strings for a couple months now for myself and family and friends. I've used bcy x in about 5 different colors so far (red yellow tan black and Flo green) and all the sets I have made using the various combinations have been stable and zero peep twist except yellow. I'm working on a red and yellow solocam string right now and regardless of what I try when the string is on the stretcher the "flag" of serving thread between the bundles spins at least 180 degrees when tensioning up from 0 to about 200lbs. I have tried laying the strands up at the same tension, different tensions, stretched at various weights from 250 to 440 even stretching each color individually after serving the loops trying to get the two colors more even and nothing has worked. I've even contacted bcy thinking it was a bad spool and they sent me a new one and still the same problem. I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out what is going on. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This set is for a friend and I'd hate to disappoint him but I'm about ready to tell him to pick a new color combo before I waste anymore time and string material


alot of times single cam strings take awhile to stretch. Also just because the flag rotates when you tension does not always mean it will be a bad string. when i do single cam strings stretching at 450 pounds i will leave them stretch for several hours. some colors are slightly larger than others, but that generally does not make much difference. How much do you stretch before twisting? I found early on that stretching too much before twisting the string will not give the best results. 

try this.. layout the first color and dewax. layout the second color and dewax. After that be sure not to leave any little bits of wax sticking to the strands, if these are not removed you will most likely be left with bumps in the string, if its really waxy and there are bits of wax over several spots just lightly dewax again. I like to use white 3d to dewax with. 

after this step serve the tag ends like you normally would. after your tag ends are done tension to like 150 pounds for maybe 5 minutes. dont use a lot of tension at this step. relieve the tension and insert your separators. tension to 100 pounds and begin twisting. After 10 -15 twists remove separators. finish your twisting. tension to whatever tension you stretch at although you will already be around 350. stretch for several hours. if the string is long it will stretch more. after the first 45 minutes or so check for tension and bring back to full tension. then leave it for at least a few hours, if you are using fury or rhino it will take longer, but if you stretch at 440 like you said earlier a few hours is fine. it will be pretty apparent when the material stops stretching.

Remove from stretcher and allow to relax for a few hours at the very least. after fully relaxed put back on the stretcher and adjust for length as needed. tension to about 200-250 pounds and burnish. My favorite material to burnish with is crown but 62xs works well too. 

I prefer to serve away from the loop, but either way works fine. i seriously doubt that the color is the problem. 1 half twist when you tension is not horrible but i would not even look at it until you have adjusted for length and burnished.


----------



## raleigh8605

Thanks Earle J. I usually prestretch at around 200 to 250 lbs. I will try with less tension next time. Also I have always dewaxed my bundles after serving the tag ends. Does it matter if i start dewaxing at the tag ends towards to opposite post or vice versa. I didn't know if one direction worked better than another to equalize the strands or maybe it doesn't matter. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## deerbum

Had an opportunity to read the majority of this thread this weekend and picked up a lot of great information. I see that I'll be needing to get the thrust bearing to smooth out the twisting process and put a block on the spring end while laying out and wrapping the tag ends. I know the serving direction has been addressed several times but wanted to see if it sunk into my thick skull. Does this look right? The blue arrows would be the direction the serving jig is traveling.


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## jameswk

Deerbum that looks correct


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

raleigh8605 said:


> Thanks Earle J. I usually prestretch at around 200 to 250 lbs. I will try with less tension next time. Also I have always dewaxed my bundles after serving the tag ends. Does it matter if i start dewaxing at the tag ends towards to opposite post or vice versa. I didn't know if one direction worked better than another to equalize the strands or maybe it doesn't matter. Thanks again for the help.


when you dewax do so from the continuous end toward the tag ends. If you start from the tag end side you run the risk of bunching the strands in the bundle.


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## skullerud

Quick question for you. 
a bit off topic, but still..
Desperately in need of serving layout for a customers PSE dream season DNA 2013mod. tried every other option, so now I'm down to desperate measures...

anyone?


----------



## bryanroberts

skullerud said:


> Quick question for you.
> a bit off topic, but still..
> Desperately in need of serving layout for a customers PSE dream season DNA 2013mod. tried every other option, so now I'm down to desperate measures...
> 
> anyone?


Did you already try the string builders thread?


----------



## skullerud

Yes. First place I go for serving for serving data. 
Not much help there anymore :-(


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## bryanroberts

skullerud said:


> Yes. First place I go for serving for serving data.
> Not much help there anymore :-(


That's unfortunate. I thought it might turn out like this thread. Archers helping other archers. That's a shame.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

skullerud said:


> Yes. First place I go for serving for serving data.
> Not much help there anymore :-(


Have you tried KGCB string specs on facebook?


----------



## jameswk

Call pse they are a joy to deal with and have no problem sending the I information


----------



## Purka

I'm not sure of the year.
PSE DNA
String 60.37 Top |<.......21.5...>|...........|<-.....32 center......|<- 28......|<- 26...Stop...|<- 23.5.....|< 21.5..........>|bottom
control 34 top |<.......10.....>|...............|<......3.5.....>|bottom
Buss 32.25 yoke |<======7===>|.................|<......8........>| bottom


----------



## skullerud

Thanx purka. Looks good


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## soldier1265

I've got all of the 2013 PSE specs in a PDF. Can email them.


----------



## skullerud

Problem solved by soldier1265. Thanx Mate. Your a lifesaver!


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## bryanroberts

how far above and below is the least you can get away with when serving for a string stop? I guess a better way to word ask it is how much do you need to have? Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> how far above and below is the least you can get away with when serving for a string stop? I guess a better way to word ask it is how much do you need to have? Thanks


I have about 1/2" above and below on my personal strings. Some bows have strings stops that can be rotated to change where they contact the string. In that case, you need more serving but the serving specs the we map out usually have plenty to account for that. If you are making them for yourself, you can has as much or as little as you like as long as the stop hits serving and not string material.


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## soldier1265

22 or 24 strands for a string with 8190?


----------



## Huntinsker

soldier1265 said:


> 22 or 24 strands for a string with 8190?


Should be good to go with 24 strands of 8190 on most bows. It's pretty much equivalent to 22 of 452x or 28 of Fury.


----------



## soldier1265

Huntinsker said:


> Should be good to go with 24 strands of 8190 on most bows. It's pretty much equivalent to 22 of 452x or 28 of Fury.


Thanks


----------



## shinobi3

Some new threads for a future nitrum turbo [emoji16][emoji16]


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## bryanroberts

Sweet!


----------



## bryanroberts

lunghit said:


> Just wanted to show the threads I made for my Perfexion. These are BCY X in sunset orange and silver with a black pin.


That perfexion is so sweet! I hope it shoots as good in the longer DL s as it does in the short. Nice string too!


----------



## Huntinsker

Guys.....Don't do what I just did. Last night I started on my wife's string set for her first bow. It's black/teal primary with a flo pink pinstripe. It looks great. I laid out the buss cable and while it was resting I did the string. Everything was perfect until this morning when I measured the string before serving. It was spot on the number..........just 1 full inch short!!!! I got in a hurry while measuring the initial post setting and set it exactly 1" short  Oh well. The new one is stretching as I'm typing this.

Remember measure twice, build once haha.


----------



## shinobi3

Been there done that ... I measure about five times now lol


----------



## Binary cam man

shinobi3 said:


> Some new threads for a future nitrum turbo [emoji16][emoji16]


Nice combo!


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## shinobi3

Thanks


----------



## automan26

As I have watched this thread from the beginning, I have seen many guys show off some of their work and the quality of what I am seeing is absolutely fantastic. I was kicking around a pro shop a couple of weeks ago and notice a used Hoyt hanging on the rack and attached to it were packages containing a string, and two cables which were manufactured by one of the top and most trusted string making companies in the nation. I won't give their name because they are a big sponsor here on AT, but it is a name you would recognize immediately. Being a string builder myself I have an interest in turning out quality threads so I gave these new strings a close inspection, just to see how we amateurs stack up against the pro builders. What I saw was a real eye opener. These pro strings were OK but they didn't look to be up to the quality standards I am seeing from many who surf this thread regularly. You guys need to pat yourselves on the back and stand tall because you are cranking out some top-shelf threads. There are a lot of guys here who have only been building strings for several months and are already better builders than me, and I have to admit that when I saw these new strings I shook my head and told myself that I honestly could not sign my name to strings of that quality. I know that many here would have felt the same way had they seen these professionally built strings.

You guys are doing great work. If there are any who are still hanging on, trying to decide if they should jump in and start building, let me say that you can become a very compitient builder sooner than you think if you are willing to put in a little time and effort.

Automan


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> Guys.....Don't do what I just did. Last night I started on my wife's string set for her first bow. It's black/teal primary with a flo pink pinstripe. It looks great. I laid out the buss cable and while it was resting I did the string. Everything was perfect until this morning when I measured the string before serving. It was spot on the number..........just 1 full inch short!!!! I got in a hurry while measuring the initial post setting and set it exactly 1" short  Oh well. The new one is stretching as I'm typing this.
> 
> Remember measure twice, build once haha.


I haven't used this material yet. The riser on my new bow is an anodized orange. I am going to make an orange and black string.

Can you recommend if I should use flo orange or bright orange? The flo colors look nice in this thread.


----------



## shinobi3

automan26 said:


> As I have watched this thread from the beginning, I have seen many guys show off some of their work and the quality of what I am seeing is absolutely fantastic. I was kicking around a pro shop a couple of weeks ago and notice a used Hoyt hanging on the rack and attached to it were packages containing a string, and two cables which were manufactured by one of the top and most trusted string making companies in the nation. I won't give their name because they are a big sponsor here on AT, but it is a name you would recognize immediately. Being a string builder myself I have an interest in turning out quality threads so I gave these new strings a close inspection, just to see how we amateurs stack up against the pro builders. What I saw was a real eye opener. These pro strings were OK but they didn't look to be up to the quality standards I am seeing from many who surf this thread regularly. You guys need to pat yourselves on the back and stand tall because you are cranking out some top-shelf threads. There are a lot of guys here who have only been building strings for several months and are already better builders than me, and I have to admit that when I saw these new strings I shook my head and told myself that I honestly could not sign my name to strings of that quality. I know that many here would have felt the same way had they seen these professionally built strings.
> 
> You guys are doing great work. If there are any who are still hanging on, trying to decide if they should jump in and start building, let me say that you can become a very compitient builder sooner than you think if you are willing to put in a little time and effort.
> 
> Automan


And if it wasn't for you I wouldn't have even started. I appreciate all that you and hunter., 2x have done for me.


----------



## AzizaVFR

This was a two-fold project. This is my daughter's new Win & Win Blast 32. It originally had yellow and black strings, and it had a minimum draw length of 25". Her draw length is 23". I had to figure out how much shorter to make the string lengths to reduce the draw length and still keep the cams timed. She wanted some bright colored strings. She wanted all three colors shown. Here are the results.


----------



## bryanroberts

AzizaVFR said:


> This was a two-fold project. This is my daughter's new Win & Win Blast 32. It originally had yellow and black strings, and it had a minimum draw length of 25". Her draw length is 23". I had to figure out how much shorter to make the string lengths to reduce the draw length and still keep the cams timed. She wanted some bright colored strings. She wanted all three colors shown. Here are the results.


Nice job!!!!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

shinobi3 said:


> And if it wasn't for you I wouldn't have even started. I appreciate all that you and hunter., 2x have done for me.


Our pleasure. Keep up the great work!


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> As I have watched this thread from the beginning, I have seen many guys show off some of their work and the quality of what I am seeing is absolutely fantastic. I was kicking around a pro shop a couple of weeks ago and notice a used Hoyt hanging on the rack and attached to it were packages containing a string, and two cables which were manufactured by one of the top and most trusted string making companies in the nation. I won't give their name because they are a big sponsor here on AT, but it is a name you would recognize immediately. Being a string builder myself I have an interest in turning out quality threads so I gave these new strings a close inspection, just to see how we amateurs stack up against the pro builders. What I saw was a real eye opener. These pro strings were OK but they didn't look to be up to the quality standards I am seeing from many who surf this thread regularly. You guys need to pat yourselves on the back and stand tall because you are cranking out some top-shelf threads. There are a lot of guys here who have only been building strings for several months and are already better builders than me, and I have to admit that when I saw these new strings I shook my head and told myself that I honestly could not sign my name to strings of that quality. I know that many here would have felt the same way had they seen these professionally built strings.
> 
> You guys are doing great work. If there are any who are still hanging on, trying to decide if they should jump in and start building, let me say that you can become a very compitient builder sooner than you think if you are willing to put in a little time and effort.
> 
> Automan


Where I work, I install strings from a lot of different makers, several of which are discussed on here or even sponsors, most of them pretty high volume companies. The last one I installed, they used the tag end method for the end loops and there was terrible separation on the loops even before I took the paper clip off. They also had some serving that was incorrectly placed so I had to modify it for the customer before we could even shoot it. 

Everyone keep up the good work on here. You should be proud of the quality threads you're producing.


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> As I have watched this thread from the beginning, I have seen many guys show off some of their work and the quality of what I am seeing is absolutely fantastic. I was kicking around a pro shop a couple of weeks ago and notice a used Hoyt hanging on the rack and attached to it were packages containing a string, and two cables which were manufactured by one of the top and most trusted string making companies in the nation. I won't give their name because they are a big sponsor here on AT, but it is a name you would recognize immediately. Being a string builder myself I have an interest in turning out quality threads so I gave these new strings a close inspection, just to see how we amateurs stack up against the pro builders. What I saw was a real eye opener. These pro strings were OK but they didn't look to be up to the quality standards I am seeing from many who surf this thread regularly. You guys need to pat yourselves on the back and stand tall because you are cranking out some top-shelf threads. There are a lot of guys here who have only been building strings for several months and are already better builders than me, and I have to admit that when I saw these new strings I shook my head and told myself that I honestly could not sign my name to strings of that quality. I know that many here would have felt the same way had they seen these professionally built strings.
> 
> You guys are doing great work. If there are any who are still hanging on, trying to decide if they should jump in and start building, let me say that you can become a very compitient builder sooner than you think if you are willing to put in a little time and effort.
> 
> Automan


 Automan and Huntisker, THANK YOU. I also started at the beginning of this site. I had to over come all the problems just like you. You know, the bulges, I loose strands, ECT. Now I have my owne process that work well. Years back I bought a replacement for one of my bows. Big company, big name, big money, big waste. Automan I concur. As far as new bows from the factory, as far as I can see, they will come out with a new line of bows and make thousands of them. The next thing is the strings. The mad rush to make string sets for thousands of bows. So they go to work. Some guys make the cables and some guys make the strings. You don't get a matched set. Example, more twists in one cable than the other to arrive at the same length. Stand tall knowing you make the best strings on the planet. And a big THANKS to all of you.


----------



## b0w_bender

automan26 said:


> As I have watched this thread from the beginning, I have seen many guys show off some of their work and the quality of what I am seeing is absolutely fantastic. I was kicking around a pro shop a couple of weeks ago and notice a used Hoyt hanging on the rack and attached to it were packages containing a string, and two cables which were manufactured by one of the top and most trusted string making companies in the nation. I won't give their name because they are a big sponsor here on AT, but it is a name you would recognize immediately. Being a string builder myself I have an interest in turning out quality threads so I gave these new strings a close inspection, just to see how we amateurs stack up against the pro builders. What I saw was a real eye opener. These pro strings were OK but they didn't look to be up to the quality standards I am seeing from many who surf this thread regularly. You guys need to pat yourselves on the back and stand tall because you are cranking out some top-shelf threads. There are a lot of guys here who have only been building strings for several months and are already better builders than me, and I have to admit that when I saw these new strings I shook my head and told myself that I honestly could not sign my name to strings of that quality. I know that many here would have felt the same way had they seen these professionally built strings.
> 
> You guys are doing great work. If there are any who are still hanging on, trying to decide if they should jump in and start building, let me say that you can become a very compitient builder sooner than you think if you are willing to put in a little time and effort.
> 
> Automan


It's some what ironic that as a string builder gains commercial success their ability to retain the initial quality that got them that success becomes more and more challenging. You need to hire new people and train them and quality control their product. You need to document their failures and fire them if they cannot produce a quality string. It takes a special kind of person to have the patience and care to make a great string and having to do it all day long day after day has got to be difficult. I don't really hold less than perfect strings against the big boys for their challenges are steep, what we would call marginally acceptable strings is something a higher volume company is constantly having to struggle against. It's just the way humans are. When you make them your self you can afford to let them sit on the stretcher for 24 or 48 hours. You can redo the serving as many times as it takes to get them perfect you can fiddle and click at the strands to get them to line up perfectly. We can do all this TLC precisely because it is the only set we need to make today. So ya we better make higher quality strings. This is precisely why I started making my own and why I don't make them for other people. Can a volume make, make good strings sure but don't forget it becomes harder and harder to ensure that each string that leaves the "factory" is as good as they would like. Automan26 your stock parts el-cheapo jig was a stroke of genius. It has opened the door for a lot of personal home archery shops. That's made a big difference to them and the quality of their strings kudos to you brother!


----------



## Binary cam man

b0w_bender said:


> It's some what ironic that as a string builder gains commercial success their ability to retain the initial quality that got them that success becomes more and more challenging. You need to hire new people and train them and quality control their product. You need to document their failures and fire them if they cannot produce a quality string. It takes a special kind of person to have the patience and care to make a great string and having to do it all day long day after day has got to be difficult. I don't really hold less than perfect strings against the big boys for their challenges are steep, what we would call marginally acceptable strings is something a higher volume company is constantly having to struggle against. It's just the way humans are. When you make them your self you can afford to let them sit on the stretcher for 24 or 48 hours. You can redo the serving as many times as it takes to get them perfect you can fiddle and click at the strands to get them to line up perfectly. We can do all this TLC precisely because it is the only set we need to make today. So ya we better make higher quality strings. This is precisely why I started making my own and why I don't make them for other people. Can a volume make, make good strings sure but don't forget it becomes harder and harder to ensure that each string that leaves the "factory" is as good as they would like. Automan26 your stock parts el-cheapo jig was a stroke of genius. It has opened the door for a lot of personal home archery shops. That's made a big difference to them and the quality of their strings kudos to you brother!


 Bow Bender, first off I want to say I like you so don't take me wrong. Therese companies have millions of dollars in equipment. They should produce something better then they are. On a new bow they just throw the strings on. The next stop is the so called pro shop. They get the job tuning. And they know they are going to have a hard time. But they do it anyway. To make money. The domino effect. That's why I make my owne. Don't have to worry about this any more.to all of you involved on this site, THANKS for all your help teaching me how to make the highest quality strings on the planet. My bows are fast and accurate now. Before this I found it hard to be consistent. I thought it was me. After I put my first set on I found out. Ruined a half dozen arrows siting in. Amazing. Thanks to all. Please keep this site alive.


----------



## Etheis

Guess I'll play a bit


----------



## b0w_bender

Binary cam man said:


> Bow Bender, first off I want to say I like you so don't take me wrong. Therese companies have millions of dollars in equipment. They should produce something better then they are. On a new bow they just throw the strings on. The next stop is the so called pro shop. They get the job tuning. And they know they are going to have a hard time. But they do it anyway. To make money. The domino effect. That's why I make my own. Don't have to worry about this any more.to all of you involved on this site, THANKS for all your help teaching me how to make the highest quality strings on the planet. My bows are fast and accurate now. Before this I found it hard to be consistent. I thought it was me. After I put my first set on I found out. Ruined a half dozen arrows siting in. Amazing. Thanks to all. Please keep this site alive.


No offense taken, absolutely agree some times the high volume shops are less concerned about quality and all about the quick buck. My point is simply that even if they do care they have a lot of challenges to overcome in order to be able to keep their quality up to even a reasonable standard. It only takes one idiot to make all that fancy equipment useless You and I on the other hand can take our time and meet our own expectations and surprisingly enough I still screw up (unfortunately a lot). . It still takes some skill and more importantly pride in ones work to be able to make great stings. Meanwhile automan26 you and I and a whole bunch of others on here can take $50 dollars and cobble together some home depot hardware and make some astonishingly great quality strings. 

Binary cam man I appreciate the sentiment and the kind words, this goes for you and certainly anyone out there if you think I contribute something that is wrong or unfair or just plain stupid. For crying out loud you better tell me. I'm sure I say plenty of ignorant and or stupid stuff and the only way I'll ever know is if you tell me. This is a great community and one of the best threads ever, a good discourse makes it all worth it. I appreciate your input and your feedback and thanks for participating.


----------



## Binary cam man

b0w_bender said:


> No offense taken, absolutely agree some times the high volume shops are less concerned about quality and all about the quick buck. My point is simply that even if they do care they have a lot of challenges to overcome in order to be able to keep their quality up to even a reasonable standard. It only takes one idiot to make all that fancy equipment useless You and I on the other hand can take our time and meet our own expectations and surprisingly enough I still screw up (unfortunately a lot). . It still takes some skill and more importantly pride in ones work to be able to make great stings. Meanwhile automan26 you and I and a whole bunch of others on here can take $50 dollars and cobble together some home depot hardware and make some astonishingly great quality strings.
> 
> Binary cam man I appreciate the sentiment and the kind words, this goes for you and certainly anyone out there if you think I contribute something that is wrong or unfair or just plain stupid. For crying out loud you better tell me. I'm sure I say plenty of ignorant and or stupid stuff and the only way I'll ever know is if you tell me. This is a great community and one of the best threads ever, a good discourse makes it all worth it. I appreciate your input and your feedback and thanks for participating.


I concur,Bow bender. You never said anything wrong. Since I have your ear, these people make strings for a living. You you'll think it would become second nature to them. I know the process and I still mess up also. But I will scrap it and start over. I now put up a black board and I write on it to keep things strait. Works well for me. This is why this hit a nerve for me. I just bought a brand new bow. The usual price $1000.00. It was never fired. In the box sealed. I took it out of the box and started to check it out. First the bow then the string. The bow is good. The string wigged me out. Serving separation in three different places.the loop ends had serving separation and the fuzzies coming through. Did I say never fired? I took the threads off, put them on my jig measured them, adjusted them, put them back on, tuned the bow just so I could shoot it. Now I'm making a set for it. Do you think this is right? This is why I'm here. And loving it. But the poor guy that can't do this, guess where he is going? That's why I can't stick up for them. Please don't take me the wrong way. I know $1000.00 today isn't much, but to some people it is. Heck, I must have thrown away $300.00 in material learning to make strings. So that's why I didn't get too P Oed at the bow. The string yes. But because of all of you I can now make the best strings on the planet. Thanks and enjoy what we do.


----------



## caspian

b0w_bender said:


> It's some what ironic that as a string builder gains commercial success their ability to retain the initial quality that got them that success becomes more and more challenging. You need to hire new people and train them and quality control their product. You need to document their failures and fire them if they cannot produce a quality string. It takes a special kind of person to have the patience and care to make a great string and having to do it all day long day after day has got to be difficult. I don't really hold less than perfect strings against the big boys for their challenges are steep, what we would call marginally acceptable strings is something a higher volume company is constantly having to struggle against. It's just the way humans are. When you make them your self you can afford to let them sit on the stretcher for 24 or 48 hours. You can redo the serving as many times as it takes to get them perfect you can fiddle and click at the strands to get them to line up perfectly. We can do all this TLC precisely because it is the only set we need to make today. So ya we better make higher quality strings. This is precisely why I started making my own and why I don't make them for other people. Can a volume make, make good strings sure but don't forget it becomes harder and harder to ensure that each string that leaves the "factory" is as good as they would like. Automan26 your stock parts el-cheapo jig was a stroke of genius. It has opened the door for a lot of personal home archery shops. That's made a big difference to them and the quality of their strings kudos to you brother!


I think a lot of it depends on the sort of market you want to compete in. if a company decides they're going to compete on price, then they can't afford the same quality any more. there's simply a time component to making a quality string that can't be overcome without spending a *lot* of money on machine automation, so most people end up striking a balance between quality and making a reasonable profit from being in business.

I bought a commercial string set from a name sponsor here recently, because I wanted to have something ready to go the instant a new-to-me bow arrived. honestly, it's OK, but that's it. it seems stable enough so far, but the serving is far from what a hobbyist could produce with a little (not a lot) more time - what always seems to suffer is the starting of the end serving where the loop gets closed. here's an example of a local(ish) shop I saw a while ago - I'm not sure that the forum respects the time-start link, so copy and paste into your browser. I'm not bashing the shop in question, but I can only say that I wouldn't have been putting that out there for people to see.



Code:


https://youtu.be/2dokDnpiPxY?t=3m10s

companies also need to accept that time is a part of making a decent string, give their staff adequate support (time) to do so, and not fall into the trap of pushing people for increased productivity (read: less time) because they've fallen into the trap of competing on price with the lowest common denominator.

it is a mistake to compete solely on price, because there's too many other operators out there that will undercut you, and too many customers that will support the behaviour by buying on price above all else, and then whining about the product later.


----------



## Binary cam man

Here it is


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## Binary cam man

Want to see more?


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## Binary cam man




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## Binary cam man




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## Binary cam man




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## Binary cam man

I have one more for you. This is not bad mouthing, I'm helping advertise!


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## Huntinsker

Well to get the thread back on track, here's some phone pics of my wife's new threads for her first bow.


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## K.G.K.

Very nice!


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Well to get the thread back on track, here's some phone pics of my wife's new threads for her first bow.
> 
> View attachment 2225433
> View attachment 2225435


Pretty


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## bryanroberts

Nice threads Huntinsker!! I'd say she is happy with those..


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> Well to get the thread back on track, here's some phone pics of my wife's new threads for her first bow.
> 
> View attachment 2225433
> View attachment 2225435


What are you using for clear serving? What I think I see is either no serving at all or else some really nice clear material. Either way it looks great.

Automan


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## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> What are you using for clear serving? What I think I see is either no serving at all or else some really nice clear material. Either way it looks great.
> 
> Automan


x2.. that's what I was thinking but didn't want to say nice serving if there wasn't any lol...


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> What are you using for clear serving? What I think I see is either no serving at all or else some really nice clear material. Either way it looks great.
> 
> Automan





bryanroberts said:


> x2.. that's what I was thinking but didn't want to say nice serving if there wasn't any lol...


That is a .002" braided spectra fishing line from Cabela's. It's this stuff in 6lb, "Frost" color. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabe...ll+Products&Ntt=cabela's+ripcord#BVQAWidgetID

I use it through the Bear Hinge Guard which can be a little rough on cables. I'll also use it through pretty much any cable slide if I want the set to really last. It's such a small diameter that you can't feel it going through the slide and it's super slick so it doesn't wear hardly at all. Good stuff in this diameter. I tried it in thicker diameters and it doesn't go as clear as halo or 3D does.


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> That is a .002" braided spectra fishing line from Cabela's. It's this stuff in 6lb, "Frost" color. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabe...ll+Products&Ntt=cabela's+ripcord#BVQAWidgetID


Are you using that on the roller guards only?


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## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> Are you using that on the roller guards only?


I actually don't use it on the roller guard bows that I own. I use .006 halo for that. This stuff I use for the Bear Hinge Guard or through any cable slide that I want to. It works great.


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> I actually don't use it on the roller guard bows that I own. I use .006 halo for that. This stuff I use for the Bear Hinge Guard or through any cable slide that I want to. It works great.


cool.. looks great


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## deerbum

I finally had the time to make a few test strings. Made a 35", 60" and this is my 90". Learned a lot after my first string. Made a few modifications to the jig as well as learned where to place the bandages on the fingers _before_ they get sliced up from the tags:mg:. Making a set for my old Mathews LX is my next project- can't wait!


----------



## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> I finally had the time to make a few test strings. Made a 35", 60" and this is my 90". Learned a lot after my first string. Made a few modifications to the jig as well as learned where to place the bandages on the fingers _before_ they get sliced up from the tags:mg:. Making a set for my old Mathews LX is my next project- can't wait!


Looks good! I use duct tape to wrap my pinky fingers and index fingers so they don't get cut.


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> Looks good! I use duct tape to wrap my pinky fingers and index fingers so they don't get cut.


My pinky right in the first knuckle by your fingernail when I'm pulling tag ends gets me all the time if I forget to wrap it up


----------



## v5cvbb

You are smarter than I am. I didn't know I needed bandages until the damage was done.


----------



## deerbum

Huntinsker said:


> Looks good! I use duct tape to wrap my pinky fingers and index fingers so they don't get cut.


Thanks! I'm pretty happy with my first set, had to take out 6 twists from the string to lengthen it a bit but otherwise up to spec. I used white halo hoping I would get a more transparent look with the end servings. I think black servings look better with this color combo. Don't quite have the burnishing technique down to get the smooth rope look yet but I'm sure that will come. It took me around 1.5 hours to build the strings and 3.5 to serve, my hats off to those making a living doing this! Many thanks to you and Automan as well as the dozens of others I have learned from on this thread and others.


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## bryanroberts

I like the clear serving but it almost has to be bright flo colors to see it good and not muddy up. I second the thanks to all that have helped me (you know who you are) this thread has opened up new chapters in my knowledge and how to with archery..


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## K.G.K.

deerbum said:


> Thanks! I'm pretty happy with my first set, had to take out 6 twists from the string to lengthen it a bit but otherwise up to spec. I used white halo hoping I would get a more transparent look with the end servings. I think black servings look better with this color combo. Don't quite have the burnishing technique down to get the smooth rope look yet but I'm sure that will come. It took me around 1.5 hours to build the strings and 3.5 to serve, my hats off to those making a living doing this! Many thanks to you and Automan as well as the dozens of others I have learned from on this thread and others.


You might want to invest in a NW Spinner. It will cut your serving time down to a tenth of that. Nice job!


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## deerbum

K.G.K. said:


> You might want to invest in a NW Spinner. It will cut your serving time down to a tenth of that. Nice job!


That was with the NW spinner though not too efficiently-lol!


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## K.G.K.

Lol, it looks great!!


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## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> Thanks! I'm pretty happy with my first set, had to take out 6 twists from the string to lengthen it a bit but otherwise up to spec. I used white halo hoping I would get a more transparent look with the end servings. I think black servings look better with this color combo. Don't quite have the burnishing technique down to get the smooth rope look yet but I'm sure that will come. It took me around 1.5 hours to build the strings and 3.5 to serve, my hats off to those making a living doing this! Many thanks to you and Automan as well as the dozens of others I have learned from on this thread and others.


I think that clear serving looks kind of cool like that. It's almost like silver serving that has it's own pinstripe. If you want clear serving to really "shine", bright colors and with good contrast really make it look clear.


----------



## SamT

15lb (0.006"dia) Cabela's Ripcord Pro in Frost on Silver/black and Fluorescent Green looks like it has its own pin.


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> 15lb (0.006"dia) Cabela's Ripcord Pro in Frost on Silver/black and Fluorescent Green looks like it has its own pin.
> View attachment 2230906


I like the color combo. I tried the Ripcord Pro for clear serving and could not get it to go as clear as halo because it has "Max Color Retention" according to the box. They die the material some how so it hold the white color better than white halo. That should be a good thing if you want the yellow or green serving but it's not quite as good for clear. It wears really well though.


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## SamT

Huntinsker said:


> I like the color combo. I tried the Ripcord Pro for clear serving and could not get it to go as clear as halo because it has "Max Color Retention" according to the box. They die the material some how so it hold the white color better than white halo. That should be a good thing if you want the yellow or green serving but it's not quite as good for clear. It wears really well though.


Yes, not quite what I'd call "clear", but looking more like the "frost" color as advertised, though I don't think they had "serving material" in mind when they produced it. LOL. It is wearing quite well at the cross point for the buss cables on my SZ350.


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> Yes, not quite what I'd call "clear", but looking more like the "frost" color as advertised, though I don't think they had "serving material" in mind when they produced it. LOL. It is wearing quite well at the cross point for the buss cables on my SZ350.


Yeah it's good for serving. I use .002", 6lb test, for cable slides that are hard on serving. It wears really well even for being such a small diameter.


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## Huntinsker

Huntinsker said:


> Yeah it's good for serving. I use .002", 6lb test, for cable slides that are hard on serving. It wears really well even for being such a small diameter.


Sorry. I meant cable slides that are hard on cables.......not serving.


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## caspian

deerbum said:


> It took me around 1.5 hours to build the strings and 3.5 to serve, my hats off to those making a living doing this!


pros will be a lot more familiar with the layup and stretching process, and will do more than one thing at once so they're not sitting around waiting on one piece of equipment to come free.

they also won't be serving by hand - the time alone would kill you when you consider the price a 3-cable set goes for these days.


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## Huntinsker

caspian said:


> pros will be a lot more familiar with the layup and stretching process, and will do more than one thing at once so they're not sitting around waiting on one piece of equipment to come free.
> 
> they also won't be serving by hand - the time alone would kill you when you consider the price a 3-cable set goes for these days.


That's a good point. My biggest allocation to build time is just sitting and waiting for threads to stretch. I don't have room to have multiple jigs so while I have couple made, I still use just the one jig/stretcher. It'll cut a lot of time once I get to where I can have multiple jigs set up.


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## deerbum

I have a hard time holding the scrap loop for pulling the tags through on the ends so I came up with this idea based off of a tent line tensioner. It holds well on the serving.


----------



## MandK

Hi guys, great thread! Been looking for over a year. Just retired and moved up to Oregon to take care of my parents and have some time to give it a try. Ordered some BCY-X from 
60X and have a quick question, I see that 24 strand is recommended. Is that for string and cables? Or do you go up to 26 on the cables?
Thanks Mark


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## bryanroberts

on the X most are doing 24 string and 26 cables.
fury is 28 and 32.


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## MandK

Thanks, that's what i thought but wanted to make sure. Going out to set my posts to build a set for my Assassin, if that goes well a set for my Experience. Then my wife will
need a set for her Carbon Overdrive. This could get busy!


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## bryanroberts

MandK said:


> Thanks, that's what i thought but wanted to make sure. Going out to set my posts to build a set for my Assassin, if that goes well a set for my Experience. Then my wife will
> need a set for her Carbon Overdrive. This could get busy!


I used to think that a few on here were nuts for changing their strings for every season until I started making them...Now I'm nuts too!!! lol


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## bryanroberts

I just want to say thanks to automan26, Huntinsker, 2xlung, and anyone else who has answered any of my 1 million questions. This has to be the best thread ever on archerytalk and I have met some of the best people on here and I couldn't of done anything I have accomplished without everyone's help. If your sitting on the fence wondering whether you should give it a try trust me when I say you will love it.. The only problems I have with it is not enough bows that need strings and never enough material.. Seriously guys thank you so very much! This is a bcy x string for my cousin with his favorite colors. More to come with bcy and fury..


----------



## automan26

bryanroberts said:


> View attachment 2232151
> I just want to say thanks to automan26, Huntinsker, 2xlung, and anyone else who has answered any of my 1 million questions. This has to be the best thread ever on archerytalk and I have met some of the best people on here and I couldn't of done anything I have accomplished without everyone's help. If your sitting on the fence wondering whether you should give it a try trust me when I say you will love it.. The only problems I have with it is not enough bows that need strings and never enough material.. Seriously guys thank you so very much! This is a bcy x string for my cousin with his favorite colors. More to come with bcy and fury..


Welcome to the brotherhood of string builders. Those threads are as good as anything I have seen posted here so far. It looks like that long drive you told me about paid off big time.

Automan


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> on the X most are doing 24 string and 26 cables.
> fury is 28 and 32.


Why can't you do 24 string and 24 cables with X?


----------



## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> Why can't you do 24 string and 24 cables with X?


you can.. cables have always been built with a few more strands and one of the guys with knowledge much better than mine will tell us about it.


----------



## RobColella

bryanroberts said:


> View attachment 2232151
> I just want to say thanks to automan26, Huntinsker, 2xlung, and anyone else who has answered any of my 1 million questions. This has to be the best thread ever on archerytalk and I have met some of the best people on here and I couldn't of done anything I have accomplished without everyone's help. If your sitting on the fence wondering whether you should give it a try trust me when I say you will love it.. The only problems I have with it is not enough bows that need strings and never enough material.. Seriously guys thank you so very much! This is a bcy x string for my cousin with his favorite colors. More to come with bcy and fury..


Looks great. I have a jig I'm finishing up to do the same. I think I've bugged all the same people with questions. All of them have been willing to share their knowledge and experience. Good luck going forward and I second the thank you to all the same people you identified.

Looking forward to more posts to come.


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> you can.. cables have always been built with a few more strands and one of the guys with knowledge much better than mine will tell us about it.


 there isn't any standards. Only limitations. On bcy x 2 strand +or-. I use 24 in the cables because I like to bump up the serving. All of my bows are rough on serving on the cables. The original cables are made 24 strand 452x and .007 or .008 serving. X is a little thinner, so I can bump up the serving to .014 and serve it tightly. When I say tightly, .008 will break under this pressure, and has. The serving fits nice because X starts off thinner, not weaker. This took care of the serving wear on the cables. And separation! As you can see in some of my prior posts. Strait from the factory, never fired, serving separation.


----------



## automan26

When I ordered some 60# Chinese fishing line I thought I was ordering black, but mistakenly (fortunately) I ordered gray instead. After finding out what I had done I slapped together a short test string and served it in gray just to see how it looked. Now I am wondering why I waited so long to order gray. It looks great if used in the right combinations.

Automan


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> When I ordered some 60# Chinese fishing line I thought I was ordering black, but mistakenly (fortunately) I ordered gray instead. After finding out what I had done I slapped together a short test string and served it in gray just to see how it looked. Now I am wondering why I waited so long to order gray. It looks great if used in the right combinations.
> 
> Automan


definetly looks good.


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## deerbum

Made a set for my wife's Mission X3 and hit the lengths closer this time. I used Chinese Spectra 40lb and 100lb for the ends and center respectively.


----------



## bryanroberts

deerbum said:


> Made a set for my wife's Mission X3 and hit the lengths closer this time. I used Chinese Spectra 40lb and 100lb for the ends and center respectively.


Sweet threads!! Are you liking the 40# better than halo? besides the price..lol


----------



## deerbum

bryanroberts said:


> Sweet threads!! Are you liking the 40# better than halo? besides the price.
> Thanks for the compliment. The 40# winds on nicely, I'll probably stick with it unless I run into problems.


----------



## bryanroberts

deerbum said:


> bryanroberts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet threads!! Are you liking the 40# better than halo? besides the price.
> Thanks for the compliment. The 40# winds on nicely, I'll probably stick with it unless I run into problems.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been thinking about it but I didn't know how it was doing around sharp bends in the cams
Click to expand...


----------



## soldier1265

Anything wrong with 22 strand string and 24 strand cables with x?


----------



## bryanroberts

soldier1265 said:


> Anything wrong with 22 strand string and 24 strand cables with x?


No.. bcy just recommends 24 strands. There are some cam tracks that won't take a 24 with Halo or 3d and one guy I know went 22 strand string with .08 serving.


----------



## bryanroberts

bryanroberts said:


> No.. bcy just recommends 24 strands. There are some cam tracks that won't take a 24 with Halo or 3d and one guy I know went 22 strand string with .08 serving.


Huntinsker, automan26, 2xlung, and several others on here can give you better info as to the why and how's but I do know that you can.


----------



## Binary cam man

Happy Memorial Day and for those who served THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. No punn intended.


----------



## Hiram

Thank you so much sir!


----------



## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> Happy Memorial Day and for those who served THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. No punn intended.


Thanks man!!


----------



## MilwTD

Gentlemen,
I have just finished reading all 2364 posts. Whew!! What a treasure trove of string building knowledge. 

I will be building a string jig using the original plans with two modifications (the thrust bearing and sleeve mods). 
It will be used to building 15 sets of strings for the local YMCA summer camp.

Thank you for helping this retired shop teacher find a great solution to solve a problem. 

These first strings will be built with BCY B55 (because the bows, 6 Barnetts and 7 Bears, are being used by 3rd and 4th graders) in two different color combos so the counselors know which is for which type bow.

Blessings


----------



## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> I have a hard time holding the scrap loop for pulling the tags through on the ends so I came up with this idea based off of a tent line tensioner. It holds well on the serving.


Nice. I like this. :thumbs_up


----------



## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> View attachment 2232151
> I just want to say thanks to automan26, Huntinsker, 2xlung, and anyone else who has answered any of my 1 million questions. This has to be the best thread ever on archerytalk and I have met some of the best people on here and I couldn't of done anything I have accomplished without everyone's help. If your sitting on the fence wondering whether you should give it a try trust me when I say you will love it.. The only problems I have with it is not enough bows that need strings and never enough material.. Seriously guys thank you so very much! This is a bcy x string for my cousin with his favorite colors. More to come with bcy and fury..


Looks great! Glad you're having fun. It's a great skill to have and it really brings a sense of satisfaction when you meet one of your archery goals with a string that you've built yourself.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Why can't you do 24 string and 24 cables with X?





soldier1265 said:


> Anything wrong with 22 strand string and 24 strand cables with x?


Strand count is to a point, completely up to the builder and their particular wants/needs. Many builders will increase the strand count for cables so that you get a cable that's more resistant to creep and has a firmer back wall when using cable stops. The more material that's in the cable, the stronger it will be. On most bows, the cables are what keeps the cams in time. The less the cables creep, the better your bow will perform over time. The cables are also under the most load most of the time. On a 60lb bow, a buss cable may have something like 300lbs on it at full draw depending on the bow geometry, (I read that in a thread one time where the engineers were making me feel dumb). That's a lot of weight so the more strands you have the better. 

You can also change the diameter of the string/cables to increase or decrease let off and how the draw cycle feels. Thicker cables/strings will sit further away from the center of the cam which will smooth out the draw cycle and decrease the let off slightly. The smaller diameter threads will sit deeper in the cam grooves to it'll increase the let off and will make the draw feel a little more aggressive. These changes in the draw cycle will be small and you have to really be "in tune" with your equipment to notice the changes in most cases. 

Strings are often built with fewer strands to add a little speed to the bow. It's not much but you may gain 2-3fps if you nock down the strand count by 2 strands. 

Another consideration is the cam track size. If you go too wide on a lot of cams, your thread may not ride low enough in the track and it can cause premature wear and serving separation from the increased side pressure on the serving. You basically wedge the serving into the cam track and it gets pulled on each and ever shot. So whatever you do, try to keep your finished served diameter consistent. You may have to change serving diameters to keep the finished diameter consistent.

As long as you're not under building the threads by too much, you can go lower on the strand count if you like. String materials are much much stronger than they need to be to keep the bow together. However, if you go too small, you'll run into threads that will be more prone to stability issues and if you go extreme, you can have strings break on the shot. 

I've done some testing on my own and found very little difference between thick and thin strings as far as speed goes. The most speed gain I ever saw was 2fps but that was on a skinny string made of 22 strands of 8190. IMO, going skinny isn't worth the decreased stability.


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## bryanroberts

Welcome back Huntinsker!


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## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> Welcome back Huntinsker!


Thanks. I was off the grid for the holiday weekend. Hope everyone had a fun, safe weekend.


----------



## MandK

Just want to say thank you for this great thread! Made my first set this weekend, flo green,silver with a black pinstripe. Everything turned out great. Put them on my bow and the cables landed right between the timing dots. I fired over 300 arrows and no peep rotation. I used .014 flo green Halo on cables and .014 white Halo on string. Really looks sharp on my Assassin.
Not very computer savvy so don't know how to post pics, But as Phil Robertson would say I'm Happy,Happy,Happy
Mark


----------



## bryanroberts

MandK said:


> Just want to say thank you for this great thread! Made my first set this weekend, flo green,silver with a black pinstripe. Everything turned out great. Put them on my bow and the cables landed right between the timing dots. I fired over 300 arrows and no peep rotation. I used .014 flo green Halo on cables and .014 white Halo on string. Really looks sharp on my Assassin.
> Not very computer savvy so don't know how to post pics, But as Phil Robertson would say I'm Happy,Happy,Happy
> Mark


Good feeling when you make your own string and it looks and performs great isn't it.. Now watch out cause its addicting.. I even stuck a set on my 4 years olds bow..lol... just can't help it


----------



## Huntinsker

MandK said:


> Just want to say thank you for this great thread! Made my first set this weekend, flo green,silver with a black pinstripe. Everything turned out great. Put them on my bow and the cables landed right between the timing dots. I fired over 300 arrows and no peep rotation. I used .014 flo green Halo on cables and .014 white Halo on string. Really looks sharp on my Assassin.
> Not very computer savvy so don't know how to post pics, But as Phil Robertson would say I'm Happy,Happy,Happy
> Mark


Awesome! I'd say that's an excellent result especially for your first set.


----------



## automan26

Here is my holiday/rainy day project. I was kicking around Menards, looking for more jig parts when I accidentally reached into a bin and pulled out something I initially wasn't looking for. It was a Unistrut, 7 1/4" X 1 5/8" X 3/16", 4-hole plate. I threw it back and the moment it hit the bin, a light went on and I realized I might be able to use these for a modification. Many guys want to build the jig Huntinsker showed at the start of this thread, but some have difficulty finding a supplier for the large metal bar he uses. I got the idea that I could mount two of these plates, back-to-back, in between the corner brackets for an extension which could allow the jig to be used with the NW Spinner. Well I bought everything I would need and went to my shop at school and tossed this together. The jig in the pics is what I built, but in the pic it is just sitting, lightly assembled, waiting for the paint to harden.

Today I set it up, adjusted everything and took it for its maiden voyage. I was concerned about any flexing of the extension plates, but under full tension they only flexed about 1/4" each. That is fine with me. It will be awhile before I use it to build a string, but I see no reason why it won't function perfectly.

If anyone wants to build a jig and cannot come across the bar stock which Huntinsker used for his jig, you can simply purchase 4 of these plates and follow his build instructions. The slight difference would be that I had to use an extra 1/2" X 1" bolt, a nut and 2, 7/16" washers to bolt the extensions together just above the corner brackets. You will also notice that I still use the sections of pipe on my jig that Huntinsker does not use. I don't know why I still choose to stick with these, maybe I am just stubborn. They may be more trouble than they are worth. You can lose them if you like and everything should work just fine. I still use the Chevy valve spring, but there are other options you may wish to consider.

I have a crazy idea that might be made to work. There is enough room between the string on this jig and the channel for me to mount one of my shorter jigs under it. If I use a double section of Unistrut, I could mount the taller jig to build the string, then fit the shorter jig under the string and use that to build a cable. On the bottom side I could mount a third small jig and build the second cable on the bottom. I would simply have to flip the setup over to access the third jig. This way I could build my string and both cables at the same time. I know there will be some procedures to be worked out, but it just might be worth a try.

Automan


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## shinobi3

That looks awesome


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## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> Here is my holiday/rainy day project. I was kicking around Menards, looking for more jig parts when I accidentally reached into a bin and pulled out something I initially wasn't looking for. It was a Unistrut, 7 1/4" X 1 5/8" X 3/16", 4-hole plate. I threw it back and the moment it hit the bin, a light went on and I realized I might be able to use these for a modification. Many guys want to build the jig Huntinsker showed at the start of this thread, but some have difficulty finding a supplier for the large metal bar he uses. I got the idea that I could mount two of these plates, back-to-back, in between the corner brackets for an extension which could allow the jig to be used with the NW Spinner. Well I bought everything I would need and went to my shop at school and tossed this together. The jig in the pics is what I built, but in the pic it is just sitting, lightly assembled, waiting for the paint to harden.
> 
> Today I set it up, adjusted everything and took it for its maiden voyage. I was concerned about any flexing of the extension plates, but under full tension they only flexed about 1/4" each. That is fine with me. It will be awhile before I use it to build a string, but I see no reason why it won't function perfectly.
> 
> If anyone wants to build a jig and cannot come across the bar stock which Huntinsker used for his jig, you can simply purchase 4 of these plates and follow his build instructions. The slight difference would be that I had to use an extra 1/2" X 1" bolt, a nut and 2, 7/16" washers to bolt the extensions together just above the corner brackets. You will also notice that I still use the sections of pipe on my jig that Huntinsker does not use. I don't know why I still choose to stick with these, maybe I am just stubborn. They may be more trouble than they are worth. You can lose them if you like and everything should work just fine. I still use the Chevy valve spring, but there are other options you may wish to consider.
> 
> I have a crazy idea that might be made to work. There is enough room between the string on this jig and the channel for me to mount one of my shorter jigs under it. If I use a double section of Unistrut, I could mount the taller jig to build the string, then fit the shorter jig under the string and use that to build a cable. On the bottom side I could mount a third small jig and build the second cable on the bottom. I would simply have to flip the setup over to access the third jig. This way I could build my string and both cables at the same time. I know there will be some procedures to be worked out, but it just might be worth a try.
> 
> Automan


You never cease to amaze me automan26... Sweet job!


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## automan26

I played around a bit more with the jig and I would make two suggestions to anyone who wants to go this route; 1) Lose the pipe spacers, 2) Go with a double section of Unistrut. This is the way Huntinsker set up his jig earlier. When I was operating my shorter version of the jig I did not have to deal with the leverage issue on the strut caused by the taller jig. This extra leverage causes a bit more flexing in the strut than I had planned on which eats up some of the adjustment range. When adjusting the tension, some of the adjustment goes into compressing the spring and some of it goes into flexing the strut. Losing the pipe sections gives you a lot more adjustment. I found that I needed just a little more adjustment range to reach 300# with the taller jig than with the shorter version. With every change comes the possibility of surprises.

Automan


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Strand count is to a point, completely up to the builder and their particular wants/needs. Many builders will increase the strand count for cables so that you get a cable that's more resistant to creep and has a firmer back wall when using cable stops. The more material that's in the cable, the stronger it will be. On most bows, the cables are what keeps the cams in time. The less the cables creep, the better your bow will perform over time. The cables are also under the most load most of the time. On a 60lb bow, a buss cable may have something like 300lbs on it at full draw depending on the bow geometry, (I read that in a thread one time where the engineers were making me feel dumb). That's a lot of weight so the more strands you have the better.
> 
> You can also change the diameter of the string/cables to increase or decrease let off and how the draw cycle feels. Thicker cables/strings will sit further away from the center of the cam which will smooth out the draw cycle and decrease the let off slightly. The smaller diameter threads will sit deeper in the cam grooves to it'll increase the let off and will make the draw feel a little more aggressive. These changes in the draw cycle will be small and you have to really be "in tune" with your equipment to notice the changes in most cases.
> 
> Strings are often built with fewer strands to add a little speed to the bow. It's not much but you may gain 2-3fps if you nock down the strand count by 2 strands.
> 
> Another consideration is the cam track size. If you go too wide on a lot of cams, your thread may not ride low enough in the track and it can cause premature wear and serving separation from the increased side pressure on the serving. You basically wedge the serving into the cam track and it gets pulled on each and ever shot. So whatever you do, try to keep your finished served diameter consistent. You may have to change serving diameters to keep the finished diameter consistent.
> 
> As long as you're not under building the threads by too much, you can go lower on the strand count if you like. String materials are much much stronger than they need to be to keep the bow together. However, if you go too small, you'll run into threads that will be more prone to stability issues and if you go extreme, you can have strings break on the shot.
> 
> I've done some testing on my own and found very little difference between thick and thin strings as far as speed goes. The most speed gain I ever saw was 2fps but that was on a skinny string made of 22 strands of 8190. IMO, going skinny isn't worth the decreased stability.


I concur. Thank You. Here is my newest problem. I had to change my process to fight off the bulging, loose strands,ect. My new process works well. Twist, stretch, relax and measure at 100 and it's spot on. Serve at 350, let relax 12 hours,measure at 100, 3/16 too big. Yes I serve very tight. Looks like plastic when done. Do I reduce the initial post setting by 3/16? Do I put twists in,3 on each side, makes it look like rope, but at 100 it becomes smooth again and measures spot on. I think when I serve it stretches. I don't like adding twists after serving. My next thought, just add 6 twists to the number of twists. After the stretch and relax, at 100 I should be 3/16 short. After the serving and relax I should be spot on. What do you think? Please and Thank You.


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## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> I concur. Thank You. Here is my newest problem. I had to change my process to fight off the bulging, loose strands,ect. My new process works well. Twist, stretch, relax and measure at 100 and it's spot on. Serve at 350, let relax 12 hours,measure at 100, 3/16 too big. Yes I serve very tight. Looks like plastic when done. Do I reduce the initial post setting by 3/16? Do I put twists in,3 on each side, makes it look like rope, but at 100 it becomes smooth again and measures spot on. I think when I serve it stretches. I don't like adding twists after serving. My next thought, just add 6 twists to the number of twists. After the stretch and relax, at 100 I should be 3/16 short. After the serving and relax I should be spot on. What do you think? Please and Thank You.


If you're consistently 3/16" long after serving and you can count on that, then you could just nock 3/16" off the initial post setting. I'm like you and don't like to add/remove a bunch of twists after serving. For me, I know that on an average length string, if I have it about 1/8" short before serving, after serving it'll come out perfect. One twist here or there is okay but 6 would drive me nuts.


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> If you're consistently 3/16" long after serving and you can count on that, then you could just nock 3/16" off the initial post setting. I'm like you and don't like to add/remove a bunch of twists after serving. For me, I know that on an average length string, if I have it about 1/8" short before serving, after serving it'll come out perfect. One twist here or there is okay but 6 would drive me nuts.


. That is for a 61 1/8 inch string. Using X. Cables are in the 30 inch area. Would that make them be 3/32 off? And with the cables we already make them 1/8 shorter. I'm throwing this string out. Halo serving and all. OUCH! THANKS.


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## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> . That is for a 61 1/8 inch string. Using X. *Cables are in the 30 inch area. Would that make them be 3/32 off?* And with the cables we already make them 1/8 shorter. I'm throwing this string out. Halo serving and all. OUCH! THANKS.


Maybe. It's all a game of trial and error unfortunately. You can make an educated guess like that but until you try, you can't be sure.


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Maybe. It's all a game of trial and error unfortunately. You can make an educated guess like that but until you try, you can't be sure.


. I thought by this stag of the game there may be a revised formula. Trial and error is the reason the first half of my process is perfect. But I paid the price in material. And if this is what it takes to make a perfect string, I will pay the price again it's probably the only way to do it. You are right. Thanks for your time. Now let's get back to string building so I can fix my problem. LOL.


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## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> . I thought by this stag of the game there may be a revised formula. Trial and error is the reason the first half of my process is perfect. But I paid the price in material. And if this is what it takes to make a perfect string, I will pay the price again it's probably the only way to do it. You are right. Thanks for your time. Now let's get back to string building so I can fix my problem. LOL.


once I figured out how to make and serve a string I made test strings of 20 40 60 80 100 inches... recorded all my numbers..sounds crazy I know but I figured out what my numbers were right off the bat before I was doing pinstripe, 3 and 4 colors. I figured this way if I was throwing strings away they wouldn't be ones I put alot of time in. So now I can put my numbers in, lay out and twist, stretch and relax, serve and I'm spot on my numbers.


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## bryanroberts

I made the royal blue and black with green pin a couple of days ago and my cousin thought he might like it with orange better.bcy x


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> View attachment 2234173
> I made the royal blue and black with green pin a couple of days ago and my cousin thought he might like it with orange better.bcy x


. Nice!


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> once I figured out how to make and serve a string I made test strings of 20 40 60 80 100 inches... recorded all my numbers..sounds crazy I know but I figured out what my numbers were right off the bat before I was doing pinstripe, 3 and 4 colors. I figured this way if I was throwing strings away they wouldn't be ones I put alot of time in. So now I can put my numbers in, lay out and twist, stretch and relax, serve and I'm spot on my numbers.


 I also did that,using the first formula in this thread. Little did I know there were problems with it,loose strands,bulging and length problems. After some time others have spoken about this also. So I knew I had to come up with my own method. And I did. And it is perfect until I served at 350. Then let it rest over night. Then measured at 100 the next day to find out it was 3/16 of an inch too long. Before I measured it, it looked perfect. No bulges, not ropey looking. Had to put twists in it to get the length. Then it happened, bulges and ropey. Talk about highs and lows. Back to the jig. LOL. What I'm trying to do is take a string off a bow,that's in tune, build to that measurement, put it back without having to put twists in it. And have it back in tune. The cables are another story. The legs may need a twist or two, but the main cable should not have to be twisted. I'll get it. And Thanks for your input.


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## olliedog

I haven't checked in to this thread in awhile but glad its still going strong. I've got a question regarding serving separation. Built my first set a few months back for my hunting buddies bear attitude. Everything went really well I'd say for the first go. We were shooting over the holiday weekend and I asked to look it over to see how it was holding up. Immediately spotted serving separation on the cable where it goes over the adjustable mod. The radius on that mod looks pretty small but I can't deny that the old cable lived a hard life but it didn't show separation there. Wear yes, separation no. So, am I right to assume that I need more tension on the serving jig? I figured I was serving tight but seems like the data tells me I wasn't. Cheers, Chris.


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## bryanroberts

olliedog said:


> I haven't checked in to this thread in awhile but glad its still going strong. I've got a question regarding serving separation. Built my first set a few months back for my hunting buddies bear attitude. Everything went really well I'd say for the first go. We were shooting over the holiday weekend and I asked to look it over to see how it was holding up. Immediately spotted serving separation on the cable where it goes over the adjustable mod. The radius on that mod looks pretty small but I can't deny that the old cable lived a hard life but it didn't show separation there. Wear yes, separation no. So, am I right to assume that I need more tension on the serving jig? I figured I was serving tight but seems like the data tells me I wasn't. Cheers, Chris.


If I'm not mistaken, doesn't bear run a thick clear like serving right there. That one bend on the attitude mod is pretty severe and I've seen many bows separate right there. I don't know what bear uses on that cable but it's not like a .14 halo it's alot thicker and milky looking if you will?


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## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> I also did that,using the first formula in this thread. Little did I know there were problems with it,loose strands,bulging and length problems. After some time others have spoken about this also. So I knew I had to come up with my own method. And I did. And it is perfect until I served at 350. Then let it rest over night. Then measured at 100 the next day to find out it was 3/16 of an inch too long. Before I measured it, it looked perfect. No bulges, not ropey looking. Had to put twists in it to get the length. Then it happened, bulges and ropey. Talk about highs and lows. Back to the jig. LOL. What I'm trying to do is take a string off a bow,that's in tune, build to that measurement, put it back without having to put twists in it. And have it back in tune. The cables are another story. The legs may need a twist or two, but the main cable should not have to be twisted. I'll get it. And Thanks for your input.


Well don't take my post like because I did those test strings that now everything is perfect..lol.. cause its not.. I learn something everytime I make a string and I get frustrated almost everytime i build a string. I've never been more than an 1/8 off but on a 90+ string I can handle that. Are you using Brownell or bcy. Reason I'm asking is I have gained more when serving on fury then I have bcy x.


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## olliedog

Thanks Bryan. I think you're correct. I'll check the old cable tomorrow but I do remember clear or milky white. Maybe a thicker serving is all that's needed.


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## bryanroberts

olliedog said:


> Thanks Bryan. I think you're correct. I'll check the old cable tomorrow but I do remember clear or milky white. Maybe a thicker serving is all that's needed.


I don't know if thicker is better or maybe powergrip would do good? I would measure that serving that's on there and see what size it is. whatever it is its tuff.. I don't want to say gummy but it's different. someone on here will know. I know I saw one and in that spot it was flattened and looked like it was peeling not just a thread separating. .


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> Well don't take my post like because I did those test strings that now everything is perfect..lol.. cause its not.. I learn something everytime I make a string and I get frustrated almost everytime i build a string. I've never been more than an 1/8 off but on a 90+ string I can handle that. Are you using Brownell or bcy. Reason I'm asking is I have gained more when serving on fury then I have bcy x.


 I'm using X. I understand about the differents lengths. Single cams can be costly. Making strings is technical fun. Words like frustrated I understand. I throw it all away. Now we are getting somewhere with this thread, Honesty. I like all the Thread Heads here so please never take me the wrong way. In the beginning string building sounded like a piece of cake, a walk in the park,if you will. The formula looked easy to follow. So I gave it a shot. Nothing worked out. Then came the posts. Everyone having problems. It sounds so easy in the beginning. I'm a technical person and I don't give up. I WILL FIX THIS. It my take time but it will happen. Here is what I'm working on now. Rate of twists, how many and how much does it shorten at what poundage. And golf tees, have you noticed how high the string lifts up when twisting? Then they put in your head how many twists before removing the tees. I'm going to try finishing nails, of coarse polish them first, they are thinner and they should keep the rate of twist consistent . More even twists before pulling the nails. Once it find out what each twist equals in inches I'll apply it to the number of twists as a revision. Then what I want to see if the end result comes out shorter not much 1/2to 1 twist is all I'll tolerate. I prefer dead on. But to take one out should not make it bulge and ropey. There are no set rules. It's what works. A free for all. I'm going to get to work now. I'm not going to publish anything until I get consistency. It's going to take awhile. I figure 10 strings should do it. And it wll only be for X material. I'm going to get started. Thanks for the interest. People can make strings but to make them perfect is another story. O by the way HUNTINSKER IS A BEAR FAN. He should know about the serving.


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## Huntinsker

olliedog said:


> I haven't checked in to this thread in awhile but glad its still going strong. I've got a question regarding serving separation. Built my first set a few months back for my hunting buddies bear attitude. Everything went really well I'd say for the first go. We were shooting over the holiday weekend and I asked to look it over to see how it was holding up. Immediately spotted serving separation on the cable where it goes over the adjustable mod. The radius on that mod looks pretty small but I can't deny that the old cable lived a hard life but it didn't show separation there. Wear yes, separation no. So, am I right to assume that I need more tension on the serving jig? I figured I was serving tight but seems like the data tells me I wasn't. Cheers, Chris.





olliedog said:


> Thanks Bryan. I think you're correct. I'll check the old cable tomorrow but I do remember clear or milky white. Maybe a thicker serving is all that's needed.





bryanroberts said:


> I don't know if thicker is better or maybe powergrip would do good? I would measure that serving that's on there and see what size it is. whatever it is its tuff.. I don't want to say gummy but it's different. someone on here will know. I know I saw one and in that spot it was flattened and looked like it was peeling not just a thread separating. .


On some of the earlier sets of strings/cables for the Attitudes and Authorities, Bear used (I think) BCY serving saver as the serving for the cable. It's a flat, white product that will turn clear when served and white with some wear and is very "stringy" when it begins to wear. They used it because they could lay down several layers on top of each other so that when one layer was worn through, there was another to take its place. It wasn't really that good of stuff but it was cheap and served the purpose that they needed. They've since stopped using it for whatever reason and now it looks like they are using Halo on the cable again. 

As far as serving separation, depending on the DL module setting, the radius can be pretty sharp on the Attitude. You may need more tension on your serving jig but it's hard to say. Separation can be caused by several things including having the finished served diameter of the cable be too large. It certainly couldn't hurt to make a new cable, clamp it down well so it doesn't rotate and then serve it nice and tight. If your diameter was a little large, that'll help get it smaller and the serving would lay tighter together. Those together will hopefully stop the separation issues.


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## olliedog

Thanks Huntinsker!


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## caspian

just got some 30lb in in black and red that I will be using tomorrow to do a cable set for a Bowtech Fanatic and a Carbon Matrix. the owner is supplying Trophy for me to use and wants 24 strand cables, and from prior experience 40lb Spectra is just marginally too large to fit the tracks comfortably at that strand count.

I've also had to give up using Spectra line for centre servings.... a couple of people running d-loops tied directly onto the string (no nocksets) had problems with them slipping, the serving is just too slick. I've gone back to Diamondback for centres.


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## skynight

Binary cam man said:


> I'm using X. I understand about the differents lengths. Single cams can be costly. Making strings is technical fun. Words like frustrated I understand. I throw it all away. Now we are getting somewhere with this thread, Honesty. I like all the Thread Heads here so please never take me the wrong way. In the beginning string building sounded like a piece of cake, a walk in the park,if you will. The formula looked easy to follow. So I gave it a shot. Nothing worked out. Then came the posts. Everyone having problems. It sounds so easy in the beginning. I'm a technical person and I don't give up. I WILL FIX THIS. It my take time but it will happen. Here is what I'm working on now. Rate of twists, how many and how much does it shorten at what poundage. And golf tees, have you noticed how high the string lifts up when twisting? Then they put in your head how many twists before removing the tees. I'm going to try finishing nails, of coarse polish them first, they are thinner and they should keep the rate of twist consistent . More even twists before pulling the nails. Once it find out what each twist equals in inches I'll apply it to the number of twists as a revision. Then what I want to see if the end result comes out shorter not much 1/2to 1 twist is all I'll tolerate. I prefer dead on. But to take one out should not make it bulge and ropey. There are no set rules. It's what works. A free for all. I'm going to get to work now. I'm not going to publish anything until I get consistency. It's going to take awhile. I figure 10 strings should do it. And it wll only be for X material. I'm going to get started. Thanks for the interest. People can make strings but to make them perfect is another story. O by the way HUNTINSKER IS A BEAR FAN. He should know about the serving.


I was having trouble getting my finished lengths to be predictable when I started as well. I use a little Jon jig. What was happening was the tensioning post was moving as I wrapped the material. This also contributed to uneven strand tensions, as the post moved the strands were shorter. I whined about it and was pointed to the wood block trick somewhere in this thread. By blocking the tensioning post with a peice of wood from being able to move the lengths became predictable. I only use X, but 1.01 times finished length for initial post setting works out to within 1/32 most times. I use finished length divided by 1.5 for twists. I also do not use the tag end method but serve the end loops on the 3 post jig.


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## Binary cam man

skynight said:


> I was having trouble getting my finished lengths to be predictable when I started as well. I use a little Jon jig. What was happening was the tensioning post was moving as I wrapped the material. This also contributed to uneven strand tensions, as the post moved the strands were shorter. I whined about it and was pointed to the wood block trick somewhere in this thread. By blocking the tensioning post with a peice of wood from being able to move the lengths became predictable. I only use X, but 1.01 times finished length for initial post setting works out to within 1/32 most times. I use finished length divided by 1.5 for twists. I also do not use the tag end method but serve the end loops on the 3 post jig.


 O, so you flip it around to serve the other end. Me too. LOL. But when I lay out the strands, I use the non sprung stationary side. Initial post setting is perfect. As you read in my post I said I was going to get and I did. It's my first one, so I don't want to hammer it in stone. But so far so good.


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## Binary cam man

First test string. 61 5/16 Reduced to 61 1/8 initial post setting. 3/16 less. Served each end 25 inches. 50 inches total. Should be enough. Served at 350. While serving, the jig was making creeking sounds. I like to say it was talking. After I finished serving, I took a look at the jigs pound setting. It was now at 300. A 50 pound loss. But that's ok. Do not readjust. It was already stretched to 350 to begin with. At this point, I let it relax for 24 hours. Keep in mind this is BCYX material. Today I measured it at 100. PERFECT! 61 5/16. I have to try another one. And maybe a third. Then start all over using cable lengths. This is where it gets nuts. Each time you do a different length, you have to start off without the reduction, meaning make the cable to the initial post setting and serve. Then measure and find out what the reduction is. From here, start making reduction cables to see if it works. Hope this helps.


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## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> First test string. 61 5/16 Reduced to 61 1/8 initial post setting. 3/16 less. Served each end 25 inches. 50 inches total. Should be enough. Served at 350. While serving, the jig was making creeking sounds. I like to say it was talking. After I finished serving, I took a look at the jigs pound setting. It was now at 300. A 50 pound loss. But that's ok. Do not readjust. It was already stretched to 350 to begin with. At this point, I let it relax for 24 hours. Keep in mind this is BCYX material. Today I measured it at 100. PERFECT! 61 5/16. I have to try another one. And maybe a third. Then start all over using cable lengths. This is where it gets nuts. Each time you do a different length, you have to start off without the reduction, meaning make the cable to the initial post setting and serve. Then measure and find out what the reduction is. From here, start making reduction cables to see if it works. Hope this helps.


Good deal! I'm glad your figuring out what works you! It's a good feeling!


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> Good deal! I'm glad your figuring out what works you! It's a good feeling!


Thanks, it's going to take awhile .


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## deerbum

I finished stringing my 3rd and final bow which is an RPM. I was pretty happy how it turned out, in hind sight I would have went with the white serving. Had it timed and shooting nicely through paper in short order. Not bad for a rookie who hadn't even tied a peep until a month or so ago.


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## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> I finished stringing my 3rd and final bow which is an RPM. I was pretty happy how it turned out, in hind sight I would have went with the white serving. Had it timed and shooting nicely through paper in short order. Not bad for a rookie who hadn't even tied a peep until a month or so ago.


That's awesome!


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## bryanroberts

deerbum said:


> I finished stringing my 3rd and final bow which is an RPM. I was pretty happy how it turned out, in hind sight I would have went with the white serving. Had it timed and shooting nicely through paper in short order. Not bad for a rookie who hadn't even tied a peep until a month or so ago.


Good job! nice looking threads!


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## bryanroberts

Is everyone having to chase the pinstripe to keep the primary colors from eating the pin? I use golf tees but sometimes it seems like I'm having to chase more than others so I was just wondering if you were not having to chase at all or everytime or what?


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## Huntinsker

I chase it every time because I'm OCD and sometimes in certain places, it gets covered up a bit. it doesn't take much. Just the strand running behind the pinstripe is enough to bring it to the top. If you don't chase, you'll have areas where it isn't uniform and that bugs me.


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> I chase it every time because I'm OCD and sometimes in certain places, it gets covered up a bit. it doesn't take much. Just the strand running behind the pinstripe is enough to bring it to the top. If you don't chase, you'll have areas where it isn't uniform and that bugs me.


I usually use a piece of string material over both pins and chase them out. Sometimes it seems like if I don't get my golf tees out early enough then it will really eat it in the middle and require more chasing.


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## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> I usually use a piece of string material over both pins and chase them out. Sometimes it seems like if I don't get my golf tees out early enough then it will really eat it in the middle and require more chasing.


I take my tees out when I've put in half the twists. I still have to chase them a little. Just the cost of wanting it to look perfect I guess.


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> I take my tees out when I've put in half the twists. I still have to chase them a little. Just the cost of wanting it to look perfect I guess.


don't feel bad I have bowstring ocd too!


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## SteveB

I have been having an issue when doing a 2 color with dual pin - BCY X.
Fl green used as one of the 2 colors is ending up with "bumps" when relaxed - perfect under tension.
Not an issue when using Fl Gr without adding pins.
Recurve string with served ends.
I know it was covered here but with 97 pages hoping someone knows where or could help.
Thanks


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## deerbum

bryanroberts said:


> Is everyone having to chase the pinstripe to keep the primary colors from eating the pin? I use golf tees but sometimes it seems like I'm having to chase more than others so I was just wondering if you were not having to chase at all or everytime or what?


I chase mine and then assign top and bottom loops based on which way will cover the most mistakes. I'm still experimenting with the best way to weave the tags into the bundle to get all the colors oriented properly.


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> I usually use a piece of string material over both pins and chase them out. Sometimes it seems like if I don't get my golf tees out early enough then it will really eat it in the middle and require more chasing.[/QUOTE I noticed with the tees,the first twist in the middle the threads lift up high and crunch down in the middle. Put half the twists in and pull the tees. This would leave me with the ends looking ropey. When you pull the tees, the twists zip to the ends. Then when you put the rest of the twists in they kind of mix in with what's already there. So I tried 2 inch finishing nails. Took the point off them and polished them. I can leave then in longer and the twists look uniform. The nails are a lot thinner. Put a little wax oh them like you do with the tees. I know people don't like change. You know what I've been going threw. I'm changing my whole process hoping it get me to perfection. Haven't tried this with pins only solids as of yet. Still making test strings for my length problems. OCD lives on. Good luck.


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## bryanroberts

so you have had better results with smaller diameter spacers? I will have to give that a try. I will probably always chase because I'm crazy that way but I would love a more finished look right away.


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> so you have had better results with smaller diameter spacers? I will have to give that a try. I will probably always chase because I'm crazy that way but I would love a more finished look right away.


 OCD BOW STRING INC. has a catchy ring to it. LOL. I canned my first process. And I only make strings for me. I don't rush. The first process, layout,twist, stretch and serve. Length off add twists. Not any more. This will only be part of it haven't completed it yet. And it's going to take time to complete. I have to make test strings, a lot of them before I make a real one. No more garbage. I waisted a lot of material already. This is my new process. It may help. Apply formula. Lay out string. I serve my loops. Stretch at 100 watching it to see if it drops. If it does I bump it back to 100. When I know it holds at 100, I tell myself the strands are equalized. I don't let the pressure off. Important . Then I put the nails in. This part I'll bet you never done? Put 1 complete twist in. This is when I start marking on my black board so I don't lose count. I go and take a look at that twist to make sure it's about centered and laying square together. I'll put in another one and take a look just because I can. Then I'll go to 5,mark it on the board so I don't lose count. Take a look. I do this till I get all the twists in. How's that for OCD? LOL. What really happening is the pressure on the string is going up and your giving the twists time to equalize before you put more in. If I do it too fast they want to go on top of each other. Then it looks like loose strands and ropey. I learned to go slow because the pressure is going up with every twist. When I get all the twists in,I check the pounds on the jig and bump it up to 350 very slowly. I don't do anything fast. I fought off the buldges once and I don't want them back. Now at 350, I watch it. It will drop a little. Keep bumping it till it holds. When it holds the bundles are equillized. I then leave it for 2hours or more. I can't help myself, and I check it in that 2 hour waiting time too. Your not kidding OCD!after this it's time to relax. Slowly release the pressure. I'm not kidding slowly. About a1/4 of a turn at a time and stop a few seconds in between till you get it relaxed. I let it relax on the jig at lease 12 hours or better. Never put a paper clip in it and hang it on the jig. It will twist like the figure 8.if I have to take it off the jig I put 2 bolts 1 in each loop and lay it down strait on something flat. The rest is another story. OCD BOW STRINGS INC. I'm starting to like that name. LOL. Hope this helps. It was like night and day for me. Once I get the length down to a science, I'll be good to go.


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## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> OCD BOW STRING INC. has a catchy ring to it. LOL. I canned my first process. And I only make strings for me. I don't rush. The first process, layout,twist, stretch and serve. Length off add twists. Not any more. This will only be part of it haven't completed it yet. And it's going to take time to complete. I have to make test strings, a lot of them before I make a real one. No more garbage. I waisted a lot of material already. This is my new process. It may help. Apply formula. Lay out string. I serve my loops. Stretch at 100 watching it to see if it drops. If it does I bump it back to 100. When I know it holds at 100, I tell myself the strands are equalized. I don't let the pressure off. Important . Then I put the nails in. This part I'll bet you never done? Put 1 complete twist in. This is when I start marking on my black board so I don't lose count. I go and take a look at that twist to make sure it's about centered and laying square together. I'll put in another one and take a look just because I can. Then I'll go to 5,mark it on the board so I don't lose count. Take a look. I do this till I get all the twists in. How's that for OCD? LOL. What really happening is the pressure on the string is going up and your giving the twists time to equalize before you put more in. If I do it too fast they want to go on top of each other. Then it looks like loose strands and ropey. I learned to go slow because the pressure is going up with every twist. When I get all the twists in,I check the pounds on the jig and bump it up to 350 very slowly. I don't do anything fast. I fought off the buldges once and I don't want them back. Now at 350, I watch it. It will drop a little. Keep bumping it till it holds. When it holds the bundles are equillized. I then leave it for 2hours or more. I can't help myself, and I check it in that 2 hour waiting time too. Your not kidding OCD!after this it's time to relax. Slowly release the pressure. I'm not kidding slowly. About a1/4 of a turn at a time and stop a few seconds in between till you get it relaxed. I let it relax on the jig at lease 12 hours or better. Never put a paper clip in it and hang it on the jig. It will twist like the figure 8.if I have to take it off the jig I put 2 bolts 1 in each loop and lay it down strait on something flat. The rest is another story. OCD BOW STRINGS INC. I'm starting to like that name. LOL. Hope this helps. It was like night and day for me. Once I get the length down to a science, I'll be good to go.


I must say I respect your dedication. I don't know if I could be that patient. After I layout and tag end I crank it up to 100 pounds and twist. Once I get my twists in I crank up to 300 lbs. I read on bcy and brownell website where they say 300 pounds is what they recommend. Some go alot more. my string sometimes looks ropey on the ends but when I burnish it takes all that out. Now because I only build for myself or a few family/friends I have time and leave my string on at tension till morning. Then I take it off and let it relax by pinning two loops together with a hair Bobby pin for sometimes 24 hrs. Now back on the jig to 100 and check measurement and make any adjustments. crank to 300 and serve. Take it off let it rest couple hrs. tension to 100 and check measurements. Adjust and tie off the ends and I'm done. So there is some ocd there just not as much!


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> I must say I respect your dedication. I don't know if I could be that patient. After I layout and tag end I crank it up to 100 pounds and twist. Once I get my twists in I crank up to 300 lbs. I read on bcy and brownell website where they say 300 pounds is what they recommend. Some go alot more. my string sometimes looks ropey on the ends but when I burnish it takes all that out. Now because I only build for myself or a few family/friends I have time and leave my string on at tension till morning. Then I take it off and let it relax by pinning two loops together with a hair Bobby pin for sometimes 24 hrs. Now back on the jig to 100 and check measurement and make any adjustments. crank to 300 and serve. Take it off let it rest couple hrs. tension to 100 and check measurements. Adjust and tie off the ends and I'm done. So there is some ocd there just not as much!


Ok, you caught me. I did not write about burnishing yet. I do very little of this. It is fun to burnish. I use to look forward to doing it. Not any more. It can and does cause problems. I had to eliminate the problems. BURNISHING brings up the fibers in the string. Say the fibers are laid out from left to right, once you go around the posts, one side changes direction. You can't avoid bringing out the fibers. It's like wearing the string before you put it on. IMO. I don't burnish to remove wax. When I serve the wax comes through anyway. Why to bring up the fibers and cause bumps? Weak spots in the string. I've looked at this very closely,with a 10 power eye loop. That's all you need. I can see it. I fixed all these problems. Why bring them back. I have a pile of useless waisted material because of this. It put my string building on hold. For you it may be hard to change. It all depends on what stage of OCD you have. LOL. Being consistent creates the same quality over and over. Think about that. If your build has bumps, your next build will have bumps. Back to BURNISHING, after serving and the relax and the measuring and hopefully dead on B's at 100, I'll take some wax and put it on the exposed strands and burnish very lightly. Watching the strands come together. I use cotton string my wife gets for me at the crafts store. Remember very lightly. Try not to bring up the fibers. I don't. Now is the time to take pictures. When you release the pressure and take it off the jig it's going to loosen up the strands anyway. So why burnish, to bring up the fibers? Or for pictures? The other option is don't burnish,put on bow, wax and burnish lightly then take pictures. I like this one.


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## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Ok, you caught me. I did not write about burnishing yet. I do very little of this. It is fun to burnish. I use to look forward to doing it. Not any more. It can and does cause problems. I had to eliminate the problems. BURNISHING brings up the fibers in the string. Say the fibers are laid out from left to right, once you go around the posts, one side changes direction. You can't avoid bringing out the fibers. It's like wearing the string before you put it on. IMO. I don't burnish to remove wax. When I serve the wax comes through anyway. Why to bring up the fibers and cause bumps? Weak spots in the string. I've looked at this very closely,with a 10 power eye loop. That's all you need. I can see it. I fixed all these problems. Why bring them back. I have a pile of useless waisted material because of this. It put my string building on hold. For you it may be hard to change. It all depends on what stage of OCD you have. LOL. Being consistent creates the same quality over and over. Think about that. If your build has bumps, your next build will have bumps. Back to BURNISHING, after serving and the relax and the measuring and hopefully dead on B's at 100, I'll take some wax and put it on the exposed strands and burnish very lightly. Watching the strands come together. I use cotton string my wife gets for me at the crafts store. Remember very lightly. Try not to bring up the fibers. I don't. Now is the time to take pictures. When you release the pressure and take it off the jig it's going to loosen up the strands anyway. So why burnish, to bring up the fibers? Or for pictures? The other option is don't burnish,put on bow, wax and burnish lightly then take pictures. I like this one.


If you burnish and it wears the string before you put it on the bow, you've done too much and probably too aggressively. Also if you don't "dewax", the excess wax that is inside the bundle can cause serving separation because it basically lubricates the bundle allowing it to slide as it goes over radii in the cam loops. If you don't want to do it to the entire string, I'd recommend burnishing/dewaxing at least the parts you're going to serve.


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## Binary cam man

Binary cam man said:


> OCD BOW STRING INC. has a catchy ring to it. LOL. I canned my first process. And I only make strings for me. I don't rush. The first process, layout,twist, stretch and serve. Length off add twists. Not any more. This will only be part of it haven't completed it yet. And it's going to take time to complete. I have to make test strings, a lot of them before I make a real one. No more garbage. I waisted a lot of material already. This is my new process. It may help. Apply formula. Lay out string. I serve my loops. Stretch at 100 watching it to see if it drops. If it does I bump it back to 100. When I know it holds at 100, I tell myself the strands are equalized. I don't let the pressure off. Important . Then I put the nails in. This part I'll bet you never done? Put 1 complete twist in. This is when I start marking on my black board so I don't lose count. I go and take a look at that twist to make sure it's about centered and laying square together. I'll put in another one and take a look just because I can. Then I'll go to 5,mark it on the board so I don't lose count. Take a look. I do this till I get all the twists in. How's that for OCD? LOL. What really happening is the pressure on the string is going up and your giving the twists time to equalize before you put more in. If I do it too fast they want to go on top of each other. Then it looks like loose strands and ropey. I learned to go slow because the pressure is going up with every twist. When I get all the twists in,I check the pounds on the jig and bump it up to 350 very slowly. I don't do anything fast. I fought off the buldges once and I don't want them back. Now at 350, I watch it. It will drop a little. Keep bumping it till it holds. When it holds the bundles are equillized. I then leave it for 2hours or more. I can't help myself, and I check it in that 2 hour waiting time too. Your not kidding OCD!after this it's time to relax. Slowly release the pressure. I'm not kidding slowly. About a1/4 of a turn at a time and stop a few seconds in between till you get it relaxed. I let it relax on the jig at lease 12 hours or better. Never put a paper clip in it and hang it on the jig. It will twist like the figure 8.if I have to take it off the jig I put 2 bolts 1 in each loop and lay it down strait on something flat. The rest is another story. OCD BOW STRINGS INC. I'm starting to like that name. LOL. Hope this helps. It was like night and day for me. Once I get the length down to a science, I'll be good to go.


 first off I'm on vacation this week. And I am multitasking and trying to get my test strings done. I have to write a revision to the string twisting I left out. When putting in the twists,watch the pounds.keep adjusting the spring tension as you go along so it stays at 100. This keeps the tension on the twists all at the same rate. And your pins should not drop in or go off line.once they drop in they make a grove an settle in. Now it's hard to change.they like to fall back into the groove. Sorry I forgot this. Hope this helps. Now back to my test string making .


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## retrieverfishin

Agree with above. What you burnish with makes a difference as well. I use a scrap piece of string material and give it one, sometimes two swipes and call it good. It is important to do this before serving over the area though. Unless you want to make it more likely to have serving separation.


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> If you burnish and it wears the string before you put it on the bow, you've done too much and probably too aggressively. Also if you don't "dewax", the excess wax that is inside the bundle can cause serving separation because it basically lubricates the bundle allowing it to slide as it goes over radii in the cam loops. If you don't want to do it to the entire string, I'd recommend burnishing/dewaxing at least the parts you're going to serve.


when I use to burnish, I never got a large amount of wax. Only if I burnished very tightly. Then I was left with bulges. Weak spots. I think under the serving can cause problems also. When I serve, and only by hand,I serve very tightly. As the serving material is embedding itself into the string material massive amounts of wax is coming out on to the serving tool. Looks like the same as when I burnish. I serve by hand because the serving on the spool is not consistent. I can feel it and make adjustments to keep my happy spot. Amount of pressure. This is IMO. every body has their process and I've used bits and pieces from them also. I've been doing this for many months now. With poor results.I feel confident in my process,but if I do get serving separation, I will make a revision and correct it. Right now I'm making test strings to correct my length problems. Don't like adding twists at the end. I an making progress. Made a 61 incher perfect the other day. Now I'm doing it again. The same to see if I'm consistent. And I'll do a third one just to make sure. Then I'll start with cable sizes. And then single cam sizes. I will waist a lot of string material but at least I have Chinese fishing line to use as serving. By the way bcy says Chinese fishing line is not serving material. This is just my opinion , please don't be offended. I've been on a rough road for many months. I will get my process perfected. And I will make perfect strings. And when I do I will smile, you can count on that.


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## Binary cam man

There are a lot of people who are afraid to offend others, so they don't speak up. You are not judging, you are expressing your opinion . Let's here the problem and the fixes. And as always,the pictures of the great strings we all can build. Thank You.


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## caspian

retrieverfishin said:


> Agree with above. What you burnish with makes a difference as well. I use a scrap piece of string material and give it one, sometimes two swipes and call it good. It is important to do this before serving over the area though. Unless you want to make it more likely to have serving separation.


I bought some larger diameter, quite soft, twisted nylon twine from my hardware store. it seems to burnish very well for me. no tearing and it's pleasant to hold on the fingers while working. I got black and haven't had any issues with colour bleed either, even on a set of neon yellow 452X strings I did yesterday.

I won't mention the brand because I'm in a different country to most people here, but it's about 3/32" diameter at rest, two ply twisted nylon, and melts easily on a lighter. very soft and limp to the touch, not a still polyester blend.


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## bryanroberts

I found when burnishing, with string material, that it was very important to go from tag end to tag end. If I stopped in the middle I would get the bump everyone has talked about. This only happened to me one time. I pulled the string very tight and it happened on fury. I haven't seen it on any other material but I also haven't stopped without going from end to end. These are just my findings so far..


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## Binary cam man

Put afew twists in to get length. See what happens. Put afew twists in to correct timing on the bow. See what happens. Finished my second test string today. Perfect. This time I tried it on my bow. Perfect, dead on timing. No need for twists. But it's only a test string. Has to come off and go to where all the other test strings go. Going to start another one today in the same lenght category. Have to make sure, l don't want to go through this again. This is also a good way to test how huch pressure your serving will take. The Chinese 20 pound will take a lot. 4 braid. But I snapped it 3 times. Then I tested halo .007 at just about the same pressure,did not break. I will continue to use the Chinese line on my test strings.


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## BWBOW

Think I found a good match for camo riser with black limbs
Kiwi and tan control and buss with black serving. String is same but red pin with red peep and sleeves


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## Huntinsker

BWBOW said:


> Think I found a good match for camo riser with black limbs
> Kiwi and tan control and buss with black serving. String is same but red pin with red peep and sleeves


Looks pretty good. I see you twisted your cables opposite directions. I did that on the first set I ever made just to see how I'd like it and what direction I'd like to twist while building but I didn't really like the look on the bow having them opposite like that. You also have to keep track and serve in opposite directions which if you forget, can be a problem.


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## Binary cam man

Yesterday, while I had a test string in the stretcher, I invited a friend over to help me do a test. I put a test string I made prior on my destroyer and installed a peep. We took it and preceded to tear up my bull dog target. I shot first. The first 23 shots I had peep rotation to the left. Kept twisting it straight. Then it settled in nice. No more peep rotation. I logged all this info as we went along. I don't expect not to have peep rotation . The string has to settle in. But in only 23 shots, I'm happy with that. I've had worse with strings made by others. Now the fun begins. The next 177 shots. That why I needed my friend. To get this test done. And we shot with proper form. He watched me and I watched him. This is very important . This test was for serving separation, stretch coiling,serving wear and wax seepage. This string was not burnished. So we shot. This is my data. None of the above happened. The serving did not show signs of wear after 200 shots with proper form. It was a very hot day, and when I felt the serving it did feel a little waxy. I think this is normal. O just in case, why should we shoot with bad form, we practice to have good form. If our backs could have taken more we would have went on. I will test more with this string. If I can get to the 2000 shot mark before anything happens, that's good enough for me. The reason for this is I'm starting over. I took a lot for granted when I first started. It didn't pan out. Now I test everything. My process with this home made jig will be perfect. FOR ME. Test don't guess. If you waist material, waist it to learn. Wow this thread came along way 97. This will be a legion.


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## Binary cam man

I have to ask a question. Scorpion Venom has serving lube on the market. Can anybody tell me about this? Please and Thank You.


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## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> Yesterday, while I had a test string in the stretcher, I invited a friend over to help me do a test. I put a test string I made prior on my destroyer and installed a peep. We took it and preceded to tear up my bull dog target. I shot first. The first 23 shots I had peep rotation to the left. Kept twisting it straight. Then it settled in nice. No more peep rotation. I logged all this info as we went along. I don't expect not to have peep rotation . The string has to settle in. But in only 23 shots, I'm happy with that. I've had worse with strings made by others. Now the fun begins. The next 177 shots. That why I needed my friend. To get this test done. And we shot with proper form. He watched me and I watched him. This is very important . This test was for serving separation, stretch coiling,serving wear and wax seepage. This string was not burnished. So we shot. This is my data. None of the above happened. The serving did not show signs of wear after 200 shots with proper form. It was a very hot day, and when I felt the serving it did feel a little waxy. I think this is normal. O just in case, why should we shoot with bad form, we practice to have good form. If our backs could have taken more we would have went on. I will test more with this string. If I can get to the 2000 shot mark before anything happens, that's good enough for me. The reason for this is I'm starting over. I took a lot for granted when I first started. It didn't pan out. Now I test everything. My process with this home made jig will be perfect. FOR ME. Test don't guess. If you waist material, waist it to learn. Wow this thread came along way 97. This will be a legion.


Good job on your strings. I'm glad you had great results.. I usually shoot my string 20 to 30 times then I install my peep but that's just my way. It works for me


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## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> I have to ask a question. Scorpion Venom has serving lube on the market. Can anybody tell me about this? Please and Thank You.


I've never used it personally but alot of the guys at the shop I go to have and they love the liquid bow string wax and cleaner but said the serving lube gets tacky even if you wipe it off and attracts dirt and dust to the serving area where it's at. This is not from personal experience just "shop talk"...


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> I've never used it personally but alot of the guys at the shop I go to have and they love the liquid bow string wax and cleaner but said the serving lube gets tacky even if you wipe it off and attracts dirt and dust to the serving area where it's at. This is not from personal experience just "shop talk"...


I'm definitely making progress. And thanks for the praise. I know about shooting in the string before putting in the peep. But if I didn't do this I would know what happens if you do. I've done it both ways. Always got peep rotation but it always stabilized. This allows one less trip to the press. The reason the question about the serving lube is , the talk about dewaxing and serving separation. This stuff is a slippery liquid that penetrates the serving material and must get to the string material also. Is this good? I know you don't use this. Anyway that's the reason I put it out there.


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## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> I'm definitely making progress. And thanks for the praise. I know about shooting in the string before putting in the peep. But if I didn't do this I would know what happens if you do. I've done it both ways. Always got peep rotation but it always stabilized. This allows one less trip to the press. The reason the question about the serving lube is , the talk about dewaxing and serving separation. This stuff is a slippery liquid that penetrates the serving material and must get to the string material also. Is this good? I know you don't use this. Anyway that's the reason I put it out there.


someone who has used it might chime in but I never tried it for myself because of others opinion. Maybe I should try it on a test string but I definetly don't want to mess up a good string if it is tacky and a dirt collector. I have heard great things about their liquid string wax and their string cleaner is supposed to be some of the best.. As for peep rotation everyone that builds or puts a new string on will have rotation in the very beginning but when it stabilizes and then doesn't move you've got it!! So you have done a good job


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## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> someone who has used it might chime in but I never tried it for myself because of others opinion. Maybe I should try it on a test string but I definetly don't want to mess up a good string if it is tacky and a dirt collector. I have heard great things about their liquid string wax and their string cleaner is supposed to be some of the best.. As for peep rotation everyone that builds or puts a new string on will have rotation in the very beginning but when it stabilizes and then doesn't move you've got it!! So you have done a good job


. I agree, but don't try it on a perfect string. I wrote this because of the dewaxing issue. And to make a point. There is a liquid lubricant for serving material. And it penetrates the serving and the bundle.if it destroys the string I'm sure somebody would know by now. Actually I'm dealing with the dewaxing issue. Evereytime someone says something I take it into consideration. But I don't hammer it into stone. I'll test the theory. Yesterday 200 arrows, no dewaxing, no serving separation. I wish I could have put another 200 threw it today. But I was too busy. I will get to this and soon. I need this data for my process. Everybody has their own. You know. I'm not putting anybody down. I feel like in dealing with myths. That's why I'm testing everything. Both sides of it. When I go to the jig I need to be confident. No maybes. I never thought I'd be writing this stuff here because in the beginning string making seemed so simply. And I have different ways of doing thing now. Seems to be more technical now. Test don't guess.


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## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> . I agree, but don't try it on a perfect string. I wrote this because of the dewaxing issue. And to make a point. There is a liquid lubricant for serving material. And it penetrates the serving and the bundle.if it destroys the string I'm sure somebody would know by now. Actually I'm dealing with the dewaxing issue. Evereytime someone says something I take it into consideration. But I don't hammer it into stone. I'll test the theory. Yesterday 200 arrows, no dewaxing, no serving separation. I wish I could have put another 200 threw it today. But I was too busy. I will get to this and soon. I need this data for my process. Everybody has their own. You know. I'm not putting anybody down. I feel like in dealing with myths. That's why I'm testing everything. Both sides of it. When I go to the jig I need to be confident. No maybes. I never thought I'd be writing this stuff here because in the beginning string making seemed so simply. And I have different ways of doing thing now. Seems to be more technical now. Test don't guess.


Historically builders have noticed that serving will separate more if you do not remove the wax from the string underneath where you're serving. It would be really hard to dispute the decades of observation and the millions of strings made that way. There are a couple reasons why it can cause separation. The most obvious reason is that the wax will act as a lubricant and allow the serving to slip on the string beneath it. A less commonly thought of reason is that when you remove wax, you also reduce the bundle size. If you do not remove the wax before serving, you will serve the string at one diameter and then when the wax gets squeezed out over time, the string bundle will get smaller leaving the serving looser than when you first applied it. Couple that with the lubrication that the wax supplies and you'll get serving separation. 

As for the Scorpion Venom Cam and Serving Lube, that is designed to reduce friction between the serving and the cam. They don't care what it does to the serving and the string. You're not supposed to use a lot of it so it should not be enough to absorb into the serving to cause separation. I've never needed nor have I known anyone who has needed to use such a product. I don't see how lubricating the cam/serving could benefit in any way. I also think it would do nothing but gather dirt and grime which can be bad for serving anyway. 

I'm of the mind that just because a product exists on the market does not mean it's a good idea to use it. I could make a knife designed specifically to stab yourself in the arm but that doesn't mean that stabbing yourself is a good idea. :wink:


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Historically builders have noticed that serving will separate more if you do not remove the wax from the string underneath where you're serving. It would be really hard to dispute the decades of observation and the millions of strings made that way. There are a couple reasons why it can cause separation. The most obvious reason is that the wax will act as a lubricant and allow the serving to slip on the string beneath it. A less commonly thought of reason is that when you remove wax, you also reduce the bundle size. If you do not remove the wax before serving, you will serve the string at one diameter and then when the wax gets squeezed out over time, the string bundle will get smaller leaving the serving looser than when you first applied it. Couple that with the lubrication that the wax supplies and you'll get serving separation.
> 
> As for the Scorpion Venom Cam and Serving Lube, that is designed to reduce friction between the serving and the cam. They don't care what it does to the serving and the string. You're not supposed to use a lot of it so it should not be enough to absorb into the serving to cause separation. I've never needed nor have I known anyone who has needed to use such a product. I don't see how lubricating the cam/serving could benefit in any way. I also think it would do nothing but gather dirt and grime which can be bad for serving anyway.
> 
> I'm of the mind that just because a product exists on the market does not mean it's a good idea to use it. I could make a knife designed specifically to stab yourself in the arm but that doesn't mean that stabbing yourself is a good idea. :wink:


Wink LOL HISTORICALLY? Sounds like things could have been different at one time. Let's get real. I'm running tests on this right now. Put a string on a bow yesterday that was not dewaxed. A friend and I shot 200 arrows as a test. No serving separation. We are not finished. We will do it again. I'm sure when we get to 1000 we should see something. What is acceptable? 2000 to 2500 or more? Why do you change a string? And how much should you get out of it? Not you in general. Also we make sure we are using proper form while doing the test. Dewax, one swipe and all wax gone. I don't think so because when I serve I still get wax on the serving tool. Next test dewax very tightly and more than one swipe. Same result wax on serving tool. Next test serve without dewaxing more wax on serving tool. I serve very tight. The serving embeds itself into the string material. I know this because I had serving break while serving. So I took it all out and had a look. It was imbedded pretty deep that I didn't want to serve it again so I scraped it and started over. This imbedding and the wax coming out any way should be enough to hold it. I've also watched wile I serve. As I serve toward the post I can see the bundle tightening. That means the wax is coming out in front of the serving material. Not behind it. So I am also removing wax. Maybe those stretch bulges can cause serving separation? I really don't want to find out. Then it will be more work. Besides I had them already from guess what? Tried everything to get rid of them. Sometimes I'd get them sometimes I don't. Now I don't get them. I'm building this process for me. I'm not trying to change anyone. And it works well for me. Still in testing stag, but still going positive compared to when I started. I wasn't going to write about my process but I like it here, so I said what the heck.


----------



## Huntinsker

Good talk. Good luck with your process.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Good talk. Good luck with your process.


Thanks, and the reason for the serving tests was you. You sent me a red flag. I wasn't going to run these tests.and have you tried this ? Plus after say 2000 shots it would be time to think about replacing a string. Or what do you think? Reason for asking is what is normal life expectancy of strings. Please and Thank You.


----------



## Huntinsker

If I only got 2000 shots out of a string and I had taken good care of it, I'd be pretty disappointed in that string set. How long a string lasts depends on how much you shoot and how well you take care of it. For me, if it starts to look bad or I get tired of the color, then I'll change it. I suppose if the quality of the string was such that you start to notice your tune change or you start to get peep rotation or serving separation then you may want to change it. I haven't had that problem since I started building my own.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> If I only got 2000 shots out of a string and I had taken good care of it, I'd be pretty disappointed in that string set. How long a string lasts depends on how much you shoot and how well you take care of it. For me, if it starts to look bad or I get tired of the color, then I'll change it. I suppose if the quality of the string was such that you start to notice your tune change or you start to get peep rotation or serving separation then you may want to change it. I haven't had that problem since I started building my own.


. With the bowtechs you start to see marks right away on the cables from the string stops and the adj. mods. Thanks.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> . With the bowtechs you start to see marks right away on the cables from the string stops and the adj. mods. Thanks.


You may see some marks but they shouldn't start to separate or cut the serving. I have friends with ODB bowtechs that I've made strings for that are going on a couple years with them and they are holding up well.


----------



## deerbum

I used the 100# Chinese Spectra for 2 center servings and won't use it again. It's just too slick for d loops and had some separation when I spun the loop to adjust. I've read others advising not to use it for center serving and turns out they were right:embara:. On the bright side- I now have some extra line for rigging bank poles:cheers:.


----------



## Binary cam man

BCY said Chinese fishing line is not serving material.


----------



## bryanroberts

Something I'm sure has been discussed in this thread earlier that I noticed today. I made a mistake and forgot to install a piece of scrap material for the peep on a string I made. When I got it marked where he wanted it and put it in the press I was suprised at how the fury seperated. I will definetly not forget the string again as it's not the best material to separate. If you haven't done it yet it's not like 452x or a similar material where you have 24 seperated strands to pic k through. It's hard to explain but just make sure to install the string and all will be fine! Once I got it tied in and off the press everything looked great. I really love Fury!


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> BCY said Chinese fishing line is not serving material.


Of course they'd say that haha. 

In all seriousness, the way fishing line is treated, the super slick texture of the stuff may not work as well in all applications as some of the commercial serving materials. To simply say that it's not serving is maybe a little too black and white though as I'm sure it will work through cable slides and roller guards as well as idler wheels and string stops.


----------



## shinobi3

My friend is going out west for a elk hunt so I am making him a set


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> My friend is going out west for a elk hunt so I am making him a set


sweet!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Luke, great job!! Here is the bronze n flo green that looks amazing together. Its on my new xcentric 7 as of yesterday


----------



## 2X_LUNG

And here's the flo orange and bronze thats going on my new htr no cam!


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Luke, great job!! Here is the bronze n flo green that looks amazing together. Its on my new xcentric 7 as of yesterday


Looks sweet! I've heard from several people that the cable guide on the Xpedition bows is hard on cables especially those made with Fury. You may want to serve that area with some super small stuff like I do for the Bear hinge guard just in case.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I haven't had a single issue yet. If you make the cables too thick, issues arise. They show zero wear after quite a few shots


----------



## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> I haven't had a single issue yet. If you make the cables too thick, issues arise. They show zero wear after quite a few shots


Good deal. I was a little hesitant to put too much weight what they were saying because they also had a little "anti-Brownell" sound to their posts. They did offer up that information on a thread comparing Fury to X material and I'm sure you know how that goes.


----------



## Binary cam man

Interesting, this is a quote from BCY. HMPE from China is not Spectra or Dyneema. There are only 2 producers of spectra and Dyneema. Only 1 Japanese manufacturer is licensed to produce a Dyneema product. Interesting!


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Interesting, this is a quote from BCY. HMPE from China is not Spectra or Dyneema. There are only 2 producers of spectra and Dyneema. Only 1 Japanese manufacturer is licensed to produce a Dyneema product. Interesting!


Spectra and Dyneema are trademarked names for HMPE. No one can call their HMPE material Spectra or Dyneema except the companies that have trademarked those names, Honeywell and DSM. That's like if I brewed a lager very similar to Budweiser. I couldn't call it Budweiser because that name is trademarked but it would still be a lager very similar to Budweiser. 

In the same way I could brew a beer copying Budweiser, I could also make HMPE fiber that copies Spectra and Dyneema. I just can't call it that because those names are trademarked. There are a lot of manufacturers of HMPE and even UMWHMPE, they just don't call their materials Spectra and Dyneema.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Spectra and Dyneema are trademarked names for HMPE. No one can call their HMPE material Spectra or Dyneema except the companies that have trademarked those names, Honeywell and DSM. That's like if I brewed a lager very similar to Budweiser. I couldn't call it Budweiser because that name is trademarked but it would still be a lager very similar to Budweiser.
> 
> In the same way I could brew a beer copying Budweiser, I could also make HMPE fiber that copies Spectra and Dyneema. I just can't call it that because those names are trademarked. There are a lot of manufacturers of HMPE and even UMWHMPE, they just don't call their materials Spectra and Dyneema.


. I had a feeling BCY was trying to help us out. I spoke with them, and I think they are great. Here is what I was just doing. I went to aliexpress and piped in Japenese fishing line just to see. I found 4 and 8 strand spectra and Dyneema. And they say made from Dyneema. Interesting. Let me know when you get one of those BUDS ready, the knife un the arm I don't thing I'd like to try. LOL.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> . I had a feeling BCY was trying to help us out. I spoke with them, and I think they are great. Here is what I was just doing. I went to aliexpress and piped in Japenese fishing line just to see. I found 4 and 8 strand spectra and Dyneema. And they say made from Dyneema. Interesting. Let me know when you get one of those BUDS ready, the knife un the arm I don't thing I'd like to try. LOL.


Haha I could use a Bud right now. I like the guys from BCY and I like their products but I'm always a little jaded when listening to companies and their representatives when they are talking about products they sell compared to a potential competing product. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume that BCY wants to turn people away from the braided Chinese line because it's a much cheaper alternative to the products that they produce. It's been tested and seems to work pretty well in a lot of serving applications but it may not be as good in all applications. That's fine because not all servings are created equal and do not perform equally in all situations either. Really anything strand type of material can be used as string serving. It's just that some work better than others.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Haha I could use a Bud right now. I like the guys from BCY and I like their products but I'm always a little jaded when listening to companies and their representatives when they are talking about products they sell compared to a potential competing product. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume that BCY wants to turn people away from the braided Chinese line because it's a much cheaper alternative to the products that they produce. It's been tested and seems to work pretty well in a lot of serving applications but it may not be as good in all applications. That's fine because not all servings are created equal and do not perform equally in all situations either. Really anything strand type of material can be used as string serving. It's just that some work better than others.


. Deerbum found out. Put up another red flag for me.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker, you started this thread so congratulations on your 100 thread! Almost, it will be there soon. And THANKS VERY MUCH!


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Huntinsker, you started this thread so congratulations on your 100 thread! Almost, it will be there soon. And THANKS VERY MUCH!


Thanks! It's going strong. Just hope it's as helpful as I had hoped it would be when I made the first post. 

Thanks to everyone that contributes and makes this thread what it is! :cheers:


----------



## bryanroberts

It's been more than helpful. Hands on experience is the best way to learn but I wouldn't of even known where to start if it hadn't been for this thread. I would probably be embarrassed if I knew how many private messages and emails I have sent to Huntinsker and automan26. You guys have made it all possible and I appreciate everything more than you know!!!!!!


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## Binary cam man

Automan I didn't forget you. Congratulations on your 100 thread also. Almost. Your jig is a WINNER! And it's made in America. THANKS VERY MUCH.


----------



## automan26

Binary cam man said:


> Automan I didn't forget you. Congratulations on your 100 thread also. Almost. Your jig is a WINNER! And it's made in America. THANKS VERY MUCH.


Like many others on this thread, I owe Huntinsker a big thank you also. He got the thread rolling and he is watching over it carefully. I am a much better string builder now than I was before this thread got up and running. * ThanX Huntinsker!!!* More than once I have read where some poor soul on the General forum is looking for someone to build him some strings so I PM him a link to this thread hoping to get him as hooked as are all of you.

You mentioned that this jig is made in America, well it's even better than that;_ it's made by your hands_ in your garage or basement or where ever you do you work. 

Automan


----------



## bwhntr7973

Tagged.


----------



## lbb

OK guys, here's a goofball question, but I'm gonna ask. After building several sets of strings over the past few weeks, it didn't take long to realize that the material will cut like a knife, especially when you're putting some pressure on it such as dewaxing the bundles or burnishing the string.. A new friend that has offered guidance throughout the learning process stated that he would use duct tape. This works but it takes away the dexterity from my already fat fingers while working in the tight spots. Can any of you offer any other alternatives?


----------



## bryanroberts

lbb said:


> OK guys, here's a goofball question, but I'm gonna ask. After building several sets of strings over the past few weeks, it didn't take long to realize that the material will cut like a knife, especially when you're putting some pressure on it such as dewaxing the bundles or burnishing the string.. A new friend that has offered guidance throughout the learning process stated that he would use duct tape. This works but it takes away the dexterity from my already fat fingers while working in the tight spots. Can any of you offer any other alternatives?


I found out after I got sliced that liquid skin does a pretty good job. i only have a problem on my pinky finger when pulling tag ends but if I put a couple coats on then I don't get cut and I can bend my finger.


----------



## Huntinsker

lbb said:


> OK guys, here's a goofball question, but I'm gonna ask. After building several sets of strings over the past few weeks, it didn't take long to realize that the material will cut like a knife, especially when you're putting some pressure on it such as dewaxing the bundles or burnishing the string.. A new friend that has offered guidance throughout the learning process stated that he would use duct tape. This works but it takes away the dexterity from my already fat fingers while working in the tight spots. Can any of you offer any other alternatives?


On my hands, I get cut in 2 places. The outside edge of my pinky fingers between the 2nd and 3rd knuckle and the distal end of my index finger on the side facing my thumbs. The pinky is what gets cut the worst. What I do is take a roll of duct tape and tear off half of the width for about 10". Then starting from one end I fold up about 3/8" of tape onto itself. I fold that over 5 times so there is 10 layers in that spot. I put that thick spot on my finger where I usually get cut and use the rest to wrap around my finger and hold it in place. That give me the protection that I need but it doesn't build up too much tape that I can't still use my fingers. 

Unfortunately if you're going to wrap your fingers with anything, you're going to lose some of the fine function of those digits. I've thought about cutting up an old pair of leather gloves to that just those places are covered but I want something disposable so I don't get a wax buildup on the gloves and discolor my tag ends going from string to string.


----------



## Decker

Nice explanation. Thank you.


----------



## bryanroberts

There is the stuff that we called green tape. it's not sticky at all but sticks to itself. It comes in a spool that is basically like a roll of electric tape. We used it at a plant I worked at to cover cuts or spots that wore on your skin. It would be perfect for string building if anyone knows the real name of it. I will look on the net to see if I can find it.


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## bryanroberts

bryanroberts said:


> There is the stuff that we called green tape. it's not sticky at all but sticks to itself. It comes in a spool that is basically like a roll of electric tape. We used it at a plant I worked at to cover cuts or spots that wore on your skin. It would be perfect for string building if anyone knows the real name of it. I will look on the net to see if I can find it.


Well that was quick. This stuff is awesome..
http://www.magidglove.com/mobile/Gu...0A8atpyC_vfF2p45dufJuI3j03ZxEVeIYEaAmru8P8HAQ It's only a couple bucks a roll if you can find it somewhere but it's definetly worth it!


----------



## bryanroberts

bryanroberts said:


> Well that was quick. This stuff is awesome..
> http://www.magidglove.com/mobile/Gu...0A8atpyC_vfF2p45dufJuI3j03ZxEVeIYEaAmru8P8HAQ It's only a couple bucks a roll if you can find it somewhere but it's definetly worth it!


walmart online has 4 rolls for 2.99.. which would last you a lifetime...I can't believe it was that easy to find..I would of gotten some a long time ago.


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## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> walmart online has 4 rolls for 2.99.. which would last you a lifetime...I can't believe it was that easy to find..I would of gotten some a long time ago.


Nice. I thought about stuff like that before but I already had a roll of duct tape so I never went further than that. The duct tape I think is a counterfeit roll anyway. It sucks compared to the stuff I've had in the past. It's "Duck" brand too but it's awful tape.


----------



## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> Nice. I thought about stuff like that before but I already had a roll of duct tape so I never went further than that. The duct tape I think is a counterfeit roll anyway. It sucks compared to the stuff I've had in the past. It's "Duck" brand too but it's awful tape.


This stuff goes on thin and let's you still feel and have mobility but protects against cuts. Then it comes off and leaves nothing sticky behind. You will just have to give it a whirl it's definetly worth it.


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## Binary cam man

It's a funny thing,way back in this thread we were told about this. Did we listen? NO! I didn't listen either. Then it happens. Then you tell yourself, Wow this stuff is razor sharp. LOL because you know you were warned. We call it learning.LOL. I chose rubber gloves from Harbor Freight. 7mil. Thick,50 for 9 bucks. I bought them one size smaller then I normally wear. They have little nubs and grip well. I never had one cut threw. They take a little getting use to. And you don't wear them all the time anyway. Before I take them off I wash them with dish washing liquid and dry them. You can use them over and over. Since you have a box of 50, you can use them for other things also. Works for me.


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## automan26

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000...tors-Latex-glove-free-shipping/562606392.html

Maybe these?

Automan


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## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000...tors-Latex-glove-free-shipping/562606392.html
> 
> Maybe these?
> 
> Automan


Oh yah..pygmy condoms.. those might work!


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000...tors-Latex-glove-free-shipping/562606392.html
> 
> Maybe these?
> 
> Automan


For me, I like something thick to not only prevent cuts but also prevent developing blisters. That's where the thick padding from the duct tape comes in. Once in a while I actually will have a little cut in the duct tape so I'm not sure thin latex like those would hold up well.


----------



## bryanroberts

I hate to beat a dead horse but that green tape is perfect..


----------



## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> I hate to beat a dead horse but that green tape is perfect..


The Guard-tex tape sounds like it would work great for all you tape guys out there. After I run out of gloves I may even try some. I wonder whose going to write the 100th post? I hope it's you Huntinsker.


----------



## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> The Guard-tex tape sounds like it would work great for all you tape guys out there. After I run out of gloves I may even try some. I wonder whose going to write the 100th post? I hope it's you Huntinsker.


2,477 posts. page 100... congrats Huntinsker and automan26 and everyone who has been part of this thread! !


----------



## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> The Guard-tex tape sounds like it would work great for all you tape guys out there. After I run out of gloves I may even try some. I wonder whose going to write the 100th post? I hope it's you Huntinsker.


That stuff is called tape but it's not sticky anywhere but somehow sticks to itself. it's like thin gauze. Like I said you would just have to try it. At the factory I worked at it was a miracle cure to your fingers and hands to protect them from cuts or to cover cuts.. we couldn't keep it around it was so popular.


----------



## lbb

Huntinsker, those are the same exact places that I've had cuts on. Thanks guys. I appreciate the input. I think I'll try finding some of the green tape. Yeah, I remember something about the "warning" way back at the beginning. I'm stupid that way. I'll get excited about something and dive in head first and make the mistakes that I was forewarned about. Huntinsker, thanks again for the thread. I've enjoyed learning. I'm feeling pretty good about the strings that I'm turning out. I hope to try my hand at a pin stripe before too long.


----------



## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> 2,477 posts. page 100... congrats Huntinsker and automan26 and everyone who has been part of this thread! !





lbb said:


> Huntinsker, those are the same exact places that I've had cuts on. Thanks guys. I appreciate the input. I think I'll try finding some of the green tape. Yeah, I remember something about the "warning" way back at the beginning. I'm stupid that way. I'll get excited about something and dive in head first and make the mistakes that I was forewarned about. Huntinsker, thanks again for the thread. I've enjoyed learning. I'm feeling pretty good about the strings that I'm turning out. I hope to try my hand at a pin stripe before too long.


:thumbs_up


----------



## soldier1265

That tape looks like the stuff they use at the doctors to hold gauze after drawing blood.


----------



## bryanroberts

soldier1265 said:


> That tape looks like the stuff they use at the doctors to hold gauze after drawing blood.


This tape has no sticky whatsoever. The only way it will stick to you is if you wrap it back on itself. It sticks to itself very good but you can't take a piece and stick it to anything. It's like if you took a piece of gauze and unfolded it to 1 thin piece but somehow it sticks to itself tightly. it's neat stuff.


----------



## shinobi3

What's the least amount of strands you guys have used for fury? I usually use 28 just wondering if anyone has used less.


----------



## deerbum

bryanroberts said:


> That stuff is called tape but it's not sticky anywhere but somehow sticks to itself. it's like thin gauze. Like I said you would just have to try it. At the factory I worked at it was a miracle cure to your fingers and hands to protect them from cuts or to cover cuts.. we couldn't keep it around it was so popular.


Here is the stuff phlebotomists use, it might be a cheaper alternative.http://m.ebay.com/itm/201322074261?nav=SEARCH


----------



## Bownut400

shinobi3 said:


> What's the least amount of strands you guys have used for fury? I usually use 28 just wondering if anyone has used less.


I just used 24 strands but only a 40 lb bow for my daughter, I'll let you know how it turns out. The center serving is a little tricky for nock fit. I used some .026 braided I had from years ago.
I am interested on less strands on a big boy bows too.


----------



## shinobi3

Hey that helps because I'm making two strings for some youth bows. Would also like to know about the big kids bow[emoji6]


----------



## automan26

Bownut400 said:


> I just used 24 strands but only a 40 lb bow for my daughter, I'll let you know how it turns out. The center serving is a little tricky for nock fit. I used some .026 braided I had from years ago.
> I am interested on less strands on a big boy bows too.


I have been making a lot of 24 strand strings for my 50#-53# Sentinels and so far so good. 24 is less than called for by Brownell, but I think they are just being careful.

Automan


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks Joe... I will give it a try


----------



## athomp70

Huntinsker what size hole do you drill in the steel bar where the 5/8 rod goes through?


----------



## Huntinsker

athomp70 said:


> Huntinsker what size hole do you drill in the steel bar where the 5/8 rod goes through?


I drilled through with a 5/8" bit. I thought I may have to go bigger but it fit through nicely. Everything I read said to use a 17/32" drill bit but I didn't need to.


----------



## athomp70

Ok thanks


----------



## automan26

I took my new jig and did some practice threads using the new gray 60# Chinese fishing line I ordered by mistake. The fishing line is a coarse braid and really wraps well and ties off with a very neat and tight finish. It is great stuff and grips the string very well.

Automan


----------



## b0w_bender

That's a nice looking end loop!


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> I took my new jig and did some practice threads using the new gray 60# Chinese fishing line I ordered by mistake. The fishing line is a coarse braid and really wraps well and ties off with a very neat and tight finish. It is great stuff and grips the string very well.
> 
> Automan


That looks really good! is that the 4 braid? I think that's what it's called..I haven't gotten in to the fishing line yet but I can tell with pics like that it's coming soon!


----------



## Binary cam man

bryanroberts said:


> That looks really good! is that the 4 braid? I think that's what it's called..I haven't gotten in to the fishing line yet but I can tell with pics like that it's coming soon!


 Hi, I just completed 600 shots. I'm not finished. My back will only take so much. Still no serving separation or stretch. That's just an update. What I really wanted to do is give my thoughts on materials. 4 strand and 8 strand of the same diameter material. The 8 strand has to be 1/2 the diameter per strand of the 4 strand to equal the total diameter. Best to buy a small spool and test for yourself. Are thinner strands stronger than thicker strands? See what I'm saying? I think this way with all the materials of the same composition. In engineering school the first thing they teach is strength of materials. Test don't guess. Hope this helps.


----------



## b0w_bender

Binary cam man said:


> Are thinner strands stronger than thicker strands? See what I'm saying? I think this way with all the materials of the same composition. In engineering school the first thing they teach is strength of materials. Test don't guess. Hope this helps.


Generally speaking what makes the more strand options more desirable is the better redundancy. If you break a strand (this is often not visually apparent)in a 24 strand string then you only loose one 24th of the overall string strength. Where as if you loose one in a 16 strand thread you lose 16th of the overall strength. If you double that then you lose a 12th of the strength vs an 8th. Triple it and you have 84% strength vs 75% So failures in the higher strand count tend to be slower and usually not catastrophic. More strands tend to give you are smoother cleaner looking finish too.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Hi, I just completed 600 shots. I'm not finished. My back will only take so much. Still no serving separation or stretch. That's just an update. What I really wanted to do is give my thoughts on materials. 4 strand and 8 strand of the same diameter material. The 8 strand has to be 1/2 the diameter per strand of the 4 strand to equal the total diameter. Best to buy a small spool and test for yourself. Are thinner strands stronger than thicker strands? See what I'm saying? I think this way with all the materials of the same composition. In engineering school the first thing they teach is strength of materials. Test don't guess. Hope this helps.


8 strand braid vs a 4 strand braid definitely have different properties. The 8 strand braid is much smoother and "more slick" than the 4 strand. The extra slick 8 strand braid may do really well on roller guards, idler wheels and other areas where you're trying to reduce friction. The 4 strand stuff would most likely grip the string better so would possibly do better as an end serving where it gets bent and pulled. The extra grip would help it keep from separating in that instance. 

However, you may not get as much durability in the 4 strand as the 8 strand. As b0w_bender said, the higher the strand count, the more redundancy in the braid. One strand wears through, you still have 7 more. Just have to weigh the pros and cons of each and then decide what may work best for you. Then of course, testing it is the final step to see if it actually works the way you want it to.


----------



## Binary cam man

Got it. A thin strand will break before a thicker strand. Thank you.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> 8 strand braid vs a 4 strand braid definitely have different properties. The 8 strand braid is much smoother and "more slick" than the 4 strand. The extra slick 8 strand braid may do really well on roller guards, idler wheels and other areas where you're trying to reduce friction. The 4 strand stuff would most likely grip the string better so would possibly do better as an end serving where it gets bent and pulled. The extra grip would help it keep from separating in that instance.
> 
> However, you may not get as much durability in the 4 strand as the 8 strand. As b0w_bender said, the higher the strand count, the more redundancy in the braid. One strand wears through, you still have 7 more. Just have to weigh the pros and cons of each and then decide what may work best for you. Then of course, testing it is the final step to see if it actually works the way you want it to.


. So if a strand breaks just keep on shooting. It's ok. I'm sorry I don't mean to be this way. And if it's inside the bundle the noise it makes you will know. I just did this test. Put it on the stretcher and see for yourself. Stretch and measure each.


----------



## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> . So if a strand breaks just keep on shooting. It's ok. I'm sorry I don't mean to be this way. And if it's inside the bundle the noise it makes you will know. I just did this test. Put it on the stretcher and see for yourself. Stretch and measure each.


I'm talking about the serving, not the string. If one of the 8 strands in a braided end serving wears through, you won't even know. I never shoot a string with a broken strand and I don't think b0w_bender was advocating that either. He was just saying that having more strands makes the string safer in that there is more redundancy. The more strands there are, the harder it would be for the string to completely let go.


----------



## bryanroberts

For any of you guys who are serving your end loops instead of tag end, give Spiderwire ultracast invisabraid 20# clear/white a try. It holds great and makes beautiful loops.


----------



## shinobi3

Where did you get your four post jig


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## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> Where did you get your four post jig


Don't have one.. My friend owns a big pro shop in the next town over from mine and he has one. He has mathews, hoyt, and pse bows. Anyway he has one and we were messing around trying some of the things we have heard about and this was the best new thing we tried. I use a great El cheapo and will probably never go to a 4 post.


----------



## Huntinsker

I've been kicking around the idea of building another set of end posts so that I can have a 3 post jig. I've been wanting to try served loops and want to be able to build endless loop strings for my recurve and longbows.


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> I've been kicking around the idea of building another set of end posts so that I can have a 3 post jig. I've been wanting to try served loops and want to be able to build endless loop strings for my recurve and longbows.


Is it possible to keep string tension consistent with a 3 or 4 post? i have almost no experience with either, just a conversation we had last night.


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## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> Is it possible to keep string tension consistent with a 3 or 4 post? i have almost no experience with either, just a conversation we had last night.


It is but like with anything else, it takes practice. You also have to have a VERY stout jig. Any flex in the posts will do you in in a hurry. If I build it, I'll definitely over build it.


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> It is but like with anything else, it takes practice. You also have to have a VERY stout jig. Any flex in the posts will do you in in a hurry. If I build it, I'll definitely over build it.


I think I will stick with the 2 post El deluxo cheapo grande!!!


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## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> I'm talking about the serving, not the string. If one of the 8 strands in a braided end serving wears through, you won't even know. I never shoot a string with a broken strand and I don't think b0w_bender was advocating that either. He was just saying that having more strands makes the string safer in that there is more redundancy. The more strands there are, the harder it would be for the string to completely let go.


I apologize. If you go back to bow bender it sounded like he was talking about string material also. Let's move on. Check this out.


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## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> I apologize. If you go back to bow bender it sounded like he was talking about string material also. Let's move on. Check this out.
> View attachment 2298249
> View attachment 2298249
> View attachment 2298257


Looks nice. I'm thinking something very similar except with some bracing in the middle between the posts and maybe even heavier.


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## Binary cam man

2 pieces of bar stock steel. 8 inches long. 7/8 wide. 5/16 thick. Drill 1/4 inch whole in center. Come in on each end 1 inch center and drill holes also 1/4 inch. Next cut the heads off 2 1/4 20 x 21/2 bolts. Next go to one of our favorite places,MCMASTER CARR and order 5 INCH STAND OFFS. They cost $5.50 each. They will say 1/4 20 thread. 1 1/2 inch 1/4 20 bolt up from the bottom of each post. 2 2 inch body washers. A 2 inch 1/4 20 bolt for the center. And a super strut nut. I forgot the super strut shim in the pictures so when you turn it the bottom bolts can pass over the super strut. I'll send a photo of that next.


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## Binary cam man

. This work great for me and no flex between the posts. I can also use this as a 3 post because it's the same hight as the jig. Remember me ? I like to serve the loops with serving material. It takes a little longer to do. And there is measuring involved. I'm not going to say its easy. It's another process to master.


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## shinobi3

I've heard that the Brownell Is Really good...


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## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> I've heard that the Brownell Is Really good...


Depends who you talk to.....


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## AzizaVFR

Huntinsker said:


> It is but like with anything else, it takes practice. You also have to have a VERY stout jig. Any flex in the posts will do you in in a hurry. If I build it, I'll definitely over build it.


Yes, overbuild it, like this. 1" CRS posts, 1/2" plates, 3/8" locking plates, and a detent pin for locking it into position.


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## Huntinsker

AzizaVFR said:


> Yes, overbuild it, like this. 1" CRS posts, 1/2" plates, 3/8" locking plates, and a detent pin for locking it into position.


That's the plan. Your jig looks like a good one to go off of. It's very similar to what I had in my head already.


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## atoned4.byhim

Good deal


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## Binary cam man

AzizaVFR said:


> Yes, overbuild it, like this. 1" CRS posts, 1/2" plates, 3/8" locking plates, and a detent pin for locking it into position.


I've seen this in a prior post. NICE, CLEAN, PROFESSIONAL. I like it. I have a question? Are the pins on top of the posts removable?


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## AzizaVFR

The pins are not removable. They are 0.25" in diameter, and 1" tall cut down from the base stock material. Two things I did after these pictures were taken are add some wrench flats to the bottom of the posts, along with four tag ends tie points per post. 

The distances between the posts is 10.0" outer holes and 5.0" for the inner holes. The top plate rotates on a 1/2" shoulder bolt, while the smaller pieces with the 3/4" hex head are the main clamps. This allows for the post to be rotated and not move under tension. Here is a picture of the bottom and top clamping plates.



If I were do them again, I would use 303 stainless for all materials.


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## shinobi3

New Brownell blue


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## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> New Brownell blue


looks good!


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## b0w_bender

ooooh Seahawks colors very nice! GO HAWKS!


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## automan26

shinobi3 said:


> New Brownell blue


Great colors. You are doing an awesome job. I am both impressed and jealous.

Automan


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## Binary cam man

shinobi3 said:


> New Brownell blue


. You're in it to win it . Awesome!


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## deerbum

b0w_bender said:


> ooooh Seahawks colors very nice! GO HAWKS!


I liked it until this comment. Would suggest discarding and going with green and gold.


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## Binary cam man

AzizaVFR said:


> The pins are not removable. They are 0.25" in diameter, and 1" tall cut down from the base stock material. Two things I did after these pictures were taken are add some wrench flats to the bottom of the posts, along with four tag ends tie points per post.
> 
> The distances between the posts is 10.0" outer holes and 5.0" for the inner holes. The top plate rotates on a 1/2" shoulder bolt, while the smaller pieces with the 3/4" hex head are the main clamps. This allows for the post to be rotated and not move under tension. Here is a picture of the bottom and top clamping plates.
> 
> 
> 
> If I were do them again, I would use 303 stainless for all materials.


. I got it now. That's a nice piece of flat stock you have inside the super strut. Excellent design! I could never build that. I don't have a machine shop.


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## Binary cam man

deerbum said:


> I liked it until this comment. Would suggest discarding and going with green and gold.


Hey, don't forget the "LOL" next time. Go GIANTS! LOL.


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## shinobi3

Thanks for all the comments


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## bryanroberts

For those of you who have no issues on your end serving then this will be something you probably already know about. For those of you having trouble I thought I would share where I made my mistake. After seeing some great transitions from the loop I wanted mine to look like that. I was cranking down on my serving as tight as I possibly could which was causing bulges and no real taper just a dead end. Thanks to automan26,Huntinsker, and alot of trial and error and I realized that the serving needed to be tight but not severe lock down tight where it goes up the transition of the loop. Everyone has to figure out there own way but this one little thing was keeping me from making the ends as nice as I would like them to be.


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## bryanroberts

The serving above is not perfect by any means but now after alot of trial and error I am at least headed in the right direction.


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## jhinaz

Binary cam man said:


> . I got it now. That's a nice piece of flat stock you have inside the super strut. Excellent design! I could never build that. I don't have a machine shop.


fyi I show a 'non-machine shop' 3 or 4 post option in post #602 on page 25. - John


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## Binary cam man

jhinaz said:


> Waaay back near the beginning of this thread (post #20) Huntinsker responded to a question about ‘different ways to achieve end results’.
> 
> 
> Then (post #22) Robert43 describes using a Beiter / Bohning center serving jig (the item like a big U) to do end-servings but I don’t remember any other methods being offered.
> 
> Before reading Huntinsker’s ‘Comprehensive’ thread I had always served my end-loops. Now I really like the ‘2-post jig’ and I think I prefer using the tag-wrap method. However, I still want the ability to serve the loops, so after a few iterations I decided on an adapter.
> 
> It uses (2) Red Head 6” x ½” Sleeved Anchor Bolts, (2) ½” Coupling Nuts, (2) ½” bolts with heads removed (or ½” all-thread), (3) ½”-13 strut bolts and nuts, and a 12”x2”x1/2” steel bar. As an option, you can add 2 short-lengths of strut under the steel bar to lock-in the 90 degree angle (or if you want a little more versatility, replace the 2 short-lengths of strut with a ‘4-hole strut connector’......it's also more costly and more labor intensive). - John[/QUOTE. I remember this one. I just couldn't figure out how to turn it from 90 to 0 to measure post settings.


----------



## jhinaz

Binary cam man said:


> I remember this one. I just couldn't figure out how to turn it from 90 to 0 to measure post settings.


You can make the '3-post adapter' using either '2-short lengths of strut', or a '4-hole strut connector'. The '4-hole strut connector' can be positioned either perpendicular OR in-line over the main Uni-strut channel, however, the '2-short lengths of strut' method can ONLY be used perpendicular. The '3-post adapter' is used in the perpendicular position (which both options provide) but the '4-hole strut connector' can also be used in-line as a string-clamp when serving your entire bowstring. In either case, you will lay out your string using the 'Huntinsker 2-post jig', then insert the '3-post adapter' between the bundles at one end of your jig and secure your tag-ends to those string-clamps on the '3-post adapter'.....adjust the tautness and then serve your loop-end. After that end is served you place it back on the 'Huntinsker 2-post jig' and move the '3-post adapter' to the other end of your jig/string bundles and repeat. After that 2nd end is served you place it back on the 'Huntinsker 2-post jig' and tension the string (300 lbs. or whatever).....and continue with Huntinsker's directions from this point. - John


----------



## bryanroberts

Using the 2 post jig and marking the exact center between the posts. Then put in a serving seperator (the big U) and serve over your center marks. Then cut your ends of and spin served area back to posts..... Would this method keep string tension tight? and would it work for people who want to serve their loops but don't have access to a 3 or 4 post? i dont know but always thought this would be an easy way to do it if you wanted to serve your loop.


----------



## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> Using the 2 post jig and marking the exact center between the posts. Then put in a serving seperator (the big U) and serve over your center marks. Then cut your ends of and spin served area back to posts..... Would this method keep string tension tight? and would it work for people who want to serve their loops but don't have access to a 3 or 4 post? i dont know but always thought this would be an easy way to do it if you wanted to serve your loop.


Nope, it doesn't work, at least for me.. I tried that a couple weekends ago. When I put in the "U", the tension goes out the window and your tag ends start to pull and the bundle gets longer making it too long for your post setting.


----------



## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> Nope, it doesn't work, at least for me.. I tried that a couple weekends ago. When I put in the "U", the tension goes out the window and your tag ends start to pull and the bundle gets longer making it too long for your post setting.


That's exactly what I was afraid of. There is a french guy that doesn't speak English that does a string on the net this way but I didn't sit through it to watch what he does.


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## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> That's exactly what I was afraid of. There is a french guy that doesn't speak English that does a string on the net this way but I didn't sit through it to watch what he does.


I suppose it may work if you can keep your tag ends absolutely stationary without them slipping at all. I didn't tie off the tag end but rather just clamped them in my clamps. I think it may work if you wrap your tag ends around the posts on each end and you're able to keep them from coming loose. I'm going to give it another try but I still think I'll just build a 2 post end for the jig.


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## raleigh8605

What if you ditched the bungees and tied the tags off to the posts. I would think if you slipped the U in then and left it in for a few minutes. I would think that would add a little tension and even out the strands without affecting your overall string length. 
Just a thought, never tried it though. I may be wrong.


----------



## Huntinsker

raleigh8605 said:


> What if you ditched the bungees and tied the tags off to the posts. I would think if you slipped the U in then and left it in for a few minutes. I would think that would add a little tension and even out the strands without affecting your overall string length.
> Just a thought, never tried it though. I may be wrong.


Yeah I'm going to try that. The "U" actually takes up quite a bit of space. When I tried it, I made a something that was more like control cable length. It was a little over 30". Putting the "U" in the middle of something that short was actually kind of tough. As soon as I started putting it between the bundle, the tag ends started slipping. Another thing that happened was when serving the loops, there was a lot of wobble when wrapping the serving jig over the string. You would definitely need to modify a string clamp to put on either side of the "U" to keep it from wobbling back and forth.


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## raleigh8605

Oops, I pretty much posted the same thing you did. We must have been typing at the same time. You just got it out quicker. Oh well. Great minds must think a like.


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## jhinaz

bryanroberts said:


> <snipit> and serve over your center marks.


you make equal marks above and below your center-mark and serve between them.


bryanroberts said:


> Then cut your ends of and spin served area back to posts.....


there's no spinning......the far-end is usually kind of 'stuck' to the far-post due to the string wax......you just relieve the pressure from the '3-post adapter' and slip the served-end back on the near-end of your 2-post jig. Align the serving ends, then go to the 'other' end with your 'adapter' and repeat the process.


bryanroberts said:


> Would this method keep string tension tight?


you must tie-off the tag-ends.....you can see the string clamps at each end of the 'adapter' in the picture. 


bryanroberts said:


> and would it work for people who want to serve their loops but don't have access to a 3 or 4 post?


Yes, it will work for people that don't have a 3 or 4 post jig......the 'adapter' effectively makes a 3-post jig out of a 2-post jig. - John


----------



## jhinaz

Huntinsker said:


> When I put in the "U", the tension goes out the window and your tag ends start to pull and the bundle gets longer making it too long for your post setting.


I can't answer for when using a 'U' but when using the '3-post adapter' method, you remove slack from the string in the same way that you mentioned in your instructions....pull on the tag-ends and you can visually see the slack disappear. - John


----------



## bryanroberts

jhinaz said:


> you make equal marks above and below your center-mark and serve between them.
> 
> there's no spinning......the far-end is usually kind of 'stuck' to the far-post due to the string wax......you just relieve the pressure from the '3-post adapter' and slip the served-end back on the near-end of your 2-post jig. Align the serving ends, then go to the 'other' end with your 'adapter' and repeat the process.
> 
> you must tie-off the tag-ends.....you can see the string clamps at each end of the 'adapter' in the picture.
> 
> Yes, it will work for people that don't have a 3 or 4 post jig......the 'adapter' effectively makes a 3-post jig out of a 2-post jig. - John


auto correct on spin. I meant take your served area and rotate back to your posts


----------



## bryanroberts

If I sold strings I would probably think about serving my loops especially for customers who requested it. For me and the couple friends that get new threads, tag end looks and works fine.


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## jhinaz

bryanroberts said:


> For me and the couple friends that get new threads, tag end looks and works fine.


^^^^^^I agree. - John


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## bryanroberts

We've got the tag end...served loop...and whatever you would call this at the 2 minute mark of this 6 min video. If you got a couple minutes check this video out. https://youtu.be/vVllzfhT2Wg


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## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> We've got the tag end...served loop...and whatever you would call this at the 2 minute mark of this 6 min video. If you got a couple minutes check this video out. https://youtu.be/vVllzfhT2Wg


I've seen that video posted on AT before and the general consensus was that we like his jig, we didn't like his method. At the 3:57 mark, you can see a big gap in his serving where he goes over where he tied off his tag ends and the serving jumped over the bump.


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## bryanroberts

Wouldn't it be nice to have that machine to serve with! By the time he went 9 inches I'd still be trying to start! lol... I agree with the sloppy serving and I didn't care for the twisted loop either.


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## Binary cam man

Google how to make compound strings. You tube. Look for Pat Moore in the post. 3 video set. He uses a 3post jig. And serves the loops. Who knows you may even recognize this gentleman.


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## automan26

*Making served loops on a two-post jig*

I played around with a procedure which allows me to serve the loops on my El-Cheap-O. I was not careful and screwed up my loops at the very last moment and never bothered to finish, but I think I have a procedure that will work just fine without having to build an extra set of posts.
(This is how I built a 24 strand string--10 green, 4 black pins, 10 gray

Terms--Primary Anchor will be the normal anchor like you would normally make.
Extra Anchor will be the anchor that is used to anchor the extra 1/2 loop strand

1. Measure the length of your serving jig and cut two sections of arrow shaft and insert nocks in each end. These will be used to separate the two main bundles on each side of the jig posts, so build them to a length that will be a good healthy inch longer than your serving jig when measured between the throat of the nocks.

2. Primary anchor the green on the left side of the jig and make 5.5 wraps, ending with the extra anchor on the right side of the jig. This extra half wrap will become a tag end.

3. Primary anchor the black pinstripe on the left side of the jig and make 2.5 wraps, ending with the extra anchor on the right side of the jig.

4. Primary anchor the gray on the right side of the jig and make 5.5 wraps, ending with the extra anchor on the left side of the jig.

AT THIS POINT YOU WILL HAVE THREE TAGS AT EACH END OF THE STRING

5. Starting with the right side post, measure about 30" or so down the string and make a mark using a sharpie. This is where you will start your serving. Go down the string another 2.5" and make another mark. This is where you will end your serving.

6. Now go down to the left side post and perform the exact same procedure, using the exact same measurements on the opposite side bundle. Accurate measurement is very important.

7. Leave your tag ends firmly anchored and insert your arrow shaft separators across both main bundles on either sides of the marks you made on one of the main bundles. Leave yourself some decent space between the marks and the separators. Bisect the strands in one main bundle and run a wooden ruler through that bundle close to one of the serving indicator marks you just made then pass it through be bundle and across to the opposite bundle and bisect the strands as you just did before. This will keep the string from twisting as you operate the serving tool. Do the exact same thing, using a second ruler, just beyoud the other serving indicator mark. Now you your string will have--one arrow shaft bundle separator, the ruler, a 2.5" gap, the other ruler and finally the last arrow shaft bundle separator.

8. Use your serving jig to apply the serving for the loop.

9. When you have finished serving the first loop section, move all your equipment to the marked secton on the opposite side bundle and repeat the same procedure.

10 When both sections have been served, remove the rulers, the separators then remove the tags from their anchors, relax the jig a bit then slide the string until the served sections wrap evenly around the posts. If you have measured correctly the loops should set identically around each post.

11. Apply moderate tension to the string and allow the strands to equalize and now you can complete the string in the exact same manner you did when you served the loop using the tag end method. After you install the golf tees you will want to wrap the tags around a color bundle to secure them, then cut them off. This is exactly how many guys finish the tag method anyway.

During this process the arrow shaft bundle separators may want to jump out, so go a bit easy on the string as you serve the sort sections.

When I tried this procedure I ended up with a practice string with the correct number of strands in each color and a nice served loop. I did not wind the loop serving tight enough and as I was finishing the end serving, the serving jig messed up the nice serving I had on the loop, but had I had it wrapped tight enough all would have worked fine. Due to the shortness of my practice string I was also unable to use the wooden rulers and the string twisted a bit during serving. There are probably many ways to secure the string from twisting that are better than my suggestions, so be creative.

I tried to take some pics but with the bad lighting and my cell phone camera, things did not come out as planned. This explanation sounds waaaaay more complicated than it really is and once you start making a practice string you will see that it is really quite simple. 

Automam


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## shinobi3

I've done this before with the string arrow separators but I measure wrong. I'm gonna try this again and I will try and take some pics. Do you think you could use sharpies to separate the strands?


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## shinobi3

Well I tried it again and the measurement was right but I couldn't keep the arrow in the strong. I also had a lot of twist... Back to the drawing board lol


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## shinobi3

How long was the string you did this with?


----------



## bryanroberts

Anyone tried a piece of serving, around 24 inches,
and sliding it between the bundle and the back of the post and hand serving the loop? The same as you would do if you had a loop with no tags. I have no idea if you could serve it tight enough or if it would slide around the post like a tag end I was just thinking out loud! lol


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## shinobi3

It would be cool to figure out a way


----------



## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> Anyone tried a piece of serving, around 24 inches,
> and sliding it between the bundle and the back of the post and hand serving the loop? The same as you would do if you had a loop with no tags. I have no idea if you could serve it tight enough or if it would slide around the post like a tag end I was just thinking out loud! lol


I've thought about it but I'm not sure you could get it tight enough so it wouldn't separate really badly. The tag ends work because you can actually overlap them but you can't overlap serving.


----------



## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> I've thought about it but I'm not sure you could get it tight enough so it wouldn't separate really badly. The tag ends work because you can actually overlap them but you can't overlap serving.


I'm with you on that. I don't know if you could ever get it tight enough. Here is a link to a video of a guy using a seperator on a two post. It's in French though so turn the volume down and enjoy unless of course you speak French then you can translate it to all of us. lol. https://youtu.be/Fd2KgvoT9PQ


----------



## bryanroberts

bryanroberts said:


> I'm with you on that. I don't know if you could ever get it tight enough. Here is a link to a video of a guy using a seperator on a two post. It's in French though so turn the volume down and enjoy unless of course you speak French then you can translate it to all of us. lol. https://youtu.be/Fd2KgvoT9PQ


it looks like he sticks a socket in separating the colors just outside the seperator to prevent twisting.
One more thing.. Did the guy in this video use one color bcy and one fury??


----------



## automan26

shinobi3 said:


> Well I tried it again and the measurement was right but I couldn't keep the arrow in the strong. I also had a lot of twist... Back to the drawing board lol




Back in the days of mono center serving I used to carry a couple of the arrow separators in my bow box for use when replacing center serving in the field. I used these a lot and they worked fine, but they did have a tendency to pop out if you were not careful. The farther you can space them apart, the better the chances of them staying in place. I also used these quite extensively years ago when used to serve my loops in the middle of the string, not around the loops, using tag ends. Again, they worked because I had them spaced about 6-7" apart but they still would pop out if I wasn't careful.

This afternoon after work I had an idea so I stopped by the local hardware store and picked up some 1/2" PVC pipe and four 1/2" tee sections. This is what I am going to try for separators. They shouldn't have any problem popping out. As you can see, I cut four tee sections in half and stuck them on a length of PVC pipe. I won't have a chance to try them for a couple days, but it appears that these will work great.

Automan


----------



## skynight

When I serve the end loops I do it with 200# of tension using a little jon. I can't see these e experiments being satisfactory.


----------



## Binary cam man

I tried all of that. Then I built a 2 post. Problem solved.


----------



## jhinaz

Binary cam man said:


> I tried all of that. Then I built a 2 post. Problem solved.


^^^^^^ ;-) - John


----------



## cgchris99

Does automated server style matter in the finished quality or peep rotation reliability? Is the specialty archery method better than say the outer limits automated winder?


----------



## automan26

I decided to unwind an old, short test string to demonstrate how these separators work. They hold the string well and do not pop out and for those who want to serve the loops with serving and not tag ends, these would probably do the trick. The length of the string in the pic is quite short and it does bind on the tee sections, drawing them in a bit under pressure, but on a longer string this should be no issue at all. It might be a good idea to insert a piece of leather between the tee and the string to protect the string a bit better, but I think that the setup as pictured would work just fine.

I still prefer using the tag end method for serving the loops because I think is produces a higher quality string. When attempting to serve the loops with a serving tool it is very difficult to perform the procedure without rolling the string during the process. It probably has no effect on the final outcome of the string, but I just don't like it. Still, there are those who think that serving the loops makes a nicer string, so I put this out for those who may want to serve the loops using two posts instead of three or four posts. I have less than $5.00 into this setup and about 10 minutes work with a hacksaw. 

If I ever decided to use this method I would space the tee sections far enough apart to get a string clamp on the string between them to hold the string from twisting.
It would also be a good idea to apply the serving closer to the center of the string rather than closer to the ends. This would allow you to pull some good tension on the string during serving, reducing its tendency to twist.

I doubt that I will ever use these tee sections, but it is here for anyone who wants to try it without a huge investment
Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

cgchris99 said:


> Does automated server style matter in the finished quality or peep rotation reliability? Is the specialty archery method better than say the outer limits automated winder?


The only thing that really matters is the competency of the builder. There are strings out there that don't have any peep rotation built with all different tools and methods. Learn your tools and get your process down and you can make awesome threads no matter what tools you use.


----------



## automan26

After all my work and designing PVC separator above, the moment I hit the post button it hit me--I made this thing way too complicated. Forget the tee sections and simply go with a section of 1/2" PVC pipe. Cut it to length then take a saw and cut a groove across the top and bottom of the pipe sections to secure the string under tension and be done with it. This will work exactly like the arrow shaft separators and it will stay put under tension. Simpler is better, I only wish I had thought of this much earlier.

Automan


----------



## b0w_bender

cgchris99 said:


> Does automated server style matter in the finished quality or peep rotation reliability? Is the specialty archery method better than say the outer limits automated winder?


I think you will find that the automated tools give you way more consistent tension on the serving sections as apposed to wrapping by hand. You can really see the difference when you are using serving thread that has a pattern to it. the hand wrapped will often have a rather pronounced variances in the pattern but the automated ones look way more consistent. As far as the difference between the manual winders like the NWSpinner or the Outer Limits Moto versus the specialty archery machine that spins the string I think the only major difference is speed of the build process. Given the same amount of time I expect you can turn out more strings with the specialty string machine. As mentioned above both can produce a quality string it just a matter of time and process. I know of several professional string builders that use the NWSpinner exclusively. Some of the Specialty guys have NWSpinners as backups in case the Cadillac goes down. I'm sure the same is true for the Moto.


----------



## cgchris99

I had one string builder tell me the specialty method allows for more variances in the string twists under the serving since it spins the string and a lot of those using NWspinners clamp the string in place so it cannot twist more as it's served? Thoughts?


----------



## Huntinsker

cgchris99 said:


> I had one string builder tell me the specialty method allows for more variances in the string twists under the serving since it spins the string and a lot of those using NWspinners clamp the string in place so it cannot twist more as it's served? Thoughts?


Any variances in string twist rate will lead to peep twist. It doesn't matter what tool you use. The peep twists because as you shoot the bow, the twist rate will begin to equalize throughout the string. If the twist rate under the serving is different than the non-served areas, that will cause the twists to leave the area of high twist rate and move to the area of low twist rate. 

Maybe what he was trying to say was that if you spin the string itself, there is less of a chance of it having variances in the twist rate. I'm not sure if that's true because I've never used a specialty serving machine but either way, any variance is bad.


----------



## bryanroberts

If you had variances(known or unknown) wouldn't the resting period after serving and the shoot in period before setting your peep allow these variances to equalize before installing your peep? I don't know the answer I guess it's something I haven't had to deal with yet.


----------



## Huntinsker

bryanroberts said:


> If you had variances(known or unknown) wouldn't the resting period after serving and the shoot in period before setting your peep allow these variances to equalize before installing your peep? I don't know the answer I guess it's something I haven't had to deal with yet.


The resting period doesn't do much to help but the shoot in period does. That's the primary reason for the shoot in period. It "shocks" the string and snaps it tight to force the twists to equalize. The problem is when you have severe differences and a lot of serving. In that case, it can take upwards of many hundreds of shots for the twist to equalize and that whole time, you'll have peep issues unless you use a peep with a tube.


----------



## automan26

I just whipped this out on an El-Cheap-O, 2-poster. I am not a big fan of served loops, but I did this to show those who might be so inclined that it can be done with two posts if you do not have a 3-post setup.

Automan


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> I just whipped this out on an El-Cheap-O, 2-poster. I am not a big fan of served loops, but I did this to show those who might be so inclined that it can be done with two posts if you do not have a 3-post setup.
> 
> Automan


Looks good to me Automan26!


----------



## b0w_bender

Huntinsker said:


> Any variances in string twist rate will lead to peep twist. It doesn't matter what tool you use. The peep twists because as you shoot the bow, the twist rate will begin to equalize throughout the string. If the twist rate under the serving is different than the non-served areas, that will cause the twists to leave the area of high twist rate and move to the area of low twist rate.
> 
> Maybe what he was trying to say was that if you spin the string itself, there is less of a chance of it having variances in the twist rate. I'm not sure if that's true because I've never used a specialty serving machine but either way, any variance is bad.


I'm pretty much on-board with what Huntinsker says here. When you are serving at 300# of tension on the string it has been my experience that the variance under the serving is very very minimal. Even so, it can even be minimized more with the string clamps. I know when I did the serving direction video I had to take a lot of tension off the string before it became obvious that the string was twisting more in front of the serving thread. So perhaps the specialty unit does also mitigate that but honestly I don't think it is a significant issue that it is mitigating. Works great as a sales tool though they are trying to create a perceived value difference between the strings. Hey that's what marketing is all about. You need to be able to convince the buying public that there is a marketable difference between your product and the other guys. In this case there is a shred of truth in there but given a decent build process I doubt you would notice any difference between the two after 50 or 100 shots.


----------



## caspian

cgchris99 said:


> I had one string builder tell me the specialty method allows for more variances in the string twists under the serving since it spins the string and a lot of those using NWspinners clamp the string in place so it cannot twist more as it's served? Thoughts?


at the sorts of serving tension we should all be using, I don't think the difference is significant. the serving is also delivered so smoothly that I suspect it would be a very close comparison in the finished product.

they're different tools for different jobs though. you wouldn't invest in a Speciality server unless you had a lot of strings to build, in which case some of the slower methods really aren't applicable because they just aren't fast enough.


----------



## Binary cam man

HAPPY FATHERS DAY. This is my findings on serving. When I'm hand serving,I can feel the spool getting looser as I go along. Sometimes tighter. I can make adjustments as I go along. For me motorized serving tools are out. But they do work when you need to produce a string in less time. Thanks to all for teaching me how to make my own strings.


----------



## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> HAPPY FATHERS DAY. This is my findings on serving. When I'm hand serving,I can feel the spool getting looser as I go along. Sometimes tighter. I can make adjustments as I go along. For me motorized serving tools are out. But they do work when you need to produce a string in less time. Thanks to all for teaching me how to make my own strings.


I have a few serving tools that I use for different things but at one time have tried them all at end serving and center serving. My little $16 bcy gets loose many times when using it but my bearpaw and beiter can run a 30 inch serving and never need an adjustment. I would expect the same performance using the nwspinner. Maybe some of the guys who have used one will chime in but imo either one of those tools should hold good tension by hand or in a speed server.


----------



## Binary cam man

I don't think it's the serving tools. I think it's how the serving material is wound on the spools that's not consistent.


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Ok guys I have something for you to ponder on and maybe you may want to give it a try. I got a 1/4# spool of black fury that had way to much wax for me. I built up a set of strings black and red, tag end served, twist and stretch to 300#. Well heres where that little thing on top of my head went to spinning. Along with being from Texas and it gets really hot down here I thought about a little heat to get more wax out of the string and simulate summer time down here. I went and stole my wifes heating pad and put a piece of parchment paper around thie string ( so as not to get my but chewed out). I put the heating pad on high and placed it on the string (still at 300#) at one end, left it for a couple minutes and moved pad down string at 2 min increments till I was at the other end. I reburnished the string at this point and pulled gobbs of wax off ththe string. I also noticed the strands had laid down way tighter and each individual strand was hard to see. Slickes string I had ever made. If this is not a good idea speak UP please, Ive got prob 300 shot on strings and not a single problem. Ill post pic of string shortly.


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Here the string after heating pad treatment!


----------



## shinobi3

I've notice with the recent purchase of some fury it has a lot of wax.


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> I've notice with the recent purchase of some fury it has a lot of wax.


Have any of you tried ordering your spools and asking for low wax? I know at one time bcy did this and I think brownell or whoever your ordering from can get it this way.


----------



## shinobi3

I haven't not sure if they offer it


----------



## Huntinsker

Ledbetter Buck said:


> Ok guys I have something for you to ponder on and maybe you may want to give it a try. I got a 1/4# spool of black fury that had way to much wax for me. I built up a set of strings black and red, tag end served, twist and stretch to 300#. Well heres where that little thing on top of my head went to spinning. Along with being from Texas and it gets really hot down here I thought about a little heat to get more wax out of the string and simulate summer time down here. I went and stole my wifes heating pad and put a piece of parchment paper around thie string ( so as not to get my but chewed out). I put the heating pad on high and placed it on the string (still at 300#) at one end, left it for a couple minutes and moved pad down string at 2 min increments till I was at the other end. I reburnished the string at this point and pulled gobbs of wax off ththe string. I also noticed the strands had laid down way tighter and each individual strand was hard to see. Slickes string I had ever made. If this is not a good idea speak UP please, Ive got prob 300 shot on strings and not a single problem. Ill post pic of string shortly.


I don't see it as a problem if it works for you. The heating pad sounds safer than some other heating methods. One thing to remember though, these materials are essentially just very thin fibers of plastics that are woven into a yarn. Too much direct heat can easily damage the fibers. If you keep it just to the point of melting a little more wax out, then I don't see a problem but some heating pads can get pretty hot so make sure not to let it go too long.


----------



## skynight

I have always thought the big secret at the big string makers was smart application of very low heat. Either I'm dead wrong or no one will admit it, but it seems like a good idea to me. I don't know if the heating pad idea is the answer, unless you get one long enough to evenly heat the entire length simultaneously.


----------



## bryanroberts

skynight said:


> I have always thought the big secret at the big string makers was smart application of very low heat. Either I'm dead wrong or no one will admit it, but it seems like a good idea to me. I don't know if the heating pad idea is the answer, unless you get one long enough to evenly heat the entire length simultaneously.


I would be all ears to this cause I've never heard of it. I also do not have a high production string shop. The strings I've made stay tuned with no peep rotation and no fuzzing other than normal wear. I've never used any process other than cutting the wax with a string, burnishing towards the end, and normal wax application once the string is on the bow. Some of the other more experienced builders on here may chime in with a process I've never heard of other than advertising mumbo jumbo used to hype ones build process.


----------



## b0w_bender

bryanroberts said:


> other than advertising mumbo jumbo used to hype ones build process.


I hear that. The mumbo jumbo can be laid on pretty thick and it is rather prevalent in the string building circles. Mostly because they have to some how create a value proposition between their product and the next.


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## Huntinsker

I remember reading where a builder was using heat on their sets of 8125g when they built a lot with that material because it was prone to A LOT of creep if they didn't. Other than that, I've never heard of anyone "needing" heat to get a stable string. If you want to try it and it works for your process, I don't see it as a problem unless it damages the fibers.


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## automan26

bryanroberts talked to me about the possibility of extending the EL-Cheap-O by using a 3-hole plate that he saw in a Unistrut web page. Earlier I posted an orange jig I built using the 4-hole plates. When I was pondering how to use the 4-holers I also saw that there was a bin of 3-hole plates and I nearly went with those instead. I wish now I had. When I went back to Menards to get the 3-holers they were all out so I got the longer plates and cut one hole off the end and built this shorter version of the one I posted a few pages back. This is a sweet jig. All the while I was building it I kept the NW Spinner in mind and made sure that this jig would be tall enough to handle the spinner. The spinner is nearly 4" in diameter. This jig has a 5 1/2" clearance from the string to the strut, so it will handle the spinner just fine. 

I made another slight change to the jig. In place of regular 5/8" nuts I hunted around and found some 5/8" X 2" coupling nuts and installed these where I normally would have used 2" sections of pipe. The nuts worked great and they require less tinkering around in the build process. NOTE: If you want to use the coupling nuts, do not use the ones sold at Home Depot; they are too large in diameter to fit inside the eye bolts.

It seems like every time I get some time off from school I find myself building jigs. My house is starting to fill up with these things.

Automan


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## b0w_bender

That is a really nice looking unit!
It's simple and elegant and totally functional. It really is all you need to make a good string


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## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> bryanroberts talked to me about the possibility of extending the EL-Cheap-O by using a 3-hole plate that he saw in a Unistrut web page. Earlier I posted an orange jig I built using the 4-hole plates. When I was pondering how to use the 4-holers I also saw that there was a bin of 3-hole plates and I nearly went with those instead. I wish now I had. When I went back to Menards to get the 3-holers they were all out so I got the longer plates and cut one hole off the end and built this shorter version of the one I posted a few pages back. This is a sweet jig. All the while I was building it I kept the NW Spinner in mind and made sure that this jig would be tall enough to handle the spinner. The spinner is nearly 4" in diameter. This jig has a 5 1/2" clearance from the string to the strut, so it will handle the spinner just fine.
> 
> I made another slight change to the jig. In place of regular 5/8" nuts I hunted around and found some 5/8" X 2" coupling nuts and installed these where I normally would have used 2" sections of pipe. The nuts worked great and they require less tinkering around in the build process. NOTE: If you want to use the coupling nuts, do not use the ones sold at Home Depot; they are too large in diameter to fit inside the eye bolts.
> 
> It seems like every time I get some time off from school I find myself building jigs. My house is starting to fill up with these things.
> 
> Automan


Hey automan26 that turned out really nice! Looks even better than I thought it would. What size eye bolts did you end up using? It amazes me that you keep improving this jig you came up with. Great job!


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## automan26

bryanroberts said:


> Hey automan26 that turned out really nice! Looks even better than I thought it would. What size eye bolts did you end up using? It amazes me that you keep improving this jig you came up with. Great job!


The eyebolts are 3/8" x 8" cut down 6 1/2". Lately I have been building more jigs than strings.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

That looks great automan! Nice and clean.


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## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> bryanroberts talked to me about the possibility of extending the EL-Cheap-O by using a 3-hole plate that he saw in a Unistrut web page. Earlier I posted an orange jig I built using the 4-hole plates. When I was pondering how to use the 4-holers I also saw that there was a bin of 3-hole plates and I nearly went with those instead. I wish now I had. When I went back to Menards to get the 3-holers they were all out so I got the longer plates and cut one hole off the end and built this shorter version of the one I posted a few pages back. This is a sweet jig. All the while I was building it I kept the NW Spinner in mind and made sure that this jig would be tall enough to handle the spinner. The spinner is nearly 4" in diameter. This jig has a 5 1/2" clearance from the string to the strut, so it will handle the spinner just fine.
> 
> I made another slight change to the jig. In place of regular 5/8" nuts I hunted around and found some 5/8" X 2" coupling nuts and installed these where I normally would have used 2" sections of pipe. The nuts worked great and they require less tinkering around in the build process. NOTE: If you want to use the coupling nuts, do not use the ones sold at Home Depot; they are too large in diameter to fit inside the eye bolts.
> 
> It seems like every time I get some time off from school I find myself building jigs. My house is starting to fill up with these things.
> 
> Automan


. Get those eye bolts off of the coupling nut. LOL. See threads 1918 and 1933.


----------



## Huntinsker

Thought I'd give a little update on one of my Fury strings. I'm switching nocks to the Gold Tip GTO nock and my .021 62xs center serving was too big and made the nock fit too tight with the new nocks. So I took the string off my bow, removed the peep and then measured at 100lbs. The string is EXACTLY THE SAME LENGTH as when I put it on the bow back in October. Dead nuts on 62 1/8". This is my target bow and I'm getting ready for a the state games 900 round in a couple weeks and then the state games of America 900 round later in the summer so I've got a lot of shots through the bow and in pretty high heat already this summer. Needless to say, I'm pretty pleased with that performance.

Here's a picture of it where I took the serving off so you can see that the Flo Orange pins didn't fade at all either.


----------



## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> Thought I'd give a little update on one of my Fury strings. I'm switching nocks to the Gold Tip GTO nock and my .021 62xs center serving was too big and made the nock fit too tight with the new nocks. So I took the string off my bow, removed the peep and then measured at 100lbs. The string is EXACTLY THE SAME LENGTH as when I put it on the bow back in October. Dead nuts on 62 1/8". This is my target bow and I'm getting ready for a the state games 900 round in a couple weeks and then the state games of America 900 round later in the summer so I've got a lot of shots through the bow and in pretty high heat already this summer. Needless to say, I'm pretty pleased with that performance.
> 
> Here's a picture of it where I took the serving off so you can see that the Flo Orange pins didn't fade at all either.
> View attachment 2371570


That's great news. I love using the fury too! I also 
like using the bcy x also. Good luck with the state games!!


----------



## jaik.jaen

Hello


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Thought I'd give a little update on one of my Fury strings. I'm switching nocks to the Gold Tip GTO nock and my .021 62xs center serving was too big and made the nock fit too tight with the new nocks. So I took the string off my bow, removed the peep and then measured at 100lbs. The string is EXACTLY THE SAME LENGTH as when I put it on the bow back in October. Dead nuts on 62 1/8". This is my target bow and I'm getting ready for a the state games 900 round in a couple weeks and then the state games of America 900 round later in the summer so I've got a lot of shots through the bow and in pretty high heat already this summer. Needless to say, I'm pretty pleased with that performance.
> 
> Here's a picture of it where I took the serving off so you can see that the Flo Orange pins didn't fade at all either.
> View attachment 2371570


. Look at the grooves the serving left. There is no way the string is moving under that serving. I hope you can mate the new serving with those grooves. I was serving a string and the serving broke and left me with those grooves. I tried to reserve over it. I didn't like it. It didn't look right. Not even or round. I serve very tightly also. That's why I do very little dewaxing. I know the string is not going to move under the serving. Good luck with the 900. Don't forget some pictures.


----------



## Binary cam man

Mum-bo Jum-bo : websters new world dictionary : meaningless ritual, talk, ect.------------ Really, This is what some of you think? It is sometimes better not to say anything if you don't like something. Or haven't tried it. Some of you think you are the BETTERS. I think you live in the DARK AGES. Please don't respond to this. You have the right to think the way you want. And so do I. I probably won't be back to read it anyway.


----------



## bryanroberts

Binary cam man said:


> Mum-bo Jum-bo : websters new world dictionary : meaningless ritual, talk, ect.------------ Really, This is what some of you think? It is sometimes better not to say anything if you don't like something. Or haven't tried it. Some of you think you are the BETTERS. I think you live in the DARK AGES. Please don't respond to this. You have the right to think the way you want. And so do I. I probably won't be back to read it anyway.


I think you REALLY missed the meaning or the point of what was being said here. There are some string companies that come up with phrases like cold wax fusion or one I read yesterday "fiber aligner" that said they stretch at 800 lbs to align the fibers for a no fuzz build. These statements and processes are completely fabricated and mumbo jumbo used to hype ones build process like I said the first time. It wasn't a personal attack on any one company as I didn't say any names. I'm not sure where your going with this or even why but I assure you that me or bow bender were not attacking anyone. The best statement you said was "it is sometimes better not to say anything if you don't like something". I'm just sorry you don't practice what you preach!


----------



## bryanroberts

I see absolutely no problem with any of the above mentioned waxing process and that's not what we were talking about when I said" advertising mumbo jumbo". I welcome every process that someone uses because I am very new to string building and I am not an expert, novice, heck I'm barely a beginner. I love that we can all come up with ways of doing things and post the results. That's what this thread is about and what I said had nothing to do with any individuals on this thread. I really think you took this wrong and I apologize to everyone if I had a brain fart and said something I shouldn't have.


----------



## b0w_bender

bryanroberts said:


> I see absolutely no problem with any of the above mentioned waxing process and that's not what we were talking about when I said" advertising mumbo jumbo". I welcome every process that someone uses because I am very new to string building and I am not an expert, novice, heck I'm barely a beginner. I love that we can all come up with ways of doing things and post the results. That's what this thread is about and what I said had nothing to do with any individuals on this thread. I really think you took this wrong and I apologize to everyone if I had a brain fart and said something I shouldn't have.


I'll just assume that *binary cam man* misunderstood your point or jumped to an errant conclusion. I 'm certain what you and I said is 100% factual, anyone who thinks advertizing and marketing doesn't include a ton of mumbo jumbo is deluded. This goes for all markets not just string building.

If *Binary cam man* is just trying to get a rise out of someone then perhaps my suggestion would be, that we not feed the trolls.


----------



## bryanroberts

Anyway..Let's get back on track here. I discovered something that helped me alot and everyone might already do this but just in case there is one person that has had this issue this might help. After putting in the required twists and checking/setting tension to 300 lbs, my next step has always been to burnish the string. I started having a small problem or two with fury, after serving, when I would need to put a couple twists in or out. Fury makes a beautiful, almost plastic looking cord when finished but if you have to upset that by adding or taking away twists it doesn't look so pretty. So I started skipping the burnishing all together until I was completely done serving the string and checking final measurement. Now my strings look perfect when I put them in a package. I always made sure to follow my routine in order when making strings and didn't realize this one step would make it easier for me. It's not so much of an issue when using 452x or even x but it was for me with fury.


----------



## soldier1265

Anyone know what the finished diameter is for a Prime?


----------



## bryanroberts

soldier1265 said:


> Anyone know what the finished diameter is for a Prime?


hopefully someone on here will know before then but I can tell you Monday morning. There's one hanging at my friends shop he just made a set of strings for. I know he used something small like .007 serving to fit the cam grooves.


----------



## bryanroberts

Flo green and white with black pins looks alot better than I thought it would!


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

soldier1265 said:


> Anyone know what the finished diameter is for a Prime?


I think they spec at .108 or less.


----------



## automan26

bryanroberts said:


> View attachment 2391818
> Flo green and white with black pins looks alot better than I thought it would!


Sweet string. What brand of material did you use?

Automan


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> Sweet string. What brand of material did you use?
> 
> Automan


I wish I could take credit for this one! A friend of mine asked me to make him this string and at first I thought it wouldn't look very good but after seeing the pic I thought I would post it cause it is different but looks good. I'm not sure what material it is in the pic.


----------



## soldier1265

NoDeerInIowa said:


> I think they spec at .108 or less.


Thanks


----------



## bryanroberts

Just got done with this one for my friend. He ended up going with flo orange(instead of white) flo green with black pin..


----------



## shinobi3

bryanroberts said:


> View attachment 2391818
> Flo green and white with black pins looks alot better than I thought it would!


I was gonna do this for my turbo.... Still may... Didn't really like how the other colors turned out


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> I was gonna do this for my turbo.... Still may... Didn't really like how the other colors turned out


which colors did you try?


----------



## shinobi3




----------



## bryanroberts

Has anyone found any of the Chinese line that performs similiar to halo .014?


----------



## AzizaVFR

Yes.



I use this with a Bearclaw serving jig with about 18lbs of tension on the line while serving.


----------



## skynight

bryanroberts said:


> Has anyone found any of the Chinese line that performs similiar to halo .014?


The 8 braid 40# like in post 2615 is the same diameter and indistinguishable from .014 halo to me. I bought the 50# and it was noticeably thicker. White goes on clear, slightly cloudier than halo. After clarifier applied it looks the same.
I bought 20# and #10 for end loop, currently using 10#.


----------



## bryanroberts

skynight said:


> The 8 braid 40# like in post 2615 is the same diameter and indistinguishable from .014 halo to me. I bought the 50# and it was noticeably thicker. White goes on clear, slightly cloudier than halo. After clarifier applied it looks the same.
> I bought 20# and #10 for end loop, currently using 10#.


Sounds good. I guess I'm going to have to break down and give it a try. You can get halo price down to 7 to 8 dollars a spool but you have to buy a pound of it at a time and I just can't do that right now.


----------



## bryanroberts

How much of the clarifier do you end up using on like a single cam string using the white Chinese line. Does it put a noticeable dent in your tube?


----------



## skynight

bryanroberts said:


> How much of the clarifier do you end up using on like a single cam string using the white Chinese line. Does it put a noticeable dent in your tube?


No, very little.


----------



## automan26

*Dumb-Da-Dumb-Dumb----Dumb!!!!!!!!!!*

I just finished an awesome string set for a friend's Mathews MQ1. It was 452X green and silver with a black pinstripe. The servings were perfect, the length was perfect and when sunlight hit it, it really popped. Before handing it over I decided to put a few arrows through it, just to make sure everything was as perfect as I thought. After a couple shots I discovered that I could have done a better job serving in the peep so I went to work and got it served up nice and tight. I was careful melting the tag ends because I once screwed up a Mathews string melting the tags, but I was not careful enough. You guessed it--I singed a strand and ruined a beautiful 96" string after shooting less than 10 arrows. Stupid is as stupid does.

Automan


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> I just finished an awesome string set for a friend's Mathews MQ1. It was 452X green and silver with a black pinstripe. The servings were perfect, the length was perfect and when sunlight hit it, it really popped. Before handing it over I decided to put a few arrows through it, just to make sure everything was as perfect as I thought. After a couple shots I discovered that I could have done a better job serving in the peep so I went to work and got it served up nice and tight. I was careful melting the tag ends because I once screwed up a Mathews string melting the tags, but I was not careful enough. You guessed it--I singed a strand and ruined a beautiful 96" string after shooting less than 10 arrows. Stupid is as stupid does.
> 
> Automan


Did it just discolor the string or do you have to throw it away?


----------



## automan26

bryanroberts said:


> Did it just discolor the string or do you have to throw it away?


It burned clean thru one strand and faster than you could ever believe.

Automan


----------



## jameswk

automan26 said:


> It burned clean thru one strand and faster than you could ever believe.
> 
> Automan


Been there... Also done it putting on speed nocks with the shink wrap.... Left the heat on it a second to long.... I can't go right back to building another one after that I'm to enraged... I messed one up one time and went right back to building its replacement... Well I was so mad I built a string with 48 strands all the way to the stretching point before I noticed man this thing is thick!.... So I have to agree automan stupid is as stupid does...[emoji20]


----------



## shinobi3

Yikes.


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> It burned clean thru one strand and faster than you could ever believe.
> 
> Automan


That sux!:BangHead:


----------



## Praeger

bryanroberts said:


> Has anyone found any of the Chinese line that performs similiar to halo .014?


This is the U.S. manufactured product, Power Pro braided fishing line. The 50 lbs line is .014". I buy mine from ebay, you can get a 150 yards for $12. The white acts like white 3D or Halo. I use mineral oil as clarifier.

http://www.powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/power_pro_v2/info/powerpro_superline.html


----------



## shinobi3

So changed my mind and made a green/white/ blk pin....


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> So changed my mind and made a green/white/ blk pin....


Sweet!! I like those colors together.


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks ..Yeah I like it a lot better than the other


----------



## jameswk

shinobi3 said:


> So changed my mind and made a green/white/ blk pin....


Nice👍


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks...enjoying that jig??


----------



## skynight

Praeger said:


> This is the U.S. manufactured product, Power Pro braided fishing line. The 50 lbs line is .014". I buy mine from ebay, you can get a 150 yards for $12. The white acts like white 3D or Halo. I use mineral oil as clarifier.
> 
> http://www.powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/power_pro_v2/info/powerpro_superline.html


The Chinese 8 strand 50# is thicker than the .014 halo. The 40# is the same diameter. The published diameters show the 50# to be the same diameter but the real life product is thicker.


----------



## bryanroberts

skynight said:


> The Chinese 8 strand 50# is thicker than the .014 halo. The 40# is the same diameter. The published diameters show the 50# to be the same diameter but the real life product is thicker.


Well I'm definetly going to order some to try, as cheap as it is its worth it. Especially for the other colors besides white to me. I have some white halo for now but if it works almost as good as bcy's white then I'll try it too.


----------



## jameswk

shinobi3 said:


> Thanks...enjoying that jig??


Oh yeah... So awesome


----------



## raleigh8605

Praeger said:


> This is the U.S. manufactured product, Power Pro braided fishing line. The 50 lbs line is .014". I buy mine from ebay, you can get a 150 yards for $12. The white acts like white 3D or Halo. I use mineral oil as clarifier.
> 
> http://www.powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/power_pro_v2/info/powerpro_superline.html


How well does the mineral oil work as a clarifier? Have any pics of it to share. I thought about trying it a while back but was worried about trying it. I wasn't sure if it would deteriorate the strings or decrease there longevity. Anybody know?


----------



## shinobi3

Like to know as well


----------



## olliedog

It's too hot round here to sleep. But the basement is cool... And the string jig was just sitting there looking neglected. Got a new string laid out and ready to twist up tomorrow. Hope its the one that'll bring me some luck this fall. BCY-X, 22 strands, all tan. I might be crazy but solid seemed like good idea and no frills is my approach this year. Will post the results. Happy fourth.


----------



## shinobi3

Sounds good


----------



## bryanroberts

You guys that use the red and black label Chinese line in the 40 lb.. How does it hold on lower buss cables compared to halo? I've heard from a very reputable builder on here that it's too slick and will seperate so I thought I would ask people who have used it. Also this is just my opinion but I have had good luck using liquid lok on white/clear halo as a clarifier and you get the added benefit of the lok.


----------



## bryanroberts

I accidentally ordered 1 small roll of the Chinese line in 4 strand instead of the 8. Has anyone used any of the 4 strand and is there any use for it?


----------



## Purka

The 4 strand grips better than the 8 strand and clears just as nice.


----------



## bryanroberts

Purka said:


> The 4 strand grips better than the 8 strand and clears just as nice.


That's good to hear. I didn't know that so I definetly appreciate the answer!


----------



## b0w_bender

olliedog said:


> It's too hot round here to sleep. But the basement is cool... And the string jig was just sitting there looking neglected. Got a new string laid out and ready to twist up tomorrow. Hope its the one that'll bring me some luck this fall. BCY-X, 22 strands, all tan. I might be crazy but solid seemed like good idea and no frills is my approach this year. Will post the results. Happy fourth.


I hear ya brother! After I did a few pinstripe strings and got them on the bow I came to the conclusion that for me the effort is definitely not worth the results. I've gotten to the point where I don't even bother with the 2 color strings most of the time. One color solid get it done and go shoot. On my target rig I make one cable one color and one cable the second color and then I do a dual color string. That is as fancy as I get the hunting bow is simply the one color brown speckle.

I know this is a crappy photo but you get the idea


----------



## automan26

b0w_bender said:


> I hear ya brother! After I did a few pinstripe strings and got them on the bow I came to the conclusion that for me the effort is definitely not worth the results. I've gotten to the point where I don't even bother with the 2 color strings most of the time. One color solid get it done and go shoot. On my target rig I make one cable one color and one cable the second color and then I do a dual color string. That is as fancy as I get the hunting bow is simply the one color brown speckle.
> 
> I know this is a crappy photo but you get the idea
> View attachment 2440514


Sometimes less IS more.

Automan


----------



## automan26

This is a pic of my setup for transferring fishing line from the large fishing line spool to the serving spool on my serving jig. Some have been asking about how I do it, so I decided to post it up. The lock nut and washer assembly on top is identical to what is under the large spool and out of sight in the pic. By adjusting the tension of the lock nuts I can control the amount of drag I need for insuring a tight string transfer from spool to spool. The small spool on the drill is bolted down tightly to the 5/16" carriage bolt running down the center. 

In the pic you can see a serving tool with fishing line that I transferred previously using this setup. Although it may not look like it in the pic, the fishing line in the serving tool is very tight and hard as a rock to the touch.

Automan


----------



## jameswk

Very cool


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> This is a pic of my setup for transferring fishing line from the large fishing line spool to the serving spool on my serving jig. Some have been asking about how I do it, so I decided to post it up. The lock nut and washer assembly on top is identical to what is under the large spool and out of sight in the pic. By adjusting the tension of the lock nuts I can control the amount of drag I need for insuring a tight string transfer from spool to spool. The small spool on the drill is bolted down tightly to the 5/16" carriage bolt running down the center.
> 
> In the pic you can see a serving tool with fishing line that I transferred previously using this setup. Although it may not look like it in the pic, the fishing line in the serving tool is very tight and hard as a rock to the touch.
> 
> Automan


Very nice! Do you have to try and put it on the smaller spool in the same direction it comes off the big spool or does it seem to matter?


----------



## automan26

It really doesn't matter as long as you get it tight.

Automan


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> It really doesn't matter as long as you get it tight.
> 
> Automan


cool! Thanks for sharing the idea. Looks good!


----------



## tered

So how am i doing.


----------



## bryanroberts

tered said:


> So how am i doing.
> View attachment 2455026


Looking good!!


----------



## automan26

Perfect so far. I am anxious to see the finished product.

Automan


----------



## shinobi3

My son pick out some colors for his future ruckus jr


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> My son pick out some colors for his future ruckus jr


sweet! you went fancier than I did. I let my 5 yr old twist up a blue and black for his little bear bow! That should be advertising for the el-cheapo!! Even a five yr old can use it! lol


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks


----------



## n2bows

Does anyone have a chart or formula for what length you need to set you post at to get the desired length string? And the number of twist you need to put in the string?


----------



## SamT

Basically, there is a chart/formula (http://nwspinner.com/index.php/adjusting-for-twists-and-stretch), but, because every builder uses a slightly different method the formula will need to be modified to suit each builder. Because of this, it is suggested that once you learn or chose a method, you build a 30",60", and 90" set of strings to see what kind of modifications you would need to make to your formula.


----------



## n2bows

Thanks


----------



## bowenginerd

great string builder


----------



## jameswk

so this is gold. Its the first time I've used it it's really a sweet looking color when it wraps right it clears out a bit like some of the lighter colors pretty neat. I like how it contrasts with the purple.


----------



## bryanroberts

jameswk said:


> View attachment 2480746
> so this is gold. Its the first time I've used it it's really a sweet looking color when it wraps right it clears out a bit like some of the lighter colors pretty neat. I like how it contrasts with the purple.
> View attachment 2480754


Looks good!!!


----------



## kings child

When you talk about serving in the right direction and serving toward the jig post, wouldn't the serving tool be going away from you serving over the top at each end? The string's top loop serving would be going counter clockwise to the string twist while the string's bottom loop serving would be going clockwise with the string's twist? I don't understand how one serving over the top of the string going toward the post would be coming toward you and one would be going away from you when you are serving toward both posts.


----------



## bryanroberts

Think of it with the string in front of you running from left to right. You don't have to go toward the loop, you can start at the loop and go away. Some find it easier to go towards the loop but it's personal preference. No matter what direction you go you want the serving to tighten the twists of the string. You can physically twist the string with your fingers so that it tightens the twist and that will show you what direction you want the serving tool to rotate. I hope this is helpful if not nwspinner has a youtube video showing how to on serving direction. Good luck!


----------



## tenzing

I am having problem.when i built the strings the string twist looks perfect. But when i put it up on the bow some how the twist is much less. I fell i am doing something wrong while twisting and serving. 
I stand behind the twister/stretcher and twist my bundle clockwise and also serve it clockwise. In other words if my twister/stretcher is on my right and the other post on my left, I twist the bundle away from me and also serve both the ends away from me. Am i doing it wrong.Should i be serving the right end of string away from me and the left end towards me. Please help


----------



## automan26

Here is the easiest way to get your direction of serving correct:
1. Serving towards the loop-- Stand so you can sight down the string in the direction of the loop you will be serving to. Visualize the direction the post would move in order to add twists to the string. When serving toward the loop, rotate your serving jig in the opposite direction of post rotation as observed from the string side of the post.

2. Serving away from the loop--Serve in the same direction that the post would turn to add twists.

Toward the loop--Opposite direction of post rotation.
Away from the loop--Same direction as post rotation.

Automan


----------



## jhinaz

tenzing said:


> Should i be serving the right end of string away from me and the left end towards me. Please help


I got this drawing off ArcheryTalk some time ago but I don't remember who the author was. - John
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1011978&d=1297367036


----------



## tenzing

jhinaz said:


> I got this drawing off ArcheryTalk some time ago but I don't remember who the author was. - John
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1011978&d=1297367036


thank you sir.


----------



## skynight

I've said it a bunch of times, but here is the easiest way to remember which way to serve:

Twist clockwise. Serve away from either post, clockwise.


Thats it. No matter where you are on the jig, you are serving away from one of the posts.

Heres a complication for you though: When backserving the tag ends to close the loop, tie away from the post counterclockwise. This causes the serving to wrap the knot tighter rather than loosen it when you serve the ends.


----------



## tenzing

skynight said:


> I've said it a bunch of times, but here is the easiest way to remember which way to serve:
> 
> Twist clockwise. Serve away from either post, clockwise.
> 
> 
> Thats it. No matter where you are on the jig, you are serving away from one of the posts.
> 
> Heres a complication for you though: When backserving the tag ends to close the loop, tie away from the post counterclockwise. This causes the serving to wrap the knot tighter rather than loosen it when you serve the ends.


what about the center serving. is it the same?


----------



## skynight

tenzing said:


> what about the center serving. is it the same?


Yes. Center serving, peep serving, string stop serving, end serving. Just figure out which post you are moving away from, serve clockwise away from it. Works as long as you initially twisted the string/cable clockwise.


----------



## b0w_bender

The whole description of which direction to serve has always been a nightmare to try and explain via the written word.
I know this was posted before but to save the search here it is again.


----------



## n2bows

Can you guys recommend a good string building video? On DVD or Youtube.


----------



## tered

Are string weights required if the bow came with them? I want to replace a set of strings but do not have the weights or know how to get then in the right locations? Any thoughts


----------



## Sinister01

n2bows said:


> Can you guys recommend a good string building video? On DVD or Youtube.


deezlin has one that he sells and I think Lancaster also has one.


----------



## bryanroberts

n2bows said:


> Can you guys recommend a good string building video? On DVD or Youtube.


2x_ lung has a pinstripe video on youtube but it doesn't have serving..


----------



## bryanroberts

tered said:


> Are string weights required if the bow came with them? I want to replace a set of strings but do not have the weights or know how to get then in the right locations? Any thoughts


What bow do you need the speed nock locations for?


----------



## tered

Bow madness 34


----------



## bryanroberts

tered said:


> Bow madness 34


If it had them on the bottom only then it takes 3 speed nocks starting at 16.75 from the loop. 
If it has them on top I will need year model and what cam it has.


----------



## tered

I will look tonight but they are top and bottom. Thanks.


----------



## tered

This is my top cam.


----------



## tered

This is my btm cam


----------



## tenzing

Alright! I realized that i was serving the bundle in the wrong direction. If i am standing in between the posts with the stretcher/twister,to my right, i was serving both the end servings away from me and that was the reason why my twists were untwisting when i had them on the bow. Thank you everyone for your help.


----------



## bryanroberts

tenzing said:


> Alright! I realized that i was serving the bundle in the wrong direction. If i am standing in between the posts with the stretcher/twister,to my right, i was serving both the end servings away from me and that was the reason why my twists were untwisting when i had them on the bow. Thank you everyone for your help.


Good deal! I'm glad you figured it out!


----------



## bryanroberts

tered said:


> Are string weights required if the bow came with them? I want to replace a set of strings but do not have the weights or know how to get then in the right locations? Any thoughts


About the most speed increase I have heard of is 5 to 6 fps with speed nocks. I'm sure there are exceptions. You are not required to replace them if they came with them. To the ultimate speed freaks who chrono everything wanting every last fps they can get its important. Me personally I'm fine with it I lost a lot more than that switching to a heavier gpi arrow. I have asked some people who might know the exact measurement for the speed nocks. If they are still on the string then you can measure yourself starting from the loop or where the string comes off the cam as along as it's repeatable. There are several different types that you can choose from.


----------



## tered

Thanks. I am not onto speed for I do jot have a chronograph. I have the ot2 program for my tapes. I did not know if they truly added anything for I have read that by adding string silencers you loose speed also. I have made a new set of strings for my older bow and it shoots 100% faster and much better groups. The BM34 has factory strings and they have got to go.. Thanks again.


----------



## jameswk

b0w_bender said:


> The whole description of which direction to serve has always been a nightmare to try and explain via the written word.
> I know this was posted before but to save the search here it is again.


is it just me or is your string here twisted counter clockwise?


----------



## b0w_bender

jameswk said:


> is it just me or is your string here twisted counter clockwise?


Does it matter?
If you think it does I would like to hear why, that would be good for at least three more pages of heated discussion.  

- here let me get that discussion started if I were a left handed finger shooter and the string rolled off my fingers in the opposite direction then that of right handed shooter, should the twist be different? (he said with a bit of satire and sarcasm) 

Clockwise twists are simply a convention not a requirement. What is important is exactly what I said in the video that as the thread wraps over the string it tightens the twists in the strands under it.


----------



## jameswk

It matters to serving direction. I only caught that as I watched you serve and thought to myself he's serving that differently than I would headed that direction. That's when I looked and thought he knows what he's doing that string is twisted differently right?


----------



## olliedog

I'm glad this topic of serving direction came up again. Just the other night as I finished my cable on a new set I suddenly realized I was serving the last section the wrong way. Or was I serving the final section correctly and all the previous the wrong way? Arghh. Woke up to see the topic being discussed again the next day and I was happy to verify that I only bungled the final serving, whew. Thanks for the video bowbender. That cleared it up for me. Hopefully for good.


----------



## bryanroberts

I used to have to grab the string with my fingers where i was planning on starting my serving and twist a little to see which way tightened so I would know which way to wrap. Now after making alot of strings and cables always the same way it just became second nature to walk up measure and start cause its always the same.


----------



## caspian

b0w_bender said:


> Clockwise twists are simply a convention not a requirement. What is important is exactly what I said in the video that as the thread wraps over the string it tightens the twists in the strands under it.


if you grab the string in the middle and twist, you're always going to increase twist in one end, untwist the other. 

you're serving that string backwards to the way I do it. if you add twists to the string to shorten it, you are loosening the serving. it doesn't matter if you twist one direction or the other, but you do need to serve in the right direction for the twists. strings rarely get shorter in use, the norm is to add twists.


----------



## deerbum

I made this string for my Insanity and increased yoke length from 6" to 8". My calculations said to decrease the cable length by about 1/20", seemed to work fine. I made a excel spreadsheet to calculate leg lengths. if anyone is interested in it send me a pm. Jeff


----------



## b0w_bender

caspian said:


> if you grab the string in the middle and twist, you're always going to increase twist in one end, untwist the other.
> 
> you're serving that string backwards to the way I do it. if you add twists to the string to shorten it, you are loosening the serving. it doesn't matter if you twist one direction or the other, but you do need to serve in the right direction for the twists. strings rarely get shorter in use, the norm is to add twists.


Caspian I'm going to have to disagree, what I said in the video is absolutely correct. it makes absolutely no difference which way you twist your string so long as when you are serving you tighten the underlying strands as you wrap over them. If your serving isn't doing that, then you will get peep rotation and the string will start to curl almost the moment you take it off the stretcher. I have experimented with clockwise and counter clockwise and I am convinced that it makes no difference between clockwise or counter clockwise. I have read every single forum thread about thread serving direction both here and on the arrows and strings and dozens of the pro-builders have agreed and thanked me for the video. You are welcome to serve yours any way you want but my experience and a lot of other peoples experiences have pointed to the way I described it as being the way you will want to setup your build process to minimize peep rotation and string instability.


----------



## bryanroberts

^^^^
100% correct!


----------



## deerbum

I'm having trouble emailing the excel sheet so here's the formula for anyone interested.
B1= CURRENT CABLE LENGTH
B2= CURRENT YOKE LEG LENGTH
B3= YOKE SPREAD
B4= NEW YOKE LEG LENGTH

New cable length =ROUND(B1-B2+SQRT(POWER(B2,2)-POWER(B3/2,2))+B4-SQRT(POWER(B4,2)-POWER(B3/2,2)),2)


----------



## shinobi3

What weight scale are you guys using for your jigs?


----------



## Allan Hogan

b0w_bender said:


> Caspian I'm going to have to disagree, what I said in the video is absolutely correct. it makes absolutely no difference which way you twist your string so long as when you are serving you tighten the underlying strands as you wrap over them. If your serving isn't doing that, then you will get peep rotation and the string will start to curl almost the moment you take it off the stretcher. I have experimented with clockwise and counter clockwise and I am convinced that it makes no difference between clockwise or counter clockwise. I have read every single forum thread about thread serving direction both here and on the arrows and strings and dozens of the pro-builders have agreed and thanked me for the video. You are welcome to serve yours any way you want but my experience and a lot of other peoples experiences have pointed to the way I described it as being the way you will want to setup your build process to minimize peep rotation and string instability.[/QUOTE
> 
> Must be different in Australia. I've been winding the serving on so that adding twists to the string, tightens the serving, not so that the serving tightens the string twist. Works for me and will continue doing it that way. Winding as you suggest will loosen the serving if you add twists to the string.


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> This is a pic of my setup for transferring fishing line from the large fishing line spool to the serving spool on my serving jig. Some have been asking about how I do it, so I decided to post it up. The lock nut and washer assembly on top is identical to what is under the large spool and out of sight in the pic. By adjusting the tension of the lock nuts I can control the amount of drag I need for insuring a tight string transfer from spool to spool. The small spool on the drill is bolted down tightly to the 5/16" carriage bolt running down the center.
> 
> In the pic you can see a serving tool with fishing line that I transferred previously using this setup. Although it may not look like it in the pic, the fishing line in the serving tool is very tight and hard as a rock to the touch.
> 
> Automan


Very Nice! I've been gone a while, got really busy with school work and preparing for some tournaments. Glad the thread is still moving right a long. Really like the look of this set up to transfer material. Looks like it would get the job done very nicely.


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> What weight scale are you guys using for your jigs?


I have a 550lb dial scale that I use to check it periodically.


----------



## shinobi3

Do you have a link


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> Do you have a link


Not to the exact one that I have, it was cabela's brand that I got while they were being discontinued. If you type in "550lb dial scale" in google shopping, you'll get a lot of them. They are all basically identical, probably made by the same company. The only thing that may be different is the wording and marks on the dial face.


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> Do you have a link


I have a scale I got from eBay on sale for 8 dollars. It's called power hang by do it all outdoors. It goes to 440 lbs. Probably not as nice as alot of people have but I had to find something real cheap. It works real good though. I only used it twice. Once to check the spring on my string jig and another time I checked it again to see that the numbers remained the same.


----------



## bryanroberts

bryanroberts said:


> I have a scale I got from eBay on sale for 8 dollars. It's called power hang by do it all outdoors. It goes to 440 lbs. Probably not as nice as alot of people have but I had to find something real cheap. It works real good though. I only used it twice. Once to check the spring on my string jig and another time I checked it again to see that the numbers remained the same.


----------



## shinobi3

Thanks for the replies


----------



## bryanroberts

Red, gray, black pins for a baseball coach at a local community college.


----------



## automan26

More and more I am beginning to like Gray. It seems to make any color it is used with really pop. Great job. You are getting great results from that El-Cheap-o.

Automan


----------



## tenzing

what would be the alternative braided material to halo for the cable ends which would be lighter on the wallet but as good..anyone??


----------



## bryanroberts

tenzing said:


> what would be the alternative braided material to halo for the cable ends which would be lighter on the wallet but as good..anyone??


I just finished last night trying the red and black label Chinese line (white/clear) that is coming from ebay. To be honest when I got it and sat it next to halo I had to get a magnifying glass to look because they look identical. I haven't broke out the micrometers yet but I think the Chinese line I got is barely thicker. It also went on as tight and nice as halo except it was slightly cloudy compared to halo. Still clear just not as clear. I'm thinking because it's slightly larger diameter if I went down one size the cloudy would clear up. I don't know how long it's going to last or how well it will hold up on tight mod bends but I used liquid lok just in case. Some of the guys that have been using it can probably answer as far as how it lasts. The price difference per spool is staggering. It's like 3 bucks for 120 yards!!


----------



## shinobi3

Bryan what poundage did you you use


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> Bryan what poundage did you you use


The Chinese line was 40lb. I ran a comparison on a test string with halo, bullwhip, and the Chinese line. I was going to post up the results but I might wait till I get some 30 lb and try it.


----------



## shinobi3

That looks good. They have black


----------



## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> That looks good. They have black


Oh yah. Red black white green blue all kinds of colors. Go to ebay and put in a search for spectra braid. It's the one with a red and black label


----------



## Allan Hogan

Allan Hogan said:


> b0w_bender said:
> 
> 
> 
> Caspian I'm going to have to disagree, what I said in the video is absolutely correct. it makes absolutely no difference which way you twist your string so long as when you are serving you tighten the underlying strands as you wrap over them. If your serving isn't doing that, then you will get peep rotation and the string will start to curl almost the moment you take it off the stretcher. I have experimented with clockwise and counter clockwise and I am convinced that it makes no difference between clockwise or counter clockwise. I have read every single forum thread about thread serving direction both here and on the arrows and strings and dozens of the pro-builders have agreed and thanked me for the video. You are welcome to serve yours any way you want but my experience and a lot of other peoples experiences have pointed to the way I described it as being the way you will want to setup your build process to minimize peep rotation and string instability.[/QUOTE
> 
> Must be different in Australia. I've been winding the serving on so that adding twists to the string, tightens the serving, not so that the serving tightens the string twist. Works for me and will continue doing it that way. Winding as you suggest will loosen the serving if you add twists to the string.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just a bit confused by this serving direction discussion. In all the years I've been winding strings, I have placed the serving on ,such that adding twists to the string will tighten the serving. I've never had a problem with either serving stability or peep rotation. this is the only web site I've visited that "actively" promotes winding against the grain of the string twist. Even the Easton web site tells you to wind the serving such that adding twists will tighten the serving. Professional archery shops I've followed say the same. see link "https://vimeo.com/108683197". I can't comprehend how going the other way is supposed to improve anything. There seems to be no Data describing why it works, only statements like "It's 100% correct". Can someone please enlighten me?
Click to expand...


----------



## Huntinsker

Allan Hogan said:


> Allan Hogan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just a bit confused by this serving direction discussion. In all the years I've been winding strings, I have placed the serving on ,such that adding twists to the string will tighten the serving. I've never had a problem with either serving stability or peep rotation. this is the only web site I've visited that "actively" promotes winding against the grain of the string twist. Even the Easton web site tells you to wind the serving such that adding twists will tighten the serving. Professional archery shops I've followed say the same. see link "https://vimeo.com/108683197". I can't comprehend how going the other way is supposed to improve anything. There seems to be no Data describing why it works, only statements like "It's 100% correct". Can someone please enlighten me?
> 
> 
> 
> Semantics. You're saying the same thing in a different way. I think we can all agree that if you do it the wrong way, you'll see very poor results. One of the first strings I ever made, I used white halo for clear end servings. On one of the ends I wasn't paying close enough attention and I served it the wrong way. When I installed it on the bow, every shot you could literally see the twist move from under the serving as it was being forced to the nonserved areas of the string. It was kind of wild.
> 
> No matter how you say it, you must serve in the correct direction of rotation and the correct direction of travel. If you don't you will not have good results. That part is 100% black and white. It's either right or it's wrong. How you say it doesn't matter as long as you understand it.
Click to expand...


----------



## b0w_bender

Huntinsker said:


> Allan Hogan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Semantics. You're saying the same thing in a different way. I think we can all agree that if you do it the wrong way, you'll see very poor results. One of the first strings I ever made, I used white halo for clear end servings. On one of the ends I wasn't paying close enough attention and I served it the wrong way. When I installed it on the bow, every shot you could literally see the twist move from under the serving as it was being forced to the nonserved areas of the string. It was kind of wild.
> 
> No matter how you say it, you must serve in the correct direction of rotation and the correct direction of travel. If you don't you will not have good results. That part is 100% black and white. It's either right or it's wrong. How you say it doesn't matter as long as you understand it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes on my you tube channel you said that the Specialty archery video was serving the opposite of what I was saying. I watched the video and they are indeed doing it the same way I do. This is why I too think we are saying the same thing. I think what is catching you is that you have followed a very wrote process of serving in a very specific direction with a specific twist. So when you see it done differently it seems wrong. I think if you actually went out to your shop and tested it you would find that we're talking the same thing.
> 
> Let me know if you want to setup a skype video chat so we can compare methodologies.
Click to expand...


----------



## tenzing

Need help. I am doing my first pin stripe with bcyx 10-4-10. I just finished doing a control cable. Now how do i do the buss cable?


----------



## bryanroberts

tenzing said:


> Need help. I am doing my first pin stripe with bcyx 10-4-10. I just finished doing a control cable. Now how do i do the buss cable?


PM sent


----------



## Allan Hogan

b0w_bender said:


> Huntinsker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes on my you tube channel you said that the Specialty archery video was serving the opposite of what I was saying. I watched the video and they are indeed doing it the same way I do. This is why I too think we are saying the same thing. I think what is catching you is that you have followed a very wrote process of serving in a very specific direction with a specific twist. So when you see it done differently it seems wrong. I think if you actually went out to your shop and tested it you would find that we're talking the same thing.
> 
> Let me know if you want to setup a skype video chat so we can compare methodologies.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you believe he's serving the same way as you then I'm a monkey's uncle. He's clearly serving with the twist where you are serving across the twist. He actually states in the video to serve following the candy stripe. You state that the the twist will tighten in front of the direction of serving which his clearly doesn't and wouldn't if you are serving with the string twist. I am a retired lab scientist and trained to assess evidence. I've been making strings for longer than I care to remember and this is not a matter of semantics. I believe you are incorrect in you video, and no amount of brush off will change that. "end of sermon".
Click to expand...


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## bryanroberts

in this picture of a test string I made if you look at it just like it is in the picture you must serve from the left to the right going towards the top of the pic. The string twists must tighten in front of the serving tool. This does not follow the candy stripe.If you followed the stripe you would loosen the twists causing major issues.


----------



## bryanroberts

Sometimes it's hard to put another person's text into your mind and it mean the same thing to you as they were saying. One easy way to me is if you twist the string clockwise when your building it, then all serving no matter up, down, left, right, towards, or away from the loop, must be done clockwise..it doesn't matter where you are standing or what direction you want to go, do all your serving clockwise.


----------



## redyak3

bryanroberts said:


> Sometimes it's hard to put another person's text into your mind and it mean the same thing to you as they were saying. One easy way to me is if you twist the string clockwise when your building it, then all serving no matter up, down, left, right, towards, or away from the loop, must be done clockwise..it doesn't matter where you are standing or what direction you want to go, do all your serving clockwise.


This is exactly my method as well... 
Fantastic how this thread has grown and florished. I haven't needed to make a set for a long time, Fury really holds up well. There's some really impressive work being done here. Thank you Automan for sharing the El-cheapo deluxe and answering my questions so long ago. Thanks Huntinsker for having the where-with-all to start this thread and sharing your knowledge and experiences, as well as all the other people who has shared their knowledge and skill along the way.


----------



## Allan Hogan

bryanroberts said:


> Sometimes it's hard to put another person's text into your mind and it mean the same thing to you as they were saying. One easy way to me is if you twist the string clockwise when your building it, then all serving no matter up, down, left, right, towards, or away from the loop, must be done clockwise..it doesn't matter where you are standing or what direction you want to go, do all your serving clockwise.


One last try! If you twist clockwise from, let's say the bottom loop and serve clockwise away from that loop, you will be serving across the grain of the twist. If you serve clockwise toward that loop, you will be serving with the grain of the twist. This is why saying clockwise has no meaning without a reference direction. The one genuine consideration is that adding twists to tune the string should tighten the serving, NOT tend loosen the serving.
Bowbenders video is wrong!


----------



## bryanroberts

Allan Hogan said:


> One last try! If you twist clockwise from, let's say the bottom loop and serve clockwise away from that loop, you will be serving across the grain of the twist. If you serve clockwise toward that loop, you will be serving with the grain of the twist. This is why saying clockwise has no meaning without a reference direction. The one genuine consideration is that adding twists to tune the string should tighten the serving, NOT tend loosen the serving.
> Bowbenders video is wrong!


I definetly appreciate your enthusiasm but considering I haven't watched the video I have no idea if it's right or wrong. All I am doing is telling the proper way to serve a bowstring. Enjoy my candy stripe kindergarten drawings. I can barely draw a stick figure! Lol


----------



## b0w_bender

Allan Hogan said:


> One last try! If you twist clockwise from, let's say the bottom loop and serve clockwise away from that loop, you will be serving across the grain of the twist. If you serve clockwise toward that loop, you will be serving with the grain of the twist. This is why saying clockwise has no meaning without a reference direction. The one genuine consideration is that adding twists to tune the string should tighten the serving, NOT tend loosen the serving.
> Bowbenders video is wrong!


If you believe it is wrong then do a video that you think shows it being done right. I'm open to change my mind if you can show me how you do it. It would also be helpful if you can provide some links that have contradiction to the way I've done it. What I based my video on was the mountain of feedback from this a forum and the Arrows and strings forum. It's possible that I misunderstood all that but it certainly has been working for me and when I do it in the opposite direction of the way I stated in the video I get peep rotation and the string turns into a curly queue after taking it off the stretcher. This is why I offered to do a video chat with you so you can show me exactly how you are doing it.


----------



## Huntinsker

I put this together for another thread but it may help to alleviate some confusion here too. 









If you see things better the other way.....


----------



## bigdogjp

Ok guys I'm going to order some fury & try this string thing got my jig all made up but I'm concerned about what serving to use for proper nock fit. Thinking of starting out with 30 strand count. Looking for the best quality finished product. What are you guys useing bullwhip, 1d, crown? Also what thickness? & are you useing the same for center serving & end servings or do you use different servings for each? Thanks for any info you may give.


----------



## b0w_bender

Allan Hogan said:


> One last try! If you twist clockwise from, let's say the bottom loop and serve clockwise away from that loop, you will be serving across the grain of the twist. If you serve clockwise toward that loop, you will be serving with the grain of the twist. This is why saying clockwise has no meaning without a reference direction. The one genuine consideration is that adding twists to tune the string should tighten the serving, NOT tend loosen the serving.
> Bowbenders video is wrong!


So not to put words in your mouth you would also consider this wrong too?


----------



## Huntinsker

bigdogjp said:


> Ok guys I'm going to order some fury & try this string thing got my jig all made up but I'm concerned about what serving to use for proper nock fit. Thinking of starting out with 30 strand count. Looking for the best quality finished product. What are you guys useing bullwhip, 1d, crown? Also what thickness? & are you useing the same for center serving & end servings or do you use different servings for each? Thanks for any info you may give.


.014 halo for end serving and .018 BCY powergrip would work well for you with a 30 strand count of Fury.


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## b0w_bender

here is a the specialty archery video. 
at 2:10 you can see that they twisted the string clockwise. 
at 3:45 and 4:00 you can see they are are rotating the string counter clockwise which is the equivalent of wrapping the bobbin over the top moving right to left. 





Now look back at my this video again





Assume we can all agree that they are both the same, correct?

If we agree then note the wraps on the down serving side in my video are getting tighter in front of the serving. Exactly as my original video predicted would happen if you were serving correctly.

I would also like to point out that this is also how Huntinsker's post describes it. Only he used the terms wrapping over the top going right to left.


----------



## jhinaz

b0w_bender said:


> here is a the specialty archery video.
> at 2:10 you can see that they twisted the string clockwise.
> at 3:45 and 4:00 you can see they are are rotating the string counter clockwise which is the equivalent of wrapping the bobbin over the top moving right to left.


I'm not familiar with the 'Specialty Archery Super Server 600' but I'm not so sure that he rotates the string counter-clockwise while serving. 

At 1:57 he says he always twists clockwise, and we can see 'F Dir' on his remote control (I presume that 'F' stands for forward and 'Dir" stands for direction.....then while serving the string at 3:11/3:47 we can still see 'F Dir' on his remote control....indicating that string twist is still clock-wise. 

That's a cool string jig....the burning question should be when will Automan26 and Huntinsker make us 'simplified plans' for that one. ha ha. - John
-


----------



## Allan Hogan

I understand the way I do it and what it achieves for me.
I understand the way you are doing it. I understand what you believe it achieves. Telling a scientist he does something by "wrote" is a red rag, as is making reference to kindergarten candy stripes. I've been waiting for data other than "everyone agrees with me" or "it tightens the twist ". So if no one is able to supply the actual data supporting your method, what say we just let the whole issue drop and go about our business?


----------



## bryanroberts

Allan Hogan said:


> I understand the way I do it and what it achieves for me.
> I understand the way you are doing it. I understand what you believe it achieves. Telling a scientist he does something by "wrote" is a red rag, as is making reference to kindergarten candy stripes. I've been waiting for data other than "everyone agrees with me" or "it tightens the twist ". So if no one is able to supply the actual data supporting your method, what say we just let the whole issue drop and go about our business?


The kindergarten reference was about my drawings, the way they look like a kindergarten student drew it up. I can't draw at all and was simply making fun of myself.


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## bryanroberts

It's pretty simple if your methods produce great strings then I wouldn't change a thing. They could be the exact same thing just hard to explain and they might be different?


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## Allan Hogan

Apologies for the kindergarten snap. I apparently took that the wrong way.


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## bryanroberts

Allan Hogan said:


> Apologies for the kindergarten snap. I apparently took that the wrong way.


No problem at all.. apology gladly accepted! My apology to you for the confusion!


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## bryanroberts

This is a 3 page thread on here that I think will clear up any confusion. And there is alot of confusion here and on this thread but it does get cleared up by some very good string builders......http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1600638&highlight=serving+direction


----------



## bigdogjp

Huntinsker said:


> .014 halo for end serving and .018 BCY powergrip would work well for you with a 30 strand count of Fury.


Thank you!


----------



## Purka

Allan, I used to serve with the grain for years until I used white serving and could see the string under the serving had unwound to the extent that the colours were running parallel.


----------



## b0w_bender

Allan Hogan said:


> I understand the way I do it and what it achieves for me.
> I understand the way you are doing it. I understand what you believe it achieves. Telling a scientist he does something by "wrote" is a red rag, as is making reference to kindergarten candy stripes. I've been waiting for data other than "everyone agrees with me" or "it tightens the twist ". So if no one is able to supply the actual data supporting your method, what say we just let the whole issue drop and go about our business?


Sorry Allen the problem with dropping it is that a lot of newbie builders read this thread for direction (so to speak) I did the video originally so that others wouldn't have to go through all the headaches and time experimenting. Now I certainly know that just because everyone does it that way is not necessarily evidence that it should be done that way. You and I agree on that more than you may guess. I will do a video that shows the differences between the two and then we won't have to rely on an appeal to authority and everyone can see what results each direction gives you. Who knows perhaps what the experiment will reveal is that I've been wrongly relying on everyone's opinion and my own experimentation has been inaccurate. If that's the case I'll adjust my method and unpublish my original video.

I'm glad you have a full understanding I certainly am not trying to insult your intelligence I'm really just trying to understand why you insist that what I and so many others have determined to be best is "WRONG". I'm wondering if you are mostly building recurve strings, I will freely admit that perhaps your method may work better there, particularly since with a recurve you are constantly dickering with brace height. Also with a recurve peep rotation is of zero concern. I don't have extensive experience with recurve strings. The ones I have made don't suffer from serving failure but I don't shoot them enough for that statement to have fair relevance. 

Lastly I'm wondering if what is good for the goose is also good for the gander, perhaps you could provide your "data" and sources for why you think you should wrap strings in the opposite direction from what I've stated. I know you say that adding twists should tighten the the serving but not "why"? Do you have data showing that your method actually solves a problem? I'll ask again could you please provide a link to what ever manufacturer or reference data you believe should be authoritative?



Purka said:


> Allan, I used to serve with the grain for years until I used white serving and could see the string under the serving had unwound to the extent that the colors were running parallel.


Perhaps I'll find that so long as you are consistent that peep rotation isn't a problem but I will use transparent serving so that all evidence will be clear.


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## deerbum

I will be making a string in BcyX and have only used Fury so far. Will the final dimension run longer, shorter, or roughly the same as the Fury when layed out for the same length? Would rather take an educated guess than make a test string.


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## skynight

deerbum said:


> I will be making a string in BcyX and have only used Fury so far. Will the final dimension run longer, shorter, or roughly the same as the Fury when layed out for the same length? Would rather take an educated guess than make a test string.


For X I use 1.01 X finished length, stretch at 300#, length ÷ 1.5 for twists.


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## deerbum

skynight said:


> For X I use 1.01 X finished length, stretch at 300#, length ÷ 1.5 for twists.


Thanks, I'm using 1.008 for the Fury and take off a smidge for the longer lengths.


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## nestly

I guess it's about time I chime in and say "Thanks" to the topic starter and all who have contributed to this topic. After about a 15 year absence, an old shooting/hunting buddy pulled me back into archery... and not being one to do anything half-way, of course that meant I had to become my own bow mechanic again and start building my own strings again.  

After reading though this entire topic (most of it more than once) I dug out my old string jig, made some minor modifications to it based on all great advice and ideas here, then proceeded to build a pneumatic twister/stretcher/power server. So far, I've done a couple dozen strings for myself and friends and everyone seems very pleased with the results.


----------



## jameswk

nestly said:


> I guess it's about time I chime in and say "Thanks" to the topic starter and all who have contributed to this topic. After about a 15 year absence, an old shooting/hunting buddy pulled me back into archery... and not being one to do anything half-way, of course that meant I had to become my own bow mechanic again and start building my own strings again.
> 
> After reading though this entire topic (most of it more than once) I dug out my old string jig, made some minor modifications to it based on all great advice and ideas here, then proceeded to build a pneumatic twister/stretcher/power server. So far, I've done a couple dozen strings for myself and friends and everyone seems very pleased with the results.


I've been wanting to try and make a pneumatic stretcher... Welcome back!


----------



## bryanroberts

nestly said:


> I guess it's about time I chime in and say "Thanks" to the topic starter and all who have contributed to this topic. After about a 15 year absence, an old shooting/hunting buddy pulled me back into archery... and not being one to do anything half-way, of course that meant I had to become my own bow mechanic again and start building my own strings again.
> 
> After reading though this entire topic (most of it more than once) I dug out my old string jig, made some minor modifications to it based on all great advice and ideas here, then proceeded to build a pneumatic twister/stretcher/power server. So far, I've done a couple dozen strings for myself and friends and everyone seems very pleased with the results.


Yes welcome back to what I refer to as the addiction!


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## deerbum

I'll be making my 1st solid color split yoke cable on my 2 post jig. My question is would it be best to lay out a continuous strand and use a false tags for the yoke loops?


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## bryanroberts

You can lay it out like a 2 color and false the cam loop.


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## deerbum

OK thanks Bryan, I was over thinking it.


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## bryanroberts

deerbum said:


> OK thanks Bryan, I was over thinking it.


No problem.. I'm just glad you understood what I was saying..lol


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## deerbum

OK one more question on this. I'm going on a recommendation of 26 strands of Bcy X for the cables, so that would force me to serve the yoke loops with false tags. Would you go that route or bump up the cables to 28 strands?


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## jameswk

deerbum said:


> OK one more question on this. I'm going on a recommendation of 26 strands of Bcy X for the cables, so that would force me to serve the yoke loops with false tags. Would you go that route or bump up the cables to 28 strands?


simple with a solid color 26 strands use false tags to close your yoke loops. wont need to lay it out like a 2 strand.. tags will start and end at the same post


----------



## nestly

deerbum said:


> OK one more question on this. I'm going on a recommendation of 26 strands of Bcy X for the cables, so that would force me to serve the yoke loops with false tags. Would you go that route or bump up the cables to 28 strands?


Strand count for split yoke cables should be in multiples of 4, otherwise there will be an imbalance in the left and right sides of the yoke.


----------



## jameswk

jameswk said:


> simple with a solid color 26 strands use false tags to close your yoke loops. wont need to lay it out like a 2 strand.. tags will start and end at the same post


Yeah this wouldn't work. Didn't count each leg correctly


----------



## Allan Hogan

Bowbender, I really did try to buy out of this! If you read back to when I came into this thread. I asked what data you had to back up your method. Your reply, in not so many words was "it tightens twist and that prevents peep rotation and lots of string builders agree with you". Even someone without a scientific background would know that's a garbage response. There's a process called peer review. What that means is you make your claim and supply the variable data so that others can attempt the same process to confirm of refute the claim. It appears that the only data you have is 'serve against the twist".
In your last response you ask for my data. I would remind you that I've placed no "how to" video on the internet making claims, I haven't wound the strings in your video and my data would be the very essence of meaningless in that context. 
I do however have data for the method I use, but I would hasten to add that you would be unable to interpret it without the key to the meaning. In the process of considering the problem of peep rotation there is, simply put "more than one way to skin a cat. 
Data in this issue could include such things as: String tension during serving, twist rate, What change in length was required during tuning process, server tension, test bow, draw weight, number of shots taken, etc. To name but a few.
I wanted to buy out of this before your thinly veiled attempts at belittlement got under my skin. Too late! No disrespect intended toward any other citizens of the US , But in Australian parlance, You are a Pelican and a prize Numpty and I would prefer you let it go before I get seriously caustic.


----------



## SteveB

Oh no - not seriously caustic!


----------



## Allan Hogan

SteveB said:


> Oh no - not seriously caustic!


Your point?


----------



## deerbum

nestly said:


> Strand count for split yoke cables should be in multiples of 4, otherwise there will be an imbalance in the left and right sides of the yoke.


Ah yes, this occurred to me after some more thought. Would anyone share with me the standard strand count for strings and cables with BCY X? I'm using 28/32 for Fury. Thanks in advamce!


----------



## nestly

Allan Hogan said:


> ....In the process of considering the problem of peep rotation there is, simply put "more than one way to skin a cat. ...


Agreed. Zero peep rotation can be achieved either way. There other variables during the string building process that affect how serving direction affects string performance, some of which you listed. It is also true that when serving "against the grain", adding twists to a served string does have a loosening affect on existing servings, however my experience it that it's not enough to have an adverse affect, unless the number of twists added is excessive, or the servings were not sufficiently tight to begin with.
Having said that, I still must agree with b0w_bender et al. that when following the building process described in this particular topic, serving "against the grain" of the string twists is the direction that will yield the best results, and most particularly for novice builders that might not have consistent strand tension throughout the whole bundle and/or might not maintain consistent serving tension.


----------



## bryanroberts

^^^


----------



## bryanroberts

deerbum said:


> Ah yes, this occurred to me after some more thought. Would anyone share with me the standard strand count for strings and cables with BCY X? I'm using 28/32 for Fury. Thanks in advamce!


I've been using 24 and 28 as a standard for bcy x


----------



## skynight

Allan Hogan said:


> Bowbender, I really did try to buy out of this! If you read back to when I came into this thread. I asked what data you had to back up your method. Your reply, in not so many words was "it tightens twist and that prevents peep rotation and lots of string builders agree with you". Even someone without a scientific background would know that's a garbage response. There's a process called peer review. What that means is you make your claim and supply the variable data so that others can attempt the same process to confirm of refute the claim. It appears that the only data you have is 'serve against the twist".
> In your last response you ask for my data. I would remind you that I've placed no "how to" video on the internet making claims, I haven't wound the strings in your video and my data would be the very essence of meaningless in that context.
> I do however have data for the method I use, but I would hasten to add that you would be unable to interpret it without the key to the meaning. In the process of considering the problem of peep rotation there is, simply put "more than one way to skin a cat.
> Data in this issue could include such things as: String tension during serving, twist rate, What change in length was required during tuning process, server tension, test bow, draw weight, number of shots taken, etc. To name but a few.
> I wanted to buy out of this before your thinly veiled attempts at belittlement got under my skin. Too late! No disrespect intended toward any other citizens of the US , But in Australian parlance, You are a Pelican and a prize Numpty and I would prefer you let it go before I get seriously caustic.


I don't know what all that BS is, but I can tell you this: You don't have to be Albert Einstein to know when you served it wrong.
It is either done right, or a complete obvious disaster. 

It's not that hard, and your attitude is ridiculous.


----------



## Allan Hogan

skynight said:


> I don't know what all that BS is, but I can tell you this: You don't have to be Albert Einstein to know when you served it wrong.
> It is either done right, or a complete obvious disaster.
> 
> It's not that hard, and your attitude is ridiculous.


My attitude is ridiculous? As I pointed out above, I was happy to walk away from this discussion almost from the beginning. Your friend bow bender won't let it go until I agree with him. So what is it you want from me, for my attitude not to be ridiculous other than to agree to something that I don't believe?


----------



## Allan Hogan

nestly said:


> Agreed. Zero peep rotation can be achieved either way. There other variables during the string building process that affect how serving direction affects string performance, some of which you listed. It is also true that when serving "against the grain", adding twists to a served string does have a loosening affect on existing servings, however my experience it that it's not enough to have an adverse affect, unless the number of twists added is excessive, or the servings were not sufficiently tight to begin with.
> Having said that, I still must agree with b0w_bender et al. that when following the building process described in this particular topic, serving "against the grain" of the string twists is the direction that will yield the best results, and most particularly for novice builders that might not have consistent strand tension throughout the whole bundle and/or might not maintain consistent serving tension.


This post almost makes me want to pursue this further, however I'm out the door for a few days and pretty much lost the interest.
Al


----------



## Allan Hogan

Double post


----------



## skynight

Allan Hogan said:


> My attitude is ridiculous? As I pointed out above, I was happy to walk away from this discussion almost from the beginning. Your friend bow bender won't let it go until I agree with him. So what is it you want from me, for my attitude not to be ridiculous other than to agree to something that I don't believe?


Yes, ridiculous.

bowBender is not my personal friend, but I do know that he is a valued contributor to this forum. Your contributions are as valuable as a toddlers temper tantrum.


----------



## Allan Hogan

skynight said:


> Yes, ridiculous.
> 
> bowBender is not my personal friend, but I do know that he is a valued contributor to this forum. Your contributions are as valuable as a toddlers temper tantrum.


I can only repeat. What is it you want from me for my attitude to not be ridiculous. What contributions are you referring to. So far I've only attempted to get information to justify his claims. I could contribute if you want, but somehow I think you've already made your decisions and no amount of input will change that.


----------



## Huntinsker

Allan Hogan said:


> Bowbender, I really did try to buy out of this! If you read back to when I came into this thread. I asked what data you had to back up your method. Your reply, in not so many words was "it tightens twist and that prevents peep rotation and lots of string builders agree with you". Even someone without a scientific background would know that's a garbage response. There's a process called peer review. What that means is you make your claim and supply the variable data so that others can attempt the same process to confirm of refute the claim. It appears that the only data you have is 'serve against the twist".
> In your last response you ask for my data. I would remind you that I've placed no "how to" video on the internet making claims, I haven't wound the strings in your video and my data would be the very essence of meaningless in that context.
> I do however have data for the method I use, but I would hasten to add that you would be unable to interpret it without the key to the meaning. In the process of considering the problem of peep rotation there is, simply put "more than one way to skin a cat.
> Data in this issue could include such things as: String tension during serving, twist rate, What change in length was required during tuning process, server tension, test bow, draw weight, number of shots taken, etc. To name but a few.
> I wanted to buy out of this before your thinly veiled attempts at belittlement got under my skin. Too late! No disrespect intended toward any other citizens of the US , But in Australian parlance, You are a Pelican and a prize Numpty and I would prefer you let it go before I get seriously caustic.


Allan. As the OP of this thread, I will respectfully ask you to try and keep your responses more civil. We've done a good job keeping this thread alive with good discussion and information without getting personal when we have disagreements. We don't need to change that now. b0w_bender is an intelligent man and does not deserve to be insulted for his opinions. He simply asked for your data or your sources to prove your point. As a "trained scientist" you should know that you must have data and evidence to support your claim and you should be willing to share it with others so that it can be evaluated and tested. That's part of the scientific method and without being able to test other's claims, they mean nothing. You speak of the peer review process. Well, lets have your data so that we can review it. After all, we're your string building peers.


----------



## b0w_bender

Allan Hogan said:


> I asked what data you had to back up your method. Your reply, in not so many words was "it tightens twist and that prevents peep rotation and lots of string builders agree with you". Even someone without a scientific background would know that's a garbage response. There's a process called peer review. What that means is you make your claim and supply the variable data so that others can attempt the same process to confirm of refute the claim. It appears that the only data you have is 'serve against the twist"


Sorry, I wasn't making an appeal to authority, though I understand how you would have interpreted it that way. My point in pointing out the overwhelming number of people who I learned from on this sight and the folks I've tried to help over the years have all done a great deal of effort, research and experimentation and they have also come to the same conclusion that I have. That is in fact "Data". Now it's not in a scientific journal but our string building peers will be the first ones to say they reviewed it and the feedback is evident. I have also agreed to compare both methodologies fairly and share my findings. I want to use clear serving when I do that so I'm waiting for the thin white serving I ordered in order to do that. It really is all about being a positive influence.



Allan Hogan said:


> In your last response you ask for my data. I would remind you that I've placed no "how to" video on the internet making claims, I haven't wound the strings in your video and my data would be the very essence of meaningless in that context.


No but didn't you make a clear claim that I was wrong in a public forum? Haven't you tried to repeatedly undermine the process that I promoted on the video, So all I'm asking is if you are so sure of your position there must be some basis for that? Wouldn't you want me to understand it? Let me also clarify something for you. I created this video after wading through literally hundreds of posts from people trying to verbally explain what they were doing. There were a lot of pictures that left a lot to be desired too. A direction thread would spring up monthly and they were always confusing and often ended with less than clear directions for the readers. I did a lot of polling and testing and reviewing answers from the professional string builders and the experienced members and came to the methodology you see on the video. It was NOT entirely an opinion of my own making but my experience shows it to be valid functional system. 



Allan Hogan said:


> I do however have data for the method I use, but I would hasten to add that you would be unable to interpret it without the key to the meaning. In the process of considering the problem of peep rotation there is, simply put "more than one way to skin a cat. Data in this issue could include such things as: String tension during serving, twist rate, What change in length was required during tuning process, server tension, test bow, draw weight, number of shots taken, etc.


And your pier reviewed process and data for the above list would be exactly where? If you want to say unequivocally that I am wrong then any good "scientist" will prove it.



Allan Hogan said:


> You are a Pelican and a prize Numpty and I would prefer you let it go before I get seriously caustic.


I ask you to please go back and read my previous posts and see if you can find anywhere where I attempted to besmirch your character or called you names? Yes when you disagreed with me I said I thought you were wrong and I have a significant number of hours of personal experimentation behind that assertion. Despite your clear acrimony towards me I'm only interested in ensuring that we all have the best string building approach and if you end up being the catalyst of that I will thank you. I hope you can take a step back and see that my interest here is really for the betterment of everyone.


----------



## b0w_bender

I would also add that I have found several places on other videos where I did in fact wrap my serving opposite of my serving direction video. 
I am in the process of actually noting that on the videos and referencing my direction video to help alleviate confusion.

I would also like to redo my string building videos because there is some disinformation in there that I would like to just get removed from the conversation.


----------



## b0w_bender

nestly said:


> Strand count for split yoke cables should be in multiples of 4, otherwise there will be an imbalance in the left and right sides of the yoke.


Dude, that was a great diagram!


----------



## Huntinsker

b0w bender, I'm looking forward to your video. I know what will happen because early in my string building I accidentally served one end of a string backwards while using white halo and I could literally see the twists moving out from under the serving every time I drew the bow. It was kind of wild to see it in real time.


----------



## deerbum

Thanks for the help with the BCY X- I'm not a fan of red strings but that's what my buddies son wanted. This 2014 Experience was probably shot fewer than 100 times but the factory strings were stretched so far out of whack that they were unusable, they would shoot but not tune. I went from laying out the threads to bareshafts hitting with fletched at 20 yards all in less than a day. The BCY X's amount stretch is very, very close to what I see with Fury as Retrieverfishin had suggested to me. It was a few hours of work (aka fun) but at least I have another set in use to check for peep rotation- so far so good!


----------



## b0w_bender

good job and thanks for the feedback about the stretch rates. I'm thinking my next spool will be Fury so I can get the tri-color options


----------



## b0w_bender

Huntinsker said:


> b0w bender, I'm looking forward to your video. I know what will happen because early in my string building I accidentally served one end of a string backwards while using white halo and I could literally see the twists moving out from under the serving every time I drew the bow. It was kind of wild to see it in real time.


I want to keep an open mind, I haven't done any clear serving so it will be a learning experience for me too.


----------



## nestly

Here's my attempt at demonstrating the relationship between string twist direction, and serving direction.


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Here's my attempt at demonstrating the relationship between string twist direction, and serving direction.


THAT WAS AWESOME!!! I wish I had the program and the skills to make stuff like that. One thing that I think may confuse people though, is at the end when you showed the serving going against the twists or with the twists and I think that's one of the biggest confusions when trying to type out a serving direction explanation. 

When I say serve in the same direction as you twist the string, I'm referring to the direction in which you add twists to the string by rotating the jig handle. So if I say, "serve with the twists", that's what I mean. If you think of "the twists" as the direction that the fibers are laying, you may serve it backwards or in the opposite direction that you've added twists to the string.

To be clear to everyone who may read this or watch that awesome video, I advocate serving in the first direction shown in the video.


----------



## SamT

X2. Nestly, thanks for the vid.


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## nestly

Although I have no doubt in my own mind about which direction to serve relative to the string twists, I still haven't found a written description that isn't somewhat confusing, thus I tried to demonstrate with animation. My intent is not necessarily to promote one serving direction over the other, rather just help illustrate the relationship between string twist direction and serving direction.

It's just a first attempt, so feedback about how to make the video better is welcomed (leave a comments on youtube if you like)


----------



## Red Voodoo

Nestly, what program was that done in? I am a CAD person and looked like SolidWorks?


----------



## nestly

Red Voodoo said:


> Nestly, what program was that done in? I am a CAD person and looked like SolidWorks?


AutoCAD (recorded and edited with Camtasia Studio).


----------



## b0w_bender

nestly said:


> AutoCAD (recorded and edited with Camtasia Studio).


I've been messing with Fusion 360, it is made by Autodesk and is very very similar in look and feel.
It's also free for hobbyist and non commercial entities. So all those that like what you see there and want to learn how to use a CAD program. Check it out.
http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/

By the way Nestly super nice video!


----------



## Red Voodoo

I am starting the process of learning how to make my strings. My question here is difference in cost between making a jig and purchasing one. How much can I save by building one compared to the price of a BAP which is what I am interested in. I cannot weld to save my life, but have a couple people I work with who do. So thinking materials only. Also how busy can you be making strings for others. Not really interested in selling, but if I can learn how to do and put out a quality product, I may a few years from now when the kids begin to leave the nest.


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## deerbum

It's probably in the $100 range though I didn't keep track of all the hardware I purchased. But hey, any time spent in the hardware aisle is quality time in my book. If you need to buy tools factor that in also. In hindsight I would have saved the headache and had a shop drill the 5/8" holes instead of buying a bit. The lowest speed on my drill press is stll too fast for large bits.


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## b0w_bender

Ya if you follow the instructions on here for the El-cheapo jig (very adequate) then I would guess youy would be around $100.00 and there is no welding involved. Then new materials and a bobbin you are looking at probably another $130.00 so if you are just making a single set you could probably do better just buying one. However if you are looking to be self sufficient and interested in trying new setups and helping other people who might be in bind and ... Then building your own is priceless.


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## tenzing

string clamps for doing tag end serving.


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## Red Voodoo

Did you make the double posts or purchase it?


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## tenzing

Red Voodoo said:


> Did you make the double posts or purchase it?


The two oosts are purchased. The string clamps are from Huntensker idea. I added the T for those who are interested in serving end loops. This clamp can also be used in the two post El-cheapo served end loop.


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## redyak3

Cool vid nesty... that should clear up any "muddy waters".
Well done!


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## dwagoner

tenzing said:


> string clamps for doing tag end serving.


Im lost at why your clamping the ends if your gonna use the tags to make the end loops???? I see your tags wrapped around the posts so looks like your just clamping the string to actually serve it with other serving???


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## dwagoner

nestly said:


> Here's my attempt at demonstrating the relationship between string twist direction, and serving direction.


BEST illustration ever.....


----------



## MandK

nestly said:


> Strand count for split yoke cables should be in multiples of 4, otherwise there will be an imbalance in the left and right sides of the yoke.


Hi guys, just saw this cool drawing and it's messing me up. on page 94 I asked the question about strand count on cables using X and was told 26. i have only built pinstripes so I go 
11-2 11-2 and end up with 3 tags at loop. Both yokes are identical, so I don't see imbalance. Am I wrong? Thanks Mark


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## MandK

I did mean drawing by Nestly on page 111 showing yokes


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## Allan Hogan

Huntinsker said:


> Allan. As the OP of this thread, I will respectfully ask you to try and keep your responses more civil. We've done a good job keeping this thread alive with good discussion and information without getting personal when we have disagreements. We don't need to change that now. b0w_bender is an intelligent man and does not deserve to be insulted for his opinions. He simply asked for your data or your sources to prove your point. As a "trained scientist" you should know that you must have data and evidence to support your claim and you should be willing to share it with others so that it can be evaluated and tested. That's part of the scientific method and without being able to test other's claims, they mean nothing. You speak of the peer review process. Well, lets have your data so that we can review it. After all, we're your string building peers.


Yes, and I offer an unconditional apology to the board. It was the end of a bad week for me. 
Bow Bender, the process we each use is obviously vastly different. The information I was chasing from you, which you seem not to keep, I believed would allow me to emulate your process and test it for myself. 
I, on the other hand record every detail of each string I wind to allow repeatability. For instance if I wind a string for a particular model bow, from a particular material, the next time I wind another for the same bow, of the same material it will be, for all intents and purposes, identical. My process is too time consuming to go into the details, however it gives me a string without peep rotation problems, which stays in tune.
I have no doubt that if you make another video, using your existing process it will justify the advice you are disseminating. I, on the other hand will continue doing it my way, so good luck to everyone and as I have neither the capability nor the interest to engage in an anecdotal debate, I can hopefully now extract myself from this one.


----------



## b0w_bender

Allan Hogan said:


> Yes, and I offer an unconditional apology to the board.


 as a member of the thread I would certainly accept that, I also apologize if I wasn't as welcoming or forthright as you had expected or hoped for.


----------



## nestly

MandK said:


> so I go 11-2 11-2 and end up with 3 tags at loop. Both yokes are identical, so I don't see imbalance.


Probably not everyone will agree, but IMO, to properly "close a loop", both tag ends of the same length of string have to be tied off against each other. This is not possible when a "loop" consists of an odd number of strands because the tag ends will be at opposite ends of the string, whether it's a 3 strand string (shown in the included image), or 11 strands in a multi-colored string, or a solid color string with 23 strands. 

Using the example of a 26 strand split yoke, regardless of it's construction, there are 26 total strands, but only 13 actually wrap around the post on the cam end. Similarly, at the yoke end, there are 13 strands total in each side, so simple math tells us there should be 6 1/2 strands in each bundle going to each yoke loop. Since there's no such thing as "1/2 a strand", the reality is there are 6 strands in one bundle, and 7 strands in the other bundle. The 7th strand terminates somewhere under the yoke loop serving, but it's not anchored against anything that offers equal opposing force.


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## MandK

Thanks for the answer Nestly, I appreciate the detailed explanation. Seeing the drawing it makes perfect sense.
Mark


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## shinobi3

Love this color


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## Irish Sitka

I am getting all the required items together to start building my own strings and cables.
As soon as I track down a spring that will give me the require3d poundage to stretch strings I will be closer.
What do you think of the stuff I have so far? Got it in a local agricultural supplier.
The brackets are .5" thick, so each end will be 1" of galvanised steel.
The channel is 2.5" deep and quite strong, may not need to brace it for strength??
The holes drilled in the brackets are already the right size for the all threaded bar.
Am in Ireland so no access to McMaster-Carr for spring but am sure will find equivalent here.
It is getting exciting as it all comes together.


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## bryanroberts

Irish Sitka said:


> I am getting all the required items together to start building my own strings and cables.
> As soon as I track down a spring that will give me the require3d poundage to stretch strings I will be closer.
> What do you think of the stuff I have so far? Got it in a local agricultural supplier.
> The brackets are .5" thick, so each end will be 1" of galvanised steel.
> The channel is 2.5" deep and quite strong, may not need to brace it for strength??
> The holes drilled in the brackets are already the right size for the all threaded bar.
> Am in Ireland so no access to McMaster-Carr for spring but am sure will find equivalent here.
> It is getting exciting as it all comes together.


Looks like a great start! Make sure to bolt your uni strut down or bolt two together because you will experience some flex especially with the longer single cam strings.


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## bryanroberts

shinobi3 said:


> Love this color


I like it too shinobi3!


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## Irish Sitka

bryanroberts said:


> Looks like a great start! Make sure to bolt your uni strut down or bolt two together because you will experience some flex especially with the longer single cam strings.


Thanks for suggestion about screwing channel down, will do.


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## b0w_bender

Irish Sitka said:


> I am getting all the required items together to start building my own strings and cables.
> As soon as I track down a spring that will give me the require3d poundage to stretch strings I will be closer.
> What do you think of the stuff I have so far? Got it in a local agricultural supplier.
> The brackets are .5" thick, so each end will be 1" of galvanised steel.
> The channel is 2.5" deep and quite strong, may not need to brace it for strength??
> The holes drilled in the brackets are already the right size for the all threaded bar.
> Am in Ireland so no access to McMaster-Carr for spring but am sure will find equivalent here.
> It is getting exciting as it all comes together.


Yup I agree you'll want to bolt down the uni-strut.

I think it looks better than what Automan26 put together, not that there is anything wrong with automans design. The idea around Automan26's jig is to be able to put together a jig with parts from the local hardware store. To me it look like the local Irish parts option is sweet! I think you'll be just fine with that. Heck I'm not even sure you'll need the eye bolts that add stability 1" of steel should be enough. but you can add them if you need them.


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## shinobi3

Thanks Bryan


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## redyak3

b0w_bender said:


> Yup I agree you'll want to bolt down the uni-strut.
> 
> I think it looks better than what Automan26 put together, not that there is anything wrong with automans design. The idea around Automan26's jig is to be able to put together a jig with parts from the local hardware store. To me it look like the local Irish parts option is sweet! I think you'll be just fine with that. Heck I'm not even sure you'll need the eye bolts that add stability 1" of steel should be enough. but you can add them if you need them.


I went a different route in dealing with flex by welding a 1/4"x1-5/8" spine. It's all good fun.


----------



## b0w_bender

redyak3 said:


> I went a different route in dealing with flex by welding a 1/4"x1-5/8" spine. It's all good fun.


When I see stuff like that I think of Tim Allen "ha herrr errrrr"


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## jameswk

Harrrrr


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## redyak3

Thanks...I think, LOL:darkbeer:


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## shinobi3

Here is s little video I did for serving direction. I hope it can help you out.
https://vimeo.com/135500373


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## shinobi3

Pt 2
https://vimeo.com/135528817


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## b0w_bender

Thanks, nice videos.


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## michaelgentry87

Hi finally started using the jig I built only problem is I will tension the spring side to 1 in and 3/4 which is about 320 lbs and then I use the other side to tension the string when ready but I end up loosing pressure some how 

Excuse the mess

























And that is a piece of dloop I'm stretching out at 80lbs


----------



## b0w_bender

michaelgentry87 said:


> Hi finally started using the jig I built only problem is I will tension the spring side to 1 in and 3/4 which is about 320 lbs and then I use the other side to tension the string when ready but I end up loosing pressure some how
> And that is a piece of dloop I'm stretching out at 80lbs


- It could be the uni-strut flexing upward?
- the String could be stretching
- the string tag ends could be slipping
- the bases could be slipping on the uni-strut
- the verticals could be bending
all sorts of potential movement options. I would bring it up to pressure and then mark and measure everything and see what is actually changing.


----------



## shinobi3

b0w_bender said:


> Thanks, nice videos.


Thanks


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## michaelgentry87

I'll build a string and measure it out its for my son's diamond atomic he is six so no big deal


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## nestly

michaelgentry87 said:


> ....I will tension the spring side to 1 in and 3/4 which is about 320 lbs and then I use the other side to tension the string when ready but I end up loosing pressure some how


In addition to b0w_bender's suggestions, make sure the nut opposing the spring is not tight against the vertical bar (see attached) because any spring compression that happens when that nut is tight is tension applied to the threaded rod, not in the string.


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## michaelgentry87

Ooh


----------



## SamT

The way I see it, the two hex nuts on the left are too closed together. You need more space on this end to be able to tighten the string. Look at picture on post #1. The string tension is what pulls against the compression spring.


----------



## nestly

There are several ways to apply tension with the DIY design, so the "fixed" configuration of the un-sprung end would be OK if tension is applied at the sprung end.


----------



## tenzing

A simple thread winder


----------



## Red Voodoo

Looking to go ahead and purchase string material as I build jig. Looking for recommendations what you have had better luck with. Not to interested in price. Quality is more important. Also serving material.


----------



## bryanroberts

Red Voodoo said:


> Looking to go ahead and purchase string material as I build jig. Looking for recommendations what you have had better luck with. Not to interested in price. Quality is more important. Also serving material.


As far as companies go both bcy and brownell make great products. As far as materials go it really depends on what your building for. Some of the new latest greatest is the fury (brownell) and x (bcy). There are other materials that work great and are used today on new bows. I used to use 452x when I first started but now I use bcy x and fury and have had great results out of them.


----------



## automan26

tenzing said:


> A simple thread winder


I like that setup a lot. It looks compact and easy to maneuver. Cordless looks like a great way to go also. ThanX for the pic.

Automan


----------



## bryanroberts

michaelgentry87 said:


> Hi finally started using the jig I built only problem is I will tension the spring side to 1 in and 3/4 which is about 320 lbs and then I use the other side to tension the string when ready but I end up loosing pressure some how
> 
> Excuse the mess
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that is a piece of dloop I'm stretching out at 80lbs


I'm sure it's because your material is stretching. If you set it up at exactly 300lbs as the material stretches the tension weight will go down.


----------



## michaelgentry87

I figured it out and thanks for the help my post a roll pins and I have no good way to tie off tags and well when I go to serve my tags (tag end method ) I always have a piece un served mind u I have only been building foot long pieces as practice but the roll pin doesn't allow me to get serving behind and make my tags a pita 
I'm going to switch to a clevis pin and make little buttons to hold my tags


----------



## michaelgentry87

I had shrink tube over it but the pressure would cut through


----------



## bryanroberts

michaelgentry87 said:


> I figured it out and thanks for the help my post a roll pins and I have no good way to tie off tags and well when I go to serve my tags (tag end method ) I always have a piece un served mind u I have only been building foot long pieces as practice but the roll pin doesn't allow me to get serving behind and make my tags a pita
> I'm going to switch to a clevis pin and make little buttons to hold my tags









thanks to automan26 I use these to hold my tag ends. One on each side or even one in front when doing pin stripes. This one stays low enough to be under the bundle. As for the roll pin, put the opening facing the front and you shouldn't need to cover it.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Good deal thanks what is the sizing on that like 1/4? And far as tag ends can they be anywhere in the bundle and any on have a 0 arts list for the string clamps for serving


----------



## soldier1265

Does anyone know what would cause a string to look like this? I am using BCY X. It happens whether I burnish or not. They look fine when on the jig or bow. They look like that when I take them off the jig or press the bow.


----------



## Binary cam man

soldier1265 said:


> Does anyone know what would cause a string to look like this? I am using BCY X. It happens whether I burnish or not. They look fine when on the jig or bow. They look like that when I take them off the jig or press the bow.


I had that at one time also. Check your spring calibration. I calibrated wrong and instead of 300 lbs, I was stretching at 450 lbs. I fixed it and everything was fine. Watch the burnishing also. The purpose of stretching is not to actually stretch the material , but to equalize the string bundle. Hope this helps.


----------



## soldier1265

10-4 I'll check that again.


----------



## soldier1265

That may have been it. Gotta try a red set.


----------



## michaelgentry87

So far every thing is working out minus my post pointed to far down and string slipping off and then I always get one loose strand not sure how I do that .....maybe my tags are not tight enough


----------



## Binary cam man

michaelgentry87 said:


> So far every thing is working out minus my post pointed to far down and string slipping off and then I always get one loose strand not sure how I do that .....maybe my tags are not tight enough


Ok I understand. I had that problem too. The loose strand. When I was wrapping around the posts I was pulling them very tight. When you do the tag ends,you are releasing some pressure on the tag ends.one strand. The rest stay tight. I don't white nuckle my wraps anymore. You have to get a feel for it. And the loose strand will stop. Hope this helps.


----------



## Binary cam man

Make sure both 5/8 threaded rods are level. Use the eye bolts to adjust them. Always keep the string material at the bottom of the posts. If they move up on you, push them back down. Before I got my string tension correct,I had a post snap off and fly by me like a bullet. I wasted a lot of material learning. Don't worry about it.when you get your process down, your strings will be awesome.


----------



## michaelgentry87

OK followed step by step one side of my loop was short...that's ok turned out good 
Didn't fly off the post but adjusted one side to match the other have them looking slightly away from each other
Plz criticize what u see I know one side of my loop didn't come out far enough and I didn't cut the tags


----------



## Binary cam man

You're getting it. From the jig pictures, when I start to serve the tag ends all the strands are touching in line and the first strand is touching the post nut. Then I cross the tag ends and start to serve. Hope this helps.


----------



## Binary cam man

Can't figure out that loose tag end loop. In the beginning of this thread there are afew different methods. Try them you may find one that works better. Then practice it. Don't get frustrated you will get it.


----------



## Cannon Fodder

Huntinsker said:


> The strand count depends on several things. 1st, what material you're using and what the string material manufacturer recommends for that material. 2nd What you're building for and what kind of string. 3rd, personal preference.
> 
> I personally build mostly with BCY 452x and use 22 strands on the string and 24 strands on the cables. Now I'm planning on making some custom threads for a target bow I'm building and I'm going to probably use 26 - 28 strands on the cables to make the back wall more solid. So that's the personal preference.
> 
> If you're building for compounds, it really doesn't matter what poundage, the strand count and materials are all pretty consistent. There is a guy on here shooting a 114lb custom built PSE and he uses 24 strand strings and cables of 452x and that's the same strand count and material that my buddies wife shoots on her 30lb Diamond Infinite Edge.



Dumb question, but the is the strand recommendations listed on the Mfg's website for both strings and cables? I have searched but haven't really found a straight answer as the variation of materials and techniques listed in this thread and others.

The reason I ask is I was planning on building a set of strings an cables for my older PSE after some practice, but I was wanting to do it completely out of DynaFLIGHT 97 (price point), which I haven't found much information on outside of the longbow/recurve information. The OE set is 14 strands of DynaFLIGHT 97 for the string and 12 strands of 450 Plus for the cable, which aligns with the recommendations on BCY's site of D97 14-16 and 450+ 12.

I had a shop (Mathews dealer) replace the string/cable a while back (Zebra) but made the bow really noisy with vibration that wasn't there before. I have not been happy with the bow since, but the tubeless peep doesn't rotate on it. So I figured I would kill two birds with one stone and learn a new skill while trying to duplicate the OE strings/cable out of one material. I have a little more work in putting the jig together that I plan on doing this week and hope to have a mostly functioning 2 post this weekend.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## michaelgentry87

My yoke cable didn't turn out so hot ....my finger seem to fat lol


----------



## SamT

Binary cam man said:


> I had that at one time also. Check your spring calibration. I calibrated wrong and instead of 300 lbs, I was stretching at 450 lbs. I fixed it and everything was fine. Watch the burnishing also.  The purpose of stretching is not to actually stretch the material , but to equalize the string bundle. Hope this helps.


FWIW, this was blog posted by a custom string maker, to remain anonymous, referring to a review of Brownells Fury material and the stretching process, "...After talking to Brownell about our concern we were advised that fury needs to be stretched longer compared to other bow string materials. As a result we have found that fury needs to be stretched about 3 times as long as other bow string materials using our process. Some will argue that taking longer to stretch shows that the material is more stable but I do not understand that reasoning. At the end of the day it just takes longer for the material to fully elongate and yield a 100% stable bow string. ..."

Maybe it addition to the poundage used during the process, a longer stretching period needs to given more considerations, at least according to this article it does. ?? Thoughts?


----------



## Binary cam man

SamT said:


> FWIW, this was blog posted by a custom string maker, to remain anonymous, referring to a review of Brownells Fury material and the stretching process, "...After talking to Brownell about our concern we were advised that fury needs to be stretched longer compared to other bow string materials. As a result we have found that fury needs to be stretched about 3 times as long as other bow string materials using our process. Some will argue that taking longer to stretch shows that the material is more stable but I do not understand that reasoning. At the end of the day it just takes longer for the material to fully elongate and yield a 100% stable bow string. ..."
> 
> Maybe it addition to the poundage used during the process, a longer stretching period needs to given more considerations, at least according to this article it does. ?? Thoughts?


Good Thoughts. I haven't tried fury yet. I use bcy x. What I do know about x is it is good to 300 lbs or more right off the spool. I use what they call stretching to equalize the bundle and for serving purposes. I don't want to stretch the material because I don't want to lose the finished length I'm trying to achieve. I see what they are saying also. The word elongate must mean equalize the bundle. It all depends on how many strands and how long the string is.


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## b0w_bender

SamT said:


> FWIW, this was blog posted by a custom string maker, to remain anonymous, referring to a review of Brownells Fury material and the stretching process, "...After talking to Brownell about our concern we were advised that fury needs to be stretched longer compared to other bow string materials. As a result we have found that fury needs to be stretched about 3 times as long as other bow string materials using our process. Some will argue that taking longer to stretch shows that the material is more stable but I do not understand that reasoning. At the end of the day it just takes longer for the material to fully elongate and yield a 100% stable bow string. ..."
> 
> Maybe it addition to the poundage used during the process, a longer stretching period needs to given more considerations, at least according to this article it does. ?? Thoughts?


Well he is a very trusted source here on AT. Nearly all of the comments he makes I find my self agreeing with and his string building reputation is very strong. So if he says it takes longer to stretch I tend to believe him. Having said that there is this one caveat, they have recently used BCY materials exclusively and in the same article he mentions that in the past they have had issues with Brownell materials. It may be that he has an interest in using BCY (margins?) and so there could be a bias to his statements. the fewer people asking for Fury the fewer strings he has to build with it. So if it uis true it has a longer stretching time is not really a concern for the casual string builder but I can see how it might be an issue with someone trying to free up his machines for the next strings. I would prefer to see a scientific side by side comparison done by someone without a dog in the hunt.


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## nestly

Quick observation not based on any actual testing; All else being equal, I would expect a bundle of 32 strands to take longer to equalize/settle than a bundle of 24 strands, just as I would expect 24 strands to take longer to settle than 12 strands. I would also expect the difference to be more exponential than linear.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Quick observation not based on any actual testing; All else being equal, I would expect a bundle of 32 strands to take longer to equalize/settle than a bundle of 24 strands, just as I would expect 24 strands to take longer to settle than 12 strands. I would also expect the difference to be more exponential than linear.


I agree with that. It's not hard to understand why that may make a difference.


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## Huntinsker

Cannon Fodder said:


> Dumb question, but the is the strand recommendations listed on the Mfg's website for both strings and cables? I have searched but haven't really found a straight answer as the variation of materials and techniques listed in this thread and others.
> 
> The reason I ask is I was planning on building a set of strings an cables for my older PSE after some practice, but I was wanting to do it completely out of DynaFLIGHT 97 (price point), which I haven't found much information on outside of the longbow/recurve information. The OE set is 14 strands of DynaFLIGHT 97 for the string and 12 strands of 450 Plus for the cable, which aligns with the recommendations on BCY's site of D97 14-16 and 450+ 12.
> 
> I had a shop (Mathews dealer) replace the string/cable a while back (Zebra) but made the bow really noisy with vibration that wasn't there before. I have not been happy with the bow since, but the tubeless peep doesn't rotate on it. So I figured I would kill two birds with one stone and learn a new skill while trying to duplicate the OE strings/cable out of one material. I have a little more work in putting the jig together that I plan on doing this week and hope to have a mostly functioning 2 post this weekend.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


For the most part yes, the recommendations are good for both the string and cable. If I were building a set with D97, I'd go 14 on the string and 16 on the cables. That should get you a finished diameter that will work well with your nocks. You may have to experiment with center servings to find the right size for your nocks.


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## Cannon Fodder

Huntinsker said:


> For the most part yes, the recommendations are good for both the string and cable. If I were building a set with D97, I'd go 14 on the string and 16 on the cables. That should get you a finished diameter that will work well with your nocks. You may have to experiment with center servings to find the right size for your nocks.


Thanks.

I currently have two spools of serving, BCY 400 Multi and .020 Polygrip, but I probably need to get some 62XS and 3D. I'm using GT nocks which fit the OE string fine. I measured the string at .082 for the bundle and .112 for the center serving which doesn't quite add up, as there is no black and white BCY .030 serving unless they used Diamondback. The string isn't under any tension as it hasn't been on the bow in a while so it may have puffed up a bit.

Thanks.


----------



## SamT

nestly said:


> Quick observation not based on any actual testing; All else being equal, I would expect a bundle of 32 strands to take longer to equalize/settle than a bundle of 24 strands, just as I would expect 24 strands to take longer to settle than 12 strands. I would also expect the difference to be more exponential than linear.


Yes, that is a good point to consider.


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## michaelgentry87

Ok I have had better luck with not hulking the layup on still had a little loose string not to bad used the hutch method for tag ends
But a couple questions, I seen on first post that do 20 min under tension then 45 min after twisting. I assume this is 452x is bcyx any different should it sit longer. I have let mine set 30 min on initial stretch and hour after the twist


Ie: I have sent people stretch for 5 hours on here .....jw 
I want to do it right


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## michaelgentry87




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## Huntinsker

Looking pretty good. Since I wrote the original post with my process, I've tweaked things as I've evolved as a builder. The initial stretch that I now do, before twisting, is at around 200lbs and for only 5-7 minutes or so. If I'm working with Fury and not 452x, I might bump that poundage up a bit more and increase the time a bit. More strands require more time to equalize. For the twist and stretch I still go to at least 350lbs and stretch for 1/2 hour on cables and an hour on strings. If I'm building with Fury, I'll increase the time by another half. So if I'm doing a Fury cable, I'll go at least 45min and a string will be at least 1.5hr. To be honest though, my stretch time is rarely done to any sort of exact time. If I get busy, a string or cable may be on the stretcher several hours until I get back to it. One thing that I don't mess with much is the rest period though. I like to give them at least 5hrs before they go on the bow and I prefer over night.


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## michaelgentry87

Good deal I twisted and have it stretching while I'm building on my house lol


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## michaelgentry87

Good news came back it has been on for about 6 hours and didn't loose and lbs ....so I think I'm ready!!!!


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## michaelgentry87

Huntinsker said:


> Looking pretty good. Since I wrote the original post with my process, I've tweaked things as I've evolved as a builder. The initial stretch that I now do, before twisting, is at around 200lbs and for only 5-7 minutes or so. If I'm working with Fury and not 452x, I might bump that poundage up a bit more and increase the time a bit. More strands require more time to equalize. For the twist and stretch I still go to at least 350lbs and stretch for 1/2 hour on cables and an hour on strings. If I'm building with Fury, I'll increase the time by another half. So if I'm doing a Fury cable, I'll go at least 45min and a string will be at least 1.5hr. To be honest though, my stretch time is rarely done to any sort of exact time. If I get busy, a string or cable may be on the stretcher several hours until I get back to it. One thing that I don't mess with much is the rest period though. I like to give them at least 5hrs before they go on the bow and I prefer over night.


How is fury compared to bcy x or 452


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## Red Voodoo

Looking for advice of purchase of serving tool and string material. Deciding between the BCY Bearpaw or the AAE Cavalier Server. Leaning towards the AAE because it is not as long, so may work better in a tighter space. Also should I go cheep on first set of string material? As I experiment on learning how to make strings, I imagine there will be some waste at first. So my thought is first few sets will not look good so may never be used on a bow. Hope to have jig welded together this weekend. Was hoping to keep jig under $100 and I am currently at $96.93. Looks like I can only pay my welder $3.06 for work done! :wink:


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## jameswk

Red Voodoo said:


> Looking for advice of purchase of serving tool and string material. Deciding between the BCY Bearpaw or the AAE Cavalier Server. Leaning towards the AAE because it is not as long, so may work better in a tighter space. Also should I go cheep on first set of string material? As I experiment on learning how to make strings, I imagine there will be some waste at first. So my thought is first few sets will not look good so may never be used on a bow. Hope to have jig welded together this weekend. Was hoping to keep jig under $100 and I am currently at $96.93. Looks like I can only pay my welder $3.06 for work done! :wink:


Get a beiter winder you'll love it right off the bat and it will keep you from getting frustrated with cheaper ones


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## automan26

Make your first few practice strings short. Twenty inches is plenty. Most of the learning curve happens at the ends of the string, so there is no need to waste material as you learn.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> How is fury compared to bcy x or 452


Not sure exactly what you're looking for in a comparison but in a nutshell, it makes a cleaner looking string, is easier to work with, is every bit as stable and actually more stable in my experience than 452x. If I didn't already have a bunch of 452x, I'd have a full stock of Fury.


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## Huntinsker

Red Voodoo said:


> Looking for advice of purchase of serving tool and string material. Deciding between the BCY Bearpaw or the AAE Cavalier Server. Leaning towards the AAE because it is not as long, so may work better in a tighter space. Also should I go cheep on first set of string material? As I experiment on learning how to make strings, I imagine there will be some waste at first. So my thought is first few sets will not look good so may never be used on a bow. Hope to have jig welded together this weekend. Was hoping to keep jig under $100 and I am currently at $96.93. Looks like I can only pay my welder $3.06 for work done! :wink:


Yep, I agree with jameswk. Don't bother with any other serving tools, get the Beiter Winder and be glad you did. It's more expensive but it really is the best. 

I wouldn't bother with getting a cheap string material to practice with. The learning curve isn't that long if you take your time and do your homework. My very first set was rock solid with zero peep twist so I don't see why you couldn't do the same with all the information we have in this thread. I do recommend making a couple short strings like Automan said. The hardest part of making the string is making good looking loops. You can even make one test string without tying off the tag end, unwrap them, add a little wax and do it all over again. They may not look quite as good the second time but you'll get the process "under your fingers" so to speak without wasting material. 

It wouldn't be a bad idea to look in the classifieds for some material that someone is getting rid of. Here's a post from dwagoner who's selling some 452x you may look at. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2468762&highlight=452x


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## nestly

I thought I would like the BearPaw, but after week or so, I decide to just stop using it before I smashed it into a thousand pieces (thus the only serving tool without a spool in the picture below). The quality and tension control are actually pretty good, but the feel and function are lousy compared to everything else I've ever used. It's not good in tight quarters or for beginning or ending servings because it wants to flip sideways letting the serving come out of the groove, and when it does, 50% of the time it also jumps off the top roller and gets squeezed between the end of the roller and the plastic housing. It's got potential to rival the Beiter if they'd make a few changes but with it's current design, I've got no use for it.

Here are my choices in order:

1) *Beiter Winder* - a little bulky, but quality and tension control is unmatched. I use these primarily for end and roller servings that are long because the tension is very consistent (BCY 2X / 014 Halo, etc)

2) *???* - I actually don't know the name of these but I've had a handful of them since the 90's. They work really well for serving materials that tend to bunch/bind on the spool because the 2 stage tension control allows you to reduce the spool tension and still keep the overall tension the same. I mostly used these for Center servings (BCY 62XS, Brownell Diamondback, etc)

3) *Cavalier* (may also be sold under the name Cartel?) - Simple design and inexpensive. Pretty good until the tiny aluminum tabs break off and you need a wrench to hold the bolt from turning while adjusting the wing nut. All of mine have since been drilled with an additional dowel to keep the bolt from turning while adjusting the tension.

4) *Spigarelli* - The best serving tool nobody knows about. Craftsmanship and quality of this tool is first rate. All metal construction, including brass spool bushings (you don't even get that with Beiter). The 3 pins are machined and held in with e-clips. The tension control is pretty smooth and consistent and the small size is great for tight areas.

5) *BearPaw* - I said enough about this one in the first paragraph. My next review of the Bear Paw will probably be how well it holds up to high speed impact with a concrete wall.


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## Red Voodoo

How about serving string? Halo? Size? I know this has been talked about, but there is so much info on this tread that it seems overwhelming. Have been reading and about half way through. Funny thing is, my father en law has helped cut some steel for me, and now he is making one. He doesn't even shoot a bow. He said looks fun and likes to tinker. Ask him what he was going to do with it when finished? He said, give it to you I guess.


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## nestly

I like BCY No. 2X for end and roller servings. It's twisted so it flattens out more than braided servings resulting in a smoother finished surface. The flattening effect also means the overall diameter of the served string will be smaller than with comparable size braided servings, so it's great for cams with narrow string grooves and/or heavier strings or cables (ie more strands). I was initially a little concerned because No. 2X serving material has a lower tensile strength than BCY No. 3D end serving, but so far no issues at all.... perhaps because it's not as tight in the cam groove (ie less friction with the sides of the groove). 

For center, I primarily use BCY 62XS (.018 or .021 depending on the number of strands in the string and/or if the person wants a loose or tight nock fit) 

Ultimately, there's a lot of flexibility in how you build a complete string, so there is no single combination of materials that is the "best". Trial and error... and keep lots of notes you can refer to, such as how the nock fit is with a certain serving materials on a 20 strand string vs a 24 strand string. 

http://www.bcyfibers.com/Serving.php


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## Huntinsker

For serving, I like halo for ends, especially on buss cable ends that get chewed up a lot, and I've really like BCY Powergrip for center serving. I had been using 62xs for a long time but this Powergrip holds better without separating. I had some separation on my Fury sets with 62xs and after switching to Powergrip, I haven't had a problem with it since.


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## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> For serving, I like halo for ends, especially on buss cable ends that get chewed up a lot, and I've really like BCY Powergrip for center serving. I had been using 62xs for a long time but this Powergrip holds better without separating. I had some separation on my Fury sets with 62xs and after switching to Powergrip, I haven't had a problem with it since.


Now i have to agree too.. but be aware with powergrip.. the finished size is slightly larger .018 will give you around the same size as .021 in 62xs... Powergrip is also available in a few solid colors


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## nestly

jameswk said:


> .... with powergrip.. the finished size is slightly larger .018 will give you around the same size as .021 in 62xs... Powergrip is also available in a few solid colors


I picked up a spool of BCY Powergrip after reading 60X's review but haven't tried it yet. The review also noted the same thing so I got .018 instead of .021.


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## Huntinsker

Yep the finished diameter with .018 Powergrip is close to what I was getting with .021 62xs but it's a little smaller. I switched to the Gold Tip GTO nock and bushing and the nock was too tight on my 28 strands of Fury and .021 62xs. The same string re-served with .018 Powergrip fits my GTO nocks perfectly now.


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## michaelgentry87

Got two of my split yokes built
Found out to pay attention cause 
I ended serving up 12 inches instead of 7


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## michaelgentry87




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## b0w_bender

nestly said:


> I thought I would like the BearPaw, but after week or so, I decide to just stop using it before I smashed it into a thousand pieces (thus the only serving tool without a spool in the picture below). The quality and tension control are actually pretty good, but the feel and function are lousy compared to everything else I've ever used. It's not good in tight quarters or for beginning or ending servings because it wants to flip sideways letting the serving come out of the groove, and when it does, 50% of the time it also jumps off the top roller and gets squeezed between the end of the roller and the plastic housing. It's got potential to rival the Beiter if they'd make a few changes but with it's current design, I've got no use for it.


Nestly.. take a look at this post I did, modifying your bear paw makes a big difference.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2695850&highlight=bearpaw

I would agree thought he best tension control is from the Beiter.


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## nestly

Thanks for the idea, I'll definitely give that a try. If it works, I may try close the slot in the Beiter also as I really don't like slots, I'd rather just feed the thread through a hole, even if it is a bit tedious at times.


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## Cannon Fodder

Should D97 be stretched to the recommend 300-350lbs like 452x-etc. or something lower? I stuck my old OE string on the stretcher at 150 lbs and it has dropped to about 125 after 15 or so minutes. It has been curled up in a bag for a year or so and it isn't to its 88-1/4" length at the moment, something like 88" or 88-1/8". The string is about 5 years old so that may be part of it too.

Thanks.


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## Binary cam man

The bear paw is a awesome tool. But there is a learning curve. If you keep the grove slot running the way your serving it's not pushing toward the slot. I put some wax on the spool holders and tighten it down. I can serve very fast with it because of the design. I also have the beiter. Another great tool. There is a new design beiter out that's next for me. I have a cartel another great tool. I use it for .008 and other small servings. Take the time and practice and learn. It's good to have more than one. You can spool them up and they are ready to go.


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## Huntinsker

Cannon Fodder said:


> Should D97 be stretched to the recommend 300-350lbs like 452x-etc. or something lower? I stuck my old OE string on the stretcher at 150 lbs and it has dropped to about 125 after 15 or so minutes. It has been curled up in a bag for a year or so and it isn't to its 88-1/4" length at the moment, something like 88" or 88-1/8". The string is about 5 years old so that may be part of it too.
> 
> Thanks.


No reason it can't be stretched to those tensions. It's likely that your string wasn't really stretched to begin with when it was built. D97 is 100% SK75 Dyneema. Because it is a large diameter strand without any vectran, it's going to stretch more than the more modern fibers. It's something you're going to have to account for when building. You'll have to set your initial post setting shorter than you would if you were using a more stable material.


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## caspian

nestly said:


> 1) *Beiter Winder*


my advice is to just buy the Beiter and be done with it. get the pro version with the stainless rollers, and personally I prefer the heavy version - I've not had a need to use a lighter tension than it provides. I think I have 6 or so.



> 4) *Spigarelli* - The best serving tool nobody knows about. Craftsmanship and quality of this tool is first rate. All metal construction, including brass spool bushings (you don't even get that with Beiter). The 3 pins are machined and held in with e-clips. The tension control is pretty smooth and consistent and the small size is great for tight areas.


I use one of these for doing crossbow centre servings because it's the only jig I can find with a slot that accommodates the larger diameter thread without hassles. the tension control is OK. the jig itself is far too light for serious work but at the tension I do crossbow centre servings, everything needs to be wound around by hand. 



> 5) *BearPaw* - I said enough about this one in the first paragraph. My next review of the Bear Paw will probably be how well it holds up to high speed impact with a concrete wall.


the bear paw is a fair sort of idea poorly implemented. too light and the tension won't stay put. I gave mine away to a friend when he started making strings, he apologised to me when he regifted it. I told him no worries, if he had learned enough to pick a bad jig when he saw one, it had done its job in transferring skills.


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## caspian

michaelgentry87 said:


> .


not bad at all. try going 15 turns on your back serve, serve the loop tight, and don't be afraid to give the tag end a good snug down with a pair of needle nosed pliers and you won't need to burn the cut end. I only burn ends now when doing nylon trad strings with Brownell #4, because it's so weak it won't take the stress of a hard backserve or a decent tensioning tug without breaking off, so burning the tag end is prudent.

you also might want to lose the mostly burnt cigarette end out of the pic!


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## michaelgentry87

sorry my dog got excited nocked my ashtray over


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## Woodyshvlhead

Just put a new custom string and cable on my Arena 30 but you can bet your keester after reading this the next set will be my own build Thanks a ton for the info and inspiration


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## automan26

Woodyshvlhead said:


> Just put a new custom string and cable on my Arena 30 but you can bet your keester after reading this the next set will be my own build Thanks a ton for the info and inspiration


Welcome to the addiction my friend. You are going to get hooked and will love every minute of string building.

Automan


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## Woodyshvlhead

automan26 said:


> Welcome to the addiction my friend. You are going to get hooked and will love every minute of string building.
> 
> Automan


Thanks Automan26 I've been back into Archery for a few years now and there are no (what I would consider) competent shops within 80 or so miles So I am slowly. Building my shop up to decent standards I'm going to try and get the jig built this winter and make my Bear Sentry fish bow a string that should get me started. 1 question that bow also has cables can they be made or are you at the mercy of trying to find a new set


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## Red Voodoo

Got my welding done today. Hope to get string post drilled and tapped tomorow, along with hex bolts for unistrut. Still deciding on single or double post for other end. Thinking about making the double with one removable. Sorry for it being rotated. Posted from phone and couldn't rotate.


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## jameswk

looks pretty sweet


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## Huntinsker

Red Voodoo said:


> Got my welding done today. Hope to get string post drilled and tapped tomorow, along with hex bolts for unistrut. Still deciding on single or double post for other end. Thinking about making the double with one removable. Sorry for it being rotated. Posted from phone and couldn't rotate.
> View attachment 2698113


Looks awesome! Should get the job done nicely.


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## michaelgentry87

Can u guys help me how to serve next to my end loops I can't seem to get it


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## jameswk

It takes some practice to get really clean ends... I suggest tightening your serving jig when you get to the wrapped part of the end and going slow making sure you lay each strand perfectly...


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## michaelgentry87

Is it easier to work away from or towards


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## jameswk

Serve heading towards your loop


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## michaelgentry87

K , cause I am tag end serving 1 inch then going back a 1/4 inch over and it seem difficult to get up on there lol and close em


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## jameswk

Are your tag ends offset a little from each other so as to create a ramp so to speak


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## michaelgentry87

No I haven't I have been weaving them in at the same length


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## jameswk

Wrap one a little long it will help the serving transition up the wraps


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## michaelgentry87

Got ya ty sir


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## jameswk

No problem


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## Huntinsker

I definitely get better serving transitions when serving towards the loops and when I "step down" the tag ends under the serving.


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## michaelgentry87

So offset em about 1/4 inch


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## jameswk

Not even 5-6 wraps farther would do it


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## michaelgentry87

This is another yoke for my darton I just did
Looks better to me last 20 wraps was by hand 
I think I need a better winder have an aae
What yall think 
And I set my jig for 8 lb payout


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## michaelgentry87

BTW what is this I got these on a couple strings after serving


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## michaelgentry87

Not the little black thing but the wrinkle thing above it


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## Huntinsker

Ahh you got "the bumps". No one really knows exactly what causes it. I used to have them and then I changed how I burnished. I used to do little strokes down the string, about 2' at a time and I noticed where I stopped and started, I'd get a bump. I started doing long smooth strokes all the way up and down the string and the bumps went away. Don't know for sure that's what caused it or not because others have offered other plausible theories and fixes that seemed to work for them.

Either way, they will disappear when on the bow and they don't have any effect on the performance of the string that I can tell.


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## michaelgentry87

And the transition thingy works great


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## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> And the transition thingy works great


Yeah they're looking better for sure. It just takes time and practice. You'll get better every time you do it.


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## michaelgentry87

I tried to pull tight with needle nose it keeps slipping and have to use my hand and cutting the crap outa my fingers
Does it look tight enough I turned the aae all the way up and 8th turn back 
I apreciate the help


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## soldier1265

I cut the tag end long and roll it onto an Allen wrench, then pull tight. But not too tight. I've broken Halo by pulling it too tight. You'll get a feel for how tight to go.


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## michaelgentry87

Lol yes I figured that out broke my halo had to take it all off


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## Huntinsker

It looks pretty good. Hard to tell how tight something looks from a picture. The best thing you can do to get better serving is to use better tools. The Beiter Winder is the way to go for sure. I couldn't believe it when I finally got one. The serving comes off so much smoother and with very consistent tension.


----------



## michaelgentry87

I'm a probably go with that


----------



## nestly

michaelgentry87 said:


> I tried to pull tight with needle nose it keeps slipping and have to use my hand and cutting the crap outa my fingers


With only two exceptions, every time I cut the string material or the serving material loose from the spool, I tie an overhand knot with a loop and insert a hitch pin into the loop. A "decent" pair of Hemostats work better than any pair of pliers I've ever used for pulling loose ends of string material/serving. Clamp the thread in the jaw and twist it a half a dozen times.


----------



## Huntinsker

Yep I use hemostats too. At work we have a great old pair of needle nose pliers that work better actually but I've never been able to find a duplicate pair that works as well as those. Don't worry about a little bit of waist when leaving your tag ends a little longer. That extra length will be worth it when you have an easier time pulling things tight and end up with a better product because of it.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Dumb question. Um has any one tried to use anything else for uh speed nicks. Like solder


----------



## caspian

I saw a 40lb compound dry fired three weekends ago and 5 of the 6 brass speed nocks departed like bullets. if you have to use the things, get the slip-on ones.


----------



## michaelgentry87

The fruits of my labor and everything was in spec


----------



## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> The fruits of my labor and everything was in spec


They look great! Well done :thumbs_up


----------



## caspian

very tidy loops and end serving.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Trying pinstripe for my son's bow


----------



## michaelgentry87

Question on the cables for my 4500
I went to put on some speed sleeves and took the string off and the string was all wavy ( serving and all)
I used 24 strands of bcy x and halo .014


----------



## nestly

I would guess inconsistent strand tension when laying up the string. Basically the shortest/tightest strands will straighten out in the bundle and the longer/looser strands will wrap around them. I used to have a process to even out all the strands after the string was layed up but before the loop(s) were closed, but it's better to have a really rigid string jig and try to maintain consistent tension on the spool while laying up the string. 

Here's a related demo by BowBender


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaQTXWTxKrM


----------



## michaelgentry87

Hmm maybe but it was only at one end idk 
Idk how to work out the tension


----------



## jameswk

Ok Guys I need help.. So i have a question about putting a piece of scrap in the string during the build for peep insertion. Normally its easy enough with a 2 color string that i dont worry about using one. On the other hand though.... making a solid color or solid with pin is proving that i need to rethink not using this piece. so my question is When do you put them in the string i would think it would get in the way of burnishing if placed before hand... but, will it cause a problem if placed in afterwards? I'd like to start using them for all my strings now for ease but i would appreciate everyones advise on when to put it in... thanks in advance guys


----------



## bryanroberts

jameswk said:


> Ok Guys I need help.. So i have a question about putting a piece of scrap in the string during the build for peep insertion. Normally its easy enough with a 2 color string that i dont worry about using one. On the other hand though.... making a solid color or solid with pin is proving that i need to rethink not using this piece. so my question is When do you put them in the string i would think it would get in the way of burnishing if placed before hand... but, will it cause a problem if placed in afterwards? I'd like to start using them for all my strings now for ease but i would appreciate everyones advise on when to put it in... thanks in advance guys


I put mine in at the same time I put the scrap pieces to chase the pins. By the time your burnishing the tension is so tight it holds without pulling out. I just burnish right by and have never noticed it messing anything up. I'm in for how everyone else does it cause if there is a better time i would sure try it. I've always done it this way and never noticed a problem.


----------



## jameswk

So you just burnish right over top of it?


----------



## GrayTech

Why bother with a marker, just measure peep height from nock point. 
It's better to press the bow to insert peep, then you can split string evenly and have it facing forward with no rotation.


----------



## bryanroberts

GrayTech said:


> Why bother with a marker, just measure peep height from nock point.
> It's better to press the bow to insert peep, then you can split string evenly and have it facing forward with no rotation.


I use a press all the time when installing peep sight but Brownell Fury does not seperate the strands like bcy x or 452x. It's hard to explain unless you've seen it. It's a mess without a scrap piece to half it.


----------



## bryanroberts

jameswk said:


> So you just burnish right over top of it?


Yah I have been. I used to burnish right up to it and then start on the other end and burnish up to it again but after I got a case of the bumps right there I just started burnishing all the way from one end to the other.


----------



## jameswk

GrayTech said:


> Why bother with a marker, just measure peep height from nock point.
> It's better to press the bow to insert peep, then you can split string evenly and have it facing forward with no rotation.


I dont want it there to mark peep location i want it to ensure even strands on both sides of peep especially with a solid color string. 




bryanroberts said:


> Yah I have been. I used to burnish right up to it and then start on the other end and burnish up to it again but after I got a case of the bumps right there I just started burnishing all the way from one end to the other.


Thats my thoughts exactly I was worried about bunching coming at it from both sides... I will have to give it a try.


----------



## Cannon Fodder

A little over built but the HD and TSC didn't have the bar stock so I improvised with a tractor drawbar. :laugh2:










I also decided to build a set of 4 posts also, need to bend the screws straight before I cut them off.


----------



## bryanroberts

jameswk said:


> So you just burnish right over top of it?


I made a string tonight for one of my bows with realtree apg. Fury 7 green 1 black 6 grey. Well when I was making it I realized that I don't burnish over the scrap piece. When I was just thinking about it today I thought that was probably what I did. I realized tonight that I burnish right up to it then move the scrap down some towards where I just burnished then continue where I left off till the end. I don't get any bumps this way. If you came from both ends towards the scrap you would run the chance of leaving bumps towards the middle.


----------



## bryanroberts

Cannon Fodder said:


> View attachment 2784026
> 
> 
> A little over built but the HD and TSC didn't have the bar stock so I improvised with a tractor drawbar. :laugh2:
> 
> 
> View attachment 2784034
> 
> 
> I also decided to build a set of 4 posts also, need to bend the screws straight before I cut them off.


Wow.. You definetly won't have a problem flexing that tractor bar! Not just great improvising but a good solid alternative.


----------



## Purka

It shouldn't be a problem if you burnish up to the scrap thread than drag the scrap into the burnished area and than continue burnishing the rest.


----------



## Cannon Fodder

bryanroberts said:


> Wow.. You definetly won't have a problem flexing that tractor bar! Not just great improvising but a good solid alternative.


And I didn't have to drill any holes.

But it does take a long time to cut with a sawzall, about 30-45 minutes a cut. I had to make 4 cuts total with leaving the taper to the pins and a ~5" section from the center as scrap. The draw bar wasn't much more than the bar stock than wasn't in stock.


The downside, this this is now real heavy.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Pinstripe


----------



## impactwrench

So after lots of reading, lurcking, gathering supplies, and machining I finished my string jig. Still a work in progress and will get modified again before I'm happy with the outcome but had to give it a try. This is the second attempt at a cable for my daughter's Atomic. First one came out the right size but wasn't happy with the look. Try and try again.


----------



## impactwrench

The other end of jig. Can be a 3 post or 2 post


----------



## bryanroberts

impactwrench said:


> So after lots of reading, lurcking, gathering supplies, and machining I finished my string jig. Still a work in progress and will get modified again before I'm happy with the outcome but had to give it a try. This is the second attempt at a cable for my daughter's Atomic. First one came out the right size but wasn't happy with the look. Try and try again.
> View attachment 2790418


Sweet!! Nice jig!


----------



## impactwrench

Thanks! Not the best pic of it but never claimed to be a professional photographer.


----------



## talonone

lots of good info


----------



## b0w_bender

impactwrench said:


> So after lots of reading, lurcking, gathering supplies, and machining I finished my string jig. Still a work in progress and will get modified again before I'm happy with the outcome but had to give it a try. This is the second attempt at a cable for my daughter's Atomic. First one came out the right size but wasn't happy with the look. Try and try again.


Nice looking Jig. the "work in progress" statement is kind of a given for this forum... :icon_1_lol:


----------



## michaelgentry87

I have a dumb question 

Thought of this today almost ran out of thread 
But let's say u get halfway done serving a string and run out....didn't realize u didn't have enough
What do u do leave it on the jig at low pressure for 2 days till material arrives start over is the quality string done


----------



## nestly

michaelgentry87 said:


> I have a dumb question
> 
> Thought of this today almost ran out of thread
> But let's say u get halfway done serving a string and run out....didn't realize u didn't have enough
> What do u do leave it on the jig at low pressure for 2 days till material arrives start over is the quality string done


As long as your loops are closed, I wouldn't worry about it. I've left both finished and unfinished strings on the stretcher at 100# for a few days, it doesn't seem to make any difference. The bowstring is probably under 100# all the time when installed on the bow... (cables are under less tension, they don't see high tension until the bow is drawn)


----------



## michaelgentry87

Good deal was just wondering I seen a minimum relax time of 5 hours and I was like man I'd hate to run out of material, 
Did find a good lesson tho 
Read serving dimension I misread and added 8 inches had to untwi st don't ask me how lol


----------



## GrayTech

jameswk said:


> I dont want it there to mark peep location i want it to ensure even strands on both sides of peep especially with a solid color string.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats my thoughts exactly I was worried about bunching coming at it from both sides... I will have to give it a try.





bryanroberts said:


> I use a press all the time when installing peep sight but Brownell Fury does not seperate the strands like bcy x or 452x. It's hard to explain unless you've seen it. It's a mess without a scrap piece to half it.


It's all good and well to split the string equally with a marker piece, but how do you know whether it's gonna face the right direction before you put it on the bow. That's assuming you don't need extra twists for adjustment etc.


----------



## nestly

I always assume the peep orientation will need to be fine tuned by twisting the string after it's installed. Because the peep is above the center of the string, half a twist *added the top* will rotate the peep a bit more than 1/4 turn.... half a twist *subtracted from the bottom* will be a bit less than 1/4 turn in in the same direction. You can use that to obtain virtually an peep orientation without changing the total number of twists in the string by more than 2 twists, which is insignificant


----------



## Red Voodoo

Finished my jig setup today. Here is a picture of initial layout.








To final product.


----------



## nestly

Red Voodoo said:


> Finished my jig setup today. Here is a picture of initial layout.
> 
> To final product.


I like your design. 

Mine was similar but evolved into below. I ended up with an air cylinder instead of a spring, so the tension remains consistent as the string is shortened during twisting. The hex drive shaft and roller chain lets me serve by rotating the string (~ 0 - 600RPM) rather than rotating the serving tool around the string. Regarding the flat bar your posts are mounted to, curious how much flex you get? I see lots of bars that look pretty thin. I used 3/8" x 1 1/2" previously (right side of 2nd pic) and there was just too much flex in it, especially when turned perpendicular to the strut when used as a 4 post. Upgraded to 3/4" x 2" (Left)... now it's good and solid.


----------



## b0w_bender

RedVoodoo that's a real nice unit I like the brace. I think I like the one in the design better though the longer one looks like it might interfere with the bobbin?

Nestly that is over the top for the home builder but super nice! I guess if you have the resources to make it then why not. I always thought that a control rod running from one post to the next was the way to do it. What kind of motor are you running it with?


----------



## Red Voodoo

I thought about that also. If it does, I will cut it off and go with a gusset as in the design. I didn't have any steel plate laying around, but did have the rod.


----------



## nestly

b0w_bender said:


> Nestly that is over the top for the home builder but super nice! I guess if you have the resources to make it then why not. I always thought that a control rod running from one post to the next was the way to do it. What kind of motor are you running it with?


You might be surprised how much of it was done with a cheap drill press, a 4 1/2" grinder, and an account at McMaster-Carr. Minor contributions from Tractor Supply and Ace Hardware. Right now I'm still turning it with an 18V Dewalt cordless drill, but I have a variable speed DC drive and motor.... when I get around to it.


----------



## Red Voodoo

nestly said:


> I like your design.
> 
> Mine was similar but evolved into below. I ended up with an air cylinder instead of a spring, so the tension remains consistent as the string is shortened during twisting. The hex drive shaft and roller chain lets me serve by rotating the string (~ 0 - 600RPM) rather than rotating the serving tool around the string. Regarding the flat bar your posts are mounted to, curious how much flex you get? I see lots of bars that look pretty thin. I used 3/8" x 1 1/2" previously (right side of 2nd pic) and there was just too much flex in it, especially when turned perpendicular to the strut when used as a 4 post. Upgraded to 3/4" x 2" (Left)... now it's good and solid.


I used 1/2 " x 3" A R bar. A bit wide, but was able to pick up for free. I would like to see a video of yours working. Looks great. Got some sample string in today. Need to get serving string and put it to work.


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## Red Voodoo

Since nobody is selling their Beiter serving tool, wonder why? I guess I will have to go ahead and purchase one new. My question is does the twister attachment help make the serving process eisier or better, or not needed?


----------



## b0w_bender

Red Voodoo said:


> Since nobody is selling their Beiter serving tool, wonder why? I guess I will have to go ahead and purchase one new. My question is does the twister attachment help make the serving process eisier or better, or not needed?


I've seen some folks use it with a rubber band and a drill press but from my experience with the higher tensions we tend to run with the clear servings the friction makes it a challenge to spin. Of course my next statement is some what of a sales pitch but the NWSpinner is a very popular option


----------



## nestly

Red Voodoo said:


> ..... I would like to see a video of yours working.


Here ya go. 






Ack! .... Stupid Sony and their proprietary .MTS video format, I don't know how to convert the video to something Youtube will process without loosing a lot of frames per seconds.


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## jameswk

That's awesome!


----------



## jameswk

Red Voodoo said:


> Since nobody is selling their Beiter serving tool, wonder why? I guess I will have to go ahead and purchase one new. My question is does the twister attachment help make the serving process eisier or better, or not needed?


I had the same question when I got mine... Ended up going with nwspinner... Glad I did


----------



## b0w_bender

nestly said:


> Ack! .... Stupid Sony and their proprietary .MTS video format, I don't know how to convert the video to something Youtube will process without loosing a lot of frames per seconds.


I Hate Sony's crap too, I use format factory to convert mine.
http://www.pcfreetime.com/

By the way that Jig is still way cool!


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## nestly

b0w_bender said:


> I Hate Sony's crap too, I use format factory to convert mine.
> http://www.pcfreetime.com/


THANKS, that seems to do the trick. Here's one with better FPS so you can really appreciate how fast the serving is being layed down.


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## doulos

I have a newbie greenhorn question about stretching. What is the minimum poundage required and duration of stretch to have a stable string?


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## michaelgentry87

300ish


----------



## Huntinsker

Wow! I've been out of town for several days and wasn't able to check in. Looks like some really good stuff has been posted. Some really cool jigs and good questions and answers. Thanks for keeping the DIY string building thread alive and a welcoming place to learn. Really appreciate all you contributors.

Nestly, that jig is AWESOME!! I saw a video of GRIV making a catfish loop on his string jig and he had something similar to spin the string. I've been dreaming up ideas, mostly bad ideas, of how to make one some day when I get out of this crappy 1 bedroom apartment and have the space to dedicate to all my toys. I may have to hit you up for some info and ideas in how to make one like yours. That is really outstanding DIY work you've done there.


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## automan26

It's good to see you back!!! You were missed.

Automan


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## Red Voodoo

*calibrating tension spring*

If I purchased the compression spring that is used by many on here. What would give me the poundage I need to be able to mark s setting of 100, 200, 300 and 400 pounds. I would prefer no to purchase a scale for a one time use if possible, unless this is something I should check every so often.


----------



## automan26

You could take your spring to any automotive machine shop and have them test the tension for you. They compress the spring and measure its height for any poundage you are looking for. Take their measurements and make a scale from a piece of wood or plastic and use that as a gauge to set your tension. If you go to an automotive shop there is a very good chance that they will have a bucket full of old used Chevy valve springs and they might just give you one for free. They could also measure the compressed height for the various poundage settings you desire.

When I build my strings using the Chevy valve springs I only worry about measuring for 100#. If I know the 100# height and then stretch my string to the spring's coil bind position when stretching it, I get perfect strings every time.

Automan


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## nestly

Are you using the blue "K81" spring from McMaster-Carr? If so, I can use the air cylinder on my stretching rig to measure the compressed length of the spring at any poundage up to 365#


----------



## automan26

nestly said:


> Are you using the blue "K81" spring from McMaster-Carr? If so, I can use the air cylinder on my stretching rig to measure the compressed length of the spring at any poundage up to 365#


No, I am using the Chevy spring that will max out around 325#.

Automan


----------



## nestly

Sorry for the confusion... my question was intended for Red Voodoo. 
I tried a valve spring too, but couldn't get enough out of the one I had. Bought several different ones from McMaster, but they're all in storage now after switching to a pneumatic tensioning system.


----------



## Red Voodoo

Yes, I purchased the spring with part no. 9573K810 from McMaster. Any help would be great so I can stay cheep on this build. Only have about $110 in so far. Would like to keep from purchasing a digital scale and have a 50% cost increase.


----------



## Red Voodoo

If possible would like measurement for #100, #200 and #300, if that is not asking to much.


----------



## Huntinsker

Red Voodoo said:


> Yes, I purchased the spring with part no. 9573K810 from McMaster. Any help would be great so I can stay cheep on this build. Only have about $110 in so far. Would like to keep from purchasing a digital scale and have a 50% cost increase.


Personally, I think it's worth getting a scale so that you can check your jig once in a while and recalibrate if needed. Do a google shopping search for "550lb dial scale" and for $20 you can have one that will go as high as you'll ever need. Could even weigh your deer with it if you want.


----------



## nestly

Red Voodoo said:


> If possible would like measurement for #100, #200 and #300, if that is not asking to much.


According to the advertised spring rate, the 9573K810 spring should be 265 lbs at 25% compression (1.5") so its' pretty much right on compared to my readings.

2.04" uncompressed
1.83" @ 100 lbs
1.59" @ 200 lbs
1.44" @ 300 lbs
1.33" @ 350 lbs


----------



## aread

nestly said:


> THANKS, that seems to do the trick. Here's one with better FPS so you can really appreciate how fast the serving is being layed down.


That is a great jig!! Any chance of getting you to post a build thread with a few more photos and parts list?
Thanks for posting the video, there is a lot of information there.
Allen


----------



## nestly

aread said:


> That is a great jig!! Any chance of getting you to post a build thread with a few more photos and parts list?


Hmmm... maybe after the patent is approved...  Just kidding. Yeah, I've gotten other requests, so I'll try to put together plans and materials. The two most expensive items are the air cylinder and the hex bushings for the drive shaft. The cylinder I understand, but someone's sitting on a beach somewhere drinking from a coconut shell while having their feet rubbed with the profit they're making on that little piece of 5/8 round stock with a 3/8 hex hole through it.


----------



## Bansteadman

Hello, I offered to make up one of these jigs for the compound archers at my club but was told that with today's strings there is no need to apply so much pressure and they simply use a normal string jig. The 119 pages on here suggest they might be missing something, but as I don't shoot compound I have no answer. Can anyone enlighten me?
Thanks.


----------



## Huntinsker

Bansteadman said:


> Hello, I offered to make up one of these jigs for the compound archers at my club but was told that with today's strings there is no need to apply so much pressure and they simply use a normal string jig. The 119 pages on here suggest they might be missing something, but as I don't shoot compound I have no answer. Can anyone enlighten me?
> Thanks.


I've seen some European guys making strings with pretty flimsy jigs. In my opinion, that's okay if you don't mind getting inconsistent results and having to tune your bow a lot. I've seen first hand the effects of stretching a string or cable up to high tension vs not stretching them at all. While your string will eventually settle on the bow if you haven't stretched them, it will take time and it will cause you to have to re-tune quite a bit. To each their own but I'm all about making it easy on myself so I stretch them out plenty before they get put on the bow.


----------



## aread

Bansteadman said:


> Hello, I offered to make up one of these jigs for the compound archers at my club but was told that with today's strings there is no need to apply so much pressure and they simply use a normal string jig. The 119 pages on here suggest they might be missing something, but as I don't shoot compound I have no answer. Can anyone enlighten me?
> Thanks.


The main thing you gain with high tension is avoiding or shortening the break-in period for strings. The strings you build with a flimsy jig can be safe and functional, but it may take several hundred arrows to get them to stabilize. 

Recurve bows don't need to worry about peep rotation, so the need for pre-stretching is less. 

I build strings for both my compounds and recurves and I build them both the same. Pre-stretching yields a more stable string from the start for all types of bows.


----------



## Huntinsker

I'll also add that the higher the tension on the string when you serve, the less likely you'll have peep rotation. The high tension also makes the string bundle smaller before serving so that when you take the string off the stretcher, the bundle will try to expand and will lock itself even tighter against the serving which will help prevent serving separation.


----------



## schdp

So I have been working with my string jig that is setup like the ones here... My first string was with some left over white 452X material, after about 3 test strings I felt comfortable enough to build a full set for my 2015 Prime One-MX. I used Halo .014 serving and all went GREAT! So onto the second set for my son's bow which is the same model and year but this time got some Flo Green BCY-X and black Halo .017. Well the string and serving won't fit in the cams.

Back to the measuring board, 
string diameter, original ~.080, new one ~.088
string + serving diameter, original ~.100, new one ~.118
Both have 24 strands of BCYX but I did check the serving size of the original and it seems to be .007. 

So it looks like something is making my initial bundle larger, thoughts?
Any one else out there building a string for a Prime bow, do you have to use this smaller material?

Great thread and Thanks so much for all the help!


----------



## nestly

I've only done one Prime (Prime Defy) but the two-track cam grooves were considerably narrower than a typical string/cable groove. For the two-track yokes, I used 14 strands of 452X, then served with BCY 2X for a finished dia. of 0.078". The cable grooves are normal width to accept normal diameter strings/cables.

Twisted serving materials (BCY 2X) will elongate and lay "flatter" than braided servings such as BCY Halo and BCY 3D, which remain "rounder". Twisted serving materials will also be "smoother", so unless specifically requested, I think twisted is a better option both for cam grooves and roller servings.

I keep records of what each type of serving adds to the string diameter, but as a general rule, a .014 braided serving isn't .014 dia, rather that's how much it will *add* to the string diameter. If you're measuring .014 halo at .007, that's about right (.007 + .007 = .014.) Twisted serving materials typically add less to the string dia. than their advertised "diameter"


----------



## b0w_bender

I've herd tell that on the florescent colors you get a lot of wax infused into the fiber and because of that tend to be fatter. I have no personal experience with it but I have read that.


----------



## bryanroberts

b0w_bender said:


> I've herd tell that on the florescent colors you get a lot of wax infused into the fiber and because of that tend to be fatter. I have no personal experience with it but I have read that.


I have seen this with flo colors on bcy x and fury. Not alot but the bundles will be slightly larger.


----------



## schdp

Thanks for all the responses... I'll see if the local shop has any BCY 2X in stock to try out. Seems I'm about .008 fatter, doesn't seem like much but wow every bit counts in this one!


----------



## nestly

schdp said:


> Thanks for all the responses... I'll see if the local shop has any BCY 2X in stock to try out. Seems I'm about .008 fatter, doesn't seem like much but wow every bit counts in this one!


Here's an image showing the string and serving diameters I'm getting for BCY 452X 20 and 24 strand strings. ( need to add BCY 3D and some of the thicker Halo's to my database) So 2X should reduce the overall Dia. by .008-.009" vs 0.014 Halo... more if you used .017 Halo. Still curious about the strand count for the yokes though, maybe they changed, but the only Prime I did so far wouldn't have accepted a 24 strand string in the two-track, even without any servings


----------



## schdp

This is a great chart, local shop had some by .008 in stock so I need to get home to try it out. I haven't done the yokes yet but planned on it after I get the main strings. I'll count them out first and post what I come up with.


----------



## schdp

I think I need to work on my de-waxing step to help get the initial bundle size lower as well.


----------



## caspian

b0w_bender said:


> I've herd tell that on the florescent colors you get a lot of wax infused into the fiber and because of that tend to be fatter. I have no personal experience with it but I have read that.


definitely the case with 8125 and 8125G. I make quite a few strings for some high end recurvers, they use the Beiter nocking points and the string diameter needs to be just right for the nock halves or they split afterwards. the flouro colours caused issues with this. the archers in question didn't want to drop a strand or two so I got around it by pre-serving the area for 24 hours to compress the string bundle, they fit OK then.


----------



## lachypetersen22

b0w_bender said:


> I've herd tell that on the florescent colors you get a lot of wax infused into the fiber and because of that tend to be fatter. I have no personal experience with it but I have read that.



I thought it is the extra die not wax.


----------



## nestly

lachypetersen22 said:


> I thought it is the extra die not wax.


I haven't noticed a significant difference in serving diameters between different colors. There can be a significant difference in the amount of wax between different colors and/or batches of the same color, but IMO, almost all the excess is removed during burnishing, and whatever small excess may still exist after burnishing gets pushed out ahead of the serving jig. (granted, I'm fairly confident that I serve tighter than most stringmakers) 

I don't specifically recall anything about thickness and dyes, but the BCY FAQ does stated that some colors may be slightly heavier due to solids it some of the dyes.


----------



## caspian

lachypetersen22 said:


> I thought it is the extra die not wax.


the dye is actually delivered onto the neutral base material as a coloured wax.


----------



## lachypetersen22

caspian said:


> the dye is actually delivered onto the neutral base material as a coloured wax.



So I was kind of right haha.😉


----------



## Purka

nestly said:


> I keep records of what each type of serving adds to the string diameter, but as a general rule, a .014 braided serving isn't .014 dia, rather that's how much it will *add* to the string diameter. If you're measuring .014 halo at .007, that's about right (.007 + .007 = .014.) Twisted serving materials typically add less to the string dia. than their advertised "diameter"


When I measure .014 Halo with my callipers it measures approximately .014.


----------



## nestly

Yeah, I sort of mis-spoke with regard to Halo's measured diameter. Halo does measure fairly close to it's advertised dia, (I get .011-.012) but other products are not. BCY 2X for example, is advertised as .015 dia. which might lead someone think it's a thicker serving than .014 Halo, but X2 only measures .008", and is clearly a much "thinner" serving material than .014 Halo when applied. Similarly, I normally use BCY .021 XS to achieve .110 - .111 center serving diameter, but if someone requests BCY Powergrip, I have to use .018 to get the same nock fit. It seems the stated diameter is only a reference against other sizes of the same material, it can't really be used to predict finished serving diameters, or even relative thicknesses compared to different serving materials, thus the reason I keep my own records/charts.


----------



## caspian

the amount that serving adds to the finished diameter of a string will differ depending on:

- the diameter of the serving material (hmm, measured at what crush pressure, what tension?)
- what tension it's applied at
- the construction of the material (twisted, braided etc)
- the tension of the base string during application
- the material of the base string
- the number of strands of the base string (interstices)
- how well the base string has been burnished - bundling, amount of wax left etc

sizes are nominal, there are too many variables to nail down a precise number when a few thou' makes the difference between good and poor fit. the only way is to try combinations until you find one that works for you.


----------



## jameswk

:dontknow: ok These bumps are killing me. They only seem to appear on long single cam strings Ive tried chasing with a piece of scrap at 10 twist and again at full twist and only burnishing 1 time... The only thing i can think of is this.. Because the string is longer i need to put more twists in the string before pulling golf tees out maybe go half twists. pull tees chase and finish twist then chase again???? im at a loss ive tried everything you guys recommended when you were seeing them too anyone have any adivce what am i doing wrong how come they dont show up on shorter strings? only on longer ones could it have something to do with the twisting? im loosing my mind with these things:BangHead:


----------



## bryanroberts

jameswk said:


> :dontknow: ok These bumps are killing me. They only seem to appear on long single cam strings Ive tried chasing with a piece of scrap at 10 twist and again at full twist and only burnishing 1 time... The only thing i can think of is this.. Because the string is longer i need to put more twists in the string before pulling golf tees out maybe go half twists. pull tees chase and finish twist then chase again???? im at a loss ive tried everything you guys recommended when you were seeing them too anyone have any adivce what am i doing wrong how come they dont show up on shorter strings? only on longer ones could it have something to do with the twisting? im loosing my mind with these things:BangHead:


When you burnish are you starting at one end and going in one motion all the way to the end? The only time I ever had any of those was when I would burnish in short strokes or stop/start somewhere in the middle of the string.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Found my solution for transferring material onto a bobbin. I had an old Berkeley portable spooling station that I haven't used for awhile.








Then I chucked up the spool from my bearpaw (this is the best use I have found for the bearpaw).








It works like a charm.


----------



## bryanroberts

NoDeerInIowa said:


> Found my solution for transferring material onto a bobbin. I had an old Berkeley portable spooling station that I haven't used for awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I chucked up the spool from my bearpaw (this is the best use I have found for the bearpaw).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It works like a charm.


Sweet! That's awesome. There is a cheap spooling station with a suction cup bottom that tenzing showed me. It's like $12 for anyone interested maybe he will post a link for us.


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> :dontknow: ok These bumps are killing me. They only seem to appear on long single cam strings Ive tried chasing with a piece of scrap at 10 twist and again at full twist and only burnishing 1 time... The only thing i can think of is this.. Because the string is longer i need to put more twists in the string before pulling golf tees out maybe go half twists. pull tees chase and finish twist then chase again???? im at a loss ive tried everything you guys recommended when you were seeing them too anyone have any adivce what am i doing wrong how come they dont show up on shorter strings? only on longer ones could it have something to do with the twisting? im loosing my mind with these things:BangHead:


Sometimes I wonder if it doesn't happen from removing the string from tension too quickly allowing it to "spring" back to a shorter state. Lately I've been more slowly reducing the tension just in case that's something that plays a part in the formation of the bumps. I haven't really had any bumps for a while but I don't want them again either. Maybe they're like chicken pox. You have them for a while and then they go away and you don't have to worry about them again. I hope so anyway haha.


----------



## jameswk

bryanroberts said:


> When you burnish are you starting at one end and going in one motion all the way to the end? The only time I ever had any of those was when I would burnish in short strokes or stop/start somewhere in the middle of the string.


yes I always do that and this last time i did a long string i only made one pass down the string and still got the dang things


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## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> Sometimes I wonder if it doesn't happen from removing the string from tension too quickly allowing it to "spring" back to a shorter state. Lately I've been more slowly reducing the tension just in case that's something that plays a part in the formation of the bumps. I haven't really had any bumps for a while but I don't want them again either. Maybe they're like chicken pox. You have them for a while and then they go away and you don't have to worry about them again. I hope so anyway haha.


ill try that and ill try keeping the tees in longer maybe 1/2 the called for twists before removing... i just cant figure it out and its getting really frustrating


----------



## bryanroberts

www.aliexpress.com


----------



## bryanroberts

jameswk said:


> ill try that and ill try keeping the tees in longer maybe 1/2 the called for twists before removing... i just cant figure it out and its getting really frustrating


Is the bumps all the way around the bundle or only one side or one color?


----------



## nestly

jameswk said:


> :dontknow: ok These bumps are killing me. They only seem to appear on long single cam strings Ive tried chasing with a piece of scrap at 10 twist and again at full twist and only burnishing 1 time... The only thing i can think of is this.. Because the string is longer i need to put more twists in the string before pulling golf tees out maybe go half twists. pull tees chase and finish twist then chase again???? im at a loss ive tried everything you guys recommended when you were seeing them too anyone have any adivce what am i doing wrong how come they dont show up on shorter strings? only on longer ones could it have something to do with the twisting? im loosing my mind with these things:BangHead:


I only ran into "bumps" in the first couple strings I built and I chalked it up to inconsistent strand tension, specifically my theory was the first and last strand were pulled too tight when tag-end serving to close the loops. I don't know for sure that's what made them go away, because I was still changing lots of things as I developed a process, but that seemed to be the most likely.


----------



## jameswk

nestly said:


> I only ran into "bumps" in the first couple strings I built and I chalked it up to inconsistent strand tension, specifically my theory was the first and last strand were pulled too tight when tag-end serving to close the loops. I don't know for sure that's what made them go away, because I was still changing lots of things as I developed a process, but that seemed to be the most likely.


This is entirely possible i try and wrap my tags tight to eliminate them separating however i would think that a pre stretch and long stretch period would take care of this... i will however try it cause anything i try or do is not working...


----------



## nestly

Well, to clarify, I only really meant about the first two wraps with each tag. I used to really crank down on them, to make the opposing wraps really pull tight against each other, but then I realized I was actually flexing the jig and losing a little tension on all the other strands. After two wraps with each tag at moderate tension, then I go ahead and finish the tag end servings while pulling each wrap very tight.


----------



## jameswk

nestly said:


> Well, to clarify, I only really meant about the first two wraps with each tag. I used to really crank down on them, to make the opposing wraps really pull tight against each other, but then I realized I was actually flexing the jig and losing a little tension on all the other strands. After two wraps with each tag at moderate tension, then I go ahead and finish the tag end servings while pulling each wrap very tight.


understood and i may very well be doing the same thing i just dont understand why it would happen only on the longer string


----------



## automan26

I have spent a lot of time analyzing the bump issue, and although I am not able to state a specific cause, (some of what is said above looks promising) I have determined some root issues and a solution that very often works for me. I do believe that the bumps are caused by uneven tensioning of the strands. I have often noticed that bumps will appear in one color bundle and not in another. This leads me to conclude that one bundle has been tensioned differently from the other. The bumps are caused because there is a varying rate of contraction between different parts of the string when the string is being relaxed. 

I have found a partial fix to the solution that you might consider. When adding twists I like to add several more twists than the formula calls for then stretch the string like I would normally. If I find bumps appearing when the string is relaxed I have discovered that the bumps will go away if the string is unwound a few twists then tensioned and burnished vigorously, especially in the area of a bump. 

Last night I built a single color cable, tensioned it up and all looked good until I relaxed the tension and a big bump appeared. I unwound the cable back to spec. stretched it to about 200# and burnished the bump, then stretched it out to 300# and burnished it again, working the bump vigorously. I let it set a short while and when I relaxed it, Mr. Bump had left the building. I let it set all night under no tension and this morning the bump was still absent. I plan to tension it to 300# again and serve it up and I know everything will be fine.

I found in the past that, especially with Fury, if I have the string finished and all is perfect and then I have to add only a few twists, the bumps will appear where they had not been present previously. That led me to the idea that if I over twist, then back off and burnish, the bumps will go away.

This works for me most of the time, but I also think I will try some of the suggestions above to see if I can eliminate the problem before it arises.

Automan


----------



## tenzing

If anyone is interested in a fishing line winder/spooler. Here is the link
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6821175738.html?orderId=68578850587280


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> I have spent a lot of time analyzing the bump issue, and although I am not able to state a specific cause, (some of what is said above looks promising) I have determined some root issues and a solution that very often works for me. I do believe that the bumps are caused by uneven tensioning of the strands. I have often noticed that bumps will appear in one color bundle and not in another. This leads me to conclude that one bundle has been tensioned differently from the other. The bumps are caused because there is a varying rate of contraction between different parts of the string when the string is being relaxed.
> 
> I have found a partial fix to the solution that you might consider. When adding twists I like to add several more twists than the formula calls for then stretch the string like I would normally. If I find bumps appearing when the string is relaxed I have discovered that the bumps will go away if the string is unwound a few twists then tensioned and burnished vigorously, especially in the area of a bump.
> 
> Last night I built a single color cable, tensioned it up and all looked good until I relaxed the tension and a big bump appeared. I unwound the cable back to spec. stretched it to about 200# and burnished the bump, then stretched it out to 300# and burnished it again, working the bump vigorously. I let it set a short while and when I relaxed it, Mr. Bump had left the building. I let it set all night under no tension and this morning the bump was still absent. I plan to tension it to 300# again and serve it up and I know everything will be fine.
> 
> I found in the past that, especially with Fury, if I have the string finished and all is perfect and then I have to add only a few twists, the bumps will appear where they had not been present previously. That led me to the idea that if I over twist, then back off and burnish, the bumps will go away.
> 
> This works for me most of the time, but I also think I will try some of the suggestions above to see if I can eliminate the problem before it arises.
> 
> Automan


That is why I was asking if the bump was all the way around the bundle or just one color. The only time I had a bump on one color only it was uneven thread tension. I also started letting my bundle stretch at 100 lbs after finishing my tag ends. Not for a long time but I do let it sit a bit before twisting. It's probably just a mental thing but I haven't had the bumps in a long time... knock on wood. .lol


----------



## skynight

bryanroberts said:


> That is why I was asking if the bump was all the way around the bundle or just one color. The only time I had a bump on one color only it was uneven thread tension. I also started letting my bundle stretch at 100 lbs after finishing my tag ends. Not for a long time but I do let it sit a bit before twisting. It's probably just a mental thing but I haven't had the bumps in a long time... knock on wood. .lol


I don't even know what the bumps are, but I stretch at 300# before twisting, and burnish each color before twisting also.


----------



## Red Voodoo

Attempting my first string build over the weekend on my backup bow, and want to pinstripe it. Been reading how to apply it to the buss cable and its a clear as mud to me. If I have a 30 strand cable and will be doing tag ends, should I do 13-2, 13-2 with the pin tags at the single loop end or 6-3-6, 6-3-6 and split the string so I have the strands with more wraps at the ends. Is one way stronger or weaker. I am afraid that pins used as the tags on the single loop end will not hold up as well because not looped as many times.


----------



## Huntinsker

Red Voodoo said:


> Attempting my first string build over the weekend on my backup bow, and want to pinstripe it. Been reading how to apply it to the buss cable and its a clear as mud to me. If I have a 30 strand cable and will be doing tag ends, should I do 13-2, 13-2 with the pin tags at the single loop end or 6-3-6, 6-3-6 and split the string so I have the strands with more wraps at the ends. Is one way stronger or weaker. I am afraid that pins used as the tags on the single loop end will not hold up as well because not looped as many times.


Are you building with Fury? If so, go with a 32 strand cable, that's equivalent to the same diameter as 24 strands of 452x, and then you can lay it out 14-2-2-14. Lay out 1 primary color with 2 strands of the strip and then close the loop covering the tag ends of the pinstripe with the primary color. Then lay out the second 2 pinstripe strands and the primary second primary color. This time you can have the pinstripe color tag ends at the other end and you can use those tag ends to finish the bottom loop while you use the primary color to finish the yoke loop. If you don't like that idea, do the second 2 strands of the pin stripe and the 14 of the other primary color just as you did the first and then use a long piece of scrap to finish the loop on the bottom.


----------



## nestly

For Split yokes/Buss I just do 12-4-12 (452X). The ends of the primary colors are closed on each yoke leg, and the pinstripe is closed at the cable end. Works perfectly since there are 3 loop colors that need closed, and 3 endloops that need served.


----------



## Red Voodoo

Yes, I am using Fury. 32 will make it easier. I read someware that 30 strands on the cable, so that is why I was going with that number. Guess I will decide at the time if I will use pin to tag end or a piece of scrap. Hope it turns out good enough to put on the bow.


----------



## Rat

New threads on my Tribute! 
452x Flo Orange and Olive Drab Green with regular Green end serving and braided center serving. 
This is the first string I have built in many, many years; reading this thread motivated me to try it again. 

Thanks to everyone for all the instructions and ideas. I used the calculator from the NW Spinner website and everything came out perfectly. 

It took a little while to get everything perfect on the drawing board (Cam timing and sync) but she is punching Xs again, no peep rotation and she looks SWEEEEET!

Pictures in a bit. 

Thanks again to all who have contributed to the great information in this thread!


----------



## Rat




----------



## Huntinsker

Rat said:


> View attachment 2897826
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897842
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897850
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897858
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897866


Nice looking set. I like that color combo.


----------



## bryanroberts

Rat said:


> View attachment 2897826
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897842
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897850
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897858
> 
> 
> View attachment 2897866


Looks good!!!


----------



## Red Voodoo

Here is my first attempt at building a string. Not 100% satisfied with my serving. Seem to do better at serving away from loop then towards it. These I did towards it. Got the cable done and will hope to finish strong today. Will post more pictures on the bow when done

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## automan26

A few posts back, some were talking about the tool they use to tighten up their servings when they finish wrapping them. Here is the best tool imaginable. I took a long nose, needle nose pliers and put a section of 1/4" rubber automotive vacuum hose on the jaws. I can wrap the serving tag end around the hose-covered jaws and pull with all my strength and nothing slips and the serving tightens up as tightly as is humanly possible to pull.

Automan


----------



## automan26

Red Voodoo said:


> Here is my first attempt at building a string. Not 100% satisfied with my serving. Seem to do better at serving away from loop then towards it. These I did towards it. Got the cable done and will hope to finish strong today. Will post more pictures on the bow when done
> View attachment 2901162


That's an awesome first attempt!!! It takes a lot of guys many tries to get where you are now.

Automan


----------



## michaelgentry87

Dumb question. Let's say I built up a string at the wrong length. stretched and twisted, 
Well rebuilt correctly and still have the wrong built one, can I untwi st and reuse ghat material for a yoke cable or shorter cable jw


----------



## bryanroberts

michaelgentry87 said:


> Dumb question. Let's say I built up a string at the wrong length. stretched and twisted,
> Well rebuilt correctly and still have the wrong built one, can I untwi st and reuse ghat material for a yoke cable or shorter cable jw


I have never tried it and i would think with fury it would be impossible. I don't know about bcy x.


----------



## michaelgentry87

It is bcy x


----------



## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> Dumb question. Let's say I built up a string at the wrong length. stretched and twisted,
> Well rebuilt correctly and still have the wrong built one, can I untwi st and reuse ghat material for a yoke cable or shorter cable jw


In theory you could but IMO, it'd take more time than it's worth to remove all the serving, deconstruct the string, spool the material back up and then lay it back out all the while hoping that you don't damage the material in the process of cutting the serving off.


----------



## deerbum

I made a set for my friends 15 year old a few weeks ago and he's put them to good use shooting his second deer of the season. I'll have to see if I can pick up a few pointers from him.


----------



## automan26

The only thing better than building a sweeeeet set of threads is seeing the grin on that young man's face knowing your threads had a part to play.


Great Job
Automan


----------



## deerbum

automan26 said:


> The only thing better than building a sweeeeet set of threads is seeing the grin on that young man's face knowing your threads had a part to play.
> 
> 
> Great Job
> Automan


Thank you sir, and thanks for sharing your ideas and time to inspire so many others.


----------



## Huntinsker

So my little cousin is getting his first bow and I'm setting it up to surprise him for Christmas. I ask his dad what he might like his string colors to be and he tells me that his favorite colors are camo and bright green. So I'm making a tan/OD green with flo green pinstripe set. Looks better twisted up than I thought it would.


----------



## Bloody Bucket

*Counter twist a string.*

Hello all,

Great thread. 

I have been building strings for sometime, but is we advertisements like for the Mathews zebra strings where the bundles are counter twisted before being twisted together making a more balanced string.

Now regardless of how effective is really is, how exactly would you go about doing that?


----------



## nestly

Bloody Bucket said:


> I have been building strings for sometime, but is we advertisements like for the Mathews zebra strings where the bundles are counter twisted before being twisted together making a more balanced string.
> 
> Now regardless of how effective is really is, how exactly would you go about doing that?


Haven't actually tried it but I think it would be fairly simple to do. For a Black and White zebra....

Lay up 12 strands of BLACK and then 12 strands of WHITE just as you would for a regular two color string, but close both loop colors at the fixed/non-twisting end of the jig. Then lift all the WHITE strands off of the twisting end of the jig and twist the the remaining BLACK strands clockwise. Remove the twisted strands of BLACK from the twisting end of the jig and put the WHITE strands back on and twist the WHITE strands counter-clockwise. Put the BLACK strands back on the jig post. You now effectively have a full length split yoke with each leg/color twisted a different direction. Now just twist them together (clockwise). I expect that the WHITE bundle will end up slightly longer than the BLACK bundle since the main twist is going opposite the WHITE bundle twist, so some experimentation would have to be done to see how many extra twists are required in the counter-clockwise (WHITE) bundle to make even tension on both bundles.

Is there any benefit?.... I doubt it. In fact I'd expect it to be less stable than a normally twisted string, but it might be a fun experiment.


----------



## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> So my little cousin is getting his first bow and I'm setting it up to surprise him for Christmas. I ask his dad what he might like his string colors to be and he tells me that his favorite colors are camo and bright green. So I'm making a tan/OD green with flo green pinstripe set. Looks better twisted up than I thought it would.
> View attachment 2916026


Thats a sweet combo! I'm glad you posted those colors cause I've been wondering about the tans and Brown's on 60xs site they have what I would call Brown listed as tan and a whole other color listed as dark brown which 2 colors to I have here am I missing dark brown ??


----------



## caspian

I do like two colour end loops. 20lb dyneema line for the loop and 30lb for the end over 24 strands of 452X. served from loop out. yoke legs for an Apex 8 buss.


----------



## b0w_bender

Bloody Bucket said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Great thread.
> 
> I have been building strings for sometime, but is we advertisements like for the Mathews zebra strings where the bundles are counter twisted before being twisted together making a more balanced string.
> 
> Now regardless of how effective is really is, how exactly would you go about doing that?


I think Nestly's description above is perfectly plausible for how you would do it. I will say that the idea that it makes a "more stable" string would insinuate that the standard build process is not stable. I'm having a hard time buying this notion since a shooting machine would have no problem shooting a perfect score with the standard built strings. Many professionals have shot perfect indoor scores with the standard built string. So I have to wonder where this idea that the standard build process is unstable? I think it is a far more likely scenario that Mathews is trying to add a perceived value by introducing a gimmick build process. You can spend the extra time with all the complicated twisting but don't expect any real statistical improvement in your shooting. In fact I would suggest that adding the additional complexity to the build process is more likely to create build errors than more string stability. 
JMHO


----------



## caspian

like all snake oil, claims like that work best on people that don't know any better.


----------



## Huntinsker

Bloody Bucket said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Great thread.
> 
> I have been building strings for sometime, but is we advertisements like for the Mathews zebra strings where the bundles are counter twisted before being twisted together making a more balanced string.
> 
> Now regardless of how effective is really is, how exactly would you go about doing that?


Having dealt with quite a few Zebra strings, I can tell you that their counter twisted bundles does not make their strings more stable than a standard build process. It's just a marketing gimmick, in my opinion.


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> Thats a sweet combo! I'm glad you posted those colors cause I've been wondering about the tans and Brown's on 60xs site they have what I would call Brown listed as tan and a whole other color listed as dark brown which 2 colors to I have here am I missing dark brown ??


Looks like you have "Tan", which is very brown looking to me, and maybe Cedar.


----------



## jameswk

Bcy shows my colors as brown and tan which is who I got them from but 60x shows something different they show a dark brown color which I don't even see from bcy. Does 60x have a more up to date color list or ammo missing something?


----------



## nestly

There's a fairly large discrepancy between the colors shown on 60X and BCY websites. For Brown and Tan, BCY images are definitely more representative of actual color.

60X's picture of "Brown" looks like a spool of black to me, and their "Tan" looks like a brown spool.


----------



## jameswk

this is why i brought it up cause i thought that i did not have cedar and ive been doing a lot of my purchasing from 60x but didnt want to order not being certain or what colors. i also have 2 colors of 3d that more resemble what 60x is showing its a really dark brown that does not match my brown string material and a lighter brown that more so does match ill send a photo here in just a minute


----------



## jameswk




----------



## gavrone

Hi guys,

I have some questions. I apologize from start for not reading all the 122 pages, my ADD don't let me  
1. How do I determine the distance between poles for ending with the right length of the string? I have read the formula for the twists but no mention about the stretching. Does this not matter?
2. Wouldn't be a good idea to stretch the string material separately and after that lay the material again in the jig?
3. If I twist the string clockwise how am I serving, counter clockwise?
4. How tight should I serve? As tight as possible (considering the preventing of string from twisting)?
5. How many strands of 452x for a 50-60lb bow? Do cables may have more strands than the string? Would be a good thing or no worth advantages? 

Just a few question  ... if anyone can help I'll be very grateful.

Cheers


----------



## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> this is why i brought it up cause i thought that i did not have cedar and ive been doing a lot of my purchasing from 60x but didnt want to order not being certain or what colors. i also have 2 colors of 3d that more resemble what 60x is showing its a really dark brown that does not match my brown string material and a lighter brown that more so does match ill send a photo here in just a minute


Well now you have me wondering because I ordered Tan and got that brown color. Only problem is I can't remember where I ordered that spool. It was either 60x or Lancaster.


----------



## Huntinsker

gavrone said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have some questions. I apologize from start for not reading all the 122 pages, my ADD don't let me
> 1. How do I determine the distance between poles for ending with the right length of the string? I have read the formula for the twists but no mention about the stretching. Does this not matter?
> 2. Wouldn't be a good idea to stretch the string material separately and after that lay the material again in the jig?
> 3. If I twist the string clockwise how am I serving, counter clockwise?
> 4. How tight should I serve? As tight as possible (considering the preventing of string from twisting)?
> 5. How many strands of 452x for a 50-60lb bow? Do cables may have more strands than the string? Would be a good thing or no worth advantages?
> 
> Just a few question  ... if anyone can help I'll be very grateful.
> 
> Cheers


1. The formula for twisting also gives you the initial post setting for your desired final length. However, because the formula assumes a linear amount of stretch as the length increases, you need to do some trial and error to see how much off of your initial post setting you need to subtract. Here's an example. I've been using 0.71 to get my number of twists for a slightly higher twist rate than I was using. Lets say that I want my string to end up at 90" long. I would take 90 x 0.71 = 63.9.............So I would twist the string 64 times. Now I use the 63.9 and multiply it by .012 and then add back my desired final length. It would be..... (63.9 x .012) + 90 = 90.7668............90.7668 would be the initial post setting that the formula gives you. I know from experience with my build process, that I would need to reduce the initial post setting by about 1/4". 

From there it's just trial and error to figure out what you own build process will require of you.

2. The string material doesn't need stretch before going on the jig because stretching on the jig is more than adequate. Stretching the string on the jig is more to equalize the strand tension across the entire bundle rather than to actually stretch the material longer. Dyneema, Vectran and Spectra are very low creep materials to begin with and stretching the individual fibers wouldn't yield much of a result.

3. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=10 ... Watch the videos in post #227

4. Yes you should serve as tightly as you can without your string rotating too much. You have to learn how much that is by feel and trial and error.

5. I like to use 22 strands of 452x for strings and 24 strands of 452x for the cables. The cables are in charge of the cam timing so having them be a little more stable is a good thing. It also gives you a firmer back wall on cable stop bows because the cables are a little thicker. The weight of the bow has little to do with the strand count of the strings and cables. Fitting the cam tracks is more important.


----------



## Bloody Bucket

Ok,

I didn't actually mean more stable in the sense of stretch and creep.

Mostly for there claim of the peep being more stable.

Now I have spent the better part of the last week experimenting and what I have found is quite surprising in the sense that to counter twist the actual bundles you have to twist them both in the same direction individually.

When you twist one counter clockwise and the other clockwise one bundle will UN twist as you twist the two together. 

By twisting both clockwise facing the string they are effectively counter twisted when twisted together. What you do is lay up one bundle and twist from the opposite end of your tagged end (if you have a jig like mine that allows for this). Then temporarily close the loop with the tags by wrapping 2 times with each tag. Pull it off and build the next bundle starting from the other side. Twist clockwise facing the string from the end opposite the tags, then replace the first bundle and finish the loops.

If you only have the ability to twist from one end Then simply flip one bundle When replacing it on the jig. Its important that you twist each bundle the same direction when facing down the string. It would seem that they would not be counter twisted when this method applies but I assure you that they are.

When twisting the two bundles together be sure to twist the in the same direction facing the string as you twisted the individual bundles.


----------



## Bloody Bucket

To what degree you cou,ter twist was the hard part, but with a :/ little work you can make up a formula. 

I have sent a few,strings to customers made this way and await some more extensive field testing.

I also did not intend to insinuate that any current method is not stable. This I know because I have built hundreds of strings for customers without a,single warranty piece for rotation or creep.


----------



## Bloody Bucket

Also the zebra strings do not actually twist the two bundles individually. They have another method that I will not explain.


----------



## gavrone

Thank you Huntinsker.
1. So for a PSE Supra Max string of 60.37 the math will be: (60.37 x 0.71 = 42.86) x 0.012 + 60.37 = 60.88. That's half inch from which, in your experience, you extract a 1/4" ending with 60.63". Right?
But for the cables which are more shorter are you using the same principle - minus 1/4"? Ex: (39 x 0.71 = 27.69) x 0.012 + 39 = 39.33 - 0.25 = 30.08
2. OK.
3. I use to serve from the pole to the middle so Pat Moore's video is more helpful, thanks.
4.Ok.
5. Great.


----------



## Bloody Bucket

gavrone said:


> Thank you Huntinsker.
> 1. So for a PSE Supra Max string of 60.37 the math will be: (60.37 x 0.71 = 42.86) x 0.012 + 60.37 = 60.88. That's half inch from which, in your experience, you extract a 1/4" ending with 60.63". Right?
> But for the cables which are more shorter are you using the same principle - minus 1/4"? Ex: (39 x 0.71 = 27.69) x 0.012 + 39 = 39.33 - 0.25 = 30.08
> 2. OK.
> 3. I use to serve from the pole to the middle so Pat Moore's video is more helpful, thanks.
> 4.Ok.
> 5. Great.



Another way to go about finding a formula for,your layout with each material is to build a test string.

Just set your jig to any length, 50 plus inches will yield most accurate results. Record that length. Then build the string as you normally would. After the string has stretched, and relaxed using your normal process put it back on the stretcher and measure at 100 pounds. Also record that measurement.

Take the first measurement and divide it by the second measurement. You will end up with a number that is more than one.

Now when building the next string, take what you want for the finished length and multiply by the number you you obtained from your test string. Its important to use the same rate of twists otherwise your number will then be inaccurate. 

This method allows for an accurate conversion for any material or build process when done for each material you might use.


----------



## Huntinsker

gavrone said:


> Thank you Huntinsker.
> 1. So for a PSE Supra Max string of 60.37 the math will be: (60.37 x 0.71 = 42.86) x 0.012 + 60.37 = 60.88. That's half inch from which, in your experience, you extract a 1/4" ending with 60.63". Right?
> But for the cables which are more shorter are you using the same principle - minus 1/4"? Ex: (39 x 0.71 = 27.69) x 0.012 + 39 = 39.33 - 0.25 = 30.08
> 2. OK.
> 3. I use to serve from the pole to the middle so Pat Moore's video is more helpful, thanks.
> 4.Ok.
> 5. Great.


The 1/4" that I subtracted off that example was for a string that was about 90" long. I should have been more clear but the longer the desired final length, the more you'll have to subtract off the initial post setting. This is because there will be more material that needs to be stretched and the more material you have, the more it will stretch. This simple formula can't really take that into account so it will usually be a little long if you were to use exactly what it says.

I recommend making some test strings of 30", 60" and 90". Use the formula exactly as the math works out and then measure your final results. However much too long the strings are based on the desired final length, will be how much you'll need to subtract from the initial post setting for that length of string. 

So let's say that you make a 90" string and with following the formula exactly, your string ends up at 90 3/8". That means that you would subtract 3/8" off the initial post setting when making a string that's close to 90" long. Now let's say you make a 60" string and it ends up being 3/16" too long. That means that when you make a 60" string, you would deduct 3/16" from the initial post setting. Now that we know how much to take off of a 90" and 60" string, we can make an educated guess for every distance in between 90" and 60". For a 75" string, your initial post setting would need to be about 9/32" shorter than what the formula gives you. These are all hypothetical numbers of course.


----------



## gavrone

Huntinsker said:


> The 1/4" that I subtracted off that example was for a string that was about 90" long. I should have been more clear but the longer the desired final length, the more you'll have to subtract off the initial post setting. This is because there will be more material that needs to be stretched and the more material you have, the more it will stretch. This simple formula can't really take that into account so it will usually be a little long if you were to use exactly what it says.
> 
> I recommend making some test strings of 30", 60" and 90". Use the formula exactly as the math works out and then measure your final results. However much too long the strings are based on the desired final length, will be how much you'll need to subtract from the initial post setting for that length of string.
> 
> So let's say that you make a 90" string and with following the formula exactly, your string ends up at 90 3/8". That means that you would subtract 3/8" off the initial post setting when making a string that's close to 90" long. Now let's say you make a 60" string and it ends up being 3/16" too long. That means that when you make a 60" string, you would deduct 3/16" from the initial post setting. Now that we know how much to take off of a 90" and 60" string, we can make an educated guess for every distance in between 90" and 60". For a 75" string, your initial post setting would need to be about 9/32" shorter than what the formula gives you. These are all hypothetical numbers of course.


Thanks! The trouble is that I have just one small spool of 452x, can't afford to test. It should be perfect from the first time  So if you have any experience with 452x string making of 60" and 40" it would be nice if you can share it!


----------



## bowshooter73




----------



## Huntinsker

gavrone said:


> Thanks! The trouble is that I have just one small spool of 452x, can't afford to test. It should be perfect from the first time  So if you have any experience with 452x string making of 60" and 40" it would be nice if you can share it!


Each person will have a different jig, set of tools, skills and a slightly different build process so it may not do you much good if I told you exactly how I would set it up. You won't get the same results as I would because you're not me. That's why you'll read that it's a trial and error process on about every other page of this thread. Just go slow and take your time. I read every thing I could find before I made my first string set and it worked out pretty well. This isn't a process that you can get right the first time without putting in a whole lot of study time. 

If you think it would help you, here's how I would set up my jig for your Supra Max.

String: 43 twists with an initial post setting of 60 9/16"
Buss: 28 twists with an initial post setting of 39 1/8"
Control: 29 twists with an initial post setting of 40 7/16"

That may get you within a couple twists here and there.


----------



## Huntinsker

bowshooter73 said:


>


Nice combo there. Don't remember seeing that one before.


----------



## nestly

There are too many variables to expect to get it right the first time, including but not limited to how tight the stringmaker lays up the strands on the string jig, and how much the jig string flexes. There is simply no way to get it exactly right the first time except through sheer luck.

Regarding adding/subtracting for long/short strings, I don't understand the reasoning, and I haven't found it to be necessary. The string fibers are going to stretch a certain percentage, so that should already be included in the formula (twists x .012) or whatever multiplier the stringmaker uses. Longer strings have more twists, so the "extra" length is already factored. If it doesn't work out, then IMO the stringmaker should adjust their multiplier, rather than adding/subtracting an arbitrary number for strings that are over/under another arbitrary length. 

I use one formula whether it's a 90" One-Cam string, or a 12" yoke cable. 

((String length x .75) x .015) + string length = outside of post setting. 

(60.37 x .75 = 45.28 twists) x .015) = .68 
60.37 + .68 = *61.05*


----------



## gavrone

Huntinsker said:


> Each person will have a different jig, set of tools, skills and a slightly different build process so it may not do you much good if I told you exactly how I would set it up. You won't get the same results as I would because you're not me. That's why you'll read that it's a trial and error process on about every other page of this thread. Just go slow and take your time. I read every thing I could find before I made my first string set and it worked out pretty well. This isn't a process that you can get right the first time without putting in a whole lot of study time.
> 
> If you think it would help you, here's how I would set up my jig for your Supra Max.
> 
> String: 43 twists with an initial post setting of 60 9/16"
> Buss: 28 twists with an initial post setting of 39 1/8"
> Control: 29 twists with an initial post setting of 40 7/16"
> 
> That may get you within a couple twists here and there.


Great, I have a reference now!


----------



## bowshooter73

Huntinsker said:


> Nice combo there. Don't remember seeing that one before.


Thank you. Had a handful of spools on the back of my jig table getting low and grabbed the three that stood apart from each other the most and called it good enough for me. Wanted to play around with some of the fishing line serving and figured I'd try it out on my indoor rig before I used it for a customer.


----------



## tenzing

Wondering if anyone is having issues with angel majesty serving. I have been having breakage problem while serving with both end and center serving.


----------



## rnmech40

I have a quick question for guys building tag end loops. Any of you guys have a problem with making them look good. I'm using 452x and the material looks kinda like it flattens out and looks discolored. Flo green is the worst. Any tips?


----------



## bowshooter73

I pull my tags as tight as possible with out rolling the string. I also pull the loop up the post a bit so I can get my fingers in there push the wraps together. The discoloring you see sounds like you don't have the same tension on each wrap. The tighter your wraps, the darker they will be.


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## rnmech40

Thanks I feel like I'm getting them pretty tight before I started building my own I have a set I bought they were built with fury. They are awesome looking ends that I have not been able to duplicate. I thought maybe it was the difference in material.


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## bryanroberts

rnmech40 said:


> I have a quick question for guys building tag end loops. Any of you guys have a problem with making them look good. I'm using 452x and the material looks kinda like it flattens out and looks discolored. Flo green is the worst. Any tips?


I have had some issue with bcyx losing its color on tag ends. I'm not sure if this is what your seeing but this has happened to me only with bcyx. First pic is black and the second is royal blue.


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## rnmech40

bryanroberts said:


> I have had some issue with bcyx losing its color on tag ends. I'm not sure if this is what your seeing but this has happened to me only with bcyx. First pic is black and the second is royal blue.
> View attachment 2961642
> 
> View attachment 2961658


Similar they just look like they are fuzzed up. I wish I had some pics but I don't have any handy.


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## bryanroberts

rnmech40 said:


> Similar they just look like they are fuzzed up. I wish I had some pics but I don't have any handy.


Does it look like this one?


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## rnmech40

bryanroberts said:


> Does it look like this one?
> View attachment 2961706


Yes similar but the Flo green fuzz looks white. Just guess I'm being to picky those one I bought made with the fury is slick looking. Guess I'm just trying to perfect it.


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## bryanroberts

rnmech40 said:


> Yes similar but the Flo green fuzz looks white. Just guess I'm being to picky those one I bought made with the fury is slick looking. Guess I'm just trying to perfect it.


Fury finishes alot cleaner and better looking on tag ends than bcy x in my opinion. 452x I don't have alot of experience with but the strings I've built tag ends looked good.


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## bowshooter73

If there is not much wax in your string it will flatten out pretty bad. When I get tag like that, I take tube of wax and run it down the tag and give the tag a little roll between my fingers as I tighten it, less fuzz too.


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## Rat

rnmech40 said:


> I have a quick question for guys building tag end loops. Any of you guys have a problem with making them look good. I'm using 452x and the material looks kinda like it flattens out and looks discolored. Flo green is the worst. Any tips?


It does kinda flatten out and lose its luster, but that's just what happens when you wrap it. You can try and keep the yarn twisted as you wrap the loops and that helps the color as well as the fuzzies. But really, it's just the nature of the beast.


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## rnmech40

Thanks guys I appreciate all of your input. I been wanting to experiment with other material but I'm to tight and like to use up what I have.


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## automan26

My little granddaughter is only seven years old now, so it will be a few years before she can shoot this, but why wait? I thought I would get it ready for her so she will have it when she needs it.

Pink strings should really float her little boat.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Wow!!! 300,000 views of this thread! Really glad to see it keep going strong. Thanks for everyone who's participating and taking their time to share and help each other learn.


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## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> My little granddaughter is only seven years old now, so it will be a few years before she can shoot this, but why wait? I thought I would get it ready for her so she will have it when she needs it.
> 
> Pink strings should really float her little boat.
> 
> Automan


Looks good automan26 I'm sure she will love it!!!


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## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> Wow!!! 300,000 views of this thread! Really glad to see it keep going strong. Thanks for everyone who's participating and taking their time to share and help each other learn.


Well thank you and Automan for babysitting this thread (lol) and all of your valuable time and input!


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## caspian

automan26 said:


> Pink strings should really float her little boat.


those really pop.


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## MHoward

hey guys! Might someone point me to the pages where it talks about the fishing line for servings please. I ordered some but cant remember what # test for thicknesses.

Thanks


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## nestly

Never tried any of the fishing lines myself, but you should be able to fine what you need by searching within this thread using the link at the top right. Search terms: "Fishing" and/or "Chinese"


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Never tried any of the fishing lines myself, but you should be able to fine what you need by searching within this thread using the link at the top right. Search terms: "Fishing" and/or "Chinese"


Yep. I searched "Chinese line" and got 2 pages of search results.


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## bowshooter73

I've been 50# in black and colors. It's close to BCY 3D. For white, I use 40# and a little mineral oil for clarifier. Seems to be working very well. Here a chart to get you close, it's in the thread somewhere.


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## MHoward

thanks guys. I know some of you know this thread forward and back. I realized right after I posted that I could do that search..lol...but thanks for the response.

Another question....have any of you used the fishing line for center serving??


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## aread

Huntinsker said:


> Wow!!! 300,000 views of this thread! Really glad to see it keep going strong. Thanks for everyone who's participating and taking their time to share and help each other learn.


It looks like this thread is 2 years old today! That's about 400 views per day over those 2 years. You started something good!! :thumbs_up:thumbs_up

My thanks to you and Automan!


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## dbierman

*My entry into the string jig builds.*

Building on others ideas, it's a work in progress.


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## jim p

If the fishing line works good. I would not think that there would be a breakage problem with 50 lb test and 100 lb test when serving.


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## nestly

dbierman said:


> Building on others ideas, it's a work in progress.


Very nice!

I wanted mine to have less tendancy to tip the rods/posts, so I cut them a little past center to eliminate the tipping. Of course, I ended up going a different direction entirely after that, but here's my first design and how I got there using a 5/8" bolt.


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## dbierman

nestly said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I wanted mine to have less tendancy to tip the rods/posts, so I cut them a little past center to eliminate the tipping. Of course, I ended up going a different direction entirely after that, but here's my first design and how I got there using a 5/8" bolt.


I might suggest you use a shoulder bolt instead of the cap screw bolt. It has a flat base and has less tendency for the bolt to tip inside the threads when a side load is applied.


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## nestly

dbierman said:


> I might suggest you use a shoulder bolt instead of the cap screw bolt. It has a flat base and has less tendency for the bolt to tip inside the threads when a side load is applied.


Yep, I considered using a shoulder bolt, but ultimately decided that a regular cap screw would likely be stronger than a shoulder bolt of the same diameter because of the reduced diameter required for the smaller 10-24 threads. I also went 1/4-28 fine instead of standard threads because fine threads aren't cut as deep as standard threads, so the bolt is stronger. Also reamed the top of threads a few thousands deep so all the threads would be buried and not cut the string fibers.


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## dbierman

nestly said:


> Yep, I considered using a shoulder bolt, but ultimately decided that a regular cap screw would likely be stronger than a shoulder bolt of the same diameter because of the reduced diameter required for the smaller 10-24 threads. I also went 1/4-28 fine instead of standard threads because fine threads aren't cut as deep as standard threads, so the bolt is stronger. Also reamed the top of threads a few thousands deep so all the threads would be buried and not cut the string fibers.


Maybe I need to do a practical test and see which fails first.

I've used these bolts for a lot of applications and as long as they remain tight there's not a lot of side or shear force on the threaded part of the bolt. If they are seated properly the force on the threads of the bolt is more of an outward pull because of the shoulder than a sideways bending.

Hope that makes sense.

BTW, my bolts are 3/8" shoulder with a 5/16" thread.


----------



## Huntinsker

dbierman said:


> Maybe I need to do a practical test and see which fails first.
> 
> I've used these bolts for a lot of applications and as long as they remain tight there's not a lot of side or shear force on the threaded part of the bolt. If they are seated properly the force on the threads of the bolt is more of an outward pull because of the shoulder than a sideways bending.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.
> 
> BTW, my bolts are 3/8" shoulder with a 5/16" thread.


I wondered about the size of yours. They look larger than the standard 1/4". Remember when you're building and measuring strings that AMO standards are to use 1/4" posts at 100lbs of tension for 20 seconds. Using 3/8" posts may change things a bit.


----------



## dbierman

Huntinsker said:


> I wondered about the size of yours. They look larger than the standard 1/4". Remember when you're building and measuring strings that AMO standards are to use 1/4" posts at 100lbs of tension for 20 seconds. Using 3/8" posts may change things a bit.


I'm sure I'll have to adjust my measurements to get the desired length and may have to insert a smaller diameter bolt to do my loops but I'm not sure how the bolt size would effect the stretching the string, center serving and end serving. I plan to turn down the shoulder of a couple of bolts to do the end loops.

What is the reference to 100lbs for 20 seconds?


----------



## nestly

The standard is to measure the finished length of a string at 100 pounds tension to the outside of 1/4" Dia. posts. Larger posts will mean you'll have make your strings just a tad shorter which is no biggie in itself, but the bigger problem IMO is the size of your loops. I make mine 5/8" long except for yokes loops which are 1". With larger posts, you'll have more trouble pulling the left and right bundle back together to form the loop, plus you'll never get a 5/8 or even 3/4" endloop back over the head of that 3/8" shoulder bolt unless you turn them down significantly. I even have a bit of trouble getting them over the head a 1/4" cap screw, which are typically the same size or smaller diameter than the heads of shoulder bolts.


----------



## dbierman

I'll just remove the bolt to get the string off.


----------



## Huntinsker

dbierman said:


> I'm sure I'll have to adjust my measurements to get the desired length and may have to insert a smaller diameter bolt to do my loops but I'm not sure how the bolt size would effect the stretching the string, center serving and end serving. I plan to turn down the shoulder of a couple of bolts to do the end loops.
> 
> What is the reference to 100lbs for 20 seconds?


AMO standards to measure strings are to put them on 1/4" posts at 100lbs for 20 seconds before measuring. Basically they just want to give a standard time to allow the string to stretch from the 100lb tension. I don't exactly have a timer going or anything but by the time I get the string up to tension, verify the tension and then get my tape on the posts, it's at least 20 seconds so I don't really worry about it much. Here's a link with a bunch of, if not all, the AMO standards. 

http://peteward.com/AMOStandards.pdf


----------



## tered

Anyone know the ata on a Darton excels. It measures 40.625. But the brace height is off 7.375 needs to be 7.5.


----------



## automan26

tered said:


> Anyone know the ata on a Darton excels. It measures 40.625. But the brace height is off 7.375 needs to be 7.5.


I do not know those specs, but don't go crazy chasing after perfection. Your BH is only 1/8" off and it will make no noticeable difference in performance. If your draw weight and length is correct you are probably good to go.

If your strings are built to spec your ATA should also be very close.

Automan


----------



## tered

automan26 said:


> I do not know those specs, but don't go crazy chasing after perfection. Your BH is only 1/8" off and it will make no noticeable difference in performance. If your draw weight and length is correct you are probably good to go.
> 
> If your strings are built to spec your ATA should also be very close.
> 
> Automan


Thanks. It is an older bow.


----------



## soldier1265

NoDeerInIowa said:


> Found my solution for transferring material onto a bobbin. I had an old Berkeley portable spooling station that I haven't used for awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I chucked up the spool from my bearpaw (this is the best use I have found for the bearpaw).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It works like a charm.





I modified your idea a bit. Had the same setup, just altered. I have one hand free to try and spool it on nice and neat.


----------



## Huntinsker

soldier1265 said:


> I modified your idea a bit. Had the same setup, just altered. I have one hand free to try and spool it on nice and neat.


Looks like a sweet setup.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Just a bit of information for you guys, i am not sure if this has been covered or not as this thread is way too long to review every post again.

so if you guys go from using tag ends to serve your loop and switch to a 4 post and serve your end loops, you will have to add a little length to your layout in order to keep the same twist rate and finished length with your formula. 

For example i normally use a .75 per inch twist rate, but when serving end loops it ends up being around .66 twist rate to keep the same finished length. Now thats only 1-3 twists in a cable but in a longer string like those on a single cam bow it can be 6-10 twists. How many strands the particular piece is will make a difference in how much one twist makes a difference.

I am sure this s something many have figured out already, but just wanted to start a new conversation


----------



## bryanroberts

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> Just a bit of information for you guys, i am not sure if this has been covered or not as this thread is way too long to review every post again.
> 
> so if you guys go from using tag ends to serve your loop and switch to a 4 post and serve your end loops, you will have to add a little length to your layout in order to keep the same twist rate and finished length with your formula.
> 
> For example i normally use a .75 per inch twist rate, but when serving end loops it ends up being around .66 twist rate to keep the same finished length. Now thats only 1-3 twists in a cable but in a longer string like those on a single cam bow it can be 6-10 twists. How many strands the particular piece is will make a difference in how much one twist makes a difference.
> 
> I am sure this s something many have figured out already, but just wanted to start a new conversation


Thanks for the info. I only use tag end at this time but I have been thinking about going to a 3 post for customers that want served loops.


----------



## nestly

Interesting... I do about a 50/50 split between tag end and end loop, and never noticed any difference.


----------



## dwagoner

nestly said:


> Interesting... I do about a 50/50 split between tag end and end loop, and never noticed any difference.


me neither..... theres really no reason you have to add initial lenght just cause your serving loops vs tag ends....thats just cause hes a novice....i call BS....


----------



## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> me neither..... theres really no reason you have to add initial lenght just cause your serving loops vs tag ends....thats just cause hes a novice....i call BS....


No reason to be so pointed with your response. Maybe his post should have said something like "you may need to add some extra length" rather than "you will" but it doesn't mean he may not be right for a lot of people. Anytime you change your process a little, you can expect the results to also change a little. Until you get them both figured out to where you get the same result, then you may have to adjust your initial layout length.


----------



## b0w_bender

Huntinsker said:


> No reason to be so pointed with your response.


Agreed. 

I think it might be time to point out again that the length of a string is in fact adjustable by adding or subtracting twists even after the string is done. It is perfectly OK to adjust up or down with a twist here or there. Any difference in the length from loop methods can't be more than a twist or 2 I would think.


----------



## nestly

I would theorize that perhaps the string jig is flexing more in the 4 post configuration, thus the string ends up shorter (I know my old jig did this). Now that I've upgraded to jig that can't be bent by puny humans  the quality and consistency of my strings is much better.


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> I would theorize that perhaps the string jig is flexing more in the 4 post configuration, thus the string ends up shorter (I know my old jig did this). Now that I've upgraded to jig that can't be bent by puny humans  the quality and consistency of my strings is much better.


That was my first thought as well.


----------



## dbierman

I'm building mine with the intent of having no flex.


----------



## bryanroberts

nestly said:


> I would theorize that perhaps the string jig is flexing more in the 4 post configuration, thus the string ends up shorter (I know my old jig did this). Now that I've upgraded to jig that can't be bent by puny humans  the quality and consistency of my strings is much better.


I'm sure most everyone of us who has been making strings has figured this out but to anyone starting out the Unistrut is where alot of flexing issues come up. The strongest jig made will flex bad if your unistrut is not bolted down or doubled up and bolted together. I learned quick when I shot a 96 inch single cam string across the room and thought by the noise I had hurt my jig..lol


----------



## MHoward

Anyone on here ever flex there string skills on an endless recurve string? If so I have a few questions regarding technique!


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

nestly said:


> I would theorize that perhaps the string jig is flexing more in the 4 post configuration, thus the string ends up shorter (I know my old jig did this). Now that I've upgraded to jig that can't be bent by puny humans  the quality and consistency of my strings is much better.


that would be true but also obvious before you even got to the finished string.

My 4 posts 1 1/8 steel rod turned down to 1/4 on the ends for my posts, in the bottom is a half inch drilled and tapped hole. They are mounted into 7075 alluminum bars measuring 1 inch thick, 1.5 inches wide and 10 inches long 

for mounting them there is a half inch hole drilled center in the alluminum and then 2 half inch holes drilled 3 7/8 center to center on both sides of the center hole. (this was to give me an even 8 inches outside to outside on my posts. The 2 outside holes are then counter bored into the alluminum by 1/4 inch. the 1 1/8 steel rods are then installed into the holes and a 1/2 inch grade 8 bolt from the backside of alluminum to draw the posts down into it.

My 4 post jig does not flex i can stretch on it if i chose to. I have tried laying out 32 strands of 8190F and pulling the tag ends as tight as i can and can not get the bottom strands to sag.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

the reason for the half inch holes is because i moved up to the half inch uni strut nuts instead of the 3/8. much higher tensile strength and noticeably more stable.

another thing to check to verify that you may need increased layout is to layout on your 4 post with the posts inline with the strut, as though you were using it as a 2 post design. secure your tag ends and rotate both ends of the 4 post perpendicular to the strut. You will notice that the strands will be much tighter in tension than they were when you laid it out. they reason is that now if the circumference was the same you would have close to equal tension.

there are 2 ways that you can figure your 4 post setting. you could measure from end to end making sure that the two ends of the four posts are parallel, then subtract the outside to outside measurement of your posts, which would be 8 inches ,or so i thought when i first started to use a 4 post. in reality to use the same formula for starting length you must subtract the center to center distance of the the 4 post ends. Thats why when i first started all my lengths were coming up 1/4 short. These were all test strings and cables of course, across several types of materials.

a much easier way to measure is to measure in an L shape. from the outside of one post around the next, and to the outside of the third post. the increased length needed should be linear. 

Hard to say in reality because your hands and mine are not the same, and i am sure that you layout with different tension than i do. i layout kind of tight on my 4 post in comparison to my 2 post.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

bryanroberts said:


> I'm sure most everyone of us who has been making strings has figured this out but to anyone starting out the Unistrut is where alot of flexing issues come up. The strongest jig made will flex bad if your unistrut is not bolted down or doubled up and bolted together. I learned quick when I shot a 96 inch single cam string across the room and thought by the noise I had hurt my jig..lol


my strut is bolted to an oak 4x4 with a 3/8 inch x 2 inch lag bolt every 6 inches. I can put a 99 inch string at 800 pounds without any flex


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

dwagoner said:


> me neither..... theres really no reason you have to add initial lenght just cause your serving loops vs tag ends....thats just cause hes a novice....i call BS....


maybe no reason for you, but as i mentioned earlier you may layout at different tension than i do, assuming the same measurement one string being layed out at a higher tension, than another identical string made in the same fashion will finish shorter than than the other.

As far as being a novice Compared to whom? And why does it matter to you? Maybe you are just being rude.

I would be happy to send you a set to check out if you like. Let me know what you think. Of course assuming that it would be given an unbiased evaluation. I will even refrain from using any Brownell products for the string.lol


----------



## caspian

MHoward said:


> Anyone on here ever flex there string skills on an endless recurve string? If so I have a few questions regarding technique!


lots, ask away. better to PM me to reply too, or I may not see the question.


----------



## caspian

MHoward said:


> Another question....have any of you used the fishing line for center serving??


yes, but I gave up and went back to using braided serving. the dyneema line is so slick people had problems with d-loops slipping. tied nocks helps but it's just as easy to stick to something like Diamondback for the centre for me, then the archer can run their loop the way they like.


----------



## nestly

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> another thing to check to verify that you may need increased layout is to layout on your 4 post with the posts inline with the strut, as though you were using it as a 2 post design. secure your tag ends and rotate both ends of the 4 post perpendicular to the strut. You will notice that the strands will be much tighter in tension than they were when you laid it out. they reason is that now if the circumference was the same you would have close to equal tension.


I'm afraid that's not correct mathematically, or in practice. The distance around the perimeter of 2 post string jig is exactly the same as the distance around the perimeter of a 4 post. 

in the example assuming the pivot bolts for the posts are set at 30 inches the calculated distance around 2 post and 4 post would be as follows:
4 post - 30 + 30 + 8 + 8 + one forth the circumference of each 1/4" post = *76.785398*
2 post - 38 + 38 + half the circumference of the two outside 1/4" posts = *76.785398*

The only reason the string should be tighter or looser when the posts are rotated into the 4 post configuration is if the posts are not perfectly vertical or the pivot point is not exactly central between the posts.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

I see what you are saying Nestly. After i posted that i thought about it for awhile and thought that i may have been mistaken, but it was too late last night and i was very tired, thank you for correcting me. With my current 4 post i do not rotate them. they are milled in the bottom to fit the strut so that they stay parralell to each other.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

I am just saying that in my experience, for me, every single test string i built with a 4 post was short by 1/4 inch. So now with a 4 post i just use my normal formula and add 1/4 inch.


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## b0w_bender

nestly said:


> I'm afraid that's not correct mathematically, or in practice. The distance around the perimeter of 2 post string jig is exactly the same as the distance around the perimeter of a 4 post.
> 
> in the example assuming the pivot bolts for the posts are set at 30 inches the calculated distance around 2 post and 4 post would be as follows:
> 4 post - 30 + 30 + 8 + 8 + one forth the circumference of each 1/4" post = *76.785398*
> 2 post - 38 + 38 + half the circumference of the two outside 1/4" posts = *76.785398*
> 
> The only reason the string should be tighter or looser when the posts are rotated into the 4 post configuration is if the posts are not perfectly vertical or the pivot point is not exactly central between the posts.


I agree this is correct.

nestly refers to the posts not being vertical here is another way of perhaps saying the same thing. If you have a bunch of flex in your posts with the jig inline all the pressure of the string is distributed across the 2 posts so when you rotate the posts 90 degrees to the uni-strut you then have the tension spread across 4 posts this then has the affect of tightening the string. Soooo.... if you are seeing tighter strands after you rotate the posts you may want to look at the jig design it may be that you have undo flex in the system.


----------



## nestly

@ Earl
Could it be the way you're measuring your posts when setting the initial calculated distance? My posts are not indexed for 4 posts, so whether I'm building on 2 post or 4 post, I begin in 2 post configuration to set the distance and then rotate into 4 post before starting to lay up the string, but if I was actually measuring in 4 post configuration, I'd measure center-to-center on the pivots and then subtract the width of the posts and then another 1/4" because I'd be measuring Center-Center instead of Outside-Outside.


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## Huntinsker

Good discussion. I'm soaking it up because I hope to have another end for my jig to make it a 3 post jig in the near future.


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> Good discussion. I'm soaking it up because I hope to have another end for my jig to make it a 3 post jig in the near future.


Hope you were paying attention in Trigonometry class... 

These are the settings to build the same length string on 2, 3, and 4 post jigs


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

nestly said:


> Hope you were paying attention in Trigonometry class...
> 
> These are the settings to build the same length string on 2, 3, and 4 post jigs


this is correct, and yes i believe you are right about how i measure. If when i built my 4 post i had put the post 8 inches center to center, and subtract 8 inches for my 4 post setting then i would be right on the money. but with my posts being 8 inches outside to outside i was always on every piece coming in 1/4 short. i began just measuring around in an L shape, this works too. also i have found if i subtract the center to center measurement of 7.75 instead of 8 i was right on the money when measuring just one side. 

so instead of adding 1/4 inch to my initial setting i use the same formula and just subtract 7.75 and have been right on the money since


----------



## bryanroberts

Huntinsker said:


> Good discussion. I'm soaking it up because I hope to have another end for my jig to make it a 3 post jig in the near future.


That makes two of us.. I would like to have that option for anyone who wants served loops. Plus it's a part of string building that I don't know and like all of us, I'm always hungry to learn something new to me.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Also i learned early on with serving the loops, that you need to take care not to serve the end loop too tight. Only 3-4 pounds of tension is needed on the serving tool, I am using .007 Halo and .008 spectra serving and both work well with my preference going for the halo, because it goes clearer under the same tension and gives the end loop serving a little smoother finish.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Although .007 halo may become hard to find as i think that BCY stopped making it. I do not have it on my dealer price sheet this year


----------



## automan26

Lately I have fallen in love with silver Chinese end serving. No matter what colors you use it with, it really gives the string an elegant appearance.

Automan


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

automan26 said:


> Lately I have fallen in love with silver Chinese end serving. No matter what colors you use it with, it really gives the string an elegant appearance.
> 
> Automan
> 
> View attachment 3077882


I have not used any of the Chinese stuff, How's it grip? i have used some of the domestic stuff, but while its very durable does not grip very well and has to be served way too tight.


----------



## automan26

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> I have not used any of the Chinese stuff, How's it grip? i have used some of the domestic stuff, but while its very durable does not grip very well and has to be served way too tight.


I have not seen any noticeable difference between the Chinese and BCY 3D. It has worked out quite well. I do not recommend it for center serving however.

Automan


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

I use majesty, power grip, and Diamondback for centers. 

Spider wire ultracast invisibraid in 50 pound test goes very clear and it's incredibly durable, but as mentioned earlier i have had some separation with it. Primarily on buss cables. I have served a bunch of string ends with it with no problems here is a picture of how clear it goes. this stuff is .015 diameter


----------



## gavrone

Hey,

I have a problem with the ends of the material. I mean the first and last strand. When I stretch the string (first stretching) with 250 Lb these strands are coming lose more then the others and when I relax the string they are coming out of the bundle and that no matter how tight I'm serving the end loops. How are u guys prevent this. I use Pat Moore's way to finish the end loops.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

What material are you using to serve the end loops with?

I have never had this problem


----------



## Snowriter

For a "crafty" person, how many practice strings do you think it will take before someone is good at building strings? I'd love to build my own! Your instructions can apply to recurve strings too?


----------



## automan26

You will make progress sooner than you think. After about 3 or 4 practice attempts you will be chomping at the bit to get started on the real deal. Keep your practice strings short--20" max. Most of the learning takes place at the ends so there is no need to waste material by practicing on long test strings. I am anxious to see your progress. Keep us posted.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

gavrone said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have a problem with the ends of the material. I mean the first and last strand. When I stretch the string (first stretching) with 250 Lb these strands are coming lose more then the others and when I relax the string they are coming out of the bundle and that no matter how tight I'm serving the end loops. How are u guys prevent this. I use Pat Moore's way to finish the end loops.


Make sure you're not leaving them a little slack before serving the end loops. If you do, you'll always have that slack after serving the loops.


----------



## Snowriter

After some practice, how long does it take to make a string?


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## olliedog

Snowriter said:


> After some practice, how long does it take to make a string?


You could do it in a day but why rush? Of course I'm no expert. I've made a whopping 2 strings and maybe 3 or so cables. However seeing your first set help your buddy get his first roosie bull is worth everything!!


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

from start to being twisted and stretching probably 15-20 minutes. another hour plus on the stretcher (depending on the material) then several hours to rest.

how long it takes to serve could range from a few minutes to an hour or so, depending on how you are serving


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## olliedog

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> from start to being twisted and stretching probably 15-20 minutes. another hour plus on the stretcher (depending on the material) then several hours to rest.
> 
> how long it takes to serve could range from a few minutes to an hour or so, depending on how you are serving


I'm considerably slower than that. But there are measurements to make and remake and numbers to crunch and then the whole "which way to serve again" thing ( sorry ). With practice comes comfort and efficiency. Or so I hope!!!


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## dbierman

My string jig build updates. 

Progress has been slow but I really need to step it up. My oldest son will be home from the Middle East the first week of November and wants to hunt. He's in desperate need of a new string on his bow. 

I'm trying to decide whether I want the vertical post to the inside of the jig with the brace on the back or the vertical post on the outside of the jig with the brace on the inside.

The vertical post on the inside of the jig looks much better but I can't decide on which would be most effective.


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## SamT

My suggestion would be to put the support brace on the outside so it won't interfere with your serving tool.

BTW, nice rig!


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## NoDeerInIowa

Brace in the back


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## nestly

dbierman said:


> My string jig build updates.
> 
> I'm trying to decide whether I want the vertical post to the inside of the jig with the brace on the back or the vertical post on the outside of the jig with the brace on the inside.
> 
> The vertical post on the inside of the jig looks much better but I can't decide on which would be most effective.


Well, you're not gonna bend it... that's for sure! 

I wouldn't want anything "inside" the post to interfere with the serving jig or hand serving, but it looks like the sleeve will work either way, so you can just build it and flip it around if you change your mind.
One more suggestion: Don't make it too high... the higher the string is above the uni-strut, the more the strut will bend/bow.


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## dbierman

You're very observant Nestly, and correct.

Why didn't I see that???


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## skynight

olliedog said:


> I'm considerably slower than that. But there are measurements to make and remake and numbers to crunch and then the whole "which way to serve again" thing ( sorry ). With practice comes comfort and efficiency. Or so I hope!!!


I am stretching an Apex 7 buss cable right now. I serve my loops. Took me 1.5 hours to calculate, lay out, serve and close loops and overserve the yoke ends. I will use the beiter twister with a vacuum belt to serve the ends and the roller guard so I don't expect much more than another 20-30 minutes of work. Nobody is paying me to do this though.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

olliedog said:


> I'm considerably slower than that. But there are measurements to make and remake and numbers to crunch and then the whole "which way to serve again" thing ( sorry ). With practice comes comfort and efficiency. Or so I hope!!!


yes you will become much faster and more comfortable. Dont rush it though take your time


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## dbierman

This should fix the issue with using 1/4" post to measure the string. 

I can use this and layout and measure the string then swap them out for the 3/8" shoulder bolts for stretching.


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## Ziad

Hello guys. Been following this thread for a few months now. Very informative. Thank you every1.

I have a question about measurement. Im trying to build a set for my 2014 Carbon Spyder Turbo with no2 cam. The measurement on the tune chart is different from what is on the limbs. Which one should i follow? Thanks again guys.


----------



## automan26

Ziad said:


> Hello guys. Been following this thread for a few months now. Very informative. Thank you every1.
> 
> I have a question about measurement. Im trying to build a set for my 2014 Carbon Spyder Turbo with no2 cam. The measurement on the tune chart is different from what is on the limbs. Which one should i follow? Thanks again guys.
> 
> View attachment 3091706
> 
> 
> View attachment 3091714


Your best bet would be to PM Ray Knight. He specializes in Hoyt and he has also been a great help to many on this thread.

Automan


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## Ziad

Thanks for the tip Automan!


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## NoDeerInIowa

If I were you, I would take off the strings that are on the bow and measure them- assuming that the bow is well tuned now, that will give your best results.


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## Ziad

NoDeerInIowa said:


> If I were you, I would take off the strings that are on the bow and measure them- assuming that the bow is well tuned now, that will give your best results.


I did that and it matches the measurement on the limb. Just curious about the tune chart since theres been issues about "an updated measurement" for the CST. Most probably im the one that is outdated on the issue.


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## Huntinsker

Ziad said:


> I did that and it matches the measurement on the limb. Just curious about the tune chart since theres been issues about "an updated measurement" for the CST. Most probably im the one that is outdated on the issue.


Did you order the bow with the #2 cam on it or was it changed after you acquired the bow? Reason I ask is because if the cam was changed, you would need to change the harnessing though I've seen several cases where the shop did not change to the correct lengths for the customer. My good friend was one of them and until I made him some strings, he had no idea that he wasn't getting the most out of his bow. 

If it were me, I'd measure the bow and see if it's in spec to begin with. Measure the axle to axle length, the brace height, the draw weight, draw length and letoff percentage if you can. At the very least measure the ATA and brace height. If the wrong threads are on it, the ATA will probably be quite a bit long.


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## Ziad

Huntinsker

The ATA is longer by almost an inch. I was frustrated with it untill i read a thread about CST here on AT "to not be hung up on bow being up to specs". Its shooting bullethole though. This bow is my learning bow to make my own strings. The different measurement tune chart on their website & limbs just made me doubt myself to proceed. Probably its just me being a noob. Lol. Thanks again guys.


----------



## Ziad

... yes it is the #2 cam. I bought this bow brand new. No cam change.


----------



## Huntinsker

Ziad said:


> Huntinsker
> 
> The ATA is longer by almost an inch. I was frustrated with it untill i read a thread about CST here on AT "to not be hung up on bow being up to specs". Its shooting bullethole though. This bow is my learning bow to make my own strings. The different measurement tune chart on their website & limbs just made me doubt myself to proceed. Probably its just me being a noob. Lol. Thanks again guys.


What is the draw weight with the ATA that long? I don't know about a tune chart mixup but if it were me, I'd guess that you have the wrong lengths on the bow currently and need to build to the lengths in the tune chart.


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## nestly

I've seen several instances where the Hoyt Tune charts were wrong... I'd go with the lengths on the limb sticker.


----------



## bryanroberts

automan26 said:


> Your best bet would be to PM Ray Knight. He specializes in Hoyt and he has also been a great help to many on this thread.
> 
> Automan


This is the best thing to do to double check your numbers. Ray knows these bows well and can give you the best performance numbers to use.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

I have the correct specs for this bow somewhere i will see if i can find them.

I must ask though, It looks as though these limbs are not installed on the bow. Were they the original limbs? If not go with the tune charts and not the limb sticker. If the string and cables are already to length with the limb sticker and the ata is an inch long i would venture to say that the brace height is pretty low and the poundage is also real low. In that case the tune chart would probably be closer. Just cant imagine that the Buss cable being .25 inches long would make the ATA out by an inch


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## Ziad

Thanks for the input guys.

According to Ray there was a recalled for this bow and hout changed the specs. Safest bet is to go with the tune chart. Thanks again guys for the help.


----------



## gavrone

Can any one tell me the length of the serving of the control cable on a PSE Supramax ?


----------



## nestly

gavrone said:


> Can any one tell me the length of the serving of the control cable on a PSE Supramax ?


[
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1067563200


----------



## gavrone

nestly said:


> [
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1067563200


Thanks!


----------



## bigdogjp

Ok guys, been doing some practice runs & I'm happy with how they are looking. How ever I'm struggling with my finished thickness. I've been working with fury & halo .14, if I use a 30 strand I'm coming out at about .113-.114" ish. So I went to 28 strand & turned out around .107-.108" my target thickness is between .100-.104" at least that's where the stock ones measure. Is 26 strand pushing too thin or do I try to find a thinner serving material? What do you guys use & what's your thicknesses? Any tricks? Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

what bow is it for?


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

On all Elite bows i run 28 on strings and cables, .014 halo for cables and 2x for the string ends


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## bigdogjp

I have several bows in the family, mostly bowtech & elite. I know the elite can run a tad bigger according to the existing strings on the bow. What does your 28 strand measure out at?


----------



## griffga

bigdogjp said:


> I have several bows in the family, mostly bowtech & elite. I know the elite can run a tad bigger according to the existing strings on the bow. What does your 28 strand measure out at?


I'm also wondering this...


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Well that 4 post that I built holds up. Just stretched a string on it at 325 pounds so I seriously doubt it flexes by hand.


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## dbierman

Another progress post on the string jig.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Looking good man!


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## b0w_bender

Ya that's a nice looking setup!


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## NoDeerInIowa

Nice! Should be able to build ropes with that one.


----------



## nestly

NoDeerInIowa said:


> Nice! Should be able to build ropes with that one.


Yep, the weakest point(s) are going to be the strut bending, and the pins. I still think you're working against yourself with the 3/8 pin though. My initial thought was to go bigger than 1/4 as well, but it didn't take me long to realize that it was counter productive. Even if you use the 1/4" portion, the leverage is going to break/bend the 3/8 post just as quick or quicker than just using a 1/4 post down low. Another thing about using the upper part of the step bolt is that it's going to negate the benefit of the thrust bearing. I put bronze shoulder bushings in both ends of the sleeves, but there was still considerable binding until I got my string down to the centerline of the sleeves. I actually cut mine 0.050 below center so the string (~0.10 dia) would be dead center.


----------



## dbierman

You may be right. It's a trial and error project at this point.

The 1/4" shoulder would only be used for layout of the string and the 3/8" shoulder used for stretching.

If it fails I plan to cut the ends off and center drill the shafts use an "L" shaped bolt.

The strut is going to be mounted to a 4x4 or I may weld a piece of 3/8" X 2" flat stock verticle under the strut.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

The 4x4 will work nicely, Thats what mine are bolted to, and i can put 600 plus pounds on a 100 inch string, and never ride up the posts


----------



## olliedog

Wow. I wish I had your fabrication skills. Looks so solid. One question I have is if you think you have enough threads on the tensioning end to accommodate the string stretch and spring compression/takeup? Just wondering. Please don't take that as a criticism, I'd die for a jig like that . I just know on mine I use all the threads I have to get a long single cam string up to tension.
CR


----------



## dbierman

Idk, have to wait and see.


----------



## caspian

I have my rail bolted to a 90mm square pressure laminated jarrah post, with the laminations aligned vertically. bend is not something I need to deal with.

has anyone found that Hoyt's specs tend to have the buss cable longer than it needs to be? if I built to tune chart spec, I always end up twisting the buss up to get the bow synced. I now build around 1/8" short on the buss and I end up with about the same twist rate in the buss and control cables, which looks a lot nicer with multiple colours.


----------



## nestly

caspian said:


> has anyone found that Hoyt's specs tend to have the buss cable longer than it needs to be? if I built to tune chart spec, I always end up twisting the buss up to get the bow synced. I now build around 1/8" short on the buss and I end up with about the same twist rate in the buss and control cables, which looks a lot nicer with multiple colours.


How long do you make your yokes? because where you serve the split affects the overall installed length (longer yoke = longer buss cable) As shown below all three would measure 38 on the stretcher @ 100 lbs tension, but the 7" yoke would be shorter when installed than the 9" yoke.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

nestly said:


> How long do you make your yokes? because where you serve the split affects the overall installed length (longer yoke = longer buss cable) As shown below all three would measure 38 on the stretcher @ 100 lbs tension, but the 7" yoke would be shorter when installed than the 9" yoke.


Yep bingo.

deal wiht that all the time when i build 8 inch yokes on the bow tech OD binary bows, I have never had a problem with hoyts coming in a little long. Also are you adding twists to the yoke legs? I usually add 1 twist per inch of yoke leg then put on the stretcher at 100 pounds and lightly burnish to make them round.


----------



## bigdogjp

Still wondering if anyone can help.


bigdogjp said:


> Ok guys, been doing some practice runs & I'm happy with how they are looking. How ever I'm struggling with my finished thickness. I've been working with fury & halo .14, if I use a 30 strand I'm coming out at about .113-.114" ish. So I went to 28 strand & turned out around .107-.108" my target thickness is between .100-.104" at least that's where the stock ones measure. Is 26 strand pushing too thin or do I try to find a thinner serving material? What do you guys use & what's your thicknesses? Any tricks? Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## nuts&bolts

bigdogjp said:


> Still wondering if anyone can help.


Go thinner on the serving.


----------



## nestly

bigdogjp said:


> my target thickness is between .100-.104" at least that's where the stock ones measure.


For center serving or end serving? My experience is that "stock" center serving diameter is usually around .110 and up.


----------



## Huntinsker

bigdogjp said:


> Still wondering if anyone can help.


Are you making sure to dewax the colors and to burnish the area you're going to serve? Also, what tension are you stretching the string to before serving and are you serving good and tight?


----------



## bigdogjp

On my 30 strand string I followed the info to a tee. On the 28 strand I did in all one sitting skipping the stretch & relax times. I did burnish & I serve as tight as I dare. I was looking in lancaster magazine & there is only one thinner option that is thinner than the halo I'm useing unless I'm reading it wrong. What are you guys measuring on your 28 strand? Is 26 too thin?


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

bigdogjp said:


> On my 30 strand string I followed the info to a tee. On the 28 strand I did in all one sitting skipping the stretch & relax times. I did burnish & I serve as tight as I dare. I was looking in lancaster magazine & there is only one thinner option that is thinner than the halo I'm useing unless I'm reading it wrong. What are you guys measuring on your 28 strand? Is 26 too thin?


You could use 2x on the string. The twisted material lays down really flat. .015 2x lays down much smaller than halo. For the cables you could use Bullwhip. It lays flatter than halo and should yield a little smaller end diameter. Also you might be able to get away with using .018 Crown or diamondback, as both of them lay pretty flat when served.

I do know that .018 diamond back yields around the same finished diameter as .014 halo, but you can serve it a bit tighter, the crown is about the same but the tensile strength on Crown is much higher than halo and you can serve it very tight.


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## tarheels1321

wondering what is the cost to make one of these?


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## caspian

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> Yep bingo.
> 
> deal wiht that all the time when i build 8 inch yokes on the bow tech OD binary bows, I have never had a problem with hoyts coming in a little long. Also are you adding twists to the yoke legs? I usually add 1 twist per inch of yoke leg then put on the stretcher at 100 pounds and lightly burnish to make them round.


I replicate the factory strings if they are available, or use serving specs from here. not using longer than normal yoke legs. yes, I twist the yoke legs and burnish.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Also the lower the poundage bow, the more of a difference the yoke length will make on draw weight. 

Also I have recently began to experiment. A little bit.

Most people in their time of building strings has encountered the BUMPS at least once. I have not dealt with bumps in a good while, and was not too busy so I set out to determine the primary cause, by building a bunch of test stuff, and changing a thing here or there in the attempt to see the effect. What I found was that the primary cause of the bumps is uneven wax content. Which can be caused by several things. With waxy materials when you de wax it is incredibly important to do so consistently, I find that masons line works well.

I also experimented with burnishing in different ways with different materials. Like to confirm my theory of . The wax and burnishing or de waxing prior to being ready to serve, I used some 452 x material, and built a string all Flo green from the same spool, played it out like a 2 color string and served the ends. Inserted a piece of string material on each end so I could separate the bundles later and wrapped one around one bundle, and the other around the other bundle then twisted each separator around itself like a bread tie. The colored each separator with a different color marker so I could differentiate the bundles from one another after being twisted. Then only dewaxed one bundle. When the string was twisted take a guess which bundle had bumps. That's right the one that I dewaxed prior to twisting.

With low wax materials I was only able to get the bumps when burnishing before twisting and burnishing on the stretcher before the strands have equalized. which. Explains why I have not chased the bumps in a good while. I really only buy low wax materials from BCY and do not de wax or burnish at all until after the string has been stretched and relaxed and I am ready to serve. I then take a piece of cotton masons line and make a loop. I wrap the loop around the string twice pull tight and give one pass up the full length of the string, and one pass back. While at around 200 pounds of tension.

So......
I know this is not very scientific but I believe firmly that the cause of the bumps is uneven wax content wether you cause it when de waxing or the material itself is overly waxy, also I have found that with non blended materials like Fury that sometimes have a higher wax content, when stretching above 500 pounds the bumps started to come back when I changed the de waxing process. I contribute this to the strands moving to equalize too quickly and not taking their share of the wax with them. So basically leaving wax build up in a single spot causing bumps. 

My advice to avoid bumps is to buy low wax material and do not burnish before ready to serve.


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## automan26

tarheels1321 said:


> wondering what is the cost to make one of these?


The El-Cheap-O can be built for around $70.

Automan


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## automan26

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> Also the lower the poundage bow, the more of a difference the yoke length will make on draw weight.
> 
> Also I have recently began to experiment. A little bit.
> 
> Most people in their time of building strings has encountered the BUMPS at least once. I have not dealt with bumps in a good while, and was not too busy so I set out to determine the primary cause, by building a bunch of test stuff, and changing a thing here or there in the attempt to see the effect. What I found was that the primary cause of the bumps is uneven wax content. Which can be caused by several things. With waxy materials when you de wax it is incredibly important to do so consistently, I find that masons line works well.
> 
> I also experimented with burnishing in different ways with different materials. Like to confirm my theory of . The wax and burnishing or de waxing prior to being ready to serve, I used some 452 x material, and built a string all Flo green from the same spool, played it out like a 2 color string and served the ends. Inserted a piece of string material on each end so I could separate the bundles later and wrapped one around one bundle, and the other around the other bundle then twisted each separator around itself like a bread tie. The colored each separator with a different color marker so I could differentiate the bundles from one another after being twisted. Then only dewaxed one bundle. When the string was twisted take a guess which bundle had bumps. That's right the one that I dewaxed prior to twisting.
> 
> With low wax materials I was only able to get the bumps when burnishing before twisting and burnishing on the stretcher before the strands have equalized. which. Explains why I have not chased the bumps in a good while. I really only buy low wax materials from BCY and do not de wax or burnish at all until after the string has been stretched and relaxed and I am ready to serve. I then take a piece of cotton masons line and make a loop. I wrap the loop around the string twice pull tight and give one pass up the full length of the string, and one pass back. While at around 200 pounds of tension.
> 
> So......
> I know this is not very scientific but I believe firmly that the cause of the bumps is uneven wax content wether you cause it when de waxing or the material itself is overly waxy, also I have found that with non blended materials like Fury that sometimes have a higher wax content, when stretching above 500 pounds the bumps started to come back when I changed the de waxing process. I contribute this to the strands moving to equalize too quickly and not taking their share of the wax with them. So basically leaving wax build up in a single spot causing bumps.
> 
> My advice to avoid bumps is to buy low wax material and do not burnish before ready to serve.


I also did some experimenting and came up with a similar conclusion to that which you shared. I built a single color split buss cable and decided to build it as I would build a string, then tie off the yoke section and unwind the two legs of the cable then serve the loops. I built the cable, de-waxed it heavily, twisted it up and burnished it quite heavily. When I tried to separate the strands to form the yoke legs I found that the wax had bound the strands together so tightly that separating them was nearly impossible Once the cable was finished, I relaxed the tension on the jig and the bumps appeared. My conclusion was that the wax was bonding the strands so tightly that they were unable to slip over themselves as the cable contracted. On previous strings which were built perfectly, I noticed that if I had to add a few twists to shorten the string to spec, bumps appeared where there were no bumps previously. After burnishing, the wax welds the strands together and there is no allowance for movement, thus a bump has to appear to compensate for what's going on inside the bundle.

After building the cable I mentioned above, I tossed it and built an identical cable but changed my procedure a bit. After laying it out I gently de-waxed the bundles, then twisted it up, and finished everything before burnishing. When I burnished it I made sure not to go crazy with the tension on my burnishing string and when I was all finished there were no bumps at all.

As you mentioned above, wax is the bad guy here. You are correct in stating that the wax is bunching up, but what I think is happening is that the wax is bunching up the strands, then locking them in place so they cannot move and therefore cannot contract correctly when relaxed. 

It all boils down to not going crazy when de-waxing and not burnishing until everything is finished and, when burnishing, not using excessive pressure on the burnishing string. Moderation is the best approach. Also, as you pointed out, low wax string material is definitely a wise choice.

ThanX for your post. You definitely cleared up some things about those nasty bumps. You helped me to further understand why those stupid bumps seem to appear for no reason at all.

Automan


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Uneven strand tension can also cause it, but like i said i believe the wax to be the primary culprit, be it that it causes the uneven strands


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## tarheels1321

automan26 said:


> The El-Cheap-O can be built for around $70.
> 
> Automan


thank you


----------



## bowshooter73

Got bored this morning and cobbled together a spooler and pinstripe tie off post.


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## bryanroberts

bowshooter73 said:


> Got bored this morning and cobbled together a spooler and pinstripe tie off post.


Looks good!


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## automan26

bowshooter73 said:


> Got bored this morning and cobbled together a spooler and pinstripe tie off post.


That is a sweet setup. What size carriage bolt did you use? I want to build that.

Automan


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## bowshooter73

1/2-13. The tie off bolts are 10-24. After I started using it, I realized I didn't really need the wing nuts.


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## jhinaz

bowshooter73 said:


> 1/2-13. The tie off bolts are 10-24. After I started using it, I realized I didn't really need the wing nuts.


Nice work bowshooter73. If you change your mind and decide to keep the wing nuts I recommend that you remove one thread between your locking nut and the wing nut (and polish it) so it has a smooth area to wrap your string on....otherwise you can nick your string when you tighten the wing nut (don't ask me how I know this) ;-) - John


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## bowshooter73

I thought about using machine dow pins if I ever built a permanent jig. I figured the threads would nick up the material, but said the heck with it since they were just tag ends. I was more worried about cutting them and not have enough to finish the end loops. Most of the thought on this was after it was together and in use. Got up to hunt this morning and it was raining and warm, the 5am buzz kill. Since I was up, I just head out to the shop.


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## dbierman

*String build*

I'm gonna have to say so far my string building fixture has been a success.

The thing has worked perfect for me so far. I was gonna just do the 3 post jig and build my strings that was but at the last minute while I had all my stuff out and I had enough materiel so I didn't have to buy anything additional I went ahead and built a 4 post just to lay out the strings and do the end loops.

It works great and has zero flex and the same for the stretching fixture.

After stretching over night just to see how much it would stretch, wasn't much, only about a 1/4" of spring movement. The next morning I put the twist in it and let it sit twisted for a couple hours because I had something else to do. Then I had to take a couple twist out to get the length correct and then did the end servings and center serving.

So far so good, now I gotta see if I can make the cables.

Pictures attached.

BTW, i had almost 400lbs on it over night and no flex whatsoever. I move the string down to the 3/8" post for stretching and then up to the 1'4" post to do my measuring and servings.

I made plates to go under the jigs with 1/2" nuts welded to them to make adjusting and switching out very quick and easy. And it only takes 1/2 turn to tighten or loosen it to get it to move.

Hopefully someone can use my ideas and make an even better setup than this, which is what I did. Without all the pictures info and ideas on here I doubt I would have ever tried this.


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## dbierman

More pictures.


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## dbierman

more
View attachment 3154322

View attachment 3154330

View attachment 3154338

View attachment 3154354

View attachment 3154362


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## dbierman

I've got a few more but I keep getting an error telling me I can only add 5 pictures per post.


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## dbierman

A few more.


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## dbierman

Last ones.


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## caspian

looks bulletproof. trying backing your tension off to about 50lb while you start your end serving, it allows you to pull the loop ends together flush and avoids gapping. once you've got the loop closed and maybe 1/2" onto the string itself, come back to full serving tension, maybe bump the serving back towards the loop to make sure it is packed tight, and continue as normal.


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## dfivdayz

Hey dbierman...on the jig with the spring...did you just weld in a plate on the end of the tube that the shaft goes through or am I wrong?....what did you do.....also do your set pins screw in place or are they just self setting ones?.....thanks


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## dbierman

That's a solid round 1 1/2" bar stock with a 3/4" hole through the center. I intuitively drilled it 1/64th small and then use a 3/4" boring bar to get a smooth 3/4" inside diameter. 

The pins are actually shoulder bolts. The bottom one is a 3/8" with the head cut off and center drilled and tapped for the 1/4" shoulder bolt to screw into.


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## dbierman

If you're talking about the back of the spring that's a flange nut. The wide part is made to the nut. I drilled the threads out of the nut to 3/4" and then slid it over the round bar, welded it to the end and filled the end with weld then smoothed it off.


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## dbierman

caspian said:


> looks bulletproof. trying backing your tension off to about 50lb while you start your end serving, it allows you to pull the loop ends together flush and avoids gapping. once you've got the loop closed and maybe 1/2" onto the string itself, come back to full serving tension, maybe bump the serving back towards the loop to make sure it is packed tight, and continue as normal.


I'll try that next time for sure.


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## dfivdayz

That's some good hand drill work....is it cordless?...?...lol lol

Wish I had your machinery....

is the bolt that is in the cutout on top a shoulder bolt too?....what size?


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## dbierman

Yes it's a 3/8" shoulder bolt with a section of 3/8" id stainless tubing over it to make it a roller.


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## archeryhunterME

how many string sets could one make if you were to do string and cables all the same color out of a single 1/8 # roll? I am going to make my own jig and would like to try some samples first obviously but don't want to spend a couple $100 on string material until I get better and know what I will want. So I was thinking of making the test pieces and first set out of the same single color and was wondering how many could be made roughly from the single 1/8 roll


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## bowshooter73

Off an 1/8lb spool of "X" after waste you can get about 4 sets, maybe 3 if your doing longer axle to axle bows.


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## nestly

archeryhunterME said:


> how many string sets could one make if you were to do string and cables all the same color out of a single 1/8 # roll? I am going to make my own jig and would like to try some samples first obviously but don't want to spend a couple $100 on string material until I get better and know what I will want. So I was thinking of making the test pieces and first set out of the same single color and was wondering how many could be made roughly from the single 1/8 roll


1/8 lb. spool BCY 452X = *1100* feet (approx)
Average length of string + cable + buss on 34" bow = approx 134 inches times 24 strands = *268* feet per set.

1100
÷ 268
*4.1*


----------



## archeryhunterME

So I think I want to start out trying the Fury, with this are people using 22 strands for the string and 24 for the cables? also I want to know what people are using for serving for the center serving to get a nice snug nock-fit. I had a string that came on a PSE one time and it was loose and was horrible to deal with.

Also what is the toughest as far as durability serving material for cams and cables? if possible would I be able to use the center serving that gives a good nock fit for the other servings as well? 

Thanks guys


----------



## ias

Hi!
I've started to build a string jig and when it comes to make my first string, I'm not sure about the diameter of the end serving material. What do you use? 
I was thinking about 0.021 diameter ...
BCY Powergrip or maybe BCY No. 62-XS. What do you suggest?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## deerbum

I use .014 Halo for the cable ends, 40# Chinese spectra fishing line for string ends (to save a few bucks), and .018 Powergrip for the center serving. The spectra seems to hold up fine on the string but something with better gripping ability is needed for the cable ends. If money wasn't an issue I would use Halo for all the end servings.


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## bryanroberts

archeryhunterME said:


> So I think I want to start out trying the Fury, with this are people using 22 strands for the string and 24 for the cables? also I want to know what people are using for serving for the center serving to get a nice snug nock-fit. I had a string that came on a PSE one time and it was loose and was horrible to deal with.
> 
> Also what is the toughest as far as durability serving material for cams and cables? if possible would I be able to use the center serving that gives a good nock fit for the other servings as well?
> 
> Thanks guys


As a starting place most are using 28 on string and 32 on cables with fury. Bcyx 24/28
I also use .21 diamond back or .18 powergrip depending on which nock I'm using for center serving. End serving I'm a .14 halo guy but I have tried some bullwhip recently and really liked it.


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## Huntinsker

archeryhunterME said:


> So I think I want to start out trying the Fury, with this are people using 22 strands for the string and 24 for the cables? also I want to know what people are using for serving for the center serving to get a nice snug nock-fit. I had a string that came on a PSE one time and it was loose and was horrible to deal with.
> 
> Also what is the toughest as far as durability serving material for cams and cables? if possible would I be able to use the center serving that gives a good nock fit for the other servings as well?
> 
> Thanks guys





ias said:


> Hi!
> I've started to build a string jig and when it comes to make my first string, I'm not sure about the diameter of the end serving material. What do you use?
> I was thinking about 0.021 diameter ...
> BCY Powergrip or maybe BCY No. 62-XS. What do you suggest?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Good to see some new guys jumping into the game. Welcome to the club!!


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## ias

Huntinsker said:


> Good to see some new guys jumping into the game. Welcome to the club!!


Thank you!


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## gavrone

I need to make a picture to have it all the time in front when I serve. Did I get it right?


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## caspian

in both pics, top is correct as twisting will tighten the serving. bottom is backwards. makes no difference if you serve loop in or centre out, what is important is the twist direction to serving direction.


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## lunghit

I'm sure its been talked about here but can someone please tell me the best way to spool serving thread onto small spools. I bought a large bulk spool of Halo and transferring it to little spools is not going so well. I made the set-up here in the pic but getting a smooth layout of thread onto the spool is not really happening. Some loose spots and some tight spots.


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## freefall619

lunghit said:


> I'm sure its been talked about here but can someone please tell me the best way to spool serving thread onto small spools. I bought a large bulk spool of Halo and transferring it to little spools is not going so well. I made the set-up here in the pic but getting a smooth layout of thread onto the spool is not really happening. Some loose spots and some tight spots.


That's similar to what I have been doing for a couple years. I would like to hear some suggestions as well. Thanks.


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## skynight

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CI...ne+spooler&dpPl=1&dpID=51ZDSpbLcJL&ref=plSrch

I don't know if a big spool if halo will fit on this but it works for the fishing line spools. I just put the empty spool on my beiter shaft and Chuck it in the drill. It's not perfect result but pretty good.

Bought that on recommendation from somebody on AT.


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## lunghit

skynight said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CI...ne+spooler&dpPl=1&dpID=51ZDSpbLcJL&ref=plSrch
> 
> I don't know if a big spool if halo will fit on this but it works for the fishing line spools. I just put the empty spool on my beiter shaft and Chuck it in the drill. It's not perfect result but pretty good.
> 
> Bought that on recommendation from somebody on AT.


That looks good but will probably not work with the large spool of Halo because its a cone shape. Maybe its time to switch over to braided fishing line. If I do this looks like the way to go. Thanks


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## automan26

I have a lot of junk laying around and a lot of time today, so I though I would tackle the spooler dilemma. I had to use what was available in my parts pile, so some the the parts in the pic are not exactly correct, but they will suffice for a pic.

I discovered that the flanges around an empty serving spool fit nicely in the bottom, tapered part of the large spool. I am assuming that your bulk material comes on a spool similar to this one. The bulk serving I have seen in the past come on a similar spool.

Parts List:

1/4" X 7" carriage bolt (The one in the pic is 6")
1/4 X 20 lock nut--2
1 1/4" OD fender washer--2
1 1/4" OD plastic washer--2 (the ones in the pic are bigger)
1/4 X 20 wingnut--1
SuperStrut square plate--1
SuperStrut square nut 1/4 X 20--1
Empty serving thread spool--1
Masking tape

More to come.

Automan


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## automan26

I think that you can look at the pics and figure out the assembly procedure.

If you use this spooler in conjunction with the empty spool chucked up as in one of the pics above, I think the option will do what you are looking for. I made my prototype using 1/4 X 20 components and I think it would work fine, but you might consider upgrading to 5/16" parts instead of 1/4" parts. (Maybe)

Notice the masking tape around the top and bottom spool halves. This is necessary to compensate for some considerable clearance between the components. Lock nuts are important. If you do not use lock nuts the rotation of the spool will loosen the nuts and you will lose tension on the spool as you transfer the material. If you cannot find a lock nut you can easily make one. Place a regular nut between the jaws of a vice and clamp it down until the pressure knocks the thread hole out of round just a bit. I have done this hundreds of times and it works great. The nut will thread on the bolt very stiffly and will not move on its own.

Automan


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## acoolengineer

This is a great thread with a ton of information. Thanks!


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## automan26

acoolengineer said:


> This is a great thread with a ton of information. Thanks!


Welcome aboard--Glad to have you with us.

Automan


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## lunghit

Thanks automan. You just gave me an idea on how to use my string clamp to hold the large spool of Halo nice and tight.


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## ias

gavrone said:


> I need to make a picture to have it all the time in front when I serve. Did I get it right?
> 
> 
> View attachment 3179409


Sorry, I don't get it! 
Can someone please explain it to me? I thought, that the direction of the serving has to be the same like the drill of the strands - so if you drill the strands clockwise, then you have to serve also clockwise!?

On the top left picture the drill ist counterclockwise, but the serving goes clockwise or am I wrong!?


----------



## Huntinsker

ias said:


> Sorry, I don't get it!
> Can someone please explain it to me? I thought, that the direction of the serving has to be the same like the drill of the strands - so if you drill the strands clockwise, then you have to serve also clockwise!?
> 
> On the top left picture the drill ist counterclockwise, but the serving goes clockwise or am I wrong!?


I would refer you to page #111 and post #2775. There's a great video that nestly put together. He shows the relationship between the direction of physical twisting and then what the string looks like and then the direction that you serve and what the serving looks like. When he twists the string clockwise and then serves clockwise, that's what you want.


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## dbierman

Seems confusing


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## Huntinsker

dbierman said:


> Seems confusing


It's not. There's only one correct way and one wrong way. If your twists get tighter in front of your serving jig, you're doing it correctly. If they get looser in front of your jig, you're doing it backwards. It's that simple.


----------



## b0w_bender

Here is a post from another thread that I made.

It is my contention that videos are the only real way to illustrate how a string should be served. Below is what seems to be the most common perhaps "preferred" direction. These are all specific to compound strings so again use your own experience to ID the best way for a recurve string.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50TF2sM-1UQ (despite my agreement clockwise is most common you'll note my video is counter-clockwise twist)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ceowQdAtU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JBKVGNtS4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVllzfhT2Wg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhjWGTA3rBA


----------



## automan26

Here is a very easy way to determine serving direction. Twist up your string then stand in the center of the string and face one of the posts. Picture in your mind the direction that post would have to turn in order to add twists. If you like, have someone else turn the post to add twists. If you are serving toward the post, serve in the opposite direction of observed post rotation. If you are serving away from the post, serve in the same direction as observed post rotation. Do this with both ends of the string. Follow the exact same procedure when doing the center serving. Don't over-think it, just do it and you will be OK.

This is how I do it when confused and it works every time.

Automan


----------



## gavrone

We keep talking about the serving direction it confuses me a lot. I was thinking that the serving should tighten up if the string will untwist itself but you guys are saying the opposite. What would be the reasoning behind? I thought the often situation would be the untwisting of the string due to the loosing. Am I wrong?


----------



## ias

Thank you very much, guys! I think, I got it!


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Another way, I am not sure if it was mentioned. 

What I do is twist clockwise always, then always serve clockwise in the direction of travel remember clockwise, both ways and you will never screw it up


----------



## ias

Hi!
It's me again! 
I've read a lot about building strings in the last few days and I've finished building my own string jig last weekend. Now, I'm eager to build my first string. I tend to use Brownell Fury as my string material of choice. What I'm not sure about is the initial post distance to start with. My string has to be 53,75" at the end and there are a few formulas I've heard about for example: string length x 1.008 = initial post distance or like in the beginning of this thread.
I've also heard, that Brownell streches different than BCY 452X and that I maybe have to choose another initial post distance - about 1/8" longer? 
And the distance also depends on the amount of serving ... the more serving, the longer the initial post distance has to be. Right?

So I would try to go with

(53.75" x 1.008) + 1/8" = 54.18 + 0.125 = 54.305

as initial post distance. Any suggestions, ideas or better formulas?

I don't wanna end up building my first string and throwing it into the trash afterwards...


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

I use 1.009 for fury.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

But that may change based on your process.


----------



## Huntinsker

ias said:


> Hi!
> It's me again!
> I've read a lot about building strings in the last few days and I've finished building my own string jig last weekend. Now, I'm eager to build my first string. I tend to use Brownell Fury as my string material of choice. What I'm not sure about is the initial post distance to start with. My string has to be 53,75" at the end and there are a few formulas I've heard about for example: string length x 1.008 = initial post distance or like in the beginning of this thread.
> I've also heard, that Brownell streches different than BCY 452X and that I maybe have to choose another initial post distance - about 1/8" longer?
> And the distance also depends on the amount of serving ... the more serving, the longer the initial post distance has to be. Right?
> 
> So I would try to go with
> 
> (53.75" x 1.008) + 1/8" = 54.18 + 0.125 = 54.305
> 
> as initial post distance. Any suggestions, ideas or better formulas?
> 
> I don't wanna end up building my first string and throwing it into the trash afterwards...


Honestly, it's a bit of a guessing game. What I recommend to people is to build a 30", 60", and 90" string and use whatever formula you want to try. Set the initial post setting exactly to what the formula tells you and then see based on your build process how much you need to change it. These 3 strings will give you practice laying out material and doing the end loops and it'll give you a better idea in how you need to adjust your formula based on your personal build style.


----------



## caspian

Huntinsker said:


> It's not. There's only one correct way and one wrong way. If your twists get tighter in front of your serving jig, you're doing it correctly. If they get looser in front of your jig, you're doing it backwards. It's that simple.


exactly.



gavrone said:


> View attachment 3203897
> 
> 
> I was thinking that the serving should tighten up if the string will untwist itself but you guys are saying the opposite. What would be the reasoning behind? I thought the often situation would be the untwisting of the string due to the loosing. Am I wrong?


99% of the time you twist strings up, not loosen them. strings stretch a lot more than they contract. if you serve such that adding twists loosens the serving, sooner or later you will have a serving come undone.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

caspian said:


> exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> 99% of the time you twist strings up, not loosen them. strings stretch a lot more than they contract. if you serve such that adding twists loosens the serving, sooner or later you will have a serving come undone.


If served properly when you add twists will actually tighten the serving to an extent. Thats why if your build is a weeee bit off in length its best to be just a hair long, then you can add twists if needed without damaging the stability of the string or cable. I do however suggest measuring for length and adjusting before serving or burnishing, then when you burnish and serve the string will lengthen slightly, very slightly. Once it has rested you check for length again and adjust as needed.

also i have noticed that serving away from the loop tends to make things a little easier as far as making a great end product. It may take a little longer to make a nice looking transition, but a better way to do it. I am not saying that serving toward the loop is insufficient, just i have noticed the over all quality and longevity of the string or cable is better when serving toward the center of the string. also like i said earlier i twist clockwise and then serve clockwise facing the center of the string, can screw it up that way, and you ca serve a lot tighter without effecting the peep rotation.


----------



## gavrone

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> If served properly when you add twists will actually tighten the serving to an extent. Thats why if your build is a weeee bit off in length its best to be just a hair long, then you can add twists if needed without damaging the stability of the string or cable. I do however suggest measuring for length and adjusting before serving or burnishing, then when you burnish and serve the string will lengthen slightly, very slightly. Once it has rested you check for length again and adjust as needed.
> 
> also i have noticed that serving away from the loop tends to make things a little easier as far as making a great end product. It may take a little longer to make a nice looking transition, but a better way to do it. I am not saying that serving toward the loop is insufficient, just i have noticed the over all quality and longevity of the string or cable is better when serving toward the center of the string. also like i said earlier i twist clockwise and then serve clockwise facing the center of the string, can screw it up that way, and you ca serve a lot tighter without effecting the peep rotation.











So clockwise twisting, clockwise serving, right!?


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## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> Another way, I am not sure if it was mentioned.
> 
> What I do is twist clockwise always, then always serve clockwise in the direction of travel remember clockwise, both ways and you will never screw it up


This is all you be need to know. Just do it by rote and quit thinking about it. Read this sentence ten times, then go serve stuff.


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## nestly

gavrone said:


> So clockwise twisting, clockwise serving, right!?


Yes, twist clockwise and serve clockwise. The image you attached shows a string that's twisted *clockwise*, however it also shows the serving being applied *counter-clockwise*. If you were to stretch out that serving, you'd see that the serving is running the same direction as the strands in the string....that's INCORRECT. You want the serving to wrap "across" the string strands, not wrap "with" them.

Here's another video.


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Yes, twist clockwise and serve clockwise. The image you attached shows a string that's twisted *clockwise*, however it also shows the serving being applied *counter-clockwise*. If you were to stretch out that serving, you'd see that the serving is running the same direction as the strands in the string....that's INCORRECT. You want the serving to wrap "across" the string strands, not wrap "with" them.
> 
> Here's another video.


Your video is private neslty.


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## Huntinsker

gavrone said:


> View attachment 3210681
> 
> 
> So clockwise twisting, clockwise serving, right!?


Your wording is correct, your picture is wrong. The direction of travel of your serving is just as important as the direction of rotation. To try to make this easy please imagine that you're looking at your jig from the side and the end that you twist with is to your right. 

In this scenario, when twisting your string clockwise, you will turn the handle of your jig away from you. When serving from the post towards the middle of the string, you'll also rotate your serving jig clockwise so that it's moving away from you as it goes over the top of the string. 

Now keep that post on your right in your mind and serve towards the post. This will require you to move the serving jig over the top of the string coming towards you. It will be the opposite direction that you've served in your above picture.


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## dysong195

The picture posted by gavrone is the way my old man taught me to serve. Although he does serve with the string under a known tension and the serving jig also to a known tension. He has specific setup information for different string and serving material and also serves using string clamps. Oops, just noticed he's already been in this discussion so I might just let everyone do their own thing.


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## nestly

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> If served properly when you add twists will actually tighten the serving to an extent. ....


Actually adding twists to the string lessens the number of wraps on the serving(s) thereby "loosening" the servings.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Yes, twist clockwise and serve clockwise. The image you attached shows a string that's twisted *clockwise*, however it also shows the serving being applied *counter-clockwise*. If you were to stretch out that serving, you'd see that the serving is running the same direction as the strands in the string....that's INCORRECT. You want the serving to wrap "across" the string strands, not wrap "with" them.
> 
> Here's another video.


Nice video again! Wish I had that cool software. :thumbs_up


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## poetic

tag...


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## Huntinsker

poetic said:


> tag...


You're it?


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## poetic

no... still reading and re-reading. not quite getting it. im sure it is really easy. i think i might just need a video instead of your pictures. but not gonna give up. that would be a video i'd buy. from assembly of the jig, to all parts of the strings, bus, and cables. how to know how many strands, and any other info. it may take a while but i will read thou all 131 pages. or skim. lol..... thanks for trying to teach me. maybe eventually, ill get it.


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## dwagoner

nestly said:


> Yes, twist clockwise and serve clockwise. You want the serving to wrap "across" the string strands, not wrap "with" them.
> ]



MAN all you guys are making this extremely way too hard, confusing and complicated...... quit with referring to which way the string strands look and keep it simple.... if you twist the end loops clockwise on your string then you simply rotate serving jig clockwise also..... IF you twist opposite then serve opposite...

STOP looking at the strands of string material and trying to reference that as to how its twisted....


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## nestly

dwagoner said:


> MAN all you guys are making this extremely way too hard, confusing and complicated...... quit with referring to which way the string strands look and keep it simple.... if you twist the end loops clockwise on your string then you simply rotate serving jig clockwise also..... IF you twist opposite then serve opposite...
> 
> STOP looking at the strands of string material and trying to reference that as to how its twisted....


Not everyone visualizes the same way, which is why there are so many different descriptions by different people describing the same thing, and why questions about serving direction are rarely answered with a single reply. Clockwise/counter-clockwise means nothing by itself, you also have to consider whether the serving is being applied left to right or right to left. "Clockwise" also means nothing if you're re-applying a serving to an existing string of unknown origin or one that's already installed on a bow. Personally, I find nothing more simple than to make sure the serving and the string are wrapped in opposite directions, which IMO is not intuitively what people think is happening when you simply tell them to "twist clockwise and serve clockwise" even though in reality it's the same thing.


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## gavrone

So again my question stands: the serving should tighten itself when twist or when untwist the string? The video above shows how to serv against when others sais to serve along (like in my picture). Depending on that I will choose the direction of the serving. So when u adjust the length later you either loosen or tighten the serving depending on the serving direction. 
What are the other pros and cons of one direction or the other?


----------



## skynight

nestly said:


> Not everyone visualizes the same way, which is why there are so many different descriptions by different people describing the same thing, and why questions about serving direction are rarely answered with a single reply. Clockwise/counter-clockwise means nothing by itself, you also have to consider whether the serving is being applied left to right or right to left. "Clockwise" also means nothing if you're re-applying a serving to an existing string of unknown origin or one that's already installed on a bow. Personally, I find nothing more simple than to make sure the serving and the string are wrapped in opposite directions, which IMO is not intuitively what people think is happening when you simply tell them to "twist clockwise and serve clockwise" even though in reality it's the same thing.


Clockwise is always clockwise. Twist the string clockwise. Serve clockwise in reference to the direction of travel. That's it. No video, no long discussion. No over thinking.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

dwagoner said:


> MAN all you guys are making this extremely way too hard, confusing and complicated...... quit with referring to which way the string strands look and keep it simple.... if you twist the end loops clockwise on your string then you simply rotate serving jig clockwise also..... IF you twist opposite then serve opposite...
> 
> STOP looking at the strands of string material and trying to reference that as to how its twisted....


I agree, i have always found it to be pretty simple


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## nestly

gavrone said:


> So again my question stands: the serving should tighten itself when twist or when untwist the string? The video above shows how to serv against when others sais to serve along (like in my picture). Depending on that I will choose the direction of the serving. So when u adjust the length later you either loosen or tighten the serving depending on the serving direction.
> What are the other pros and cons of one direction or the other?


Virtually everyone in this 131 page thread (including me) advocates twisting clockwise and serving clockwise. This causes the serving to go "across" the twists, not "along" with the twists which might seem like a contradiction, but it is not. When twisting, you're turning the string, and during serving the string remains stationary and you're turning the serving jig around it. If you refer to the video on page #111, it is clearly shown that twisting clockwise and serving clockwise results in servings that go "across" the twists in the string, which is correct.

As far as tightening/loosening servings when you add twists, you can't have it both ways. There is only one correct direction to serve. If you apply the serving the wrong way, the peep will not stay straight when the tension on the string varies (ie when the bow is drawn) however applying the serving in that direction will cause the serving to "loosen" when twists are added to the string. Solution: Build your strings the right length to begin with so you never have to add or subtract more than a couple of twists.


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## automan26

skynight said:


> Clockwise is always clockwise. Twist the string clockwise. Serve clockwise in reference to the direction of travel. That's it. No video, no long discussion. No over thinking.


Do this!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just do it and STOP TRYING TO ANALYZE THE PROCESS.

*STOP THINKING ABOUT IT TOO MUCH AND JUST DO IT!!!!!!!!*

I build all my strings this way and have NEVER HAD A PROBLEM. 

Automan


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## animal killer

automan26 said:


> Do this!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Just do it and STOP TRYING TO ANALYZE THE PROCESS.
> 
> *STOP THINKING ABOUT IT TOO MUCH AND JUST DO IT!!!!!!!!*
> 
> I build all my strings this way and have NEVER HAD A PROBLEM.
> 
> Automan


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He knows what hes doing. Has helped me a ton the past year with just little things!!


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## gavrone

It's funny coz I hade it from the beginning but this clockwise-clockwise formula mislead it me. For me from now no matter serving travel or away or not from the pole it will be "*across not along*". It's the easiest way to remember. I'm not doing strings so often so I need to make mental memos


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## bowshooter73

What do you do with your material and supplies. I've got a dedicated string table I built 10 or 12 years ago, but it's always a train wreck. Trying to get a little more organized now.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

So......

Today i used the NW Spinner, with a 3000 rpm drill, and dang its pretty fast!

Layed down 16 full inches of serving in 30 seconds! And to think i was going to Buy a serving machine, lol


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## bowshooter73

I went from my old 1200rpm Dewalt 18.2v to the 2000rpm 20v and couldn't get over how much quicker it was. That got me wanting a fast drill or a bigger wheel.


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## michaelgentry87

My progression at making strings in the last 3 months


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## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> My progression at making strings in the last 3 months
> View attachment 3238250
> View attachment 3238258
> View attachment 3238274
> View attachment 3238298


Looking really good!!


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## michaelgentry87

Just wondering I have a 3 post set up now and wanna start doing served loops , any pics on this?


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

wish i had some 3 post, pics but i use all 4 posts, same idea though. to lay up with 3 posts you would figure your normal layout length.

then take your outside to outside measurement of the posts, divide that by 2, subtract 1/4 inch. Now subtract this number from your normal layout length, that will get you real close, may have to fool with it a little bit to get it exact. If you have the baker 2 post like it looks in the pic, i am not sure if his other 2 post piec rotates or not, but if it does then you can just start with all the posts inline and set to you measurement + just a little bit extra length and you should be very close once they are rotated.

Put all of your tag ends on the open 2 post side and serve the center 2 inches or so, but if you bought that jig from Butch Baker i think he includes the spread sheet so that you can just plug the numbers in.


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## dbierman

Is there anyone in this thread in my area? Oakland Tn


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## michaelgentry87

What I was wondering was could u serve on the sides, I did a test last night and I would have to uce clamps and it would have to be offset


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## michaelgentry87




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## Earle J's Custom Strings

if your dual post is swinging as you depicted, start with it inline set for length then swing open. Layout with all tags on the dual post side and serve the center 2 inches. relieve any tension there might be and move the area you just served to the single end an then serve center 2 inches again. you should be really close to correct length. you dont need a lot of tension on your serving tool, maybe 3 or 4 pounds.

To serve on the sides like you have drawn i would think would be difficult to make sure they line up perfectly.


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## skynight

With a 3 post you serve one loop and then swap the entire string and do the other end. Maintaining strand tension is challenging. With only one color it is simple. Close the loop with all the tags first. With 2 colors what I do is close the first loop after serving, then I put it on a bcy mini stretcher unit and move my swingarm to the other end. This way I can serve both ends under tension without untying them. I'm using a little Jon jig. His video just recommends popping the string off and swapping ends.


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## bowshooter73

You could just use two posts then separate them with a separator to serve your loops. You would have to serve as close to your posts as you separator will allow to cut down on waste, but it would work. Just make sure you check and double check you centers and keep an eye on your tension.


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## Huntinsker

bowshooter73 said:


> You could just use two posts then separate them with a separator to serve your loops. You would have to serve as close to your posts as you separator will allow to cut down on waste, but it would work. Just make sure you check and double check you centers and keep an eye on your tension.


I've tried this and the results were not great. I was more difficult than it should have been. It also didn't work well because when inserting the spreader, the whole bundle got pulled tighter so when I removed it, the bundle was slack on the 2 posts. That meant that the tag ends had slipped and bundle was no longer the same length as when I started. I suppose if you could experiment and figure how much you would need to allow for the spreader, you could maybe make it work but it would be a whole lot easier to just build a 4 post jig if you're going to serve the loops.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Huntinsker said:


> I've tried this and the results were not great. I was more difficult than it should have been. It also didn't work well because when inserting the spreader, the whole bundle got pulled tighter so when I removed it, the bundle was slack on the 2 posts. That meant that the tag ends had slipped and bundle was no longer the same length as when I started. I suppose if you could experiment and figure how much you would need to allow for the spreader, you could maybe make it work but it would be a whole lot easier to just build a 4 post jig if you're going to serve the loops.


agreed, 4 post is easier, but if all the tags are tied off at the dual post end and the center 2 inche is served then you can relieve just a little tension and just pull on the string to rotate the other end to the dual post, tension just a little and serve the other loop. you dont have to worry about strand tension as all of the tags are held in place by the first loop serving you did


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## lunghit

So let me ask you guys a question. Lets say I am want to repair an end serving on a cable that's already on a bow. I remove the cable and reserve it. Do you guys immediately put it back on the bow or do you let it sit for a number of hours. After being stretched over 300 pounds for reserving i'm sure it will not be in spec for the bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> So let me ask you guys a question. Lets say I am want to repair an end serving on a cable that's already on a bow. I remove the cable and reserve it. Do you guys immediately put it back on the bow or do you let it sit for a number of hours. After being stretched over 300 pounds for reserving i'm sure it will not be in spec for the bow.


I've thought about that. If I'm doing it here at home, only had to reserve once on my own stuff, then I let it sit for an hour or more. At work when customers are busy and want it done now, I serve it as fast as possible, doing a good job still, and then am slow to reinstall it to try and give it a little time to settle back down to where it was. I'll tell them to give me at least a half hour, 10 to reserve and 20 to reinstall. Not ideal but they usually aren't in an ideal situation to begin with. If they're in no big hurry, I'll tell them 45-1hr and then do something else for a bit to give it a little longer to relax.


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## michaelgentry87

So 4 post is about the only way


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## bowshooter73

Best way to keep tension equal for sure when you doing served end loops.


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## nestly

lunghit said:


> So let me ask you guys a question. Lets say I am want to repair an end serving on a cable that's already on a bow. I remove the cable and reserve it. Do you guys immediately put it back on the bow or do you let it sit for a number of hours. After being stretched over 300 pounds for reserving i'm sure it will not be in spec for the bow.


I may get tied to a stake and burned alive for this, but I really haven't found any benefit to leaving a completed string on the stretcher. If the string is under 300 lbs tension when you serve it, that's all she wrote.... it doesn't matter if I take it off the stretcher immediately, or leave it at 300# for a week, it's as "settled" as it's ever going to be. 

So as far as replacing a serving, I personally would put it on the stretcher @ 300 lbs and remove any remaining portions of the serving to be replaced, then re-apply serving (still at 300#) remove from the stretcher for maybe 5 minutes to "relax" then fine tune the length at 100 lbs tension and re-install it. 4-5 shots to "settle" the end loops on the posts and the sharp bends in the cam tracks then check timing. Nothing should move/stretch from then on.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

nestly said:


> I may get tied to a stake and burned alive for this, but I really haven't found any benefit to leaving a completed string on the stretcher. If the string is under 300 lbs tension when you serve it, that's all she wrote.... it doesn't matter if I take it off the stretcher immediately, or leave it at 300# for a week, it's as "settled" as it's ever going to be.
> 
> So as far as replacing a serving, I personally would put it on the stretcher @ 300 lbs and remove any remaining portions of the serving to be replaced, then re-apply serving (still at 300#) remove from the stretcher for maybe 5 minutes to "relax" then fine tune the length at 100 lbs tension and re-install it. 4-5 shots to "settle" the end loops on the posts and the sharp bends in the cam tracks then check timing. Nothing should move/stretch from then on.


exactly


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

michaelgentry87 said:


> So 4 post is about the only way


no, but easiest and fastest way


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> I may get tied to a stake and burned alive for this, but I really haven't found any benefit to leaving a completed string on the stretcher. If the string is under 300 lbs tension when you serve it, that's all she wrote.... it doesn't matter if I take it off the stretcher immediately, or leave it at 300# for a week, it's as "settled" as it's ever going to be.
> 
> So as far as replacing a serving, I personally would put it on the stretcher @ 300 lbs and remove any remaining portions of the serving to be replaced, then re-apply serving (still at 300#) remove from the stretcher for maybe 5 minutes to "relax" then fine tune the length at 100 lbs tension and re-install it. 4-5 shots to "settle" the end loops on the posts and the sharp bends in the cam tracks then check timing. Nothing should move/stretch from then on.


I think he was more wondering about letting the cable shrink back down after it's been stretched and served at 300lbs. It really shouldn't take a whole lot of time because the thread should be settled to it's end point and really shouldn't gain much length while being stretched like you would get that initial stretch while building.


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## skynight

michaelgentry87 said:


> So 4 post is about the only way


No. A 3 post is designed to not only allow served loops, but loops served under tension. I serve then under 200# tension.


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## michaelgentry87

skynight said:


> No. A 3 post is designed to not only allow served loops, but loops served under tension. I serve then under 200# tension.


So how do u do both loops


----------



## skynight

michaelgentry87 said:


> So how do u do both loops


I answered this in post 3273. I serve the first loop, then back serve one tag against the loop serving. I then straighten the swingarm and close the loop with the other tag, going over the first tag I just tied. Both of these back servings are done counter clockwise so that the end serving tightens them when it's put on. The inventor of the little Jon jig recommends untying the tags and swapping ends on the string at this point. I don't do that, as it is cumbersome and difficult to do well. I unhook the loop and put it on a bcy mini stretcher. I take the swingarm to the tensioner end an install it in front of the tensioner. I then use the mini stretcher to apply tension so I can serve that loop while the tags are still tied to the tensioning unit behind the swingarm (where the tags started). I then close the loop in the same way.


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## michaelgentry87

Thank you and I appreciate the explanation and I was at work so much search function didn't work too good


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## michaelgentry87




----------



## michaelgentry87




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## michaelgentry87

Just practicing here


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## caspian

skynight said:


> The inventor of the little Jon jig recommends untying the tags and swapping ends on the string at this point. I don't do that, as it is cumbersome and difficult to do well.


I swap mine around, the painter's tape trick makes it a lot easier to manage. there is a certain learning curve in getting the second set of tag ends tensioned correctly. I don't do tag serving, so a way had to be found.


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## michaelgentry87

Painters tape trick??


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> I think he was more wondering about letting the cable shrink back down after it's been stretched and served at 300lbs. It really shouldn't take a whole lot of time because the thread should be settled to it's end point and really shouldn't gain much length while being stretched like you would get that initial stretch while building.


I just removed the 34" Buss cable from my Xcentric 7 and served a section that will hold my QAD cord in place. I measured an hour later and it was exactly 34" again. You are right it didnt take long at all.


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## skynight

caspian said:


> I swap mine around, the painter's tape trick makes it a lot easier to manage. there is a certain learning curve in getting the second set of tag ends tensioned correctly. I don't do tag serving, so a way had to be found.


If I swap it I use forcep clamps and the tape. Still have to tie the tags with good tension.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

skynight said:


> If I swap it I use forcep clamps and the tape. Still have to tie the tags with good tension.


put all of the tags under the first loop serving and you wont have any problems


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

use the smallest diameter serving you have available. .008 spectra works ok, .007 halo or Dura grip works better in my opinion. or some 10 pound test braided spectra fishing line


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## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> put all of the tags under the first loop serving and you wont have any problems


Works for one color but I'd have to think about how to handle more without getting too fat.


----------



## nestly

skynight said:


> Works for one color but I'd have to think about how to handle more without getting too fat.


I've done it that way for pinstripes (close all 3 loops on one end) and it's no big deal. The "fatness" all happens near the loops, not where the cables lift in/out of the cam tracks when the eccentrics rotate.


----------



## Huntinsker

I could see there being a problem on some cams if you get the end loops too fat but I think it would take several extra strands in the loop to become a real problem. Maybe on some Bowtechs and some of the Mathews single cams, often have a sharp edge on the loop posts, it could be a problem.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

Huntinsker said:


> I could see there being a problem on some cams if you get the end loops too fat but I think it would take several extra strands in the loop to become a real problem. Maybe on some Bowtechs and some of the Mathews single cams, often have a sharp edge on the loop posts, it could be a problem.


depends on the serving material, id dont know why some use the larger diameter materials, like .014 halo and 3d. The micro diameter stuff works really well and even 4 extra strands under the loop doesnt make a huge difference.


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## bowshooter73

This is 26 strands, including the tags, of 452x served with .008. I haven't had problems fitting posts on any bows I've had in my shop, even some of the PSE's that have really small posts.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

bowshooter73 said:


> This is 26 strands, including the tags, of 452x served with .008. I haven't had problems fitting posts on any bows I've had in my shop, even some of the PSE's that have really small posts.


precisely


----------



## skynight

I've got a day off today, think I'll give it a test on a 2 color control cable. Should have 4 tag ends on one loop zero on the other.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

skynight said:


> I've got a day off today, think I'll give it a test on a 2 color control cable. Should have 4 tag ends on one loop zero on the other.


it will work well. just use the smallest diameter serving you have. and at like 4 pounds of tension


----------



## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> it will work well. just use the smallest diameter serving you have. and at like 4 pounds of tension


Actually I'm not at all concerned about the loop serving but rather tying off the tags. I have an idea on minimizing their bulk under the end serving.

Also I usually make 22 strand shooting string, have to think on layout for that.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

do 6 wraps one color and 5 wraps of the other color, then put your separator down through the center the way that the posts separate the bundles


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

i just secure my tags to my tag end post and then clip them off flush when the serving is complete


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## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> i just secure my tags to my tag end post and then clip them off flush when the serving is complete


Huh. Well here is what I tried. I wrapped 12 strands of blue and 12 of silver BCY X. This resulted in a 24 strand cable but 26 strands under the loop serving. Second pic is a jig I made up for placing loop serving in the center of the swingarm. My jig originally came with these but I bought it used so don't have the originals.


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## skynight

I then served the loop serving at 200# of tension. Second pic is how I backserved the tags except one.


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## skynight

When I went to close the loop I realized I should have pulled the gray tag out so it was against the loop serving. I went ahead and used it to close the loop and it worked fine.


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## skynight

First pic shows even strands when no tension applied after closing first loop. You can see one loop transition ended up noticeably larger than the loop with no tags but it is not so large as to be a problem.


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## nestly

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> i just secure my tags to my tag end post and then clip them off flush when the serving is complete


I've tried that, and it didn't take that much force to pull them out from under the servings.


----------



## Earle J's Custom Strings

nestly said:


> I've tried that, and it didn't take that much force to pull them out from under the servings.


i havent had that problem, but normally i twist before stretching, and they dont budge. If i am going to stretch first i do a back wrap with just 2 wraps and pull tight then clip off.


----------



## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> i havent had that problem, but normally i twist before stretching, and they dont budge. If i am going to stretch first i do a back wrap with just 2 wraps and pull tight then clip off.



I stretch before I twist. I have been using 7 wraps on my tags for the back serve. Just a number I pulled out of my rear end. Not sure whats actually needed.


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## skynight

skynight said:


> When I went to close the loop I realized I should have pulled the gray tag out so it was against the loop serving. I went ahead and used it to close the loop and it worked fine.


I have been thinking about this, and I'm going to try something different tomorrow. I don't see any reason to close the loop at all here, and it just makes the bundle larger under the end serving. I think I'll try just backserving the last tag here and closing the loop like I did the other end. On the other end I temporarily tied the loop closed while I laid down the end serving. It might provide a smoother transition the way I did it here. To combat that I'll make one of the last tag backserves longer. See how it works.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

i dont close the loop before serving and yes it does cut down on the bulk of the transition

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## skynight

So I tried a different method of capturing all the tags on one end of a 2 color string. I backserved the tags, leaving the loop open. One tag served longer than others to facilitate the end serving transition. First pic shows tags tied off after loop serving applied (using the other two posts of a 3 post jig). Second pic is loop temporarily closed prior to end serving being placed.


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## skynight

First pic is the two end loops from today. Second pic is a comparison of yesterdays experiment to todays experiment - both of these loops have 4 tags tied off. The loop on the left I closed the loop using one of the tags prior to serving, the other is the one shown above. Third is a pic of how I apply end servings using the beiter twister attachment. 

Leaving all 4 tags on one end certainly makes the 3 post more user friendly. I like it and plan to continue this procedure.


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## nestly

I kinda like what you did in #3318. At what point did you unwrap the temporary serving and snip it?


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## skynight

nestly said:


> I kinda like what you did in #3318. At what point did you unwrap the temporary serving and snip it?


That is just the tag I cut off. I looped it around the tag studs, then wrapped it around the loop to hold it closed and lashed it back too the tag studs. Its in the way for finishing the end serving knot, so I removed it just as I put the end serving tag through the loop to finish the knot. If tied more carefully it could be removed after the end serving knot is finished but in this case it was in the way. You have to tie the loop closed under light tension. Then crank the tension back up for serving.


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## caspian

skynight said:


> If I swap it I use forcep clamps and the tape. Still have to tie the tags with good tension.


yeah, the trick is in learning to pull the tags to the right tension so the strands they control come up to the same tension as the rest of the string.



Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> put all of the tags under the first loop serving and you wont have any problems


that certainly works, but at the same time it results in +4 strands in one end. I leave my tag ends long and serve over them for about 6" of the end serving (serving away from the post). this makes for a really stable string but it would bulk up one end serving quite a bit with 4 tags in there, so I do it the hard way and put a set of tags at each end.


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## Toadthumper

Man what a thread! I have been reading up and decided to start making my own strings. I have a question for you guys. I have been looking at the tag end wrapping method and like the looks of it, can you use that method over serving the loop in every situation? I guess what I am asking is: Is it as strong as serving material? I have a couple of buddies with crossbows (150-175 lbs ) and was wondering if I could serve the loops with the string tag-ends and then serve up to the loops on their strings. They will be on a post in the cams just like a regular bow. Sorry if this is a dumb question but I would like to get your guys opinion before I do anything!


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## gavrone

A few questions:
- when is best to waxburning? Before or after stretching and/or twisting? 
- would be of any advantage to use a hair dryer to heat the bundle before dewaxing?
- what is the clear loop serving material, fishing line? Can nylon fishing line be used?

thanx


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## Huntinsker

Toadthumper said:


> Man what a thread! I have been reading up and decided to start making my own strings. I have a question for you guys. I have been looking at the tag end wrapping method and like the looks of it, can you use that method over serving the loop in every situation? I guess what I am asking is: Is it as strong as serving material? I have a couple of buddies with crossbows (150-175 lbs ) and was wondering if I could serve the loops with the string tag-ends and then serve up to the loops on their strings. They will be on a post in the cams just like a regular bow. Sorry if this is a dumb question but I would like to get your guys opinion before I do anything!


No doing the tag end method is not a good idea in some circumstances. Like if you're making an endless loop recurve string, the end that is taken on and off and slid down the limb would get cut through pretty quickly. In that instance, served loops are definitely better. For crossbows, I think technically the tag ends would work however I've never seen a crossbow string/cable that didn't have served loops. I don't think the tag end method would be a problem though.


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## Huntinsker

gavrone said:


> A few questions:
> - when is best to waxburning? Before or after stretching and/or twisting?
> - would be of any advantage to use a hair dryer to heat the bundle before dewaxing?
> - what is the clear loop serving material, fishing line? Can nylon fishing line be used?
> 
> thanx


I dewax each color before twisting. Just a single pass to remove the excess wax and the I'll twist. Once I have the string up to my stretching tension, that's when I burnish the bundle.

I'm not a fan of using a hairdryer to heat the string for any reason. It's not necessary if you stretch the string well enough and have an even layout tension to begin with. 

The clear serving is any white serving. White materials will turn clear under tension. Most are using Halo or 3d for clear serving.


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## Toadthumper

Ok, thanks Huntinsker! I may give it a shot.


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## dfivdayz

Hey skynight....where and what is that belt you are using on your beiter winder?


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## michaelgentry87

Broke down and gettin another 2 post

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## skynight

dfivdayz said:


> Hey skynight....where and what is that belt you are using on your beiter winder?


I stole it from my wife. It's an oreck vacuum replacement belt.


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## Binary cam man

How to make compound bow strings and cables - you- tube Jun 30 2015. A must watch. I am happy to say , here at AT are the real PRO string makers . And I am very happy to have learned from all of you. THANK YOU.


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## dfivdayz

That's a good one....


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## Purka

Binary cam man said:


> How to make compound bow strings and cables - you- tube Jun 30 2015. A must watch. I am happy to say , here at AT are the real PRO string makers . And I am very happy to have learned from all of you. THANK YOU.


That guy on You Tube seems like a nice guy but his method on how to make a bow string has a lot to be desired.


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## MHoward

After making a lot of strings and cables for my daughters target bow with the help from all you on here, I have turned my attention to trying to make recurve strings. I have made thousands of Flemish string in the past 20 yrs and the endless loop was something to try. I shoot an Olympic recurve and wanted a nice bright string. I have a baker stretcher and a buddy made me a 2 post so I could serve the loops. I was not happy with any of the strings I made do to the transition from the loop serving into the string serving. I have tried a bunch a different methods and can not get away from that sloppy, lumpy bit at the "Y". Disgusted I thought...what the hell....I will do a double tag wrap around the loops and then serve up to close the loop. Flemish have no servings on the loops and appear to hold up well if the limb tips are nice and smooth. I finished the string and put it on my bow, (I have Uuhka limbs and they have quite an unique tip on them and its very round and smooth) and went to the range and shot. Right away the bow felt and sounded better. I put a 100 or so shots through it and then accessed the loops. Nothing wearing or discoloring, I have a nice flat smooth transition.

I will keep tabs on this and see if anything appears. So far I am very pleased with the string and hope it holds up. I know this is not standard procedure, but if the tips are smooth I think it should be okay!


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## michaelgentry87

First try with.009 halo only 10 strands

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## michaelgentry87

Only problem I have is when I swing post and transfer to stretcher, one side has a lot of twist in it, like I don't know if I am doing on end the wrong way or not 

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## Binary cam man

Happy Thanksgiving to all at AT.


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## caspian

michaelgentry87 said:


> Only problem I have is when I swing post and transfer to stretcher, one side has a lot of twist in it, like I don't know if I am doing on end the wrong way or not


you always get some wind-up, it's caused by the twist you put into the string when serving the end loops - when you close swing the posts closed, both sides of the string are twisted in opposing directions. you can take some of this out by giving the end loop a good twist back to get the strands as close to parallel as possible before swinging the posts closed, but you always end up with some twist that you need to chase out. back the tension off, put an arrow or a pencil between the two bundles from the other end of the jig and slide it down to the end you are working on to separate, and be prepared to spend a little time teasing everything straight.

I normally don't bother about the last couple of twists as long as everything is tensioned the same, but then again I don't use clear serving.


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## michaelgentry87

Thanks, I figured it out, then I got a horrible case of bumps, only after I did my end servings, it's my girlfriends string and she wanted to help...I think she over burnished 

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## michaelgentry87

I need some bungee to help with strand tension on my four poster as well unless anyone has another iders

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## automan26

michaelgentry87 said:


> Thanks, I figured it out, then I got a horrible case of bumps, only after I did my end servings, it's my girlfriends string and she wanted to help...I think she over burnished
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


The B in Bump stands for Burnishing too hard.

Automan


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## michaelgentry87

Lol. What is the best way to keep strand tension on a four post jig

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## skynight

caspian said:


> you always get some wind-up, it's caused by the twist you put into the string when serving the end loops - when you close swing the posts closed, both sides of the string are twisted in opposing directions. you can take some of this out by giving the end loop a good twist back to get the strands as close to parallel as possible before swinging the posts closed, but you always end up with some twist that you need to chase out. back the tension off, put an arrow or a pencil between the two bundles from the other end of the jig and slide it down to the end you are working on to separate, and be prepared to spend a little time teasing everything straight.
> 
> I normally don't bother about the last couple of twists as long as everything is tensioned the same, but then again I don't use clear serving.


This helps when I remember to do it before serving the loops.


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## michaelgentry87

Any one have a pic of the bungee cord idea. For keeping tension 

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## bowshooter73

Not sure how to link a vid, but check Baker Archery Product Facebook page. He suggested using you tensioning head and a bow string. Put the loops over the posts and the tension head pulling in the middle. Wouldn't put much tension on it, the post might not hold up.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

I have had no problem with strand tension. Just take your time and pay attention. I lay out on the tight side on my 4 post which keeps the twisting under the loop serving to a minimum, also only serve the end loop at 3-4 pounds tension on the serving tool. Then twist before stretching. If you are using a low wax material then normally there is no need to dewax, but if you must de wax then do so after you have served the loops, right before you twist. Then dont dewax or burnish again until you are ready to serve


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## michaelgentry87

Bowshooter73 that lil video. That idea works great looks like it adds about a 1/16. Also only burnished string after twisting looks awesome


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## bowshooter73

If it adds length, your putting to much pressure on it. The purpose is to just pull it taught and even out your strands.


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## michaelgentry87

Only went to 80 so I'm not sure I'll experiment with less, that's what his video reccommended 

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## bowshooter73

It going to depend on how your tying off you tag ends and layout tension. If your pulling your layout longer then you wanted, your tag ends might to be secured different. I don't put any tension when I do 4 post lay out, I just just tighten up my first bundle before I serve. I run my finger down my layout. If I have a loose stran, I can feel it.


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## Purka

michaelgentry87 said:


> First try with.009 halo only 10 strands
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


How do you start and finish off there serving? looks a bit different to the norm.


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## michaelgentry87

Start by taking tag on one end and spooling over it about 30 times continue and what I started doing now is to lay down a piece of .014 looped and serve over it last quarter inch, then fish that tag through the loop. Looks better, 
Then back wrap tags against serving 

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## michaelgentry87

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## michaelgentry87

I really don't like to back wrap the string tags, seems when serving jig hits it it wads up

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## michaelgentry87

Purka said:


> How do you start and finish off there serving? looks a bit different to the norm.


https://youtu.be/wTkxsqSBc9c

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## skynight

michaelgentry87 said:


> https://youtu.be/wTkxsqSBc9c
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Thought you were in your boxers there for a minute.


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## Bownut400

Looks good Michael. Thanks for the video.


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## Huntinsker

MHoward said:


> After making a lot of strings and cables for my daughters target bow with the help from all you on here, I have turned my attention to trying to make recurve strings. I have made thousands of Flemish string in the past 20 yrs and the endless loop was something to try. I shoot an Olympic recurve and wanted a nice bright string. I have a baker stretcher and a buddy made me a 2 post so I could serve the loops. I was not happy with any of the strings I made do to the transition from the loop serving into the string serving. I have tried a bunch a different methods and can not get away from that sloppy, lumpy bit at the "Y". Disgusted I thought...what the hell....I will do a double tag wrap around the loops and then serve up to close the loop. Flemish have no servings on the loops and appear to hold up well if the limb tips are nice and smooth. I finished the string and put it on my bow, (I have Uuhka limbs and they have quite an unique tip on them and its very round and smooth) and went to the range and shot. Right away the bow felt and sounded better. I put a 100 or so shots through it and then accessed the loops. Nothing wearing or discoloring, I have a nice flat smooth transition.
> 
> I will keep tabs on this and see if anything appears. So far I am very pleased with the string and hope it holds up. I know this is not standard procedure, but if the tips are smooth I think it should be okay!


Interesting. I've been making and using Flemish twist strings on my trad bows but wanted to try an endless loop. I don't yet have a 3 or 4 post set up to serve the loops and I wondered how a double thick wrap of tag ends would hold up. Your post just might convince me to try it. I like the quiet shot that Flemish twist strings give me but I always wanted to see if I could squeeze out some more performance with an endless loop.


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## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> This helps when I remember to do it before serving the loops.


I like that nail trick to keep them from twisting down the length of the bundle. I'll have to remember that when I build my 4 post jig.


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## Purka

Thanks for the video, I see it now you back wrap the tag ends on either side of the serving.


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## MHoward

Huntinsker said:


> Interesting. I've been making and using Flemish twist strings on my trad bows but wanted to try an endless loop. I don't yet have a 3 or 4 post set up to serve the loops and I wondered how a double thick wrap of tag ends would hold up. Your post just might convince me to try it. I like the quiet shot that Flemish twist strings give me but I always wanted to see if I could squeeze out some more performance with an endless loop.


It is SWEET! I put almost 300 shots through it, shot a tournament with it and the loops look the same as the day I made it. Super quite and finally not lumpy off centered transitions! Give it a shot bro!


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## MHoward




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## tenzing

has anyone had loop serving coming loose? I have been using spyderwire and i have this problem.Too much wax?


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## tenzing

Spyderwire. Sorry don't know how to rotate the pic


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## B.Hunter

tenzing, what Spiderwire are u using (standard braid, Stealth,)? What poundage is it rated?


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## tenzing

B.Hunter said:


> tenzing, what Spiderwire are u using (standard braid, Stealth,)? What poundage is it rated?


Spyderwire invisibraid #20


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

The invisibraid is very durable but it is pretty slick. I used to use it for a few things but found to get it to stick and stay put reliably it had to be served way too tight.

If you dont want to buy regular loop servign material, try the berkley power pro 10 pound, it is .006 diameter and grips much better than the spider wire.


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## tenzing

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> The invisibraid is very durable but it is pretty slick. I used to use it for a few things but found to get it to stick and stay put reliably it had to be served way too tight.
> 
> If you dont want to buy regular loop servign material, try the berkley power pro 10 pound, it is .006 diameter and grips much better than the spider wire.


Yes I found the spyderwire too slick which could be the reason for not gripping well. Will try the Berkley power pro. Is it transparent like invisibraid?


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## michaelgentry87

Question how do yall finish yall serving tag ends so they don't look real bad I have been burning mine

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

michaelgentry87 said:


> Question how do yall finish yall serving tag ends so they don't look real bad I have been burning mine
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


the tag end by the loop i cut flush because it is held by several inches of serving. On the end where i finish my servingi pull tight cut with a little bit left over, like 1/8-1/4 and burn down and wipe while its still hoyt so you dont have a bulge there, but it will still flatten enough to keep it from ever coming untied.


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## michaelgentry87

Cool thanks it like min were bulged not terrible looking but I knew....

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## automan26

Here's the wonderful thing about building your own threads. I wanted to make a set of Minnesota Vikings colored strings so I made a test string, liked it and built a set. The threads looked great until I put them on the bow and the colors basically sucked once the strings were installed. Had I dropped $100 on a set of strings ordered from a dealer I would have thought that I had tossed good money to the wind, but what the heck, now I have an excuse to alter the color pattern and make something I really like and I am only out a few bucks. That is what custom string building is all about

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Here's the wonderful thing about building your own threads. I wanted to make a set of Minnesota Vikings colored strings so I made a test string, liked it and built a set. The threads looked great until I put them on the bow and the colors basically sucked once the strings were installed. Had I dropped $100 on a set of strings ordered from a dealer I would have thought that I had tossed good money to the wind, but what the heck, now I have an excuse to alter the color pattern and make something I really like and I am only out a few bucks. That is what custom string building is all about
> 
> Automan


The string looks great under that clear serving!! I bet that would look good on an all black bow. Camo may be a different story but if you had a blacked out bow with maybe some colored accessories, it'd look good.........if you're a Vikings fan that is.


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> The string looks great under that clear serving!! I bet that would look good on an all black bow. Camo may be a different story but if you had a blacked out bow with maybe some colored accessories, it'd look good.........if you're a Vikings fan that is.


I think you are correct about the black bow. I have it on a camo bow and it just looks wrong. The purple took over and overshadowed the gray and it really didn't work like expected. On the bright side, I have Christmas vacation coming up and I will be looking for a project--guess what I'll be doing?

Automan


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## bowshooter73

Reverse the yellow and grey. That should give it a bit more separation and still have all the team colors.


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## automan26

bowshooter73 said:


> Reverse the yellow and grey. That should give it a bit more separation and still have all the team colors.


That's something worth considering. 

I tried white where the grey is, but it did not contrast well with the yellow.

Automan


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## nestly

bowshooter73 said:


> Reverse the yellow and grey. That should give it a bit more separation and still have all the team colors.


If the pin doesn't have a high contrast with the two primary colors, sometimes it's better to just go with two colors because the pin ends up "blending" the two colors together and the string will have less "pop" than just putting the two colors against each other.


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## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> do 6 wraps one color and 5 wraps of the other color, then put your separator down through the center the way that the posts separate the bundles


Earle, you posted this when I asked how to layout a 2 color string with 22 strands, leaving all the tags on the same end. I am planning to give it a try and have a few questions. When you say separator, are you referring to the peep locator? When twisting I use separators to keep the colors separate so wondering if that is what you refer to here. Basically I'm looking for your idea on peep location marking and color separation when twisting.
Thanks.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Yeah i was talking about the separator for the peep, that way there would be 11 strands on either side of the peep. Separate your colors to twist as you normally would


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

i always put my peep marker 3-3.5 inches above where the center serving will be


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## skynight

Thanks for the quick response, let you know how it works out.


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## michaelgentry87

So I was asked to make a crossbow string, compound ross bow 
I was wondering if the stretching process was any different from normal and I was gonna use angel majesty center serving and either fury or d97 and halo end material....any ideas???

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## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> So I was asked to make a crossbow string, compound ross bow
> I was wondering if the stretching process was any different from normal and I was gonna use angel majesty center serving and either fury or d97 and halo end material....any ideas???
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


What model of bow?


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## michaelgentry87

Barnett ghost 410, string and 2 yokes , I can't find much on it trying to find serving specs

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

skynight said:


> Thanks for the quick response, let you know how it works out.


so......

How did you make out?


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## SamT

The string stretch and building process is the same as any other string/cable.

I don't know what's used on the Ghost 410, but this is what I use on my SZ350 that may give you some idea:

string and cables - 24 strand of 452x
end loops and closures - .015 Angel Majesty, .014 Halo, or SpyderWire Ultracast Invisibraid 40lb .014
cable cross serving - .007 Halo, .008 Spectra, or .006 Cabelas RipCord
center serving - .026 Angel Majesty

Some crossbows use/need a thicker center serving like .036 Angel Majesty.

Always best to contact Mfr for the string build make-up so that the claws/string combo functions properly.


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## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> Barnett ghost 410, string and 2 yokes , I can't find much on it trying to find serving specs
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


String: 38.875"......28 strands of D97.......end/loop serving is BCY 3D........ I think the center is .030 Crossbow serving (could use .030 halo or powergrip too). It may be larger but as long as the final center serving diameter is very close to .1575", you should be good to go. May even be able to double serve if you had to.
Cable: 21.5"........28 strands of D97.........end/loop serving is BCY 3D........finished end serving diameter should be around .1435" (same for the string end serving).

12" string end serving and the center should be 3" on either side of center.

Cable end serving should be 9.5" and the yoke legs are about 6" long. Do 3/4" end loops (cable and string) and 1 1/8" loops on the yoke legs. When you make the yoke legs, make a 14-15", 28 strand string, then you'll put it through the unfinished end of the cable and then you need to serve about 1.5" of the yoke legs to make a "solid floating" yoke. Kind of a pain but that's how they do it. That means when you make the cable body, you need to take 14-15", divide by 2 and then subtract that off the finished length. Make the cable body and then when you bend the "yoke leg string" in half, that will make up the rest of the length.


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## michaelgentry87

[quote name="michaelgentry87" post=1082696593]Barnett ghost 410, string and 2 yokes , I can't find much on it trying to find serving specs<br />
<br />
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]<br />
<br />
String: 38.875"......28 strands of D97.......end/loop serving is BCY 3D........ I think the center is .030 Crossbow serving (could use .030 halo or powergrip too). It may be larger but as long as the final center serving diameter is very close to .1575", you should be good to go. May even be able to double serve if you had to.<br />
Cable: 21.5"........28 strands of D97.........end/loop serving is BCY 3D........finished end serving diameter should be around .1435" (same for the string end serving).<br />
<br />
12" string end serving and the center should be 3" on either side of center.<br />
<br />
Cable end serving should be 9.5" and the yoke legs are about 6" long. Do 3/4" end loops (cable and string) and 1 1/8" loops on the yoke legs. When you make the yoke legs, make a 14-15", 28 strand string, then you'll put it through the unfinished end of the cable and then you need to serve about 1.5" of the yoke legs to make a "solid floating" yoke. Kind of a pain but that's how they do it. That means when you make the cable body, you need to take 14-15", divide by 2 and then subtract that off the finished length. Make the cable body and then when you bend the "yoke leg string" in half, that will make up the rest of the length. Thanks your a life saver is the stretching times the same

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## Huntinsker

You'll be using about twice the number of strands of d97 as a regular string so if it were me, I'd stretch for a little longer than normal. They are pretty short threads though and because they are so over built, they won't stretch all that much to begin with. Just make sure you do long enough to equalize the tension on each strand.


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## michaelgentry87

I screwed that up but, any ways is the stretching process the same

And thanks your a lifesaver

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## schdp

Been a month since I did my first set, still shooting strong! I recently did the smaller cam cables and was trying to get that clear look. Used BCY halo white .014 and then BYC .007 serving, instead of clear I got a semi silver color and you couldn't make out the blue/white that I had underneath. 

Before I do my next set of strings I would like to be able to do the clear serving, any suggestions for the process work? I did everything the same except had the tension slightly higher then normal.

Thanks!


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## bowshooter73

If you 14 isn't come out clear, your either not serving with enough tension on your serving tool or there is too much wax in your string. As the wax squeezed it'll change the color of you serving and basically smear it around the string under the serving.


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## schdp

Thanks, I will make up another and keep a closer eye on the wax... Does it go clear instantly or does it take it some time? The Halo was only on for 10-15 minutes before I removed it and tried the other.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

schdp said:


> Thanks, I will make up another and keep a closer eye on the wax... Does it go clear instantly or does it take it some time? The Halo was only on for 10-15 minutes before I removed it and tried the other.


well it should be apparant rith away that it is clear, but will go clearer anfter a few minutes. Especially if you use a clarifier of some sort.

after you burnish lightly to set the bundle together, take a piece of cotton terry cloth and wipe the string off well. that will remove some excess wax that the burnishing thread wont.

serve the .014 halo a little below its breaking point (as tight as you can while reliably not breaking the thread) this is easier when the serving material is spooled tightly.

after serving spray some wd-40 on your fingers and rub onto the serving, use enough to coat the serving although saturation is overkill. allow it to sit for a couple minutes and then wipe it off with a smooth cotton rag.

If you had a problem with .007 halo going clear you were not serving with nearly enough tension


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

you can also use a string cleaner too remove wax before serving but be sure to dry the string before you serve


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## nestly

schdp said:


> Thanks, I will make up another and keep a closer eye on the wax... Does it go clear instantly or does it take it some time? The Halo was only on for 10-15 minutes before I removed it and tried the other.


It will turn clear as soon as it's tight. Cut a piece of .014 halo about 2 feet long, and loosely wrap it around a colored string 8 or 10 times. It will be pure white, now pull the ends tight so the Halo serving constricts around the string and it will go clear/semi-transparent. Release the tension and it will be "white" again.


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## schdp

Thanks all, I will give it another go this weekend!


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## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> so......
> 
> How did you make out?


It gave me about 90deg rotation on the jig after stretch and twist. I did not serve it. Ended up making a 24 strand string that had zero rotation on the jig and the bow. I did leave the tags all at one end. Had to reduce center serving size from .021 to .017 since two more strands of bcy X.


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## 2X_LUNG

Let's see your loops everyone!!










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## michaelgentry87

Nice loops lung









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## michaelgentry87

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## 2X_LUNG

Awesome!! Keep it up michael

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## michaelgentry87

Ty

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## automan26

2X_LUNG said:


> Let's see your loops everyone!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Those are some sweet loops. That end serving looks as perfect as it could possibly be . I have yet to see aftermarket strings that come anywhere close to that.


Automan


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## 2X_LUNG

Thanks automan!! I try my best

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## 2X_LUNG

I wanted to post this combo. I built it for a monster bow. Not a Mathews, a monster. Looks like an Oneida. Matched so sweetly
















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## michaelgentry87

I need clarifyer !!! How do u put it on

This is under 8+ lbs of tension

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










That last one is a tag end loop


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

couple of my favorite combos


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## 2X_LUNG

Awesome!!!!!!!

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## 2X_LUNG

michaelgentry87 said:


> I need clarifyer !!! How do u put it on
> 
> This is under 8+ lbs of tension
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


More tension









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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Yep more tension


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## skynight

michaelgentry87 said:


> I need clarifyer !!! How do u put it on
> 
> This is under 8+ lbs of tension
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Try it with a bright string color.


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## michaelgentry87

I had it cranked all the way on the second go around like breaking I think it was the wax in the silver idk

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## 2X_LUNG

Dark colors and clear just don't do good. Like skynight said, try bright colors. 

Also, try a dab of wd-40 as clarifier

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

skynight said:


> It gave me about 90deg rotation on the jig after stretch and twist. I did not serve it. Ended up making a 24 strand string that had zero rotation on the jig and the bow. I did leave the tags all at one end. Had to reduce center serving size from .021 to .017 since two more strands of bcy X.


No sense in throwing that out. Stretch it some more and serve from th eloops toward the center o the string. Then when served check for rotation, if it has rotation add half twist to bottom loop till there is none, or very little. It will never rotate again


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

But I have noticed with plenty of materials that strand count definitely makes a difference. 

also what size nocks are you using? I have always ran 24 strands of X material and .021 center serving with pretty good results


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## skynight

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> But I have noticed with plenty of materials that strand count definitely makes a difference.
> 
> also what size nocks are you using? I have always ran 24 strands of X material and .021 center serving with pretty good results


I run the tag all the way through the center serving. I'm using Bohning pin nocks and Easton deep six g nocks. The .017 is too fat for the Easton nocks but good for the Bohning.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

AH i see


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## Huntinsker

Yep, like everyone else said, if you're going to do clear serving, you get better results with bright colors underneath. Black works okay too if you have a bright contrasting color. This is one of the first strings I did with clear serving. It was also over blue/silver and these are the results.


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## michaelgentry87

Ehh ima roll with it for my other darton. Lol

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## michaelgentry87

On another note 2nd time I have had to throw away a darton control cable, one end loop is 1.5" I keep forgetting 

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## bowshooter73

Who's got the best price on fury? I gonna have try a little spool before I switch to X from 452x.


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## michaelgentry87

Ray knight I believe pm him

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## bowshooter73

Will do. Thx.


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## schdp

Huntinsker, that is how mine turned out that first time as well


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Have any of you guys used Rhino material? If not i definitely recommend trying it. Looks just as good as Fury finished, and it is incredibly strong. Very soft shot feel and still good speed.

I love the stuff, Just figured i would see who else uses it here


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## michaelgentry87

How is the brownell serving material 

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## 2X_LUNG

I'm a brownell fury dealer

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## 2X_LUNG

I'm addicted to served loops now. Haha








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## lunghit

Those look great. Thinking about giving served loops a try but tag ends have been working great for me.


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## 2X_LUNG

Yes, I have a special place in my heart for tag ends. I can whip out a set in no time. Ha

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## michaelgentry87

Best way I have found to keep tension up is to lay out both colors and then pull tags until they feel relatively the same orake the same sound

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## michaelgentry87

Woops wrong thread lol

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

michaelgentry87 said:


> How is the brownell serving material
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Its pretty good. Just as good quality as the BCY stuff. And Bullwhip is cheaper than Halo when purchased by the 1/4 pound or more. I also really like the mini serving, it is twisted very tightly. More so than 2x, but i have noticed that the white needs a bit more tension to go crystal clear than 2x.

RCT is a great center serving material thats about the extent of my experience with brownell serving materials. I buy my stuff in bulk these days so i buy brownell serving materials because its cheaper than BCY in bulk, but still very high quality


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## caspian

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> View attachment 3385738


that's about as pretty a loop as anyone could ever hope to emulate. awesome work. :thumbs_up


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## automan26

bowshooter73 said:


> Reverse the yellow and grey. That should give it a bit more separation and still have all the team colors.


I took your advice and reversed the yellow and gray and it made a big difference. I like this combination better than the pic under it..
The top pic is the new combination and the bottom pic is the old yucky combination.








Automan


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

bowshooter73 said:


> Who's got the best price on fury? I gonna have try a little spool before I switch to X from 452x.


as well as Fury i strongly suggest Trying BCY 8190F, and Brownell Rhino as well, these are my 2 favorite materials. I see a lot of guys have never used Rhino but it is a top shelf material. Excellent for crossbows, and really nice for compounds. 8190F is very much like Fury with similar properties, also a top shelf material


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

caspian said:


> that's about as pretty a loop as anyone could ever hope to emulate. awesome work. :thumbs_up


Thanks Caspian! 
I have found that the best looking end loops and transitions are made when serving towards the center of the string or cable. The transition takes more time to do but looks good and is less likely to work loose. also it helps that the Dura grip serving material from brownell makes very nice transitions


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## bowshooter73

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> as well as Fury i strongly suggest Trying BCY 8190F, and Brownell Rhino as well, these are my 2 favorite materials. I see a lot of guys have never used Rhino but it is a top shelf material. Excellent for crossbows, and really nice for compounds. 8190F is very much like Fury with similar properties, also a top shelf material


LOL. That's all I need to add to my decision making, another material.


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## nestly

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> ..... More so than 2x, but i have noticed that the white needs a bit more tension to go crystal clear than 2x.


Am I reading right that any of the "white" servings will turn clear under enough tension? I thought that was only Halo, which I don't care for much. 



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## Earle J's Custom Strings

nestly said:


> Am I reading right that any of the "white" servings will turn clear under enough tension? I thought that was only Halo, which I don't care for much.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


Yes in fact the twisted servings tend to go clearer than Halo.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

hey everyone,
Having a little trouble locating some info on a 2008 limbsaver DZ 32 with large cam.
Acording to the tune charts from Limbsaver there are only 6 draw length modules available, designations ending in 6BR/6TR respectively. The particular bow in question reads 7TR/7BR,
This customer has recently purchased a string from another builder and his draw is only measuring 27 inches, and since i can not find the info for a seventh draw module i am stumped.as to the proper string and cable length. any help would be appreciated, if you guys happen to know anything about a special edition DZ 32 with a different cam or module position
by the way the 7TR/BR is the only designation any where on either cam and there is no limb sticker


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## michaelgentry87

Hmmm i recently had a gentleman contact me about one...contacted bill barnhart at limbsaver it is a draw specific mod , sting lengths won't change 

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## michaelgentry87

According to bill the dl of that bow was at 31 inches with the 7 

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## nestly

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> Yes in fact the twisted servings tend to go clearer than Halo.


Dang....I've done some clear servings with halo but I try to avoid because I like 2x much better....guess I need to place an order for white 2x

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## skynight

nestly said:


> Dang....I've done some clear servings with halo but I try to avoid because I like 2x much better....guess I need to place an order for white 2x
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


What do you dislike about halo/like about 2x?


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## nestly

skynight said:


> What do you dislike about halo/like about 2x?


1) Thickness: .014 Halo on 24 strands of 452X is .109" diameter, compared to .100" for 2x

2) Break Strength: If I try to serve .014 Halo at the same tension I use for 2X, it breaks about 50% of the time.

3) Because it's braided, Halo remains "rounder" than twisted servings which "flatten" out more. This is why you actually end up with a significantly larger finished diameter with .014 Halo than .015 2x. Twisted servings are "smoother" than braided servings because they "flatten" out more.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

nestly said:


> 1) Thickness: .014 Halo on 24 strands of 452X is .109" diameter, compared to .100" for 2x
> 
> 2) Break Strength: If I try to serve .014 Halo at the same tension I use for 2X, it breaks about 50% of the time.
> 
> 3) Because it's braided, Halo remains "rounder" than twisted servings which "flatten" out more. This is why you actually end up with a significantly larger finished diameter with .014 Halo than .015 2x. Twisted servings are "smoother" than braided servings because they "flatten" out more.


Bullwhip does flatten a bit more than halo, you should try it


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

michaelgentry87 said:


> According to bill the dl of that bow was at 31 inches with the 7
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Thanks alot. The string and cables my customer has are waaaay off on length, but i got to find him some different cams because he is a 29 inch draw


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## Kaveman44

where do you guys buy your string and serving material? and what materials would you say work best? thanks jimmy


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

I buy directly from Brownell and BCY.

I prefer non blended materials. My favorites being Rhino and 8190F. My favorite serving materials for string ends are 3d and mini, for cable ends i like .014 power grip, and bullwhip or halo. For center serving i prefer angel majesty, power grip and RCT


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## skynight

What is required to buy direct from bcy or Brownell? Have to be a dealer?


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## RatherBArchery

*NEW stretcher*

Built this string stretcher Saturday and boy does it save time over my last build!! Actually fun to build strings again. This has an acme rod in it, over standard all thread which I felt took forever to tighten. I had a longer spring on the old one too which didn't help. I need a heavier spring in the new one but this one works for now!!
OH, the Allen screw on top keeps the unit from rotating until I want to add twists. I back out the screw 2-3 turns and rotate to twist the string.


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## RatherBArchery

*stretcher/layout rail*

Thinking of building this stretcher/layout assembly to further cut down time building strings. Anyone else have something similar they care to share pictures of???? The brackets would mount under my archery bench and support the piggy backed 1.625" unistrut and lock it in position with two tee bolts. Once a string is on the stretcher I simply flip the unit and I can lay out another string.....thoughts???


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## 2X_LUNG

Neat blue n black string here!








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## Kaveman44

2x lung , did you serve your loop ends with clear serving, i just ordered my string making equipment, so im a new to this ,but excited 

thanks JIMMY


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## RatherBArchery

Was also looking at building a serving machine and thought there was a DIY unit in here but can not find it?? Can anyone help locate it/them?? Looking for a unit that spins the string...


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## Kaveman44

hey guys whats a good serving tool


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> 2x lung , did you serve your loop ends with clear serving, i just ordered my string making equipment, so im a new to this ,but excited
> 
> thanks JIMMY





Kaveman44 said:


> hey guys whats a good serving tool


Clear serving is actually white serving. When under tension it turns clear. 

The best serving bobbin on the market is the Beiter Winder. Get one and don't waste time and money on the others.


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## tenzing

2X_LUNG said:


> Neat blue n black string here!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Which clear serving is it for the loop?


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## automan26

RatherBArchery said:


> Thinking of building this stretcher/layout assembly to further cut down time building strings. Anyone else have something similar they care to share pictures of???? The brackets would mount under my archery bench and support the piggy backed 1.625" unistrut and lock it in position with two tee bolts. Once a string is on the stretcher I simply flip the unit and I can lay out another string.....thoughts???


I think your idea for a double unit is a good one. I had thought of building something similar, but I do all my building in my house and there simply isn't storage room. A double unit will reduce your build time more than you realize.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

RatherBArchery said:


> Was also looking at building a serving machine and thought there was a DIY unit in here but can not find it?? Can anyone help locate it/them?? Looking for a unit that spins the string...


Look on page 119, post 2953.


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## RatherBArchery

That's the one, THANKS Hunt


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## Huntinsker

RatherBArchery said:


> Thinking of building this stretcher/layout assembly to further cut down time building strings. Anyone else have something similar they care to share pictures of???? The brackets would mount under my archery bench and support the piggy backed 1.625" unistrut and lock it in position with two tee bolts. Once a string is on the stretcher I simply flip the unit and I can lay out another string.....thoughts???


I thought about doing something like this one day but with a 3 piece apparatus. I imagined that it would be mounted to supports on a garage wall and then would be able to fold up and down out of the way. 3 full length struts mounted to a central piece that would rotate on an axle at each end. Pull a pin, rotate to the next jig and put the pin back to lock it in place. I'm sure it looks better in my head than what I've described haha.


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## nestly

RatherBArchery;108299163 4 said:


> Thinking of building this stretcher/layout assembly to further cut down time building strings. Anyone else have something similar they care to share pictures of???? The brackets would mount under my archery bench and support the piggy backed 1.625" unistrut and lock it in position with two tee bolts. Once a string is on the stretcher I simply flip the unit and I can lay out another string.....thoughts???


Mine is a free-standing unit with a pivot and a spring loaded locking pin (just a 3point hitch pin from Tractor Supply) I generally build the first string and then move it down to the stretcher which is "hanging" underneath and then continue building with laying up a 2nd string. After the 2nd one is layed up, I flip the stretcher/power server to the top and finish the first string, then move the 2nd string from the jig side (now hanging on the bottom side) up to the stretcher/server and finish that one.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Mine is a free-standing unit with a pivot and a spring loaded locking pin (just a 3point hitch pin from Tractor Supply) I generally build the first string and then move it down to the stretcher which is "hanging" underneath and then continue building with laying up a 2nd string. After the 2nd one is layed up, I flip the stretcher/power server to the top and finish the first string, then move the 2nd string from the jig side (now hanging on the bottom side) up to the stretcher/server and finish that one.


I like your design! I imagined something very similar but with a 3 track setup that would be anchored on the wall and be able to be moved up out of the way to save some space.


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> I like your design! I imagined something very similar but with a 3 track setup that would be anchored on the wall and be able to be moved up out of the way to save some space.


A jig, a stretcher, and a stretcher/twister combo on a 3 position pivot... that would be sweet!

I'm in the habit of walking around to the other side when doing endloop/tag end serving, so that's why I went free standing. I have considered putting it on hanging swing arms so it can be stored tight against the ceiling when not in use.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> A jig, a stretcher, and a stretcher/twister combo on a 3 position pivot... that would be sweet!
> 
> I'm in the habit of walking around to the other side when doing endloop/tag end serving, so that's why I went free standing. I have considered putting it on hanging swing arms so it can be stored tight against the ceiling when not in use.


I like to walk to the other side to serve towards the posts so I can go the same direction each time. I'm more consistent that way. I was trying to come up with a way to have the support arms in the middle of the strut so you could walk around the ends but I haven't come up with any viable ways to make that happen.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

skynight said:


> What is required to buy direct from bcy or Brownell? Have to be a dealer?


Yes you have to be a dealer. 

I would be happy to give you more information or get you the materials you need. Send me a PM and i will get you the info you need.


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## fletched

nestly said:


> Here ya go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ack! .... Stupid Sony and their proprietary .MTS video format, I don't know how to convert the video to something Youtube will process without loosing a lot of frames per seconds.


Nice serving machine. I built one several years back and it has some similarities to your. Mine runs on two rails. Here are some pics.


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## fletched

Some more pics. Mine runs from a drill and I use a variable router speed controller. I have tapered bearings in the head to handle the side thrust of 300+ pounds. It runs and works great. It is built like a tank. I use a worm drive wench and a 440 pound scale. My floating head has bearings that go underneath the rail so when pulling it back with the wench, it does no bind up.


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## Kaveman44

is there a decent serving jig thats not as expensive as the Beiter Winder. , there are some on eBay that cost $15 called CARTEL serving jigs, I'm spending a lot of money on the stretcher and 2 post setup assembly, i want a serving jig thats nice for now and will send more on one after christmas, just want a nice tight serving, any suggestions


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## michaelgentry87

Bieters are worth thier wieght

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## Kaveman44

just a question but since I'm new, why are they so much better ? want to know as much as possible, and can i just own 1 and switch spools


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> just a question but since I'm new, why are they so much better ? want to know as much as possible, and can i just own 1 and switch spools


They hold the most consistent tension and have the smoothest feed on the market. If you're wanting to build quality strings, you need quality tools and materials. I started building with the cheap red BCY jig and while it worked, kind of, as soon as I got my Beiter, my end servings got smoother, tighter and more consistent. I was able to serve more tightly without the serving binding up and because there was more consistent tension on my serving, I didn't have to stop and adjust the tension when making long runs. I also found that my shoot in time decreased because my strings were more consistent.


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## skynight

Kaveman44 said:


> just a question but since I'm new, why are they so much better ? want to know as much as possible, and can i just own 1 and switch spools


Because you can do this with a $7 beiter twister attachment.


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## Bownut400

Hi Guys, I am in the Christmas spirit and am willing to share my post setting spread sheet with who ever emails me at [email protected]
I have been watching all the people willing to help others get started. If your needing a post setting spread sheet email me.
Merry Christmas archers


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## Kaveman44

when i look at Lancaster they have 2 ones to choose from, a heavy and a profi, is there a better model? thanks guys

p.s Butch for selling me a stretcher setup and a 2 post assembly, can't wait to start making strings


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## bowshooter73

The heavy works better if your serving by hand, little faster to spin. The Profi has lighter weight knobs. If your using an NW Spinner, either one works great.


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## Huntinsker

I got the Profi because I use a spinner and I don't need the extra weight. If you're serving entirely by hand, which I don't recommend because it takes FOREVER when building strings, then get the heavy.


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## Kaveman44

ok , i will start off by hand but im sure i will end up getting a spiner so i will not go with the heavy, thanks guys


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## nestly

fletched said:


> Some more pics. Mine runs from a drill and I use a variable router speed controller. I have tapered bearings in the head to handle the side thrust of 300+ pounds. It runs and works great. It is built like a tank. I use a worm drive wench and a 440 pound scale. My floating head has bearings that go underneath the rail so when pulling it back with the wench, it does no bind up.


Very nice! I contemplated using bearings on the rails but didn't come up with a practical solution when using back-to-back strut. I do have 4 tapered roller bearings to replace the bronze bushing and thrust bearings, but haven't got around to that yet either.


----------



## fletched

nestly said:


> Very nice! I contemplated using bearings on the rails but didn't come up with a practical solution when using back-to-back strut. I do have 4 tapered roller bearings to replace the bronze bushing and thrust bearings, but haven't got around to that yet either.


The tapered bearing works great. Only problem with tapered bearings is that they are not sealed. One could design the system to use seals but I didn't have the means to do so. I use a big diameter washer to protect the bearing and once in a while, I just spray some lithium grease on them. I haven't had any issues with grease getting out and making a mess so I just kept it that way.


----------



## automan26

Here is a trick I have been using for awhile that has really improved the quality of my strings and has also reduced my string break-in time to only a few shots. Before I start serving I anchor the sting with a string clamp then make a series of dots along the top of the string in the area I plan to serve. As I serve, the dots are a great aid to letting me see just what is going on with the string as the serving tool is winding around the string. My goal is to keep all the dots in a straight line as I move along the string. They may flex around a bit, but if I back off the server and allow the string to spring back, the dots should come back to the top if the string is not twisting. Since starting this procedure I have literally zero break-in time. It does take about 2-3 shots to get the string and cables to sit down in the cam grooves, but after that the peep does not move again--EVER.

On a side note---I really like the looks of a triple pinstripe. I think this is how I am going to be building strings from now on. I determine what I want for primary colors and build one of the colors with more strands. Next I make a pinstripe out of the other primary color and split it with a third bundle of another color. I think it looks sweet. The string in the pic is---20 purple--4 yellow--4 gray.

Automan


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## Kaveman44

where can i find out how to tag ends, i have watched enough to do served ends but I'm a little confused about tag ends, is one better of just preference ?


----------



## Kaveman44

skynight said:


> Because you can do this with a $7 beiter twister attachment.



where can i buy this attachment


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> where can i buy this attachment


Google is your friend. http://www.lancasterarchery.com/beiter-winder-twister-attachment.html

For the tag ends, the pictures at the beginning of the thread show you how to wrap them. It's really that easy. Cross them behind the post and the put them down through the middle of the bundle and pull them back. Repeat the process over and over until you've wrapped enough to make a loop. Don't pull so hard that the colors roll on top of one another.


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## Kaveman44

do you tie it off, i will take a closer look


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## 2X_LUNG

Huntinsker said:


> I got the Profi because I use a spinner and I don't need the extra weight. If you're serving entirely by hand, which I don't recommend because it takes FOREVER when building strings, then get the heavy.


Exactly! I like the heavy for center serving!

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## 2X_LUNG

Kaveman44 said:


> where can i find out how to tag ends, i have watched enough to do served ends but I'm a little confused about tag ends, is one better of just preference ?


I have a video on YouTube that hits on it. Search how to build a pinstripe bow string. You should see it

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## michaelgentry87

Does the nw spinner shake alot
Been looking at getting one just kinda scaes me ?

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## Toadthumper

Bownut400 said:


> Hi Guys, I am in the Christmas spirit and am willing to share my post setting spread sheet with who ever emails me at [email protected]
> I have been watching all the people willing to help others get started. If your needing a post setting spread sheet email me.
> Merry Christmas archers


Thanks Bownut400!! Much appreciated!


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## MandK

I've had mine for a few months and love it, showed my wife the video on Bowbender's site and she agreed. Must have! And to answer your question no shake.
Mark


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## Huntinsker

michaelgentry87 said:


> Does the nw spinner shake alot
> Been looking at getting one just kinda scaes me ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Nope. Balance it out with weight and you should be golden. Make sure you have some string clamps on either end of where you're serving and you shouldn't have a problem with bounce.


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## b0w_bender

*I'm real close with getting the Beiter spinner inventory back. The X-carve is a bit challenging to work the kinks out but I'm pretty sure by the end of the week I'll be flush with Beiter NWSpinners. *

Some one asked what makes the Beiter so much better. When I was designing the Emerald I look at it rather intently so I needed to understand why it has such a great and consistent tension control. It looks like it isn't that much different but if you look close at the details there is a huge difference in how it functions from other bobbin designs.
1) This is the biggest detail that as far as I know no one else has, the bar that the thread initially bends over is barrel shaped this causes the thread to pay out at a much shallower angle from the spool. A shallow anle keeps the thread from "jumping" over other serving wraps that are on the spool this makes the thread pay out really smoothly. Far smoother than other bobbins.
2) A Heavier mass allows the item to retain momentum as it is rotated over the thread and that momentum overcomes and inconsistencies in tension and allows the bobbin to continue to spin. This is more important for folks who wrap their serving by had but even the automated servers like the NWSpinner benefit from the additional mass. 
3) If you look close at the adapter washers that the Beiter uses they taper down to a small interface where they meet. THis really small surface area makes any inconsistencies in the spool minimized and the small surface area gives you a more consistent friction quotient.
4) the groves at the top are only on the outside of the bobbin so they contact the string in 2 places so any inconsistencies in the string tend not to deflect the bobbin as much.

All these little details add up to a very consistent tension and pay out. Pretty much anyone who has compared the Beiter to one of it's cheaper competitors ultimately chooses the Beiter as the superior tool. Is the additional cost worth the better performance. Most people unequivocally say yes!


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## Huntinsker

Good post b0w_bender.


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## skynight

Where the beiter falls down is with small diameter material. I have two of them and set one up for end serving and one for center serving. But for loop serving the small diameter material comes out of the slot. I do my loop serving by pulling an inch or two of material out if the server and then throwing the server around the string bundle. The server then spins around until it wraps back to the bundle. This makes a nice tight serving quickly. If you do this with a beiter and small diameter material the material will slip out of the slot and it won't work.


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## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> Where the beiter falls down is with small diameter material. I have two of them and set one up for end serving and one for center serving. But for loop serving the small diameter material comes out of the slot. I do my loop serving by pulling an inch or two of material out if the server and then throwing the server around the string bundle. The server then spins around until it wraps back to the bundle. This makes a nice tight serving quickly. If you do this with a beiter and small diameter material the material will slip out of the slot and it won't work.


I serve with .002" braded spectra and it works in the Beiter. Yeah it comes out of the slot but once you get the serving started, it won't come out. If yours comes out of the slot while serving, you may need to flip the jig 180 so the slot is in facing the way the jig is travelling so the serving is being pulled towards the closed side and not the open slot.


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## Kaveman44

how do you find out where to serve on a bow string , i know if i have the string i can just measure it but i wanna build one for my brother and i didn't know id there is a place to find that information, or is it just through experience


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## nestly

Kaveman44 said:


> how do you find out where to serve on a bow string , i know if i have the string i can just measure it but i wanna build one for my brother and i didn't know id there is a place to find that information, or is it just through experience


There's a wealth of information in the  Attn: String Makers thread. Use the forum search tool first, post a request if nothing comes up.


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## skynight

Huntinsker said:


> I serve with .002" braded spectra and it works in the Beiter. Yeah it comes out of the slot but once you get the serving started, it won't come out. If yours comes out of the slot while serving, you may need to flip the jig 180 so the slot is in facing the way the jig is travelling so the serving is being pulled towards the closed side and not the open slot.


Doesn't work if you use the jig the way I described. If you've ever watched deezlins string building video that is the technique I'm referring too. Very fast technique if you haven't tried it.


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## wsbark01

Hey if anyone wants it I have some Trophy and some 8125 string material for sale over in the classified if you are looking for some cheap material to start out with!


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## 2X_LUNG

What you think of my alternating double pinstripes? It'll have black serving. Typhon camo with red cams








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## Toadthumper

Thats a smoker!! Perfect match!


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## 2X_LUNG

Another pic of loop








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## Toadthumper

Very nice loops!! What serving material did you use?


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## fletched

2X_LUNG said:


> Another pic of loop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


How did you get that cut in the top joint of your middle finger? LOL

Nice looking loops.


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## 2X_LUNG

Dog lol

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## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> What you think of my alternating double pinstripes? It'll have black serving. Typhon camo with red cams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Can't wait to see it served and the cables awesome!


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## 2X_LUNG

Loops









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## 2X_LUNG

It'll be together today!!

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## Binary cam man

Those 3 colors and all the variations are awesome. Great loops! I've been serving loops from almost the beginning. I was never a fan of the tag end method. I still would like to see more. Great Work!


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## Binary cam man

Binary cam man said:


> Those 3 colors and all the variations are awesome. Great loops! I've been serving loops from almost the beginning. I was never a fan of the tag end method. I still would like to see more. Great Work!





2X_LUNG said:


> It'll be together today!!
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Those 3 colors and their variations are great. Those loops are awesome. I've been serving loops from almost the beginning. I was never a fan of the tag end method. I still want to see more. Great Job 2X!


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## 2X_LUNG

Binary cam man said:


> Those 3 colors and their variations are great. Those loops are awesome. I've been serving loops from almost the beginning. I was never a fan of the tag end method. I still want to see more. Great Job 2X!


Here's some more progress..









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## 2X_LUNG

One more..









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## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> One more..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Wow! That's perfect on that bow. Nice!


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## 2X_LUNG

Thanks! It's coming together well. I'll post a few more of entire bow when finished!

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## TRUE HUNT

tag


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## 2X_LUNG

All together now..








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## automan26

2X_LUNG said:


> All together now..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


That rig is totally sweeeeeeet. But you know what you have to do now........Take that sweet thing and wave it in front of the guys at the local range. Anything you have built yourself that came out that nice needs to be taken out and strutted around.

Automan


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## 2X_LUNG

Haha!! Thanks automan! It all started with you guys here!! 

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## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> All together now..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Hi 2X, really really nice. You didn't show the center serving yesterday, so I thought you were going to surprise us. I was thinking, you were going to serve it RED. Because of the red cams and the black string stop serving. That's just me thinking outside of the box. I still think it's perfect for that bow. Also listen to Automan, show it off !


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## 2X_LUNG

Binary cam man said:


> Hi 2X, really really nice. You didn't show the center serving yesterday, so I thought you were going to surprise us. I was thinking, you were going to serve it RED. Because of the red cams and the black string stop serving. That's just me thinking outside of the box. I still think it's perfect for that bow. Also listen to Automan, show it off !


Haha! I may just change it to red. Great idea

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## Kaveman44

2X Lung - What serving did you use for the end loops, getting ready to order some serving and would like to give it a try, thanks jimmy


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## 2X_LUNG

Kaveman44 said:


> 2X Lung - What serving did you use for the end loops, getting ready to order some serving and would like to give it a try, thanks jimmy


I used Brownell dura grip on those. 

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Kaveman44 said:


> 2X Lung - What serving did you use for the end loops, getting ready to order some serving and would like to give it a try, thanks jimmy


If i am not mistaken he is using Dura-Grip from Brownell. Send me a PM i can get you a spool of it


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## Kaveman44

whats the best serving to use on roller guards and tight corners, i think I'm gonna use the DURA-GRIP for ends, and was told HALO .021 was good for center serving


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> whats the best serving to use on roller guards and tight corners, i think I'm gonna use the DURA-GRIP for ends, and was told HALO .021 was good for center serving


Get BCY Powergrip in .018" for center serving. Much cheaper and a better center serving material. For roller guards, I like .007 Halo or any of the smaller serving materials like that. That Dura Grip would work great for them too.


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## Kaveman44

so since I'm gonna do the dura grip just buy some more of that and do the roller guards, is the .007 Halo better than the Dura-Grip


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> so since I'm gonna do the dura grip just buy some more of that and do the roller guards, is the .007 Halo better than the Dura-Grip


I know several guys that have switched to the duragrip from the Halo. They are similar but I've heard the duragrip grips the string better. That's why it's so good for served loops. Really you just need a small diameter serving for roller guards. The .008 Spectra from BCY would be okay too. I like braided materials personally because of their abrasion resistance.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

Kaveman44 said:


> so since I'm gonna do the dura grip just buy some more of that and do the roller guards, is the .007 Halo better than the Dura-Grip


Dura Grip will work fine for the roller guard serving, but it is pretty pricey. What i would suggest is some white braided fishing line or .008 spectra or 2x for the roller guard servings and use your Dura grip for loops. Dura grip is going to run you around $30 for a jig spool. one spool will do a whole lot of loops though.

To answer your other question of one being better than the other. They are both great, but the Dura grip most certainly grips better and resists separation better. As far as using it as an end serving you might find that although it is durable for its diameter and intended use, It may prove to be just too small in diameter to hold up on cable end servings, but if its your bow and not for someone else i would say go for it and let us all know how you make out


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## BGagner

I may not ever need this since I don't go through too many strings, but I'm going to tag it anyway. May venture into doing it for friends down the road


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## automan26

*I hate white strings, but.....*

A friend of mine wanted me to build a set of white strings for his bow. I hate white and tried to talk him into something else, but he held fast and insisted on white. I built what he asked for and when I finished and stepped back I was blown away. The bow is sliver with black limbs and the all white strings really looked nice. I trimmed it out in blue Bullwhip which really set things off very nicely. One thing I did like about the white Fury was the way it made the tag-served loops look. I still hate white, but I love the way these threads look on this particular bow.

Automan


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## bowshooter73

He's going to have to baby that Martin to keep it clean.


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## automan26

bowshooter73 said:


> He's going to have to baby that Martin to keep it clean.


That's what I told him and the last set of strings I built for him had well over 45,000 shots on them before he brought the bow to me for replacements. (He shoots a TON). By the time I see these strings again they will probably be puke gray.

Automan


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## jim p

I just saw a picture of 60X strings with the invisiloop serving. The two colors continue to twist as they go around the loop. I have been thinking about how the colors are twisted through the loop so far I don't understand how this is done.

So does anyone know how to twist the string through the loop?

I thought that maybe you could lay the string up twice as long as needed and then twist and double the string back to make it the correct length. But this would only work on one end. The other end would not appear to be twisted.

This is a good puzzle for now.


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## michaelgentry87

I think they twist naturally when serving endloops

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## Huntinsker

jim p said:


> I just saw a picture of 60X strings with the invisiloop serving. The two colors continue to twist as they go around the loop. I have been thinking about how the colors are twisted through the loop so far I don't understand how this is done.
> 
> So does anyone know how to twist the string through the loop?
> 
> I thought that maybe you could lay the string up twice as long as needed and then twist and double the string back to make it the correct length. But this would only work on one end. The other end would not appear to be twisted.
> 
> This is a good puzzle for now.


The twist through the loop is simply the material twisting as it's served. With enough tension on the serving bobbin to make the serving go clear, it will grab and twist the string material as the loop is served.


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## jim p

That makes perfect sense. I guess that you must serve the loops with the string not up to full tension for serving. I know that I have had the string twist under the serving when I did not use full tension.

Those invisiservings do look pretty.


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## skynight

jim p said:


> I just saw a picture of 60X strings with the invisiloop serving. The two colors continue to twist as they go around the loop. I have been thinking about how the colors are twisted through the loop so far I don't understand how this is done.
> 
> So does anyone know how to twist the string through the loop?
> 
> I thought that maybe you could lay the string up twice as long as needed and then twist and double the string back to make it the correct length. But this would only work on one end. The other end would not appear to be twisted.
> 
> This is a good puzzle for now.


My preference is that they do not twist under the loop serving. It makes it confusing when the strands enter the loop one way and exit it another. I can't think of any advantage to it.


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## jim p

I don't serve my loops so it is not a problem for me. 

If you serve each loop in the same direction maybe the twist would equal out on each side of the string.


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## Binary cam man

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all at AT.


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## Earle J's Custom Strings

skynight said:


> My preference is that they do not twist under the loop serving. It makes it confusing when the strands enter the loop one way and exit it another. I can't think of any advantage to it.


the trick is to not use a ton of tension on the bobbin. 3 pounds or so is all. It will go clear and all of the twists that are not underneath the serving will come out. Also i have been separating them with a golf tee lately and you can serve a little tighter without much twist.

Any way even if there are no visible twists even under the serving, once you bend it in half to make the loop it will appear to have twist in the loop to some degree anyway.


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## Kaveman44

new to DIY strings and just purchased a complete set from Butch at BAP, im gonna do my string and serving order on saturdat, i would love some help on recommendations on serving materials for certain areas. So many options, hard to keep it all together, i know experiance is the best knowledge but was hoping to get some help from you guys, thanks ahead of time JIMMY

1. Center Serving - 
2. Roller Guards - 
3. End Loops - 
4. Serving to the end loops -


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## michaelgentry87

How tight d9 yall lay up your string material on 4 post jig? I have found that loose wraps yield best result and not hulking them on

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## michaelgentry87

Kaveman44 said:


> new to DIY strings and just purchased a complete set from Butch at BAP, im gonna do my string and serving order on saturdat, i would love some help on recommendations on serving materials for certain areas. So many options, hard to keep it all together, i know experiance is the best knowledge but was hoping to get some help from you guys, thanks ahead of time JIMMY
> 
> 1. Center Serving -
> 2. Roller Guards -
> 3. End Loops -
> 4. Serving to the end loops -


Center serving ...I use 62xs
End serving....halo .014
Loops....008 spectra
Rollers I have always heard good about halo 

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

mini, 3d and 2x for shooting string ends, angel majesty power grip and RCT for center. Halo, Bullwhip and .014 Power grip for cable ends. 2x and mini for roller guard, and finally Dura Grip is my favorite for end loops, and .007 halo coming in a very close second


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## nestly

Kaveman44 said:


> new to DIY strings and just purchased a complete set from Butch at BAP, im gonna do my string and serving order on saturdat, i would love some help on recommendations on serving materials for certain areas. So many options, hard to keep it all together, i know experiance is the best knowledge but was hoping to get some help from you guys, thanks ahead of time JIMMY
> 
> 1. Center Serving -
> 2. Roller Guards -
> 3. End Loops -
> 4. Serving to the end loops -


I like BCY 2x for loop, end, roller, and string stop servings. For center serving, either BCY 62XS (.021) or BCY Powergrip (.018) give the nock fit I like on 24 strands of 452X.

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## Kaveman44

Got stand built today and will receive string material Tuesday , can't wait!!!!

( how do you post pictures on yur phone???? )


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## wsbark01

Does anyone have the string and cable specs on the chill x pro? And yes I looked and used the search in the string section.


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## 2X_LUNG

Little stormy hardwoods natural set finishing up! 








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## 138104

2X_LUNG said:


> Little stormy hardwoods natural set finishing up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


That's really nice! Does the orange bleed into the white?


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## 2X_LUNG

Perry24 said:


> That's really nice! Does the orange bleed into the white?


Not a bit! It's fury

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## Earle J's Custom Strings

wsbark01 said:


> Does anyone have the string and cable specs on the chill x pro? And yes I looked and used the search in the string section.


The specs for the chill x pro are the same as the chill x here ya go


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## wsbark01

Earle J's Custom Strings said:


> The specs for the chill x pro are the same as the chill x here ya go
> View attachment 3469225


Thank you!


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## Kaveman44

looking for some recommendations on string length and string twist formulas. Im gonna build some test strings and am looking for a place to start. thanks jimmy


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## bowshooter73

This is from the first page of the thread. After you have built a few, you may need adjust it. To your build style.


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## Kaveman44

i got my a bow hutch-n-Son Bow serving sheet, and they use a formula of Length X 1.0065 and ther Twist rate is X .66 , yours is Length X 1.009 , should i make a short string to test what my formula would be


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## bowshooter73

Like I said, no formula is perfect. I don't use one, I've made enough over the years I know around about where my layout needs to be. As your building practice strings you'll figure out what works best for you. Two builders can build off the same formula and come out different in the end.


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## michaelgentry87

Just as a quickie I'm double checking why I do with fury and was wondering what yall do

I lay up separate and burnish 
Ray knight said not to prestretch, I had bad luck with that
Then tension to 150 to 200 and twist 
Put to 350 to 400 burnish and let sit an hour or two depending
Then relax for 12 serve and then relax again before installing. 
Any input

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## 2X_LUNG

Don't prestretch! The rest you posted is real good to follow

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## bowshooter73

I here people let strings relax over night or a couple hours, never user stood it. I'll take a string off the stretcher after 1-2 hours, put it on the serving jig for 10 minutes with no tension before I crank it up to 100# and measure length. Then I'll put the spring to it and serve. 5 shots and nothing moves from that point on.


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## 48archer

bowshooter73 said:


> I here people let strings relax over night or a couple hours, never user stood it. I'll take a string off the stretcher after 1-2 hours, put it on the serving jig for 10 minutes with no tension before I crank it up to 100# and measure length. Then I'll put the spring to it and serve. 5 shots and nothing moves from that point on.


I think most are letting them set over night after serving the string.


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## nestly

bowshooter73 said:


> I here people let strings relax over night or a couple hours, never user stood it. I'll take a string off the stretcher after 1-2 hours, put it on the serving jig for 10 minutes with no tension before I crank it up to 100# and measure length. Then I'll put the spring to it and serve. 5 shots and nothing moves from that point on.


I have not found any difference between a string that's left on the stretcher for several hours and one that's only on the stretcher long enough to twist and serve it.

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## bowshooter73

I do notice a difference on a longer single cam strings. I'll lay it out, twist, burnish, then move it to the stretcher while I do my cable.


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## Huntinsker

I let them rest overnight after serving. Then take the final measurement the next day.


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## Kaveman44

do you guys measure length under pressure, and if so what poundage, thanks


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## bowshooter73

100# is standard.


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> I let them rest overnight after serving. Then take the final measurement the next day.


This is a good idea. I have had several strings measure out 1/8" shorter after an overnight rest. When serving is applied under tension it may tend to hold the string under it in the stretched position. Allowing the string to set overnight let's the portion under the served areas to relax back to the string's true length for accurate measurement.

Automan


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## Kaveman44

what string material do you guys burnish your strings with?


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## bowshooter73

You can use another piece of string material, end serve, center serve.


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## 2X_LUNG

This loop stuff is addicting!!!









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## Kaveman44

where can i find out how to setup my Beiter Jig , i just recieved it and was no instructions in it, i put a spool if serving in it , just not sure on how to run the serving thread, thanks


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## skynight

Kaveman44 said:


> what string material do you guys burnish your strings with?


I use cotton twine, I think it's called masonry twine. It's soft and about the thickness of a finished bow string. It not only scrapes off the wax, it absorbs it.


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## michaelgentry87

If its a newer one it should be printed on the side

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## nestly

michaelgentry87 said:


> If its a newer one it should be printed on the side
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Yep....diagram is molded into side of the jig

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## emelvin

Just out of curiosity ( I may have missed it and I'm sorry if I did) what do you use and how do you guys set up a stretcher to test and mark your tension weights? I know I'm going to need a scale. After that I'm lost. Working building a four post and stretcher. Hope to have it done in a few days.


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## Huntinsker

emelvin said:


> Just out of curiosity ( I may have missed it and I'm sorry if I did) what do you use and how do you guys set up a stretcher to test and mark your tension weights? I know I'm going to need a scale. After that I'm lost. Working building a four post and stretcher. Hope to have it done in a few days.


I use a 500lb dial scale. Search "500lb dial scale" on google and there are tons of them, all very similar, for a good price.


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## emelvin

Thank you huntinsker I'll check it out. I should have been more specific. What do you use to hook the scale between the posts. Do you use a short set of strings, cable,rope or is the scale hooked up by itself?


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## soldier1265

Thinking about selling my Little Jon and switching to a Super Server. An other suggestions? Also, thinking about switching back to 452X from X. I like X, but I also like that there are more colors with 452X. Any input on that as well? Thanks all!


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## Jramey

I have a question, for those who tag end serve, do you whip stitch the end serving or do you weave? I watched a video on a guy who weaved his and when he served over to close the loop it was very streamline without a thick spot at the whip stitch


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## michaelgentry87

I weave I think it's a lot tighter and more streamlined as u said

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## automan26

soldier1265 said:


> Thinking about selling my Little Jon and switching to a Super Server. An other suggestions? Also, thinking about switching back to 452X from X. I like X, but I also like that there are more colors with 452X. Any input on that as well? Thanks all!


Super Servers are great. I have a friend who has one an every time I watch it work I turn green with envy. If you are going to volume strings the Super Server is a very good way to go. You might consider hanging on to your Little Jon though. Super Servers are great for twisting, stretching and serving, but you will need something for layout purposes. The Little Jon would be great for that. If you want to sell the Little Jon to help fund the Super Server then you might want to build one of the DIY jigs on this thread for layout and stretching.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 452x, it is great stuff. It gets its bad rap only because some other materials have come out that are a bit better. Millions of 452x strings have been built over many years and the material has, and still, performs very well. It is a stable material and does everything a string material should do, but we tend to think that because something better has come along, 452x is now undesirable, which simply is not the case.

Automan


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## BlindBuck

Jramey said:


> I have a question, for those who tag end serve, do you whip stitch the end serving or do you weave? I watched a video on a guy who weaved his and when he served over to close the loop it was very streamline without a thick spot at the whip stitch


I weave, it makes the best transition that I am capable of doing by using tag ends. Waiting on some Fury material as I've finally run out of 452X. Since the diameter of Fury is smaller I'm really thinking it will make a great transition when weaving.

What I'd really love to know is the method people are using for serving the end loops and if there is a benefit besides the fact they look great. I'm sure that is in this thread somewhere but I'll be dang if I can locate it.

Picture isn't the best but you can kind of see the transition.










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## Kaveman44

How do you guys upload pictures on your phone with the new archery talk website


----------



## Jramey

Kaveman44 said:


> How do you guys upload pictures on your phone with the new archery talk website


Download photobucket
Upload photos to photobucket
Copy IMG link for photo in the info section for the picture
Paste the IMG link in your message

That is the easiest way I have found to do it and it's quick and can be done all on your smartphone


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## Kaveman44

i will give it a try , thanks Jramey


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## Kaveman44

Built a 24" practice string,It was the only two colors that I received, will receive more colors today


----------



## Kaveman44

Made with fury, can't wait to try a pinstripe


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## Kaveman44

Garage is a mess but I decided to build a 6 foot bench along my jig to set tools and other stuff on


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## Kaveman44

First tag end , little bumpy , I will do better


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Jramey said:


> I have a question, for those who tag end serve, do you whip stitch the end serving or do you weave? I watched a video on a guy who weaved his and when he served over to close the loop it was very streamline without a thick spot at the whip stitch


Weave. My pinstripe video on YouTube shows it

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## 2X_LUNG

Kaveman, great work! You're catching on quickly!!

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## Kaveman44

its addicting, cant wait to get home and have all the colors i ordered


----------



## Kaveman44

You guys know anyone i can buy Brownell Fury from?, dont wanna keep buying from Lancaster, thanks


----------



## BlindBuck

Kaveman44 said:


> You guys know anyone i can buy Brownell Fury from?, dont wanna keep buying from Lancaster, thanks


2X_LUNG 

I just ordered a few spools of Fury from him to try. Great guy to work with and extremely honest. Answered all of my questions since I'm switching from 452x.

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## automan26

Kaveman44 said:


> its addicting, cant wait to get home and have all the colors i ordered


It is so addictive that I heard the CDC is calling for WARNING labels on all spools of string material. I am sooooo hooked and it sounds like the bug bit you real good too. When I have a string stretching out I can't control myself, I have to walk back every 20 minutes or so just to look at it.

Automan


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## Kaveman44

whats the best way to make the yoke?


----------



## michaelgentry87

Kaveman44 said:


> whats the best way to make the yoke?


4 or 2 post

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## Kaveman44

i have both


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## michaelgentry87

I'm not sure on a four post but on a two I'll lay up one half tag end serve, lay up two right over it tag end serve it go to other end and join em

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## automan26

Kaveman44 said:


> whats the best way to make the yoke?


Look at the pics on p.14, post 346. This Is how I do it on my two poster.

Automan


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## michaelgentry87

I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME MAKE A SERVED END LOOPED STRING WITHOUT ONE LOOS STRAND !!! 

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## michaelgentry87

Sorry just ranting

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## bowshooter73

When I first started doing them I'd always have a loose one, every string. I wish there was a way to explain how to prevent it. Practice practice practice is all I can say. Now I don't even think about it. I barely touch the strans with the tip of my finger, if I have a loose one, I can feel it. I do it before I do each end serve. Once and while I'll have to unwrap a tie off and give it a GENTAL pull.


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## michaelgentry87

Maybe I need to do that, I'm using small bungee. 4" in the middle then wrapping last end on post and rivets in figure 8 i can't tell in the lay up, but when moving to stretcher I'll add like 100lb then loosen after 15, just practicing and looking for loose strand, and then when I loosen and slowly add pressure behold lol. I need to pic a technique and use one and strick with it tho

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## bowshooter73

The closest thing to tension I put on my 4 post is when I pull lightly on the bundle while I'm serving, basically a finger on the inside pulling toward me. I try not to pull on anything enough to pull on my tie offs. The strans will see enough tension when I get it on the stretcher.


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## Kaveman44

First string on the stretcher over night, had to represent my Miami Hurricanes


----------



## soldier1265

automan26 said:


> Super Servers are great. I have a friend who has one an every time I watch it work I turn green with envy. If you are going to volume strings the Super Server is a very good way to go. You might consider hanging on to your Little Jon though. Super Servers are great for twisting, stretching and serving, but you will need something for layout purposes. The Little Jon would be great for that. If you want to sell the Little Jon to help fund the Super Server then you might want to build one of the DIY jigs on this thread for layout and stretching.
> 
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with 452x, it is great stuff. It gets its bad rap only because some other materials have come out that are a bit better. Millions of 452x strings have been built over many years and the material has, and still, performs very well. It is a stable material and does everything a string material should do, but we tend to think that because something better has come along, 452x is now undesirable, which simply is not the case.
> 
> Automan



Thanks for the response! I've got 2 jigs that I built that I use right now for layout purposes. May do a little more digging before I get rid of the little jon. Thanks again!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I have to say going from tag ends to served loops has been awesome! It's so easy and my hands aren't sliced n diced anymore. Lol









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## Binary cam man

2X_LUNG said:


> I have to say going from tag ends to served loops has been awesome! It's so easy and my hands aren't sliced n diced anymore. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


It's 3:32 am. Can anybody find 2X? Nice Work!


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## squid013

Probably in his shop

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## 2X_LUNG

Hahaha

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## BlindBuck

2X_LUNG said:


> I have to say going from tag ends to served loops has been awesome! It's so easy and my hands aren't sliced n diced anymore. Lol
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Okay, do you mind sharing your technique / process for doing this?(maybe another video:wink I know all to well about the slice and dice with doing tag ends, and would like to try my hand at served loops. I actually wrap my fingers with medical tape now when building.lol I think it is going to be a little time consuming for me to use this method since I only have a three post setup and I believe this would be much easier on a four post jig.

Also is there any benefit to doing this besides aesthetics?


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## bowshooter73

I can be ready to twist and stretch quicker doing end serving then I can doing tag end. I do tag ends on my personal bows and have a few guys that prefer the softer tag ends because of the way it wraps around the pegs. Served end loops look good for sure, but structurally, their not any better then tag end.


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## Kaveman44

im doing served ends and measure my string with the 4 post all in a line,but when i go to turn the post the string strands move and some come loose, is there a better way to measure or quicker way like a spreadsheet so i can just leave the 4 post turned square, thanks guys


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## bowshooter73

Butch has a spread sheet. I measure post inline. Then I turn them both 90* and do my layout.


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## bowshooter73

If you have one of you 2 post in a fixed spot, you can measure to the other 2 post while it is straight at say 100". Then turn them both 90* and find or put a mark on the 2 post that you going to slide in the strut. Get a stick on tape measure, line up your 100" mark and stick it to the strut. That way you don't even need a tape.


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## nestly

bowshooter73 said:


> Butch has a spread sheet. I measure post inline. Then I turn them both 90* and do my layout.


I think the question was about endloops for split yokes. I clamp and take half the bundle off the yoke end posts.....but I'd like to know a better way.

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## Chris1ny

145 pages. This is going to be some great New Year reading.

Have a Happy New Year everyone.


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## bowshooter73

On spits, I keep all my tags at one end and serve it first, but leave the tags tied off. I don't move my any of the post, I just separate and pull the top bundle off the jig and serve the one still on it. Then pull it up and off and stretch the other bundle back on and serve it. I finish the yoke serve after I twist, stretch and serve the rest of the string. Hard to explain, but it work good for me.


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## michaelgentry87

[














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## michaelgentry87

Anyone tried these just ordered one figured it can't hurt archery-zone.com

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## Kaveman44

how many strands of fury for the cables, thanks guys


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## bowshooter73

Most people seem to use 32


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## McMickster

Kaveman44 said:


> how many strands of fury for the cables, thanks guys



Depends on the bow and what will be acceptable for a finished diameter. I typically use 28 strands, and up to 32 strands on bows with a more generous cam or module tracks. 28 strands with .014 Bullwhip serving usually ends up around .104 finished diameter.


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## Huntinsker

Just a reminder to the newer posters that there is a search function that you can do a keyword search of the thread. It's located at the top of the thread in the top right corner between "Thread Tools" and "Rate This Thread". I know there are a lot of pages and a lot of information but you should be able to find nearly all the answers to your questions that way. 

Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for posting. Really appreciate all the people keeping this thread alive.


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## JayFank

Great stuff!


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## skynight

michaelgentry87 said:


> Anyone tried these just ordered one figured it can't hurt archery-zone.com
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I use one. I'd like to have another so don't have to switch spools constantly.
The key to using it is to put the spool on so that it s spins in a direction to tighten the wingnut. Otherwise it loosens as you use it and the tension changes.


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## RitchiePatel

i like DIY , re-engineering is how i do ti also..


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## Kaveman44

just wanna run some things past you guys and you tell me if its ok or what to change, i have been using .008 BCY Spectra for loop ends, Halo .014 for everythng else (end serving and and roller guards) , and Halo .021 for center serving, i guess I'm nerves about the .014 Halo on roller guards, i just decided to keep it simple and i might of messed up, thanks guys


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## Jramey

First official string set, turned out pretty good IMO, took me all weekend


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> just wanna run some things past you guys and you tell me if its ok or what to change, i have been using .008 BCY Spectra for loop ends, Halo .014 for everythng else (end serving and and roller guards) , and Halo .021 for center serving, i guess I'm nerves about the .014 Halo on roller guards, i just decided to keep it simple and i might of messed up, thanks guys


Depends on the bow. On a Mathews with the wide/deep rollers, you'll be fine. On my Bears or something like a Hoyt, that have smaller tracks on the rollers, you may be too big with the .014. You have to base the best option on the problem at hand. Very few times is there a "one sized fits all" solution.


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## Huntinsker

Jramey said:


> First official string set, turned out pretty good IMO, took me all weekend


They look great! Good job on the first set. It's a satisfying feeling shooting that first arrow off a new set that you've just built.


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## Kaveman44

whats a good smaller size for the rollers, i have a Hoty Defiant turbo on order and am getting ready to make a string, thanks


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> whats a good smaller size for the rollers, i have a Hoty Defiant turbo on order and am getting ready to make a string, thanks


I use .007 halo for my Bear rollers but anything of that size should work. They shouldn't receive a lot of wear from the rollers so you don't really have to use a braided material like halo. .008 Spectra serving would work well from BCY.


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## Scottso

nicely done


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## hoppi84

Another first set for ya huntinsker!!! Thanks for the great thread and threads man...


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## Huntinsker

That's a great combo ^^^^^ Goes really well on that camo. Would look good on a Lost camo bow too.


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## Kaveman44

i was thinking of ordering some braided fishing line from china but just wanted to see if the size they say they are match up ,and how are they in quality , was thinking about some white 6# , and black 10# , and where do you guys order your .007 Halo , i searched it and cant find it, thanks guys


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## Kaveman44

Getting tighter but I need to slow down, I keep forgetting small things like the string that seperates my string for my peep 

. All flo green with a black pin stripe


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## Kaveman44

actually the black in 40# , i was reading them in 0.14mm instead of .014


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## Kaveman44

Huntinsker said:


> I use .007 halo for my Bear rollers but anything of that size should work. They shouldn't receive a lot of wear from the rollers so you don't really have to use a braided material like halo. .008 Spectra serving would work well from BCY.


do they make anything in that size or even close in different colors other than black of white


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## skynight

Kaveman44 said:


> i was thinking of ordering some braided fishing line from china but just wanted to see if the size they say they are match up ,and how are they in quality , was thinking about some white 6# , and black 10# , and where do you guys order your .007 Halo , i searched it and cant find it, thanks guys


I bought in ebay. The sizes are bigger than they claim. I've only bought the 8 strand spectra. The 40# is closest to .014 halo. It is slicker than halo, but the white clears up nice. I tried the 10# white for loop serving, awesome looking but not durable. I'm using the 15# white now, looks good and no durability problems so far. The loop serving is really the only thing I'm using any of it for.


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> do they make anything in that size or even close in different colors other than black of white


I've heard that .007 Halo wasn't actually discontinued. You still may be able to order it from places like 60x if you call. Not sure why it's not listed on other sites for sale. If you can't get a hold of that, the Chinese braided lines would work really well too. You don't have to worry about slipping or a lot of wear so they would do the trick nicely.


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## 2X_LUNG

Can't remember if I shared this or not...it looks really neat. Little more complicated however. Lol. The alternating pinstripes








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## deerbum

I use the 20 and 40 pound Chinese spectra 8 strand. They measure .008" and .012" respectively with my dial calipers. The 20 works well for yoke end serving and roller guard serving. I use the 40 for string end servings. Lots of color options just check out Ebay.


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## 2X_LUNG

I like the 30# for end serving on strings. I've also used it on cables with great results!

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## michael.tollefs

where do you find the measurements for how long your serving should be on the string and cables?


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## hoppi84

Definitely not a 2x but getting there!! Still need to figure out why my black pin split at both ends..


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## 2X_LUNG

hoppi84 said:


> Definitely not a 2x but getting there!! Still need to figure out why my black pin split at both ends..


Bam!!! Excellent job! 

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## Huntinsker

michael.tollefs said:


> where do you find the measurements for how long your serving should be on the string and cables?


Use the "search thread" function in this sticky found in the "Arrows and Strings" forum. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247


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## Kaveman44

Finished my first string and just out it on my bow, looks so much better than the one I bought from Vaportrails


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## Huntinsker

Nicely done Kaveman! They look great. It's a really satisfying feeling making that first set. 

One really great thing about making your own is being able to build to your custom lengths. None of my bows have factory length threads on them. I tune my bows and then measure the strings and will build to those "tuned lengths". I find that that is particularly helpful with Mathews bows because the published lengths are not very accurate.


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## Kaveman44

it feels so much smoother now than before, cant wait to tune it


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## michaelgentry87

Quick question on your served loops....do you just cut the tags off or back wrap, I'm a try to just cut the tags off due to the serving not wanting to lay down properly

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## bowshooter73

I weave them 3 or 4 times and wait till after I twist and before serve. I give them a pull to make sure their snug and cut them as close as I can.


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## Kaveman44

i pull real tight and cut the tags off as close as i can


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## michaelgentry87

I have weaved but just wondering if they would slip if I just cut

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## bowshooter73

Once their twisted up and served over, their not going anywhere


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## michaelgentry87

Rogy

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## nestly

In the old days... I used to capture the tag ends under the entire end servings (15+ inches) but I'd never just snip them without tying off/weaving with only a short endloop serving to hold them. Heck, I back-serve 1" and have no trouble pulling braided/twisted material under 1" of serving, so I'd never expect smooth/waxed thread to hold the same weight as the other strands with only 2" of serving to hold them from slipping. If you do a neat job of tying-off/weaving, you should be able to get a clean transition when you serve over it.


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## hoppi84

On to set number two!!!


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## Jramey

My second set of threads for my dads bow. Getting better each time! I think I'm hooked


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## Huntinsker

Looking good everyone!


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## Binary cam man

Great Thread. I learned to make strings here. From the beginning I never liked the tag end method. I like served loops. There is a lot of different ways to deal with the string ends. Always make a test string to see what works for you. For me I just cut them off. I made a test string. Served the loop. Left the string ends long. Twisted the string. Served the string end about 5 inches up to the loop but not over it. So the loose string ends could hang out. Mark them, measure them,to know their length. Next put them on the stretcher. I cranked it up way past 350 and let it sit on the stretcher for days. Always make a test string however you choose to do the loop ends.


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## Binary cam man

Also keep in mind, it's the middle of the string bundle that has to move in order for the string ends to move. Once twisted and served, I don't see any movement. But everyone's process is different. Always make a test string. Hope this helps.


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## automan26

A few days ago I was looking back over the first pages of this thread and I was able to observe how our skills developed as the thread progressed. Today I look at pics of some of the first strings some of you are building and I smile because many of these first-time strings are much better than what most of us were producing way back when. It took us time to develop our skills to the point where many of you are just starting out. I am thrilled to see so many guys jumping in and getting totally addicted.

Back at the first there were some guys who came on and challenged us when we said that string building could be learned rather quickly. I see a lot of new builders, right out of the shoot, putting out better strings than I have seen produced by some of the top string companies. You guys are proof that string building is not rocket science. True, one is always perfecting his or her skills, I learn something from every build I do and I have been at it for a long time, but becoming a competent string builder is attainable more quickly than might be first thought.

You guys are doing great!!!!!!

Automan


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## b0w_bender

automan26 said:


> I am thrilled to see so many guys jumping in and getting totally addicted.
> Automan


Misery loves company :set1_rolf2:


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## tote

Understanding serving direction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this helped me understand which way to serve. 
I imagine the string as a long piece of all-thread with a nut at each end.
Spin the nut so it travels towards the middle. This is the same direction a clockwise string should be served.
Correct?


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## Purka

You don't want the serving to follow the threaded rod grove it needs to go across it.


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## nestly

tote said:


> Understanding serving direction.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but this helped me understand which way to serve.
> I imagine the string as a long piece of all-thread with a nut at each end.
> Spin the nut so it travels towards the middle. This is the same direction a clockwise string should be served.
> Correct?


It's a bit confusing because while it is correct to twist clockwise and serve clockwise, string and serving actually end up going in opposite directions because when string is twisted, you're typically standing "ahead" of the string and twisting toward yourself, and when you serve, you're typically standing "behind" the serving jig and wrapping away from yourself. 

As Purka said, serving should go "across" the strands of the string.


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## tote

tote said:


> Understanding serving direction.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but this helped me understand which way to serve.
> I imagine the string as a long piece of all-thread with a nut at each end.
> Spin the nut so it travels towards the middle. This is the same direction a clockwise string should be served.
> Correct?


OK, how about this?
Same scenario as above but instead of saying spin the nut so it travels towards the middle, how about spinning the nut so it travels towards the opposite post?


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## squid013

Or I just look at what direction will make it tighten the twists under the serving

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## mongopino915

Lots of great looking string sets here.

I can honestly say that string building is one thing that the local garage folks can do better than the big dogs.


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## nestly

tote said:


> OK, how about this?
> Same scenario as above but instead of saying spin the nut so it travels towards the middle, how about spinning the nut so it travels towards the opposite post?


Nope...doesn't matter which direction you spin the "nut" that analogy doesn't work because a clockwise twisted string equates to a left hand thread and clockwise serving equates to right hand threads.

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## tote

nestly said:


> Nope...doesn't matter which direction you spin the "nut" that analogy doesn't work because a clockwise twisted string equates to a left hand thread and clockwise serving equates to right hand threads.
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk



Thank you, you are absolutely correct about the twist being counter clockwise on a clockwise twisted thread.
I am in the process of making my string jig and trying to understand as much as I can before I get to 'stringin'. 
I printed out all the formulas for jig length, twists and the like and laminated them. Then I noticed a mistake in one of the numbers. It helped me to understand even more after I found it.
I just took the wires from my headphones and twisted them in a clockwise fashion. I can now see the threads are counter clockwise. Much easier to understand on a larger scale. 
But the twists I made look exactly like the twists in the animated video; same direction.
I see where I made my mistake in describing the all-thread/nut analogy.
But I know if I visualize the string, twisted clockwise, as a regular section of all-thread, if I spin the nuts in the direction I want the serving to go it'll be correct.
If I want to serve towards the end loop then the spin on the nut that would move that nut towards the end loop will be the same spin direction I want to serve the string.
If I want to serve away from the end loop then the spin on the nut that would move that nut away the end loop will be the same spin direction I want to serve the string.
I am WAY better at visualizing than describing.
This way it won't matter which side of the string I am standing on. As long as I remember to 'move the nut' in the direction I want to serve, I'll know which way to spin the bobbin (I mean.... NW Spinner).
If this is wrong then I am about as confused as it gets.


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## Purka

tote said:


> But I know if I visualize the string, twisted clockwise, as a regular section of all-thread, if I spin the nuts in the direction I want the serving to go it'll be correct.
> If I want to serve towards the end loop then the spin on the nut that would move that nut towards the end loop will be the same spin direction I want to serve the string.
> If I want to serve away from the end loop then the spin on the nut that would move that nut away the end loop will be the same spin direction I want to serve the string.
> I am WAY better at visualizing than describing.
> This way it won't matter which side of the string I am standing on. As long as I remember to 'move the nut' in the direction I want to serve, I'll know which way to spin the bobbin (I mean.... NW Spinner).
> If this is wrong then I am about as confused as it gets.


If you're serving in the same direction as the nut is turning (clockwise) you want to go anticlockwise.


----------



## Huntinsker

tote said:


> Thank you, you are absolutely correct about the twist being counter clockwise on a clockwise twisted thread.
> I am in the process of making my string jig and trying to understand as much as I can before I get to 'stringin'.
> I printed out all the formulas for jig length, twists and the like and laminated them. Then I noticed a mistake in one of the numbers. It helped me to understand even more after I found it.
> I just took the wires from my headphones and twisted them in a clockwise fashion. I can now see the threads are counter clockwise. Much easier to understand on a larger scale.
> But the twists I made look exactly like the twists in the animated video; same direction.
> I see where I made my mistake in describing the all-thread/nut analogy.
> But I know if I visualize the string, twisted clockwise, as a regular section of all-thread, if I spin the nuts in the direction I want the serving to go it'll be correct.
> If I want to serve towards the end loop then the spin on the nut that would move that nut towards the end loop will be the same spin direction I want to serve the string.
> If I want to serve away from the end loop then the spin on the nut that would move that nut away the end loop will be the same spin direction I want to serve the string.
> I am WAY better at visualizing than describing.
> This way it won't matter which side of the string I am standing on. As long as I remember to 'move the nut' in the direction I want to serve, I'll know which way to spin the bobbin (I mean.... NW Spinner).
> If this is wrong then I am about as confused as it gets.


If you imagine your clockwise twisted string as a piece of right hand thread all thread, then yes, you can imagine the serving bobbin as a nut and twist it towards the middle or the posts. Just don't get confused when you see the string fibers laying out like a left hand thread when you're imagining a right hand thread. Also make sure you're able to recognize a string/cable that is twisted counterclockwise in case you're asked to do a serving repair. Some companies and makers use a counterclockwise twist when building so if you don't recognize it, you can really mess it up quick.


----------



## Jramey

First attempt at a pinstripe. It's gonna go on my sons diamond atomic


----------



## automan26

That is a fine looking pinstripe. No pro builder could do it any better.

Automan


----------



## 2X_LUNG

automan26 said:


> That is a fine looking pinstripe. No pro builder could do it any better.
> 
> Automan


What automan said! Great work!

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## michaelgentry87

Ok my fury guys
Strand count is 28 to 32 
But my dartons use 20 to 22 from factory of 452,bcy x
So how does this transfer 
Cause I built...should a built a test string....a string and it's like .008 more than the original using 28 strand string 30 strand cables. Shame to they looked awe some 


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## automan26

mongopino915 said:


> I can honestly say that string building is one thing that the local garage folks can do better than the big dogs.


I totally agree. Time and patience is a resource we have that is in short supply for those to whom time is money.

Automan


----------



## Jramey

mongopino915 said:


> Lots of great looking string sets here.
> 
> I can honestly say that string building is one thing that the local garage folks can do better than the big dogs.


I agree completely this thread alone has some of the best looking strings you can find. It constantly amazes me looking at all the different color combos people are making ,can completely change the look of a bow. I need more colors to play with now lol


----------



## automan26

michaelgentry87 said:


> Ok my fury guys
> Strand count is 28 to 32
> But my dartons use 20 to 22 from factory of 452,bcy x
> So how does this transfer
> Cause I built...should a built a test string....a string and it's like .008 more than the original using 28 strand string 30 strand cables. Shame to they looked awe some
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I have built 26 strand Fury strings that worked well. It might be worth trying out with a practice string. That strand count might be the diameter you are looking for.

Automan


----------



## JSong

If one to look at purchasing a custom string, does anyone have any good recommended string company out there?
Thanks


----------



## 2X_LUNG

JSong said:


> If one to look at purchasing a custom string, does anyone have any good recommended string company out there?
> Thanks


Anyone here could

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## michaelgentry87

JSong said:


> If one to look at purchasing a custom string, does anyone have any good recommended string company out there?
> Thanks


Oh now where do I start

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

JSong said:


> If one to look at purchasing a custom string, does anyone have any good recommended string company out there?
> Thanks


If you want a set of strings,read the thread and pm one of the many professional custom string builders her at AT. Not me I'm in the process of moving and my jig is packed. NOW IF YOU WANT AN ADVENTURE, JOIN US AND START MAKING YOUR OWN. START AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD. ITS NOT VERY DIFFICULT. THERE IS A LEARNING PROCESS. ONCE YOU GET STARTED, YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND GET HELP. WARNING STRING MAKING IS ADDICTIVE AND ALOT OF FUN!


----------



## automan26

JSong said:


> If one to look at purchasing a custom string, does anyone have any good recommended string company out there?
> Thanks


If you want, you could be shooting your own strings in exactly 30 days from today and those strings you built would be better than anything you can purchase commercially. The info on this thread is for guys just like you. The money you would save by building your own threads would offset much of the initial cost and if you build a set for a friend, you are at the break-even point. Plan on getting hooked and once you do you, like MANY others on this thread, will be building strings for others which can help fund your newly-found addiction. I built three sets of threads for my two bows in the past 4 months and three sets for friends. All my strings cost me nothing at this point because I have made enough off selling to others that I am way ahead of the game on cost.


Automan


----------



## hoppi84

Thanks to 2x i believe I'm addicted to the pin!!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

hoppi84 said:


> Thanks to 2x i believe I'm addicted to the pin!!


Lol! Great work! I like that combo

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## 2X_LUNG

Built a neat set for a camo Hoyt faktor 30. Should match perfectly. Bcy x material









Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## bigdogjp

Ok guys I have a formula question. My first string was fury material & worked great did not have any peep twist, other than cosmetic issues with bulky end servings I am very pleased. Now on my second string which is 452x i used same formula but have lots of bumps & peep twist. When I added my peep the twist ratio seems very tight. Can too tight of twists bind up on them selves? The numbers I used are length X .75 to get # of twist & that # X .012 + finish length = post setting. My question is if I want less twists in finished product how do the numbers change? & both .75 & .012 would have to change correct? I'm probly way over my head trying to under stand this but if someone could tell me how this works so I don't have too much wasted material trying to figure it out I would appreciate it thanks.


----------



## bigdogjp

bigdogjp said:


> Ok guys I have a formula question. My first string was fury material & worked great did not have any peep twist, other than cosmetic issues with bulky end servings I am very pleased. Now on my second string which is 452x i used same formula but have lots of bumps & peep twist. When I added my peep the twist ratio seems very tight. Can too tight of twists bind up on them selves? The numbers I used are length X .75 to get # of twist & that # X .012 + finish length = post setting. My question is if I want less twists in finished product how do the numbers change? & both .75 & .012 would have to change correct? I'm probly way over my head trying to under stand this but if someone could tell me how this works so I don't have too much wasted material trying to figure it out I would appreciate it thanks.


i also would not rule out just messing up on this somehow. just wanting to try it again with less twists & wondering what the two numbers mean (.75 & .012) thank you.


----------



## automan26

.75 should give you a very nice twist ratio, but if you want fewer twists, .65 will work.

Automan


----------



## michaelgentry87

Think I'm a make some jig post 
.250 wall 2" x 3/4 reducing swage
Gonna weld it to 1/2 plate base


----------



## hoppi84

My chinese braid spooling station... do you all do anything to the black and I'm guessing all the colors will prob rub off like the black?? Maybe wear a glove spooling it to clean it a bit??


----------



## tote

Finished my string jig today.

Cranking out my very first ever string.


----------



## soldier1265

I've got an odd question. How are you guys getting the strings to look glossy? Just waxing them?


----------



## Jramey

soldier1265 said:


> I've got an odd question. How are you guys getting the strings to look glossy? Just waxing them?


It's called burnishing the string, once you get your string laid up and ends served you then can burnish the individual colors by wrapping a scrap piece of material around it a few times and sliding it up and down the strands, it makes the strings nice and round and removes any excess wax. By having the different colors nice and round also helps when twisting the strings up, you don't get colors mixing up. After twisting and stretching you burnish the whole twisted string which helps produce a nice round string and also a shiny string. HTH


----------



## 2X_LUNG

bigdogjp said:


> i also would not rule out just messing up on this somehow. just wanting to try it again with less twists & wondering what the two numbers mean (.75 & .012) thank you.


Try this for layout post setting. Length x 1.014 for fury. 1.011 for x or 452x. 

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

Jramey said:


> It's called burnishing the string, once you get your string laid up and ends served you then can burnish the individual colors by wrapping a scrap piece of material around it a few times and sliding it up and down the strands, it makes the strings nice and round and removes any excess wax. By having the different colors nice and round also helps when twisting the strings up, you don't get colors mixing up. After twisting and stretching you burnish the whole twisted string which helps produce a nice round string and also a shiny string. HTH


This is 100% correct, but be careful that you don't fall into the trap that many of us have fallen into. Don't be afraid to apply firm tension to your burnishing thread, but don't go crazy-tight. Over burnishing can cause bumps to appear when the string tension is relaxed. If you burnish at moderate tension-somewhere around 200#--you will be safer. If you see those nasty bumps appearing you can be sure that you burnished to heavily. The bumps have no affect on string performance, they just look nasty.

Automan


----------



## soldier1265

I've been burnishing. Just real lightly. Never had them finish glossy like that. Maybe I need to apply a little more tension.


----------



## BlindBuck

bigdogjp said:


> i also would not rule out just messing up on this somehow. just wanting to try it again with less twists & wondering what the two numbers mean (.75 & .012) thank you.


My formula is slightly different than a few others on here, however that is because I shoot for one full twist for every one and half inches (1.5" s or slightly less example 1 3/8"s). I do this by dividing finished length of string by 1.5 which equals number of twists. Because of this my layout is shorter than the other formulas. If you wanted to use one twist for every 1.5"s of string you could also multiple by .66666. From your prior post about your success with Fury I would think you would lessen your initial post layout by 1/8". It really all comes down to your technique and process. Everyone builds slightly different. As suggested previously in this thread it is best to make a few test strings to nail down your formula. I recently started building with Fury and prior to making a set for my bow I made 35", 45" and 65" strings to get a feel for how the material acted as compared to 452x. 

This is by far the best thread I've ever read on string building. It has some great string builders sharing all of their knowledge for all and is truly refreshing to see.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jramey

I also use length/1.5 for my twist count , it always puts me within 1-2 twists of my desired length


----------



## Huntinsker

soldier1265 said:


> I've been burnishing. Just real lightly. Never had them finish glossy like that. Maybe I need to apply a little more tension.


Just make sure you don't over burnish and damage fibers. If you do a quick "dewax" of each color and then burnish the whole bundle, they should look shiny when you take a picture with a flash.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Finished product









Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## automan26

2X_LUNG said:


> Finished product
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Those are some sweeeet threads. I honestly can't think of any top builder who would not be proud to sign his name to something of that quality. You can't just go shoot them; you have to take them to the range and strut them around a bit. Excellent work my friend.

Automan


----------



## Kaveman44

2x_LUNG what did you use for serving at your roller guards?


----------



## bigdogjp

BlindBuck said:


> My formula is slightly different than a few others on here, however that is because I shoot for one full twist for every one and half inches (1.5" s or slightly less example 1 3/8"s). I do this by dividing finished length of string by 1.5 which equals number of twists. Because of this my layout is shorter than the other formulas. If you wanted to use one twist for every 1.5"s of string you could also multiple by .66666. From your prior post about your success with Fury I would think you would lessen your initial post layout by 1/8". It really all comes down to your technique and process. Everyone builds slightly different. As suggested previously in this thread it is best to make a few test strings to nail down your formula. I recently started building with Fury and prior to making a set for my bow I made 35", 45" and 65" strings to get a feel for how the material acted as compared to 452x.
> 
> This is by far the best thread I've ever read on string building. It has some great string builders sharing all of their knowledge for all and is truly refreshing to see.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


thank you for your reply. ive been rereading from the beginning again & picking up on alot of the things that went over my head the first time through. i think i understand that the .75 is the amount of a revolution per inch of finished string. so in my head the string twists 3/4 of a full revolution per inch. so to make a full revolution or twist would take up 1.33'' of string. now on to the second number. the number i used was .012 is this the amount of length that the string shortens per twist? in my original question i didnt understand if a bigger number .85 or a smaller number .65 would give more or less twists, now i know smaller .65 = less twist. however still dont understand the .012 number & what it represents. if its not too hard please help me understand. thanks


----------



## hoppi84

Little different alternating pin... got a set of black limbs coming!!


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Kaveman44 said:


> 2x_LUNG what did you use for serving at your roller guards?


That's 30# Chinese braid

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## 2X_LUNG

automan26 said:


> Those are some sweeeet threads. I honestly can't think of any top builder who would not be proud to sign his name to something of that quality. You can't just go shoot them; you have to take them to the range and strut them around a bit. Excellent work my friend.
> 
> Automan


It's all a result of your expertise and help!!!! Thanks much!

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

hoppi84 said:


> Little different alternating pin... got a set of black limbs coming!!


I love those colors together. I can see now that I am going to have to invest in some of that tan material. Those threads will really pop against the black limbs you have coming. When you get everything assembled I hope you can show us some pics.

Automan


----------



## wolfkill65

I'm so glad I found this forum... my weekends are going to be extra busy with lots of DIY projects. the wife will not be pleased


----------



## automan26

tote said:


> Finished my string jig today.
> 
> Cranking out my very first ever string.
> 
> View attachment 3603609
> 
> 
> View attachment 3603617
> 
> 
> View attachment 3603633


That is a well-built setup. You should be proud. I am sure that you can crank out some righteous threads on that puppy.

Automan


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## Kaveman44

2X_LUNG said:


> That's 30# Chinese braid
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


what size halo compares to the 30# chinese fishing line


----------



## bowshooter73

30# should fall just shy of .014 halo.


----------



## Huntinsker

bigdogjp said:


> thank you for your reply. ive been rereading from the beginning again & picking up on alot of the things that went over my head the first time through. i think i understand that the .75 is the amount of a revolution per inch of finished string. so in my head the string twists 3/4 of a full revolution per inch. so to make a full revolution or twist would take up 1.33'' of string. now on to the second number.* the number i used was .012 is this the amount of length that the string shortens per twist*? in my original question i didnt understand if a bigger number .85 or a smaller number .65 would give more or less twists, now i know smaller .65 = less twist. however still dont understand the .012 number & what it represents. if its not too hard please help me understand. thanks


That's pretty much what it is. In reality, each twist you add to the string shortens the string slightly more than the one before. The higher the twist rate, the more change a single twist will make. You're able to adjust that number to make the formula work for each different material you use and to work with your particular build process and idiosyncrasies. In the example of the formula in the beginning of the thread, the .012 was just an arbitrary number for the example. You can and should find your own number. 

The .012 is some random number that's calculated in to find the additional length to add to the initial post setting for a particular material. You can change that number for each material you work with to be able to maintain your twist rate and compensate for the different creep characteristics of the material.


----------



## Kaveman44

so i just purchased a Hoyt defiant Turbo and am getting ready to make strings and was told hoyt cable guards are thin, will the .014 Halo fit as a serving through the cable guards? or should i use BCY Spectra 0.008


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> so i just purchased a Hoyt defiant Turbo and am getting ready to make strings and was told hoyt cable guards are thin, will the .014 Halo fit as a serving through the cable guards? or should i use BCY Spectra 0.008


I think you'd be fine with the .014 halo. If you look at the pics of the Defiant on their website, they run the control cable serving all the way down through the roller guard. I'm pretty sure they use a standard sized end serving like an .014 halo. I'm not sure if they use halo on their ends but it's some "standard" size serving so .014 halo should work.


----------



## Kaveman44

thanks , i also am hesitant to put new strings on it because the factory are really nice , way better than what came on my mathews


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> thanks , i also am hesitant to put new strings on it because the factory are really nice , way better than what came on my mathews


Tune the bow with the factory set and then build your own to the tuned lengths. Typically you'll need a shorter buss and a longer control than what Hoyt advertises or sends on their bows. That's why you see a lot of hoyts with way more twists in the buss cable than the control.


----------



## Kaveman44

perfect , i will let you know how it goes


----------



## jameswk

wow where has the time gone??? 150 pages!!!! Thats awesome! thanks to everyone for all youve done to help me and for helping others this thread is truly archers helping archers!


----------



## hoppi84

Hope to start serving later today but hears another peak of both cables with string... my phones been acting up not sure why last pic looked tan bit colors are dark brown and black with alt bright orange pin...


----------



## Kaveman44

Making a set for a guy that got ripped off by someone on here, I told him i need the practice so im making them for free


----------



## automan26

Those threads should put a smile on his face and if he likes them, maybe we can convince him to come over to our side and catch the fever himself.

Automan


----------



## B.Hunter

Very good looking sets being made by all you guys.


----------



## hoppi84

Finally finished her up!!


----------



## automan26

hoppi84 said:


> Finally finished her up!!


I absolutely love those colors!!!!!!! I can say honestly that those are the nicest threads I have ever laid my eyes on. Unfortunately for me, your threads are going to cost me. Lol I am going to have to get some of that brown and build some for myself.

What shade of brown did you use?


Automan


----------



## hoppi84

That's fury dark brown Automan... and i appreciate the fine words but it wouldn't been possible without this thread and all the people like yourself who've shared a bit of your knowledge which enables us all!!!


----------



## BlindBuck

So I started building with Fury a few weeks ago.(thanks 2X_Lung for getting me the material). The material is wonderful to build with and I think I have my formula nailed down. Yesterday morning while being snowed in I decided to run a bit of a test. I built one string and tensioned it up to 350#s I had to adjust the tension a few times within an hour. After that hour I left them on my tensioning head for almost twenty four hours. It barely lost any tension during that period if any at all. 

Is that what you guys are finding with Fury? Seems with my process an hour of tensioning should make the string/cable stable.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## Kaveman44

can the speed nocks be put on after you build a string, i have some on order and am in the middle of building a string, do they just slide over the end loop?


----------



## Jan Enthoven

Speed nocks are like metal nock point locators, you can crimp them over the string with a pair of nocking point pliers.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T110 met Tapatalk


----------



## hoppi84

Yes use cotter pin or bobby pin kaveman if talking about tpu speed sleeves...


----------



## Kaveman44

yes sir i am, thanks guys


----------



## automan26

I do two things with speed sleeves. 1. I have always believed they fit too tightly, so I slip them on an old string and run them up and down the served area to loosen them up a bit. 2. Liquid dish soap makes a great lube. Smear some on the loop and on the first part of the serving and the sleeves will go on a lot easier.

Automan


----------



## 2X_LUNG

BlindBuck said:


> So I started building with Fury a few weeks ago.(thanks 2X_Lung for getting me the material). The material is wonderful to build with and I think I have my formula nailed down. Yesterday morning while being snowed in I decided to run a bit of a test. I built one string and tensioned it up to 350#s I had to adjust the tension a few times within an hour. After that hour I left them on my tensioning head for almost twenty four hours. It barely lost any tension during that period if any at all.
> 
> Is that what you guys are finding with Fury? Seems with my process an hour of tensioning should make the string/cable stable.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Very welcome. I think you got er nailed! I like to let mine stretch a couple of hours! It'll be rock solid from that point on!

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kaveman44

might be a dumb question but can you actually let your string stretch too long, i left mine on the stretcher for a couple days and have not had the time to serve it, is it ok


----------



## nestly

I expect that 300 lbs is less than the peak force many bows exert on the string during a shot, so I would not expect any harm, but neither do I think there's any benefit to extended time on the stretcher.


----------



## automan26

Kaveman44 said:


> might be a dumb question but can you actually let your string stretch too long, i left mine on the stretcher for a couple days and have not had the time to serve it, is it ok


I have heard of guys who have stretched out a string and then forgot to get back to it for a couple weeks and everything worked out fine. I let my Fury strings stretch a couple hours and they seem to be stable by then. I think 1-2 hours should be sufficient, especially since the string will also be stretching while you are serving it up. I have never heard even a hint that there is a maximum stretching time for strings when they are in the ballpark of 300#

Automan


----------



## lunghit

hoppi84 said:


> That's fury dark brown Automan... and i appreciate the fine words but it wouldn't been possible without this thread and all the people like yourself who've shared a bit of your knowledge which enables us all!!!


Just ordered some dark brown BCY X. Going to make this same set for my Bowtech Experience. One of the best combos I have seen.


----------



## BlindBuck

2X_LUNG said:


> Very welcome. I think you got er nailed! I like to let mine stretch a couple of hours! It'll be rock solid from that point on!
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the reply have another cable on my tensioning head as I type this. Actually timing this one to see how long it takes till it settles in. Then from here on out I can just go back to using my QS-350. Love those things set the psi and walk away. 

Been thinking about this stretch time with Fury and was wondering if I'm seeing a little faster of a stretch due to the fact I use less twists per inch than most? All most all of the formulas I've seen referenced are 1 twist for every 1.25"-1.33"s and I run 1.5"s.



Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2X_LUNG

I bet that's correct. I twist mine up a tad tighter. The qs350 is awesome no doubt. Let me know your findings

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## BlindBuck

2X_LUNG said:


> I bet that's correct. I twist mine up a tad tighter. The qs350 is awesome no doubt. Let me know your findings
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


63 minutes was my last adjustment. Left it tension for three more hours just to make sure. Almost has to be the twist per inch ratio I use. Unless different colors stretch differently(which I doubt, I used med brown and gray for this test). Only real complaint(very minor) I have is the gray for whatever reason has loads of wax compared to black, med brown and white.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## jameswk

here is another combo this was taken before burnishing obviously but still one nice looking combo


----------



## lunghit

My latest build with my favorite combo. Sunset orange and silver with a black pin. This is on my new Obsession M7 with Predator fall gray camo.


----------



## Kaveman44

lunghit said:


> My latest build with my favorite combo. Sunset orange and silver with a black pin. This is on my new Obsession M7 with Predator fall gray camo.
> 
> 
> 
> what speed sleves are those ?


----------



## lunghit

Those are brass nocks with orange peep tubing over them.


----------



## automan26

lunghit said:


> Those are brass nocks with orange peep tubing over them.


That looks really nice.

Automan


----------



## Telluarcher

After reading through most of this thread, I ordered one of Munchs's jigs today. I think I have the string material pretty well figured out, and was just curious as to the serving thread. All kinds of diameters and materials seem to be available. I tied flies for flyfishing commercially for years, so am used to all kinds of different thread diameters and breaking strengths, but my spools were only costing me $1.50 on average or so. I am having a hard time justifying buying them all just to figure out which ones I like at $20+ per spool, so I would like to read some thoughts on 3 or 4 to get going. The strings will initially be for compound only. Both single and dual cam. 
I apologize ahead of time if this has already been answered here, but it seems like I only saw partial answers to the information I am looking for. Basically, I guess my question would be this.

What 2 or 3 or 4 different serving threads would you consider essential and why?


----------



## Jramey

Man lunghit, those are freaking awesome looking threads on that bow. Need to pick me up some silver now.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

lunghit said:


> My latest build with my favorite combo. Sunset orange and silver with a black pin. This is on my new Obsession M7 with Predator fall gray camo.


Nailed it. Beautiful laces! 

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

Telluarcher said:


> After reading through most of this thread, I ordered one of Munchs's jigs today. I think I have the string material pretty well figured out, and was just curious as to the serving thread. All kinds of diameters and materials seem to be available. I tied flies for flyfishing commercially for years, so am used to all kinds of different thread diameters and breaking strengths, but my spools were only costing me $1.50 on average or so. I am having a hard time justifying buying them all just to figure out which ones I like at $20+ per spool, so I would like to read some thoughts on 3 or 4 to get going. The strings will initially be for compound only. Both single and dual cam.
> I apologize ahead of time if this has already been answered here, but it seems like I only saw partial answers to the information I am looking for. Basically, I guess my question would be this.
> 
> What 2 or 3 or 4 different serving threads would you consider essential and why?


I use a lot of BCY 3D for my end servings. It is a safe standby that works well and it comes in colors. There are a number of different center servings that work well. BCY 62XS or Powergrip are both safe materials for almost any application. Sizes vary from .018, .021, and .025. I have always kept with .018 and .021. This is where personal preference comes into play. Strand count and nock fit will determine the size of the material you will use.

For my end serving I have gone almost exclusively with Spectra Extreme Braid (Chinese) fishing line. Do a search for Spectra Extreme Braid on EBAY. I personally like the 40# and 50# fishing line. I tried 60# but was a bit too thick for my liking. The great thing about the Chinese material is that it works very well and it is really priced right. BCY 3D and the Chinese fishing line are nearly identical, but the fishing line hits the wallet a lot softer.

One could write a book about all the variations in serving thread but I think the material I have suggested would be a safe place to start. I am sure that others will chime in and give you some good advice as well. Personal preference is what counts and you will quickly get a feel for what suits you best.

Automan


----------



## retrieverfishin

I would just go with the best right off the bat for serving material. Hard to beat .014 halo for end servings. .021 powergrip or 62xs is a great all purpose center serving. 

The Chinese spectra is an inferior material that will wear much quicker than the halo. Especially on a buss cable or any bow that has extreme bends. Even if you pay $25 for a spool of serving you are going to get on average 3 sets off of it. Works out to $8/set for the best. Seems like a no brainer to me.


----------



## cstone4985

Made my first string set over the past week. Really appreciate this forum. I'd like to thank breathn huntinske, automan, 2x lung, Ray knight and Everyone that's helped out in the forum. I read every post before deciding I could make a string set. I still got somethings to clean up but I e caught the fever as they say. Lol

http://rs1104.pbsrc.com/albums/h331...s/image_zps44wyqfbg.jpeg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip


----------



## Telluarcher

Thanks for replies Automan and Retriever and anyone else that post's up. I don't mind paying a price, I just did not want to have to pay it 10x over to figure it out if I did not have to.


----------



## Huntinsker

Telluarcher said:


> Thanks for replies Automan and Retriever and anyone else that post's up. I don't mind paying a price, I just did not want to have to pay it 10x over to figure it out if I did not have to.


I like .014 Halo for end serving, especially on cables. It lasts longer in high stress areas and holds better around tight turns. For center serving, I've found .018" BCY Powergrip to be the best that I've used. I have used a lot of .021" 62xs for centers but it didn't hold as well on my Fury strings.


----------



## lunghit

I'm another fan of Halo on end cables. I also use powergrip for center servings.


----------



## lunghit

Jramey said:


> Man lunghit, those are freaking awesome looking threads on that bow. Need to pick me up some silver now.





2X_LUNG said:


> Nailed it. Beautiful laces!
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Thanks fellas. Appreciate the compliments.


----------



## BlindBuck

Telluarcher said:


> Thanks for replies Automan and Retriever and anyone else that post's up. I don't mind paying a price, I just did not want to have to pay it 10x over to figure it out if I did not have to.


Halo .014 for all end servings and string stops. Powergrip .018/.021 for all center servings. Playing with different materials now for making served loops. I am not real happy with anything I've tried so far for that purpose. 

I do have leftover 3d, 62xs and NO 62 from years past just never use them for anything anymore.


----------



## tenzing

lunghit said:


> Thanks fellas. Appreciate the compliments.


Sir is there any particular size for peep tubing? Any particular store we can buy online? Do you just heat it with a lighter to shrink it?


----------



## skynight

BlindBuck said:


> Halo .014 for all end servings and string stops. Powergrip .018/.021 for all center servings. Playing with different materials now for making served loops. I am not real happy with anything I've tried so far for that purpose.
> 
> I do have leftover 3d, 62xs and NO 62 from years past just never use them for anything anymore.


Try the 15# white Chinese 8 strand spectra for loops.
The 10# is nicer but I had durability issues.


----------



## lunghit

tenzing said:


> Sir is there any particular size for peep tubing? Any particular store we can buy online? Do you just heat it with a lighter to shrink it?


No heating at all. I lube the end loops and nocks with a very light coating of liquid dish soap and slide it on. I use the cotter pin method to get it started on the end loop. And this is the peep tubing I used:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281222425697?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## BlindBuck

skynight said:


> Try the 15# white Chinese 8 strand spectra for loops.
> The 10# is nicer but I had durability issues.


Thanks for the tip. 

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## 2X_LUNG

My Police edition defiant. 








Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## lunghit

Very nice 2X!! Looks great


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## lunghit

For guys that do both tag ends and served ends what do you think holds up better to the abuse of installing those tight speed nocks such as TPU? Will one be less prone to serving separation?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Use dura grip and served loops do best

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## Kaveman44

2X_LUNG said:


> My Police edition defiant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


im getting ready to make a string for my Defiant turbo what did you use for string ends and center serving


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## skynight

lunghit said:


> For guys that do both tag ends and served ends what do you think holds up better to the abuse of installing those tight speed nocks such as TPU? Will one be less prone to serving separation?


Personally I had terrible luck with the TPU speed sleeves. Had to serve them in place because they kept slipping, hated them. Went back to metal nocks. And I did get a tiny separation on the loop (served) from installing them.


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## tenzing

It would be great if someone would show step by step how to do served end loops of the split buss cable. Most of us have been building with the tag end method as illustrated in the begining of the thread. Would love to try the dura grip but just don't know how to do a buss cable.


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## nestly

skynight said:


> Personally I had terrible luck with the TPU speed sleeves. Had to serve them in place because they kept slipping, hated them...


Same here. I use Pine Ridge Nitro Button XL or just stack up regular eliminator buttons.


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## 2X_LUNG

Kaveman44 said:


> im getting ready to make a string for my Defiant turbo what did you use for string ends and center serving


I used halo and power grip center

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## skynight

tenzing said:


> It would be great if someone would show step by step how to do served end loops of the split buss cable. Most of us have been building with the tag end method as illustrated in the begining of the thread. Would love to try the dura grip but just don't know how to do a buss cable.


I don't have pics but here is my personal instruction set for use on a 3 post jig. This is for a 1 or 2 color buss cable, I don't know a thing about pin stripes.

Split Yoke
Start tag close post 6 wraps, end far post. Serve yoke loop 150# 2.5”. Backserve left tag.
Remove first color from jig.
Repeat with second color.
Place both colors on jig with yoke loops on tensioner wrap remaining tags and tie off on tensioner post studs.
Serve cam loop 1 ¾” @ 200#.
Straighten posts and overserve/backserve remaining tags on each color individually to close yoke loop.
End serve each yoke loop with halo 2.5” to cover string tags 150#.
Stretch at 300# for 30 mins.
Install string seperators 200#.
Burnish, twist at 200#, burnish at 300#.
Split yoke serving 7.5” below tensioner post for 2” 
No tension, hold yoke serving and untwist each yoke. 8 twists back in each yoke.


----------



## BlindBuck

So I've been playing around with served end loops and also weaved end loops for something different compared to my standard tag ends I've always done. Since I haven't found a "perfect" material for "me" for served end loops I think I am going to build a complete set using weaved end loops. Have any of you ever tried or done this? Pros and Cons would be appreciated. Attached is a picture of my first test run using my leftover 452X below. I think they will get much better on my next run especially using Fury. This was more of a quick test to see how a weaved end loop would turn out.


----------



## tenzing

skynight said:


> I don't have pics but here is my personal instruction set for use on a 3 post jig. This is for a 1 or 2 color buss cable, I don't know a thing about pin stripes.
> 
> Split Yoke
> Start tag close post 6 wraps, end far post. Serve yoke loop 150# 2.5”. Backserve left tag.
> Remove first color from jig.
> Repeat with second color.
> Place both colors on jig with yoke loops on tensioner wrap remaining tags and tie off on tensioner post studs.
> Serve cam loop 1 ¾” @ 200#.
> Straighten posts and overserve/backserve remaining tags on each color individually to close yoke loop.
> End serve each yoke loop with halo 2.5” to cover string tags 150#.
> Stretch at 300# for 30 mins.
> Install string seperators 200#.
> Burnish, twist at 200#, burnish at 300#.
> Split yoke serving 7.5” below tensioner post for 2”
> No tension, hold yoke serving and untwist each yoke. 8 twists back in each yoke.


Thank you sir.


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## Huntinsker

BlindBuck said:


> So I've been playing around with served end loops and also weaved end loops for something different compared to my standard tag ends I've always done. Since I haven't found a "perfect" material for "me" for served end loops I think I am going to build a complete set using weaved end loops. Have any of you ever tried or done this? Pros and Cons would be appreciated. Attached is a picture of my first test run using my leftover 452X below. I think they will get much better on my next run especially using Fury. This was more of a quick test to see how a weaved end loop would turn out.
> 
> View attachment 3707257


I have no idea what you mean by weaved loops. Did you finish 2 loops separately and then serve one single end serving over them? I imagine that wouldn't fit very well on some cam loop posts.


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## BlindBuck

Huntinsker said:


> I have no idea what you mean by weaved loops. Did you finish 2 loops separately and then serve one single end serving over them? I imagine that wouldn't fit very well on some cam loop posts.


No, I used the tag ends and rather than wrapping them like I've been doing for years I just weaved them in. I unfortunately only have Prime PC Cams and Obsession KS Cams to test with and they fit over nicely. Wasn't sure if anyone has ever done an end loop this way before and might be able to tell me their experience with it.


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## skynight

tenzing said:


> Thank you sir.


Just noticed that I left out the final step of end serving the cam loop, but I think you would have noticed at that point. I do this before placing the split yoke serving. Also, since there are no tags at this end, I use a piece of bowstring material to temporarily tie the loop closed to facilitate the end serving. I remove this temporary tie after tying off the end serving.


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## Huntinsker

BlindBuck said:


> No, I used the tag ends and rather than wrapping them like I've been doing for years I just weaved them in. I unfortunately only have Prime PC Cams and Obsession KS Cams to test with and they fit over nicely. Wasn't sure if anyone has ever done an end loop this way before and might be able to tell me their experience with it.


I guess I'm still confused. I see 2 wrapped tag end loops with a single end serving. Where did you "just weave them in"?


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## skynight

skynight said:


> Just noticed that I left out the final step of end serving the cam loop, but I think you would have noticed at that point. I do this before placing the split yoke serving. Also, since there are no tags at this end, I use a piece of bowstring material to temporarily tie the loop closed to facilitate the end serving. I remove this temporary tie after tying off the end serving.


The end serving is applied at 300# tension and I use the string clamps when serving.


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## BlindBuck

Huntinsker said:


> I guess I'm still confused. I see 2 wrapped tag end loops with a single end serving. Where did you "just weave them in"?


I think it is my explanation that is lacking.

Two bundles, two different colors equaling a 24 strand string of 452x. My two tag ends I just weaved between the two bundles(interlocking them together with the weave) rather than wrapping them around the two bundles like traditional tag ends. So from that picture it might appear as if they are two separate wrapped tag end loops, however they're interlocked(weaved) together. Does that make sense as to what I did?


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## Huntinsker

BlindBuck said:


> I think it is my explanation that is lacking.
> 
> Two bundles, two different colors equaling a 24 strand string of 452x. My two tag ends I just weaved between the two bundles(interlocking them together with the weave) rather than wrapping them around the two bundles like traditional tag ends. So from that picture it might appear as if they are two separate wrapped tag end loops, however they're interlocked(weaved) together. Does that make sense as to what I did?


I think I get it. You go cross them between the two color bundles in an "X" pattern or kind of a figure 8 around the bundles. The "X" of the material between the bundles keeps them separated. I've never seen that before nor have I ever thought of doing it. It's inventive but I think having a nice round loop to fit the concave shape of the loop posts on the cam would be better. Especially if you get some tight posts with sharp edges like some Mathews cams. They'd just fit nicer.


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## SamT

BlindBuck said:


> Does that make sense as to what I did?


Also a bit confused about how, and why, you did it this way unless you were just trying to create a different effect. Not sure how well the "two-bundle" loop would form fit onto a cam posts.

It does look interesting though.


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## SamT

huntinsker said:


> ... It's inventive but i think having a nice round loop to fit the concave shape of the loop posts on the cam would be better. Especially if you get some tight posts with sharp edges like some mathews cams. They'd just fit nicer.


x2.


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## BlindBuck

Huntinsker said:


> I think I get it. You go cross them between the two color bundles in an "X" pattern or kind of a figure 8 around the bundles. The "X" of the material between the bundles keeps them separated. I've never seen that before nor have I ever thought of doing it. It's inventive but I think having a nice round loop to fit the concave shape of the loop posts on the cam would be better. Especially if you get some tight posts with sharp edges like some Mathews cams. They'd just fit nicer.


That is exactly what I did. I wanted to do something different as compared to my normal tag end method. I am pretty sure doing the tags in this fashion almost eliminates any concern of them ever moving.(Not that I had that issue prior ever before anyway.lol) Pretty much comes down to wanting to try something different and thought about dong this. Figured I'd see if anyone else on this kicka55 thread ever tried it. Yeah I agree with tight posts, sharp edges and the like. Once I do a complete setup this way and not just a mock-up trying to see how it worked I'll post some pics with them installed on the posts. 



SamT said:


> It appears you must have put all of tag ends of both bundles down on the same end. If so, what did you do at the other end? Or did you do four 6-loop bundles so you could have 4 tag-ends at each end? ...Or, did you weave just two tag-ends on one side of the loop and continue to weave them all the way around to the other side of the loop?
> 
> 
> 
> Also a bit confused about how, and why, you did it this way unless you were just trying to create a different effect. Not sure how well the "two-bundle" loop would form fit onto a cam posts.
> 
> It does look interesting though.


No, two tags on each end jig. Rather than doing a traditional tag end wrap I did as "Huntinsker" previously explained better than myself above. The width of the bundle is slightly wider than a normal served or tag end loop but not by much. It actually gives a flatter inside to the loop to go/hold against the post. It is the length/depth of the post that might make this method not universal though.

Love trying things that different and creating a different effect.


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## automan26

I would like to see the finished product. I think it looks very interesting.

Automan


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## SamT

BlindBuck, you asked if anyone had ever used this "weave" method. I haven't personally, but nearly a couple of years ago when I first started learning how to make my own strings, I took apart an old factory string and they had used a weave method to tie the two tags together for about an 1/4" before serving over the entire thing with the loop serving. They kinda, crossed the two tag ends, did a couple of figure-8 weaves with each tag, then re-crossed the tags again, then did all of this again several times. 

Here's a pic I took of the "knot".


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## 302jarvis

Can someone explain how to do a pin stripe on a bus cable. On the string I used 11 strands green 2 strands black 11 strands silver for a total of 24 strands bcyx. This is my first attempt at pin stripe and it turned out great


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## Jramey

302jarvis said:


> Can someone explain how to do a pin stripe on a bus cable. On the string I used 11 strands green 2 strands black 11 strands silver for a total of 24 strands bcyx. This is my first attempt at pin stripe and it turned out great]


 I think the easiest way to do them with a pin would be double your length and lay it up with half the strand count. So say you buss cable is 50", then you would set your posts to double the length your formula gives you for post settings so we will say double 50" to 100". Then your layout will be only half the strand count so for 24 strands you'd only lay out 5 one color 2 for pin and 5 the other. 

Tag end serve the two ends like normal. Now take your string off after letting it tension for a few minutes sto equalize the strands and fold the string in half, putting the two served ends on one post. Now you have a 24 strand string 50" long. Serve the end for the cam. Separate colors and burnish individual colors, twist to desired twist rate, burnish whole string and serve. After the cam end serving and the Y serving remove tension and remove one leg and tighten back up and serve remaining leg to the loop (or away however you do it) repeat for other leg. After the second one is done then put both legs back on and tension again to reequalize the strands. Then you are done. 

Note: if you do it this way be sure to add 1/8 inch extra on the initial setting to accommodate the extra cam loop you add in. Hope this all makes sense.


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## Telluarcher

Have any of you ever tried using fishing leader sleeves? They are made of either brass or aluminum. Here is a link to what I am talking about if the photo does not upload. http://www.cabelas.com/product/fish.../Ne-1000004612?WTz_st=GuidedNav&WTz_stype=GNU I have no idea how much they weigh. I am ordering some to try, and will weigh the two sizes I am ordering and report. They are on sale right now as well ($5.88/100) and come in a .106 i.d.


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## Telluarcher

Thinking of using them as speed nocks


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## 302jarvis

Ok thanks . But that will give me 4 strands of black for my pin. Where I only used 2 strands in the string and the control cable


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## skynight

Telluarcher said:


> Thinking of using them as speed nocks


Do they crimp on? How are you planning to attach them?

I just went to ebay and bought a bunch of brass nocks.
Then I figured out I can just take them off the old string and reuse them. Yep, I'm that uh, er, frugal.


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## CFonville

302jarvis said:


> Ok thanks . But that will give me 4 strands of black for my pin. Where I only used 2 strands in the string and the control cable


Since you used an odd number for your silver and green, and obviously 11/2 is not a whole number, your yolk cables cannot have the same color ratios as your string. Using the scheme Jramey laid out above, you could do 5 green, 5 silver and 1 black, but I'm sure using just one strand is not advisable as far as tensile strength goes, so it would be more of a show piece. Someone else with more experience would have to reference for whether or not it would loosen or wear faster. I personally, given your situation, might do 6 silver, 5 green and 1 black, just to make sure the structure of the cable did not suffer (if you're shooting a 70# bow, else you could stick w/ 22 strand)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Telluarcher

skynight said:


> Do they crimp on? How are you planning to attach them?
> 
> I just went to ebay and bought a bunch of brass nocks.
> Then I figured out I can just take them off the old string and reuse them. Yep, I'm that uh, er, frugal.


They will slide on like the synthetic "nocks". Yes they can be crimped on (might require a heavier crimping tool than an el cheapo one). I will cover with peep tubing. I really like the idea of them not being able to come off the string.


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## Huntinsker

Telluarcher said:


> They will slide on like the synthetic "nocks". Yes they can be crimped on (might require a heavier crimping tool than an el cheapo one). I will cover with peep tubing. I really like the idea of them not being able to come off the string.


I think it would be difficult to slide them over the string loop since they are rigid and unable to stretch.


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## Hoosierbow20

I made my first bowstring and i see that you served the tag ends so i tried it , my string is supposed to be 61 3/16" so i set it up to the lenth of 61.5" ran two colors so each end of one color was at one end of the jig and the other color at the other end. I served the tag ends down each side of the string and had an open loop at this point I began the stretching method at a couple hundred pounds i measured and my string was almost 62" long , so how much creep should i be getting is this normal or am getting slippage from tag ends or should i serve up the loop first before stetching?


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## 2X_LUNG

Figured I'd share some loops made with Brownell's dura grip. It's great stuff if you haven't tried it yet!!


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## michaelgentry87

Looks good 2x

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## retrieverfishin

Hoosierbow20 said:


> I made my first bowstring and i see that you served the tag ends so i tried it , my string is supposed to be 61 3/16" so i set it up to the lenth of 61.5" ran two colors so each end of one color was at one end of the jig and the other color at the other end. I served the tag ends down each side of the string and had an open loop at this point I began the stretching method at a couple hundred pounds i measured and my string was almost 62" long , so how much creep should i be getting is this normal or am getting slippage from tag ends or should i serve up the loop first before stetching?


Sounds about normal. Twist to length from there....


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## BlindBuck

2X_LUNG said:


> Figured I'd share some loops made with Brownell's dura grip. It's great stuff if you haven't tried it yet!!


Dang those do look perfect. Excellent job! 

I can't find any specifics on dura grip like diameter, breaking strength, spool size, colors available, price. Can you provide me any of that info?


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## 2X_LUNG

It's close to .007. 125 yds and its about $37 shipped. It's pricey

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## Kaveman44

2X_LUNG said:


> I used halo and power grip center
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


.014 halo


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## 2X_LUNG

Kaveman44 said:


> .014 halo


Yep!

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Hoosierbow20 said:


> I made my first bowstring and i see that you served the tag ends so i tried it , my string is supposed to be 61 3/16" so i set it up to the lenth of 61.5" ran two colors so each end of one color was at one end of the jig and the other color at the other end. I served the tag ends down each side of the string and had an open loop at this point I began the stretching method at a couple hundred pounds i measured and my string was almost 62" long , so how much creep should i be getting is this normal or am getting slippage from tag ends or should i serve up the loop first before stetching?


Did you twist the string or just stretch it without twisting? If you twisted it, no that's not normal at all. Your string should never be longer than the initial post setting after twisting. If it is, you've done something wrong. Either you've measured incorrectly and looked at the wrong number on the tape and you actually set it to 62.5" or you're getting slippage. Out of curiosity, what material are you using?


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## tenzing

2X_LUNG said:


> Figured I'd share some loops made with Brownell's dura grip. It's great stuff if you haven't tried it yet!!


2X that's awesome. When do you do the serving just below the loop of the split buss cable (as show in the picture). Do you serve after you done with twisting or before you twist? And how tight do you serve the loop.


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## 2X_LUNG

tenzing said:


> 2X that's awesome. When do you do the serving just below the loop of the split buss cable (as show in the picture). Do you serve after you done with twisting or before you twist? And how tight do you serve the loop.


I serve mine very last. After all serving is completed. 

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## RobColella

hoppi84 said:


> Finally finished her up!!


Awesome threads!!!! As others have stated, great color combo. I have some of the same colors sitting in the garage and going to give this combo a go. What is the strand count for each color you used. It looks like a yellow pin with even counts for the other colors, but then again they all look equal, too.


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## RobColella

2X_LUNG said:


> Figured I'd share some loops made with Brownell's dura grip. It's great stuff if you haven't tried it yet!!


Great loops. What set up are you using to serve your loops? Three or four post??? A picture would be great, as well.

Thanks, 

Rob


----------



## Purka

BlindBuck said:


> So I've been playing around with served end loops and also weaved end loops for something different compared to my standard tag ends I've always done. Since I haven't found a "perfect" material for "me" for served end loops I think I am going to build a complete set using weaved end loops. Have any of you ever tried or done this? Pros and Cons would be appreciated. Attached is a picture of my first test run using my leftover 452X below. I think they will get much better on my next run especially using Fury. This was more of a quick test to see how a weaved end loop would turn out.
> 
> View attachment 3707257


This is an old photo on how I used to end my Loops, Is this the sort of weave you do on the loops ?


----------



## Hoosierbow20

I am using brownell fury 28 strands and I did strectch it first before twisting, if I am making a string of 61 3/16 long I would give it .008 x the lenth, then it would shorten up on serving loop ends and in the twists.


----------



## Hoosierbow20

Purka said:


> This is an old photo on how I used to end my Loops, Is this the sort of weave you do on the loops ?


you closed the loop ends prior to strecthing?


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## Hoosierbow20

Huntinsker said:


> Did you twist the string or just stretch it without twisting? If you twisted it, no that's not normal at all. Your string should never be longer than the initial post setting after twisting. If it is, you've done something wrong. Either you've measured incorrectly and looked at the wrong number on the tape and you actually set it to 62.5" or you're getting slippage. Out of curiosity, what material are you using?


Using Fury material and yes I did stretch without twisting first, so on a 61 3/16 string should i give 1/2' longer for the loop ends and twisting another question on end loops , if i serve up the tag ends as my finished end loops can i leave them open ( serving down each side) or on one side serve in both sides and close the loop then after stretching serve over with serving matrerial?


----------



## piroguejoe

built my first string last night with the help of this thread. Only built the string as I was scared of how it would turn out lol. I will be putting my cables together tonight. It has to be the prettiest string I've ever seen. Smooth as glass and zero peep movement after about 50 shots this am. My end loops look ok but hopefully will improve with time to look more like some of the first class work I'm seeing on here. Just wanna say thanks for all the good info in this thread!

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## Jramey

Set I just finished for a guy


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## Purka

Hoosierbow20 said:


> you closed the loop ends prior to strecthing?


I used to close the loops before stretching and twisting.


----------



## automan26

Jramey said:


> Set I just finished for a guy


Those should put a smile on his face. Great Job!!!

Automan


----------



## BlindBuck

Purka said:


> This is an old photo on how I used to end my Loops, Is this the sort of weave you do on the loops ?


That appears to be similar. Below is a photo of what I am doing that should better show this idea for a different style of loop. You can see from it the width does not increase that much(if you look at the tag wrapped portion against the post vs the weave), ignore my sloppy tag wrap serving as I did this very fast to show the differences (also that is not how I am finishing off the weave with the tag end, just did that for the picture to get the tag out of the way). I will post up pictures and better explanation as to how I am doing this along with the results once I have time to complete a harness.


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## hoppi84

My take on bowfitters tyga stripe... think it'll come out nicer once i get another solid color used dark brown,black and doubled up orange...


----------



## Hannie

goog stuff


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## Huntinsker

Hoosierbow20 said:


> Using Fury material and yes I did stretch without twisting first, so on a 61 3/16 string should i give 1/2' longer for the loop ends and twisting another question on end loops , if i serve up the tag ends as my finished end loops can i leave them open ( serving down each side) or on one side serve in both sides and close the loop then after stretching serve over with serving matrerial?


If it were me, I'd serve the loops the way you want and then secure the tag ends some how. I'd probably do a couple wraps and then back wrap so that they can't get pulled under the serving. It would also double as a "ramp" down so the transition from serving to bare string would be smoother for when you serve over it with the end serving. Then once you've got the tag ends secured, tension the bundle up to 150-200lbs for 5 minutes to even the strand tension. That should be plenty. Then twist and stretch at whatever weight you prefer for a good hour or more. Fury takes longer to "bottom out" but once it's there, it won't budge again. 

Now, realize that I've not built with served loops yet because I haven't had time to make my 4 post jig, and no one's offered to donate one to me yet haha, so I'm not exactly an authority on the process. However, I think you should do well with that process or something similar. Whatever you do, secure the tag ends some how before you add any tension to the untwisted bundle.


----------



## Fiferguy

So here's a question. I built a jig, and made a set of strings. They work really well except for one small issue. I can't get the peep to line up straight back. I've twisted and twisted, and it seems to always return to the same place rotation-wise. It draws straight back--no rotation--but when I press it the bowstring seems to go crazy, and when I uncompress the limbs in the press, I have to shoot it a couple times for the peep to settle.

Any ideas? I was thinking I maybe wrapped my serving too tightly, or somehow got one backward?


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> So here's a question. I built a jig, and made a set of strings. They work really well except for one small issue. I can't get the peep to line up straight back. I've twisted and twisted, and it seems to always return to the same place rotation-wise. It draws straight back--no rotation--but when I press it the bowstring seems to go crazy, and when I uncompress the limbs in the press, I have to shoot it a couple times for the peep to settle.
> 
> Any ideas? I was thinking I maybe wrapped my serving too tightly, or somehow got one backward?


If your peep doesn't rotate when you draw the bow, then you don't have a problem. Unfortunately we can't always get our peep in the perfect position within the twist of the string to get it to sit straight forwards and straight backwards. My peep right now is like that. It doesn't rotate a bit when drawn but because of the height that I need it, it sits a little off at brace and I have my loop offset a few degrees to pull it straight when I draw. On my hunting bow, I got lucky and hit a sweet spot so that both my peep and loop are sitting facing the back with no offset. 

As far as the string needing to settle every time you press and unpress the bow, that's also fairly normal. Every time I make a change to my harnessing, whether it's for tuning or peep work, I always shoot it several times before seeing if the change worked the way I wanted it to. The string and cables will have to settle back into the cam tracks and adjust to their new twist rate. 

If I were you, I'd turn my loop a couple degrees off center so that the peep is straight when you draw. Shoot it like that for a couple hundred arrows and then if you still want to see if you can get it straight at brace, give it another try. At least then the string set will have totally settled out and you won't be fighting a settling string set. Nice job by the way on the string set! I bet they look great on that green bow :thumbs_up


----------



## Fiferguy

Thanks man. Yeah, they look pretty good, but I think the next time I do a set I'm going to use fluorescent colors. These are a little dark in room lighting, and I want them to really pop.

Gotta look good on the line, right? ;-)


----------



## lunghit

For the people that can't get the peep to line up perfectly I have a suggestion. Try the swapping strand method at the peep. It has worked perfectly for me on many bows and it's the only way I have found to fine tune your peep to line up straight back and with your D-loop.


----------



## lunghit

Fiferguy said:


> So here's a question. I built a jig, and made a set of strings. They work really well except for one small issue. I can't get the peep to line up straight back. I've twisted and twisted, and it seems to always return to the same place rotation-wise. It draws straight back--no rotation--but when I press it the bowstring seems to go crazy, and when I uncompress the limbs in the press, I have to shoot it a couple times for the peep to settle.
> 
> Any ideas? I was thinking I maybe wrapped my serving too tightly, or somehow got one backward?


What do you mean when you say the bowstring goes crazy when pressed? I wonder if you did serve in the wrong direction. The first string I ever made I served the wrong way and when I removed tension from the jig it also acted a little crazy and wanted to unwind.


----------



## Purka

If you want the peep to sit square move a few strands from the left over the peep to the right than the same number of strands from the right under the peep to the left or visa versa.
It will only disrupt the colours in the peep area which doesn't take it away from the string. do it on the press.


----------



## michaelgentry87

http://archeryreport.com/2012/02/properly-align-peep-sight-bowstring/

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## screamrider

First off, thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread, what an incredible resource!

I'm about to dive into string building and I'm looking for some advice on materials.

I'm using Fury for string material, but can't quite decide on serving. I'm currently leaning towards mini for end serving, and majesty .021 for center serving. Will these work well with Fury? Also, should I use the same serving for cables, or something different altogether?

Appreciate any help you can offer. I'm open to all opinions so please share your experiences with serving for Fury.


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## Hoosierbow20

Huntinsker said:


> If it were me, I'd serve the loops the way you want and then secure the tag ends some how. I'd probably do a couple wraps and then back wrap so that they can't get pulled under the serving. It would also double as a "ramp" down so the transition from serving to bare string would be smoother for when you serve over it with the end serving. Then once you've got the tag ends secured, tension the bundle up to 150-200lbs for 5 minutes to even the strand tension. That should be plenty. Then twist and stretch at whatever weight you prefer for a good hour or more. Fury takes longer to "bottom out" but once it's there, it won't budge again.
> 
> Now, realize that I've not built with served loops yet because I haven't had time to make my 4 post jig, and no one's offered to donate one to me yet haha, so I'm not exactly an authority on the process. However, I think you should do well with that process or something similar. Whatever you do, secure the tag ends some how before you add any tension to the untwisted bundle.


Thanks for the instruction I will get my jig set up and start building a set for my agenda 6


----------



## Hoosierbow20

lunghit said:


> What do you mean when you say the bowstring goes crazy when pressed? I wonder if you did serve in the wrong direction. The first string I ever made I served the wrong way and when I removed tension from the jig it also acted a little crazy and wanted to unwind.


they say serve the direction that you will twist. is this true I have not made it that far yet so i would like to know for sure?


----------



## tote

What might cause the lump in the 2nd pic?
In the first pic the string is under about 50 lbs stretch.
The second pic is fully relaxed.
I'm not worried about it because it will be under pressure on the bow, just wondering what might cause the lump in the string?
And I am diggin' the Chinese fishing line. 40lb test.


----------



## michaelgentry87

tote said:


> What might cause the lump in the 2nd pic?
> The first pic in the string under about 50 lbs stretch.
> The second pic is fully relaxed.
> I'm not worried about it, just wondering what might cause the lump in the string?
> And I am diggin' the Chinese fishing line. 40lb test.
> 
> View attachment 3761546
> 
> 
> View attachment 3761554
> 
> 
> View attachment 3761562


Overburnishing from my experience 

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## tote

michaelgentry87 said:


> Overburnishing from my experience
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


That is absolutely possible. :embara:
Thank you.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Don't be embarrassed lol we have all done it 

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## Huntinsker

Hoosierbow20 said:


> they say serve the direction that you will twist. is this true I have not made it that far yet so i would like to know for sure?


Check out page 111, post 2775 and then page 130, post 3244. nestly made some incredible videos showing the relationship between twisting a string and serving a string and what way is correct. When people say "serve in the direction you twist", that's open to interpretation and that's where it gets confused. The videos will help you see it which is the best way.


----------



## Hoosierbow20

Huntinsker said:


> Check out page 111, post 2775 and then page 130, post 3244. nestly made some incredible videos showing the relationship between twisting a string and serving a string and what way is correct. When people say "serve in the direction you twist", that's open to interpretation and that's where it gets confused. The videos will help you see it which is the best way.[/QUO
> 
> The whole page of 130 was very helpful Thanks again.


----------



## automan26

tote said:


> What might cause the lump in the 2nd pic?
> In the first pic the string is under about 50 lbs stretch.
> The second pic is fully relaxed.
> I'm not worried about it because it will be under pressure on the bow, just wondering what might cause the lump in the string?
> And I am diggin' the Chinese fishing line. 40lb test.
> 
> View attachment 3761546
> 
> 
> View attachment 3761554
> 
> 
> View attachment 3761562


I fought those nasty bumps for a long time until I learned to back off on the burnishing. I was burnishing after almost every phase of the build and I had a horrible case of the bumps. Now I hold off until I know I have my length where I want it and I burnish at around 200# instead of the 300#+ I was using. The bumps disappeared completely once I learned the problem. Like has already been stated--It has happened to us all at one point or another.

Automan


----------



## Mathews4ever

automan26 said:


> I fought those nasty bumps for a long time until I learned to back off on the burnishing. I was burnishing after almost every phase of the build and I had a horrible case of the bumps. Now I hold off until I know I have my length where I want it and I burnish at around 200# instead of the 300#+ I was using. The bumps disappeared completely once I learned the problem. Like has already been stated--It has happened to us all at one point or another.
> 
> Automan


Automan could you pm me please I had a couple questions for you I sent you a message but not sure you got it and I cannot seem to pm you

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## automan26

Mathews4ever said:


> Automan could you pm me please I had a couple questions for you I sent you a message but not sure you got it and I cannot seem to pm you
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


PM Sent

Automan


----------



## Mathews4ever

Thank you sir. I got them same ugly lumps on the string I just built I am gonna try burnishing les I do think they will go away when installed on the bow 

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## lunghit

automan26 said:


> I fought those nasty bumps for a long time until I learned to back off on the burnishing. I was burnishing after almost every phase of the build and I had a horrible case of the bumps. Now I hold off until I know I have my length where I want it and I burnish at around 200# instead of the 300#+ I was using. The bumps disappeared completely once I learned the problem. Like has already been stated--It has happened to us all at one point or another.
> 
> Automan


Do you burnish the string at all before twisting? I still get them from time to time so I might cut back on burnishing. I usually lay out my strands, make tag ends and then I burnish each individual color. Then give a quick stretch at 150 pounds for 20 min then twist and burnish again at 300 pounds. Maybe too much??


----------



## cstone4985

What do you guys do with the excess tag ends on served end loops. I've been putting in a whip stitch and serving over but I've notice the last string I did there were little gaps from where it transitioned from the served end loop to the whip stitch and then to the string. Is there something else I could do.


----------



## Mathews4ever

cstone4985 said:


> What do you guys do with the excess tag ends on served end loops. I've been putting in a whip stitch and serving over but I've notice the last string I did there were little gaps from where it transitioned from the served end loop to the whip stitch and then to the string. Is there something else I could do.


I run the tags through the middle of one color like 3 times then trim a lot of guys run through pull tight 3 times then 3 more and leave loose 

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## Hoosierbow20

making a jig


----------



## automan26

lunghit said:


> Do you burnish the string at all before twisting? I still get them from time to time so I might cut back on burnishing. I usually lay out my strands, make tag ends and then I burnish each individual color. Then give a quick stretch at 150 pounds for 20 min then twist and burnish again at 300 pounds. Maybe too much??


I lay out the bundles, serve the loops and then lightly strip the wax from each bundle. Next I add my twists and stretch to 300#. After the string has relaxed I check at 100# and make my final adjustments then stretch it back to around 200# and burnish lightly. Now I stretch to 300# and serve it up. Once I am convinced that the string is totally ready to put on the bow I give it one last moderate burnish at 300#. Moderation is the key. Heavy burnishing will lock the strands together very tightly and they have no place to move as the string contracts. This is what causes the bumps. Once the string is on the bow I sometimes burnish the fire out of it and make it look sweet. 

Automan


----------



## lunghit

Ok thanks automan I will give that a try!


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## johnl2015

Best guide to string making I have seen


----------



## 48archer

Your best bet is to buy material like 452x in low wax, I don't burnish until I am ready to serve the string and I only burnish the string where I will be serving.


----------



## automan26

lunghit said:


> Ok thanks automan I will give that a try!


Keep me posted on your results.

Automan


----------



## K.G.K.

I use the calculation formula to set my posts which seems to be 2/8"-3/8" longer than final desired length. I typically have to add 5-10 additional twist to the recommended number of twists to achieve proper length. Anyone else?

I too get lumps when the string is totally relaxed, but they go away at 100# tension and beyond. I don't seem to get any twist or creep once installed. 

Should I be doing anything differently? 

KGK


----------



## Mathews4ever

the lumps just started happening for me 

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## michaelgentry87

What are your post made from

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## Mathews4ever

michaelgentry87 said:


> What are your post made from
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


I am using a BAP jig

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> I use the calculation formula to set my posts which seems to be 2/8"-3/8" longer than final desired length. I typically have to add 5-10 additional twist to the recommended number of twists to achieve proper length. Anyone else?
> 
> I too get lumps when the string is totally relaxed, but they go away at 100# tension and beyond. I don't seem to get any twist or creep once installed.
> 
> Should I be doing anything differently?
> 
> KGK


You can adjust your formula to fit your build style. So say you're making a 90" string and using this formula.....(90 x .71) x .012 = 0.7668 + 90 = 90.7668" initial post setting. You could adjust the formula to use .010 instead of .012 so you would end up with 90.639" for the initial post setting.


----------



## K.G.K.

michaelgentry87 said:


> What are your post made from
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


Mine is the homemade jig from this forum.

KGK


----------



## michaelgentry87

I quoted the wrong post I am sorry that was mentioned for Hoosier with the four poster was just curious

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## Hoosierbow20

michaelgentry87 said:


> I quoted the wrong post I am sorry that was mentioned for Hoosier with the four poster was just curious
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


my posts are 6" x 1/2" bolts and 1/4" nuts welded on top with 1/4" x 3" bolts with the head cut off


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Pine ridge peep tubing...









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## BowBaker1640

sweeet lookin threads!


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## BlindBuck

The peep tubing looks really good. Nice threads too!

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## BowBaker1640

what material did you use?


----------



## 2X_LUNG

That's bcy X

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## Jramey

New set of threads I made for my Htx


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## Mathews4ever

what is the best serving for steep angles I know a lot of people are using Chinese fishing line I have used halo without a lot of success still separates on sharp angles especially on the elites where the cables wraps around the cam 

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## Huntinsker

Mathews4ever said:


> what is the best serving for steep angles I know a lot of people are using Chinese fishing line I have used halo without a lot of success still separates on sharp angles especially on the elites where the cables wraps around the cam
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


I've not tried it yet but Lancaster has some .014" BCY Powergrip. I know that stuff holds really well on center servings where I had some slipping with 62xs. I'd imagine that it would hold really well on sharp angles too.


----------



## automan26

Jramey said:


> New set of threads I made for my Htx


Very nice!!!! I put that exact color combo on my barber's bow and he was thrilled. You do understand that those threads won't perform properly until you take them somewhere where you can show them off. lol


Automan


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## automan26

*Real Men Aren't Afraid of Pink.*

I just finished these for the new black limbs I have on the way for my Sentinel. That 30# Berkeley Chrystal makes some awesome clear serving. Can you find it?

Automan


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## BlindBuck

Threads look great, and that serving is almost invisible. Let us know how that serving material holds up. 

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## K.G.K.

I just finished serving a beautiful string (orange / black with red pin). When I took it off the jig, it twisted and knotted up like crazy. I have never had this happen. I know I didn't serve in the wrong direction. Weird ... wont be able to use this one. 



KGK


----------



## lunghit

K.G.K. said:


> I just finished serving a beautiful string (orange / black with red pin). When I took it off the jig, it twisted and knotted up like crazy. I have never had this happen. I know I didn't serve in the wrong direction. Weird ... wont be able to use this one.
> 
> 
> KGK



Strange. The only time I ever had that happen was the first string I ever made and I served in the wrong direction.


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## K.G.K.

Lol, anything is possible. I was so excited about this string.






Starting over ... havent served the cables yet. Should still be good to go.

KGK


----------



## automan26

A friend of mine who is a pro builder had a string do that once. Even though the string was built correctly it became the most horrible, bumpy, wrinkled mess imaginable when the tension was relieved. As it turned out he had been shipped a bad spool of material. When he reported it to the company--(BCY I think) they made it right and sent him a new spool and the problem was solved.

Automan


----------



## Mathews4ever

automan26 said:


> A friend of mine who is a pro builder had a string do that once. Even though the string was built correctly it became the most horrible, bumpy, wrinkled mess imaginable when the tension was relieved. As it turned out he had been shipped a bad spool of material. When he reported it to the company--(BCY I think) they made it right and sent him a new spool and the problem was solved.
> 
> Automan


I wonder if that is what happened to me it does seem like the bunch of strings I built with one specific color seem to be the only ones doing that thanks automan

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## K.G.K.

Wow, it is a new spool. Ill try one more string and if it happens again Ill get a new spool.

KGK


----------



## lunghit

Interesting. Keep us posted on what happens.


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Wow, it is a new spool. Ill try one more string and if it happens again Ill get a new spool.
> 
> KGK


Take a scrap piece of the material from each of the spools that you used on that string and burn them. If they are the same materials, they should burn the same. If it's BCY X, about 93% of the fiber should burn faster than the other 17% of the fiber. If it's 452x, it should be the same but about 2/3 of the fiber would burn faster than the other 1/3 of the fiber. If it's an unblended material, it will burn at the same rate.


----------



## Mathews4ever

I never had a problem with my strings knotting like that before but lately they all seem to wanna bunch up when not under pressure I am wondering if it's from pulling tags too tight that's the only think I have been doing differently 

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## bowshooter73

3 little helpers. Should be up and running this weekend.


----------



## lunghit

Nice^^^^^ Please post pics when all set up.


----------



## BlindBuck

That's going to be excellent having three! Now that I've switched to Fury one Quick Stretch 350 is not cutting it.

Do you mind posting the part number / source where you got the cylinder from?

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## bowshooter73

Picked them up on eBay. Do a search for 63x100 air cylinder. These are 2 1/2" bore. About 82psi got me 400#


----------



## Mathews4ever

that's sweet I just put a new compression spring in my hand jig allows me like 430 450# 

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## K.G.K.

lunghit said:


> Interesting. Keep us posted on what happens.


Well, in my case I definitely had a brain freeze and served in the wrong direction. 

KGK


----------



## hoppi84

Something that helped me at first was mark your post a and b or 1 and 2 and arrow pointing whichever direction youd need to go to add twist to that post. Mine is a= stretcher and b= stretching post... i twist clockwise so a -> and b <-.. now whichever post I'm serving towards my serving jig starts on right side of string and goes under then over...


----------



## Jan Enthoven

lunghit said:


> Nice^^^^^ Please post pics when all set up.





lunghit said:


> Nice^^^^^ Please post pics when all set up.



Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## bowshooter73

Its done and working like a charm. I am going to redo my mounts, my chop saw is having issues making a square cut. I staggered them just to keep valves easier to get to. Using my Rolair JC10 to run it. I threw some old strings I had laying around to test it. Been sitting at 400# for a couple hours and the PSI's are holding great and the compressor has not needed to kick on yet. Happy camper.


----------



## BlindBuck

Looks great! Thanks for sharing your setup.

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## K.G.K.

Anyone share on how they do the loop ends on a cable that attaches to a ring / yoke system like those on a Mathews bow?


----------



## Kaveman44

K.G.K. said:


> Anyone share on how they do the loop ends on a cable that attaches to a ring / yoke system like those on a Mathews bow?


Id like to know as well!


----------



## 48archer

K.G.K. said:


> Anyone share on how they do the loop ends on a cable that attaches to a ring / yoke system like those on a Mathews bow?


I only do the end that attaches to the cam and leave the other end alone.


----------



## K.G.K.

48archer said:


> I only do the end that attaches to the cam and leave the other end alone.


 .... and then do you loop the served end through the unfinished loop end onto the ring?


----------



## 48archer

K.G.K. said:


> .... and then do you loop the served end through the unfinished loop end onto the ring?


Yes.


----------



## Bownut400

bowshooter73 said:


> Its done and working like a charm. I am going to redo my mounts, my chop saw is having issues making a square cut. I staggered them just to keep valves easier to get to. Using my Rolair JC10 to run it. I threw some old strings I had laying around to test it. Been sitting at 400# for a couple hours and the PSI's are holding great and the compressor has not needed to kick on yet. Happy camper.


Thats a nice set up, thanks for sharing.. Cool color on the jigs too.


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## bowshooter73

I'm glad I went with the orange, keep it from getting lost in the clutter of my bench. That may be my next project, rebuilding my build table.


----------



## Purka

K.G.K. said:


> Anyone share on how they do the loop ends on a cable that attaches to a ring / yoke system like those on a Mathews bow?


Two posts 12" apart. Lay up 24 strands, serve 4" in the middle with thin serving.
Roll the loops between your thumb and index finger to give it twist.
Cut off the tag ends. 
Done.


----------



## nestly

Purka said:


> Two posts 12" apart. Lay up 24 strands, serve 4" in the middle with thin serving.
> Roll the loops between your thumb and index finger to give it twist.
> Cut off the tag ends.
> Done.


I haven't done a lot of Monster yokes, but for those I did the groove in the yoke ring was 0.100" which limited me to a max 20 strands even with thin serving (BCY 2X)


----------



## deerbum

Has anyone tried this type of scale for calibrating the jig? My only concern is whether it will allow me to get the jig tension cranked up to 300 lbs before it locks in a weight.


----------



## bowshooter73

Mine works alright. It has to settle for a couple seconds before it goes into hold mode.


----------



## deerbum

Thanks!


----------



## nestly

Shouldn't be a problem if it has automatic and manual hold modes, which it says it does.


----------



## squid013

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## 2X_LUNG

Awesome, squid! Thing looks great!! 

A loop I finished up!









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## 2X_LUNG

And it's all China braid!

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----------



## tote

*How the heck does someone do an end loop like that????
Looks AMAZING!!!!!!!!!*



2X_LUNG said:


> A loop I finished up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2X_LUNG

tote said:


> *How the heck does someone do an end loop like that????
> Looks AMAZING!!!!!!!!!*


Lol. Thanks. Lotta practice

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----------



## 2X_LUNG

More china braid......and Here's Brownell Fury in new tri color with pinstripes too
















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----------



## tote

I just figured it out....brain freeze.
So that's the white Chinese fishing line right?
What lb test?
I'm using 30lb and found that I am not putting enough tension on my wraps.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

tote said:


> I just figured it out....brain freeze.
> So that's the white Chinese fishing line right?
> What lb test?
> I'm using 30lb and found that I am not putting enough tension on my wraps.


15# for loops. 30# ends

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----------



## tote

2X_LUNG said:


> 15# for loops. 30# ends
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk



That's a giant help.
Thank you.


----------



## deerbum

I was curious about how .014 Powergrip would work for end serving so I made up a set using some BCY-X that I had lying around. Finished diameter of the 28 strand cables was .114" which doesn't seem too large for the mod groove- hope it works out and seems great so far. Now I have 3 tuned in back up sets ready to go-LOL! The .018 white Powergrip makes a real nice center serving and will show any sign of loosening. The roller serving (20# Chinese spectra) was extended 2.25" lower to accommodate the rest down cord- I like how it turned out and will do that from now on. The BCY-X does make a really nice, plastic looking, tag served end loop. Fun stuff


----------



## PowerLineman83

bowshooter73 said:


> Its done and working like a charm. I am going to redo my mounts, my chop saw is having issues making a square cut. I staggered them just to keep valves easier to get to. Using my Rolair JC10 to run it. I threw some old strings I had laying around to test it. Been sitting at 400# for a couple hours and the PSI's are holding great and the compressor has not needed to kick on yet. Happy camper.


I found the cylinders on eBay... Can you tell me where you found the valves and what tubing you used to plumb them? Also, how about the ends that attach to the ram? I have a local machine supply house I'm sure will have most of it I just want to ensure what I'm getting will work.

Thank you in advance.


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## bowshooter73

3/8" slide valves on Amazon. Then 3/8 male to 1/4"female reducers. The tubing is 1/4"OD. To 90's and T's are for 1/4" push fittings for 1/4"OD air line. I didn't feel like running too far to find everything, so all of it came off eBay.


----------



## michaelgentry87

PowerLineman83 said:


> I found the cylinders on eBay... Can you tell me where you found the valves and what tubing you used to plumb them? Also, how about the ends that attach to the ram? I have a local machine supply house I'm sure will have most of it I just want to ensure what I'm getting will work.
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What kind of cylinders or a part number

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## bowshooter73

Only numbers I see were SC63x100. It's a generic number I'm sure.


----------



## b0w_bender

squid013 said:


> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Squid013 you have the exact same color Scheme as my bow.


----------



## squid013

How about my other one

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## PowerLineman83

bowshooter73 said:


> 3/8" slide valves on Amazon. Then 3/8 male to 1/4"female reducers. The tubing is 1/4"OD. To 90's and T's are for 1/4" push fittings for 1/4"OD air line. I didn't feel like running too far to find everything, so all of it came off eBay.


Thank you!


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## bowshooter73

No problem.


----------



## Chris NJ

*String Materials Question*

To start I want to give a huge thank you to the folks providing information on this thread! I just finished reading the thread all the way through, in addition to re-reading parts a bunch of times, and watching the videos that have been made by folks posting here. The wealth of information captured here is incredible! The degree to which many of you go to share your knowledge is not something you see very often. So, I wanted to first and foremost express my appreciation for your knowledge and willingness to share. :darkbeer: I'm also incredibly impressed with the fabrication skills I've seen here. I wish I had the talent to build like that. 

On to my question. I started building with 452x and bought a few colors. After reading about many of your experiences using Fury, I tried it, and really liked the results. All my strings will be Fury, and all I make for friends will be as well. So now I have mostly Fury, but the spools of 452x are still on my bench. If I understand correctly, mixing the 2 different materials is not such a good idea and will result in an unstable string with never ending peep rotation. However, since I've become hooked on pinstripes, I started to wonder if I could use 452x for 2 to 4 strand pins on a string with Fury for the primary bundles.

What do you guys think?

Thanks, Chris.


----------



## automan26

deerbum said:


> I was curious about how .014 Powergrip would work for end serving so I made up a set using some BCY-X that I had lying around. Finished diameter of the 28 strand cables was .114" which doesn't seem too large for the mod groove- hope it works out and seems great so far. Now I have 3 tuned in back up sets ready to go-LOL! The .018 white Powergrip makes a real nice center serving and will show any sign of loosening. The roller serving (20# Chinese spectra) was extended 2.25" lower to accommodate the rest down cord- I like how it turned out and will do that from now on. The BCY-X does make a really nice, plastic looking, tag served end loop. Fun stuff


I like the idea of clear center serving. I have always wanted to build a string that is totally served up with clear serving. I think it would raise a few eyebrows down at the range.

Automan


----------



## retrieverfishin

Chris NJ said:


> To start I want to give a huge thank you to the folks providing information on this thread! I just finished reading the thread all the way through, in addition to re-reading parts a bunch of times, and watching the videos that have been made by folks posting here. The wealth of information captured here is incredible! The degree to which many of you go to share your knowledge is not something you see very often. So, I wanted to first and foremost express my appreciation for your knowledge and willingness to share. :darkbeer: I'm also incredibly impressed with the fabrication skills I've seen here. I wish I had the talent to build like that.
> 
> On to my question. I started building with 452x and bought a few colors. After reading about many of your experiences using Fury, I tried it, and really liked the results. All my strings will be Fury, and all I make for friends will be as well. So now I have mostly Fury, but the spools of 452x are still on my bench. If I understand correctly, mixing the 2 different materials is not such a good idea and will result in an unstable string with never ending peep rotation. However, since I've become hooked on pinstripes, I started to wonder if I could use 452x for 2 to 4 strand pins on a string with Fury for the primary bundles.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> Thanks, Chris.


Not a great idea to mix and match those two IMO. I would list the 452x up for sale or use them for test materials if I were you. Welcome to the string building club!


----------



## Fiferguy

Chris NJ said:


> To start I want to give a huge thank you to the folks providing information on this thread! I just finished reading the thread all the way through, in addition to re-reading parts a bunch of times, and watching the videos that have been made by folks posting here. The wealth of information captured here is incredible! The degree to which many of you go to share your knowledge is not something you see very often. So, I wanted to first and foremost express my appreciation for your knowledge and willingness to share. :darkbeer: I'm also incredibly impressed with the fabrication skills I've seen here. I wish I had the talent to build like that.
> 
> On to my question. I started building with 452x and bought a few colors. After reading about many of your experiences using Fury, I tried it, and really liked the results. All my strings will be Fury, and all I make for friends will be as well. So now I have mostly Fury, but the spools of 452x are still on my bench. If I understand correctly, mixing the 2 different materials is not such a good idea and will result in an unstable string with never ending peep rotation. However, since I've become hooked on pinstripes, I started to wonder if I could use 452x for 2 to 4 strand pins on a string with Fury for the primary bundles.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> Thanks, Chris.


I wouldn't mix the two, but I might be interested in taking a couple colors off your hands if you're looking to get rid of them. What do you have?


----------



## Chris NJ

Red, Black, and Flo-Green partial 1/8# spools. Full 1/8# White and Blue. The flo green is pretty much a full spool. I used the red and black to make a bunch of test strings. I'll weigh them when I get home to see how much is actually on the spools.


----------



## Chris NJ

Chris NJ said:


> Red, Black, and Flo-Green partial 1/8# spools. Full 1/8# White and Blue. The flo green is pretty much a full spool. I used the red and black to make a bunch of test strings. I'll weigh them when I get home to see how much is actually on the spools.


The blue and white full 1/8# spools weigh about 2.8 ozs each (approximate empty spool weight is .8 oz). The Red and Black spools are 2.3 ozs each (about 75% material left). The flo. Green spool is 2.5ozs (about 85% material left). 452x is 8800 ft/#. A full 1/8# spool is about 1100 ft of material. So The red and black spools have about 825 ft of material left. The flo. green spool has about 935 ft of material. The blue and white spools are full, so they have 1100 ft of material.


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## michaelgentry87

lunghit said:


> No heating at all. I lube the end loops and nocks with a very light coating of liquid dish soap and slide it on. I use the cotter pin method to get it started on the end loop. And this is the peep tubing I used:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281222425697?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


You pre crimp them??

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## Hoosierbow20

Chris NJ said:


> To start I want to give a huge thank you to the folks providing information on this thread! I just finished reading the thread all the way through, in addition to re-reading parts a bunch of times, and watching the videos that have been made by folks posting here. The wealth of information captured here is incredible! The degree to which many of you go to share your knowledge is not something you see very often. So, I wanted to first and foremost express my appreciation for your knowledge and willingness to share. :darkbeer: I'm also incredibly impressed with the fabrication skills I've seen here. I wish I had the talent to build like that.
> 
> On to my question. I started building with 452x and bought a few colors. After reading about many of your experiences using Fury, I tried it, and really liked the results. All my strings will be Fury, and all I make for friends will be as well. So now I have mostly Fury, but the spools of 452x are still on my bench. If I understand correctly, mixing the 2 different materials is not such a good idea and will result in an unstable string with never ending peep rotation. However, since I've become hooked on pinstripes, I started to wonder if I could use 452x for 2 to 4 strand pins on a string with Fury for the primary bundles.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> Thanks, Chris.


One thing you could do is build strings made of fury and the cables from 452x,,,,, I emailed bcy and asked about running 8125g on a string and 452x on cables they said it will be fine for speed and was suggested in there questions forum. since these fibers are not the same blends of materials mixing them is not a good idea.


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## Chris NJ

Hoosierbow20 said:


> One thing you could do is build strings made of fury and the cables from 452x,,,,, I emailed bcy and asked about running 8125g on a string and 452x on cables they said it will be fine for speed and was suggested in there questions forum. since these fibers are not the same blends of materials mixing them is not a good idea.


I hadn't thought of that. Excellent idea. Thanks!


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## michaelgentry87

Building a set for my dartons 
26 strands fury, to match factory 22
And 28 strand cables

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## Huntinsker

Looking good guys. I made a set of threads for a frankenbow project I've painfully slowly been working on the past 2 years. Had a set of cams on it but had to change because the weight dropped too low. Because of that, it took a couple sets of threads to get to where I am now. Would have cost me a small fortune if I had to pay for the custom sets. Dang it feels good to be a string builder.


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## michaelgentry87

Agreed hunting kernel

I'm a little nervous building 26 strand strings but I'm sure as usual I'm over thinking on any other bow I don't think I'd do it but all the dartons use small 20 to 22 strand cables
To be that yokes are 12, I went 14 in fury ... 


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## michaelgentry87

michaelgentry87 said:


> Agreed hunting kernel
> 
> I'm a little nervous building 26 strand strings but I'm sure as usual I'm over thinking on any other bow I don't think I'd do it but all the dartons use small 20 to 22 strand cables
> To be that yokes are 12, I went 14 in fury ...
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


Huntinsker.....sorry. auto correct

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## prodeerhunting.

nice


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## jameswk

Hey guy just wanted to touch on my finding for the dreaded bump... i seen some people solved it with a lighter burnish... i personally found that it had nothing to do with burning on my part... for me it was uneven strand tension. i was laying out my threads with the spring loose on my jig which allowed flex so as i laid down the second color it was essentially shorter than the first color.. so it would allow the first color to bunch up , thus creating the bump... it doesnt take much un even tension i found. what ive started doing was tighten my jig right down so the spring cant move and the bumps disappeared.


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## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> Hey guy just wanted to touch on my finding for the dreaded bump... i seen some people solved it with a lighter burnish... i personally found that it had nothing to do with burning on my part... for me it was uneven strand tension. i was laying out my threads with the spring loose on my jig which allowed flex so as i laid down the second color it was essentially shorter than the first color.. so it would allow the first color to bunch up , thus creating the bump... it doesnt take much un even tension i found. what ive started doing was tighten my jig right down so the spring cant move and the bumps disappeared.


I block the spring with a piece of wood so it can't compress.


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## jameswk

Huntinsker said:


> I block the spring with a piece of wood so it can't compress.


thats a good idea as well. i see a lot of bap jigs on here lately i think Butch made a piece to put in there now that works along the same idea as the piece of wood


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## bokellaz

Stretch Question/Solicitation - 

Hello all - I am trying to complete a string jig calculator and one of the factors I need is the expected string stretch based on the material you are using. I would like to solicit the wealth of knowledge on this thread.

If anyone knows the final length of any of these materials based on a 100" starting length it would be greatly appreciated. I am looking for just the difference in the material, I do not want to factor twist into this amount. I am looking for the final length at 100 lbs. tension after stretching and relaxing. If you know the difference, but at a different length, that would be fine as well, but please make it at least a 50" starting amount. I will calculate the percentage for each material and built it into the calculator.

This calculator will store specific bow information, twist variables, serving lengths and starting points, Jig settings for 2, 3 and 4 post jig configurations, recommended strand counts based on material, and recommended stretch time and poundage based on material. It will have 4 simple drop down selectors for the user to choose from, and then it will calculate everything else. I will be happy to share it with anyone who wants it once it is completed.

*Example of what I am looking for:

BCY 452X - 100 1/4" at 100 lbs. after stretching.*

Here are the materials I am looking for. I am hoping to capture materials for both compound and recurve. If you have this knowledge on other materials not listed, please include those!

BCY Products:
BCY X
BCY 452X
8190F
8125G
Trophy
DynaFlight
652 Spectra
B55

Brownell Material:
Fury
Rhino
XS2
Astro Flight
Xcel
D75
B-50
Fast Flight Plus

Thank you


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## nestly

I applaud your ambition, but string building can be more of an art than a science, and each string builder needs to fine tune the calculations based on their individual techniques.

My formula for 452X is Finished length x .75 = twists. Twists x 0.015 + finished length = post distance. 
So for your example *100* x .75 = *75*. *75* x 0.015 = *1.125* + *100* = *101.125*

But again I will emphasize that these calculations may not produce a correct length string for everyone. Jig flex and/or tension while laying up the string will affect the final length. For example if I layed up the string using more tension than "normal" the string would end up being shorter than anticipated. Likewise, if I built two identical strings on two different string jigs that didn't have the same amount of flex, the string built on the jig with more flex would be shorter than that string built on a more rigid jig. 

Twists in a string are also not linear. ie adding 5 twist to a string with 20 twists will change the length less than adding 5 twists to the same string with 40 twists.


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## Mathews4ever

jameswk said:


> Hey guy just wanted to touch on my finding for the dreaded bump... i seen some people solved it with a lighter burnish... i personally found that it had nothing to do with burning on my part... for me it was uneven strand tension. i was laying out my threads with the spring loose on my jig which allowed flex so as i laid down the second color it was essentially shorter than the first color.. so it would allow the first color to bunch up , thus creating the bump... it doesnt take much un even tension i found. what ive started doing was tighten my jig right down so the spring cant move and the bumps disappeared.


I was wondering about that I'm gonna build a spacer to go between my jig head so that can't happen did you tighten the spring all the way down?

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## jameswk

Yeah to like 350 or so .... Enough so that I was confident it wasn't going to compress by me laying out threads


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## bowshooter73

Personal trial and error. I knew about how long I had to go extra on layout until I changed my build process, then it all changed. When I first started using fury, for a 100" string I would would go 101" for layout. Once I got my stretchers done, I had cut a 1/4" off my lay out. Keep notes on every string you build for layout and final. After a half dozen sets, you'll have a formula that works for you and your process.


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## Huntinsker

I agree that string building has too many variables to account for in order to effectively build an a comprehensive calculator for it. Everyone has their own tools and build style that play into how their strings come out. It's one of those things that trial and error will always be the process to figure it out.


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## nuthinbutnock

bowshooter73 said:


> Its done and working like a charm. I am going to redo my mounts, my chop saw is having issues making a square cut. I staggered them just to keep valves easier to get to. Using my Rolair JC10 to run it. I threw some old strings I had laying around to test it. Been sitting at 400# for a couple hours and the PSI's are holding great and the compressor has not needed to kick on yet. Happy camper.


I hope you don't mind me asking, I looked back through to see if it was mentioned somewhere and didn't see it. But where did you get those shackles that screw onto the cylinder ram and the brackets on the other end? I like that so much better than the hooks I'm using. I'm putting the finishing touches on mine today and would love to get those for mine. 


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## bowshooter73

Cylinders are M16x1.5 threaded clevis. The anchor ends are 5/8-18 clevises. Everything was on eBay.


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## K.G.K.

A little off recent topic, but does anyone have experience building a cable for a Mathews Nocam?

Im not a fan of Zebra strings in that they don't serve the end loops.

Im wondering if I should serve the part of the cable that wraps the round disk? 


KGK


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## rok1167

thanks for the info


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## Kaveman44

Huntinsker said:


> I agree that string building has too many variables to account for in order to effectively build an a comprehensive calculator for it. Everyone has their own tools and build style that play into how their strings come out. It's one of those things that trial and error will always be the process to figure it out.


Totally true, when i first started i used to use string length X 1.0065 and now after time i have noticed i needed X 1.0075


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> A little off recent topic, but does anyone have experience building a cable for a Mathews Nocam?
> 
> Im not a fan of Zebra strings in that they don't serve the end loops.
> 
> Im wondering if I should serve the part of the cable that wraps the round disk?
> 
> 
> KGK


I'm sure you could but from my understanding, that big ring is a bearing that rotates so there is virtually no wear on the string there anyway. I'm not sure how large the track is there so if you do, you may want to keep it a small diameter serving to make sure it fits.


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## K.G.K.

Thanks ... probably best to match existing. 

KGK


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## Jramey

K.G.K. said:


> A little off recent topic, but does anyone have experience building a cable for a Mathews Nocam?
> 
> Im not a fan of Zebra strings in that they don't serve the end loops.
> 
> Im wondering if I should serve the part of the cable that wraps the round disk?
> 
> 
> KGK


 I've made a few and never served that area . No need to with it being able to rotate


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## 48archer

Seems like most on here use some sort of string clamp to keep the string from rotating while serving, how come you don't clamp the string on a jig that rotates the string while its being served like on the Specialty unit.


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## Huntinsker

48archer said:


> Seems like most on here use some sort of string clamp to keep the string from rotating while serving, how come you don't clamp the string on a jig that rotates the string while its being served like on the Specialty unit.


Well the first thing that comes to mind is that the string couldn't rotate if it were clamped in place.


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## 48archer

Huntinsker said:


> Well the first thing that comes to mind is that the string couldn't rotate if it were clamped in place.


You lost me... a Specialty jig spins or rotates the string so it can be served yet its not clamped to keep it from rotating from the server, why is it necessary to clamp the string say like on a Little Jon if you can get the same results from a Specialty. If I am reading your post correctly the reason you are clamping the string while serving is to prevent peep rotation.


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## Huntinsker

48archer said:


> You lost me... a Specialty jig spins or rotates the string so it can be served yet its not clamped to keep it from rotating from the server, why is it necessary to clamp the string say like on a Little Jon if you can get the same results from a Specialty. If I am reading your post correctly the reason you are clamping the string while serving is to prevent peep rotation.


You asked why you don't clamp the string on a machine like a specialty server and it's because it couldn't spin if you clamp it in place. 

I've never used a machine like that but I'd guess that you can't serve quite as tightly on it without getting some peep rotation. If you can, it's probably because the rotational torque of the string is enough to overcome the resistance of the serving pulling on the string.


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## Kaveman44

Why do my loops look like this on the jig


Then after I take them off and go to put them on the bow they do this


Please give me some help guys!!!!!


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## 48archer

Huntinsker said:


> You asked why you don't clamp the string on a machine like a specialty server and it's because it couldn't spin if you clamp it in place.
> 
> I've never used a machine like that but I'd guess that you can't serve quite as tightly on it without getting some peep rotation. If you can, it's probably because the rotational torque of the string is enough to overcome the resistance of the serving pulling on the string.


Its pretty obvious that it cant be clamped and I don't think tension on the sever has been decreased, I have seen plenty of strings built on the Specialty that were served with white 3d or Halo and it was pretty clear so tension was there to make it go clear. I am just wondering if its necessary to clamp a string when served on a normal jig that doesn't rotate the string.


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## nestly

48archer said:


> Its pretty obvious that it cant be clamped and I don't think tension on the sever has been decreased, I have seen plenty of strings built on the Specialty that were served with white 3d or Halo and it was pretty clear so tension was there to make it go clear. I am just wondering if its necessary to clamp a string when served on a normal jig that doesn't rotate the string.


I believe it's unnecessary (maybe even detrimental) to clamp while serving as it prevents the string and serving from performing as a single entity. Serving by rotating the string (such as a super server) is IMO the best way to serve. Been doing it like that quite a while now on my homemade server/stretcher and peep rotation is a non-issue as long as tension remains consistent throughout the process, as is the case with pneumatic tensioners such as the SS.

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## skynight

It is necessary that the string does not rotate when being served conventionally. How you do that is up to you, I prefer the clamps. If the string is rotated under the serving it will cause no end of peep rotation.
I can't speak to the specialty server.


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> Why do my loops look like this on the jig
> 
> 
> Then after I take them off and go to put them on the bow they do this
> 
> 
> Please give me some help guys!!!!!


I'd venture a guess and say that the material under the loop is twisting as you serve it and once the tension is released, it's causing the loop to go blurry, I mean twist.


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## Huntinsker

48archer said:


> Its pretty obvious that it cant be clamped and I don't think tension on the sever has been decreased, I have seen plenty of strings built on the Specialty that were served with white 3d or Halo and it was pretty clear so tension was there to make it go clear. I am just wondering if its necessary to clamp a string when served on a normal jig that doesn't rotate the string.


I've made a lot of strings on my conventional jig, some without string clamps and some with. I've gotten way better results when clamping the string. I can serve more tightly and don't have to worry about peep rotation. Before using the clamps, I had to serve with half the amount of jig tension and my shoot in time was longer to get the little bit of peep rotation that I may have had.


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## nestly

skynight said:


> It is necessary that the string does not rotate when being served conventionally. How you do that is up to you, I prefer the clamps. If the string is rotated under the serving it will cause no end of peep rotation.


I've never clamped, whether serving conventionally or otherwise and peep rotation has never been an issue for me as long as the string is under sufficient tension while the serving is being applied. Additionally, even when clamped, the string is rotating under the serving, if you don't believe it, clamp and serve an untwisted string with clear serving. If the affect isn't immediately apparent, it will be after removing the clamps and releasing the tension. Tight servings change the twist rate under the servings, period. It doesn't matter if they're clamped, unclamped, or done in a serving machine, the trick is simply to find out what tension is necessary for the opposing forces to neutralize each other.


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## skynight

I'm going to just disagree with that based on my personal experience.


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## Kaveman44

Huntinsker said:


> I'd venture a guess and say that the material under the loop is twisting as you serve it and once the tension is released, it's causing the loop to go blurry, I mean twist.


could my tension be to tight on my server


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> could my tension be to tight on my server


It could but if it doesn't affect how the string performs, it may not be a problem.


----------



## 48archer

Huntinsker said:


> It could but if it doesn't affect how the string performs, it may not be a problem.


What was your twist rate, you might have had too many twists in the string, I can see in the background your string has several bumps in it.


----------



## Huntinsker

48archer said:


> What was your twist rate, you might have had too many twists in the string, I can see in the background your string has several bumps in it.


Think you grabbed the wrong quote. I'd guess though that his twist rate was zero when he was serving the loops. It also looks like his bumps are at the junction of served and nonserved parts of the string.


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## Kaveman44

i also loosen the tension on my stretcher when i get to the part of the loop that it can close up the loop, from 300# to about 100#


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> i also loosen the tension on my stretcher when i get to the part of the loop that it can close up the loop, from 300# to about 100#


I do that too but have never had them twist like that. I've never served my loops either though.


----------



## Kaveman44

48archer said:


> What was your twist rate, you might have had too many twists in the string, I can see in the background your string has several bumps in it.


Length X 0.66


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## Kaveman44

how tight should the server be when i serve the loops themselves


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## bowshooter73

The loop twist up like that and become pretty stiff when serve them tight. Keep your server loose enough that the server makes 2-3 wraps when you flip it.


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## Kaveman44

bowshooter73 said:


> The loop twist up like that and become pretty stiff when serve them tight. Keep your server loose enough that the server makes 2-3 wraps when you flip it.


i did just recently really tighten down the server as tight as i could, they are so tight


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## bowshooter73

That would be why their doing that. Loops aren't a stress area and really don't have to be done. Serving loops is more cosmetic and make them easier to unhook and rehook when tuning. Loosen you jig next time and try it, it'll make them softer and easier to work with.


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## Kaveman44

how big do you guys make your loops, i feel like mine are way to big


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> how tight should the server be when i serve the loops themselves


Don't know a number because every situation is different. Only answer is tight enough but not too tight. Maybe put a peg or nail in the bundle like skynight does on page 134, post 3343, assuming you don't already.


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> how big do you guys make your loops, i feel like mine are way to big


Depends on the bow but mostly, 5/8" from the outside of the post, for string and cable ends and 3/4-1" for yoke legs.


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## Kaveman44

I reserved the loops not as tight, doesn't look as good but it's not twisting, I will find a happy medium, just finished the strings for my Hoyt Podium 37


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## Kaveman44

What tool do you guys use to pull yours string tight after you back serve , i have needle nose plyers but it slips and my hands have to many slits as it is


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## Chris NJ

I use guard-tex safety tape on my fingers (index and pinky, both hands) and pull by hand. Not as bulky as duct tape, no sticky residue, and no cuts. Stuff works great.


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## bowshooter73

I use a pair of smooth flat nose pliers.


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## Chris NJ

I also use a hemostat for serving.


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## nestly

Clamp with hemostats then wrap the thread around the hemostat jaws 6-8 times. Harder you pull, the tighter the wraps clamp down the jaws

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## deerbum

I haven't picked up a pair of hemostats yet- have been tying the tag in a loop and pulling until it breaks. I think I have a set around here somewhere...


----------



## tote

nestly said:


> Clamp with hemostats then wrap the thread around the hemostat jaws 6-8 times. Harder you pull, the tighter the wraps clamp down the jaws
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


^^^This but with needle nose pliers.


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## 2X_LUNG

This set came together nicely!









Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## Kaveman44

would you guys put speed TPU speed Nocks on Target Bow strings


----------



## BlindBuck

2X_LUNG said:


> This set came together nicely!
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Looks great as always. That combo looks really good. Seems Gray/Black with any flo pin really looks nice.


Is that Brownell or BCY?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## 2X_LUNG

BlindBuck said:


> Looks great as always. That combo looks really good. Seems Gray/Black with any flo pin really looks nice.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Thanks. Yes, you're exactly right!!

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## Kaizoku

2X_LUNG said:


> This set came together nicely!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk





BlindBuck said:


> Looks great as always. That combo looks really good. Seems Gray/Black with any flo pin really looks nice.
> 
> 
> Is that Brownell or BCY?
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk



He made me a set as I've been too busy to build myself a jig. I always order black/gray with flo green pinstripe. I need to finish getting my bow tuned up and then I'll send the pictures to him. Like I said though I've been busy. It is on my agenda for tonight though.


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> would you guys put speed TPU speed Nocks on Target Bow strings


Sure would. Would aid in some sound dampening and free speed can't hurt if you can get it.


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## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> This set came together nicely!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


I've had this combo on my bow for 2 years now and just can't seem to change it. It just looks too good.


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> I reserved the loops not as tight, doesn't look as good but it's not twisting, I will find a happy medium, just finished the strings for my Hoyt Podium 37


What material are you using to serve them? You may try a smaller diameter material so you don't have to serve them so tightly and it would still go clear.


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## Kaveman44

i use browned fury for the string, Dura-Grip on the loops and .014 Halo on the end servings


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## Kaveman44

i dont have any serving to attach the speed nocks to , what can i use to make them stick to my regular string


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> i dont have any serving to attach the speed nocks to , what can i use to make them stick to my regular string


Don't put them on without serving. They'll just move all over and if you use the brass nocks, they may damage the material. If you want to use them, add some serving to the string.


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## Mathews4ever

is anyone still using tag ends ?

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## Huntinsker

Mathews4ever said:


> is anyone still using tag ends ?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


Yep


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## Mathews4ever

Huntinsker said:


> Yep


got any pics of your loops ? do you over lap the tags ? 


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## deerbum

Kaveman44 said:


> i dont have any serving to attach the speed nocks to , what can i use to make them stick to my regular string


When I installed TPU nocks on my end servings I had good luck keeping them locked in when I served about 28 wraps of .018 Powergrip in the nock location before sliding them on. That was on top of the .014 Halo end serving. So, on a bare string, and for me with what I have on hand, I would serve with the cheapest end serving on hand and then put .018 Powergrip on top of it.


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## Huntinsker

Mathews4ever said:


> got any pics of your loops ? do you over lap the tags ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


There should be several pics in this thread. I do overlap the wraps so that I get good coverage.


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## 2X_LUNG

Huntinsker said:


> I've had this combo on my bow for 2 years now and just can't seem to change it. It just looks too good.
> 
> View attachment 3957361


Gosh you're right, it's such an addicting combo

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## chasemukluk

Got my first ever string (practice) on the jig. Layed out, endloops served with the tag ends, stretched, twisted, burnished and now stretching again.









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## Chris NJ

First attempt using 4 post jig. Fury hunter green, black, cedar, and bronze test string served endloops, .008 spectra. Thought it would be a good match for my son's camo Bowtech Assassin. Stretching on the jig.


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## 2X_LUNG

Looking great

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## automan26

Chris NJ said:


> First attempt using 4 post jig. Fury hunter green, black, cedar, and bronze test string served endloops, .008 spectra. Thought it would be a good match for my son's camo Bowtech Assassin. Stretching on the jig.
> View attachment 3963425


I think you may have a problem when it comes to doing the end serving. It appears that you have a couple large bumps where you tied off your tag ends--just behind your servings. Your serving tool may not like jumping that bump and your transition from the string to your served loop might not be as smooth as you would like it. One way to cut down on these bumps is to weave the tags between the strands of the bundles and not around the outside of the bundles. I do not serve my loops; I use the tag method, so there may be guys here who can give you better advice on how to make the transition smoother on served loops.

Automan


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## bowshooter73

I'm to the point now I just cut them off flush. Once I'm on my tensioner, I let them set at a couple hundred pounds for about ten minutes before I twist. No loose strands and bulk under the end serving. Once their twisted up, their not going anywhere.


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## Chris NJ

automan26 said:


> I think you may have a problem when it comes to doing the end serving. It appears that you have a couple large bumps where you tied off your tag ends--just behind your servings. Your serving tool may not like jumping that bump and your transition from the string to your served loop might not be as smooth as you would like it. One way to cut down on these bumps is to weave the tags between the strands of the bundles and not around the outside of the bundles. I do not serve my loops; I use the tag method, so there may be guys here who can give you better advice on how to make the transition smoother on served loops.
> 
> Automan


Automan,

You are exactly right! the serving did not transition smoothly. I also had a heck of a time separating all the color bundles before twisting after moving it to the stretcher. I think weaving the tags will help with the separation and also smooth out the transition. I am building the set today and will switch from backserving the tags to weaving. The string is already on the stretcher, so I'll make the switch on the cables.

Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated.

Chris.


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## Chris NJ

bowshooter73 said:


> I'm to the point now I just cut them off flush. Once I'm on my tensioner, I let them set at a couple hundred pounds for about ten minutes before I twist. No loose strands and bulk under the end serving. Once their twisted up, their not going anywhere.


Do you do the twisting before you cut them or after?


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## bowshooter73

I cut them flush before I take them off the 4 post. If I'm doing tag end, I'll do two weaves and cut them off flush.


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## Chris NJ

bowshooter73 said:


> I cut them flush before I take them off the 4 post. If I'm doing tag end, I'll do two weaves and cut them off flush.


Thanks.


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## Chris NJ

2X_LUNG said:


> Looking great
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Thanks!


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## skynight

Chris NJ said:


> Automan,
> 
> You are exactly right! the serving did not transition smoothly. I also had a heck of a time separating all the color bundles before twisting after moving it to the stretcher. I think weaving the tags will help with the separation and also smooth out the transition. I am building the set today and will switch from backserving the tags to weaving. The string is already on the stretcher, so I'll make the switch on the cables.
> 
> Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated.
> 
> Chris.


If you want to back serve the tags, just do one at a time, leaving the other tag under the first tags serving. Check out post 3318 on page 133 for a pic and description. One strand is no more bulky than your .008 spectra when wrapped singly.
Personally I'm not comfortable cutting tags off flush after loop serving. I back serve 7 wraps right now but I'm going to try fewer wraps.


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## Chris NJ

skynight said:


> If you want to back serve the tags, just do one at a time, leaving the other tag under the first tags serving. Check out post 3318 on page 133 for a pic and description. One strand is no more bulky than your .008 spectra when wrapped singly.
> Personally I'm not comfortable cutting tags off flush after loop serving. I back serve 7 wraps right now but I'm going to try fewer wraps.


I went back and looked at that post. Another method to try! This is great, 3 separate ways to achieve the same end. I need to build three sets of threads, possibly 4 if my other son's bow "needs" a new set. :smile: I'm going to using a different method on each to get a feel for how each works in the build process and also after being shot and see how things go. This really is addicting! lol


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## michaelgentry87

Bull whip or mini for end servings 
And what's a good brownell Center serving, 

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## automan26

Mathews4ever said:


> got any pics of your loops ? do you over lap the tags ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


I still do tag ends because I think they produce a better string. With every wrap of the tag I can feel the strand tension even out and become tighter. Served loops look great and work just fine, but I am a die-hard tagger.


Automan


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## K.G.K.

Are the sring/cable length measurements that are provided by the bow manufacturers consistently accurate? I always seem to have to add twists to the cables and string to achieve specs, timing etc. Ive never had to remove twists. Are the measurments meant to be too long?

Just curious if this is normal for everyone. 

KGK


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## bowshooter73

Hoyts seem to be a little different from time to time. Keep an eye on their tune charts for changes to which ever bow you may be building for.


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Are the sring/cable length measurements that are provided by the bow manufacturers consistently accurate? I always seem to have to add twists to the cables and string to achieve specs, timing etc. Ive never had to remove twists. Are the measurments meant to be too long?
> 
> Just curious if this is normal for everyone.
> 
> KGK


Hoyt typically needs a longer control cable and a shorter buss cable. Mathews single cams usually need a shorter buss cable and longer string. Mathews' advertised specs are terrible. Not even close in many cases. Most others that I've built for were pretty good.


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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> Hoyt typically needs a longer control cable and a shorter buss cable. Mathews single cams usually need a shorter buss cable and longer string. Mathews' advertised specs are terrible. Not even close in many cases. Most others that I've built for were pretty good.


I put strings on a 70# Mathews NoCam. Strings and cables were measuring almost perfect. When installed the bow didnt reach 67# dw. I had to add almost 8 twists to cables and take some out of the string just to get close to specs and tune.



KGK


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> I put strings on a 70# Mathews NoCam. Strings and cables were measuring almost perfect. When installed the bow didnt reach 67# dw. I had to add almost 8 twists to cables and take some out of the string just to get close to specs and tune.
> 
> 
> 
> KGK


Yeah they're pretty good about not putting out correct specs. I think that's where the old wives tail that "Only Mathews strings work on Mathews bows" comes from. I've had several people tell me that their Mathews dealer told them that custom strings wouldn't work on their bows and I think this is why.


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## automan26

When following factory string and cable specs on my Bowtech Sentinels I always came out 5/16" short on my ATA and 1/8" long on my BH. I now lengthen my cables by 1/4" each and my string by 1/2" and nail all my specs perfectly. It sucks when you can't trust the limb decal or the published specs.

Automan


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## BlindBuck

Agreed. I will only build a string set if I have the bow to measure the lengths or if I've made a set for the particular bow prior. Been burnt in the past following a sticker on friends bows.

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## b0w_bender

automan26 said:


> When following factory string and cable specs on my Bowtech Sentinels I always came out 5/16" short on my ATA and 1/8" long on my BH. I now lengthen my cables by 1/4" each and my string by 1/2" and nail all my specs perfectly. It sucks when you can't trust the limb decal or the published specs.
> Automan


I've always felt that the specs were just a simple suggestion of about where the bow should be. if I'm within a 1/4" of the ATA I'm plenty satisfied. I sincerely doubt that there is a whole lot of effort that goes into coming up with the specs. I'm pretty sure they calculate the approximate amount of flex they want in the limbs and say yup that looks good enough. From there everyone goes crazy trying to match them perfectly. I mess around with the lengths a lot to see if I can affect the draw lengths or the poundage or... but unless I'm trying to get the bow to perform at the very fringes of it's settings I pretty much give it a reasonable try on the first go and then call it good. If I were building strings for paying customers I suppose I would probably be a bit more finicky just because the customers would want it but I'm convinced that you won't see a significant performance difference with a 1/4" change in ATA with most bows. I do try to replicate what ever was on the bow when I replace the strings and cables though. I do want it to act the same after I change the cables as it did before I started. 

I just restrung a Rytera Nemesis I wrote down all the specs and then took the strings off to measure them. None of them were even close to what the sticker said but the ATA was a little long so pretty close to the factory spec. So in that respect I agree the sticker is seldom accurate in the lengths. When I rebuilt the strings and cables I split the difference a bit so the bow was snot on to the ATA spec when I was done but they still were longer than the sticker said they should be.

When you start building franken bows and messing with limb flex and cable\string lengths you start to realize how huge the window is for acceptable performance.


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## Huntinsker

I think it's a lot more involved than that. If I make a string and cable set to a manufacturers advertised specs and my 70lb bow is only reaching 65lbs, that's not acceptable. The engineers do a lot more than just guess at what string and cable length they need in order to get the cam timing correct and to achieve the draw weights and lengths they want. At the very minimum, it should achieve the proper draw weight. 

Even the Archer Manufacturer's Organization (AMO before it changed to ATA in 2002) have standards that a compound bow string must be within 1/8" and the cables should be within 1/16". Basically, if it's on the limb, it should be those specs to within 1/8" and 1/16".

What is determined to be acceptable performance on a frankenbow is up to the person building it. I just made one with a set of cams that only reached 40lbs. I wanted 50lbs at least so I switched cams and now have it at 51lbs. 

Personally, all my bows are tuned the way I want them and then I build to my own custom lengths. However, if I'm building for friend and I don't have access to the bow, the sticker and advertised specs dang well better be correct. Nothing I hate more than wasting my time and money because of someone else's negligence or purposeful misinformation.


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## K.G.K.

Agreed. In supplement to my original post that lead to this informative dialogue, 

I finished the harness for an HTR and made sure the string/cable lengths were as exact I could get them before installing.

Low and behold I put them on the bow and nailed it. Perfect ATA, brace and 1 twist away from perfect cam timing, lol. Go figure ... that was a first for me!

KGK


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## b0w_bender

Huntinsker said:


> I think it's a lot more involved than that. If I make a string and cable set to a manufacturers advertised specs and my 70lb bow is only reaching 65lbs, that's not acceptable. The engineers do a lot more than just guess at what string and cable length they need in order to get the cam timing correct and to achieve the draw weights and lengths they want. At the very minimum, it should achieve the proper draw weight.
> 
> Even the Archer Manufacturer's Organization (AMO before it changed to ATA in 2002) have standards that a compound bow string must be within 1/8" and the cables should be within 1/16". Basically, if it's on the limb, it should be those specs to within 1/8" and 1/16".
> 
> What is determined to be acceptable performance on a frankenbow is up to the person building it. I just made one with a set of cams that only reached 40lbs. I wanted 50lbs at least so I switched cams and now have it at 51lbs.
> 
> Personally, all my bows are tuned the way I want them and then I build to my own custom lengths. However, if I'm building for friend and I don't have access to the bow, the sticker and advertised specs dang well better be correct. Nothing I hate more than wasting my time and money because of someone else's negligence or purposeful misinformation.


I've built my shadow cats as much as an inches longer in the ATA and the drop off on the available weight was not below spec. You can actually do quite a bit of messing around to get different performance metrics based on ATA and timing and brace. The ATA is the Archery TRADE association. All the manufacturers are members. They have standards because they don't want people messing around with their stuff and potentially risking damage to a warrantied product. They also need all the manufacturers to conform to some standards for the good of the sport. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a huge variance in the acceptable performance of the pieces. 

I would be flabbergasted if they don't use a method similar to mine in determining cable lengths. Compress the bow until you get the preferred limb deflection. Then rotate the cams to the orientation and timing that you want them to have and then measure the strings that would hold it in that position. Do a couple of test firings to make sure the draw lengths are within the parameters you want and then publish it. OK ya they are probably doing some math before the route out the prototypes but they have to be tweaking things after they put them together. 

Have you ever built a bow with a riser from one company limbs from another and cams from a third company? If you haven't you should, you'll find that there won't be any spec for a bow like that. Once you've put something like that together though you can still put it in a shooting machine and have it hit the same hole twice with the same arrow. You can also adjust the cables and string a whole bunch to get different specs and still get it to shoot perfectly fine. So you can ulcerate over 1/4" if you want but my experience has shown it to be less critical than most people think.


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## automan26

The main reason I was so concerned about getting my Sentinels back to spec had to do with draw weight. Bowtechs often have a harsh draw cycle so I had to back my 60# bow down to 50# to save my shoulders. After backing the weight down I found that the limb bolts were extending a very long way out of the riser and I didn't like that. Getting my bow back to spec also dropped the draw weight, allowing me to crank down a bit more on the limb bolts. Finally I gave up and put 50# limbs on the bow and that solved most of my problems. My Sentinels only reduce the draw weight 1 pound per turn, so backing out the limb bolts 10 turns was not a great idea. My next set of cables will be a bit longer yet. I would like the bow to max out at 47# so I can crank the limb bolts down all the way.

Automan


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## nestly

Built strings for a Bowtech Experience and the factory length of the string was 60-7/32". Now I'm used to working with tolerances much smaller than 1/32", but I had to laugh at Bowtech in that instance. Someone should tell Bowtech engineers the difference between 7/32" and 1/4" is about a half a twist... LOL.

When building for customers, I build to "spec" unless requested otherwise, but I agree with the others that say it's just not that important. I've gone both up and down 3/4" from "factory" ATA on my Hoyts to get the bow where "I" needed it to be.


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## Huntinsker

I know full well that a bow will shoot without being in spec. However, the string specs that companies publish and the ATA, old AMO standards, are in place to get the bow to perform how the bow was designed and within the specs that they were designed with. That's why it's important to have those measurements be accurate. None of my bows have factory length threads because I use my own custom lengths after tuning. 

A frankenbow is an entirely different thing. Since the pieces weren't designed to work together in the first place, there are no set specifications listed by any manufacturer so you can and must build to whatever you want. You could build every string set to whatever you wanted and call it good enough but if you're building for someone who's paying you for your strings, they most likely won't be as casual about it when their bow is no longer performing like they want it to.


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## b0w_bender

Huntinsker said:


> I know full well that a bow will shoot without being in spec. However, the string specs that companies publish and the ATA, old AMO standards, are in place to get the bow to perform how the bow was designed and within the specs that they were designed with. That's why it's important to have those measurements be accurate. None of my bows have factory length threads because I use my own custom lengths after tuning.
> 
> A frankenbow is an entirely different thing. Since the pieces weren't designed to work together in the first place, there are no set specifications listed by any manufacturer so you can and must build to whatever you want. You could build every string set to whatever you wanted and call it good enough but if you're building for someone who's paying you for your strings, they most likely won't be as casual about it when their bow is no longer performing like they want it to.


Yup I totally agree with everything you are saying above. Customers are going to want specs to match, I totally agree. Unfortunately as Automan26 was suggesting, the specified cable and string lengths provided by the manufacturer often don't actually create the ATA and Brace height they themselves also specified. So my point was that when folks are building strings for their own bows they shouldn't get too wrapped around the axles (so to speak) when their bows aren't exactly like the factory specs. Typically you can still get the max and min weight out of the bow if the dimensions are a little off. You can also usually get the the draw lengths necessary to fit the archer within the large window of adjustment afforded by most cam designs. In most cases there isn't any accuracy issues if the dimensions are a little off. 

There are lots of things to consider when building custom strings for customers, Do you want the bow to match the specified ATA? Do you want the strings to match the manufacturers specified lengths? Do you want the bow to match the dimensions you had before you changed the strings? I would guess that very seldom do all three of those align to be a "Yes". I would concur that when they do all align it makes the string builders life a lot easier because it sets a consistent expectation for the string buyer to check against. Unfortunately the manufacturers have setup a scenario where the specifications they provide don't align.


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## automan26

Reo can stand all day and pound Xs with his new Elite, but no way is that bow set to factory specs; it is set to Reo specs. As mentioned above there are the specs the customer expects and the specs that work best for the shooter and often those specs are not the same. My Sentinels do not shoot any better when in spec than they did when slightly out of spec, factory specs just make it easier for me to draw by allowing me to lower the draw weight to where my bow can handle what I need. The three pounds of draw weight I reduced by lengthening the cables amounted to three less turns out on the limb bolts to achieve what I needed.

That's the great thing about being able to build your own strings; you can make that bow do whatever fits you, not what fits generally everyone else.

Automan


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## nestly

Another thing to consider is that bows typically have only 1/2" Draw Length adjustments, but any good shooter knows you should fine tune to be within 1/8" (or less) of your perfect draw length. So that's great for the guy that has a DL that falls exactly on 1/2" increments, but not so great for everyone else that's in between wheel/module settings. (ie 29-1/8", 29-1/4", 29-3/8"). You can twist a "spec" length string so it produces a perfect draw length for the archer, or you can build a new one that produces the perfect draw length for the archer, but in either case, the measured string length of a perfectly fitted bow isn't going to match the number on the limb sticker 3 out of 4 times. "Factory specs" for strings, ATA, and Brace Height are just like center shot measurements, it's only a place to start, you still have to fine tune to make the bow fit the archer.


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## Huntinsker

I agree with everything stated in the above posts. It's too bad factory spec string/cable lengths aren't more accurate so that we could have a known starting point to then adjust the lengths as needed. If we could rely on the bows to hit the advertised bow dimensions, including draw weight and draw length, then it would be much easier to make custom sets based on the desires of the customer.


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## jameswk

If your using a bap this is the piece I was talking about that Butch has come up with to keep your spring from compressing.


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## Huntinsker

jameswk said:


> If your using a bap this is the piece I was talking about that Butch has come up with to keep your spring from compressing.
> View attachment 3984898


Maybe I'm not looking at this the right way but how does that stop the spring from compressing if it's attached to the threaded rod on the inside of the jig? Wouldn't the block just move with the threaded rod as the spring is compressed? I'd thing that it would need to be on the other side so it would stop up against the steel that holds the spring and not let the threaded rod move inwards.


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## Chris NJ

Huntinsker said:


> Maybe I'm not looking at this the right way but how does that stop the spring from compressing if it's attached to the threaded rod on the inside of the jig? Wouldn't the block just move with the threaded rod as the spring is compressed? I'd thing that it would need to be on the other side so it would stop up against the steel that holds the spring and not let the threaded rod move inwards.


The piece goes on then you preload by raising the tension. This holds the block in place, the post stays at a set position, and doing the layout won't compress the spring unless you exceed the preload. I usually tension to 200#.


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## rok1167

any reason to not make a string with 8 strands one color, 16 of another, without having 3 separate pieces? my question is raised because the string is not symmetrical then.


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## bowshooter73

As long as your strand count is where you want, it doesn't matter. Just mark your center like normal.


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## Huntinsker

rok1167 said:


> any reason to not make a string with 8 strands one color, 16 of another, without having 3 separate pieces? my question is raised because the string is not symmetrical then.


Keep the strand tension even and you'll be fine. I just made a red string with a single pinstripe out of Brownell Fury and used 24 strands of red and 4 strands of black for the string.


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## Huntinsker

Chris NJ said:


> The piece goes on then you preload by raising the tension. This holds the block in place, the post stays at a set position, and doing the layout won't compress the spring unless you exceed the preload. I usually tension to 200#.


If that's the case then there's no need for the block at all. If the block is on the inside of the jig, in between the spring and the string post, then the block will move if the spring is compressed. If you still have to preload the spring to stop it from compressing, the block is useless. Now if the block were on the outside of the spring, then it would prevent the spring from compressing in the first place. There would be no need for preloading then.

I just looked at his sale thread and it looks and sounds to me that the only thing this block does is act as something that you squeeze between the post and the spring housing. Put it in place, crank the handle until it squeezes the block in place and build. It just keeps you from preloading inconsistently. It doesn't actually act to block the spring from compressing.


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## Chris NJ

Huntinsker said:


> If that's the case then there's no need for the block at all. If the block is on the inside of the jig, in between the spring and the string post, then the block will move if the spring is compressed. If you still have to preload the spring to stop it from compressing, the block is useless. Now if the block were on the outside of the spring, then it would prevent the spring from compressing in the first place. There would be no need for preloading then.
> 
> I just looked at his sale thread and it looks and sounds to me that the only thing this block does is act as something that you squeeze between the post and the spring housing. Put it in place, crank the handle until it squeezes the block in place and build. It just keeps you from preloading inconsistently. It doesn't actually act to block the spring from compressing.


Butch can chime in if I am misstating, but you are correct in that it doesn't prevent the spring from compressing. What it does do though is ensure that you would need to apply tension during your layout that exceeds the preload in order to get the spring to compress. Unless I'm not understanding correctly, this effectively gets you to the same place, which is a fixed post position with no compression of the spring during strand layout contributing to inconsistent strand tension in the bundles. The block keeps the jig in a fixed position when you need it fixed, and when removed, allows for ample travel to allow the string to stretch. To completely block the compression of the spring, you'd need to put something between the back side of the housing (outside the spring cover) and the crank handle to isolate the spring. I have been building a whole bunch of test strings since I got my jig from Butch, and the device is getting the job done without any problems and has been easy to use.


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris NJ said:


> Butch can chime in if I am misstating, but you are correct in that it doesn't prevent the spring from compressing. What it does do though is ensure that you would need to apply tension during your layout that exceeds the preload in order to get the spring to compress. Unless I'm not understanding correctly, this effectively gets you to the same place, which is a fixed post position with no compression of the spring during strand layout contributing to inconsistent strand tension in the bundles. The block keeps the jig in a fixed position when you need it fixed, and when removed, allows for ample travel to allow the string to stretch. To completely block the compression of the spring, you'd need to put something between the back side of the housing (outside the spring cover) and the crank handle to isolate the spring. I have been building a whole bunch of test strings since I got my jig from Butch, and the device is getting the job done without any problems and has been easy to use.


Yeah that sounds like what I am imagining. I actually use a block of wood to keep my spring from compressing. Nothing fancy but it's effective.


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## 48archer

I think it would be hard to layout a string at or over 200lbs of tension. I made a spacer like that years ago for my Little Jon and I put 200lbs of tension on it also.


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## Bownut400

Huntinsker said:


> Yeah that sounds like what I am imagining. I actually use a block of wood to keep my spring from compressing. Nothing fancy but it's effective.


Yes you would be correct in the adding spring tension and being unable to add tension to the spring causing uneven strand tension. It was not a rocket science idea but useful. The wood block it a good idea.


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## Chris018

So i made it to page 142 and read everything up until there. I have my jig made and a test string let me know what you think, and thank you to all the contributors of this thread. it is amazing to me the wealth of knowledge that has been accumulated here. it has made it very easy to get started,


----------



## Chris018

the post on one end is a little off and the string wanted to ride up the post so i used a zip tie to keep it at the bottom


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris018 said:


> the post on one end is a little off and the string wanted to ride up the post so i used a zip tie to keep it at the bottom


Looks like you're off to a great start!


----------



## automan26

It looks great. There are a couple very minor things that might help. First, take a file and knock down that sharp bolt edge in the left pic. It is probably OK, but strings hate sharp stuff and that is the kind of thing that just might mar a serving someday. Also, if the string is riding up the post, most often it is caused by not having the back of the bolt angled down enough. The channel likes to flex and the post bolts like to tilt down slightly under tension so just a little downward angle on the rear of the bolt might just do the trick.

U Dun Gud!!!!!! Now you are hooked for life!!!!!!!!

Automan


----------



## Chris018

automan26 said:


> It looks great. There are a couple very minor things that might help. First, take a file and knock down that sharp bolt edge in the left pic. It is probably OK, but strings hate sharp stuff and that is the kind of thing that just might mar a serving someday. Also, if the string is riding up the post, most often it is caused by not having the back of the bolt angled down enough. The channel likes to flex and the post bolts like to tilt down slightly under tension so just a little downward angle on the rear of the bolt might just do the trick.
> 
> U Dun Gud!!!!!! Now you are hooked for life!!!!!!!!
> 
> Automan


thanks very much. I did notice the sharp edges and plan to do a little more work around the posts to get rid of them. the piece of strut that the jug is on is just a piece that i had laying around the shop. I plan to weld 2 pieces back to back as i did notice the strut flex at 300#s. here is a pic of how the loops turned out. not totally happy with the red one but the black on seems ok after i served them.


----------



## automan26

Chris018 said:


> thanks very much. I did notice the sharp edges and plan to do a little more work around the posts to get rid of them. the piece of strut that the jug is on is just a piece that i had laying around the shop. I plan to weld 2 pieces back to back as i did notice the strut flex at 300#s. here is a pic of how the loops turned out. not totally happy with the red one but the black on seems ok after i served them.
> View attachment 3996738


You are progressing nicely and are farther along than you think. This pic is a promo pic lifted from the webpage of a pro builder. You are starting out where he is at now after years of practice. 

Automan


----------



## Chris018

thanks automan that is a very nice compliment. if it wasn't for you and Huntinsker putting this thread together i would of never tried something like this. I have seen some really nice string come out as a result of this thread and hope that mine will be as good.

i have a question about the twist rate that is used in the formula. is it a set number or can you play with it. at the beginning of the thread it is stated at .75 then later in the thread i saw it at .66. is there a way to calculate what it should be or is it more up to the builder to determine it as to the number of twists they like in a string?


----------



## jameswk

You will be amazed at your progression.. I was looking at my early work shaking my head saying... " i wouldn't let that out the door now" keep it up


----------



## jameswk

Bownut400 said:


> Yes you would be correct in the adding spring tension and being unable to add tension to the spring causing uneven strand tension. It was not a rocket science idea but useful. The wood block it a good idea.


Here you go Butch. and anyone using a BAP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05qr_WEGAaQ


----------



## K.G.K.

Im still using the original string jig design originally posted by Automan. I havent kept up with this thread but so impressed as to its longevity! 

Have there been any significant changes to the original design and what post to read on it (if even applicable)?

KGK


----------



## K.G.K.

I should say that I have made the changes as shown in Huntinsker's design, ie steel spacers, stronger spring etc.

KGK


----------



## Bownut400

jameswk said:


> Here you go Butch. and anyone using a BAP
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05qr_WEGAaQ


Thanks James


----------



## Purka

automan26 said:


> You are progressing nicely and are farther along than you think. This pic is a promo pic lifted from the webpage of a pro builder. You are starting out where he is at now after years of practice.
> 
> Automan


Interesting concept to take the lean out of a binary cam.


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Im still using the original string jig design originally posted by Automan. I havent kept up with this thread but so impressed as to its longevity!
> 
> Have there been any significant changes to the original design and what post to read on it (if even applicable)?
> 
> KGK





K.G.K. said:


> I should say that I have made the changes as shown in Huntinsker's design, ie steel spacers, stronger spring etc.
> 
> KGK


Nope not really. Just a lot of good brainstorming and modifications off of the existing design.


----------



## Chris018

wanted to say thank you to 2X Lung for the pin strip video he made i utilized the weaving method that he shows and the ends turned out much cleaner I will try and get pics up today.


----------



## K.G.K.

I see on some of the jigs the allthread are cut at the ends to create a flat spot where the pin goes. Is there a reason for this? Does it center the string with the allthread and create a straighter pull?

KGK


----------



## automan26

Chris018 said:


> i have a question about the twist rate that is used in the formula. is it a set number or can you play with it. at the beginning of the thread it is stated at .75 then later in the thread i saw it at .66. is there a way to calculate what it should be or is it more up to the builder to determine it as to the number of twists they like in a string?


The twist rate is not set in stone. Either .75 or .66 will work fine; the only difference will be the number of twist initially installed and the initial jig post setting. In fact, as you go along and develop your own style, you may even discover that there is a different number that works best for your procedure. I have found that for me, .75 works great for most materials, but when I use Fury I like to go with something closer to .66. Fury likes to twist up a bit shorter than most of the other materials and I have found that using fewer twists helps keep me closer to where I want to be. There may be other builders who find that .75 works best for Fury because their building procedure produces a slightly different outcome. It is not impossible for two different builders to use the same formula and the same materials, yet come out with a slightly different finished length. 

Twist rate is an individual preference. A few weeks ago I built a set of threads that came out great, but after installing them on the bow I wished that my secondary colors were a bit more visible, so I built the same set of threads for another bow and decreased the twist rate in the formula slightly. The second set came out spot-on, but the secondary colors stood out a bit better.

You are doing great, keep it. I can already see that you are hooked.

Automan


----------



## Chris018

here is a pic of my second attempt at ends much happier with these. this is a red with black pin strip control cable for my hoyt charger.


----------



## automan26

K.G.K. said:


> I see on some of the jigs the allthread are cut at the ends to create a flat spot where the pin goes. Is there a reason for this? Does it center the string with the allthread and create a straighter pull?
> 
> KGK


I think either method works equally well. The only reason I chose insert the post through the nut was due to my efforts to make the jig as simple to build as possible. I wanted to produce a flat spot below the post without having to machine or cut anything and the flats on the nut produced just what I was looking for. Also, at the time I designed my jig I was unsure as to the amount of tension a post running only through the all-thread could handle. I used the nut to beef up the amount of metal holding the post.

When mounting the post to the flat spot on the all-thread, the string twists along its axis and that works fine. When attaching the post through the nut the string bundles tend to wrap around each other rather than producing a straight twist. Both methods work just fine, so it simply boils down to the preference of the builder.

Automan


----------



## automan26

Chris018 said:


> here is a pic of my second attempt at ends much happier with these. this is a red with black pin strip control cable for my hoyt charger.
> View attachment 4005226


Those loops are spot-on. You are progressing at a fine pace. Using those loops along with proper stretching and relaxing time will produce a string that is as good, and often better, than anything you are going to purchase. Besides, there is no price you can put on a set of threads you built yourself.

GREAT WORK MY FRIEND.

Automan


----------



## automan26

Chris018,
One hint: You might want to wrap a few more winds of serving under which you pull your tag when tying the black end serving. I am sure that what you have there will probably hold OK considering that you melted the ball on the end of the serving after pulling it through, but a bit more won't hurt a bit. I would recommend tripling the number of wraps you have above the melted ball.

Automan


----------



## Chris018

automan26 said:


> Chris018,
> One hint: You might want to wrap a few more winds of serving under which you pull your tag when tying the black end serving. I am sure that what you have there will probably hold OK considering that you melted the ball on the end of the serving after pulling it through, but a bit more won't hurt a bit. I would recommend tripling the number of wraps you have above the melted ball.
> 
> Automan


thanks great tip. i was thinking that i may need more. will do it on the bus cable which i am going to make today. will post pics thanks again


----------



## Chris018

here is the buss cable. i did the .66 twist rate. I like it much better.


----------



## jameswk

Bownut400 said:


> Thanks James


You bet!


----------



## screamrider

Finally made my first string over the weekend and it went much better than I could have imagined - thanks entirely to this thread!

Hoping folks can help me with the following small issues I encountered. 

I'm using a 4 post for lay up with served end loops.

1. When I served the end loops on the 4 post the string twisted a bit (just between the posts at each end on each side of the serving). When I transferred the string to the stretcher and separated the bundles, one end was fine, but the other end had about 3-4 twists between my string separator and the serving (on each leg). It seems like there is no way to keep the twists from happening when serving the end loops due to the serving pulling the layed up strings together. Any advice?

2. What poundage should I be serving at? I tried 300, but I couldn't close the end loops, so backed it off to around 100. Once I closed the end loop and served about an inch, I cranked it back up to 300 to finish the end serving. Is there a better way to do this - closing the end loop was the issue I had at 300 lbs. Also, I was serving from the loop towards the center.

3. The tag ends caused me some grief when doing my end servings, as I cut and burned them after serving the end loops on the 4 post. This left some bumps that created difficulty when end serving. After I serve the end loops on my 4 post, can I just simply cut the tag ends flush to the serving?

4. When starting my end serving, how many wraps should I put down over the initial end to lock it down? 

5. Also, how many back serves are recommended?

That's all for now, appreciate your help with my questions.


----------



## K.G.K.

1. When I served the end loops on the 4 post the string twisted a bit (just between the posts at each end on each side of the serving). When I transferred the string to the stretcher and separated the bundles, one end was fine, but the other end had about 3-4 twists between my string separator and the serving (on each leg). It seems like there is no way to keep the twists from happening when serving the end loops due to the serving pulling the layed up strings together. Any advice?

I am no expert here but I too had that problem. I put golf tees on all for corners (long side of string, not on the inside where your serving) to keep the strands separated so that when the narrow section your serving tends to unwind, all the strands are in proper position. I hope that makes sense. 

I like serving the end loops but there can be an argument made to tag end serving too. Ive done both. Having to back serve the tag ends against the served loops creates a lot of bulk to serve over (after twist and stretching). I keep tag ends long and secure them to the opposite end(s) during stretching, and then clip them flush to the end serving right before I twist the string to length to ensure they don't slide out under the served end loops and it works much better.


----------



## screamrider

K.G.K. said:


> I am no expert here but I too had that problem. I put golf tees on all for corners (long side of string, not on the inside where your serving) to keep the strands separated so that when the narrow section your serving tends to unwind, all the strands are in proper position. I hope that makes sense.


Great idea on the golf tees. Just to confirm, you simply insert them so ther are horizontal to the floor, separating each color bundle? Does that stop the string between the end loop serving and post (short side of string) from twisting?



K.G.K. said:


> I like serving the end loops but there can be an argument made to tag end serving too. Ive done both. Having to back serve the tag ends against the served loops creates a lot of bulk to serve over (after twist and stretching). I keep tag ends long and secure them to the opposite end(s) during stretching, and then clip them flush to the end serving right before I twist the string to length to ensure they don't slide out under the served end loops and it works much better.


So for your tag ends, you have them long enough to attach to the far post during initial stretching (before twisting)?


----------



## Huntinsker

screamrider said:


> Finally made my first string over the weekend and it went much better than I could have imagined - thanks entirely to this thread!
> 
> Hoping folks can help me with the following small issues I encountered.
> 
> I'm using a 4 post for lay up with served end loops.
> 
> 1. When I served the end loops on the 4 post the string twisted a bit (just between the posts at each end on each side of the serving). When I transferred the string to the stretcher and separated the bundles, one end was fine, but the other end had about 3-4 twists between my string separator and the serving (on each leg). It seems like there is no way to keep the twists from happening when serving the end loops due to the serving pulling the layed up strings together. Any advice?
> 
> 2. What poundage should I be serving at? I tried 300, but I couldn't close the end loops, so backed it off to around 100. Once I closed the end loop and served about an inch, I cranked it back up to 300 to finish the end serving. Is there a better way to do this - closing the end loop was the issue I had at 300 lbs. Also, I was serving from the loop towards the center.
> 
> 3. The tag ends caused me some grief when doing my end servings, as I cut and burned them after serving the end loops on the 4 post. This left some bumps that created difficulty when end serving. After I serve the end loops on my 4 post, can I just simply cut the tag ends flush to the serving?
> 
> 4. When starting my end serving, how many wraps should I put down over the initial end to lock it down?
> 
> 5. Also, how many back serves are recommended?
> 
> That's all for now, appreciate your help with my questions.


1. I haven't served my loops but I would imagine if you were to put a separator of some sort angling across the inside of the posts from the short end space to the long side space, that would stop the string from twisting as much while serving the end loops. Like what skynight did on page 134 post #3343. Also may have too much tension on the jig. 

2. You should serve with at least 300lbs on the string. What you did by starting the loop at 100 and then cranking it back up to 300 is perfectly fine. I do the same except in reverse order since I serve towards the loops.

3. If you're having trouble with the tag ends creating bumps at the ends of your loop serving, I'd just cut them flush. Make sure you do enough back wraps to hold them in place though. 

4. I like to have 10-15 wraps over my tag ends at the loops.

5. I like to do at least 10 back wraps but usually do 15 at the ends of serving.


----------



## screamrider

Huntinsker said:


> 1. I haven't served my loops but I would imagine if you were to put a separator of some sort angling across the inside of the posts from the short end space to the long side space, that would stop the string from twisting as much while serving the end loops. Like what skynight did on page 134 post #3343. Also may have too much tension on the jig.


Ahhh, that looks like a great solution, thanks!!



Huntinsker said:


> 2. You should serve with at least 300lbs on the string. What you did by starting the loop at 100 and then cranking it back up to 300 is perfectly fine. I do the same except in reverse order since I serve towards the loops.


Great. So I can start at 100, close the loop, increase to 300, complete the end serving, back to 100 to close the other end's loop, then back to 300 to finish the other end serving?



Huntinsker said:


> 3. If you're having trouble with the tag ends creating bumps at the ends of your loop serving, I'd just cut them flush. Make sure you do enough back wraps to hold them in place though.


I didn't do any back wraps with the tag ends - After I did the end loop servings I just cut and burned the tag ends as I saw somewhere in this thread. I haven't even built the cables yet, so should I scrap this string and start again? The length worked out perfectly to 1/16 of an inch, but was this a fatal flaw? Are you basically just backserving the string tag end back towards the end loop serving?

[/QUOTE]


----------



## Huntinsker

screamrider said:


> Ahhh, that looks like a great solution, thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> Great. So I can start at 100, close the loop, increase to 300, complete the end serving, back to 100 to close the other end's loop, then back to 300 to finish the other end serving?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't do any back wraps with the tag ends - After I did the end loop servings I just cut and burned the tag ends as I saw somewhere in this thread. I haven't even built the cables yet, so should I scrap this string and start again? The length worked out perfectly to 1/16 of an inch, but was this a fatal flaw? Are you basically just backserving the string tag end back towards the end loop serving?


[/QUOTE]

Yes you can start the tension low to close the loops and then increase it to 300 to finish the serving. There's a lot of us that do that. 

I may have not been specific enough when talking about the "tag ends". I meant the serving tag ends that you burned and that made the little bumps. Those can be cut flush if you've already pulled them tight to lock it down. That way you don't have the bumps. Just make sure that your serve over them enough with the end serving to ensure that they don't come loose. They probably wouldn't anyway but some cams put some pressure on that area and you'd hate to have them come undone on you. 

If your string worked out the correct length, I'd stick with it. You don't have to back wrap the tag ends on the string material if you don't want. You may not have any trouble with slipping. Some people never do more than just serve over them and they do okay.


----------



## screamrider

I really appreciate your clarification and all your work on this thread! It was the string tag ends that were causing me grief as I cut and burned them, leaving small lumps. Now I'm just debating between cutting them flush right to the loop serving, or leaving a quarter inch and just laying it down and serving over it with the end serving?

I'll apply all your tips to my cables and see how they turn out.


----------



## Chris018

I am wondering if there is a specific way to serve if you know that the string is going to be making some sharp turns. the control cable on my hoyt charger makes some really sharp turns on the bottom cam. do you serve tighter to avoid serving seperation (i am serving pretty tight as it is).


----------



## Pmaurer

This post is FANTASTIC. Thank you!


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> 1. I haven't served my loops but I would imagine if you were to put a separator of some sort angling across the inside of the posts from the short end space to the long side space, that would stop the string from twisting as much while serving the end loops. Like what skynight did on page 134 post #3343. Also may have too much tension on the jig.
> 
> 2. You should serve with at least 300lbs on the string. What you did by starting the loop at 100 and then cranking it back up to 300 is perfectly fine. I do the same except in reverse order since I serve towards the loops.
> 
> 3. If you're having trouble with the tag ends creating bumps at the ends of your loop serving, I'd just cut them flush. Make sure you do enough back wraps to hold them in place though.
> 
> 4. I like to have 10-15 wraps over my tag ends at the loops.
> 
> 5. I like to do at least 10 back wraps but usually do 15 at the ends of serving.


Yes, Huntinsker described it in his #1 point more eloquently. 

Yes, I keep the tags long during stretching. Once they slightly slid through my end serving during stretching, so I dont chance it. Keep them long and secured to the opposite post until ready to twist. Then I cut them flush, twist and restretch. Relax the bundle, measure and serve.

KGK


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris018 said:


> I am wondering if there is a specific way to serve if you know that the string is going to be making some sharp turns. the control cable on my hoyt charger makes some really sharp turns on the bottom cam. do you serve tighter to avoid serving seperation (i am serving pretty tight as it is).


Not really. Just serve good and tight and hope it won't separate. You may try using a different material like BCY Powergrip that might hold better. I like braided materials like Powergrip and Halo in situations like you're describing over twisted materials like 2d and 3d.


----------



## Chris018

Huntinsker said:


> Not really. Just serve good and tight and hope it won't separate. You may try using a different material like BCY Powergrip that might hold better. I like braided materials like Powergrip and Halo in situations like you're describing over twisted materials like 2d and 3d.


i am using halo .014. because i am new to this i thought i would ask. Also how much of a difference is the brownell fury to the BCY X. i have seen some really nice stuff from 2X and i think some of Huntinsker's are fury as well.


----------



## screamrider

First attempt and I'm hooked! Overall I'm pretty happy how they turned out. I learned a ton and already want to start building another set, haha.

Awesome thread, couldn't have done this without it!


----------



## deerbum

The post set to finished length seem about the same in my limited experience of using BCY-X having used Fury more often. The Fury will make a more compact roundish bundle than the X, but I really do like how the X shoots though. The Fury will fuzz less but I have not shot my X sets enough for them to see any fuzzing yet. So for me personally I can't say that I prefer one over the other, I build strings for fun so if a string starts fuzzing that's a great excuse to make another. I replaced a set during the rut last season after shooting several deer with it- the string was fine just wanted to brush up on my skills and ended up shooting a buck a few days later with the new set. String replacement or even center servings unraveling during the peak of the rut used to be a nightmare scenario for me, now not so much thanks mostly to this thread. At this point how my servings look is more important to me than color combos or the compactness of the string bundle. If I was building for others I would probably stick with Fury or perhaps try 8190f.


----------



## screamrider

The next significant issue I need to overcome is how to make the twists near the end of the strings as consistent as the center. What I did for my cables (that needed 24.5 twists) was twist 15 times with the string separators in each end (BAP separators). Then I chased the pin stripe, backed off the tension, removed the separators, and kept twisting to 24.5. After removine the separators I found that the twists near the string ends weren't as round (even after burnishing) and the pin stripe wasn't lined up exactly. The middle portion that was twisted with the separators installed looks just fine IMHO. Any advice or change of technique to remedy this?


----------



## Huntinsker

screamrider said:


> The next significant issue I need to overcome is how to make the twists near the end of the strings as consistent as the center. What I did for my cables (that needed 24.5 twists) was twist 15 times with the string separators in each end (BAP separators). Then I chased the pin stripe, backed off the tension, removed the separators, and kept twisting to 24.5. After removine the separators I found that the twists near the string ends weren't as round (even after burnishing) and the pin stripe wasn't lined up exactly. The middle portion that was twisted with the separators installed looks just fine IMHO. Any advice or change of technique to remedy this?


I've never seen the BAP separators but if the separator is too wide, it can cause the bundle to not lay down quite as round. It doesn't matter a whole lot since you'll be serving over them in most cases.

I don't bother to chase the pins until I've twisted completely. I'll put in 1/2-2/3 the amount of twists then pull my golf tees out to finish the twisting. Once I've twisted fully, then I'll chase the pins, then tension to my stretching weight and burnish.


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris018 said:


> i am using halo .014. because i am new to this i thought i would ask. Also how much of a difference is the brownell fury to the BCY X. i have seen some really nice stuff from 2X and i think some of Huntinsker's are fury as well.


Pick your poison. Both are good materials. I like Fury a little better because it makes a better looking string, IMO, and performs every bit as well if not a little better. If you build them correctly, the set will be great with either Fury or X.


----------



## screamrider

Huntinsker said:


> I've never seen the BAP separators but if the separator is too wide, it can cause the bundle to not lay down quite as round. It doesn't matter a whole lot since you'll be serving over them in most cases.
> 
> I don't bother to chase the pins until I've twisted completely. I'll put in 1/2-2/3 the amount of twists then pull my golf tees out to finish the twisting. Once I've twisted fully, then I'll chase the pins, then tension to my stretching weight and burnish.


Much appreciated, I'll try that with cable number two tonight!


----------



## automan26

screamrider said:


> First attempt and I'm hooked! Overall I'm pretty happy how they turned out. I learned a ton and already want to start building another set, haha.
> 
> Awesome thread, couldn't have done this without it!
> 
> View attachment 4017050
> View attachment 4017058
> View attachment 4017066
> View attachment 4017074


Early on in this thread some took issue with the idea that string building was a craft that could be learned fairly quickly. Your pics are proof that those fun-suckers were wrong. If I had built a set of loops that looked that good, I would post them up and brag. For your first time out of the shoot, those loops look amazing. You are correct about being hooked; it happens to everyone. String building is a fantastic element to this great sport and can bring one almost as much enjoyment as bust'n Xs.

Automan


----------



## screamrider

automan26 said:


> Early on in this thread some took issue with the idea that string building was a craft that could be learned fairly quickly. Your pics are proof that those fun-suckers were wrong. If I had built a set of loops that looked that good, I would post them up and brag. For your first time out of the shoot, those loops look amazing. You are correct about being hooked; it happens to everyone. String building is a fantastic element to this great sport and can bring one almost as much enjoyment as bust'n Xs.
> 
> Automan


Appreciate the kind words. You and Huntinsker are a credit to archers; this thread is fantastic and the help you both happily offer is invaluable!


----------



## nuthinbutnock

screamrider said:


> First attempt and I'm hooked! Overall I'm pretty happy how they turned out. I learned a ton and already want to start building another set, haha.
> 
> Awesome thread, couldn't have done this without it!
> 
> View attachment 4017050
> View attachment 4017058
> View attachment 4017066
> View attachment 4017074


Do you find using the string separators when serving the end loops helps with string twist?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screamrider

nuthinbutnock said:


> Do you find using the string separators when serving the end loops helps with string twist?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Absolutely, it completely eliminated any twists. I have a smaller set of separators that I will try tonight.


----------



## jvan97

Lets see what you guys have made to twist up your threads!i need to make something. Stretcher and jig almost complete.


----------



## BlindBuck

screamrider said:


> First attempt and I'm hooked! Overall I'm pretty happy how they turned out. I learned a ton and already want to start building another set, haha.
> 
> Awesome thread, couldn't have done this without it!
> 
> View attachment 4017050
> View attachment 4017058
> View attachment 4017066
> View attachment 4017074


First that is a beyond fantastic start! Great looking end loops you have there. 

Question - Did you make the four post setup you are using? Looks very well built.


----------



## Sinister01

BlindBuck said:


> First that is a beyond fantastic start! Great looking end loops you have there.
> 
> Question - Did you make the four post setup you are using? Looks very well built.


can't speak for scream but I'm almost positive that is a munch mount setup.


----------



## chasemukluk

Okay, I have what may be a dumb question. Just bought some serving material from 60x. Never purchased from him before. Since I can't find the end of the serving, I am assuming I cut the knot he has tied in? I'd just do it, but the stuff isint cheap...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## chasemukluk

chasemukluk said:


> Okay, I have what may be a dumb question. Just bought some serving material from 60x. Never purchased from him before. Since I can't find the end of the serving, I am assuming I cut the knot he has tied in? I'd just do it, but the stuff isint cheap...
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Just risked it. All good. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## chasemukluk

First served cable end on my first cable ever built. I wish it was a little more smooth where it goes over the section I back served with the tag ends. How do I smooth that out a bit?









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## Huntinsker

Practice


----------



## doulos

This thread is too big and Im sure this has been covered. But when I search this site I can't come to a consistent answer. My question is …..Is there any reason to pre stretch at more than 300 lbs?


----------



## screamrider

Sinister01 said:


> can't speak for scream but I'm almost positive that is a munch mount setup.


You got it, it's a Munchmount. The setup works great and he's a solid guy to deal with!


----------



## BlindBuck

Sinister01 said:


> can't speak for scream but I'm almost positive that is a munch mount setup.





screamrider said:


> You got it, it's a Munchmount. The setup works great and he's a solid guy to deal with!


Thanks guys. I've been trying to to get just the two post swing arm set for my Little Jon so I have a four post setup. He's just been hard to get a hold of; not even sure if he is still making the jigs.


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## nuthinbutnock

Finally got my jig done and made my first string today. It's not completely finished yet, I have to finish stretching and serve it, but it's definitely and awesome feeling. I'll have to put some pics up tonight when it's finished.










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## doulos

BlindBuck said:


> Thanks guys. I've been trying to to get just the two post swing arm set for my Little Jon so I have a four post setup. He's just been hard to get a hold of; not even sure if he is still making the jigs.


He has had health issues. PM him through this site. I just contacted him through a PM here and ordered a dvd…


----------



## b0w_bender

doulos said:


> This thread is too big and Im sure this has been covered. But when I search this site I can't come to a consistent answer. My question is …..Is there any reason to pre stretch at more than 300 lbs?


Ya we kind of need a table of contents with links to the relevant bits. 300 pounds is the manufactures recommendation. They say that you'll start to get fiber degradation if you tension it much over that. Now if you happen to be an American we like to do things in excess, so if a little will work then a whole lot has got to be better. Well in this case I would prefer not to damage the string and I've found no reason to stretch beyond the 300 pounds. If you have a solid flex free jig there shouldn't be any reason to tension above 300 pounds. IMHO and experience.


----------



## b0w_bender

Oh I thought I might as well slap a picture up on here for future reference of my latest creation. "bobbin-Ultimate.
Here is a link to the thread
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3726674


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> This thread is too big and Im sure this has been covered. But when I search this site I can't come to a consistent answer. My question is …..Is there any reason to pre stretch at more than 300 lbs?


There's no reason to unless you want to. I've stretched at anywhere from 300-425lbs and have never noticed much of a difference. I stretch for a long enough time that I don't think the higher poundage makes much difference. Like b0w_bender says, the manufacturers recommend 300lbs because they say it can degrade the material however I think they're being a little conservative on that number. Either way, 300lbs is plenty.


----------



## automan26

nuthinbutnock said:


> Finally got my jig done and made my first string today. It's not completely finished yet, I have to finish stretching and serve it, but it's definitely and awesome feeling. I'll have to put some pics up tonight when it's finished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your string looks great. I think the pink really pops against the black. Be sure to post us a pic of your finished product, I think it will be sweet!!!!

Here is a small hint---I see that you have back-tied the tag ends. This will leave you with a bumpy transition that your serving tool will not like very well. There are a couple things that will help; First you can either weave the tags through each bundle 5 times or so and let them hang or Second, you can simply serve a long enough section on each bundle so that the served area will get twisted up into the string when the twists are added. When you serve over the tag ends the serving will lock things in place very nicely. For years I never tied off my tags; I simply allowed them to wrap up inside the twists and everything went perfectly. Lately I have been weaving the tags through the bundles (for whatever reason I don't know) and that works well. Also, if you stagger the ends of your servings you will allow the serving tool to more easily step up, one side at a time, and your end serving will be less likely to separate during the transition.

I love those colors you put together. It just so happens that I have some flo pink material on order right now. I once got some pink material in some spools I purchased from someone else and I never thought I would use it, but lately have I found that it makes some awesome strings, especially pink pinstripes. Pink does a fantastic job of breaking up the other colors in a string and makes everything pop.

Your string looks great!!!!!!

Automan


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## nuthinbutnock

automan26 said:


> Your string looks great. I think the pink really pops against the black. Be sure to post us a pic of your finished product, I think it will be sweet!!!!
> 
> Here is a small hint---I see that you have back-tied the tag ends. This will leave you with a bumpy transition that your serving tool will not like very well. There are a couple things that will help; First you can either weave the tags through each bundle 5 times or so and let them hang or Second, you can simply serve a long enough section on each bundle so that the served area will get twisted up into the string when the twists are added. When you serve over the tag ends the serving will lock things in place very nicely. For years I never tied off my tags; I simply allowed them to wrap up inside the twists and everything went perfectly. Lately I have been weaving the tags through the bundles (for whatever reason I don't know) and that works well. Also, if you stagger the ends of your servings you will allow the serving tool to more easily step up, one side at a time, and your end serving will be less likely to separate during the transition.
> 
> I love those colors you put together. It just so happens that I have some flo pink material on order right now. I once got some pink material in some spools I purchased from someone else and I never thought I would use it, but lately have I found that it makes some awesome strings, especially pink pinstripes. Pink does a fantastic job of breaking up the other colors in a string and makes everything pop.
> 
> Your string looks great!!!!!!
> 
> Automan


Thank you. My daughter wanted purple and black and I told her that the 2 dark colors together just wouldn't look right, so I went out yesterday and bought this flo purple (I know, looks pink to me too lol). 

Thank you for the tips, I really appreciate it. I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by weaving the bundles though, I'm new to tag end serving. I started out trying to serve the end loops, but every time I turned my jig posts, the strings popped off. After getting very frustrated and walking away for a bit, I figured I'd try tag end serving them. I really like that method actually. 

The ends being even was a stupid mistake on my part, I knew better but when I back served, they ended up the same length. 

Thank you for the compliments, I'll definitely post pics when it's done. 


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## automan26

When weaving, after you have served what you want, separate the colors and wrap that tag around only one color; in your case you might choose to wrap about five or 10 or so wraps around the purple. When you remove whatever you are using for a separator (golf tee) your tag end will be captured in the middle of the bundle. This will secure the tag nicely. Do this for each tag end. I like to let my tags hang until my serving tool gets close to the hanging tag, then I hork down on the tag to make sure it is nice and tight, cut it flush and serve over it. This process allows for a very smooth transition from the string to the served loop area.

You are doing great--Keep at it. I can tell that you are hooked and that ain't a bad thing.

I am so hooked that I am actually thinking about making myself a set of pinstripe shoe laces.

Automan


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## nuthinbutnock

Thank you. That makes sense, I'll try that with the cables 


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## jvan97

There are many guys that stretch past 300.sum very well known people in the industry


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## Chris018

nuthinbutnock, i did the same thing on my first set and like automan said it left a lumpy transition. i tried the weaving method and found it to be much better. you will like it


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## chasemukluk

automan26 said:


> When weaving, after you have served what you want, separate the colors and wrap that tag around only one color; in your case you might choose to wrap about five or 10 or so wraps around the purple. When you remove whatever you are using for a separator (golf tee) your tag end will be captured in the middle of the bundle. This will secure the tag nicely. Do this for each tag end. I like to let my tags hang until my serving tool gets close to the hanging tag, then I hork down on the tag to make sure it is nice and tight, cut it flush and serve over it. This process allows for a very smooth transition from the string to the served loop area.
> 
> You are doing great--Keep at it. I can tell that you are hooked and that ain't a bad thing.
> 
> I am so hooked that I am actually thinking about making myself a set of pinstripe shoe laces.
> 
> Automan


Do you wrap tight or spread out. I mean, like this \\\\\\ or like this \ \ \ \ 


Chris018 said:


> nuthinbutnock, i did the same thing on my first set and like automan said it left a lumpy transition. i tried the weaving method and found it to be much better. you will like it



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## Chris018

I weave tight. there is a member of this thread 2X Lung that made a video in it he shows how he weaves. i use this method. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


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## Grimaxe

WOW comprehensive. Thanks so much.


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## nuthinbutnock

automan26 said:


> Your string looks great. I think the pink really pops against the black. Be sure to post us a pic of your finished product, I think it will be sweet!!!!
> 
> Here is a small hint---I see that you have back-tied the tag ends. This will leave you with a bumpy transition that your serving tool will not like very well. There are a couple things that will help; First you can either weave the tags through each bundle 5 times or so and let them hang or Second, you can simply serve a long enough section on each bundle so that the served area will get twisted up into the string when the twists are added. When you serve over the tag ends the serving will lock things in place very nicely. For years I never tied off my tags; I simply allowed them to wrap up inside the twists and everything went perfectly. Lately I have been weaving the tags through the bundles (for whatever reason I don't know) and that works well. Also, if you stagger the ends of your servings you will allow the serving tool to more easily step up, one side at a time, and your end serving will be less likely to separate during the transition.
> 
> I love those colors you put together. It just so happens that I have some flo pink material on order right now. I once got some pink material in some spools I purchased from someone else and I never thought I would use it, but lately have I found that it makes some awesome strings, especially pink pinstripes. Pink does a fantastic job of breaking up the other colors in a string and makes everything pop.
> 
> Your string looks great!!!!!!
> 
> Automan


Finally finished my daughters strings. Sorry, I couldn't seem to get a good picture of them but here they are. Not the best, but I'm proud of my first set. I'm hoping she loves them.


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## automan26

Those threads look great; I wish I could see them in person.

I couldn't help but notice your press. I have one just like it, but I used a Harbor Freight trailer jack and some metal straps and turned it into a version of the Sure-Loc X-Press.

Your daughter should flip out over those threads.

Automan


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## nuthinbutnock

automan26 said:


> Those threads look great; I wish I could see them in person.
> 
> I couldn't help but notice your press. I have one just like it, but I used a Harbor Freight trailer jack and some metal straps and turned it into a version of the Sure-Loc X-Press.
> 
> Your daughter should flip out over those threads.
> 
> Automan


Thank you. If you don't mind sharing how did that press maybe you could fill me in. I hate dealing with the chains and stuff on this one but I got it for $50 so I can't complain. I'm trying to find a reasonable inline press right now.


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## nuthinbutnock

Just finished my second set of threads, this time purple and green for my son. Each string looks better than the last and after taking automans advice on the end looks, they look much better










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## Chris018

Joker threads..... looks great


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## nuthinbutnock

Thanks 


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## chasemukluk

Just finished my first set on the El Cheapo Deluxe. Thanks for everything you all have shared to help make this possible. Can't wait to make my next set!









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## nuthinbutnock

Very nice


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## automan26

chasemukluk said:


> Just finished my first set on the El Cheapo Deluxe. Thanks for everything you all have shared to help make this possible. Can't wait to make my next set!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Holy Neon Batman!!!! Those look great  You nailed it. I would love to see what those do in the sunlight. 

I want to just jump up and down and squeal every time I see someone post up a first set of threads that look that awesome. If you can start out this good on the first shot, you have some killer threads in your future.

Automan


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## chasemukluk

automan26 said:


> Holy Neon Batman!!!! Those look great  You nailed it. I would love to see what those do in the sunlight.
> 
> I want to just jump up and down and squeal every time I see someone post up a first set of threads that look that awesome. If you can start out this good on the first shot, you have some killer threads in your future.
> 
> Automan


This is actually my Dad's bow, but I will shoot it a bunch before I give it back to him. Excited to start my threads for my target bow, and then eventually my hunting/3d bow. 

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## Chris018

I am noticing that the strut on my jig is flexing while stretching. I have 2 pieces of strut the top one is 1-5/8 and the bottom one is 7/8. what issues will the flexing cause? I am still getting 350lbs on the string while stretching.


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## K.G.K.

Me too ... it got worse. I think the brackets lose their integrity. My threaded rod's threads would catch on the hole and deactivate the spring. I decided to modify it and weld a front brace.

KGK


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## automan26

I have been building everything on a single channel for years and have never had the need to double up. I just finished a complete set of threads yesterday without a single issue.

Going double sure won't hurt, but single works fine for me.

Automan


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## K.G.K.

I may have misunderstood. My actual jig would flex forward towards each other when I would stretch the string and it kept getting worse. Not sure about the strut. 

KGK


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## automan26

K.G.K. said:


> I may have misunderstood. My actual jig would flex forward towards each other when I would stretch the string and it kept getting worse. Not sure about the strut.
> 
> KGK


That is interesting. I cranked my jig to the max and the flex was only about 1/4"+ which means about 1/8"-3/16" per side. I put it on a friend's Unistrut that was mounted to a bench and cranked it to the max. We both stood back and eyeballed it and there was no noticeable flex that we could discern. When I build a string I lay one side of my channel on the top of a tool box and the other side on the back of a kitchen chair and have not experienced any problems even though the strut is flexing a bit.

Maybe your threads are catching on the hole through the corner brackets and this is producing some extra leverage which is contributing to excessive flex of the corner brackets. The holes my bolts go through are a very sloppy fit with a bevel ground on each side of the holes. I looked at one of my jigs under full tension and it almost appeared the the carriage bolts I used were floating through the center of the hole. I would check to see if there is any binding. You might also measure across the tops of your corner brackets before and after you apply full tension and see just how much flexing is actually happening. I would be interested in finding out what is going on so we could help others who may be having a similar problem.

Automan


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## Chris018

could the flexing in the strut cause stability issues in the string ?


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## automan26

Chris018 said:


> could the flexing in the strut cause stability issues in the string ?


I have never had a problem with mine. 

Automan


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## K.G.K.

automan26 said:


> That is interesting. I cranked my jig to the max and the flex was only about 1/4"+ which means about 1/8"-3/16" per side. I put it on a friend's Unistrut that was mounted to a bench and cranked it to the max. We both stood back and eyeballed it and there was no noticeable flex that we could discern. When I build a string I lay one side of my channel on the top of a tool box and the other side on the back of a kitchen chair and have not experienced any problems even though the strut is flexing a bit.
> 
> Maybe your threads are catching on the hole through the corner brackets and this is producing some extra leverage which is contributing to excessive flex of the corner brackets. The holes my bolts go through are a very sloppy fit with a bevel ground on each side of the holes. I looked at one of my jigs under full tension and it almost appeared the the carriage bolts I used were floating through the center of the hole. I would check to see if there is any binding. You might also measure across the tops of your corner brackets before and after you apply full tension and see just how much flexing is actually happening. I would be interested in finding out what is going on so we could help others who may be having a similar problem.
> 
> Automan


Thanks. My strut is flat and isnt flexing. I have mine clamped down on an 8' bench. My non spring side of the jig started leaning forward nearly 1/2". 

I think you nailed it, I bet I need more slop in my bracket's rod holes and possibly bevel the openings.

I think the thread was catching and causing the jig to bend forward. 

KGK


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## Chris018

how long do you guys stretch your stings and cables for. I do an hour on cables and 2 hours on strings. I let them rest for min 4 hours usually over night. then back on the stretcher to check length and serve.


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## K.G.K.

What size hole did you drill for the allthread? Wonder how much slop is good to keep it from possibly binding under pressure. 

KGK


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## automan26

K.G.K. said:


> What size hole did you drill for the allthread? Wonder how much slop is good to keep it from possibly binding under pressure.
> 
> KGK


I use a grinder and grind until the ends of the bolt can be rocked up and down quite a bit. I have never really measured the size of the hole. Very sloppy is your goal. Also make sure that the bevel is substantial. The bevel has a lot to do with reducing binding.

Automan


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## automan26

Chris018 said:


> how long do you guys stretch your stings and cables for. I do an hour on cables and 2 hours on strings. I let them rest for min 4 hours usually over night. then back on the stretcher to check length and serve.


That's about what I do. Sometimes I go a little more than an hour on the cables.

Automan


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## BlindBuck

Has anyone tried .014 BCY Power Grip for end servings? Starting to run low on white and black Halo and was contemplating trying this instead. It's all I've been using for center servings (.018) and seems to hold up very well.


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## nuthinbutnock

BlindBuck said:


> Has anyone tried .014 BCY Power Grip for end servings? Starting to run low on white and black Halo and was contemplating trying this instead. It's all I've been using for center servings (.018) and seems to hold up very well.


How do you like the power grip for the center servings? I did my kids with halo but I have power grip for my line, hopefully I'll get to make mine this week.


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## b0w_bender

Just wondering what you guys think of this idea. I modified my Beiter with a coat hanger and a machine screw so that the thread stays in the slot. Let me know what you think?


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## Telluarcher

automan26 said:


> I want to just jump up and down and squeal every time I see someone post up a first set of threads that look that awesome.
> 
> Automan


Thank you Automan!! I think it is because of you and Huntinsker and quite a few others that post on this thread regularly, that a lot of us have tried this now. The unrelenting support is greatly appreciated, and along with the communities help, has made this about as easy to understand as is possible without being beside someone showing them exactly how to do it. Thanks again and keep up the great work!


----------



## BlindBuck

nuthinbutnock said:


> How do you like the power grip for the center servings? I did my kids with halo but I have power grip for my line, hopefully I'll get to make mine this week.


Works great for center serving and I definitely prefer it over 62xs.


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## Huntinsker

b0w_bender said:


> Just wondering what you guys think of this idea. I modified my Beiter with a coat hanger and a machine screw so that the thread stays in the slot. Let me know what you think?


Looks like it would work well. I've not really had a problem with anything other than some .002 stuff that I use and really that's not that much of a problem if I remember to have the opening of the slot pointing towards the direction of travel so that it pulls the serving into the slot instead of out. Wouldn't have to worry about it either way with your addition though.


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## nuthinbutnock

b0w_bender said:


> Just wondering what you guys think of this idea. I modified my Beiter with a coat hanger and a machine screw so that the thread stays in the slot. Let me know what you think?


I like that. I've had my string slip out a few times if I wasn't paying attention and pulled the wrong way


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## MHoward

b0w_bender said:


> Just wondering what you guys think of this idea. I modified my Beiter with a coat hanger and a machine screw so that the thread stays in the slot. Let me know what you think?


I might try that. I use this jig in the Spinner I got from you.....only problem is that halfway down a serving the tension is gone and the nuts have loosened....you ever come across this problem?


----------



## jim p

My unistrut flexed so I screwed it onto a 2"x6"x10' long board and it no longer flexes.



Chris018 said:


> could the flexing in the strut cause stability issues in the string ?


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris018 said:


> could the flexing in the strut cause stability issues in the string ?


If the strut is flexing as you lay out the material, the strands on top of the bundle will be slightly shorter than the strands you laid down first. That will cause stability issues. If the jig only flexes when you stretch, then it shouldn't matter. You just don't want it flexing enough to let the loops slide up and off the posts.


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## b0w_bender

MHoward said:


> I might try that. I use this jig in the Spinner I got from you.....only problem is that halfway down a serving the tension is gone and the nuts have loosened....you ever come across this problem?


I mostly use the Emerald bobbin, but I know a lot of people have complained about it. When I used the Beiter exclusively I don't remember having that problem so it's hard for me to comment. I suggested adding a spring between the nut and the washer but I don't know if that will work or not.


----------



## Telluarcher

I asked a while ago about the possibility of using offshore leader crimps as speed nocks. I got some and as was predicted, they in fact did not work. However, in my thoughts about a speed nock system that won't come off the string, I thought about using the lead wire used in fly tying. The following pics show how I attach it to the string. I am also using peep tubing instead of heat shrink. The lead is available in different sizes, so different weights can be easily achieved by changing size. I used .035 on this string, and covered it with serving material. I have no clue how durable it will be yet, as we have gotten 10+ inches of snow since I thought about doing it this way.





















Someone was also asking about the layout marks showing through with clear serving on a different thread. Here is the solution that I made. 







It is simply a cloth tape with a loop I made out of waxed offshore rigging string. Any type of softish material that you can make a loop out of will work, I just have a huge spool of the stuff on my bench. It easily attaches to the post the string is on, and can be picked up and dropped, and still be at the post for easy reference again if needed. I do check it against a steel ruler now and then to make sure it has not slipped at all.

Lastly is my homemade bobbin. I live about 3 hours round trip from the closest shop, and last time I was in, they had no serving tools, so put the cap on, and came up with this. I know it is not great, but it is serving me just fine until the Beiters arrive. Flattened out a couple of L brackets that were laying around for the sides. Wood is just some scrap trim that was in a burn bin.


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## Purka

I like it.


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## doulos

I have a question about end loop servings. Ive seen a few videos on the subject. Butch Baker just made one where he puts 100lbs tension on his 4 post set up before he end serves. In Deezlins string making video he puts 200lbs of tension on the jig before he end serves. Ive seen other videos like Munchs video he puts no tension . And other videos the builder puts no tension on the jig before end loop serving. So what are the advantages for tension? Is it necessary?


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## michaelgentry87

To help equalize strand tension

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## nuthinbutnock

Kind of impressed with the way my first pinstripe strings came out. I really like these










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## doulos

Those are nice looking. I like the color combo.


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## Huntinsker

Looking good nuthinbutnock. That's a great first pinstripe.


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## nuthinbutnock

Thanks guys


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## Telluarcher

Thought I would post these up as well. Don't know about everyone else, but my fingers were getting torn up tying tag ends. I remembered I had these for offshore leader building, so thought I would post a pic and a link. They are cheap, and hold on your fingers well because the backing is elastic. I tried cutting up an old golf glove as well, and the fingers just end up sliding off your fingers too easily. Even if I had all of the material to build these things, I think after time and everything, I can buy them cheaper.








Here is a link. If there is a good offshore fishing store near you, they may have them in stock as well. 
http://www.captharry.com/fishing-accessories/gloves/the-steel-grip-finger-saver.html


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## nuthinbutnock

I like the idea. I wrapped leather around my finger once. It worked but not great


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## Huntinsker

I wrap duct tape around my pinky and index fingers where I was getting cut. Works well and one roll will last a long time.


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## doulos

Don't know if this will work because I have never built a string, But how about just some athletic tape that is used for taping ankles and such?


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## dfivdayz

Hello...I was wondering if someone knows the post that details the string material..count..serving material...for both compound and oly recurve..

Thanks for any help


----------



## Telluarcher

When I used to make a lot of leaders out of monofilament, I tried just about everything. Athletic tape, duct tape, electric tape, various others. The problem I found with tape based products is the residue left on your fingers after removing it. The smooth or semi smooth tapes also allow materials to slide easier. Not necessarily what is wanted when stringmaking. The leather pads grip really well and no residue left on fingers. Can also remove and put them back on easily without needing to re-apply anything. Just my findings.


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## Telluarcher

dfivdayz said:


> Hello...I was wondering if someone knows the post that details the string material..count..serving material...for both compound and oly recurve..
> 
> Thanks for any help


This is the thread for serving specs if that is what you are looking for. Most manufactures list string counts on their websites or on the packaging of the string material. Couple of google searches can also give more info than should be allowed.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247


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## retrieverfishin

doulos said:


> Don't know if this will work because I have never built a string, But how about just some athletic tape that is used for taping ankles and such?


Athletic tape is okay....I have a supply of fabric style band aids stashed close by in case I forget to pull on a spot that is calloused already. That is one of the nastiest paper like cuts I think you can get.


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## dfivdayz

Thanks


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## BlindBuck

retrieverfishin said:


> Athletic tape is okay....I have a supply of fabric style band aids stashed close by in case I forget to pull on a spot that is calloused already. That is one of the nastiest paper like cuts I think you can get.


Yes it is, I always got mine right at the joints and they run deep. They'd also take long to heal. I was using just electrical tape, recently I've been using a batting glove.lol

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## nuthinbutnock

Mines the same, the joint of both index fingers lol


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## caspian

I need to do my pinky, a few slices from braided line while backserving really make me jump. especially when you run one into an existing cut.


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## Chris018

Huntinsker said:


> If the strut is flexing as you lay out the material, the strands on top of the bundle will be slightly shorter than the strands you laid down first. That will cause stability issues. If the jig only flexes when you stretch, then it shouldn't matter. You just don't want it flexing enough to let the loops slide up and off the posts.


it is not flexing during layout only while stretching. thanks


----------



## Chris018

i use hockey tape in the same spots as Hintinsker. works great


----------



## nestly

Chris018 said:


> it is not flexing during layout only while stretching. thanks


Not to doubt you too much, but consider this:
If your strand tension during layout is just 5 lbs, one complete revolution around the string jig (two strands) is 10 pounds, 4 strands is 20 pounds, and 24 strands is theoretically 120 pounds of compression on the jig. In reality, there probably aren't too many string jigs that can withstand 120 pounds with zero flex. If you are in question about whether it really works that way, compare your post distance before and after you've laid up a string.


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Not to doubt you too much, but consider this:
> If your strand tension during layout is just 5 lbs, one complete revolution around the string jig (two strands) is 10 pounds, 4 strands is 20 pounds, and 24 strands is theoretically 120 pounds of compression on the jig. In reality, there probably aren't too many string jigs that can withstand 120 pounds with zero flex. If you are in question about whether it really works that way, compare your post distance before and after you've laid up a string.


Excellent point. Hard not to have a lot of flex while stretching without having a little while laying up. Any flex, especially while laying the bundles out, is too much.


----------



## Chris018

you both make a good point i will try that nestly and see what ends up happening. thanks


----------



## Chris NJ

*Just built my first full set*

I just finished installing the first full set of strings I built on my son's Bowtech Assassin. I've built a bunch of test strings to get the method down, and here is the end result.




















Here are a couple pics of the loops


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris NJ said:


> I just finished installing the first full set of strings I built on my son's Bowtech Assassin. I've built a bunch of test strings to get the method down, and here is the end result.
> View attachment 4090578
> View attachment 4090586
> View attachment 4090594
> 
> 
> Here are a couple pics of the loops
> View attachment 4090642
> View attachment 4090666


Good lord those look good! Well done :set1_applaud:


----------



## BlindBuck

Very nice, those tag ends look great!

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## Chris NJ

Huntinsker said:


> Good lord those look good! Well done :set1_applaud:


Thanks!! Although, I would never have even attempted this without you, automan, 2xlung, and the other folks active on this forum. The info that has been shared on here is incredible. I've read and re-read the posts on here too many times to count. lol 

I hope to get good enough to share with the next group looking to jump into this very addictive activity!


----------



## Chris NJ

BlindBuck said:


> Very nice, those tag ends look great!
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Thanks BlindBuck! I have tried served ends and tag ends, and I decided I like the tag ends best. Still trying to figure out the best way to finish them. I'm liking the weave finish best so far. Way less bulky than backserving.


----------



## caspian

nestly said:


> Not to doubt you too much, but consider this:
> If your strand tension during layout is just 5 lbs, one complete revolution around the string jig (two strands) is 10 pounds, 4 strands is 20 pounds, and 24 strands is theoretically 120 pounds of compression on the jig. In reality, there probably aren't too many string jigs that can withstand 120 pounds with zero flex. If you are in question about whether it really works that way, compare your post distance before and after you've laid up a string.


I don't think the physics works that way. if you have one strand of string at 5lbs, there is 5lbs of force being applied to the jig. if you have 5 strands, there is still only 5lbs being applied to the jig, but the tension is now being shared across all of the individual strands.

think of a recurve bow. if you make a string with one strand at a given length, the bow braces to a certain height, and the one strand takes all the tension force applied by the limbs. if you make a identical length string with 10 strands, the brace height is the same because there is no additional force being applied to the limbs, but each strand of the string only experiences 1/10th of the total tension force.

if tension was indeed cumulative with each strand, the first strand of string would go onto the jig at 5lb. to add 5lb load to the jig would require 10lb of tension in the second strand, which would result in the first strand going slack if the jig flexes at all.


----------



## nestly

caspian said:


> I don't think the physics works that way. if you have one strand of string at 5lbs, there is 5lbs of force being applied to the jig. if you have 5 strands, there is still only 5lbs being applied to the jig, but the tension is now being shared across all of the individual strands.


OK, lets look at from the other side. If each strand is holding 5 pounds and the total force on the jig is only 5 pounds, then each strand in a complete string stretched to 300 pounds, is also holding 300 pounds. Obviously that can not be true since materials such as BCY 452X and Brownell Fury break under 70 lbs. In reality, the total tension is the sum of the tension. If each strand is under 5 pounds of tension, then the whole 24 strand string is under 120 pounds of tension. At 300 pounds, then the average for each strand is 12.5 pounds (300 divided by 24 strands)



caspian said:


> if tension was indeed cumulative with each strand, the first strand of string would go onto the jig at 5lb. to add 5lb load to the jig would require 10lb of tension in the second strand, which would result in the first strand going slack if the jig flexes at all.


Unless you're decreasing tension with each subsequent loop, or your jig doesn't even flex 1/1000th of an inch, the first strand(s) do have less tension than the strands. They don't ordinarily go "slack" because despite the claims of bowstring makers, all modern bowstring materials do still "stretch". If that were not true, then a finished string would be the same length at 300 pounds as at 100 pounds, which we all know is not the case. If a 24 strand string measure 1/16" longer at 300lbs than it does at 100 pounds, then that means each individual strand must also be stretching.


----------



## nestly

Here's a video where I used a bow scale as one of the jig "posts" to show how each subsequent loop increase the compression forces in a string jig.






You will notice that the increase is not linear though, which is why I said "theoretically 120 pounds" earlier. At the beginning, one strand is about 5 lbs, two 10 lbs, 4 20 lbs etc., but as the strand count increases, the total tension continues to increase, but the amount continues to diminish as the strand count increases. This is because the string jig is yielding, so the first strands that originally had 5 lbs of tension each no longer have a full 5 lbs because the posts are moving closer together as the total tension on the jig increases.

Only after I finished did it occur to me how to show how much the jig had flexed, so I pulled a tape measure between the posts and started cutting the strands until all the pressure was off the jig. The flex was almost 1/16", which I already knew from previous testing.






BowBender also conducted a test to show that when a jig flexes, the first strands will have less tension than the last.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaQTXWTxKrM


----------



## 2X_LUNG

Chris NJ said:


> Thanks!! Although, I would never have even attempted this without you, automan, 2xlung, and the other folks active on this forum. The info that has been shared on here is incredible. I've read and re-read the posts on here too many times to count. lol
> 
> I hope to get good enough to share with the next group looking to jump into this very addictive activity!


Chris, excellent job! Keep it up. 

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## 2X_LUNG

And fellas, if you haven't tried the China braid, you're missing out. I'm getting great results! And peep tubing to replace shrink tubing..








Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


----------



## nestly

2X_LUNG said:


> And fellas, if you haven't tried the China braid, you're missing out. ....


Where do we find it, what are the specs of the stuff you're using, and what is the finished diameter of the end servings?


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Here's a video where I used a bow scale as one of the jig "posts" to show how each subsequent loop increase the compression forces in a string jig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will notice that the increase is not linear though, which is why I said "theoretically 120 pounds" earlier. At the beginning, one strand is about 5 lbs, two 10 lbs, 4 20 lbs etc., but as the strand count increases, the total tension continues to increase, but the amount continues to diminish as the strand count increases. This is because the string jig is yielding, so the first strands that originally had 5 lbs of tension each no longer have a full 5 lbs because the posts are moving closer together as the total tension on the jig increases.
> 
> Only after I finished did it occur to me how to show how much the jig had flexed, so I pulled a tape measure between the posts and started cutting the strands until all the pressure was off the jig. The flex was almost 1/16", which I already knew from previous testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BowBender also conducted a test to show that when a jig flexes, the first strands will have less tension than the last.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaQTXWTxKrM


Great bit of info here. Thanks for the videos.


----------



## tote

nestly said:


> Where do we find it, what are the specs of the stuff you're using, and what is the finished diameter of the end servings?


Here's a sheet I made that gives me the diameter of the Chinese fishing line I've been using. Works great and comes out to around .02 cents a yard instead of .25 cents a yard.
I printed it out and laminated it. It's a quick handy reference on my work bench.


----------



## deerbum

2X_LUNG said:


> And fellas, if you haven't tried the China braid, you're missing out. I'm getting great results! And peep tubing to replace shrink tubing..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Your strings look perfect as always. Are you using 4 or 8 strand? Are you using it for cable end servings as well? I bought a 1/4 lb of .014" Powergrip to work with for a while to see how it holds up. Comes out to about $9 per 120 yards (about 7.75 standard spools) and should keep me in thread for a couple years.


----------



## 2X_LUNG

deerbum said:


> Your strings look perfect as always. Are you using 4 or 8 strand? Are you using it for cable end servings as well? I bought a 1/4 lb of .014" Powergrip to work with for a while to see how it holds up. Comes out to about $9 per 120 yards (about 7.75 standard spools) and should keep me in thread for a couple years.


Thanks! I like the 4 strand. The 8 is too slick and doesn't grip well. I use 30# for cable ends..and tight. 40# for strings. 

I'll have to get a measurement on each as far as finished diameter. 

The power grip I've been using a while now. It's excellent stuff; however, it's breaking strength is the downfall. I use .021 for center and it grips like no other!

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## deerbum

2X_LUNG said:


> Thanks! I like the 4 strand. The 8 is too slick and doesn't grip well. I use 30# for cable ends..and tight. 40# for strings.
> 
> I'll have to get a measurement on each as far as finished diameter.
> 
> The power grip I've been using a while now. It's excellent stuff; however, it's breaking strength is the downfall. I use .021 for center and it grips like no other!
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


I've had the .018" break when pulling through on a back serve. It was due to the serving "knotting up" as it increases in twist, no problems if I am careful to keep it straight when pulling the tag through. I tighten the Beiter as much as I can possibly can by hand for center serving and around a gallon milk jug and a half (12 lbs) for ends- no breaks when serving so far with either .018 or .014. Are you experiencing breaks due to knots or say greater than 12 lbs of spool tension? Just curious.


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## nestly

2X_LUNG said:


> ... I use 30# for cable ends..and tight. 40# for strings.


Does anyone else actually measure the payout tension on their serving jigs? I check mine every time I serve to make sure I'm serving at a specific tension. I mostly use BCY 2X for end servings at 11 lbs, .014 Halo breaks about half the time if I try to use that much, so drop it down to 8 lbs, which is the biggest reason why I don't use Halo any longer.


----------



## RatherBArchery

I am headed to LAS tonight and am looking for suggestions on which end serving to use when a harsh cam lobe causes my normal BCY 
3-D to separate over time. This happens on the bottom control cable serving where the cable roles over the harsh lobe on the module.


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## Huntinsker

RatherBArchery said:


> I am headed to LAS tonight and am looking for suggestions on which end serving to use when a harsh cam lobe causes my normal BCY
> 3-D to separate over time. This happens on the bottom control cable serving where the cable roles over the harsh lobe on the module.


Either Halo or Powergrip. I know several guys switching from Halo to Powergrip so you may just want to get some .014 Powergrip.


----------



## RatherBArchery

I use Trophy string material, is that an issue with the powergrip??


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## nuthinbutnock

2X_LUNG said:


> And fellas, if you haven't tried the China braid, you're missing out. I'm getting great results! And peep tubing to replace shrink tubing..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


What is this Chinese braid?


----------



## Huntinsker

RatherBArchery said:


> I use Trophy string material, is that an issue with the powergrip??


Nope


----------



## michaelgentry87

nuthinbutnock said:


> What is this Chinese braid?


Fishing line

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## BlindBuck

nestly said:


> Does anyone else actually measure the payout tension on their serving jigs? I check mine every time I serve to make sure I'm serving at a specific tension. I mostly use BCY 2X for end servings at 11 lbs, .014 Halo breaks about half the time if I try to use that much, so drop it down to 8 lbs, which is the biggest reason why I don't use Halo any longer.


Guilty, I also measure it when I'm done.(guess I do that to get pissed at my Beiter when it loses tension.lol)

Little curious how are you measuring your payout? I'm using hemostats that are fastened to a digital scale. Other end of the scale I put on my layout post and pull. I run 12lbs on .014 halo and I haven't broken any since I slowed my spinner speed down. Are you also using a spinner of some sort? I should also caveat this by saying I mainly (99% of the time) only build binary cam string sets.(so short runs)



2X_LUNG said:


> The power grip I've been using a while now. It's excellent stuff; however, it's breaking strength is the downfall. I use .021 for center and it grips like no other!
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Can you provide a little more info with this please?

Strand count(materials), nocks you are using,tension etc.....

Reason I am asking is because I'm using .018 as compared to .021. I couldn't get the .021 to provide good nock fit using 28 strands of Fury or 24 on BCY452X. Like to know what I'm missing since 62XS and Halo in .021 I can.





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## bigbuckisamust

The 18 will be good for you at 28 strands. It will provide a great nock fit


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## nestly

BlindBuck said:


> Little curious how are you measuring your payout?


Every time I cut a string or a serving, I tie an overhand loop anyway... so I just hook the loop on my digital bow scale (which hangs 3 feet from my string jig) and pull out enough to verify/adjust the tension.


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## BlindBuck

bigbuckisamust said:


> The 18 will be good for you at 28 strands. It will provide a great nock fit


Yes that is what I've been using.

I was just curious how 2X_Lung is able to utilize .021. Basically wanted to see what I was missing from when I tried it.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


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## 2X_LUNG

BlindBuck said:


> Yes that is what I've been using.
> 
> I was just curious how 2X_Lung is able to utilize .021. Basically wanted to see what I was missing from when I tried it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


I use 28 on fury and 8190f. The .021 makes a perfect fit on the bohning double lok nocks. I still need to mic it for you.....

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


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## 2X_LUNG

Oh, and bcy x I go 22 on String. 

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## 2X_LUNG

Another Chinese braided end loop on 8190f material. 










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## automan26

How does 8190F compare to Fury? I know you have used both, I have not.

Automan


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## nuthinbutnock

Where does everyone buy this Chinese braid? I'd like to try it out 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BlindBuck

2X_LUNG said:


> I use 28 on fury and 8190f. The .021 makes a perfect fit on the bohning double lok nocks. I still need to mic it for you.....
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk





2X_LUNG said:


> Oh, and bcy x I go 22 on String.
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


Thank you very much for the information, I use different nocks but have some DL nocks in my collection to test. The X and 22 strands makes sense, as from what I gather that is the same thread size as 452X. I'll try again on using .021 with Fury/28 when I build my next set which will be very soon.

Thanks again for sharing, it's always appreciated.


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## nestly

BlindBuck said:


> Reason I am asking is because I'm using .018 as compared to .021. I couldn't get the .021 to provide good nock fit using 28 strands of Fury or 24 on BCY452X. Like to know what I'm missing since 62XS and Halo in .021 I can.


If you're talking about BCY Powergrip, then yes, it is absolutely finishes bigger in diameter than BCY XS of the same size. All else being equal, .018 Powergrip is what will most closely match the finished diameter of .021 XS.

BCY Powergrip Bow String Serving Review - 60X Bowstrings


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## automan26

This is some good Chinese braid at a great price. Lots of colors and lots of tension options.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PE-Dyneema-...hash=item51b6987d59:m:mcWOmqgkEXdn4ycx-NUfcKQ

Automan


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## b0w_bender

Nestly, those are great videos! Thanks for doing that.


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## b0w_bender

Hey Automan26 and Huntinsker what do you think of this mod for the string jig posts? By building your posts this way you can have the string spin on the center of the shaft. The whole thing can be done with hand tools and a tap. This is 1.5" x .25" L angle steel. I drilled a hole for the 3/8" shaft and a hole that I threaded the 1/4-20 post into. I actually threaded both holes but if you wanted you could just use nuts to hold everything in place. I think a nut on the top side would definitely add strength and make the post base a lot closer to shaft center. Let me know what you guys think.


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## RobColella

Good looking no machining option.


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## RobColella

Here is another no machining option that can be adapted for string building with a bit longer post. I've rounded off the corners, but would consider assembling with JB weld next time to fill the teeth in the flat area with the post. There are no sharp edges in the flat or along any of the edges.

I designed this one strictly for stretching flemish twist recurve bowstrings. I'm now looking to do the same for compound bow string builds and endless loop string builds for my other bows.


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## automan26

b0w bender

I see some things in your design that I like. First, it looks very stout and should hold up fine against 300#. Having a head on the post is also a good idea. I would bet that the size of that post head is nearly identical with the size of most of the cam posts where the string anchors. You can make nice small loops and if they fit over the head of the post you can be sure they will fit on the cam post. Having the nut on the post, below the string is also a good idea because it will put your string closer to the center line when you twist.

I do see one thing that I wonder about. Moving the string closer to the center line of the jig will move the tension up on the post bolt and might put some leverage tension at the base of the post bolt. This may stress the post right where the threads end which is the weakest part of the bolt. But a good grade 8 bolt may have the strength to take the stress. If you lose the nut and drill and tap the 3/8" hole as low as possible you will get the string closer to center thus reducing the height of the string on the post bolt. This will cut down on the tension at the base of the bolt.

All in all, your design looks great and easy to build. (I like easy) Using a 3/8" bolt will make the build a bit easier because it eliminates having to grind out the holes in the corner bracket to accommodate the 5/8" carriage bolt. I am anxious to see your finished product.

Automan


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## nestly

b0w_bender said:


> Hey Automan26 and Huntinsker what do you think of this mod for the string jig posts? By building your posts this way you can have the string spin on the center of the shaft. The whole thing can be done with hand tools and a tap. This is 1.5" x .25" L angle steel. I drilled a hole for the 3/8" shaft and a hole that I threaded the 1/4-20 post into. I actually threaded both holes but if you wanted you could just use nuts to hold everything in place. I think a nut on the top side would definitely add strength and make the post base a lot closer to shaft center. Let me know what you guys think.


Pulling/spinning on center has always been a requirement for me. I've moved on to a more refined design, but my original was made from a 5/8" grade5 bolt and a 1/4-28 socket head cap screw.


----------



## b0w_bender

automan26 said:


> b0w bender
> I do see one thing that I wonder about. Moving the string closer to the center line of the jig will move the tension up on the post bolt and might put some leverage tension at the base of the post bolt. This may stress the post right where the threads end which is the weakest part of the bolt. But a good grade 8 bolt may have the strength to take the stress. If you lose the nut and drill and tap the 3/8" hole as low as possible you will get the string closer to center thus reducing the height of the string on the post bolt. This will cut down on the tension at the base of the bolt.
> Automan


This is exactly what I was thinking too, this was the first iteration of the design and once I had it built I could see that it would benefit from using the nuts both because you get less stress on the bolt and you wouldn't need to tap the L bracket for the post. Simply put a nut on the top and the bottom makes it better and easier to manufacture. to RobColella and Nestly my personal jig has a bolt cut out much like you guys have shown but the bolt tends to be much larger to make it as robust and with the L design you don't need to tap anything.


----------



## RobColella

b0w bender, I like the design and may have to give it a try with Automan's recommendation, too. What is the post you have used on this iteration?


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## b0w_bender

Well... My brother works at the Cornell Synchrotron these are stainless steel high strength torque bolts. They use them in components of the accelerator once they have been used in an experiment they toss them out to ensure that the new experiment parts conform completely to spec. So My brother tends to have buckets of the things laying around his shop. He of course shipped these too me a couple of years ago and they have been in one of my nick nack drawers waiting for a purpose. Sorry for the average consumer I don't have a clue where you could get one. I would think that a standard socket head screw would work just as well.


----------



## b0w_bender

automan26 said:


> b0w bender, I am anxious to see your finished product.
> Automan


I posted this up here because I believe these conform to the cheap and easy spirit of the El-Cheapo Jig, but the jig I am actually working on is a kit based power winder similar in function to the Specialty Archery unit but selling for under $1000.00.


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## b0w_bender

OK this is much better the Mach2


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## tote

My best transition from the serving to the end loop.
Just need to wipe the string clean.
I'm actually starting to feel a little confident.


----------



## Chris018

hey everyone i am just trying out the halo .014 white, which everyone said should go clear. i really like the look that everyone is getting. i am not getting the look. is there something that you are putting on them to get it clear if so please list what you are using. thanks in advance. 

P.S. i have the tension on my beiter as high as it can go and not getting clear.


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## Chris018

here is what i am talking about, any suggestions on what i can do ???


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## Chris018

I also have been wondering if there is a percent turns that you shouldn't go below. this is my first pinstripe







I think that it looks a little cramped. i used .66 to determine the number of twists. could you use say .50 without causing any issues?


----------



## automan26

I have never used Halo for clear serving, but if yours is staying that dark I would have to say that there is a tension issue somewhere. I am unable to give you much help with Halo because I have always used something else. Double check your Beiter.

You could easily back off your twist rate to .5 with no problems, but your twist rate does not look all that bad. When you look at a pinstripe string your eye wants to focus on the primary colors and because they do not have as many strands as they would in a two color string they appear to be twisted more that they actually are. I think you are ok, but if you want to back off to fewer twists you should have no problem. Twists simply hold things together tightly so conceivably a string with only 5-10 twists would work, but more twists make a more stable string.

Your string looks good to me, but others may see something I have missed.

Automan


----------



## automan26

On my way to the range today I started thinking about all those guys who want their strings to twists along the axis and not wrap around the circumference of the bolt like with what happens with the El-Cheap-O, so I got an idea about how to modify the El-Cheap-O and built a test prototype. I took a 5/8" X 2 1/8" coupling nut and cut it to 1 1/4". I drilled a hole so I can use a roll pin to anchor the nut to the bolt (Small carriage bolt in the pic) and then drilled a hole for the post. The bottom of the coupling nut is threaded for a 1/4x20 cap screw but the top hole has been drilled out to a full 1/4". The pics are of my basic concept and things are loosely assembled with whatever I had laying around. I plan to use proper hardware in the final product.

The idea of this modification is to provide a surface and post for layout, just as before, but once the loop has been served, the post can be unscrewed and then reinserted around the served loop for twisting. This should allow the string to twist on the axis of the bolt.

To me it looks fine, but if anyone sees anything that I have overlooked, let me know. If all looks fine I will build a test jig to see how it holds up. I don't foresee anything that would make a drastic difference over the previous design, but I could be wrong.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Chris018 said:


> here is what i am talking about, any suggestions on what i can do ???
> View attachment 4117801


It's very hard to get any serving to look clear over two dark colors of string material. You need major contrast or bright colors to make the serving look clear. 

Even when I used serving clarifier, the darker strings that I've done haven't come out quite as well as the ones with major contrast. If you're looking for a clarifier, look for Lil' John's Halo Clarifier.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Huntinsker said:


> It's very hard to get any serving to look clear over two dark colors of string material. You need major contrast or bright colors to make the serving look clear.
> 
> Even when I used serving clarifier, the darker strings that I've done haven't come out quite as well as the ones with major contrast. If you're looking for a clarifier, look for Lil' John's Halo Clarifier.


Where do u get this

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## Huntinsker

I got a bottle from Deezlin on here when I first started. I still have some left in the bottle. A little goes a pretty long way.


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## tote

automan26 said:


> I took a 5/8" X 2 1/8" coupling nut and cut it to 1 1/4".
> Automan


Why did you cut the coupling nut?


----------



## Pjones9700

I've been watching this thread for ages and have now bitten the bullet and built my own jig. I live I the uk and was trying to buy one at a sensible price, but alas, all the decent one have either gone out of production or are particularly hard to source.

I'm not quite up to compound strings yet, but am just starting out and will be practicing by making some basic Dacron recurve endless loop strings for my archery club's bows that are in need of replacement.

Picture of my jig below










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## caspian

Chris018 said:


> I think that it looks a little cramped. i used .66 to determine the number of twists. could you use say .50 without causing any issues?


I use .55 as my target value. I work exclusively with X so I just set the layup length to .995 of finished, crank in about half the finished inches of turns plus a few extra before the main stretching, and correct to finished length after relaxing for a day and retensioning at 100lb for 10 minutes. I'm a hobby builder only so this works for me, I don't need to worry about production speeds.


----------



## automan26

tote said:


> Why did you cut the coupling nut?


I really can't give any reason for cutting them other than that I felt they were too long. Full length coupling nuts would probably work just as well as shorter ones, but shortening them simply made me feel better.

Automan


----------



## automan26

Pjones9700 said:


> I've been watching this thread for ages and have now bitten the bullet and built my own jig. I live I the uk and was trying to buy one at a sensible price, but alas, all the decent one have either gone out of production or are particularly hard to source.
> 
> I'm not quite up to compound strings yet, but am just starting out and will be practicing by making some basic Dacron recurve endless loop strings for my archery club's bows that are in need of replacement.
> 
> Picture of my jig below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I like how creative you were in using the pieces of Unistrut. Keeping things simple and affordable is what this thread is all about. If you do not plan to bolt your jig to a bench a couple sections of Unistrut would make a great support base. I have only the single channel and sometimes it tips on me when I am working. If I had a flat bench I would make a base to keep things a bit more stable.

Nice Job
Automan


----------



## Chris018

my brother wants a double pin string. i have done a single but not a double. just want to confirm that i am laying out properly. so it would be 10 red 2 white 10 black 2 white. my main concern is how to peg it so that it twists up nice.


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris018 said:


> my brother wants a double pin string. i have done a single but not a double. just want to confirm that i am laying out properly. so it would be 10 red 2 white 10 black 2 white. my main concern is how to peg it so that it twists up nice.


I would do 10, 4, 10. That way you don't have 4 tag ends to deal with at both posts. Then when separating, just separate the 2 of the white with each primary color. Wrap a piece of scrap white around each side of the white pins and that will be your pins on each side. Also make sure to dewax and burnish without the white in the bundle when you do. If you don't get the wax off that black and red, especially the red, the white will get discolored immediately by the wax on the red/black fibers.

Then when separating the colors for twisting, do it like this.


----------



## Chris018

so if i have this right based on the colours you have in the photo there would be 1 strand orange with the grey, 1 strand orange with the black, and 1 strand of orange separated with the tees?


----------



## Huntinsker

Chris018 said:


> so if i have this right based on the colours you have in the photo there would be 1 strand orange with the grey, 1 strand orange with the black, and 1 strand of orange separated with the tees?


That's actually 2 strands of orange on each side. The horizontal tee separates it so there are 2 strands of orange on the same level as the gray and black. Then the vertical tees separate the orange out to the sides so that they don't get covered up by the two primary colors as you twist. As you twist the pin stripe will sit between the 2 primary colors. If you notice I still put a scrap piece around the pinstripes so I can chase them and pull them on top of the bundle if they get covered up. It comes out well without doing that but good isn't good enough in my book. I like the pin to be consistent all the way down.


----------



## automan26

I gave my El-Cheap-O center-line twister a test run and it looks like it is a keeper. For those who have the El-Cheap-O and wish it could twist the string along the axis of the bolt, this may be a simple upgrade. Lay it out around the post on top of the nut, remove the post and transfer the string to the center of the nut and reinsert the bolt through the loop. Twist it up and stretch it out, then serve it.

I am going to have to go out today and find some proper roll pins and shorter socket head bolts, but this should give you an idea of the finished product.

Automan


----------



## b0w_bender

Ya I don't like having to take the time to pull the string off the jig. That's why I built mine with the L angle steel. I know the L-Angle is not readily available at home depot (which is the point of the El-Cheapo) but it is inexpensive to order and easy to build. I guess I'll need to rifle through the offerings at Lowes and Home depot to see if I can find an elegant solution available there.

this is all I could find online. Not sure if the 1/8" is thick enough I suspect it is.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-1-2-in-x-48-in-Plain-Steel-Angle-with-1-8-in-Thick-800947/204225752


----------



## BlindBuck

b0w_bender said:


> *but the jig I am actually working on is a kit based power winder similar in function to the Specialty Archery unit but selling for under $1000.00.*


You've got my attention. Any other details on this unit?


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

BlindBuck said:


> You've got my attention. Any other details on this unit?


Yes, details please!

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk


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## b0w_bender

BlindBuck said:


> You've got my attention. Any other details on this unit?


As I get closer to the final product I'll have more details and I will likely publish the plans here on the DIY forum for those interested in doing it all on their own.


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## tpcollins

I assume automan26 serves the loops by hand whereas with the double end posts like pjones9700 is able to use the serving winder to put on the loop serving. Using the serving tool like in pjones9700 pics should make for a more uniform and tight fit but could separate easier once under stress around the cam's peg versus hand serving when the strands are wrapped around something already that simulates a cam peg?

Just having trouble visualizing which way is best. Thanks.


----------



## Huntinsker

tpcollins said:


> I assume automan26 serves the loops by hand whereas with the double end posts like pjones9700 is able to use the serving winder to put on the loop serving. Using the serving tool like in pjones9700 pics should make for a more uniform and tight fit but could separate easier once under stress around the cam's peg versus hand serving when the strands are wrapped around something already that simulates a cam peg?
> 
> Just having trouble visualizing which way is best. Thanks.


Pick your poison. Tag end loops or served loops both work well, assuming your tag ends don't slip under the served loops. The biggest determining factor of what you make is your equipment and your personal choice. If you have a 2 post setup, you'll just about have to do tag ends. If you have a 3-4 post setup, then you can do either one.


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## Pjones9700

tpcollins said:


> I assume automan26 serves the loops by hand whereas with the double end posts like pjones9700 is able to use the serving winder to put on the loop serving. Using the serving tool like in pjones9700 pics should make for a more uniform and tight fit but could separate easier once under stress around the cam's peg versus hand serving when the strands are wrapped around something already that simulates a cam peg?
> 
> Just having trouble visualizing which way is best. Thanks.


I have made my jig so I can also make endless loop recurve strings. I am equipment officer for my local club and we now need to replace the strings on our beginners bows, hence the need for a string jig. I have made the string jig and will be make the new strings we need ( around 40) for less than it would have cost us to buy new strings.

I myself am a compounder and would like to make strings/cables for my families bows eventually( 12yo daughter has a compound and the wife is starting to lean towards the dark side!!). Making the basic Dacron strings for club is helping me to get my technique right without having to worry about the cost of modern string material and serving thread. Currently using Brownell B-50 and soft twist #4 for the serving and end loops. Not strictly correct but sufficient for low poundage beginner bows I think.

Unable to get Fury at a reasonable cost in the UK at the minute but will be having a go with BCY X once I have made a lot more basic strings. Any recommendations on serving and end loop threads, I do like the look of Halo serving for the end loops but not sure what would be best for the centre servings.

I currently have a 2015 Carbon spyder turbo with strings from Wolfden in the USA which are good, but am looking to build my own in the future.

Whichever way you choose, best of look, cos I am addicted after making just 3 endless loop strings......


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## Refletch

Wow! I just finished going through this entire thread... 32 months/170 pages/ 4250 post! I just can't wait to have all the necessary parts together to build my own jig and start building my own threads! There is so much information here that I wish I would've taken more notes along the way! You guys are awesome for sharing all this knowledge on here and the threads you are showing off are also AWESOME! I can only hope to one day be able to do 1/2 as good as that. Thanks to Huntingster and automan26 for starting this amazing thread and for everyone else who share their experience with the rest of us! 2X Lung, your threads are amazing!! (and your video very informative) Thumbs up!


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## Chris018

i recently did the same thing Refletch and i now have my jug set and have made threads for both my bows and my 2 brothers bows. it is very fulfilling to know that people are enjoying the amazing sport of archery with something that you made


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## screamrider

Just finished another set - first crack with clear serving and I'm digging how they turned out.









So, now I need to build a cable with a yoke - hoping someone can share a good technique for serving the end loops of the yoke end (using a 4 post!)?? 

My only idea at this time is the following:

1. Lay up half the bundle
2. Serve one yoke loop 
3. Take the first half off (just off the 2 posts I just served between)
4. Lay up the second half
5. Serve that end loop
6. Put the first bundle back on
7. Serve the other end?

My concern is taking the first bundle off and on, and creating varying tensions in the individual strands.

I welcome any and all advice!


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## b0w_bender

screamrider said:


> Just finished another set - first crack with clear serving and I'm digging how they turned out.
> 
> So, now I need to build a cable with a yoke - hoping someone can share a good technique for serving the end loops of the yoke end (using a 4 post!)??
> 
> My only idea at this time is the following:
> 
> 1. Lay up half the bundle
> 2. Serve one yoke loop
> 3. Take the first half off (just off the 2 posts I just served between)
> 4. Lay up the second half
> 5. Serve that end loop
> 6. Put the first bundle back on
> 7. Serve the other end?
> 
> My concern is taking the first bundle off and on, and creating varying tensions in the individual strands.
> 
> I welcome any and all advice!


If it is a solid color you can layout the cable twice the desired length server both ends then fold it in half and finish the rest of the serving.


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## screamrider

b0w_bender said:


> If it is a solid color you can layout the cable twice the desired length server both ends then fold it in half and finish the rest of the serving.


Thanks, I've heard that technique before, but I'm looking to build 2 color with pin stripe.


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## michaelgentry87

My self like laying yokes on 3 post but ya gotta take em off and spin em, 
I also like the look of putting the pin on one side of the yoke 

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## wvbowhunt

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Ob1.25

screamrider said:


> Just finished another set - first crack with clear serving and I'm digging how they turned out.
> 
> View attachment 4158497
> 
> 
> So, now I need to build a cable with a yoke - hoping someone can share a good technique for serving the end loops of the yoke end (using a 4 post!)??
> 
> My only idea at this time is the following:
> 
> 1. Lay up half the bundle
> 2. Serve one yoke loop
> 3. Take the first half off (just off the 2 posts I just served between)
> 4. Lay up the second half
> 5. Serve that end loop
> 6. Put the first bundle back on
> 7. Serve the other end?
> 
> My concern is taking the first bundle off and on, and creating varying tensions in the individual strands.
> 
> I welcome any and all advice!


I am working on my first set ever. I just built a yoke cable with yokes serve with dura grip.

Using a four post this is how I did mine.
1. Laid out half then masking taped/section those where you'd serve just the yoke end. Don't section off cam end.
2. Laid the other half out, tape /section these off if you'd like. I did.
3. Added a tad bit of tension to the 4post setup and severed the end that goes to the cam first. 
4. Removed one of the half sections that was taped together and serve it. Remove it
5. Place the section you took off on and serve it.

Like said I just did my first set ever. This way made the most sense to me.


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## Purka

Tag end serving with a pin I use three posts that way I can have a pin up each leg.
Using serving material with a tool I use four posts and do one colour at a time with the pin on one colour.


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## skynight

*Ok tag end weavers*

Today I experimented with tag end weaving rather than back serving.
About 40 pages ago I posted my tests leaving all the tags on one end using a 3 post jig and serving loops under tension. I have since modified what I posted then. I've been back serving but only on half the bundle. This has reduced the size of the back serving to as little as possible. 
I decided to try weaving the tag ends, which would make the knots one strand skinnier. Not huge, but something. 
I used some 8190 I don't build with for the experiment. I weaved each end 5 times. Then I raised the tension to 300#. The first tag was fine, probably because it's trapped by the second tag. The second tag slipped. I marked the tag where it exited the bundle, you can see it slid back into the bundle.

For now I'm considering this a failure, but open to suggestions - more weaves, different technique?


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## michaelgentry87

So i was going to give this a shot, the china braid that is 
20 lb for end loops?
40/50 lb for end serving?

I just wanted to make sure im starting out right


Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> Today I experimented with tag end weaving rather than back serving.
> About 40 pages ago I posted my tests leaving all the tags on one end using a 3 post jig and serving loops under tension. I have since modified what I posted then. I've been back serving but only on half the bundle. This has reduced the size of the back serving to as little as possible.
> I decided to try weaving the tag ends, which would make the knots one strand skinnier. Not huge, but something.
> I used some 8190 I don't build with for the experiment. I weaved each end 5 times. Then I raised the tension to 300#. The first tag was fine, probably because it's trapped by the second tag. The second tag slipped. I marked the tag where it exited the bundle, you can see it slid back into the bundle.
> 
> For now I'm considering this a failure, but open to suggestions - more weaves, different technique?


That's why I just back serve them. With practice you can get it to actually taper a little and it's so small that you can't notice the transition anyway.


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## skynight

Huntinsker said:


> That's why I just back serve them. With practice you can get it to actually taper a little and it's so small that you can't notice the transition anyway.


Yeah, just thought I'd try it. I can see this working if I twisted before putting tension on but that just doesn't work for my process.


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## deerbum

When I started building I wove the tags and recently switched to back serving. They are a little bulkier for me but I seem to get a smoother transition than when I wove.


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## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> When I started building I wove the tags and recently switched to back serving. They are a little bulkier for me but I seem to get a smoother transition than when I wove.


I do to. You can actually use the back wrap to taper down even more and if done correctly, it can make a smoother transition. I think where people have trouble with it is when they pull the tag end tight. They pull it so tight that it makes the last few wraps bunch up against the rest and that causes a bulk at the end where it should be smooth.


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> I do to. You can actually use the back wrap to taper down even more and if done correctly, it can make a smoother transition. I think where people have trouble with it is when they pull the tag end tight. They pull it so tight that it makes the last few wraps bunch up against the rest and that causes a bulk at the end where it should be smooth.


I agree. If you tie off the tags properly you can get a very smooth transition. This is a pic I posted earlier, but notice how smooth the transition is. The serving barely widened as it moved over the wrapped tags. I am still a big fan of the tag end method. I think it is easier and does a great job. On many bows the cam post hides the loop to the point where the end loop is very difficult to see. Served end loops do look very nice, but often the only time they are seen is when the string is off the bow. Once installed, the loop is often very hard to see.

Automan


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## Ledbetter Buck

Some I finished in the last few days. All are furry.


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## tote

Ledbetter Buck said:


> Some I finished in the last few days. All are furry.


^^^Cool pin stripe on the yokes.
Now there's a video I'd like to see!


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## Huntinsker

tote said:


> ^^^Cool pin stripe on the yokes.
> Now there's a video I'd like to see!


You would just lay out half the red, half the black and half the white to make up each half of the bundle. You'd have a ton of tag ends to deal with but if you deal with them properly, they shouldn't be too much of a problem. You'd have to chase the material to bring two halves of the red and black together and to get the pins to lay in the middle just right. 

Pretty cool affect but a lot of work. Kudos to Ledbetter Buck for making it look great.


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## Ledbetter Buck

Thanks guys, it is very time consuming but I think worth the effort. Not sure I'd want to make a set of um every day though! lol


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## michaelgentry87

On pinstripe yokes as above i like to double the length and add a quarter inch then fold in half, have to be careful when separating though 

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## Ash1123

Nice setup ! This definitely helps with my new hobby


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## freefall619

b0w_bender said:


> If it is a solid color you can layout the cable twice the desired length server both ends then fold it in half and finish the rest of the serving.


For this is there any need for consideration in how the layout goes, do you have to add any extra length for wrapping back around the pin?


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## caspian

Ledbetter Buck said:


> Some I finished in the last few days. All are furry.


that's fantastic work.


----------



## Purka

Huntinsker said:


> You would just lay out half the red, half the black and half the white to make up each half of the bundle. You'd have a ton of tag ends to deal with but if you deal with them properly, they shouldn't be too much of a problem. You'd have to chase the material to bring two halves of the red and black together and to get the pins to lay in the middle just right.
> 
> Pretty cool affect but a lot of work. Kudos to Ledbetter Buck for making it look great.


I use a three post lay up for a pin , this way you don't have to half anything. The pin goes up both legs of the yoke.


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## caspian

same for myself. managing two primary colours plus a pinstripe for each leg is more work than I want to consider at the moment.


----------



## TRAINHD

This is Amazing!!! Thank you for taking the time to go so detailed with the instructions  I know I am putting this high on the list of to do's


----------



## Bownut400

Hi Guys I just thought I would share a video that Mr Ledbetter buck and I have put together. "We" mostly "Lance" are putting out a series of videos starting from the beginning. Lance is excellent at teaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQgH5GiksU


----------



## rok1167

I posted this on another thread, probably be better here. just started doing strings, thanks to this thread.

did one string with served loops and now one with tag ends. serving looks much better, but tag ends are easier and from what I understand stronger. ive heard people using braid fishing line for the ends. Is it clear braid on the ends? I just got white/clear 3D. Is braid better than 3D? If so, why?

this thread is the bomb by the way.


----------



## Huntinsker

rok1167 said:


> I posted this on another thread, probably be better here. just started doing strings, thanks to this thread.
> 
> did one string with served loops and now one with tag ends. serving looks much better, but tag ends are easier and from what I understand stronger. ive heard people using braid fishing line for the ends. Is it clear braid on the ends? I just got white/clear 3D. Is braid better than 3D? If so, why?
> 
> this thread is the bomb by the way.


If you secure the tag ends properly, both served and tag end loops should perform equally well. As far as a braid or 3D being better, it depends on the application. Braided serving is generally tougher and better resistant to separation around sharp bends and where cables go over modules. However, if you want clear serving, braided serving doesn't go as clear as easily as a twisted material like 3D. 3D is great for string ends where they don't get as much abuse as cable ends.

For the fishing line, I'm not much help because I've only ever used one kind for one application and that's for serving inside the cable slide. It works great for that but that's not the same as an end or loop serving. 

Many guys doing served loops have really gotten on the Brownell Duragrip train. It's pricey but it makes awesome loop serving. Once I get my 4 post built, that's what I'm going to try for loop serving.


----------



## Telluarcher

Bownut400 said:


> Hi Guys I just thought I would share a video that Mr Ledbetter buck and I have put together. "We" mostly "Lance" are putting out a series of videos starting from the beginning. Lance is excellent at teaching.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQgH5GiksU


Thank you! A great addition to Yt and this thread. Probably the clearest vids I have seen.


----------



## rok1167

Huntinsker said:


> If you secure the tag ends properly, both served and tag end loops should perform equally well. As far as a braid or 3D being better, it depends on the application. Braided serving is generally tougher and better resistant to separation around sharp bends and where cables go over modules. However, if you want clear serving, braided serving doesn't go as clear as easily as a twisted material like 3D. 3D is great for string ends where they don't get as much abuse as cable ends.
> 
> For the fishing line, I'm not much help because I've only ever used one kind for one application and that's for serving inside the cable slide. It works great for that but that's not the same as an end or loop serving.
> 
> Many guys doing served loops have really gotten on the Brownell Duragrip train. It's pricey but it makes awesome loop serving. Once I get my 4 post built, that's what I'm going to try for loop serving.


thanks for info. stuff is starting to make sense. there's just a lot diff material for different parts of the string. another thread, there were a bunch of guys using braided fishing line (15-20lb clear I think) and really liking it for the actual loops.

just for confirmation that I'm not using the wrong serving, I'm using 3D for everything except the center serving (62xs). is that the proper material, in general? I might get into some other servings but the stuff gets expensive when you're talking multiple colors of multiple materials.


----------



## traper

I can't believe the strings that are being made today. I look at the pictures through these posts of the strings you guys are making and its almost embarrassing me to the strings I used to make 20 plus years ago and was proud of .. 

I can't help it I've got to play the game again.. LOL

There are so many materials on the market now between serving and string that it's hard to decide on what to go with.
I'm really liking what I see with the Fury and it seems to be Rock Solid..

My question is (and I know I picked the right place to ask it with the knowledge I see in these posts) what are your favorite serving materials and sizes for each area on the string and cables. And of the whites and light colors which brands in diameters seem to clear out the most when putting clarifier on.

PS.. this will be the first of many questions coming up so thanks in advance to everyone..

I'm reading the post above "Huntsinger" do any of the other lighter colors Fade Out enough to be able to see the string clearly underneath??


----------



## BowStringDepot

Here is a new one to try! Tiger pins


----------



## minndroptine

*Your opinion*









So I ordered this string and cable don't want to say from whom. Didn't put any twists in yet just out of the bag and onto the bow. I noticed the cable had a lot more twists that the string. 

I followed your The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide to build my string jig, on which I build my strings. I do not sell my strings, they are just for my use. 
When customers want strings I order from one of four manufactures depending on what they want.

String Building Formula

Here is a good formula for determining the proper number of twists and the finished string length:
Finished Length X .75 = Number of Twists
Number of twists X .012 + finished length= Initial Jig Post Setting.
Example: 100” String
100 X .75=75 (Twists)
75 X .012=0.9”
100” + 0.9”=100.9” (Initial Post Setting)
Add 75 twists to your 100.9” string and you should be very close to your finished length.

Being that that the cable to me looked over twisted. I removed the servings and un twisted it. According to the formula above, it was too long of a initial layup. So I un did the the cable and fixed it.

So I need an opinion, on whether I should let the string manufacturer know.


----------



## BowStringDepot

Ouch pretty rough looking string. I would let them know otherwise how will they know that they need to change to do it right. 


Hutch


----------



## Huntinsker

rok1167 said:


> thanks for info. stuff is starting to make sense. there's just a lot diff material for different parts of the string. another thread, there were a bunch of guys using braided fishing line (15-20lb clear I think) and really liking it for the actual loops.
> 
> just for confirmation that I'm not using the wrong serving, I'm using 3D for everything except the center serving (62xs). is that the proper material, in general? I might get into some other servings but the stuff gets expensive when you're talking multiple colors of multiple materials.


3d does work for pretty much everything but it's not the best on cable ends, especially on single cam and hybrid cam bows. It's a little "soft" for the amount of pressure that gets put on it where it goes over the modules. For those areas, Halo or Powergrip in .014" would be best.


----------



## Huntinsker

traper said:


> I can't believe the strings that are being made today. I look at the pictures through these posts of the strings you guys are making and its almost embarrassing me to the strings I used to make 20 plus years ago and was proud of ..
> 
> I can't help it I've got to play the game again.. LOL
> 
> There are so many materials on the market now between serving and string that it's hard to decide on what to go with.
> I'm really liking what I see with the Fury and it seems to be Rock Solid..
> 
> My question is (and I know I picked the right place to ask it with the knowledge I see in these posts) what are your favorite serving materials and sizes for each area on the string and cables. And of the whites and light colors which brands in diameters seem to clear out the most when putting clarifier on.
> 
> PS.. this will be the first of many questions coming up so thanks in advance to everyone..
> 
> I'm reading the post above "Huntsinger" do any of the other lighter colors Fade Out enough to be able to see the string clearly underneath??


My favorite servings are.... .014" Halo for cable ends (string ends too if you don't want to switch), 3d for string ends, Powergrip for center serving and I'll use a .002" braided fishing line for serving for cable slides that are tough on cables (the Bear hinge guard or Prime I-Glide come to mind). 

As far as colors that turn clear, white is really the only one that will turn clear but any of the brightly colored serving will show a darker color through it when it's pulled tight. Say you had flo yellow serving over a blue string, your serving would end up looking greenish from the blue showing through.


----------



## Huntinsker

minndroptine said:


> View attachment 4232370
> 
> 
> So I ordered this string and cable don't want to say from whom. Didn't put any twists in yet just out of the bag and onto the bow. I noticed the cable had a lot more twists that the string.
> 
> I followed your The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide to build my string jig, on which I build my strings. I do not sell my strings, they are just for my use.
> When customers want strings I order from one of four manufactures depending on what they want.
> 
> String Building Formula
> 
> Here is a good formula for determining the proper number of twists and the finished string length:
> Finished Length X .75 = Number of Twists
> Number of twists X .012 + finished length= Initial Jig Post Setting.
> Example: 100” String
> 100 X .75=75 (Twists)
> 75 X .012=0.9”
> 100” + 0.9”=100.9” (Initial Post Setting)
> Add 75 twists to your 100.9” string and you should be very close to your finished length.
> 
> Being that that the cable to me looked over twisted. I removed the servings and un twisted it. According to the formula above, it was too long of a initial layup. So I un did the the cable and fixed it.
> 
> So I need an opinion, on whether I should let the string manufacturer know.


Unfortunately that's not an uncommon thing to see from a lot of string manufacturers. Many don't care if things like the twist rate are even from piece to piece as long as it's the correct, or sometimes not so correct, final length. I don't mind naming names so I'll go ahead and say that I've installed several 60x sets that look like that. They perform pretty well but they don't look good, certainly not good enough for my bows :wink:

It wouldn't hurt to mention something to the builder and maybe they will listen and pay closer attention next time.


----------



## poetic

Bownut400 said:


> Hi Guys I just thought I would share a video that Mr Ledbetter buck and I have put together. "We" mostly "Lance" are putting out a series of videos starting from the beginning. Lance is excellent at teaching.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsQgH5GiksU


hi. i just watched all your videos... but i was wondering if you guys plan on making a video on how to make a yoke cable. " o-------<8 " from start to finish? you guys make it look so easy. really want to get a jig.. awesome work on the vids.


----------



## Bownut400

poetic said:


> hi. i just watched all your videos... but i was wondering if you guys plan on making a video on how to make a yoke cable. " o-------<8 " from start to finish? you guys make it look so easy. really want to get a jig.. awesome work on the vids.


Yes we plan on a few more. We welcome recommendations on what you want to see. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## graydragon2

Does anyone have the serving specs for a 2009 hoyt ultra elite with 4.5 spiral cams 

2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## 1woodworker

WOW, awesome job on this. I can see all the time, money and effort you put into this. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## traper

Huntinsker said:


> My favorite servings are.... .014" Halo for cable ends (string ends too if you don't want to switch), 3d for string ends, Powergrip for center serving and I'll use a .002" braided fishing line for serving for cable slides that are tough on cables (the Bear hinge guard or Prime I-Glide come to mind).
> 
> As far as colors that turn clear, white is really the only one that will turn clear but any of the brightly colored serving will show a darker color through it when it's pulled tight. Say you had flo yellow serving over a blue string, your serving would end up looking greenish from the blue showing through.


Vary cool.. Thank you.

Do you generally serve all of your loop ends?
are there ones that you prefer to tie up with the tag ends


----------



## rok1167

Huntinsker said:


> My favorite servings are.... .014" Halo for cable ends (string ends too if you don't want to switch), 3d for string ends, Powergrip for center serving and I'll use a .002" braided fishing line for serving for cable slides that are tough on cables (the Bear hinge guard or Prime I-Glide come to mind).
> 
> As far as colors that turn clear, white is really the only one that will turn clear but any of the brightly colored serving will show a darker color through it when it's pulled tight. Say you had flo yellow serving over a blue string, your serving would end up looking greenish from the blue showing through.


i'll keep an eye on the 3D then and probably use halo on the cables in the future. fortunately, since I'm becoming obsessed, I don't think i'll be keeping a string on long enough for the serving to wear out. thanks again.


----------



## BlindBuck

Huntinsker said:


> My favorite servings are.... .014" Halo for cable ends (string ends too if you don't want to switch), 3d for string ends, Powergrip for center serving and I'll use a .002" braided fishing line for serving for cable slides that are tough on cables (the Bear hinge guard or Prime I-Glide come to mind).
> 
> As far as colors that turn clear, white is really the only one that will turn clear but any of the brightly colored serving will show a darker color through it when it's pulled tight. Say you had flo yellow serving over a blue string, your serving would end up looking greenish from the blue showing through.


Have a quick question. I only use .014 Halo for all end servings. I see many people that use 3D for string end servings. Why is this, I always figured large production builders do that to cut costs, or is there a benefit of doing it?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## graydragon2

graydragon2 said:


> Does anyone have the serving specs for a 2009 hoyt ultra elite with 4.5 spiral cams
> 
> 2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> 2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> Copper John ANTS sight x 2
> Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
> Golden Key rest x 2
> Scott Backspin
> Easton X7 Eclipse
> Easton Carbon One


Anyone?

2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## Huntinsker

traper said:


> Vary cool.. Thank you.
> 
> Do you generally serve all of your loop ends?
> are there ones that you prefer to tie up with the tag ends


Actually I never have served my loops because I haven't had time to build my 4 post jig. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll have enough down time to get one built.


----------



## Huntinsker

BlindBuck said:


> Have a quick question. I only use .014 Halo for all end servings. I see many people that use 3D for string end servings. Why is this, I always figured large production builders do that to cut costs, or is there a benefit of doing it?
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


It's just like you thought, it's a cheaper material that does the job just as well. On my strings, they are all Halo but for my friends and some family that I know don't shoot aggressive cams with tight bends in the string track, they get 3D.


----------



## Huntinsker

graydragon2 said:


> Does anyone have the serving specs for a 2009 hoyt ultra elite with 4.5 spiral cams
> 
> 2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> 2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> Copper John ANTS sight x 2
> Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
> Golden Key rest x 2
> Scott Backspin
> Easton X7 Eclipse
> Easton Carbon One


Don't have it or any for a 4.5 spiral. If you search this thread for a 4.5 spiral, you should be able to find something to get the end serving lengths for the 4.5 spiral http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247

Then use the Hoyt tune charts to get the lengths you need. You'll need to know if it's an xt2000 or xt3000 limb. http://hoyt.com/support/tunecharts


----------



## rok1167

Huntinsker said:


> Actually I never have served my loops because I haven't had time to build my 4 post jig. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll have enough down time to get one built.


I served the loops on a two post, by hand cinching it tight behind the post just like tag ends.


----------



## BowStringDepot

graydragon2 said:


> Anyone?
> 
> 2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> 2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> Copper John ANTS sight x 2
> Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
> Golden Key rest x 2
> Scott Backspin
> Easton X7 Eclipse
> Easton Carbon One


Try Arrows and Strings section at the top try string specs


----------



## Refletch

poetic said:


> hi. I just watched all your videos... But i was wondering if you guys plan on making a video on how to make a yoke cable. " o-------<8 " from start to finish? You guys make it look so easy. Really want to get a jig.. Awesome work on the vids.


x2!!


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

We will be doing the yoke video soon, as well as others, let us know what u would like to see!


----------



## Refletch

Refletch said:


> poetic said:
> 
> 
> 
> hi. I just watched all your videos... But i was wondering if you guys plan on making a video on how to make a yoke cable. " o-------
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for taking the time to make and share those videos, very informative! I too can't wait to see how you build a yoke cable. :+1::+1:
Click to expand...


----------



## caspian

minndroptine said:


> String Building Formula
> 
> Here is a good formula for determining the proper number of twists and the finished string length:
> Finished Length X .75 = Number of Twists
> Number of twists X .012 + finished length= Initial Jig Post Setting.
> Example: 100” String
> 100 X .75=75 (Twists)
> 75 X .012=0.9”
> 100” + 0.9”=100.9” (Initial Post Setting)
> Add 75 twists to your 100.9” string and you should be very close to your finished length.
> 
> Being that that the cable to me looked over twisted. I removed the servings and un twisted it. According to the formula above, it was too long of a initial layup. So I un did the the cable and fixed it.


I honestly don't know how people use this formula. it seems very long indeed to me, when I tried it I ended up with way more twists than I like.

I'm only working with BCY X, but I just set my posts to finished length x .995 (yes, _shorter_ than finished) and I end with perfect length at .6 twists/inch.


----------



## Purka

I use a very simple formula.
I multiply the length by .6% +
For the twist I divide the length by 1.5.


----------



## BowStringDepot

Purka said:


> I use a very simple formula.
> I multiply the length by .6% +
> For the twist I divide the length by 1.5.


yep very simple


----------



## skynight

Purka said:


> I use a very simple formula.
> I multiply the length by .6% +
> For the twist I divide the length by 1.5.


This is almost what I do, but I must wrap tighter than most. For the IPS I use length X 1.011, twists length ÷ 1.5. I'm using bcy X material.


----------



## Kaveman44

can someone tell me how to layout a solid color with a bigger pin stripe with pin stripes on both sides of the big pin stripe? , basically I'm gonna do flo green with a gray pin with black pins on both sides of the grey pin, thanks ahead of time, i was thinking lay the out the flow green , then one black pin then the bigger grey pin followed by the other black pin?


----------



## graydragon2

Kaveman44 said:


> can someone tell me how to layout a solid color with a bigger pin stripe with pin stripes on both sides of the big pin stripe? , basically I'm gonna do flo green with a gray pin with black pins on both sides of the grey pin, thanks ahead of time, i was thinking lay the out the flow green , then one black pin then the bigger grey pin followed by the other black pin?


How many strands total

2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## Kaveman44

Fury so 28


----------



## graydragon2

I would wait for an answer from someone with more experience but i would say depending on width of pin you want. 12-6-4-6

2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## Apex72015

nice, tagged


----------



## Kaveman44

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=2147888

Like this


----------



## graydragon2

Where can i get a blank string spec sheet. I e just been using a notebook 

2007 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=2147888
> 
> Like this


That's just a basic 2 primary color string with a pinstripe. If you want the silver to be an obviously smaller proportion of the string, just make it less strands. So if you wanted 28 total strands, do 16 green, 8 silver and 4 black (2 for each pin).


----------



## Kaveman44

so just lay it out like that, 16 flo green- 8 silver- 4black or do i put the black pins in-between the green and silver , or do i put 2 black pins before the silver and 2 after


----------



## michaelgentry87

I would do the black in between the silver and split on the sides

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> so just lay it out like that, 16 flo green- 8 silver- 4black or do i put the black pins in-between the green and silver , or do i put 2 black pins before the silver and 2 after


Yes put the black in between the silver and green. It's laid out just like a normal pin but with uneven primary color strand counts. You can make them as uneven as you want. You may want to change the number of green and silver to change the size of those colors to get the effect you want.


----------



## Jan Enthoven

This is my take on the string Jig that is in this topic. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## Kaveman44

Thanks guys


----------



## bhizzy1

Awesome!


----------



## Huntinsker

Jan Enthoven said:


> This is my take on the string Jig that is in this topic.
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


Looks great!


----------



## Jan Enthoven

Thanks. I will show what I am going to make with it. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## Kaveman44

Think it send out great , thank you guys , I just might do 18 strands for flo green, 8 gray and two strands black just so the pin stripes are not so big


----------



## Fiferguy

Finally mocked up a pinstripe string. I'm fairly happy with how it's turned out so far, but I'm a little disappointed that BCY-X Flo. Purple is more pink than purple, but oh well. 10-Flo. Green, 10-Flo. Purple, 4-Purple strands.


----------



## automan26

Your string looks great!!!!! :wink: You have a right to be proud.

(Ha Ha, you've gone and gotten yourself addicted to string building just like the rest of us.)

Automan


----------



## Kaveman44

I like this one with the thinner pin stripe better, not much of a difference but happy over all


----------



## automan26

I agree---More green and less gray seems to be just right. That bow will be an eye-catcher for sure.

Automan


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Very nice Kaveman, like the smaller pins. Good job


----------



## Kaveman44

thanks guys , wish i had more to build , addicted for sure


----------



## poetic

Kaveman44 said:


> thanks guys , wish i had more to build , addicted for sure


I got a couple bows you could build some for, [emoji6][emoji6][emoji6] .... Haha. But i am saving up to try and give this a shot. I cant wait. But wont be for a little while longer. I think the hardest part will be finding someone to machine and tap the screws, around in my area. That wont cost a arm and a leg. Thank you the thread.


----------



## deerbum

This is silver and neon red 8190f. I'm using Chinese 4 strand 40 lb on the string ends, clears up nice with a little baby oil.


----------



## poetic

Is there an updated supply list? Or is everything i need in the first post? And did anyone figure out a post for pin stripes? Search function not working.


----------



## deerbum

Here's the updated McMaster Carr list:
(1) 5909K32	Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing, for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD
(2) 5909K45	0.032" Thickness Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing
(1) 9573K81	Medium Load Chrome-Silicon Steel Die Spring, 1.5" Hole, .75" Rod, 2" L, .135" X .345" Wire

You'll also need bar stock that is about 1.5" wide, I used 2" as that is what was available from the local farm implement manufacturer. I made a pinstripe tag holder and I'll post photos later. Also I prefer to use bar clamps for serving as they are much easier to adjust.


----------



## deerbum

Pinstripe tag holder


----------



## deerbum

Bar clamps and tag holders


----------



## poetic

deerbum said:


> Here's the updated McMaster Carr list:
> (1) 5909K32	Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing, for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD
> (2) 5909K45	0.032" Thickness Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing
> (1) 9573K81	Medium Load Chrome-Silicon Steel Die Spring, 1.5" Hole, .75" Rod, 2" L, .135" X .345" Wire
> 
> You'll also need bar stock that is about 1.5" wide, I used 2" as that is what was available from the local farm implement manufacturer. I made a pinstripe tag holder and I'll post photos later. Also I prefer to use bar clamps for serving as they are much easier to adjust.


i placed my order to McMaster Carr for the 4 pieces that you posted. but still trying to figure out what the bar stock is for. all it is, is a solid pipe right?


----------



## deerbum

It's the steel for the end posts, 2 solid steel pieces about 7" long, 1/2" thick, and about 1.5" wide.


----------



## poetic

deerbum said:


> It's the steel for the end posts, 2 solid steel pieces about 7" long, 1/2" thick, and about 1.5" wide.


7" ? it only looks about 4" in the pics, if that... (that's what she said joke?) if its not a problem. i was hoping maybe you can take a couple pics of both jigs. just so i can see some real clear pictures, where the extra McMaster things go. ect.... or if anybody else can.

also i cant see where the " 4 Superstrut/Unistrut spring nuts " would go.

are these the only 4 places that need to be taped? the 2 post need to be taped through the nut and bolt, correct?


----------



## deerbum

It's the largest pieces of steel in the photo. On the original list he listed it as 7"×1/2"×3/4", should be 7"×1/2"×1.5". The unistrut nuts are in the unistrut channel, it'll make sense when you go to Home Depot to buy all the hardware.


----------



## poetic

deerbum said:


> It's the largest pieces of steel in the photo. On the original list he listed it as 7"×1/2"×3/4", should be 7"×1/2"×1.5". The unistrut nuts are in the unistrut channel, it'll make sense when you go to Home Depot to buy all the hardware.


the spring nuts go inside of uni-strut. lets it move and lock down the jigs. Unistrut corner brackets are actually the L brackets (thats what i know them as).

this is what i found for the threaded rod. is this correct? http://www.menards.com/main/tools-h...432422765-c-8724.htm?tid=-2345506298413857918

i think got it. these are what your talking about. i think i got everything figured out.


----------



## deerbum

Ci ci, good luck!


----------



## Irish Sitka

Hi Guys!
I have my first bow string attempt in the jig under 300+Lbs of pressure and am looking for the serving specs for an Elite GT500 please.
I am delighted with progress, end loops look good and I don't think I have tripped myself up so far.
Thanks in advance if someone has the GT500 measurements.


----------



## poetic

Irish Sitka said:


> Hi Guys!
> I have my first bow string attempt in the jig under 300+Lbs of pressure and am looking for the serving specs for an Elite GT500 please.
> I am delighted with progress, end loops look good and I don't think I have tripped myself up so far.
> Thanks in advance if someone has the GT500 measurements.


Post 2382 in the attention string maker section.


GT500
String 58 7/16
0--16 1/2------22 3/4--24 1/4------27 3/4----32 1/2---------16 1/2--0
Cables 38 1/2
0----9---------------5--0

I just copied and pasted.


----------



## Irish Sitka

Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## poetic

2X_LUNG said:


> More china braid......and Here's Brownell Fury in new tri color with pinstripes too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk


it looks as if the string it's self is served. around the pin stripe area. clear maybe? an the black serving, is china braid also? i watched your video prolly around 10 times. and do not see how you did the clear serving as you do here. you just served with the tag ends. now i have a few question in general. hope you can anwser or anyone can answer. i see where you guys say "loops" and "ends" for serving. which is which? i thought they both were the same. i may go for the china braid serving just for the price. what sizes are you guys using? for loops, ends, center serving, string stop, and does it matter if it is for string, cables, buss'....? and if not using china for everything, recommendations? i am a noob. but willing to learn. thank you to everyone..


----------



## rian.kline.77

im gonna try this


----------



## michaelgentry87

I finally got it down









Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


----------



## freefall619

How are you guys judging the serving tension? I hear 8 lbs but what is the method for judging that and is that the best tension? Thanks all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

freefall619 said:


> How are you guys judging the serving tension? I hear 8 lbs but what is the method for judging that and is that the best tension? Thanks all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When I started building, I would tie a loop in the serving and hook it to a digital scale and pull out a length and see what the scale read. That got very tedious and eventually, I could just tell how much I needed by feel.


----------



## Kaveman44

is the 8 pounds a good weight to serve at , and what poundage should you serve your end loops


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> is the 8 pounds a good weight to serve at , and what poundage should you serve your end loops


Like most things in string making, it depends. If you stretch to enough poundage and have string clamps to keep the string from rotating while you serve, then yeah it may be a good tension or you may even be able to go more. If you don't and your string rotates a lot at that tension, then it's too much. It all depends on your build process.


----------



## skynight

I use the recommendation from the little Jon jig string building video. I do clamp the string and tension to 300#. I tighten the tension to where the jig just starts to bounce back when wrapped and then let go. This is typically quite a bit of tension but I've never measured it.


----------



## jim p

My server is incapable of maintaining a constant tension. I shoot for about 7 lbs but it varies from 8 to 3 lbs.

I keep hoping that someone will develop a server which will maintain a constant tension.


----------



## Irish Sitka

michaelgentry87 said:


> I finally got it down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They look awesome! ^^^
> What length are the loops from top to bottom?
> Made my first string and the loops are 3/4", I might put a little more serving on or just install the string and see how it behaves.
> For my first attempt I am well pleased, serving is tight and looking good.


----------



## poetic

So i was talking to the shop people where i work. And they thought about drilling out the all thread and nut and use roll pins for the string posts. And face the open part or lip towards the other jig. What do you guys think about this?


----------



## Huntinsker

poetic said:


> So i was talking to the shop people where i work. And they thought about drilling out the all thread and nut and use roll pins for the string posts. And face the open part or lip towards the other jig. What do you guys think about this?


It's been done. I think Automan26 posted that last year or so. Works well from what I've seen.


----------



## automan26

I have built several jigs using roll pins. Roll pins make the build process much easier because tapping the nut and all-thread can get quite nasty. The tap really likes to get stuck in the hole as you are tapping and the metal is really gummy. Roll pins have way more than enough strength for stretching out a string and I highly recommend using them.

Automan


----------



## poetic

one more question. ive checked the parts list about 5 times. but i can not find these part on it. the nut that is at the bottom of each eye screw. and how is the eye screw being held into place? unless there is another nut underneath in the uni-strut.


----------



## BlindBuck

jim p said:


> My server is incapable of maintaining a constant tension. I shoot for about 7 lbs but it varies from 8 to 3 lbs.
> 
> I keep hoping that someone will develop a server which will maintain a constant tension.


Not sure which one you're using, but if it is a Beiter you can try this. Mine holds better now but still can not always maintain the same tension.

b0w_bender's modification and photo.










Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

poetic said:


> one more question. ive checked the parts list about 5 times. but i can not find these part on it. the nut that is at the bottom of each eye screw. and how is the eye screw being held into place? unless there is another nut underneath in the uni-strut.


The eye screw is fastened to the corner bracket (the orange components of my jig), not the uni-strut. A hole must be drilled through the corner bracket to accommodate the eye screw and then the shaft of the eye screw is fastened to the corner bracket using a nut and washer above and below the bracket. The corner bracket is sandwiched between the two nuts on the shaft of the eye screw. When you have finished attaching the eye screw you will have to cut off the remaining length of shaft that remains below the corner bracket or the shaft will protrude out and be too long to clear the channel when the jig is being installed.

Automan


----------



## Irish Sitka

*First Bow String on Bow!*

Put my rig to the test and put myself to the test and made my first bow string, for an Elite GT500.
It worked a treat, I installed in on the bow and fired the bow. I will put a peep sight in soon and it will be complete.
Could not be happier, looks great.
Now looking for the number of strands for a string and cables on an Hoyt AM35?
Thanks to everyone who encouraged me and advised me on here, really appreciate it.


----------



## Huntinsker

Irish Sitka said:


> Put my rig to the test and put myself to the test and made my first bow string, for an Elite GT500.
> It worked a treat, I installed in on the bow and fired the bow. I will put a peep sight in soon and it will be complete.
> Could not be happier, looks great.
> Now looking for the number of strands for a string and cables on an Hoyt AM35?
> Thanks to everyone who encouraged me and advised me on here, really appreciate it.


Looks really good. I like that color combo.

For strand count, it depends on what material you're using. For Fury and 8190f, I'd do 28 string and 32 cables. For X Go 24 string and 26 cables. For 452x, 22 string and 24 cables. Use a normal .014 halo or 3d for the end serving and you'll be good to go.


----------



## Irish Sitka

This is what I put together to build the string sets on.
The brackets are 8" each way are and are used to support the roofs on farm sheds, they are 1/2" thick making the uprights combined 1" thick on each side. I have one spring screwed nicely into the other and get 300/ 350lbs in about 1/2" of twist.
Don't think I am getting any strain in uprights. Channel and upright are for agricultural use.
The channel is for hanging a gate on rollers and I have it screwed back to back to the normal channel underneath.
I eliminated tilt in threaded bar on spring end by welding a piece of pipe to upright and when the string was under tension there was no tilt on threaded bar in opposite upright, I have a long nut to turn for tension and I think that may have eliminated the tilt at this end. Made the loops a little big but will correct that next time.
I printed out all the instructions for building the strings and cables and have them laminated in a folder next to the rig and I can easily check what I am doing as I go!
Special thanks to Automan26 and Huntinsker for your input.


----------



## Kaveman44

you guys see the new Silver from FURY, looks sick!!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

Irish Sitka said:


> This is what I put together to build the string sets on.
> The brackets are 8" each way are and are used to support the roofs on farm sheds, they are 1/2" thick making the uprights combined 1" thick on each side. I have one spring screwed nicely into the other and get 300/ 350lbs in about 1/2" of twist.
> Don't think I am getting any strain in uprights. Channel and upright are for agricultural use.
> The channel is for hanging a gate on rollers and I have it screwed back to back to the normal channel underneath.
> I eliminated tilt in threaded bar on spring end by welding a piece of pipe to upright and when the string was under tension there was no tilt on threaded bar in opposite upright, I have a long nut to turn for tension and I think that may have eliminated the tilt at this end. Made the loops a little big but will correct that next time.
> I printed out all the instructions for building the strings and cables and have them laminated in a folder next to the rig and I can easily check what I am doing as I go!
> Special thanks to Automan26 and Huntinsker for your input.


Looks great! When you trim the tag ends, I would suggest not melting them with a lighter like you would serving, but rather just cut them flush. When you melt them, they tend to create a bump that make serving over them a little difficult. Looking good otherwise. Not bad at all for the first piece!


----------



## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> you guys see the new Silver from FURY, looks sick!!!!


Saw Rob posted it on facebook. I think that's going to be popular for sure. It looks really metallic. I hope it stays looking like that even after burnishing.


----------



## BowStringDepot

Here is a new pinstripe to try Tiger pins is what we call them its a triple pin splitting a solid color for the third pin.


----------



## Huntinsker

BowStringDepot said:


> Here is a new pinstripe to try Tiger pins is what we call them its a triple pin splitting a solid color for the third pin.
> 
> View attachment 4300929
> View attachment 4300937


Looks really cool Hutch!


----------



## BowStringDepot

Thanks Huntinsker's they are cool looking and a little hard to build. 


Hutch


----------



## BlindBuck

Huntinsker said:


> Saw Rob posted it on facebook. I think that's going to be popular for sure. It looks really metallic. I hope it stays looking like that even after burnishing.


Is it able to be ordered yet? I knew from Rob it was coming but the last I checked with him it couldn't be ordered. I know I'm anxious to get it as I think the current gray that is available does not have enough color contrast from the black. 

Can you post a picture of it here as I do not use Facebook.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

Irish Sitka said:


> This is what I put together to build the string sets on.
> The brackets are 8" each way are and are used to support the roofs on farm sheds, they are 1/2" thick making the uprights combined 1" thick on each side. I have one spring screwed nicely into the other and get 300/ 350lbs in about 1/2" of twist.
> Don't think I am getting any strain in uprights. Channel and upright are for agricultural use.
> The channel is for hanging a gate on rollers and I have it screwed back to back to the normal channel underneath.
> I eliminated tilt in threaded bar on spring end by welding a piece of pipe to upright and when the string was under tension there was no tilt on threaded bar in opposite upright, I have a long nut to turn for tension and I think that may have eliminated the tilt at this end. Made the loops a little big but will correct that next time.
> I printed out all the instructions for building the strings and cables and have them laminated in a folder next to the rig and I can easily check what I am doing as I go!
> Special thanks to Automan26 and Huntinsker for your input.[/QUOTEn
> 
> That has to be the stoutest jig I have ever seen in my life. You cold use that thing to pull a truck out of the mud. LOL You did a very good job on the design.
> 
> I have a question you can help me with. What is the diameter of the all-thread you are using? I am currently building a version of my jig that will use 1/2" all-thread and from the pictures you posted it looks like your all-thread may be close to 1/2"?
> 
> Automan


----------



## RobColella

I've been subscribed to this link for over a year now. I initially built a small jig for strictly stretching flemish and endless loop recurve bowstrings. Now, I have put together another jig from supplies around the garage that I will use to try my hand at building strings and cables for a couple of my compounds, one a single cam Brown Prism 80 and the other an Elite E35. I must thank Automan and Huntinsker for answering my question on this thread and via email. 

Below are pics of the jig I put together with extra supplies I had around the garage. Many have noted having issues getting the 1/2" thick steel bar stock. I had some 1/8" wall, 1 1/2" square perforated tubing that I cut to size. Inside of the square tubing is 1 1/4" oak cut from a single stair baluster (available at Lowes) and fit inside the square tubing. Once I persuaded it in, I drilled through it and the metal at the same time. I drilled 1/2" and 7/8" diameter holes for the bolts and oil impregnated bronze bushing accordingly. The rest of the build includes 90º Unistrut brackets, die spring cage, 5/8" threaded rod and nuts, 1/4 diameter roll pins, die spring, and needle thrust bearing assembly. The tag end tie offs are 8-32 thread machine screws in threaded inserts in the oak. I'm considering putting shrink tube over the threads of the tie offs as to not cut into the string fibers. I'm open to better suggestions for this one. There is also a 5/8" inside diameter shaft collar that I added to the spring end to give me more room to calibrate the die spring with my digital scale. Yes, I have already had this set up cranked up to #350 with no issue. As most have noted, you have to support the unistrut because it will flex before this assembly will. Still need to cut the threaded rod down, but thought I'd leave it long while I learn my way around the stretching and build process. Plus, I haven't yet decided which will be the working end for stretching and/or spinning. It's a work in progress, but I believe a solid start in the right direction. I want to add a handle for spinning and find a better way to tighten the nut rather than using a crescent wrench to bring it up to tension each time. Will add on as time permits. In the meantime, I thought I'd share with those on the fence and yet undecided. 

Spring End:









Non-spring End:









Looking forward to the builds. Now I have to order some string material. I have plenty of serving in various diameters, but only D97 from my recurve and longbow strings.

Rob C.


----------



## Huntinsker

BlindBuck said:


> Is it able to be ordered yet? I knew from Rob it was coming but the last I checked with him it couldn't be ordered. I know I'm anxious to get it as I think the current gray that is available does not have enough color contrast from the black.
> 
> Can you post a picture of it here as I do not use Facebook.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Here's the picture he posted. One looks like "gunmetal" and the other a metallic silver. Those are my names and not what they are actually being called.


----------



## Irish Sitka

To Automan

The all Thread is 3/4", the brackets are 2" x 1/2" x 8"
The channel is 2 3/4" deep by 2 1/4" wide at base.
I read in the thread that guys were having problems with pins snapping, channel warping and the up rights pulling towards each other under strain.
I had a set of up rights made for me in an engineering shop before I spotted the channel in an agricultural supply store. I also found the brackets lying beside the channel. The holes in the channel were already drilled for 3/4" bolts so I just went down that route.
It will survive a "Nuclear Attack" I am thinking??
Thanks for compliment Automan.


----------



## BlindBuck

Huntinsker said:


> Here's the picture he posted. One looks like "gunmetal" and the other a metallic silver. Those are my names and not what they are actually being called.
> 
> View attachment 4302617


Thank you for posting the picture.


The one on the left looks like the current gray I have. Can't wait to get my hands on the spool on the right. That looks perfect.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## Irish Sitka

Can anybody help me with the string and cable serving specs for a Hoyt Alphaburner please.


----------



## Jan Enthoven

Thread Attn: stringmakers post 4095

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## poetic

2X_LUNG said:


> More china braid......and Here's Brownell Fury in new tri color with pinstripes too


it looks as if the string it's self is served. around the pin stripe area. clear maybe? an the black serving, is china braid also? i watched your video prolly around 10 times. and do not see how you did the clear serving as you do here. you just served with the tag ends. now i have a few question in general. hope you can answer or anyone can answer. i see where you guys say "loops" and "ends" for serving. which is which? i thought they both were the same. i may go for the china braid serving just for the price. what sizes are you guys using? for loops, ends, center serving, string stop, and does it matter if it is for string, cables, buss'....? and if not using china for everything, recommendations? i am a noob. but willing to learn. thank you to everyone..

or if anyone else could answer these questions.


----------



## Sinister01

im pretty sure it's china braid on the loops. (loop serving) I'm not sure if the black is but it's what is referred to as end serving.


----------



## Huntinsker

Irish Sitka said:


> Can anybody help me with the string and cable serving specs for a Hoyt Alphaburner please.


Use the search function in this thread to find just about any specs you'll need. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247


----------



## poetic

Need a two post jig to serve end loops?


----------



## michaelgentry87

poetic said:


> Need a two post jig to serve end loops?


Generally a 3 or 4

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


----------



## Irish Sitka

Huntinsker said:


> Use the search function in this thread to find just about any specs you'll need. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247


Thanks Huntinsker.


----------



## OKBOWHUNTER13

When building single color strings, do y'all lay out half and cut it and then lay out other half or lay out all the strand continuous?


----------



## Kaveman44

I lay them all out unless im doing a yoke


----------



## Huntinsker

OKBOWHUNTER13 said:


> When building single color strings, do y'all lay out half and cut it and then lay out other half or lay out all the strand continuous?


Done it both ways and I like to lay out half and cut and then lay out the other half. That way I can use the tag ends to finish both loops and I personally feel that it's easier to keep constant tension over half the number of strands at a time. Not only that, but when I'm using 452x, I make strings with 22 strands. If I laid out all 22, that would put 1 tag end at each loop which is pretty useless. Instead if I do 2 bundles of 11, then there are 2 tag ends at each end and I can finish the loops normally.


----------



## Purka

22 will give you both tag ends on the one side . which is what I do and use a short length of string materiel to serve the other loop.


----------



## Huntinsker

Purka said:


> 22 will give you both tag ends on the one side . which is what I do and use a short length of string materiel to serve the other loop.


Haha, you're right. Not sure what I was thinking.


----------



## BlindBuck

Heck yeah! Silver Fury does exist for us home string builders.

Thank you 2x_Lung!!

Wish I wasn't going away this weekend.










Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Kaveman44

my wife called from home and said mine just arrived today as well!!!!


----------



## shinobi3

Mine should be here in a day or so


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## graydragon2

For those of you using a roll pin for your post, what length are y'all using

2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## automan26

graydragon2 said:


> For those of you using a roll pin for your post, what length are y'all using
> 
> 2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> 2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite
> Copper John ANTS sight x 2
> Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
> Golden Key rest x 2
> Scott Backspin
> Easton X7 Eclipse
> Easton Carbon One


I use a 2" pin for one post, and if I can find one, I like to use a 3" pin for the other post. The 3" pin works fine for fabricating a split cable. In my area there is only one place I can get 3" pins and I vowed never to enter that place again, so until I can find a source for the longer pins, I am back to using socket head cap screws. (For Now)

Automan


----------



## graydragon2

Thanks automan. How much do you leave sticking out of the top. And you use 1/4 correct 

2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## automan26

I use 1/4" pins and drive them in till they are flush with the bottom of the nut. I like roll pins much better than cap screws.

Automan


----------



## graydragon2

Just ordered a set of 2.5" ones. Figured I'd split the difference and see how it works

2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## automan26

Lately I have been experimenting with making the El-Cheap-O easier to build. In the process I built a working prototype and now that I have used it to learn what I wanted to learn, it is just going to sit in a corner of my shop, collecting dust. It works perfectly, but it looks a little strange with mismatched parts and such. Someday I would like to build a few of these jigs and sell one or two just for giggles.

Right now I have several completed jigs laying around in boxes and the wife is on my case to start unloading some of them.

I would like to make someone a deal. I am looking for a newbie who wants to get started building strings, but who does not have the resources to get a jig built. I would be willing to part with this jig for the cost of postage. If you are that newbie, PM me and we will talk about getting you this one.

Automan


----------



## Irish Sitka

Automan,
That is a wonderful offer, surely someone has contacted you already?
Looks powerful as well.


----------



## Ob1.25

Will a 32 strand fury cable fit in the cam of a PSE decree? I don't have the bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

Ob1.25 said:


> Will a 32 strand fury cable fit in the cam of a PSE decree? I don't have the bow.


It'll be fine. 32 strands of Fury is the same finished diameter of the other materials in their normal strand counts. Just make sure you're not using too big of end serving and you'll be good to go. Something like .014 halo or Bullwhip would be good choices.


----------



## Ob1.25

Huntinsker said:


> It'll be fine. 32 strands of Fury is the same finished diameter of the other materials in their normal strand counts. Just make sure you're not using too big of end serving and you'll be good to go. Something like .014 halo or Bullwhip would be good choices.


It was around .092 before serving. I used bullwhip it finished up .110. By the way thank you and everyone else in this thread for the information that you all share.


----------



## jwscott

RobColella said:


> I've been subscribed to this link for over a year now. I initially built a small jig for strictly stretching flemish and endless loop recurve bowstrings. Now, I have put together another jig from supplies around the garage that I will use to try my hand at building strings and cables for a couple of my compounds, one a single cam Brown Prism 80 and the other an Elite E35. I must thank Automan and Huntinsker for answering my question on this thread and via email.
> 
> Below are pics of the jig I put together with extra supplies I had around the garage. Many have noted having issues getting the 1/2" thick steel bar stock. I had some 1/8" wall, 1 1/2" square perforated tubing that I cut to size. Inside of the square tubing is 1 1/4" oak cut from a single stair baluster (available at Lowes) and fit inside the square tubing. Once I persuaded it in, I drilled through it and the metal at the same time. I drilled 1/2" and 7/8" diameter holes for the bolts and oil impregnated bronze bushing accordingly. The rest of the build includes 90º Unistrut brackets, die spring cage, 5/8" threaded rod and nuts, 1/4 diameter roll pins, die spring, and needle thrust bearing assembly. The tag end tie offs are 8-32 thread machine screws in threaded inserts in the oak. I'm considering putting shrink tube over the threads of the tie offs as to not cut into the string fibers. I'm open to better suggestions for this one. There is also a 5/8" inside diameter shaft collar that I added to the spring end to give me more room to calibrate the die spring with my digital scale. Yes, I have already had this set up cranked up to #350 with no issue. As most have noted, you have to support the unistrut because it will flex before this assembly will. Still need to cut the threaded rod down, but thought I'd leave it long while I learn my way around the stretching and build process. Plus, I haven't yet decided which will be the working end for stretching and/or spinning. It's a work in progress, but I believe a solid start in the right direction. I want to add a handle for spinning and find a better way to tighten the nut rather than using a crescent wrench to bring it up to tension each time. Will add on as time permits. In the meantime, I thought I'd share with those on the fence and yet undecided.
> 
> Spring End:
> 
> View attachment 4302425
> 
> 
> Non-spring End:
> 
> View attachment 4302433
> 
> 
> Looking forward to the builds. Now I have to order some string material. I have plenty of serving in various diameters, but only D97 from my recurve and longbow strings.
> 
> Rob C.


Looks great ! I built one similar. using the square tubing is the way to go. less binding on the all thread. I gave my EL-Cheap model to a neighbor kid & he is building strings for family & shooting buddies. A shout out goes to Automan & Huntinsker for putting out this great thread. KEEP THE IDEAS COMING !!!


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## TJS5452

THANKS for this inspiring thread I have been following for a couple months. 
Am new string/cable builder and new at using AT. Made the string jig and a handful of strings. 
Got some leftover ultra-cam string from local shop to start out with until worthy enough to try the good stuff like Fury. 
Now the questions. 
Ultra-cam calls for 16 strand strings. What about bus yoke cables? 
I made one(non-floating) but it looks real skinny compared to the existing bus floating yoke cable.
Is it safe to use 8 strands for each yoke leg?
Thanks
Tim

ps I'll try to get pix of everything after I figure out how to get that done.
2006 Hoyt Trykon XL, Wt 65lb, D 30", dual cam+1/2, ATA 36.5", S 57", BC 39.5"(floating yoke)/ 42.5"


----------



## caspian

couple of pinstripe sets from recent weeks.

Alphaburner red/black with fl. green pinstripe: http://i.imgur.com/QkqPO64.jpg

PodiumX with teal/black and white pinstripe: http://i.imgur.com/0qFRffG.jpg


royal blue/black with silver pin on the jig at the moment for my black/blue Apex 8.


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## TJS5452

very nice! especially red/black flo green pin.


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## TJS5452

Here is my jig.






8








Used 5/8 hex bolt 7" in place a
Of all thread.


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## jwscott

Great work. Very nice setup. I bet it works smoothly !:thumbs_up


----------



## jonw

Anyone ever tried to make strings with non served loops like the old days, if so how do you tie the strands together?


----------



## squid013

Like a Flemish twist?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## jonw

squid013 said:


> Like a Flemish twist?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


No loop has all strands showing, zebra strings use to come this way and I have seen PSE main line bows come with stings like this


----------



## squid013

Oh you just lay up on a 2 post and end serve

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

jonw said:


> No loop has all strands showing, zebra strings use to come this way and I have seen PSE main line bows come with stings like this


Not sure why you would want to. They are a pain when taking them on and off the cams while tuning. They also look cheap in my opinion.


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## squid013

Huntinsker said:


> Not sure why you would want to. They are a pain when taking them on and off the cams while tuning. They also look cheap in my opinion.


You can say that again

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## caspian

OK, so I'm a dumbass.

24 strand X string for an Apex 8 on the jig, 200lbs of tension to do the second loop serving. go to trim the tail of the windback and stab myself in the finger with the knife. reflex jerk away and BANG, straight through the string. :der:

great, 207 feet of material wasted and a lovely bird's nest of material to untangle from the tail stock. idiot.


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

caspian said:


> OK, so I'm a dumbass.
> 
> 24 strand X string for an Apex 8 on the jig, 200lbs of tension to do the second loop serving. go to trim the tail of the windback and stab myself in the finger with the knife. reflex jerk away and BANG, straight through the string. :der:
> 
> great, 207 feet of material wasted and a lovely bird's nest of material to untangle from the tail stock. idiot.


I know you aren't the first. [emoji87] [emoji86] [emoji85]


----------



## automan26

TJS5452 said:


> THANKS for this inspiring thread I have been following for a couple months.
> Am new string/cable builder and new at using AT. Made the string jig and a handful of strings.
> Got some leftover ultra-cam string from local shop to start out with until worthy enough to try the good stuff like Fury.
> Now the questions.
> Ultra-cam calls for 16 strand strings. What about bus yoke cables?
> I made one(non-floating) but it looks real skinny compared to the existing bus floating yoke cable.
> Is it safe to use 8 strands for each yoke leg?
> Thanks
> Tim
> 
> ps I'll try to get pix of everything after I figure out how to get that done.
> 2006 Hoyt Trykon XL, Wt 65lb, D 30", dual cam+1/2, ATA 36.5", S 57", BC 39.5"(floating yoke)/ 42.5"


I think you will be OK with 8 strands on each side. Brownell knows their own material well enough to give reliable info. If you go with a 16 strand string and an 18 strand cable you will definitely be on the safe side.

Automan


----------



## nestly

automan26 said:


> I think you will be OK with 8 strands on each side. Brownell knows their own material well enough to give reliable info. If you go with a 16 strand string and an 18 strand cable you will definitely be on the safe side.
> 
> Automan


Unless I'm missing something, I believe split yokes need strand counts that are divisible by 4. 18 strands means 9 strands for each yoke, so 4 1/2 strands wrapping over each axel. Technically, I guess it's possible to terminate the 5th strand under the loop serving, but I don't think I'd try it.


----------



## Irish Sitka

I have made a few string sets in the last two weeks and all is going well.
One thing I would like cleared up, I have been using the formula to get initial post setting and number of twists but keep ending up taking a number of twists out of the sets? Am I missing some measurement when setting up??

100" x .75" = 75 (number of twists).
75" x .012 = 0.9"
100" + 0.9" = 100.9"(initial post setting)
Add 75 Twists to 100.9"

I am faithfully following this formula but removing twists all the time??
I made a floating yoke last night and it required 11.26 twists, to get the correct length I am down to 3 twists??


----------



## michaelgentry87

Irish Sitka said:


> I have made a few string sets in the last two weeks and all is going well.
> One thing I would like cleared up, I have been using the formula to get initial post setting and number of twists but keep ending up taking a number of twists out of the sets? Am I missing some measurement when setting up??
> 
> 100" x .75" = 75 (number of twists).
> 75" x .012 = 0.9"
> 100" + 0.9" = 100.9"(initial post setting)
> Add 75 Twists to 100.9"
> 
> I am faithfully following this formula but removing twists all the time??
> I made a floating yoke last night and it required 11.26 twists, to get the correct length I am down to 3 twists??


Formula I use 

4 post 
Desired length x 1.009

2 post 
Desired length x 1.004

Twist divide final length by 1.5

100×1.009=100 15/16
And 100÷1.5 = 66.66 twist


Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Irish Sitka said:


> I have made a few string sets in the last two weeks and all is going well.
> One thing I would like cleared up, I have been using the formula to get initial post setting and number of twists but keep ending up taking a number of twists out of the sets? Am I missing some measurement when setting up??
> 
> 100" x .75" = 75 (number of twists).
> 75" x .012 = 0.9"
> 100" + 0.9" = 100.9"(initial post setting)
> Add 75 Twists to 100.9"
> 
> I am faithfully following this formula but removing twists all the time??
> I made a floating yoke last night and it required 11.26 twists, to get the correct length I am down to 3 twists??


The formula in the first post is just a jumping off point. That may work perfectly for you or it may not. Your build technique and equipment will determine your results so you may need to tweak the formula to get it to fit your style. If you're consistently short, tweak the formula so your initial post setting is longer. You may want to change the .012 to .017 or something like that. If you're consistently 1/8" short on a 60" string, tweak the formula so your initial post setting gives you an extra 1/8" at the beginning.


----------



## nestly

Irish Sitka said:


> I have made a few string sets in the last two weeks and all is going well.
> One thing I would like cleared up, I have been using the formula to get initial post setting and number of twists but keep ending up taking a number of twists out of the sets? Am I missing some measurement when setting up??
> 
> 100" x .75" = 75 (number of twists).
> 75" x .012 = 0.9"
> 100" + 0.9" = 100.9"(initial post setting)
> Add 75 Twists to 100.9"
> 
> I am faithfully following this formula but removing twists all the time??
> I made a floating yoke last night and it required 11.26 twists, to get the correct length I am down to 3 twists??


My first guess is that your string jig is yielding/flexing. The next time you build a string, check to see that the outside-to-outside post dimension isn't shrinking while you're laying up the string. If the initial post setting is 100.9" when you set it and it's significantly less than that after you have 24 strands wrapped around the post, then you need to stiffen the jig, reduce strand tensions while laying up the string, or increase multiplication factor in your formula. Making the jig stiffer is the best solution because if the jig is flexing, it flexes the same amount for a short string as it does for a long string. In other words, if the jig flexes in 1/4" while you're laying up a string, the string is going to end up 1/4" shorter than expected. On a very long string, you can probably get that back by removing some twists, but a short string will also end up 1/4" short, and there wont be enough twists in it to get you back where you need to be.


----------



## Huntinsker

That's a great point nestly but I don't think a jig would flex the same amount on a 100" string and on an 18" yoke unless it's the posts that are flexing and not the strut. If the strut is flexing, the shorter the string, the less it will flex. If it's the posts that's flexing, it could be the same. Measuring the difference before layup and after may help diagnose what's flexing. 

If the difference is the same on a long string and a short string, it's your posts and actual jig that's giving a bit. If they differences are different from one another, it may be your strut that's flexing.


----------



## nestly

Agree... post flex will be consistent regardless of string length, but the strut will flex more the farther the posts are apart.


----------



## automan26

nestly said:


> Unless I'm missing something, I believe split yokes need strand counts that are divisible by 4. 18 strands means 9 strands for each yoke, so 4 1/2 strands wrapping over each axel. Technically, I guess it's possible to terminate the 5th strand under the loop serving, but I don't think I'd try it.


You are correct--My Bad. I can see now why my principle never lets me teach math. LOL

Automan


----------



## TJS5452

Thanks I will give it a try. I'll try a floater also.


----------



## Irish Sitka

*Formula Question!*

Don't think there is any movement in my set up?
The brackets are 1/2" thick each making a 1" upright on each side.
The threaded bar is 3/4" and the pins to lay up string on are over 1/4".
I will tweak the formula and see what that does for me.


----------



## nestly

Are you blocking/preloading the spring end to make sure the spring isn't compressing? If you measure the posts before and after the string is layed up, you can eliminate that as a possible cause

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Irish Sitka

I will look at that next time but am sure I am not, thanks for advice.



nestly said:


> Are you blocking/preloading the spring end to make sure the spring isn't compressing? If you measure the posts before and after the string is layed up, you can eliminate that as a possible cause
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kaveman44

Flo green and the new Silver Fury , will look great on my silver Podium


----------



## Sinister01

Kaveman44 said:


> Flo green and the new Silver Fury , will look great on my silver Podium


looks great, I love that color combo.


----------



## 48archer

Sinister01 said:


> looks great, I love that color combo.


It looks like in the top pic above your middle finger and your palm that there is fibers sticking out of the material, is that material ok?


----------



## Jan Enthoven

First string stretching on my jig

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## Jan Enthoven

Tag end loops

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## Kaveman44

Built a string for my brother , we are all Miami Hurricanes fans


----------



## automan26

Jan Enthoven said:


> First string stretching on my jig
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


 I like your design very much. I think your jig looks very strong and you did a great job. 

Automan


----------



## hoppi84

Clever with the tape measure!!!


----------



## b0w_bender

automan26 said:


> I like your design very much. I think your jig looks very strong and you did a great job.
> 
> Automan


Jan, I agree with Automan26, you have a very nice Jig design right there.

Something else I noticed was this sitting on the bench








Perhaps you should explain what that is/does for those who may not recognize it right off.


----------



## jwscott

great idea on tape measure. get the length SPOT ON !!


----------



## Jan Enthoven

You mean the cat hair or the tape measure? 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## jwscott

yea thought might have been DIY CATWHISKERS !!!


----------



## Jan Enthoven

[quote name="Jan Enthoven" post=1090850306]







<br />
First string stretching on my jig<br />
<br />
Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk[/QUOTE]<br />
<br />
I like your design very much. I think your jig looks very strong and you did a great job. <br />
<br />
Automan
Thanks Automan, coming from you that is high praise. I used 40x10mm steel flatbar, the all threads is 20mm m20. I milled half of it of and welded 2 pieces of the flatbar of to it. The rest is straight forward. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## Jan Enthoven

yea thought might have been DIY CATWHISKERS !!!
You never know, they might make excellent bowstrings

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## Jan Enthoven

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1090853898

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


----------



## Jan Enthoven

jwscott said:


> great idea on tape measure. get the length SPOT ON !!


I am sure I stole that idea from someone else here in the thread 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## Irish Sitka

Is the attachment on the end of the tape measure to allow you place it over the screw at each end of the string, neat idea?


----------



## Jan Enthoven

Irish Sitka said:


> Is the attachment on the end of the tape measure to allow you place it over the screw at each end of the string, neat idea?


That is the idea.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-T110 met Tapatalk


----------



## jwscott

Jan Enthoven said:


> I am sure I stole that idea from someone else here in the thread
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


Lil John makes a tape similar to yours that comes with the purchase of their jig($600). YIKES !!! Jan thanks for the tape idea.


----------



## jwscott

would there be any noticeable difference in smoothness in the El cheapo jig with brass bushing for the threaded rod to go thru vs one without. I've seen them built both ways but don't know if there any advantage or just added parts expense . Any ideas ? THanks


----------



## automan26

jwscott said:


> would there be any noticeable difference in smoothness in the El cheapo jig with brass bushing for the threaded rod to go thru vs one without. I've seen them built both ways but don't know if there any advantage or just added parts expense . Any ideas ? THanks


If you plan to build an El-Cheap-O like the ones in the pics, the bushing will not help. These jigs use a 5/8" all-thread or carriage bolt. The hole in the corner brackets is only 9/16" so it will have to be enlarged to accommodate the 5/8" carriage bolt. In fact, you will have to go bigger than 5/8" so as to allow enough clearance for the carriage bolt to float freely. At best, you are only going to be able to find a 5/8" ID bushing and that will be too tight. Once you get the holes in the corner brackets bored out large enough, binding is a non-issue and the carriage bolt slides through the corner bracket as smooth as butter. Add a touch of grease and a drop of oil and it is darn near perfect.

If you are going to build a jig that supports the carriage bolt in two places, then the bushings might make a difference.

Automan


----------



## jwscott

thanks Automan. It seems like I buy parts for another jig everytime I go to town. I have given a pile of jigs to our club members & referred them to this thread. string building must be contagious & ADDICTIVE! The local bow shop owner told me yesterday that the sells of string building supplies has went thru the roof. Thanks to all the fellow AT members that have made this thread great resource.


----------



## Jan Enthoven

My colors for the first string on my new jig










Transition still looks a bit rough but I will get better. Be kind😊

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## graydragon2

jwscott said:


> thanks Automan. It seems like I buy parts for another jig everytime I go to town. I have given a pile of jigs to our club members & referred them to this thread. string building must be contagious & ADDICTIVE! The local bow shop owner told me yesterday that the sells of string building supplies has went thru the roof. Thanks to all the fellow AT members that have made this thread great resource.


I know the feeling. Im constantly looking for ways to upgrade my jig. Made 2 sets on my first jig and went to upgrading. Have a set of roll pins sitting in the mailbox now. Went from this







. To this









2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## graydragon2

Got the pins and spring in today. Now just got to calibrate the spring









2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## jwscott

GrayDragon what size threaded rod did you use on jig?


----------



## graydragon2

It's 5/8 All-thread 

2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## jwscott

I know this is the DIY string jig thread but I was wanting to incorporate a bowpress into my string jig unistrut. my question is how many LBS of pressure is needed to press the limb tips on a average 70 lb bow. I know it going be more than 70 lbs. anybody have any idea? THANKS


----------



## Kaveman44

Starting to get smoother , practice , practice , practice


----------



## Jan Enthoven

jwscott said:


> Lil John makes a tape similar to yours that comes with the purchase of their jig($600). YIKES !!! Jan thanks for the tape idea.


It took me half an hour to make. Just make sure you glue the tape measure in the right position. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## shinobi3

Very nice!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## graydragon2

When calibrating the spring, what is everyone using between the 2 post to hook the scale too. Also how far apart are y'all putting them.

2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## deerbum

I used a couple of old 12" floating yokes.


----------



## Huntinsker

I just hook directly to the posts.


----------



## skynight

jwscott said:


> Lil John makes a tape similar to yours that comes with the purchase of their jig($600). YIKES !!! Jan thanks for the tape idea.


You can buy just the attachment for $10 from lil John. You rivet it to the tape. 
I thought everyone used one.


----------



## automan26

Kaveman44 said:


> Starting to get smoother , practice , practice , practice


You did an excellent job on those servings. Some may builders may come close, but there's no way anyone is going to do better. Those are top-drawer my friend. GREAT WORK!!!

Automan


----------



## Kaveman44

automan26 said:


> You did an excellent job on those servings. Some may builders may come close, but there's no way anyone is going to do better. Those are top-drawer my friend. GREAT WORK!!!
> 
> Automan


Thanks Automan


----------



## shinobi3

Finally got me a BAP four post jig.... Can't wait too make a string with served end loops!


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## Kaveman44

shinobi3 said:


> Finally got me a BAP four post jig.... Can't wait too make a string with served end loops!
> 
> 
> congrats, i love my BAP Setup, best investment in a long time!


----------



## automan26

shinobi3 said:


> Finally got me a BAP four post jig.... Can't wait too make a string with served end loops!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It looks like your old El-Cheap-O did just what it was designed to do. It allowed you to get started with building strings and once you discovered that you liked it, you upgraded.

Good Move!!!!

Automan


----------



## BWBOW

asked for colorfull









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----------



## shinobi3

automan26 said:


> It looks like your old El-Cheap-O did just what it was designed to do. It allowed you to get started with building strings and once you discovered that you liked it, you upgraded.
> 
> Good Move!!!!
> 
> Automan


I'll still be using the el cheapo to stretch the string... Just using the four post to serve my loops 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Irish Sitka

Put my first string set on my Elite GT500 over the weekend, put it on Draw Board and needed to make a half twist in the downward cable. I am firing it since and it is awesome. It is a 60# DW bow, I am maxing out at 62.5# DW.
Could not be happier, thanks to everyone for the thread and please keep it going.


----------



## jwscott

Nice Job BWBOW !! Nice Loop & Serving Job ! Colorful


----------



## jwscott

Kaveman44 said:


> Starting to get smoother , practice , practice , practice


Great looking String! Nice Job Kaveman!


----------



## automan26

Irish Sitka said:


> Put my first string set on my Elite GT500 over the weekend, put it on Draw Board and needed to make a half twist in the downward cable. I am firing it since and it is awesome. It is a 60# DW bow, I am maxing out at 62.5# DW.
> Could not be happier, thanks to everyone for the thread and please keep it going.


That's great news. If you have any pics, I would love to take a look at those new threads.

Automan


----------



## Irish Sitka

*First set of string and cables on Elite GT500.*

Automan,
Hope this gives a good representation of the string set and bow.
Improving the loops all the time, was binding too tight to start with but getting better.
No peep rotation what so ever, delighted with that.
Put bow on DB before I shot it and needed to put half a twist in bottom cable.
Test firing and landing all three arrows in the bottom of a paper coffee cup at 20yds.
Would say to anyone thinking of doing this, go for it.
I was apprehensive and put it off a few times but once I got started and worked out the serving direction it is not difficult once you follow the list of instructions. I have eight bows and it is going to save me a fortune in string sets and postage. I am in Ireland.
Thanks again to Automan and everyone else who got this thread going.


----------



## automan26

Those threads really look nice!!!!!! I would bet those three arrows in that coffee cup were the most gratifying three arrows you have ever shot. There is nothing that can top stacking arrows from a string you built yourself on a jig you built yourself. If ever there was a self-sufficient archer, you fit that category nicely. It looks like that mega-jig you built is the real deal.:thumbs_up

Automan


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## graydragon2

First set of strings on the new jig and workbench. Think im gonna have to find me some heavier brackets though. Cranked it up to 300# and noticed some leaning. Be glad when I can move the bench into a building. Under the carport for now.









2004 Hoyt Ultra Elite
2009 Hoyt Ultra Elite 
Copper John ANTS sight x 2
Fuse Carbon VFR stabilizers
Golden Key rest x 2
Scott Backspin
Easton X7 Eclipse
Easton Carbon One


----------



## automan26

I wouldn't be too concerned about any leaning you may see in your jig, it's just a bit of flexing, it has absolutely no effect on the outcome of the finished product.

Automan


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## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> I wouldn't be too concerned about any leaning you may see in your jig, it's just a bit of flexing, it has absolutely no effect on the outcome of the finished product.
> 
> Automan


Hey! Who stole Automan and put a picture of his younger twin brother? Younger twin brother? How can that be? Ha ha ha. This is a great thread. I'm still watching,even though I just moved to a new home in PA. From NY. And my Jig is still packed away. Hope this never ends. Thanks!


----------



## automan26

Someone once said old age is just a state of mind. I said, "That's true...they call it Alzheimer's."

I am thrilled to see so many guys jumping into string building. I could never have imagined that the El-Cheap-O would have made so many friends.

Automan


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## shinobi3

First served loop is done


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----------



## shinobi3

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I wouldn't be too concerned about any leaning you may see in your jig, it's just a bit of flexing, it has absolutely no effect on the outcome of the finished product.
> 
> Automan


Yep. Mine lean too but the eye bolts keep the all thread nice and level. Almost every jig will lean some when you start putting the screws to it.


----------



## Irish Sitka

automan26 said:


> Those threads really look nice!!!!!! I would bet those three arrows in that coffee cup were the most gratifying three arrows you have ever shot. There is nothing that can top stacking arrows from a string you built yourself on a jig you built yourself. If ever there was a self-sufficient archer, you fit that category nicely. It looks like that mega-jig you built is the real deal.:thumbs_up
> 
> Automan


Automan,
It sure is a pleasure launching arrows from my own made string, love it. I now have completed the final task in archery I set myself when I started archery 9 years ago. I first learned to do all my own running repairs as the nearest bow shop to me is on the east coast of USA 3,000 miles away. I have every tool in the box required to work on bows and have a press, draw board, hooter shooter and bench vice.
Now that I am adding string building to the list it is the icing on the cake!!
Made a string for a 22lb recurve bow over the past two nights and am well pleased with it, I will post some photos when I get home.
I introduced my buddy's 9 year old daughter to archery lately and am presenting her with the bow + a new string on Friday night. She went on a visit to an activity center and topped the group in archery, think she is hooked.


----------



## Kaveman44

anyone ever put a drop of super glue on the serving where the TPU Speed Nocks are to help them hold?


----------



## nestly

No, but I tried adding additional serving under them to keep them in place which I was surprised to discover didn't work either. I no longer use TPU speed nocks for that reason. I've had no trouble with Pine Ridge Nitro Button XL's moving.


----------



## jwscott

A little dab of super glue works for me.


----------



## Huntinsker

I've used superglue, just a drop and it works well. Never had one move on me.


----------



## Kaveman44

good to know, thanks guys


----------



## deerbum

I'm swapping out limbs so thought I would make a new Fury set for them, should look pretty cocky once they are rigged up. Now I need to take up anodizing to recolor that hideous red cam module- some day.


----------



## jwscott

nice threads Deerbum!


----------



## Oncorhynchus

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## deerbum

The string turned out well, used some home brew serving clarifier that seems to be what I was looking for. I used an online recipe for liquid dry fly floatant, the first use left a white waxy residue so I added about an 1/8th teaspoon of mineral oil to a quart and that seemed to eliminate that- looks great I think. Shhhh- don't tell anybody.:wink:


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

deerbum said:


> The string turned out well, used some home brew serving clarifier that seems to be what I was looking for. I used an online recipe for liquid dry fly floatant, the first use left a white waxy residue so I added about an 1/8th teaspoon of mineral oil to a quart and that seemed to eliminate that- looks great I think. Shhhh- don't tell anybody.:wink:


Where did you get your colored heat shrink? And what size did you use? All I can find here is black and red.


----------



## deerbum

It's Saunders silicone peep tubing, although colored shrink tubing is available online- just google it.


----------



## deerbum

deerbum said:


> It's Saunders silicone peep tubing, although colored shrink tubing is available online- just google it.


It's Pine Ridge tubing not Saunders- sorry.


----------



## Sinister01

deerbum said:


> It's Pine Ridge tubing not Saunders- sorry.


looks good, nice job on the loops.


----------



## Ob1.25

I have followed the thread for a while now. Never attempted to even build a string before this thread. Thanks to all who have shared information. Building for friends and myself, i am running out of friends and I need to buy some more bows now. Building is additive...


----------



## NoDeerInIowa

Ob1.25 said:


> I have followed the thread for a while now. Never attempted to even build a string before this thread. Thanks to all who have shared information. Building for friends and myself, i am running out of friends and I need to buy some more bows now. Building is additive...
> 
> View attachment 4429161
> 
> View attachment 4429185
> 
> View attachment 4429193
> 
> View attachment 4429201


What jig are you using?


----------



## Irish Sitka

OB1.25 that is some neat work?
I am new to string building as well and what you have made is inspiring!
You must have a 4 post to be able to serve loops like that?
I am planning a 4 post soon.
Great work, keep it up.


----------



## automan26

Ob1.25 said:


> I have followed the thread for a while now. Never attempted to even build a string before this thread. Thanks to all who have shared information. Building for friends and myself, i am running out of friends and I need to buy some more bows now. Building is additive...
> 
> View attachment 4429161
> .
> View attachment 4429185
> 
> View attachment 4429193
> 
> View attachment 4429201


I am blown away (and green with envy) when I see the quality of work appearing on this thread. Newbies are showing up here, building like seasoned pro builders. I need to back and work on my own skills just to keep up with the new guys.

Automan


----------



## automan26

I just received a PM from a viewer of this thread and I tried to reply, but something is wrong and AT won't allow you to receive my PMs. SJ, I don't have a solution as yet to your question, but your idea as really sparked my interest to build what you are looking for.

What the heck, I'll throw this out for everyone. SJ was wondering if I had an idea on how to build a 4-post jig from off the shelf parts just like the El-Cheap-O. SJ needs something that can be built without any welding or complicated machining. I had never given it a thought before, but this is a great challenge. I am going to start working on it, but I hope someone here figures it out before I do.

Automan


----------



## Soo Jit

Hi Automan,

Thanks for putting up my question to this post!!!

While everyone is cracking their head on the El-Cheap-O 4-post Jig challenge. Attached below is my El-Cheap-O Jig.









SJ


----------



## Pjones9700

automan26 said:


> I just received a PM from a viewer of this thread and I tried to reply, but something is wrong and AT won't allow you to receive my PMs. SJ, I don't have a solution as yet to your question, but your idea as really sparked my interest to build what you are looking for.
> 
> What the heck, I'll throw this out for everyone. SJ was wondering if I had an idea on how to build a 4-post jig from off the shelf parts just like the El-Cheap-O. SJ needs something that can be built without any welding or complicated machining. I had never given it a thought before, but this is a great challenge. I am going to start working on it, but I hope someone here figures it out before I do.
> 
> Automan


Hi automan / et al

For my 4 post set up I used 2 one foot sections I cut off the Unistrut. 

I am for the uk so all my stuff as in metric, but below is a parts list of the imperial equivalents
4 off 1/2" bolts 6" long
8 off 1/2" nuts
8 off 1/2" flat washers
4 off 1/2" Spring washers
4 off 1/4" cap screws 2.5" long
4 off 1/4" nuts
2 off 1/2" bolt 2.5" long
2 off 1/2" Unistrut nuts
And of course 2 off 1' lengths of Unistrut.

You will also need a few small machine screws and nuts for the tag end securing arrangement and a 1/4" tap set.

I started by drilling and tapping all four long bolts, drilling down through the top of the bolt. Need to ensure these are centred on the head of the bolt. These then tapped and the 4 cap screws set in them with a nut to assist in ensuring they are a snug fit and remain tight.
Then for each of the posts, run a nut and then a washer down the thread of throng bolt, place it in the Unistrut as shown the use another flat washer, a spring washer and the another nut.

Make all four bolts tight and ensure they are straight. You may need to use a little touch with a hammer to get them set, but once done ensure everything is tight.. The centre of the Unistrut will need to be drill with 1/2" hole to allow the shorter 1/2" bolt to fit through to secure it to the main Unistrut.

On my set up I get 9" between the posts.

Hope this all helps.
Phil

Also don't judge my attempts at a tension head as it is still a work in progress!!










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ob1.25

NoDeerInIowa said:


> What jig are you using?


 Baker Archery Products. Butch makes some great stuff.


----------



## Ob1.25

When setting up the four post make sure to measure center to center of your post. Say yours is 9 inches CENTER to CENTER(NOT outside to outside nor inside to inside) of the post you will take that and subtract it from the layup length that you formula calls for. That is how far you post will be apart. Depending on the integrity of the jig you could get some flex and uneven tension on the strands as you wrap. This is more likely to happen on the four post setup. Have patience and keep good notes.


----------



## jwscott

i like the design of the 3 post Pronghorn Jig (tension while serving loop)


----------



## Ob1.25

jwscott said:


> i like the design of the 3 post Pronghorn Jig (tension while serving loop)


You can do the same with a 4 post setup. I use my tension head if i don't have a string to stretch. If i do have a string to stretch i just use a turn buckle like in the picture. With the 3 post setup on a 2 color string and or pin stripes you'd have to untie the tag ends move the string and tie those tag end back down. The pronghorn setup will work great though.


----------



## jtrump

Phew, this looks more complicated then when I got into making my own bullets eeeeek. Thanks for the info!


----------



## skynight

Ob1.25 said:


> You can do the same with a 4 post setup. I use my tension head if i don't have a string to stretch. If i do have a string to stretch i just use a turn buckle like in the picture. With the 3 post setup on a 2 color string and or pin stripes you'd have to untie the tag ends move the string and tie those tag end back down. The pronghorn setup will work great though.
> View attachment 4433817


I've been leaving all the tags at one end using a three post little Jon jig. I described my experiments back around page 133 or so. Works pretty well. I've started back serving the tags around only half the bundle to keep it smaller for the end serving transition. I only tie single or two color strings.


----------



## poetic

Hello all. I have a couple parts laying around. I getting a jig already made for me. So I do not need these parts. So I was wondering if anyone needs these. Just at cost. I'll pay shipping. If not no biggie... so I think it's about 14-15 buck at the most... the four pieces have never been used what so ever... they are the McMaster-carr parts that are needed. Going to put the funds towards the unistrut... thanks guys Shoot me a pm.









Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

Soo Jit said:


> Hi Automan,
> 
> Thanks for putting up my question to this post!!!
> 
> While everyone is cracking their head on the El-Cheap-O 4-post Jig challenge. Attached below is my El-Cheap-O Jig.
> 
> View attachment 4430617
> 
> 
> SJ


That looks great. You can break off those springs from the 8 square nuts and you will be really happy with how much smoother the jig heads move when you are adjusting the distance between the posts. I can't wait to see your first set of threads.

Automan


----------



## shinobi3

New fury grey color... Also just started using a four post jig. I noticed when I placed it on the two post to stretch the colors are intertwined.. Does this matter or does it affect the string in anyway??? Thanks










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## caspian

automan26 said:


> I am blown away


as am I. that's an absolutely top shelf shelf result. superb finish on the set.


----------



## adventuregeorge

tagged


----------



## Bownut400

poetic said:


> Hello all. I have a couple parts laying around. I getting a jig already made for me. So I do not need these parts. So I was wondering if anyone needs these. Just at cost. I'll pay shipping. If not no biggie... so I think it's about 14-15 buck at the most... the four pieces have never been used what so ever... they are the McMaster-carr parts that are needed. Going to put the funds towards the unistrut... thanks guys Shoot me a pm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I used those bearings for a while but they ended up falling apart. If that bearing fails try this one next. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Irish Sitka

The bearing you show in the drawing is the one I use, I keep it oiled and it works well.


----------



## shinobi3

shinobi3 said:


> New fury grey color... Also just started using a four post jig. I noticed when I placed it on the two post to stretch the colors are intertwined.. Does this matter or does it affect the string in anyway??? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Anybody??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

I have never had a problem with intertwined color strands. I have had it happen from time to time and the string still performs up to my expectations. Once the string is twisted, stretched, relaxed, stretched, and served under tension, those intertwined strands will have found their place in life and will stay put. If you could see inside the string you would see that there are strands of the same color that are out of line with other strands of the same color, and are exactly like the misalignment you see on the outside of the string. Cosmetics are the only issue with your string, and unless you are serving with clear serving, you are golden.

Automan


----------



## caspian

I'm not a fan of clear serving, simply because minor flaws get hidden under serving so the presentation part of the string can be "for pretty".

some of the pics people post with clear serving showing perfect twist and separation all the way up to the loops astound me.


----------



## Huntinsker

shinobi3 said:


> Anybody??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just started using a 4 post jig myself and found that you have to be very careful to not let the string twist when you're serving the end loops. To prevent that, I put a golf tee through the bundle so that it angles by the post on either side that you're serving and keeps the long portion of the bundle from twisting. Then when you're transferring it to the stretcher, keep tension on it so that the fibers don't "get out of place" and if you see a twist in the bundle, you may need to roll the served loop end over once to get any twist out. An example would be if you made a red and white string and laid the white out on top of the red. After serving the loops, the long section of the bundle has the red fibers rolling to the top after serving the loops. You would then be able to roll it back to the bottom before stretching.


----------



## OKBOWHUNTER13

How do y'all guys keep the tag end serving from coming through the end serving? Am I tag end serving to loosely or serving the ends to tight?


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

Try backing off tension a bit about the last inch, should help u out.


----------



## Ledbetter Buck

When I bring both sides together with last tag end I pull those real tight


----------



## Huntinsker

First thing you can do to help prevent that is to make sure you pull those tag end very tight when laying the wraps down and then don't pull the tag end so hard on the back serve that it bunches up what you just laid down. You want to make sure you pull it snug so it won't come undone but if it's bunching up, you're pulling too much. Remember that the serving will help hold it in place so it's not going anywhere. Then when serving over it, you can back the tension off a little like Ledbetter Buck said. You don't have to back it off a ton but a little will help.


----------



## michaelgentry87

Lay a piece of extra material down like a loop one size bigger than your serving 
Wrap over that and tuck in and use it to pull through as well

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## caspian

from the way the serving has sunken into the underlying string, it does look like a combination of loose tag serving and possibly too tight end serving.

mind you, I always have to fight any little winks of colour coming through dark serving from a light colour underneath, especially around stepping off the end of the loop serving. I've been known to cheat a bit and hit that area with a black sharpie just before I go over it.


----------



## Spiffy2-50

Finished the 4 post jig, stretcher and draw board
Just ordered string material cant wait to try it out.


----------



## Purka

caspian said:


> from the way the serving has sunken into the underlying string, it does look like a combination of loose tag serving and possibly too tight end serving.
> 
> mind you, I always have to fight any little winks of colour coming through dark serving from a light colour underneath, especially around stepping off the end of the loop serving. I've been known to cheat a bit and hit that area with a black sharpie just before I go over it.


Since I changed to serving too the loops I don't have that problem.


----------



## automan26

OKBOWHUNTER13 said:


> How do y'all guys keep the tag end serving from coming through the end serving? Am I tag end serving to loosely or serving the ends to tight?



Let me give you a couple other hints about solving your problem. First, it looks like you are closing your loops by wrapping the tag end around both bundles, pulling them together, then securing them by wrapping them around the bundles a few times. This will give you a lot of tag end to serve over which can cause exactly what you show in your pic. You can simply wrap both sides of the loop until you have gone down a healthy inch or so on both sides, then separate the bundles and wrap the tag on each side several times through the center of the bundle then let the tag hang. Do this on each side and don't worry about closing the loop. When you twist the string the loop will close itself nicely and you can simply serve over it, then cut the hanging tags when your serving tool gets close and keep on serving. Remember to serve toward the loop. There is really nothing to be gained by closing the loop before twisting and serving.

Second, I see that you are using flo green. It makes a sweet string, but I hate that stuff. Flo green really likes to do just what you show in the pics. Keep a Sharpie handy and blacken-in those nasty green fibers and it will look a ton better.

Automan


----------



## OKBOWHUNTER13

Thank you for the tips everyone


----------



## gyandell

I know this is an older thread,but it has a lot of great info.
Thanks


----------



## caspian

Purka said:


> Since I changed to serving too the loops I don't have that problem.


yeah. the only time I've had one go poorly of late was when someone wanted a particular colour of end serving, and all I had was a smaller diameter than what I had used for the loops. bad move, it just doesn't look nice no matter what you do with it.


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## Huntinsker

gyandell said:


> I know this is an older thread,but it has a lot of great info.
> Thanks


Not sure if it's old or just long living. We're still going strong nearly every day. Got a great group of people contributing.


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## Time2Panic

Thanks!


----------



## poetic

Get some Brownell Nylon Serving #4 and 62xs .025 serving material from the classifieds coming to me. Will be using bohining blazer double lock nocks. Is this good serving?

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## Huntinsker

poetic said:


> Get some Brownell Nylon Serving #4 and 62xs .025 serving material from the classifieds coming to me. Will be using bohining blazer double lock nocks. Is this good serving?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


The Nylon is basically only used by recurve guys and the .025" 62xs is going to be pretty big for a standard diameter string bundle. Sounds like you got them from a recurve guy that shot skinny strings and needed the large serving to fit his nocks. I've never needed larger than .021" 62xs for centers though now I'm using mostly .018" powergrip.


----------



## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> The Nylon is basically only used by recurve guys and the .025" 62xs is going to be pretty big for a standard diameter string bundle. Sounds like you got them from a recurve guy that shot skinny strings and needed the large serving to fit his nocks. I've never needed larger than .021" 62xs for centers though now I'm using mostly .018" powergrip.


Ditto, because of the material and the type of braid, .018 Powergrip ends up being the same diameter as .021 62XS. The only time I ever use .025 center serving is for kids bows where the strings are thin ( ie 20 strands) The only nylon serving I have is for tying in peeps and nocking points.


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## NP Archery

OKBOWHUNTER13 said:


> How do y'all guys keep the tag end serving from coming through the end serving? Am I tag end serving to loosely or serving the ends to tight?


Probably gonna be in the minority here but I think anything more than a wrap or 2 past the loop with your tag ends is overkill and places too much extra material where the loops transition into the main bundle. You are asking alot of the end serving to try and cover all of that up. You have already criss-crossed the 2 tags and wrapped them many times around the loop bundle. As long as the end serving covers over a bit where the tags end at, the tagged-served loops are not going any where, JMO.


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## NP Archery

I never wrapped the loops with tags. This shows a single back wrap with the tag stuck thru the bundle. Alot less bulky and will never move.


----------



## NP Archery

NOTE....that should have read...I never close the loops with tags.


----------



## automan26

I agree.....leave the loops open, they will close themselves nicely when the twists are applied.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Yep, there's no real need to close the loops with the tag ends.


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## Ob1.25

caspian said:


> as am I. that's an absolutely top shelf shelf result. superb finish on the set.


Thanks


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## shinobi3

I'm liking the look of the served loops.... I wish my tag ends looked that good like above









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## caspian

poetic said:


> Get some Brownell Nylon Serving #4 and 62xs .025 serving material from the classifieds coming to me. Will be using bohining blazer double lock nocks. Is this good serving?


I'm not a fan of #4 for several reasons.

- it's too large for narrow groove cams, and tends to make a large lump where you close out the end serving and transition into the end serving.
- it's not very hard wearing around pinch/grind points, or in the nocking point.
- it stretches.
- it's quite weak, so if you put any sort of tension into a backwind, you will break the serving off trying to snug it down. you then can't pull on it very hard to get the last slack out of the closed serving.
- it will probably end up too large for proper nock fit on a typical strand count string.

it's OK for cheap recurve and trad strings, but you really do need something better for compounds. buy some Halo or 62XS, and once you have an empty spool, move onto dyneema fishing line.


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## poetic

caspian said:


> I'm not a fan of #4 for several reasons.
> 
> - it's too large for narrow groove cams, and tends to make a large lump where you close out the end serving and transition into the end serving.
> - it's not very hard wearing around pinch/grind points, or in the nocking point.
> - it stretches.
> - it's quite weak, so if you put any sort of tension into a backwind, you will break the serving off trying to snug it down. you then can't pull on it very hard to get the last slack out of the closed serving.
> - it will probably end up too large for proper nock fit on a typical strand count string.
> 
> it's OK for cheap recurve and trad strings, but you really do need something better for compounds. buy some Halo or 62XS, and once you have an empty spool, move onto dyneema fishing line.


The serving you replied to was for center serving only. I have some 40# 0.32mm coming in, for end serving. Anybody use fishing line for center serving?

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## deerbum

poetic said:


> The serving you replied to was for center serving only. I have some 40# 0.32mm coming in, for end serving. Anybody use fishing line for center serving?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I tried some 8 strand Spectra and it separated easily. Save yourself the hassle and get some Powergrip- there is no comparison between the two in gripping ability. One 120 yard spool will make a lot of center servings.


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## Huntinsker

If you're going to use fishing line, I'd suggest the 4 strand braid over the 8 strand braid. The 8 strand is just too slick to hold the string well so it's more prone to separation.


----------



## caspian

even the 4 strand moves around too much. I have not tried Powergrip but Diamondback doesn't move.



poetic said:


> The serving you replied to was for center serving only.


I still would steer clear of it. it wears too fast under the nock. I'll make cheap recurve strings out of it, but it's too much hassle to get a compound retuned with a new string to begrudge the few cents of cost.


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## OKBOWHUNTER13

What's yall thoughts or experience on temptature when building or storing built strings or material. For example in the house or in a non air conditioning shed/building


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## automan26

At this very moment in time I am supervising summer school, spending 6 hours a day staring at the back of one kid's head while he works on his computer. All my prep work for next year is done and, since I am totally out of things to do, I decided to put together a massive, pic heavy, PowerPoint covering the complete construction and operation of the El-Cheap-O. I decided that this might be useful for the guy who wants to build one, but needs a detailed set of instructions to get him started. I would like to find a way to provide free access to this PowerPoint for anyone on this thread who needs that last slight nudge to jump in. I don't do Facebook, and I don't have access to a website on which to host it, but I know there has to be a way to get it out in the cloud somewhere so it can be accessed without charge. I would ask our tech people here at school, but this is summer vacation and they are a bit scarce at this time. Even though I sit at a computer all day, in some areas I am a total technosaurus.

Any ideas?

Automan


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## Jan Enthoven

automan26 said:


> At this very moment in time I am supervising summer school, spending 6 hours a day staring at the back of one kid's head while he works on his computer. All my prep work for next year is done and, since I am totally out of things to do, I decided to put together a massive, pic heavy, PowerPoint covering the complete construction and operation of the El-Cheap-O. I decided that this might be useful for the guy who wants to build one, but needs a detailed set of instructions to get him started. I would like to find a way to provide free access to this PowerPoint for anyone on this thread who needs that last slight nudge to jump in. I don't do Facebook, and I don't have access to a website on which to host it, but I know there has to be a way to get it out in the cloud somewhere so it can be accessed without charge. I would ask our tech people here at school, but this is summer vacation and they are a bit scarce at this time. Even though I sit at a computer all day, in some areas I am a total technosaurus.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Automan


You can save it on Google Drive or any other cloud storage site, and give anyone with the link reading access. Then you can post the link here if that is allowed. 

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## shinobi3

New string build















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## Huntinsker

OKBOWHUNTER13 said:


> What's yall thoughts or experience on temptature when building or storing built strings or material. For example in the house or in a non air conditioning shed/building


Personally, I don't think it matters. As long as the materials are all the same temperature, they should react the same on the jig/stretcher, no matter the temperature.


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## automan26

Jan Enthoven said:


> You can save it on Google Drive or any other cloud storage site, and give anyone with the link reading access. Then you can post the link here if that is allowed.
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


I will look into that. This is going to be a massive PowerPoint when it is finished. I am going to start with a pic of a bare bench top, then photograph each step all the way through the jig building process, then I will show how to use the jig and end up with a pic heavy string building tutorial using the jig that was just built.. The last photo will be that same bench top with a completed string. I will close with FAQs. I am going to link everything, similar to a webpage, so one quickly find answers. I hope to make things so clear that anyone can take the presentation and completely walk through the process from a bare bench to a finished string in 30 days. My goal is to post this up so any newbie will be able to jump in and hit the ground running, and in the El-Cheap-O spirit, the information will be provided free of charge to anyone who surfs this thread.

Automan


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## automan26

*Let Me Help You To Help Me*

Well, after many, many, many, many hours of work, I finally finished my PowerPoint tutorial, but I cannot find a method of posting it up so anyone can access it for free. I am currently working on selling an El-Cheap-O or two on Ebay and I would like to throw in a DVD containing this PowerPoint to sweeten the deal. I would also like to sell it at a very affordable price so anyone, surfing Ebay, could use it to jump into string building. This presentation is designed to take someone step-by-step-by-step through a pic-heavy guide about building the jig all the way through to the finished string. The presentation starts with a bare bench top then contains a photo documentary all the way through and back to that same bench top which displays a brand new jig, string, and cable.

I am looking to make someone a great deal. I would like to find someone who is an interested and serious newbie and send him this DVD free of charge if he would agree to give an honest stab at building a jig and a string. I am interested in feedback on any improvements that could be made to the presentation. If I can't find a newbie, I would also be interested in sending this to an experienced builder for review and critique.

If anyone is interested in looking this over and/or giving it a go, PM me and I will send it to you FREE OF CHARGE.

Automan


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## automan26

I have a taker on the free offer, so I will hold off on any more requests. I still want to make this available to everyone. If I do say so myself, I think this is really going to be a great help when it is completely up and going.

Automan


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## Memmax

Congratulations to the "winner".

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## Jan Enthoven

automan26 said:


> Well, after many, many, many, many hours of work, I finally finished my PowerPoint tutorial, but I cannot find a method of posting it up so anyone can access it for free. I am currently working on selling an El-Cheap-O or two on Ebay and I would like to throw in a DVD containing this PowerPoint to sweeten the deal. I would also like to sell it at a very affordable price so anyone, surfing Ebay, could use it to jump into string building. This presentation is designed to take someone step-by-step-by-step through a pic-heavy guide about building the jig all the way through to the finished string. The presentation starts with a bare bench top then contains a photo documentary all the way through and back to that same bench top which displays a brand new jig, string, and cable.
> 
> I am looking to make someone a great deal. I would like to find someone who is an interested and serious newbie and send him this DVD free of charge if he would agree to give an honest stab at building a jig and a string. I am interested in feedback on any improvements that could be made to the presentation. If I can't find a newbie, I would also be interested in sending this to an experienced builder for review and critique.
> 
> If anyone is interested in looking this over and/or giving it a go, PM me and I will send it to you FREE OF CHARGE.
> 
> Automan


I will have a go at it

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----------



## adventurejack

saved


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## adventurejack

saved


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## automan26

https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrei9rfndv35rr/El-Cheap-O 3.1.ppsx?dl=0

Let's see if this works. I have my PowerPoint 2013 version uploaded to Dropbox.

This is how I build the jig and the string building instructions are what has proven to work for me. Some will disagree with some of the things contained in this presentation. I welcome comments. I know this might open a can of worms, but here goes....

I just checked its performance through DropBox and none of the links work, which is one of the best features of this PowerPoint. The whole idea was to make this a tutorial that could be navigated through so information could be accessed easily. Anyway, for what it's worth here it is. I think you are going to have to go through the entire 96 slide program to view it all, but what the heck...here it is.

At least it will have working links when I include the DVD as part of the purchase, if and when, I start offering and El-Cheap-O or two once in a while on EBay.

Hints and comments are welcome. 

Automan


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## 138104

Was able to download, but you need to have a Dropbox account. Instructions look great and are easy to follow. Nice job and thank you!


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## stickman6

The chapter links seemed to work for me. Thank you for the hard work. I can't wait to try it out myself. 


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## stickman6

Hold up. I see what your saying. Once in Dropbox the links no longer function. 


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## SamT

automan26 said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrei9rfndv35rr/El-Cheap-O 3.1.ppsx?dl=0
> 
> Let's see if this works. I have my PowerPoint 2013 version uploaded to Dropbox.
> 
> Automan


Great job Automan!! Thanks for all of your hard work on this.


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## Memmax

automan26 said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrei9rfndv35rr/El-Cheap-O 3.1.ppsx?dl=0
> 
> Let's see if this works. I have my PowerPoint 2013 version uploaded to Dropbox.
> 
> This is how I build the jig and the string building instructions are what has proven to work for me. Some will disagree with some of the things contained in this presentation. I welcome comments. I know this might open a can of worms, but here goes....
> 
> I just checked its performance through DropBox and none of the links work, which is one of the best features of this PowerPoint. The whole idea was to make this a tutorial that could be navigated through so information could be accessed easily. Anyway, for what it's worth here it is. I think you are going to have to go through the entire 96 slide program to view it all, but what the heck...here it is.
> 
> At least it will have working links when I include the DVD as part of the purchase, if and when, I start offering and El-Cheap-O or two once in a while on EBay.
> 
> Hints and comments are welcome.
> 
> Automan


Awesome job Automan. Thank you very much for all your hard work.

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## Jan Enthoven

automan26 said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrei9rfndv35rr/El-Cheap-O 3.1.ppsx?dl=0
> 
> Let's see if this works. I have my PowerPoint 2013 version uploaded to Dropbox.
> 
> This is how I build the jig and the string building instructions are what has proven to work for me. Some will disagree with some of the things contained in this presentation. I welcome comments. I know this might open a can of worms, but here goes....
> 
> I just checked its performance through DropBox and none of the links work, which is one of the best features of this PowerPoint. The whole idea was to make this a tutorial that could be navigated through so information could be accessed easily. Anyway, for what it's worth here it is. I think you are going to have to go through the entire 96 slide program to view it all, but what the heck...here it is.
> 
> At least it will have working links when I include the DVD as part of the purchase, if and when, I start offering and El-Cheap-O or two once in a while on EBay.
> 
> Hints and comments are welcome.
> 
> Automan


Great work. 

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## automan26

I am getting some good feedback on improvements to the PowerPoint..ThanX. I will wait until I have enough suggestions for improvements to warrant a making a revision then I will post up the 3.2 version. Also, if anyone can think of questions I should be adding to the FAQ page, let me know. If there is important material that should be included in the questions I have already dealt with, let me know so I can keep up with questions before they arise. With over 4500 posts to this thread, many new guys read a page or two up front, then skip to the back and begin reading along and miss tons of great material in between. I hope to make this PowerPoint something that will help more guys jump into string building and develop the interest to read all the posts on this thread.

I went to another computer and opened the link to Dropbox and it opened, and worked without having to download the app, which is good news. Remember that you have to download the PowerPoint before you can get the links to work properly.

Automan


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## tote

automan26 said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrei9rfndv35rr/El-Cheap-O 3.1.ppsx?dl=0
> 
> Let's see if this works. I have my PowerPoint 2013 version uploaded to Dropbox.
> 
> Automan








AMAZING WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RatherBArchery

quick question?? how many sets of strings/cables do you think I can get out of a 1/8# spool?? Bow is 36" ATA and I like to build 28 strand cables and 26 strand strings out of Trophy.


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## nestly

RatherBArchery said:


> quick question?? how many sets of strings/cables do you think I can get out of a 1/8# spool?? Bow is 36" ATA and I like to build 28 strand cables and 26 strand strings out of Trophy.


About 4 to 4 1/2.

BCY website gives the approximate string length per pound for each of it's string materials, (Trophy is 8000 feet per pound) so just divide that by your spool size to figure out how many feet are on the spool, then multiply the total string and cable length for the bow times the number of strands and that's how many feet you need per bow. (less waste)


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## RatherBArchery

Thanks!!


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## bseltzer

Sorry if this question has already been answered. How do y'all deal with the wear and tear this obsession places on the hands? Well, fingers actually, the pinkies in particular. I know, I know, don't pull hard on skinny stringy things with your bare hands, and I do have the tools to do the job without bodily harm. I just don't always have them within easy reach at the opportune time. Nor am I always patient enough to stop what I'm doing to go get them.

Seems to me I saw a video in which the presenter had a set of gloves that left the thumb, fore- and middle fingers bare, but covered the palm and last 2 fingers. Looked like a good solution, but I haven't been able to locate a pair. What other options might there be? Thanks


----------



## Memmax

bseltzer said:


> Sorry if this question has already been answered. How do y'all deal with the wear and tear this obsession places on the hands? Well, fingers actually, the pinkies in particular. I know, I know, don't pull hard on skinny stringy things with your bare hands, and I do have the tools to do the job without bodily harm. I just don't always have them within easy reach at the opportune time. Nor am I always patient enough to stop what I'm doing to go get them.
> 
> Seems to me I saw a video in which the presenter had a set of gloves that left the thumb, fore- and middle fingers bare, but covered the palm and last 2 fingers. Looked like a good solution, but I haven't been able to locate a pair. What other options might there be? Thanks


Go to harbor freight and spend $4 on a cheap pair of mechanics gloves and cut the fingers off.

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## bseltzer

Memmax said:


> Go to harbor freight and spend $4 on a cheap pair of mechanics gloves and cut the fingers off.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Thanks. I'll have a look see.


----------



## nestly

bseltzer said:


> Sorry if this question has already been answered. How do y'all deal with the wear and tear this obsession places on the hands? Well, fingers actually, the pinkies in particular. I know, I know, don't pull hard on skinny stringy things with your bare hands, and I do have the tools to do the job without bodily harm. I just don't always have them within easy reach at the opportune time. Nor am I always patient enough to stop what I'm doing to go get them.
> ...


I tried gloves and vet wrap, but now I simply tie a loop EVERY time I cut a string or serving and install a hairpin/cotter pin. I also use them for backserving. Haven't had a cut or sore fingers since. Basically, I NEVER pull on string/serving with my fingers anymore, all the tension is applied to the hairpins.


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## SamT

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&p=1070454924#post1070454924


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## Pjones9700

bseltzer said:


> Sorry if this question has already been answered. How do y'all deal with the wear and tear this obsession places on the hands? Well, fingers actually, the pinkies in particular. I know, I know, don't pull hard on skinny stringy things with your bare hands, and I do have the tools to do the job without bodily harm. I just don't always have them within easy reach at the opportune time. Nor am I always patient enough to stop what I'm doing to go get them.
> 
> Seems to me I saw a video in which the presenter had a set of gloves that left the thumb, fore- and middle fingers bare, but covered the palm and last 2 fingers. Looked like a good solution, but I haven't been able to locate a pair. What other options might there be? Thanks


I use a pair of haemostats that o got from work, they clamp very effectively and allow a good strong pull


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## bseltzer

Pjones9700 said:


> I use a pair of haemostats that o got from work, they clamp very effectively and allow a good strong pull.


I've got several sets of hemostats, and I agree they work very well indeed. The problem is they're have a habit of being on the wrong end of the jig when I need 'em. I think nestly's idea is worth a try. Meantime, I found these https://www.zoro.com/mechanix-wear-mechanics-gloves-m-blackbrown-pr-cg27-75-009/i/G5175737 The price is right, and I think these gloves might meet my needs.

Thanks for all this ideas guys.


----------



## bseltzer

Quick update: 

Turns out this Zoro.com vendor has a physical store not too far from me, and they had the gloves referenced above in stock. So I drove down there today and picked up a pair. They look to be perfect for the protection I need without restricting manual dexterity. The leather's good quality, and the stitching looks solid. As for the dexterity issue, I'm typing this with the gloves on, no problem. It's too bloody hot here to go out to the garage and put together a practice piece, but I have few doubts the gloves will work fine.

Anyone considering trying the same option should, however, be aware that the sizing on these things run a bit small. Your best bet might to be to go one size larger than normal.


----------



## valbo

automan26 said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrei9rfndv35rr/El-Cheap-O 3.1.ppsx?dl=0
> 
> Let's see if this works. I have my PowerPoint 2013 version uploaded to Dropbox.
> 
> This is how I build the jig and the string building instructions are what has proven to work for me. Some will disagree with some of the things contained in this presentation. I welcome comments. I know this might open a can of worms, but here goes....
> 
> I just checked its performance through DropBox and none of the links work, which is one of the best features of this PowerPoint. The whole idea was to make this a tutorial that could be navigated through so information could be accessed easily. Anyway, for what it's worth here it is. I think you are going to have to go through the entire 96 slide program to view it all, but what the heck...here it is.
> 
> At least it will have working links when I include the DVD as part of the purchase, if and when, I start offering and El-Cheap-O or two once in a while on EBay.
> 
> Hints and comments are welcome.
> 
> Automan


Great work Automan. Thank you. 
I have exported the pp file to pdf with only 1.8 MB in size:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/44ost4fhmlv4cl7/El-Cheap-O 3.pdf?dl=0


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## automan26

valbo said:


> Great work Automan. Thank you.
> I have exported the pp file to pdf with only 1.8 MB in size:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/44ost4fhmlv4cl7/El-Cheap-O 3.pdf?dl=0
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That will be great for someone who would like to download it to a phone so as to have it as a handy reference when building the El-Cheap-O out in their shop. I have had some feedback on the PowerPoint lately and have made a few minor revisions that I will be posting up in a couple weeks.

Automan


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## skynight

automan26 said:


> That will be great for someone who would like to download it to a phone so as to have it as a handy reference when building the El-Cheap-O out in their shop. I have had some feedback on the PowerPoint lately and have made a few minor revisions that I will be posting up in a couple weeks.
> 
> Automan


That was a lot of work and turned out awesome. Very nice.


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## poetic

Well guys. After a couple months of trying to get at it, here it is. My first practice string at 20". 3rd attempt. Lol. First time it popped off the post. Did not know why. 2nd attempt I seen riding up the post slowly. So I took the jig off and lowered the eye screw. Now it is ever so slightly moving up. But keeping an eye on it. I will move the eye screw down more again after the 2 hour stretch prossess. 

The first string was a pin stripe. Pain in the *****. Sticking to solid and 2 color string for now. But I have a single color on it right now. One end was a tag loop. And the other I didn't know what to do. Till I remember how automan did his split cable on the dropbox. So that is what I did. Made a 18" length string and brought it behind the post. Looped it thou the closed end and started serving. It'll get better with time. I hope. Lol.











Also stoked about getting my order in the mail today. Woot...













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## automan26

Awesome!!!!! I love it. That orange jig found a good home. You are on your way bud.

Automan


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## 138104

poetic said:


> Well guys. After a couple months of trying to get at it, here it is. My first practice string at 20". 3rd attempt. Lol. First time it popped off the post. Did not know why. 2nd attempt I seen riding up the post slowly. So I took the jig off and lowered the eye screw. Now it is ever so slightly moving up. But keeping an eye on it. I will move the eye screw down more again after the 2 hour stretch prossess.
> 
> The first string was a pin stripe. Pain in the *****. Sticking to solid and 2 color string for now. But I have a single color on it right now. One end was a tag loop. And the other I didn't know what to do. Till I remember how automan did his split cable on the dropbox. So that is what I did. Made a 18" length string and brought it behind the post. Looped it thou the closed end and started serving. It'll get better with time. I hope. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also stoked about getting my order in the mail today. Woot...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Nice job! I'd be happy to field test a set of flo orange for you. 😉


----------



## poetic

Well got it served up this morning. I came in a 1/32th under 20" not to bad I think. The loops turned a little black from the serving stuff getting on my fingers and in trundle on the loops. But at the end the nuts that hold the jig on the unistrut kept knocking into my Bearpaw jig. Just remember that if your building a new. Might want to go with the tall boy. Speaking of. Auto is there a way to turn it into a tall boy? But Gere a couple more pics. Going to put another string on. Flo Orange and Electric Red. See how it looks. Thanks guys.









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## Memmax

poetic said:


> Well got it served up this morning. I came in a 1/32th under 20" not to bad I think. The loops turned a little black from the serving stuff getting on my fingers and in trundle on the loops. But at the end the nuts that hold the jig on the unistrut kept knocking into my Bearpaw jig. Just remember that if your building a new. Might want to go with the tall boy. Speaking of. Auto is there a way to turn it into a tall boy? But Gere a couple more pics. Going to put another string on. Flo Orange and Electric Red. See how it looks. Thanks guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Go back a couple a pages in this thread. Automan posted a link to DropBox that has the full set of instructions, including tall boy.

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## poetic

Memmax said:


> Go back a couple a pages in this thread. Automan posted a link to DropBox that has the full set of instructions, including tall boy.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yeah. But I got a normal one from him. And was wondering if there is a way to make it a tall boy.

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## Memmax

valbo said:


> Great work Automan. Thank you.
> I have exported the pp file to pdf with only 1.8 MB in size:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/44ost4fhmlv4cl7/El-Cheap-O 3.pdf?dl=0
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look there. It'll be somewhere near slide 30.


poetic said:


> Yeah. But I got a normal one from him. And was wondering if there is a way to make it a tall boy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



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## automan26

Poetic, 
There is an ultra simple fix to your situation with the Bearpaw. You can simply move the hold-down bolt back one hole and everything will work fine. All the force on that side of the jig head is in the downward direction, so all that hold-down does is provide clamping force; there is almost no stress on it at all. I just went to my shop and made this modification, then served a string and there was comfortable clearance for the Bearpaw to operate perfectly.

ThanX for the input; I am going to add it to the PowerPoint update.

Automan


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## shinobi3

You could also try the spigarelli ( I think that's how it's spelled... It's a great little server 


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## caspian

the spig is quite good - the compression mechanism is much more stable than the bearpaw. I keep one for doing crossbow centre servings because the slot takes .036" thread without problems.

I find it way too light for regular use, though.


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## automan26

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vem2zoc986wcn0m/El-Cheap-O 3.2.ppsx?dl=0

The PowerPoint was (and still is) in need of a tuneup. I made a number of changes, added some material and worked on the grammar. Here is the link to the upgraded version. PLEASE...If you find any information that is unclear or incorrect, let me know. I want this to be an accurate tool for those just starting out. Hopefully it will inspire them to read through this entire thread.

Automan


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## Memmax

Jig is built and currently stretching an old string. 

Question.

Best place to get string and serving.

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## shinobi3

Deezlin for Bcy... And I think BAP has fury


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## Sinister01

this^^^ also ray knight for brownell


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## Bownut400

I have most fury in stock. Visit my web site to order. I really meant to post I reworked my post setting spread sheet to include 3 strings and added a couple extra copy pages for different material. if your interested email me at [email protected]
Free


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## nestly

Memmax said:


> Best place to get string and serving.


I have several places pretty close when I get in a bind, (Lancaster, Kinseys Outdoor, BowhuntersSuperstore) but when I plan ahead, I get my raw materials from 60X Bowstrings Good prices and free shipping.


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## michaelgentry87

^^^this

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## Jan Enthoven

String and cable set I made for my wife for her backup bow for the world archery field worldchampionships. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## Memmax

This might be a stupid question, but here it goes anyway.

Can you use two different materials on the same string?


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## jwscott

Memmax said:


> This might be a stupid question, but here it goes anyway.
> 
> Can you use two different materials on the same string?


No.. I wouldn't mix materials on the same string. Materials have different diameters & stretch differently.


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## automan26

Jan Enthoven said:


> String and cable set I made for my wife for her backup bow for the world archery field worldchampionships.
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


Those threads really make that bow look sweet. Great job. Your wife's backup bow is nicer than my primary..I'm jealous. LOL

AUTOMAN


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## poetic

what do you guys use for served loops, and end serving? i remember Huntin, saying but i cant find the post. strings, buss, cables, but center serving use powergrip .018 or 62xs is .021 that i remember for center serving. but what about ends, and loops. i got 40#china fishing line. but only in black. wont like the black on the end loops. so i was thinking of getting a spool of white and only use it for served loops. but dont know what stuff though.. and stay with the fishing line for end servings....


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## Purka

20lb. Chinese Spectra does a nice loop.


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## caspian

yeah, 20 or 30lb spectra works really well. goes on tight, no separation, pulls through a backserve to tighten down without feeling like it's going to break off.


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## poetic

caspian said:


> yeah, 20 or 30lb spectra works really well. goes on tight, no separation, pulls through a backserve to tighten down without feeling like it's going to break off.





Purka said:


> 20lb. Chinese Spectra does a nice loop.


So 20# fishing line will work for end loops. And stick with my 40# end servings?

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## Purka

poetic said:


> So 20# fishing line will work for end loops. And stick with my 40# end servings?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Yep.


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## cmwise

Great info.


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## Huntinsker

Jan Enthoven said:


> String and cable set I made for my wife for her backup bow for the world archery field worldchampionships.
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


Wow very cool! I don't know why I never put it together from your name but I've watched your wife shoot quite a bit on the Pro Archery Series videos. It's really cool to think that this thread may actually have helped her compete at such a high level. Good luck to you and her. I'll be looking for your threads on her bow in the next video!


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## ThomasB001

So I have been following this thread for some time. Here are some progress images of my take on the string jig. Still a work in progress, but pretty close to making my first set of strings. 
I am also planning on adding a bow press and drawboard to the same jig. 

Thanks for all the great ideas and advice on this topic. 


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## jdh0368

Great guide Thank you.


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## Huntinsker

ThomasB001 said:


> So I have been following this thread for some time. Here are some progress images of my take on the string jig. Still a work in progress, but pretty close to making my first set of strings.
> I am also planning on adding a bow press and drawboard to the same jig.
> 
> Thanks for all the great ideas and advice on this topic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk


Looks pretty cool but I wonder how well the square tubing will hold up to the stress of stretching a string at 300+ pounds. I think you may run into quite a bit of jig flex. If you can prevent that, I think you've got a good looking jig.


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## ThomasB001

Thanks Huntinsker.

I have cranked it up to 500# as a test, and did not have any measurable flex. That was just with a shorter section. 
I do have an option of shimming under the uprights to compensate for the flex if it becomes a problem over longer distances. 

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## lunghit

Anyone with experience building crossbow strings I have a few questions. Other then string material and strand count is there any difference in the build process? Also I know serving material diameter size will be different but does anyone know what those sizes are? Due to an arm injury I will be shooting a crossbow this season and I would like to build my own string. I just want to make sure I build it correctly. thanks in advance.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Anyone with experience building crossbow strings I have a few questions. Other then string material and strand count is there any difference in the build process? Also I know serving material diameter size will be different but does anyone know what those sizes are? Due to an arm injury I will be shooting a crossbow this season and I would like to build my own string. I just want to make sure I build it correctly. thanks in advance.


Check these out. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showt...1072674291&highlight=ten point#post1072674291 

The process is the same pretty much. Follow this link to open Ten Point's general owners manual and page 18 has the materials and strand counts that Ten Point uses on all of their strings. http://www.tenpointcrossbows.com/downloads/10/2016-general-crossbow-owners-manual/


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## Memmax

Am I correct the 0.4mm converts to 0.16? And if so how many strands to make the string thick enough for the nock?

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## Huntinsker

Memmax said:


> Am I correct the 0.4mm converts to 0.16? And if so how many strands to make the string thick enough for the nock?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


0.4mm = .01575". I'm not sure what you're asking about. An arrow nock or a nock on a longbow/recurve? If it's an arrow nock, what nock? What string material are you asking about? 30 strands of Fury would equal about 16 strands of D97 so it's helpful to know what material you're asking about, not that those are the only 2 materials but that was an extreme example of the range of strand sizes. What serving are you going to use and what diameter? That also plays a big part in the finished diameter of a string.


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## Memmax

Huntinsker said:


> 0.4mm = .01575". I'm not sure what you're asking about. An arrow nock or a nock on a longbow/recurve? If it's an arrow nock, what nock? What string material are you asking about? 30 strands of Fury would equal about 16 strands of D97 so it's helpful to know what material you're asking about, not that those are the only 2 materials but that was an extreme example of the range of strand sizes. What serving are you going to use and what diameter? That also plays a big part in the finished diameter of a string.


I'm going to be building strings for a compound using 452x. The serving is 60# 0.4mm braided Dymena fishing line.

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## Huntinsker

Memmax said:


> I'm going to be building strings for a compound using 452x. The serving is 60# 0.4mm braided Dymena fishing line.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


You using the .4mm line for center serving? If so it may be a little small for many nocks. Just depends on which one you're using to determine what strand count you'll need. I like 22 strands for strings using 452x. 22 of 452x and .018 powergrip or .021 62xs works well for an average nock fit.


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## Memmax

Thanks for the help.

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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Check these out. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showt...1072674291&highlight=ten point#post1072674291
> 
> The process is the same pretty much. Follow this link to open Ten Point's general owners manual and page 18 has the materials and strand counts that Ten Point uses on all of their strings. http://www.tenpointcrossbows.com/downloads/10/2016-general-crossbow-owners-manual/


Thank you for the info. After building strings for about 3 years shooting a bow (or crossbow) with stock strings just does not feel right haha.


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## poetic

How many pounds you guys are setting on your serving jigs? I pulled down on my Bearpaw and was going to about 6.8 pounds. What about everyone else. Is there a recamended poundage? 

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## nestly

poetic said:


> How many pounds you guys are setting on your serving jigs? I pulled down on my Bearpaw and was going to about 6.8 pounds. What about everyone else. Is there a recamended poundage?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I'm currently using 10 lbs for endservings and 11 lbs for center servings....and I recheck the tension every session because tension changes as the spool gets emptier.

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## automan26

College football is nearly upon us so I decided to get my Bowtech in the mood. Look at my Avatar...Did I hit it with this color combo?

Automan


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## tered

I have a Feed Bear bow string says 88 and buss cable of 36? Anyone confirm this? Also ata and brace hight?


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## michaelgentry87

tered said:


> I have a Feed Bear bow string says 88 and buss cable of 36? Anyone confirm this? Also ata and brace hight?


Which Fred bear bow ?


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## michaelgentry87

automan26 said:


> College football is nearly upon us so I decided to get my Bowtech in the mood. Look at my Avatar...Did I hit it with this color combo?
> 
> Automan


Looks good !!!

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## tered

I have no numbers other then a sn.


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## lunghit

Is there a model name on the bow? Whats it say right under the grip?


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## tered

I will look under the grip tonight.


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## Jan Enthoven

tered said:


> I have no numbers other then a sn.


Did you try searching the attn: string makers thread? 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## jonw

Jan Enthoven said:


> Did you try searching the attn: string makers thread?
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


This looks like the buckmaster


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## jwscott

it is a Bear GT 32


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## RatherBArchery

Back when I had a Bear TRX they used to put a limb sticker with all the string/cable lengths on them. Should be correct if its there.


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## postman99

awesome thanks


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## Huntinsker

tered said:


> I will look under the grip tonight.


If you have the bow, you have the lengths. Tune the bow making sure it's getting max poundage and the DL is close to what you want. Then measure the lengths and build to that.


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## mccoppinb

Do yall leave the spring on your strut nuts?


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## Memmax

mccoppinb said:


> Do yall leave the spring on your strut nuts?


I didn't.

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## mccoppinb

Memmax said:


> I didn't.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Does it slide smooth even after hitting the bolt heads you used to mount the uni strut?


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## automan26

That spring only gets in the way. Break them off, but be careful; I once bit a hunk out of my finger breaking one off. Look at the fabrication section of my PowerPoint. The link is now part of my signature.

Automan


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## Memmax

mccoppinb said:


> Does it slide smooth even after hitting the bolt heads you used to mount the uni strut?


Couldn't say. I use clamps to secure it to my bench.

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## poetic

Mineral oil or baby oil. How much, and how do you apply? Thanks.

My string I did today. .008 spectra for loops and 40# fishing line for end serving. My end serving where it closes the loops is sloppy. I need to work on that. amd my bearpaw seemed to get the beginning black/dirty looking... but it should get me through bow season.









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## mccoppinb

I currently have a 4 post home made jig and need a string stretcher.

I only have the metal shown below could I possibly make the 2 post jig without the eye bolts and it still function fine? Or should I just make a string stretcher like the one below?


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## jonw

Anyone have a link to the Chinese braid fishing line used for serving and what # each size is


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## automan26

jonw said:


> Anyone have a link to the Chinese braid fishing line used for serving and what # each size is


Here is a link to the stuff I use. If you hunt around you can find a pic with several spools of various colors. I think it is the 7th item from the top. Open that item and you will be able to click around and find the string thickness in millimeters which you can easily convert to thousands of an inch.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...w=spectra+extreme+braid+fishing+line&_sacat=0

Automan


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## poetic

Mineral oil or baby oil. How much, and how do you apply? Thanks.

my before pic.











and My string I did today. .008 spectra for loops and 40# fishing line for end serving. My end serving where it closes the loops is getting a heck of a lot better. . but I may need to work on that some more. 











but please i would like to clear up my serving. Mineral oil or baby oil. How much, and how do you apply? Thanks.


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## deerbum

Looks good, I've used baby oil and believe it's just mineral oil with fragrance. I just squeeze out at bead onto the serving and rub it in, it will clear more as it soaks into the string over time. I made some clarifier with a readily available online dry fly floatant recipe and a bit of mineral oil that seems to work well. The floatant by itself dries chalky so I just continued to mix in a bit of mineral oil to the floatant, applied it to the serving, and checked the results until it cleared up. I have not purchased the clarifier but suspect this is the same thing based off of the descriptions and clues I've seen online.


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## deerbum

I have a question myself for converting 2 post settings to 3 or 4 post settings. Here's what I have, where post spread is measured center to center:
4 post setting = 2 post setting - post spread - .025"
3 post setting = 2 post setting - 1/2 post spread - 0.125"
Is this correct?


----------



## MsNipeR

Thanks to huntinsker i got made and installed my own produced set of strings and cables! measurements was spot on so tuning was pretty easy couple turns of controllcable everything was god so far no peep rotation! im really pleased thanks to all this info!!!


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## Huntinsker

MsNipeR said:


> Thanks to huntinsker i got made and installed my own produced set of strings and cables! measurements was spot on so tuning was pretty easy couple turns of controllcable everything was god so far no peep rotation! im really pleased thanks to all this info!!!


That's awesome! Glad you're strings are working out well. If you get time, we'd love to see a picture of your jig and your strings that you're making.


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## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> I have a question myself for converting 2 post settings to 3 or 4 post settings. Here's what I have, where post spread is measured center to center:
> 4 post setting = 2 post setting - post spread - .025"
> 3 post setting = 2 post setting - 1/2 post spread - 0.125"
> Is this correct?


Check out post #3115 on page 125 of this thread. nestly has put a really nice diagram up with the info that you're asking.


----------



## deerbum

Thanks Huntinsker, looking at the total layout length help me get a grasp of it. After thinking about this for a bit this is what I came up with and the fractions disappeared. I feel better now.:embara:

Total layout circumference=100 
Post spread= 12

2 post set layout circumference= (2 times the post set - 2 times post diameter) + post circumference(2 segments)
or 100=2X(post set) - 0.5 + 0.7854

4 post set layout circumference= (2 times the post set - 2 times post diameter) + 2 times the post spread + post circumference(4 segments)
or 100=2X(post set) - 0.5 + 24 + 0.7854

3 post set layout circumference= (2 times the post set - 2 times the post diameter) + post spread+ post circumference(3 segments)
or 100=2X(post set) - 0.5 + 12 + 0.7854


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## jhedelen

Just made mine! Works flawlessly!

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## Kyudo Novice

*Olympic Recurve strings... measurements, strand count, twists*
This is the best thread on AT by far and the one I return to whenever I visit AT

I'm wondering if anyone could provide string details for my 70" Olympic recurve? 
25 inch W&W AXT riser.
36 Lb Long Limbs, SF High Foam
McKinney pin nocks. 
8190F is my string material. 
I have a variety of Halo.

If i build one in 8125 or 8125G, what might my configuration be ? 

i hope you guys don't mind if i ask more recurve string questions. I mainly shoot compound.


----------



## MsNipeR

Huntinsker said:


> That's awesome! Glad you're strings are working out well. If you get time, we'd love to see a picture of your jig and your strings that you're making.










ill see if this Works!! have a Windows phone and computer and they actually dont understand eachother! im trying to uppload a Picture here but i have my doubts. it should be a Picture of my string. Picture of my jig ..i dont no...dissappeared somewhere inthe clouds i think! Wow it Works!!


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## timamc4

Ok, I have read through around 60 pages of this guide (it is awesome by the way) and I have made my jig. I made it out of 3/4 black iron pipe, reduced to 5/8 modeled after the one made by Steve Jo on page 12. Now for my question...My spring (a free valve spring from a mechanic shop) bottoms out at 250 lbs. Is this enough stretching power or do I need to find/order a larger more powerful spring?? Just wondering and thanks for the wonderful thread, I will try to post some pics of my jig soon!! Rick


----------



## timamc4

I also have another question, I have been making recurve flemish strings for a long time, but this is my first time on a compound string. As a complete beginner, would you recommend 452x or would you just jump in with both feet and recommend Fury or BCY X to start??


----------



## Huntinsker

Kyudo Novice said:


> *Olympic Recurve strings... measurements, strand count, twists*
> This is the best thread on AT by far and the one I return to whenever I visit AT
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone could provide string details for my 70" Olympic recurve?
> 25 inch W&W AXT riser.
> 36 Lb Long Limbs, SF High Foam
> McKinney pin nocks.
> 8190F is my string material.
> I have a variety of Halo.
> 
> If i build one in 8125 or 8125G, what might my configuration be ?
> 
> i hope you guys don't mind if i ask more recurve string questions. I mainly shoot compound.


Here's a great resource for endless recurve strings. https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/bowstring-dimensions.pdf

I do not build them the way they do. I twist them to length and then stretch and serve after stretching just like I do a compound string. Figure out what length you want your string to be at your brace height and then build to that length. 

Not sure on the strand count of 8190f but I'd imagine it would be about 10 more than what you'd use with 8125g since BCY recommends 18 with 8125 and 28-30 of 8190f.


----------



## Huntinsker

timamc4 said:


> Ok, I have read through around 60 pages of this guide (it is awesome by the way) and I have made my jig. I made it out of 3/4 black iron pipe, reduced to 5/8 modeled after the one made by Steve Jo on page 12. Now for my question...My spring (a free valve spring from a mechanic shop) bottoms out at 250 lbs. Is this enough stretching power or do I need to find/order a larger more powerful spring?? Just wondering and thanks for the wonderful thread, I will try to post some pics of my jig soon!! Rick


For me, 250 is a little light to serve with but if that's what you have, it's better than nothing.


----------



## poetic

timamc4 said:


> Ok, I have read through around 60 pages of this guide (it is awesome by the way) and I have made my jig. I made it out of 3/4 black iron pipe, reduced to 5/8 modeled after the one made by Steve Jo on page 12. Now for my question...My spring (a free valve spring from a mechanic shop) bottoms out at 250 lbs. Is this enough stretching power or do I need to find/order a larger more powerful spring?? Just wondering and thanks for the wonderful thread, I will try to post some pics of my jig soon!! Rick


these are the four pieces that you may need... they are the McMaster-carr parts that are needed. never been used. you can have them. just pay for shipping. and they are your's. just laying in a box on the bench. thats if you want them.


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## poetic

Timamc4 the parts are in the mail. Glad they can help, instead of just sitting around here. 

Well... I got my string on my bow. I tried to take some nice pics with the cell. But I couldn't. So had asked the wife do it. About 20 pictures she took. Lol. Until she said no more. 

I upgraded to the pronghorn string jig. But still doing the DYI strings. Sad part is ordered my FMJ'S last Wednesday. And called to see if they were on the way. and they forgot to ship them till I just called today. And opener is Saturday. So I might just go with the arrows I have now. 

But I am so stoked. These pictures does not do justice to how awesome they look.










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## Huntinsker

poetic said:


> Timamc4 the parts are in the mail. Glad they can help, instead of just sitting around here.
> 
> Well... I got my string on my bow. I tried to take some nice pics with the cell. But I couldn't. So had asked the wife do it. About 20 pictures she took. Lol. Until she said no more.
> 
> I upgraded to the pronghorn string jig. But still doing the DYI strings. Sad part is ordered my FMJ'S last Wednesday. And called to see if they were on the way. and they forgot to ship them till I just called today. And opener is Saturday. So I might just go with the arrows I have now.
> 
> But I am so stoked. These pictures does not do justice to how awesome they look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Look real good. Got nice and clear serving on them :thumbs_up


----------



## Kyudo Novice

*How to secure & hide tag ends for clear loops & end serving? *
When building 2 or 3 color string, how do you secure all the tags and keep them hidden wen using all clear serving? 

I've tried searching this thread, but couldn't find it.
thanks for any response.


----------



## poetic

Kyudo Novice said:


> *How to secure & hide tag ends for clear loops & end serving? *
> When building 2 or 3 color string, how do you secure all the tags and keep them hidden wen using all clear serving?
> 
> I've tried searching this thread, but couldn't find it.
> thanks for any response.


I serve my loops. Then wrap tag end 5 times. Then back wrap 5 more. Cut flush. Both sides of the served loop. And if i have a extra tag end(4 tags) i just cut flush also. With out wrapping. The first tag and loop serving would hold that 3rd and 4th tag end in place. But that is how I do it.

But I'm still a noob. And learning still.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## caspian

that's one of the reasons I don't use clear serving. I serve my loops and I extend the tags about 6" down the end serving for additional stability, clipping one tag out every 1/2" or so for a nice tapered finish.

Kyudo Novice, that font you are using transcends offensive.


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## poetic

Just made a pin stripe jig today at work. its not the best. But it sure does a heck of a job helping. A steel plate at 5" and a steel square tube 6.5". Welded them together and drilled a couple holes thru. Couple inches of all threads and bolted them in. And shrink tubing over the threads. Works like a charm.









Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Kyudo Novice said:


> *How to secure & hide tag ends for clear loops & end serving? *
> When building 2 or 3 color string, how do you secure all the tags and keep them hidden wen using all clear serving?
> 
> I've tried searching this thread, but couldn't find it.
> thanks for any response.


I do the same as I do when I finish my tag ends any other time I do tag end loops. What you'll see under the serving will be roughly 1/4-3/8" of a solid color going onto the loop. Whatever color I finish the loop with and bring the two sides together is what you'll see. You can also back serve each side onto it's own side rather than bring the loop together with the tag ends. That works well to. Some guys just wrap the tag ends through the middle of the bundle and clip them off flush. I tried that but didn't like it as much. It took me longer and didn't end up quite as clean for me.


----------



## deerbum

poetic said:


> Timamc4 the parts are in the mail. Glad they can help, instead of just sitting around here.
> 
> Well... I got my string on my bow. I tried to take some nice pics with the cell. But I couldn't. So had asked the wife do it. About 20 pictures she took. Lol. Until she said no more.
> 
> I upgraded to the pronghorn string jig. But still doing the DYI strings. Sad part is ordered my FMJ'S last Wednesday. And called to see if they were on the way. and they forgot to ship them till I just called today. And opener is Saturday. So I might just go with the arrows I have now.
> 
> But I am so stoked. These pictures does not do justice to how awesome they look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


They look good to me, nice bow too. An HD will be my next.


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## timamc4

Here is a pic of my jig that I built. I still see some modifications coming, but it is working pretty well. Thanks to all on here who have made this thread the best of AT. Also, here is a test string, only around 2 feet long, but long enough for me to get the bugs worked out of the system.



























Anyway, not too bad for my second attempt, the first, I didn't get the strings separated correctly and the pinstripe came out a bit off. I still need to work on my end loops, and I just threw on a quick little bit of serving to see what that was like on the jig as well. So far I am more than pleased!! Thanks again everyone!!!! Rick


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## timamc4

Also, a quick thank you to Poetic, the parts helped out so much!!! Thank you!!!


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## poetic

timamc4 said:


> Also, a quick thank you to Poetic, the parts helped out so much!!! Thank you!!!


No problem bud. It looks good....  

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## caspian

serving tensioner question for everyone...

I decided to make myself a calibration weight today to use to set serving jigs, having had a few adventures with peep rotation in long solocam strings. got hold of a tin box which I have fitted with an eye hook for dead weight lifting with the jig, and a bunch of sinkers to fill it with before I solder it closed.

however, when I set my Beiter jig for what I consider medium-tight tension, and weight the tin so it's *just* starting to pull material off the jig, it's only about 3lb at most! I was expecting to be used the commonly mentioned "about 6lb" but I don't think I've ever put a serving on that tight. at that tension I'd be manually dragging the jig around the string and strangling the thing to death.

I also just found my digital scales and did a slow-pull test feeding about 12" of serving off over 6 seconds or so, and got 2.5lb peak recorded tension.

has anyone actually done a similar weight check before?


----------



## Huntinsker

I did once or twice. Just go by feel now. Checking with a scale each time is tedious. I get good results going by feel so I don't see a reason to change. You definitely should be able to get more out of your Beiter than 2.5lbs unless you're routing the material through it incorrectly.


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## nestly

caspian said:


> has anyone actually done a similar weight check before?


Always!
I hook my serving jig to a digital scale EVERYTIME before I do a end or center serving because the tension changes as the spool gets emptier. I use 9-10 pounds for end servings, 10-11 pounds for Center servings.
Before I had a digital scale, I used a hook on a chair which weighed about 10 pounds and adjusted the jig tension until it was just tight enough to lift the chair completely off the ground.


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## caspian

Huntinsker said:


> You definitely should be able to get more out of your Beiter than 2.5lbs unless you're routing the material through it incorrectly.


I can get heaps more out of it. that's the point of the exercise, to establish a repeatable means of gauging the tension required which is well below maximum attainable.


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## lunghit

I'm back! Tore my bicep tendon in April and thought I was out for this hunting season. Well therapy came along and I am healing well so I bought an inexpensive bow just to get me in the woods this season. It's a 2012 Hoyt Rampage XT 50 pounds. I have it backed down to 40 pounds so I will be limited to 20 yard shots with a cut on contact head this year. I will have to keep the bow light so that means only sight and rest will be on it. I just made this string set using white/clear .014 Halo for the cables and 3D for the string.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> I'm back! Tore my bicep tendon in April and thought I was out for this hunting season. Well therapy came along and I am healing well so I bought an inexpensive bow just to get me in the woods this season. It's a 2012 Hoyt Rampage XT 50 pounds. I have it backed down to 40 pounds so I will be limited to 20 yard shots with a cut on contact head this year. I just made this string set using white/clear .014 Halo for the cables and 3D for the string.


Good for you buddy. Don't overdue it just to get in the woods. Nothing worse than setting yourself back in rehab. I'm nursing a sore shoulder now and haven't shot my bow in over 2 weeks trying to heal up so I can hunt/shoot all winter. Only bad thing is I have to draw bows back at work which I'm trying to avoid if I can help it. 

Threads look great on that bow too!


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Good for you buddy. Don't overdue it just to get in the woods. Nothing worse than setting yourself back in rehab. I'm nursing a sore shoulder now and haven't shot my bow in over 2 weeks trying to heal up so I can hunt/shoot all winter. Only bad thing is I have to draw bows back at work which I'm trying to avoid if I can help it.
> 
> Threads look great on that bow too!


Thanks. Even though I am only 38, getting old sucks lol. Its been 7 months since I shot a bow and made a string set so I am looking forward to starting it all again. I bought a crossbow over the summer just to shoot some arrows and I have to admit I am really looking forward to hunting with it. It's an amazing weapon but will never replace my compound. Good luck with your shoulder and this coming season!


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## skynight

caspian said:


> I can get heaps more out of it. that's the point of the exercise, to establish a repeatable means of gauging the tension required which is well below maximum attainable.


I use the method deezlin describes in the little Jon video. 
I crank the tension up until the jig starts to bounce back at me after wrapping. If you play with it you'll see what I mean.


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## lunghit

skynight said:


> I use the method deezlin describes in the little Jon video.
> I crank the tension up until the jig starts to bounce back at me after wrapping. If you play with it you'll see what I mean.


This is what I do. Cables I tighten up real good and use lots of tension. String I do exactly as described here with the "bounce back" method.


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## caspian

I have that video and have watched it. he's using very light jigs compared to something like a Beiter, the bounce-back occurs at considerably less than 6lb tension.


----------



## skynight

caspian said:


> I have that video and have watched it. he's using very light jigs compared to something like a Beiter, the bounce-back occurs at considerably less than 6lb tension.


I'm using a beiter profi, not the heavy version. Works for me.


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## timamc4

I use a scale to check my serving jigs...what is the "bounce method"? It sounds interesting...


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## disturbed13

im going to be honest, i have NOT read all 188 pages - its just been alot of skimming as i got bored at work
with that out of the way this thread is amaxing!
now on to my question and my perspective

i read some where that someone was concerned about the string untwisting
my thought on that is that the strings axis is along that of the pin, and if it was strong enough to untwist itself it would bend the pin instead of spinnign a 5/8" all thread rod
my ony thought that would enable the string to untwist itself would be the handles being above the 5/8" all thread rod

for example if you have a baseball bat and you hold the bat in one hand with your hand at the very bottom of the grip - then hold that right out in front of you
it will be rather annoying to try and keep it upright - you cant relax
if you flip it 180 and try again (with all of the weight of the bat below your fist) it will be a cake walk and there wont be any 'squirrly' motion

does anyone have a different point of view? and an example of the thought process?
thanks


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## Huntinsker

disturbed13 said:


> im going to be honest, i have NOT read all 188 pages - its just been alot of skimming as i got bored at work
> with that out of the way this thread is amaxing!
> now on to my question and my perspective
> 
> i read some where that someone was concerned about the string untwisting
> my thought on that is that the strings axis is along that of the pin, and if it was strong enough to untwist itself it would bend the pin instead of spinnign a 5/8" all thread rod
> my ony thought that would enable the string to untwist itself would be the handles being above the 5/8" all thread rod
> 
> for example if you have a baseball bat and you hold the bat in one hand with your hand at the very bottom of the grip - then hold that right out in front of you
> it will be rather annoying to try and keep it upright - you cant relax
> if you flip it 180 and try again (with all of the weight of the bat below your fist) it will be a cake walk and there wont be any 'squirrly' motion
> 
> does anyone have a different point of view? and an example of the thought process?
> thanks


I kind of remember that conversation from a long time ago in the thread and will add that even with the thrust bearings in place, there's enough friction to hold the posts still and it won't let the string untwist. Even if you had the string on hooks so the point of pull would be at the center of the threaded rod, there's not enough energy coiled up in the string to untwist anything. If you get to that point, you've way over twisted.


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## disturbed13

Huntinsker said:


> I kind of remember that conversation from a long time ago in the thread and will add that even with the thrust bearings in place, there's enough friction to hold the posts still and it won't let the string untwist. Even if you had the string on hooks so the point of pull would be at the center of the threaded rod, there's not enough energy coiled up in the string to untwist anything. If you get to that point, you've way over twisted.


thats what i thought, thanks


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> I kind of remember that conversation from a long time ago in the thread and will add that even with the thrust bearings in place, there's enough friction to hold the posts still and it won't let the string untwist. Even if you had the string on hooks so the point of pull would be at the center of the threaded rod, there's not enough energy coiled up in the string to untwist anything. If you get to that point, you've way over twisted.


Actually, if the threaded rods are well aligned with each other (very little flex) there's virtually no friction to resist the rotational force, and it will spin on the thrust bearings...mine does, although granted, I took great effort to make sure mine jig was as flex free and well aligned as possible

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


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## b0w_bender

nestly said:


> Actually, if the threaded rods are well aligned with each other (very little flex) there's virtually no friction to resist the rotational force, and it will spin on the thrust bearings...mine does, although granted, I took great effort to make sure mine jig was as flex free and well aligned as possible
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


Mine spins easily too. If I didn't have a pin in it to hold it in place after twisting it would unwind rather rapidly.


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## 2X_LUNG

Air stretchers are in place. Lol

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Nice! Are you going to start selling strings? Your sets always look great.


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## 2X_LUNG

Perry24 said:


> Nice! Are you going to start selling strings? Your sets always look great.


Thanks! Yep, have been for a while now

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## caspian

timamc4 said:


> I use a scale to check my serving jigs...what is the "bounce method"? It sounds interesting...


it means gauging the drag tension of the jig by the fall under gravity as the jig comes over the top of the string and drops down. depending on drag tension and jig mass, as the jig passes the halfway-down point, gravity has progressively less effect and the jig will "bounce" back a little, powered by the shaft torque that has been imparted into the string by serving tension.


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## timamc4

Thanks for the reply...I figured it was something like that, just didn't know exactly what it was...thanks again!!


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## timamc4

I have now read around 110 pages of this thread...I have seen a lot about Chinese braided fishing line as serving...now that it has been used a couple of years, how did it hold up? Also, if people are still using it, what braid 4 or 8, and what pound test did you decide upon for the various applications...ie roller guards, end servings, center servings...and how do the various colors hold up? Right now I use .014 Halo and also have some .021 laying around but don't remember the type maybe 3d...I would like to get some other colors without breaking the bank...
thanks


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## automan26

timamc4 said:


> I have now read around 110 pages of this thread...I have seen a lot about Chinese braided fishing line as serving...now that it has been used a couple of years, how did it hold up? Also, if people are still using it, what braid 4 or 8, and what pound test did you decide upon for the various applications...ie roller guards, end servings, center servings...and how do the various colors hold up? Right now I use .014 Halo and also have some .021 laying around but don't remember the type maybe 3d...I would like to get some other colors without breaking the bank...
> thanks


http://www.ebay.com/itm/500m-6-100L...hash=item2ecb46ef50:m:mJ1fhrxJrHQDWNOv4ZE4h3Q

This is what I have been using and I have never had a problem. I like the 50# material quite well. I have used black and silver and those colors look great. I can't give you any info about the other colors. I have used it for center serving and I think it worked OK, others have used it and gone away from using it for the centers. I drifted away from using it for center serving, but I really have no good reason for why I did so.

Automan


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## lunghit

2X_LUNG said:


> Air stretchers are in place. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Very nice!!


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## caspian

automan26 said:


> This is what I have been using and I have never had a problem. I like the 50# material quite well. I have used black and silver and those colors look great. I can't give you any info about the other colors. I have used it for center serving and I think it worked OK, others have used it and gone away from using it for the centers. I drifted away from using it for center serving, but I really have no good reason for why I did so.


I've used a lot of that in various sizes. mostly black and red 30lb, 50lb makes good recurve strings. I prefer something grippier for centre serving because I found loops tended to slip a little on the very slick serving, so I use Diamondback.

no complaints with wear on cam tracks or roller guards.

I am just about the start on several spools of 8 strand material which is hopefully better again. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-8-stran...LB-Dyneema-Braided-Fishing-Line-/351079574239


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## timamc4

Ok, I made my first string for my target bow, it came out ok, but it has a case of the bumps. Now from reading this thread, I know that I must have dewaxed the bundles too hard or too much. So, what happens if you don't dewax the bundles at all, build the string and twist, then burnish and get rid of the wax on the outside while burnishing...will that make a quality string without bumps or do I still need to dewax the bundles at least some...HELP!!! Oh yeah, I'm using 452X, 22 strand string...


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## timamc4

Ok, one more wax question...when serving, I got quite a bit of wax from my string even though I had de-waxed each bundle and burnished it once it was twisted and stretched...should I be getting wax build up on my winder or am I doing something wrong???


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## automan26

It's not uncommon to get a little wax on your server even though you stripped the bundles prior to serving. You will never strip off all the wax. Some serving materials also have a bit of wax and often that may be what you are seeing on your winder.

Automan


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## timamc4

I am pretty sure it was the flo orange 452x that was the culprit...I think I answered my first question though...you need to get rid of the wax on the bundles even if it means getting a few bumps...I thought I had done a pretty good job, my string is Flo Orange, Black pin, and Natural (off white)...un-served and burnished it was beautiful...I had to take a out a few twists to get it to the correct length...4 or 5 I think...anyway, put it back to tension and started serving and I got quite a bit of orange wax...I either didn't get it as well as I thought, or there is a lot more wax on the orange...oh well, the string still looks great in the unserved portions and under the white halo...it looks pretty dingy...live and learn...


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## caspian

on the advice from here I no longer dewax before twisting. I also now only tension to 100lbs for 10 minutes after layup to equalise tension, then do my served loops, bring to about 150lb, twist, then bring to 300lb until the string fully stabilises and stops elongating before serving.

this has almost entirely eliminated bumps for me.

I still lay up by hand with care as before, the only additional thing I do is to try to step down from full tension to fully rested over the space of a few hours. I am not building for production volumes so the additional time makes no difference for me.

the biggest difference can be seen in really long solocam strings which seem to highlight any deficiencies in method or execution. if you can get that right then 3-piece sets are a doddle.


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## 2X_LUNG

Here is my finished product. Love it









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## caspian

that is dead set awesome. :thumbs_up:


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## Sandskipper

2X_LUNG said:


> Here is my finished product. Love it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


You sir are 6 kinds of not messing around!
Sweet setup!


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## 2X_LUNG

Lol. Thanks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## timamc4

First of all, Thanks to everyone here!!! I have learned so much and now have my first set of strings and cables on my CSS!!! It looks and shoots great!!! Thanks again...Here are some pics!!!


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## b0w_bender

2X_LUNG said:


> Lol. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I of course love this thread but X2_lung you should create a new thread to show everyone how you built that stretcher and provide the specs and some more detail about how you built the other end too. That is a top notch quality setup you have right there. Given the small amount of strings I build I would likely never build one but I would love to see some detail on how you did yours.


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## 2X_LUNG

b0w_bender said:


> I of course love this thread but X2_lung you should create a new thread to show everyone how you built that stretcher and provide the specs and some more detail about how you built the other end too. That is a top notch quality setup you have right there. Given the small amount of strings I build I would likely never build one but I would love to see some detail on how you did yours.


Absolutely. I'll get a parts list and do that!! Thanks for the feedback!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Toadthumper

Awesome!! Looking forward to it!! I would be very happy with just one of those stretcher setups!


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## Sandskipper

Toadthumper said:


> Awesome!! Looking forward to it!! I would be very happy with just one of those stretcher setups!


I was thinking exactly the same thing! Looking forward to looking these parts over.


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## nuthinbutnock

2X_LUNG said:


> Here is my finished product. Love it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I don't know if it's already in the thread but would you mind sharing your plans/details of this build? I really like it. Nice job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

2X_LUNG said:


> Absolutely. I'll get a parts list and do that!! Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I'll be looking for that! Hope to have something like that at some point.


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## Jan Enthoven

automan26 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/500m-6-100L...hash=item2ecb46ef50:m:mJ1fhrxJrHQDWNOv4ZE4h3Q
> 
> This is what I have been using and I have never had a problem. I like the 50# material quite well. I have used black and silver and those colors look great. I can't give you any info about the other colors. I have used it for center serving and I think it worked OK, others have used it and gone away from using it for the centers. I drifted away from using it for center serving, but I really have no good reason for why I did so.
> 
> Automan


I have a question for you, and I would appreciate your input. Do you use the spool that it comes on? And if not how do you get it on the smaller spools that serving thread comes on? 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## automan26

I transfer the fishing line to an old used spool using 1/4" X 20 carriage bolts, fender washers and a drill. I mount the assembly on my Unistrut using Unistrut hardware. The wing nuts and plastic washers help me set the drag on the fishing line spool so that it transfers nice and tight on my other spool. I think these pics will answer most of your questions, but if not, let me know.

Automan


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## Jan Enthoven

automan26 said:


> I transfer the fishing line to an old used spool using 1/4" X 20 carriage bolts, fender washers and a drill. I mount the assembly on my Unistrut using Unistrut hardware. The wing nuts and plastic washers help me set the drag on the fishing line spool so that it transfers nice and tight on my other spool. I think these pics will answer most of your questions, but if not, let me know.
> 
> Automan


Thanks, that is a simple and elegant solution. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn A0001 met Tapatalk


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## Fiferguy

Laid out a new string last night. Going to try something a little different this time. BCY-X Flo. Green, Flo. Purple, Purple pinstripe.


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## squid013

Very nice. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## squid013

My latest went on a friend's darton vapor










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## poetic

About to make a set for switchback xt. Would #40 china line work for idler wheel and buss cables to go through to roller guard work? I wanna keep it all black serving, but have no #20 black china line., but I do have #40 and #20 white china line. So would the #40 china line work on a switchback xt roller guard???? 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## automan26

I just built a set of threads for a Mathews legacy using 32 strands of Fury and 60# Chinese for the cable and it worked fine. I was afraid I might be a bit too thick, but it slipped into the rollers and over the idler nicely. Your 40# should work fine.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

poetic said:


> About to make a set for switchback xt. Would #40 china line work for idler wheel and buss cables to go through to roller guard work? I wanna keep it all black serving, but have no #20 black china line., but I do have #40 and #20 white china line. So would the #40 china line work on a switchback xt roller guard????
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


You'll be just fine. They use a lot of 3d on their rollers so your #40 should be good to go.


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## poetic

Huntinsker said:


> You'll be just fine. They use a lot of 3d on their rollers so your #40 should be good to go.


Thank you

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## poetic

automan26 said:


> I just built a set of threads for a Mathews legacy using 32 strands of Fury and 60# Chinese for the cable and it worked fine. I was afraid I might be a bit too thick, but it slipped into the rollers and over the idler nicely. Your 40# should work fine.
> 
> Automan


thank you.


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## Kyudo Novice

*How to secure multiple tag ends for a served loop?*
If doing a three color or even more color string where you end up with 2 pairs or even 3 pairs of tag ends at one end of the string. Can someone show me and explain how to secure all these ends in preparation of serving over them?

I am really enjoying this new facet of archery. String making has made the sport even more fun.


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## nestly

Kyudo Novice said:


> *How to secure multiple tag ends for a served loop?*
> If doing a three color or even more color string where you end up with 2 pairs or even 3 pairs of tag ends at one end of the string. Can someone show me and explain how to secure all these ends in preparation of serving over them?


In the case of Tag end servings, you weave them through the bundle after you've completed the tag end serving.
In the case of End loop servings, you weave them through the bundle after you've completed wrapping the end loop serving.
In both cases, the "weaved" tag ends are captured and held in place when you wrap over them with the end serving.

Weaving to finish the tag ends is demonstrated in this video by 2X_Lung at 11-13 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


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## Sandskipper

Great "how to" video! This is enough to make someone like myself who is interested but apprehensive about string making to get off the fence and give it a whirl. Making a jig and trying my hand at string making is going to be my next project. Thanks for the post.


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## automan26

I can tell already that you are going to get yourself sooo addicted. It happens to nearly everyone, so get ready.

Automan


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## timamc4

Ok, 3 more questions...

1. I used white halo .014 serving on a solo cam bow string. The old string had speed balls (2 brass nock points in shrink tubing) on the old serving near idler wheel. So, I went to install the speed balls in the same place on the new string and used a hair dryer to shrink the tubing...well the Halo became white instead of clear all around the speed balls ...did I use too much heat or is this normal...I can't tell if the serving is loose or not and I am also worried about any string damage??? Just wondering what you all think...

2. Speaking of that white Halo...mine comes out somewhat dingy and dull...not completely clear...I am using very high tension...around 15-17lbs...I am afraid to go higher...I see people talking about clarifier and have heard everything from mineral spirits to wd 40...You can see the colors through my servings...it is just not as clear as I would like...am I missing something???

3. I see just about everyone seems to use BCY X or Fury now...I am still using 452X...I am going to be making strings for some other people now so my question is: Do I need to switch or is 452X still considered a good custom string material? I have been very happy with the strings and cables on my bow, but if the other materials are truly better, then maybe I should switch before making too many out of 452X...I just want to make good strings and cables that will shoot well for myself and others...what are your opinions...thanks


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## timamc4

One last thing, I want to publicly thank Pat aka Bowbender. I got my NW Spinner today...what a great addition to my string making tools!!! It really sped things up and didn't take long to get used to...I also appreciate how quickly he got it to me...Thanks Pat!!!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

timamc4 said:


> Ok, 3 more questions...
> 
> 1. I used white halo .014 serving on a solo cam bow string. The old string had speed balls (2 brass nock points in shrink tubing) on the old serving near idler wheel. So, I went to install the speed balls in the same place on the new string and used a hair dryer to shrink the tubing...well the Halo became white instead of clear all around the speed balls ...did I use too much heat or is this normal...I can't tell if the serving is loose or not and I am also worried about any string damage??? Just wondering what you all think...
> 
> 2. Speaking of that white Halo...mine comes out somewhat dingy and dull...not completely clear...I am using very high tension...around 15-17lbs...I am afraid to go higher...I see people talking about clarifier and have heard everything from mineral spirits to wd 40...You can see the colors through my servings...it is just not as clear as I would like...am I missing something???
> 
> 3. I see just about everyone seems to use BCY X or Fury now...I am still using 452X...I am going to be making strings for some other people now so my question is: Do I need to switch or is 452X still considered a good custom string material? I have been very happy with the strings and cables on my bow, but if the other materials are truly better, then maybe I should switch before making too many out of 452X...I just want to make good strings and cables that will shoot well for myself and others...what are your opinions...thanks


1. I've never had halo go white from heat but yes, you may have used to much. Only way to know for sure is to take the nocks off and check under/around the area to see if it's been cut.

2. Clear serving will look milky over darker colors. If you use it over bright colors, it looks more clear. A clarifier will help and yes, you can use a bunch of different things as a clarifier. I've only ever used Lil John's Halo clarifier. I'm still using the first bottle that I purchased, it doesn't take much and I don't do a ton of clear serving so it's lasted. If you served your whole string at 15-17lbs, you may have some peep rotation. Long single cam strings are hard to get perfectly solid peeps after all that serving anyway but take the tension up that high and you're asking for trouble. Good luck with it. 

3. I still build most sets with 452x because I have a large supply of it. My personal stuff is Fury though if that tells you anything. I still believe that 452x makes a great set but I've personally had better performance and looks from Fury. There are still quite a few people who prefer 452x over anything else though.


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## timamc4

Thanks for the reply...I didn't make myself clear...I didn't serve a string that high...I was experimenting with the halo trying to make it clear and went to 15-17lbs trying to clear it up... I just couldn't seem to get a good completely clear serving like some I see on here...maybe they are using fishing line instead of halo...good to know about 452x. I like it as a material to work with, but haven't tried the others so I don't know if I would like them better or not...maybe have to get a sample and give it a go...as to the speed balls, the serving seemed to have cleared back up a bit...but I checked them anyway and found no issue...so I think they are ok...Thanks for this great thread and group...the info is invaluable!!! You guys are the best!!!


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## Longrange

This is a pretty impressive DIY post you have put together! I may just try this out during the winter months.


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## automan26

Longrange said:


> This is a pretty impressive DIY post you have put together! I may just try this out during the winter months.


Before you even begin, prepare yourself for becoming hopelessly addicted; it happens to everyone and I hope you get the bug too.

Automan


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## crbhunter

so first off this is an amazing thread. I got a couple questions and im going to apologize in advance if these have been asked and answered. Im only 40 pages in dont want to skip around. first question is does that loop method totally elimate back serving? second question hows everybody still feeling about the fishing line ? are you still using it? and if so what is the best to use? that could really be a money saver if it held up. thanks in advance


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## automan26

crbhunter said:


> so first off this is an amazing thread. I got a couple questions and im going to apologize in advance if these have been asked and answered. Im only 40 pages in dont want to skip around. first question is does that loop method totally elimate back serving? second question hows everybody still feeling about the fishing line ? are you still using it? and if so what is the best to use? that could really be a money saver if it held up. thanks in advance


I haven't back served my loops for a long time. I simply serve the loop and then weave each tag end through the center of the bundle several times and let the tags hang. I twist the string and cut the hanging tags just before my serving jig gets to them, then I serve over them and everything comes out great. 

I am sold on the fishing line. I have built many strings using the fishing line and I have never had a single problem. It works great and the price is right. Here are a few links for fishing line:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...w=spectra+extreme+braid+fishing+line&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100M-300M-5...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item51ca5a02bb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-White...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item33a0b2e599

I like to use weights up to 50#. I tried some 60# and it just seems a bit thick to me, but it worked fine.

Automan


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## R_Outdoors

i believe a two post would be beneficial to your set up


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## crbhunter

ok very cool auto man and thank you I am going to order some of that tonight. I built strings a about 5 yrs ago for a while and because of this thread and your jig I am going to get back into it so thank you very much for the two of you that started this. When I was building I was serving the ends the tag end thing wasnt huge yet I think 60x was the only person I got strings from that had them. I think for now I am going to stick with served ends then after a while possibly try the tag end. Do you think the loop and pull the serving back thru eliminating back serving would be ok with serving all my loops?


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## automan26

I use a two post setup so I mainly use tag ends to serve my loops. If you wish to serve the loops, you would do well to get a two post head for your jig so you can serve the loops between the posts. Many guys serve over the tags and either cut the tags flush with the serving, or they leave the tags a bit long and weave them through the bundles several times and pull them tight, then cut them. Personally, when I serve the loops I like to serve over the tags then weave the tags through the bundles as a method of securing them before twisting the string. While I am not at all opposed to serving the loops, I prefer using the tag end method. Both methods do a fine job and whichever way you go, either will work great.

Automan


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## Kyudo Novice

*Serving size ??; switching across brands & material types ( .014 Halo for .016 3D end serving and such)*
I noticed that there have been a couple mentions concerning substituting Halo for 3D, and .014Halo for .021 62XS where the choice of Halo had been significantly smaller diameter than the softer material alternative. I'm wondering if the diameters of these various materials don't exactly translate in size...maybe some are stiff and some are soft..?

I'm beginning to collect a lot of unused spools ($$$) that may or may not ever be used.


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## squid013

.016 3d can be pulled tight enough to suffice instead of halo .014. Although it will create problems around right bends. I like power grip myself. It's halo that sticks to the string better

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Kyudo Novice said:


> *Serving size ??; switching across brands & material types ( .014 Halo for .016 3D end serving and such)*
> I noticed that there have been a couple mentions concerning substituting Halo for 3D, and .014Halo for .021 62XS where the choice of Halo had been significantly smaller diameter than the softer material alternative. I'm wondering if the diameters of these various materials don't exactly translate in size...maybe some are stiff and some are soft..?
> 
> I'm beginning to collect a lot of unused spools ($$$) that may or may not ever be used.


.014 halo serves at about the same diameter as 3d even though 3d is a .016 diameter. .021 62xs serves at about the same diameter as .018 powergrip. There's nothing wrong with 3d or 62xs, they just aren't the same type of material. The braided materials like Halo and Powergrip will serve larger than non-braided materials because the braided materials hold their round shape better. 

3d is typically best used for string ends while halo/powegrip is best used for cable ends. 62xs is great on recurve strings, loops, ends and centers, but I like powergrip better for center servings on compounds. You just have to understand the application and choose the material whose properties best fit the application.


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## timamc4

I have been using White .014 Halo or Black 3D depending on which is desired for string and cable ends and I have been using.021 Powergrip for the center. Seems to work fine so far. I do have a question though. When serving the string, do you serve all the end sections first and then the center or do you just go from one end to the other in order? What I'm getting at is: I only have 1 Beiter Winder...so is it ok to serve both ends of the string and anywhere else that requires the Halo or 3D and then change spools to do the center or should I do them in order and just change back??? Also, what happens if you forget to tension your string back to 300lbs while serving? I made a set and measured at 100lbs...then forgot to tension back to 300 before starting to serve one end...I finished that end at 100lbs then I tensioned the string to 300lbs and served the rest of the string...will this have any ill effects???? Any thoughts???


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## Huntinsker

timamc4 said:


> I have been using White .014 Halo or Black 3D depending on which is desired for string and cable ends and I have been using.021 Powergrip for the center. Seems to work fine so far. I do have a question though. When serving the string, do you serve all the end sections first and then the center or do you just go from one end to the other in order? What I'm getting at is: I only have 1 Beiter Winder...so is it ok to serve both ends of the string and anywhere else that requires the Halo or 3D and then change spools to do the center or should I do them in order and just change back??? Also, what happens if you forget to tension your string back to 300lbs while serving? I made a set and measured at 100lbs...then forgot to tension back to 300 before starting to serve one end...I finished that end at 100lbs then I tensioned the string to 300lbs and served the rest of the string...will this have any ill effects???? Any thoughts???


I do both ends and anything in the center that needs the same serving, like an idler serving or a string stop. Then I go back and serve the center serving with the different material. I don't have any ill effects from that. If you serve one end at low poundage, chances are you may encounter some peep rotation if you didn't also back off the tension on your serving jig. Having the string under high tension while serving allows you to put more tension on the serving bobbin without the string rotating a lot while spinning the bobbin round and round the string. If the string bundle is not under enough tension, it will just rotate right along with the serving bobbin. That's usually what causes peep rotation in longer strings like single cam strings.


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## automan26

In December of last year I put these strings on a friend's bow. Since then he has put approximately 30,000 arrows through this string. (This guy shoots A LOT) I built him another set and today I installed them, took his old strings home, threw them on my El-Cheap-O and measured the length to check for stretch. I built the string at 56 3/4" exactly. When I measured them today, they were 56 3/4" EXACTLY. Previously I measured another set I had built for him and after 50,000 shots the string still measured 56 3/4" EXACTLY. Fury is some awesome stuff. It DOES NOT STRETCH!!!!!

aUTOMAN


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## Fiferguy

Automan, I've read some things that you have to stretch Fury longer than other materials. Have you found that to be true? How many strands are you using?

I'm thinking about using Fury next year. I just built a new set of BCY-X strings, but the last set I had approximately 20,000 shots through. I was getting some wear around the cable slide--turns out I had worn it down and it was chaffing. Thinking about trying Fury to see if it improves longevity.


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## automan26

I start out by stretching Fury for a couple hours and then I take a measurement under full tension. I come back an hour later and take another measurement. If the string has stretched I give it another hour and measure it again. I keep repeating this process until I arrive at the place where the string is no longer stretching, then I back off the tension and let it relax. Last time I did this it took about four hours for the string to stop stretching. I really can't say how much longer Fury takes to stretch out over other materials because I never really paid much attention to how long it takes for different materials; I simply keep measuring until the stretching stops. I think that 452x will stretch out in about two hours if I remember correctly.

I like to build my Fury threads using 28 strands for the string and 32 strands for the cable.


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## caspian

had to do a couple of sets in the last fortnight for people that wanted some exotic serving colours. I ordered some 3D locally but the local supplier's "we stock all colours" turned into "we have black.... but can order anything else" when actually asked. >_<

ended up with Halo at twice the price. man, I really don't like that stuff compared to fishing line. it's OK as it is, but fishing line is honestly a superior material IMO. the black Halo seems OK but the colour finish was flaking off everywhere on the fluoro green spool I bought. the fishing line is slicker, the surface finish is awesome, and no flaking when pulling a back serve through. that's normal Epoch 4 strand, the 8 is even better (just need to use up all my 4 strand first).

I've just received an order of assorted 3D from 60X today in a few colours that I can't get easily otherwise, thanks mate. awesome service as always. :thumbs_up


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## nuthinbutnock

What is the fishing line that you guys use? Where do you get it and do you use it for the end servings?


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## Sandskipper

nuthinbutnock said:


> What is the fishing line that you guys use? Where do you get it and do you use it for the end servings?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here are a few of the fishing line options to choose from. As you can see, these are taken from eBay. Most go with something in the 20, 30, 40, or 50lb range depending on where you are serving and string thickness. 









































Hope this helps!


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## nuthinbutnock

It does help. Do you guys like this stuff better than regular serving material? Right now I'm using halo, 3D and power grip. Would you say this works better? What weights would you guys use for center serving and end serving (around the cams)? Sorry, I know it's a lot of questions but I'm curious about trying this, it seems like everyone but me is using it


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## Sinister01

nuthinbutnock said:


> It does help. Do you guys like this stuff better than regular serving material? Right now I'm using halo, 3D and power grip. Would you say this works better? What weights would you guys use for center serving and end serving (around the cams)? Sorry, I know it's a lot of questions but I'm curious about trying this, it seems like everyone but me is using it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personally, I think it's about the same as 3D but with a much better price. For end serving I like 30-40# and 6-10# for loops depending on the string count/material. I haven't used it for center yet but would think a 50-60# would be real close.


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## crbhunter

just made it throught most of this and I gotta say this is probably the best post and instructions ive ever seen. along with a ton of help from others throughout the thread.


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## crbhunter

also does anybody know anyone who sells these? looking for one asap. I got all my string material and everything else necessary just with work and home life havent had alot of time to build one


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## Fiferguy

Many thanks!


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## Huntinsker

crbhunter said:


> also does anybody know anyone who sells these? looking for one asap. I got all my string material and everything else necessary just with work and home life havent had alot of time to build one


Check out BAP archery products. Butch Baker makes a really nice set if you don't want/have time to build one.


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## Fiferguy

automan26 said:


> I like to build my Fury threads using 28 strands for the string and 32 strands for the cable.


Why the different thread counts for the cables?


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## NoDeerInIowa

crbhunter said:


> also does anybody know anyone who sells these? looking for one asap. I got all my string material and everything else necessary just with work and home life havent had alot of time to build one


Sent you a pm.

Sent from my LG-LS995 using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> Why the different thread counts for the cables?


I do 28 on string and 32 on cables too. It's because on compound bows, the cables take the highest load when at full draw. The extra strands makes them more stable.


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## skynight

Huntinsker said:


> I do 28 on string and 32 on cables too. It's because on compound bows, the cables take the highest load when at full draw. The extra strands makes them more stable.


I often read of people micro adjusting holding weight with cable diameter. Thicker raising it I think. Also, this argument doesn't fit with the constant claim of superior fury stability.


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## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> I often read of people micro adjusting holding weight with cable diameter. Thicker raising it I think. Also, this argument doesn't fit with the constant claim of superior fury stability.


Why? I do thicker 452x cables too and they creep. Thicker Fury haven't so far. I'd say 95% of builders make the cables with more strands than the string regardless of the material they choose to build with. 

You're right that you can micro adjust holding weight with the thickness of the cables though. It's very small differences when you're talking a couple hundredths or thousandths of thickness difference. See the biggest difference with cable stop bows because the stop hits the cable slightly sooner if the cable is fatter. Personally I'd build the cable stop up before changing the cable diameter too much. Too big and you're asking for premature serving separation on the cable ends.


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## skynight

Huntinsker said:


> Why? I do thicker 452x cables too and they creep. Thicker Fury haven't so far. I'd say 95% of builders make the cables with more strands than the string regardless of the material they choose to build with.
> 
> You're right that you can micro adjust holding weight with the thickness of the cables though. It's very small differences when you're talking a couple hundredths or thousandths of thickness difference. See the biggest difference with cable stop bows because the stop hits the cable slightly sooner if the cable is fatter. Personally I'd build the cable stop up before changing the cable diameter too much. Too big and you're asking for premature serving separation on the cable ends.


Because if fury is 100% perfectly stable as repeatedly claimed, why is it necessary to increase strand count to make it "more stable"? At any rate not trying to start an argument about it, just thought your phrasing interesting.


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## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> Because if fury is 100% perfectly stable as repeatedly claimed, why is it necessary to increase strand count to make it "more stable"? At any rate not trying to start an argument about it, just thought your phrasing interesting.


No argument here. Just your reasoning is flawed. It's stable because of the extra strand capabilities. Just like people try with other materials like X and 452x and 8190f, they increase the strand count to make them more stable. Why can't Fury users?


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## nestly

IMO, it's not about "stability" it's about strength. For instance, 2 strands of (insert favorite string material) will be "stable" up to a point, and beyond that it's going to stretch/creep/break. Same is true for 24 strands, 28 strands, or 32 strands... no matter which material it is, it's going to be "more stable" with more strands. Having said that, if the bowstring is properly made, 24 strands of 452x or 28 strands of Fury are both more than "stable" enough, IMO

Personally, I use 24 strands of 452X for both strings and cables, except for split yokes, where increase to 28 strands because with 24 strands, there 12 strands per yoke, and only *6* wrapping around the axel. 28 strands ups the number of strands from 6 to 7.


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## Kyudo Novice

*Serving direction questions; *
Okay, I've read over and over in this thread that I should start end servings at the mid string end and serve toward the loop. I've read that winding direction should go in the same direction as the string twist to avoid problems. I must be misunderstanding those simple directions. I'm making a 3 color string with .014 white halo for clear end servings. The issue is that when I loosen the stretcher after completing the string, the middle of the string twists up tight and the twists under the end serving unwind and straighten out. I'm using two string clamps. Did the first servings with NW Spinner, reserved by hand. Served under 200 Lbs stretch, then reserved at 300 Lbs.

I looked at a factory string and saw that the end serving was wound across the string twists in the opposite direction...not with or following the string twists.

At this point, it's less work to start over and wind across the twists this time.

Does someone know what's going on?


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## michaelgentry87

Kyudo Novice said:


> *Serving direction questions; *
> Okay, I've read over and over in this thread that I should start end servings at the mid string end and serve toward the loop. I've read that winding direction should go in the same direction as the string twist to avoid problems. I must be misunderstanding those simple directions. I'm making a 3 color string with .014 white halo for clear end servings. The issue is that when I loosen the stretcher after completing the string, the middle of the string twists up tight and the twists under the end serving unwind and straighten out. I'm using two string clamps. Did the first servings with NW Spinner, reserved by hand. Served under 200 Lbs stretch, then reserved at 300 Lbs.
> 
> I looked at a factory string and saw that the end serving was wound across the string twists in the opposite direction...not with or following the string twists.
> 
> At this point, it's less work to start over and wind across the twists this time.
> 
> Does someone know what's going on?


Going right to left jig should go clockwise going over the top then under 

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## squid013

Start from the loop and work to the middle. You want the string to twist tighter to the middle

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## nestly

Kyudo Novice said:


> *Serving direction questions; *
> Okay, I've read over and over in this thread that I should start end servings at the mid string end and serve toward the loop. *I've read that winding direction should go in the same direction* as the string twist to avoid problems. I must be misunderstanding those simple directions. I'm making a 3 color string with .014 white halo for clear end servings. The issue is that when I loosen the stretcher after completing the string, the middle of the string twists up tight and the twists under the end serving unwind and straighten out. I'm using two string clamps. Did the first servings with NW Spinner, reserved by hand. Served under 200 Lbs stretch, then reserved at 300 Lbs.
> 
> I looked at a factory string and saw that the end serving was wound across the string twists in the opposite direction...not with or following the string twists.
> 
> At this point, it's less work to start over and wind across the twists this time.
> 
> Does someone know what's going on?


While it's true that you should twist and serve the same direction, that actually produces servings that go the *opposite* direction, because when you twist the string, you're typically standing "ahead" of the string, and when you serve, you're typically standing "behind" the serving tool. Serving should always go *across* the string twists (like your factory string) regardless of whether you start at the end and serve toward the middle, or start in the middle and serve toward the end.


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## Kyudo Novice

It had been my best string yet. I'm embarrassed. 
All my others have been shooting just fine, no problems. Now, i have to restring four bows to get it right.


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## skynight

Kyudo Novice said:


> *Serving direction questions; *
> Okay, I've read over and over in this thread that I should start end servings at the mid string end and serve toward the loop. I've read that winding direction should go in the same direction as the string twist to avoid problems. I must be misunderstanding those simple directions. I'm making a 3 color string with .014 white halo for clear end servings. The issue is that when I loosen the stretcher after completing the string, the middle of the string twists up tight and the twists under the end serving unwind and straighten out. I'm using two string clamps. Did the first servings with NW Spinner, reserved by hand. Served under 200 Lbs stretch, then reserved at 300 Lbs.
> 
> I looked at a factory string and saw that the end serving was wound across the string twists in the opposite direction...not with or following the string twists.
> 
> At this point, it's less work to start over and wind across the twists this time.
> 
> Does someone know what's going on?


Your going to get a lot of confusing answers. I do not try to understand it, I just use the following rule of thumb by rote. This is the answer, distilled down to usable form:

Twist the string clockwise. Serve clockwise in the direction of travel.

Everything you need to know right there.


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## SamT

skynight said:


> Your going to get a lot of confusing answers. I do not try to understand it, I just use the following rule of thumb by rote. This is the answer, distilled down to usable form:
> 
> Twist the string clockwise. Serve clockwise in the direction of travel.
> 
> Everything you need to know right there.


^ :thumbs_up

@nestly: really enjoy your vids too! :thumbs_up


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## automan26

Just pretend that you never heard of the word counterclockwise and you will be good to go.

Automan


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## Oncorhynchus

Tagged


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## elgringo

hi everyone
I'm about to make my first set for my DARTON 4800,there is floating yoke who are thiner than the cables,should i strech them at a lower poundage?
thanks for that awesome thread.


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## automan26

elgringo said:


> hi everyone
> I'm about to make my first set for my DARTON 4800,there is floating yoke who are thiner than the cables,should i strech them at a lower poundage?
> thanks for that awesome thread.


How many strands are you using and what length is the yoke?

Automan


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## elgringo

12 strands for a 14.5" long yoke


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## automan26

elgringo said:


> 12 strands for a 14.5" long yoke


12 strands scares me a bit. That strand count would put only 6 strands around the post and that is a bit thin.You could easily bump that strand count up to 18 or maybe even 20. I am assuming you are using something like 452X? Short strings, like what you are building, really get tight when tensioned and there is not much material that needs stretching, so you stretching time might be quite short. I would think an hour would be plenty. For 12 strands, my guess is that 300# is going to be a lot. I am only guessing, but I would bet that 250# would do the trick nicely. Even with 18 strands, on that short of a string, you could probably get by with less than 300#, but I don't think 300# would hurt. You will be able to judge by how tight the string becomes as you approach 300#.

Having had little experience with building short floating yoke sections, I am going by the seat of my pants here, but if I was going to build your setup, I would go with 18 strands and tension to 300# for about an hour. I think this would do the trick.

if anyone has a better idea I hope they provide some additional input.

Automan


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## elgringo

thanks AUTOMAN
i will try to push it to 18 strands and see what happen!


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## elgringo

i use BCY X by the way


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## elgringo

my first set


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## elgringo




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## elgringo




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## michaelgentry87

Stay with the 12 strands especially on a darton
Stretch them at 300lbs for about half your normal stretch times darton factory uses I think 11 strands final diameter at the serving should be .080
This is how I build all of mine btw I have four dartons


elgringo said:


> hi everyone
> I'm about to make my first set for my DARTON 4800,there is floating yoke who are thiner than the cables,should i strech them at a lower poundage?
> thanks for that awesome thread.



Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## elgringo

that's what i have done,12 strands and 30minutes strech.
I m super happy with that new set,tuned easily and i love the look.


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## automan26

Very very nice my friend. I just love it when someone posts up his first build and it looks like something cranked out by a seasoned pro. Be proud of your work and welcome to the addiction.

Automan


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## elgringo

thanks to you and Huntsinker.I spent some times reading the entire thread, wonderfull source of information


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## Huntinsker

Those look great! You should be very proud of those strings elgringo.


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## Dewboy

taged


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## skullerud

First of all.
I love this Thread, and I have learned so much Just Reading every post. 
I have No one Else anywhere close that make strings, and have use this Thread and videos to learned what i know.

I have made my share of strings, but now I've been asked by my club to have a stringmaking workshop, and I Would really appreciate it if You guys could help me put a few things down in easy steps.

What I've done until now is as fellow:

1) put the jeg posts in correct position and laying out the material.
2) serve the endloops, inkl closing them.
3) twist the string down to the correct lenght 
4) stretch for up to 24 hour @ #300+
5) let the string rest for 2-5 hours 
6) recheck length and twist more if necessary 
7) check for creep/rotasjon
8) serve all servings under at least #150 preassure the same direction as the twists in the string goes, from the loops towards the middle.


Have I forgotten something?
Anything I should do differently? 
Anything thats completly wrong? 

Sent fra min E6653 via Tapatalk


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## Sandskipper

automan26 said:


> Just pretend that you never heard of the word counterclockwise and you will be good to go.
> 
> Automan


I think this should be mentioned every time you get to a part where your going to mention twisting...... whether it be the string or the serving, ingraining this one concept early in the process will cut the redundant questions in half.


----------



## Huntinsker

skullerud said:


> First of all.
> I love this Thread, and I have learned so much Just Reading every post.
> I have No one Else anywhere close that make strings, and have use this Thread and videos to learned what i know.
> 
> I have made my share of strings, but now I've been asked by my club to have a stringmaking workshop, and I Would really appreciate it if You guys could help me put a few things down in easy steps.
> 
> What I've done until now is as fellow:
> 
> 1) put the jeg posts in correct position and laying out the material.
> 2) serve the endloops, inkl closing them.
> 3) twist the string down to the correct lenght
> 4) stretch for up to 24 hour @ #300+
> 5) let the string rest for 2-5 hours
> 6) recheck length and twist more if necessary
> 7) check for creep/rotasjon
> 8) serve all servings under at least #150 preassure the same direction as the twists in the string goes, from the loops towards the middle.
> 
> 
> Have I forgotten something?
> Anything I should do differently?
> Anything thats completly wrong?
> 
> Sent fra min E6653 via Tapatalk


I like to serve the string under as much tension as I stretch it. I'm around 400lbs now and it seems to really work well. The higher you can tension it, the less rotation you'll have. I'd also make sure they know about the standard way to measure a string, 1/4" post at 100lbs for 20 seconds and then measure outside of post to outside of post.


----------



## SamT

Every builder has their own methods, but per your numbered list:

I like to do number 4) before number 3) (stretch first, then twist) And when I twist, I like to twist under tension of about 150-200lbs by putting in about 6-7 twists, reduce the tension back down (it goes up as you twist), then put in a few more repeating this method until all my twist are in. I like to think that putting the initial number of twist under tension helps the strands lay down better. (maybe, IDK) Just the way I like to do it.

Concerning 4), I'd think you'd only need to stretch for 2 to 4 hours @ 300lbs depending upon the materials used and the number of strands.

Concerning 8), I serve all serving at 300lbs tension.


Like I said above, everybody does it different at least to a certain point.

Good Luck.


----------



## doulos

Do most builders serve from the loop towards the middle?


----------



## automan26

doulos said:


> Do most builders serve from the loop towards the middle?


Initially, I served away the loop, toward the middle, but I had a terrible time making my servings look even and professional. As soon as I tried serving toward the loop I discovered that I was finally able to get the quality of serving I had been looking for. There are those who are successful serving away from the loop, (toward the middle) but I think the majority of builders are now serving from the middle towards the loop.

Automan


----------



## nestly

automan26 said:


> Initially, I served away the loop, toward the middle, but I had a terrible time making my servings look even and professional. As soon as I tried serving toward the loop I discovered that I was finally able to get the quality of serving I had been looking for. There are those who are successful serving away from the loop, (toward the middle) but I think the majority of builders are now serving from the middle towards the loop.



Same here. I would prefer to serve toward the middle, but I found the serving "climbs up" onto the end loop servings much more cleanly than they "fall" off of them.


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> Do most builders serve from the loop towards the middle?


According to what I've found and seen in some string building groups I'm a part of, it's about a 60/40 split serving towards vs serving away. I've tried both and prefer to serve towards.


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## caspian

I serve away from the posts by habit. getting the thread to set off the end of the loop serving is definitely something to be managed, it's a lot easier with fine diameter loop serving. I also pull the ends of the loop serving down quite tight with a pair of pliers on the tag end to get a tapered end to the serving.

something else I do is back the tension off to about 50lb (where I can pinch the loops ends together with fingers) and close the loop out tightly, then as soon as I've stepped down onto the string itself I bring the tension back to normal levels. I also use a Beiter serving shifter tool to "pack" the first 1/4" or so of end serving tightly up against the loop.

result:


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## Huntinsker

Hey guys and gals. I've had quite a few people message me about how I avoid tag end served loops from separating when stretched or when sliding on string silencing accessories. I have a very simple process that I've tried to explain but I had some time this morning and decided to just video it quick. Basically I just pull the first couple wraps up against each other in the middle of the loop and then when they have enough tension to hold, I use slack to pull the next wrap back and lay it on top of the previous. Do that until you cover the curve on the loop and then finish normally. The more you overlap, the more coverage there will be. Just make sure to pull everything tight so it doesn't just give more slack to move around if it is going to separate.

This works pretty well but it's not 100%. Once in a while I'll still get a little separation when sliding TPU speed sleeves on but I'm trying to devise a tool to prevent that too. I'll post it up if I can find time to make it. 

Anyway, here's the link to the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWrZgrGBVJw


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## Binary cam man

Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## automan26

At the last minute I rushed out in a *FURY* to get my turkey, but all that was left was an old *El-Cheap-O* bird so I brought it home, but when it was done it was *STRINGY* and as tough as a *RINO*, so I *SERVED* it up with *MAJESTY* and the relatives never knew the difference.

Automan


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## Bubbatx

Good info,thanks


----------



## Jabr357

Hey Guys;

I am building a set of strings for my Mathews Halon 6 and having trouble with the 2 X 13" yoke cables - the ones that are served 4 inches in the middle.

I see from my bow and pictures of other Halons that the bare un-served big loops are twisted - not straight as they come out when I lay them on the jig. 

How are those string twists achieved on the big end loops? Thanks.


----------



## Jabr357

Jabr357 said:


> Hey Guys;
> 
> I am building a set of strings for my Mathews Halon 6 and having trouble with the 2 X 13" yoke cables - the ones that are served 4 inches in the middle.
> 
> I see from my bow and pictures of other Halons that the bare un-served big loops are twisted - not straight as they come out when I lay them on the jig.
> 
> How are those string twists achieved on the big end loops? Thanks.


PS. pretty much like this picture I could find of a floating yoke - see how the string on the yoke is twisted? how to do that? Thanks


----------



## b0w_bender

I initially started to dismiss this as a silly question, then I thought about it for a second and said gee I don't know. Then I thought about it for a good long time and I still don't know. I doubt I'll ever need to build one of these but now I really want to know how the hell did they do that.


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## Huntinsker

Pretty sure I remember someone saying that they roll the bundle a couple times before serving. They don't twist it but rather the roll it in their fingers and that causes the twist around the loops. Then they serve them. Not sure if that's now they actually do it or not.


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> Pretty sure I remember someone saying that they roll the bundle a couple times before serving. They don't twist it but rather the roll it in their fingers and that causes the twist around the loops. Then they serve them. Not sure if that's now they actually do it or not.


After several failed attempts trying to create an actual "twist" several months ago, that's the same conclusion I came to. In fact, if you look at the Mathews yokes, they have a CCW "twist" on one side of the loop and a CW "twist" on the other, which confirms that they are simply "rolled" and not twisted.


----------



## SamT

I watched a video a couple of years ago that showed them "rolling" the string before twisting and serving.

Here's link to vid: https://youtu.be/vVllzfhT2Wg ...it's about at the 2min mark.


----------



## automan26

Having never built one myself, I would wind the strands on the posts, serve the center portion, then roll the loops just before installing them on the bow.

Automan


----------



## nestly

automan26 said:


> Having never built one myself, I would wind the strands on the posts, serve the center portion, then roll the loops just before installing them on the bow.


That's what I ended up doing too, but I was uncomfortable with it because the only thing that prevents it from unrolling (and therefore getting longer) is the friction in the groove. After looking at the stock yokes closer, that's how mathews does it to, but I still think it's not the best practice.


----------



## SamT

I've never built one and currently don't have the need too, but, after watching the video and seeing at what point in the process they roll the loop, it seems like to me that you'd lay out the strands, then roll the loops, then twist the string and serve. IMO the twists and the serving would keep the loop from "un-rolling". And, I guess you could roll a little more for fine-tune adjustments.

:noidea: IDK.

Good Luck!


----------



## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> I've never built one and currently don't have the need too, but, after watching the video and seeing at what point in the process they roll the loop, it seems like to me that you'd lay out the strands, then roll the loops, then twist the string and serve. IMO the twists and the serving would keep the loop from "un-rolling". And, I guess you could roll a little more for fine-tune adjustments.
> 
> :noidea: IDK.
> 
> Good Luck!


That's what I was thinking too. Lay it out, take it off the post on one side and roll it several times. Stretch and serve the middle portion to lock the "roll twist" in place.


----------



## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> That's what I was thinking too. Lay it out, take it off the post on one side and roll it several times. Stretch and serve the middle portion to lock the "roll twist" in place.


I only did this once (Monster 7.0) but I was not able to figure out a way to get legitimate "twist" in the yoke loops and I ended up settling for a "rolled twist" like the factory stings. If you look at a Mathews yoke closely though, you'll notice the bundle goes up one side of the loop CW, then at the "top" there is no twist at all, then it reverses direction and goes down the other side CCW, meaning there's nothing to prevent the "roll" from coming back out except the friction in the groove. Apparently it works OK... but it's not ideal IMO.

There are some great and creative minds in this topic though, so if there's a better way to build Mathews yokes, this would be the place it will get figured out


----------



## Jabr357

Thank you guys - that was a lot of help. These things are trickier than they first appear.

That's what I thought - "roll" them or lay out the required lengths of string material in a twisted pattern to begin with.

I made one with the "rolling" technique and it's OK except the twists considerably shortened the overall yoke cable - by almost 1/2" even after stretching it a good long while. I am worried though that this will unwind with time on the bow - probably will not.









The next one I build I will make a little longer to compensate. I will also try to make one with the laying it out in a twisted pattern technique to see how it comes out - will let you guys know.

Thanks again.


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## Huntinsker

Just built a set for a buddies Carbon Spyder 34 and installed it for him yesterday. He's a guy that's been shooting for a couple decades and is also very knowledgeable in archery and bow hunting. He was getting his strings made by another guy he met out at Redding several years ago but since meeting me and seeing some of the strings I've made for several of the other guys we work with, he asked for one. 

I installed it and got the cam marks back exactly as they were, measure nock point and installed the peep where he had it and did a temporary tie in of the peep. We grabbed 12 of our range arrows and hit the range. First draw the peep was straight all the way through the cycle as he shot. 24 shots later it hadn't budged. He turned to me and said something to the effect of, "In 30 years of shooting bows, I've never seen a peep need zero shoot in shots to be stable". After that, we did the final tie in and everything was dead nuts when he started shooting his own arrows. Didn't even need to adjust his sights.

Not bragging on myself but on what you can do with a simple jig like we have so many great examples of in this thread. Keep up the good work guys and gals!


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## SamT

Big :thumbs_up

The word is out! Best thread on AT out there!!


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## automan26

Earlier in this thread some guys were busting my chops when I said that string building is not rocket science and anyone can learn the skill fairly quickly. Since that time we have seen several guys post up pics of their very first string build and they were absolutely PERFECT. I was even a bit jealous myself when I saw the quality strings that the newbies were cranking out. With $70.00 worth of jig parts and a little practice you don't have to be a pro to build like a pro. There are 193 pages of proof here for those who are still unconvinced that string building is not difficult to learn.

I know there are some guys reading this thread who just need a slight nudge to jump in and to those guys I say, "Go for it!!!!!" You will never regret your decision. 

Automan


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## nestly

It's not rocket science, but it is an art. Most anyone can do it, but IMO, not everyone can do it well.


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## mikx

Great info here. Thanks!


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> It's not rocket science, but it is an art. Most anyone can do it, but IMO, not everyone can do it well.


Agreed.


----------



## MandK

automan26 said:


> Earlier in this thread some guys were busting my chops when I said that string building is not rocket science and anyone can learn the skill fairly quickly. Since that time we have seen several guys post up pics of their very first string build and they were absolutely PERFECT. I was even a bit jealous myself when I saw the quality strings that the newbies were cranking out. With $70.00 worth of jig parts and a little practice you don't have to be a pro to build like a pro. There are 193 pages of proof here for those who are still unconvinced that string building is not difficult to learn.
> 
> I know there are some guys reading this thread who just need a slight nudge to jump in and to those guys I say, "Go for it!!!!!" You will never regret your decision.
> 
> Automan


This thread is what made me join AT so that I could see the pictures, I finally built my jig and jumped in with both feet and haven't looked back. Love to build strings. By the way the one nay sayer has never been back, huh wonder why? Thanks Huntsinker and Automan Best thread ever. Mark


----------



## b0w_bender

nestly said:


> It's not rocket science, but it is an art. Most anyone can do it, but IMO, not everyone can do it well.


Nestly, I'm not really disagreeing I see some strings on this thread that are dead nuts perfect and a real thing of beauty! For those I would say they are done well. My strings on the other hand are for me and frankly other than having them the right color I'm really not all that concerned about what they look like. As long as they are stable over time and don't have a lot of peep rotation I'm perfectly satisfied with an overlapping wrap here or there. Never had anyone pick up my bow and stick their snooter in a cam to see what the end loops look like. I'm not poo pooing the idea of beautiful strings I'm just pointing out that they don't need to look perfect to shoot perfectly fine. I do think that literally anyone with just a couple of practice strings can make a stable rotation free string and that's really all you need.

I would hate to see people get frustrated and give it up because their strings don't look as clean as the flawless threads pictured here on this fantastic thread.


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## nestly

b0w_bender said:


> I would hate to see people get frustrated and give it up because their strings don't look as clean as the flawless threads pictured here on this fantastic thread.


It's not my intention to discourage anyone from trying, but the reality is not everyone is well suited to every type of task. For example, given the same recipes and ingredients, anyone can "cook", but not everyone that "cooks" is good at it, even if what they prepare technically has equal nutritional value. The are thousands of other examples, (in fact for any task, there will be some people that perform the task better than others). 

I do agree that the outward appearance doesn't necessarily reflect how the string will perform..... but then again, it might.


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## Kstigall

b0w_bender said:


> Nestly, I'm not really disagreeing I see some strings on this thread that are dead nuts perfect and a real thing of beauty! For those I would say they are done well. My strings on the other hand are for me and frankly other than having them the right color I'm really not all that concerned about what they look like. As long as they are stable over time and don't have a lot of peep rotation I'm perfectly satisfied with an overlapping wrap here or there. Never had anyone pick up my bow and stick their snooter in a cam to see what the end loops look like. I'm not poo pooing the idea of beautiful strings I'm just pointing out that they don't need to look perfect to shoot perfectly fine. I do think that literally anyone with just a couple of practice strings can make a stable rotation free string and that's really all you need.
> 
> I would hate to see people get frustrated and give it up because their strings don't look as clean as the flawless threads pictured here on this fantastic thread.


EXACTLY! They don't have to appear perfect to perform excellently. In my opinion a sets "appearance" ranks far behind performance. _Stability _is all that really matters. But then again I use my string sets to post competitive scores and to hunt with not for other archers to eye ball. _BUT _if I buy them I expect them to perform flawlessly and to look good.


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## hoyt em all

some first timer strings look so good it makes me wonder..


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## b0w_bender

Kstigall said:


> _BUT _if I buy them I expect them to perform flawlessly and to look good.


Ya, if I'm purchasing them then yes I want them done by a craftsmen for sure. Just wanted prospective builders to understand that their best string is likely good enough and in most cases better than the commercial items because there is the inherent TLC that goes into the build.


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## frog gigger

Jabr357 said:


> PS. pretty much like this picture I could find of a floating yoke - see how the string on the yoke is twisted? how to do that? Thanks


I'm late for the party, but I too was at a loss when I made my first one.

Just whipped this up for experimental purposes. 
I made it 9'', served the center, then rolled the ends. It lost 1/8'', stretched at 300 for 10 minutes, gained nothing. 

I guess the word lace would better define my method.
After the center is served, the two colors are still separated. 
I then take one bundle in and out of the other to get the twisted look, rolling does the same, lacing seems to look better. 

Can't figure how you lost 1/2''.


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## frog gigger

I've just finished my first string using Fury. 
452x is the only material I've ever worked with.
So far, Bob at BCY is gonna miss me. 

Some spools may vary, but that the cleanest stuff I've ever worked with.:thumbs_up


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## Kyudo Novice

*2 Post Loop Serving Method*
I've served a number of loops now with the same method as tag end serving. All have performed and maintained well. It doesn't take more than a couple extra minutes, if any. Fit and finish is nice every time. I tried it after an unsuccessful attempt to swing the double post to serve the loop and miss positioning the second loop serving. I never have stripes or bundles shift or mix with 2 post method. Loop serving ends always stop exactly where desired. It seems simple and consistent, but moderately tedious. 

My attempts at 3 post and 4 post methods seem cumbersome for my clumsy organization, especially with 2 and 3 color.

Any ideas or advice?


----------



## Huntinsker

frog gigger said:


> I've just finished my first string using Fury.
> 452x is the only material I've ever worked with.
> So far, Bob at BCY is gonna miss me.
> 
> Some spools may vary, but that the cleanest stuff I've ever worked with.:thumbs_up


Fury is my favorite to work with by far. The type of wax and the weave of the individual fibers in the strands is so much cleaner than anything that BCY has, that I've worked with anyway, that the strings automatically look better just from the cleaner looking material you're working with. Great stuff.


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## hoyt em all

i like 454x, but it does last long . i tried to push it threw two years and payed the price (i don't shoot that much) how does Fury hold up? does it get fuzzy after 3-5 k shots ? i don't plan on buying any more string material until my BCY X,452x, 8125 are used up . just curious as to longevity compared to these


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## Huntinsker

hoyt em all said:


> i like 454x, but it does last long . i tried to push it threw two years and payed the price (i don't shoot that much) how does Fury hold up? does it get fuzzy after 3
> 
> Got a set of Fury threads on my bow that I built October of 2014. They're the Silver/Black with flo orange pinstripe. They look like the day I put them on and I've shot that bow for indoor and outdoor target for that whole time. WAY more than 3-5K shots. Wax it once every couple weeks and it's good to go. I don't ever hit my arm while shooting or anything though.


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## automan26

I may have already posted this, but here goes anyway. I have a good friend who is an unbelievable archer and shoots a minimum of twice a day, 365 days a year. He puts a ton of arrows through his strings. I built a set of Fury strings for him and after what we estimate to have been 50,000 shots, I replaced them and put them on my jig and checked their length after so many shots. I built the strings to 56.5" and when I checked their length after all those shots, they still measured 56.5" exactly. After about 30,000 shots I replaced the second set of strings and again, after all that use, they measured exactly 56.5". The Fury material did not stretch at all after tens of thousands of shots.

FURY ROCKS

Automan


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## Chevyman17

.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## caspian

I bought a Hoyt Contender in late 2010 and kept it for nearly 4 years. in that time, the factory strings did not budge from when originally timed. amazing stability. the person I sold it to killed them in 6 months by letting them dry out and fray.

I suspect most if not all modern materials are excellent, and the difference is in handling characteristics.


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## Kaveman44

Haven't built any strings or shot for a while and now that seasons coming around again in my area figured I'd get back into it , build the set from my daughters bow


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## Hoogie2004

Very cool color combination. White and pink really work well.

Made a string yesterday as a test, already gave it away to a youth archer from my sponsors team:








Now to make another one for myself


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## mcatdt99

Where's the best place to buy string material and serving? Building one of these now and have no clue as to what type of material to buy. Need to research first but would be nice to read some product descriptions

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## skullerud

Hope this is the right forum for my question...

I'm used BCY Trophy the last few years, but now I'm about to run out of several colors and its time to fill up the inventory. 

So the first question is if there is a better choice of string material out there for compound strings, that I should go for? Looks like many of the pros have switched to BCY X.

And the second question is as I have a few large spools of som colors of trophy left, if I make the switched to BCY X, or another similar material, Will it be advicable to used the rest of the Trophy material in combination with the bcy X or similar until I'm out of Trophy, or should I keeper them separat?


Sent fra min E6653 via Tapatalk


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## automan26

Mixing materials is not something you should consider. Your peep will spin like a top and you will be extremely unhappy with the final outcome.

Automan.


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## Coug09

mcatdt99 said:


> Where's the best place to buy string material and serving? Building one of these now and have no clue as to what type of material to buy. Need to research first but would be nice to read some product descriptions
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I've researched this same question and go to the Catfish Custom Bowstrings website (retrieverfishin) on here. He's by far the cheapest I found. Unfortunately, I had already ordered two 1/4lb spools from 60x but he was only a dollar cheaper on 1/4. He's several dollars cheaper on 1/8 than most. I wouldn't have gotten the 1/4s had I found him sooner


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hoyt em all

on my local news today ,they said people giving the piece sign run the risk of getting their fingerprints stolen form high res smartphone pictures. not sure what they would get from me ,however the police have my prints from me getting my conceal carry permit. so i would show your strings against something other than your hand/fingers …just saying..


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## RPAYNE3

Tagged


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crash_Pilot

I'm looking to get into making my own strings, not as a business but because I'm very independent and like doing stuff myself. My question is can i get the same results from a string set that i buy from a known manufacturer? 

Thank you for your time.


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## RatherBArchery

I tend to always fall back on using Trophy after giving 452X a try once in a while because I hate fuzzy strings!! I never see much mention of BCY trophy, is there a reason why???


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## SamT

Crash_Pilot said:


> ...My question is can i get the same results from a string set that i buy from a known manufacturer?


Often, BETTER! Usually a little more TLC when making than a Mfr can give.


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## skullerud

RatherBArchery said:


> I tend to always fall back on using Trophy after giving 452X a try once in a while because I hate fuzzy strings!! I never see much mention of BCY trophy, is there a reason why???


I use trophy and love it. Dont miss the 452x at all. 
Just wondering if the bcy X is Even Better?


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## Tincat

This is so informative, I can't wait to get started.


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## caspian

skullerud said:


> I use trophy and love it. Dont miss the 452x at all.
> Just wondering if the bcy X is Even Better?


yes, it is. the surface finish and slickness to X is superior to Trophy, and the wear is better. it does stretch differently so be prepared to experiment and tweak your layup lengths.


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## skullerud

So how does it stretch differently?
More? Less?
All my layups are calculated with the excel sheet someone om AT shared a few years ago

Sent fra min E6653 via Tapatalk


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## automan26

Crash_Pilot said:


> I'm looking to get into making my own strings, not as a business but because I'm very independent and like doing stuff myself. My question is can i get the same results from a string set that i buy from a known manufacturer?
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Most professional string builders guarantee their strings to have zero peep rotation after 100 shots. I am disappointed when my my peep is still rotating after 15 shots. After installing my last set of strings on a friend's bow, I drew back hard against the wall about 10 times to set the string in the cam grooves then installed the peep and it hasn't rotated a bit after over 2000 shots. I have gone to the range and watched guys press their bow and adjust the peep on professionally-built strings that were less than a year old, thinking that is normal. Once you get a feel for building your own strings, yours will be better than anything you can purchase commercially. 

Automan


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## KansasBowman12

Wow this is a great thread, makes me want to make my own strings...


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## KansasBowman12

Very informative


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## Huntinsker

Great to see some new "faces" in here. Welcome folks! Hope you find this informative and helpful. Remember to use the search function and if you get stuck, there's a lot of seasoned builders that still offer great advice.


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## aread

Huntinsker / Automan26,

Can you give us a summary list of the things necessary to building a string that doesn't twist. I assume that it would include:

- modern string material like X & Fury or few others
- even tension while spinning the string
- stretching 
- serving in the right direction
- serving with the right amount of tension

What else??

Just about everything has been discussed in this thread, so the details aren't necessary. But 195 pages may be a little overwhelming to those who are new to string building.

I still think this is the best thread on AT. You two, and others, have given us a huge amount of string building information. :thumbs_up

Many thanks,
Allen


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## automan26

Right now I am on the road (wife driving) answering on my phone but the PowerPoint presentation in my signature has a lot of what you mentioned. There is a basic string building tutorial somewhere in the middle.

Automan


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## JF from VA

skullerud said:


> I use trophy and love it. Dont miss the 452x at all.
> Just wondering if the bcy X is Even Better?


Has anyone done any testing to determine if there is a significant speed difference between 452x and X?


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## IdahoGobbler

Making this jig an alittle confused.... if I drill a hole in the 3/4 flatbar big enough to fit the 5/8 allthread through it there will be less than a 1/16 on each side of the hole to beable to support it??? Is that a typo or am I reading something wrong here


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## IdahoGobbler

Just seems like maybe 1 inch would be better???? Idk just sketched out to take that to 300 +lbs 


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## deerbum

It was a typo, you'll want something as wide as the unistrut corner brackets, I used 2" x 1/2" as that was what my local farm implement manufacturer had on hand.


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## Huntinsker

IdahoGobbler said:


> Making this jig an alittle confused.... if I drill a hole in the 3/4 flatbar big enough to fit the 5/8 allthread through it there will be less than a 1/16 on each side of the hole to beable to support it??? Is that a typo or am I reading something wrong here
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes that was a typo and for some reason the mods didn't help me out and correct it when I asked. I didn't catch it until the thread was 5 pages long. It should be 1.5" flat bar.


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## Coug09

I wanted to show off one of my first endloops. Ignore the sharpie mark in the middle. I got carried away. 











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## mcatdt99

Coug09 said:


> I wanted to show off one of my first endloops. Ignore the sharpie mark in the middle. I got carried away.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Making this jig now. It's awesome to see that newbies are having such great success given that I will be amongst you soon. That looks really, really good.

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## Sandskipper

Coug09 said:


> I wanted to show off one of my first endloops. Ignore the sharpie mark in the middle. I got carried away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That looks so good, it almost looks fake! Great job, that is clean!!!


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## 138104

Coug09 said:


> I wanted to show off one of my first endloops. Ignore the sharpie mark in the middle. I got carried away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, that is clean! Great job!


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## mcatdt99

automan26 said:


> Right now I am on the road (wife driving) answering on my phone but the PowerPoint presentation in my signature has a lot of what you mentioned. There is a basic string building tutorial somewhere in the middle.
> 
> Automan


I can't get ahold of this power point. Would you be willing to share again?

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## automan26

mcatdt99 said:


> I can't get ahold of this power point. Would you be willing to share again?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


https://www.dropbox.com/s/iy7pu9gxy7ogf3c/El-Cheap-O 3.14.ppsx?dl=0
Here is a fresh copy of the link. You may need to download the Dropbox app.

You may have to open it using the OPEN box in the upper right corner of the Dropbox page.

Automan


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## mcatdt99

Got it. Thank you very much. A wealth of information and can't wait to get started

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## Coug09

I will add that I don't use the jig in the plans but it's a great starter jig. I decided to go the Baker route with a 4 post and the stretcher unit. To be fair, I had a pretty good knowledge base to begin with. For those that are starting completely fresh, the advice I have is string building is about a bunch of small details. Some may benefit writing the process down for a while to make sure you don't forget anything. A checklist if you will


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## JF from VA

A checklist is a great suggestion. After I built my jig, I copied the checklist that Huntinsker posted early in this thread and have added a few things to it over time. I don't make enough strings to get the process down cold, so I rely on a checklist so to not forget any detail.


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## mattafliving

So I'm in the process of putting together everything I need to start building strings. I've been trying to estimate how much material is needed to build a bow string but haven't been able to find how much serving is used up on one set of strings. What is the approximate amount of string sets you can build with one spool of serving material such as bullwhip or 3D?


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## RatherBArchery

I have two spools of Dynaflight 97 at home I won as door prizes, what can I use that material for??? Will it make a decent bow string???


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## JF from VA

It would probably be better for a recurve than a modern compound. As it is an all-Dyneema material, you will see some movement in it. It is a larger diameter and earlier version of 8125.


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## Huntinsker

RatherBArchery said:


> I have two spools of Dynaflight 97 at home I won as door prizes, what can I use that material for??? Will it make a decent bow string???


Up until a couple years ago, 2-3, PSE's lower end bows were coming with all D97 sets of strings. For compounds, it's not great but it makes a really good recurve or longbow string. It can be used as a compound string but don't be surprised if you get creep from it.


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> So I'm in the process of putting together everything I need to start building strings. I've been trying to estimate how much material is needed to build a bow string but haven't been able to find how much serving is used up on one set of strings. What is the approximate amount of string sets you can build with one spool of serving material such as bullwhip or 3D?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It takes roughly 13" of 3d to lay down 1" of serving on 24 strands of 452x. A jig spool of 3d had 120 yards on it. So if you do the math...... 3ft x 120 = 360.....360ft x 12 = 4320in.......4320in / 13in = 332" of serving on a 24 strand string.

Halo takes 18" of .014 to lay down 1" of serving on a 24 strand string.

Not sure on bullwhip but it would be close to Halo.


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## mattafliving

Thanks Huntinsker 


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## Jabr357

Coug09 said:


> I wanted to show off one of my first endloops. Ignore the sharpie mark in the middle. I got carried away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow! Kudos - what wonderful work!!

Don't want to ask you for your string building secrets LOL, but did you use mineral oil or something else to "shine" it up a bit? looks very slick and shiny.


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## phytenphyre

Over the past two days, I searched, bought, ordered, picked-up all of the material I needed to build this jig that is so highly talked about here. I completed it last night and thought I would share with you.


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## SamT

:thumbs_up !


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## lunghit

Ok not a string building question but does anyone have a pic of a black and flo orange with silver pin string? Debating the next color combo on my Reign 7 that should be here in a few weeks. Thanks.


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## automan26

lunghit said:


> Ok not a string building question but does anyone have a pic of a black and flo orange with silver pin string? Debating the next color combo on my Reign 7 that should be here in a few weeks. Thanks.


It is interesting that when I opened your post on my cell phone, right next to me was a practice bow with exactly what you are looking for. This is a cheap cell photo and the colors are a tad brighter up close, but this should give you an idea of what you are asking about. The silver pins are too small. If I was going to build the string again I would make each pin a strand or two wider. The silver cannot be seen once I move back a step or two. Also, these threads are made from 452x. Fury would look much better in these colors.
Automan


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## lunghit

Thanks Automan! Funny that color combo was sitting right next to you. You are right that pin does not pop out at you. I might do orange and black with a silver pin. I have done that combo bedpans it does look much nicer. You just saved me some material lol.


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## Sinister01

lunghit said:


> Thanks Automan! Funny that color combo was sitting right next to you. You are right that pin does not pop out at you. I might do orange and black with a silver pin. I have done that combo bedpans it does look much nicer. You just saved me some material lol.


scratching my head trying to figure out how the word " bedpans" made it's way into your post.....lol


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## lunghit

Sinister01 said:


> scratching my head trying to figure out how the word " bedpans" made it's way into your post.....lol


LOL auto correct on my phone. I don't even know what that means haha. I guess I should proof read these things. I meant to type I have done those combos "before".


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## BlindBuck

Hey guys. Just checking to see if anyone has tried the below or knows anyone who has? Everything looks promising for maintaining tension even on long runs. The price on the other hand is well beyond what I would like to spend on a hope that it actually works.

http://shop.firenock.com/AeroBowStr...C195153DD25822D803423870ABC75.p3plqscsfapp005

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## lunghit

BlindBuck said:


> Hey guys. Just checking to see if anyone has tried the below or knows anyone who has? Everything looks promising for maintaining tension even on long runs. The price on the other hand is well beyond what I would like to spend on a hope that it actually works.
> 
> http://shop.firenock.com/AeroBowStr...C195153DD25822D803423870ABC75.p3plqscsfapp005
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Wow thats expensive. But I will say if they can control tension better than my Beiter Heavy it may be worth it. I just don't want to be the one to try it out at that price.


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## 138104

BlindBuck said:


> Hey guys. Just checking to see if anyone has tried the below or knows anyone who has? Everything looks promising for maintaining tension even on long runs. The price on the other hand is well beyond what I would like to spend on a hope that it actually works.
> 
> http://shop.firenock.com/AeroBowStr...C195153DD25822D803423870ABC75.p3plqscsfapp005
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


He offers a 30 day money back guarantee, so go for it!  

I hope it at least comes assembled. He has a video showing the assembly and it is pretty involved. I bet it works great though!


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## BlindBuck

lunghit said:


> Wow thats expensive. But I will say if they can control tension better than my Beiter Heavy it may be worth it. I just don't want to be the one to try it out at that price.


Yes it is. I agree my Beiter even with a spring modification loses tension on long runs.


Perry24 said:


> He offers a 30 day money back guarantee, so go for it!
> 
> I hope it at least comes assembled. He has a video showing the assembly and it is pretty involved. I bet it works great though!


Hah yeah I will probably be the guinea pig as I'm going to the outdoor show Thursday. So if he has one there I'll probably leave with it.lol

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## b0w_bender

I also looked at the way a fishing real provides drag and honestly I didn't think it was all that more sophisticated than adding a spring that couldn't rotate. Well at least the ones that I looked at. I didn't disassemble any $400 fishing reels to look at their innards. I would be curious to see what they have inside those knobs. Everything outside the knobs is just a polished up Bieter. I hope it works and I hope the frame is the same size as the Beiter.


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## 138104

b0w_bender said:


> I also looked at the way a fishing real provides drag and honestly I didn't think it was all that more sophisticated than adding a spring that couldn't rotate. Well at least the ones that I looked at. I didn't disassemble any $400 fishing reels to look at their innards. I would be curious to see what they have inside those knobs. Everything outside the knobs is just a polished up Bieter. I hope it works and I hope the frame is the same size as the Beiter.


Here's a video that shows the components of the jig and assembly.

https://youtu.be/q0FmVvOwh50


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## automan26

I think we tend to over stress things that may not be all that important. I have been serving my strings for years using a simple $20.00 Spigarelli serving tool and my strings turn out with zero peep rotation. If I had chosen to use a very expensive, high tech serving tool, my strings would have had zero peep rotation. The difference would have been.....? Some guys insist that all the strands should be unwound from the spool with absolutely perfect and even strand tension across the bundle, so they purchase a special tool for that purpose, but I don't have one of those tools and my strings come out spot-on every time. In fact, if you want to learn a lesson about perfect strand tension, build a string, twist it up then stretch it under high tension properly, then untwist it and look at how even the strand tension is after untwisting the string. You will see horribly loose strands all over the place. 

There are times when close attention to detail is all that is needed, but going way above and beyond doesn't make a noticeable difference. Do your best, pay close attention to detail, but don't go ape about needing to have absolute, 110%, ultimate perfection. 

I would be willing to bet that it would be impossible to notice a performance difference between a string built using this high tech, big buck serving tool and string built using a more traditional serving tool used by a competent builder. When I serve a string using clear serving material from my Spigarelli, I do not see that the string has an uneven twist rate under the serving. Everything looks fine and if you pay close attention to what you are doing, you can build an outstanding string without a lot of big buck tools. Example? The El-Cheap-O is a low tech, low budget tool, but it builds a very fine string. High tech jigs do the job a bit more easily and a bit faster, but not necessarily better.

Automan


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## nestly

No matter how consistent the Firenock drag system is, the actual payout tension will still be continuously changing as the spool empties because the amount of force needed to turn the spool changes as the amount of serving on the spool decreases. The most consistent serving tool I have applies most of the drag to the serving itself, rather than relying primarily on resistance on the spool.


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## BlindBuck

Automan,

I concur with everything you are saying to a point. My issue with our current offerings of serving tools are none of them hold the same tension from start to finish for me. While I think $200 is extremely high, if it actually held the same tension from start to finish it would calm my OCD with string building. Do I think my Beiters do a poor job? No, I've just always thought they could do better by maintaining the same tension. Would I notice a difference? Highly doubtful. The only thing it would do is give me piece of mind knowing my starting tension was also my ending tension. Even if the drag system on this unit does work I still see room for improvement on it. For some reason this jig is also made like the Beiter with a slit for lacing the serving. b0wbender made an awesome unit last year that totally eliminated that issue and it still didn't require threading the serving through a hole.

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## automan26

BlindBuck said:


> Automan,
> 
> I concur with everything you are saying to a point. My issue with our current offerings of serving tools are none of them hold the same tension from start to finish for me. While I think $200 is extremely high, if it actually held the same tension from start to finish it would calm my OCD with string building. Do I think my Beiters do a poor job? No, I've just always thought they could do better by maintaining the same tension. Would I notice a difference? Highly doubtful. The only thing it would do is give me piece of mind knowing my starting tension was also my ending tension. Even if the drag system on this unit does work I still see room for improvement on it. For some reason this jig is also made like the Beiter with a slit for lacing the serving. b0wbender made an awesome unit last year that totally eliminated that issue and it still didn't require threading the serving through a hole.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


I agree that you can't put a price on confidence. It's really all about how you feel about the quality of your finished product. I think we are on the same page here. I have had strings I refused to sell because of some little thing that didn't matter and no one but me would ever notice. Confidence will make you a better builder. If this tool gives you peace of mind, then you should go ahead and get it if you want.

Automan


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## Hoyt slayer

Ok so just to make sure I have everything correct regarding serving direction. 

Twists were put in from non sprung end in a clockwise rotation. 

So when serving towards the sprung end the server goes clockwise.

So when serving towards non sprung end I serve counter clockwise.

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## Terrace bulls

Ok here goes. I started building my string jig two months ago and then wound my first string and cable set. I enjoyed it so much as there are so many things to take into consideration but the formula and details that automan and huntnskr gave at begiof the thread helped a ton and I want to thank you guys for elevating my archery to another level with building strings. I also have a ton of questions but I will start with just a couple. Do you guys change your stretching tension string to string. Does more tension than say 350 # build a more stable string. Also how does a guy. navigate this world of archery talk to find string and serving specs. Thanks for the help


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## automan26

Hoyt slayer said:


> Ok so just to make sure I have everything correct regarding serving direction.
> 
> Twists were put in from non sprung end in a clockwise rotation.
> 
> So when serving towards the sprung end the server goes clockwise.
> 
> So when serving towards non sprung end I serve counter clockwise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


A string builder never heard the word counterclockwise. It makes no sense and the more you concentrate on it, the more confused you will become. Always go clockwise and you will always be good to go.

Automan


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## caspian

lunghit said:


> Wow thats expensive.


that is the same reaction everyone has to everything Firenock make. expensive, overbuilt and just not necessary.

I have no doubt it works superbly, but I'd far rather have 4 Beiter Profi jigs and a handful of spare slip disks.


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## BlindBuck

nestly said:


> No matter how consistent the Firenock drag system is, the actual payout tension will still be continuously changing as the spool empties because the amount of force needed to turn the spool changes as the amount of serving on the spool decreases. The most consistent serving tool I have applies most of the drag to the serving itself, rather than relying primarily on resistance on the spool.


Interesting which jig do you have that applies drag to the serving as well as the spool?



automan26 said:


> I agree that you can't put a price on confidence. It's really all about how you feel about the quality of your finished product. I think we are on the same page here. I have had strings I refused to sell because of some little thing that didn't matter and no one but me would ever notice. Confidence will make you a better builder. If this tool gives you peace of mind, then you should go ahead and get it if you want.
> 
> Automan


Yep we are on the same page. I love the process of string building (well it's an art really). Always looking to better my prior set and further refine my technique. Nestly does make an excellent point though about the drag being applied to the spool only though. I'll check them out in person on Thursday.....Doubtful that he'll let me test drive one though.lol

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## lunghit

automan26 said:


> I think we tend to over stress things that may not be all that important. I have been serving my strings for years using a simple $20.00 Spigarelli serving tool and my strings turn out with zero peep rotation. If I had chosen to use a very expensive, high tech serving tool, my strings would have had zero peep rotation. The difference would have been.....? Some guys insist that all the strands should be unwound from the spool with absolutely perfect and even strand tension across the bundle, so they purchase a special tool for that purpose, but I don't have one of those tools and my strings come out spot-on every time. In fact, if you want to learn a lesson about perfect strand tension, build a string, twist it up then stretch it under high tension properly, then untwist it and look at how even the strand tension is after untwisting the string. You will see horribly loose strands all over the place.
> 
> There are times when close attention to detail is all that is needed, but going way above and beyond doesn't make a noticeable difference. Do your best, pay close attention to detail, but don't go ape about needing to have absolute, 110%, ultimate perfection.
> 
> I would be willing to bet that it would be impossible to notice a performance difference between a string built using this high tech, big buck serving tool and string built using a more traditional serving tool used by a competent builder. When I serve a string using clear serving material from my Spigarelli, I do not see that the string has an uneven twist rate under the serving. Everything looks fine and if you pay close attention to what you are doing, you can build an outstanding string without a lot of big buck tools. Example? The El-Cheap-O is a low tech, low budget tool, but it builds a very fine string. High tech jigs do the job a bit more easily and a bit faster, but not necessarily better.
> 
> Automan


Yes I agree. I have dissected many strings including my own to stock strings that come with bows to custom strings from well known makers here. I was amazed at the loose strands I have found. Even the legs of a buss cable with all the twists removed from a stock Bowtech string I found some very loose strands.

I used to pull my hair out when things like my Beiter jig lost some tension or I noticed some loose strands in my builds. But none and I mean none of my strings have any peep rotation and everyone has been extremely happy with them. I pay attention to the small details and keep things consistent but I now know that there is no reason to worry about certain things I used to.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> No matter how consistent the Firenock drag system is, the actual payout tension will still be continuously changing as the spool empties because the amount of force needed to turn the spool changes as the amount of serving on the spool decreases. The most consistent serving tool I have applies most of the drag to the serving itself, rather than relying primarily on resistance on the spool.


Bingo! That's why his server may be nice but it still isn't enough better than a Beiter to bother dropping that kind of money on it. The best type of serving jig would be a wand style that puts drag directly on the serving. Serving would be run off of a spool, like a 1lb spool, and pulled through the serving jig. If you have a serving machine like a specialty machine or a homebrew like your setup, that will work. If not, and you're spinning the serving around the stationary string, you'll never truly be able to have 100% consistent serving tensions.


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## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> Ok here goes. I started building my string jig two months ago and then wound my first string and cable set. I enjoyed it so much as there are so many things to take into consideration but the formula and details that automan and huntnskr gave at begiof the thread helped a ton and I want to thank you guys for elevating my archery to another level with building strings. I also have a ton of questions but I will start with just a couple. Do you guys change your stretching tension string to string. Does more tension than say 350 # build a more stable string. Also how does a guy. navigate this world of archery talk to find string and serving specs. Thanks for the help


Glad you're finding the thread useful and welcome to the community! I've found that if you stretch for adequate amounts of time, the tension at which you stretch your strings has little to do with the final quality. That said, the higher the tension you put them under, the faster they will be done stretching. I like 350-400. I do strings for an hour at least and cables no less then 30 minutes. Fury sets I go a little longer and do at least 1.5 hrs on strings and 45min on cables. 

The key is the time on the stretcher. I work mostly with 452x and Fury and I know that 452x "hits bottom" faster than Fury so I don't have to stretch it quite as long. Fury takes longer because there are more strands in the same bundle size. This is one reason why Fury is also more stable in my experience. The added strands give more stability than a larger diameter material with fewer strands. Just like braided line. One with more strands in the same diameter will have a higher breaking strength than a lesser strand braid, all else being equal of course. 

To find string and serving specs, there's 2 great sticky threads in the Arrows & Strings forum. Many builders will go there to share specs and all you have to do is use the search function. Here are the threads, part 1 and 2. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4706753


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## Hoyt slayer

automan26 said:


> A string builder never heard the word counterclockwise. It makes no sense and the more you concentrate on it, the more confused you will become. Always go clockwise and you will always be good to go.
> 
> Automan


So just to make double sure I have this. 

Always go clockwise when looking from the non sprung end. No matter which direction you are serving towards.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Hoyt slayer said:


> So just to make double sure I have this.
> 
> Always go clockwise when looking from the non sprung end. No matter which direction you are serving towards.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Check out page 111, post 2775 and then page 130, post 3244. nestly made some incredible videos showing the relationship between twisting a string and serving a string and what way is correct. It's easier to see it than to imagine it.


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## nestly

BlindBuck said:


> Interesting which jig do you have that applies drag to the serving as well as the spool?


I don't know the name (the ones i have are 25+ years old) They come with only light springs on each side of the tension mechanism so I added washers which permit more clamping force on the serving without deforming the frame. A smaller version of that tension system on the top (last) roller of a Beiter jig would probably work pretty sweet


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## skynight

Hoyt slayer said:


> So just to make double sure I have this.
> 
> Always go clockwise when looking from the non sprung end. No matter which direction you are serving towards.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


No. Go clockwise in the direction of travel.


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## Hoyt slayer

skynight said:


> No. Go clockwise in the direction of travel.


That's what I needed. Thanks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## BlindBuck

nestly said:


> I don't know the name (the ones i have are 25+ years old) They come with only light springs on each side of the tension mechanism so I added washers which permit more clamping force on the serving without deforming the frame. A smaller version of that tension system on the top (last) roller of a Beiter jig would probably work pretty sweet


Pretty sure that is a Cajun serving jig. I think I have one yet somewhere packed away in my old archery gear. You're right about them being old mine would be twenty years old or so. Never tried using it since I've been string building (2012). I'll have to see if I can find it.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## phytenphyre

So I posted pics of my new jig, #4884 I believe. I since went back and made some changes. Here are the New and improved pics and jig.


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## automan26

phytenphyre said:


> So I posted pics of my new jig, #4884 I believe. I since went back and made some changes. Here are the New and improved pics and jig.


Awesome. I love the looks of those grade 8 nuts and bolts. That gold finish adds a nice touch of class. You should be proud of your finished product. I would brag about it if that was my build.

Automan


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## azfiredog300

Love it, now I just got to go buy some more tools:wink:


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## lunghit

One thing I want to bring up is flag twist. My flag is a piece of string material between the colors where the peep will eventually be. With my strand layout and build process some strings will have flag twists and others will not. The ones with twist will rotate around 90 degrees when going from 0-300 pounds. I am not too worried about it because the ones that show the flag movement have no peep rotation, but I'd love to find out why and try to avoid it. Thanks


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## automan26

At times I have nearly zero flag twist from 300#-100#, but from 100# down I see a bit. I think most strings will flex around a tad upon full relaxation. Like you, I don't see any performance issues. It may be possible that as the tension is being removed, the string itself is also contracting and becoming shorter due to the relieved tension. Try letting your string relax for an hour or so, then tension it back to 300# and before it has time to stretch, back it down and watch the flag. You may find less flag twist when you try this.

Automan


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## lunghit

Thanks Automan. I meant to say 45 degrees rotation not 90. After the string relaxes after serving it definitely calms down during a stretch. And like yours most of the slight rotation is 0-100 with very little if any after 100. Probably nothing to worry about but was wondering if others see what I am.


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## NP Archery

lunghit said:


> Thanks Automan. I meant to say 45 degrees rotation not 90. After the string relaxes after serving it definitely calms down during a stretch. And like yours most of the slight rotation is 0-100 with very little if any after 100. Probably nothing to worry about but was wondering if others see what I am.


In my experience, it's the rotation after you get above #100 or so that can be an issue. Very few of mine are rock steady below #100 until after they have relaxed for a while.


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## lunghit

NP Archery said:


> In my experience, it's the rotation after you get above #100 or so that can be an issue. Very few of mine are rock steady below #100 until after they have relaxed for a while.


Good to know. Thanks NP


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## Huntinsker

NP Archery said:


> In my experience, it's the rotation after you get above #100 or so that can be an issue. Very few of mine are rock steady below #100 until after they have relaxed for a while.


Same experience as I've had. Even when relaxing a bow in the press, sometimes a totally stable peep will rotate a couple degrees when the string begins to go lax. If the peep doesn't move when you draw the bow, ya done good.


----------



## caspian

same. I don't pay much attention to what the string does when relaxed from brace, because it never sees that in use.


----------



## b0w_bender

caspian said:


> same. I don't pay much attention to what the string does when relaxed from brace, because it never sees that in use.


exactly my thoughts too.


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## nestly

caspian said:


> same. I don't pay much attention to what the string does when relaxed from brace, because it never sees that in use.





b0w_bender said:


> exactly my thoughts too.


Actually, the tension on a typical compound bowstring is WELL under 20 pounds when the bow is at full draw....


----------



## Firenock

if you do you already own a high speed server, I really do not think you need a Firenock BowString Server! it shines at speed of 500 rpm or above. Serving at 1600 rpm, I do not think there is an alternative! Try to serve at 1600 rpm for 42" and see how many tool actually survive and hold consistent tension. Use the same method how IGFA record chaser use on drag tension on the spool to set the pay out pressure with a spring scale. Just an FYI, AEBSSJ original retail for $329.95 retail, but after careful consideration, there will be only one price for everyone, $200.00.


----------



## skynight

nestly said:


> Actually, the tension on a typical compound bowstring is WELL under 20 pounds when the bow is at full draw....


Definitely less tension than at brace. I'm not comfortable sliding a peep at brace but easily done at full draw. No idea the real tension difference though.


----------



## lees

lunghit said:


> Yes I agree. I have dissected many strings including my own to stock strings that come with bows to custom strings from well known makers here. I was amazed at the loose strands I have found. Even the legs of a buss cable with all the twists removed from a stock Bowtech string I found some very loose strands.
> 
> I used to pull my hair out when things like my Beiter jig lost some tension or I noticed some loose strands in my builds. But none and I mean none of my strings have any peep rotation and everyone has been extremely happy with them. I pay attention to the small details and keep things consistent but I now know that there is no reason to worry about certain things I used to.


Hi all, new here and what a great thread!

But I've been building my own strings for a while now and have noticed the same thing. For instance, when laying up string material on a 4 post, I can work for quite a while getting all the strands perfectly even. But after I've done the end servings often one or two of the strands has loosened a little more than the others after I tie everything off. I have found that the strands all even out once against once I move it over to the stretcher anyway.

Similarly for all the other servings. I do keep the tension on the serving jig the same from start to finish so each end gets the same tension, but I have found just reasonable quality control on the tension works fine. I've developed a feel for what's too loose and what's too tight and I just set the tension accordingly.

Where I focus my attention is care on the stretching, twisting, burnishing and relaxing periods. And my strings usually come out fine with just reasonable QC. I don't make them for sale, though, or I'd only do a set for a friend for free, because mine tend to be ugly at the loops (I use industrial strength methods for terminating the tag ends, etc. I prefer super strong and stable over looks) and my skill level isn't that far along. 

But I think it's all in your skill at using the tools you have, more than just the best tools period. I went the best tools period route a couple years ago, but truth be told, I use them the same way I did on my DIY jig made out of 2x4 blocks and water pipe, etc and with my cheaper bent-plate-steel serving jigs before I bought my new stuff. I just go by experience and feel and the outcome is really pretty much the same fairly decent strings.....

lee


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## Terrace bulls

I am wondering what I might be doing wrong here. Some strings when I take them off the jig and am done look like this with the twist not tight.
Others look like the twist is never going to separate.


----------



## automan26

Without being there to watch, my best guess is that there is a difference between the way the two strings were burnished....Especially if you are using Fury. Burnishing locks (sometimes almost welds) the individual strands together. Different burnishing tensions could easily result in what you are seeing, but that's just my best guess from only seeing the pictures.

Automan


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## Terrace bulls

Ok thanks. I was wondering if that might be it. As far as the structure goes should the one that looks loose be alright

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## automan26

It will probably be fine.

Automan


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## caspian

nestly said:


> Actually, the tension on a typical compound bowstring is WELL under 20 pounds when the bow is at full draw....


at full draw the string has the d-loop pulling it straight, so this is the least of your worries.

all I said was don't worry about what the string does when completely relaxed, because that doesn't happen in actual use.


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## nestly

Understood, but if the D-Loop was a cure for peep rotation issues, then peep rotation wouldn't be something we talk about as string builders.. I was simply pointing out that strings are under very little tension at full draw because of some comments suggesting that string rotation between 0 and 100 pounds doesn't matter, when in reality, that's the tension range when peep rotation issues do occur.


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## NP Archery

nestly said:


> Understood, but if the D-Loop was a cure for peep rotation issues, then peep rotation wouldn't be something we talk about as string builders.. I was simply pointing out that strings are under very little tension at full draw because of some comments suggesting that string rotation between 0 and 100 pounds doesn't matter, when in reality, that's the tension range when peep rotation issues do occur.


I agree with you ....

Yes...the string has very little tension on it at FD. Yes.... the D-loop does not cure rotation on the draw cycle.

However....the rotation I see on a string in the #0-#100 range the first few times I relax the tension on my stretcher does not result in any peep rotation once the string is installed on the bow. After a few minutes of relax time most of my strings will show almost no rotation in the #0-#100 range on the stretcher. 

As stated in a post above, we have all seen a peep installed on a bow that seems like it "unwinds" as it is relaxed in a press yet is rock solid during the draw cycle. How can that be? 

On the other hand....in my experiences......anymore than a little bit of rotation on the stretcher in the #200 - #400 range will almost always translate to some degree of peep rotation once installed on a bow and no amount of relaxing or stretch time seems to remedy the issue. 

The rotating peep has been discussed and dissected here too many times to count. We all have a theory as to what causes it and most builders have found a recipe that will eliminate it from their finished product.

Other than the clockwise/counterclockwise puzzle, it may be the most entertaining part of this string building section.


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## gpscoqn

Im making a crossbow string and want to double serve the Center Serving. I intend to serve halo .14 first, then angel majesty .21 on top of the halo .14

Have a few questions:

Are both servings applied with the twists? or 


Does the first serving go against the twists and the second with the twist?


Which serving should be longer? the first or second? said another way. Should the second serving totally cover the first serving or vise versa?

Thank You!!!!!


----------



## caspian

nestly said:


> Understood, but if the D-Loop was a cure for peep rotation issues, then peep rotation wouldn't be something we talk about as string builders


I didn't say it was a cure. I pointed out that the concerns over string tension at full draw are not worth worrying about.

we stretch strings at far higher tensions than they will see in actual duty because it means they will be stable in the critical range we want. you'll never get perfectly linear rotation over the entire tension range from slack to whatever poundage you peak at unless every single strand is at identical tension, and the serving tension is perfect over the entire length of the string.

nobody is that good, the reality is that we build strings to have very little rotation as tension varies, and the d-loop takes the rest out naturally.


----------



## SamT

gpscoqn said:


> Im making a crossbow string and want to double serve the Center Serving. I intend to serve halo .14 first, then angel majesty .21 on top of the halo .14
> 
> Have a few questions:
> 
> Are both servings applied with the twists? or
> 
> 
> Does the first serving go against the twists and the second with the twist?
> 
> 
> Which serving should be longer? the first or second? said another way. Should the second serving totally cover the first serving or vise versa?
> 
> Thank You!!!!!


Gps, not sure what the concensus answer will be but this is what I did. I served the bottom layer with Halo .014 in a clockwise direction as I layer down the serving. Then I swapped the string ends around, because I'm more comfortable serving clockwise from my right to my left, to serve the top layer of .021 angel majesty. The top layer served up and over the underlayer by about ten wraps on each end.

I'm definitely not set in my method should there be some better advice, but that is how I did it.


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## gpscoqn

Thank You Sam

So if Im Understanding this correctly. both servings are served clockwise with the twists of the string??


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## SamT

Correct, that's the way I did it. Served both clockwise the same as string, but from each end so to overlap in two directions. 

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## Terrace bulls

Thanks again for all you guys who have put info on here. Makes it easier to get going on building strings. I have a question about end loop sizes. Is there a standard size for all the loops? thanks


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## Terrace bulls

Also I have been getting my string material from Lancaster but am wanting to start ordering from the guys on here who are helping to understand string building. Have heard I can order from deezlin but don't know name of his business or how to order.


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## skynight

Terrace bulls said:


> Also I have been getting my string material from Lancaster but am wanting to start ordering from the guys on here who are helping to understand string building. Have heard I can order from deezlin but don't know name of his business or how to order.


Deezlin retired but there is a new member selling his jigs and string material. I think they advertise in the classifieds.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4503425


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## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> Thanks again for all you guys who have put info on here. Makes it easier to get going on building strings. I have a question about end loop sizes. Is there a standard size for all the loops? thanks


Unfortunately no. That's one of the annoying things about string building that you just have to have hands on experience for. Some bows have bigger cam posts and some have smaller. Some if you get the loops too big, they will get too deep into the cam track and will begin to wear prematurely. Obviously if you make them too small they won't fit on the post.

As a general rule of thumb, 3/4-1" loop on the yoke end of a buss cable and 5/8" on string and cable ends will do 90% of bows. I've heard the new Martins require as small of a loop as you can make. Some Mathews bows require a slightly larger string loop because of big and often times sharp edged cam posts. 

As you start building for your own stuff, you'll get an idea of a good size that you like. I'd suggest that when you go to a shop or shoot with buddies that you pay attention to the factory string details like this. Most of the time you can't get your hands on the factory blueprints for strings so getting things right is a matter of paying attention to what is on the bow from the factory.


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## skynight

Huntinsker said:


> Unfortunately no. That's one of the annoying things about string building that you just have to have hands on experience for. Some bows have bigger cam posts and some have smaller. Some if you get the loops too big, they will get too deep into the cam track and will begin to wear prematurely. Obviously if you make them too small they won't fit on the post.
> 
> As a general rule of thumb, 3/4-1" loop on the yoke end of a buss cable and 5/8" on string and cable ends will do 90% of bows. I've heard the new Martins require as small of a loop as you can make. Some Mathews bows require a slightly larger string loop because of big and often times sharp edged cam posts.
> 
> As you start building for your own stuff, you'll get an idea of a good size that you like. I'd suggest that when you go to a shop or shoot with buddies that you pay attention to the factory string details like this. Most of the time you can't get your hands on the factory blueprints for strings so getting things right is a matter of paying attention to what is on the bow from the factory.


I assume you are measuring completed loops. When I serve loops on my three post jig I measure them as linear served sections. I use deezlin's recommended lengths and they are 1.75" to 2.5" depending on application. I don't have my notes with me but can look them up when I get home in a few days. Some of that served loop is of course served over by the end servings.


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## Huntinsker

Yes I'm referring to the finished loop. I measure from the outside of the post to where the serving closes the loop.


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## Terrace bulls

Thanks for the advice. I have noticed that as I make my strings I am learning with each twist and turn. I made a buss cable and had to redo it as the loops were little small. Same with a control cable for my hoyt. I made it a little long as I made the first one to specs and I ended up letting alot of twists out so I built it just a touch long but ended up having to put more twists in and it started lapping over itself so......... I finally got it on my third try. 

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## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> Thanks for the advice. I have noticed that as I make my strings I am learning with each twist and turn. I made a buss cable and had to redo it as the loops were little small. Same with a control cable for my hoyt. I made it a little long as I made the first one to specs and I ended up letting alot of twists out so I built it just a touch long but ended up having to put more twists in and it started lapping over itself so......... I finally got it on my third try.
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6820 using Tapatalk


That's another thing you'll find. Some companies advertised string specs are crap. Mathews is the worst and Hoyt always has the buss cable too long and the control cable too short. That's why you see a lot of Hoyt bows with really twisted up buss cables and few twists in the control cables. On your own stuff, it's best to tune the bow, measure your set and build to your personal specs. None of my bows or my families bows have factory lengths on them. They all sport our own custom lengths to get the bow to shoot how we want. 

If you're making a Hoyt for someone else, 1/8-1/4" short on the buss and 1/8" long on the control seems to get you closer. On a Mathews, it's kind of a crap shoot, especially the single cams. 1/4" short on the buss cable is a must at least but each one seems to be different. Here's a little short story about my buddy's z7 that I built a set for and what it took to get it to spec. Illustrates how far off some of the advertised specs can be. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2568737&page=2&highlight=buddy's


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## JF from VA

Huntinsker said:


> That's another thing you'll find. Some companies advertised string specs are crap. Mathews is the worst and Hoyt always has the buss cable too long and the control cable too short. That's why you see a lot of Hoyt bows with really twisted up buss cables and few twists in the control cables. On your own stuff, it's best to tune the bow, measure your set and build to your personal specs. None of my bows or my families bows have factory lengths on them. They all sport our own custom lengths to get the bow to shoot how we want.
> 
> If you're making a Hoyt for someone else, 1/8-1/4" short on the buss and 1/8" long on the control seems to get you closer. On a Mathews, it's kind of a crap shoot, especially the single cams. 1/4" short on the buss cable is a must at least but each one seems to be different. Here's a little short story about my buddy's z7 that I built a set for and what it took to get it to spec. Illustrates how far off some of the advertised specs can be. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2568737&page=2&highlight=buddy's


Glad you brought this up. I just made strings and cables for a Hoyt and had to add mega twists to the buss to get it right. I think next time, I will take your advice and make it shorter.


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## Binary cam man

JF from VA said:


> Glad you brought this up. I just made strings and cables for a Hoyt and had to add mega twists to the buss to get it right. I think next time, I will take your advice and make it shorter.


Now that you have the bow in tune,take the strings off and measure them. Write the specs down and build a set to that spec. Should be perfect! By the way, thanks HUSTINSKER you taught me well.


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## Coug09

I have found newer Mathews two cams run a little long. 1/16" consistently

Here's my last set I built for a buddy 











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## Coug09

Do you guys burnish your Fury in 1/4 bundles or just the finished product? There's such little wax, I get a rounder finished string by burnishing the entire bundle after twisting but usually do it the other way. BCY materials definitely require doing 4-6 strands at a time


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## automan26

I have done it both ways and I think I get better results, especially when using Fury, when I wait until the end and burnish everything together at the same time. If you burnish one color at a time there is a very slightly increased chance that you will end up with those nasty bumps that seem to plague is from time to time.

Automan


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## BlindBuck

Fury I burnish after twisting. It has extremely low wax content from my experience. I seem to get a much nicer bundle when doing it this way.

452x I burnished six strands at a time. BCY does offer low wax content spools.

Anymore I only build with Fury and just use my BCY material for experimenting. Fury is just so much nicer to build with IMHO. Now I do see BCY has released Mercury which "might" be great to build with also. I'll be waiting for the dust to settle with that material though.

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## caspian

I have entirely given up burnishing before twisting. it has eliminated my problem with bumps using X. pretty sure it was on automan26's advice quite a few pages back, thank you for that.

Coug09 - like the purple and black colour scheme, I did the same for my matte black C4 recently.


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## Huntinsker

I still "dewax" half the bundle at a time before twisting but when I do, I then separate the strands from one another so when I twist and actually burnish, it's a nice round bundle. I never actually burnish before twisting. Just one swipe up or down and that's it.


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## Terrace bulls

Huntinsker said:


> I still "dewax" half the bundle at a time before twisting but when I do, I then separate the strands from one another so when I twist and actually burnish, it's a nice round bundle. I never actually burnish before twisting. Just one swipe up or down and that's it.


I was wondering if you could explain this a little more. Not sure what you are saying about separating the strands from one another. When I dewax I am still using the spacers splitting the bundle so I have four little bundles. But if there is a better way I am interested. Also all I have used is bcyx in my short time building.


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## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> I was wondering if you could explain this a little more. Not sure what you are saying about separating the strands from one another. When I dewax I am still using the spacers splitting the bundle so I have four little bundles. But if there is a better way I am interested. Also all I have used is bcyx in my short time building.


When you "dewax" the strands can stick together. I just pull them back apart so they aren't squeezed into a "mini bundle". That way when I twist and burnish, the bundle is still nice and round rather than looking like it has 2 lobes if you will.


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## K.G.K.

I dont mean b to hijack the momentum of this topic (great by the way), but I need to make strings for a Halon and I'm a little unclear on how to make the cable that attaches to the clearance rings.

The twist looks different and not clear how to attach them. 

Do you put the rings on the post and stretch / build them right on the rings? Would they likley break when stretched?

If this has been covered already could someone direct me to the right page?

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> I dont mean b to hijack the momentum of this topic (great by the way), but I need to make strings for a Halon and I'm a little unclear on how to make the cable that attaches to the clearance rings.
> 
> The twist looks different and not clear how to attach them.
> 
> Do you put the rings on the post and stretch / build them right on the rings? Would they likley break when stretched?
> 
> If this has been covered already could someone direct me to the right page?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


There's some discussion on that topic on starting on page 193 starting on post #4809.


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## Fisharcher

Looking for Halon X Comp string specs. Anyone out there with this information? Thanks in advance


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## mattafliving

Fisharcher said:


> Looking for Halon X Comp string specs. Anyone out there with this information? Thanks in advance


Check on the the string builders sticky for string specs. 


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## Huntinsker

Fisharcher said:


> Looking for Halon X Comp string specs. Anyone out there with this information? Thanks in advance


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## Fisharcher

Awesome - Thank you


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## Coug09

K.G.K. said:


> I dont mean b to hijack the momentum of this topic (great by the way), but I need to make strings for a Halon and I'm a little unclear on how to make the cable that attaches to the clearance rings.
> 
> The twist looks different and not clear how to attach them.
> 
> Do you put the rings on the post and stretch / build them right on the rings? Would they likley break when stretched?
> 
> If this has been covered already could someone direct me to the right page?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Just make them using a 2 post. 

Set posts to 13" and depending on material make them 10-14 wraps. With the serving, in my experience it needs to measure .107 or under to fit into the plastic pieces. Once you lay out and serve 4-9", stretch at usual # for 15-20 min. Once removing them from jig you can twist each end slightly to help keep it in the AVS rings


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## Terrace bulls

Been reading about some guys using clear serving. Do they actually make clear serving or do you have to serve a color tighter than usual?.
Thanks


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## Coug09

Terrace bulls said:


> Been reading about some guys using clear serving. Do they actually make clear serving or do you have to serve a color tighter than usual?.
> Thanks


The white halo turns clear under tension


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## Terrace bulls

Ok thanks. 

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## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> Been reading about some guys using clear serving. Do they actually make clear serving or do you have to serve a color tighter than usual?.
> Thanks


Any white serving will turn clear under tension. Bullwhip gets a little clearer than Halo as far as braided materials. 3D can get very clear as well. BCY just came out with a new serving clarifier too which, by all reports, is very good at clearing the serving ever further.


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## bahne

Awesome DIY.


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## dwagoner

Huntinsker said:


> Any white serving will turn clear under tension. Bullwhip gets a little clearer than Halo as far as braided materials. 3D can get very clear as well. BCY just came out with a new serving clarifier too which, by all reports, is very good at clearing the serving ever further.


you dont need any clarifier... if you serve properly they get as clear as the material can... Halo is little more clear than 3D....


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## dwagoner

Coug09 said:


> I have found newer Mathews two cams run a little long. 1/16" consistently


1/16" is nothing...thats 1 twist in a string .....


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## Coug09

dwagoner said:


> you dont need any clarifier... if you serve properly they get as clear as the material can... Halo is little more clear than 3D....


The clarifier is really good and does help. It really turns it even more clear


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## Huntinsker

dwagoner said:


> you dont need any clarifier... if you serve properly they get as clear as the material can... Halo is little more clear than 3D....


Who let you back on this site anyway? Thought you got a permanent vacation.

Of course you don't "need" clarifier but it DOES turn it more clear. It also allows you to serve with slightly less tension and still get the same clarity. Halo likes to break if served too tightly so being able to back it off a bit but still get it just as clear is nice.


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## automan26

*New day...a new way*

I just got off the phone with both Brownell and BCY regarding some questions about stretching times and stretching tensions. Both companies told me basically the same thing. First, we need to change some of our terminology. We should change the word "stretching" to "pre-loading". The newer materials no longer stretch, but they still need to be placed under tension to allow the strands to get set-in prior to tuning. This minimizes the number of shots it takes to get the sting to a tunable condition. Both companies told me that after about 10 minutes under tension the string is basically done with most of its settling in and after about 30 minutes, the string is basically done. Both companies told me that the newer materials only need 30-45 minutes of time on the stretcher.

As far as how much tension should be applied to the string during preloading, both companies said that the high tensions of the older days (300# and up) are no longer necessary. Both companies said that 250# is more than sufficient with today's fibers.

I was surprised at how much both companies agreed on how to build with the new fibers. Times seem to be changing.

Automan


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## mattafliving

automan26 said:


> I just got off the phone with both Brownell and BCY regarding some questions about stretching times and stretching tensions. Both companies told me basically the same thing. First, we need to change some of our terminology. We should change the word "stretching" to "pre-loading". The newer materials no longer stretch, but they still need to be placed under tension to allow the strands to get set-in prior to tuning. This minimizes the number of shots it takes to get the sting to a tunable condition. Both companies told me that after about 10 minutes under tension the string is basically done with most of its settling in and after about 30 minutes, the string is basically done. Both companies told me that the newer materials only need 30-45 minutes of time on the stretcher.
> 
> As far as how much tension should be applied to the string during preloading, both companies said that the high tensions of the older days (300# and up) are no longer necessary. Both companies said that 250# is more than sufficient with today's fibers.
> 
> I was surprised at how much both companies agreed on how to build with the new fibers. Times seem to be changing.
> 
> Automan


What materials is this in reference to specifically? 


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## automan26

We talked about today's popular materials in general. About the only specific material mentioned was the older Fastflight stuff of years ago that stretched like rubber. I specifically asked both reps if they thought that 250# of tension was sufficient and both implied emphatically that 250# was at least enough and maybe even more than enough to get the job done properly. Both stated that there is no need for the super high tensions and hours of stretching time that has been the custom in the past.

It particularly caught my attention that the new procedures are now referred to pre-loading, not stretching. Strings do elongate under tension, but they are elastic and slowly return to their established lengths when given time to relax, but today's stuff does not stretch out.

I can relate to this due to the fact that I measured two Fury strings with over 30,000 shots on them and they were the exact same length as they were when installed.

Automan


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## SamT

I like the term, "strand-equalization tensioning". But that's just me. LOL!


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## mattafliving

automan26 said:


> We talked about today's popular materials in general. About the only specific material mentioned was the older Fastflight stuff of years ago that stretched like rubber. I specifically asked both reps if they thought that 250# of tension was sufficient and both implied emphatically that 250# was at least enough and maybe even more than enough to get the job done properly. Both stated that there is no need for the super high tensions and hours of stretching time that has been the custom in the past.
> 
> It particularly caught my attention that the new procedures are now referred to pre-loading, not stretching. Strings do elongate under tension, but they are elastic and slowly return to their established lengths when given time to relax, but today's stuff does not stretch out.
> 
> I can relate to this due to the fact that I measured two Fury strings with over 30,000 shots on them and they were the exact same length as they were when installed.
> 
> Automan


Well thanks for taking the time to call them and also share the information with us. I'm sure it will save a lot of people wasted time on the stretchers. 


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## mattafliving

SamT said:


> I like the term, "strand-equalization tensioning". But that's just me. LOL!


Lol


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## SamT

SamT said:


> I like the term, "strand-equalization tensioning". But that's just me. LOL!


Or in today's world, maybe it's call "alternative stretching"! LOL again!


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## skynight

:set1_thinking::set1_thinking:


SamT said:


> I like the term, "strand-equalization tensioning". But that's just me. LOL!


And the old "hyper atomic stabilization".

I'm sure ABB has a bunch of nuclear engineers on staff.


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## Terrace bulls

So I had built a jig different from what was laid out here. It didn't turn out very well so I finally went and got the parts to build the one that was laid out here one thing I'm having a problem with is figuring out how your tensioning the String without twisting the string

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## automan26

It depends on exactly which version of the jig you built. If you built the one in the pic, you would adjust the tension by tightening the outer nut on the head without the spring. (Upper Left) I think, but I could be wrong, that the one Huntinsker featured on page #1 is tensioned using the nut behind the spring.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> It depends on exactly which version of the jig you built. If you built the one in the pic, you would adjust the tension by tightening the outer nut on the head without the spring. (Upper Left) I think, but I could be wrong, that the one Huntinsker featured on page #1 is tensioned using the nut behind the spring.
> 
> Automan





Terrace bulls said:


> So I had built a jig different from what was laid out here. It didn't turn out very well so I finally went and got the parts to build the one that was laid out here one thing I'm having a problem with is figuring out how your tensioning the String without twisting the string
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6820 using Tapatalk


I tension the string by using the nut here. 









You must first loosen the nut closest to the post to let the all thread travel of course. I never touch the sprung end.


----------



## Terrace bulls

Got it. Does the all thread get dinged up pulling it through the plate?

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## Coug09

Question guys, I'm having some issues with peep rotation on an Apex 8 set I build that I've never had before on shorter strings. 

I use the BAP string clamps and try to not serve too tightly but obviously I did. The Apex is bad for separating so maybe I over did it

Also, does it matter for peep rotation on how you split the string. This one is frustrating me. It's a single color so I just split it vertically down thru the two bundles


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## mattafliving

Coug09 said:


> Question guys, I'm having some issues with peep rotation on an Apex 8 set I build that I've never had before on shorter strings.
> 
> I use the BAP string clamps and try to not serve too tightly but obviously I did. The Apex is bad for separating so maybe I over did it
> 
> Also, does it matter for peep rotation on how you split the string. This one is frustrating me. It's a single color so I just split it vertically down thru the two bundles
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not having true center of the string has caused issues for me on peep rotation before. I would try moving a couple strands over to one side of the peep that may look like it has less and see if that helps before you dive into making another set of strings. 


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## mattafliving

Can someone explain the technique of weaving the first portion of a center serving? I have it on my podium and I'm getting ready to build a set of strings for it and I like the way it was done. I feel it really helped prevent the center serving from doing any sliding. 


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## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> Got it. Does the all thread get dinged up pulling it through the plate?
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6820 using Tapatalk


It starts to flatten on the top over time but it doesn't affect it much. The wide threads on the 5/8" all thread can take a lot of abuse before they start to be a problem. Been using mine for a couple years without needing to make a new threaded piece.


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## Huntinsker

Coug09 said:


> Question guys, I'm having some issues with peep rotation on an Apex 8 set I build that I've never had before on shorter strings.
> 
> I use the BAP string clamps and try to not serve too tightly but obviously I did. The Apex is bad for separating so maybe I over did it
> 
> Also, does it matter for peep rotation on how you split the string. This one is frustrating me. It's a single color so I just split it vertically down thru the two bundles
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How many shots did you put through the bow after the install? I like to shoot the bow 20-30 times without a peep to let things settle down and then install the peep. If you've served too tightly, the string will settle down over time. If you have uneven strand tension, it probably will never stop rotating. 

Did you do a single bundle or did you do two bundles of the same color? What was the strand count?


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> Can someone explain the technique of weaving the first portion of a center serving? I have it on my podium and I'm getting ready to build a set of strings for it and I like the way it was done. I feel it really helped prevent the center serving from doing any sliding.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have to be honest but I have no idea what you mean.


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## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> I have to be honest but I have no idea what you mean.


I'll take a picture of it and post it. 


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## skynight

mattafliving said:


> Can someone explain the technique of weaving the first portion of a center serving? I have it on my podium and I'm getting ready to build a set of strings for it and I like the way it was done. I feel it really helped prevent the center serving from doing any sliding.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here's what I do.

Split the string with no tension. Take a long tag end of your center serving material through the center. Wrap around the far bundle and back into center. Bring the tag into the center away from the direction you want to serve the center serving. Now take a wrap around the close bundle, coming back into the center, again on the side away from where you are going to lay down the serving.

Now put 300# tension on the string and clamp in place with string clamps. Lay your tag over the weaving and wrap 5-10 wraps of serving over your tag end. These wraps start at the bottom of the weave, with the tag coming over the weave then under the first serving wraps.

Take your tag and tie a loop in the end. Using a spare piece of string material, tie to that loop. Pull this extended tag to the end of the jig and tie off. This keeps the tag tight so it won't rotate under the serving. Serve your center serving and back serve. Untie the tag end and backserve it right against the center serving's backserve. I do 15 wraps on center serving backserve but only 8-10 with the tag.

Now the full length tag has locked your center serving in place. I use .018 serving for this.

You can also just weave and cut the tag short after 20 wraps or so as per normal.


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## mattafliving

skynight said:


> Here's what I do.
> 
> Split the string with no tension. Take a long tag end of your center serving material through the center. Wrap around the far bundle and back into center. Bring the tag into the center away from the direction you want to serve the center serving. Now take a wrap around the close bundle, coming back into the center, again on the side away from where you are going to lay down the serving.
> 
> Now put 300# tension on the string and clamp in place with string clamps. Lay your tag over the weaving and wrap 5-10 wraps of serving over your tag end. These wraps start at the bottom of the weave, with the tag coming over the weave then under the first serving wraps.
> 
> Take your tag and tie a loop in the end. Using a spare piece of string material, tie to that loop. Pull this extended tag to the end of the jig and tie off. This keeps the tag tight so it won't rotate under the serving. Serve your center serving and back serve. Untie the tag end and backserve it right against the center serving's backserve. I do 15 wraps on center serving backserve but only 8-10 with the tag.
> 
> Now the full length tag has locked your center serving in place. I use .018 serving for this.
> 
> You can also just weave and cut the tag short after 20 wraps or so as per normal.


That's exactly what I was looking for, should keep that center serving super tight and prevent the separation cause my the d loop being tightened up. Thanks for the instructions. 


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## skynight

mattafliving said:


> That's exactly what I was looking for, should keep that center serving super tight and prevent the separation cause my the d loop being tightened up. Thanks for the instructions.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're welcome. When I started using halo for serving material I found I didn't have to tighten the dloop as much. Halo is rough textured and holds the loop without tightening too the point of separation. I suspect powergrip is similar but have never used it.

For some reason the center serving materials recommended when I started are all very slick. I don't get that.


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## Coug09

Huntinsker said:


> Did you do a single bundle or did you do two bundles of the same color? What was the strand count?


24 strands of X and single bundle



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## NP Archery

Coug09 said:


> Question guys, I'm having some issues with peep rotation on an Apex 8 set I build that I've never had before on shorter strings.
> 
> I use the BAP string clamps and try to not serve too tightly but obviously I did. The Apex is bad for separating so maybe I over did it
> 
> Also, does it matter for peep rotation on how you split the string. This one is frustrating me. It's a single color so I just split it vertically down thru the two bundles
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Coug09 said:


> 24 strands of X and single bundle
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I build a ton of single color strings. Try this......

Build a single color string the same as a 2 color one. I do 2 separate bundles as if I'm doing 2 colors. You will have the center for your peep, tags on each end if thats your loop method and you will probably do a better job of getting even tension through out the string during the lay up, twisting and tensioning steps.

I'll also add this..... on those very long strings like the Apex...I add very little pressure to the string before I start the twisting. I like to start at about nothing, just barely snug, and twist from there.


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## Huntinsker

Coug09 said:


> 24 strands of X and single bundle
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do exactly as NP Archery does. I use 2 bundles for single colors. Laying out half has many strands makes it easier to be consistent with the strand tension. It also allows you to pull the tag ends and take the slack out of each half of the bundle which helps to further even the tension throughout the bundle. If you pull the top and bottom tag end on a single endless loop of 24 strands, you may get the top and bottom 5-6 wraps evened out. But that's only half of the bundle. The middle will still be loose. Cut that number in half and now you get the top and bottom 5-6 on a 12 wrap bundle and that's the whole bundle that's evened out.

Obviously this is a little easier to do on a 2 post jig but you can do the same with a 4 post if you tie the tag ends off well enough.

WOW THIS IS POST #5000!!!! Way to keep the great information and discussion going guys and gals! This, in my slightly biased opinion, is the most civil and helpful thread on AT and that's a testament to the great people we have contributing. Well done! :cheers:


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## Hoyt slayer

Built my first set of strings the other day. Started off with my brothers bow since it's binary and won't have to mess with yokes just yet. Timing came out perfect with no twists. Took 6 shots to set nock height and then put peep in and it had zero rotation. Super thankful for those that have put this thread together and demonstrated how easy it can be. Only flae was had a little bit of fuzz on my tag ends so will need to do some sanding and polishing of my posts before the next set. Pic is pre burnished. Forgot to take a finished picture









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## Huntinsker

Hoyt slayer said:


> Built my first set of strings the other day. Started off with my brothers bow since it's binary and won't have to mess with yokes just yet. Timing came out perfect with no twists. Took 6 shots to set nock height and then put peep in and it had zero rotation. Super thankful for those that have put this thread together and demonstrated how easy it can be. Only flae was had a little bit of fuzz on my tag ends so will need to do some sanding and polishing of my posts before the next set. Pic is pre burnished. Forgot to take a finished picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


That's an outstanding result for your first set! Congratulations!!!


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## automan26

I just noticed that Huntinsker posted the 5000th post on this thread. That is very fitting because he was the one with the initiative to get this thread rolling in the first place. ThanX buddy, I, and many others, have learned a ton.

Automan


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## SamT

^^^^^X a ton!


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## Coug09

I'm using a 4 post and actually made a "mini string" that I hook onto one side of my jig and put tension on it to even out the tension and also helps for serving


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## Huntinsker

Coug09 said:


> I'm using a 4 post and actually made a "mini string" that I hook onto one side of my jig and put tension on it to even out the tension and also helps for serving
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do the same when using my 4 post set up.


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## Terrace bulls

Can one of you post a pic of the mini string putting tension on the strands?
Thanks
And yes thanks a ton for all the info on this thread. This is great.

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## BlindBuck

automan26 said:


> I just noticed that Huntinsker posted the 5000th post on this thread. That is very fitting because he was the one with the initiative to get this thread rolling in the first place. ThanX buddy, I, and many others, have learned a ton.
> 
> Automan


^^^^ Best thread by far on AT!

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## mattafliving

Terrace bulls said:


> Can one of you post a pic of the mini string putting tension on the strands?
> Thanks
> And yes thanks a ton for all the info on this thread. This is great.
> 
> Sent from my KYOCERA-E6820 using Tapatalk












This is a screen shot from a video done by butch baker on youtube. I'll put the link below so you can see how he does it. 

https://youtu.be/baDyjaApRco



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## mattafliving

I didn't know it would actually add the video. That's cool! 


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## zotparkerm

Time to join in!
I've been watching for a while, built me a jig with scrap yard parts (result is overkill threaded rod with huge nuts - I think my jig can stand way more than the super strut).
I am building my first set of strings and after serving one of the cables (and the serving looks pretty good) it occurred to me that I had not really consciously set the serving jig to a specific tension.
I have tried to search for values to use for serving jig tension. Either I don't know how to get "serving+jig+tension" to return less than 20 pages of results, or nobody has asked, or it doesnt matter.
Has anyone who has successfully build many sets of threads put their jig on a scale and seen what tension they are serving with?
Thanks


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## zotparkerm

Found it! Never Mind.
Deezlin's bounce back method or 8-9lb tension for ends, 9-10 for center.
Will be experimenting.


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## K.G.K.

Can someone direct me to the string / Serving recipe for a Halon?

I have to make a set for a friend and wasn't sure how many strands for string and cables are preferred. 

Using 452 x with .014 halo Serving and 62x center.

Is there a better place to get this info? Love this thread!
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Can someone direct me to the string / Serving recipe for a Halon?
> 
> I have to make a set for a friend and wasn't sure how many strands for string and cables are preferred.
> 
> Using 452 x with .014 halo Serving and 62x center.
> 
> Is there a better place to get this info? Love this thread!
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Arrows & Strings forum in the sticky thread at the top. Should have the serving specs for all models by now.


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## K.G.K.

Thanks!

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## Hoyt slayer

End loops from a recent build as well as my next project for my soon arriving evolve 35









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## automan26

Very nice. Those threads look very clean. Great Job.


Automan


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## rdary794

Following

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## K.G.K.

automan26 said:


> It depends on exactly which version of the jig you built. If you built the one in the pic, you would adjust the tension by tightening the outer nut on the head without the spring. (Upper Left) I think, but I could be wrong, that the one Huntinsker featured on page #1 is tensioned using the nut behind the spring.
> 
> Automan


I havent checked in in a while. I like the spring set up on the picture in this post. Is this a new design?

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## K.G.K.

I like the looks of this, if the spring side of my jig leans forward the threaded rod can get hung up and the spring won't compress. Trying to figure out how to fix this. Maybe a larger diameter hole for the threaded rod?

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## automan26

K.G.K. said:


> View attachment 5613321
> 
> I like the looks of this, if the spring side of my jig leans forward the threaded rod can get hung up and the spring won't compress. Trying to figure out how to fix this. Maybe a larger diameter hole for the threaded rod?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


If the hole supporting the threaded rod is too snug, the rod will bind up in the hole just like you described. Make the hole sloppy-big and grind a healthy bevel in both sides of the hole. If you look at the instructions in the PowerPoint in my signature you will find a pic of how sloppy I make my holes. You may also be able to correct your problem by adjusting the height of the eye bolt on the spring side. Adjust it a bit lower so that the threaded rod stays pretty much level or even tilts up slightly on the post end when the jig is under tension.

If you look at the jig in the pic you can notice that the outside of the threaded rod is a bit lower than the inside. This offsets the tendency to bind.

Automan


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## K.G.K.

Great, thank you! 

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## highwaynorth

Huntinsker said:


> That's another thing you'll find. Some companies advertised string specs are crap. Mathews is the worst and Hoyt always has the buss cable too long and the control cable too short. That's why you see a lot of Hoyt bows with really twisted up buss cables and few twists in the control cables. On your own stuff, it's best to tune the bow, measure your set and build to your personal specs. None of my bows or my families bows have factory lengths on them. They all sport our own custom lengths to get the bow to shoot how we want.
> 
> If you're making a Hoyt for someone else, 1/8-1/4" short on the buss and 1/8" long on the control seems to get you closer. On a Mathews, it's kind of a crap shoot, especially the single cams. 1/4" short on the buss cable is a must at least but each one seems to be different. Here's a little short story about my buddy's z7 that I built a set for and what it took to get it to spec. Illustrates how far off some of the advertised specs can be. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2568737&page=2&highlight=buddy's


I just made a set of strings and cables for a Hoyt Ultra mag xt2000. I built the buss and control cables to the specs listed on the limbs.
The buss and the control cable both needed to be shortened about a 1/4". The string was right on. Once they were twisted up
all of the bow specs fell right into place and the cam sync was spot on.


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## mattafliving

First string complete! 


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## Huntinsker

Looking good!


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## mattafliving

So I did the above using BCYx and BCY 3D. Now if I were to use .007 halo for the end loop serving and then .014 halo for the end serving I could expect more clarity and a better transition? I'm super happy with the look of the string just not the transition on to the end loop.


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> So I did the above using BCYx and BCY 3D. Now if I were to use .007 halo for the end loop serving and then .014 halo for the end serving I could expect more clarity and a better transition? I'm super happy with the look of the string just not the transition on to the end loop.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe, maybe not. 3d gets pretty clear when served tightly. Halo does to but, IMO, 3d is easier to get clear. If you use a clarifier, that will help. Not sure if you did this but one thing to make sure to do when you're serving loops, is to not have the loop serving ends meet together where they loop closes. Make sure you have one side longer so that they step up a bit at a time. It will help also to have the smaller loop serving diameter so you're not trying to serve over such a large transition to begin with. Good work for the first none the less.


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## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> Maybe, maybe not. 3d gets pretty clear when served tightly. Halo does to but, IMO, 3d is easier to get clear. If you use a clarifier, that will help. Not sure if you did this but one thing to make sure to do when you're serving loops, is to not have the loop serving ends meet together where they loop closes. Make sure you have one side longer so that they step up a bit at a time. It will help also to have the smaller loop serving diameter so you're not trying to serve over such a large transition to begin with. Good work for the first none the less.


How much of an offset would I have on the serving to help with the transition? Also is there standard for how much to serve the end loop? 


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## Huntinsker

Most cam end loops need to be 5/8" or slightly larger. Yoke ends need to be 3/4-1" on most bows but Xpedition has one large axle bushing that requires 1 1/4" I believe. The other can be 3/4-1". Just need to serve enough to have that sided loop and for the overlap. How much of a offset is up to your personal preference but it doesn't have to be a lot. 1/8-3/16" should be plenty. Just have to find what works best for you. You don't want to have a really long offset so that the body of the cable begins to bulk up, especially since cam groves are getting closer and closer to the cam posts for some reason. Some are so close anymore that the dang loop is almost in the cam groove now.


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## Coug09

The .007 halo is very nice for endloops. I've been building for a couple months now and trying new things all the time. A clarifier really helps and BCYs new clarifier is really nice




















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## mattafliving

Coug09 said:


> The .007 halo is very nice for endloops. I've been building for a couple months now and trying new things all the time. A clarifier really helps and BCYs new clarifier is really nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Those look super smooth. Where do you purchase the clarifier? Also how long do you serve your end loops on the 4 post before bringing them together? 


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## Coug09

mattafliving said:


> Those look super smooth. Where do you purchase the clarifier? Also how long do you serve your end loops on the 4 post before bringing them together?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All the sets in the picture are for Mathews bows except one set. The newer Mathews bows have larger posts. I serve the endloops 1 1/8" on both sides of center and then serve towards the posts, making my total loop 13/16-7/8 (once again, big posts). 5/8-3/4" loops are more of the norm


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## mattafliving

Ok so I got another string on the stretcher. Hoping the end loops will look better this time. I order some .007 halo but in the mean time I picked up some braided spectra fishing line.








I think I may have done the end loops a little to tight though cause it caused the pin stripe to not be even when I transferred from the 4 post to the stretcher. Tried pulling out the pin stripe with a scrap string material but couldn't get it to come to the surface. 

Will this issue of serving the end loops too tight cause any other issues? 


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## caspian

if you serve the end loops too tight it causes windup in the string you need to tease out afterwards. I use a 3-post jig so I need to swap ends and it's something I work hard to avoid, easier than fixing it.


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## Huntinsker

That's something I've wondered about when I see other builders doing the same. When you use clear serving and have the end loops twisted under the serving, that obviously causes the strand lay out to be messed up in the body of the string. Not really sure how they get the stuff to lay nicely under the serving other than maybe they just don't do clear serving so you can't see it. This is one reason why I've avoided going to served loops and just keep using my 2 post jig while my 4 post is used only for endless loop recurve strings. I'll do some investigating and try to find out what others do.


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## skynight

I have never built a pinstripe string but 2 color strings will twist under the servings as well. I use a 3 post and serve loops under 200# tension. They still twist, so I put a finish nail across the posts between the bundles. I posted a pic a few thousand posts ago. It helps.

Post 3343


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## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> I have never built a pinstripe string but 2 color strings will twist under the servings as well. I use a 3 post and serve loops under 200# tension. They still twist, so I put a finish nail across the posts between the bundles. I posted a pic a few thousand posts ago. It helps.
> 
> Post 3343


I do the same but with a golf tee. Still seems to happen. Maybe I'm over thinking it but when I go to the trouble of building a nice string, I'd like them to look good too and pinstripes that don't lay properly don't look good. I'll do some more questioning of other builders and some work on my own and see what I can't come up with for a work around.


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## mattafliving

I'm OCD about most things I build so not having the strands line up drives me crazy. Big thanks for the advise from others yesterday.







end loops improved apron greatly 


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## OspreyZB

Tagged


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## mattafliving

Does anyone else find the beiter heavy to be to much for lighter tension areas. 


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## Sinister01

mattafliving said:


> Does anyone else find the beiter heavy to be to much for lighter tension areas.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do, I like a lighter jig for doing my end loops. might just be in my head but I don't know. 
my last set I have pics of...


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## mgrahamcracker9

inspired me to make my own! thanks


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## lunghit

I have been building with 24 strands of BCY X and always used .018 center serving with my Gold Tip nocks for a perfect fit. I have some Mercury on order and will be using 32 strands for my new bow. My question is does anyone know if I should jump up to .021 center serving for the smaller strand size of the Mercury? Curious if anyone has done some experimenting with Mercury yet. Thanks


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> I have been building with 24 strands of BCY X and always used .018 center serving with my Gold Tip nocks for a perfect fit. I have some Mercury on order and will be using 32 strands for my new bow. My question is does anyone know if I should jump up to .021 center serving for the smaller strand size of the Mercury? Curious if anyone has done some experimenting with Mercury yet. Thanks


I use 28 strands of Fury and .018" Powergrip to fit my GT HD pin nocks. By the accounts that I know of, Mercury is maybe a little smaller so if you go 32 and .018", you should be fine as it will give you about the same fit.


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## lunghit

Thanks good to know. I will update when it arrives and I get it built up.


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## mattafliving

MY first full set came out really nice. Thanks to all of you who have made such an awesome resource for string building. 


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## automan26

I love the solid color cables. Nice touch and great job.

Automan


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## Midlife Crisis

First, thanks to Automan and Huntinsker for sharing all this information. I completed my jig about 18 months ago, but life sorta got in the way of putting it to use. And my bow is so dialed in right now that even though the string and cables are 3 years old I don’t want to change them out until after a spring bear hunt.

But I have caught up on all the posts and looked over the PowerPoint slide show and have a couple questions for our leaders. 

1.	When building a split yoke cable, the instructions are to remove the yoke ends from the post, untwist them, and then twist each individual yoke end by the number of twists you removed in order to separate them. I guess if your bow (eg BowTech 340) comes with one side of the yoke not twisted you should keep that side fairly straight and not twist it up much until after checking for cam timing and lean? 

2.	I have an inventory of 8 strand Spectra line in varying diameters. Should I junk it and buy 4-strand material to use instead?

3.	If I use mineral oil as a clarifier, will it (or for that matter baby oil or WD40) weaken/harm the fibers of the serving or string (figuring a string and cable set should last at least 2 years)?

4.	How long after you make a string and cable set can it sit on a shelf and still be good to go?

Thanks,
Tom


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## Huntinsker

Midlife Crisis said:


> First, thanks to Automan and Huntinsker for sharing all this information. I completed my jig about 18 months ago, but life sorta got in the way of putting it to use. And my bow is so dialed in right now that even though the string and cables are 3 years old I don’t want to change them out until after a spring bear hunt.
> 
> But I have caught up on all the posts and looked over the PowerPoint slide show and have a couple questions for our leaders.
> 
> 1.	When building a split yoke cable, the instructions are to remove the yoke ends from the post, untwist them, and then twist each individual yoke end by the number of twists you removed in order to separate them. I guess if your bow (eg BowTech 340) comes with one side of the yoke not twisted you should keep that side fairly straight and not twist it up much until after checking for cam timing and lean?
> 
> 2.	I have an inventory of 8 strand Spectra line in varying diameters. Should I junk it and buy 4-strand material to use instead?
> 
> 3.	If I use mineral oil as a clarifier, will it (or for that matter baby oil or WD40) weaken/harm the fibers of the serving or string (figuring a string and cable set should last at least 2 years)?
> 
> 4.	How long after you make a string and cable set can it sit on a shelf and still be good to go?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom


I've slightly changed my process for buss cables. I no longer remove all the twists and then count them back in. Instead, I know that with the length that I build my yoke legs, usually 7-8" depending on the bow, and my chosen twist rate, adding 3 twists to each leg after I untwist them from each other will make the cable come out on the correct length. Then when installing them on the bow, I usually end up taking a couple out of the left and adding a couple to the right, for a right handed bow, to get the cam lean correct. Of course tuning dictates the correct amount for each.

As far as the 8 strand braid, I wouldn't completely junk it. It works very well for roller guards and would work just fine for string ends. It's a little slick for cable ends though. 

Dyneema, Vectran and Spectra and other HMPE materials are essentially impervious to organic compounds like mineral oil or even acetone.

Strings can sit in a package for a good long while without an issue. Be sure to keep it out of the sunlight and you should be fine for several years.


----------



## huntn4fun

Very informative thread. Would love to give string building a shot.


----------



## Midlife Crisis

Huntinsker,

Many thank for your quick answers. I will get started building in a couple weeks (test strings first). 

I was thrilled to find a neat post on DIY draw boards showing how I can use my Super Strut channels as the foundation to a draw board. That will allow me to dismantle my old setup and save some space. I just wish I'd seen it 4 years earlier. However, that's progress in the DIY arena!


----------



## caspian

mattafliving said:


> Does anyone else find the beiter heavy to be to much for lighter tension areas.


definitely. the weight is not a benefit with tension set lightly. I used to think they were the bomb but experience has taught the standard jig with the stainless rollers has more than enough mass for most work.


----------



## mattafliving

caspian said:


> definitely. the weight is not a benefit with tension set lightly. I used to think they were the bomb but experience has taught the standard jig with the stainless rollers has more than enough mass for most work.


I was looking at the stainless rollers and wondering about the benefits behind them. Is there anything else about them that makes the superior? With the amount of different servings that could get kinda expensive. 


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## nflook765

I figure this is as good of place to ask my question as any...

I've got a nice set of custom strings that came on a Prime Rize I recently purchased. I'm not a fan of where the serving on the cables stops in relation to the roller guard. I would like to extend the serving about 2" on both cables so it doesn't end so close to where it contacts the roller. One serving is actually starting to separate. I'm wondering if I can just cut the current serving and reserve while on the bow or if I would have to pull the cables off, put them under tension somehow and then reserve?

I'm thinking since its the cables and not the string I should be good to go? Especially since the area I'm serving is not connected to the end servings in any way. It is a completely separate piece of serving to protect the string from the rollers?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## mattafliving

nflook765 said:


> I figure this is as good of place to ask my question as any...
> 
> I've got a nice set of custom strings that came on a Prime Rize I recently purchased. I'm not a fan of where the serving on the cables stops in relation to the roller guard. I would like to extend the serving about 2" on both cables so it doesn't end so close to where it contacts the roller. One serving is actually starting to separate. I'm wondering if I can just cut the current serving and reserve while on the bow or if I would have to pull the cables off, put them under tension somehow and then reserve?
> 
> I'm thinking since its the cables and not the string I should be good to go? Especially since the area I'm serving is not connected to the end servings in any way. It is a completely separate piece of serving to protect the string from the rollers?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


People redo their center serving all of the time while installed on the bow. I don't see why you couldn't do this with your cables. You'll just need something to provide you clearance from the other cable and string. Serving under higher tension would be the preferred method though. 


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## nflook765

mattafliving said:


> People redo their center serving all of the time while installed on the bow. I don't see why you couldn't do this with your cables. You'll just need something to provide you clearance from the other cable and string. Serving under higher tension would be the preferred method though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I thought of having to pull the other cable out of the way somehow as well.


----------



## nuts&bolts

nflook765 said:


> I thought of having to pull the other cable out of the way somehow as well.


https://www.amazon.com/Bohning-Self-Serve-Cable-Spreader/dp/B001F0IAGU


----------



## caspian

mattafliving said:


> I was looking at the stainless rollers and wondering about the benefits behind them. Is there anything else about them that makes the superior? With the amount of different servings that could get kinda expensive.


they don't groove like the plastic ones do after repeated abrasion under tension.

the difference is about $8. I've got 6 jigs which is probably more than most people and I've got $50 in the lot of them.


----------



## highwaynorth

nuts&bolts said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Bohning-Self-Serve-Cable-Spreader/dp/B001F0IAGU


I don't think this is going to help for serving the roller guard area of the buss cables.
I would remove the cables and stretch them tight with a ratchet strap or something
unless you have access to a string jig / stretcher.


----------



## caspian

roller guards are a challenge. but so are bows like my C4 which has a slide rod which refuses to move. I ended up hand serving the last 2" of that one when I redid the centre serving.


----------



## Terrace bulls

Could someone help me with figuring out strand count for string and cables for a compound bow? Is there a formula that is used for the different materials? Specifically I am using bcyx material. How to determine number of strands for string? Number of strands for cables?


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## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> Could someone help me with figuring out strand count for string and cables for a compound bow? Is there a formula that is used for the different materials? Specifically I am using bcyx material. How to determine number of strands for string? Number of strands for cables?


Using the search function at the top right of the page will help greatly when using this thread. Almost every thing you'd ever think to ask has been discussed at some point in here. 

To answer the question though, 24 strands of X on the string and 26-28 on the cables. I've seen where some guys use 24 strands all around on some smaller groove cams like Elite and Bowtech though.


----------



## Jabr357

Huntinsker said:


> Using the search function at the top right of the page will help greatly when using this thread. Almost every thing you'd ever think to ask has been discussed at some point in here.
> 
> To answer the question though, 24 strands of X on the string and 26-28 on the cables. I've seen where some guys use 24 strands all around on some smaller groove cams like Elite and Bowtech though.


Great advise Huntinsker.

I have a question about the yoke cables strand count - It cannot be 26? as you need to divide it by 4 and I don't know how to do 6 1/2 strands - has to be 24 or 28.

PS. is there another method to do yoke cables other than this process (for served loops - not tag ends):

1) On a four post setup, double the desired length and lay out 1/4 strands count (e.g. for 24 strand finished 2 color cable you would lay out 3 strands of each side; for 1 color cable = 6 strands);
2) Serve each end (for yoke cable loops)
3) Double up string / fold over to join yoke loops and move to a 3 post setup
4) On the 3 post set up serve end loop opposite to the yoke loops
5) Move cable to 2 post setup (stretcher / twister) and twist / serve cable to spec as normal


----------



## Huntinsker

Jabr357 said:


> Great advise Huntinsker.
> 
> I have a question about the yoke cables strand count - It cannot be 26? as you need to divide it by 4 and I don't know how to do 6 1/2 strands - has to be 24 or 28.
> 
> PS. is there another method to do yoke cables other than this process (for served loops - not tag ends):
> 
> 1) On a four post setup, double the desired length and lay out 1/4 strands count (e.g. for 24 strand finished 2 color cable you would lay out 3 strands of each side; for 1 color cable = 6 strands);
> 2) Serve each end (for yoke cable loops)
> 3) Double up string / fold over to join yoke loops and move to a 3 post setup
> 4) On the 3 post set up serve end loop opposite to the yoke loops
> 5) Move cable to 2 post setup (stretcher / twister) and twist / serve cable to spec as normal


You're correct that you can't do 26 strands on a yoke cable but on something like an Elite where there are two control cables, 26 strands is possible, more so if you're serving your loops.


----------



## skynight

Jabr357 said:


> Great advise Huntinsker.
> 
> I have a question about the yoke cables strand count - It cannot be 26? as you need to divide it by 4 and I don't know how to do 6 1/2 strands - has to be 24 or 28.
> 
> PS. is there another method to do yoke cables other than this process (for served loops - not tag ends):
> 
> 1) On a four post setup, double the desired length and lay out 1/4 strands count (e.g. for 24 strand finished 2 color cable you would lay out 3 strands of each side; for 1 color cable = 6 strands);
> 2) Serve each end (for yoke cable loops)
> 3) Double up string / fold over to join yoke loops and move to a 3 post setup
> 4) On the 3 post set up serve end loop opposite to the yoke loops
> 5) Move cable to 2 post setup (stretcher / twister) and twist / serve cable to spec as normal


I use a three post. Lay out half your strands, leaving tags at the posts not the stretcher. Serve yoke loop. tie off tags and remove. Repeat.
Now put both yoke loops on stretcher end and serve cam loop. Straighten arms into two post, close yoke loops using 2" of serving, and continue your process.


----------



## Fiferguy

Hey gang,

So I've done a few sets of strings so far, and they all turned out pretty good.









But, here's an issue I'm having--every single string I'm getting peep rotation. It's extremely consistent rotation--about a quarter turn clockwise, as you're looking down the string from the top cam. I've tried varying the amount of serving (eliminating about 6" from the stock string length), the tension of serving, which side of the serving I start on (loop vs. closer to center), etc. I'm using BCY-X on my string, BCY Halo 0.007" for the end serving, and BCY 62XS 0.021" on the center serving.

The method I'm using is:
1. Lay out fibers.
2. Close end loops.
3. Stretch to 330lbs for 30 minutes. (I have calibrated my stretching jig with a digital scale).
4. Separate and de-wax string color bundles
5. Twist and measure at 100lbs
6. Separate colors and pins
7. Stretch to 330lbs for 60 minutes.
8. Burnish string
9. Relax minimum 4 hours
10. Remeasure at 100lbs.
11. Stretch to 330lbs and serve needed areas. (I use the string clamps mentioned earlier in this thread--they work great).
12. Let sit 24 hours before installing on bow.

Am I not stretching long enough? Am I not stretching hard enough? I'm serving with just enough tension to make the white halo go clear, sometimes even the serving jig's weight alone will cause it to let out serving--is that too little tension? Too much?

Everything else about the strings have been great. And the rotation is consistent--I put around 10,000 shots through the last set, but I can watch the peep twist every time I draw the bow, whether it's on a draw board or I'm shooting. It's a Hoyt Podium 37, if that makes a difference.

Help?


----------



## caspian

my suggestions - 

1 - fine
2 - fine
3 - you don't need that much tension. all you want to do is equalise the strand tensions, not stretch the string to maximum as it won't have anywhere to go later. try 150lb for 20 minutes.
4 - don't do this. it is too easy to end up with different amounts of wax in each bundle, or apply extra uneven stretch.
5 - twist starting from 100lb is OK. don't worry about measuring at this stage, the string is going to be stretch anyway.
6 - fine
7 - more tension than you really need based on recent advice, but won't hurt. I would stretch longer though, try 2-3 hours.
8 - fine
9 - absolutely do NOT do this. you just just the string stretched, you need to serve it next.
10 - no need
11 - fine (continuing directly on from step 8.
12 - fine

before fitting to bow, *now* bring to 100lb tension for 5 minutes or so, and adjust to perfect length.

your serving jig tension sounds too light from your description, although a lot does depend on the weight of the jig itself. ideally put a tape flag on the string when serving and back off tension briefly to check for rotation.


----------



## nuthinbutnock

Fiferguy said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> So I've done a few sets of strings so far, and they all turned out pretty good.
> 
> View attachment 5679681
> 
> 
> But, here's an issue I'm having--every single string I'm getting peep rotation. It's extremely consistent rotation--about a quarter turn clockwise, as you're looking down the string from the top cam. I've tried varying the amount of serving (eliminating about 6" from the stock string length), the tension of serving, which side of the serving I start on (loop vs. closer to center), etc. I'm using BCY-X on my string, BCY Halo 0.007" for the end serving, and BCY 62XS 0.021" on the center serving.
> 
> The method I'm using is:
> 1. Lay out fibers.
> 2. Close end loops.
> 3. Stretch to 330lbs for 30 minutes. (I have calibrated my stretching jig with a digital scale).
> 4. Separate and de-wax string color bundles
> 5. Twist and measure at 100lbs
> 6. Separate colors and pins
> 7. Stretch to 330lbs for 60 minutes.
> 8. Burnish string
> 9. Relax minimum 4 hours
> 10. Remeasure at 100lbs.
> 11. Stretch to 330lbs and serve needed areas. (I use the string clamps mentioned earlier in this thread--they work great).
> 12. Let sit 24 hours before installing on bow.
> 
> Am I not stretching long enough? Am I not stretching hard enough? I'm serving with just enough tension to make the white halo go clear, sometimes even the serving jig's weight alone will cause it to let out serving--is that too little tension? Too much?
> 
> Everything else about the strings have been great. And the rotation is consistent--I put around 10,000 shots through the last set, but I can watch the peep twist every time I draw the bow, whether it's on a draw board or I'm shooting. It's a Hoyt Podium 37, if that makes a difference.
> 
> Help?


I would say stretch longer. I do everything almost the same as you and I have absolutely no peep rotation. The peep comes back perfectly straight every time. I used to stretch for 24 hours but I've found that it only takes a few hours and then I let mine rest as well. Sometimes they rest over night before serving, depending on what time I take them off the stretchers. Also you'll want to tighten your serving jig up a little bit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> So I've done a few sets of strings so far, and they all turned out pretty good.
> 
> View attachment 5679681
> 
> 
> But, here's an issue I'm having--every single string I'm getting peep rotation. It's extremely consistent rotation--about a quarter turn clockwise, as you're looking down the string from the top cam. I've tried varying the amount of serving (eliminating about 6" from the stock string length), the tension of serving, which side of the serving I start on (loop vs. closer to center), etc. I'm using BCY-X on my string, BCY Halo 0.007" for the end serving, and BCY 62XS 0.021" on the center serving.
> 
> The method I'm using is:
> 1. Lay out fibers.
> 2. Close end loops.
> 3. Stretch to 330lbs for 30 minutes. (I have calibrated my stretching jig with a digital scale).
> 4. Separate and de-wax string color bundles
> 5. Twist and measure at 100lbs
> 6. Separate colors and pins
> 7. Stretch to 330lbs for 60 minutes.
> 8. Burnish string
> 9. Relax minimum 4 hours
> 10. Remeasure at 100lbs.
> 11. Stretch to 330lbs and serve needed areas. (I use the string clamps mentioned earlier in this thread--they work great).
> 12. Let sit 24 hours before installing on bow.
> 
> Am I not stretching long enough? Am I not stretching hard enough? I'm serving with just enough tension to make the white halo go clear, sometimes even the serving jig's weight alone will cause it to let out serving--is that too little tension? Too much?
> 
> Everything else about the strings have been great. And the rotation is consistent--I put around 10,000 shots through the last set, but I can watch the peep twist every time I draw the bow, whether it's on a draw board or I'm shooting. It's a Hoyt Podium 37, if that makes a difference.
> 
> Help?


So a couple little tweaks that I would suggest. 

Don't bother doing an actual stretch before twisting. Lay it out, close the loops, dewax and then take it up to 150lbs for a couple minutes, 5 is enough. Then twist and tension to whatever you stretch at, burnish lightly at that point. That's just to streamline your process and are updates to things that I've changed in my own process. Wish I could edit the first page of this but that's not possible. Hopefully people read through the thread enough to catch the evolution of the process as we've all learned together.

Anyway, the thing that really stood out to me is that you said the peep turns consistently every time and over thousands of shots. That to me indicates that the problem lies in bundle tension as opposed to stretch time or serving tension. If it were the serving tension, the peep rotation would not be consistent and would decrease over time as the twists under the serving equalizes. 

To troubleshoot unequal bundle tension, make sure your jig posts are vertical and not leaning inward when laying out the material. If they angle in at all like this, / \, the upper wraps will be shorter than the lower wraps. Make sure you are not getting jig flex. Flexing jigs will allow posts to lean. Make sure that you're not compressing the spring as you wrap the strands out. Nestly has a great video showing how the tension on the jig increases with each wrap. If your spring is compressing, block it some how like I did with that simple piece of wood. 

If that stuff doesn't help, let us know and we'll take another run at it.


----------



## Fiferguy

Huntinsker said:


> To troubleshoot unequal bundle tension, make sure your jig posts are vertical and not leaning inward when laying out the material. If they angle in at all like this, / \, the upper wraps will be shorter than the lower wraps. Make sure you are not getting jig flex. Flexing jigs will allow posts to lean. Make sure that you're not compressing the spring as you wrap the strands out. Nestly has a great video showing how the tension on the jig increases with each wrap. If your spring is compressing, block it some how like I did with that simple piece of wood.
> 
> If that stuff doesn't help, let us know and we'll take another run at it.


When I built my jig, I kind of modified the original design. I've since drilled and tapped the top so I have a thumb screw on both ends--this lets me tighten them down so they don't move at all when I'm laying material. I've also added a longer bolts to let me turn the tensioning nut without needing a wrench.














I'm not sure if they're exactly vertical or not. I'll have to double check. There is zero flex in the posts, though there might be some in the unistrut. I have it bolted to my desk when I'm making a string, but I guess it's possible there's some flex there.


----------



## Fiferguy

I have no idea why those are upside down...


----------



## Fiferguy

I measured it, and there's a 0.0430" difference between the top of the post and the bottom. Slightly less than 3/64". Could that be causing the problem you're mentioning Hunt?


----------



## NP Archery

Fiferguy said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> So I've done a few sets of strings so far, and they all turned out pretty good.
> 
> 
> 
> But, here's an issue I'm having--every single string I'm getting peep rotation. It's extremely consistent rotation--about a quarter turn clockwise, as you're looking down the string from the top cam. I've tried varying the amount of serving (eliminating about 6" from the stock string length), the tension of serving, which side of the serving I start on (loop vs. closer to center), etc. I'm using BCY-X on my string, BCY Halo 0.007" for the end serving, and BCY 62XS 0.021" on the center serving.
> 
> The method I'm using is:
> 1. Lay out fibers.
> 2. Close end loops.
> 3. Stretch to 330lbs for 30 minutes. (I have calibrated my stretching jig with a digital scale).
> 4. Separate and de-wax string color bundles
> 5. Twist and measure at 100lbs
> 6. Separate colors and pins
> 7. Stretch to 330lbs for 60 minutes.
> 8. Burnish string
> 9. Relax minimum 4 hours
> 10. Remeasure at 100lbs.
> 11. Stretch to 330lbs and serve needed areas. (I use the string clamps mentioned earlier in this thread--they work great).
> 12. Let sit 24 hours before installing on bow.
> 
> Am I not stretching long enough? Am I not stretching hard enough? I'm serving with just enough tension to make the white halo go clear, sometimes even the serving jig's weight alone will cause it to let out serving--is that too little tension? Too much?
> 
> Everything else about the strings have been great. And the rotation is consistent--I put around 10,000 shots through the last set, but I can watch the peep twist every time I draw the bow, whether it's on a draw board or I'm shooting. It's a Hoyt Podium 37, if that makes a difference.
> 
> Help?


I'm not a big fan of alot of tension until AFTER the twist are added. The idea of a ton of tension before and during the twisting stage caused more harm than good for me. It seemed that the higher tension and longer stretch times were counter-productive and the rotation got worse the more #s I added. Now I never go much over #100 until the twist are in. My strings finish smoother, I can serve at a tighter rate when working with white/clear and peep rotation is a non-issue.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> I measured it, and there's a 0.0430" difference between the top of the post and the bottom. Slightly less than 3/64". Could that be causing the problem you're mentioning Hunt?


You wouldn't think that that little of difference would be causing it but it's hard to say. If you can figure out an easy way to get rid of that little lean, it would be worth doing to see if it does make the difference, if only for piece of mind and eliminating one more variable.


----------



## Fiferguy

Huntinsker said:


> You wouldn't think that that little of difference would be causing it but it's hard to say. If you can figure out an easy way to get rid of that little lean, it would be worth doing to see if it does make the difference, if only for piece of mind and eliminating one more variable.


I hope not, cause it'll be a beast to fix if it is. I've got one on the jig right now following the suggestions already posted. No full-tension prestretch and when I stretch I'll stretch for quite a bit longer. I also am trying caspian's suggestion of not dewaxing the bundles first. Maybe I was getting a little overzealous there and stretching the bundles separately. :shrug:

So far, I have noticed that it twists MUCH better. The colors and pin laid beautifully--I always had issues before of the bundles not wanting to lay evenly when I twisted, and I would have to spend quite a while chasing them with spare serving. I'm going to have to do the pinstripes, but other than that it looks really good. Even the pins laid nicely this time, just a few spots where there like one strand out of place.

So maybe it was the prestretching that was causing the problem. I'll let y'all know once I have it on the bow. Probably be a day or two.

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> I hope not, cause it'll be a beast to fix if it is. I've got one on the jig right now following the suggestions already posted. No full-tension prestretch and when I stretch I'll stretch for quite a bit longer. I also am trying caspian's suggestion of not dewaxing the bundles first. Maybe I was getting a little overzealous there and stretching the bundles separately. :shrug:
> 
> So far, I have noticed that it twists MUCH better. The colors and pin laid beautifully--I always had issues before of the bundles not wanting to lay evenly when I twisted, and I would have to spend quite a while chasing them with spare serving. I'm going to have to do the pinstripes, but other than that it looks really good. Even the pins laid nicely this time, just a few spots where there like one strand out of place.
> 
> So maybe it was the prestretching that was causing the problem. I'll let y'all know once I have it on the bow. Probably be a day or two.
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


I still dewax but after dewaxing, I separate each individual strand for the length of the string. Not hard and only takes a couple seconds to do but it makes the bundles much rounder. If you dewax and squeeze each color into a round bundle and then twist two round bundles together, you get a bit of an 8 shaped string vs a nice round string. Doing what I do now, the strings come out better and I still get that excess wax off them.


----------



## Fiferguy

Huntinsker said:


> I still dewax but after dewaxing, I separate each individual strand for the length of the string. Not hard and only takes a couple seconds to do but it makes the bundles much rounder. If you dewax and squeeze each color into a round bundle and then twist two round bundles together, you get a bit of an 8 shaped string vs a nice round string. Doing what I do now, the strings come out better and I still get that excess wax off them.


Interesting. I'll give that a try on the next string. Bit late to try that on this one. I never really had a problem getting it round, but I burnished quite a bit in the stretch after I twisted. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## Fiferguy

Here's a random question: how much of the color of the strands is in the wax? One of the things that's striking to me is how much more vibrant and saturated the colors are on a string that hasn't been dewaxed.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> Here's a random question: how much of the color of the strands is in the wax? One of the things that's striking to me is how much more vibrant and saturated the colors are on a string that hasn't been dewaxed.


Most to all of it. The true color of the fibers is white to off white in the case of Vectran blends. Any color you see has been added by the wax/dye process. If you were able to remove all of the wax, you'd have little to no color.


----------



## Fiferguy

Huntinsker said:


> Most to all of it. The true color of the fibers is white to off white in the case of Vectran blends. Any color you see has been added by the wax/dye process. If you were able to remove all of the wax, you'd have little to no color.


Interesting. I always thought my finished strings looked kind of dull compared to the material on the spool. I like not dewaxing the strands for no other reason than they're prettier. ;-) We'll see how well they hold up. I'm about an hour into a 2 hour stretch right now.


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## mattafliving

Had anyone done a mod to the bieters to keep smaller diameter serving such as .007 halo from sliding out of the slot all of the time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Coug09

Guys I have a bit of an issue I run into some that drives me up a wall. 

I serve towards the posts and always use bullwhip in black or clear. Occasionally I have an issue with the bullwhip breaking when I go to pull it thru. I mainly use scrap pieces of bowstring material as well as serving. The serving seems to make it worse. 

Suggestions....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> Had anyone done a mod to the bieters to keep smaller diameter serving such as .007 halo from sliding out of the slot all of the time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Put a nail in the slot that runs the length of the jig and tape it in place. Never done it but saw a guy doing it for small diameter stuff. I just always serve towards the slot so that travel of the jig is pushing the serving deeper into the jig rather than out the slot.


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## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> Interesting. I always thought my finished strings looked kind of dull compared to the material on the spool. I like not dewaxing the strands for no other reason than they're prettier. ;-) We'll see how well they hold up. I'm about an hour into a 2 hour stretch right now.


If your strings come out dull, you're probably being too aggressive with the dewaxing and burnishing. One time down the length on the dewax and once up and down on the burnish is all it should take. One thing you may run into when serve is a lot of excess wax squeezing out and making a mess on your serving jig. You also may have premature serving separation because of the wax acting as a lubricant to the serving.


----------



## Huntinsker

Coug09 said:


> Guys I have a bit of an issue I run into some that drives me up a wall.
> 
> I serve towards the posts and always use bullwhip in black or clear. Occasionally I have an issue with the bullwhip breaking when I go to pull it thru. I mainly use scrap pieces of bowstring material as well as serving. The serving seems to make it worse.
> 
> Suggestions....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you pulling it through with? I used to have that problem when using too small of "loop material" to pull it with. Switched to .018 62xs and it's large enough to make a "tunnel" for the serving and strong enough that you can still wrap tightly around it without it breaking.


----------



## skynight

Coug09 said:


> Guys I have a bit of an issue I run into some that drives me up a wall.
> 
> I serve towards the posts and always use bullwhip in black or clear. Occasionally I have an issue with the bullwhip breaking when I go to pull it thru. I mainly use scrap pieces of bowstring material as well as serving. The serving seems to make it worse.
> 
> Suggestions....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't pull the tag end all the way into the loop before pulling under the serving. Leave some slack. Keeps the pull loop from scraping down the entire tag end.


----------



## Coug09

Huntinsker said:


> What are you pulling it through with? I used to have that problem when using too small of "loop material" to pull it with. Switched to .018 62xs and it's large enough to make a "tunnel" for the serving and strong enough that you can still wrap tightly around it without it breaking.


Mainly bowstring material. I like the 62XS but it leaves a black residue behind when using a clarifier on clear serving


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## Coug09

skynight said:


> Don't pull the tag end all the way into the loop before pulling under the serving. Leave some slack. Keeps the pull loop from scraping down the entire tag end.


Going to try this in just a minute. I had to read it a few times before I followed what you were saying. How much do you put thru the loop?


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## Coug09

skynight said:


> Don't pull the tag end all the way into the loop before pulling under the serving. Leave some slack. Keeps the pull loop from scraping down the entire tag end.


Just tried it and it worked beautifully. Can't thank you enough


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## skynight

Coug09 said:


> Going to try this in just a minute. I had to read it a few times before I followed what you were saying. How much do you put thru the loop?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I leave an inch or so loose.


----------



## skynight

Coug09 said:


> Just tried it and it worked beautifully. Can't thank you enough
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Stole that idea from AT member Padgett.


----------



## Coug09

That's the best piece of advice I think I've gotten on AT. Nothing gets me more infuriated string building than breaking that tag end. Much smoother your way. I can't thank you enough!


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## b0w_bender

mattafliving said:


> Had anyone done a mod to the bieters to keep smaller diameter serving such as .007 halo from sliding out of the slot all of the time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here is the Mod I did to the Beiter to ensure the thread stays in the slot. it is a piece of wire I use for making fishing lures, either that or a scrap piece of coat-hanger. I know sounds cobbled together but it does the trick.


----------



## mattafliving

b0w_bender said:


> Here is the Mod I did to the Beiter to ensure the thread stays in the slot. it is a piece of wire I use for making fishing lures, either that or a scrap piece of coat-hanger. I know sounds cobbled together but it does the trick.


I like the idea of not having to tape it, I'll give that a try. 


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## mattafliving

Things are about to take a lot less time! 


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## BlindBuck

^^^ one word "envy".

I have one QS350 and love it. How much did that setup from Butch run?

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## automan26

mattafliving said:


> Things are about to take a lot less time!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey...Wait a minute!!! Those were supposed to have been shipped to my house. Lol

You are showing signs of having become addicted to string building. Those really look great!!!!

Automan


----------



## mattafliving

BlindBuck said:


> ^^^ one word "envy".
> 
> I have one QS350 and love it. How much did that setup from Butch run?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


The stuff from butch was $320. The actuators were $46 off of amazon. Then there a few other things needed. Overall I believe I saved money vs buying the qs350. I would also like to note that Butch does some amazing work and I have a lot of peace at mind with the sturdy construction of these stretchers. 


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## mattafliving

automan26 said:


> Hey...Wait a minute!!! Those were supposed to have been shipped to my house. Lol
> 
> You are showing signs of having become addicted to string building. Those really look great!!!!
> 
> Automan


Yeah it didn't take long for the addiction to set in at all. Pretty much like every other aspect of archery that I have jumped in to. 


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## BlindBuck

mattafliving said:


> The stuff from butch was $320. The actuators were $46 off of amazon. Then there a few other things needed. Overall I believe I saved money vs buying the qs350. I would also like to note that Butch does some amazing work and I have a lot of peace at mind with the sturdy construction of these stretchers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for the info. He sure does make nice stuff. I was literally looking at those yesterday when I was browsing his site debating on buying his four post setup. I wasn't sure if the overall cost was less than a QS350 or not.

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## Coug09

mattafliving said:


> The stuff from butch was $320. The actuators were $46 off of amazon. Then there a few other things needed. Overall I believe I saved money vs buying the qs350. I would also like to note that Butch does some amazing work and I have a lot of peace at mind with the sturdy construction of these stretchers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's actually not bad!


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## mattafliving

BlindBuck said:


> Thank you for the info. He sure does make nice stuff. I was literally looking at those yesterday when I was browsing his site debating on buying his four post setup. I wasn't sure if the overall cost was less than a QS350 or not.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Yeah, his four post setup is really nice. I was able to put together 3 stretchers for right around the cost of 2 Qs350s. I'm really wanting to try out using a 6 post setup for setting up bus cables. 


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## mattafliving

What's the best way to clean off the excess wax that builds up on the bobbin? 


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## Huntinsker

I just use hot water and an old toothbrush.


----------



## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> I just use hot water and an old toothbrush.


Such a simple solution. I tend to over complicate things. Lol


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## lunghit

Did anyone ever try tying in a peep with a piece of string material? I would like to match colors but do not have orange peep tying material so I am wondering if a length of BCY X will work.


----------



## nuthinbutnock

lunghit said:


> Did anyone ever try tying in a peep with a piece of string material? I would like to match colors but do not have orange peep tying material so I am wondering if a length of BCY X will work.


I've seen it done. Personally I don't like it 


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## michaelgentry87

mattafliving said:


> What's the best way to clean off the excess wax that builds up on the bobbin?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Simple green

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## lees

lunghit said:


> Did anyone ever try tying in a peep with a piece of string material? I would like to match colors but do not have orange peep tying material so I am wondering if a length of BCY X will work.


It'll work, but pretty much anything made out of Dyneema/Spectra is so brutally strong with zero stretch that ironically, getting the knots tight enough is a problem. If you use a constrictor knot around the peep that'll hold ok, but you want to watch the installation for loosening over time. 

Some cheapo nylon string like the BCY peep thread will tend to work better for hand-drawn knots and is much cheaper than serving....

lee.


----------



## lunghit

lees said:


> It'll work, but pretty much anything made out of Dyneema/Spectra is so brutally strong with zero stretch that ironically, getting the knots tight enough is a problem. If you use a constrictor knot around the peep that'll hold ok, but you want to watch the installation for loosening over time.
> 
> Some cheapo nylon string like the BCY peep thread will tend to work better for hand-drawn knots and is much cheaper than serving....
> 
> lee.


Just remembered I have some orange .014 Halo that will work. Thanks


----------



## lunghit

My latest build for my new Bowtech Reign 7. Also experimenting posting pics using Flickr. Sorry for the huge pics lol


----------



## BillSchuh

Looks good. Thanks for the great pictures


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## automan26

lunghit:

You are a man after my own heart. I have an obsession with the color orange. I once bought a drill that I didn't need just because it was orange. Three weeks later I saw an orange bench vice in a hardware store and couldn't walk out of the store without it. I may need professional help!!!!!!

Your strings are sweeeeet, but due to the fact that they and everything else in your shop are orange----I may have to go take a cold shower. LOL

Automan


----------



## lunghit

automan26 said:


> lunghit:
> 
> You are a man after my own heart. I have an obsession with the color orange. I once bought a drill that I didn't need just because it was orange. Three weeks later I saw an orange bench vice in a hardware store and couldn't walk out of the store without it. I may need professional help!!!!!!
> 
> Your strings are sweeeeet, but due to the fact that they and everything else in your shop are orange----I may have to go take a cold shower. LOL
> 
> Automan


LOL reminds me of orange leaves in the fall. Best time of year and it's a nice camo to have up in a tree! My fletchings are orange too.


----------



## azfiredog300

Outstanding work


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## mattafliving

Set of strings I did for my buddy Brad. 


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## Tidestar

Awesome diy!! Love the results everyone posted, gives me ideas and my wife reason to worry.


----------



## AndyComp

What shrink tube is everyone using to cover speed nocks? Any tips on heating it up?


----------



## NP Archery

Tidestar said:


> Awesome diy!! Love the results everyone posted, gives me ideas and my wife reason to worry.


Instant Classic !


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## lunghit

AndyComp said:


> What shrink tube is everyone using to cover speed nocks? Any tips on heating it up?


I use peep tubing. Look at my pics a few posts above to see what it looks like. No heating at all.


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## mattafliving

string stretchers are almost up, waiting on some fittings that I ordered on amazon that shipped from china. 


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## BlindBuck

lunghit said:


> My latest build for my new Bowtech Reign 7. Also experimenting posting pics using Flickr. Sorry for the huge pics lol


My favorite colors for a string set. I'm in the process of building Black/Silver/Orange Pin for an all black bow I'm waiting on. 

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## BlindBuck

mattafliving said:


> string stretchers are almost up, waiting on some fittings that I ordered on amazon that shipped from china.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like a great setup in the making!

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## lunghit

BlindBuck said:


> My favorite colors for a string set. I'm in the process of building Black/Silver/Orange Pin for an all black bow I'm waiting on.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


That's going to look nice on a black bow. I still to this day have never owned a black bow but that might change real soon.


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## K.G.K.

Coug09 said:


> Just make them using a 2 post.
> 
> Set posts to 13" and depending on material make them 10-14 wraps. With the serving, in my experience it needs to measure .107 or under to fit into the plastic pieces. Once you lay out and serve 4-9", stretch at usual # for 15-20 min. Once removing them from jig you can twist each end slightly to help keep it in the AVS rings
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What do you do with the tag ends?

Do you twist at all before serving the center section?

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## mattafliving

I have a random question not really meant for compound guys but hoping to get some help. I was asking to make a recurve string. The guy is currently shooting 8125g 16 strands, but I will be making it from BCYx. 


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## mattafliving

How many strands should I make the string out of? I know 8125g is a larger material. I was thinking 1 stands. Any help is greatly appreciated. 


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## Fiferguy

So the new string that I made looks A LOT better than previous strings. And it was much easier to twist when I didn't pre-stretch the bundles before twisting.

But I'm still getting peep rotation. The only conclusion I can draw is that I have some bundle inequality because the jig isn't perfectly aligned. I know I'm not getting any flex in the jig (even at extreme tensions, there was no measurable flex), but the posts aren't exactly parallel to start (like 3/128ths off or something like that). I'm left to assume that that's the root cause of my problems.

The stretching part of my jig seems to work just fine, so I think I need a different layout setup. Thoughts?


----------



## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> How many strands should I make the string out of? I know 8125g is a larger material. I was thinking 1 stands. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


BCY recommends 18 strands of 8125g for compounds and 24 of X for compounds. Those numbers will give you the same, or very close to, bundle diameter. So if he's using 16 of 8125g, I'd think 20 of X would do the trick. Then you need to know what nock he's using to get the serving correct for the nock fit. Here's a great resource for recurve string building. It has some nock fit recommendations too and so far, the ones I have built using this guide have been spot on. https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/bowstring-dimensions.pdf


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## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> BCY recommends 18 strands of 8125g for compounds and 24 of X for compounds. Those numbers will give you the same, or very close to, bundle diameter. So if he's using 16 of 8125g, I'd think 20 of X would do the trick. Then you need to know what nock he's using to get the serving correct for the nock fit. Here's a great resource for recurve string building. It has some nock fit recommendations too and so far, the ones I have built using this guide have been spot on. https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/bowstring-dimensions.pdf


Thanks!! 


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## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> BCY recommends 18 strands of 8125g for compounds and 24 of X for compounds. Those numbers will give you the same, or very close to, bundle diameter. So if he's using 16 of 8125g, I'd think 20 of X would do the trick. Then you need to know what nock he's using to get the serving correct for the nock fit. Here's a great resource for recurve string building. It has some nock fit recommendations too and so far, the ones I have built using this guide have been spot on. https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/bowstring-dimensions.pdf


Thanks! 


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## BlindBuck

lunghit said:


> That's going to look nice on a black bow. I still to this day have never owned a black bow but that might change real soon.


I think it will look good also. Can't go wrong with orange, black, and silver IMHO. O man never owned a black bow, that's like almost a sin for a string builder. Also a great excuse to buy another bow.












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## Coug09

K.G.K. said:


> What do you do with the tag ends?
> 
> Do you twist at all before serving the center section?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


No twisting before, there's no way you could. I just cut the tags flush with the serving


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## Coug09

mattafliving said:


> string stretchers are almost up, waiting on some fittings that I ordered on amazon that shipped from china.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd like to see a build sheet on this with links if you ever get time


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## mattafliving

Coug09 said:


> I'd like to see a build sheet on this with links if you ever get time
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll try to put one together. 


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## Coug09

I've got a great tip here for Mathews string builders that have any of the AVS bows (Monsters, Chills, Halons, etc) 

Idk about you guys but my OCD gets the best of me and I am extremely picky. Especially on my target bows. I'm sure you've built a set of cables or had some built for these bows where after you put them on and shoot them in, you can't get the timing perfect. Like a half of a twist is too much and one cam is leading by 1/16" or 1/32". Very rarely does it ever work out where they're truly identical

Here's the tip, rather than dealing with it or trying to build a new set of cables, build new "yokes". You can make one of them longer by however much the cam is ahead by. A great tip here because yokes can be built in no time flat and you never have to settle for the timing being really close. 


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## K.G.K.

Good advise .... 

Since we're on Mathews, built a harness for a Halon. I built cables to spec per Mathews. However, built the string 1/4 short per recommendation by some AT guys.

Ultimately put 8-10 twists in cables to achieve ATA and remove 8 twists in string to get proper draw weight and DL. 

Back and forth, got ata, brace and DL right, just under 71 # dw.

My question is, is my string messed up since the Mathews strings are about 90% serving, those twists out of the string come from a small section of unswrved string.

I am definitely going to remake some based on these new threads measurements. Now I'm not confident on Mathews providing proper string specs.

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Good advise ....
> 
> Since we're on Mathews, built a harness for a Halon. I built cables to spec per Mathews. However, built the string 1/4 short per recommendation by some AT guys.
> 
> Ultimately put 8-10 twists in cables to achieve ATA and remove 8 twists in string to get proper draw weight and DL.
> 
> Back and forth, got ata, brace and DL right, just under 71 # dw.
> 
> My question is, is my string messed up since the Mathews strings are about 90% serving, those twists out of the string come from a small section of unswrved string.
> 
> I am definitely going to remake some based on these new threads measurements. Now I'm not confident on Mathews providing proper string specs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


They've been putting out crap lengths for years. Too bad you had to find out the hard way. I would say yes, that your string is probably going to experience problems, peep twist mostly, because the twist rate under the serving is not the same as the twist rate in the exposed string. They will want to balance and you're peep will be caught in the middle. Build a new set based on your custom lengths and from then on, if you can get your hands on the Mathews bow that you're building for, get the bow to spec and measure the threads to find the actual lengths.


----------



## K.G.K.

Thanks ... Do I need to build new cables too?

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## Huntinsker

8-10 twists is a lot in a cable especially with that much serving. I think that twisting that much could cause the serving to prematurely loosen and separate but you wouldn't know for certain without shooting. If it were me, I'd build an all new set if for no other reason that piece of mind and having the twist rates the same, looks better and all that.


----------



## K.G.K.

Agreed ...



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## mattafliving

About to do a Mathews DXT with strings and cable at 86.25 and 32.25. I know people have said Mathews string specs are normally inaccurate. Are the DXTs in that same boat? If so what was the rule of thumb for these older Mathews bows. 


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> About to do a Mathews DXT with strings and cable at 86.25 and 32.25. I know people have said Mathews string specs are normally inaccurate. Are the DXTs in that same boat? If so what was the rule of thumb for these older Mathews bows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


First and only time I built for a DXT, I used the factory specs and came up 5lbs under weight and the DL was 1/2" long. The guy actually liked it that way because he couldn't draw the full weight anyway. If I took a guess, I'd say go 1/4-3/8" short on the cable and 1/8" short on the string. Should be closer that way.


----------



## mattafliving

Thanks Huntinsker! I have another question as well. Does any one know the strand count for Darton Bows? Also the cables? 


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> Thanks Huntinsker! I have another question as well. Does any one know the strand count for Darton Bows? Also the cables?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Historically they've run 22 strands of 452x on cables and 20 on the string but you can do 22 on the string no problem. Their yokes are 12 strands of 452x.


----------



## Coug09

On the Halon bows I've actually taken the factory string, cables and yokes off of brand new bows and measured them at 100lbs. Each piece measured 1/16" or a little more long. At least my X and X Comp were this way


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## mattafliving

the set for this Mathews DXT came out pretty nice. I had to move my string clamps around a lot while serving that main string though. Not the biggest fan of such a long string. Still trying to get the serving to clear up even more. How are you guys getting the .014 to clear up? I'm using BCY clarifier during serving and I also put a light coat on afterwards. This string was served under 400 lbs of tension. 


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## automan26

If you are looking for something clear, this is some Berkeley Crystal 20# or 30#, I can't exactly remember, but it really clears up nicely. I just finished this cable about 5 minutes ago. I use this over the rollers and it holds up very well.

Automan


----------



## mattafliving

automan26 said:


> If you are looking for something clear, this is some Berkeley Crystal 20# or 30#, I can't exactly remember, but it really clears up nicely. I just finished this cable about 5 minutes ago. I use this over the rollers and it holds up very well.
> 
> Automan


For the rollers I've been using .007 halo and that clears up without an issue, my issue is the the end serving. I've heard using the fishing line for actual cams ends up with durability issues. 


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## automan26

I have used nothing but Chinese Spectra for a long time and it works great over the cams. I have use Crystal on the cables, but I haven't tried it around the cams yet.

Automan


----------



## Fiferguy

So I broke down and bought a new jig--a Baker. Can't say too much about how impressed I am with it so far. WAY easier to use than my home built. The test string I built turned out great. The acid test will be once I get some more serving and can build one for my bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> the set for this Mathews DXT came out pretty nice. I had to move my string clamps around a lot while serving that main string though. Not the biggest fan of such a long string. Still trying to get the serving to clear up even more. How are you guys getting the .014 to clear up? I'm using BCY clarifier during serving and I also put a light coat on afterwards. This string was served under 400 lbs of tension.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Getting any serving to look completely clear over dark colored strings is hard. Flo colors with high contrast to each other make it easier. The other trick is to serve it tighter. Problem with that is that it may cause peep rotation, especially on a long single cam string that has tons of serving.


----------



## K.G.K.

automan26 said:


> I have used nothing but Chinese Spectra for a long time and it works great over the cams. I have use Crystal on the cables, but I haven't tried it around the cams yet.
> 
> Automan


Where do you buy the Chinese spectra?

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## automan26

K.G.K. said:


> Where do you buy the Chinese spectra?
> 
> Sent from my SM
> 
> Here is what I have used in the past and it worked well.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Strands-P...hash=item3a9e9efa96:m:m7VbwmG5ucCWLxdWdlorAGA
> 
> You can select the color and diameter to meet your individual needs. This stuff has worked so well for me that it is all I use now. The price is right, but you are going to have to wait a few weeks for it to come from China. The wait will be well worth it. I have ordered mainly 50# material and like it very much. I accidently ordered 60# and even though it is a bit thicker, I haven't had any problems, but I still like the 50# stuff.
> 
> Automan


----------



## K.G.K.

Thank you...

What # do you set a serving tool for a string and cable? I stretch at 350# plus when I serve and use a Beiter.

Just curious if there is a recommended serving tool poundage.



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## automan26

I have a slightly different procedure for serving tensions that works for me. Everyone seems to have their own method and most of the other methods work fine. I do not serve with my string under super stretching tension. 300#ish or maybe even a little less. I use a string clamp to secure the string, then I use a sharpie to make a series of marks along the top of the section I plan to serve. I tighten my serving tool to the point where it will almost support itself horizontally on the string. As I serve I watch my dots to insure that they are not twisting around the string. The dots often flex around as I serve, but if they come back to the top when I relieve the torque on the string, I am satisfied that the string is not twisting during the serving process. I go more by feel than by pounds of tension.

I have had several instances that serving with the string under too much tension causes problems. I have started with a string twisted to the perfect length then stretched it to a very high tension for serving. After I am finished and the string has had a chance to relax properly I have found that some strings are 1/8" longer than when I started. This is caused by a very tight serving being applied to a highly stretched string, locking the string in the stretched-out length. Often, but not always, the string will relax back to its unserved length, but sometimes it does not. I now serve the string under just enough tension to keep it from twisting while serving it using string clamps. This is what works for me, but there are others with a different opinion and procedure and their system works for them.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Thank you...
> 
> What # do you set a serving tool for a string and cable? I stretch at 350# plus when I serve and use a Beiter.
> 
> Just curious if there is a recommended serving tool poundage.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


I started out putting a scale to the serving jig when I first started building. Found that it was tedious and unnecessary. If you serve enough pieces, you'll know what a good tension is. Serve it as tightly as you can without the string rotating more than 1/4 turn while serving. If you let the string rotate much more than that, you'll almost certainly have peep rotation. For cables it doesn't matter as much and you can serve more tightly.

Most will quote 8-12lbs of tension.


----------



## mattafliving

So I have another question for you guys. I been having an issue with my end loops wanting to slightly twist after I'm done serving the string. It's mainly a cosmetic issue cause as soon as they even have 5 pounds of tension on them they straighten out but it bothers the hell out of me. When I'm serving the bowstring I'm not getting more than an 1/8 rotation so I know I'm not serving to tightly. Could I be serving the actual loops to tight? What could be another cause of this? 


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> So I have another question for you guys. I been having an issue with my end loops wanting to slightly twist after I'm done serving the string. It's mainly a cosmetic issue cause as soon as they even have 5 pounds of tension on them they straighten out but it bothers the hell out of me. When I'm serving the bowstring I'm not getting more than an 1/8 rotation so I know I'm not serving to tightly. *Could I be serving the actual loops to tight?* What could be another cause of this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. I don't know of another thing that causes that.


----------



## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> Yes. I don't know of another thing that causes that.


 awesome, next string I'll make the served loops a little loser and report back what my finding are. I'll take pics of the loops when I get home so others can have a reference to the issue. Thanks once again Huntinsker. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

Going to try braided fishing line on my used/new PSE Supra coming. I know it's been talked about many times here but way too many pages to look through. I am looking for something the same diameter as .014 Halo and .007 Halo. If someone can post an Ebay link and let me know what pound line to buy I would really appreciate it. Thanks


----------



## skynight

lunghit said:


> Going to try braided fishing line on my used/new PSE Supra coming. I know it's been talked about many times here but way too many pages to look through. I am looking for something the same diameter as .014 Halo and .007 Halo. If someone can post an Ebay link and let me know what pound line to buy I would really appreciate it. Thanks


40# 8 strand Spectra is similar size to .014 Halo. It is a lot slicker though, so I've just ordered the 4 strand 40#. I expect it to be the closest to halo.
For loops the 10# 8 strand is amazing but I had durability issues with it, so using 15# 8 strand. Looks almost as good, not a lot thicker, lot more durable.
I buy on eBay from Mimi happy house or something like that. Search 4 strand Spectra fishing line.


----------



## BlindBuck

Most of the Spectra fishing lines have conversion charts. The only thing you might want to watch is I swear some of the cheap Chinese "Spectra" are not fully made of Spectra. They seem very different than say PowerPro to me.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

Thanks for the info here guys. So 4 strand is the way to go with braid?


----------



## automan26

Berkley Fireline Crystal 30# .015" on 28 Strand Fury...String O.D. .100" I can't get this image to rotate vertically, but can you find the serving behind the rollers?

Automan


----------



## skullerud

Will the 4strand braided spectra lines work as serving material on the cam serving areas as well?
Like instead of #62xs 0.18?



Sent fra min E6653 via Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

automan26 said:


> Berkley Fireline Crystal 30# .015" on 28 Strand Fury...String O.D. .100" I can't get this image to rotate vertically, but can you find the serving behind the rollers?
> 
> Automan


Good looking stuff there. Is Berkley Fireline a 4 strand braid?


----------



## automan26

I am not sure if it is 4 or 8 but I do know it is a dyneema braid. Also it is heated and fused which gives it it's clear properties.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Thanks for the info here guys. So 4 strand is the way to go with braid?


4 strand holds better than an 8 strand because it's not as slick. The 8 strand is too smooth to hold the string well.


----------



## mattafliving

Anyone know where to buy flo pink/green shrink tubing? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Outsider

mattafliving said:


> Anyone know where to buy flo pink/green shrink tubing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe here http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/heat-shrink-2-1-tubing-18


----------



## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> Anyone know where to buy flo pink/green shrink tubing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haven't seen it myself. Not in a diameter that would work anyway. You may try flo pink peep tubing from Pine Ridge. Just slide that over the nocks. Looks good and is easy to do.


----------



## nestly

Where does everyone get their string building materials? I'm fortunate to be fairly close to 3 major archery distributors, but I typically get better prices on bowstring and serving materials from a certain well known bowstring company in PA. Problem is their prices on BCY materials just jumped significantly, so I'm looking for a new source.


----------



## lunghit

nestly said:


> Where does everyone get their string building materials? I'm fortunate to be fairly close to 3 major archery distributors, but I typically get better prices on bowstring and serving materials from a certain well known bowstring company in PA. Problem is their prices on BCY materials just jumped significantly, so I'm looking for a new source.


I get most of my stuff from Brad at 60X and his online stores. Keep an eye out in the classifieds here because people are always selling material. I have not noticed the increase in price from BCY. How much did material go up?


----------



## nestly

lunghit said:


> I get most of my stuff from Brad at 60X and his online stores.


Well then you're in the same boat if you order from the online store. I just checked my old receipts and until a few months ago I was paying $33.00 (inc tax) for 1/8 # spools of 452x. Today the price (inc. tax) is $37.63. A spool of BCY 2X end serving used to be $10.92 (inc tax) ..... now $12.71.

So basically I used to be able to save $1 per spool by ordering from 60x, now it costs $3.50 more per spool than if I just drive 15 minutes and pick it up at BHSS.


----------



## nestly

lunghit said:


> How much did material go up?


In Feb 2017, 1/4# spool of black 452X was $50.50 (inc tax) .... today it's $63.07


----------



## CRASHLEY77

Contact me Ashley Carpenter, at Freedom Strings for an awesome deal on strings and unbeatable quality.

828-446-3412

Text or call. We will take care of you.


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> In Feb 2017, 1/4# spool of black 452X was $50.50 (inc tax) .... today it's $63.07


BCY increased their dealer pricing, I believe by 4%. Unfortunately it looks like 60x added a little more than 4% to their prices.


----------



## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> BCY increased their dealer pricing, I believe by 4%. Unfortunately it looks like 60x added a little more than 4% to their prices.


So you a dealer? Im guessing I bought between $900 and $1100 worth of BCY materials in the last 12 months....wonder what the threshold is to purchase direct from BCY?

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> So you a dealer? Im guessing I bought between $900 and $1100 worth of BCY materials in the last 12 months....wonder what the threshold is to purchase direct from BCY?
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Not a dealer myself but I know some. I asked for their permission to post their info for people to use but got nothing in return. Guess they aren't interested in the business. Many string builders think that the people in this thread sell strings illegally, without paying FET taxes and all that, and aren't happy that there are so many of us hobby builders "taking their business". I'll reach out to some more guys and see if they're interested.


----------



## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> Not a dealer myself but I know some. I asked for their permission to post their info for people to use but got nothing in return. Guess they aren't interested in the business. Many string builders think that the people in this thread sell strings illegally, without paying FET taxes and all that, and aren't happy that there are so many of us hobby builders "taking their business". I'll reach out to some more guys and see if they're interested.


I think one of the biggest issues is most people don't even know that the FET tax even exist. Not a reason to get all upset. If you want to get dealer pricing because you are spending a lot of money on string material, you are probably making a lot of strings for other and should get a business license anyways. Then apply for the dealer pricing through a BCY supplier. Make sure you pay that FET tax at the end of the year though. Not really fair to undercut people who are doing things the right way because you don't pay taxes. Just my two cents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattafliving

I also believe encouraging others to join the archery industry is only going to grow the sport quality. Love this thread for that exact reason. 


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----------



## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> I think one of the biggest issues is most people don't even know that the FET tax even exist. Not a reason to get all upset. If you want to get dealer pricing because you are spending a lot of money on string material, you are probably making a lot of strings for other and should get a business license anyways. Then apply for the dealer pricing through a BCY supplier. Make sure you pay that FET tax at the end of the year though. Not really fair to undercut people who are doing things the right way because you don't pay taxes. Just my two cents.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





mattafliving said:


> I also believe encouraging others to join the archery industry is only going to grow the sport quality. Love this thread for that exact reason.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree 100% however I don't think anyone here necessarily wants dealer pricing. Just pricing that didn't jump 25% because of a 4% increase by BCY. Also, this thread wasn't intended to encourage others to make string building a business but rather to help them learn to make their own stuff. That's the spirit of the DIY forum and archers helping archers. Some have made a business out of their skills learned in this thread and that's great, it's just not what Automan and I set out to do.


----------



## BlindBuck

Huntinsker said:


> Not a dealer myself but I know some. I asked for their permission to post their info for people to use but got nothing in return. Guess they aren't interested in the business. Many string builders think that the people in this thread sell strings illegally, without paying FET taxes and all that, and aren't happy that there are so many of us hobby builders "taking their business". I'll reach out to some more guys and see if they're interested.


Well that is sad to read. Someone is going to sell the material anyway so it might as well be them (we surely don't want to be over charged by people). I truly believe the vast majority of people on this thread do not sell their string sets or if they do it is most likely legitimate. I know I myself never sell my string sets. It is truly a hobby and costs much less than any of my other hobbies I have had (or still have) over the years. Shops in my area years ago had a similar view towards people cutting and fletching their own arrows.

I always thought it would be great to see a person from this thread grab a distributor account. I know I would buy all of my supplies from that individual and I'm sure others would also.

Now what I have done when I had decent sized material orders ($300 give or take) is PM'd people on here who I was almost certain had a distributorship or LAS account and have gotten better pricing than is advertised on the internet. So Nestly if you read this you could go that route. 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

Lancaster Archery 1/8# bcy x 28.25. On line. I am not employed by them.


----------



## Fiferguy

Ok... I'm getting really, really frustrated.

I'm STILL getting peep rotation.

I have zero flex in my jig, and the posts are parallel now. I can't figure out any way of making the bundles more even than they are now. There's no way my serving is too tight--the spool is tightened just enough for it to go on clear. I'm having the same issue with bigger, more colored serving as well. I'm getting no rotation on serving with tape flags, and I use string clamps when serving.

I'm using 24 strands of BCY-X, 0.007" white BCY Halo ends, and 0.021" BCY 62XS center serving. I upgraded my jig to a Baker (and I LOVE it).

Any ideas? Could it be the tag end servings? Could that be pulling the bundles out of wack when I do the loops? I'm ready to try just about anything...

I'm having to take out about 4 twists once the string is on my bow to perfect my draw length. Could that be doing it?


----------



## automan26

How much time are you giving the string to relax from the time it is completely finished until you put it on the bow? If it does not rest under zero tension for about 8 hours you will have serious peep rotation issues.

Automan


----------



## Fiferguy

automan26 said:


> How much time are you giving the string to relax from the time it is completely finished until you put it on the bow? If it does not rest under zero tension for about 8 hours you will have serious peep rotation issues.
> 
> Automan


Minimum 12 hours, but often 24 or more.

The rotation is consistent, every time. Right around 90 degrees.


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## michaelgentry87

I'd say serving to tight halo.007 is grippy , stupid question what direction are you serving

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## Fiferguy

michaelgentry87 said:


> I'd say serving to tight halo.007 is grippy , stupid question what direction are you serving
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


I honestly can't see any way that the serving is too tight. It's barely tight enough to hold the jig to the string.

Serving in the direction of the twists.


----------



## automan26

You are twisting clockwise and serving clockwise?

Automan


----------



## Fiferguy

automan26 said:


> You are twisting clockwise and serving clockwise?
> 
> Automan


I'm serving in the direction that would tighten the twists in the direction of serving, so the same direction as I'm twisting. I think it's clockwise, but might be anticlockwise. I did it the other way once (where it was the wrong way) and it was just a mess. The serving is in the right direction for my twists.

I'm serving with the string at 300lbs and from the post toward the center for end loops. The center serving I don't really have a consistent start (bottom or top).


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## automan26

I know this next suggestion would be a big pain in the butt, but if you removed the serving, put the string back on the bow and drew it back while watching your peep you would know instantly if you do or do not have a serving issue.

Automan


----------



## BlindBuck

Wait you're using .007 for your end servings? Is your finished diameter maybe too small for the cam track and causing the issue? Everything else you're describing seems spot on. Only thing I do different is serve under 325 and I do my center Serving from top to bottom.



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## Fiferguy

automan26 said:


> I know this next suggestion would be a big pain in the butt, but if you removed the serving, put the string back on the bow and drew it back while watching your peep you would know instantly if you do or do not have a serving issue.
> 
> Automan


That does sound like a major pain in the butt.... :set1_rolf2:

I'll give it a try in a couple of days. Other than the rotation issues, the strings shoot well. The rotation is consistent, so I'm able to compensate with my D-loop, but it's annoying. I know there's a way to eliminate it.

I have a shoot tomorrow, then we'll try it again.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> That does sound like a major pain in the butt.... :set1_rolf2:
> 
> I'll give it a try in a couple of days. Other than the rotation issues, the strings shoot well. The rotation is consistent, so I'm able to compensate with my D-loop, but it's annoying. I know there's a way to eliminate it.
> 
> I have a shoot tomorrow, then we'll try it again.


If the rotation is consistent and never seems to go away or decrease, then it's a bundle tension problem. Either that or it could be something crazy like a different material for one of the bundles. Are you using 2 colors? Maybe try just one.

If that doesn't do it, try this.

Set your jig up 1/4" shorter than you want. Lay out the material and tie off the tag ends tightly. Then tension the jig until you get to the actual desired initial post setting. Let it sit like that for several minutes. That should eliminate any loose strands in the bundles. Then proceed from there as normal.

Before you serve, put a piece of masking tape around the string as a flag and run the string up and down in tension. If the flag rotates, then you know you have uneven bundle tensions.


----------



## nestly

Fiferguy said:


> Ok... I'm getting really, really frustrated.
> 
> I'm STILL getting peep rotation.
> 
> I have zero flex in my jig, and the posts are parallel now. I can't figure out any way of making the bundles more even than they are now. There's no way my serving is too tight--the spool is tightened just enough for it to go on clear. I'm having the same issue with bigger, more colored serving as well. I'm getting no rotation on serving with tape flags, and I use string clamps when serving.
> 
> I'm using 24 strands of BCY-X, 0.007" white BCY Halo ends, and 0.021" BCY 62XS center serving. I upgraded my jig to a Baker (and I LOVE it).
> 
> Any ideas? Could it be the tag end servings? Could that be pulling the bundles out of wack when I do the loops? I'm ready to try just about anything...
> 
> I'm having to take out about 4 twists once the string is on my bow to perfect my draw length. Could that be doing it?


I'd guess serving direction, too much or too little serving tension, then inconsistent strand tension in that order. After the string is built, you should be able to run the tension up and down from 0 to 300 pounds while on the stretcher and see little or no rotation near the middle of the string. If it's turning while you increase-decrease tension, then you can expect it to turn on the bow as well. 
Another thing could contribute to your problem is how you add/remove those "4 twists". If you're doing it on the bow, unwrap the end completely from the cam before twisting, otherwise it can take a lot of draw cycles for those twists to make their way around the cam. With regard to serving tension, I actually hook my serving tool up to a scale and set it so it takes 8-9 pounds to pull the serving out of the serving tool. 

My process is apparently a lot different than some of the others. I lay the string up and do the end-loops then transfer it to the twister/stretcher at about 200 lbs while I lay up the next string. After about 15-20 minutes, I add the twists then increase the tension to 300pounds and add the end-servings, and the center servings. Then it comes off the stretcher and I let it sit for 15-20 minutes while I do the next string(s) but that sting is otherwise completely ready to go in about 1 hour start to finish. I originally started with much longer stretch and rest times, but I found zero difference. In fact I even install and tie in peeps and Loops while on the stretcher so I never have to fiddle with peeps at all after installing them.


----------



## Fiferguy

Huntinsker said:


> If the rotation is consistent and never seems to go away or decrease, then it's a bundle tension problem. Either that or it could be something crazy like a different material for one of the bundles. Are you using 2 colors? Maybe try just one.
> 
> If that doesn't do it, try this.
> 
> Set your jig up 1/4" shorter than you want. Lay out the material and tie off the tag ends tightly. Then tension the jig until you get to the actual desired initial post setting. Let it sit like that for several minutes. That should eliminate any loose strands in the bundles. Then proceed from there as normal.
> 
> Before you serve, put a piece of masking tape around the string as a flag and run the string up and down in tension. If the flag rotates, then you know you have uneven bundle tensions.


I'm using 3 colors right now (10-4-10 for a pinstripe), but I've had the same problem on one, two, and three color strings. They're all BCY-X, unless my order got messed up at some point along the line (it's all labeled BCY-X, at any rate).

Could releasing the tag ends when I get ready to do my loops cause bundle tension problems?


----------



## nestly

Here's a couple videos just to make sure you're serving the correct direction. It doesn't matter whether the serving is applied from the center toward the ends, or from the ends toward the center, just make sure you're going "clockwise" in the direction the serving tool advances. The servings should mimic a standard right-handed thread on a bolt/nut.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> I'm using 3 colors right now (10-4-10 for a pinstripe), but I've had the same problem on one, two, and three color strings. They're all BCY-X, unless my order got messed up at some point along the line (it's all labeled BCY-X, at any rate).
> 
> Could releasing the tag ends when I get ready to do my loops cause bundle tension problems?


Not sure what you mean by releasing the tag ends. Do you just let them go slack for a while before wrapping them?

When I make a tag end served string, I will start at one end and pull the tag ends snug to remove the slack out of them. Then I'll do 4-5 wraps so they hold in place, tight against the post and I'll go to the other end and do the same. Pull the slack out of the tag ends and then start wrapping. 

You don't have to really horse on them to get the slack out but by pulling a little, you can actually watch the material even out around the posts. Do it at both ends to even the top half and the bottom half of both bundles.


----------



## Fiferguy

nestly said:


> Here's a couple videos just to make sure you're serving the correct direction. It doesn't matter whether the serving is applied from the center toward the ends, or from the ends toward the center, just make sure you're going "clockwise" in the direction the serving tool advances. The servings should mimic a standard right-handed thread on a bolt/nut.


I know I'm serving in the right direction. Might help some others that are having problems though. I made the mistake of serving the wrong way once. It actually untwisted the string under the serving completely. It was very easy to see it since I was using clear serving. But I'm serving in the right direction.


----------



## nestly

Fiferguy said:


> Could releasing the tag ends when I get ready to do my loops cause bundle tension problems?


When I do tag end servings, I'm careful not to ever lose tension on the tag end strand. I untie 1 and make 2 wraps which are held in place because they are pinched between the post and all the strands, then I do the same to the other tag end, then pull them tight against each other, then each gets 5 more wraps (which will all still be pinched between the post and the strands). This ensures that the first and last strands have the same tension as the others. Having said that, I don't think loosing tension on those strands would necessarily cause rotation issues, but it might make the twisted bundle more wavy and reduce the effective strength of the string from 24 strands to 22.


----------



## Fiferguy

Huntinsker said:


> Not sure what you mean by releasing the tag ends. Do you just let them go slack for a while before wrapping them?
> 
> When I make a tag end served string, I will start at one end and pull the tag ends snug to remove the slack out of them. Then I'll do 4-5 wraps so they hold in place, tight against the post and I'll go to the other end and do the same. Pull the slack out of the tag ends and then start wrapping.
> 
> You don't have to really horse on them to get the slack out but by pulling a little, you can actually watch the material even out around the posts. Do it at both ends to even the top half and the bottom half of both bundles.


Not for a while, just long enough to get the other tag end loose from where I wrap it so I can start the loops. I have been doing one at a time though. I'll do one complete loop, then do the other side.

I don't really yank on them too hard--just enough to get them to lay right. I do 5 or so wraps on both sides of the loop simultaneously so I can pull against each other (the wraps of the tag ends extend at the same time, one wrap on each side of the center of the back). Then I work on one side of the loop, get it as long as I want it, and finish that side. Then I go to the other side, get that as long as I want it, and use that to close the loop. That's one loop. Then I'll repeat the procedure on the other end. Twist and stretch, then serve the ends with Halo.


----------



## BlindBuck

Maybe it is something very simple. As I really do not see anything wrong with your build process from your description.

Have you tried drawing the bow with just a piece of string installed in the center of the bundle? If so does the string rotate 90 degrees also? If it doesn't, install the peep unserved and draw it again (don't shoot it obviously). If it then doesn't move it is just how you are serving in the peep. 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

Something strange going on. It sounds like you are doing everything correct so I am puzzled here. Following the initial directions given by the OP (modified some of the process to my build technique) I have never had a peep twist issue. And I am being honest when I say never. I have had flag twist but that never translated to peep rotation at all.


----------



## lunghit

When I make my tag ends I have no tension on the jig. I will remove one tag end with one hand but make sure I hold it against the post with my other hand. I will center the first wrap in the middle of the loop then continue to wrap that tag 5 times making sure not to pull too tight. Then I will remove the other tag and do the same.


----------



## Fiferguy

BlindBuck said:


> If it then doesn't move it is just how you are serving in the peep.


I don't serve my peeps at all. I use a constrictor knot--very secure and much cleaner. You can see a video demonstration on YouTube from Specialty Archery. So no peep serving to cause rotation.


----------



## mattafliving

Fiferguy said:


> I don't serve my peeps at all. I use a constrictor knot--very secure and much cleaner. You can see a video demonstration on YouTube from Specialty Archery. So no peep serving to cause rotation.


You said you are using the baker jigs? Are you using just a two post or the 4 post? 


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----------



## mattafliving

K.G.K. said:


> Good advise ....
> 
> Since we're on Mathews, built a harness for a Halon. I built cables to spec per Mathews. However, built the string 1/4 short per recommendation by some AT guys.
> 
> Ultimately put 8-10 twists in cables to achieve ATA and remove 8 twists in string to get proper draw weight and DL.
> 
> Back and forth, got ata, brace and DL right, just under 71 # dw.
> 
> My question is, is my string messed up since the Mathews strings are about 90% serving, those twists out of the string come from a small section of unswrved string.
> 
> I am definitely going to remake some based on these new threads measurements. Now I'm not confident on Mathews providing proper string specs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


What did you end up with for string and cable lengths to get proper specs out of the halon 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fiferguy

mattafliving said:


> You said you are using the baker jigs? Are you using just a two post or the 4 post?


I'm using a two post jig.


----------



## mattafliving

mattafliving said:


> What did you end up with for string and cable lengths to get proper specs out of the halon
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you using his locking block and setting tension to 100lbs 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fiferguy

mattafliving said:


> Are you using his locking block and setting tension to 100lbs


Yup. And everything's where it's supposed to be when I finish laying out strands and closing the loops.


----------



## mattafliving

I say get a 2 post to go with your setup and start doing endloop serving and see if that fixes the issue for you 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mattafliving

Plus you get awesome looking endloops that are super durable 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlindBuck

Fiferguy said:


> I don't serve my peeps at all. I use a constrictor knot--very secure and much cleaner. You can see a video demonstration on YouTube from Specialty Archery. So no peep serving to cause rotation.


Well then I'm of no help. I don't have a clue why you're getting rotation from the process you described.

I'll ask on more question. How many twists per inch are your finished strings? Mine end up having 1 full twist per 1.5"s of length. 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## Fiferguy

BlindBuck said:


> I don't have a clue why you're getting rotation from the process you described.


Me either... hence the frustration... 



> I'll ask on more question. How many twists per inch are your finished strings? Mine end up having 1 full twist per 1.5"s of length.


1 twist every 1.5" is what my formula is spitting out (38 twists for 56.875" string), but when I take 4 twists out for my draw length adjustment, I get 1 twist in 1.67".


----------



## automan26

Does your peep rotate during the draw or right at the very end, just before you drop into the valley?

Automan


----------



## Fiferguy

automan26 said:


> Does your peep rotate during the draw or right at the very end, just before you drop into the valley?
> 
> Automan


It seems to be pretty consistent through the draw cycle.


----------



## BlindBuck

Fiferguy said:


> Me either... hence the frustration...
> 
> 
> 
> 1 twist every 1.5" is what my formula is spitting out (38 twists for 56.875" string), but when I take 4 twists out for my draw length adjustment, I get 1 twist in 1.67".


Okay.

Only thing left is taking the four twists out. They probably are not coming out from under your serving and that could lead to the issue. Might want to adjust your formula a bit so you only take one twist out or in if anything at all.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## SamT

Been following these posts of Fiferguy and thought I'd throw my $0.02 in.

If the rotation is fairly consistent through the full draw cycle, wouldn't that indicate that one half of the string is under a different pressure than the other half? When you put the twists in the string, are you putting them in under some kind of pressure, say like 100-150 lbs, or are you twisting them under no pressure? My thoughts are that you could try putting your twists in under heavy pressure, around 200lbs, put a few in and reduce poundage, put a few more in and reduce poundage, until all the twists are in. IDK. Something to try, or not.


----------



## automan26

Maybe you could build a single color string and do not serve it, but put it on the bow and shoot a few arrows to see what the peep is doing. Next, serve the string and see if there is any change in peep rotation. It might be one way of isolating the problem. If the peep does not rotate until the string is served, serving is the issue. If the peep rotates before the string is served, the problem is located in the initial layout and twists. The worst thing that could happen is that you end up with a spare string.

Automan


----------



## nestly

automan26 said:


> Maybe you could build a single color string and do not serve it, but put it on the bow and shoot a few arrows to see what the peep is doing. Next, serve the string and see if there is any change in peep rotation. It might be one way of isolating the problem. If the peep does not rotate until the string is served, serving is the issue. If the peep rotates before the string is served, the problem is located in the initial layout and twists. The worst thing that could happen is that you end up with a spare string.
> 
> Automan


I agree with the logic, but I think you should be able to do it on the stretcher just by running the tension up/down. The more I think about it, the more I wanna blame serving tension. If I understood correctly, his end-servings are .007 Halo. I gave up on Halo as end-servings because I had trouble with .014 breaking while serving, so I'd never be able to get .007 anywhere near as tight as I like.


----------



## nuts&bolts

nestly said:


> I agree with the logic, but I think you should be able to do it on the stretcher just by running the tension up/down. The more I think about it, the more I wanna blame serving tension. If I understood correctly, his end-servings are .007 Halo. I gave up on Halo as end-servings because I had trouble with .014 breaking while serving, so I'd never be able to get .007 anywhere near as tight as I like.


Yup. Put a two inch long strand of serving thread. Apply string wax to the thread. Thread will be straight. Use a boat winch and go from 100 lbs of tension up to 300 lbs tension and back down to 100 lbs tension. The serving thread flag should be motionless the entire time going from high to low back to high and back to low tension. If the flag waves back and forth at you with a string with no serving then you have unequal strand tension and need to do better on layup of the loops.


----------



## nestly

nuts&bolts said:


> Yup. Put a two inch long strand of serving thread. Apply string wax to the thread. Thread will be straight. Use a boat winch and go from 100 lbs of tension up to 300 lbs tension and back down to 100 lbs tension. The serving thread flag should be motionless the entire time going from high to low back to high and back to low tension. If the flag waves back and forth at you with a string with no serving then you have unequal strand tension and need to do better on layup of the loops.


100 -300 isn't the normal operating tension of a bowstring so I really don't see much point in testing that range. At full draw, a lot of bows hold well under 15lbs and some as low as 5-6 pounds so at full draw, the string is only under 4 to 10 pounds tension on each side of the D-Loop, and it's been my experience that the transition from peak draw weight to full draw (full letoff) is where peep rotation is the greatest, not from 100 to 300 pounds.


----------



## skynight

One thing to watch for when running tension up and down looking at a flag is jig rotation. My little Jon will rotate slightly as tension is first started. When doing this check I will hold the post steady as I start tension.


----------



## mattafliving

skynight said:


> One thing to watch for when running tension up and down looking at a flag is jig rotation. My little Jon will rotate slightly as tension is first started. When doing this check I will hold the post steady as I start tension.


Same goes for the Baker jigs 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fiferguy

I'll try that. I'm really getting frustrated with it at this point.


----------



## nestly

Fiferguy said:


> I'll try that. I'm really getting frustrated with it at this point.


Are you by chance shooting a short ATA bow with the peep pretty close to the top end serving? All strings rotate some as pressure varies, and the higher the peep is above the center of the string, the more the peep will be affected.


----------



## Fiferguy

nestly said:


> Are you by chance shooting a short ATA bow with the peep pretty close to the top end serving? All strings rotate some as pressure varies, and the higher the peep is above the center of the string, the more the peep will be affected.


I'm shooting a Podium 37, so not really all that short.


----------



## nestly

Fiferguy said:


> I'm shooting a Podium 37, so not really all that short.


OK, I was thinking perhaps a 28-30 ATA bow being drawn 30 or so inches where the peep is like 7-8 inches above the Dloop because of the very steep string angle. If you have the ability, perhaps video your stringmaking process from start to finish... might reveal something?


----------



## Fiferguy

nestly said:


> OK, I was thinking perhaps a 28-30 ATA bow being drawn 30 or so inches where the peep is like 7-8 inches above the Dloop because of the very steep string angle.


Yeah, Podium 37 with a 27.5 draw. Peep is 6.25" above my bottom soft nock.


----------



## nestly

Fiferguy said:


> Yeah, Podium 37 with a 27.5 draw. Peep is 6.25" above my bottom soft nock.


Yeah, those dimensions certainly shouldn't be a problem, I also have a Podium37 27" DL but my peep is about an inch lower. Don't know where you're located but if your anywhere near Harrisburg PA you're welcome to stop by and try to figure things out in person. I'm sure there are a lot of others in this topic that would extend the same invite if you're local to them.


----------



## Fiferguy

nestly said:


> Yeah, those dimensions certainly shouldn't be a problem, I also have a Podium37 27" DL but my peep is about an inch lower. Don't know where you're located but if your anywhere near Harrisburg PA you're welcome to stop by and try to figure things out in person. I'm sure there are a lot of others in this topic that would extend the same invite if you're local to them.


That's a bit far for me, but I appreciate the offer. I'm in Oklahoma City. ;-)


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## mattafliving

Just a heads up. If you like using BCY products and want better pricing shoot me a Pm. I know a guy. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RatherBArchery

Anyone build a set for an Evolve 35 yet??? If so any issues with loop size?? Strand count used???


----------



## nestly

RatherBArchery said:


> Anyone build a set for an Evolve 35 yet??? If so any issues with loop size?? Strand count used???


Check the two String Makers thread(s) in Arrows and Strings subforum. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showt...&p=1097448737&highlight=Evolve#post1097448737


----------



## x-it

SamT said:


> BlindBuck, you asked if anyone had ever used this "weave" method. I haven't personally, but nearly a couple of years ago when I first started learning how to make my own strings, I took apart an old factory string and they had used a weave method to tie the two tags together for about an 1/4" before serving over the entire thing with the loop serving. They kinda, crossed the two tag ends, did a couple of figure-8 weaves with each tag, then re-crossed the tags again, then did all of this again several times.
> 
> Here's a pic I took of the "knot".
> View attachment 3709882


Anyone know how they tie theses tag ends together


----------



## TN ARCHER

Fiferguy said:


> I'll try that. I'm really getting frustrated with it at this point.



How about trying to build a string to the finished length you want instead of taking twists out of it? 

If you are removing 4 twists from your finished string...this could be just enough to cause an "uneven" twist rate from what's unserved vs what is under neath the serving. 

And how about the direction of your center serving ? Remember your twists start in the center and go in different directions from there. I always mark the dead center of the string, and depending on where my center serving overlaps that center mark depends on which direction I serve my center serving. 

Hope you get this figured out cause I know how ya feel...as I'm sure most everyone here has had the same frustrations at some point or another.


----------



## skynight

Received the 4 strand Chinese Spectra today. Here is a pic comparing, left to right, .014 halo, 40# four strand Chinese fishing Spectra, and 8 strand 40# on the right.


----------



## Huntinsker

Wow. Definitely a different weave.


----------



## Heine

Anybody ever make a serving machine?


----------



## nestly

Heine said:


> Anybody ever make a serving machine?


Yep
https://youtu.be/jsTUm1pwGOQ

https://youtu.be/PQTdnwoWOHM

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## Heine

nestly said:


> Yep
> https://youtu.be/jsTUm1pwGOQ
> 
> https://youtu.be/PQTdnwoWOHM
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Sooo That's Awesome. Did you make that?


----------



## nestly

Yes. It's a work in progress though, seems I'm always upgrading something. 

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## lunghit

nestly said:


> Yes. It's a work in progress though, seems I'm always upgrading something.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Great job on those upgrades!!!


----------



## County Hunter

Works great! Love it.


----------



## nestly

mattafliving said:


> string stretchers are almost up, waiting on some fittings that I ordered on amazon that shipped from china.


Been wanting to do that for a while... you provided the motivation. :smile: Took about 1 1/2 hours to make the brackets (red)... the rest came from McMaster-Carr or Ebay (except the 12-20 x 1/4-20 coupler on the end of the cylinder, those came from a buddy that's a toolmaker.


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## mattafliving

nestly said:


> Been wanting to do that for a while... you provided the motivation. :smile: Took about 1 1/2 hours to make the brackets (red)... the rest came from McMaster-Carr or Ebay (except the 12-20 x 1/4-20 coupler on the end of the cylinder, those came from a buddy that's a toolmaker.


Looks good 


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## Jabr357

Hey guys, I have a question about finished string / cable lengths.

I have a lot of trouble laying out the correct string dimensions/lengths to come out with the correct finished lengths (stretched, served and twisted) especially on longer strings like buss cables with yoke legs.

I use the Baker spreadsheet, but this has not always worked for me and I have wasted quite a bit of material - I am still learning.

I use mostly Bcy X, which I find quite "stretchy".

Any advice how to start with the correct lengths so as to come to reliably accurate finished lengths so as not to waste material?


----------



## mattafliving

Jabr357 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about finished string / cable lengths.
> 
> I have a lot of trouble laying out the correct string dimensions/lengths to come out with the correct finished lengths (stretched, served and twisted) especially on longer strings like buss cables with yoke legs.
> 
> I use the Baker spreadsheet, but this has not always worked for me and I have wasted quite a bit of material - I am still learning.
> 
> I use mostly Bcy X, which I find quite "stretchy".
> 
> Any advice how to start with the correct lengths so as to come to reliably accurate finished lengths so as not to waste material?


What jig are you using? 


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## nestly

My formula is: finished length X .75 (twists) X .015 and that's how much I "add" to the posts while laying up. It works for any length 24 strand string or cable (452X), BUT that's based on how much strand tension I use during layup. If someone else makes their strands tighter than I do during layup, their string would end up shorter than mine. 

ie *60"* (finished length) X .75 = 45 (twists) ---> 45 X .015 = *.675* ---> 60 + .675 = *60.675"*

Any Hybrid or Split yoke bow gets 28 strand cables, and those use a different multiplier as 28 strands stretch *less* and lose *more* length per twist than 24 strands.


----------



## deerbum

Jabr357 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about finished string / cable lengths.
> 
> I have a lot of trouble laying out the correct string dimensions/lengths to come out with the correct finished lengths (stretched, served and twisted) especially on longer strings like buss cables with yoke legs.
> 
> I use the Baker spreadsheet, but this has not always worked for me and I have wasted quite a bit of material - I am still learning.
> 
> I use mostly Bcy X, which I find quite "stretchy".
> 
> Any advice how to start with the correct lengths so as to come to reliably accurate finished lengths so as not to waste material?


Here is a link to a spreadsheet that you can make, http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4900793 
The correction outputs will quickly refine your post settings.


----------



## Jabr357

mattafliving said:


> What jig are you using?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Baker jigs

Thanks for your replies guys - much appreciated


----------



## mattafliving

Jabr357 said:


> The Baker jigs
> 
> Thanks for your replies guys - much appreciated


2, 3, or 4 post 


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## Heine

Who has used the super server 600 and the 800? How much faster is the 800 vs the 600? And is the foot peddle a big advantage?


----------



## Jabr357

mattafliving said:


> 2, 3, or 4 post
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the complete set. Great stuff.


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## mattafliving

Jabr357 said:


> I have the complete set. Great stuff.










try these setting out



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## mattafliving

Heine said:


> Who has used the super server 600 and the 800? How much faster is the 800 vs the 600? And is the foot peddle a big advantage?


I would like to know this as well 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jabr357

mattafliving said:


> try these setting out
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! Will do.


----------



## gad

Anyone have ever served using the 8 strand instead of the 4 strand. I received today the 40 lbs 0.032 - 8 strand count. It looks to slippery to make a good serving grip.


----------



## gad

automan26 said:


> K.G.K. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you buy the Chinese spectra?
> 
> Sent from my SM
> 
> Here is what I have used in the past and it worked well.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Strands-P...hash=item3a9e9efa96:m:m7VbwmG5ucCWLxdWdlorAGA
> 
> You can select the color and diameter to meet your individual needs. This stuff has worked so well for me that it is all I use now. The price is right, but you are going to have to wait a few weeks for it to come from China. The wait will be well worth it. I have ordered mainly 50# material and like it very much. I accidently ordered 60# and even though it is a bit thicker, I haven't had any problems, but I still like the 50# stuff.
> 
> Automan
> 
> 
> 
> Those 8 strand count looks to slippery. Do you get any serving separation problems with it ?
Click to expand...


----------



## Huntinsker

Jabr357 said:


> Hey guys, I have a question about finished string / cable lengths.
> 
> I have a lot of trouble laying out the correct string dimensions/lengths to come out with the correct finished lengths (stretched, served and twisted) especially on longer strings like buss cables with yoke legs.
> 
> I use the Baker spreadsheet, but this has not always worked for me and I have wasted quite a bit of material - I am still learning.
> 
> I use mostly Bcy X, which I find quite "stretchy".
> 
> Any advice how to start with the correct lengths so as to come to reliably accurate finished lengths so as not to waste material?


The advice that I give folks is to build a couple "test strings" at 30" 60" and 90" using your current formula exactly as it says. Then measure the strings and see how far off it is and adjust the formula accordingly. Say you build a 60" string using the formula and it comes out 1/4" long, you know that you need to adjust the formula so that your initial post setting is 1/4" shorter when doing strings that are approximately 60" long. 

Make a new formula for each length, 30, 60 and 90 inches, and use each individual formula for the pieces that are approximately that long. 

All these formulas assume that the amount of stretch is linear when it's not. If a 30" string needs an initial post setting 1/4" longer than the finished length, that does not mean that a 60" string will need 1/2" longer and a 90" string will need 3/4" longer. Chances are you'll see the initial post setting get closer and closer to the desired final length as the piece gets longer. This is because with more material, there's more stretch. You just have to work out what's going to work with your process.


----------



## Huntinsker

I haven't posted a picture of any strings for a while but thought I'd show one. This is for a buddy that I owed a favor to. He just got a Halon 32 in Optifade Elevated 2 camo. Here's the camo....... 









and here's the string I twisted up for it. 









That's 6 strands each of Black, tan, natural and silver 452x. The sad part is that because it's a Mathews, there is only 8.75" of exposed string on this 63 and some odd inch string after all the serving.


----------



## automan26

gad said:


> automan26 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those 8 strand count looks to slippery. Do you get any serving separation problems with it ?
> 
> 
> 
> So far it seems to be working fine. Just get is served tightly.
Click to expand...


----------



## jeffrichards

Huntinsker said:


> I haven't posted a picture of any strings for a while but thought I'd show one. This is for a buddy that I owed a favor to. He just got a Halon 32 in Optifade Elevated 2 camo. Here's the camo.......
> 
> View attachment 5918729
> 
> 
> and here's the string I twisted up for it.
> 
> View attachment 5918745
> 
> 
> That's 6 strands each of Black, tan, natural and silver 452x. The sad part is that because it's a Mathews, there is only 8.75" of exposed string on this 63 and some odd inch string after all the serving.


Looks good man!!! 


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## TN ARCHER

Has anyone tried this stuff for serving?
View attachment 5925217

It has 7 strands of Dynema and 1 strand of gore. I saw it while picking up some of the fireline crystal to try. I'm not crazy about the size.... 20# is .009. I'm testing it on my girlfriends bow as cable slide protection. It laid up a lot like halo.


----------



## automan26

That's some interesting material. I have never used it, but it looks like it would work great through a cable slide.

Automan


----------



## TN ARCHER

automan26 said:


> That's some interesting material. I have never used it, but it looks like it would work great through a cable slide.
> 
> Automan


I think so too! I will keep y'all up to date on how it "wears".


----------



## Hogwire Strings

Hey Guys, Huntinsker asked for some builders to post about purchasing materials. We buy a ton of BCY and Brownell material weekly, if you need anything feel free to shoot me a PM or email me at [email protected] and I can send you pricing. Thanks!


----------



## TN ARCHER

Hogwire Strings said:


> Hey Guys, Huntinsker asked for some builders to post about purchasing materials. We buy a ton of BCY and Brownell material weekly, if you need anything feel free to shoot me a PM or email me at [email protected] and I can send you pricing. Thanks!


I will most definitely give you a shout when I'm need of more material. :thumbs_up

Will you sell in small quantities? Most of us "self builders " only need a few spools at a time. 

Thanks!


----------



## Coug09

Huntinsker said:


> I haven't posted a picture of any strings for a while but thought I'd show one. This is for a buddy that I owed a favor to. He just got a Halon 32 in Optifade Elevated 2 camo. Here's the camo.......
> 
> View attachment 5918729
> 
> 
> and here's the string I twisted up for it.
> 
> View attachment 5918745
> 
> 
> That's 6 strands each of Black, tan, natural and silver 452x. The sad part is that because it's a Mathews, there is only 8.75" of exposed string on this 63 and some odd inch string after all the serving.


That's why I like to use clear serving on my Mathews!

Rob at Hogwire is great to deal with. He will sell you whatever you need at a great price


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## Hogwire Strings

Absolutely! You can order 1/8lbs and jig spools with no min order......... 



TN ARCHER said:


> I will most definitely give you a shout when I'm need of more material. :thumbs_up
> 
> Will you sell in small quantities? Most of us "self builders " only need a few spools at a time.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Coug09

How long are you guys letting your strings relax after stretching and before serving?


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## nestly

Coug09 said:


> How long are you guys letting your strings relax after stretching and before serving?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not at all for me. I layup, twist/stretch, and serve consecutively. I initially included lengthy stretch/relax periods in the build process but found no difference if the those times were reduced, or even eliminated completely. 

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## mattafliving

Coug09 said:


> How long are you guys letting your strings relax after stretching and before serving?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I prefer to let me strings relax for a few hours after stretching normally but I would do a minimum of 45 mins. I believe strings need a chance to recover from being at 400lbs plus before checking final string length. You can check this your self by taking a string right off the stretcher and measure it at 100 lbs and then let it rest for bit and then check it again at 100 and you'll see a difference in length. 


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## mattafliving

On another note I also place an order wth BCY once a week normally so if Rob isn't available you can shoot me a message. 


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## nestly

mattafliving said:


> I prefer to let me strings relax for a few hours after stretching normally but I would do a minimum of 45 mins. I believe strings need a chance to recover from being at 400lbs plus before checking final string length. You can check this your self by taking a string right off the stretcher and measure it at 100 lbs and then let it rest for bit and then check it again at 100 and you'll see a difference in length.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree that a string will measure longer 1 minute after being held at 300+ pounds for a while than after 30 minutes (or even 5 minutes) of relax time, but I havent found any difference in the final length whether its allowed to "relax" before or after serving. 

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Hey Rob thanks for posting here. 

If anyone hasn't heard of Rob's new Speed Chambers, you need to check them out. I installed some for the first time on my buddie's Halon 32 that I made that tan, black, natural and silver string for. It would have been 26 individual brass nocks but with Rob's speed chambers, it was only 3 solid pieces of machined brass on each end. Much easier to work with and they looked awesome. I wish I would have taken a picture to post up and show everybody. 

Because they're one solid piece, they hold the string more securely than individual brass nocks and you can get them in any size you want pretty much. I used two 5 section lengths and one 3 section length on each end of that string. It took a fraction of the time as it would have if I had to do 26 individual and it was easier to make look good because the groove will face the exact same way since it's just a single groove. Don't have to try and line up each individual nock anymore. Great product from a great guy and asset to the string building community.


----------



## Huntinsker

I still let my pieces relax for a couple hours. Not sure that it's totally necessary but I like to. If you're a new builder and you don't have your process or length down pat, you may need to add twists or remove twists from the piece to get your desired final length. If that's the case, it's better to do it before you serve than try and do it after. Especially if there's long stretches of serving that'll cover most of the string.


----------



## Huntinsker

Coug09 said:


> That's why I like to use clear serving on my Mathews!
> 
> Rob at Hogwire is great to deal with. He will sell you whatever you need at a great price
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thought about it but the colors didn't lend themselves well to clear. Looked like milk under it on my tester string that I spun up haha.


----------



## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> I still let my pieces relax for a couple hours. Not sure that it's totally necessary but I like to. If you're a new builder and you don't have your process or length down pat, you may need to add twists or remove twists from the piece to get your desired final length. If that's the case, it's better to do it before you serve than try and do it after. Especially if there's long stretches of serving that'll cover most of the string.


I totally agree. Even now that I do not have to make adjustments since getting my formulas set, I still like to verify my string lengths before serving. 


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----------



## Coug09

Huntinsker said:


> I still let my pieces relax for a couple hours. Not sure that it's totally necessary but I like to. If you're a new builder and you don't have your process or length down pat, you may need to add twists or remove twists from the piece to get your desired final length. If that's the case, it's better to do it before you serve than try and do it after. Especially if there's long stretches of serving that'll cover most of the string.


Yeah I haven't had very many that I don't have to add/remove a twist or two and I've built a bunch of sets now! Lol. 

I'm doing some testing on this subject right now and will report back


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## Coug09

I've been wondering, why doesn't someone make a 4 post jog that you can tension up to say 200lbs? That way you could even out strand tension and be able to serve endloop serving tighter. It would have to be a beefy design but it think it'd be beneficial. 

I use my stretcher in conjunction with my 4 post to somewhat accomplish this but I would like to see a 4 post you can tension somehow. 


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----------



## mattafliving

Coug09 said:


> I've been wondering, why doesn't someone make a 4 post jog that you can tension up to say 200lbs? That way you could even out strand tension and be able to serve endloop serving tighter. It would have to be a beefy design but it think it'd be beneficial.
> 
> I use my stretcher in conjunction with my 4 post to somewhat accomplish this but I would like to see a 4 post you can tension somehow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I tension my baker 4 post using 30 inch test string I made probably like you do, but it would be nice to have a 4 post that had its own tensioning device for it. 


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----------



## Huntinsker

Coug09 said:


> I've been wondering, why doesn't someone make a 4 post jog that you can tension up to say 200lbs? That way you could even out strand tension and be able to serve endloop serving tighter. It would have to be a beefy design but it think it'd be beneficial.
> 
> I use my stretcher in conjunction with my 4 post to somewhat accomplish this but I would like to see a 4 post you can tension somehow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do that with 2 short strings and looping the middle over my 2 post stretcher. You could however just bolt/weld a piece of steel bar to a stretcher and put a post on each end but serving that end would be difficult unless you made the posts very tall in which case I'd imagine you'd have a hard time dealing with the flex.


----------



## mattafliving

Couple of strings sets I made recently. Couldn't have done it without the knowledge in this forum. Thanks to all of you who have shared.










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## Coug09

Yeah I've been doing the test string and works fairly well. I'd like to have Butch's updated 4 post design that has the lockdown nobs because I've been trying a different way too. 

I just think there would be a lot of benefits for a beefy 4 post that has its own tensioning device built in. I believe Rob at Hogwire has one that he had custom made. It'd really help with even strand tension and be able to really get the endloop servings tight with minimal twist 


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----------



## Hogwire Strings

i have a bunch of custom made stuff, and a few brownell 4 posts as well



Coug09 said:


> Yeah I've been doing the test string and works fairly well. I'd like to have Butch's updated 4 post design that has the lockdown nobs because I've been trying a different way too.
> 
> I just think there would be a lot of benefits for a beefy 4 post that has its own tensioning device built in. I believe Rob at Hogwire has one that he had custom made. It'd really help with even strand tension and be able to really get the endloop servings tight with minimal twist
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hogwire Strings

glad you like em bro. for anyone who wants speed chambers or tpus you can get them at hogwirehunt.com under the shop tab!



Huntinsker said:


> Hey Rob thanks for posting here.
> 
> If anyone hasn't heard of Rob's new Speed Chambers, you need to check them out. I installed some for the first time on my buddie's Halon 32 that I made that tan, black, natural and silver string for. It would have been 26 individual brass nocks but with Rob's speed chambers, it was only 3 solid pieces of machined brass on each end. Much easier to work with and they looked awesome. I wish I would have taken a picture to post up and show everybody.
> 
> Because they're one solid piece, they hold the string more securely than individual brass nocks and you can get them in any size you want pretty much. I used two 5 section lengths and one 3 section length on each end of that string. It took a fraction of the time as it would have if I had to do 26 individual and it was easier to make look good because the groove will face the exact same way since it's just a single groove. Don't have to try and line up each individual nock anymore. Great product from a great guy and asset to the string building community.


----------



## Fiferguy

UPDATE:

As some of you might remember, I've been having string rotation issues, so I built an experimental string yesterday. I didn't have any rotation (tested with a tape flag and tensioning/detensioning the string) after I closed the loops.

This time I didn't use the tag ends to close the end loops--I kept the strands tensioned at about 100lbs, and served the end loops with some spare bowstring material. That worked great, and didn't have any strand tension issues. From what others had said and my own suspicions, I thought that might be the problem. Twisted up great, stretched for a couple hours, and then flagged and detensioned/retensioned with no rotation.

So step 1 was a success...

Then I started serving. Served one side and rechecked--getting rotation. Took that serving off and rechecked--no rotation. Reserved using EXTREMELY light tension--no rotation. But it was so light tension that the serving didn't turn clear at all--just slightly less hazy. The serving jig would come off the string if I spun it too fast or hard.

Served the other side--getting rotation. 

*So here's the question--Is 0.007" Halo THAT grabby? I have some 0.014" Halo that I'll try this time--it's just not clear.*

When I was removing the serving to start again, I accidentally cut the string, so I'll have to lay out a new experiment. I'm making it the same length as what I use on my bow--so it's not a mini-string. Wasting some string material, but if I get better strings I don't care.


----------



## skynight

Fiferguy said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> As some of you might remember, I've been having string rotation issues, so I built an experimental string yesterday. I didn't have any rotation (tested with a tape flag and tensioning/detensioning the string) after I closed the loops.
> 
> This time I didn't use the tag ends to close the end loops--I kept the strands tensioned at about 100lbs, and served the end loops with some spare bowstring material. That worked great, and didn't have any strand tension issues. From what others had said and my own suspicions, I thought that might be the problem. Twisted up great, stretched for a couple hours, and then flagged and detensioned/retensioned with no rotation.
> 
> So step 1 was a success...
> 
> Then I started serving. Served one side and rechecked--getting rotation. Took that serving off and rechecked--no rotation. Reserved using EXTREMELY light tension--no rotation. But it was so light tension that the serving didn't turn clear at all--just slightly less hazy. The serving jig would come off the string if I spun it too fast or hard.
> 
> Served the other side--getting rotation.
> 
> *So here's the question--Is 0.007" Halo THAT grabby? I have some 0.014" Halo that I'll try this time--it's just not clear.*
> 
> When I was removing the serving to start again, I accidentally cut the string, so I'll have to lay out a new experiment. I'm making it the same length as what I use on my bow--so it's not a mini-string. Wasting some string material, but if I get better strings I don't care.


Are you using string clamps? What tension is string under?


----------



## mattafliving

Fiferguy said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> As some of you might remember, I've been having string rotation issues, so I built an experimental string yesterday. I didn't have any rotation (tested with a tape flag and tensioning/detensioning the string) after I closed the loops.
> 
> This time I didn't use the tag ends to close the end loops--I kept the strands tensioned at about 100lbs, and served the end loops with some spare bowstring material. That worked great, and didn't have any strand tension issues. From what others had said and my own suspicions, I thought that might be the problem. Twisted up great, stretched for a couple hours, and then flagged and detensioned/retensioned with no rotation.
> 
> So step 1 was a success...
> 
> Then I started serving. Served one side and rechecked--getting rotation. Took that serving off and rechecked--no rotation. Reserved using EXTREMELY light tension--no rotation. But it was so light tension that the serving didn't turn clear at all--just slightly less hazy. The serving jig would come off the string if I spun it too fast or hard.
> 
> Served the other side--getting rotation.
> 
> *So here's the question--Is 0.007" Halo THAT grabby? I have some 0.014" Halo that I'll try this time--it's just not clear.*
> 
> When I was removing the serving to start again, I accidentally cut the string, so I'll have to lay out a new experiment. I'm making it the same length as what I use on my bow--so it's not a mini-string. Wasting some string material, but if I get better strings I don't care.


For end serving I would use the .014 just for the fact that is will sit properly in the cam grooves according to the manufactures design. Is there a reason why you are using it for end serving?


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## Fiferguy

skynight said:


> Are you using string clamps? What tension is string under?


Yes, I'm using string clamps. And it's at 300lbs when I'm serving.


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## Fiferguy

mattafliving said:


> For end serving I would use the .014 just for the fact that is will sit properly in the cam grooves according to the manufactures design. Is there a reason why you are using it for end serving?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I like how the smaller serving looks, and it seems to fit well in the cam grooves.


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## Heine

For everybody using a super server. What tension is everybody TWISTING with. I have just moved to a super server and am getting bumps after twisting. I don't get the bumps when twisting with the baker jig.


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## mattafliving

Heine said:


> For everybody using a super server. What tension is everybody TWISTING with. I have just moved to a super server and am getting bumps after twisting. I don't get the bumps when twisting with the baker jig.


100psi


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## mattafliving

Heine said:


> For everybody using a super server. What tension is everybody TWISTING with. I have just moved to a super server and am getting bumps after twisting. I don't get the bumps when twisting with the baker jig.


Correction 100lbs of tension not psi


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## Heine

Ok I will turn my pressure down when twisting. What are you using to separate the strands? And thank you for the help.


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## mattafliving

Heine said:


> Ok I will turn my pressure down when twisting. What are you using to separate the strands? And thank you for the help.


Golf tees work the best for me. 


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## Heine

You separate with golf tees and twist at 100 pounds? What speed and do you ever get the bumps?


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## automan26

Heine said:


> You separate with golf tees and twist at 100 pounds? What speed and do you ever get the bumps?


Bumps are not caused by improper twisting. Bumps are caused by being overly aggressive when burnishing.

Automan


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## nestly

automan26 said:


> Bumps are not caused by improper twisting. Bumps are caused by being overly aggressive when burnishing.
> 
> Automan


I'd amend that somewhat. IMO bumps are the result of inconsistent strand tension in the twisted string, and aggressive burnishing is one of the factors that will cause inconsistent strand tension in the finished string even if the strand tension during layup was consistent.


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## Heine

I twisted with the specialty and burnished the string. When I relaxed, I saw bumps. I made a second string in the same manner. I twisted with the super server and did not burnish. When I relaxed, I saw bumps. I made a third string in the same manner. I twisted on my baker and burnished. No bumps. I have made a lot of strings with the baker. The first time I saw bumps was when I started using the super server to twist.


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## nestly

Heine said:


> I twisted with the specialty and burnished the string. When I relaxed, I saw bumps. I made a second string in the same manner. I twisted with the super server and did not burnish. When I relaxed, I saw bumps. I made a third string in the same manner. I twisted on my baker and burnished. No bumps. I have made a lot of strings with the baker. The first time I saw bumps was when I started using the super server to twist.


So you build everything on the same jig (Baker) and then transfer it to the SS? Tag end served or end loop served?

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## Heine

Lay up and tag end the end loops on the baker. Then transfer to the specialty for twisting and serving. That is when I started to get the "bumps". Suggestions are welcome!!! Did that answer your question?


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## nestly

Heine said:


> Lay up and tag end the end loops on the baker. Then transfer to the specialty for twisting and serving. That is when I started to get the "bumps". Suggestions are welcome!!! Did that answer your question?


The most trouble o had with bumps is when i first tried tag end serving. I was pulling the tag ends too tight, so the first and last strands in the string were tighter than all the others. I figured it out after a few tries but I still prefer end loops because you "close" the loops without ever loosening the tag ends so there's no opportunity​ to alter the 1st and last strand tension.

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## Heine

Makes sense. But I have been doing end loops the same way for a while without a problem. I cant get away from thinking it has something to do with the way I am twisting on the specialty. The first time I ever had the bumps was when I used the specialty. Do you think it may be related to me twisting under too much tension?


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## nestly

Heine said:


> Makes sense. But I have been doing end loops the same way for a while without a problem. I cant get away from thinking it has something to do with the way I am twisting on the specialty. The first time I ever had the bumps was when I used the specialty. Do you think it may be related to me twisting under too much tension?


Well, if that's the only variable, then it's logical that the issue is somehow related to the tension while twisting.

Twisting with a pneumatic cylinder is different than twisting with a "spring" because with a spring, the tension increases as twists are added. But with an air cylinder, the piston merely yields to the shortening string and overall tension remains the same throughout the twisting process.
Personally, I've experimented with twisting on an air stretcher while at 50 pounds tension and at 300 pounds of tension (and practically everywhere in between), and I can't say I've seen any difference. EXCEPT, you have to be careful about over-tensioning a pinstripe string while the separators are still in because the pinstripe strands are deflected more by the separators than the main bundle, which means they get stretched more.


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## Heine

Very interesting and thanks for the Ingo. I will try to twist a string later under lower tension and see how it goes.


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## Heine

Just made a string. Twisted about 35 psi on the specialty. Burnished very lightly down and back. I still have small bumps. They appear much smaller. I will stretch the string all night and see if they settle away. This is very puzzling. Also I took the string I twisted with the baker off of the stretcher and it is smooth! I don't get it.


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## Heine

I still have bumps. I don't understand this one.


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## Heine

When I "dug into" the string I noticed something. In the past when separating the two colors to install a peep sight the two different colors separate relatively easy. However, when looking at the "bumpy string" the strands from the different colors appear to be more intertwined and much more difficult to separate. Do you guys think this may have something to do with the "bumps"?


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## automan26

For those looking to build your own jig, I just updated the PowerPoint in the Dropbox link in my signature. Be patient, sometimes it opens slooooooooowly.

Automan


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## automan26

Heine said:


> When I "dug into" the string I noticed something. In the past when separating the two colors to install a peep sight the two different colors separate relatively easy. However, when looking at the "bumpy string" the strands from the different colors appear to be more intertwined and much more difficult to separate. Do you guys think this may have something to do with the "bumps"?


That is EXACTLY what is causing your bumps. Once the string has been stretched it wants to shrink back to its relaxed length after it has been tensioned. When burnishing under tension, the wax welds the fibers together and they have no way to relax individually; they are locked together and have to relax as a bundle and this causes the bumps. I like to gently burnish under about 200# of tension, then stretch the string to about 300# and serve it up. Pulling the burnished string from 200# to 300# tends to break the adhesion caused by the wax and returns the strands to individual units, not a single welded bundle.

Automan


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## nestly

Heine said:


> When I "dug into" the string I noticed something. In the past when separating the two colors to install a peep sight the two different colors separate relatively easy. However, when looking at the "bumpy string" the strands from the different colors appear to be more intertwined and much more difficult to separate. Do you guys think this may have something to do with the "bumps"?


I'll explain my theory this way and you can decide for yourself if it's a reasonable explaination. When a twisted string is made from dis-similar materials, or when the individual strands in a twisted string are not under the same tensions, The shorter/tighter strands will tend to migrate toward the center of the bundle, while the longer/looser strands remain toward the outside. 

When the tension from such a string is removed, the shorter/tighter strands will relax more than the longer/looser strands. Since they're all twisted against each other (and stuck together with wax) the shorter/tighter strands are trying to pull the longer/looser strands beyond their natural relaxed length which causes them to "puff out" (ie bump) Another way to visualize it would be to imagine 1 strand in your string is very stretchy (like a rubber band). When tension is removed, the "rubber band" embedded in the string will try to compress it, and strings/ropes don't react well to compression.


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## Heine

Thank you guys for your input. I will try to pay more attention to my individual strand tension and will change my burnishing process. I truly appreciate you two offering your advice. Thanks again.


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## Heine

Do you guys think the strands could get crossed over one another (uneven) when I transfer the untwisted string from the jig to the server?


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## nestly

Heine said:


> Do you guys think the strands could get crossed over one another (uneven) when I transfer the untwisted string from the jig to the server?


Not so much with tag ends servings, because the loops are already set and the strands should be "stacked" in the order they were layed out. End loop servings on a 4 post are tricky to transfer and keep everything in order.


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## Heine

When building a two color string why is it necessary to use 2 golf tees to create the "x" and split the colors? Could you only use one golf tee and just separate the colors form each other?


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## nestly

Heine said:


> When building a two color string why is it necessary to use 2 golf tees to create the "x" and split the colors? Could you only use one golf tee and just separate the colors form each other?


You could probably get away with only 1 horizontal tee near each end separating the colors because the jig/stretcher post is already a vertical separator between the left and right bundle. I don't see a down-side to using two golf tees though, so I never even tried with only 1 at each end. (I don't use any golf tees when twisting single color strings)

This brings up another question about your process. When do you remove the tees? I usually pull them out after adding about 25% of the total twists, and I usually drop the pressure pretty low before removing them.


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## Heine

Ok I usually remove the tees after about one third of the total twists. Thanks for the help.


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## Heine

And I also lower the pressure. Do you wrap one of the tag ends around the opposite side creating a loop prior to twisting?


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## nestly

Heine said:


> And I also lower the pressure. Do you wrap one of the tag ends around the opposite side creating a loop prior to twisting?


No.


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## mattafliving

nestly said:


> You could probably get away with only 1 horizontal tee near each end separating the colors because the jig/stretcher post is already a vertical separator between the left and right bundle. I don't see a down-side to using two golf tees though, so I never even tried with only 1 at each end. (I don't use any golf tees when twisting single color strings)
> 
> This brings up another question about your process. When do you remove the tees? I usually pull them out after adding about 25% of the total twists, and I usually drop the pressure pretty low before removing them.


I leave mine in until the very end. Helps when you have to chase a pin to get it on top. 


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> You could probably get away with only 1 horizontal tee near each end separating the colors because the jig/stretcher post is already a vertical separator between the left and right bundle. I don't see a down-side to using two golf tees though, so I never even tried with only 1 at each end. (I don't use any golf tees when twisting single color strings)
> 
> This brings up another question about your process. When do you remove the tees? I usually pull them out after adding about 25% of the total twists, and I usually drop the pressure pretty low before removing them.





mattafliving said:


> I leave mine in until the very end. Helps when you have to chase a pin to get it on top.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I only use 1 tee in each end for 2 color strings now and don't have any problems with it. I also like to remove the tees after about 1/3 of the twists so the strands don't get too tight around the tees and begin to stretch at different rates.

I always will wrap a scrap piece of material between the pinstripes and main colors to chase them if need be. That way I can remove the separators before fully twisting the string and still chase the pins without reducing the tension and trying to separate them after the fact.


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## Irish Sitka

Can someone just refresh my memory please?
How many strands in the string and how many in the cables?
I am using Fury.


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## freefall619

Irish Sitka said:


> Can someone just refresh my memory please?
> How many strands in the string and how many in the cables?
> I am using Fury.


I rely on the website info. Normal string is 28 strand. On occasion I use 32 strand for cables. 


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## Irish Sitka

Thank you Freefall619.
That is what I put together with 40lb Chinese Braided Fishing line for serving.
On my Strother SX1 the cable is 32 strand and it is proud over the cam, just wanted to check if I had it right.


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## Fiferguy

As some of y'all know, I've been having issues with peep rotation. So I've been making LOTS of test strings, trying different things to see if that fixes things. I've learned a lot through the process, but I'm still having problems.

Thinking I might be getting some flex in my assembly, even though it was bolted to my desk, I've added stiffening to my jig (a 2x6 that my unistrut is now lag screwed into every 6" on the skinny side). I tried pretensioning the strands at 100lbs for 20 minutes to even out the tension and serving with tag ends. I've tried leaving the tension at 100lbs and serving with actual serving--basically what you would do on a 4-post jig, without the 4-post. I've tried different amounts of stretching time, from 1 hour to 48 hours. I've tried different colors, same colors, and different spools--all are BCY-X. I've tried serving with different serving materials--BCY 3D, BCY Halo 0.007", BCY Halo 0.014", Chinese fishing line. I've tried waiting to burnish the string until after I stretch, and I've tried burnishing immediately after twisting and tensioning.

Every time I got rotation in the string.

So I'm thinking that maybe my testing method is the problem? The way I've been testing is this:

1. Lay out strands and serve (either tag end or mock-4 post, depending on attempt).
2. Twist string, tension, and burnish (varied depending on attempt).
3. Put a tape flag on approximately middle of string.
4. Detension and retension jig to check for rotation.

I've had rotation every time at this stage. I can't see how I'm still getting rotation. I had thought for a while that it was because I was tag end serving the loops, and that was causing me to lose/gain strand tension when I was doing the loops. But I'm getting rotation when I don't take the tag ends loose and equalize strand tension at 100lbs for 20 minutes. I can't see that I'm getting uneven strand tension with the latest attempt.

My latest attempt:
1. Lay out strands and secure ends to jig.
2. Tension jig to 100lbs for 20 minutes to allow for strands to equalize. (I felt the strands after 20 minutes, and they felt evenly tensioned across all strands)
3. Serve end loops without closing loops--like would happen on a 4-post jig.
4. Twist string (clockwise looking down from twisting end of jig at 100lbs tension) 34 twists (my formula calls for 38 twists on a 56.88" string, but I always end up taking 4 twists out to adjust for my draw length) and tension string to 300lbs.
5. Immediately burnish with spare serving.
6. Allow to stretch overnight, approximately 8 hours.
7. Tested using method above.

I'm still getting twist. Interestingly enough, this latest test is getting twist in the opposite direction of all my other attempts, in about the same amount (around 1/8). I've twisted the string in the same direction every string I've made.


Any ideas? Is it my testing method that's causing me all the problems? Help?


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## NP Archery

Does this 1/8 rotation on your stretcher equal the same amount of rotation when it is installed on the bow ?


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## SamT

Do you still get peep rotation after installing on bow and putting about 50 shots on it?

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## Fiferguy

I haven't installed any of my test strings on the bow as I was still getting rotation in the jig. In my mind I was seeing rotation on jig=rotation on bow. Also, if it's rotating on the jig before it's served, won't the serving just make it worse?


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## skynight

Here's a video of reserving my buddy's end serving using the beiter twister.

http://s1131.photobucket.com/user/csgomes/media/Mobile Uploads/VID_20170607_0840486232.mp4.html


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## NP Archery

Fiferguy said:


> I haven't installed any of my test strings on the bow as I was still getting rotation in the jig. In my mind I was seeing rotation on jig=rotation on bow. Also, if it's rotating on the jig before it's served, won't the serving just make it worse?


I'm betting you have tossed some good threads. 

While it would be just great if the "tape flag" stayed solid while we whirl away applying some astronomical poundage to our string .... the real truth is that some reasonable "flag twisting" on a uninstalled string does not always transfer to the bow. If your "flag" stays fairly steady up to say about #150, there is a good chance it will be rock solid once installed.

Many strings down the road you will be able to spot the bad ones right away.......if you have any.


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## Hogwire Strings

Putting in material orders friday if yall need anything let me know


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## automan26

NP Archery said:


> I'm betting you have tossed some good threads.
> 
> While it would be just great if the "tape flag" stayed solid while we whirl away applying some astronomical poundage to our string .... the real truth is that some reasonable "flag twisting" on a uninstalled string does not always transfer to the bow. If your "flag" stays fairly steady up to say about #150, there is a good chance it will be rock solid once installed.
> 
> Many strings down the road you will be able to spot the bad ones right away.......if you have any.


I agree...You often cannot assess peep rotation until the string is on the bow and has been shot-in. You may not have the problem you think you have. 

Automan


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## Huntinsker

I agree about the peep twist vs flag twist. I've had some strings that did a little twist on the jig but were totally solid on the bow. We have to remember that the max poundage your string will see is 70, maybe 80lb. That much weight is very easy to blow past on a stretcher and then we're watching what a couple hundred pounds is going to do. Doesn't always behave the same. 

The crappy part is that you can't find out until it's been served and installed. This can be a frustrating hobby if you like perfect strings like most here do haha.


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## nestly

I think you guys are underestimating the tension strings are under on the bow. 

Do this, tension a string to 100pounds on your stretcher then using your thumb and forefinger, try to put "Z-bend" in the string. Now do the same thing to the bowstring on a strung bow and compare.
Similarly, run the tension up to 200 pounds on the stretcher and compare how much "Z" bend you can put in it with your fingers compared to the buss cable on a bow at full draw in a draw board.

One of these days I'm gonna build a set of test strings for a bow so I can insert a load cell in the middle to measure the actual tension on each at brace and full draw.


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## mattafliving

nestly said:


> I think you guys are underestimating the tension strings are under on the bow.
> 
> Do this, tension a string to 100pounds on your stretcher then using your thumb and forefinger, try to put "Z-bend" in the string. Now do the same thing to the bowstring on a strung bow and compare.
> Similarly, run the tension up to 200 pounds on the stretcher and compare how much "Z" bend you can put in it with your fingers compared to the buss cable on a bow at full draw in a draw board.
> 
> One of these days I'm gonna build a set of test strings for a bow so I can insert a load cell in the middle to measure the actual tension on each at brace and full draw.


I can actually just take my bow in to work and use a tensiometer that we use for rigging flight control cables and get some readings. This will be fun. 


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## nestly

mattafliving said:


> I can actually just take my bow in to work and use a tensiometer that we use for rigging flight control cables and get some readings. This will be fun.


Interested in seeing your results. it's actually pretty easy to calculate the string load based on the draw force curve and string angles during the draw cycle. Tension in the cables are hard to calculate, but I know the buss cable on a hybrid system is tighter than a banjo string at full draw, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's well over 200#.


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## Coug09

Has anyone noticed Fury being slightly more prone to serving separation? Most likely due to its slick nature


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## automan26

What type of separation problem are you having? I haven't had a problem myself, but that doesn't mean there may not be a problem.

Automan


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## Coug09

It's only on a couple cam styles when using Bullwhip or Halo. On the cables where it bends over the cam. I've tested some different things but on my Halon X Comp I have to really try to burnish where I'm serving and use heavy tension. I prefer building with Fury but X doesn't seem to separate the same. Bundle size is equal. I'm very particular on that because of holding weight


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## jato4x4

Thanks for everything in this thread. I just finished building/getting my jig setup. Gonna be making some strings now. Ignore the mess behind it. Trying to find a new home for the fish tank supplies and rearrange the bow-cave.


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## deerbum

nestly said:


> I think you guys are underestimating the tension strings are under on the bow.
> 
> Do this, tension a string to 100pounds on your stretcher then using your thumb and forefinger, try to put "Z-bend" in the string. Now do the same thing to the bowstring on a strung bow and compare.
> Similarly, run the tension up to 200 pounds on the stretcher and compare how much "Z" bend you can put in it with your fingers compared to the buss cable on a bow at full draw in a draw board.
> 
> One of these days I'm gonna build a set of test strings for a bow so I can insert a load cell in the middle to measure the actual tension on each at brace and full draw.


One thing to consider with this is the span of the string you are trying to bend, the span on an installed string is less than 30" on a typical hunting bow. It would seem the shorter the span, the more effort it would take to bend it. I built a cable the other day and it was much more difficult to bend the 35" cable at 100#'s than the 29" span of string on my 52# bow.
Welcome to the club Jato!


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## automan26

Has anyone here used BCY Mercury? I am wondering how it compares to Fury.

Automan


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## Hogwire Strings

Mercury is one of my best sellers currently. Been using a ton of it the last few months........ Mercury is sk99 so its a better grade of material an smaller. 28 strands of fury is about 32-34 of Mercury. Ive found mercury to be very durable , faster than anything ive used and crazy stable. So far I am very happy and some of the colors are a little more vibrant and not pastel colored (flo orange to be specific). Not to knock on FURY, cuz its an awesome material (ive used a roll or two :darkbeer but I am loving Mercury.



automan26 said:


> Has anyone here used BCY Mercury? I am wondering how it compares to Fury.
> 
> Automan


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## Huntinsker

Heard a lot of good about Mercury. Brownell launched "Rampage" which is their SK99 "Fury" but it's not been out very long. Initial reports that I saw on that said there was a lot of wax in it but I'm sure that'll be remedied easily. I personally like the wax that Brownell uses over BCY. Something about it is tacky but smoother without it being as messy.

These companies make new materials faster than I can use what I have and faster than my bank account can afford the new stuff!!!!


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## Terrace bulls

Wondering?if I could get some advice. Making string and and cable for friend. Matthews Creed. I have read a bit about how Matthews specs are off. Don't have have access to the bow. Would you build to spec?? Or do you have some experience in building short or long?
Thanks


----------



## TN ARCHER

Fiferguy said:


> I'm still getting twist. Interestingly enough, this latest test is getting twist in the opposite direction of all my other attempts, in about the same amount (around 1/8). I've twisted the string in the same direction every string I've made.
> 
> 
> Any ideas? Is it my testing method that's causing me all the problems? Help?


Approximately how many pounds are you increasing/decreasing your poundage when checking for rotation with the "flag"?


----------



## RatherBArchery

may be a DUMB question but when building the string itself, say it has 24 strands, where do you insert the reminder string for the peep?? I use a two post jig so would it be laid across the string after the 12th wrap or down through the divided string after it is all wrapped??? I hope this makes sense....


----------



## Jan Enthoven

RatherBArchery said:


> may be a DUMB question but when building the string itself, say it has 24 strands, where do you insert the reminder string for the peep?? I use a two post jig so would it be laid across the string after the 12th wrap or down through the divided string after it is all wrapped??? I hope this makes sense....


Depending on what you want to do. If you make a 2 color string and you want the peep to sit between the two colors insert it between colors, otherwise down the middle. 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A3003 met Tapatalk


----------



## RatherBArchery

It just seems I struggle to get the peep to sit square at rest????


----------



## Huntinsker

RatherBArchery said:


> It just seems I struggle to get the peep to sit square at rest????


Does it turn square at full draw so it's rotating on the way back or does it stay still on the way back with no rotation?


----------



## Huntinsker

Terrace bulls said:


> Wondering?if I could get some advice. Making string and and cable for friend. Matthews Creed. I have read a bit about how Matthews specs are off. Don't have have access to the bow. Would you build to spec?? Or do you have some experience in building short or long?
> Thanks


I've never built for a Mathews Creed but I've also never built for a Mathews single cam of any type where the advertised string specs actually worked to get the bow in spec. I'd at least go 1/4" short on the cable and maybe 1/8" short on the string.


----------



## Terrace bulls

Ok thanks I will give it a try.


----------



## RatherBArchery

Huntinsker said:


> Does it turn square at full draw so it's rotating on the way back or does it stay still on the way back with no rotation?


This particular string turns a very small amount, thinking of trashing this string but it looks so purdy......LOL


----------



## zotparkerm

Empty Serving Spools:
I have been searching but can find no info on where to get empty spools for loading up my serving tools with a variety of fishing line 
Does anyone have a source?
Thanks


----------



## nestly

Contact 60X (or any of the larger string makers), they probably have an excess of them that they'll sell for little more than shipping cost. (or search "empty jig spool" on ebay if you want to pay for new.


----------



## zotparkerm

Thanks.
Sho nuff. $1 each plus some shipping from 60X.


----------



## caspian

yeah, he sorted me out with a bunch of empties some time ago, very helpful.


----------



## automan26

Automan needs a small favor from someone. Recently I updated the PowerPoint in the DropBox link in my signature, but I think there may be a problem with the way it opens. In the past I have been uploading the PowerPoint as a "PowerPoint Show" and it opens directly to the first slide in the presentation. Something has changed and when I open my update it loads as a normal, editable, PowerPoint. This may be due to a setting on my computer, but the only way I can find out what is going on is to have someone else open it. Could someone open it and let me know if it opens directly as a PowerPoint show, or does it open in the standard, PowerPoint format?

ThanX
Automan


----------



## nestly

Downloaded PowerPoint seems to work properly as far as I can tell. It opens in full screen on the first slide.


----------



## automan26

ThanX...Did it open in full screen in DropBox before the download?

Automan


----------



## nestly

No. The first side initially opened in a frame with a mouse-over popup control box to advance to the next slide, switch to full screen, or Print.


----------



## automan26

ThanX for taking time to help me out. I think it is opening correctly.

Automan


----------



## Fiferguy

Hey all,

As some of you are aware, I've been having problems with peep rotation. It was suggested that it might be strand tension, and Nuts and Bolts was kind enough to send me his version of a mechanical material tensioner. I ended up modifying his design a little, and I posted a build thread for it. Thought some of you might be interested.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5162977


----------



## Fiferguy

Automan, it's working just fine for me after downloading. I didn't let it finish in DropBox before I downloaded it though. It opens full screen in presentation mode. Windows 10, Powerpoint 2016.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> Hey all,
> 
> As some of you are aware, I've been having problems with peep rotation. It was suggested that it might be strand tension, and Nuts and Bolts was kind enough to send me his version of a mechanical material tensioner. I ended up modifying his design a little, and I posted a build thread for it. Thought some of you might be interested.
> 
> http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5162977


Has that tensioner helped your problem?


----------



## Fiferguy

Huntinsker said:


> Has that tensioner helped your problem?


I made another version out of an oak dowel rod to start with, and it helped significantly. I'm shooting that string on my bow right now. This is just a much nicer version, but has yet to be tested. I need to order some more material before I can make a new string.


----------



## Heine

I am currently away from home and not scheduled to be back for 7 days. I forgot I had a cable stretching. What does everybody think about the cable being on my stretcher for a week?


----------



## Huntinsker

Shouldn't have a problem.


----------



## Heine

Cool!


----------



## Midlife Crisis

Okay, I have my 20” test string on the jig and I think it is looking pretty good.

I’ve discovered a problem. The string I built is with Fury material and I put 32 strands in the test string. Served or un-served, it is thicker than the replacement BowTech stock string and cables I purchased at the pro shop years ago. It probably won't sit well in the cam grooves.

Now I looked at an old cable and new, unused string. I see they each have 22 strands of material (what material it is, I don’t know). For the split ends of the cables, 12 strands in gray are fairly straight and go to the left posts on the cams, and 10 red strands are twisted pretty good and go to the posts on the right side of the cams.

I’m thinking 22 strands of Fury might not be a good thing to try and wonder if anyone has some guidance, other than trying 30, 28, or 26 strands for a hit or miss on the correct diameter. I also worry about how many strands of Fury material I need to have the equivalent strength of the stock string and cables.

Any help?


----------



## mattafliving

Midlife Crisis said:


> Okay, I have my 20” test string on the jig and I think it is looking pretty good.
> 
> I’ve discovered a problem. The string I built is with Fury material and I put 32 strands in the test string. Served or un-served, it is thicker than the replacement BowTech stock string and cables I purchased at the pro shop years ago. It probably won't sit well in the cam grooves.
> 
> Now I looked at an old cable and new, unused string. I see they each have 22 strands of material (what material it is, I don’t know). For the split ends of the cables, 12 strands in gray are fairly straight and go to the left posts on the cams, and 10 red strands are twisted pretty good and go to the posts on the right side of the cams.
> 
> I’m thinking 22 strands of Fury might not be a good thing to try and wonder if anyone has some guidance, other than trying 30, 28, or 26 strands for a hit or miss on the correct diameter. I also worry about how many strands of Fury material I need to have the equivalent strength of the stock string and cables.
> 
> Any help?


I personally run 28 stands for bowtechs using non blended sk99 material. That should get you to the right diameter as well. Don't go any less than 28 strands though to maintain stability. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Midlife Crisis said:


> Okay, I have my 20” test string on the jig and I think it is looking pretty good.
> 
> I’ve discovered a problem. The string I built is with Fury material and I put 32 strands in the test string. Served or un-served, it is thicker than the replacement BowTech stock string and cables I purchased at the pro shop years ago. It probably won't sit well in the cam grooves.
> 
> Now I looked at an old cable and new, unused string. I see they each have 22 strands of material (what material it is, I don’t know). For the split ends of the cables, 12 strands in gray are fairly straight and go to the left posts on the cams, and 10 red strands are twisted pretty good and go to the posts on the right side of the cams.
> 
> I’m thinking 22 strands of Fury might not be a good thing to try and wonder if anyone has some guidance, other than trying 30, 28, or 26 strands for a hit or miss on the correct diameter. I also worry about how many strands of Fury material I need to have the equivalent strength of the stock string and cables.
> 
> Any help?


Bowtech has historically run 22 strands of Trophy on their strings though I think they switched to 452x more recently.........maybe. Those two materials are essentially the same except Trophy has a strand of Gore fiber in it which doesn't seem to do anything beneficial. The fact that they go 22 all around and have 2 fewer strands going up one leg of their yoke is pretty crappy on their part and speaks to the quality of their factory sets and how much they care to produce a good set...........they don't. 

Typically Bowtech has tighter cam tracks than most of the industry. For that reason you may want to stick with 28 strands of fury all around. While 32 should fit, it may be tight and since their cams are hard on serving, it may be best to stick with 28 to try and mitigate the chance of premature serving wear. 32 strands of fury is equivalent to 24 of 452x so that's why your test string seems bigger than the stock strings you have. 28 strands of fury is equivalent to 22 of 452x so that's your best bet. 

Make sure you're dewaxing the material before serving so the extra wax doesn't squeeze out and cause serving separation. It may also increase the diameter a little but fury is much more consistent from color to color than most BCY materials so you may not have too much to worry about there.


----------



## Midlife Crisis

Huntinsker said:


> Bowtech has historically run 22 strands of Trophy on their strings though I think they switched to 452x more recently.........maybe. Those two materials are essentially the same except Trophy has a strand of Gore fiber in it which doesn't seem to do anything beneficial. The fact that they go 22 all around and have 2 fewer strands going up one leg of their yoke is pretty crappy on their part and speaks to the quality of their factory sets and how much they care to produce a good set...........they don't.
> 
> Typically Bowtech has tighter cam tracks than most of the industry. For that reason you may want to stick with 28 strands of fury all around. While 32 should fit, it may be tight and since their cams are hard on serving, it may be best to stick with 28 to try and mitigate the chance of premature serving wear. 32 strands of fury is equivalent to 24 of 452x so that's why your test string seems bigger than the stock strings you have. 28 strands of fury is equivalent to 22 of 452x so that's your best bet.
> 
> Make sure you're dewaxing the material before serving so the extra wax doesn't squeeze out and cause serving separation. It may also increase the diameter a little but fury is much more consistent from color to color than most BCY materials so you may not have too much to worry about there.


Thanks. I just got off the phone with them and they confirmed your 452X for material. Maybe they used Trophy back in 2011 when I bought the bow. I had in some old notes that the string for my Destroyer was 20 strands. Last night I mistakenly looked at an old cable and one new one for the strand counts and mistook a new cable for a new bow string. Cables have 22 strands of the 452X material. I hear what you say about quality...

I'll try a test string of 28 strands of Fury before attempting to do a string for the bow. And I'll get a digital caliper from Home Depot to check dimensions against what is on the bow.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Irish Sitka

Need a little advice here please.
When I am at the point where I have the string wound to the recommended number of twists, the string is a little short.
I have to unwind some twists to get it right?
I just made a string for my Elite GT500 and have the recommended measurements etc...
I am doing it all according to the list and come up short?
Any advice please?


----------



## SamT

Irish Sitka said:


> Need a little advice here please.
> When I am at the point where I have the string wound to the recommended number of twists, the string is a little short.
> I have to unwind some twists to get it right?
> I just made a string for my Elite GT500 and have the recommended measurements etc...
> I am doing it all according to the list and come up short?
> Any advice please?


You can do everything by the book and still have a difference in the finished length because the build process is just a guideline and not an exact formula. Everyone's build process can have an effect on the finished length. This is one of the reasons as to why it is recommended that as you're learning, you build two or three test strings of various lengths (say a 30", 60", and 90") so you know if you need to add or subtract a little more length to your setup measurements to hit your targeted final lengths.

As you've stated, you've come up short. If it's all been properly stretched and twisted, you'll just have to add some more length to your setup measurements so the next one will be the correct length.

Good Luck.


----------



## Irish Sitka

SamT
Thanks for advice, I was thinking I would add a little to the recommended and see what happened.
The pins on my set up are 3/8", what are most people using?
I have a very strong unit and am getting 350lbs stretch no problem.
I will add a little length and see how it goes.
Thanks.


----------



## SamT

@Irish
Believe it or not, there's actually an AMO Standard for the pin diameters, and, for measuring your strings. 1/4" diameter pin is the standard.

Here's an excerpt of that AMO Standard:

*AMO COMPOUND BOW STRING LENGTH STANDARD*
Compound bowstring length shall be designated by its stretched length as determined by placing the string loops over 1/4” diameter steel pins and stretching with 100 lbs. of tension. Measurement is taken from outside of pin to outside of pin. Tolerance is +- 1/4” after 20 seconds under tension load.

Good Luck.


----------



## Irish Sitka

I will get my set up modified to 1/4" pins.
In the mean time I will add half a twist to allow for the 3/8" pins.


----------



## Irish Sitka

Who is selling Fury material on here for strings.


----------



## mattafliving

Irish Sitka said:


> Who is selling Fury material on here for strings.


Contact Hogwire or Baker Archery Products for fury material. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Red Voodoo

The Turbohawk is in need for a new set of strings. It has a floating yoke, but have never done one before. Does not look like a big deal, but was wondering if anyone has replaced one of these with a split yoke. Will be using Fury and also looking for number of strands. Planning on 28 for string, should cable be the same, or with a floating yoke have any extra wraps?


----------



## Huntinsker

Red Voodoo said:


> The Turbohawk is in need for a new set of strings. It has a floating yoke, but have never done one before. Does not look like a big deal, but was wondering if anyone has replaced one of these with a split yoke. Will be using Fury and also looking for number of strands. Planning on 28 for string, should cable be the same, or with a floating yoke have any extra wraps?


Don't mess with a floating yoke. There's a reason they don't use them anymore. For that bow, I'd go 28 strands on the string and 32 on the cables with .014 halo or bullwhip.


----------



## b0w_bender

Irish Sitka said:


> SamT
> Thanks for advice, I was thinking I would add a little to the recommended and see what happened.
> The pins on my set up are 3/8", what are most people using?
> I have a very strong unit and am getting 350lbs stretch no problem.
> I will add a little length and see how it goes.
> Thanks.


I would also add that the number of twists in a string is somewhat arbitrary. It is extremely common for an archer to add or subtract twists to the string to tweak the performance of the bow. Originally the wist were added to the string for a couple of reasons. One, the threads don't billow out during the shot and secondly it makes the multiple threads act like a singe strand. Oh and it looks cool too. So don't get too wrapped around the axles if you don't have the exact twist count you thought you needed.


----------



## Irish Sitka

Thanks for input Bow_Bender.
I have lengthened the measurements on the strings and cables by 3/8" to account for the extra diameter of the pins on my set up. I will get them modified to 1/4" from 3/8". In the mean time this seems to be helping. It worked well on a set I put together for my GT500.


----------



## Golfnut1969

Where do you guys get the tensioner spring? I got a quote from WBParts, Inc. for $208.34. That's way beyond what I want to pay.


----------



## Chris NJ

McMaster-Carr. I paid somewhere around $6 - $10 for the spring.


----------



## automan26

That must be one nasty spring for 200 bux.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Golfnut1969 said:


> Where do you guys get the tensioner spring? I got a quote from WBParts, Inc. for $208.34. That's way beyond what I want to pay.
> 
> View attachment 6146465


First page, 6 lines down in the parts list.


----------



## Golfnut1969

Huntinsker said:


> First page, 6 lines down in the parts list.


The list of parts doesn't contain any links, it only shows parts and that is were I got the part number.

Line 6 in the parts list reads...

1 Compression spring— McMaster Carr part Number: *9573K81 * Medium Load Chrome-Silicon Steel Die Spring 1.5" Hole, .75" Rod, 2" L, .135" X .345"

I searched for that part, and I found it on the site I got the quote from. If you look at the invoice, you'll see exact Part number for the McMaster Carr part number *9573K81*


----------



## Golfnut1969

Chris NJ said:


> McMaster-Carr. I paid somewhere around $6 - $10 for the spring.


Thanks. I didn't realize the manufacturer had thier own eCommerce site.

For anyone who needs this: McMaster.com - Part# 9573K81


----------



## Huntinsker

Golfnut1969 said:


> The list of parts doesn't contain any links, it only shows parts and that is were I got the part number.
> 
> Line 6 in the parts list reads...
> 
> 1 Compression spring— McMaster Carr part Number: *9573K81 * Medium Load Chrome-Silicon Steel Die Spring 1.5" Hole, .75" Rod, 2" L, .135" X .345"
> 
> I searched for that part, and I found it on the site I got the quote from. If you look at the invoice, you'll see exact Part number for the McMaster Carr part number *9573K81*


Before you build your jig I should mention that there is a typo in the parts list also. The "2 pieces of 7” long, ¾” wide by ½” thick steel bar (If in the Kansas City area, Metal by the Foot will cut it to length)", should be 7" x 1.5" x 1/2" and not be only 3/4" wide. I'm not sure how I made that typo but it was too late to correct it by the time it was noticed. Also I built one with 1 3/4" wide bar stock and I like it better than the 1.5" wide stock. It's just stronger that way without being too big.


----------



## Golfnut1969

Thanks. I'm looking at building 2 jigs, one for building the strings, and one primarily for stretching. I'm going to use most of your design for the stretching jig.

I plan to use this for my string-buliding jig. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zctHIYPvA9c

Still in the planning phase right now, but it looks like I'll be borrowing a few components from each design.


----------



## b0w_bender

This is the sping I bought for my harbor freight Jack string stretcher.
https://www.mcmaster.com/#9588k72/=18lqk4m


----------



## TN ARCHER

I used one of these "porch swing springs". Picked up at Lowe's...cut the inner hooks out and you have a 350# compression spring.
View attachment 6152489


----------



## Sandskipper

TN ARCHER said:


> I used one of these "porch swing springs". Picked up at Lowe's...cut the inner hooks out and you have a 350# compression spring.
> View attachment 6152489


Brilliant!!!! 

Always good to see options and/or refinements to make those even more acquirable for people, and in this case, cheaper. Most excellent!


----------



## TN ARCHER

TN ARCHER said:


> Has anyone tried this stuff for serving?
> View attachment 5925217
> 
> It has 7 strands of Dynema and 1 strand of gore. I saw it while picking up some of the fireline crystal to try. I'm not crazy about the size.... 20# is .009. I'm testing it on my girlfriends bow as cable slide protection. It laid up a lot like halo.


Thought I'd share a little update on how this is holding up.
As I stated I served my girlfriends cables with this and it doing very well...better than expected! Her cable at the Cam was showing some wear so I reserved it with this too and it is performing well there too! I used 30# test which is .011. And if anyone has a gander mountain close by as I do you know they are closing their doors and I was able to pick up some more of this material at less than $10 for 150 yard spools. And our gander mountain had plenty of white left and it serves up good and clear!!


----------



## Golfnut1969

How do you tension the string without twisting it? 

Using your method of tensioning only from the non-spring side, which makes more sense to me, I can only see that being possible by turning the entire jig post and twisting the string. 

However, if there was only one nut on that end, on the outside, that nut would be the tensioner. Allowing you to adjust the tension without putting any twistin the string, while still allowing you to put twist in the string when needed. 

Does this make sense, or am I missing something? 

Here's what I'm suggesting. Remove the nut highlighted with the red box below, and using the one highlighted in green as the tension adjustment.


----------



## Huntinsker

Golfnut1969 said:


> How do you tension the string without twisting it?
> 
> Using your method of tensioning only from the non-spring side, which makes more sense to me, I can only see that being possible by turning the entire jig post and twisting the string.
> 
> However, if there was only one nut on that end, on the outside, that nut would be the tensioner. Allowing you to adjust the tension without putting any twistin the string, while still allowing you to put twist in the string when needed.
> 
> Does this make sense, or am I missing something?
> 
> Here's what I'm suggesting. Remove the nut highlighted with the red box below, and using the one highlighted in green as the tension adjustment.
> View attachment 6161625


The nut closest to the post is just there to snug up and hold the post vertical during layout. To tension the jig, you move that all the way towards the post and then turn the nut on the outside of the steel bar to tension the string. Hold the handle so it doesn't twist on you. Later in the thread I added a needle thrust bearing from McMaster car which made turning the tension nut and twisting much easier.

Thrust bearing and washers part numbers are.....

1 5909K32 Cage Assembly for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing 

2 5909K45 .032" Thick Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing


----------



## Golfnut1969

Huntinsker said:


> The nut closest to the post is just there to snug up and hold the post vertical during layout. To tension the jig, you move that all the way towards the post and then turn the nut on the outside of the steel bar to tension the string. Hold the handle so it doesn't twist on you. Later in the thread I added a needle thrust bearing from McMaster car which made turning the tension nut and twisting much easier.
> 
> Thrust bearing and washers part numbers are.....
> 
> 1 5909K32 Cage Assembly for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, 1-1/8" OD, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing
> 
> 2 5909K45 .032" Thick Washer for 5/8" Shaft Diameter, Steel Thrust Needle-Roller Bearing


OK, that makes sense. Sorry if I'm repeating questions, I haven't read through all 217 pages of this thread so I may have missed somed good info. Awesome stuff and thanks for your patience and replies.


----------



## Midlife Crisis

When I tension to 300 lbs, the strings stretch a bit after 30 minutes or so and the tension is reduced. Do you re-tighten the string to 300 lbs or just let it go for the duration of the 3 hour period?

Thx


----------



## Huntinsker

Midlife Crisis said:


> When I tension to 300 lbs, the strings stretch a bit after 30 minutes or so and the tension is reduced. Do you re-tighten the string to 300 lbs or just let it go for the duration of the 3 hour period?
> 
> Thx


I crank it back up though I've been stretching at higher poundage than that for quite a while. It speeds the process a bit and I've seen no ill effects of going higher.


----------



## automan26

Lately someone asked me about my method of spooling fishing line onto an empty spool that would fit a serving tool. Here are some pics of my setup.

Parts:
2 3/8" nuts like the ones shown in the pic. These nuts will push into the spool with minor difficulty, but will take up the slack around the carriage bolts and keep things more centered.
1 1/4" carriage bolt... 7"
1 1/4" carriage bolt... 5"
4 4x20 lock nuts
2 1/4" washers
4 1/4" fender washers
1 1/4"x 20 wing nut Two are shown in the pics, but only one is needed
1 1/4" Unistrut square nut
1 Unistrut square plate....A large fender washer will also work. You will need something that will span the width of the channel.

Assemble according to the pics. You can adjust the drag on the spool by varying the torque on the lock nuts.

With a little practice you can spool up fishing line and get it very tight on the spool just like a pro.

Automan


----------



## doulos

Hi 
I bought a string builders kit from Baker Archery and I have been experimenting a bit with post set up formulas. I started out with a 2 post setting and string length times 1.0075 seems to put put a string closest to desired length so far. I was just practicing making tag ends. And was actually surprised how well they came out using Ledbetters method from Texas Twister bowstrings. Tonight I am going to set up a 3 post set up to try some served ends. My question is ...Can it be just as simple as string length x 1.0075 then take that number and subtract 4 inches if your posts are 8 inches apart? Example 30 inch desired length so 30 x 1.0075== 30.225 30.225- 4=26.225.. Or did I leave some consideration out?


----------



## deerbum

That's it. The best way I can describe how to visualize it is to picture the 2 posts converging until they overlap into one post. So, the posts traveled exactly 8" increasing the length on each side of the layout 4".


----------



## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> Hi
> I bought a string builders kit from Baker Archery and I have been experimenting a bit with post set up formulas. I started out with a 2 post setting and string length times 1.0075 seems to put put a string closest to desired length so far. I was just practicing making tag ends. And was actually surprised how well they came out using Ledbetters method from Texas Twister bowstrings. Tonight I am going to set up a 3 post set up to try some served ends. My question is ...Can it be just as simple as string length x 1.0075 then take that number and subtract 4 inches if your posts are 8 inches apart? Example 30 inch desired length so 30 x 1.0075== 30.225 30.225- 4=26.225.. Or did I leave some consideration out?


Not quite. Are your posts 8" on center? If so, the outside of the posts are actually 8 1/4" apart since from center there'll be 1/8" on the outside on each post. It would be beneficial to you to look at post #3115 on page 125. nestly made a great diagram showing the layout differences based on a 2, 3 and 4 post setup with the posts at 8" on center.


----------



## doulos

Huntinsker said:


> Not quite. Are your posts 8" on center? If so, the outside of the posts are actually 8 1/4" apart since from center there'll be 1/8" on the outside on each post. It would be beneficial to you to look at post #3115 on page 125. nestly made a great diagram showing the layout differences based on a 2, 3 and 4 post setup with the posts at 8" on center.


Thanks
Butchs posts on his rigid set up are 8 inches from outside to outside of the pins


----------



## mattafliving

doulos said:


> Thanks
> Butchs posts on his rigid set up are 8 inches from outside to outside of the pins


Why not just use his spread sheet? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## deerbum

*Eliminating twist on a back serve*

I have had issues with the serving twisting up after unwinding a back serve, Powergrip seems to be more affected by it for me and the twisted up serving can break when pulling it through. I experimented with adding twists to the serving in the opposite direction just prior to winding on the back wraps and think I figured it out. For 10 back wraps I added 5 twists and it countered the twist that results from unwinding, and it pulled through easily. For the direction, as the serving tool hangs I spun it counter clockwise. To make it easier to count the number of revolutions I marked one end of the serving tool with a silver sharpie.


----------



## skynight

Interesting idea from Levi Morgan, thought I'd post it.


----------



## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> Interesting idea from Levi Morgan, thought I'd post it.


Saw him say this in a video that was shared with me on facebook. Me and quite a few other string builder I know got a bit of a chuckle with it. No offence to Levi but there's no way it makes a difference. For something to hold with a friction grip like serving does, it's best to lay it down with as much surface area contact as possible. Pulling the tag end out and then laying it back down several times just puts the tag end in between the serving and the string and then leaves bumps where there isn't as much direct contact. 

It'd be like wearing cleats on a basketball court and then trying to stop quickly. Not enough surface area on each individual cleat but on a flat basketball shoe, you can stop on a dime. At least that the way I think about it. If he's confident in it, then I'm sure it works for him. I've personally never had a center serving move so I don't have to worry about it I guess.


----------



## skynight

I've seen center serving separate under the dloop on many different makers strings.
I do not serve the way he describes. I weave the beginning of the serving through the threads, leaving the tag coming out the top. I then take two turns and run the tag over the turns. After a couple turns over the tag I tie the tag to the end of my jig so it doesn't twist under the serving. Tension the string to 300# and serve over the tag full length. 
After I finish the backserve, I then backserve the tag against the bottom of the serving. Using the tag this way locks the serving top and bottom against each other. The top part with the weave I stole from reverse engineering a WC string. The bottom backserve was my idea. This works for separation prevention for me.
I see what he's talking about here as the same idea.


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## doulos

skynight said:


> I've seen center serving separate under the dloop on many different makers strings.
> I do not serve the way he describes. I weave the beginning of the serving through the threads, leaving the tag coming out the top. I then take two turns and run the tag over the turns. After a couple turns over the tag I tie the tag to the end of my jig so it doesn't twist under the serving. Tension the string to 300# and serve over the tag full length.
> After I finish the backserve, I then backserve the tag against the bottom of the serving. Using the tag this way locks the serving top and bottom against each other. The top part with the weave I stole from reverse engineering a WC string. The bottom backserve was my idea. This works for separation prevention for me.
> I see what he's talking about here as the same idea.


when you serve over the tag full length do you usually have to use a smaller diameter serving?


----------



## doulos

Another greenhorn question here
For those using a double together 1 5/8 unistrut... Are you experiencing any flex while stretching. My unistrut is now mounted to a 2x6. I would like something a bit easier to store.


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## skynight

doulos said:


> when you serve over the tag full length do you usually have to use a smaller diameter serving?


Yes it will make your serving slightly fatter. I like .17 halo for the center serving over 24 strands of bcy X.


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## Golfnut1969

doulos said:


> Another greenhorn question here
> For those using a double together 1 5/8 unistrut... Are you experiencing any flex while stretching. My unistrut is now mounted to a 2x6. I would like something a bit easier to store.



I have mine bolted to my work bench with 4 bolts. When I'm not using it, I remove the bolts and store it. That works for me. 

I know of another guy who bolts another 1 5/8 unistrut to the original. Two of them together won't flex.


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## nestly

It's pretty minimal, but back-to-back strut still bows. Here's how much mine (which is factory welded 12ga G-Strut) flexes from 0 to 300 pounds with a 63" string. Deflection isn't linear with span, so it would be considerably less than shown for a 32 inch cable, but 2-3 times more than shown if building a 100+ inch one-cam string. Also, the height of the jig above the strut makes a difference, with "taller" jigs causing more flex in the strut than jigs where the string is built lower to the strut.


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## caspian

doulos said:


> when you serve over the tag full length do you usually have to use a smaller diameter serving?


that is one reason I don't like serving over a full length tag. also, the serving will not be a consistent diameter depending on the orientation of the nock to the string. I find it better to limit the tag lengths to short of the actual nocking point.


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## Coug09

I need some help fellow builders. 

I'm looking for a worksheet I can print off to fill in serving specs to keep for my own records. I'm trying to find one I like


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## freefall619

Coug09 said:


> I need some help fellow builders.
> 
> I'm looking for a worksheet I can print off to fill in serving specs to keep for my own records. I'm trying to find one I like
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk











Here's what I use. 



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## Golfnut1969

Why don't you use a spreadsheet like Microsoft Excel. There are free versions out there (OpenOffice Calc). These apps are great tools for keeping notes organized. There are also simpler apps like OneNote or EverNote. YOu can keep these too and print them if you want paper copies. If you back these up on a service like DropBox, you'll have access to them on all your devices (computers, phone, etc...)


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## Bownut400

Thanks for showing this Nestly. I get questions all the time about back to back strut. It takes at least a 2x6 or a 2x2x.125 wall square tube.


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## mattafliving

not the best welds but I used the square tubing like butch recommends. Went with the 1/4 for the super server and 1/8 for my stretchers. 


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## poetic

Got a quick question. I measured my serving before I took my string off the bow. Where I would need my string stop serving to be. But that was on a 27" switchback cam. And I have a 29" coming in the mail. Would that 2" make a difference where my string stop seving will be when I put it on a 29" cam instead of the 27 where I measured it at?

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## bryanroberts

poetic said:


> Got a quick question. I measured my serving before I took my string off the bow. Where I would need my string stop serving to be. But that was on a 27" switchback cam. And I have a 29" coming in the mail. Would that 2" make a difference where my string stop seving will be when I put it on a 29" cam instead of the 27 where I measured it at?
> 
> Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk


No the string stop will remain in the same place regardless of draw length.. Good luck!


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## guido316

This thread has been tremendously informative. I've been building strings for my family for about four years now, invariably they have all been a touch too long. I've had to massage my procedure to get the correct length. Does anyone have a formula that works for a 3 post design. I'm using a 10" center to center cross bar , with 1/4" pins. I'd appreciate any help. I'd love to be able to just set my posts based on an accurate formula. Thanks in advance.


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## Golfnut1969

guido316 said:


> This thread has been tremendously informative. I've been building strings for my family for about four years now, invariably they have all been a touch too long. I've had to massage my procedure to get the correct length. Does anyone have a formula that works for a 3 post design. I'm using a 10" center to center cross bar , with 1/4" pins. I'd appreciate any help. I'd love to be able to just set my posts based on an accurate formula. Thanks in advance.


Check out the spreadsheet that Butch has put together... You can add it to your cart on his site (Baker Archery Products) and then checkout. It's all free. Anyway, I know he has calculators for 2 and 3 post set ups. 

http://www.bakerarcheryproducts.com/shop/free-bap-string-formulas-spreadsheet


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## guido316

Thank you!


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## boilerfarmer12

This thread is awesome! I just started building this weekend. I had a friend who has been building for awhile teach me. 

I am working with BCY X. I laid a string with pink and teal for a PSE Stinger X Stiletto. After laying the strands he had me remove the wax from the 4 individual bundles before twisting. The teal really sagged down especially. I am still learning and didn't re-measure the strings after stretching (I know now). I went to serve the center serving last night and measured them and the string was substantially longer than it should have been. I added quite a few more twists. Honestly I think they are very close to be over-twisted but I think they are ok to shoot. My question is, is the step I described necessary? Could the sagging bundles made the string longer than expected which threw the final length off?


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## mattafliving

boilerfarmer12 said:


> This thread is awesome! I just started building this weekend. I had a friend who has been building for awhile teach me.
> 
> I am working with BCY X. I laid a string with pink and teal for a PSE Stinger X Stiletto. After laying the strands he had me remove the wax from the 4 individual bundles before twisting. The teal really sagged down especially. I am still learning and didn't re-measure the strings after stretching (I know now). I went to serve the center serving last night and measured them and the string was substantially longer than it should have been. I added quite a few more twists. Honestly I think they are very close to be over-twisted but I think they are ok to shoot. My question is, is the step I described necessary? Could the sagging bundles made the string longer than expected which threw the final length off?


Having just the teal sag would lead me to believe they were laid out with uneven tension and post flex. The string being to long will be something you'll have to figure out on your own cause everyone will lay out the individual strands at slightly different tensions. To really get your build formulas down, build a string at 30, 60, 90 inches. Take note of how far off they are after twisting and stretching and adjust your formula accordingly. I know I read the above method some where in this forum from someone else, so credit to that person. I also de-wax the bundles before twisting. I do this cause there is no need to have that much wax and it will eventually makes its way out once the string gets warm enough and can create inconsistencies. 


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## caspian

I gave up dewaxing individual string bundles some time ago on automan's advice. it has totally eliminated the "bumps" issues I had occasionally, particularly on longer strings. it's also entirely possible that the dewaxing was a bit more enthusiastic with the teal bundle resulting in some stretch, which is undesirable.

I use X almost exclusively and my current method is (in summary):

- lay up with length set to 0.995 of desired finished length (yes, *shorter*). for long solocam strings I use 1x desired finished length as they rebound a bit more. I just do it by hand, and pay attention to the strand tension and feel.
- apply 100lb tension for 10-15mins to equalise strand tensions.
- do first loop serving, reverse string on jig and sort out the bundles (3-post jig), bring back to 100lbs and do second loop serving.
- close yoke, reapply 100lbs, apply twists at the rate of 6 to 10" finished length, bring to 250lb and leave for 12-24 hours. (I generally build in the evenings after work, time could probably be less but I'm not in a hurry.)
- burnish to remove excess wax.
- apply end and centre servings at 250lbs.
- if possible with time, I'll drop the tension to maybe 50lb and let the piece sit for half an hour, come back and adjust again a couple of times, and generally let it come to zero tension over a period of time. this also helps a lot with encouraging twists to stay set, with no bunching or lumping.
- hang for 24 hours to relax completely, then tension to 100lb for 10 mins before twisting to final length.

ideally I'll take them directly from the jig to the bow and fit them.


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## CenterShotX

As Arty Johnson would say "very interesting" and most informative. Enjoyed your work.


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## automan26

Lots of guys are asking about where to get Chinese Spectra fishing line. Here is the link I use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Strands-S...d=351181921326&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042


I ordered 500 meters for 9 bux and look at how many spools I filled. I am guessing I have about $80.00 worth of serving material for under $9.00. These spools are filled with 50# line.

Automan


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## automan26

My second spool of gray fishing line showed up today so I got it spooled and ready to go. It should be a long time before I run out of serving thread. $20.00 worth of fishing line translates into a huge savings on serving material.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> This thread is awesome! I just started building this weekend. I had a friend who has been building for awhile teach me.
> 
> I am working with BCY X. I laid a string with pink and teal for a PSE Stinger X Stiletto. After laying the strands he had me remove the wax from the 4 individual bundles before twisting. The teal really sagged down especially. I am still learning and didn't re-measure the strings after stretching (I know now). I went to serve the center serving last night and measured them and the string was substantially longer than it should have been. I added quite a few more twists. Honestly I think they are very close to be over-twisted but I think they are ok to shoot. My question is, is the step I described necessary? Could the sagging bundles made the string longer than expected which threw the final length off?


I would bet that the bundles were laid out with uneven tension to begin with. Did you lay out the teal first? If you lay out the material too tightly, each wrap will cause the jig to flex a little bit. If you have a spring on the jig, you need to block it somehow so it can't compress. Also, if you're dewaxing that way, make sure not to do it too much. Too much burnishing can cause bumps in your string. I go down the length of it one time, then separate the individual strands so they aren't in 2 separate "cords" of the same color, and then twist, burnish down the length once again and that's it.


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## lunghit

automan26 said:


> Lots of guys are asking about where to get Chinese Spectra fishing line. Here is the link I use.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Strands-S...d=351181921326&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042
> 
> 
> I ordered 500 meters for 9 bux and look at how many spools I filled. I am guessing I have about $80.00 worth of serving material for under $9.00. These spools are filled with 50# line.
> 
> Automan


Just curious are you serving cables with the fishing line? I have used it for strings with great results but will only use Halo for the cables. What pound test do you use for strings, and cables? Thanks


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## automan26

lunghit said:


> Just curious are you serving cables with the fishing line? I have used it for strings with great results but will only use Halo for the cables. What pound test do you use for strings, and cables? Thanks


I use 50# material for strings and cables and it has worked well so far. Halo is quite slick and it seems to stay put and I don't think this fishing line is quite as slick as Halo. Since the fishing line is Spectra, it should have good wear resistance. This is only my experience however and others may agree or disagree. When it comes to serving the cables where they run through rollers I use a brand of Berkley fishing line that gets quite clear. I wish I could tell you exactly what I use but a pro builder let me in on what he uses with the promise that I would keep it to myself. I have used Berkley Ultracast Crystal Invisabraid, 20#, and it works super around the rollers.

Automan


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## lunghit

automan26 said:


> I use 50# material for strings and cables and it has worked well so far. Halo is quite slick and it seems to stay put and I don't think this fishing line is quite as slick as Halo. Since the fishing line is Spectra, it should have good wear resistance. This is only my experience however and others may agree or disagree. When it comes to serving the cables where they run through rollers I use a brand of Berkley fishing line that gets quite clear. I wish I could tell you exactly what I use but a pro builder let me in on what he uses with the promise that I would keep it to myself. I have used Berkley Ultracast Crystal Invisabraid, 20#, and it works super around the rollers.
> 
> Automan


Great thanks for the info. 50 is what I have now for strings so maybe I'll have to try it on a set of cables next year. The price can't be beat.


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## lunghit

Has anyone ever seen this type of coating on an end loop before? I replaced a string set on a friends Bowtech Assassin and the stock cables had this rubber coating on the loops. Almost looks like liquid electrical tape. It rubbed off on my fingers and I could easily pull it off. Sorry for the bad cell phone pics.


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## skynight

Wow. Why serve loops when you can plastidip them.


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## caspian

they look roll-formed like at the 2m point in this video. plastidip, ukey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVllzfhT2Wg


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## bukfever2

skynight said:


> Wow. Why serve loops when you can plastidip them.


A lot of companies still don't serve end loops. Must save them a lot of time ($$$ I'm sure it adds up) when building them. 
Thing is if they miss 1 strand around the post, over time that 1 strand will pull through the serving and get shorter.
I've seen many bows that had a strand that missed going around the post and that strand's loop was way too small to go around the post when after a couple months.
Really not a bad idea, with the small amount of rubber that they use, it would assure that all the strands stay together.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Has anyone ever seen this type of coating on an end loop before? I replaced a string set on a friends Bowtech Assassin and the stock cables had this rubber coating on the loops. Almost looks like liquid electrical tape. It rubbed off on my fingers and I could easily pull it off. Sorry for the bad cell phone pics.


Yep. It's pretty weird stuff. Lots of companies cut corners when they can.


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## BowStringDepot

Yep looks and feels like liquid electrical tape


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Yep. It's pretty weird stuff. Lots of companies cut corners when they can.


Yes weird stuff but like someone said above it's really not a bad idea. I did a few PSE's this summer that had no serving or anything on the loops. Those are a pain to reinstall on a string post. At least Bowtech/Octane attempted something better lol.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Yes weird stuff but like someone said above it's really not a bad idea. I did a few PSE's this summer that had no serving or anything on the loops. Those are a pain to reinstall on a string post. At least Bowtech/Octane attempted something better lol.


Yeah those mainline PSE strings are horrible to deal with. You really have to wax the loops with a stiff wax to get them back on the posts. Can't tell you how many times I have fought with those loops.


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## boilerfarmer12

Is this ok for an end loop? Someone told me by doing this it doesn't allow the string to twist evenly.


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## bukfever2

Huntinsker said:


> Yeah those mainline PSE strings are horrible to deal with. You really have to wax the loops with a stiff wax to get them back on the posts. Can't tell you how many times I have fought with those loops.


I can't believe PSE doesn't serve over the idler wheel.
This string is just about destroyed in that area.
I'm sure it saves them a little time & material but it just seems too cheap to me.
Easy to figure out what the customer did to fray the string but, if it'd been served in that area, there may not have been any damage.


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## automan26

I built a set of threads for a PSE a few weeks ago and there was a post on the cam that had so little clearance between the top of the post and the cam that a served loop did not want to slip over the post. PSE did not serve that loop on the original strings due to the clearance issue, but I thought it was rather sloppy of them to build a cam in such a fashion. I did manage to get the loop installed over the post, but it took considerable poking and muttering to myself to get that loop installed properly. 

Automan


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Is this ok for an end loop? Someone told me by doing this it doesn't allow the string to twist evenly.
> View attachment 6249259


Nope. You'll be fine but the thickness of your whip stitch where you brought the loop together may poke through your end serving a little. Want to make it as small as possible. When I was still bringing the loops together like that, I'd use the tag end to actually compress the string, wrapping it very tightly for 5 wraps and then wrapping the 5 back wraps very tightly so that the material laid nice and flat. Then pull the tag end through so that the back wraps would just overlap each other a little bit but not so much that they'd bunch up. It would actually end up smaller than the string material by itself because I could get a little compression on it. 

Now I just backserve each side to finish it off making sure to leave a little offset so the transition is smooth.


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## tered

String spec for a Hoyt Magnatech woth xt2000 limbs. It says 94 string but the cable number is short one number at 34.blank 5?

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## Huntinsker

I can't find any Magnatec in their tune charts with those lengths in combination. Here's the only Magnatec with single cam on the chart. http://hoyt.com/uploads/tune-charts/c50829076781f1eb98894be12c1d400992f07b6d.pdf


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## boilerfarmer12

Built a set for my cousins martin scepter 3. This was my first solo set. Definitely some learning to do. Strings are usually coming out a little long after stretching and twisting. One thing that happened with this cable is the below picture. I'm guessing it was twisted up too much but this happened after installation. It twisted itself over the serving.


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## mattafliving

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Built a set for my cousins martin scepter 3. This was my first solo set. Definitely some learning to do. Strings are usually coming out a little long after stretching and twisting. One thing that happened with this cable is the below picture. I'm guessing it was twisted up too much but this happened after installation. It twisted itself over the serving.
> View attachment 6254221


How many additional turns did you add to that cable after your stretch? 


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## boilerfarmer12

mattafliving said:


> How many additional turns did you add to that cable after your stretch?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


honestly not sure. just twisted it to length. I think it was 1/4" long


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## automan26

You might be able to cheat up a bit by removing some twists from the cable and adding some twists to the legs on each side of the split cable. Since the legs of the split cable are short, a few twists in them will have a much more drastic effect on cable length than would a few twists in the cable itself. I doubt that you will be able to remove all your unwanted twist in the cable, but you might be able to get it a little bit better. 

Automan


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## TenneseeArcher

Saved


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## TenneseeArcher

Well I just went to Lowes and got everything I needed to build the jig except the compression spring and the 1/2"x3/4" flat bar because they didn't have it. So far I think I spent $85. I'll post my receipt later so everyone can see an itemized break down of cost. I'm sure cost is buried in here somewhere but as long as this thread has been going I figured posting it again wouldn't hurt.


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## automan26

I am anxious to see your finished product. Check with Huntinsker about the specs for the flat bar. There has been a change from the first posts.

Automan


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## RatherBArchery

That part of the string never saw contact with the top wheel my friend, that damage is most likely from a bow hanger!!! I see folks hang their bows at indoor shoots with that part of the string contacting the hanger most clubs have in my parts and it makes me cringe..... I always have my hung bow hanging by the limbs.......I believe cost and speed are why they do not serve this part of the string. From the PSE single cam bows I have had this area doesn't have any sharp areas to damage that section of string anyway. Just my .02


bukfever2 said:


> I can't believe PSE doesn't serve over the idler wheel.
> This string is just about destroyed in that area.
> I'm sure it saves them a little time & material but it just seems too cheap to me.
> Easy to figure out what the customer did to fray the string but, if it'd been served in that area, there may not have been any damage.
> 
> View attachment 6249501


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Built a set for my cousins martin scepter 3. This was my first solo set. Definitely some learning to do. Strings are usually coming out a little long after stretching and twisting. One thing that happened with this cable is the below picture. I'm guessing it was twisted up too much but this happened after installation. It twisted itself over the serving.
> View attachment 6254221


Not from being twisted too much. Your yoke legs are twisted opposite of each other. Both of the yoke legs must be twisted the same direction as the main body of the cable or they will twist up on each other as the twist from the body of the cable tries to move into the yoke. If they are twisted the same direction as each other and the body of the cable, the twists will stay in place. 

For another example of how this happens, a Flemish twist recurve string is made by rolling the individual color bundles to the right and twisting them around each other to the left. The opposite direction of the twist holds them in place so they don't untwist. You've essentially made the yoke legs do the same thing as a Flemish twist string.


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## Huntinsker

TenneseeArcher said:


> Well I just went to Lowes and got everything I needed to build the jig except the compression spring and the 1/2"x3/4" flat bar because they didn't have it. So far I think I spent $85. I'll post my receipt later so everyone can see an itemized break down of cost. I'm sure cost is buried in here somewhere but as long as this thread has been going I figured posting it again wouldn't hurt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, please note that the flat bar specs were a typo and I am unable to correct it in the OP. I'll have to try a Mod again and see if they can edit it for me. The blat bar should be 1.5" wide at least. Have no idea where the 3/4" came from when I put it in there.


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## Golfnut1969

bukfever2 said:


> I can't believe PSE doesn't serve over the idler wheel.
> This string is just about destroyed in that area.
> I'm sure it saves them a little time & material but it just seems too cheap to me.
> Easy to figure out what the customer did to fray the string but, if it'd been served in that area, there may not have been any damage.
> 
> View attachment 6249501


I'm far from an expert, but the spot where that string is frayed like that won't ever contact the idler wheel. If that fraying was on the wheel itself, I could see how it could be a burr on the wheel that could be causing that. In that case, serving might help. I think even if you did serve the string where it rides that wheel, you probably woudn't extend the serving that far down the string. Am I missing something?


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## TenneseeArcher

Huntinsker said:


> Yes, please note that the flat bar specs were a typo and I am unable to correct it in the OP. I'll have to try a Mod again and see if they can edit it for me. The blat bar should be 1.5" wide at least. Have no idea where the 3/4" came from when I put it in there.


Thanks for letting me know Huntsinker. How thick does it have to be? I think 1/4" was as thick as they had in the flat bar at lowes. Also does the bar have to be 7" in the pick it looks like it lines up flush sandwiched between the 2 L brackets.


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## Huntinsker

TenneseeArcher said:


> Thanks for letting me know Huntsinker. How thick does it have to be? I think 1/4" was as thick as they had in the flat bar at lowes. Also does the bar have to be 7" in the pick it looks like it lines up flush sandwiched between the 2 L brackets.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1/2" at least on the thickness. It doesn't have to be 7", that's just how High I wanted mine so that I had room to run my serving spinner and not worry about hitting the strut. You could go lower for sure. Just make sure you have the clearance you'll need.


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## deerbum

TenneseeArcher said:


> Thanks for letting me know Huntsinker. How thick does it have to be? I think 1/4" was as thick as they had in the flat bar at lowes. Also does the bar have to be 7" in the pick it looks like it lines up flush sandwiched between the 2 L brackets.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try a farm implement manufacturer, I bought some 2" X 1/2" locally. For a few bucks extra they might even cut to length and drill the holes for you.


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## bukfever2

RatherBArchery said:


> That part of the string never saw contact with the top wheel my friend, that damage is most likely from a bow hanger!!! I see folks hang their bows at indoor shoots with that part of the string contacting the hanger most clubs have in my parts and it makes me cringe..... I always have my hung bow hanging by the limbs.......I believe cost and speed are why they do not serve this part of the string. From the PSE single cam bows I have had this area doesn't have any sharp areas to damage that section of string anyway. Just my .02


I'm sure it saves them a little time & material but it just seems too cheap to me.

*Easy to figure out what the customer did to fray the string* but, if it'd been served in that area, there may not have been any damage
I'm certain that he hung the bow, by wheel & the string, on a tree step or something but as I said IF it was served over the Idler wheel, there may not have been any damage in that area.
Saving some time and material would be the only reason they don't serve that area and many of their end loops.
I just believe they're being a little too cheap by doing it this way.


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## lunghit

Do most of you guys here find Hoyt factory string specs accurate? I just made a set for a friend's 2006 Trykon and in order to get cams timed I had to remove a few twists from the control and put a few in the buss. You can now see the difference in twists between the two. Only cosmetic and will not effect performance but that bothers me. I should have timed the bow with the stock set and then measured before I built the set but I didnt think I'd have to with Hoyt.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Do most of you guys here find Hoyt factory string specs accurate? I just made a set for a friend's 2006 Trykon and in order to get cams timed I had to remove a few twists from the control and put a few in the buss. You can now see the difference in twists between the two. Only cosmetic and will not effect performance but that bothers me. I should have timed the bow with the stock set and then measured before I built the set but I didnt think I'd have to with Hoyt.


Nope they always are short on the control and long on the buss. I usually do 1/8" short on the buss and 1/8" long on the control. That way if I do have to make any adjustments afterwards, the twist rate isn't noticeably messed up. If you look at pictures of Hoyt bows, you'll see a lot of highly twisted buss cables and low twist control cables for the very reason you've found. If you notice the factory sets no are coming with solid color cables and a dual color string. Makes you wonder if they got tired of people seeing the poor twist rate consistency hehe.


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## RatherBArchery

bukfever2 said:


> I'm sure it saves them a little time & material but it just seems too cheap to me.
> 
> *Easy to figure out what the customer did to fray the string* but, if it'd been served in that area, there may not have been any damage
> I'm certain that he hung the bow, by wheel & the string, on a tree step or something but as I said IF it was served over the Idler wheel, there may not have been any damage in that area.
> Saving some time and material would be the only reason they don't serve that area and many of their end loops.
> I just believe they're being a little too cheap by doing it this way.


It is a pain with unserved end loops for sure!!! I am wondering if their Livewire strings are built the same way????


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Nope they always are short on the control and long on the buss. I usually do 1/8" short on the buss and 1/8" long on the control. That way if I do have to make any adjustments afterwards, the twist rate isn't noticeably messed up. If you look at pictures of Hoyt bows, you'll see a lot of highly twisted buss cables and low twist control cables for the very reason you've found. If you notice the factory sets no are coming with solid color cables and a dual color string. Makes you wonder if they got tired of people seeing the poor twist rate consistency hehe.


Yes an 1/8" or maybe ever a little more would have made all the difference. And yes the stock string was a solid color and would have hid an uneven twist rate. Oh well live and learn I guess. He was thrilled with the work and the bow is shooting great but it annoys me more than anything. For now on when I have the bow on hand I will use the old set as a guide and not go by stickers. Thanks for the info.


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## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> Not from being twisted too much. Your yoke legs are twisted opposite of each other. Both of the yoke legs must be twisted the same direction as the main body of the cable or they will twist up on each other as the twist from the body of the cable tries to move into the yoke. If they are twisted the same direction as each other and the body of the cable, the twists will stay in place.
> 
> For another example of how this happens, a Flemish twist recurve string is made by rolling the individual color bundles to the right and twisting them around each other to the left. The opposite direction of the twist holds them in place so they don't untwist. You've essentially made the yoke legs do the same thing as a Flemish twist string.


Bingo! Thanks for this info. Got it fixed.


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## K.G.K.

How many strands of fury equal 452x 

With 452 I usually do 20-22 strands for string, and 24 for cables.

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## K.G.K.

I actually researched the posts and saw early on people were recommending 28 strand for string and 30 strands for cables with Fury. 

Thanks, great thread!

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## lunghit

This is not a string building post but a tuning issue I ran just into. Yesterday (the day before opening morning) I notice my fixed heads were hitting right of field points and I could see they were acting strange while flying through the air. My Exodus were flying with field points all summer long then all of a sudden they were off (maybe 2 inches at 20 yards). I removed a twist from each right yoke and everything was back to normal and I can see the arrow flying true through the air again. I mark my rest with pencil and nothing has moved so I don't know what happened. Anyone else run into a change in impact almost from one shooting session to the next? Glad I caught it before I hit the woods this evening.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> This is not a string building post but a tuning issue I ran just into. Yesterday (the day before opening morning) I notice my fixed heads were hitting right of field points and I could see they were acting strange while flying through the air. My Exodus were flying with field points all summer long then all of a sudden they were off (maybe 2 inches at 20 yards). I removed a twist from each right yoke and everything was back to normal and I can see the arrow flying true through the air again. I mark my rest with pencil and nothing has moved so I don't know what happened. Anyone else run into a change in impact almost from one shooting session to the next? Glad I caught it before I hit the woods this evening.


If that happens, I first assume that it's me being inconsistent and I don't change a thing. If it happens then again the next time out shooting, I'll try and spot something that I'm doing differently, usually for me it's a little inconsistency in my grip as I don't get to shoot as much as I would like sometimes. If that's not it, I'll re-tune but that's been pretty infrequent. Usually for me, the last thing to change is the bow. I'm much more inconsistent than it is.


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## K.G.K.

What's is the purpose of clear serving? Is it so you can see the detail of pin striping or duel colors in the cams, etc?

If doing a solid color string is it better to use solid color serving, or is the clear a better choice?

What is a good choice for clear serving?

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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> If that happens, I first assume that it's me being inconsistent and I don't change a thing. If it happens then again the next time out shooting, I'll try and spot something that I'm doing differently, usually for me it's a little inconsistency in my grip as I don't get to shoot as much as I would like sometimes. If that's not it, I'll re-tune but that's been pretty infrequent. Usually for me, the last thing to change is the bow. I'm much more inconsistent than it is.


Thanks for the info. Now that I am thinking about it the broadheads hitting right started last week. I noticed my Thunderheads started hitting right but my Exodus still flew fine. Then the Exodus eventually started yesterday. Maybe something got bumped or shifted. All is good now and I will keep an eye on things.


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## TenneseeArcher

What are some good YouTube videos to show the correct string building process. I get a lot from the text and pictures but I tend to be more of a visual learner and video would really help me out.


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> What's is the purpose of clear serving? Is it so you can see the detail of pin striping or duel colors in the cams, etc?
> 
> If doing a solid color string is it better to use solid color serving, or is the clear a better choice?
> 
> What is a good choice for clear serving?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


The purpose is because it's cool and we can. It's a personal preference and desire thing.

If you're doing a solid color string, I'd go with a solid color serving to match vs the clear. To get white serving to turn clear, it takes increased tension and often the addition of clarifier. Not a big deal but if you have to go too tight to get nice clear serving, you can run into peep rotation problems. Getting clear serving over certain colors is difficult too. Very bright colors and sharp contrast works well. Getting clear over "normal" colors, regular blue, red, green, brown etc. can be difficult and it often comes out looking a little "milky". 

If you want to do clear serving, I like Halo and 3D. They seem to clear up better than others. There are also some good fishing lines, Invisibraid clears up well for instance, that you can use for things like served loops and cable slide areas.


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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> The purpose is because it's cool and we can. It's a personal preference and desire thing.
> 
> If you're doing a solid color string, I'd go with a solid color serving to match vs the clear. To get white serving to turn clear, it takes increased tension and often the addition of clarifier. Not a big deal but if you have to go too tight to get nice clear serving, you can run into peep rotation problems. Getting clear serving over certain colors is difficult too. Very bright colors and sharp contrast works well. Getting clear over "normal" colors, regular blue, red, green, brown etc. can be difficult and it often comes out looking a little "milky".
> 
> If you want to do clear serving, I like Halo and 3D. They seem to clear up better than others. There are also some good fishing lines, Invisibraid clears up well for instance, that you can use for things like served loops and cable slide areas.


Great reply, thanks!

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## TenneseeArcher

Is there anyway one of you guys can post some pics on calibrating your spring adjustment with a scale, and show how you set the scale up on the jig, what kind of scale it is, etc.? That’s the only part I’m stuck on. I want to be sure I get that right so I can ensure my strings are stretched consistently every time. 


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## Midlife Crisis

My spring calibration - note the Sharpie marks on the spring and washers that surround it - I try to keep them at 12 o'clock and measure the spring distance at 90 degrees so I am sure to get close to duplicating conditions from stretch to stretch.


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## Midlife Crisis

I’ve been meaning to post pics of my setup for a long time. I made some modifications to the plans here.

First, I used a 3/4" ID, 10” pipe nipple cut in halves for the center structural supports between the two L brackets on each jig post. I figured they would provide more rigidity than a steel flat. Galvanized pipe tees threaded onto the tops would serve to house the bolts that have the spring pins in them.

Later I figured out how to drill them and put a 3” length 9/64” machine screw through them with some 3/4” spacers so I could use them as tie off posts for the string strands (instead of using clamps, which I found awkward). I also took a bolt and put a couple of those machine bolts through it to use as posts for the pinstripe strands.

I also wanted to put serving on the ends of my split yoke, so I took a steel flat and put a couple of bolts through, drilled them and attached some spring pins. I could switch yoke ends to control the tension on the yoke when serving the split end, but I just pluck the string and tension it until it sounds right. It can’t be all that far off after all the stretching is done and the servings have held up well. I use the cutting board oil (stocked at Home Depot) as a clarifier.

It is a good suggestion to build some test strings ahead of trying the real thing. It is a learning process. But by the third or fourth one you should be good to go. My string and cables have not stretched (Fury) and my bow is well tuned. Now if I can just be in the woods at the same time as the deer…


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## Gadawg11

Tag


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## Gadawg11

Tag


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## Huntinsker

Midlife Crisis said:


> I’ve been meaning to post pics of my setup for a long time. I made some modifications to the plans here.
> 
> First, I used a 3/4" ID, 10” pipe nipple cut in halves for the center structural supports between the two L brackets on each jig post. I figured they would provide more rigidity than a steel flat. Galvanized pipe tees threaded onto the tops would serve to house the bolts that have the spring pins in them.
> 
> Later I figured out how to drill them and put a 3” length 9/64” machine screw through them with some 3/4” spacers so I could use them as tie off posts for the string strands (instead of using clamps, which I found awkward). I also took a bolt and put a couple of those machine bolts through it to use as posts for the pinstripe strands.
> 
> I also wanted to put serving on the ends of my split yoke, so I took a steel flat and put a couple of bolts through, drilled them and attached some spring pins. I could switch yoke ends to control the tension on the yoke when serving the split end, but I just pluck the string and tension it until it sounds right. It can’t be all that far off after all the stretching is done and the servings have held up well. I use the cutting board oil (stocked at Home Depot) as a clarifier.
> 
> It is a good suggestion to build some test strings ahead of trying the real thing. It is a learning process. But by the third or fourth one you should be good to go. My string and cables have not stretched (Fury) and my bow is well tuned. Now if I can just be in the woods at the same time as the deer…


Nice work!


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## K.G.K.

Midlife Crisis said:


> I’ve been meaning to post pics of my setup for a long time. I made some modifications to the plans here.
> 
> First, I used a 3/4" ID, 10” pipe nipple cut in halves for the center structural supports between the two L brackets on each jig post. I figured they would provide more rigidity than a steel flat. Galvanized pipe tees threaded onto the tops would serve to house the bolts that have the spring pins in them.
> 
> Later I figured out how to drill them and put a 3” length 9/64” machine screw through them with some 3/4” spacers so I could use them as tie off posts for the string strands (instead of using clamps, which I found awkward). I also took a bolt and put a couple of those machine bolts through it to use as posts for the pinstripe strands.
> 
> I also wanted to put serving on the ends of my split yoke, so I took a steel flat and put a couple of bolts through, drilled them and attached some spring pins. I could switch yoke ends to control the tension on the yoke when serving the split end, but I just pluck the string and tension it until it sounds right. It can’t be all that far off after all the stretching is done and the servings have held up well. I use the cutting board oil (stocked at Home Depot) as a clarifier.
> 
> It is a good suggestion to build some test strings ahead of trying the real thing. It is a learning process. But by the third or fourth one you should be good to go. My string and cables have not stretched (Fury) and my bow is well tuned. Now if I can just be in the woods at the same time as the deer…


Very nice. What does the small bolt in the to of the T do? I assume some kind of stability ... thanks!

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## Midlife Crisis

KGK - you are right - the bolts (I've since swapped out for a shorter bolt) are for stability when I serve the string. The heavy Beiter Winder puts some torque on the string and I wanted to minimize twisting under the serving. So I drilled and threaded the pipe tees at both ends for bolts to keep the end posts stable in position while serving. Don't need a lot of pressure - just a little will do the trick. Note that the bolts must be loose when stretching.


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## K.G.K.

@ Midlife Crisis 

Thanks...

Also, what is the purpose for the copper fittings, and is there a copper sleeve within the T and the fittings?

I assumed to decrease any slack in the variance of diameter between the threaded rod and the T ... or maybe to provide a smooth internal surface for the threaded rod to move through the T when tightening and loosening ?

Thanks again. 

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## SteveB

I've been making trad recurve strings for several years. Using Butch Bakers equipment for the last 2 - probably 300 strings.
Have read most of the thread a year ago and am getting ready to try my 1st compound sets and have a couple questions.
Does anyone serve the ends of a split yoke with serving rather than tag ends? Watched several videos on them and all do tag end servings.
Trying to visualize the process to serve them (and serving diameter suggested) - any videos suggested or?
Hope I'm being clear in my question.
Thanks


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## nuts&bolts

SteveB said:


> I've been making trad recurve strings for several years. Using Butch Bakers equipment for the last 2 - probably 300 strings.
> Have read most of the thread a year ago and am getting ready to try my 1st compound sets and have a couple questions.
> Does anyone serve the ends of a split yoke with serving rather than tag ends? Watched several videos on them and all do tag end servings.
> Trying to visualize the process to serve them (and serving diameter suggested) - any videos suggested or?
> Hope I'm being clear in my question.
> Thanks


36-inch buss cable, with SERVED end loops. So, make a 72-inch bowstring (double the length of the buss cable). Now, you have two SERVED end loops. FOLD the 72-inch bowstring in half, and now you have a 36-inch split buss cable, with TWO served end loops for the "yoke" legs. SERVE the bottom end loop for your "folded" buss cable. Decide how long you want the yoke legs. Install an inch of serving to lock down the length of your "STATIC" yoke legs.


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## nuts&bolts

SteveB said:


> I've been making trad recurve strings for several years. Using Butch Bakers equipment for the last 2 - probably 300 strings.
> Have read most of the thread a year ago and am getting ready to try my 1st compound sets and have a couple questions.
> Does anyone serve the ends of a split yoke with serving rather than tag ends? Watched several videos on them and all do tag end servings.
> Trying to visualize the process to serve them (and serving diameter suggested) - any videos suggested or?
> Hope I'm being clear in my question.
> Thanks







How to SERVE end loops on the 4 post Baker Jig. So, if you need a 40-inch BUSS cable, setup the 4 post BAKER jig for a 80-inch bowstring. Serve the TOP end loop for the "bowstring" and serve the BOTTOM end loop for the "bowstring". Don't bother twisting the string bundle. When you have TWO end loops, then, take the string bundle, with the two end loops off the string jig and literally fOLD it in half. 

So, if you want a 28-strand BUSS cable that measures 40-inches long, you are going to make a 14 strand 80-inch long Bowstring, with two end loops. When the "bowstring" is done, meaning you have served the top and bottom end, then, remove the "bowstring" that is DOUBLE length, and half the strand count for the buss cable, and FOLD it in half. Voila. NOW, you have a 40-inch buss cable, with the two SERVED yoke leg end loops. Put the "buss cable" with only two end loops back onto the 4 post Baker string jig, and find the center between the two posts at the bottom end. Serve for the BOTTOM buss cable end loop, end loop #3. Take the buss cable, which now has THREE end loops, and twist and stretch under tension. Now you can do the end serving for the bottom of the buss cable. Now, you can do the yoke leg end servings. Now, you can do a 1-inch serving to lock down the yoke leg lengths.


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## SteveB

Sometimes the obvious hides in plain sight! :wink::darkbeer:

Thanks - you have no idea how complicated I was making it in my mind.


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## Midlife Crisis

K.G.K. said:


> @ Midlife Crisis
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> Also, what is the purpose for the copper fittings, and is there a copper sleeve within the T and the fittings?
> 
> I assumed to decrease any slack in the variance of diameter between the threaded rod and the T ... or maybe to provide a smooth internal surface for the threaded rod to move through the T when tightening and loosening ?
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


The copper fittings reduce the inner diameter of the steel pipe tees in order to work with the galvanized bolts. Had to take a round file to file down a raised area inside the copper sleeve. Had to file a bit to get a smooth action on the bolts going back and forth inside the sleeve. Easy to do as copper is soft.


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## Gorg

My brother shot this one last night, the best buck shot with ones of my strings so far. He upgraded bows this year. Found a great deal on a new Experience on closeout and we had it restrung and shooting bareshafts straight in a few hours. His increased confidence level carried through the season. Guess I have a "customer" for life now.









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## deerbum

Gorg said:


> My brother shot this one last night, the best buck shot with ones of my strings so far. He upgraded bows this year. Found a great deal on a new Experience on closeout and we had it restrung and shooting bareshafts straight in a few hours. His increased confidence level carried through the season. Guess I have a "customer" for life now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Whoops, posted this under my alter alias that I created to work around AT search function issues. Props to Huntinsker and Automan for your contributions, you both had a direct impact on my archery addiction, and indirectly cost my brother several hundred dollars for a new bow, and caused his wife to shake her head in disgust after finding out-lol!


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## Huntinsker

That's a great buck! It's very satisfying when you and your family and friends can take an animal using equipment that you personally have a hand in building. Nothing makes me more proud than to do something on my own that helps me to achieve a goal. Every animal I've taken since starting to build my own strings has been more of a success than previous animals, though they all are meaningful to me. The more I do on my own, the sweeter the trophy no matter the size.

Here's my first Trad gear big game animal. Shot him with my Kodiak Mag with one of my first Flemish twist strings. 









More story on it here if anyone wants a quick hunting story to read. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5311589&highlight=


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## deerbum

Nice job! I'm hoping to convert to traditional next year, a doe would be a trophy in my book with a recurve. I was fortunate enough to pick the right stand last Friday morning and think I shot a new personal DIY string record. It was a short hunt, 30 minutes from getting settled in the stand I watched this buck tip over after shooting the does.









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## nuthinbutnock

Who can help me out with pinstripes? Sometimes they turn out great other times I can’t get them to pop to save my life. Was working on one this morning that had me wanting to pull my hair out. Does anyone have any tips or tricks that I could try?


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## Huntinsker

deerbum said:


> Nice job! I'm hoping to convert to traditional next year, a doe would be a trophy in my book with a recurve. I was fortunate enough to pick the right stand last Friday morning and think I shot a new personal DIY string record. It was a short hunt, 30 minutes from getting settled in the stand I watched this buck tip over after shooting the does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Wow that's a whole lot of work in that trailer haha! Nice job!


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## Huntinsker

nuthinbutnock said:


> Who can help me out with pinstripes? Sometimes they turn out great other times I can’t get them to pop to save my life. Was working on one this morning that had me wanting to pull my hair out. Does anyone have any tips or tricks that I could try?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What exactly are you struggling with? Not sure what you mean by not being able to get them to "pop".


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## Golfnut1969

nuthinbutnock said:


> Who can help me out with pinstripes? Sometimes they turn out great other times I can’t get them to pop to save my life. Was working on one this morning that had me wanting to pull my hair out. Does anyone have any tips or tricks that I could try?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


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## nuthinbutnock

Huntinsker said:


> What exactly are you struggling with? Not sure what you mean by not being able to get them to "pop".


Most of the time when I build them, I have to chase the pinstripe but it looks great when I’m done. Then other times, like yesterday I can’t get that pinstripe to stop hiding in the bundle or blending with the other colors to save my life. I just don’t know what I’m doing wrong those times 


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## nuthinbutnock

Golfnut1969 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oWPSt8M5x8


This is actually the video that I learned how to do pinstripes from. However after rewatching it, I think I know where my issues lie now. I’m chasing after it’s fully twisted and really trying to “pull” those pinstripes up and I’m not twisting with enough tension. Thank you 


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## Huntinsker

Even though I don't typically have a problem with the pins being covered, I still always put in a scrap piece just in case I need to chase one down. Like you said, you need to twist with adequate tension and make sure you have the pins out to the sides to begin with. I still just use 3 golf tees for my pinstripes and it's worked well as long as there's enough tension on the jig.


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## 2X_LUNG

I'm so glad that video is assisting so many! Love watching everyone progress!

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## HaydenP

Well then.....221 pages of trying to fight my justification for making my own strings after finding a small nick in the yoke of my cable.....
le sigh. Do I need another project? 
no... 
Do I want another project?
perhaps. 

Awesome resource here, cheers!


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## Narf

I still have a lot of reading to do hear, but i would like to get some material ordered soon...what string material would you all recommend starting with? Is some easier to work with than others? I'm just going to do 2 color.

thanks


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## Huntinsker

Narf said:


> I still have a lot of reading to do hear, but i would like to get some material ordered soon...what string material would you all recommend starting with? Is some easier to work with than others? I'm just going to do 2 color.
> 
> thanks


Personally, I've found that Brownell string material has more consistent wax content and is easier to build with. It has just the right amount of tack to it to hold on well and isn't dry or sloppy. I still build a bunch of sets with 452x but I'd prefer to build with Fury. 

At first, I'd recommend getting some good material from the classifieds if you can. Something like 452x, Fury, X, 8190g or Rampage would be a good place to start for compound bow sets. You'll likely have a couple sets that aren't the best when you're starting out so get something for a good price and play with it. Then when you get your process down better, buy some of what you'd like to have long term. There's so many good materials out now, we're really pretty spoiled as string builders and archers. The competition between BCY and Brownell has increased and they've both stepped their game up and we're the ones who really benefit.


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## Binary cam man

Happy Thanksgiving!


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## adventurejack

tagged


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## Huntinsker

Binary cam man said:


> Happy Thanksgiving!


You to! Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving and safe travels.


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## Brandon42166

How come the pictures on the first few pages have broken links .....ugh 


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## Huntinsker

Brandon42166 said:


> How come the pictures on the first few pages have broken links .....ugh
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


AT is freaking out again. I'm sure it'll be back to it's normal crappy self in 5-6 months haha.


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## boilerfarmer12

braided fishing line conversions: does anyone have a conversion chart for buying braided fishing line instead of serving? I have been looking at kast king and see that their diameters are slightly smaller than BCY serving


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## Brandon42166

I’ve not made through 552 pages yet but what’s most people’s choice for jig lay out 2,4,6 post ....looks to me u can do endless loop on 2 and 4 post but a 4 post that pivots to me looks like the best set up....what’s yalls take on set ups what’s the best do it all set up 


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## wsbark01

boilerfarmer12 said:


> braided fishing line conversions: does anyone have a conversion chart for buying braided fishing line instead of serving? I have been looking at kast king and see that their diameters are slightly smaller than BCY serving


Is this the one you were wanting?


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## skynight

In my experience the 40# Chinese line is closer to.014 halo than the 50#. The 4 braid 40# is what you want for most applications. I use the 15# for end loop serving. Tried the 10# but had durability problems. Tried the 8 braid and it is too slick.


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## Huntinsker

Brandon42166 said:


> I’ve not made through 552 pages yet but what’s most people’s choice for jig lay out 2,4,6 post ....looks to me u can do endless loop on 2 and 4 post but a 4 post that pivots to me looks like the best set up....what’s yalls take on set ups what’s the best do it all set up
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most in here are doing 2 post setups but some do quite a bit with 4 post. I'm starting to dabble with a 4 post setup that I made too. A 6 post would only be used for buss cables. If you're doing served loops, a 3 or 4 post is a must. If you're going to do tag end loops, the 2 post is what you need. I know very few people that like to swing their posts after layout. Instead just figure how much you need adjust your formula for the initial post setting and keep them solid. You can read here how to calculate for the different post configurations. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=125&p=1079987578#post1079987578


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## rok1167

I've built a bunch of sets now for me and people i know. all with bcy 3d, except 62xs center serving. roughly a year worth of shooting my current sting, the serving is about to fail at the lower cam at the high stress/rub area. i'm guessing halo is better for those areas but at $35 a spool, and everybody wanting different colors, tough to justify for the weekend warrior.

have ya'll had any issues with 3d at cams? i got a half dozen stings out in the world with 3d, hope they're not a ticking time bomb. i'm going to keep using 3d for my strings since i inspect them religiously and don't have a problem just making a new string or replacing the serving. whatcha guys/girls think?


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## rok1167

Narf said:


> I still have a lot of reading to do hear, but i would like to get some material ordered soon...what string material would you all recommend starting with? Is some easier to work with than others? I'm just going to do 2 color.
> 
> thanks



i've only used BCY X so nothing else for me to compare to, but being the novice that i am, that string has not stretched even a little after install. i stretch it at 300 lbs overnight and it's baller. that's the only thing i'll be using in the foreseeable future, that and i am finding myself with a pretty good stock of the color selection, since everybody i know wants a different color.


----------



## deerbum

I dont have any experience with 3d, have been using 40# 4 strand spectra for everything other than centers or cable ends. For cable ends I'm using .014 powergrip, when purchased in a 1/4# spool it'll fill 8 spools for about $9 each.


----------



## skynight

deerbum said:


> I dont have any experience with 3d, have been using 40# 4 strand spectra for everything other than centers or cable ends. For cable ends I'm using .014 powergrip, when purchased in a 1/4# spool it'll fill 8 spools for about $9 each.


Where are you buying the 1/4# spools?


----------



## deerbum

skynight said:


> Where are you buying the 1/4# spools?


I've special ordered from Catfish Custom Bowstrings (Retieverfishin on AT), also 60x. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## skynight

deerbum said:


> I've special ordered from Catfish Custom Bowstrings (Retieverfishin on AT), also 60x.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

rok1167 said:


> I've built a bunch of sets now for me and people i know. all with bcy 3d, except 62xs center serving. roughly a year worth of shooting my current sting, the serving is about to fail at the lower cam at the high stress/rub area. i'm guessing halo is better for those areas but at $35 a spool, and everybody wanting different colors, tough to justify for the weekend warrior.
> 
> have ya'll had any issues with 3d at cams? i got a half dozen stings out in the world with 3d, hope they're not a ticking time bomb. i'm going to keep using 3d for my strings since i inspect them religiously and don't have a problem just making a new string or replacing the serving. whatcha guys/girls think?


3d is going to be chewed up pretty quickly on some cams, especially where the module rolls over onto the cable. Braided serving definitely works better for those applications. On most strings, 3d is fine. It's the cables where it doesn't last as long.


----------



## Brandon42166

Well I just made it from page 1-553 (tapatalk pages) of this thread . Got a couple questions.

1. So twist clockwise and and serve anti clockwise?

2. Where do I find this fishing line you speak of?

3. How do I get rid of this lump?

Ha ha just KIDDING 🤣🤣

Really on a serious note thanks to huntinsker and automan!! This thread is full of knowledge!! This thread has a lot to offer ! Even had a few villains mixed in there to lol. Thanks to all the other guys to that shared their knowledge also 2x, bowbender, and all the other guys I didn’t mention ! I’ve learnt a lot from this thread!

That’s one thing I love about archery talk most everyone is willing to help you! Also, if someone on here can’t build it or explain it to you ...most likely it can’t be done...lmao! There is no shortage of talented helpfully people here! Seen lots of good looking jigs and string in this post! You guys deserve a pat on the back!

Well time to dive head first and order some 20,30,40 lb China fishing line. Do some shopping for and order some fury, halo .014, powergrip .018. Get in touch with bow bender and order a nwspinner. Throw away the brownell server I ordered and order a Beiter Profi (maybe heavy). 

Absolutely love the el cheapo deluxe design! But only string or cables I’ve ever seen break which are only 2. Was broke loops which in both cases I know happened while in a bow case. Which most likely was from being way older then they should’ve been and been neglected for years. Think I’m going order bowhunt400 4 post so I can serve loops. 

So that does leave one question to the 4 post fans...which do you prefer fixed or revolving post? Pros and cons?

Can’t wait to get started practicing and even playing around with tag in serving so I’ll know how to! Then on to making the practice/test string in 30/60/90. Then on to making string for a few older bows I got and never shoot. 

Once I got a pretty good hang of it I wanna try my take of pin stripping. More of a automobile inspired pin stripe. Love to build a string for my evolve 35 with fury. You know like on a car you got thick primary then thick pin, thin primary then thick pin. Not sure if this is possible or how it would come out but primary of Black pin blue. Maybe laid 7 Black, 2 blue, 2 Black, 3 blue per side to make 28 strand. Lol maybe one of y’all will build a test string and let me see it! Lol 

Well back to watching Ledbetter, bowbinders and 2x videos again...thanks again guys!!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MsNipeR

Hi! Im making new threads to pse evolve so especially those short ones yokes about 15in of lengd. I didnt dare to pull them with same force as longer thread because 300# causes a creep of nearly 1'’ so my question is does bcyx tolerate such a creep om 15’’ offcause i can add perhaps 1/8’’ to the totallengd to Get the decired lengd and pull with half of the force 150 or 170# Thea got maybe 1/8’’ short with 150# pull


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

MsNipeR said:


> Hi! Im making new threads to pse evolve so especially those short ones yokes about 15in of lengd. I didnt dare to pull them with same force as longer thread because 300# causes a creep of nearly 1'’ so my question is does bcyx tolerate such a creep om 15’’ offcause i can add perhaps 1/8’’ to the totallengd to Get the decired lengd and pull with half of the force 150 or 170# Thea got maybe 1/8’’ short with 150# pull
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would say that if you saw 1" of movement at 300lbs with your short yokes for the Evolve cam, you likely had some slipping from the tag ends some how. Most builders I know use 18-20 strands of BCY X for those yokes so while they're short, they still have plenty of strands for stability, the shortness helps to make them stable too because the less length you have, the less material there is to creep over time. They should be able to go up to 300lbs without a problem. I've taken 12 strand recurve strings made out of 8125g over 300lbs with no issues.

I would double check the number of strands you're building with and make sure that the tag ends are finished and properly secured before you stretch them. You certainly could reduce the stretching tension if you like but you may need to leave them on the stretcher a little longer until they stop stretching.


----------



## Huntinsker

Brandon42166 said:


> Well I just made it from page 1-553 (tapatalk pages) of this thread . Got a couple questions.
> 
> 1. So twist clockwise and and serve anti clockwise?
> 
> 2. Where do I find this fishing line you speak of?
> 
> 3. How do I get rid of this lump?
> 
> Ha ha just KIDDING ����
> 
> Really on a serious note thanks to huntinsker and automan!! This thread is full of knowledge!! This thread has a lot to offer ! Even had a few villains mixed in there to lol. Thanks to all the other guys to that shared their knowledge also 2x, bowbender, and all the other guys I didn’t mention ! I’ve learnt a lot from this thread!
> 
> That’s one thing I love about archery talk most everyone is willing to help you! Also, if someone on here can’t build it or explain it to you ...most likely it can’t be done...lmao! There is no shortage of talented helpfully people here! Seen lots of good looking jigs and string in this post! You guys deserve a pat on the back!
> 
> Well time to dive head first and order some 20,30,40 lb China fishing line. Do some shopping for and order some fury, halo .014, powergrip .018. Get in touch with bow bender and order a nwspinner. Throw away the brownell server I ordered and order a Beiter Profi (maybe heavy).
> 
> Absolutely love the el cheapo deluxe design! But only string or cables I’ve ever seen break which are only 2. Was broke loops which in both cases I know happened while in a bow case. Which most likely was from being way older then they should’ve been and been neglected for years. Think I’m going order bowhunt400 4 post so I can serve loops.
> 
> So that does leave one question to the 4 post fans...which do you prefer fixed or revolving post? Pros and cons?
> 
> Can’t wait to get started practicing and even playing around with tag in serving so I’ll know how to! Then on to making the practice/test string in 30/60/90. Then on to making string for a few older bows I got and never shoot.
> 
> Once I got a pretty good hang of it I wanna try my take of pin stripping. More of a automobile inspired pin stripe. Love to build a string for my evolve 35 with fury. You know like on a car you got thick primary then thick pin, thin primary then thick pin. Not sure if this is possible or how it would come out but primary of Black pin blue. Maybe laid 7 Black, 2 blue, 2 Black, 3 blue per side to make 28 strand. Lol maybe one of y’all will build a test string and let me see it! Lol
> 
> Well back to watching Ledbetter, bowbinders and 2x videos again...thanks again guys!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the compliments on our thread. We certainly have a good community of very knowledgeable and very helpful guys in here. Best thread on AT in humble and slightly biased opinion.

As for the 4 post jig question, most builders I know that have a swinging 4 post end up either making/getting a stationary or they just don't swing the swinging 4 post. I'm friends with Butch Baker, who makes the BAP stuff, as well as a bunch of other builders and I see all the time guys buying stationary 4 posts to replace their swingers. Think it has to do with the simplicity and fewer moving parts that make the difference.

For your pinstripe idea, I'd lay out only 2 bundles, fewer tag ends to deal with and you'd have just 2 for top and bottom. For a 28 strand Fury string, I'd do 24 strands, 12 wraps, of black and then top it with 4 strands, 2 wraps, of the blue. Then when separating, instead of separating the pins in two directions, out to the side and above/below, just use one golf tee per side of the bundle, still 2 per end of the string, and separate them out to the sides. Then when you twist, the pins should lay to the side but still on the top half of the black bundle and allow some black to show between them. You'll have that effect of a fat black section on the back, blue stripes down the sides and then a thin black stripe in the middle. You may have to use a scrap piece of blue to chase the pins and get them to lay exactly like you want but it should work out okay.


----------



## MsNipeR

Ok thanks for reply! I reckon mine are quite solid since i had 24 strands and it felt like hitting a wall after certain amount tension. Maybe reduce some strands to get more strecht or lett it simple strecht longer!


----------



## SamT

MsNipeR said:


> Ok thanks for reply! I reckon mine are quite solid since i had 24 strands and it felt like hitting a wall after certain amount tension. Maybe reduce some strands to get more strecht or lett it simple strecht longer!


The purpose of tensioning is not stretching the strands, but *equalizing *the strands within the loops. Generally speaking, the more loops, the more time required to achieve for this process to complete. 

If you thought that tensioning was to take the "stretch" out of the strands, or string and cables, that would be incorrect.


----------



## nestly

SamT said:


> The purpose of tensioning is not stretching the strands, but *equalizing *the strands within the loops. Generally speaking, the more loops, the more time required to achieve for this process to complete.


I kinda disagree. If you have strand(s) within a bundle that are short, when you tension the string, those short strands/loops do not equalize, they either stretch (if the tension on that strand is below the max capacity for that strand) or they become damaged (if the tension is above the max capacity for that strand) I do not believe that individual strands/loops "travel" around the posts/end loops under tension, which is what would have to happen in order for them to "equalize", and especially not after the loops, or the entire string is served. 

IMO, strand consistency within a string is only as good as it was before it was served. If you apply 300 lbs to a string with inconsistent strand tension, the "short" strands are toast and little more than "filler" material within the bundle.


----------



## SamT

nestly said:


> I kinda disagree. If you have strand(s) within a bundle that are short, when you tension the string, those short strands/loops do not equalize, they either stretch (if the tension on that strand is below the max capacity for that strand) or they become damaged (if the tension is above the max capacity for that strand) I do not believe that individual strands/loops "travel" around the posts under tension, which is what would have to happen in order for them to "equalize", and especially not after the loops, or the entire string is served.
> 
> IMO, strand consistency within a string is only as good as it was before it was served.


Wow, my bad...I agree with your statement above, especially after the loops have been served. Thanks for the correction. Yea, you lay it out, tag-serve or end-loop serve, then twist, tension, and apply the rest of the serving, kinda hard to see where they's any room for individual loops to equalize.


...back to his problem of 1" stretch on his longer strings, ...seems excessive, especially if he's using good material such as BCY-X.


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> I kinda disagree. If you have strand(s) within a bundle that are short, when you tension the string, those short strands/loops do not equalize, they either stretch (if the tension on that strand is below the max capacity for that strand) or they become damaged (if the tension is above the max capacity for that strand) I do not believe that individual strands/loops "travel" around the posts/end loops under tension, which is what would have to happen in order for them to "equalize", and especially not after the loops, or the entire string is served.
> 
> IMO, strand consistency within a string is only as good as it was before it was served. If you apply 300 lbs to a string with inconsistent strand tension, the "short" strands are toast and little more than "filler" material within the bundle.





SamT said:


> Wow, my bad...I agree with your statement above, especially after the loops have been served. Thanks for the correction. Yea, you lay it out, tag-serve or end-loop serve, then twist, tension, and apply the rest of the serving, kinda hard to see where they's any room for individual loops to equalize.
> 
> 
> ...back to his problem of 1" stretch on his longer strings, ...seems excessive, especially if he's using good material such as BCY-X.


This would be easy to test. Make a short, bright colored string. Before twisting, make a sharpie mark somewhere on the bundle in a nice vertical line. Twist and stretch and then see if the vertical line begins to angle or if a spot moves out of place. Would be interesting to see that on a "pre-stretch" too where you take it up to 150 or so before twisting to equalize strand tension.


----------



## bowbrothersmdb

Hi all, firstly many thanks to this thread! It has helped hugely with my string making. At the moment I only make "Model T" strings... you can have any color as long as it's black!

Secondly I have a question regarding the spread sheets from BAP and NWSpinner. Why does changing the twist variable NOT affect the post settings? For extreme example, if I make a string with no twists, surely the post setting should be less than if I make a string with 1 twist per inch? Or am I missing something (always possible!)?


----------



## wcr1nova

Thanks for the good info.


----------



## Huntinsker

bowbrothersmdb said:


> Hi all, firstly many thanks to this thread! It has helped hugely with my string making. At the moment I only make "Model T" strings... you can have any color as long as it's black!
> 
> Secondly I have a question regarding the spread sheets from BAP and NWSpinner. Why does changing the twist variable NOT affect the post settings? For extreme example, if I make a string with no twists, surely the post setting should be less than if I make a string with 1 twist per inch? Or am I missing something (always possible!)?


I've never used those spreadsheets so I can't speak to them in particular but if you change the twist variable, it will change the initial post setting. The fewer the twists, the shorter the post setting. At least that's how the math works out.


----------



## Bownut400

bowbrothersmdb said:


> Hi all, firstly many thanks to this thread! It has helped hugely with my string making. At the moment I only make "Model T" strings... you can have any color as long as it's black!
> 
> Secondly I have a question regarding the spread sheets from BAP and NWSpinner. Why does changing the twist variable NOT affect the post settings? For extreme example, if I make a string with no twists, surely the post setting should be less than if I make a string with 1 twist per inch? Or am I missing something (always possible!)?


I will check out my spread sheet to see if it is functioning properly. I haven't had time to look at it in a while. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.


----------



## Bownut400

Bownut400 said:


> I will check out my spread sheet to see if it is functioning properly. I haven't had time to look at it in a while. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.


I looked at my spread sheet and found I am missing a formula. I will let everyone know when I fix it. In the mean time you will be able to adjust the length variable to match the results your getting. Sorry


----------



## bowbrothersmdb

Thanks! I only caught it because I was making a recurve string with fewer twists. Otherwise the spread sheet has been very handy and appreciated.


----------



## Bownut400

bowbrothersmdb said:


> Thanks! I only caught it because I was making a recurve string with fewer twists. Otherwise the spread sheet has been very handy and appreciated.


I remembered what I did with that formula after looking at it. The twist will not have a interactive formula, the length formula will have to adjust the post setting length. It takes some experimenting to get it to match what you are getting for length. It would be extremely difficult to get the spread sheet to match every material and layout style. I am continuing to figure out how to improve it in the future, my nerd skills are limited.


----------



## adventurejack

I'm really needing to know the strand count for Fury for the 2017 PSE Evolve 35 (I'm assuming it's 28 for strings and cables) but what about those two floating yoke cables that wrap around the cam. I've posted a plea for help on the string maker's thread as well but no response. I really need help here! Thanks guys.


----------



## Huntinsker

adventurejack said:


> I'm really needing to know the strand count for Fury for the 2017 PSE Evolve 35 (I'm assuming it's 28 for strings and cables) but what about those two floating yoke cables that wrap around the cam. I've posted a plea for help on the string maker's thread as well but no response. I really need help here! Thanks guys.


20. Finished diameter of .090".


----------



## adventurejack

Thank you Huntinsker! You have been a big help for me.


----------



## Golfnut1969

Narf said:


> I still have a lot of reading to do hear, but i would like to get some material ordered soon...what string material would you all recommend starting with? Is some easier to work with than others? I'm just going to do 2 color.
> 
> thanks


I bought a spool of Brownell B50 and Brownell #4 serving material and built about 20 recurve strings. Having never done this before either, I found this a great way to practice. I invested less than $20 to buy both these two materials and get started. I then bought some Dynaflight 97, BCY Halo 0.014 for end servings and some BCY Power Grip .021 for center serving. I built some of these strings for friends with recurves and had them give them a try. 

Currently, I'm looking for cheap compound to use for bowfishing. I plan to build some Fury strings and cables for that. It'll be my first time building a set for a compound, but I learned a lot using the materials above and feel I'm ready to tackle this.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> 20. Finished diameter of .090".


How many strands of BCY X for the floating yokes on a PSE Shootdown would you go with? Mine is on order so I can’t measure anything yet. Thanks


----------



## b0w_bender

Brandon42166 said:


> Well I just made it from page 1-553 (tapatalk pages) of this thread . Got a couple questions.
> 
> 1. So twist clockwise and and serve anti clockwise?
> 
> 2. Where do I find this fishing line you speak of?
> 
> 3. How do I get rid of this lump?
> 
> Ha ha just KIDDING 🤣[emoji23]🤣[emoji23]
> 
> Really on a serious note thanks to huntinsker and automan!! This thread is full of knowledge!! This thread has a lot to offer ! Even had a few villains mixed in there to lol. Thanks to all the other guys to that shared their knowledge also 2x, bowbender, and all the other guys I didn’t mention ! I’ve learnt a lot from this thread!
> 
> That’s one thing I love about archery talk most everyone is willing to help you! Also, if someone on here can’t build it or explain it to you ...most likely it can’t be done...lmao! There is no shortage of talented helpfully people here! Seen lots of good looking jigs and string in this post! You guys deserve a pat on the back!
> 
> Well time to dive head first and order some 20,30,40 lb China fishing line. Do some shopping for and order some fury, halo .014, powergrip .018. Get in touch with bow bender and order a nwspinner. Throw away the brownell server I ordered and order a Beiter Profi (maybe heavy).
> 
> Absolutely love the el cheapo deluxe design! But only string or cables I’ve ever seen break which are only 2. Was broke loops which in both cases I know happened while in a bow case. Which most likely was from being way older then they should’ve been and been neglected for years. Think I’m going order bowhunt400 4 post so I can serve loops.
> 
> So that does leave one question to the 4 post fans...which do you prefer fixed or revolving post? Pros and cons?
> 
> Can’t wait to get started practicing and even playing around with tag in serving so I’ll know how to! Then on to making the practice/test string in 30/60/90. Then on to making string for a few older bows I got and never shoot.
> 
> Once I got a pretty good hang of it I wanna try my take of pin stripping. More of a automobile inspired pin stripe. Love to build a string for my evolve 35 with fury. You know like on a car you got thick primary then thick pin, thin primary then thick pin. Not sure if this is possible or how it would come out but primary of Black pin blue. Maybe laid 7 Black, 2 blue, 2 Black, 3 blue per side to make 28 strand. Lol maybe one of y’all will build a test string and let me see it! Lol
> 
> Well back to watching Ledbetter, bowbinders and 2x videos again...thanks again guys!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the kind words. This was a really funny post I think I still have a bump on my forehead from when it hit the desk after the first 3 questions then... I saw the just kidding comment. Very funny, and well done! I have a rotating 4 post but it is so beefy that I never have to take the string off the posts to stretch it. The twister is built into one of the posts so when I rotate it I can twist and stretch without ever having to take the string off the jig. So for strings where I still serve the loops (Recurve strings mostly) I prefer my design with the rotating posts. Now most of the compound strings I build are tag ends so I don't use that feature at all. I also think Huntsiger is spot on as usual, the rotating mechanism on most jigs simply isn't robust enough to do the things you need to do so I expect after a little bit of experimentation most people would prefer the stationary ones.


----------



## Brandon42166

b0w_bender said:


> Thanks for the kind words. This was a really funny post I think I still have a bump on my forehead from when it hit the desk after the first 3 questions then... I saw the just kidding comment. Very funny, and well done! I have a rotating 4 post but it is so beefy that I never have to take the string off the posts to stretch it. The twister is built into one of the posts so when I rotate it I can twist and stretch without ever having to take the string off the jig. So for strings where I still serve the loops (Recurve strings mostly) I prefer my design with the rotating posts. Now most of the compound strings I build are tag ends so I don't use that feature at all. I also think Huntsiger is spot on as usual, the rotating mechanism on most jigs simply isn't robust enough to do the things you need to do so I expect after a little bit of experimentation most people would prefer the stationary ones.


Thanks everyone for your replies! I appreciate you all sharing your knowledge! Lol sorry I like to cut up [emoji23]🤣. I got my new Beiter server in the mail today! Just waiting on some materials to come in so I can use what all y’all taught me! Can’t wait to get to making some strings! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> How many strands of BCY X for the floating yokes on a PSE Shootdown would you go with? Mine is on order so I can’t measure anything yet. Thanks


I haven't actually had any of the new PSEs in hand so I'm relaying what I've learned from other builders. The yokes on the Evolve cam bows spec out to between .083-.095" depending on the post that I've read and the person measuring. It's a good idea to try and hit the .090" mark for the yoke cable finished diameter. I'd guess that'd put you at 18 strands depending on the color.


----------



## lab32

lunghit said:


> How many strands of BCY X for the floating yokes on a PSE Shootdown would you go with? Mine is on order so I can’t measure anything yet. Thanks


my new Xpedite yokes are 16 strands of 452x. Just made new set: 24 strands of Mercury with Halo .014 finished diameter 2.3 mm works. For BCY-X 16-18 strands.

*Huntinsker* thank you for this thread. Thanks for all guys posted here. Reading this for more than a year, building strings for a year (BCY-X, Mercury, 452x, 8190f) Great reading!


----------



## staroman

Hello,
at first thanks a lot to the community for sharing the knowledge of string making in this thread. Took a lot of hints to make my own string. Now i have a question. How is the correct method to measure the length of a splityoke cable. Of course with tension of 100lbs and on the 1/4" posts. But the split yokes on a single pin or divided to two pins like on the bow?


----------



## lab32

single pin


----------



## MsNipeR

SamT said:


> The purpose of tensioning is not stretching the strands, but *equalizing *the strands within the loops. Generally speaking, the more loops, the more time required to achieve for this process to complete.
> 
> If you thought that tensioning was to take the "stretch" out of the strands, or string and cables, that would be incorrect.


Sorry my english! I was talking about equalize the strands! I have tried few time but each time IT ends in failure. Broken loop or one single broken strand in the loop! I have tensioned it perhaps little over half what i used too! Irritating one single strand but so easy to notice after tension is released!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nestly

MsNipeR said:


> Sorry my english! I was talking about equalize the strands! I have tried few time but each time IT ends in failure. Broken loop or one single broken strand in the loop! I have tensioned it perhaps little over half what i used too! Irritating one single strand but so easy to notice after tension is released!


Make sure you're not wrapping the strands too tightly while laying up the string, especially if your jig is not very sturdy. Each wrap, multiplies the stress on the jig and as that happens, your posts will bend inward and the first loop(s) get looser. Also, if you're tag end serving, make sure you're not pulling the tag ends too tight, you don't want them any tighter when tied off than the other strands. 
Here's some videos that might help with concept and technique.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> I haven't actually had any of the new PSEs in hand so I'm relaying what I've learned from other builders. The yokes on the Evolve cam bows spec out to between .083-.095" depending on the post that I've read and the person measuring. It's a good idea to try and hit the .090" mark for the yoke cable finished diameter. I'd guess that'd put you at 18 strands depending on the color.





lab32 said:


> my new Xpedite yokes are 16 strands of 452x. Just made new set: 24 strands of Mercury with Halo .014 finished diameter 2.3 mm works. For BCY-X 16-18 strands.
> 
> *Huntinsker* thank you for this thread. Thanks for all guys posted here. Reading this for more than a year, building strings for a year (BCY-X, Mercury, 452x, 8190f) Great reading!


Great thanks fellas. Glad I asked because they are thinner in diameter than I thought. I should have my bow in a few weeks and I will be sure to measure first.


----------



## frog gigger

Can anyone comment on what I'm doing wrong with a Prime yoke end??
The yoke twists/coils up when the bow is drawn. I'm talking 3 full turns.

I can't understand these needing a different process v/s a string, but it's not working after 3 attempts.


----------



## lab32

frog gigger said:


> Can anyone comment on what I'm doing wrong with a Prime yoke end??
> The yoke twists/coils up when the bow is drawn. I'm talking 3 full turns.
> 
> I can't understand these needing a different process v/s a string, but it's not working after 3 attempts.


I think too tight serving. Tension at 250-300. Reserve with less tension on serving jig then decrease main jig tension to 0 and check if yoke untwists in the middle. If it stays twisted at 0-100 on jig it won`t twist on the bow.


----------



## skynight

frog gigger said:


> Can anyone comment on what I'm doing wrong with a Prime yoke end??
> The yoke twists/coils up when the bow is drawn. I'm talking 3 full turns.
> 
> I can't understand these needing a different process v/s a string, but it's not working after 3 attempts.


I don't know anything about the specific yoke you're asking about. Only thing that makes sense to me is serving the wrong direction.


----------



## nestly

lab32 said:


> I think too tight serving. ....





skynight said:


> I don't know anything about the specific yoke you're asking about. Only thing that makes sense to me is serving the wrong direction.


Serving direction and serving tension would be my first two guesses, (then a main string that's applying too much twist to the yokes) I've built strings for Primes and didn't have any issue using my normal process (except reduced overall tension because the yokes were only 14 strands so they aren't get too large to lay down on the 2 track cam.)

Below are the dimensions I use for Prime Defy.


----------



## frog gigger

^^^That's exactly how it reacts, but it's not.

As for tension, not much I haven't tried. I'll finally hit something.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> I haven't actually had any of the new PSEs in hand so I'm relaying what I've learned from other builders. The yokes on the Evolve cam bows spec out to between .083-.095" depending on the post that I've read and the person measuring. It's a good idea to try and hit the .090" mark for the yoke cable finished diameter. I'd guess that'd put you at 18 strands depending on the color.





lab32 said:


> my new Xpedite yokes are 16 strands of 452x. Just made new set: 24 strands of Mercury with Halo .014 finished diameter 2.3 mm works. For BCY-X 16-18 strands.
> 
> *Huntinsker* thank you for this thread. Thanks for all guys posted here. Reading this for more than a year, building strings for a year (BCY-X, Mercury, 452x, 8190f) Great reading!


If I am looking to hit .090 is that including with the serving or just the bare strands? Thanks again


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> If I am looking to hit .090 is that including with the serving or just the bare strands? Thanks again


With the serving.


----------



## lunghit

That’s what I thought. Thank you


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## Brandon42166

Merry Christmas brothers from AT! Also, I got my Christmas presents to myself in the mail this week. Thanks to many guys here on AT and the guys in this forum. I’m making my first practice string today. Think it’s not bad for the first time but practice makes perfect. Ignore the color scheme just used two colors I think might not be used as much as my other colors I have.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nestly

Brandon42166 said:


> Merry Christmas brothers from AT! Also, I got my Christmas presents to myself in the mail this week. Thanks to many guys here on AT and the guys in this forum. I’m making my first practice string today. Think it’s not bad for the first time but practice makes perfect. Ignore the color scheme just used two colors I think might not be used as much as my other colors I have.


I'd say you're a natural. String looks great, serving looks great, and even the colors look great.
Congrats and Merry Christmas!


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## Anynamewilldo

This thread helped me build couple strings several years ago and they turned out great. Bought a used 10#-20# genesis bow for my daughter for a nasp program and was hoping for asistance. Anyone know a good thread count for this bow? Also I have a good color for it in trophy but only 8190 in a secondary color. Is there any reason to go two colors since the shoot fingers and no peep? Also any help on serving would be helpful. Going to take some reading to remember everything. Regardless if anyone can help me I always thought this thread was great and Merry Christmas.


----------



## 138104

Brandon42166 said:


> Merry Christmas brothers from AT! Also, I got my Christmas presents to myself in the mail this week. Thanks to many guys here on AT and the guys in this forum. I’m making my first practice string today. Think it’s not bad for the first time but practice makes perfect. Ignore the color scheme just used two colors I think might not be used as much as my other colors I have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That looks great! Do you need someone to test a set? Haha

Top notch equipment too!


----------



## bockja

Thanks everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been a wealth of information. I haven't started building yet but should be setting up my jig this week. I did have one quick question, has anyone put together a database of bow string specs. This would include string and cable lengths as well as where serving is installed on each? I tried using the search function but couldn't find anything.

Thanks in advance.


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## Brandon42166

Perry24 said:


> That looks great! Do you need someone to test a set? Haha
> 
> Top notch equipment too!


Thanks! Lol and no every buddy I got that I haven’t talked to in months is wanting me to make them test strings now lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brandon42166

Huntinsker said:


> With the serving.


Hey quick question for you, I’m using .007 spectra for my endloops and seem to be struggling with my tension. I’m playing around with the four post of course, but seem like my Beiter does amazing with everything but the .007. If I got tension to heavy my strands twist, if I back off the tension the weight of the server it wants to drop off the string slightly. I’m not getting a smooth serving. Thinking about trying the bohning server but maybe you got a trick for me....I can get by with serving a 1/2” or so and pulling down on the server and letting the bundle reset but it takes for ever to serve 2” that way.....my tag end serving looks better then my served endloops. 

One other quick question I’m good on length with a 2 post set up but with 4 post I’m 1/16” short I’m using a length variable of 1.0075 would 1.0090 be end up being to long? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anynamewilldo

Called genesis and they are real helpful. They say they use 14 strands of dynaflight 97. Can anyone tell me how that compares in dia to trophy. The local program needs new strings on most the bows and they can't afford them so after this one we will probably make more so any info appreciated.


----------



## Huntinsker

Brandon42166 said:


> Hey quick question for you, I’m using .007 spectra for my endloops and seem to be struggling with my tension. I’m playing around with the four post of course, but seem like my Beiter does amazing with everything but the .007. If I got tension to heavy my strands twist, if I back off the tension the weight of the server it wants to drop off the string slightly. I’m not getting a smooth serving. Thinking about trying the bohning server but maybe you got a trick for me....I can get by with serving a 1/2” or so and pulling down on the server and letting the bundle reset but it takes for ever to serve 2” that way.....my tag end serving looks better then my served endloops.
> 
> One other quick question I’m good on length with a 2 post set up but with 4 post I’m 1/16” short I’m using a length variable of 1.0075 would 1.0090 be end up being to long?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Those practice strings look great! I like the colors too. 

For serving the loops. I like to put a golf tee between the bundle, angling across the inside of the post so that helps to hold the bundle from twisting. Put it through the end where you're serving and the long side. There's a picture in here of what I mean but I can't remember what page it's on now. You basically just put it in at a 45 degree angle through the bundle on either side of the post on the 4 post setup. When you serve the loop, if you get any twist, it's okay as long as the twist is the "right" amount so that the color that's on top on the right of the loop is also the color that's on top on the left of the loop.

So say you have a red and black string and you laid the red out on top of the black. If you serve the loop and the string twists while serving the loop, it's okay as long as the twist rate is enough that you get a full twist so the red is on top on each side. That way the colors will come together nicely when you twist the string. It's especially important if you're OCD and doing a pinstripe string with clear serving. You want to make sure the loops twist the same number of times and that you serve them correctly.

This is where it's kind of tricky. You want to serve the loops in opposite directions as each other. So if you serve one end from right to left with the bobbin going over the bundle to the inside you would then need to serve the other end going left to right with the bobbin going over the bundle to the inside. One full twist in the loop is okay. Any more than that and it can be trouble. 

I also like to "pre-tension" my 4 post jig, Butch from BAP recently released a 4 post with a stretching end for this reason. I just do it by hooking a short string over the posts on each end of my 4 post and then putting the middle of that short string on each end of my 2 post. I then add tension on my 2 post to pull the 4 post upright. This tightens the bundle and doesn't allow as much twisting while serving the loops. 

For your last question, if you're coming up 1/16" short, I'd just adjust the initial post setting longer by 1/16". You could play with the formula enough to get it just right but if you like the twist rate and all that, 1/16" either way isn't too much to just fudge the initial post setting.


----------



## Huntinsker

bockja said:


> Thanks everyone who has contributed to this thread. It has been a wealth of information. I haven't started building yet but should be setting up my jig this week. I did have one quick question, has anyone put together a database of bow string specs. This would include string and cable lengths as well as where serving is installed on each? I tried using the search function but couldn't find anything.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


The two stickies at the top of the Arrows and Strings sub-forum are just what you're looking for. Just use the search function in the top right of the page. 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=97


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> Called genesis and they are real helpful. They say they use 14 strands of dynaflight 97. Can anyone tell me how that compares in dia to trophy. The local program needs new strings on most the bows and they can't afford them so after this one we will probably make more so any info appreciated.


20 strands of Trophy should get you pretty close. You could even do 18 if you want. The bows are not heavy enough poundage to worry about stability going with lower strand counts, you just want to fit the cam tracks well enough. 

I've done 2 and even 3 color strings for Genesis bows with no problems but if you only have a single color in your material, that'll work fine too. Nothing really different about building Genesis strings compared to other compound strings. For serving, 3d would work great for end servings and for centers, 62xs works well. Just need to get their nock fits right so you may need to experiment with the size. If you used Halo on the buss cables and for the center serving, the strings would probably last forever on a Genesis as long as they didn't cut strands some how.


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## Brandon42166

Huntinsker said:


> Those practice strings look great! I like the colors too.
> 
> For serving the loops. I like to put a golf tee between the bundle, angling across the inside of the post so that helps to hold the bundle from twisting. Put it through the end where you're serving and the long side. There's a picture in here of what I mean but I can't remember what page it's on now. You basically just put it in at a 45 degree angle through the bundle on either side of the post on the 4 post setup. When you serve the loop, if you get any twist, it's okay as long as the twist is the "right" amount so that the color that's on top on the right of the loop is also the color that's on top on the left of the loop.
> 
> So say you have a red and black string and you laid the red out on top of the black. If you serve the loop and the string twists while serving the loop, it's okay as long as the twist rate is enough that you get a full twist so the red is on top on each side. That way the colors will come together nicely when you twist the string. It's especially important if you're OCD and doing a pinstripe string with clear serving. You want to make sure the loops twist the same number of times and that you serve them correctly.
> 
> This is where it's kind of tricky. You want to serve the loops in opposite directions as each other. So if you serve one end from right to left with the bobbin going over the bundle to the inside you would then need to serve the other end going left to right with the bobbin going over the bundle to the inside. One full twist in the loop is okay. Any more than that and it can be trouble.
> 
> I also like to "pre-tension" my 4 post jig, Butch from BAP recently released a 4 post with a stretching end for this reason. I just do it by hooking a short string over the posts on each end of my 4 post and then putting the middle of that short string on each end of my 2 post. I then add tension on my 2 post to pull the 4 post upright. This tightens the bundle and doesn't allow as much twisting while serving the loops.
> 
> For your last question, if you're coming up 1/16" short, I'd just adjust the initial post setting longer by 1/16". You could play with the formula enough to get it just right but if you like the twist rate and all that, 1/16" either way isn't too much to just fudge the initial post setting.


Thanks! I’ll try that (golf tees) I haven’t been going opposite direction on end loops I’ll try that! Yep I’m addicted now lol just made 3 different color schemes for an old dust collector bow but I’m hooked !










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anynamewilldo

TY huntinsker. If memory serves I have 62xs serving, not sure what else. I found my original questions for my first strings near the beginning of this thead so it been 4 years since I made my first strings but haven't shot much due to shoulder problems. Shoulder feeling better now and I think its time to replace those strings also. Four years and zero rotation on the athens even though I realize it hasn't been shot much so that helps. 

Also If anyone remembers there was a program(Think from nw spinner but maybe not) but i can't find it on my computer that had suggested string leanths and number of twist so you didn't have to do that math everytime. Anyone still use that and now where I could find it? It worked great for me.


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> TY huntinsker. If memory serves I have 62xs serving, not sure what else. I found my original questions for my first strings near the beginning of this thead so it been 4 years since I made my first strings but haven't shot much due to shoulder problems. Shoulder feeling better now and I think its time to replace those strings also. Four years and zero rotation on the athens even though I realize it hasn't been shot much so that helps.
> 
> Also If anyone remembers there was a program(Think from nw spinner but maybe not) but i can't find it on my computer that had suggested string leanths and number of twist so you didn't have to do that math everytime. Anyone still use that and now where I could find it? It worked great for me.


http://nwspinner.com/index.php/adjusting-for-twists-and-stretch


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## 138104

Brandon42166 said:


> Thanks! Lol and no every buddy I got that I haven’t talked to in months is wanting me to make them test strings now lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


By the looks of your strings below, your buddies are going to get a great set.


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## Brandon42166

Perry24 said:


> By the looks of your strings below, your buddies are going to get a great set.


Lol I hope they turn out good, just made 2 rookie mistakes and had to start over. Lesson learned though! I think I fixed my end loop issues though thanks to OP always being so helpful, that little hump bothers me but they going get twisted anyways.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brandon42166

Brandon42166 said:


> Lol I hope they turn out good, just made 2 rookie mistakes and had to start over. Lesson learned though! I think I fixed my end loop issues though thanks to OP always being so helpful, that little hump bothers me but they going get twisted anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do need to make me a spooling jig like automan did....I spooled some .007 the other night by hand and a drill and awhile ago I liked 10 wraps on a end loop and my server locked up took me 30 minutes to get the spool unknotted .....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Anynamewilldo

TY for all the help. Last question hopefully. Built the string. The center serving on the string that was on the bow was wayyyy to thick imo. However I don't want to be to loose. On my hunting bows I go where the arrow will slide up and down with out great force or even just a tad loose. However that was with nocking points and d loop and a release. Didn't know if I wanted it to be able slide on the serving with one nocking point and fingers? Posted this in the general forum also cause Im hoping to reserve it in the morning so she can shoot in the afternoon. I did it once but what I used was to loose regardless.


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## soldier1265

If anyone is looking for material, I know where there is a pretty good lot in the classifieds.


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## Huntinsker

Anynamewilldo said:


> TY for all the help. Last question hopefully. Built the string. The center serving on the string that was on the bow was wayyyy to thick imo. However I don't want to be to loose. On my hunting bows I go where the arrow will slide up and down with out great force or even just a tad loose. However that was with nocking points and d loop and a release. Didn't know if I wanted it to be able slide on the serving with one nocking point and fingers? Posted this in the general forum also cause Im hoping to reserve it in the morning so she can shoot in the afternoon. I did it once but what I used was to loose regardless.


Only way to know what works for her is to get her particular nocks and make the fit correct. For me personally, on my finger bows, I like a slightly tighter fit than on my compounds with d-loops. That way if I do get any string pinch or finger pinch, the nock stays in place. I still use a nock set tied above and below my nock but because I shoot 3 fingers under, I like the nock a little tighter so it doesn't want to pop off the string. 

Most of the good NASP shooters that I've known also shoot 3 under and some even "string walk" to get their point on correct. They definitely need a nock set above and below the arrow in that case.


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## Anynamewilldo

Alright . TY. Maybe its not a rule and just suggested but the coach said couple weeks ago to just put a nock set above and they do shoot 3 fingers under. Ill go for the snugger fit. I had to put new nocks on the arrows cause they were inconsistent on the grip. Before I relized this I had center served according to the tightest one but I didn't realize it was the tightest one till we went and shot and she was all over the place. The tighter one is consistently 10" low hence the new nocks. What I had was .014,tried little .016 and it was close to what I like for hunting but will try .019 and see how it shoots. What was on the old string was so tight it was wearing groves in the center serving and was imposable to slide up and down. With the looser serving I think I could visually see an increase in speed its so much difference,


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## ory66

That is awesome workmanship, I would like to learn to do that!


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## freefall619

Hey y'all, When making yokes for a mathews, do you do the math, layup and twist or just build them straight?


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## lunghit

lunghit said:


> How many strands of BCY X for the floating yokes on a PSE Shootdown would you go with? Mine is on order so I can’t measure anything yet. Thanks





Huntinsker said:


> I haven't actually had any of the new PSEs in hand so I'm relaying what I've learned from other builders. The yokes on the Evolve cam bows spec out to between .083-.095" depending on the post that I've read and the person measuring. It's a good idea to try and hit the .090" mark for the yoke cable finished diameter. I'd guess that'd put you at 18 strands depending on the color.


Ok just finished my PSE Evolve yokes yesterday and so everyone knows the info from Huntinsker above was spot on. I did 18 strands with .014 Halo serving and they finished exactly .090. Colors are black, white and gold pin.


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## chasemukluk

Starting my second set!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## chasemukluk

chasemukluk said:


> Starting my second set!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


1st cable done.









Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

freefall619 said:


> Hey y'all, When making yokes for a mathews, do you do the math, layup and twist or just build them straight?


Have to build them straight, with no twist, then roll the loops to the final length. It's not a true twist but it's the way they're made. Could also tag end serve them I suppose but that'd take along time to do.


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## freefall619

Huntinsker said:


> Have to build them straight, with no twist, then roll the loops to the final length. It's not a true twist but it's the way they're made. Could also tag end serve them I suppose but that'd take along time to do.


That’s what I ended up doing. Worked great. Thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattafliving

freefall619 said:


> That’s what I ended up doing. Worked great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://youtu.be/FUAo139909Y


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Where's the pdf for the jig?


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## b0w_bender

how has this thread not become a sticky?


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## Huntinsker

b0w_bender said:


> how has this thread not become a sticky?


It's too helpful I guess haha. I'd say maybe the big string sponsors might take issue with it and they pay the bills.


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## TN ARCHER

lunghit said:


> Ok just finished my PSE Evolve yokes yesterday and so everyone knows the info from Huntinsker above was spot on. I did 18 strands with .014 Halo serving and they finished exactly .090. Colors are black, white and gold pin.


I picked up an evolve to try for 3d this year. I broke it down tonight and made string/serving measurements. 
My yokes were 14 strands. Not sure who made the strings but no way there OEM! Looks like X. 

Any one know what material came from pse on these evolves??


----------



## TN ARCHER

Has anyone tried making them completely served or would that not work at All?


----------



## Huntinsker

TN ARCHER said:


> I picked up an evolve to try for 3d this year. I broke it down tonight and made string/serving measurements.
> My yokes were 14 strands. Not sure who made the strings but no way there OEM! Looks like X.
> 
> Any one know what material came from pse on these evolves??


ABB makes them with 16 strands of 452x. 

I haven't seen any made that are completely served. I'd imagine if you do, you'd need to use some pretty small stuff so it fits properly into the splitter. Your cable without serving should spec out around .070-.075" or so. You also wouldn't be able to adjust the length at all by twisting it.


----------



## C.D.T

If it's completely served how will you make twist adjustments when needed?


----------



## C.D.T

Quick question regarding string twisting. 
Do any of you who have a BAP or similar single ended winding twister stretcher have any issues with the twists being uneven form the furthest end of the string compared to the twisting handle end or is it a non issue?
I know the super server twistd both ends


----------



## lunghit

C.D.T said:


> Quick question regarding string twisting.
> Do any of you who have a BAP or similar single ended winding twister stretcher have any issues with the twists being uneven form the furthest end of the string compared to the twisting handle end or is it a non issue?
> I know the super server twistd both ends


Little Jon jig and I have no issues at all with uneven twists. If I twist a string and remove it you would never be able to tell what end was on the stationary post and what was on the twisting post.


----------



## C.D.T

lunghit said:


> Little Jon jig and I have no issues at all with uneven twists. If I twist a string and remove it you would never be able to tell what end was on the stationary post and what was on the twisting post.


That is good to know


----------



## nestly

lunghit said:


> Little Jon jig and I have no issues at all with uneven twists. If I twist a string and remove it you would never be able to tell what end was on the stationary post and what was on the twisting post.


Right, It should make no difference whether the string is twisted from one end, or both ends.


----------



## Jason_Haught

Following

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## mattafliving

C.D.T said:


> Quick question regarding string twisting.
> Do any of you who have a BAP or similar single ended winding twister stretcher have any issues with the twists being uneven form the furthest end of the string compared to the twisting handle end or is it a non issue?
> I know the super server twistd both ends


I have the BAP and a super server, only time I would think you would get uneven twist from end to end is if you twisted with zero tension. Even with the uneven twist, it would equalize the twist once you go to stretch it. Only thing I think this would affect is appearance when doing pinstripes or more than 2 color strings. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Huntinsker said:


> ABB makes them with 16 strands of 452x.
> 
> I haven't seen any made that are completely served. I'd imagine if you do, you'd need to use some pretty small stuff so it fits properly into the splitter. Your cable without serving should spec out around .070-.075" or so. You also wouldn't be able to adjust the length at all by twisting it.


I just remembered that ABB isn't making their strings anymore. PSE made a fancy robot/machine to make their "Livewire" strings. Anyway, I guess they're still 16 strands of 452x no matter who makes them.


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## chporter58

TTT makes it easier to find when I need something:wink: Charlie


----------



## JF from VA

This question may have been asked before, but I will bring it up again. What kind of finger protection do you use when serving? I have gotten back into string building and my fingers have gotten tender from the backserving process.


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## automan26

I use mechanic's gloves with some of the fingertips trimmed off.

Automan


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## automan26

I use mechanic's gloves with some of the fingertips trimmed off.

Automan


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## SamT

I use a nail that I bent and sharpened on the end to pull with on my backwraps to keep tight.
Saves my fingers big time!










Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## JF from VA

I have a question for you string makers about the diameter of strings/cables for an Elite. I am currently building a set of strings & cables for an Elite Victory. The material is 452X with 22 strands on the string and 24 strands on the cables. The end serving is 3D. This evening while surfing around, I found a 2010 tuning video from Elite. In this video they said the diameter of the string or cable must be no greater than .100 within 1/4" of the post. The reason given was clearance. Comparing the factory strings that came on the bow with my strings, diameter was about the same, however, at the post the diameter doesn't taper down until about 3/8"-1/2" from the post. Has anyone had experience building strings for and Elite and did you notice any clearance issues?

If this truly is a problem, I guess I could either rebuild the strings or take off the serving and re-serve with Halo.


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## 138104

Built my first string this afternoon. Overall, went pretty well. Now to build a set for my bow and see how they perform.

Where can I find how many strands I need to use for my bow? Also, if I use 8190, do I need to use more strands?


----------



## mattafliving

JF from VA said:


> I have a question for you string makers about the diameter of strings/cables for an Elite. I am currently building a set of strings & cables for an Elite Victory. The material is 452X with 22 strands on the string and 24 strands on the cables. The end serving is 3D. This evening while surfing around, I found a 2010 tuning video from Elite. In this video they said the diameter of the string or cable must be no greater than .100 within 1/4" of the post. The reason given was clearance. Comparing the factory strings that came on the bow with my strings, diameter was about the same, however, at the post the diameter doesn't taper down until about 3/8"-1/2" from the post. Has anyone had experience building strings for and Elite and did you notice any clearance issues?
> 
> If this truly is a problem, I guess I could either rebuild the strings or take off the serving and re-serve with Halo.


Hard to tell if you would have a clearance issue without being able to look at it, but I don’t recommend serving the shoot string with halo.

Also, I build all elite strings using 24 strands and have never received any feedback about them being to large or clearance issue. 

I make elite end loops 1/2-5/8 of inch finished loop. 

Post a pic so people can see what you are concerned about. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Built my first string this afternoon. Overall, went pretty well. Now to build a set for my bow and see how they perform.
> 
> Where can I find how many strands I need to use for my bow? Also, if I use 8190, do I need to use more strands?


Most bow manufacture use a standard of 24 strands for the shoot string. Although bowtech uses 20-22 stands depending on the bow. The part where you need to make sure the strand count is correct is on bow with floating yoke systems or prime bows. It’s also depends on the material you are using. 

Most non blended materials, like Brownell Fury or BCY mercury, run a higher strand count because they are a smaller diameter material. 

What bow are you making a string set for? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> Most bow manufacture use a standard of 24 strands for the shoot string. Although bowtech uses 20-22 stands depending on the bow. The part where you need to make sure the strand count is correct is on bow with floating yoke systems or prime bows. It’s also depends on the material you are using.
> 
> Most non blended materials, like Brownell Fury or BCY mercury, run a higher strand count because they are a smaller diameter material.
> 
> What bow are you making a string set for?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. It's for an E35. I have Trophy and 8190 to play with.


----------



## chasemukluk

mattafliving said:


> Hard to tell if you would have a clearance issue without being able to look at it, but I don’t recommend serving the shoot string with halo.
> 
> Also, I build all elite strings using 24 strands and have never received any feedback about them being to large or clearance issue.
> 
> I make elite end loops 1/2-5/8 of inch finished loop.
> 
> Post a pic so people can see what you are concerned about.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you mind me asking what you serve the shoot string with?

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## 138104

chasemukluk said:


> Do you mind me asking what you serve the shoot string with?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


I have 3D serving. Also, this will be my first set.


----------



## mattafliving

chasemukluk said:


> Do you mind me asking what you serve the shoot string with?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


I serve my shoot string with 3D for the end serving. This has yielded the most stable strings I have been able to make. 3D serving is twisted vs braided and doesn’t tend to induce S much twist in the shoot string. 

I serve the center serving with BCY powergrip. The name explains it all and no one like their center serving shifting. You just need to be extra careful as to not induce twist in to the string. If possible use string clamps.

Go string stops I use halo because it’s such a small area that it’s ability to add rotation in negligible. 


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## chasemukluk

mattafliving said:


> I serve my shoot string with 3D for the end serving. This has yielded the most stable strings I have been able to make. 3D serving is twisted vs braided and doesn’t tend to induce S much twist in the shoot string.
> 
> I serve the center serving with BCY powergrip. The name explains it all and no one like their center serving shifting. You just need to be extra careful as to not induce twist in to the string. If possible use string clamps.
> 
> Go string stops I use halo because it’s such a small area that it’s ability to add rotation in negligible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!

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## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. It's for an E35. I have Trophy and 8190 to play with.


Trophy is a slightly larger material so 22 strands is probably perfect. 


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## NoviceAddicted

I'm having trouble finding a cheap solution if there is one to this issue. I'm pretty comfortable with my string making setup but have one thing that is stumping me. I'm trying to find a quicker way to remove servings to reserve, than putting string on posts under tension and removing by hand. If anyone has any tips, techniques, cheap solutions to help. Not really looking to go to motorized serving machines unless someone is giving away. lol It's all about the speed removing servings without messing up strings. Thanks for any help!


----------



## 138104

mattafliving said:


> Trophy is a slightly larger material so 22 strands is probably perfect.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, 22 strands for shooting string and 24 for cables if I use Trophy?


----------



## Madkaw284

mattafliving said:


> Hard to tell if you would have a clearance issue without being able to look at it, but I don’t recommend serving the shoot string with halo.
> 
> Also, I build all elite strings using 24 strands and have never received any feedback about them being to large or clearance issue.
> 
> I make elite end loops 1/2-5/8 of inch finished loop.
> 
> Post a pic so people can see what you are concerned about.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just wondering. Why would you recommend against Halo? That’s a great serving material


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## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> So, 22 strands for shooting string and 24 for cables if I use Trophy?


On an Elite, I'd probably go 22 strands of Trophy all around. They have pretty tight cable tracks so to prevent premature serving separation and wear, the smaller bundle may be better.


----------



## skynight

NoviceAddicted said:


> I'm having trouble finding a cheap solution if there is one to this issue. I'm pretty comfortable with my string making setup but have one thing that is stumping me. I'm trying to find a quicker way to remove servings to reserve, than putting string on posts under tension and removing by hand. If anyone has any tips, techniques, cheap solutions to help. Not really looking to go to motorized serving machines unless someone is giving away. lol It's all about the speed removing servings without messing up strings. Thanks for any help!


It is a problem. Best I've come up with is to pull the serving out so the wraps stretch along the bundle. Then pull on a wrap five to eight back and it will unwrap them all at once.


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## NoviceAddicted

Thanks skyknight. I have done that still a slow process. I have a few things that popped into my mind and going to experiment with them using old strings just sitting in a box, so no loss.


----------



## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> Thanks skyknight. I have done that still a slow process. I have a few things that popped into my mind and going to experiment with them using old strings just sitting in a box, so no loss.


The way I do it is to cut the last wrap of serving and then push the serving in the opposite direction it was laid onto the string. This essentially rolls it around the string causing it to go really loose. At that point, if you don't pull too fast, you can pull on the serving from the middle and the end will begin to unwind. If you pull too fast though, it'll just cinch back down around the string.


----------



## chasemukluk

Hey all,
I just finished my 3rd set of strings and decided to make a How to video to compliment this thread here on AT. I have also included a link back to the thread in my description as well. The first video is out and it is all about layout. There will be 4 videos in all. I'll release the next one next week. Feel free to comment below the video if you have found better ways to do some of the basic things I'm doing in the video. 

https://youtu.be/pUNFXd5_6n8

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## automan26

chasemukluk said:


> Hey all,
> I just finished my 3rd set of strings and decided to make a How to video to compliment this thread here on AT. I have also included a link back to the thread in my description as well. The first video is out and it is all about layout. There will be 4 videos in all. I'll release the next one next week. Feel free to comment below the video if you have found better ways to do some of the basic things I'm doing in the video.
> 
> https://youtu.be/pUNFXd5_6n8
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Very, very nice video. If the next three are as good as this first one, you will really have something to be proud of. I have paid good money in the past for string building videos that weren't half of what I have seen from you so far. You are going to make a great contribution to guys who want to get started building strings and just need a shot of confidence to get going.

U Dun Gud!!!!

Automan


----------



## chasemukluk

automan26 said:


> Very, very nice video. If the next three are as good as this first one, you will really have something to be proud of. I have paid good money in the past for string building videos that weren't half of what I have seen from you so far. You are going to make a great contribution to guys who want to get started building strings and just need a shot of confidence to get going.
> 
> U Dun Gud!!!!
> 
> Automan


Thanks! And every time I build a string a think about the fact that you were nice enough to tap the nuts and bolts for me!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> On an Elite, I'd probably go 22 strands of Trophy all around. They have pretty tight cable tracks so to prevent premature serving separation and wear, the smaller bundle may be better.


Well, wasn't paying attention and built the cables with 24 strands. They should be fine though. Do I build the string with 24 or 22? I will be using 3d serving and .018 62xs center serving.


----------



## 138104

String is stretching right now. Used 22 strands. Layout was 10 for color #1 and 12 for color #2. Hope that was correct! Looks ok twisted up. I'll serve tomorrow night and then install Sat.


----------



## caspian

that might be a tad loose for nock fit with .018 centre serving, if so 0.022 will fix it. or pad the centre serving with a couple of scrap strands.


----------



## 138104

caspian said:


> that might be a tad loose for nock fit with .018 centre serving, if so 0.022 will fix it. or pad the centre serving with a couple of scrap strands.


Thanks. In hindsight, I wish I would have built a couple of shorter strings with different strand counts to get an idea of finished diameter. If anyone has that info already, post it up. I think it would be helpful for us newbies.


----------



## NoviceAddicted

Thanks Huntinsker I will try that. I'm going to try something else too that came to me while thinking about it that might work, also without spending any money. I'm going to cut the servings towards the middle of string for end servings under tension to free them, then hang open loop of one end of string from a hook, putting a nut with a little weight through bottom of string to work up string as I loosely folding string and attaching it to itself with electrical tape, making sure i double fold tape to not mark string and leaving a tab to easily, quickly take tape off after finished, pull freed serving end down at a slight angle and hopefully let centrifugal force work the string to spin around the serving thread as I pull on it, then just flip the whole process to do the other end serving. I am hoping this process will cut time down drastically for taking long end servings off and also think it won't affect integrity of two color string separation or pinstripes or whatever strings you build. I don't think it will but it might be a good idea to run a piece of string material before through whatever colors you want to keep separate for when you reserve strings. I am going to do this with my junk pile of old strings first. lol


----------



## x-it

skynight said:


> It is a problem. Best I've come up with is to pull the serving out so the wraps stretch along the bundle. Then pull on a wrap five to eight back and it will unwrap them all at once.


Like he said no easy way. This is the way i do it


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## 138104

For a solid colored string, do you lay it out like a 2 color string or is there a better way? Going to make flo pink and silver string and then 1 flo pink and 1 silver cable for my son's bow.


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## chasemukluk

Perry24 said:


> For a solid colored string, do you lay it out like a 2 color string or is there a better way? Going to make flo pink and silver string and then 1 flo pink and 1 silver cable for my son's bow.


I lay it out the same. I've only built a few strings, but I lay 6 wraps starting on one end and then 6 more starting on the other end. 

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## 138104

chasemukluk said:


> I lay it out the same. I've only built a few strings, but I lay 6 wraps starting on one end and then 6 more starting on the other end.
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Thanks. This string building is addictive, but time consuming!


----------



## chasemukluk

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. This string building is addictive, but time consuming!


I agree. I enjoy it. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## chasemukluk

chasemukluk said:


> Hey all,
> I just finished my 3rd set of strings and decided to make a How to video to compliment this thread here on AT. I have also included a link back to the thread in my description as well. The first video is out and it is all about layout. There will be 4 videos in all. I'll release the next one next week. Feel free to comment below the video if you have found better ways to do some of the basic things I'm doing in the video.
> 
> https://youtu.be/pUNFXd5_6n8
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Video 2 will be posted tomorrow afternoon, but if you want the link now, let me know. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Figure I would post up a picture of the string. Also have the flo pink cable finished. One i get home from my son's soccer practice, I'll build the silver cable and then start serving.


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## chasemukluk

How to Build a Bowstring Video 2 is up! Video 3 will be up mid week! Video 4 next weekend. I used this thread to learn how to build a string, and figured I would make a video to go along with it. 

https://youtu.be/aIJlJDolA6c

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## boilerfarmer12

Maybe this has been covered before:
Any tips on serving end loops with only a 2 post system? I did this one last night by laying the strands, looping the tag ends loosely, tucking them through the center of the bundles, marking the center on the posts and laying a 2” served area with .007” braided fishing line. Stretched it last night. Plan on serving when I get back home from a work trip on Thursday. Hows it look?


----------



## skynight

Perry24 said:


> For a solid colored string, do you lay it out like a 2 color string or is there a better way? Going to make flo pink and silver string and then 1 flo pink and 1 silver cable for my son's bow.


I lay out a single color as one strand wrapped 12 times, with only two tag ends. I do not tag end serve so that may affect your needs.
Personally I think this makes the most stable string, as well as the simplest process. For my own purposes this is what I make, but for for others I will make a two color string. All that fancier stuff I leave for you fellas.


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Maybe this has been covered before:
> Any tips on serving end loops with only a 2 post system? I did this one last night by laying the strands, looping the tag ends loosely, tucking them through the center of the bundles, marking the center on the posts and laying a 2” served area with .007” braided fishing line. Stretched it last night. Plan on serving when I get back home from a work trip on Thursday. Hows it look?
> View attachment 6402623


That looks pretty good. I can't really picture what you've described but if yours came out like that without tag ends slipping, you must have done something better than what I did in my attempts to serve the loops on a 2 post setup. I just gave up and built a 4 post jig.


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## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> That looks pretty good. I can't really picture what you've described but if yours came out like that without tag ends slipping, you must have done something better than what I did in my attempts to serve the loops on a 2 post setup. I just gave up and built a 4 post jig.


I will try to take some pics when I do my cables. I just made sure to keep pulling the tag ends tight.


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## chasemukluk

Here is part 3 of the series I made based off of this thread. It's on stretching, twisting and burnishing. 

https://youtu.be/jVM8vDbE9uQ

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## boilerfarmer12

I feel stupid for asking this because I still mentally struggle with this. Does the below picture look right? Trying to understand serving direction.


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## Kansas Kid

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I feel stupid for asking this because I still mentally struggle with this. Does the below picture look right? Trying to understand serving direction.
> View attachment 6403969


Your illustration would be for a Clockwise twisted string. You want to serve in the direction that would tighten the twists in front of the serving jig.


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## boilerfarmer12

Kansas Kid said:


> Your illustration would be for a Clockwise twisted string. You want to serve in the direction that would tighten the twists in front of the serving jig.


Would it be correct if I was serving from the loops to the center?


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## Kansas Kid

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Would it be correct if I was serving from the loops to the center?


Yes. For CCW twisted string, your illustration would be correct if you serve from right to left, going away from the right side loop, and then left to right going away from the left side loop.


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## boilerfarmer12

Kansas Kid said:


> Yes. For CCW twisted string, your illustration would be correct if you serve from right to left, going away from the right side loop, and then left to right going away from the left side loop.


So if I want to serve towards the loops I just need to do opposite what it shows correct? Same for the string stop and center serving?


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## Kansas Kid

boilerfarmer12 said:


> So if I want to serve towards the loops I just need to do opposite what it shows correct? Same for the string stop and center serving?


That would be correct.


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## israelluis001

Some pretty helpful information through this post


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## Jabr357

This and the picture is very confusing at least for me; what do you mean "left twisted string" ? do you mean twisted counter clockwise? 

I twist my strings clockwise and serve in the direction as was said before that tightens the twists in front of the jig, which is also clockwise for me, right to left. Serving left to right direction gets confusing for me.

wish there was some easy to follow "cheat sheet" on this topic as it is very confusing but critical to get right.


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## boilerfarmer12

Jabr357 said:


> This and the picture is very confusing at least for me; what do you mean "left twisted string" ? do you mean twisted counter clockwise?
> 
> I twist my strings clockwise and serve in the direction as was said before that tightens the twists in front of the jig, which is also clockwise for me, right to left. Serving left to right direction gets confusing for me.
> 
> wish there was some easy to follow "cheat sheet" on this topic as it is very confusing but critical to get right.


yes, I spin my twister handle left, so it is counter clockwise.


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## lunghit

My latest build to match predator fall grey camo on my new PSE. White and black with a gold pin. Tan might have made a better pin but the gold "pops" more


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## automan26

The reason so many guys have difficulty determining the proper serving rotation is that they are trying to visualize what is happening to the string as it is being served and that will screw up your mind every time. First of all---Turn your brain off and stop trying to figure out what is happening. Secondly; If you twist your string clockwise then rotate your serving tool clockwise as you are serving away from yourself. If you add twists counter clockwise, then rotate your serving tool counter clockwise as you are serving away from yourself. Thinking about it will ultimately convince you that this formula is incorrect and, logically it is very believable, but wrong.

Trust me on this one.....This works every time.

Automan


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## automan26

lunghit said:


> My latest build to match predator fall grey camo on my new PSE. White and black with a gold pin. Tan might have made a better pin but the gold "pops" more


Wow!!!! Those colors look great next to that camo pattern.

Automan


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## JF from VA

Jabr357 said:


> This and the picture is very confusing at least for me; what do you mean "left twisted string" ? do you mean twisted counter clockwise?
> 
> I twist my strings clockwise and serve in the direction as was said before that tightens the twists in front of the jig, which is also clockwise for me, right to left. Serving left to right direction gets confusing for me.
> 
> wish there was some easy to follow "cheat sheet" on this topic as it is very confusing but critical to get right.


Here is a good video on serving direction made by Huntinsker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhjWGTA3rBA&t=179s


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## Huntinsker

JF from VA said:


> Here is a good video on serving direction made by Huntinsker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhjWGTA3rBA&t=179s


My video may help but I think Pat did a better job on his video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50TF2sM-1UQ


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## boilerfarmer12

Question on pin stripes:
Have any of you guys read the article Eric Griggs from GAS strings put out? Basically he said pin stripes are a waste of time and add another place for string issues. He was really pushing for solid colored strings to be the most stable. Any opinions on this? I will probably never build a pin stripe set. Most I will do is 2 color strings.


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## skynight

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Question on pin stripes:
> Have any of you guys read the article Eric Griggs from GAS strings put out? Basically he said pin stripes are a waste of time and add another place for string issues. He was really pushing for solid colored strings to be the most stable. Any opinions on this? I will probably never build a pin stripe set. Most I will do is 2 color strings.


He's right in my opinion. Pin stripes and multi colors add tag ends, which complicate loop servings. They add a separate strand to attempt to bring to the same tension as the rest. Bought a bow with a pin stripe string and the pin was visibly loose at brace.
Not saying it can't be done and can certainly look nice. Functionality trumps everything for me, I don't need my strings to match my shoes and purse.


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Question on pin stripes:
> Have any of you guys read the article Eric Griggs from GAS strings put out? Basically he said pin stripes are a waste of time and add another place for string issues. He was really pushing for solid colored strings to be the most stable. Any opinions on this? I will probably never build a pin stripe set. Most I will do is 2 color strings.


Saw it and discussed it with him and many other builders. That's his opinion. My and many other builder's opinion is that if you build it properly, you'll never see a difference. I haven't and neither have thousands of others using pinstripe strings. Will your string be more consistent with single color coming off a single spool? Maybe. The color and wax content will be anyway. The rest is still in the hands of the builder. Some of my best strings have been pinstripes and I have pins on my target bows without issue. You're also seeing them more and more on bows of the world's top archers. Really, if you look close at many of the best shooters in the world, their strings are what I would consider throwaways that wouldn't make it off my jig and yet, they're shooting at the world level with them. Makes you wonder how good a string really has to be to be good enough.

The consistency of materials that we're able to build with and the improvement in techniques all make for better strings than what you could make years ago. Now days we have it so good, I'd never think twice about stability problems because of the string colors or how many colors there are.


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## boilerfarmer12

Finshed my second solo set today. first time building with 452X and i think i like it better than X. used fishing line for the serving. gonna order a smaller diameter for the next ones. served the cables for the PSE roller guard with .007". gonna shoot them some tomorrow and check everything again.


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## chasemukluk

Just finished this set up for a friend. I've put about 25-50 arrows down range and the peep hasn't moved at all! Thanks so much for putting this thread together!









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## automan26

I am thrilled to see guys cranking out their first sets of strings that are of the quality it took me years to achieve. You should be proud of your accomplishments.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Those look great guys! You should be proud of what you've produced. It's great to see new builders finding and enjoying this thread and community we have here in the DIY forum. Good stuff.


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## boilerfarmer12

when cleaning up I did run into a mistake on my part. I served my end servings with .021" center serving. seems to be ok, but I bet I will see some speed loss. probably a little higher holding weight as well due to lower letoff. 

I also used some .014" on a junk string, and tried to get it to turn clear. I had to really crank up my serving jig to get it tight enough for this. to the point it was noticeably adding twists to my string. I did take it off the posts and string didn't seem to want to untwist or anything. is there any problem with serving a string at a higher tension than you stretched it for the hour at?


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> when cleaning up I did run into a mistake on my part. I served my end servings with .021" center serving. seems to be ok, but I bet I will see some speed loss. probably a little higher holding weight as well due to lower letoff.
> 
> I also used some .014" on a junk string, and tried to get it to turn clear. I had to really crank up my serving jig to get it tight enough for this. to the point it was noticeably adding twists to my string. I did take it off the posts and string didn't seem to want to untwist or anything. is there any problem with serving a string at a higher tension than you stretched it for the hour at?


If your string is twisting too much while serving you will run into peep rotation problems. Make sure you clamp the string so it can't turn and if you want clear serving, get a clarifier to help the serving turn clear. Black Magic Tire Wet is a good one that you can get a bunch of pretty cheaply. Lots of builders use that or just regular mineral oil. Just wipe it on and rub it in and then wipe off the excess.

You also have be using the right colors of strings for clear serving. Flo colors with high contrast will work well but if you did dark colors, you'll always see a "milky" color to the clear serving. Black can work but again, the contrasting color needs to be bright.


----------



## boilerfarmer12

Good info. Thanks. I have string clamps coming from baker. How do u clamp the ends so U can do the end serving? I serve towards the loops and it seems like it twists the string as I’m moving towards the loop.


----------



## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Good info. Thanks. I have string clamps coming from baker. How do u clamp the ends so U can do the end serving? I serve towards the loops and it seems like it twists the string as I’m moving towards the loop.


Nothing you can do but stretch it tight and clamp it solid. Using a quality serving bobbin will help the serving feed more smoothly and will keep things more even. I prefer a Beiter for that job.


----------



## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> Nothing you can do but stretch it tight and clamp it solid. Using a quality serving bobbin will help the serving feed more smoothly and will keep things more even. I prefer a Beiter for that job.


I have two beiters. I will try it on the next set to stretch tighter.


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## automan26

Berkeley Ultracast Crystal, 20# really gets clear. I have been using it for awhile.

Automan


----------



## boilerfarmer12

automan26 said:


> Berkeley Ultracast Crystal, 20# really gets clear. I have been using it for awhile.
> 
> Automan


thanks for the heads up. I ordered some 40# in white (.013") and may try some 30# also.


----------



## deerbum

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I have two beiters. I will try it on the next set to stretch tighter.


Here's what I use for clamps, it's what I had in my shop and think its about the easiest way to clamp a string. I keep one hand on a clamp while power serving to eliminate the bounce and try to keep around 12" or less between the clamps or clamp and end post. On a 20" end serving I'll move them a few times.









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## SamT

deerbum said:


> Here's what I use for clamps, it's what I had in my shop and think its about the easiest way to clamp a string. I keep one hand on a clamp while power serving to eliminate the bounce and try to keep around 12" or less between the clamps or clamp and end post. On a 20" end serving I'll move them a few times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Hey, I thought I was the only one using Irwin Quick-Grip clamps! LOL

They work great!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## tered

String and cable lengths for a Hoyt Cybertex xt2000.
Please. I thinks its a 2003 bow

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## lab32

http://https://hoyt.com/support/tunecharts/tag/cybertec


----------



## AR Archer

2013 Hoyt Carbon Element G3 Buss Cable
Just built a set of strings and cables for Hoyt carbon element g3. All spec to the right length. However when buss cable is put in the a-a is off by 1/4 inch or so. To get a-a right i have to twist it up until yoke legs start to twist on each other. Do the buss cable lengths on this bow run long? Should I build a shorter cable? How much shorter. I don't think it hurts if the yoke legs twist up but I've haven't run into this on other bows that I have built for. Actually I have two of these bows that I have just bought and the other one that is in spec has the yoke legs twisted up also. This is with factory strings. This is what makes me wonder if cable specs are to long. I know that all specs on bow are approximate but 1/4 seems to be a bit much. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## boilerfarmer12

AR Archer said:


> 2013 Hoyt Carbon Element G3 Buss Cable
> Just built a set of strings and cables for Hoyt carbon element g3. All spec to the right length. However when buss cable is put in the a-a is off by 1/4 inch or so. To get a-a right i have to twist it up until yoke legs start to twist on each other. Do the buss cable lengths on this bow run long? Should I build a shorter cable? How much shorter. I don't think it hurts if the yoke legs twist up but I've haven't run into this on other bows that I have built for. Actually I have two of these bows that I have just bought and the other one that is in spec has the yoke legs twisted up also. This is with factory strings. This is what makes me wonder if cable specs are to long. I know that all specs on bow are approximate but 1/4 seems to be a bit much. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


what do the other specs say? IE poundage and DL?


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## AR Archer

Haven't tied a d-loop on yet but pulling by hand poundage feels heavy. Will get loop on this evening and will see. I do know the bow with factory strings the poundage and draw length are ok.


----------



## automan26

AR Archer said:


> 2013 Hoyt Carbon Element G3 Buss Cable
> Just built a set of strings and cables for Hoyt carbon element g3. All spec to the right length. However when buss cable is put in the a-a is off by 1/4 inch or so. To get a-a right i have to twist it up until yoke legs start to twist on each other. Do the buss cable lengths on this bow run long? Should I build a shorter cable? How much shorter. I don't think it hurts if the yoke legs twist up but I've haven't run into this on other bows that I have built for. Actually I have two of these bows that I have just bought and the other one that is in spec has the yoke legs twisted up also. This is with factory strings. This is what makes me wonder if cable specs are to long. I know that all specs on bow are approximate but 1/4 seems to be a bit much. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Hoyt is known for giving out long buss cable specs. Half the Hoyts you see will have the buss cable twisted like a pretzel. Many guys build the buss cable shorter than spec. but I am unable to tell you how much shorter. Maybe someone else can chime in here.

Automan


----------



## AR Archer

Thanks Automan. If I build another I'll probably try at least 1/4" shorter.


----------



## nestly

automan26 said:


> Hoyt is known for giving out long buss cable specs. Half the Hoyts you see will have the buss cable twisted like a pretzel. Many guys build the buss cable shorter than spec. but I am unable to tell you how much shorter. Maybe someone else can chime in here.


I automatically build Hoyt Buss cable 1/8" shorter than the tune charts say for sets I've not had an opportunity to physically measure first. I don't understand why Hoyt tune charts are perpetually long with the buss measurement?


----------



## Huntinsker

AR Archer said:


> 2013 Hoyt Carbon Element G3 Buss Cable
> Just built a set of strings and cables for Hoyt carbon element g3. All spec to the right length. However when buss cable is put in the a-a is off by 1/4 inch or so. To get a-a right i have to twist it up until yoke legs start to twist on each other. Do the buss cable lengths on this bow run long? Should I build a shorter cable? How much shorter. I don't think it hurts if the yoke legs twist up but I've haven't run into this on other bows that I have built for. Actually I have two of these bows that I have just bought and the other one that is in spec has the yoke legs twisted up also. This is with factory strings. This is what makes me wonder if cable specs are to long. I know that all specs on bow are approximate but 1/4 seems to be a bit much. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


It's pretty common practice among string builders to build Hoyt buss cables 1/8-3/16" short and some go a little long on the control cable as well. If you look at pictures of Hoyt bows, many that have factory strings on them have a bunch of twists in the buss cable and very few in the control cable. That's because Hoyt's specs are almost always off a bit in the cables.


----------



## boilerfarmer12

How do YOU use a 3 post string jig?

Tried to use one last night with decent results (well strings are completely done yet so final results are pending).
How do you lay out a two color string and rotate the string around for the second served loop? What do you do with the loose ends when pivoting for the second loop?
Is it ok to end up with 7 strands on one side when doing a 1 color string? IE one end loop will have 7 strands and one will have 6 strands.


----------



## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> How do YOU use a 3 post string jig?
> 
> Tried to use one last night with decent results (well strings are completely done yet so final results are pending).
> How do you lay out a two color string and rotate the string around for the second served loop? What do you do with the loose ends when pivoting for the second loop?
> Is it ok to end up with 7 strands on one side when doing a 1 color string? IE one end loop will have 7 strands and one will have 6 strands.


That's an awfully thin string. If you have 6 strands in one loop, that's only 12 total for the string bundle. Is this a recurve string?


----------



## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> That's an awfully thin string. If you have 6 strands in one loop, that's only 12 total for the string bundle. Is this a recurve string?


SOrry I was thinking about last night when we laid it up. Each side ended up with 7 of one color. So I guess this string would end up with 13 strands in one loop and 12 in the other.


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## boilerfarmer12

After a misshap (forgot to reinstall mods after taking bow apart and drew it back) I got to remake my strings for my Evolve 35. Made some improvements this go around I think. Really happy with the kiwi end serving. Used .016" 3D serving but wondering if I shouldn't have used .014" halo.


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## Huntinsker

Those look nice. You'll be okay with the 3d on the string. If it's going to be a problem, it'll show on the cables where they roll over your modules. 3d isn't as tough to high pressure spots like Halo or other braided serving.


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## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> Those look nice. You'll be okay with the 3d on the string. If it's going to be a problem, it'll show on the cables where they roll over your modules. 3d isn't as tough to high pressure spots like Halo or other braided serving.


thanks. will I separation or shiny look from them being a bit wide?
I also wondered if that .002" would affect letoff quite a bit. I'm getting ready to make some for my Response and want to order brown serving. not sure if I should get halo or 3D.


----------



## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> thanks. will I separation or shiny look from them being a bit wide?
> I also wondered if that .002" would affect letoff quite a bit. I'm getting ready to make some for my Response and want to order brown serving. not sure if I should get halo or 3D.


Because of the difference in construction with 3D and Halo, there really isn't much difference in size and some find that 3D serves smaller than Halo. It's because 3D is twisted rather than braided so it flattens out when served while Halo stays more rounded. 3D is also stronger so you can serve it more tightly without it breaking. Unfortunately because it's twisted and not braided, it's not as resistant to abrasion and doesn't last as long on cable ends. Typically you'll begin to see it get pressed flat and widen out a bit before it starts to cut through. Nice thing about making your own strings is that you can easily re-serve it.


----------



## skynight

boilerfarmer12 said:


> How do YOU use a 3 post string jig?
> 
> Tried to use one last night with decent results (well strings are completely done yet so final results are pending).
> How do you lay out a two color string and rotate the string around for the second served loop? What do you do with the loose ends when pivoting for the second loop?
> Is it ok to end up with 7 strands on one side when doing a 1 color string? IE one end loop will have 7 strands and one will have 6 strands.


I lay them out so all tag ends are on one end. I hate taking the string off the jig with loose tags. If you search this thread you can find my posts detailing my experimentation with this.
I leave all the tags (2 for one color, 4 for two color) tied off at the two post end. After serving the loop, I back serve the tags individually against the loop serving to secure them. I only backserve them around half the bundle or it gets bulky. With two colors the backserved tags will be one after the next, not side by side so as to keep bulk under the end serving down. Pretty sure I have pics of all this about 100 pages ago.


----------



## skynight

boilerfarmer12 said:


> How do YOU use a 3 post string jig?
> 
> Tried to use one last night with decent results (well strings are completely done yet so final results are pending).
> How do you lay out a two color string and rotate the string around for the second served loop? What do you do with the loose ends when pivoting for the second loop?
> Is it ok to end up with 7 strands on one side when doing a 1 color string? IE one end loop will have 7 strands and one will have 6 strands.


I posted a pretty long response that is not showing up in the thread for me. If you look for my posts in this thread about 100 pages ago you will see my experiments with this.


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## SamT

skynight said:


> I posted a pretty long response that is not showing up in the thread for me. If you look for my posts in this thread about 100 pages ago you will see my experiments with this.


in and around post #3318 and page 133.


----------



## tered

question. when taking a bow completely apart what do you all use as a lubricant on the bolts in the limps. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## servingspinner

tered said:


> question. when taking a bow completely apart what do you all use as a lubricant on the bolts in the limps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


Limb bolts should not be lubed

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## Huntinsker

No problem lubing the limb bolts. Companies do that all the time. PSE a couple years ago went way overboard with their grease and it was all over their plastic bags and packaging that the bows would come in. This after they had a bunch of complaints of dry bolts that wouldn't turn and were getting stripped out. 

Anyway, I use Permatex White Lithium grease. A little on the limb bolts, a little on the inside of the limb pockets and a little on the limb rockers and your bow will be quiet as a field mouse.


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## 138104

servingspinner said:


> Limb bolts should not be lubed
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


Um, why?

I use anti-seize. White lithium is probably cleaner.


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## tered

i have the white grease. it is better I feel. just looking for advise. thanks.


Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## lunghit

Do you guys have a way to estimate how much serving material is left on a spool and if you will have enough for your next serve? Lets say you have a 20" end serving to do and the spool is looking a little low. If you double it and strip 40" off would that be enough? Is there any other way to get a somewhat accurate estimate. I have had a few close calls but always made it but I'd hate to get close to the end just to run out and then have to unwind by hand.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Do you guys have a way to estimate how much serving material is left on a spool and if you will have enough for your next serve? Lets say you have a 20" end serving to do and the spool is looking a little low. If you double it and strip 40" off would that be enough? Is there any other way to get a somewhat accurate estimate. I have had a few close calls but always made it but I'd hate to get close to the end just to run out and then have to unwind by hand.


I just cross my fingers or if it's going to be close, I'll grab a new spool and use the used spool for shorter runs. 

I suppose if you wanted to try and get scientific about it you could weigh an empty spool and record the weight. Then fill the spool and weigh it again and record that weight. Then serve 10" and weight that same spool to get the difference before and after the 10" was laid down. That'll give you the weight of 10" of serving so you could weigh your partial spools and compare those to an empty spool weight to see approximately how much serving is on the spool.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> I just cross my fingers or if it's going to be close, I'll grab a new spool and use the used spool for shorter runs.
> 
> I suppose if you wanted to try and get scientific about it you could weigh an empty spool and record the weight. Then fill the spool and weigh it again and record that weight. Then serve 10" and weight that same spool to get the difference before and after the 10" was laid down. That'll give you the weight of 10" of serving so you could weigh your partial spools and compare those to an empty spool weight to see approximately how much serving is on the spool.


Yes so far crossing my fingers has worked and if it looks close I also start a new spool. I will keep crossing my fingers and hope for the best because weighing everything is way to scientific for me lol.


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## bukfever2

lunghit said:


> Do you guys have a way to estimate how much serving material is left on a spool and if you will have enough for your next serve? Lets say you have a 20" end serving to do and the spool is looking a little low. If you double it and strip 40" off would that be enough? Is there any other way to get a somewhat accurate estimate. I have had a few close calls but always made it but I'd hate to get close to the end just to run out and then have to unwind by hand.



I've had a few close calls, this one was 26.5" and I just made it!
Pretty hard to really tell and I usually just grab another server and save the short spools for smaller areas.


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## lunghit

bukfever2 said:


> I've had a few close calls, this one was 26.5" and I just made it!
> Pretty hard to really tell and I usually just grab another server and save the short spools for smaller areas.
> 
> View attachment 6420099


Don't get no closer than that. You must have been saying to yourself "C'mon just a little more don't run out" lol


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## bukfever2

lunghit said:


> Don't get no closer than that. You must have been saying to yourself "C'mon just a little more don't run out" lol


I walked over to the other building to get a cup of coffee and when I returned, this where it was set to stop lol!!
Just plain lucky.


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## NoviceAddicted

*Center Servings*

Does anyone know of a 4 and 8 braid spectra, dyneema, or spectra- dyneema blend fishing line in black, or translucent when under pressure, that comes in .021" diameter and good for compound string center servings? Thanks.


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## highwaynorth

servingspinner said:


> Limb bolts should not be lubed
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


It depends on whether the bolt is threaded into a blind hole or a through hole. It's ok on a through hole.


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## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> Does anyone know of a 4 and 8 braid spectra, dyneema, or spectra- dyneema blend fishing line in black, or translucent when under pressure, that comes in .021" diameter and good for compound string center servings? Thanks.


If you can find something in white that goes that large in diameter, you'll never get it clear. The larger the diameter, the harder it is to get the material to go clear and that big is definitely going to stay "milky" looking when served. 

Not sure about the .021" black braided line though. May be able to find some here but I'm not sure. https://www.ebay.com/i/222788796873?chn=ps


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## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> If you can find something in white that goes that large in diameter, you'll never get it clear. The larger the diameter, the harder it is to get the material to go clear and that big is definitely going to stay "milky" looking when served.
> 
> Not sure about the .021" black braided line though. May be able to find some here but I'm not sure. https://www.ebay.com/i/222788796873?chn=ps


Thanks Huntinsker! I guess anything much over .014" is going to do that, appreciate advice and link, that definitely looks like something to check out. I did talk and email a rep from Poseidon, excuse if spelled wrong, the college students who started or are involved with Kastking. He was supposed to send me samples of their materials but haven't received email back. I don't know maybe it didn't go through, will try another link or associated email address.


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## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> If you can find something in white that goes that large in diameter, you'll never get it clear. The larger the diameter, the harder it is to get the material to go clear and that big is definitely going to stay "milky" looking when served.
> 
> Not sure about the .021" black braided line though. May be able to find some here but I'm not sure. https://www.ebay.com/i/222788796873?chn=ps


I have seen the Hercules before and didn't pull the trigger on buying, it does look promising if quality is there for center and end servings. Have you ever used the Hercules Huntinsker, if so what do you think of it? Thanks!


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## TDHunter99

Why would one use fishing line over normal serving material? Just because it’s cheaper or does it offer any advantages? I don’t know much of anything when it comes to string building, so I’m just curious. 


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## C.D.T

tered said:


> question. when taking a bow completely apart what do you all use as a lubricant on the bolts in the limps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


I use Lithium grease on the bolts, rockers and pockets as advised by Dave Barnsdale. Bow has never been so quiet or easy to adjust after some rainy shoots


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## C.D.T

First set of string & cables I have ever made on the first ever Frakenbow I have ever made along with the stabilisers & weights that I made


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## lunghit

Nice job CDT! Looks great and good luck with that frankenbow. One of these days I'll mess around with and build a bow.


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## lunghit

Cost aside what do you feel the better end serving material would be BCY Powergrip or Angel Majesty? I am talking for those tough angle cam areas that have some good bends. Thanks


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## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> I have seen the Hercules before and didn't pull the trigger on buying, it does look promising if quality is there for center and end servings. Have you ever used the Hercules Huntinsker, if so what do you think of it? Thanks!


Never used it personally. Just googled "black braided fishing line" and sent you the link for some potential options. Only fishing line I've used for serving is for cable slide areas. I have Halo, Bullwhip, Powergrip and 3d for end servings. Not that I don't think the right fishing line would work, I just have a bunch of the other stuff to use up.


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## Huntinsker

TDHunter99 said:


> Why would one use fishing line over normal serving material? Just because it’s cheaper or does it offer any advantages? I don’t know much of anything when it comes to string building, so I’m just curious.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Biggest advantage is that it's much cheaper. It's also not all that different, if at all. Braided Spectra or Braided Dyneema fishing line is basically the same thing as braided Spectra or braided Dyneema serving thread. There's only so many ways to braid a material and I'd bet that the machines that make the fishing line, are very similar to the ones making the serving. 

Here's a link that talks a little about the different types of braids on fishing line. https://www.sportfishingmag.com/comparing-4-and-8-carrier-braided-fishing-lines


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## labonte.r

My new toys just showed up, now I have to try to learn how to use them :darkbeer:


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## automan26

It looks like you are ready to rock. You are going to love string building. I am anxious to see your first string.

Automan.


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## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> Never used it personally. Just googled "black braided fishing line" and sent you the link for some potential options. Only fishing line I've used for serving is for cable slide areas. I have Halo, Bullwhip, Powergrip and 3d for end servings. Not that I don't think the right fishing line would work, I just have a bunch of the other stuff to use up.


Thanks Huntinsker.


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## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> Biggest advantage is that it's much cheaper. It's also not all that different, if at all. Braided Spectra or Braided Dyneema fishing line is basically the same thing as braided Spectra or braided Dyneema serving thread. There's only so many ways to braid a material and I'd bet that the machines that make the fishing line, are very similar to the ones making the serving.
> 
> Here's a link that talks a little about the different types of braids on fishing line. https://www.sportfishingmag.com/comparing-4-and-8-carrier-braided-fishing-lines


Amen to that.


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## hdbagger23

Looking good 


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## C.D.T

Well I built my first set of string & cables using Brownell Rampage. Amazing material. I will need to make some adjustments to the Spreadsheet that Butch sent me as it comes up a little short. Seems to have less stretch than what others have reported with Fury. Just a heads up for those thinking of jumping onto the Rampage. 
I tried 2 differing ways of building with the same stretch results, so it seems to be very consistent & forgiving to work with


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## chasemukluk

labonte.r said:


> My new toys just showed up, now I have to try to learn how to use them
> 
> View attachment 6426041


Awesome! Have you built strings yet, or will you be building for the first time using these? 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## boilerfarmer12

labonte.r said:


> My new toys just showed up, now I have to try to learn how to use them :darkbeer:
> 
> View attachment 6426041


My Baker stuff showed up last week but I haven't used it to build with yet. I did use it to serve a string last night off my homemade jig and I liked that.


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## labonte.r

Never built before but been wanting to learn. I prolly went overboard on the purchase but o well lol.


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## boilerfarmer12

I finished serving my latest set last night. Used my baker set and string clamps. I think I served too tight. You can visibly see the twists on the cables are less than the string. Gonna try to shoot it and see how it goes. Still learning.


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## labonte.r

So looking for input on how you guys got your jigs setup. Also what are your opinions on mounting the unistrut on the wall vs a benchtop? Do you think it would make building harder? Seems like the baker jig I have everything will mount pretty solid and free up space in my mantown. My other idea was to build a super long workbench but only have it cpl feet wide by probably 16-20 ft just enough to mount the jig setup my ez press and a vise.


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## chasemukluk

labonte.r said:


> So looking for input on how you guys got your jigs setup. Also what are your opinions on mounting the unistrut on the wall vs a benchtop? Do you think it would make building harder? Seems like the baker jig I have everything will mount pretty solid and free up space in my mantown. My other idea was to build a super long workbench but only have it cpl feet wide by probably 16-20 ft just enough to mount the jig setup my ez press and a vise.


I have 2 hooks hanging from my rafters that hold the jig and unistrut. Keeps it out of the way. Since I am not building every day, or even every month, it works for me. When I need it, I pull it down and put it on a collapsible table to build. 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## labonte.r

Hi Chase that is an excellent idea and I’ll keep that in mind!


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## b0w_bender

I have mine bolted to my bench but I don't see why you couldn't have it mounted to the wall if you are doing tag ends.


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## Huntinsker

labonte.r said:


> So looking for input on how you guys got your jigs setup. Also what are your opinions on mounting the unistrut on the wall vs a benchtop? Do you think it would make building harder? Seems like the baker jig I have everything will mount pretty solid and free up space in my mantown. My other idea was to build a super long workbench but only have it cpl feet wide by probably 16-20 ft just enough to mount the jig setup my ez press and a vise.


I have mine still on 2 struts bolted back to back, that I can put on my Workmate collapsible work bench when I need to make a set. When I'm not using it, I can slide the jig along the baseboard and out of the way. Still works fine for me that way though I'm moving to a bigger place and will have a dedicated space soon.


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## nestly

labonte.r said:


> So looking for input on how you guys got your jigs setup. Also what are your opinions on mounting the unistrut on the wall vs a benchtop? Do you think it would make building harder? Seems like the baker jig I have everything will mount pretty solid and free up space in my mantown. My other idea was to build a super long workbench but only have it cpl feet wide by probably 16-20 ft just enough to mount the jig setup my ez press and a vise.


 I like being able to work from both sides, so my jig/stretcher is self contained/free-standing. All of my tools and string materials are also on a wheeled cart.


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## labonte.r

Another great idea nestly. How did you set jig up to be able to rotate?


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## nestly

labonte.r said:


> Another great idea nestly. How did you set jig up to be able to rotate?


Rotating part is just UniStrut angles brackets and plates available whereever the UniStrut is sold. The lock mechanism is just a 3-point hitch pin from Tractor Supply that's drilled for a couple of roll pins to limit it's travel and a spring to keep it engaged. Being able to rotate/lock the pin in the retraced position is a nice addition, but not really necessary because I usually just pull the pin back, rotate the strut, then release


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## Huntinsker

I've been imagining a similar setup as nestly but with a steel pipe and 3 struts welded around it to be able to have 3 sets pieces going at once.


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## krisfarm

*String Length Chart*

I will be building a new string set soon for my Hoyt Podium X Elite 40 that has 28 strands in all the strings. My current chart works out great for 22-24 strand strings, could someone give me a guide on how much extra length to add for the extra strands. I will have to use the smaller diameter serving .014" to achieve the same OD as on the current strings.Thanks.
Bob


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## nestly

I build all my Hoyt Strings 24 strands of BCY 452X, but cables are always 28 strands. I didn't ever work out the formula, but the 28strand cables do end up about 3/32" shorter than 24strands, so I just add that much to the posts.


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## automan26

The formula was only designed to get you in the ballpark. Adding or subtracting twists to get your desired length is figured into the final number.

Automan


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## krisfarm

Thanks nestly for that information, I all ways enjoy your posts. In the past I have added 1/16" to my 22 strand count length to make 24 strand 452x strings, as the cables on this bow are 28 strand I thought I would have to add around 3/16". I will give the 3/32" a try.
automan26. Thanks for that.I have made a quite few sets of strings and understand that the formula is only a guide, with all the collective wisdom that is now contained in this site I thought I could get a pretty good answer from someone who has run into this exact issue.
Bob


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## warrenc1

Question on split yoke building on a 4 post. Is the preferred method to build a half strand, double length then fold in half? Ive been building them for awhile on 2 posts but havent tried it yet on my 4 post set up and Im have a little trouble visualizing it. Finally made it through all of the posts that I could find in the thread and all Ive found is the fold method and nothing on youtube.


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## bowbrothersmdb

Huntinsker said:


> I've been imagining a similar setup as nestly but with a steel pipe and 3 struts welded around it to be able to have 3 sets pieces going at once.


I did that but there are issues. The steel tube bends on layup! And altering tension on one side can affect the opposite side. But it is nice to be able to produce a string set in one go!







Tube is 50 x 50 x 3mm







I used .75t eye nut for the first attempt. It works but took a long time to make!







The taper bearing allows hand tightening to 300lbs.







Magnets keep tools at hand!


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## PowerLineman83

labonte.r said:


> Never built before but been wanting to learn. I prolly went overboard on the purchase but o well lol.


You won’t be sorry. Butch builds awesome stuff. There is a fair amount of BAP green on my bench.

If he built a serving machine I’d replace my SS-600 for sure!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PowerLineman83

warrenc1 said:


> Question on split yoke building on a 4 post. Is the preferred method to build a half strand, double length then fold in half? Ive been building them for awhile on 2 posts but havent tried it yet on my 4 post set up and Im have a little trouble visualizing it. Finally made it through all of the posts that I could find in the thread and all Ive found is the fold method and nothing on youtube.


Shoot me a PM of you still need help with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jabr357

PowerLineman83 said:


> Shoot me a PM of you still need help with this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



PowerLineman83, could you please share the answer with the rest of us as well if you don't mind? Thanks bro.


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## hicktownbowman

Starting to look into and research string building. First of my many questions is the difference in jigs and why one over the other? 

Main definition between one like this 









And a regular baker 4 post like here 










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## Bownut400

hicktownbowman said:


> Starting to look into and research string building. First of my many questions is the difference in jigs and why one over the other?
> 
> Main definition between one like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a regular baker 4 post like here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Man that's a scary picture. LOL
Virtually there is no difference in the two jigs pictured, one is turned in line and the other is not rotated. In principle the same. I can't say from the base of the first one whether the bas stays the same when rotated but mine will stay locked down at the location. However I don't make these rotating jigs this way any more. Going along with your question, if it were me I like to have the base stay locked down incase I have two of the same length strings or cables to make, this way I will have two consistent lengths. The posts are tapered on my jigs to allow easier tag end serving if necessary by being able to get closer to the pin. The taper helps to serve closer to the pin. That said most use my spread sheet or one of there own to just measure the two closest pins. It just make building a hair quicker. I hope I didn't confuse you. If you have any questions feel free to call me 208-599-4061, keep in mind I am not a pro string builder but a jig builder. I just know how. Kinda LOL


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## hicktownbowman

Awesome! I may give you a jingle, I have a few general questions about how to use a jig to may different styles of strings, I appreciate it! 


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## warrenc1

Anybody have any tips for getting your end loops to stay flat and pretty when you serve up to them? Particularly, on my served end loops, when I run the cam serving up to the loop and over the ends of the served end loop Ill get some twisting under the cam serving and it comes out pretty ugly. I have started relieving tension at the end of the cam serving so I can get my loops closed and that has helped a little, looking for tips. Thanks!


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## labonte.r

So I started my first test string and I’ve read that serving around 8-10lbs my question is can I use my handheld scale to check this? Seems pretty tight pulling it out but I set my beiter so that scale reads around 8lbs to strip spool. I’ll try to get some pics up lil later don’t think it came out all that bad.


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## labonte.r

Here are a cpl pics I only made the string 2’ long as to not waste a ton of material and figured I could use this to tension my 4 post when I try served end loops. I’m using bcy x started with 22 strands and .014 halo for end serving, looks like they will be pretty close to my realm x diameters. Payed a small center serving as well with .021 powergrip but looks like it might be a little big my nocks are pretty tight so will try some .018.


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## labonte.r

So that’s white .014 halo should I serve tighter to get it to turn clear. I also noticed that I had to back off tension a bit once got to tag ends as the serving wanted to bury in the tag end a bit.


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## labonte.r

...


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## icemanls2

labonte.r said:


> So that’s white .014 halo should I serve tighter to get it to turn clear. I also noticed that I had to back off tension a bit once got to tag ends as the serving wanted to bury in the tag end a bit.


They also use this to make the white turn clear.


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## doulos

I have a question for you experienced builders out there. IS there any issue found with mixing BCYX and 452. NOT on the same string though. I want to build a string of BCYX on a bow with 452 cables. A friend has a damaged string on a pretty new set of strings and all I have is BCYX. I dont think there should be a issue. Anything Im not considering?


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## JF from VA

There should be no issue with building a string with X and cables of 452X. They are both no-creep materials and very similar. The only issue that arises is when you mix different materials in a string or cable.


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## servingspinner

doulos said:


> I have a question for you experienced builders out there. IS there any issue found with mixing BCYX and 452. NOT on the same string though. I want to build a string of BCYX on a bow with 452 cables. A friend has a damaged string on a pretty new set of strings and all I have is BCYX. I dont think there should be a issue. Anything Im not considering?


I build 8125G draw String and made cables with 452x( or X ) all the time. Improves speed, but you give up a little creep. 
I have also mixed trophy and 452x in the same bundle with no problem. They are the same except for a little Gore in the Trophy.

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## caspian

doulos said:


> I have a question for you experienced builders out there. IS there any issue found with mixing BCYX and 452. NOT on the same string though. I want to build a string of BCYX on a bow with 452 cables. A friend has a damaged string on a pretty new set of strings and all I have is BCYX. I dont think there should be a issue. Anything Im not considering?


just bear in mind that you will need to use different layup lengths for the two materials - I find X stretches quite a bit more before it stabilises than 452X does.


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## hicktownbowman

Anyone here have input on the pronghorn string jig? Good, bad, ugly? 


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## PowerLineman83

JF from VA said:


> There should be no issue with building a string with X and cables of 452X. They are both no-creep materials and very similar. The only issue that arises is when you mix different materials in a string or cable.


There is no issue mixing material from string to cables.

452x cables and Mercury or 8190/8190f string is just an example.

Just don’t mix them in the same string bundle.... there are exceptions to this as well. Some of them have already been mentioned.


I think this is what you were getting at... I think I misread your post the first time I read it.

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## Huntinsker

labonte.r said:


> So that’s white .014 halo should I serve tighter to get it to turn clear. I also noticed that I had to back off tension a bit once got to tag ends as the serving wanted to bury in the tag end a bit.


You likely won't ever get .014 halo to look very clear over a color combo like that. It takes bright colors and strong contrast. Brown and Black are a little dull and similarly colored so you'll always get that milky color to the clear serving. If you used something like Flo Orange and Black, you' can get it pretty clear. Even better looking if you use it with 2 bright colors.

A clarifier may help also. Black Magic Tire wet is like $10 for 64oz at Walmart and it works great. WAY cheaper than the BCY stuff too and I know a bunch of guys that have used it for years without issue.


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## boilerfarmer12

Having some trouble with some 452X. using the new gunmetal and flo green. They look great until i take the tension off after stretching. the very center of the string looks over twisted; the width of the color stripes is definitely smaller in the middle. I also get bumps in random spots down the string. I tried to look at them and they look like the strands inside are damaged. 
Differences in this set are: i started using a Baker jig, and this string material seems very low wax. The gunmetal never has any come off when burning the color bundles before twisting. 
I also tensioned them to ~300# before twisting to equalize strands. i then cranked it to around 100 when twisting them. 
I am at a loss. i have not had this much trouble with a set before. They come out within an 1/8" after twisting.


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## deerbum

I bought some clear 6mm heat shrink tubing on ebay. It's a substantially tougher material than the black stuff you'd find in the hardware store. The shrink ratio is 4:1, and measured a test piece at .080" after heating. This gives the option to paint or wrap with tape the nocks in the color of your choice, 5 meters for $7 delivered from China.









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## b0w_bender

Nice!


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Having some trouble with some 452X. using the new gunmetal and flo green. They look great until i take the tension off after stretching. the very center of the string looks over twisted; the width of the color stripes is definitely smaller in the middle. I also get bumps in random spots down the string. I tried to look at them and they look like the strands inside are damaged.
> Differences in this set are: i started using a Baker jig, and this string material seems very low wax. The gunmetal never has any come off when burning the color bundles before twisting.
> I also tensioned them to ~300# before twisting to equalize strands. i then cranked it to around 100 when twisting them.
> I am at a loss. i have not had this much trouble with a set before. They come out within an 1/8" after twisting.


Sounds like your bundle splitters are to wide causing more twists in the middle than at the ends or you're putting in too many twists before taking the splitters out. I use golf tees and do just over half my twists with them in. The bumps come from over burnishing/dewaxing. Might also be from tensioning too high before twisting. 

If that isn't it, you may try burning the ends of the material and make sure you actually have 2 spools of 452x. Not unheard of that BCY mislabels things.


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## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> Sounds like your bundle splitters are to wide causing more twists in the middle than at the ends or you're putting in too many twists before taking the splitters out. I use golf tees and do just over half my twists with them in. The bumps come from over burnishing/dewaxing. Might also be from tensioning too high before twisting.
> 
> If that isn't it, you may try burning the ends of the material and make sure you actually have 2 spools of 452x. Not unheard of that BCY mislabels things.


Thanks man. Ive had some other colors do it this weekend. I am using golf tees to split. But I have been adding all my twists before removing them but have been doing it that way since I started. Ill try to remove them sooner. 
What will the different materials do differently when burned?


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Thanks man. Ive had some other colors do it this weekend. I am using golf tees to split. But I have been adding all my twists before removing them but have been doing it that way since I started. Ill try to remove them sooner.
> What will the different materials do differently when burned?


Sorry I didn't really explain that. If you have 452x, you'll see that when burned, 2/3 of the material will burn quickly leaving 1/3 of the material longer. The slower to burn strands are Vectran and the quicker is the Dyneema. If they all burn uniformly, it's not a blended material and is all Dyneema. Different materials react differently on the jig so that could cause the bumps and strange things you've experienced.


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## boilerfarmer12

Here is a close up of the main bump in my shooting string I made this weekend. This one ended up being about 17" from one end.


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## automan26

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Here is a close up of the main bump in my shooting string I made this weekend. This one ended up being about 17" from one end.
> View attachment 6457137


Many of us, including myself have had to deal with "the bumps" at one time or another. The bumps are caused by a contraction/relaxation issue associated with the wax covering each strand, binding the strands together so tightly that they have lost the ability to relax individually when the tension on the string is reduced. If you use too much tension on the burnishing or wax stripping thread, that excessive tension will weld the strands together so tightly that several of them will bond together and almost become one strand within the bundle. I have found that the bumps happen when the string is burnished under too much tension. Under high tension the strands are forced together very tightly and this pressure can lock them together and the wax will act like a glue.

I have found that, especially when using Fury, if the string is finished and burnished well, if I need to add a twist or two to shorten the string to spec, I can almost expect a bump or two to show up on a string that was previously perfect.

Bottom Line....The bumps are caused by using too much string tension when de-waxing or burnishing.

Automan


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## boilerfarmer12

automan26 said:


> Many of us, including myself have had to deal with "the bumps" at one time or another. The bumps are caused by a contraction/relaxation issue associated with the wax covering each strand, binding the strands together so tightly that they have lost the ability to relax individually when the tension on the string is reduced. If you use too much tension on the burnishing or wax stripping thread, that excessive tension will weld the strands together so tightly that several of them will bond together and almost become one strand within the bundle. I have found that the bumps happen when the string is burnished under too much tension. Under high tension the strands are forced together very tightly and this pressure can lock them together and the wax will act like a glue.
> 
> I have found that, especially when using Fury, if the string is finished and burnished well, if I need to add a twist or two to shorten the string to spec, I can almost expect a bump or two to show up on a string that was previously perfect.
> 
> Bottom Line....The bumps are caused by using too much string tension when de-waxing or burnishing.
> 
> Automan


Thanks for the info. I am not sure where the extra tension would be coming from. I had not changed my layup procedures since I started. I did start using a baker jig. I have started pulling my tag ends pretty tight. Are you talking about the spring tension or the piece of serving used to burnish is under too much tension when I strip the wax?

two nights when I did two short cables (15.75") I tensioned to 200# when I burnished the 4 color bundles. but they did not show any bumps. 

I built a new string last night with the gunmetal again and it shows A LOT of bumps. I looked in the center of one again and it looks like the fiber is damaged and making a sharp bend in the center. like you said though it looks like 2 fibers are showing the same thing.

I'm getting really frustrated. I don't know why this is happening to these strings. I haven't changed anything but the jig being used.


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## 138104

Are there still bumps when installed?


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## skullerud

I've never had bumps in my string, but then I dont do much burnishing either.


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## boilerfarmer12

Perry24 said:


> Are there still bumps when installed?


No but the strings definitely don't look as good in those areas.


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## boilerfarmer12

skullerud said:


> I've never had bumps in my string, but then I dont do much burnishing either.


this last set, I burnished the 4 color bundles (once down each bundle), twisted them 10 times then burnished the 2 colors together (once down each color), then burnished the entire bundle after tensioning to 350ish pounds (twice down the string).


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## servingspinner

I had a problem years ago, where I got a spool that had the wrong label. Drive me mad trying to figure out why the strings came out Ropey feeling. It was caused by the strands not stretching at the same rate.

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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Many of us, including myself have had to deal with "the bumps" at one time or another. The bumps are caused by a contraction/relaxation issue associated with the wax covering each strand, binding the strands together so tightly that they have lost the ability to relax individually when the tension on the string is reduced. If you use too much tension on the burnishing or wax stripping thread, that excessive tension will weld the strands together so tightly that several of them will bond together and almost become one strand within the bundle. I have found that the bumps happen when the string is burnished under too much tension. Under high tension the strands are forced together very tightly and this pressure can lock them together and the wax will act like a glue.
> 
> I have found that, especially when using Fury, if the string is finished and burnished well, if I need to add a twist or two to shorten the string to spec, I can almost expect a bump or two to show up on a string that was previously perfect.
> 
> Bottom Line....The bumps are caused by using too much string tension when de-waxing or burnishing.
> 
> Automan


Great info here and also my experience with them. One thing I do now to not only prevent "the bumps" but also to get a more uniform, round bundle, is to separate the strands in each color bundle after dewaxing. Basically, I'll dewax to get rid of the excess, pull the strands apart so they aren't stuck together in a single bundle and then twist with golf tees in. This keeps the strands free to move individually and instead of having 2 lobes in the bundle, the string is nicely rounded. To burnish, I only ever do one pass up and one down with .021" or .025" 62xs.


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## s.ga.bowhunter

I am getting all the parts to build my jig, I hope to have everything together next week. I have ordered 452x for my string. I would like some recommendations on the bows I have for center serving, how many strands 22 or 24 and end serving if using Halo would I use the .014 size. My bows are Mathews Z7 Magnum (I did count the strands there were 22} and Chill R {counted 24]. They are 60 pound bows and I am using GTO nocks. I would like to get my servings on order, thanks for the help


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## automan26

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Thanks for the info. I am not sure where the extra tension would be coming from. I had not changed my layup procedures since I started. I did start using a baker jig. I have started pulling my tag ends pretty tight. Are you talking about the spring tension or the piece of serving used to burnish is under too much tension when I strip the wax?
> 
> two nights when I did two short cables (15.75") I tensioned to 200# when I burnished the 4 color bundles. but they did not show any bumps.
> 
> I built a new string last night with the gunmetal again and it shows A LOT of bumps. I looked in the center of one again and it looks like the fiber is damaged and making a sharp bend in the center. like you said though it looks like 2 fibers are showing the same thing.
> 
> I'm getting really frustrated. I don't know why this is happening to these strings. I haven't changed anything but the jig being used.


It is not impossible that you have a bad spool of string material if it is happening to one color only. A friend of mine had a bad spool once and after building the string and relaxing the tension it developed hundreds of warts like an old toad.

I have found in my case that if I add twists under high spring tension I will get the bumps. High tension forces the strands together tightly enough for the wax to glue them together.

When you strip the wax do it gently under low spring tension. When you burnish it helps to use a thick piece of cotton string. The thickness of the cotton string will reduce the load pressure on the string you are burnishing, yet provide good surface area to make everything nice and smooth.

My recommendations at this point would be....1. Be suspect of that gray material. 2. Go gently when stripping wax. 3. Don't twist under high spring tension. 4. Use something thicker when burnishing. 5. Don't over-burnish...use a few gentle passes using long strokes in one direction only. Also burnish at 200# then crank it back to 300# in and attempt to break free any bonded strands.

Let us know how things are working out.

Automan


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## automan26

I forgot to mention that the bumps are only cosmetic and have no adverse effect on string performance. If you build a string for someone else and it has a bump or two and you install it on the bow yourself, no one but you will know about the bumps. You have probably noticed that the bumps disappear the moment you apply even the slightest tension on the string. After the string has been shot a bit, the bumps will disappear altogether, even when the string is removed from the bow.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

s.ga.bowhunter said:


> I am getting all the parts to build my jig, I hope to have everything together next week. I have ordered 452x for my string. I would like some recommendations on the bows I have for center serving, how many strands 22 or 24 and end serving if using Halo would I use the .014 size. My bows are Mathews Z7 Magnum (I did count the strands there were 22} and Chill R {counted 24]. They are 60 pound bows and I am using GTO nocks. I would like to get my servings on order, thanks for the help


.014" halo would work well for end serving. When I shot GTO nocks, I served my 22 strands of 452x with .018" Powergrip and the fit was perfect. If I were you, I'd use 22 strands on the string and 24 on the cables. Another tip for you would be to tune your bows the way you want with the current strings and then measure them to see what length they are and build to those specifications. Mathews' advertised specs, especially the single cam bows, are terrible and you can't really build to them and get the bow in spec. The newer dual cam bows are better but still not great. It's best to build from your custom specs than go by any advertised specs that Mathews puts out.


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## boilerfarmer12

Followed your guys' advice on a buss cable tonight. 

The guy who taught me always told me that the waxing being worked out from between the strands is what causes strings to stretch. This is why he taught me to burnish the heck out of them. Is this accurate or not?


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## automan26

Over burnishing is not a good thing and I have found it to lead to problems. I use a piece of that heavy, green bow fishing line, pull it snug on the string, then make about three passes going the full length of the string in one single direction. Burnishing should not be used to remove wax or squeeze it out from under the strands. I will bet that if you burnish just tightly enough to smooth out the string and no more, your bumps will go bye bye. If you de-wax the string before twisting, burnishing will not accomplish anything more. In fact, heavy burnishing, if it does any thing at all with the wax, will only remove wax from the outer surface of the string which has absolutely no effect on string stretch.

With everything, go firm, but gentle and you should have good results.

Automan


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## boilerfarmer12

automan26 said:


> Over burnishing is not a good thing and I have found it to lead to problems. I use a piece of that heavy, green bow fishing line, pull it snug on the string, then make about three passes going the full length of the string in one single direction. Burnishing should not be used to remove wax or squeeze it out from under the strands. I will bet that if you burnish just tightly enough to smooth out the string and no more, your bumps will go bye bye. If you de-wax the string before twisting, burnishing will not accomplish anything more. In fact, heavy burnishing, if it does any thing at all with the wax, will only remove wax from the outer surface of the string which has absolutely no effect on string stretch.
> 
> With everything, go firm, but gentle and you should have good results.
> 
> Automan


thanks automan. the buss cable tonight came out with only one bump i believe. i am leaning towards this gunmetal being bad material. there is almost 0 wax on it. the fiber is almost perfect circular.

i have had issues with other colors. it is curious that i dont remember having any bumps prior to using the baker jig


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## hicktownbowman

What size serving is used for served ends on a split buss cable? 


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## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> What size serving is used for served ends on a split buss cable?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


.014" is what most will use for everything but the loop serving. If you're wondering on loop serving, .007 is pretty common.


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## nestly

automan26 said:


> Many of us, including myself have had to deal with "the bumps" at one time or another. The bumps are caused by a contraction/relaxation issue associated with the wax covering each strand, binding the strands together so tightly that they have lost the ability to relax individually when the tension on the string is reduced. If you use too much tension on the burnishing or wax stripping thread, that excessive tension will weld the strands together so tightly that several of them will bond together and almost become one strand within the bundle. I have found that the bumps happen when the string is burnished under too much tension. Under high tension the strands are forced together very tightly and this pressure can lock them together and the wax will act like a glue.
> 
> I have found that, especially when using Fury, if the string is finished and burnished well, if I need to add a twist or two to shorten the string to spec, I can almost expect a bump or two to show up on a string that was previously perfect.
> 
> Bottom Line....The bumps are caused by using too much string tension when de-waxing or burnishing.
> 
> 
> 
> Automan


This is a plausible explanation, but isn't the underlying problem still inconsistent strand tension. If all the strands have the same tension, then they will all "relax" at the same rate.. ie no bumps. IMO, over burnishing only reveals the problem of inconsistent strand tensions, it does not cause it.


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## servingspinner

nestly said:


> This is a plausible explanation, but isn't the underlying problem still inconsistent strand tension. If all the strands have the same tension, then they will all "relax" at the same rate.. ie no bumps. IMO, over burnishing only reveals the problem of inconsistent strand tensions, it does not cause it.


That's what I was eluding to earlier

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## lunghit

When making pinstripe strings I sometimes have trouble getting the pin to show and it stays buried in the string. Even chasing it with a piece of scrap material does not always work. Do you guys still twist 10 times and remove the tees (or whatever you use to separate strands) and finish twisting?


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> When making pinstripe strings I sometimes have trouble getting the pin to show and it stays buried in the string. Even chasing it with a piece of scrap material does not always work. Do you guys still twist 10 times and remove the tees (or whatever you use to separate strands) and finish twisting?


I twist more than half the twists before pulling my golf tees out. Typically by that point, the bundle has come together enough that the pins won't get buried.


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> I twist more than half the twists before pulling my golf tees out. Typically by that point, the bundle has come together enough that the pins won't get buried.


Ok I'll give that a try next time. Also another question. Do you place your tee's as close to the end loops as possible or keep them away a few inches? I go as close to the loop as I can and I wonder if moving them a littler towards center might help too. Thanks


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## caspian

I run mine about 1-1/2" out from the posts. any closer results in the pin strands being stretched more than I would like from the main bundles.


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Ok I'll give that a try next time. Also another question. Do you place your tee's as close to the end loops as possible or keep them away a few inches? I go as close to the loop as I can and I wonder if moving them a littler towards center might help too. Thanks





caspian said:


> I run mine about 1-1/2" out from the posts. any closer results in the pin strands being stretched more than I would like from the main bundles.


I do the same as caspian.


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## Huntinsker

Little story time with a lesson mixed in. I haven't made a string in a couple months. Between work and work, more work, family obligations, hunting (not enough though), packing, moving, unpacking, fixing this and that at the new place, car maintenance and sometimes sleeping, I've not had time to make strings. This last week I was asked by a good friend of mine to make a set for his kids's first "adult bow". Naturally I said yes and made his set even though I still don't have my archery stuff setup. I was running around to find this and that when I needed it instead of having it all right there like I used to. Anyway, long story short, I laid out the buss cable and stretched it, then laid out the string and stretched it. It's a 93" long single cam string and it was about 10:00pm by the time I got it on the stretcher so I left it over night. 

Next morning I took it off the stretcher and went to work. I came back that night and served the cable and the string. When taking the string off the jig, I noticed a ton of rotation, 3/4 of a revolution. Of course I was crabby about it since I've never really had problems with rotation. I was about to trash it but decided to let it rest overnight and see how it was in the morning. This morning I put it back on the jig for the final measurement, which was spot on, but the first time up to 100lbs, it rotated. I was a bit mad at myself and annoyed that I'd let so much time go by without building so that I'd lost my "touch". I decided to run the jig up and down in tension a few times to see what would happen. Each time I took it from 0 to 100lbs or so the rotation got less and less. I put it at 100lbs and plucked it like a guitar string several times and by the time I was done, there was no more rotation.......none. 

Moral of the story........ Don't automatically reject a string that has rotation initially. In this case, it was the huge amount of serving on a long string that was causing the rotation and with minimal effort, it was corrected. If you don't see rotation until after the string is served, chances are it's the serving and not the bundle tension. If that's the case, it can be fixed, either by re-serving or if you're lucky, just working it a bit until the served sections equalize with the rest of the string.

Hope everyone's still having fun building!


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## Homebrew454

I will be making strings for a bowtech rpm 360 using bcy x material. I'm thinking 24 strands for cables and strings with .014 Halo for end serving. I never made strings for this bow before and it has a very narrow track in the cams. Just wondering if the 24 strands will be the correct size or if I should go smaller and perhaps down to 22 strands for the cables. 

This will be only my second set of strings & cables for this bow. I had some old 8125 that I wanted to test it first and I am in the process of making them now. I also wanted to see how the strings differ in speed, rotation, and stretch/creep.

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## Huntinsker

Homebrew454 said:


> I will be making strings for a bowtech rpm 360 using bcy x material. I'm thinking 24 strands for cables and strings with .014 Halo for end serving. I never made strings for this bow before and it has a very narrow track in the cams. Just wondering if the 24 strands will be the correct size or if I should go smaller and perhaps down to 22 strands for the cables.
> 
> This will be only my second set of strings & cables for this bow. I had some old 8125 that I wanted to test it first and I am in the process of making them now. I also wanted to see how the strings differ in speed, rotation, and stretch/creep.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


If you're using a bright color, I'd go with 22 strands of X. If you're doing a non-flo color, you could probably do 24 without issue.


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## nestly

Homebrew454 said:


> .....Just wondering if the 24 strands will be the correct size or if I should go smaller and perhaps down to 22 strands for the cables.


Split yoke cables have to be in multiples of 4 in order to have the same number of strands in both yokes. The Bowtech (cables) I've built have been 28 strands of 452X with BCY 2X serving, which finishes a few thousands under .014 Halo, so 24 strands should not be a problem IMO, especially with 2X serving.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Split yoke cables have to be in multiples of 4 in order to have the same number of strands in both yokes. The Bowtech (cables) I've built have been 28 strands of 452X with BCY 2X serving, which finishes a few thousands under .014 Halo, so 24 strands should not be a problem IMO, especially with 2X serving.


That's a good point. I didn't think about them being split yoke cables.


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## Homebrew454

Thanks for the help. 

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## mattafliving

Homebrew454 said:


> I will be making strings for a bowtech rpm 360 using bcy x material. I'm thinking 24 strands for cables and strings with .014 Halo for end serving. I never made strings for this bow before and it has a very narrow track in the cams. Just wondering if the 24 strands will be the correct size or if I should go smaller and perhaps down to 22 strands for the cables.
> 
> This will be only my second set of strings & cables for this bow. I had some old 8125 that I wanted to test it first and I am in the process of making them now. I also wanted to see how the strings differ in speed, rotation, and stretch/creep.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


For the cam side of your cables I would recommend using powergrip. This will prevent the serving separation from the aggressive angle on the overdrive cams. 24 strands should still work even with the larger size serving. 


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## Homebrew454

mattafliving said:


> For the cam side of your cables I would recommend using powergrip. This will prevent the serving separation from the aggressive angle on the overdrive cams. 24 strands should still work even with the larger size serving.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Per bcy's website the powergrip comes in .009, .014, and higher sizes. I have not checked what sizes are available for sale though.

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## mattafliving

I use .014 on the cams, the thing about powergrip is it doesn’t compress like halo. It’s great stuff. Mainly use it on center servings. 


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## frog gigger

nestly said:


> Split yoke cables have to be in multiples of 4 in order to have the same number of strands in both yokes. The Bowtech (cables) I've built have been 28 strands of 452X with BCY 2X serving, which finishes a few thousands under .014 Halo, so 24 strands should not be a problem IMO, especially with 2X serving.


Depends on the build method.
I use the fold method to achieve multiples of 2 for cables. 
Normally 30 strands of Fury for me on the Bowtechs.


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## nestly

frog gigger said:


> Depends on the build method.
> I use the fold method to achieve multiples of 2 for cables.
> Normally 30 strands of Fury for me on the Bowtechs.


How do you build a 15 strand string, which when folded in half would produce a 30 strand split buss? 
15 strands on each yoke leg means there's 7-1/2 strands wrapping over each axle. As far as I know theres no such thing as a "half strand" so the only other way to get to 15 strands on each yoke leg is 8 on one side and 7 on the other?

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## frog gigger

30 strands, 15 each to the splits. 
I consider that a multiple of 2. 

I may be wrong, but I read your post as to say that you couldn't build a 22 strand buss with equal strands at the split. 11x2=22

That's doubling the length of the buss, build half the total strand count. 
In this case, 11 strands, being 5 strands up one side, 6 strands down the other.

Serve the end loops as if it were a string, serve the center as it were to be a loop, fold in half, now each end loop forms the Y, the center becomes the bottom loop. 
Now you have a 22 strand cable with 11 strands on each split.


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## servingspinner

frog gigger said:


> 30 strands, 15 each to the splits.
> I consider that a multiple of 2.
> 
> I may be wrong, but I read your post as to say that you couldn't build a 22 strand buss with equal strands at the split. 11x2=22
> 
> That's doubling the length of the buss, build half the total strand count.
> In this case, 11 strands, being 5 strands up one side, 6 strands down the other.
> 
> Serve the end loops as if it were a string, serve the center as it were to be a loop, fold in half, now each end loop forms the Y, the center becomes the bottom loop.
> Now you have a 22 strand cable with 11 strands on each split.


This makes no sense whatsoever. Building split cables you have to use a multiple of 4 strands to be equal and not to mention safe.

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## nestly

frog gigger said:


> 30 strands, 15 each to the splits.
> I consider that a multiple of 2.
> 
> I may be wrong, but I read your post as to say that you couldn't build a 22 strand buss with equal strands at the split. 11x2=22
> 
> That's doubling the length of the buss, build half the total strand count.
> In this case, 11 strands, being 5 strands up one side, 6 strands down the other.
> 
> Serve the end loops as if it were a string, serve the center as it were to be a loop, fold in half, now each end loop forms the Y, the center becomes the bottom loop.
> Now you have a 22 strand cable with 11 strands on each split.


If you close the tag ends at the SAME END, you cannot spit a 22 strand string into 11 and 11, you can only split it 12 and 10.
If you close the tag ends at OPPOSITE ends, it's possible to build and 11 strand string and fold it in half to make a 22 strand string with 11 on each side, but there will be 6 on one side and 5 on the others so you may as well round down to the next lower multiple of 4 because the yoke leg is only as strong as the side with the lower strand count and that "6th" strand is nothing but filler.

Below is an illustration I made 3 years ago that shows the imbalance caused when building split yokes that are not built in multiples of 4, not to mention the fact that the loops aren't really "closed" because they end at opposite ends of the string/cable


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## frog gigger

Take the tag end to the bottom of the yoke, you have 7 and 7.
Works for me, nothing unsafe about it.


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## raleigh8605

I'm not sure about other bowtechs, but my reign came with 22 strand cables and 20 strand strings of 452x from the factory. 12 strand yoke leg on one side and 10 on the other. I tried to go 24 strands on the cables but ran into contact issues from the slightly larger diameter of the cable just under the roller guard because the cables run so close together. It wasnt a huge issue, the cables just barely touched each other as you drew or let down. I ended up going back to 22 strand cables just because of my ocd and everything was ok again. Just a little food for thought. Make what you want and adjust if you need to. That's half the fun of string building.


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## raleigh8605

raleigh8605 said:


> I'm not sure about other bowtechs, but my reign came with 22 strand cables and 20 strand strings of 452x from the factory. 12 strand yoke leg on one side and 10 on the other. I tried to go 24 strands on the cables but ran into contact issues from the slightly larger diameter of the cable just under the roller guard because the cables run so close together. It wasnt a huge issue, the cables just barely touched each other as you drew or let down. I ended up going back to 22 strand cables just because of my ocd and everything was ok again. Just a little food for thought. Make what you want and adjust if you need to. That's half the fun of string building.


Fyi I was using low wax 452x in silver/black spec.


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## Pbzeppelin4

Thank you so much. Very helpful


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## Homebrew454

I made it with 24 strands and like Raleigh the cables were just touching. I noticed the cables on it were 22 strands as well. Can you make 20 strand cables and strings? It is set at 60 lb draw if that matters. 

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## raleigh8605

Homebrew454 said:


> I made it with 24 strands and like Raleigh the cables were just touching. I noticed the cables on it were 22 strands as well. Can you make 20 strand cables and strings? It is set at 60 lb draw if that matters.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


Should be fine to use 20 strands. I built a set out of bcy x for a buddies older 60# Elite. He wanted Flo green so I had to go that small inorder for the cables to fit in the cam track and not chew up the cable serving. Strings have been on his bow for over a year and he hasn't had a problem.


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## Homebrew454

Thanks. Really enjoyed the build process. I'll make some 20 stands then.

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## TyT10

tagged


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## boilerfarmer12

Does anyone know if BCY 452X strand size has changed? I built some strings with some older gold string I got free twisted with some new black string. The black strands seem much smaller than the older gold. you can visibly see the 'waviness' between the twists. I understand some colors have more wax than others but I got some other older string from the same source and it all seems like the string is flatter, and wider.


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## frog gigger

^^^Bet that has some rotation.
I've got two spools of silver that you can't mix with any color.

The silver bundle always comes out as being a limp bundle after the stretch.


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## servingspinner

I posted on here before, years ago I got a spool of 452x that was miss labeled. It would not work with anything else. I sent it back to bcy. I never did figure out what it was.

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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Does anyone know if BCY 452X strand size has changed? I built some strings with some older gold string I got free twisted with some new black string. The black strands seem much smaller than the older gold. you can visibly see the 'waviness' between the twists. I understand some colors have more wax than others but I got some other older string from the same source and it all seems like the string is flatter, and wider.





servingspinner said:


> I posted on here before, years ago I got a spool of 452x that was miss labeled. It would not work with anything else. I sent it back to bcy. I never did figure out what it was.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


I have a spool of Tan 452x that's horrible like that. It's absolutely lousy with wax. I had rotation problems out the wazoo with it. The wax content made the fibers look larger too. What I've had to do with it is run it through a towel while laying it out to strip off the excess wax, then dewax smaller bundles of it and then make sure to burnish it well. Should have just sent it back to BCY but I had about 1/2 spool gone in messing with it trying to figure out what was wrong with it and I didn't feel right sending back such an empty spool. 

Best I can figure, the extra wax was causing all my problems because after all the extra steps I did to use it, the string was stable all of a sudden. Not worth using for anything else though unless someone wants an all tan string or I use it for a recurve or something.


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## servingspinner

Huntinsker said:


> I have a spool of Tan 452x that's horrible like that. It's absolutely lousy with wax. I had rotation problems out the wazoo with it. The wax content made the fibers look larger too. What I've had to do with it is run it through a towel while laying it out to strip off the excess wax, then dewax smaller bundles of it and then make sure to burnish it well. Should have just sent it back to BCY but I had about 1/2 spool gone in messing with it trying to figure out what was wrong with it and I didn't feel right sending back such an empty spool.
> 
> Best I can figure, the extra wax was causing all my problems because after all the extra steps I did to use it, the string was stable all of a sudden. Not worth using for anything else though unless someone wants an all tan string or I use it for a recurve or something.


I'm pretty sure mine was Dyna or 8125 marked wrong, because it would "Rope" really bad. And the other color would be pulled almost straight.

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## wspicer

As of now what is the preferred string material for compound bow and why


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## servingspinner

wspicer said:


> As of now what is the preferred string material for compound bow and why
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the loaded question for today!
The answer is, it depends on what you doing and what you building it for.


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## wspicer

servingspinner said:


> That's the loaded question for today!
> The answer is, it depends on what you doing and what you building it for.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


Examples 


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## servingspinner

wspicer said:


> Examples
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are a lot of great choices out there depending on what you want to do or how big is a bundle you need. Or you may decide you want to mix some of the materials like using 8125 with the some bcy X Cables to gain yourself a few feet if you're shooting 3DS

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## wspicer

servingspinner said:


> There are a lot of great choices out there depending on what you want to do or how big is a bundle you need. Or you may decide you want to mix some of the materials like using 8125 with the some bcy X Cables to gain yourself a few feet if you're shooting 3DS
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


Just starting making strings and trying to learn the ins and outs of it everything I know I learns form this great forum you guys do an amazing job of explaining this process so thank you for all your input 


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## warrenc1

wspicer said:


> Examples
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its hard to beat BCY X, high grade Dyneema and a minimal Vectran blend.

I also like 452X but have been doing a lot of BCY X. JMO


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## warrenc1

Does anybody use .017 Halo for end servings? or Angel Majesty .015?

Been thinking about giving these a try, going to .017 for a little more diameter and tensile strength. I figure the .015 Majesty will finish close to the .014 Halo I recently switched from 62XS .018 for my centers to Angel Majesty and have been really pleased. It finishes a little smaller but the durability has been incredible.


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## servingspinner

wspicer said:


> Just starting making strings and trying to learn the ins and outs of it everything I know I learns form this great forum you guys do an amazing job of explaining this process so thank you for all your input
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here's a good example of why 452x or trophy is a good choice because you can do a lot of the custom strings colors









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## servingspinner

8190


servingspinner said:


> Here's a good example of why 452x or trophy is a good choice because you can do a lot of the custom strings colors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


8190





M

My
.


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## PowerLineman83

warrenc1 said:


> Does anybody use .017 Halo for end servings? or Angel Majesty .015?
> 
> Been thinking about giving these a try, going to .017 for a little more diameter and tensile strength. I figure the .015 Majesty will finish close to the .014 Halo I recently switched from 62XS .018 for my centers to Angel Majesty and have been really pleased. It finishes a little smaller but the durability has been incredible.


What material and strand count were you using .018” 62XS on?

As for ends, I haven’t used anything bigger than .014” Halo. Majesty is great stuff in my opinion.


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## certwelder

What string material would you recommend to be used for hunting and practice?


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## warrenc1

PowerLineman83 said:


> What material and strand count were you using .018” 62XS on?
> 
> As for ends, I haven’t used anything bigger than .014” Halo. Majesty is great stuff in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most all have been 24 count BCY X. Ive found the .018 Majesty finishes at .104” - .106” and the XS is around the .109” ish range.


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## Huntinsker

To try and to put a bit of perspective on the material questions and debate......... Modern string materials are like Ford vs Chevy. Pick a good one and go with it. Everyone has their favorite but they all get the job done. Between the top 5 materials for compound bows, there really isn't a "best" material because they're all stable. Some are less fuzzy, non-blends, some have smaller strand diameter, 452x is bigger than X or Fury for example, some have speckled colors, the blended materials have speckles while the non-blends are solid colors. None of those attributes have anything to do with performance, maybe the fuzz one, but the rest are all about aesthetics. 

Aesthetically, small diameter, non-blended material, usually from Brownell because they have a smoother wax/dye, will look the best. They don't fuzz, they're super stable and they look good. 

Performance wise, there's really no noticeable difference in stability or really any other attributes. Speed difference is negligible, noise and vibration is negligible, creep and stability under normal conditions found on Earth are negligible. 

My advice is to find a material that you can afford and that you like to work with and then perfect your build process with that material. If they perform well for hunting, they'll perform well for target shooting and practice shooting and any other kind of shooting you may do and vice versa. You may hear that non-blends creep in heat. The melting point for Dyneema is somewhere around 150deg Celsius so unless you're shooting in conditions that reach 300deg F, you're not going to encounter creep due to heat. Even if you're with your bow in temps over 200deg, which you wouldn't be able to survive in for more than a minute or two, you won't see creep in your Dyneema. Most humans will die after 10 minuted in 140deg heat. According to the Guiness book, the highest Earth surface temperature ever recorded is 134deg F..... if you're wondering. 

We're spoiled with the materials that we have to work with because we have some awesome options. Pick from those options and be happy.


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## wspicer

Huntinsker said:


> To try and lay the string material debate/questions to rest a bit......... Modern string materials are like Ford vs Chevy. Pick a good one and go with it. Everyone has their favorite but they all get the job done. Between the top 5 materials for compound bows, there really isn't a "best" material because they're all stable. Some are less fuzzy, non-blends, some have smaller strand diameter, 452x is bigger than X or Fury for example, some have speckled colors, the blended materials have speckles while the non-blends are solid colors. None of those attributes have anything to do with performance, maybe the fuzz one, but the rest are all about aesthetics.
> 
> Aesthetically, small diameter, non-blended material, usually from Brownell because they have a smoother wax/dye, will look the best. They don't fuzz, they're super stable and they look good.
> 
> Performance wise, there's really no noticeable difference in stability or really any other attributes. Speed difference is negligible, noise and vibration is negligible, creep and stability under normal conditions found on Earth are negligible.
> 
> My advice is to find a material that you can afford and that you like to work with and then perfect your build process with that material. If they perform well for hunting, they'll perform well for target shooting and practice shooting and any other kind of shooting you may do and vice versa. You may hear that non-blends creep in heat. The melting point for Dyneema is somewhere around 150deg Celsius so unless you're shooting in conditions that reach 300deg F, you're not going to encounter creep due to heat. Even if you're with your bow in temps over 200deg, which you wouldn't be able to survive in for more than a minute or two, you won't see creep in your Dyneema. Most humans will die after 10 minuted in 140deg heat. According to the Guiness book, the highest Earth surface temperature ever recorded is 134deg F..... if you're wondering.
> 
> We're spoiled with the materials that we have to work with because we have some awesome options. Pick from those options and be happy.


Thank you my questions have been answered I’ve been using 452x with good results no peep twist or anything I just didn’t know if I was missing out on anything 


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## NoviceAddicted

I started out with BCY-X and plan on sticking with it.


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## PowerLineman83

NoviceAddicted said:


> I started out with BCY-X and plan on sticking with it.


If you like X you’ll really like X-99. It is the reformulation of X. Higher grade Dyneema resulting in an even better finished product.


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## Huntinsker

I'd also like to point out that the folks that love BCY X or Brownell Fury or any of the BCY 8190 materials, you better stock up because the SK90 Dyneema that is used to produce those materials is no longer being made by DSM, the company that produces that material. Because of this, all materials that use DSM SK90 Dyneema have been reformulated with SK99 Dyneema and the current options will disappear once the SK90 supply runs out. 

X has become X-99, Fury has become Rampage, 8190F has become Mercury. You get the idea.


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## PowerLineman83

warrenc1 said:


> Most all have been 24 count BCY X. Ive found the .018 Majesty finishes at .104” - .106” and the XS is around the .109” ish range.


Gotcha.

Generally I run 24 strands of 452x with .021” Majesty. I hit right around .110”-.112” which gives a nice fit for standard .120” nocks.

When I used 62XS, I ran .021” as well...

Again, I’m speaking in generalities to get a good fit for .120” nock throat. As you all know, it can vary a great deal depending on what nock you’re building for.


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> I'd also like to point out that the folks that love BCY X or Brownell Fury or any of the BCY 8190 materials, you better stock up because the SK90 Dyneema that is used to produce those materials is no longer being made by DSM, the company that produces that material. Because of this, all materials that use DSM SK90 Dyneema have been reformulated with SK99 Dyneema and the current options will disappear once the SK90 supply runs out.
> 
> X has become X-99, Fury has become Rampage, 8190F has become Mercury. You get the idea.


Exactly!

It can be a pain for those of us that stock all colors of the materials... bring bringing in a new material in all colors is a chunk of change... I’m glad I brought Mercury in as it’s here to stay for a while. I also offer 452x.


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## hicktownbowman

I’m going to assume that X and X-99 won’t mix 


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## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> I’m going to assume that X and X-99 won’t mix
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's best to assume that no materials will mix well. X and X-99 have different strand diameters and grade of Dyneema so It's best to consider them 2 completely different products.


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> It's best to assume that no materials will mix well. X and X-99 have different strand diameters and grade of Dyneema so It's best to consider them 2 completely different products.


Yep!

The only materials I’ve mixed with no trouble is Trophy and 452x.


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## hicktownbowman

Huntinsker said:


> It's best to assume that no materials will mix well. X and X-99 have different strand diameters and grade of Dyneema so It's best to consider them 2 completely different products.


That’s what I figured but thought I’d double check 


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## NoviceAddicted

*Clear servings*

Read an old post here, tried to book mark it and can't find. What spray or liquid that can be found anywhere, walmart, etc, is good for putting on string, then wiping down and serving clear (white) serving over to help keep from getting milky going over certain parts of cams? The post also mentioned mineral oil will work. Thanks for any help!


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## PowerLineman83

NoviceAddicted said:


> Read an old post here, tried to book mark it and can't find. What spray or liquid that can be found anywhere, walmart, etc, is good for putting on string, then wiping down and serving clear (white) serving over to help keep from getting milky going over certain parts of cams? The post also mentioned mineral oil will work. Thanks for any help!


Mineral oil will work. BCY sells a clarifier as well. It depends more on what serving is used, how tightly it’s applied and what colors you’re going over.


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## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> Read an old post here, tried to book mark it and can't find. What spray or liquid that can be found anywhere, walmart, etc, is good for putting on string, then wiping down and serving clear (white) serving over to help keep from getting milky going over certain parts of cams? The post also mentioned mineral oil will work. Thanks for any help!


Black Magic Tire Wet is what quite a few builders use. I've seen pictures of that compared to the new, much more expensive, BCY clarifyer and you can't tell the difference.


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## servingspinner

PowerLineman83 said:


> Yep!
> 
> The only materials I’ve mixed with no trouble is Trophy and 452x.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too

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## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> Black Magic Tire Wet is what quite a few builders use. I've seen pictures of that compared to the new, much more expensive, BCY clarifyer and you can't tell the difference.


Thanks Powerlineman. Thanks Huntinsker. It was your post I read Huntinsker, just couldn't find it again. Gonna run out and buy some, that way tougher to forget. lol


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## PowerLineman83

NoviceAddicted said:


> Thanks Powerlineman. Thanks Huntinsker. It was your post I read Huntinsker, just couldn't find it again. Gonna run out and buy some, that way tougher to forget. lol


You bet. 

I have some Black Magic in my shop too so it’s not like I haven’t used it.

Shoot a PM or post here if you have any other questions.


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## boilerfarmer12

Could use some help. Built two shooting strings for my new PSE Shootdown. Used the same specs as the one I made last month and both came out about 1/2" longer than it should be post-stretching and relaxing. I twisted them up last night, measured at 100# and they were about 1/8" over final length. Went ahead and twisted. Stretched to about 400# and over the course of an hour they lost about 100# of tension. Took 14 twists to get them to length (looked too twisted to use to me after these were added); that's about 1/3 of the calculated twists. I am confused; the last one I did came out nearly perfect with the same twists and pre-twist length used. The garage is a lot warmer than it was if that makes a difference. I was careful when I laid out the string and the tension looked great.


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Could use some help. Built two shooting strings for my new PSE Shootdown. Used the same specs as the one I made last month and both came out about 1/2" longer than it should be post-stretching and relaxing. I twisted them up last night, measured at 100# and they were about 1/8" over final length. Went ahead and twisted. Stretched to about 400# and over the course of an hour they lost about 100# of tension. Took 14 twists to get them to length (looked too twisted to use to me after these were added); that's about 1/3 of the calculated twists. I am confused; the last one I did came out nearly perfect with the same twists and pre-twist length used. The garage is a lot warmer than it was if that makes a difference. I was careful when I laid out the string and the tension looked great.


How are you finishing the loops? What material? That's an awful lot of movement and length difference. The temperature won't affect it that much. If it did, the string on your bow would be like a rubber band in different temps too. Sounds like maybe some slipping of the tag ends?


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> How are you finishing the loops? What material? That's an awful lot of movement and length difference. The temperature won't affect it that much. If it did, the string on your bow would be like a rubber band in different temps too. Sounds like maybe some slipping of the tag ends?


To be that far off I would suspect an issue with layup. More specifically measuring/formula issues.

Perhaps something simple was overlooked here?


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## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> How are you finishing the loops? What material? That's an awful lot of movement and length difference. The temperature won't affect it that much. If it did, the string on your bow would be like a rubber band in different temps too. Sounds like maybe some slipping of the tag ends?


I did tag ends, to finish I slipped the ends between the middle of the fibers. 452X sunset orange. I have never seen this much movement before. 
what do you mean slipping of the tag ends?


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I did tag ends, to finish I slipped the ends between the middle of the fibers. 452X sunset orange. I have never seen this much movement before.
> what do you mean slipping of the tag ends?


I was thinking that if you served the loops, that your tag ends may be pulling out from under the serving allowing the string to grow in length. With the serving over it, you may not be able to see it. Since you did tag ends, it's more likely that it was a layup problem like PowerLineman83 said.


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## boilerfarmer12

PowerLineman83 said:


> To be that far off I would suspect an issue with layup. More specifically measuring/formula issues.
> 
> Perhaps something simple was overlooked here?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wondered the same thing. I checked my math today, and it all checks out.


----------



## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> I was thinking that if you served the loops, that your tag ends may be pulling out from under the serving allowing the string to grow in length. With the serving over it, you may not be able to see it. Since you did tag ends, it's more likely that it was a layup problem like PowerLineman83 said.


I wondered the same thing, thought maybe I set the jig 1/2" in the wrong direction. but I didn't think I would do that twice. last night I made sure that I triple checked the post lengths. I paid careful attention to the tension when laying out; they looked good. Now I haven't been tensioning to 300# and then relaxing prior to tensioning. 

I have also added 20 twists, put a piece of serving in to split the colors (even though this was a single color string) and then removed the tees. I then finished adding the twists.


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> I was thinking that if you served the loops, that your tag ends may be pulling out from under the serving allowing the string to grow in length. With the serving over it, you may not be able to see it. Since you did tag ends, it's more likely that it was a layup problem like PowerLineman83 said.


If the tags were pulling I’d think he’d notice the strands being uneven... or I have before. That was years ago when I first tried serving loops and didn’t have my jig tension quite right. Obviously too tight causes other issues that wouldn’t pertain to this.

It takes a while to get all aspects of the process down to turn out a consistent quality product.

Things got better for me when I quit measuring my posts and put a stick on ruler on the strut my layup jig is mounted too.... food for thought.


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## boilerfarmer12

PowerLineman83 said:


> If the tags were pulling I’d think he’d notice the strands being uneven... or I have before. That was years ago when I first tried serving loops and didn’t have my jig tension quite right. Obviously too tight causes other issues that wouldn’t pertain to this.
> 
> It takes a while to get all aspects of the process down to turn out a consistent quality product.
> 
> Things got better for me when I quit measuring my posts and put a stick on ruler on the strut my layup jig is mounted too.... food for thought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the food. interesting idea. 

I have had a lot more problems since switching to the Baker jig. I have had bumps in my strings I never saw with the cheap-o. this is a new issue. my strings have been coming out almost dead on after twisting every time, maybe a 1/16" over. might have to add 3 twists after stretching.


----------



## PowerLineman83

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Thanks for the food. interesting idea.
> 
> I have had a lot more problems since switching to the Baker jig. I have had bumps in my strings I never saw with the cheap-o. this is a new issue. my strings have been coming out almost dead on after twisting every time, maybe a 1/16" over. might have to add 3 twists after stretching.


I personally don’t get too wrapped up in my strings being dead on after stretch.

Some guys have separate, slightly different formulas for cables and shooting strings.

I layup, twist and stretch one day and let rest over night. Re check and adjust accordingly before serving. Being a little short isn’t bad as your string will grow once you serve it. This is slight, but it does happen.


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## boilerfarmer12

PowerLineman83 said:


> I personally don’t get too wrapped up in my strings being dead on after stretch.
> 
> Some guys have separate, slightly different formulas for cables and shooting strings.
> 
> I layup, twist and stretch one day and let rest over night. Re check and adjust accordingly before serving. Being a little short isn’t bad as your string will grow once you serve it. This is slight, but it does happen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just don’t understand. I have not had my string come out that long before. I think 14 twists is too many to get the string to length.


----------



## PowerLineman83

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I just don’t understand. I have not had my string come out that long before. I think 14 twists is too many to get the string to length.


You mean 14 extra?

You’ve twisted and stretched then let it relax and you have to add 14 to get it to proper length?


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## boilerfarmer12

PowerLineman83 said:


> You mean 14 extra?
> 
> You’ve twisted and stretched then let it relax and you have to add 14 to get it to proper length?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. Like I said they are coming out 1/2” long after stretching and relaxing


----------



## PowerLineman83

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Yes. Like I said they are coming out 1/2” long after stretching and relaxing


Tweak your formula then... something is wrong.


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## boilerfarmer12

PowerLineman83 said:


> Tweak your formula then... something is wrong.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don’t know what would have changed. It’s the same formula I’ve been using.


----------



## PowerLineman83

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I don’t know what would have changed. It’s the same formula I’ve been using.


I’m not sure either. But that’s too many twists to have to add after the fact.

You may figure it out later.. for now, fix your formula and roll on.

At least that’s what I’d do. I hate redos for no money! 


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## boilerfarmer12

PowerLineman83 said:


> I’m not sure either. But that’s too many twists to have to add after the fact.
> 
> You may figure it out later.. for now, fix your formula and roll on.
> 
> At least that’s what I’d do. I hate redos for no money!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree. Ive gone through almost a whole 1/8# spool. 
So if theyre coming out almost 1/2" long that's a HUGE formula change. I changed it from .012 to .008 and it dropped initial layout length by 3/16"


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## NoviceAddicted

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I don’t know what would have changed. It’s the same formula I’ve been using.


Just my 2 cents for boilerfarmer12. I have found that it gets me very close to the money when I use uniform stretching times for strings, cables, use a formula that works with those methods. For standard lengths (i.e. when not long or short stringing, modifying etc) I'm using length x .012 x .75 + length x .995. The x .995 is the last part to accommodate High tension stretching, sometimes x .996. This site is like Archery university and when you feel like reading a lot, always pick something up scrolling through old postings here.


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## Bill Hoyt

I finished my first set on my diy jig and ended up with a little end serving separation, looking to make some tweaks for my next set.
A little info... 
Threads are for a Hoyt Defiant #3 cam. Materials are 24 strands bcy x with .018 power grip center serving and .014 3d end serving.
Bear paw serving tool, I stripped out more than enough serving for each run then rewound tightly in the center of spool for even tension. Jig tension was 6 lbs for end serving and 7 lbs for center, I confirmed this. 
All servings were wrapped with around 325 lbs of tension on jig.
I may have went over board on dewaxing and burnishing, kinda got a little aggressive.
Thoroughly enjoyed the process! Have a beiter x heavy and a nw spinner on order!
Overall extremely happy with string after over 100 arrows, zero peep rotation, timing and sync are still perfect after settling in with 4 shots!
Just want to eliminate the end serving separation!
Any suggestions???
Thanks!

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## servingspinner

Bill Hoyt said:


> I finished my first set on my diy jig and ended up with a little end serving separation, looking to make some tweaks for my next set.
> A little info...
> Threads are for a Hoyt Defiant #3 cam. Materials are 24 strands bcy x with .018 power grip center serving and .014 3d end serving.
> Bear paw serving tool, I stripped out more than enough serving for each run then rewound tightly in the center of spool for even tension. Jig tension was 6 lbs for end serving and 7 lbs for center, I confirmed this.
> All servings were wrapped with around 325 lbs of tension on jig.
> I may have went over board on dewaxing and burnishing, kinda got a little aggressive.
> Thoroughly enjoyed the process! Have a beiter x heavy and a nw spinner on order!
> Overall extremely happy with string after over 100 arrows, zero peep rotation, timing and sync are still perfect after settling in with 4 shots!
> Just want to eliminate the end serving separation!
> Any suggestions???
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


My question would be, can you see it from the road?
What I mean is, if it shoots good, why sweat the little stuff.
Loop serving now days, on modern wheels, only there to make it easy to assemble.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Bill Hoyt said:


> I finished my first set on my diy jig and ended up with a little end serving separation, looking to make some tweaks for my next set.
> A little info...
> Threads are for a Hoyt Defiant #3 cam. Materials are 24 strands bcy x with .018 power grip center serving and .014 3d end serving.
> Bear paw serving tool, I stripped out more than enough serving for each run then rewound tightly in the center of spool for even tension. Jig tension was 6 lbs for end serving and 7 lbs for center, I confirmed this.
> All servings were wrapped with around 325 lbs of tension on jig.
> I may have went over board on dewaxing and burnishing, kinda got a little aggressive.
> Thoroughly enjoyed the process! Have a beiter x heavy and a nw spinner on order!
> Overall extremely happy with string after over 100 arrows, zero peep rotation, timing and sync are still perfect after settling in with 4 shots!
> Just want to eliminate the end serving separation!
> Any suggestions???
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Where is the serving separation? I'd expect serving separation when using 3d on a buss cable or even maybe the long end of the control cable. If it's on the cables, try a different serving material. Halo, Bullwhip, Majesty, .014 Powergrip would all be better options for cable ends. 3d is good for string ends but because it's not braided, it's not as durable and can flatten and be separated easily over sharp bends at high pressure points.


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## Bill Hoyt

I served the end loops with tag ends and those turned out perfect, the separation is only on the tight radius bends on the cams.
It's not actually shifted or anything just want everything to look nice for when I make strings for friends that's all...I have bought strings from 60x and catfish that had zero separation and figured I should be able to do the same with practice!

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## Bill Hoyt

I should have mentioned I have some clear Halo on order to try on my next set, does anyone think I should adjust serving tension?

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## PowerLineman83

Bill Hoyt said:


> I served the end loops with tag ends and those turned out perfect, the separation is only on the tight radius bends on the cams.
> It's not actually shifted or anything just want everything to look nice for when I make strings for friends that's all...I have bought strings from 60x and catfish that had zero separation and figured I should be able to do the same with practice!
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Try more jig tension. Guys with a serving machine can get away with more tension than by hand, but my guess would be that you need to serve tighter.


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## Bill Hoyt

Huntinsker said:


> Where is the serving separation? I'd expect serving separation when using 3d on a buss cable or even maybe the long end of the control cable. If it's on the cables, try a different serving material. Halo, Bullwhip, Majesty, .014 Powergrip would all be better options for cable ends. 3d is good for string ends but because it's not braided, it's not as durable and can flatten and be separated easily over sharp bends at high pressure points.


Only on the tight bends of the cam on the buss and control. Will try clear Halo on next go round. Thanks for the awesome thread by the way!!!

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## PowerLineman83

Bill Hoyt said:


> Only on the tight bends of the cam on the buss and control. Will try clear Halo on next go round. Thanks for the awesome thread by the way!!!
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


If you used 3D on cables, that is likely your problem.

As others have said, 3D is not suited for cables.


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## Bill Hoyt

Thanks for the input! I guess I should have asked first before I built, good practice tho!


PowerLineman83 said:


> If you used 3D on cables, that is likely your problem.
> 
> As others have said, 3D is not suited for cables.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## PowerLineman83

Bill Hoyt said:


> Thanks for the input! I guess I should have asked first before I built, good practice tho!
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


Good thing is all you’ll have to do is remove them and reserve them once they need it. Reinstall and you should be a lot happier.


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## boilerfarmer12

NoviceAddicted said:


> Just my 2 cents for boilerfarmer12. I have found that it gets me very close to the money when I use uniform stretching times for strings, cables, use a formula that works with those methods. For standard lengths (i.e. when not long or short stringing, modifying etc) I'm using length x .012 x .75 + length x .995. The x .995 is the last part to accommodate High tension stretching, sometimes x .996. This site is like Archery university and when you feel like reading a lot, always pick something up scrolling through old postings here.


I will try the equation modification tonight. 

When do you take your golf tees out? Twist all the way, half the twists, twenty twists?


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## Huntinsker

I take my tees out after a little more than half the twists.


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## PowerLineman83

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I will try the equation modification tonight.
> 
> When do you take your golf tees out? Twist all the way, half the twists, twenty twists?


I twist fully with tees in, especially on pinstripe strings.


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## warrenc1

PowerLineman83 said:


> I twist fully with tees in, especially on pinstripe strings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I put about 70% of my twists in with the tees then remove. One thing I started doing was running a piece of material in between the 2 strand bundles and after twisting, before running up to 350# for stretching, Ill set the jig to 100# and run that material up and down the length of the string once to even out the twists.


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## boilerfarmer12

PowerLineman83 said:


> I twist fully with tees in, especially on pinstripe strings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you ever see the center of the string look over-twisted? I have done it leaving tees in for all the twists and looked fine. I have also seen them look overtwisted in the center. I have tried taking them out after 20 twists (on a long string, strings with less than 20 twists look fine) and they look better. My biggest adversary are the bumps I occasionally get (but more frequent than id like to admit).


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## boilerfarmer12

warrenc1 said:


> I put about 70% of my twists in with the tees then remove. One thing I started doing was running a piece of material in between the 2 strand bundles and after twisting, before running up to 350# for stretching, Ill set the jig to 100# and run that material up and down the length of the string once to even out the twists.


Do you just a single piece through or do you wrap it around a side and run it through?


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## warrenc1

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Do you just a single piece through or do you wrap it around a side and run it through?


The piece will be through the dead center of the string. So when you have the tees in it will go in between the top 2 bundles and bottom 2 bundles (if its a two color string it separates the 2 colors). The material will also act as my marker later for putting in peeps, etc. Hope that makes sense. If you have a pin color its also a way to get the pin out to the center of the bundle after you've twisted up.


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## boilerfarmer12

warrenc1 said:


> The piece will be through the dead center of the string. So when you have the tees in it will go in between the top 2 bundles and bottom 2 bundles (if its a two color string it separates the 2 colors). The material will also act as my marker later for putting in peeps, etc. Hope that makes sense. If you have a pin color its also a way to get the pin out to the center of the bundle after you've twisted up.


So you leave it in the string? How do u burnish with it in there?


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## warrenc1

boilerfarmer12 said:


> So you leave it in the string? How do u burnish with it in there?


I just run it up as far towards one end as I can get it then burnish. If you have served end loops you can basically run the piece of material all the way to a post because there are no tag ends that are tying the bundles together.


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## PowerLineman83

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Do you ever see the center of the string look over-twisted? I have done it leaving tees in for all the twists and looked fine. I have also seen them look overtwisted in the center. I have tried taking them out after 20 twists (on a long string, strings with less than 20 twists look fine) and they look better. My biggest adversary are the bumps I occasionally get (but more frequent than id like to admit).


No, no trouble looking over twisted in the center.


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## NoviceAddicted

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I will try the equation modification tonight.
> 
> When do you take your golf tees out? Twist all the way, half the twists, twenty twists?


I use nylon spacers with washers a bolt and nut and after about 3/4 of twists unscrew nut, remove bolt and washers and pop nylon spacer out burnish string and add the rest of twists. ( I really should buy some spacers for convenience sake but these do the job and hardware store cheap) I also have plenty of golf tees for running pin stripes etc. I have learned and continue to learn from so many people here and Pro shops I buy string from online, but just wanted to mention some easy to understand, good quality videos done by Lance from Ledbetter Archery That have been very helpful. Thanks for the question.


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## NoviceAddicted

boilerfarmer I read it here about the last part of the equation being an individual thing depending on stretching methods, and keeping methods consistent. I have read other posts from here on your issues of being long now and agree, something has changed somewhere in your process, whether it be strings slipping, stretching methods etc, but hope whatever changes you make are successful, consistency in methods being key.


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## boilerfarmer12

NoviceAddicted said:


> boilerfarmer I read it here about the last part of the equation being an individual thing depending on stretching methods, and keeping methods consistent. I have read other posts from here on your issues of being long now and agree, something has changed somewhere in your process, whether it be strings slipping, stretching methods etc, but hope whatever changes you make are successful, consistency in methods being key.


I honestly don't know what it would be. I tried the .995 modification and the final stretched and relaxed string came out 1/16" under desired length. this could be remedied by .996 but I am going to run with the .995 and count on it getting a little longer after serving. 
My jig changed from my early strings and I am probably stretching to higher tensions than I was. Layout is the same.


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## NoviceAddicted

boilerfarmer12 said:


> I honestly don't know what it would be. I tried the .995 modification and the final stretched and relaxed string came out 1/16" under desired length. this could be remedied by .996 but I am going to run with the .995 and count on it getting a little longer after serving.
> My jig changed from my early strings and I am probably stretching to higher tensions than I was. Layout is the same.


It sounds like you figured it out what changed in your process boilerfarmer. I like to run my strings at about .70 twist per inch, (.75 or 3/4 twist per inch would work fine too) since from what I understand from a few sources recommended string twist ratios are .5 per inch (half twist per inch) to 1 to 1 (1 twist per inch) that way whatever minor changes you have to make (taking twists out or adding twists) to get correct string lengths is no big deal. It's great that you can stretch at higher tensions now for everything from not having peep rotation to not having to work your strings into a bow being already pre stretched and ready to tune and go.


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## bear bows

looking forward to getting to build my own


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## hicktownbowman

BCY X 24 strands with .021 halo center serving seems just a little to big for my Gold tip nocks. 

Anyone with input on this, thinking of dropping back to .019 or should I stick with .021 or try something different? 


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## PowerLineman83

hicktownbowman said:


> BCY X 24 strands with .021 halo center serving seems just a little to big for my Gold tip nocks.
> 
> Anyone with input on this, thinking of dropping back to .019 or should I stick with .021 or try something different?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is your finished diameter?

Without knowing that, I’d say serve it a little tighter. Halo needs to be served pretty tight to get a good grip on the string bundle. There are better options for center serving IMHO.


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## warrenc1

hicktownbowman said:


> BCY X 24 strands with .021 halo center serving seems just a little to big for my Gold tip nocks.
> 
> Anyone with input on this, thinking of dropping back to .019 or should I stick with .021 or try something different?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Running Halo center eh? Might try .021 Angel Majesty and run it tighter or .018 and run a tail under your serving.


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## hicktownbowman

PowerLineman83 said:


> What is your finished diameter?
> 
> Without knowing that, I’d say serve it a little tighter. Halo needs to be served pretty tight to get a good grip on the string bundle. There are better options for center serving IMHO.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’ll measure that diameter again later I did once but didn’t save it. What’s your preferred center serving material?



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## PowerLineman83

hicktownbowman said:


> I’ll measure that diameter again later I did once but didn’t save it. What’s your preferred center serving material?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Majesty, Powergrip and Halo... in that order. I’m not saying I won’t use Halo, but it isn’t my preferred material for center serving.


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## hicktownbowman

Thanks, I’ll do some experimenting. My center serving measured about .004 thousandths bigger then stock winner choice’s 


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## vchilander

Wow, awesome, would love to make my own strings. Now if I can get my head rapped around all this great info. I may have to give it a shot. Thanks.


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## caspian

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Do you ever see the center of the string look over-twisted?


the string will twist equally per inch along its entire length. there's nothing about the centre that will make it twist at a different rate than any other part of the string.



> My biggest adversary are the bumps I occasionally get (but more frequent than id like to admit).


assuming you're laying up the string with equal strand tension in the first place, either cut down or eliminate burnishing before twisting. it's very difficult to control the burnishing tension per bundle which leads to inconsistent stretch, not burnishing until after you have twisted and stretched is the simple easiest solution. if you get colour bleed between bundles then switch to low wax material if you have not done so already.

the other thing I did that eliminated bumps (along with not pre-burnishing) is don't just let off all the tension on the string all at once when you have finished serving. try letting the string/cable down over a period of time, allowing the "relax" to take up tension again before backing off the jig more. obviously this is an issue in a production environment, but if you're just making for yourself, you can afford a few hours for a progressive let-down for a superior result.


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## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> I’ll measure that diameter again later I did once but didn’t save it. What’s your preferred center serving material?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For the price and performance, you'll have a hard time finding anything better for center serving than BCY Powergrip. I bet .018" Powergrip would fit your nocks perfectly.


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## skynight

I'll throw my two cents in on the bumps.
I've never seen them. I burnish individual colors after stretch before twist. I only build with bcy X, and I don't do a lot of volume. 
But I suspect the reason why I don't see the bumps is the material used for burnishing. I see guys post that they are using string material or other harsh, hard material for burnishing. I use white masonry twine, fat and soft to burnish. This is what Deezlin (lil John jig creator) recommends in his DVD on building strings. I run it up and down multiple times at 200# tension, and do it again after twisting. No bumps.


----------



## PowerLineman83

skynight said:


> I'll throw my two cents in on the bumps.
> I've never seen them. I burnish individual colors after stretch before twist. I only build with bcy X, and I don't do a lot of volume.
> But I suspect the reason why I don't see the bumps is the material used for burnishing. I see guys post that they are using string material or other harsh, hard material for burnishing. I use white masonry twine, fat and soft to burnish. This is what Deezlin (lil John jig creator) recommends in his DVD on building strings. I run it up and down multiple times at 200# tension, and do it again after twisting. No bumps.



So you stretch before twisting?

I’ve heard this from guys before and I have done it before. I will say I no longer do it.

Everyone has a process that works for them and they all work!


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## skynight

PowerLineman83 said:


> So you stretch before twisting?
> 
> I’ve heard this from guys before and I have done it before. I will say I no longer do it.
> 
> Everyone has a process that works for them and they all work!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes I usually do, only because I learned by watching deezlin's DVD and that was his method. 
I will say I'm considering changing that, but if so I'd still burnish the colors individually at 200# first.


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## bear bows

how you get his dvd ? 


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## Huntinsker

bear bows said:


> how you get his dvd ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


He used to sell them. Not sure he's doing it anymore though.


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## bear bows

ok will keep looking been trying to follow this thread all the technics just getting started will except any help and advice i can get thanks


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## bear bows

hey thanks auto got me some reading to do dropbox opened it on the phone 


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## automan26

bear bows said:


> hey thanks auto got me some reading to do dropbox opened it on the phone
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Awesome...That PowerPoint may be a freebie, but it has tons more info than anything you can purchase commercially. Enjoy!!!!

Automan


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## bear bows

already well into it thanks again!


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## C.D.T

I like Brownell Diamondback centre serving


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## hicktownbowman

For the guys using the black magic tire wet for the serving clarifier are you applying it to your spool of serving or to the serving after it’s on the string? 


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## automan26

C.D.T said:


> I like Brownell Diamondback centre serving


Diamondback is an oldie but a goodie. I still use it and liked it a lot. There are some servings that are claimed to be better but some have issues I don't find with Diamondback.

Automan


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## skullerud

Hi, making a recurve string for a 70" AMO bow, and while I found the correct finished length (66.5"), I have a hard time figuring out the string length on the jig before twists.
Do I use the same formula as for compound strings?


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## Huntinsker

skullerud said:


> Hi, making a recurve string for a 70" AMO bow, and while I found the correct finished length (66.5"), I have a hard time figuring out the string length on the jig before twists.
> Do I use the same formula as for compound strings?


Depends on how you build it. Many trad builders will build without twists and then twist after serving. Personally, I don't see any benefit to that at all so I build them like a compound but with a little looser twist rate.


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## NoviceAddicted

hicktownbowman said:


> For the guys using the black magic tire wet for the serving clarifier are you applying it to your spool of serving or to the serving after it’s on the string?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't even tried it yet since I don't need any strings right now, but I was assuming you would put the Black Magic Tire wet on string and then serve over it.


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## skynight

Clarifier is last step on finished serving.


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## PowerLineman83

skynight said:


> Clarifier is last step on finished serving.


Not always. 

As I said in a previous post, everyone has their own process.

Honestly you can get your serving a little clearer putting your “clarifier” on as you lay the serving down.

Picking the right colors to run clear serving with is a bigger deal if you ask me. If a customer is dead set on clear over dark colors I explain the downsides and do what they ask. If they don’t like it when they get it, tough darts... I do my best to curb disappointment on the front end of a sale vs after the fact.


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## bear bows

yep so many choices to pick from that everyone is saying is the best to use crap got supplies lined up from eders to 60x making me dizzy just trying to figure out what to get lol


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## NoviceAddicted

Have had great customer service from 60x custom strings here.


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## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> I haven't even tried it yet since I don't need any strings right now, but I was assuming you would put the Black Magic Tire wet on string and then serve over it.


I typically put clarifier on after serving but have tried adding a couple drops directly to my serving jig at the hole where the serving passes through. That works well too. I have not ever applied it to the string and then run the serving on top of it. I think it would be hard to determine how much you would need in that case. I know people use liquid-lok like that but I've never used that either.


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## NoviceAddicted

Thanks Huntinsker. I appreciate the input.


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## hicktownbowman

Alright looking for y’alls input/opinions/criticism. 

On top side of this picture is .014 white halo and that is nearly as clear as I can get it (which is very comparable to a set of factory winner choice strings laying around) the .014 is serving for the canon track. 

On the bottom of the picture is the string stop serving that I used .007 white halo and as you can see it is very clear! Using clarifier on both 

Is there something I can do to get the .014 clearer? Or is using .007 for cam track serving a option or will it be too small and not durable enough?

Thanks in advance! 











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## PowerLineman83

hicktownbowman said:


> Alright looking for y’alls input/opinions/criticism.
> 
> On top side of this picture is .014 white halo and that is nearly as clear as I can get it (which is very comparable to a set of factory winner choice strings laying around) the .014 is serving for the canon track.
> 
> On the bottom of the picture is the string stop serving that I used .007 white halo and as you can see it is very clear! Using clarifier on both
> 
> Is there something I can do to get the .014 clearer? Or is using .007 for cam track serving a option or will it be too small and not durable enough?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your .014” Halo looks good to me. 

Keep in mind it was never designed to go clear. It is a pleasant side effect of serving it tightly and using clarifier...

That being said, you could try serving a smidge tighter. Or, try some 2x for your shooting string and leave the Halo for your cables. I wouldn’t have any issue using .007” for end servings on shoot strings or letout side of cables...it’s not tough enough for the take up sets of cables in my opinion.

As I’ve said before, I get lots of requests for clear serving and I want to make my customers happy so I’ve gotten to where I can get good results when it is requested. BUT, I happen to hate clear serving for my own personal use. We are trying to get serving to grip the string material to avoid separation, right? Then we add an oil to make it go clear.... it’s prone to slipping more than other servings, period. That makes it an inferior serving to use. Again, just my opinion....

Also, it never looks as good as the day you install the strings. Also, used over the wrong colors it will “mud out” and look like crap... food for thought.


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## hicktownbowman

Thanks powerlineman I wonder if it was good as it was gonna get kinda deal, and you are right the color under it makes the difference but my dad really wanted it over his black and orange. [emoji1303]


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## PowerLineman83

hicktownbowman said:


> Thanks powerlineman I wonder if it was good as it was gonna get kinda deal, and you are right the color under it makes the difference but my dad really wanted it over his black and orange. [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It will work over black/orange, as you know, it just isn’t my cup of tea.

People seem to love that stuff though!


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## NP Archery

IMO....Very good info here from PowerLineman about clear serving. These are my findings as well. Clear serving has it's place but not every place is a good choice.


----------



## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> Alright looking for y’alls input/opinions/criticism.
> 
> On top side of this picture is .014 white halo and that is nearly as clear as I can get it (which is very comparable to a set of factory winner choice strings laying around) the .014 is serving for the canon track.
> 
> On the bottom of the picture is the string stop serving that I used .007 white halo and as you can see it is very clear! Using clarifier on both
> 
> Is there something I can do to get the .014 clearer? Or is using .007 for cam track serving a option or will it be too small and not durable enough?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks pretty good to me. If that was another FLO color and not black, it would look clearer because it would be two bright colors instead of bright and dark. While a big contrast like you have there will show through pretty well, dark colors under clear serving will almost always allow some of the white of the serving to be seen. Two very bright colors will make the eye not pickup the little bit of white. 

Like PowerLineman83 said, I don't personally like to use clear on my stuff. It's cool while it's on the stretcher and it looks neat but as soon as you bend it around a mod, the clear turns milky and white again in that area. It will still look good where it doesn't bend but once on a bow, it'll never look as good as it did on the jig. Nice to have the trick in the bag though.


----------



## NP Archery

Huntinsker said:


> ....It's cool while it's on the stretcher and it looks neat but as soon as you bend it around a mod, the clear turns milky and white again in that area. It will still look good where it doesn't bend .......


If I'm the installer and when I'm done with everything, I'll take a q-tip and some clarifier and touch up those areas that have turned a little milky before I hand the bow over to the owner. Takes only a second and adds a little to the look.


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## caspian

automan26 said:


> Diamondback is an oldie but a goodie. I still use it and liked it a lot. There are some servings that are claimed to be better but some have issues I don't find with Diamondback.


Diamondback is a very favourite material of mine. .018" is good fit for centre serving, it grips well and wears gently.


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## automan26

This stuff goes perfectly clear without clarifier. It's really good material.

Automan


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## Brandon42166

Just caught up on the last few months of post. Sucks they doing away with fury...any tried the new fury? I just bought like 6 spools 6 months ago lol...


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## C.D.T

Ok for centre serving I still prefer Angel Majesty or Diamondback as the d loop does not seem to try to push between & separate these materials like it can with Halo. 
I also prefer to pull all my serving tails through the centre of the string (this requires looped tags to be placed in the string before twisting or minimum before serving the twisted string. 
As for clarifier I use liquid lok as I serve which clears it up & clarifier after which clears it more & removes any tacky liquid lok from the serving surface. 
For the clearest serving agree with automan and like the Berkley fireline but for a tougher better wearing serving that will still clear up then I like Spiderwire the best. Spiderwire is similar to Bullwhip & Duragrip but a lot cheaper & available in colours for when you want coloured serving rather than clear. 
I also like the spiderwire for nocking points and tying peeps as it grips nicely. 
If you are looking for a cheap alternative to liquid lok, pva glue works great. 
Alternative to clarifier is WD40 sprayed onto a disposable chux cloth & applied. 
Alternative to bow wax is Lanolin spray onto a chux wipe (only used once the string needs waxing)
Never spray any aerosol product directly onto the materials as the chemicals in the propellant can potentially damage the materials. Always spray onto a cloth first.


----------



## C.D.T

Brandon42166 said:


> Just caught up on the last few months of post. Sucks they doing away with fury...any tried the new fury? I just bought like 6 spools 6 months ago lol...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes I am using "Rampage" which is the replacement for Fury. The only difference I can tell is that it is a little thinner again than Fury. 
I am guessing this was to keep up with BCY releasing Mercury. 
So if you have Fury keep using it & once the spool runs out then switch to Rampage. If you are making single colour strings there won't be any issue other than adding about 2 more strands to the string for the same finished size as before. 
If you are using multiple colours then you shouldn't mix the 2 :/ 
I have gone back to single colours so it doesn't worry me. 
You could slowly replace your material as needed & use Rampage on strings and Fury on cables as well depending on how much Fury you have


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## doulos

Ok i have a goofy question here. I have built only a few strings and I used tag ends. I tried to build a served end today and had a heck of a time doing the loops with .007 Halo. If the serving tool is not set really tight the very small diameter serving slides out of the playout slot very easily. I tried 2 different tools(Beiter and a Bearpaw) If I set the tool tight enough for that to stop I twist the string Im trying to serve. I had about 100lbs tension on the jig with my Baker to minimize the string twist. Did not want to go higher. I had to go very slow. I was hoping this was going to be faster than tag ends. It might be if i get this learning curve out of the way. Any suggestions? Any other serving tools or serving to try for end loops? Is Halo .014 to fat for end loops. I have some BCY 3D also. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> Ok i have a goofy question here. I have built only a few strings and I used tag ends. I tried to build a served end today and had a heck of a time doing the loops with .007 Halo. If the serving tool is not set really tight the very small diameter serving slides out of the playout slot very easily. I tried 2 different tools(Beiter and a Bearpaw) If I set the tool tight enough for that to stop I twist the string Im trying to serve. I had about 100lbs tension on the jig with my Baker to minimize the string twist. Did not want to go higher. I had to go very slow. I was hoping this was going to be faster than tag ends. It might be if i get this learning curve out of the way. Any suggestions? Any other serving tools or serving to try for end loops? Is Halo .014 to fat for end loops. I have some BCY 3D also. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


I know lots of guys using the bearpaw and beiters for end loop serving. One thing to help would be to put a golf tee through the bundle angling inside the jig posts on each end. This'll stop some rotation. There are tons of served end loop strings produced each year with twist in the loops. The key, I've been told, is to have the "right amount of twist". Say you're making a red/black string. If the red is on top coming in, you want it on top going out. One full twist in the end loop should be okay. I haven't had the time recently to play much with served loops but I got this advice from some really quality builders and they all seemed to agree that one full twist in the loop was okay but you don't want to go more than that if you can help it.


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## doulos

Huntinsker said:


> I know lots of guys using the bearpaw and beiters for end loop serving. One thing to help would be to put a golf tee through the bundle angling inside the jig posts on each end. This'll stop some rotation. There are tons of served end loop strings produced each year with twist in the loops. The key, I've been told, is to have the "right amount of twist". Say you're making a red/black string. If the red is on top coming in, you want it on top going out. One full twist in the end loop should be okay. I haven't had the time recently to play much with served loops but I got this advice from some really quality builders and they all seemed to agree that one full twist in the loop was okay but you don't want to go more than that if you can help it.


I dont have the problem with .014 Halo with either jig. Only with .007 Halo. As far as twisting I can minimize it if my serving jig isnt so tight.


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> I dont have the problem with .014 Halo with either jig. Only with .007 Halo. As far as twisting I can minimize it if my serving jig isnt so tight.


I think I misunderstood your original post. I thought I read that it would pay out too easily. I just re-read it and you were talking about it sliding out of the slot. My bad. A quick and easy way to fix that is to modify the Beiter and add a screw with a piece of wire that you can rotate into the way to block the slot. Someone on here has shown that but I can't remember where in the thread or who did it. What I do is to just turn the jig so that the direction of travel forces the material into the slot. I have the slot facing the direction the jig is moving instead of away.


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> I think I misunderstood your original post. I thought I read that it would pay out too easily. I just re-read it and you were talking about it sliding out of the slot. My bad. A quick and easy way to fix that is to modify the Beiter and add a screw with a piece of wire that you can rotate into the way to block the slot. Someone on here has shown that but I can't remember where in the thread or who did it. What I do is to just turn the jig so that the direction of travel forces the material into the slot. I have the slot facing the direction the jig is moving instead of away.


I drilled a super small hole right behind the slot. I only use this particular jig for loop serving.










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## doulos

Thanks guys. That gives me some ideas. I could modify it or just pick up a Cartel or any jig that has a hole to feed the serving through instead of a slot. This is the first time I ever used serving that thin and never ran into this before. Is .014 Halo ok for end loops?


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## PowerLineman83

doulos said:


> Thanks guys. That gives me some ideas. I could modify it or just pick up a Cartel or any jig that has a hole to feed the serving through instead of a slot. This is the first time I ever used serving that thin and never ran into this before. Is .014 Halo ok for end loops?


Sure. Transition will be a bit bulkier, but I use it occasionally for loops.


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## C.D.T

If you hunt through the thread here there is a photo of how to easily modify a serving jig to stop this


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## skynight

I use a cavalier serving jig and 15# Chinese Spectra fishing line for end loops. Tried 10# but was not durable enough. I use 150# of tension and small nails at the corners to minimize twist. Twist still occurs, you can watch it when you back off the tension. Does not seem to matter.

As a technique to make this serving faster, I pull out about 2" of serving and flip the server around the bundle. It wraps up that 2" quick and beautiful. Then pull down 2"and do it again. 150# of tension helps that work.


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## SamT

For end loops I use the Arizona Cavalier Pro serving tool. It has only a hole for the serving thread to feed through. Since .007 doesn't require a beefy jig and end-loop serving is usually only a couple of inches, it works great for me. 

https://www.amazon.com/Arizona-Archery-Enterprises-1745-Cavalier/dp/B0000AVEI9

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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> I dont have the problem with .014 Halo with either jig. Only with .007 Halo. As far as twisting I can minimize it if my serving jig isnt so tight.


Here's where b0w_bender shows his modification to his beiter. 

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=166&p=1088352249#post1088352249


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> Thanks guys. That gives me some ideas. I could modify it or just pick up a Cartel or any jig that has a hole to feed the serving through instead of a slot. This is the first time I ever used serving that thin and never ran into this before. Is .014 Halo ok for end loops?


Not sure if my attempt to post this earlier is showing for anyone else or not so I'll try again. This is b0w_bender's modification to his beiter.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=166&p=1088352249#post1088352249


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## boilerfarmer12

haven't made many buss cables, and not one in a while. I'm pretty sure the guy that showed me to build said you have to twist one of the other legs opposite of your twist direction to keep them from wanting to twist back together. Is this correct?


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## nestly

boilerfarmer12 said:


> haven't made many buss cables, and not one in a while. I'm pretty sure the guy that showed me to build said you have to twist one of the other legs opposite of your twist direction to keep them from wanting to twist back together. Is this correct?


Nope. both yoke legs should maintain the same twist direction as the rest of the buss. (Twisting one leg opposite wouldn't prevent them from twisting up on each other anyway.)


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## boilerfarmer12

nestly said:


> Nope. both yoke legs should maintain the same twist direction as the rest of the buss. (Twisting one leg opposite wouldn't prevent them from twisting up on each other anyway.)


Thanks nestly!


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## automan26

I have never heard of that. I always keep all my twisting in the same direction. Mixing twist directions will lead to problems. 

Automan


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> haven't made many buss cables, and not one in a while. I'm pretty sure the guy that showed me to build said you have to twist one of the other legs opposite of your twist direction to keep them from wanting to twist back together. Is this correct?





automan26 said:


> I have never heard of that. I always keep all my twisting in the same direction. Mixing twist directions will lead to problems.
> 
> Automan


What nestly said. When you twist them opposite, it causes them to cable up on each other. That's what holds Flemish twist strings together. You roll the bundles one way and then twist them around each other the opposite way. That keeps them from untwisting. Same happens to a yoke when they are twisted opposite as each other.


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## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> What nestly said. When you twist them opposite, it causes them to cable up on each other. That's what holds Flemish twist strings together. You roll the bundles one way and then twist them around each other the opposite way. That keeps them from untwisting. Same happens to a yoke when they are twisted opposite as each other.


Makes sense. So I just need to untwist the legs from each other and then add twists to reduce the length?


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> Makes sense. So I just need to untwist the legs from each other and then add twists to reduce the length?


Yep. Post #89 on page 4 has more details on how I do split buss cables. For my standard yoke legs, unwrapping them from around one another and then adding 3 twists to each gets the length back to what it was. Yours may vary some depending on your twist rate and build style of course.


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## doulos

Huntinsker said:


> Not sure if my attempt to post this earlier is showing for anyone else or not so I'll try again. This is b0w_bender's modification to his beiter.
> 
> https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=166&p=1088352249#post1088352249


THANKS
Huntinsker
I was trying to find that but couldn't.


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## doulos

Another newbie question
. Ive only served toward the post and I know a lot of builders are serving that way also. But is there an advantage to it?


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> Another newbie question
> . Ive only served toward the post and I know a lot of builders are serving that way also. But is there an advantage to it?


Personal preference is what it comes down to. I suggest you try both and do what you get the best results with. I've tried both and I get consistently better results serving towards the posts as opposed to away. For me, starting on a round bundle is easier than starting where the loop is separated.


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## doulos

Huntinsker said:


> Personal preference is what it comes down to. I suggest you try both and do what you get the best results with. I've tried both and I get consistently better results serving towards the posts as opposed to away. For me, starting on a round bundle is easier than starting where the loop is separated.


When you are finishing your serving and are ready to pull the loop back through how much tension do you have on the string? Im still experimenting.


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> When you are finishing your serving and are ready to pull the loop back through how much tension do you have on the string? Im still experimenting.


I decrease the tension down to about 150lbs and that allows the loop to come together nicely.


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## skynight

Anyone have a good source for bulk Halo? 60X wants $145 for a 1/4# spool.


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## PowerLineman83

skynight said:


> Anyone have a good source for bulk Halo? 60X wants $145 for a 1/4# spool.


What exactly are you expecting? Dealer price?

Halo is expensive any way you slice it.....


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## skynight

PowerLineman83 said:


> What exactly are you expecting? Dealer price?
> 
> Halo is expensive any way you slice it.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just asking. My previous source was lil John archery at $20 per 120yd spool. Which works out to $160 for 1/4#.
Just thought I'd save more than $15 spooling it myself.


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## PowerLineman83

skynight said:


> Just asking. My previous source was lil John archery at $20 per 120yd spool. Which works out to $160 for 1/4#.
> Just thought I'd save more than $15 spooling it myself.


The short answer is yes, you will save some...

Here’s my take... 1/4# .014” Halo costs me $115+$5 or so for shipping. Shipping to you would be $5-$10 depending on how it’s going packed and where it’s going. I’ve got $130 in the spool and getting it to you.... how much is reasonable for me to make off of that? With the price you’re quoting, Brad isn’t making very much if you ask me.

I wouldn’t do it for $145 shipped tyd... my time is worth more than that.

Unfortunately, that’s the breaks. Want the best pricing you can get?? You’ll have to become a dealer. That takes more than most guys/gals are will be to do. 

I hope this helps and this is my opinion based on my costs and what I would be willing to do.


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## b0w_bender

for the above posts here is the Beiter with the wire mod. This really does work great. you slide the thread under the wire when lacing it up and it will never again leave the slot.


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## C.D.T

b0w_bender said:


> for the above posts here is the Beiter with the wire mod. This really does work great. you slide the thread under the wire when lacing it up and it will never again leave the slot.


This is such a good hack. 
Works great.


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## sticks32

Great Ideas! Thank You!!!


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## nestly

b0w_bender said:


> for the above posts here is the Beiter with the wire mod. This really does work great. you slide the thread under the wire when lacing it up and it will never again leave the slot.


I don't know how I missed this mod, but I just finished my first set of strings with it and it worked great and saved a me a few profanities....lol










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## Jabr357

nestly said:


> I don't know how I missed this mod, but I just finished my first set of strings with it and it worked great and saved a me a few profanities....lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Nice job! tell us how you did it. 

Did you drill a hole first and use a computer case screw to tighten down the wire (looks like)? How about the wire - spring steel?


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## Brandon42166

For you more experienced guys I made a string for a old mq32 70% factory calls for a 85.5 string and a 34 cable. They was dead on measurements. Put them on and ata 32.5 specs 32 7/8. Brace was at 8.5 like specs. Draw it has a sld.5r cam 27.5 “ draw ends up being 29. I put to many twist in it and still can’t get draw down to right. Got it 28.5....but way to many twist.....look for a little guidance here I’ve read Mathews published lengths are never right does this thing need longer cables and shorter string...any ideals?? 


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## PowerLineman83

Brandon42166 said:


> For you more experienced guys I made a string for a old mq32 70% factory calls for a 85.5 string and a 34 cable. They was dead on measurements. Put them on and ata 32.5 specs 32 7/8. Brace was at 8.5 like specs. Draw it has a sld.5r cam 27.5 “ draw ends up being 29. I put to many twist in it and still can’t get draw down to right. Got it 28.5....but way to many twist.....look for a little guidance here I’ve read Mathews published lengths are never right does this thing need longer cables and shorter string...any ideals??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Generally speaking, their solo cam bows need the buss cable about 1/4” shorter than spec. The problem encountered is generally not hitting peak draw weight.

I can’t say that I’ve tuned that particular model though.


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## nestly

Jabr357 said:


> Nice job! tell us how you did it.
> 
> Did you drill a hole first and use a computer case screw to tighten down the wire (looks like)? How about the wire - spring steel?


The wire is 1/16 piano wire, but I don't think you'd need anything that tough, a paperclip would probably work just fine. The screw is/was actually a self tapping tec-screw, but I cut off the drill part to leave only about 3/16" of threads. It didn't occur to me at the time, but yeah a computer case screw probably would have worked perfect with no modifications. I disassembled the jig and drilled a hole the same size as the screw shank, which I think was about 0.15" dia. I only drilled through the top flange and into the void, the screw stops just short of the lower plastic flange.


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## Jabr357

nestly said:


> The wire is 1/16 piano wire, but I don't think you'd need anything that tough, a paperclip would probably work just fine. The screw is/was actually a self tapping tec-screw, but I cut off the drill part to leave only about 3/16" of threads. It didn't occur to me at the time, but yeah a computer case screw probably would have worked perfect with no modifications. I disassembled the jig and drilled a hole the same size as the screw shank, which I think was about 0.15" dia. I only drilled through the top flange and into the void, the screw stops just short of the lower plastic flange.


Thanks! I am going to mod mine too.


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## b0w_bender

I think my wire was a coat hanger and the screw was a computer component screw... lol, obviously sparing no expense


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## Huntinsker

Brandon42166 said:


> For you more experienced guys I made a string for a old mq32 70% factory calls for a 85.5 string and a 34 cable. They was dead on measurements. Put them on and ata 32.5 specs 32 7/8. Brace was at 8.5 like specs. Draw it has a sld.5r cam 27.5 “ draw ends up being 29. I put to many twist in it and still can’t get draw down to right. Got it 28.5....but way to many twist.....look for a little guidance here I’ve read Mathews published lengths are never right does this thing need longer cables and shorter string...any ideals??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's a long way off but not surprising with a Mathews single cam, especially an older one. It wasn't unheard of if they drew a whole inch longer than their cam would otherwise indicate. Since you have the bow, I'd say keep playing with it until you get it where you want. Check the draw weight and draw length and keep adjusting the harnessing lengths until the draw weight and length spec out like you want them. The ATA and brace height are just approximate numbers anyway and they don't really matter in how it shoots. 

Here's an old thread where I shared a specific Mathews string lengths story about my buddies 2010 z7 that I build for to give you an idea of how these things sometimes go. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2568737&page=2


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## zotparkerm

Does anyone have string specs for the Prime Rival LD (Long Draw) model (7" BH, 31" DL)?
I've searched as well as one can with the existing search tools with no luck.
Thanks


----------



## wilkinsonk

zotparkerm said:


> Does anyone have string specs for the Prime Rival LD (Long Draw) model (7" BH, 31" DL)?
> I've searched as well as one can with the existing search tools with no luck.
> Thanks


Isn't the LD just a longer limb set, allowing the cams to gain an inch in DL? So #1 PCXL gives 31" instead of 30".

Those strings are 28.125" string, 41.437" cable, and 33.790" yoke.

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## zotparkerm

Thanks, W
I guess I need to be more clear - anyone have string build specs?
My bow is in KY (sounds like a country song) and I am in TX for a couple weeks and thought I would build a new set while I have some time, so I can't extract the data from my bow.


----------



## SamT

Have you tried this forum? https://archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4706753 They usually have string specs there.

Good Luck.


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## zotparkerm

SamT said:


> Have you tried this forum? https://archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4706753 They usually have string specs there.
> 
> Good Luck.


Yes sir.
No luck there either. Worst case I will wait until next round trip and measure the strings. I was just hoping to get a head start.


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## automan26

*Stupid is as stupid does*

Now that I am retired I have a lot of time to do more of the things I love. I went to my shop and built two new El-Cheap-Os and decided to use them to build some new strings for my Bowtech. The first set came out looking very nice until I put them on my bow and the color combo sucked, so immediately I set about building something else. I went to the range today to install my new threads and they looked great. I hit all my specs on the first try then set about to install the nock point, peep, loop and tie in my drop away cord. It took two arrows to get it perfectly paper tuned and the bare shaft shot a perfect bullet hole. After a minimal amount of tweaking I had my bare shaft grouping perfectly with my fletched shafts at 20 yards. I was one happy camper until I went to put the bow back in the case and noticed that I had used a little too much heat when melting the tag ends on the peep serving. I accidentally burned thru a strand in my yellow bundle. Well, now that I am retired I have time tomorrow to build another brand new string.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Now that I am retired I have a lot of time to do more of the things I love. I went to my shop and built two new El-Cheap-Os and decided to use them to build some new strings for my Bowtech. The first set came out looking very nice until I put them on my bow and the color combo sucked, so immediately I set about building something else. I went to the range today to install my new threads and they looked great. I hit all my specs on the first try then set about to install the nock point, peep, loop and tie in my drop away cord. It took two arrows to get it perfectly paper tuned and the bare shaft shot a perfect bullet hole. After a minimal amount of tweaking I had my bare shaft grouping perfectly with my fletched shafts at 20 yards. I was one happy camper until I went to put the bow back in the case and noticed that I had used a little too much heat when melting the tag ends on the peep serving. I accidentally burned thru a strand in my yellow bundle. Well, now that I am retired I have time tomorrow to build another brand new string.
> 
> Automan
> 
> View attachment 6556665
> View attachment 6556669


Nice combo but man that stinks! Glad you're enjoying your time now that you're retired.


----------



## bear bows

Huntinsker said:


> Nice combo but man that stinks! Glad you're enjoying your time now that you're retired.


i believe auto is having entirely too much fun with his new day job ( just how many sets of unliked color combos are on that corner of the bench over there ? lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## automan26

bear bows said:


> i believe auto is having entirely too much fun with his new day job ( just how many sets of unliked color combos are on that corner of the bench over there ? lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I love my new day job. I have a whole drawer full of strings that were changed out just because I got tired of looking at the color combo. I rebuilt the string I ruined earlier this week and took it to the range last night to get it dialed in. I think it is a keeper. This is a pic of my 20 yard group with a bare shaft (white nock) right there with the rest of them. I know that there are guys hovering around this thread trying to get the guts to jump in and start building their own threads. You guys can do it...Go For It. If I had paid money for the string I ruined earlier I would be ticked, but since I am a builder I was left with enjoyable task of building another and building it better. I am by no means a high volume, professional builder; I am a hobby builder, but hobby builders can build strings that can shoot as good as anything purchased commercially.

Automan


----------



## x-it

Hey do any of you guys have serving specs by chance for a Hoyt pro edge Z5 #3 cams str 60.63 bc 37.75 cc 39.75 thanks


----------



## Bownut400

I just added a printable post settings spread sheet on my website. Free to download. Go check it out and let me know how it works for you all. 
I can’t put a link so you will have to search Baker Archery products. 
Hope it helps


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## lees

Hi guys, I just ordered a PSE Shootdown but thought I'd try making a set of strings/cables for it before it arrives. 

Apologies if I just didn't find the right place for this info, but does anyone have the specs available? I have the lengths from the website, but I need the serving lengths for everything if it's available? I'll be using 452X natural, I assume the yokes are 16 strands, and 24 strands for the rest, correct? 

Thanks, 
lee.


----------



## automan26

lees said:


> Hi guys, I just ordered a PSE Shootdown but thought I'd try making a set of strings/cables for it before it arrives.
> 
> Apologies if I just didn't find the right place for this info, but does anyone have the specs available? I have the lengths from the website, but I need the serving lengths for everything if it's available? I'll be using 452X natural, I assume the yokes are 16 strands, and 24 strands for the rest, correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> lee.


Even though you do not have the serving lengths right now, there is still something you can do. Go ahead and build the string and cables to the point where they are ready to serve then set them aside until the bow arrives. Once you have the bow in your hand you can run a piece of string along the served portions while the string and cables are still on the bow and measure off that string to determine your serving lengths. You won't be exact, but you will be close enough that it won't matter. Now that you have something to go by, serve your string and cables using the measurements from the measurement string and you will be good to to. I have used this method for several sets of strings I have built in the past and everything worked out great.

Automan


----------



## bear bows

auto you get my pm or you been having too much fun with new day job to respond understandable sure i would be lol


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## automan26

bear bows said:


> auto you get my pm or you been having too much fun with new day job to respond understandable sure i would be lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


ThanX for reminding me. Now that I am retired my *OFS* is really starting to flare up. (*O*ld *F*art *S*yndrome) I answered what I think is the PM you are referring to, but if not let me know and I will remedy the situation more quickly than I did for the last one.

Automan


----------



## bear bows

lmao OFS best laugh i’ve had all day have a good one 


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## lees

automan26 said:


> Even though you do not have the serving lengths right now, there is still something you can do. Go ahead and build the string and cables to the point where they are ready to serve then set them aside until the bow arrives. Once you have the bow in your hand you can run a piece of string along the served portions while the string and cables are still on the bow and measure off that string to determine your serving lengths. You won't be exact, but you will be close enough that it won't matter. Now that you have something to go by, serve your string and cables using the measurements from the measurement string and you will be good to to. I have used this method for several sets of strings I have built in the past and everything worked out great.
> 
> Automan


Ok thanks Auto. My bow actually came in today (I did a mini review in the general section), so now I have it in hand to work off of. Fortunately the Livewire strings that are on it now seem to be good enough that I'll probably get a full season out of them and won't replace right away. But I'll use the string trick you described in the meantime. The lengths on the yoke cables are the only goofy ones to measure since they wrap around tracks in the cams.

I think I won't miss making split yoke cables for it like for my supra max and my wheel bow, tho .

lee.


----------



## BWBOW

Lancaster has 8190f for 40% off if anyone is looking


----------



## bear bows

is there a difference between 8190 and 8190f (auto)? looked it up all i get is comparisons with 452x and x


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## BWBOW

8190 had gore in it. 8190f doesnt so it's a bit smaller diameter. I used it a few years ago and didn't have any problems with it. Very stable IMO


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## bear bows

so its a less abrasive material like whats used with torqueless dloops


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## bear bows

just trying to keep all this info straight can get a little over loaded on info but have gotten some wonderful advise and tips from members on ATALK THANKS you guys know who you are i’m sure i’ve been long winded at times of course ATALK limits me to 5200 characters at a time lol guess cause using my phone thanks again really appreciate help and advise now just need to work on techniques and get them down pat 


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## hicktownbowman

This may be asked before but on a 2 post jig roughly how far apart do you set your post when building the short loops for a Mathews Halon? I assume I’ll need to account for stretching but obviously no twists? 


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## BWBOW

First set on a El cheapo worked real well









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## automan26

WOW!!! I am blown away...You did a tremendous job. It was only a few weeks ago that I shipped you that jig and already you are cranking out killer threads. What a coincidence...I was in my shop building an El-Cheap-O when my phone chimed informing me that someone had posted on this thread. When I opened it I saw your post it put a huge smile on my face and I had to go show the wife what you built on that jig.

Be proud, shoot well, and by all means show all your friends what you can do. This is the time of year when you just might pick up a string job for a friend and part of your outlay for the jig will be paid off. If you can build two sets, the jig just paid for itself.

You Dun Gud!!!!!

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> This may be asked before but on a 2 post jig roughly how far apart do you set your post when building the short loops for a Mathews Halon? I assume I’ll need to account for stretching but obviously no twists?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Need to account for twists. You just twist them by rolling the loops rather than actually twisting. If you yoke is 13" long, you'll need to set your posts longer than that to begin with, maybe 13 3/8". It's been a while since I've made one so my number may not be very close but like with anything string building, it ultimately depends on your build style so experimentation will be necessary.


----------



## Mongostatus

Long time lurker in this thread. Actually bought the jig a few months ago but didn't have the nerve to use it until a few weeks ago. I made my first pinstripe!









I learned a lot from this thread but wanted to specifically shout out to automan26 for the wonderful after-sale support on the jig and also Huntinsker for the especially valuable tips and tricks. Maybe I can share one of my own. One issue I was running into was the "shoulder" of the posts actually causing the first couple of winds to be ever so slightly shorter than the rest on layup because they would just fall into the groove:









So I grabbed a 1/4" bit and drilled about 1/16" down into the hole, and took a 120 grit sanding disc on the Dremel and smoothed the surface back out:









Problem solved!


----------



## C.D.T

New strings for the shiny new thing


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## C.D.T

BWBOW said:


> First set on a El cheapo worked real well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


What string material did you use & what was the thread count on string, cables & yokes?


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## BWBOW

Material was 8190f. 28 strand string 30 cables 20 yokes
Serving material on string was 3d. On cables and yokes Angel majesty


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## automan26

Mongostatus said:


> Long time lurker in this thread. Actually bought the jig a few months ago but didn't have the nerve to use it until a few weeks ago. I made my first pinstripe!
> 
> View attachment 6579771
> 
> 
> I learned a lot from this thread but wanted to specifically shout out to automan26 for the wonderful after-sale support on the jig and also Huntinsker for the especially valuable tips and tricks. Maybe I can share one of my own. One issue I was running into was the "shoulder" of the posts actually causing the first couple of winds to be ever so slightly shorter than the rest on layup because they would just fall into the groove:
> 
> View attachment 6579773
> 
> 
> So I grabbed a 1/4" bit and drilled about 1/16" down into the hole, and took a 120 grit sanding disc on the Dremel and smoothed the surface back out:
> 
> View attachment 6579775
> 
> 
> Problem solved!
> 
> View attachment 6579777


My bad...I should have caught that. I really like your simple fix. I have been using something slightly different, but I think I am going to take a serious look at doing what you did. Your pinstripe is top-drawer. I'm glad you took the plunge and gave string building a shot. Welcome to the addiction.

Automan


----------



## dbierman

Anyone in west Tennessee building strings? Maybe Fayette County?


----------



## Red Voodoo

What number of strands should I use on a set for a Energy 35?


----------



## Huntinsker

Mongostatus said:


> Long time lurker in this thread. Actually bought the jig a few months ago but didn't have the nerve to use it until a few weeks ago. I made my first pinstripe!
> 
> View attachment 6579771
> 
> 
> I learned a lot from this thread but wanted to specifically shout out to automan26 for the wonderful after-sale support on the jig and also Huntinsker for the especially valuable tips and tricks. Maybe I can share one of my own. One issue I was running into was the "shoulder" of the posts actually causing the first couple of winds to be ever so slightly shorter than the rest on layup because they would just fall into the groove:
> 
> View attachment 6579773
> 
> 
> So I grabbed a 1/4" bit and drilled about 1/16" down into the hole, and took a 120 grit sanding disc on the Dremel and smoothed the surface back out:
> 
> View attachment 6579775
> 
> 
> Problem solved!
> 
> View attachment 6579777


Beautiful pinstripe and nice easy fix if anyone else runs into that problem on the posts.


----------



## Huntinsker

Red Voodoo said:


> What number of strands should I use on a set for a Energy 35?


Depends on what material. 22 with 452x, 28 with Fury, 30 with Rampage or Mercury and maybe X-99, 24 with X.


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## bowbrothersmdb

Another take on a string anchor. Two roofing washers back to back with a tek screw.














5 wraps and it's not going anywhere but easy to get off when needed.
The washers must be tightly fastened or the string can slip between and get cut.


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## cruizerjoy

I cant seem to find any info for strand count for BCY X99 on strings and cables. Any info would be much appreciated. Making strings for a PSE Evolve.


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## Huntinsker

cruizerjoy said:


> I cant seem to find any info for strand count for BCY X99 on strings and cables. Any info would be much appreciated. Making strings for a PSE Evolve.


Guys I know that are using it are using the same strand count as with Fury. 28 on strings and 30-32 for most cables, should use 20 on the Evolve yokes.


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## Red Voodoo

Fury. 28 on the string and 30 on cable is what I did for my Turbo Hawk last year. Making a set for a guy I work with. He shot my old Jaguar last year, that was my first attempt ever. He upgraded to a Energy and wants me to make him a set for it. I don't make very many, so need to brush up on it.


----------



## cruizerjoy

Thanks guys. This thread has been an inspiration. I've built a couple of sets with 452x and they turned out pretty good. Just wanted to try something different to see if I liked it better. Thanks again.


----------



## lab32

Hello guys. My question is about Brownell Bullwhip: does white become transparent as halo? And how colored (especialy bright) hold color compared to halo? 
Thanks in advance...


----------



## lab32

Trying to attach examples of my work


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## patches2565

Is the jig for sale? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> Hello guys. My question is about Brownell Bullwhip: does white become transparent as halo? And how colored (especialy bright) hold color compared to halo?
> Thanks in advance...


It works well for clear and it holds color better than halo.


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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Is the jig for sale?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Not sure what you're asking. We show you how to build it so you don't have to buy one. If you're looking for a commercial jig, check out BAP jigs. They're very popular in the industry.


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## lab32

Huntinsker said:


> It works well for clear and it holds color better than halo.


Thanks


----------



## C.D.T

lab32 said:


> Hello guys. My question is about Brownell Bullwhip: does white become transparent as halo? And how colored (especialy bright) hold color compared to halo?
> Thanks in advance...


Better than Halo and grippier so it doesn't separate like Halo can. Also a close match to Bullwhip for lower cost is the white Spiderwire


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## lab32

C.D.T said:


> Better than Halo and grippier so it doesn't separate like Halo can. Also a close match to Bullwhip for lower cost is the white Spiderwire


Thank You. I`m looking for the best cable end serving than can resist those harsh module curves. Angel Majesty is perfect but it comes only in black. Black Bullwhip is good too. Also I noticed that black halo grips better than white and colored. I`ll try colored bullwhip.


----------



## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> Thank You. I`m looking for the best cable end serving than can resist those harsh module curves. Angel Majesty is perfect but it comes only in black. Black Bullwhip is good too. Also I noticed that black halo grips better than white and colored. I`ll try colored bullwhip.


You can get Majesty in blue and red too... trouble is finding someone that has it.


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## patches2565

I made an application with the formula for number twists and post length. It can be changed on the fly to account for different strand thicknesses if need be. If you want to view it then hit me up with your email via PM.

PS archery is badass

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## patches2565

From the app









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## patches2565

Also can get to the app by www.openasapp.net

Search 
Bow string Calculator 

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## automan26

I just downloaded your app and it works very nicely. I'm going to keep it on my phone and it will be very handy when I build my strings. Well done!! I am sure a lot of guys are going to get some good use out of this app.

Automan


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## patches2565

automan26 said:


> I just downloaded your app and it works very nicely. I'm going to keep it on my phone and it will be very handy when I build my strings. Well done!! I am sure a lot of guys are going to get some good use out of this app.
> 
> Automan


Thanks I appreciate it

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Also can get to the app by www.openasapp.net
> 
> Search
> Bow string Calculator
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Pretty cool. I'm not one to use apps on my phone but I'm sure some would get a lot of use out of it. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## PowerLineman83

I have some things I’m thinking of posting for sale and wanted to let you all have first crack...

I have a pile of Mercury if anyone is looking for some material.

Also, I picked up a couple Little Jon string jigs and I only need ONE! [emoji23]

Shoot me a PM if you’d like to discuss either. You can also text me 515-520-7111

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lab32

patches2565 said:


> Also can get to the app by www.openasapp.net
> 
> Search
> Bow string Calculator
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Interesting thing. I didn`t know about openasapp. 

Build my calculator... Search 
Lab 32 String Calc

You can experiment with different string materials, strand counts and twistrate. 
Needs calibration based on your known data. For me I like to twist 0.85 - 0.99 per inch and for strand diameter... Mercury is 0.0135, BCY-X is .0162 and so on


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## lab32

upd. sorry, forgot to save it in public mode ))) now it`s shared


----------



## patches2565

lab32 said:


> Interesting thing. I didn`t know about openasapp.
> 
> Build my calculator... Search
> Lab 32 String Calc
> 
> You can experiment with different string materials, strand counts and twistrate.
> Needs calibration based on your known data. For me I like to twist 0.85 - 0.99 per inch and for strand diameter... Mercury is 0.0135, BCY-X is .0162 and so on


As far as the 

SL .75

Twist x .012 + SL= post Settings. Where do your numbers fall?

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----------



## patches2565

patches2565 said:


> As far as the
> 
> SL .75
> 
> Twist x .012 + SL= post Settings. Where do your numbers fall?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Is this helpful. You can modify the formula. Hope it helps ya

Based on a 39inch string length for example









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----------



## lab32

patches2565 said:


> As far as the
> 
> SL .75
> 
> Twist x .012 + SL= post Settings. Where do your numbers fall?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


In my calculator You have to enter the variable "strand diameter" (Start with .015 Try different) and formula is more complicated than twist x .012 + SL. Play and see ) Hope You`ll enjoy it.


----------



## 138104

patches2565 said:


> Also can get to the app by www.openasapp.net
> 
> Search
> Bow string Calculator
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Do I need to have an account to download the app?


----------



## automan26

I recently made a small but significant change to the El-Cheap-O. In my signature you will find a link to it in Dropbox. At this time I am not able to redo the entire PowerPoint, but I added notes throughout the presentation to reflect the change. Next summer I plan to overhaul the entire presentation to make things a bit more concise, but for now this will do fine. If some of you have previously downloaded the PowerPoint in the Dropbox link in my signature and are thinking about building the jig, you might want to download the updated version below.

I suggest downloading it to a computer; it will download to some phones, but it works a lot better on a computer.

Automan


----------



## NoviceAddicted

*Marking strings for measurement*

I'm wondering best way to mark strings for measurements? I have been using a silver sharpie and leaving just a little long as to where I am laying down servings not wanting to go over silver sharpie with servings. This hasn't been an issue, usually can burnish right off along with wax, but on last set of strings I used white string material for all of it and not much if any wax on it, so left some residue. I'm thinking it would be fine to just bury the silver sharpie markings under the servings and am going to do that on future builds thinking it won't have any effect on serving over it. I would like to hear how others make their marks, materials used, chalk, crayon, marker, etc, methods etc. Thanks!


----------



## skynight

I use a silver or black sharpie and serve over it. Can be visible under clear Halo.


----------



## nestly

I wrap a bit of blue painters tape around the string. This also prevents color mixing by having a barrier between the string and serving tool/back-wrap at the end of the serving.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


----------



## NoviceAddicted

nestly said:


> I wrap a bit of blue painters tape around the string. This also prevents color mixing by having a barrier between the string and serving tool/back-wrap at the end of the serving.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Thanks skynight and nestly. I may try the painters tape. It sounds like a great idea especially if using clear serving material.


----------



## NoviceAddicted

nestly said:


> I wrap a bit of blue painters tape around the string. This also prevents color mixing by having a barrier between the string and serving tool/back-wrap at the end of the serving.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


I bought the tape nestly and going to use on my next set of strings that I'm building soon, and I don't see why not on every set from now on. Great, nice clean method!


----------



## lab32

Has anyone tried to experiment with string twisting direction? 
So as not to get confused I will speak in terms of "right-hand thread" and "left-hand thread". Most bowstrings are made as LH thread. It means twisting right post clockwise. 
First I heard that RH string naturally spins bareshaft clockwise and the ordinary LH string spins it CCW. I`ve tested this on my bows, and it`s true. I won`t talk about how this affects the result of shooting. Maybe nohow. But I now shoot 2 bows with RHS and 2 bows with LHS. And some guys wanted RHS too. 
Наs anyone else tried it? 
My first impressions: strings come out more solid. Require more twists to achieve desired length due to individual strands untwisting while whole string is twisting. 
I`m interested in how RH-ness affects speed, string wear, serving separation, especially on cables. I don`t have much time to test in all conditions.


----------



## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> Has anyone tried to experiment with string twisting direction?
> So as not to get confused I will speak in terms of "right-hand thread" and "left-hand thread". Most bowstrings are made as LH thread. It means twisting right post clockwise.
> First I heard that RH string naturally spins bareshaft clockwise and the ordinary LH string spins it CCW. I`ve tested this on my bows, and it`s true. I won`t talk about how this affects the result of shooting. Maybe nohow. But I now shoot 2 bows with RHS and 2 bows with LHS. And some guys wanted RHS too.
> Наs anyone else tried it?
> My first impressions: strings come out more solid. Require more twists to achieve desired length due to individual strands untwisting while whole string is twisting.
> I`m interested in how RH-ness affects speed, string wear, serving separation, especially on cables. I don`t have much time to test in all conditions.
> 
> View attachment 6614191


I’ve heard of folks having similar results. Myself, I’ve always twisted clockwise and I haven’t had an issue in 10 years.

I’ve tried counterclockwise but I didn’t notice enough difference to change.

Find what works for you and stick with it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> Has anyone tried to experiment with string twisting direction?
> So as not to get confused I will speak in terms of "right-hand thread" and "left-hand thread". Most bowstrings are made as LH thread. It means twisting right post clockwise.
> First I heard that RH string naturally spins bareshaft clockwise and the ordinary LH string spins it CCW. I`ve tested this on my bows, and it`s true. I won`t talk about how this affects the result of shooting. Maybe nohow. But I now shoot 2 bows with RHS and 2 bows with LHS. And some guys wanted RHS too.
> Наs anyone else tried it?
> My first impressions: strings come out more solid. Require more twists to achieve desired length due to individual strands untwisting while whole string is twisting.
> I`m interested in how RH-ness affects speed, string wear, serving separation, especially on cables. I don`t have much time to test in all conditions.
> 
> View attachment 6614191


Never tested but I think you'll be pretty hard pressed to find any difference in how a bow/shooter performs with right vs left hand twist strings. Build how you build the best string and the rest doesn't matter.


----------



## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> Never tested but I think you'll be pretty hard pressed to find any difference in how a bow/shooter performs with right vs left hand twist strings. Build how you build the best string and the rest doesn't matter.


Absolutely!!!!!!

Over the years I have watched as scores of breakthrough ideas and discoveries have come and gone. Someone makes a breakthrough discovery and everyone jumps on it like a fat kid on a Twinkie, then time goes on and everyone realizes that it really didn't make any measurable difference. Back around 1985, I watched a guy at a pro shop range shoot a perfect score on a 5 spot. He had never heard of cam lean, shimming cams, exotic string and serving materials, vibration dampeners, and on and on. He just took a bow that by today's standards can't shoot and turned in perfect scores every time. Today we have many ground breaking new discoveries, ideas, and technologies and we don't shoot as well as that guy and his fistful of what we would call unshootable garbage today.

We spend too much time trying to fix our bows when fixing ourselves would do far more than $500.00 worth of new technologies and discoveries.

Once you have yourself in tune, you can get away without lots of things others insist are essential to turning in a good score.

Build a quality string and don't fall into the trap of overthinking all the rest.

Automan


----------



## lab32

Thank you guys speaking words of wisdom

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----------



## patches2565

automan26 said:


> Absolutely!!!!!!
> 
> Over the years I have watched as scores of breakthrough ideas and discoveries have come and gone. Someone makes a breakthrough discovery and everyone jumps on it like a fat kid on a Twinkie, then time goes on and everyone realizes that it really didn't make any measurable difference. Back around 1985, I watched a guy at a pro shop range shoot a perfect score on a 5 spot. He had never heard of cam lean, shimming cams, exotic string and serving materials, vibration dampeners, and on and on. He just took a bow that by today's standards can't shoot and turned in perfect scores every time. Today we have many ground breaking new discoveries, ideas, and technologies and we don't shoot as well as that guy and his fistful of what we would call unshootable garbage today.
> 
> We spend too much time trying to fix our bows when fixing ourselves would do far more than $500.00 worth of new technologies and discoveries.
> 
> Once you have yourself in tune, you can get away without lots of things others insist are essential to turning in a good score.
> 
> Build a quality string and don't fall into the trap of overthinking all the rest.
> 
> Automan


Facts. I had a guy come to me with a bad left tear. He said his form was perfect so he bought a 150 dollar rest. I watched him shoot after I set him up and he was torquing so bad I thought the string was going to pop off. I said "well good news is I found the problem bad news is it wasn't the bow or rest"

Changed his grip and wa la 

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## nestly

lab32 said:


> Has anyone tried to experiment with string twisting direction?
> So as not to get confused I will speak in terms of "right-hand thread" and "left-hand thread". Most bowstrings are made as LH thread. It means twisting right post clockwise.
> First I heard that RH string naturally spins bareshaft clockwise and the ordinary LH string spins it CCW. I`ve tested this on my bows, and it`s true. I won`t talk about how this affects the result of shooting. Maybe nohow. But I now shoot 2 bows with RHS and 2 bows with LHS. And some guys wanted RHS too.
> Наs anyone else tried it?
> My first impressions: strings come out more solid. Require more twists to achieve desired length due to individual strands untwisting while whole string is twisting.
> I`m interested in how RH-ness affects speed, string wear, serving separation, especially on cables. I don`t have much time to test in all conditions.


First of all, you are correct that twisting the string "clockwise" (as described) actually creates a left twisted string (left Helix).

Secondly, I do think string twist direction makes a "difference", however that difference can compensated for by tuning and/or fletching direction, so it's impractical (and pointless IMO) to actually "test" each bow with both left and right twisted strings hoping to find an advantage.

What is known is that string twist direction (and serving direction) determine the natural rotation direction of the arrow being cast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP9FDh6oOmo&t=6s


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## lab32

nestly said:


> First of all, you are correct that twisting the string "clockwise" (as described) actually creates a left twisted string (left Helix).
> 
> Secondly, I do think string twist direction makes a "difference", however that difference can compensated for by tuning and/or fletching direction, so it's impractical (and pointless IMO) to actually "test" each bow with both left and right twisted strings hoping to find an advantage.
> 
> What is known is that string twist direction (and serving direction) determine the natural rotation direction of the arrow being cast.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP9FDh6oOmo&t=6s


Good video. I did the same but 1 thing more... looked which string gives me _faster_ BS rotation. As a result 2 rh and 2 lh strings on 4 bows.
Pointless? Yes! Maybe... Many things we do seem to be pointless: served loops, pinstripes et c. However somwhere deep down we think that our bows shoot better with smooth and nice looking strings.

Another question is how RH made cable will perform due to its higher density








I don`t know if it`s good or bad - but this cable stands on yokes and LH cable made the same way will not.

sorry if i brought something unwanted in this thread...


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## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> Good video. I did the same but 1 thing more... looked which string gives me _faster_ BS rotation. As a result 2 rh and 2 lh strings on 4 bows.
> Pointless? Yes! Maybe... Many things we do seem to be pointless: served loops, pinstripes et c. However somwhere deep down we think that our bows shoot better with smooth and nice looking strings.
> 
> Another question is how RH made cable will perform due to its higher density
> 
> View attachment 6615089
> 
> I don`t know if it`s good or bad - but this cable stands on yokes and LH cable made the same way will not.
> 
> sorry if i brought something unwanted in this thread...


I wouldn’t apologize for a thing... good discussion!


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## SamT

X2.

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## automan26

I first heard of this topic of arrow rotation a few weeks ago from a friend to whom I sold a jig. He learned of it and did some independent testing and confirmed that this phenomenon is correct. His conclusion was that we should be fletching arrows so they spin the arrow in the direction of natural rotation based on direction of string twist. This is one of those things that pops up once in awhile that seems correct on the surface, but does it really work in reality?

I don't have a stand on this issue, but I knew back at the time I first heard about it, that when this topic hit AT, it would be a hot one for a short while. For years the top pro shooters have been blazing the tournament circuit without this new piece of knowledge and they shoot awesome. It won't be long before someone is going to turn up in one of the other forums here on AT and state as fact that string twist, and proper fletching direction are essential to accuracy. I'm not convinced. There are a lot of things that seem to make sense and are even observable, that really are not all that correct. Example: I have a friend who has demonstrated to himself time after time that arrows fly into the wind as they sail downrange. His logic is that the wind catches the fletch, blowing it to one side like on a weather vane and this steers the arrow into the wind. He is convinced of this fact because it happens to him on windy days, so it must be true. Sometimes good logic makes for bad archery.

I guess my main point here is that this phenomenon is observable and measurable, but is it really important to arrow performance? We need to approach this subject with great care and not turn this into the holy grail for shooting tight groups. Mark my word, it won't be long before someone comes on one of the other forums and testifies that matching string twist with fletching direction improved his score tremendously and this new discovery should now be an essential component to consider when building arrows.

If someone has a mean streak, they could toss this out on the General Discussion forum and I guarantee that this topic will start a major flame war.

Right now I find this phenomenon interesting, but I my jury is still out about whether or not it has any noticeable affect on arrow flight. 

Automan


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## bear bows

is interesting discussion of if the milliseconds or less it takes for the arrow to stabilize from spinning the opposite direction as it leaves the bow hmmm maybe would be better to put lead fletchings on it mount a rifled barrel with directional twist of ones choosing which sure there will be a war over which is better use steel striker to set off charge to launch arrow down range oh but first we need to calculate earths gravitational rotation effect on a 20 yard shot or maybe we should factor that in will bare shaft tuning at 3’ to start and while were at it lets throw in calculations for todays temp barometer readings what elevation and altitude and our shot angle only counts above 23’ minimum any lower might as well just stand on ground and we won’t forget moon phase for those that want low light factor requires peep with light (next great idea for archery think will include a night vision with thermal imaging option) let’s see have i forgot any other factors that need to be included oh this test can only be conducted with minimum 85 lb draw weight will this work for all of you please if forgotten any factors that should be included i humbly ask your forgiveness for just a backwards numb nut have a great day yaall i’m gonna shut up now and continue my squirrel watching 


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## SamT

Automan, just coincidently, this evening I come across this video: https://youtu.be/nxV_11gFzGo

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## nestly

SamT said:


> Automan, just coincidently, this evening I come across this video: https://youtu.be/nxV_11gFzGo


I would take that with a grain of salt. If Levi really believes that, it's a recent development because reviewing old photos, he won most of his titles shooting arrows fletched the "wrong way". Stephan Hansen was the #1 ranked World Archery mens shooter when he discovered that he had attained that ranking shooting arrows fletched against the natural rotation direction. 
As long as I've been a target archer, I've always tested left vs right fletchings, and it does make a difference "sometimes", but you cant predict which direction will shoot best by shooting a bareshaft, sometimes arrows fletched against the "natural rotation direction" group better. Trial and error is the only way to figure it out (assuming someone has the desire to waste that much time).


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## cscott1988

This thread is awesome. Thank you, to all the contributors for bringing this information, and your learned experience together for someone like me, who is completely new to string building. I am going to do a lot of printing and start building some strings. 

I have a few spools of 452x and serving material, and a 4 post jig. Time to mcguiver up a stretcher.


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## lab32

Obsession makes strings and cables twisted right-handed. There are very few obsession bows in our places... What string material do they use? How quality are their factory strings?


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## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> Obsession makes strings and cables twisted right-handed. There are very few obsession bows in our places... What string material do they use? How quality are their factory strings?


They use ABB... not my cup of tea, but they’re better than Stone Mountain [emoji23]










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## lab32

PowerLineman83 said:


> They use ABB... not my cup of tea, but they’re better than Stone Mountain [emoji23]
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 And speckled string means 452x.


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## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> And speckled string means 452x.


Likely, but the big dogs have enough pull to get “proprietary” blends put together for them.

Similar to the VTX material that VaporTrail offers. IMO that was an impressive and pioneering move on VT’s part.


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## automan26

Here is something to think about when it comes to natural arrow rotation and fletch direction. Before one can make any reliable determination about the effects of fletch spinning the arrow in its unnatural direction, we need to know a couple things that are beyond our capability of measurement. First, we would have to know how much torque it takes to cause arrow rotation. My guess is that the amount of torque needed would be microscopic. Next, we would need to know the amount of torque produced by the fletch. Again, this would be microscopic. Torque is defined as a twisting force.

Let me throw out a hypothetical situation using *totally fabricated* numbers. Let's say that it takes .00001 inch/pounds of torque to rotate the arrow clockwise. Let's also say that the fletch exerts a torque on the arrow of 0.2 inch/pounds in the opposite direction. In this scenario the amount of torque exerted on the arrow is so tiny that it would offer absolutely no resistance against the torque produced by the fletch. In this scenerio, we would observe natural arrow rotation, but is the torque associated with that natural rotation sufficient to have any significant influence to counteract the torque of the fletch? In this case, using hypothetical numbers, probably not. Until we can accurately measure the differences in torque between arrow rotation and fletch rotation, we can only observe and guess.

Next, it might be argued that one could re-fletch the arrows in the opposite direction and observe which fletching direction produces the tightest group. I am not saying this would not be a valid test, but there is another factor that comes into play, and that is the subconscious human factor. Let me explain. We have all purchased some new bobble that we were sure would improve our accuracy and the moment we get it home and start using it...It works great!!!! (For about 3 weeks), then everything falls back into the pattern we were experiencing before. When we first shot that new bobble, we were in a different mindset and the thing appeared to work. It wasn't that $200.00 bobble, it was our brain that improved our scores for a short time and later we drifted back into the same-old-same-old.

Could changing my direction of fletch produce a subconscious desire to shoot a more careful shot in the assumption that I need to bare down and really concentrate so I can get good data? Maybe.

Now....Let me be the first to criticize what I have just stated above because without accurate measurements to go on, I could be just blowing smoke. This is why I am taking a middle of the road stand on this issue. (You all know what runs up the middle of the road don't you?...A big yellow streak.)

These are just my thoughts...Feel free to differ.

Automan


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## nestly

I have a few videos up on my Youtube that shows different fletchings at different distances. Some (low profile/soft) fletchings I tested may travel as much as 20 feet before the arrow stops spinning the direction of the natural rotation and it begins spinning with the fletchings. Blazers (that had a decent amount of helical) were the only arrow that were not still spinning according to the "natural rotation direction" at 6 feet... that includes feathers.

In general, I agree that results can often be skewed by the archers preconceived notions or frame of mind.
On this particular subject, I'm personally confident that my test periods have been long enough for that not to be a factor. Plus, I really don't care whether left shoots tighter or right does, I have no preference, I have fletching jigs for both so there's no reason for me to prefer left vs right, or vice-versa. I have drawers full of fletchings, and boxes full of identical arrows that are fletched opposite of each other. I'm only interested in whether one shoots better, I have no favorites and no preference for whether the fletching matches the natural rotation direction or not.


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## lab32

Automan, Nestly, it's very convincing. I have no preferences too. The goal is to be able to make strings with given properties. For someone who doesn't want to hear any reasonable arguments. 

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## lab32

And maybe there are some specific conditions that arrow clocking can fight: untuned bow or bad shot execution... I believe faster rotation will help a little.

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## Scubaalan

Hello all! I want to start off by saying thank you to all who has shared their ideas and information on string jig building and string building, especially Automan and huntsinker who inspires us all to dream up of all the different jig versions and improvements. Has anybody build any strings with BCY mercury? I am current building recurve strings for my daughter’s and friends Olympic recurve bows with a 4 post jig I build. I am currently building a El-cheap jig to start compound strings. Any information regarding using BCY mercury for compound bow strings would be appreciated. I currently own a pse xpression and bear anarchy hc.


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## PowerLineman83

Scubaalan said:


> Hello all! I want to start off by saying thank you to all who has shared their ideas and information on string jig building and string building, especially Automan and huntsinker who inspires us all to dream up of all the different jig versions and improvements. Has anybody build any strings with BCY mercury? I am current building recurve strings for my daughter’s and friends Olympic recurve bows with a 4 post jig I build. I am currently building a El-cheap jig to start compound strings. Any information regarding using BCY mercury for compound bow strings would be appreciated. I currently own a pse xpression and bear anarchy hc.


I’ve got some Mercury for sale if you’re interested.


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## bear bows

ok trying to us patches calculator anyone up that has played with it ?


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## automan26

I have looked it over and it works great. I downloaded the app to my phone. I like I a lot.


Automan


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## bear bows

i did to trying to build split bus cable having a little fun getting posts set lol


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## lab32

Scubaalan said:


> Hello all! I want to start off by saying thank you to all who has shared their ideas and information on string jig building and string building, especially Automan and huntsinker who inspires us all to dream up of all the different jig versions and improvements. Has anybody build any strings with BCY mercury? I am current building recurve strings for my daughter’s and friends Olympic recurve bows with a 4 post jig I build. I am currently building a El-cheap jig to start compound strings. Any information regarding using BCY mercury for compound bow strings would be appreciated. I currently own a pse xpression and bear anarchy hc.


I use Mercury. Great material. some inconsistency in wax from spool to spool may cause inconvenience. Everything else is good.

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## bear bows

it’s actually pretty cool program like it


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## bear bows

wanted to try some mercury but got 452x in right color so gonna try my hand with it built one already but wasn’t happy with ends so trying again 


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## patches2565

Hope ya like it. Just made my wife's string and it was spot on


bear bows said:


> ok trying to us patches calculator anyone up that has played with it ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## bear bows

thanks 


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## Scubaalan

Thanks powerlineman for the offer! I would have taken up your offer if I had not purchased 3 rolls of mercury last week. I have been building with Bcy mercury for the last few months for recurve bows and would like to start using it to build my first compound set. I find that the BCY mercury has very similar properties compared with the fury that is currently on my pse xpression(twisted x). Anybody else has experience in terms of the strand count to use on the string and cables using Bcy mercury material?


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## lab32

Scubaalan said:


> Thanks powerlineman for the offer! I would have taken up your offer if I had not purchased 3 rolls of mercury last week. I have been building with Bcy mercury for the last few months for recurve bows and would like to start using it to build my first compound set. I find that the BCY mercury has very similar properties compared with the fury that is currently on my pse xpression(twisted x). Anybody else has experience in terms of the strand count to use on the string and cables using Bcy mercury material?


30-32 string, 34-36 cables, 24 yokes


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## Scubaalan

Thank you sir! Will do a test string to determine nock fit with halo.


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## bear bows

ok on patches string calculator the second box is that for material diameter or string diameter i know you probably covered it previously but i missed it i guess thanks for any help in advance


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## lab32

Scubaalan said:


> Thank you sir! Will do a test string to determine nock fit with halo.


Powergrip 018 better

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## patches2565

bear bows said:


> ok on patches string calculator the second box is that for material diameter or string diameter i know you probably covered it previously but i missed it i guess thanks for any help in advance
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


.75 is the twist rate and .012 is the strand thickness approximately of 452x. With the app it will get you either spot on or within a twist

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## bear bows

ok got it going to make me a not and put on jig just for future reference thanks


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## bear bows

yeah thought i screwed up my measurements last night but just checked again with the patches calculator its comes out right measured twice so guess was just tired last night thought i’d missed measured lol note to self don’t start strings when already tired lol


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## Kaveman44

what size shrink tube is used to cover the speed nocks that people are making? i found a place that sells it in alot of collors , just not sure about the size


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## PowerLineman83

Kaveman44 said:


> what size shrink tube is used to cover the speed nocks that people are making? i found a place that sells it in alot of collors , just not sure about the size


1/4” 3:1 shrink ratio is what I use.

https://www.wirecare.com/category/h...eneral-purpose/3-1-polyolefin-general-purpose


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## Kaveman44

building a string for my new Mathews Halon 32/6 and am at the point where all i need to build is the two 13" pieces that replace the yokes, my question is what size serving are you guys using on that part? i saw a video where a guy said he used the >007 halo, buy when i look at the string from Mathews it looks bigger, like the .014 halo., thanks for the help guys


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## patches2565

I though they were 12 inch?


Kaveman44 said:


> building a string for my new Mathews Halon 32/6 and am at the point where all i need to build is the two 13" pieces that replace the yokes, my question is what size serving are you guys using on that part? i saw a video where a guy said he used the >007 halo, buy when i look at the string from Mathews it looks bigger, like the .014 halo., thanks for the help guys


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## PowerLineman83

patches2565 said:


> I though they were 12 inch?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


It depends on the model... older Monsters run 12” and the Halon series are 13”. Subtle differences here and there.

Finished diameter of .098” or less... I’ve used .007” Halo/.008 Spectra and more strands with say Mercury and I’ve used .014” Halo/Bullwhip as well. 


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## nestly

Kaveman44 said:


> building a string for my new Mathews Halon 32/6 and am at the point where all i need to build is the two 13" pieces that replace the yokes, my question is what size serving are you guys using on that part? i saw a video where a guy said he used the >007 halo, buy when i look at the string from Mathews it looks bigger, like the .014 halo., thanks for the help guys


I just did a Halon32 last week. Yokes are 13" and I used 20 strands of 452X. My notes say the yoke servings should not exceed .100. I used BCY 2X serving on the yokes and they finished at .094. 
.014 Halo on 20 strands of 452X should be right at .100.


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## patches2565

PowerLineman83 said:


> It depends on the model... older Monsters run 12” and the Halon series are 13”. Subtle differences here and there.
> 
> Finished diameter of .098” or less... I’ve used .007” Halo/.008 Spectra and more strands with say Mercury and I’ve used .014” Halo/Bullwhip as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. I'm building a set for my MR5 and plan to post a true length for all that doesn't take 8 twists to get tuned. 

Appreciate the info

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## PowerLineman83

patches2565 said:


> Thank you. I'm building a set for my MR5 and plan to post a true length for all that doesn't take 8 twists to get tuned.
> 
> Appreciate the info
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I’ve not had much trouble using factory lengths for Monster/Halon bows.

Most solo cam Mathews are a different story.


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## Kaveman44

I have both setup with 28 strands of Brownell Fury, will the .014 halo be ok with that


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## Kaveman44

And what are you guys using to measure final diameters?


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## nestly

Kaveman44 said:


> And what are you guys using to measure final diameters?


Micrometer / Vernier Caliper


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## patches2565

PowerLineman83 said:


> I’ve not had much trouble using factory lengths for Monster/Halon bows.
> 
> Most solo cam Mathews are a different story.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Twice in a row I had my DL nearly an inch long. I tried different builders as well. I went with a different length and it was better but not great.

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## nestly

patches2565 said:


> Twice in a row I had my DL nearly an inch long. I tried different builders as well. I went with a different length and it was better but not great.


I don't think that's so much the strings being longer than the charts, that's Mathews fudging draw lengths to make their bows seem faster than they really are. If someone knows they actually have a 29" DL, they need a Mathews that's labeled as 28-1/2 because that's going to be closer to 29 than one labeled 29.


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## patches2565

I ended up doing just that. I have e 28.5 on my mr5 and its fitting nicely

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## Kaveman44

just served about 1 inch with 0.014 halo and it measured at 0.103, i think I'm good with that?


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## Kaveman44

nestly said:


> Micrometer / Vernier Caliper


just remembered i had on from my wood working days!!!!!! thanks for the heads up!!


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## nestly

Kaveman44 said:


> just served about 1 inch with 0.014 halo and it measured at 0.103, i think I'm good with that?


I wouldn't be concerned about it on the yoke ring, but I'd be mindful of going oversized on cam and string grooves.


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## patches2565

Is it normal for the string to want to untwist when I take it off the jig when done? I just did a yoke for my wife's bow and it wanted to untwist. Just wondering

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## patches2565

patches2565 said:


> Is it normal for the string to want to untwist when I take it off the jig when done? I just did a yoke for my wife's bow and it wanted to untwist. Just wondering
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Never mind. I see that the last step is to secure the loops. I shoulda kept reading. No biggie I'll just remeasure 

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## nestly

patches2565 said:


> Is it normal for the string to want to untwist when I take it off the jig when done? I just did a yoke for my wife's bow and it wanted to untwist. Just wondering


How much? A freshly made string right off my stretcher might untwist 1/2 or 1 twist pretty quickly and it might untwist more over time if not restricted, which is why string loops are usually clipped together in the package. If it untwisted a lot, or twisted up on itself when the tension was removed but the loops not allowed to untwist, then it's likely that one or more of the servings was applied the wrong direction.


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## Hunter Hr.

Hi.. This is my string jig that i made from iron pipe 2" x 2" what you think?


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## lunghit

Made a beginners mistake but luckily it was only on a 5 1/2" length of serving so it was easy to start over. I serve towards the loop and when I get to the loop I always lower the tension to about 100 pounds. Like always I pulled the tag end through to finish the loop and cut the excess off but leaving about 1/8" to burn into a ball. This time I didn't burn the end right away, I went to the other side to serve that end serving. I cranked the tension up to 300 pounds and when I did that it pulled the tag end that I didn't burn back through into the serving. I ended up cutting that whole section of serving off and did it over. Just something to think about when you are working. Always melt the tag end before you increase tension.


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## patches2565

nestly said:


> How much? A freshly made string right off my stretcher might untwist 1/2 or 1 twist pretty quickly and it might untwist more over time if not restricted, which is why string loops are usually clipped together in the package. If it untwisted a lot, or twisted up on itself when the tension was removed but the loops not allowed to untwist, then it's likely that one or more of the servings was applied the wrong direction.


It was just 1 I believe. I didnt hold the loops when i took them off the post

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## automan26

Hunter Hr. said:


> Hi.. This is my string jig that i made from iron pipe 2" x 2" what you think?


You did an awesome job. If you build strings as well as you built that jig, you will be an outstanding builder. Great Job!!!

Automan


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## B.Hunter

Hunter Hr. said:


> Hi.. This is my string jig that i made from iron pipe 2" x 2" what you think?


Hunter Hr, That is a very nice setup. You did an awesome job on it!


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## Hunter Hr.

Thanks.. I didn't build string yet... I need buy some material.. I read alot about string building and Thanks everyone who share information on this tread.


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## warrenc1

Ok I might be a little behind here but just got on Lancaster to order material and I see BCY X99, is this new?


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## PowerLineman83

warrenc1 said:


> Ok I might be a little behind here but just got on Lancaster to order material and I see BCY X99, is this new?


Yes. Newly formulated with SK99 Dyneema. SK99 is what what Mercury is made from.


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## nestly

warrenc1 said:


> Ok I might be a little behind here but just got on Lancaster to order material and I see BCY X99, is this new?


X99 is the replacement for BCY-X, which is out of production.

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## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> Hi.. This is my string jig that i made from iron pipe 2" x 2" what you think?


Looks really nice. If it's stiff and doesn't flex, it'll build a great set of threads.


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## NoviceAddicted

nestly said:


> X99 is the replacement for BCY-X, which is out of production.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


I have heard they can't get the materials for the BCY-X anymore? BCY-X is all I have for string material. Is the X-99 as good as the BCY-X, and any recommendations for string material when I run out?


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## PowerLineman83

NoviceAddicted said:


> I have heard they can't get the materials for the BCY-X anymore? BCY-X is all I have for string material. Is the X-99 as good as the BCY-X, and any recommendations for string material when I run out?


If you like X, you’ll like X-99. It’s a more refined material. 


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## NoviceAddicted

PowerLineman83 said:


> If you like X, you’ll like X-99. It’s a more refined material.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks PowerLineman.


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## PowerLineman83

NoviceAddicted said:


> Thanks PowerLineman.


Anytime! 


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## lab32

Personally for me I don`t like x99 very much. I`m not going to get rid of it, but IMHO it`s too dry and string comes out "springy". It tends to untwist and curl individual strands. A little more wax would be better. I`d remove extra if I need.


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## codyhockenbrock

Is there a forum that strictly shares string specs? 

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## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> Personally for me I don`t like x99 very much. I`m not going to get rid of it, but IMHO it`s too dry and string comes out "springy". It tends to untwist and curl individual strands. A little more wax would be better. I`d remove extra if I need.


Try waxing before removing it from your jig. 

I personally prefer low wax, NO wax would be best IMHO.

Mercury is that way too. It is all low wax. It helps getting your finished diameters down where they should be.


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## PowerLineman83

codyhockenbrock said:


> Is there a forum that strictly shares string specs?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


There is a section here on AT under Strings/Arrows. There are a couple stickies with string specs.


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## codyhockenbrock

Thank you

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## lab32

PowerLineman83 said:


> Try waxing before removing it from your jig.
> 
> I personally prefer low wax, NO wax would be best IMHO.
> 
> Mercury is that way too. It is all low wax. It helps getting your finished diameters down where they should be.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I understand what is low wax. A pair of my spools of Mercury are just as harsh and springy as x99. But the most are significantly better. 
And... the Rampage is the best. IMHO. Sufficient amount of wax. Not too much. No problems with finished diameters.


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## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> I understand what is low wax. A pair of my spools of Mercury are just as harsh and springy as x99. But the most are significantly better.
> And... the Rampage is the best. IMHO. Sufficient amount of wax. Not too much. No problems with finished diameters.
> 
> View attachment 6628303
> 
> View attachment 6628307
> 
> View attachment 6628309
> 
> View attachment 6628311


I wasn’t insinuating that you didn’t know what low wax meant... 

Have a good one!


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## lab32

PowerLineman83 said:


> I wasn’t insinuating that you didn’t know what low wax meant...
> 
> Have a good one!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank You for advise. I appreciate it


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## automan26

lab32 What did you use for clear? That material looks very nice.

Automan


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## lab32

That`s 50lb eight-strand spectra on cams and 20lb under rollers


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## automan26

That looks very nice.!!!!!!

Automan


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## lab32

Thank You Automan. I`m pleasantly surprised by this color combination: сocobola/red/orange. Can`t wait to get new brownell colors!


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## bear bows

thought that color combo turned out great looking lab32


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## NoviceAddicted

*string making nock fit.*

I usually run 24 strands of BCY-X colored strings which retain some thickness from wax even after burnishing in 2 different steps of building process for my compound strings with .021 center serving, using bohning pin nocks which has been a good match for me. I made a set of strings recently with white BCY-X which appears to have little to no wax, 24 strands. The pin nocks are loose, free spinning and can be pushed and pulled without any resistance even though they snap in. I know there are different methods to thicken up area to re serve center and would like to here some methods used. I am also waiting on 2 different diameters of center serving being shipped snail mail to re serve center serving. I am thinking I am going to run 28 strands of BCY-X for next set of white no wax strings that I make to match .021 center material I have now. I'm afraid if I go to just 26 strands I will still be nock loose. What do you think? Thanks!


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## lab32

added to 24 strands 2 extra strands of X will increase finished diameter by .009 approximately. 4 extras by .017. You need something around .110-.115 in my experience.


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## NoviceAddicted

lab32 said:


> added to 24 strands 2 extra strands of X will increase finished diameter by .009 approximately. 4 extras by .017. You need something around .110-.115 in my experience.


Thanks a lot lab32!


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## lab32

NoviceAddicted said:


> Thanks a lot lab32!


Sorry I looked in the wrong cell. 2 strands increase by .004; 4 strands by .007

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## NoviceAddicted

ok thanks lab32. I think I'm gonna try the 4 strands more at 28 strands, I use .70 twist ratio. I know there are different methods of tightening up too. The biggest thing I think it taught me is it's good to have a range of different size center servings. I think 3 sizes should do it for what I'm doing now. I know too tight is no good either can cause string to pull forward and vibration, noisy bow and possibly affect accuracy.


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## schmidtlein7

Great information! Thank you for sharing.


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## NoviceAddicted

Just some pictures of my bows that I made strings for over the past couple of years thanks to the Generosity of Members here sharing their expertise. Thanks a lot, Mark.
























I went approximate twist ratio of .70.






hit my picture limit. lol


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## NoviceAddicted

View attachment 6636611












I went lower twist ratio on these approximate .60". BCY recommends between .50" and .75". I think anywhere from .60 to .70 is a real good range. Think I'm gonna settle in at .65 on next build, but gonna be a while unless I can think of an excuse to build another set. lol


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## automan26

Those threads are top-drawer. I have always liked green and black.

The ultimate self-sufficient archer is the guy who builds his own strings, installs them himself then tunes his own bow to perfection. You are definitely there.

Automan


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## NoviceAddicted

Thanks automan. I know I learned a lot from you.


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## B.Hunter

To Huntinsker and automan26-I don't mean to derail your thread and if you like, I will deleted this post (offer):

For anyone who is not a golfer or doesn't know one and doesn't want to buy a bag full of golf tees, I will send you 4 FREE ones if you pm me your address. These are 2-3/4". While supply last-lower 48 please.


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## patches2565

Well I finished my first set. 

Good
Cams already in synch 
Draw weight perfect

Bad
Center serving was off a bit









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## patches2565

Has anyone started the end serving from the loop first?

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## hicktownbowman

patches2565 said:


> Has anyone started the end serving from the loop first?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I’m still a string building rookie but I tried and it didn’t work....at all. It untwisted my string as I served, thinking back I may it just served the wrong direction (would of been correct direction to serve too the loop) but it did seem like a good idea in theory


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## patches2565

hicktownbowman said:


> I’m still a string building rookie but I tried and it didn’t work....at all. It untwisted my string as I served, thinking back I may it just served the wrong direction (would of been correct direction to serve too the loop) but it did seem like a good idea in theory
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I think you're right about the direction. I plan to try and get a half inch or so of wraps then pull them tight. The pro of this is removes the step using a loop to pull your tag end through. I don't mind doing it with the loop but I'm interested to see which is better in regards to time/efficiency.

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## hicktownbowman

My thought were that I could produce a prettier and more neat end loop starting at the loop instead of ending at the loop. I tend to be a perfectionist and I’m fairly pleased with all of my string building besides finishing the end loops, while getting better I still have trouble getting them perfect 


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## hicktownbowman

My thought were that I could produce a prettier and more neat end loop starting at the loop instead of ending at the loop. I tend to be a perfectionist and I’m fairly pleased with all of my string building besides finishing the end loops, while getting better I still have trouble getting them perfect 


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## lab32

Serve towards the loop. You can see your string twist direction. Serve in the opposite direction.

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## patches2565

lab32 said:


> Serve towards the loop. You can see your string twist direction. Serve in the opposite direction.
> 
> Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


Yes...after reading this forum I'm finding it hard to understand the difficulty with know the direction of wraps. I literally wrote an arrow around my jig to show the direction of travel. Now no matter if I'm going from the end loop or to it I always serve with the direction of the twists. 

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## lab32

patches2565 said:


> Yes...after reading this forum I'm finding it hard to understand the difficulty with know the direction of wraps. I literally wrote an arrow around my jig to show the direction of travel. Now no matter if I'm going from the end loop or to it I always serve with the direction of the twists.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


will have to post picture again not to confuse anyone about serving direction








About the direction towards or from the loop... Serving towards creates smoother look with no gaps.


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## servingspinner

It's a little confusing, because your pics show the same thing. They show you twisting the string the opposite way. You twist so you tighten the bundle.

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## automan26

This subject seems to pop up every once in awhile, so let me boil it down to two simple principles. 1. Stop trying to visualize in your mind what is happening; it will only contribute to confusion and frustration. 2. Always twist and serve CLOCKWISE. If you are serving toward the post, serve CLOCKWISE. If you are serving away from the post, serve CLOCKWISE.


This doesn't seem to make sense simply because in the process of trying to visualize what is going on our brains get twisted around trying to get a 3D picture in our minds about things that are happening in two directions at once. Example; If I am serving clockwise on one end, then the string ahead of my serving is doing this while the string behind my serving is doing this, so on the other end of the string everything has to be twisting up in the opposite direction which means if I serve in the opposite direction on the other end it should go opposite so it only makes sense to go the other way on the other end of the string because it is all backwards and if I don't reverse the direction I will be serving backwards on the backwards side of the string, so backwards is really forward on one end of the string and forward is backwards on the other end of the string, so backwards is not always backwards and forward is not always forward. Sorry for the confusion, but that is how our brain starts working if we start thinking about what is going on.



*Twist and serve clockwise only and you will always come out correct.*

Automan


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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Well I finished my first set.
> 
> Good
> Cams already in synch
> Draw weight perfect
> 
> Bad
> Center serving was off a bit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Looks good. Maybe you measured the center serving from the wrong post?


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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Yes...after reading this forum I'm finding it hard to understand the difficulty with know the direction of wraps. I literally wrote an arrow around my jig to show the direction of travel. Now no matter if I'm going from the end loop or to it I always serve with the direction of the twists.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


You're never serving away from "the" loop. You're just serving towards the loop that's further away. That's why it's easy to remember. You're just serving towards the other loop so things go the same way, no matter how far away from the loop you are.


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## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> You're never serving away from "the" loop. You're just serving towards the loop that's further away. That's why it's easy to remember. You're just serving towards the other loop so things go the same way, no matter how far away from the loop you are.


I understand that. Just because I'm curious is why I'm going to start at the loop first. 

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## NoviceAddicted

I always go to the loop. Those strings look great!


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## patches2565

NoviceAddicted said:


> I always go to the loop. Those strings look great!


Thank you

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## SamT

patches2565 said:


> I understand that. Just because I'm curious is why I'm going to start at the loop first.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Serving toward the loop or away from the loop is a personal preference. 

Some ppl say that when you serve toward the loop, you get a better looking serving job where the two ends of the end-loops come together and as the serving is "stepping up" in the transition area/spread of the loop, the serving stays tighter together. (best i can explain)

When you serve away from the loop, it's harder to keep the serving tight right at that transition spot. You really have to take you time to make it look really smooth and without gaps.

(maybe others have a better way to explain it)


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> Serving toward the loop or away from the loop is a personal preference.
> 
> Some ppl say that when you serve toward the loop, you get a better looking serving job where the two ends of the end-loops come together and as the serving is "stepping up" in the transition area/spread of the loop, the serving stays tighter together. (best i can explain)
> 
> When you serve away from the loop, it's harder to keep the serving tight right at that transition spot. You really have to take you time to make it look really smooth and without gaps.
> 
> (maybe others have a better way to explain it)


I think you've about nailed it. 

Think of it like walking up or down a ramp. When walking down the ramp, it's easier to take fewer, wider steps and when going up, you have to take more, shorter steps. The serving "steps" wider going down the ramp, away from the loop, compared to going up the ramp, towards the loop. For this reason, if you're going to serve away from the loop, you may want to put some "back pressure" on the bobbin to slow its travel down the "ramp". Most people who successfully serve away from the loops have something like a Super Server where the string rotates so they can easily manipulate the speed of travel of the serving bobbin so that the wraps lay closer together. If you're spinning the bobbin, chances are you'll have better results going towards the loop.


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## patches2565

Huntinsker:

I'm preparing to make a pinstripe set for my bow. I havent worked the count out yet but my string will be 24 strands, I might go 26 on cables. That being said I have read your steps/examples over and over. 

Just so I have the right idea on the Bush cable I lay out the first primary color then the pinstripe color. At this time I serve the end loop with what should be 4 tag ends. Then I do the same with the second primary color and pinstripe. At this time I separate the colors paying attention to the pinstripes and keeping them on the outermost part of the bundle. 

From here it's pretty much as I would do a none pinstripe.

Did I miss anything? And I assume the first 2 endloops for the split yoke take a bit longer due to the 4 tags.

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## bear bows

them strings looking there patches 


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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Huntinsker:
> 
> I'm preparing to make a pinstripe set for my bow. I havent worked the count out yet but my string will be 24 strands, I might go 26 on cables. That being said I have read your steps/examples over and over.
> 
> Just so I have the right idea on the Bush cable I lay out the first primary color then the pinstripe color. At this time I serve the end loop with what should be 4 tag ends. Then I do the same with the second primary color and pinstripe. At this time I separate the colors paying attention to the pinstripes and keeping them on the outermost part of the bundle.
> 
> From here it's pretty much as I would do a none pinstripe.
> 
> Did I miss anything? And I assume the first 2 endloops for the split yoke take a bit longer due to the 4 tags.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


If you're talking about my original pinstripe instructions, disregard those. That's the biggest problem with a forum like this. You can't edit instructions as things evolve and processes get better and more streamlined. 

For a 24 strand buss cable, I'd do it this way. Lay out 10 primary color strands and tie off those tag ends at the post that will have the yoke loop. Lay out 2 of the pinstripe tag ends starting them at the bottom loop post and do not cut off the second tag end from the spool (meaning tie off the first tag end of the pinstripe and leave the other attached to the spool and tie it off). Finish the yoke end loop with the primary color tag ends. Now untie the pinstripe tag end that's still connected to the spool and lay down another wrap, this time cutting the tag end off the spool at the bottom loop post. Lay out the 10 other primary color strands with those tag ends at the yoke loop post and now finish the yoke loop post and then use the tag ends of the pinstripe to finish the bottom loop. So the layout would be 10-4-10 but will go down like 10-2-2-10 but with only 3 sets of tags. 

You could lay out the 4 strands of pinstripe and tie off the tag ends, cut them and then finish the yoke loop with only 2 of the pinstripe strands getting covered but you'd have the second pinstripe loop in the way. If you want a 2 strand pinstripe, lay out 10-2-12, still putting the pinstripe tag ends at the bottom loop end.

Here's how I separate the pinstripes with golf tees now. Post #1385 on this page. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56

Forgot to mention that you can't do a 26 strand buss cable without having an odd number of strands in the yoke legs, leaving a single tag end at one end, or you'd have to have uneven strand counts in the yoke legs, 12 in one and 14 in the other.


----------



## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> If you're talking about my original pinstripe instructions, disregard those. That's the biggest problem with a forum like this. You can't edit instructions as things evolve and processes get better and more streamlined.
> 
> For a 24 strand buss cable, I'd do it this way. Lay out 10 primary color strands and tie off those tag ends at the post that will have the yoke loop. Lay out 2 of the pinstripe tag ends starting them at the bottom loop post and do not cut off the second tag end from the spool (meaning tie off the first tag end of the pinstripe and leave the other attached to the spool and tie it off). Finish the yoke end loop with the primary color tag ends. Now untie the pinstripe tag end that's still connected to the spool and lay down another wrap, this time cutting the tag end off the spool at the bottom loop post. Lay out the 10 other primary color strands with those tag ends at the yoke loop post and now finish the yoke loop post and then use the tag ends of the pinstripe to finish the bottom loop. So the layout would be 10-4-10 but will go down like 10-2-2-10 but with only 3 sets of tags.
> 
> You could lay out the 4 strands of pinstripe and tie off the tag ends, cut them and then finish the yoke loop with only 2 of the pinstripe strands getting covered but you'd have the second pinstripe loop in the way. If you want a 2 strand pinstripe, lay out 10-2-12, still putting the pinstripe tag ends at the bottom loop end.
> 
> Here's how I separate the pinstripes with golf tees now. Post #1385 on this page. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56
> 
> Forgot to mention that you can't do a 26 strand buss cable without having an odd number of strands in the yoke legs, leaving a single tag end at one end, or you'd have to have uneven strand counts in the yoke legs, 12 in one and 14 in the other.


If you’re doing served loops you can.

I lay my buss cables out double length and fold them. It can get tricky twisting but it’s not generally a problem.

This way you get all your colors up both yoke legs. It’s just my preference, I hope this helps.


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## PowerLineman83

PowerLineman83 said:


> If you’re doing served loops you can.
> 
> I lay my buss cables out double length and fold them. It can get tricky twisting but it’s not generally a problem.
> 
> This way you get all your colors up both yoke legs. It’s just my preference, I hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can apply this technique to tag end’d loops too....


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## patches2565

PowerLineman83 said:


> You can apply this technique to tag end’d loops too....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do you augment your measurements/twists?

I assume you take the length x2 cutting strand count in half. 


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## PowerLineman83

patches2565 said:


> How do you augment your measurements/twists?
> 
> I assume you take the length x2 cutting strand count in half.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Yep, layup length for buss cable x 2 + .375.

The last little bit accounts for the post once you fold it. This may vary depending on your techniques and your particular jig. The above “formula” is what I use and it should get you really close.

I will say that this method isn’t for everyone. The reason I like it is because I can close my yoke loops before twisting. Once I’ve twisted abs stretched, I serve for the base of the yoke/roller guard and the end serving and I’m done. No fiddling with untwisting the yoke legs and closing those loops once I’m done.


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## patches2565

PowerLineman83 said:


> Yep, layup length for buss cable x 2 + .375.
> 
> The last little bit accounts for the post once you fold it. This may vary depending on your techniques and your particular jig. The above “formula” is what I use and it should get you really close.
> 
> I will say that this method isn’t for everyone. The reason I like it is because I can close my yoke loops before twisting. Once I’ve twisted abs stretched, I serve for the base of the yoke/roller guard and the end serving and I’m done. No fiddling with untwisting the yoke legs and closing those loops once I’m done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm gonna definitely try this. Thank you.

I seen that butch Baker does this. I think that's who it is

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## PowerLineman83

patches2565 said:


> I'm gonna definitely try this. Thank you.
> 
> I seen that butch Baker does this. I think that's who it is
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Perhaps. There are several builders I can think of that do. A lot do not. 

My personal bows usually get solid color strings or at least cables. It’s faster for me and I like how they turn out.

Do what works for you! 


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----------



## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> If you're talking about my original pinstripe instructions, disregard those. That's the biggest problem with a forum like this. You can't edit instructions as things evolve and processes get better and more streamlined.
> 
> For a 24 strand buss cable, I'd do it this way. Lay out 10 primary color strands and tie off those tag ends at the post that will have the yoke loop. Lay out 2 of the pinstripe tag ends starting them at the bottom loop post and do not cut off the second tag end from the spool (meaning tie off the first tag end of the pinstripe and leave the other attached to the spool and tie it off). Finish the yoke end loop with the primary color tag ends. Now untie the pinstripe tag end that's still connected to the spool and lay down another wrap, this time cutting the tag end off the spool at the bottom loop post. Lay out the 10 other primary color strands with those tag ends at the yoke loop post and now finish the yoke loop post and then use the tag ends of the pinstripe to finish the bottom loop. So the layout would be 10-4-10 but will go down like 10-2-2-10 but with only 3 sets of tags.
> 
> You could lay out the 4 strands of pinstripe and tie off the tag ends, cut them and then finish the yoke loop with only 2 of the pinstripe strands getting covered but you'd have the second pinstripe loop in the way. If you want a 2 strand pinstripe, lay out 10-2-12, still putting the pinstripe tag ends at the bottom loop end.
> 
> Here's how I separate the pinstripes with golf tees now. Post #1385 on this page. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56
> 
> Forgot to mention that you can't do a 26 strand buss cable without having an odd number of strands in the yoke legs, leaving a single tag end at one end, or you'd have to have uneven strand counts in the yoke legs, 12 in one and 14 in the other.


You wouldn't happen to have pictures for this would you? 

So you lay the first color and secure the tags

Then you do one full loop of pinstripe on the other end securing both tag ends but cutting one (then I assume I do the first yoke loop including the first pinstripe wrap).

Then I do one more wrap of pinstripe and cut and secure the tags.

Then I add the second color securing the wraps at the yoke end and serve (using the other pinstripe wrap) 

Then serve the bottom loop with available tags.


Sound about right? 



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## bear bows

bear bows said:


> them strings looking there patches
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


that was supposed to say those strings looking great patches 


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## bear bows

this is the split bus cable for my br 33 first attempt at building any 


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## mattmann

Subbed for info 


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## patches2565

bear bows said:


> View attachment 6639447
> this is the split bus cable for my br 33 first attempt at building any
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Pretty clean. Gonna look nice on that bow

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## bear bows

thanks yeah think it would look better if did the rest like that then they’d all match what you think of clear serving think i might do that for the anarchy’s cables put halo .007 black on them it works guess need to measure and make sure will fit roller guard ok


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## patches2565

bear bows said:


> thanks yeah think it would look better if did the rest like that then they’d all match what you think of clear serving think i might do that for the anarchy’s cables put halo .007 black on them it works guess need to measure and make sure will fit roller guard ok
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I love clear serving. I see yours and like it. I just picked some up so I hope I can get it tight enough to show my colors which are going to be awesome.

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> You wouldn't happen to have pictures for this would you?
> 
> So you lay the first color and secure the tags
> 
> Then you do one full loop of pinstripe on the other end *securing both tag ends but cutting one* (then I assume I do the first yoke loop including the first pinstripe wrap).
> 
> Secure the strand that's still on the spool but don't cut it. That way you can do another wrap and end up with 3 sets of tag ends, one for each loop.
> 
> Then I do one more wrap of pinstripe and cut and secure the tags.
> 
> Then I add the second color securing the wraps at the yoke end and serve (*using the other pinstripe wrap*)
> 
> Don't use the tag ends for the pinstripe to do the yoke loop, those will be at the bottom loop post. You will cover the pinstripe wrap if that's what you're saying.
> 
> Then serve the bottom loop with available tags.
> 
> 
> Sound about right?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


My reply in red.


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## patches2565

Thank you huntinsker

I had to draw it out but I got it.

Disregard top drawing. Might look like scribble but makes sense to me









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## hicktownbowman

Looking for a little current knowledge

I’ve been building a few sets of string on a baker fixed 4 post system, and I like using the 4 post and making served end loops. Made a few good sets had a couple bad strings (peep rotation issues) 

Main question is build length formula right now I use the baker spread sheet, but I tend to get varying results mostly come out to long. Can anyone give me some insight on how to better manipulate this spread sheet to give me more consistent results or is there a better/different formula I can use?

I know many things can affect the ended length but I’m willing to try different methods and I want to start with this. 

This is my current settings










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## warrenc1

hicktownbowman said:


> Looking for a little current knowledge
> 
> I’ve been building a few sets of string on a baker fixed 4 post system, and I like using the 4 post and making served end loops. Made a few good sets had a couple bad strings (peep rotation issues)
> 
> Main question is build length formula right now I use the baker spread sheet, but I tend to get varying results mostly come out to long. Can anyone give me some insight on how to better manipulate this spread sheet to give me more consistent results or is there a better/different formula I can use?
> 
> I know many things can affect the ended length but I’m willing to try different methods and I want to start with this.
> 
> This is my current settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just take my finished length - 7.75” (post width) for my initial setting and divide my finished length by 1.25 - 1.5 for twists. This has worked well for me especially on mid-length strings which I build most (Hoyts). I also start about an 1/16”-1/8” short or long depending on if its a Hoyt CC or BC respectively but thats more of a manufacturer estimation error than anything. I did not have good luck with the spreadsheet when I went to a 4 post set up and ended up with a few strings off far enough that I didnt feel comfortable fixing with a large amount of twists.


----------



## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> Looking for a little current knowledge
> 
> I’ve been building a few sets of string on a baker fixed 4 post system, and I like using the 4 post and making served end loops. Made a few good sets had a couple bad strings (peep rotation issues)
> 
> Main question is build length formula right now I use the baker spread sheet, but I tend to get varying results mostly come out to long. Can anyone give me some insight on how to better manipulate this spread sheet to give me more consistent results or is there a better/different formula I can use?
> 
> I know many things can affect the ended length but I’m willing to try different methods and I want to start with this.
> 
> This is my current settings
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Manipulate your formula to shorten your initial post setting. So the "0.011" number, make that smaller. The smaller that number, the shorter your initial post setting will be. Adjust the number until you decrease the initial post setting by as much as you've ended up long on the strings you've made.


----------



## nestly

hicktownbowman said:


> Looking for a little current knowledge
> 
> I’ve been building a few sets of string on a baker fixed 4 post system, and I like using the 4 post and making served end loops. Made a few good sets had a couple bad strings (peep rotation issues)
> 
> Main question is build length formula right now I use the baker spread sheet, but I tend to get varying results mostly come out to long. Can anyone give me some insight on how to better manipulate this spread sheet to give me more consistent results or is there a better/different formula I can use?
> 
> I know many things can affect the ended length but I’m willing to try different methods and I want to start with this.


Strand tension while you're laying up the string will affect the final length. The tighter you make the strands while laying up, the less it's going to elongate when you tension it up. You also want to make sure you're not using too much tension during lay up because depending on your jig, it will flex your posts and the first strands you wrap will not be as tight as the last.


----------



## Kjsmith

Great idea 


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## servingspinner

nestly said:


> Strand tension while you're laying up the string will affect the final length. The tighter you make the strands while laying up, the less it's going to elongate when you tension it up. You also want to make sure you're not using too much tension during lay up because depending on your jig, it will flex your posts and the first strands you wrap will not be as tight as the last.


If you got that much flex in your arms, you need better equipment

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


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## nestly

servingspinner said:


> If you got that much flex in your arms, you need better equipment


Every wrap increases the tension on the posts. I've yet to see a string jig that can't be flexed. Even a few thousandths flex means the last wrap has greater tension than the first.


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## servingspinner

The operative words were "that much" lol
Sorry for not being specific enough. I found years ago the trick is to let off the pressure on each wrap, after the first, so it doesn't keep increasing the pressure on your posts. Of course I don't do tag ends and I can stretch my bundle before serving starts.

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## caspian

I've only even had to try to stagger wrap tension like that on very flexible jigs. with a rigid jig you can just lay up the string with equal tension, and put 75lb or so on it for 10 minutes before starting the loops to let everything equalise.


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## automan26

If you are using an El-Cheap-O type jig, it is easy to lock the posts in place so the posts will not move with added strand tensions. On the head without the spring, simply tighten the two nuts against each other and lock that post in place. On the head with the spring, simply tighten the nut behind the spring until you get around 200# tension. Start winding your strands and everything will stay put until the added tension of the strands exceeds 200# (which aint happen'n ever). 


Automan


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## nestly

servingspinner;110891964 3 said:


> The operative words were "that much" lol
> Sorry for not being specific enough. I found years ago the trick is to let off the pressure on each wrap, after the first, so it doesn't keep increasing the pressure on your posts. Of course I don't do tag ends and I can stretch my bundle before serving starts.


That's also why I said "depending on your jig" and offered a warning about laying up with too much tension. I made the video below in response to someone that didn't believe stress on the jig increases with every wrap during layup.. THere's a lot of variations and individual techniques that can be detrimental to good quality strings until/unless you know about them so you can avoid them.


----------



## NoviceAddicted

*keeping strings on cams*

This may be nit picking but, would like to hear different methods or cheap tools to help keep cams in place, and or prevent having the string come off the other cam while stringing to other cam, while putting strings on a compound bow. I only use press to put on new strings and tune my own bows so don't do that often. I don't know, small clamp system? Tried golf tees. Or put strings all in on one cam and then pull down to other cam (just want to make sure I keep twists the same). I'm sure I will get some good advice here, Thanks.


----------



## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> This may be nit picking but, would like to hear different methods or cheap tools to help keep cams in place, and or prevent having the string come off the other cam while stringing to other cam, while putting strings on a compound bow. I only use press to put on new strings and tune my own bows so don't do that often. I don't know, small clamp system? Tried golf tees. Or put strings all in on one cam and then pull down to other cam (just want to make sure I keep twists the same). I'm sure I will get some good advice here, Thanks.


Don't take the whole set off all at once. Remove the buss cable and replace the buss cable, remove the old control cable and replace the control cable, remove the old string and replace the string. You can also use a bungee cord to run from one cam to the other if you have convenient places to hook it. Doesn't have to be super tight at all. Also painters tape works well. Tape from the limb to the cam.


----------



## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> Don't take the whole set off all at once. Remove the buss cable and replace the buss cable, remove the old control cable and replace the control cable, remove the old string and replace the string. You can also use a bungee cord to run from one cam to the other if you have convenient places to hook it. Doesn't have to be super tight at all. Also painters tape works well. Tape from the limb to the cam.


Thanks a lot Huntinsker!


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## automan26

*Beating the Bumps*

Many of us (including myself) have had times when we were plagued by those nasty bumps that occasionally appear in our string once the jig tension is backed off. That bump has absolutely no effect on string performance and once even the slightest tension is applied to the string, Mr. Bump vanishes. Still, when that bump appears it would be nice to get rid of it, but it seems that there is nothing that can be done to make it go away.

Today I built a cable for a friend and got distracted and out of sequence with my build and two of those bumps appeared. I decided that today I was going to whip that little sucker once and for all. I used a hair dryer to warm the string just enough to soften the wax in the area of the bump, then used my fingers to massage the area of the bump. As I rubbed the string I could feel a kink deep within the string so I kept massaging and rubbing until I had totally flattened the string around the bump and kept rubbing and massaging until the kink disappeared. It took a bit of rubbing, but it worked. I tensioned the string again to around 100# and GENTLY burnished it just enough to restore the roundness to the string. Next I ran it up to 300# for a very sort while then backed off all the tension, slackening the string on the jig. I was very pleased with the results; nasty Mr. Bump had left the building and the string looks perfect.



If you get the bumps simply warm the string gently using a hair dryer, then message the area of the bump until you feel the kink vanish and it should do the trick. Don't worry about flattening the twist out of the string in the area of the bump, when under tension again the string will naturally restore the twists you rubbed out.

Automan


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## lab32

For me bump means string is twisted more than it wants. Thereby in this particular segment inner strands are longer than outer. And inner strands want to break out like an ALIEN. How to completely get rid of bumps? When I slowly release tension (100# -> 0#), I watch the flags in middle of the string. If they start to rotate it means that i have to get back to 100# and remove a twist or more. OK, how to do it faster. I hold the string with my fingers near the loop. So I can feel if it wants to rotate and let it.


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## caspian

I will try the hair dryer trick next time I get a bump, thanks.

limiting/removing the pre-twisting burnishing step has largely eliminated bumps for me, although it's still necessary to stop colour bleed with some combinations.

unfortunately I don't see removing twists as a solution, as you're changing the length of the string you worked so hard to get to exactly the right length. building to a slightly lower "target" twist count helps (like .6/" to .65/" instead of .75/"). also, wouldn't the inner strands be shorter than those on the outside, assuming each strands maintains its position in the bundle along the length of the string?

slowly dropping tension at the end of finishing a piece also does too, I've had strings that wanted to knot/bulge/bump badly when pulled straight off the jig that behaved much better when the tension was backed off slowly over a couple of hours. I had some concerns that it might be a sign of a dissimilar stretching within the bundle, but when it was retensioned and fitted to a bow following a full 24 hour relax, there was no signs of creep. only works if you can afford to build at leisure, though.


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## skynight

I'm still convinced the bumps are caused by burnishing with hard serving material. I've never seen one, using mason twine.


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## caspian

that is basically what I use.


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## automan26

I use some of that thick, flo green bow fishing line.

Automan


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## lab32

When string turns out longer, say 2 twists, i tension it to maximum and add these 2 twists and 2 twists more, and leave for 15 minutes. Then remove 2 extras and release.

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## coastiehunter2

Does anyone make a good video to buy for string builders?


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## patches2565

coastiehunter2 said:


> Does anyone make a good video to buy for string builders?


Since I've been learning. Automan and huntinsker* gave been a tremendous help. If you ask them or wait for them to respond they will undoubtedly help out. Also Butch Baker has some great videos on youtube about this subject. It's what I've done and let's just say its paid off. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## B.Hunter

patches2565 said:


> Since I've been learning. Automan and huntinsker* gave been a tremendous help. If you ask them or wait for them to respond they will undoubtedly help out. Also Butch Baker has some great videos on youtube about this subject. It's what I've done and let's just say its paid off.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


patches,
I will agree-automan & Huntinsker have definitely helped more than they know. I have pm'ed Huntinsker several times with dumb questions and he's always responded. I just hope he doesn't figure out where the "ignore" button is


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## patches2565

I've probably asked one to many dumb questions. 

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## bear bows

patches2565 said:


> I've probably asked one to many dumb questions.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


sure there are more than just us that have asked stupid questions fortunately between the two they have taken the time and understanding to answer those questions and yes hopefully they never hit the ignore but on us we’d be up a s**t creek with out a paddle if it weren’t for them answering are questions many thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## caspian

there are only 2 sorts of dumb question:

(1) the ones you didn't ask, and
(2) the ones you've asked before and didn't remember the answer to.

people here give their time to help because they enjoy it. they're very generous with their experience, just respect it by using the search function and retaining what was said.


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## cmartin4807

So on a Mathews 2 cam like the halon, the cable only has one loop, or tag end. How do you tie off a 2 color string with only one loop to tag end serve? 
I have a few ideas but I’m assuming someone has something a bit more tried and true.


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## Huntinsker

cmartin4807 said:


> So on a Mathews 2 cam like the halon, the cable only has one loop, or tag end. How do you tie off a 2 color string with only one loop to tag end serve?
> I have a few ideas but I’m assuming someone has something a bit more tried and true.


Welcome. When I've made them, I finish that end like I do a pinstripe string. You can check it out here in post 1385. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56

Essentially I use my string clamp to hold the one set of tag ends forward of the post and then wrap over it most of the way. Then undo the tag ends and wrap them several wraps around half the string bundle, cover it with the primary loop color and trim flush and finish the loop as normal.


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## Huntinsker

So a former world number 2 female archer had a video on Facebook today and in the background, she had one of the jigs at the beginning of our thread! Seems cool to think that a world level archer could potentially be using strings built with our methods and collective knowledge. She's the second world level archer that I know of that's using this thread in some capacity for strings. If anyone says you can't learn to make great strings on our equipment or with our methods, know that they're good enough to perform on the world stage!


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## Binary cam man

Happy Thanksgiving!


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## automan26

Today is a day to count your blessings unless you live in Florida, then you can recount them.

Automan


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> So a former world number 2 female archer had a video on Facebook today and in the background, she had one of the jigs at the beginning of our thread! Seems cool to think that a world level archer could potentially be using strings built with our methods and collective knowledge. She's the second world level archer that I know of that's using this thread in some capacity for strings. If anyone says you can't learn to make great strings on our equipment or with our methods, know that they're good enough to perform on the world stage!


OK...Now I am totally blown away...ThanX for that post.

Automan


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## SamT

Huntinsker said:


> So a former world number 2 female archer had a video on Facebook today and in the background, she had one of the jigs at the beginning of our thread! Seems cool to think that a world level archer could potentially be using strings built with our methods and collective knowledge. She's the second world level archer that I know of that's using this thread in some capacity for strings. If anyone says you can't learn to make great strings on our equipment or with our methods, know that they're good enough to perform on the world stage!


Very cool! ...Link to FB video?

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## B.Hunter

Binary cam man said:


> Happy Thanksgiving!


Happy Thanksgiving to you and ALL you "String Builders"!!


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> Very cool! ...Link to FB video?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


https://www.facebook.com/CJG.X10/videos/191059431776541/


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## automan26

Yup, there it is, I can see it. ThanX for the link.

Automan


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## SamT

Huntinsker said:


> https://www.facebook.com/CJG.X10/videos/191059431776541/


Thanks Huntinsker! Yes indeed, looks like one similar to the one in this thread! Kudos! 

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## TenneseeArcher

Is there anywhere I can buy a steel die spring that I could just drive to get it? I have unistrut so I was wanting to go buy the rest of the parts today while I was off work, but I have no idea where to try and find one. I’m in East Tennessee if anybody knows of a place that would carry one. I thought about a valve spring, but I can’t find one rated heavy enough.


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## automan26

Not many stores carry those. Maybe Fastenall if you have one in your area.

Automan


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## TenneseeArcher

automan26 said:


> Not many stores carry those. Maybe Fastenall if you have one in your area.
> 
> Automan


I do have one pretty close thanks for the suggestion automan 


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## dbierman

TenneseeArcher said:


> Is there anywhere I can buy a steel die spring that I could just drive to get it? I have unistrut so I was wanting to go buy the rest of the parts today while I was off work, but I have no idea where to try and find one. I’m in East Tennessee if anybody knows of a place that would carry one. I thought about a valve spring, but I can’t find one rated heavy enough.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try a speed shop, they should have one rated high enough for your needs. 

Pretty sure that’s what mine is, but I don’t remember the part number. 


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## automan26

https://youtu.be/u_pGkvJTAyw

Go to 1:10 and look at the jig in the background. This is a clearer view of the jig Huntinsker showed us earlier. Crystal built the jig posted on page #1 of this thread. 

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> https://youtu.be/u_pGkvJTAyw
> 
> Go to 1:10 and look at the jig in the background. This is a clearer view of the jig Huntinsker showed us earlier. Crystal built the jig posted on page #1 of this thread.
> 
> Automan


Oh yeah no doubt from that video. She told me that she wasn't sure if it was the jig from this thread because that was her husband's department so chances are she's not the string builder but it's very cool to think that she's using strings that her husband has built using the info from all the people in this thread. Seeing world level archers using information from us "wannabes" is pretty neat.


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## caspian

a couple of my sets were on the assorted podiums at our last national target championships, and one archer at the recent your olympics was shooting them too. learned most of it by reading here and trying. incredible depth of wisdom.


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## Huntinsker

caspian said:


> a couple of my sets were on the assorted podiums at our last national target championships, and one archer at the recent your olympics was shooting them too. learned most of it by reading here and trying. incredible depth of wisdom.


That's awesome. Must feel great to have such high level archers putting faith in your work.


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## caspian

I'm pretty humbled by it, really. I try hard to make a good product for a one-man amateur, but those people put a *lot* of effort into getting where they did, and for them to trust me to not let them down is trust indeed.

again though, a lot of it flows back to the people who generously gave their knowledge here. there's a lot of collective experience going on to be leveraged.

one day I might even learn to make a Flemish twist if I have enough patience.


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## EvilGarfield

I know I want to get into string building but I havn't totally decided how I want my jig to be. I will build exclusively recurve strings but I still would like to be able to stretch them.

I think I will end up building a mix between a 4 poles jig and this one. Where I live, Unistrut beams are quite expensive. I have access to aluminum beams like those:

https://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-40x40-linear-rail/

Has anyone ever tried to build a jig with those? They have an Area moment of inertia of 81x10^(-9) m^4. 
Do I need 300 lbs for recurve strings stretching or can I get away with less?


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## cpalmer541

Thank you for sharing this!


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## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> I know I want to get into string building but I havn't totally decided how I want my jig to be. I will build exclusively recurve strings but I still would like to be able to stretch them.
> 
> I think I will end up building a mix between a 4 poles jig and this one. Where I live, Unistrut beams are quite expensive. I have access to aluminum beams like those:
> 
> https://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-40x40-linear-rail/
> 
> Has anyone ever tried to build a jig with those? They have an Area moment of inertia of 81x10^(-9) m^4.
> Do I need 300 lbs for recurve strings stretching or can I get away with less?


I've never seen anyone use that type of extruded aluminum rail to hold a string jig but if it's stiff enough, it should work. You could also try to somehow bolt it to the edge of a piece of lumber to help stiffen the strut to prevent flexing. 

For a recurve string jig, I use a 4 post jig and then stretch on my 2 post jig/stretcher. You can get away with a 3 post jig but you have to have all the tag ends at one end to serve over them all at the same time. Then you could rotate the string to serve the other loop. A 4 post jig makes it easier though. 

I stretch my recurve strings at 300lbs or higher but you probably don't need that much. The people shooting my recurve strings really like the fact that they never have to re-adjust the string for their braceheight though. I build them like I build a compound string so I twist and stretch before putting the end and center serving on. They tell me exactly how long they want the string and that's what I build for. This way, there's no time wasted with stringing the bow and shooting it in while it's stretching and stretching so they have to keep twisting it shorter. Being able to stretch to 300lbs or so also makes your servings nice and tight so you never have to worry about them coming undone.


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## kballer1

Tagged. string making.Thanks


----------



## EvilGarfield

Huntinsker said:


> I've never seen anyone use that type of extruded aluminum rail to hold a string jig but if it's stiff enough, it should work. You could also try to somehow bolt it to the edge of a piece of lumber to help stiffen the strut to prevent flexing.
> 
> For a recurve string jig, I use a 4 post jig and then stretch on my 2 post jig/stretcher. You can get away with a 3 post jig but you have to have all the tag ends at one end to serve over them all at the same time. Then you could rotate the string to serve the other loop. A 4 post jig makes it easier though.
> 
> I stretch my recurve strings at 300lbs or higher but you probably don't need that much. The people shooting my recurve strings really like the fact that they never have to re-adjust the string for their braceheight though. I build them like I build a compound string so I twist and stretch before putting the end and center serving on. They tell me exactly how long they want the string and that's what I build for. This way, there's no time wasted with stringing the bow and shooting it in while it's stretching and stretching so they have to keep twisting it shorter. Being able to stretch to 300lbs or so also makes your servings nice and tight so you never have to worry about them coming undone.


OK, thanks for the help.

So I assume you:
1) lay down your colors
2) serve the end loops without closing them
3) move the string to the 2 poles jig
4) stretch
5) chase colors, twist, chase, burnish
6) release tension somewhat
7) finish serving the loops and then center serve

Is that more or less right? 
And I guess you put less twists in a recurve string than a compound cable?


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## caspian

Huntinsker said:


> I've never seen anyone use that type of extruded aluminum rail to hold a string jig but if it's stiff enough, it should work.


it does work OK, the Australian built McVicar jig used to use this extrusion for a backbone. although it has now been changed to use unistrut because it's cheaper and easier for the customer to buy locally than ship a long piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKzf4zN7vvE


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## EvilGarfield

caspian said:


> it does work OK, the Australian built McVicar jig used to use this extrusion for a backbone. although it has now been changed to use unistrut because it's cheaper and easier for the customer to buy locally than ship a long piece.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKzf4zN7vvE


Oh th'ats amazing because I already have a large selection of beams and connectors I can use from work. I think I'll try it out then and report back to you guys once I have it finished


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> OK, thanks for the help.
> 
> So I assume you:
> 1) lay down your colors
> 2) serve the end loops without closing them
> 3) move the string to the 2 poles jig
> 4) stretch
> 5) chase colors, twist, chase, burnish
> 6) release tension somewhat
> 7) finish serving the loops and then center serve
> 
> Is that more or less right?
> And I guess you put less twists in a recurve string than a compound cable?


More or less. I serve the loops, move to the stretcher and bring up to about 150lbs or so to equalize any potential strand tension differences, "dewax" the material and then separate the strands from one another so they're not in 2 round bundles before twisting, separate colors with golf tees, twists, chase colors if necessary, stretch, burnish up and down once, relax, measure and adjust if necessary, stretch, serve, relax, take the final measurement at 100lbs and add a little wax to the string. 

I do use a looser twist rate for recurve strings than for compound.


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## EvilGarfield

Just to make sure we are on the same page,

Is the loop serving finalized (loop closed with serving) before or after you move to the 2 post jig ?

Sorry for all the questions, just making sure I understand the process correctly.


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Just to make sure we are on the same page,
> 
> Is the loop serving finalized (loop closed with serving) before or after you move to the 2 post jig ?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, just making sure I understand the process correctly.


I don't close the loops until after moving to the 2 post and twisting. I close them with the end serving. That way I can stagger the loop serving ends to allow for a smoother transition up the loop.


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## EvilGarfield

Amazing! Thanks a bunch!


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## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Amazing! Thanks a bunch!


Absolutely. Don't be sorry about your questions either. They're good questions and that's what this thread is all about. Archer's helping archer's and sharing knowledge. That's why this thread is the best thing on AT. We all genuinely enjoy being helpful and teaching others.


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## K.G.K.

Im building a set of strings for a buddies new Halon Vertix. I dont think there are measured specs out yet. 

If I use the original strings for measuring does the string and cables need to relax before measuring at 100# tension for proper length? I thought I would lightly press the bow for a while and that way I can measure the strings and then put them right back on while I build new ones.

The bow is well tuned so I assume this will be the most accurate way to get proper string and serving dimensions? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Im building a set of strings for a buddies new Halon Vertix. I dont think there are measured specs out yet.
> 
> If I use the original strings for measuring does the string and cables need to relax before measuring at 100# tension for proper length? I thought I would lightly press the bow for a while and that way I can measure the strings and then put them right back on while I build new ones.
> 
> The bow is well tuned so I assume this will be the most accurate way to get proper string and serving dimensions?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


No need to let them relax. Off the bow and right on the jig for a measurement. Mark the cams with pencil lines paralleling the limbs so you know you have it right where it was before even starting your tune process after the change.


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## nestly

EvilGarfield said:


> Oh th'ats amazing because I already have a large selection of beams and connectors I can use from work. I think I'll try it out then and report back to you guys once I have it finished


I use aluminum T-Slot for a lot of things, including my draw board. The variety of connectors, brackets, and accessories is amazing. Personally, if I was using it for a stretcher, I'd get the 1-1/2 x 3" (40mm x 80) and use it edgeways (similar to back-to-back uni-strut) and then consider using both sides, one side for a jig and the other for the twister/stretcher (or maybe even all 4 sides). Here's my flippable strut jig/stretcher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQTdnwoWOHM


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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> No need to let them relax. Off the bow and right on the jig for a measurement. Mark the cams with pencil lines paralleling the limbs so you know you have it right where it was before even starting your tune process after the change.


Huge thanks!

Using Fury for the first time. 

28 strands for string and 28 or 30 for cables?

Do you know how many for the yoke legs?

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Huge thanks!
> 
> Using Fury for the first time.
> 
> 28 strands for string and 28 or 30 for cables?
> 
> Do you know how many for the yoke legs?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I do 28 on strings and 32 for cables but 30 would work too. 24 strands for the yoke with .014 Halo works well for other Mathews bows like that but I'm not certain about the Vertix and if they've changed the ring at all. I can't imagine they would so that should work fine.


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> I do 28 on strings and 32 for cables but 30 would work too. 24 strands for the yoke with .014 Halo works well for other Mathews bows like that but I'm not certain about the Vertix and if they've changed the ring at all. I can't imagine they would so that should work fine.


Thanks again

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## EvilGarfield

nestly said:


> I use aluminum T-Slot for a lot of things, including my draw board. The variety of connectors, brackets, and accessories is amazing. Personally, if I was using it for a stretcher, I'd get the 1-1/2 x 3" (40mm x 80) and use it edgeways (similar to back-to-back uni-strut) and then consider using both sides, one side for a jig and the other for the twister/stretcher (or maybe even all 4 sides). Here's my flippable strut jig/stretcher
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQTdnwoWOHM


The flip thing is a very neat idea! I will still put stretcher and 4 poles jig on the same side since plan to bolt it to a work bench when in use. But I like the concept.
In the video it's not a t-slot though, is it? 

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## K.G.K.

Is determining the prelength layout formula for Fury different than 452x? 

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Is determining the prelength layout formula for Fury different than 452x?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


You'll find that with Fury, you won't get as much movement as with 452x and will need to lengthen your initial starting length. How much of course is kind of a trial and error thing but I've never seen someone not come up short with Fury if they use their 452x formula. Some guys are seeing 1/4" differences on the longer pieces


----------



## NoviceAddicted

I'm sure there have been postings about in thread so apologies up front but have a question for the professional level, Huntinsker, Automan and commercial string builders who do Tag Ends by hand. With a no flex setup after I have secured my tag ends behind post running a few times, locking in I would like to know if you prefer leaving string at same pressure, tweaking pressure on string up a little or increasing pressure on string to a certain weight pressure to finish running Tags, but before bringing strings together locking together (if you use that method). I have used both and wondering if anyone has found one method to be superior. I'm not that great at explaining so an example of what you might tell me is, I.E after locking my tag ends behind post, I bring pressure up to 50 lbs to run tags then reduce pressure on jig to 25 lbs to lock both sides of strings together (if using that method) or I don't change string jig pressure at all, just run tags tight etc. Thanks!


----------



## automan26

I myself never mess with the tension on the string while serving the loops with the tags. I find it easier to wrap the tags without any extra tension on the string. After locking the tag ends behind the post I do not adjust the pressure. I leave it where it was when I started.

Automan


----------



## patches2565

I might try the 50 pound method for poops and giggles. But I mainly leave the pressure as is when the string is laid up

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## NoviceAddicted

automan26 said:


> I myself never mess with the tension on the string while serving the loops with the tags. I find it easier to wrap the tags without any extra tension on the string. After locking the tag ends behind the post I do not adjust the pressure. I leave it where it was when I started.
> 
> Automan


Thanks Automan!


----------



## NoviceAddicted

patches2565 said:


> I might try the 50 pound method for poops and giggles. But I mainly leave the pressure as is when the string is laid up
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Thanks patches!


----------



## Huntinsker

I don't increase tension either, other than pulling the slack out of the tag ends. I pull the slack out, do a few wraps, go to the other end, pull the slack, finish that loop and then finish the first loop.


----------



## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> I don't increase tension either, other than pulling the slack out of the tag ends. I pull the slack out, do a few wraps, go to the other end, pull the slack, finish that loop and then finish the first loop.


Thanks Huntinsker! I had read somewhere about increasing pressure, did it on one set of strings, seemed good but when tuning bow, and not even sure if it's related, but seemed like it may be, in one spot on control cable from twisting manipulating cable tuning, it came out a little, no biggie but thinking because I served under pressure.


----------



## K.G.K.

I dont mean to interrupt momentum on the current topic, but does anyone have a method of cleaning new string once installed? I'm using some flo yellow serving and there are a couple of dirty spots. Nothing major but I would like to freshen them up predelivery.

Thanks!

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> I dont mean to interrupt momentum on the current topic, but does anyone have a method of cleaning new string once installed? I'm using some flo yellow serving and there are a couple of dirty spots. Nothing major but I would like to freshen them up predelivery.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Might try a clarifier or mineral oil. Never really had that problem so I can't say for sure.


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> Might try a clarifier or mineral oil. Never really had that problem so I can't say for sure.


Thanks, it's really not an issue but thanks. Might give it a try. What do you recommend as clarifyer? 

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Thanks, it's really not an issue but thanks. Might give it a try. What do you recommend as clarifyer?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I know a ton of guys who use Black Magic Tire Wet with great results and it's way cheaper than any serving specific clarifier.


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## jpsissom3204

Depending on where you live i was able to find a special springs distributer by me. If you are still looking i would look there. The one i ordered was B40-051 which i believe should provide me with everything that i need. There is a national distributer located in antioch, Moeller Precision Tool South.


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## jpsissom3204

Starting the build of my own jig, will post when everything is done. I have made a few changes and have a few ideas that i am hoping will help with performance. I plan to use a oil embedded flanged sleeve bearing to see if that will help improve the performance when compressing the string. I am using a gate hook bolt for the post that the strings will be connecting to, initial plan was to use as it but the posts are a little to thick to be used for the loops. new plan is to drill into the posts where i will be placing some spring pins, this will limit the need to tap anything, However you could also tap them for the grade 8 1/4" x 2" hex bolts that are called for in this thread. i was able to find a local company that i could order a die spring from so if you live in the metro detroit area you can get a hold of Moeller Precision Tool in wixom they distribute and sell die springs the one i got from them was a B40-051 from special springs. Their part number on that die spring is RML150-200 also special springs has distributers in a few other states as well so if you are looking for a local place to try and get a spring i would start there. I tried to find another spring initially from an auto parts store and the one i got initially came from a performance engine store but i was only able to generate about 200-250 pounds of force before the spring coils began to touch.


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## jpsissom3204

I have been reading through this forum and taking in everything i have read, i should have some pictures of my finished threads soon!! its been a fun learning experience so far! While i was reading i saw a tool that someone had created from pulling tightly without the string material cutting up your fingers and you were also talking about other options! i just want to let you guys know about this tool that is people who is braided fishing line use a lot. it's a ring that goes on your finger that has a concave face on the outside of it and some type of rubber to grip onto materials. Saves my fingers when working with braided materials. It is called a Daiichi Seiko Finger Saver you should be able to find them at tackle warehouse and they are 8.99


----------



## automan26

That looks like a great idea. ThanX for posting, I'll look into one of those.

Automan


----------



## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> I know a ton of guys who use Black Magic Tire Wet with great results and it's way cheaper than any serving specific clarifier.


Cool

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## K.G.K.

Huntinsker said:


> I know a ton of guys who use Black Magic Tire Wet with great results and it's way cheaper than any serving specific clarifier.


Is clarifyer primarily used on white (or clear serving) to allow string color to show through?

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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Is clarifyer primarily used on white (or clear serving) to allow string color to show through?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Yes


----------



## patches2565

Work in progress. I didnt do a great job pulling the pinstripe out but live and learn. Anyone know of a way I can get the green out in the spots it's not showing well? I was planning relaxing the string and digging through it and going from there.









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## jpsissom3204

Here we go first string done! For a Mathews halon x. I think it came out pretty good let me know what you think.










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## patches2565

jpsissom3204 said:


> Here we go first string done! For a Mathews halon x. I think it came out pretty good let me know what you think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great job man! 

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Work in progress. I didnt do a great job pulling the pinstripe out but live and learn. Anyone know of a way I can get the green out in the spots it's not showing well? I was planning relaxing the string and digging through it and going from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Put the string on the jig and put a scrap piece of your green string material around the pinstripes. Take the tension up to 100-125lbs and "chase" the pinstripes by pulling the scrap piece under the pinstripe down the length of the string. You may need to work it back and forth with a little upward pressure in some areas where it's buried to bring it up to the top. When I make pinstripe sets, I put those scrap pieces in before taking the golf tees out just in case I need to chase them.


----------



## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> Put the string on the jig and put a scrap piece of your green string material around the pinstripes. Take the tension up to 100-125lbs and "chase" the pinstripes by pulling the scrap piece under the pinstripe down the length of the string. You may need to work it back and forth with a little upward pressure in some areas where it's buried to bring it up to the top. When I make pinstripe sets, I put those scrap pieces in before taking the golf tees out just in case I need to chase them.


Yeah I did that Haha. I think I didnt separate them properly so I'm playing catch up

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## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> Put the string on the jig and put a scrap piece of your green string material around the pinstripes. Take the tension up to 100-125lbs and "chase" the pinstripes by pulling the scrap piece under the pinstripe down the length of the string. You may need to work it back and forth with a little upward pressure in some areas where it's buried to bring it up to the top. When I make pinstripe sets, I put those scrap pieces in before taking the golf tees out just in case I need to chase them.


Worked like a charm thank you

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## automan26

jpsissom3204 said:


> Here we go first string done! For a Mathews halon x. I think it came out pretty good let me know what you think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very nice. Your loops look great and your serving is right on the money. 60x's days are numbered. Lol

Automan


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## jpsissom3204

automan26 said:


> Very nice. Your loops look great and your serving is right on the money. 60x's days are numbered. Lol
> 
> Automan


Thanks lol, I’m a very detailed oriented person and I have been tying my own flies for fly fishing for years so thread control is something I am used to. Also if anyone uses the bear paw serving tool I initially had some issues with it being consistent. I did two things which helped a lot. I lubricated the spacer so it would spin more freely and I put some wax on the threads of the bolt so I didn’t move the nut as much when I was serving. Two things that helped me get a little more consistent pressure but it’s not perfect. 


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## K.G.K.

jpsissom3204 said:


> Thanks lol, I’m a very detailed oriented person and I have been tying my own flies for fly fishing for years so thread control is something I am used to. Also if anyone uses the bear paw serving tool I initially had some issues with it being consistent. I did two things which helped a lot. I lubricated the spacer so it would spin more freely and I put some wax on the threads of the bolt so I didn’t move the nut as much when I was serving. Two things that helped me get a little more consistent pressure but it’s not perfect.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I never could get the bear claw to work consistently. I sold it and bought the Beiter bobbin and love it. Worth the extra money in the long run. 

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## jpsissom3204

K.G.K. said:


> I never could get the bear claw to work consistently. I sold it and bought the Beiter bobbin and love it. Worth the extra money in the long run.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Yeah that’s my plan but just not in the budget at the moment. Probably after the holidays 


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## B.Hunter

Question about serving material-I have used the Spectra (Spiderwire & off brands) with good success. My question is, I found some older spools of Stren Kevlar Powerbraid in yellow color hidden in my fishing tackle, would this work for serving ? It does not melt/ball up like Spectra braid. Sizes are 35 lb/.016 & 15 lb/.011


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## Huntinsker

B.Hunter said:


> Question about serving material-I have used the Spectra (Spiderwire & off brands) with good success. My question is, I found some older spools of Stren Kevlar Powerbraid in yellow color hidden in my fishing tackle, would this work for serving ? It does not melt/ball up like Spectra braid. Sizes are 35 lb/.016 & 15 lb/.011


Pretty much any material will "work" for serving. It's just not certain how well it will work. Kevlar is very tough stuff with very little stretch and it doesn't melt, as you mentioned. I know it's used for stitching heavy duty work clothing together and is supposed to handle abrasion well. I'd imagine it'd work fine for serving. Only one way to find out really.


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## B.Hunter

Thanks Huntinsker, I'm going to give it a whirl. I'm thinking of waxing it to get a better grip when I end with back serving.


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## patches2565

I tried starting my end serving from the loop end inward. I found I was able to really snug it up and i enjoy finishing with back serving. Worked for me. I forgot to take a pic of the loop but I have a cable and string left yet









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## jpsissom3204

I have a sample of Brownell Rampage coming in the mail, anyone ever try that material before? 


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## patches2565

I'm in the process of making a set. I've used 452x and plan to go with 24 strand all around. 

I used .014 serving on the buss end serving and plan to use it on the control and string. Any issue with this? 

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## Huntinsker

jpsissom3204 said:


> I have a sample of Brownell Rampage coming in the mail, anyone ever try that material before?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't but it's essentially the equivalent of Fury but with SK99 Dyneema and will replace Fury once all the discontinued SK90 Dyneema is used up. Should be able to go 28-34 strands depending on what finished diameter you're looking for. If it were me, I'd probably go 28 on strings and 32 on cables like you'd do with Fury.


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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> I'm in the process of making a set. I've used 452x and plan to go with 24 strand all around.
> 
> I used .014 serving on the buss end serving and plan to use it on the control and string. Any issue with this?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Can't think of one. I've done that quite a few times. I used .014" Powergrip for the center serving but that was with GT HD Pin nocks which require a little smaller finished diameter. Just make sure your nocks fit.


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## jpsissom3204

Huntinsker said:


> I haven't but it's essentially the equivalent of Fury but with SK99 Dyneema and will replace Fury once all the discontinued SK90 Dyneema is used up. Should be able to go 28-34 strands depending on what finished diameter you're looking for. If it were me, I'd probably go 28 on strings and 32 on cables like you'd do with Fury.


Okay thanks, kind of what I thought! I will let you guys know what I think about the material all though I have only worked with 452x but that’s basically the Valhalla of string material for most people! 


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## Huntinsker

jpsissom3204 said:


> Okay thanks, kind of what I thought! I will let you guys know what I think about the material all though I have only worked with 452x but that’s basically the Valhalla of string material for most people!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're going to love that Brownell material to build with. Much cleaner and nicer to build with than pretty much anything BCY puts out. The dyed wax that Brownell uses is just the right consistency to make a string finish perfectly. Also expect to come out short on length if you build with your 452x formula. Most come up 1/8-1/4" short depending on length so you may want to add a bit to your initial post setting.


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## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> Can't think of one. I've done that quite a few times. I used .014" Powergrip for the center serving but that was with GT HD Pin nocks which require a little smaller finished diameter. Just make sure your nocks fit.


Thanks. I just set it in the groove of my cam and it's okay. 

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## jpsissom3204

Huntinsker said:


> You're going to love that Brownell material to build with. Much cleaner and nicer to build with than pretty much anything BCY puts out. The dyed wax that Brownell uses is just the right consistency to make a string finish perfectly. Also expect to come out short on length if you build with your 452x formula. Most come up 1/8-1/4" short depending on length so you may want to add a bit to your initial post setting.


Yeah I am measuring off 5/16 inch posts so I think I have been long so it should be probably pretty good. I will just go with it as is and use a slightly higher or more average twist rate instead of the .66 that way I can lengthen it if need be. That sound like a good approach? 


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## Huntinsker

jpsissom3204 said:


> Yeah I am measuring off 5/16 inch posts so I think I have been long so it should be probably pretty good. I will just go with it as is and use a slightly higher or more average twist rate instead of the .66 that way I can lengthen it if need be. That sound like a good approach?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Should work just fine.


----------



## Hunter Hr.

Guys.. Who has the will sold me at least one spool of bow string material.. I made my string jig and want to try build string.. I am looking for brownell fury.. Flo or green..


----------



## jrm81

Wow. This thread really escalated while I was gone. I took a nearly 5 year hiatus from the site and it looks like everyone is building strings now. From what I see, the trend seems to have gone away from tag ends to serving the end loops. I might need to upgrade my old BAP jig to one of his newer ones. Mine is a classic...Also looks like there is some new material out there in Rampage and X99. How is everyone liking the two compared to Fury and X? 

On a side note, I'm selling a fair amount of my Fury in the classifieds if anyone's interested.


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## jpsissom3204

Hunter Hr. said:


> Guys.. Who has the will sold me at least one spool of bow string material.. I made my string jig and want to try build string.. I am looking for brownell fury.. Flo or green..


If you call Brownell they will send you a sample spool of rampage. Which is a new and improved fury. 


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## patches2565

I'm looking at putting nocks on my string and the plans call for red nocks but then again it also didnt specify the type of string material. I'm thinking of going for red. Don't know if it matters. 

I'm making 24 strand 452x with .014 serving

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> I'm looking at putting nocks on my string and the plans call for red nocks but then again it also didnt specify the type of string material. I'm thinking of going for red. Don't know if it matters.
> 
> I'm making 24 strand 452x with .014 serving
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


If you know what they're using at the factory, might as well use those but I've not seen much change in a few grains difference. I've also had good luck with TPU speed nocks.


----------



## Logan1021

Does anybody know of a serving material, other than BCY Halo .014 in white, that will give a GOOD CLEAR finished product? Curious if maybe Powergrip in .014 in white or maybe even 3D in white might work as well? Others?


----------



## Huntinsker

Logan1021 said:


> Does anybody know of a serving material, other than BCY Halo .014 in white, that will give a GOOD CLEAR finished product? Curious if maybe Powergrip in .014 in white or maybe even 3D in white might work as well? Others?


Powergrip is coated so I doubt it'll go very clear. 3d goes very clear but it's not a great serving for cable ends. Works okay on string ends though.


----------



## Logan1021

Huntinsker said:


> Logan1021 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anybody know of a serving material, other than BCY Halo .014 in white, that will give a GOOD CLEAR finished product? Curious if maybe Powergrip in .014 in white or maybe even 3D in white might work as well? Others?
> 
> 
> 
> Powergrip is coated so I doubt it'll go very clear. 3d goes very clear but it's not a great serving for cable ends. Works okay on string ends though.
Click to expand...

I've never used 3D for cable ends, what's the issue with it? I would assume it doesn't hold up to some of the more severe wear points that cables often have? Or?


----------



## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> If you know what they're using at the factory, might as well use those but I've not seen much change in a few grains difference. I've also had good luck with TPU speed nocks.


Did you fine that when installing TPU's that it separates the loop a little? I have some here. I'm planning on using one per cam and going from there

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## Huntinsker

Logan1021 said:


> I've never used 3D for cable ends, what's the issue with it? I would assume it doesn't hold up to some of the more severe wear points that cables often have? Or?


Yeah it doesn't hold up well. It flattens, separates and cuts through much more quickly than braided materials, especially on high pressure areas like around draw length modules.


----------



## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Did you fine that when installing TPU's that it separates the loop a little? I have some here. I'm planning on using one per cam and going from there
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Yeah that's the biggest problem with them. You can mitigate that by using some dish soap or something like crossbow rail lube to help them slide over the loop easier.


----------



## patches2565

Good idea I'll give it a shot.


Huntinsker said:


> Yeah that's the biggest problem with them. You can mitigate that by using some dish soap or something like crossbow rail lube to help them slide over the loop easier.


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----------



## skynight

patches2565 said:


> Did you fine that when installing TPU's that it separates the loop a little? I have some here. I'm planning on using one per cam and going from there
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


My personal experience with tpu speed nocks was very poor. I cannot recommend them. Don't stay in position and are not durable.


----------



## MandK

skynight said:


> My personal experience with tpu speed nocks was very poor. I cannot recommend them. Don't stay in position and are not durable.


Have to agree, they crack full length and then start moving. Gave up on them.


----------



## Huntinsker

skynight said:


> My personal experience with tpu speed nocks was very poor. I cannot recommend them. Don't stay in position and are not durable.





MandK said:


> Have to agree, they crack full length and then start moving. Gave up on them.


In the earlier days of the TPUs, the rubber formula was a little stiff. They've been re-formulated to have a softer rubber and don't have near the problems that they did have. I've had a set on one of my bows for 3 years with no problems. A little dab of superglue to hold them in place and they've been good to go. That said, I like brass over the TPUs.


----------



## hicktownbowman

Okay needing some pointers, trying to build a string for a Mathews Creed XS (solo cam). Two attempts both with outrageous rotation (peep twist). Strings I’ve built for binary cam bows have came great and very stable but this extra long string is giving me trouble. 

BCY X using a 4 post jig, twist, stretch for 3-4 hours, relax for a hour plus and trying to be especially careful not to induce twist while serving. 

Any feedback of things to try or particularly watch for when building these extra long strings? Thanks! 


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## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> Okay needing some pointers, trying to build a string for a Mathews Creed XS (solo cam). Two attempts both with outrageous rotation (peep twist). Strings I’ve built for binary cam bows have came great and very stable but this extra long string is giving me trouble.
> 
> BCY X using a 4 post jig, twist, stretch for 3-4 hours, relax for a hour plus and trying to be especially careful not to induce twist while serving.
> 
> Any feedback of things to try or particularly watch for when building these extra long strings? Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Serving tension needs to be consistent and not too tight. Strings aren't likely to separate around the cam or idler wheel so on long runs like you'll find on Mathews single cam strings, I back the tension on my bobbin down a bit and make sure the string it stretched tight and use clamps to keep the bundle from twisting at all. If you're not getting inconsistent bundle tension during layup, it's most likely a problem with serving tension. Could also be serving direction but if you're doing other strings without issue, it's not likely.


----------



## rapids

Question about the initial 300# stretching time before twisting and serving compound strings/cables.....what is the recommended time? I’ve seen times anywhere from 20 minutes to letting the string stretch overnight. In other words, is there any benefit to stretching for a longer period, or is this just overkill? Also, do different string materials, 452x, BCY x, BCY X99, 8190, etc, have different stretching times? Right now I will be using 8190 as I have been using this for making traditional Flemish twist strings. Thanks


----------



## patches2565

Anyone start with splitting the string like this?

https://youtu.be/3smEdB-Mk8c

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## automan26

patches2565 said:


> Anyone start with splitting the string like this?
> 
> https://youtu.be/3smEdB-Mk8c
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I have two similar tools and I do not recommend using them on a tensioned string. It is too easy to cut one of the strands in the center part of the string. If the bow is pressed they work fine.

Automan


----------



## PowerLineman83

rapids said:


> Question about the initial 300# stretching time before twisting and serving compound strings/cables.....what is the recommended time? I’ve seen times anywhere from 20 minutes to letting the string stretch overnight. In other words, is there any benefit to stretching for a longer period, or is this just overkill? Also, do different string materials, 452x, BCY x, BCY X99, 8190, etc, have different stretching times? Right now I will be using 8190 as I have been using this for making traditional Flemish twist strings. Thanks




This is just my opinion, but I never pull a “stretching” tension before twisting.

I never exceed 100# while twisting.... just my opinion.


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## patches2565

automan26 said:


> I have two similar tools and I do not recommend using them on a tensioned string. It is too easy to cut one of the strands in the center part of the string. If the bow is pressed they work fine.
> 
> Automan


Agreed. Have you served a string with serving through it first? (When splitting the string not under tension)

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## jpsissom3204

automan26 said:


> I have two similar tools and I do not recommend using them on a tensioned string. It is too easy to cut one of the strands in the center part of the string. If the bow is pressed they work fine.
> 
> Automan


I didn’t until I saw that video last week sometime. I split it untensioned and tension up
To whatever poundage I want to serve at. It makes it so much easier to start


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## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> Question about the initial 300# stretching time before twisting and serving compound strings/cables.....what is the recommended time? I’ve seen times anywhere from 20 minutes to letting the string stretch overnight. In other words, is there any benefit to stretching for a longer period, or is this just overkill? Also, do different string materials, 452x, BCY x, BCY X99, 8190, etc, have different stretching times? Right now I will be using 8190 as I have been using this for making traditional Flemish twist strings. Thanks


As the thread has progressed, we've pretty much all modified our processes. I don't stretch at 300 before twisting anymore. Instead I take it up to 150 or so and let it sit for 5-10 minutes, depending on how long it takes me to get coffee and pet the dog or whatever else comes up. Then I twist and take to stretching tension to burnish. I've found that longer doesn't really make a difference. 

Different materials do have different stretch times. 8190 has a lot of movement to it in my experience so it'll take a while to "hit bottom". Fury takes longer than 452x because you use more strands on average. Each material has its own characteristics so the best thing to do is to check back after an hour or so, measure or see how much weight has been lost, crank it back up to tension, wait another half hour and remeasure, crank it back up and wait another half hour etc. etc. Each one will be slightly different. For me and the materials I use most, if 452x gets an hour for a string, Fury gets 2 hours.


----------



## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Anyone start with splitting the string like this?
> 
> https://youtu.be/3smEdB-Mk8c
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Absolutely not. I've seen and fixed a lot of broken strings from doing that. On a low weight recurve like that, it's a lot "safer" than a compound but still not a good idea. If he were to have pushed that through a single strand, separating the individual fibers and cutting them, now he has a cut string.


----------



## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Agreed. Have you served a string with serving through it first? (When splitting the string not under tension)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I used to do all my serving that way but it got to be a pain to split the string each time. There's not really a need to do it anyway as I've never had an end come undone or a center serving move. It is a little easier to start the serving but takes very little time to get good at starting it without splitting the string too.


----------



## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> I used to do all my serving that way but it got to be a pain to split the string each time. There's not really a need to do it anyway as I've never had an end come undone or a center serving move. It is a little easier to start the serving but takes very little time to get good at starting it without splitting the string too.


I might try and might not. I just recently completed a split yoke where I started my serving at the post and worked inward. I like that method better for me personally as I see no negative consequences of either direction as long as I go with the twists. 

If some one on here does maybe wanna try splitting then to alleviate possibly cutting strands I would leave my runner thread in between the bundle and use that to make it very simple to split.

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## rapids

Thanks Hunt,

Like I said, I’ve been using 8190 and after initially at 300# (post #3, step 10), 2 hours later it has dropped to around 200#. I’ve cranked it back up to 300# and let it sit for the night. In that post you only used 20 minutes though, and in other string building sources, they have used longer times. That’s why I asked is if it is overkill to stretch for longer times. Appreciate your input.


----------



## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> Thanks Hunt,
> 
> Like I said, I’ve been using 8190 and after initially at 300# (post #3, step 10), 2 hours later it has dropped to around 200#. I’ve cranked it back up to 300# and let it sit for the night. In that post you only used 20 minutes though, and in other string building sources, they have used longer times. That’s why I asked is if it is overkill to stretch for longer times. Appreciate your input.


Yeah I wish I could go back to the original post and make changes but due to the nature of the forum, we just have to tell how things have changed and hope people can follow along through the thread.


----------



## Mule Deer Gumbo

I'm new to string/cable building and will be making my first set for a Reign 7. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to share any spec/material info for building for this bow. I am particularly troubled by the stock 22 strand 12/10 yolk leg issue using 452X, which is the string material I already purchased. Would I be better off using something else? Why not simply go with the 12/10 legs? I have read a lot of this thread already, it has great info, but I'm a little scared and overwhelmed. I just want to build some strings and cables that don't have any of the peep rotation I've been experiencing with what I've been using. Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## NP Archery

Mule Deer Gumbo said:


> I'm new to string/cable building and will be making my first set for a Reign 7. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to share any spec/material info for building for this bow. I am particularly troubled by the stock 22 strand 12/10 yolk leg issue using 452X, which is the string material I already purchased. Would I be better off using something else? Why not simply go with the 12/10 legs? I have read a lot of this thread already, it has great info, but I'm a little scared and overwhelmed. I just want to build some strings and cables that don't have any of the peep rotation I've been experiencing with what I've been using. Thanks in advance for your help!


There should be no issues using 24 strands of 452X on the cables. Split the buss at an even 12/12 for the legs. For me....I'd never go with an unbalanced yoke. Not that there is anything wrong with that it's just so much easier to keep up with the even counts.


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## AlienX

I'm going to try making my first set of strings, I've been following this thread for a couple years but never worked up the courage to actually do it until now. Is anyone still using braided fishing line for serving and if so what poundage line are you using for center and end serving?

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## blbhunt2

I'm also just starting out! Ordered some string from the classifieds on here and super excited to get them. Still need to do some work on the jig, but it's coming along. Thanks for everyone for the great information on here!

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## deerbum

AlienX said:


> I'm going to try making my first set of strings, I've been following this thread for a couple years but never worked up the courage to actually do it until now. Is anyone still using braided fishing line for serving and if so what poundage line are you using for center and end serving?
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


My experience with it using 40# 4 strand Spectra braid purchased on Ebay is that for yoke, string end, roller guard, string stop, idler wheel servings it works great. It's very similar in size to .014" halo. For centers I use powergrip and cable ends either halo or powergrip. To me it's not worth the hassle of fixing these areas where serving is most likely to separate. Not saying it wouldn't work, just haven't bothered to try. On my Bowtechs I serve around 55" with fishing line and 26" with the good stuff, it's a significant cost savings in the long run.


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## AlienX

deerbum said:


> My experience with it using 40# 4 strand Spectra braid purchased on Ebay is that for yoke, string end, roller guard, string stop, idler wheel servings it works great. It's very similar in size to .014" halo. For centers I use powergrip and cable ends either halo or powergrip. To me it's not worth the hassle of fixing these areas where serving is most likely to separate. Not saying it wouldn't work, just haven't bothered to try. On my Bowtechs I serve around 55" with fishing line and 26" with the good stuff, it's a significant cost savings in the long run.


I have a few more questions, sorry for being so green about this. When you say cable ends do you mean the end loops? If so I was just going to use the string material tag end method to start. And does the powergrip come in different sizes?

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## deerbum

AlienX said:


> I have a few more questions, sorry for being so green about this. When you say cable ends do you mean the end loops? If so I was just going to use the string material tag end method to start. And does the powergrip come in different sizes?
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I'm still using tag ends to serve my loops also. The cable end serving is the roughly 10" section of serving from the loop on the bows I'm using. Powergrip comes in .009, .014, .018, .021 and up. Most commonly .018" is used for centers depending on the nock and string bundle diameter. It's a trail and error thing. On cable ends I've been using .014" powergrip but cannot say it's the best serving to use in all situations as it's finished diameter will be greater than if using .014" halo. It depends on the cam track and bundle diameter. Halo .014" would generally be a safe bet for most cams on a cable end serving, some use 3d or other serving on some models but I have no experience with that.


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## Huntinsker

AlienX said:


> I have a few more questions, sorry for being so green about this. When you say cable ends do you mean the end loops? If so I was just going to use the string material tag end method to start. And does the powergrip come in different sizes?
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


To kind of piggy back on what deerbum mentioned already, the cable ends are the ends of the cable that is taken up by the cable track on the cam. This is where the cable rolls and bends over the draw length modules so it's a very high stress area and takes a good quality material to stand up to it. Halo or Bullwhip are about standard on cable ends. 3d doesn't really work well here as it's not braided and therefore not as abrasion resistant. I've never use any braided fishing lines in this area but I know people who have. Maybe Automan or some others will see this and chime in for you on how well they perform on the cable ends.


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## automan26

Here are a couple pics the end servings on my 3D bow. I use braided Chinese fishing line and it seems to be holding up well. I have the identical setup on my target bow and the serving on those cams look the same or better. The serving on the bottom cam is just barely fuzzy because that is the cam that sometimes rests on my foot or against the ground between rounds, but that is not to say that the serving wear on that cam is anything close to excessive. I have used Chinese fishing line on all my strings for years and I have never had an issue with any of my bows or with any customer bows.

Automan


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## rapids

After completing a new string & cables, do you initially break in the new threads with the peep installed, or do you leave it off and then install it later. If you install it later, how many shots do you usually put on the new string. Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> After completing a new string & cables, do you initially break in the new threads with the peep installed, or do you leave it off and then install it later. If you install it later, how many shots do you usually put on the new string. Thanks


If they're my strings, I let the strings settle into the cam tracks with 5-10 shots and they should be good to go.


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## rapids

Huntinsker said:


> If they're my strings, I let the strings settle into the cam tracks with 5-10 shots and they should be good to go.


So, you install the peep right away or after 5-10 shots?


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## blbhunt2

Here's my very first practice string! All done by hand on my homemade jig. I need to get a serving tool and some serving material as soon as I can (that's just regular fury for serving, just for practice and because I couldn't wait to try my hand at a string ). Gonna be hard to wait till I can get a set done to try on my bow!!!









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## automan26

Nice colors. Your end loops look very good as well. I think the string bug bit you hard. LOL

Automan


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## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> So, you install the peep right away or after 5-10 shots?


Yep. With a stable string, there's no reason to wait. Do the prep work while building, ie. lay out evenly, stretch adequately, serve consistently and without too much tension, and the string should be ready once it's fit the cam tracks. Shouldn't take more than 5-10 shots if everything goes perfectly. I won't throw a string away if it takes a few more shots but I haven't needed more than 5-10 in several years now, for my own strings anyway.


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## nestly

If I already know the peep height, I install the peep, set the rotation, and tie it in on my stretcher before it ever goes on the bow. If the peep is rotated perpendicular to the posts on the stretcher and you don't add/remove any twists when transferring it to the bow, there's no reason the peep wont be rotated perpendicular to the cam posts on the bow as well.


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## rapids

Huntinsker said:


> Yep. With a stable string, there's no reason to wait. Do the prep work while building, ie. lay out evenly, stretch adequately, serve consistently and without too much tension, and the string should be ready once it's fit the cam tracks. Shouldn't take more than 5-10 shots if everything goes perfectly. I won't throw a string away if it takes a few more shots but I haven't needed more than 5-10 in several years now, for my own strings anyway.


Thanks......hope mine will do the same. Merry Christmas


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## patches2565

Just installed my cables on my bow. It's my first pinstripe set so there are imperfections. It was crazy how much the previous owner twisted the cables already. Anyway I installed my buss and control and all reference measurements are spot on which makes me smile. I like clear serving but might stick with black till I master the end serving. Turned out nice I think so far. Waiting on my pinstripe jig from BAP and then it string time.









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## automan26

Nice threads. How does it feel to no longer be one of those guys on the General Forum who is trying to find a good string builder? You ARE that string builder you once looked for, only now your threads are built to your exact requirements. Also, the threads you build are better than what you could purchase because you have the time to take the time to make sure every step in the process is done perfectly.

Automan


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## Ebrathole

Definitely going to be giving this a try after getting a quote for a new set of strings! I have a question regarding tensioning of the string build though. The spring specified in the original plans from McMaster Carr has a known spring rate. I do not have a linear scale, so would it be sufficient to measure the compression distance of the spring and calculate the tension using the known spring rate, or would that not be precise enough to acheive proper tension for measuring and stretching. For example, the listed spring has a rate of 530lbs/in, so tighten until .566in of compression for 300lbs stretching and .189in for 100lbs to measure? It seems from reading through the thread stretching has some wiggle room, but how spot on does the 100lbs have to be for measuring out finished length? Granted a scale is of course something useful to have, but would that be a required initial investment for this project?


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## Huntinsker

Ebrathole said:


> Definitely going to be giving this a try after getting a quote for a new set of strings! I have a question regarding tensioning of the string build though. The spring specified in the original plans from McMaster Carr has a known spring rate. I do not have a linear scale, so would it be sufficient to measure the compression distance of the spring and calculate the tension using the known spring rate, or would that not be precise enough to acheive proper tension for measuring and stretching. For example, the listed spring has a rate of 530lbs/in, so tighten until .566in of compression for 300lbs stretching and .189in for 100lbs to measure? It seems from reading through the thread stretching has some wiggle room, but how spot on does the 100lbs have to be for measuring out finished length? Granted a scale is of course something useful to have, but would that be a required initial investment for this project?


Great question. For your own purposes, you really don't even need a scale. You could simply make your own standard and as long as you have existing string/cables to measure, you could just measure under those parameters. However, the industry standard is to measure strings on 1/4" post under 100lbs of tension so if you're ever building a set for a bow that you don't have on hand and can't measure, using your standard, you may not get good results. In that case, having a scale is, IMO important. 

As for the spring and it's spring rate, I don't know for certain. I know the more you compress it, the faster the weight increases so it's not quite a linear relationship. Check out post #221 on page 9. A former member did some precise compression rating of the spring for folks in your shoes. Here's what he found for spring deflection and poundage. 

0 lbs - 2"
100 lbs - 1.8237"
200 lbs - 1.6480"
300 lbs - 1.4732"
350 lbs - 1.3887"


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## deerbum

I bought this 600 lb scale off ebay, they are listed for $23 delivered right now plus 15% off today. Seems to work fine for making strings and weighing deer.


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## Ebrathole

Huntinsker said:


> Ebrathole said:
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely going to be giving this a try after getting a quote for a new set of strings! I have a question regarding tensioning of the string build though. The spring specified in the original plans from McMaster Carr has a known spring rate. I do not have a linear scale, so would it be sufficient to measure the compression distance of the spring and calculate the tension using the known spring rate, or would that not be precise enough to acheive proper tension for measuring and stretching. For example, the listed spring has a rate of 530lbs/in, so tighten until .566in of compression for 300lbs stretching and .189in for 100lbs to measure? It seems from reading through the thread stretching has some wiggle room, but how spot on does the 100lbs have to be for measuring out finished length? Granted a scale is of course something useful to have, but would that be a required initial investment for this project?
> 
> 
> 
> Great question. For your own purposes, you really don't even need a scale. You could simply make your own standard and as long as you have existing string/cables to measure, you could just measure under those parameters. However, the industry standard is to measure strings on 1/4" post under 100lbs of tension so if you're ever building a set for a bow that you don't have on hand and can't measure, using your standard, you may not get good results. In that case, having a scale is, IMO important.
> 
> As for the spring and it's spring rate, I don't know for certain. I know the more you compress it, the faster the weight increases so it's not quite a linear relationship. Check out post #221 on page 9. A former member did some precise compression rating of the spring for folks in your shoes. Here's what he found for spring deflection and poundage.
> 
> 0 lbs - 2"
> 100 lbs - 1.8237"
> 200 lbs - 1.6480"
> 300 lbs - 1.4732"
> 350 lbs - 1.3887"
Click to expand...

Thanks Huntinsker! It seems like I'm best off biting the bullet and getting a scale on the initial setup. I feel like the length (and build quality)on one of my current bowstrings is questionable, so I dont really know if I can gauge on that. And I'd really hate to invest the time in building a string or cable and have it not work out. Maybe it will take a few more builds to start paying for itself, but (after some practice), I dont want to be making myself inferior quality strings or have my cables slightly off because I cheaped out.


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## patches2565

automan26 said:


> Nice threads. How does it feel to no longer be one of those guys on the General Forum who is trying to find a good string builder? You ARE that string builder you once looked for, only now your threads are built to your exact requirements. Also, the threads you build are better than what you could purchase because you have the time to take the time to make sure every step in the process is done perfectly.
> 
> Automan


Yeah. You can see where the pin didnt quite make it out in all spots. I spent a considerable amount of time trying but went for functionality in place. I'll work on my technique. I suspect I pulled my tees to soon or something. Possibly even as early back as laying the colors out

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## patches2565

So I'm having a hard time starting my end loops. It's right at the beginning where you add the first 5 wraps. I cant seem to get it to stay in place. 

Any advice? Or a quick video demonstration 

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## Ebrathole

patches2565 said:


> So I'm having a hard time starting my end loops. It's right at the beginning where you add the first 5 wraps. I cant seem to get it to stay in place.
> 
> Any advice? Or a quick video demonstration
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


 I'm only in the planning and gathering materials stage of building my jig, and have not yet built a string to give firsthand advice myself, but FWIW, after reading this thread over and over, I found this gentleman's video series on YouTube, https://youtu.be/aIJlJDolA6c , hes got this thread tagged in the description and seems to be referencing it almost exactly in his jig setup and building. Was a huge help to me in visualizing everything. Cant wait to give my first set of threads a try. Again huge thanks to everyone here for compiling this amazing wealth of knowledge!


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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> So I'm having a hard time starting my end loops. It's right at the beginning where you add the first 5 wraps. I cant seem to get it to stay in place.
> 
> Any advice? Or a quick video demonstration
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


More overlap of the wraps in that area. The first 2-3 wraps will lock the tag ends behind the post. Then you can leave a little slack in the tag end when you pull it back so that you can position it to overlap onto the previous wraps and essentially go over them again and wrap over at least half the wrap before it. I like to do all the wraps like that until I get out from behind the loop and then you can just wrap and pull the back tight. I still like to get them to overlap but it's easier to do at that point. It's when you have to squeeze them in behind the post that it takes a little more consideration.


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## automan26

Ebrathole said:


> I'm only in the planning and gathering materials stage of building my jig, and have not yet built a string to give firsthand advice myself, but FWIW, after reading this thread over and over, I found this gentleman's video series on YouTube, https://youtu.be/aIJlJDolA6c , hes got this thread tagged in the description and seems to be referencing it almost exactly in his jig setup and building. Was a huge help to me in visualizing everything. Cant wait to give my first set of threads a try. Again huge thanks to everyone here for compiling this amazing wealth of knowledge!


The link you posted is one of a four part series. The jig he is using is an El-Cheap-O just like many of us here are using. Those videos should help you a lot.

Automan


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## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> More overlap of the wraps in that area. The first 2-3 wraps will lock the tag ends behind the post. Then you can leave a little slack in the tag end when you pull it back so that you can position it to overlap onto the previous wraps and essentially go over them again and wrap over at least half the wrap before it. I like to do all the wraps like that until I get out from behind the loop and then you can just wrap and pull the back tight. I still like to get them to overlap but it's easier to do at that point. It's when you have to squeeze them in behind the post that it takes a little more consideration.


Sorry I meant the actual serving portion. Its just something I have to practice at I suppose. 

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Sorry I meant the actual serving portion. Its just something I have to practice at I suppose.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Ahh gotcha. One thing that helps that is to make sure where you've finished your tag end loops is as flat and tight as possible. I don't actually like to pull the tag end back on itself very tightly so that the back wraps don't bunch up and get thick. The serving when going over that section can bite through the tag end wraps and cause them to "squeeze out" and separate the serving on top. So to help prevent it, I back wrap very tightly and pull the tag end back snug but not so tight to bunch. Then when serving up the loop transition, I will decrease tension on the string/cable so the loop squeezes together easier allowing me do decrease the tension on the serving bobbin. This still brings the loop together nicely and the serving doesn't bite into the tag ends underneath.


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## patches2565

I see. Thanks I'll try that. When I start my serving I'm thinking of maybe being at 70 ish pounds and give it 5-10 wraps. Then I'll pull tight. After that I'll go to 300 and begin my serving. 

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> I see. Thanks I'll try that. When I start my serving I'm thinking of maybe being at 70 ish pounds and give it 5-10 wraps. Then I'll pull tight. After that I'll go to 300 and begin my serving.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


You must be serving from the loop? I didn't like doing that for the reason you're seeing. Much easier for me to get smooth transitions when serving towards the loop and then pulling the tag end back under.


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## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> You must be serving from the loop? I didn't like doing that for the reason you're seeing. Much easier for me to get smooth transitions when serving towards the loop and then pulling the tag end back under.


So I tried starting from the loop down and had so so results. I really like going towards the loop. Like I said it's tough for me to even start laying out the serving because it wants to slip. When I do get it though I love the results. 

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## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> You must be serving from the loop? I didn't like doing that for the reason you're seeing. Much easier for me to get smooth transitions when serving towards the loop and then pulling the tag end back under.


https://youtu.be/ubVR_ZvuVSo

1:45 to 2:00 is the hard part for whatever reason.

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> https://youtu.be/ubVR_ZvuVSo
> 
> 1:45 to 2:00 is the hard part for whatever reason.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Starting the serving can be a bit tricky if you're not used to doing it without splitting the bundles. I'll try to get a video of how I start it but in the meantime here's my best attempt at explaining it. I will place my finger on the serving on the back side of the piece and lay the tag end down in the direction that I'm going to serve. I use my other hand to wrap over the tag end at least 6 times before taking my finger off the serving. There'll be a loop created where my finger was holding it down against the string. I move the serving to exactly where I want to start it and then give the serving bobbin a little pull to tighten those 6 wraps a bit, not too much or you'll just unwind everything. Then I pull the tag end snug, wrap a couple more wraps and then pull the tag end down tight. Then you can finish your serving just like you normally would.


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## patches2565

I just picked up a new bap pinstripe jig. I noticed that when I lay up my strands the jig will be in the way as in making the strands bow out a bit. Should I worry at all? I had planned to raise my jig a bit if I had to in order to compensate but would rather not.



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## automan26

Pics?

Automan


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## highwaynorth

I have been thinking about trying some X99 material. Does anybody know how many strands to use to end up with
a finished diameter of .101 - .103 when served with .014 halo.


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## patches2565

automan26 said:


> Pics?
> 
> Automan


I'll PM you

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## patches2565

Good? Bad? 

I'm leaning heavily towards installing a 2 ft piece of unistrut on both jigs to raise them up and make it better









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## Bownut400

patches2565 said:


> I just picked up a new bap pinstripe jig. I noticed that when I lay up my strands the jig will be in the way as in making the strands bow out a bit. Should I worry at all? I had planned to raise my jig a bit if I had to in order to compensate but would rather not.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


What size do you need? I will make a shorter one and exchange it for you. 


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## patches2565

Bownut400 said:


> What size do you need? I will make a shorter one and exchange it for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I sent you a PM. Thank you

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> Good? Bad?
> 
> I'm leaning heavily towards installing a 2 ft piece of unistrut on both jigs to raise them up and make it better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


If it were me, I'd just put it off to the side. It's just holding your tag ends for you so it doesn't have to be exactly in the middle.


----------



## Madkaw284

Bownut400 said:


> What size do you need? I will make a shorter one and exchange it for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now that’s customer service right there. Nicely done gents. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## blbhunt2

Look what I found in my basement!!! [emoji3][emoji3] Still need a spring and some grade 8 bolts for posts.









Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## automan26

blbhunt2 said:


> Look what I found in my basement!!! [emoji3][emoji3] Still need a spring and some grade 8 bolts for posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


That has the makings for a fine jig.

Automan


----------



## rok1167

unreal this thread is still going strong, it's awesome, nice job. 

anybody know where i can get string lengths for bows? i've been able to get most with random interweb searches. specifically looking for an rx3 ultra before it arrives but would be nice to know of a central location for all bows. thanks.


----------



## blbhunt2

If it's not on a sticker on the limb of your bow, just look on the manufacturer website. Do a Google search for Hoyt tune charts, it'll pop right up

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## Hunter Hr.

Can someone have data for mathews no cam htr string? Want build string for my friend but i don't have old string to know serving lenght etc.


----------



## rok1167

blbhunt2 said:


> If it's not on a sticker on the limb of your bow, just look on the manufacturer website. Do a Google search for Hoyt tune charts, it'll pop right up
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


nice, thanks. 2019 tune charts aren't available yet.


----------



## PowerLineman83

rok1167 said:


> nice, thanks. 2019 tune charts aren't available yet.


Best bet is to wait on the bow, tune it then remove and record the lengths and layouts.

Seems these are tough to find. I’ve seen several posts in various places looking for them..


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## patches2565

Hunter Hr. said:


> Can someone have data for mathews no cam htr string? Want build string for my friend but i don't have old string to know serving lenght etc.


Mathews HTR no cam htr. 59 7/8 cables 37 5/8

0...24.5...27.75-32...17.75...0

sp nks there is 1 on each end @ 16.5

---->--->---->-------->----->

cam end 0...7...10.5-25 3/8...27 3/8-30 7/8...0 unserved end x2

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## blbhunt2

Gotcha, I'm not used to looking things up for new bows [emoji5]. All my old bows specs have been on there for several years already..... 

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## PowerLineman83

blbhunt2 said:


> Gotcha, I'm not used to looking things up for new bows [emoji5]. All my old bows specs have been on there for several years already.....
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Right... be sure to be careful with your buss cable construction. Keep that yoke spreader from twisting. You may already be aware, but it was worth mentioning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hunter Hr.

Thanks alot Patches 2565!!


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## patches2565

Hunter Hr. said:


> Thanks alot Patches 2565!!


No problem. I got if off of the attn. String makers sticky.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=672247&share_fid=16462&share_type=t

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## rok1167

how many strands of x99 are y'all using?


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## Huntinsker

rok1167 said:


> how many strands of x99 are y'all using?


I'm not using it but know guys are using 28-32 depending on the color and the bows. Mostly 28 though.


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## blbhunt2

Finally got my first set done. 28 strands of fury, teal and Flo red. 3d end serving and diamondback center serving. Sorry about the pics, just snapped a couple quick with my phone.









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## versydus

gotta follow this thread!


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## automan26

blbhunt2 said:


> Finally got my first set done. 28 strands of fury, teal and Flo red. 3d end serving and diamondback center serving. Sorry about the pics, just snapped a couple quick with my phone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I think you have some sweet X-busters there. Time to get to a range and strut those threads.

Automan


----------



## Refletch2

This thread is awesome! I read the whole thing a few years ago and although I was VERY interested in trying to build my own jig and strings I never got around to it. I have been inactive on this forum for quite a while but recently came back to check up on this and WOW!, this is still going strong! I finally got all the material I needed to build the jig and got her done last night. Still waiting on the spring (which took a while to find that would ship to Canada) and a scale to calibrate it. Also had to order some string material online as we are in a remote location far from anywhere that sells it. Seen some pretty [email protected] strings on here and I am only hoping to be able to make a set for my Hoyt Charger that looks close to has good as them!

Any Canadian string builder on here that would have a good place to order material online? I looked and ended up ordering 452X from Amazon at 46$ for 1/8lbs spool. Not much colors to choose from and some were out of stock 

Thanks again to everyone for sharing all this info on here and looking forward to my 1st set!!


----------



## PowerLineman83

Refletch2 said:


> This thread is awesome! I read the whole thing a few years ago and although I was VERY interested in trying to build my own jig and strings I never got around to it. I have been inactive on this forum for quite a while but recently came back to check up on this and WOW!, this is still going strong! I finally got all the material I needed to build the jig and got her done last night. Still waiting on the spring (which took a while to find that would ship to Canada) and a scale to calibrate it. Also had to order some string material online as we are in a remote location far from anywhere that sells it. Seen some pretty [email protected] strings on here and I am only hoping to be able to make a set for my Hoyt Charger that looks close to has good as them!
> 
> Any Canadian string builder on here that would have a good place to order material online? I looked and ended up ordering 452X from Amazon at 46$ for 1/8lbs spool. Not much colors to choose from and some were out of stock
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for sharing all this info on here and looking forward to my 1st set!!


Search for Mean Moose Archery on FB. They’re a Canadian company... maybe they can help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Refletch2

PowerLineman83 said:


> Search for Mean Moose Archery on FB. They’re a Canadian company... maybe they can help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cool thanks I'll go check them out!


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## PowerLineman83

Refletch2 said:


> Cool thanks I'll go check them out!




At least they’re in the right side of the border! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## patches2565

Refletch2 said:


> This thread is awesome! I read the whole thing a few years ago and although I was VERY interested in trying to build my own jig and strings I never got around to it. I have been inactive on this forum for quite a while but recently came back to check up on this and WOW!, this is still going strong! I finally got all the material I needed to build the jig and got her done last night. Still waiting on the spring (which took a while to find that would ship to Canada) and a scale to calibrate it. Also had to order some string material online as we are in a remote location far from anywhere that sells it. Seen some pretty [email protected] strings on here and I am only hoping to be able to make a set for my Hoyt Charger that looks close to has good as them!
> 
> Any Canadian string builder on here that would have a good place to order material online? I looked and ended up ordering 452X from Amazon at 46$ for 1/8lbs spool. Not much colors to choose from and some were out of stock
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for sharing all this info on here and looking forward to my 1st set!!


I offer 1/8 spools at 35tyd per spool. If interested let me know. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Golfnut1969

If you got the correct spring, it should be factory calibrated. This 2 inch spring (https://www.mcmaster.com/9573K81), has a compression rate is 530 lbs per inch. I can't recall where I found this chart for determining load based on the amount of compression, but here it is. I'd be curious to see how accurate it is, as I don't have a scale accurate enough to know.

2" = 0 lbs
1[SUP]7/8[/SUP]" = 100 lbs
1[SUP]5/8[/SUP]" = 200 lbs
1[SUP]1/2[/SUP]" = 300 lbs
1[SUP]3/8[/SUP]" = 350 lbs
1" = 530 lbs


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## blbhunt2

automan26 said:


> I think you have some sweet X-busters there. Time to get to a range and strut those threads.
> 
> Automan


Thanks automan. They are far from perfect, but overall I'm impressed for the first set. I am getting a little serving separation where the string hits the cam at full draw. Put them on the bow and put a few shots though it then did some paper tuning. It took a few twists here and there but I'm shooting bulletholes now. And no peep rotation yet! I think I'm going to build another set and try to get a little better once I do some work on my jig. 

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## Refletch2

35$ shipped to my door is the best I've seen yet! I will be in touch with you... Thanks patches2565!


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## patches2565

Refletch2 said:


> 35$ shipped to my door is the best I've seen yet! I will be in touch with you... Thanks patches2565!


Anytime

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## Huntinsker

blbhunt2 said:


> Thanks automan. They are far from perfect, but overall I'm impressed for the first set. I am getting a little serving separation where the string hits the cam at full draw. Put them on the bow and put a few shots though it then did some paper tuning. It took a few twists here and there but I'm shooting bulletholes now. And no peep rotation yet! I think I'm going to build another set and try to get a little better once I do some work on my jig.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Looking really good on your first set. One thing to consider is that 3d for a cable ends may wear and separate quickly compared to a braided material like Halo, Bullwhip, Powergrip or Angel Majesty. Something to think about. Another consideration, that you mentioned is that several Hoyt cams are kind of notorious for serving separation where they come off the cam. Chargers a couple years ago were so bad that they were cutting strings right there. Fuel and RKT cams are tough on that area too. For that reason, it may be worth serving the string ends with a tightly served braided material as well. That's another nice thing about building your own. You can make those fixes as needed.


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## Refletch2

I have a question about the jig... As I mentioned earlier I am waiting for the spring and scale to come in but I had originally ordered the wrong spring (because I couldn't find the exact match at 1st). Its 3 inches long which wouldn't allow for the support eye bolt without an extension. After building the jig last night I realized that and found and ordered the correct spring. Well the 3" spring just came in and just for fun and giggles I decided to slap it on and test it with my smaller 100lb digital scale anyways.

I noticed that the threads on the rod are getting caught where they go through the corner bracket making the load go up faster and giving a false spring measurement if your not careful. Took some banging around to make the load drop and so on until I was at 100lb. Not sure if adding the eye bolt to keep the rod straight will help? (which I will once I get the right spring) Did you guys remove any of the threads on the rod, did you notice the same thing? Will this get better with time?


----------



## Refletch2

blbhunt2 said:


> Finally got my first set done. 28 strands of fury, teal and Flo red. 3d end serving and diamondback center serving. Sorry about the pics, just snapped a couple quick with my phone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Looks nice! Did you practice on smaller lengths 1st or went straight to a set for your bow? Wonder how long it takes to get the hang of it... Can't wait to start building!


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## blbhunt2

I did several shorter strings, about 18". Practiced doing tag end loops vs served end loops. I think tags are easier, personally prefer served loops. The one thing I should have practiced was a split buss cable, that was the most challenging part for me. 

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## patches2565

Refletch2 said:


> Looks nice! Did you practice on smaller lengths 1st or went straight to a set for your bow? Wonder how long it takes to get the hang of it... Can't wait to start building!


It's not letting me PM you for some reason. 

You can email me at [email protected] 

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## Huntinsker

Refletch2 said:


> I have a question about the jig... As I mentioned earlier I am waiting for the spring and scale to come in but I had originally ordered the wrong spring (because I couldn't find the exact match at 1st). Its 3 inches long which wouldn't allow for the support eye bolt without an extension. After building the jig last night I realized that and found and ordered the correct spring. Well the 3" spring just came in and just for fun and giggles I decided to slap it on and test it with my smaller 100lb digital scale anyways.
> 
> I noticed that the threads on the rod are getting caught where they go through the corner bracket making the load go up faster and giving a false spring measurement if your not careful. Took some banging around to make the load drop and so on until I was at 100lb. Not sure if adding the eye bolt to keep the rod straight will help? (which I will once I get the right spring) Did you guys remove any of the threads on the rod, did you notice the same thing? Will this get better with time?


One of the biggest limitations of the jig as we've shown to build it is the smoothness that is functions....... but it's easy to make. Having the rear eye bolt is important to prevent it from binding too much. If you made any addition to help it function more smoothly, finding some sort of buffer between the eyebolt and all thread would be a good idea. Even something like a piece of thin steel conduit to put between the all thread and eyebolt will help it hang up less. There are tons of pictures of modifications that people have used and there's a lot of stuff that a person could implement on their own jig based off the mods that others have done. Just depends on the tools you have available and what you want to do.


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## Huntinsker

Refletch2 said:


> Looks nice! Did you practice on smaller lengths 1st or went straight to a set for your bow? Wonder how long it takes to get the hang of it... Can't wait to start building!





blbhunt2 said:


> I did several shorter strings, about 18". Practiced doing tag end loops vs served end loops. I think tags are easier, personally prefer served loops. The one thing I should have practiced was a split buss cable, that was the most challenging part for me.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


You may have read it in the thread but we generally think it's a good idea to make a 30", 60" and 90" string to nail down your process and layout equation to get your initial layout for each length of piece. Of course know that each will be somewhat approximate so you'll need to learn to make slight modifications on the fly.


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## Refletch2

Huntinsker said:


> You may have read it in the thread but we generally think it's a good idea to make a 30", 60" and 90" string to nail down your process and layout equation to get your initial layout for each length of piece. Of course know that each will be somewhat approximate so you'll need to learn to make slight modifications on the fly.


So if I understand what your saying, make the different size piece using the 0.75 X 0.012 formula and adjust jig post as per results depending on what I get? Do you have different formula for different lengths or have found a formula that works for all? What are people normally ending up with, too long or too short?

Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Huntinsker

Refletch2 said:


> So if I understand what your saying, make the different size piece using the 0.75 X 0.012 formula and adjust jig post as per results depending on what I get? Do you have different formula for different lengths or have found a formula that works for all? What are people normally ending up with, too long or too short?
> 
> Thanks for the reply!


You'll never have one formula that's perfect for all lengths. Reason is that the formulas are limited to working on a linear scale where we all know that when there's more material to stretch, the length increases exponentially. In other words, 10 inches does not stretch exactly 1/10th as 100 inches of the same material. For that reason, many people will have different formulas for different "length groups", (30, 60, 90" etc.) and definitely for different materials. 

I on the other hand am kind of lazy so I haven't actually done that. I plug my numbers in and adjust how much to knock off the length just from memory and experience. Not the most scientific way to do it but that's why string building is also a bit of an art. I would suggest that when you're starting out, it's easier to be more scientific about it haha. 

So when you build your 30, 60 and 90 inch test strings, build to exactly what the formula tells you. Then when it's all said and done, measure at 100lbs and see how much longer or shorter your strings are. That will give you an idea how you need to adjust your variables for each "length group".


----------



## Refletch2

Huntinsker said:


> You'll never have one formula that's perfect for all lengths. Reason is that the formulas are limited to working on a linear scale where we all know that when there's more material to stretch, the length increases exponentially. In other words, 10 inches does not stretch exactly 1/10th as 100 inches of the same material. For that reason, many people will have different formulas for different "length groups", (30, 60, 90" etc.) and definitely for different materials.
> 
> I on the other hand am kind of lazy so I haven't actually done that. I plug my numbers in and adjust how much to knock off the length just from memory and experience. Not the most scientific way to do it but that's why string building is also a bit of an art. I would suggest that when you're starting out, it's easier to be more scientific about it haha.
> 
> So when you build your 30, 60 and 90 inch test strings, build to exactly what the formula tells you. Then when it's all said and done, measure at 100lbs and see how much longer or shorter your strings are. That will give you an idea how you need to adjust your variables for each "length group".


Makes sense, I will start with that as soon as I can... Thanks again!


----------



## blbhunt2

Automan, do you still have your PowerPoint available? I tried the link from way back on this thread but Dropbox said it is unavailable for download

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## automan26

Are you trying to download it to your phone? Sometimes Dropbox will not download to phones. Try downloading it to a tablet or computer. If you still can't get it to work, PM me a mailing address and I will send you a copy on CD.

Maybe someone else who reads this can do me a favor and try to download it themselves, just so I can make sure that everything is working, or if there is a problem I need to correct.

Automan


----------



## blbhunt2

I was using my phone, I thought of trying on the computer but hadn't tried it yet. I'll try and let you know if it works. Thanks

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## Homebrew454

I have not read the entire thread yet. What page would the PowerPoint be on? I've just been going off of YouTube videos but would like to view the PowerPoint as well. Thanks in advance!!! Sorry for my laziness as well. 

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


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## automan26

Homebrew454 said:


> I have not read the entire thread yet. What page would the PowerPoint be on? I've just been going off of YouTube videos but would like to view the PowerPoint as well. Thanks in advance!!! Sorry for my laziness as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk


There is a link to it in my signature.

Automan


----------



## automan26

I just opened it on my wife's tablet and did get it to work, but I had to download the app first. Let me know if you still have problems. If it opens correctly, all the embedded links will work. Sometimes you have to dink around with Dropbox to make it do what is supposed to do, but there is a way to get it to work if you are persistent.

Automan


----------



## Homebrew454

automan26 said:


> There is a link to it in my signature.
> 
> Automan


Awesome.... Thanks!!!!

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## blbhunt2

Post #4873 is where I found it

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## Homebrew454

blbhunt2 said:


> Post #4873 is where I found it
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Thanks

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## Refletch2

automan26 said:


> There is a link to it in my signature.
> 
> Automan


Awesome step by step instructions! WOW!


----------



## automan26

*Important update*

The link in post 4873 is a very old link and the PowerPoint has been updated several times since then. The link below links you to the latest version which has some important updated information. If you downloaded the older version in #4873 I would advise you to open the link below and download the latest update.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yef5pggfxryg9y/El-Cheap-O 3.23.ppsx?dl=0

Automan

(Dropbox is weird....It seems that every time I try to open it, I have to hunt around to find a way to open the PowerPoint as a PowerPoint Show which should open and play automatically, allowing all the embedded links to work correctly. I am going to see what I can do about that.)


----------



## automan26

Try this if you are having trouble with the download. In the upper right corner of the Dropbox page where the PowerPoint opens you will see two boxes...one says SHARE...The next says OPEN WITH.....and next to that there are three dots. Click on the dots and a dropdown box will open with a DOWNLOAD option. Click on the download option and it should save it to your computer.


Automan


----------



## blbhunt2

Man that's great, just clicked the link and BAM it downloaded just like that! I wandered if the one I tried earlier was out of date, but that's latest version I had found so far. Thanks alot Automan!! 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## blbhunt2

Thanks again to Automan for that PowerPoint! If there's anybody new or just someone looking for good information I would highly recommend it. I was mostly interested in the string building section, and I was not disappointed, it's very clear and concise instructions. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## Refletch2

blbhunt2 said:


> thanks again to automan for that powerpoint! If there's anybody new or just someone looking for good information i would highly recommend it. I was mostly interested in the string building section, and i was not disappointed, it's very clear and concise instructions.
> 
> Sent from my xt1254 using tapatalk


2 x ^^^


----------



## automan26

ThanX. I tried to structure it so anyone who wants to learn string building would have everything laid out so they could easily go from an empty bench top and no jig to a jig and finished string. I have plans to give it a major facelift and upgrade next summer.

Automan


----------



## EvilGarfield

Hello,

How many strands do I need in my mercury string for a 36# recurve bow?

Finally got all the parts for my jig and I'm gonna try that out this weekend. 

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Hello,
> 
> How many strands do I need in my mercury string for a 36# recurve bow?
> 
> Finally got all the parts for my jig and I'm gonna try that out this weekend.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


For such a light weight recurve, you would be able to make a pretty skinny string and be okay. It just kind of depends on the nock fit you like. If it were me, I'd use 20-24 depending on what serving size and material you have to work with and what you want your nock fit to be like.


----------



## EvilGarfield

Ok thank you.
Would 20-24 be enough if I go up in poundage to 40-45#?

I have GT nocks with a large groove. Any experience with those? I have Angel magesty. 021 or .018 for Centre serving. I will start with short strings to get the hang of it and try for the best nock fit possible. 

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Ok thank you.
> Would 20-24 be enough if I go up in poundage to 40-45#?
> 
> I have GT nocks with a large groove. Any experience with those? I have Angel magesty. 021 or .018 for Centre serving. I will start with short strings to get the hang of it and try for the best nock fit possible.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


Standard GT nocks are pretty large. I typically like the fit of 28 strands of Fury, analogous to Mercury, with .018 Powergrip or .021" 62xs for those nocks. I'd Imagine a 20-24 strand string with only .021" Majesty may be a bit small for that particular nock. There's nothing that says that you have to use fewer strands with a recurve, just that you don't need as much with a recurve compared to a compound. It might just take some experimenting to find what you like for fit.


----------



## SamT

There's also the option of double serve just in the nocking area with a couple of smaller sizes. 

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> There's also the option of double serve just in the nocking area with a couple of smaller sizes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


That's a good point. Could also run the tag end all the way down the center serving to make it finish larger as well.


----------



## EvilGarfield

Hum good points!
I've also heard that you can add strands under Centre the serving but I du but know how to do it. Would I just cut some string material of the right length, lay them there and then just go over with the serving?
That sounds a bit shaky 

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----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Hum good points!
> I've also heard that you can add strands under Centre the serving but I du but know how to do it. Would I just cut some string material of the right length, lay them there and then just go over with the serving?
> That sounds a bit shaky
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


Yeah that's pretty much it. I've done it but used little spring clamps to hold the extra strand of string material on either end. You could also put the extra strand through the middle of the string bundle and the tension from the stretcher should hold it in place.


----------



## rapids

You can also use plumbers tape and serve over that....just have to experiment with how many wraps and serving size to fit your nock type. Have done this many of times on my Flemish twist strings.


----------



## Refletch2

I have a question about the tag end part. When you grab the tag ends and cross them behind the post, does it matter it those particular strands move out of their respective spots in the bundle? Will it make the string all screwy if they «*come out of track*»? For exemple, on a 22 strand string will have on one side a tag end at the bottom and another at the top of the whole bundle. Took a shot at my 1st attempt last night and seemed to have a hard time keeping them from moving around.


----------



## Huntinsker

Refletch2 said:


> I have a question about the tag end part. When you grab the tag ends and cross them behind the post, does it matter it those particular strands move out of their respective spots in the bundle? Will it make the string all screwy if they «*come out of track*»? For exemple, on a 22 strand string will have on one side a tag end at the bottom and another at the top of the whole bundle. Took a shot at my 1st attempt last night and seemed to have a hard time keeping them from moving around.


Not really but I try to not let it happen. Some will put top tag end over the top and the bottom tag end up through the bottom so they don't cross the other strands. I just don't pull them that tight enough initially to make them roll like that.


----------



## EvilGarfield

Here I am, asking for help again.
There is a formula in the PowerPoint of the jig but it's for compound strings. It has been mentioned here that you guys put less twist in a recurve string than for a compound. But how much less and why? 

How would the string jig initial length formula be modified for recurve strings?

Cheers

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


----------



## Refletch2

Huntinsker said:


> Refletch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question about the tag end part. When you grab the tag ends and cross them behind the post, does it matter it those particular strands move out of their respective spots in the bundle? Will it make the string all screwy if they «*come out of track*»? For exemple, on a 22 strand string will have on one side a tag end at the bottom and another at the top of the whole bundle. Took a shot at my 1st attempt last night and seemed to have a hard time keeping them from moving around.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really but I try to not let it happen. Some will put top tag end over the top and the bottom tag end up through the bottom so they don't cross the other strands. I just don't pull them that tight enough initially to make them roll like that.
Click to expand...

... and you still do it like the original post (both tags over the top and back)?


----------



## Huntinsker

Refletch2 said:


> ... and you still do it like the original post (both tags over the top and back)?


Yeah, it's faster for me that way. I pull them back and just before the bundle rolls, I stop. It doesn't take much practice to figure out how much you can pull or what you can do to adjust the tag ends to get full coverage and not roll the bundle.


----------



## K.G.K.

Can I reserve a center serving on an existing string without adversely affecting or perpetuating string/peep rotation ?

Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Here I am, asking for help again.
> There is a formula in the PowerPoint of the jig but it's for compound strings. It has been mentioned here that you guys put less twist in a recurve string than for a compound. But how much less and why?
> 
> How would the string jig initial length formula be modified for recurve strings?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


Most recurve string builders build the string to the final length with no twists. They are planning on the string stretching while on the bow and will add twists after that happens. Kind of a dumb way to do it in my opinion, so I build them to the final length just like a compound string but use a lesser twist rate so that the shooter can add more if they need. I do about one twist to every 2-2.5 inches. So to modify the formula, you'd take the twist rate variable and change it to .5 or so. So it would be .5*.012+final length = initial post setting. Of course that takes experimentation to figure out the exact formula that works for you.


----------



## mattafliving

Since this is where I began my string building career. I feel like this is a great place to begin to offer a great new material. It’s called Bloodline Fibers. This is a waxless bowstrings material offered in two separate lines. 

Bloodline fibers technology is based around its coating technology. The coating it self is abrasion resistant, water resistant, and temperature stabile. The coating is chemical and mechanically bonded to the fiber vs just coating the fiber. I’ve been helping develop this material for over 2 years and have found it to be superior to other competitors. 

Bloodline99 is 100% Dyneema sk99

Vec99 is dyneema sk99 and 36% vectran 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EvilGarfield

Ok, almost there. The string is well underway. I will post pics from my jig and first string as soon as I'm done. 
You guys have been of tremendous help! 

. I just have to do the serving now. I like your trick with the painter's tape.
Is it important how far from the serving I put the tape? I imagine that the further away it is, the less it will twist with a given jig tension?

I had to add quite a few twist more than calculated with the formula and now the two strands of my served, non closed end loops (recurve string) are twisting. Should I put a tee to force the twist further down the string before closing the loops with serving or should I just serve over the twists?

Cheers

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


----------



## patches2565

I'm nervous as crap. I just finished my strings and now have to tune. ATA is good and so is brace so that's a confidence booster. I just hope 12 hours of relaxation helps. Also when i put it on the bow it looked like it needed to stretch a bit. Is that normal?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> I'm nervous as crap. I just finished my strings and now have to tune. ATA is good and so is brace so that's a confidence booster. I just hope 12 hours of relaxation helps. Also when i put it on the bow it looked like it needed to stretch a bit. Is that normal?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Not sure what you mean by it looked like it needed to stretch a bit but all the stretching should be done on your jig before it goes on the bow. The string/cables will need to adjust to fit the cam tracks but a shot or two quickly takes care of that. You shouldn't need to relax the string/cable set while it's on the bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Ok, almost there. The string is well underway. I will post pics from my jig and first string as soon as I'm done.
> You guys have been of tremendous help!
> 
> . I just have to do the serving now. I like your trick with the painter's tape.
> Is it important how far from the serving I put the tape? I imagine that the further away it is, the less it will twist with a given jig tension?
> 
> I had to add quite a few twist more than calculated with the formula and now the two strands of my served, non closed end loops (recurve string) are twisting. Should I put a tee to force the twist further down the string before closing the loops with serving or should I just serve over the twists?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


Honestly, for a recurve string, where the shooter won't be using a peep sight, you don't have to worry about how much the string rotates while serving. That's only important for when you're trying to prevent peep sight rotation. You don't want to go crazy with the tension but go ahead and serve it tight and smooth and you'll be good to go. It may not hurt to try and even out the loop ends so they're not twisting up into the loop, that way it's easy to get on the limb tips and for the top to slide up the limb for stringing. Remember to adjust your formula since you came out long and had to add twists to this one. I'm sure the next string you'll nail it.


----------



## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> Not sure what you mean by it looked like it needed to stretch a bit but all the stretching should be done on your jig before it goes on the bow. The string/cables will need to adjust to fit the cam tracks but a shot or two quickly takes care of that. You shouldn't need to relax the string/cable set while it's on the bow.


I just meant that the string once under the tension of the bow looked better. Since I kept it in my fridged garage it got a bit stiff. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Can I reserve a center serving on an existing string without adversely affecting or perpetuating string/peep rotation ?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Shouldn't be a problem at all. Just clamp it tight and don't let the string twist too much while serving. Best to take the peep out too because most will go oval if you put them under too much pressure.


----------



## K.G.K.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## EvilGarfield

I would like to start by thanking everyone here that participated to the thread and made string building much easier for newbies!

Thanks to all you guys, I finally finished my first string.
It is a 28 strands (I have large groove nocks) recurve string for a 36#bow. I made it with mercury flo orange and flow red. Black and flo green are underway to my house for the next string so I can add a high contrast pinestripe. Here are some pictures:




















The build process went fine for the most part. As expected, the formula was not perfect and I have to tune it to my set-up. I had to add 15 turns (had planned 40, ended at 55) witch resulted in a 0.82 twists/inch. I hope that this high twist count will not affect performance too much. 

My major struggle (might be due to the high twist count) as closing the end loops. I served the loops on the 4 post jig, moved to the 2 post, stretched, twisted and then closed the loops by serving towards the post. As you can see in the picture below, there is some twist under my serving where the loop closes. And I could not use the method of laying a loop of material around the post to finish the serving because it broke my serving strand twice. 








And here is my string jig. I modified from the original post because I wanted the 4 post jig for easier end loop serving and because Unistrut was hard to find where I live. Instead it's made out of extruded aluminum profiles. I'm happy to report that even at 300lbs, the main beam does not visibly flex. The only part that could be more rigid is the 4 post jig but I just laid out the bundles with minimal tension and it was ok! I'm happy to answer any question on the jig! 








Now last question: should I wax my string just once or do it recularly?


----------



## nestly

EvilGarfield said:


> And here is my string jig. I modified from the original post because I wanted the 4 post jig for easier end loop serving and because Unistrut was hard to find where I live. Instead it's made out of extruded aluminum profiles. I'm happy to report that even at 300lbs, the main beam does not visibly flex. The only part that could be more rigid is the 4 post jig but I just laid out the bundles with minimal tension and it was ok! I'm happy to answer any question on the jig!
> View attachment 6714243


Nice job on the T-slot jig. I love that stuff, it's so easy to work with and connectors to do just about anything.


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> I would like to start by thanking everyone here that participated to the thread and made string building much easier for newbies!
> 
> Thanks to all you guys, I finally finished my first string.
> It is a 28 strands (I have large groove nocks) recurve string for a 36#bow. I made it with mercury flo orange and flow red. Black and flo green are underway to my house for the next string so I can add a high contrast pinestripe. Here are some pictures:
> View attachment 6714229
> View attachment 6714231
> View attachment 6714225
> 
> 
> The build process went fine for the most part. As expected, the formula was not perfect and I have to tune it to my set-up. I had to add 15 turns (had planned 40, ended at 55) witch resulted in a 0.82 twists/inch. I hope that this high twist count will not affect performance too much.
> 
> My major struggle (might be due to the high twist count) as closing the end loops. I served the loops on the 4 post jig, moved to the 2 post, stretched, twisted and then closed the loops by serving towards the post. As you can see in the picture below, there is some twist under my serving where the loop closes. And I could not use the method of laying a loop of material around the post to finish the serving because it broke my serving strand twice.
> View attachment 6714227
> 
> 
> And here is my string jig. I modified from the original post because I wanted the 4 post jig for easier end loop serving and because Unistrut was hard to find where I live. Instead it's made out of extruded aluminum profiles. I'm happy to report that even at 300lbs, the main beam does not visibly flex. The only part that could be more rigid is the 4 post jig but I just laid out the bundles with minimal tension and it was ok! I'm happy to answer any question on the jig!
> View attachment 6714243
> 
> 
> Now last question: should I wax my string just once or do it recularly?


Great looking results on your first string. I've seen a lot of factory and aftermarket endless loop recurve strings and many of those don't have as nice of transition that you have going onto the loop as your first one does. Well done and they'll only get easier and smoother here on out. I'm not sure if you did this or not but if you stagger your loop serving ends so that they're 1/8-3/16" apart, the step up will be smaller and the transition will be smoother as the end serving goes onto the loop. That's the hardest part for most new builders.

Another trick is to reduce tension on the stretcher and then reduce tension slightly on the serving bobbing while going up the loop. That way the loop still pulls together nicely but the serving that you're laying down doesn't bite into the loop serving as much and lays down smoother. I typically will decrease the stretcher tension to 150-175lbs and that seems to be enough tension to keep things stable but not so much that I can't get the loop to come together. Of course just like everything string building, your results may be different.


----------



## EvilGarfield

Huntinsker said:


> I'm not sure if you did this or not but if you stagger your loop serving ends so that they're 1/8-3/16" apart, the step up will be smaller and the transition will be smoother as the end serving goes onto the loop. That's the hardest part for most new builders.


Yes did that and it does help! 



Huntinsker said:


> Another trick is to reduce tension on the stretcher and then reduce tension slightly on the serving bobbing while going up the loop. That way the loop still pulls together nicely but the serving that you're laying down doesn't bite into the loop serving as much and lays down smoother. I typically will decrease the stretcher tension to 150-175lbs and that seems to be enough tension to keep things stable but not so much that I can't get the loop to come together. Of course just like everything string building, your results may be different.


That I did not do. I left the jig at 300lbs and indeed my closing serving did bite into the loop serving. I had quite high tension on my serving jig because I was afraid that the serving would come loose if that part was not tight enough. I will try to go down with both srting and serving jig for this part. This might also solve the issues I had with the serving thread breaking when pulling it with the loose loop. 

Thanks for the tricks!


----------



## Hunter Hr.

Guys is anyone use brownell mini serving for end string area or over cams? How much is durable?


----------



## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> Guys is anyone use brownell mini serving for end string area or over cams? How much is durable?


I have not personally used it but it is reportedly very similar to BCY 2x. They are a 2 strand twisted material. Not as strong as 3d and not as durable as a braided serving but for string ends on most bows, it should do okay. I've heard it serves pretty small so the finished diameter would probably be smaller than with .014 Halo for instance which on a tight cam track may be desirable.


----------



## Refletch2

I didn't see any post on this subject and wonder if it's just me but I will ask anyway.... While I was building my 1st test string I had a very hard time measuring the length without the tape measure wanting to roll off the post all the time. It was such a pain the the butt and made it very hard to be accurate. I was onlt making a 54" string so I can't imagine trying with anything longer (without a buddy to old the other end of the tape on the post  ). I ended up leaving the heads on the bolts so can't measure from the top, anyone have ideas on how to fight this problem? I'm sure it will be a "stupid fix" and I thank you ahead of time and apologize for my lack of ingenuity...


----------



## Rids

You can buy, or make, a little device that attaches onto the hook end of you tape measure that will hook onto the post. They aren't by any means fool-proof but it can make it easier to measure from post-to-post. Baker Archery Products has one that comes to mind.


----------



## automan26

Refletch2 said:


> I didn't see any post on this subject and wonder if it's just me but I will ask anyway.... While I was building my 1st test string I had a very hard time measuring the length without the tape measure wanting to roll off the post all the time. It was such a pain the the butt and made it very hard to be accurate. I was onlt making a 54" string so I can't imagine trying with anything longer (without a buddy to old the other end of the tape on the post  ). I ended up leaving the heads on the bolts so can't measure from the top, anyone have ideas on how to fight this problem? I'm sure it will be a "stupid fix" and I thank you ahead of time and apologize for my lack of ingenuity...


I solve this by laying my posts over about 45 degrees and let gravity hold the tape on the post.

Automan


----------



## Refletch2

Rids said:


> You can buy, or make, a little device that attaches onto the hook end of you tape measure that will hook onto the post. They aren't by any means fool-proof but it can make it easier to measure from post-to-post. Baker Archery Products has one that comes to mind.


Yea I saw the gadget on a Youtube video but trying to find a more DYI "don't need to order" solution. Thanks for the reply rapids, it might just come to that...



automan26 said:


> I solve this by laying my posts over about 45 degrees and let gravity hold the tape on the post.
> 
> Automan


Now that sounds like a great/easy solution! Turning the posts 45* after the layout won't affect anything? You do it only at one end or both? Thanks Automan!


----------



## mattafliving

You can also take a wire hangar, or some copper wire, cut off a small section of it long enough to loop it around the end of your tape measure. With the ends of the wire bend then to make hooks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## automan26

Refletch2 said:


> Yea I saw the gadget on a Youtube video but trying to find a more DYI "don't need to order" solution. Thanks for the reply rapids, it might just come to that...
> 
> 
> 
> Now that sounds like a great/easy solution! Turning the posts 45* after the layout won't affect anything? You do it only at one end or both? Thanks Automan!


45 degrees will not affect anything, just make sure that the adjusting nuts turn with the carriage bolts so your measurement does not change, but with only 45 degrees rotation, that is not much of an issue. I rotate the posts equally at both ends of the jig.

Automan


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## Refletch2

Thanks again!


----------



## bowbrothersmdb

Refletch2 said:


> I didn't see any post on this subject and wonder if it's just me but I will ask anyway.... While I was building my 1st test string I had a very hard time measuring the length without the tape measure wanting to roll off the post all the time. It was such a pain the the butt and made it very hard to be accurate. I was onlt making a 54" string so I can't imagine trying with anything longer (without a buddy to old the other end of the tape on the post  ). I ended up leaving the heads on the bolts so can't measure from the top, anyone have ideas on how to fight this problem? I'm sure it will be a "stupid fix" and I thank you ahead of time and apologize for my lack of ingenuity...


My inelegant solution to this problem requires super glue, filler (bicarb works) and paper clips














Open up the paper clip, make a loop big enough to go over your post then glue it to the tape. The loop can be adjusted with pliers as needed. The tail on the opposite side of the loop makes it easy to measure an arrow from bottom of nock groove.

The small piece of arrow on the red tape stops the retraction from slamming into the loop and bending it!


----------



## PowerLineman83

Hey guys, I’ve got some BCY Mercury for sale in the classifieds if anyone needs any. I’ll make you a good deal just shoot me a PM.

I also have some .014” Halo(no black or white) and a bunch of black 2x.





















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rapids

Refletch2 said:


> I didn't see any post on this subject and wonder if it's just me but I will ask anyway.... While I was building my 1st test string I had a very hard time measuring the length without the tape measure wanting to roll off the post all the time. It was such a pain the the butt and made it very hard to be accurate. I was onlt making a 54" string so I can't imagine trying with anything longer (without a buddy to old the other end of the tape on the post  ). I ended up leaving the heads on the bolts so can't measure from the top, anyone have ideas on how to fight this problem? I'm sure it will be a "stupid fix" and I thank you ahead of time and apologize for my lack of ingenuity...[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s the tape measure that I modified. Took off the lipend and used two small bolt & nuts to attach a T-shape piece of metal to the back side of the tape measure.


----------



## SamT

I took a piece of small wire and made a loop; then I folded the narrow tape over it at the appropriate location; then glued it with a hot melt glue gun.














Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


----------



## Refletch2

bowbrothersmdb said:


> Refletch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see any post on this subject and wonder if it's just me but I will ask anyway.... While I was building my 1st test string I had a very hard time measuring the length without the tape measure wanting to roll off the post all the time. It was such a pain the the butt and made it very hard to be accurate. I was onlt making a 54" string so I can't imagine trying with anything longer (without a buddy to old the other end of the tape on the post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I ended up leaving the heads on the bolts so can't measure from the top, anyone have ideas on how to fight this problem? I'm sure it will be a "stupid fix" and I thank you ahead of time and apologize for my lack of ingenuity...
> 
> 
> 
> My inelegant solution to this problem requires super glue, filler (bicarb works) and paper clips
> View attachment 6715397
> 
> View attachment 6715399
> 
> Open up the paper clip, make a loop big enough to go over your post then glue it to the tape. The loop can be adjusted with pliers as needed. The tail on the opposite side of the loop makes it easy to measure an arrow from bottom of nock groove.
> 
> The small piece of arrow on the red tape stops the retraction from slamming into the loop and bending it!
Click to expand...




rapids said:


> Refletch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see any post on this subject and wonder if it's just me but I will ask anyway.... While I was building my 1st test string I had a very hard time measuring the length without the tape measure wanting to roll off the post all the time. It was such a pain the the butt and made it very hard to be accurate. I was onlt making a 54" string so I can't imagine trying with anything longer (without a buddy to old the other end of the tape on the post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I ended up leaving the heads on the bolts so can't measure from the top, anyone have ideas on how to fight this problem? I'm sure it will be a "stupid fix" and I thank you ahead of time and apologize for my lack of ingenuity...[/QUOTE
> View attachment 6715767
> 
> 
> Here’s the tape measure that I modified. Took off the lipend and used two small bolt & nuts to attach a T-shape piece of metal to the back side of the tape measure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SamT said:
> 
> 
> 
> I took a piece of small wire and made a loop; then I folded the narrow tape over it at the appropriate location; then glued it with a hot melt glue gun.
> View attachment 6716117
> View attachment 6716119
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool ideas guys! Thanks for sharing!
Click to expand...


----------



## Scubaalan




----------



## Scubaalan

Pop rivet and scrap aluminum sheet left over from the aviation days will make a nice tape measure that
will not slip off post.


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## Bownut400

My tape plate hook. 
I made these so when the tape breaks it’s a quick change out to the new tape. 
Tapes seem to end up against the wall at a high rate is speed after the third mess up.








Hope this helps.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## blbhunt2

Bownut400 said:


> My tape plate hook.
> I made these so when the tape breaks it’s a quick change out to the new tape.
> Tapes seem to end up against the wall at a high rate is speed after the third mess up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's my favorite there! I think I'm going to do that, although I don't plan on mine hitting the wall..... 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## doulos

Anybody using 2x for end serving? Whats your opinion? My research turns up differing opinions. Just want a cheaper option than Halo.


----------



## PowerLineman83

doulos said:


> Anybody using 2x for end serving? Whats your opinion? My research turns up differing opinions. Just want a cheaper option than Halo.


Works great for shooting strings. No bueno for cable ends.

If you want to try some shoot me a PM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## caspian

I use a little hobby sized spring clamp to hold the tape on a post. hook the tape, clamp around the post onto the tape, done. the tape can't escape off the post and it's metal-on-metal so no length adjustments to deal with, and you still have your unaltered tape for other work.

https://www.pjtool.com/media/catalo...0ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/1/1/115220.jpg


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## nestly

doulos said:


> Anybody using 2x for end serving? Whats your opinion? My research turns up differing opinions. Just want a cheaper option than Halo.


I like 2X for end servings because it's inexpensive and finishes smaller than Halo, but it's not very grippy and tends to separate on some bows/cam systems so I'm moving away from it.


----------



## doulos

nestly said:


> I like 2X for end servings because it's inexpensive and finishes smaller than Halo, but it's not very grippy and tends to separate on some bows/cam systems so I'm moving away from it.


How about 3d for end servings? Ive only used halo. And I cant complain about how it holds up thats for sure. Its just over the top price wise.


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## PowerLineman83

doulos said:


> How about 3d for end servings? Ive only used halo. And I cant complain about how it holds up thats for sure. Its just over the top price wise.


Same thing, it is good for shooting string end servings. Stick to a braided spectra/Dyneema for your cable ends.

Guys get hung up on wanting ONE end serving.... that’s fine, make it Halo or Bullwhip and call it a day. But you’re going to spend a fair piece more just to have one end serving material. Not worth it to me. I use what’s appropriate for the area I’m serving.

Take it or leave it, those are just my thoughts..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## doulos

Thanks Power Lineman and nestly
I appreciate the help


----------



## robinhood560

Just built this jig. Pretty straightforward on putting it together. I had problems finding the McMaster-Carr spring, but was able to get a comparable spring from Grainger. It is a 
Raymond spring and the part number is 44U548. Hope this helps if anyone has trouble finding the spring.


----------



## Scubaalan

I wanted to show my take of the jig with all the help from this thread especially auto man and Huntsinker. 
Sorry about the ugly ass welds. I only owe a cheap harbor freight welder.


----------



## Scubaalan




----------



## Scubaalan

Sorry about the upside down photo.


----------



## automan26

robinhood560 said:


> Just built this jig. Pretty straightforward on putting it together. I had problems finding the McMaster-Carr spring, but was able to get a comparable spring from Grainger. It is a
> Raymond spring and the part number is 44U548. Hope this helps if anyone has trouble finding the spring.


What problem did you have getting the McMaster spring? I am interested because I plan to build 12 of these jigs next summer and if there is a supply problem I will need to start looking around at the Raymond clone.

Automan


----------



## blbhunt2

Just looked it up, popped right up. Part #9573K81 on McMaster Carr

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## automan26

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7qr4dacgxoa5xx/El-Cheap-O 3.24.ppsx?dl=0

This afternoon I reviewed my tutorial and found some small, but significant things that needed clarification. I made some minor changes and I would recommend that anyone who has previously downloaded the PowerPoint tutorial to download this updated version.

Dropbox does not allow downloading to many phones, so I highly recommend downloading the tutorial to a desktop or laptop computer. I have put the Dropbox link above, and it is also contained in my signature below.

Automan


----------



## bear bows

thanks auto 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## robinhood560

No real problem!! Just found the Raymond springs at Grainger. Thought that it might help someone!!!


----------



## Refletch2

I would like to give a shout out to Huntingsker and automan26 for this great thread. I read the whole thing a few years back and only recently got the necassary parts and build myself a jig. My Hoyt charger was in desperate need of a new set of strings which it now has and I made them myself! Who would’ve thought??! I ended up wrecking my 1st string but on the 2nd try I made a complete set of string and cables and slapped them on the bow. I learned a lot from this thread and all the videos I have watched on YouTube but even more while making an actual string on this jig. I have tested and found the tensile strength limit of 0.14” halo serving material (at the end of a 17” serving which really sucked! 🤬) I still need to work on my tag end serving as they are far from what I have seen on here yet but other than that the bow is right into specs and so far doesn’t show any sigh of peep rotation. Made them all Flo orange because my 2nd colour spool never made it in but as soon as it does I will be making another set (2 colour this time). This really is an addictive hobby, i might end up with a bunch of spare set of strings for this bow!!! 😃

Thanks again to everyone who are sharing on this great thread, this is awesome!!! 👍


----------



## eddiethehunter

Nice!


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## automan26

I was asked in a PM to explain how I transfer my Spectra fishing line to a spool so I can get it on my serving bobbin. Rather than search through all my posts to find some pics I used awhile back, I decided to find the pics and post them here. Maybe some others have not seen this and can benefit from reposting them again. The pics are pretty straight forward. About the only thing that needs clarification would be the nuts pictured on top of the empty fishing line spool. These 3/8" nuts that are used to take up space inside the spool so the spool will fit better around the 5/16" carriage bolt. They work great because the flare on the bottom of the nut makes a nice stop for the nut when it is pounded into the holes in the fishing line spool. One of the pics shows wingnuts on top of the large spool, but later I chose to go with lock nuts to keep things snug. 

Automan


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## doulos

Thanks
automan26


----------



## Huntinsker

Refletch2 said:


> I would like to give a shout out to Huntingsker and automan26 for this great thread. I read the whole thing a few years back and only recently got the necassary parts and build myself a jig. My Hoyt charger was in desperate need of a new set of strings which it now has and I made them myself! Who would’ve thought??! I ended up wrecking my 1st string but on the 2nd try I made a complete set of string and cables and slapped them on the bow. I learned a lot from this thread and all the videos I have watched on YouTube but even more while making an actual string on this jig. I have tested and found the tensile strength limit of 0.14” halo serving material (at the end of a 17” serving which really sucked! &#55358;&#56620 I still need to work on my tag end serving as they are far from what I have seen on here yet but other than that the bow is right into specs and so far doesn’t show any sigh of peep rotation. Made them all Flo orange because my 2nd colour spool never made it in but as soon as it does I will be making another set (2 colour this time). This really is an addictive hobby, i might end up with a bunch of spare set of strings for this bow!!! &#55357;&#56835;
> 
> Thanks again to everyone who are sharing on this great thread, this is awesome!!! &#55357;&#56397;


That's awesome! Good job. First set and no peep rotation. I've installed strings from every major builder out there and I've seen peep rotation from them all and they've built thousands of sets. Goes to show what a little attention to detail can get ya.


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## William Simmons

Awesome tips! I really appreciate the detailed guidance. I always wanted to make my own compound bow string, but I couldn't find any comprehensive guide covering this topic. 

I will try out these steps. Hopefully, when I am experienced enough, I can gain consistency and stability while making a shot.


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## rabada52546

Good Post!


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## Kaveman44

im triyng to get my center serving just right and something odd happened , i put Halo .017 first and them i put 62x .018 and it was actually smaller, Any suggestions , i use 28 strands of Fury and like to use the large Easton g nock. the .017 halo is just a tiny big, can't find a .016 serving ,Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## PowerLineman83

Kaveman44 said:


> im triyng to get my center serving just right and something odd happened , i put Halo .017 first and them i put 62x .018 and it was actually smaller, Any suggestions , i use 28 strands of Fury and like to use the large Easton g nock. the .017 halo is just a tiny big, can't find a .016 serving ,Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Served tightly, 62xs will tend to do that.. seems to “flatten” out opposed to Halo keeping its shape. 

To answer your question directly, I would pad your center serving... what does that mean? Once you’re up to tension, add a few strands between your posts. Just tie them off temporarily, then serve your center over them, testing for nock fit until you get it correct. Once you have your fit correct, cut the additional strands at each end of your center serving.

OR.... what I would do is add a couple strands to your overall bundle...

OR... you could try yet another serving.

One other thing to try with your Halo is serve it tighter... you may get that slight reduction in finished diameter you’re looking for.

There are LOTS of ways to get what you’re after...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Refletch2

Hey guys, I am getting setup to add some rotating arms to my jig for a 4 post setup and take a shot at served loops. My question for you all is what is (if any) the required length between the post on each arms? Is there a specific distance that works best for the layup if you were to lay up with the arms already rotated?

Thanks in advance!


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## flopearedmule

*Black Sharpie*

Hey guys, what is everyone using to mark your measurements? I have been using a black sharpie, but now I'm getting into different serving colors and it makes the string look dirty. (I'm thinking of buying a laser line.... like on a miter saw and make it slide above me to make my mark. Might need two lasers)
The white .007 for the served loops is great! and they look much better! I bought some of the cheap white spider wire for this purpose.
I figured out a good way to do served loops using my two post jig. I don't remember seeing it anywhere on this thread, but I've had good luck and I can use 100lbs of tension.
Thanks Huntingsker and automan26 for this great thread. Also Butch and Lance for the great videos on youtube. Without the videos, I don't think I would have tried making strings.


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## Refletch2

Golfnut1969 said:


> If you got the correct spring, it should be factory calibrated. This 2 inch spring (https://www.mcmaster.com/9573K81), has a compression rate is 530 lbs per inch. I can't recall where I found this chart for determining load based on the amount of compression, but here it is. I'd be curious to see how accurate it is, as I don't have a scale accurate enough to know.
> 
> 2" = 0 lbs
> 1[SUP]7/8[/SUP]" = 100 lbs
> 1[SUP]5/8[/SUP]" = 200 lbs
> 1[SUP]1/2[/SUP]" = 300 lbs
> 1[SUP]3/8[/SUP]" = 350 lbs
> 1" = 530 lbs


Hey Golfnut, I did the test on this tonight with my digital caliper and here is what I got:

100lbs @ 1.901" (a hair > than 1 7/8)
300lbs @ 1.756" (+/- 1 3/4")
350lbs @ 1.508" (+/- 1 1/2")

Although I compressed down on the string a few times while doing this I still think there could be some binding going on where the threaded rod goes through the angles causing the load to go up without the spring compressing... Since you hardy never do any adjustments from that end of the jig, It would probably be possible to remove a section of the threads on that rod (for +/- 1" where it goes through and have a smoother and more precise load reading???


----------



## bowbrothersmdb

flopearedmule said:


> Hey guys, what is everyone using to mark your measurements? I have been using a black sharpie, but now I'm getting into different serving colors and it makes the string look dirty. (I'm thinking of buying a laser line.... like on a miter saw and make it slide above me to make my mark. Might need two lasers)
> The white .007 for the served loops is great! and they look much better! I bought some of the cheap white spider wire for this purpose.
> I figured out a good way to do served loops using my two post jig. I don't remember seeing it anywhere on this thread, but I've had good luck and I can use 100lbs of tension.
> Thanks Huntingsker and automan26 for this great thread. Also Butch and Lance for the great videos on youtube. Without the videos, I don't think I would have tried making strings.


I use a tippex (white out?) pen to mark string. It scrapes off fairly easily if needed.

A bit OT but what are you covering your press fingers with? And how long does it hold up compared to the LCA ones?


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## Huntinsker

Kaveman44 said:


> im triyng to get my center serving just right and something odd happened , i put Halo .017 first and them i put 62x .018 and it was actually smaller, Any suggestions , i use 28 strands of Fury and like to use the large Easton g nock. the .017 halo is just a tiny big, can't find a .016 serving ,Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Not all serving is created equal. Tight braids like Halo, Bullwhip and Powergrip will hold their shape better under tension so they may actually serve larger than their twisted or more loosely braided counterparts. 

Halo/Bullwhip serves larger than 62xs, Powergrip serves larger than Halo/Bullwhip. 

You may try .014" PG and see how that fits I have .018 62xs and .014 PG but I haven't actually measured them on the same piece to see which serves larger. Putting a caliper on my .014 powergrip center serving on top of my 28 strands of Fury string, the finished diameter is .105-.106". You could measure your .017 Halo and .018 62xs and see if the .014 PG might not be what you're looking for.


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## Huntinsker

flopearedmule said:


> Hey guys, what is everyone using to mark your measurements? I have been using a black sharpie, but now I'm getting into different serving colors and it makes the string look dirty. (I'm thinking of buying a laser line.... like on a miter saw and make it slide above me to make my mark. Might need two lasers)
> The white .007 for the served loops is great! and they look much better! I bought some of the cheap white spider wire for this purpose.
> I figured out a good way to do served loops using my two post jig. I don't remember seeing it anywhere on this thread, but I've had good luck and I can use 100lbs of tension.
> Thanks Huntingsker and automan26 for this great thread. Also Butch and Lance for the great videos on youtube. Without the videos, I don't think I would have tried making strings.


Looks like a sweet setup you have there! I personally don't mark on the string for where to start and stop serving. I just start the serving and before I cinch it down tight, I measure and move it to where I want. Do the same when I'm close to the stopping point. Occasionally I'll tie a piece of scrap material around the bundle where I want to stop so I can see when I'm close.


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## PowerLineman83

flopearedmule said:


> Hey guys, what is everyone using to mark your measurements? I have been using a black sharpie, but now I'm getting into different serving colors and it makes the string look dirty. (I'm thinking of buying a laser line.... like on a miter saw and make it slide above me to make my mark. Might need two lasers)
> The white .007 for the served loops is great! and they look much better! I bought some of the cheap white spider wire for this purpose.
> I figured out a good way to do served loops using my two post jig. I don't remember seeing it anywhere on this thread, but I've had good luck and I can use 100lbs of tension.
> Thanks Huntingsker and automan26 for this great thread. Also Butch and Lance for the great videos on youtube. Without the videos, I don't think I would have tried making strings.


I’ve used sharpie, masking tape and then just guess and use my tape measure to check.

I’ve heard of some folks using chalk because it comes off easily and doesn’t leave residue. 

Hope this helps!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## flopearedmule

bowbrothersmdb said:


> I use a tippex (white out?) pen to mark string. It scrapes off fairly easily if needed.
> 
> A bit OT but what are you covering your press fingers with? And how long does it hold up compared to the LCA ones?


I bought the heavy duty electrical shrink wrap from McMaster Carr. The bow press is a copied version of Last Chance, only with Timken roller bearings and an Acme lead screw.


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## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker and Automan are The best! They have both been a great help in everything archery, have helped me so much in not just string making but anything technical, from sourcing materials to shooting to, you name it everything.


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## NoviceAddicted

flopearedmule said:


> Hey guys, what is everyone using to mark your measurements? I have been using a black sharpie, but now I'm getting into different serving colors and it makes the string look dirty. (I'm thinking of buying a laser line.... like on a miter saw and make it slide above me to make my mark. Might need two lasers)
> The white .007 for the served loops is great! and they look much better! I bought some of the cheap white spider wire for this purpose.
> I figured out a good way to do served loops using my two post jig. I don't remember seeing it anywhere on this thread, but I've had good luck and I can use 100lbs of tension.
> Thanks Huntingsker and automan26 for this great thread. Also Butch and Lance for the great videos on youtube. Without the videos, I don't think I would have tried making strings.


Someone told me about using painters tape here and have been using that, will never go back to sharpies. You can use masking tape too I think basically same deal for strings. Just make sure you press tape together good, so it doesn't slide, double check your measurements and it's great. After starting your serving, locking serving in tight you can just tear the piece of tape off, no muss no fuss no marks on strings.


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## nestly

NoviceAddicted said:


> Someone told me about using painters tape here and have been using that, will never go back to sharpies. You can use masking tape too I think basically same deal for strings. Just make sure you press tape together good, so it doesn't slide, double check your measurements and it's great. After starting your serving, locking serving in tight you can just tear the piece of tape off, no muss no fuss no marks on strings.


I use blue painters tape and probably mentioned it here. No marks on the string PLUS no color mixing/color bleed when back-wrapping servings of a different color because you back-wrap on the tape not the string

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> Huntinsker and Automan are The best! They have both been a great help in everything archery, have helped me so much in not just string making but anything technical, from sourcing materials to shooting to, you name it everything.


Glad to be able to help when I can.

On a side note. We're over 6500 posts in this thread and have gone over 750,000 views. For AT, that's amazing to have a thread so consistently referenced and the discussion going this long. Cheers folks. :cheers:


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## automan26

Last week I sold a jig to ElPedro and it arrived on Friday. Today is Wednesday and he has been busy on his new jig, building strings. He sent me a two pics of what he has been doing today and told me that I should feel free to post them here and to tell others that he would be willing to talk to anyone who is just about ready to jump into string building, but is still a bit hesitant about whether or not they can grasp the task. Just a couple weeks ago ElPedro knew nothing about building strings and look what he is cranking out today. If I had built these strings, I would have no trouble at all signing my name to them and showing them off as an example of my skill, but here is something a newbie cranked out and already he is building threads at a level that took me years to reach. 

The string on the left is stretching on his jig as we speak. The string on the right, I believe, is a test string he built to find the color combo he liked best. Already he is building awesome pinstripes that can stand shoulder-to-shoulder to what the big boys are producing.

Just recently another AT member was cranking out similar threads within hours of receiving his jig in the mail. If you are skeptical as to your ability to learn this very fulfilling skill, look at these pics and put your fears to rest.

Automan


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## automan26

Correction...If you are viewing this on your phone, the string in the top pic is the one stretching and the bottom is the test string. I typed this on a laptop and the pics display differently than on my phone.

Automan


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## Homebrew454

Huntinsker said:


> Glad to be able to help when I can.
> 
> On a side note. We're over 6500 posts in this thread and have gone over 750,000 views. For AT, that's amazing to have a thread so consistently referenced and the discussion going this long. Cheers folks. :cheers:


Also the thread has been going since August of 2013!!! Thanks again to everyone. I have been happy with my strings I made. I just need to get a little better at serving my cables as they seem to separate... But I am shooting a bowtech RPM 360 which is notorious for this issue.

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## Frank-the-5th

My take on the jig. I thought it’d be easier to grind off the top of the eye bolts as opposed to drilling as I don’t have access to a drill press. Works great. Thank you all for the inspiration [emoji1303]










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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> My take on the jig. I thought it’d be easier to grind off the top of the eye bolts as opposed to drilling as I don’t have access to a drill press. Works great. Thank you all for the inspiration [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like a great stretcher. One thing you may encounter is difficulty keeping even tension on the strands you're laying out on the hooks. Since the hooks have a radius, each wrap you put above the next will be a slightly different length than the one before it. If you use some of the smaller diameter materials like Fury, or X99, your middle wraps will definitely be shorter than the outer wraps. This could lead to peep twist and other instability problems. 

If you get a chance, you may consider making a straight vertical post for your layouts to mitigate that problem. You could maybe grind the inside of the hook straight some how I suppose.


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## automan26

Frank-the-5th said:


> My take on the jig. I thought it’d be easier to grind off the top of the eye bolts as opposed to drilling as I don’t have access to a drill press. Works great. Thank you all for the inspiration [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1740149&p=1063900705#post1063900705

Here is an extremely simple modification to your design that will improve it greatly. I really like post #40. 

Automan


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## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Looks like a great stretcher. One thing you may encounter is difficulty keeping even tension on the strands you're laying out on the hooks. Since the hooks have a radius, each wrap you put above the next will be a slightly different length than the one before it. If you use some of the smaller diameter materials like Fury, or X99, your middle wraps will definitely be shorter than the outer wraps. This could lead to peep twist and other instability problems.
> 
> If you get a chance, you may consider making a straight vertical post for your layouts to mitigate that problem. You could maybe grind the inside of the hook straight some how I suppose.


What about using a square file and filing a flat spot that’s a half inch or so? 


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## Frank-the-5th

automan26 said:


> https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1740149&p=1063900705#post1063900705
> 
> Here is an extremely simple modification to your design that will improve it greatly. I really like post #40.
> 
> Automan


Great idea using the u bolt, I’m gonna swing by the hardware store and see if they have some. 


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## automan26

One thing to keep in mind...The hook you are using and the U-bolt are 3/8" in diameter. String length is measured across 1/4" posts. Your jig will build the string just a tic long, but if you add about 3 or 4 more twists you should be close enough that you can install it on the bow and tweak it a tad to get the bow in spec.

Automan


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## automan26

Now that I think about it, you could build the string about 1/8" short according to the measurements across your jig posts and you will come very close to your target spec.

Automan.


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## Frank-the-5th

automan26 said:


> Now that I think about it, you could build the string about 1/8" short according to the measurements across your jig posts and you will come very close to your target spec.
> 
> Automan.


The bolts I’m using are actually 1/2 inch, would I just make it a quarter inch short in that case? 


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## Frank-the-5th

Why does it make a difference measuring on 1/4 inch posts versus bigger ones? Aren’t you just measuring the inside of the loops essentially? 


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> What about using a square file and filing a flat spot that’s a half inch or so?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Frank-the-5th said:


> Why does it make a difference measuring on 1/4 inch posts versus bigger ones? Aren’t you just measuring the inside of the loops essentially?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The square file might work. Would probably take a lot of filing though. 

The reason you measure on a 1/4" post is because that is the industry standard. 1/4" posts, tensioned to 100lbs and measure from outside to outside of the posts. If you're using 1/2" posts, you may actually find it difficult to get loops on and off for measuring and you may have difficulty making smaller loops. Most loops are 1/2-5/8" and you may have trouble getting them that small if the post is already at 1/2".


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## blbhunt2

If you build on a 1/2 inch post the string will be longer than if you built on a 1/4 inch post because the circumference is greater. Then when you install it on your bow the loop will stretch out because your post on your cam is smaller than 1/2 inch and your string will be longer than what you measured when you built it. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> Why does it make a difference measuring on 1/4 inch posts versus bigger ones? Aren’t you just measuring the inside of the loops essentially?


The distance half way around a 1/4" Dia post is only half as far as the distance half way around a 1/2" Diameter post (0.3927" vs 0.7854") so a string built on 1/2" posts would end up half the difference longer (0.142699") than one built on 1/4" posts at the same outside measurement, plus you couldn't even build a 3/4" or even a 1" end loop on a 1/2" diameter posts, the post would physically be larger than that hole in the loop. Everything can be calculated, but it's really not worth the effort.... just build on 1/4" posts and be done with it. 

FYI, I use 1/4" Diameter "hooks" on my stretcher banks, and they hold up to 300pounds without issue. I believe they're Stainless and I can't recall if I got them from Home Depot, or McMaster Carr, but they are just general purpose hooks, not high strenth/hardened specialty hooks.


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## mattafliving

Frank-the-5th said:


> Why does it make a difference measuring on 1/4 inch posts versus bigger ones? Aren’t you just measuring the inside of the loops essentially?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To add on to what Nestly was saying, you’ll need the ability to make smaller loops. Some of the modern cam designs roll over right after the end loop. If your end loop is too long, it won’t allow the cable, or string to properly seat inside the cam track. 


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## Frank-the-5th

Thank you all for the explanations! Much better understanding everything now. To quarter inch post I go [emoji1303]


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## EvilGarfield

Hello,

I've completed my first string a few weeks ago and I've been shooting it since then. I'm very happy with the look of the string and how well it holds up.

I am shooting a recurve bow and one thing I saw is that my bow is out of tune now when bareshaft shooting. It used to be all fine before but now my arrows act quite weak. 

Did any of you experience that? Any clue where it comes from?
Is it possible that just the string change (from 8125g to BCY Mercury) would influence (recurve) tuning that much? Is it possible that the string is that much faster? Or is it the change of material for my centre serving that results in a different release? I use Angel Majest which is very slippery so I would expect a cleaner release.


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## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've completed my first string a few weeks ago and I've been shooting it since then. I'm very happy with the look of the string and how well it holds up.
> 
> I am shooting a recurve bow and one thing I saw is that my bow is out of tune now when bareshaft shooting. It used to be all fine before but now my arrows act quite weak.
> 
> Did any of you experience that? Any clue where it comes from?
> Is it possible that just the string change (from 8125g to BCY Mercury) would influence (recurve) tuning that much? Is it possible that the string is that much faster? Or is it the change of material for my centre serving that results in a different release? I use Angel Majest which is very slippery so I would expect a cleaner release.


It could be a little faster and could cause a weak reaction but how much is anyone's guess. I've never seen a large difference on compound bows and if you kept the same diameter as you did with the 8125g string, I don't think you'd see much of a difference. Did your braceheight change? Is it longer with the new string?


----------



## Refletch2

Finally got my extra spools and giving a 2 colour string a shot. 11 strands of Flo orange and 11 strands of black (452x)... Here she is on the stretcher waiting for the extra step... Feeling good about this one!


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## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> The square file might work. Would probably take a lot of filing though.
> 
> The reason you measure on a 1/4" post is because that is the industry standard. 1/4" posts, tensioned to 100lbs and measure from outside to outside of the posts. If you're using 1/2" posts, you may actually find it difficult to get loops on and off for measuring and you may have difficulty making smaller loops. Most loops are 1/2-5/8" and you may have trouble getting them that small if the post is already at 1/2".


Thank you for the info about the 1/4 inch post. I updated my jig today to accommodate it. I took 5/8”x6 bolts and had a machine shop drill and tap for 1/4 inch bolts 


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## Frank-the-5th

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## blbhunt2

Frank-the-5th said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks good! Nice long bolts for laying up your material. Just make sure you keep your string at the bottom of the post when putting tension on it. I had one slide up the post as I started putting tension on because it was partway up the post to start with, would hate to have that happen when I'm up at 300 pounds!! I would also recommend grade 8 bolts, not sure what you have there. 

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## Frank-the-5th

blbhunt2 said:


> Looks good! Nice long bolts for laying up your material. Just make sure you keep your string at the bottom of the post when putting tension on it. I had one slide up the post as I started putting tension on because it was partway up the post to start with, would hate to have that happen when I'm up at 300 pounds!! I would also recommend grade 8 bolts, not sure what you have there.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I’m gonna have to go back to store and get some bolts for the eye bolt modification. Even under 100lbs the strings are sliding up pretty bad 


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## Refletch2

Frank-the-5th said:


> I’m gonna have to go back to store and get some bolts for the eye bolt modification. Even under 100lbs the strings are sliding up pretty bad
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The eye bolts are a definite must... it will keep your rods straight and avoid having the strings ride up the post. 300lb is a lot of pressure, the unistrut flex’s under that load if you only have 1 as I do... thinking I will get a 2nd one bolted under like the plans call for or a 2”x6” with lag bolts... Like Huntinsker mentionned right off the bat, every part in the material list has its place and purpose...


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Refletch2 said:


> The eye bolts are a definite must... it will keep your rods straight and avoid having the strings ride up the post. 300lb is a lot of pressure, the unistrut flex’s under that load if you only have 1 as I do... thinking I will get a 2nd one bolted under like the plans call for or a 2”x6” with lag bolts... Like Huntinsker mentionned right off the bat, every part in the material list has its place and purpose...



Much better with the eye bolts. I bought a 6x8 and bolted it w/ 5 1/2” bolts and it hasn’t budged so far 


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## Frank-the-5th

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## automan26

Frank-the-5th said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is looking better. It's a coincidence that I was thinking about your design and decided to post up that you should go get some eyebolts. I opened up the thread to find that you have beat me to it. I am not sure if the beehive valve spring is the best route to go. Beehive spring have a different compression rate, but if it reaches 300# at coil bind you are golden.

Automan


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## automan26

*El-Cheap-O Pinstripe Jig*

A couple days ago someone asked me if I had designed a pinstripe jig, which I hadn't. I had some parts laying around so I threw something together and texted him a pic of my take on a pinstripe jig. He built it and texted back that it worked. Everything in the pic is built from 5/16" components. I have yet to build one myself, so I don't know how tall to make the all-thread post, but it should be somewhere near 6" if you are building one for an El-Cheap-O.


"Simple and Cheap".....That's my motto.

Automan


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## Frank-the-5th

automan26 said:


> That is looking better. It's a coincidence that I was thinking about your design and decided to post up that you should go get some eyebolts. I opened up the thread to find that you have beat me to it. I am not sure if the beehive valve spring is the best route to go. Beehive spring have a different compression rate, but if it reaches 300# at coil bind you are golden.
> 
> Automan


Here’s the specs on the spring I bought. I’m not sure how to read spring rates and such, what’s your take on it?










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## Frank-the-5th

Anyone have suggestions for stronger bolts? These are the ones I’m currently using










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## rich_cardoso

I would say you need to get anything stainless or even grade 8 maybe grade 7 bolts ....

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## automan26

I use grade 8, but even with a grade 5 that bolt should not bend unless the string climbed the bolt under tension. Drop the height of the hook on the offending side and/or install 1/4" shaft collars on the bolts and position them 1/4" above the string before tensioning.

I looked over the spring specs you posted and my best guess would be that at coil bind you should be very close to 300#, or close enough that it won't matter all that much.

Automan


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## blbhunt2

I would just go get grade 8. If you happen to have a Tractor Supply in your area, go there. They sell them by the pound, much cheaper than buying them by the piece. 

As far as stainless goes, I believe that they would be weaker than grade 5. Check this out: 

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Anyone have suggestions for stronger bolts? These are the ones I’m currently using
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I use this bolt from Bolt Depot.

Part # 9354 Socket cap (smooth), Chrome plated grade 8 steel, 1/4"-20 x 2-1/4"

It is ideal for this job.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Thanks for the advice on bolts everyone. I’m gonna go pick some up today. Has anyone had issues with the non spring side locking up? I had a set tensioned at 300#s last night and the nut on the non spring side is definitely not gonna budge unless it’s cut off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Thanks for the advice on bolts everyone. I’m gonna go pick some up today. Has anyone had issues with the non spring side locking up? I had a set tensioned at 300#s last night and the nut on the non spring side is definitely not gonna budge unless it’s cut off
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Never seen that happen. May just need a couple "nudges" with a hammer around the perimeter to get it set back on the threads properly. Hopefully anyway.


----------



## automan26

Frank-the-5th said:


> Thanks for the advice on bolts everyone. I’m gonna go pick some up today. Has anyone had issues with the non spring side locking up? I had a set tensioned at 300#s last night and the nut on the non spring side is definitely not gonna budge unless it’s cut off
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I applaud your efforts to build your own jig, but since you have a running start on building an El-Cheap-O you might want to take a look at the Dropbox link in my signature. When I designed my jig I ran into many of the same issues you are having and I designed the jig to overcome them. You are only a couple carriage bolts and a few nuts away from having an El-Cheap-O, so you might take a look at what's in the link and give it a think.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

Yes this does build top quality strings!


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker I remember you posting someone who made brass speed nock clusters. Who was that again? Need to order some. Thanks


----------



## MandK

Rob at Hogwire has the speed nock clusters


----------



## Huntinsker

MandK said:


> Rob at Hogwire has the speed nock clusters


Not any more. His supplier fell through and they aren't a thing anymore. There is someone producing a similar but slightly modified product but I'm not certain on who to go through to get them yet. I'm working on figuring that out and I'll let you guys know.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Not any more. His supplier fell through and they aren't a thing anymore. There is someone producing a similar but slightly modified product but I'm not certain on who to go through to get them yet. I'm working on figuring that out and I'll let you guys know.


Thanks. Please keep us updated.


----------



## lunghit

I am getting ready to make a string and cable set for the Mathews Traverse I have on order but I am having trouble picturing something here. The cables only have an end loop on one end because the other end loops through the ring. I want to make pinstripe cables with tag end served end loops. With two main colors and a pin I will have 3 sets of tags ends at one. Is it possible to make an end loop with three sets of tag ends? Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> I am getting ready to make a string and cable set for the Mathews Traverse I have on order but I am having trouble picturing something here. The cables only have an end loop on one end because the other end loops through the ring. I want to make pinstripe cables with tag end served end loops. With two main colors and a pin I will have 3 sets of tags ends at one. Is it possible to make an end loop with three sets of tag ends? Thanks


Sure is. If you're serving them, just secure all the tags at the same end and serve over them. If you're doing tag ends, what I do is to secure the pinstripe tag ends and one of the main color tag ends towards the inside of the string, so in between the jig posts, using one of my clamps. Then wrap one set of tag ends until you get half the loop wrapped, then wrap half the bundle a few times with another set of tag ends, cover those wraps with the main tag ends and then repeat with the 3rd set of tag ends. Similar to what I show in post #1385 on page 56. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56


----------



## Huntinsker

So none other than Eric Griggs, of GAS Bowstrings is now selling the "Speed Stacks". He gave me this for the price and said to order, you can email him at [email protected].

Speed Stack Pricing (2019)

Bags of 10
2 Stack - $7.00 ($0.70 each)
3 Stack - $8.00 ($0.80 each)
4 Stack - $9.00 ($0.90 each)
5 Stack - $10.00 ($1.00 each)

Bags of 100
2 Stack - $60.00 ($0.60 each)
3 Stack - $67.00 ($0.67 each)
4 Stack - $73.00 ($0.73 each)
5 Stack - $78.00 ($0.78 each)

Bags of 500
2 Stack - $255.00 ($0.51 each)
3 Stack - $285.00 ($0.57 each)
4 Stack - $315.00 ($0.63 each)
5 Stack - $335.00 ($0.67 each)

Bags of 1,000
2 Stack - $480.00 ($0.48 each)
3 Stack - $530.00 ($0.53 each)
4 Stack - $590.00 ($0.59 each)
5 Stack - $630.00 ($0.63 each)


----------



## Refletch2

Frank-the-5th said:


> Thanks for the advice on bolts everyone. I’m gonna go pick some up today. Has anyone had issues with the non spring side locking up? I had a set tensioned at 300#s last night and the nut on the non spring side is definitely not gonna budge unless it’s cut off
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine did the same thing after only a few strings... took everything to get it off and I had to cut myself another section of threaded rod, drill and tap it has the threads on the other one are all screwed up (no pun intended). I am thinking of doing the thrust bearing addition this time if I can find one... Hopefully it helps avoid this from happening again.


----------



## MandK

Thanks for getting us the info Huntinsker


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Refletch2 said:


> Mine did the same thing after only a few strings... took everything to get it off and I had to cut myself another section of threaded rod, drill and tap it has the threads on the other one are all screwed up (no pun intended). I am thinking of doing the thrust bearing addition this time if I can find one... Hopefully it helps avoid this from happening again.


Let me know if the thrust bearing helps. I’m gonna have to replace the rod like you did, the threads got messed up pretty bad. I’m thinking about using this one as a dedicated stretcher instead, and just replacing the non spring side with a smaller eye bolt 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## automan26

Make sure that the hole the threaded rod runs thru is sloppy-big. The rod needs lots of wiggle room or it will really bind up.

Automan


----------



## Refletch2

automan26 said:


> Make sure that the hole the threaded rod runs thru is sloppy-big. The rod needs lots of wiggle room or it will really bind up.
> 
> Automan


You're right, I am thinking of removing +/- 2.5" of the threads on the spring side rod on my buddy's lathe to avoid this problem but on the non-spring side you can't... I might take my little die grinder and round the edges of that hole so it doesn't bind like you said. Most likely what caused the damage on the rod initially which screwed up the threads on the nut.

Good point Automan, thanks!


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Sure is. If you're serving them, just secure all the tags at the same end and serve over them. If you're doing tag ends, what I do is to secure the pinstripe tag ends and one of the main color tag ends towards the inside of the string, so in between the jig posts, using one of my clamps. Then wrap one set of tag ends until you get half the loop wrapped, then wrap half the bundle a few times with another set of tag ends, cover those wraps with the main tag ends and then repeat with the 3rd set of tag ends. Similar to what I show in post #1385 on page 56. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56


Thank you. It all clicked once I read the above. I have made pinstripe cables for the Mathews but it was a few years ago. Thanks again.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> So none other than Eric Griggs, of GAS Bowstrings is now selling the "Speed Stacks". He gave me this for the price and said to order, you can email him at [email protected].
> 
> Speed Stack Pricing (2019)
> 
> Bags of 10
> 2 Stack - $7.00 ($0.70 each)
> 3 Stack - $8.00 ($0.80 each)
> 4 Stack - $9.00 ($0.90 each)
> 5 Stack - $10.00 ($1.00 each)
> 
> Bags of 100
> 2 Stack - $60.00 ($0.60 each)
> 3 Stack - $67.00 ($0.67 each)
> 4 Stack - $73.00 ($0.73 each)
> 5 Stack - $78.00 ($0.78 each)
> 
> Bags of 500
> 2 Stack - $255.00 ($0.51 each)
> 3 Stack - $285.00 ($0.57 each)
> 4 Stack - $315.00 ($0.63 each)
> 5 Stack - $335.00 ($0.67 each)
> 
> Bags of 1,000
> 2 Stack - $480.00 ($0.48 each)
> 3 Stack - $530.00 ($0.53 each)
> 4 Stack - $590.00 ($0.59 each)
> 5 Stack - $630.00 ($0.63 each)


Thanks for the update.


----------



## Binary cam man

Frank-the-5th said:


> Thanks for the advice on bolts everyone. I’m gonna go pick some up today. Has anyone had issues with the non spring side locking up? I had a set tensioned at 300#s last night and the nut on the non spring side is definitely not gonna budge unless it’s cut off
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Go to post 1933. My design! Coupling nut. Sold at lowes. I also use Teflon dry lube on the threads. Solved that problem.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> So none other than Eric Griggs, of GAS Bowstrings is now selling the "Speed Stacks". He gave me this for the price and said to order, you can email him at [email protected].
> 
> Speed Stack Pricing (2019)
> 
> Bags of 10
> 2 Stack - $7.00 ($0.70 each)
> 3 Stack - $8.00 ($0.80 each)
> 4 Stack - $9.00 ($0.90 each)
> 5 Stack - $10.00 ($1.00 each)
> 
> Bags of 100
> 2 Stack - $60.00 ($0.60 each)
> 3 Stack - $67.00 ($0.67 each)
> 4 Stack - $73.00 ($0.73 each)
> 5 Stack - $78.00 ($0.78 each)
> 
> Bags of 500
> 2 Stack - $255.00 ($0.51 each)
> 3 Stack - $285.00 ($0.57 each)
> 4 Stack - $315.00 ($0.63 each)
> 5 Stack - $335.00 ($0.67 each)
> 
> Bags of 1,000
> 2 Stack - $480.00 ($0.48 each)
> 3 Stack - $530.00 ($0.53 each)
> 4 Stack - $590.00 ($0.59 each)
> 5 Stack - $630.00 ($0.63 each)


Just ordered a few bags. Looking forward to trying them.


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## Hunter Hr.

Guys how many strands of bcy x you put on 60# bow and 70#..


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## lunghit

Hunter Hr. said:


> Guys how many strands of bcy x you put on 60# bow and 70#..


For the most part I use 24 strand on everything. Some bows might require different finished diameters to properly fit in the cam tracks. I just made a set of yokes for my PSE and that needed 20 strands for the targeted finished diameter. The Mathews yokes will also be 20 strands.


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## Hunter Hr.

Thanks.. This is for mathews no cam htr..


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## Russ87

Great guide


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## mattjaco1

awesome!


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## NWhunt

Thank you!


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## DadOf3Girls

Thanks for the guide!


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## Refletch2

Hey guys, I know it’s on here somewhere but my laptop failed me and the search tool kinda sucks when using my phone... would anyone have a link to the thrust bearing used in the jig to reduce friction? It would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## b0w_bender

Refletch2 said:


> Hey guys, I know it’s on here somewhere but my laptop failed me and the search tool kinda sucks when using my phone... would anyone have a link to the thrust bearing used in the jig to reduce friction? It would be much appreciated!
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I did a quick search and didn't find any good pictures of a thrust baring incorporated in =to the El-cheapo jig but I did find several mentions of it so I know it has been done just couldn't find the pictures. Now my jig is not any where near the El-Cheapo design but I incorporated a thrust bearing and I can say unequivocally it improves the design immensely! I have mine on what would be the non spring side of the jig where I twist the string.


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## sapper17

So was tinkering around the computer and made this. Hope it helps.

View attachment String serving sheet.zip


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## Frank-the-5th

I’m assuming it’s not normal to be able to spin the back served part of tag end servings? (See attached pic) 

I was make a yoke cable last night and on one of the yoke arms I can move that part around pretty freely and spin it around. I pulled it pretty dang tight when I finished back serving it. Is that normal w/ string material or is there a better way to finish tag ends?










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## blbhunt2

I don't even back serve mine. Just wrap twice around each color bundle (on a 2 color string) through the center of the string. Then serve right over it when I do the end serving. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## cabuff93

I'm fixing to start making my own string. What size serving should I buy ? Plan to run halo and 3d only going to be using bcy 452x or x99 string 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Rxr04

Great details thanks


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## Huntinsker

Refletch2 said:


> Hey guys, I know it’s on here somewhere but my laptop failed me and the search tool kinda sucks when using my phone... would anyone have a link to the thrust bearing used in the jig to reduce friction? It would be much appreciated!
> 
> Thanks in advance!


https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/show...11818&highlight=thrust bearing#post1069711818 

Page 28, post #698 shows where to put it.


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> I’m assuming it’s not normal to be able to spin the back served part of tag end servings? (See attached pic)
> 
> I was make a yoke cable last night and on one of the yoke arms I can move that part around pretty freely and spin it around. I pulled it pretty dang tight when I finished back serving it. Is that normal w/ string material or is there a better way to finish tag ends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you're just using the material to serve the yoke legs, you need to leave long tag ends and wrap over themselves quite a bit to get a good overlap. Then you need to back wrap in the same way and do plenty of back wraps to make sure they don't come undone. Personally, I serve them with 3d.


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## Huntinsker

cabuff93 said:


> I'm fixing to start making my own string. What size serving should I buy ? Plan to run halo and 3d only going to be using bcy 452x or x99 string
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Can't go wrong with either of those. Halo for the cable ends, 3d for the string ends and I like Powergrip for the centers. .018" Powergrip on 22 strands of 452x will yield a really nice nock fit for most standard sized nocks. .014" PG for some of the smaller nocks like a GT HD Pin nock works.


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## Fiferguy

So after a couple years from making a string (some time with the old string and 15 months of recovery after shoulder surgery), I'm finally getting back into archery. The old strings are pretty worn out, so I'm going to make some new ones. I picked up a spool of Brownell Rampage to try, and to get the fit with the serving material I have I'm using 32 strands. Whipped up a 12" test string to test it, and it fits fine. So off we go.

Now for my question: Has anyone experimented with a smaller diameter cable compared to the string? For instance, 32 strands on the string and 28 on the cable? Thoughts? I'm playing with the idea, but wanted to hear pros and cons before I do.

Thanks!


----------



## tommy8553

In the process of making a jig. Thanks for all the great ideas.









Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> So after a couple years from making a string (some time with the old string and 15 months of recovery after shoulder surgery), I'm finally getting back into archery. The old strings are pretty worn out, so I'm going to make some new ones. I picked up a spool of Brownell Rampage to try, and to get the fit with the serving material I have I'm using 32 strands. Whipped up a 12" test string to test it, and it fits fine. So off we go.
> 
> Now for my question: Has anyone experimented with a smaller diameter cable compared to the string? For instance, 32 strands on the string and 28 on the cable? Thoughts? I'm playing with the idea, but wanted to hear pros and cons before I do.
> 
> Thanks!


Honestly I've never gone that way before, always the reverse with fewer strands in the string than the cable. The string is under a lot less tension than the cables so having the extra stability in the cables to me, it more important. I just don't see a benefit to a thinner cable. You may get a couple ounces less holding weight with a thin cable, assuming cable stops, but you could get the same with a twist out of the string.


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## Sapient29

The information in this diy string build has been a great learning tool for me I’m just getting started into the fundamentals of string building and the advice in here is extremely helpful for me. To all the contributors I thank you


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## Purity02

wow that a great idea


----------



## artemisw

great idea,tag for next weekend project

我從使用 Tapatalk 的 MI MAX 2 發送


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## NWIOWAGRANT

Sweet


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## Mac2118

Well, after reading through this thread, I decided that I wanted to play too....

Finished my jig the other day.









Wanted to build a 20" string out of 452x. 

























Finished at 20" on the line when I finished.

I think I may go ahead and build that set of strings for an old bow I was thinking about.

I'm not too happy with the red serving material, I might have to use my black 3D instead.


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## Fiferguy

Looks good!


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## Nate_IN

So I tried my hand at a pinstripe string the other evening and has some issues with the pinstripe being stuck beneath the other colors. What is the best way to twist a pinstripe string and what ways do you guys use to keep the pinstripe on the outside?


----------



## Fiferguy

Nate_IN said:


> So I tried my hand at a pinstripe string the other evening and has some issues with the pinstripe being stuck beneath the other colors. What is the best way to twist a pinstripe string and what ways do you guys use to keep the pinstripe on the outside?


I've had the best luck separating the pin stripe with golf tees before I twist. Here's a picture of what I mean. I also take the time to chase both pinstripes and make sure they lay where I want them before I stretch and burnish.


----------



## Huntinsker

Nate_IN said:


> So I tried my hand at a pinstripe string the other evening and has some issues with the pinstripe being stuck beneath the other colors. What is the best way to twist a pinstripe string and what ways do you guys use to keep the pinstripe on the outside?


You can find the easiest way, and I think most effective way, to separate the colors when doing a pinstripe here in post 1385. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/show...ght=processes have evolved bit#post1071270374 

Twist 1/2-2/3 of the way and remove the tees. That's how I do them and I also use a scrap piece of material to "chase" the pinstripes if they do get covered at all. Typically I just pull the scrap piece out because they don't get covered but if they do, I have them in there to work with. Just insert a scrap piece between the pins and primary colors before twisting so they're there when you pull the tees out.


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## Nate_IN

I will give this a try. Thanks!


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## ayester

A lot better than the one I built.


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## rawhammer01

nice


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## psiAddict

Whew you guys are good...subscribing to attempt.


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## blbhunt2

Last night I laid up a new control cable and thought I'd try to do it by memory instead of reading Automan's instructions for each step... Anyway I ended up letting it stretch (or preload or whatever your favorite term is...) overnight before I twisted it. Duh ..... 

Question is do I need to re-stretch after I twist it, or will it be alright if I twist it, burnish and serve it without letting it stretch a couple hours twisted? 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## automan26

It is important that you stretch after twisting. After twisting each strand is running a different path through the string, some a longer path around the outside of the string and some a shorter path through the center of the string. Stretching after twisting allows each strand to settle into its happy place within the bundle.

Automan


----------



## Hunter Hr.

But isn't twist - strech-serve better way?.. Old debut but..


----------



## blbhunt2

Ok I'll re-stretch it, not a problem I just wandered 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## EvilGarfield

Hello,


I've been making string since a little while using alle the good advices from this thread. I do recurve strings with end loop serving. Therefore I use a 4 poles jig to lay out my strands and to serve the end loops ( do not close the loops). Once this is done, I put the string on the stretcher and stretch at 200lbs for 30min before i dewax and start twisitng. 
Until now, I never had any issue. Revently however, I had to do a string with an odd number (25) of threads (for perfect nock fit). I laid out my threads as follow:
- 13 threads of orange (6.5 loops)
- 12 threads of blue (6 full loops).

This means that the orange thread has the start on one side of the jig and the enb on the other side. The blue starts and ends on the same side. See the image below.







*
Now the problem:*
After releasing the tension, before twisting, the orange thread is very loose compared to the blue one. So much so that if I put just enough tension to get the blue in tension, the orange hangs loosly 3-4mm below it. As if my serving of the en loops was not enough to hold the orange thread but was fine for the blue. I never had this problem when doing strings with even number of threads.

Does anyone know the reason for this?
Is is because the orange thread starts and ends on the opposite sides of the jig?
Should I avoid putting 300lbs before twisting?
Or instead of a 25 stand string, should I do a 24 strand string and then add 1 strand under the center serving to get the desired nock fit?


----------



## EvilGarfield

I think I found the issue.

Since start and end of the orange thread are not on the same post, when I tun them 90°, if they are not parfectly parallel I might shorten the distance between the two anchoring points and the whole thread gets loose.
This cannot happen for the blue thread since both ends are on the same beam. 

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


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## bjw12

very in depth jig . well done


----------



## bjw12

nice loops!


----------



## Huntinsker

EvilGarfield said:


> I think I found the issue.
> 
> Since start and end of the orange thread are not on the same post, when I tun them 90°, if they are not parfectly parallel I might shorten the distance between the two anchoring points and the whole thread gets loose.
> This cannot happen for the blue thread since both ends are on the same beam.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


That certainly could be the problem. If you don't have trouble with doing even numbers, I'd just pad the center serving like you mentioned previously. That'd be the easiest solution. You could also do 26 strands, tie them off on the same post, serve the loop and cut your last extra strand out. It'd be basically the same as doing 25 but stopping the strand on the other end. Just need to make sure you cut the correct strand so you're not cutting the middle of the bundle.


----------



## EvilGarfield

Huntinsker said:


> That certainly could be the problem. If you don't have trouble with doing even numbers, I'd just pad the center serving like you mentioned previously. That'd be the easiest solution. You could also do 26 strands, tie them off on the same post, serve the loop and cut your last extra strand out. It'd be basically the same as doing 25 but stopping the strand on the other end. Just need to make sure you cut the correct strand so you're not cutting the middle of the bundle.


I ended up doing the latter. But instead of cutting the last strand , I anchored it to the pole where the start was tied (top loop pole) . That way, this last thread does not get wrapped by the top loop serving. after I served the bottom loop, I coul just untie the thread and cut it close to the bottom loop serving. That way I recover more material and I'm sure it's the right strand. 

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Has anyone had their strings kink up like this after taking them off of the stretcher? I’ve had 2 do this now and it’s driving me crazy










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fiferguy

Frank-the-5th said:


> Has anyone had their strings kink up like this after taking them off of the stretcher? I’ve had 2 do this now and it’s driving me crazy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Might be too little or too much wax removal before you twist and stretch.


----------



## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> Has anyone had their strings kink up like this after taking them off of the stretcher? I’ve had 2 do this now and it’s driving me crazy


Commonly referred to as "bumps" in this thread. I think it's due to uneven strand tension, sometimes caused by over-burnishing, and/or using colors that have different amount of wax.


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## tallguy1968

Great detail and information! Thank you very much


----------



## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Has anyone had their strings kink up like this after taking them off of the stretcher? I’ve had 2 do this now and it’s driving me crazy
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like nestly said, it's "the bumps". The most commonly reported reason is too much dewaxing/burnishing.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Like nestly said, it's "the bumps". The most commonly reported reason is too much dewaxing/burnishing.


Noted, I’ll do less of both of those things. Is it just a cosmetic thing and ok to shoot? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Noted, I’ll do less of both of those things. Is it just a cosmetic thing and ok to shoot?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah they go away when you get the set on the bow. No other side effects besides when you take tension off the piece.


----------



## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> Noted, I’ll do less of both of those things. Is it just a cosmetic thing and ok to shoot?





Huntinsker said:


> Yeah they go away when you get the set on the bow. No other side effects besides when you take tension off the piece.


I believe they do reduce the strength of the string, perhaps not enough to be a hazzard, but I don't see how those bumps could form when a string is relaxed except for one or more strands in the bundle that's contracting more than the others, which also means some strands are stressed more than others while under tension.


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> I believe they do reduce the strength of the string, perhaps not enough to be a hazzard, but I don't see how those bumps could form when a string is relaxed except for one or more strands in the bundle that's contracting more than the others, which also means some strands are stressed more than others while under tension.


I don't think they have anything to do with uneven strand tension. Personally, from what I've seen, it's more likely that the "bumped" areas are simply areas that aren't compressed tightly enough together to hold the bundle shape and that's where the strands separate and "bump" as the string relaxes. The bumps are like crumple zones between where the rest of the bundle is squeezed tightly together and held that way because of the wax.


----------



## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> I don't think they have anything to do with uneven strand tension. Personally, from what I've seen, it's more likely that the "bumped" areas are simply areas that aren't compressed tightly enough together to hold the bundle shape and that's where the strands separate and "bump" as the string relaxes. The bumps are like crumple zones between where the rest of the bundle is squeezed tightly together and held that way because of the wax.


I agree and of you ever take a bumpy string off a bow after even a low number of shots you will notice that the bumps are gone. Shooting vibrates out the wax from within the string and there is no longer enough wax to cause the bumps 

Automan


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## Maga52

Thanks! For the time and effort. I will improve my rig.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk


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## tommy8553

Finshed up the jig going to try some test peices this weekend.









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## Huntinsker

tommy8553 said:


> Finshed up the jig going to try some test peices this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Looks stout. Should build a great string.


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## tack62

Great posting. Detailed, descriptive and easy to follow.


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## automan26

*ATTENTION NEW BUILDERS*


Over the past three or four weeks I have been contacted by serval guys who have built their very first string, and they have all had a similar problem. I thought it would be a good idea to talk about this because I am sure there are others having the same problem and may be thinking about throwing in the towel because they are doing everything according to the instructions, but their strings are coming off the jig in horrible condition.


OK....This is your first or second string and you are sooooo proud of it, but when you take it off the jig it wants to twist itself into a tangled ball of knots. You review everything and are convinced that you performed each step correctly and maybe you trashed it and built a second string and, even though you follow the instructions to the letter, it too wants to twist up badly when you remove it from the jig.


Even though you are absolutely sure that you served everything clockwise, there is a 100% chance you served something, probably an end serving, in the counterclockwise direction. It is easier to do than one might think. There are times, even after all the strings I have built over the years, that I need to stop and sort things out to make sure I am indeed serving clockwise. 


Each of the guys I have helped over the past few weeks were certain that they served everything in the clockwise direction and each of them has later contacted me, informing me that they found a section of the string that had been served backwards and when they re-served it, the string came of the jig in perfect condition. 

This is a very easy mistake to make and I am sure that there are others out there who have had the same problem and are at wit's end as to what they are doing wrong. The problem arises when one end of the string is served with the bobbin rotating in a particular direction, but when the builder does a 180 and starts serving the other end, the brain doesn't make the 180 turn and the bobbin goes backwards even though it looks like it is rotating just like it was previously.

Anytime any of you builders get into a situation that just doesn't make sense, there are many guys here, myself included, who are eager to help you sort through whatever is going on, so you can enjoy this highly rewarding aspect of archery.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> *ATTENTION NEW BUILDERS*
> 
> 
> Over the past three or four weeks I have been contacted by serval guys who have built their very first string, and they have all had a similar problem. I thought it would be a good idea to talk about this because I am sure there are others having the same problem and may be thinking about throwing in the towel because they are doing everything according to the instructions, but their strings are coming off the jig in horrible condition.
> 
> 
> OK....This is your first or second string and you are sooooo proud of it, but when you take it off the jig it wants to twist itself into a tangled ball of knots. You review everything and are convinced that you performed each step correctly and maybe you trashed it and built a second string and, even though you follow the instructions to the letter, it too wants to twist up badly when you remove it from the jig.
> 
> 
> Even though you are absolutely sure that you served everything clockwise, there is a 100% chance you served something, probably an end serving, in the counterclockwise direction. It is easier to do than one might think. There are times, even after all the strings I have built over the years, that I need to stop and sort things out to make sure I am indeed serving clockwise.
> 
> 
> Each of the guys I have helped over the past few weeks were certain that they served everything in the clockwise direction and each of them has later contacted me, informing me that they found a section of the string that had been served backwards and when they re-served it, the string came of the jig in perfect condition.
> 
> This is a very easy mistake to make and I am sure that there are others out there who have had the same problem and are at wit's end as to what they are doing wrong. The problem arises when one end of the string is served with the bobbin rotating in a particular direction, but when the builder does a 180 and starts serving the other end, the brain doesn't make the 180 turn and the bobbin goes backwards even though it looks like it is rotating just like it was previously.
> 
> Anytime any of you builders get into a situation that just doesn't make sense, there are many guys here, myself included, who are eager to help you sort through whatever is going on, so you can enjoy this highly rewarding aspect of archery.
> 
> Automan


Yeah I've gotten several PMs with that problem too. The nice thing is that if you serve it backwards, you'll immediately know and can just serve the other way next time. There's really no need to even understand why, just remember which way you went and do the opposite next time.


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## Jabr357

automan26 said:


> *ATTENTION NEW BUILDERS*
> 
> This is a very easy mistake to make and I am sure that there are others out there who have had the same problem and are at wit's end as to what they are doing wrong. The problem arises when one end of the string is served with the bobbin rotating in a particular direction, but *when the builder does a 180 and starts serving the other end*, the brain doesn't make the 180 turn and the bobbin goes backwards even though it looks like it is rotating just like it was previously.
> 
> Anytime any of you builders get into a situation that just doesn't make sense, there are many guys here, myself included, who are eager to help you sort through whatever is going on, so you can enjoy this highly rewarding aspect of archery.
> 
> Automan


Thanks Automan, but I got to admit, this has always been somewhat confusing to me. Is the rule of thumb to wind clockwise no matter the direction you serve in (even when doing a 180) ?


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## Golfnut1969

Jabr357 said:


> Thanks Automan, but I got to admit, this has always been somewhat confusing to me. Is the rule of thumb to wind clockwise no matter the direction you serve in (even when doing a 180) ?


My jig is on sawhorses in the middle of my workspace, so I can work from either side. Some guys have their jig mounted on a work bench and always work from one side. I always serve towards the end loops for end servings, but for center servings, string stops, etc, it seems I do these from either end. 

The problem with serving Clockwise, is clockwise is relative. From one end of the jig, you turn things clockwise, but if someone was on the other end of the jig, they would tell you were turning counter-clockwise, and you would both be correct. I think this is the most confusing part people have trouble with. 

So rather than think of things as clockwise, I like to think of it from the perspective of standing to the side of my string where you'll be working from. Think of things like this.

If your serving tool is hanging straight down it can either move away from me, or towards me. When it moves around the string in that direction, it will then end up on top of the string and will now move the opposite directon, towards me if it just moved away, or vice versa.

In order to keep things straight, I have created this little cheat sheet that I have printed a couple copies and put on my jig and one on my workbench so I can always refer to it to make sure I'm serving the correct direction. 









The top row is just a reminder to always twist the string in a clockwise direction. For twisting, it doesn't matter your perspective. Twisting clockwise from either end gives you the same results.

The second row refers to the direction I want to serve, either Right to Left, or Left to Right.
Below each of those options is the way you want to serve. 

OA = Over Away
UT = Under Towards
OT = Over Towards
UA = Under Away


So basically, when you serve, the bobbin will move one of two ways. 
1. Over the top going away from you, and then comes under the string coming towards you.
-OR-
2. Comes over the top coming towards you, and then goes under the string going away from you.

Hope this helps.


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## patches2565

I'm 100 % sure this is my problem. I installed my set and for some reason I when I took my first shot my peep rotated 180. Now it doesnt move as much but it does move. I just realized that all of my top servings have been the wrong direction. I was spinning my bobbin CCW as I look at my top post. This is bad considering i twisted using my bottom post CCW. 

Once again automan26 thanks for the clarity. Can I just reserve and twist to length? I also added speed nocks so that's frustrating. I might just order TPU's 

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## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> I'm 100 % sure this is my problem. I installed my set and for some reason I when I took my first shot my peep rotated 180. Now it doesnt move as much but it does move. I just realized that all of my top servings have been the wrong direction. I was spinning my bobbin CCW as I look at my top post. This is bad considering i twisted using my bottom post CCW.
> 
> Once again automan26 thanks for the clarity. Can I just reserve and twist to length? I also added speed nocks so that's frustrating. I might just order TPU's
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


If you take the serving off, the twists will normalize again along the entire string, or at least the non-served areas of the string. That'll allow you to just redo the one serving and things should be good to go. You shouldn't have to add or subtract twists because whatever you put in initially will still be there.


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## automan26

Here's a little trick to take all the confusion out of serving direction. Here is a little clock face made out of card stock. Make one of these and draw a clock on each side of the disc. Position it on the string ahead of your bobbin, in the direction of intended serving travel and simply follow the arrows. Serve toward the disc and no matter where you are on the string and no matter which direction you are serving toward, if this disc is ahead of your bobbin and you are serving toward the disc, it will always tell you the direction of bobbin rotation.

I threw this disc and string together about 15 minutes before heading out the door to make some deliveries so it is a bit crude, but you can get the point. I attempted to show the disc in various positions on the string, illustrating different directions of intended serving travel. Notice that when serving, facing the disc, you will always be serving clockwise no matter where you are on the string and no matter to what direction you are serving. Very soon I plan to make a video of this process and when I do I will post the link.

Automan


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## automan26

I made another disc and numbered it on both sides. I made a hole in the middle, just above the center line then cut a slit to the hole and used a paper clip as a weight to keep the 12 position at the top.

The first pic is serving toward the left side post and the second pic is serving away from the left side post.

Automan


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## automan26

Next, I slid the disc down the string and served toward the right side post (First Pic). Then put the bobbin on the other side of the disc and served away from the right side post (Second Pic). Notice that in all the pics I have shown thus far the bobbin is rotating clockwise. I like this little disc thing so much that I am going to keep it handy and use it myself.


This would be a great little device for use by guys who are just getting started, especially when doing the 180 and serving the opposite end of the string.

Automan


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## gdubbmx

Good info again. I can't thank you guys enough for this thread. Huntinsker was right on it when I posted another issue I was having with my twists being uneven, and you both have some pretty neat ideas. Thank you for sharing your wisdom so generously. It's truly a blessing.


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## Huntinsker

I think the biggest confusion comes when you move to the other end of the string. The confusion comes from the direction of travel of the bobbin. If you spin it the same rotational direction but the travel direction changes, the rotational direction is actually backwards too. If you serve towards the posts and you're rotating the bobbin going over the string moving away from you while traveling right to left (towards the left post), you have to have the bobbin coming towards you going over the string when serving from left to right (towards the right post). If you can walk around your jig, it all looks the same. If you stay on one side of the jig, it'll look opposite from your perspective. 

This also goes for the middle of the string. You need to serve in the same rotational direction and direction of travel. If your bobbin is moving right to left, even in the middle of the string it needs to be going the same rotational direction as it was when you did your left post end serving.


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## automan26

https://youtu.be/DHEzWjpp6Bo

I tried to make a YouTube video explaining how to determine the proper serving bobbin rotation. I used a new video editing software that TOTALLY SUCKS. The link above will open the video, but my software left the video quite fuzzy. Until I figure out what is going wrong, this video may help explain some of the confusion associated with serving bobbin rotation. Maybe watching it on a cell phone will improve the quality a bit.

Automan


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## JF from VA

Great video. How do you reference the direction of twists from the end of the jig (movable handle end)? In other words, if you were standing at the end of the jig with the movable handle and looking down the jig, would the handle be turned clockwise?


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## automan26

JF from VA said:


> Great video. How do you reference the direction of twists from the end of the jig (movable handle end)? In other words, if you were standing at the end of the jig with the movable handle and looking down the jig, would the handle be turned clockwise?


Yes, you turn the movable handle clockwise as viewed from behind, looking down the string.

Automan


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## K.G.K.

Any experience with the Serving lengthening the completed string (Tension lessens the diameter and the tight serving keeps the diameter narrow causing the addtional length) Do you account for this after twisting to length, and then before serving or do you just adjust the length after completed?


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## automan26

It is not uncommon for the string to lengthen a bit after serving under high tension. I simply add a few twists to get it back to spec after it has been served. When the string is stretched out at high tensions, the string gets longer and just a bit thinner. The serving tends to lock the string in the stretched position and does not allow it to relax completely. On the last string I built, I served it at 200# tension and used string clamps keep the string from twisting and when I had finished, the string relaxed back to spec. High string tension plus high serving bobbin tension will work together to lock the string in the elongated position.


This is the procedure I use, but if others have a different idea, I would be interested in hearing what they have to say.

Automan


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## MandK

Nothing wrong with the video, I think you did a great job of explaining the whole concept.


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## automan26

Thanks... When I watched it on my laptop it looked grainy and fuzzy. On my phone it looks better because the screen is smaller and the pixels are tighter.

Automan


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## K.G.K.

I'm sure this has been covered in detail somewhere in this thread, but ...

I'm building a two color string and the bow owner wants to see the two colors throughout ... 

So do I serve with Halo .014 in White and clarify it, or is there a fishing line (or something else) one could recommend that would fit my Beiter?

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## K.G.K.

Or even direct me to a post covering this ... again thanks!

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## automan26

Page 239, Post 3951 shows .014 Halo. It looks GREAT. I have used 20# Berkeley Fireline Crystal and it wasn't bad at all. Do a thread search for "clear" and you will find lots of posts.

Automan


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## automan26

automan26 said:


> Page 239, Post 3951 shows .014 Halo. It looks GREAT. I have used 20# Berkeley Fireline Crystal and it wasn't bad at all. Do a thread search for "clear" and you will find lots of posts.
> 
> Automan


https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/show...8&p=1108080961&highlight=Clear#post1108080961

Forget my last post
See 5939 in the above link

Automan


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## K.G.K.

Thank you

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## K.G.K.

automan26 said:


> This stuff goes perfectly clear without clarifier. It's really good material.
> 
> Automan


Does the spool fit in a serving tool? 

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## automan26

You have to transfer it to an empty serving spool.
Automan


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## K.G.K.

Also, do you back serve and burns ends the same as other materials?

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## automan26

It works just like all the other serving threads.

Automan


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## K.G.K.

Do you order it online?

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## automan26

I get mine at Runnings, but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find online. (Amazon, etc.)

Automan


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## K.G.K.

I assume the poundage of the line depicts the diameter. So something between .012 - .015 is good? I live in the land of the original BassPro shop. I would imagine they have some fishing line there 

Thanks again!


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## automan26

K.G.K. said:


> I assume the poundage of the line depicts the diameter. So something between .012 - .015 is good? I live in the land of the original BassPro shop. I would imagine they have some fishing line there
> 
> Thanks again!


I am not much of an expert on fishing line. I do know that the Fireline is a different type of line than any other line. It is a fused line and looks a bit different, but I do know that this stuff is thin. I think it runs around 0.012". I have used all of mine and do not have anything to measure, but there is a slight possibility I can get out today and drive to Scheels and talk to those boys and find an answer. The pic shows my empty spool with the specs. .30mm translates to .0118". 


.012"-.015" should be fine. I would have no problem using those diameters for most of what I build. In my opinion only, .015" might be a bit large for end loops, but it will work fine for end serving. I don't serve my loops, I use the tag method, but if I served the loops I would probably try to stay at .012" or less, but that's just me and others may have different ideas about loop serving diameters.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

K.G.K. said:


> Any experience with the Serving lengthening the completed string (Tension lessens the diameter and the tight serving keeps the diameter narrow causing the addtional length) Do you account for this after twisting to length, and then before serving or do you just adjust the length after completed?


I'll add an extra twist to long single cam strings before serving in anticipation of the string being elongated by the large amount of serving on them. It won't be a lot of length change so a twist or two is plenty.


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## Golfnut1969

automan26 said:


> .012"-.015" should be fine. I would have no problem using those diameters for most of what I build. In my opinion only, .015" might be a bit large for end loops, but it will work fine for end serving. I don't serve my loops, I use the tag method, but if I served the loops I would probably try to stay at .012" or less, but that's just me and others may have different ideas about loop serving diameters.
> 
> Automan


For serving my end loops I use 20lb test (0.20mm/0.008 inch) braided fishing line. The small size allows the wraps to stay together and it's also allows for a smooth transition for the end serving to server over.


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## hicktownbowman

For the DIY stretches what spring did you use for the stretcher to reach a 400ish lb compression and where did you get it? 


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## hicktownbowman

For the diy stretcher, what spring did you use and where did you get it? 


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## Huntinsker

hicktownbowman said:


> For the DIY stretches what spring did you use for the stretcher to reach a 400ish lb compression and where did you get it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





hicktownbowman said:


> For the diy stretcher, what spring did you use and where did you get it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


On the first page of the thread in the parts list. 

1 Compression spring— McMaster Carr part Number: 9573K81 Medium Load Chrome-Silicon Steel Die Spring 1.5" Hole, .75" Rod, 2" L, .135" X .345"

It'll go over 500lbs.


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## nestly

The video and the clock indicator are both good Automan, but I think you may not have stressed enough that you have to be serving TOWARDS the indicator for the arrows on the indicator to indicate the correct direction.. If you serve away from the clock indicator, the arrows will be telling you to turn the serving tool CCW. (the wrong way)


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## Binary cam man

Take the jig off the wall bench so you can walk around it. Follow Huntinskers instructions. Left shoulder to the post. Serve clockwise to the post. Walk around to the other post. Same thing, left shoulder serve to the post clockwise. This takes the guess work out of the process. No more gee did I serve in the right direction. Less waist, time and material also. So take your jigs off the wall bench! Thanks Huntinsker!


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## Golfnut1969

Huntinsker said:


> On the first page of the thread in the parts list.
> 
> 1 Compression spring— McMaster Carr part Number: 9573K81 Medium Load Chrome-Silicon Steel Die Spring 1.5" Hole, .75" Rod, 2" L, .135" X .345"
> 
> It'll go over 500lbs.


Here is a link to the part on the McMaster website.
https://www.mcmaster.com/9573K81


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## tommy8553

Thanks for all the help. Going to make a string tonight. Had to weld washers on the tension side because the rod would dip down under pressure. Hopefully i have all the kinks out now. The guides for the serving direction was very helpful. I was confusing myself but belive i have it figured out now. Thanks again for all the great info.









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## smokin x's

Anybody ever build with 452x and X(not x-99,but the discontinued BCY X) in the same set?

I don't remember the dia. Of X off the top of my head and I'm trying to use up the last spool of it that I've got. 

I'd always built sets out of either material with the same strand counts, 20-22 string and 22-24 for cables, so I know the dia. has to be close between the two. But I don't know if its close enough to use both in the same set. 

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## mattafliving

I wouldn’t mix the the two materials, the diameter isn’t the major concern. It’s the different levels of Vectran that will mess things up. I believe 452x is around 33% Vec, while BCYx is in the 12% range. This will cause peep rotation issues and would likely lead to lower string life on the 452x side of the strings because it would take more of the load due to the higher vec %. Shoot me a pm with what colors you are working with, I might have a used spool of BCYx I can send you in that color to help finish up your material, you’ll just need to pay shipping. I’m closing out my BCYx line at the moment anyways. 


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## Huntinsker

smokin x's said:


> Anybody ever build with 452x and X(not x-99,but the discontinued BCY X) in the same set?
> 
> I don't remember the dia. Of X off the top of my head and I'm trying to use up the last spool of it that I've got.
> 
> I'd always built sets out of either material with the same strand counts, 20-22 string and 22-24 for cables, so I know the dia. has to be close between the two. But I don't know if its close enough to use both in the same set.
> 
> Sent from my LGL164VL using Tapatalk


Like mattafliving said, it's not so much the diameters but the different makeup of the materials. They use different percentages of Vectran and different grades of Dyneema and have different stretch characteristics that would most likely lead to a pretty unstable string. If I were to ever mix two materials, it'd be 452x and Trophy but even then, I'd rather not mix and match anything.


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## automan26

https://youtu.be/S65CCgo_A0A

I remade my serving video and I think it is a lot better. The last one had some holes in it and left some guys with some confusion. I think this one is better. If you look it over, feel free to make suggestions for improvement.

Automan


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## patches2565

I have re served my buss and control and without shooting I can tell a difference in how they sit. There used to be bumps in the serving and as I unserved them I could see them stretching out. Pretty neat

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## Ebrathole

Hey guys, just wanted to jump back in here and say y'all are amazing! Bought a ready made jig from Automan and his craftsmanship, fit, and finish were spot on. Also, Automan's communication and assistance was so much more than could ever be expected. Thanks to this thread and everyone who's shared their knowledge here, after a couple short practice strings, I jumped straight into a pinstripe for my first full set. And from the moment I let the string down from serving up til now, 1000's of shots later, my peep hasn't budged, and my tune hasn't changed a bit. I had zero experience building strings before finding this thread, and can confidently say it really is easy to get started and produce very high quality strings. I encourage anyone who is on here kicking the idea around to give it a go. You wont regret it.


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## automan26

Those pins look nice and clean. Great work.

Automan


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## Ebrathole

automan26 said:


> Those pins look nice and clean. Great work.
> 
> Automan


Thank's Automan! Definitely could not have done it without your help!


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## Huntinsker

Ebrathole said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to jump back in here and say y'all are amazing! Bought a ready made jig from Automan and his craftsmanship, fit, and finish were spot on. Also, Automan's communication and assistance was so much more than could ever be expected. Thanks to this thread and everyone who's shared their knowledge here, after a couple short practice strings, I jumped straight into a pinstripe for my first full set. And from the moment I let the string down from serving up til now, 1000's of shots later, my peep hasn't budged, and my tune hasn't changed a bit. I had zero experience building strings before finding this thread, and can confidently say it really is easy to get started and produce very high quality strings. I encourage anyone who is on here kicking the idea around to give it a go. You wont regret it.


That's great! Makes you wonder why anyone tolerates peep rotation from any string they pay for when it's really pretty easy to make a string without that problem.


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## EvilGarfield

First pinstripe string done thanks to your help!

My formula for bcy mercury is not working yet. I started with dL = #turns * 0.012 but I had to add quite a lot of turns

The last string was done with a 0.0085 factor and it was still too long.
I don't know if it's because mercury has really small diameter stands or if my jig bends and does not allow me to lay down the strands with much tension.









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## patches2565

Can someone point me in the direction of making a buss cable with a 4 post jig. I kinda have an idea but need verification.

I was going to lay one color and serving the end then lay the other color and serve the end. 

Next I would serve the cam side and go from there.

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## mattafliving

patches2565 said:


> Can someone point me in the direction of making a buss cable with a 4 post jig. I kinda have an idea but need verification.
> 
> I was going to lay one color and serving the end then lay the other color and serve the end.
> 
> Next I would serve the cam side and go from there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I tension my 4 post when serving so my process is a bit different. I also don’t like my tag ends being on the yoke side. 

I lay down both colors and tie off both on the same end of the jigs. I then Server the cam side. Next I back off the tension and pull half the bundle off of the jigs and tension the post again and serve the strands on the for post. Next, I lower the tension and remove the served yoke and place the unserved yoke back on the jigs, tension then serve.

After they are both served I then untie the tags from the cam side and cut them. 

I developed this process to ensure serving stays aligned and even. 


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## automan26

Ebrathole said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to jump back in here and say y'all are amazing! Bought a ready made jig from Automan and his craftsmanship, fit, and finish were spot on. Also, Automan's communication and assistance was so much more than could ever be expected. Thanks to this thread and everyone who's shared their knowledge here, after a couple short practice strings, I jumped straight into a pinstripe for my first full set. And from the moment I let the string down from serving up til now, 1000's of shots later, my peep hasn't budged, and my tune hasn't changed a bit. I had zero experience building strings before finding this thread, and can confidently say it really is easy to get started and produce very high quality strings. I encourage anyone who is on here kicking the idea around to give it a go. You wont regret it.


In the earliest days of this thread (many years ago) I made the statement that learning to build stings was not a difficult process. One guy posted up that I was crazy and that learning to build strings was more difficult than I was letting on. Well, here we are now and one of our guys posts pics of his first string, and a pinstripe at that, and relates that the string performs perfectly. I guess he just proved that old nay-sayer wrong. Recently another guy told me that all you have to do is follow the steps and your string will turn out just fine.


I am posting this for all the guys who are sitting on the fence, fearful that they will find building strings more difficult than the planed on. There's a ton of guys here willing to help you thru any difficulty you may encounter and if you follow the steps, learning to build strings is doable for anyone who wants to jump in and get started.

Automan


----------



## automan26

EvilGarfield said:


> First pinstripe string done thanks to your help!
> 
> My formula for bcy mercury is not working yet. I started with dL = #turns * 0.012 but I had to add quite a lot of turns
> 
> The last string was done with a 0.0085 factor and it was still too long.
> I don't know if it's because mercury has really small diameter stands or if my jig bends and does not allow me to lay down the strands with much tension.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk


First off---Your string looks awesome. Those colors and that pinstripe really pop. I think your length problem lies in your formula. Instead of using DL=# of twists, start with this formula:
*String length x .75= #of twists * (Since you are using Mercury which may twist up a bit shorter, use .65 instead of .75) Also, since you are building a recurve string, you could drop as low as .5 instead of .75. The more I think about this, .5 might be a good number to use in your formula because a recurve doesn't need as many twists as a compound.
*Number of twists X .012 + targeted string length*= initial post setting.

Example---
50" string x .75= 37.5 (38) twists
38 x .012=.456
.456 + 50= 50.456" (Round this off to 50 7/16") Initial jig post setting


Set your posts at 50 7/16", add 38 twists and you will come somewhere close, probably not perfect, but close enough.

Automan


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## EvilGarfield

Thanks Automan.

I use a twist rate of around .5 for my recurve. For my 70" bow I have a string of ~67" which gives 67" X 0.5 = 33.5 and i round up the #twists to 34. 


automan26 said:


> *String length x .75= #of twists * [...]
> *Number of twists X .012 + targeted string length*= initial post setting.
> 
> Automan


Yes that's what I meant with dL = Number of twists X .012
Basically :
Number of twists X .012 + targeted string length= *dL +targeted string length* = initial post setting.
In my case that would be:
34 * 0.012 + 67 = 0.408 * 67" = ~67.4" initial post length
This however gives me a sting that's way too long. That's why I decreased the 0.012 to 0.0085 but still the string ended up too long. So I think that at some point my strand loosen up and I end up with too long loops. This might well happen when I turn my 4 post jig perpendicular for serving. I must improve how I secure the tread's end on the jig. I just loop it around some screws for now but I might have to tie it down properly.


----------



## chasemukluk

Hey all. These vids could have gotten lost in the amazing thread, so I'm just putting them at the bottom again. Automan helped me build my first string (as did this thread) and helped me out on a few of the parts for my first jig. I made a pretty extensive video series on it on YouTube, so check out the process below! Thanks again, Automan! This is a link to the playlist of the entire series. By the way, these strings have been on my buddies bow for a year now and haven't budged. 

How To Build a Compound Bowstring: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ7LZoJfgP9mBJIYKcIevqGJ8THxNgDTN

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## automan26

Those videos are a good watch for guys just starting out and those of you who just need a slight nudge to jump in and enjoy the thrill of building strings. I put links to those videos in my PowerPoint tutorial and several guys have commented on how it helped them to have something to watch.

Automan


----------



## bowbrothersmdb

EvilGarfield said:


> Thanks Automan.
> 
> I use a twist rate of around .5 for my recurve. For my 70" bow I have a string of ~67" which gives 67" X 0.5 = 33.5 and i round up the #twists to 34.
> 
> 
> Yes that's what I meant with dL = Number of twists X .012
> Basically :
> Number of twists X .012 + targeted string length= *dL +targeted string length* = initial post setting.
> In my case that would be:
> 34 * 0.012 + 67 = 0.408 * 67" = ~67.4" initial post length
> This however gives me a sting that's way too long. That's why I decreased the 0.012 to 0.0085 but still the string ended up too long. So I think that at some point my strand loosen up and I end up with too long loops. This might well happen when I turn my 4 post jig perpendicular for serving. I must improve how I secure the tread's end on the jig. I just loop it around some screws for now but I might have to tie it down properly.


67" sounds too long for a 70" bow. AMO for most bows is 4" shorter than bow length. I couldn't find any string specs for the Sanlida but average brace height for 70" is normally between 8.75 and 9.5 inches. Does your old string give you that?


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## Peyton-11

nice


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## automan26

*More on Killing the Bumps*

Today I am observing our weekly ritual of hunkering down, waiting for a nasty blizzard to blow itself out, so I decided to do some test work for a YouTube video I plan to make. The subject of the video will be about handling those dreaded bumps that sometimes pop up and spoil a perfectly built string. I built and served a short test string and made sure that I got a nice, pretty little bump and proceeded to run through a procedure for eliminating that nasty little sucker.

I removed the serving, just so it was out of the way, then put the string under abut 50# tension and used a blow dryer to warm the string until I could see the wax melt to the point where the string looked like it was dripping wet with water. I heated the string to the point where it was very warm to the touch, but was careful not to get it so hot that I damaged it. I wanted to get it warm enough that I felt there was sufficient heat to soften the wax inside the string. I next increased the tension moderately (maybe 100# or so) and let the string cool. After it had cooled I heated it once more until the wax again melted then ran it up to around 300#, let it set for about a minute, then backed off on all the tension, let the string go slack, and that little rascal bump had vanished.

My approach centered around the idea that wax was the cause of the bump issue and if I could get the wax inside the string flowing again, with the bump under tension, when the wax cooled it would hold the strands of the bump in their proper position. I don't really think there is a set-in-stone procedure for this process other than putting the bump under enough tension to pull the strands in place, then warming the wax around that area so it flows evenly within the bundle and acts like a glue to hold things together properly when everything cools.

I would be the first to admit that the bumps are have no effect on string performance, and if one builds a string for personal use, fighting the bumps is a waste of time, but I can't help myself; If I see a bump in a string I am building for myself, I can't rest until I kill it.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

So I rebuilt my jig. I feel like I've seen this modification in the thread somewhere but I couldn't find it again. I used coupling nuts for plenty of threads and cut a chunk out just over halfway into the all thread so the string is centered in the rod. I rounded part of my tensioning coupling nut for smooth action and the coupling nut on the sprung end rides inside the eye bolt for smooth operation. This mod really cut down on binding and now it basically runs without binding at all. The threaded rod is now 10" long also.

I covered the surface where the post screws in with JB Weld and use a hand file and 800 grit sand paper to sand it all flush and smooth. The JB weld filled any gaps between the rod and coupling nut and now there are no surfaces to snag string material. It all works pretty slick and isn't much work beyond the original design so if you're jumping in for the first time, this is a worthwhile modification upgrade IMO.


----------



## TomMcDonald

Hello experts, 

I posted these questions in the string forum but it's probably better here!

I'm trying to figure out the best way to close my end loops on recurve and longbow strings AFTER they have been served. I've been closing them with the serving jig on the 4 post string building jig, but would like to serve under tension on the stretcher. 

After I serve my loop sections, what is the best way to close the loops and then complete the end serving section? I have in the past been using the tag end method where I close the loop with the tag then twist, tension and serve but it's a bit more tricky with this method... I would like to focus on serving end loops rather than using the tag method.

Also, serve towards the loop or towards the centre of the string??

Thanks so much everybody!

Tom.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> So I rebuilt my jig. I feel like I've seen this modification in the thread somewhere but I couldn't find it again. I used coupling nuts for plenty of threads and cut a chunk out just over halfway into the all thread so the string is centered in the rod. I rounded part of my tensioning coupling nut for smooth action and the coupling nut on the sprung end rides inside the eye bolt for smooth operation. This mod really cut down on binding and now it basically runs without binding at all. The threaded rod is now 10" long also.
> 
> I covered the surface where the post screws in with JB Weld and use a hand file and 800 grit sand paper to sand it all flush and smooth. The JB weld filled any gaps between the rod and coupling nut and now there are no surfaces to snag string material. It all works pretty slick and isn't much work beyond the original design so if you're jumping in for the first time, this is a worthwhile modification upgrade IMO.
> 
> View attachment 6778319


very nice jig! I have been using coupling nuts for years now. I use pb blaster dry lube under the coupling nuts. Turns like butter. No greasy mess. Turns like butter. Who made that expression up? Ha ha ha . Nice jig!


----------



## automan26

There is no need to close the loops before applying the end servings. I made these yesterday and did not close the loops prior to serving the ends. Adding twists to the string will bring the loop ends close enough that the serving bobbin can close the loop very nicely on its own. I haven't closed my loops prior to serving for years. When you serve the ends it is best to go from the inside out---Serve toward the post, not away from it.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> Hello experts,
> 
> I posted these questions in the string forum but it's probably better here!
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the best way to close my end loops on recurve and longbow strings AFTER they have been served. I've been closing them with the serving jig on the 4 post string building jig, but would like to serve under tension on the stretcher.
> 
> After I serve my loop sections, what is the best way to close the loops and then complete the end serving section? I have in the past been using the tag end method where I close the loop with the tag then twist, tension and serve but it's a bit more tricky with this method... I would like to focus on serving end loops rather than using the tag method.
> 
> Also, serve towards the loop or towards the centre of the string??
> 
> Thanks so much everybody!
> 
> Tom.


When I do endless loop recurve strings, I don't close the loops before twisting. In fact I've stopped doing that on my compound strings most of the time as well. Just serve the loops and finish the loop serving like you would finish any other. Then stagger the ends so they don't meet exactly at the same place so there isn't such a large step up from the string onto the loop, and twist. Stretch like that and then do the end serving. I like to serve towards the loops personally. I will decrease my stretcher tension to about 125lbs and loosen my serving bobbing tension slightly while serving up the transition onto the loop and while finishing the serving so that the loop comes together nicely without the end serving biting in and separating the loop serving. 

It all takes a little practice but becomes pretty easy pretty quickly. I have tried serving away from the loops but found that if you're spinning the serving bobbin rather than spinning the string, like on a super server, it's easier to go towards the loop as it's hard to get a good start while going "down hill" on the loop.


----------



## nestly

automan26 said:


> Today I am observing our weekly ritual of hunkering down, waiting for a nasty blizzard to blow itself out, so I decided to do some test work for a YouTube video I plan to make. The subject of the video will be about handling those dreaded bumps that sometimes pop up and spoil a perfectly built string. I built and served a short test string and made sure that I got a nice, pretty little bump and proceeded to run through a procedure for eliminating that nasty little sucker.
> 
> I removed the serving, just so it was out of the way, then put the string under abut 50# tension and used a blow dryer to warm the string until I could see the wax melt to the point where the string looked like it was dripping wet with water. I heated the string to the point where it was very warm to the touch, but was careful not to get it so hot that I damaged it. I wanted to get it warm enough that I felt there was sufficient heat to soften the wax inside the string. I next increased the tension moderately (maybe 100# or so) and let the string cool. After it had cooled I heated it once more until the wax again melted then ran it up to around 300#, let it set for about a minute, then backed off on all the tension, let the string go slack, and that little rascal bump had vanished.
> 
> My approach centered around the idea that wax was the cause of the bump issue and if I could get the wax inside the string flowing again, with the bump under tension, when the wax cooled it would hold the strands of the bump in their proper position. I don't really think there is a set-in-stone procedure for this process other than putting the bump under enough tension to pull the strands in place, then warming the wax around that area so it flows evenly within the bundle and acts like a glue to hold things together properly when everything cools.
> 
> I would be the first to admit that the bumps are have no effect on string performance, and if one builds a string for personal use, fighting the bumps is a waste of time, but I can't help myself; If I see a bump in a string I am building for myself, I can't rest until I kill it.
> 
> Automan


I'm not sure you've really proved the cause of "bumps" is not unequal strand tension. Infact I'd argue you're tests confirm that bumps are the result of unequal strand tension. It's not necessarily that one whole loop is longer than another, but if the serving (or wax) is causing some strands not to stretch/contract at the same rate when going from high to low tension, that's still an uneveness of tension on the strands in the bundle. Heat (and/or a number of shock cycles on the bow) may allow the strands to equalize, but I still think it's better to develop a process that doesn't introduce those unequal tensions within portions of the string to begin with.

IMO, it's not the "wax" that's causing the bumps, the bump is the point where the wax yields because one or more strands is trying to relax more than the other strands, and the "extra" length in those strands puffs out. Imagine one or more strands in the string was made of a material that was more elastic than the others, a rubber band for example, with wax to help hold it all together. That would also cause the bundle to "puff out" when going from high tension to low tension... right?


----------



## lunghit

Wondering if someone can help me out with layout differences between BCY X and 452X. Once BCY came out with the X I switched everything to that and erased all my 452X notes and formulas. Now that X is a thing of the past I am going back to 452X. I remember there was a difference in finished length between the two but not sure which one was longer or shorter. Thanks


----------



## mattafliving

lunghit said:


> Wondering if someone can help me out with layout differences between BCY X and 452X. Once BCY came out with the X I switched everything to that and erased all my 452X notes and formulas. Now that X is a thing of the past I am going back to 452X. I remember there was a difference in finished length between the two but not sure which one was longer or shorter. Thanks


452x will finish shorter 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lunghit

Thanks!!


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## Jabr357

automan26 said:


> https://youtu.be/S65CCgo_A0A
> 
> I remade my serving video and I think it is a lot better. The last one had some holes in it and left some guys with some confusion. I think this one is better. If you look it over, feel free to make suggestions for improvement.
> 
> Automan


Thank you so much for taking the time to make the video Automan - you are the best!! 

I will never be confused by this again!


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## automan26

ThanX..I am happy it clarified the process. Bobbin rotation can become very confusing. I purchased a new camera and editing software so when my part of the world thaws, I hope to open my shop and start cranking out a few more tutorials.

Automan


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## patches2565

Got my bow tuned finally! I reserved all of it. I couldn't get a good tear and kept getting right. I gave up and let it go with a very very small nock right and up I mean maybe a quarter inch. I was able to lay down some 10s. I have since realized my grip is trash and I need to work on it. 

No peep rotation. Thank you all for the information. I have grown exponentially in my knowledge and look forward to helping others

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> When I do endless loop recurve strings, I don't close the loops before twisting. In fact I've stopped doing that on my compound strings most of the time as well. Just serve the loops and finish the loop serving like you would finish any other. Then stagger the ends so they don't meet exactly at the same place so there isn't such a large step up from the string onto the loop, and twist. Stretch like that and then do the end serving. I like to serve towards the loops personally. I will decrease my stretcher tension to about 125lbs and loosen my serving bobbing tension slightly while serving up the transition onto the loop and while finishing the serving so that the loop comes together nicely without the end serving biting in and separating the loop serving.
> 
> It all takes a little practice but becomes pretty easy pretty quickly. I have tried serving away from the loops but found that if you're spinning the serving bobbin rather than spinning the string, like on a super server, it's easier to go towards the loop as it's hard to get a good start while going "down hill" on the loop.


Thanks for that explanation. It makes sense. I Made 4 strings over the weekend and they were great!


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## Jabr357

automan26 said:


> View attachment 6778793
> View attachment 6778795
> 
> 
> There is no need to close the loops before applying the end servings. I made these yesterday and did not close the loops prior to serving the ends. Adding twists to the string will bring the loop ends close enough that the serving bobbin can close the loop very nicely on its own. I haven't closed my loops prior to serving for years. When you serve the ends it is best to go from the inside out---Serve toward the post, not away from it.
> 
> Automan


Is there anyway to smooth or make smaller those "burn" bumps on the serving near the loop? they are small, but very hard and may interfere with the smooth cam rotation at times.

Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

Jabr357 said:


> Is there anyway to smooth or make smaller those "burn" bumps on the serving near the loop? they are small, but very hard and may interfere with the smooth cam rotation at times.
> 
> Thanks


You can just cut the tag end off flush so you don't have an end to melt but you better hope the end never loosens up or your tag end can work out and the serving can come undone. If you're going to do that, make sure to cover the tag end with plenty of wraps and pull it down super tight. I've found that you can really only get 12-15 wraps tight by pulling the tag end and anything ahead of that will only be as tight as it was laid down. Keep that in mind if you're going to cut flush.


----------



## nestly

Jabr357 said:


> Is there anyway to smooth or make smaller those "burn" bumps on the serving near the loop? they are small, but very hard and may interfere with the smooth cam rotation at times.
> 
> Thanks


I don't burn tag ends, I weave them into the bundle and they get trapped/secured/covered by the end servings. The burned balls on end servings should be close enough to the end loops that they are not in the "working area" of the serving, so they wouldn't have any affect on smoothness of draw. (ie burned ends on servings should not be in an area where they are alternating between contacting and not contacting the cam during the draw/shot cycle.)


----------



## sposters

I have been reading this thread for a while now, though I admit I haven't read every single post. There is an impressive amount of information here. Getting ready to build an El Cheap O for myself. The instructions and videos lead me to believe I will enjoy the satisfaction of building my own strings.

The one question I do have, is what would be a good string material to start off with? A lot of the older threads reference 452X, is this a good place to start? Rampage, Fury, X99, etc products also sound good. Just looking for some advice for a newbie.

Shooting a hunting bow at 60-65# with binary cams if that makes a difference


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## PapaD

Just a personal opinion but I don't think there are any bad materials out there,that being said 452x is pretty much a standard to which others are judged.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## sposters

PapaD said:


> Just a personal opinion but I don't think there are any bad materials out there,that being said 452x is pretty much a standard to which others are judged.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I had read that at the start of this thread, but that was over 5 years ago, just wasn't sure if that was still the case


----------



## Huntinsker

sposters said:


> I have been reading this thread for a while now, though I admit I haven't read every single post. There is an impressive amount of information here. Getting ready to build an El Cheap O for myself. The instructions and videos lead me to believe I will enjoy the satisfaction of building my own strings.
> 
> The one question I do have, is what would be a good string material to start off with? A lot of the older threads reference 452X, is this a good place to start? Rampage, Fury, X99, etc products also sound good. Just looking for some advice for a newbie.
> 
> Shooting a hunting bow at 60-65# with binary cams if that makes a difference


452x is good. All my personal bows have Fury on them. It builds nicer and has actually been more stable for me over time.


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## Huntinsker

Pro Tip: When calibrating your rebuilt jig, don't forget to close your quick link. No wonder the weight dropped all of a sudden! :jeez:


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> Pro Tip: When calibrating your rebuilt jig, don't forget to close your quick link. No wonder the weight dropped all of a sudden! :jeez:
> 
> View attachment 6784211


LOL, yeah, the load rating on those is when they are closed. They fail pretty quickly otherwise.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> LOL, yeah, the load rating on those is when they are closed. They fail pretty quickly otherwise.


Surprisingly it went over 450lbs before really stretching out. I was watching the scale and it went 400 to 450 pretty quick and then I just couldn't get it to reach 500. Looked down and had one of those pucker moments haha.


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## lunghit

A quick question that I am probably putting way too much thought into. Lets say you are building a 20 strand two color yoke for a bow (Mathews yoke for example). You layout 5 wraps of each color and serve in the middle. You now remove the 4 tag ends from the jig and cut them flush with the serving. You now have a 16 strand yoke where the bare strands are but a 20 strand yoke under the serving. Measuring the diameter of the serving so it fits into the groove is a priority but can having only 16 strands be an issue?


----------



## nestly

lunghit said:


> A quick question that I am probably putting way too much thought into. Lets say you are building a 20 strand two color yoke for a bow (Mathews yoke for example). You layout 5 wraps of each color and serve in the middle. You now remove the 4 tag ends from the jig and cut them flush with the serving. You now have a 16 strand yoke where the bare strands are but a 20 strand yoke under the serving. Measuring the diameter of the serving so it fits into the groove is a priority but can having only 16 strands be an issue?


My suggestion is not to do 2 colors on those short yokes, just make them single color (or use speckle material) so it's only 16 open strands and 18 under the serving. Other than that, you could use one of the thinner .007 -.008 servings to keep the served diameter smaller.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> A quick question that I am probably putting way too much thought into. Lets say you are building a 20 strand two color yoke for a bow (Mathews yoke for example). You layout 5 wraps of each color and serve in the middle. You now remove the 4 tag ends from the jig and cut them flush with the serving. You now have a 16 strand yoke where the bare strands are but a 20 strand yoke under the serving. Measuring the diameter of the serving so it fits into the groove is a priority but can having only 16 strands be an issue?


Strand count of course is dependent on what material and serving you're using to get the desired final diameter. 20 of 452x should be good with .014 halo though. If you're concerned about the stability of the 16 strands for the yoke but don't want to get too thick on the served portion to fit the ring, maybe lay out 24 strands and serve with .008 spectra or .007 Halo. It's not a wear area, just has to fit.


----------



## lunghit

nestly said:


> My suggestion is not to do 2 colors on those short yokes, just make them single color (or use speckle material) so it's only 16 open strands and 18 under the serving. Other than that, you could use one of the thinner .007 -.008 servings to keep the served diameter smaller.





Huntinsker said:


> Strand count of course is dependent on what material and serving you're using to get the desired final diameter. 20 of 452x should be good with .014 halo though. If you're concerned about the stability of the 16 strands for the yoke but don't want to get too thick on the served portion to fit the ring, maybe lay out 24 strands and serve with .008 spectra or .007 Halo. It's not a wear area, just has to fit.


Good suggestions here so I will try them. I am building with 20 of 452X and .014 Halo and am concerned with the stability of only 16 strands. I will use my calipers and measure the stock mathews yokes and try to get them as close as possible. Two good responses here and I appreciate them.


----------



## nestly

lunghit said:


> Good suggestions here so I will try them. I am building with 20 of 452X and .014 Halo and am concerned with the stability of only 16 strands. I will use my calipers and measure the stock mathews yokes and try to get them as close as possible. Two good responses here and I appreciate them.


I build Mathews yokes with 20 strands of 452X and the center served portion ends up .100" with .014 Halo, and .092" with BCY 2X. 

2X is a great choice for non-wear areas because although it's thickness is spec'd at .015, it's twisted instead of braided so it lays much flatter than similar sized braided servings.


----------



## Mac2118

I have a quick question (hopefully)

I'm going to be building a set of strings, and the factory yoke legs are 7.25" long. I would like to add 2" to them for 9.25" legs (I like to tinker and make small adjustments). The buss cable is 39.75" long. Will I have to make any adjustments to the length of the cable, or am I overthinking things? 

I *think* I should be good, but its easier to ask than to build 2 sets.

Also, since this is going to be a solid color, I'm going to do the fold over method. Since the finished length will be 39.75, it would be 40.1", 29.5 twists. I would make it 80.2" + .375" (to account for post) and the initial layout would be 80.575". Did I do the math correctly on that? I will be making this out of 32 strands of mercury for reference.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## nestly

Mac2118 said:


> I have a quick question (hopefully)
> 
> I'm going to be building a set of strings, and the factory yoke legs are 7.25" long. I would like to add 2" to them for 9.25" legs (I like to tinker and make small adjustments). The buss cable is 39.75" long. Will I have to make any adjustments to the length of the cable, or am I overthinking things?
> 
> I *think* I should be good, but its easier to ask than to build 2 sets.
> 
> Also, since this is going to be a solid color, I'm going to do the fold over method. Since the finished length will be 39.75, it would be 40.1", 29.5 twists. I would make it 80.2" + .375" (to account for post) and the initial layout would be 80.575". Did I do the math correctly on that? I will be making this out of 32 strands of mercury for reference.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


My math says the split buss with 9.25 yoke legs would have to be .029" shorter than the same buss with 7.25" yoke legs assuming a yoke width of 2.75". That's just under 1/32", so only about 1 twist on a cable that length, so not enough to worry about. 

The only time I do folded split yokes is for the new Hoyts with the lower buss yoke. For those, you twist before you fold so you'd have to apply the twist reduction to the whole unfolded length, which would work out like pictured below (for me). If you're twisting after folding, then perhaps your numbers are correct... someone else can verify those as I haven't built that way.


----------



## 48archer

lunghit said:


> A quick question that I am probably putting way too much thought into. Lets say you are building a 20 strand two color yoke for a bow (Mathews yoke for example). You layout 5 wraps of each color and serve in the middle. You now remove the 4 tag ends from the jig and cut them flush with the serving. You now have a 16 strand yoke where the bare strands are but a 20 strand yoke under the serving. Measuring the diameter of the serving so it fits into the groove is a priority but can having only 16 strands be an issue?


Look close at a Mathews yoke, about a 1/2 inch from the edge of where the serving starts is a bulge in the serving, the string material is criss-crossed then served over it to keep the strand count up. Use 3d serving also, it will lay flat and end up a smaller diameter than 014 Halo. Serve about a half inch past where it crosses and cut the tag off and then finish off the rest of the serving.


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## lunghit

48archer said:


> Look close at a Mathews yoke, about a 1/2 inch from the edge of where the serving starts is a bulge in the serving, the string material is criss-crossed then served over it to keep the strand count up. Use 3d serving also, it will lay flat and end up a smaller diameter than 014 Halo. Serve about a half inch past where it crosses and cut the tag off and then finish off the rest of the serving.


Just looked at mine and I see what you mean. I am trying to picture the layout for something like this. In my mind I can picture how one side of the yoke would be done but that side would have two extra strands than the other.


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## patches2565

When setting a 4 post jig does one measure with the posts lined up or with then open?

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## nestly

patches2565 said:


> When setting a 4 post jig does one measure with the posts lined up or with then open?


You can do it either way, just subtract the *center-to-center* distance of your posts when setting in the 4 post configuration. In other words, if your post should be 30" *outside-to-outside *in 2 post configuration, and your posts are 10" wide, then you'd set 20" *outside-to-outside* in 4 post configuration (30 minus 10 = 20). The distance around the posts (loop length) is identical whether the jig arms are turned to be inline with each other, or 90 degrees to each other. 

* click on the pic below if the animation is not working.


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## patches2565

Thank you. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## automan26

Lately, there has been a bit of discussion about closing loops before serving. Today, I was building some threads for my bow and I thought this would be a very good time to take some pics, demonstrating that closing the loop, prior to serving, is not necessary. The first pic shows how the loop naturally closes itself after twisting. The second pic shows how the end serving also helps close the loop. As you can see, the finished product looks just fine. (Ignore the crappy jig!!!! My personal jig is a reject I kept for my own use after a brand of paint I tried failed.)

The camera angle makes the loop appear to be quite long, but it is in fact a lot shorter than it appears.

Automan


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## lunghit

Nice pics automan. I have never closed an endloop before serving. There is no need at all.


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## automan26

Here's the opposite loop. Notice that the serving leading up to the loop lays nice, even and flat. Had I used the tags to close the loop prior to serving, there is no way things would have laid down like this.

Automan


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## Bassmaster29

this is awesome!!


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## lunghit

New serving jig coming out soon. Looks real nice
https://www.octobermountainproducts.com/shop/pro-shop-tools/revolution-serving-jig


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## automan26

That is very interesting. I think there may be one in my future.

Automan


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## NoviceAddicted

*Brass speed nocks*

Hello everyone. Does anyone know where to source brass speed nocks and shrink tubing for compound bow strings? I', pretty sure I have some shrink tubing but, ? Thanks in advance


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## olliedog

I have to admit that I've only ever used a bearpaw. Thus, I've never really thought about thread guides or rollers. The OMP sure does make my bearpaw look clunky. And, reasonably priced too. Thanks for sharing.

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## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> Hello everyone. Does anyone know where to source brass speed nocks and shrink tubing for compound bow strings? I', pretty sure I have some shrink tubing but, ? Thanks in advance


Email Eric Grigs at GAS strings through their website for his "speed stacks". You can get single, double, tripple and I think even 4 nocks in a solid piece. I posted a price sheet that he gave me a few pages back.


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Email Eric Grigs at GAS strings through their website for his "speed stacks". You can get single, double, tripple and I think even 4 nocks in a solid piece. I posted a price sheet that he gave me a few pages back.


I bought the speed stacks and they are nice but there are a couple of things I do not like. One thing is they are a total b***h to crimp. I tried my normal nock set pliers and that didn't do it. Not even close. I actually had to get my heavy duty lineman's pliers and squeeze as hard as I can to get them to crimp tight enough where they wont move. Also I could not get my normal peep tubing over them because they are too big. I had to use shrink wrap which is no big deal but I'd much rather use the tubing. Just something to consider. 

Here is what I always used.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saunders-A...Liner-Speednocks-Bowstring-Nocks/183009497963


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> I bought the speed stacks and they are nice but there are a couple of things I do not like. One thing is they are a total b***h to crimp. I tried my normal nock set pliers and that didn't do it. Not even close. I actually had to get my heavy duty lineman's pliers and squeeze as hard as I can to get them to crimp tight enough where they wont move. Also I could not get my normal peep tubing over them because they are too big. I had to use shrink wrap which is no big deal but I'd much rather use the tubing. Just something to consider.
> 
> Here is what I always used.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saunders-A...Liner-Speednocks-Bowstring-Nocks/183009497963


Good to know. I hadn't heard that about them. I haven't run out of speed chambers yet so I haven't gotten any of the speed stacks yet.


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Good to know. I hadn't heard that about them. I haven't run out of speed chambers yet so I haven't gotten any of the speed stacks yet.


When you do get them let us know what you think. Maybe I got a bad batch or just getting weak lol. If they crimped easier it's all I would use. They also come in a stack of 5 which is perfect for the new Mathews bows.


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## Dustoff

lunghit said:


> New serving jig coming out soon. Looks real nice
> https://www.octobermountainproducts.com/shop/pro-shop-tools/revolution-serving-jig


Looks like a rip off of the Beiter Winder


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## nestly

NoviceAddicted said:


> Hello everyone. Does anyone know where to source brass speed nocks and shrink tubing for compound bow strings? I', pretty sure I have some shrink tubing but, ? Thanks in advance


I buy 100 packs of OMP brass nock sets. (I'd like to find a better source for volume discount though)
I get my heat shrink from Wirecare.com (Shrinkflex Polyolefin Heatshrink Tubing - 3:1 - 1/4")

As for the GAS Speed Chambers, those look like they would be exceptionally hard on a string/serving with what appears to be sharp edges and no cushioning between the serving and the brass.


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## caspian

automan26 said:


> That is very interesting. I think there may be one in my future.
> 
> Automan


I can't find them in stock anywhere, but you can backorder at the current sale price here:

https://www.bowhuntingoutlet.com/bo...volution-serving-jig-w-extra-spool-81476.html


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## NoviceAddicted

Thanks everyone for your posts about speed nocks. I'm going to check it out for next string build. I just got sticker shock looking at a few adds for them. Thanks again!


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## Lygris

Very cool


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## TJ_

What an awesome post! Does anyone have blue prints for this jig?


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## lunghit

Dustoff said:


> Looks like a rip off of the Beiter Winder


It does look similar to the Beiter but who knows it might be better. My only complaint with the Beiter is it seems to loose tension after a long fast run so maybe this will solve that. For the price it's worth a try. Their bow vise is heavy duty and high quality so hopefully they continue that in this tool.


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## Huntinsker

TJ_ said:


> What an awesome post! Does anyone have blue prints for this jig?


Not really. Just the parts list and pictures of how it goes together. I would recommend though modifying it how I have done it post #6674 on page 267. It works a lot smoother that way.


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## wayne.b

G’day All, new to string building, I’m having trouble with getting the finial string length right. It seem I’m always the jig ratio out, that is if I’m building a 60” string I’m always (60” x 1.008 = 60.48) 0.48” out. If I’m following all the steps correctly, and stretching only to 300 lbs, where should I be looking?


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## NoviceAddicted

The basic formula is String length X Twist ratio x .012 + string length if I'm remembering correctly, please excuse it's late and been a couple of months since I made strings for my bows. I know the information is on one of the beginning pages of the comprehensive string making guide here. I.E. finished string is 60" long so basic formula is 60 x .012 x .75 + 60 = 60.54" (.75 being 3/4 of a twist ratio per inch, meaning 45 twists total) so you would run your string material to 60.54 approximately to tag end or serve ends, and then put the 45 twists in string before stretching to 300 lbs, when you take it back down to 100 lbs pressure on string you should be close on length. The .75 is a variable, I.E. if you want more twists per inch x .85 or less twists x .70 This is a great basic formula that may need to be tweaked depending on your stretching methods, how long you stretch for, how many lbs etc. Try to keep your stretching methods as uniform as possible, and if you are coming up long you may tweak like this, I.E 60 x .012 x .75 + 60 x .998 = 60.41892 (or realistically 60.4 strong) a metric tape measure helps. Opposite for if you are coming up short, try at end x 1.002 etc. You are going to have to experiment a little, find what works for you, but it's worth it and should take you within a few twists here and there of exact lengths you want. I hope this helps. Good luck.


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## Huntinsker

Just heard that Brownell is closing shop so if you like their products, better stock up. BCY will basically have a monopoly and who knows what will happen.


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> Just heard that Brownell is closing shop so if you like their products, better stock up. BCY will basically have a monopoly and who knows what will happen.


Any reason given? That move seems sudden.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Any reason given? That move seems sudden.
> 
> Automan


Haven't heard anything specific but did hear April 19th as the last day of operation.


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## cazadordepato29

looks great


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## lunghit

lunghit said:


> I bought the speed stacks and they are nice but there are a couple of things I do not like. One thing is they are a total b***h to crimp. I tried my normal nock set pliers and that didn't do it. Not even close. I actually had to get my heavy duty lineman's pliers and squeeze as hard as I can to get them to crimp tight enough where they wont move. Also I could not get my normal peep tubing over them because they are too big. I had to use shrink wrap which is no big deal but I'd much rather use the tubing. Just something to consider.
> 
> Here is what I always used.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saunders-A...Liner-Speednocks-Bowstring-Nocks/183009497963


And after all that crimping I just noticed three of the 6 stacks are sliding up the string. I am going to remove the string tomorrow and replace all the stacks with single Saunders nocks and cut my losses. These things were nothing but trouble.


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Haven't heard anything specific but did hear April 19th as the last day of operation.


Wow that's crazy. Never would of thought that.


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## 264co

Tag thanks


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## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> And after all that crimping I just noticed three of the 6 stacks are sliding up the string. I am going to remove the string tomorrow and replace all the stacks with single Saunders nocks and cut my losses. These things were nothing but trouble.


Wow that sucks. Sorry that happened. Did you contact Eric Grigs about them? I wonder if others are having the same issues?


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## tiredoldguy

The passion for archery shows in the details taken to complete this project.


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## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Wow that sucks. Sorry that happened. Did you contact Eric Grigs about them? I wonder if others are having the same issues?


I did not but I will send them an email with my issues and let everyone know what he recommends. Great concept but these need some improvement.


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## nestly

lunghit said:


> And after all that crimping I just noticed three of the 6 stacks are sliding up the string. I am going to remove the string tomorrow and replace all the stacks with single Saunders nocks and cut my losses. These things were nothing but trouble.


I imagine "un-crimping" them to remove them will not be an easy task either.


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## lunghit

nestly said:


> I imagine "un-crimping" them to remove them will not be an easy task either.


Actually they came of with little issue. I sent an email to them to see if they have any secrets on how to install them.


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## Eagle Archer

Thanks for sharing, very informative!


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## lunghit

lunghit said:


> I did not but I will send them an email with my issues and let everyone know what he recommends. Great concept but these need some improvement.


They just emailed me back and said they use air crimpers for these nocks.


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## Frank-the-5th

I’ve gotten a case of the bumps and am having trouble finding a solution. I’ve scoured this thread for everyone’s solutions and it seemed like the consensus was over burnishing was the issue. I laid up and 88” string today, was careful to keep strand tension even when laying out and not to pull too tight when doing the initially end loop servings. After that I split the 2 colors and de wax each half of the color. After that I pre tension at 325#, and stretch. After that twist string, stretch again. After I twisted the string this time I noticed the bumps came right after I twisted the string. The only thing I can think of is some part of my de waxing process is creating the bumps. Has anyone dealt with them prior to burnishing the bundle? 


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## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> I’ve gotten a case of the bumps and am having trouble finding a solution. I’ve scoured this thread for everyone’s solutions and it seemed like the consensus was over burnishing was the issue. I laid up and 88” string today, was careful to keep strand tension even when laying out and not to pull too tight when doing the initially end loop servings. After that I split the 2 colors and de wax each half of the color. After that I pre tension at 325#, and stretch. After that twist string, stretch again. After I twisted the string this time I noticed the bumps came right after I twisted the string. The only thing I can think of is some part of my de waxing process is creating the bumps. Has anyone dealt with them prior to burnishing the bundle?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably going to make some enemies right now, but two colors is likely part of the problem. Different spools of the same color do not always have the same amount of wax and do not always have the same stretch rate....exponentially true for different colors. 
One easy indicator of a problem (although not always present) is being able to "feel" the twist under the served portions which indicated one color bundle is thicker and/or not stretched as tight as the other color bundle

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


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## Dustoff

Frank-the-5th said:


> I’ve gotten a case of the bumps and am having trouble finding a solution. I’ve scoured this thread for everyone’s solutions and it seemed like the consensus was over burnishing was the issue. I laid up and 88” string today, was careful to keep strand tension even when laying out and not to pull too tight when doing the initially end loop servings. After that I split the 2 colors and de wax each half of the color. After that I pre tension at 325#, and stretch. After that twist string, stretch again. After I twisted the string this time I noticed the bumps came right after I twisted the string. The only thing I can think of is some part of my de waxing process is creating the bumps. Has anyone dealt with them prior to burnishing the bundle?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is your twist rate?


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## automan26

De-waxing is actually the same as burnishing. It is possible to induce bumps in the de-waxing process. I found a cure for the bumps once they appear. Locate the area of the bump then tension to 50# (ish), this should straighten out the bump. Next, take a hair dryer and apply enough heat to the string to warm up the wax in the middle of the bundle. Next, with the wax still warm, crank the tension up to around 200# or so and use a heavy string or cord to gently rub the string in the area of the bump. When you let down the tension, the bump will probably have vanished. The secret is to pull the strands straight, then soften the wax enough to allow the kinked strands to straighten out so that when the wax cools it will act like a glue to hold the strands straight again.

Automan


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## Frank-the-5th

nestly said:


> Probably going to make some enemies right now, but two colors is likely part of the problem. Different spools of the same color do not always have the same amount of wax and do not always have the same stretch rate....exponentially true for different colors.
> One easy indicator of a problem (although not always present) is being able to "feel" the twist under the served portions which indicated one color bundle is thicker and/or not stretched as tight as the other color bundle
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


The two spoils I’m using do have substantially different amounts of wax in them. I’ll try w different colors. 


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## Frank-the-5th

Dustoff said:


> What is your twist rate?


Twist rate is .69


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## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> The two spoils I’m using do have substantially different amounts of wax in them. I’ll try w different colors.


If you have the time and inclination, I'd suggest building a one color string using exactly the same process as the 2 color you had trouble with. That's going to tell you whether the bumps are process related, or because of variations in the material.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Probably going to make some enemies right now, but two colors is likely part of the problem. Different spools of the same color do not always have the same amount of wax and do not always have the same stretch rate....exponentially true for different colors.
> One easy indicator of a problem (although not always present) is being able to "feel" the twist under the served portions which indicated one color bundle is thicker and/or not stretched as tight as the other color bundle
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


Personally, I think that it's more likely that if you can feel the twist rate under the serving like you're describing, it's because dewaxing pushed the two colors into separate bundles and they feel like two lobes rather than a single round bundle. I've felt that even with the same color string off the same bundle. Now, after I dewax, I pull the strands back apart before twisting so there's not two lobes but rather one round bundle.


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> Personally, I think that it's more likely that if you can feel the twist rate under the serving like you're describing, it's because dewaxing pushed the two colors into separate bundles and they feel like two lobes rather than a single round bundle. I've felt that even with the same color string off the same bundle. Now, after I dewax, I pull the strands back apart before twisting so there's not two lobes but rather one round bundle.


I'm sure that's not the primary cause of the "waviness" I've observed for a variety of reasons.

1) I order mostly the low wax version of my string material and I don't burnish/dewax individual colors/bundles prior to twisting
2) I've noticed it happening with certain colors/spools more than others
3) I can precisely replicate the wavy condition by twisting up one leg of a split yoke more than the other then putting the split cable under tension on the stretcher. The "longer" bundle will snake around the "shorter" bundle, as the "shorter" bundle gets tight first and bears a higher percentage of the load.


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## Frank-the-5th

nestly said:


> If you have the time and inclination, I'd suggest building a one color string using exactly the same process as the 2 color you had trouble with. That's going to tell you whether the bumps are process related, or because of variations in the material.


Good idea. I’ll lay out a single color one and report back with my findings tonight. 



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## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Personally, I think that it's more likely that if you can feel the twist rate under the serving like you're describing, it's because dewaxing pushed the two colors into separate bundles and they feel like two lobes rather than a single round bundle. I've felt that even with the same color string off the same bundle. Now, after I dewax, I pull the strands back apart before twisting so there's not two lobes but rather one round bundle.


I’m gonna make another set tonight and after I dewax them I’ll try separating the bundles. 


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## pat_rogers18

awesome thread! only i don't do with my bow is make my own strings and this may give me the confidence to try it! thanks, great write up


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## caspian

Huntinsker said:


> Haven't heard anything specific but did hear April 19th as the last day of operation.


oh dear. I assume old stocks will exist for a while, but I'm off to buy a personal lifetime supply of Diamondback right now.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> I'm sure that's not the primary cause of the "waviness" I've observed for a variety of reasons.
> 
> 1) I order mostly the low wax version of my string material and I don't burnish/dewax individual colors/bundles prior to twisting
> 2) I've noticed it happening with certain colors/spools more than others
> 3) I can precisely replicate the wavy condition by twisting up one leg of a split yoke more than the other then putting the split cable under tension on the stretcher. The "longer" bundle will snake around the "shorter" bundle, as the "shorter" bundle gets tight first and bears a higher percentage of the load.


No doubt what you've described is a possibility. I've experienced it with a particularly waxy spool of tan 452x. I ended up having to wipe the material down with a towel while laying it out and that helped a lot but I still had to dewax pretty aggressively compared to every other spool I've had. 

That's been pretty rare though and at least in my experience, the lobed bundle is much more common after dewaxing than the spools being that inconsistent. That is one reason though that I'm sad to see Brownell closing. Their consistency spool to spool is quite a bit better than BCY in my experience.


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## boilerfarmer12

i built this string friday night. If you look closely the blue looks much smaller than the yellow. The string has a definite wavy, rope-like feel to it. I noticed this on a set of gold and purple strings i did last fall but this one seems worse. I bought the yellow from the BCY booth at indoor nationals last month. I havent emailed them yet but think I will. The yellow seems like a larger fiber than the blue. Maybe I need to dewax more before twisting?


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## nestly

boilerfarmer12 said:


> i built this string friday night. If you look closely the blue looks much smaller than the yellow. The string has a definite wavy, rope-like feel to it. I noticed this on a set of gold and purple strings i did last fall but this one seems worse. I bought the yellow from the BCY booth at indoor nationals last month. I havent emailed them yet but think I will. The yellow seems like a larger fiber than the blue. Maybe I need to dewax more before twisting?


Don't know that I've seen one quite that wavy before. It may be that the yellow is that much larger, but I'd also be the blue bundle is smaller because it's a lot tighter, and you'd find all kinds of slack in the yellow if you untwisted that string, which is what I was referencing before with regard to different thicknesses and stretch rates. I added a couple of reference lines to your pick to try to demonstrate that it's not just one material being "thicker" the yellow is under less tension and "wrapped" around the blue.

The way to check for thickness is to make a sample string of each material (including serving) and measure the finished diameter.


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## doulos

lunghit said:


> And after all that crimping I just noticed three of the 6 stacks are sliding up the string. I am going to remove the string tomorrow and replace all the stacks with single Saunders nocks and cut my losses. These things were nothing but trouble.


 I have them on 3 PSE bows. Two have about 1000 shots or more. I haven't had any issues yet. But then again I used adhesive shrink tubing. For all I know that could be holding them in place. Im not sure. They were sort of hard to crimp. I have a pretty good crimp tool though. Im not sure of the make though. 
Another thing I was thinking is the string diameter. Im not sure what your finished diameter is. But I have them on 3 strings that were built with 24 strands of BCYX. They seemed very snug even before the shrink tubing.
Im getting squeamish to use anymore now even though I have not had a issue. I always wondered about their lack of cushion that a Saunders nock has and if the string was being damaged while putting them on. 
I think they are going to be very difficult to remove without damaging the string. Let us know. Im curious.


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## lunghit

doulos said:


> I have them on 3 PSE bows. Two have about 1000 shots or more. I haven't had any issues yet. But then again I used adhesive shrink tubing. For all I know that could be holding them in place. Im not sure. They were sort of hard to crimp. I have a pretty good crimp tool though. Im not sure of the make though.
> Another thing I was thinking is the string diameter. Im not sure what your finished diameter is. But I have them on 3 strings that were built with 24 strands of BCYX. They seemed very snug even before the shrink tubing.
> Im getting squeamish to use anymore now even though I have not had a issue. I always wondered about their lack of cushion that a Saunders nock has and if the string was being damaged while putting them on.
> I think they are going to be very difficult to remove without damaging the string. Let us know. Im curious.


They came off pretty easily but most likely because I never had a good solid crimp. The thought of having to use a bigger tool with more force does not sit well with me especially since they are not rubber lined. I had them on my Mathews that I built a 24 strand string using 452X so same diameter as your X. They are a great concept but I wish they were just like the rubber lined Saunders nocks but stacked.


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## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> i built this string friday night. If you look closely the blue looks much smaller than the yellow. The string has a definite wavy, rope-like feel to it. I noticed this on a set of gold and purple strings i did last fall but this one seems worse. I bought the yellow from the BCY booth at indoor nationals last month. I havent emailed them yet but think I will. The yellow seems like a larger fiber than the blue. Maybe I need to dewax more before twisting?
> View attachment 6805731


That's a pretty significant difference there. Is the yellow for sure the same material?


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## Frank-the-5th

I want to run a test using process of elimination to get to the bottom of the bumps. I feel like my string making is fairly solid besides this aspect. I wanted to document this until I find a solution in hopes that it’ll help other guys out. 

Here’s my current process:
1. Layout string, serve end loops w tag ends
2. Stretch to 100lbs and de wax each color 1 time 
3. Stretch to 325# for 30 mins
4. Twist string
5. Stretch again for 1.5 hours 
6. Burnish with string material 1 time 
7. Serve at 300#s after resting overnight

The string I’ve been having issues with is an 88 inch Mathews solo can string. I know the length has a lot to do with inconsistent strand layout but I feel if I can master a string this long, I’ll be able to do any. Materials used in this one are BCY Mercury, 30 strands. Two different colored strings, one with much more wax. 

The general consensus on why bumps appear in strings is inconsistent strand tension. It appears this can be caused from:
- inconsistent strand layout
- over waxing
- over burnishing
- two different color strings with significantly different waxes

So for my little experiment, I’m going to remake this same string multiple times using different processes. I’ll Likely only have the time to do 1 per night because this string takes forever to stretch. 

So for test #1, I am going to use the same process i have been using, but I am going to use a single color instead. Will update later tonight after the string finishes stretching. 




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## nestly

The time you spend now figuring things out and perfecting your process will make you a better and more efficient stringmaker. Kudos for putting in the work.


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## boilerfarmer12

Huntinsker said:


> That's a pretty significant difference there. Is the yellow for sure the same material?


both of the labels on the bottom of the spools are '452X'


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## SamT

Frank, when you twist, do you apply any tension load, i.e. 50lbs, 100lbs, 200lbs, etc., or range of load i.e. 50-100lbs, 100-150lbs, etc.?

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## servingspinner

boilerfarmer12 said:


> both of the labels on the bottom of the spools are '452X'


I have had to send spools back because of this same problem....

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## Hunter Hr.

Newbie question here.. Have problem with string untwist after serving.. When i finish the serving and take off string from post string wants to untwist few turns.. Here is my process:

Layout string
Serve end loops
Dewax string
Twist string in 50-70#
And tension string about 300#
Relax string
Burnish and serve

Material is bcy x black

I dont know.. I read alot and watch videos about string building but a must hear yours advice. 
Thanks in advance.. This is the best forum thread on internet!


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## NP Archery

Frank-the-5th said:


> I want to run a test using process of elimination to get to the bottom of the bumps. I feel like my string making is fairly solid besides this aspect. I wanted to document this until I find a solution in hopes that it’ll help other guys out.
> 
> Here’s my current process:
> 1. Layout string, serve end loops w tag ends
> 2. Stretch to 100lbs and de wax each color 1 time
> 3. Stretch to 325# for 30 mins
> 4. Twist string
> 5. Stretch again for 1.5 hours
> 6. Burnish with string material 1 time
> 7. Serve at 300#s after resting overnight
> 
> The string I’ve been having issues with is an 88 inch Mathews solo can string. I know the length has a lot to do with inconsistent strand layout but I feel if I can master a string this long, I’ll be able to do any. Materials used in this one are BCY Mercury, 30 strands. Two different colored strings, one with much more wax.
> 
> The general consensus on why bumps appear in strings is inconsistent strand tension. It appears this can be caused from:
> - inconsistent strand layout
> - over waxing
> - over burnishing
> - two different color strings with significantly different waxes
> 
> So for my little experiment, I’m going to remake this same string multiple times using different processes. I’ll Likely only have the time to do 1 per night because this string takes forever to stretch.
> 
> So for test #1, I am going to use the same process i have been using, but I am going to use a single color instead. Will update later tonight after the string finishes stretching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not a big fan of that much stretching before adding any twist. It may not be your issue but my strings were much smoother with less peep issues when I began to wait to stretch until AFTER I twist. Might be worth a try.....


----------



## Huntinsker

boilerfarmer12 said:


> both of the labels on the bottom of the spools are '452X'


I've seen quite a few reports from people who have gotten mislabeled product from BCY. You might want to do a burn test and see if the fibers burn at the same rate and in the same proportion. 452x is 67% Dyneema and 33% Vectran. You should have 2/3 burn quickly and 1/3 stay longer. Of course use a scrap piece for this.


----------



## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> Newbie question here.. Have problem with string untwist after serving.. When i finish the serving and take off string from post string wants to untwist few turns.. Here is my process:
> 
> Layout string
> Serve end loops
> Dewax string
> Twist string in 50-70#
> And tension string about 300#
> Relax string
> Burnish and serve
> 
> Material is bcy x black
> 
> I dont know.. I read alot and watch videos about string building but a must hear yours advice.
> Thanks in advance.. This is the best forum thread on internet!


Serve the other way. You're likely serving the wrong direction. Not difficult to do it wrong because it's sometimes difficult to understand which way to go. However you're serving now, do the opposite and I bet your problem is fixed.


----------



## Huntinsker

NP Archery said:


> I'm not a big fan of that much stretching before adding any twist. It may not be your issue but my strings were much smoother with less peep issues when I began to wait to stretch until AFTER I twist. Might be worth a try.....


I'm not either. I know in the beginning of the thread that was what I posted as my process but it was overkill. I wish the mods would give me the ability to update that initial post as our collective information and process has changed quite a bit. Now I take it up to 300ish before twisting but only leave it like that for 5-10 minutes, however long it takes me to get some coffee or an adult beverage haha.


----------



## lunghit

NP Archery said:


> I'm not a big fan of that much stretching before adding any twist. It may not be your issue but my strings were much smoother with less peep issues when I began to wait to stretch until AFTER I twist. Might be worth a try.....


I feel the same way. I will stretch at 150 pounds for 20 minutes then twist and stretch at 300. I also never burnish individual colors anymore. After I twist I burnish the whole string.


----------



## lunghit

Frank-the-5th said:


> I want to run a test using process of elimination to get to the bottom of the bumps. I feel like my string making is fairly solid besides this aspect. I wanted to document this until I find a solution in hopes that it’ll help other guys out.
> 
> Here’s my current process:
> 1. Layout string, serve end loops w tag ends
> 2. Stretch to 100lbs and de wax each color 1 time
> 3. Stretch to 325# for 30 mins
> 4. Twist string
> 5. Stretch again for 1.5 hours
> 6. Burnish with string material 1 time
> 7. Serve at 300#s after resting overnight
> 
> The string I’ve been having issues with is an 88 inch Mathews solo can string. I know the length has a lot to do with inconsistent strand layout but I feel if I can master a string this long, I’ll be able to do any. Materials used in this one are BCY Mercury, 30 strands. Two different colored strings, one with much more wax.
> 
> The general consensus on why bumps appear in strings is inconsistent strand tension. It appears this can be caused from:
> - inconsistent strand layout
> - over waxing
> - over burnishing
> - two different color strings with significantly different waxes
> 
> So for my little experiment, I’m going to remake this same string multiple times using different processes. I’ll Likely only have the time to do 1 per night because this string takes forever to stretch.
> 
> So for test #1, I am going to use the same process i have been using, but I am going to use a single color instead. Will update later tonight after the string finishes stretching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looking forward to the results. Thanks for taking the time and doing this.


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## Hunter Hr.

I serve in direction where i twist.. I twist in clockwise and serve clockwise..


----------



## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> I serve in direction where i twist.. I twist in clockwise and serve clockwise..


The problem with saying that is that it depends on which way you're moving the serving jig and how you're looking at the string. It gets really confusing trying to explain it in written word over the internet and is even more difficult if English is not your first language. 

Try this. Serve one part of your string and take it off of the stretcher. If it does not try to twist up or if the twist rate doesn't all of a sudden change on you, chances are that serving is okay. Serve your next section and take it off the jig again. If that section is okay, do the next and the next. If you take your string or cable off the jig and it starts to twist up, then you know that the last section you served is served the wrong way. Reverse your serving on that section and see if it helps. 

There are also good videos by b0w_bender and nestly here in the thread on the proper serving direction also. It's honestly just easier to try it and if it doesn't work, just go the other direction.


----------



## nestly

Clockwise/Clockwise, but that assumes you're standing "ahead" of the string looking back at it when twisting, and standing "behind" the serving tool and serving away from yourself. 

If the string is "untwisting" and/or coiling up when tension is relieved you're almost certainly serving the wrong way.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

I’ve updated my process to include less stretch time prior to twisting the string. I’m gonna do this one at 300#s for 10 mins. 

I’m updating Test #1 as well. For this first test I am going to use the same string colors, and processes as I did before. However, this time I am decreasing the stretch time, and I am going to remove dewaxing from the process altogether for this test, and will only burnish after twisting the string. Updates to come shortly










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## Frank-the-5th

Update to test 1:

The bumps persist after not dewaxing, and to not stretch as long initially. 










Test number 2: 

Same process, but will use a single string color. Will update shortly 


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## caspian

I have largely eliminated my bumps. initially I stopped dewaxing prior to twisting (advice from automan26), but that creates issues with wax smearing onto the lighter bundle when burnishing. I now dewax but very, lightly only.

I have also changed my build process based on a guide Huntinsker wrote - I used to pretension/loop serve/twist under tension/tension out, but I found the odd bump occurred as I relaxed the string afterwards, suggesting the stretching while twisted is not entirely equalising strand tension. so I now tension out untwisted, twist under tension, tension again briefly to set everything, relax, tension to 100lb and set to length, then tension again and end serve. it takes longer but the result appears to be an improvement so far.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Question as a planned first time builder. Is there any benefit to building a mock / short string / cable to work in the process? I know it is a waste of material, but is it a benefit to learning the process? 


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## NP Archery

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Question as a planned first time builder. Is there any benefit to building a mock / short string / cable to work in the process? I know it is a waste of material, but is it a benefit to learning the process?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd just start on a string and go with it. Might as well learn on something useful. 

This is how it's likely to work out..... Your 1st string will wind up in the trash. The 2nd will be as good as most of the factory strings. 3rd string will be a keeper.


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## Hunter Hr.

I follow exactly this steps..


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## automan26

I would suggest a slightly different approach. If you start with an 18" practice string and screw up something, you are not out much. 90 percent of the learning curve is on the ends. You can afford to screw up two 18" practice strings and still use up less material than if you mess up one 50" string..

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> I follow exactly this steps..


Try it the other way. You've got nothing to lose in trying.


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## Frank-the-5th

Update on test 2: 

This string had noticeably fewer bumps. On this string I only see 3, the first test there were at least ten. I believe at this point it has to do with how I am laying out the string, as well as the amount of wax in the material, and specifically when I remove the two tag ends to start the loop building process. I’m gonna run this test again with the single colors and be careful about keep the strand tension equal on both sides. 


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## Hunter Hr.

Huntinsker said:


> Hunter Hr. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I follow exactly this steps..
> 
> 
> 
> Try it the other way. You've got nothing to lose in trying.
Click to expand...

Thanks Huntinsker... Maybe my serving is too tight..


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## Stouff_PAhunter

So another question. I drive a Chevy equinox so I was trying to buy the unistrut local, since I’d have to have my front passenger window down to get it home. Found some strut today, but when I got home I realized it wasn’t the high opening strut I’ve seen on most jigs. I am assuming I mount the nuts on the inside of the channel with the string posts riding on top? 

Are the springs on the nuts needed or can they be clipped off? 


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## nestly

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> So another question. I drive a Chevy equinox so I was trying to buy the unistrut local, since I’d have to have my front passenger window down to get it home. Found some strut today, but when I got home I realized it wasn’t the high opening strut I’ve seen on most jigs. I am assuming I mount the nuts on the inside of the channel with the string posts riding on top?
> 
> Are the springs on the nuts needed or can they be clipped off?


The springs are just a convenience thing to hold the nuts in place until you get the bolt started. You really don't want the springs on any of the nuts if you'll be re-positioning them. I prefer square nuts though, as the standard nuts can turn and come out when moving things.

Sounds like you bought the low profile strut, which will not be rigid enough for string building unless you back it up with something.

I highly recommend McMaster Carr for your strut and strut fastener needs.... They'll have it to you tomorrow and you can usually get the good heavy 11gauge strut for less than the cheap 14gauge Home Depot carries.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

nestly said:


> Sounds like you bought the low profile strut, which will not be rigid enough for string building unless you back it up with something.
> .


I must have gotten the low profile. Can I just mount it to my draw board for rigidity? 


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## jcw740

This is an awesome set up, great job!


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## caspian

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I must have gotten the low profile. Can I just mount it to my draw board for rigidity?


sure, just bolt it down. the 41x41mm stuff still bends far too much to use unsupported anyway. I just bolt mine to my bench when required now, and the rail stands in the corner when not needed.


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## Frank-the-5th

For all of those wondering if the bumps are cosmetic or if the affects strand strength, I spoke to BCY this morning and they told me it was cosmetic only. He suggested stretching at 250#s instead of the 325 I was stretching at. He said a lot of guys who sell strings have dropped down to 250# because it eliminates the bumps and looks better in the packaging. Gonna lay one out tonight at 250# and see if that helps. 


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## lunghit

Frank-the-5th said:


> For all of those wondering if the bumps are cosmetic or if the affects strand strength, I spoke to BCY this morning and they told me it was cosmetic only. He suggested stretching at 250#s instead of the 325 I was stretching at. He said a lot of guys who sell strings have dropped down to 250# because it eliminates the bumps and looks better in the packaging. Gonna lay one out tonight at 250# and see if that helps.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting. Looking forward to your results. I would still prefer to serve at 300 pounds so wouldn't that make the bumps appear?


----------



## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> For all of those wondering if the bumps are cosmetic or if the affects strand strength, I spoke to BCY this morning and they told me it was cosmetic only. He suggested stretching at 250#s instead of the 325 I was stretching at. He said a lot of guys who sell strings have dropped down to 250# because it eliminates the bumps and looks better in the packaging. Gonna lay one out tonight at 250# and see if that helps.


IMO, if you want the best possible string, you'll continue to work on figuring out what's causing the bumps, and eliminate it when possible. There's a reason those bumps form, and it's not because of random acts of nature.


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## Frank-the-5th

lunghit said:


> Interesting. Looking forward to your results. I would still prefer to serve at 300 pounds so wouldn't that make the bumps appear?


I thought the same thing after we hung up and I wish I would have asked him that. I’m gonna pre tension to 250# and serve at 300# like I normally would and see how it comes out. 


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## Frank-the-5th

nestly said:


> IMO, if you want the best possible string, you'll continue to work on figuring out what's causing the bumps, and eliminate it when possible. There's a reason those bumps form, and it's not because of random acts of nature.


If something is cosmetic and doesn’t affect the function of the string at all, I’ll take it. I’ll take function over form everyday. I only make strings for myself and family. 

That being said, (and before I quote what BCY said I’m gonna go ahead and say I didn’t finish my coffee yet when we spoke, so I’m probably gonna mess up what they told me [emoji23]) BCY thinks the reason for the bumps is the type of material (Mercury in this case) and the solution is lower poundage when stretching. They told me because it isn’t a blended material, it stretches differently than 452x does and require as much poundage. 

That being said I’m gonna do what BCY suggested and drop poundage and see what happens. 


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> If something is cosmetic and doesn’t affect the function of the string at all, I’ll take it. I’ll take function over form everyday. I only make strings for myself and family.
> 
> That being said, (and before I quote what BCY said I’m gonna go ahead and say I didn’t finish my coffee yet when we spoke, so I’m probably gonna mess up what they told me [emoji23]) BCY thinks the reason for the bumps is the type of material (Mercury in this case) and the solution is lower poundage when stretching. They told me because it isn’t a blended material, it stretches differently than 452x does and require as much poundage.
> 
> That being said I’m gonna do what BCY suggested and drop poundage and see what happens.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know they're the "material people" but I don't think they have any idea on this particular subject. My worst bumps were when I was using 452x exclusively. I fixed it by not burnishing as much and separating the strands after dewaxing, not sure what thing actually fixed it as I started doing both nearly simultaneously. When I had a super waxy roll of tan 452x, I didn't get bumps. The bundle was wavy but it didn't bump so I'm not convinced that differences in the bundle tension cause bumps either. 

On your next string, try not burnishing at all and see how it goes. I believe that the bumps occur simply as "crumple zones". When we burnish under high tension, we're squeezing the waxed threads together and "solidifying" the wax. If you do that with the bundle under tension, the wax gets pressed together with the strands stretched. When they recoil after coming off of tension, the strands "shrink" but the wax is sticking together. The bumps occur where the wax breaks free and this expands outward as the wax is holding the rest of the bundle together...... maybe "expansion zone" is more appropriate. 

I don't doubt that stretching to only 250lbs will help decrease the bumps but only because the material won't fully stretch. You'll also find that it'll take a ton of time for it to finally "hit bottom". On a side note, I've been stretching my strings to 500lbs while stretching and serving, and I haven't had a bump problem with either 452x or Fury.


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## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> I know they're the "material people" but I don't think they have any idea on this particular subject. My worst bumps were when I was using 452x exclusively. I fixed it by not burnishing as much and separating the strands after dewaxing, not sure what thing actually fixed it as I started doing both nearly simultaneously. When I had a super waxy roll of tan 452x, I didn't get bumps. The bundle was wavy but it didn't bump so I'm not convinced that differences in the bundle tension cause bumps either.
> 
> On your next string, try not burnishing at all and see how it goes. I believe that the bumps occur simply as "crumple zones". When we burnish under high tension, we're squeezing the waxed threads together and "solidifying" the wax. If you do that with the bundle under tension, the wax gets pressed together with the strands stretched. When they recoil after coming off of tension, the strands "shrink" but the wax is sticking together. The bumps occur where the wax breaks free and this expands outward as the wax is holding the rest of the bundle together...... maybe "expansion zone" is more appropriate.
> 
> I don't doubt that stretching to only 250lbs will help decrease the bumps but only because the material won't fully stretch. You'll also find that it'll take a ton of time for it to finally "hit bottom". On a side note, I've been stretching my strings to 500lbs while stretching and serving, and I haven't had a bump problem with either 452x or Fury.


Are you still serving end loops w/ tag ends or are you doing served end loops now? 


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Are you still serving end loops w/ tag ends or are you doing served end loops now?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tag ends. I still need to work out my formula for my 4 post setup. Need to beef up my 4 post with some gussets too.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Tag ends. I still need to work out my formula for my 4 post setup. Need to beef up my 4 post with some gussets too.


10-4, I’m just gonna keep trying things until I find something that works. The reason i ask about the 4 post, it seems like the strand tension would be able to be a lot more even since you’re never removing the tag ends from the jig


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> 10-4, I’m just gonna keep trying things until I find something that works. The reason i ask about the 4 post, it seems like the strand tension would be able to be a lot more even since you’re never removing the tag ends from the jig
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most 4 post setups have a quite a bit of flex in them though, why I'm adding gussets to mine, so you have to be careful when laying them up that you're not wrapping too tightly to flex the posts. There's flex in all of them, you just have to be able to minimize it and work around what you can't eliminate.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Most 4 post setups have a quite a bit of flex in them though, why I'm adding gussets to mine, so you have to be careful when laying them up that you're not wrapping too tightly to flex the posts. There's flex in all of them, you just have to be able to minimize it and work around what you can't eliminate.


Good point. I guess in reality unequal tension can’t be eliminated 100% when laying up regardless if it’s a 2 post or 4 post. 

On a side note, do you separate the different color bundles when doing tag end serving? I was think about that today and that maybe keeping them separated would help prevent the bundles from getting intertwined and would help creat more equal tension. But I could be wrong. Lol 


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Good point. I guess in reality unequal tension can’t be eliminated 100% when laying up regardless if it’s a 2 post or 4 post.
> 
> On a side note, do you separate the different color bundles when doing tag end serving? I was think about that today and that maybe keeping them separated would help prevent the bundles from getting intertwined and would help creat more equal tension. But I could be wrong. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure what you mean by keeping them separate. I do the tag end loops the same as I've always done them from way back in the thread. I start at one end, pull the slack out with those two tag ends, wrap several times, then go to the other end and do the same. I don't finish one loop until I've gone to the other end to pull the slack out of the other set of tag ends so that the tension is as even as possible. I also don't really horse them down. I pull with consistent pressure until I see the strands stop moving on the post then wrap. Doing that on both ends is about the best way I've come up with to get things even.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

The jig setup I bought has a 300lb porch swing spring. Do I need to buy a scale as well? Or do I just fully compress the spring for stretching? 

I do have a 100 lb scale for my draw board to use for measuring the string 

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## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Not sure what you mean by keeping them separate. I do the tag end loops the same as I've always done them from way back in the thread. I start at one end, pull the slack out with those two tag ends, wrap several times, then go to the other end and do the same. I don't finish one loop until I've gone to the other end to pull the slack out of the other set of tag ends so that the tension is as even as possible. I also don't really horse them down. I pull with consistent pressure until I see the strands stop moving on the post then wrap. Doing that on both ends is about the best way I've come up with to get things even.


Sorry I worded that badly. I meant do you separate the colors with golf tees or a string separator while your doing your tag end loops 


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## patches2565

Frank-the-5th said:


> Sorry I worded that badly. I meant do you separate the colors with golf tees or a string separator while your doing your tag end loops
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do. It helps speed things up for me. If using 1 color I obviously do not 

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## patches2565

Today's PSA: It's awesome making bowstrings

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## Frank-the-5th

BUMP UPDATE:

I made the cable for the Mathews switchback today instead of the string. Process overview:
- layout 
- end loops
- stretch 200#s 5 mins
- twist
- stretch 300# 45 mins
- burnish once w/ 3D serving

NO BUMPS!!! 

Im guessing I’ve been having issues with the string because of how long it is. Extra stretch time maybe? I was planning on laying the string out shortly and letting it stretch for at least 1.5 hours at 300#











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## Frank-the-5th

patches2565 said:


> I do. It helps speed things up for me. If using 1 color I obviously do not
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


What does it help you save time with? I’m all for saving time on tag end servings [emoji1303]


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## patches2565

Frank-the-5th said:


> What does it help you save time with? I’m all for saving time on tag end servings [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Personally I use a separator when doing my tag ends to aid in the moment when I go in the middle of the colors toward the end. Mainly it's a preference thing that I saw on the YouTube. 

Over a period of time I have fine tuned my process of making my strings by doing a little product improvement.

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## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> BUMP UPDATE:
> 
> I made the cable for the Mathews switchback today instead of the string. Process overview:
> - layout
> - end loops
> - stretch 200#s 5 mins
> - twist
> - stretch 300# 45 mins
> - burnish once w/ 3D serving
> 
> NO BUMPS!!!
> 
> Im guessing I’ve been having issues with the string because of how long it is. Extra stretch time maybe? I was planning on laying the string out shortly and letting it stretch for at least 1.5 hours at 300#


Is that 1 color, or 2?


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

If I would want to serve my end loops would this diameter powergrip be recommended or not?










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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Sorry I worded that badly. I meant do you separate the colors with golf tees or a string separator while your doing your tag end loops
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do not. I only separate with golf tees to twist.


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## Frank-the-5th

nestly said:


> Is that 1 color, or 2?


1 color yoke cable


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## nestly

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> If I would want to serve my end loops would this diameter powergrip be recommended or not?


You want something that finishes small so as not to bulk up when you go over it with the end servings. I've never used .009 powergrip, but my initial thought is that it's not the bet choice because of it's braided construction, which stays "round", compared to twisted servings such as BCY 2X (.015) or BCY .008 Spectra... both are more economical the Powergrip also.


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## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> 1 color yoke cable


So now that you changed more than 1 thing, you have to determine which is primarily responsible for the bumps not forming. (I already stated my thoughts on the matter)


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## NoviceAddicted

*Working with white no wax String Material*

I have made a few sets of target strings with BCY-X White with no wax and at least some have not seemed as smooth, tough to describe not really bumps but not as nice round symmetrical in places as colored strings with wax. Any tips on working with the white no wax string when using as the one color? Thanks


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> If I would want to serve my end loops would this diameter powergrip be recommended or not?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like nestly said, it'll probably finish a little too big for loop serving. .008 spectra, .007 halo, duragrip or even some smaller diameter fishing lines work really well.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

How many of you guys have made or purchased a layout tension tool and use it regularly? I am thinking it may help from the get go with my string building. I am looking at the one made by Bakers 

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## patches2565

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> How many of you guys have made or purchased a layout tension tool and use it regularly? I am thinking it may help from the get go with my string building. I am looking at the one made by Bakers
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


I just stick to the el cheapo and keep a constantish pressure on the spool and really focus on a good secure tag end. Hasn't failed me since I've used it

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## nestly

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> How many of you guys have made or purchased a layout tension tool and use it regularly? I am thinking it may help from the get go with my string building. I am looking at the one made by Bakers


Not necessary IMO. Tight enough not to sag is about the best guideline I can give. If you're laying out on a conventional type string jig, you don't want to pull too tight as each subsequent wrap compounds the pressure on the jig, bending it inward, and making your earlier loops less tight than your last ones.


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## Frank-the-5th

nestly said:


> So now that you changed more than 1 thing, you have to determine which is primarily responsible for the bumps not forming. (I already stated my thoughts on the matter)


I’m gonna make a 2 string one tonight using the same process, and if that goes well I’ll post my final process. I think part of it is the length of the string. I just think it’s really hard to get the tension equal in an 88 inch string, or more so than a shorter string. I remade the string again last night and only got 2 bumps. I’ve remade the cables twice and neither set had bumps in them. I think the length of the string has a lot to do with it. 


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## TomMcDonald

Hi all,
I need to make 2 Oneida strings and have heard they require double served loops. 
Does anyone know whether the loops themselves are double served, the string ends or both? 
Thanks so much. 
Tom.


----------



## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> I’m gonna make a 2 string one tonight using the same process, and if that goes well I’ll post my final process. I think part of it is the length of the string. I just think it’s really hard to get the tension equal in an 88 inch string, or more so than a shorter string. I remade the string again last night and only got 2 bumps. I’ve remade the cables twice and neither set had bumps in them. I think the length of the string has a lot to do with it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The length shouldn't make a difference in the tension of each strand. It's the same number of wraps on the same number of posts and the material contacts the same surface are of the posts. There is however, more length of material to "stretch" and then contract again causing the "expansion zones" I've mentioned before. In an exaggerated example, if 10 inches has 1" of stretch then 100" would have 10ish" of stretch. Of course that's many times more than what we actually see in a string but you get the idea.


----------



## nestly

Stretch rate (per inch) is the same regardless of the length of the string so length shouldn't increase or decrease "bumps" assuming all else is equal.


----------



## Fiferguy

I just heard that Brownell was going out of business. Anyone have any details?


----------



## mattafliving

Fiferguy said:


> I just heard that Brownell was going out of business. Anyone have any details?


It’s true, they already stopped production. They sent out a notice to all of their dealers. 


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## Fiferguy

mattafliving said:


> It’s true, they already stopped production. They sent out a notice to all of their dealers.


Do you know why? I know they had a smaller market share than BCY, but I didn't think they were in any trouble.


----------



## mattafliving

Fiferguy said:


> Do you know why? I know they had a smaller market share than BCY, but I didn't think they were in any trouble.


I would only be speculating on the reason. Either way it’s always sad to see a company die within the archery industry. When I started working directly with Bloodline in bring our material, we liked the idea of bringing innovation to the market. Competition is key to pushing innovation, so everyone has lost with loss of Brownell. 


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## patches2565

Was timing my target bow and realized pretty quick why it was getting worse....the string and cable are twisted CCW hahaha live and learn

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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Stretch rate (per inch) is the same regardless of the length of the string so length shouldn't increase or decrease "bumps" assuming all else is equal.


Except that if the bumps do occur because of the stretch rate, and you have 10x the length, you have the possibility of 10x the number of bumps that can show up.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Except that if the bumps do occur because of the stretch rate, and you have 10x the length, you have the possibility of 10x the number of bumps that can show up.


When you refer to the stretch rate are you talking about the length of time to stretch, or how far the material actually stretches? 


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> When you refer to the stretch rate are you talking about the length of time to stretch, or how far the material actually stretches?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How much the material actually elongates while on the stretcher. The more elongation, that isn't actual "creep" or "settling", the more the piece will "recoil" and shrink back down. Say a 90" string stretches to 90.75" by the time it hits bottom and 1/2" of that is elastic stretch and not settling, that means that it'll shrink back down 1/2". Where the material is smashed and stuck together by the wax, it can hold that shape but then "blow out" where the wax bond is weaker causing the bumps. That's my theory anyway and of course those numbers are totally made up.

I wonder what would happen if you were to twist and stretch without burnishing. Then after letting it rest and remeasuring at 100lbs before serving, burnish at 150lbs or so so that the string is closer to its final length when the fibers are squeezed together.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

I see what you mean. I’ve been thinking about burnishing it lower poundages. 


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## Frank-the-5th

Any advice for getting pins to layout evenly? Here was my method for them:
- 14 strands one color layed out
- 2 strands of the pin layed out
- 2 of the pin 
- 14 of the one color

I put nails in between each color and the pin, and 2 more between the pin and the colors to keep them on the outside. Here’s what happens: 


















Parts of the string have 2 pins and 1 pin, parts of the string have none, and parts of the string are perfect. I know you can put a piece of string in between the pin before twisting to pull the pin to the top, I was just seeing if there was something I was doing wrong before I try that though. 


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## nestly

Frank-the-5th said:


> Any advice for getting pins to layout evenly? Here was my method for them:
> - 14 strands one color layed out
> - 2 strands of the pin layed out
> - 2 of the pin
> - 14 of the one color
> 
> I put nails in between each color and the pin, and 2 more between the pin and the colors to keep them on the outside. Here’s what happens:
> 
> 
> 
> Parts of the string have 2 pins and 1 pin, parts of the string have none, and parts of the string are perfect. I know you can put a piece of string in between the pin before twisting to pull the pin to the top, I was just seeing if there was something I was doing wrong before I try that though.


If you have the pin separated with golf tees /nails at both ends, the pin should be laying nicely between the colors after twisting, unless the strand tension on the pin is tighter than the others, in which case the pin will bury into the middle of the bundle. Also, if you chase the pin (I don't) and pull too much, you can pull it into the bundle . This video helped me when I started doing pins, even though I no longer do tag end servings, burnish individual colors, or chase the pin.

Golf tees/twisting/chasing pin begins around 19:30


----------



## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Any advice for getting pins to layout evenly? Here was my method for them:
> - 14 strands one color layed out
> - 2 strands of the pin layed out
> - 2 of the pin
> - 14 of the one color
> 
> I put nails in between each color and the pin, and 2 more between the pin and the colors to keep them on the outside. Here’s what happens:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Parts of the string have 2 pins and 1 pin, parts of the string have none, and parts of the string are perfect. I know you can put a piece of string in between the pin before twisting to pull the pin to the top, I was just seeing if there was something I was doing wrong before I try that though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Use slightly larger nails or golf tees. I use golf tees and only very occasionally do I have chase a pin. I've never had it cause a problem chasing them but I prefer not to have to do it if possible.


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Huntinsker said:


> Use slightly larger nails or golf tees. I use golf tees and only very occasionally do I have chase a pin. I've never had it cause a problem chasing them but I prefer not to have to do it if possible.


I think that’s the issue. I’ll get some tees after work and see if the larger diameter helps. Thanks man [emoji1303]


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## Egessner

Well done


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## Mac2118

I just did my first pin stripe last night. it looks great minus at the ends (pin splits a solid color for a twist or two), but they'll be covered by serving anyways. I think it was how my golf tees were positioned, possibly too close to the loop ends. I also don't wrap my loops closed; I let the serving do that.

I have the string and CC done. For my yoke, I want the pin up each leg. Since I'm doing 14-4-14 (32 strand mercury), I was thinking of laying up 14-2 of green/black, then 14-2 of silver/black. Once I have the tag ends done for the yoke, I'll lay the bundles together so the pin matches up, then do my tag end and twist. It makes sense in my head, but if anyone else has another idea, I'm open to it.

Not the best pic..


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## lunghit

Looks great Mac! I like that color combo.


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## automan26

Mac2118 said:


> I just did my first pin stripe last night. it looks great minus at the ends (pin splits a solid color for a twist or two), but they'll be covered by serving anyways. I think it was how my golf tees were positioned, possibly too close to the loop ends. I also don't wrap my loops closed; I let the serving do that.
> 
> I have the string and CC done. For my yoke, I want the pin up each leg. Since I'm doing 14-4-14 (32 strand mercury), I was thinking of laying up 14-2 of green/black, then 14-2 of silver/black. Once I have the tag ends done for the yoke, I'll lay the bundles together so the pin matches up, then do my tag end and twist. It makes sense in my head, but if anyone else has another idea, I'm open to it.
> 
> Not the best pic..
> 
> View attachment 6812765


 That color combo really looks nice. I have been trying to find something for my Bowtech and your string gives me a great idea.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Mac2118 said:


> I just did my first pin stripe last night. it looks great minus at the ends (pin splits a solid color for a twist or two), but they'll be covered by serving anyways. I think it was how my golf tees were positioned, possibly too close to the loop ends. I also don't wrap my loops closed; I let the serving do that.
> 
> I have the string and CC done. For my yoke, I want the pin up each leg. Since I'm doing 14-4-14 (32 strand mercury), I was thinking of laying up 14-2 of green/black, then 14-2 of silver/black. Once I have the tag ends done for the yoke, I'll lay the bundles together so the pin matches up, then do my tag end and twist. It makes sense in my head, but if anyone else has another idea, I'm open to it.
> 
> Not the best pic..
> 
> View attachment 6812765


Lay out 14 green and secure the tag ends at the yoke end then lay out one wrap of the black, 2 black strands, starting at the bottom loop end and secure the one tag and and don't cut the black from the spool, just secure it still on the spool. Finish the yoke loop with the green tag ends then unsecure the black strand on the spool and wrap another loop for the second 2 strands for the second yoke leg. This time secure the black strand at the bottom loop post and cut it from the spool. Now lay out 14 silver starting at the yoke end post again. Finish the yoke loop with the silver tag ends and then finish the bottom loop with the black pinstripe tag ends. Remember to pull the slack out of the black before wrapping. That way you have the pins up each leg of the yoke and only have 3 sets of tag ends to deal with for the 3 loops on the buss cable.


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## Mac2118

Huntinsker said:


> Lay out 14 green and secure the tag ends at the yoke end then lay out one wrap of the black, 2 black strands, starting at the bottom loop end and secure the one tag and and don't cut the black from the spool, just secure it still on the spool. Finish the yoke loop with the green tag ends then unsecure the black strand on the spool and wrap another loop for the second 2 strands for the second yoke leg. This time secure the black strand at the bottom loop post and cut it from the spool. Now lay out 14 silver starting at the yoke end post again. Finish the yoke loop with the silver tag ends and then finish the bottom loop with the black pinstripe tag ends. Remember to pull the slack out of the black before wrapping. That way you have the pins up each leg of the yoke and only have 3 sets of tag ends to deal with for the 3 loops on the buss cable.


Thanks! That doesn't seem too bad... saves the hassle of resetting up the jig after removing one set, and also 3 sets of tag ends to deal with instead of 4. I should have some time tonight to try it out. I'm slowly getting faster at laying these out and doing the tag ends.



automan26 said:


> That color combo really looks nice. I have been trying to find something for my Bowtech and your string gives me a great idea.
> 
> Automan


I was looking for something that would somewhat match a bow I'm getting redone in EV-2, and be a learning experience to make.


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## Frank-the-5th

Here’s another brain puzzler for y’all. On a halon cable, one end loop is not served obviously. If I wanted to do a 2 color w a pin stripe, would you have to wrap the 2 primary colors over the pin tag end, and then serve it? My concern w/ this is that the serving won’t be as tight using 2 tag ends at once, I don’t really see any other way to do it though. Any input is greatly appreciated [emoji1303]


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## lunghit

Frank-the-5th said:


> Here’s another brain puzzler for y’all. On a halon cable, one end loop is not served obviously. If I wanted to do a 2 color w a pin stripe, would you have to wrap the 2 primary colors over the pin tag end, and then serve it? My concern w/ this is that the serving won’t be as tight using 2 tag ends at once, I don’t really see any other way to do it though. Any input is greatly appreciated [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All your tags will be at one end. I layout my first primary color then the pin then the second primary color. I will make my end loop using the first primary color and wrap over the tag ends of the pin and secondary color. When I get enough tag end done to make a loop I will wrap the other tags through the middle of the string and secure them. I also try to stagger the tag ends to make the serving look nicer.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Lay out 14 green and secure the tag ends at the yoke end then lay out one wrap of the black, 2 black strands, starting at the bottom loop end and secure the one tag and and don't cut the black from the spool, just secure it still on the spool. Finish the yoke loop with the green tag ends then unsecure the black strand on the spool and wrap another loop for the second 2 strands for the second yoke leg. This time secure the black strand at the bottom loop post and cut it from the spool. Now lay out 14 silver starting at the yoke end post again. Finish the yoke loop with the silver tag ends and then finish the bottom loop with the black pinstripe tag ends. Remember to pull the slack out of the black before wrapping. That way you have the pins up each leg of the yoke and only have 3 sets of tag ends to deal with for the 3 loops on the buss cable.


This is a very good idea. I always had the pin going up one leg of the yoke but I will definitely be trying this. Thanks


----------



## patches2565

That was the advice I was given on yokes and it was dynamite 

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## Stouff_PAhunter

For you folks who have the gauge made to measure poundage from your spring are you just using an index card or a price of plexiglass? 


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## Frank-the-5th

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> For you folks who have the gauge made to measure poundage from your spring are you just using an index card or a price of plexiglass?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He was using and index card that he cut a notch out to measure it I believe 


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> For you folks who have the gauge made to measure poundage from your spring are you just using an index card or a price of plexiglass?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Frank-the-5th said:


> He was using and index card that he cut a notch out to measure it I believe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I lost the "jig" that I cut when I moved last year so I've just been using my calipers and measuring in the same spot each time and comparing to when I re-calibrated the jig. I've been thinking of new ways to either make a new, more reliable jig, or to mount something like a pointer on the jig itself but I don't build enough strings anymore to really warrant the time spent on it when the calipers work just fine. I might make a jig with 4 sides though, each side cut to a specific length that correlates to a certain poundage. Probably make it out of 1/16" steel sheet so it's durable and I can magnet it to the jig so I don't lose it. Cut one side to measure at 100lbs for sure and then the other 3 at whatever tensions that you consistently use in your process.


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## Hunter Hr.

How you measure tension on serving jig? On digital scale or diferent way..
I read some post that guys put 6-7# in the middle of string and 5# to end of string.
But when i try measure on digital scale even 3# is to tight..


----------



## Mac2118

I took all of the golf tees that I use and put lines with sharpies around them and hold them up to the spring. I put them on all of the tees because I was tired of grabbing the unmarked ones. One of these days I'll cut a piece of sheet metal and bend it around with marks on it so its permanently on the jig itself. But for only making a string every few months, the tees work just fine.


----------



## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> How you measure tension on serving jig? On digital scale or diferent way..
> I read some post that guys put 6-7# in the middle of string and 5# to end of string.
> But when i try measure on digital scale even 3# is to tight..


If 3lbs is too tight, you need to increase the stretching tension or clamp your strings.......... or probably both. For what it's worth, I do not measure serving jig tension any longer. I did initially but then got a feel for how much I was using by watching the string and how much it was moving while serving. The higher you stretch it and the more securely you can hold it from rotating, the tighter you can serve.


----------



## Hunter Hr.

Thanks Huntinsker!!


----------



## nestly

Hunter Hr. said:


> How you measure tension on serving jig? On digital scale or diferent way..
> I read some post that guys put 6-7# in the middle of string and 5# to end of string.
> But when i try measure on digital scale even 3# is to tight..


I use a 15 pound fish scale. 8-9 pounds payout tension on all my servings.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

Possibly a stupid question, but after spending a week re-reading the whole thread, I can’t remember if I’ve seen the answer to this - 

For a 3 post jig, is there a way to make a neat pinstripe with end serving.. the issue I have is that when I go to swap ends, the twisting from doing the endloop serving means that when the loops are closed there’s an unwanted twist that means the colours don’t line up so nice anymore... 

I’ve been making tag-end strings for a couple of years happily, but want to nail the end loop served as well.. 

My help appreciated  


Tom


----------



## Hunter Hr.

nestly said:


> Hunter Hr. said:
> 
> 
> 
> How you measure tension on serving jig? On digital scale or diferent way..
> I read some post that guys put 6-7# in the middle of string and 5# to end of string.
> But when i try measure on digital scale even 3# is to tight..
> 
> 
> 
> I use a 15 pound fish scale. 8-9 pounds payout tension on all my servings.
Click to expand...

Something is weird to me.. I measure 3# and hardly can pull serving from jig.. Hm..


----------



## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> Something is weird to me.. I measure 3# and hardly can pull serving from jig.. Hm..


What jig are you using? When I started building with the cheap red BCY jig, they were very inconsistent and the tension seemed to be higher only because the material feed was so poor. When I got a Beiter, I was able to start serving much tighter because the feed off the bobbin was much smoother and consistent.


----------



## Huntinsker

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Possibly a stupid question, but after spending a week re-reading the whole thread, I can’t remember if I’ve seen the answer to this -
> 
> For a 3 post jig, is there a way to make a neat pinstripe with end serving.. the issue I have is that when I go to swap ends, the twisting from doing the endloop serving means that when the loops are closed there’s an unwanted twist that means the colours don’t line up so nice anymore...
> 
> I’ve been making tag-end strings for a couple of years happily, but want to nail the end loop served as well..
> 
> My help appreciated
> 
> 
> Tom


I've not used a 3 post but when doing served loops on a 4 post jig it seems the trick is to use enough tension to twist the bundle one time. So say you have a red and black bundle with the red laid out on top. Serve the loop tight enough that the red goes into the loop on the top, and comes out of the loop on top of the other side. You'll still likely have trouble when you rotate the piece around the posts to serve the second loop since the bundle will likely roll. I honestly have never made a pinstripe on my 4 post that the pins laid out perfectly. I've covered the ends with black serving so you can't see it so it hasn't mattered but I would like to figure it out if I ever do clear serving.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

Huntinsker said:


> I've not used a 3 post but when doing served loops on a 4 post jig it seems the trick is to use enough tension to twist the bundle one time. So say you have a red and black bundle with the red laid out on top. Serve the loop tight enough that the red goes into the loop on the top, and comes out of the loop on top of the other side. You'll still likely have trouble when you rotate the piece around the posts to serve the second loop since the bundle will likely roll. I honestly have never made a pinstripe on my 4 post that the pins laid out perfectly. I've covered the ends with black serving so you can't see it so it hasn't mattered but I would like to figure it out if I ever do clear serving.


Yeah it’s the clear serving that makes it tricky, I may need to add a piece to my jig to turn it into a 5 post ;-) 

I’m currently using a Little Jon, which is awesome for almost everything! Just not this  

I’ll see how I go keeping an even twist on the endloop though, I think that could be the key, thanks!


----------



## Hunter Hr.

Huntinsker said:


> Hunter Hr. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something is weird to me.. I measure 3# and hardly can pull serving from jig.. Hm..
> 
> 
> 
> What jig are you using? When I started building with the cheap red BCY jig, they were very inconsistent and the tension seemed to be higher only because the material feed was so poor. When I got a Beiter, I was able to start serving much tighter because the feed off the bobbin was much smoother and consistent.
Click to expand...

I have spigarelli jig


----------



## Frank-the-5th

I just wanted to thank huntinsker and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. I joined AT because I was tired of shops messing up my bow, and I started making strings bc I was tired of waiting a month or longer for custom sets. 

All that to say I went down to shoot with my cousin yesterday, who I made a set for last week. It was super cool seeing someone else shoot strings you made. 

Backtrack a little earlier in the day, I stopped by a “pro shop” to get field tips and nocks. As I was checking out they have a sign for strings:

$100 for a NON pre stretched string
$110 for a prestretched 
$129 for a prestretched w/ halo

[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849] so glad I make my own now, I get to make other people happy and avoid being ripped off by shops. Thanks again everyone, hopefully I’ll be able to contribute as I get more experience [emoji1303]


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## TomMcDonald

Hi all,
I need to make 2 Oneida strings and have heard they require double served loops. 
Does anyone know whether the loops themselves are double served, the string ends or both? 
Thanks so much. 
Tom.


----------



## lunghit

Frank-the-5th said:


> Backtrack a little earlier in the day, I stopped by a “pro shop” to get field tips and nocks. As I was checking out they have a sign for strings:
> 
> $100 for a NON pre stretched string
> $110 for a prestretched
> $129 for a prestretched w/ halo


Why would a shop sell a non stretched string and who makes such a thing lol? Seems it would be more of a headache for that shop because chances are they will be doing the tuning and constant peep adjustments till that string settles down. 

But yes I agree nothing beats making your own strings and fine tuning your bow!!


----------



## lunghit

TomMcDonald said:


> Hi all,
> I need to make 2 Oneida strings and have heard they require double served loops.
> Does anyone know whether the loops themselves are double served, the string ends or both?
> Thanks so much.
> Tom.


Looks like just the loops are double served.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/47-1-8-BCY-452X-Bowstring-for-an-Oneida-Bow-String-/291195784367
https://oneidaeaglebows.com/products/bow-strings


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Set going on my Halon 32 and the green set for an MQ1










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## wspicer

Hey guys first I want to say what a informative forum this is I’ve learned so much over the last few years that I’ve felt confident to sell my strings. I’ve been using a 2 post jig and used tag ends for end loops but I just got a 4 post and want to serve the end loops. Question is do you use a smaller diameter serving to make the transition smoother? I’m using.014 for both loop and end serving and it just doesn’t seem to transition like I’d hope. Any help would be appreciated 


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----------



## Frank-the-5th

wspicer said:


> Hey guys first I want to say what a informative forum this is I’ve learned so much over the last few years that I’ve felt confident to sell my strings. I’ve been using a 2 post jig and used tag ends for end loops but I just got a 4 post and want to serve the end loops. Question is do you use a smaller diameter serving to make the transition smoother? I’m using.014 for both loop and end serving and it just doesn’t seem to transition like I’d hope. Any help would be appreciated
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try .007 halo, that’s what most guys use who do served end loops I believe 


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----------



## wspicer

Frank-the-5th said:


> Try .007 halo, that’s what most guys use who do served end loops I believe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you I’ll try that


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----------



## Frank-the-5th

Bumping back up, some end loops I did for my fiancé’s bow. Need to work on my tag end serving going around that first corner on the loop. Seems like if I get gaps that’s where it is. I’ve been thinking about twisting the material so it lays down more like halo or 3D. 











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## TomMcDonald

lunghit said:


> Looks like just the loops are double served.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks for that.


----------



## TomMcDonald

I've had a problem with my last two strings I've hoping someone can help me with. 
Making a 2 colour recurve string with served loops on a 4 post jig. I set the jig posts at the exact length that I want (in this case 65.25"). 
Both strings, even after twisting, have ended up 1/4" to 3/8" longer when I put them on the stretcher for serving. 
My method is to serve the loops, transfer to the stretcher and close the loops with string serving after twisting. This method seems to work fine with the single colour strings I've made. Could it be that my layout is loose, causing the whole thing to get longer when I apply tension? Tension is around 200lb on the stretcher. 
Thanks so much, this is causing me a fair bit of frustration.
Tom.


----------



## TomMcDonald

TomMcDonald said:


> I've had a problem with my last two strings I've hoping someone can help me with.
> Making a 2 colour recurve string with served loops on a 4 post jig. I set the jig posts at the exact length that I want (in this case 65.25").
> Both strings, even after twisting, have ended up 1/4" to 3/8" longer when I put them on the stretcher for serving.
> My method is to serve the loops, transfer to the stretcher and close the loops with string serving after twisting. This method seems to work fine with the single colour strings I've made. Could it be that my layout is loose, causing the whole thing to get longer when I apply tension? Tension is around 200lb on the stretcher.
> Thanks so much, this is causing me a fair bit of frustration.
> Tom.


I forgot to mention I'm using 14 strands of Dynaflight 97.


----------



## patches2565

You should go shorter when laying up on a 4 post jig. For example an 85 inch string for a bear instinct is around 77 3/4 for my jig. And a 2 post is 3/4 inch longer to compensate for twists.

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## mattafliving

TomMcDonald said:


> I've had a problem with my last two strings I've hoping someone can help me with.
> Making a 2 colour recurve string with served loops on a 4 post jig. I set the jig posts at the exact length that I want (in this case 65.25").
> Both strings, even after twisting, have ended up 1/4" to 3/8" longer when I put them on the stretcher for serving.
> My method is to serve the loops, transfer to the stretcher and close the loops with string serving after twisting. This method seems to work fine with the single colour strings I've made. Could it be that my layout is loose, causing the whole thing to get longer when I apply tension? Tension is around 200lb on the stretcher.
> Thanks so much, this is causing me a fair bit of frustration.
> Tom.


What’s the distance between your post on each two post Jig? 

What’s the twist rate that you are using? 




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## Dustoff

TomMcDonald said:


> I've had a problem with my last two strings I've hoping someone can help me with.
> Making a 2 colour recurve string with served loops on a 4 post jig. I set the jig posts at the exact length that I want (in this case 65.25").
> Both strings, even after twisting, have ended up 1/4" to 3/8" longer when I put them on the stretcher for serving.
> My method is to serve the loops, transfer to the stretcher and close the loops with string serving after twisting. This method seems to work fine with the single colour strings I've made. Could it be that my layout is loose, causing the whole thing to get longer when I apply tension? Tension is around 200lb on the stretcher.
> Thanks so much, this is causing me a fair bit of frustration.
> Tom.


How much tension do you have on your string when measuring it? AMO standard is with 100 lbs of force.


----------



## Huntinsker

Hunter Hr. said:


> I have spigarelli jig


I haven't used a Spigarelli jig but just looking at the design of it, I can see how it could cause a less consistent and less smooth of payout compared to something like a Beiter. The tapered barrels and less severe angles of the Beiter do a good job of keeping things more consistent and smooth. The jigs that I started using had very acute bends for the serving to travel through and that made it much harder to the serving to come off cleanly. It seemed like no matter how I adjusted the tension on the jig, the payout was either very loose or very tight and would change quickly. The Beiter fixed all of that.


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## TomMcDonald

patches2565 said:


> You should go shorter when laying up on a 4 post jig. For example an 85 inch string for a bear instinct is around 77 3/4 for my jig. And a 2 post is 3/4 inch longer to compensate for twists.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Thanks - What's the reason behind it needing to be shorter on a 4 post?


----------



## TomMcDonald

Dustoff said:


> How much tension do you have on your string when measuring it? AMO standard is with 100 lbs of force.


Even at slack it's longer than I want it to be under tension. Under tension it grows by around 1/4.
Could I be over tensioning while serving the ends? Or shouldn't it matter?
Thank you.


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## TomMcDonald

mattafliving said:


> What’s the distance between your post on each two post Jig?
> 
> What’s the twist rate that you are using?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hello, jig posts are roughly 12" apart and twist rate is roughly one twist per 2 inches of string length, e.g. .5 or sometimes less.
Thanks.


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## Dustoff

Increase your twist rate to around .67 per inch. I like to serve under very high tension. This will make your string slightly longer so you will just have to adjust your post starting point.


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## nestly

TomMcDonald said:


> Thanks - What's the reason behind it needing to be shorter on a 4 post?


I'm assuming he's subtracting the width of his posts, but if you have a jig that swings on center, the measurement around a 4-post is exactly the same as a 2-post.


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## patches2565

nestly said:


> I'm assuming he's subtracting the width of his posts, but if you have a jig that swings on center, the measurement around a 4-post is exactly the same as a 2-post.


I didnt know that. I have been bringing my 4 post wide first. I think I might keep them narrow to start then turn the jigs for serving.

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## TomMcDonald

Dustoff said:


> Increase your twist rate to around .67 per inch. I like to serve under very high tension. This will make your string slightly longer so you will just have to adjust your post starting point.


Thanks - I'll give it a go.


----------



## TomMcDonald

patches2565 said:


> I didnt know that. I have been bringing my 4 post wide first. I think I might keep them narrow to start then turn the jigs for serving.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I layout with them in line, then swing them open to serve the loops. They pivot in the centre. It's a home-made job so maybe they're not completely square?


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## TomMcDonald

Dustoff said:


> Increase your twist rate to around .67 per inch. I like to serve under very high tension. This will make your string slightly longer so you will just have to adjust your post starting point.


Makes sense. 
Thanks!


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## Frank-the-5th

For those building w/ mercury, are you running the same strand count that everyone uses for fury (32 cables 28 strings) or something else?

Thank ya! 


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## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> Thanks - What's the reason behind it needing to be shorter on a 4 post?


On my 4 post setup, it's because of increased jig flex. 4 posts are often not as stiff as a 2 post setup so when you lay out on one, you need to compensate. Different tools require different processes. Once you get them all figured out, it's no big deal.


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## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> On my 4 post setup, it's because of increased jig flex. 4 posts are often not as stiff as a 2 post setup so when you lay out on one, you need to compensate. Different tools require different processes. Once you get them all figured out, it's no big deal.


Thanks! I'll keep experimenting.


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## TomMcDonald

Is it possible to build a quality string with an uneven number of each color strands in a 2 color string? E.g. 8 strands of one color and 10 strands of the other. I will be serving the ends so I can't figure out how to build the string otherwise!
Thanks very much in advance.
tom.


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## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> Is it possible to build a quality string with an uneven number of each color strands in a 2 color string? E.g. 8 strands of one color and 10 strands of the other. I will be serving the ends so I can't figure out how to build the string otherwise!
> Thanks very much in advance.
> tom.


Sure. I just made a string set for my wife's compound and the string had 24 strands of flo pink and 4 strands of black. 

If you're wanting to do 9 and 9, just start the tag ends at opposite ends. Say you have a black and red string. At the left end of your 4 post, tie off the black tag end at the bottom left post, wrap 4.5 wraps for 9 strands and then tie it off on the bottom right post. Do the opposite for the red. Tie off on the top left, wrap the opposite direction around 4.5 wraps for 9 strands and tie off on the top right post. Serve the ends and cut the tags off.


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## johnnyyukon

subscribed


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## olliedog

Greetings-

I recently tuned back into this thread and started thinking about building strings again. For background, I've been working on a project bow - getting rid of the dipped camo and refinishing with gunkote. I really liked my bear anarchy and wanted to keep it going so I decided to give it a refresh. Anyway, I finally finished the stripping, blasting, coating, curing, and reassembly. Moving on to the string build. My question is this - The original string layout includes a very long section of served string from the rear side of the idler wheel and down past the roller guards a few inches. It occurred to me that this might be overkill on the serving. I put a few pieces of masking tape on the serving and drew the bow a few times, each time adjusting the tape such that it marked a section that never went over the idler wheel or through the roller guard. I believe I've located 2 sections of string that dont need to be served under my draw length, etc. I'll include some photos of the areas. What might be the benefits to modifying the serving layout to exclude these areas? Seems silly to ask, my gut tells me there is no reason to serve areas that don't get worn.
















I marked the areas that I think I don't need to serve with a piece of index card (torn into a strip).

On another topic - Several posts back there was a discussion on the string 'bumps' or whatever we are calling them. I've had them before but sort of put them out of my mind and haven't thought much about them. Tonight I was finishing the stretch on my 99 3/8" string for the Anarchy and the string developed the bumps. Not sure if this has been covered previously but I had a thought that maybe the rate at which I took the tension off might lead to or maybe prevent the bumps. Tonight I spun the tension off quickly and the bumps appeared. I'll try to remember to change that up to see the result next time. Anyway - just a thought.

Chris


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## nestly

I think factory strings have the extra serving because it's faster to just run it than to start/stop. I eliminate about 5 inches of servings for all Hoyts with roller guards. There's no difference either way, It just takes a little less serving, and lets a bit more of the string color show if you're running colored serving.


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## Huntinsker

olliedog said:


> Greetings-
> 
> I recently tuned back into this thread and started thinking about building strings again. For background, I've been working on a project bow - getting rid of the dipped camo and refinishing with gunkote. I really liked my bear anarchy and wanted to keep it going so I decided to give it a refresh. Anyway, I finally finished the stripping, blasting, coating, curing, and reassembly. Moving on to the string build. My question is this - The original string layout includes a very long section of served string from the rear side of the idler wheel and down past the roller guards a few inches. It occurred to me that this might be overkill on the serving. I put a few pieces of masking tape on the serving and drew the bow a few times, each time adjusting the tape such that it marked a section that never went over the idler wheel or through the roller guard. I believe I've located 2 sections of string that dont need to be served under my draw length, etc. I'll include some photos of the areas. What might be the benefits to modifying the serving layout to exclude these areas? Seems silly to ask, my gut tells me there is no reason to serve areas that don't get worn.
> 
> View attachment 6820113
> 
> View attachment 6820115
> 
> 
> I marked the areas that I think I don't need to serve with a piece of index card (torn into a strip).
> 
> On another topic - Several posts back there was a discussion on the string 'bumps' or whatever we are calling them. I've had them before but sort of put them out of my mind and haven't thought much about them. Tonight I was finishing the stretch on my 99 3/8" string for the Anarchy and the string developed the bumps. Not sure if this has been covered previously but I had a thought that maybe the rate at which I took the tension off might lead to or maybe prevent the bumps. Tonight I spun the tension off quickly and the bumps appeared. I'll try to remember to change that up to see the result next time. Anyway - just a thought.
> 
> Chris


I have a soft spot for then Anarchy bows too. I too cut the serving way down when I can. Here's what I mapped out way back when for my Anarchy single cam and my draw length. It actually draws 29.75" on the 29" setting but that's my DL so it works out well. Like nestly said, factory strings have a lot of extra because it takes less time to make a straight run than it does to start and stop. They also have to have enough for the longest draw length capability of the cam system and since these go 31.5" which would actually measure 32.25", they need quite a bit.


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## automan26

Everytime I build a string I always take a hard look at serving lengths to determine how much I can safely shorten a served section. I like my colors to show; I like being economical with my serving thread, and I like shortening my build time.

Automan


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## Frank-the-5th

Finally whipped up some string clamps today. Probobly cost me $20 total. Work great thus far [emoji1303] thanks to the guys that posted the plans for them. 











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## CBSimco

Good stuff there. Thanks for sharing


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## chasemukluk

Looking for 2 bows string specs (including serving segments)

Elite Energy 35 2015
Mathews Z7 Extreme

Anyone know where I can find them?

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## mattafliving

chasemukluk said:


> Looking for 2 bows string specs (including serving segments)
> 
> Elite Energy 35 2015
> Mathews Z7 Extreme
> 
> Anyone know where I can find them?
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk














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## chasemukluk

mattafliving said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!

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## Huntinsker

chasemukluk said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


In the future, there are two sticky threads at the top of the Arrows & Strings forum that have string specs. Just use the search function in those. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=97


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## olliedog

Thank you nestly, huntsker, and automan. Used your "tweaked" layout and finished the string today. Cable next. Can't wait to get done and get shooting it again. Made one screw up. Abraded a few fibers on one strand under the center serving. Never would have known but I reserved it and saw that when I pulled the tag end under it partially abraded (cut) a few fibers, not the whole strand, only a very small amount. I'll be backserving diamondback from now on!

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## FlyingWatchmake

Does anyone have a good durable invisible serving at the moment? I made this set for my ct9 2? Weeks ago, and about 1000-1200 shots through and the extreme bends are not kind to them.. :-/

These are x99 with 20# spider wire invisi-braid

Tom


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## lunghit

Flyingwatchmake you might want to try clear Halo instead of the fishing line. Halo or Angel Majesty served very tight (for cables) have worked very well for me with no serving separation issues.


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## mattafliving

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Does anyone have a good durable invisible serving at the moment? I made this set for my ct9 2? Weeks ago, and about 1000-1200 shots through and the extreme bends are not kind to them.. :-/
> 
> These are x99 with 20# spider wire invisi-braid
> 
> Tom
> 
> View attachment 6820639
> View attachment 6820641


I recommend halo, or even powergrip for extreme bends. Fishing line is braided and designed to be slick and come off of a fishing reel with ease, halo and powergrip are braided to to stay in place. I know some people find great success in the fishing line, but I always come back to those two servings. 


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## Dustoff

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Does anyone have a good durable invisible serving at the moment? I made this set for my ct9 2? Weeks ago, and about 1000-1200 shots through and the extreme bends are not kind to them.. :-/
> 
> These are x99 with 20# spider wire invisi-braid
> 
> Tom
> 
> View attachment 6820639
> View attachment 6820641


I'd try some white .014" halo If you want clear.


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## chasemukluk

I have the string Spec thread in my subscribed threads, but it hasn't been showing up in my list the last week or so. I thought maybe it got deleted. Couldn't remember where it was kept as it's been a year since I used it. 

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## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> Sure. I just made a string set for my wife's compound and the string had 24 strands of flo pink and 4 strands of black.
> 
> If you're wanting to do 9 and 9, just start the tag ends at opposite ends. Say you have a black and red string. At the left end of your 4 post, tie off the black tag end at the bottom left post, wrap 4.5 wraps for 9 strands and then tie it off on the bottom right post. Do the opposite for the red. Tie off on the top left, wrap the opposite direction around 4.5 wraps for 9 strands and tie off on the top right post. Serve the ends and cut the tags off.


Thanks - I keep trying to tie off on opposite ends but always end up with strands going completely limp when I turn the jig after serving the first end. Is it possible to lay up and serve the ends with both ends pivoted to be perpendicular to the main jig beam?

In the meantime, I wrapped 8 strands of red, 10 of black and the string came out perfectly. The only thing is one loop is slightly thicker than the other but it's not too bad. 

Thanks for the ongoing assistance!

Tom.


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## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> Thanks - I keep trying to tie off on opposite ends but always end up with strands going completely limp when I turn the jig after serving the first end. Is it possible to lay up and serve the ends with both ends pivoted to be perpendicular to the main jig beam?
> 
> In the meantime, I wrapped 8 strands of red, 10 of black and the string came out perfectly. The only thing is one loop is slightly thicker than the other but it's not too bad.
> 
> Thanks for the ongoing assistance!
> 
> Tom.


I lay out on my 4 post with them perpendicular to the strut. You just have to know the math to get jig set the proper distance. If you have a swinging jig, you could always start with them inline and measure then swing them out before laying out. Check out this post by nestly about it way earlier in the thread.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=125&p=1079987578#post1079987578


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## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> I lay out on my 4 post with them perpendicular to the strut. You just have to know the math to get jig set the proper distance. If you have a swinging jig, you could always start with them inline and measure then swing them out before laying out. Check out this post by nestly about it way earlier in the thread.
> 
> https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=125&p=1079987578#post1079987578


Thanks! That's great.

I'll soak it all up tonight and dive in.

Tom.


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## Phillygoat

Nice string jig very innovative.


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## FlyingWatchmake

Dustoff said:


> I'd try some white .014" halo If you want clear.





mattafliving said:


> I recommend halo, or even powergrip for extreme bends. Fishing line is braided and designed to be slick and come off of a fishing reel with ease, halo and powergrip are braided to to stay in place. I know some people find great success in the fishing line, but I always come back to those two servings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





lunghit said:


> Flyingwatchmake you might want to try clear Halo instead of the fishing line. Halo or Angel Majesty served very tight (for cables) have worked very well for me with no serving separation issues.


Thanks all, I’d been trying to avoid going back to halo, though for the life of me I don’t know why? I think I had it in my head that the braid would be cheaper, which isn’t the case, and the braid does lay down beautifully and works nicely on the cable/rollers .. 

Time to make another set ;-) 

Tom


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## Frank-the-5th

Hey guys, looking for some opinions on a different mounting option for my jig. I’ve had it on a 2x6x10, with a piece of 1-5/8 strut bolted to the top. When you look down the end of the board, it looks like the board is twisting so the jig doesn’t line up square. I’m not sure if it’s the wood I bought or if it twisted from doing solo cam strings. If you are looking at the jig and strut from behind, one jig goes straight up and down so the post is at 90 degrees. However the further one is twisted to the left. 

Again I’m not sure if the board I used just isn’t true, or if I’m getting flex. If anyone has suggestions it would be greatly appreciated [emoji1303]


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## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Hey guys, looking for some opinions on a different mounting option for my jig. I’ve had it on a 2x6x10, with a piece of 1-5/8 strut bolted to the top. When you look down the end of the board, it looks like the board is twisting so the jig doesn’t line up square. I’m not sure if it’s the wood I bought or if it twisted from doing solo cam strings. If you are looking at the jig and strut from behind, one jig goes straight up and down so the post is at 90 degrees. However the further one is twisted to the left.
> 
> Again I’m not sure if the board I used just isn’t true, or if I’m getting flex. If anyone has suggestions it would be greatly appreciated [emoji1303]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have mine doubled up to another piece of strut. Haven't seen any twisting and routinely take strings up to 500lbs. It'll flex a little haven't seen a twist. Unless you mount them to a bench or other structure, it's kind of tough to keep them totally solid. Some day I'm going to weld 3 pieces of strut to a round pipe and have the ability to rotate them around an axis on each end so that I can do 3 pieces at once, kind of like nestly's rotating jig but with 3 pieces instead of just 2. I would imagine that the 3 struts opposing one another on the pipe would make it pretty stout. Just thinking "out loud".


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## olliedog

That's a good idea regarding the pipe with unistrut welded on! I like it. I'm attaching a picture of the ******* engineer solution I came up with for stiffening the strut for single cam string builds. 

I took the jig out in the yard Sunday to enjoy the nice weather. You can see that I have added a cable uderneath. One end is fixed to the strut with a quick link. The other end with a turnbuckle to tighten it up. Works well but won't fix twist. I've not had it twist (yet)..









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## Huntinsker

olliedog said:


> That's a good idea regarding the pipe with unistrut welded on! I like it. I'm attaching a picture of the ******* engineer solution I came up with for stiffening the strut for single cam string builds.
> 
> I took the jig out in the yard Sunday to enjoy the nice weather. You can see that I have added a cable uderneath. One end is fixed to the strut with a quick link. The other end with a turnbuckle to tighten it up. Works well but won't fix twist. I've not had it twist (yet)..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Nice! I'd imagine that'd work well.


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## djorgensen3

Hello all. I have a couple questions. I am getting back into making my own strings and am looking for the specs for a Halon 32/6. I haven't found them yet but I'll keep looking. My second question is about end serving material. Way back when I used to use fastflight serving thread and it worked well for me. It was soft and could be served tightly without any issue with peep twist or loose strands. I do know which direction to serve based on twist direction also. Is there a newer type of serving thread that is similar like Halo or Powergrip? And will the white really look almost clear once its on the string? I currently have black 62XS and I am not entirely fond of it. Also it appears from the stock Zebra string that I took off that it has a lot of serving on it leaving little string exposed hence the question about the white being clear when done. I don't exactly want to cover up most of the string. I'll post pictures of the string jig that I built after I make a couple more adapters for it so I can serve the endloops instead of using tag ends.


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## Huntinsker

djorgensen3 said:


> Hello all. I have a couple questions. I am getting back into making my own strings and am looking for the specs for a Halon 32/6. I haven't found them yet but I'll keep looking. My second question is about end serving material. Way back when I used to use fastflight serving thread and it worked well for me. It was soft and could be served tightly without any issue with peep twist or loose strands. I do know which direction to serve based on twist direction also. Is there a newer type of serving thread that is similar like Halo or Powergrip? And will the white really look almost clear once its on the string? I currently have black 62XS and I am not entirely fond of it. Also it appears from the stock Zebra string that I took off that it has a lot of serving on it leaving little string exposed hence the question about the white being clear when done. I don't exactly want to cover up most of the string. I'll post pictures of the string jig that I built after I make a couple more adapters for it so I can serve the endloops instead of using tag ends.


Most of your questions have been covered a couple times in the thread. If you use the search function you'll probably be able to find days worth of reading. Either way, there are sticky threads in the Arrows & Strings forum that have string specs. The Halon 32 is most likely there since it's pretty common. White halo does turn pretty clear when served with but you have to serve it tightly. I prefer Halo for my end servings. 3d works okay on string end servings too but it's not a good choice for cable ends.

Nestly has some great videos on the direction for string serving based on the twist direction. It's easier to see it than it is to read it. Here's his youtube channel with those videos. https://www.youtube.com/user/1nestly/search?query=serving+direction 

If you can't find the Halon 32 specs, I have them on my other computer and can put them up for you if you need.


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## djorgensen3

Thank you for the serving suggestions. I know which directions to serve based on twist direction. That wasn't/isn't my problem. And yes Idid use the search function multiple times. It comes up with several threads about whether or not the mathews specs are for twisted or untwisted or threads saying the lengths aren't correct. I was just hoping for the string building specs which I haven't found yet but not for lack of trying so thanks for that. I appreciate the help so I guess I'll wing it and hope for the best.


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## Huntinsker

djorgensen3 said:


> Thank you for the serving suggestions. I know which directions to serve based on twist direction. That wasn't/isn't my problem. And yes Idid use the search function multiple times. It comes up with several threads about whether or not the mathews specs are for twisted or untwisted or threads saying the lengths aren't correct. I was just hoping for the string building specs which I haven't found yet but not for lack of trying so thanks for that. I appreciate the help so I guess I'll wing it and hope for the best.


No reason to wing it. It's in the sticky threads that I mentioned. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247&page=350&p=1099252049#post1099252049 

The mathews specs that are really bad are the single cam specs. The Halon 32s that I've built for were built with factory specs and they worked out pretty well.


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## djorgensen3

Well thank you for that too!! I do have a question looking at those specs. Why is the length of serving different on each end of the string? Wouldn't it be the same? I think the factory string was 0-22 on each end. Here is a copy/paste from that link:

Halon 32 str. 63 5/8 cables 29 7/8 yokes 13.0
0...>27.5...>30-34...<23...0
sp nks B.cam [email protected]@[email protected] T.cam [email protected]@[email protected]

0...>8...>12-24.5...0 no serv on this end or loop (big end) x2

0...4" of serv in middle...0 x2


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## mattafliving

djorgensen3 said:


> Well thank you for that too!! I do have a question looking at those specs. Why is the length of serving different on each end of the string? Wouldn't it be the same? I think the factory string was 0-22 on each end. Here is a copy/paste from that link:
> 
> Halon 32 str. 63 5/8 cables 29 7/8 yokes 13.0
> 0...>27.5...>30-34...<23...0
> sp nks B.cam [email protected]@[email protected] T.cam [email protected]@[email protected]
> 
> 0...>8...>12-24.5...0 no serv on this end or loop (big end) x2
> 
> 0...4" of serv in middle...0 x2


Bottom cam serving is longer due to the string stop. 


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## djorgensen3

OH dang didn't think of that....


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## mattafliving

djorgensen3 said:


> OH dang didn't think of that....


I’m not a fan of it, but it’s what the oem string looks like, so customers will want it that way, I would prefer the separation between string soot and bottom cam serving. 


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## FlyingWatchmake

Next fun question ;-) 

How many wraps do you like to backserve on the start/end of each serving piece? I’ve been doing 20 for most (which I think might be overkill?) but have scaled back a bit to 10, especially for 014 white halo and other white/invisibles.. 

Tom


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## caspian

I do 15. 10 seems a bit short, never had one come loose yet so I don't seem to need more.


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## yvedel65

Don't know if in gonna try it yet, but thanks for taking the time to show a very detailed explanation. Good job! Thanks


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## Huntinsker

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Next fun question ;-)
> 
> How many wraps do you like to backserve on the start/end of each serving piece? I’ve been doing 20 for most (which I think might be overkill?) but have scaled back a bit to 10, especially for 014 white halo and other white/invisibles..
> 
> Tom


I do 15, the same as caspian. Seems to be a happy medium.


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## TomMcDonald

Unsatisfied with the small diameter loops when wrapping with the tag end method on my longbow string (14 strand D97), I double wrapped with another piece of string. The diameter is nice now. Just need to shoot a few thousand arrows to see how it holds up. 
Tom.


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## TomMcDonald

TomMcDonald said:


> Unsatisfied with the small diameter loops when wrapping with the tag end method on my longbow string (14 strand D97), I double wrapped with another piece of string. The diameter is nice now. Just need to shoot a few thousand arrows to see how it holds up.
> Tom.


Just realised how ugly the whole thing looks on enlarged photos!


----------



## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> Just realised how ugly the whole thing looks on enlarged photos!


They don't look bad to me. If they wear okay and hold up for you, have at it.


----------



## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> TomMcDonald said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just realised how ugly the whole thing looks on enlarged photos!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't look bad to me. If they wear okay and hold up for you, have at it.
Click to expand...

Thank you. And thanks to you and every other contributor to this thread. I've learnt so much. 
I decided to make another string for my longbow without the double loops. I'm very pleased with the results this time around. 
Tom.


----------



## TomMcDonald

And the rest of the completed string.


----------



## automan26

TomMcDonald said:


> And the rest of the completed string.


I wouldn't have a problem hanging my name on those threads...Good job.

Automan


----------



## TomMcDonald

automan26 said:


> I wouldn't have a problem hanging my name on those threads...Good job.
> 
> Automan


Thanks! And thanks for the thread!


----------



## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> And the rest of the completed string.


Looks great. Great transition up onto the loop too.


----------



## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> TomMcDonald said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the rest of the completed string.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great. Great transition up onto the loop too.
Click to expand...

Thank you. 

Upon reading Automan's review of the Berkley Fireline I found some to try. Very happy with the way it looks. Now to test durability.


----------



## automan26

Those loops are PERFECT. There may be others who can build that well, but no one will ever be able to build better than that. Great job.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Upon reading Automan's review of the Berkley Fireline I found some to try. Very happy with the way it looks. Now to test durability.


Did you put the Fireline down with a serving jig on a 4 post or did you somehow do it on a 2 post setup?


----------



## TomMcDonald

automan26 said:


> Those loops are PERFECT. There may be others who can build that well, but no one will ever be able to build better than that. Great job.
> 
> Automan


Thanks mate!


----------



## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> TomMcDonald said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Upon reading Automan's review of the Berkley Fireline I found some to try. Very happy with the way it looks. Now to test durability.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you put the Fireline down with a serving jig on a 4 post or did you somehow do it on a 2 post setup?
Click to expand...

I used a 4 post but can't see a reason you couldn't wrap it like tag ends. Have you tried that before? 
Tom.


----------



## Huntinsker

TomMcDonald said:


> I used a 4 post but can't see a reason you couldn't wrap it like tag ends. Have you tried that before?
> Tom.


I haven't tried that but have thought about it. The reason I asked was because you don't seem to have any twist at all around the loop so I was wondering what test line and how you got it to go so clear with such low tension on it to not twist the loop?


----------



## TomMcDonald

Huntinsker said:


> TomMcDonald said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used a 4 post but can't see a reason you couldn't wrap it like tag ends. Have you tried that before?
> Tom.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried that but have thought about it. The reason I asked was because you don't seem to have any twist at all around the loop so I was wondering what test line and how you got it to go so clear with such low tension on it to not twist the loop?
Click to expand...

Fair enough. This stuff is 20# test 0.30mm or around .012" (maybe slightly thicker). It's essentially clear outta the package so no need to go too tight. I'm sure Automan can comment on durability but it seems so far to be doing well on the longbow. 
Tom.


----------



## Jabr357

TomMcDonald said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Upon reading Automan's review of the Berkley Fireline I found some to try. Very happy with the way it looks. Now to test durability.


Wow, amazing looking! Great job!

Two questions if you don't mind sharing; how did you make the black serving up to the loop so smooth? How did you finish the ends without the burn "bumps" ?


----------



## thwackaddict

So I am gonna build my first long string.... 88". I usually multiply length by 1.007 or 1.0065 to get post setting then twist it to length. This has worked almost perfect for 56" and under cables and strings. My question is do you think that will work for an 88" also. I think it should.


----------



## TomMcDonald

Jabr357 said:


> Wow, amazing looking! Great job!
> 
> Two questions if you don't mind sharing; how did you make the black serving up to the loop so smooth? How did you finish the ends without the burn "bumps" ?


Thanks so much. 

The black serving is .021" fishing line and the clear is .012" so I'm guessing the big jump in diameter helps it to hide bumps. I back served the clear serving only 3 times on each end and cut flush, then wove the tag ends of the actual string 3 times to make a smoother transition. 

I used the serving jig as far up as possible with the black serving then wrapped by hand for the final 5/8" or so trying to keep even tension then back served using an extra loop of serving thread to pull it through (there is a video by a YouTuber 'Somewhere in Wisconsin' with a video on how to do that). There is a small burn ball but it's hiding on the other side for the photo 

Tom.


----------



## chasemukluk

TomMcDonald said:


> Thanks so much.
> 
> The black serving is .021" fishing line and the clear is .012" so I'm guessing the big jump in diameter helps it to hide bumps. I back served the clear serving only 3 times on each end and cut flush, then wove the tag ends of the actual string 3 times to make a smoother transition.
> 
> I used the serving jig as far up as possible with the black serving then wrapped by hand for the final 5/8" or so trying to keep even tension then back served using an extra loop of serving thread to pull it through (there is a video by a YouTuber 'Somewhere in Wisconsin' with a video on how to do that). There is a small burn ball but it's hiding on the other side for the photo
> 
> Tom.


Tom, thanks for the mention of my Somewhere In Wisconsin video. I think the part you are mentioning is in Part 4. Here's a link! It is at around 10:15 in the video. 

https://youtu.be/ygdZzQ9ic7I





Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


----------



## TomMcDonald

chasemukluk said:


> Tom, thanks for the mention of my Somewhere In Wisconsin video. I think the part you are mentioning is in Part 4. Here's a link! It is at around 10:15 in the video.
> 
> https://youtu.be/ygdZzQ9ic7I
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


Thank you for the good vids! They are helpful.
Tom.


----------



## Huntinsker

thwackaddict said:


> So I am gonna build my first long string.... 88". I usually multiply length by 1.007 or 1.0065 to get post setting then twist it to length. This has worked almost perfect for 56" and under cables and strings. My question is do you think that will work for an 88" also. I think it should.


It'll be close probably. You may end up adding a couple twists before serving to get to the final length but shouldn't take too much.


----------



## bowpress

Looks good, thanks


----------



## Dustoff

This is the jig my father and I built. I've only used it for serving but today I used it as a 2 point string jig and serving machine and it worked great.


----------



## Huntinsker

Dustoff said:


> This is the jig my father and I built. I've only used it for serving but today I used it as a 2 point string jig and serving machine and it worked great.


That's awesome! How did it work out with the curved hooks for posts? Did you have issues with the strand tension being uneven?


----------



## Dustoff

I did not have any issues with strand tension. Everything appeared to come put evenly. It's a new material called VEC-99 from a company called Bloodline. Pretty easy to work with. I'm usually a 4 post guy with served ends but I did tag ends and it worked great. No peep rotation and I used .014 Halo for a clear serving. I only.did the main string but if I like the material I'll change my yokes and cables from Mercury to this stuff. The porch spring at the end gave me 350 lbs of tension while serving. My guess would be approximately 1000 rpm with the DC motor. Works super slick.


----------



## mattafliving

Dustoff said:


> I did not have any issues with strand tension. Everything appeared to come put evenly. It's a new material called VEC-99 from a company called Bloodline. Pretty easy to work with. I'm usually a 4 post guy with served ends but I did tag ends and it worked great. No peep rotation and I used .014 Halo for a clear serving. I only.did the main string but if I like the material I'll change my yokes and cables from Mercury to this stuff. The porch spring at the end gave me 350 lbs of tension while serving. My guess would be approximately 1000 rpm with the DC motor. Works super slick.


I’m partial to bloodline myself. Lol. Cool to finally see that machine! Nice work! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dustoff

mattafliving said:


> I’m partial to bloodline myself. Lol. Cool to finally see that machine! Nice work!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I'll give a full review when I've shot it for a while. Quite promising though.


----------



## mattafliving

This thread is where I started like so many others, really awesome seeing people learning to build strings. Just be careful, one moment your just making strings for friends and family, then next thing you know you are getting request from everyone at your local club. Some of the recent pics I’ve taken of strings made with Bloodline Fibers. 












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----------



## Dustoff

I'm still trying to figure out pin striping. If anyone has good tips I'm all ears.


----------



## mattafliving

Dustoff said:


> I'm still trying to figure out pin striping. If anyone has good tips I'm all ears.










keep the tension lower while twisting, don’t let it get above around 150lbs. Above that and it will tend to pull the pins in the bundles. You can also chase the bundle after twisting with a piece of serving if it still ends up inside the bundle. I’m sure you can search pinstripe in this forum and find a ton of info. 



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----------



## Dustoff

The problem I run into is after peep sight installation. Above the peep the pin stripe, wanders into the the other colors. I'll try chasing it with some scrap material next time.


----------



## mattafliving

Dustoff said:


> The problem I run into is after peep sight installation....


I place the the peep in what I consider “true” string center, so in this case, each side of the peep will have all three colors, the pin will be trapped between the two main colors. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dustoff

mattafliving said:


> I place the the peep in what I consider “true” string center, so in this case, each side of the peep will have all three colors, the pin will be trapped between the two main colors.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know. I'll try it next time. I'm drunk off my backside right now so next time means right now.


----------



## mattafliving

Dustoff said:


> Good to know. I'll try it next time. I'm drunk off my backside right now so next time means right now.


Lol, I know you have my number, So no drunk dialing me. Good luck. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dustoff

mattafliving said:


> Lol, I know you have my number, So no drunk dialing me. Good luck.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ha ha ha. My kid has a mini genesis and he wants red on it. He's getting red.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Can I use my draw board winch to tension the string to 300 lbs to stretch and serve as well as 100 lbs to measure? 


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----------



## Dustoff

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Can I use my draw board winch to tension the string to 300 lbs to stretch and serve as well as 100 lbs to measure?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you fit 1/4" posts on the draw board?


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Dustoff said:


> Can you fit 1/4" posts on the draw board?


Good point

I probably could use the winch to stretch and serve but probably not for measuring 

I have a setup that uses a porch swing spring for tensioning and stretching and I am having problems with my single cam string having enough area on the unistrut to get the tension to 300 lbs to stretch it. 

So I thought if I could get my strut clamped to my drawboard I could use the winch to get the tension to 300 lbs to stretch and serve using one of my posts on the unistrut 


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----------



## Dustoff

How long is your string?


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Finished will be 97 1/8”. 

I know I am probably setting something up wrong.

I have everything put away right now. But I’ll set up everything tomorrow and take a picture of my setup. 

Maybe someone can give me some pointers 


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----------



## Dustoff

That's a long string. What bow is it for?


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Ross CR334 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dustoff

That's just over 8'. Let's see your setup.


----------



## Mcskillz916

Im new to this site. I have read through so much here and there is so much wonderful information.. I am having trouble with the part list and building procedure of the jig though. It seems to me some parts are not listed and also im having some trouble figuring out what exactly some of the bolts etc need to be.. can anyone message me with better explained parts list/build instructions i am really wanting to dive into this. Thanks


----------



## automan26

Mcskillz916 said:


> Im new to this site. I have read through so much here and there is so much wonderful information.. I am having trouble with the part list and building procedure of the jig though. It seems to me some parts are not listed and also im having some trouble figuring out what exactly some of the bolts etc need to be.. can anyone message me with better explained parts list/build instructions i am really wanting to dive into this. Thanks


PM sent

Automan


----------



## automan26

Does anyone have information on the current situation with Brownell?

Automan


----------



## mattafliving

automan26 said:


> Does anyone have information on the current situation with Brownell?
> 
> Automan


Brownell has closed down. Lots more information that I have, but wouldn’t want it to become a rumor mill type of thing. Sad to see any archery company go out of business. There were lots of good people at Brownell, really hope they are all able to find a spot back in the archery industry. 


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## mattafliving

While we are on the string company note. If anyone is interested in trying the bloodline material, I can send you a coupon code for 30% material. For business we have other sample opportunities. Just shoot me a PM. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mattafliving

mattafliving said:


> While we are on the string company note. If anyone is interested in trying the bloodline material, I can send you a coupon code for 30% material. For business we have other sample opportunities. Just shoot me a PM.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correction it’s actually a 50% code 


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----------



## Jabr357

Hi everyone. I am making a string for a Mathews Vertix bow and I have questions about the string end loops - why are the factory strings end loops not served? Is it to grip the cam posts tighter / stop any possible de-railing?

I want to serve the end loops on my string, but I am not sure if this would cause any problems. Thanks in advance.


----------



## servingspinner

My guess and just mine, is it makes it cheaper to manufacture

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Jabr357 said:


> Hi everyone. I am making a string for a Mathews Vertix bow and I have questions about the string end loops - why are the factory strings end loops not served? Is it to grip the cam posts tighter / stop any possible de-railing?
> 
> I want to serve the end loops on my string, but I am not sure if this would cause any problems. Thanks in advance.





servingspinner said:


> My guess and just mine, is it makes it cheaper to manufacture
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


Bingo ^^^ Cheap factory Zebra strings. PSE does the same thing on their entry level mainline bows. Doesn't look good, makes it pain to get them back on the post some times and it's ugly. For what you spend on a bow like that, you'd think they'd do better.


----------



## servingspinner

Huntinsker said:


> Bingo ^^^ Cheap factory Zebra strings. PSE does the same thing on their entry level mainline bows. Doesn't look good, makes it pain to get them back on the post some times and it's ugly. For what you spend on a bow like that, you'd think they'd do better.


I sell a lot of Genesis strings just because I serve the ends

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


----------



## Jabr357

Huntinsker said:


> Bingo ^^^ Cheap factory Zebra strings. PSE does the same thing on their entry level mainline bows. Doesn't look good, makes it pain to get them back on the post some times and it's ugly. For what you spend on a bow like that, you'd think they'd do better.


Thanks - that what I thought too but was not sure LOL.


----------



## Kroach

Great post. Thanks for your time and effort.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Built my 1st set and it was a very fun experience. The idea of building my own strings seems great to me.

Unfortunately my string turned out too long. Was supposed to be 95 1/8" I used the Baker spreadsheet and the string ended up finishing at like 95 3/4" any tips for formulas for a long single cam string? 

I will assume I don't want to just keep twisting this string to get to spec, correct? 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


----------



## mattafliving

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Built my 1st set and it was a very fun experience. The idea of building my own strings seems great to me.
> 
> Unfortunately my string turned out too long. Was supposed to be 95 1/8" I used the Baker spreadsheet and the string ended up finishing at like 95 3/4" any tips for formulas for a long single cam string?
> 
> I will assume I don't want to just keep twisting this string to get to spec, correct?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk












See how this compares to your setup. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

mattafliving said:


> See how this compares to your setup.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll check that. What does the 2 post width variable affect? 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


----------



## mattafliving

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I'll check that. What does the 2 post width variable affect?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


It’s for people using a 3 or 4 post setup for laying out strings. 


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----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Built my 1st set and it was a very fun experience. The idea of building my own strings seems great to me.
> 
> Unfortunately my string turned out too long. Was supposed to be 95 1/8" I used the Baker spreadsheet and the string ended up finishing at like 95 3/4" any tips for formulas for a long single cam string?
> 
> I will assume I don't want to just keep twisting this string to get to spec, correct?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


Every person's formula will be different because we all have different tools, different techniques and personal idiosyncrasies that will change things. You can bank on one thing though. The longer the piece, the more you'll have to take off the initial post setting. 

I always advocate people make a 30, 60 and 90" string with the formula of your choice. Build it to exactly what your formula says to and then when you're done, you'll know how you need to modify the formula. 

In the case of your current string, if you haven't served it yet, you could potentially just add twists to bring it down in length. 1/2" is quite a bit on a longer piece but I've found that with my twist rate, I can reduce the length by 1/8" with 2-4 twists depending on the length of the piece. If that hold with yours, you'd need 8-16 twists, which over a 95" string may not really even be noticeable.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Huntinsker said:


> Every person's formula will be different because we all have different tools, different techniques and personal idiosyncrasies that will change things. You can bank on one thing though. The longer the piece, the more you'll have to take off the initial post setting.
> 
> I always advocate people make a 30, 60 and 90" string with the formula of your choice. Build it to exactly what your formula says to and then when you're done, you'll know how you need to modify the formula.
> 
> In the case of your current string, if you haven't served it yet, you could potentially just add twists to bring it down in length. 1/2" is quite a bit on a longer piece but I've found that with my twist rate, I can reduce the length by 1/8" with 2-4 twists depending on the length of the piece. If that hold with yours, you'd need 8-16 twists, which over a 95" string may not really even be noticeable.


Thanks for that tip. I thought about that but I decided to just go ahead and try one. I’ll give it another try anyway. 

Anyone have some near completed rolls of 452x laying around they would be willing to sell so I can work on this? Color is ‘t important because all I will do is jus scrap them anyway probably




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----------



## mattafliving

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Thanks for that tip. I thought about that but I decided to just go ahead and try one. I’ll give it another try anyway.
> 
> Anyone have some near completed rolls of 452x laying around they would be willing to sell so I can work on this? Color is ‘t important because all I will do is jus scrap them anyway probably
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shoot me your address and I’ll send you a spool of bloodline99( it’s one of the test colors we were running early on, so it’s look more like grass stain green) but I’m not going to use it, nor will it be offered as a color.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mcskillz916

Does anyone here know the specs for a 2012 obsession lethal force, and the correct placement for the speed nocks


----------



## Huntinsker

Mcskillz916 said:


> Does anyone here know the specs for a 2012 obsession lethal force, and the correct placement for the speed nocks


https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=672247&page=233&p=1069616600#post1069616600

Read post 5801, 5802 and 5803.


----------



## Mcskillz916

That says lethal force 2


----------



## Huntinsker

Mcskillz916 said:


> Does anyone here know the specs for a 2012 obsession lethal force, and the correct placement for the speed nocks


String is 55 5/8" and cables are 37 3/16"

String: 0====17----21.75===23.25----26.5====30.5------17=====0
4 speed nocks on each end and what I've found says, "4 speed nocks each end of string at 2.375" from end then towards center". Whatever that means. Maybe that they measured from the end of the cam 2.375" and then the 4 nocks stack towards the center. The end serving is 17" and it looks like the speed nocks start about 1.5" from the end of the end serving.

Cables: 0===5.5------9=====0


----------



## Mcskillz916

Thank you.. i dont understand the formula you typed up but i see the sizes lol thanks i appreciate it


----------



## Jabr357

Mcskillz916 said:


> Thank you.. i dont understand the formula you typed up but i see the sizes lol thanks i appreciate it


Another small tip that has been discussed on this thread before regarding length to lay out. If you serve at 300# tension and serve tightly, make the string 1/8" shorter than the formula says to allow for the lengthening that happens when you serve the string this way. I learned this the hard way.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Jabr357 said:


> Another small tip that has been discussed on this thread before regarding length to lay out. If you serve at 300# tension and serve tightly, make the string 1/8" shorter than the formula says to allow for the lengthening that happens when you serve the string this way. I learned this the hard way.




Thanks for that tip. That will help when I work on my next layup 


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----------



## Huntinsker

Mcskillz916 said:


> Thank you.. i dont understand the formula you typed up but i see the sizes lol thanks i appreciate it


0====17 means that you serve from the 0 point on the string towards the middle for 17". Then you leave it bare from 17 to 21.75" and then served from 21.75" to 23.25" for the string stop. Then it's bare again until 26.5" and served the center serving until 30.5". Then you measure from the other end and serve 17" for the other end serving.

The cables you serve 5.5" of end serving on one end and 9" on the other. These measurements are based on measuring from the outside of your 1/4" posts.


----------



## Mcskillz916

Huntinsker said:


> 0====17 means that you serve from the 0 point on the string towards the middle for 17". Then you leave it bare from 17 to 21.75" and then served from 21.75" to 23.25" for the string stop. Then it's bare again until 26.5" and served the center serving until 30.5". Then you measure from the other end and serve 17" for the other end serving.
> 
> The cables you serve 5.5" of end serving on one end and 9" on the other. These measurements are based on measuring from the outside of your 1/4" posts.


Awesome that makes sense now thanks!!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Archery Talk Forum


----------



## Mcskillz916

So i see a lot on here that you need to twist clockwise, but looking at the string i recently had put on my hoyt, its either a americas best, or a winners choice (i think americas best) my string and cable are twisted counter clockwise.. Are they not supposed to be twisted that way?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Archery Talk Forum


----------



## mattafliving

Mcskillz916 said:


> So i see a lot on here that you need to twist clockwise, but looking at the string i recently had put on my hoyt, its either a americas best, or a winners choice (i think americas best) my string and cable are twisted counter clockwise.. Are they not supposed to be twisted that way?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Archery Talk Forum


Are you sure they aren’t FirstString? 


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----------



## Mcskillz916

mattafliving said:


> Are you sure they aren’t FirstString?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just called to be sure and they are americas best like i thought

Sent from my SM-N950U using Archery Talk Forum


----------



## mattafliving

Deleted comment


----------



## mattafliving

Not sure why that posted twice, but I know firststring twist the other way ABB normally has the standard twist. 


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----------



## Huntinsker

Mcskillz916 said:


> So i see a lot on here that you need to twist clockwise, but looking at the string i recently had put on my hoyt, its either a americas best, or a winners choice (i think americas best) my string and cable are twisted counter clockwise.. Are they not supposed to be twisted that way?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Archery Talk Forum


You don't "need" to twist one way or the other. Most twist clockwise for whatever reason and that's just a coincidence I guess. Whatever you do, make sure your twist direction and serving direction match up or you'll have terrible results.


----------



## Mcskillz916

mattafliving said:


> Not sure why that posted twice, but I know firststring twist the other way ABB normally has the standard twist.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So is this bad? I was really confused when i seen it as everything here ive seen says to twist strings clockwise unless i misread something..

Sent from my SM-N950U using Archery Talk Forum


----------



## Mcskillz916

This is them and the shop just told me they use americas best..


----------



## Mcskillz916

Im just trying to understand why i see to twist clockwise but others twist CCW what is the significance of the twist direction?


----------



## Huntinsker

Mcskillz916 said:


> Im just trying to understand why i see to twist clockwise but others twist CCW what is the significance of the twist direction?


It's completely personal preference. Most on here describe twisting clockwise to keep things simple for people to follow along and understand. Serving direction has been the most discussed and misunderstood part of this whole thread so we're just trying to keep things as easy as possible.


----------



## automan26

I just received a spool of flo green Bloodline. I hope to try it very, very soon. The color really pops and it has an interesting feel. It looks like really nice material. It looks like the new string I built for my Sentinel will be replaced very soon.

Automan


----------



## Mcskillz916

Huntinsker said:


> It's completely personal preference. Most on here describe twisting clockwise to keep things simple for people to follow along and understand. Serving direction has been the most discussed and misunderstood part of this whole thread so we're just trying to keep things as easy as possible.


Ok that makes sense i was just confused from seeing that.. thanks

Sent from my SM-N950U using Archery Talk Forum


----------



## Bownut400

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Built my 1st set and it was a very fun experience. The idea of building my own strings seems great to me.
> 
> Unfortunately my string turned out too long. Was supposed to be 95 1/8" I used the Baker spreadsheet and the string ended up finishing at like 95 3/4" any tips for formulas for a long single cam string?
> 
> I will assume I don't want to just keep twisting this string to get to spec, correct?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


What Matt said was correct, the two post width is for the varying widths of string jigs. mine are normally 8" wide this should not affect the straight line lay out on our spread sheet. That said most will deduct at least a 1/4" on strings over 80". The more string and the more stretch, we haven't figure out how to add hysteresis in our formula. Like Hunstinker said trial and error and make sure to write down what you ended up with so the next time your spot on. The spread sheet can be copied and added to allow for several different lengths. Hope it works better on the next string.
Butch


----------



## bowbrothersmdb

I have added this to my spreadsheet.







When printed on my receipt printer it makes for convenient attachment to the string jig!


----------



## mattafliving

automan26 said:


> I just received a spool of flo green Bloodline. I hope to try it very, very soon. The color really pops and it has an interesting feel. It looks like really nice material. It looks like the new string I built for my Sentinel will be replaced very soon.
> 
> Automan


Your going to really enjoy it! Might be a little surprised at the performance gains as well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattafliving

Two sets of Bloodline Fiber strings I finished up last night. 


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## gad

mattafliving said:


> Two sets of Bloodline Fiber strings I finished up last night.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What kind and size of serving did you used on this amazing job ? Also, how many strands in cables and strings ?


----------



## nestly

Matt has assisted me in getting an order placed for some material that isn't yet on the website. (thank you!) My initial tests will be with white/natural VEC99 as that's the closest to 452X which is what I build with exclusively. I am somewhat excited by the pics of colored strings above though, as without colored wax in the fiber, there shouldn't be as much trouble with 2 or 3 colors strings getting "muddy" under clear servings as the serving drags colored wax around the bundle.


----------



## mattafliving

gad said:


> What kind and size of serving did you used on this amazing job ? Also, how many strands in cables and strings ?


I used .014 halo, .017 3D, and .014 powergrip. All turned pretty damn clear. I pretreat the white serving with mineral oil while it’s on the spool. Really helps get it nice and clear. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattafliving

nestly said:


> Matt has assisted me in getting an order placed for some material that isn't yet on the website. (thank you!) My initial tests will be with white/natural VEC99 as that's the closest to 452X which is what I build with exclusively. I am somewhat excited by the pics of colored strings above though, as without colored wax in the fiber, there shouldn't be as much trouble with 2 or 3 colors strings getting "muddy" under clear servings as the serving drags colored wax around the bundle.


You are correct about that, there is no excess material to remove. So it just serves of super clean. You may get a very slight amount of coating buildup on the serving jig, but it’s extremely tiny. 

No more wax balls all over the shop floor. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Anyone have any pictures of a DIY pinstripe post like the one Bakers sells? 


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## automan26

Go to post 6530, page 262
I threw together an idea for a fellow ATer. He built it and said it worked fine.

Automan


----------



## mibowhunter1989

That looks great


----------



## caspian

Huntinsker said:


> The longer the piece, the more you'll have to take off the initial post setting.


interesting, I get the opposite effect. I ascribe it to the longer pieces having more relaxation recovery. I work off my layup distances being a percentage of desired finished length and strings need to be around 0.5% longer than cables.


----------



## nestly

Bowstrings made of a particular material should elongate the same distance per inch under a given load regardless of length.
Bowstrings made of a particular material should also reduce length the same distance per inch at a given twist rate.
If someone has to "add" or "subtract" for strings over a certain length, their formula probably needs adjusted, IMO.
I use the same formula to set the jig for short cables as I do for long one-cam bowstrings.

One possible reason the above may not work out is jig flex. Assuming a jig flexes inward "x" distance during layup, a very short string will end up shorter by percentage of the initial post setting than a string that's 2 or 4 times longer, because the jig flex is still "x". IMO, experienced string makers shouldn't be adjusting post settings by "y" when string length is greater than some pre-determined length, because strings don't suddenly stretch/shrink more at some pre-determined length. Figure out a formula that's correct for the material, strand count, and twist rate, and use it for all lengths.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

automan26 said:


> Go to post 6530, page 262
> I threw together an idea for a fellow ATer. He built it and said it worked fine.
> 
> Automan


Automan, thanks for that link to the post. A lot of great information in this thread 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Do most right handed dominant string builders have the stretcher assembly at the right hand side or left hand side of the uni-strut? 


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Do most right handed dominant string builders have the stretcher assembly at the right hand side or left hand side of the uni-strut?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine is on the left currently but it doesn't matter either way.


----------



## Bow Rider

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Do most right handed dominant string builders have the stretcher assembly at the right hand side or left hand side of the uni-strut?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have mine on the right. Seems natural to twist and stretch with the right hand. Oddly, when I make recurve strings, I tend to make the top on the left. When I make compound strings, the top is on the right. Compound control cables, the inside is to the left and the outside is to the right, regardless of up or down. But with split busses, the split is always to the left due to the tensioner on the right. I don't think any of this matters, though.


----------



## Bow Rider

Finally got to making strings for my Chill R. I had been putting this off due to removing cams to install yolks. Not as difficult as imagined. I built them to factory specs despite reading that Mathews specs are often off. Not in this case. Came out perfectly. Only shot two arrows from it as weather here was turning. Had the sight's top pin set for 10 yards with limbs backed out to 40# for the girlfriend to try out. First arrow a little high. Moved the peep down a little and bam, spot on. Pretty happy. 

Things I learned from this build:
Posts on Mathews cams are way bigger than Prime or Elite posts. Learned that the hard way. Doh!
Orange resin from orange serving gets all over the server. 
Burnish only the areas you plan to serve and leave the rest alone. Only burnish unserved areas after all is done and has had ample time to relax, then just lightly at low tension (less than 100#) if at all.

The orange ring on the sight always bothered me, not anymore.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

I want to make sure I am looking at this right. Serving specs for a GT-500 with Rev cams 

For the string arrow pointing to right. Is the left hand side the bottom cam end? 











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## Bow Rider

Stouff, it looks that way. Don't know the bow, but 2" serving area would be string stop and 4" serving area would be the center. So left appears to be the bottom.


----------



## cro hunter

Hi.. Need some information about prime bow strings.. Bought Prime ion recently and want make complete new set of strings, cable and yokes.. How i see yokes is mutch thinner.. How many strands you put on the yokes?


----------



## nestly

I posted my initial observations comparing Bloodline VEC99 to BCY 452X (natural/low wax) for anyone interested.

Both strings are currently on my bank of air stretchers and I'll post more data on stretch/creep during an extended test period.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5687021


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## Bow Rider

cro hunter said:


> Hi.. Need some information about prime bow strings.. Bought Prime ion recently and want make complete new set of strings, cable and yokes.. How i see yokes is mutch thinner.. How many strands you put on the yokes?


I asked the same question back in October. Most felt that 2/3rds the normal strand count is good, so I did that with excellent results.


----------



## nestly

I haven't done many Primes, but I determined that .080 was the max finished/served diameter that would sit the whole way down in the cam grooves. That ended up being 14 strands for 452X.


----------



## cro hunter

Thanks.. Anyone have the formula for prime ion bow?


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## Stouff_PAhunter

So I am really struggling with my end servings near the posts. I know it’s probably a learning thing and with practice it will get better, but is there any good videos out there to watch? 


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## nestly

Serving toward the post, or away from the post? I would "prefer" to start at the posts and serve toward the middle as would allow me to finish by backserving, but the transition from the end loops always causes me trouble that I don't have when serving toward the posts and the existing end serving helps keep the serving tight and smooth as it walks up onto the end loops.


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## automan26

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> So I am really struggling with my end servings near the posts. I know it’s probably a learning thing and with practice it will get better, but is there any good videos out there to watch?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://youtu.be/vQRLFTlxQHM

Here is one that's not too bad. It starts a tad later in the process than I would have liked, but it does show the process quite well. 

Automan


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## mattafliving

https://youtu.be/DYVjI0DaODM


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## mattafliving

Sorry about the camera work in mine. But you get the idea. 


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## Karynejennings

Awesome post!


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Serving towards the posts

I know it's a learning curve. I am extremely hard on myself for some personal reasons. Even though I know it's not good for me because of some personal issues I have over ome in the past 2 years, but I am. Thankful for today and glad to be enjoying this sport again though 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


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## nestly

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Serving towards the posts
> 
> I know it's a learning curve. I am extremely hard on myself for some personal reasons. Even though I know it's not good for me because of some personal issues I have over ome in the past 2 years, but I





mattafliving said:


> https://youtu.be/DYVjI0DaODM


My finishing process is similar to Matts.


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## mattafliving

I have a video of how I do it on a serving machine, the only major difference is how fast it all happens. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nestly

Yeah, one of these days I'm gonna put a foot pedal on my home made power server... and then I'll really be able to do some damage. lol


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## mattafliving

nestly said:


> Yeah, one of these days I'm gonna put a foot pedal on my home made power server... and then I'll really be able to do some damage. lol


What’s the speed on yours? When you go to add a pedal let me know.









Double foot pedal with two positions. It’s a game changer! 


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## Dustoff

nestly said:


> Yeah, one of these days I'm gonna put a foot pedal on my home made power server... and then I'll really be able to do some damage. lol


I wired in a sewing machine pedal into mine. Works good.


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## nestly

I had a motor mounted, but it was underpowered and made it difficult to flip from serving jig to server/stretcher, so I removed it and just run it with a battery powered drill now for simplicity. I don't usually go any faster than about 600rpm, which is fast enough to keep me from getting bored. hahaha


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## Bow Rider

Can't say I'm at the point where I can spend the $ for a power server. (Maybe if it becomes a commercially viable hobby) Have been thinking about stretchers, though, so I can work on something while other parts are stretching.


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## nestly

My power server is home built... probably ~$200 in it. I'd just about rather have my fingernails pulled out than spin a serving tool around a bowstring for more than about 15 seconds. I make hundreds of strings per year, but I would only make 3 if I had not made that couple hundred dollar investment.. those 3 would be for myself. Anyone/everyone else could go pound sand, I don't have a single friend I'd run a 36" One-cam serving for by hand... lol.


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## nestly

I made a 4 part video series of how I do end loops, secure string tag ends, twist, and start and finish end loops and center servings. If anyone takes the time to watch, I'd appreciate feedback on the video and also my build process. ( hope they don't get removed due to the backround music)


Part1 End Loop Serving and securing string tags 
Part2 Twisting and End Servings
Part3 Checking Serving Jig Tension and End Serving
Part4 Applying Center Serving


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## nestly

part4 re-upped

Part4 Applying Center Serving


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## Macwas

wicked post thanks


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## s.ga.bowhunter

Great video. I picked up a few tricks. Thanks


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## bowbrothersmdb

Thanks Nestly! Great videos! I too learnt stuff.


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## FlyingWatchmake

Thanks Nestly, some good stuff in there, including the first time I’ve seen someone video doing end servings :-D ... much simpler than I thought they’d be (I overcomplicated them in my head), but I’ll likely stick to tag-ends for now though  

Tom


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## Stouff_PAhunter

What strand count are most using for X99 when building a string and using .018 powergrip for a standard bohning / Easton / gold tip nock fit?

What strand count are you the. Using for cables? 


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## FlyingWatchmake

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> What strand count are most using for X99 when building a string and using .018 powergrip for a standard bohning / Easton / gold tip nock fit?
> 
> What strand count are you the. Using for cables?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For non-white, 28 with 018 powergrip for beiter hunter nocks,
30 for white.. same for cables

T


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## Stouff_PAhunter

FlyingWatchmake said:


> For non-white, 28 with 018 powergrip for beiter hunter nocks,
> 30 for white.. same for cables
> 
> T


Are beiter hunter nocks a different nock fit than the standard nocks that come on arrows? 


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## nestly

I had an inquiry about the bank of string stretchers I have which may be visible in the videos. All my equipment is home built, mostly by the seat of my pants, but I was able to find a few part numbers from my orders. Beyond that, I just fabricated it all on the fly, so I don't have detailed drawings (at least not annotated and dimensioned drawing to provide).

(click to enlarge images)


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## mattafliving

nestly said:


> I had an inquiry about the bank of string stretchers I have which may be visible in the videos. All my equipment is home built, mostly by the seat of my pants, but I was able to find a few part numbers from my orders. Beyond that, I just fabricated it all on the fly, so I don't have detailed drawings (at least not annotated and dimensioned drawing to provide).
> 
> (click to enlarge images)












I have the BAP stretchers, very similar to what you have going. I run my stretchers off of a manifold though. 



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## FlyingWatchmake

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Are beiter hunter nocks a different nock fit than the standard nocks that come on arrows?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Different manufacturers use slightly different nock throat sizes, Easton large groove G-nocks are slightly different from Beiter, as Beiter nocks tend to be commonly used where I make my strings for, I use it as my default, and if anyone asks for something different I get them to supply a nock, or they get to re-serve the centre section to fit as they desire :-D 

I considered getting a few of each nock for reference, but I’d be up for a few hundred $$$ just in case... 

T


----------



## nestly

mattafliving said:


> I have the BAP stretchers, very similar to what you have going. I run my stretchers off of a manifold though.


Mine is also manifolded, I can run them "wide open" with a master regulator so they all have the same PSI/tension, or I can regulate the PSI/tension of each individually.

(pic below was taken before I installed individual slide valves on each)


----------



## mattafliving

nestly said:


> Mine is also manifolded, I can run them "wide open" with a master regulator so they all have the same PSI/tension, or I can regulate the PSI/tension of each individually.
> 
> (pic below was taken before I installed individual slide valves on each)


Aww ok. I’m working on something for stretchers like our setups that should actually reduce stretch time down to 1/5 of a normal stretch. 


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## automan26

Currently, I am in the process of giving my PowerPoint a major facelift, but that is a work in progress. I spent most of last week putting together a six-part video series showing the entire El-Cheap-O build in great detail. I inserted the six links into the Tall Boy section of the Fabrication topic. I think the links are down around frame 42. If you are looking into building a jig, you will find these six video links invaluable. If you are interested, open the Dropbox link in my signature and it will take you to the PowerPoint. Dropbox is weird...sometimes it works online and sometimes you need to download it. Some phones will accept the download and some will not. Computers should have no problem. As I was writing the post I decided that it would be much easier to just copy and paste the links, so here they are.

https://youtu.be/88LFz4B5p3U
https://youtu.be/vgiruKc1lkk
https://youtu.be/RRbeweePXN8
https://youtu.be/DgsQUual9dE
https://youtu.be/hYE7XmzhZ3E

Automan


----------



## automan26

Sorry, I totally forgot the last of the six videos.
https://youtu.be/3GVg8xTZgws

(My OFS is flaring up again.....*O*ld *F*art *S*yndrome)

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Sorry, I totally forgot the last of the six videos.
> https://youtu.be/3GVg8xTZgws
> 
> (My OFS is flaring up again.....*O*ld *F*art *S*yndrome)
> 
> Automan


I tried to reply to your PM but it says that your inbox is full.


----------



## automan26

I just cleared a bunch so you can try again


Automan


----------



## mattafliving

https://youtu.be/e4JS0G6_kkU


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## automan26

That's a nice video and one very clean end loop and end serving.

Automan


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

So I have a 4 post / 3 post setup I picked up here on AT. It uses a porch swing spring as the stretcher spring. I like the setup because I like the looked of serves end loops. Just what I like so that’s how I want to build them. 

I’d like to pick up a 2nd piece of strut and make a separate stretcher / twister so I can be stretching and building at the same time. So here is my question, is there a simple DIY stretcher / twister that anyone has made that I can twist the string / cable and then apply the tension for stretching? On that note I am nowhere near having machining abilities/ capabilities to manufacture something elaborate. 


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## automan26

Go back one page to post 7070 and 7071. This will make you ane awesome stretcher/jig.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> So I have a 4 post / 3 post setup I picked up here on AT. It uses a porch swing spring as the stretcher spring. I like the setup because I like the looked of serves end loops. Just what I like so that’s how I want to build them.
> 
> I’d like to pick up a 2nd piece of strut and make a separate stretcher / twister so I can be stretching and building at the same time. So here is my question, is there a simple DIY stretcher / twister that anyone has made that I can twist the string / cable and then apply the tension for stretching? On that note I am nowhere near having machining abilities/ capabilities to manufacture something elaborate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This thread if full of them, including the first post. Automan's "El-Cheapo" jig is perfectly adequate for that job as well. Just smash two strut corner brackets together with some bolts, put a threaded rod or hook through them and tension with the nut on the rod. Doesn't get much easier than that.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Huntinsker said:


> This thread if full of them, including the first post. Automan's "El-Cheapo" jig is perfectly adequate for that job as well. Just smash two strut corner brackets together with some bolts, put a threaded rod or hook through them and tension with the nut on the rod. Doesn't get much easier than that.


Thanks huntinsker...my thoughts were some corner brackets and some threaded rod. If I am not planning on doing any measuring in them the 1/4" diameter isn't needed correct? 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Thanks huntinsker...my thoughts were some corner brackets and some threaded rod. If I am not planning on doing any measuring in them the 1/4" diameter isn't needed correct?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


Correct.


----------



## b0w_bender

automan26 said:


> Currently, I am in the process of giving my PowerPoint a major facelift, but that is a work in progress. I spent most of last week putting together a six-part video series showing the entire El-Cheap-O build in great detail. I inserted the six links into the Tall Boy section of the Fabrication topic. I think the links are down around frame 42. If you are looking into building a jig, you will find these six video links invaluable. If you are interested, open the Dropbox link in my signature and it will take you to the PowerPoint. Dropbox is weird...sometimes it works online and sometimes you need to download it. Some phones will accept the download and some will not. Computers should have no problem. As I was writing the post I decided that it would be much easier to just copy and paste the links, so here they are.
> 
> Video 1 https://youtu.be/88LFz4B5p3U
> Video 2 https://youtu.be/vgiruKc1lkk
> Video 3 https://youtu.be/RRbeweePXN8
> Video 4 https://youtu.be/DgsQUual9dE
> Video 5 https://youtu.be/hYE7XmzhZ3E
> Video 6 https://youtu.be/3GVg8xTZgws
> 
> Automan


Hey Automan thanks for posting up those videos nice work, (i Haven't gotten through all of them yet but I will) You'll want to post all the links in the description of each video so people can more easily find the full series Parts 1 - 6
You are far more likely to get people watching the full series if you make it easy to find them


----------



## automan26

ThanX... I will make an effort to get that done.

Automan


----------



## patches2565

So. Finished my strings for my pse and was having the hardest time understanding why I had to press the crap out of my bow to get the string on. Long story short the 57.37 string is supposed to be 59.37. Pretty awesome. Really chapped me to throw away some of my best work but oh well. 

Got the new one stretching.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## deerocks254

another summer project added to the books.


----------



## olliedog

Happy 4th string builders! I've got a question for you all today. So, yesterday morning I got up at the normal time, put the coffee on, let the dogs out, etc. Then I thought - I can run down to the basement and stretch a string that I laid up the night before. Just enough time to stretch while I have breakfast and take the dogs to the park before work. ....

Fast forward to 5 pm when on my way home from work when I realized, crap, I forgot to take the string off the stretcher. It had been on there almost 12 hours! Seemed fine so I twisted it up and served it. Needed a few extra twists (2 or 3).

Any reason to be concerned about using this string? My guess is that it'll be rock solid stable. Just never stretched anything so long. 

Chris

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

olliedog said:


> Happy 4th string builders! I've got a question for you all today. So, yesterday morning I got up at the normal time, put the coffee on, let the dogs out, etc. Then I thought - I can run down to the basement and stretch a string that I laid up the night before. Just enough time to stretch while I have breakfast and take the dogs to the park before work. ....
> 
> Fast forward to 5 pm when on my way home from work when I realized, crap, I forgot to take the string off the stretcher. It had been on there almost 12 hours! Seemed fine so I twisted it up and served it. Needed a few extra twists (2 or 3).
> 
> Any reason to be concerned about using this string? My guess is that it'll be rock solid stable. Just never stretched anything so long.
> 
> Chris
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Shouldn't be a problem. I've never stretched that much before twisting but I have after for sure. If your tag ends didn't slip, you should be good.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

olliedog said:


> Happy 4th string builders! I've got a question for you all today. So, yesterday morning I got up at the normal time, put the coffee on, let the dogs out, etc. Then I thought - I can run down to the basement and stretch a string that I laid up the night before. Just enough time to stretch while I have breakfast and take the dogs to the park before work. ....
> 
> Fast forward to 5 pm when on my way home from work when I realized, crap, I forgot to take the string off the stretcher. It had been on there almost 12 hours! Seemed fine so I twisted it up and served it. Needed a few extra twists (2 or 3).
> 
> Any reason to be concerned about using this string? My guess is that it'll be rock solid stable. Just never stretched anything so long.
> 
> Chris
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Shouldn’t be an issue... some string brands use “stretched for at least 24 hours” as their selling point ;-) 

I usually just leave them on the stretcher long enough to lay up another 2 strings/cables... but if I have one on the stretcher when I finish the session, it just stays there till I come back... record is about a week... (it was cold in there!)

T


----------



## olliedog

Thanks guys. Good to know.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## sposters

finally found some time to put together a jig


----------



## sposters

tag end servings on first string were a little rough, found a couple little burrs next to the posts


----------



## sposters

think i figured it out a little better on the cables


----------



## sposters

Many thanks to Huntinsker, automan26, and everyone else who has posted info on this thread


----------



## Huntinsker

sposters said:


> Many thanks to Huntinsker, automan26, and everyone else who has posted info on this thread


The jig and your first pieces look great. Well done!


----------



## sposters

Huntinsker said:


> The jig and your first pieces look great. Well done!


Thank you, I really enjoyed the process.

Another question, I chose not to close the end loops with the tag ends letting the serving keep them closed after twisting. How far down the string do you run the tag end serving? I'm about a half inch past the point where the loop closes, would it make for a better transition if I only wrapped the tag ends 1/8th of an inch or so past where the serving will end? There is a bit of a bump where the two sides start to twist as round bundles.

Hopefully my question makes sense.


----------



## Huntinsker

sposters said:


> Thank you, I really enjoyed the process.
> 
> Another question, I chose not to close the end loops with the tag ends letting the serving keep them closed after twisting. How far down the string do you run the tag end serving? I'm about a half inch past the point where the loop closes, would it make for a better transition if I only wrapped the tag ends 1/8th of an inch or so past where the serving will end? There is a bit of a bump where the two sides start to twist as round bundles.
> 
> Hopefully my question makes sense.


You don't need a whole lot covered by the end serving but you don't want the tag ends to come undone either. Cover one side by 1/4" and the other by 1/8" and that should be plenty. It'll allow a step up for the first side and then another step up for the second, hopefully leaving a nice smooth transition. If I don't bring the loop together with a tag end, for whatever reason, I make sure to keep the tension on the stretcher high until after the loop has started to come together for a bit so that the two sides don't twist around one another under the serving. Then I'll reduce tension to bring the loop together closer to the post.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Once you finish serving a set. I finished my last cable tonight around 7pm, can I install the set tonight or should I let it sit until tomorrow morning? I remember reading in the beginning of the thread to let it sit to settle to final size. Is a few hours long enough or should I let it go until tomorrow? I built with Bloodline 99 for reference. 


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## automan26

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Once you finish serving a set. I finished my last cable tonight around 7pm, can I install the set tonight or should I let it sit until tomorrow morning? I remember reading in the beginning of the thread to let it sit to settle to final size. Is a few hours long enough or should I let it go until tomorrow? I built with Bloodline 99 for reference.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Let it set and rest overnight. I have seen nasty peep rotation in strings that were not given proper testing time. It would also be a good idea to give your final measurement one last check tomorrow. I have had strings shrink a bit overnight. 

Automan


----------



## NoviceAddicted

*Pro Comp Elite-XL Brass Speed Nocks Numbers and locations*

Hello. I'm looking to get a good starting point for number of speed nocks and locations for PCE-XL'S. I don't have a Chrono and for Spiral-x cams on one bow and GTX cams on another. Thanks!


----------



## automan26

*Major Overhaul to My PowerPoint Tutorial*

For the past few days I have been working very hard to update and overhaul my El-Cheap-O Dropbox PowerPoint tutorial. The parts, fabrication and operation sections have been totally redone and I have added a handful of video links to make building and operating the jig a lot clearer and easier to understand and follow. Most of the pics have also been updated.

There are still sections of the tutorial that look much the same, but most of it has entirely changed.

This tutorial will be a continual work in progress and there are still some things I want to do over, but the presentation is much improved. I downloaded it to my phone, but I do not have the full version of PowerPoint on my phone so navigation sucked. Download the PowerPoint to a computer that has Microsoft Office and it will work fine. There is a link to Dropbox in my signature. I have also included the link below. (I hope it works)

If you are thinking about building your own jig, or if you are looking for some string building instruction and videos, this tutorial should be a great help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1tc6j5m71pshla/El-Cheap-O 5.0.ppt?dl=0

Automan


----------



## SamT

Automan, thank you for all of your hard work with the tutorial slideshow and videos. I know this can be very time consuming. Thanks.

PS. You might have to consider changing your handle to: AutomanProductions! LOL

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## automan26

SamT said:


> Automan, thank you for all of your hard work with the tutorial slideshow and videos. I know this can be very time consuming. Thanks.
> 
> PS. You might have to consider changing your handle to: AutomanProductions! LOL
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Here's something a bit comical about all the videos and PowerPoints I do; believe it or not, I am physically hard-wired to do these things. I have a moderate case Tourette Syndrome. A typical TS personality has, among other things, a couple of interesting symptoms that can be quite useful if channeled in the proper direction. Individuals with TS tend to be highly creative coupled with an extra dose of OCD. I have learned to take my creativity, plug in my OCD, become fixated on a project then stand back and watch it go. Once I get rolling on videos and PowerPoints I can't stop. This works out great!!!! I get stuck on doing something I love and others benefit from my fixation.---Win/Win. I have something else ready and waiting and when I get everything lined up, I'll let the TS kick in and take off on another video project.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

NoviceAddicted said:


> Hello. I'm looking to get a good starting point for number of speed nocks and locations for PCE-XL'S. I don't have a Chrono and for Spiral-x cams on one bow and GTX cams on another. Thanks!


I don't believe they came with them from the factory if you're looking for factory locations. Any locations would be trial and error and would also depend on the cam sizes.


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## Martin Chemnitz

Wonderful tutorial, thanks for the hard work in putting this up.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Just finished a set up in VEC99, and I did something I have never asked about before. Before I twisted I put some tags between my strands close to where the serving would be and when I served I pulled my serving thread through the string with the tags. Was that a mistake or will it be ok. I just thought it would help with the serving staying where I wanted it when I started my servings

Maybe a lot of you do that, but it just occurred to me that it could be a good idea. Seemed to help 


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## nestly

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Just finished a set up in VEC99, and I did something I have never asked about before. Before I twisted I put some tags between my strands close to where the serving would be and when I served I pulled my serving thread through the string with the tags. Was that a mistake or will it be ok. I just thought it would help with the serving staying where I wanted it when I started my servings
> 
> Maybe a lot of you do that, but it just occurred to me that it could be a good idea. Seemed to help


Probably not hurting anything, but I don't think you're gaining anything either. Once you figure out how to start/stop servings, it's quicker, easier, and just as secure not going "through" the bundle


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## Stouff_PAhunter

nestly said:


> Probably not hurting anything, but I don't think you're gaining anything either. Once you figure out how to start/stop servings, it's quicker, easier, and just as secure not going "through" the bundle


Thanks nestly. I actually start and finish servings like the YouTube video by WheeliePete. For some reason it just occurred to me that maybe I wasn’t doing it right so I decided to just go through the string. But good to know it isn’t hurting anything, which I didn’t figure it was. 


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Since I am actually enjoying making strings I decided to break down and just purchase some Beiters. I bought the heavy and the standard, but the standard I bought as the kit through Lancaster. Are the extra tool that come with the kit worthwhile? 

Also does anyone use the Baker end loop ruler? My posts are around 9” outside to outside. Would I be able to use the Baker end loop ruler? 


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Probably doesn’t look the greatest with everything twisted (still trying to figure out how to keep this from happening)

But here is a set I just built out of VEC99 
Purple and Emerald Green for the cables with teal serving
Natural string with OD green serving

All end loops served with Teal 2X serving

I’m doing all solid colors as I’m working out my formulas and build process. Every time I try a 2 color set I get major twist after serving my end loops so my 2 color twist looks awful. I’m hoping the beiters help me get more consistent serving tension to help with this 











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## automan26

Without a doubt you have served something backwards. This video should help.

https://youtu.be/QshMqF06CmM

Automan


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## nestly

automan26 said:


> Without a doubt you have served something backwards.....


Agree... unless you're serving way too tight or way too loose for the tension you have on the string while serving.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

automan26 said:


> Without a doubt you have served something backwards. This video should help.
> 
> https://youtu.be/QshMqF06CmM
> 
> Automan





nestly said:


> Agree... unless you're serving way too tight or way too loose for the tension you have on the string while serving.




I am not going to disagree with either of you. My jig is tensioned by a 300 lb porch swing spring. I set that up on my left hand side. When I twist the string I do spin it clockwise. (I just did my twisting motion as I was writing this reply.). So my stationary post while serving is at my right hand and I serve towards it. My serving process is starting with the jig on top and serving over the top of the string pushing it over to the bottom, or pulling it over the top. The the motion of pushing pushing a log laying on the ground away from you, if that helps. Am I serving backwards? 


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## deerbum

Serving left to right, the jig will pass over the top towards you, right to left it will pass over away from you.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

So after watching automan’s video I did indeed serve it the wrong way. Do I just need to remove the serving, restretch at 100 lbs to check length and then reserve? Meaning no harm to the string set from serving backwards correct? 

Good thing I have a vacation day tomorrow 


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## deerbum

Shouldn't need to re measure, just serve away.


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## b0w_bender

agreed


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## patches2565

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> So after watching automan’s video I did indeed serve it the wrong way. Do I just need to remove the serving, restretch at 100 lbs to check length and then reserve? Meaning no harm to the string set from serving backwards correct?
> 
> Good thing I have a vacation day tomorrow
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like they said it's not necessary to re measure but doesnt hurt.

After I watched his video I immediately grabbed my bow and took the serving off hahaha I remeasure just to ease my OCD. 

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## Stouff_PAhunter

patches2565 said:


> Like they said it's not necessary to re measure but doesnt hurt.
> 
> After I watched his video I immediately grabbed my bow and took the serving off hahaha I remeasure just to ease my OCD.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


lol. I don’t have the inside space to have my jig set up so it sits outside under my roof over hang until I am ready to use it. It’s currently 86 degrees already today. So once my wife leaves for work I’ll bring the jig setup up onto the porch in the shade and get to serving 


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## Huntinsker

So I got a PM about center serving and specifically about a process that crossbow guys have been using to try and tighten the serving after the fact. A lot of crossbow string builders twist to length, take out several twists, serve the center serving and then put those twists back in after getting the center serving laid out. The perceived logic is that decreasing twists will shrink the bundle diameter slightly so that the serving goes on a smaller bundle. Then, adding the twist back in will increase the bundle size essentially pushing the bundle tighter into the serving effectively making the serving tighter. The problem is that adding a bunch of twists actually acts to loosen the serving. Here's a quick and dirty video to show why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAozRoPf_ZI


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> So I got a PM about center serving and specifically about a process that crossbow guys have been using to try and tighten the serving after the fact. A lot of crossbow string builders twist to length, take out several twists, serve the center serving and then put those twists back in after getting the center serving laid out. The perceived logic is that decreasing twists will shrink the bundle diameter slightly so that the serving goes on a smaller bundle. Then, adding the twist back in will increase the bundle size essentially pushing the bundle tighter into the serving effectively making the serving tighter. The problem is that adding a bunch of twists actually acts to loosen the serving. Here's a quick and dirty video to show why.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAozRoPf_ZI


Haha... i've been meaning to do a demo like that for a quite a while because it drives me crazy when people say you should only add twists, never remove them, because it can loosen servings. Your example demonstrates why that's not necessarily true. However, it's not quite that simple. I did the math once, and very large servings will in fact "loosen" when adding twists to a string, but very small servings will "tighten" when adding twists. It all depends on how many wraps (of serving) per inch there are. You are simulating large diameter serving with the wide spacings, but if you did that same test with .007 or .008 serving without any space between wraps, you'll find they will tighten when adding twists. As I recall, the "magic" number is right around .015 where servings neither loosen, nor tighten when adding/removing twists.

With specific regard to crossbows, I agree with you because they generally have large diameter center servings, so adding twists after applying the center is actually loosening the serving.


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## gdubbmx

My first pinstripe.


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## gfwireman

Thank you for the video link


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> So I got a PM about center serving and specifically about a process that crossbow guys have been using to try and tighten the serving after the fact. A lot of crossbow string builders twist to length, take out several twists, serve the center serving and then put those twists back in after getting the center serving laid out. The perceived logic is that decreasing twists will shrink the bundle diameter slightly so that the serving goes on a smaller bundle. Then, adding the twist back in will increase the bundle size essentially pushing the bundle tighter into the serving effectively making the serving tighter. The problem is that adding a bunch of twists actually acts to loosen the serving. Here's a quick and dirty video to show why.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAozRoPf_ZI


Nice video!

Was this more of a “what’s happening here” question or was that person asking trying to do something specific and ran into this?


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## automan26

gdubbmx said:


> My first pinstripe.


Great job!!!! I can't see how anyone could do better.

Automan


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## PowerLineman83

A little clear serving and killer loops for y’all! [emoji6][emoji41]

Keep up the good work everyone!










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## automan26

Those are strings to show off and brag about. What material did you use for the string and cables?

Automan


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## servingspinner

Anybody in here wanting to do crossbows? I got a deal for ya. I bought it a string builder, I don't need this stuff.
5- Force 10 1/4lb. Spools
1 new, the others look to be almost full spools
125$ Shipped
I take PayPal
Dealer cost is $36/ (Cancel if not allowed)









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## PowerLineman83

automan26 said:


> Those are strings to show off and brag about. What material did you use for the string and cables?
> 
> Automan


452x 24 strands all the way around. 2x serving on the string ends and .014” Halo and .009” Powergrip on the cables.


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## Huntinsker

gdubbmx said:


> My first pinstripe.


Looks nice! Good job!


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## Huntinsker

PowerLineman83 said:


> Nice video!
> 
> Was this more of a “what’s happening here” question or was that person asking trying to do something specific and ran into this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Started by a guy from the crossbowtalk side asking me my thoughts on removing twists, serving and then adding the twists back in. I showed the video to him and he and a lot of others over there seemed to learn something. Then following that thread a bit, someone shared a video of the person who started this practice, of removing and then adding twists before and after serving, and the guy is serving the string the exact opposite direction that it "should" be. He twists his strings CCW and serves CW, following the direction of the fibers and not the direction he twisted. In that case, removing twists and then adding them back in may actually tighten the serving.


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> Started by a guy from the crossbowtalk side asking me my thoughts on removing twists, serving and then adding the twists back in. I showed the video to him and he and a lot of others over there seemed to learn something. Then following that thread a bit, someone shared a video of the person who started this practice, of removing and then adding twists before and after serving, and the guy is serving the string the exact opposite direction that it "should" be. He twists his strings CCW and serves CW, following the direction of the fibers and not the direction he twisted. In that case, removing twists and then adding them back in may actually tighten the serving.


I could see that. Darn crossbows anyhow!! [emoji1787]

They’re money makers though. I used to build and sell a lot of crossbow strings. Darn things eat em up. That being said they’re not like a vertical bow. They’re meant to zero, then only hunt with them. They’re not meant for target practice and thousands of shots. I mean, you can, but then your strings become your “consumable” in that equation.


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## gdubbmx

automan26 said:


> gdubbmx said:
> 
> 
> 
> My first pinstripe.
> 
> 
> 
> Great job!!!! I can't see how anyone could do better.
> 
> Automan
Click to expand...




Huntinsker said:


> gdubbmx said:
> 
> 
> 
> My first pinstripe.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks nice! Good job!
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. I owe a bunch of credit to both of you for putting up this thread and sharing your knowledge. That was built on an el cheapo jig btw lol.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

PowerLineman83 said:


> 452x 24 strands all the way around. 2x serving on the string ends and .014” Halo and .009” Powergrip on the cables.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the .009 power grip used for on cables? 


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> What is the .009 power grip used for on cables?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not PowerLineman83 but if I had to make an educated guess, I'd say for the cable ends where they go around the cams. In his picture he used 24 strands of flo yellow 452x so that'll finish kind of fat. Using the .009 Pwergrip will keep the finished diameter small enough to comfortably fit the cam tracks and Powergrip resists separation pretty well so it's great for cable ends.


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## PowerLineman83

Huntinsker said:


> I'm not PowerLineman83 but if I had to make an educated guess, I'd say for the cable ends where they go around the cams. In his picture he used 24 strands of flo yellow 452x so that'll finish kind of fat. Using the .009 Pwergrip will keep the finished diameter small enough to comfortably fit the cam tracks and Powergrip resists separation pretty well so it's great for cable ends.


You’re close... and this may be what you meant! [emoji1787]

On the cables I use it on the let out side of the cable(short serving). Take up side(long serving) I use .014” Halo. 

24 strands of flo yellow finished at .103” with .014” Halo.


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## mattafliving

more Bloodline!


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## Stouff_PAhunter

I’m going to build a string set for my father in laws Mathews Drenalin. How long are served end loops to be on a Mathews bow? 


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## rivalstrings

Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I’m going to build a string set for my father in laws Mathews Drenalin. How long are served end loops to be on a Mathews bow?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mathews single cams from that era had kind of large string posts. I'd make the loops 3/4" for ease of installation and tweaking. How long the section of loop serving is depends on how much over lap with your end serving you want. If you want a 3/4" loop you'll need a minimum of 1.5" (1.5/2 = .75") but that won't leave any room for overlap so for 3/4" loops, 1 3/4- 1 7/8 would be how much I serve. If you like a little more overlap, go 2" and you'll have plenty of overlap.


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## levi0099

Cool


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Huntinsker said:


> Mathews single cams from that era had kind of large string posts. I'd make the loops 3/4" for ease of installation and tweaking. How long the section of loop serving is depends on how much over lap with your end serving you want. If you want a 3/4" loop you'll need a minimum of 1.5" (1.5/2 = .75") but that won't leave any room for overlap so for 3/4" loops, 1 3/4- 1 7/8 would be how much I serve. If you like a little more overlap, go 2" and you'll have plenty of overlap.


Thanks huntinsker. My success so far has been with single color strings / cables. When I have attempted 2 color strings with doing served ends I always get horrible pre-twist in my sets. Because I know I have too much tension on my serving tool while serving end loops. My 2 color strings when i twist look awful. So I just stuck with single color strings and low serving tension on my serving tool for my own sets. But with lowering g my serving tool tension the “pre-twist” disappeared. So for this drenalin set I’m making for my father in law I’m going to attempt a 2 color again. 


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Thanks huntinsker. My success so far has been with single color strings / cables. When I have attempted 2 color strings with doing served ends I always get horrible pre-twist in my sets. Because I know I have too much tension on my serving tool while serving end loops. My 2 color strings when i twist look awful. So I just stuck with single color strings and low serving tension on my serving tool for my own sets. But with lowering g my serving tool tension the “pre-twist” disappeared. So for this drenalin set I’m making for my father in law I’m going to attempt a 2 color again.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's been the biggest reason I haven't done more served loops. The second is that I haven't done enough to nail down my formula so I just keep doing tag ends to speed the process haha. We'll all get there eventually!


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Anyone have any 014 powergrip perhaps in red that is maybe good enough for this be more string set? I’d like to try serving a set with the end servings being .014 powergrip 


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## PowerLineman83

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Anyone have any 014 powergrip perhaps in red that is maybe good enough for this be more string set? I’d like to try serving a set with the end servings being .014 powergrip
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I might have some. I can check when I get home.

Keep in mind Powergrip doesn’t flatten out... it will finish larger than say Halo in .014”


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## Stouff_PAhunter

So that is why I see people referring to using .009 diameter then...i guess i look for some of that instead.

Thanks for the insight powerlineman 

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## PowerLineman83

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> So that is why I see people referring to using .009 diameter then...i guess i look for some of that instead.
> 
> Thanks for the insight powerlineman
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


You can use .014”, just bear in mind that it finishes larger. Some bows it doesn’t matter. Some are very finicky about finished diameter.

I do have some red if you’d like it.










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## AR.Smitty

That's a great idea. I'm surprised I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Yellowhorse6

Definitely following this!


----------



## Fiferguy

So I've made several sets of strings with a 2 post jig, but I wanted to try serving the end loops with serving instead of tag ends. I was getting some peep rotation, and I think I was unintentionally putting extra tension into the strands when I was doing the tag end servings.

So I got a Baker fixed 4 post set, and used his spreadsheet to figure the post measurement. Layout was great, serving went fine. Transferred over to the 2 post stretcher, twisted per the spreadsheet, stretched @ 300 lbs for about 4 hours. Relaxed and let it sit while I had to work today. Came home, stretched to 100 lbs, and measured. It was 3/16" short.

Thoughts? I double checked all the math, and all the measurements, and everything looks right. I'm stretching some more right now--maybe I didn't let it stretch long enough.


----------



## Thestudent

Fiferguy said:


> So I've made several sets of strings with a 2 post jig, but I wanted to try serving the end loops with serving instead of tag ends. I was getting some peep rotation, and I think I was unintentionally putting extra tension into the strands when I was doing the tag end servings.
> 
> So I got a Baker fixed 4 post set, and used his spreadsheet to figure the post measurement. Layout was great, serving went fine. Transferred over to the 2 post stretcher, twisted per the spreadsheet, stretched @ 300 lbs for about 4 hours. Relaxed and let it sit while I had to work today. Came home, stretched to 100 lbs, and measured. It was 3/16" short.
> 
> Thoughts? I double checked all the math, and all the measurements, and everything looks right. I'm stretching some more right now--maybe I didn't let it stretch long enough.


It happens just take a couple of twists out and it will just fine. Any formula is a guesstimate anyway due to the variations in every builders style.


----------



## automan26

Fiferguy said:


> So I've made several sets of strings with a 2 post jig, but I wanted to try serving the end loops with serving instead of tag ends. I was getting some peep rotation, and I think I was unintentionally putting extra tension into the strands when I was doing the tag end servings.
> 
> So I got a Baker fixed 4 post set, and used his spreadsheet to figure the post measurement. Layout was great, serving went fine. Transferred over to the 2 post stretcher, twisted per the spreadsheet, stretched @ 300 lbs for about 4 hours. Relaxed and let it sit while I had to work today. Came home, stretched to 100 lbs, and measured. It was 3/16" short.
> 
> Thoughts? I double checked all the math, and all the measurements, and everything looks right. I'm stretching some more right now--maybe I didn't let it stretch long enough.


Spreadsheets do not guarantee that you will be spot-on, they will get you ballpark close and often you must tweak things a bit to get the string to spec. How long is your string and how many twists did you put in it?

Automan


----------



## Fiferguy

I know the spreadsheets are just guestimates, but the formulas have always been within 1/16" on the finished string. I untwisted 6 twists and that seems like a lot when it was only twisted 26 times to begin with.

The numbers I was getting were:

Desired length: 39.38"
4 Post Measurement: 31.925"
Twists: 26
Actual Length Produced: 39.187"

I'm just trying to figure out where to adjust the formula to get a little closer before I make the rest of the strings I need to make. Do I need to add 1/8" to all the settings? Or is it a linear increase--3/16" short at 39 inches, 1/4" short at 42, etc.?


----------



## nestly

Well the 3/16 could be how you're measuring, (ie center to center vs outside to outside), or you could be overly tight/flexing the jig during layup, or your formula could be off. If you build a longer string and it also ends up 3/16' short, it's either how you're measuring, or you're flexing the jig inward too much during layup. If the longer string doesn't also end up 3/16" short, then the formula you are using is not correct for your process.


----------



## PowerLineman83

Fiferguy said:


> I know the spreadsheets are just guestimates, but the formulas have always been within 1/16" on the finished string. I untwisted 6 twists and that seems like a lot when it was only twisted 26 times to begin with.
> 
> The numbers I was getting were:
> 
> Desired length: 39.38"
> 4 Post Measurement: 31.925"
> Twists: 26
> Actual Length Produced: 39.187"
> 
> I'm just trying to figure out where to adjust the formula to get a little closer before I make the rest of the strings I need to make. Do I need to add 1/8" to all the settings? Or is it a linear increase--3/16" short at 39 inches, 1/4" short at 42, etc.?


You’re over thinking this IMHO. Pick a variable and adjust it, see how you like the result.

I would bump your length multiplier a touch to keep the same amount of twists.

I actually have three formulas depending on the length of a piece. Binary/hybrid/dual cam cables, binary/hybrid/dual cam shoot string and solo cam shoot strings.

Don’t get too wrapped up in this. Make an adjustment and move on.

I hope this helps!


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## automan26

What material are you using? I know that when I first started using Fury my strings all came out 1/4" short. Other materials may act in much the same way.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Fiferguy said:


> I know the spreadsheets are just guestimates, but the formulas have always been within 1/16" on the finished string. I untwisted 6 twists and that seems like a lot when it was only twisted 26 times to begin with.
> 
> The numbers I was getting were:
> 
> Desired length: 39.38"
> 4 Post Measurement: 31.925"
> Twists: 26
> Actual Length Produced: 39.187"
> 
> I'm just trying to figure out where to adjust the formula to get a little closer before I make the rest of the strings I need to make. Do I need to add 1/8" to all the settings? Or is it a linear increase--3/16" short at 39 inches, 1/4" short at 42, etc.?


When new builders start, we recommend to build a 30, 60 and 90" string to see how they come out for length and then that gives them an idea how they need to adjust their formula. A new jig and process will behave differently so it wouldn't be a bad idea to do the same as a new builder.


----------



## automan26

I was looking at the starting date for this thread and discovered that Wednesday this thread will be 6 years old. Six non-stop years of helping archers get into string building, many of whom never dreamed they would have ever become builders before stumbling across this thread. It might make a fun BD party if those who got their start here would post up so some of the fence-sitters can get that final nudge to jump in and join the fun.

Automan


----------



## patches2565

Got my start with a huge nudge from automan. I havent looked back and have even helped out others.









Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## PowerLineman83

patches2565 said:


> Got my start with a huge nudge from automan. I havent looked back and have even helped out others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Nice loop! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NoviceAddicted

Huntinsker said:


> I don't believe they came with them from the factory if you're looking for factory locations. Any locations would be trial and error and would also depend on the cam sizes.


Thanks Huntinsker. Sorry just was going through posts and saw reply.


----------



## grimmsterdad

automan26 said:


> I was looking at the starting date for this thread and discovered that Wednesday this thread will be 6 years old. Six non-stop years of helping archers get into string building, many of whom never dreamed they would have ever become builders before stumbling across this thread. It might make a fun BD party if those who got their start here would post up so some of the fence-sitters can get that final nudge to jump in and join the fun.
> 
> Automan


Yes and we thank you very much!


----------



## 21nwingate

looks like it takes a while but is worth giving it a try


----------



## patches2565

21nwingate said:


> looks like it takes a while but is worth giving it a try


Not really. When you get the process down I'm usually installing on the 3rd day maybe 4 if the kids dont agree

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----------



## PowerLineman83

patches2565 said:


> Not really. When you get the process down I'm usually installing on the 3rd day maybe 4 if the kids dont agree
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


You got that right! Funny how the little critters can affect your timeline! 

God bless my NW Spinner... I sure miss my Super Server, but the old wooden wheel works wonders 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Irish Sitka

All the way over here across the pond in Ireland, Automan26 gave me the nudge as well, and I have not looked back!
Thank you sir, you have saved me a considerable amount of money. I have six compound bows?
I would say to anyone a bit nervous about giving it a shot?
Get stuck in, in a short time you will have more $$'s in your pocket and the satisfaction of making your own string sets?


----------



## patches2565

PowerLineman83 said:


> You got that right! Funny how the little critters can affect your timeline!
> 
> God bless my NW Spinner... I sure miss my Super Server, but the old wooden wheel works wonders
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It blew me away the time saved with that little tool. It's one of those things I wish I would have invented

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## lab32

nestly said:


> Haha... i've been meaning to do a demo like that for a quite a while because it drives me crazy when people say you should only add twists, never remove them, because it can loosen servings. Your example demonstrates why that's not necessarily true. However, it's not quite that simple. I did the math once, and very large servings will in fact "loosen" when adding twists to a string, but very small servings will "tighten" when adding twists. It all depends on how many wraps (of serving) per inch there are. You are simulating large diameter serving with the wide spacings, but if you did that same test with .007 or .008 serving without any space between wraps, you'll find they will tighten when adding twists. As I recall, the "magic" number is right around .015 where servings neither loosen, nor tighten when adding/removing twists.
> 
> With specific regard to crossbows, I agree with you because they generally have large diameter center servings, so adding twists after applying the center is actually loosening the serving.


Thank you for your comment. I used to think that servind would only weaken when adding twists. But after your message I made a calculation for myself: it depends on twistrate, string thickness, serving diameter and how much is serving prone to flattening. Math says, in most cases, end serving will tighten when adding twists. Сentral can deviate in both directions.


----------



## b0w_bender

PowerLineman83 said:


> You got that right! Funny how the little critters can affect your timeline!
> 
> God bless my NW Spinner... I sure miss my Super Server, but the old wooden wheel works wonders





patches2565 said:


> It blew me away the time saved with that little tool. It's one of those things I wish I would have invented


First time I've seen this thread off the first page so as a bump... Thanks for the kind words about the NWSpinner.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

I am building a set for my father in laws Drenalin. I know I could use halo for the cable servings, but is halo needed for the cable servings on an older Mathews bow? Also what is everyone using for those long servings going through the roller guards? 


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----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I am building a set for my father in laws Drenalin. I know I could use halo for the cable servings, but is halo needed for the cable servings on an older Mathews bow? Also what is everyone using for those long servings going through the roller guards?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Need" is a bit subjective. Do you need it to last longer or do you want to build or at least re-serve sooner? I personally use some sort of braided serving for all cable ends because they take a lot of abuse and the braids hold up better. I also like a braid through a roller guard because again, they take a lot of abuse. There's typically a lot of pressure and side load on the cable so having a small, tough serving is ideal there.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Huntinsker said:


> "Need" is a bit subjective. Do you need it to last longer or do you want to build or at least re-serve sooner? I personally use some sort of braided serving for all cable ends because they take a lot of abuse and the braids hold up better. I also like a braid through a roller guard because again, they take a lot of abuse. There's typically a lot of pressure and side load on the cable so having a small, tough serving is ideal there.


Any downfall to using .009 powergrip for those areas? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## servingspinner

I know this isn't a sell page so delete if you want, but I thought I offer to the new guys first.
$65 shipped to your door
4 total BAP tools









Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Any downfall to using .009 powergrip for those areas?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No reason I can think of for why it wouldn't work well.


----------



## ravenslayer

Awesome. Thank you for the detailed pictures


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

Bump up with a picture of my last set... 

Halon X comp - royal blue/electric red x99 - white 3d serving with baby oil to clarify it ;-)


----------



## patches2565

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Bump up with a picture of my last set...
> 
> Halon X comp - royal blue/electric red x99 - white 3d serving with baby oil to clarify it ;-)


Very. Very sharp

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Dustoff

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Bump up with a picture of my last set...
> 
> Halon X comp - royal blue/electric red x99 - white 3d serving with baby oil to clarify it ;-)


Which clears up better, .014" white Halo or white 3D?


----------



## PowerLineman83

Dustoff said:


> Which clears up better, .014" white Halo or white 3D?


I get better results from Halo.

For clear, I use Halo and Powergrip on cables and 2x on my shooting strings.

I will say, Powergrip is a challenge to get to look decent. But it stays put so well. I deal with it in the event I use it in white.


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## FlyingWatchmake

Dustoff said:


> Which clears up better, .014" white Halo or white 3D?


I’d definitely say halo clears better, but a) I have a 1lb spool of white 3d, and b) halo is bloody expensive over here (Australia)... 

I did do one set of strings that I did half the serving in white halo, and half in white 3d and from a couple of metres away there wasn’t any visual difference..

T


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

patches2565 said:


> Very. Very sharp
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Thanks  

T


----------



## automan26

I'm interested in hearing from those of you who have been using Bloodline. How's it working out? How does it compare to other materials you have used in the past?

Automan


----------



## PowerLineman83

automan26 said:


> I'm interested in hearing from those of you who have been using Bloodline. How's it working out? How does it compare to other materials you have used in the past?
> 
> Automan


Lays up incredibly nice. I have some Vec99 because I’m more of a blended material kinda guy. 

I treat it just like 452x and have had no issues. It’s a more refined material compared to 452x which is to be expected with a higher grade Dyneema in it.

I’m interested is BCY 454. I haven’t tried it yet but I would like to.


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## Dustoff

automan26 said:


> I'm interested in hearing from those of you who have been using Bloodline. How's it working out? How does it compare to other materials you have used in the past?
> 
> Automan


I've been using their VEC99 and I really like it. I treat it 452X when setting my post length and I've had no issues. I've put around 2500 shots on it and no fuzzing. The string itself is a little slick and I've had a little main serving separation. I didnt use liquid lok and it was pretty much an experimental string that I want planning on keeping on but it's still there. The green color has a ton of dry on it and when serving it build up kind of like wax does. This is my go to material now and I've made 3 sets out of it. I'm chomping at the bit for the grey color to come out. I'll clarify that none of the other strings have any serving separation on them. I've been doing tag ends and it lays up very nicely. 6 out of 5 stars.


----------



## automan26

Do the strands of VEC99 stay together when the string is removed from the jig? I had some Bloodline 99 that gave me problems with strand separation after the string was removed from my jig, but I will be the first to blame that issue on me and not the material. 

Automan


----------



## Dustoff

automan26 said:


> Do the strands of VEC99 stay together when the string is removed from the jig? I had some Bloodline 99 that gave me problems with strand separation after the string was removed from my jig, but I will be the first to blame that issue on me and not the material.
> 
> Automan


Its definitely an issue with the VEC99 as well. Not sure how I'm going to get around it. Maybe next time I'll leave some string material in as separators so after installation I can make the bundle all nice. Maybe a light coat of wax. Maybe Matt can chime in with a suggestion? And he could also tell us when the new grey color is going to be in.


----------



## nestly

Dustoff said:


> Its definitely an issue with the VEC99 as well. Not sure how I'm going to get around it. Maybe next time I'll leave some string material in as separators so after installation I can make the bundle all nice. Maybe Matt can chime in with a suggestion? And he could also tell us when the new grey color is going to be in.


Not not my experience at all... the VEC99 I have "sticks" together as a bundle better than any string material I've ever seen or used. I did not expect it, but that's been my observation.


----------



## automan26

I wonder if different colors bond together differently. Perhaps one color of dye is a bit stickier than another color.

Automan


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## bowbrothersmdb

automan26 said:


> I'm interested in hearing from those of you who have been using Bloodline. How's it working out? How does it compare to other materials you have used in the past?
> 
> Automan


I've been using VEC-99 for the last 5 string sets. I was using BCY-X.
Here's a pic of one set. Green/violet string, red/violet cables (not my colour choices!) Please excuse quality, my phone is old!














I have found that it requires careful layup, especially when using tag end serving. Because it's so slippery,getting an imbalance between colours is possible when starting the tag end. I imagine served ends do not have this problem. 
I have had to adjust formula because invariably I'm laying up tighter to keep the strands from sagging.
I don't get any addition length after serving. With waxed material I would expect a 2mm (+-1/16") squeeze.
Starting twisting from a reduced weight and pulling tees about 2/3rds of twists results in a smooth string that requires no burnishing.
As you mentioned the tags end serving are really smart!

Pros:
No Wax! jig, floor, serving jigs and hands stay clean.
No burnishing, clean shiny strings.
Cons:
Needs careful layup and initial tag end start.
Smaller range of colours.
Separating golf tees fall out when twisting!


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## lab32

In my experience red, black and blue of vec99 crumbles to strands easily. Also I couldn`t remove wax from them like there`s no wax at all. Green color holds bundle well and gives a little wax. Strand diameter is like bcy-x, and it`s very, very slippery. I`m not sure it would hold serving on aggressive cams.


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## Gene1

Great Thread. Thanks


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## BWBOW

The el cheapo can still build a good string









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## automan26

BWBOW said:


> The el cheapo can still build a good string
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


It's evident that you really know how to run your El-Cheap-O. Great job. I like the way you used the serving as the color portion of the strings. All too often we build strings that look awesome, then hide all that beautiful work under all that black serving. You did just the opposite and it worked well.

Automan


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## Dustoff

lab32 said:


> In my experience red, black and blue of vec99 crumbles to strands easily. Also I couldn`t remove wax from them like there`s no wax at all. Green color holds bundle well and gives a little wax. Strand diameter is like bcy-x, and it`s very, very slippery. I`m not sure it would hold serving on aggressive cams.


Well there isn't any wax. That's one their advertising points.


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## lab32

Dustoff said:


> Well there isn't any wax. That's one their advertising points.


Well not for every spool of Vec99 it is true. Just like BCY  (Although recent Mercury is good) For myself I prefer waxy material. I like to work as a sculptor. low wax has its advantages: wound, pulled, wrapped and done. But I think everyone would like material that has the same amount of wax from spool to spool.


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## mattafliving

Below are a few pictures of the recent sets I have built. I’ve been working with the is material for a some time now. It does have a learning curve, the benefits of the coating are worth the time it takes to use. Now pin stipes can be a pain do to the coating being slick, but they are very possible achieve. As for a comment about not being able to remove wax. There is zero wax on bloodline fiber material. It’s just isn’t a thing. 

And as a note, silver, brown, and dessert sand are now available in Vec99 on Bloodline99. The colors should be available on BL99 by next weekend. 











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## Dustoff

Is there a trick to getting the strands of VEC99 to stick together after taking it off the jig?


----------



## mshockey

First I would like to give Huntinsker and Automan26 a great big thank you for thier work and efforts on this thread. Personally I feel this is one of the most informative and beneficial threads on AT. We all need strings! My question is, is there any way a closed sticky thread could be formed with the basic how to information, formula's, and beneficial tips that have been accumulated along the way for quick referance. I have read things hear that I thought I had committed to memory only to realize a month later that I let it slip away. I don't build strings that often. Going back and trying to search through 6 years of information with over 7000 posts is next to impossible.

Thanks again guys and keep up the good work, it is appreciated.


----------



## mattafliving

Dustoff said:


> Is there a trick to getting the strands of VEC99 to stick together after taking it off the jig?


With Vec99 you can set the bundle together after twisting by wrapping a section of 3D serving around the bundle once and running it down the string. Kinda like burnishing but you don’t need to do it multiple times. The Vectran in the Vec99 is what helps it stick together better than the BL99. BL99 can be tricky to get it to not “bird cage” when not under tension, but most times once it goes on the bow the bundle will settle the way you had it before. 


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## lab32

When I say "wax" I mean binder. Of course I don't know actual chemical composition. You can call it another word. 

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## bobrel

Hoping to change the subject to BCY 454.. Anyone building with it? 

I tried and am failing.. 
i normally use trophy or 452X. My strings dont usually rotate when finished. tried BCY 454 using the same build process and have seen crazy string rotation after serving one or both string end(s).

layed up three strings, some with more some with less twists, same thing.. Tried halo and 3d serving. usually set my cavalier about high 6 to 7#tension. use squeeze clamps and serve under 400# tension so no movement when serving. Not sure what i can do differently. None of these strings is usable. driving me nuts.

Any experiences or suggestions are welcomed

thanks


Bob


----------



## mattafliving

bobrel said:


> Hoping to change the subject to BCY 454.. Anyone building with it?
> 
> I tried and am failing..
> i normally use trophy or 452X. My strings dont usually rotate when finished. tried BCY 454 using the same build process and have seen crazy string rotation after serving one or both string end(s).
> 
> layed up three strings, some with more some with less twists, same thing.. Tried halo and 3d serving. usually set my cavalier about high 6 to 7#tension. use squeeze clamps and serve under 400# tension so no movement when serving. Not sure what i can do differently. None of these strings is usable. driving me nuts.
> 
> Any experiences or suggestions are welcomed
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> Bob


Is it a single color string or multiple color?


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## bobrel

single color - white.. the white has color pigment and seems a little wax so some stripping is needed. i use a strand of natural trophy to go over each side of the string prior to twisting, to get some of it out.


----------



## mattafliving

bobrel said:


> single color - white.. the white has color pigment and seems a little wax so some stripping is needed. i use a strand of natural trophy to go over each side of the string prior to twisting, to get some of it out.


May be as simple as you got a bad spool of material. Is there any noticeable difference in the individual strand size throughout? 


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## bobrel

Is there any noticeable difference in the individual strand size throughout? 

Not that i can tell. Strands seem uniform.


----------



## automan26

bobrel said:


> Hoping to change the subject to BCY 454.. Anyone building with it?
> 
> I tried and am failing..
> i normally use trophy or 452X. My strings dont usually rotate when finished. tried BCY 454 using the same build process and have seen crazy string rotation after serving one or both string end(s).
> 
> layed up three strings, some with more some with less twists, same thing.. Tried halo and 3d serving. usually set my cavalier about high 6 to 7#tension. use squeeze clamps and serve under 400# tension so no movement when serving. Not sure what i can do differently. None of these strings is usable. driving me nuts.
> 
> Any experiences or suggestions are welcomed
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> Bob


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QshMqF06CmM

Have you seen this video? It may help. It really sounds like you are serving something in the wrong direction.

Automan


----------



## bobrel

Yes, i have and all is good with BCY trophy, 452x and 8190f. questioning if special handling is needed for 454. 
thanks
bob


----------



## lab32

bobrel said:


> Yes, i have and all is good with BCY trophy, 452x and 8190f. questioning if special handling is needed for 454.
> thanks
> bob


I didn`t use 454, but encoutered same problem with x99 at high twist rate. Finished string wants to untwist 3-5 full turns. I did 5-7 twists more than needed, then served. When string untwisted after that, it was quite stable.


----------



## Huntinsker

mshockey said:


> First I would like to give Huntinsker and Automan26 a great big thank you for thier work and efforts on this thread. Personally I feel this is one of the most informative and beneficial threads on AT. We all need strings! My question is, is there any way a closed sticky thread could be formed with the basic how to information, formula's, and beneficial tips that have been accumulated along the way for quick referance. I have read things hear that I thought I had committed to memory only to realize a month later that I let it slip away. I don't build strings that often. Going back and trying to search through 6 years of information with over 7000 posts is next to impossible.
> 
> Thanks again guys and keep up the good work, it is appreciated.


I'm glad you're finding the thread useful. I've thought about this several times over the years as this thread grew larger and larger. The main problem I see is deciding what to include and what not to and who decides what they are. Some things that I feel are essential to the process aren't essentials to others. We all have different styles and different things we do in each of our own ways and there are several people in the thread that have become somewhat of "authorities" on the subject. Since the thread is basically a crowd sourced wealth of information, it'd be hard to whittle it down into one document. On the other hand, I or anyone else, could write what we think is a good general guideline with some "pro tips" along the way and present that to a Mod to see if they'd make that a sticky thread. Maybe I'll compile that and post it here for "ratification" so to speak, and then present it to a mod after others had a chance to check it over.


----------



## Huntinsker

bobrel said:


> Yes, i have and all is good with BCY trophy, 452x and 8190f. questioning if special handling is needed for 454.
> thanks
> bob


The only real difference between 452x/Trophy and 454 is the grade of Dyneema. Maybe the higher grade of Dyneema, which is actually 2 generations better, is "stiff" enough to flex your jig more during layout and causing uneven strand tension where the lower grade in 452x/Trophy has enough "give" in it to not cause that? It would be a long shot but I really can't think of a more plausible explanation.


----------



## lab32

Rampage doesn't cause rotation when twisted less than 1.05 tw/in and most spools of mercury too. I think problem is how vectran and new binder composition work together.

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----------



## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> Rampage doesn't cause rotation when twisted less than 1.05 tw/in and most spools of mercury too. I think problem is how vectran and new binder composition work together.
> 
> Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


I personally don't think it has anything to do with the material composition. There are people building with all available string materials who are not having problems. I've never encountered a material that caused peep rotation. It's always a string build issue or a peep installation issue.


----------



## lab32

Huntinsker said:


> I personally don't think it has anything to do with the material composition. There are people building with all available string materials who are not having problems. I've never encountered a material that caused peep rotation. It's always a string build issue or a peep installation issue.


You know better. I've built with 452x, bcyx, mercury, x99, rampage and vec99 with zero peep rotation. But these materials are different and require slightly different building process. Imo

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----------



## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> You know better. I've built with 452x, bcyx, mercury, x99, rampage and vec99 with zero peep rotation. But these materials are different and require slightly different building process. Imo
> 
> Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


You definitely have to learn a new material, that's for sure. I've never had a material that caused a problem like peep rotation unless it wasn't actually the material I thought it was. Mislabeled product can cause that problem, probably why mattafliving asked him if it was a single or multi-color string. Since it's a one color string from the same spool, that rules out the possibility of it being two different materials and must be a build issue.


----------



## lab32

Huntinsker said:


> You definitely have to learn a new material, that's for sure. I've never had a material that caused a problem like peep rotation unless it wasn't actually the material I thought it was. Mislabeled product can cause that problem, probably why mattafliving asked him if it was a single or multi-color string. Since it's a one color string from the same spool, that rules out the possibility of it being two different materials and must be a build issue.


I`ll try to explain again. Recently I finished a set of Rampage, two colors - black & flo.orange. These colors differ in thickness, so, relatively speaking, these are two different materials. No rotation, half-twist to top string loop to align peep and ready to go. String: 32 strands (16+16), 1 twist per inch. Cables: 36 strands, 0.85 per inch. I always make cables less twisted.








This morning I finished two single color black cables of x99 for KAP Maxtry. Unfortunately, not photographed. 28 strands, 0.85 tw/in, stretched overnight at 350. Everything as usual. As expected, when I released tension and took one loop from the jig, it turned 3 full turns in my hand. That`s normal for my process and x99, I take it into account, so it does not lead to peep rotation when speaking about shooting string. By the way if I held the loop tightly (not allowing to rotate) when tension released, I would have bumps.
But in place of x99 Rampage wouldn`t have turned 3 full turns. Maybe half turn.

It may be related to Bobrel`s problem or maybe not. But roughly say there are two poles of string material. One is silky soft and smooth, another is more like metal shavings. And something is in the middle.


----------



## Gene1

How does one know how many strands they need?

It’s for a Hoyt Turbohawk if that makes a difference.

I picked up 2 colors from BCY X99 and halo serving.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> How does one know how many strands they need?
> 
> It’s for a Hoyt Turbohawk if that makes a difference.
> 
> I picked up 2 colors from BCY X99 and halo serving.


BCY lists recommended strand counts for their materials on their website. Beyond that, knowing what good finished diameters should be and then experimenting with strand counts of different materials is how you do it. Luckily, there are a lot of string builders and that info has already been figured out. I've seen 26 for flo colors and 28-30 for natural and other colors depending on the bow.


----------



## Gene1

I feel so stupid. I did see that recommendation and forgot where I read that. I guess I was too busy trying to choose the string colors.

Thanks!


----------



## Jonesy0000

A guy at my archery club has made his own string using braided fishing line. Have you seen this material used? Is it practical? Or safe? I'm not sure what the breaking strain of a single bowstring strand is. But I know braided fishing line can be up to like 65lb


----------



## Huntinsker

Jonesy0000 said:


> A guy at my archery club has made his own string using braided fishing line. Have you seen this material used? Is it practical? Or safe? I'm not sure what the breaking strain of a single bowstring strand is. But I know braided fishing line can be up to like 65lb


Is he using the fishing line as the string material or the serving? I'd guess that he's using it as serving in which case it's totally fine as long as it performs. I use fishing line for certain serving applications and we've had a lot of discussion on it in this thread over the years. A lot of people use it with good success.


----------



## Jonesy0000

Huntinsker said:


> Is he using the fishing line as the string material or the serving? I'd guess that he's using it as serving in which case it's totally fine as long as it performs. I use fishing line for certain serving applications and we've had a lot of discussion on it in this thread over the years. A lot of people use it with good success.


He uses it for both serving and main line. He had a higher poundage main line and a lighter line for serving.


----------



## Huntinsker

Jonesy0000 said:


> He uses it for both serving and main line. He had a higher poundage main line and a lighter line for serving.


I know BCY experimented with braided string material but found it wasn't as good or practical as what was already being used. I suppose it would work if you can get the strand counts up but I'd never feel totally comfortable with it personally. Have you tried order your material from the states and have it shipped over? You might be able to find some cheaper that way though I'm not sure what all import taxes/duties you'd be hit with.


----------



## Jonesy0000

Do you know the breaking strain of a single bowstring strand?


----------



## gdubbmx

Bought a NW spinner. Wish I had done it a year ago lol. What a difference!! Love this thing, and for the price I might buy another just to not have to change servers. GREAT product!!!


----------



## Huntinsker

Jonesy0000 said:


> Do you know the breaking strain of a single bowstring strand?


It's hard to say. I've seen people say that 452x breaks at 70lbs per strand but can't find an actual source. I know that I've stretched a 28 strand string of Fury to at least 600lbs and it was absolutely fine. I know that a lot of braided fishing lines are about .016-.017 for 70lb test so I think you'd be hard pressed to get 24 strands together in a bundle to equal that of 452x.


----------



## mattafliving

The breaking point of a single strand of dyneema sk99 is 138.5 lbs in perfect tension. No stress concentrations like loops bends or knots. Not sure what a blended material would be. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> The breaking point of a single strand of dyneema sk99 is 138.5 lbs in perfect tension. No stress concentrations like loops bends or knots. Not sure what a blended material would be.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm sure that depends on the size of denier though right? Something like 2XSK99 like BCY has out to a couple people, just double the size of Mercury from what I understand, is going to be a higher breaking strength than a smaller fiber of the same material. 

I'd venture a guess to say that a Vectran blended material would break sooner as the Vectran would be the weak portion. Very stiff and low creep but more brittle and easily broken, hence why blends tend to fuzz more.


----------



## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> I'm sure that depends on the size of denier though right? Something like 2XSK99 like BCY has out to a couple people, just double the size of Mercury from what I understand, is going to be a higher breaking strength than a smaller fiber of the same material.
> 
> I'd venture a guess to say that a Vectran blended material would break sooner as the Vectran would be the weak portion. Very stiff and low creep but more brittle and easily broken, hence why blends tend to fuzz more.


Sk99 only comes in one denier, the new product your talking about is just two strands of it twisted together. I believe they did it to reduce time it takes to layup crossbow strings. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> Sk99 only comes in one denier, the new product your talking about is just two strands of it twisted together. I believe they did it to reduce time it takes to layup crossbow strings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gotcha. Makes sense.


----------



## Jonesy0000

Thanks for all the info and the discussion. Looks like I'm just going to have to buy a string and give up on making it myself.


----------



## mattafliving

Jonesy0000 said:


> Thanks for all the info and the discussion. Looks like I'm just going to have to buy a string and give up on making it myself.


You can get a 1/8 spool of bloodline directly from the website for $32, I don’t know what shipping would be on it. After that the only cost factor is what ever your country taxes it with. Don’t give up on it; making your an String is extremely rewarding and gives you so much more knowledge when it comes to your bow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Jonesy0000 said:


> Thanks for all the info and the discussion. Looks like I'm just going to have to buy a string and give up on making it myself.





mattafliving said:


> You can get a 1/8 spool of bloodline directly from the website for $32, I don’t know what shipping would be on it. After that the only cost factor is what ever your country taxes it with. Don’t give up on it; making your an String is extremely rewarding and gives you so much more knowledge when it comes to your bow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I definitely agree. It's worth it if you can source the material. I know buying overseas is often more expensive than buying stateside and then shipping overseas. Even with import taxes it can be cheaper to do it that way if you can stand to wait on the shipping.


----------



## gdubbmx

Jonesy0000 said:


> Thanks for all the info and the discussion. Looks like I'm just going to have to buy a string and give up on making it myself.


Heck I have this bcy 452x I cant see myself using. If you want to pay shipping etc it's yours.


----------



## Jonesy0000

gdubbmx said:


> Heck I have this bcy 452x I cant see myself using. If you want to pay shipping etc it's yours.
> View attachment 6939227


That would be awesome. Can you pm me and we can work it out?


----------



## Jonesy0000

mattafliving said:


> You can get a 1/8 spool of bloodline directly from the website for $32, I don’t know what shipping would be on it. After that the only cost factor is what ever your country taxes it with. Don’t give up on it; making your an String is extremely rewarding and gives you so much more knowledge when it comes to your bow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Even then its still around the same price by the time it lands here.
If I can get some more offers like mgrubbmx's that would be awesome. I'm more than happy to pay postage in a couple of half rolls if people are willing.


----------



## Jonesy0000

gdubbmx said:


> Heck I have this bcy 452x I cant see myself using. If you want to pay shipping etc it's yours.
> View attachment 6939227


If anyone else has some left over colors they don't use or serving, anything to help me get started gdubbmx has suggested getting a care package together to send me. I would really appreciate any help and if you want anything sent in return I'm sure we can work that out too! 

Be positive and pass it on. Love yourself and your family. 

Quest G5 Rogue


----------



## automan26

Jonesy0000,
Did that link I sent you open properly?

Automan


----------



## Kms86

Amazing information, thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## doulos

For those builders who are using served ends. What is your process for building a slit yoke buss cable? I have a couple different processes when using tag ends. And both work well. But I have never done one with a 4 post set up. I just want to learn how to do served ends better.


----------



## Gene1

Anybody using BCY X99? This is my 2nd test piece but this time I actually had a target length of 14”. Measure out and works great. Only problem is when end serving the string flattened out and I’m not liking it. Is that normal and OK? Does the 452X also flattens out? I like the braid serving thread better but will need to make the 4 post jig. The black string frays easy.

Any advise?


----------



## Gene1

Pics of my string jig on my first test piece.


----------



## gdubbmx

Gene1 said:


> Anybody using BCY X99? This is my 2nd test piece but this time I actually had a target length of 14”. Measure out and works great. Only problem is when end serving the string flattened out and I’m not liking it. Is that normal and OK? Does the 452X also flattens out? I like the braid serving thread better but will need to make the 4 post jig. The black string frays easy.
> 
> Any advise?


All my end servings do the same thing. I have been shooting strings that did that for a year or so on my main and backup bows and have seen no issues. I use fury for now, but one of the strings is made from 452x, so yes, it flattens as well. I don't know of any way to stop it personally. Maybe one of the veteran builders has a solution? Anyway best of luck!


----------



## TN ARCHER

Gene1 said:


> Anybody using BCY X99? This is my 2nd test piece but this time I actually had a target length of 14”. Measure out and works great. Only problem is when end serving the string flattened out and I’m not liking it. Is that normal and OK? Does the 452X also flattens out? I like the braid serving thread better but will need to make the 4 post jig. The black string frays easy.
> 
> Any advise?


Just the characteristics of using tag ends to serve loops. One thing I do once I have a couple of wraps and nothing is gonna move is I put a good coat of wax on my tags and the strands where they wrap around the posts. This helps keep the material "lubricated " and it wont "fuzz" as bad, sometimes bot at all!


----------



## Huntinsker

Even served loops will flatten out a little. It doesn't hurt a thing. Any blended string material will fuzz some. Vectran is a "stiff" material in that it has very little creep to it but just like overly hardened steel, it's hard but somewhat fragile and the fibers can fuss pretty quickly from handling. Just part of the game.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> Pics of my string jig on my first test piece.


Looks like a nice setup. If it were me, I'd make sure that I laid out the strings with the air stretcher with the rod all the way in to minimize flex on it. You might have strand tension issues if it's out there that far when laying up.


----------



## Thestudent

Gene1 said:


> Anybody using BCY X99?*** Only problem is when end serving the string flattened out and I’m not liking it.** The black string frays easy.
> 
> Any advise?


I am by no means an expert. I've built a few sets now using x99 only I haven't tried any other material yet mainly because it has worked for me so far. I have found that if I keep rolling the tag end in my fingers in a clockwise rotation working from the string out to the end of the tag. it keeps the individual fibers together.* I'm sure my clockwise rotation has everything to do with my process of laying out the string and this is not definite. You will notice pretty quick if your twisting it the wrong direction because the fibers just want to open up more. I will say I have noticed it to be more of a problem with the flo colors and black than a few of the others I have used


----------



## patches2565

Has anyone made a set for an evolve 35? I'm about to make mine and am wondering the strand count for the yoke. I was gonna go with 12.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Thestudent

patches2565 said:


> Has anyone made a set for an evolve 35? I'm about to make mine and am wondering the strand count for the yoke. I was gonna go with 12.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


With x99 I have been going with 18 strands. It took a few tries to get the diameter down to match the factory yoke


----------



## Gene1

After the first test string, there was play on the string as I was wrapping it. On the second test string I used a bracket to hold back the piston to give it a firm tension on the post. Which was fine. Once the tag ends are done I remove the bracket and move other ends a few inches to allow the piston to pull out so I can then apply air to stretch the strings. It worked great until I think I forgot to push the string back down the base before applying tension and snap the grade 8 bolt. O well live and learn.

The next one I will be drilling all the way down and enlarge the nut on top to a larger diameter to allow shoulder of the bolt to be recess into the nut for better side tension. 

Lucky I had the eye bolt and extra brackets.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> After the first test string, there was play on the string as I was wrapping it. On the second test string I used a bracket to hold back the piston to give it a firm tension on the post. Which was fine. Once the tag ends are done I remove the bracket and move other ends a few inches to allow the piston to pull out so I can then apply air to stretch the strings. It worked great until I think I forgot to push the string back down the base before applying tension and snap the grade 8 bolt. O well live and learn.
> 
> The next one I will be drilling all the way down and enlarge the nut on top to a larger diameter to allow shoulder of the bolt to be recess into the nut for better side tension.
> 
> Lucky I had the eye bolt and extra brackets.


That bracket under the piston on your air stretcher is a good idea. Looks like you can get plenty of pressure out of it if you're snapping bolts!


----------



## Dustoff

Gene1 said:


> After the first test string, there was play on the string as I was wrapping it. On the second test string I used a bracket to hold back the piston to give it a firm tension on the post. Which was fine. Once the tag ends are done I remove the bracket and move other ends a few inches to allow the piston to pull out so I can then apply air to stretch the strings. It worked great until I think I forgot to push the string back down the base before applying tension and snap the grade 8 bolt. O well live and learn.
> 
> The next one I will be drilling all the way down and enlarge the nut on top to a larger diameter to allow shoulder of the bolt to be recess into the nut for better side tension.
> 
> Lucky I had the eye bolt and extra brackets.


Which piston are you using?


----------



## miles220

nice fab work!


----------



## Gene1

Thanks, 

Got the air cylinder and front adapter from Amazon.


----------



## Gene1

Bolt removed and replaced, cut back steel plate and rounded all edges and filed down. Ready to install on full length of kindoff or maybe spray paint it first.


----------



## cmead

Dont know how Ive never seen this thread before but there is some real good info on it!


----------



## jpsissom3204

Gene1 said:


> Bolt removed and replaced, cut back steel plate and rounded all edges and filed down. Ready to install on full length of kindoff or maybe spray paint it first.


So how do you control how much poundage your are stretching the string by? How much psi you send to the piston? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nestly

jpsissom3204 said:


> So how do you control how much poundage your are stretching the string by? How much psi you send to the piston?


Geometry. 

Area = 3.14 x r2. You know the radius/diameter of your air cylinder, so just find the area (of the piston) and multiply it by the air pressure. IOW, for a 2" air cylinder, it's 3.14 x 1, or 3.14 times the air pressure, which would be 3.14lbs at 1PSI, or 314lbs and at 100PSI. You do have to subtract the rod diameter (often 5/8") for a double acting cylinder, (or a single acting when "pulling", and that works out to an area of 2.83, or 283lbs at 100PSI (or 300lbs at 106PSI)


----------



## Gene1

You control the air with a regulator. I tested the jig with a scale to see what pressure will produce at what tension. 

At first I calculated what size diameter piston to be used at what pressure. The larger diameter piston the less pressure will be required to create what tension you want.

With the piston I posted.
85psi will get you 350lb.
24psi will get you 100lbs.


----------



## cro hunter

Guys need best solution on building yoke cable on 4 post jig.. I was looking on you tube but everything is for 2 post.. Thanks


----------



## Gene1

There’s 3 ways to build a yoke cable that I know of. I used a 2 post jig. You can just use 1 post of each of your jigs.

1) Double the length of your yoke cable plus Your calculations for twist plus 1/4” for the turn around for the 3rd loop. After stretching and twisting serve the Y for the yoke end. You only lay half the amount of strands. You will get double once you fold it over.

2) let’s say you have a 24 or 28 string cable. You split the bunch of 12 or 14 strands on the yoke side and serve the end tag with the strands of both colors. The other end has no tag line. You just add the tag line to it and serve that end. Twist your cables and like above you serve the Y. Down side is you only have half the strands on the Each side of the yoke.

3) floating yoke cable. It’s 2 cables. Make a string about 16” if you want the Y on each side about 8”. 
This was the tricky part I encountered. Let’s say yoke cable 34”. 34”-8”(cable you just made) = 26” remaining. Double the length plus 1/4” turn around plus your twist length. you only lay half the amount of strands.
Lay your strands and secured your tag ends on your jig. I applied some tension to equalize those strands. Once done. You need to fold over that to your short string you made and with the short string folded over to your first post, now still holding on to all those insecure strands to the 2nd post which still has the other end of the 52plus inches (of the 26”) to now have the correct length and amount of strands. (Pic shows intersection of both cables. Have not twisted it yet) End serve that end with all 4 tag ends if you used 2 colors. Stretch your strands to equalize them. Twist and serve the single loop.
Some stated shoot the bow serval dozens or so for the yoke cable will float and settle to proper space and serve that float joint to make a fix Y.

If you google how to make split yoke cables you will find a more detail way of building it.


----------



## cro hunter

Thanks


----------



## DKB77

Wow! just WOW!


----------



## cro hunter

How many strings you can make with 700 ft spool.. Approximately?


----------



## nestly

cro hunter said:


> How many strings you can make with 700 ft spool.. Approximately?


Easy math.
Total the length of your strings and cables, then multiply by the number of strands you're going to use and that's now much string material you will need (not counting waste)
Example:
Hoyt RX-3
String = 54.13" + Buss = 32.25" + Control = 33.75" = 120.13" x 24 strands = 2,883", or 240 feet. I'd give myself an extra two feet on each piece so just call it 250 feet of string material for one 30" ATA bow. 
All the material I buy is sold by the weight rather than length, and I usually get 4 to 4-1/2 complete bows out of one 1/8th lb spool.


----------



## cro hunter

nestly said:


> cro hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many strings you can make with 700 ft spool.. Approximately?
> 
> 
> 
> Easy math.
> Total the length of your strings and cables, then multiply by the number of strands you're going to use and that's now much string material you will need (not counting waste)
> Example:
> Hoyt RX-3
> String = 54.13" + Buss = 32.25" + Control = 33.75" = 120.13" x 24 strands = 2,883", or 240 feet. I'd give myself an extra two feet on each piece so just call it 250 feet of string material for one 30" ATA bow.
> All the material I buy is sold by the weight rather than length, and I usually get 4 to 4-1/2 complete bows out of one 1/8th lb spool.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nestly.. I see some material 452x 700 ft spool thats why asking.


----------



## Gene1

Just finished by 2nd set of string last night. Both bows have the same color scheme. Need more spools of string. Lol

Thanks for this DYI section and all that created and help along the way. 
Serving was a pain. Thinking about making the serving setup, but that’s not happening.
You guys are costing me an arm and a leg.


----------



## PowerLineman83

Gene1 said:


> Just finished by 2nd set of string last night. Both bows have the same color scheme. Need more spools of string. Lol
> 
> Thanks for this DYI section and all that created and help along the way.
> Serving was a pain. Thinking about making the serving setup, but that’s not happening.
> You guys are costing me an arm and a leg.


Give the NW Spinner a look. Balance it and you can serve pretty fast. I’ve got mine to where it will serve faster than my Super Server did.

And I have to ask.... what’s with the floating yoke on the bow in the foreground? I haven’t seen one in YEARS.... just curious as it seems most folks went back to static yokes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gene1

That how the original Hoyt yoke cable from 9 years ago. I figure I’m learning how to make strings and made the floating yoke cable. I can aways serve it up to make it a static cable at a later date.

Yeah I saw that NW spinner. Looks good, but the stepping motor setup is so much nicer but not worth it for me. The NW spinner is my next project right after a linear bow press.


----------



## gdubbmx

X2 on the spinner. Love mine!!!


----------



## Ram Raiser

Wow, great info!


----------



## lunghit

Can someone refresh my memory. I’m building a set for my Elite Victory 37 and I believe I remember Elite’s require a certain serving on the strings. I believe Halo .014. I don’t have the bow yet and I want them done when it arrives. Thanks


----------



## PowerLineman83

lunghit said:


> Can someone refresh my memory. I’m building a set for my Elite Victory 37 and I believe I remember Elite’s require a certain serving on the strings. I believe Halo .014. I don’t have the bow yet and I want them done when it arrives. Thanks


.014” Halo will do fine for you. I serve mine TIGHT. I like to end up with .100” finished diameter or less...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

PowerLineman83 said:


> .014” Halo will do fine for you. I serve mine TIGHT. I like to end up with .100” finished diameter or less...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok good to know. I appreciate the info. Thanks


----------



## XTPA

Very nice!!


----------



## lunghit

Here's a tip. Make sure your tackle box is closed before you pick it up.


----------



## gdubbmx

Lol oops


----------



## nestly

Been there.... and it sucks....


----------



## automan26

lunghit said:


> Here's a tip. Make sure your tackle box is closed before you pick it up.


That's a great tip.... I'll have to remember that in the future. I've always had problems with my box falling open and I think your solution is just what I'm looking for. LOL

Automan


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## BIGMACK91

Nice


----------



## lunghit

automan26 said:


> That's a great tip.... I'll have to remember that in the future. I've always had problems with my box falling open and I think your solution is just what I'm looking for. LOL
> 
> Automan


Lol glad I can help!


----------



## rtowle

This is so awesome. Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

Sometimes you get lucky and win this battle. I usually don't but with 22.25" on each end of the same string, I defied the odds and didn't run out!


----------



## Binary cam man

Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## SamT

Huntinsker said:


> Sometimes you get lucky and win this battle. I usually don't but with 22.25" on each end of the same string, I defied the odds and didn't run out!



Sooooo satisfying! 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## nestly

Haha, yeah. It's usually "I think I can make it", followed shortly by "Nope"


----------



## automan26

Yesterday, I picked up my brand new 2020 PSE Supra Focus. I love it, but obviously I decided on the spot that it needed a set of my own strings. The owner of the pro shop just happened to have an almost brand new set of factory strings as, so he loaned them to me so I would have something to use for determining correct serving lengths and locations. I built my string using the factory string as a go-by, then decided to make sure the factory string was set to spec before returning it, so I stretched it out and measured it. Due to the fact that it had been in and out of the package several times previously, it was several twists long, so I twisted it to spec, but found that PSE had added all the twists counterclockwise. That's really no problem. After adding twists I noticed that the string twisted horribly after it was removed from my jig. You guessed it..... PSE twisted it counterclockwise, but served it clockwise. I can understand now why it was brand new, yet had been replaced for some reason. I'll bet someone had a horrible peep rotation problem.

My point here is that not all strings on new bows are twisted clockwise as one might expect, so if you are twisting to adjust the axles or draw length, you might find that all your twisting is simply making the problem worse because you naturally assumed that the factory strings had been twisted clockwise. Also, even the pro builders can screw up sometimes, so we can be easier on ourselves if we pull a bonehead move once in awhile,

Automan


----------



## Gene1

Bad string wax? 
When I got my used Target bow, the strings was not worn. 
I learned and made my strings to replace the strings on my older bow. Since I’m making strings I also made one for the target bow. I’ve been only shooting my target bow since I restring it. The main string had a little fuzz after a while so I waxed all the strings. 

Last night I was looking over the bow and found wax build up on the cable by the cable guide. Upon a closer look under the build up I found a broken strand.

If it was the a bad cable guide won’t it show up on the old strings.

Or did I put bad wax on the strings and cause it to wear out? My old bow bus cable broke strands at the cable guide location also. It’s not a roller guide.

I’m using scorpion wax I purchased about 9 years ago. I’m using a patch of leather I cut off an old couch to rub it in. 

Any ideas?


----------



## Gene1

Made new bus cable last night and I remember how I hate serving the strings. 
Made a spinner tonight .

The heavy serving tool is heavy. Don’t really want to add weights on the opposite side.
Hope it works.


----------



## b0w_bender

Gene1 said:


> Made new bus cable last night and I remember how I hate serving the strings.
> Made a spinner tonight .
> 
> The heavy serving tool is heavy. Don’t really want to add weights on the opposite side.
> Hope it works.


Well done I've been meaning to post a template on my website with a video so people can build their own a lot easier. I want to do a video with the instructions as well. Getting a little burnt out making them to tell you the truth.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> Bad string wax?
> When I got my used Target bow, the strings was not worn.
> I learned and made my strings to replace the strings on my older bow. Since I’m making strings I also made one for the target bow. I’ve been only shooting my target bow since I restring it. The main string had a little fuzz after a while so I waxed all the strings.
> 
> Last night I was looking over the bow and found wax build up on the cable by the cable guide. Upon a closer look under the build up I found a broken strand.
> 
> If it was the a bad cable guide won’t it show up on the old strings.
> 
> Or did I put bad wax on the strings and cause it to wear out? My old bow bus cable broke strands at the cable guide location also. It’s not a roller guide.
> 
> I’m using scorpion wax I purchased about 9 years ago. I’m using a patch of leather I cut off an old couch to rub it in.
> 
> Any ideas?


I doubt it's the wax. Most likely it's the cable guard. Make sure you're routing the cables properly and that there's not a burr on the cable slide.


----------



## Gene1

The serving jig works good. Had to use 2 fingers on the side to keep it stable as it’s being used at med speed. I added a velcro strap to keep the server in the wheel. 

I replaced the guide with a new one. 

The more tag end you make, it’s gets better.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> The serving jig works good. Had to use 2 fingers on the side to keep it stable as it’s being used at med speed. I added a velcro strap to keep the server in the wheel.
> 
> I replaced the guide with a new one.
> 
> The more tag end you make, it’s gets better.


Looks really good. Nice work!


----------



## Gene1

Thanks!

Pic of attached Velcro. Only did 1 side of the server but did front and back of wheel. It was a snug fit already. If your opening is bigger that your server you may need to secure both sides.


----------



## automan26

I just noticed that the Dropbox link in my signature that leads to the El-Cheap-O string jig and string building tutorial had vanished, so I put up a new one. This tutorial works best if it is downloaded to a computer or cell phone. Note: Some phones accept this download and some do not. If downloaded to a phone, some of the internal links may not work, the links to the YouTube videos should still work.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I just noticed that the Dropbox link in my signature that leads to the El-Cheap-O string jig and string building tutorial had vanished, so I put up a new one. This tutorial works best if it is downloaded to a computer or cell phone. Note: Some phones accept this download and some do not. If downloaded to a phone, some of the internal links may not work, the links to the YouTube videos should still work.
> 
> Automan


It may have been the mods. While you're trying to link to something that will help others, the rules don't allow for links in signatures unless you're a sponsor of the site. Kind of a lame rule.


----------



## b0w_bender

Huntinsker said:


> It may have been the mods. While you're trying to link to something that will help others, the rules don't allow for links in signatures unless you're a sponsor of the site. Kind of a lame rule.


Yup almost certainly what happened to it.


----------



## automan26

That sucks. I wasn't aware of that rule. That link has been useful for so many. I'd hate to see it removed after so many years. If it vanishes again I'll know for sure and will have to find another way to help those who are interested in getting into string building. Maybe I'll find the courage to yank it myself. In the meantime, if anyone is interested, download the presentation while you still have the opportunity. 

Automan


----------



## automan26

I PMed the mod. If it got yanked, they should be letting me know soon. If it goes away, I'll post it periodically so it can stay available for those who need it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p20sx0pp7ehj84z/El-Cheap-O 5.1.ppsx?dl=0

Automan


----------



## automan26

I PMed the mod and he told me I can leave the link in my signature. That's good news!!!

Automan


----------



## rapids

I learned to make strings/cables for my compound bow through the posts on this thread......a big thanks to Huntinsker and automan26 for all their time and effort. Since they are the gurus on string making here, I do have a question which I hope they can help me with. I know that you use 100# of tension when measuring string/cable lengths for compound bows. My wife normally shoots a longbow during the summer, but for hunting, uses a crossbow. So the question I have is, since crossbow draw weights are much higher (her’s is 150#), what tension would you use to measure string/cable lengths, the same 100# or more? Sorry for posting this in the compound forum.


----------



## automan26

rapids said:


> I learned to make strings/cables for my compound bow through the posts on this thread......a big thanks to Huntinsker and automan26 for all their time and effort. Since they are the gurus on string making here, I do have a question which I hope they can help me with. I know that you use 100# of tension when measuring string/cable lengths for compound bows. My wife normally shoots a longbow during the summer, but for hunting, uses a crossbow. So the question I have is, since crossbow draw weights are much higher (her’s is 150#), what tension would you use to measure string/cable lengths, the same 100# or more? Sorry for posting this in the compound forum.


Although I am not into Xbows, I don't see why 100# wouldn't do just fine. 100# insures that all the slack is taken out of the string without inducing stretch and that's what you are after. You could even go a bit higher if you like, maybe 125# and you will still be fine. Xbow strings don't have peeps to worry about and getting the DL absolutely, spot-on perfect isn't as critical either.

Automan


----------



## rapids

automan26 said:


> Although I am not into Xbows, I don't see why 100# wouldn't do just fine. 100# insures that all the slack is taken out of the string without inducing stretch and that's what you are after. You could even go a bit higher if you like, maybe 125# and you will still be fine. Xbow strings don't have peeps to worry about and getting the DL absolutely, spot-on perfect isn't as critical either.
> 
> Automan


Thanks for the reply........just wasn’t sure, but that makes sense.


----------



## Mac2118

I don't know if I'm having a brain fart or what.. but I'm hoping someone can help me with an issue I'm having.

I'm working on 2 sets of strings. 1 24 strand of vec-99, and 1 32 strand with mercury. I'm using .014 halo on both (flo green, and also flo yellow). my final serving od is .110. I have 6# of tension on my beiter. Previously over the summer, I made 2 sets of strings using mercury (32 strands) with halo and had .100-.102, which is exactly what I'm aiming for. The strings I made over the summer have a nice "glossy" finish on the serving, but the ones I'm working on now; not so much.. which makes me think about the tension of the jig itself.

I normally serve at 300# with string clamps. I've tried 350# and 400#, and I've tried upping my beiter to 9# of tension and had .106 OD after. Should I increase my serving tension more on the beiter? Or is there something else that I should be looking at?


----------



## Huntinsker

Mac2118 said:


> I don't know if I'm having a brain fart or what.. but I'm hoping someone can help me with an issue I'm having.
> 
> I'm working on 2 sets of strings. 1 24 strand of vec-99, and 1 32 strand with mercury. I'm using .014 halo on both (flo green, and also flo yellow). my final serving od is .110. I have 6# of tension on my beiter. Previously over the summer, I made 2 sets of strings using mercury (32 strands) with halo and had .100-.102, which is exactly what I'm aiming for. The strings I made over the summer have a nice "glossy" finish on the serving, but the ones I'm working on now; not so much.. which makes me think about the tension of the jig itself.
> 
> I normally serve at 300# with string clamps. I've tried 350# and 400#, and I've tried upping my beiter to 9# of tension and had .106 OD after. Should I increase my serving tension more on the beiter? Or is there something else that I should be looking at?


The color of the material plays a big part. This is one reason I really miss Brownell. They seemed to have more consistent wax content and fiber size from color to color. BCY flo colors are noticeably larger than their non-flo colors and this has to be considered when building with them. You either have to strip more wax off or use fewer strands if you're wanting to hit a specific size.


----------



## Mac2118

Thanks for the reply. I did try tightening the beiter and got it down to .106. I also threw together a small 20" strand of black mercury 32 strange with the flo yellow serving and it was coming in at .100 and .101. I'm thinking the flo yellow mercury is just a tad bit thicker than the non flo colors that I have and I'll just have to live with that couple extra thousandths. I don't want to burnish the strands more than I do, they're normally around .086-.088 after I'm done.


----------



## Huntinsker

Mac2118 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I did try tightening the beiter and got it down to .106. I also threw together a small 20" strand of black mercury 32 strange with the flo yellow serving and it was coming in at .100 and .101. I'm thinking the flo yellow mercury is just a tad bit thicker than the non flo colors that I have and I'll just have to live with that couple extra thousandths. I don't want to burnish the strands more than I do, they're normally around .086-.088 after I'm done.


You don't necessarily have to burnish the whole bundle more. Just need to try and "dewax" each color more. Maybe split the color bundle into quarters and dewax half the flo strands at a time, separate them from one another before twisting, so it's not lobes of each color but a more rounded bundle, and then burnish normally.


----------



## Mac2118

I normally have them split into groups of 4, burnish them while stretching, let them relax for 20 min, twist and stretch and burnish the entire bundle while its stretching again. This is my first go around with flo serving, I thought I was doing something wrong. I've always had great results with black.


----------



## Huntinsker

Mac2118 said:


> I normally have them split into groups of 4, burnish them while stretching, let them relax for 20 min, twist and stretch and burnish the entire bundle while its stretching again. This is my first go around with flo serving, I thought I was doing something wrong. I've always had great results with black.


Oh I'm sorry. I misread your post. I thought it was flo colored string material. Maybe it's both flo string and serving material?


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## etrips

Ball park, how much do one of these setups run?


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## Huntinsker

Huntinsker said:


> So I got a PM about center serving and specifically about a process that crossbow guys have been using to try and tighten the serving after the fact. A lot of crossbow string builders twist to length, take out several twists, serve the center serving and then put those twists back in after getting the center serving laid out. The perceived logic is that decreasing twists will shrink the bundle diameter slightly so that the serving goes on a smaller bundle. Then, adding the twist back in will increase the bundle size essentially pushing the bundle tighter into the serving effectively making the serving tighter. The problem is that adding a bunch of twists actually acts to loosen the serving. Here's a quick and dirty video to show why.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAozRoPf_ZI





nestly said:


> Haha... i've been meaning to do a demo like that for a quite a while because it drives me crazy when people say you should only add twists, never remove them, because it can loosen servings. Your example demonstrates why that's not necessarily true. However, it's not quite that simple. I did the math once, and very large servings will in fact "loosen" when adding twists to a string, but very small servings will "tighten" when adding twists. It all depends on how many wraps (of serving) per inch there are. You are simulating large diameter serving with the wide spacings, but if you did that same test with .007 or .008 serving without any space between wraps, you'll find they will tighten when adding twists. As I recall, the "magic" number is right around .015 where servings neither loosen, nor tighten when adding/removing twists.
> 
> With specific regard to crossbows, I agree with you because they generally have large diameter center servings, so adding twists after applying the center is actually loosening the serving.


Hey nestly, how did you go about calculating this? I'm curious how the diameter of the serving would change the outcome. I would assume that different diameters would have the same outcome to varying degrees.


----------



## Huntinsker

Huntinsker said:


> So I got a PM about center serving and specifically about a process that crossbow guys have been using to try and tighten the serving after the fact. A lot of crossbow string builders twist to length, take out several twists, serve the center serving and then put those twists back in after getting the center serving laid out. The perceived logic is that decreasing twists will shrink the bundle diameter slightly so that the serving goes on a smaller bundle. Then, adding the twist back in will increase the bundle size essentially pushing the bundle tighter into the serving effectively making the serving tighter. The problem is that adding a bunch of twists actually acts to loosen the serving. Here's a quick and dirty video to show why.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAozRoPf_ZI





etrips said:


> Ball park, how much do one of these setups run?


Depending on how "fancy" you make it, $70-125 should cover it. That should include the strut if memory serves.


----------



## SamT

Huntinsker said:


> So I got a PM about center serving and specifically about a process that crossbow guys have been using to try and tighten the serving after the fact. A lot of crossbow string builders twist to length, take out several twists, serve the center serving and then put those twists back in after getting the center serving laid out. The perceived logic is that decreasing twists will shrink the bundle diameter slightly so that the serving goes on a smaller bundle. Then, adding the twist back in will increase the bundle size essentially pushing the bundle tighter into the serving effectively making the serving tighter. The problem is that adding a bunch of twists actually acts to loosen the serving. Here's a quick and dirty video to show why.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAozRoPf_ZI


Speaking STRICTLY here for center crossbow serving:

So, would you recommend putting additional twists in (the number of twists I keep hearing is 6 twists) before serving, then removing those twists? 

There is one crossbow string maker that suggests taking 6 twists out, then serving the string opposite of the string twist, then putting the 6 twists back in. (if I got all of this right!!) Since for crossbows there's no issues with peep rotations, what would your and nestly's oppion be for this? How do you think that would work? or not?

Personally, I've never done either one of these methods. I twist, then serve, and I'm done. BUT, I'm always looking for anything that might improve my process in building.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> Speaking STRICTLY here for center crossbow serving:
> 
> So, would you recommend putting additional twists in (the number of twists I keep hearing is 6 twists) before serving, then removing those twists?
> 
> There is one crossbow string maker that suggests taking 6 twists out, then serving the string opposite of the string twist, then putting the 6 twists back in. (if I got all of this right!!) Since for crossbows there's no issues with peep rotations, what would your and nestly's oppion be for this? How do you think that would work? or not?
> 
> Personally, I've never done either one of these methods. I twist, then serve, and I'm done. BUT, I'm always looking for anything that might improve my process in building.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


If a person was to do any untwisting/twisting before the serving, whatever you do, go opposite the serving direction. So if you like serving in the same rotational direction that you twisted the string, add a couple extra and then remove them after serving so that you're twisting against the direction of the serving. If you like to serve with the bobbin going opposite the rotational direction that the string was twisted, I'd add the twists back in after serving. 

In the grand scheme of things though, I don't think 6 twists is enough to make any appreciable difference in a real world application. In string geek theory, you'd want to twist opposite how you serve of you're attempting to tighten the serving.


----------



## cro hunter

Have question.. Is paracord rope 2mm good for d-loop.. Or is strech too much?


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## Huntinsker

cro hunter said:


> Have question.. Is paracord rope 2mm good for d-loop.. Or is strech too much?


That's essentially what BCY #24 loop rope is. Just stretch a length of it before cutting your loop and you should be okay using it. If it doesn't have any wax on it, it wouldn't hurt to add wax to it before tying it on the string though. That'll help the knots get and stay tighter.


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## jtalexander

Lots of good info here thanks for sharing


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## cro hunter

Thanks Huntinsker.. You help as allways!


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## Huntinsker

I saw this morning that this thread is on the 3rd page in the DIY section. I don't think it's ever been that far from the top. I looked at who's bumping the other threads, not that they don't deserve being up top, and it looks like same couple people spamming posts to get their 20. Apparently they think the DIY section is a safe place to put their one word replies and not get deleted.

Anyway, I just put together a couple changes that I've made to my jig/process for another guy and thought I'd post them here as well in case anyone new to the thread might not want to wade through all 7315 posts to find them. 

String clamps
https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=4&p=1068029249#post1068029249 

Thrust bearing addition
https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=28&p=1069751957#post1069751957 

Newest jig modification
https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=267&p=1109874665#post1109874665 

Some Process updates
https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56&p=1071270374#post1071270374 

Process updates that I wish I could put on the first page.

1. Before twisting, don't stretch to 300lbs. I now do 150ish pound for about 5 minutes is all. 

2. For a 2 color string, just use 2 tees to separate the colors for twisting.

3. There's no need to run a piece of string material between the 2 colors on a 2 color string, may still need to chase a pinstripe though.

4. Put in 1/2-2/3 the number of total twists and then pull your golf tees out and finish twisting.

5. Don't burnish up and down 4-5 times. I now go once up and once down. I still get a great finish but without as much work and it reduces the chance of "the bumps" (reading the thread you'll understand what "the bumps" are).

6. You don't actually have to close the loops with the tag ends. Just back serve each side individually and when you twist, the loop will come together. I like to leave the side on the near side of the jig a little longer so it creates a smoother step up onto the loop when you're serving. 

7. Use a piece of 3d serving for pulling your tag end out at the loop. It's stronger than halo of the same size so it won't break.

8. Once you've served up to the loop and want to start closing the loop with the serving, reduce tension on the jig to about 150lbs. This will make the loop serving cleaner, bring the loop closed better and you'l get smaller transitions up the loop.

I'm sure there are other small changes but that should get you going pretty well.


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## gdubbmx

Hmm I've not tried stretching prior to twisting. I'm assuming it helps the bundle to lay more uniformly?


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## Huntinsker

gdubbmx said:


> Hmm I've not tried stretching prior to twisting. I'm assuming it helps the bundle to lay more uniformly?


Just helps to even the tension across the bundle.


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## gdubbmx

Huntinsker said:


> gdubbmx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm I've not tried stretching prior to twisting. I'm assuming it helps the bundle to lay more uniformly?
> 
> 
> 
> Just helps to even the tension across the bundle.
Click to expand...

I see. I'll be trying that soon. Have another set to build in a week or 2. Thank you sir!


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## gberinger

This is great. Thanks for putting this together


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## gdubbmx

I've built a few sets now for different bows and notice on the cable ends, the serving separates almost every time on the sharper bends. I serve with 3d @ 350lbs tension. Will halo grip better or some other material? Am I doing something wrong? Thanks guys.


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## Holmboy11

Great amount of detail, awesome job.


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## patches2565

gdubbmx said:


> I've built a few sets now for different bows and notice on the cable ends, the serving separates almost every time on the sharper bends. I serve with 3d @ 350lbs tension. Will halo grip better or some other material? Am I doing something wrong? Thanks guys.


When you get to the ends try going to 150lbs and finish from there. Helps me get much tighter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## 138104

gdubbmx said:


> I've built a few sets now for different bows and notice on the cable ends, the serving separates almost every time on the sharper bends. I serve with 3d @ 350lbs tension. Will halo grip better or some other material? Am I doing something wrong? Thanks guys.


Couple of thoughts that may or may not help. Watch your loop size. If the loop extends to the bend, it will separate no matter what. Also, make sure your serving tension is high enough. I never measure mine, but made sure my "flag" would turn about half way as I was serving. Hope that makes sense.


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## Huntinsker

gdubbmx said:


> I've built a few sets now for different bows and notice on the cable ends, the serving separates almost every time on the sharper bends. I serve with 3d @ 350lbs tension. Will halo grip better or some other material? Am I doing something wrong? Thanks guys.


I never serve a cable end with 3D for this exact reason. It just doesn't hold up as well as a braided serving. Halo will do better and for the really tough cams, I've found powergrip to do even better than Halo. My wife's single cam Bear Finesse chewed through Halo pretty quickly where the module contacts the cable. Powergrip has held up already twice as long and it's still going. 

Some bows though, you're just going to have some separation. If the bend is tight enough, it'll force the outside of the bend to pull apart a little as the radius is wider on the outside of the bend. You'll have potentially better luck with Halo or powergrip but certain cams are just going to cause some separation. Do like the others have said and watch your loop size and make sure you're not getting the loop extending into the cable track and make sure you're serving those areas good and tight and it'll help. If it's wear areas like over modules, braided serving is always a better choice.


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## gdubbmx

Thank you all for the info. It is indeed on the really tight turns on the outside. I actually had to take a cable set off a bow that I built last year and the inside portion of the turn was fine. No separation at all. It may not even be a big deal, it just looks like crap. I've been shooting my carbon defiant like that for almost a year almost daily and have seen no issues. 

I guess the biggest turn off for me with the halo is its twice what 3d costs, but if I build a couple sets and actually charge for them it may not hurt as bad lol. It's just a feel good thing to build sets for friends and see their faces when they ask how much and I say all good. Thanks again guys, I appreciate it.


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## 138104

Dumb question. Can you tag end serve loops using a 4 post jig? My head says yes, but only ever see videos showing guys serve end loops on a 4 post jig.


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## gdubbmx

Perry24 said:


> Dumb question. Can you tag end serve loops using a 4 post jig? My head says yes, but only ever see videos showing guys serve end loops on a 4 post jig.


There are no dumb questions lol. You just rotate the posts so they are inline with each other. The first jig I built before I built the el cheapo was a 4 post and that's how I did it.


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## 138104

gdubbmx said:


> There are no dumb questions lol. You just rotate the posts so they are inline with each other. The first jig I built before I built the el cheapo was a 4 post and that's how I did it.


Thank you! That actually gave me another idea. I could keep them swung out and lay up both cables at the same time when building for most binary cams. So, build the string first, put it on the stretcher, then use the 4 post to build both cables. Come back, serve the string, and then serve the cables while the string relaxes. I think that would save me time.


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Thank you! That actually gave me another idea. I could keep them swung out and lay up both cables at the same time when building for most binary cams. So, build the string first, put it on the stretcher, then use the 4 post to build both cables. Come back, serve the string, and then serve the cables while the string relaxes. I think that would save me time.


Interesting idea. You'd have to make sure that your posts are pretty rigid so you don't get too much flex but I don't see why it wouldn't work well. Could do buss cables that way to but using a 3 post setup if you could work the math out for length.


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## gdubbmx

Huntinsker said:


> gdubbmx said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've built a few sets now for different bows and notice on the cable ends, the serving separates almost every time on the sharper bends. I serve with 3d @ 350lbs tension. Will halo grip better or some other material? Am I doing something wrong? Thanks guys.
> 
> 
> 
> I never serve a cable end with 3D for this exact reason. It just doesn't hold up as well as a braided serving. Halo will do better and for the really tough cams, I've found powergrip to do even better than Halo. My wife's single cam Bear Finesse chewed through Halo pretty quickly where the module contacts the cable. Powergrip has held up already twice as long and it's still going.
> 
> Some bows though, you're just going to have some separation. If the bend is tight enough, it'll force the outside of the bend to pull apart a little as the radius is wider on the outside of the bend. You'll have potentially better luck with Halo or powergrip but certain cams are just going to cause some separation. Do like the others have said and watch your loop size and make sure you're not getting the loop extending into the cable track and make sure you're serving those areas good and tight and it'll help. If it's wear areas like over modules, braided serving is always a better choice.
Click to expand...

Well I took the plunge and ordered some powergrip. If it stops the separation then it's worth the cost I guess. Thank you sir!!!


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## deerbum

gdubbmx said:


> Well I took the plunge and ordered some powergrip. If it stops the separation then it's worth the cost I guess. Thank you sir!!!


If you like it consider ordering a 1/4# spool from a dealer next time. At the time I purchased mine I figured it held 8 spools of thread costing $9 per spool.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## gdubbmx

deerbum said:


> gdubbmx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I took the plunge and ordered some powergrip. If it stops the separation then it's worth the cost I guess. Thank you sir!!!
> 
> 
> 
> If you like it consider ordering a 1/4# spool from a dealer next time. At the time I purchased mine I figured it held 8 spools of thread costing $9 per spool.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a really great price lol. I'll certainly keep that in mind. I usually order from 60x on ebay. Maybe I'll contact them directly next time. Thanks!!!


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## 138104

What is the current version of the el-cheapo Power Point? I have 3.18, but not sure if it has been updated.


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## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> What is the current version of the el-cheapo Power Point? I have 3.18, but not sure if it has been updated.


Automan posted this 2 pages back. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p20sx0pp7ehj84z/El-Cheap-O 5.1.ppsx?dl=0

Not sure it's any different than what you have but I think he said it's the most recent.


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> Automan posted this 2 pages back. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p20sx0pp7ehj84z/El-Cheap-O 5.1.ppsx?dl=0
> 
> Not sure it's any different than what you have but I think he said it's the most recent.


Thanks.


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## 138104

Has anyone used the OMP Revolution serving jig? Thoughts on it? It looks like a nicer server for the money.


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## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Has anyone used the OMP Revolution serving jig? Thoughts on it? It looks like a nicer server for the money.


I've not used one but it's because I passed on buying them after hearing reports of poor tension control. Stuck with the Beiters and have been plenty happy.


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## Huntinsker

Saw a Brownell add in "Inside Archery" magazine saying they'll have a booth at the ATA show this year. Maybe they're going back into production? I sure hope so. I preferred their products, especially the wax content and consistency from roll to roll and color to color. Their material also just made a nicer looking string.


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> Saw a Brownell add in "Inside Archery" magazine saying they'll have a booth at the ATA show this year. Maybe they're going back into production? I sure hope so. I preferred their products, especially the wax content and consistency from roll to roll and color to color. Their material also just made a nicer looking string.


It would be awesome if they made a comeback. I absolutely love their products. I'm running low on some Fury colors and If I have to start buying BCY materials it's going to get spendy to make the changeover. 

Automan


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## automan26

*A Good Reason to Take Up String Building*

Here's why we build strings. I purchased this Bear Revival way back in September. It was an awesome shooter, but I needed a bow that could go down to 45# and Bear advertised this as a 45#-60# bow. With this model bow, 45# was never going to happen. There's a very, very, very long story about all the problems I had with this bow, but after a few calls to Bear and after building several sets of strings for multiple Revivals I was able to get it down to where I wanted. If this bow had been sold to anyone but a string builder, the poor guy would have been in deep doo-doo!!! I was persistent and after 3 bows and a set of limbs I was able to get the bow I wanted, but I had to do it myself. I now have a bow that shoots like a dream and draws a weight that an old fart like me can shoot, but not without custom threads and custom string and cable lengths. 

If anyone is thinking about jumping in and getting started building strings, string building is a skill that really comes in handy in unexpected ways.

(I'm sorry I can't get this pic rotated properly)


Automan


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## lab32

There`s relatively easy way to reach desirable poundage in a similar sutuation. Measure maximum draw weight (tightened limb bolts), then measure minimum draw weight (unscrewed limb bolts). You got deltaDW. Then you can measure the clearance along the bolt axis or calculate it as C = N*P (where N is exact number of full turns out, P is thread pitch). Then measure distance (shortest) from the bolt axis to the center of limb support (d) and from the center of limb support to the center of cam axle (D). The value by which bow Axle-to-Axle must be increased (deltaAA) in order to drop down poundage by deltaDW is: [deltaAA = 2*D/d]. Delta A-A per 1 pound is [deltaAA1 = (2*D/d)/deltaDW] or... [deltaAAP = (P*2*D/d)/deltaDW] to decrease by P pounds. This is approximate because the dependence is much more complex. DeltaAAP is the value by which each string in set must be increased excluding yokes. Don`t forget to shift string stop, roller and center servings by DeltaAAP/2. 
In most cases it works at least in 10-pound range. Of course, you need to understand what you`re doind, measure carefully and take into account possible side effects. If you increase A-A by 3-4 inches draw weight will additionally drop down only due to A-A increase. And draw length and brace height will change more or less. 
In our area, there are great difficulties with spare parts, so I repeatedly had to change the poundage by string and cable lengthening on different bows. Most often unfortunately I didn’t even see these bows but I usually was within 2 pounds.


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## BWBOW

El cheapo can still build them
Flo red and black x99. Clear serving on the string and black on cables









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## automan26

Those string colors really pop against that black bow. Awesome job!!!

Automan


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## shootnAR

Ya I like them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Gene1

Those colors do pop. I wanted to buy those colors but was talked out of it. Family tells me it Looks like Halloween .


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## BWBOW

Gene1 said:


> Those colors do pop. I wanted to buy those colors but was talked out of it. Family tells me it Looks like Halloween .


But Halloween is best time to be hunting

Thanks guys. I'm happy with them


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## automan26

Huntinsker said:


> Saw a Brownell add in "Inside Archery" magazine saying they'll have a booth at the ATA show this year. Maybe they're going back into production? I sure hope so. I preferred their products, especially the wax content and consistency from roll to roll and color to color. Their material also just made a nicer looking string.


Is there any further news on Brownell? Their webpage is still not up and running.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Is there any further news on Brownell? Their webpage is still not up and running.
> 
> Automan


Only thing I heard was they are going back into production and the manufacturing will be in Peru and distribution will be from Tennessee. Peru has had a long history and tradition of making top quality textiles so hopefully they can make top quality fibers as well.


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## mattafliving

Production is actually being moved to Canada. The company who purchased brownell at auction is actually a company brownell was using to manufacture some of their fishing products. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

mattafliving said:


> Production is actually being moved to Canada. The company who purchased brownell at auction is actually a company brownell was using to manufacture some of their fishing products.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nice. I hope they make a good product.


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## Goldensombrero

Great read


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## jlohrer

Another big shout out to Huntinsker, Automan and everyone else who's contributed to this thread...I'm on page 101 and still working threw it. I've got my jig built, and my string just need to jump in and start building.


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## themartin

I'm building my first string/cable set. I've got the cables built, but I had to twist one more than the other to get to the correct length. Will this be ok, or will the different twist rates throw something off?


----------



## nestly

On a binary type system where both cams are identical, I think it's pretty important that both cables end up the same length at the same twist rate. Reason being that despite what's commonly stated, all strings/cable "stretch" as tension increases and since the tension on the cables increase from brace, to peak weight, to full draw, cables with different twist rates will not be exactly the same length at high and low tensions. This could possibly lead to the cams being "sync'd" at brace, but not full draw, or vice versa.

On Hybrid systems such as Hoyt, I think it's less important because the cams and cam tracks are different anyway, and the buss cable is under greater load at full draw anyway compared to the control cable. 

Personally, I would take the opportunity to figure out "why" they didn't end up the same length, and figure out how to make them all turn out to be the expected length. Being able to build a string that's within +/-1twist of the target length demonstrates that you're maintaining a consistency throughout your build process.


----------



## PowerLineman83

themartin said:


> I'm building my first string/cable set. I've got the cables built, but I had to twist one more than the other to get to the correct length. Will this be ok, or will the different twist rates throw something off?


They will be fine. Something in your layup process was different from one cable to the other. Not a huge deal though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## themartin

I appreciate the responses. I probably should've been more specific in that the difference was 1 or 2 twists, so not drastically different.


----------



## PowerLineman83

themartin said:


> I appreciate the responses. I probably should've been more specific in that the difference was 1 or 2 twists, so not drastically different.


Sure, I understand. 

Even if it were 10 twists, the only thing you’d notice would be that one was over twisted and the other would be “normal” looking. And the bow would be a PITA to tune IMO... 

You can be super anal about formula abs all that but at the end of the day you more than likely won’t tel much if any difference. You just don’t have to be that precise to get a quality product. I make sure my lengths are dead on before I ever serve anything. I’ve not had any trouble in 10 years of building.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JF from VA

In case anyone wants some Brownell Fury, Lancaster has it on clearance: https://www.lancasterarchery.com/brownell-fury-string-material-1-4.html


----------



## Jabr357

JF from VA said:


> In case anyone wants some Brownell Fury, Lancaster has it on clearance: https://www.lancasterarchery.com/brownell-fury-string-material-1-4.html


Great deal at 50% off for anyone that needs flo pink, flo yellow, golden yellow, flo purple, or teal. Too bad they don't have any other colors.


----------



## 138104

Trying to wrap my head around laying out a pin stripe string. Came across this thread and it has a lot of good info.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2145052


----------



## 138104

Success!!


----------



## automan26

It looks to me like you nailed it. The color separation looks clean and crisp. Great Job.

Automan


----------



## 138104

automan26 said:


> It looks to me like you nailed it. The color separation looks clean and crisp. Great Job.
> 
> Automan


Thanks! Cables came out great, but the string had a bit of color separation in some areas. I don't think I had enough tension on the string when twisting. The serving might cover some of it...lol! All in all it was easier than I expected.


----------



## Huntinsker

Saw this video finally about Brownell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=32&v=y9YDGpfo5Tg&feature=emb_logo


----------



## mattafliving

Huntinsker said:


> Saw this video finally about Brownell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=32&v=y9YDGpfo5Tg&feature=emb_logo


Well I stand corrected, they are moving it to south amaerica. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lab32

Huntinsker said:


> Saw this video finally about Brownell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=32&v=y9YDGpfo5Tg&feature=emb_logo


The best news from ATA show

Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

*Build the El-Cheap-O String Jig*

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p20sx0pp7ehj84z/El-Cheap-O 5.1.ppsx?dl=0

Due to the fact that I can nolonger insert the link to my jig and string building tutorial in my signature, periodically I plan to post this link so that it will be available to those who would like to see it. Some phones accept the download and some do not, so it might be best to download it to a computer.

Automan


----------



## nuthinbutnock

Perry24 said:


> Success!!


Looks good


----------



## Bowdacious94

Great read. saving link for sure


----------



## 138104

So, what causes the string to twist up like this when it is resting? On the jig it is fine, but would rather prevent it. My best guess is I am serving to tight, but I use the flag method and don't let the string turn more than a quarter turn. I also have my stretcher cranked to 400# when serving.


----------



## automan26

Excessive twisting is nearly always caused by a section of serving that has been served in the wrong direction. 

Automan


----------



## automan26

https://youtu.be/QshMqF06CmM

Check out this video.

Automan


----------



## 138104

automan26 said:


> https://youtu.be/QshMqF06CmM
> 
> Check out this video.
> 
> Automan


Yep, that is where I went wrong! Thank you for the video. I haven't had any issues with peep rotation, so other than them twisting when resting, is there any other concerns?


----------



## automan26

If your peep stays put you should be OK.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> So, what causes the string to twist up like this when it is resting? On the jig it is fine, but would rather prevent it. My best guess is I am serving to tight, but I use the flag method and don't let the string turn more than a quarter turn. I also have my stretcher cranked to 400# when serving.





automan26 said:


> Excessive twisting is nearly always caused by a section of serving that has been served in the wrong direction.
> 
> Automan


Totally agree with automan. When serving too tightly, the excessive twisting is actually under the serving and not visible, unless clear serving of course. When the twist is forced OUT from under the serving, the serving was applied the wrong way.

I really like that color combo though.


----------



## 138104

The twisties are gone! Thanks Automan for the help.


----------



## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> Totally agree with automan. When serving too tightly, the excessive twisting is actually under the serving and not visible, unless clear serving of course. When the twist is forced OUT from under the serving, the serving was applied the wrong way.
> 
> I really like that color combo though.


Thanks! These are for an E35 - green/tan with black pinstripe and tan serving.


----------



## sharptrenton

automan26 said:


> https://youtu.be/QshMqF06CmM
> 
> Check out this video.
> 
> Automan


This is an excellent video explaining serving direction


----------



## automan26

Perry24 said:


> The twisties are gone! Thanks Automan for the help.


That looks perfect!!! Great Job. (Nice Clock)

Automan


----------



## shootnAR

Doubled the amount of strands I needed on a 2 post setup.

FOR SALE: 1 New Jump Rope.


----------



## 138104

shootnAR said:


> Doubled the amount of strands I needed on a 2 post setup.
> 
> FOR SALE: 1 New Jump Rope.


I could see doing that myself...lol!


----------



## 138104

On the Mathews Crosscentric cam, do you lay it up that all tags are at one end? Also, do you just roll the end that connects to that plastic doohickey or do you twist and leave a small loop at the end for the lark's head hitch?


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> On the Mathews Crosscentric cam, do you lay it up that all tags are at one end? Also, do you just roll the end that connects to that plastic doohickey or do you twist and leave a small loop at the end for the lark's head hitch?


No need to roll it. Just twist and the loop will form. Make sure to secure the end so it doesn't come untwisted or "ugly" before installing. The tag ends do all have to be at one end unfortunately.


----------



## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> No need to roll it. Just twist and the loop will form. Make sure to secure the end so it doesn't come untwisted or "ugly" before installing. The tag ends do all have to be at one end unfortunately.


Thanks. I am just picking random bows to make strings to get practice. Figured that would be a good one to try.


----------



## rapids

Automan.......great explanation on which way to do your serving. The clock prop is outstanding.


----------



## duckdog28

*Very cool*

Great post, thanks for the idea.


----------



## MandK

This doesn't belong on page 3. Back to the top!


----------



## automan26

MandK said:


> This doesn't belong on page 3. Back to the top!


There's too many guys trying to get 20 posts so they can sell on the classified section. AT is getting flooded with this junk and good threads are getting moved out of the way too quickly. 

Automan


----------



## patches2565

automan26 said:


> There's too many guys trying to get 20 posts so they can sell on the classified section. AT is getting flooded with this junk and good threads are getting moved out of the way too quickly.
> 
> Automan


I agree 100 percent. I've given up on general archery and focus on tuning and brand specific. And this of course 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Yeah they think they can "lay low" in the DIY section and make their one or two word responses and move on. It's annoying but it's a small price for free classifieds and a little more protection from scammers.


----------



## 138104

Does anyone use Powergrip over Halo for end servings?


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Does anyone use Powergrip over Halo for end servings?


I have on some buss cables where Halo was getting chewed up pretty bad. It lasts longer but it finishes larger so you have to be aware of that.


----------



## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> I have on some buss cables where Halo was getting chewed up pretty bad. It lasts longer but it finishes larger so you have to be aware of that.


Thanks. Halo is so darn expensive, so was thinking of trying Powergrip. Could also use 3D on strings and save Halo for cables, but then have to keep 2 types on hand.


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. Halo is so darn expensive, so was thinking of trying Powergrip. Could also use 3D on strings and save Halo for cables, but then have to keep 2 types on hand.


Consider buying it on a 1/4lb spool. The upfront cost seems like a lot but each spool you can get off it is much cheaper than buying individual jig spools.


----------



## PowerLineman83

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. Halo is so darn expensive, so was thinking of trying Powergrip. Could also use 3D on strings and save Halo for cables, but then have to keep 2 types on hand.


Having more than one end serving on hand is just part of the gig if you’re doing it right.

Halo and 2x are my go to’s. Powergrip where needed and Angel Majesty. Don’t forget 008 Spectre, .007” Halo and PowerPro fishing line for loop serving. 

I can get by with less, but I have all of these on hand most of the time. I can build for any bow I may buy or trade for.

I’m not knocking you for the stance of one serving to do pretty much everything, because it simplifies EVERYTHING. I simply can’t do that and put out the best finished string possible. My OCD compels me! [emoji28]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jabr357

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. Halo is so darn expensive, so was thinking of trying Powergrip. Could also use 3D on strings and save Halo for cables, but then have to keep 2 types on hand.


Consider Chinese Spectra fishing line that you can buy on eBay instead of Halo. Much much cheaper and hate so say it, very good.


----------



## mattafliving

BOA serving in .014 is now available on Bloodlinefiber.com 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

mattafliving said:


> BOA serving in .014 is now available on Bloodlinefiber.com
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like nice stuff! I see only black and white are available. Will other colors be coming out soon? Also, does the white need a clarifier to clear up?


----------



## shortman80

great post. Thanks


----------



## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Looks like nice stuff! I see only black and white are available. Will other colors be coming out soon? Also, does the white need a clarifier to clear up?


Yes, all of the standard sizes will become available, along with all the colors available in Vec99 and BL99. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

PowerLineman83 said:


> Having more than one end serving on hand is just part of the gig if you’re doing it right.
> 
> Halo and 2x are my go to’s. Powergrip where needed and Angel Majesty. Don’t forget 008 Spectre, .007” Halo and PowerPro fishing line for loop serving.
> 
> I can get by with less, but I have all of these on hand most of the time. I can build for any bow I may buy or trade for.
> 
> I’m not knocking you for the stance of one serving to do pretty much everything, because it simplifies EVERYTHING. I simply can’t do that and put out the best finished string possible. My OCD compels me! [emoji28]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Gives me a lot to consider. Which material do you recommend for cams that chew up serving on cables?


----------



## PowerLineman83

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. Gives me a lot to consider. Which material do you recommend for cams that chew up serving on cables?


What bow? Post pix if you have any.

Halo for most, Powergrip and Angel Majesty for stubborn buss cables.

Finished diameter plays a big role in all of this too. You can use the “right” serving, bit if the bundle is too large the cam may still shred it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

PowerLineman83 said:


> What bow? Post pix if you have any.
> 
> Halo for most, Powergrip and Angel Majesty for stubborn buss cables.
> 
> Finished diameter plays a big role in all of this too. You can use the “right” serving, bit if the bundle is too large the cam may still shred it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


BTX31, used 32 strands of Mercury with .014 Halo. It's a friend's bow, so I'll see if I can get some pictures.

It's separating, not shredding. Bad choice of words on my part.


----------



## PowerLineman83

Perry24 said:


> BTX31, used 32 strands of Mercury with .014 Halo. It's a friend's bow, so I'll see if I can get some pictures.
> 
> It's separating, not shredding. Bad choice of words on my part.


Sounds good.

You can email or text too.
515-520-7111
[email protected]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sharptrenton

I am building a string and cables for an Elite Echelon. Which would be the best serving for the cables .014 Halo or .014 Powergrip? The string material is 452X, 24 strands and the color is brite white.


----------



## Huntinsker

sharptrenton said:


> I am building a string and cables for an Elite Echelon. Which would be the best serving for the cables .014 Halo or .014 Powergrip? The string material is 452X, 24 strands and the color is brite white.


White, natural in 452x, has very little wax so the diameter finishes a little smaller. That would allow you to use Powergrip with less issue but Elite is one of those brands that bigger isn't better when it comes to finished diameter. I also don't think the Echelon cams are all that hard on cable ends so Halo should do fine.


----------



## sharptrenton

Huntinsker said:


> White, natural in 452x, has very little wax so the diameter finishes a little smaller. That would allow you to use Powergrip with less issue but Elite is one of those brands that bigger isn't better when it comes to finished diameter. I also don't think the Echelon cams are all that hard on cable ends so Halo should do fine.


I was worried about the finished diameter of the Powergrip being just a little too big. I know on the Hoyts I used to shoot the bigger diameter didn't matter a lot but wasn't sure about the Elite Echelon. I'll just use the Halo on the cables and save the Powergrip for the center serving.


----------



## PowerLineman83

sharptrenton said:


> I was worried about the finished diameter of the Powergrip being just a little too big. I know on the Hoyts I used to shoot the bigger diameter didn't matter a lot but wasn't sure about the Elite Echelon. I'll just use the Halo on the cables and save the Powergrip for the center serving.


I’ve gotten to where I like to run .009” Powergrip on the letout(short serving) of the cables. Halo or Powergrip for the other end would be fine. Personally I use Halo...

Watch your transitions when closing your loops. Too bulky will cause trouble.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

*The String Builder's Advantage*















A couple months ago I purchased a new PSE Supra Focus. Immediately, I decided to build a new set of flo red threads, but after I had them on the bow I was disappointed. Once they had been installed on the bow my flo red became pink and after about 50 shots those pink strings had to go, so I built another set in yellow and those threads really made my bow pop. The point I am making is, had I not been a string builder I would have laid out a chunk of change for a set of threads that I hated once they were on the bow and would have had to make due with them for a year or more until I had the cash to replace the strings I hated for something I really wanted in the first place. 

That's exactly why we build our own strings; if I have a set I hate I can always go to the jig and crank out something better, even If I have to build more than one set to get what I'm after, it doesn't cost me hundreds of dollars and weeks of waiting, just hoping that the set I have coming is really what I want.

If you are one of those guys who is hesitant to take the plunge, my advice is to jump in and have some fun. Learn to build exactly what you want and build something that will make your bow the talk of the club. It's not at all hard to learn, but it's addictive.

Automan


----------



## cruizerjoy

Do you still let the string relax for 4 hours after stretching before you serve? Its been a while since I built a set and I see you have changed the process some so thought I would ask. Thanks guys. If I can remember I will post some pics when I get done.


----------



## JF from VA

Hi Automan. What material did you use to build your strings? I have a 2019 Supra Focus and it will be ready for a new set of strings in a few months. How did you make the little string that goes over the "banana"?


----------



## Dustoff

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7077523
> View attachment 7077527
> 
> 
> A couple months ago I purchased a new PSE Supra Focus. Immediately, I decided to build a new set of flo red threads, but after I had them on the bow I was disappointed. Once they had been installed on the bow my flo red became pink and after about 50 shots those pink strings had to go, so I built another set in yellow and those threads really made my bow pop. The point I am making is, had I not been a string builder I would have laid out a chunk of change for a set of threads that I hated once they were on the bow and would have had to make due with them for a year or more until I had the cash to replace the strings I hated for something I really wanted in the first place.
> 
> That's exactly why we build our own strings; if I have a set I hate I can always go to the jig and crank out something better, even If I have to build more than one set to get what I'm after, it doesn't cost me hundreds of dollars and weeks of waiting, just hoping that the set I have coming is really what I want.
> 
> If you are one of those guys who is hesitant to take the plunge, my advice is to jump in and have some fun. Learn to build exactly what you want and build something that will make your bow the talk of the club. It's not at all hard to learn, but it's addictive.
> 
> Automan


Which material did you use that the red turned out pink?


----------



## Shs1975

Following


----------



## automan26

Dustoff said:


> Which material did you use that the red turned out pink?


Flo red Fury. It looked very hot pink on the spool, but it really pinked-up against the black bow. I just started learning to build wrist slings and that pink sling was another mistake. 

Automan


----------



## Dustoff

automan26 said:


> Flo red Fury. It looked very hot pink on the spool, but it really pinked-up against the black bow. I just started learning to build wrist slings and that pink sling was another mistake.
> 
> Automan


It looks pretty. Really brings out your feminine side.


----------



## Huntinsker

cruizerjoy said:


> Do you still let the string relax for 4 hours after stretching before you serve? Its been a while since I built a set and I see you have changed the process some so thought I would ask. Thanks guys. If I can remember I will post some pics when I get done.


I usually wait a while. Most of the time it's more than 4 hours because I have other stuff to do but I would at least give it an hour before measuring again and serving. It becomes somewhat less important after you've gotten your process down and you "know" that the piece is the correct length. It's always good to check but I can't remember the last time I wasn't within at least a twist or two to dead on what I wanted.


----------



## cruizerjoy

Huntinsker said:


> I usually wait a while. Most of the time it's more than 4 hours because I have other stuff to do but I would at least give it an hour before measuring again and serving. It becomes somewhat less important after you've gotten your process down and you "know" that the piece is the correct length. It's always good to check but I can't remember the last time I wasn't within at least a twist or two to dead on what I wanted.


Thanks for the reply. I figured it certainly wouldn't hurt to let em relax a little. I'm using X99 and have had very little stretch on the jig and very little spring back while letting them relax. Considerably different from 452x.


----------



## austin.kantola

Man I have a lot of reading to do, but read the first few initial posts has me super pumped for getting into building my own string. Thanks so much for putting the time and effort into creating this thread!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p20sx0pp7ehj84z/El-Cheap-O 5.1.ppsx?dl=0

Welcome to the addiction. Look over the tutorial in the link above. If you ever have questions there are dozens of builders right here who are anxious to help you thru any questions you may have.

Automan


----------



## cruizerjoy

bump


----------



## 138104

So, I needed some material to finish a set. I assumed the color was tan, so I ordered tan Mercury. Well, obviously they aren't the same. Any idea what the color is in that string?


----------



## SamT

Maybe Natural. ? Here's a link to BCY color chart: http://www.bcyfibers.com/ColorCard060619.pdf

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

SamT said:


> Maybe Natural. ? Here's a link to BCY color chart: http://www.bcyfibers.com/ColorCard060619.pdf
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


Definitely not natural. I looked at the chart and only other possibility would be buckskin.


----------



## waykura

Great work. Thank you.


----------



## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Definitely not natural. I looked at the chart and only other possibility would be buckskin.


That’s buckskin, natural in mercury would be white. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

mattafliving said:


> That’s buckskin, natural in mercury would be white.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Hopefully, I can exchange.


----------



## 138104

I have some 452x I'd like to use up, so I am going to build a set for a VXR 31.5. For the yokes, I plan to use 20 strands and the rest 24. With 3D serving, should I be ok finished diameter-wise?


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> I have some 452x I'd like to use up, so I am going to build a set for a VXR 31.5. For the yokes, I plan to use 20 strands and the rest 24. With 3D serving, should I be ok finished diameter-wise?


Should be good.


----------



## Rmdmooch

Hello all, I’m going to attempt to build a shooter string for a Hoyt rx1. I plan to match the rest of the string so I’m using 452x flo yellow. I would like some help figuring out the diameter and proper material for the end and center serving. I would like to use white(to make it clear/see thru??) for the end and black for the center. I’m currently building an “el cheapo” jig. Also, I can’t thank you guys enough for your plans on the jig. I greatly appreciate your interest in teaching the archers who are just starting out. Big thanks to AT also. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PowerLineman83

Rmdmooch said:


> Hello all, I’m going to attempt to build a shooter string for a Hoyt rx1. I plan to match the rest of the string so I’m using 452x flo yellow. I would like some help figuring out the diameter and proper material for the end and center serving. I would like to use white(to make it clear/see thru??) for the end and black for the center. I’m currently building an “el cheapo” jig. Also, I can’t thank you guys enough for your plans on the jig. I greatly appreciate your interest in teaching the archers who are just starting out. Big thanks to AT also.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Hoyt tune charts have string layouts with all the specifics you’ll need.


https://s3.hoyt.com/uploads/2019/5a54076423435978011800.pdf


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----------



## Rmdmooch

Thanks


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----------



## Frank-the-5th

Morning fellas,

I just got a 2 post added to my jig so I can start doing served end loops. I’m trying to get down how I want to finish the end loops still. When you backserve the serving material for the loop, do y’all burn the tag end down or just cut it clean? And as far as finishing the tag ends, does anyone just cut those clean as well? I’ve been back serving them about 5 wraps and then cutting them. Thanks fellas! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dustoff

Frank-the-5th said:


> Morning fellas,
> 
> I just got a 2 post added to my jig so I can start doing served end loops. I’m trying to get down how I want to finish the end loops still. When you backserve the serving material for the loop, do y’all burn the tag end down or just cut it clean? And as far as finishing the tag ends, does anyone just cut those clean as well? I’ve been back serving them about 5 wraps and then cutting them. Thanks fellas!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For both I just cut it. Burning it makes a bump in the outer serving. I leave maybe 1/16 to 1/8" from flush and serve right over it.


----------



## Huntinsker

Frank-the-5th said:


> Morning fellas,
> 
> I just got a 2 post added to my jig so I can start doing served end loops. I’m trying to get down how I want to finish the end loops still. When you backserve the serving material for the loop, do y’all burn the tag end down or just cut it clean? And as far as finishing the tag ends, does anyone just cut those clean as well? I’ve been back serving them about 5 wraps and then cutting them. Thanks fellas!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't burn a ball on the serving or it'll make the transition over it messy. For the string tag ends, I'll wrap them through the middle of the bundle a few times and cut them flush. It holds them tightly and helps to create a little smoother transition up onto the loop serving. Granted I haven't done many served loops but the ones I have done turned out really nice like that.


----------



## 138104

I was researching Bloodline material and came across guys debating how to split the string for the peep. Some go between the bundles vertically and some horizontally. I split horizontally, however I had a pinstripe string go crazy and pull the stripe out of the bundle. What do you guys find that is working?


----------



## 138104

Perry24 said:


> I have some 452x I'd like to use up, so I am going to build a set for a VXR 31.5. For the yokes, I plan to use 20 strands and the rest 24. With 3D serving, should I be ok finished diameter-wise?


Here's the finished product. Forgot to take served measurements, but pre-served bundle was .0890. Guessing with .014 Halo it should have been .103 ish?

Building these makes me want to spring for a power serving machine. Even with the NW Spinner, my hands were hurting after running 26" and 23" on the string. I give guys who hand served the lengths on single cams all the credit in the world!


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> I was researching Bloodline material and came across guys debating how to split the string for the peep. Some go between the bundles vertically and some horizontally. I split horizontally, however I had a pinstripe string go crazy and pull the stripe out of the bundle. What do you guys find that is working?


I've separated the different colors from one another and I've gone down the center of the bundle before twisting, half of each color on each side (true center), and I've never noticed a difference. If the bundles are laid out properly and you have even tension, you won't have peep twist either way.


----------



## automan26

Perry24 said:


> Here's the finished product. Forgot to take served measurements, but pre-served bundle was .0890. Guessing with .014 Halo it should have been .103 ish?
> 
> Building these makes me want to spring for a power serving machine. Even with the NW Spinner, my hands were hurting after running 26" and 23" on the string. I give guys who hand served the lengths on single cams all the credit in the world!


Nice threads. Just wait till you start busting Xs with strings you built yourself. I'd like to see a pic of the grin on your face. LOL

Automan


----------



## 138104

automan26 said:


> Nice threads. Just wait till you start busting Xs with strings you built yourself. I'd like to see a pic of the grin on your face. LOL
> 
> Automan


Thanks. Still need to tidy up my serving by the loop, but happy with the results so far. I don't even own a VXR, so made that set just for practice. I ended up selling them, so that can be reinvested in string and serving material!


----------



## strut22

Looking for advice for newbie. i have built the el-cheapo jig and now need to get some string material. i am looking at x99 for both compound and recurve. I want to get probably 3 colors to start, I'd like to serve mostly clear except for center serving I was thinking .014 halo or 3d and .018 pwrgrip for center. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Main bows would be Mathews traverse, Hoyt faktor and samick sage recurves.


----------



## Huntinsker

strut22 said:


> Looking for advice for newbie. i have built the el-cheapo jig and now need to get some string material. i am looking at x99 for both compound and recurve. I want to get probably 3 colors to start, I'd like to serve mostly clear except for center serving I was thinking .014 halo or 3d and .018 pwrgrip for center. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. Main bows would be Mathews traverse, Hoyt faktor and samick sage recurves.


You're on the right track. Halo for cable ends, 3d for string ends and the powergrip would make a good center serving for the compound. It may be a little rough for the serving on your recurves but Halo or 3d would work there too as long as you get the nock fit correct. Also, depending on strand count and nock size, you might want some .014 powergrip for centers too. All my bows have .014 pg for center serving because all my nocks fit better on it. That's part of the benefit of building your own. You can get the exact fit/specs you want.


----------



## strut22

Thanks for the help. I already have a few different center serving mtrls. and sizes so I should be able to make something work. It looks like buying Halo in bulk may be a better solution any idea on where to get empty spools.


----------



## Huntinsker

strut22 said:


> Thanks for the help. I already have a few different center serving mtrls. and sizes so I should be able to make something work. It looks like buying Halo in bulk may be a better solution any idea on where to get empty spools.


I know at one time that 60x was selling jig spools. Eric Griggs of GAS bowstrings was also selling anodized aluminum spools a while ago. Not sure if he's still selling those or not. You can find a 4 pack on ebay or amazon but I think they're a little pricey for what they are.


----------



## strut22

Any experience with x99 good or bad, tips or tricks? Thanks again


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

strut22 said:


> Any experience with x99 good or bad, tips or tricks? Thanks again


I use x99 for a fair bit (while I run out my x of other colours), 28 strand, 3D ends, powergrip .018 for centres, to fit hunter Beiter nocks (and large groove g-nocks) drop down to 24 or 26 strand with some fluoro colours, they get fat ;-) 

I wouldn’t use x99 for recurve strings, I only use angel majesty or 8125, x99 doesn’t have any give, and some limb manufacturers will void any warranty claims if you do.. 


Tom


----------



## strut22

Thanks for the info guys hopefully I can post some pics in the coming weeks.


----------



## mattafliving

Bloodline BL99 and BOA serving! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dustoff

mattafliving said:


> Bloodline BL99 and BOA serving!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you give us a rundown on the BOA serving? Such as what material it is, how its constructed whether or not it maintains its shape or if it flattens out. What other servings could it be compared to as far as grip and durability? Will the .014" white serve clear?


----------



## BWBOW

Always wanted 1 of the limited elite impulse 31s they did in original realtree. Found one and matched it pretty well. 20strands black/10strands kiwi in x99. Built on a el cheapo









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## automan26

I really like that color combo. It goes very nicely with the camo scheme on the bow. Great Job.

Automan


----------



## BWBOW

Thanks. Love the old school camo


----------



## automan26

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p20sx0pp7ehj84z/El-Cheap-O 5.1.ppsx?dl=0

Earlier I promised to keep this link in the forefront for those who may be looking for El-Cheap-O build instructions. I am unable to post this link in my signature, so I'll try to keep it where people can find it.

Automan


----------



## adamsarchers

I haven't had time to read through the entire thread, but have saved it to my favorites for future reading. Thanks for posting this - this is something I've wanted to try for years, and I think this is just what I needed to convince me to give it a try. Thank you.


----------



## automan26

adamsarchers said:


> I haven't had time to read through the entire thread, but have saved it to my favorites for future reading. Thanks for posting this - this is something I've wanted to try for years, and I think this is just what I needed to convince me to give it a try. Thank you.


Don't wait...Come jump in and enjoy a new aspect to archery that will greatly enhance your total experience. Open my link above and give it a serious look. The jig is designed to be something anyone can build. Video tutorials will guide you thru each step, all the way to a finished string.

Automan


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## automan26

At this very moment I'm watching a basketball game while I have a cable on my jig. At halftime I'm going to serve it up. I'm building a set of threads for a friend who owns my favorite pro shop. I can't wait to see his expression when we install these new threads on his bow next Tuesday. It's a great feeling to install strings you built yourself then step back and admire your work knowing that someone else is going to be enjoying all your hard work and attention to detail. 

The game just hit halftime...Time to get to work.

Automan


----------



## DeerOnDeathRow

Nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## automan26

For what it's worth, here's a pic of the strings I was building last night. I think he will be pleased. Also, I don't know if it was a good idea or not, but I learned to make paracord slings to match the color combo of the bow and strings. The sling works nice, but I think I just picked up another addiction I don't need. LOL


Automan


----------



## Frank-the-5th

Been learning served end loops the last month. Pretty pleased with how thus set came out.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## automan26

Just this morning I criticized a major string builder whose loops were not nearly as nice as yours. That puts you ahead of some of the big boys. Be proud of your work, it's right up there ahead of a couple of the best. 

Automan


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## Dustoff

I'm pretty disappointed in quality of some of those big names. They just mass produce strings and don't care about the quality like an individual string builder does.


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## automan26

Dustoff said:


> I'm pretty disappointed in quality of some of those big names. They just mass produce strings and don't care about the quality like an individual string builder does.


Brown Loop--- Top Name Builder--- One of the big guys
Orange Loop--- No-Name Builder--- Hobby guy just have'n fun

Automan


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## automan26

I just checked that company's (The brown string) website. They will build you a custom set of threads with this level of quality for about $130.00. Now it's easy to understand why we elect to build our own.

Automan


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## PowerLineman83

automan26 said:


> Brown Loop--- Top Name Builder--- One of the big guys
> Orange Loop--- No-Name Builder--- Hobby guy just have'n fun
> 
> Automan


There is something you’re overlooking here too. One is served toward the loop, the other away. 

I’m not standing up for the big guy, but it makes a difference if you’re serving away and using a serving machine. Functionality difference is negligible if you ask me. Both loops will work just fine. The obvious difference is in the aesthetics. The latter I will not debate because everyone has an opinion and it is pretty subjective.

If anyone is curious, I do both toward and away from the loop on my own strings. I’ve used a Super Server(when I ran my own string biz) and I’m currently using a BAP jig and a wooden wheel. Anyhow, I serve left to right... away from the left loop and toward the right loop. It has given me the best results.

I love the discussion and I still have a passion for string building and archery in general. Thanks Automan!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RatherBArchery

I am sure it was discussed here but I have cams that are notorious for serving separation at the harsh spot on the module and string track on the cams, I currently use 3-D serving on Trophy string material. What type end serving holds up best for this type thing???? Thanks in advance...…….. My thoughts are BCY Power Grip or Halo...…………..


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## RatherBArchery

RatherBArchery said:


> I am sure it was discussed here but I have cams that are notorious for serving separation at the harsh spot on the module and string track on the cams, I currently use 3-D serving on Trophy string material. What type end serving holds up best for this type thing???? Thanks in advance...…….. My thoughts are BCY Power Grip or Halo...…………..


Think I found this discussed on here and it was suggested to use Powergrip…………….. any other thoughts???


----------



## 138104

RatherBArchery said:


> Think I found this discussed on here and it was suggested to use Powergrip…………….. any other thoughts???


I've seen folks recommend Angel Majesty for tight bends, but I have no experience with it.


----------



## Huntinsker

Does anyone have a full factory spooled jig spool of white .014 halo that they could put caliper to and get a diameter measurement and put it on a grain scale for me? I got a jig spool of regular green from a certain company recently and it's clearly missing a bunch of serving. I weighed it compared to several partially used spools I have and they all weighed over 300gr with the most full weighing 364gr. The new spool weighs just 284gr and is visibly narrower than my partially used spools. The company says that's because green uses less wax and dye and so it'll be lighter and narrower than other colors. I think they're selling partial jig spools for full price and I'm kind of ticked off about it and their lame excuse. 

By my calculations based on weight, they've shorted me approximately 53 yards of material. That's nearly half a spool!


----------



## nestly

Red, black & white 014 Halo right out of BCY packaging










Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk


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## nestly

My partially used spools flo green and electric red 014 Halo measure almost the same dia.....weight difference seems negligible.









Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk


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## lab32

Once I received new 1/4 spool of halo 014 which weighed exactly 1/4 including plastic base. My current large black spool has a knot approximately every 50 yards. Recently ordered BOA serving but bloodline site says "shipping delay: expect to ship 3-5-20". I miss Brownell.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Red, black & white 014 Halo right out of BCY packaging
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk





nestly said:


> My partially used spools flo green and electric red 014 Halo measure almost the same dia.....weight difference seems negligible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk


Thanks nestly! I'll wait to see what they say to my reply about the white spool weight and size and if they don't at least offer to make it right, I'll tell people who it was. I understand that mistakes happen so we'll see if they try to fix it. Though I've already had a couple people guess who I got it from because they've had the same issue.


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## 138104

lab32 said:


> Once I received new 1/4 spool of halo 014 which weighed exactly 1/4 including plastic base. My current large black spool has a knot approximately every 50 yards. Recently ordered BOA serving but bloodline site says "shipping delay: expect to ship 3-5-20". I miss Brownell.


Please let us know how the Boa performs. I ordered a roll of VEC99 yesterday, but held off on trying the Boa until some reviews pop up.


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## PowerLineman83

lab32 said:


> Once I received new 1/4 spool of halo 014 which weighed exactly 1/4 including plastic base. My current large black spool has a knot approximately every 50 yards. Recently ordered BOA serving but bloodline site says "shipping delay: expect to ship 3-5-20". I miss Brownell.


Brownell was supposed to be back. I can’t remember what they said at the ATA as far as when material would ship, but it would be something to look into.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jabr357

Huntinsker said:


> Thanks nestly! I'll wait to see what they say to my reply about the white spool weight and size and if they don't at least offer to make it right, I'll tell people who it was. I understand that mistakes happen so we'll see if they try to fix it. Though I've already had a couple people guess who I got it from because they've had the same issue.


That's pretty shady if true. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## BWBOW

automan26 said:


> For what it's worth, here's a pic of the strings I was building last night. I think he will be pleased. Also, I don't know if it was a good idea or not, but I learned to make paracord slings to match the color combo of the bow and strings. The sling works nice, but I think I just picked up another addiction I don't need. LOL
> 
> 
> Automan


Like it


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## #1Buckslayer

The weight difference could be from the white not having colorant. We buy serving by the feet not on weight.


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## Huntinsker

#1Buckslayer said:


> The weight difference could be from the white not having colorant. We buy serving by the feet not on weight.


No doubt the weight difference is due to the dye/wax content but my "full" green spool weighs significantly less than a white spool. It should weigh significantly more than the white if it were the same amount of yards on the spool, not less.


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## #1Buckslayer

Huntinsker said:


> No doubt the weight difference is due to the dye/wax content but my "full" green spool weighs significantly less than a white spool. It should weigh significantly more than the white if it were the same amount of yards on the spool, not less.


You also have to take into account the weight of the jig spool its self. There could be a lot of variation for that too. Also if the spools are wound with different tensions the finished diameter of the spools will be different size also.


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## Huntinsker

#1Buckslayer said:


> You also have to take into account the weight of the jig spool its self. There could be a lot of variation for that too. Also if the spools are wound with different tensions the finished diameter of the spools will be different size also.


I've taken that into account as well. I have several empty spools and they all weighed within 2gr of one another. Not near enough to account for the weight difference in my "full spool". Also, the diameter might be different because of the spooling tension but the tension will not account for the weight difference.


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> I've taken that into account as well. I have several empty spools and they all weighed within 2gr of one another. Not near enough to account for the weight difference in my "full spool". Also, the diameter might be different because of the spooling tension but the tension will not account for the weight difference.


It might be prudent to transfer that material onto another spool just to make sure. I grabbed as many empty spools as I could carry at one time in two hands (10) and most were within 3 grains, two were 5 grains heavy, and one was 15 grains heavier. All those spools would have been bought within the last few years, but I still have jig spools from 25years ago with material on them and their appearance is somewhat different so I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be very close in weight. Also, I don't know how tight the standard is for hub diameter. All those I measured were very close to 3/4", but if someone does/did make spools with 5/8 or even 1/2" hubs, that would make the spool lighter, and also it would appear to have less material even if it didn't 
I'm guessing you got shorted, but it might be wise to double check before blowing them up.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> It might be prudent to transfer that material onto another spool just to make sure. I grabbed as many empty spools as I could carry at one time in two hands (10) and most were within 3 grains, two were 5 grains heavy, and one was 15 grains heavier. All those spools would have been bought within the last few years, but I still have jig spools from 25years ago with material on them and their appearance is somewhat different so I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be very close in weight. Also, I don't know how tight the standard is for hub diameter. All those I measured were very close to 3/4", but if someone does/did make spools with 5/8 or even 1/2" hubs, that would make the spool lighter, and also it would appear to have less material even if it didn't
> I'm guessing you got shorted, but it might be wise to double check before blowing them up.


I used a 300' tape to actually run the whole spool out and measure it. There was about 218' on the spool, total. 142' short of the full 120 yards that there was supposed to be. I told them that I would be okay with a refund of 40% since they shorted me 40% of the material that was supposed to be on it. I'm going to wait to see what they say/do before doing anything else. I can't imagine that someone could accidentally not put nearly half the material on the spool. It's either intentional or they need to fire the dullard running the spooler.


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> I used a 300' tape to actually run the whole spool out and measure it. There was about 218' on the spool, total. 142' short of the full 120 yards that there was supposed to be. I told them that I would be okay with a refund of 40% since they shorted me 40% of the material that was supposed to be on it. I'm going to wait to see what they say/do before doing anything else. I can't imagine that someone could accidentally not put nearly half the material on the spool. It's either intentional or they need to fire the dullard running the spooler.


I should have known you'd be thorough  Interested to hear how it works out.

I wonder if I'm getting shorted.... my serving spools never last as long as I think they should .... hahaha


----------



## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> I should have known you'd be thorough  Interested to hear how it works out.
> 
> I wonder if I'm getting shorted.... my serving spools never last as long as I think they should .... hahaha


Haha if you're shopping with this place, you probably are. 

I took a video of the measuring process. Not cinematic quality stuff but it get's the point across. I had to update my laptop to Windows 10 and now I'm unable to open or play the video. I downloaded a third party video viewer that will play it but I haven't been able to get any video editing programs to work.


----------



## Jabr357

Way to go Huntinsker! They should know better that to try to cheat a string maker who is accurate within a 1/16" LOL. I think many of us know who the culprit likely is - hoping it's a mistake. Let us know and thanks for sharing.


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## mattafliving

lab32 said:


> Once I received new 1/4 spool of halo 014 which weighed exactly 1/4 including plastic base. My current large black spool has a knot approximately every 50 yards. Recently ordered BOA serving but bloodline site says "shipping delay: expect to ship 3-5-20". I miss Brownell.


For Bloodlines BOA, we were not expecting the high demand that occurred for the serving material, and are experiencing delays. Shoot me a PM and send over your order number and I’ll look up your status. 

We have actually order 3 additional coating machines so that we can meet the higher demand for material, without there being any delays. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> For Bloodlines BOA, we were not expecting the high demand that occurred for the serving material, and are experiencing delays. Shoot me a PM and send over your order number and I’ll look up your status.
> 
> We have actually order 3 additional coating machines so that we can meet the higher demand for material, without there being any delays.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will other colors be available soon?


----------



## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Will other colors be available soon?


Once the other coating machines come in we will begin to roll out all of the colors! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> Once the other coating machines come in we will begin to roll out all of the colors!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. Do you plan to offer different diameters or only .014?


----------



## iaymnu

Made my first attempt, somewhat frustrating at first but it turned out pretty well in the end. Detailed information.


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## Huntinsker

Well they had all day to respond to my email but did not. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe the gal that I replied to was sick or had the day off, and wait until Monday evening to do anything but I have a video showing me measuring the partial spool that I think people should see. I'll bet there's a lot of others who have paid full price for partial spools as well.


----------



## 138104

Does anyone have speed nock locations for a Faktor 30 with #2 cam?


----------



## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Thank you. Do you plan to offer different diameters or only .014?


Yes, pretty much all the sizes needed for making recurve, compound, and crossbows. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Does anyone have speed nock locations for a Faktor 30 with #2 cam?


Top: 3 nocks starting at 14.5"
Bottom: 3 nocks starting at 14.5", 3 nocks starting at 16"


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> Top: 3 nocks starting at 14.5"
> Bottom: 3 nocks starting at 14.5", 3 nocks starting at 16"


Awesome, thank you!


----------



## lab32

mattafliving said:


> For Bloodlines BOA, we were not expecting the high demand that occurred for the serving material, and are experiencing delays. Shoot me a PM and send over your order number and I’ll look up your status.
> 
> We have actually order 3 additional coating machines so that we can meet the higher demand for material, without there being any delays.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you it would be nice. Order #1287. I`ll sent you PM also.


----------



## Gene1

Does anybody have speed nocks location for Hoyt Prevail 40 SVX #3?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> Does anybody have speed nocks location for Hoyt Prevail 40 SVX #3?
> Thanks in advance.


The new Hoyt bows are on their tune charts. https://s3.hoyt.com/uploads/2019/5b0477bb82782810350779.pdf


----------



## Gene1

Yes I used that chart for the string lengths and serving lengths.

I do not see placement of the speed nocks.

I purchase this bow used and it had non factory strings and had a few rubber nocks which I placed on the strings at the same location.
I just wanted to make sure it was at the correct location.


----------



## PowerLineman83

Gene1 said:


> Yes I used that chart for the string lengths and serving lengths.
> 
> I do not see placement of the speed nocks.
> 
> I purchase this bow used and it had non factory strings and had a few rubber nocks which I placed on the strings at the same location.
> I just wanted to make sure it was at the correct location.


Far right column, measurement ‘E’ “top and bot #1 bank” those are the speed nock locations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PowerLineman83

Gene1 said:


> Yes I used that chart for the string lengths and serving lengths.
> 
> I do not see placement of the speed nocks.
> 
> I purchase this bow used and it had non factory strings and had a few rubber nocks which I placed on the strings at the same location.
> I just wanted to make sure it was at the correct location.


It appears they don’t give a measurement for SVX cams. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gene1

Does that mean it doesn’t help and not recommend?

I don’t have a chronograph but I guess I can record the audio from release click till it hits the target and calculate speed and time. 

I did that last time when I change the X23 tip weight heavier to 150 grain and compare them. It was a faction slower. I changed phones and now I don’t have that data.
It’s amazing how much these smart phones can do.


----------



## nestly

PowerLineman83 said:


> It appears they don’t give a measurement for SVX cams.


As far as I know, Hoyt has never put speed nocks on any bow that used the XT (recurved) limbs AND the Spiral family of cams (which includes the SVX). I don't think it was a mistake or oversight either, there was surely a reason.


----------



## lab32

Gene1 said:


> Does anybody have speed nocks location for Hoyt Prevail 40 SVX #3?
> Thanks in advance.


I built strings for my friend's Prevail 37 svx#3. Sent him some black saunders nocks. he found out correct quantity and position that increased speed. Centered 4x14.63 from top loop, 4x14.75. We also experimented with serving and strand count so I sent him 2-3 shooting strings with speed nocks installed. For Prevail 40 maybe less weight needed.

Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


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## lab32

14.75 from bottom loop 

Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


----------



## Gene1

Thanks


----------



## lab32

Forgot to say his string is 1/4 longer than specs, so maybe each set is better to be 1/8 closer to loop. 14.5 and 14.63

Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

Wonder if this would work to transfer from bulk to spools?


----------



## Rmdmooch

Does anyone ever use dummy tag ends on both end loops to make an additional customizable feature? If you did how could you secure the real tag ends? I’m curious cuz I just started building strings. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

Rmdmooch said:


> Does anyone ever use dummy tag ends on both end loops to make an additional customizable feature? If you did how could you secure the real tag ends? I’m curious cuz I just started building strings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you are doing that, you might as well do served end loops.


----------



## Huntinsker

Rmdmooch said:


> Does anyone ever use dummy tag ends on both end loops to make an additional customizable feature? If you did how could you secure the real tag ends? I’m curious cuz I just started building strings.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've not done that before but it wouldn't be hard. I'd do it just like I do pinstripe sets. You'd have to secure the actual tag ends at the other end or in the middle of the string somehow, so they wrap around the post. Then use your loop material to wrap the loop most of the way, then undo your actual tag ends, wrap them through the middle of the bundle a few times and wrap over them with the tag ends. Something like this. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=56&p=1071270374#post1071270374 

You could also finish the loop and then back serve the actual tag ends at the end of the loop wraps to lock them in. Just depends on what you prefer.


----------



## wv hoyt man

Lot of great information.


----------



## BWBOW

Funny never paid much attention to my serving spool size when I get them in, they where generally 3/4 full. Just ordered some from a new place and very noticable on how much fuller they where then where I have been getting them the last few years. 
Think bulk spools are next for me


----------



## carstud

I have noticed that since i have started buying my supplies through a local archery shop, that i am able to make my material go a lot further than i was when i was purchasing from a seller on E-Bay.


----------



## Huntinsker

Well it's lunch time here and still no email reply. I sent it again, maybe it didn't go through some how. If they haven't messaged back by tonight, I'll post who it is and the video. Another builder on Facebook showed me a picture of a brand new spool of silver serving that only weighs 200gr! A jig spool weighs 150ish grains so he's really getting robbed!


----------



## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> Well it's lunch time here and still no email reply. I sent it again, maybe it didn't go through some how. If they haven't messaged back by tonight, I'll post who it is and the video. Another builder on Facebook showed me a picture of a brand new spool of silver serving that only weighs 200gr! A jig spool weighs 150ish grains so he's really getting robbed!


Is there a string builder's page on FB?

Do I get 60 chances to hit the X on who it is...lol!


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Is there a string builder's page on FB?
> 
> Do I get 60 chances to hit the X on who it is...lol!


Haha you clearly won't need all 60 guesses. The facebook groups are private, invite only, type groups with mostly string building businesses/owners, I think there's maybe one other "hobbyist" like myself. I was invited early on because of my connection to this thread and developing an AT friendship with the groups administrator. Some of the guys that post in this thread are in those groups as well, which I love to see. Some of the guys in those groups started their business because of this thread, which is also very cool. I'm not able to invite people into them though.


----------



## Huntinsker

UPDATE on the partial spool. So as most already know, the company that I got the partial spool from was 60x custom strings. A lot of us have purchased from them in the past and for somethings, I've not ever had a problem, mostly the string material because they don't spool that themselves. For the serving that they spool themselves, you might want to look elsewhere. I have been told by more than a handful of people over the last couple days that they also got short spooled from 60x so this isn't exactly an isolated thing. 

*They never did contact me back after I told them exactly how much serving was left off the spool but they gave me a 50% refund through Paypal today*. I give them credit for that but I should not have had to ask for money back to begin with. Fair and honest is how I run my business and I like to deal with other fair and honest businesses. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to describe them as that so my business will go elsewhere. There is little doubt in my mind that they've knowingly been shorting people serving for quite some time. 

*If you do choose to purchase serving from 60x custom strings, check your spools before using them. If they're obviously short on material, tell them about it.* Maybe if they keep having to issue refunds, they'll just do it right in the first place. For reference, depending on the color, a full jig spool should weigh anywhere from approximately 325 to 365gr or so. 

Because they did give the resolution that I asked for, I don't feel it's appropriate to post the "call out" video of me measuring my spool proving how much was missing. But if you're reading this, tell you friends to check their orders if they choose to order from 60x.


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## nestly

Interesting. I used 60X a good amount in the past, but after a price increase a few years ago, their pricing made them less appealing to me, especially since Ive always been somewhat annoyed by the re-spooling of serving materials and the poor identification of the jig spools (ie sharpie). Currently, I can get originally packaged and labelled jig spools at a better price, so it's been a while since I used them. I don't believe I was ever "shorted", except one 1/8# spool of 452X had was pieced together with a knot, which was annoying.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> Interesting. I used 60X a good amount in the past, but after a price increase a few years ago, their pricing made them less appealing to me, especially since Ive always been somewhat annoyed by the re-spooling of serving materials and the poor identification of the jig spools (ie sharpie). Currently, I can get originally packaged and labelled jig spools at a better price, so it's been a while since I used them. I don't believe I was ever "shorted", except one 1/8# spool of 452X had was pieced together with a knot, which was annoying.


I did too. I even said early in the thread that they were a good place to buy from. I don't remember getting shorted but it seems things have changed. Their yard stick lost 16" over the years haha.


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## lab32

Well... my 1/4# spool of black halo that weighed exactly 1/4# gross I bought from 60x too.

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## Jabr357

lab32 said:


> Well... my 1/4# spool of black halo that weighed exactly 1/4# gross I bought from 60x too.
> 
> Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


Do you mean the plastic spool and halo serving together weighed 1/4#? I thought 1/4# meant you get 1/4# of halo serving material.


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## lab32

Jabr357 said:


> Do you mean the plastic spool and halo serving together weighed 1/4#? I thought 1/4# meant you get 1/4# of halo serving material.


Exactly. When I bought first two 1/4# spools, everything was OK (I don`t remember weight, but it was much more than 1/4). Third spool of black halo was twice thinner by eye, I weighed it (1/4#) then wrote to 60x. They said "So it came from BCY". I didn`t continue to correspond them, just decided that I don’t work with them anymore.


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## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> Exactly. When I bought first two 1/4# spools, everything was OK (I don`t remember weight, but it was much more than 1/4). Third spool of black halo was twice thinner by eye, I weighed it (1/4#) then wrote to 60x. They said "So it came from BCY". I didn`t continue to correspond them, just decided that I don’t work with them anymore.


Interesting. Was the packaging the same? I've never ordered a 1/4# spool of halo but I'd imagine it would be packaged from BCY with at least some plastic and label around it.


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## Rmdmooch

Who are you guys using for smaller spoils of serving. Like 2x or halo?


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## lab32

Huntinsker said:


> Interesting. Was the packaging the same? I've never ordered a 1/4# spool of halo but I'd imagine it would be packaged from BCY with at least some plastic and label around it.


I can`t order from directly from BCY, so I don’t know how they pack 1/4 spools. From 60x I don`t remember, everything seems to be without labels, just in plastic bags. Several months have passed.


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## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> I can`t order from directly from BCY, so I don’t know how they pack 1/4 spools. From 60x I don`t remember, everything seems to be without labels, just in plastic bags. Several months have passed.


The string material that I've ordered from 60x has always been factory spooled and packaged from BCY and has at least a label on it. 60x is just the dealer. I would think that for the bulk serving spools they'd do the same, just sell the prepackaged bulk spools from BCY. If they're just sending them in plastic bags without labels, chances are they're not factory packaged and are either spooled by 60x or are mostly used 1lbs spools that they order then use 3/4 of and sell the 1/4# that's left on the spool. Probably not the best way to ensure accurate quantities but that's all conjecture on my part. 

So before posting this, I asked some string builders about the packaging on 1/4# and 1# serving spools from BCY and they apparently come with labels or stickers on the bottom of the spool.


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## 138104

Received a spool of Bloodline VEC99 today. Man, that stuff is slick! Makes it a bit tough to work with. Decided to build with 22 strands since this seems to be thicker than 452x. I'll let you know how it turns out. The color is Florida Orange.


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## lab32

Huntinsker said:


> The string material that I've ordered from 60x has always been factory spooled and packaged from BCY and has at least a label on it. 60x is just the dealer. I would think that for the bulk serving spools they'd do the same, just sell the prepackaged bulk spools from BCY. If they're just sending them in plastic bags without labels, chances are they're not factory packaged and are either spooled by 60x or are mostly used 1lbs spools that they order then use 3/4 of and sell the 1/4# that's left on the spool. Probably not the best way to ensure accurate quantities but that's all conjecture on my part.
> 
> So before posting this, I asked some string builders about the packaging on 1/4# and 1# serving spools from BCY and they apparently come with labels or stickers on the bottom of the spool.


I personally think ensuring correct quantities is a supplier's problem. When the customer orders a bowstring i can't send him a bowstring without end serving and then say "so came from BCY". If i said so i would not want to deal with this customer and his friends.

Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> I personally think ensuring correct quantities is a supplier's problem. When the customer orders a bowstring i can't send him a bowstring without end serving and then say "so came from BCY". If i said so i would not want to deal with this customer and his friends.
> 
> Отправлено с моего T08 через Tapatalk


I agree.


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## 138104

Love the BCY gunmetal. Set I built for my son's E32.


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## automan26

I have always wanted to build flo yellow strings for a bow of that color. Those colors look awesome together. Good work.

Automan


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## 138104

automan26 said:


> I have always wanted to build flo yellow strings for a bow of that color. Those colors look awesome together. Good work.
> 
> Automan


Thank you! I owe it all to you and Huntinsker. Never would have tried building them if it wasn't for this thread.


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## Huntinsker

Those look really sharp on that bow. Must have nailed your lengths too because the twist rates are spot on from piece to piece. Well done.


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> Those look really sharp on that bow. Must have nailed your lengths too because the twist rates are spot on from piece to piece. Well done.


Thank you for the compliment. I was pleased with how they turned out too.

This is my first set in Bloodline VEC99. These will glow in the dark!


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## 138104

I haven't measured tension on my serving jig, but is there a point where the tension is too high? Let's assume that the string isn't twisting as I am serving.


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## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> I haven't measured tension on my serving jig, but is there a point where the tension is too high? Let's assume that the string isn't twisting as I am serving.


I seem to have climbed higher and higher over the years. I have measured out where my jig hits 500lbs and I've been higher than that the last few sets I've made. I still use my string clamps while serving though. I also haven't done a single cam string at that tension because it'll cause too much flex in the strut, even though I have two bolted together.


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> I seem to have climbed higher and higher over the years. I have measured out where my jig hits 500lbs and I've been higher than that the last few sets I've made. I still use my string clamps while serving though. I also haven't done a single cam string at that tension because it'll cause too much flex in the strut, even though I have two bolted together.


Sorry, I think my post wasn't clear enough. I am taking about the tension on the serving jig, not the string. I serve at 400# and use string clamps. How high can I go tension-wise on the server? I've read anywhere from 5-10#, but is there a point of diminishing returns if I go higher?


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## nestly

Perry24 said:


> Sorry, I think my post wasn't clear enough. I am taking about the tension on the serving jig, not the string. I serve at 400# and use string clamps. How high can I go tension-wise on the server? I've read anywhere from 5-10#, but is there a point of diminishing returns if I go higher?


I serve at 10 pounds of payout tension on the serving jig for .014 Halo, only because I've suffered frequent breakages if I go to 11-12 pounds. I do center servings a little higher at 11-12 pounds (powergrip) Halo seems to have a fairly low breaking strength compared to similar sized servings such as BCY2X, 3D, PowerGrip, and Majestly.


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## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Sorry, I think my post wasn't clear enough. I am taking about the tension on the serving jig, not the string. I serve at 400# and use string clamps. How high can I go tension-wise on the server? I've read anywhere from 5-10#, but is there a point of diminishing returns if I go higher?





nestly said:


> I serve at 10 pounds of payout tension on the serving jig for .014 Halo, only because I've suffered frequent breakages if I go to 11-12 pounds. I do center servings a little higher at 11-12 pounds (powergrip) Halo seems to have a fairly low breaking strength compared to similar sized servings such as BCY2X, 3D, PowerGrip, and Majestly.


I've noticed the same thing as nestly about halo. I also do higher tension on the center serving. Personally, I've stopped measuring the tension on the jig and just go "by feel". I know how the jig feels going around the piece and I know how much rotation on the string will still yield a solid string with no peep rotation. If I were spinning the string like nestly does, I'd probably calibrate the jig tension.


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## lab32

nestly said:


> I serve at 10 pounds of payout tension on the serving jig for .014 Halo, only because I've suffered frequent breakages if I go to 11-12 pounds. I do center servings a little higher at 11-12 pounds (powergrip) Halo seems to have a fairly low breaking strength compared to similar sized servings such as BCY2X, 3D, PowerGrip, and Majestly.


I would like to clarify - if there are no visible defects on Halo, breaking this thread is much more difficult than Majesty or Powergrip. The problem is that these defects periodically occur in the form of knots and strand breaks. Usually I rewind the thread from a large spool to a small one, passing it through my fingers, protected by a thick layer of polyethylene. So you can find the knots. What to do with breaks, I still do not understand.


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## b0w_bender

Because I think a bunch of you fabulous string builders subscribed to this thread I wanted to point out that I've created a free downloadable template that you can use to build your own NWSpinner. Below is the thread I started explaining it.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5859699

The page on my website too.
http://nwspinner.com/index.php/nwspinner-diy


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## automan26

Thanx bOw bender. Your templates will be a great asset to the DIY guys here on this thread. Now it's possible to ramp up the spirit of DIY string building to another level. I personally know of several part time string business that this thread has spawned and I'm confident that your templates will give a few more the boost they need to advance even further.

Automan


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## FlyingWatchmake

b0w_bender said:


> Because I think a bunch of you fabulous string builders subscribed to this thread I wanted to point out that I've created a free downloadable template that you can use to build your own NWSpinner. Below is the thread I started explaining it.
> 
> https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5859699
> 
> The page on my website too.
> http://nwspinner.com/index.php/nwspinner-diy


Wow!, thank you very much for this... I use my spinner at least once a week, sometimes more... and now supplementing my income has become a bit more critical I hope to use it even more!

Conveniently laser cutting is one of the other toys I use to supplement my income too ;-) 

Thanks again!

Tom


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## 138104

I was really excited to try out Bloodline VEC99, but after serving a set, I'm not so sure. Whatever the coating is they use bled through the Halo end serving and the 62xs center serving. Thoughts?


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## Dustoff

It's not bleeding through. The pigment gets picked up while serving. Try burnishing the serving area before putting the serving on. That should help a lot.


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## 138104

Dustoff said:


> It's not bleeding through. The pigment gets picked up while serving. Try burnishing the serving area before putting the serving on. That should help a lot.


Thanks. I did burnish the strings, but will be a bit more aggressive in the areas to be served.


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## Dustoff

I've not tried the orange yet. Could have more pigment in it than the other colors I used.


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## Frank-the-5th

Finished a set for my cousins VXR a while ago and he just got them put. Super happy with how these came out.










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## mattafliving

Dustoff is right that it’s not bleed through, it’s one of the downsides to our coating, is it can get picked up by the serving. We are constantly working to refine the coating to reduce this from happening. There isn’t any additional pigment in the orange though. Aside from the coating getting picked up, those should be the best performing strings you have ever used. 


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## automan26

mattafliving said:


> Dustoff is right that it’s not bleed through, it’s one of the downsides to our coating, is it can get picked up by the serving. We are constantly working to refine the coating to reduce this from happening. There isn’t any additional pigment in the orange though. Aside from the coating getting picked up, those should be the best performing strings you have ever used.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would imagine that a stiff toothbrush would remove the coating from around the serving quite effectively. Also, what the brush might not pick up, shooting the string would take care of what remains. 

Automan


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## NC stringpuller

automan26 said:


> Also, what the brush might not pick up, shooting the string would take care of what remains.
> 
> Automan


I'm lurking this thread for possible future reference (I have enough irons in the fire as is) and have no dog in this fight, but would it then spatter the transferred color all over the rest, sight and riser? Would the flakes (or whatever form it takes) be sticky?


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## lab32

mattafliving said:


> Dustoff is right that it’s not bleed through, it’s one of the downsides to our coating, is it can get picked up by the serving. We are constantly working to refine the coating to reduce this from happening. There isn’t any additional pigment in the orange though. Aside from the coating getting picked up, those should be the best performing strings you have ever used.


The main reason I bought VEC99 a second time is that I found that the thread contains some ductile binder that can stick strands together. The problem is those threads that either do not give wax at all, or contain too much of it. At least for my building process, including burnishing. I would not say that your thread will absolutely outperform all others, but potentially it is very technological. By the way I currently use Rampage, Mercury, X99 and VEC99, gradually getting rid of BCY-X and 8190F, and I can build quality strings from any.


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## mattafliving

NC stringpuller said:


> I'm lurking this thread for possible future reference (I have enough irons in the fire as is) and have no dog in this fight, but would it then spatter the transferred color all over the rest, sight and riser? Would the flakes (or whatever form it takes) be sticky?


The Bloodline coating isn’t sticky at all. I wouldn’t imagine it sticking to anything. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

I've seen Angel Majesty in .015 recommended for cables that have tight bends. I am looking to buy some, but notice BCY sells it and a company called Angel sells it too. Are they the same material?


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## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> I've seen Angel Majesty in .015 recommended for cables that have tight bends. I am looking to buy some, but notice BCY sells it and a company called Angel sells it too. Are they the same material?


Angel Majesty is made by a company based out of Japan. 


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> Angel Majesty is made by a company based out of Japan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. So, do their spools fit serving jigs? They remind me of wooden sewing thread jigs.


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## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. So, do their spools fit serving jigs? They remind me of wooden seeing thread jigs.


As far as I know they do, I’ve never personally used angel..... shameless plug though, you should try some of our BOA serving, performs amazing it tight bends, and is also extremely abrasion resistant due to our coating. 


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## FlyingWatchmake

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. So, do their spools fit serving jigs? They remind me of wooden sewing thread jigs.


Depends on the serving jig, they don’t have the splines that the American spools do, they’re just a smooth bore... Beiter jigs supply 2 different fittings depending on which spoils you use..

T


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## 138104

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Depends on the serving jig, they don’t have the splines that the American spools do, they’re just a smooth bore... Beiter jigs supply 2 different fittings depending on which spoils you use..
> 
> T


Thanks. I do have the Beiter jigs, so will take a look in my bin.


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> As far as I know they do, I’ve never personally used angel..... shameless plug though, you should try some of our BOA serving, performs amazing it tight bends, and is also extremely abrasion resistant due to our coating.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How quick are you guys shipping? I am giving the VEC99 another shot, so would like to try the serving. If I ordered tomorrow morning, do you think I would have it by Friday or Saturday?

For this build, trying 20 strands to keep served area around .100. I burnished each bundle 4 times and then the twisted bundle 4 times. Hopefully, that will keep the coating from building up on my jig. How much tension should I run on the jig?


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## doulos

For those guys who buy serving material by the 1/4 spool. How are you transferring to jig spools? After searching on here all I can find is the posts showing spoolers that are used to transfer fishing line . Can this work with a 1/4 pound spool of Halo? Anyone try it?


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> For those guys who buy serving material by the 1/4 spool. How are you transferring to jig spools? After searching on here all I can find is the posts showing spoolers that are used to transfer fishing line . Can this work with a 1/4 pound spool of Halo? Anyone try it?


I just chuck a spool in my drill and hold the serving in a towel and run it on by hand. A little practice and you get pretty good and smooth with it.


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## doulos

Thanks. I just cant bring myself to pay for Halo by the jig spool anymore. I really like the stuff. By my gosh I feel like I should have some type of counseling every time I fork over that much money for a jig spool


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## nuthinbutnock

Perry24 said:


> How quick are you guys shipping? I am giving the VEC99 another shot, so would like to try the serving. If I ordered tomorrow morning, do you think I would have it by Friday or Saturday?
> 
> For this build, trying 20 strands to keep served area around .100. I burnished each bundle 4 times and then the twisted bundle 4 times. Hopefully, that will keep the coating from building up on my jig. How much tension should I run on the jig?


I’ve used vec99 for my last couple of strings. It’s been working really well and people are loving the strings 


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## nuthinbutnock

doulos said:


> For those guys who buy serving material by the 1/4 spool. How are you transferring to jig spools? After searching on here all I can find is the posts showing spoolers that are used to transfer fishing line . Can this work with a 1/4 pound spool of Halo? Anyone try it?


Specialty Archery has a spool winder. I do mine on a super server but the winder looks like it works well


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## lab32

Here`s my setup and knot that tells me to cut the thread and start another spool







__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## doulos

nuthinbutnock said:


> Specialty Archery has a spool winder. I do mine on a super server but the winder looks like it works well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, i saw it. Looks great. All their stuff is good. I just cant justify spending that much for how few strings I build


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## 138104

Here's my new to me Bowtech Reckoning with a set of Bloodline VEC99 strings on it. The serving speckled on me again due to the coating building up on my serving jig, but it actual looks good on the bow.


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## automan26

That orange looks awesome on that bow. Oddly enough, I just finished building an orange buss cable, sat down to relax and saw your post with orange strings. Good color choice.

Automan


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## 138104

automan26 said:


> That orange looks awesome on that bow. Oddly enough, I just finished building an orange buss cable, sat down to relax and saw your post with orange strings. Good color choice.
> 
> Automan


I try to get away from flo orange, but always come back! I just love how it stands out.

The back of my riser looks like it was splattered with paint as the coating is coming off the serving with each shot. I really like the Bloodline material, but not worth the hassle if I can't figure out how to keep the coating from building up in my jig. Does anyone have any suggestions?


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## Richardi503

So much information. makes for some good reading during these times.


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## Woody64

Hey guys really love this thread been following for a while now built myself a jig using the information on here. I’ve since graduated to BAP jig and been putting out some great strings Now I’m going to do a recurve string for the first time just wondering what material your using for the string and serving and is the build process the same as a compound? Thanks in advance 


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## b0w_bender

Woody64 said:


> Hey guys really love this thread been following for a while now built myself a jig using the information on here. I’ve since graduated to BAP jig and been putting out some great strings Now I’m going to do a recurve string for the first time just wondering what material your using for the string and serving and is the build process the same as a compound? Thanks in advance


Like so much in archery the answer is "It depends" 

If your recurve is of modern design with re-enforced tips built for the modern stretchless fibers, then you can use the same material you would for a compound. However if this is a legacy recurve then it is possible that the modern fibers can actually damage the limb tips causing them to crack or break. So... ya it depends on the recurve. 

The older recurves I believe the stretchy stuff is B50 but if it isn't I'm sure someone will correct me. The stretch fibers put a lot less strain on the limb tips.

As far as the build process goes there isn't any concern about peep rotation so it is a lot more forgiving. Number of twists per inch are not nearly as crucial because recurve shooters twist their strings back and forth to get their brace height exactly the same every time. Depending on the recurve and the environmental differences that can change from day to day. So don't ulcerate over the number of twists. Generally the loop ends are bigger to accommodate the recurve limb tips and make the top loop of the string big enough to slide down the limb when it is unstrung. If you used to making compound strings recurves are a bit of a yawn to make.


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## Huntinsker

Woody64 said:


> Hey guys really love this thread been following for a while now built myself a jig using the information on here. I’ve since graduated to BAP jig and been putting out some great strings Now I’m going to do a recurve string for the first time just wondering what material your using for the string and serving and is the build process the same as a compound? Thanks in advance
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like b0w_bender said, it depends. I use D97 and 8125 for modern recurves. For my selfbows and old stuff, I use B55. For serving, I use .018 62xs for loops and ends. I use it for center as well but the nock and bundle size determines the diameter. I have .018, .021 and .025". 

Most recurve string builders will wait until after serving to twist their strings and they don't pre-stretch like compound builders will. I personally build my recurve strings just like a compound string. I know the length I want and build to that length. The strings get pre-stretched to a couple hundred pounds, relaxed, stretched and served. IMO, there's no good reason not to ensure the string has "hit bottom" before it goes on the bow. 

If you're doing a "skinny" string, you might need to pad the loops with a couple more strands of material to build them up so they're not too hard on the limb tips. There are a few considerations like that that you'll pick up in researching or building but really, they're pretty similar, at least the way I build them.


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## reddogjack

thanks for sharing


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## Woody64

Thanks guys for all your help I really appreciate it not only for this string but the many you’ve help me create this is a great thread with many knowledgeable people 


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## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> I try to get away from flo orange, but always come back! I just love how it stands out.
> 
> The back of my riser looks like it was splattered with paint as the coating is coming off the serving with each shot. I really like the Bloodline material, but not worth the hassle if I can't figure out how to keep the coating from building up in my jig. Does anyone have any suggestions?


We sent you out another spool, one that hopefully doesn’t have them same buildup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> We sent you out another spool, one that hopefully doesn’t have them same buildup.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you! I'll let you know how it works out. So far, the set I built is working out great.


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## gdubbmx

Working on building a new string and cable set for a friend's rx3. Hoyt tune chart calls for the ends of the buss cable to be served. I usually just do tag ends on my string/cables. Is it really necessary to serve those ends? Anyone done tag ends and been ok/had issues? Thanks fellas.


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## lab32

Tags will be ok I,m sure

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## 138104

I tag serve my yoke ends and no issues.


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## b0w_bender

gdubbmx said:


> Is it really necessary to serve those ends?


A lot of people use the yokes to tune and fiddle with their cam lean, so they get a bit more on and off the peg. I suppose there could be an argument that served ends might be more durable? I think tag or served would be fine.


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## gdubbmx

Thanks guys. It's the only cable that specifically called for loops to be served so thought I'd ask. I havent served loops once on any of my bows and have had no issues, even with taking off and on for tuning. Tags it is lol. Thanks again guys.


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## PowerLineman83

gdubbmx said:


> Thanks guys. It's the only cable that specifically called for loops to be served so thought I'd ask. I havent served loops once on any of my bows and have had no issues, even with taking off and on for tuning. Tags it is lol. Thanks again guys.


They spell out what to use as a release of liability so to speak. If the bow fails at all and it has strings on it NOT built to their spec, it’s an out for Hoyt. They say flat out to replace strings with ONLY Fuse strings! [emoji849][emoji28]

You’re in the right track, do your thing! [emoji6][emoji41][emoji1690]


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## doulos

gdubbmx said:


> Working on building a new string and cable set for a friend's rx3. Hoyt tune chart calls for the ends of the buss cable to be served. I usually just do tag ends on my string/cables. Is it really necessary to serve those ends? Anyone done tag ends and been ok/had issues? Thanks fellas.


I use tag ends on the 3 bows I own with a buss cable. And Ive had these on and off during tuning quite a bit. No problems. I think the key is making the loop big enough so they come off easily when you press the bow.


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## CKCECB

I'm going to try building my own string & cable sets. I have the jig now (thanks Automan!) and already have a serving tool and center serving thread. I'm going to buy a spool of string material and see they offer it in 1/8 pound and 1/4 pound sizes. How many string & cable sets would I get out of 1/8 pound (assuming 30" ATA twin cam yoke system). I realize that 1/4 pound drives the price per foot down, but I also realize that stuff breaks down in storage.

Thank you,
Chris


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## SamT

CKCECB said:


> I'm going to try building my own string & cable sets. I have the jig now (thanks Automan!) and already have a serving tool and center serving thread. I'm going to buy a spool of string material and see they offer it in 1/8 pound and 1/4 pound sizes. How many string & cable sets would I get out of 1/8 pound (assuming 30" ATA twin cam yoke system). I realize that 1/4 pound drives the price per foot down, but I also realize that stuff breaks down in storage.
> 
> Thank you,
> Chris


Heres a rough calculation: 

Let's assume you're going to use Mercury for your string. According to BCY's website, a pound of Mercury has approximately 13,000 ft. Therefore, 13,000 ÷ 8 = 1,623 ft for a 1/8 lb spool. Continuing, you state that your bow is 30" ATA twin cam yoke system (I have no idea what that means, but I'm sure others here do but let's continue with a rough guesstimate). Assuming that you're going to make a 20 strand string, and assuming that the wrap around each cam is 10", you get 30" + 10" + 10" = 50" of string length. (Roughly) so, 20 strands × 50" = 1000" of material which is a little over 83 ft. Rounding up to 90ft, ...1,625 ÷ 90 = 18 total strings.

To get a more accurate estimate we'd need to know the bow model and look at the string and cable specs.

I've never heard that string and serving materials break down over time. Maybe others have and can comment on that. 

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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> Heres a rough calculation:
> 
> Let's assume you're going to use Mercury for your string. According to BCY's website, a pound of Mercury has approximately 13,000 ft. Therefore, 13,000 ÷ 8 = 1,623 ft for a 1/8 lb spool. Continuing, you state that your bow is 30" ATA twin cam yoke system (I have no idea what that means, but I'm sure others here do but let's continue with a rough guesstimate). Assuming that you're going to make a 20 strand string, and assuming that the wrap around each cam is 10", you get 30" + 10" + 10" = 50" of string length. (Roughly) so, 20 strands × 50" = 1000" of material which is a little over 83 ft. Rounding up to 90ft, ...1,625 ÷ 90 = 18 total strings.
> 
> To get a more accurate estimate we'd need to know the bow model and look at the string and cable specs.
> 
> I've never heard that string and serving materials break down over time. Maybe others have and can comment on that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


Decrease that number by 1/3 again because with Mercury, strand counts are around 30 instead of 20. This is a good way to get a rough estimate on how many sets you can get from one spool though. Figure out the total length of string/cables you'll need, multiply that by the number of strands, divide that into the number of feet per spool and you'll have a good estimate. Account for a little waste, throw away string/cables if you screw something up in the beginning and you'll probably end up getting a handful sets out of 1/8lb spool when it's all said and done.


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## CKCECB

Thank you for the rough estimate planning factors. I wasn't able to find length per pound data, must not have lookedinthe correct place. This will help me with my first string material order.


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## Huntinsker

CKCECB said:


> Thank you for the rough estimate planning factors. I wasn't able to find length per pound data, must not have lookedinthe correct place. This will help me with my first string material order.


BCY and Bloodline list the number of feet per pound on the description of the material. Brownell doesn't on their new website but they aren't selling right now anyway.


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## SamT

Huntinsker said:


> Decrease that number by 1/3 again because with Mercury, strand counts are around 30 instead of 20...



Is this increase in Mercury strands mainly needed for finished diameters? 



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## lab32

You definitely need 28 (as minimum) - 34 strands for compoung bowstrings

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## mattafliving

SamT said:


> Is this increase in Mercury strands mainly needed for finished diameters?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Yes. That’s exactly why. 


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## Huntinsker

SamT said:


> Is this increase in Mercury strands mainly needed for finished diameters?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


That and stability. 20 strands of Mercury would be an awfully small string or cable. You could use larger serving to make up for it but you'd be giving up a lot in stability with so few strands.


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## SamT

Ah, let me back up just a bit. In my example of 20 strands was for the method of calculation and not necessarily for an actual build. Sorry for my confusing someone.

And my question about needing 30 stands for finished diameters or for strength probably didn't help too much.

So, let me ask differently. If you were building a 452X string using 24 or 26 strands, would you still use 24 or 26 strands of Mercury? Or would you use more? It us my understanding that the tensile strength of the two are similar even though one is a blend and the other is not. 

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## 138104

SamT said:


> Ah, let me back up just a bit. In my example of 20 strands was for the method of calculation and not necessarily for an actual build. Sorry for my confusing someone.
> 
> And my question about needing 30 stands for finished diameters or for strength probably didn't help too much.
> 
> So, let me ask differently. If you were building a 452X string using 24 or 26 strands, would you still use 24 or 26 strands of Mercury? Or would you use more? It us my understanding that the tensile strength of the two are similar even though one is a blend and the other is not.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I'd use 24 strands of 452x and 32 of mercury to get similar finished diameters.

For Bloodline VEC99, I'd use 20 strands.


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## lab32

As for me, 22*452x = 24* BcyX = 24*Vec99 = 34*Mercury/Rampage = 28 * X99. +/-Depending on colors of course

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## 138104

lab32 said:


> As for me, 22*452x = 24* BcyX = 24*Vec99 = 34*Mercury/Rampage = 28 * X99. +/-Depending on colors of course
> 
> Отправлено с моего SM-N960F через Tapatalk


What twist rate are you using? With the roll of VEC99 (flo orange) I have, I can only go 20 strands to keep finished diameter at .103". I use a twist rate of .67.


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## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> What twist rate are you using? With the roll of VEC99 (flo orange) I have, I can only go 20 strands to keep finished diameter at .103". I use a twist rate of .67.


I think that spool of orange you received was over coated, and that’s why your finished diameter is so much larger, also why you have that excess coating coming through the serving like it was. 


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> I think that spool of orange you received was over coated, and that’s why your finished diameter is so much larger, also why you have that excess coating coming through the serving like it was.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Did the replacement ship yet?


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## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. Did the replacement ship yet?


It should have, I’ll double check. 


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## lab32

Perry24 said:


> What twist rate are you using? With the roll of VEC99 (flo orange) I have, I can only go 20 strands to keep finished diameter at .103". I use a twist rate of .67.


I use 1 tw/in for strings and .88 for cables but that doesn`t matter cause I use almost the same twist rate for all materials. If you got a spool with a high <<"WAX">> content, just dewax it to get to desired finished diameters. Some colors and materials require more dewaxing, others less.


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## 138104

lab32 said:


> I use 1 tw/in for strings and .88 for cables but that doesn`t matter cause I use almost the same twist rate for all materials. If you got a spool with a high <<"WAX">> content, just dewax it to get to desired finished diameters. Some colors and materials require more dewaxing, others less.


Please bear with me and if this is a stupid question, be kind. 

If you were building a 39" string, you'd put 39 twists in the string? On a cable, you'd put 34 twists in a 39" cable? If that part is correct, what is your length variable?


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## automan26

Target length X .75= #of twists
Twists X .012 + Target length = Initial jig post setting.

39 X .75= 29 twists
29 X .012= .348
.348 + 39= 39.348" initial post setting (39 11/32)
Build the cable adding 29 twists and you will be within a few twists of your target length.

Some materials twist up a bit shorter, but this is a good formula for starts.

Automan


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## 138104

automan26 said:


> Target length X .75= #of twists
> Twists X .012 + Target length = Initial jig post setting.
> 
> 39 X .75= 29 twists
> 29 X .012= .348
> .348 + 39= 39.348" initial post setting (39 11/32)
> Build the cable adding 29 twists and you will be within a few twists of your target length.
> 
> Some materials twist up a bit shorter, but this is a good formula for starts.
> 
> Automan


I've used that formula, but currently use BAP's spreadsheet after correcting one of the formulas.

Why do you use the # of twists instead of the finished length to get the initial post setting?


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## lab32

Perry24 said:


> Please bear with me and if this is a stupid question, be kind.
> 
> If you were building a 39" string, you'd put 39 twists in the string? On a cable, you'd put 34 twists in a 39" cable? If that part is correct, what is your length variable?


That's correct, roughly speaking. I use long formula based on thread thickness, strand count and desirable twist rate. So there's no constant coefficient, it varies from 1.011 to 1.014.

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## 138104

lab32 said:


> That's correct, roughly speaking. I use long formula based on thread thickness, strand count and desirable twist rate. So there's no constant coefficient, it varies from 1.011 to 1.014.
> 
> Отправлено с моего SM-N960F через Tapatalk


Do you have any pictures of a 2 colored string you've built using that twist rate? I am curious to how it looks.


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## automan26

If you set your posts to the finished length then add twists you will come up short. You have to factor in how much the twisting process will shorten the string, then add that amount to your initial post setting so that after twisting shortens the string, you will be close to the finished length you are shooting for.

Automan


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## mattafliving

Perry24 I suggest trying out the build calculator on the bloodline website. It’s based off of my formula. If you like it, I can send you my modified BAP excel sheet, so you don’t have to go online every time. 


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## 138104

mattafliving said:


> Perry24 I suggest trying out the build calculator on the bloodline website. It’s based off of my formula. If you like it, I can send you my modified BAP excel sheet, so you don’t have to go online every time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. I believe your formula is a twist rate of .67 and length variable of 1.0075. I can adjust my BAP spreadsheet to that. I used the BAP formulas when I built my Reckoning set using VEC99, but will try your formula for my next set. 

Did you find out if that replacement shipped? If this new roll works out better, I want to sell off my BCY and buy some VEC99. Other than the coating build up on the jig, this VEC99 has held up great! No creep since they were installed and I probably have close to a 1,000 shots on them.


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## mattafliving

Perry24 said:


> Thank you. I believe your formula is a twist rate of .67 and length variable of 1.0075. I can adjust my BAP spreadsheet to that. I used the BAP formulas when I built my Reckoning set using VEC99, but will try your formula for my next set.
> 
> Did you find out if that replacement shipped? If this new roll works out better, I want to sell off my BCY and buy some VEC99. Other than the coating build up on the jig, this VEC99 has held up great! No creep since they were installed and I probably have close to a 1,000 shots on them.


Actually, we mistakenly sent the replacement spool to another builder. You’ll see an email shortly with the replacement order for you. 


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## lab32

Perry24 said:


> Do you have any pictures of a 2 colored string you've built using that twist rate? I am curious to how it looks.


https://www.instagram.com/p/B_DMt-cDaDo/?igshid=1iurcmsnhx7nb
https://vk.com/photo242496526_457240744
https://vk.com/photo242496526_457240953
I'm not sure how to add photos via tapatalk, sorry

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## lab32

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_DMt-cDaDo/?igshid=1rtgc28a7z8es

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## JF from VA

Quick question to the group. When replacing a center serving, would it be better to take the string off the bow and replace the serving on the jig, or leave it on the bow?


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## 138104

JF from VA said:


> Quick question to the group. When replacing a center serving, would it be better to take the string off the bow and replace the serving on the jig, or leave it on the bow?


It would be best to take it off. That way, you can serve with the string under a higher tension then it would be on the bow.


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## Huntinsker

JF from VA said:


> Quick question to the group. When replacing a center serving, would it be better to take the string off the bow and replace the serving on the jig, or leave it on the bow?





Perry24 said:


> It would be best to take it off. That way, you can serve with the string under a higher tension then it would be on the bow.


Yep. Take the peep out though. Under high tension, some will flatten from the pressure.


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## automan26

I made a small correction to the Jig and String Building tutorial, so here is the new link. You may need to download the Dropbox app first.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mpqfenqq58f9t7/El-Cheap-O 5.2a.ppsx?dl=0

Automan


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## fgignac

automan26 said:


> I made a small correction to the Jig and String Building tutorial, so here is the new link. You may need to download the Dropbox app first.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mpqfenqq58f9t7/El-Cheap-O 5.2a.ppsx?dl=0
> 
> Automan


Thanks automan.

I'm looking forward to stores opening back up so I can gather the materials to build this. I'm really jazzed about the idea of making my own strings


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## Starlab

That was cool, Thank you for the detailed info!


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## rapids

Perry24 said:


> I've seen Angel Majesty in .015 recommended for cables that have tight bends. I am looking to buy some, but notice BCY sells it and a company called Angel sells it too. Are they the same material?


I shoot an Elite E35 and use the Angel Majesty .015 for my cable & string end servings when building my threads. And yes, they do fit on my Beiter serving tool.....you just have to use the other spool adapters that come with the Beiter. The picture shows the bend from one of my cables......built these threads back in December 2018 and they are still going strong with no separations on any of my cables or string.


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## 138104

Looks great! Where do you buy it from?


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## rapids

Perry24 said:


> Looks great! Where do you buy it from?


I bought it from Lancaster Archery. Just bought some more a couple of weeks ago.....shipped the next day and had it shortly after. Great turn-a-round time.


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## olliedog

Hi Everyone - I've got a question about the proper way to measure the finished length of a buss cable. Please excuse me if this has been covered already.

When building a buss cable (up until now) I would lay out two string bundles then use the tag ends to close each bundle at the top (creating the loops for each yoke leg) and use some extra string material to make a single loop at the bottom end. After that I would stretch and twist as I would if building a control cable or string. Next step is serve the bottom loop and serve the Yoke split. 
Here is where my question comes in - at this point I would typically take tension off the jig, unwrap one yoke leg take it off the post. I'd serve the yoke loop on the post, then swap out legs on the post and serve the final yoke loop. Then take a string length after adding twists to each leg. 

I realized recently that I could take a finished length right before I unwound each leg from the main bundle to serve the loops. This realization may have come after building a few buss cables that always seemed to miss the A2A I was shooting for and needed a few twists after installation. I started to wonder if I had/have a poor understanding of how a buss cable is measured (A) All twisted up like a candy cane from end to end, of (B) with the legs separated and twisted independently then put back on the stretcher (where they then sort of spin back up together).

Yeah - this question could use a few pictures but.... Just wondering, not an end of the world question. Now my cam sync and nock high tear is becoming an end of the world problem for me. If I don't fix it soon I'm going freak. We don't need another hybrid cam tuning thread though so I'll keep re-reading the dozens that are out there! And slowly go mad...

Best, Chris


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## automan26

Before measuring the final length, I untwist the yoke legs, counting the number of twists to completely separate both yoke legs. Next, I add the same number of twists to each individual yoke leg that it took to separate them, stretch to 100# and make my final adjustment by adding or removing twists to the main section of the cable.

Automan


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## olliedog

Thanks!

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## roberto94

It is recommend the angel majesty string material to make compound bow strings? I use it normally for recurve strings but have this doubt in the back of my mind


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## deerhunter81

Someone is about to build 2 of these jigs, McMaster Carr has everything you need, except unistrut I will get that locally!


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## rapids

Looks like someone is about to have some fun.........good luck!! Just finished a set of threads yesterday and will start on my first pinstripe threads tomorrow.


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## bowbrothersmdb

roberto94 said:


> It is recommend the angel majesty string material to make compound bow strings? I use it normally for recurve strings but have this doubt in the back of my mind


As far as I know Angel Majesty is 100% Dyneema so it will have some stretch which is why we use it for recurves. If you have nothing else it will work but not ideal.


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## FlyingWatchmake

roberto94 said:


> It is recommend the angel majesty string material to make compound bow strings? I use it normally for recurve strings but have this doubt in the back of my mind


I’ve made a couple of sets, and they shot beautifully, but definitely not a temperature stable string, and will need adjusting to different conditions... fine for a pure indoor setup, but not good if you change distances at all... 

Also cost per metre of bowstring is painful compared to the established standard compound materials..

Tom


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## rapids

Have been making my own compound threads for a little over two years now. Learned this addiction mostly by reading the vast information from this thread on this DIY Forum. Really appreciate the vast amount of time and energy from Huntinsker, automan26, and a bunch of other string makers here. Was originally building my strings on my own homemade equipment, but two weeks ago I finally bit the bullet and bought a BAP stretcher Assembly. Have been practicing with it and finally decided to try my first threads ever with pinstripes. I have an Elite E35 and am making my string/cables out of 8190, as I have a bunch left over from my traditional Flemish twist days. Here are a couple of pictures so far of my work in progress......22 strands with a layout of
9-4-9, and decided to close the loops on this set before serving. Hope everyone is doing well in these difficult times!


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## deerhunter81

Looks good, nice work! Yes, these guys deserve a huge thank you! 


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## Huntinsker

olliedog said:


> Hi Everyone - I've got a question about the proper way to measure the finished length of a buss cable. Please excuse me if this has been covered already.
> 
> When building a buss cable (up until now) I would lay out two string bundles then use the tag ends to close each bundle at the top (creating the loops for each yoke leg) and use some extra string material to make a single loop at the bottom end. After that I would stretch and twist as I would if building a control cable or string. Next step is serve the bottom loop and serve the Yoke split.
> Here is where my question comes in - at this point I would typically take tension off the jig, unwrap one yoke leg take it off the post. I'd serve the yoke loop on the post, then swap out legs on the post and serve the final yoke loop. Then take a string length after adding twists to each leg.
> 
> I realized recently that I could take a finished length right before I unwound each leg from the main bundle to serve the loops. This realization may have come after building a few buss cables that always seemed to miss the A2A I was shooting for and needed a few twists after installation. I started to wonder if I had/have a poor understanding of how a buss cable is measured (A) All twisted up like a candy cane from end to end, of (B) with the legs separated and twisted independently then put back on the stretcher (where they then sort of spin back up together).
> 
> Yeah - this question could use a few pictures but.... Just wondering, not an end of the world question. Now my cam sync and nock high tear is becoming an end of the world problem for me. If I don't fix it soon I'm going freak. We don't need another hybrid cam tuning thread though so I'll keep re-reading the dozens that are out there! And slowly go mad...
> 
> Best, Chris


I wouldn't measure for final length during the serving process. That may yield inconsistent results depending on how long you have it at tension for serving and how long you waited to let it relax before serving the yoke loops. The difference that you're seeing in length compared to what you want is from unwinding the yoke legs from around each other. When they're wrapped around each other, the total length is shorter than after you unwrap them. To compensate for that, I'll add 3 twists to each leg after unwrapping them from each other and before serving the yoke loop end. 

So I take one leg off the post, twist 3 times and hook it out of the way. Take the other off the post, twist 3 times, put it back on, tension a little, serve it, relax it, replace with the other, tension a little, serve it, relax it, put the other back on the post, tension to 250lbs or so for about 5 minutes to equalize the bundles and then relax it for at least an hour before taking the final measurement.


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## lab32

Well, last week I received another batch of vec99 and 1/2 lbs of BOA serving, black and white. 

BOA has coating, by feel the same as vec99 coating. Static friction is fairly high. Kinetic friction is fairly low.
Finished string diameter is about 0.002" - 0.003" less than with halo .014 or majesty .015. 
"Serving density" or amount of twists per inch is slightly higher than halo .014 but slightly less than majesty .015.
White is not so clear than halo .014. Just a bit more milky.
I`ll send a set to my mate. He shoots a lot his Vertix 30"-75# .His bow chews cables pretty quick, so soon I can say how BOA holds compared to Majesty. I`ll also test it in my Insanity CPX 30"-80#, although I don’t have the opportunity to shoot every day.

New spools of vec99 definitely have a lot of binder that can be partially removed by burnishing. My opinion: it`s rather good than bad.

I apologize - these pics are not the peak of aesthetics, but that is not the goal.


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## 138104

lab32 said:


> Well, last week I received another batch of vec99 and 1/2 lbs of BOA serving, black and white.
> 
> BOA has coating, by feel the same as vec99 coating. Static friction is fairly high. Kinetic friction is fairly low.
> Finished string diameter is about 0.002" - 0.003" less than with halo .014 or majesty .015.
> "Serving density" or amount of twists per inch is slightly higher than halo .014 but slightly less than majesty .015.
> White is not so clear than halo .014. Just a bit more milky.
> I`ll send a set to my mate. He shoots a lot his Vertix 30"-75# .His bow chews cables pretty quick, so soon I can say how BOA holds compared to Majesty. I`ll also test it in my Insanity CPX 30"-80#, although I don’t have the opportunity to shoot every day.
> 
> New spools of vec99 definitely have a lot of binder that can be partially removed by burnishing. My opinion: it`s rather good than bad.
> 
> I apologize - these pics are not the peak of aesthetics, but that is not the goal.
> View attachment 7149947
> 
> View attachment 7149949
> 
> View attachment 7149951


Good information. Thank you for posting it. Did the binder get pulled into your serving like this?


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## lab32

Perry24 said:


> Good information. Thank you for posting it. Did the binder get pulled into your serving like this?


Yes, you can see it in my pics. After hard burnishing, a bit.

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## BowBaker1640

mattafliving said:


> Things are about to take a lot less time!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


what are the specs on these air cylinders? thanks


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## Bownut400

BowBaker1640 said:


> what are the specs on these air cylinders? thanks


I believe Matt uses 2" x 6" cylinders.


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## TAArrowood

Tagged


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## b0w_bender

Nice work there BAP!


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## 65mustang13

Great job! Thanks for sharing


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## doulos

BCY Trophy? What is the story about it? Lancaster cant give it away for more than 40% off. I know 452 added Gore. I know its discontinued. And I know pro builders aren't interested. But Im wondering why a lot of hobby builders aren't buying it. Conversely discontinued BCYX is much harder to find. 
Does everybody dislike this material even for those prices? Any issues with it? Not much info here when searching.


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## 138104

doulos said:


> BCY Trophy? What is the story about it? Lancaster cant give it away for more than 40% off. I know 452 added Gore. I know its discontinued. And I know pro builders aren't interested. But Im wondering why a lot of hobby builders aren't buying it. Conversely discontinued BCYX is much harder to find.
> Does everybody dislike this material even for those prices? Any issues with it? Not much info here when searching.


Actually, the few strings I built with Trophy turned out great! I didn't realize they were blowing it out at 40% off. I might buy some!


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## JF from VA

I have used Trophy for strings and had no problems. Just FYI, 60X offers limited colors in BCY X: https://www.60xcustomstrings.com/bcy-x-bow-string-material/


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## rapids

Just finished my first pinstripe threads......22 strands laid out 9 black/9 red/4 tan (9-4-9). Now, the question I have is where do you install the peep sight as I have never used a pinstripe string before? Maybe overthinking this, but just want to be sure.


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## Jabr357

*RX4 18" split yoke cable*

Good morning everyone. 

Building a new set of strings for my new Hoyt RX4 Alpha. 

Does anyone know how many strands the 18" split buss (yoke) cable circled in the pic is made of? it does not specify in the specs but it appears to be half the size of the 24 strand control cable - 12 on each side? Thanks.


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## JF from VA

rapids;Now said:


> 7153849[/ATTACH]


As long as you put an even number of strands on either side of the peep, you should be OK.


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## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> Just finished my first pinstripe threads......22 strands laid out 9 black/9 red/4 tan (9-4-9). Now, the question I have is where do you install the peep sight as I have never used a pinstripe string before? Maybe overthinking this, but just want to be sure.
> 
> View attachment 7153849


I've installed them in the "true middle" where you have even numbers of all 3 colors on each side, imagine it going between the sides of the bundle while it's still on the jig, and I've split the primary colors with half the pinstripe color on each side. The results have been the same with either. If the build's right, the peep will be too if you get even number of strands on each side.


----------



## Huntinsker

Jabr357 said:


> Good morning everyone.
> 
> Building a new set of strings for my new Hoyt RX4 Alpha.
> 
> Does anyone know how many strands the 18" split buss (yoke) cable circled in the pic is made of? it does not specify in the specs but it appears to be half the size of the 24 strand control cable - 12 on each side? Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 7154833


If you have the bow you could always count them but it also depends on the material you're going to use. Best thing would be to measure diameters and try to match that. I have heard of several builders using 18-20 strands of X99 on them but I'm not sure how that translates to other materials. Probably 12-14 of 452x.


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## Jabr357

Huntinsker said:


> If you have the bow you could always count them but it also depends on the material you're going to use. Best thing would be to measure diameters and try to match that. I have heard of several builders using 18-20 strands of X99 on them but I'm not sure how that translates to other materials. Probably 12-14 of 452x.


Thanks. I know the control cable and main buss cable are 24 strands, I believe 452X. Measuring the diameter of the 18" yoke cable is good advise - it has to fit snugly in the splitter thingy so cannot be too thick.

I will take it off to count the strands as a last resort. Thanks.


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## rapids

Huntinsker said:


> I've installed them in the "true middle" where you have even numbers of all 3 colors on each side, imagine it going between the sides of the bundle while it's still on the jig, and I've split the primary colors with half the pinstripe color on each side. The results have been the same with either. If the build's right, the peep will be too if you get even number of strands on each side.


Here’s a practice 22 strand string I built with the same layout, 9-4-9. I split the pinstripe between the main red and black so there are 11 strands on each side. Is this what you are referring to?

Also, thanks for your response JF from VA. Not sure how to do a double “reply with quote” in the same post.


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## rapids

Huntinsker said:


> I've installed them in the "true middle" where you have even numbers of all 3 colors on each side, imagine it going between the sides of the bundle while it's still on the jig, and I've split the primary colors with half the pinstripe color on each side. The results have been the same with either. If the build's right, the peep will be too if you get even number of strands on each side.



Here is a better example. Photo 1, I actually split the 2 strand yellow pin between the red and black. Photo 2, I kept the 2 strand yellow pins together so there are still 11 strands in each bundle - 9 black with 2 yellow, and 9 red with 2 yellow. So, which one would you use?


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## Jabr357

Jabr357 said:


> Thanks. I know the control cable and main buss cable are 24 strands, I believe 452X. Measuring the diameter of the 18" yoke cable is good advise - it has to fit snugly in the splitter thingy so cannot be too thick.
> 
> I will take it off to count the strands as a last resort. Thanks.


Well I put the bow in the press and counted the number of strands. The string, cable and buss cables are all 28 strands and the yoke legs 14 on each side. I believe the material is BCy X but seems to fuss an awful lot , making me think it is 452X.


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## 138104

Jabr357 said:


> Well I put the bow in the press and counted the number of strands. The string, cable and buss cables are all 28 strands and the yoke legs 14 on each side. I believe the material is BCy X but seems to fuss an awful lot , making me think it is 452X.


It must be X or X99. No way they would use 28 strands of 452x. That cable would be thick!


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## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> Here is a better example. Photo 1, I actually split the 2 strand yellow pin between the red and black. Photo 2, I kept the 2 strand yellow pins together so there are still 11 strands in each bundle - 9 black with 2 yellow, and 9 red with 2 yellow. So, which one would you use?
> 
> 
> View attachment 7154955
> 
> 
> View attachment 7154957


Yes that's what I'm talking about but the "true middle" would have half the black and red on each side as well. So if you imagine when you have your string laid out on the jig, before twisting, if you put a separator down between the right/left sides of the bundles, you'd have half the material on one side and half the other but it would have half of each color. That's the "true middle". You can also put a peep there.


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## Gene1

As mention above, I install a middle thread for the loop and for one thread for each color on each side of the middle thread loop you want to separate the colors before you twist your strings.

This way you can run the thread up and down the string to group your color strands together.


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## rapids

Huntinsker said:


> Yes that's what I'm talking about but the "true middle" would have half the black and red on each side as well. So if you imagine when you have your string laid out on the jig, before twisting, if you put a separator down between the right/left sides of the bundles, you'd have half the material on one side and half the other but it would have half of each color. That's the "true middle". You can also put a peep there.


Is see what you are saying about the true middle. So in this case, since there is 9 red and 9 black, one side of the true middle would actually be 5 red, 4 black, 2 yellow for 11 strands and the other side would be 4 red, 5 black, 2 yellow for 11 strands = 22. And yes, doing it this way it would be easiest to split the halves if you put a extra piece of string between the bundles before twisting......thanks.


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## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> Is see what you are saying about the true middle. So in this case, since there is 9 red and 9 black, one side of the true middle would actually be 5 red, 4 black, 2 yellow for 11 strands and the other side would be 4 red, 5 black, 2 yellow for 11 strands = 22. And yes, doing it this way it would be easiest to split the halves if you put a extra piece of string between the bundles before twisting......thanks.


Exactly


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## rapids

Huntinsker said:


> Exactly


Thanks for the help!


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## Jabr357

nestly said:


> My math says the split buss with 9.25 yoke legs would have to be .029" shorter than the same buss with 7.25" yoke legs assuming a yoke width of 2.75". That's just under 1/32", so only about 1 twist on a cable that length, so not enough to worry about.
> 
> The only time I do folded split yokes is for the new Hoyts with the lower buss yoke. *For those, you twist before you fold so you'd have to apply the twist reduction to the whole unfolded length*, which would work out like pictured below (for me). If you're twisting after folding, then perhaps your numbers are correct... someone else can verify those as I haven't built that way.


Hi guys. Wanted to follow up on this post (6703). I am building an RX4 Hoyt split buss cable and having some problems how to do this.

On this cable, there is the lower section that is about 3" of twisted cable that is served at the bottom at the cable splitter. Most of the cable is then served right up to the yoke legs.

My question is how to twist and fold this cable. Nestly above says to twist it first, then fold it.

So, after doing this, is it twisted again for the part that is under the serving? or is it served separated with 2 separate "legs"? 

Thanks


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## Huntinsker

Jabr357 said:


> Hi guys. Wanted to follow up on this post (6703). I am building an RX4 Hoyt split buss cable and having some problems how to do this.
> 
> On this cable, there is the lower section that is about 3" of twisted cable that is served at the bottom at the cable splitter. Most of the cable is then served right up to the yoke legs.
> 
> My question is how to twist and fold this cable. Nestly above says to twist it first, then fold it.
> 
> So, after doing this, is it twisted again for the part that is under the serving? or is it served separated with 2 separate "legs"?
> 
> Thanks


This is how a big name builder was told by Hoyt to do it. I've heard of others doing differently with no ill affects but this is apparently how Hoyt does it. 

"To make a 24 strand split buss, you need to make a double length 12 strand cable and serve both ends as normal for the yoke ends and add the twists to the entire cable. Then you serve the bottom serving (short serving in the middle) while the cable is under tension. Next, fold it in half with both yoke ends around the same peg/hook and the small end serving on the opposite. Lastly, the roller guard serving is applied. I am told that NO twists should be added to this cable once it's folded in half."


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> This is how a big name builder was told by Hoyt to do it. I've heard of others doing differently with no ill affects but this is apparently how Hoyt does it.
> 
> "To make a 24 strand split buss, you need to make a double length 12 strand cable and serve both ends as normal for the yoke ends and add the twists to the entire cable. Then you serve the bottom serving (short serving in the middle) while the cable is under tension. Next, fold it in half with both yoke ends around the same peg/hook and the small end serving on the opposite. Lastly, the roller guard serving is applied. I am told that NO twists should be added to this cable once it's folded in half."


This is how I build a split yoke. Butch Baker has a video on YouTube showing this method, although he twists after it is folded over if someone needs a tutorial.

If you follow this method, remember to add .25 to your length to account for the fold over. If not, you'll be short.


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## Jabr357

Huntinsker said:


> This is how a big name builder was told by Hoyt to do it. I've heard of others doing differently with no ill affects but this is apparently how Hoyt does it.
> 
> "To make a 24 strand split buss, you need to make a double length 12 strand cable and serve both ends as normal for the yoke ends and add the twists to the entire cable. Then you serve the bottom serving (short serving in the middle) while the cable is under tension. Next, fold it in half with both yoke ends around the same peg/hook and the small end serving on the opposite. Lastly, the roller guard serving is applied. I am told that NO twists should be added to this cable once it's folded in half."


Thank you! That's what I thought - that the cable is not twisted again once folded


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## doulos

Ive built split buss cables for PSE bows 3 different ways. I have built them by doubling the length ,adding .250. Serving the ends with tag ends. Then keeping the colors separate, folding it over ,then serving the other end, then twisting. I cant visualize this method of twisting it first then folding. Im still not understanding how a cable would look if it was twisted first then folded over. How would this work with a dual color string? Am I missing something?


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## BowBaker1640

what strand count is everyone using on cables with 452x? I know that BCY recommends 22-24 strands for strings but I wanted to double check and make sure that it should be the same for cables. Thanks


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## Mordekyle

BowBaker1640 said:


> what strand count is everyone using on cables with 452x? I know that BCY recommends 22-24 strands for strings but I wanted to double check and make sure that it should be the same for cables. Thanks


I like 22 strands for string, 26 of Trophy for cables.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FlyingWatchmake

BowBaker1640 said:


> what strand count is everyone using on cables with 452x? I know that BCY recommends 22-24 strands for strings but I wanted to double check and make sure that it should be the same for cables. Thanks


24 for strings and cables, unless it’s fluoro and then it drops to 20-22 depending on the colour (orange is fat...) ;-) 

Part of the reason I do as much as possible in x99, even the fluoro colours get more strands, makes a rounder string..

T


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## Huntinsker

BowBaker1640 said:


> what strand count is everyone using on cables with 452x? I know that BCY recommends 22-24 strands for strings but I wanted to double check and make sure that it should be the same for cables. Thanks


22 for strings and 24 for cables. Pretty standard.


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## Huntinsker

doulos said:


> Ive built split buss cables for PSE bows 3 different ways. I have built them by doubling the length ,adding .250. Serving the ends with tag ends. Then keeping the colors separate, folding it over ,then serving the other end, then twisting. I cant visualize this method of twisting it first then folding. Im still not understanding how a cable would look if it was twisted first then folded over. How would this work with a dual color string? Am I missing something?


There's a reason you don't see dual color Hoyt buss cables. I think it's kind of silly to build the cables that way. Twisting the cable then folding it and serving over two twisted bundle halves would almost have to make the roller guard section oval instead of round. They say this is to prevent rotation but Prime has been using splitters on their strings without rotation issues for years. I can't imagine it'd be more critical on a buss cable unless it's the side load from the cable guard inducing the rotation.


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## Puaa247

Tagged


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jabr357

Huntinsker said:


> There's a reason you don't see dual color Hoyt buss cables. I think it's kind of silly to build the cables that way. Twisting the cable then folding it and serving over two twisted bundle halves would almost have to make the roller guard section oval instead of round. They say this is to prevent rotation but Prime has been using splitters on their strings without rotation issues for years. I can't imagine it'd be more critical on a buss cable unless it's the side load from the cable guard inducing the rotation.


The new Hoyt buss cables are tricky LOL. I don't think the 2 colors would make a difference except when trying to keep an equal # of the colored strands in it - but that is another story. 

My RX4 stock buss cable is one color (buckskin), and it appears to be built that way as well. At the cable splitter area where the cable is exposed (see my post #7647), you can clearly see that the two sides of the buss cable are twisted and this appears to continue under the serving as well. I don't know for sure if the 2 bundles are twisted again under the serving to the yoke, but Huntinsker above says they are not. 

The stock cable appears to be round, not oval.

Isn't string building fun LOL?


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> There's a reason you don't see dual color Hoyt buss cables. I think it's kind of silly to build the cables that way. Twisting the cable then folding it and serving over two twisted bundle halves would almost have to make the roller guard section oval instead of round. They say this is to prevent rotation but Prime has been using splitters on their strings without rotation issues for years. I can't imagine it'd be more critical on a buss cable unless it's the side load from the cable guard inducing the rotation.


I've built quite a few strings both ways for the Hoyts with the ZT cams such as the RX's and to my surprise, the served portions that are "folded" do not end up ovaled at all, they're just as round as when I build my standard split buss as a split buss. I do serve very tightly, so perhaps they would be less round for someone that serves with less tension? 

As I said, I've build both ways and I don't experience any twisting of the lower yoke when building as a standard buss either. The whole reason serving is wrapped around the string opposite of the string strands is to reduce/eliminate twist at different tensions, so if someone is experiencing any type of detrimental twist in a cable with yokes, it's probably because they aren't serving at the correct tension to match the twist rate of the string.


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## automan26

Having had zero experience myself, building this Hoyt buss cable, and going by what I have seen thru casual observation, isn't the Hoyt cable little more than a modified standard split yoke? It appears to me that the buss cable is a standard split yoke design with an extremely long end loop, very short body with very long yoke legs. If my very limited observation is correct, would it not be possible to build the cable according to standard procedure, like with the average split yoke? I'm just guessing here.

Automan


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## nestly

Jabr357 said:


> My RX4 stock buss cable is one color (buckskin), and it appears to be built that way as well. At the cable splitter area where the cable is exposed (see my post #7647), you can clearly see that the two sides of the buss cable are twisted and this appears to continue under the serving as well. I don't know for sure if the 2 bundles are twisted again under the serving to the yoke, but Huntinsker above says they are not.
> 
> The stock cable appears to be round, not oval.
> 
> ....


The main buss on a Hoyt with ZT cams is built twice as long with half as many strands, and it's twisted before folding in half, with no additional twisting after it's folded. So there are two definitely two separate bundles running essentially parallel under the serving, but you are correct, they do form into a "round" bundle when served, both in factory strings, and also in all the busses I've built that way. I've not built one as a 2 color, but I wouldn't imagine it would look very appealing when finished, especially with clear servings. I have used "speckled" and those don't really appear any different whether built as normal split buss, or a folded "hoyt" buss.


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## nestly

automan26 said:


> Having had zero experience myself, building this Hoyt buss cable, and going by what I have seen thru casual observation, isn't the Hoyt cable little more than a modified standard split yoke? It appears to me that the buss cable is a standard split yoke design with an extremely long end loop, very short body with very long yoke legs. If my very limited observation is correct, would it not be possible to build the cable according to standard procedure, like with the average split yoke? I'm just guessing here.
> 
> Automan


Yes, I've built them as a "folded" buss as Hoyt describes in their tune chart/blue print for the ZT cams, but I've also built as a normal split buss. I understand the reasoning behind using the technique Hoyt recommends, but in practice I don't see any difference in the ones I've built.


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## Huntinsker

nestly said:


> I've built quite a few strings both ways for the Hoyts with the ZT cams such as the RX's and to my surprise, the served portions that are "folded" do not end up ovaled at all, they're just as round as when I build my standard split buss as a split buss. I do serve very tightly, so perhaps they would be less round for someone that serves with less tension?
> 
> As I said, I've build both ways and I don't experience any twisting of the lower yoke when building as a standard buss either. *The whole reason serving is wrapped around the string opposite of the string strands is to reduce/eliminate twist at different tensions, so if someone is experiencing any type of detrimental twist in a cable with yokes, it's probably because they aren't serving at the correct tension to match the twist rate of the string.*


My thoughts exactly. If Prime can do it on a string, Hoyt can do it on a cable haha.


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## nestly

Huntinsker said:


> My thoughts exactly. If Prime can do it on a string, Hoyt can do it on a cable haha.


It's a little different situation because the bowstring sees it maximum tension at brace and minimum tension at full draw, compared to a buss that sees its lowest tension at brace and maximum tension at full draw. but I do agree it's not an issue if the string/cable is well built.


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## Game Thumper

Hey guys. I plan on picking up the parts to build a string jig today. Have there been any major advancements in design since the first design 300 plus pages ago? or is everyone still using the original design/parts list? I want to start out right from the get go so if anyone knows of any universally accepted improvements hidden in the depths of this thread that might streamline things please let me know. thanks!!


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## automan26

Game Thumper said:


> Hey guys. I plan on picking up the parts to build a string jig today. Have there been any major advancements in design since the first design 300 plus pages ago? or is everyone still using the original design/parts list? I want to start out right from the get go so if anyone knows of any universally accepted improvements hidden in the depths of this thread that might streamline things please let me know. thanks!!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mpqfenqq58f9t7/El-Cheap-O 5.2a.ppsx?dl=0

This link is to my most current fabrication tutorial. One thing to note here...In the video parts list I forgot to include the 4, 4-hole Unistrut straight brackets. You will find this tutorial has detailed instructions along with video demonstrations. Happy building. 

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Game Thumper said:


> Hey guys. I plan on picking up the parts to build a string jig today. Have there been any major advancements in design since the first design 300 plus pages ago? or is everyone still using the original design/parts list? I want to start out right from the get go so if anyone knows of any universally accepted improvements hidden in the depths of this thread that might streamline things please let me know. thanks!!


https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=267

Post #6674. This is my latest version and it runs much more smoothly.


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## Game Thumper

Thank you to both of you for your quick responses!!


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## BowBaker1640

when you guys do a string for mathews bow how do you figure for the yoke? do you use the formulaic the beginning of this thread for the post settings or do you just set the post and twist to the finished length? thanks


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## Jabr357

nestly said:


> The main buss on a Hoyt with ZT cams is built twice as long with half as many strands, and it's twisted before folding in half, with no additional twisting after it's folded. So there are two definitely two separate bundles running essentially parallel under the serving, but you are correct, they do form into a "round" bundle when served, both in factory strings, and also in all the busses I've built that way. I've not built one as a 2 color, *but I wouldn't imagine it would look very appealing when finished*, especially with clear servings. I have used "speckled" and those don't really appear any different whether built as normal split buss, or a folded "hoyt" buss.


Why do you say that? - they look good! LOL

The problem I find is having 2 equal number of color strands for any bundle of strands that is not divisible by 4. 

For example, you are building a 28 strand buss cable, (which is very common for buss cables), so on the jig you have to lay first 7 strands per side, which will give you 14 strands total, then you fold this to give you the 28 final strands.

So how to get an even number of color strands in the initial 7 strands per side. I just lay 4 of one color and 3 or the other - nothing wrong with this and is hardly noticeable but it is a bother. I believe you can achieve an even number of strands though if you lay 4 strands on one side and 3 on the other - the final leg of the layout is taken to the other post. However you will have 2 color end loops as you will have 2 different colors of tag ends at either side.

String building is fun isn't it?


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## Huntinsker

BowBaker1640 said:


> when you guys do a string for mathews bow how do you figure for the yoke? do you use the formulaic the beginning of this thread for the post settings or do you just set the post and twist to the finished length? thanks


The yokes are so short that the added length won't be very much over the initial post setting so you can just set them on the number if you want. My spreadsheet would put a 13" piece at an initial post setting of 13.1". Not even worth adding the 0.1".


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## DeathFromBelow

At what shot count can you say you’ve made a good set of threads? 100 shots with no peep rotation, serving separation, or creeping out of tune? 1000 shots? I’ve recently started building strings and so far they seem fantastic but I don’t want to build up any false sense of accomplishment until I know I’ve done a good job. They look great and are dead on factory specs. I’ve been using x99 because I’ve bought sets made of that since it came out and I’ve really liked them. I’ve got around 500 shots on a set I made for a good friend of mine and he says it’s still dead nuts perfect. So far so good I guess. Just wondering what everyone’s baseline for a “good” build is.


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## doulos

DeathFromBelow said:


> At what shot count can you say you’ve made a good set of threads? 100 shots with no peep rotation, serving separation, or creeping out of tune? 1000 shots? I’ve recently started building strings and so far they seem fantastic but I don’t want to build up any false sense of accomplishment until I know I’ve done a good job. They look great and are dead on factory specs. I’ve been using x99 because I’ve bought sets made of that since it came out and I’ve really liked them. I’ve got around 500 shots on a set I made for a good friend of mine and he says it’s still dead nuts perfect. So far so good I guess. Just wondering what everyone’s baseline for a “good” build is.


I have a set that I made of BCYX on a Supra DM That has to have at least 4-5000 shots maybe a lot more. They have been on the bow for 2 yrs. I shot one year of a Vegas league with it. And we would shoot for a half hour before and after. Shot a lot of open shooting with it also just knocking around. I did a lot of blind bailing and shooting at home also with it. The peep hasn't move'd. The only twisting Ive done on the cables and yokes is when I retuned to a different arrow.
Im not sure but I think you can tell how stable your strings are by a method I saw demonstrated.. Put a flag made of painters tape on the string while on your stretcher. Start out a 100lbs and raise it to 300. Go up and down with the weight and watch the flag movement. Too much is no good. It shouldnt move more than a few degrees. I think the first time I saw that was by Deezlin. I think Butch Baker has a video like that also. I'll try to find it


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## Rmdmooch

Hi guys I’m new to the “el cheapo” and building strings. I’m attempting to build the Hard roller yoke buss cable for and rx 1 Hoyt. I’m curious as to what you think about the length and twist rate for the string. My spec sheet calls for a 24.75” oal. So I have to lay up a 49.5” string then twist and fold in half. What do you think I should add for length and how many twists?? I’ve been hesitant to build this string cuz it seems advanced to me. Thanks for your help in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bcorb

Tag


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## azscorpion

Wow....308 pages?

I will leave my strings to the professionals.....for a few extra $$$.......never have had an issue.


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## Jabr357

azscorpion said:


> Wow....308 pages?
> 
> I will leave my strings to the professionals.....for a few extra $$$.......never have had an issue.


Thanks for visiting this thread on your 10,000 post friend!! Congratz.


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## 138104

azscorpion said:


> Wow....308 pages?
> 
> I will leave my strings to the professionals.....for a few extra $$$.......never have had an issue.


What constitutes a string "professional"?


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## Huntinsker

azscorpion said:


> Wow....308 pages?
> 
> I will leave my strings to the professionals.....for a few extra $$$.......never have had an issue.


It's not for everyone. There are grown men paying AAA to change their flat tires or the shop to change their oil. Then there are those of us that prefer to do things ourselves. To each their own. If anyone you know of wants to learn, point them this way and we'll be happy to teach them. Thanks for stopping by.


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## Huntinsker

Rmdmooch said:


> Hi guys I’m new to the “el cheapo” and building strings. I’m attempting to build the Hard roller yoke buss cable for and rx 1 Hoyt. I’m curious as to what you think about the length and twist rate for the string. My spec sheet calls for a 24.75” oal. So I have to lay up a 49.5” string then twist and fold in half. What do you think I should add for length and how many twists?? I’ve been hesitant to build this string cuz it seems advanced to me. Thanks for your help in advance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've not built for any of the RX Hoyts, surprisingly, but if it were me, I'd not make the twist rate super high on that piece. The tighter the twist rate, the fatter the bundle will be and the larger it will finish after folded and served. I might even serve it at slightly lower tension than I normally do on a cable so I can squeeze the bundle nice and round with the serving too. I've been tensioning way over 300lbs lately but I don't think I would for that piece while serving. 

As far as the amount of length to add, go with your normal formula length, maybe with a slightly fewer twists of course, and then you'll have to account for the distance around your post after folding in half which should be an additional 1/4", if I'm imagining it correctly in my head. 

I know nestly and some of the other guys have built quite a few of those pieces so hopefully they'll chime in as well.


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## Mongostatus

Huntinsker said:


> It's not for everyone. There are grown men paying AAA to change their flat tires or the shop to change their oil. Then there are those of us that prefer to do things ourselves. To each their own. If anyone you know of wants to learn, point them this way and we'll be happy to teach them. Thanks for stopping by.


Funny you should mention this. About 4 years ago I needed to change out a flat tire on my wife's car. I discovered that the tire shop had cross-threaded one of the lug nuts, probably by loading it into an impact wrench instead of starting it by hand, destroying one of the studs. Shortly after that, I discovered a slow drip coming from the oil pan and discovered that during the last oil change, the dealership had installed the gasket backwards and tried to cover this up by over-torquing the drain bolt and when that didn't work, gooping RTV gasket maker all over it. (For the curious: a Toyota drain plug gasket, when viewed edge-on, has a blue side and a silver side. Blue side goes against the pan. Dealership didn't know this.)

I slowly began to accumulate my own tools, a floor jack and jack stands, and thanks to forums and YouTube, I've done all my own work up to and including the timing belt. Haven't been to a service shop, quick lube, or dealership since. So much for "leaving it to the professionals," and I've learned a lot, saved a lot more than just "a few extra $$$," and stopped having "issues" caused by some "professionals" who just want the paycheck and don't otherwise care about what they're doing.

DIY: It's a way of life. :cheers:


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## Rmdmooch

Huntinsker said:


> I've not built for any of the RX Hoyts, surprisingly, but if it were me, I'd not make the twist rate super high on that piece. The tighter the twist rate, the fatter the bundle will be and the larger it will finish after folded and served. I might even serve it at slightly lower tension than I normally do on a cable so I can squeeze the bundle nice and round with the serving too. I've been tensioning way over 300lbs lately but I don't think I would for that piece while serving.
> 
> As far as the amount of length to add, go with your normal formula length, maybe with a slightly fewer twists of course, and then you'll have to account for the distance around your post after folding in half which should be an additional 1/4", if I'm imagining it correctly in my head.
> 
> I know nestly and some of the other guys have built quite a few of those pieces so hopefully they'll chime in as well.


Thanks for the advice. I made up a sacrificial string to check my end results. It’s relaxing till I get back to it. Hopefully that will give me an idea. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Mongostatus said:


> Funny you should mention this. About 4 years ago I needed to change out a flat tire on my wife's car. I discovered that the tire shop had cross-threaded one of the lug nuts, probably by loading it into an impact wrench instead of starting it by hand, destroying one of the studs. Shortly after that, I discovered a slow drip coming from the oil pan and discovered that during the last oil change, the dealership had installed the gasket backwards and tried to cover this up by over-torquing the drain bolt and when that didn't work, gooping RTV gasket maker all over it. (For the curious: a Toyota drain plug gasket, when viewed edge-on, has a blue side and a silver side. Blue side goes against the pan. Dealership didn't know this.)
> 
> I slowly began to accumulate my own tools, a floor jack and jack stands, and thanks to forums and YouTube, I've done all my own work up to and including the timing belt. Haven't been to a service shop, quick lube, or dealership since. So much for "leaving it to the professionals," and I've learned a lot, saved a lot more than just "a few extra $$$," and stopped having "issues" caused by some "professionals" who just want the paycheck and don't otherwise care about what they're doing.
> 
> DIY: It's a way of life. :cheers:


Absolutely. Your story is very familiar to me. I've found over the years that the money I've saved by doing things myself has more than paid for any tools that I had to purchase to do the job correctly. Then I have the tool to repeat the process if needed in the future. Most things I've found are more than worth learning how to do yourself.


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## doulos

Huntinsker said:


> Absolutely. Your story is very familiar to me. I've found over the years that the money I've saved by doing things myself has more than paid for any tools that I had to purchase to do the job correctly. Then I have the tool to repeat the process if needed in the future. Most things I've found are more than worth learning how to do yourself.


I learned how to work on my own archery equipment just because I did not want to be at the mercy of someone else's schedule. Hunting season is only so long. Try to get a bow worked on during hunting season if something comes up. Or order a bowstring. Good luck.


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## Daver36

So I've been watching ALOT of videos and reading this thread. My apologizes if this was already answered, I must have missed it then. Serving your endloops....I've seen it done now with the string material and with serving material. Is one better than the other or is it just personal preference??


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## doulos

Daver36 said:


> So I've been watching ALOT of videos and reading this thread. My apologizes if this was already answered, I must have missed it then. Serving your endloops....I've seen it done now with the string material and with serving material. Is one better than the other or is it just personal preference??


 My answer is no. One isnt better. But there are many opinions. Do a search for "tag end vs served ends'" or just "tag ends" and you will have alot of reading to do.


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## Huntinsker

Daver36 said:


> So I've been watching ALOT of videos and reading this thread. My apologizes if this was already answered, I must have missed it then. Serving your endloops....I've seen it done now with the string material and with serving material. Is one better than the other or is it just personal preference??


Personal preference or simply what your tools will allow. If you're building on a 2 post jig, tag ends are the only way you can consistently and easily make loops. If you have a 3 or 4 post setup, served loops are easy to do. Pick your poison and get good at it and you won't see any difference in performance. 

If we're splitting hairs though, tag end loops would actually be "stronger" in the sense that the tag ends almost can't possibly slip in the bundle and the stability might be better in that sense. If you're serving your loops properly though it isn't an issue.


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## turkeyhunter60

Want to ask a question to the string builders on here? I have some late 80s bows that has the the fast flight strings system on them ,when the fast flight material came out, plus some 90s bows that are in great shape...I want to build some strings for them...Can i use the latest string materials, lets say 452x string material on them.


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## Huntinsker

turkeyhunter60 said:


> Want to ask a question to the string builders on here? I have some late 80s bows that has the the fast flight strings system on them ,when the fast flight material came out, plus some 90s bows that are in great shape...I want to build some strings for them...Can i use the latest string materials, lets say 452x string material on them.


If they have tear drop strings or steel cables, I'd stick with something like D97 so it has a little more give to it. You could even by the 652 Spectra material, it's the same as the original FastFlight material if you want. It doesn't have as many applications as D97 would but would obviously be a safe choice.


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## Gerd

How many strands of Brownell Fury for Mathews Halon yokes? 28 will be ok?


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## Huntinsker

Gerd said:


> How many strands of Brownell Fury for Mathews Halon yokes? 28 will be ok?


Depending on the serving you use 24 is a good number. 24 with .014 halo should fit nicely. You could probably do 28 with .007 halo or .008 spectra serving too.


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## Gerd

Thanks. I have Powergrip 0.009 and Majesty 0.015 but funny thing is that they have almost same real diameter. What is maximum allowed diameter with serving? 0.107?


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## automan26

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mpqfenqq58f9t7/El-Cheap-O 5.2a.ppsx?dl=0

I had a request for my tutorial, so I thought I would go ahead and post it up in case anyone else would like to have it.

Automan


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## bukfever2

Huntinsker said:


> If they have tear drop strings or steel cables, I'd stick with something like D97 so it has a little more give to it. You could even by the 652 Spectra material, it's the same as the original FastFlight material if you want. It doesn't have as many applications as D97 would but would obviously be a safe choice.


Teardrop bows should only use dacron or B55
FF or D97 will eventually pull the teardrop off
Only 1 company used FF on teardrops and that was PSE for a short time. They were beefed up for the FF
A lot of early bows late 80's-90's that strings & cables hooked to a post used FF and 450+
A few had steel cables swedged to a small loop and hooked to a post and used FF string
I have used 452X with no problems on many of those bows


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## 138104

I hope no one minds me asking, but does anyone have some X99 or Bloodline VEC99 they would sell? Partial or full are fine. Please PM me.


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## Huntinsker

bukfever2 said:


> Teardrop bows should only use dacron or B55
> FF or D97 will eventually pull the teardrop off
> Only 1 company used FF on teardrops and that was PSE for a short time. They were beefed up for the FF
> A lot of early bows late 80's-90's that strings & cables hooked to a post used FF and 450+
> A few had steel cables swedged to a small loop and hooked to a post and used FF string
> I have used 452X with no problems on many of those bows


If his bow had fastflight on it originally and had tear drops, it'd be fine to use it again. That's why I mentioned that. Personally I'd only use Dacron on a teardrop string.


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## CKCECB

I finished up my first build this morning after a couple of months gathering equipment supplies. I bought a string jig from Automan, upgraded my serving jig to a Beiter, and ordered X99 and Halo (already had Powergrip). All in all it was much easier than I thought thanks to this forum and YouTube. My build was not at all perfect yet vastly higher in quality than the factory string set I replaced.


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## Huntinsker

CKCECB said:


> I finished up my first build this morning after a couple of months gathering equipment supplies. I bought a string jig from Automan, upgraded my serving jig to a Beiter, and ordered X99 and Halo (already had Powergrip). All in all it was much easier than I thought thanks to this forum and YouTube. My build was not at all perfect yet vastly higher in quality than the factory string set I replaced.


Awesome! It's really a simple thing to build strings. Having the ability really takes your archery to the next level IMO. Being able to control the single most important part of the bow, exactly how you want it is one of the best ways to improve your experience, whether it be hunting or target shooting.


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## chme11l

Mr Huntinsker in the beginning you gave a sequencof steps in string building. Since then I'm sure some things have changed. Would you be willing to provide an updated or current version of your string building sequence?


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## automan26

CKCECB said:


> I finished up my first build this morning after a couple of months gathering equipment supplies. I bought a string jig from Automan, upgraded my serving jig to a Beiter, and ordered X99 and Halo (already had Powergrip). All in all it was much easier than I thought thanks to this forum and YouTube. My build was not at all perfect yet vastly higher in quality than the factory string set I replaced.


ThanX for the update. For me it was a bright spot in a hectic day. I love it when guys relate how great a job they were able to do on their very first attempt. You are correct when you said that once you got into it, it wasn't as difficult as you initially expected. Great Job and thanks again for posting.

Automan


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## 138104

chme11l said:


> Mr Huntinsker in the beginning you gave a sequencof steps in string building. Since then I'm sure some things have changed. Would you be willing to provide an updated or current version of your string building sequence?


While I am not the one you asked, I'll share my experience. I started building my the "book". Over time, I've incorporated tips from this thread and from videos I found online. My favorite one is still automan's clock face. Serving direction and I weren't getting along, but now it is easy with the clock method. 

Here is my build process. First, I use BAP's spreadsheet to determine jig settings. I only tag end serve and tie off the ends by back serving. I then burnish each bundle separately. I add my twists and the measure at 100#. I like them to be about a 1/16" short of finished specs. Then, I crank to 400#, and burnish. For cables, I leave on the stretcher for 30 mins and stretch strings for an hour. With my strings, i use a piece of tape as a "flag". As I release tension, if the flag moves more than a quarter turn, I let it stretch longer. This saves me the trouble of dealing with peep rotation. I let them rest for minimally an hour before serving. I then re-check lengths at 100# and adjust as needed to keep it around a 1/16" short. I serve at 400# and set my jig for 10# of tension using a NW Spinner to serve. I serve towards the loops for my end serving. After serving, I let it rest minimally an hour before checking final lengths and then install.


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## Huntinsker

chme11l said:


> Mr Huntinsker in the beginning you gave a sequencof steps in string building. Since then I'm sure some things have changed. Would you be willing to provide an updated or current version of your string building sequence?


Sure. 

I have posted updates or changes along the way but with a thread so big, they're hard to find. I'll copy and past the summaries from the first page and change things within the summary.

*String building summary*

1. Set and measure you jig to the appropriate length. Measure from outside to outside of the jig posts.
2. Tie off the first tag end, leaving 12-16 inches extra, and lay out your first bundle. Tie off the second tag end and then repeat with the second color.
3. Finish the end loops using the tag end method* but I no longer close the loops. I just back serve each side of tag ends and do not bring them together.*
4. Split the *colors* using a golf tee being careful to separate the bundles evenly.
5. Wrap scrap piece of serving around half of the first color, then pull the looped serving up the bundle to remove excess wax. This helps the colors to not bleed into one another and also helps reduce serving separation. (If you’re doing this over carpet, lay something down to catch the dyed wax). Do this to each half of each color bundle. *I go the length one time on each half of each bundle. I then separate the individual strands of each color from each other so that the bundle twists nice and round instead of with 4 "lobes" from being compressed into "mini-bundles".*
6. Tension the string to *100-125lbs* for 5-10 minutes *(however long it takes to get a cup of coffee or adult beverage)* to let the strands equalize within the bundles. 
7. Relax the tension on the string and re-insert the golf tees *between each color*.
8. Twist the string using the top loop post clockwise if you were looking from top loop to bottom loop.
9. Insert a scrap piece of string material in between the color bundles and run from one end to the other to neatly separate the strands *and leave it in as the separator for the peep.*
10. Remove the golf tees and tension to 100lbs and measure. (You don’t need to have the string at the exact length at this point. Within 1/8” or two is fine. If you’re ½” off, you did something wrong and should check your formula and post settings.) *I don't really do this anymore after building for so long but it wouldn't hurt a new builder.*
12. *(Intentionally moved before number 11)* *Before *tensioning, wrap your extra piece of serving around the string 2 times and run it up and down the string *once*. This is called burnishing and will make the string nice and round. *I decreased burninshing because it helped to get rid of "the bumps" I also do not burnish at full stretching tension, just whatever is in the piece after twisting. That also helped decrease the bumps.*
11. Tension to at least 300lbs to stretch for a minimum of 30 minutes *I do 1 hour minimum on strings and 45 minutes minimum on cables but I'm usually doing something else and they might stay a few hours or more on the stretcher. I also now make both cables and stretch them at the same time with a quick link in the middle*. (Again I like to go to 350lbs.) *(That's probably enough but with my updated jig, I've been able to go to 500lbs with no problem so that's what I've been doing.)
13. After your stretch period, relax the tension on the jig and remove the string for at least 4 hours so it can “relax” and shrink. Make sure to secure the end loops so it does not untwist on you. (I use a paper clip)
14. After letting the string relax, put it back on the jig and tension to 100lbs to measure. If your string is not at your desired final length, twist or untwist it until it is.
15. With the string at the final length, tension back to 300lbs (Again, I've been going higher with no ill effects.)and serve the string being careful to not serve too tightly. (Flag method or String clamps)
16. Remove string from jig and let it sit for at least 1 hour to “relax” to its final length.
17. Place back on jig and again measure at 100lbs. If it’s not at the desired final length, make adjustments and then remove and again secure the loops until the string is installed.

BUILDING A SPLIT-YOKE CABLE
Making split yoke cables on this jig is very simple.
1. Lay out your first color just like you did for your string.
2. Using both tag ends of that color, finish the loop using the tag ends. (I don't close the loops anymore.)
3. Lay out your second color and again finish the end loop making sure you finish it on the same post as your first color.
4. Using a 24-28” length of string material, finish the loop on the other end bringing both bundles together. (You now should have 3 finished loops.)
5. Split with golf tees and de-wax just like on your string.
6. Stretch to 300lbs. (I like 350lbs.) (I go higher of course)
7. Relax, insert golf tees and twist like the string.
8. Remove golf tees and tension to 300lbs for at least 30 minutes. (Again I like 350lbs.)
9. Burnish the cable to make it nice and round.
10. Remove from the jig and let “relax”, with the loops secured, for at least 4 hours,
11. Place back on the jig and measure at 100lbs making adjustments at necessary.
12. Tension to 300lbs and serve making sure to not cause the cable to twist while serving.

These next steps are optional but I always do them.

1. I serve the bottom section of the cable and then serve 2" just below where the "y" splits.

2. Reduce the tension on the jig until it just stays straight. Clamp a string clamp on the served section below the yokes. Remove one loop, unwrap it from around the other and add 3 twists. Secure that on the string clamp so it doesn't untwist. Take the other loop off, add 3 twists and replace it on the post.

3. Tension the single leg to 100lbs and serve a short section to close the loop like an end serving.

4. Switch and to the other loop.

5. Place both back on the post and stretch the cable to 2-300lbs for several minutes to even the bundles.

6. Relax for a minimum of an hour, measure for final length and twist if necessary.

One thing I do to make the build a little easier/better is that I reduce tension on the stretcher to finish the end serving as it goes up the loop. It helps to close the loop and gives great transitions.*


----------



## Bcorb

Thank you so much for this thread!! And all of this great info. I am starting to get a jig made up. I have been watching this thread so much and getting excited about trying this new aspect of archery that i have been having dreams about it lol.


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## lab32

As I said, I sent the Bloodline string set to my mate which allowed us to perform a little research or comparison test. I asked him to measure bow specs and speed with his favorite arrow first after 10 shots and then after 100 shots. Then he returned bcy set to his bow to do the full fray testing. And after that Bloodline resource test will be done.


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## chme11l

Thank you so much for taking the time to summarize. I have been reading through the thread but it will help me see the picture better!


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## Huntinsker

chme11l said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to summarize. I have been reading through the thread but it will help me see the picture better!


No problem. You might also check out post #6674 where I show how I most recently modified my original jig. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=267

It runs much smoother than the original and can go to higher weight without the binding issues.


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## chme11l

I'll check it out. Thanks again!


----------



## patches2565

Huntinsker said:


> Sure.
> 
> I have posted updates or changes along the way but with a thread so big, they're hard to find. I'll copy and past the summaries from the first page and change things within the summary.
> 
> *String building summary*
> 
> 1. Set and measure you jig to the appropriate length. Measure from outside to outside of the jig posts.
> 2. Tie off the first tag end, leaving 12-16 inches extra, and lay out your first bundle. Tie off the second tag end and then repeat with the second color.
> 3. Finish the end loops using the tag end method* but I no longer close the loops. I just back serve each side of tag ends and do not bring them together.*
> 4. Split the *colors* using a golf tee being careful to separate the bundles evenly.
> 5. Wrap scrap piece of serving around half of the first color, then pull the looped serving up the bundle to remove excess wax. This helps the colors to not bleed into one another and also helps reduce serving separation. (If you’re doing this over carpet, lay something down to catch the dyed wax). Do this to each half of each color bundle. *I go the length one time on each half of each bundle. I then separate the individual strands of each color from each other so that the bundle twists nice and round instead of with 4 "lobes" from being compressed into "mini-bundles".*
> 6. Tension the string to *100-125lbs* for 5-10 minutes *(however long it takes to get a cup of coffee or adult beverage)* to let the strands equalize within the bundles.
> 7. Relax the tension on the string and re-insert the golf tees *between each color*.
> 8. Twist the string using the top loop post clockwise if you were looking from top loop to bottom loop.
> 9. Insert a scrap piece of string material in between the color bundles and run from one end to the other to neatly separate the strands *and leave it in as the separator for the peep.*
> 10. Remove the golf tees and tension to 100lbs and measure. (You don’t need to have the string at the exact length at this point. Within 1/8” or two is fine. If you’re ½” off, you did something wrong and should check your formula and post settings.) *I don't really do this anymore after building for so long but it wouldn't hurt a new builder.*
> 12. *(Intentionally moved before number 11)* *Before *tensioning, wrap your extra piece of serving around the string 2 times and run it up and down the string *once*. This is called burnishing and will make the string nice and round. *I decreased burninshing because it helped to get rid of "the bumps" I also do not burnish at full stretching tension, just whatever is in the piece after twisting. That also helped decrease the bumps.*
> 11. Tension to at least 300lbs to stretch for a minimum of 30 minutes *I do 1 hour minimum on strings and 45 minutes minimum on cables but I'm usually doing something else and they might stay a few hours or more on the stretcher. I also now make both cables and stretch them at the same time with a quick link in the middle*. (Again I like to go to 350lbs.) *(That's probably enough but with my updated jig, I've been able to go to 500lbs with no problem so that's what I've been doing.)
> 13. After your stretch period, relax the tension on the jig and remove the string for at least 4 hours so it can “relax” and shrink. Make sure to secure the end loops so it does not untwist on you. (I use a paper clip)
> 14. After letting the string relax, put it back on the jig and tension to 100lbs to measure. If your string is not at your desired final length, twist or untwist it until it is.
> 15. With the string at the final length, tension back to 300lbs (Again, I've been going higher with no ill effects.)and serve the string being careful to not serve too tightly. (Flag method or String clamps)
> 16. Remove string from jig and let it sit for at least 1 hour to “relax” to its final length.
> 17. Place back on jig and again measure at 100lbs. If it’s not at the desired final length, make adjustments and then remove and again secure the loops until the string is installed.
> 
> BUILDING A SPLIT-YOKE CABLE
> Making split yoke cables on this jig is very simple.
> 1. Lay out your first color just like you did for your string.
> 2. Using both tag ends of that color, finish the loop using the tag ends. (I don't close the loops anymore.)
> 3. Lay out your second color and again finish the end loop making sure you finish it on the same post as your first color.
> 4. Using a 24-28” length of string material, finish the loop on the other end bringing both bundles together. (You now should have 3 finished loops.)
> 5. Split with golf tees and de-wax just like on your string.
> 6. Stretch to 300lbs. (I like 350lbs.) (I go higher of course)
> 7. Relax, insert golf tees and twist like the string.
> 8. Remove golf tees and tension to 300lbs for at least 30 minutes. (Again I like 350lbs.)
> 9. Burnish the cable to make it nice and round.
> 10. Remove from the jig and let “relax”, with the loops secured, for at least 4 hours,
> 11. Place back on the jig and measure at 100lbs making adjustments at necessary.
> 12. Tension to 300lbs and serve making sure to not cause the cable to twist while serving.
> 
> These next steps are optional but I always do them.
> 
> 1. I serve the bottom section of the cable and then serve 2" just below where the "y" splits.
> 
> 2. Reduce the tension on the jig until it just stays straight. Clamp a string clamp on the served section below the yokes. Remove one loop, unwrap it from around the other and add 3 twists. Secure that on the string clamp so it doesn't untwist. Take the other loop off, add 3 twists and replace it on the post.
> 
> 3. Tension the single leg to 100lbs and serve a short section to close the loop like an end serving.
> 
> 4. Switch and to the other loop.
> 
> 5. Place both back on the post and stretch the cable to 2-300lbs for several minutes to even the bundles.
> 
> 6. Relax for a minimum of an hour, measure for final length and twist if necessary.
> 
> One thing I do to make the build a little easier/better is that I reduce tension on the stretcher to finish the end serving as it goes up the loop. It helps to close the loop and gives great transitions.*


*So you dont remove the golf tee's at a certain point during the twisting process? I've been wondering how that works if that's the case

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk*


----------



## Huntinsker

patches2565 said:


> So you dont remove the golf tee's at a certain point during the twisting process? I've been wondering how that works if that's the case
> 
> Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


Dang. I knew I'd forget something. I remove the tees after 1/2 to 2/3 twists depending on the length of the piece. Short cables, I take them out after half, strings I take out after about 2/3. I don't count down to the closest twist, I just do it once the twists have gone basically the full length of the piece so that the strands are already in place before taking them out.


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## patches2565

Check thank you

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


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## bowbrothersmdb

Bear Attack / carnage etc. How many string strands does one use for these single cam bows? The one that came off the bow has 16 strands of what looks like 452x. Seems skinny to me.
Maybe that's why it broke when dry fired!
string







cable 24 strands


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## 138104

bowbrothersmdb said:


> Bear Attack / carnage etc. How many string strands does one use for these single cam bows? The one that came off the bow has 16 strands of what looks like 452x. Seems skinny to me.
> Maybe that's why it broke when dry fired!
> string
> View attachment 7178511
> 
> cable 24 strands
> View attachment 7178513


Were they factory or aftermarket strings?


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## bowbrothersmdb

I believe aftermarket. They have tag end serving. And they look fairly new.


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## lab32

bowbrothersmdb said:


> Bear Attack / carnage etc. How many string strands does one use for these single cam bows? The one that came off the bow has 16 strands of what looks like 452x. Seems skinny to me.
> Maybe that's why it broke when dry fired!
> string
> View attachment 7178511
> 
> cable 24 strands
> View attachment 7178513


I use 30-32 strands of mercury or rampage. This is close to 20 strands of 452x. 2 more for cable

Отправлено с моего SM-N960F через Tapatalk


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## automan26

How many of you are like me? July is just around the corner and Brownell will soon be back in business and I can't wait.

Automan


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## 138104

automan26 said:


> How many of you are like me? July is just around the corner and Brownell will soon be back in business and I can't wait.
> 
> Automan


Fury is nice, but the Bloodline stuff is my favorite right now. They recently changed the formula to address the coating build up on serving, so if that resolves the issue, I will only build with it.


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## 138104

When your unistrut is too short for a single cam bow string. Only took it up to 300 as I was a bit nervous. Worked fine, but picked up another piece on unistrut for future needs.


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## b0w_bender

lol that looks like something I would do...


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## CKCECB

Hello Archers, what are some best practices or tips for serving near the end loops? I seem to do fine with areas in the middle like center serving, string stops, and cable crossovers but it seems that as soon as I get near the posts is when I have issues. I'm using a Beiter so it's wide and there isn't a lot of room to do a back serve,s or when I do it seems I cannot keep tension fighting the narrow gap and trying to squeeze the end loops closed. I've started to use the "needle" method but again I have trouble keeping the last end wraps tight and consistent. So what do you folks do that works well?
Thanks,
Chris


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## PowerLineman83

CKCECB said:


> Hello Archers, what are some best practices or tips for serving near the end loops? I seem to do fine with areas in the middle like center serving, string stops, and cable crossovers but it seems that as soon as I get near the posts is when I have issues. I'm using a Beiter so it's wide and there isn't a lot of room to do a back serve,s or when I do it seems I cannot keep tension fighting the narrow gap and trying to squeeze the end loops closed. I've started to use the "needle" method but again I have trouble keeping the last end wraps tight and consistent. So what do you folks do that works well?
> Thanks,
> Chris


Try decreasing your jig tension when closing loops. Also, once you’re close enough you want to start your back serve, use a scrap piece of string material or serving(18” or so), loop it over the post and pull the tails toward the serving you’ve already laid down. Pull slack on your jig and go back over those two tails to close the loop neatly. I’ve you’ve wrapped as much as you’d like pull the scrap material loop off the post, pull your serving jig away from the string so there’s 6-8” of serving out of the jig, hold the serving and cut it free from the serving jig. Then feed the tail through the loop of scrap material and pull the two tails to tighten the loop of scrap material. This allows you to pull your tag end of serving under your “back wrap”

I can post pix or a video if needs be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CKCECB

I hadn't thought to back off the jig tension, that may be the thing I was missing. I do exactly what you mentioned about using a short piece is serving to pull the end through. Thank you.


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## PowerLineman83

CKCECB said:


> I hadn't thought to back off the jig tension, that may be the thing I was missing. I do exactly what you mentioned about using a short piece is serving to pull the end through. Thank you.


No problem. You’ll get a feel for how far to back it down. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to this one. It depends on what you’re using for serving. Some you can use more some you have to use less. Some you can wrap over the tails tightly and some you can’t go as tight. Take Halo and Powergrip. They are WORLDS apart when applying this technique.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

Schmidt820 said:


> thanks for the guide


Wow, 9 posts in 20 minutes. Are you shooting to get all 20 done today?

Automan


----------



## sbing

Hi,

You can order the spring and hardware in canada on : www.grainger.ca

The spring no is WWG44U548

And all the hardware can be found on this site.


----------



## automan26

That's good to know. Often guys outside the U.S. have difficulty finding what they need, especially guys from Europe. 

Automan


----------



## automan26

What does a string builder do on the 4th of July weekend when it's to hot to go outside and there's no parade to go to or fireworks to watch and he has red, white and blue colors he'll probably never use up?

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> What does a string builder do on the 4th of July weekend when it's to hot to go outside and there's no parade to go to or fireworks to watch and he has red, white and blue colors he'll probably never use up?
> 
> Automan


Looks great!


----------



## Dilleytech

I’m in The process of making this jig and ordering string components. My question is If I’m going to Be buying a bunch of serving material what sizes should I get and what material? And end servings are different size then center servings correct? I would just like to buy some various sizes. 

All my bows that I’ll be making stringS for are Modern bowtechs. Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

Dilleytech said:


> I’m in The process of making this jig and ordering string components. My question is If I’m going to Be buying a bunch of serving material what sizes should I get and what material? And end servings are different size then center servings correct? I would just like to buy some various sizes.
> 
> All my bows that I’ll be making stringS for are Modern bowtechs. Thanks


For end serving and string stops, .014 Halo will work great. Center serving size is dependent on your nock fit requirements but I use mostly .014 Powergrip or .018 Powergrip. Then you have to understand that not all servings in the same diameter will finish the same size. You might look at Halo and Powergrip that I mentioned and think "why get .014 Powergrip for centers when you already have .014 Halo that you could use?" The answer is that Halo finishes smaller than Powergrip in the same size. Knowing all the characteristics of each serving comes with time and experimentation, or a lot of reading from what others have written on the topic. 

Suffice to say, .014 Halo and those two Powergrip sizes are the most used servings in my shop. I also have some various fishing lines, 3D, .007 Halo and some 62xs that I use for various applications but the compounds get the Halo and Powergrip treatment. For your Bowtechs, it might also be a good idea to have some .009 Powergrip on hand. I've seen that used in place of Halo if you have buss cable serving separation issues.


----------



## BWBOW

automan26 said:


> What does a string builder do on the 4th of July weekend when it's to hot to go outside and there's no parade to go to or fireworks to watch and he has red, white and blue colors he'll probably never use up?
> 
> Automan


Sweet


----------



## Dilleytech

Huntinsker said:


> Dilleytech said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m in The process of making this jig and ordering string components. My question is If I’m going to Be buying a bunch of serving material what sizes should I get and what material? And end servings are different size then center servings correct? I would just like to buy some various sizes.
> 
> All my bows that I’ll be making stringS for are Modern bowtechs. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> For end serving and string stops, .014 Halo will work great. Center serving size is dependent on your nock fit requirements but I use mostly .014 Powergrip or .018 Powergrip. Then you have to understand that not all servings in the same diameter will finish the same size. You might look at Halo and Powergrip that I mentioned and think "why get .014 Powergrip for centers when you already have .014 Halo that you could use?" The answer is that Halo finishes smaller than Powergrip in the same size. Knowing all the characteristics of each serving comes with time and experimentation, or a lot of reading from what others have written on the topic.
> 
> Suffice to say, .014 Halo and those two Powergrip sizes are the most used servings in my shop. I also have some various fishing lines, 3D, .007 Halo and some 62xs that I use for various applications but the compounds get the Halo and Powergrip treatment. For your Bowtechs, it might also be a good idea to have some .009 Powergrip on hand. I've seen that used in place of Halo if you have buss cable serving separation issues.
Click to expand...

I’ll give those a try thanks


----------



## highwaynorth

I have gotten away from using .014 halo on cable end servings and started using .015" majesty. It's actually slightly smaller in
diameter than .014" halo and gives me a finished diameter of .100" on a 22 strand 452x cable, which is bowtechs factory size specs.


----------



## 138104

highwaynorth said:


> I have gotten away from using .014 halo on cable end servings and started using .015" majesty. It's actually slightly smaller in
> diameter than .014" halo and gives me a finished diameter of .100" on a 22 strand 452x cable, which is bowtechs factory size specs.


Which model Bowtech? The factory cables on my Reckoning were .103". I used 20 strands of VEC99 and .014" Halo to hit that spec.


----------



## highwaynorth

Perry24 said:


> Which model Bowtech? The factory cables on my Reckoning were .103". I used 20 strands of VEC99 and .014" Halo to hit that spec.


Both of my revolt X's, my reign7 I had, my old BT Mag, my buddies Realm. I put a starrett digital mic on the factory cables and strings before I made new ones.
The measurements range from .098 or .099 at the smallest areas to .101 or so. The string serving ends were all .099 or a bit smaller.
.103" would be pushing the high end. The string color also can make a difference. Mine were measured with the factory gray/black colors.
It's pretty easy to vary a few thousands.


----------



## grimmsterdad

automan26 said:


> How many of you are like me? July is just around the corner and Brownell will soon be back in business and I can't wait.
> 
> Automan


Just went to Brownell’s site and I don’t see Fury in their string lineup. That’s a little disappointing but very glad they are back!


----------



## grimmsterdad

automan26 said:


> What does a string builder do on the 4th of July weekend when it's to hot to go outside and there's no parade to go to or fireworks to watch and he has red, white and blue colors he'll probably never use up?
> 
> Automan


Wow! Just wow!


----------



## deerbum

Dilleytech said:


> I’ll give those a try thanks


Don't be afraid to try spectra extreme braid fishing line that's been mentioned numerous times on this thread. I use 40# 4 strand on all servings other than centers or cable ends on my bowtechs. String end servings would be the highest wear area that I use it for and have not seen any loosening or wear period- whether string ends, roller serving, or cable stops. Over 50" served per set with this stuff, it's a significant savings at around $3 per spool when compared to using a material that is $25 per spool.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

grimmsterdad said:


> Just went to Brownell’s site and I don’t see Fury in their string lineup. That’s a little disappointing but very glad they are back!


Fury was discontinued before they were sold to the new company because SK90 Dyneema is no longer produced, which is what Fury was made of. Now there is SK99 and Rampage is made from the SK99 and is the replacement for Fury.


----------



## Dilleytech

deerbum said:


> Dilleytech said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’ll give those a try thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be afraid to try spectra extreme braid fishing line that's been mentioned numerous times on this thread. I use 40# 4 strand on all servings other than centers or cable ends on my bowtechs. String end servings would be the highest wear area that I use it for and have not seen any loosening or wear period- whether string ends, roller serving, or cable stops. Over 50" served per set with this stuff, it's a significant savings at around $3 per spool when compared to using a material that is $25 per spool.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I do like using power pro braided line for tieing in peeps. I’ll have to give that a try thank. I feel I’ll be making strong just to throw them away for awhile before I get the hang of thangs.


----------



## Dilleytech

Huntinsker said:


> Dilleytech said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m in The process of making this jig and ordering string components. My question is If I’m going to Be buying a bunch of serving material what sizes should I get and what material? And end servings are different size then center servings correct? I would just like to buy some various sizes.
> 
> All my bows that I’ll be making stringS for are Modern bowtechs. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> For end serving and string stops, .014 Halo will work great. Center serving size is dependent on your nock fit requirements but I use mostly .014 Powergrip or .018 Powergrip. Then you have to understand that not all servings in the same diameter will finish the same size. You might look at Halo and Powergrip that I mentioned and think "why get .014 Powergrip for centers when you already have .014 Halo that you could use?" The answer is that Halo finishes smaller than Powergrip in the same size. Knowing all the characteristics of each serving comes with time and experimentation, or a lot of reading from what others have written on the topic.
> 
> Suffice to say, .014 Halo and those two Powergrip sizes are the most used servings in my shop. I also have some various fishing lines, 3D, .007 Halo and some 62xs that I use for various applications but the compounds get the Halo and Powergrip treatment. For your Bowtechs, it might also be a good idea to have some .009 Powergrip on hand. I've seen that used in place of Halo if you have buss cable serving separation issues.
Click to expand...

This first string I build will be for a realm x. I just assumed all strings were 24 strand. Useing 452x I’m getting the idea I should be using 22 or even 20 strands? I’ll have to mic some strings. Just another level to this game Haha


----------



## Huntinsker

Dilleytech said:


> This first string I build will be for a realm x. I just assumed all strings were 24 strand. Useing 452x I’m getting the idea I should be using 22 or even 20 strands? I’ll have to mic some strings. Just another level to this game Haha


How many strands depends on the material you're building with. Bowtech keeps the strand count down, because they're cheap and because they make stupidly narrow/shallow cable tracks, and because they don't care about long term stability of their factory sets, so you might go ahead and get that .009 powergrip so that you can increase the strand count and still keep the finished diameter low.


----------



## Dilleytech

Huntinsker said:


> Dilleytech said:
> 
> 
> 
> This first string I build will be for a realm x. I just assumed all strings were 24 strand. Useing 452x I’m getting the idea I should be using 22 or even 20 strands? I’ll have to mic some strings. Just another level to this game Haha
> 
> 
> 
> How many strands depends on the material you're building with. Bowtech keeps the strand count down, because they're cheap and because they make stupidly narrow/shallow cable tracks, and because they don't care about long term stability of their factory sets, so you might go ahead and get that .009 powergrip so that you can increase the strand count and still keep the finished diameter low.
Click to expand...

But if I use the .014 powgrip I have I would want to make a 20 or 22 strand string? Thanks


----------



## 138104

Dilleytech said:


> This first string I build will be for a realm x. I just assumed all strings were 24 strand. Useing 452x I’m getting the idea I should be using 22 or even 20 strands? I’ll have to mic some strings. Just another level to this game Haha


You should be able to build the cable with 22 strands and string with 20 and be fine. Heck, my VEC99 set on my Reckoning are 20 strands for both string and cables and no issues with over 2,000 shots.

For serving on the buss, I'd go with .009 Powergrip as Huntsicker suggested. However, if you only have .014 halo, go with it and lay it on tight.


----------



## Dilleytech

Perry24 said:


> Dilleytech said:
> 
> 
> 
> This first string I build will be for a realm x. I just assumed all strings were 24 strand. Useing 452x I’m getting the idea I should be using 22 or even 20 strands? I’ll have to mic some strings. Just another level to this game Haha
> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to build the cable with 22 strands and string with 20 and be fine. Heck, my VEC99 set on my Reckoning are 20 strands for both string and cables and no issues with over 2,000 shots.
> 
> For serving on the buss, I'd go with .009 Powergrip as Huntsicker suggested. However, if you only have .014 halo, go with it and lay it on tight.
Click to expand...

I probably should have added it’s for a 50# bow.


----------



## Dilleytech

So I finished my string and all went well. Up to the point of serving and taking it off the jig. So I served it at 300# and when I took it off the jig it wanted to twist up Into knots real bad. I put it on the bow and it seems fine. But I’m wondering if I served it to tight? Before serving it layed flat with no over twisting issues.


----------



## Thestudent

Dilleytech said:


> So I finished my string and all went well. Up to the point of serving and taking it off the jig. So I served it at 300# and when I took it off the jig it wanted to twist up Into knots real bad. I put it on the bow and it seems fine. But I’m wondering if I served it to tight? Before serving it layed flat with no over twisting issues.


sounds like you may have served it in the opposite direction of your twists, if everything was good up to that point. 

under tension on your bow it can't knot up because it's being held in place just like on your jig.


----------



## 138104

Thestudent said:


> sounds like you may have served it in the opposite direction of your twists, if everything was good up to that point.
> 
> under tension on your bow it can't knot up because it's being held in place just like on your jig.


This ^^

I had the same problem and automan suggested creating a clock face. If you serve clockwise towards the clock face, you'll be putting the serving on correctly.


----------



## automan26

Dilleytech said:


> So I finished my string and all went well. Up to the point of serving and taking it off the jig. So I served it at 300# and when I took it off the jig it wanted to twist up Into knots real bad. I put it on the bow and it seems fine. But I’m wondering if I served it to tight? Before serving it layed flat with no over twisting issues.


This should help for future builds.
https://youtu.be/QshMqF06CmM

Automan


----------



## Dilleytech

Perry24 said:


> Thestudent said:
> 
> 
> 
> sounds like you may have served it in the opposite direction of your twists, if everything was good up to that point.
> 
> under tension on your bow it can't knot up because it's being held in place just like on your jig.
> 
> 
> 
> This ^^
> 
> I had the same problem and automan suggested creating a clock face. If you serve clockwise towards the clock face, you'll be putting the serving on correctly.
Click to expand...

I assume re serving the ends will be necessary to salvage this string? Will the servings begin to separate badly?


----------



## Dilleytech

automan26 said:


> Dilleytech said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I finished my string and all went well. Up to the point of serving and taking it off the jig. So I served it at 300# and when I took it off the jig it wanted to twist up Into knots real bad. I put it on the bow and it seems fine. But I’m wondering if I served it to tight? Before serving it layed flat with no over twisting issues.
> 
> 
> 
> This should help for future builds.
> https://youtu.be/QshMqF06CmM
> 
> Automan
Click to expand...

Thank you. That was exactly the video I needed. My brain just couldn’t comprehend the serving direction when I was doing it.


----------



## tombo89

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and read very much. Thanks for all the Information you put together into this Forum.

I'm really interested in building my own compound string. But I've searched here in Germany for this unistrud profile. I didn't find very much.
I'm building much things with aluminium profile like the 40x40 slot 8.
Did someone build a jig out of this? Did you think it will work?


----------



## bowbrothersmdb

I don't think 40x 40 x8 will work for stretching and serving under tension. Especially with a longer string. Maybe the 40 x 80?


----------



## sbing

Hi,
Little question on speed nock.

Is there a difference between black brass nock and red brass nock? ( I know the color but...)

What size of brass nock do I need for a 20 strands string? (Samll, medium or large)

On the original string it’s red speed nock I have

Thank you


----------



## justshutupnhunt

I guess I've got the bug to build a bow string. I've built the El-Cheapo string jig and now waiting on the 452x string to show up that I ordered from 60X. The thing I like about DYI's are they're fun to build and can be rewarding in the end. Thanks in advance Automan26 and huntinsker for the DIY and outstanding videos. I probably wouldn't even try to make my own strings if weren't for this thread. I'll give an update and pics when it's all said and done.

JW


----------



## rapids

sbing said:


> Hi,
> Little question on speed nock.
> 
> Is there a difference between black brass nock and red brass nock? ( I know the color but...)
> 
> What size of brass nock do I need for a 20 strands string? (Samll, medium or large)
> 
> On the original string it’s red speed nock I have
> 
> Thank you


The black weigh 6 grains, the red weigh 8 grains.


----------



## automan26

For 20 strands I'd go with the red. Red is by far the most common. Serving thickness will play a part, but I can't remember the last time I used black, except maybe on a youth bow.

Automan


----------



## 138104

Dilleytech said:


> I assume re serving the ends will be necessary to salvage this string? Will the servings begin to separate badly?


If the peep isn't rotating, I wouldn't worry about it. I used a set like that once and I had no issues. If you are like me, you'll build another set in a few months anyway just because you can!


----------



## sbing

Thank you,

Nice to learn from you guy!


----------



## Huntinsker

tombo89 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to this forum and read very much. Thanks for all the Information you put together into this Forum.
> 
> I'm really interested in building my own compound string. But I've searched here in Germany for this unistrud profile. I didn't find very much.
> I'm building much things with aluminium profile like the 40x40 slot 8.
> Did someone build a jig out of this? Did you think it will work?


By itself, I don't think 40x40 aluminum extrusion will be stiff enough to stretch a string on. I don't know too much about aluminum extrusion but I know there are many profiles so if you were to use it by itself as the base of the jig, I'd look for something at least like a 40x80 for increased stiffness. You could also try using the 40x40 and fixing it to a board. Here in the states, bolting a piece of 40x40 extrusion down to a 2x6 board might work well. I know you can't run a bolt through the extrusion but you might be able to drill holes through the width of a board and use nuts to slide into the extrusion track on the bottom and then tighten the other end of the bolt down to pull the extrusion tightly against the board.


----------



## Bcorb

Finaly got my jig done and made a test sting.(i had actually made anouther test string a few days ago with BCY 452x but i found a sharp spot on jig and cut my tag on my second wrap lol) I used bloodline B99 and tryied all my diferent sizes of serving that i had got. I can see i am definitely goin to enjoy this. Thanks to everyone on this thread that made me decided to get into string building. Couple of pics of my jig and the tag end serving. I didnt finish my actual serving cause didnt want to waste.


----------



## Huntinsker

Bcorb said:


> Finaly got my jig done and made a test sting.(i had actually made anouther test string a few days ago with BCY 452x but i found a sharp spot on jig and cut my tag on my second wrap lol) I used bloodline B99 and tryied all my diferent sizes of serving that i had got. I can see i am definitely goin to enjoy this. Thanks to everyone on this thread that made me decided to get into string building. Couple of pics of my jig and the tag end serving. I didnt finish my actual serving cause didnt want to waste.


Looks pretty good. Good looking tag end loop :thumbs_up


----------



## 138104

Does anyone have a picture of BCY 24 in kiwi/black spec? 60X has it listed on their website, but can't find a picture of it. I have a new to me bow in optifade subalpine on its way and want to get stuff ready. I am also hoping to find BCY 452x in kiwi/buckskin/black spec, but I wonder if you have to be a dealer.


----------



## somekindofnick

Has anyone noticed strand count affecting their setup calculations? I'm building a split yoke for a Hoyt RX1, which calls for a folded yoke build using half the normal strand count. 

My final string keeps coming out long by 2/16-5/16". I suspect the lower strand count allows for more stretch. Furthermore, it appears that twists don't reduce the length as much as the formula would suggest.

I'm setting my jig distance using the same formula as Automan's guide and the BAP worksheet: Twists x 0.012" + Specified String Length + 0.25" (to accommodate the wrap around the post when folding over).

Hoyt's tune chart instructions for building the yoke/buss cable:


> Buss Cable Main body construction directions
> The Main body buss cable should be layed up as a 12 strand string
> Serve yoke anchor pulley loops under tension on both ends of layed up material
> Pull tension on the cable and input twists to desired twist rate
> Serve center of long span under tension to create bottom loop serving
> Relieve tension and fold cable in half so both anchor pulley loops are on one hook and the folded point of the string is on other hook Serve body of cable under tension to complete (DO NOT ADD TWISTS DURING THIS STEP)


Thanks in advance for any ideas.


----------



## Huntinsker

somekindofnick said:


> Has anyone noticed strand count affecting their setup calculations? I'm building a split yoke for a Hoyt RX1, which calls for a folded yoke build using half the normal strand count.
> 
> My final string keeps coming out long by 2/16-5/16". I suspect the lower strand count allows for more stretch. Furthermore, it appears that twists don't reduce the length as much as the formula would suggest.
> 
> I'm setting my jig distance using the same formula as Automan's guide and the BAP worksheet: Twists x 0.012" + Specified String Length + 0.25" (to accommodate the wrap around the post when folding over).
> 
> Hoyt's tune chart instructions for building the yoke/buss cable:
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.


I try not to overthink these things. If you're consistently coming out 1/8-5/16" long, just shorten your initial post setting by say 3/16" and add or subtract a twist or two depending on the length you get. When you're using a new process like folding a cable instead of building it in one length, we can't really expect the same results. We also have to remember that these formulas are kind of "dumb" in the sense that they can not take into account any real change in variables. They all assume linear changes based on the data put into them but things don't work linearly while building. It would make things much easier if it did but that's the "art" part of building.


----------



## 138104

somekindofnick said:


> Has anyone noticed strand count affecting their setup calculations? I'm building a split yoke for a Hoyt RX1, which calls for a folded yoke build using half the normal strand count.
> 
> My final string keeps coming out long by 2/16-5/16". I suspect the lower strand count allows for more stretch. Furthermore, it appears that twists don't reduce the length as much as the formula would suggest.
> 
> I'm setting my jig distance using the same formula as Automan's guide and the BAP worksheet: Twists x 0.012" + Specified String Length + 0.25" (to accommodate the wrap around the post when folding over).
> 
> Hoyt's tune chart instructions for building the yoke/buss cable:
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.


Which length are you using to determine twist rate - the starting settings or finished length after folding over?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## lab32

somekindofnick said:


> Has anyone noticed strand count affecting their setup calculations? I'm building a split yoke for a Hoyt RX1, which calls for a folded yoke build using half the normal strand count.
> 
> My final string keeps coming out long by 2/16-5/16". I suspect the lower strand count allows for more stretch. Furthermore, it appears that twists don't reduce the length as much as the formula would suggest.
> 
> I'm setting my jig distance using the same formula as Automan's guide and the BAP worksheet: Twists x 0.012" + Specified String Length + 0.25" (to accommodate the wrap around the post when folding over).
> 
> Hoyt's tune chart instructions for building the yoke/buss cable:
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.


I count by the Pythagorean theorem, where first leg is finished string length, second leg is the length of the circle dividing the bowstring into 2 equal parts in area multiplied by number of twists, and the hypotenuse is initial post setting.

InitialLength = sqrt ( FinishedLength^2 + StrandCount/2 * (NumberOfTwists*Pi*StrandThickness)^2)

This formula shows the relationship.

We have to introduce an additional constant: strand thickness, and play with it. It`s from 0.013 for Mercury (Rampage) to 0.016 - 0.017 for BCY-X and 452x. It also depends on how much wax you remove and on twisting direction.


----------



## somekindofnick

Perry24 said:


> Which length are you using to determine twist rate - the starting settings or finished length after folding over?


I'm using the starting settings for the string before folding. I figured this would be appropriate since the instructions have all the twists added before folding.





lab32 said:


> I count by the Pythagorean theorem, where first leg is finished string length, second leg is the length of the circle dividing the bowstring into 2 equal parts in area multiplied by number of twists, and the hypotenuse is initial post setting.
> 
> InitialLength = sqrt ( FinishedLength^2 + StrandCount/2 * (NumberOfTwists*Pi*StrandThickness)^2)


At first I thought you were being facetious, but I ran the formula and it appears to provide the same conclusion as the simple formula for a 24 strand string. All else equal, adjusting to 12 strands reduces the length by 1/8", which makes sense.

Here's the formula I'm using in Excel: =SQRT(Target_Finished_Length^2+((Strand_Count/2)*(Number_of_Twists*PI()*Strand_Thickness)^2)).
I think I will replace the previous formula (Number_of_Twists*0.012+Target_Finished_Length) with this one. Thank you.


----------



## 138104

somekindofnick said:


> I'm using the starting settings for the string before folding. I figured this would be appropriate since the instructions have all the twists added before folding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At first I thought you were being facetious, but I ran the formula and it appears to provide the same conclusion as the simple formula for a 24 strand string. All else equal, adjusting to 12 strands reduces the length by 1/8", which makes sense.
> 
> Here's the formula I'm using in Excel: =SQRT(Target_Finished_Length^2+((Strand_Count/2)*(Number_of_Twists*PI()*Strand_Thickness)^2)).
> I think I will replace the previous formula (Number_of_Twists*0.012+Target_Finished_Length) with this one. Thank you.


I should have paid more attention in math class - nice work! I am going to try this and see what kind of results I get.


----------



## BM54

that makes things simple and easy


----------



## Jabr357

somekindofnick said:


> I'm using the starting settings for the string before folding. I figured this would be appropriate since the instructions have all the twists added before folding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At first I thought you were being facetious, but I ran the formula and it appears to provide the same conclusion as the simple formula for a 24 strand string. All else equal, adjusting to 12 strands reduces the length by 1/8", which makes sense.
> 
> Here's the formula I'm using in Excel: =SQRT(Target_Finished_Length^2+((Strand_Count/2)*(Number_of_Twists*PI()*Strand_Thickness)^2)).
> I think I will replace the previous formula (Number_of_Twists*0.012+Target_Finished_Length) with this one. Thank you.


Where do you get the strand_thickness?


----------



## lab32

Determined empirically

Отправлено с моего SM-N960F через Tapatalk


----------



## Jabr357

lab32 said:


> Determined empirically
> 
> Отправлено с моего SM-N960F через Tapatalk


Thanks Lab; my, this is getting scientific LOL! 

I tried your formula on a Hoyt BCY X 24 strand buss cable I just built and it worked - I think. I used a .017 strand thickness and .67 twist rate. I took the resulting # X2 +.25 and the finished twisted and stretched length is right on.

I am not sure though if your formula accounts for the added .25 or that still needs to be added. I would have been that much short if it was not added.


----------



## somekindofnick

Jabr357 said:


> I am not sure though if your formula accounts for the added .25 or that still needs to be added. I would have been that much short if it was not added.


I expect you'd still need to double the length and add 0.25" to account for the fold.


----------



## 138104

First attempt at a tiger stripe. Don't mind the colors as it was just a test string. Flo yellow spec and gray spec are primary and the pinstripes and tiger stripe are flo orange. The tiger stripe splits the gray spec. Layout wasn't too hard, but didn't manage my tags very well.


----------



## 138104

Where's the best place to order BCY string material from?


----------



## CKCECB

I order my BCY from 60X, either direct from them or they also have two ebay stores (60X and Bradco is their other one I think).


----------



## Jabr357

somekindofnick said:


> I expect you'd still need to double the length and add 0.25" to account for the fold.


Agreed, and that's what I did. However, it was not clear to me from Lab's formula as he uses a Pi factor and strand thickness variables. I think I need a math course LOL...


----------



## MultifuelA2

Started reading this thread a week ago; you've all talked me into it. Waiting on some string, serving and the spring in the mail but I got the jig mostly together. I just stuck 2 pieces of 1/4" steel together and rounded the end off a bit; that was easier/faster than searching for or ordering 1/2" thick steel. I'll probably make it a bit more refined with some of the ideas in the thread but this oughta get me started on a couple sets to learn it. Hopefully the 1st one next weekend.


----------



## 138104

MultifuelA2 said:


> Started reading this thread a week ago; you've all talked me into it. Waiting on some string, serving and the spring in the mail but I got the jig mostly together. I just stuck 2 pieces of 1/4" steel together and rounded the end off a bit; that was easier/faster than searching for or ordering 1/2" thick steel. I'll probably make it a bit more refined with some of the ideas in the thread but this oughta get me started on a couple sets to learn it. Hopefully the 1st one next weekend.
> 
> View attachment 7211685


Welcome to the addiction!


----------



## MultifuelA2

I can already feel the regret for the $135 I spent for a custom set 2 months ago.. but I need 2 more sets and the jig will at least pay for itself if I can pull it off.


----------



## lab32

Jabr357 said:


> Thanks Lab; my, this is getting scientific LOL!
> 
> I tried your formula on a Hoyt BCY X 24 strand buss cable I just built and it worked - I think. I used a .017 strand thickness and .67 twist rate. I took the resulting # X2 +.25 and the finished twisted and stretched length is right on.
> 
> I am not sure though if your formula accounts for the added .25 or that still needs to be added. I would have been that much short if it was not added.


Yes of course you need to add... this is general purpose formula. You will be able to operate with different twistrates and strand counts. (not only for Hoyt buss cables, I never did it folded in half. Here you obviously need to add something around 0.25).


----------



## 138104

patches2565 said:


> Also can get to the app by www.openasapp.net
> 
> Search
> Bow string Calculator
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Is this still available?


----------



## 138104

somekindofnick said:


> I'm using the starting settings for the string before folding. I figured this would be appropriate since the instructions have all the twists added before folding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At first I thought you were being facetious, but I ran the formula and it appears to provide the same conclusion as the simple formula for a 24 strand string. All else equal, adjusting to 12 strands reduces the length by 1/8", which makes sense.
> 
> Here's the formula I'm using in Excel: =SQRT(Target_Finished_Length^2+((Strand_Count/2)*(Number_of_Twists*PI()*Strand_Thickness)^2)).
> I think I will replace the previous formula (Number_of_Twists*0.012+Target_Finished_Length) with this one. Thank you.


Any idea how this could be adapted for a 3-post and 4-post setup?


----------



## MultifuelA2

Still waiting on the spring & serving material to make a real string but wanted to see how the color combo would look. 

Black Cherry & Silver.


----------



## 138104

Very nice! Is that 452x or X99?


----------



## MultifuelA2

452x. The color is deeper in person but I think a pinstripe would help them stand out better.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

MultifuelA2 said:


> 452x. The color is deeper in person but I think a pinstripe would help them stand out better.


Yeah, a black pin would look nice... 

Black Cherry is so disappointing as a colour, on the spool and in the catalogue picture it’s got a nice deep purple with a shimmer... always comes out pinker and non-shimmery... :-( 

T


----------



## automan26

I have a friend who likes to build that color combo and his strings always look great. You do very good work, nice job. I like how smooth you got it.

Automan


----------



## automan26

I heard that Brownell planned to be up and going in July. I've gone to their website and they appear to be in business, but I've emailed them twice, but got no reply. I need some of their stuff. Has anyone heard anything about them lately?

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

CKCECB said:


> I order my BCY from 60X, either direct from them or they also have two ebay stores (60X and Bradco is their other one I think).


Be careful ordering from 60x. I wouldn't order serving from them. String material should be okay but they're somewhat notorious for "forgetting" half the serving on their jig spools.


----------



## somekindofnick

Huntinsker said:


> Be careful ordering from 60x. I wouldn't order serving from them. String material should be okay but they're somewhat notorious for "forgetting" half the serving on their jig spools.


I just received the order I placed with 60X earlier this week. I noticed the serving looked like it was on an "aftermarket" spool. I assumed they bought the serving in bulk, spooled it on smaller jigs, and passed the savings onto their customers.

How would I confirm I got what I paid for?


----------



## Huntinsker

somekindofnick said:


> I just received the order I placed with 60X earlier this week. I noticed the serving looked like it was on an "aftermarket" spool. I assumed they bought the serving in bulk, spooled it on smaller jigs, and passed the savings onto their customers.
> 
> How would I confirm I got what I paid for?


Oh they passed savings alright. From you to them. If you have an accurate grain scale, weigh the spools. Colored spools will be somewhere between 340 and 360 grains depending on color. White will be closer to 325-330gr. 

I posted about this issue a little ways back in the thread. You can read about it here. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=299&p=1112074717#post1112074717

Ultimately I called them out on it and they refunded half the cost of the spool after I told them that I had actually measured the amount of serving on video and was going to post it on youtube.


----------



## 138104

Is is better to order low wax or regular wax with BCY products?

How many use a power server like the Super Server? For those that do, how much of a time saver is it?


----------



## 48archer

Huntinsker said:


> Oh they passed savings alright. From you to them. If you have an accurate grain scale, weigh the spools. Colored spools will be somewhere between 340 and 360 grains depending on color. White will be closer to 325-330gr.
> 
> I posted about this issue a little ways back in the thread. You can read about it here. https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2062893&page=299&p=1112074717#post1112074717
> 
> Ultimately I called them out on it and they refunded half the cost of the spool after I told them that I had actually measured the amount of serving on video and was going to post it on youtube.


Surprised that happened, i have ordered dozens of spools off 60X and they were always maxed out on the spools.


----------



## 138104

I ordered some string and serving material from BCY today and was quoted 2-3 weeks until it ships! They said they are really busy right now. Oh well. It gives me time to finish the addition to my work bench and possible add a few stretchers to the mix. A Super Server is a dream of mine, but not in the budget right now.


----------



## automan26

This weekend I was building some strings for a new PSE Supra Focus which will be arriving this week. Earlier in the week I ran across a BAP serving tension testing tool and thought I'd like to get one, but I'm too cheap to buy one, so I decided I could make one myself. I rummaged thru some old scrap I keep around as fabrication material and found two long metal bars with pre-drilled holes. The moment I saw those holes my DIY instincts kicked and immediately I saw the tool I was wanting to build. With the aid of some other junk parts and my angle grinder, I soon had one sweet serving tension testing tool.

I learned from my days as an auto mechanic that junk is treasure.

Automan


----------



## JF from VA

Sweet, great job. I have been thinking I needed something like this. Now I have a design thanks to you.


----------



## Jabr357

automan26 said:


> This weekend I was building some strings for a new PSE Supra Focus which will be arriving this week. Earlier in the week I ran across a BAP serving tension testing tool and thought I'd like to get one, but I'm too cheap to buy one, so I decided I could make one myself. I rummaged thru some old scrap I keep around as fabrication material and found two long metal bars with pre-drilled holes. The moment I saw those holes my DIY instincts kicked and immediately I saw the tool I was wanting to build. With the aid of some other junk parts and my angle grinder, I soon had one sweet serving tension testing tool.
> 
> I learned from my days as an auto mechanic that junk is treasure.
> 
> Automan


Nice but, is it not easier to make a simple double overhand loop on the serving, attach it to the scale and pull and measure the weight. This what I do and it works for me - no tool needed. What am I missing? Yes, it does waste a couple of inches of material.


----------



## 138104

Jabr357 said:


> Nice but, is it not easier to make a simple double overhand loop on the serving, attach it to the scale and pull and measure the weight. This what I do and it works for me - no tool needed. What am I missing? Yes, it does waste a couple of inches of material.


I have the BAP version as I have no fabrication skills with metal.

Halo's too expensive to even waste an inch. [emoji6]


----------



## somekindofnick

Perry24 said:


> I have the BAP version as I have no fabrication skills with metal.
> 
> Halo's too expensive to even waste an inch. [emoji6]


I threw the BAP version in my cart when I ordered their tape measure. It was worth it. It's faster, easier, and I don't waste material.


----------



## MultifuelA2

I keep getting some bumps like this in my practice strings when I take the tension off of them.. when I untwist the spot it looks like a few of the strands have wrinkles in them. Bad layout?


----------



## automan26

Not bad layout... You've got a case of the bumps, they have no affect on the string whatsoever. Over burnishing can cause this. Some of the strands have lost their internal adhesion with the strands around them, and when the string relaxes they become crumple zones. I have cured many of mine using a hair dryer. Tension the string to 300# and use the dryer to warm the string until the wax melts and looks like water. Use a cord such as D-loop and burnish the area of the bump to compress the loose strands. Allow the melted glue to cool and solidify, essentially gluing the strands of the bundle together and locking them in place. The second option would be to simply ignore the bumps and install the string. Once on the bow, the bumps go away.

Automan


----------



## MultifuelA2

Thanks, I'll give some heat a try and tone down the burnish. I've done 3 full attempts and they all had bumps. I thought I was getting loose strands from bad layout so I focused the most on getting consistency in tension during layout. My 3rd one has the fewest bumps..I made no connection to me doing the lightest 1st step of burnishing when the string is separated into 4 sections. 

String holders were made after my 1st string. I find it much easier to use the serving tool with more tension..but a bear to have to focus on holding the string too (all for mathews solocams with tons of serving). I used doubled-up 1.5x1/4" bar stock to make my main 7" uprights for the jig and there was plenty left. I just cut a 2.5" long piece for the base and drilled a hole for the 3/8 superstrut nut centered 1" from an end. Then glued 7" of 5/16 threaded rod to it with 6013. A nyloc nut on the bottom, fender & neoprene washers, wing nut.


----------



## Huntinsker

Man it's great to see this thread still chugging along with new people showing up all the time. We're nearly at 1,000,000 views! Obviously some of those views are from people coming back over and over but I think that's a testament to the quality of content and people we have in this thread. Cheers everyone! :cheers:


----------



## somekindofnick

Huntinsker said:


> Man it's great to see this thread still chugging along with new people showing up all the time. We're nearly at 1,000,000 views! Obviously some of those views are from people coming back over and over but I think that's a testament to the quality of content and people we have in this thread. Cheers everyone! :cheers:


Agreed. This thread is a real resource for people like me trying to learn string and cable building. Not to mention regular contributors like you and Automan26. 

That said, it does take a long time to work through the content, and since techniques improve over time, it almost helps to work backwards. Would it make sense to setup a wiki page that consolidates the latest info?


----------



## Huntinsker

somekindofnick said:


> Agreed. This thread is a real resource for people like me trying to learn string and cable building. Not to mention regular contributors like you and Automan26.
> 
> That said, it does take a long time to work through the content, and since techniques improve over time, it almost helps to work backwards. Would it make sense to setup a wiki page that consolidates the latest info?


I've thought about something like that but I'd like to keep it on AT if possible so that the discussion can continue. I've asked the mods to allow me to edit the original posts a few times and haven't gotten much of a response besides saying that they don't typically allow that. I'd like to put "markers" in the OP to updates that we feel are important. It would be somewhat difficult though since no two builders do things exactly the same way and with the same tools.


----------



## lab32

I feel it's time to share another device. 



It allows to serve at a very high RPM, so high that I had to put the drill on the slowest setting to reduce max speed to 600-800 rpm. Аnd after the spool flew out and hit my eyebrow, I added safety restraints (green parts on photo). After that 2 months of work with no accident.
Additionally, which is very important for me, the left hand remains free, which avoids the need to use bowstring clamps.
Most parts sre made on cnc, but i'm sure cnc is not necessary.


----------



## djorgensen3

lab32 said:


> I feel it's time to share another device.
> It allows to serve at a very high RPM, so high that I had to put the drill on the slowest setting to reduce max speed to 600-800 rpm. Аnd after the spool flew out and hit my eyebrow, I added safety restraints (green parts on photo). After that 2 months of work with no accident.
> Additionally, which is very important for me, the left hand remains free, which avoids the need to use bowstring clamps.
> Most parts sre made on cnc, but i'm sure cnc is not necessary.


When do these go on sale?


----------



## lab32

djorgensen3 said:


> When do these go on sale?


I don't think this will happen anytime soon. Now I can only occasionally work on the cnc, so the eccentric system and release aid projects (as one piece) are next. If I manage to assemble my own milling machine and rent a room for a workshop, then can think of serial production. This is just a demonstration of ideas with proof that they work, so use if you can.


----------



## Jabr357

Wow! I want one! :set1_applaud:


----------



## Huntinsker

lab32 said:


> I don't think this will happen anytime soon. Now I can only occasionally work on the cnc, so the eccentric system and release aid projects (as one piece) are next. If I manage to assemble my own milling machine and rent a room for a workshop, then can think of serial production. This is just a demonstration of ideas with proof that they work, so use if you can.


Pretty cool take on a spinner. Looks well balanced too. :thumbs_up


----------



## doulos

Very nice spinner. I like it.


----------



## lab32

Huntinsker said:


> Pretty cool take on a spinner. Looks well balanced too. [emoji106]


There's adjustment screw by which i can move brass weight in or out depending on spool weight.

Отправлено с моего SM-N960F через Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

Robert43 said:


> What I do is I have a 2 post string jig simpler than yours . I tie the ends together (I only make 1 colour strings) in a square knot & mark the center of the string where it hits the post both ends with a white out pen. Slacken off the tension & move the strings along say 12" & install a Beiter / Bohning center serving jig ( the item like a big U ) & do the end serving , move the string back to there post & finish off the serving.
> Hope you understand what I am saying. For a buss cable I do like Nuts & bolts do a small string & a large string same as a floating yoke & serve together to make a fixed yoke


----------



## automan26

I'm still trying to learn this new system. I don't know how I posted my previous post nor can I figure out how to delete it. I'm just a 70 year old technosaurus. 

Automan


----------



## 138104

I am going to embrace the new format...lol!

I ordered a few rolls of low wax 452x to try out and some 008 spectra to try serving end loops. I also ordered another BAP 2-post jig so I have a 4-post setup to serve my end loops. Posting a picture just to try the new format.


----------



## 138104

Guess I didn't wait for it to upload...lol!


----------



## 138104

I tried my hand at laying up on a 3 post set so I could serve my loops. After twisting, I was 5/16" short. I double checked my initial post settings and # twists and they were correct. I am currently stretching, but no way 452x will stretch 5/16". I used BAP's spreadsheet for my initial settings. Cable finished length should be 39 7/16". My jig was set at 35 11/16" and I put in 26 twists. Any ideas on what I might have missed?


----------



## 138104

I think I figured it out. First, I was measuring from the stretcher head to the outside of the 2-post. I needed to measure to the center of the 2-post as the outside measurement will be longer. Second, the outside measurement of the 2-post is 7.75". The spreadsheet subtracts 4" off of the 2-post setting to get the 3-post setting. I think it needs to be half of 7.75", which is 3.875". These 2 measurements make up a 1/4", which leaves me a 1/16" short. That is the length I'm shooting for, so I think I am good now. I'll report back later.

Served end loops do look nice though.

View attachment 7260481


----------



## Huntinsker

I built a 4 post setup a couple years ago and have only really used it for recurve strings. I just can't get consistent enough lengths to make a consistently twisted compound set. I need to practice with it more but it's just easier to go back to the trusty 2 post to get the job done and then go do something else.


----------



## 138104

Well, tonight was humbling. The 2nd set I built ended up 13/16" long. I had to add 8 twists to get to the finish length I needed. So, cable# 3 I adjusted the starting length and ended up 1/8" long. I put 4 additional twists in and called it a night. Tonight, I'll build the string and see what happens. Maybe I'll stick to tag ends on a 2-post...lol!


----------



## lab32

Try to make served loops on a 2-post. I`ve been doing this for 2 years. All you need is two spacers like on picture. They can be easily made of wood, foam plastic or 3d-printed.
Insert spacers approximately in the middle of the string. Make distances from posts to spacers equal. Then serve as shown in the diagram. A little training and everything will work out.


----------



## 138104

lab32 said:


> Try to make served loops on a 2-post. I`ve been doing this for 2 years. All you need is two spacers like on picture. They can be easily made of wood, foam plastic or 3d-printed.
> Insert spacers approximately in the middle of the string. Make distances from posts to spacers equal. Then serve as shown in the diagram. A little training and everything will work out.
> View attachment 7260680
> View attachment 7260681
> View attachment 7260682


Thanks. That's an innovative setup! How do you keep the string from slipping off of the jig post?


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. That's an innovative setup! How do you keep the string from slipping off of the jig post?


I'm not certain but I believe the spacers would be horizontal instead of vertical so the string wouldn't want to ride up the post.


----------



## lab32

Perry24 said:


> Thanks. That's an innovative setup! How do you keep the string from slipping off of the jig post?





Huntinsker said:


> I'm not certain but I believe the spacers would be horizontal instead of vertical so the string wouldn't want to ride up the post.


I have a not quite usual setup: posts are actually 1/4" ejector pins. They`re oriented horizontally and can slide in the holes. I leave them long enough and strands can`t slip away when basic screw is fixed. The string material is laid outside pin holders (these are furniture wheel supports), then loops are served, then I re-attach the string inside pin holders and do the rest of work.
But I think that on other installations it is not difficult to avoid slipping either: bolt heads or extra length or additional post fixings can help.


----------



## Huntinsker

So with the new forum format, we're able to edit old posts so I am now able to edit the OP on this thread. I want to make sure I get everything edited that should be so if anyone has suggestions, let me know. I'm going to change the bar stock width for sure and I'll try and add little messages to have people check out process updates or jig modifications that are worthwhile so if you guys have suggestions, PM me and I'll try and put them in the edit on the first page.


----------



## 138104

I finished a set tonight for my Reckoning. It was built from 452x in kiwi/buckskin/black spec with kiwi Halo serving. Endloops were served with 008 spectra. This was my first time serving loops and building on a 3-post set. Definitely learned a few things for the next build. 

Any tips or suggestions welcomed.
View attachment 7261064
View attachment 7261065


----------



## automan26

Nice clean work!!! That's worth showing off. Like Yogi Berra once said, "It ain't Bragg'n if you can do it." You can do it.

Automan


----------



## Rmdmooch

Perry24 said:


> I finished a set tonight for my Reckoning. It was built from 452x in kiwi/buckskin/black spec with kiwi Halo serving. Endloops were served with 008 spectra. This was my first time serving loops and building on a 3-post set. Definitely learned a few things for the next build.
> 
> Any tips or suggestions welcomed.
> View attachment 7261064
> View attachment 7261065


They look great! Wish mine were that clean


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

I installed them this morning and
View attachment 7261360
View attachment 7261362
View attachment 7261363
didn't even need to put a twist in! After I get 100 or so shots on them, I'll double-check, but after 25 shots all looks good.


----------



## rapids

Sweet looking threads Perry! Those loops look great. Still using the tag end method for mine......just might have to try the serving method one of the days.


----------



## 138104

rapids said:


> Sweet looking threads Perry! Those loops look great. Still using the tag end method for mine......just might have to try the serving method one of the days.


Thanks! They aren't that difficult to and probably take the same amount of time as tag ends. However, I need smaller material. The 008 spectra is too large. I am going to order some 007 halo, but wish their was a cheaper option.


----------



## automan26

Perry24 said:


> I installed them this morning and
> View attachment 7261360
> View attachment 7261362
> View attachment 7261363
> didn't even need to put a twist in! After I get 100 or so shots on them, I'll double-check, but after 25 shots all looks good.


Most pro builders don't crank out that level of quality. I guess that if you want a string set built correctly, look for the guy with a string jig in his garage. LOL

Automan


----------



## 138104

automan26 said:


> Most pro builders don't crank out that level of quality. I guess that if you want a string set built correctly, look for the guy with a string jig in his garage. LOL
> 
> Automan


You're too kind...lol!

Definitely need to get some smaller serving for the end loops. I hope that 007 halo does the trick. Any suggestions?


----------



## automan26

I'm in my shop, building an 86" string and fighting with my tape measure, trying to keep it from falling off the post, when a simple idea struck me. I found a small magnet and used it to sandwich the tape between the magnet and the post. It's a simple solution to an aggravating problem and it works perfectly.


Automan


----------



## 138104

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7263687
> I'm in my shop, building an 86" string and fighting with my tape measure, trying to keep it from falling off the post, when a simple idea struck me. I found a small magnet and used it to sandwich the tape between the magnet and the post. It's a simple solution to an aggravating problem and it works perfectly.
> 
> 
> Automan


Great idea!


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7263687
> I'm in my shop, building an 86" string and fighting with my tape measure, trying to keep it from falling off the post, when a simple idea struck me. I found a small magnet and used it to sandwich the tape between the magnet and the post. It's a simple solution to an aggravating problem and it works perfectly.
> 
> 
> Automan


Nice. The tape that I use is magnetic on the end and it's a big help.


----------



## Bcorb

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7263687
> I'm in my shop, building an 86" string and fighting with my tape measure, trying to keep it from falling off the post, when a simple idea struck me. I found a small magnet and used it to sandwich the tape between the magnet and the post. It's a simple solution to an aggravating problem and it works perfectly.
> 
> 
> Automan


That is a great idea that i will also ise from now on


----------



## somekindofnick

Huntinsker said:


> Oh they passed savings alright. From you to them. If you have an accurate grain scale, weigh the spools. Colored spools will be somewhere between 340 and 360 grains depending on color. White will be closer to 325-330gr.
> 
> I posted about this issue a little ways back in the thread. You can read about it here. The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide
> 
> Ultimately I called them out on it and they refunded half the cost of the spool after I told them that I had actually measured the amount of serving on video and was going to post it on youtube.


I ordered two spools of Powergrip .014. One from Lancaster. One from 60x.

Lancaster:









60X:










VendorPriceWeightPrice/Weight60X$23.0026.6g$0.86/gLancaster$25.9927.9g$0.93/g

I'm assuming the spool weights are the same.


----------



## Huntinsker

somekindofnick said:


> I ordered two spools of Powergrip .014. One from Lancaster. One from 60x.
> 
> Lancaster:
> View attachment 7264104
> 
> 
> 60X:
> View attachment 7264105
> 
> 
> 
> VendorPriceWeightPrice/Weight60X$23.0026.6g$0.86/gLancaster$25.9927.9g$0.93/g
> 
> I'm assuming the spool weights are the same.


Well good. Maybe they've changed their ways.


----------



## rapids

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7263687
> I'm in my shop, building an 86" string and fighting with my tape measure, trying to keep it from falling off the post, when a simple idea struck me. I found a small magnet and used it to sandwich the tape between the magnet and the post. It's a simple solution to an aggravating problem and it works perfectly.
> 
> 
> Automan


Here is how I solved that problem:


----------



## 138104

Got my 2nd order from BCY today. I think I need more colors!


----------



## Puaa247

Whoa... my wife said to unfriend you before I get carried away 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

Puaa247 said:


> Whoa... my wife said to unfriend you before I get carried away
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol! My wife said I better sell some strings if I want to keep buying new stuff!

I do need to even out the lower row.


----------



## gdubbmx

Well, I took the plunge and ordered not 1 but 2 beiter profi. I tried a bearpaw and absolutely hate it lol. That'll be getting listed soon.

I just built a new set of threads for my xplorer ss. Made a nice pinstripe set just to cover 80% of it with black serving!!! I'm gonna get clear. Is it the bcy white that turns clear or do I need something else? Also is there anywhere to get the serving thread in bulk spools like 1/4 lb? I cant seem to find it via google. Thanks.

Here's a pic of the bow with the new threads.


----------



## 138104

gdubbmx said:


> Well, I took the plunge and ordered not 1 but 2 beiter profi. I tried a bearpaw and absolutely hate it lol. That'll be getting listed soon.
> 
> I just built a new set of threads for my xplorer ss. Made a nice pinstripe set just to cover 80% of it with black serving!!! I'm gonna get clear. Is it the bcy white that turns clear or do I need something else? Also is there anywhere to get the serving thread in bulk spools like 1/4 lb? I cant seem to find it via google. Thanks.
> 
> Here's a pic of the bow with the new threads.
> View attachment 7265160


Yes, white Halo turns clear. I believe 60x sells 1/4 spools of serving. There is a guy on AT who sells spools of serving for a great price. They are jumbo spools as he spools from bulk.


----------



## CKCECB

Did you order the blue spinner attachment for your Beiter? I use one and it helps on the long runs.


----------



## gdubbmx

I didnt, but I have a nw spinner that was made for it.


----------



## CKCECB

You're all set then for some production 👍👍👍👍👍👍 work then_!_


----------



## 138104

New set for my son's bow that he rarely shoots. Electric blue/white 452x. Will be served clear. 

I got my lengths figured out for building on a 4-post. I also used .007 halo instead of .008 spectra and much happier with the loops. I will still build with tag ends, but nice to have options.


----------



## Tin Man 1

So i was reserving the center of this string on this bow i just got. When all serving was removed the string center looked strange as far as smaller. So i got my peep center string snd tried to seperate the string. It would not seperate. Lije it had super glue ans not one strand woykd come unglued. The string was plyable. I guess someone used something on string to hold center serving from seperating. My question is, what could have this string builder used to stop center serving seperation?


----------



## Dustoff

BCY Liquid-Lok. I use it too. 

Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk


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## Tin Man 1

Good to know. Thsnk you


----------



## ChadWhit

Just wanted to share....

2 magnets from Lowe's/home depot.

Keep one on each end and simply place behind your tape head. Keeps it locked in and secure even on 90+ inch strings. Makes setting posts much less of a headache, for me at least.






























Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


----------



## sbing

Hi,
I built my first string for my Bowteck Realm sr6, it‘s a 20 strands and I use Bloodline Vec-99. Now I have to do the spilt cable but wondering how many strand have split cable is it 20 strands like the string or less?

Thank you


----------



## 138104

sbing said:


> Hi,
> I built my first string for my Bowteck Realm sr6, it‘s a 20 strands and I use Bloodline Vec-99. Now I have to do the spilt cable but wondering how many strand have split cable is it 20 strands like the string or less?
> 
> Thank you


Personally, I would use 20 strands for the buss (10 each leg) as VEC99 is thicker than 452x. The SR6 has a narrow cable track and will eat up loops if they are too thick. I'd also use smaller serving, like .009 Powergrip.


----------



## Jabr357

ChadWhit said:


> Just wanted to share....
> 
> 2 magnets from Lowe's/home depot.
> 
> Keep one on each end and simply place behind your tape head. Keeps it locked in and secure even on 90+ inch strings. Makes setting posts much less of a headache, for me at least.
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


Nice for the tape measure magnet idea, but give Butch from BAP a few bucks and get this - it is the best little measuring tape tool available. Just makes measuring layouts and strings so much easier:


----------



## somekindofnick

Jabr357 said:


> Nice for the tape measure magnet idea, but give Butch from BAP a few bucks and get this - it is the best little measuring tape tool available. Just makes measuring layouts and strings so much easier:


I grabbed the BAP tape measure and measure plate attachment. The tape measure is great with the little things you don't appreciate until you use it. For example, the markings on both sides to the sixteenth.


----------



## 138104

somekindofnick said:


> I grabbed the BAP tape measure and measure plate attachment. The tape measure is great with the little things you don't appreciate until you use it. For example, the markings on both sides to the sixteenth.


I have that too. Just don't read the 6 as a 9 like I did and had to remove 6" of serving...lol


----------



## lab32

sbing said:


> Hi,
> I built my first string for my Bowteck Realm sr6, it‘s a 20 strands and I use Bloodline Vec-99. Now I have to do the spilt cable but wondering how many strand have split cable is it 20 strands like the string or less?
> 
> Thank you


IMHO good practice is to make buss cables thicker than shooting strings in the sake of tune stability. For Bowtech cables it`s better to be within .108 on cam tracks. I`d make 24 strand cables and 22 for string. I stretch for a long time, burnish hard and serve tight. On older Bowtechs we could see 22-strand Y-cables (12+10) and 20-strand string, so here's another option.


----------



## lab32

ChadWhit said:


> 2 magnets from Lowe's/home depot.


Probably buy myself a pair of small neodymium magnets. Thanks!


----------



## 138104

lab32 said:


> IMHO good practice is to make buss cables thicker than shooting strings in the sake of tune stability. For Bowtech cables it`s better to be within .108 on cam tracks. I`d make 24 strand cables and 22 for string. I stretch for a long time, burnish hard and serve tight. On older Bowtechs we could see 22-strand Y-cables (12+10) and 20-strand string, so here's another option.


On an SR6, I think that will be too thick. There seems to be 2 versions of the cam though and one has a bit wider post stud. A friend went through 2 sets of cables and both started showing loop separation after about 500 shots. One set was from a popular AT builder and one was my build (22 strands of 452x, tagged served.). Bowtech replaced the cams, but he ended up selling the bow as he didn't want to deal with it anymore.

The great thing about building your own is if they don't work out, you can just build another set!


----------



## lab32

Perry24 said:


> On an SR6, I think that will be too thick. There seems to be 2 versions of the cam though and one has a bit wider post stud. A friend went through 2 sets of cables and both started showing loop separation after about 500 shots. One set was from a popular AT builder and one was my build (22 strands of 452x, tagged served.). Bowtech replaced the cams, but he ended up selling the bow as he didn't want to deal with it anymore.


Well, it all depends on how you prioritize  This is the first time I've heard of a man selling the bow because of such a minor cosmetic issue. In my experience, many more people have left Bowtech because of loss of poundage or other tune instability. All that was needed was a good stable string set.


----------



## 138104

lab32 said:


> Well, it all depends on how you prioritize  This is the first time I've heard of a man selling the bow because of such a minor cosmetic issue. In my experience, many more people have left Bowtech because of loss of poundage or other tune instability. All that was needed was a good stable string set.


Well, he did replace it with a Revolt X.


----------



## gdubbmx

ChadWhit said:


> Just wanted to share....
> 
> 2 magnets from Lowe's/home depot.
> 
> Keep one on each end and simply place behind your tape head. Keeps it locked in and secure even on 90+ inch strings. Makes setting posts much less of a headache, for me at least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


Dude, that's ingenious lol. I'm all over it. Thanks!


----------



## lunghit

Just finished a set for my Revolt X. I wanted to try posting pics in the new Archertalk forum so this is a perfect way to test. Still lots of good looking strings on this forum.


----------



## 138104

Very nice!


----------



## 138104

Upgraded my setup today. Almost bought the server too, but will start here and see how things go.


----------



## leoncrandall74

lunghit said:


> Just finished a set for my Revolt X. I wanted to try posting pics in the new Archertalk forum so this is a perfect way to test. Still lots of good looking strings on this forum.


Very nice!! That's my favorite color combo 

Sent from my SM-G532M using Tapatalk


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## 138104

nestly said:


> ...The whole reason serving is wrapped around the string opposite of the string strands is to reduce/eliminate twist at different tensions, so if someone is experiencing any type of detrimental twist in a cable with yokes, it's probably because they aren't serving at the correct tension to match the twist rate of the string.


Can you elaborate on serving tension vs twist rate? I can't say that I've seen this discussed before and am curious to hear your findings.


----------



## Woody64

Hey guys don’t know if this is the place to post this or not but figured if anyone knew you guys would. So here’s the deal I have someone that brought me a limbsaver proton for new strings I couldn’t find serving specs but string and cable lengths were on the limbs. First thing I do is check ata that came in 1/4 inch short, next timing that was way off bottom hitting 1/2 inch ahead then peak weight was 69lbs. Next took off string tension to 100 lbs and measured it came in 7/16 short next was the cc cable and the buss both were short put them all back to specs now peak weight is 61 lbs. my question is do you think someone twisted up the strings and cables to make a 60lb bow a 70


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Woody64 said:


> Hey guys don’t know if this is the place to post this or not but figured if anyone knew you guys would. So here’s the deal I have someone that brought me a limbsaver proton for new strings I couldn’t find serving specs but string and cable lengths were on the limbs. First thing I do is check ata that came in 1/4 inch short, next timing that was way off bottom hitting 1/2 inch ahead then peak weight was 69lbs. Next took off string tension to 100 lbs and measured it came in 7/16 short next was the cc cable and the buss both were short put them all back to specs now peak weight is 61 lbs. my question is do you think someone twisted up the strings and cables to make a 60lb bow a 70
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They could have. Not sure why they'd also make the string shorter though since a short string would drop the poundage. Does the limb sticker not say what poundage it is?


----------



## Woody64

Huntinsker said:


> They could have. Not sure why they'd also make the string shorter though since a short string would drop the poundage. Does the limb sticker not say what poundage it is?


No it’s worn off I’ll have to call limbsaver and give them the serial number see if I can find out that way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

lab32 said:


> Well, it all depends on how you prioritize  This is the first time I've heard of a man selling the bow because of such a minor cosmetic issue. In my experience, many more people have left Bowtech because of loss of poundage or other tune instability. All that was needed was a good stable string set.


For a bow like the Prodigy, what serving would you use on the buss cable built with 24 strands of 452X?


----------



## lab32

Perry24 said:


> For a bow like the Prodigy, what serving would you use on the buss cable built with 24 strands of 452X?


I haven`t built wuth 452x for a long time. Assuming 24 strand cable is on thicker side I`d use Majesty .015 or if color or transparent serving is necessary Powergrip .009.


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## 138104

lab32 said:


> I haven`t built wuth 452x for a long time. Assuming 24 strand cable is on thicker side I`d use Majesty .015 or if color or transparent serving is necessary Powergrip .009.


Thank you. 

The more I build, the more I realize I need some better tools. For example, my needle nose pliers won't grip serving material so I can cinch down tag ends. What are you guys using for that? Feel free to suggest any other tools that are good to have around.

I also am adding some more equipment. I am adding another 2-post so I can use a 6-post set for buss cables. I am hoping this will make building them a bit easier since I am serving loops now. I also ordered a 4-post tension unit. I currently use my stretcher with a short string to tension while serving loops. This attaches to one of the 4-posts, so should make a nice setup.


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## Huntinsker

I use hemostats to pull tag ends tight. Clamp, wrap the tag end around the hemostat and pull tight.


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## CKCECB

Hemostats for me, too but sometimes mine end up cutting the serving because of the serrations. But I get annoyed with the clamping system.

And I have an old set of needle nose pliers that has tight jaws with vey fine (and worn) cross hatching that grips well. These were my grandfather's so they are probably 60+ years old and I have not found anything like them locally. These are dedicated to 
my archery box now which is great because they sucked for electrical work.


----------



## rapids

I use hemostats as well and do it the same way as huntinsker, clamp the tag end in the jaws and then wrap some of the material around the stats and pull tight.


----------



## gdubbmx

lunghit said:


> Just finished a set for my Revolt X. I wanted to try posting pics in the new Archertalk forum so this is a perfect way to test. Still lots of good looking strings on this forum.


Noce looking threads!


----------



## BWBOW

Just bought a new to me no cam htx. Bow had just had a string from a top end builder put on it so figured wouldn't worry about it. Got the bow and it was in perfect shape looked like it had never been shot. Strings where clean looking. Pulled the bow and new something was off. The ATA was 7/16" long and only hitting 64.8lb (70 lb limbs).
So even a bunch of twist was not gonna fix these. The cables where made for the htr no cam im thinking.























So made a set last night and put them on this morning. Also gave me a chance to eliminate all the extra serving mathews does on there bows. Hitting 71.2# now and ata is spot on.

Bcy x99 28 strands black with a green pin. Clear thru the roller guard and black serving everywhere else


----------



## 138104

Looks great! What size and type of serving did you use through the roller guard?


----------



## BWBOW

I use 30# braid, on a slide I use 12#. I fill my spool about half way then put baby oil on direct to spool. It seems to work an little better for me this way then serving then applying the oil.


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## sbing

Hi,
I made my first bow string with your help so maybe you can help me again!
I want to make a string for my friends but he have an olympic recurve bow.

I’m wondering what I will have to do differently for a recurved bow vs compound bow?

I’m I cranking the string to 300lbs or less because the recurve bow need a bit of giving in the string? I’m I serving the string at 100lbs?
Is ther other things to know?

Thank you


----------



## 138104

I can't advise on the build process, but recurve strings are built with a different material than most use on compounds.I have seen posts of guys using X99 without issue, but 8125/8190 seem popular with the recurve crowd.


----------



## SamT

I would think that the build process would be the same because you'd want a quality built string with tight servings, BUT, built with different materials better suited to recurves. I would not think that 99X would be good. Maybe 8125, 8190 as suggested. 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


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## sbing

Thank you for your respond.

I know I will have to use different string materials like 8125 or 8190 I didn’t decide yet witch string material I will use.

I need more advice on the tension use to build the sting or the building steps.

Thank you


----------



## BWBOW

X99 makes really good recurve strings. I use 20 strands, and tension just up to 100# and serve at same


----------



## lunghit

Anyone ever wear out the tension washers on a Beiter Profi Heavy? I really need to crank on the knobs to get a decent serving tension. I wonder if I can buy parts.


----------



## Huntinsker

sbing said:


> Hi,
> I made my first bow string with your help so maybe you can help me again!
> I want to make a string for my friends but he have an olympic recurve bow.
> 
> I’m wondering what I will have to do differently for a recurved bow vs compound bow?
> 
> I’m I cranking the string to 300lbs or less because the recurve bow need a bit of giving in the string? I’m I serving the string at 100lbs?
> Is ther other things to know?
> 
> Thank you


For years, 8125 has been the gold standard for Olympic recurve strings. Hard to go wrong with that material. You can realistically use any modern material though. I know some guys that use 452x for their recurve strings but most don't care for the very hard shot feel and the noise. When I make strings for OR bows, I'll use my 4 post so I can serve the end loops. I use .018" 62xs for loop and end serving and then depending on what nocks and the strand count/material the shooter wants, I've used .018-.025" 62xs, .014-.017" Halo for center servings. 

I build them the same way I do a compound string. I like to know the desired final length that gets them to the brace height they want and then I build to that length. Most recurve builders don't bother stretching their strings and just let them stretch on the bow. I think that's nonsense when we can stretch them just like a compound string and the shooter won't have to deal with adjusting the brace height over and over. 

I lay them out, serve the loops, twist, stretch, relax, measure, stretch and serve. Take my final measurement after an hour relaxation period and then it's good to go. For skinny strings with few strands, I stretch to 200-250lbs but for normal and thick strings, I'll stretch to 300lbs or more. 

This link will help with strand counts and serving layouts. https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/bowstring-dimensions.pdf


----------



## Compound fracture

Hi.l'm new here, sorry if l'm saying this in the wrong place, but l just wanted to thank you all for your time and shared knowledge, l've learnt so much from this site, l just built my second set of string & cables on a mutant version of yours & automan26's el cheapo jig... it works great... thanks again, there are way too many of you guys to name but l really appreciate all your help,..one question though, say l wanted to serve the end loops & l only have a two post jig, can l just slide the string around, away from the post, serve, then slide it back to original position to close loop & continue with the rest of the process?.. otherwise I will just stay with the tag end serving, it's what I have been using...


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

lunghit said:


> Anyone ever wear out the tension washers on a Beiter Profi Heavy? I really need to crank on the knobs to get a decent serving tension. I wonder if I can buy parts.


Yes! They do compress/ start to harden over use and time, if you search/order beiter “puffs” you’ll get the right part (just ordered 3 sets to do my jigs as had the same issue)

Tom


----------



## lunghit

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Yes! They do compress/ start to harden over use and time, if you search/order beiter “puffs” you’ll get the right part (just ordered 3 sets to do my jigs as had the same issue)
> 
> Tom


Awesome Tom I appreciate the info. Will order a set now!


----------



## lunghit

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Yes! They do compress/ start to harden over use and time, if you search/order beiter “puffs” you’ll get the right part (just ordered 3 sets to do my jigs as had the same issue)
> 
> Tom


Did you order through Beiter?


----------



## Huntinsker

Compound fracture said:


> Hi.l'm new here, sorry if l'm saying this in the wrong place, but l just wanted to thank you all for your time and shared knowledge, l've learnt so much from this site, l just built my second set of string & cables on a mutant version of yours & automan26's el cheapo jig... it works great... thanks again, there are way too many of you guys to name but l really appreciate all your help,..one question though, say l wanted to serve the end loops & l only have a two post jig, can l just slide the string around, away from the post, serve, then slide it back to original position to close loop & continue with the rest of the process?.. otherwise I will just stay with the tag end serving, it's what I have been using...


There are a couple people that I've heard of doing this successfully. When I tried it never worked out well. If I were to do it again, I'd secure the tag ends at the posts and then spread the bundle in the middle and serve there. Then cut the tag ends off and rotate the serving to the posts for the loops. You'd have to figure out the extra wraps to put down since you'd be cutting long tag ends off and essentially out of the bundle. If you were wanting a 20 strand string and had 2 colors with 4 tag ends, if you put down 5 wraps each and then cut the tag ends off, you'd end up 4 strands short, if my mental math is correct.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

lunghit said:


> Did you order through Beiter?


I didn’t, I ordered from local retailer who has a direct account with Beiter.. 

They show as available on alternative, couldn’t find them on Lancaster 

Beiter part number - WIEOR

and pretty cheap.. 

Tom


----------



## lunghit

Order placed through alternative. Thanks Tom


----------



## automan26

Has anyone heard anything from Brownell? They had planned to be up and running by July, but they are still pretty quiet. Maybe Covid is messing with them?

Automan


----------



## Cannon Fodder

Dumb question, does anyone know what the stock strings on a Infinite Edge are made of? Searching has been failing me both AT and Google.


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> Has anyone heard anything from Brownell? They had planned to be up and running by July, but they are still pretty quiet. Maybe Covid is messing with them?
> 
> Automan


Heard they are going to start shipping again in a couple weeks or so. B50 and Fastflite then Rhino and Rampage after that. Butch from Baker Archery Products called them a week ago or so and that's what they said.


----------



## Huntinsker

Cannon Fodder said:


> Dumb question, does anyone know what the stock strings on a Infinite Edge are made of? Searching has been failing me both AT and Google.


They're speckle gray and black so they have to be a blended material. All their other strings are 452x so that'd be my guess for the IE as well.


----------



## poetic

hi. this maybe a little off topic, but got a quick question. so i sold my string jig in Dec of 18 and made a set of strings for myself. i had just hung them on the wall and let them be. not in direct sunlight, but could get a little warm in the summer and a little cold in the winter in the room(northern MN). 452x with china braided line for serving. never installed on my Mathews Switchback. just from the jig after my last strech till now. still hanging up. lol. so wondering if they maybe still be good to go. thank you


----------



## Huntinsker

poetic said:


> hi. this maybe a little off topic, but got a quick question. so i sold my string jig in Dec of 18 and made a set of strings for myself. i had just hung them on the wall and let them be. not in direct sunlight, but could get a little warm in the summer and a little cold in the winter in the room(northern MN). 452x with china braided line for serving. never installed on my Mathews Switchback. just from the jig after my last strech till now. still hanging up. lol. so wondering if they maybe still be good to go. thank you


Don't see why not. Even though I make strings I have a set of Fury threads on my hunting bow that are at least 5 years old and they sound to have gotten more abuse than the strings you're talking about.


----------



## Turborider

Compound fracture said:


> Hi.l'm new here, sorry if l'm saying this in the wrong place, but l just wanted to thank you all for your time and shared knowledge, l've learnt so much from this site, l just built my second set of string & cables on a mutant version of yours & automan26's el cheapo jig... it works great... thanks again, there are way too many of you guys to name but l really appreciate all your help,..one question though, say l wanted to serve the end loops & l only have a two post jig, can l just slide the string around, away from the post, serve, then slide it back to original position to close loop & continue with the rest of the process?.. otherwise I will just stay with the tag end serving, it's what I have been using...


I am relatively new to string building. Have only made a couple of sets. But I actually did one basically just like the tag end method with serving material because I wanted to try the two post method with serving material. I was able to make it work. But you have to pull really tight on it. I think I am going to stay with 4 post method for now. But another thought I had was to just run the tag method but don't close the loop and then you could try sliding it over and serving over the top of it. You could try using a cable/string separator made for reserving the center serving while still on the bow to give you room for the serving tool. Just a couple of ideas I have thought about.


----------



## automan26

Turborider said:


> I am relatively new to string building. Have only made a couple of sets. But I actually did one basically just like the tag end method with serving material because I wanted to try the two post method with serving material. I was able to make it work. But you have to pull really tight on it. I think I am going to stay with 4 post method for now. But another thought I had was to just run the tag method but don't close the loop and then you could try sliding it over and serving over the top of it. You could try using a cable/string separator made for reserving the center serving while still on the bow to give you room for the serving tool. Just a couple of ideas I have thought about.


I'm thrilled to see you're hooked on string building; it gets into your blood quickly. Just last nite I pricked a finger and I bled Brownell Flo Green. LOL You might find a problem when you try to serve over an already tag-served section. It's going to get lumpy and you may find yourself dealing with gaps in the serving that may be nearly impossible to fix. Also, the strand material under your serving might pull up as you serve and look fuzzy. Serving over the wrapped tags will produce a very thick end loop.

Automan


----------



## 138104

Turborider said:


> I am relatively new to string building. Have only made a couple of sets. But I actually did one basically just like the tag end method with serving material because I wanted to try the two post method with serving material. I was able to make it work. But you have to pull really tight on it. I think I am going to stay with 4 post method for now. But another thought I had was to just run the tag method but don't close the loop and then you could try sliding it over and serving over the top of it. You could try using a cable/string separator made for reserving the center serving while still on the bow to give you room for the serving tool. Just a couple of ideas I have thought about.


I thought about using my 2-post to do served end loops. My spacer idea was to use two 8" arrows with nocks in each end. Layup the string, loosen the posts and then insert an arrow at each end to give me enough room to serve. I never tried it, but if you decide to, let me know how it works.


----------



## automan26

Lately, I've been using 20#, 30", and 50# Hercules fishing line from Amazon to do my end servings and cables. I was leery at first, but I'm beginning to like it a lot. It grips the string very well and lays down a serving that is very black and uniform. My finished strings look noticeably better now that I've made the switch. It's probably still Chinese, but it's also priced the same.

Automan


----------



## Turborider

automan26 said:


> I'm thrilled to see you're hooked on string building; it gets into your blood quickly. Just last nite I pricked a finger and I bled Brownell Flo Green. LOL You might find a problem when you try to serve over an already tag-served section. It's going to get lumpy and you may find yourself dealing with gaps in the serving that may be nearly impossible to fix. Also, the strand material under your serving might pull up as you serve and look fuzzy. Serving over the wrapped tags will produce a very thick end loop.
> 
> Automan


Thanks for the info. I was wondering if it might get too thick

I am enjoying it. I started because I'm building a bow for my nephew and didn't like the factory pse strings. So I watched some videos and gave it a go. Ran into some issues that I posted in the DIY forum about and got directed here. And after reading through a lot, but no where close to all, the posts I was able to make a pretty nice set of strings for the bow that I'm building for my girlfriend. Now I have to go back and fix the issues I ran into with my nephew's strings. And I already have some ideas for modifying my rig.
This might become an expensive hobby 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

First time building a yoke on a 6-post setup. Worked out great!


----------



## carstud

I just picked up a Mathews Traverse, my first one since the DXT. I am getting ready to build new strings and cables for it and am wondering how accurate Mathews published string and cable lengths are. I have heard to build 1/8 and 1/4 shorter than advertised. Anybody have any experience with them?


----------



## 138104

carstud said:


> I just picked up a Mathews Traverse, my first one since the DXT. I am getting ready to build new strings and cables for it and am wondering how accurate Mathews published string and cable lengths are. I have heard to build 1/8 and 1/4 shorter than advertised. Anybody have any experience with them?


Make sure your bow is tuned and then measure your current string and cables and build to those specs. Much better way of building when you have the bow in hand.


----------



## automan26

I got burned awhile back building an older solo cam string. It finished out quite a bit too long. Measure the strings that are on the bow and use those specs. Mathews has been known to publish incorrect lengths.

Automan


----------



## carstud

Bow has aftermarket strings already so I guess I will set it to factory specs and go from there. Thanks


----------



## LBD

Just finished my jig and first set of strings! Although I wouldn't be happy if I payed $100 for these strings they should work and I enjoyed the process. While using the jig, I made a couple of modifications to allow me to serve the end loops and although I welded these modifications I believe they could be done without a welder.

First off I made this triangle that separates the string enough to allow me to use a serving jig
























Then I pounded this pipe onto a 3/16" bolt, this allows me to start my wrap in the middle and makes serving end loops much easier and when combined these modifications made it a lot easier to use for me.









in addition to this, I also reinforced the eye bolt on the adjusting head because it was severely bending










and here's how my first set of strings turned out


----------



## 138104

LBD said:


> Just finished my jig and first set of strings! Although I wouldn't be happy if I payed $100 for these strings they should work and I enjoyed the process. While using the jig, I made a couple of modifications to allow me to serve the end loops and although I welded these modifications I believe they could be done without a welder.
> 
> First off I made this triangle that separates the string enough to allow me to use a serving jig
> 
> View attachment 7290903
> View attachment 7290904
> View attachment 7290906
> 
> 
> Then I pounded this pipe onto a 3/16" bolt, this allows me to start my wrap in the middle and makes serving end loops much easier and when combined these modifications made it a lot easier to use for me.
> View attachment 7290909
> 
> 
> in addition to this, I also reinforced the eye bolt on the adjusting head because it was severely bending
> 
> View attachment 7290910
> 
> 
> and here's how my first set of strings turned out
> 
> View attachment 7290912
> View attachment 7290913
> View attachment 7290915
> 
> 
> View attachment 7290914


Nice idea! How did stretching go without the unistrut being bolted down?


----------



## LBD

I didn't have any problems, when stretching my main string the strut flexed a like little bit and I will bolt it down in the future but I don't think that I have 2.


----------



## Jorgejohnson72

I used a 2x4 with dome nails put in it i might make a youtube video about it im not sure yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TJ_

Hello all. Very green new string builder here. Can someone point me in the right direction for layout instructions on a four post jig? I'm come out 1-2 over on my string after twisting.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

TJ_ said:


> Hello all. Very green new string builder here. Can someone point me in the right direction for layout instructions on a four post jig? I'm come out 1-2 over on my string after twisting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Do you have a good formula for building on a 2-post set? If so, you could lay it up like a 2-post and then put spacers in so you can serve your end loops.


----------



## TJ_

Perry24 said:


> Do you have a good formula for building on a 2-post set? If so, you could lay it up like a 2-post and then put spacers in so you can serve your end loops.


I could use it as as two post. I was using BAPs excel sheet and plugging in the string length to get where to set the 4 post.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

TJ_ said:


> I could use it as as two post. I was using BAPs excel sheet and plugging in the string length to get where to set the 4 post.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


His 2-post worked well, but the 4-post was way off for me. On your other thread, I added a link to a post with instructions to build a worksheet. However, you need to use Google Sheets, not Excel to build it. That has worked great for me for a 4-post build. 

Do you use BAP 4-post set? If so, I'd be happy to plug in the lengths using my spreadsheet for you to try. Just need finished lengths, material, and strand count.


----------



## Cannon Fodder

automan26 said:


> Lately, I've been using 20#, 30", and 50# Hercules fishing line from Amazon to do my end servings and cables.


Are you using the 4 strand or the 8 strand?


----------



## TJ_

Perry24 said:


> His 2-post worked well, but the 4-post was way off for me. On your other thread, I added a link to a post with instructions to build a worksheet. However, you need to use Google Sheets, not Excel to build it. That has worked great for me for a 4-post build.
> 
> Do you use BAP 4-post set? If so, I'd be happy to plug in the lengths using my spreadsheet for you to try. Just need finished lengths, material, and strand count.


I built my own jig. That occurred to me maybe its not the same as BAPs 4 post jig. As I'm super new to this the challenging parts are of course serving the end loops together and getting the right finished length.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

TJ_ said:


> I built my own jig. That occurred to me maybe its not the same as BAPs 4 post jig. As I'm super new to this the challenging parts are of course serving the end loops together and getting the right finished length.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Yes, the outside measurement of your posts would affect your starting lengths. BAP jigs are 7.75". That can be changed on his spreadsheet.


----------



## Huntinsker

LBD said:


> Just finished my jig and first set of strings! Although I wouldn't be happy if I payed $100 for these strings they should work and I enjoyed the process. While using the jig, I made a couple of modifications to allow me to serve the end loops and although I welded these modifications I believe they could be done without a welder.
> 
> First off I made this triangle that separates the string enough to allow me to use a serving jig
> 
> View attachment 7290903
> View attachment 7290904
> View attachment 7290906
> 
> 
> Then I pounded this pipe onto a 3/16" bolt, this allows me to start my wrap in the middle and makes serving end loops much easier and when combined these modifications made it a lot easier to use for me.
> View attachment 7290909
> 
> 
> in addition to this, I also reinforced the eye bolt on the adjusting head because it was severely bending
> 
> View attachment 7290910
> 
> 
> and here's how my first set of strings turned out
> 
> View attachment 7290912
> View attachment 7290913
> View attachment 7290915
> 
> 
> View attachment 7290914


Nice modifications and great work on the threads. I like the idea of tying off in the middle as a way to do served loops with your spreader on the 2 post setup.


----------



## Huntinsker

TJ_ said:


> I built my own jig. That occurred to me maybe its not the same as BAPs 4 post jig. As I'm super new to this the challenging parts are of course serving the end loops together and getting the right finished length.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Don't feel bad. I don't do served loops much because I'm not consistent with the finished lengths either. I need to spend a little time and improve my 4 post jig so it's more consistent from piece to piece.


----------



## automan26

Cannon Fodder said:


> Are you using the 4 strand or the 8 strand?


I'm using the 4 strand.... Good stuff.

Automan


----------



## MultifuelA2

I've used up nearly all of my 1st 2 spools of 452x. I continue to improve and I think I'll have some real keepers with the next couple spools. Yes, you will save a lot of money on a string set. No, you will not save any money on string sets. Not after you find yourself, as warned, addicted. Perhaps even waking up with faint recollections of a surreal dream where you were asking close friends who barely shoot about their bow models..looking up the layout charts and producing yet another set. Only to find out that string is very real, neatly folded and hanging up to give away.


----------



## automan26

I agree.... It's an addiction... But it's hard to explain to someone else the sense of satisfaction one gets from standing back and gazing at the most beautiful set of threads on the planet, simply because you built them yourself. You're right though, if you get into string building to save money on strings, the addiction will blow a hole in that real quick. LOL

Automan


----------



## MultifuelA2

Up close, silver halo .014, & "army green" 4 strand Dorisea Extreme Braid 40lb (amazon). The dorisea was $9 for a 330yd spool.


----------



## Huntinsker

MultifuelA2 said:


> Up close, silver halo .014, & "army green" 4 strand Dorisea Extreme Braid 40lb (amazon). The dorisea was $9 for a 330yd spool.
> 
> 
> View attachment 7309253
> View attachment 7309254


Looks eerily similar. Is the Extreme Braid also braided Spectra?


----------



## CKCECB

Good info! I just started my last jig spool of Halo.


----------



## MultifuelA2

Huntinsker said:


> Looks eerily similar. Is the Extreme Braid also braided Spectra?








Amazon.com : Dorisea Extreme Braid 100% Pe Braided Fishing Line 109Yards-2187Yards 6-300Lb Test Army Green (300m/328Yards 40lb/0.32mm) : Sports & Outdoors


Amazon.com : Dorisea Extreme Braid 100% Pe Braided Fishing Line 109Yards-2187Yards 6-300Lb Test Army Green (300m/328Yards 40lb/0.32mm) : Sports & Outdoors



www.amazon.com





It says it's UHMWPE, which as far as I can tell is what spectra is.


----------



## automan26

Actually, I think the Dorisea looks like better material from what I can see in the pics.

Automan


----------



## MultifuelA2

I measured them with a micrometer a few times each and came up with:
Halo .014 silver 0.0135"
Dorisea 40lb army green 0.0137"
I'll have to try it out & compare finished thicknesses.


----------



## Huntinsker

MultifuelA2 said:


> Amazon.com : Dorisea Extreme Braid 100% Pe Braided Fishing Line 109Yards-2187Yards 6-300Lb Test Army Green (300m/328Yards 40lb/0.32mm) : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : Dorisea Extreme Braid 100% Pe Braided Fishing Line 109Yards-2187Yards 6-300Lb Test Army Green (300m/328Yards 40lb/0.32mm) : Sports & Outdoors
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It says it's UHMWPE, which as far as I can tell is what spectra is.


Yeah I suppose they can't use the trade names like Dyneema, Spectra or Vectran so they have to use the blanket term. They're all UHMWPE but with slightly different makeups. I got into a bit of a discussion/argument on Facebook with a BCY shill that was ripping on anyone using braided fishing lines on bow strings for any reason. He said that archery specific materials were braided and formulated for archery specific tasks and that fishing lines could not possibly perform well as serving material. He of course had no first hand knowledge of this and was just running his mouth. Looking at your pictures, I think it's clear that is the exact same braid technique. Only difference is that this Chinese company looks to have a smoother dye process haha. Maybe BCY should as them how they do it.


----------



## automan26

There's another important thing to remember about fishing line. Fishing line is built to stand up against abrasive forces that are much greater than anything a bow can throw at serving material. Cam tracks are smooth and polished and designed to eliminate abrasion on the serving. Fishing line is made to withstand being repeatedly dragged over rocks, the sides of boats and thru weeds where they pick up abrasives like dirt, sand and grit; serving thread never has to experience such conditions. Fishing line would therefore be a superior material for serving strings.

Automan


----------



## 4th

I wonder if the 8 strand braid would work as well as the 4 strand braid ? Or better.


----------



## Huntinsker

4th said:


> I wonder if the 8 strand braid would work as well as the 4 strand braid ? Or better.


It's too smooth to hold well on the string and will separate more easily over bends. 4 strand is the way to go.


----------



## MultifuelA2

Final diameter was the same. 
Pic 1, 40lb Dorisea
Pic 2 Halo .014


----------



## 138104

MultifuelA2 said:


> Final diameter was the same.
> Pic 1, 40lb Dorisea
> Pic 2 Halo .014
> 
> 
> View attachment 7309955
> View attachment 7309956


Seems like the Halo fuzzed more, but the wraps are tighter. On the Dorisea, it looks like you can see the string material between the wraps.

What are you using to get those close ups?


----------



## automan26

Great pics.... ThanX.

From the looks of the two materials, I would guess that the serving bobbin abraided the Halo more than the Dorisea. If that's so, it would be an important consideration when deciding which material to go with. At minimum, it tells me that Dorisea is at least as good as Halo.

Automan


----------



## MultifuelA2

Perry24 said:


> Seems like the Halo fuzzed more, but the wraps are tighter. On the Dorisea, it looks like you can see the string material between the wraps.
> 
> What are you using to get those close ups?


Maybe the fishing braid would've sealed up just as tight with some more tension. Or maybe the scrappy appearance of the halo is the difference that fills those voids. Interesting to look at anyways. 
I just held my phone up to a cheap little microscope.


----------



## Huntinsker

It looks to me that they are wrapped just as tightly but the magnification is greater on the Dorisea so it appears to not be as closely wrapped. The rough appearance of the Halo is the wax/dye that they use to color the fibers. If you've ever had colored Halo with chalky dye that comes off just by touching it, you'll have seen this but in this case, there's enough adherence that it stays on the serving. If I were to guess, I'd bet that the Halo had more wax build up on the bobbin than the Dorisea did.


----------



## MultifuelA2

Since you mentioned the wax/dye, here is some white halo.


----------



## Huntinsker

The green fishing line looks as clean as white halo. I wonder what Brownell Bullwhip would look like compared to Halo. Brownell always had a better wax/dye than BCY so it'd be interesting to see how they compare. However anyone does it, it seems that Chinese company making that braided line does a good job haha.


----------



## MultifuelA2

If your curiosity inclines you, drop a few yards in an envelope and I can post pics.


----------



## mbsa

automan26 said:


> I'm using the 4 strand.... Good stuff.
> 
> Automan


Any idea if the white will turn clear after serving?


----------



## automan26

White will turn clear, but different materials react differently. You need something very thin. I've seen great results with very thin Halo. Chinese line doesn't get as clear as I like. Several years back a pro builder shared a trade secret with me about clear serving material with the promise that I'd never reveal the specifics. However, I can tell you that if you hunt around for a 30# clear American braided fishing line, you will be pleased with how it clears up.

Automan


----------



## 138104

It seems that bulk Power Pro is comparable cost-wise to halo in bulk. Does it clear up better than halo?


----------



## lunghit

Without going back in all the thousands of posts here what’s the latest on the causes of bumps? Did anyone ever figure out why they occur and is there a way to avoid them? Thanks


----------



## automan26

Perry24 said:


> It seems that bulk Power Pro is comparable cost-wise to halo in bulk. Does it clear up better than halo?


I've never tried clear Power Pro, but I'd be willing to bet that 20#-30# would clear up very nicely. 

Automan


----------



## MultifuelA2

lunghit said:


> Without going back in all the thousands of posts here what’s the latest on the causes of bumps? Did anyone ever figure out why they occur and is there a way to avoid them? Thanks


I've suffered a lot from bumps, only making cables and 90" strings. Do your best to get consistent layout tension. Make sure to lock in the jig, pre-tensioning the spring end so it doesn't flex during layout. I don't pull real hard on my tag ends for end loops. I switched from using serving material to using bigger string like d-loop cord & masonry twine for dewaxing and burnishing. You can't bite nearly as hard into the string with the thicker string. After dewaxing, pull the individual strands apart so they can move more freely during the twist and stretch. Do not do the final burnish until after stretching, relaxing & confirming your final length at 100lbs. I do the final burnish at 200lbs, 1 pass up 1 pass down without stopping anywhere. Then up to 300+ with string clamps for serving. 
These are all tips I picked up here and there in this thread, I do not know who to credit for all of them. I'm pretty sure huntinsker had the idea to separate strands after dewaxing and automan for pretensioning the spring end before layout.


----------



## Gene1

I used Halo white to serve and was almost clear. I added the BCY serving clarifier and got this results last night.


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> It seems that bulk Power Pro is comparable cost-wise to halo in bulk. Does it clear up better than halo?


I've not used actual Power Pro but I have used Cabela's Ripcord, made before the Bass Pro purchase. I'm pretty sure it's made by Power Pro based on the specs. The Ripcord has a coating on it that is designed to keep it white so when you serve with it, it doesn't go as clear in the normal serving sizes. I use .002 Ripcord through cable slides and it goes perfectly clear but the .006 and .012 does stay a little cloudy. Not sure the Power Pro would compare directly though.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Without going back in all the thousands of posts here what’s the latest on the causes of bumps? Did anyone ever figure out why they occur and is there a way to avoid them? Thanks


The most common consensus has to do with over burnishing. For me personally, I think it was burnishing while the piece was already at stretching tension. My theory is that this locks the fibers together by compressing the wax together. Then when the tension is released, some of the stronger bonded wax will hold together and where there isn't quite as much wax holding together, a bump will form like a crumple zone as the whole piece contracts. After changing my process to burnish after twisting but before taking it to stretching tension, the bumps have not shown up again. I also only go up and down the twisted piece one time while burnishing.


----------



## automan26

I've discovered a way to repair the bumps which works 80% of the time. Locate the bump, then stretch the string to 100#. Use a hairdryer to warm the string until the wax melts to where the area around the bump looks like it's coated with water. Using a D-loop cord, stiffly burnish over the bump, then tighten the string to 300# and let the wax cool before letting down. The idea is to soften the wax inside the bump so that when it cools it becomes a binder, gluing the strands around the bump back together. This goes hand in hand with Huntinsker's theory of crumple zones. When the wax solidifies it becomes a glue, binding the crumple zone internally.

Automan


----------



## lunghit

All good tips and I appreciate the replies. So I have been burnishing at 300 pounds but using a piece of center serving material so I will switch that up. I will try some masonry twine next and at less pounds like multifuel says above. I only burnish now one time at 300 and that’s the whole bundle after twisting. 

Huntinsker you stated that you burnish after twisting but before stretching tension. When I finish twisting I’m usually at or around 300 pounds so I am already at serving tension. You think I should just finish twisting and lower the weight to around 200 and burnish? 

Automan thanks for that tip. I just finished a string last nigh and have a few bumps so I will try that!


----------



## automan26

Let me know how the hairdryer works.

Automan


----------



## 138104

Gene1 said:


> I used Halo white to serve and was almost clear. I added the BCY serving clarifier and got this results last night.
> View attachment 7310742
> View attachment 7310745


Looks great! What diameter halo did you use for the center serving?


----------



## 138104

lunghit said:


> All good tips and I appreciate the replies. So I have been burnishing at 300 pounds but using a piece of center serving material so I will switch that up. I will try some masonry twine next and at less pounds like multifuel says above. I only burnish now one time at 300 and that’s the whole bundle after twisting.
> 
> Huntinsker you stated that you burnish after twisting but before stretching tension. When I finish twisting I’m usually at or around 300 pounds so I am already at serving tension. You think I should just finish twisting and lower the weight to around 200 and burnish?
> 
> Automan thanks for that tip. I just finished a string last nigh and have a few bumps so I will try that!


If you use BCY, order low wax. The only burnishing I do is right after twisting and very little wax comes off.


----------



## Brad Lehmann

There was a thread on here that had string length and serving specs for nearly every bow made. I'm about to do a set for an old Drenalin that I just got and want to do a little reading first. Can anyone point me to that thread please? The search engine here is rather weak with the new format. TIA


----------



## MultifuelA2

Attn: String Makers


How would all stringmakers like to start a string -cable lengths as well as serve lengths thread. I have spoke with a few of they string makers here on AT about this ,they like it. Please respond to this thread if you like the idea,it only helps us all out!!!




www.archerytalk.com


----------



## 138104

Brad Lehmann said:


> There was a thread on here that had string length and serving specs for nearly every bow made. I'm about to do a set for an old Drenalin that I just got and want to do a little reading first. Can anyone point me to that thread please? The search engine here is rather weak with the new format. TIA


I use Tapatalk on my phone to search and it works well.


----------



## Brad Lehmann

Perry24 said:


> I use Tapatalk on my phone to search and it works well.


I have a flip phone. Never had Tapatalk


----------



## Gene1

I used Halo .014


----------



## Gene1

Perry24 said:


> Looks great! What diameter halo did you use for the center serving?


Thanks, I used halo .014.

For some strange reason now the nock is loose. It clicks in but a little too loose for me. I’ve made may last set with 13 berry red and 13 black strands and same halo .014 and it was fine. This time I use 20 fl yellow (I thought was thicker than reg color) and 6 black.
I must have serve it tighter this time.

Im thinking about switch out center serving to thicker material. Only have that in black. But will make serving shorter.


----------



## lunghit

Perry24 said:


> If you use BCY, order low wax. The only burnishing I do is right after twisting and very little wax comes off.


Yes I do use low wax and not much wax comes off. I have some things to try for my next set. Thanks again


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> All good tips and I appreciate the replies. So I have been burnishing at 300 pounds but using a piece of center serving material so I will switch that up. I will try some masonry twine next and at less pounds like multifuel says above. I only burnish now one time at 300 and that’s the whole bundle after twisting.
> 
> Huntinsker you stated that you burnish after twisting but before stretching tension. When I finish twisting I’m usually at or around 300 pounds so I am already at serving tension. You think I should just finish twisting and lower the weight to around 200 and burnish?
> 
> Automan thanks for that tip. I just finished a string last nigh and have a few bumps so I will try that!


That's what I do. I reduce tension on the jig little by little to try and keep the tension somewhat more consistent while twisting. When I'm done I probably have 150lbs on it when I burnish.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> That's what I do. I reduce tension on the jig little by little to try and keep the tension somewhat more consistent while twisting. When I'm done I probably have 150lbs on it when I burnish.


Thank you again. I have a few things to try next time. Other than the bumps my strings are perfect. Once I figure out which bow I’m ordering next I’ll be able to experiment with some new string making techniques.


----------



## tripleb2431

Where do you guys get your shrink wrap to wrap your speed nock sets? Is there a certain size to get?

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

tripleb2431 said:


> Where do you guys get your shrink wrap to wrap your speed nock sets? Is there a certain size to get?
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


eBay and get 3:1 shrink 1/4” and adhesive lined.


----------



## rapids

I previously used shrink wrap, but now I use peep tubing. No need for a heat gun anymore and do not have to protect the string from excessive heat.


----------



## BowStringDepot

One thing I would be concerned about with the peep tubing is added weight especially when you have a large amount of speed nocks. You definitely want to be close to what the manufacturer recommends. Or weigh it out and cut back on the speed nocks. 


Hutch


----------



## lunghit

I stopped using the peep tubing and went to a heat gun and shrink wrap. I use pieces of aluminum foil on both ends of the wrap to protect the string but this is probably not even needed. Move the gun around and you are done in seconds. I hated putting the tubing through a nice new end loop and then using dish soap as lube to slide it down the serving and over the nocks. Shrink wrap is so much easier.


----------



## BowStringDepot

I used a wind proof torch off of ebay. Nothing needed throw the string in the super server spin it and heat the tube. The spinning helped keep it cool and even heat. 
4 Pack Eagle Butane Torch Lighter Gun Windproof Adjustable Jet Flame Refillable | eBay 
we use to refill them all the time


----------



## lunghit

automan26 said:


> I've discovered a way to repair the bumps which works 80% of the time. Locate the bump, then stretch the string to 100#. Use a hairdryer to warm the string until the wax melts to where the area around the bump looks like it's coated with water. Using a D-loop cord, stiffly burnish over the bump, then tighten the string to 300# and let the wax cool before letting down. The idea is to soften the wax inside the bump so that when it cools it becomes a binder, gluing the strands around the bump back together. This goes hand in hand with Huntinsker's theory of crumple zones. When the wax solidifies it becomes a glue, binding the crumple zone internally.
> 
> Automan


This definitely worked. I found a bump on my string and did this tip mentioned above. I was too afraid to heat the string too much but I got it warm enough to really take that bump out. It didn't take much heating to do it. Thanks for the tip here.


----------



## automan26

Awesome!!! I've had success using the hairdryer trick and I'm happy to hear that someone else has had the same results. I think it's now safe to say this may indeed be a tried and true remedy.

Automan


----------



## lunghit

automan26 said:


> Awesome!!! I've had success using the hairdryer trick and I'm happy to hear that someone else has had the same results. I think it's now safe to say this may indeed be a tried and true remedy.
> 
> Automan


Yes. I am going to try a few new tips to avoid them all together but if they appear it's a quick fix.


----------



## MultifuelA2

I just got an NW Spinner in the mail and gave it a whirl on a string I had in the jig. Right off the bat I think it's a great tool addition. Along with an order of brownell rampage & plenty of chinese braid I'm sure it'll earn its keep.


----------



## lunghit

NW Spinner is a great tool. I have been using mine for years now.


----------



## jrm81

400 pages. Wow.

We'll, I've taken a 6 year hiatus from building strings and just built my first set in 6 years a couple weeks ago. I used to be a pin striping fool, but decided to go with a standard 2 color Fury string. 

A couple observations I noticed while picking it back up and revisiting this thread.

1. My hands still get tore up with tag ends.

2. It seems like most people have switched to served end loops. I need to as well. See item 1.

3. Fury is still the bomb, but they don't make it any more?! Glad I've still got 30 spools. 

4. Butch makes great stuff and I need to upgrade. I've got one of his first black, powder coated stretchers and want to upgrade to a 6 post setup. Digging the green.

And a couple of questions...

5. What is better...Fury of 452x? I heard fury was trash. Dwagoner said so. Haha. I kid. 

6. What is everyone's go to material now?

7. Are you guys using the swinging post setup when serving end loops or fixed?


----------



## 138104

jrm81 said:


> 400 pages. Wow.
> 
> We'll, I've taken a 6 year hiatus from building strings and just built my first set in 6 years a couple weeks ago. I used to be a pin striping fool, but decided to go with a standard 2 color Fury string.
> 
> A couple observations I noticed while picking it back up and revisiting this thread.
> 
> 1. My hands still get tore up with tag ends.
> 
> 2. It seems like most people have switched to served end loops. I need to as well. See item 1.
> 
> 3. Fury is still the bomb, but they don't make it any more?! Glad I've still got 30 spools.
> 
> 4. Butch makes great stuff and I need to upgrade. I've got one of his first black, powder coated stretchers and want to upgrade to a 6 post setup. Digging the green.
> 
> And a couple of questions...
> 
> 5. What is better...Fury of 452x? I heard fury was trash. Dwagoner said so. Haha. I kid.
> 
> 6. What is everyone's go to material now?
> 
> 7. Are you guys using the swinging post setup when serving end loops or fixed?


Welcome back!

There's nothing wrong with Fury. Brownell is supposedly back in business and their latest material is Rampage. BCY 452X is still a solid choice, but X99 also has a great reputation. BCY also makes 454, which has a higher grade dyneema than 452X. I still use 452X.

There is also a new company called Bloodline. They make a material that never needs waxed. I like it, but the coating builds up in serving and looks a bit sloppy to me. However, the colors pop and the material showed no wear after 1,000 shots. I have a partial spool in flo orange I'd would send you if you want to try. It is a bit harder to work with as it is slick.

As for 4/6 post setup, I used fixed posts. I also use Butch's 4-post tension head. Works great!


----------



## 138104

Here's a set made with Bloodline.


----------



## Turborider

Jig built and first two sets done thanks to all I have learned here. 
One set for my nephew's new bow and one set for my girlfriends new bow. Now onto my bow for a new set of threads and then my cousins after that.





































Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Turborider said:


> Jig built and first two sets done thanks to all I have learned here.
> One set for my nephew's new bow and one set for my girlfriends new bow. Now onto my bow for a new set of threads and then my cousins after that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


Looking good! Congrats on your first couple sets! You might consider flipping the cable slide around so the deeper groove is in the back. That'll cross the cables below the cable rod and take pressure off of them at full draw giving longer cable life and preventing wear.


----------



## Turborider

Huntinsker said:


> Looking good! Congrats on your first couple sets! You might consider flipping the cable slide around so the deeper groove is in the back. That'll cross the cables below the cable rod and take pressure off of them at full draw giving longer cable life and preventing wear.


I'll have to double check. But I think on this bow it actually caused the cables to rub together as I did try it in different configurations

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Turborider said:


> I'll have to double check. But I think on this bow it actually caused the cables to rub together as I did try it in different configurations
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


Strings look great!

Your cable routing is wrong on the red bow. Look at the green bow and route the cables the same way.


----------



## Turborider

Perry24 said:


> Strings look great!
> 
> Your cable routing is wrong on the red bow. Look at the green bow and route the cables the same way.


I have swapped it. It brings the cables to just barely not touching. 
I am still nee to working on my own bows. Should the cables always cross below

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Turborider said:


> I have swapped it. It brings the cables to just barely not touching.
> I am still nee to working on my own bows. Should the cables always cross below
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


Yes, they should always cross below. At least I have never seen one that crosses above. 

It's ok if it they are close to touching. On some of my Elite's, I can barely get a sheet of paper between the cables.


----------



## Huntinsker

Turborider said:


> I have swapped it. It brings the cables to just barely not touching.
> I am still nee to working on my own bows. Should the cables always cross below
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


Depends on the design of the bow. Some older bows the cables will cross above. Most bows made in the past 15 years or so will cross below.


----------



## Turborider

Thanks guys. Appreciate the info and catching that for me. Always learning something new 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> Depends on the design of the bow. Some older bows the cables will cross above. Most bows made in the past 15 years or so will cross below.


Do you know of a make/model? The oldest bow I've built for was 2000 or 2001 and they crossed below. I need to wrap my head around it...haha.


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## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Do you know of a make/model? The oldest bow I've built for was 2000 or 2001 and they crossed below. I need to wrap my head around it...haha.


Something like a Jennings Buckmaster or other old bow that has the cable rod down below the grip.


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## Telldor

Holy crap this is awesome thank you so much I know it’s old but this is what I am looking for


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## automan26

If you ever need help with string building questions, there's lots of info here.

Automan


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## leoncrandall74

automan26 said:


> If you ever need help with string building questions, there's lots of info here.
> 
> Automan


I'm very strongly considering building my own strings. One of your jigs turned up in the classifieds and I'm having a hard time saying no. LOL 

Sent from my SM-G532M using Tapatalk


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## 138104

leoncrandall74 said:


> I'm very strongly considering building my own strings. One of your jigs turned up in the classifieds and I'm having a hard time saying no. LOL
> 
> Sent from my SM-G532M using Tapatalk


I would jump on it for the price he is selling it for.


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## automan26

Go for it... He will soon get jumped by the mods, like I did and the fee for selling in the classified section may hinder his ability to sell. It looks like a good jig, so get it before it's gone. You might already be too late.

Automan


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## automan26

I may be mistaken a bit. It appears that those are slightly used jigs that were built for personal use and not mass production. Anyways, jump on them quickly, you won't regret it. Heck, if I didn't already have my own jig, I'd have already purchased them.

Automan


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## automan26

Wow, nobody does stupid as well as me. I went to the classified section and saw an orange and yellow jig for $150 and incorrectly assumed those jigs were the topic of discussion. Just now I scrolled down and saw an El-Cheap-O for $115 and realized my error. OK, stupid is as stupid does. 

I'm a bit partial to the El-Cheap-O and I have been in contact with seller in the past and have seen some awesome strings come off that very jig.

Automan


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## BWBOW

Crossbow set made on a el cheapo this weekend for my son. He shot it a few times 1 twist in cable on ready to go.


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## 138104

BWBOW said:


> Crossbow set made on a el cheapo this weekend for my son. He shot it a few times 1 twist in cable on ready to go.
> 
> View attachment 7327749


Nice! What material did you use? Also, did you do anything different in your build process?


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## BWBOW

I've used D97 on compound style xbows 28 strands for awhile now but. 
I'm almost out of d97 and going to test a few with straight x99 and see how they work. Going to try 38 strands on them.
I dont do any different build process. I use the same for formula. Just its a larger bundle string be a few less twist to get same length


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## jrm81

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas. As an FYI, ive got some of my Brownell Fury lot for sale in the classifieds. Good stash to get the newbie or experienced guy rolling on some Fury. 








Sold - Brownell Fury lot for sale


Selling some of my stash of Brownell Fury. Several unopened , and barely used 1/4# and 1/8# spools. Sorry I don't have a scale so I can't give you an exact weight, but you can look at the size of the spools, compare, and do the math to get you close. $200 for the lot. Selling as a lot only...




www.archerytalk.com


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Question on single color bowstrings. I'll do tag ends. Can I tie off on 1 post do the full strand count and then tie off on the other end? I know I only have 2 tags...one on each post. I'm not sure if i am making sense but can i do this? How would i get my 2 other tags....I actually only build 1 color strings and do it like a 2 color string...but I'm wondering if I can do it any other way? Thinking it could be more stable if I can do it? 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Question on single color bowstrings. I'll do tag ends. Can I tie off on 1 post do the full strand count and then tie off on the other end? I know I only have 2 tags...one on each post. I'm not sure if i am making sense but can i do this? How would i get my 2 other tags....I actually only build 1 color strings and do it like a 2 color string...but I'm wondering if I can do it any other way? Thinking it could be more stable if I can do it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


I would tie off both tags on the same post and then take a length of string and do a false tag end on the end with no tags.


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## CKCECB

Just tie the ends off on one post and do your tag end serving. Then for the other end take a 12-18" piece of string and pull it under the bundle and you will have two "dummy" tags.


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Question on single color bowstrings. I'll do tag ends. Can I tie off on 1 post do the full strand count and then tie off on the other end? I know I only have 2 tags...one on each post. I'm not sure if i am making sense but can i do this? How would i get my 2 other tags....I actually only build 1 color strings and do it like a 2 color string...but I'm wondering if I can do it any other way? Thinking it could be more stable if I can do it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


I build single color strings just like dual color strings so I have two tag ends at each post. If you're doing single color, single bundle strings you should have two tag ends at one post. If you have one at each end, you're going to have an odd number of strands in the bundle and will not be able to evenly split the bundle to have equal number of strands on each side of the peep. That imbalance can cause peep rotation.

So, if you have 2 tag ends on one post, you can use a scrap piece of material and wrap the other end like I show in the first page when doing the bottom of a buss cable.


----------



## CKCECB

And another way you can do it is to do half of your wraps starting and ending on one post, and then do half of the wraps starting and ending on the opposite post. I've done it this way, too but I prefer doing the dummy tag end method.


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## BowStringDepot

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Question on single color bowstrings. I'll do each post. I'm not sure if i am making sense but can i do this? How would i get my 2 other tags....I actually only build 1 color strings and do it like a 2 color string...but I'm wondering if I can do it any other way? Thinking it could be more stable if I can do it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


If I understand you tie off on both ends by making it like a 2 color. But you would like to do it as a one color. What I use to do was end both on one side do a tag end. Then take a piece of string material and tag end the other end if that makes sense.


----------



## automan26

First, make a loop using about 20" of strand material.


----------



## automan26

Slide the loop behind the post and under your string.


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## automan26

Bring the ends thru the loop and pull tight to form false tag ends. At this point use the false tags to serve the loop just as you did with the two real tags on the other end.

Automan


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Is 2X end serving still a good choice with today’s aggressive cam systems? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BowStringDepot

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Is 2X end serving still a good choice with today’s aggressive cam systems?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I used .009 powergrip from BCY


----------



## 138104

BowStringDepot said:


> I used .009 powergrip from BCY


Are you using PG on just cables or strings too?


----------



## BowStringDepot

Perry24 said:


> Are you using PG on just cables or strings too?


Mostly every thing including center serving. Solved a lot of issues


----------



## 138104

BowStringDepot said:


> Mostly every thing including center serving. Solved a lot of issues


Thanks. I was thinking of ordering PG for cables and then using up my Halo for strings. The plan is to switch to PG for everything, except for loop serving. I really like .007 Halo for that.


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## automan26

When new builders ask me what servings to get for ends and centers I always tell them to start out with PG. It does a great job all around. 

Automan


----------



## MultifuelA2

Hercules braid (gray) looked on par with the other fishing line I've seen, just a tad bit smaller. The 40lb measured about .0125, just .001 smaller than the 40lb dorisea braid & halo.


----------



## automan26

I've used Hercules for a couple of years. It lays down nicely, holds well to the string and makes a very nice looking serving.

Automan


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## Pullmyfinger

automan26 said:


> When new builders ask me what servings to get for ends and centers I always tell them to start out with PG. It does a great job all around.
> 
> Automan


Automan, 
Do you prefer 0.014 Power Grip over 0.014 Halo for end serving?


----------



## automan26

I've use Halo and its OK, but I think PG holds better against serving separation. I haven't used a lot of Halo because I've found other products that do the same job for a lot less cash. Once I saw how good the Chinese stuff works I lost all interest in Halo, but I'd still hang in there for PG. I use PG when I run across some place where serving takes a beating. .014 PG makes great end serving and that's what I recomend to someone who is starting out. I think .014 PG for end serving is great and .018 is good for the center, depending on strand count and nock fit.

Automan


----------



## Pullmyfinger

automan26 said:


> I've use Halo and its OK, but I think PG holds better against serving separation. I haven't used a lot of Halo because I've found other products that do the same job for a lot less cash. Once I saw how good the Chinese stuff works I lost all interest in Halo, but I'd still hang in there for PG. I use PG when I run across some place where serving takes a beating. .014 PG makes great end serving and that's what I recomend to someone who is starting out. I think .014 PG for end serving is great and .018 is good for the center, depending on strand count and nock fit.
> 
> Automan


Thank you for the recommendation.
I have 62XS 0.021 and Powergrip 0.018 for center serving.

I was about to order some Halo 0.014 for end serving. Since I'll be building my first set of strings soon, I'll go with Powergrip. I'd rather go with the option that is better at not separating.

I figure I should stack the deck in my favor.

Thanks again.
-Mitch


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## PowerLineman83

Pullmyfinger said:


> Thank you for the recommendation.
> I have 62XS 0.021 and Powergrip 0.018 for center serving.
> 
> I was about to order some Halo 0.014 for end serving. Since I'll be building my first set of strings soon, I'll go with Powergrip. I'd rather go with the option that is better at not separating.
> 
> I figure I should stack the deck in my favor.
> 
> Thanks again.
> -Mitch


PG will be great for cables though it finishes larger than .014” Halo.

Try some 2x for your shooting string end servings. Good stuff, finishes small and is cheap. 

Hope this helps a little! [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pullmyfinger

PowerLineman83 said:


> PG will be great for cables though it finishes larger than .014” Halo.
> 
> Try some 2x for your shooting string end servings. Good stuff, finishes small and is cheap.
> 
> Hope this helps a little! [emoji6]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you.
I definitely helps. I'll add it to my cart.


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## PowerLineman83

Pullmyfinger said:


> Thank you.
> I definitely helps. I'll add it to my cart.


Oh, and the white 2x goes clear very nicely if you’re interested. I don’t even use clarifier on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Large_AL

Wow! Being very new to the community and archery, guides like this will be incredibly useful. I can't imagine how much time this must have taken you just to help others — thank you!


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## Large_AL

Can anyone speak to where they got the materials and how much it cost them to make the jig? Thanks in advance!


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## TreyDay1991

michaelgentry87 said:


> Formula I use
> 
> 4 post
> Desired length x 1.009
> 
> 2 post
> Desired length x 1.004
> 
> Twist divide final length by 1.5
> 
> 100×1.009=100 15/16
> And 100÷1.5 = 66.66 twist
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


im going to try this 2 post formula, I tried final length x 1.008 and I had to put a few extra twists in to get my length perfect. Maybe this will workout better! Thanks for the info.


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## TreyDay1991

This is an awesome looking jig. I’m trying to get some ideas on how I wanna build mine and this is definitely at the top.


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## TreyDay1991

I have a 4 post jig but I’m thinking of building one of these for stretching and twisting to make it easier. Thank you for the great information


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## RB442MIKE

I just received my 452x and decided to build a jig using stuff in the garage. I found that an old scissor jack had most of the parts needed. It has a long threaded acme rod with a hole in the bolt head, bearing, acme nut. I then found a 5.3 Chevy valve spring for the spring. Handle is a paint roller. Also used a short piece 1/2 black pipe and a couple washers. This will both twist and stretch. The bearing makes it turn real easy. Only tools used were a hand drill, 4.5 inch grinder, small wire feed welder, drill bits, 1/4 tap. The completed picture pretty much shows how it was all done. Total cost- $0 dollars. She ain’t pretty but should work. Sorry if someone already did this, I only read about 40 pages of the 403. If I enjoy string building, I’ll actually spend some money and build something nice.


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## 138104

RB442MIKE said:


> I just received my 452x and decided to build a jig using stuff in the garage. I found that an old scissor jack had most of the parts needed. It has a long threaded acme rod with a hole in the bolt head, bearing, acme nut. I then found a 5.3 Chevy valve spring for the spring. Handle is a paint roller. Also used a short piece 1/2 black pipe and a couple washers. This will both twist and stretch. The bearing makes it turn real easy. Only tools used were a hand drill, 4.5 inch grinder, small wire feed welder, drill bits, 1/4 tap. The completed picture pretty much shows how it was all done. Total cost- $0 dollars. She ain’t pretty but should work. Sorry if someone already did this, I only read about 40 pages of the 403. If I enjoy string building, I’ll actually spend some money and build something nice.
> View attachment 7339337
> View attachment 7339359


That is awesome! Nice job!


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## RB442MIKE

Thanks! If anyone wants any pics of the pieces let me know. Fun little project.


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## automan26

There's even more satisfaction to shooting a string you built yourself, knowing that it was made on a jig you designed and built yourself. That's the definition of what we call the ultimate self-sufficient archer. Great work. Be sure to post up pics of your string.

Automan


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## TreyDay1991

Great work! It amazes me how people can make something awesome out of nothing!


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Not sure if this is covered somewhere in the thread or not so I’ll ask. I want to make some stretching jigs to put on my other set of unistrut, I want to use 2 open hook eye bolts, and of course want them to be 1/4”. Does anyone know which size I should buy? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SamT

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Not sure if this is covered somewhere in the thread or not so I’ll ask. I want to make some stretching jigs to put on my other set of unistrut, I want to use 2 open hook eye bolts, and of course want them to be 1/4”. Does anyone know which size I should buy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seems I read over in another forum that the guy had issues with the 1/4" eyebolt hooks bending (straightening out) under 300# of tension. Could have been too thin of material, or just how the hooks were formed. 

Since the stretching jigs will be used just for, well, stretching, instead of measuring from, perhaps you could beef them up in size to 5/16 or 3/8".

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Not sure if this is covered somewhere in the thread or not so I’ll ask. I want to make some stretching jigs to put on my other set of unistrut, I want to use 2 open hook eye bolts, and of course want them to be 1/4”. Does anyone know which size I should buy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you want them to be 1/4", I'd use something like a 1/4" quick link instead of a hook. The hooks that size can't really handle stretching weights like a quick link can.


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## CKCECB

The 1/4" clothesline hooks I bought for my first stretcher were only rated for 80 pounds. So someone (I think Nuts n Bolts) recommended I get really beefy hooks and to what Huntinsker says and use 1/4" links to connect the string to the bigger hooks. I cannot remember what size hooks I bought because I wound up just buying an El Cheapo jig.

A 3/8" hook is rated about 225#, and a 1/2" hook is rated at 425# based on what Menard's has.


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> If you want them to be 1/4", I'd use something like a 1/4" quick link instead of a hook. The hooks that size can't really handle stretching weights like a quick link can.


Be careful with the quick links too. Apparently, they could not withstand 400# on my air stretcher. That was a pucker moment when it straightened out!


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## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Be careful with the quick links too. Apparently, they could not withstand 400# on my air stretcher. That was a pucker moment when it straightened out!


Have to screw them closed. I had one bend out straight because I forgot to close it but when they're closed, they'll go over 500lbs easy.


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## 3 Blade Rage

What brass knocks are usually used for speed knocks. I have seen both red and black. I'm making a sting for a Pse Mach 1.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## 138104

3 Blade Rage said:


> What brass knocks are usually used for speed knocks. I have seen both red and black. I'm making a sting for a Pse Mach 1.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


For PSE, it should be black nocks.


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## 3 Blade Rage

Thank you Perry!


----------



## rapids

3 Blade Rage said:


> What brass knocks are usually used for speed knocks. I have seen both red and black. I'm making a sting for a Pse Mach 1.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


Also, black are 6 grains and red are 8 grains.


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## 3 Blade Rage

rapids said:


> Also, black are 6 grains and red are 8 grains.


Great information. Thank you!

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## 3 Blade Rage

One more question. I will be using 452X. Single color Fluorescent Green. How many strands do I need for the string and control cable as well as the short uni buss cables? I have the Pse string specs download but it doesn't tell me what the factory strings are made of and how many strands.


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## bfittock

3 Blade Rage said:


> One more question. I will be using 452X. Single color Fluorescent Green. How many strands do I need for the string and control cable as well as the short uni buss cables? I have the Pse string specs download but it doesn't tell me what the factory strings are made of and how many strands.


Hi You will need 24 strands for string and cables and 16 strands for uni bass hope this helps you out regards brett


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## 3 Blade Rage

bfittock said:


> Hi You will need 24 strands for string and cables and 16 strands for uni bass hope this helps you out regards brett


Thank you!

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk


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## Happenstance

Wow what a good guide


----------



## Dustoff

Any good brand and size suggestions for heat shrink? I'm using some stuff from Home Depot but it's not quite shrinking down to the string diameter and I dont think the durability is there. I want to get some custom order stuff so I can brand my strings. I figured the think tank here could point me in a good direction.


----------



## BrapAddict

Dustoff said:


> Any good brand and size suggestions for heat shrink? I'm using some stuff from Home Depot but it's not quite shrinking down to the string diameter and I dont think the durability is there. I want to get some custom order stuff so I can brand my strings. I figured the think tank here could point me in a good direction.


Does anyone use a heat shrink with glue? Not sure how the string would like it, but when I work with electrical stuff it makes great connections.


----------



## 138104

Dustoff said:


> Any good brand and size suggestions for heat shrink? I'm using some stuff from Home Depot but it's not quite shrinking down to the string diameter and I dont think the durability is there. I want to get some custom order stuff so I can brand my strings. I figured the think tank here could point me in a good direction.


You want 1/4", 3 to 1 ratio. I buy from Electriduct on ebay or Amazon. Not sure on who does printing.


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## 138104

BrapAddict said:


> Does anyone use a heat shrink with glue? Not sure how the string would like it, but when I work with electrical stuff it makes great connections.


I know some builders use the adhesive lined shrink wrap without issue.


----------



## Dustoff

Perry24 said:


> You want 1/4", 3 to 1 ratio. I buy from Electriduct on ebay or Amazon. Not sure on who does printing.


Awesome! Thank you for the information.


----------



## lunghit

Perry24 said:


> I know some builders use the adhesive lined shrink wrap without issue.


I use adhesive lined with no problems. I remember seeing a few big name builders say to use it so I did. I like it much better than the peep tubing I used to use.


----------



## Huntinsker

Dustoff said:


> Any good brand and size suggestions for heat shrink? I'm using some stuff from Home Depot but it's not quite shrinking down to the string diameter and I dont think the durability is there. I want to get some custom order stuff so I can brand my strings. I figured the think tank here could point me in a good direction.


You might contact these guys. I know the owner has done some custom shrink tube printing for some builders in the past. Not sure if he's still doing it though. Second To None Bowstrings and Archery Supplies


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## Dustoff

Huntinsker said:


> You might contact these guys. I know the owner has done some custom shrink tube printing for some builders in the past. Not sure if he's still doing it though. Second To None Bowstrings and Archery Supplies


I'll give them a shout. Thank you.


----------



## whitetail archer

Good job. Thanks for posting


----------



## BowStringDepot

SECOND 2 NONE BOWSTRINGS - Custom Compound Bowstrings, all makes and models % can print on shrink tube. Its flat tube and can't be adhesive filled because it will not lay flat.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

First ever go at a pinstripe


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> First ever go at a pinstripe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks good. Some professional builders charge extra for that 😃


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Huntinsker said:


> Looks good. Some professional builders charge extra for that [emoji2]


After going through it I can understand why. I thought about using some extra golf tees to keep the pinstripe out, which in hindsight I guess I should have. What I did was tie some serving material to it. After I initially stretched it I relaxed it and pulled the pinstripe out in places it tucked back in.

Are most guys using just 2 strands (one on each side) for the layup process? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> After going through it I can understand why. I thought about using some extra golf tees to keep the pinstripe out, which in hindsight I guess I should have. What I did was tie some serving material to it. After I initially stretched it I relaxed it and pulled the pinstripe out in places it tucked back in.
> 
> Are most guys using just 2 strands (one on each side) for the layup process?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I use 2 wraps. This is how I separate my pins.


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> After going through it I can understand why. I thought about using some extra golf tees to keep the pinstripe out, which in hindsight I guess I should have. What I did was tie some serving material to it. After I initially stretched it I relaxed it and pulled the pinstripe out in places it tucked back in.
> 
> Are most guys using just 2 strands (one on each side) for the layup process?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Depends on the material and how thick they want the pins to show up. I do 4 total, 2 each side when using Fury but if I'm doing a single pin like you did, I do 2 strands.


----------



## BowStringDepot

Here is what we called a tiger pinstripe and pinstripe. Its much more difficult to lay up and do but it looks cool. When we were in the biz we made tons of them


----------



## BowStringDepot




----------



## PowerLineman83

BowStringDepot said:


> Here is what we called a tiger pinstripe and pinstripe. Its much more difficult to lay up and do but it looks cool. When we were in the biz we made tons of them
> View attachment 7345706


Quit showing off, old man! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bfittock

Pin stripes are doing my head in just trying to get them to sit flush between both other colours im sure its the way I position my string separate would be greatly appreciated if someone could help me out with there process the way they insert golf tees ect to get the pins to lay right cheers


----------



## 138104

bfittock said:


> Pin stripes are doing my head in just trying to get them to sit flush between both other colours im sure its the way I position my string separate would be greatly appreciated if someone could help me out with there process the way they insert golf tees ect to get the pins to lay right cheers


I put tees below and above the pinstripe. Then, I put tees in to pull the stripe away from the 2 primary colors. Also, wrap some spare material around the pins so you can pull the pin out if it gets buried. I hope this picture helps.


----------



## Huntinsker

bfittock said:


> Pin stripes are doing my head in just trying to get them to sit flush between both other colours im sure its the way I position my string separate would be greatly appreciated if someone could help me out with there process the way they insert golf tees ect to get the pins to lay right cheers


This post shows the simplest way to separate for pinstripes. 3 tees. one between the pirmary colors with one pin above and one below it and then one tee to push the pins out to the sides. 









The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide


New string




www.archerytalk.com


----------



## fmlyarcher

Does anyone have a good source of serving lengths and locations? I'm getting a VXR31.5 in a week and I'd like to build the string/cables/yokes for it. Typically I take the measurements off the bows directly, but I would think that this information would be somewhere? Google was no help other than the overall lengths.


----------



## BowStringDepot

PowerLineman83 said:


> Quit showing off, old man!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you out of Dippers yet? Ha!


----------



## Huntinsker

fmlyarcher said:


> Does anyone have a good source of serving lengths and locations? I'm getting a VXR31.5 in a week and I'd like to build the string/cables/yokes for it. Typically I take the measurements off the bows directly, but I would think that this information would be somewhere? Google was no help other than the overall lengths.


Strings and arrows forum. There are 2 sticky threads up top that you can search for specs in. Really though, with any Mathews, it's best to measure from the actual bow. Their advertised specs are pretty bad a lot of the time. Not as bad on the dual cams but the single cam specs are garbage.


----------



## PowerLineman83

BowStringDepot said:


> Are you out of Dippers yet? Ha!


 Barely!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lunghit

What is everyone's opinion on Powergrip .009 for end serving? I have seen it talked about here but always stayed with my tried and true Halo and Angel Majesty. I just ordered a spool to try on my next build but just want to make sure it can hold up on those tricky cable areas. Thanks


----------



## fmlyarcher

Huntinsker said:


> Strings and arrows forum. There are 2 sticky threads up top that you can search for specs in. Really though, with any Mathews, it's best to measure from the actual bow. Their advertised specs are pretty bad a lot of the time. Not as bad on the dual cams but the single cam specs are garbage.


Thanks!!


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> What is everyone's opinion on Powergrip .009 for end serving? I have seen it talked about here but always stayed with my tried and true Halo and Angel Majesty. I just ordered a spool to try on my next build but just want to make sure it can hold up on those tricky cable areas. Thanks


Not used the .009 diameter but have used .014 on some harsh buss cables that chewed right through Halo. So far the powergrip has held up better for me. My wife's bow was one that Halo only lasted a couple hundred shots on. The powergrip has lasted thousands of shots without wearing much at all.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Not used the .009 diameter but have used .014 on some harsh buss cables that chewed right through Halo. So far the powergrip has held up better for me. My wife's bow was one that Halo only lasted a couple hundred shots on. The powergrip has lasted thousands of shots without wearing much at all.


Thats good to know. I want to keep 24 strands on my next build but wanted to keep the diameter down a little so thats why I decided to try the .009. Hope it works out. When it comes to end serving Angel Majesty has been my favorite so far. Powergrip for center has been perfect so I hope the thinner stuff will hold up.


----------



## BWBOW

Just finished this 1. 24 strands of 452x and powergrip .014. Its the best stuff for the hard bends on the turbo cam


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## 138104

BWBOW said:


> View attachment 7346752
> Just finished this 1. 24 strands of 452x and powergrip .014. Its the best stuff for the hard bends on the turbo cam


Looks great! Any idea what the finished diameter was using .014 PG?


----------



## BWBOW

3d finished .1120. This was on the main string

.14 powergrip. .1055. This was on cable and buss ends i put this on about as tight as you can go with breaking the material 

.08 spectra going thru rollers .0995

Mind you she is old as them seem a bit smaller diameter then should be.


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## BowStringDepot

I used powergrip to help in those tough spots on cables and end loops and by far for center serving. By no means was it a cure all. Some bows were just plain tough on serving like Bowtechs. But it sure did its job and was worth using even over halo. 

Hutch


----------



## RB442MIKE

Just finished my first one. 24 strands of 452x and .014 powergrip for the end serving .018 for the center. Plenty of room for improvement but this is probably the most satisfying thing I’ve made in a while. 
Mike


----------



## Huntinsker

RB442MIKE said:


> Just finished my first one. 24 strands of 452x and .014 powergrip for the end serving .018 for the center. Plenty of room for improvement but this is probably the most satisfying thing I’ve made in a while.
> Mike
> View attachment 7347856


Good job. The twist rate looks pretty even. That's something that you'll see vary a lot, even among professional builders. I believe that one of the things that separates a high volume builder to a custom or "hobby" builder is the attention to detail and the twist rate of each individual piece is a detail that many overlook.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Is NWSpinner still in business? I tied clicking on the website a few times and it just times out in me? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BowStringDepot

not sure what is happening it just spins and doesn't open


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Is NWSpinner still in business? I tied clicking on the website a few times and it just times out in me?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


b0w_bender is his name on here. Might try sending him a PM.


----------



## Bcorb

View attachment 7348418
*flame/kiwi green/ black pin*


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## Stouff_PAhunter

Trying my first go at served end loops

So do I add my twists and then serve the end serving as normal, or do I have to close it first?











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Trying my first go at served end loops
> 
> So do I add my twists and then serve the end serving as normal, or do I have to close it first?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No need to close. Twist and serve. What material is that?

Edit: it looks like you melted the ends. This might show as little bumps when you serve over it. I just pull mine tight and clip without melting.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Perry24 said:


> No need to close. Twist and serve. What material is that?
> 
> Edit: it looks like you melted the ends. This might show as little bumps when you serve over it. I just pull mine tight and clip without melting.


It’s bloodline 99

And thanks for the tip on not burning the ends

Also. Is this too tight of a twist ratio? My first measurement was long so I had to add twists 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> It’s bloodline 99
> 
> And thanks for the tip on not burning the ends
> 
> Also. Is this too tight of a twist ratio? My first measurement was long so I had to add twists
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think you'll be ok as long as the peep doesn't twist on you. Did you use Bloodline's calculator?

What serving did you use for the loops?


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Perry24 said:


> I think you'll be ok as long as the peep doesn't twist on you. Did you use Bloodline's calculator?
> 
> What serving did you use for the loops?


I didn’t do the bloodline calculator exactly. I have a homemade jig and I broke one of the pins at one point. So I have to build it on a 3 post setup. So I was trying to do some math and I messed up somewhere.

My end loops were served with Spectra .008 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dustoff

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Trying my first go at served end loops
> 
> So do I add my twists and then serve the end serving as normal, or do I have to close it first?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do you like the Bloodline 99? I've only ever used the VEC-99 and I love it.


----------



## SamT

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Also. Is this too tight of a twist ratio? My first measurement was long so I had to add twists


I've seen twist rate multiplayers from .5 - 1 per inch. Very common multiplayers used are .67 and .75 per inch which are pretty much middle of the road, so if you need to add or subtract a few twists, no biggie.


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Dustoff said:


> How do you like the Bloodline 99? I've only ever used the VEC-99 and I love it.


All I have used since I started building is Bloodline material. So I cant compare it to anything else. That being said.....I really like it!

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Here's a patriotic set I finished tonight for a friend. The material is 452X.


----------



## lunghit

Perry24 said:


> Here's a patriotic set I finished tonight for a friend. The material is 452X.


Those look real nice!


----------



## b0w_bender

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> Is NWSpinner still in business? I tied clicking on the website a few times and it just times out in me?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ya I had some issues with my server it was a 12 year old laptop that died when we had a recent power failure but it should be back up now on a shinny new PC.


----------



## lunghit

b0w_bender said:


> Ya I had some issues with my server it was a 12 year old laptop that died when we had a recent power failure but it should be back up now on a shinny new PC.


I should buy a second one just in case. Your spinner has been one of the best tools I have ever bought.


----------



## lunghit

Got a question about making end servings at the loops. While serving towards the end loop when I get to the end where the loop starts to spread I loosen the string jig tension to about 100 pounds and also loosen the serving jig tension while I finish the serving. I do pull tight on the serving jig while finishing up the run. Is this the recommended way of doing this? I have slight serving separation in this area on one of the cables I just made and was wondering why. Thanks


----------



## 138104

Is this on your Reckoning? That s-turn is brutal on serving.

I don't take tension off the string, but do back off tension on the serving jig.


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## lunghit

Perry24 said:


> Is this on your Reckoning? That s-turn is brutal on serving.
> 
> I don't take tension off the string, but do back off tension on the serving jig.


Yes its on one cable on that S-turn. The cables I made for my Revolt X with Angel Majesty don't have the slightest separation after thousands of shots. The Reckoning with some Powergrip has a little separation on that S-turn. Maybe next time I'll leave the string at 300 like you do. That is a rough area for sure and I'm surprised there aren't more issues with them.


----------



## 138104

lunghit said:


> Yes its on one cable on that S-turn. The cables I made for my Revolt X with Angel Majesty don't have the slightest separation after thousands of shots. The Reckoning with some Powergrip has a little separation on that S-turn. Maybe next time I'll leave the string at 300 like you do. That is a rough area for sure and I'm surprised there aren't more issues with them.


Maybe re-serve one cable with AM and see if that holds up better than PG? 

I built new 24-strand 452X cables for my Reckoning and used halo since I didn't have white PG. The one cable is fine, but the other one has just a bit of separation where the tag is.


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## rapids

As I get towards the end, I back off the tension on the string to around 50 - 75 pounds. This helps the string compress together as I finish up the serving.


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## lunghit

rapids said:


> As I get towards the end, I back off the tension on the string to around 50 - 75 pounds. This helps the string compress together as I finish up the serving.


That’s pretty much what I always did and always worked great. Maybe I did something different and didn’t realize it. I’ll probably reserve that area with Angel Majesty and see what happens. Thanks


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## rapids

lunghit said:


> That’s pretty much what I always did and always worked great. Maybe I did something different and didn’t realize it. I’ll probably reserve that area with Angel Majesty and see what happens. Thanks


I also use Angel Majesty and it has worked out great so far. Good luck!


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## eja

I just finished my jig and i'm starting to order some supplies. Where do I get speed noks? Also where to find factory strings specs?


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## 138104

eja said:


> I just finished my jig and i'm starting to order some supplies. Where do I get speed noks? Also where to find factory strings specs?


You can used Saunders nocks as speed nocks. I would have red and black on hand as it varies between manufacturers. Another option is ordering speed stacks from GAS. You just need to call them to order.

Also, order some 1/4" shrink wrap, 3 to 1 ratio to cover the speed nocks. 

Here's a good place to start for serving and string specs.









Attn: String Makers Part 2


I'll keep the old thread available, this new one will help speed things up for you Guys.




www.archerytalk.com













Attn: String Makers


How would all stringmakers like to start a string -cable lengths as well as serve lengths thread. I have spoke with a few of they string makers here on AT about this ,they like it. Please respond to this thread if you like the idea,it only helps us all out!!!




www.archerytalk.com


----------



## eja

Perry24 said:


> You can used Saunders nocks as speed nocks. I would have red and black on hand as it varies between manufacturers. Another option is ordering speed stacks from GAS. You just need to call them to order.
> 
> Also, order some 1/4" shrink wrap, 3 to 1 ratio to cover the speed nocks.
> 
> Here's a good place to start for serving and string specs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attn: String Makers Part 2
> 
> 
> I'll keep the old thread available, this new one will help speed things up for you Guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.archerytalk.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attn: String Makers
> 
> 
> How would all stringmakers like to start a string -cable lengths as well as serve lengths thread. I have spoke with a few of they string makers here on AT about this ,they like it. Please respond to this thread if you like the idea,it only helps us all out!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.archerytalk.com


Awesome! Thanks


----------



## nuthinbutnock

lunghit said:


> Yes its on one cable on that S-turn. The cables I made for my Revolt X with Angel Majesty don't have the slightest separation after thousands of shots. The Reckoning with some Powergrip has a little separation on that S-turn. Maybe next time I'll leave the string at 300 like you do. That is a rough area for sure and I'm surprised there aren't more issues with them.


You’ll want to make sure you’re building those cables with 22 strands not 24. I know it sounds dumb but it will solve your separation issue. Power grip over halo will help too. Bowtech strings and cables are aren’t built with 24 strands for this reason, you’ll find most of their bows call for 20 strands on some and 22 on others 

When serving I serve at 300 Lbs and back off to 100 as I serve the loop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

nuthinbutnock said:


> You’ll want to make sure you’re building those cables with 22 strands not 24. I know it sounds dumb but it will solve your separation issue. Power grip over halo will help too. Bowtech strings and cables are aren’t built with 24 strands for this reason, you’ll find most of their bows call for 20 strands on some and 22 on others
> 
> When serving I serve at 300 Lbs and back off to 100 as I serve the loop
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you stretch before twisting? What poundage do you stretch at?


----------



## nuthinbutnock

Perry24 said:


> Do you stretch before twisting? What poundage do you stretch at?


No I twist before stretching and I stretch at 400lbs 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 138104

nuthinbutnock said:


> No I twist before stretching and I stretch at 400lbs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any particular reason you serve at 300#? I was twisting, then stretching at 400#, then serving at 400#. I recently changed to stretching at 350# before twisting, but still serving at 400#. I had to adjust my formula a bit, but it is a little quicker and am getting the same results.


----------



## frknorc16

Do bowstrings factories heat treating the bowstrings they build?
How much maximum (° C) heat treatment should be done?


----------



## automan26

Heat treating is not part of the build process. The large string building companies simply don't have the time, plus it would accomplish nothing.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

frknorc16 said:


> Do bowstrings factories heat treating the bowstrings they build?
> How much maximum (° C) heat treatment should be done?


High volume builders barely take the time to stretch them let alone adding heat to the process. I've seen some people warm their strings with a hair dryer but to me, there's more risk than reward. If the strings are properly laid out and stretched, there will be little to no creep if the string is heated or not.


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## InKYfromSD

*Using Hercules, Dorisea, etc for recurve strings?*

I realize this thread is for compound strings, but you guys know your stuff. My apologies in advance. It seems like using UHMWPE material for end loops on recurve strings would work and save money. However, someone mentioned above that Hercules, Dorisea, etc resist abrasion better than the standard serving materials. Does this also mean that it will abrade the string grooves on recurve limbs?


----------



## Huntinsker

InKYfromSD said:


> *Using Hercules, Dorisea, etc for recurve strings?*
> 
> I realize this thread is for compound strings, but you guys know your stuff. My apologies in advance. It seems like using UHMWPE material for end loops on recurve strings would work and save money. However, someone mentioned above that Hercules, Dorisea, etc resist abrasion better than the standard serving materials. Does this also mean that it will abrade the string grooves on recurve limbs?


Hard to say if it "will" or not without trying it but I doubt it would. Fishing lines are made to resist abrasion from rocks and cover that fish are hiding in so some braids use more fibers to give a smoother finish. Braids with 8 fibers are very smooth to touch but because of that, they don't hold tightly on a bow string going around bends like on a compound cam. They'd probably do very well on a recurve though as long as you can keep it from separating on a loop. The smooth texture would also be easy on the string grooves of a recurve. 

That said, there are a lot of people that serve recurve strings with Halo and that's a 4 strand braid just like any other 4 strand UHMWPE fishing line so you'll probably be just fine either way.


----------



## InKYfromSD

Huntsinker, thanks for the insight. I ordered a spool from Amazon to try out. I'll report back after seeing how it works out.


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## automan26

A guy I know was kicking thru the rubble of a burned, and knocked-down building when he stumbled across an old, trashed Nuclear Ice. He wondered if it could be put back into shooting condition for his young daughter, so he asked me to give it a shot. I'm sure this will put a big smile on a young girl's face. It's amazing what a new set of strings and a little TLC can do for a cast-off bow.

Automan


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## rapids

Great looking threads automan.......she should be a happy camper!


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## bowbrothersmdb

Damn! When did this thread hit 1 000 000 views!! Well done to all!


----------



## Huntinsker

bowbrothersmdb said:


> Damn! When did this thread hit 1 000 000 views!! Well done to all!


Wow! I hadn't even noticed. That's a testament to the quality of the people and content in this thread. Most by now would have devolved into chaos and been locked by the mods for one reason or another but we've managed to just be "archers helping archers" and it's still going. 

🍻


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## bfittock

Hi guys just a quick question how many strands of brownell fury are yous using on Mathew small yoke and pse evolve cam yokes cheers regards Brett


----------



## Huntinsker

bfittock said:


> Hi guys just a quick question how many strands of brownell fury are yous using on Mathew small yoke and pse evolve cam yokes cheers regards Brett


18-20 on PSE and 20-24 on Mathews if you use .007 or .008 serving.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

For yokes on any bow, I tend to just use 2/3 of the strands of the main/cables... seems to work.. (mostly Mathews and PSE)

Tom


----------



## TN ARCHER

Any one tried to run 24 strands in PSE yokes?


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

TN ARCHER said:


> Any one tried to run 24 strands in PSE yokes?


24 strands of ? .... 24 strands of white X99 is a lot thinner than 24 strands of flo.green X :-D 

I don’t really see a need to use more than 18 strands of anything for yokes, I’ve stress tested 8 strand strings to 400# before, so happy with a 2+ safety factor

T


----------



## TN ARCHER

Yeah 18 is what I have made them too. Bowmar makes a "splitter" or "saddle",,,whatever you want to call it, that will take up to 24 strands. I ordered a couple to try, along with other goodies.


----------



## rapids

My wife has an old Mathews Ultra 2 that she does not use as she now has an Elite Spirit. My 12 year old grandson wants to switch from a Little Bear recurve to a compound bow. Before the switch, I want to build a new set of threads for the Ultra 2.....it is a solo cam, so it only has one yoke. The last time the string and cable was changed, the builder made it with a floating yoke instead of a split yoke ( see pictures ). So, my question is, should I build the new cable with a floating yoke or a split yoke? Is there any advantage of one over the other?


----------



## Huntinsker

rapids said:


> My wife has an old Mathews Ultra 2 that she does not use as she now has an Elite Spirit. My 12 year old grandson wants to switch from a Little Bear recurve to a compound bow. Before the switch, I want to build a new set of threads for the Ultra 2.....it is a solo cam, so it only has one yoke. The last time the string and cable was changed, the builder made it with a floating yoke instead of a split yoke ( see pictures ). So, my question is, should I build the new cable with a floating yoke or a split yoke? Is there any advantage of one over the other?
> View attachment 7384336
> View attachment 7384337


There are no advantages to a floating yoke and actually if you ever want to yoke tune the bow, they're a disadvantage. I make all yokes split yokes, unless there's a manufacturers reason not to, so that the bows can use that for another tuning option.


----------



## rapids

Huntinsker said:


> There are no advantages to a floating yoke and actually if you ever want to yoke tune the bow, they're a disadvantage. I make all yokes split yokes, unless there's a manufacturers reason not to, so that the bows can use that for another tuning option.


I was kind of thinking the same thing, but wanted to get another opinion. Thanks Huntinsker.


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## yennkb

Thanks for this thread and the videos on the string jig. Made A jig and a set of strings with x-99.




  








string jig.jpg




__
yennkb


__
Mar 30, 2021












  








string.jpg




__
yennkb


__
Mar 30, 2021












  








bow new strings.jpg




__
yennkb


__
Mar 30, 2021


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## automan26

Nice work.... I'm confident that the string you built is, at minimum, as good as anything you could have purchased commercially and is most likely better. Nice work, now be ready to take orders...Once your buddies see those sweet threads, you'll be building for them

Automan


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## Stepping wolf

I am looking for a micro serving jig, my son and his son are getting into sligbows and they asked me to build some of the string parts. The current string portions supplied by the manufactures need a little upgrading as seen at the following. Slingbow D- Loop 
I can make one but I was just hoping someone has seen a prebuilt version.


----------



## 138104

Stepping wolf said:


> I am looking for a micro serving jig, my son and his son are getting into sligbows and they asked me to build some of the string parts. The current string portions supplied by the manufactures need a little upgrading as seen at the following. Slingbow D- Loop
> I can make one but I was just hoping someone has seen a prebuilt version.


Why do you need a micro serving jig? This reminds me of a Mathews yoke.


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## Huntinsker

Stepping wolf said:


> I am looking for a micro serving jig, my son and his son are getting into sligbows and they asked me to build some of the string parts. The current string portions supplied by the manufactures need a little upgrading as seen at the following. Slingbow D- Loop
> I can make one but I was just hoping someone has seen a prebuilt version.


This is the only mini server I know of but it's kind of useless. Bohning Mini Server

Looking at what you need to build though, I don't see a reason why a mini server would be necessary. That's just a torqueless d loop. You can serve them by hand easily enough. I'd to that before buying a little serving jig but really, a full sized serving tool should be just fine too. Here's how GRIV builds them.


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## Stepping wolf

Agreed to both of you. I am going to blame age or a brain fart.
It took me about 15 min. after posting to see the light, I may even do split yokes for the double banded options


----------



## Hoyt slayer

Been a year or so since I've dug through this thread, I was using 8190f and then I made a few strings from mercury. What's everyone's consensus on the newer materials like bloodline, or x99, or 454? significant improvements or just new marketing?


----------



## 138104

Bloodline products show a lot of promise, but VEC99 fell a bit short for me. The coating gets pulled into your serving and looks like crap and it builds larger diameter than 452X. The colors and coating are fantastic.

X99 is great compromise between 452X and Mercury. The colors are more vibrant than 452X and it is a bit softer on the shot. It is thinner, so you have flexibility with strand count.

As for 454, I have no experience with it. It is the same blend as 452X, but a higher grade Dyneema (SK99).

That's my 2 cents.


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## bfittock

Hi guys just a quick question do you prefer to serve away from the loop or towards the loop cheers regards Brett fittock


----------



## The Infidel

I serve towards the loop. My servings look better and are tighter that way than when I serve away from the loop. Neither way is wrong. Its just preference.


----------



## automan26

I always serve toward the loop. Doing this gives my serving a cleaner look when it's tied off.

Automan


----------



## BowStringDepot

Towards the loop is the way I prefer I seem to be able to close the loop better. But its not a issue to serve away either some can close the loop well and serve it just fine


----------



## Frank-the-5th

What is everyone using as far as material and strand count for prime string and cable yokes? 

I’m using 14 strands of 452x w/ .014 halo and it’s coming out just a little too big for the cam grooves. 

Thanks! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Infidel

For the yokes I'm using 14 stands of VEC-99 and .007" halo. For the cables and string I'm using 24 strands of the same material and .014" halo with .015" angel majesty. I use tag ends.


----------



## automan26

The pic I posted above happens to be a test piece for my PSE Supra Focus. I used 14 strands of flo orange and 30# Chinese. It perfectly matched the measurements I took from the factory yoke cable.... Serving .090, loop.. .060. I used flo oranges because it builds a slightly thicker string. Standard colors should work even better.

Automan


----------



## BowStringDepot

Frank-the-5th said:


> What is everyone using as far as material and strand count for prime string and cable yokes?
> 
> I’m using 14 strands of 452x w/ .014 halo and it’s coming out just a little too big for the cam grooves.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


if you drop down to .009 power grip or .007 halo you should be alright


----------



## bfittock

Hi guys I been looking at the new pse model bows and iv noticed the strand count calls for 28 strands of 452x on cables im wounding if anyone has tryed 24 strands on this system cheers regards Brett


----------



## automan26

I've never tried 24, but I personally feel it would be right on the ragged edge of OK. I wouldn't go any lower than that. 

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

bfittock said:


> Hi guys I been looking at the new pse model bows and iv noticed the strand count calls for 28 strands of 452x on cables im wounding if anyone has tryed 24 strands on this system cheers regards Brett


What model of bow? My newest bow is a 2019 Shootdown and it's only 24 of 452x. I haven't personally seen any that call for 28 of 452x. Is it for sure 452x and not X99?


----------



## rapids

I have never used 452x, but on the BCY website, they recommend 20-24 strands for compound bows.


----------



## PowerLineman83

I haven’t found a bow that 24 strands of 452x couldn’t hold. 

There are select Hoyt target bows I’ve upped strand count to lower letoff and raise holding weight.... those were super specific builds for picky target archers! [emoji6][emoji38]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bfittock

Huntinsker said:


> What model of bow? My newest bow is a 2019 Shootdown and it's only 24 of 452x. I haven't personally seen any that call for 28 of 452x. Is it for sure 452x and not X99?


Hi mate my partner has a new evl 34 I checkout the specs and they call for 28 strands on the cables this year seem rather large for 452x


----------



## Huntinsker

bfittock said:


> Hi mate my partner has a new evl 34 I checkout the specs and they call for 28 strands on the cables this year seem rather large for 452x


I agree. If he has the actual bow it would be worth relaxing it in a press and actually counting the strands. 28 would be pretty big for 452x unless they're also using smaller serving.


----------



## automan26

I think PSE increased their cable strand counts due to the newly designed tunable cable yokes. I am switching my Supra Focus to the upgraded yokes and the spec sheet from PSE calls for 28 strands of 452x on the cables. I think this is because the yoke legs are woven thru the plastic splitter and PSE wants to make sure there's enough material there to stand up to the task.

Automan


----------



## PowerLineman83

automan26 said:


> I think PSE increased their cable strand counts due to the newly designed tunable cable yokes. I am switching my Supra Focus to the upgraded yokes and the spec sheet from PSE calls for 28 strands of 452x on the cables. I think this is because the yoke legs are woven thru the plastic splitter and PSE wants to make sure there's enough material there to stand up to the task.
> 
> Automan


Interesting... kind of makes sense. That whole deal is a different animal. As long as they widened cam grooves a little it won’t be an issue. I’m sure they did, or, they had the wiggle already built in. It’s the retrofit kits that would concern me. On a standard bow, oversized finished diameters are a large contributing to excessive wear and serving separation.

Again, all things I’m sure all of you have considered as well as PSE... just makes me leery and want to think it through.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fast Ed

Where can I find the string diagrams and serving measurements?


----------



## automan26

Fast Ed said:


> Where can I find the string diagrams and serving measurements?


I wish I knew. The one I got for my bow was one someone else had and he gave it to me. I'm not sure how he got it. 

Automan


----------



## 138104

Fast Ed said:


> Where can I find the string diagrams and serving measurements?





automan26 said:


> I wish I knew. The one I got for my bow was one someone else had and he gave it to me. I'm not sure how he got it.
> 
> Automan


Here are the PSE specs.



PSE OEM STRINGS - Box


----------



## automan26

ThanX... Those charts will be a big help.

Automan


----------



## Thestudent

PowerLineman83 said:


> Interesting... kind of makes sense. That whole deal is a different animal. As long as they widened cam grooves a little it won’t be an issue. I’m sure they did, or, they had the wiggle already built in. It’s the retrofit kits that would concern me. On a standard bow, oversized finished diameters are a large contributing to excessive wear and serving separation.
> 
> Again, all things I’m sure all of you have considered as well as PSE... just makes me leery and want to think it through.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The new control cable yokes work out to be the same diameter as the old buss cables. So there is or was no need to change the cam groves. It makes for a larger overall control cable but as far as how and what wraps around the cams there is no difference at all. 
The only thing im not fond of is they are not serving the area where the roller guide contact's these cables.


----------



## Huntinsker

Fast Ed said:


> Where can I find the string diagrams and serving measurements?


Go to the arrows and strings forum and search the sticky threads at the top of the forum.


----------



## automan26

Here's the cable chart for my Supra Focus. I'm in the midst of building a batch of El-Cheap-Os, but when finished I'll be upgrading my cables.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

Thestudent said:


> The new control cable yokes work out to be the same diameter as the old buss cables. So there is or was no need to change the cam groves. It makes for a larger overall control cable but as far as how and what wraps around the cams there is no difference at all.
> The only thing im not fond of is they are not serving the area where the roller guide contact's these cables.


If the cable is now made with 28 strands of 452x instead of 24 strands of 452x, how is it not any larger?


----------



## 138104

Thestudent said:


> The new control cable yokes work out to be the same diameter as the old buss cables. So there is or was no need to change the cam groves. It makes for a larger overall control cable but as far as how and what wraps around the cams there is no difference at all.
> The only thing im not fond of is they are not serving the area where the roller guide contact's these cables.


Which bow? The Supra that Automan posted shows serving for the roller guard.


----------



## Thestudent

Huntinsker said:


> If the cable is now made with 28 strands of 452x instead of 24 strands of 452x, how is it not any larger?



I didn't mean the actual control cable it's self. I was referring to the individual yokes themselves in relation to the older style buss cables found on previous years models.

The person I was quoting made a comment about needing to enlarge the cam tracks on the cams. This is not the case because nothing there has changed. The finished diameter of either of the 2 systems when it's wrapping around the cam tracks is the exact same. All pse did was eliminate 2 cables and give you more tunability.


----------



## Thestudent

Perry24 said:


> Which bow? The Supra that Automan posted shows serving for the roller guard.


The embark and a Evo 34


----------



## Huntinsker

Thestudent said:


> I didn't mean the actual control cable it's self. I was referring to the individual yokes themselves in relation to the older style buss cables found on previous years models.
> 
> The person I was quoting made a comment about needing to enlarge the cam tracks on the cams. This is not the case because nothing there has changed. The finished diameter of either of the 2 systems when it's wrapping around the cam tracks is the exact same. All pse did was eliminate 2 cables and give you more tunability.


With the "tunable" yoke splitter that they have now, the yoke is not separate from the body of the cable and is made like a traditional buss cable. That means that the body of the cable will have 28 strands and the yoke legs will each have 14. That will make the body of the cable larger diameter.


----------



## Huntinsker

Thestudent said:


> The embark and a Evo 34


The Evo EVL 34 in the specs that Perry shared shows the roller serving but the Embark doesn't.


----------



## Thestudent

Huntinsker said:


> With the "tunable" yoke splitter that they have now, the yoke is not separate from the body of the cable and is made like a traditional buss cable. That means that the body of the cable will have 28 strands and the yoke legs will each have 14. That will make the body of the cable larger diameter.


I know what your saying. Your obviously not understanding what I'm getting at 

Never shot factory uni buss cable from a 2019 evoke.



Now a brand new embark still has the tags on it never been fired



I'm sorry I tried to pass on an observation that I had made in trying to figure out how to build this newer style. I believe I even emailed you this when I got one of the first production embarks.


----------



## 138104

Can you measure the non-spilt end? That would have the full 28 strands and I would think it would be thicker than the cable end from prior to conversion to the new splitter.


----------



## Thestudent

Perry24 said:


> Can you measure the non-spilt end? That would have the full 28 strands and I would think it would be thicker than the cable end from prior to conversion to the new splitter.


----------



## Huntinsker

I just measured my 2019 Shootdown factory cable and the finished diameter is .102" at the cable end. So it's .018" smaller than the one on your Embark. That's what I'm saying will be different. The yokes used to be built separately and they used 14 strands in them which is why they measure the same to the new cables.

I see what you were talking about now.


----------



## danbran

This is awesome - thanks!


----------



## PowerLineman83

Thestudent said:


> The new control cable yokes work out to be the same diameter as the old buss cables. So there is or was no need to change the cam groves. It makes for a larger overall control cable but as far as how and what wraps around the cams there is no difference at all.
> The only thing im not fond of is they are not serving the area where the roller guide contact's these cables.


Yeah, I’m not worried about the let out side(where the yokes used to be). I’m more concerned with finished diameters on the take up side of cams. As I mentioned, it’s been done in other bows, just curious how it was working on the PSEs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bfittock

I think I'll build a set with x99 or brownell fury for this new pse system I'll still use 28 strands I think it will fit better just a tad smaller maybe 30 strands on the fury im a big fan of fury let the testing begin thanks for all the inputs guys I'll look for to seeing some results with this new system happy string building thanks regards Brett fittock


----------



## bowenginerd

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7412491
> 
> Here's the cable chart for my Supra Focus. I'm in the midst of building a batch of El-Cheap-Os, but when finished I'll be upgrading my cables.
> 
> Automan


Nice looking build sheet, is that directly from PSE?


----------



## automan26

Yes... It's from PSE.

Automan


----------



## automan26

I just went to Brownell's website and it looks like they may be selling product again. Is this just wishful thinking on my part, or are they back? I really miss those guys.

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

automan26 said:


> I just went to Brownell's website and it looks like they may be selling product again. Is this just wishful thinking on my part, or are they back? I really miss those guys.
> 
> Automan


Let's hope so.


----------



## 138104

automan26 said:


> I just went to Brownell's website and it looks like they may be selling product again. Is this just wishful thinking on my part, or are they back? I really miss those guys.
> 
> Automan





Huntinsker said:


> Let's hope so.


I messaged them on Facebook last night, so I'll let you know if I get a response.


----------



## automan26

I just got an email reply from Brownell. They expect to start shipping product in about one month. It may still be awhile before retailers are totally up to speed, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. 

I can't wait. I'm going to purchase the first spool of Rhino that hits the shelf. I've been waiting a long time for this.

Automan


----------



## 138104

automan26 said:


> I just got an email reply from Brownell. They expect to start shipping product in about one month. It may still be awhile before retailers are totally up to speed, but there's light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> I can't wait. I'm going to purchase the first spool of Rhino that hits the shelf. I've been waiting a long time for this.
> 
> Automan


I've never used Brownell's material, so looking forward to trying it.


----------



## tpcollins

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7395706
> 
> 
> I always serve toward the loop. Doing this gives my serving a cleaner look when it's tied off.
> 
> Automan



I assume you back serve this end? How many turns do you use?

I’d be afraid I couldn’t keeps it tight enough.


----------



## 138104

tpcollins said:


> I assume you back serve this end? How many turns do you use?
> 
> I’d be afraid I couldn’t keeps it tight enough.


Do a "nail knot" using a piece of string material. No issues keeping it tight. I do 15 turns.


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> I've never used Brownell's material, so looking forward to trying it.


If it's the same quality and consistency, you're going to like it. The color and even the wax texture is superior and lends to a very clean finished string/cable. Not sure what it is about the wax that's different but it's just so much smoother and nicer to work with.


----------



## bfittock

Hi guys what size Chinese fishing braied do you use for end loops and cam serving and brand type iv seen this mentioned a few times though id give some a go on a few test string cheers regards Brett


----------



## alara325

When determining the length of serving, do y’all measure at 100lbs of tension or more? Does one measure right before it’s about to be serve? 


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## The Infidel

Yes, measure at 100 lbs. Right after I measure and make a mark, I apply 350 lbs of tension and serve to my marks.

I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


----------



## JF from VA

I am getting ready to upgrade my serving jigs to Beiter. Lancaster is showing three different models of Beiter jigs: regular, heavy, and extra heavy. What type would current Beiter users recommend? They also show some tools that I am not familiar with: winder twister attachment and a serving shifter. Any idea what these tools are for?


----------



## CKCECB

Extra heavy if you are doing it by hand. I have the winder and it's helpful, effectively making the jig wider to span more of the string and takes out some of the wobble. I didn't bother with the shifter thing, I use needle nose pliers for goofs. I ordered mine (Extra heavy jig, the winder attachment, and string separators) from Alternative Services in England, all of it shipped for the same price that Lancaster was listing just the jig.


----------



## Racinray

Just picked up a Beiter myself. Was testing it out on a bow scale to set poundage,wow is it smooth and stays consistent!
I have a few cheap ones that won’t be getting much use anymore.


----------



## Fast Ed

Is .021 a good thread for center serving?


----------



## PowerLineman83

Fast Ed said:


> Is .021 a good thread for center serving?


It depends on your string’s strand count and what serving material you’re using. Also, what nock? You may have to adjust strand count or serving size to hit the exact finished diameters YOU need.

24 strands of 452x and .021” 62xs
24 strands of 452x and .018” Powergrip
24 strands of 452x and .021” Angel Majesty

All worked well for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fast Ed

It is the 24 count of 452x and .021” of 62xs I want to use. I’m using bloodsport hunter extreme arrow.
Thank you PowerLineman83


----------



## PowerLineman83

Fast Ed said:


> It is the 24 count of 452x and .021” of 62xs I want to use. I’m using bloodsport hunter extreme arrow.
> Thank you PowerLineman83


No problem. Again it may take some tinkering to get it just right. I can’t say I’ve used those particular arrows so I’m not sure what nocks are in them and what the nocks like. 

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Joshf303 said:


> .


You know people check your post history to see if you're actually contributing before they deal with you in the classifieds? Looking at your history of spam posts with nothing but a couple spaces and a period, no one will think you're worth risking their product or their money.


----------



## Racinray

Any good pics of a Flo purple and a regular purple 2 color strings ? Wonder how it would look on my stone w/ black limb VXR


----------



## nthn3875

Just getting back into archery after quite a few years off and I think the bow could benefit from some new strings. Spent a couple weeks lurking through this thread and I think I'm about ready to jump into making a string jig! I just have a couple questions:

Looks like most are suggesting 452X and Halo/PG for starting out. Where has everyone found to be the best place to order smaller quantities of supplies from? Is 452X still the "go-to" for the most forgiving to start out with? 

Some are suggesting to order "low wax" when getting BCY string material. Can you only specify low wax when ordering straight from BCY? I haven't been able to find that option from any sort of retailer.


----------



## automan26

452x is still a rock solid, go-to material. You won't go wrong there. Halo has also proven itself to be very reliable. Lancaster is a great place to order materials. I've never ordered low wax string material, but the standard version with wax has proven itself to be a good choice. Waxed or low wax is a personal choice and both options have advantages.

You mentioned wanting to build your own jig. That's great. Have you seen my videos on jig building?

Here's #1 of 6.


----------



## nthn3875

I've gone through all of the videos that you have posted! They help a ton and I'm very excited to get the whole thing put together. Thank you so much for putting all the time and effort towards making this a very accessible side to archery!


----------



## PowerLineman83

If anybody is interested, I posted a BAP 4 post in the classifieds.










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## Fast Ed

Anyone have the serving specs on an Elite Answer? I have the string and cables length.


----------



## PowerLineman83

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bfittock

Tag ends or served what do you prefer on your string builds


----------



## automan26

I've always been a big fan of tags. If done properly they hold up very well. I've never had a tag end loop fail. Lately, served loops seem to have become a necessity, but I truly believe that tags serve their function admirably. Using tags to build loops cuts down on build time.

Automan


----------



## automan26

With a little practice, tag serving makes a nice, tight end loop.

Automan


----------



## rapids

Like automan, I prefer the tag end method. A couple of advantages are you don’t need a 4 post jig and loop serving thread, and the overall thread building time is less.


----------



## bfittock

Thanks for your feedback i normally do served ends on my builds all tho I do find some cam systems tag ends seem fit a little better cheers regards Brett


----------



## Racinray

What are the actual differences between tag ends and served ends? Pics? How to videos


----------



## Huntinsker

Racinray said:


> What are the actual differences between tag ends and served ends? Pics? How to videos


Have you looked at the thread you're responding to?


----------



## Racinray

Yep looked,was wondering how to serve them both ,watched how tag ends are done . Haven’t found any info on doing served looped ends. Kinda new to this.


----------



## Huntinsker

Racinray said:


> Yep looked,was wondering how to serve them both ,watched how tag ends are done . Haven’t found any info on doing served looped ends. Kinda new to this.


----------



## Gene1

Tag ends on the loops. 2nd and 3rd pic served with white halo with clarifier added.


----------



## Gene1

Sorry if this is off subject but it’s kinda of related.

What do you guys do about speed nocks? I’ve done a search here and the information is from 2015. There are the brass nocks and rubber ones.

the Hoyt tune charts show location of speed nocks but did not show the weight.

the bow I’m referring to is a Hoyt Invicta 40 DCX #2.

I don’t have a Chrono and don’t want to go down that rabbit hole.

im just shooting paper indoors, but will a few FPS really help me? Don’t get me wrong, I do want to get max performance out of the bow.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> Sorry if this is off subject but it’s kinda of related.
> 
> What do you guys do about speed nocks? I’ve done a search here and the information is from 2015. There are the brass nocks and rubber ones.
> 
> the Hoyt tune charts show location of speed nocks but did not show the weight.
> 
> the bow I’m referring to is a Hoyt Invicta 40 DCX #2.
> 
> I don’t have a Chrono and don’t want to go down that rabbit hole.
> 
> im just shooting paper indoors, but will a few FPS really help me? Don’t get me wrong, I do want to get max performance out of the bow.


Pretty sure Hoyt's brass "speed chamber" thing weighs around 19gr, or at least it did a couple years ago. Looks like on that bow they just use one of those so 4 of the Saunders black brass nocks will get you close. The Pine Ridge Nitro Button XL weighs 19gr so that'd be about perfect and their new Speed Bombs are 23gr. 

The biggest problem with the rubber type of speed nocks is installing them over the loops and getting them to stay in place. If you can manage that though, they're not a bad option and are cheaper than buying a bunch of brass. In the past I've figured out the position I want them to be and then tied a constrictor knot of serving on top of the end serving to create a "bump" for the rubber nock to slide over and it holds it in place pretty well. A dab of super glue on that will help too. String wax on the loop and cotter pin will help them slide onto the string relatively easily as well.


----------



## Gene1

Thanks!


----------



## Hoyt slayer

I've just recently started using a four post setup to try served loops. I've used .008 spectra so far and I'm not impressed with its durability. Has anyone found something they like better?


----------



## The Infidel

Hoyt slayer said:


> I've just recently started using a four post setup to try served loops. I've used .008 spectra so far and I'm not impressed with its durability. Has anyone found something they like better?


I've been using .007 BCY Halo and Bloodline BOA .008 servings. They've held up very well so far.

I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


----------



## Fly2High

I am only on page 12 (only 400 pages to go) but I figured there was some issue with understanding which way to serve and this seems to work for me and seems to be always right.

I use my hands!! All joking aside, I really do.

*1. I choose which way I will twist my string, clockwise or counterclockwise.

2. If I choose to twist my string clockwise, I will use my right hand to tell me which way to serve. If I turn counterclockwise, I will use my left hand. 

3. Now, I lay my thumb along the string and point my thumb in the direction I will be building the serving, away from me or towards me (left or right depending on how the string is in front of you).

4. I will then curl my fingers around the string and that is the direction the serving tool will wrap - from palm to finger tips. The finger tips point the way to turn the tool around the string!*


To tell the truth, this comes from figuring out handedness in chemistry and the way current, magnetism and induction or something works as well. I will admit I have forgotten my physics but it works with string building too. I will bet that it also works in biology.

OK, I bet someone in the next 400 pages also figured this out but just in case, I will post it.

Frank


----------



## SamT

Try this link to automan26 YouTube channel. He has a couple of videos about serving direction.



https://youtube.com/channel/UCrQWc7kHlr92yUbr2kZtZ-g



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## alara325

Forgive me if not allowed but I have a Super Server 800 for sale in classifieds if y’all know anybody looking for one. 


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----------



## Hoyt slayer

The Infidel said:


> I've been using .007 BCY Halo and Bloodline BOA .008 servings. They've held up very well so far.
> 
> I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


Thought about trying some 20lb braid, the diameter is like .007.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

This may help with twisting and serving 






Automan


----------



## Fly2High

automan26 said:


> This may help with twisting and serving
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Automan


Yes, the clock face works as long as you serve towards the clock. It is opposite the clock if you serve away from the clock. That is how I came up with the thumb and finger or my right hand method for clockwise string twisting. My thumb points along the string from the starting point towards the direction I want to build. The other 4 fingers always point the way to turn regardless how you stand or direction you want to serve. The best thing is, I can never lose or misplace my hands . Also works if you need to replace the center serving in the field and the clock face is at home. Also, if I want to twist counterclockwise, I just use my left hand and it works too.

As long as the person can figure it out, all is good. nice video and thank you for all you have contributed here.


----------



## Fly2High

Is it possible to use a piece of 1 x 1 square tube stock instead of the 1/2" piece of plate steel in the jig?









Everbilt 1 in. x 72 in. x 0.0625 in. Square Tube 801127 - The Home Depot


A square shaped hollow rod, a square tube is the alternative to the round tube. Square tubes are typically used for framework, gym equipment and awnings. Available in various sizes and materials. Square



www.homedepot.com


----------



## Huntinsker

Fly2High said:


> Is it possible to use a piece of 1 x 1 square tube stock instead of the 1/2" piece of plate steel in the jig?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everbilt 1 in. x 72 in. x 0.0625 in. Square Tube 801127 - The Home Depot
> 
> 
> A square shaped hollow rod, a square tube is the alternative to the round tube. Square tubes are typically used for framework, gym equipment and awnings. Available in various sizes and materials. Square
> 
> 
> 
> www.homedepot.com


It's possible to use all kinds of different materials. As long as you get the stiffness that is required for the tensions that you'll be putting strings under, you can use it. Just be sure it's "over built" so you don't have any dangerous failures.


----------



## 138104

How many of you builders are using a serving machine, like Super Server? While the NW Spinner is awesome, running the drill on longer servings kills my wrist.


----------



## Racinray

Looking for some Powergrip .14 To check my enter serving diameter. I stretched and served at 300lbs with my beiter set at 12 lbs tension .I tried my .18 but was way to tight on my nock . Have 14 strands of reg purple and 14 strands of black using X99 . I need to be around .110 to .113. Hate to buy another roll of serving l can’t use. I’ll pay for a 10 foot length or so shipped in an envelope or a used black someon has no use for. Thanks


----------



## 138104

Racinray said:


> Looking for some Powergrip .14 To check my enter serving diameter. I stretched and served at 300lbs with my beiter set at 12 lbs tension .I tried my .18 but was way to tight on my nock . Have 14 strands of reg purple and 14 strands of black using X99 . I need to be around .110 to .113. Hate to buy another roll of serving l can’t use. I’ll pay for a 10 foot length or so shipped in an envelope or a used black someon has no use for. Thanks


I don’t have any PG, but do I have .018 62xs that might work. It finishes smaller than PG.


----------



## Racinray

Thanks Perry, tried the .018 62xs it came in at .118 too tight. I’m running Gold Tip 246 nocks. Thanks for the offer.


----------



## Huntinsker

Racinray said:


> Looking for some Powergrip .14 To check my enter serving diameter. I stretched and served at 300lbs with my beiter set at 12 lbs tension .I tried my .18 but was way to tight on my nock . Have 14 strands of reg purple and 14 strands of black using X99 . I need to be around .110 to .113. Hate to buy another roll of serving l can’t use. I’ll pay for a 10 foot length or so shipped in an envelope or a used black someon has no use for. Thanks


I have .014 PG on most of my bows and have it over 28 strands of Fury. It ranges anywhere from .104 to .107 depending on colors under it. Brownell's material of that era typically finished a little smaller than BCY's because of the "fineness" of the wax and dye compared to BCY's so I'd bet that over your 28 of X99, .014 PG will hit your number perfectly. It'll likely be your closest option anyway.


----------



## Racinray

Thanks ,Been messing around with my new to me el cheapo string jig I have some bows that are need of some serving help.


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## Fly2High

I am new to string building and was thinking of how I could use those test pieces.

1. Make a piece long enough to use to tension a 4 post from the 2 post puller. I think this was shown in the post #5009. 

2. Create loops on both ends of a short test piece and I wonder if you can use it to serve loop ends together. I was thinking of passing the short section so that the test piece would pass through the tagged or served end and be use to attach to the 1/4" post. Both ends of the test piece would be on the same post and the loop formed would hold the new string end. Sort of like a middleman between the post and the string being made. Since the string is far narrower than the 1/4" post, it might be easier to bring the two sides of the loop together. Just a thought. might be good use for a 6-10" piece.

3. Us those really short pieces as a connector to a carabineer to attach your keys.

4. Use test pieces to attach things to your case or quiver to have them handy or put different colors on thing you use frequently so as to find them fast in a pocket or drawer.


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## automan26

If I'm trying a new material or a new procedure for the first time I try to build my practice piece to 15.75". That's the length of the short buss cable on my PSE. If it turns out right I've made good use of a practice string. If not, I'll tweak it until it's right. Now I have a usable buss cable coupled with some valuable building info.

Automan


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## Fly2High

automan26, Huntinsker and several of the others who have really made this thread so valuable and full of great information.

I would like to send out a big thank you!!! It took me 2 weeks of reading every spare minute but I have finally finished every post.

What a wealth of information and a wonderful comradery you have developed. I hope to join your ranks both as a newbie learning and maybe one day as a provider of help and information. I have recorded several links just from this thread and from all the videos you all have made. It really boosts one's confidence that the time and investment will be successful.



*I have decided that I would like to build my El Cheapo out of pipe* similar to this one Post #5486 - 5487.
https://www.archerytalk.com/threads...making-guide.2062893/page-275#post-1106229531
From what I gather, the 'T' is a 3/4" T and uses 3/4" thread by 1/2" sweat adapters. The ID of the 1/2" sweat is actually 5/8" since copper pipe is measure ID and is 1/2" so they need some material for the walls which are 1/16" thick. This is why the sweat fitting, I found out, is really 5/8" since the sweat fitting goes outside the pipe.

*My local Home Depot has galvanized and black pipe. Can I use either for the T or the vertical pipe?

Both Lowes and Home Depot sell 3/4" pipe nipples (threaded at both ends) in lengths of 5", 6" 7" and 8". What would be a good length*? I know I can buy a longer pipe and cut it in half but I do not have a chop box to get a square end. Easier to spend a few dollars for the right length.

*Any idea as to what length 5/8" bolt to run through the entire assembly? What grade?*
Do you think a Dremel cutoff wheel and grinder bits will allow me to cut the threads out? I like the idea of the locking screw on the top.

Huntinsker, as I was reading, I had the same thought as you to use the threaded coupler. I was thinking how can I weld it to the screw to make it permanent and I love your idea of the JB weld. I look forward to doing that on mine as well so as to allow for a central twisting point ( The Comprehensive DIY Compound Bow String/Cable Making Guide ). I just love your solution!! As I came upon your post, it screamed Eureka!!! awesome idea. Not sure if it can be used with pipe parts or not. Will need to see. I think this uses a long bolt that has no threads cut except for the end which might limit which way it can be inserted. Not sure if the thread hampers the pipe fitting build or not.

*Any suggestions how to prevent the T from rotating?* I have a fear that when I drill the vertical pipe, I will somehow be off center or twisted and will not be able to get the top to line up. I fear having the vertical pipe attach to the L brackets so that the top T is not pointing down the rail. Any ideas? OK, a big pipe wrench and some muscle but besides that!!I might be able to run a small bolt or pin through the T and the pipe to lock everything in place but that too might require some skills..

*Anything go inside the T fitting? *I see the washers, springs and bearing are all on the outside so I believe nothing but air.

*Do the 3/4" x 1/2" threaded adapters need to be cut down at all? * I am thinking the sweat side. If yes, how much? Not sure if the cut most of the sweat fitting side off or not.

Again, thank you all who have offered help and posted ideas.

With deep appreciation,
Frank


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## Fly2High

Also, I would love to get a string material that can be used for both recurve and compound. Suggestions?
I was thinking Mercury but I was several on here buy some and then saw they put it up for sale and wonder why?

I know that 8125 either creeps too much or heat issues makes it a poor string for compounds otherwise I might buy that. I am not sure if Mercury is better for both. I have a feeling I may need some older material for the Hoyt and some 8125 for the recurve (will show it below)


Anyone have the measurements for a 1997 Hoyt Enticer Carbonite with MasterCams? 56" and 32.25" come to mind.
Any idea on the serving mapping? I should probably post this in the other thread.

I also have a Gillo G1 (27" riser, long limbs (69" string) that I just got so I am not sure the final string length. I purchased strings that I am not super happy with and would like to buy material for both of them - possibly the same material. Being an older bow, it might not be able to take the stiffer and newer material. I do not know.


Finally, in Brownell or BCY, I was wondering what colors would match the Gillo G1 in Blue and the gold found on the bow It also has white with some black limbs.








Even the wood grip is rather orange:









I think the picture doesn't look as orange as it really is. This grip picture is very close to spot on.

I got a 8125 string in blue and flo yellow and it doesn't go with the orange-gold pieces. The string looks great but not for this bow. The second string I got is the blue with white spec. which looks really good. When I waxed it, the white now looks dirty. Making my own would afford me a clean set always but I am open to alternative suggestions. Also, the white speckled is not available in Mercury. Only solid colors.

Any idea if the Gold string material would be a closer match or would something else be?

I have no idea about Brownell colors so I would welcome those suggestions as well.

I have a feeling I will buy some black and replace the compound string and then buy some colors for the recurve. Not sure. At the same time, I would like to get experience in one material if possible.


Thanks for the suggestions
Frank


----------



## Fly2High

I know, I have a lot of questions but I have just finished 413 pages!!

I was wondering if anyone made their Unistrut - takedown?

I was planning on using 2 struts, one above the other. I was thinking of cutting them 6' and 4' each. One would have the 6ft on top and the other on the bottom so that I can use something to bolt the two together at the 2ft overlap to make a one piece?

If 2ft of overlap just seems logical but I have no engineering experience to support these dimensions. Being 6ft tall will fit almost anywhere. Also, I might be able to make some string on just one piece. Sure, I would have a 2ft section unsupported but I would be able to make at least a 4ft string without needing to join them. If I buy a two foot piece, I might be able to go 6 ft and make a mini setup.

I fear I will have no place to store 10ft worth of steel.

Thoughts?

Thanks
Frank


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## Fly2High

Just a final suggestion. 

Maybe make a Part 2 of this thread and let the first one end. This way, you can reorganize the info now that so many have made various improvements and suggestions. You could always make a set of links to good posts in the first.

Again, just an idea.


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## automan26

You've asked a lot of questions, so I'll try to answer the ones I can. I don't know much about building the tubular jig, but I honestly think it would be easier and cheaper to build the El-Cheap-O. I think the tubular one has a lot more parts to fiddle with and with more parts comes more cost and build time.

I think a 6 foot section of Unistrut might be a bit short depending on what you are trying to do. I cut one of mine down to 7 feet and it just barely works for my 61" string. Some of the shorter bows use shorter strings and 6 feet give you 72 inches, but you need to account for the room it takes to mount the jig. A 55 inch string, along with the jig heads will take up about 65 inches, leaving only 6 inches past the jig heads on each end.. That's actually cutting it a bit close, but it would work. During the winter months I store my 7 foot section along the base of a bedroom wall and I don't even notice it's there. I have a spare 10 foot section of strut, but I rarely use it. Seven feet has been sufficient of 99% of what I build.

452x would be a good material for your bow. It's stood the test of time and is very easy to work with. Personal choice...I think electric blue and silver would look very nice on your bow. Blue and gold would be another great color combo.

I know I have left some of your questions unanswered. I may sound like I have a bias, but I would still urge you to build the El-Cheap-O. It's proven itself and would be much easier to build.

Automan


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## Fly2High

thanks for the material suggestion for the Enticer and the colors for the Gillo. I will have to check Blue and silver out! sounds cool. thank you.

As for the jig rail, I have a feeling what I am looking to do is being lost in my explanation and I have a little bit of an improvment to it as well that might hold water better.

I have read where some are taking two Superstruts and bolting them together for more rigidity. Here is a super quick (and lousy) diagram showing that I would like my rail to be comprised of 4 pieces of Superstrut, 2 x 6ft and 2 x4ft cut from 2 x 10 ft pieces. This would be more so for takedown and storage but I feel that I can also make any short string or cable with just one section. I understand your comment that I need extra width to support the entire post and that will narrow down what the usable length will be. I would not have any space between the two section and have them butt against each other. The red lines are the bolts (much longer than in reality) bolting the backsides together. The two ft overlap would have at least 3 or 4 bolts joining the overlap. I have shown three here just for diagrammatic purposes.












This would allow me to dismantle the 10 ft rail for easy closet or corner storage.

I was also thinking of using a separate 2ft Superstrut to make 1/2 of my rail setup be useful at a full 6ft in length. I have seen that they make a short flat piece, similar to the L brackets, that has holes in it to join two Superstruts together. I could put a 2ft piece and that strap across the bottom for further reinforce the joint and make a 6 ft doubled rail. The top would be in compression during string stretching so there is no need to add it there. Just need to make sure the two are tight against each other. At least that is the thought.












What do you think?

For me, the only time I would need a full length 10 ft rail is when I am making my 68.5" recurve string. The Enticer only needs a 56" string and 34.5" cable and if the rail is 72" of usable space, I think your design for the posts would still fit.

The benefit would be easier storage and would only cost me the price of the flat strap and 2ft section to get a 6ft rail instead of having to buy 2 more 10ft sections to cut down should i desire a shorter rail.

Thoughts??

Frank


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## 138104

Fly2high, I would take a look at X99 for a do it all material. It would work for most recurves, compounds, and even crossbows. I’ve built with Mercury and never had issues. Some say it will elongate in extreme heat, but I never had issues in PA.


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## Fly2High

Does 8125 elongate with heat? That seems to be the Olympic recurve string of choice. I wonder if it matters with a recurve. I am new to recurve but I have heard that it is advisable to check the brace height and tiller each time. I wonder if you need to add twists if the nocking point moves too?

Doesn't X99 have Vectran? I think for most recurves that is a no no. Might still be curious for the Hoyt.


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## 138104

Fly2High said:


> Does 8125 elongate with heat? That seems to be the Olympic recurve string of choice. I wonder if it matters with a recurve. I am new to recurve but I have heard that it is advisable to check the brace height and tiller each time. I wonder if you need to add twists if the nocking point moves too?
> 
> Doesn't X99 have Vectran? I think for most recurves that is a no no. Might still be curious for the Hoyt.


I would call BCY for advice on recurves. I’ve read that guys are using X99, but not sure on what style recurve.

Mercury is the updated version of 8125 and uses SK99 Dyneema over SK75. Both should be stable if built correctly. I just prefer a blended material.


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## 138104

Perry24 said:


> I would call BCY for advice on recurves. I’ve read that guys are using X99, but not sure on what style recurve.
> 
> Mercury is the updated version of 8125 and uses SK99 Dyneema over SK75. Both should be stable if built correctly. I just prefer a blended material.


I was incorrect. 8125 was the updated version of D97. Sorry about that!


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## FlyingWatchmake

Please don’t use anything from BCY with an X in the material code for recurves… it denotes use of Vectran, which is specifically added to remove/reduce creep and stretch.. a recurve requires a certain amount of shock absorption from the string which this removes… 

A number of limb manufacturers will not honor warranty claims if non-stretch material is used.. it’s really not that expensive to have a small spool of 8125 or similar, and you get more strings for a recurve out of a small spool than you will for a compound..

Also note that the more strands in a recurve string, the less shock absorption there is also (less weight carried by each strand)

T


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## ssoutdoors

Hey there. any Canadians looking to build the elk cheapo jig. 

I ordered the spring from grainger and they require a min order of two. So I have an extra 

FS: Spring for El-Cheapo-String jig
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...or Sale - FS: Spring for El-Cheapo-String jig

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SpyderSlayer

Hi folks,
I just want to express my deep appreciation for Huntinsker and Automan26 and this one most successful thread on ArcheryTalk. I didn't build my own string jig, but this thread inspired me to buy two different jigs through ArcheryTalk. From searching hundreds of posts on this thread, I learned to build all types of strings, cables & components, and apply various building methods on my own wide ranging-large collection of bows. From the inventive creative energy inspired by this thread, I have invented tools and components, a couple of which have been accepted by a notable archery machinery manufacturer. This one thread has more posts than any other I've ever come across, and continues to receive new input to this day.

From this line of posts, I know exactly how a fine set of threads should look and perform.

I've built so many strings/cables using tips from this thread, that when I come across a new material or different tweak of string/cable, or a new type of string component, I immediately know what to test for and how to approach the application. This one thread has been a source of detailed instructions for how to expand my enjoyment of archery, and lucky for me, I discovered it within a year or two of taking up the sport...and I know I've expressed my appreciation at least once before.
I have to write it again, Thanks.


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## automan26

Starting wirh post #1, the purpose of this thread has been to introduce guys to an aspect of this great sport that many thought was totally out of reach. Without naming names (although I don't think he would mind) one of the most highly respected professional builders in the country got started right here on this thread. He learned by building one of these jigs and reading and asking questions and is now cranking out over 2000 sets of strings per year. Others are building and selling strings on a smaller scale and they too are producing top-drawer merchandise. 

Huntinsker and I are thrilled when we hear of guys like yourself who have found something that enhances their participation in this, the best sport in the world.

ThanX for your post and KEEP ON BUILDING.

Automan


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## Turborider

Does anybody ever deviate from the manufacturer specs. I am building a set of canles and string for a bear traxx. I mad the cables to the exact lengths listed on the bows limbs and confirmed the lengths with bear. But after putting the strings on I had to put over a dozen twists in both cables to get the bows ata to the right length. 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## automan26

I know your story all too well. I bought a Bear Revival that was the bow from hell. I wanted something that could be shot at 45# and this bow was listed at 45-60. I also built a set of strings according to the specs on the limb and my draw weight was way over spec. No matter how I tweaked the cable lengths I could not get it to draw below 68#. To make a very very very long story short I finally got the bow down to the draw weight to the lower limit at which it was advertised, but I went thru 3 new bows, a set of limbs and seven sets of strings to get there. If you had to put that many twists in the string, Bear screwed up and they are known for putting out bows that are not in spec with the original string lengths. Now that you have the cables twisted up to where they need to be, remove them from the bow, measure them, then build a set to the lengths that you have found to work.

Automan


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## Turborider

automan26 said:


> I know your story all too well. I bought a Bear Revival that was the bow from hell. I wanted something that could be shot at 45# and this bow was listed at 45-60. I also built a set of strings according to the specs on the limb and my draw weight was way over spec. No matter how I tweaked the cable lengths I could not get it to draw below 68#. To make a very very very long story short I finally got the bow down to the draw weight to the lower limit at which it was advertised, but I went thru 3 new bows, a set of limbs and seven sets of strings to get there. If you had to put that many twists in the string, Bear screwed up and they are known for putting out bows that are not in spec with the original string lengths. Now that you have the cables twisted up to where they need to be, remove them from the bow, measure them, then build a set to the lengths that you have found to work.
> 
> Automan


So the mystery goes deeper. I played around with the ables I made for a couple of hours. When I twisted them enough to make the ata right the maxed out the limbs the draw weight was hitting almost 80lbs. Which is too heavy as it is only a 70lb Max on the bow. So I set the cables back to the lengths I made them and what is marked on the limbs. After doing this and getting cam lean and timing all good. The bow draws almost exact 70lbs with the limbs maxed out. But the ata is 3/8" long and the brace height is about 1/2" short. 
Any ideas or should I just ignore the the ata and brace height specs and roll with it as drawing the correct weight. 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## automan26

I'm sure there are others more qualified than I on your dilemma, but once I got the DW to spec. on my Revival I came to the conclusion that whatever I tried to do to bring one thing back into spec was going to throw something else off. I had enough adjustment on the cams to get my DL to where I wanted. Once I got my DL and DW to where I wanted it I took the bow out and it shot very well, so knowing that ATA is not super critical and BH was short, but shootable I decided that I could live with it. Then I found my Supra Focus, dumped the bow from hell and never looked back. I put the factory strings back on which essentially made the bow a 60-70# bow that met all the factory tune specs and sold it as such. Oddly enough, the very next year Bear listed the identical Revival as a 60-70# bow because they finally figured out what I had disvovered... There's no way on God's green earth that that bow will ever make 45#.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Turborider said:


> So the mystery goes deeper. I played around with the ables I made for a couple of hours. When I twisted them enough to make the ata right the maxed out the limbs the draw weight was hitting almost 80lbs. Which is too heavy as it is only a 70lb Max on the bow. So I set the cables back to the lengths I made them and what is marked on the limbs. After doing this and getting cam lean and timing all good. The bow draws almost exact 70lbs with the limbs maxed out. But the ata is 3/8" long and the brace height is about 1/2" short.
> Any ideas or should I just ignore the the ata and brace height specs and roll with it as drawing the correct weight.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


String is too long. The string being too long will increase the draw weight even if the cables are long too. Bear has occasionally had bows go out with incorrect string/cable specs written on the limb but they usually are pretty good about it. What are the lengths you're building to? Do you have the old set still? If you do, you should put them back on and measure the specs. If the bow specs are correct, measure the old string and cable and see what lengths they are. 

I personally have custom specs on all my bows based on how I want the bows to feel and spec out. IMO, factory specs are just starting points.


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## automan26

^^^^ That's a much better answer than mine.

Automan


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## Turborider

Huntinsker said:


> String is too long. The string being too long will increase the draw weight even if the cables are long too. Bear has occasionally had bows go out with incorrect string/cable specs written on the limb but they usually are pretty good about it. What are the lengths you're building to? Do you have the old set still? If you do, you should put them back on and measure the specs. If the bow specs are correct, measure the old string and cable and see what lengths they are.
> 
> I personally have custom specs on all my bows based on how I want the bows to feel and spec out. IMO, factory specs are just starting points.


I will have to give that a try. I did measure the cables that I pulled off in comparison and they were the same length as what I built. I also verified with bear via email that the string and cable lengths on the bow limb were indeed correct.
But I never measured the ATA on the bow when those cables and string were on it.

Out of curiosity, how would the string being too long increase the weight? I am still pretty new to working on bows. So I may be missing something obvious here.


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## Huntinsker

Turborider said:


> I will have to give that a try. I did measure the cables that I pulled off in comparison and they were the same length as what I built. I also verified with bear via email that the string and cable lengths on the bow limb were indeed correct.
> But I never measured the ATA on the bow when those cables and string were on it.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how would the string being too long increase the weight? I am still pretty new to working on bows. So I may be missing something obvious here.


Draw weight is a function of limb load at brace compared to at full draw. Lengthening the cables while keeping the string the same length will essentially take load off the limbs at brace and also act to "short string" the bow by changing the starting rotation of the cams and decreasing the rotation of the cams through the draw cycle. If the cables are the correct length and the string is too long, the starting rotation will "move forwards" meaning the cams will be rotated more forwards at brace so the string is wrapped further around the cams and the increased wrap will increase the rotation and load on the limbs at full draw.


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## Turborider

Huntinsker said:


> Draw weight is a function of limb load at brace compared to at full draw. Lengthening the cables while keeping the string the same length will essentially take load off the limbs at brace and also act to "short string" the bow by changing the starting rotation of the cams and decreasing the rotation of the cams through the draw cycle. If the cables are the correct length and the string is too long, the starting rotation will "move forwards" meaning the cams will be rotated more forwards at brace so the string is wrapped further around the cams and the increased wrap will increase the rotation and load on the limbs at full draw.


could having the string too long with the cables at the right length also affect the ata and brace height?


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## Huntinsker

Turborider said:


> could having the string too long with the cables at the right length also affect the ata and brace height?


Not by a whole lot but brace height and ATA are "guidelines" and each bow will be a little different.


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## Turborider

Does anybody ever mix materials? Like using 452x for a qty of strands and mercury for the rest to try and mixed benefits of both. Just something that popped into my head the other day and was wondering if anybody ever tried it and if there would be any concerns that anybody can think of.


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## automan26

Mixing materials doesn't work. Years ago, someone asked me to give it a try. I didn't think it would work, but he insisted and promised to pay for the string if it didn't work, then pay for the replacement if needed. The peep on the mixed string spun like a top.

Automan


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## 138104

Turborider said:


> Does anybody ever mix materials? Like using 452x for a qty of strands and mercury for the rest to try and mixed benefits of both. Just something that popped into my head the other day and was wondering if anybody ever tried it and if there would be any concerns that anybody can think of.


You can use one material for the string and a different material for the cables without issue. You just shouldn’t combine them in the same bundle. A good combo would be 452x for the cables and Mercury for the string. You’d likely pickup some speed too.


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## Arrowantenna

Very comprehensive! Thank you


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## The Infidel

Does anyone know where to get the speed nocks that come machined as single pieces? For example instead of using 5 individual nocks they are a single long brass strip. I've seen them on here and I'm just trying to find the source. Thanks guys.

I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


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## deerbum

The Infidel said:


> Does anyone know where to get the speed nocks that come machined as single pieces? For example instead of using 5 individual nocks they are a single long brass strip. I've seen them on here and I'm just trying to find the source. Thanks guys.
> 
> I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


There's someone selling them as "speed stacks" in the archery tools section, last updated 9 days ago.


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## CKCECB

GAS bowstrings will sell you their speed chambers. They didn't list them online when I ordered them so I called and they set me up. They are tough to crimp, though.


----------



## EGriggs

We (GAS) have the speed stacks machined and we resell those. We sell 2,3,4 & 5 stacks in bag qty's of 10, 100, 500 & 1,000.

Give us a call at 606-612-5156 to order or you can email [email protected]




The Infidel said:


> Does anyone know where to get the speed nocks that come machined as single pieces? For example instead of using 5 individual nocks they are a single long brass strip. I've seen them on here and I'm just trying to find the source. Thanks guys.
> 
> I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


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## Racinray

Looking to serve a backup string with Powergrip. I have watched Nestly’s video with him serving at 10 lb tension. Is this a common amount of tension ? Too much? I will serve at 300 lb string tension. Haven’t heard from Nestly hope all is well.


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## Fly2High

I believe what he is referring to is the tension on the serving jig is set to have a 10lb load when the string is pulled out.


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## Racinray

I also use my scale to check the poundage of the serving tension when I serve ,I should of mentioned that.


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## Huntinsker

Racinray said:


> Looking to serve a backup string with Powergrip. I have watched Nestly’s video with him serving at 10 lb tension. Is this a common amount of tension ? Too much? I will serve at 300 lb string tension. Haven’t heard from Nestly hope all is well.


You'll find out if it's too tight when you start serving. If the string is rotating more than about 1/4 turn when laying the serving down, it's probably too tight or you need to clamp your string. If you're spinning the string, you'll find out if the peep rotates a lot.


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## The Infidel

I tension my string to 400 lbs, install string clamps and serve at around 10 lbs of jig tension. I'll measure the jig tension with a bow scale. I dont do my center servings with my serving machine.

I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


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## Gene1

I ordered 3 more 1/8lb spools to add to my color section of BCY X99

I was very surprised that the fluorescent green is about 3/8” smaller in diameter on the spool. Yes it’s measure by weight 1/8lb is 2oz.
I guess spool is about .85 oz.


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## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> I ordered 3 more 1/8lb spools to add to my color section of BCY X99
> 
> I was very surprised that the fluorescent green is about 3/8” smaller in diameter on the spool. Yes it’s measure by weight 1/8lb is 2oz.
> I guess spool is about .85 oz.
> View attachment 7494231
> View attachment 7494232
> View attachment 7494233


I've always thought it should be measured by linear feet as opposed to weight. White or natural weights less so you get more per spool where any color is going to give you less as the wax/dye weighs more. It's interesting that the green is that much smaller though. I wonder if it's just not wound at a higher tension coming off that particular machine?


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## Gene1

Huntinsker said:


> I've always thought it should be measured by linear feet as opposed to weight. White or natural weights less so you get more per spool where any color is going to give you less as the wax/dye weighs more. It's interesting that the green is that much smaller though. I wonder if it's just not wound at a higher tension coming off that particular machine?


Yeah, I agree with you that spools of thread should be base on linear feet.
I just did a squeeze test and the green spool is wound tight. Can’t depress it like the other 2.


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## 138104

Gene1 said:


> Yeah, I agree with you that spools of thread should be base on linear feet.
> I just did a squeeze test and the green spool is wound tight. Can’t depress it like the other 2.


Be glad it is wound tight. I have a spool of sunset orange that spins on the spool when doing layout. It’s a PIA.


----------



## wsbark01

Anyone have an Amazon or eBay link for the best fishing line/serving now? It’s been so long since I bought some what I used isn’t on eBay anymore. Thanks!


----------



## bfittock

Fast Ed said:


> Anyone have the serving specs on an Elite Answer? I have the string and cables length.


----------



## bfittock

is Brownell shipping string material yet I'm looking for some rampage next gen of fury and some 0.14 bullwhip


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## Frenchlepricon

Oh wow that diagram is brilliant. Any idea where I could find this for my 2015 PSE Supra Max?


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## Huntinsker

Frenchlepricon said:


> Oh wow that diagram is brilliant. Any idea where I could find this for my 2015 PSE Supra Max?


In the strings and arrows forum there are two sticky threads at the top that you can search for specs. There are tons of shared specs and diagrams in there.


----------



## Frenchlepricon

Thx for this I tried but the search function on the forum is not the best. I got over 25 pages of results as it seems to search on any words I put... But will keep searching


----------



## Huntinsker

Frenchlepricon said:


> Thx for this I tried but the search function on the forum is not the best. I got over 25 pages of results as it seems to search on any words I put... But will keep searching


Here you go.

Attn: String Makers 

Attn: String Makers Part 2 

When you use the search, on a computer anyway, there are options that pop up when you start typing. They are to search across the whole site, the particular forum or the discussion or thread that you're in. Make sure you select the discussion so you don't search the whole site.


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## Frenchlepricon

Huntinsker said:


> When you use the search, on a computer anyway, there are options that pop up when you start typing. They are to search across the whole site, the particular forum or the discussion or thread that you're in. Make sure you select the discussion so you don't search the whole site.


Yeah saw that thanks... lol in my first search I mainly got posts with supra max for sale.. so selected only arrows & strings to narrow it down... need to spend more time... it's bound to be at least one post there cos that bow was popular...;-)

oh and btw thank you so much for sharing the details of your string jig in this post - much insightful 
have an old one I used to make my string with but too flexible so thinking of making ur version.


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## 138104

First time building this combo and really like it! It’s mountain berry and gunmetal with mountain berry serving.


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## automan26

Those look sweet. Very nice work.

Automan


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## Gene1

Looks very nice.
What speed nocks are you using?


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## 138104

Gene1 said:


> Looks very nice.
> What speed nocks are you using?


GAS speed stacks. They are a pain to crimp on.


----------



## Gene1

Thanks


----------



## CKCECB

I'm going to try using my hobby vise to crimp the speed stacks next time I do a build (mine has a v-groove for round stock).


----------



## 138104

CKCECB said:


> I'm going to try using my hobby vise to crimp the speed stacks next time I do a build (mine has a v-groove for round stock).


Can you post a picture of this vise?


----------



## CKCECB

It's just a cheap harbor freight suction cup vise, but I pulled off the cup and have it screwed to a board that I clamp to my bench. It has removable rubber jaw pads. Not a high leverage vise bit it may be just enough.

Harbor freight vise

Axo that lists Halo in the classifieds posted a pic of a pneumatic Harbor Freight crimper/air punch. I thought about picking one of those up but I want to try the vise first.


----------



## CKCECB

My first build with speed stacks I used my Easton pliers and it hurt bad. I even switched over to those cheap electrical crimp terminal pliers to get more leverage, but those tended to flatten/oval the stacks.

I can't find my box of string material currently (going through a late fall basement purge and it's ugly) but when I do I will test out the vise and report back.


----------



## automan26

I'm looking for a particular BCY color, but unfortunately BCY's color chart is not as accurate as I would like. Can some post a pic of BCY Cedar, Tan, or Buckskin? The color I'm looking for is a BCY color but it doesn't match well with anything on their chart.

Automan


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## 138104

automan26 said:


> I'm looking for a particular BCY color, but unfortunately BCY's color chart is not as accurate as I would like. Can some post a pic of BCY Cedar, Tan, or Buckskin? The color I'm looking for is a BCY color but it doesn't match well with anything on their chart.
> 
> Automan


Here you go.

Cedar, tan, buckskin


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## automan26

ThanX.... Cedar is what I'm looking for. I saw a bow with cedar and flo orange and I just have to build a set for myself. I just built a set of flo orange and tan, but tan wasn't what I wanted. Oh well, the orange and tan threads have been on the bow for an entire week. It's about time to swap them out for a better color combo. LOL

AUTOMAN


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## wisdoll22

bfittock said:


> is Brownell shipping string material yet I'm looking for some rampage next gen of fury and some 0.14 bullwhip


they only have a very limited supply. of course they don't have anything I need yet. Best bet is to call them to see what they have in stock.


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## nthn3875

To those running full Flo threads. How well does the color hold up? Are they staying vibrant or do they pick up grime and become muted quickly?


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## 138104

nthn3875 said:


> To those running full Flo threads. How well does the color hold up? Are they staying vibrant or do they pick up grime and become muted quickly?


Mine stay bright. I wax and burnish them when they get a bit dirty and that makes them look new again.


----------



## The Infidel

Question for all the flemish gurus out there.

I have been making endless loop strings for a few years but I want to try my hand at flemish. I normally stretch my strings to 400 lbs but I wasnt sure if that's detrimental to a flemish string. What do you guys normally stretch to?

I've got several spools of Brownell Rampage (100% SK99 dyneema) and I thought might be decent to start with as opposed to VEC-99 which I normally use. Is rampage an acceptable material for flemish?

I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


----------



## Huntinsker

The Infidel said:


> Question for all the flemish gurus out there.
> 
> I have been making endless loop strings for a few years but I want to try my hand at flemish. I normally stretch my strings to 400 lbs but I wasnt sure if that's detrimental to a flemish string. What do you guys normally stretch to?
> 
> I've got several spools of Brownell Rampage (100% SK99 dyneema) and I thought might be decent to start with as opposed to VEC-99 which I normally use. Is rampage an acceptable material for flemish?
> 
> I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


The material choice really depends more on the bow than anything. If the bow has reinforced tips and is able to handle more modern materials, it should work fine. I usually make my Flemish twist with B55 or D97. The B55 I don't even have enough travel on my stretcher to get it to reach 400lbs because it's so stretchy compared to more modern materials. The D97 I tension up to 300 or so and then I'll have to put some more on it as the fibers settle in. Flemish twist will have a lot more settling to do than endless loop as the wax and the fiber nestle into their spots in the bundle. Even though I can't get the strings up to what I do endless loop strings for, it's way higher than they'll see on the bow so I know it's good enough. 

I will say that I do many times more endless loop and compound strings than I do Flemish twist so it usually takes me a couple times of making the string, taking it apart and remaking it to get to the right length. There's much more technique involved to be consistent and I just don't give it the time. The amount you twist each bundle before wrapping them over each other, the number of reverse twists before doing the other loop, the size of the loops etc. etc. all will change the length in the end. For that reason it takes a lot more practice to get consistent with it, even if you have a good jig to get the initial length of material for the string.


----------



## The Infidel

Huntinsker said:


> The material choice really depends more on the bow than anything. If the bow has reinforced tips and is able to handle more modern materials, it should work fine. I usually make my Flemish twist with B55 or D97. The B55 I don't even have enough travel on my stretcher to get it to reach 400lbs because it's so stretchy compared to more modern materials. The D97 I tension up to 300 or so and then I'll have to put some more on it as the fibers settle in. Flemish twist will have a lot more settling to do than endless loop as the wax and the fiber nestle into their spots in the bundle. Even though I can't get the strings up to what I do endless loop strings for, it's way higher than they'll see on the bow so I know it's good enough.
> 
> I will say that I do many times more endless loop and compound strings than I do Flemish twist so it usually takes me a couple times of making the string, taking it apart and remaking it to get to the right length. There's much more technique involved to be consistent and I just don't give it the time. The amount you twist each bundle before wrapping them over each other, the number of reverse twists before doing the other loop, the size of the loops etc. etc. all will change the length in the end. For that reason it takes a lot more practice to get consistent with it, even if you have a good jig to get the initial length of material for the string.


It makes sense that it takes a bit more time to settle given that there are twists within twists. 

I'm shooting a bear super grizzly with reinforced tips so I think I'm ok to use Rampage. As I get more into this I'm sure I'll buy more recurve specific string. I just wanted to make sure that nothing would get damaged if I stretched it the same as an endless loop style. 

Thanks for your help as I journey in to yet another black hole in my quest to be the best worst archer in history.

I literally have no idea what I'm doing.......ever.


----------



## CKCECB

For the handful of Flemish twist strings I have done, I think it was key for me to set each loop by giving them a good pull while on a post or hook before putting the string on the stretcher for twisting and tensioning. I usually can only get around 250# with a Flemish on my El Cheapo using 8125. For B55 I can't even get to 200#.


----------



## automan26

*THE BUMPS REVISITED:*
If you build strings long enough, there's a good chance you will someday develop a case of the bumps when you relax your string. The bumps are small bulges in the string that have no effect on string performance, they just look ugly. Over burnishing can cause the bumps by creating small crumple zones, but lately I've discovered another culprit that had been sneaking up on me when I wasn't looking.

For quite awhile I was getting the bumps on every string I built. Multi color, pinstripe, solid color,,,, It didn't seem to matter. The worst part was that the bumps were showing up before I did anything serious with the string. I would lay out the string, twist it, stretch it, but as soon as I backed off on the tension to allow it to relax, bumps were popping up everywhere. It appeared that there was no identifiable cause; they were just showing up. I was very frustrated as to the cause, because the bumps were appearing too early in the build process.

After some experimenting I discovered the source of my problem. I had developed a bad habit of allowing too much tension to build up in my string as I was twisting. I had the mistaken idea that if I twisted under firm tension the extra tension would keep the strands straight and in line, thus producing a string in which all the strands were aligned perfectly. Sometimes I would periodically back off the tension on my jig during the twisting process, but I would allow the tension to build until my last several twists rotated very stiffly.

I modified my twisting procedure and now I loosen the hold down bolts on my adjusting head and allow it to walk forward as I twist. I demonstrate this procedure in my video on jig operation, but I was too lazy to follow my own advice. I keep firm backward hand pressure against the jig head as I add the twists letting the head move inward as the string shortens, thus allowing for consistent tension during the entire twisting process. Even though I'm applying only moderate tension to the string when twisting, my final result is a string with zero stretch and zero peep rotation from shot-one with no bumps.

If you are suffering from a constant case of the bumps, try this method of twisting and I'd bet the problem vanishes.

Automan


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## 4th

That’s great advice Automan26 can’t wait to try that process. Thanks!


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## automan26

At about 11:00 I explain this.







Automan


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## lunghit

Since I started building about 8 years ago I have done nothing but tag ends and have no reason to switch. Lately I have been having the urge to serve my end loops but don't know if it's worth it. I never had the slightest issue using tags and the few times I tried served loops I was not happy. I didn't like the twists I was getting in the loop area and transferring to the stretcher was always a concern. Tags have been flawless and I have no separation, peep twists and the loops always look perfect. So any advantages to going served? The jigs will cost some money but not sure if it's worth it.


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## automan26

I've also always been a fan of using the tags. Served loops do look a bit nicer, but once they're installed on the cam post they are mostly hidden anyway. I like tags because once I start building, my string remains undisturbed on the jig until finished. Like you, I don't like the twisting that is induced between the posts by the serving bobbin.

Served loops have gained popularity, but tag loops have been used for decades, thus proving themselves to be of quality. Some commercial string makers used tags exclusively for many years but have chosen to go to served loops in order to satisfy the current fad that served loops are superior to tags.

I'm not convinced.

(That's my 2 cents on the subject.)

Automan


----------



## 138104

lunghit said:


> Since I started building about 8 years ago I have done nothing but tag ends and have no reason to switch. Lately I have been having the urge to serve my end loops but don't know if it's worth it. I never had the slightest issue using tags and the few times I tried served loops I was not happy. I didn't like the twists I was getting in the loop area and transferring to the stretcher was always a concern. Tags have been flawless and I have no separation, peep twists and the loops always look perfect. So any advantages to going served? The jigs will cost some money but not sure if it's worth it.


Here are my thoughts. Served loops hold up better to taking on and off the pegs. They look cleaner. They are a bit quicker. If you use a 6-post setup, you can save time building buss cables. Less finger cuts. 

The twisting is a real concern. It isn’t an issue on single colors, but can wreak havoc with 2+ color strings. If you can put tension on the 4-post set, it helps. It is really frustrating though. However, it doesn’t affect the performance, but can be visible under clear serving.


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> Since I started building about 8 years ago I have done nothing but tag ends and have no reason to switch. Lately I have been having the urge to serve my end loops but don't know if it's worth it. I never had the slightest issue using tags and the few times I tried served loops I was not happy. I didn't like the twists I was getting in the loop area and transferring to the stretcher was always a concern. Tags have been flawless and I have no separation, peep twists and the loops always look perfect. So any advantages to going served? The jigs will cost some money but not sure if it's worth it.


I've been having the same internal conversation with myself. I have no problem with tag end loops but would like to try served more. I've just not had great results, likely from lack of practice. I have a home made 4 post jig but need to improve it and make it more stiff than it is now. I'll be getting a tig welder soon so that should make that job relatively easy but I still don't know if it's worth the effort. Not sure there's a clear cut answer though. Just going to have to be a decision to do it or not to do it. Ultimately I'm probably going to do it just because I like to be able to do all aspects of whatever it is I'm doing.


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## lunghit

I'm going to debate it but it's definitely not a must. I just finished a set for a PSE EVL 34 I have on order and I couldn't ask for better results. Another thing is I am not looking forward to getting more formulas down by trial and error. I have the tag end method down so good that when I am done twisting every measurement is usually spot on.


----------



## skullerud

I logged in to ask a question about peep rotation, and I'm wondering if the latest posts might address the problem.
I've built strings for 10 years now, and 9 out of 10 is perfect with absolutely no peep rotation or creep from first shot. The rest settles in after 10 to 50 shots. 
Then a few weeks ago I made a 3-color string from BCY 452x for a Reckoning 38, following my normal procedure, and no matter how I twist the string to position the peep, it will make 1/8 turn to the left. I've tried to change the orientation of the Dloop without any noticeable difference. 
It's manageable by positioning the Dloop so it pulls the peep into full draw position, but that's not good enough for the prig in me.
I serve my end loops, secure the serving tool in both ends, and then stretch at 300# over night. Burnish, serves the same way as I twist, and do all servings under 200# stretch. 
the string look fantastic, but something is obviously wrong.

So any tip on why this is happening would be highly appreciated. 

Sent fra min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


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## automan26

I would look at a couple of possible causes. First, the issue could be that your peep is not in the exact center of the string. Having more strands on one side of the peep as opposed to the opposite side could cause your issue.

Second, your problem could be caused by having the peep served in too tightly. Remove the peep serving, then draw the bow while watching the peep. If the peep stops twisting, you've isolated the peep serving as the culprit. If it continues to rotate you may have a strand imbalance. 

Automan


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## skullerud

Thanks, mate.
I know for sure that the strand count is correct.
The peep tie in is a bit tighter than normal. I will check that tonight.



Sent fra min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


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## Gene1

From my understanding just because your strands counts are correct on each side does not mean your strands have the same tension on layout between each color if your not careful.
Did you split it in the middle with the post or color separation?
I insert a thread loop for the peep where the post are. You will need to insert extra thread loops on both sides of the peep loop so you can pull out and separate the colors above and below the loop after you twist the cables.


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## skullerud

automan26 said:


> Second, your problem could be caused by having the peep served in too tightly.
> 
> Automan


You were spot on, mate!
The peep serving was the culprit!
Now everything is peachy again, and my string builder confident is restored 

Sent fra min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## skullerud

@Gene1
I always do as you do. Tie in a piece of string material before I start twisting the string.
And as you might have read in my answer to Automan, the culprit was way to hard peep tie ins.

Sent fra min SM-N975F via Tapatalk


----------



## Gene1

Good to know that about the peep tie in.
What does it mean hard tie ins?
The top and bottom serving too close to the peep or the tie around the peep is too tight?


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## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> Good to know that about the peep tie in.
> What does it mean hard tie ins?
> The top and bottom serving too close to the peep or the tie around the peep is too tight?


Too close to the peep so that the knots squeeze the triangles above and below the peep. This can make even a perfectly stable string have peep rotation.


----------



## Gene1

Thanks for explaining.


----------



## Frenchlepricon

Huntinsker said:


> String Building Formula
> 
> Here is a good formula for determining the proper number of twists and the finished string length:
> Finished Length X .75 = Number of Twists
> Number of twists X .012 + finished length= Initial Jig Post Setting.
> Example: 100” String
> 100 X .75=75 (Twists)
> 75 X .012=0.9”
> 100” + 0.9”=100.9” (Initial Post Setting)
> Add 75 twists to your 100.9” string and you should be very close to your finished length.


Hi, I really like this building formulas for setting the correct jib post and the ideal no of twist.
I suspect this formula would change based on the material used for the string as each would have their own stretch ability. I'm using BCY 452x
I also suspect that for shorter string / cable the no of twist also reduces ?
and do you stretch the string before you twist it or after?
Thx


----------



## Huntinsker

Frenchlepricon said:


> Hi, I really like this building formulas for setting the correct jib post and the ideal no of twist.
> I suspect this formula would change based on the material used for the string as each would have their own stretch ability. I'm using BCY 452x
> I also suspect that for shorter string / cable the no of twist also reduces ?
> and do you stretch the string before you twist it or after?
> Thx


Correct on all counts though I don't typically change the twist rate from what the formula says for a given length of piece. For me, I have one formula that I use and based on the length of piece and the material I'm using, I will subtract a little bit from the formula based off of my experience. Not an exact science for me, because there are too many variables that do not change linearly to account for, so I go a little from "feel" and experience. 

For instance, when building with 452x, I know that it stretches a little more than Fury does so I set the posts for a Fury set a little longer than I would for a 452x set. On a 30" cable I'll set the Fury set to exactly what my formula says but for a 452x set, I might set it 1/16-3/32" short. On a 60" string, I might set Fury 1/8" longer than 452x to account for the increase in length the 452x will yield. 

For twists in different length pieces, I stick to the formula and the formula will give a different number for each length. The shorter the piece, obviously the fewer twists you'll put in so that the twist rate will look the same for each piece.

I do stretch before twisting for about 5-10 minutes. I used to do longer but it's not necessary. Then I twist, burnish and stretch again, at least an hour for a string and 45 minutes for a cable.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

Out of interest, and a desire for more uniform process… does anyone who transfers serving from a large spool to a jig spool have a good setup for doing so consistently?

I run the serving through a spare jig, to apply some tension, but it’s not overly uniform.. any neat setups out there that aren’t stupidly expensive to put together? 

Tom


----------



## Huntinsker

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Out of interest, and a desire for more uniform process… does anyone who transfers serving from a large spool to a jig spool have a good setup for doing so consistently?
> 
> I run the serving through a spare jig, to apply some tension, but it’s not overly uniform.. any neat setups out there that aren’t stupidly expensive to put together?
> 
> Tom


I was going to make something out of a self-reversing screw from a big saltwater fishing reel but I started it and never got back to it after moving to a new house. I've seen a few things where people will move the serving back and forth by hand but nothing automated that's not pretty expensive. I just do what you do and haven't noticed enough ill effects to really put more effort into it especially now that I don't seem to have time for about a hundred other projects that I want to do.


----------



## lunghit

What do you guys use to mark your serving lengths with? I stretch to 100 then mark all start and stop measurements with a dot of black marker. This can smear and look dirty on bright strings.


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## CKCECB

I start and stop the serving "outboard" of my marks, covering them up.


----------



## 138104

lunghit said:


> What do you guys use to mark your serving lengths with? I stretch to 100 then mark all start and stop measurements with a dot of black marker. This can smear and look dirty on bright strings.


If using colored serving, I mark it with a dot where I start my back serving so it doesn’t smear. With clear, I use painters tape to mark the spots. However, always double-check to make sure the tape didn’t move.


----------



## lunghit

CKCECB said:


> I start and stop the serving "outboard" of my marks, covering them up.


I do also and I should clarify. The problem I run into is when I use clear serving. I can see it under the serving.


----------



## lunghit

Perry24 said:


> If using colored serving, I mark it with a dot where I start my back serving so it doesn’t smear. With clear, I use painters tape to mark the spots. However, always double-check to make sure the tape didn’t move.


I do the same with the back serve. I know how long 10 and 20 wraps of back serving is of all my materials so I can hide the mark under the serving. I will try the tape trick. Thanks


----------



## Huntinsker

lunghit said:


> What do you guys use to mark your serving lengths with? I stretch to 100 then mark all start and stop measurements with a dot of black marker. This can smear and look dirty on bright strings.


Nothing. I don't like to have a marker smear on the string, especially with clear servings. I just measure from the post, start the serving and finish at the loop. If it's in the middle of the string I'll do the same but will put a twist tie around the string about 1" from where the serving should stop so I know when I'm about done and can remeasure and finish where I want.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Nothing. I don't like to have a marker smear on the string, especially with clear servings. I just measure from the post, start the serving and finish at the loop. If it's in the middle of the string I'll do the same but will put a twist tie around the string about 1" from where the serving should stop so I know when I'm about done and can remeasure and finish where I want.


Twist tie sounds best! I like clear serving for the cable guard area on my bows and that sounds like the way to go. Thanks


----------



## Aeolian

Huntinsker said:


> Nothing. I don't like to have a marker smear on the string, especially with clear servings. I just measure from the post, start the serving and finish at the loop. If it's in the middle of the string I'll do the same but will put a twist tie around the string about 1" from where the serving should stop so I know when I'm about done and can remeasure and finish where I want.


I use a whiteboard marker.
Still smears ,but very easy to wipe away,leaving no trace whatsoever,with just a damp cloth or damp kitchen napkin .


----------



## Leviw96

Hey all. I have been lurking on this thread for a couple months. And have built a string jig following the elcheapo plans. I have some questions about strings and servings. I think I want to use either bcy x or 452x. I can get both of those from 60x strings. The serving is what I’m wondering about. Any ideas on a good size center serving for gold tip 0.245 nocks. 
and a good size end serving. Im not going to serve the end loops.
After I make some test string I’m going to be making strings primarily for a Hoyt ultratec and some bear single cam bows


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## Dw4d3

Just saving my place for later. Don’t mind me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Leviw96 said:


> Hey all. I have been lurking on this thread for a couple months. And have built a string jig following the elcheapo plans. I have some questions about strings and servings. I think I want to use either bcy x or 452x. I can get both of those from 60x strings. The serving is what I’m wondering about. Any ideas on a good size center serving for gold tip 0.245 nocks.
> and a good size end serving. Im not going to serve the end loops.
> After I make some test string I’m going to be making strings primarily for a Hoyt ultratec and some bear single cam bows


.018 Powergrip over 22 strands of 452x for the center serving and .014 halo for the end servings. Some of the Bear single cam bows are hard on the buss cable end serving and I've had good luck with .014 powergrip for the buss cable end serving as well.


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## Leviw96

Thanks for the response huntinsker. I will try those sizes to start.


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## Gene1

My daughter got me 3 spools of string for Christmas.
I had to make some strings. I figure this way I can try a few different combos.


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> My daughter got me 3 spools of string for Christmas.
> I had to make some strings. I figure this way I can try a few different combos.
> View attachment 7534443
> View attachment 7534444


Looks pretty good but you'll need to re-route your cables so they cross below the rod and don't rub. Buss cable is always on the inside of the control and in the deep grove of the slide.


----------



## Bcorb

So today I took the strings and cables off of my Bear Redemption EKO to measure to get ready to make a set up. The string serving only measure up to 0.090" with a caliper. This is smaller then any other string I have measured. I am wondering what string count I should use with BCY 452x and .014 halo. I also have 0.009 power grip. Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is for a 70# bow.


----------



## Gene1

Huntinsker said:


> Looks pretty good but you'll need to re-route your cables so they cross below the rod and don't rub. Buss cable is always on the inside of the control and in the deep grove of the slide.


Good eye. I saw that after I pulled it off the press and had to switch it out. But I already took the pic before hand and I figure no one will notice. I was wrong. Thanks for looking out!


----------



## Huntinsker

Bcorb said:


> So today I took the strings and cables off of my Bear Redemption EKO to measure to get ready to make a set up. The string serving only measure up to 0.090" with a caliper. This is smaller then any other string I have measured. I am wondering what string count I should use with BCY 452x and .014 halo. I also have 0.009 power grip. Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is for a 70# bow.


You might count the strands in the factory string and see what they have in it. I haven't purchased a new Bear in a good while but they were running "light" strings in the past and had fewer strands than most other strings on the market. They also use 2x end servings on the strings which finishes pretty small. Even with the "light" strings, they used 24 strands of 452x for the cables for some stability. Every Bear I've worked on or own would have 22 strands of 452x in the string if I were building the set with 452x.


----------



## Bcorb

Thank you very much Huntinsker!


----------



## Gene1

Someone asked me last night have I ever used bloodline b99 glow in dark string? Website claims new for 2021. I did a search on AT and see this stuff was around 2009. Did it not take off and they trying again?
Has anyone tried them good or bad?


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

I’ve made 1 1/2 sets with it (someone just needed main string), very gimmicky, and super expensive… works the same as any of the other B99 colours, does look super cool under a black light for night photo shoots though :-D 

T


----------



## Gene1

It does have a cool factor. I guess you need to carry a UV light and turn off the range lights and hope not to get thrown out. Lol


----------



## Huntinsker

Gene1 said:


> It does have a cool factor. I guess you need to carry a UV light and turn off the range lights and hope not to get thrown out. Lol


Night bowfishers would enjoy it.


----------



## lunghit

automan26 said:


> *THE BUMPS REVISITED:*
> If you build strings long enough, there's a good chance you will someday develop a case of the bumps when you relax your string. The bumps are small bulges in the string that have no effect on string performance, they just look ugly. Over burnishing can cause the bumps by creating small crumple zones, but lately I've discovered another culprit that had been sneaking up on me when I wasn't looking.
> 
> For quite awhile I was getting the bumps on every string I built. Multi color, pinstripe, solid color,,,, It didn't seem to matter. The worst part was that the bumps were showing up before I did anything serious with the string. I would lay out the string, twist it, stretch it, but as soon as I backed off on the tension to allow it to relax, bumps were popping up everywhere. It appeared that there was no identifiable cause; they were just showing up. I was very frustrated as to the cause, because the bumps were appearing too early in the build process.
> 
> After some experimenting I discovered the source of my problem. I had developed a bad habit of allowing too much tension to build up in my string as I was twisting. I had the mistaken idea that if I twisted under firm tension the extra tension would keep the strands straight and in line, thus producing a string in which all the strands were aligned perfectly. Sometimes I would periodically back off the tension on my jig during the twisting process, but I would allow the tension to build until my last several twists rotated very stiffly.
> 
> I modified my twisting procedure and now I loosen the hold down bolts on my adjusting head and allow it to walk forward as I twist. I demonstrate this procedure in my video on jig operation, but I was too lazy to follow my own advice. I keep firm backward hand pressure against the jig head as I add the twists letting the head move inward as the string shortens, thus allowing for consistent tension during the entire twisting process. Even though I'm applying only moderate tension to the string when twisting, my final result is a string with zero stretch and zero peep rotation from shot-one with no bumps.
> 
> If you are suffering from a constant case of the bumps, try this method of twisting and I'd bet the problem vanishes.
> 
> Automan


Automan are you still giving the strands a pre-stretch before twisting? If so how many pounds of tension?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## automan26

I don't pre-stretch before twisting. I find that initially laying out the strands under somewhat even tension is sufficient. Tensioning the string after twisting has always equalized the strands just fine.

Automan


----------



## lunghit

Good to know. I’m going to be making a string later on and I’ll use a lot less twisting tension than normal. I’ll let you know how the bumbs go haha.


----------



## 138104

lunghit said:


> Good to know. I’m going to be making a string later on and I’ll use a lot less twisting tension than normal. I’ll let you know how the bumbs go haha.


When twisting, I keep the tension between 100-150#. This took care of the occasional bumps I was getting from letting it go too high.


----------



## lunghit

That’s good to know Perry. Bumps haven’t been a huge issue, just look ugly on a slack string but going to try some of these tips. Thanks


----------



## lunghit

automan26 said:


> *THE BUMPS REVISITED:*
> If you build strings long enough, there's a good chance you will someday develop a case of the bumps when you relax your string. The bumps are small bulges in the string that have no effect on string performance, they just look ugly. Over burnishing can cause the bumps by creating small crumple zones, but lately I've discovered another culprit that had been sneaking up on me when I wasn't looking.
> 
> For quite awhile I was getting the bumps on every string I built. Multi color, pinstripe, solid color,,,, It didn't seem to matter. The worst part was that the bumps were showing up before I did anything serious with the string. I would lay out the string, twist it, stretch it, but as soon as I backed off on the tension to allow it to relax, bumps were popping up everywhere. It appeared that there was no identifiable cause; they were just showing up. I was very frustrated as to the cause, because the bumps were appearing too early in the build process.
> 
> After some experimenting I discovered the source of my problem. I had developed a bad habit of allowing too much tension to build up in my string as I was twisting. I had the mistaken idea that if I twisted under firm tension the extra tension would keep the strands straight and in line, thus producing a string in which all the strands were aligned perfectly. Sometimes I would periodically back off the tension on my jig during the twisting process, but I would allow the tension to build until my last several twists rotated very stiffly.
> 
> I modified my twisting procedure and now I loosen the hold down bolts on my adjusting head and allow it to walk forward as I twist. I demonstrate this procedure in my video on jig operation, but I was too lazy to follow my own advice. I keep firm backward hand pressure against the jig head as I add the twists letting the head move inward as the string shortens, thus allowing for consistent tension during the entire twisting process. Even though I'm applying only moderate tension to the string when twisting, my final result is a string with zero stretch and zero peep rotation from shot-one with no bumps.
> 
> If you are suffering from a constant case of the bumps, try this method of twisting and I'd bet the problem vanishes.
> 
> Automan


Well that definitely cured the bumps. I twisted and never let the tension go above 100 pounds. I just removed the string and it's perfect! Thanks Automan


----------



## Marballfire

Hi all,

I'm relatively new to string building (only for myself) and have a recurring problem with peep twist on the strings I'm building. Some basics on what I'm doing:


single color: laying out all the strands using a spool tensioner I made set to about 4 lbs to keep tension consistent.
using tag end serving for the loop ends
tensioning before serving for 30 minutes or so at 350#
twisting at 100-150# (relieving tension as it builds)
stretching at #350 for a minimum of an hour, checking it periodically and tensioning to 350 until it stays there
-Taking the string off to rest overnight then putting back on to 100# to measure and add/remove twists as needed
-tensioning to 350# and serving using F clamps to keep string from twisting. Most recent attempt I kept the beiter to about 6 lbs
- serving is applied clockwise when standing behind the serving tool. Generally I serve from the end loop toward the center, but when standing behind the tool I am always spinning it clockwise around the string.
-string usually rests for at least a day or two before I get a chance to get it into the bow.

Any thoughts on what I may be doing wrong?


----------



## automan26

The very first thing I would suspect would be your peep serving. If it's tied too tightly your peep will rotate. With the peep installed, the string will split and form a "V" above and below the peep. If your peep serving crunches the V too much it will produce peep twist. Remove your peep serving and draw the bow, watching your peep. If the peep dosen't twist you've found the problem.

Automan


----------



## Marballfire

automan26 said:


> The very first thing I would suspect would be your peep serving. If it's tied too tightly your peep will rotate. With the peep installed, the string will split and form a "V" above and below the peep. If your peep serving crunches the V too much it will produce peep twist. Remove your peep serving and draw the bow, watching your peep. If the peep dosen't twist you've found the problem.
> 
> Automan


That is one area that I'm actually not concerned with. When I tie in the peep I just do a constrictor knot around the perimeter of the peep without actually tying it in above or below. I did that specifically for the purpose of removing that issue from the equation. Unless not tying above and below is causing a problem?


----------



## 138104

Marballfire said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm relatively new to string building (only for myself) and have a recurring problem with peep twist on the strings I'm building. Some basics on what I'm doing:
> 
> 
> single color: laying out all the strands using a spool tensioner I made set to about 4 lbs to keep tension consistent.
> using tag end serving for the loop ends
> tensioning before serving for 30 minutes or so at 350#
> twisting at 100-150# (relieving tension as it builds)
> stretching at #350 for a minimum of an hour, checking it periodically and tensioning to 350 until it stays there
> -Taking the string off to rest overnight then putting back on to 100# to measure and add/remove twists as needed
> -tensioning to 350# and serving using F clamps to keep string from twisting. Most recent attempt I kept the beiter to about 6 lbs
> - serving is applied clockwise when standing behind the serving tool. Generally I serve from the end loop toward the center, but when standing behind the tool I am always spinning it clockwise around the string.
> -string usually rests for at least a day or two before I get a chance to get it into the bow.
> 
> Any thoughts on what I may be doing wrong?


I wouldn’t tension to 350 before twisting. When I did tag ends, I would do my layup and then set the jig to a 100# for a few minutes to equalize the strands. Then, I did my loops, twisted, and stretched for 2 hrs on the string and an hour for the cables. I allowed at least 30 mins to rest, checked my lengths, and then served. I like about 12# serving jig tension for strings and as tight as I can for cables.

I also found that when using a higher twist rate, I had a bit of peep rotation if I had to add additional twists. I dropped from .75 to .67 and that issue went away.


----------



## Marballfire

Perry24 said:


> I wouldn’t tension to 350 before twisting. When I did tag ends, I would do my layup and then set the jig to a 100# for a few minutes to equalize the strands. Then, I did my loops, twisted, and stretched for 2 hrs on the string and an hour for the cables. I allowed at least 30 mins to rest, checked my lengths, and then served. I like about 12# serving jig tension for strings and as tight as I can for cables.
> 
> I also found that when using a higher twist rate, I had a bit of peep rotation if I had to add additional twists. I dropped from .75 to .67 and that issue went away.


I did wonder about the twist rate. I've been using .75 and the strings have been coming out spot on in length without adding or removing twists, but they also seem to want to twist up on themselves when resting.


----------



## rapids

Marballfire, you mentioned that you serve your threads from the loops towards the center, clockwise when standing behind the serving tool. But, you never mentioned which way you initially twist your threads, clockwise or counterclockwise. I personally initially twist my threads clockwise and then serve towards the loops using the “serving direction prop” that automan previously posted a while back to make sure I always serve in the proper direction no matter where I start the serving.


----------



## Marballfire

rapids said:


> Marballfire, you mentioned that you serve your threads from the loops towards the center, clockwise when standing behind the serving tool. But, you never mentioned which way you initially twist your threads, clockwise or counterclockwise. I personally initially twist my threads clockwise and then serve towards the loops using the “serving direction prop” that automan previously posted a while back to make sure I always serve in the proper direction no matter where I start the serving.


I also twist the strings clockwise. I am winding the serving jig around the string clockwise, i.e. the same direction such that I would be adding twists if it were not under tension.


----------



## 138104

Marballfire said:


> I did wonder about the twist rate. I've been using .75 and the strings have been coming out spot on in length without adding or removing twists, but they also seem to want to twist up on themselves when resting.


If they are twisting up on themselves, you might be serving in the wrong direction. As cheesy as it might sound, make a clock on put it on the end you are serving towards. Then, serve clockwise. Here’s a video automan did.


----------



## rapids

Marballfire said:


> I also twist the strings clockwise. I am winding the serving jig around the string clockwise, i.e. the same direction such that I would be adding twists if it were not under tension.


Just wanted to make sure you are serving in the proper direction. And, the picture of the directional serving tool in Perry’s post is the one I always use.


----------



## Marballfire

Perry24 said:


> If they are twisting up on themselves, you might be serving in the wrong direction. As cheesy as it might sound, make a clock on put it on the end you are serving towards. Then, serve clockwise. Here’s a video automan did.


That confirms I am serving in the right direction. Once they are served they don't twist up on themselves (probably because there is so little exposed string left). It is more when I have them resting after twisting and stretching, but before serving.


----------



## Huntinsker

Marballfire said:


> That confirms I am serving in the right direction. Once they are served they don't twist up on themselves (probably because there is so little exposed string left). It is more when I have them resting after twisting and stretching, but before serving.


They'll always do that. It's just the string relaxing and shrinking back down to their normal, not stretched length. 

You mention that you use a layout tool and have it at 4lbs. Every wrap that you do, it will add tension to the jig and if you have any flex or compression of your spring, you'll have some shorter strands than others. Here's a video that Nestly did and put in the thread somewhere several years ago. 




Because of this, I just hold the spool by hand and ease off on my tension with each wrap. You might also try doing half the bundle at a time instead of all the wraps in one continuous loop. It's easier to be consistent on 6 wraps than it is to be on 12 wraps. You also don't need to tension the string so high, for so long before twisting. 200lbs for 5-10 minutes is plenty if your layout tension isn't way off. 

If you're absolutely certain that you're not serving the wrong way, it's either that you're serving too tightly or you're getting uneven bundle tension during layout. Could be from jig flex or compression of your spring or that your tool isn't as consistent as you'd like.


----------



## Marballfire

Huntinsker said:


> They'll always do that. It's just the string relaxing and shrinking back down to their normal, not stretched length.
> 
> You mention that you use a layout tool and have it at 4lbs. Every wrap that you do, it will add tension to the jig and if you have any flex or compression of your spring, you'll have some shorter strands than others. Here's a video that Nestly did and put in the thread somewhere several years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because of this, I just hold the spool by hand and ease off on my tension with each wrap. You might also try doing half the bundle at a time instead of all the wraps in one continuous loop. It's easier to be consistent on 6 wraps than it is to be on 12 wraps. You also don't need to tension the string so high, for so long before twisting. 200lbs for 5-10 minutes is plenty if your layout tension isn't way off.
> 
> If you're absolutely certain that you're not serving the wrong way, it's either that you're serving too tightly or you're getting uneven bundle tension during layout. Could be from jig flex or compression of your spring or that your tool isn't as consistent as you'd like.


Thank you - I had actually seen that video showing that the tension is compounding. The layout portion of my jig doesn't incorporate a spring, but next time I do a layout I'll measure the posts after I'm done to see if they are compressing together. I've put measures in place to counter that, but certainly doesn't hurt to check. I also haven't been putting any extra tension on the layout before doing the loops to try to even out tension on the strands...would that be a good step to take?


----------



## Huntinsker

Marballfire said:


> Thank you - I had actually seen that video showing that the tension is compounding. The layout portion of my jig doesn't incorporate a spring, but next time I do a layout I'll measure the posts after I'm done to see if they are compressing together. I've put measures in place to counter that, but certainly doesn't hurt to check. I also haven't been putting any extra tension on the layout before doing the loops to try to even out tension on the strands...would that be a good step to take?


It certainly doesn't hurt to take the slack out of the bundle before doing the tag ends. That's one reason that I make all my strings with at least 2 bundles. So even for single color strings, I lay up half of the strands and cut the tag and then lay out the other half. That way I can pull the slack out of the bundle to help even the strand tension. You can see it happening as you pull. You don't really have to horse on it but you'll see that as you pull the tag ends, a few wraps of material will move around the posts where slack is coming out of them.


----------



## b0w_bender

Hi Folks I was at A3archery (bowstring manufacturer) www.a3archery.com, he was showing me the bloodline bowstring material. As per usual I'm likely late to this party but I was really impressed with their lineup. One of the things that always frustrated me about BCY materials was all the friggin wax. Bloodline is waxless which means it's a lot less likely to smear the multi-colored strings. (A3 says nearly impossible) Also without wax your servings are a lot less likely to separate. Now, I'll be honest I haven't started using it yet but... I did just order three rolls so I could do a little experimenting with it. I would love to hear how others feel about the BloodLine string material B99 and what the pitfalls might be if any?








B99 BOWSTRING MATERIAL


Build a better bowstring. Increase arrow speed. Bloodline 99 is made with a very small diameter of Dyneema® SK99 fiber. Combined with our Next GenCoating Technology, Bloodline 99 helps create a very tough and lightweight bowstring. B99 string material checks all of the boxes when it comes...




www.bloodlinefiber.com


----------



## 138104

b0w_bender said:


> Hi Folks I was at A3archery (bowstring manufacturer) www.a3archery.com, he was showing me the bloodline bowstring material. As per usual I'm likely late to this party but I was really impressed with their lineup. One of the things that always frustrated me about BCY materials was all the friggin wax. Bloodline is waxless which means it's a lot less likely to smear the multi-colored strings. (A3 says nearly impossible) Also without wax your servings are a lot less likely to separate. Now, I'll be honest I haven't started using it yet but... I did just order three rolls so I could do a little experimenting with it. I would love to hear how others feel about the BloodLine string material B99 and what the pitfalls might be if any?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B99 BOWSTRING MATERIAL
> 
> 
> Build a better bowstring. Increase arrow speed. Bloodline 99 is made with a very small diameter of Dyneema® SK99 fiber. Combined with our Next GenCoating Technology, Bloodline 99 helps create a very tough and lightweight bowstring. B99 string material checks all of the boxes when it comes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bloodlinefiber.com


I order low wax material from BCY and it eliminated the issues you speak of. With Bloodline, the material is so slick that it is tuff to layup and start your servings. Also, whatever the coating is that they use gets on your serving regardless of how much you burnish it. I wasn’t a fan.

As a positive, the colors look great.


----------



## b0w_bender

Thanks for the feedback Perry24, I'll watch out for that serving seepage.


----------



## 138104

b0w_bender said:


> Thanks for the feedback Perry24, I'll watch out for that serving seepage.


Yes, please keep us posted. I wanted to like the material, but that was a deal killer for me.


----------



## NC Archer

Thanks to all who have contributed in this thread, especially Huntinsker and Automan26 for starting this thread. What a wealth of information! I was so inspired that I had to build an El-Cheap-O string jig with some slight variations of my own. The ability to measure strings and cables accurately under 100 lbs of force is itself worth the price of the materials and labor to build this jig. I made my first string for my Elite Kure using 24 strands of 452X, and the peep does not rotate the slightest amount. I brought the string and cables to the exact length according to specs, under 100 lbs of force, and the axle to axle, brace height, and draw weight are DEAD NUTS ACCURATE!

Here's a couple pics of my setup. The arrow saw is mounted to the back.


----------



## automan26

Very nice work!!!! I can tell just by looking at it that you've built a quality tool. You have a right to take pride in that.

U Dun Gud

Automan


----------



## NC Archer

automan26 said:


> Very nice work!!!! I can tell just by looking at it that you've built a quality tool. You have a right to take pride in that.
> 
> U Dun Gud
> 
> Automan


Thanks.

It's solid. I put over 300 lbs of force on the string and the jig didn't flex a bit. Those brackets aren't cheap, though. The cheapest I found was on ebay for $50 for the 4 of them. The pins are precision 1/4" hardened that came from McMaster along with the spring. The clevises are exactly 1/4 holes, and the pins fit in the clevises VERY tight, with a tap of the hammer. They don't move a lick! The 1/2" eyebolts go through the brackets and into the superstrut nuts, so they also secure the brackets to the strut. It is solid as a rock, with no lateral movement. The bolts are 5/8-18 (fine thread) so they slide pretty easy, adjust a little more precise than course thread, and fine thread is stronger. I paid a little more for the materials, so Im not sure if it can be classified as "El-Cheap-O", but I'm very happy with it.


----------



## Racinray

Very nice!


----------



## Bigmf

hi all
firstly a big tank you to the originators of this thread and everyone who contributes, its an awesome resource to have access to ....so thankyou all
now to my problem at hand
ive recently changed from laying up on a 2 post to a 4 post and i keep coming up a 1/4 to 5/16 short ,i use 452x and 454
i keep my strand tension really consistant and i apply about 80/100 # to serve my loops at about 3# on my serving jigs(beiter and AAE)
now my formula on my 2 post always was within a twist or two no probss however when i apply it to my 4post im short 
so my method is 1.009 x req length and x..70/.75 for twist rate,then on my 4post i subtract 1 x post width (for me 8 1/4" as my posts are at 8" centers and 1/4" pegs)
now ive annalised the baker archery 4 post setting layout and post setting spread sheet and i dont think im doing anything wrong...my jig is home made, but solid and stable my post sets are square to each other....not sure why ,am i missing something?.....
i know i can fudge and manipulate my jig till i get what i need, but would just rather figure it out for future consistency and quality and my brain wont let me!!!
any input much appreciated


----------



## b0w_bender

Bigmf said:


> then on my 4post i subtract 1 x post width (for me 8 1/4" as my posts are at 8" centers and 1/4" pegs)


If you can rotate your post so they are all 4 posts in a straight line then it essentially is the same as your 2 post jig. Lay it up like you normally wood on the two post jig and then rotate the posts to the 90 degrees and serve your ends. No need to do any creative maths.


----------



## 138104

Bigmf said:


> hi all
> firstly a big tank you to the originators of this thread and everyone who contributes, its an awesome resource to have access to ....so thankyou all
> now to my problem at hand
> ive recently changed from laying up on a 2 post to a 4 post and i keep coming up a 1/4 to 5/16 short ,i use 452x and 454
> i keep my strand tension really consistant and i apply about 80/100 # to serve my loops at about 3# on my serving jigs(beiter and AAE)
> now my formula on my 2 post always was within a twist or two no probss however when i apply it to my 4post im short
> so my method is 1.009 x req length and x..70/.75 for twist rate,then on my 4post i subtract 1 x post width (for me 8 1/4" as my posts are at 8" centers and 1/4" pegs)
> now ive annalised the baker archery 4 post setting layout and post setting spread sheet and i dont think im doing anything wrong...my jig is home made, but solid and stable my post sets are square to each other....not sure why ,am i missing something?.....
> i know i can fudge and manipulate my jig till i get what i need, but would just rather figure it out for future consistency and quality and my brain wont let me!!!
> any input much appreciated


I had the same issue with my 4-post specs. I just used 7.75” instead of 8” and haven’t looked back.


----------



## Bigmf

Yeah thanks bow bender, we were on the same page, for a bit, but I didn't like altering the strand tension, to me I'm hoping there's away to work it out


----------



## NC Archer

Bigmf said:


> hi all
> firstly a big tank you to the originators of this thread and everyone who contributes, its an awesome resource to have access to ....so thankyou all
> now to my problem at hand
> ive recently changed from laying up on a 2 post to a 4 post and i keep coming up a 1/4 to 5/16 short ,i use 452x and 454
> i keep my strand tension really consistant and i apply about 80/100 # to serve my loops at about 3# on my serving jigs(beiter and AAE)
> now my formula on my 2 post always was within a twist or two no probss however when i apply it to my 4post im short
> so my method is 1.009 x req length and x..70/.75 for twist rate,then on my 4post i subtract 1 x post width (for me 8 1/4" as my posts are at 8" centers and 1/4" pegs)
> now ive annalised the baker archery 4 post setting layout and post setting spread sheet and i dont think im doing anything wrong...my jig is home made, but solid and stable my post sets are square to each other....not sure why ,am i missing something?.....
> i know i can fudge and manipulate my jig till i get what i need, but would just rather figure it out for future consistency and quality and my brain wont let me!!!
> any input much appreciated


Just a thought:

If you draw a square with all sides 8" in length, the total length would be 32". If the corners now become the centers of 1/4" posts, the string is longer in the amount of 1/4 circumference of a post for each post. Since there are 4 posts the string is longer by a total of 1 complete circumference. The circumference of a 1/4" post is pi × D, or 3.14159 × .25 = .785". So the string would be 32.785" long wrapping around the four 1/4" posts 8" on center apart. As long as there are 4 posts, the additional length will be 1 circumference of a post. If you only have 2 posts, then 1/2 a circumference is added for each post, and it is still 1 added circumference to the center distance between them. Just a guess where your calculations are not adding up.


----------



## Bigmf

You've got me thinking thanks guys, the solutions in there somewhere, to many 4 post jigs out there for it not to be


----------



## NC Archer

Strings are measured from end to end of two 1/4" posts, under 100 lbs of force. That means the distance from end to end is 1/4" longer than it is from center to center.

If your rotating posts on the four 1/4" post jig are 8" apart center to center, then they are 8-1/4" end to end, and each 4-1/8" from center of rotation to end of posts. If you rotate the posts 90 degrees to make the 4 posts inline, the distance from center of rotation to end of post on each end is 4-1/8", for a total of 8-1/4" additional distance than center of rotation to center of rotation lengthwise.

So if there was 30" between centers of rotation, the 4 posts inline would have an end to end distance of 30" + 4-1/8" + 4-1/8" = 38-1/4" long string. When the posts are rotated 90 degrees to a 4 post configuration the posts would be 8-1/4" wide from end to end, and 30-1/4" long from end to end.

That 38-1/4" long string is under no force with no twists. Under 100 lbs of force the string will be a little longer, maybe 1/8" - 1/4" longer. Twisting the string makes it shorter. In order to make the string longer to account for the shortening of the string due to twists, i've seen formulas that multiply finished string length × .75 to arrive at number of twists. Take that number of twists and multiply by .012 to arrive at the distance the string will shorten due to that number of twists. So that distance needs to be added to the required finished length, so that after twisting the string is the proper length. So if the string needs to be 58" long, 58 × .75 = 43.5 twists. 43.5 twists × .012 = .522. Add that .522 to the 58 to arrive at a length of 58.522" starting length before twisting. Twisted up 43.5 twists the string will shorten to 58", roughly.

So on your 4 post jig, you need a string that is 58.522" long measured end to end of two posts, prior to twisting. The string will be 8-1/4" longer than the center of rotation to center of rotation length. 58.522 - 8.25 = 50.272" center of rotation to center of rotation distance. Placing the centers of rotation 50.272" apart on a 4 post jig that the end to end width is 8-1/4" will make a string 58" long when it's twisted 43.5 times and measured on two 1/4" posts end to end.


----------



## Marballfire

NC Archer said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It's solid. I put over 300 lbs of force on the string and the jig didn't flex a bit. Those brackets aren't cheap, though. The cheapest I found was on ebay for $50 for the 4 of them. The pins are precision 1/4" hardened that came from McMaster along with the spring. The clevises are exactly 1/4 holes, and the pins fit in the clevises VERY tight, with a tap of the hammer. They don't move a lick! The 1/2" eyebolts go through the brackets and into the superstrut nuts, so they also secure the brackets to the strut. It is solid as a rock, with no lateral movement. The bolts are 5/8-18 (fine thread) so they slide pretty easy, adjust a little more precise than course thread, and fine thread is stronger. I paid a little more for the materials, so Im not sure if it can be classified as "El-Cheap-O", but I'm very happy with it.


Do you by chance have the details (part numbers) on the clevises/pins you used there? I have those same gusseted 90 degree brackets for my jig and just a single one at each end holds up to 350 lbs for stretching and serving with no issue. I was fortunate enough to get them for $6.55 each about 2 years ago, but I guess prices have climbed. They're now $13.40 each at gordon electric supply where I got them from.


----------



## NC Archer

Marballfire said:


> Do you by chance have the details (part numbers) on the clevises/pins you used there?


I bought them on ebay. The seller has them listed as 5/8-11 thread, but when I received them they are in fact 5/8-18 thread. I messaged the seller and told him the thread size is 5/8-18 and I needed 5/8-11, could he send me the correct ones. He replied sorry, he could not send me a different one, that he would refund me. I decided to keep them and get the 5/8-18 bolts and nuts to match them, because I liked them so much, and the pin holes are EXACTLY 1/4" to match my precise 1/4" hardened pins. Here's the link. I REPEAT, he sent me 5/8-18 thread, and they are listed as 5/8-11, which is incorrect.









Yoke Clevis Pin Yellow Zinc 5/8-11" Thread x 5/8" Width x 3-3/4" OAL Dual | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Yoke Clevis Pin Yellow Zinc 5/8-11" Thread x 5/8" Width x 3-3/4" OAL Dual at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





These are the pins that I got from McMaster:

4140 Alloy Steel Precision Clevis Pin, 1/4" Diameter, 2-5/16" Usable Length









McMaster-Carr


McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




www.mcmaster.com





The collars:

Set Screw Shaft Collar, for 1/4" Diameter, Black-Oxide 1215 Carbon Steel









McMaster-Carr


McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




www.mcmaster.com





The bolts:
Medium-Strength Grade 5 Steel Hex Head Screw, Zinc-Plated, 5/8"-18 Thread Size, 6" Long, Fully Threaded









McMaster-Carr


McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




www.mcmaster.com





The nuts:

Medium-Strength Steel Hex Nut, Grade 5, Zinc-Plated, 5/8"-18 Thread Size









McMaster-Carr


McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.




www.mcmaster.com






McMaster is expensive, but finding a 6" 5/8-18 fully threaded bolt is next to impossible. $14.74 each.


----------



## Marballfire

Awesome thanks very much!


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Who all has went from 452X to 454? I've been building with Bloodline but soon want to try out some different colors and I am considering my options. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


----------



## Bigmf

NC Archer said:


> Strings are measured from end to end of two 1/4" posts, under 100 lbs of force. That means the distance from end to end is 1/4" longer than it is from center to center.
> 
> If your rotating posts on the four 1/4" post jig are 8" apart center to center, then they are 8-1/4" end to end, and each 4-1/8" from center of rotation to end of posts. If you rotate the posts 90 degrees to make the 4 posts inline, the distance from center of rotation to end of post on each end is 4-1/8", for a total of 8-1/4" additional distance than center of rotation to center of rotation lengthwise.
> 
> So if there was 30" between centers of rotation, the 4 posts inline would have an end to end distance of 30" + 4-1/8" + 4-1/8" = 38-1/4" long string. When the posts are rotated 90 degrees to a 4 post configuration the posts would be 8-1/4" wide from end to end, and 30-1/4" long from end to end.
> 
> That 38-1/4" long string is under no force with no twists. Under 100 lbs of force the string will be a little longer, maybe 1/8" - 1/4" longer. Twisting the string makes it shorter. In order to make the string longer to account for the shortening of the string due to twists, i've seen formulas that multiply finished string length × .75 to arrive at number of twists. Take that number of twists and multiply by .012 to arrive at the distance the string will shorten due to that number of twists. So that distance needs to be added to the required finished length, so that after twisting the string is the proper length. So if the string needs to be 58" long, 58 × .75 = 43.5 twists. 43.5 twists × .012 = .522. Add that .522 to the 58 to arrive at a length of 58.522" starting length before twisting. Twisted up 43.5 twists the string will shorten to 58", roughly.
> 
> So on your 4 post jig, you need a string that is 58.522" long measured end to end of two posts, prior to twisting. The string will be 8-1/4" longer than the center of rotation to center of rotation length. 58.522 - 8.25 = 50.272" center of rotation to center of rotation distance. Placing the centers of rotation 50.272" apart on a 4 post jig that the end to end width is 8-1/4" will make a string 58" long when it's twisted 43.5 times and measured on two 1/4" posts end to end.





NC Archer said:


> Strings are measured from end to end of two 1/4" posts, under 100 lbs of force. That means the distance from end to end is 1/4" longer than it is from center to center.
> 
> If your rotating posts on the four 1/4" post jig are 8" apart center to center, then they are 8-1/4" end to end, and each 4-1/8" from center of rotation to end of posts. If you rotate the posts 90 degrees to make the 4 posts inline, the distance from center of rotation to end of post on each end is 4-1/8", for a total of 8-1/4" additional distance than center of rotation to center of rotation lengthwise.
> 
> So if there was 30" between centers of rotation, the 4 posts inline would have an end to end distance of 30" + 4-1/8" + 4-1/8" = 38-1/4" long string. When the posts are rotated 90 degrees to a 4 post configuration the posts would be 8-1/4" wide from end to end, and 30-1/4" long from end to end.
> 
> That 38-1/4" long string is under no force with no twists. Under 100 lbs of force the string will be a little longer, maybe 1/8" - 1/4" longer. Twisting the string makes it shorter. In order to make the string longer to account for the shortening of the string due to twists, i've seen formulas that multiply finished string length × .75 to arrive at number of twists. Take that number of twists and multiply by .012 to arrive at the distance the string will shorten due to that number of twists. So that distance needs to be added to the required finished length, so that after twisting the string is the proper length. So if the string needs to be 58" long, 58 × .75 = 43.5 twists. 43.5 twists × .012 = .522. Add that .522 to the 58 to arrive at a length of 58.522" starting length before twisting. Twisted up 43.5 twists the string will shorten to 58", roughly.
> 
> So on your 4 post jig, you need a string that is 58.522" long measured end to end of two posts, prior to twisting. The string will be 8-1/4" longer than the center of rotation to center of rotation length. 58.522 - 8.25 = 50.272" center of rotation to center of rotation distance. Placing the centers of rotation 50.272" apart on a 4 post jig that the end to end width is 8-1/4" will make a string 58" long when it's twisted 43.5 times and measured on two 1/4" posts end to end.


Hey there NC Archer,
Your absolutely correct thats the exactsame break down I went into trying to find where things wer going wrong.....it ended up being something much simpler.....a cheap ass chinese tapemeasure.....was 5/16sort over bout 65"!!!!!!
So only Lufkin or my trusty stanley from now on, cant believe I never checked it earlier (thanks bunnings)


----------



## NC Archer

Bigmf said:


> Hey there NC Archer,
> Your absolutely correct thats the exactsame break down I went into trying to find where things wer going wrong.....it ended up being something much simpler.....a cheap ass chinese tapemeasure.....was 5/16sort over bout 65"!!!!!!
> So only Lufkin or my trusty stanley from now on, cant believe I never checked it earlier (thanks bunnings)


LOL

Whodathunk??

That would be the very last thing I would have checked, and it should be the first. Glad you found the problem.


----------



## 138104

Bigmf said:


> Hey there NC Archer,
> Your absolutely correct thats the exactsame break down I went into trying to find where things wer going wrong.....it ended up being something much simpler.....a cheap ass chinese tapemeasure.....was 5/16sort over bout 65"!!!!!!
> So only Lufkin or my trusty stanley from now on, cant believe I never checked it earlier (thanks bunnings)


Wow, that is crazy! I guess I better check my tape measure against my old Stanley.


----------



## Bigmf

Perry24 said:


> Wow, that is crazy! I guess I better check my tape measure against my old Stanley.


yep, never trust the bargain bin at the big box store!!!


----------



## Jabr357

NC Archer said:


> Strings are measured from end to end of two 1/4" posts, under 100 lbs of force. That means the distance from end to end is 1/4" longer than it is from center to center.
> 
> If your rotating posts on the four 1/4" post jig are 8" apart center to center, then they are 8-1/4" end to end, and each 4-1/8" from center of rotation to end of posts. If you rotate the posts 90 degrees to make the 4 posts inline, the distance from center of rotation to end of post on each end is 4-1/8", for a total of 8-1/4" additional distance than center of rotation to center of rotation lengthwise.
> 
> So if there was 30" between centers of rotation, the 4 posts inline would have an end to end distance of 30" + 4-1/8" + 4-1/8" = 38-1/4" long string. When the posts are rotated 90 degrees to a 4 post configuration the posts would be 8-1/4" wide from end to end, and 30-1/4" long from end to end.
> 
> That 38-1/4" long string is under no force with no twists. Under 100 lbs of force the string will be a little longer, maybe 1/8" - 1/4" longer. Twisting the string makes it shorter. In order to make the string longer to account for the shortening of the string due to twists, i've seen formulas that multiply finished string length × .75 to arrive at number of twists. Take that number of twists and multiply by .012 to arrive at the distance the string will shorten due to that number of twists. So that distance needs to be added to the required finished length, so that after twisting the string is the proper length. So if the string needs to be 58" long, 58 × .75 = 43.5 twists. 43.5 twists × .012 = .522. Add that .522 to the 58 to arrive at a length of 58.522" starting length before twisting. Twisted up 43.5 twists the string will shorten to 58", roughly.
> 
> So on your 4 post jig, you need a string that is 58.522" long measured end to end of two posts, prior to twisting. The string will be 8-1/4" longer than the center of rotation to center of rotation length. 58.522 - 8.25 = 50.272" center of rotation to center of rotation distance. Placing the centers of rotation 50.272" apart on a 4 post jig that the end to end width is 8-1/4" will make a string 58" long when it's twisted 43.5 times and measured on two 1/4" posts end to end.


Thank you so much! Great analysis! Reminds me of a high school math problem LOL

So to confirm my understanding: If I have a 2x2 post jigs that are 9" apart (Original BAPs), I should subtract 9 1/4 from my formula obtained length, Correct? (Finished length + ((.75X Finished length) x .012)- 9 1/4)?


----------



## NC Archer

Jabr357 said:


> Thank you so much! Great analysis! Reminds me of a high school math problem LOL
> 
> So to confirm my understanding: If I have a 2x2 post jigs that are 9" apart (Original BAPs), I should subtract 9 1/4 from my formula obtained length, Correct? (Finished length + ((.75X Finished length) x .012)- 9 1/4)?


Assuming they are 1/4" pins, and by "9" apart" you mean center to center.

9" apart center to center means the center of the pin is 4-1/2" from the center of rotation, which means 4-5/8" from end of pin to center of rotation.
4-5/8" + 4-5/8" = 9-1/4" end to end.

But if you are measuring the width of the pins from end to end and calling that "9" apart," then the center to center is 8-3/4", and the distance from center of pin to center of rotation is 4-3/8". So the 4 pin inline distance would be 4-3/8" + 4-3/8" + distance between centers of rotation. So your formula would be - 8-3/4, not - 9-1/4, when measured END TO END.

When you measure a string in a two post configuration, you measure END TO END, not center to center.


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## 138104

NC Archer said:


> Assuming they are 1/4" pins, and by "9" apart" you mean center to center.
> 
> 9" apart center to center means the center of the pin is 4-1/2" from the center of rotation, which means 4-5/8" from end of pin to center of rotation.
> 4-5/8" + 4-5/8" = 9-1/4" end to end.
> 
> But if you are measuring the width of the pins from end to end and calling that "9" apart," then the center to center is 8-3/4", and the distance from center of pin to center of rotation is 4-3/8". So the 4 pin inline distance would be 4-3/8" + 4-3/8" + distance between centers of rotation. So your formula would be - 8-3/4, not - 9-1/4, when measured END TO END.
> 
> When you measure a string in a two post configuration, you measure END TO END, not center to center.


I’ve been reading these posts, but it wasn’t clicking. It finally did after reading this. Thank you!

My outside measurement is 8”, so that is why I needed to use 7-3/4” for my formula to work.


----------



## NC Archer

Perry24 said:


> I’ve been reading these posts, but it wasn’t clicking. It finally did after reading this. Thank you!
> 
> My outside measurement is 8”, so that is why I needed to use 7-3/4” for my formula to work.


I made a mistake. I just noticed it after reading your post. The formula should be - 9" if the outside to outside is 9". I used the center dimension instead of the outer dimensions, which would be 9", not 8-3/4". So the formula would subtract 9", not 8-3/4".

On yours, 8" outside measurement means 4" from outside to center of rotation. So when they are inline, you have the center of rotation distance, plus 4" on each end. So the center of rotation distance would be - 8", not - 8-1/4, and not - 7-3/4.

The center of rotation distance is 8" shorter than the outside measurment when inline, that's why it is - 8" in the formula.


----------



## Bigmf

Jabr357 said:


> Thank you so much! Great analysis! Reminds me of a high school math problem LOL
> 
> So to confirm my understanding: If I have a 2x2 post jigs that are 9" apart (Original BAPs), I should subtract 9 1/4 from my formula obtained length, Correct? (Finished length + ((.75X Finished length) x .012)- 9 1/4)?





Jabr357 said:


> Thank you so much! Great analysis! Reminds me of a high school math problem LOL
> 
> So to confirm my understanding: If I have a 2x2 post jigs that are 9" apart (Original BAPs), I should subtract 9 1/4 from my formula obtained length, Correct? (Finished length + ((.75X Finished length) x .012)- 9 1/4)?


Yeah, so nshort folow the steps in the explanation/breakdown, then you need to subtract (your) exact post width , ie:f your BAPs posts are exactly 9" overall subtract that, if your post width is 9 1/4" overall then subtract that. This step in formula is specific to the jig being used, this should have you pretty close, just dont use a dodgy tape measure!!
Hope this helps and makes sense


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## Jabr357

Thank you guys!. Those are great explanations. My posts are 9" outside to outside. Butch in his spreadsheet also deducts 9" for the 4 post layout (older jigs), so that appears to be the correct number for me.


----------



## Bigmf

Jabr357 said:


> Thank you guys!. Those are great explanations. My posts are 9" outside to outside. Butch in his spreadsheet also deducts 9" for the 4 post layout (older jigs), so that appears to be the correct number for me.


No problem


----------



## NC Archer

Lessons learned:

Grease the threads with Molybdenum Disulfide Grease to preserve the threads on the 5/8 bolts.

After approximately 6-7 times of applying 300 lbs of force, the threads started to lock up. The nut started hitting a rough spot, and on the next time bringing it up to 300 lbs the nut locked up. I couldn't loosen it or tighten it. I ended up putting it in a vise and heating it to get the nut off, and the threads were shot. I'm not sure if it was the nut or the bolt, but one lead to the destruction of the other. Once I got it apart I put a new nut on and kept it on the good part of the threads. I applied Molybdenum Disulfide grease on the threads and the nut was significantly smoother than new, at 300 lbs. The lack of grease destroyed the threads. Being a mechanic I knew I should grease the threads, just like on bearing installers and pullers, but I wanted to keep it clean and took my chances. IT FAILED!

Molybdenum Disulfide grease is for extreme pressure and will keep the threads from destroying themselves under high force applications.

Take it for what it's worth.


----------



## SamT

NC Archer said:


> Lessons learned:
> 
> Grease the threads with Molybdenum Disulfide Grease to preserve the threads on the 5/8 bolts.
> 
> After approximately 6-7 times of applying 300 lbs of force, the threads started to lock up. The nut started hitting a rough spot, and on the next time bringing it up to 300 lbs the nut locked up. I couldn't loosen it or tighten it. I ended up putting it in a vise and heating it to get the nut off, and the threads were shot. I'm not sure if it was the nut or the bolt, but one lead to the destruction of the other. Once I got it apart I put a new nut on and kept it on the good part of the threads. I applied Molybdenum Disulfide grease on the threads and the nut was significantly smoother than new, at 300 lbs. The lack of grease destroyed the threads. Being a mechanic I knew I should grease the threads, just like on bearing installers and pullers, but I wanted to keep it clean and took my chances. IT FAILED!
> 
> Molybdenum Disulfide grease is for extreme pressure and will keep the threads from destroying themselves under high force applications.
> 
> Take it for what it's worth.


I think this is why ACME threads (vs tapered threads) may be a better option.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## NC Archer

SamT said:


> I think this is why ACME threads (vs tapered threads) may be a better option.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


The zinc plating is very rough, and it wears off when it rubs together. There is zinc dust under the bolt where it was rubbing off. I suspect the zinc plating was the cause of the binding up.

I ordered some grade 8 threaded rod and nuts that is supposed to be 25% stronger than grade 5. I'll keep them greased and see how it holds up.


----------



## 138104

While I realize this is a DIY thread, Baker Archery Products sells parts for his jigs that could probably be used on the el-cheapo. Here’s a link:






Parts | BAP







www.bakerarcheryproducts.com


----------



## automan26

Actually, the simplest solution is to keep the threads well lubricated using synthetic motor oil. Synthetic oil has superior film strength. Film strength is the ability of a lubricant to remain in place under high loads. I've been using synthetic oil on my jigs for years and I've never experienced binding.

Automan


----------



## Jbierl

Okay guys I have run into an issue. When shipping my strings they are coiling. I have the end loops ziptied. What is everyone doing to keep their strings dead in the package?


----------



## 138104

Jbierl said:


> Okay guys I have run into an issue. When shipping my strings they are coiling. I have the end loops ziptied. What is everyone doing to keep their strings dead in the package?


Do you have a picture? Not sure I follow what is happening.


----------



## Jbierl




----------



## 138104

Jbierl said:


> View attachment 7562228


I’ve seen that happen as a string is relaxing off the stretcher, but not after serving. They do look fairly twisted up. What twist rate are you using? Also, did you add any twists after serving?


----------



## bfittock

Looks like you may be serving in the wrong direction which will cause this issue let your strings relax over night after stretching all so helps to rest them after serving all so hope this helps regards Brett BF custom bowstrings 😁👍🏻


----------



## Jbierl

bfittock said:


> Looks like you may be serving in the wrong direction which will cause this issue let your strings relax over night after stretching all so helps to rest them after serving all so hope this helps regards Brett BF custom bowstrings 😁👍🏻


That’s what I was thinking. I was doing them more as an assembly line, once it was served paper clip them right away. When I moved my bench inside, I added screws to put strings on while working on the next one. Those strings seem to have relaxed but not coiled up. I always twist and serve in the clockwise direction when looking from the left hand side.

This is the first set of strings I shipped. Usually I just install them on the bows as they are finished. Lesson learned.

Perry24, I am using a .69 twist rate. I only add twists before serving. However I don’t think I was letting them relax long enough after stretching and serving.


----------



## 138104

Jbierl said:


> That’s what I was thinking. I was doing them more as an assembly line, once it was served paper clip them right away. When I moved my bench inside, I added screws to put strings on while working on the next one. Those strings seem to have relaxed but not coiled up. I always twist and serve in the clockwise direction when looking from the left hand side.
> 
> This is the first set of strings I shipped. Usually I just install them on the bows as they are finished. Lesson learned.
> 
> Perry24, I am using a .69 twist rate. I only add twists before serving. However I don’t think I was letting them relax long enough after stretching and serving.


I like to let them sit overnight after stretching. I usually layup and stretch one evening and then serve the next evening. However, I’ve never had a string coil up like that after serving. If you haven’t already, watch this video to ensure you are putting the serving on correctly.


----------



## Jbierl

Perry24 said:


> I like to let them sit overnight after stretching. I usually layup and stretch one evening and then serve the next evening. However, I’ve never had a string coil up like that after serving. If you haven’t already, watch this video to ensure you are putting the serving on correctly.


Thank you. I will definitely watch the video. I am thinking the rest time is where I messed up.


----------



## 138104

Jbierl said:


> Thank you. I will definitely watch the video. I am thinking the rest time is where I messed up.


It’s possible, but the high volume builders likely aren’t resting their strings and I can’t say I’ve seen one twist up like that. Figuring stuff out like this is what makes string building frustrating and rewarding all at the same time!


----------



## Jbierl

Perry24 said:


> It’s possible, but the high volume builders likely aren’t resting their strings and I can’t say I’ve seen one twist up like that. Figuring stuff out like this is what makes string building frustrating and rewarding all at the same time!


I can see that becoming the truth. It’s very rewarding seeing strings like this though!


----------



## Jabr357

Jbierl said:


> I can see that becoming the truth. It’s very rewarding seeing strings like this though!


Let us know what caused that when you find out!


----------



## Jbierl

Well the strings I have made the last 3 days haven’t done it. I have both been very conscious of serving clockwise, which I thought I was before and relaxing the strings. I think it has to do more with the strings going from 300# to wrapped right away because now that I let them relaxI don’t see any issues. Before as soon as I finished serving I would zip tie the ends together.


----------



## Huntinsker

Jbierl said:


> Well the strings I have made the last 3 days haven’t done it. I have both been very conscious of serving clockwise, which I thought I was before and relaxing the strings. I think it has to do more with the strings going from 300# to wrapped right away because now that I let them relaxI don’t see any issues. Before as soon as I finished serving I would zip tie the ends together.


Yep. It happens when they go from being stretched at high tension to immediately coming off the stretcher and getting clipped together. If they're allowed to shrink back down they don't twist up on themselves.


----------



## Jbierl

Huntinsker said:


> Yep. It happens when they go from being stretched at high tension to immediately coming off the stretcher and getting clipped together. If they're allowed to shrink back down they don't twist up on themselves.


Yeah it’s a lesson learned.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

I'm wanting to venture into a 4 color string.....thinking 6-6-6-6......but I'm over thinking (is my guess) to how to properly separate the different colors for twisting? I figured for the tag ends I could just tie it off like a do a pinstripe (I tie my pinstripe color off at pinstripe post. once i get my first color around the layup post I do 3 wraps with the pin stripe...then tie it back off, and go back to my first color to finish the tag ends)

But again.....how do I separate everything to twist it up?


----------



## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I'm wanting to venture into a 4 color string.....thinking 6-6-6-6......but I'm over thinking (is my guess) to how to properly separate the different colors for twisting? I figured for the tag ends I could just tie it off like a do a pinstripe (I tie my pinstripe color off at pinstripe post. once i get my first color around the layup post I do 3 wraps with the pin stripe...then tie it back off, and go back to my first color to finish the tag ends)
> 
> But again.....how do I separate everything to twist it up?


I would think you would just separate the colors like you would for a 2 or 3 color string, but have never done a 4 color.


----------



## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I'm wanting to venture into a 4 color string.....thinking 6-6-6-6......but I'm over thinking (is my guess) to how to properly separate the different colors for twisting? I figured for the tag ends I could just tie it off like a do a pinstripe (I tie my pinstripe color off at pinstripe post. once i get my first color around the layup post I do 3 wraps with the pin stripe...then tie it back off, and go back to my first color to finish the tag ends)
> 
> But again.....how do I separate everything to twist it up?


I put golf tees in so there is one color on top, one on bottom and then pull one color to the right and one to the left. The ends close to the loops don't lay out perfectly because one half of the side bundles will have to "cross" to the other side but when under tension they don't actually do that. You will see that the colors aren't separated all the way into the loop if you do a clear serving though so if you want to see perfect separation and none of the "behind the scenes mess", go with a colored serving.


----------



## automan26

Find someone who has a 3D printer and have a set of these made. My son printed some of these for me to use for making a pinstripe, but it would work perfectly for a 4-color string.

Automan


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7564249
> 
> 
> Find someone who has a 3D printer and have a set of these made. My son printed some of these for me to use for making a pinstripe, but it would work perfectly for a 4-color string.
> 
> Automan


Good idea. I would have never thought of that 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## automan26

The specs can be whatever you want. On mine the bottoms of opposing throats are 1/2 inch apart. The OD is .850. The hole in the middle is useless space that didn't need to be printed.

Automan


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## pengebretson

There was recently a discussion (many over the course of this thread actually) about serving direction. Thanks to @automan26 for the clock tip. That made things a lot more clear for me. 

To help remind myself and make it a little more durable than my paper ones, I 3d printed these “clockwise” arrows for each of the posts on my stretcher. The clip into the existing holes. 

The silver ones on the bottom were my 1st attempt. 

Just sharing in case it helps someone else.



































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## automan26

Those are totally cool. Nice work.

Automan


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## Stouff_PAhunter

What is the benefit of either using 3D or 2X on strings....not cables.....I know it really comes down to finished size....but if I'm only going to use 24 strands of 452X what is my better choice? For cables I'm using Halo or .009 Powergrip (for the pesky cams)

Thanks.


----------



## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> What is the benefit of either using 3D or 2X on strings....not cables.....I know it really comes down to finished size....but if I'm only going to use 24 strands of 452X what is my better choice? For cables I'm using Halo or .009 Powergrip (for the pesky cams)
> 
> Thanks.


The only benefit is cost savings. I get halo so cheap from a seller on AT that it makes no sense for me to stock 3D just for strings.


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## 138104

I was working on a set last night for my son’s V3. When serving the first cable, I managed to cut a strand with my tape measure. Re-built that cable and started on the 2nd one while it was stretching. Halfway through the roller guard serving, the material snapped. Since I don’t have a serving machine, I had to unwind it by hand. Re-served the roller guard and decided to call it a night. I went down this morning to serve the 2nd cable and realized I used PG 009 instead of spectra 008 for the roller guard. Since it is my son’s bow, I might just leave it as-is and do the 2nd cable with spectra to see which holds up better.


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> I was working on a set last night for my son’s V3. When serving the first cable, I managed to cut a strand with my tape measure. Re-built that cable and started on the 2nd one while it was stretching. Halfway through the roller guard serving, the material snapped. Since I don’t have a serving machine, I had to unwind it by hand. Re-served the roller guard and decided to call it a night. I went down this morning to serve the 2nd cable and realized I used PG 009 instead of spectra 008 for the roller guard. Since it is my son’s bow, I might just leave it as-is and do the 2nd cable with spectra to see which holds up better.


Experimentation is one of the benefits of making your own string sets. It wasn't a mistake, it was science.


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## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> Experimentation is one of the benefits of making your own string sets. It wasn't a mistake, it was science.


I wish I would have looked at it that way! 

My post didn’t age well. Within 30 minutes, I was down there stripping off the PG and reserving with the spectra…lol!


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## lunghit

Perry24 said:


> I was working on a set last night for my son’s V3. When serving the first cable, I managed to cut a strand with my tape measure. Re-built that cable and started on the 2nd one while it was stretching. Halfway through the roller guard serving, the material snapped. Since I don’t have a serving machine, I had to unwind it by hand. Re-served the roller guard and decided to call it a night. I went down this morning to serve the 2nd cable and realized I used PG 009 instead of spectra 008 for the roller guard. Since it is my son’s bow, I might just leave it as-is and do the 2nd cable with spectra to see which holds up better.


A few weeks ago I had a pinstripe layed out and when I twisted it all up it looked really off. I was confused and stared at it for a minute and realized I forgot to add the golf tees. I attempted to remove all the twists and start over but it was too messed up and went into the trash lol.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

I've been building for roughly 3 years now and started out with Bloodline. Using the Bloodline99 for the strings and the VEC99 for the cables....I love the combo, but I'm really starting to like building with the 452X multi-colors as well. So as i was looking on Lancaster I saw they have 8125 in multi color as well....which can roughly give me the same combo as i was doing with Bloodline. I know the 8125 is on SK75 rather than the SK99.....and i know a lot of people go on about how much 8125 will creep.....what are the tricks to building with 8125?


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Perry24 said:


> The only benefit is cost savings. I get halo so cheap from a seller on AT that it makes no sense for me to stock 3D just for strings.



can you post or pm me who you buy your halo from?


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## skullerud

I've made strings for at lesat 10 years now, and almost exclusively using BCY 452x and BCY Trophy, and BCY #3D for ends and BCY 62xs for center serving.
One of my customers came quite excited and wondered if I could make him a glow in the dark stringset og something called Bloodline B99 Supreme.
never heard of it,but ready to try, so I was wondering if anyone here have tried it, what strand count I should use to replicate BCY 452x string 22strand string/ 24strand cables, and what serving?


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## Jabr357

Just want to revisit the 4 post length setting discussion briefly - hope you guys don't mind beating this dead horse one more time.

I did a simple experiment with my four post BAP jigs which are the original 9" apart from outside to outside post (without the math LOL), and this is what I did and found:

I laid out a non stretchy twine on my 4 post jig, intending it to be a certain finished length using the BAP calculation spreadsheet, using a 9" post setting variable. When I transferred the resulting string to a 2 post stretcher, I found it to be 1/4" inch short of the intended length. When I repeated this using an 8.75" post setting, the length came right on the money. So in conclusion, for a 9" outside end to outside end 4 post jig like mine, *you need to subtract 8.75" (not 9")* from the intended 2 post finished length or you will be 1/4 short when you move it to a 2 post stretcher.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

I need some help with my formula i think....
I am trying to get to a finished length of 39 1/8"
I am using the BAP spreadsheet and i am building on a 3 post.....so for my example my posts are 9 1/8" outside to outside. I am using a .75 twist variable and a 1.0075 length variable....The formula is telling me to set my posts at a distance of 34.8559375
I've been setting it at 34 13/16 (.812) My # of twists are between 29 & 30 so i have been going with 30 twists....

I've built this cable 3 times now and each time I end up at close to 40 1/8".

I'm using 452X (camo, yellow black, & tan) serving my end loops, and i give my jig about 100lbs of tension while i am serving my loops. I Can say that this batch of 452X i have for all 3 colors seems to have very little wax.


From what i described does anyone have any ideas for me to try? I know it can vary, but i have never seen myself be off by a whole inch like this?


----------



## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I need some help with my formula i think....
> I am trying to get to a finished length of 39 1/8"
> I am using the BAP spreadsheet and i am building on a 3 post.....so for my example my posts are 9 1/8" outside to outside. I am using a .75 twist variable and a 1.0075 length variable....The formula is telling me to set my posts at a distance of 34.8559375
> I've been setting it at 34 13/16 (.812) My # of twists are between 29 & 30 so i have been going with 30 twists....
> 
> I've built this cable 3 times now and each time I end up at close to 40 1/8".
> 
> I'm using 452X (camo, yellow black, & tan) serving my end loops, and i give my jig about 100lbs of tension while i am serving my loops. I Can say that this batch of 452X i have for all 3 colors seems to have very little wax.
> 
> 
> From what i described does anyone have any ideas for me to try? I know it can vary, but i have never seen myself be off by a whole inch like this?


BAP spreadsheet worked great for 2-post, but I didn’t have much luck using the 3 and 4-post settings. 

One thing to check is how much the length is increasing when you put it under tension. It’s possible that is throwing off your lengths if your string tags are slipping.


----------



## Stouff_PAhunter

Perry24 said:


> BAP spreadsheet worked great for 2-post, but I didn’t have much luck using the 3 and 4-post settings.
> 
> One thing to check is how much the length is increasing when you put it under tension. It’s possible that is throwing off your lengths if your string tags are slipping.


I bet you're right about the tags slipping.....I never thought of that...with the material having very little wax i do notice it not gripping the bolts i use as my tie-offs. I'm going to just clamp off on either end of my loop serving and see what happens


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## JohnLillywhite

Hey y’all.

I want to build my own string jig and start making my own strings and cables, but is it really worth making your own? I can understand the idea of wanting to be able to make your own color ways, cost saving, etc, but what are some of the cons to making your own strings?

I really wanna start doing it, but want to know what I’m getting into first.


----------



## fgignac

JohnLillywhite said:


> Hey y’all.
> 
> I want to build my own string jig and start making my own strings and cables, but is it really worth making your own? I can understand the idea of wanting to be able to make your own color ways, cost saving, etc, but what are some of the cons to making your own strings?
> 
> I really wanna start doing it, but want to know what I’m getting into first.


If saving money is your primary concern I wouldn't recommend it. 

Yes it is less expensive to build your own string, but you will have to build many many sets before you offset the investment in equipment and material.

Unless you plan to make strings for others and use that to offset the cost, the financial argument for getting into string building does not make a ton of sense. 

I think most people build strings because they enjoy the process and because it gives the opportunity to customize at will and tinker. 

It's much more of a hobby then a money saving strategy


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## automan26

Building strings gets into your blood. Once you start you can't stop. I have sets of strings hanging on my wall that have never shot one arrow. Sometimes I build a color combo that didn't pan out as expected. Sometimes I build a great set, but find something better so I scrap them for something else. 

If you build your own El-Cheap-O jig, you can do it for about $85. Add another $85 for tools and supplies and you're at $190. If you build 2 sets of strings you're at the break even point. Most guys find themselves quickly building for friends. Now, it's gravy time.

It is time consuming....But rewarding. If you decide to jump in and have questions, I will pledge to give you all the personal help you need to get you up and going.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

JohnLillywhite said:


> Hey y’all.
> 
> I want to build my own string jig and start making my own strings and cables, but is it really worth making your own? I can understand the idea of wanting to be able to make your own color ways, cost saving, etc, but what are some of the cons to making your own strings?
> 
> I really wanna start doing it, but want to know what I’m getting into first.


It's often a "labor of love". Materials aren't cheap and your time is worth something so there's that cost too. You can buy sets from good builders for under $100 but you'll spend a couple hundred just getting into building your own so unless you're going to be building a lot or you just want to learn a new skill, it's not really "worth it". If you like doing things on your own and taking pride in using something you've made, it's a great thing to do.


----------



## fgignac

Huntinsker said:


> It's often a "labor of love". Materials aren't cheap and your time is worth something so there's that cost too. You can buy sets from good builders for under $100 but you'll spend a couple hundred just getting into building your own so unless you're going to be building a lot or you just want to learn a new skill, it's not really "worth it". If you like doing things on your own and taking pride in using something you've made, it's a great thing to do.


This is what I was trying to say

@Huntinsker said it better 😛


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## JohnLillywhite

fgignac said:


> If saving money is your primary concern I wouldn't recommend it.
> 
> Yes it is less expensive to build your own string, but you will have to build many many sets before you offset the investment in equipment and material.
> 
> Unless you plan to make strings for others and use that to offset the cost, the financial argument for getting into string building does not make a ton of sense.
> 
> I think most people build strings because they enjoy the process and because it gives the opportunity to customize at will and tinker.
> 
> It's much more of a hobby then a money saving strategy


Thank you for the response. That’s the main reason I wanted to get into it; as a hobby. Looks like I’ll be looking for a DIY string jig.


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## JohnLillywhite

automan26 said:


> Building strings gets into your blood. Once you start you can't stop. I have sets of strings hanging on my wall that have never shot one arrow. Sometimes I build a color combo that didn't pan out as expected. Sometimes I build a great set, but find something better so I scrap them for something else.
> 
> If you build your own El-Cheap-O jig, you can do it for about $85. Add another $85 for tools and supplies and you're at $190. If you build 2 sets of strings you're at the break even point. Most guys find themselves quickly building for friends. Now, it's gravy time.
> 
> It is time consuming....But rewarding. If you decide to jump in and have questions, I will pledge to give you all the personal help you need to get you up and going.
> 
> Automan


Automan. Got any plans for a DIY jig? I’m gonna get into it.


----------



## automan26

Building a String Jig PART 6

If these links work they will take you through all the steps needed to build an El-Cheap-O.
If you have any questions, I'm always available to help out.

Automan


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## automan26

Here's #6 of 6


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## Jabr357

Hi Guys. I have a question that has been bugging me for a while regarding served end loops length. I did a search but could not find an answer.
Is there a formula that you use to figure out how long to serve end loops using a four post jig to end up with a certain size end loop? Also, how much end loop serving should be "overlapped" when end serving the string? For example, I tried using 2.25" for a finished 3/4" end loop but I found that there is too much end loop serving "overlap", causing a big bulge just before the loop and looking not safe on those tight bend cams like Hoyts. Thanks.


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## 138104

Finished loop size times 2 + 1/2”

So, for a 3/4” loop, it is 3/4*2=1 1/2+1/2”=2” of serving


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## rapids

Nice looking loop Perry. One question……I do the tag end serving method where I wrap one side 1” and the other 1 1/8” so they stagger when the ends meet as I am finishing the end serving and it lays down smoother. Do you do the same with a served loop, or do both loop end serving meet together? Hope this makes sense.


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## 138104

rapids said:


> Nice looking loop Perry. One question……I do the tag end serving method where I wrap one side 1” and the other 1 1/8” so they stagger when the ends meet as I am finishing the end serving and it lays down smoother. Do you do the same with a served loop, or do both loop end serving meet together? Hope this makes sense.


Yes, I stagger the serving ends before twisting.


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## Jabr357

Perry24 said:


> Finished loop size times 2 + 1/2”
> 
> So, for a 3/4” loop, it is 3/4*2=1 1/2+1/2”=2” of serving


Thanks Perry24! your formula is perfect!
I read somewhere else 2.25” was the standard for 3/4“ loops but that results in a lot of unnecessary overlap and an undesirable bulge, even if you stagger the serving.


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## nthn3875

Does anyone have any pictures of a Flo Purple and Electric Blue combo? Been thinking about this as a possible color combo for the next set of threads but was hoping to see it before I pull the trigger on buying materials.


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## Huntinsker

nthn3875 said:


> Does anyone have any pictures of a Flo Purple and Electric Blue combo? Been thinking about this as a possible color combo for the next set of threads but was hoping to see it before I pull the trigger on buying materials.


I've made that combo before but with a black pinstripe and it's pretty good looking if you want something bright. I don't have a picture but if you do a google image search for "flo purple and electric blue bow string" it comes up a couple times. 60x has it in their bowstring color gallery.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

How close in color is BCY Seafoam and Teal? 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## JohnLillywhite

So whenever I have my local pro shop restring my bow, or setup a new bow, I always deal with horrible peep rotation. It doesn’t matter if the bow strings have been broken in, or if it’s a brand new string, I am always having to mess with my peep before the shot, and it’s never lined up perfectly.

Is this a common thing with all bows or is my pro shop just doing something wrong?

With how they tied my peep in, there’s about 1/2in of separated string above and below the peep before it goes into the serving. I can pinch the separated string both above and below the peep together. I was under the impression you served as close as you could get to the peep to stop peep rotation?

If this doesn’t make sense, I can attach pics.


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## Huntinsker

JohnLillywhite said:


> So whenever I have my local pro shop restring my bow, or setup a new bow, I always deal with horrible peep rotation. It doesn’t matter if the bow strings have been broken in, or if it’s a brand new string, I am always having to mess with my peep before the shot, and it’s never lined up perfectly.
> 
> Is this a common thing with all bows or is my pro shop just doing something wrong?
> 
> With how they tied my peep in, there’s about 1/2in of separated string above and below the peep before it goes into the serving. I can pinch the separated string both above and below the peep together. I was under the impression you served as close as you could get to the peep to stop peep rotation?
> 
> If this doesn’t make sense, I can attach pics.


You only want to tie the peep serving where the string naturally comes back together at the point of the triangle. Any closer than that can cause peep rotation so definitely don't want to go closer to the peep. That's the most common way the installer causes peep rotation, that and not getting the peep in the exact middle of the string bundles but that's easy to do if the builder left a separator between them. 

The best way to ensure you don't get peep rotation is to get a good string. If you've had trouble with the ones they're installing, maybe look to a better builder for the next set. Lots of good ones on here that have good prices compared to what many shops sell.


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## rapids

Totally agree with Huntinsker. And if you are the adventurous type, learn how to build your own threads from the information in this thread. That’s what I did, and it’s one of the best things that I’ve ever done to help be self-sufficient with working on my own equipment.


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## EddyD

Thanks for putting into video format. Lots of details easily explained.


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## cruizerjoy

JohnLillywhite said:


> So whenever I have my local pro shop restring my bow, or setup a new bow, I always deal with horrible peep rotation. It doesn’t matter if the bow strings have been broken in, or if it’s a brand new string, I am always having to mess with my peep before the shot, and it’s never lined up perfectly.
> 
> Is this a common thing with all bows or is my pro shop just doing something wrong?
> 
> With how they tied my peep in, there’s about 1/2in of separated string above and below the peep before it goes into the serving. I can pinch the separated string both above and below the peep together. I was under the impression you served as close as you could get to the peep to stop peep rotation?
> 
> If this doesn’t make sense, I can attach pics.


I agree with everything Huntinskr said with one caveat. Some of the single cam bows have extremely long strings and can take a lot of shooting to settle them in. Its not uncommon to have to go back and put a twist or half twist in to re-align the peep. So It depends on the bow sometimes too.


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## cruizerjoy

Here is my latest. OD green and Rootbeer with a Buckskin pin. OD green power grip serv.


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## PowerLineman83

cruizerjoy said:


> Here is my latest. OD green and Rootbeer with a Buckskin pin. OD green power grip serv.
> View attachment 7596540


Looks good. I’ve got to ask though, what’s with the tag serving in the cable where it chokes the yoke spreader?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cruizerjoy

PowerLineman83 said:


> Looks good. I’ve got to ask though, what’s with the tag serving in the cable where it chokes the yoke spreader?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL. Experimental. I thought it would look better than unserved and be more flexible than thread served. Next ones I do will just be like factory and unserved. Just to add its my own bow so I am going to shoot it as is for now. If I would have done a set for someone else I would have trashed them. But for me I will use em for now. I dont have a good pic but I didnt use factory speed nock weight either on the string. The bow shoots great and like any Mathews it is as quiet as the Zebras were and no more peep rotation.


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## PowerLineman83

cruizerjoy said:


> LOL. Experimental. I thought it would look better than unserved and be more flexible than thread served. Next ones I do will just be like factory and unserved. Just to add its my own bow so I am going to shoot it as is for now. If I would have done a set for someone else I would have trashed them. But for me I will use em for now. I dont have a good pic but I didnt use factory speed nock weight either on the string. The bow shoots great and like any Mathews it is as quiet as the Zebras were and no more peep rotation.


Nice! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stouff_PAhunter

My father in law asked me to build a new set for his Z7 and when I built it to the specs I was given here at AT the DL is 3/4" long. 
String 86 7/8"
Buss 32 1/2"

Should I shorten my build calculations to be 3/4" short? I feel to get that much out I'm going to have to add way to many twists 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> My father in law asked me to build a new set for his Z7 and when I built it to the specs I was given here at AT the DL is 3/4" long.
> String 86 7/8"
> Buss 32 1/2"
> 
> Should I shorten my build calculations to be 3/4" short? I feel to get that much out I'm going to have to add way to many twists
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


I would tune the bow and pull the strings and take measurements. No reason to rely on factory specs when you have the bow in hand.


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## PowerLineman83

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> My father in law asked me to build a new set for his Z7 and when I built it to the specs I was given here at AT the DL is 3/4" long.
> String 86 7/8"
> Buss 32 1/2"
> 
> Should I shorten my build calculations to be 3/4" short? I feel to get that much out I'm going to have to add way to many twists
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


If it measures 3/4” long on a draw board you’re likely in the ballpark. They generally run 1/2” long
in my experience. How are
The other specs? Is it making proper draw weight? Maybe include some pictures….

Mathew’s is notoriously off on lengths.
As Perry said, take a tuned bow, remove strings and measure from them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Huntinsker

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> My father in law asked me to build a new set for his Z7 and when I built it to the specs I was given here at AT the DL is 3/4" long.
> String 86 7/8"
> Buss 32 1/2"
> 
> Should I shorten my build calculations to be 3/4" short? I feel to get that much out I'm going to have to add way to many twists
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


My buddie's z7 was drawing 1/2" long and was light by 5lbs on draw weight when i put the set to Mathew's advertised specs. I twisted them to get timing correct, to hit max weight and DL in a better range and ended up with 71lbs, 29 3/8" DL and the ATA and braceheight were spot on. Custom lengths ended up being 86 5/16" and 31 31/32".


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## Razorbak

I was wondering how you guys get the end loops to lay flat when you string it up instead of twisted up look. I stagger my ends before I serve but I sometimes get a twisted cabling look. I even try to use pliers to try to smooth it out and it works sometimes


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## Huntinsker

Razorbak said:


> I was wondering how you guys get the end loops to lay flat when you string it up instead of twisted up look. I stagger my ends before I serve but I sometimes get a twisted cabling look. I even try to use pliers to try to smooth it out and it works sometimes


Might have to show a picture of what you're talking about.


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## Razorbak

Will do soon as I get home I have been thinking maybe I’m serving it a little to tight


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## 138104

Razorbak said:


> I was wondering how you guys get the end loops to lay flat when you string it up instead of twisted up look. I stagger my ends before I serve but I sometimes get a twisted cabling look. I even try to use pliers to try to smooth it out and it works sometimes


Is it like this? Under tension, they are flat.


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## Razorbak

Yes and no. Strung around the limb (recurve/longbow) they look like first pic and when I finish making them before they go on the limb they look like second pic


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## Huntinsker

Razorbak said:


> Yes and no. Strung around the limb (recurve/longbow) they look like first pic and when I finish making them before they go on the limb they look like second pic


Oh if you're serving the loops, it's just the tight serving doing it. Not the end serving, the loop serving. Not a problem generally, especially for recurve where there's no peep sight. Might also be serving them the "wrong way" but that's a compound only issue also. Recurve strings are often times served opposite as compounds would be. Old recurve string builders used to think you had to serve the center serving one way or the other based on the hand of the shooter so the serving didn't loosen, even though one end would be tightening and the other loosening no matter which hand you were.


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## Razorbak




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## Razorbak

Not sure if you can see it but as the bow is strung on this longbow the end looks like this.


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## rapids

Not sure if this would help, but are you backing off on the string tension as you get near the end of serving? I always do my end serving towards the loop and as I get near the end, I reduce my string/cable tension from 300# to around 50# so the loop end closes easier. This way the main body of the bundles have less pressure an come together a lot better.


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## Razorbak

I have been wondering about this I have the same tension on my jig and spool. I’m gonna make another string this week and back off tension on both some. I use to serve then turn my jig and wrap loops that way. But lately I serve then tie off and wrap coming up towards the loop and finish them off


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## Jbierl

I am having some serving separating on a set of strings that I built. The serving was served under 300# of tension, in the correct clockwise direction, and under 6.5# of tension. Has anyone successfully served these tight corners in the bowtechs without separation?


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## 138104

What string material, how many strands, and what serving material?


----------



## Huntinsker

Jbierl said:


> I am having some serving separating on a set of strings that I built. The serving was served under 300# of tension, in the correct clockwise direction, and under 6.5# of tension. Has anyone successfully served these tight corners in the bowtechs without separation?
> View attachment 7602329


It's a constant problem with tight bends. The reality is that tight bends create a tighter and wider radius at the same time. The inside of the bend will be tighter and the outside will be wider. Because of that you have some give and take with most of the give being on the outside of the bend. Smaller diameter serving like .009 Powergrip might help since it'll stack together more tightly.


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## Jbierl

Perry24 said:


> What string material, how many strands, and what serving material?


452x 22 strands and 3d serving


----------



## Jbierl

Huntinsker said:


> It's a constant problem with tight bends. The reality is that tight bends create a tighter and wider radius at the same time. The inside of the bend will be tighter and the outside will be wider. Because of that you have some give and take with most of the give being on the outside of the bend. Smaller diameter serving like .009 Powergrip might help since it'll stack together more tightly.


I may try this. It would take a lot of that spool of serving.


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## 138104

Jbierl said:


> 452x 22 strands and 3d serving


3D is fine for strings, but not cables on today’s cams. You could use either .014 Halo or .014 PowerGrip on 22 strands. If you have it, .009 PowerGrip works great on those cams, but your bundle will be a bit smaller.


----------



## Jbierl

Perry24 said:


> 3D is fine for strings, but not cables on today’s cams. You could use either .014 Halo or .014 PowerGrip on 22 strands. If you have it, .009 PowerGrip works great on those cams, but your bundle will be a bit smaller.


That is great information. I would have not figured serving would make that big of a difference. Now I know I have to spend twice as much on serving


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## 138104

Jbierl said:


> That is great information. I would have not figured serving would make that big of a difference. Now I know I have to spend twice as much on serving


Order Halo from Axo24 on here. His prices can’t be beat!

[$24 USD] BCY Halo .014
BCY Halo .014

One other thing. I’d try to get your tension up to at least 350# and then serve your cables using at least 12# of static tension on your serving jig. This along with better serving should help with your separation.


----------



## fgignac

Hi folks. I have a couple of question about making strings for recurves.

I'm a beginner string builder, @automan26 was generous enough to send me a string jig in one of his giveaways

I would like to offer to build some strings for my club's loaner recurves. This would both help them out and give me some good practice. My questions are these:

Since I am using a 2 post jig, I have been doing tag end loops. Can this work for recurves as well? I feel like a recurve probably has more wear on the end loops and served loops might be necessary.

What material would you recommend for these strings? These are basic Olympic recurves that are loaned out to people getting started out so they can try archery before investing in their own equipment. So I don't need something super high performance. But these rigs also don't get the love and attention they deserve, so something durable would be a plus.


----------



## rapids

Even though I do not shoot an Olympic recurve, I have heard that many use BCY 8125. Myself, I have used BCY 8190 on most of my modern recurves, but I make them as a Flemish Twist, not as an endless loop.


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## CKCECB

Yes, you can tag end serve the end loops, I've done it and it works, but I don't think they hold up as well if you unstring after each session. B55 is a safe bet but don't try to tension it like low stretch material because it stretches so much (can't even tension it to 100# for measuring). I've used X99 as a fast flight string but didn't like it and for now I use 18 strands of 652, end loop served with 3D, and center served with Halo.

I have one of Automan's jigs, too, but augmented it with a set of home built 4-post arms for recurve strings. I use the 4-post for string layup and end loop serving, and then transfer it to the El Cheapo jig for stretching, twisting, and center serving. Best of both worlds.


----------



## fgignac

CKCECB said:


> Yes, you can tag end serve the end loops, I've done it and it works, but I don't think they hold up as well if you unstring after each session. B55 is a safe bet but don't try to tension it like low stretch material because it stretches so much (can't even tension it to 100# for measuring). I've used X99 as a fast flight string but didn't like it and for now I use 18 strands of 652, end loop served with 3D, and center served with Halo.
> 
> I have one of Automan's jigs, too, but augmented it with a set of home built 4-post arms for recurve strings. I use the 4-post for string layup and end loop serving, and then transfer it to the El Cheapo jig for stretching, twisting, and center serving. Best of both worlds.


Thanks for the input. Like I said, these bows are loaned to kids and beginners who don't always look after them as well as they should so I'm guessing served end loops are better. 

So I guess I'm going to need at least a 3 post setup to be able to do that


----------



## CKCECB

I made two of these for recurve strings. The posts are just 3/8" x 8" bolts (black stuff is shrink wrap to save my knuckles when using the serving jig) and I used 8" centers for the post spacing. I used strut because I was playing around with spacing and I go way overboard on stuff. If I were to do it again I'd just use scrap lumber. They don't need to be stout because I don't stretch with these. You could get away with one of these for a 3-post setup for layout. But like I wrote before, transfer the string to the El Cheapo for tensioning/stretching.

You should also try a couple of Flemish twist strings. You can build a jig in an afternoon for a few bucks (free if you already have scrap lumber), although you don't need one.


----------



## fgignac

CKCECB said:


> View attachment 7603138
> 
> 
> I made two of these for recurve strings. The posts are just 3/8" x 8" bolts (black stuff is shrink wrap to save my knuckles when using the serving jig) and I used 8" centers for the post spacing. I used strut because I was playing around with spacing and I go way overboard on stuff. If I were to do it again I'd just use scrap lumber. They don't need to be stout because I don't stretch with these. You could get away with one of these for a 3-post setup for layout. But like I wrote before, transfer the string to the El Cheapo for tensioning/stretching.
> 
> You should also try a couple of Flemish twist strings. You can build a jig in an afternoon for a few bucks (free if you already have scrap lumber), although you don't need one.


thanks for that!

Seems easy enough.

I have made flemish strings in the past for trad bows so I'm familiar with that.

When you use 652 how much tension do you use for pre-stretching?


----------



## CKCECB

The 652 I take to 300# for stretch and center serve.

Let me add/clarify that I serve and close the end loops on the 4-post jig under minimal tension. Once you lay down all that serving it locks the bundle down and doesn't move much (if at all) when stretching on El Cheapo.


----------



## fgignac

CKCECB said:


> The 652 I take to 300# for stretch and center serve.
> 
> Let me add/clarify that I serve and close the end loops on the 4-post jig under minimal tension. Once you lay down all that serving it locks the bundle down and doesn't move much (if at all) when stretching on El Cheapo.


Makes sense

How do you calculate the string lenght? Is it the same formula as compound, leaving an allowance for twisting?


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## Huntinsker

Jbierl said:


> 452x 22 strands and 3d serving


Delete post. Info already was given.


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> Thanks for the input. Like I said, these bows are loaned to kids and beginners who don't always look after them as well as they should so I'm guessing served end loops are better.
> 
> So I guess I'm going to need at least a 3 post setup to be able to do that


D97 would be your best bet. It's actually a good material for recurves anyway but it's cheap and doesn't take as many strands. It was the standard for recurve strings until 8125 came out. Still a good option though.

I was talking to someone on here one time that was doing tag end loops on his recurves and said it worked out pretty well. Not as durable as serving but for him it was lasting long enough to make it worth it. Only way to know how it'd do for your loaner strings would be to borrow one and put it through the paces. If the limbs and limb tips are smooth there shouldn't be much trouble.


----------



## fgignac

Huntinsker said:


> D97 would be your best bet. It's actually a good material for recurves anyway but it's cheap and doesn't take as many strands. It was the standard for recurve strings until 8125 came out. Still a good option though.
> 
> I was talking to someone on here one time that was doing tag end loops on his recurves and said it worked out pretty well. Not as durable as serving but for him it was lasting long enough to make it worth it. Only way to know how it'd do for your loaner strings would be to borrow one and put it through the paces. If the limbs and limb tips are smooth there shouldn't be much trouble.


I appreciate the advice

Any reason you recommend the D97 over the 652? I was checking the price on Lancaster and the 652 is actually less expensive than D97. Is there some advantage to it having bigger strands?


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> I appreciate the advice
> 
> Any reason you recommend the D97 over the 652? I was checking the price on Lancaster and the 652 is actually less expensive than D97. Is there some advantage to it having bigger strands?


I've never used 652 but I'd imagine it'd be a good option as well. D97 probably would be a little more stable over time but for loaner bows that's not really all that important. Larger diameter would only save on some layout time and potentially help if you're going to try tag end loops.


----------



## CKCECB

fgignac said:


> How do you calculate the string lenght? Is it the same formula as compound, leaving an allowance for twisting?


I played around with the twist rate formula to reduce the number of twists. I found that too many twist didn't feel good on my fingers. And despite using the formulas my strings still end up a little shorter, probably because I'm introducing twists (thus shortening) when doing the end loop serving. So it's taking me less twists than calculated to hit the target length. This is one of the things you'll need to play around with. I like maybe 20 twists total to start, because I end up adding some to adjust the target brace height during tuning.



Huntinsker said:


> I've never used 652 but I'd imagine it'd be a good option as well. D97 probably would be a little more stable over time but for loaner bows that's not really all that important. Larger diameter would only save on some layout time and potentially help if you're going to try tag end loops.


I haven't tried D97, but was considering it yet opted for the 652 because was $7-$8/spool cheaper (got it at Eders), and I read that the Korean National Team still prefers 652 because of the feel (softer on the shot). For lower poundage youth/beginner bows it may not make a difference. When I experimented with the X99 (what I have on hand for compounds), it was not a comfortable experience, even when I padded the loops, so that swayed me on something softer with some give (but not so much give as dacron).

But don't discount Dacron to try out, it's stupid cheap and it works, too, and it feels nice on the fingers. That's what I'm liking about recurves, I can swap out a string in less than a minute for different arrows.


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## Stouff_PAhunter

I’m thinking I already know the answer to this, but is there actually a full color chart out there for all the colors BCY offers? There are colors out there I have seen that aren’t in the website color chart 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 138104

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I’m thinking I already know the answer to this, but is there actually a full color chart out there for all the colors BCY offers? There are colors out there I have seen that aren’t in the website color chart
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If there is, I’ve never seen it.


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## PowerLineman83

Stouff_PAhunter said:


> I’m thinking I already know the answer to this, but is there actually a full color chart out there for all the colors BCY offers? There are colors out there I have seen that aren’t in the website color chart
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No. The colors you speak of are mostly custom colors for string builders only. Unless you have the proper credentials for an archery business, you can’t buy directly from them…

You’re left with whatever you can find for sale from a retailer or the secondary market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fgignac

Hi all!

I'm just getting into the string building game. I have decided to read this thread from start to finish (I'm almost up to post 2000) 🤣

At that time (2015) lots of people were experimenting with braided fishing line for end serving. I'm wondering how that worked out for people. Anyone still using it?

String building materials are tough to source in Canada and it gets pretty expensive to order from the US so I'm looking for any alternatives I can find.

Also, if anyone knows of a good source for ordering string building materials in Canada, I would love to hear about it.

I'm going to be making my first strings over the weekend. I'll post up some pictures of how it goes


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## CKCECB

Dewboy did a lot of work on fishing line posted down in the arrows and strings forumWhat Braided fishing line have you found to be most like...


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## fgignac

CKCECB said:


> Dewboy did a lot of work on fishing line posted down in the arrows and strings forumWhat Braided fishing line have you found to be most like...


Wow that's great information. Big thanks to @Dewboy for putting that out there!


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## fgignac

Anyone know where I can get empty spools the proper size for a serving jig? I'm going to try spectra fishing line for some of my servings, but do to that I need spools to load it on. There are no archery shops in my area where I could go ask for empties. 

I have been searching on Ebay, but I haven't found anything with the right dimensions


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## 138104

fgignac said:


> Anyone know where I can get empty spools the proper size for a serving jig? I'm going to try spectra fishing line for some of my servings, but do to that I need spools to load it on. There are no archery shops in my area where I could go ask for empties.
> 
> I have been searching on Ebay, but I haven't found anything with the right dimensions


60X used to sell bulk packs of spools. I would check with them.


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## fgignac

Perry24 said:


> 60X used to sell bulk packs of spools. I would check with them.


Man, I wish I had thought to ask before I placed my order last week...

Shipping to Canada is a bitch, not worth it to order just spools from them. But I will keep it in mind for next time I order there if I haven't found anything else


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## William.Gib

minndroptine said:


> *Thx Again*
> 
> The knowledge that I have gotten from this sight. Is amazing just want to say thanks again. Here's my two post/stretch and twist jig.
> View attachment 1793561
> View attachment 1793562


 That's a really nice jig but if I was you I would use acme thread So much better than a Dang gone piece of thread rod 3 rods 2 flexible acme rod is like 150000 tensile strength


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## William.Gib

Huntinsker said:


> How many twists you put in is dependent on what your measurement was before you separated the color bundles and measured at 100lbs. The length of your yoke legs will be a factor in how many you need and the initial twist rate of the cable will also be a variable. Generally I just put in equal numbers on each one until the length at 100lbs is again equal to what it was before I separated the individual yoke legs.
> 
> You would twist them the same way you twist the string. For me and my method, that is clockwise. If you stood above the jig on the non-sprung end, where I twist from, and looked toward the other end, you'd twist in a clockwise direction from that point of view.


 Dependent on which way you're looking at the string or or if you just grab ahold of it and start turning it clockwise you have to be looking straight down the string at the other end then turn It clockwise That will make it so much easier if you look at the very end of the string facing down


----------



## highwaynorth

Jbierl said:


> I am having some serving separating on a set of strings that I built. The serving was served under 300# of tension, in the correct clockwise direction, and under 6.5# of tension. Has anyone successfully served these tight corners in the bowtechs without separation?
> View attachment 7602329


I don't have any problems with separation on my Bowtechs. I use .015" Angel majesty or
Bloodlines new .014" Boa on 22 strands of 452X. I serv under around 325lbs of tension
and around 4lbs or so on the jig. I found I don't have to serve stupid tight to prevent separation.


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## thwackaddict

Hello everyone. Getting ready to build a set for my sons Vertix. Just wondered if you just use brass nocks and shrink tubing.
What size of each?
I will be running 8190F with 32 strands and 3D serving.

Also gonna build a set for my Hoyt Katera. Might try speed nocks on it too. Just looking for most recent info on what you are using.

Thanks a bunch!


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## fgignac

Question for you fine folks

On my bow, the serving on the string extends past the cam, down the string, almost 6 inches. When I make my strings, can I cut back on this? 

The way I see it, unless I'm planning to add speed nocks, this extra serving doesn't really serve any purpose. 

How far past the cam does the serving actually need to extend?


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## 138104

I’ve never cut back on string serving because I use speed nocks, but roller guards and cable serving I’ve cut back without issue. Heck, on my V3X 29, I removed almost 7” from the roller guard serving on EACH cable!


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## fgignac

Perry24 said:


> I’ve never cut back on string serving because I use speed nocks, but roller guards and cable serving I’ve cut back without issue. Heck, on my V3X 29, I removed almost 7” from the roller guard serving on EACH cable!


If I'm not using speed nocks, would it be correct to assume that cutting back on the string serving is as safe as cutting back on the cable serving?


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## PowerLineman83

fgignac said:


> If I'm not using speed nocks, would it be correct to assume that cutting back on the string serving is as safe as cutting back on the cable serving?


Yes, as long as the serving extends just past the cam grooves.

Some cable servings may seem excessive at shorter draw lengths. If you do away with servings on cables, it should be done carefully. Not a big deal to do it at all, it just needs to make sense. As Perry said, Mathew’s is terrible with pointless serving.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CKCECB

It may also depend on whether or not you have rotating draw length modules and want to maintain the adjustability.


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## fgignac

PowerLineman83 said:


> Yes, as long as the serving extends just past the cam grooves.
> 
> Some cable servings may seem excessive at shorter draw lengths. If you do away with servings on cables, it should be done carefully. Not a big deal to do it at all, it just needs to make sense. As Perry said, Mathew’s is terrible with pointless serving.





CKCECB said:


> It may also depend on whether or not you have rotating draw length modules and want to maintain the adjustability.


Thanks for the replies. God point about the DL adjustment. I'll keep that in mind


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## 138104

fgignac said:


> If I'm not using speed nocks, would it be correct to assume that cutting back on the string serving is as safe as cutting back on the cable serving?


Yes. The serving is there to protect the string material in high wear areas, such as cam tracks.

The easiest way to figure out how much serving you can remove is to put the bow on the drawboard and use a sharpie. I mark at brace and at full draw, double check, and then take measurements on my string jig. I only do this for my personal bows, so not too worried about different draw lengths.


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## fgignac

Perry24 said:


> Yes. The serving is there to protect the string material in high wear areas, such as cam tracks.
> 
> The easiest way to figure out how much serving you can remove is to put the bow on the drawboard and use a sharpie. I mark at brace and at full draw, double check, and then take measurements on my string jig. I only do this for my personal bows, so not too worried about different draw lengths.


Thanks


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## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> Thanks for the replies. God point about the DL adjustment. I'll keep that in mind


That only matters for the cable ends. The string end never goes farther around the cam than it is at brace so if you have a bunch of extra serving there, you can reduce it no problem. I always do that on my bows and leave about 1-1.5" beyond the cam so it has enough there to not separate from the pressure of the cam. Also have to be aware that the string travels forwards on the shot, past brace, and there needs to be a little protection beyond the cam string groove in case it contacts the cam going forwards.


----------



## Huntinsker

thwackaddict said:


> Hello everyone. Getting ready to build a set for my sons Vertix. Just wondered if you just use brass nocks and shrink tubing.
> What size of each?
> I will be running 8190F with 32 strands and 3D serving.
> 
> Also gonna build a set for my Hoyt Katera. Might try speed nocks on it too. Just looking for most recent info on what you are using.
> 
> Thanks a bunch!


I use Saunders red nocks and 1/4" 3:1 shrink wrap. I use adhesive lined but that really doesn't matter. 

I built a set for a buddy's Katera years ago and left the nocks off so we could chrono it without and then with. If memory serves, we got 7fps more with the nocks in the factory locations than without them.


----------



## fgignac

Huntinsker said:


> That only matters for the cable ends. The string end never goes farther around the cam than it is at brace so if you have a bunch of extra serving there, you can reduce it no problem. I always do that on my bows and leave about 1-1.5" beyond the cam so it has enough there to not separate from the pressure of the cam. Also have to be aware that the string travels forwards on the shot, past brace, and there needs to be a little protection beyond the cam string groove in case it contacts the cam going forwards.


That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for confirming my hunch


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## thwackaddict

Huntinsker said:


> I use Saunders red nocks and 1/4" 3:1 shrink wrap. I use adhesive lined but that really doesn't matter.
> 
> I built a set for a buddy's Katera years ago and left the nocks off so we could chrono it without and then with. If memory serves, we got 7fps more with the nocks in the factory locations than without them.


Thanks for the help. My Katera had no speed nocks factory. I just figured I would go 4 on top and 4 on bottom. About 2” from where string contacts. That sound like a good plan?


----------



## Huntinsker

thwackaddict said:


> Thanks for the help. My Katera had no speed nocks factory. I just figured I would go 4 on top and 4 on bottom. About 2” from where string contacts. That sound like a good plan?


I'm sorry. I was thinking of the Katana. Best thing to do with a bow that didn't have them from the factory is to just experiment with a chrono and move them little by little trying to find the sweet spot.


----------



## fgignac

Yesterday I made my first attempt at a pinstripe.... it did not go well. Here's what it looked like. Electric Blue with a Flo Green pin. Looks pretty rough because it wasn't burnished yet. But the point is the pins were terrible.









After some coaching by @automan26 here's what I made tonight Elec. Blue and Flo Green with Black pin









This is my first "real" set of threads (I have done several short test strings and the 30,60,90 to get my formula down). I'll post pictures of the complete set once I am done. But I was just really happy with the results I got tonight so I wanted to share with all you who contribute to this thread.


----------



## 138104

fgignac said:


> Yesterday I made my first attempt at a pinstripe.... it did not go well. Here's what it looked like. Electric Blue with a Flo Green pin. Looks pretty rough because it wasn't burnished yet. But the point is the pins were terrible.
> 
> View attachment 7620864
> 
> 
> After some coaching by @automan26 here's what I made tonight Elec. Blue and Flo Green with Black pin
> 
> View attachment 7620867
> 
> 
> This is my first "real" set of threads (I have done several short test strings and the 30,60,90 to get my formula down). I'll post pictures of the complete set once I am done. But I was just really happy with the results I got tonight so I wanted to share with all you who contribute to this thread.


Looks great!


----------



## rapids

Looks nice. Even the first one‘s not too bad…….did you happen to chase the pin stripes?


----------



## fgignac

rapids said:


> Looks nice. Even the first one‘s not too bad…….did you happen to chase the pin stripes?


Yeah but that was as good as I was able to get it. They were stuck in the middle, when I would pull them out they would get sucked right back in.

@automan26 recommended I put a little more tension on the string while twisting, and chase with a bigger piece of material (I used powergrip 0.018). Worked like a charm. Most of the pin was fine without chasing, and the rest popped right out when I chased with the larger thread.

I'm kind of sad now because most of it is covered in serving


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## fgignac

It took 2 weeks, but I have just finished reading all 8546 posts of this thread. 

Do I get a t-shirt or something? 😂

I have many many screenshots and bookmarks to back and reference. Thanks to all who have contributed to this deep well of string building knowledge!


----------



## Gene1

fgignac said:


> It took 2 weeks, but I have just finished reading all 8546 posts of this thread.
> 
> Do I get a t-shirt or something? 😂
> 
> I have many many screenshots and bookmarks to back and reference. Thanks to all who have contributed to this deep well of string building knowledge!


You’ll get a nice set of strings is your reward.


----------



## Gene1

fgignac said:


> Yesterday I made my first attempt at a pinstripe.... it did not go well. Here's what it looked like. Electric Blue with a Flo Green pin. Looks pretty rough because it wasn't burnished yet. But the point is the pins were terrible.
> 
> View attachment 7620864
> 
> 
> After some coaching by @automan26 here's what I made tonight Elec. Blue and Flo Green with Black pin
> 
> View attachment 7620867
> 
> 
> This is my first "real" set of threads (I have done several short test strings and the 30,60,90 to get my formula down). I'll post pictures of the complete set once I am done. But I was just really happy with the results I got tonight so I wanted to share with all you who contribute to this thread.


Looking real nice!


----------



## fgignac

Gene1 said:


> You’ll get a nice set of strings is your reward.


Great point 😂




Gene1 said:


> Looking real nice!


Thanks 👍


----------



## deerbum

Looks good! It's been a few years since I made and installed a set, just finished one yesterday. Needed one twist on a cable to synch the cams and its ready to yoke tune.
I'm hoping this set is as stable as the last one, 4 years after installation the peep was still perfectly square. The 4 strand 40# spectra held up fine- string ends, string stop, roller servings, and yokes. The power grip cable ends and center serving were still good as well.


----------



## fgignac

Just made a pair of cables for a 2 cam bow. On one of them, the yokes legs want to twist together.

I made both cables the same day using the same process (the in @automan26 powerpoint). But on one cable the yoke legs are twisted, even once installed on the bow, and on the other they are fine.

What is the most likely reason for this"


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> Just made a pair of cables for a 2 cam bow. On one of them, the yokes legs want to twist together.
> 
> I made both cables the same day using the same process (the in @automan26 powerpoint). But on one cable the yoke legs are twisted, even once installed on the bow, and on the other they are fine.
> 
> What is the most likely reason for this"


Because you've twisted one of the yoke legs the opposite direction when installing them on the bow. That makes them "cable" up on one another.


----------



## fgignac

Huntinsker said:


> Because you've twisted one of the yoke legs the opposite direction when installing them on the bow. That makes them "cable" up on one another.


I thought about that, I've made Flemish strings before so I understand how that works and it's the first thing I checked. 

But I'll check again when I get home just to be 150% sure. 

I twisted all the yokes clockwise (same direction as the string), is this correct? I was thinking it might be better to twist the counterclock so that they "fight" the twist in the string. But I twisted them clockwise on the first cable and it was fine.


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> I thought about that, I've made Flemish strings before so I understand how that works and it's the first thing I checked.
> 
> But I'll check again when I get home just to be 150% sure.
> 
> I twisted all the yokes clockwise (same direction as the string), is this correct? I was thinking it might be better to twist the counterclock so that they "fight" the twist in the string. But I twisted them clockwise on the first cable and it was fine.


Has to be the same twist direction throughout the cable.


----------



## 138104

fgignac said:


> I thought about that, I've made Flemish strings before so I understand how that works and it's the first thing I checked.
> 
> But I'll check again when I get home just to be 150% sure.
> 
> I twisted all the yokes clockwise (same direction as the string), is this correct? I was thinking it might be better to twist the counterclock so that they "fight" the twist in the string. But I twisted them clockwise on the first cable and it was fine.


Did you add a twist to the cable where it hooks to the cam? If so, that would cause a twist to the yoke legs. You then just untwist the legs and reattach.


----------



## fgignac

Perry24 said:


> Did you add a twist to the cable where it hooks to the cam? If so, that would cause a twist to the yoke legs. You then just untwist the legs and reattach.


Nope, happened while it was still on the jig. Served the cables sunday, let them rest until monday, Untwisted the yoke legs from each other and twisted them back up individually. When I put it back on the post, the yokes twisted up. I figured they would untwist once I put it under tension for final measurement. But no luck. They stay twisted.


----------



## The Infidel

fgignac said:


> Just made a pair of cables for a 2 cam bow. On one of them, the yokes legs want to twist together.
> 
> I made both cables the same day using the same process (the in @automan26 powerpoint). But on one cable the yoke legs are twisted, even once installed on the bow, and on the other they are fine.
> 
> What is the most likely reason for this"


Do you have a few pictures?

I have no idea what I'm doing........ ever


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> Nope, happened while it was still on the jig. Served the cables sunday, let them rest until monday, Untwisted the yoke legs from each other and twisted them back up individually. When I put it back on the post, the yokes twisted up. I figured they would untwist once I put it under tension for final measurement. But no luck. They stay twisted.


Ahh that's different. Might have served a section backwards. If the yoke legs are twisted the same direction as the main body of the cable, it'd about have to be that one section of the serving is reversed.


----------



## William.Gib

So I'm having trouble with peep twist not much but a little and when pressing bow the dloop rolls over a little have the best stuff for a building great and strong material serving and jigs can I add pics with phone


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## William.Gib

highwaynorth said:


> I don't have any problems with separation on my Bowtechs. I use .015" Angel majesty or
> Bloodlines new .014" Boa on 22 strands of 452X. I serv under around 325lbs of tension
> and around 4lbs or so on the jig. I found I don't have to serve stupid tight to prevent separation.


Power grip


----------



## William.Gib

Jbierl said:


> I am having some serving separating on a set of strings that I built. The serving was served under 300# of tension, in the correct clockwise direction, and under 6.5# of tension. Has anyone successfully served these tight corners in the bowtechs without separation?
> View attachment 7602329


Power grip mine look gears


----------



## 138104

William.Gib said:


> So I'm having trouble with peep twist not much but a little and when pressing bow the dloop rolls over a little have the best stuff for a building great and strong material serving and jigs can I add pics with phone


The best thing to do is to deconstruct the string while checking each step to see if the peep is moving.


----------



## William.Gib

Perry24 said:


> The best thing to do is to deconstruct the string while checking each step to see if the peep is moving.


Thank you thats what butch told me also


----------



## William.Gib

Jabr357 said:


> Just want to revisit the 4 post length setting discussion briefly - hope you guys don't mind beating this dead horse one more time.
> 
> I did a simple experiment with my four post BAP jigs which are the original 9" apart from outside to outside post (without the math LOL), and this is what I did and found:
> 
> I laid out a non stretchy twine on my 4 post jig, intending it to be a certain finished length using the BAP calculation spreadsheet, using a 9" post setting variable. When I transferred the resulting string to a 2 post stretcher, I found it to be 1/4" inch short of the intended length. When I repeated this using an 8.75" post setting, the length came right on the money. So in conclusion, for a 9" outside end to outside end 4 post jig like mine, *you need to subtract 8.75" (not 9")* from the intended 2 post finished length or you will be 1/4 short when you move it to a 2 post stretcher.


Sounds right


Jbierl said:


> View attachment 7562228


Looks like served wrong way almost


----------



## William.Gib

SamT said:


> I think this is why ACME threads (vs tapered threads) may be a better option.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


 I tension my jig up to about 4:00 pounds and Spin the jig at high RPM to put on the serving it is built with acme thread it works beautiful


----------



## William.Gib

Perry24 said:


> I wouldn’t tension to 350 before twisting. When I did tag ends, I would do my layup and then set the jig to a 100# for a few minutes to equalize the strands. Then, I did my loops, twisted, and stretched for 2 hrs on the string and an hour for the cables. I allowed at least 30 mins to rest, checked my lengths, and then served. I like about 12# serving jig tension for strings and as tight as I can for cables.
> 
> I also found that when using a higher twist rate, I had a bit of peep rotation if I had to add additional twists. I dropped from .75 to .67 and that issue went away.


12 pounds on serving jig and that don't Cause you to have peep rotation so also by adding more twist it helps


----------



## William.Gib

NP Archery said:


> I'm not a big fan of alot of tension until AFTER the twist are added. The idea of a ton of tension before and during the twisting stage caused more harm than good for me. It seemed that the higher tension and longer stretch times were counter-productive and the rotation got worse the more #s I added. Now I never go much over #100 until the twist are in. My strings finish smoother, I can serve at a tighter rate when working with white/clear and peep rotation is a non-issue.


So your or asking not to stretch at 350 and not to serve either at that rate


----------



## 138104

William.Gib said:


> 12 pounds on serving jig and that don't Cause you to have peep rotation so also by adding more twist it helps


To clarify, are you saying that using a higher twist rate allows you to increase static tension on your serving jig?


----------



## 138104

William.Gib said:


> So your or asking not to stretch at 350 and not to serve either at that rate


I believe he is stating to not go over 100# until twists are added. After twists are added, then you can crank up the tension.


----------



## William.Gib

Perry24 said:


> I believe he is stating to not go over 100# until twists are added. After twists are added, then you can crank up the tension.


Cool


----------



## William.Gib

nestly said:


> I agree with the logic, but I think you should be able to do it on the stretcher just by running the tension up/down. The more I think about it, the more I wanna blame serving tension. If I understood correctly, his end-servings are .007 Halo. I gave up on Halo as end-servings because I had trouble with .014 breaking while serving, so I'd never be able to get .007 anywhere near as tight as I like.


Sounds awful tight


----------



## William.Gib

C.D.T said:


> Quick question regarding string twisting.
> Do any of you who have a BAP or similar single ended winding twister stretcher have any issues with the twists being uneven form the furthest end of the string compared to the twisting handle end or is it a non issue?
> I know the super server twistd both ends


No buf d I but do u put string separate in


----------



## William.Gib

NoviceAddicted said:


> I'm having trouble finding a cheap solution if there is one to this issue. I'm pretty comfortable with my string making setup but have one thing that is stumping me. I'm trying to find a quicker way to remove servings to reserve, than putting string on posts under tension and removing by hand. If anyone has any tips, techniques, cheap solutions to help. Not really looking to go to motorized serving machines unless someone is giving away. lol It's all about the speed removing servings without messing up strings. Thanks for any help!


Why would u need to take off serving


----------



## William.Gib

Jabr357 said:


> This and the picture is very confusing at least for me; what do you mean "left twisted string" ? do you mean twisted counter clockwise?
> 
> I twist my strings clockwise and serve in the direction as was said before that tightens the twists in front of the jig, which is also clockwise for me, right to left. Serving left to right direction gets confusing for me.
> 
> wish there was some easy to follow "cheat sheet" on this topic as it is very confusing but critical to get right.


From right hand to left hand


----------



## Huntinsker

William.Gib said:


> Why would u need to take off serving


When doing a string or cable repair you'll often need to take damaged serving off the piece to replace it with new. It's always best to repair a string on a stretcher as opposed to on a bow but no matter how you do it, taking the serving off is tedious.


----------



## thwackaddict

Huntinsker said:


> When doing a string or cable repair you'll often need to take damaged serving off the piece to replace it with new. It's always best to repair a string on a stretcher as opposed to on a bow but no matter how you do it, taking the serving off is tedious.


I would about rather build an entire new set than take off serving. LOL


----------



## 138104

thwackaddict said:


> I would about rather build an entire new set than take off serving. LOL


I tried paying my son $5 to remove 26” of serving from a Mathews. He started and about a minute into it, he said it wasn’t worth it…lol!

I broke down and ordered a serving machine from Specialty. I might see it by the end of the summer. I really can’t justify the cost with my current sales volume, but I might be more inclined to advertise if I have one.


----------



## thwackaddict

Perry24 said:


> I tried paying my son $5 to remove 26” of serving from a Mathews. He started and about a minute into it, he said it wasn’t worth it…lol!
> 
> I broke down and ordered a serving machine from Specialty. I might see it by the end of the summer. I really can’t justify the cost with my current sales volume, but I might be more inclined to advertise if I have one.


I just build for my self and family. That Specialty may really increase your string building efficiency. At the very least it should make enjoy it more.
Kind of like mowing with a really good zero turn after mowing with an old school rider.


----------



## 138104

thwackaddict said:


> I just build for my self and family. That Specialty may really increase your string building efficiency. At the very least it should make enjoy it more.
> Kind of like mowing with a really good zero turn after mowing with an old school rider.


That is what I am hoping. The NW Spinner is nice, but kills my wrists after an evening of serving.


----------



## thwackaddict

Perry24 said:


> That is what I am hoping. The NW Spinner is nice, but kills my wrists after an evening of serving.


Are you using a drill to spin it?


----------



## 138104

thwackaddict said:


> Are you using a drill to spin it?


Yes.


----------



## thwackaddict

Perry24 said:


> Yes.


I figured you were, but for me using the spinner is the funnest part!


----------



## William.Gib

wspicer said:


> Thank you my questions have been answered I’ve been using 452x with good results no peep twist or anything I just didn’t know if I was missing out on anything
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How the heck is every body else that just started building not getting peep twist and I am I don't know what I could be doing wrong need help


----------



## 138104

William.Gib said:


> How the heck is every body else that just started building not getting peep twist and I am I don't know what I could be doing wrong need help


Can you break down your build process?


----------



## deerbum

Removing serving isnt so bad. I spin an inch or so backwards a few times and spread it out, cut and then pull it off. I dont unwind it.


----------



## William.Gib

OK feathers I need some help I'm having a slight bit of peat rotation I lay up on a 4 post jig serve in loops Twist and stretch of 350 pounds Or better I have 2 sets of forepost one said which is Butch Baker I have a really nice homemade build jig that I built myself for stretching and twisting chin twisted I use all 454 or string material use all Halo angel majesty 62XS I have The best serving jigs they say you can get your hands on which are the WinderThe heavy one and the regularIn my eyes I believe it has a lot to do with string layout tension


----------



## 138104

William.Gib said:


> OK feathers I need some help I'm having a slight bit of peat rotation I lay up on a 4 post jig serve in loops Twist and stretch of 350 pounds Or better I have 2 sets of forepost one said which is Butch Baker I have a really nice homemade build jig that I built myself for stretching and twisting chin twisted I use all 454 or string material use all Halo angel majesty 62XS I have The best serving jigs they say you can get your hands on which are the WinderThe heavy one and the regularIn my eyes I believe it has a lot to do with string layout tension


Do you put any tension on the 4-post set? I use Butch’s 4-post tensioner to help even out the strands once I lay them out. I set it at 100# for about 10 mins and then serve my end loops. I feel like this is the most important step. 

I twist and then stretch for 2 hrs at 400#. I allow at least 30 minutes to rest then check lengths at 100# and serve at 400#. I use string clamps too, but only for the string.


----------



## William.Gib

Perry24 said:


> Do you put any tension on the 4-post set? I use Butch’s 4-post tensioner to help even out the strands once I lay them out. I set it at 100# for about 10 mins and then serve my end loops. I feel like this is the most important step.
> 
> I twist and then stretch for 2 hrs at 400#. I allow at least 30 minutes to rest then check lengths at 100# and serve at 400#. I use string clamps too, but only for the string.


 I do exactly what you just said exactly exactly so I built 2 stats last night both of them different colors the different colors I actually tried to build a pin stripe but have problems I don't know why I only put one round of string around it for the bin stripe anyway anyway after After stretching I have my splitter and the string for the peep site and I can watch it rotate maybe a quarter turn while letting up-and-down


----------



## 138104

William.Gib said:


> I do exactly what you just said exactly exactly so I built 2 stats last night both of them different colors the different colors I actually tried to build a pin stripe but have problems I don't know why I only put one round of string around it for the bin stripe anyway anyway after After stretching I have my splitter and the string for the peep site and I can watch it rotate maybe a quarter turn while letting up-and-down


Did you serve it yet? I’ve had strings do that prior to serving due to some bunching up of twists near the loops. Once served, they were fine.

Also, I would stick with a single or 2 color string until you get the results you want. Adding a pinstripe is just asking for trouble.


----------



## William.Gib

Perry24 said:


> Did you serve it yet? I’ve had strings do that prior to serving due to some bunching up of twists near the loops. Once served, they were fine.
> 
> Also, I would stick with a single or 2 color string until you get the results you want. Adding a pinstripe is just asking for trouble.


No not yet I just sat it to the side for right now I thought it may be different strand tension because it was 2 different colors spun together so now I got a solid color laid up up there I mean everybody says to serve anywhere from 6 to 10 pounds to me I feel like that's too tight that it's gonna cause peep rotation I know prior to this when I built one and I done tight serving I would put it backup on the stretcher take it off of the bow put it on the stretcher and when releasing pressure off of the string the D loop would make a 1/2 a rotation but the peep would kinda of stay straight


----------



## William.Gib

William.Gib said:


> No not yet I just sat it to the side for right now I thought it may be different strand tension because it was 2 different colors spun together so now I got a solid color laid up up there I mean everybody says to serve anywhere from 6 to 10 pounds to me I feel like that's too tight that it's gonna cause peep rotation I know prior to this when I built one and I done tight serving I would put it backup on the stretcher take it off of the bow put it on the stretcher and when releasing pressure off of the string the D loop would make a 1/2 a rotation but the peep would kinda of stay straight


And will do with single color or 2 no pin for me and I done a natural it's beautiful no rotation also have noticed that with bcy 454 that with my formula has Bern coming up almost 5/16 short I added about 3/16 so will see and that's all after stretching


----------



## 138104

If you are tensioning the layup before serving your end loops, I’m not sure what is going on. When you build a single color string, do you do 2 bundles or just one? Also, are you sure all the material is the same?


----------



## William.Gib

Perry24 said:


> If you are tensioning the layup before serving your end loops, I’m not sure what is going on. When you build a single color string, do you do 2 bundles or just one? Also, are you sure all the material is the same?


As far as I know string material is all 454 and I do one bundle


----------



## William.Gib

William.Gib said:


> As far as I know string material is all 454 and I do one bundle


----------



## William.Gib

How the heck do I add pics


----------



## thwackaddict

Serving suggestions?????

I am doing a Mathews Vertix. I made the yokes and used powergrip to serve the middle section.(figured it didn't get used up as fast as the 3d)
All I have on hand is 3d and powergrip. My boy wants a yellow and blue combo on colors. 

I did the yokes in all blue(8190F)

We have pondered one yellow cable and one blue cable and two color string. Another guy said all yellow cables/string and blue serving.

QUESTION 1) What do most of you use for the roller guard serving portion on the cables? power grip? 3d?
QUESTION 2) If we go solid colors of goldish yellow and/or electric blue what servings would you recommend?(I will have to buy colored serving I only have black)

Thanks in advance


----------



## 138104

thwackaddict said:


> Serving suggestions?????
> 
> I am doing a Mathews Vertix. I made the yokes and used powergrip to serve the middle section.(figured it didn't get used up as fast as the 3d)
> All I have on hand is 3d and powergrip. My boy wants a yellow and blue combo on colors.
> 
> I did the yokes in all blue(8190F)
> 
> We have pondered one yellow cable and one blue cable and two color string. Another guy said all yellow cables/string and blue serving.
> 
> QUESTION 1) What do most of you use for the roller guard serving portion on the cables? power grip? 3d?
> QUESTION 2) If we go solid colors of goldish yellow and/or electric blue what servings would you recommend?(I will have to buy colored serving I only have black)
> 
> Thanks in advance


For roller guards, I use 008 Spectra. 

Regarding the string colors, I would use royal blue and flo yellow with royal blue serving. Use halo or PG, not 3D.


----------



## thwackaddict

Perry24 said:


> For roller guards, I use 008 Spectra.
> 
> Regarding the string colors, I would use royal blue and flo yellow with royal blue serving. Use halo or PG, not 3D.


So .008 spectra in royal blue? 
Royal Blue Halo on end servings? What size?
Does .021 PG sound about right for center serving?(32 strands of 8190F) Do they make that in royal blue?


----------



## 138104

thwackaddict said:


> So .008 spectra in royal blue?
> Royal Blue Halo on end servings? What size?
> Does .021 PG sound about right for center serving?(32 strands of 8190F) Do they make that in royal blue?


I’d run clear Spectra for the roller guards. They do make it in royal blue. 

I believe 8190 builds a bit thicker than Mercury, so at 32 strands I am thinking .018 PG. Hopefully someone with more experience with that material will chime in. You can also get it in royal blue.


----------



## MarkZian

Does anybody make their strings with a counter clockwise twist?

If yes what are your thoughts?

Any pros or cons or things that you noticed? 

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

MarkZian said:


> Does anybody make their strings with a counter clockwise twist?
> 
> If yes what are your thoughts?
> 
> Any pros or cons or things that you noticed?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


Done it both ways and for me it came down to comfort and dexterity in how I serve. There's no difference in performance if they're done right but it will change how your arrow rotates coming off the bow because it reverses the angle of the serving. Otherwise it's personal preference.


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## William.Gib

doulos said:


> How about 3d for end servings? Ive only used halo. And I cant complain about how it holds up thats for sure. Its just over the top price wise.


Power grip works awsome on all


----------



## MarkZian

Thanks, Huntinsker and everybody that has contributed. This thread is amazing. 

The reason I ask is that I have just had some strange findings. 

As I did a lot of reading and youtube before making my first string, I decided to start with counterclockwise twisting as my understanding is that this would have the arrow spin clockwise and all my equipment was right helical for fletching. 

I was however having trouble with about a 1/8 of a turn of peep rotation. I did a lot of troubleshooting and I could not get rid of it. The string was stable however and it has just under 1000 shots through it. 

I decided that the only thing I hadn't tried was a clockwise string. So with the same material, I laid one out with the formula I knew to be correct for my counterclockwise string and it came in 3/8 short. 

I have now adjusted my formulas and have finished the string, just going through its final relaxation phase. However, I think I have solved my peep rotation issue, as now when I go up and down with the tension by the peep separator does not spin at all. 

Has anybody had a similar experience? 

My thoughts are maybe because the material is spun clockwise that a clockwise string keeps the individual strands under more tension, like twisting a tea towel. 

Looking forward to getting it on the bow for testing. 

Also a quick question, when making strings do people take into account how much the peep will effect the lenght? i.e adding an extra 1/16 so that it comes out on spect with the peep in?


----------



## SamT

Here are my thoughts: 

Making a string CW or CCW doesn't have any influence as to whether the strands are going to behave differently one way or another.

Most likely the cause of the peep movement was the difference in the lay-up tension between the two strings, i.e. you did a better job with the second string.

I don't think anyone allows any additional length for the installation of a peep sight. The amount of the hypotenuse length part of the string would be very miniscule. (approx 0.035")

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## MarkZian

SamT said:


> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> Making a string CW or CCW doesn't have any influence as to whether the strands are going to behave differently one way or another.
> 
> Most likely the cause of the peep movement was the difference in the lay-up tension between the two strings, i.e. you did a better job with the second string.
> 
> I don't think anyone allows any additional length for thw installation of a peep sight. The amount of the hypotenuse length part of the string would be very miniscule. (approx 0.035")
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Is this coming from experience? Have you made many ccw strings? 

I have made about 6 ccw strings trouble shooting to solve the rotation. 

All were laid up with a baker archery jig to give even tension. 

I changed to cw and my formula is now way off and the rotation is gone. Same material black 452x

It doesn't make sense to me. I expected it wasn't going to change anything by rotation was just something I hadn't' figured out yet. 







Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


----------



## SamT

MarkZian said:


> Is this coming from experience? Have you made many ccw strings? ...
> 
> All were laid up with a baker archery jig to give even tension. ...
> 
> It doesn't make sense to me. ...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


...no, not from large experience. Only have made a couple CCW strings and they were many years ago. 

...were they laid out in the same direction? I wouldn't think that the lay-out direction would have any effect, but ...?

...doesn't make any sense to me either. 

Hopefully you'll find the answer to your mystery. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## MarkZian

SamT said:


> ...no, not from large experience. Only have made a couple CCW strings and they were many years ago.
> 
> ...were they laid out in the same direction? I wouldn't think that the lay-out direction would have any effect, but ...?
> 
> ...doesn't make any sense to me either.
> 
> Hopefully you'll find the answer to your mystery.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Oh no, not another rabbit hole for me to go down. Both were laid up in a clockwise direction. I think my mystery is solved for the time being. Looks like I will just stick with the CW for the time being.


----------



## 138104

MarkZian said:


> Oh no, not another rabbit hole for me to go down. Both were laid up in a clockwise direction. I think my mystery is solved for the time being. Looks like I will just stick with the CW for the time being.


I’ve done my layout both ways and even one CW and the other color CCW and it made no difference.

It really doesn’t make sense that a CW twisted string is coming out significantly shorter than CCW twist. I would untwist the CW twisted string and then twist CCW and see if the lengths are the same.


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> I’ve done my layout both ways and even one CW and the other color CCW and it made no difference.
> 
> It really doesn’t make sense that a CW twisted string is coming out significantly shorter than CCW twist. I would untwist the CW twisted string and then twist CCW and see if the lengths are the same.


I intentionally lay out clockwise with one half and counterclockwise with the other half of the bundle.


----------



## 138104

Huntinsker said:


> I intentionally lay out clockwise with one half and counterclockwise with the other half of the bundle.


Have you noticed a difference doing them that way versus both CW?


----------



## MarkZian

Perry24 said:


> I’ve done my layout both ways and even one CW and the other color CCW and it made no difference.
> 
> It really doesn’t make sense that a CW twisted string is coming out significantly shorter than CCW twist. I would untwist the CW twisted string and then twist CCW and see if the lengths are the same.


Good idea I'll do this. Dont know why i didnt think of that. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


----------



## Huntinsker

Perry24 said:


> Have you noticed a difference doing them that way versus both CW?


I haven't but in my head it makes sense that if I were to go the same direction and have uneven tension with my wraps, maybe they'd cancel out going opposite ways.?. Probably not but it doesn't hurt anything so I go with it. Makes me feel better being "balanced" out haha.


----------



## fgignac

Huntinsker said:


> I haven't but in my head it makes sense that if I were to go the same direction and have uneven tension with my wraps, maybe they'd cancel out going opposite ways.?. Probably not but it doesn't hurt anything so I go with it. Makes me feel better being "balanced" out haha.


The string building placebo effect. 

If you believe your strings are built better, then they will shoot better 😂


----------



## fgignac

Hi guys

I just built my first set of strings for my 2016 PSE Beast EXT.

452x
22 Strand String with 0.013 4-strand braided fishing line for serving
24 strand cables with 0.014 powergrip serving

Here's my question. I put on the threads. ATA is good (38 1/16), brace is good (7 1/4), draw length is 1/8 long (no biggie), peak weight is 1lbs high (no biggie), but holding way is way off. This bow is supposed to have 80% letoff. So at 61lbs peak weight I would expect 12.2lbs holding weight. But I'm getting 17lbs. Which is 72% letoff

I usually short-mod this bow to get higher holding weight. So the first thing I did was make sure the mod and the draw stop are on the same setting, which they are.

What could be causing this? How can everything else be in spec but the holding weight so far off?


----------



## CKCECB

Maybe the finished diameter of your cables is fatter than your previous cables; that could increase holding weight.


----------



## fgignac

CKCECB said:


> Maybe the finished diameter of your cables is fatter than your previous cables; that could increase holding weight.


So fatter will increase holding and thinner will decrease? 

I'll compare with my old set when I get home

Would it be reasonable to expect such a big difference?


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I just built my first set of strings for my 2016 PSE Beast EXT.
> 
> 452x
> 22 Strand String with 0.013 4-strand braided fishing line for serving
> 24 strand cables with 0.014 powergrip serving
> 
> Here's my question. I put on the threads. ATA is good (38 1/16), brace is good (7 1/4), draw length is 1/8 long (no biggie), peak weight is 1lbs high (no biggie), but holding way is way off. This bow is supposed to have 80% letoff. So at 61lbs peak weight I would expect 12.2lbs holding weight. But I'm getting 17lbs. Which is 72% letoff
> 
> I usually short-mod this bow to get higher holding weight. So the first thing I did was make sure the mod and the draw stop are on the same setting, which they are.
> 
> What could be causing this? How can everything else be in spec but the holding weight so far off?


Did you record your holding weight before? Letoff percentage is a lot like IBO speed these days. Manufacturers are almost always inflating the number because having a bow that shoots faster with a higher letoff sells better than the reality of a slower, stiffer bow. I've recorded a lot of holding weights over the years and they're almost all 5-10% low.


----------



## fgignac

Huntinsker said:


> Did you record your holding weight before? Letoff percentage is a lot like IBO speed these days. Manufacturers are almost always inflating the number because having a bow that shoots faster with a higher letoff sells better than the reality of a slower, stiffer bow. I've recorded a lot of holding weights over the years and they're almost all 5-10% low.


I did

I was shooting it at 56lbs and I had 11lbs holding which is right around 80%

Last summer outdoors I was running the mad 1/2 longer than the stops, which gave me 17lbs holding at 56 peak, so about 70% letoff. 

But now I'm getting 72% with the mod and stop in the same position. Which is actually kind of cool, because I get the higher holding without loosing the valley like I did when I was short modding... But I'd still like to understand what is going on 🤔


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> I did
> 
> I was shooting it at 56lbs and I had 11lbs holding which is right around 80%
> 
> Last summer outdoors I was running the mad 1/2 longer than the stops, which gave me 17lbs holding at 56 peak, so about 70% letoff.
> 
> But now I'm getting 72% with the mod and stop in the same position. Which is actually kind of cool, because I get the higher holding without loosing the valley like I did when I was short modding... But I'd still like to understand what is going on 🤔


Chances are before changing the string set, the string was too long which increases letoff. The correct, shorter string length decreases letoff and your holding weight goes up. 

Were you shooting 56lbs because you had the limb bolts backed out or because that's what it maxed out at?


----------



## fgignac

Huntinsker said:


> Chances are before changing the string set, the string was too long which increases letoff. The correct, shorter string length decreases letoff and your holding weight goes up.
> 
> Were you shooting 56lbs because you had the limb bolts backed out or because that's what it maxed out at?


Limb bolts were backed off.

Last time I changed the strings everything cam out to spec. But I'll measure the old string and see what it was at.

If my old string was too long wouldn't my peak weight and draw length been off?


----------



## Marballfire

Hi again all - I'm still battling peep rotation during the draw when I make my strings. I've taken every step I can think of to try to get it right but it just isnt happening. Latest process is as follows:


Switched to a two post jig - locked the spring for layout so the posts couldn't move closer.
Laid out the bundle and tied off the ends
used spare cylindrical piece of metal to even out tension on individual strands after layup by pulling from the center of the bundle out throughout the length of the string
stretched for maybe 5 minutes to further even out strand tension
used spare pieces of string to do tag end serving to prevent creating uneven tension from pulling tags too hard
burnished separated string bundles and then separated individual strands per previous recommendation from Huntinsker. NOTE at this step I feel I am removing a TON of wax from the strong (flo green spec 454). I'm talking like a 1/2" diameter ball of wax between the 4 bundles. Don't know if excessive wax in this batch of string material is giving me issues?
brought to about 100-150 lbs and twisted clockwise, reducing tension again every so many twists as tension built up
stretched at 300-350 lbs for several hours
relieved tension and let sit on jig overnight to rest
tensioned up to about 350 lbs again and did all servings clockwise. Chose not to use string clamps this time and kept the tension only tight enough to keep a flag from doing more than 1/4 turn. I serve from my right to left with jig going away from me over the top, toward me underneath (indicating clockwise)
let relax on the jig again overnight
put on bow

Any thoughts or tips for me? My next thought is to buy a spool of natural 452X and see if a lower wax material helps?


----------



## deerbum

I've had good luck with lack of peep rotation, it's not "right" just my process:
Lock spring end
Layout securing tag ends
Tag end serve, pulling both ends hard at the same time after each wrap, guessing less than a dozen wraps each side. Let one tag hang while completing first side. Weave tag 3x through half bundle to lock. Repeat with other tag.
Secure pins by weaving tags 3x through half bundles.
Tag end serve other end.
Add tees to separate colors, add a chaser (piece of string material)around the pinstripes.
Add around half the twists under low tension-guessing 50 to no more the 100#'s. Remove tees.
Chase pins if necessary.
Add remaining twists and chase pin if necessary.
Bring up to 300# and burnish one swipe each direction using string material.
Stretch 2 plus hours, relax overnight.
Bring up to 300#.
Add clamps while serving, and move them during end serving to maintain less than 12" between clamps, or clamp and end post.


So, I skip the pretensioning and wax removal. When beginning the tag serving I dont cross the tags or knot them. The tags as laid are wrapped around bundle on their respective sides, using Huntinskers described technique of pulling tag loops tight behind the post before cinching down.


----------



## Huntinsker

fgignac said:


> Limb bolts were backed off.
> 
> Last time I changed the strings everything cam out to spec. But I'll measure the old string and see what it was at.
> 
> If my old string was too long wouldn't my peak weight and draw length been off?


It would but if your cables were also too long they may cancel each other out. I've found that when backing limb bolts out, it can change letoff percentage a little so that may have contributed too. 

The only real way to know what's going on or what might be different is to put the factory set back on after getting them to exact advertised lengths. Then see what the bow is doing. Then compare what's different to your custom set. Chances are the differences won't be much and it's just the company inflating the numbers.


----------



## Huntinsker

Marballfire said:


> Hi again all - I'm still battling peep rotation during the draw when I make my strings. I've taken every step I can think of to try to get it right but it just isnt happening. Latest process is as follows:
> 
> 
> Switched to a two post jig - locked the spring for layout so the posts couldn't move closer.
> Laid out the bundle and tied off the ends
> used spare cylindrical piece of metal to even out tension on individual strands after layup by pulling from the center of the bundle out throughout the length of the string
> stretched for maybe 5 minutes to further even out strand tension
> used spare pieces of string to do tag end serving to prevent creating uneven tension from pulling tags too hard
> burnished separated string bundles and then separated individual strands per previous recommendation from Huntinsker. NOTE at this step I feel I am removing a TON of wax from the strong (flo green spec 454). I'm talking like a 1/2" diameter ball of wax between the 4 bundles. *Don't know if excessive wax in this batch of string material is giving me issues?*
> brought to about 100-150 lbs and twisted clockwise, reducing tension again every so many twists as tension built up
> stretched at 300-350 lbs for several hours
> relieved tension and let sit on jig overnight to rest
> tensioned up to about 350 lbs again and did all servings clockwise. Chose not to use string clamps this time and kept the tension only tight enough to keep a flag from doing more than 1/4 turn. I serve from my right to left with jig going away from me over the top, toward me underneath (indicating clockwise)
> let relax on the jig again overnight
> put on bow
> 
> Any thoughts or tips for me? My next thought is to buy a spool of natural 452X and see if a lower wax material helps?


That sounds like a lot. I had a spool of Tan BCY 452x that was absolutely lousy with wax and I had rotation issues with it. Even running it through a rag while laying it out didn't completely get rid of it. I got a different spool with less wax and the rotation issues went away. That's the only thing that changed, was a new spool. The space that all that wax takes up makes a difference in how well the strands can seat into the bundle and if the other half settles in better, it'll create tension differences.


----------



## Marballfire

Huntinsker said:


> That sounds like a lot. I had a spool of Tan BCY 452x that was absolutely lousy with wax and I had rotation issues with it. Even running it through a rag while laying it out didn't completely get rid of it. I got a different spool with less wax and the rotation issues went away. That's the only thing that changed, was a new spool. The space that all that wax takes up makes a difference in how well the strands can seat into the bundle and if the other half settles in better, it'll create tension differences.


That makes sense. I was thinking natural 454 or 452X might have less wax to start with. Is that valid or is there a way to specify "low wax" material?


----------



## thwackaddict

Perry24 said:


> 3D is fine for strings, but not cables on today’s cams. You could use either .014 Halo or .014 PowerGrip on 22 strands. If you have it, .009 PowerGrip works great on those cams, but your bundle will be a bit smaller.


Why do you say that 3D isn’t good for cables?


----------



## Jbierl

Who has built a lot of Prime strings. I am having issues with their string specs. I build strings exactly to their specs at 100# of tension and they end up being 3/8-1/2” short. Does anyone know if their string lengths are at rest and not under 100#?


----------



## thwackaddict

So I just made a set for my boys Mathews Vertix. I used .018 powergrip on the loops. This was not a good idea. Too fat to lay in the plastic AVS thingys easily.
I used 3D on everything else and .018 Powergrip on center serving. This was all on 32 strands of 8190 F. The 3D seemed fine on the end servings, but 
seemed very thick on the cable roller sections.

So I had a recommendation of .008 spectra. I wondered about .009 powergrip for ends and cable roller section?

So I have always done servings in black... couldn't afford to experiment with variety. My boys is thinking all royal blue might be cool. We tried a yellow gold and royal blue twisted string and one yellow cable and one blue cable. He thinks all blue might be the best.

QUESTION 1) Should I use Royal blue .008 spectra(says blue on Lancaster), and/or royal blue powergrip in .009 for ends/cable rollers section? I know the .018 powergrip for center is perfect.
QUESTION 2) Would clear serving look better over the royal blue? If so, Halo?, what size for loops, ends, and roller section. I never have done clear.

Just don't want to waste money on something that won't look good. The set we just made looks crappy to me. Damn near all black(serving).

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## William.Gib

nestly said:


> I'm not sure you've really proved the cause of "bumps" is not unequal strand tension. Infact I'd argue you're tests confirm that bumps are the result of unequal strand tension. It's not necessarily that one whole loop is longer than another, but if the serving (or wax) is causing some strands not to stretch/contract at the same rate when going from high to low tension, that's still an uneveness of tension on the strands in the bundle. Heat (and/or a number of shock cycles on the bow) may allow the strands to equalize, but I still think it's better to develop a process that doesn't introduce those unequal tensions within portions of the string to begin with.
> 
> IMO, it's not the "wax" that's causing the bumps, the bump is the point where the wax yields because one or more strands is trying to relax more than the other strands, and the "extra" length in those strands puffs out. Imagine one or more strands in the string was made of a material that was more elastic than the others, a rubber band for example, with wax to help hold it all together. That would also cause the bundle to "puff out" when going from high tension to low tension... right?


 I agree I don't see how wax could ever get in the way under 350 pounds or 400 pounds of tension I don't know Though I just started about a year ago if year ago I'm still learning myself


----------



## William.Gib

thwackaddict said:


> So I just made a set for my boys Mathews Vertix. I used .018 powergrip on the loops. This was not a good idea. Too fat to lay in the plastic AVS thingys easily.
> I used 3D on everything else and .018 Powergrip on center serving. This was all on 32 strands of 8190 F. The 3D seemed fine on the end servings, but
> seemed very thick on the cable roller sections.
> 
> So I had a recommendation of .008 spectra. I wondered about .009 powergrip for ends and cable roller section?
> 
> So I have always done servings in black... couldn't afford to experiment with variety. My boys is thinking all royal blue might be cool. We tried a yellow gold and royal blue twisted string and one yellow cable and one blue cable. He thinks all blue might be the best.
> 
> QUESTION 1) Should I use Royal blue .008 spectra(says blue on Lancaster), and/or royal blue powergrip in .009 for ends/cable rollers section? I know the .018 powergrip for center is perfect.
> QUESTION 2) Would clear serving look better over the royal blue? If so, Halo?, what size for loops, ends, and roller section. I never have done clear.
> 
> Just don't want to waste money on something that won't look good. The set we just made looks crappy to me. Damn near all black(serving).
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!


That power grip is no joke in fact on bowtec Reckoning 38 has Severe bins in the Cam and I've had that power grip on there for some time now and it has not busted split nothing


----------



## thwackaddict

Jbierl said:


> Who has built a lot of Prime strings. I am having issues with their string specs. I build strings exactly to their specs at 100# of tension and they end up being 3/8-1/2” short. Does anyone know if their string lengths are at rest and not under 100#?


I take the length it is supposed to be times 1.0075 to set my jig posts lengths. Example 60x1.0075=60.45. So set the posts 60.45” apart. I then take 60x.66 to get about 40 twists to put in it. That shortens it back to the correct length. I used to try to measure and rest and 100 lbs etc etc etc. Now I don’t even bother. I trust the process above and go with it.


----------



## thwackaddict

William.Gib said:


> That power grip is no joke in fact on bowtec Reckoning 38 has Severe bins in the Cam and I've had that power grip on there for some time now and it has not busted split nothing


Have you used power grip to do clear? And if so what size? What size did you use for the 38?


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## Huntinsker

thwackaddict said:


> Why do you say that 3D isn’t good for cables?


Cable ends are usually pretty hard on cable end serving and braided servings hold up better than twisted servings like 3D. 3D will work for a while but won't last near as long as a braided serving like Halo, Powergrip etc.


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## thwackaddict

Huntinsker said:


> Cable ends are usually pretty hard on cable end serving and braided servings hold up better than twisted servings like 3D. 3D will work for a while but won't last near as long as a braided serving like Halo, Powergrip etc.


Thanks! What do you prefer for clear cable and string ends and roller guard sections?


----------



## automan26

The all-time clearest serving Is 20# Berkeley UltraCast Invisi-Braid. You'll not have any need for a clearifier and I swear, the string looks clearer after serving than it did before it was served. 

Automan


----------



## Huntinsker

thwackaddict said:


> Thanks! What do you prefer for clear cable and string ends and roller guard sections?


I use halo on cable ends personally. If the string track is pretty easy on the string, 3D would be fine for the string but won't hold up on the cables. I'm not really a fan of clear serving on my personal stuff though because it will always look more worn than colored serving when it starts to go milky white as you shoot the bow.


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## thwackaddict

Huntinsker said:


> I use halo on cable ends personally. If the string track is pretty easy on the string, 3D would be fine for the string but won't hold up on the cables. I'm not really a fan of clear serving on my personal stuff though because it will always look more worn than colored serving when it starts to go milky white as you shoot the bow.


Thanks for the opinion. I have been debating Royal blue serving on royal blue string, or clear over the blue. May just try the blue on blue. 
Once again, thanks for the info. Gotta love this forum.


----------



## thwackaddict

Huntinsker said:


> I use halo on cable ends personally. If the string track is pretty easy on the string, 3D would be fine for the string but won't hold up on the cables. I'm not really a fan of clear serving on my personal stuff though because it will always look more worn than colored serving when it starts to go milky white as you shoot the bow.


So do you use .014 halo on ends for string and cable and power grip for center? I am using .018 power grip already so I know that is a good nock fit with 32 strands of 8190 F. 
What about cable roller sections? .014 halo, or .007 halo, and why is the .007 $43? Or use .008 spectra?


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## William.Gib

FlyingWatchmake said:


> Does anyone have a good durable invisible serving at the moment? I made this set for my ct9 2? Weeks ago, and about 1000-1200 shots through and the extreme bends are not kind to them.. :-/
> 
> These are x99 with 20# spider wire invisi-braid
> 
> Tom
> 
> View attachment 6820639
> View attachment 6820641


Power grip .14 works great on hard bend


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## Huntinsker

thwackaddict said:


> So do you use .014 halo on ends for string and cable and power grip for center? I am using .018 power grip already so I know that is a good nock fit with 32 strands of 8190 F.
> What about cable roller sections? .014 halo, or .007 halo, and why is the .007 $43? Or use .008 spectra?


I use powergrip for centers, size depends on nock fit, Halo .014 for most end servings but do use .014 powergrip for tough cable end servings if needed. I'll use 3D for string ends on lighter weight bows or bows with really easy string tracks. Anything with sharp bends, I'll use halo. Halo .007 halo on rollers works well and is what I use mostly but it depends on what the manufacturer uses too. Some use .014 so if they use that, so do I. I've not used .008 Spectra in this application because it's twisted and I don't think it would hold up well like a braided material does. I've also used braided fishing line on buss cables through some rollers and cable slides for added wear protection. That works well too.


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## William.Gib

Mcskillz916 said:


> Im just trying to understand why i see to twist clockwise but others twist CCW what is the significance of the twist direction?


 Limb strings right there look like to me they're twisted clockwise from the bottom of the bow up


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## SamT

William.Gib said:


> Limb strings right there look like to me they're twisted clockwise from the bottom of the bow up


Which way would you twist to make the stripes tighter looking? 

Answer: CCW

Therefore the picture in post#7011 is an example of a CCW string.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


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## thwackaddict

Huntinsker said:


> I use powergrip for centers, size depends on nock fit, Halo .014 for most end servings but do use .014 powergrip for tough cable end servings if needed. I'll use 3D for string ends on lighter weight bows or bows with really easy string tracks. Anything with sharp bends, I'll use halo. Halo .007 halo on rollers works well and is what I use mostly but it depends on what the manufacturer uses too. Some use .014 so if they use that, so do I. I've not used .008 Spectra in this application because it's twisted and I don't think it would hold up well like a braided material does. I've also used braided fishing line on buss cables through some rollers and cable slides for added wear protection. That works well too.


Thanks for all the tips. Where do you order serving from?


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## Huntinsker

thwackaddict said:


> Thanks for all the tips. Where do you order serving from?


I haven't actually ordered any in a while but I definitely won't order from 60x any more after they shorted me and several other people on their spools. There was someone on here that got their dealer account with BCY and were offering to sell materials at a good price but I can't remember who that was.


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## Marballfire

Hi All

Checking back in as I was able to build a string with less than 1/8th of a turn on the peep as I draw back vs. having 1/4 turn before, so I feel I'm heading in the right direction. A couple changes in the process for this build were:

Laid out using a tensioner set to relatively high tension. Checked my measurements between the posts to make sure they didn't lean into each other after layup.
Pulled pretty hard on the tag ends when i did the tag end serving for the loops
DIDN'T close my end loops using the tag ends - waited to close them when I did the end servings
Put about 200 lbs of tension on the bundles for about 10 minutes after i did the tag ends to equalize the bundles (wasn't doing this before)
Skipped the dewaxing of the 4 separate bundles (Just as a trial)

Everything after that step I did the same, so I think the better strings lie somewhere in one the steps above. I did also switch to a spook of natural 454 and noticed it was WAY less waxy than the green/blac speck 454 I was using before. This was the result of my 4th attempt with the natural color, and also the first one that didn't come out with "the bumps" so I'm thinking uneven strand tension has been the bane of my existence.

Just happy to finally be seeing positive results!


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## lunghit

Hello all I am looking to see if there is any jig layout difference between 452X and X99. I have been building with 452x for many years but want to try X99. Do I need to change my jig post settings at all? Thanks


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## Gene1

No, but your strand count will be higher.


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## lunghit

Gene1 said:


> No, but your strand count will be higher.


Thanks appreciate the reply. Yes I’ll be doing 28 strand.


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## SamT

Isn't the tensile (breaking) strength of SK99 (X99) higher than SK75 (452X)? 

If so, then you could use the same number of strands for a stronger string. And, if you do use the same number of strands, I thought X99 would produce a smaller diameter string.? And if smaller, a smaller loss of length on the same number of twists (twist variable).?

If you keep the finished diameter the same then the twist variable should be about the same too.

Just asking too.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## SamT

Here's a screenshot of a factsheet for various dyneema fiber types (SK's).









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## MD Target Archer

Subscribed


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## Texashunter07

Hey yall! This has been a absolutely amazing thread and full of a ton of information! Thank you to everyone that has contributed!

A special thank you to @automan26 for sending me El-Cheap-o jig to build some strings with! I can not wait to get it in.

I just ordered some material (flo orange x99, pg .018, pg .014, speed nocks and pliers) I plan on doing some practice first on building a couple short pieces and work on my tag end serving and end serving for a little bit. 

The strings I will be ultimately building for myself are for a Hoyt Invicta 37. Im hoping the pg .014 will work for the roller guards or i may go with the braided fishing line that @Huntinsker has recommended for that section. I currently have a aftermarket set on the bow that I believe is x99 and they have 28 strands but it seems pretty large so I was thinking of going with a 24 straind on both the string and cables.

I have watched a ton of youtube videos and read through this forum and feel confident that I can do this! I had actually just ordered a brand new set of strings for the bow so ill be putting those on when i get them and running them for a bit so I can make sure the strings I build will be built properly.


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## CKCECB

Texashunter07 said:


> The strings I will be ultimately building for myself are for a Hoyt Invicta 37. Im hoping the pg .014 will work for the roller guards or i may go with the braided fishing line that @Huntinsker has recommended for that section. I currently have a aftermarket set on the bow that I believe is x99 and they have 28 strands but it seems pretty large so I was thinking of going with a 24 straind on both the string and cables.


When you build your short test strings, make sure you vary the strand count and the serving and you will be able to use them to test-fit to give you and idea of how things will fit in the tracks. But make sure to label them (I have a bunch of unlabeled samples so don't be me).


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## Texashunter07

CKCECB said:


> When you build your short test strings, make sure you vary the strand count and the serving and you will be able to use them to test-fit to give you and idea of how things will fit in the tracks. But make sure to label them (I have a bunch of unlabeled samples so don't be me).


Thanks thats a great idea!


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## Gene1

I’m using 26 strands of X99 with halo .014 white. That combo works well on all 3 of my bows.
I’m using tagged end on my loops.

On my set of strings on the invicta DCX cam it was kinda of fat and you can see it not fully recess in the cam at certain spots. I think I got sloppy and not had enough tension on the serving. It works but recently I swap to SVX cams and made new strings and they fit perfectly in the cam.


----------



## Gene1

Speed nok.
My 2 older bows did not have speed noks or any info. My invitca string specs shows location of them. Stock strings has 3 on top and bottom.
Which is the correct noks to get?
My local shop sold me saunder noks black. It looks like it fits ok with my string with 26 x99 with halo .014.
Now looking on line I see Saunders has 2 types of noks. One is label speed nok.
Which one is the correct one and the saunder nok have like 4 different sizes and weights. The speed nok does not have weight spec only red 16-18 strand or black 12-14 strand.
My string count is way off.
However I did Chrono the invicta once I switched the Dcx to the SVX cam and new limbs with new strings without and with black noks. I only gain 2fps. Is this all you gain?
I shorten my dl 1/2” and lost 5fps. That hurts!


----------



## Texashunter07

Gene1 said:


> I’m using 26 strands of X99 with halo .014 white. That combo works well on all 3 of my bows.
> 
> On my set of strings on the invicta DCX cam it was kinda of fat and you can see it not fully recess in the cam. I think I got sloppy and not had enough tension on the serving. It works but recently I swap to SVX cams and made new strings and they fit perfectly in the cam.


I have the svx cams and they came with some strings that have 28strand and my coach said they were too big. I was going to do a 24 strand with the .014 powergrip for the end loops which i think will work good.


----------



## bfittock

For end loops i use halo .007 and 0.14 halo or power grip power Grip is slightly bigger then halo in 0.14 as for strand count I use 26 to 28 strands of x99 I prefer halo over power grip for ends I find power grip brake easy then Halo hope this helps a bit regards Brett fittock BF custom bowstring Australia


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## b0w_bender

Gene1 said:


> Speed nok.
> My 2 older bows did not have speed noks or any info. My invitca string specs shows location of them. Stock strings has 3 on top and bottom.
> Which is the correct noks to get?
> My local shop sold me saunder noks black. It looks like it fits ok with my string with 26 x99 with halo .014.
> Now looking on line I see Saunders has 2 types of noks. One is label speed nok.
> Which one is the correct one and the saunder nok have like 4 different sizes and weights. The speed nok does not have weight spec only red 16-18 strand or black 12-14 strand.
> My string count is way off.
> However I did Chrono the invicta once I switched the Dcx to the SVX cam and new limbs with new strings without and with black noks. I only gain 2fps. Is this all you gain?
> I shorten my dl 1/2” and lost 5fps. That hurts!


This whole speed nock thing came about buy some DIY guys farting around trying to sqeek out a few more feet per second on their bows. They started pinching nocks onto a string and testing them out. None of the manufacturers at that time ever sent them out on their bows . Well It turns out that yes indeed you could get significant improvements if you added weight to the string right below the cams. The exact placement and weight of those speed nocks varied depending on the geometry of the bow and angle of the string and probably other factors too. So I"m not sure I would totally trust that the factory did all that tweaking and testing anyway. I would guess that many of the manufacturers are actually sticking them on their strings more for the marketing value than the measured improved speed. So what I'm getting at is if you want the best speed possible out of your bow you'll likely need to fiddle with different weights and locations and do some testing. Baring all that extra work, stick what ever knocks you have on the string where ever you think looks good and you'll likely get better performance. OK maybe not the best speed but hey they will look cool and if anyone questions it, you can say "from my testing this gives me the best results".


----------



## automan26

When speed nocks first came out on factory strings I tried something interesting. I placed a brass nockset on the string about 3" up from the factory speed nocks. I don't remember my exact numbers, but I think I got at least 5 (maybe 7) fps more than the factory setup.

Automan


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## bfittock

Hi guys iv been building strings for quite a few years now iv allways used Halo for end loops and end serving iv seen some people use Dorisea braided fishing im interested in peoples feed back on this material compared to halo material on wear on cables strings ect and serving diameter I'm looking at ordering some to try this material iv notice it's a lot cheaper to purchase then halo look forward to your reply regards Brett fittock BF custom bowstring Australia


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## automan26

I've used the same material under different names for years. It holds up extremely well. I use it primarily for end serving, but I know of guys who have used it successfully as center serving. I've been using 50# for end serving and 20# on the cables under the rollers. 50# works great, but my next order will be for 40#.

Automan


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## William.Gib

bfittock said:


> Hi guys iv been building strings for quite a few years now iv allways used Halo for end loops and end serving iv seen some people use Dorisea braided fishing im interested in peoples feed back on this material compared to halo material on wear on cables strings ect and serving diameter I'm looking at ordering some to try this material iv notice it's a lot cheaper to purchase then halo look forward to your reply regards Brett fittock BF custom bowstring Australia


 I got some braided fishing line off of Amazon and it's also some out of Walmart and I'm telling you right now It works great


----------



## deerbum

I use 40# 4 strand on everything other than centers or cable ends on my bowtech odb cam bows. No separation or wear out after 4 years of moderate use. Thinner 20# line would be better for rollers but 40# has worked fine for the odbs.
I haven't tried it on cable ends, have a "lifetime" supply of powergrip for that application.


----------



## fgignac

I use 40# on string ends and 8# white which goes really nice and clear on the slide area of my cable and on my string stop.

No issues whatsoever so far. I have never used Halo, but I found the braided fishing line much nicer to work with than powergrip.

Next set it make I will be using the fishing line on my cables to see how it holds up


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## lunghit

What’s everyone’s opinion on using some tape to cover speed nocks. I’m talking trimmed and applied real nice and neat. Looking for other options than using a heat gun or peep tubing. Maybe a light layer of super glue on the tape where it would overlap to really hold it in place. 
You can just tape the nocks and not serving to make it look nice and neat.


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## Huntinsker

Can't imagine tape would hold up well under the stress of the shot. If there's a seam, there's a failure point and it'll likely peel itself off pretty quickly.


----------



## lunghit

Huntinsker said:


> Can't imagine tape would hold up well under the stress of the shot. If there's a seam, there's a failure point and it'll likely peel itself off pretty quickly.


I might give it a try on a set of my strings. You’re probably correct but it says permanent so we’ll see lol


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## bfittock

I just use shrink tubing over all my speed nocks when I build string for customer I don't think tape would last long cheers regards Brett fittock BF custom bowstring Australia


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## fgignac

I would be surprised if that works well. But definitely let us know how your test goes!


----------



## lunghit

fgignac said:


> I would be surprised if that works well. But definitely let us know how your test goes!


I definitely will. I'll only experiment on my strings and I'm not making another for myself till after the season. I will update this in the future


----------



## MD Target Archer

William.Gib said:


> I got some braided fishing line off of Amazon and it's also some out of Walmart and I'm telling you right now It works great


For those that are using fishing line, can you share brand and type please? I want to practice, and this sounds cheaper than wasting a $35 roll of halo. Thanks in advance.


----------



## deerbum

Spectra extreme braid 40# 4 strand. This chinese "brand" is now becoming obsolete. Bought a pile so I'm set for a while. I'll try agepoch next when I need more, guessing it's the same product.
It only makes sense to use a cheaper product where it is effective. Would you use pharmaceutical grade sodium chloride or Himalayan pink to deice your driveway because it's the best?
I use fishing line for 2/3rds of all serving on each bowstring. 26 inches of powergrip (cable ends and center) and 64 inches of fishing line on my bowtech odbs. Each bow model differs but fishing line is adequate for most applications.


----------



## doulos

So what size braided fishing line would be a good replacement for Halo .014?


----------



## bfittock

doulos said:


> So what size braided fishing line would be a good replacement for Halo .014?


40 pound give you the same diameter as 0.14 halo iv measure it against 24 strands off bcy 452x with 0.14 Halo


----------



## MD Target Archer

Thanks guys, I purchased some of the Dorisea in 40#, 70#, and 90#.

Do the 100 meter rolls fit the serving bobbins? If not, are you just respooling them onto spools that do fit?


----------



## Gene1

Was thinking to try serving ends instead of tag ends. Was reading about the Dorisea $6.98 and can’t beat that price vs halo $41.99 (.007” is .1778mm).
Halo .007 spec shows 35lb breaking strength.
Which one you guys are using 10lb (.014mm) or 15lb (.018mm)?


----------



## deerbum

I purchased a dozen empty spools from a pro builder along with a few spools of .018" powergrip, and 1/4# bulk spools of .014" powergrip (roughly 8 standard spools of material). At the time which was around 6 years ago, I figured the .014" powergrip was around 8-9$ per standard spool when purchased in bulk. 
So yes you'll need empty spools to wind it on. A carriage bolt and nut to hold the empty spool and chuck it up on a drill.


----------



## automan26

Mount the spool on a carriage bolt and chuck it in a drill. Forget the wingnuts, even I don't know why it's there.

Automan


----------



## MD Target Archer

I purchased a Yellowstone string jig and all the string making materials from a local shop after the owner passed away. I have a few spools that are empty to repurpose. It looks like your spool is 3D printed. I do have a printer and could make my own, thanks for the idea.


----------



## Texashunter07

MD Target Archer said:


> I purchased a Yellowstone string jig and all the string making materials from a local shop after the owner passed away. I have a few spools that are empty to repurpose. It looks like your spool is 3D printed. I do have a printer and could make my own, thanks for the idea.
> View attachment 7701774


Very nice! Wish I could find a deal like that where I'm at but for a empty spool I took some measurements of a spool I have currently and am thinking of turning one on my wood lathe. I have some hard woods I use to make duck calls with so I figured I could make a spool pretty easy.


----------



## fgignac

Somewhere on this forum there is a thread where a member measured most sizes of fishing line and compared them to halo, then put all that info in a nice table.

I thought I had bookmarked it, but I now I can't find it. It was really useful for choosing the right size of fishing line


----------



## MD Target Archer

fgignac said:


> Somewhere on this forum there is a thread where a member measured most sizes of fishing line and compared them to halo, then put all that info in a nice table.
> 
> I thought I had bookmarked it, but I now I can't find it. It was really useful for choosing the right size of fishing line


To help anyone else looking to use fishing line, I ordered everything from Amazon at about $7 a roll (109 yards). I just took the size of line advertised in mm, and converted it. Here is what I ordered from Dorisea:

15# .18mm (.007”)
40# .32mm (.0126”)
50# .36mm (.0142”)
70# .44mm (.017”)
90# .50mm (.0196”)


----------



## fgignac

MD Target Archer said:


> To help anyone else looking to use fishing line, I ordered everything from Amazon at about $7 a roll (109 yards). I just took the size of line advertised in mm, and converted it. Here is what I ordered from Dorisea:
> 
> 15# .18mm (.007”)
> 40# .32mm (.0126”)
> 50# .36mm (.0142”)
> 70# .44mm (.017”)
> 90# .50mm (.0196”)


The problem is that the threads don't lay down exactly the same way as halo so the finished diameter of the string/cable won't necessarily be the same. The member I'm talking about actually installed servings with the different sizes and measured those which makes it easier to chose the correct alternative to get the finished diameter you want


----------



## MD Target Archer

fgignac said:


> The problem is that the threads don't lay down exactly the same way as halo so the finished diameter of the string/cable won't necessarily be the same. The member I'm talking about actually installed servings with the different sizes and measured those which makes it easier to chose the correct alternative to get the finished diameter you want


Cool, thank you for the heads up. I ordered various sizes for that reason. What I ended up ordering was still cheaper than me wasting a new roll of Halo. I just need to make a bunch of practice strings, to get familiar with the process. I intend to use the good stuff sparingly.


----------



## fgignac

MD Target Archer said:


> Cool, thank you for the heads up. I ordered various sizes for that reason. What I ended up ordering was still cheaper than me wasting a new roll of Halo. I just need to make a bunch of practice strings, to get familiar with the process. I intend to use the good stuff sparingly.



I don't have experience with halo, but I have been using powergrip on my cables and fishing line on the string.

I find the fishing line lays down much nicer than the powergrip and have had no problem with durability so far. On my next set I will be using the fishing line even on the cables to see how it holds up. My bottom cam is tough on serving so it will be a good test


----------



## Texashunter07

Here is that post yall are talking about. Dewboy gives a full breakdown









What Braided fishing line have you found to be most like...


I know there have been people experimenting with Braided spectra fishing line and was wondering which brand and particular braid has been found to be most like Halo .014. I am NOT interested in the ones that are more flat than round. I am most interested in actual experience, not Brand-X...




www.archerytalk.com


----------



## automan26

A good friend of mine and a very talented designer from Singapore hooked up my son with a file for printing spools. I'll try to find the file, but if I can't, here's a pic of the printed part. Note how it is constructed from two identical, interlocking halves. This allows you to print several halves and combine them into a 2-part single spool. If you have access to a 3D printer, you can design and print an endless supply of empty spools.

Let me stress that this design is not of my creation; it's a product that I got from a friend. I'll try to find his contact info and get a link to his file.

Automan


----------



## fgignac

Texashunter07 said:


> Here is that post yall are talking about. Dewboy gives a full breakdown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Braided fishing line have you found to be most like...
> 
> 
> I know there have been people experimenting with Braided spectra fishing line and was wondering which brand and particular braid has been found to be most like Halo .014. I am NOT interested in the ones that are more flat than round. I am most interested in actual experience, not Brand-X...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.archerytalk.com



That's exactly the thread I was talking about.

Thanks!


----------



## fgignac

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7702383
> 
> View attachment 7702382
> 
> View attachment 7702381
> 
> 
> A good friend of mine and a very talented designer from Singapore hooked up my son with a file for printing spools. I'll try to find the file, but if I can't, here's a pic of the printed part. Note how it is constructed from two identical, interlocking halves. This allows you to print several halves and combine them into a 2-part single spool. If you have access to a 3D printer, you can design and print an endless supply of empty spools.
> 
> Let me stress that this design is not of my creation; it's a product that I got from a friend. I'll try to find his contact info and get a link to his file.
> 
> Automan



That would be great Automan! I haven't been able to find a source of empty spools at a reasonable cost.


----------



## 138104

fgignac said:


> That would be great Automan! I haven't been able to find a source of empty spools at a reasonable cost.


Message Axo24 here on AT. He sells spools of halo he spools from bulk, so maybe he can help.


----------



## 138104

I seem to be building more crossbow strings than compounds these days. While they are built the same as compound bows, double serving for crossbows like Tenpoints stresses me out. I typically get slippage of the bottom layer as I near the end. Does anyone have any suggestions to make my life easier? I’ve backed off tension for the top layer, but feel it may separate prematurely. I’ll know in a week or so how my latest attempt works out.

Here’s what I currently do. I use .018 PowerGrip for the base layer and apply clockwise left to right. Then, I start my top layer of .036 Angel Majesty on the string, wrap 10 times, and tighten it down so it butts against the end of my bottom layer. I apply the top layer clockwise right to left. Is there a better way to do this? Is there better material? I have PG in .009, . 014, and .018. I also have AM in .026 and .036.


----------



## Gene1

Thanks for the info and just ordered some for end serving. Now I have to fab the 2 post arm to make it a 2 or 3 post jig so can use stretcher with it. Maybe just fab 2 - 2 post arms and attach it to stretcher so both sides can be end served without switching strings around.
I’m using the length formula from here and works great. For 4 post calculations what your using?

I found the bloodline calculator and is a little different twist and length for 2 post jig. Less twist and shorter makes sense.


----------



## fgignac

Perry24 said:


> Message Axo24 here on AT. He sells spools of halo he spools from bulk, so maybe he can help.


Thanks for the tip. I know I can get them from 60x as well. The main problem being that I am in Canada, so shipping from the US makes it pretty expensive. I plan on getting some from 60x next time to need to place an order there. But I have a buddy that's got a 3d printer. So if I could just get him to make me some that would be simpler


----------



## Petrus

Hello.
Started shooting bow about a year ago and have a lot to learn, and this site really have a lot of good info for a newbe like me. 
Started reading this thread and really got inspired. You all have a lot of knowledge that I like to pick up. The jig is getting there, it will not look like yours unfortunately, but hopefully it can make strings. Only got through about 1000 post and way to impatient to read the next 8000 before I order string material. I promise I will read the whole thread. 
So what should I get. There is 452X,B99,X99, Vec99 I am a bit confused, what would you recommend?

Brgds


----------



## automan26

It's great that you are joining the addiction. Glad to have you aboard.

I usually suggest 452x for those who are just starting out. It's a solid and well-proven material that can stand up to anything you might expect from a string. Some of the other materials are very good, but you may want to have a bit more experience before jumping in.

452x is a great material to learn on.

I've been building strings for years and my last few sets have been 452x.


Automan


----------



## Petrus

Perfect, thank you very much. Then I will start with that.

Do you use brass nocks with crimp plastic to build the speed nocks?

I have got a lot of questions, but will start ordering materials and do some testing 

Petrus


----------



## Gene1

I’m just curious why would one need more experience before using other strings?

I don’t recommend mixing different type on the same string.

Research and ask questions and pick your poison.

I jumped in with 2 different color spools of X99 now I got 9 colors of X99. My daughter got me 3 spools for Christmas.  . It gets expensive because you can just whip out a new mix color string anytime you want and want more colors.
If you can’t decide which color scheme just make 3 different ones and put on your bow to decide. Yes you will get lots of looks and comments.

I just started using sanders noks. Now I see they have Speed noks. Ahhh!


----------



## automan26

Due to the fact that some materials are slicker, it can make them a bit more challenging for a newbie to work with. Some of the newer materials don't work as well with the formula as 452x. I remember that when Fury was available it tended to come out a bit shorter (3/16") when twisted up than 452x. 452x often winds up a lot closer to the target length after twisting and stretching than some of the others. Other materials do not bind the strands together as well as 452x when removed from the jig.

I just think 452x is a great material for getting one's feet under him when first starting out.


Automan


----------



## Petrus

I will start out and expand. 
This will be like when I started reloading my own ammunition. Plan was to save moneyon that, but there was so many bullets and powder to try that I did not save a penny. Have alot of fun with it though 

Petrus


----------



## rapids

Petrus said:


> Perfect, thank you very much. Then I will start with that.
> 
> Do you use brass nocks with crimp plastic to build the speed nocks?
> 
> I have got a lot of questions, but will start ordering materials and do some testing
> 
> Petrus


The last threads I built for my Elite E35 I experimented with the placement and number of brass nocks. When I found the right place I then covered them with peep tubing. I built those threads 2 1/2 years ago and they are still going strong. I also use Pine Ridge Archery Nitro Buttons. So, IMO, it’s just a personal preference.


----------



## Petrus

Thanks. Even more to play with. Just have to finish work and get home and play 😎


----------



## Texashunter07

Turned a couple of spools on my lathe this evening. Now to thread them up with some of that fishing line and do some practice!


----------



## Gene1

Just finished making this.
Almost ready to try served ends.


----------



## rapids

Looks great……built like a tank!


----------



## Gene1

Thanks!


----------



## Texashunter07

Gene1 said:


> Just finished making this.
> Almost ready to try served ends.
> View attachment 7707899
> View attachment 7707900


That looks like a great idea! I have been thinking about something similar but I like the rebar idea. Those things sure look stout!


----------



## Gene1

To get perfect spacing and vertical post. I used a wood temple. I pressed in the roller pin to the rebar first and drill the wood to the spacing I wanted. Then place on steel and weld.


----------



## Binary cam man

Infinite edge string and cable advice please. I have 4 of them. 1 for each grandchild. I know from the factory,the string is 20 strands and the cables are 22. I don’t like the cable strand count Of the cables. I have 452x and bcyx. I’m thinking about putting 24 in the cables 452x. Or 22 in string and 24 in the cables of bcyx. Any advice would be deeply appreciated. Thanks! Also serving sizes will help.


----------



## Binary cam man

The reason being, I don’t want to waist materials. Too expensive now!


----------



## Gene1

All done. Setup on short kindoff.


----------



## Gene1

Binary cam man said:


> Infinite edge string and cable advice please. I have 4 of them. 1 for each grandchild. I know from the factory,the string is 20 strands and the cables are 22. I don’t like the cable strand count Of the cables. I have 452x and bcyx. I’m thinking about putting 24 in the cables 452x. Or 22 in string and 24 in the cables of bcyx. Any advice would be deeply appreciated. Thanks! Also serving sizes will help.


What don’t you like about strand count on stock strings? Your strand count will be different between different strings used. Some strands are thinner and will required more strands per string.


----------



## Binary cam man

Gene1 said:


> What don’t you like about strand count on stock strings? Your strand count will be different between different strings used. Some strands are thinner and will required more strands per string.


Ok thanks.


----------



## Texashunter07

Gene1 said:


> All done. Setup on short kindoff.
> View attachment 7708640


Did you build that yourself? If so what size pneumatic piston did you use? I was thinking about this other day as well after looking at a bap string stretcher.


----------



## fgignac

Binary cam man said:


> Infinite edge string and cable advice please. I have 4 of them. 1 for each grandchild. I know from the factory,the string is 20 strands and the cables are 22. I don’t like the cable strand count Of the cables. I have 452x and bcyx. I’m thinking about putting 24 in the cables 452x. Or 22 in string and 24 in the cables of bcyx. Any advice would be deeply appreciated. Thanks! Also serving sizes will help.


Be careful you don't increase finished cable diameter too much or you will have trouble routing the cable to the peg on the cam. Tight spaces on those cams


----------



## Gene1

It’s $17 cheaper now.
I built the whole jig.
Attached shows pressure required for what tension. You can calculated that tension with diameter of piston. Larger diameter less pressure required. Use back to back kindoff or bolt down on bench. Kindoff will fold under the high tension since it’s that high up.


----------



## Binary cam man

Hi AUTOMAN and HUNTINSTER. Hope you guys are well! It’s been 8 years! I need some help. Please check out post 8710. Thanks. Buy the way, my process is still spot on. Never have to twist a shooting string. Thanks to you and automan. Hope you can help!


----------



## Binary cam man

fgignac said:


> Be careful you don't increase finished cable diameter too much or you will have trouble routing the cable to the peg on the cam. Tight spaces on those cams


Thanks. I do understand this.


----------



## Texashunter07

Gene1 said:


> It’s $17 cheaper now.
> I built the whole jig.
> Attached shows pressure required for what tension. You can calculated that tension with diameter of piston. Larger diameter less pressure required. Use back to back kindoff or bolt down on bench. Kindoff will fold under the high tension since it’s that high up.
> View attachment 7708751
> View attachment 7708757
> View attachment 7708758


Dang that aint bad. Only 80psi get you 350 lbs i just got one of the el cheapo jigs from automan but maybe after building a few sets i will upgrade and build one of these. Ive had some ideas as far as how to set one up but would like to get my process down first to know what would work and what wouldnt.


----------



## automan26

Texashunter07 said:


> " ...i just got one of the el cheapo jigs from automan but maybe after building a few sets i will upgrade and build one of these.."


This is great.... The purpose of the El-Cheap-O is to help guys get a taste of string building, then possibly bump things up once they get totally addicted.

Automan


----------



## Gene1

Becareful. It’s a worm hole but lots of fun. I was happy with my tag ends strings for the past few years. Then just read about the fishing lines got me thinking. I want to try serving loops. So off to another path. Sure glad I have an empty spool.


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> This is great.... The purpose of the El-Cheap-O is to help guys get a taste of string building, then possibly bump things up once they get totally addicted.
> 
> Automan


If you have time,please read posts 8710 and 8718 thanks.


----------



## automan26

It's great to hear from you again...It's been a long time.

Those bows are not as abusive to strings and cables, so you can get by with fewer strands and still be safe. I would have no problems with using the factory strand count on these bows.

If you want to up the strand count on the cables, I'd recommend 22 stands of 452x. That should give you a bit more strength without increasing the thickness of the cable excessively. 22 strands on the string should also be fine. I've done that on bows with much higher poundage and everything worked fine.

24 strands of BCYx on the string is what many are using, but 22 strands will be just fine. Your center serving thickness for both materials will depend upon your desired nock fit. That may take a bit of experimenting, but I would start with .018 Powergrip and go from there. Since those bows don't punish the servings like other bows, you can go with smaller diameter end servings and you will be good to go. .014 Powergrip might be just what you need.

Bottom line..... I would have no problem with using 22 strands of either material on both string materials with a .018 center serving and a .014 end serving.

Other may disagree and I invite them chime in with their input.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> It's great to hear from you again...It's been a long time.
> 
> Those bows are not as abusive to strings and cables, so you can get by with fewer strands and still be safe. I would have no problems with using the factory strand count on these bows.
> 
> If you want to up the strand count on the cables, I'd recommend 22 stands of 452x. That should give you a bit more strength without increasing the thickness of the cable excessively. 22 strands on the string should also be fine. I've done that on bows with much higher poundage and everything worked fine.
> 
> 24 strands of BCYx on the string is what many are using, but 22 strands will be just fine. Your center serving thickness for both materials will depend upon your desired nock fit. That may take a bit of experimenting, but I would start with .018 Powergrip and go from there. Since those bows don't punish the servings like other bows, you can go with smaller diameter end servings and you will be good to go. .014 Powergrip might be just what you need.
> 
> Bottom line..... I would have no problem with using 22 strands of either material on both string materials with a .018 center serving and a .014 end serving.
> 
> Other may disagree and I invite them chime in with their input.
> 
> Automan


Great! I am looking for ideas. With these little guys bows I’m dealing with 20 DL. The MODS are hitting the cables right on the corners and destroying the servings. Also dealing with the little guys, they slam on the string stops. I have halo and PG for these areas, but I’m not sure it will work. These cables from the factory are 22 strands. I’m not happy with that. 5on one side 6 on the other. What are your feelings on this. It might just be me? Hope you are well! Thanks.


----------



## automan26

If the stops are hitting on the edge of the cable, try straightening the cams by using a bit of yoke tuning. I'll bet you can fix it with a couple of twists on the yoke leg opposite the draw stop.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> If the stops are hitting on the edge of the cable, try straightening the cams by using a bit of yoke tuning. I'll bet you can fix it with a couple of twists on the yoke leg opposite the draw stop.
> 
> Automan


The stops are good. The modules, because of the short draw length, is destroying the serving on the cables.


----------



## fgignac

Binary cam man said:


> The stops are good. The modules, because of the short draw length, is destroying the serving on the cables.


Yeah these bows are hell on cables at the short draw lengths.

Not sure what can be done about it though


----------



## Binary cam man

fgignac said:


> Yeah these bows are hell on cables at the short draw lengths.
> 
> Not sure what can be done about it though


Yes. That is why I’m asking. Hopefully someone with experience with short draw lengths on these bows will chime in. Thanks.


----------



## Binary cam man

Binary cam man said:


> Yes. That is why I’m asking. Hopefully someone with experience with short draw lengths on these bows will chime in. Thanks.


Wow 8 years later and this forum is sleeping. Can’t see something as great as string building to just go to sleep. I’m use to figuring out my own problems. I talk talk in my sleep. LOL.


----------



## automan26

Binary cam man said:


> Wow 8 years later and this forum is sleeping. Can’t see something as great as string building to just go to sleep. I’m use to figuring out my own problems. I talk talk in my sleep. LOL.


It's great to have you back with us again.

While it's true that we've slowed down a bit, it's awesome that this thread still has life after all these years. On other forums, guys complain if someone drags up something that is 3 years old. Huntinsker started this thread in 2013 and it's still going. That has to be an AT record. 

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> It's great to have you back with us again.
> 
> While it's true that we've slowed down a bit, it's awesome that this thread still has life after all these years. On other forums, guys complain if someone drags up something that is 3 years old. Huntinsker started this thread in 2013 and it's still going. That has to be an AT record.
> 
> Automan


Automan it’s great you are still here and reading! Haven’t heard from HUNTINSTER. Hope he is ok! Anyway back to string making. I was thinking. If I cut the strand count in the cables to 20, instead of 22, and use 18 power grip. It would give me even strands in the yoke and make up for the diameter at the module. Trying not to waist material. What do you think?


----------



## Binary cam man

Binary cam man said:


> Automan it’s great you are still here and reading! Haven’t heard from HUNTINSTER. Hope he is ok! Anyway back to string making. I was thinking. If I cut the strand count in the cables to 20, instead of 22, and use 18 power grip. It would give me even strands in the yoke and make up for the diameter at the module. Trying not to waist material. What do you think?


Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. BY! The end is near! Time to go!


----------



## automan26

I think it's worth a try. 

Huntinsker is still around. In fact he's here quite often.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> I think it's worth a try.
> 
> Huntinsker is still around. In fact he's here quite often.
> 
> Automan


I have to apologize. I just counted the strands in the cables.22 11 in each yoke. It’s been awhile.combined with old age. I’m good now. Thanks. Say hello to HUNTINSTER for me. I have 4 sets to make. Don’t know when I’ll be back here. Thanks.


----------



## fgignac

automan26 said:


> It's great to have you back with us again.
> 
> While it's true that we've slowed down a bit, it's awesome that this thread still has life after all these years. On other forums, guys complain if someone drags up something that is 3 years old. Huntinsker started this thread in 2013 and it's still going. That has to be an AT record.
> 
> Automan


The thread might not be as active as it used to be. But I'm still jazzed whenever I get a notification about a new post in it


----------



## 138104

Binary cam man said:


> Infinite edge string and cable advice please. I have 4 of them. 1 for each grandchild. I know from the factory,the string is 20 strands and the cables are 22. I don’t like the cable strand count Of the cables. I have 452x and bcyx. I’m thinking about putting 24 in the cables 452x. Or 22 in string and 24 in the cables of bcyx. Any advice would be deeply appreciated. Thanks! Also serving sizes will help.


What serving material do you have? 

Personally, I would just do 20 and 22 strands of 452X. What concerns you about factory strand count?


----------



## Binary cam man

Perry24 said:


> What serving material do you have?
> 
> Personally, I would just do 20 and 22 strands of 452X. What concerns you about factory strand count?





Perry24 said:


> What serving material do you have?
> 
> Personally, I would just do 20 and 22 strands of 452X. What concerns you about factory strand count?


Hi. I’m sorry I miscounted the strands in the cables. Yes 11 and 11 in each yoke leg. The problem is on the factory cables, at the modules, the serving is being torn up due to the low draw draw lengths. 20 inches. I hear it is common. I thought maybe someone has experience with this and could give me advice with my build. As I don’t want to waist material. Serving I have halo .014,power grip .018 and halo .021 which I think would be too large. I am going to use the halo .014 and see if it works out. Hoping octane used 3d and that’s the problem. Seems at the modules the serving separation, when looking at the strand , looks flat. So it didn’t dig in like halo. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Mordekyle

automan26 said:


> It's great to hear from you again...It's been a long time.
> 
> Those bows are not as abusive to strings and cables, so you can get by with fewer strands and still be safe. I would have no problems with using the factory strand count on these bows.
> 
> If you want to up the strand count on the cables, I'd recommend 22 stands of 452x. That should give you a bit more strength without increasing the thickness of the cable excessively. 22 strands on the string should also be fine. I've done that on bows with much higher poundage and everything worked fine.
> 
> 24 strands of BCYx on the string is what many are using, but 22 strands will be just fine. Your center serving thickness for both materials will depend upon your desired nock fit. That may take a bit of experimenting, but I would start with .018 Powergrip and go from there. Since those bows don't punish the servings like other bows, you can go with smaller diameter end servings and you will be good to go. .014 Powergrip might be just what you need.
> 
> Bottom line..... I would have no problem with using 22 strands of either material on both string materials with a .018 center serving and a .014 end serving.
> 
> Other may disagree and I invite them chime in with their input.
> 
> Automan


I think I did 24 strands on cables and 22 on the string for the kids’ Diamond Prism bows. Works fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

Mordekyle said:


> I think I did 24 strands on cables and 22 on the string for the kids’ Diamond Prism bows. Works fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yes. That sounds good with bcy x.


----------



## William.Gib

MD Target Archer said:


> For those that are using fishing line, can you share brand and type please? I want to practice, and this sounds cheaper than wasting a $35 roll of halo. Thanks in advance.


This is what I used it's kinda a little slick no bad and holds really well the other one looks like they or getting the hint tho I'm going try it you can get it on serving rolls of 150 ft


----------



## William.Gib

William.Gib said:


> This is what I used it's kinda a little slick no bad and holds really well the other one looks like they or getting the hint tho I'm going try it you can get it on serving rolls of 150 ft


----------



## Binary cam man

I was always curious if Japan had better quality than China. I experimented with fishing line years ago. I found that the 40 pound ,4 strand will fit the cam tracks well. Still haven’t used Japanese line. Let me know how it compares.


----------



## 138104

Binary cam man said:


> Hi. I’m sorry I miscounted the strands in the cables. Yes 11 and 11 in each yoke leg. The problem is on the factory cables, at the modules, the serving is being torn up due to the low draw draw lengths. 20 inches. I hear it is common. I thought maybe someone has experience with this and could give me advice with my build. As I don’t want to waist material. Serving I have halo .014,power grip .018 and halo .021 which I think would be too large. I am going to use the halo .014 and see if it works out. Hoping octane used 3d and that’s the problem. Seems at the modules the serving separation, when looking at the strand , looks flat. So it didn’t dig in like halo. Thanks for your help.


You should be fine with .014 Halo.


----------



## Binary cam man

Perry24 said:


> You should be fine with .014 Halo.


Thanks. That’s what I thought. I’ve heard so much about power grip .014 also. So I’m going to grab a spool also. I have 4 sets to build. With these short draw lengths,the servings are being torn up at the modules . 20 inch dl. So stay with the halo or try the power grip too?


----------



## AzureSkydiver

I've heard that Angel Majesty (from Japan) is nearly indestructible. The question is whether it comes in small enough size for what you need.


----------



## eja

I'm sure the answer is buried in this thread somewhere, but where is the best place to get speed noks and shrink tubing?
Tia.


----------



## Binary cam man

AzureSkydiver said:


> I've heard that Angel Majesty (from Japan) is nearly indestructible. The question is whether it comes in small enough size for what you need.


Thanks. Yes angel majesty is strong. Usually used for center servings. Angel majesty comes .016,.018 and .021. And larger. Angel majesty is dyneeema intwined with monofilament. I suspect braided is the way to go. But that doesn’t mean if braided doesn’t work out I won’t give it a try.


----------



## Binary cam man

eja said:


> I'm sure the answer is buried in this thread somewhere, but where is the best place to get speed noks and shrink tubing?
> Tia.


Saunders speed nocks.Try eBay. Shrink tubing also.


----------



## rapids

I actually use .015 Angel Majesty for my end servings. Holds well on those tight bend areas on my cams.


----------



## Binary cam man

rapids said:


> I actually use .015 Angel Majesty for my end servings. Holds well on those tight bend areas on my cams.


I was a little concerned because it contains monofilament. I wanted to use it on cables where it makes contact with the modules. I have 4 sets to make. Grandkids bows. All the same bows. I think they came from the factory with 3d on the cables. I’m going to try halo first. .014 I have plenty. I will get a spool of .015 angel majesty. Thanks.


----------



## SamT

Binary cam man said:


> I was a little concerned because it contains monofilament.....


I think in this instance, monofilament is referring to that it has a single-filament (mono) of polyester. 

The description from the Angel-direct website says: 
"ASB Majesty Serving - A braided serving made by knitting IZANAS [emoji2400](Dyneema) multifilament and polyester monofilament with excellent shape stability into a circular shape using a unique manufacturing method. The non-deformable circular serving wraps around the string like a wedge, so it has the characteristics of "not slipping" , "not falling apart" , and "hard to crush" "

Hope this helps. 



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

SamT said:


> I think in this instance, monofilament is referring to that it has a single-filament (mono) of polyester.
> 
> The description from the Angel-direct website says:
> "ASB Majesty Serving - A braided serving made by knitting IZANAS [emoji2400](Dyneema) multifilament and polyester monofilament with excellent shape stability into a circular shape using a unique manufacturing method. The non-deformable circular serving wraps around the string like a wedge, so it has the characteristics of "not slipping" , "not falling apart" , and "hard to crush" "
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Hi SamT hope you’re well. Thanks for the information. That is interesting reading. Not sure I want to deal with polyester. But the part not slipping, not falling apart and hard to crush has me wondering.I never used this before. Have you? Is there a learning curve? Thanks again.


----------



## SamT

Bcm, it's as advertised. Tough stuff. Grips very well.

I've used 0.015" on cam servings and 0.036" on crossbow center servings.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

SamT said:


> Bcm, it's as advertised. Tough stuff. Grips very well.
> 
> I've used 0.015" on cam servings and 0.036" on crossbow center servings.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Thanks . I’ll give it a try. Hopefully I can find it at a decent price.


----------



## AzureSkydiver

Fulcrum Archery has pretty good prices for Angel Majesty servings and strings. Selection maybe limited, though.

To add to @SamT 's testimonial, I've only been using AM as a center serving for recurve the past few months. It's amazingly slick. I have a love-hate relationship with it. I love how slick it is under my tab. I hate how I have to resort to using relatively tight nail knots when tying on movable nocks on it.


----------



## automan26

Half spool automan.stl


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





Here's the link to the file to 3D printed spools. The spool is constructed from two identical halves. This is an awesome spool. Print a bunch for yourself.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

SamT said:


> Bcm, it's as advertised. Tough stuff. Grips very well.
> 
> I've used 0.015" on cam servings and 0.036" on crossbow center servings.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Hi I am having a problem finding angel majesty .015. Lancaster is out of it. When I did find it,it’s off of a bulk spool. Should I trust this? 36.88 for 131 yards.


----------



## SamT

Should be ok as long as you get the quantity they are advertising. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

SamT said:


> Should be ok as long as you get the quantity they are advertising.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Thanks. This is a new material for me. Is there anyway to identify it?


----------



## SamT

Off hand I don't know of any way other than comparing it with other servings such as Halo, 3D, PowerGrip, etc.

Perhaps others on here may have some tips for that.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

SamT said:


> Off hand I don't know of any way other than comparing it with other servings such as Halo, 3D, PowerGrip, etc.
> 
> Perhaps others on here may have some tips for that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Thanks. Emailed Lancaster to find out when it will be back in stock. This way I will receive a marked spool.


----------



## Mjrhunter

Ok. One question. Do you put your twist in the string to get to correct length before or after you serve the ends?


----------



## fgignac

Mjrhunter said:


> Ok. One question. Do you put your twist in the string to get to correct length before or after you serve the ends?


Using tag end loops I:


form end loops
add appropriate number of twists
stretch at 350lbs for a couple of hours
rest over night
measure at 100lbs and add/remove twists as necessary
tension to 350lbs and do servings.
rest a couple hours
final measure at 100lbs and add/remove twists if necessary


----------



## Huntinsker

Mjrhunter said:


> Ok. One question. Do you put your twist in the string to get to correct length before or after you serve the ends?


Have to twist before serving. Typically my process puts the piece about 1/16" short before serving so that when it's stretched to serve and then compressed by the serving, it's usually about perfect length after serving. Typically within a twist anyway. Always check length again after serving though.


----------



## Binary cam man

Huntinsker said:


> Have to twist before serving. Typically my process puts the piece about 1/16" short before serving so that when it's stretched to serve and then compressed by the serving, it's usually about perfect length after serving. Typically within a twist anyway. Always check length again after serving though.


Hi Huntinsker. Great to hear from you again. Hope you are well. I have 4 grandchildren. So 4 bows lol. I’m in the process of making 4sets. Getting back to Mjrhunter, we know he needs to make practice strings. To get his process right. 30,60.90. He can use fishing line to keep the cost down. And every time you switch string materials , you have to do it again. To get your formulas. Start a book for future reference. That’s where I had problems in the beginning. I’m amazed how long this forum has been around. Maybe another 10 years should do it. LOL.


----------



## Binary cam man

Mjrhunter said:


> Ok. One question. Do you put your twist in the string to get to correct length before or after you serve the ends?


I never twist the shooting string. On cables only the legs. Make practice strings. One 30 inches. One 60 inches and one90 inches. This should cover most bows. Do the 60 lunch first. Use the formula to find length and number of twists. Lay it out. Twist and stretch. Let it relax. Measure at 100 lbs. You should be at 60 inches. If not don’t worry. Proceed to serve. Bring the jig up to 300 lbs. You can use fishing line to keep the cost down. Serve like a shooting string. Both ends ,center and string stop. Let it relax. Measure at 100 lbs. if you are too long, subtract that number from your formula. If you are too short, add to your formula what you need to make it the right length. Now you can make a usable shooting string. No peep rotation. Always write this information in a book for future reference. And the string material for this formula. Each string material 452x ,x99 etc. will act differently. So you will always be making test strings and writing it in your book. There maybe people who don’t agree. This is just my process. Hope this helps.


----------



## William.Gib

Binary cam man said:


> Thanks. That’s what I thought. I’ve heard so much about power grip .014 also. So I’m going to grab a spool also. I have 4 sets to build. With these short draw lengths,the servings are being torn up at the modules . 20 inch dl. So stay with the halo or try the power grip too?


Power grip is amazing stuff man if any body knows bowtec on the 38 has bad turns and I have found that power grip is awesome for this I think it stands up to halo to be honest


----------



## William.Gib

15 tou


AzureSkydiver said:


> I've heard that Angel Majesty (from Japan) is nearly indestructible. The question is whether it comes in small enough size for what you need.


15 thousands is the smallest they go I think


----------



## AzureSkydiver

Read 60x Custom Strings PowerGrip Review. They love it. Just take heed of their finding that it seems to run a little larger and doesn't compress like other servings do so plan accordingly.


----------



## Binary cam man

William.Gib said:


> 15 tou
> 
> 15 thousands is the smallest they go I think


Just received some.015. Compared it to halo.014. The Angel majesty looks thinner. Shouldn’t be a problem. I have .018 and .021 coming also. To try on center servings. Im thinking about trying their string material. Found it for $26.37. 250m/820ft. Strand diameter.016. Quality products come out of Japan. Good price for people starting out. Do you have experience with the string material?


----------



## AzureSkydiver

I only make recurve strings. Here's an Angel Majesty 2-color I made for friend:









Just like others have observed: when burnished, the resin in the string material binds together and makes a beautiful looking string that looks almost like a steel cable. In the photo above that was with just one burnishing pass after I just finished twisting. It looks even better when doing the final burnishing once brace height is established on a bow -- almost like it was just one solid extruded piece. The string can stand up by itself. I was loathed to have to fold it up. Re-burnishing after re-stringing will bring back the cable like quality.

While working on the string, the individual strands become fluffy like cotton candy when handled roughly -- for example, cutting with a dull knife or dull pair of scissors; or using the string for burnishing.

I've read that as the string gets worn out, it starts becoming fluffy. I've not yet worn out my AM string to validate that observation.

As for shooting with it, I like it more than 652 or D97. Somehow it feels as fast or faster than the D97, but quieter and softer than the 652 shooting on the same bow. I've not broken out my chronograph to actually measure, but arrows were landing a little bit higher than where arrows were going for D97 at the same sight mark. Note that I'm a newbie shooting alone in my backyard so take what I say with a huge grain of salt.


----------



## Binary cam man

AzureSkydiver said:


> I only make recurve strings. Here's an Angel Majesty 2-color I made for friend:
> View attachment 7717338
> 
> 
> Just like others have observed: when burnished, the resin in the string material binds together and makes a beautiful looking string that looks almost like a steel cable. In the photo above that was with just one burnishing pass after I just finished twisting. It looks even better when doing the final burnishing once brace height is established on a bow -- almost like it was just one solid extruded piece. The string can stand up by itself. I was loathed to have to fold it up. Re-burnishing after re-stringing will bring back the cable like quality.
> 
> While working on the string, the individual strands become fluffy like cotton candy when handled roughly -- for example, cutting with a dull knife or dull pair of scissors; or using the string for burnishing.
> 
> I've read that as the string gets worn out, it starts becoming fluffy. I've not yet worn out my AM string to validate that observation.
> 
> As for shooting with it, I like it more than 652 or D97. Somehow it feels as fast or faster than the D97, but quieter and softer than the 652 shooting on the same bow. I've not broken out my chronograph to actually measure, but arrows were landing a little bit higher than where arrows were going for D97 at the same sight mark. Note that I'm a newbie shooting alone in my backyard so take what I say with a huge grain of salt.


I like it. I have heard what you are saying before. I am going to buy some. But I have some questions. How many strings can you get out of a spool? And when you burnish the string, do you get little balls when you release the tension? Thanks.


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## AzureSkydiver

It's going to depend on how long the strings you are making, number of strands per string, and your technique in making your strings.

The spools are marked as 250m which is about 820 ft. The way I make my strings, I only waste about 12-16" per string -- the parts I use to hold down the beginning and ends of the endless loop to my jig. I don't do tag end servings -- I use 3D for my end servings.

I've tried that first burnishing pass under only about 20 lbs of tension (like from the picture above), as well as while under 200 lbs of tension. In both cases, no balls or lumps after releasing the tension after that initial burnishing pass.

I only do the that twisting and initial burnishing pass because I want the string to look good before I first shoot it. Then I set my brace height, shoot a few arrows, then do final burnishing.

If you follow the official instructions for it, you supposed to shoot it first a few times, then twist to appropriate brace height, shoot a few more times, then finally burnish vigorously with Paracord while on the bow. There's a Facebook video somewhere. I'll link to it if I find it again.

I suspect that the shooting steps are a way to get the individual strand tensions to equalize first before the strands get locked in by the resin. I feel that I accomplish most of the equalization during my initial build, as well as my stretching steps -- most recurve string build instructions I've read/seen don't include any explicit stretching, unlike compound bow string builds. All the stretching happens on the bow.

Update:
Here's the video link in Facebook.
It's interesting that in that video, they just pluck instead of shooting the string, twist to brace height, and then burnish with paracord.


----------



## Binary cam man

AzureSkydiver said:


> It's going to depend on how long the strings you are making, number of strands per string, and your technique in making your strings.
> 
> The spools are marked as 250m which is about 820 ft. The way I make my strings, I only waste about 12-16" per string -- the parts I use to hold down the beginning and ends of the endless loop to my jig. I don't do tag end servings -- I use 3D for my end servings.
> 
> I've tried that first burnishing pass under only about 20 lbs of tension (like from the picture above), as well as while under 200 lbs of tension. In both cases, no balls or lumps after releasing the tension after that initial burnishing pass.
> 
> I only do the that twisting and initial burnishing pass because I want the string to look good before I first shoot it. Then I set my brace height, shoot a few arrows, then do final burnishing.
> 
> If you follow the official instructions for it, you supposed to shoot it first a few times, then twist to appropriate brace height, shoot a few more times, then finally burnish vigorously with Paracord while on the bow. There's a Facebook video somewhere. I'll link to it if I find it again.
> 
> I suspect that the shooting steps are a way to get the individual strand tensions to equalize first before the strands get locked in by the resin. I feel that I accomplish most of the equalization during my initial build, as well as my stretching steps -- most recurve string build instructions I've read/seen don't include any explicit stretching, unlike compound bow string builds. All the stretching happens on the bow.
> 
> Update:
> Here's the video link in Facebook.
> It's interesting that in that video, they just pluck instead of shooting the string, twist to brace height, and then burnish with paracord.


Did you hear bcy stoped importing Angel Majesty materials. As of 1/22. Said supply and demand issues. Customers complain about long waiting times. Maybe the competition. Angel majesty serving material is great. I think it’s better than halo. Just received center serving today. .021 royal blue. Can’t find much around anymore. Wanted black. String material same thing. Pink,blue, yellow,white. Not much around. So if this is what you use,grab what you can now. Also the price is down. Think they are looking to get rid of it. Think I’m going to get some pink. Granddaughters bow. And just to try. See what I was missing. Lol.


----------



## AzureSkydiver

Yes, I read that in passing on another thread here an AT a few months ago. I verified by reading it on BCY's website. I've been picking up Angel Majesty from Fulcrum as my funds allows.


----------



## automan26

Last evening my son called with a great idea for an archery related 3D project. He had previously printed up some very nice spools to hold serving thread. Yesterday he developed a nifty little driver tool that fits into the end of the spool then gets chucked in a drill.

I really believe that the combination of the 3D-printed spool and driver will greatly simplify the process of transfering serving thread (fishing line) from the large spool to the small spool that fits the serving bobbin.

He sent me some pics which I will post later. It looks great, but at this point it needs a bit of testing determine if it's ready to go. Here's our problem; He lives three hours away. If he mails the prototype to me and I test it, then get back to him if I find it needs a design alteration, that's going to take some time. Once he makes the alteration, he will mail it back to me for further testing and so on. Once it's right (which it probably already is) I'll post a link so that those of you who have a 3D printer can elect to print your own.

We decided it would be quicker to ask for some help from AT string builders who have printers. I would like to post a link to the file and ask others to jump onboard and print the tool and test it themselves. If it needs a modification you could either modify the file or tell us what needs to be done and my son can modify it himself.

This would give you a project and provide you with a very useful tool. I'll post pics and a link soon.

Automan


----------



## automan26

The spool should be printed using the same materials and printer settings as the driver.

From these pics I think you can see the usefulness of the driver.

Links coming soon.

Automan


----------



## automan26

Spool winder.3mf


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com













Spool winder.stl


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com













Half spool automan.stl


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





Here are 2 different links to files for the driver and 1 link to the file for the Half Spool. It takes 2 half spools to print one complete spool.


Maybe we can do some collaboration among some of the participants of this thread and come up with something very useful.

Automan


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## AzureSkydiver

Not to discourage innovation, but just curious what's wrong with just using an appropriately sized bolt, two washers, a nut, and the drill? Is the inside diameter of the spool odd enough that centering the spool on the bolt will be difficult, and an uncentered spool will wobble too much at high speed? Or is it just the inconvenience of having to put washer on the bolt, then the spool, then another washer, then tighten a nut, and then finally put on the drill, as opposed to just leaving the winder on the drill and putting the spool on the winder?


----------



## William.Gib

Binary cam man said:


> Just received some.015. Compared it to halo.014. The Angel majesty looks thinner. Shouldn’t be a problem. I have .018 and .021 coming also. To try on center servings. Im thinking about trying their string material. Found it for $26.37. 250m/820ft. Strand diameter.016. Quality products come out of Japan. Good price for people starting out. Do you have experience with the string material?


Eders archery has there serving very cheap


----------



## b0w_bender

AzureSkydiver said:


> Not to discourage innovation, but just curious what's wrong with just using an appropriately sized bolt, two washers, a nut, and the drill? Is the inside diameter of the spool odd enough that centering the spool on the bolt will be difficult, and an uncentered spool will wobble too much at high speed? Or is it just the inconvenience of having to put washer on the bolt, then the spool, then another washer, then tighten a nut, and then finally put on the drill, as opposed to just leaving the winder on the drill and putting the spool on the winder?


Ya I like innovation too but it usually kinda needs to resolve a problem? I've always used a bolt personally and it seems to work to perfection. I like the inovation it looks cool but I'm not sure it is an improvement?


----------



## Binary cam man

William.Gib said:


> Eders archery has there serving very cheap


Can you send me the link for Eders archery. I tried on google and it didn’t work well. Please and thank you. I’ve been using the Angel majesty.015 serving. Looks really nice. It’s been said the string will wear out before the serving. We shall see. I’m waiting on a spool of Angel majesty string material. (Pink) granddaughters bow. Never used this before. Definitely going to need some information on the process.


----------



## rapids

Binary cam man said:


> Can you send me the link for Eders archery. I tried on google and it didn’t work well. Please and thank you. I’ve been using the Angel majesty.015 serving. Looks really nice. It’s been said the string will wear out before the serving. We shall see. I’m waiting on a spool of Angel majesty string material. (Pink) granddaughters bow. Never used this before. Definitely going to need some information on the process.


It’s Eders.com. Then select the archery scroll down tab.


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## Binary cam man

rapids said:


> It’s Eders.com. Then select the archery scroll down tab.


Thanks. Got it to work. Found halo .014 for 23.99. Oversized spools. 150 yards. Bcy dealer. He spools his own. All colors. 6.00 shipping no matter how many you buy. Don’t know if that is a good price. But I do know that was about the price 10 years ago. Axisbowstrings.com. Like to pass things on.


----------



## Binary cam man

Binary cam man said:


> Thanks. Got it to work. Found halo .014 for 23.99. Oversized spools. 150 yards. Bcy dealer. He spools his own. All colors. 6.00 shipping no matter how many you buy. Don’t know if that is a good price. But I do know that was about the price 10 years ago. Axisbowstrings.com. Like to pass things on.


----------



## Capra

I am sure that somewhere on this page the information exists but with 440 pages I looked for a while and gave up. Is there a chart showing BCY 452X strand counts and finished diameter with different serving sizes??

I'm pretty sure the standard layout is 22 strands and .014 Halo for most strings ?....is is 24 and .014 for cables as well???


----------



## PowerLineman83

Capra said:


> I am sure that somewhere on this page the information exists but with 440 pages I looked for a while and gave up. Is there a chart showing BCY 452X strand counts and finished diameter with different serving sizes??
> 
> I'm pretty sure the standard layout is 22 strands and .014 Halo for most strings ?....is is 24 and .014 for cables as well???


24 strands all the way around for me. 2x or 3d ends for the string with Powergrip center serving. Halo(or something else braided) is what I serve my cables with, generally speaking. There are variances here and there, but this is my go to recipe for solid strings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PowerLineman83

If there is anyone here that is looking for an El Cheapo jig, message me. I have one I may be looking to move on to a new home.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## William.Gib

Binary cam man said:


> Can you send me the link for Eders archery. I tried on google and it didn’t work well. Please and thank you. I’ve been using the Angel majesty.015 serving. Looks really nice. It’s been said the string will wear out before the serving. We shall see. I’m waiting on a spool of Angel majesty string material. (Pink) granddaughters bow. Never used this before. Definitely going to need some information on the process.


Sorry just seen this


----------



## William.Gib

Binary cam man said:


> Can you send me the link for Eders archery. I tried on google and it didn’t work well. Please and thank you. I’ve been using the Angel majesty.015 serving. Looks really nice. It’s been said the string will wear out before the serving. We shall see. I’m waiting on a spool of Angel majesty string material. (Pink) granddaughters bow. Never used this before. Defieders.com - Archery Equipment and Bow Hunting Suppliesnitely going to need some information on the process.


----------



## William.Gib

Binary cam man said:


> Can you send me the link for Eders archery. I tried on google and it didn’t work well. Please and thank you. I’ve been using the Angel majesty.015 serving. Looks really nice. It’s been said the string will wear out before the serving. We shall see. I’m waiting on a spool of Angel majesty string material. (Pink) granddaughters bow. Never used this before. Definitely going to need some information on the process.


eders.com - Archery Equipment and Bow Hunting Supplies


----------



## Binary cam man

William.Gib said:


> eders.com - Archery Equipment and Bow Hunting Supplies


Got it. Thanks.


----------



## Binary cam man

Wow! It’s been 19 days since the last post. Come on people don’t let this go to waist. show your strings,ask questions,show equipment,etc. there is always something new. Maybe something that can help with the process? Please and thank you.


----------



## automan26

I've added something new to my string building. I now follow each string build with a new, matching sling.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7747836
> 
> 
> I've added something new to my string building. I now follow each string build with a new, matching sling.
> 
> Automan


Nice! Is that flo yellow strings? What material is it?


----------



## automan26

That is flo yellow Fury. I have Flo Yellow 462x on my Supra Focus. Fury was awesome stuff, I really miss it.

Automan


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> That is flo yellow Fury. I have Flo Yellow 462x on my Supra Focus. Fury was awesome stuff, I really miss it.
> 
> Automan


I never tried fury. I like it from what I see in the pictures. I still have bcy -x. 5 spools. From 8years ago. I find x to be very waxy. Can’t burnish it. get a bad case of the bumps. So I leave it ropey looking. But I do burnish, very lightly. To remove wax. I can’t remember how to send photos. I’ll figure it out. I just tried Angel majesty string material and I was still lucky enough to find serving material left around. The string material can be burnished, no problem. Bcy stopped import On this product. This stuff makes perfectly round strings. looks like plastic when burnished. Ever try AM? you would think they would bring fury back. Luckily brownells is back in business!


----------



## fmlyarcher

I'm looking to build a new string for my new bow - Black riser with granite limbs and flo-orange handle. Does anyone have a source of pictures of strings that can be filtered by colors? I'm talking pictures of actual strings, not just the computer generated image based on the colors you select. Thinking black with a thicker orange pinstripe accent rather than the standard 50/50 black/orange but I'm having trouble finding a place with decent pics to browse through with ideas. Thanks!


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## Binary cam man

fmlyarcher said:


> I'm looking to build a new string for my new bow - Black riser with granite limbs and flo-orange handle. Does anyone have a source of pictures of strings that can be filtered by colors? I'm talking pictures of actual strings, not just the computer generated image based on the colors you select. Thinking black with a thicker orange pinstripe accent rather than the standard 50/50 black/orange but I'm having trouble finding a place with decent pics to browse through with ideas. Thanks!


Make a small practice string till you get what you are looking for.


----------



## Gene1

Here is a few combinations I made when trying to decide.





























__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## William.Gib

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7747836
> 
> 
> I've added something new to my string building. I now follow each string build with a new, matching sling.
> 
> Automan


Man I would love to show u some of my stuff auto man I thank u all for all the help what's the reason for the droop to spin and I have been putting tension on my 4 post to do end loops I have got my strings so close but still have just very little bit that peep don't line up at rest very little is that in lay up


----------



## automan26

Does your jig have the capability to stretch the syring to 300#?

Automan


----------



## thomas.nair15

PowerLineman83 said:


> If there is anyone here that is looking for an El Cheapo jig, message me. I have one I may be looking to move on to a new home.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would be extremely interested in an El Cheapo jig.


----------



## bfittock

automan26 said:


> That is flo yellow Fury. I have Flo Yellow 462x on my Supra Focus. Fury was awesome stuff, I really miss it.
> 
> Automan


When I found out fury was no longer I purchased it anywhere i could find it iv got quite the stash of fury I love building with it best material iv used


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## bfittock

bfittock said:


> When I found out fury was no longer I purchased it anywhere i could find it iv got quite the stash of fury I love building with it best material iv used


What twist rate do you like to build with fury


----------



## William.Gib

automan26 said:


> Does your jig have the capability to stretch the syring to 300#?
> 
> Automan


O yes way more then that I could go past 1000 lbs


----------



## William.Gib

William.Gib said:


> O yes way more then that I could go past 1000 lbs


They're almost perfect as you can see here but I'm experiencing a little bit of turn at the start like at static where they're just sitting there they ain't completely perfect straight


----------



## William.Gib

William.Gib said:


> They're almost perfect as you can see here but I'm experiencing a little bit of turn at the start like at static where they're just sitting there they ain't completely perfect straight


Three different bows u can see three different sets need help I have noticed though if I don't put no pressure or just a little bit say 50 lb on my four post when I do my end loops that it seems to keep it more consistent and if I put more than that it's like you're tag ends start to pull loose so it creates uneven tension I also have a spoiler to put the string on the four post and I only run it at like maybe a 1 lb with a string comes off nice and easy but it keeps consistent tension I also have noticed if you burnish the string at like 350 it don't come out with lumps in it even at a hundred and a half if you only burnish up and down it seems not to come out with lumps I don't know if that could play into the whole situation I know there's been a lot of talk about that on here before I will have to take a video of my spinner it's built like 1Nestly off here which if I'm honest it is spinning the string toward me or that would be counterclockwise but both jig-ins are spinning at the exact same timing so it cannot add or take away Twist from the string I don't know I'm just looking for answers and I think I have come across them but I'm not sure


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## William.Gib

So I think I'm going to do some videos on YouTube it's going to be on the channel called the Gibson life I just started it about building strings cuz I just done a review on the ultra view button I have a couple few more coming out I would like some feedback if I'm doing something wrong you guys can tune into it be amazing


----------



## bfittock

William.Gib said:


> So I think I'm going to do some videos on YouTube it's going to be on the channel called the Gibson life I just started it about building strings cuz I just done a review on the ultra view button I have a couple few more coming out I would like some feedback if I'm doing something wrong you guys can tune into it be amazing


Let us know when it's out c🍻 heers


----------



## 138104

fmlyarcher said:


> I'm looking to build a new string for my new bow - Black riser with granite limbs and flo-orange handle. Does anyone have a source of pictures of strings that can be filtered by colors? I'm talking pictures of actual strings, not just the computer generated image based on the colors you select. Thinking black with a thicker orange pinstripe accent rather than the standard 50/50 black/orange but I'm having trouble finding a place with decent pics to browse through with ideas. Thanks!


Here’s a set I built.


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## William.Gib

Thank you for the inspiration I really mean I've got them down really close and I built something almost like one Nestle off of here I don't know exactly how you spell it but anyway I built something like is to where I can spend the strength by the serving goes on under high poundage you all see that when I do the video and I just want some pointers some help man we're all supposed to help one another you know and I just feel like I got it so close to not having any rotation just feel like you guys can really help me


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## automan26

Search YouTube for Ledbetter archery. There you will find a bunch of videos on just what you're looking for.

Automan


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## fmlyarcher

Perry24 said:


> Here’s a set I built.


Those look great! Thank you. I ended up doing a black string with orange pinstripes and clear serving. It looks good...not ecstatic about them but I'll keep them on for 6 months or so.


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## bfittock

Hi guys what every ones favourite twist ratio I'm using 0.75 atm I'd like the hear what you like to yous cheers 🍻


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## William.Gib

automan26 said:


> Search YouTube for Ledbetter archery. There you will find a bunch of videos on just what you're looking for.
> 
> Automan


Thank you Auto man I appreciate you buddy how are you doing


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## automan26

I'm build'n strings and bust'n Xs. Life is good.

Automan


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## William.Gib

automan26 said:


> I'm build'n strings and bust'n Xs. Life is good.
> 
> Automan


Awsome thank God for men like this ur definitely a great person Mr Auto Man


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## 138104

bfittock said:


> Hi guys what every ones favourite twist ratio I'm using 0.75 atm I'd like the hear what you like to yous cheers [emoji482]


I use .67.


----------



## FlyingWatchmake

bfittock said:


> Hi guys what every ones favourite twist ratio I'm using 0.75 atm I'd like the hear what you like to yous cheers [emoji482]


I use 0.75, mainly because I used Butch’s videos to learn from, and have too many index cards to change :-D 

It also gives me leeway to add/remove a couple to get the length dead on without affecting the look of the finished string much

T


----------



## eja

Question about end serving on Zebra strings. Anyone know what serving they use on strings? Cables? Overall quality may be lacking on zebra strings but I have had really good luck with serving around the cams. TIA


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## fgignac

Anyone on here know of a supplier for 452x in Canada or who will ship to Canada at a reasonable price. I usually order from 60X, but with the current exchange rate and increase in shipping costs I would end up paying $65 for a 1/8 spool. And that's if I don't get dinged with customs charges at the border


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## automan26

I don't know about 452x, but I think Brownell is now located in Canada. They make great stuff. Maybe it would be profitable to switch material.

Automan


----------



## fgignac

automan26 said:


> I don't know about 452x, but I think Brownell is now located in Canada. They make great stuff. Maybe it would be profitable to switch material.
> 
> Automan


Thanks for the tip. At this point I'm not yet so heavily invested in 452X that it's inconceivable to make the switch (I've only got 5 colors ).

They are actually based in Barrie, Ontario. Which is about 30min drive from where I was born

However, they don't seem to sell direct to consumer, and so far I haven't been able to find a single Canadian distributor that sells anything other than Dacron. I've written to them if there any way for me to get some, other than importing it from another country 

I remember that you really like the Fury material when they where making it. Now that it is discontinued it looks like the options are Rhino and Rampage. Do you know which one makes a good alternative to 452X.


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## fgignac

I remember back earlier in this thread there was discussion of techniques for making served end loops on a 2 post jig using some kind of string spreader. Did anyone manage to get good results doing that?

I ask because my club needs to replace a bunch of strings on their loaner recurves and I was going to offer to build them some.

Alternatively, does anyone have a good design for a 3-post mod I could add on to my El-Cheapo jig?


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## AzureSkydiver

If you have an el-cheapo, there is a one side of the BAP 4 post string jig for sale on the classifieds right now for a very good price. It'll fit on the same unistrut that your el-cheap is on. Basically create your own 3 post jig.


----------



## fgignac

AzureSkydiver said:


> If you have an el-cheapo, there is a one side of the BAP 4 post string jig for sale on the classifieds right now for a very good price. It'll fit on the same unistrut that your el-cheap is on. Basically create your own 3 post jig.


Thanks for the heads up. But once I pay for shipping to Canada, customs at the border, and the exchange rate. That would end up costing me well over $200. More than I'm looking to put into the project.

One of the disadvantages of living in Canada. Anything I get from the US ends up costing almost 2x what it's listed for


----------



## AzureSkydiver

I'm waiting for photos to upload... I'm going to post my el-cheapo themed 4 post. Give me a few minutes.


----------



## AzureSkydiver

Here's what I've done with the extra 2 feet of my Unistrut that I use for my el-cheapo:

















The long bolts are 3/8" bolts which fit nicely into the Unistrut 3/8" nuts. 

You can ignore the little screws with rubber washers I put on the sides. I was experimenting with completely abandoning my "Shooting the Stickbow" style 4 post and was copying the BAP style string holders.


----------



## AzureSkydiver

I need to explain the 1/2" center bolt a little bit. Since I don't have a drill press (yet -- I've asked Automan26 for his recommendations on what kind to get and he gave me some great advice), I knew that I may not perfectly center where I put in that 1/2" hole for the 1/2" bolt using just an electric hand drill. So I went for close to the center as I could. After the hole was drilled, then I setup the vertical posts to be equidistance from the center hole. The slots in the Unistrut made that adjustment for centering very easy.


----------



## AzureSkydiver

Anyway, my latest string build process is to do 3.75" top loop serving and 2.5" bottom loop servings on the 4 posts with just reasonable string tension like one would traditionally do with a normal endless loop 4 post string jig. Then I move the string unto the El-Cheapo to do some stretching up to about 180-200# for about 20-30 minutes. Go down to about 50# to apply twists. Back up to about 150# for a second stretching while I do some light burnishing to get the twists to look less ropey. Back down to 100# to check for length and apply or remove twists as needed. Then back up to about 150# to close up the end loops and finish off the end servings -- about 5.5"-6". I also do the center serving while its on the jig under that same tension, but I've not found much difference between doing it on the jig or on the bow.

Thank you for helping your local club!


----------



## fgignac

AzureSkydiver said:


> Anyway, my latest string build process is to do 3.75" top loop serving and 2.5" bottom loop servings on the 4 posts with just reasonable string tension like one would traditionally do with a normal endless loop 4 post string jig. Then I move the string unto the El-Cheapo to do some stretching up to about 180-200# for about 20-30 minutes. Go down to about 50# to apply twists. Back up to about 150# for a second stretching while I do some light burnishing to get the twists to look less ropey. Back down to 100# to check for length and apply or remove twists as needed. Then back up to about 150# to close up the end loops and finish off the end servings -- about 5.5"-6". I also do the center serving while its on the jig under that same tension, but I've not found much difference between doing it on the jig or on the bow.
> 
> Thank you for helping your local club!


I appreciate the help.

Mind if I pick your brain a little? So far I've only built strings with tag ends for compounds so I've got a few questions on the difference with recurves.

1. What bowstring material are you using for recurves and what strand count?

2. What serving material and size for the different applications (loops, end, center)

3. When measuring for layout, Do you have a formula you use for distance between posts? I'm assuming my compound formula won't work since the string material is different and I wouldn't be putting as many twists in a recurve string.

I know I can find all this info by searching through the forum... but since I've got you on the line...


----------



## AzureSkydiver

The strand count depends on the target bow weight and material. So far, I've been following what @Viper1 has in Appendix B of his book "Shooting the Stickbow". So far I've used the following successfully for bows in the 25#-35# draw weights:
DynaFlight 97: 12 strands
652 Specra: 16 strands

From my own experiments:
Angel Majesty: 18 strands
X-99: 20 strands

(Beware that X-99 has Vectran and is not recommended for recurves, but I found it to be an amazingly good match for my Samick Sage knock-off.)

For end-loops, so far I've been using 3D exclusively.

For center serving, I've been staying with 0.021" size for Halo and Angel Majesty. (I experimented with a few others. See my other thread about movable nocking points.)

For layout, I've had to come up with my own calculations through trial and error to account for the bending of the 3/8" bolts at the amount of tension that I like in string material while I'm still laying out and the end goal of having half a twist per inch. I layout with the posts all being co-linear, and then turn 90 degrees after layout to mark centers and then serve just the loops. For me it ended up being:

target length
plus .25" to account for posts bending as well as the non-standard 3/8" post instead of industry standard 1/4" post
plus (0.007 * number of twists).

I know others like to have a lot more twists in their strings, but I've found that to be sufficient for me cutting down on the noise.

If you watch some older recurve endless loop string building videos on YouTube, most of them don't apply any of the twists while building the string, nor any stretching while on the jig. They build the end loops and end servings as a single operation. Stretching is achieved by putting the string on the bow and pushing on the limbs supported by the knees. And then center serving is applied. Then twists are applied to get to brace height.


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## William.Gib

I have one of the videos up on Gibson life YouTube I'll be putting the other one up or I'm doing the serving when I got up now one of the four posts I asked you guys to go on there and keep me help me please also like And subscribe to anything It ant going to hurt nobody


----------



## fgignac

I've been doing some testing with serving thickness. I have made a test string, 22 strands 452X and I'm applying a few inches of different kinds of serving to measure finished thickness.

I have run into something strange when comparing 0.014 and 0.018 powergrip. My finished diameter with the 0.014 is 0.112 and the finished diameter with the 0.018 is 0.107. So the 0.18 powergrip is giving me a considerably smaller finished diameter than the 0.014. 

I have noticed that the two sizes also have a significantly different texture. The 0.014 is stiffer, and the 0.018 is much softer. Are these two threads woven differently or something. Is one a 4 ply and the other an 8 ply?

Another possibility is that I may have the wrong material. I bought these spools of powergrip off a local shop who spooled them off a bulk bobbin. So it's possible they gave me something other than powergrip and I wouldn't know since I'm just starting out have never used it before. I'm assuming that the 0.018 is correct because it seems to be the size most people use for center servings and it gives me a great nock fit. This leads me to believe that my 0.018 is giving me the right finished diameter. But I'm not sure why the 0.014 is coming out bigger.

Of course part of it could be me using uneven tension with my serving jig. But still, for the 0.014 to come out bigger than the 0.018, that would have to be a big difference in tension.

Anyone have any insight into what I'm seeing here?


----------



## 138104

fgignac said:


> I've been doing some testing with serving thickness. I have made a test string, 22 strands 452X and I'm applying a few inches of different kinds of serving to measure finished thickness.
> 
> I have run into something strange when comparing 0.014 and 0.018 powergrip. My finished diameter with the 0.014 is 0.112 and the finished diameter with the 0.018 is 0.107. So the 0.18 powergrip is giving me a considerably smaller finished diameter than the 0.014.
> 
> I have noticed that the two sizes also have a significantly different texture. The 0.014 is stiffer, and the 0.018 is much softer. Are these two threads woven differently or something. Is one a 4 ply and the other an 8 ply?
> 
> Another possibility is that I may have the wrong material. I bought these spools of powergrip off a local shop who spooled them off a bulk bobbin. So it's possible they gave me something other than powergrip and I wouldn't know since I'm just starting out have never used it before. I'm assuming that the 0.018 is correct because it seems to be the size most people use for center servings and it gives me a great nock fit. This leads me to believe that my 0.018 is giving me the right finished diameter. But I'm not sure why the 0.014 is coming out bigger.
> 
> Of course part of it could be me using uneven tension with my serving jig. But still, for the 0.014 to come out bigger than the 0.018, that would have to be a big difference in tension.
> 
> Anyone have any insight into what I'm seeing here?


Any chance you have them reversed? The .112 seems about right for .018 PG, depending on the color of the 452x and wax content. The .107 seems right for .014.


----------



## fgignac

Perry24 said:


> Any chance you have them reversed? The .112 seems about right for .018 PG, depending on the color of the 452x and wax content. The .107 seems right for .014.


Not impossible that the guy could have mixed them up when he spooled them

Is there a big difference in texture between 0.014 and 0.018 powergrip? I would have expected them to be very similar, just one bigger and one smaller. But the out of the 2 I have one is much softer to the touch and more flexible


----------



## 138104

fgignac said:


> Not impossible that the guy could have mixed them up when he spooled them
> 
> Is there a big difference in texture between 0.014 and 0.018 powergrip? I would have expected them to be very similar, just one bigger and one smaller. But the out of the 2 I have one is much softer to the touch and more flexible


PG is stiffer and abrasive feeling. Maybe he gave you a spool of halo?


----------



## fgignac

Perry24 said:


> PG is stiffer and abrasive feeling. Maybe he gave you a spool of halo?


Thanks for the information.

Based on your description, I'm thinking that the 0.014 I have is powergrip and the 0.018 is something else. Is halo softer and more flexible than powergrip? I have never used it.

Is there any chance that you have 0.014 powergrip and could measure it with calipers so that I can get an idea if it actually is 0.014? When I put calipers on what I have I'm getting about an average of 0.016 depending on where I measure it.

If what I have really is 0.014 and my servings are coming out too big it tells me that I'm not using enough tension. I'm learning this stuff through this thread and with the help you guys are giving me. But that still means a lot of trial and error. But If I at least know what materials I'm working with it makes it easier to learn from those errors


----------



## deerbum

Here is .014 and .018. They feel the same to me. I make my sets with 28 strands of fury all the way around to accommodate the .014" for the cable end. Think it's a little too thick on a 32 strand for the bowtech odb cam. Maximum thumb pressure on the thick part of calipers is .011 and .014 respectively. But with light pressure the .014 measures around .016.


----------



## fgignac

deerbum said:


> Here is .014 and .018. They feel the same to me. I make my sets with 28 strands of fury all the way around to accommodate the .014" for the cable end. Think it's a little too thick on a 32 strand for the bowtech odb cam. Maximum thumb pressure on the thick part of calipers is .011 and .014 respectively. But with light pressure the .014 measures around .016.
> View attachment 7763766


Thank you sir!

My 0.014 is measuring 0.016 with light pressure so it looks like that's right. And what I was sold as 0.018 Powergrip is actually something else.

Any way I could ask you to measure the bare string and then an area served with 0.014? I would like to know the diameter increase you are getting with the serving so I can get an idea how I am doing with my serving tension.

I am trying to make up a list of different materials and the finished diameter they add so that I can more predictably choose the appropriate material for the situation. The first set I made for my bow, I used 0.014 powergrip for the end servings. The second set I made I used 40# braided fishing line. Servings came out noticeably smaller. Because of this I ended up with less letoff which turned out to be a good thing because I actually wanted a little more holding weight. But I would like to be able to get to a result on purpose instead of my accident ;-)


----------



## AzureSkydiver

From 60x Custom Strings blog post about PowerGrip, they found it to be thicker when laid down compared to other servings. So where they normally used .021, they had to move down to .018 to get the same nock fit.


----------



## automan26

Sometimes an idea doesn't pan out, but the end result is better than the planned goal. The strings on my Supra Focus need waxing so I decided to do what any red-blooded string builder would do.... Build new ones.

I think these will be keepers, so I plan to build a matching wrist sling to go with them.









Automan


----------



## Gene1

So true. No such thing as waxing strings for string builders.
Nice colors


----------



## automan26

Honestly, I can't even find my string wax. I can't remember the last time I waxed a string.

Automan


----------



## fgignac

automan26 said:


> Sometimes an idea doesn't pan out, but the end result is better than the planned goal. The strings on my Supra Focus need waxing so I decided to do what any red-blooded string builder would do.... Build new ones.
> 
> I think these will be keepers, so I plan to build a matching wrist sling to go with them.
> View attachment 7766438
> 
> 
> Automan


I don't think I've seen that pattern before. I like it. How do you do the layup for that?


----------



## William.Gib

automan26 said:


> Honestly, I can't even find my string wax. I can't remember the last time I waxed a string.
> 
> Automan


automan a true inspiration


----------



## automan26

fgignac said:


> I don't think I've seen that pattern before. I like it. How do you do the layup for that?


That pattern is a bit deceptive. It's actually nothing more than a pinstripe made with 32 strands of Fury. Flo Yellow and Pink are the primary colors and the pins are Silver.

16 Flo Yellow
4 Pink
12 Silver

Automan


----------



## fgignac

automan26 said:


> That pattern is a bit deceptive. It's actually nothing more than a pinstripe made with 32 strands of Fury. Flo Yellow and Pink are the primary colors and the pins are Silver.
> 
> 16 Flo Yellow
> 4 Pink
> 12 Silver
> 
> Automan


That's a pretty cool effect. I'm going to have to try that


----------



## Capra

Can anyone confirm that Angel Majesty .015 only comes in Black?....

Also it seems like Lancaster has it, Are they the new importer. I know BCY is no longer importing it......


----------



## fgignac

automan26 said:


> That pattern is a bit deceptive. It's actually nothing more than a pinstripe made with 32 strands of Fury. Flo Yellow and Pink are the primary colors and the pins are Silver.
> 
> 16 Flo Yellow
> 4 Pink
> 12 Silver
> 
> Automan


So if I understand correctly. Even though the silver is a larger bundle, you are treating like pinstripes. So when you separate your colors before twisting you would have pink (4 strands) and yellow (16 strands) above and below, and then 2 silver "pinstripe" bundles (6 strands each) out to each side.

Do you also chase the silver bundles just like you would pinstripes? Is it necessary to also chase the pink bundle to avoid it getting buried since it is the smallest?


----------



## automan26

You are correct about the layup numbers. I chase the pink and yellow.

Build it just like any other pinstripe, only with thicker pins and one very thin primary.

Automan


----------



## automan26

Today I was building a cable and noticed my spool of serving thread was running low. Just then the mail dude showed up with a package from my son. He sent my 4 orange spools and a spool driver from his 3D printer. The driver worked great... Snap... my spool was loaded on the drill-driven spool driver. When the spool was full... Snap, 
and I've loaded an empty to keep on truck'n. I planned to fill 4 spools, but I ran low on drill battery.

















Automan


----------



## automan26

Well, I put my freshly-built strings on a short time ago and, to be brutally honest, I'm a bit underwhelmed. I'm hanging right on the edge of building another set. I haven't tuned the setup yet, but one cable needed 1/2 twist to perfectly sync the cams.

Before I decide to scrap them I'd like a bit of input. What is your opinion? They're just OK, They're keepers, Replace them. 

Don't be afraid to be totally honest, you won't offend me by saying. "Yuck".

Automan


----------



## automan26

Well, I've given it some serious thought and I'll go ahead and tune the bow then build new strings. Flo orange sounds good on a black bow.

Automan


----------



## Bownut400

Hi Guys. I have been playing with balancing the Nw spinner. I made a jig with my arrow spinner to get the least amount friction. I done a video on my Facebook page if you are in there. Anyway. With the bieter prophy serving jig it takes 1243 grains to get close to a good balance ( with full serving spool). Basically two 1 ounce stab weights or 2 3/8”x1 bolts with 6 flat washers each bolt.








The AAE takes two pennies to get close. Hope this helps. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Binary cam man

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7769527
> 
> View attachment 7769525
> 
> View attachment 7769526
> 
> 
> Well, I put my freshly-built strings on a short time ago and, to be brutally honest, I'm a bit underwhelmed. I'm hanging right on the edge of building another set. I haven't tuned the setup yet, but one cable needed 1/2 twist to perfectly sync the cams.
> 
> Before I decide to scrap them I'd like a bit of input. What is your opinion? They're just OK, They're keepers, Replace them.
> 
> Don't be afraid to be totally honest, you won't offend me by saying. "Yuck".
> 
> Automan


I like it! But the sling need a color change to make it pop. Maybe more pink and some grey with less yellow. Those threads took a long time to make! Don’t trash them yet. See if the person you made them for likes them. I’m thinking it’s for a lady! Hope im right. If I’m not, then we will be doing what we love to do.STRING MAKING! That set would take me a week to make on the el cheap O. Have fun! Yes I like them! 1 vote for!


----------



## fgignac

automan26 said:


> View attachment 7769527
> 
> View attachment 7769525
> 
> View attachment 7769526
> 
> 
> Well, I put my freshly-built strings on a short time ago and, to be brutally honest, I'm a bit underwhelmed. I'm hanging right on the edge of building another set. I haven't tuned the setup yet, but one cable needed 1/2 twist to perfectly sync the cams.
> 
> Before I decide to scrap them I'd like a bit of input. What is your opinion? They're just OK, They're keepers, Replace them.
> 
> Don't be afraid to be totally honest, you won't offend me by saying. "Yuck".
> 
> Automan


I like the Strings... But if it were me I would have gone with pink end servings on the string. And probably grey or yellow the cables.

I also have a black bow and I find that having a stripe of color running down the center of the cam really adds a nice pop to it.

With a black bow, I find that black servings up being too much black, and using colored servings helps to break it up and give it more character.


----------



## WoolyWelsh

Given this: 




I'm thinking of building an El Cheapo tensioning jig and am curious if the addition of the thrust washer lets the compression spring freely rotate as it's being compressed (I cannot tell just by the photo below). 



sb220 said:


> Im also not sure how your setups keep the string from untwisting under tension.....if its just the friction of metal on metal to keep that from happening or what, but add in thrust washers and twists are going to spin out when you let go of it. I got some galvanized angles from home depot and cut some slots in them. Thrust washer between angle iron and spring. The black collar on front is one of these "set-screw collars" with a longer screw in it. McMaster-Carr . Loosen the set screw to twist and tighten it back down when your done twisting.


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## fgignac

8 believe @Huntinsker uses a trust bearing on his so he would be in the better position to answer you. But if I'm not mistaken, he puts it on the adjusting head and not on the spring head. So it would have no impact on the spring


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## Gene1

My jig is a little different and I added a needle thrust bearing on mine and it made a big difference when I’m twisting the string under tension.


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## automan26

Over the years I've built and used a bunch of El-Cheap-O jigs. I've found that the flat thrust bearings cause more issues than they solve. I do all my twisting and tensioning using the adjusting head opposite the spring head. Friction holds everything in place nicely and without the bearing there is very little (no) drag when adding twists.

Automan


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## Huntinsker

Yep, I put the thrust bearing on the springless end and it really helps with twisting. Never seen a need for it on the spring end since I don't twist that end at all.


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## Gene1

Arrow at Needle thrust bearing by the twisting handle. Right side is string to air cylinder.
In my case it made a big difference when twisting under tension.


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## Huntinsker

Yeah twisting without the thrust bearing got to be pretty rough. The bearing really smoothed things out for me.


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## Gene1

I have a nut on the end to tighten the position of post when laying out. This setup works great for me.


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