# Difference in X-tra Stiff and Stiff Stabilizers



## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

SEC said:


> Ok...I am not trying to be a smart "bleep" I really am looking for the answer to this.
> 
> What is the difference between the new X-tra stiff stabilizers (B-stinger, Doinker Fatty, X-Rod, etc...) and the stiff stabilizers of the past couple of years...such as the Doinker A-bomb or Easton ACE ?
> 
> ...



Think of it like a fishing rod, if your using an ultralight action rod, and get a blue gill hitting your bait the rod is going to bounce all over the place, where if your using a heavy action rod it will hardly move.

The more flex the stabilizer has the more it will react to subtle movements giving a shakier sight picture. Where an ultra stiff stabilizer doesn't flex when you bobble so it recovers, and gets you back on target much faster.


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## golfingguy27 (Oct 15, 2008)

I am actually thinking about something along these lines too. I shot my new bow with the new stabilizers a ton today.. probably 200 shots or more. I got the X Rod from Bernie, which is kind of medium stiffness in the big picture of things. It is .85 diameter and he says it is stiffer than any other standard rod out there. He also has hi modulus rods too, but I decided to kind of go down the middle of the road since I didn't know what I would like. Sometimes if I make a less than perfect shot, or if I bobble before the shot, I can feel a little spring. I'm debating if I shouldn't send it back and get a high modulus one. I have that option if I choose to do so. I guess the only possible "drawbacks" to a stiffer rod is a little more shock/vibration, and higher cost?


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

golfingguy27 said:


> I am actually thinking about something along these lines too. I shot my new bow with the new stabilizers a ton today.. probably 200 shots or more. I got the X Rod from Bernie, which is kind of medium stiffness in the big picture of things. It is .85 diameter and he says it is stiffer than any other standard rod out there. He also has hi modulus rods too, but I decided to kind of go down the middle of the road since I didn't know what I would like. Sometimes if I make a less than perfect shot, or if I bobble before the shot, I can feel a little spring. I'm debating if I shouldn't send it back and get a high modulus one. I have that option if I choose to do so. I guess the only possible "drawbacks" to a stiffer rod is a little more shock/vibration, and higher cost?


If you have the option for a stiffer rod go for it. I can't tell you how many points the stiff rods have saved me this winter. I would have a bobble just as the shot broke. I thought for sure I was all the way out of the spot, but when I glassed the target my arrow was in the center of the X. The recovery rate of the stiff rods just blows my mind.
The only draw back of a stiff rod is a little more felt vibration, but if that bothers you, it's not hard to fix.


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## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

BOWGOD said:


> If you have the option for a stiffer rod go for it. I can't tell you how many points the stiff rods have saved me this winter. I would have a bobble just as the shot broke. I thought for sure I was all the way out of the spot, but when I glassed the target my arrow was in the center of the X. The recovery rate of the stiff rods just blows my mind.
> The only draw back of a stiff rod is a little more felt vibration, but if that bothers you, it's not hard to fix.


If your bad shots are dead center Xs, I'll put my bets on you to win the Nationals this weekend. :wink:

The biggest difference for me is how the bow resists movement; the differences in noise and vibration between the B-Stinger and "softer" carbon stabilizers is really negligible, and means nothing for target archery.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

CherryJu1ce said:


> If your bad shots are dead center Xs, I'll put my bets on you to win the Nationals this weekend. :wink:


Nah, I still make a few GOOD shots once in a while that find their way out of the dot lol.

But I can say this, I finally got over the 300 hill this year, and for once my scores has some semblance of consistency to them through out the year. And that is my #1 goal this year is just to have some sort of consistency to my scores. I don't care if they're good scores or bad scores, as long as they are consistent. It gets hard to judge how I should be shooting when I can shoot a 530 one week, and a 515 the next.


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## Sturdyman (Oct 30, 2009)

SEC said:


> Ok...I am not trying to be a smart "bleep" I really am looking for the answer to this.
> 
> What is the difference between the new X-tra stiff stabilizers (B-stinger, Doinker Fatty, X-Rod, etc...) and the stiff stabilizers of the past couple of years...such as the Doinker A-bomb or Easton ACE ?
> 
> ...


So what is the difference? Would someone please rate these rods from stiffest to not so stiff? Better yet would someone please list the differences and the perceived advantage or disadvantage if theses rods. I am at a loss in this area. 

This Friday I am making yet another run to LAS. I will be the one trying all the different stabs. Just look for the blue Classic X with dreadlocks. No doubt I will stick out like sore thumb.


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

From what I found and also read about is this: The stiffer the rod the less movement your *bow* will notice at the time of the shot. BUT a rod that is too stiff much like an over spined arrow will also show at this time of the shot. This idea of a medium stiffness will cause you to bounce more is crazy. If you are moving then you are moving. The stabilizer will not flex enough for most to ever notice any bounce. Most rods only come into play at the time of the shot. The stabilizer mainly only does a couple of things. 1st it helps balance the bow and 2nd it helps absorb the shock from the bow at the time of the shot when the bow explodes (Not really explodes)


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Sturdyman said:


> So what is the difference? Would someone please rate these rods from stiffest to not so stiff? Better yet would someone please list the differences and the perceived advantage or disadvantage if theses rods. I am at a loss in this area.
> 
> This Friday I am making yet another run to LAS. I will be the one trying all the different stabs. Just look for the blue Classic X with dreadlocks. No doubt I will stick out like sore thumb.


The best advice that I can give you is to take your bow and shoot the different rods. This is the time for you to make your decision. Remember most of the Pros will shoot whatever they are given. Reo shoots the Doinker and Jesse and CO. shoot the B stinger. In reality these guys can shoot anything and make it work for them.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Rattleman said:


> The best advice that I can give you is to take your bow and shoot the different rods. This is the time for you to make your decision. Remember most of the Pros will shoot whatever they are given. Reo shoots the Doinker and Jesse and CO. shoot the B stinger. In reality these guys can shoot anything and make it work for them.


Reo has shot a B-Stinger since last year.....he first appeared with one at Outdoor Nats 

Video from the Team match at FITA Worlds last summer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ylnzfyUJE 

and Reo and Shane at LAS after Reo won.....plus all the weight on his stab


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> Reo has shot a B-Stinger since last year.....he first appeared with one at Outdoor Nats
> 
> Video from the Team match at FITA Worlds last summer
> 
> ...


Sorry I thought Reo was still shooting the Doinker. But like I said earlier these guys can shoot whatever and make it work for them.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Rattleman said:


> Sorry I thought Reo was still shooting the Doinker. But like I said earlier these guys can shoot whatever and make it work for them.


without a doubt......


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## KStover (Jan 24, 2009)

Some of these manufactures may be using a thicker wall carbon fiber tubing, to get the stiffer stabilizer. Compare it to an Easton aluminum shaft, say a 2114 to a 2117. The thicker walled shaft will be stiffer, but it will also weight a little more.
I have studied this a little, here are my thoughts. As an example a carbon fiber rod that has a 1” OD and a .035 wall weighs .070 lbs per foot, a CF rod with the same OD and a .062 wall weighs .121 lbs per foot (.064 is what most CF bicycle companies use for their frames). So using these materials a 36” long, thin walled stab would weigh .210 lbs, with out the endcaps installed, and the thicker walled material would weigh .363 lbs. The .153 difference equates to an extra 2.44 ounces. We all know that adding a little weight, some times, can improve our aiming. 
Or they could be using the same wall thickness and use a larger OD rod, which would have the same effect on its weight.
If anyone has both , a X-tra stiff and stiff stabilizer from the same manufacture, it would be interesting to see what the weight difference is.

Or I maybe smoking dope and they have a new miracle fiber their using, but I doubt it.

Keith


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I can tell you this, I am currently shooting a Doinker Carbon Elite...It is a "mid" stiff stab. Stiffest there was before the new generation... I've also felt the B-Stinger XL premier and actually shot one a few times. 

The B-Stinger is noticeably stiffer and also noticeably lighter without weights. How exactly they achieved this I don't know, but it is definitely the case.

That said, it did seem to shoot a marginally better on my bow than my Doinker. I've since removed the "doinker" part and can't notice as significant a difference anymore. 

Do I think it might be better...??? Yes...Do I think its worth $250...No...Will I buy one from the classifieds some day...? probably...


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

SEC said:


> ...I am talking about in the act of sighting, shooting, follow through, etc... why are the new "x-tra stiff" better than the "really stiff" stabs?
> 
> Please don't flame me! I truly would like to know.


I think for the act of aiming there is a "practical" stiffness that many achieve, as long as everything is mounted solid. Of course that also assumes a "normal" amount of tip weight. I think most of the old ACE or X10 stabs can achieve this practical level with moderat amounts of weight. 

To me, the stiffer rods are light years ahead on the during the shot differences. The bows oscillations and frequency is met by more resistance with the stiffer rods and added tip weight. 

As far as follow through I've found the stiff rods to be more "fluid" without a "second" follow through from the weight catching up to the bow.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

I think Rattleman and Bobmuley hit it pretty well on.. the act of 'holding on the dot' is more a factor of the weight distribution across the whole rig... as long as the stab can 'support' the weight you hang on the end of it, this can be reproduced with several variations on stabilizers and still allow you to 'hold on the dot' (by experimenting with weight distribution). 

But.. the carbon tube stabs do definitely have an advantage in that they can focus the weight in the actual added weights, rather than distributing it along the entire length of the stab. The formula is very basic.. the tube weight, the end fittings weight (this is actually the most important part), and the added weights. 

Carbon tubing can have various ratings, modulus is most important when it comes to a stabilizer application. The amount of 'deflection' that the tubing sees when stressed by the movement of the end weights at the moment of the shot and applied torque to the stabilizer from the bow's riser. Someone recently (I think it was Cuz) posted that it takes approximately 70ms for the arrow to clear the bow before the return of the riser to it's 'relaxed' position can occur without affecting arrow flight.. i.e. - it takes 70ms to clear, so you want your riser to hold the 'shot' position for that long before it recovers.

Will med stiff vs extra stiff make that much difference? Perhaps, I think depending on how well your form lends itself to minimizing torque on the rig. 70ms isn't long as most think, but in the high speed analysis of the reaction of the bow, it may actually benefit to have the stiffer rod to slow the recoil of the riser down enough to ensure arrow clearance.

I think the 'fasteners' or end fittings used to connect all the pieces are the most critical part of the equation. Carbon tubing is carbon tubing. Weight is weight. You have to be able to securely connect the parts and do it with minimal weight and that's a bit tricky.. 

Let's face it.. when it comes to stiff, aluminum tubed stabs blow away carbon in a similar size range and application for archery stabs.. the difference? The weight.. that's the only magic going on here.. 

As Rattleman said, experimentation is probably the only way you'll really know what you like the best or what seems to work the best for you.. borrow.. try someone's at the practice range.. they'll let ya.. :lol: :wink:


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

IGluIt4U said:


> I think Rattleman and Bobmuley hit it pretty well on.. the act of 'holding on the dot' is more a factor of the weight distribution across the whole rig... as long as the stab can 'support' the weight you hang on the end of it, this can be reproduced with several variations on stabilizers and still allow you to 'hold on the dot' (by experimenting with weight distribution).
> 
> But.. the carbon tube stabs do definitely have an advantage in that they can focus the weight in the actual added weights, rather than distributing it along the entire length of the stab. The formula is very basic.. the tube weight, the end fittings weight (this is actually the most important part), and the added weights.
> 
> ...


I believe you are talking about George Ryals IV in an article here in Field Archery


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Rattleman said:


> I believe you are talking about George Ryals IV in an article here in Field Archery


Yea, yea.. that's it.. (sorry Griv) :wink: :doh:


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## Unclegus (May 27, 2003)

I've always kind of thought the balance thing was kind of a common sense thing. Has anyone written any info about these stiffer stabilizers having different harmonics that are more agreeable with shooting an arrow than those that have the rubber/shock absorber approach????:noidea:


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