# How much float



## PEI Rob (Jan 24, 2016)

I watched a video showing float but I wondered if it was exaggerated for the video so a viewer could see the principle easily. What I saw was a HUGE amount of float for target archery, or at least what I think is a lot. My float is much much better but no way am I a target shooter. So when the serious shooters are at 50M, how much float is there?


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

Oh no, not this thread again.... I think the only serious answer that has ever come out of the past "let it float" nuclear wars here on I&A is: the serious shooters have "as little float as possible". 

You can get it pretty stable but not eliminate it entirely. Bizarrely, I have the steadiest pin on my olympic style recurve for some reason. It may be the titanic holding weight that allows that, but I'm really not sure. Arrow doesn't go there for sure, but the pin sure sits really still. Go figure.

In league this past winter, I got to watch up close one of our locals who's now a world ranked compound shooter (Cassidy Cox) and she's got a little movement at full draw. Arrow goes into the X almost every time like magic even so.

DM


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## oldpro888 (Dec 31, 2010)

Float at 50 m will be just outside the 10 ring


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## catcherarcher (Sep 23, 2014)

Mine is the X-ring of am 80 cm on most days, every now and then it will open up to the size of the 10. This is at 50 meters with a 4x lens.


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## bsp5019 (Oct 1, 2007)

dmacey said:


> Oh no, not this thread again.... I think the only serious answer that has ever come out of the past "let it float" nuclear wars here on I&A is: the serious shooters have "as little float as possible".
> 
> You can get it pretty stable but not eliminate it entirely. Bizarrely, I have the steadiest pin on my olympic style recurve for some reason. It may be the titanic holding weight that allows that, but I'm really not sure. Arrow doesn't go there for sure, but the pin sure sits really still. Go figure.
> 
> ...


Without a doubt it's the holding weight of the recurve. That's why you see a lot of top compound shooters try and get their holding weight up.

but like you said, this has all been discussed before.


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## bigHUN (Feb 5, 2006)

*float amount not the same*

You asking for a float size? 
What pin we talking about? 
0.009" or 0.029" or maybe what I am using 0.080" for Field and 0.140" for FITA
or wise reverse depend of the situation









you can have a "huge" float with a 0.019" pin inside the spot but you can not have that big float with a larger pin or dot or circle
the 0.140" pin almost covers the 80 yard center (both the Field and Hunter 5 point spot) and leaves just a little space around for the 10 ring @50 meters....


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I have a nice float and when I actually train enough that my shot breaks very smoothly my float is good enough to take care of me and send really nice shots to the target. When I am shooting poorly and my execution is allowing me to fade my pressures in the shot so that as the shot breaks the bow is being dropped out or pulled off or pulled up my shooting is not as good.

For me figuring out how to transition from settling into the shot to actually execution so that there is no funny wiggling in any direction is the basis of most of my training, I have found that as I execute when I am shooting really good my float shrinks really nicely as my shot is close to breaking and that is when I see my best shooting. 

When I am coming back from a layoff such as a injury I refuse to allow myself to shorten the shot window and I shoot with a bigger one and just float until the shot breaks when it wants to but when I put in a few months of shooting and am shooting really strong I shrink that window of when it is going to fire a bunch and basically know when it is going to break and the float shrinks right along with it.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

PEI Rob said:


> So when the serious shooters are at 50M, how much float is there?


50m? Looking at it logically just how much movement can you get away with at 50m and still average around 9.5 points per arrow? 

Think about it for a minute. The 10 on the 50m target is around 3" in dia. Do you think the top shooters are just really good at making the arrow go off (by surprise) when their bow is pointed at the 10? Or do you think they're pretty good at holding it in pretty close proximity to that 3" 10 ring? Again, logically, that should answer the question. :wink:


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## rattlinman (Dec 30, 2004)

Lets not forget that once you start "watching" that pin to see your float, your mind will automatically try harder to hold the pin steadier or keep it in the ring, which for me causes my form the break down and movement increase.

I'm better off burning a hole in the 12 ring and letting the pin do it's thing.


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## SUBIEDUDE1020 (Sep 6, 2012)

rattlinman said:


> Lets not forget that once you start "watching" that pin to see your float, your mind will automatically try harder to hold the pin steadier or keep it in the ring, which for me causes my form the break down and movement increase.
> 
> I'm better off burning a hole in the 12 ring and letting the pin do it's thing.


this is why i believe i shoot better with a dot about the size of the spot rather than a small pin. With the dot i look at the lines on the target and try to keep it lined up. When i shoot a pin my instinct is to watch my pin float around and i get more problems with the pin dipping randomly.


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## pherrley (Jan 24, 2015)

Lazarus said:


> 50m? Looking at it logically just how much movement can you get away with at 50m and still average around 9.5 points per arrow?
> 
> Think about it for a minute. The 10 on the 50m target is around 3" in dia. Do you think the top shooters are just really good at making the arrow go off (by surprise) when their bow is pointed at the 10? Or do you think they're pretty good at holding it in pretty close proximity to that 3" 10 ring? Again, logically, that should answer the question. :wink:


This is probably about the most realistic answer you're going to get. Assume professional archers, so we can discount form flaws causing misses, take out wind, and nerves when competing. You should be able to figure the size of someones float from their scores. In my opinion once you get to a certain level of competency with shooting form, archery is basically a holding contest. Whoever can hold the steadiest, shoots better.

If someone is shooting 10's every shot, its pretty likely that their float is inside the 10 ring.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

pherrley said:


> In my opinion once you get to a certain level of competency with shooting form, archery is basically a holding contest. Whoever can hold the steadiest, shoots better.


Totally agree with this. With one addition; Whoever can hold the steadiest shoots better, *while going through their firing process.* Lots of people can hold pretty steady, but engage the release and that's where lots of people lose it. A great deal of holding steady rests in your release hand and brain, rather than in the bow arm. This is something that's rarely talked about but likely more responsible for a steady hold than any bow arm coordination or stabilizer weight distribution formula. .02


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

rattlinman said:


> Lets not forget that once you start "watching" that pin to see your float, your mind will automatically try harder to hold the pin steadier or keep it in the ring, which for me causes my form the break down and movement increase.
> 
> I'm better off burning a hole in the 12 ring and letting the pin do it's thing.


 Yep. I quit watching my float a decade ago. I "know" when I'm holding steady or not. I focus on where I am aiming. I let my subconscious do the rest.


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## PEI Rob (Jan 24, 2016)

I am talking about the center of the pin, the size of the pin is irrelevant. No, I do not think you're going to hit 10's if you're not holding inside the 10. My concern is my ability to learn. Am I going about this wrong? Simply put, I don't know how to improve in that area, what it takes as far as practice, equipment, method etc. so I need accurate detailed instructions so I can practice. Knowing the upper limit will help me set a more realistic goal.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

PEI Rob said:


> I watched a video showing float but I wondered if it was exaggerated for the video so a viewer could see the principle easily. What I saw was a HUGE amount of float for target archery, or at least what I think is a lot. My float is much much better but no way am I a target shooter. So when the serious shooters are at 50M, how much float is there?





PEI Rob said:


> I am talking about the center of the pin, the size of the pin is irrelevant. No, I do not think you're going to hit 10's if you're not holding inside the 10. My concern is my ability to learn. Am I going about this wrong? Simply put, I don't know how to improve in that area, what it takes as far as practice, equipment, method etc. so I need accurate detailed instructions so I can practice. Knowing the upper limit will help me set a more realistic goal.


Videos show someone holding forever as far as I'm concerned and "forever" amplifies movement. I don't watch my pin for movement. My pin goes on target (where I want it) and execution holds it there until the arrow is gone. My attention is the target and the pin moves to where I think it's a picture and I "take" the picture. Execution is the killer. Good execution, the pin isn't effected. Bad execution, the arrow ain't going where you want it. Pretty damn simple.

Any float for me is the pin moving however until it's where I want it. 

I'll bet the big boys aren't holding to find out how much float they have. Bet they have their shooting rig set up to acquire the target/get on target without undue stress or time. Watch how fast they shoot. They anchor. They acquire the target. The arrow is gone. When did they wait for float to develop?

You looking for stabilizer balance that gives good target acquirement then try some information from the likes of George Ryals (aka Griv) and others. Like some in here, I believe weighting stabs up close gets you going and longer distance will prove if weighting needs refined.


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