# Range Finders - Angle Compensation ?????



## phoneguy44 (Jun 17, 2009)

First, before I begin, I'm new to archery. Matter of fact, my bow arrives next week and I havent shot 1 arrow throught it yet. I'm not pretending to be a great archer, but I'm a pretty smart guy. Maybe there is something I just aint gettin here. Ok - here goes:

Got a buddy who just bought Nikons new "Archers Choice" Range finder. He said that it compenstates for the Angle when you're up in the tree and also when you're hunting on a slope.

My question is, in any given scenerio, how off would a normal flat ground range finder be off ? Is it bad enough where I need to spend an extra $60 ? Give an example if possible cause I dont understand.

My understanding how a range finder works is the rangefinder calculates the distance to an object by bouncing a laser beam off of the object and measuring the lapsed time until the beam returns. What difference does it make that your up in a tree ? Am I leaving the bow out of the equation ? Is that what this new range finder does ? Thanks for the input.


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## Dogscoach (Mar 3, 2009)

I have used both the Nikon Archery Pro, and the Bushnell plain-jane model. Both work exactly the same for me in a 12ft. stand. Only difference is the Nikon measures in 1/2 yard increments. My advice is to go with the cheaper one.


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## thelefty41 (Aug 1, 2006)

IMO it is not worth spending the extra $ on them. I bought a rangefinder last year and toiled with buying the a.r.c. model bushnell and after I did some basic trigonometry I realized it was not worth the extra $. You have to be shooting off of a cliff basically for it to have any realistic advantage over a basic rangfinder.


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## bonz50 (Sep 12, 2007)

pretty easy actually... the bow needs to be aimed using the pin appropriate for the flat distance (ie. like a table top)... simple geometry stipulates that if you are 20ft up in a tree that the distance you are shooting point to point is longer so some people will aim high or use the wrong pin to compensate for the height... if the linear distance on level ground is 60ft and you are 20ft up then the arrow will travel ~65ft by line of sight... but even when shooting from the tree stand the arrow would still travel only 60 linear feet... the angle compensation takes the guess work out of figuring which pin to use and you can choose appropriately...

edit - but as the others mention, its an expensive option as long as you know going up the stand about what the differences are... which aint much


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## johnf (Dec 20, 2008)

If you look at the advertisments for those things they show a deer at 35 yards (not unusuall) but the hunter is also 35 yards up a tree (105 feet:mg. Could you even get a climber in a tree that you could cimb 100 feet into?

Big hype little use imo. Now if your hunting in the big country stuff and shooting 300-500 yards up or down a mountain I can see how it would be usefull.

Bottom line- Save your money.


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## baldyhunter (Jan 22, 2006)

where I hunt it is very steep and I am comfortable shooting distances that most hunters do not feel comfortable shooting (not because I'm that good but because I practice almost every day of the year where most hunters do not). Out to 40 yards in steep locations I get sometimes a 6 or 7 yard difference between line of sight distance (regular rangefinder readings) and horizontal distances (the distance you should be useing). More than enough distance discrepancy to cause a miss in these conditions!! So ask yourself two questions a) do you hunt in steep teritory? b) do you feel comfortable shooting deer beyond 40 or so yards in this type of environment (very steep)? If you answere no to either of those questions save yourself some money and buy the regular rangefinders.


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## JWaltrip (Dec 30, 2006)

Save your cash go without the arc, angle, whatever feature. If you are out in the woods up a tree or on a slope, then I would assume you are a good enough of a shot to not need the arc feature anyway. At bowhunting distances these rangefinders are unnecessary.

I picked up last years model without the arc for about half price @ Cabela's.

My advice to new archers would be to start will the basics first.


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## phoneguy44 (Jun 17, 2009)

BONZ - so let me make sure I'm understanding this.

If I sight a pin in, on the ground, for a target 65 feet away, hitting the center of the target on flat ground, take the same bow, climb up a tree 20 feet, shoot at a target 65 feet away, I'm going to hit low using that same pin ?


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## johnf (Dec 20, 2008)

Theoretically you should hit it in the same spot. If you're standing next to a tree and shoot at something 65 feet away then climb 30 feet into the tree and shoot the same thing then theoretically you should aim at the same spot and should hit it in the same place. If I'm up in a tree and am trying to range something I find an object that is level with me to range and then follow it down to the ground. Your horizontal distance from point "A" to point "B' is what matters when ranging.


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## Infinitey (Mar 13, 2009)

My friend bought the angle compensation one and i already had the regular one, we tested out yardages from 6-70 the differences were incrdeibly miniscule, unless your a perfectionist, rich, super skilled archer then i would definetly get the cheaper one.


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## cptleo1 (May 30, 2007)

the angle of the dangle thingy is pretty much useless at common archery situations.

BUT - buy a Nikon - It will give accurate yardage through a screen of a ground blind.

Most other brands will not.


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## bornagain (Mar 24, 2005)

Not worth the money not enough difference in normal bow hunting situations and I usually go up 30ft. Using my buddies this last weekend with the angle compenstor it ranged pretty much the same distances 10yds to 40yds as my regular old Nikon 440 did.


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## hoggin03 (Oct 24, 2005)

If you will strictly be using it for archery on non-mountainous ground, save your money. However, if you'll be using it for very uneven terrain (mountain goat hunting, for instance) they can have some value. Say you're on a high cliff, aiming nearly straight down, 40 yards straight-line from a goat, you'll most likely make a bad shot if you use your 40 yard pin.

As far as treestand hunting - here's an example.

15 feet up a tree with 100 feet from base of tree to target, ARC would be 101 feet. So that means a 33.33 yard shot would be 33.70 yards.

20 feet up a tree with 100 feet from base of tree to target, ARC would be 102 feet. So that means a 33.33 yard shot would be 33.99 yards. 

50 feet up a tree (who hunts that high?!?!?!) with 100 feet from base of tree to target, ARC would be 110 feet. So that means a 33.33 yard shot would be 36.7 yards.


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

You all seem to be missing the real question here, I believe. In reality, the rangefinder isn't calculating the difference between the range to target from the base of the tree to the target as compared to the distance to the target from some elevated position in the tree. It is measuring the actual distance to the target from the shooting position, them calculating the impact of gravity based on arrow velocity when shooting along a measured slope.

A level shot at 45 yards will require a setting of 45 yards on your sight. However, a 45 yard shot at an up or down slope angle will require a minor sight setting adjustment to consider the impact of gravity which is slightly different than a flat shot. This would be relatively minor for a 30 yard shot unless the slope angle is acute. Shooting nearly straight down would require a significant adjustment to the sight setting.

A 7 degree downslope at 45 yards on my bow requires about 1/2 yard adjustment, ie. 44.5 yard sight setting. Slightly less for a 7 degree uphill shot at 45 yards, ie. 44.75 yards. A very minor uphill, say 2.5 degrees will actually force me to add about a 10th of a yard. At somewhere around 3.5 degrees it becomes deadon and then requires a minor deletion of yardage on the sight setting as it increases above 4 degrees. 

I don't hunt from a treestand so I can't offer advice here, but I suspect it might be useful if your downslopes are rather acute. Frankly, I would just go out and practice to find out what you need to do at different angles/yardages. I have used them only for precise target shooting and never for hunting purposes.


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## nelliott (Feb 22, 2008)

gravity is going to have a different affect on your arrow if your aiming uphill or downhill. The best thing for a newbee to do is put a stand up and practice shooting diff distances with it. Dont rely on that rangefinder because when it comes down to it you might not have time to use it. Try and guess the yardage and then confirm it with the rangefinder. Just become familiar with your setup and where your arrow impacts from the stand at diff distances. I purchased the RX-II that has the arc. For the money you could just as well purchase one without it. With the high speed bows it might have a couple yards diff on it. Good Luck.


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## Wood (Aug 3, 2006)

If you're a flatlander don't bother with the angle compensator. If you hunt the mountains, not having it could cost you dearly!


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## soulless (May 22, 2009)

bushnell scout 1000 ARC.. works good and cheap. Does all the calculations for you


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## spike camp (Jun 2, 2008)

i practice steep up and down hill angles all the time and it does make a big difference. up to 10+ yards!!
real life example: last year i shot a bull at 63 yards at a steep down hill angle(approximately 35 degrees) and used my 50 yard pin.
i would never have been able to do that with out all the practice,the angle compensating range finder,and a solid understanding of the effects that steep angles have on arrow flight.
that being said,if you dont hunt steep terrain the angle compensating RF probably isnt necessary.


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## j82higgs (Feb 21, 2009)

i bought the nikkon archers choice last year sold it this spring and will be getting a cheaper one...not too many steep slopes in indiana


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## Plain & Simple (Jun 12, 2007)

If I range something with my regular rangefinder from 20 feet up and adjust my sight to the distance I hit exactly where I am aiming as long as I do everything I am suppose to do, just like when I am on the ground. Save your money.


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## phoneguy44 (Jun 17, 2009)

You got to love this site !! Thanks for the info guys !

Dennis
Oxford, AL


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## hauntedbyelk (May 3, 2009)

*Nikon Rifle Hunter 550 - Angle Compensation*

I bought the Nikon Rifle Hunter 550 for archery and rifle hunting. I hunt in steep terrain in WA and ID so it does make a big difference there for rifle hunting. I'm hoping for another Alaska moose hunt where the distances can be pretty long and the stalks very long and difficult. Angle compensation hasn't been a big deal for archery so far except for those extreme angle long distance 3d targets. When practicing I always estimate the compensated distance and check it with the rangefinder. I'm already getting much better at estimating distance. For me the versatility of a longer range angle compensating range finder made sense. You could save money by skipping this feature but I would still look hard at the Nikons. They are bright, clear, reliable and simple to use - all at a mid range price point.


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## elkski (Feb 4, 2005)

Wood said:


> If you're a flatlander don't bother with the angle compensator. If you hunt the mountains, not having it could cost you dearly!


In the West you can easily get a 55 degree slope shot downhill out of a treestand. I remember a 90 yard shot correcting to a 60 yard shot once.
The arc helped me take 3rd place in a recent state 3D.. one downhill shot at the small standing bear was 22 yards and corrected to 18 yards everyone was shooting out the top. on Another target it was 42 yards and corrected to 38.
For flatlanders who dont plan to hunt Elk or deer out West get a used finder for a song. But for me bring on the better designs.


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## Aceman (Oct 28, 2003)

I think I shot that same tournament and was going to post this same scenario. I would not even think about purchasing a range finder that did not have this feature. But most of the shooting I do is marked 3d and field in Utah. For hunting I really don't see a huge use for it. It in not that uncommon to take 4 to 6 yards off of a shot here at a tournament, and out at 60 yards that is the difference of winning and losing big time. You said you got third? how many x's did you shoot?


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## elkski (Feb 4, 2005)

I think it was 8. 
Dont forget when you shoot slope shots like this your going to find out real quick if your sight is all leveled up. No 3rd axis? you lose.


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## blue thunder (Jan 20, 2003)

I hunt in a ground blind,but I just bought a Bushnell "Chuck Adam's" rangefinder.I don't really need the arc,but the price was right.


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