# vanes off a shelf bad?



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm planning on going to a 900 round type tournament where you can shoot on different days in different divisions. Was thinking of doing OR one day and trad the second. I only want to take one case with stuff, and ideally one set of arrows (though I may have to do two depending on what I'd need for trad). My usual outdoor distance arrows are carbons with vanes. That's no problem off an OR rig. But if I tried to use those same skinny carbons with vanes off a trad bow for one day, would I have issues? What sort of problems? I know I've heard people say don't use vanes off a shelf but I guess I'm asking why.....? If I have to take some aluminums for the trad bow, I will.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

The naturally bendy feather will forgive a riser swipe more so than a plastic vane. 

However, if you _tune_ the vaned shafts to the bow, they are fine to shoot because ... they are tuned to the bow! Riser swipes should not be occurring at this point.

The only way to find out if your existing vanes will work is to go ahead and shoot them out of the particular bow you want to double them on. If they shoot fine, or if you can tune the bow a bit to make them shoot fine, you win.

Good luck.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

With careful tuning you could probably do it, especially if you arrows are set up with smaller low profile vanes. I'd try to tune with the cock vane in instead of out, that would give you the most possible clearance. I've never tried to do it myself but have read of others that have. They are good and experienced shooters though with consistent form and good tuning skills.


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

Azzurri,

As they used to say, "I admire your sand." By that, I mean, that the first time you are going to try vanes off a shelf is at a 900 round tournament?? I guess it just seems to me that before you entered a tournament, you might have shot the equipment so you have a clue what will happen. 

Anyway, I wish you luck!! Sincerely!


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Moebow said:


> Azzurri,
> 
> As they used to say, "I admire your sand." By that, I mean, that the first time you are going to try vanes off a shelf is at a 900 round tournament?? I guess it just seems to me that before you entered a tournament, you might have shot the equipment so you have a clue what will happen.
> 
> Anyway, I wish you luck!! Sincerely!


I'm not doing the "double idea" tournament for a few weeks, but I have already committed to the concept by setting up the trip as an overnighter. [I have a 900 this week but for it I'm using the OR rig and nothing else.] I recognized the logistical issue shortly after I decided to double, but the discussion today about trad in outdoor target tournaments reminded me. I put this in its own thread rather than jack the other guy's.

The arrows in question are Carbon Impact Super Clubs with roughly 2" pre-fletched vanes:
http://www.carbonimpact.com/11_super_club_carbon_arrows.php

I am doing a fair amount of practice at 900 distances right now so I could just bring the trad bow along and try it with the same arrows. The bows (OR and trad) are in the same neighborhood on draw weight. I have aluminums I could use that have feathers -- what I usually use with the bow -- but that would be logistically tougher and would make the arrow have more arc and less speed, tougher outdoors.


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## rickstix (Nov 11, 2009)

The subject of shooting plastic fletch off the shelf comes up fairly frequently…so…I’d have to say that there are a lot less people having a positive result. More often/common the result is wobbly arrow flight and the cure almost immediately presents itself…feathered fletching.

IMO, getting vanes to work is kinda ticklish. The arrow itself has to satisfy the equation…right spine, physical weight, and where the weight is distributed (balance), which would also point to factoring the arrows length. Given the number of contributing factors and range of margins with each…I’d consider it by stroke of luck or much trial and error that someone attains an entirely satisfactory result.

Short story from personal experience, as a bowhunter: One year I was faced with a persistent streak of rainy days and I happened to have some plactic fletched arrows that I hadn’t stripped yet. I shot them out of different bows until I found one combination that stood out from the others. And, as with all testing, I was trying to maintain my best shot execution…but, when a flaw did creep in, the arrow’s flight was trashed.

So...my conclusion out of all of this was: it is possible for me to shoot vanes off the shelf…but there is no room for forgiveness, in either the arrow’s specifications or how much less of a shooting machine I can be.

Anyhow…that’s my story and I'm sticking to it...Good Luck with yours. Enjoy, Rick.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

I have tuned, I think they were called bi-vanes for a hunting bow. Pretty much shot where my feathered arrows went. Put on broadheads and took off the vanes. It took me a loooooong time to tune them - they had to wear down so they'd flex more. My advise is the same as rickstix "forget about it".

Bowmania


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Based on the consistency of advice, I'm leaning heavily towards just figuring out a way to cram some aluminums into my case alongside the carbons. I may still do some testing at practice in the next few weeks, but I tend to favor set-and-forget setups, and if I'm going to tune for the 900s, I want to spend more time on the OR setup.


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

depends on the vane. 
Blazers- Nope- way too stiff
cheap easton vane- maybe- they fold a little better but still too stiff for most
duravane- yep; they fold up nice when hitting the shelf...still not as good as feathers

with the right vane and a slightly higher nock ponit, off the shelf isn't too difficult- but much more a pain than necessary.

If you're going to shoot off the shelf, shoot cock vane in.


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## wdh1974 (Aug 10, 2014)

With a great release and tiny blazers, and build up the center of the shelf with cock feather up you would have little contact, ive done this, but i rarely shot finger release, i used a strip of leather, which isnt legal of course in a trourney, but if your release is solid all i said should work. I pulled out the recurve and shot fingers on a bare shelf with blazers, the arrow kicked left but flew straight after 10 yards. feathers are dirt cheap if you use bearpaw, $4.35 a dozen http://www.kustomkingarchery.com/4-inch-Shield-Solid-Color-Feathers-by-Bearpaw/productinfo/8305/ cheaper if you use 3 inch.


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## By-tor (Jan 31, 2021)

Thin Man said:


> The naturally bendy feather will forgive a riser swipe more so than a plastic vane.
> 
> However, if you _tune_ the vaned shafts to the bow, they are fine to shoot because ... they are tuned to the bow! Riser swipes should not be occurring at this point.
> 
> ...


I just padded my recurve bow shelf with extra fur and the plastic vanes shoot fine! As good as through the brush capture rest on my other bow? No, but not so bad that I need to run out and buy arrows with feathers ... I think once a lot of this stuff about plastic vanes off a shelf is a bunch of BS!


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## m60gunner (Mar 15, 2003)

Find the Youtube vid by Rick Barbee. He uses vanes off his recurve shelf and they aren’t those fancy “trad vanes”.


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## By-tor (Jan 31, 2021)

m60gunner said:


> Find the Youtube vid by Rick Barbee. He uses vanes off his recurve shelf and they aren’t those fancy “trad vanes”.


Do you know the name of the video? Would love to see it! I checked his Utube and looked like a hell of a lot of bike videos. 
But even if you can't direct me to it, thanks for your response ... I suck, only doing archery for less than 3 months, but recently got a new bow that's a cheap recurve off Amazon called the Lwano for only $60 ... I was looking to maybe get the Black Hunter for at least 2 times the price when a friend who has both said the Lwano is just as good & he shot plastic vanes off the shelf of the Lwano... so I got it, and love it! I have a nice recurve with an arrow capture rest, is it as good as that firing the arrows? No, bit it's not that bad at all, and I will get better with use! I think most of what we hear is pushy bull **** because as in many areas of our life, we have become pampered


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## Draven Olary (Jun 12, 2016)

Put a stick-on elevated rest on your trad bow and shoot the arrows you want.
Will cost you nothing but take out and put back the side plate when you are done.


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## 1canvas (Mar 29, 2009)

I never thought you could shoot vanes off the shelf or would even try to.


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

1canvas said:


> I never thought you could shoot vanes off the shelf or would even try to.


It depends on arrow tune and the size of the shelf. From my experience, most "trad" archers shoot arrows that are way too stiff to begin with (for some reason). Here's a short clip of what a properly tuned arrow looks like. Note how it never touches the riser and how much flex there is. This fellow would have no trouble shoot vanes off the shelf.


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## 6bloodychunks (Oct 26, 2005)

lol mr casto ,you beat me to it lol

many MANY people shoot way overspined arrows,
i believe this contributes to the belief that you cant shoot vanes off the shelf

if you can tune and have the proper spined arrows vanes are dooable i would think.

a properly tuned/spined arrow never touches the riser.


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## 3finger (Mar 29, 2018)

Having difficulty trying to understand how arrow storage/transportation and being competative at a archery tournament is at most a trivial consideration? How about doing a trial run on packing the vehicle for travel so there is ample room? As for using the OR arrows in the trad bow...... How about a trial run on that. Guys who win these tournaments usually have reserved a place in the vehicle for the trophy they'll be traveling home with. Preperation promotes confidence, confidence wins tournaments.


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## 1canvas (Mar 29, 2009)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> It depends on arrow tune and the size of the shelf. From my experience, most "trad" archers shoot arrows that are way too stiff to begin with (for some reason). Here's a short clip of what a properly tuned arrow looks like. Note how it never touches the riser and how much flex there is. This fellow would have no trouble shoot vanes off the shelf.


Wow, that’s amazing. I’ve always fletched my own arrows shooting a compound and was looking to make my first attempt at feathers. I am going to have to try an arrow with vanes. I can see how a stiff arrow would be an issue but for my traditional bows I try not to go to stiff for obvious tuning reasons.


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

If you want to know if your vanes are tuned, but on a broadhead the same weight as your 'tuned' field point.

Bowmania


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## 3finger (Mar 29, 2018)

Bowmania said:


> If you want to know if your vanes are tuned, but on a broadhead the same weight as your 'tuned' field point.
> 
> Bowmania


The guys having an arrow packaging condundrum Bowmania! Have a little compassion mate. Throwing broadheads into the mix just doesn't seem to be very kind!


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## Bowmania (Jan 3, 2003)

I always think more suggestions/information is good. Sure wasn't meant to be unkind. I would wager that if he tuned his arrows with broadheads and then shot the 900 with field points, he'd have a better score. His arrow would be better tuned.

Bowmania


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Bowmania,

I'm thinking you missed the joke.


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## 3finger (Mar 29, 2018)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> Bowmania,
> 
> I'm thinking you missed the joke.


SHould have used an emoji


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## vincenthanna (Feb 25, 2020)

You can but you need to turn in a cock feather towards the riser. Feathers are best off the shelf. If you really want to shoot vanes place a rest on your bow, like a weather rest from Bear or a flipper style from NAP.


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