# ASA rule changes



## Double B (Feb 20, 2007)

Since the schedule is already out for next year when will they announce the rule changes if any. Heard some rumors just waiting to see if there true


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## Dabo72 (Jul 1, 2008)

Double B said:


> Since the schedule is already out for next year when will they announce the rule changes if any. Heard some rumors just waiting to see if there true


does one of them regard arrow diameter?


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## Double B (Feb 20, 2007)

Not that but some class changes going back to all Unknown and making a new known class


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## fz1 (Oct 15, 2011)

Double B said:


> Not that but some class changes going back to all Unknown and making a new known class


sounds good to me


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Double B said:


> Since the schedule is already out for next year when will they announce the rule changes if any. Heard some rumors just waiting to see if there true


That's a little later...usually around oct


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Double B said:


> Not that but some class changes going back to all Unknown and making a new known class


I hope they bust Open C up. K40 and Open C all unkown and Open B all unkown.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

sagecreek said:


> I hope they bust Open C up. K40 and Open C all unkown and Open B all unkown.


I understand where you are coming from but......... I expect having no half and half classes would quicken the death of unknown distance 3D in the ASA. An even higher percentage of beginning 3D'ers would never experience yardage judging at national tournaments and consequently they would lean toward going to K45 rather than Open B. I know a couple of guys that shot out of Open C and Bow Novice that are leaning toward K45 for next year rather than Hunter or Open B.

I could see where making Open C half/half could help keep the yardage guessing classes healthy for the near future at least.


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## Double B (Feb 20, 2007)

sagecreek said:


> I hope they bust Open C up. K40 and Open C all unkown and Open B all unkown.


That's what I was hearing


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

Have not heard that about open c...but started hearing the chatter about open b in cullman. And it continued at the classic so I guess we will just have to stay tuned and wait for mike to tell us


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> I understand where you are coming from but......... I expect having no half and half classes would quicken the death of unknown distance 3D in the ASA. An even higher percentage of beginning 3D'ers would never experience yardage judging at national tournaments and consequently they would lean toward going to K45 rather than Open B. I know a couple of guys that shot out of Open C and Bow Novice that are leaning toward K45 for next year rather than Hunter or Open B.
> 
> I could see where making Open C half/half could help keep the yardage guessing classes healthy for the near future at least.


That souls good. .....make the k classes for more fun less competitive ...but I'm going back to where I had more fun....those that know me ...know where that is


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Ive said this before - they can get rid of the half/half class to me. Or keep it as an exisiting one for all I care.

Unknown 40, Unknown 45, and unknown 50 (you can either keep Open A separate, or combine for all I care, the class is big enough to keep separate and add Semi to this list as well)

Known 40, Known 45, and Known 50 for open classes (can have separate womens/seniors etc)

But make it easy to move across the aisle if need be, if you want to shoot Known 45 the first few shoots because you are under snow and can practice judging, then move to unknown 45 make the process seamless. You give up SOY opportunity etc.....

Open B is a HUGE class, would those people fall somewhere? I bet they would - some would go known, some would go unknown in the appropriate distance for their abilities.

Having shot a few known classes this year - I didn't enjoy it as much. It would take a whole different mindset than I currently have - part of the game I get it.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

All of the Open B guys I've talked to wish it were straight unknown. I think they would shoot K45 if they liked known. They are just being forced to shoot half known.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

sagecreek said:


> All of the Open B guys I've talked to wish it were straight unknown. I think they would shoot K45 if they liked known. They are just being forced to shoot half known.


That's all I have ever heard as well.....but I am sure someone out there likes half and half and will mount an argument for it. Heck K45 and Open B often shoot the exact same course on known days.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Garceau said:


> That's all I have ever heard as well.....but I am sure someone out there likes half and half and will mount an argument for it. Heck K45 and Open B often shoot the exact same course on known days.


 just speaking. ...I have hater it from the get go. ....but oh well....


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

sagecreek said:


> All of the Open B guys I've talked to wish it were straight unknown. I think they would shoot K45 if they liked known. They are just being forced to shoot half known.


I am an open b guy and you are correct I had rather judge /guess yardage and many feel the same if open b goes to unk45 I think I he majority will stay but some will go to a known class.I kinda think combining a and semi would not be a bad idea its the same class entry fees are a lil more.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

I heard a couple of guys talking at the Classic. They said due to the growth this year the ASA was thinking about not having a practice range next year. Instead of 40 practice targets they would use the space for more competitive ranges. To compensation for more practice another 10 target Sims range would be set.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

No practice range would TOTALLY suck,but the bags are a wast of time to me.


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## slammin12 (Jan 11, 2014)

no telling how much money ASA gets from the practice range...i signed up for the whole year and shot a total of 10 targets for the year...


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## 3dbowmaster (Sep 16, 2005)

I had never thought about it but Open A and Semi Pro are essentially the same so why not combine the two and maybe meet in the middle for entry fees. Would that free up any ranges?


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

I say combine open A and semi myself and make it a 90$ entry fee. You'd have over a 100 in that class. 

I don't agree with getting rid of practice range though


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

3dbowmaster said:


> I had never thought about it but Open A and Semi Pro are essentially the same so why not combine the two and maybe meet in the middle for entry fees. Would that free up any ranges?


No it wouldnt


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

Garceau said:


> No it wouldnt


Kevin, you shooting known or unknown next year ??


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Huntin Hard said:


> Kevin, you shooting known or unknown next year ??


Unknown is my plan. I didn't enjoy k45 like I thought I would.


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

Garceau said:


> Unknown is my plan. I didn't enjoy k45 like I thought I would.


Going back to open A?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Will see what if any changes make. I'd like to be in a class that's all judging. So what ever that is.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Im preaching what kevins saying...all known. And all unknown.
Most guys i know in B much prefer to judge and B is just the next step in there progress...i dont think many would complain about B going all know.

Now..

I cant judge yardage worth a lick... (seriously...im really really bad)

BUT

If open C went all unknow....i would try, heck yes!! And if its really THAT bad i can straight back into "k40" if that whole thing happened...


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

There's been quite a few senior shooters that have moved into Senior Known. But it is for seniors 50 and over which means for the really senior (geezers) shooters they either have to stay in the unknown classes or go head to head with guys much younger. 

I know, for most folks 50 is considered kind of old...but believe me, my eyes and reflexes were a lot sharper at 50 than they were at 60 and they were a lot sharper at 60 than they were at 70.

Seniors represent a small slice of the ASA pie and we don't expect to be catered to as a "special" group....but some of us would still like the opportunity to compete in a known class geared more to our age group. I'd say due to our small numbers there wouldn't be a spot on the schedule or ranges though, where they could fit another new class in.

I do like what ASA is doing to expand the options for the majority of its members regarding shooting known and unknown yardages...proves they listen to the customers.


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## bill_collector (Jul 5, 2009)

I shot hunter class all year and there was talk at the classic about them doing away with unlimited and combining them with hunter class. They also said that the hunter class would be a 45 yard max. I wish they would make open B all unknown. Judging yardage is one of the best parts to me. I have made plans to move straight into open A next year and take my beating but if they made B all unknown thats where I'd go.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

bill_collector said:


> I shot hunter class all year and there was talk at the classic about them doing away with unlimited and combining them with hunter class. They also said that the hunter class would be a 45 yard max. I wish they would make open B all unknown. Judging yardage is one of the best parts to me. I have made plans to move straight into open A next year and take my beating but if they made B all unknown thats where I'd go.[/QUOTE
> 
> Unlimited wont.go away...it's a top pin class....


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> bill_collector said:
> 
> 
> > I shot hunter class all year and there was talk at the classic about them doing away with unlimited and combining them with hunter class. They also said that the hunter class would be a 45 yard max. I wish they would make open B all unknown. Judging yardage is one of the best parts to me. I have made plans to move straight into open A next year and take my beating but if they made B all unknown thats where I'd go.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

I don't remember....Go back a few years. A few State Sanctioned classes were half and half. At the National level was there a change or not? Okay, Super Senior is all unknown. Then the State imposed rule has Super Senior go all unknown. The Rule was there, "will be" half and half. Whether it was me or a bunch of us that complained the Federation rule was changed to all unknown. Open C was half and half and then made all known. It would seem half and half at 40 yards would a step situation for those moving to Open B at 45 yards.....

Okay, BS to some degree. Of all the clubs around me, some 14 ASA clubs within a hours drive of my home, only one goes by ASA rules and limits distance to 40 yards. Go to any other club and 50 and 60 yards is a real reality. So all ASA people are shooting way longer distance than their normal ASA class. Bow Novice 30 yards and shooting maybe twice that.... 
Just this weekend I spoke with the President of one ASA club and I'm a member of the club. Large deer targets have been set to 50 yards for the past 4 to 5 years. Now, where the rule changed, but 45 yards was in the Minutes for maximum. I know because I was Secretary then. Now, this weekend, the new Rinehart Moose was said set even longer. Yes, way bigger target and perhaps a longer distance...I don't know...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> That souls good. .....make the k classes for more fun less competitive ...but I'm going back to where I had more fun....those that know me ...know where that is


Golf?



sagecreek said:


> All of the Open B guys I've talked to wish it were straight unknown. I think they would shoot K45 if they liked known. They are just being forced to shoot half known.


I'm sure it isn't because the young man that completely blew up Open B completely creamed them on the Known half. A LOT of 3d'ers cant stand the Known courses because it seriously exposes that their less than stellar scores aren't all because they occasionally misjudge the yardage but also partly because they aren't that good of a shot. The Known course also exposes when an archer struggles mentally. Anyone that shoots lower on the known half than the unknown half has some serious issues with their "head" game. That's not easy for many of us to accept. It's not easy for anyone to accept.............. If more Open B archers worked on their shot during the winter so that they were more confident and competitive on the Known half their scores would also go up on the Unknown half by a good bit.



BubbaDean1 said:


> I heard a couple of guys talking at the Classic. They said due to the growth this year the ASA was thinking about not having a practice range next year. Instead of 40 practice targets they would use the space for more competitive ranges. To compensation for more practice another 10 target Sims range would be set.


I would be _extraordinarily_ surprised if the ASA did away with the practice ranges! They would lose a lot of money and the practice ranges are an important part of teh weekend to many of us. Sometimes they are more important than others.



3dbowmaster said:


> I had never thought about it but Open A and Semi Pro are essentially the same so why not combine the two and maybe meet in the middle for entry fees. Would that free up any ranges?


No, it would not since you would still have the same number of archers. Currently semi-pro and Open A shoot the same ranges and often shoot together as it is. Semi-Pro is supposed to be a step up and not just another name for the same "class".


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> Golf?
> 
> I would be _extraordinarily_ surprised if the ASA did away with the practice ranges! They would lose a lot of money and the practice ranges are an important part of teh weekend to many of us. Sometimes they are more important than others.


I'd guess that there's quite a few who shoot the practice range but don't pay to do so. Done it myself when there was no one at the table. So I'm not sure how much money comes in off the practice range compared to the number of people who shoot it.

I've seen any number of people shooting the SIMMs range at the end of the day after the staff has left the table.

I'm not sure what any of that means....


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

If you think that Jeremy Elliot the young man and up and coming pro that blew up open b this year did all his damage on the known half day you could not be further from the truth.at the classic he shot the same score of 22 up each day.and I assure you with utmost certainty that are some very good shooters that compete in open b


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

carlosii said:


> I'd guess that there's quite a few who shoot the practice range but don't pay to do so. Done it myself when there was no one at the table. So I'm not sure how much money comes in off the practice range compared to the number of people who shoot it.
> 
> I've seen any number of people shooting the SIMMs range at the end of the day after the staff has left the table.
> 
> I'm not sure what any of that means....


When the tent people send out the last group they leave. You then turn your card it at the trailer when finished. That's some of the evening shooting on the Simms.


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## blade37defender (Jun 8, 2005)

I believe this format would be simple enough...

Half/Half 40 yard max for the beginning shooters. After that, the shooter can choose to take a known or unknown path with 45 max being the next progression and then a 50 yard max following that. That would essentially combine the Open A and Semi-Pro, but it would treat shooters no different than that of the known yardage tract. Make entry fees $30-40 for the Half/Half, $60-75 for the 45 classes, and $125 for the 50 classes.


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## D.Short (Aug 5, 2010)

Above format sound perfect,also make bow novice a 1 and done ,then pick a path,hunter,known open or unknown open. All with a progression in max yardage as they move up,can the unlimited class,as it is worthless,and have 1 disability class.


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## NC8point (Oct 5, 2012)

blade37defender said:


> I believe this format would be simple enough...
> 
> Half/Half 40 yard max for the beginning shooters. After that, the shooter can choose to take a known or unknown path with 45 max being the next progression and then a 50 yard max following that. That would essentially combine the Open A and Semi-Pro, but it would treat shooters no different than that of the known yardage tract. Make entry fees $30-40 for the Half/Half, $60-75 for the 45 classes, and $125 for the 50 classes.


This^^^^. Exactly what I was thinking. With all of the bad mouthing of both unknown and known classes, this would let everyone have to choice. They would know which one, known or unknown, (we as archers need both) they would most excel at. Not sure why anyone would want to bad mouth either class or why we should care what each one of us shoots as long as we are shooting. I shoot unknown and my son shot known up until this year then he weng to unknown. Known helped him on being able to hold on spot and now he is working on yardage. Archery needs all of our talents to keep our sport alive in the future


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

ar1220 said:


> If you think that Jeremy Elliot the young man and up and coming pro that blew up open b this year did all his damage on the known half day you could not be further from the truth.at the classic he shot the same score of 22 up each day.and I assure you with utmost certainty that are some very good shooters that compete in open b


I know exactly what Jeremy shot each day at the Classic and each day at most all the other tournaments as well. Being that I was at every tournament except Texas this year I looked at each class standings each day. I traveled with and know one of the guys that did well in Open B this year. He never made the podium but he won out none the less. I half expect the young gun Elliot to shoot K50 next year. 

I keep up with what is going on in most of the non-novice classes and am perfectly aware of the kinds of scores being shot in each. Open B has always been a class with quite a few _very _good archers. The very BEST 3D'ers in every class are _VERY _good pure shooters. Even in Open Pro the better ones are excellent spot shooters. I'd put Levi, Chance and Dan up against the best "pure" spot shooters and they would at least hold their own as they've proven at Vegas many times.

The guys in Open B that think being able to shoot VERY good isn't nearly as important as yardage guessing leave a lot of points on the course.


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## NateUK (Dec 4, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> I know exactly what Jeremy shot each day at the Classic and each day at most all the other tournaments as well. Being that I was at every tournament except Texas this year I looked at each class standings each day. I traveled with and know one of the guys that did well in Open B this year. He never made the podium but he won out none the less. I half expect the young gun Elliot to shoot K50 next year.
> 
> I keep up with what is going on in most of the non-novice classes and am perfectly aware of the kinds of scores being shot in each. Open B has always been a class with quite a few _very _good archers. The very BEST 3D'ers in every class are _VERY _good pure shooters. Even in Open Pro the better ones are excellent spot shooters. I'd put Levi, Chance and Dan up against the best "pure" spot shooters and they would at least hold their own as they've proven at Vegas many times.
> 
> The guys in Open B that think being able to shoot VERY good isn't nearly as important as yardage guessing leave a lot of points on the course.



But the fact is that Jeremy didn't just completely dominate on the known half. He dominated on both known and unknown, quite equally. If he shoots K50 next year, I'd be very surprised.


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## Huntin Hard (Aug 8, 2011)

NateUK said:


> But the fact is that Jeremy didn't just completely dominate on the known half. He dominated on both known and unknown, quite equally. If he shoots K50 next year, I'd be very surprised.


I would be very surprised myself too. I would've thought he would go to k45 if he wanted to shoot all known instead of open B the past year.


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## Itsderekcarter (Dec 22, 2014)

I wonder if the move up money limitations will be changed based on there only being 6 tournaments instead of 7


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

NateUK said:


> But the fact is that Jeremy didn't just completely dominate on the known half. He dominated on both known and unknown, quite equally. If he shoots K50 next year, I'd be very surprised.





Huntin Hard said:


> I would be very surprised myself too. I would've thought he would go to k45 if he wanted to shoot all known instead of open B the past year.


_*IF*_ I had Jeremy's talent I would go to either Semi-Pro, Open A or possibly Open Pro but that is me. A young person has a lot going on or _should _have a lot going on. Competing in K50 or Open A would require less commitment to maintain a competitive level. Consequently he'll have more time for other important activities.

It would have been a real shame for him to have shot K45 this year because now he'd most likely be locked into K50 for next year. As it is he continued his growth this year in both known and unknown distance 3D. He now should be confident that he can be competitive in anything from Semi-Pro to K50.

It's a whole lot easier to maintain a competitive level when moving from an unknown distance class (Semi-pro, Open A) to a known distance class (K50) than it is to go the other way. If he had shot K45 this year he would now be well behind the better Open A guys.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Itsderekcarter said:


> I wonder if the move up money limitations will be changed based on there only being 6 tournaments instead of 7


Mike T. says on the ASA forum that they are looking to go back to 7 tournaments next year. I wouldn't rewrite the book for a single season. I don't think it's necessary to lower the "move up" rules any way. The best in each class "win out" in 6 tournaments or less anyway. The standards for a required move up are fairly low as it is.


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## wsbark01 (Feb 26, 2009)

Kstigall said:


> Mike T. says on the ASA forum that they are looking to go back to 7 tournaments next year. I wouldn't rewrite the book for a single season. I don't think it's necessary to lower the "move up" rules any way. The best in each class "win out" in 6 tournaments or less anyway. The standards for a required move up are fairly low as it is.


What about SOY? It was 4 plus the classic this year for all amateur classes. With one less shoot will the change it to 3 and the classic?


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## Itsderekcarter (Dec 22, 2014)

wsbark01 said:


> What about SOY? It was 4 plus the classic this year for all amateur classes. With one less shoot will the change it to 3 and the classic?


I doubt it, it's setup that way to keep people coming but not so strictly that everyone isn't in competition for it, Asa will be losing money with only 6 tournaments. Can't see them taking the risk of less people attending.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To me there is one thing that could really help grow ASA as a tournament and ASA shooters, when I walk onto these tournaments we seem to walk past lots of areas along the roads where there could be extra ranges but we just keep walking and walking past it to get to our actual courses. 

So:

Get more lanes cut on new ranges and this way each class on saturday morning has its own range to shoot on instead of having to share with another class overloading the range to the max. Now this way if a class is a really big one then let half of them shoot in the morning on saturday and half later in the day on saturday and that night split up the groups into a sunday morning group and a sunday afternoon group. The sunday morning half is where your podium guys are going to come from anyway and this won't hurt running the presentation after the morning session is finished and the afternoon guys can shoot and then leave. This would only have to be done on the really really big groups such as known 45 and open b type classes. 

Now, with the extra ranges this would produce ASA needs to realize that to really produce strong shooters from the amateur ranks we need ranges that are affordable. So bite the bullet a little and find a way to sell these ranges at a lower cost so that we can get them in our yards and shoot them. 

Why not? Why couldn't your class if it is so big and you break it up on sunday into a morning group and a afternoon group the afternoon group was given 100, 75, and 50 dollars to the top three finishers as something to shoot for in that second group. I notice in every class there are the top dogs who grace the top 10 and podium and there are the other guys that love shooting and just find themselves in the middle or bottom half. This would be a nice little incentive for them on that second day in a class that is huge like open b for them to have something to shoot for. It would just be sent in the mail and not something that ASA had to present as a podium thing because it isn't but at the same time good for the class.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't like the decision they have made where some classes have to shoot their entire shoot on saturday and that is why I thought of the option I wrote above, to me the whole asa experience is about practicing on friday and the team shoot then showing up and getting on the practice 3d range on saturday morning until it is time for a burger before you head to the range at noon on saturday. Then on sunday you have to show up in the dark and walk down to the range and be firing on all 8 cylinders from the first shot with no real warm up if any. To me this is a asa weekend and the weekend I have grown to enjoy.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

In a huge class if I didn't make the top half and had to shoot on the range in the second group it would suck but if I had some money to try and win it would be cool and something to try and win. 100 bucks would pay for my entry fees or motel and would be totally sweet especially when it was a release misfire that cost me a zero and caused me to be down there in the first place when I was shooting really good.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

More ranges means more of everything not just targets. More employees are needed to set courses and be range officials. More time and _real estate_ is needed. More of everything means reduced profits unless there is a corresponding increase in participation. More archers means more registration folks, more SIMS ranges with corresponding staff support, more practice ranges and more practice bags.....

The big deal is........ At some point you out grow your model and have to develop accurate changes to maintain the quality of the product.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Kstigall, you are right.

I watch these sports on tv that have a good viewer base that are sponsored by red bull or some company and wish that our sport had that kind of appeal. It just seems like our viewer base is so limited to the shooters themselves that it would be hard to get one of them to latch on and get us up and running.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Padgett said:


> Kstigall, you are right.
> 
> I watch these sports on tv that have a good viewer base that are sponsored by red bull or some company and wish that our sport had that kind of appeal. It just seems like our viewer base is so limited to the shooters themselves that it would be hard to get one of them to latch on and get us up and running.


One of the ESPN channels had a corn hole tournament on the other day...and I was feeling bad because we ignored while they show poker players.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Kstigall said:


> More ranges means more of everything not just targets. More employees are needed to set courses and be range officials. More time and _real estate_ is needed. More of everything means reduced profits unless there is a corresponding increase in participation. More archers means more registration folks, more SIMS ranges with corresponding staff support, more practice ranges and more practice bags.....
> 
> The big deal is........ At some point you out grow your model and have to develop accurate changes to maintain the quality of the product.


Another option would be to establish another "working group" to expand into other areas....oh yeah...that's been tried...flop.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

how about you have to make a cut, just like golf. don't make the cut you go home or shoot the simms or go watch other classes.


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## Itsderekcarter (Dec 22, 2014)

jimb said:


> how about you have to make a cut, just like golf. don't make the cut you go home or shoot the simms or go watch other classes.


This has always been my favorite idea.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

jimb said:


> how about you have to make a cut, just like golf. don't make the cut you go home or shoot the simms or go watch other classes.


With what it costs to travel and attend the pro ams I want to shoot everything on the menu.


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## BubbaDean1 (Dec 20, 2014)

Just remember ESPN= Extra Stupid Programming Nightly


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

All of the above ideas are great BUT something very fundamental is missing and it is HUGE.

- With the exception of the 5-6 target shootoff at the end there is NO where for the _currently interested _audience to watch the Pro's perform! Yet folks are talking about making it bigger by appealing to a larger audience! Until things change dramatically that is ridiculous to even consider. TV? Seriously? How about developing a local grass roots audience first!

Where to start? It's been started and done already. How many people were in the Columbus coliseum to watch the Classic shootoff? I don't know the number but it was a LOT compared to any other 3D event audience.

No I am NOT saying all shootoffs should be in a coliseum........yet. The "audience" needs access to the tournament ranges and the free time so they can watch the players in action on the ranges!

Sooooo..........
*1. * Have the Pro's competing when the large majority of tournament participants can watch. Yes, start times would need to be shuffled and the focus should be on making more folks available to watch and not on "when do the Pro's WANT to shoot".
*2.* Have viewing areas on the Pro ranges where an interested person (at first it will mostly be other archers at the tournament, parents, locals and friends) can stand and watch at least a few targets at once. This also means they can watch multiple groups at once.
*3.* Make the Pro ranges real close to the main venue! Remember we want people to watch them perform and to have a favorite AND least favorite competitor. I know why the Pro ranges are the furthest away and the reason is absolutely WRONG! If a 3D "Pro" can't tolerate an audience then he or she isn't an advanced archer let alone a Pro!

I am not saying it's easy and simple to do. I am absolutely sure some folks and quite likely many will scream and holler about how "stupid" I am and my ideas. I know this because I started in the technology field in the very early '80's and every time we made a great improvement there were those that cried that it was a bad idea. I heard all kinds of foolish statements like, "that's not the way we've always done it and I'm not changing", "I want written bids" even for a menial amount and the always amusing "I don't care, I want a paper copy to file". Yes, a lot of supposedly "smart" people insisted on not using computers.


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

If golf can be covered on tv so can archery. That said most courses are a bit tight and dark for tv especially on the morning. However setting up the pro' s to shot on a open area like a golf cours or a good field archery course would be the way to go. As for open C and other large classes definitely incorparate a cut system, but make the 1st day 30 targets. This does two things, 10 more targets spreads out the archers more (30 targets x 5 archers = 150 archers) that would speed up the process in itself not having groups of 7 and 8 shooters. Plus 30 targets gives enough targets to shoot at for the less capapble shooters to get experience shooting and worth the cost of participating. Just my two cents.


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## BowHuntnKY (Dec 10, 2008)

Kstigall said:


> All of the above ideas are great BUT something very fundamental is missing and it is HUGE.
> 
> - With the exception of the 5-6 target shootoff at the end there is NO where for the _currently interested _audience to watch the Pro's perform! Yet folks are talking about making it bigger by appealing to a larger audience! Until things change dramatically that is ridiculous to even consider. TV? Seriously? How about developing a local grass roots audience first!
> 
> ...


I would attribute the larger shootoff crowd to it being on saturday and not sunday...

And i agree with the pro.ranges..i only attend london and metropolis and london is a 2 miles hike..and metropolis its so far its alomst to another state park, you have to take a shuttle. Lol


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

vito9999 said:


> If golf can be covered on tv so can archery. That said most courses are a bit tight and dark for tv especially on the morning. However setting up the pro' s to shot on a open area like a golf cours or a good field archery course would be the way to go. As for open C and other large classes definitely incorparate a cut system, but make the 1st day 30 targets. This does two things, 10 more targets spreads out the archers more (30 targets x 5 archers = 150 archers) that would speed up the process in itself not having groups of 7 and 8 shooters. Plus 30 targets gives enough targets to shoot at for the less capapble shooters to get experience shooting and worth the cost of participating. Just my two cents.


Golf appeals to, draws, and gets ratings from vast numbers of folks with large amounts of disposable income, business professionals, and business executives.....

Archery appeals to??????? How much money would advertisers sink into a product that on a good night would draw....100,000 viewers? Let's go crazy and say 1,000,000 viewers, which in national numbers isn't enough to keep the program on the air. Quite a bit of programming on the air is paid programming paid by the producers of the programs.



BowHuntnKY said:


> I would attribute the larger shootoff crowd to it being on saturday and not sunday...
> 
> And i agree with the pro.ranges..i only attend london and metropolis and london is a 2 miles hike..and metropolis its so far its alomst to another state park, you have to take a shuttle. Lol


Besides, what else is there to do in Columbus, GA on a Saturday night!!!!!!!!!!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

reylamb said:


> Golf appeals to, draws, and gets ratings from vast numbers of folks with large amounts of disposable income, business professionals, and business executives.....
> 
> Archery appeals to??????? How much money would advertisers sink into a product that on a good night would draw....100,000 viewers? Let's go crazy and say 1,000,000 viewers, which in national numbers isn't enough to keep the program on the air. Quite a bit of programming on the air is paid programming paid by the producers of the programs.
> 
> ...


The girls on victory Dr could answer that for you.....lol


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

reylamb said:


> Golf appeals to, draws, and gets ratings from vast numbers of folks with large amounts of disposable income, business professionals, and business executives.....
> 
> Archery appeals to??????? How much money would advertisers sink into a product that on a good night would draw....100,000 viewers? Let's go crazy and say 1,000,000 viewers, which in national numbers isn't enough to keep the program on the air. Quite a bit of programming on the air is paid programming paid by the producers of the programs.
> 
> ...


Some good eatin' spots.


By the way, I like the "thinking outside the box" that's going on here.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

bhtr3d said:


> The girls on victory Dr could answer that for you.....lol


Easy now!!!!!!!! Oh wait...probably wrong choice of words!!!!!!!!!


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

So if I go to victory dr do I look at known women or unknown not sure which class. Bet they have a half special.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

2016 Rules are up. No major changes for adults.


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## Itsderekcarter (Dec 22, 2014)

tmorelli said:


> 2016 Rules are up. No major changes for adults.


Was really hoping I could wear my flip flops next year


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Itsderekcarter said:


> Was really hoping I could wear my flip flops next year


You can. I won't protest you unless I stand to gain from it.


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## Itsderekcarter (Dec 22, 2014)

tmorelli said:


> 2016 Rules are up. No major changes for adults.


Some shooter of the year rule changes for everyone below semipro and k50. 

Everything below that counts 3 and the classic. The rest are 4 and the classic, including the pros.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Itsderekcarter said:


> Some shooter of the year rule changes for everyone below semipro and k50.
> 
> Everything below that counts 3 and the classic. The rest are 4 and the classic, including the pros.


I'm thinking that is for next year only, due to the 6 event schedule? Hopefully anyway.... IMO, the SOY is the best without drops.... But ASA SOY is about maintaining attendance late in the year, not necessarily crowning what I think is the best shooter. JMHO.


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## Itsderekcarter (Dec 22, 2014)

tmorelli said:


> I'm thinking that is for next year only, due to the 6 event schedule? Hopefully anyway.... IMO, the SOY is the best without drops.... But ASA SOY is about maintaining attendance late in the year, not necessarily crowning what I think is the best shooter. JMHO.


True, before I came back it was one drop, which was reasonable. There's a fine line between a shooter of the year and an attendance contest. I really liked one drop score.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

New rules are all about the kids.

No Super Senior Known...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> New rules are all about the kids.
> 
> No Super Senior Known...


I got some feed back on why this class was not created. There was an in depth analysis done and this is what was found, please pay special attention to 7 - 9:

*1.* On each target one third of "Super" Seniors would forget to use their rangefinder or to look at the sheet.
*2.* On each target one third would forget to set their sights after ranging the target.
*3*. On each target one third would forget they don't have to judge the distance. The other 2/3's won't notice him standing there trying to guess the yardage. 
*4.* On each target one third of the archers will argue and disagree with their range finder. So they guesstimate the yardage.
*5*. Overall one third will feel rushed because they'll be required to finish quicker.
*6. *Two thirds of the "Super" Seniors that try Known distance will go back to shooting unknown once they realize 50% of their reasons for not shooting 40 up are no longer valid. I should say their excuses are no longer arguable since they have never been valid.
*7. *21.23% of the "Supers" will leave their range finders at home. Consequently they'll have to get the yardage from their group. After missing the 12 fights break out because the shooter believes the only way he could miss is if everyone in the group conspired to give him the wrong yardage.
*8. *Word gets around and people from all over the area pack the "Supers" range to watch them fight. The congested ranges causes some "Supers" to get "range rage"! Causing the ASA's insurance premiums to soar causing the ASA to fold within 13 months
*9.* Current ASA members stop competing to watch and wager on the fights.
*10. *By the time the Classic rolls around there aren't enough healthy Supers left to give out 3 places.......


To summarize:
It was decided that a Super Senior Known class would ultimately lead to the collapse of the ASA after a single season....... However, Mike T. makes out great when he shows the UFC that a "Super Senior" division will pack the stadiums. The former ASA Super Seniors dominate the class while making millions for years.......or a few depending on how long they live.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> I'm thinking that is for next year only, due to the 6 event schedule? Hopefully anyway.... IMO, the SOY is the best without drops.... But ASA SOY is about maintaining attendance late in the year, not necessarily crowning what I think is the best shooter. JMHO.


That was absolutely the case this year in the highest level male _amateur _class. :becky:


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> That was absolutely the case this year in the highest level male _amateur _class. :becky:



Yep


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

kstigall said:


> i got some feed back on why this class was not created. There was an in depth analysis done and this is what was found, please pay special attention to 7 - 9:
> 
> *1.* on each target one third of "super" seniors would forget to use their rangefinder or to look at the sheet.
> *2.* on each target one third would forget to set their sights after ranging the target.
> ...


lol!!


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## CarbonExtreme (Jul 7, 2010)

^ Funny as hell


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

kstigall said:


> i got some feed back on why this class was not created. There was an in depth analysis done and this is what was found, please pay special attention to 7 - 9:
> 
> *1.* on each target one third of "super" seniors would forget to use their rangefinder or to look at the sheet.
> *2.* on each target one third would forget to set their sights after ranging the target.
> ...


roflmao!


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, just so you'll know ahead of time Mr. Smarty Pants Stigall, there's a whole gaggle of geezers planning on invading Senior Known next year, since they didn't get a class of there own 

So, you can expect all of your predictions to come true....but they'll be comin' true on a range near you! In fact, I'm gonna ask MIke T to put me on your stake at every pro am next year!

Geezer Nation is comin' and they're gonna have their game face on....are you ready for that???


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

You got a few months to go.....a lot can change


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> You got a few months to go.....a lot can change


Oh Tim, you big tease you.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

carlosii said:


> Well, just so you'll know ahead of time Mr. Smarty Pants Stigall, there's a whole gaggle of geezers planning on invading Senior Known next year, since they didn't get a class of there own
> 
> So, you can expect all of your predictions to come true....but they'll be comin' true on a range near you! In fact, I'm gonna ask MIke T to put me on your stake at every pro am next year!
> 
> Geezer Nation is comin' and they're gonna have their game face on....are you ready for that???


Better make it a gaggle and half. According to a recent study........ 25.79% of all Supers will be in Newberry, FL instead of Foley, Ala for the first ASA tourney. 

Don't even try to sneak up on me. I got new ears last night!
It's a long drive to Foley and with all the pee breaks you guys take ya'll best leave for Foley, or Newberry, around February 1.......


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