# Pro Hunter Class in IBO



## [email protected]

I read on Archery Wire that the IBO will add two new classes for 2015. 
Pro Hunter Class will have a $145 entry fee and be 45 yds max. 
I didn't see anything about equipment requirements.


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## rohpenguins

[email protected] said:


> I read on Archery Wire that the IBO will add two new classes for 2015.
> Pro Hunter Class will have a $145 entry fee and be 45 yds max.
> I didn't see anything about equipment requirements.


same as HC and AHC


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## Kstigall

I don't see PHC ever amounting to much. Sure some manufacturers may promote it initially but ultimately it becomes irrelevant........ just like the rest of the IBO.

I fully expect there will be a "splash" with big names flying around and manufacturers throwing money at folks but I just don't understand how making a "Pro Hunter" division is going to grow the IBO. If there is a decent amount of money in the class all that is going to happen is the other "Pro" divisions will become diluted. 

The IBO says they are not about "target" archery but then they turn around and make another "Pro" division. Pro classes are ALL about target archery! Making money shooting targets in no way shape or form has anything to do with hunting.


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## rohpenguins

Kstigall said:


> I don't see PHC ever amounting to much. Sure some manufacturers may promote it initially but ultimately it becomes irrelevant........ just like the rest of the IBO.
> 
> I fully expect there will be a "splash" with big names flying around and manufacturers throwing money at folks but I just don't understand how making a "Pro Hunter" division is going to grow the IBO. If there is a decent amount of money in the class all that is going to happen is the other "Pro" divisions will become diluted.
> 
> The IBO says they are not about "target" archery but then they turn around and make another "Pro" division. Pro classes are ALL about target archery! Making money shooting targets in no way shape or form has anything to do with hunting.


I can't see the big names shooting that class unless there is more $$$ in it for them. I can see a splash of HC and AHC shooting it just so they can call themselves pro's. I don't see the point other than to make the other classes smaller. Your top MBR shooters will mostly make a jump. Next years thread will read its not fair that " enter a known pros name here" shot at event X and took all my money and that they need to stay in their own division. Just another bad move by the IBO


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## gobblemg

Not the classes I would have thought of being added.


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## deer down

Haters. That's all I'm hearing. While the only class that might add people would be some known classes. Pbh is not a bad thing. I for hope that all the top dudes from ahc and mbr shoot in that class. The money in ahc is a joke and mbr is a joke also. I Damn near win the same money at a state level shoot in michigan. Let me ask you this. What is wrong with the top pin shooters having a pins class. Not everyone likes a scope or long bars. And I highly doubt anyone will pay that money just to say I'm a pro. And doubt that anyone all ready shooting open pro will leave for pins. But if they do. Cool. Besides. It's a bow hunting organization. So pro bow hunter makes sense to me.


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## tackscall

Won't the top AHC shooters be forced in to it? AHC only had around 70 shooters at the worlds compared to hundreds in HC. I don't see that going away, that's where the biggest prize money is right?


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## shawn_in_MA

They will have the class, some people will shoot it, but you are going to run into the same problems K50 runs into in ASA...people are going to say "It's a pro class, why isn't there any manufacturers contingency money???"


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## Kstigall

deer down said:


> Haters. That's all I'm hearing. While the only class that might add people would be some known classes. Pbh is not a bad thing. I for hope that all the top dudes from ahc and mbr shoot in that class. The money in ahc is a joke and mbr is a joke also. I Damn near win the same money at a state level shoot in michigan. Let me ask you this. What is wrong with the top pin shooters having a pins class. Not everyone likes a scope or long bars. And I highly doubt anyone will pay that money just to say I'm a pro. And doubt that anyone all ready shooting open pro will leave for pins. But if they do. Cool. Besides. It's a bow hunting organization. So pro bow hunter makes sense to me.


Not hating here..... I love shooting pins and I really loved shooting pins when I could see half way decent. I just don't see how a PHC will do anything for the IBO *unless* a sponsor is paying them. I'm almost willing to bet a paying sponsor is behind the creation of PHC because there doesn't seem to be a _current _market for it. Is BowTech or another dedicated hunting product manufacturer backing the PHC? We shall see..............

"And I highly doubt anyone will pay that money just to say I'm a pro." I know people will do it especially if there aren't too many other shooters. That way they can finish in the top 10 at most every shoot! Not hard to do when there are only 15 shooters.

If you want to actually win a little $$ then you have to shoot ASA but you'll be up against a LOT of archers!



shawn_in_MA said:


> They will have the class, some people will shoot it, but you are going to run into the same problems K50 runs into in ASA...people are going to say "It's a pro class, why isn't there any manufacturers contingency money???"


Because the name does NOT really matter. Contingency money will come when it is worth it to a sponsor. K50 is just now getting it's legs.


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## PETeach

What's the other one?


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## hrtlnd164

PETeach said:


> What's the other one?


Senior women's hunter.


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## PETeach

hrtlnd164 said:


> Senior women's hunter.


Thanks


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## deer down

i would love to shoot some asa nationals, but the travel time is a bigger commitment. So i shoot the ibo and take the good with the bad, and dont quote on this, i know 100% that this class idea was started with wesley vanhorn and i believe that there will be some sponsor money for this class by archery manufacturers. the thing is alot of people say this wont help grow the ibo, and i partially agree but it seems they cry about it cause they didnt get the class they wanted. put in the time and effort that wes did and maybe your class will happen. I would love to see more people at the shoots, wether you want to shoot known or unknown, were all bowhunters. also i think they could stand to lose a few classes. but im sure someone would cry about that also, cant please everyone.


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## nochance

Kstigall said:


> I don't see PHC ever amounting to much. Sure some manufacturers may promote it initially but ultimately it becomes irrelevant........ just like the rest of the IBO.


With all due respect the ibo is alive an well in the North east. Are they perfect? Heck no. Growing like ASA? maybe not but still getting good turnouts. ASA could be considered irrelevant up here. They do not have a presence. I know a lot of people like ASA and I'm not knocking them but many in the NE cannot swing travelling to ASA country. I know people worked hard to get enough signatures to get this class added. Perhaps if people worked hard to get enough signatures for known yardage classes they might give it a try but of course the ASA fans have already written IBO off.


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## stoz

nochance said:


> With all due respect the ibo is alive an well in the North east. Are they perfect? Heck no. Growing like ASA? maybe not but still getting good turnouts. ASA could be considered irrelevant up here. They do not have a presence. I know a lot of people like ASA and I'm not knocking them but many in the NE cannot swing travelling to ASA country. I know people worked hard to get enough signatures to get this class added. Perhaps if people worked hard to get enough signatures for known yardage classes they might give it a try but of course the ASA fans have already written IBO off.


Well said.


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## stoz

I can say I've shot pro, semi pro and hc and ahc and enjoyed the ahc top level shooters more than any others. Many talented guys willing to help others than I have ever seen in this sport for 20 plus years.


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## Dan-0

Sad day. 

I have no objections to the addition of these two classes. I honestly don't see the draw for a PHC, but I'm all for any experiment that may grow the attendance at these shoots. 

I'm just extremely disappointed that the IBO leadership missed the opportunity to add Known Yardage classes and vastly improve the attendance at the events. Just ridiculous.


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## tecshooter

nochance said:


> With all due respect the ibo is alive an well in the North east. Are they perfect? Heck no. Growing like ASA? maybe not but still getting good turnouts. ASA could be considered irrelevant up here. They do not have a presence. I know a lot of people like ASA and I'm not knocking them but many in the NE cannot swing travelling to ASA country. I know people worked hard to get enough signatures to get this class added. Perhaps if people worked hard to get enough signatures for known yardage classes they might give it a try but of course the ASA fans have already written IBO off.


Problem is, they aren't growing at all. Look back ten years at the numbers in any IBO class and look at them now; it's a huge dropoff. Kudos to those that wanted the Pro Hunter class added and worked for it, I applaud the effort, but it needed effort to want to add that class. There is really no comparable class except in Regions, and that has been a failure. When it comes to known yardage, just look at the numbers in the ASA classes. To me it would be a no brainer to add those classes and gain those shooters. I want the IBO to succeed, it's basically the only game we have up here unless we travel to ASA country, but I guess I'll leave it to say that I would do things differently.


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## f166

PHC should shoot 50 yards on the pro course. I don't see them setting a 45 yard.


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## tackscall

stoz said:


> I can say I've shot pro, semi pro and hc and ahc and enjoyed the ahc top level shooters more than any others. Many talented guys willing to help others than I have ever seen in this sport for 20 plus years.


I'll second that, I've shot the worlds in AHC four times and the guys I've shot with have been very nice, helpful, and tolerant of my crappy shooting


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## mocheese

deer down said:


> Haters. That's all I'm hearing. While the only class that might add people would be some known classes. Pbh is not a bad thing. I for hope that all the top dudes from ahc and mbr shoot in that class. The money in ahc is a joke and mbr is a joke also. I Damn near win the same money at a state level shoot in michigan. Let me ask you this. What is wrong with the top pin shooters having a pins class. Not everyone likes a scope or long bars. And I highly doubt anyone will pay that money just to say I'm a pro. And doubt that anyone all ready shooting open pro will leave for pins. But if they do. Cool. Besides. It's a bow hunting organization. So pro bow hunter makes sense to me.


Makes sense to me as well!!! I am a bowhunter. I've been shooting MBR for a few years now because I like shooting pins (never could adjust to a scope for 3D). Until this class came along I didn't really have anywhere to go from there and even though I've never won the class I've been close to the top of it last couple years. I hope it is a success!!


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## stoz

So has any of the people that are up in arms for a known class spear headed a petition or campaign to add these classes or is it just easy to type and complain?


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## Bucks

I view it as a capacity problem. the northern triple crown shoots set A-P courses which is 16 ranges with 10 targets each. if they had 400 shooters, there would be 16 ranges. If there are 2000 shooters my guess is it would be the same. from what I can tell, there are 1000-1300 shooters and the ranges are maxed out for most of the days.

the only thing that keeps me from going back to the ibo big events are the waits and the time needed to shoot a whole 40. I absolutely detest waiting 3-4 groups deep at a stake to only take one shot, then repeat at the next stake. there are no additional classes that will help this, they just need to set more ranges to spread out the shooters already there. If they can get the shooting times down to 4 hours, it would perhaps allow people to shoot more than one class. For instance, I would shoot a compound class then grab a recurve and some friends and have a go at another round. When I travel 4 hours to a shoot, it would be nice to be able to shoot more than 40 arrows for score over the time span of a whole weekend.

Dear IBO: try this... figure out a way to allow people to spend more time moving and shooting than sitting around in their chairs. In fact, is it possible to have a shoot where they don't need to lug around a chair?


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## milkman38

couple of questions, if a guy shoots pbh will he have to shoot open pro in asa? and a less serious note could anyone drop down from open pro and knock out ol wes if thats even possible. i love shooting pins and alot of practice goes into gaping and holding with short bars,still not ready to go the easy route with lens,sight and long bars. pbh for me next yr.


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## PaHunter80

How will this new class draw in more shooters to IBO events? 

The numbers will remain the same, the only difference will be current IBO shooters switching classes.

If there is a need to create additional classes, create classes that will draw in new shooters.


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## hrtlnd164

While I applaud those responsible for the effort to get this class going, I also don't see how it can grow participation for the IBO. Only a select few will step up and participate. With it being labeled as a "Pro" class, I would assume anyone shooting in it would be required to shoot Pro in other orgs also. With being a Pro class I would have liked to have seen them shoot 50 max on the Pro ranges, just seems like a glorified MBR class. With the IBO numbers being stagnant the last few years and the Pro class numbers dwindling I would have thought this would be a good time for the IBO to look for ways to bring in new shooters and not water down the existing classes even more. Good luck to those who step up in the new season!


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## Kstigall

milkman38 said:


> couple of questions, if a guy shoots pbh will he have to shoot open pro in asa? and a less serious note could anyone drop down from open pro and knock out ol wes if thats even possible. i love shooting pins and alot of practice goes into gaping and holding with short bars,still not ready to go the easy route with lens,sight and long bars. pbh for me next yr.


The answer to your first question, if you shoot "pro" another organization then you must a shoot a pro or semi-pro class in ASA. Of course the ASA can make exceptions but I'm sure the only possible class a PBH guy could shoot that wasn't a "pro" or semi-pro class would be the Unlimited class (50 yard).

There is no rule that says an Open Pro could not shoot PHC. However, unless the money is there I doubt any will change. Some years ago I shot a few IBO shoots in AHC and shot Hunter in the ASA and BHFS in the NFAA. I really enjoyed shooting pins. There is not _as big_ of a difference between pin shooting and adjustable sight shooting in the IBO as there is in the ASA. In IBO everyone including fixed pin archers are shooting center 10. Being off vertically bit may still get you an 11 and at worse a 10. 

You can look at the SOY scores for AHC and PMR to evaluate and compare. Remember, PMR courses are 25% longer than AHC courses. Guesstimate the advantage of using an adjustable sight and lens. I expect many of the younger Pro's would not be giving up a whole lot by not using a lens on IBO targets since they will start be shooting center 10's. A lens means more in the ASA because of the smaller 12 ring and it's not in the center of the 10. I would say that the decent current PMR guys would score _maybe _just a few points less in PHC than they currently do in PMR. They give up their lens but the targets are 5 yards closer while the fixed pins would cost them about 6 or so points on 40 targets. I'm speculating the AHC guys would score some points lower in PHC than they do in AHC. The PHC courses will be over 10% longer than AHC courses. I know a 2 yard error on a 40 yard target isn't nearly as bad as a 2 yard error on a 45 yard target and yardage guessing can be more difficult on further targets. I know the difference between a 40 and a 45 yards class in the ASA is huge to me!!!!

I would have simply made PHC a 50 yard class and put them on the PMR courses.

Why doesn't the IBO simply have a "move up" requirement? Isn't the only difference between MBR and AHC is the stabilizer length and 5 yards?

Assuming there are sponsors putting money on the table I expect PHC will draw some archers from other classes and possibly some currently dedicated ASA guys.


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## silhouette13

yes, well said. IBO is the only game in my area and the areas around me. some NFAA field but its either local club shoots (GSB) or IBO qualifiers for 3D . ASA is irrelevant here as said. NO presence at all.i dont under stand either we have plenty of power lines to walk up and down.




nochance said:


> With all due respect the ibo is alive an well in the North east. Are they perfect? Heck no. Growing like ASA? maybe not but still getting good turnouts. ASA could be considered irrelevant up here. They do not have a presence. I know a lot of people like ASA and I'm not knocking them but many in the NE cannot swing travelling to ASA country. I know people worked hard to get enough signatures to get this class added. Perhaps if people worked hard to get enough signatures for known yardage classes they might give it a try but of course the ASA fans have already written IBO off.


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## milkman38

what might hurt for some of the guys as u mentioned eariler for numbers is their will be a number of hc and ahc will try the pbh class and find out not for them and now will be stuck at pro level and quit shooting because cant go back. thing is to win ibo u cant miss the 11's , 10s are like 8,s in asa.


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## PETeach

f166 said:


> PHC should shoot 50 yards on the pro course. I don't see them setting a 45 yard.


They already set a 45yd max stake! It isn't any extra work! FBO, MBR, MSR, MCBH and probably a few other classes already shoot that distance!


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## Dan-0

stoz said:


> So has any of the people that are up in arms for a known class spear headed a petition or campaign to add these classes or is it just easy to type and complain?


My understanding is that they had the opportunity. It was discussed, debated, and it didn't happen. This is a topic best suited while having a beer someday. Controversial issue, even though in my mind it shouldn't be. 

The goal should be to increase participation. That apparently isn't paramount.


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## Bubba Dean

Don't have a dog in this show but I don't see very much sponsor money coming to a Pro Bowhunter class. Manufacturers are struggling with what they pay right now. Having an entry fee that is roughly half what the Pro entry is make this class more of a Semipro class.


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## Topper1018

So in order for a top MBR shooter to go "pro pins" they have to switch to short bars but still shoot same max distance and perhaps same course anyway? SO the difference between a pro level pin shooter class and an amateur level pin shooter class is stab length in the reverse order one would logically think? 
I also have no dog in this fight, I'm a scope and slider shooter, but that seems a little squirly. Also I have friends who are upper echelon MBR shooters that I am trying to convince to shoot some Asa as well, this then means if they were to ahoot PHC, those guys would have to shoot pro level ASA even if they don't shoot their pins. Controversial.


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## Air_Raid

Sounds good


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## deer down

Seems to me that people have more of a problem with the class name. What if it was called elite hunter or something. It's the pro that everyone wants to find fault in.


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## tank69kma

I'm curious how many of the top 100 in AHC and HC make the leap. They are already doing very well in those classes, why pay more? If there is more money, great, but I don't see many shooters being motivated to move to this class when they are doing well and paying less of an entry in AHC and HC.


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## Kstigall

Topper1018 said:


> So in order for a top MBR shooter to go "pro pins" they have to switch to short bars but still shoot same max distance and perhaps same course anyway? SO the difference between a pro level pin shooter class and an amateur level pin shooter class is stab length in the reverse order one would logically think?
> I also have no dog in this fight, I'm a scope and slider shooter, but that seems a little squirly. Also I have friends who are upper echelon MBR shooters that I am trying to convince to shoot some Asa as well, this then means if they were to ahoot PHC, those guys would have to shoot pro level ASA even if they don't shoot their pins. Controversial.


Yep. However, they could shoot the ASA Semi-Pro classes. As it stands they would be required to shoot "Pro" in the NFAA. Let us not forget that shooting PHS would also require you to shoot a "Pro" at all state level shoots as well.



deer down said:


> Seems to me that people have more of a problem with the class name. What if it was called elite hunter or something. It's the pro that everyone wants to find fault in.


The name of the class does not matter in anyway. The fact that it is considered a "pro" class by the IBO causes the problems. Maybe there will be a enough money by a major sponsor thrown on the table to make it a very popular class. That is about the only way it will draw a decent turn out and even then it would be guys that are already shooting tournaments in another class. If let's say CBE/Scott and Coca Cola put up a $10,000 pot for PHC. I fully expect some of the current best archers in the world would quickly be setting pins. Unless their sponsors don't put contingency money on the table for PHC. If the big companies don't pay contingency for PHC is it really a big league "Pro" class? The answer is "No". If the best 3D'ers aren't playing in PHC then at best it is a "Pro minor league" class. 

If there is enough money in PHC then Levi, Chance and Jack should jump in it. I just don't see the best archers being evenly divided between two pro classes. One class WILL be the "Big Dog" class and the other will be the " 'wanna be" class.

Why not just raise the entry fee for MBR AND increase the payout for MBR? Why not have a "move up" requirement for the lower classes? 

There must be a big money sponsor that has basically paid the IBO to create PHC. Otherwise it defies logic as to why the IBO created PHC. I do NOT think there is anything wrong with an outside sponsor. In fact I think that would be great!


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## milkman38

why is the semi pro class a popular class, by the same rights u already have the big dogs and the minor leagues semi pro, maybe make it semi pro open and pins?


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## deer down

your right kent, only one big dog class, lets hear your thoughts on the pro fingers class.. smh, I agree, if the ibo had changed the structure of the current pins classes it could be better, i for one think hunter should be a one year and out, after a year your no longer a beginner, put in a bump out rule for ahc, and make mbr a mandatory money class, the fact that you even have an option in either class is beyond me. either way i think the top guys in ahc and mbr should all be in one class regardless of the class name. hopefully some money will bring everyone to the class. time will tell.


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## T&A

deer down said:


> your right kent, only one big dog class, lets hear your thoughts on the pro fingers class.. smh, I agree, if the ibo had changed the structure of the current pins classes it could be better, i for one think hunter should be a one year and out, after a year your no longer a beginner, put in a bump out rule for ahc, and make mbr a mandatory money class, the fact that you even have an option in either class is beyond me. either way i think the top guys in ahc and mbr should all be in one class regardless of the class name. hopefully some money will bring everyone to the class. time will tell.




Where in the rule book does it call hunter a beginner class take a look at the scores pretty sure some of the best shooters in Ibo shooting there its not very hard to shoot in the top ten or twenty shooters when there only is 40 or 50 shooters little different when there is 200 shooters


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## darton3d

T&A said:


> Where in the rule book does it call hunter a beginner class take a look at the scores pretty sure some of the best shooters in Ibo shooting there its not very hard to shoot in the top ten or twenty shooters when there only is 40 or 50 shooters little different when there is 200 shooters


It's listed under "Level Three - Entry Level Adult Classes". Not saying I agree or disagree with the post you are questioning. Just answering your question about the rules.


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## bsharkey

There are more women shooters every year if they are going to add classes one should be female advanced hunter yellow stake.
Right now when women move out of hunter class it's a 10 yard jump no men's class has to jump 10.


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## deer down

the hunter was designed by the ibo as an entry level class to get the back yard shooters interested in the 3d sport. not meant to be shot year in year out, i agree some fantastic scores come out of that class, and those guys are the ones who should be shooting 40 or 45 yds pins classes, instead they love the high scores and hang in hunter class,


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## tackscall

deer down said:


> the hunter was designed by the ibo as an entry level class to get the back yard shooters interested in the 3d sport. not meant to be shot year in year out, i agree some fantastic scores come out of that class, and those guys are the ones who should be shooting 40 or 45 yds pins classes, instead they love the high scores and hang in hunter class,


Is it the high scores or is it the prize money because there are so many shooters?


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## Deer Slayer I

shot mbr for years and shot well my brother shoot shc this year he went up to ahc i went down to ahc so we could shoot together. We drive all these miles to shoot havent shot together in years decided if we r going to make the drives we want to shoot together. We just want to shoot if u want to force people out of one class to another in the end we just wont shoot. Its why we like the IBO


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## deer down

there is no money in hc, so its got to be the scores and the 35 yrd max that keeps the people there. as far as a force out rule, people need to remember these are national tournaments, and archers should shoot with people in there same skill level in my opinion. should be peered up at every shoot to


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## tackscall

deer down said:


> there is no money in hc, so its got to be the scores and the 35 yrd max that keeps the people there. as far as a force out rule, people need to remember these are national tournaments, and archers should shoot with people in there same skill level in my opinion. should be peered up at every shoot to


Really? No cash prize?


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## stoz

Its funny all the complaining about this class is on here. I helped to get this going spear headed by Wes and all I hear is positive feed back. I sat at Stan booth for hours at marengo and no one said it was bad. The Ibo thrives on the HC. So why wouldn't they want to support that. Every single top level pin shooter I've met has been an awesome person. I shot pro and semi years ago and I've never seen so much grumbling over calls and rules. Jmho


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## milkman38

right on, u win pin guy buys u the first round. thanks stoz for your your work


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## 3D Pinwheeler

Don't take offense to this Stoz or Wes but. ...Two former Pro and Semi Pro shooters competing in an Adult Amature class is whats wrong with the IBO.


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## stoz

No offense taken in my case I took 8 years off of shooting competitively and started back shooting. First year was barely finishing locally in top 5 . No one was shooting open in my area. Not much fun shooting against no one. Second year I finally figured out my vision problem mid season and from there on I have been improving. Won out of hc 2nd year finished top 5 this year in ahc with 2nd at worlds and now I feel I'm close to being back to where I was years ago and ready for pro pins. Glad to clear that up. I don't mind any one questioning me as long as I can explain. I can't talk for any one else and I would support any move out rule.


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## 3D Pinwheeler

Cool. Wasn't questioning you or Wes. Just a typical IBO issue. You guys are within their rules and can compete where u like based on their rules. Hope you can get more guys to compete than PMR in the new class. I wouldnt put money on it though. 
Id sign the petition to get Wes into a different class....so I wouldn't have to shoot against him ..lol take care and good luck in Pro Pins


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## T&A

deer down said:


> the hunter was designed by the ibo as an entry level class to get the back yard shooters interested in the 3d sport. not meant to be shot year in year out, i agree some fantastic scores come out of that class, and those guys are the ones who should be shooting 40 or 45 yds pins classes, instead they love the high scores and hang in hunter class,



I don't think anybody hangs in the hunter class they have to move out when they start winning the rules clearly state this and if you haven't won or finished in top 5 at the worlds or top 10 in the triple crown you obviously aren't ready to move any body who moves early is just trying to dodge the competition it not near as hard to be in the top 10 or 20 when you only have 40 shooters or less just my opinion and I'm sure we all have different ones


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## wpk

tackscall said:


> Really? No cash prize?


There is if you win SOY about 1800$


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## Punch_Master

Just what the IBO needs is more classes.
I think they need a lefthanded, blue eyed, gray haired, right eyed dominant, short, overweight, and old male shooting a 12 year old hoyt ultratec with pins and litespeed arrows hunter class. If they had that class I just know I could win me a IBO belt buckle too.

Seriously, how many classes do we really need for cripes sake? Do you know how many trophies clubs have to give out for a qualifier or state championship? It's ridiculous.


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## meloy10

T&A said:


> I don't think anybody hangs in the hunter class they have to move out when they start winning the rules clearly state this and if you haven't won or finished in top 5 at the worlds or top 10 in the triple crown you obviously aren't ready to move any body who moves early is just trying to dodge the competition it not near as hard to be in the top 10 or 20 when you only have 40 shooters or less just my opinion and I'm sure we all have different ones



really?!?!?....look at the scores...your telling me someone who shoots 10 up in all triple crown events (which isnt even top 20) and moves out isnt ready?


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## <COPE>

All this complaining amazes me.. people complain about people staying in hunter classes winning all the time and not moving out, then they complain about them adding another class for them to go to .... It doesn't matter what class your in there's always a couple people that shoot very well in it .... 
To be the best you have to beat the best..


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## woodsman78

<COPE> said:


> All this complaining amazes me.. people complain about people staying in hunter classes winning all the time and not moving out, then they complain about them adding another class for them to go to .... It doesn't matter what class your in there's always a couple people that shoot very well in it ....
> To be the best you have to beat the best..


well said Cope amazing isn't it.


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## T&A

meloy10 said:


> really?!?!?....look at the scores...your telling me someone who shoots 10 up in all triple crown events (which isnt even top 20) and moves out isnt ready?


At what national Ibo shoot did 10 up not make the top 20 in 2014


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## wpk

meloy10 said:


> really?!?!?....look at the scores...your telling me someone who shoots 10 up in all triple crown events (which isnt even top 20) and moves out isnt ready?


10 up will barely get you a top 10 in any class so no they're not


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## T&A

<COPE> said:


> All this complaining amazes me.. people complain about people staying in hunter classes winning all the time and not moving out, then they complain about them adding another class for them to go to .... It doesn't matter what class your in there's always a couple people that shoot very well in it ....
> To be the best you have to beat the best..


Best statement in this whole thread


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## stoz

T&A said:


> Best statement in this whole thread


Amen


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## mocheese

I know this thread has been dead for a while but the season is nearly upon us and I'm curious as to how many shooters are actually going to shoot this class. I am seriously considering it but don't want to show up to the first shoot and be stuck in a class with 8 shooters. I truly hope its a success. I've been in MBR for a while now and have met some great archers. I think we have a great group there. Would just be nice to know the Pro hunter class is going to work before committing to it. As for some who say some of us just want to be able to call ourselves Pros, that really has nothing to do with it for me. I just want to shoot against the best archers I can shooting pins. Also I've shot with some of the best guys in MBR and they are no joke. There may not be a lot in the class but the top level guys are a tough bunch!


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## hrtlnd164

Well it looked like there was 1 at Indoor Worlds in Cleveland.


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## nochance

I think a fair amount of would be PHC shooters were at Lancaster. Too bad they schedule the same weekend.
They should make Cleveland part of the SOY including the move out rules but that's another story.


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## nochance

I also think many would be PHC shooters were at the Wintercam last weekend! What a stacked field, many of the best from HC and AHC.


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## outbackarcher

I am curious as to how many will participate in PHC as well. This whole thread has been about what a bad decision and it's not going to grow the IBO. The class wasn't added to grow the IBO it was added because a lot of the pin shooters fought to get it added. The payout money will be a lot better for the ones that compete in it. I host the Spring National and the numbers interest me because of range layouts and how to handle these guys in a shotgun start as they will have to shoot Saturday and Sunday like the rest of the Pro and Semi pro classes.

Bryan is not for a known yardage class as he likes the unknown yardage side of 3-D archery. I personally think known classes would bring a lot of new shooters but I respect his opinion. The IBO is changing and it is for the better. We as archers are getting new locations to shoot at as this is the last year for Bedford and Erie. Bryan has a vision and he's trying to work it so just bare with him.


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## Doug10

tackscall said:


> I'll second that, I've shot the worlds in AHC four times and the guys I've shot with have been very nice, helpful, and tolerant of my crappy shooting


Are you planning on coming up to RI, CT, MA, ME, VT or NH this year for the IBO Qualifiers?


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## ARCHERYXPERT

I think it's a great new class. I've shot mbo for years with some success. No wins but some top tens and making the peer groups the last the years. And always wanted to go back to mbr and was considering it. Then I seen this new class. Im pumped and I'm scheduled to hit Winter and spring Nationals already.


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## tackscall

Doug10 said:


> Are you planning on coming up to RI, CT, MA, ME, VT or NH this year for the IBO Qualifiers?


I know I can't make the one close to me, so I may have to travel for one


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## Kighty7

I really just enjoy shooting my bow. I wish I lived closer to some ASA shoots but with work, kids, and a wife, like many others, I shoot the local IBO shoots and the main IBO legs. Ihave shot MBO, MBR, and HC. I have had a lot of fun with people I have met at the IBO shoots. Personally, I would love to see some known yardage classes to dabble in. I am thinking of getting some petitions for the major shoots to get some known yardage classes. I have a bunch of buddies who would shoot the IBO if they had some Known Yardage classes. I think it would be a great time!


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## ahcnc

What is the entry fee for PHC?? I can't seem to find it.....


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## outbackarcher

It should be the same as semi pro which is 140 I believe.


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## ARCHERYXPERT

outbackarcher said:


> It should be the same as semi pro which is 140 I believe.


Correct, $140


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## stoz

outbackarcher said:


> I am curious as to how many will participate in PHC as well. This whole thread has been about what a bad decision and it's not going to grow the IBO. The class wasn't added to grow the IBO it was added because a lot of the pin shooters fought to get it added. The payout money will be a lot better for the ones that compete in it. I host the Spring National and the numbers interest me because of range layouts and how to handle these guys in a shotgun start as they will have to shoot Saturday and Sunday like the rest of the Pro and Semi pro classes.
> 
> Bryan is not for a known yardage class as he likes the unknown yardage side of 3-D archery. I personally think known classes would bring a lot of new shooters but I respect his opinion. The IBO is changing and it is for the better. We as archers are getting new locations to shoot at as this is the last year for Bedford and Erie. Bryan has a vision and he's trying to work it so just bare with him.


Will we have to pre register for this class. I guess I didn't realize the winter and spring did shotgun start like the three legs do. I will be in. Have a team ready to go too.. Hope the best of mbr ahc and hc step up and go.


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## outbackarcher

No you will sign up on site.


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## ARCHERYXPERT

stoz said:


> Will we have to pre register for this class. I guess I didn't realize the winter and spring did shotgun start like the three legs do. I will be in. Have a team ready to go too.. Hope the best of mbr ahc and hc step up and go.


The winter nationals is shoot anytime for PHC. I emailed the office for that info.


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## force1

IBO is coming out soon with phc news


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## Bowtech54

I'm sorry but the IBO is doing what was requested by several shooters. When did shooting archery become a sport dealing with nothing but money $$$$$$. I like both organizations but if you are going to shoot for money in the ASA or IBO you will starve to death. There's no corporate sponsorships dumping money into the winning purses.


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