# asa known 45 vs open b



## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

i have noticed that the scores in open b seem to be higher than known 45.they are both 45 yard classes , is the known 45 range set up harder than open b ? which would you consider to be a more competitive class?


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

At the first two ASA shoots Open B & K45 have shot the same ranges.


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## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

seems like known 45 scores would be higher


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## pseshooter300 (Oct 16, 2005)

it would seem that way but i hadnt checked the scores between the two.


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## bclowman (Aug 2, 2009)

*Scores*

I seen the scores and i would say that your top Open B shooters are just that good at yardage estimating that known doesn't really have that much advantage or maybe the course wasn't stretched out that muck as far as long shots were known would be of more of an advantage.. The Pro class K50 and Open Pro you will see a huge difference in score. 420's versus 450's


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## asa1485 (Jan 16, 2008)

I personally like unknown yardages.

The known stuff, to me, really is no different than shooting spots but at longer yardages.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

The guy that has won both asa's in open b won out of known 45 last year. He can flat out shoot. I think you see lower scores because alot more 14s shot at in k45.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

open b in florida was tuff but columbus was average, you have to be on top of your game in these classes they are tuff, and it seems like no one wants to move up until they are forced then some of them start crying or disappear, i really dont care just wanna shoot!


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## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

I'm just trying to decide which one to shoot in. i shot open c last year but i dont like having to shoot both rounds in the same day. all of our local shoots are 45 yards unknown so i'm kinda thinking about shooting in open b.


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## mx614 (Mar 30, 2008)

*known vs unknown*

One day of open B is known. Right?

I personaly would rather shoot unknown. A poor shot can be blamed on: " oh I shure misjudged the yardage on that one" but in know a poor shot is just a poor shot unless you use the clasic, "I forgot to adjust my sight!"
Know classes were made to draw more "spot shooters" in to the asa. I feel most cretain the difference in scores were that there are more 14's shot in the known class. You know as well as I do. They can help you or hurt you.


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

Open B is very very competetive class. I shot in it last year and you never know who is tearing it up on the second day. There are guys that shoot 10 down on the first day and 30 up on the second day. There are some guys that shoot better unknown distance than on known distance. Most likely that guy who wins will stay around even or slightly up on unknown day and then tear it up on the known distance day. More often than not, the leader on day 1, doesnt win in Open B. I'm glad that I won out of it so I dont have to worry about someone shooting 40 up in one day and moving from 30th place to 1st.
It is easier to play it safe and not have to shoot 14's on the second day and worry about someone Shooting lights out.


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## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

since you put it that way , do you think open a would be a better class to shoot in so you wont have the known yardage day to worry about.


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

I shoot in Open A now and I love it. We do shoot a harder course than Open B and we have shot the same course as the semi-pro's in the first 2 shoots. In Texas we are shooting on range A&B (pro course) so I'm expecting a tough course again. If you are confident in your yardage and you feel comfortable shooting unknown distance out to 50 yds than go for it. For me, I can shoot unknown distance pretty well and got close to winning in Open B 3 times last year (2nd, 6th, 6th). I usually shot around 10-16 up on the 2nd day, but yardage judging and shooting unknown distance is my strong point. I am really confident in my judging ability and in Open A, I just shoot my game and don't really worry about someone shooting 25 up either day. This allows me to relax more and not feel like I have to shoot at 14's in order to win. In Open B I would start hearing about someone being 20 up on the 2nd day and then start gunning for 14's and getting anxious. I havent shot at one 14 this year so far and have got 2nd place in Gainesville and Georgia in Open A. It is a tougher course than Open B shoots but, if yardage is your strong point, then I would just shoot Open A. It all depends on your ability. The top shooters in every class are very comparable, so Its all about choosing your strong points and shooting in the class that gives you the best chance to win.


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## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

thanks,i have always shot in open c but every body picks on me for staying in there even though i cant seem to win out. i just cant make myself shoot at a bunch of 14's and it seems in known yardage classes thats what it takes to win.so i thought about shooting open b but then you still have the one day of known distance.i have always shot 45 yard unknown in the local shoots and shoot pretty good ,usually stay around even sometimes i'll shoot up a little or down a little . i just hate to get in over my head in open a if i'm not ready for it.


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## smfb09 (Jul 1, 2009)

i personally know matt varnes the one that has won both open b shoots this year. that guy can just flat out shoot no questions asked. he pretty much wins every night in indoor. he shot k45 last year and did real well in it to. i think the first shoot he shot last year in k45 he won and had to move right out. i honestly think he will be one to look out for in the pro class this next couple of years.on the known yardage side he can pretty much shoot every 14 if he can see it.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Known yardage brings out bad target panic in most shooters. When someone tells you the distance there is a little more pressure and you can't hide behind the saying (I misjudged the distance on that one) most 3D shooters don't shoot spots or not enough and hide their target panic on foam animals! There are allot of good shooters in these classes but most are scared of known distance. There was a study done, 2 courses one known and one unknown. Scores where higher on the unknown and allot lower on the known. Known shows all the flaws and fears in a archery shot. I known some great 3D shooters that will die before they shoot known distance or spots there target panic is to bad when they know all they have to do is hit a small known distance target!
Just my 2 cents.....


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## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

thats what im thinking.i'm scared that i would feel like i would have to shoot at some 14's that where out of my comfort zone on the known distance day in order to keep up with everybody else. but on the other hand when the yardage gets out there at 45 plus yards, my trouble of being 3 or 4 yards off will really hurt me. i wonder if they would just let me shoot in the little kids class!!!!


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

STELLIX said:


> thanks,i have always shot in open c but every body picks on me for staying in there even though i cant seem to win out. i just cant make myself shoot at a bunch of 14's and it seems in known yardage classes thats what it takes to win.so i thought about shooting open b but then you still have the one day of known distance.i have always shot 45 yard unknown in the local shoots and shoot pretty good ,usually stay around even sometimes i'll shoot up a little or down a little . i just hate to get in over my head in open a if i'm not ready for it.


If you can stay around even or a little up you would be fine in Open A. It is supposed to be a 45 yd. course but in Florida we had a few shots closer to 50, But in Georgia, there wasnt anything past 46 yds. The only downfall of jumping from Open C to Open A is that you can't go back down to Open B if you don't like Open A. You could move from A to K45 if you dont like it though. I've always been told if you have to think about it very hard, just do it. The best way to learn to swim is to jump headfirst into the deep end.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

I know guys that would not go to the ASA shoots if they had to shoot 1 day of upper 12 and known distance


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

doesnt open a shoot low 12 both days, that is worth alot imo


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

3Dblackncamo said:


> doesnt open a shoot low 12 both days, that is worth alot imo


Yea all low 12's. Same as Senior open, Semi-pro, Unlimited and all the pro classes.


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

K45 is used by some to work on their shooting without having to worry about yardages. Then once you get the shot down then start working on judging yardages and move to a unknown class.
Charlie


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

STELLIX said:


> thanks,i have always shot in open c but every body picks on me for staying in there even though i cant seem to win out. i just cant make myself shoot at a bunch of 14's and it seems in known yardage classes thats what it takes to win.so i thought about shooting open b but then you still have the one day of known distance.i have always shot 45 yard unknown in the local shoots and shoot pretty good ,usually stay around even sometimes i'll shoot up a little or down a little . i just hate to get in over my head in open a if i'm not ready for it.


 I have been fighting over this decision myself.I do have a plan in place for the rest of the season now tho.:wink:
I really like the idea of low 12s both days in open a.


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## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

so even if you dont win any money or place in open a you still cant move back down to open b?


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## mw31 (Apr 23, 2007)

STELLIX said:


> so even if you dont win any money or place in open a you still cant move back down to open b?


I think if you go like two or three years without any wins in your class they will let you step down one class.


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## Bubba Dean (Jun 2, 2005)

If you win less than $200 in your current year of Open A you can move back to Open B. ASA still can reserve the right to determine your class.


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## aubowman (Apr 28, 2008)

My next tournament I will be shooting k45. I have just went to an open set-up, and I'm going to use the course to work on learning to really shot this set up. I have alway shot at least 40 yards in tournament since I started 5 years ago, so I'm not going to go to a less yard. Hopefully once I get this set up right I will move to open B or Open A. 

I think k45 is for that reason to learn and then move on regardless if you ever win out. I would love to win (I'm to competitive not to try) but to me it is still about having fun and getting better.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

I personally would like to see ASA make open B all unknown. There are so many class choices for someone who wants to shoot known yardage, but to shoot all unknown you practically have to jump to the top. Am I the only one who feels this way?


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## Kadob62 (May 1, 2009)

dw'struth said:


> I personally would like to see ASA make open B all unknown. There are so many class choices for someone who wants to shoot known yardage, but to shoot all unknown you practically have to jump to the top. Am I the only one who feels this way?



Shoot open A, it's 45yrd unknown both days, right


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## shooter280 (Mar 8, 2010)

I have always thought that jumping in a class way over your head will make you try harder and bring out the best in yourself.. If i could afford it i would shoot open pro if money wasnt a issue. that just my .02$


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

shooter280 said:


> I have always thought that jumping in a class way over your head will make you try harder and bring out the best in yourself.. If i could afford it i would shoot open pro if money wasnt a issue. that just my .02$


I agree. I always seem to shooter better when I am shooting against better competition.


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

I've been against the known distances from the start. There is K45 and K50 if you want to shoot known. Oh yeah K40 for the ladies. They could do away with Open A, Open C would shoot 40 yds max, all unknown. Open B would shoot 45 max, all unknown. Once you shoot out of C then go to B and after B, Semi-pro. Bow Novice should be all unknown, like it was before. They raised the speed from 260 to 280 and made it all known. It ain't but 30 yds. You can get by with one pin. If it was all unknown maybe some of those 40 and 50 up scores will come down. If you're having to judge how far that 14 is instead of having a paper with the yardage you may have a second thought about going for it.:wink:
Charlie


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

geezer I agree with you they have known yardage classes,but you know why they have 20 unknown and 20 known because there targets will not hold up to two days of shooting at low 12 they look like the came out of levi morgans back yard with holes in them that will not stop an arrow!!! think about it when they shot 2 days of low 12 my son shot thru a black bear in va at 37 yrds and it did not even slow down the arrow, the next yr that is when all this bs started! the bottom line is mckenzie targets wont hold up of 2 days of low 12!


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## 4brdgob (Aug 11, 2009)

geezer i agree to , ive been in open c for about 5 years know, when it was all unknown i loved it, back then if you shot even or a little up you were in the money ,i shot 4 up in ga. and placed 24th. ive been thinking on goin to open a to just because its all unknown but i thought it was 50 yards, if its 45 im gone.


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

My son shoots Open A and he said it is suppose to be 45 max but they've been shooting the same range as Semi-pro. He said at the last 2 shoots they have had maybe 3 targets per range over 45. The longest at 47, 48 yds.
Charlie


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## aggie2000tx (May 3, 2006)

geezer047 said:


> My son shoots Open A and he said it is suppose to be 45 max but they've been shooting the same range as Semi-pro. He said at the last 2 shoots they have had maybe 3 targets per range over 45. The longest at 47, 48 yds.
> Charlie


Open A at the national shoots is a 50 yard max class. At the state ASA Open A will be on the same range so it is a 45 yard max at the state level. Also at the state level half the shots are known distance no matter what class you shoot it. This is the way that it is in Texas it may be different in other states.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

aggie2000tx said:


> Open A at the national shoots is a 50 yard max class. At the state ASA Open A will be on the same range so it is a 45 yard max at the state level. Also at the state level half the shots are known distance no matter what class you shoot it. This is the way that it is in Texas it may be different in other states.


Incorrect, Open A is listed as a 45 yard max class, that being said we have shot the same range as the semi pros at both fl and ga. They do a have a margin of error for setting targets a little over the max. The state level shoots kinda comes down to the club or state holding it I've seen one do half and half the other so all unknown.

I wish all my open a buddies luck in Texas, the pro range should be some fun!


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## geezer047 (Mar 11, 2007)

Yeah, checked the range assignments and says Semi-pro and Open A will be shooting ranges A/B. 50 max for Semi and 45 max for Open A, go figure.
Charlie


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

WDMJR3DBOWGUY said:


> Incorrect, Open A is listed as a 45 yard max class, that being said we have shot the same range as the semi pros at both fl and ga. They do a have a margin of error for setting targets a little over the max. The state level shoots kinda comes down to the club or state holding it I've seen one do half and half the other so all unknown.
> 
> I wish all my open a buddies luck in Texas, the pro range should be some fun!


Yea buddy, Im ready to shoot the Pro ranges. It should be a blast:mg:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

I just signed up for Paris in K45. Since I had previously shot in Open C I was told I'm locked for the year. Can't go back now.. :aww:

Might be a good thing though, seeming as how I judge distance about as well as Stevie Wonder.. :shade:


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

3dshooter25 said:


> I agree. I always seem to shooter better when I am shooting against better competition.


Atleast with me not there, thats one more tree that is safe:mg: Seriously though wish I was coming yall have fun!


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## keyman (Mar 22, 2003)

JawsDad said:


> I just signed up for Paris in K45. Since I had previously shot in Open C I was told I'm locked for the year. Can't go back now.. :aww:
> 
> Might be a good thing though, seeming as how I judge distance about as well as Stevie Wonder.. :shade:


I am shooting it also. It is fun not having to worry about guessing yardage. You just shot a federation Open C. I don't think that has any effect on your National Level ASA shoots but might be wrong. Anyways, maybe we will be on the same target and you can help me find my arrows.


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## Jr. G Nockman (Mar 1, 2010)

Open B you can shoot for 'Shooter of the Year". In Novice ,K45 and K50, you can only shoot for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0rSTRrQeQ


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## Buck JR (Feb 21, 2007)

Shooter of the year in K$% and K50 also


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> Open B you can shoot for 'Shooter of the Year". In Novice ,K45 and K50, you can only shoot for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0rSTRrQeQ



Right back at ya.. :thumb:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

keyman said:


> I am shooting it also. It is fun not having to worry about guessing yardage. You just shot a federation Open C. I don't think that has any effect on your National Level ASA shoots but might be wrong. Anyways, maybe we will be on the same target and you can help me find my arrows.


That probably makes sense.. I didn't ask when she told me that. But, I figure I'll probably stick to the class anyway. I don't really give a rats crapper about going out and practicing judging distance anyway. Oh, and I doubt we'll be looking for your arrows, now mine on the other hand... :noidea:


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## keyman (Mar 22, 2003)

JawsDad said:


> That probably makes sense.. I didn't ask when she told me that. But, I figure I'll probably stick to the class anyway. I don't really give a rats crapper about going out and practicing judging distance anyway. Oh, and I doubt we'll be looking for your arrows, now mine on the other hand... :noidea:


What target are you on?


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

keyman said:


> What target are you on?


Not sure yet. I didn't get my assignment since I registered late.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

I guess i'm the only one that likes open b. I love known distance and also want to judge targets too. My plan is try to shoot even on the first day and as high up as possible on the second day. Even + 20 up should be sitting real good. It's a lot easier said than done though.


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## hophunt (Aug 21, 2007)

Jr. G Nockman said:


> Open B you can shoot for 'Shooter of the Year". In Novice ,K45 and K50, you can only shoot for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0rSTRrQeQ


Well I guess you forgot to look into all of the classes that have a shooter of the year. K45 and K50 do have SOY. Beyond that, what makes the folks shooting these classes any less of an archer than you. I would venture to say that atleast half of the folks shooting these two classes on any given weekend are just as good as as any of the other 45 yd class shooters if not better. The big difference is that most of the people are either honest enough to say out right they don't judge that well or their work schedules or family priorities do not permit them to get out and practice judging.

However, I guess such a post coming from someone hiding behind their username and not sharing their real name should not really be a surprise.


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

asa_low12 said:


> I guess i'm the only one that likes open b. I love known distance and also want to judge targets too. My plan is try to shoot even on the first day and as high up as possible on the second day. Even + 20 up should be sitting real good. It's a lot easier said than done though.


That why I dont like open c or b.I also believe known yardage is hurting the open classes we have k45 and k50 make the rest be unknown both days.That would make the number of shooters in k45 higher and let them have at it.If not before I will be in open a starting with the classic.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

treeman65 said:


> That why I dont like open c or b.I also believe known yardage is hurting the open classes we have k45 and k50 make the rest be unknown both days.That would make the number of shooters in k45 higher and let them have at it.If not before I will be in open a starting with the classic.


Why don't you like it based on what I said?


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## treeman65 (Nov 24, 2005)

asa_low12 said:


> Why don't you like it based on what I said?


I didnt mean it to offend you.The reason I dont like half unknown/known is actually cause of what you said about 20 up the second day.That is why I am going to open a,


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

treeman65 said:


> I didnt mean it to offend you.The reason I dont like half unknown/known is actually cause of what you said about 20 up the second day.That is why I am going to open a,


No you didn't offend me at all:darkbeer: I was just wondering if that's what you didn't like or what.


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## TMax27 (Nov 7, 2006)

Does anyone know if Bow Novice and Womens Hunter will shoot upper, or lower 12's??


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## STELLIX (Jun 21, 2006)

i just looked at the weather ,looks like it may storm on sat.


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## asa_low12 (Mar 15, 2008)

30% chance of isolated t-storms


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## hophunt (Aug 21, 2007)

TMax27 said:


> Does anyone know if Bow Novice and Womens Hunter will shoot upper, or lower 12's??


Not positive on womens hunter, but I think they shoot upprs on day 2. I know Novice shoots uppers day 2.


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## WDMJR3DBOWGUY (Dec 2, 2003)

TMax27 said:


> Does anyone know if Bow Novice and Womens Hunter will shoot upper, or lower 12's??


Basically the same classes, one day lower and one day upper. They will inform you at the safety meeting prior to your round starting.


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## dw'struth (Mar 14, 2008)

It may not work in reality, but I think open B would be a great class to cross over to all unknown yardage. It could be left @ 40 max, like open C, but be all unknown. Like my earlier post says, I think there should be another option for shooting unknown. It might be a disaster, but it sounds good in my head.


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