# PVC pipe bows



## GPW

Brilliant !!! Gotta’ try that ... Thanks for the link Chup !!!!


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## BLACK WOLF

Chupacabras said:


> Very impressive. This fellow has talent. He has a series of how to vids.


Holy crap! I've made a PVC dry fire bow that I use for form practice...but I never thought PVC could be made into a bow that shape.

Ray :shade:


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## BowmanJay

A friend brought one out to our range last week, man that thing is an accident waiting to happen...Nice to know in an appocolyps we could make bows if we had too though


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## BLACK WOLF

BowmanJay said:


> A friend brought one out to our range last week, man that thing is an accident waiting to happen...Nice to know in an appocolyps we could make bows if we had too though


LOL...I agree. Now that's what I would call a true Zombie/Appocolyptic Bow :wink:

Ray :shade:


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## GPW

Seems these would make great Kiddie bows too .... Cheap and quick enough to make for all the grandkids to play with (supervised , of course) ... Little Zombies .... hahahahaha


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## Sanford

GPW said:


> Seems these would make great Kiddie bows too .... Cheap and quick enough to make for all the grandkids to play with (supervised , of course) ... Little Zombies .... hahahahaha


Here's a good link on doing it for the kids: http://www.tradbow.com/public/269.cfm


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## BLACK WOLF

GPW said:


> Seems these would make great Kiddie bows too .... Cheap and quick enough to make for all the grandkids to play with (supervised , of course) ... Little Zombies .... hahahahaha


There's an even simplier way of constructing a PVC bow that I think won't be stressing the PVC towards dangerous level for kids...but you are right. It can be a great kid's bow and cost effective.

The PVC bow I'm describing looks like a D shaped longbow.

Ray :shade:


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## BLACK WOLF

Sanford said:


> Here's a good link on doing it for the kids: http://www.tradbow.com/public/269.cfm


Perfect! :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## Sanford

Ray, for real little ones, I've seen folks use a shower curtain ring taped on, crosswise, as an arrow rest. It makes an ambidextrous capture rest, so all the kid has to do is insert the arrow, thus they are not dealing with fumbling the arrow on the rest while managing the back end of the arrow.


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## BLACK WOLF

Sanford said:


> Ray, for real little ones, I've seen folks use a shower curtain ring taped on, crosswise, as an arrow rest. It makes an ambidextrous capture rest, so all the kid has to do is insert the arrow, thus they are not dealing with fumbling the arrow on the rest while managing the back end of the arrow.


Even better for those lil ones. Cool :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## thorwulfx

I make the "D" style bows. They work pretty darned well. I've gotten a bunch of people started with these bows. Here's one in purple camo:


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## longbowdude

Seems like a person might be able to achieve a faster than normal trad bow using PVC. Not only do you have the limbs working like a normal bow but you also have roundness of the limb coming back to shape adding a little extra push. Kind of like the acs limb design but more....


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## thorwulfx

On the round ones, the weight of the material versus its level of spring tension holds it back. I've tried a few different methods for speeding the bows up, including a stiffened riser section, different bow lengths/pipe sizes, and even putting bamboo rod inside the PVC. With the standard "D" shape, I've found that the 3/4" PVC, 60" bow is the best. They don't put out a lot of energy, but they can be made with simple tools for a few bucks. Great way to share the fun with friends. I just wish it were as easy to make arrows!


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## GPW

PS. Do NOT tell the Primitive (stick bow ) guys about this , they’ll start their whining about Non natural materials ... Personally I don’t give a .... ... as long as it shoots ... 
Found a shedload of PVC in the garage, all sizes ... ready to start experimenting ... 

Thor , Nice D bow Dude !!!!! :thumbs_up


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## Sanford

GPW said:


> PS. Do NOT tell the Primitive (stick bow ) guys about this , they’ll start their whining about Non natural materials ... :thumbs_up


Heck, they whine about bamboo  Paint it wood-tone.


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## GPW

hahahaha, last time they were on about fast flight string ..... I just had to tell em Dacron wasn’t “Natural” either ... Duh !!!


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## Todd the archer

The man in the youtube video in the first post is Nick Tomihanna. He has done a lot experimenting with PVC bows. I have made several and their performance is amazing. Mine are horsebow styles averaging about 54" long and draw 50 to 55 pounds.

















Actually shoot smooth with little hand shock.

Todd the archer


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## Chupacabras

Thanks for the input Todd. Your bow looks really good. After you posted on the horse bow thread I googled it up. I am going to make one for a project this weekend. Any input on string length, brace and nock point height would be appreciated. Nick has a vid. on durabilty of his pvc bows. They survive dry fires, being locked up strung in a hot car, crap he even keeps some in his freezer to test for brittle PVC.


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## Sanford

Todd, that is amazing work!


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## BLACK WOLF

Todd the archer said:


> I have made several and their performance is amazing. Mine are horsebow styles averaging about 54" long and draw 50 to 55 pounds. Actually shoot smooth with little hand shock.


Nice job! :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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## Despain

thorwulfx said:


> I make the "D" style bows. They work pretty darned well. I've gotten a bunch of people started with these bows. Here's one in purple camo:
> 
> View attachment 1365544


We may have to make some of these for our club, since funding is getting harder to get. :thumbs_up


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## thorwulfx

If you guys are interested, I have a little article on how to make the simple bows here:

http://cavemangym.wordpress.com/2011/07/27/article-making-bows-caveman-style/


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## Todd the archer

Hi all, my brace height is 6" to 6 1/2". I make my own strings with long loops about 6" long made using 12 strands of fastflite. I braid the strands instead of flemish twist that way no twist is needed to keep the string together and keeps the loop from twisting up. Most of my bow have walnut siyahs with PVC overlays(what else) glued on with J-B weld.

Should mention the secret to making these bows work so well is the process of flattening the limbs. Really should check out Nick's Videos on youtube, he goes by backyard bowyer. He also put out a book on the subject called "The Impossible Bow". Everything I learned, I learned from his book an videos.

The first bow pictured probably has over 500 shots through it so far.


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## airwolf

good video , i had to mute it due to the dog though


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## GPW

Shucks !!! Got all my stuff ready to make a PVC bow , marked off , flattening board and everything, and then saw you need to use “fresh” PVC .... all my stock is 12 years old :eek2: ... off to the hardware store ...


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## Todd the archer

GPW, I believe the real issue is exsposure to UV which can make the PVC brittle over time. If your was kept away from sunlight you might be okay. But considering how cheap pipe is might as well get "fresh" PVC. 

I use 1" pipe which cost less than 2.00 per bow.

Todd


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## GPW

Todd, Thanks !! It’s been sitting in the corner of the Garage all this time ... I’ll just get some fresh while I’m out tomorrow ... passing right by a HD... and I’ve been saving ... :thumbs_up hahahaha
Amazing how Strong this stuff is ... after watching more of BBs videos , he really makes a wide variety of bows , some quite heavy ... and when they’re painted up , they look Super ... Like yours ...  

Just saw his video where he Overdraws the s**t of one, collapses the limb , and then fixes it ... with heat ..... Amazing !!!


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## Chupacabras

Going to a friends house who owns a plumbing company this weekend. I know he has a conduit bender somewhere. We have at least 7 kids in our group of shooters that need bow upgrades they are shooting some junker kiddie compounds they out grew about two years ago. 
Now all we need is an ILF version:tongue:


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## GPW

The Kiddies are gonna’ Love these bows ....


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## rembrandt

How in the world do they get the limbs flat like that? With heat?


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## GPW

Heat ... Yes !!! Be sure and watch the assorted YT videos by this young man ... Interesting ... I mentioned this to the guys I run with over on the small trailer forum , and now they’re figuring ways to use this heat bent and flattened PVC for trailer framing ... Everybody got a hunting trailer right ?


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## Todd the archer

I heat mine over the kitchen stove and use a heat gun for fine tuning.

Todd


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## GPW

Just got back from HD with some Fresh PVC ( feb 2012 ) , got my flattening jig made , and we’re ready to go !!! :thumbs_up But first a short nap, cause’ I’m Old ... :laugh:


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## sawtoothscream

that was awsome, thanks for the link.


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## GPW

Well, that didn’t work worth a (your word here) !!! My “heat gun” ~400F is *Not really up to the job* ... all I could get it to do was flop around a bit but couldn’t get it even flattened slightly ... This is Tough stuff ... Looks like the stove is the next candidate , or my propane cooker ... Back out for an Industrial heat gun ... :embara:


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## Todd the archer

Yeah, my stove is gas with a center burner. It helps when trying to heat the entire limb. 

Todd


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## buffrider

Do you think these would work for hunting deer.


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## Todd the archer

Just chrony some today. Got over 160 fps with a 485 grain wood arrow 55 [email protected]" draw.

People get deer with lesser equipment.

Todd


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## GPW

Todd, I’m really Jazzed by the prospect of a pipe bow that can reach normal wood bow speeds ... and be so light in hand ( and quick and cheap) ... 160fps is pretty respectable for most any traditional bow :thumbs_up ... Still thinking the “design profile " is the key to arrow speed ... the material certainly seems up to it, much room for experimentation , even on a strict budget ... 

Regarding Deer hunting .... You’re gonna’ HAVE to paint it something other than that Glowing White :mg: ... maybe a quick wrap of camo tape ... ?


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## buffrider

I so want one. Don't know if I should buy one off of someone or try and build my own. Don't want to stink up the house. Wife would be ticked. Lol


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## buffrider

Well I might build one tonight. I'm gonna message him of what I want and see what he suggests I do.


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## Todd the archer

Hey buff what kind of bow are you thinking f?

Todd


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## GPW

Guys, here’s the story, had to get a better heat gun , bought a Harbor freight heat gun, the metal Old school looking one ... it was on sale  ... Bent up two pipes as per the flattened youth bow video by BB (Nick)... 48” recurved at each end ... There was a “learning curve “ for heating , it takes a while to get it noodle soft enough to flatten properly .... I had to re-heat mine a couple times to get it right , and it still wasn’t perfect ... but that’s OK ... Getting the recurves bent wasn’t hard to do , but its absolutely imperative that you get the recurves perfectly Straight with each other and the limbs or the first time you try to string it , it Will twist .... grrrrr!!! Re-heated and bent straight. works fine ... All making me think next time I’ll use a bigger pot giving a shallower recurve bend .. Finally got things sorted ... gave it the pull test and it feels pretty stout for a bow this size , certainly Not a kiddie bow ... I’d guess ` 35lb at 28” .. No problem drawing it ... high early draw weight ensures good cast and it shoots a 32” wooden arrow pretty Zippy (sorry no chronograph) ... although I wouldn’t hunt Deer with it ... not just yet ... 
I’d now say , for the first one , best make a longbow , fairly straight , pretty easy .... no twisting ... 
And yes, it does take a little set after the initial pulls (which @28” was actually a bit long for a bow this length :mg but no problem for this little beastie ... Going to leave it strung up for now (Artificial sinew string) see what happens ... 6.5” fistmele .
It IS a pretty quick way to build a shootable bow ... I’m liking it so far ...  Got enough PVC to build several more... expect things will get more precise as we get More practice flattening and bending a bit ... FUN !!!

Ps. never got smelly , worked in the studio ,windows open, fans on ... no stinky !!! I kept the pipe moving over the heat , no burns or scorch marks ... Lucky so far ...:thumbs_up


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## rembrandt

I'm impressed......who woulda thought?


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## buffrider

Todd the archer said:


> Hey buff what kind of bow are you thinking f?
> 
> Todd


Well something I can hunt with.


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## Todd the archer

Not to let GPW out do me here is another one I just made except for the finish.
















It's about 55" nock to nock, draws 47 pounds at 27". Shows how versatile PVC is as a material to work with. Kinda feel like a glass blower when working this stuff. GPW is right no smell heating and working this stuff.

These bow can easily be made into takedowns as well. Think I will try that on the next one.

Todd


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## Todd the archer

Buff, is there a certain style you are leaning toward. How about draw weight and overall length. I'll try to give suggestion if I can.

Todd


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## buffrider

Well I'd like a recurve. I have a 30 inch draw and I'd like as much poundage that I can get. It's for hunting deer so above 50LBS would be good I guess unless you think i need more.


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## buffrider

I'm not really worried about size as long as its compact enough to climb into a tree stand and it not get in the way.


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## Todd the archer

I think a 60" piece of 1" PVC would give you soming you can hunt with. Also you can fine tune the poundage by ajusting how much reflex you put into it.

Todd


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## GPW

Todd, really NICE looking 55”  ... Like you , I’m leaning to the more reflex /deflex design , just a preference I’ve acquired over the years ... Fast , smooth shooters , not as Tricky to string/brace as full recurves ... So that’s next on the list ... Maybe a 66” RD bow ... 

Odd thing is the tiller , pretty easy with PVC , almost automatic ... Usually the Toughest part of bowmaking ... wood bows anyway ...
Another point ... the tip nocks ... I did my best to completely smooth the nock ends where the string made contact ... All I had on hand on hand was some artificial sinew , and not much of that ... Need to find a good (economical) string material .... BB says nylon parachute cord ... wonder where he gets it ...?? 
Was thinking about using the standard B50 , maybe with some small leather pads on the nocks to reduce abrasion ... I dunno’ ? Siyahs look like a good idea too .. guess that’s down the road ...


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## buffrider

Todd the archer said:


> I think a 60" piece of 1" PVC would give you soming you can hunt with. Also you can fine tune the poundage by ajusting how much reflex you put into it.
> 
> Todd


Yea that would be a good compact bow for my size. I'm 6'3 so that should be good. Now if I want to you regular bow string from a store how do I make the tip nocks small enough for the string loop to go around it. I saw in one of BBs vids he was working on a bow and I saw the tips were starting to be sanded down to be just like a regular fiberglass/ wooden recurve.


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## buffrider

Also, BB mentions that white PVC can be brittle in cold weather. Where I live it can get freezing during deer season. How would I be able to wrap the PVC or what to keep it warm and not freeze and break?


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## GPW

Buff , as with any material , there’s always some limitations to the use ... guess the Cold weather Test is next ... Just not now (hot) ? 

Strung up the second bow , and promptly collapsed (folded ) a limb ... :mg: So did as BBsaid , re heated it , fold/crease popped right out ... back to normal ... Amazing!!!  

So while I was heating, made it a more reflex deflex bow , softening the recurves and deflexing the handle ... Nice ... no twist problems , still seems to store a lot of energy ... Thinking this may be the way to go for me ... More longbow guy , always had problems with recurves... and the RD bows seemed to shoot as fast anyway ...


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## GPW

Then made a 3/4” 60” RD bow ... Light!!! But *Smooth* drawing ... seems the entire bow is bending equally, the handle could be a bit stiffer, it bends slightly too .. The 1” PVC probably more appropriate for a hunting weight weapon... More “experimenting /bending is indicated ...


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## GPW

Update: Went out the back door and shot some arrows ... These bows shoot pretty GOOD , stronger(pull) than the kiddie bows , decent cast and at my usual 29” draw length ... No problem... Sure can’t beat the price !!! 
Probably not for everyone because you really need to already know about bows to do it right ... More Art than project, skills required ... But they sure shoot ...:thumbs_up 
And for we old retired guys , just a little Fun Archery project ... Quick and Thrifty too ...


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## buffrider

Now how about string for these? How do I find one with big enough loop for the nicks on the flattened PVC?


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## GPW

Buff , I just made up some strings of stuff that were just laying around... Artificial sinew , kite string , old spare strings... I did have one commercial string on the newest one (today’s 60") and it would fit over the pin nocks , but I had to taper the very tip to use the side nocks ...

BTW, it does shoot Nice !!! Thinking 1” PVC would make a more “Hunting Weight” bow ... Guess that’s next !!


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## buffrider

Well I just bought two 5 foot long pipes. One is 1 inch for my hunting bow and the other is a 3/4 inch for my wife's bow cause she can't even pull my 40 pound recurve. These will be my first so I'll post soon. I also go the wood to make the flattening jig.


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## thorwulfx

Some people have talked about cold tolerance. Here's a video of me shooting one of mine during a snowstorm. Yeah, I'd stay away from weather way below freezing, but I'd do that with a wood bow, too. Enjoy.


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## buffrider

Holy cow. I just watched BBs 6 video series of making the recurve horse bow. That is so gorgeous. I want mine to look just like that. Ha. So awesome.


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## Todd the archer

Nice video Thorwulfx. 

A couple of observations with my bows anyway:

They are very quiet inspite of using 12 strand fastflite strings with no silencers.

For some reason I get no string slap on my arm or wrist at all and they are only braced 6" to 6 1/2", I don't even wear an armgaurd!

Todd


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## GPW

Just a thought on flattening ... You really have to heat it up till it’s very soft to successfully flatten it ... takes me several minutes of back and forth ... Be patient , if it’s still too cold it won’t flatten right ... You want “that Taper” ...
And , I’ve been working on a concrete floor and am thinking it sucks the heat away from the PVC too quickly ... Wood or linoleum like BB has may be better during the initial flattening stages ... 
And be SURE you constantly check for straightness as the PVC tends to “walk” as it cools ... Not a problem as you can re heat it , but that somewhat deforms the taper as it swells back to a pipe as it’s heated ... Takes a little practice to get right ... I’m still practicing , nothing Perfect yet ... 
Don’t mash the handle too thin as the recurves tend to twist there when stringing ... Just what I’ve found ...


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## thorwulfx

Todd, 

Thanks. The bows are very quiet, almost silent. I use plain old thin rope for my strings, usually nylon or polypro. Probably doesn't do much for speed, but I wanted it to be as cheap and easy as possible for anyone to replicate. My suspicion is that they're quiet because the PVC material is non-resonant in nature.


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## GPW

Last night at band practice , I showed one of the guys who is a bow hunter .... His first words were... “Na Unh ??? “ Much like the rest of us , he didn’t believe PVC would endure the stresses ... we walked outside and he shot a few arrows ... Now he wants one , and a couple for the grandkids ... Back to the Ho De Po for more “bow stock” ...


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## buffrider

Now how does he get that horn and wood look.?


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## GPW

Decorative Painting !!!! he describes it in a video ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfzYKDSmV18&feature=context-vrec


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## buffrider

Wow. That's kewl. I'll be doing that.


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## GPW

Although these bows may Not be considered strictly traditional , because they’re new. They sure are Quick and Easy to make and they really Shoot ... Guessing someone will have to bring down the "Big 5" before PVC bows are taken seriously ... But then , who cares?? This is all for FUN !!!


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## pksnipr

late to the thread but, i stumbled onto these youtube vids last week and have made 5 of his bows already and all of them have shot great. only one i haven't shot is the 50 lb takedown recurve as the strings i have don't have large enough loops. ordered his books off of amazon as well. they go into a lot more detail and he even shows you how to make a bow out of home depot wood. had never shot a bow till last sunday when i made the youth bow and now i'm hooked.


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## buffrider

Which one of his books is the best?


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## Warbow

Todd the archer said:


> GPW, I believe the real issue is exsposure to UV which can make the PVC brittle over time. If your was kept away from sunlight you might be okay. But considering how cheap pipe is might as well get "fresh" PVC.


I'd say that the real problem is that PVC pipe is made to different formulations around the country with the only standards being how well it works as a *pipe*, not as a spring. Being unbreakable isn't part of the standard, nor is a specific elasticity. Different manufacturers have different formulas, and they can even vary from batch to batch, with different amounts of things like plasticizers and UV stabilizers. It is one of the problems of re-purposing a material from from its intended use to another--the standards aren't made with your use in mind.


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## GPW

War , the PVC I got at the Ho De Po seems to work fine .... and for $1.99 for a 10’ length , it certainly is cheap enough to experiment with ... Now I must admit it doesn’t possess near the Traditional “MOJO” of a well crafted wood or hybrid bow , but may be a good 
"gateway” introduction to Archery (kiddies) and bow-making newbies , thrifty enough for we Old guys (retired on a budget) ... Same properties of bow design apply , so what is learned in PVC may well translate into wood or laminated wood/fiberglas ... 
In other words , it may be a great way for folks thus interested to get involved in Archery with a minimum expenditure ... I recall , even many years ago , Archery was expensive (relatively) ... or at least was for me ... (99% member ) 
And it doesn’t require any woodworking skills ... or Tillering skills , which we know from experience can be tricky for the new guys ... :mg:

Besides , they really shoot well ... amazing ... considering it’s a cheap piece of free Ken pipe ...


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## Chupacabras

I am working on a couple of 3/4" horse bows, one is 48" the other is 52" Anyone have suggestions on string lengths I will need? Any suggestions on what sciyah shapes work best? I found a couple of pics . Is it better to have a bridge for the string to sit on?


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## GPW

Chup, you started all this and now I’m “hooked like a Fish !!!” :jeez: 

As we recall , BB mentioned the string as being 4” less than the bow length ... Good place to start anyway ... 
Those are sure some Nice looking syiahs (sorry I never can spell that right) ... On the string bridges, syiah setback and length, it may be a personal preference, gotta’ try both to see what works best for you.. like a recurve really , the more severe the “recurve" , the more speed (high early draw weight) , but the less stable it becomes and stresses the limbs more ... that’s in wood bows anyway ... probably the same for PVC ... or seems so anyway ...


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## GPW

Now just on an Odd note .... After seeing Avatar, I really wanted to make one of those 10 footers’  ... and some long “log" arrows as in the movie... Silly perhaps , but Not to shoot, but as a "Decorative element" ... It sure wound look GOOD over the mantle or fireplace , or behind a desk ... Easy to do with a stick of this stuff .... cheap too ... a little paint, couple feathers, some leather wrappings ...done ... 
Being an Artist for a living , I’m always on the lookout for “decorative elements , object’dArt" to sell to my “collectors” ... Apologies for being OT , just thought I’d mention it for you "creative bohemian" types ... hahahahahaha 
Makes me wonder how many folks will be hawking their PVC bows at the next ”Gathering” ... ???


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## pksnipr

@ buff. the "backyard bowyer's guide" covers wooedn bows almost exclusively. "The Impossible Bow" is dedicated to PVC bows only. there are about 15 bows in the book. so far it's very informative and answers a lot of the questions that aren't covered in the youtube channel. the bows are pretty cool but they all seem to be revolving around his basic 40 lb horse bow.

on another note i received my first "real" recurve bow yesterday. after shooting only the PVC bows I have made there is a major improvement that i didn't expect. the PVC bows are great and I will continue to tinker with them I was not prepared for the smoothness, accuracy and silence of a true recurve. I will add though that practicing for a week on the youth PVC recurve enabled me to pick up the new bow and hit bulls at 15 yds on the first 10 arrows. I think the draw weight is the only thing that is dramatically different. imho they are a great training tool and i cant wait to build another one.


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## buffrider

I'll be making my first one today. It will be a youth bow for my wife. I just made the flattening jig. This is gonna be fun.


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## buffrider

So I started it. The hardest part is make the ends taper. Cutting it is the hardest. Does it have to be perfect?


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## GPW

Buff, there is a slight learning curve , and you really have to heat the pipe up to get a nice taper , but it really doesn’t have to be perfect , and you can always go back , re-heat it and do it again ... :thumbs_up


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## GPW

Went over to the guitar factory ( www.neworleansguitar.com/ ) today looking for riser woods... Gave my buddy Vinnie the 48” recurve and some arrows ... ended up shooting in the shop ... :mg: He was blown away how well the little bow shot and how quiet and fast it shot too...


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## Todd the archer

I don't know what is more fun, making these cool bows or seeing peoples reactions on seeing then shoot and then when you tell them what it is made of.

Usually goes like this: Nice bow you got there, what kind is it? You tell them and they go "No way!"

Todd


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## buffrider

Todd the archer said:


> I don't know what is more fun, making these cool bows or seeing peoples reactions on seeing then shoot and then when you tell them what it is made of.
> 
> Usually goes like this: Nice bow you got there, what kind is it? You tell them and they go "No way!"
> 
> Todd


Thats awesome. I did the tapering hot glued it. Looks really sketchy so I might just go get some heat shrink. Then got to paint it the way my wife wants. Then get string for it. I'm gonna use real bow string. Heck I'm having so much fun with this that I might sell some.


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## GPW

Been bowmaking for ~ 20 years now , always looking for the Odd material to make a bow with ... This stuff is certainly the Easiest and Quickest way to make a serviceable bow... and it’s so CHEAP ... :thumbs_up That this stuff actually works is Amazing !!! 
Not near as messy as making a wood bow .... or fiberglass... 
Still thinking of a better way to evenly heat the PVC ... thinking about this , easy and it’s outside .... no chance of fumes or burning the pipe ... Thinking this would only be good for doing several bows at a time .. mass production , maybe for the grandkids .. ???


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## GPW

Safety note : Since I live out in the woods and have a safe place to make a small fire that’s OK, In a normal backyard , one could put a small BBQ under the metal pipe ... Just an idea ?

Buff , things keep going like this and I’m sure we’ll see some of these showing up for sale at fun shoots and “gatherings” ... :thumbs_up Kiddie bows , especially thrifty ones , are always popular sellers ...


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## pksnipr

made a pair of youth bows the other day and tried em out yesterday. i was not in a hurry but wasn't paying close enough attention to detail and cut the end knocks wrong. now they've got enough twist that their accuracy is compromised. so far i've found that the recurves and the knocks seem to be the easiest thing to screw up. also been working on an aluminum flattening jig with hinges, screws and guides that will make the taper way more consistent and won't kill your knees. thought about clamps but they don't apply the pressure over a great enough area. also the aluminum would allow the bow to remain pliable longer than flattening on a concrete floor. let you know how it turns out.


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## buffrider

Well what would be a good heat gun for me to buy that would be really inexpensive?


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## GPW

PK, That jig sure sounds like a Good idea !!! :thumbs_up ... you could even heat the jig up too ... 

Buff, I got mine at Harbor Freight , it was on sale for 40 bucks , and for my limited use , it’s just fine ....I looked at their cheapest model and that would probably have worked too ... ~ 15 bucks ... Still you have to do a LOT of heating ... 4-5 minutes of carefully moving it back and forth , if you don’t keep it moving , it will scorch ... (yellow) :mg:

On my next bows , I’m drawing a centerline down the pipe just to facilitate keeping things lined up ...


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## GPW

And more ... Didn’t like the shape of one bow , so heated it gently and re bent it to a newer and now faster and stronger (#) shape ... You can infinitely adjust and tweek these bows to do what you want , the trick is to heat it only till it gets a little soft , and doesn’t go runny ... Helps to align and Cool everything on the floor ... these recurved ones seem pretty sensitive to twisting while cooling ... I’m still Learning !!!


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## GPW

A little paint and a Leather grip and it’s starting to look like a bow now ...


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## Todd the archer

Looks really nice. Putting the finishing touches on really fools people as to what they are.

Todd


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## GPW

Todd , Really huh !!!! Thanks !!! Must paint the others now ...  This is FUN !!!


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## gnome

? Has anyone tried using the gray electrical pvc?


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## Todd the archer

Yes it will but the bow will come out lighter in poundage, alsowhile better in cold weather not good to leave out in the sun as it will lose it.s shape


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## GPW

Still amazed these things shoot so well!!! Wood is such a Noble bow material , this is just a piece of “pipe” ...:embara: So easy to decorate too... I didn’t even sand mine , just went over the surface with a Scotchbrite pad , wiped it down well with a clean rag and 91% rubbing alcohol , then painted it with Krylon Fusion for plastics (hammered finish ) ... No trouble at all ... :thumbs_up

I really haven’t had this much FUN making bows in years  .. and while most would look at these and consider them “kiddie” bows , we’ve yet to build one light enough for a child to draw ...


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## GPW

Just another paint job , with black fade this time .... string wrapped around the handle while the Duco Cement dries on the leather grip ... felt arrow pass .. The secret of doing the color fade is do the light color first , then the dark , then come back in with the lighter color to “blend” ... :thumbs_up

Before and after pics ... a BIG improvement in the looks for only a few minutes spraying ...


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## Todd the archer

Your paint fade job looks great. Was thinking the same thing but you beat me to it. Maybe on the next one.

Just have to wrap the grip on the last one I made. Will post pics later.

Todd


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## scout4

Neat looking bow OB! Hows it shoot for ya? What arrows you shooting out of a bow like that? scout4


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## GPW

Been shooting our 5/16” Ramin wood dowel homemade arrows @32” out of it ... shoots where I look ...but most of my shot testing has been confined to < 20 yards... As one would think , the shorter bows shoot the same arrow faster (48”) , the longer bows (60” ) seem more stable but a tiny bit slower , but more "comfortable” to shoot... 
Now anticipating building a few out of 1” PVC or larger for a much Heavier “Hunting" bow ... Going after the "Big 5" ... Rabbit , squirrel , armadillo, Raccoon , and the wild piggies ... hahahahahahaha (That’s the "Big 5" in my neighborhood)


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## scout4

Ha!Ha! Yeah thats a big high 5 if you get one! Ha! The big 5 here are squirrel, rabbit, possum, grounghog, and skunk!! scout4


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## RabbitAssasin

i made a couple of these bows, even though they only turned out to be 5 (flattened tooo much!) or 10 pounds, they are good for working on form and i havnt even got my #40 longbow yet but have already figured out where and how i draw best (straight/very mildly bent arm, slight cant and i get about 27-27.5 inch draw! even though my compound w/ release i draw 26.5/27) ive practised and im very confident i can easily repeat it and very comfy to handle, they are great bows to practice and work on things! though to make a stronger one should you have 2 peices inside each other?


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## Todd the archer

Rabbit, what size and kind of pipe are you using? The flattening should be tapered not flat the entire length.

With 1" pipe I get 50 to 55 pound bows. I think with 3/4" pipe you should get 30 to 40 pounds. Don't need to put one inside the other.

Todd


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## Todd the archer

Here is my lastest one, before and after finishing (note: lower siyah is same color as upper just the lighting).

















Todd


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## gnome

how or what do you use to make a rest? or is it straight off the knuckle ?


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## GPW

Gnome , I shoot off my knuckle , have the scars to prove it .. But a simple leather (or other) rest can be added ... BB has a video of this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipQjpgnAdaE&list=UU_U6Yek0YgKHN_A-iTAwZbg&index=4&feature=plcp


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## GPW

Todd, That sure is a Sweet looking bow ... !!! :thumbs_up 
Mine still seem to have some “imperfections” , but the ability to tweak the shape is still new to me (wood bowyer), so it’s FUN... Still thinking about a jig or bow form to make the bends completely uniform and insure a modicum of repeatability ... Something with the taper built in ... heat it , press it , shoot it ... Still pondering this ... 

note: this jig idea is just in case I run into a pack of Cub Scouts that want em’... Brings to mind the last occasion where I had to make 40+ chuck gliders for the Cubbies ... AARGH !!!!


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## Todd the archer

The ability to tweak the shape is what is so cool. I have made simular bows with different side profiles, and find for some reason the ones with a set back handles seem to shoot smoother than the ones that deflex right at the handle.

Todd


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## GPW

Todd, even my straight handle ones , once taken a set, have a good amount of deflex :mg:... The newly re-bent set back handle shape sure increased the poundage , and yet still seems stable and comfortable ... so far ...
Here’s a pic of all three painted ... The last one (the small bow) I just misted the black on lightly , then painted the ends..


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## jrdrees

Fun stuff! I made a couple standard PVC long bows for friends that come over.


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## GPW

Jr, that was my idea too ... Didn’t really care for anybody shooting my “babies “ (2 old 21’st Century longbows made especially for me ...irreplaceable ) ... nothing they can do to damage a PVC bow , nothing I can’t replace in a few minutes ... for a dollar or two...


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## GPW

OK, back with an idea of a Jig to make this PVC bow flattening /bending more repeatable , smooth and accurate ... less distortions of the back and belly surfaces . Similar to the bow forms we use for FG bows ... just hinged on one end .. Stop blocks allow for the adjustability of the Taper for different size material. 
Theoretically , PVC bow making could be limited to a few simple processes... heat , bend, cool ... out pops a bow ... theoretically ??? 
What do you guys think ... ?

Ps. Now thinking the top part of the form by the stop blocks would be radiused' to allow for a smooth transition into the handle ... Just like BBs new tapering jig. Just a thought ..


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## GPW

Update: The transition into the handle ...


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## buffrider

I like that jig idea. Only problem is you would have to have multiples for different sized bows but this would be good for mass production if someone were to sell these. How could you make tapering the tips easier?


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## GPW

Buff , was just thinking of a “on size fits all” kinda’ thing ... like BBs , the stop blocks being adjustable for different thicknesses of PVC. I just put the gentle recurve in because that seems they way we’re going , but it could be flat and really mash those tips flat ..or whatever... just an idea and scrap wood so far ... 
Mass production ... schmaybe” ???


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## buffrider

Ok I understand. Cause I was actually thinking of getting really good at making these and then possibly selling them for cost of product and maybe a couple bucks more. Not to get rich of them just to have fun and spread the love of the sport.


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## GPW

I’ll bet you could sell a shedload of these all day long at an Archery event ... if the price was reasonable , which means they would have to be made quickly (but Good) , Thinking ~ the $20 range with a paracord string ... the kiddies would love it !!!! Wouldn’t take long to save up enough coin to buy most any bow you want ... 
I’m a believer in a hobby supporting itself ... :wink:


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## buffrider

I can tell you are a hobby supporting believer.... ha And $20 is exactly what i was thinkng..... Hey GPW wanna go into buisness together... lol


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## GPW

Hey now !! There you go, Great idea .... but you have to learn how to spell business first .... :laugh: hahaha (just kidding :wink My wife is from OK... :thumbs_up


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## buffrider

Lol. Business. Well I do a social media marketing business so you could make the majority of them and I sell. Ha. This could actually work. Lol.


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## GPW

That’s COOL !!!! I’m dead awful at marketing , good at making ...  It’s a curse!!!


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## J-san

You should go to a renaissance festival and sell your PVC bows. We have a fairly decent festival here in MN spanning August-September yearly, and there is a bowyer who sells self bows for several hundred a piece. They resemble the rattan stick bows that normally go for a hundred or less. Despite being way overpriced, he usually ends the season with an empty trailer.


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## dx2

WOW, nice bows Todd and GPW.

Impressed with how you have run with this, GPW.

I have a couple little pvc bows that I have made for my nephews to shoot when they come over. I didn't have any instruction or blueprint whatsoever and it shows in the final product...but, they love 'em. This takes it to a whole 'nother level and I feel the need...the need to tinker and make something better.


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## GPW

Dx2, just another Archery addiction .... guess when I make a couple hundred of em’ , I’ll burn out ... 

Really , a bow for a dollar ... can’t even buy a pack of gum for a dollar anymore ...  :thumbs_up More money for BEER .... hahahahaa


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## buffrider

J-san said:


> You should go to a renaissance festival and sell your PVC bows. We have a fairly decent festival here in MN spanning August-September yearly, and there is a bowyer who sells self bows for several hundred a piece. They resemble the rattan stick bows that normally go for a hundred or less. Despite being way overpriced, he usually ends the season with an empty trailer.


Yea our renaissance festival is huge here in Oklahoma. It takes place at the castle of Muskogee. I've never gone from the 20 years I've lived here. I think it's going on now but don't know.


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## GPW

Buff , discussed this jig thingie’ with my buddy who also makes bows (and some really FINE guitars) , and he suggested a few things such as “walls" on either side of the jig to align the pipe , prevent any chance of the limbs getting crooked ... Naturally this would require a “tapered” jig , sideways , to allow for the wideness increase from the handle to the tip ... so basically , we’d require a different jig for each size pipe ....
Also he suggested making the jig long enough so the other side of the bow was always held in alignment too...that would have to be a tapered fit too ... 
Looking for a process where the pipe is heated , inserted into the tapering jig , cooled , flipped end for end and process repeated ...
Maybe requiring a separate jig not only for each size pipe , but for each style and length bow bow ... recurves , deflex, etc. 
This is getting complicated , but may be worthwhile for mass production ... certainly Not for just home use ... unless you had a Bunch of kids or grandkids ... Still thinking kiddie bows , a “gateway” bow for further Archery interest and development ... The kiddies now are the future of Archery ...


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## buffrider

Yea that's what I was saying. it would totally work. Say 3 styles of bow: recurve, long, and horse. Also jigs for all the sizes of pipe then jigs for the length of bow. That's alot of jigs. But would work and still inexpensive.


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## GPW

Now have to figure a way to evenly heat the pipe , The heat gun works but only heats from the outside , thinking the boiling water method would be better and quicker since it heats outside AND inside too ... no chance of burning that way , the pipe anyway ...


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## Sanford

GPW said:


> Now have to figure a way to evenly heat the pipe , The heat gun works but only heats from the outside , thinking the boiling water method would be better and quicker since it heats outside AND inside too ... no chance of burning that way , the pipe anyway ...


A guy who makes custom stirrups for saddles had a method he explained, whereas he could bend/mold large diameter PVC pipe into shape and flatten using steam. Never saw the rig, but from his explanation, seemed in my mind that he used his mold and ran steam through the PVC to heat, bend, and mold.


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## GPW

Sanford , Thanks , that’s a great idea ... :thumbs_up


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## buffrider

That would be cool to see work.


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## Sanford

Like I said, I only ever saw finished product. Stream generating seems easy enough to accomplish, yet, would warn anyone, steam is dangerous stuff on several levels - severe burns or risk of explosion. Be careful if ever thinking of that method.

Oh, and probably make sure it's not hot water PVC pipe you are using . BTW, neat looking bows posted.


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## GPW

Steam does appear to be a good way of heating the pipe , especially on a more “automated" system , the whole bow being bent/tapered in one step , sorta’ like a traditional bow form, but for the more “backyard bowyer” (us ) the boiling water in an old pipe seems much easier to do ... only slightly safer as caution would still be required ... yet it still heats the inside of the pipe too , which is where most of the bending /collapsing needs to happen ... 
Just again ... this is only practical if you’re planning on making a Lot of bows .... for one or two , the heat gun works fine , just takes time and patience, and lots of “readjusting" to keep it straight...
Starting on some heavier weight bows to further test this material ... 1” ID PVC ... which “should” put us up to some serious “Hunting” poundage ... or so we hope ...


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## pksnipr

tried out the sched 80 bow he put up a few weeks ago. that stuff is a bear to work with. i'm about 225 and the force of the pipe trying to return to its original shape almost lifted me up. also it holds heat much better and longer than sch 40 so it's an event trying to flatten it. so far it won't flatten anywhere near like the white pipe but i'm gonna finish it up and use some clamps to hold it together for the recurves. next project is gonna be trying to taper the youth recurve limbs like bb's 80 lb longbow. if that works i'm working on a 1" recurve that i plan on doing the same thing to. the problem so far is finding appropriately sized pieces of shrink tube. i'm thinking it's probably gonna require a bit more of a jig than just a pot. i'm thinking about using a 6" black iron/coupling bolted to a board and a few c clamps and heating as i go letting the weight of the bow do the work rather than trying to bend the whole curve at one time. wish i new how to post pics it'd probably illustrate it a bit better. anybody know if u can re heat shrink tube? or is it one and done? it'd make it a lot easier if i could shrink tube the taper before i bend the limbs. i'll let u know how it turns out.


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## GPW

PK, Big dia. heat shrink tubing is available at the better Electronics parts suppliers ... but it’s not Cheap ...and once shrunk , stays shrunk ... you can even get the stuff with a weatherproof adhesive inside.. 

Thinking if sch.80 is that much a “Bear” , then maybe just a round “horse” type bow would work , no tapering ...stuff’s so Thick , it’s gotta’ make a higher # bow anyway eh ? Just wondering ... 

PK, please send Pics for us to drool over...


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## aread

Harbor Freight has several heat guns. One is only $14.00 and has a dual heat range. A cheap tool like this will probably last a lot longer on the lower range of 572 degrees.

Would this be hot enough for the schedule 40 bows?

The higher range and the other heat guns go up to 1100 degrees.

Thanks,
Allen


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## buffrider

Thanks I'll check those heat guns out. Stove top takes to long.


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## GPW

Allen , I’m using the bigger HF metal ,round hair dryer looking thing , and still it takes a while to heat sch.40 ... @1100 F Couple minutes anyway ... The less expensive HG should work ... and you always have 90 days on it , so you can take it back if it breaks .. We found dropping heat guns takes them out much faster that wearing them out ... Don’t do that ..


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## aread

Thanks GPW. 

It seems that this is like other tool purchases. It pays to get the better, more durable tool to start with.

I'm really looking forward to trying a PVC bow. It appeals to my tightwad nature. 

Allen


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## GPW

Quote: "It appeals to my tightwad nature.” .... Probably the Sole reason why I jumped on this PVC bow thing in the first place ... :thumbs_up

Got my 550 Paracord in for strings ... Everybody seems to like it ...? guess a bowline knot would be appropriate ...?

Not to be too OT , but found another use for this method ... Currently painting the house , there are areas up high I have to “cut in” ...~ 10’ high .. so my new idea is to heat the end of some 1” sch.80 I have laying around and press a brush into it .... Instant brush on a pole ... no shaky ladder to deal with ... PVC .. Fun stuff ...


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## pksnipr

@ gpw. thanks for the info on the shrink tube. i think the clamp bend before the shrink is the route im gonna have to take. about pics i'll see what i can do. the whole photo posting thing alludes me. and the sche 80 bow at the same dimensions as the youth recurve is supposed to yield a 55 lb draw weight. also i noticed the sch 80 to a bit more flexible than the 40 when not flattened. i feel it would make a more "lazily" performing bow. i think the extra material being compressed is what makes it perform better. just thinking out loud with that one. on the heat gun issue, i bought the wagner model at home depot for 20 bucks and promptly returned it the next day for the milwaukee that bb uses. it is massively more powerful and the heat is much more evenly distrubuted. i think i spent 70 bucks on it but it's worth it if u plan on making more than just a couple and if u don't have any help. don't have a HF around my parts so i can't say about them. anyways i'll see if i can get some pics in soon.


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## GPW

Flattening it , does spread the effecting working area over a larger area , reducing the tension and compression stresses on the back and belly material , some say it weakens , but in my book , anything that makes it Safer is good , and it does seem the nice taper imparts a better arc to the drawn limbs ... 
I saw where BB has a video where he says the white pipe is a better performer ... could be the increased mass of the sch. 80 too ...??? And the gray takes more of a set ... 

Tried the 550 Paracord, used a bowline in each end with a Yosemite finish ... Holding ... It does stretch a bit ... arrow nocks seem to fit just fine ...


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## GPW

Been reading other than the BB you Tube site , where some are concerned about PVC bows shattering ... especially in colder climates... Being Hot here most of the time , PVC tends to just collapse when over stressed . I tried this by overdrawing a PVC bow waaaaay back and it just folded at the point of highest stress (mid limb) ... and was fixed (BB , You Tube method) with the heat gun and shoots fine now ...
A few considerations for colder weather hunting : 
1. As BB mentions PVC is dated , so you want to use the Newest pipe you can < a year old preferable ...
2. For cold weather using the Gray PVC electrical pipe has been said to be “safer” ...may be a better choice . 
3. After making a few of these , we find the PVC responds much like wood does .... If the bow design is poor , there will be high stress areas that may (or may not) be a problem ... and the PVC will take a “set" if overdrawn ... personally am working on getting the bows to bend evenly throughout the length of the limbs ... much as with a wooden bow , and NEVER drawing it beyond it’s intended draw length ... the PVC is No crutch for poor Tiller ... Shoots like wood if you get it right ... :thumbs_up


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## catkinson

My p.e. elementary classes loved them!


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## GPW

Cat, just that one pic seems to make it all worthwhile ... :thumbs_up


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## pksnipr

thats a great pic. on the schedule 80 frontier i believe i have figured out a better way to not just taper the limbs but do it almost identically on both sides and reduce any body twist to the pipe at the same time. my jig will work for sched 40 as well and any pipe up to i believe about 3 inches. basically all i did was make a bottom for the jig out of a very nice and flat 1x12. in hindsight which is always 20/20 i probably could've just used a 1x6 or 1x8. the process also involves putting a hole in at least one of the limbs. i don't think a 5/16 hole at about 10 inches from the tip is going to matter that much but, i have yet to string this bow so don't quote me. planning on trying a few different roads this weekend and hoping to get about 6 - 10 basic bows flattened so i can tinker a little with the ideas that have been floating around in my head. like i said in an earlier post i'm not too good with the whole photo posting thing but if anyone is interested in my jig shoot me a pm with ur email and i'll take some pics of it with the process i used. that way someone who knows a little more about computers may be able to post them on this forum. i'll let u know how it goes.


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## buffrider

Yea just send them to me. [email protected]


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## pksnipr

@ buff. i'll be flattening some more tomorrow morning. i'll take pics and send em to u sometime this weekend.


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## GPW

An old very Traditional Archery buddy came by yesterday , he saw these and Freaked out !!! Just HAD to shoot em’ ... He was impressed ... :thumbs_up As he left , he mentioned he was going to stop on the way home to buy some "pipe bow" material ... This is ADDICTIVE !!! :mg:


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## pksnipr

i hear that. i'm hooked!


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## GPW

PK, I really think the “Lure” of these bows is how Friendly the material is to work with to produce a decent workable bow. We’ve carved waaay too many trees into bows before , and wood can be real temperamental ...this PVC seems to “want” to be a bow ... that and it’s so Free Ken Cheap to experiment with ...  
I’m hooked bad , can’t get away ... :mg: hahahaha


----------



## Chupacabras

Just finished my first one. 3/4" pvc. 44" strung/ 6.5" Brace. It will cast a 400 grain plus arrow with a punch. No finger pinch shooting split finger.


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## Todd the archer

Looks great! How many pounds does it pull? Have you tried shooting it without the silencers? I have found mine very quiet even with 12 strand fastflite without silencers.

Todd


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## GPW

Wicked looking stick (er, pipe) there Chup ... Very COOL !!!  :thumbs_up Pray tell us more !!!


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## Chupacabras

The string is temporary. I had to cut one down to be able to shoot it. The bow is very quiet, silencers made no difference. I will leave them off when I get the new one made for this bow. I do not have a scale but it feels like 40 plus pounds. I draw 28 inches. Was shooting 2 ft over the target at 20 yards with point on using 400 plus grain arrow.One of my gold tip ultralights is still MIA. The sciyahs are made from poplar. I made several jigs so I will be able to repeat this particular bow. A 2 piece version would be sweet. Working on another with a black titanium finish. Will post some more info and pics later.


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## zdogk9

Sanford said:


> A guy who makes custom stirrups for saddles had a method he explained, whereas he could bend/mold large diameter PVC pipe into shape and flatten using steam. Never saw the rig, but from his explanation, seemed in my mind that he used his mold and ran steam through the PVC to heat, bend, and mold.


Get a wallpaper steamer and a length of ABS pipe 3" in diameter use the hose on the wallpaper steamer to put the steam to the inside of the ABS which has the PVC in it, I'll find some photos of my rig and post them, I've done fifteen or so kayaks using this sort of steamer.


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## GPW

Heating it from the inside sure seems more effective ... quicker too ...

Zdog, kayaks ..??? PVC??? Got any pics? ... very interesting the uses for PVC...


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## pksnipr

That's a sweet looking horse bow! Wish I could get enough time to try one with the siyahs. What'd you wrap it with? @ buff, sent u that email with the flattening jig.


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## buffrider

Here is pksnpers pics of his jig.


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## buffrider




----------



## GPW

Two questions please ... 
1. why the bolt ...? Won’t a clamp or a “fence” do ? 
2. how did you get those cracked edges , too much heat , too quick a compression ?


----------



## Chupacabras

Buff, 
You can't crease PVC or it will fail. The limb has to have a taper the full length. Here are a few pics of bow number 2. Black fire opal finish. Pksniper the first bow is rattlesnake pattern limb skins.


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## buffrider

Chupa they werent my pics. I posted them for snipr.


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## pksnipr

@ Gpw. the bolt is me over engineering the jig. I've used a clamp but i like the central stabilizing qualities of the bolt with a big cut washer. Also I've been experiment with full limb tapers so in the end the hole doesn't matter. With the bows that I have strung the hole doesn't take anything from the integrity of the bow. The cracked edges were a result of my first attempt at flattening sch 40 pipe. I had been using sch 80 which can take pretty much anything you can throw at it. The cracks were just a result of aggressive clamping. Today I experimented with using spacers throughout the length of the flattening jig. I'm noticing that you really want to keep some of the "roundness" to the pipe to keep it's resistance. Haven't got it worked out just yet but, getting pretty close. I'll keep you guys updated. Chup i'll take 2 of those!


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## GPW

PK, Thanks ! I was wondering if the hole was in a part of the limb that eventually got cut off ... 
Working on a jig idea to capture the PVC between two “fences” on either side , which will be based on the measured width of a finished bow ... That way alignment is assured (theoretically )


----------



## pksnipr

i will say that the bows i have made with the hole have shown no adverse effects. i have strung a 55 lb sched 80 recurve with the hole remaining in the limb and it worked fine. you could drill a hole on the other side to match:wink: if you were worried about the looks. it works for me since i can just hang them on a nail. i like the washer bolt setup because if u use a clamp you are relying completely on the flatness of the wood used for the flattening jig. also i mentioned earlier that i had experimented with full limb tapers. it works but the poundage of draw is reduced pretty noticeably. although, the bow that i made was remarkably smoother in both draw and firing. i'm trying to figure out a way to either fuse a "stringer" of pvc to the outside of the limb with pvc cement or add an oak insert to the inside of the limb. So far the "stringer" is working the best for me. one of these days i'll get around to figuring out how to post pics.


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## pksnipr

So, i strung up the 2nd PVC bow i ever made today. It was the 50 lb takedown recurve that bb has on his youtube. took me a while cause I had to have strings made for it. the string knocks were too big for off the shelf strings. the guy that made the string made it with 16 strands of dacron for a 60 # plus bow. the bow shoots great although a little heavy but my arrow knocks are a little too tight and everything is shooting low. Any ideas on remedying the situation? i figured filing them down but, a few of them are knocked for life.

Also made a sch 80 youth recurve and put 4 inches of reflex in it. lemme just tell you guys that thing is a beast. i dont have a bow scale but it pulls harder than my 55 lb longbow.


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## Chupacabras

Take a piece of sandpaper, 200 grit or higher, fold it until it fits into the nock sand lightly. Best would be to reserve the string with smaller diameter serving.


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## GPW

Gentlemen , after much apprehension I broke down and got some 550 Paracord, and it really works well on these PVC bows ... fits the nocks (surprisingly) , feels comfortable without serving (thick) and shoots well (as we can tell) ... No reason to twist up a standard string when this works fine ! Cheap too , befitting the “thriftiness “ of these bow types ... 

PK, Pics please .... 
Go to the bottom of the reply box, hit the GO Advanced “ button ... scroll down till you see *Attachments *, hit the manage attachments button , a new window (box) will pop up , and in the upper right hand corner is Add Files ... Hit that button and another window will open with choose file , hit that and you’l see a list of all your photos , select which one(s) you want and attach using the UPload button , when finished hit the DONE button, and then Submit ... Your pics will be in the reply ... :thumbs_up


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## pksnipr

ok gpw i'll give it a try this evening. i will say that as of yet i haven't gotten into the whole finishing thing so all my bows look pretty much like bent pvc haha.


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## zdogk9

Here's a pic of my steamer as I'm about to make a bunch of kayak ribs. ABS does not melt down like PVC.


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## buffrider

Been a while. Anyone got any updates?


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## cubefx

Here is my PVC bows. Paracord string and handle, leather arrow rest and wrapped them in camo duct tape. Short one is around #35, and the long one is somewhere around #25.


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## GPW

Buff, before I made any more , I wanted to test them .... so kept two for backyard shooting , and gave two to my archery buddy ... They still shoot just fine , no problems , no breakdowns , and one I’ve left strung and it hasn’t lost any weight , beyond the initial “set” ... I LIKE this stuff .... so EASY , and downright Cheap ... With hunting season fast approaching , I might have to whip out a few more hunting weight weapons ~ 40-50 # ... just in case ...


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## GPW

Just something practical that happened with PVC.... My wife broke her big toe , and had to wear these special medical splints , made of the cheapest plastic , she broke two ... @ 40 bucks a pop ... Looked at it , got out some 1” PVC pipe , heated it and cut to shape , sanded smooth , and it works great ... goofy wife won’t be breaking that ... saved 40 bucks ... All inspired from this thread ... Thanks Guys !!!:thumbs_up


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## joneal2

zdogk9, your steamer looks great. Have you used it yet to steam a pvc bow? If you have, how long did it take to steam the pvc before you were able to put it into a jig press? What steamer are you using? Do you close off one end? How about the end where you put in the hose, is it open or do your use some sort of a reducer? I have made one bow so far using the Harbor Freight cheapest heat gun, $7.99 with a coupon I found on the internet.






. I actually was thinking about a steamer and tried one of those coffee froth steamers running straight through the pvc pipe. It softened the pipe, but not enough to make it workable for pressing. I am not sure if the coupon jpg is attached to this message, but if anyone is interested, email me and I will send it to you.


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## joneal2

I just saw one on flea bay titled "45lb Recurve Pvc Bow" starting bid $15.00, buy it now price 25.00 plus shipping. 
Looks like he has sold one that someone bought for the $25.00 price. Plain white with black marks on it. red string.


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## GPW

J, although the archery purists undoubtedly scoff at these bows , the commercial potential is amazing ... you basically pay a dollar and change for the materials , takes 15 minutes to make one ... you do the math ...? They are perfect for the Kiddies ... especially at their shorter draw lengths ... :thumbs_up


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## bob barnes

great thread...even though I'm one of those archery purists... lol... I have taught high school students to make selfbows and will be watching to see the hunting weight bows you guys are working on...
keep up the good work!
Bob


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## GPW

Have you guys seen Backyard Bowyer’s new video ? A snakey ‘ center shot bow .... very ingenious , and hunting weight...


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## buffrider

I'll have to watch that in a lil bit. Sweet.


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## 187 BOWHUNTER

are ppl just bored or something?


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## GPW

187, Nope !!! Some PPL just like to do something “differently”


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## bob barnes

after 34 years of teaching high school... I can say that I've never found teaching/learning new things 'boring'... and if it gives others pleasure...so much the better! There's nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box...or saving money...or using your imagination...


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## GPW

... the Kiddies( the future of trad archery) Love these bows , especially the painted ones .. and for a buck or two, what the hey ? :thumbs_up

In these many years bowmaking , I haven’t found a way yet to make a fully shooting wooden bow in under an hour ... even a dirt simple “branch” bow ... These PVC bows only take 20 min. or so ... and shoot Great ... 
JMHO, Archery’s best bang for the buck ... right now anyway ... :wink:


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## Black Knife

A couple of weekends ago, I watched Backyard Bowyer's videos. I made a few and wondered if anyone else was making them. I did a quick search and ended up here. You guys seem to have the same appreciation for these ultra-simple, ultra-inexpensive bows that I have. So far I have made seven of them for my kids, nieces, and nephews. Three of them are a pseudo-Egypian style; a couple of horsebows, and two "D" longbows (one of which I flattened the entire length of the limbs). I will get some pictures when I get home tonight.
Who knew you could have this much fun for a dollar?!?


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## Black Knife

I've also found a way to cut the heating time in half. I took a three foot section of thick 3" mailing tube and cut out a 1.5" slot down the length. I then took some aluminum flashing and lined the inside. This holds the heat from the heat gun inside and effectively heats all around the pipe. I can heat up one end of the pipe in about a minute and a half.


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## GPW

BK, a good dollar bow is about as much Fun as you can have ... with your clothes on ... hahaha Surprising how well they shoot too !!! 
Nice heating trick ... :thumbs_up


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## bob barnes

cool stuff...thanks for sharing...!
Bob


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## Black Knife

Here are a few of them.


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## bob barnes

now that's just cool...and I have been make wood bows for several years,,,great job!
Bob


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## Todd Macko

Just watched the video. That's pretty durn nifty!


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## GPW

Really NICE looking bows BK !!! :thumbs_up I’ve searched for years to find such a material ... was there all along ... Waaay easier than chopping trees down ...


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## joneal2

I was wondering if this would work with Aluminum foil in place of the aluminum flashing? Did you use the regular Kraft mailing tubes? Do you have a picture?


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## JB_1974

Todd the archer said:


> The man in the youtube video in the first post is Nick Tomihanna. He has done a lot experimenting with PVC bows. I have made several and their performance is amazing. Mine are horsebow styles averaging about 54" long and draw 50 to 55 pounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually shoot smooth with little hand shock.
> 
> Todd the archer


Hey Todd Just have to say, That's some really impressive work. On your second pic. (the one that's hanging up) did you stain the siyas, and if not what type of wood did you use for them?


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## Todd the archer

Thanks for the compliments, the wood I have use is some scrap pieces of Walnut.

Todd


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## JB_1974

Black Knife said:


> I've also found a way to cut the heating time in half. I took a three foot section of thick 3" mailing tube and cut out a 1.5" slot down the length. I then took some aluminum flashing and lined the inside. This holds the heat from the heat gun inside and effectively heats all around the pipe. I can heat up one end of the pipe in about a minute and a half.


That's a good bit of info there  I was debating whether to do that myself, but I guess that settled that for me 
thanks 

John


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## GPW

No easier way to make a bow .... tried em’ all ... PVC bows work Great .... best Bang for the buck (literally) that we’ve EVER found ...


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## JB_1974

Chupacabras said:


> Just finished my first one. 3/4" pvc. 44" strung/ 6.5" Brace. It will cast a 400 grain plus arrow with a punch. No finger pinch shooting split finger.


I do have to say, she is quite lovely


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## TheLongbowShoot

Nick (BackyardBowyer) makes some cool T/D bows! I made one from a guy called (TheMansCave) and mine shot perfect till it snapped. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_xlmUdNibQ&feature=channel&list=UL


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## Albrecht Kurze

I'm looking to build at least one PVC bow over the holidays. I had this crazy idea pop into my head, and wanted to see if anyone else here had tried it already...

Has anyone tried injecting insulating foam into the core of the pipe after the shaping process? I'm going to experiment with it, but wanted to see if anyone here had already done this & if it was an unsafe idea.

I'm planning to build four identical bows; leaving one hollow, one filled with Great Stuff Window & Door (which I theorize will work the best), one with regular Great Stuff, and one with Great Stuff Big Gap. 

I'm planning to drill holes about every 2 inches down the belly of the bow, just large enough for the straw to poke into. 
After the foam sets I intend to; under cut the foam inside the hole a little, taper (ream) the hole slightly, and fill in with an epoxy to seal the foam inside.

Does anyone see any reason this is a bad or particularly unsafe idea? 

Why do I want to do this? I think it will help to prevent collapses. I also think it'll help increase draw weight in lower ID pipe (which helps a little with appearance). I'm hoping this will not adversely affect the arrow speed (limb speed).


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## GPW

The easiest way to prevent collapse , is to make the PVC bow Longer ... to compensate and make a heavier weight bow , the larger diameter PVC works fine as it provides more bending surface area to share the loads (safer) ... and the longer bows are a little easier to shoot ... JMHO

 Having made several of the 3/4” PVC bows @ 48” long , and drawn to my 28” DL, they would be much overstressed if done in wood ... the PVC survives ... for those with a shorter DL , no problem ... Following the traditional conventions , normally a 48” bow should only be drawn no more than half it’s length ... PVC treated accordingly should be completely Safe from any problem.


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## Todd the archer

I think just like a wood bow that hinges because it is not tillered properly the same holds true with a pvc bow. If it collapses it is most likely because it is over stressed in that area. The good news is you can reheat and reshape a collapsed bow and start over, not so easily done with a wood bow.

Todd


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## deslave1

I first saw a video where the guy stuffed a 1/2" pipe inside a 3/4" plus had a fiberglass rod in the middle of that as well. I liked part of the idea, the fiberglass rod, mixed with Backyard Bower's flattening process. I have also experimented with a wooden handle and the fiberglass rod, both 1/4" and 3/8" combined. My attempts have yielded several very nice backyard bows. Another bonus was the kids getting into shooting the PVC bows over the dept store Barnett 48"-ers. I have made a couple of 1/2"x60" & 3/4"x60', a couple of 48", flat bows/longbows and recurves. No failures so far.


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## Fury90flier

cool thread...subscribed.

just gave a bow to a friend...now I have an excuse for another one. The wife may like this idea much better than buying another one


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## Albrecht Kurze

Just a quick update; I wrote to Nick (the Backyard Bowyer) and asked about filling the PVC with foam.
He said he HAD tried it, and found it not worth the effort in his opinion. He said it didn't really help with collapses & actually made it more difficult to fix a collapse. He said he didn't notice any improvement in draw weight. He said it made the bow shoot slower.

He did say the one advantage he saw was that it made the bow less affected by temperature. Being that he's in Hawaii, I presume he's talking about heat, not cold. He said he filled a bow with fiberglass insulation fiber; this had the same effect of preventing temperature from affecting the bow with less weight than foam.

Since it slows the bow down, I'm not going to do this experiment. That's not a side effect I'm willing to accept.

Just thought I'd share what I'd learned.

Thanks,
Albrecht


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## GPW

Anything you add to the inside really does little work and adds MASS (weight) which slows the bow down ... most All the tension and compression forces are at the surface of the back and belly ... gotta’ consider , the inside (neutral zone) of a PVC bow is Air eh ... ?

You guys seen Backyard Nick’s new bow ... short 3 piece takedown ... pretty cool ... So difficult to make a good takedown bow , so “Elementary" with PVC .... That’s a big Bonus eh !!!


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## JB_1974

Yep saw the video, it's nice little bow, I'm probably going to attempt to make one here pretty soon. By the way i took the idea of using your flattening jig (sans the panels on the side and the recurve on the end) so far it works really well for me, thanks for the idea


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## GPW

Reading about the Hidatsa bow , which was asymmetrical , The thought came to mind that a PVC Hidatsa bow would be a Quick , Cheap , and Easy experiment ... It could be FUN and supposedly the shot pretty well too .... here’s a pic I found on the ‘net ...


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## JB_1974

Hmmm.... that's an interesting looking bow, I bet it would be really similar to shooting a yumi hankyu or yumi dai


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## GPW

Supposedly you tune it by moving your hand up and down the bow to give the best arrow flight ... and making it from 3/4” PVC it would be just about the right size as the originals ... ~ 50” ... 

JB, having never shot a Yumi , was alway fascinated how well they shot an arrow .... Could be something to this asymmetry business... ??? For a dollar , it’s worth a try ....


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## JB_1974

well as far as asymmetrical bows go, they were made for the purpose of reducing hand shock by moving the grip to the lower third of the bow. As far as shooting a yumi goes, I've shot quite a few, and have picked up some tricks with them over the years, they have virtually no hand shock, and being only a 50# bow they shoot faster and have more penetration than a 90# English long bow 
that is if you get the technique for shooting them down, but yeah for a dollar and change.... you can't go wrong, and making them is alot of fun, so it's a win win situation ^_^


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## JB_1974

Just a video I came across for those of you that are concerned about shooting these bows in cold weather
Here's Nick (the backyard bowyer) shooting his 30# take down horse bow in 30 degree weather






Enjoy

John


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## GPW

Whipped this out in my spare time , just an experiment . 3/4” PVC 60” long ... ~40+# @ 28” And it shoots *NICE !!!* PVC not even flattened ... Now to make another ... 

Ps. Arrow shoots @ 4” below bow center


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## GPW

Whoa !!! This bow shoots better than any of my other PVC bows ... Nice flat arrow flight, no hand shock ... Decided to make a flattened one (or more) ... Drew up some plans and a jig to facilitate bending and curving all in one shot ...

Odd how it looks like a reversed Reflex deflex bow .... which makes me wonder how an asymmetrical RD bow would be ??? :set1_thinking:


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## GPW

Building this asymmetrical bow has been a real "game changer" ... The bow shoots flat and fast , and no handshock .... Wonder why nobody ever fooled around with these before ? ... I know , it doesn’t *LOOK* like a longbow ... 

But it sure shoots GOOD ... Can’t wait to try this against other “traditional” bows at a 3D shoot ... Shoots so good , it may be ruled “Illegal” ...


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## Todd the archer

Very cool GPW, Wonder how many pounds a 1" pipe would give you?

Todd


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## GPW

Todd, I’d hunt with this bow ... shoots !!! 1” should give you somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 # (WAG!) ... That should be impressive!!! ...  ... with sch. 80 , who knows ??? And this is with unflattened pipe yet ... just bend it to shape , string it up !!! Quickest (and cheapest) bow I ever made... I love cutting and shaping wood bows , but this is too much FUN to pass up ... :thumbs_up


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## Live In a Park

Really cool stuff!

Maybe you could help me with something really basic. I'm a time (and $) constrained and want something like a Native American horse bow, a short long bow as near as I can tell. Just trying to get in the ball park, would this work for a 30# to 40# bow?:
* 54" long 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC pipe, not heat formed,
and
* A cheap dacron string, 54" AMO

Would regular sch 200 be closer to the target draw weight?

Thanks!


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## GPW

Park, that should work fine for what you want !!! Only costs a dollar to find out eh !!!


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## Live In a Park

Thanks, GPW. I bet that I end up getting a heat gun for a little refinement of my second. I'll already have the pipe and it looks like it's addictive... What have I gotten myself into?!


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## GPW

It’s pretty addictive ... Allows you to experiment with different style bows , quickly , no shavings ,sawdust to clean up , and extremely cheap ... Thing is , they actually shoot pretty good ... Once I built and shot the first one , I was hooked !!! :mg: 

A heat gun really helps ... we got a cheap one from HF and it works fine ...


Ps. I tried posting about these at PA , and my thread got thrown out (S/canned) .... They wouldn’t even Think about it ... Pretty narrow minded to not even listen ...


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## ousooneralum

It's a very fun hobby - got a few videos up on ones I've made below. There is a growing community of very creative people on youtube and google+ taking on this hobby. Not very many hobbies you can participate in that are this cheap and rewarding IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhIgt4___zw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HNYAZ3Dwt8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpmLGLdfAmc


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## catscratch

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content









My 4yr old hunting birds last summer with a PVC bow.


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## GPW

Cute kid !!! he’s ready !!!  JMHO, this is where PVC bows are really practical on an immediate basis... Quick (cheap) kiddie bows to further promote Archery ...lots of young ones have never shot a bow ... yet !!! The usual offerings for children , those FG bows are pretty disappointing ... The future of archery rests with the young ones !!!


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## GBG

I wonder how a bow with a flat strip pvc core and glass backing would preform? The following approximate properties for hickory and pvc were found from several web sources (if I made a mistake please correct these numbers, thanks).

Hickory: Density=.021-.034lb/in3, compression strength=9200pse, shear strength=2400psi, tensile strength parallel to grain not readily available, bending strength=20,000psi

PVC: Density=.05lb/in3, compression strength=12,000psi, shear strength=3600psi, tensile strength=6400psi, bending strength=5000-10,000psi

It would be great to hear any opinions from experienced bowyers or engineers on pvc's potential as a core laminate material.


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## GPW

GBG, that might work if you could find the right adhesive to attach the glass to the PVC, but the extra mass might not be appreciated if made to standard bow dimensions ... The bow probably could be made narrower, thinner , shorter to compensate , but that all seems like a lot of work (and expense) when the PVC alone shoots so well ... That’s the Beauty of PVC bows ... Simple , Very Inexpensive , and hardly any work to make ... All we’ve made so far have been pretty much self-tillering ... So easy even Grandma could make one ... and shoot it too ...


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## BrokenArrows

Todd the archer said:


> The man in the youtube video in the first post is Nick Tomihanna. He has done a lot experimenting with PVC bows. I have made several and their performance is amazing. Mine are horsebow styles averaging about 54" long and draw 50 to 55 pounds.
> 
> Actually shoot smooth with little hand shock.
> 
> Todd the archer


Cool! Nice job!


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## bowhnter4ever

Tag


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## fisher2

do these take a set like selfbows? how does it not just stay bent? what happens if you fill it with foam does that help at all?


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## GPW

F2, these bows do take an initial set , but not much , and that can be compensated for , just like wood , by making a longer bow , or just reflexing the handle , which unlike wood is easy to do ... The PVC seems to have a great memory and wants to return to a straight pipe if heated ... so remains “springy” and bow worthy .... I even leave mine strung , no problems ... Always ready to shoot ...  

Anybody notice that PVC has a similar density as the usual hardwoods we make bows from ... ?


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## fisher2

what would i need to do to make n 80# bow lol


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## Todd the archer

Ha! has already been done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrKqV9reA1M

Todd


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## ousooneralum

I've posted up a comparison video of solid fiberglass vs pvc performance. Tried to make it as much an apples to apples as possible, and think the data illustrates that PVC is a legitimate bow material.


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## catscratch

Made a small version of the bow GPW posted above (with the 4" offset for the arrow) for my boys. It shoots great and the kids haven't put it down since I handed it to them. I'm now interested in this asymmetrical bow stuff. What types are there? Give me some stuff to research...


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## GPW

Ouso... Nice video !!!  Somebody had to say it !!! 

Cat, we haven’t found much on them other than those Hidatsa bows , the Yumi Japanese bow , and some Polynesian or African “paddle” bows (?) .. Not much discussed other than the Yumi ... nobody I know has tried it ... but then , they sure shoot Nice huh !!!  Some kind of harmonic “thing” going on ... sure different than a regular bow and shoots as good/better than ... JMHO 

Search ... Primitive Archer magazine Vol 3 , Issue 4 (Jan. ‘97) Hidatsa Archery by Ron Taillon 
Secrets of the Omaha bow ... W, Vonderhay
Trad bowers bible Vol 3 ... illustrations , somehow shown inverted ...


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## GPW

http://redhawk55.wordpress.com/tag/asymmetrical-bow/ A pic from that site with a young girl shooting an asymmetrical bow ...


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## GPW

About the ^ site ... you do have to scroll down a bit to find that bow article ...and more pics of a build .. PVC is sooooo much Easier ...


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## Todd the archer

Some of the hungarian horsebows are also asymmetrical.

Todd


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## GPW

Todd, it must have worked for all these people ... if it didn’t work , they’d have gotten rid of them long ago huh ... ? Having to feed and defend themselves and all with it. 

http://www.lovasijaszat.hu/felszerelesek/index.php?module=bows&id=5〈=1

All these pretty easy to replicate (sorta’) in PVC...


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## ousooneralum

GPW - you should check out the PVC Archery and Crafting community on Google+. Open to the public and a great forum where a lot of great PVC bow builds, tips, ideas, etc are shared. https://plus.google.com/communities/115443350092709812365


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## GPW

OU, Thanks !!! checked it out ...  Nice to see this gaining a wider acceptance...


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## JB_1974

Wow it's been awhile since I've been on the forums and now that I come back I see that the PVC Archery and Crafting community on Google + is being promoted by none other than ousooneralum. 
I never knew that you were a member over here also. 

John B.


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## JB_1974

Anyhow here's one I've been working on 

View attachment 1662096


View attachment 1662097


I base it roughly off an Assyrian composite bow, it's made from 3/4" schedule 40 PVC with integrated string follows.
This bow is 47 inches nock to nock it draws 47# @28" and 53# @ 31 inches, brace height is 6 3/4 inches

I'm not quite sure about the speed yet but she shoots fast and hits hard


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## GPW

Yesterday , we dragged out the PVC Hidatsa bow to shoot an arrow with string attached over a Large broken tree limb hanging over my driveway, so we could attach a rope and pull it down ... First shot went over the tree as planned , but kept going over two more trees ... :mg: Shoots Fast , even trailing a string ...  Arrow shot right were I looked ... and with the asymmetry , there was no hand shock , no wrist buzzing , despite the lower brace height ... I LOVE these PVC bows !!!! ... JMHO


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## JB_1974

> Anyhow here's one I've been working on
> 
> I base it roughly off an Assyrian composite bow, it's made from 3/4" schedule 40 PVC with integrated string follows.
> This bow is 47 inches nock to nock it draws 47# @28" and 53# @ 31 inches, brace height is 6 3/4 inches
> 
> I'm not quite sure about the speed yet but she shoots fast and hits hard






Sorry about the photos not showing up in my last post, but this should work


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## Todd the archer

nice work


Todd


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## JB_1974

Thanks Todd, I appreciate it ^_^

John B.


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## GPW

JB, That’s COOL !!! You gonna’ paint it ?


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## Chupacabras

Those limb tips look great. How did you make them?


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## Chupacabras

ousooneralum said:


> GPW - you should check out the PVC Archery and Crafting community on Google+. Open to the public and a great forum where a lot of great PVC bow builds, tips, ideas, etc are shared. https://plus.google.com/communities/115443350092709812365


Thanks for posting the link.
This one is really bad ass


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## JB_1974

> GPW: JB, That’s COOL !!! You gonna’ paint it ?


yep I sure am, just need to find the time



> Chupacabras: Those limb tips look great. How did you make them?


Basically I heated the first 6" of the limb tips until they puffed back to round, bent them over a 6" sauce pan while pinching the top 2", then when they cooled down, I cut the tips at a 45 degree angle, split the pipe on the belly side of the bow making sure that the end of the split was a continuation of the curve of the pipe, heated where I had made the split, folded the resultant flaps out until they re-solidified and then sanded them smooth. And poof... Integrated siyahs/string bridges ^_^

John B.


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## Chupacabras

Thanks for the info JB. It really gives the bow clean lines.


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## JB_1974

Thanks, and it is okay to call me John By the way ^_^


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## GPW

Joined the Google + community , got flooded with e-mails , and then QUIT Google .... grrrrr!!!! Beware !!!


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## JB_1974

yeah, I had to change email settings shortly after I joined... sort of got on my nerves after the first couple of hours


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## JB_1974

Well after tossing and turning for about 3 hours last night I finally decided to do something constructive, which means.... I present to you, another bow from the brown couch (my new personal bow).





I base her roughly off of Assyrian & Mongolian composite bows (yeah she's a hybrid so sue me ) 

she's made from 3/4" schedule 40, 53" nock to nock with 7" PVC (1/2") siyahs she draws about 30# @ 28", 37# @ 30" and 45# using korean long draw (all the way to my shoulder) not sure about the fps but she really sticks a target from 20 yards


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## GPW

John , Beauty shape eh !!! So Cool the forward grip ..


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## JB_1974

*chuckles* Beauty shape  Thanks Glen, I'm glad you think so ^_^. the grip is the result of upside down tapering like I did on the Assyrian bow, which I quite stumbled upon quite by accident. Basically reversing the taper makes it so you don't need to puff out the grip section quite as much (I still do on general principal however) and it gives the bow just a little bit of extra draw weight, (2-3 pounds at the most)


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## GPW

I look at those pics and can’t help but think of all kinds of ways to “decorate” it in a traditional sorta' way... a little paint , bits of cordage, leather, fur ... like the “movie” bows ... just sayin’ ...


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## JB_1974

Hmm... I was thinking along the of something along those same lines. leather wrap the grip, binding the transitions with artificial sinew, faux birch paint on the back and faux horn on the belly... 
I did however do a little tweaking with adding about 4" of reflex to the limbs today... Inadvertently she gained about 10 pounds of draw weight , but I barely notice it because I think reflexing 
the limbs smoothed out the draw just a touch 

Anyhow Pics of the finished bow to come soon


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## JB_1974

Oh yeah... just in case anyone's curious here's a couple of pics of the drawn profile of the bow (31 & 33")


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## GPW

That’s certainly a FULL Draw eh ... :mg:


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## JB_1974

It surely is a full draw. I almost had to strain to draw her that far... And then I remembered to use the muscles in my back ^_^


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## GPW

You know , overdrawing the pi$$ outta’ that bow is something we’d NEVER do with a wooden bow :mg: ... Yet this stuff survives... *Tough* material eh !!! 

Have you guys noticed the PVC bows left round , are a little more Stout than the flattened ones ???


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## JB_1974

Yeah... It is really tough material, and I have noticed that leaving the pipe round makes for a stouter bow, unfortunately I've also learned the hard way that if you leave it round that it has a tendency to snap at or just above the grip section to the tune of a goose egg sized bump in the middle of my forehead. Luckily that was the extent of it, and I still look back on it and laugh 
about it.... Almost hysterically  

On the other hand, it took about 1 1/2 - 2 years for it to get to that point, and it was just a "D" shaped long bow... So you might be on to something 0.o


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## GPW

Wow!!! we never had a failure yet , but have been making them 60” long lately and only drawing to my 28” draw length ... The 48” ones we made were flattened ... no problems , but lighter DW than the 60” unflattened bow ... I pretty much “respect” them now , much like a wooden bow... no overdraw , no troubles ...


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## JB_1974

Here's an update I did an experiment with paste/wax type shoe polish and i have to say it turned out really good.... As a side note I'll stick with kiwi liquid polish as the stuff in the can isn't very cost effective... Anyhow enough of my rambling. 

I used 4 coats of brown and one coat of black for the faux wood on the back of the bow, 2 coats of brown and 4 coats of black on the belly for the faux antler on the belly, 6 coats of brown and 1 coat of black for the siyahs, and finished with 5 coats of UV resistant matte acrylic 







sorry about the picture quality guys the camera I was using has a tendency t wash out the details


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## GPW

That’s COOL ... it really LOOKS like wood !!!


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## JB_1974

Thanks ^_^. Next up is wrapping the grip and transitions between the core and siyahs. I'm thinking of using paracord to wrap the grip and binding the transitions with jute


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## GPW

You know you probably can adjust your photos in the camera /photo program ... I always have to tweak my photos for shadows and definition , besides cropping out all the useless stuff ...


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## JB_1974

Thanks For the info Glen. I'll put 'em through Photoshop then


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## JB_1974

Well I figured out what the problem was with the camera.... I had to put it through a factory reset, but in any case here's some pics of the finished bow and hopefully these pics will do the finish a little justice


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## GPW

It looks Amazing !!! Just like a “bent stick” ...


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## JB_1974

Okay since I Haven't been really satisfied with the picture quality of my latest bow, I decided to have another go at it under natural lighting, and am I surprised 0.0


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## GPW

NICE !!!


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## JB_1974

Thanks Glen I appreciate it ^_^


----------



## GPW

Now that you showed us how , we’ll all have to make one !!!  ... Thanks to You !!!


----------



## JB_1974

Really? y'all are going to make one? Nice I look forward to the pics ^_^

Also if anyone is interested in how I made the string it's a 36" Flemish 
twist string (1/2" loops) with Asian-style Knotted Loops as seen here 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvnBjuPT0I8
I made the adjustable loops 5" long to fit over the siyahs


----------



## GPW

John , how do you like the PVC siyahs vs the wooden ones ? I see your one before that was a one piece ... Sure Looks like wood ... Great effect !!


----------



## JB_1974

Actually I like pvc siyahs a bit more than wooden ones, I mean don't get me wrong wood siyahs look really good on a bow and they work well, but pvc siyahs are a bit more rigid, not to mention lighter than say, walnut or oak, and I can pretty much make the one's made from pvc look like any wood that I want with the proper application of 80-100 grit sand paper shoe polish. 

Thanks again for the kind words ^_^ .

John B.


----------



## GPW

John , inspired by your finish , dyed my Hidatsa bow with Fiebings (it’s what I had ) and it did a freaky camo thing by itself ... so I left it ... Going to hit it with some clear spray once it’s dried really good.

Quick leather wrap on the handle feels good !!!


----------



## JB_1974

Nice work ^_^


----------



## GPW

Thanks for the tip , I’d have never thought of that !!!  One thing , it does rub off on the hands , even dry , so we HAVE to clear over it ..


----------



## JB_1974

You're welcome, and yeah I forgot to mention that I went over the finish with about 6 coats of U.V. resistant matte clear coat (acrylic) and 3 coats of regular matte clear coat (enamel) so that it wouldn't rub off.... Sorry bout that


----------



## GPW

Got it covered ... Thanks !!!


----------



## JB_1974

No worries ^_^


----------



## GPW

Going over to my buddy’s shop this week ... planning on using his big bandsaw to cut the curve in a 2” X 8” for the new Bending form /jig /thingie’ ... Should be able to just heat up the PVC pipe and stamp out a bow ... Well, that’s the plan anyway ... 
Also investigating hot water heating of the pipe , which seems more gentle on the pipe material ... no chance of scorching ...


----------



## JB_1974

Nice, just an idea my friend Jake uses can be found here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14YzHY1mCb8 It takes your idea and adds two pre-flattened limbs side by side to minimize/eliminate limb twist


----------



## GPW

That is a great bending form eh !!!!


----------



## Bastian

Being the artsy fartsy type i'm really enjoying this thread, and after having visited the PVC Archery forum I might have to make myself one of these for fun!


----------



## Todd the archer

Been a while since I posted but I have reading and working with these bows.
Might remember this one I built over a year ago (you can see it on page 2).



Well one of the great things about working with PVC is that it is so adaptable. This particular bow had some hand shock nothing terrible but I decide to experiment with it's profile to see if it could be improved upon. Here is what it looks like now.



I took out the deflex in the handle and added some reflex then deflexed the limbs so that net reflex didn't change (about 1"). Have to say it is almost shock free now. Also the siyah angle changed making the bow more stable.

Todd


----------



## JB_1974

Very nice Todd, I've always been a fan of your work...
is it just the angle you took the picture at or the 
bottom Siyah just a tad more reflexed then the top
Siyah 0.o


----------



## Todd the archer

Thanks JB, the bottom siyah may have a bit more angle but what could be throwing your eye off is the bottom string loop is shorter. Why? When I put the extra bends in the bow it shortened it and instead off making a new string I wrapped the loop around the nock twice. The shortened loop doesn't lay past the siyah like the top one.


----------



## JB_1974

Ah.... Okay. Thanks for pointing that out. I see that now that I've taken a better look at it ^_^
And did you set it up for thumb draw or is that an ambidextrous grip?


----------



## JB_1974

GPW said:


> That is a great bending form eh !!!!


Yeah it is, soon as i get access to a band saw, I might just make one of those


----------



## Todd the archer

The bow is ambidextrous with a strike plate on both sides, however I am left handed. I think I would like to try a thumb ring but need a ring that fits and have to dedicate time to learn which is hard to come by these days!

Todd


----------



## JB_1974

Actually I've made several thumb rings out of 3/4" PVC and have had I guess okay results, and the last two were made from 1/2" (90 Degree) Elbow couplers and they turned out really nice as you can see here









The one with the 90degree tab is a Mongolian (Pan Chi) style thumb ring and the one with the 45 degree tab is a Turkish style (Zihgir) thumb ring, they both cost a 
grand total of 50 cents and took about a half an hour to make ^_^

But being a dad of a 5 year old, I can totally understand having time be at a premium. 

Anyhow If you have any questions about learning thumb draw or how I constructed my rings feel free to ask ^_^
and by the way, it is alright to call me John ^_^


----------



## Todd the archer

Nice rings John, may have to give it a try again. Do you have a prefer one style over the other?

Todd


----------



## bowcycle

John,
Can you show a pic of the PVC elbow and where you made the cut to get your rings?
I've always wanted to play around with thumb draw.


----------



## GPW

Guys , got the curve cut for my bow form jig ... That was the biggest hurdle . Now we’ll add the hinge and the stop blocks, etc. and fire up the heat gun ...  Also working on a heating trough made from scraps and aluminum foil ... Still would like to explore hot water heating which may be more gentle on the PVC ... I dunno’ ... just seems like it would heat more evenly .. ? Maybe if we get into “production” (making more than a couple ) :set1_thinking:


----------



## JB_1974

@ Todd
I actually prefer using the Pan Chi over the Zihgir, it's just a tad easier on the back of my thumb and it grabs the string better. And thanks for the kind words ^_^

@ bowcycle I don't have any pics of where I cur the rings but here's where I got the idea http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=1;t=111077

Hope that helps ^_^ 

John B.


----------



## bowcycle

Thanks, John.
That works.


----------



## JB_1974

No worries


----------



## GPW

Still working on the bending jig .... got the hinge blocks glued on ... working on the stop blocks ...still crude at this point , but I’m already thinking we can not only make the Hidatsa style bow , but even the more common Reflex-deflex bow too ...


----------



## JB_1974

Looking good Glen. I look forward to seeing it finished


----------



## GPW

Here’s with the hinge and keeper blocks installed ... Just have to install the stop block and we can heat up some PVC pipe and try it out ...


----------



## GPW

All done , closed and open position ... open looks like some kind of modern Art Alligator ...  hahahaha ...have to run out for more pipe ...


----------



## JB_1974

Well it's been awhile since I last posted, so I thought that I would post my latest creation.
But first the specs:

62" total length, 60" nock to nock and 54" tip to tip at brace
she pulls 47lbs. @ 28" and a solid 53lbs @31"
she's made from 1" schedule 40 pipe with 7" siyahs 
made from 3/4" schedule 40.

I finished her with krylon fusion flat black primer on the back, faux horn on the belly, faux wood on the siyahs 
and finished her off with 3 layers of rustoleum painters touch UV resistant clear coat and a flattened paracord
handle wrap.

The only regret I have about making this bow is that I don't get to keep her as she's going to a bow trade 
with Nick Tomihama (yep, the backyard bowyer himself) since we're practically neighbors now.

well enough of my rambling... Here she is 











By the way, another reason that I'm so happy with how this one turned out is she was not only the first horse style bow that I've made, she was also an experiment 
to see if i could even make one with this particular profile and have the tiller come out balanced... yay for having the mad scientist bug ^_^


----------



## GPW

Looks Great !!!  Nice to have Nick for a neighbor ... that’s gonna’ be FUN ...


----------



## JB_1974

Yeah it is cool having him for an almost neighbor, and thanks. All I have left to do on the bow is painting the Chinese zodiac symbols for his birth year on on the belly side f the grip and she's ready to go


----------



## JB_1974

This just in... 

Anyhow here's a pic of the bow that Nick Made me in exchange... Sort of makes the one I made for him look inadequate. But still I can't wait to get it in my hands and shoot it. 
It's an Egyptian style reflex deflex bow she's 48" ntn, draws 37# @ 28" and 42# @ 31"



Enjoy ^.^


----------



## GPW

Wow , Nice !!!


----------



## JB_1974

Isn't it? definitely a cut above the one i made for him... I tell you one thing.... it just isn't fair to raise the bar that high


----------



## Howard33

pksnipr said:


> @ Gpw. the bolt is me over engineering the jig. I've used a clamp but i like the central stabilizing qualities of the bolt with a big cut washer. Also I've been experiment with full limb tapers so in the end the hole doesn't matter. With the bows that I have strung the hole doesn't take anything from the integrity of the bow. The cracked edges were a result of my first attempt at flattening sch 40 pipe. I had been using sch 80 which can take pretty much anything you can throw at it. The cracks were just a result of aggressive clamping. Today I experimented with using spacers throughout the length of the flattening jig. I'm noticing that you really want to keep some of the "roundness" to the pipe to keep it's resistance. Haven't got it worked out just yet but, getting pretty close. I'll keep you guys updated. Chup i'll take 2 of those!


Just started to get into this. Don't suppose you might want to share plans for your flattening and forming jigs?


----------



## JB_1974

Hello Howard; 

Welcome to the forums, for the most part for a flattening jig you can go about about building them a few ways, the one I made in particular is just a 1x6 (4' long)with 2 -3/8" bolts, 2 hex nuts, 4 washers and 2 wing nuts, spaced 1/2" form either side (center of the hole should be centered 1/2" from front and side) of the board, that way it's adjustable and you don't need to clamp to anything you just kneel on it to flatten your limbs, the way a lot of people are going is basically the same way as I built mine except they use 2 - 4' sections of 2x4 and sandwich the pipe between them with clamps from the center of the pipe after adjusting the bolts to the outer diameter of the pipe first to flatten the limbs, whereas I flatten the pipe just below the grip section of the bow with mine after adjusting the bolts to the inner diameter of the pipe. So basically no plans are needed.

As for forming the profile of the bow, I use either a 6" or an 8" flat sided sauce pan for forming recurves and a 9" stock pot if I'm making a mongolian style bow (I measure about 4" from either edge of the grip and deflex the limbs between 2 and 3") then heat the pipe until it's pliable enough to bend without creasing but not so much as to puff the pipe back out... unless you want tho make static recurves, then bending it over a pan still applies, you just need to flatten the tips perpendicular to the bow's limbs. Again, no plans needed.

Again. Welcome to the forums, and I hope that I helped you in some way

John B.

P.S. you can also visit the PVC Archery and Crafting Google+ Community for more ideas


----------



## Howard33

JB_1974 said:


> Hello Howard;
> 
> Welcome to the forums, for the most part for a flattening jig you can go about about building them a few ways, the one I made in particular is just a 1x6 (4' long)with 2 -3/8" bolts, 2 hex nuts, 4 washers and 2 wing nuts, spaced 1/2" form either side (center of the hole should be centered 1/2" from front and side) of the board, that way it's adjustable and you don't need to clamp to anything you just kneel on it to flatten your limbs, the way a lot of people are going is basically the same way as I built mine except they use 2 - 4' sections of 2x4 and sandwich the pipe between them with clamps from the center of the pipe after adjusting the bolts to the outer diameter of the pipe first to flatten the limbs, whereas I flatten the pipe just below the grip section of the bow with mine after adjusting the bolts to the inner diameter of the pipe. So basically no plans are needed.
> 
> As for forming the profile of the bow, I use either a 6" or an 8" flat sided sauce pan for forming recurves and a 9" stock pot if I'm making a mongolian style bow (I measure about 4" from either edge of the grip and deflex the limbs between 2 and 3") then heat the pipe until it's pliable enough to bend without creasing but not so much as to puff the pipe back out... unless you want tho make static recurves, then bending it over a pan still applies, you just need to flatten the tips perpendicular to the bow's limbs. Again, no plans needed.
> 
> Again. Welcome to the forums, and I hope that I helped you in some way
> 
> John B.
> 
> P.S. you can also visit the PVC Archery and Crafting Google+ Community for more ideas


Thank you very much for the response. I have the "standard" 2x4 5' and 3' sections with the 3/8 carriage bolt setup advocated by BB's Youtube site. My earlier inquiry was more toward the forms being built that include the recurve in the tapering process. However, I believe I have the jist of it now and simply need to work out a template to cut the wood form to. 

What I'm running into currently is twist while working with the 3/4 pipe. It has a tendency to roll or sway more while trying to clamp it down. The 1" pipe doesn't have this much issue and I've had decent results since I figured out not to crank the clamps down like the pipe owes me money. I had a couple pieces of pipe that had the slit-like blowout along the side because of excessive clamping forming a crease point. 

Right now I've been working with 60" staves. I'm 5' 11" and have a 29" draw since I like to pull back to the back of my jawline. I also have a preference for the design of the horsebow as I just find it aesthetically pleasing. I don't plan on hunting with any of the bows I am may make, atleast not at this time, but rather want to refine my instinctive shooting and learn the Turkish draw/thumb ring method. 

I'm mixed-handed depending on the task. Typically hold the bow with my left and am right eye dominant.


----------



## JB_1974

Howard33 said:


> Thank you very much for the response. I have the "standard" 2x4 5' and 3' sections with the 3/8 carriage bolt setup advocated by BB's Youtube site. My earlier inquiry was more toward the forms being built that include the recurve in the tapering process. However, I believe I have the jist of it now and simply need to work out a template to cut the wood form to.
> 
> What I'm running into currently is twist while working with the 3/4 pipe. It has a tendency to roll or sway more while trying to clamp it down. The 1" pipe doesn't have this much issue and I've had decent results since I figured out not to crank the clamps down like the pipe owes me money. I had a couple pieces of pipe that had the slit-like blowout along the side because of excessive clamping forming a crease point.
> 
> Right now I've been working with 60" staves. I'm 5' 11" and have a 29" draw since I like to pull back to the back of my jawline. I also have a preference for the design of the horsebow as I just find it aesthetically pleasing. I don't plan on hunting with any of the bows I am may make, atleast not at this time, but rather want to refine my instinctive shooting and learn the Turkish draw/thumb ring method.
> 
> I'm mixed-handed depending on the task. Typically hold the bow with my left and am right eye dominant.


It's nice to see people getting interested in using thumb draw, if you are interested in making a thumb ring I posted a link near the top of the page showing how to make one out of a 90 degree pvc coupler. I've made a couple using that method and they turned out really nice (pics on page 10 of this thread), the one with the longer tab works a bit better IMO since it doesn't bite into the back of mu thumb as much as the one with the shorter/steeper tab

As for twists and bends on 3/4" pipe... I think everyone has problems with that, the best advice I can give is bending the limbs and twisting the handle back into alignment while the pipe is still really warm, or you can fix alignment issues with the handle while it's still relatively pliable. For the most part I only use 3/4" pipe for making siyahs and handle reinforcements nowadays, and only make a bow from it if someone wants a light weight or short/medium weight bow


----------



## Howard33

JB_1974 said:


> It's nice to see people getting interested in using thumb draw, if you are interested in making a thumb ring I posted a link near the top of the page showing how to make one out of a 90 degree pvc coupler. I've made a couple using that method and they turned out really nice (pics on page 10 of this thread), the one with the longer tab works a bit better IMO since it doesn't bite into the back of mu thumb as much as the one with the shorter/steeper tab
> 
> As for twists and bends on 3/4" pipe... I think everyone has problems with that, the best advice I can give is bending the limbs and twisting the handle back into alignment while the pipe is still really warm, or you can fix alignment issues with the handle while it's still relatively pliable. For the most part I only use 3/4" pipe for making siyahs and handle reinforcements nowadays, and only make a bow from it if someone wants a light weight or short/medium weight bow


Thanks alot for the advice. I'll definately check out your suggestions. I got a 3/4 freshly "cooked" and waiting in my garage when I get home that needs straightening so that will be on my list tonight. Once that's complete I can work on the curve for it as well as the 1" I already processed. I'll make sure to post up images when I have them tuned up. I have some Cocobolo and Jobillo hardwoods that I think would make excellent siyahs left over from another craft project so we'll see what happens with that.


----------



## JB_1974

Nice I'll be looking forward to it... Just be sure to wear a respirator while working with Cocobolo if you don't already know... It's sort of really toxic


----------



## JB_1974

Just as a side note... I think both types of wood would make awesome looking siyahs


----------



## Howard33

JB_1974 said:


> Just as a side note... I think both types of wood would make awesome looking siyahs


Yeah, most exotic woods aren't great for breathing in. Speaking of siyahs, I got to thinking of the whole "horsebow" thing and decided to monkey around abit with a couple of siyah templates I thought I would share... They should be pretty easy to trace onto your wood of choice and saw out then just sand the edges a bit for a nice silhouette. Of course with a bit of carving skills they can be shaped even nicer.


----------



## Howard33

Also while reading on here I noticed some interesting ideas for full body heating of pipe for pressing into a full form recurve jig/press. One was water and another steam, but why not a just a simple hot box convection "oven"? You could heat the whole shebang pop open the door, slide'er out and right into your jig/press. Seems much less potentially hazardous and if you make it sufficiently deep enough you could put in more than one rack of horizontal bars and do multipe pipes at the same time. Heck, with a bit of testing you could find out exactly what temperature it takes for the just right amount of malleability and how long it took you to get there then add a termometer and timer so you have it perfect everytime.


----------



## Howard33

Couple more animal head siyah templates


----------



## GPW

How about a template for the other end of the horse ... hahahahahahaha


----------



## JB_1974

Howard33 said:


> Also while reading on here I noticed some interesting ideas for full body heating of pipe for pressing into a full form recurve jig/press. One was water and another steam, but why not a just a simple hot box convection "oven"? You could heat the whole shebang pop open the door, slide 'er out and right into your jig/press. Seems much less potentially hazardous and if you make it sufficiently deep enough you could put in more than one rack of horizontal bars and do multiple pipes at the same time. Heck, with a bit of testing you could find out exactly what temperature it takes for the just right amount of malleability and how long it took you to get there then add a thermometer and timer so you have it perfect every time.


That's a pretty good idea, but I'd personally mount the door to the side(s) of the box to make 
removing the pipe easier, and less likely to lose heat, but that's just me. I'm also glad to see 
that you made it over to the Google+ community. 

As far as I know, PVC starts to become malleable at 210 degrees Fahrenheit, and reaches taffy (the point where you can 
flatten it) consistency at 215-225 degrees Fahrenheit give or take. But I'll have to do some research on it... Well then 
off to the lab *evil scientist laugh*

Just as an afterthought, I'm also pretty sure that everyone over at the Google+ community would be interested in this idea.


----------



## Howard33

JB_1974 said:


> That's a pretty good idea, but I'd personally mount the door to the side(s) of the box to make
> removing the pipe easier, and less likely to lose heat, but that's just me. I'm also glad to see
> that you made it over to the Google+ community.
> 
> As far as I know, PVC starts to become malleable at 210 degrees Fahrenheit, and reaches taffy (the point where you can
> flatten it) consistency at 215-225 degrees Fahrenheit give or take. But I'll have to do some research on it... Well then
> off to the lab *evil scientist laugh*
> 
> Just as an afterthought, I'm also pretty sure that everyone over at the Google+ community would be interested in this idea.


Thanks for the response. As for opening from the side, I what your saying about easy removal, but I would think you would loose more heat with that large of a door venting to the outside when you open it. Of course you might spend less time with it open if you can remove the pipe easily than sliding it out the smaller end door.

I'll post it up over at Google as well. Ideas get better when you share them cause more minds can lead to improvements.


----------



## JB_1974

> Ideas get better when you share them cause more minds can lead to improvements.


That's exactly what I was thinking ^.^


----------



## GPW

What about a piece of fence pipe (~3” dia. ? ) plugged on one end set up at a 45 deg. angle (X) , filled with water , small campfire underneath ... 212 deg ... boiling water ... shouldn’t take too long a soak to make it usable ? Doesn’t have to be big ... you’re only soaking 1/2 at a time eh ? ...36” ? OK, somewhat “primitive” , just backyard stuff ...


----------



## Howard33

No reason it shouldn't work.


----------



## JB_1974

Hmm... You might be on to something there Glen. The water temperature should be a little hotter than 212 though, think PVC needs a least 215-220 to get to taffy consistency, but I do know that it becomes semi malleable at 210 ... I'm thinking... Use a propane torch, a really hot burning wood, or charcoal with a blower (sort of like a forge???) under the fence pipe just to make sure that the water gets up to the required heat, and see what happens


----------



## GPW

We’ve been able to get the PVC hot enough to bend (heat gun) without going to the “taffy” stage ... I don’t really know the temperature that it was ...but it wasn’t really soft , just bendable .. 

Too hot , and water turns to Steam ... that could be dangerous to the user.. Apologies , I’m always worried about overheating (scorching) the plastic and changing it’s chemical nature, but that doesn’t seem to really be a problem with so many bows that folks have already made so far ... 
Since I got the bending/shaping jig finished , want to crank out maybe 20-30 of em ... pass them out to friends for further evaluation ... just thinking we need a convenient way to heat several pipes at one time ... ?


----------



## Howard33

GPW said:


> We’ve been able to get the PVC hot enough to bend (heat gun) without going to the “taffy” stage ... I don’t really know the temperature that it was ...but it wasn’t really soft , just bendable ..
> 
> Too hot , and water turns to Steam ... that could be dangerous to the user.. Apologies , I’m always worried about overheating (scorching) the plastic and changing it’s chemical nature, but that doesn’t seem to really be a problem with so many bows that folks have already made so far ...
> Since I got the bending/shaping jig finished , want to crank out maybe 20-30 of em ... pass them out to friends for further evaluation ... just thinking we need a convenient way to heat several pipes at one time ... ?


Are you planning on stacking more than one pipe in your jig? If so, I would wonder how uniform all would be. I just asked cause you mentioned heating several pipes at once.


----------



## GPW

Naa!! Just a single pipe at a time ... several heated so we don’t have to stop the process and get out the heat gun every time ... Mass production ...


----------



## pfbows

I tried using the steam chamber I rigged for bending & straightening wood bows. It did not get the pipe hot enough quickly all over it's length. It also cooled so fast that it was firm when I got to my flattening jig. The aluminum foil heat trough works best for me. I think a quartz heater with a 36 " bulb would heat evenly much faster, all that needs to be added is some sort of BBQ rotissere with an inner support expanding collet to keep it somewhat straight after desired temperature is reached. I have been enjoying the plastic bow stuff for about 6 months. I think it has great potential. I made wood bows for a year and it takes so much time to get consistant results & the tools are more expensive than a second girlfriend.


----------



## GPW

PF, Thanks for your test results !!! :thumbs_up


----------



## scout4

Wow!...Man, now this thread is just flat out cool!...Man, you guys gotta post up more about these pvc bows!...I'll tell ya, you have a little forum going on inside a big one.
I really need to give this a go! GPW you have a lot of great info going on here Thanks! JB_1974, man some of those bows you made! Pretty cool! hard to tell its pvc if a person didn't know. The rest of you Guy's makin these bows:thumbs_up Yeah! I like this! Gonna give it a try myself. Thanks All! scout4


----------



## GPW

I’m starting to wonder what’s going to happen when we show up at a shoot with a “plastic pipe bow “ ... I can only imaging the howling and grumbling going going on about “non traditional” and “toy bows” , especially if we win ...


----------



## barking mad

GPW said:


> I’m starting to wonder what’s going to happen when we show up at a shoot with a “plastic pipe bow “ ... I can only imaging the howling and grumbling going going on about “non traditional” and “toy bows” , especially if we win ...


Yes! Go for it. And please post the results.


----------



## Todd the archer

I have taken them to the fun traditional shoots (no scoring kept). The usual reaction is disbelief and then lots of questions, never anything negative.

Todd


----------



## JB_1974

About the same thing happens when I bring one of the bows that I make to the local range Todd.
Like today, I took my most recent creation up to shoot it in... Well lets say that about 150 of the 400+ 
arrows that went through that bow today weren't me (yay for saving my shoulders some wear and tear) 
it seemed like everyone and their dog wanted to take it for a test drive 0.0

but anyhow I'll snap some pics (before ad after of course) and post them up when I find my camera


----------



## Chupacabras

Does any one have a confirmed pvc pipe bow kill yet?


----------



## JB_1974

Not yet here, but I'll post a pick as soon as I take a hog down


----------



## Howard33

Came across this little gem of a new story while surfing the interwebz...

http://m.columbiatribune.com/su-a-bows-jpg/image_a3dfbca8-83b9-11e2-9edb-001a4bcf6878.html


----------



## Howard33

Also came across this in regards to hunting...


----------



## GPW

Now it’s Official !!!


----------



## JB_1974

Nice... a confirmed kill with a pvc bow


----------



## GPW

A friend called me last night telling me of the opening of a new Archery range in my area... They’re doing an “animal league” on Wed. nights ... mostly “compound” shooters... Should be interesting to see the reaction to PVC bows from that crowd ...


----------



## JB_1974

Yeah, that would be interesting. I wonder how many jaws would drop when you tell them it's plumbing pipe that you're flinging those sticks with.:set1_thinking:


----------



## GPW

Likely it will be the same crowd we used to shoot with before the other range closed , they’re accustomed to all the weird bows I used to bring in ... No surprises ... except maybe the PVC Hidatsa asymmetrical bow ... That might give them a little thrill .. before they suggest putting wheels on it ...


----------



## JB_1974

That's always good to know


----------



## pfbows

I go to the local range 1 time a month with the stuff I'm creating, most of the time I hear in muff-uld tones, why doesn't that guy buy a real bow. He shoots pretty- good . I think it's funny but I always keep a straight face because I have at least 10 bows that are classics and vintage stuff. It's kind of fun to watch their expressions when I pull out a bamboo arrow fletched with sheet foam instead of feathers. Hey I'm into DIY, it makes your brain work, way too many people have lost their brain functions from lack of trying. I hope to shoot a PVC bow in the TX longbow shoot next year. I might make a long bow with a pvc back and a bamboo core. Probably call it the Chinamin Plumber game #, who knows? Will post some photos soon, I'm technilogicly challenged currently & cain't spell worth a duck.


----------



## sjvcon

What is the heaviest draw weight people are getting out of these?


----------



## JB_1974

I recently finished a 1" pipe bow that pulls about 70# @ 28"... Way to heavy for me to pull it to full draw


----------



## sjvcon

Would the weight increase if you put a smaller pipe inside of a larger one ... say a 3/4" inside of a 1" and then flattened them together. I'd like to get one up around 90 or 95#. I know ... sounds like a lot ... I like a challenge.

Are most guys doing longbow style or recurve?


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## GPW

Putting one pipe inside another would raise the draw weight , but also the Mass weight ...  Better to use the larger diameter pipe and flatten it, which makes a broader safer limb cross section , higher draw weight , and less Mass...  Same old bow principles , new material ... the plastic tree... hahahaha


----------



## JB_1974

sjvcon said:


> Would the weight increase if you put a smaller pipe inside of a larger one ... say a 3/4" inside of a 1" and then flattened them together. I'd like to get one up around 90 or 95#. I know ... sounds like a lot ... I like a challenge.
> 
> Are most guys doing longbow style or recurve?


I'm personally making recurve style bows, horse bows, and Egyptian angular bows.
And just as GPW said, you'll get more draw weight out of a "2" pipe bow, but it'll 
add a lot of mass, my suggestion would be to make a recurve bow out of 1 1/4" 
pipe (about 60-65" long) 

One thing to consider when making a bow that heavy is that it will have a lot
of hand shock, so compensate by firing heavy arrows out of it and using a loose grip, 
and I do mean heavy arrows as in 1,000+ grains, or you might just rattle your wrist off

Another couple of other things to consider if you make a recurve is string pinch 
and the bow is most likely going to stack


----------



## sjvcon

Very cool. Thanks for the info.


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## JB_1974

sjvcon said:


> Very cool. Thanks for the info.


No worries, glad I can be of help ^_^


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## GPW

Hope everybody is getting their PVC bows ready for Hunting Season !!! Gonna’ be a new force in the woods this year ... Plastic !!!  And if there are any “traditional” arguments , consider fiberglass is Plastic too ... the resin anyway ...  All’s fair ...


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## JB_1974

That is very true Glen, I'm planning on making a center cut recurve here in the next couple of days, ordering a set of zwickey eskimo screw on broad heads (two bladed variety) and grabbing a couple of my closest friend. Then heading out to my friends farm in central Oregon and taking care of part of her wild hog problem.


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## GPW

Those darn hogs are Everywhere eh ... ?? Put a bounty on them here like they did Nutria, and that problem will soon be corrected ...


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## GPW

OAB (old archery buddy ) came over yesterday was amazed at the PVC bows ... shot a few arrows and was Convinced ... ( and he’s a quarter Indian too (native American - Wampanoag tribe member ) We decided to attend the next shoot with PVC bows and just not tell anybody ... see what happens ? ... hahahahaha We old guys are mischievous eh ...


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## JB_1974

Yep, Mischievous is good though. And as far as I now there is a 50.00 bounty on every hog killed here in Oregon, I just usually hunt them to fill my freezer, 50.00 a head is just an added bonus


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## GPW

Finally got around to pulling a PVC bow off the new jig ... It shoots fine , but bends too early into the handle .... Have to make some “adjustments” ... 

Sorry this took so long , I’ve been working on my new hunting/fishing/Bugout camper ..


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## JB_1974

Nice work there Glen, If you're having trouble with the grip bending, you could insert a smaller diameter section of pipe into the handle section to reinforce it and then flatten it as usual. 
It will take a bit longer to heat the grip up so that you can shape it however.

And now that you mentioned taking so long to post a bow, I've come to the realization that I haven't posted a bow here in a little while.... Gonna have to get into gear and do something about that :bolt:


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## GPW

It was the jig that was bending in the wrong place , so we’re “adjusting" that !!! A little re-heating and freehand shaping solved the problem on the #1bow ... much better now ... closer to what we wanted ...


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## JB_1974

Oh okay.... I thought the handle was bending when you drew it, anyhow I'm starting a new project today hopefully and 
I'll post the before and after pics as soon as I get the bows profile worked out, and juice up the battery for my camera

then again there's been two bows that I've been meaning to build, so maybe this will be a two for one


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## GPW

A two-fer'...  Yeah , once you cut that pipe for one , might as well make another ...  ..man, I just love PVC !!! This is FUN stuff !!!


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## JB_1974

Yeah it is, I just happened to buy a 10' section of 1" pipe yesterday, and the guys at Ace were nice enough to cut it in half for me, so we'll see how ambitious I am today


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## pfbows

I have made 3 PVC horsebows so far & I haven't tried the reverse curve in the handle. What is the engineering aspect that reduces hand shock. You have the limbs on either side with larger reversed direction curve, then the handle with opposite and smaller arc shock wave dampener ????? I'm new to this bow building stuff, I was an artist all my life, not an engineer, or very scientific if "U" know what I mean. I find this archery stuff interesting and confusing sometimes. Any help is appreciated & I would like to do a PVC bow trade with some people 2. Most of the stuff I made previously was wood long bows, all of them I have made hand shock to me . Loose grip with a power full bow is very inconsistent in shooting groups 4 me.


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## JB_1974

As far as reducing hand shock goes, I usually find it helpful to introduce a bit of deflex about 5" from the riser section on bow with a reflexed handle/limb tips. Also matching the grain weight of the arrows you're shooting to the draw weight of the bow (10-12 grains per pound of draw weight) also helps a lot... Say if you're shooting a 55# bow you want to use 550 or 660 grain arrow, I mean the bow will be a bit slower upon loosing but you'll find that you get deeper penetration and have more consistent groups.

Also if you make an asymmetrical bow like the one GPW posted above, or a yumi hankyu, scythian, or something of a similar style they have very little if any hand shock, that's been my experience anyways. Anyhow I hope this helps and have fun with your new hobby. 

John B.


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## GPW

Odd, the new bow , just like the prototype (although flattened/tapered) has no real hand shock , just a little push, that’s it ... Gotta’ be some complicated wave form theory and some big math ... I can’t handle that , I just know it works , and humbly accept it ... There is something new with the asymmetrical bows that’s happening, that we haven’t experienced before in making hundreds of more Traditional bows ... maybe a Samurai “Mojo" thing ... I dunno’ ... All just FUN for me ...  
The Hidatsa bow style is very odd, sorta reversed , but bends nicely and shoots Flat ... sort of a bow oddity , but figure the Indians would not have used it if it didn’t work ..and they used them as Clubs too .....


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## stevendrake01

I just got into bow hunting last year and ran across BB researching how to stuff on bow shooting and hunting. I have been making these bows for the kids and they love the things. Crap, I have fun shooting them too. Easy, cheap and a lot better durability than I would have ever imagined!


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## GPW

Kiddie bows ... Now there’s the Future of Traditional archery !!! ... PVC does seem Perfect eh !!!  And these things really shoot ...


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## stevendrake01

And my little buddies new bow. Haha, and the stand he just had to have so my bow stand would have a friend.


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## GPW

That’s Too Cute ... Great form too ...


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## JB_1974

I never knew that they used bows as clubs... O_O 
As far as hand shock/wave form theory goes, when you loose an arrow the left over energy from the release travels from the 
limb tips to the handle, so offsetting the handle to the lower third in theory reduces the vibrations and gives you that little bit
of push when you loose an arrow, thus eliminating the majority of the hand shock... That's the theory that I came up with 
anyhow. As you said, all I know is that it works, and just humbly accept it ^_^


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## stevendrake01

Thanks. The kids love it. My boy especially. He has to practice a few rounds each time daddy does. My little shadow. And form, yeah that kid will be teaching me or making me jealous real soon I do believe.


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## GPW

Guess when you run out of arrows you have to “use what you got” ... hahahaha The Hidatsa/Mandan Indians used mostly Ash and Ironwood ... two good Club candidates ... 

Asymmetrical bows... Although I was never a believer in the past , I’m hooked now ... They *Shoot !!!*  PVC makes this experimenting so EASY (and affordable ) ...


----------



## TexaCali

Just made my first PVC bow tonight - wow, I'm amazed how quick and easy this was. I did the "Hunger Games Bow" from BYB's Youtube series (looked like an interesting bow), and despite being my first attempt, it appears to have come out not bad. We will see how it shoots tomorrow....

So this has me wondering - what are your favorite PVC bow designs? We need a "hall of fame" for the best performing designs to guide us newbies.


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## JB_1974

I can't talk for everyone else, but my favorite design as far as making PVC bows would have to be horse bows (Mongolian, Korean, Turkish, Assyrian &tc.) and Japanese Yumi (asymmetrical) bows 
horse bows because they're compact, don't get hung up on low lying branches when I'm stumping or rabbit hunting, and they pack a lot of punch i.e. I can cram a 48# draw weight into a 50" 
section of 3/4" pipe and I like the Yumi bow because... Well it it's impressive looking, you can draw one all the way back to the north pole and last but not least, no hand shock because the grip is set into the lower third of the bow


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## JB_1974

I can't talk for everyone else, but my favorite design(s) as far as making PVC bows go would have to be horse bows (Mongolian, Korean, Turkish, Assyrian &tc.) and Japanese Yumi (asymmetrical) bows 
horse bows because they're compact, don't get hung up on low lying branches when I'm stumping or rabbit hunting, and they pack a lot of punch i.e. I can cram a 48# draw weight into a 50" 
section of 3/4" pipe and I like the Yumi bow because... Well it it's impressive looking, you can draw one all the way back to the north pole and last but not least, no hand shock because the grip is set into the lower third of the bow


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## GPW

So good , it was worth sayin’ twice !!!  


The best thing is you don’t have to dig through piles of boards at a box store or lumberyard , don’t have to cut any trees down, wait for them to dry ... Just check the PVC date codes for fresh stock , and you’re bow making ...  No shavings all over , no sanding , no exotic tools (other than a heat gun) ... how easy can it get ?


----------



## MGF

GPW said:


> So good , it was worth sayin’ twice !!!
> 
> 
> The best thing is you don’t have to dig through piles of boards at a box store or lumberyard , don’t have to cut any trees down, wait for them to dry ... Just check the PVC date codes for fresh stock , and you’re bow making ...  No shavings all over , no sanding , no exotic tools (other than a heat gun) ... how easy can it get ?


Maybe I'm missing something but I don't even have any exotic tools for making wood bows. LOL


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## Chupacabras

This is a sweet little horse bow made by Borders. I haven't had time but would really like to see if someone could make a static tip recurve from pvc.


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## JB_1974

Chup, look at page 9 of this thread, 6th post down, it's a recurve (of sorts) and it has static tips ^_^


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## iluvgear1

I am surprised nobody has mentioned it but there is a special electric heat mat that electricians use when fabricating pvc conduit for running wires. I saw the electrician use one when he was wiring some air compressors at my business.


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## JB_1974

GPW said:


> So good , it was worth sayin’ twice !!!
> 
> 
> The best thing is you don’t have to dig through piles of boards at a box store or lumberyard , don’t have to cut any trees down, wait for them to dry ... Just check the PVC date codes for fresh stock , and you’re bow making ...  No shavings all over , no sanding , no exotic tools (other than a heat gun) ... how easy can it get ?


Stoopid double posts.... I think the forum was being glitchy, didn't even realize until I read this post


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## GPW

heat mat !!! That could be interesting ... !!!


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## BigPapaGuss

Alright, this is the first time i have read through an ENTIRE forum thread's history. When it popped up with an "unread post" I have to admit I went " Oh, that has to be a Load of stink..." BUt reading with the power you are talking adn the durability? plus the price? 

I have a niece that has been crazy for stick slinging since she saw "Brave" had a play bow and loved it to pieces. (literally) NOw, her uncle, the Coyote Killer, can make her a better bow and, with dowels and some feathers, I can get her headed in the right direction. Though her mom is terrified with the idea of her little girl hunting, The Girl has already called me eight times asking if she cna come hunting with me about four times since Labor day. 

I have my muse, Now I ahve my craft- I went to harbor freight, bought the heat gun, got some ideas about how i wanna flatten and bend the pipe for my niece's bow. I'm hooked and I haven't even started yet.


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## GPW

Big Papa.... You’re gonna’ Love this .... These bows really shoot !!! NOT a Toy !!!!


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## BigPapaGuss

GPW-
I hear that! She might be six, but it's time to get her started right. I think a PVC bow with a Flemish string will be perfect way to get her going. Old School Off-the-knuckle robin hood! I have her glue on points on the way and will have a few hay bales for her. she wants to go a hunting already.. Mom wants her to understand what it entails completely. >_> so, this coming winter, she's going to be fishing with her favorite uncle and seeing an animal die for food for the first time. See what happens. she already loves face painting me before i head out for a hunt.


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## JB_1974

Definitely not toys, I've made 15 of 'em and so far and they've all weighed in at over 40#. And a more than few of them break the 160fps mark consistently.
Just as a word of caution Guss, don't skimp on a heat gun, I've had a couple friends get zapped really good by the ones that they sell at Harbor Freight 
(the 13.00-15.00 ones) I bought one at Home depot for $23.00 (Wagner HT-1000) a year ago and it's still going strong after 3 or 4 10 hour sessions


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## BigPapaGuss

Thanks for the warning! I go for investment in the Future when i buy anything that I am going to use. I spent 400 bucks for one at Harbor freight. I'm also going to use the smallest and thinnest pipe I can for my niece's bow, i want it to be, at the most 20# pull. how ever, I might try something nuts, shove one pipe in another and heat them up, and flatten the limbs for a recurve for my future brother in law.. you know, jsut to see what happens. lol 

anyone here tried that?


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## GPW

QUOTE: “ shove one pipe in another and heat them up” .... We found that unnecessary and more effort than it was worth unless you’re making a takedown bow ... If you want a Heavy bow , use the larger dia. PVC pipe or schedule 80 ...


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## BigPapaGuss

you know what? maybe to get the real big power I need to try and make a penobscot style bow like


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## JB_1974

OH!!! That's the Mantis Penobscot bow that my friend David on youtube made, I've been thinking of making one of those myself


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## BigPapaGuss

yeah, I am just wondering about the noise it might produce- and how fast that arrow is going when it leaves. LOL


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## JB_1974

In the video showing the bow he put velcro pads in between the sets of limbs to reduce noise/abrasion and says that it keeps the bow pretty quiet Here's the link to the video if you're interested 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2jSavFaL8k


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## GPW

Wow !!! that’s pretty Cool !!! So many designs you can easily make and experiment with using PVC ...


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## wolfarcher

My heat gun came in the mail today, been obsessed with BB, hawaiiarchers, and tim piateks videos for two weeks. Can't wait to try making BBs zombie slayer! Any tips for beginners?


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## GPW

Be careful you don’t burn yourself or scorch the pipe ... An Aluminum foil heating trough (like BB uses ) works better than just heating it on the floor ... be patient , it takes a few minutes for the PVC to start bending ... keep the heat gun moving ...


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## Chupacabras

That is a nice looking Penobscot bow. I would like to make a bow cut to center with a shelf. Any ideas on how to accomplish this?


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## GPW

Maybe just bend the limb to the side slightly till the string crosses the center shot position on the arrow pass ...We’ve made wood bows this way before , they shot fine..


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## JB_1974

Or you could double sleeve a 10" piece of 3/4" into the handle section of 1" pipe before flattening the limbs then press it to or past center like Nick does here 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0lChH5sTo


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## NuttyProfessor

A bow as a club was only second in CQB to the actual club.


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## JB_1974

okay then, I haven't uploaded any new bow pics in awhile, as I've been busy for the last couple of months, so here's a few pics of my latest
Stats

Based roughly off of what I think would be born if
an assyrian and a sipahe (ottoman/turkish) bow had a love child 

She's made from 48" of 1# sch 40
10"x3/4" siyahs (6" exposed)
weighs in at 46#@28" and 50# @ 32"

I finished her off with faux horn on the belly
faux wood on the back and siyahs and 4 coats
of Rustoleum Painters Touch satin finish clear
coat

And the pics


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## bob barnes

anything new?


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## Hank D Thoreau

I could show you mine but it is pretty ugly. I provided test results on another thread. I have not started number 2 yet.


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## bob barnes

I finally had my students make a few today. They were 60" longbows using 3/4" PVC. They were very pleased but only got 20-25# bows. These are big boys that really want 45-50# bows. I'm looking for suggestions.


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## bamatide15

I would suggest either starting with a shorter piece of PVC, using thicker diameter pipe, or going to a recurve/horse bow design.


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## JB_1974

@ bob barnes: If you're looking for 45-50# in a pvc bow, go with 1" pipe. 60" will give you that weight range depending on how aggressively you taper it. the one I posted above is 46# @ 28" and is 60" overall, if I would have given it about 2" of reflex at the handle it would have been closer to 55-60#


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## GPW

Now just sayin’.... although those are big boys , it may not be good to start them out on a heavier bow , as they haven’t yet developed the muscles required to handle a heavier bow ... accuracy and form will suffer... Probably best to start with a lighter bow ( ~35#) , develop proper form ,learn how to shoot, then work up to heavier draws... keeps the interest up and the discouragement down ...


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## bob barnes

I agree about everything you say... which is why we were trying to start with 35-40# bows...20-25# was just a little less than I wanted. i did see a video where BYB added siyahs made from flattened pieces of the next smaller size PVC, but didn't find the video of how he formed those pieces...still looking. I think maybe a 3/4" with siyahs would give them the weight ... Like you have been making bows for several years and prefer a nice r/d bow...these Turkish looking curves are a lot like a Holmegaard longbow but with more curves... 
Hey...at least we got the thread fired back up... LOL.
Bob


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## bob barnes

JB- how did you make the siyahs ? Looks like they are pieces stuck into the limb, and also looks like you removed quite a bit of the PVC to reduce mass...?


----------



## rannalf

Howdy everyone! I am new to archery, but my daughter got a youth compound for Christmas and it was so much fun that I decided I needed to be able to shoot with her. I started poking around and came across Nick's videos and whipped up a couple of PVC bows. I have been fooling with them a bit, and they are a load of fun! When I get a few minutes, I'll post up some pics of what I have so far. 

Of course, I made my first one a 60" recurve out of 1" pipe thinking "I'm a pretty strong guy, this will be perfect!" HA! I can draw and fire it, but I am well aware that it is too much bow for me to learn on. I was a bit surprised that 30 minutes of shooting off the knuckle got me grouping about 10" from 10 yards since I have only shot a bow a handful of times before, and never one without a sight of any kind. One of my buddies is an accomplished bowhunter and tried it at the house yesterday. The only thing he could say was "make me one of these things, ASAP! I'm going to kill a deer with it this season." I guess that means it came out pretty well  

I do have a couple of questions though - I made an endless loop string for it out of Zebco Omniflex Braid fishing line. It seems to perform well, but has been creeping. I understand from my research that this is probably the same material that is marketed as "HALO" serving. Probably not the best string material. Is there another good material that isn't $50 for a 1/4# spool? I mean, I suppose B50 or B55 would be much less expensive and still a "real" string. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated though.


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## JB_1974

You're exactly right about cutting away extra PVC to reduce mass, and they are stuck into the limb... What I did was I shaped the initial profile of the siyah (the exposed part) and then flattened the part to be inserted almost completely, then I heated it ups a little to puff out any any sharp creases. Then I measured 1/4" from either edge and drew a 3-4" center line cut a V heated up the terminal end of the V and pressed them together like what Nick (The Backyard Bowyer) did to shape the tips on his 80# longbow.

For the shaping of the tips I just measured 3/4" from the back of the siyah and then drew a 6" line (or was it 4") cut off the excess, heated up the belly side until edges closed, bent a gentle curve into them since the pipe was slightly pliable (as seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQfV05Yo_pY)

Anyhow sorry about the rambling and I hope that helps ^_^


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## GPW

Rann , we’ve been using the Paracord... Cheap and easy ... Good old B-50 Dacron is hard to beat for strings (JMHO) ...Thrifty!!


----------



## JB_1974

Yep Rann if you're going the Fishing line route, I'd go with Spider Wire (braided) for the actual string and use Omniflex for serving (spider wire is on par with fast flight as it's a kevlar based material)
as GPW said 550 paracord is a good alternative, and you can generally pick up some B50 or B55 (1/4# spool) for less than 20.00 total if you're buying it on line, otherwise it costs about $10-$11 of you're buying it at a pro shop depending on your state's sales tax.


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## bob barnes

thanks all! We will finish a couple r/d 3/4" bows today using the limb jig. I have no idea what the draw weight will be but I'm hoping for 35-40#.


----------



## GPW

What we found , you can always set back the handle a bit (heat and bend) to increase the draw weight a little , but as with any bow , more setback of the handle will increase the stress on the limbs , causing a bit more “set” (string follow) ... always a compromise ...


----------



## bob barnes

*PVC Bows*

so we finished a couple today and it wasn't great... I made a jig that basically shaped the bow like the picture I'm attaching... not only were they hard to string, but the bows wanted to turn and twist...? I'm thinking I need to flatten the limbs a bit more...? My jig didn't quite flatten the ends together and it tapered to a full round pipe at the fades...?
Bob


----------



## bamatide15

bob barnes said:


> so we finished a couple today and it wasn't great... I made a jig that basically shaped the bow like the picture I'm attaching... not only were they hard to string, but the bows wanted to turn and twist...? I'm thinking I need to flatten the limbs a bit more...? My jig didn't quite flatten the ends together and it tapered to a full round pipe at the fades...?
> Bob


I'm no expert but have made a couple for my daughters and one each for the wife and me. I have found that they will do that if I don't do both of the following. 
1. Sting it up and let it sit for at least a couple of hours or overnight. 
2. You need to have some sort of string "trough" on both recurves. It can be done with filing or contouring the flattened limbs. 

Again, I am no bowyer but we are having tons of fun with these cheap bows. I have made 5 now and have a total of $11 wrapped up in them. I also found that you can make an easy arrow rest/shelf out of a small Allen wrench. If you are like me you probably have 20+ of these laying around that came with something you bought to aid in its assembly.


----------



## JB_1974

bob barnes said:


> so we finished a couple today and it wasn't great... I made a jig that basically shaped the bow like the picture I'm attaching... not only were they hard to string, but the bows wanted to turn and twist...? I'm thinking I need to flatten the limbs a bit more...? My jig didn't quite flatten the ends together and it tapered to a full round pipe at the fades...?
> Bob


Sounds like the pipe got twisted a little when you pressed them with the jig, that would explain the limbs wanting to twist when the bow's strung. Luckily it's an easy fix. First you want to sight down the back of the bow to make sure that the tips line up right, if they're not then the twisted section should stick out like a sore thumb, then you heat up the section that's out of alignment (just so that it's hot, not to the point that it becomes pliable) and pull it across your knee or shins in the opposite direction hat the bend is going... Hopefully that will straighten things out for you


----------



## bob barnes

thanks...got a couple more finished today without any problems...EXCEPT for the fact that my wonderful students dropped BOTH of my Wagner heat guns and now they only blow cold air! I went to ACE and picked up 2 more, but will lay down the law tomorrow as far as taking care of them... it sure raises the price of a bow when you have to replace the heat guns...


----------



## bob barnes

Another question- I see that some heat guns have a cool down cycle...is it worth the extra money? I have used my Wagners for 10 or 12 years on osage bows and never had a problem, but they just turn on or off...no cool down... any ideas?


----------



## GPW

Bob , we’ve been using the Harbor Freight heat gun .... it’s cheap , has a base to stand it up for heating PVC over, made a lot of PVC bows so far , and seen use on other projects too ... If it breaks , no big deal ...


----------



## bob barnes

picked 2 up at the local Ace Hardware...$25 for the 1000 degree 2 speed and $32 for the digital multi-setting 1100 degree...the only 2 guns they had. I will probably buy myself something different. Some bows finished today at school ...several were too far out of plumb to work right...so kids can learn patience making PVC bows after all...


----------



## JB_1974

bob barnes said:


> Another question- I see that some heat guns have a cool down cycle...is it worth the extra money? I have used my Wagners for 10 or 12 years on osage bows and never had a problem, but they just turn on or off...no cool down... any ideas?


Can't really say whether or not spending the extra money for a heat gun that has a cool down cycle is worth it. I rely on the old cool down method... Turning it off when it gets too hot, I also have a Wagner heat gun that I've had for about a year and a half, it's been dropped and I've ran it for ten hours straight before (removing paint and re-flowing solder) on the high setting and it shows no signs of being ready to give up the ghost .

So my assumption is that as long as you don't mistreat one too badly it'll last you a lifetime... Probably, I have been wrong before


----------



## bob barnes

They might last a lifetime with "home use" but it only took 3 days with "high school student abuse"... LOL... I have straightened out a ton of osage making wood bows with my 1 Wagner heat guns...dropping a hot heat gun did them both in... 
I will buy myself a new one and leave it at home!


----------



## GPW

Well , that’s one of the beauties of PVC... if “out of plumb” , you can just re-heat it and bend to the correct shape ... Hard to do with wood ...


----------



## rannalf

That's the truth. I just made one like Nick's "Hobbit inspired elven horsebow" and I need to adjust the siyahs since they are both pulling a bit to the right. Since I made the handle offset to the right to get it closer to centershot, that isn't going to work. A little heat and tweaking, and I'm sure they will be as good as new. 

As to my earlier post, I think I'm just going to order some B50 or B55 and use my omniflex for serving. Should definitely be better than the 550 cord I am using to determine the cord length.


----------



## GPW

We found common paracord holds up pretty well to everyday shooting ... cheap enough to replace often , but it does stretch ... Pre-stretching by tying a length to a rafter and hanging a cinder block from it a while really helps ... Just sayin' ....Everybody has their own Favorite string material ... Use what You want ... it all seems to work ...


----------



## Live In a Park

I can testify that you can make a simple flat-limbed PVC bow over a charcoal grill fire. I'm about as good a bowyer as I am an archer: terrible but enjoying it!

(Yes, that darn PVC pipe bow thread again!)


----------



## Soren

*N00b*

Hi Everyone,

I have read this entire thread. I have watched many of videos on PVC bow making. I am interested in making bows on a budget for me and my son.

I think that Tauriel from The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug has a cool looking bow:









I think that I can replicate the basic curves of the limbs, but the structural look of the limbs is more than I'd like to take on for my first PVC bow.

I have a 31" draw.

My son has a 27" draw.

Since we are beginners, I would think we should makes bows with about 35 lb. draw.

I know there are a huge number of variables, but do you have any recommendations to the lengths of these 3/4" PVC bows?

I have a 31" Draw. For mine I was thinking a 6’ long, 3/4" PVC would have a 35# draw at 31".

My son, Rick, has a 27" Draw. For his I was thinking a 5’ long, 3/4" PVC would have a 35# draw at 27".

Also, could I ask a huge favor of you? Since I am making jigs from 2”x10” [I will let the ends stick out of the jig at each end.], it would be extremely helpful if you would take a picture or video of half of a similar unstrung bow lying near a framing square or yardstick. 

Thanks again,
Soren

P.S. We have each made a pattern and I would appreciate any suggestions you have.
Here is mine:








Here is my son’s design:


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## Soren

Does anyone else have issues posting while using Google Chrome? I had to dust of Internet Explorer to post.


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## JB_1974

Soren said:


> Does anyone else have issues posting while using Google Chrome? I had to dust of Internet Explorer to post.


Couldn't tell ya... I'm a loyal Firefox user myself. I tried Chrome awhile back and found that it was way too buggy for my tastes, and I wouldn't touch internet exploder with a ten foot pole


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## JB_1974

@ NOOB (Greg is it?) You could just dispense with making a jig and use a 9" soup pot to shape the curves, you could also check out Backyard Bowyer's YouTube channel (This Video Series in particular... part 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQfV05Yo_pY part 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIo_GBRxxy4 and shooting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBwIKE6R1S4). As far as weight to length ratio goes I wouldn't go any longer than 54 inches to get 35# at a 31" draw length or 52" for a 27" draw length using 3/4" pipe.


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## JB_1974

@GPW:
Since you're thinking of production lining some bows and are worrying about even heating without scorching pipe
I thought I'd share this with our merry little band.

http://backyardbowyer.blogspot.com/2014/02/pvc-bow-hot-box-layout-and-material-list.html

This particular box will let yo heat three limbs at a time (I think in a demo of said hot box it took about 5 minutes to heat a 1" limb)
and it wold generally only cost you the price of a decent heat gun to make ^_^

Also here's links to the video series

Part 1.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-J9SGe7V-g
Part 2.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUNPQF8HrXI
Part 3.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkVtmj7RoPA
Part 4.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqyIWiSwiTk
Part 5.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0soee1QQG8 (optional)
and Part 6.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qExmswRFLwY (Running the box)


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## JDBrown

I built my first PVC pipe bow the other day for my 2-year-old daughter. It's a 32" longbow (well, it's long to her since she's only 32" tall) made from 1/2" thin wall PVC (I think it's Class 200). The pipe has been flattened, tapered and deflexed to make it light enough for her to draw by herself. It's got a Flemish string made from 2 strands of nylon Mason's twine, and the serving is cotton or polyester sewing thread with a coating of wax from an old candle.

I made her arrow from a piece of bamboo that was too small to make an arrow for an adult. It's got a large foam tip for safety, a self nock reinforced with dental floss and super glue, and duct tape fletching.


























She loves it. Any time she sees her bow and arrow, she starts saying, "My shoot it! My shoot it!" It's awesome. I'm so excited I just had to share.


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## Aronnax

*Bad Luck*

In the spirit of caution and fair warning I felt that I should post my personal experience with my pvc pipe bows...

Like a lot of you, I found this out by happen-chance, while trying to figure out what kind I bow I should get as a beginner. I saw this as a very cheap and fun way to get into archery, and I still have the intention to buy a proper trad and/or compound bow in the future.

So, I got to building. One of my earlier efforts was a 50-ish lb long bow made from 1" sch40 (approx 56" nock to nock). It didn't shoot so great, plus coupled with my less than developed archery muscles it wasn't very much fun to shoot. I made more bows, and ended up with a very nice 30-ish pounder similar to BackyardBowyer's zombie slayer bow(62"-ish nock to nock), also 1" sch 40. I really liked that one, particularly the handle shape was much more pleasant to grip. I revisited my 50# bow and reshaped the handle, and that really improved its shooting. By now my strength improved a lot, and I was watching a lot of Greyarcher videos on intuitive shooting, and I was having a good time. I even took the time to put a rest on it, paint it, nice faom rubber stitched grip and everything.

But then, it broke. The bow just snapped very suddenly in half, right in the middle of the grip. Fortunately it was a very uneventful break, I just found myself standing in a drawn position, with two limb stumps, an arrow, and a string sitting on the ground in front of me. I nearly shed a tear, walked into the house, and moped around for a while.

After my time of mourning was over, I picked back up the 30 pounder and started shooting away, even though my arrows were spined for the heavier bow, I just made do. Shooting stiff arrows in a light bow is better than not shooting at all. All was ok, I was having fun with that bow. Life got busy, and I have not yet had the time to make any more bows. And besides, I wasn't making any more bows until I make a better limb flattening jig. I had originally planned on handing this bow down to my oldest boy, and was preparing to get it all painted up in the near future- until last night when this one snapped clean in half too. Except this time, instead of being completely uneventful, the limb stump slapped me in the middle finger really hard, and the limb tip caught me in the abdomen. My tummy has a small bruise (thank God it didn't hit any lower), and my finger REALLY hurt. 

So now what? I used fresh clean pvc. It was never stored in the sun, and it's been a really mild winter here in the southwest. But times I they broke the temp was not below 50F. I'm having a hard time reconciling in my head why my bows broke, yet there are so many shooting pvc bows with such high reliability. I originally assumed the 56" bow length was too short for my long-ish draw length. I'm 6'2" and draw about 30-31". I have a very comfortable anchor point under my cheek bone, just in front of my ear. 

Now I don't know what I'm going to do. I may just make light draw weight bows for my kids, and save my money for a proper reflex/deflex longbow.

-Aronnax


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## JB_1974

@ Arronax:

I'm not sure what happened but it sounds like you made the bows a little too short for your draw length. Generally I make most of my bows between 58 & 60" long which yields a 45-50 pound bow in most cases, I've had them be as heavy as 65-70 lbs due to recurving the tips, or making them into a horse bow profile, all of them have shot reliably, and I have a 32" draw length using thumb draw. One thing I have to ask is did the pipe have any discoloration in the handle after you heated/shaped it, and were there any sharp creases near the transitions? Those could be contributing factors in having a bow snap/collapse on you.


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## Aronnax

I thought the same thing about the first bow being pretty short, but the 2nd one that broke was around 6" longer and still broke. No discoloration, very smooth transitions in the handle area....


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## JB_1974

Aronnax said:


> I thought the same thing about the first bow being pretty short, but the 2nd one that broke was around 6" longer and still broke. No discoloration, very smooth transitions in the handle area....


Hmmm... That's odd, were you using older pipe? It's a good rule of thumb to not use any pipe over say... 1-2 years old to help minimize the chances of having a failure. Also it could just be the brand you're using. I've had a couple of bows snap on me when I was using pipe that I didn't buy from my regular dealer


----------



## Chupacabras

I am getting ready to build a Turkish flight bow 50 -60lbs. What is the strongest light weight material that can be used for the syhas? 
carbon fiber would be ideal.


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## JB_1974

As far as building a "Sipahe" bow goes I'd actually use a light weight hardwood such as poplar oak or maple for forming the Kasan and Bash for fear that carbon fiber will eventually wear down and snap the string.

As far as pipe goes I'd use 1" about 44-46" long for the core of the bow and make the exposed parts of the siyahs about 4-4.5" long (I think that will give you your desired draw weight). here's a siyah template that my friend uploaded to his Google + community awhile back if you're interested. These are the dimensions of a standard kasan and bash you can scale it up or down to fit the dimensions of the bow you're going to build 









Anyhow I hope that helps 

John B


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## JB_1974

Oh yeah before I forget here's a link to a friends "quick reference guide" for all the new comers or those of you who want to know exactly what PVC is capable of
http://goldenhordebows.blogspot.com/2013/09/archery-quick-reference-v299-for-pvc.html 

Enjoy ^_^


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## diamondarcher24

I've made a million pvc longbows I can get a fairly high draw weight with a 48 inch bow and a 1 Inch thickness
This stuff never breaks 
My 48 inch goes to a 29.5 inch draw without collapsing with no heat


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## diamondarcher24

Oh one question for anyone who can answer it. Are there any dangers to heating pvc and breathing it in? Or even cutting and filing pvc?


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## Taco_seasoning

diamondarcher24 said:


> Oh one question for anyone who can answer it. Are there any dangers to heating pvc and breathing it in? Or even cutting and filing pvc?


Heating, yes. Don't breathe in the fumes because they are toxic. Do it in a well ventilated area.

Cutting and filing? Don't get it in your eyes.


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## diamondarcher24

Taco_seasoning said:


> Heating, yes. Don't breathe in the fumes because they are toxic. Do it in a well ventilated area.
> 
> Cutting and filing? Don't get it in your eyes.


Thank you so just do it outside or should I get a mask just to be safe (I've never used heat before)


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## Taco_seasoning

diamondarcher24 said:


> Thank you so just do it outside or should I get a mask just to be safe (I've never used heat before)


If you're not burning it, as in on fire, I think you'll be fine. I'd still do it outside though. 

From wiki


> PVC produces HCl upon combustion almost quantitatively related to its chlorine content. Extensive studies in Europe indicate that the chlorine found in emitted dioxins is not derived from HCl in the flue gases. Instead, most dioxins arise in the condensed solid phase by the reaction of inorganic chlorides with graphitic structures in char-containing ash particles. Copper acts as a catalyst for these reactions.[43]
> 
> Studies of household waste burning indicate consistent increases in dioxin generation with increasing PVC concentrations.[44] According to the EPA dioxin inventory, landfill fires are likely to represent an even larger source of dioxin to the environment. A survey of international studies consistently identifies high dioxin concentrations in areas affected by open waste burning and a study that looked at the homologue pattern found the sample with the highest dioxin concentration was "typical for the pyrolysis of PVC". Other EU studies indicate that PVC likely "accounts for the overwhelming majority of chlorine that is available for dioxin formation during landfill fires."[44]
> 
> The next largest sources of dioxin in the EPA inventory are medical and municipal waste incinerators.[45] Various studies have been conducted that reach contradictory results. For instance a study of commercial-scale incinerators showed no relationship between the PVC content of the waste and dioxin emissions.[46][47] Other studies have shown a clear correlation between dioxin formation and chloride content and indicate that PVC is a significant contributor to the formation of both dioxin and PCB in incinerators.[48][49][50]
> 
> In February 2007, the Technical and Scientific Advisory Committee of the US Green Building Council (USGBC) released its report on a PVC avoidance related materials credit for the LEED Green Building Rating system. The report concludes that "no single material shows up as the best across all the human health and environmental impact categories, nor as the worst" but that the "risk of dioxin emissions puts PVC consistently among the worst materials for human health impacts."[51]
> 
> In Europe the overwhelming importance of combustion conditions on dioxin formation has been established by numerous researchers. The single most important factor in forming dioxin-like compounds is the temperature of the combustion gases. Oxygen concentration also plays a major role on dioxin formation, but not the chlorine content.[52]


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## diamondarcher24

Taco_seasoning said:


> If you're not burning it, as in on fire, I think you'll be fine. I'd still do it outside though.
> 
> From wiki


Thank you 
Ill probably get a heat gun and do it outside


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## JB_1974

@diamondarcher24

If you're going to be using a heat gun outside it would definitely behoove you to make a heating trough out of either aluminum flashing or heavy duty aluminum foil (line a 3" mailing tube with it after cutting a 1.5" slit down the center) it'll save you a lot of time and the pipe won't loose heat as quickly


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## JB_1974

*sighs* Did the thread die again?


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## DrByte

Nick is a great resource and a true experimenter. He has made hundreds of the bows and shows them to be very dependable. They do not shatter as you might think they would. They usually just fold and he straightens them out with the heat gun and keeps on shooting. He now has about 5 books out and has recently moved to the mainland, somewhere up in Washington state I think. I have made a few of his bow designs and they work well. Nice to know you can if you had to. He also, like myseld makes Native American Style flutes. I do this at 4H camp and we call the material we make the flutes from "urban pine" (PVC). Like somebody mentioned above, it is nearly indestructible and takes less 'set' than most wood bows. Will never give up my woodworking, my wooden flutes and my wooden bows but it is a handy, quick alternative! Heat, flatten, bend, cut nocks and shoot! No glue drying time and no breaking in period!


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## DrByte

I read through most of the previous comments and saw where people were talking about boiling water. Won't get hot enough, PVC handles boiling water fine. You have to get it to between 300-350 degrees to be moldable. Not any more than 350 though because it will go through molecular changes that will immensely degrade it's flex and strength. Should be no fumes at 300 degrees. If you see discoloration, it will turn brownish/yellow, you have over heated it. Nick has all this info and more on his youtube site along with hundreds of videos and nearly 60 thousand subscribers!!


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## JB_1974

@ DrByte 

Yep you are correct about Nick moving to Washington. Vancouver to be exact. 
I met him in person last year when we did a bow trade, and have went shooting 
with him several times since then. And I've sat and picked his brain quite a few 
times.


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## Wolfbow

Hi all, this is my first post in here because I built my first PVC bow yesterday after seeing Nicks stuff on the net.
I have not shot a bow in 50 years and think it's about time I got back to it. 
G.


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## meast

Not all of us trad guys are that bad. Id like to give this a shot because I've been making self bows for my step daughter. Perhaps the pvc bows would be more durable than my crappy self bows.


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## Wolfbow

Trying to add a photo of my first bow. Let's see if I can.
It worked. I know this is an old thread but I hope to keep it alive.
I'll be posting a lot more here so stay tuned.


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## Wolfbow

You lucky dog. I would love to hang with him.
He seems like a very nice young man.


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## Wolfbow

I tried to flatten another bow tonight but it would not flatten without cracking at the tip.
I think it's because I used a different brand of pipe from Lowes. The first one I did came out nice and I got that pipe from HD.
So tomorrow I'll go to HD and get more of that brand and see if it makes any difference.


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## Wolfbow

Yes I had the same thing happen to the pipe I bought at Lowes. Got some from HD and it worked fine.
In all fairness, I did get the lowes pipe to flatten ok, but I had to heat it way more than the HD pipe.
I don't know if there is any difference in the way the bows preform using the two different brands of pipe as I have not made two bows of the same type from the different pipes. It seems to me that the HD pipe was easier to work with. It may all be just my inexperience with PVC bows that seems to make the pipe act difference because I see the Tim uses the lowes pipe with great success.


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## Wolfbow

Wolfbow said:


> Yes I had the same thing happen to the pipe I bought at Lowes. Got some from HD and it worked fine.
> In all fairness, I did get the lowes pipe to flatten ok, but I had to heat it way more than the HD pipe.
> I don't know if there is any difference in the way the bows preform using the two different brands of pipe as I have not made two bows of the same type from the different pipes. It seems to me that the HD pipe was easier to work with. It may all be just my inexperience with PVC bows that seems to make the pipe act difference because I see the Tim uses the lowes pipe with great success.


I see that I just answered my own post. How silly of me. Must be getting old.


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## Wolfbow

Here are two of my latest bows.


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## Mastervolume11

Hey Wolf, 
I'm just getting into this too. I having pretty good success and lots of ideas for how to flatten and recurve etc. It's been going good so far, but just starting out.
I made a 50lb Recurve with 1" Pipe and a 35lb Recurve with 3/4" pipe. Nothing painted or completely finished, but already shooting well.


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## Wolfbow

Mastervolume11 said:


> Hey Wolf,
> I'm just getting into this too. I having pretty good success and lots of ideas for how to flatten and recurve etc. It's been going good so far, but just starting out.
> I made a 50lb Recurve with 1" Pipe and a 35lb Recurve with 3/4" pipe. Nothing painted or completely finished, but already shooting well.


Hey Master, those poundages sound about right for the size of the PVC.
I'm going to make one out of 1" pipe this week.


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## NicBDA

I made my first foray into PVC bow building this weekend. I think I bit off more than I could chew with the 1" pipe. Bow formed very nicely, it's just left me over-bowed (for now, still a beginner, but wanted something to mess around with at home). Luckily I also bought a piece of 3/4" pipe for another project, and still have a 5' piece left. This weekends project is to repeat the design, but with the 3/4" for less draw weight. 

Since I am also making these bows for a costume event I made some arrows to match the costume from dowels  don't know how well they'd fly with no weight up from and and huge full feathers at the back though!


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## Wolfbow

I'm having a hard time getting a photo to post.
Any help?


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## Wolfbow

I got it. These are two of my latest bows. The top one is a Turkish and the bottom is Hungarian
The Hungarian is a 5 piece bow with wood handle and tips.


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## Mastervolume11

That's really great work for just starting out. They look incredible. How are they shooting?

I haven't even entertained using wood Siyahs yet. Still just working with all PVC for a while first. When I paint and dress mine, I'll try to post some photos.

What are you using for the string? I have been using Para cord so far, but hear it isn't the best. I haven't considered making my own strings yet, I would probably purchase some at the right length first and see how that goes.


----------



## Wolfbow

NicBDA said:


> I made my first foray into PVC bow building this weekend. I think I bit off more than I could chew with the 1" pipe. Bow formed very nicely, it's just left me over-bowed (for now, still a beginner, but wanted something to mess around with at home). Luckily I also bought a piece of 3/4" pipe for another project, and still have a 5' piece left. This weekends project is to repeat the design, but with the 3/4" for less draw weight.
> 
> Since I am also making these bows for a costume event I made some arrows to match the costume from dowels  don't know how well they'd fly with no weight up from and and huge full feathers at the back though!
> 
> View attachment 2004205
> 
> View attachment 2004206


Hey man, nice first bow. And I do like the arrows also. Haven't tried to make them yet. I've been using carbon and aluminum so far.
Got a piece of 1" PVC yesterday and will make a 60" bow with it later this week. 
All my 3/4" bows came out to be about 25# because of the design, but the 1" will be a bit more poundage like 40-45. Still more than I can pull with any acracy but still nice to have. I'm not building these bows to use for hunting (I don't hunt) but just for the expearence of making them. For me, the pleasure is in the process of making something,, not in the final product.


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## Wolfbow

Mastervolume11 said:


> That's really great work for just starting out. They look incredible. How are they shooting?
> 
> I haven't even entertained using wood Siyahs yet. Still just working with all PVC for a while first. When I paint and dress mine, I'll try to post some photos.
> 
> What are you using for the string? I have been using Para cord so far, but hear it isn't the best. I haven't considered making my own strings yet, I would probably purchase some at the right length first and see how that goes.


Thank you for the kind words.
I used para cord on my first two bows but decided to make my own string after seeing Nick's video on how to do it. 
And for me,, another great learning expearence. I've made 3 strings so far and it gets easier each time. 
Haven't made one with the Flemish twist yet but I'm sure I will some time soon. 
I did have to buy the B-50 string and the serving string but it cost a lot less than buying a ready made string and of course it's fun making them myself. 
Please keep posting what you all are doing.
W.


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## NicBDA

Wolfbow said:


> Hey man, nice first bow. And I do like the arrows also. Haven't tried to make them yet. I've been using carbon and aluminum so far.
> Got a piece of 1" PVC yesterday and will make a 60" bow with it later this week.
> All my 3/4" bows came out to be about 25# because of the design, but the 1" will be a bit more poundage like 40-45. Still more than I can pull with any acracy but still nice to have. I'm not building these bows to use for hunting (I don't hunt) but just for the expearence of making them. For me, the pleasure is in the process of making something,, not in the final product.


Thanks! The arrows don't have points so I don't know how they fly, though I picked the dowels as if I were choosing to make them properly. 

That bow is 5" long, and is pretty heavy to draw (for me at least).

For string, I used a thin nylon rope rated to 70# for the 1" pope bow. I also made a 3/4" pipe bow and use a 50# tie-down string for that one. I got the process of making a Flemish twist down, but without proper materials and wax, it's pretty tough


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## Wolfbow

NicBDA said:


> Thanks! The arrows don't have points so I don't know how they fly, though I picked the dowels as if I were choosing to make them properly.
> 
> That bow is 5" long, and is pretty heavy to draw (for me at least).
> 
> For string, I used a thin nylon rope rated to 70# for the 1" pope bow. I also made a 3/4" pipe bow and use a 50# tie-down string for that one. I got the process of making a Flemish twist down, but without proper materials and wax, it's pretty tough


I was using the para cord for my first two bows but soon realized I wanted to make my own. It was some work, but very satisfying when finished. Give it a try. You will need to order some B-50 string and some serving string, and make a bow string jig. 
It will cost a bit but you will be able to make all the strings you will need.


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## NicBDA

Yeah, I made a jig, and started making a string, however as it was the wrong material and I didn't have the right wax it didn't stick together at all, so became very difficult to manage. I did a nice braided one, but it was too short and too thin to use. The loop held in beautifully though


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## Wolfbow

Yeah, it helps to have the right material.


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## JB_1974

@NicBDA Are you using the jig for endless loop or Flemish strings? I personally prefer making the latter 'cause I can usually pop one out in ten minutes or less, and I usually have enough left over (if I make the strands long) to make a couple of whip crackers.

As far as string material goes I usually use B-55, it's a little less expensive and doesn't creep or stretch nearly as much as B-50 other than that I use about 14 strands Dyneema fishing line (you can get a 1km spool of it on Amazon for less than $30.00) because it doesn't stretch at all (very similar material to Fast Flight)

As far as wax is concerned... Bees wax is what most of the archers/bowyers I know use (and I use it personally) it's less expensive, ($21.00 for a 3# block as opposed to $15.00 for a 3oz stick of "bowstring" wax) plus it works better than bow string wax in my humble opinion.


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## NicBDA

I have a jig for measuring out the strands, the twisting part was working more or less, just not sticking so became a handful. I intend to buy a few rolls of b55 (thanks for the tip) and try again. I did think about the fishing line too. What pound test did you use? And I can probably get bees wax from my friends dad (keeps bees). Currently the lines I have are holding up well, so pretty happy thus far, but I do want to take another crack at string building.


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## JB_1974

Generally I use 100 pound Dyneema if I'm using fishing line, For B55 I go through Lancaster Archery, it usually costs me 20.00 and change for 2 quarter pound spools. 
As far as using a jig... I usually just measure out a strand four inches shorter than the nock to nock length of the bow and add on about 20-22" and then go from there.
If I wind up with any extra, it gets turned into whip crackers if it's long enough (15 inches or more)


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## Mastervolume11

First off, What's a "Whip Cracker". I have seen Whips and I have eaten crackers, but never the two have met. Are you maybe talking about the end of whip ie: The frayed end at the tip?

When using Fishing Line, I am assuming you don't still use wax? And what do you use for the "Serving". I'm not only new to PVC Bows, but new to Archery terminology in general, so I'm just trying to get up to speed. 

I just started with making some PVC Bows, which I will try to post some pics of shortly.

Thanks


----------



## Mastervolume11

Here are my first few attempts at PVC Bows. I'm using Para-Cord right now, but I'm going to have to move on from that. I'm curious about using fishing line vs B-50 or B-55 (whatever they are) and which is better and why. There's a few comments before each photo.


Below is my first bow. 1" PVC Flattened each end and then added the re-curve to each end. I flattened the riser/handle past center at first, but the Bow flexed horizontally. So I reheated and flattened it a little less, but still added a totally flat 4" PVC on one side to help strengthen it and to use as a shelf. So I basically used the design in this video, but the techniques from Nick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WMXtm83aZo - This guys makes some cool DIY weapons, check it out.
I haven't translated, so I don't know all the specs, but I liked the riser and the PVC shelf, so basically, that is all I took from this video vs a Nick video. The only difference is I left the tips square and didn't remove any material. So as not to weaken it.









Below is that bow strung up. Seems okay from my limited experience. Shoots really well. The shelf really helps. I used a round file so the arrow has a nice groove to sit in. That seems to work well. It's about a 1/2" off being a center shot, or close to that. It is 50# at 28" - But it makes a pretty loud "Boing" sound when shot. Not sure what's causing that, any advice would be appreciated.









Below is my 2nd bow and my first 3/4". It started identical to the 1" version above, but at 3/4" instead. I later tried to make it a "Horse Bow" (Sort of). In other words tried to curve the limbs a bit the other way. I think it's called Deflex (I'm not sure). I did this off the cuff and as you can see, the limbs aren't quite even and one as a sort of kink in it when strung. I can fix this later, but...............









Despite the kink on one limb. This bow actually shoots really well and very smooth. It's 35# at 28" and shoots better than the 1" one I did. I'm not sure if that's because of the style or what.

When I shoot the 1" I get a really loud "Boing" after the shot, yet the 3/4" is virtually silent. So now I am going to try a 1" bow with the same shape as the 3/4" and see if I can get the same shot quality with more #'s.

I wrapped the riser with leather. I soaked it in water first, so it would shrink and tighten when dry and used a little spray adhesive to hold it in place. Of all things, that came out really well and feels really good. Here is that bow strung up. You can see the difference in each limb. I could fix it, but I will probably just make another one from scratch.








Some of my Jigs in the next post.


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## Mastervolume11

Here are a few of the Jigs I am using. 


Below is my flattening jig. Basically identical to what Nick has shown with the adjustable height and I rounded out the edge that squishes down on the end of the handle area. The only difference is I added some aluminum flat stock on both sides. This really helps with keeping everything square as you put pressure on the top piece of 2x4. You can stand on it or use clamps. I prefer to just stand on it, because by the time I get clamps on, sometimes it's too late in the cool temp area I am doing this in. And I only have to stand on it for a few minutes anyway, then remove it and check for any final alignment issues. But so far, everything comes out very straight with very little post flattening adjustment. I line the end of the limb to the end of the bottom 2x4 and the top 2x4 overhangs the bottom. This makes almost a completely squished end that isn't flat in the middle and opened up on each side.









This is a little jig I use for the handle area. After each end is flattened and cooled, I lay it on it's side against the back of the two little pieces of wood. Then I put down the front two pieces so they are snug against the limbs and screw them down with dry wall screws. Just re-screw down for various sizes. From here you can heat up and work on the handle without worrying about the limbs heating up and puffing back up. I heat it up right in this jig and use about an 8" long piece of 1" PVC as a sort of "Rolling Pin" and just go back and forth until the handle takes shape. I didn't photo it, but I have a couple pieces of wood that are rounded and cut to the shape I want the opposite side of the handle to take, the bottom of the handle forms around the lower piece of wood and you can easily make the top and bottom even, if that's the desired outcome. But this also works really well without a bottom piece of wood, this keeps the bottom flat and even with the limbs, while the top is shaped as desired, in case you want to try for a center shot or close to it. So far this jig seems to be working out very well. Experiment as needed.









This final jig is what I used for doing the re-curves. The Half round piece of wood is about 7" in Diameter and is something used for working on guitar necks (which is one of my main gigs). It's screwed down from the opposite side to the particle board. Then I have a small piece of wood to hold the end of the limb in place. As I heat it up, I bend it around the rounded wood until I get it where I want. Then outline the limb with a pencil or marker, let it cool, then flip over the bow and repeat, lining up the second limb with the outline of the first. This way both are extremely even. 

Obviously, I didn't use or have something similar to this for the "Deflex" I put in my first 3/4" bow and both limbs came out uneven. So I am going to come up with something for that as well. But using jigs like this, seems to really help keep things square and symmetrical vs just eyeballing it. At least for me anyway. I tend to be an OCD plagued perfectionist, so things like this really work for me.









Let me know what you think and if you have any questions or comments.


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## Wolfpackhowl

I've made a few PVC pipe bows, and they are great, my problem has been getting the limbs to flex evenly, and so far all of my PVC takedown bows have failed on me. I do the traditional 3 limb bow with wooden riser and bolt the limbs to the riser, but the bow will either break along the riser or flex so much that it fails on itself.


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## Mastervolume11

I haven't tried making any Takedown bows yet. But I plan to. I'm not sure what a 3 Limb bow is, but I'll have to look into that now as well (Crap, one more thing to make). But seriously, the more "jigs" you use, whether like mine, your own design or some other person's, at least for me, they are the key to keeping the limbs even.

On my first 1" bow, everything came out very even. I spent 4 times more time making the jigs than I did the bow itself. When pulled to 28" on my Tiller Tree it's very symmetrical. Unfortunately, I didn't photo the 3/4" Bow before I did my "Eye Ball" experiment to bend the limbs. But prior to that, the limbs were extremely even as well, just like the 1".

I'm not trying to boast. On the contrary, I am saying I can't make these without Jigs of some kind. I rely on them.
For me at least, I can't rely on eye balling it. If I want both limbs even or curves to be the same, I need to use some kind of jig and it makes all the difference. If suppose if your a Savant, you could eye ball everything and have it come out perfectly even. But not for me. I'm too much of a perfectionist.

I do a lot of work on guitars, where the tolerances are far more precise than bows, down to 100ths of a inch. So I have been drawing from that experience when trying to make these PVC Bows precise and even.


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## Mastervolume11

I read your post again. So a 3 Limb Bow is a Take down bow with a Wooden riser and 2 limbs of some kind of material, in your case PVC. Is that correct?

I was going to try doing that exact same thing, but I haven't yet. On your attempts, is the wooden riser breaking or are the PVC Limbs breaking or failing?

The one that I was going to make was going to be with 1 1/4" PVC at minimum. With lots of recurve. So it looks like a very traditional Take Down bow. My plan was to use a single bolt for each limb, with large fender washers to prevent breakage at the bolt area. 

Is that basically what you did? And if I do that, am I wasting my time?


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## Mastervolume11

*My Latest PVC Bows*

Here are some I have been working on. Some are done, but some still need painting and finishing.

The "Long" bow is basically done. I tapered the points and re-enforced them with a flat piece of PVC. This bow shoots really smooth at about 45# at 28". It's also "very" Close to a Center shot, which is very cool and fun to shoot.
I might re-curve it if I can, just to see what happens and if it improves performance. I expect it will.

The second bow is "Hungarian style Horse Bow" - I haven't decorated it yet, in these photos, but it's in the works. It pulls about 37# at 28" and shoots incredibly smooth and accurate, I love this Bow design so much. My next bow will be a 1" version for more power with the same design.

I might try one of these with wood Siyahs. But I am not sure if the wood Siyahs actually have a performance advantage or if they are just more authentic looking. If they have a legit performance benefit, I will definitely be looking into using them. But if it's just cosmetic, well I will probably skip them. If anyone has any info on whether or not they are beneficial or cosmetic please let me know.

Thanks everyone
Tom


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## diamondarcher24

Mastervolume11 said:


> Here are some I have been working on. Some are done, but some still need painting and finishing.
> 
> The "Long" bow is basically done. I tapered the points and re-enforced them with a flat piece of PVC. This bow shoots really smooth at about 45# at 28". It's also "very" Close to a Center shot, which is very cool and fun to shoot.
> I might re-curve it if I can, just to see what happens and if it improves performance. I expect it will.
> 
> The second bow is "Hungarian style Horse Bow" - I haven't decorated it yet, in these photos, but it's in the works. It pulls about 37# at 28" and shoots incredibly smooth and accurate, I love this Bow design so much. My next bow will be a 1" version for more power with the same design.
> 
> I might try one of these with wood Siyahs. But I am not sure if the wood Siyahs actually have a performance advantage or if they are just more authentic looking. If they have a legit performance benefit, I will definitely be looking into using them. But if it's just cosmetic, well I will probably skip them. If anyone has any info on whether or not they are beneficial or cosmetic please let me know.
> 
> Thanks everyone
> Tom


Those look great!
Now I'm in the mood...
How long are the bows?


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## Mastervolume11

Let's see, the "Long Bow" or "Self Bow" is 60" - So it's not super long. It's 1" PVC. And I reenforced the areas where the limbs are tapered. It pulls 45 Pounds at 28".

The "Horse Bow" is 52" after all the shaping. It pulls about 38# at 28". And it shoots incredibly fricken smooth. It's my favorite build so far. I love it. I am in the process of painting it and wrapping some leather around it to make it look more authentic.

My next one is going to be the same Horse Bow design, but with 1" PVC for more Power.

I'll post some pics once I paint and finish the Horse Bow.


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## Mastervolume11

How about the Wood Siyahs vs Just using the PVC? Is there a benefit beyond cosmetics? Anyone have any input on that subject?

Also - What are you guys using for PVC Bow Strings? Are you using regular bow strings (either DIY or bought) or are you using something like Paracord?

Right now I am using Paracord. But because I am brand new to this, I just discovered there is more than one kind of Paracord. There is the 550 and the other stuff. What is strange is the 550 seems to be considered better, but it's working weight is less. Any ideas?


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## diamondarcher24

Mastervolume11 said:


> How about the Wood Siyahs vs Just using the PVC? Is there a benefit beyond cosmetics? Anyone have any input on that subject?
> 
> Also - What are you guys using for PVC Bow Strings? Are you using regular bow strings (either DIY or bought) or are you using something like Paracord?
> 
> Right now I am using Paracord. But because I am brand new to this, I just discovered there is more than one kind of Paracord. There is the 550 and the other stuff. What is strange is the 550 seems to be considered better, but it's working weight is less. Any ideas?


For strings so far I just use normal paracord but it stretches ALOT so I usually make the string 6-7 inches shorter than the length of the bow so that I have a decent brace height once the stretching is over


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## diamondarcher24

diamondarcher24 said:


> For strings so far I just use normal paracord but it stretches ALOT so I usually make the string 6-7 inches shorter than the length of the bow so that I have a decent brace height once the stretching is over


On the subject of strings, pvc bows seem to have a lot of vibration, so I made DIY cat whiskers by cutting rubber bands into 2 inch lengths and wrapping serving around the center of the rubber bands around the bowstring. This seems to get rid of almost all the vibration and makes the bow much more of a pleasure to shoot


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## Mastervolume11

Do you have a Pic of that technique? And when you say "normal" Paracord do you mean the 550 version with the 7 distinct Nylon stands inside or the other variety with the more fluffy, less distinct braid?


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## diamondarcher24

By normal paracord I mean 
the non-550 version cheap Walmart paracord. 
Ill upload some pics tomorrow


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## wandyhee

my first PVC bow & thumb ring

















this is more for practice, since my Samick SKB are on the way. Used to active in archery before from 2006-2009 with few compound bow but now I want to relearn archery and this time I prefer traditional style for it's simplicity


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## Mastervolume11

Nice Looking bow for your first PVC version. Do you use that Ottoman for Test shots? It's just funny because I have one that looks identical, and when I finished my first bow, I was like "Hmm, I need something to shoot at. Ahah! Old Ottoman". It's kind of useless now


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## Mastervolume11

Here are some finished images of the Plain PVC Horse bow from my Last post. I painted it and wrapped it with suede lacing of various colors for the finishing touches.

Let me know what you think.


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## Mastervolume11

Here are the rest of the images:


It seems to shoot really well and very smooth. But I will need to start comparing these PVC Bows to the real deal before i make a final assessment. Either way , I love making them.


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## Mastervolume11

I just noticed that there is SCH 40 PVC that is about 450 psi and SCH 40 PVC that is thinner and only about 200 psi (depending on diameter) 
Has anyone used the thinner walled PVC and is it better or worse for bows?


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## f7 666

What a great idea!!


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## Mastervolume11

It's not an idea as much as it is a question. I am wondering which is better and if any has tried both, etc.


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## wandyhee

Mastervolume11 said:


> Nice Looking bow for your first PVC version. Do you use that Ottoman for Test shots? It's just funny because I have one that looks identical, and when I finished my first bow, I was like "Hmm, I need something to shoot at. Ahah! Old Ottoman". It's kind of useless now


Few shot and its like burning my thumb.. Now I'm using Manchu thumbring style, shoot better


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## Mastervolume11

I'm thinking of maybe using the heavier SCh40 for the main riser and limbs, but use the thinner stuff for Siyahs and see of that holds up. But who knows?


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## iswandy

Wolfbow said:


> Trying to add a photo of my first bow. Let's see if I can.
> It worked. I know this is an old thread but I hope to keep it alive.
> I'll be posting a lot more here so stay tuned.


I like the shape, look simple and neat. any pictures of unstrung and full draw?


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## RavenMad

Mastervolume11 said:


> How about the Wood Siyahs vs Just using the PVC? Is there a benefit beyond cosmetics? Anyone have any input on that subject?


Wooden siyahs are generally accepted (in the PVC Bow community) as more efficient that equivalent pvc tips and therefore provide a faster casting speed. I have two reasonably equivalent horsebows - one with pvc siyahs and the other wood siyahs. The all-pvc bow draws 50# and the wooden siyah bow only draws 44# but both fling an arrow out at around 130 fps. Therefore, you could conclude that, all else being roughly equal, the lighter tips of the wooden siyah bow are just much more efficient.


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## RavenMad

Here's a few I've made over the last 6 months or so:


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## Aronnax

Well, I posted back in February about my two bows that snapped in half in my hand, (post #442), and it happened again.

This time it was a 3/4" pipe kids bow, only pulling about 15lbs. A seriously LOW STRESS bow, and it broke in half, through the handle. No extreme temps, no over drawing, etc... My son was shooting it at the time, and he only draws about 24". I don't recall off the top of my head how long the bow was, but it was close to 60"... may have been 56 or 58, but I'm not sure. 

Honestly, it looks like a fatigue fracture. I'll try to remember to post a picture of how it broke. All my pipe was bought at either lowes or home depot, and as busy as those stores are I have to assume their stock turns over pretty frequently. It was never left out sitting in the sun.

I'm 100% done with pvc pipe bows.

BM


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## Mastervolume11

Aronnax said:


> Well, I posted back in February about my two bows that snapped in half in my hand, (post #442), and it happened again.
> 
> This time it was a 3/4" pipe kids bow, only pulling about 15lbs. A seriously LOW STRESS bow, and it broke in half, through the handle. No extreme temps, no over drawing, etc... My son was shooting it at the time, and he only draws about 24". I don't recall off the top of my head how long the bow was, but it was close to 60"... may have been 56 or 58, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Honestly, it looks like a fatigue fracture. I'll try to remember to post a picture of how it broke. All my pipe was bought at either lowes or home depot, and as busy as those stores are I have to assume their stock turns over pretty frequently. It was never left out sitting in the sun.
> 
> I'm 100% done with pvc pipe bows.
> 
> BM


Wow, that is odd. Not only that one bow snapped on you, but Multiple bows. I mean no offense, but I would seriously look at your building techniques. You can't just be the Frank Grimes of the PVC Bow world (Frank Grimes, unluckiest guy in the world on the Simpsons). So something is up. They are either overheated, or flattened when too cool and causing cracks. But breaking in half in and of itself is odd. Normally it just folds over. Unless it has a weak spot from overheating. I can't explain why you are having such bad luck, but if you could explain your process maybe we can get to the bottom of it. I have had zero issues at all on my first 5 bows, pulling in excess of 50#. 
So something is going on that should be fixable, if you're willing.
If it's a fatigue fracture, that would suggest some sort of stress point, where one part of the bow is not smoothly transitioning to the next. Rather it has a hard bend or kink, creating a weak spot.

You say the Pipe was all bought at Lowes or Home Dept. Was it definitely Sch 40 with the full PSI Rating?


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## Mastervolume11

RavenMad said:


> Here's a few I've made over the last 6 months or so:
> ]


Love this one. What kind of wood or woods do you suggest for the Siyahs?


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## iswandy

RavenMad said:


> Here's a few I've made over the last 6 months or so:


You have a very nice looking PVC bow collection there man. Cheers!


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## RavenMad

Mastervolume11 said:


> Love this one. What kind of wood or woods do you suggest for the Siyahs?


This one uses durian wood (as in, the tree that bears the smelly fruit  It's super light for a hardwood. Have also seen guys using poplar, oak, and maple. You can even use wooden coathangers - just split the two 'arms' and you've got ready-made siyahs!


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## RavenMad

iswandy said:


> You have a very nice looking PVC bow collection there man. Cheers!


Cheers bud. I still use that orange/black horsebow for daily practice. It pulls 50# at 28" and is smooth with no stack or handshock. Silent as a whisper too. I've just got my first 'real' bow (a Pro Hoyt Medalist) which is awesome but these PVC bows I can crank out in a couple of hours for next to nothing - you can't beat that


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## Aronnax

Mastervolume11 said:


> Wow, that is odd. Not only that one bow snapped on you, but Multiple bows. I mean no offense, but I would seriously look at your building techniques. You can't just be the Frank Grimes of the PVC Bow world (Frank Grimes, unluckiest guy in the world on the Simpsons). So something is up. They are either overheated, or flattened when too cool and causing cracks. But breaking in half in and of itself is odd. Normally it just folds over. Unless it has a weak spot from overheating. I can't explain why you are having such bad luck, but if you could explain your process maybe we can get to the bottom of it. I have had zero issues at all on my first 5 bows, pulling in excess of 50#.
> So something is going on that should be fixable, if you're willing.
> If it's a fatigue fracture, that would suggest some sort of stress point, where one part of the bow is not smoothly transitioning to the next. Rather it has a hard bend or kink, creating a weak spot.
> 
> You say the Pipe was all bought at Lowes or Home Dept. Was it definitely Sch 40 with the full PSI Rating?


Yup- full sch 40. Charlotte pipe, and another brand I can't recall. I think the Charlotte pipe comes from Lowe's. The pipe was dated either June or July of 2013, and I built the bow sometime in the fall... I was mistaken about the break location on my kids' bow, it was at the transition from the handle to the limb. My bows broke exactly in the middle of the handles.

I follow the Backyard bowyer youtube channel and his build methods. Squishing jigs, heat gun, etc...

BM


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## Mastervolume11

Aronnax said:


> Yup- full sch 40. Charlotte pipe, and another brand I can't recall. I think the Charlotte pipe comes from Lowe's. The pipe was dated either June or July of 2013, and I built the bow sometime in the fall... I was mistaken about the break location on my kids' bow, it was at the transition from the handle to the limb. My bows broke exactly in the middle of the handles.
> 
> I follow the Backyard bowyer youtube channel and his build methods. Squishing jigs, heat gun, etc...
> 
> BM


I have no reason to doubt what you are saying. But I have also used Backyard Bowyer for all my PVC Bow builds So far and have had zero issues. I would love to help, but honestly don't know how. Unless I saw a step by step process as you do it, I would have no way of determining why your bows are failing and everyone else's are fine. 

If you want to keep working on the issue, I am more than happy to help. My PVC Bows have been extremely reliable and repeatable in terms of shooting. So it's more than possible to make them work with the proper process.
Let me know if you want to try again.


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## Aronnax

Mastervolume11 said:


> I have no reason to doubt what you are saying. But I have also used Backyard Bowyer for all my PVC Bow builds So far and have had zero issues. I would love to help, but honestly don't know how. Unless I saw a step by step process as you do it, I would have no way of determining why your bows are failing and everyone else's are fine.
> 
> If you want to keep working on the issue, I am more than happy to help. My PVC Bows have been extremely reliable and repeatable in terms of shooting. So it's more than possible to make them work with the proper process.
> Let me know if you want to try again.


Thank you for taking the time to try and help, but honestly, as far as I'm concerned I'm done making pvc pipe bows. It was fun, I enjoyed the processes, and it rekindled my interest in archery... especially in gearing me towards traditional archery. I've now moved on to a r/d longbow, and couldn't be happier.

I'll keep the knowledge tucked away in case the zombie apocalypse actually happens and I need to improvise a zombie slaying weapon.  In all seriousness, that's how I ran across pvc pipe bows. I wasn't even looking into traditional archery, but trying to research what compound to get as a beginner. I ran across a thread on zombiehunters.org (I think) suggesting that a compound would be a poor choice for the apocalypse and a survivor would be better served learning how to improvise a bow from pvc pipe... That was the first I ever heard of such madness and had to look it up for myself. I could not, not, try it...

BM


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## Radam1026

RavenMad said:


> Here's a few I've made over the last 6 months or so:


Hey Raven, I would be interested to see what kind of jigs you have set up for your pvc builds. Do you press the bow one limb at a time? I m having a bit of trouble making sure that my limbs are strait, and have little bend... I made a couple of these and they were fun, so I made a couple more for my niece and nephew... I have to remake them so that they are weaker because I don't want my niece and nephew to kill each other with these things hahahah!!!!



Aronnax said:


> Thank you for taking the time to try and help, but honestly, as far as I'm concerned I'm done making pvc pipe bows. It was fun, I enjoyed the processes, and it rekindled my interest in archery... especially in gearing me towards traditional archery. I've now moved on to a r/d longbow, and couldn't be happier.
> 
> I'll keep the knowledge tucked away in case the zombie apocalypse actually happens and I need to improvise a zombie slaying weapon.  In all seriousness, that's how I ran across pvc pipe bows. I wasn't even looking into traditional archery, but trying to research what compound to get as a beginner. I ran across a thread on zombiehunters.org (I think) suggesting that a compound would be a poor choice for the apocalypse and a survivor would be better served learning how to improvise a bow from pvc pipe... That was the first I ever heard of such madness and had to look it up for myself. I could not, not, try it...
> 
> BM


I find it odd that you are having the breaking problem as well. I have only built three or four pvc bows but have never had a problem with them (that is the bows I didn't screw up on). It is pretty easy to twist or bend the pipe in the wrong way, but to snap it, that's odd.


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## Reptiledude

Aronnax, I've built a few pvc bows as well. The only one that ever shattered was almost exactly like, but my mine was flattened way too much. The Backyardbowyer mentioned in a few of his videos that bows with to hard of a crease in the limb/handle transition could cause multiple types of breaking. Have you considered that? From what I read and in my experience, pvc bows are normally very tough. Just to illustrate, here's the links to a video of the backyardbowyer hitting one of his bows and then another video of him shooting the same bow after he hit it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LTbvGX_7hE

http://youtu.be/OkGK3EWHKMA 

All of the bows that I've had break were due to severe error on my part. That's what I've seen.


Reptiledude


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## Chooch1

I really like the Backyard Bowyers channel. Good stuff. I built his no heat PVC pipebow and have had a blast with it. For the $13 we spent buying the stuff we didn't have at the house, it was well worth it. It has a fiberglass leaf spring in the 3/4" pipe to keep it from busting. It still shoots good, no cracks or failures, just wisecracks from everyone how sees it shoot. Still no comparison to the new Axiom.


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## JB_1974

Mastervolume11 said:


> Love this one. What kind of wood or woods do you suggest for the Siyahs?


Oak, walnut, or even poplar are usually pretty good candidates, just remember to get wood that has a relatively straight grain, little to no runoff and you should be good to go


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## JB_1974

@ Mastervolume11


> I might try one of these with wood Siyahs. But I am not sure if the wood Siyahs actually have a performance advantage or if they are just more authentic looking.


As an answer to your above statement. Yes splicing wood siyahs into the body of the bow does have a marked performance advantage, for the simple fact that wood (even some of the heavier varieties) are quite a bit lighter than PVC (nearly twice the weight of oak and black walnut and 4.5x the weight of poplar) I personally have a Manchu style bow that a friend gave me as a gift that pulls 85# @28" with a reinforced handle/riser and poplar siyahs that shoots close to 170 fps... 

I made a similar bow (same dimensions and draw weight) with integrated siyahs and it only shoots in the high 140's to mid 150's as an example. So generally speaking, anything you do to lighten the tips/siyahs (i.e. using wood as opposed to pipe) of a bow will increase it's performance


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## JB_1974

@ GPW: You were wondering about using steam for flattening a bow's limbs? Well this guy has pretty much figured it out... And also made pretty good use of Spanish Windlass clamps


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## backdoc972

Hey folks, is anyone using pvc from Lowes and not having any problems? From what was stated above and I think somewhere earlier in this thread I am leary of using Lowes PVC. Having said that, I have Lowes within 10 minutes of my house and the nearest Home Depot is 40 minutes away. I'd like to try this and make a longbow to mess with and my son wants to try archery but doesn't have much money so I'd like to make him a bow. I don't want to use PVC that is brittle or likely to break, especially on a bow I'm going to have my kid use. Even though he is 23, he has had bad facial scarring from an auto accident 5 years ago and the last thing I want is to have a bow shatter on him.

So do you all think Lowes PVC is ok?


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## diamondarcher24

backdoc972 said:


> Hey folks, is anyone using pvc from Lowes and not having any problems? From what was stated above and I think somewhere earlier in this thread I am leary of using Lowes PVC. Having said that, I have Lowes within 10 minutes of my house and the nearest Home Depot is 40 minutes away. I'd like to try this and make a longbow to mess with and my son wants to try archery but doesn't have much money so I'd like to make him a bow. I don't want to use PVC that is brittle or likely to break, especially on a bow I'm going to have my kid use. Even though he is 23, he has had bad facial scarring from an auto accident 5 years ago and the last thing I want is to have a bow shatter on him.
> 
> So do you all think Lowes PVC is ok?


I've used Lowe's schedule 40 3/4 pvc for all my pvc bows and haven't had a problem yet. In my experience, when a pvc bow is overstressed it doesn't snap or explode into a million pieces. Usually it just collapses and folds over itself without breaking off any pieces


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## backdoc972

diamondarcher24 said:


> I've used Lowe's schedule 40 3/4 pvc for all my pvc bows and haven't had a problem yet. In my experience, when a pvc bow is overstressed it doesn't snap or explode into a million pieces. Usually it just collapses and folds over itself without breaking off any pieces


Thanks for the reply. I'll pop over to Lowe's at lunch tomorrow and pick some up. I'll check the dates to make sure its not too old, although I don't really know what too old is.


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## ryl4nd99

Anyone else failed at making any sort of PVC bow?
I've made three...well tried to, but every single one has collapsed after just stringing it. Anyone else? What am I doing wrong?

Sorry about the massive necropost...


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## Halfcawkt

Second time at the range with that bow started a bidding war. It was 1" pipe that pulled 47#@28". I took $90 dollars that day from a very nice young man. Seeing him some time later without the bow on several occasions I asked him about it. He said it was too much for him to handle, but looked amazing on his wall.


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## JasonJ

So I just started trying this out last night. Have a couple of sawhorses in the basement, wooden planks across, made a flattening jig with two adjustable carriage bolts, got some quick release clamps, heat gun, etc. 

When flattening the limbs, they twist... can't seem to find a sure-fire way to keep them straight. Heating up the limb to untwist it by hand results in the limb puffing back up a bit and then I can't quite get it to stay straight. 

Is it better to forego the use of the clamps and just use body pressure to flatten? How long are you guys flattening for? 30 seconds, a minute? I'd think you'd want to release the flattening pressure while it's still somewhat pliable so that you can adjust the limb if twisted. 

I really wanted to try this and some various styles of bow as a new archer, make some low-weight recurves to practice good form, work up my muscle strength to be able to pull more draw weight, etc.

Appreciate any tips you guys have.. I've watched probably half of BB's videos, and he makes it look so simple. And in concept, it is.


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## Ken Thorhill

Never seen the likes of that before. Interesting, but not for the faint of heart.


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## spartacus001

I'm LOVING this material. Here are the first two that I made.
Schedule 40, 3/4" 
My 2nd bow: Elven inspired & a Mongol horn bow for a friend. 
Both are 22# @ 28"


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## spartacus001

Quoted from Robert Emminger on Google+ 
A very experienced PVC Bow maker


Shared publicly - 10 Dec 2014
_Well, after a few years It's finally happened; I had a bow explode. It was a brand new bow from a batch of 20 (the rest of which are completely fine). It blew about 10% of the way through the draw, which wouldn't have been much as the bow was weighed initially @ 32# @ 28". The bow was 3/4" SCH40 52" NTN with Apoxie Sculpt finishing. It blew just above the handle and about 3" from the nock. Very clean breaks. Given that the rest are fine I believe this to have been a defective pipe. I've made 711 bows total from PVC and haven't burned one for more than a year. Especially since building the BowForge. _
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--m3wgSqEaLA/VIsf9yoD3uI/AAAAAAAAMHs/dOmrlHcBSxg/w2043-h1155-no/IMG_20141210_180439.jpg


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## JasonJ

Spartacus, very impressive bows for being number 1 and 2, respectively. Care to share equipment and techniques used? 

Very nice and smooth curves, especially the transition into the integrated siyah.


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## spartacus001

Thank you Jason,

I'm a hobbiest woodworker and general tinkerer and I don't have any special jigs nor equipment. 
I have a basic adjustable flattening board and an old B&D heat gun. I'll add a pic when I get home. 
The bends are and tillering are all by feel and sight.
*My learning tips: *
- Heat the pipe/limbs until they is soft & droopy this will allow the pipe to flatten consistently.
- Low heat setting is useful: 
A. To Bend the tips without uneveness and puffing up 
B. to pre-heat the thin sections preventing cracks and splits 
- for heavier draw weights form less aggressive tapers. i.e. Don't flatten to the point where the ends closes up. <- you can do this later. 
Limit the taper by adding a 2nd set of bolts to the Opposite end of your flattening board<- raising the end will prevent the ends from closing. 
- to create different draw weights: Experiment with different lengths, tapers and bends


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## JasonJ

Going ot try some more techniques tonight I think... my other concern was that I was starting with too long a piece of pipe, 62". Basically an uncut, as-bought piece. I am going to cut one down to about 58" tonight and try again with a little more patience and care. 

Best part about this, only $1.40 at Home Depot for a piece of piping. I can try things and screw it up all I like until I get it and not waste a super expensive piece of wood from a stave.


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## spartacus001

What draw weight are you looking at?
Are you planning to add wooden Siyhas?
My Mongol bow started with a 41" pipe and 11" (total length) wooden Siyahs. 

I had started on a 3rd build with a 60" pipe aiming for at least a 30# draw but I ended up with only a 25# draw. 
I realized hat the limbs were not storing nor releasing enough energy because they were too flat. 
I finally ended up with 35# but only after much tillering trial and error. 
This bow limb actually collapsed 2x because the limbs sections were too flat unable to support the draw. 
So I re-heated & repaired and despite having asymmetric and wavy limbs it shoots fantastic!
However, the asymmetry is do to the weakening the PVC with the multiple collapses and reheating.

*Lesson learned for next build: *
Flatten consistently on the 1st run
Shorter pipe for stronger pull
Reinforce the handle with a 1/2" insert


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## JasonJ

I want to aim for a 25#-35# pull. I _think_ my Browning compound is set to it's lowest weight at 55#, and it's realistically too much for me. I need to start low to work on proper form and drawing technique before yanking back on a heavy bow. 

My draw length is just a hair over 27". I was thinking for this pvc project, to start with something simple and light... I thought that a full length piece of pipe, regardless of what weight it came out to, would be a good test for the techniques and steps involved in making one of these bows. I was planning on a single piece recurve, no siyahs yet, to get the basics down. Then I'd get more and more complicated as I went along. Maybe with integrated pvc siyahs to start, then wooden ones, move on to curvy horsebows, snakey center-shot styles. etc. Experiment, play around.

I cut my pipe to 58" last night but didnt get around to heating and forming it yet.


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## spartacus001

Out of the box my 1st CMP bow was at 60# and I was unable to pull it back.
I've lowered it to 42# and I've slowly increased it to about 50# as specific muscles have strengthen. 
But wow... instinctive recurve shooting is a whole new ball of wax. 
58" is a good length to start with. You should get at least a min of 22# which will allow you to shoot all day.
Good luck. btw here's my basic set up


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## JasonJ

And here is mine. I used unused wooden tongue/groove flooring pieces, some harbor freight sawhorses and a spare piece of aluminum gutter for the heating trough. I've since lined the gutter trough with aluminum foil and moved the whole thing under more direct lighting in the basement.


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## spartacus001

*Nice*
Love the Gutter as the heat trough!


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## JasonJ

It works quite well too; even with just the cheap $8 Harbor Freight heat gun, pipe is bendy like a noodle in about 3 minutes. It channels a lot of hot air, so you need to make sure to wear some gloves when handling the pipe with the other hand, otherwise about 900 degrees of hot air will blast you. 

I will post pics of my successes (or failures) from this weekend's endeavors. May get a few more pieces of pvc to work with too.. only bought 3 to start. Bound and determined to get good at this! At least functionally good.


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## JasonJ

So i ran intro trouble tillering a 62" long pipe into a bow... might try to fix that later. So I cut one down to 58" and tried again, being more careful and taking some time to straighten the limbs as I flattened them. That worked out much better. 

Issue is, I think the bow needs more reflex/deflex in the limbs to create a proper recurve bow shape. As it is, this is set up like a longbow with recurved tips. It does shoot, and fast, but it feels sloppy. Brace height was only about 3-4", and it just didn't feel right. Limbs do bend fairly equally, so that is good. 

I do need to figure out cutting nocks however... my method is, haphazard at best. But at $1.40 per bow, I guess I can afford to make mistakes. Similarly, the handle feels too thin in my hand, so I may try a 1" pipe as well. 

Any suggestions on limb shaping/curving from this point?


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## spartacus001

Looks good. 
Add some deflex above and below the handle. 
Carefully re-heat ~5"-6" section above your grip and allow it to droop forward.
Repeat with a ~5"-6" section Below your grip.

I have a narrow cutting wheel on my bench grinder but if you have a narrow file you can cut the nocks in. 

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small26320409.JPG


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## socalserf

I just recently got my first bow, which was thirty something buck plus shipping from Ebay.
Found out about PVC bows from the Backyardbowyer and want to make my own, but wanted a solid bench mark made by someone with experience.
Especially since I have no back ground in archery besides reading books.

Also got some very good quality cedar arrows($$$) that are correctly splined and cut to length by a pro, same reason as above.

I won't be winning any contests in this decade, but I'm pretty happy with my set up.
And now off to Lowes for some 3/4" schedule 40 pvc pipe!

Hello to everyone.


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## GPW

Odd you guys are breaking bows .... Could be the pipe itself .... Some manufacturers aren’t as quality oriented as others ... 
We’ve yet to break one , and we’re still playing with the odd ball Asymetrical designs ... 

I know we mentioned this long ago , but has anyone tried boiling water to soften the pipe ??? .... That way you woudn’t be over heating it with a HOT 800 deg. heat gun .... The 212 deg water should be plenty enough to soften the pipe ...


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## Mellowfellow

GPW said:


> Update: The transition into the handle ...


This is very helpful, thanks GPW


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## Mellowfellow

Does one need a jig to make the shape ? Does the pipe need to be completely flat, or is there some profile which is optimal ?


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## GPW

Mell, Not really , but a simple board tapering jig could be handy ... Our fun bow isn’t tapered at all ... Just bent ... Works super !!! Oxblood shoe dye finish , simple leather wrap on handle ...


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