# short bow for fingers



## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

I guess my question would be:

Why do so many guys want to know "how short of a bow can I shoot OK with fingers?"

Seems to me the REAL QUESTION to be asking is, "What ata length bow would I be able to get the BEST accuracy out of shooting fingers?"

In my opinion, the answer is "nothing less than 40".......unless perhaps your AMO draw-length is under 26".....

Most guys would be amazed at the difference in finger-pinch at full-draw (and therefore the ability to get a truly clean release), between a 46" ata and 40" ata!!!! 

Problem is, most guys started shooting "short" compounds with a release-aid......then tried to use the same (or similar) bows with fingers......

Also, the "good 'ol days" of being able to find a selection of TRUELY finger-friendly compounds (44"+ ata, 8+" brace and round-wheels) are long gone......


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Again.......Brian Goza won the Pro Mens Fingers class at the I.B.O. Worlds this year shooting a Mathews Monster...33" A-T-A, and 6" brace height....I saw, with my own two eyes, a fella from the bow shop (that I used to work at, and now am just a "Regular" at), shooting Fingers, shoot 14 up on an Indoor 3-D course, with a PSE X-Force "Super Short"..This is a 29" A-T-A bow, with a 6" brace height...How short can a Finger shooter get down to, and still shoot well??...Depends on what "game" they want to play, how hard they want to work at it, how much Talent they have, and what the Individual Finger shooter considers "Accurate"....Texas Guy, I agree with Your post for the most part, but keep in mind that some of the longer A-T-A Paralell limb bows will show less string angle at full draw than the ATA would suggest...And not alot of Finger shooters that I've seen shoot with 3 fingers on the string...Most use 2, some use just 1...Long A-T-A wheel bows are fine for Spots, I love they way they draw and shoot, myself.....But for 3-D, and alot of hunting situations, a shorter, faster bow might suit some folks better.....Take Care.....Jim


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

Another interesting dichotomy of what makes a finger bow. I'm now in the short bow and cams school of thought. However, I seem to prefer bows with a 42" ATA and draw with 3 fingers but loose with 2 (drop my pointer at anchor - actually it sort of pops out). I've shot bows as short as 39" ATA but they're just not long enough for me. I'm going to try a Drenalin LD and see if it's OK for a hunting bow but I have my doubts, although I'd love a really light bow for cruising through the woods. I know a lot of guys are shooting super short ATA bows with fingers. It's really a personal preference. One man's castle and all that ... 

I setup and shot my 2005 ProTec with XT4000 limbs and cam 1/2 last night. It has a generous 45" ATA and is a pleasure to draw. However, when I let go of the string there's lots of "swishing" noise and vibration which seems to be the price of the long ATA. The bow is right on specs, the cams are tuned perfectly, and I have two catwhiskers on the string. I may try a string stop or even, gasp, wheels. If you're into long ATAs, try shooting a Hoyt Vantage to see what a vibration free bow is really about.


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

Harperman said:


> Again.......Brian Goza won the Pro Mens Fingers class at the I.B.O. Worlds this year shooting a Mathews Monster...33" A-T-A, and 6" brace height....I saw, with my own two eyes, a fella from the bow shop (that I used to work at, and now am just a "Regular" at), shooting Fingers, shoot 14 up on an Indoor 3-D course, with a PSE X-Force "Super Short"..This is a 29" A-T-A bow, with a 6" brace height...How short can a Finger shooter get down to, and still shoot well??...Depends on what "game" they want to play, how hard they want to work at it, how much Talent they have, and what the Individual Finger shooter considers "Accurate"....Texas Guy, I agree with Your post for the most part, but keep in mind that some of the longer A-T-A Paralell limb bows will show less string angle at full draw than the ATA would suggest...And not alot of Finger shooters that I've seen shoot with 3 fingers on the string...Most use 2, some use just 1...Long A-T-A wheel bows are fine for Spots, I love they way they draw and shoot, myself.....But for 3-D, and alot of hunting situations, a shorter, faster bow might suit some folks better.....Take Care.....Jim


All very good points, Jim!

Only thing I would caution about is for "most" compound finger-shooters not to get too caught-up (or put too much stock) in what bow a World-Class or Champion-level finger shooter shoots.....you and I both know that Brian Goza could likely win IBO Nationals with ANY bow he chose to shoot! 

However, for the "average" archer wanting to get into shooting a compound bow with fingers, he would greatly benefit from shooting a bow that was truely designed to be "finger-friendly"......would you agree with that? :darkbeer:


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## TexasGuy (Jan 27, 2005)

AKRuss said:


> Another interesting dichotomy of what makes a finger bow. I'm now in the short bow and cams school of thought. However, I seem to prefer bows with a 42" ATA and draw with 3 fingers but loose with 2 (drop my pointer at anchor - actually it sort of pops out). I've shot bows as short as 39" ATA but they're just not long enough for me. I'm going to try a Drenalin LD and see if it's OK for a hunting bow but I have my doubts, although I'd love a really light bow for cruising through the woods. I know a lot of guys are shooting super short ATA bows with fingers. It's really a personal preference. One man's castle and all that ...
> 
> I setup and shot my 2005 ProTec with XT4000 limbs and cam 1/2 last night. It has a generous 45" ATA and is a pleasure to draw. However, when I let go of the string there's lots of "swishing" noise and vibration which seems to be the price of the long ATA. The bow is right on specs, the cams are tuned perfectly, and I have two catwhiskers on the string. I may try a string stop or even, gasp, wheels. If you're into long ATAs, try shooting a Hoyt Vantage to see what a vibration free bow is really about.



Totally agree about the Hoyt's, Russ! 

I ALMOST ordered a Hoyt Vantage LTD last week! 

But then I decided to go the Barnesdale/Apex custom route I posted about earlier today..... :darkbeer:


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

TexasGuy said:


> All very good points, Jim!
> 
> Only thing I would caution about is for "most" compound finger-shooters not to get too caught-up (or put too much stock) in what bow a World-Class or Champion-level finger shooter shoots.....you and I both know that Brian Goza could likely win IBO Nationals with ANY bow he chose to shoot!
> 
> However, for the "average" archer wanting to get into shooting a compound bow with fingers, he would greatly benefit from shooting a bow that was truely designed to be "finger-friendly"......would you agree with that? :darkbeer:


....Texas Guy....First, I wanted to make sure that I noted to You that I wasnt trying to come off like I was argueing, or trying to contradict Your post, after I read what I wrote, I thought to myself that it looked/read that way...I was thinking, "Boy, that post reads kinda snappy"....Which wasnt my intentons, if You took it that way...Was just using those two short bows/Finger shooters as examples of how short an Archer can go, and still shoot well, or at least, good enough?...I also agree that the longer ATA, higher brace bows, with wheels, or a mild cam are going to be a much better choice for most Finger shooters, and maybe an absolute must-have for someone that is just starting out...Arrow speed doesnt mean squat if the arrows arent in the bullseye....My draw length is about 28", and I have small fingers, both of which add up to being able to shoot shorter bows with less finger pinch,( I also drop my ring finger at anchor) as of right now, I've settled into 40"-42" bows, with 8"-8 1/2" brace heights as an ideal compromise of ATA, and brace height that works for Me...If I ever get serious about shooting Spots, I'll probably end up back in the 42"-46" ATA range, and not care what the brace height is...L.O.L....Might have to find myself an old Hoyt Pro Vantage, or get some longer limbs for my Pro Elite, or Barnsdale bow...Take Care!.........Jim


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## HighCountry46 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ive found I can shoot a 37" ata quite well. The paralell limbs do act (pinch) similar to a less paralell limb design of the longer ata bows MY HCA Supreme Pro feels less pinchy than my 08 Connie. I do find i struggle somewhat with the harshness of the more aggressive feel of todays bianary cams Im going to run a 2010 Athens Exceed this year. Its a 37" ata bow also but the draw curve is so much smoother than any other bow ive shot except wheels.bows.


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## ceebee (Dec 3, 2002)

I have a Hoyt Aspen and a couple of others all long a2a. The best shooting bow I have ever owned is my Merlin XT. It is thirty eight a2a and the cams took a little getting used to but it shoots so good!!! I shoot it at twenty seven and three quarters with no finger problems. So don't rule out all short bows.
Charlie


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## wags2 (Jan 26, 2009)

Well, I wasn't trying to start a debate about what length bow is better for finger shooting. I was curious to see if anyone was shooting shorter bows with any success. I have shot fingers for 22 years or so and have been playing with a release off and on the last year. I typically shoot a bow in the 38" inch range but blew a limb on it a couple of months ago. It was a hoyt striker that I put a martin mpro cam and idler on. It was a great shooting bow and fit me perfect. My Oneida is a great finger bow and easy to work on and tune. I have shoot it as my main bow for a few months now and enjoy it a lot but was really suprised about the whisper creek.


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## wags2 (Jan 26, 2009)

By the way if anyone has any hoyt powerglass limbs laying around I would be interested.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

ceebee said:


> I have a Hoyt Aspen and a couple of others all long a2a. The best shooting bow I have ever owned is my Merlin XT. It is thirty eight a2a and the cams took a little getting used to but it shoots so good!!! I shoot it at twenty seven and three quarters with no finger problems. So don't rule out all short bows.
> Charlie


........Charlie!.....I've been saying for almost two years how nice the Merlin XT is !....I see on the General Archery board where folks are looking for a longer ATA parallel limb bow, with a decent brace height, but still having good speed, and good manners at the shot...The XT isnt as parallel limbed as some bows are, I call it "Semi-Parallel", but it is a seriously good shooting all-around type bow...The Viper cams on mine draw quite a bit similar to Hoyt's Spirals, maybe a tad bit smooter, and the Viper cam will go from 55% let-off, to 65% let-off...I think that Merlin was a bit early with the release of this bow...It would probably sell better now, than it did in '06 when it was introduced...I had a limb problem, that was my fault, and Kevin Speckman fixed me up in a few weeks time, with a brand new set of limbs, at a FREAKISHLY low price.....I have been cruising the Classifieds on here, and Ebay, looking for a Max 2000, or a Supernova.....I need another bow like I need another hole in my head, but I figured that it would be nice to get a Merlin that was more in line with what I want for a Finger shooting bow....SORRY TO HI-JACK THIS THREAD!.......Jim


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## Fingerdog56 (Sep 21, 2009)

*How short?*

:darkbeer:Wags, I've been asking myself sorta that same question for about 6 months now. When I quit shooting in '96, the shortest bow in my 'arsenal' was 44", and that was my IBO/ASA setup. My marked ydge stuff were all PV's @ 47 1/2", and that extra 3 1/2" was worth about 10 pts on a field rnd. For me, the longer ATA made a BIG difference in accuracy. That being said, I have a Contender due here the end of Jan., and I guess I'll find out first-hand what all this "short A/A w/cams" is all about. AKRuss, I may need to pick your brain on set-up and shot process, 'cause I lived on round wheels for 10 years. Oh, and if you ever feel the need to part with that Pro-Tec, I'll give you top dollar+ for it....


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## AKRuss (Jan 10, 2003)

Fingerdog56, I wish you luck with the Contender. I've been thinking of getting one myself. I just put the longer XT4000 limbs back on my Safari ProTec and set it back up. It has the Cam 1/2 cams which give a 45 3/8" ATA and 8 1/2" BH. It seemed pretty noisey, even with catwhiskers at 1/4 positions so added another catwhisker to the lower end at the 1/3 position and things quieted down. It's shooting pretty good and I don't think I'll be trading it off anytime soon. I've been thinking of putting on AccuWheels out of curiousity but am not sure what that would do to the draw weight. Plus I'd have to buy the wheels and make the string and cables. I've always thought the Hoyt Safari bows were the best looking of any they made.


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## Fingerdog56 (Sep 21, 2009)

*Accu-Wheels*

Russ; From what I've been told, the main positive aspect of the Cam 1/2 system is the ability to shoot against the wall, and have minor DL variations have a negligible effect on arrow point of impact. Accu-wheels, being a binary system, will react similarly to DL changes as the old stuff. I've only shot a few arrows from an Accu-wheel, but my impression was it had a much shorter valley than the old E-wheel. It might work OK indoors, but all those outdoor variables that cause DL changes would sure bite ME in the butt. I shot the old E-wheel better than the cam(s), and I shot the Pro-wheel better than the E-wheel. That 1" valley on the Pro-wheel let me get away with a whole lot of crap, form-wise. Oh, and I think wheels require a higher deflection (weaker) limb than the cams; about 7-8 lbs.:darkbeer:


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## Fingerdog56 (Sep 21, 2009)

*Accu-Wheels*

Russ; I had that wrong on the weight change from wheeels to cams, you;ll LOSE weight going from a cam & 1/2 to an accuwheel.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

Fingerdog56 said:


> Russ; I had that wrong on the weight change from wheeels to cams, you;ll LOSE weight going from a cam & 1/2 to an accuwheel.


......Fingerdog56........Are You sure about that ??...Hoyt told Me that if my limb deflection is 76 with C-2 cams,(max draw weight is approx. 61#) then if I put Accuwheels on these same limbs that the max draw weight would go up to 70 plus pounds....The larger, more aggressive lobes of the cams put more leverage on the limbs, as the bow is drawn back, which makes it easier to bend the limbs..As it was explained to me, unless I was confused myself??...L.O.L....Which is something that has happened before!.....L.O.L....Take care......Jim


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## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

*Lose?*

You will lose weight anytime you go from a round profile wheel to ANY cam that is not round so when you go the other way, pounds go up. I put round wheels on a cam 1/2 limbed bow. It wasnt a problem getting the weight range but it was very sensitive to the cable length. A tad short or a tad long made a huge difference in the poundage the bow produced.


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

IBBW said:


> You will lose weight anytime you go from a round profile wheel to ANY cam that is not round so when you go the other way, pounds go up. I put round wheels on a cam 1/2 limbed bow. It wasnt a problem getting the weight range but it was very sensitive to the cable length. A tad short or a tad long made a huge difference in the poundage the bow produced.


.....IBBW....I had kicked around the idea of putting Accuwheels on my Pro Elite...Hoyt told me that at 76 deflection, I'd end up at a max. draw weight in the upper 70 pound range....Maybe even could end up at around 80# draw weight!..L.O.L...Sooo....I didnt do it.....The LX Pro limbs that I have are numbered at either 44, or 46 deflection (I cant remember, I'm at work)....And these limbs maxed at 52#, with #2 Accuwheels on the Pro Elite....I wouldnt mind a set of 50-52 deflection XT-3000 limbs, to put on the Pro Elite, and see how it shoots with Accuwheels on it....Jim


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## Fingerdog56 (Sep 21, 2009)

Nope; I was going off memory of the old stuff on the first post, then thought maybe this new stuff is different, so I asked a local shop guy, and then made that second post. It sounds like you've got it straight though, so "Disregard last transmission". Sorry about the bad info, I'll be more careful next time.


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## minnie3 (Jul 28, 2009)

re- short bow for fingers

33 3/4'' hoyt rintec xl @ 30# but at 25'' draw with very small fingers and no sights


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## BowPilot (Sep 14, 2008)

I shoot an HCA PL28 Mag with fingers. It is 28"ATA. I practiced and practiced and practiced and was shooting consistently about 5-6" groups. 

Frustrated with that, I tried a release and hated it. Felt "disconnected" I tried different arrows, different rests...no improvement

Finally I found my problem. On this board I read and read and read and came to the conclusion that, when I was "aiming", I was focusing on the sight pin, much like you would a handgun. I have shot handguns "combat mode" for many years and that's how you get consistent and fast. Not so much Archery, I have found out.

So, I retrained myself, and it was hard, still is, to visually bore a hole in the target, let the pin float around and release smoothly and follow through. I really have to concentrate on where to focus but it's gotten easier with time. Wow, the improvement was astounding as my arrows now go into 2"-3" groups consistently. And I shoot with a glove, I know, completely against conventional wisdom, but it works for me.

I am strictly a hunter and shoot to hunt not compete, and that 28" ATA is really appreciated from a tree stand or from the ground.


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