# After hunting with a rock climbing harness.



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

After hunting a few times with a rock climbing harness, would you ever consider going back to a 4 point harness. If so Why? Lets try to keep responses to this, to those who have actually used a R?C harness.
In your opinion what are the pros and cons.


----------



## BvrHunter (Apr 8, 2010)

I made the switch at the beginning of last years season and have no wants to ever go back to a 4 point harness at this time. Here are some of my reasons - 


1.Easy to put on and take off
2.So comfortable in the stand that I forget I have it on
3.The thought of facing the tree in the event of a fall
4.Less stress on my femoral arties if I did have to hang for a length of time
5.Being held by the hips instead of the back of my neck like a momma cat hold a kitten. 
6.Ease of use with my linemans belt


----------



## Hoyt (Jul 22, 2003)

I switched to a Black Diamond Couloir and used it the whole season last yr. Would never go back. My only two concerns if I should need it are will I be able to have children and a right arm.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

No way I'd ever go back.


----------



## Ricky56 (Mar 29, 2011)

Safest setup for us treestand hunters! I will never go back.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Did you guys all start out with a R/C harness? Did you use a 4 point first?


----------



## stevewes2004 (Jan 12, 2010)

I used a 4 point harness up until 2011, then switched to the R/C harness. I'll never go back, and I agree with what BvrHunter said below:



BvrHunter said:


> 1.Easy to put on and take off
> 2.So comfortable in the stand that I forget I have it on
> 3.The thought of facing the tree in the event of a fall
> 4.Less stress on my femoral arties if I did have to hang for a length of time
> ...


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

I switched to a rock climbing harness 2 years ago after several years messing around with a HSS vest and the cheap ones that come with the stands. I have no plans on switching back, however, instill haven't figured out a way to use it as a linesman belt. I have noticed that the Muddy harnesses have come way down in price, $80 at my local Dick's Sporting Goods, and I have recommended it to friends not comfortable with the switch to a rock harness. I will be sticking with my rock climbing harness system however.


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

BvrHunter said:


> 6.Ease of use with my linemans belt


Can you share a picture if your linesman belt setup?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I use mine as a linemans belt only connected in the front instead of the sides. Just put a choker line around the tree and attach to the prusik. This allows me to work of both sides of the rope,. To me that is a little easier than cranking in steps between 2 lines.


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

thirdhandman said:


> I use mine as a linemans belt only connected in the front instead of the sides. Just put a choker line around the tree and attach to the prusik. This allows me to work of both sides of the rope,. To me that is a little easier than cranking in steps between 2 lines.


How stable is this? It seems like you wouldn't be as stable as you would in a traditional belt setup.


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

Started with a freebie harness that came with a stand, switched to a rock climbing harness and wont be switching back.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

When you have one foot on each side of the tree it isn't a problem for this old man at all. Your feet keep you stable as you want or need when you lean back.


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

thirdhandman said:


> When you have one foot on each side of the tree it isn't a problem for this old man at all. Your feet keep you stable as you want or need when you lean back.


Ok, thanks. I will give it a **** when I hang a stand tomorrow.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

escout402 said:


> Can you share a picture if your linesman belt setup?


I threaded the waist belt through a length of 2" tubular webbing and then threaded a 30" looped sling through the 2" webbing. Everything is neat and out of the way. I can also remove the sling when not needed. I've used it a lot in the past few weeks and it works great.


----------



## obx (Apr 20, 2011)

You can use with a linesmans belt by attaching to the front of the harness, but it is a little cumbersome. Not being attached at the hips,the linesman belt has to be lifted over steps. I use mine in conjunction with a Treehopper Linesmans Belt. Do a web search for Treehopper.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

houser52 said:


> I threaded the waist belt through a length of 2" tubular webbing and then threaded a 30" looped sling through the 2" webbing. Everything is neat and out of the way. I can also remove the sling when not needed. I've used it a lot in the past few weeks and it works great.


While we are on the subject of what is hard to do and not. In the above picture there is a bridge between the waist belt and leg loops. I found this gets in the way when taking a wizz. That is not the case with the Black Diamond Vario Speed harness. Also the Belay loop is on top giving even more room and lowering the center of gravity slightly.


----------



## Mr. Man (Sep 19, 2011)

thirdhandman said:


> Did you guys all start out with a R/C harness? Did you use a 4 point first?


My first safety harness was the old belt that looped around your waist. I fell one time. It was uncomfortable, but I was still in one piece. Next was the full body harness. I despise those things. Now I use a rock climbing harness and it's all I will ever use. I'd rather use the old waist strap again than a full body harness.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

I started with a safety belt. Moved onto a 4 point "treestand" harness and hated everything about it. I then went for a 4 year run of no safety restraint at all. Stumbled onto one of these threads last year and bought HSS tree rope and ABC r/c harness. BEST thing I've purchased for hunting in a long time (possibly ever). NEVER going back to a "treestand" harness.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

It seems odd that so many have made the change after trying a 4 point and haven't gone back. If only more people would listen and at least try it.


----------



## fish4_5 (Sep 8, 2013)

This morning was my first sit with a climbing harness and I don't see me every going away from it. I went for years without wearing any safety harness at all, and to prove my ignorance I obviously knew the dangers that came with that choice because I always made my wife wear her safety harness when she sat with me. Anyways, there is absolutely nothing uncomfortable or in the way with my harness. I always resisted the traditional harness because of lack of mobility and lack of comfort. All of those problems are solved with my Alpine Bod harness. Best money I have ever spent on hunting!


----------



## ArmedBarrister (Oct 4, 2011)

Started with an HSS ultra lite after years and years of no harness. I had previous experience with climbing harnesses in other applications, and I had serious doubts about the HSS harness system. I was immediately disappointed. After three years, I bought a used Black Diamond harness off of Craigslist. I'll never look back.


----------



## Illinois59 (Jan 12, 2009)

Jim, sell them in your booth!


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

Nothing is more comfortable, nonrestrictive, or as lite as the Summit SOP.

So I have no desire to try a rock harness or a harness that says Muddy on it 17 times.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Okie X: Quite obviously you have never tried hanging from a rock climbing harness. Probably haven't tried hanging totally suspended from the seat of the pants. Probably haven't weighed a R/C. Mine weighs less than a pound.
The post states, after trying a rock climbing harness, for a reason. If you haven't tried it, how could you possibly know?:set1_thinking:


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

I lived in NC for awhile Jim. Had many friends who were big into rock climbing and have first hand experience with rock climbing gear and harnesses. 

There was a video a few years back of a guy testing a few hunting harnesses by falling out a treestand. Some were described as very painful. But not the SOP. It came out on top.

So tell me Jim, you got any experience with the SOP? Probably not.


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

Bunch of threads on this topic lately Jim. Got plans for something?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Keith the inventor of the seat of the pants gave me a few of them over the years. And At the time I too thought they were the best thing since sliced bread. I also hung from them when teaching hunter safety. Had a student ask me about a what happens if you black out and fall from the stand. That got me to looking for something different. Seat of the pants is a good harness and can save a life but is not as light and comfortable as a R/C harness, especially when hanging from it. R/C harness pulls the leg straps away from the femoral artery so it doesn't need a suspension trauma strap.
While its nice to have known people who use rock climbing harnesses, you really need to try it for yourself before you can make an honest comparison. That is why this post says after you have used a R/C harness to hunt with.
So far the only negative response is from someone who hasn't tried one. Maybe you ought to try one just to make an honest comparison.
Comparing a 4 point harness to another 4 point harness for comfort and believing what one person says is not something I'm willing to do. I try things myself first. We never know who is behind the keyboard and what their agenda is. I do not sell any harnesses and have tried 25 different styles and brands at a minimum. My agenda is to try to help make hunters safer. Saving a few bucks is just icing on the cake.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

DaneHunter said:


> Bunch of threads on this topic lately Jim. Got plans for something?


I Thought about it a couple years ago. I'm too old to take that project on and do not have enough room in my booth to demonstrate my products and have people trying them out and hanging from them. If any body is wanting to get into a new business or take their harness sales to the next level this is it. Just need a booth with a solid anchor so you can hang 2 harnesses at the same time. Let the customer try hanging from both and then collect the money. The customer will sell them self.


----------



## Judgie (Oct 16, 2012)

I just decided to use my RC harness yesterday after finding it all packed up with a couple decenders. 
I forgot I even had them.
I will admit that I have not been using anything .


----------



## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

So when you use the RC type harness where does the tether go? Doesn't it get in the way being in the front?


----------



## huntingnwfl (Feb 4, 2008)

Are the full body kits any easier then the ones that go just around your waist and legs. Never thought about anything like this. They are way cheaper then a tree stand harness and has me thinking of something new.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

redruff said:


> So when you use the RC type harness where does the tether go? Doesn't it get in the way being in the front?


Mine runs under my right arm pit. I can turn every possible direction and the tether not get in the way. That was one of my biggest gripes with the 4 point harness, seems no matter what I did the tether restricted my draw.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

huntingnwfl said:


> Are the full body kits any easier then the ones that go just around your waist and legs. Never thought about anything like this. They are way cheaper then a tree stand harness and has me thinking of something new.


These R/C harnesses are way cheaper, easier to put on and take off, than the full body harness. Many threads on this subject but in short. Attach in font. Since 90% of treestand accidents happen while climbing in and out " facing the tree" it makes much more sense to be able to easily grab the tether and self rescue. R/C harnesses do not come with a suspension trauma strap because they do not cause suspension trauma like a 4 point harness can.


----------



## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

I have a HSS and swapped over to a Black Diamond Vario about 12 months ago, will never bother going back.
I have a second prussic loop below my tether for self rescue. Plus being much lighter, more comfortable and less restrictive.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Blackhawkhunter: How are you tethered to the tree?


----------



## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> Blackhawkhunter: How are you tethered to the tree?


Via the 1/2" orange static rope.


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

houser52: Where did you get that 30" load bearing sling with loops on both ends?
And what about that ABc belt? Is that part of the Black Diamond RC harness?
While I'm at it, I might as well inquire as to the lock mechanism in your photo that replaces a prussic knot.



houser52 said:


> I threaded the waist belt through a length of 2" tubular webbing and then threaded a 30" looped sling through the 2" webbing. Everything is neat and out of the way. I can also remove the sling when not needed. I've used it a lot in the past few weeks and it works great.
> 
> Your photo just gave me an idea relative to customizing my Guido's Web for safer (and easier usage.)


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

B-Limbs,
That sling (rabbit runner sling) came from TreeStuff.com
and made by Weaver. You can also get them from Blackjack Mountain Outfitters. 
The ABC belt is actually an ABC Guide Harness. I used it for illustration for another member that had asked about it. The harness I use most is a Misty Mountain Gym Dandy that is set up the exact same way with the linemans belt. 
The device you asked about that I use instead of a prusik on the linemans belt is a Ropeman 1 ascender. Works great and I can adjust it with one hand.


----------



## huntingnwfl (Feb 4, 2008)

Can you show a lay out of how you set it up and attach to the tree. If you can use a person doing it so you can explain it as they go.


----------



## ego260 (Dec 26, 2011)

I just bought a Black Diamond Alpine BOD harness. I hate wearing a jacket to walk into the stand, hate having to take the harness off in the stand to put it over my jacket, hate wearing a harness under a jacket, and I get really irritated when it gets in the way trying to draw my bow. I used a traditional around the waist for years until I tried the HSS Hybrid. I decided I liked the pockets so I kept using it. I think I'm going to attach the harness to my safe line and sit with it at waist level. Any body see any advantages to it being over your head vs waist level.


----------



## ngabowhunter (Mar 9, 2006)

thirdhandman said:


> While we are on the subject of what is hard to do and not. In the above picture there is a bridge between the waist belt and leg loops. I found this gets in the way when taking a wizz. That is not the case with the Black Diamond Vario Speed harness. Also the Belay loop is on top giving even more room and lowering the center of gravity slightly.


I just spread my legs and run it thru that big loop


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

On cold mornings, I don't believe I could do that. LOL


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

houser52 said:


> B-Limbs,
> That sling (rabbit runner sling) came from TreeStuff.com
> and made by Weaver. You can also get them from Blackjack Mountain Outfitters.
> The ABC belt is actually an ABC Guide Harness. I used it for illustration for another member that had asked about it. The harness I use most is a Misty Mountain Gym Dandy that is set up the exact same way with the linemans belt.
> The device you asked about that I use instead of a prusik on the linemans belt is a Ropeman 1 ascender. Works great and I can adjust it with one hand.


Thank you houser52!


----------



## ngabowhunter (Mar 9, 2006)

thirdhandman said:


> On cold mornings, I don't believe I could do that. LOL


Yea I hear ya, the more UA base layers the tougher it is. And I can't wait til the last second ether, sometime it takes a min.


----------



## itsashooter (Feb 20, 2004)

Marked


----------



## Barlow96 (Sep 24, 2014)

My work has allowed me to use my many different harnesses in rope situations. Even down to making my own harness from webbing. I had a hss and went to a muddy. I like my muddy, I could go to a rc harness but have really few points of why I do not want to use one. First the teather in the front is a no go. I don't face the tree when hunting. Next is if you fall out of the stand head first you may come out of the harness. Which is slim to none happening, but it can happen. 

The reason I like my muddy is, it is very easy to put on. Once I have it adjusted I don't have to mess with the legs , but During later season with thicker clothes I have to let the legs out some. It has clips on the top straps for my range finder like a teather. It has a linemen belt loops and I have the lineman belt and use it a lot hanging stands. I also took some small rope and made loops so I can hang my climbing sticks while going up the tree and put for sticks on the tree without coming back to the ground, while hanging sets. 

Oh and this is my first post. So don't bash me too hard. I am the new guy. Lol.


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> I have a HSS and swapped over to a Black Diamond Vario about 12 months ago, will never bother going back.
> I have a second prussic loop below my tether for self rescue.


Just curious, does your orange line go to the ground? And how is the 2nd prusik loop used for self-rescue?


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

thirdhandman said:


> On cold mornings, I don't believe I could do that. LOL





ngabowhunter said:


> I just spread my legs and run it thru that big loop


Thread is getting "entertaining" (but how true!) Add that to a Guido's Web (or saddle) and "peeing" becomes even more "complicated" (especially on cold mornings)

TIP: Just think of a "hot chick" before peeing. ~ LOL.


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

houser52 said:


> B-Limbs,
> That sling (rabbit runner sling) came from TreeStuff.com
> and made by Weaver. You can also get them from Blackjack Mountain Outfitters.
> The ABC belt is actually an ABC Guide Harness. I used it for illustration for another member that had asked about it. The harness I use most is a Misty Mountain Gym Dandy that is set up the exact same way with the linemans belt.
> The device you asked about that I use instead of a prusik on the linemans belt is a Ropeman 1 ascender. Works great and I can adjust it with one hand.


Spent some time searching TreeStuff.com, and can't find the rabbit runner you're referring to...


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Barlow96 said:


> My work has allowed me to use my many different harnesses in rope situations. Even down to making my own harness from webbing. I had a hss and went to a muddy. I like my muddy, I could go to a rc harness but have really few points of why I do not want to use one. First the teather in the front is a no go. I don't face the tree when hunting. Next is if you fall out of the stand head first you may come out of the harness. Which is slim to none happening, but it can happen.
> 
> The reason I like my muddy is, it is very easy to put on. Once I have it adjusted I don't have to mess with the legs , but During later season with thicker clothes I have to let the legs out some. It has clips on the top straps for my range finder like a teather. It has a linemen belt loops and I have the lineman belt and use it a lot hanging stands. I also took some small rope and made loops so I can hang my climbing sticks while going up the tree and put for sticks on the tree without coming back to the ground, while hanging sets.
> 
> Oh and this is my first post. So don't bash me too hard. I am the new guy. Lol.


Since this is your first post I will try to be nice. The title "After hunting with a rock climbing harness" I kindly ask only those who have hunted with both styles only reply. You clearly didn't hunt with a rock climbing harness or you would have known that the rope doesn't get in the way. Rock climbers fall head first sometimes 40' and don't fall out of their harness. If you had one on properly you would have realized that you will not slip out of it. You gave the same answers as all the others who use 4 point harnesses and made no mention of how it feels to hang in, which by the way is the main reason to wear one. Try hanging for a couple minutes with yours then try a rock climbing harness. After you try both I bet you change your mind.


----------



## Barlow96 (Sep 24, 2014)

thirdhandman said:


> Since this is your first post I will try to be nice. The title "After hunting with a rock climbing harness" I kindly ask only those who have hunted with both styles only reply. You clearly didn't hunt with a rock climbing harness or you would have known that the rope doesn't get in the way. Rock climbers fall head first sometimes 40' and don't fall out of their harness. If you had one on properly you would have realized that you will not slip out of it. You gave the same answers as all the others who use 4 point harnesses and made no mention of how it feels to hang in, which by the way is the main reason to wear one. Try hanging for a couple minutes with yours then try a rock climbing harness. After you try both I bet you change your mind.


I have done some hanging in rock climbing harness and webbing itself. I figure webbing by itself would be more uncomfortable than a safety harness. And webbing by itself is not that bad. I have been hundreds of feet off the ground in a harness for rescue type training. There is no way I would invert in a rock climbing harness. I would and have in a four point though. I have did enough repealing and work on a rope to know the rope always gets in the way when it's in front of you.

Also this all just my opion. I have used rope and harnesses in many different ways. And will take your advance and hang from my harness and see how it goes.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

BrokenLimbs said:


> Spent some time searching TreeStuff.com, and can't find the rabbit runner you're referring to...


https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=438

Here's another source for rabbit runners. 24", 36", 48"

http://shop.blackjackmountainoutfitters.com/BlueWater-Ropes-1-CLIMB-SPEC-RABBIT-RUNNER-7610.htm


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm doing my best to be nice but you still haven't hunted with a rock climbing harness or you would know that used properly, the rope does not get in the way period.






here is a guy hanging upside down doing about 40 mph. You still haven't compared hanging from a 4 point harness to a rock climbing harness. Curious what type of work do you do. There are different types of harnesses for all different types of work. 4 point harnesses are generally used where there are other workers available to help in a rescue. We are talking about working in a tree. I have yet to see a tree surgeon connect in a 4 point harness with the rope connected in the back.
Please before you try to tell us again that you think the rope gets in the way or hurts more, try a rock climbing harness in a hunting situation. Make the comparison then tell us what you found vs what you think. You may be surprised too.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

thirdhandman said:


> I'm doing my best to be nice but you still haven't hunted with a rock climbing harness or you would know that used properly, the rope does not get in the way period.
> View attachment 2051375
> here is a guy hanging upside down doing about 40 mph. You still haven't compared hanging from a 4 point harness to a rock climbing harness. Curious what type of work do you do. There are different types of harnesses for all different types of work. 4 point harnesses are generally used where there are other workers available to help in a rescue. We are talking about working in a tree. I have yet to see a tree surgeon connect in a 4 point harness with the rope connected in the back.
> Please before you try to tell us again that you think the rope gets in the way or hurts more, try a rock climbing harness in a hunting situation. Make the comparison then tell us what you found vs what you think. You may be surprised too.


Couldn't agree more, the tether NOT being in my way all the time is exactly why I will continue to use a RC harness. I was a skeptic too but after practicing in the off season with mine I couldn't believe what I've been missing.


----------



## Barlow96 (Sep 24, 2014)

thirdhandman said:


> I'm doing my best to be nice but you still haven't hunted with a rock climbing harness or you would know that used properly, the rope does not get in the way period.
> View attachment 2051375
> here is a guy hanging upside down doing about 40 mph. You still haven't compared hanging from a 4 point harness to a rock climbing harness. Curious what type of work do you do. There are different types of harnesses for all different types of work. 4 point harnesses are generally used where there are other workers available to help in a rescue. We are talking about working in a tree. I have yet to see a tree surgeon connect in a 4 point harness with the rope connected in the back. Please before you try to tell us again that you think the rope gets in the way or hurts more, try a rock climbing harness in a hunting situation. Make the comparison then tell us what you found vs what you think. You may be surprised too.


I would never connect to my back to do work or get someone else down. When hunting the only thing I need a harness to do is catch me so I can regroup and get down the tree or back in my stand. It's that simple. 

Also the guy in the pic is not fully vertical. He has the upper body strength to keep bent. 

I am a fireman and I spend a hour ,sometimes more a month on a rope for training purposes. We have several different type harnesses. Sometimes we just use a 20ft piece of webbing and make our own harnesses.

I am done with this until I try you therory and I will get back to you then.


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

houser52 said:


> https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=438
> 
> Here's another source for rabbit runners. 24", 36", 48"
> 
> http://shop.blackjackmountainoutfitters.com/BlueWater-Ropes-1-CLIMB-SPEC-RABBIT-RUNNER-7610.htm


Thanks again houser52.


----------



## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

TC260 said:


> Just curious, does your orange line go to the ground? And how is the 2nd prusik loop used for self-rescue?


Yes the orange static line goes right to the ground, I often use it to pull my pack up.
The second prussic loop can be pushed down the line a bit then you can put a foot in it and take the weight then sliding the tether prussic down and so on.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Barlow96 said:


> I would never connect to my back to do work or get someone else down. When hunting the only thing I need a harness to do is catch me so I can regroup and get down the tree or back in my stand. It's that simple.
> 
> Also the guy in the pic is not fully vertical. He has the upper body strength to keep bent.
> 
> ...


Thanks Barlow.:focus:


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> Yes the orange static line goes right to the ground, I often use it to pull my pack up.
> The second prussic loop can be pushed down the line a bit then you can put a foot in it and take the weight then sliding the tether prussic down and so on.


I'm sorry but I don't see how you are connected to the tree in the picture. It looks like you are connected to the orange rope going to the ground with a second rope connected to assist going down. Doesn't show how or where your tied to the tree. This is definitely different than anything I've used.


----------



## MNDan (Nov 24, 2004)

Would a RC harness work if I'm using a Heater Body Suit? I always have my SOP under my Heater Body Suit with the strap coming out of my "neckhole". With a RC harness wouldn't things get all upside down if I fell out with the HBS on?


----------



## BvrHunter (Apr 8, 2010)

houser52 said:


> I threaded the waist belt through a length of 2" tubular webbing and then threaded a 30" looped sling through the 2" webbing. Everything is neat and out of the way. I can also remove the sling when not needed. I've used it a lot in the past few weeks and it works great.


Wow thanks a ton for posting this up Houser! I will be picking up that Ropeman Ascender immediately


----------



## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> I'm sorry but I don't see how you are connected to the tree in the picture. It looks like you are connected to the orange rope going to the ground with a second rope connected to assist going down. Doesn't show how or where your tied to the tree. This is definitely different than anything I've used.


The orange static line has a figure eight loop tied of at the attachment end, it's just passed around the tree and the line passed through it twice. My prussic knot is hard up on the static line against the figure eight loop. 
In the pic I'm in a treewalker stand facing the tree.

If others are doing it differently I am happy to learn!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

MNDan said:


> Would a RC harness work if I'm using a Heater Body Suit? I always have my SOP under my Heater Body Suit with the strap coming out of my "neckhole". With a RC harness wouldn't things get all upside down if I fell out with the HBS on?


That is a good question Dan: I haven't tried it with the hbs. I would* think* that if you ran it tether from the belay loop, under your arm and out the arm hole attached to the tree should be fine. Like I said I haven tried it. Try it at home and let us know your findings.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> The orange static line has a figure eight loop tied of at the attachment end, it's just passed around the tree and the line passed through it twice. My prussic knot is hard up on the static line against the figure eight loop.
> In the pic I'm in a treewalker stand facing the tree.
> 
> If others are doing it differently I am happy to learn!


The last sentence changed everything. I didn't realize you were facing the tree. Now it makes sense to me.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

BrokenLimbs said:


> Thread is getting "entertaining" (but how true!) Add that to a Guido's Web (or saddle) and "peeing" becomes even more "complicated" (especially on cold mornings)
> 
> TIP: Just think of a "hot chick" before peeing. ~ LOL.


LOL this is great! Not to get off topic, but I did take a leak from the web while wearing my RC harness underneath. Took a few minutes thinking on how to pull that stunt off HAHA. Was actually easier than I thought it would be! But like mentioned before, cold morning may be....ummm....a little more complicated :wink:


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

Barlow96 said:


> I have done some hanging in rock climbing harness and webbing itself. I figure webbing by itself would be more uncomfortable than a safety harness. And webbing by itself is not that bad. I have been hundreds of feet off the ground in a harness for rescue type training. There is no way I would invert in a rock climbing harness. I would and have in a four point though. I have did enough repealing and work on a rope to know the rope always gets in the way when it's in front of you.
> 
> Also this all just my opion. I have used rope and harnesses in many different ways. And will take your advance and hang from my harness and see how it goes.


Barlow, as far as traditional hunting harnesses go, the Muddy is probably the best one out there, and the one I would choose if I wasn't completely convinced that a rock harness is the best option. This video, which was made by an AT member, shows the same identical setup that I use. If you watch the video, it will clearly show you how the rope is never in your way, and in fact you are much less restricted than with a traditional 4 point harness. If you have a total stand failure, like the cables breaking, you could be hanging for awhile. In a 4 point harness you can die from suspension trauma. In fact, I would say the odds of dying from suspension trauma are greater than the chances of falling out of a rock harness. Good luck either way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mcEgEx-VhY&app=desktop


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

flinginairos said:


> LOL this is great! Not to get off topic, but I did take a leak from the web while wearing my RC harness underneath. Took a few minutes thinking on how to pull that stunt off HAHA. Was actually easier than I thought it would be! But like mentioned before, cold morning may be....ummm....a little more complicated :wink:


Get yourself some adult diapers, you will be nice and warm for a few minutes after taking a piss!


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

houser52 said:


> I threaded the waist belt through a length of 2" tubular webbing and then threaded a 30" looped sling through the 2" webbing. Everything is neat and out of the way. I can also remove the sling when not needed. I've used it a lot in the past few weeks and it works great.


Are you using a Ropeman?


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> Yes the orange static line goes right to the ground, I often use it to pull my pack up.
> The second prussic loop can be pushed down the line a bit then you can put a foot in it and take the weight then sliding the tether prussic down and so on.


I see. Just throwing this out as an idea, when I worked as an arborist I often used a munter hitch for descending out of a tree to reduce wear on the friction knot. So if you needed a self-rescue so to speak, tie the munter onto the carabiner with the orange line and go to the ground in one shot so there wouldn't be a need to carry a second prussic loop. The munter is the back-up for the main prussic.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

escout402 said:


> Get yourself some adult diapers, you will be nice and warm for a few minutes after taking a piss!


Hey now that's an idea!! Hahaha


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

TheTracker said:


> Are you using a Ropeman?


Yes, it's a Ropeman 1 that I use on my lineman's belt. It makes one hand adjustments very easy. 

I actually have 2 lineman's ropes with a Ropeman to use with my harness, one long and one short. While hanging sticks, if I come to a limb and can't pass it without unhooking, I just throw the longer rope above the limb and hook up, unhook the shorter rope, then keep going up. That way I'm never disconnected from the tree.

To add- When working, I tie a simple stopper knot in the loose end of the rope fairly close to the Ropeman so I can't let out too much slack. The knot won't pass through the Ropeman which works as a back up.

I also keep a Ropeman 1 in my pack or my harness just in case I might need it for something.


----------



## Luke M (Aug 24, 2012)

I have thought about useing one instead of my current, I just cant seem to figgure out the style that should be used. Any recomendations for a taller guy (6'2")? I have seen both the style that is waist and legs but also have seen that coupled with a section that goes over the shoulders too.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

houser52 said:


> Yes, it's a Ropeman 1 that I use on my lineman's belt. It makes one hand adjustments very easy.
> 
> I actually have 2 lineman's ropes with a Ropeman to use with my harness, one long and one short. While hanging sticks, if I come to a limb and can't pass it without unhooking, I just throw the longer rope above the limb and hook up, unhook the shorter rope, then keep going up. That way I'm never disconnected from the tree.
> 
> ...


I use a Ropeman as well. Handy little device to have for sure!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Luke M said:


> I have thought about useing one instead of my current, I just cant seem to figgure out the style that should be used. Any recomendations for a taller guy (6'2")? I have seen both the style that is waist and legs but also have seen that coupled with a section that goes over the shoulders too.


Luke the Black diamond vario speed harness would do you well. None of us that I know of see a need for the shoulder harness. I have hung up side down on purpose and will not slip out.


----------



## Luke M (Aug 24, 2012)

thirdhandman said:


> Luke the Black diamond vario speed harness would do you well. None of us that I know of see a need for the shoulder harness. I have hung up side down on purpose and will not slip out.


Thank you! They arent too bad in price either!


----------



## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

TC260 said:


> I see. Just throwing this out as an idea, when I worked as an arborist I often used a munter hitch for descending out of a tree to reduce wear on the friction knot. So if you needed a self-rescue so to speak, tie the munter onto the carabiner with the orange line and go to the ground in one shot so there wouldn't be a need to carry a second prussic loop. The munter is the back-up for the main prussic.


Thanks I will look at that.


----------



## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

thirdhandman said:


> Luke the Black diamond vario speed harness would do you well. None of us that I know of see a need for the shoulder harness. I have hung up side down on purpose and will not slip out.


Agreed. Ive done a lot of testing with mine and there is no comparison between hanging fron both styles. I can honestly say that if you hunt alone a full harness can cause you to die even if it stops you from falling. Self rescue is the important thing here and a rock climbing harness gives you the best chance to self rescue by far. Plus you can hang for a long time from them and be facing the tree. The question i get asked the most is doesnt the tie off get in the way being hooked up in front. Until i used and tested one for myself i would have thought so to but it is a non factor and is not in your way at all if hooked up correctly.


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

ego260 said:


> I just bought a Black Diamond Alpine BOD harness. I hate wearing a jacket to walk into the stand, hate having to take the harness off in the stand to put it over my jacket, hate wearing a harness under a jacket, and I get really irritated when it gets in the way trying to draw my bow. I used a traditional around the waist for years until I tried the HSS Hybrid. I decided I liked the pockets so I kept using it. I think I'm going to attach the harness to my safe line and sit with it at waist level. Any body see any advantages to it being over your head vs waist level.



You want to keep the life line as high as you can while seated and still be comfortable so if you fall, the distance between the life line prussik and the harness is the shortest it can be. If you keep the lifeline at your waist and then fall, you will create a ton of downward momentum because you will be falling a greater distance and you do not want that. You want to be caught right away in the shortest distance possible. There are you tube videos showing the amount of force created from, for example, a one foot fall, two foot fall etc. with a given weight to demonstrate the different amount of force generated depending on the distance dropped. A couple of feet makes a huge difference in the amount of force generated in a fall.

For what its worth, tying in to a lifeline above your head is not a problem. You will find that the line going from the rc harness to the life line can simply sit under and behind your arm pit and you will not even know it is there (at least that is the way I do it,* if that is wrong, someone chime in and correct me*). Easy to stand and easy to sit.

The truth is I do not even know I have the rc harness on it is so light weight and comfortable, best idea ever learned on Archery Talk in my opinion.


----------



## Claydoh (Feb 15, 2011)

I use a daisy chain (webbing loops sewn together) so I can clip in at various points to change length. I have mine pass under my left arm and go up behind me. Not issue there. In a fall, I would be spun toward my left and my arm would be clear. It's a fall, they are all ugly.


----------



## PASSTHROUGH (May 21, 2002)

OK..I see there are a few non-users asking questions....

First, I have no experience with rock climbing harnesses. I have used the old waist belt safety belts and the more current 4 point harness systems for tree stand hunting. I am interested in a less bulky, less cumbersome way of tethering myself to a tree. To me the front connection doesn't seem to be and issue. It doesn't seem like it would require much slack to be able to move freely in the stand, considering we are talking about platforms that are typically less than 4 square feet. My question is, how does someone like me learn to use it properly?? Just watch vids on youtube?? Is it that easy??

I also belong to a metro deer management group. We currently have a 4 point requirement. We get a lot of questions about using rock climbing harnesses. We currently don't allow use of them. My thoughts are that in the hands of someone familiar with the gear, probably no issues. But, if we opened it up to using rock climbing harnesses, and average guy (someone like me that has no experience with them) goes out and buys one a week before the hunt, could he (avg guy) be more likely to get injured in a fall than if he was using his 4 point harness?? If they are easy to use in the hands of beginners, it might be worth having the discussion about maybe allowing them someday. The thing that worried me the most was the turning upside down thing. But if that is not really a risk of slipping out of the harness, might be worth discussing.

I have heard the stories about suspension trauma and pondered the idea of hanging from my harness a number of times. It never sounds appealing.



In and For Christ,
Glen


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Appreciate your honesty and not giving arguments without trying. I'll try to answer all as simply as I can and get back on topic.
The front connection. I just attach to the belay loop above the navel. Leave maybe 6" slack at most and run the line under my right arm pit and attach at head height. When turning to the left it takes up the slack. When standing it actually droops down some and when turning right it droops more. Attached this way you could not fall less than 6" below the seat itself. Its that easy. 
Try taking a folding chair and set it next to a tree. Sit down and attach the way I said and stand, turn etc. You will see it is that easy.
As far as not being allowed is concerned. The ones writing the rules want some protection and the main concern is the use of a harness. If they tried a R/C harness they may change their mind. I had a discussion with one of the representatives from OSHA last month. He agreed to try a RCH. He called Saturday and thanked me. He too is now a convert.
Hope that helps you my friend.:focus:


----------



## Bob H in NH (Aug 20, 2002)

This has been a very interesting read. I use a SOP and my wife a chest harness, she complains about being restricted when turning to the sides to shoot. This may be a good solution!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Bob H: Seat of the pants is a good harness. I've used a few over the years. I do like the black diamond vario speed harness much better. Your wife's complaints will go away. Well, for the harness anyway. :set1_rolf2:


----------



## ezmorningrebel (Dec 27, 2012)

Claydoh said:


> I use a daisy chain (webbing loops sewn together) so I can clip in at various points to change length. I have mine pass under my left arm and go up behind me. Not issue there. In a fall, I would be spun toward my left and my arm would be clear. It's a fall, they are all ugly.


careful with those daisy chains. a lot of times the full load bearing is only if you attach to the ends. the sewn chain loop sections have a dramatically lower load rating.


----------



## schlep1967 (Feb 2, 2005)

I bought one of the 20feetup harnesses just before they went out of business. Put it on the other day to go hang a stand. When I got back I put my pack and other goodies away and went into the house to change clothes for an event I had to go to. That is when I realized I still had my harness on. I would never go back to the full harness. And if I had to go to a regular rock harness I would be attaching magnets to the harness and the strap just like the 20feetup is. This takes the strap around your back at waist height and keeps it out of your way.


----------



## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

I have been bad and was not wearing my full body harness with my climber because it was cumbersome in the confined space of my climber. I tried a RC style harness yesterday and I cannot see any reason to go back to the full body harness. I even lowered the stand and snugged up the tether and I was fine. This is a no brainer.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Daisy Chain is the first one and could possibly not hold if clipped into loops other than the ends. The second one is a nylon loop chain(anchor chain) with each individual loop sewn together to form a chain. Each loop is full weight bearing.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> Daisy Chain is the first one and could possibly not hold if clipped into loops other than the ends. The second one is a nylon loop chain(anchor chain) with each individual loop sewn together to form a chain. Each loop is full weight bearing.


I'm not sure either of those two daisy chains will sustain a fall of "bowhunter distance" - weight bearing is a lot different than fall ratings. Based on the info I got from the rock climbing forums, they are designed to hold a weight only, a fall would most likely rip the stitches, based on their experience and online videos I've seen (Beal I think). Plus your jewels would most likely wind up down around your ankles. Good luck.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Collins- I was just posting the info that described the differences between the two. I don't use either one. 

The members on the Rock Climbing forums are a friendly bunch of people ain't they? Lol


----------



## Hoyt (Jul 22, 2003)

I used a Daisy Chain for a while. When using one be sure when you connect through a loop to go back through the main loop also.

What concerns me with a fall is damage to my right shoulder. My main tether goes from front around right side of waist and up behind my back to tree rope. On a fall the sudden impact would pull the tether tight under my right armpit while at the same time jerking my body to the right...seems to me like anyway.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Okie X said:


> I lived in NC for awhile Jim. Had many friends who were big into rock climbing and have first hand experience with rock climbing gear and harnesses.
> 
> There was a video a few years back of a guy testing a few hunting harnesses by falling out a treestand. Some were described as very painful. But not the SOP. It came out on top.
> 
> So tell me Jim, you got any experience with the SOP? Probably not.


2 words

Dynamic Rope


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Barlow96 said:


> My work has allowed me to use my many different harnesses in rope situations. Even down to making my own harness from webbing. I had a hss and went to a muddy. I like my muddy, I could go to a rc harness but have really few points of why I do not want to use one. First the teather in the front is a no go. I don't face the tree when hunting. Next is if you fall out of the stand head first you may come out of the harness. Which is slim to none happening, but it can happen.
> 
> The reason I like my muddy is, it is very easy to put on. Once I have it adjusted I don't have to mess with the legs , but During later season with thicker clothes I have to let the legs out some. It has clips on the top straps for my range finder like a teather. It has a linemen belt loops and I have the lineman belt and use it a lot hanging stands. I also took some small rope and made loops so I can hang my climbing sticks while going up the tree and put for sticks on the tree without coming back to the ground, while hanging sets.
> 
> Oh and this is my first post. So don't bash me too hard. I am the new guy. Lol.


Lmfao ive fell off of climbing walls every way possible and you are not slipping out of a rc harness thats on correctly. Your paranoid bro.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Barlow96 said:


> I have done some hanging in rock climbing harness and webbing itself. I figure webbing by itself would be more uncomfortable than a safety harness. And webbing by itself is not that bad. I have been hundreds of feet off the ground in a harness for rescue type training. There is no way I would invert in a rock climbing harness. I would and have in a four point though. I have did enough repealing and work on a rope to know the rope always gets in the way when it's in front of you.
> 
> Also this all just my opion. I have used rope and harnesses in many different ways. And will take your advance and hang from my harness and see how it goes.


If you have performed real life recue training then you would know first hand that your not going to fall out of a properly secured harness. You lost all credibility.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> *The members on the Rock Climbing forums are a friendly bunch of people ain't they?* Lol


I thought there were some jerks on AT but once the guys on the RC forums find out you a hunter and not a climber, all hell breaks loose!


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> I thought there were some jerks on AT but once the guys on the RC forums find out you a hunter and not a climber, all hell breaks loose!


Ha, those guys will probably tell you to use clothesline and a key chain carabiner, lol!


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

thirdhandman, I am very interested in a black diamond vario speed harness and I may be overlooking it but I cannot see what waist sizes this harness fits. I'm around a 38" waist. Should this harness fit me?


----------



## Arrowhunter (Jul 26, 2005)

I used mine this past weekend, wont be going back to a full body harness. Love the freedom and can still use my life lines just have to keep a short safety rope for hooking to my pursik on the lifeline!!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

JPW77 said:


> thirdhandman, I am very interested in a black diamond vario speed harness and I may be overlooking it but I cannot see what waist sizes this harness fits. I'm around a 38" waist. Should this harness fit me?



JPW77:I'm a 38 and I have at least 4-5 more inches to go. If you put it on over your pants but under your bibs or coveralls then connect through the zipper you will be good to go.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

*Wow: 100 post and the only negative one is from someone who hasn't tried it to hunt with yet. I guess they missed the very first thread.*


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

Do you/Can you use the Ropeman to replace a Prussic knot on the lifeline?


houser52 said:


> Yes, it's a Ropeman 1 that I use on my lineman's belt. It makes one hand adjustments very easy.
> 
> I actually have 2 lineman's ropes with a Ropeman to use with my harness, one long and one short. While hanging sticks, if I come to a limb and can't pass it without unhooking, I just throw the longer rope above the limb and hook up, unhook the shorter rope, then keep going up. That way I'm never disconnected from the tree.
> 
> ...


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Hoyt said:


> I used a Daisy Chain for a while. When using one be sure when you connect through a loop to go back through the main loop also.
> 
> *What concerns me with a fall is damage to my right shoulder.* My main tether goes from front around right side of waist and up behind my back to tree rope. On a fall the sudden impact would pull the tether tight under my right armpit while at the same time jerking my body to the right...seems to me like anyway.


I would think your shoulder should be the least of your worries. I'm under the impression these daisy chains are for holding a load - not designed to withstand a fall. The guys on the RC forums beat me to death with this - just make sure you blouse your pants so when your jewels wind up around your ankles, you should be able to find them. But if or when the stitching on the daisy chain fails from a sudden impact, self rescue may be a moot point.


----------



## Dawhit (Sep 28, 2013)

Absolutely no chance I would go back. Light, compact, quick and simple to get into, not to mention extremely comfortable to hang a stand while wearing one.


----------



## Hoyt (Jul 22, 2003)

tpcollins said:


> I would think your shoulder should be the least of your worries. I'm under the impression these daisy chains are for holding a load - not designed to withstand a fall. The guys on the RC forums beat me to death with this - just make sure you blouse your pants so when your jewels wind up around your ankles, you should be able to find them. But if or when the stitching on the daisy chain fails from a sudden impact, self rescue may be a moot point.


I said..I used a Daisy Chain for a WHILE..use Rabbit Runner now for main tether. Shoulder and arm are still my main concern. 

I would guess it's probably best to hook from Belay with main tether and go around waist and up...but locate your Prussic or whatever your're using as far to left or right as possible (for left and right handed shooters). By doing that the tether would stand less of a chance of getting under your armpit with a fall.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Correct Hoyt. But either try it your self or trust me. As you go down your body will turn and lean back which will leave no pressure on your arm.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

3griffs said:


> Do you/Can you use the Ropeman to replace a Prussic knot on the lifeline?


Yes. That's basically what they are made for. They have many uses but from the research I did they are used in place of a prussic. Only difference is they are easier to move once you have set your weight on them once. They won't lock up like a prussic knot will.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

The only problem I invision is trying to climb line man's style.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

flinginairos said:


> Yes. That's basically what they are made for. They have many uses but from the research I did they are used in place of a prussic. *Only difference is they are easier to move once you have set your weight on them once. They won't lock up like a prussic knot will*.


My Ropeman 1 must be different than yours. My experience is it's harder to slide up and down the lifeline versus the prusik knot. I bought it to add it above the prusik loop once on stand, not replace it (just a tad paranoid as usual). I really like how the Bluewater Assaultline and prusik ropes work together in locking together once "properly set" when on stand. Good luck.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Attach the loop end of your choker line to the belay loop. Now go around the tree and attach the other end by putting a carabiner through the prusik and the belay loop.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

tpcollins said:


> My Ropeman 1 must be different than yours. My experience is it's harder to slide up and down the lifeline versus the prusik knot. I bought it to add it above the prusik loop once on stand, not replace it (just a tad paranoid as usual). I really like how the Bluewater Assaultline and prusik ropes work together in locking together once "properly set" when on stand. Good luck.


I do the same exact thing only my main attachment for my Guidos Web is the Ropeman and the prussic below it gets connected to my RC harness as "backup". Only thing I have to worry about is the Assault Line breaking.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

flinginairos said:


> I do the same exact thing only my main attachment for my Guidos Web is the Ropeman and the prussic below it gets connected to my RC harness as "backup". Only thing I have to worry about is the Assault Line breaking.



Bluewater Assultline rope strength - 32 kilonewtons = 7194 pounds, I think we're good.

http://www.rei.com/product/472262/bluewater-assaultline-static-rope-716-x-150#specsTab


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

But with a 4 point harness the rope is attached at the hips (for linemans use) instead of in the center. Making it a little harder to position/hang sticks. IMO. 
Don't get me wrong, I will not go back to a full harness EXCEPT for hanging sticks or a hang-on. 90% of the time I'm in my climber and RC harness.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

tpcollins said:


> Bluewater Assultline rope strength - 32 kilonewtons = 7194 pounds, I think we're good.
> 
> http://www.rei.com/product/472262/bluewater-assaultline-static-rope-716-x-150#specsTab


Yeah I'm not at all worried about it. I'm just saying that's really the only way I'm coming down is IF the rope breaks lol


----------



## Campbell (Dec 4, 2009)

Question on daisy chains. How about the kind made from an 11 mm piece of climbing rope with knots ties every 6 inches or so so you can vary as condititions dictate?


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Campbell said:


> Question on daisy chains. How about the kind made from an 11 mm piece of climbing rope with knots ties every 6 inches or so so you can vary as condititions dictate?


Got a pic or link as to what you're asking about? I'm not sure if I've ever seen a rope daisy chain.


----------



## escout402 (Feb 22, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> I would think your shoulder should be the least of your worries. I'm under the impression these daisy chains are for holding a load - not designed to withstand a fall. The guys on the RC forums beat me to death with this - just make sure you blouse your pants so when your jewels wind up around your ankles, you should be able to find them. But if or when the stitching on the daisy chain fails from a sudden impact, self rescue may be a moot point.


You could use the Metolius Personal Anchor System. Similar to a daisy chain, but much stronger.

http://www.rei.com/product/825820/metolius-pas-22-personal-anchor-system


----------



## Campbell (Dec 4, 2009)

You make your own rope daisy chain


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

thirdhandman said:


> JPW77:I'm a 38 and I have at least 4-5 more inches to go. If you put it on over your pants but under your bibs or coveralls then connect through the zipper you will be good to go.


Thanks Jim. Now I'm just trying to decide between the black diamond vario speed harness or the petzl aspir. Sorry for going slightly off topic here...


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

escout402 said:


> You could use the Metolius Personal Anchor System. Similar to a daisy chain, but much stronger.
> 
> http://www.rei.com/product/825820/metolius-pas-22-personal-anchor-system


Yup - bought one earlier this year but switched over to the Beal Dynaclip instead since the guys on the RC forums chewed my azz for wanting to use it as a fall restraint. It's unused and available for sale is someone wants it . . .


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

Can you show me a pic?



flinginairos said:


> I do the same exact thing only my main attachment for my Guidos Web is the Ropeman and the prussic below it gets connected to my RC harness as "backup". Only thing I have to worry about is the Assault Line breaking.


----------



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

I must say Im really intrigued with all of this - after my incident a few weeks ago.

but damn I have no clue what most of youa re talking about.

Price wise doesnt look any more expensive than a good HSS - but Im lost - I will continue reading


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Just your basic 6' safety rope with a prusic knot and a $30-45 rock climbing harness is all you need. Those other devices are just cool and helpful variations.


----------



## Hoyt (Jul 22, 2003)

escout402 said:


> You could use the Metolius Personal Anchor System. Similar to a daisy chain, but much stronger.
> 
> http://www.rei.com/product/825820/metolius-pas-22-personal-anchor-system


I looked into that when I first started with this type harness....I'm good with the Rabbit Runner. The more loops I got on my harness the more things they hang on when climbing.


----------



## Hoyt (Jul 22, 2003)

Just as a warning for everyone new to this type harness like myself. I noticed this morning when climbing up to my stand that I had a carabiner hooked to a flimsy gear loop that was close to my climbing belt caribiner. I thought when I saw it how easy it would be for me to hook my climbing belt caribiner to the one on the flimsy gear loop instead of the one on my climbing belt loop. 

I was using it to tie a rope for pulling up my tree stand..won't use that method anymore..too close the other one. I'll use the heavy gear loop in back from now on.


----------



## IrregularPulse (Sep 22, 2012)

I really want to move into a RC harness, but other than the Black Diamond vario speed harness, what all else do you need and how does it all hook up. I use a climber that I like to tether at the base of the tree and adjust as needed as I climb. I also have 3 ladder stands that I have access to hunt from.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

IrregularPulse said:


> I really want to move into a RC harness, but other than the Black Diamond vario speed harness, what all else do you need and how does it all hook up. I use a climber that I like to tether at the base of the tree and adjust as needed as I climb. I also have 3 ladder stands that I have access to hunt from.


Harness, carabiners, tether, prusik, lifeline(s)


----------



## Arrowhunter (Jul 26, 2005)

where did you get the rope between the carbineers??



houser52 said:


> Harness, carabiners, tether, prusik, lifeline(s)


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

That's a 32" PMI Dynamic Lanyard that I ordered directly from PMI.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

IrregularPulse said:


> I really want to move into a RC harness, but other than the Black Diamond vario speed harness, what all else do you need and how does it all hook up. I use a climber that I like to tether at the base of the tree and adjust as needed as I climb. I also have 3 ladder stands that I have access to hunt from.


Here is how I do it with my climber. 
http://youtu.be/3mcEgEx-VhY


----------



## shawtd (Jun 27, 2012)

I don't want to further hijack this thread, but seems one of you guys doing this should make a good tutorial to get those of us interested started on the right foot....


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

Just ordered 2 of them. I like the set-up.



houser52 said:


> That's a 32" PMI Dynamic Lanyard that I ordered directly from PMI.


----------



## Kris_H_97 (Sep 2, 2011)

How have I not ever heard of this before?! Any chance any of you R/C harness users post a pic of you tethered to the tree? I saw a few questions earlier as to how that works, but a visual would be great. I was looking to upgrade my harness for next season, but this idea is just a no brainer! 
And before I double post, aside from the actual harness, what would be recommended to get along with a harness to tether myself (just for when I'm in my stand, nothing extra for climbing up and down) to the tree?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Kris_H_97 said:


> How have I not ever heard of this before?! Any chance any of you R/C harness users post a pic of you tethered to the tree? I saw a few questions earlier as to how that works, but a visual would be great. I was looking to upgrade my harness for next season, but this idea is just a no brainer!
> And before I double post, aside from the actual harness, what would be recommended to get along with a harness to tether myself *(just for when I'm in my stand, nothing extra for climbing up and down*) to the tree?


So you're only planning to fall when on stand and not when you're climbing up or down?


All my stands have new lifelines and here's how I attach . . . I'm never unhooked once my feet leave the ground.


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

Any reason you simply don't have the caribiner attached to the harness and the prusik? In other words, you don't need the dynamic lanyard? I really like your set-up and will move in your direction. However, I typically attach my harness to the prusik via the caribiner which is attached to my belay loop.




tpcollins said:


> So you're only planning to fall when on stand and not when you're climbing up or down?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Kris_H_97 (Sep 2, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> So you're only planning to fall when on stand and not when you're climbing up or down?
> 
> 
> All my stands have new lifelines and here's how I attach . . . I'm never unhooked once my feet leave the ground.


No, nonsense! I'm just trying to simplify my learning/shopping process piece by piece. 
And as 3griffs was asking, no static/breakaway line attached?
Thanks for the pics!


----------



## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

been using one for 20 years,, i remember getting bashed big time on here for it! 
I was going to turn up side down and die!
It was going to kill me if i had to hang in it over 15 min!
Its going to be in the way of shooting!
Bla bla bla bla bla ,, im still using it,, fits in a cargo pocket....... weighs next to nothing....take an extra rope with you and you can get out of the tree or climb the tree with out a tree stand. Looks like the tide has changed!!!!


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

3griffs said:


> *Any reason you simply don't have the caribiner attached to the harness and the prusik*? In other words, you don't need the dynamic lanyard? I really like your set-up and will move in your direction. However, I typically attach my harness to the prusik via the caribiner which is attached to my belay loop.


Are you using this with a climber and sliding it up as you go or does your lifeline run from above your hang-on stand to the ground?


----------



## MNDan (Nov 24, 2004)

Are all of these harnesses (Black Diamond Couloir & Vario in particular) pretty quiet? 

Also it would be nice to get a laundry list of what we need to buy to get setup, with perhaps even some links to good places to get the stuff.  This sounds like a nice improvement over my existing SOP 4-pt harness.

thanks!
dan


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Dan- go up several posts and I posted a pic and a list of what is shown.


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

I have all the lifelines set up already for all my stands. So yes, my lifeline extends from above the stand all the way to the ground.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Geeze people. Read a few previous posts or two?


----------



## fatsbucknut (Apr 29, 2005)

I'll never go back. I went with the Petzl Pandion. So far I like it. Very minimal and not too bad to hang from. I bought some dynamic rope to anchor myself to the tree

http://www.campsaver.com/pandion-harness-one-size

this is how i'm anchoring myself. I didn't like the idea of having a carabiner at waist level for my bow to bump against. 

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107277825


----------



## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

I'll never go back. So much more range of motion, easy on easy off, I can use all of my pockets. It's the berries


----------



## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

snapcrackpop said:


> Just your basic 6' safety rope with a prusic knot and a $30-45 rock climbing harness is all you need. Those other devices are just cool and helpful variations.


That's what I use. It came with the harness I used to wear. Loggy Bayou TSS


----------



## MGB (Dec 21, 2008)

escout402 said:


> You could use the Metolius Personal Anchor System. Similar to a daisy chain, but much stronger.
> 
> http://www.rei.com/product/825820/metolius-pas-22-personal-anchor-system


Yep, awesome piece of equipment.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

3griffs said:


> I have all the lifelines set up already for all my stands. So yes, my lifeline extends from above the stand all the way to the ground.


Do you have a really long tails on your prusik rope? Otherwise I would think you'd have to adjust the coils every time between standing or sitting.


----------



## jace (Jul 16, 2005)

Some of you guys really tick me off, I was done spending money this year on hunting stuff, but now after this thread Im gonna HAVE to go out and give this RC harness thing a go, seems like a good thing, so anyways thanks guys, and Jim you make some great doo dads for hunting


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

jace said:


> Some of you guys really tick me off, I was done spending money this year on hunting stuff, but now after this thread Im gonna HAVE to go out and give this RC harness thing a go, seems like a good thing, so anyways thanks guys, and Jim you make some great doo dads for hunting


You will kick yourself for not doing it years ago, look at the Beal dynaclip for attaching the harness to the prusik, use real climbing rope for lifeline and prusik and a real locking carabiner.


----------



## ego260 (Dec 26, 2011)

I just got my Black Diamond Alpine Bod! I tried it out on the tree today. The worry I had about not being able to do a complete 360 with it on is gone. All I had to do was duck under the rope. Looks like my HSS Hybrid is going up for sale! Better do it quick before every one swithches to a r/c harness!


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

[emoji37] 
Attach the rope at waist or bellybutton height so you can move your bow OVER the rope if you turn in or out. 

A full body harness attaches high, a rock climbing harness attaches at waist height.


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

Yes.



tpcollins said:


> Do you have a really long tails on your prusik rope? Otherwise I would think you'd have to adjust the coils every time between standing or sitting.


----------



## Kris_H_97 (Sep 2, 2011)

snapcrackpop said:


> Here is how I do it with my climber.
> http://youtu.be/3mcEgEx-VhY


 Just thumbs up'd your vid. Thanks for the visual representation!


----------



## Kris_H_97 (Sep 2, 2011)

shawtd said:


> I don't want to further hijack this thread, but seems one of you guys doing this should make a good tutorial to get those of us interested started on the right foot....





houser52 said:


> Harness, carabiners, tether, prusik, lifeline(s)





houser52 said:


> I threaded the waist belt through a length of 2" tubular webbing and then threaded a 30" looped sling through the 2" webbing. Everything is neat and out of the way. I can also remove the sling when not needed. I've used it a lot in the past few weeks and it works great.


And where do you find the 2" webbing you threaded your harness belt through? I almost have all the pieces lined up, just can't find that part. LOVE the idea you have here!


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

I bought the webbing at StrapWorks.com 2" tubular webbing.
I think I said in an earlier post that I don't use the ABC harness and the pic was only to demonstrate how the lineman's setup looks on it. My harness is the Misty Mountain Gym Dandy with the lineman's belt set up. I like the Gym Dandy because I don't have to step through the waist belt to put it on which makes it so much easier to put on wearing heavy winter pants and thermals. Slide my legs through the leg loops, pull it up, buckle the waist belt and double the belt back through the buckle.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

3griffs said:


> *Any reason you simply don't have the caribiner attached to the harness and the prusik?* In other words, you don't need the dynamic lanyard? I really like your set-up and will move in your direction. However, I typically attach my harness to the prusik via the caribiner which is attached to my belay loop.


3griffs - the more I think about this the better I like it. Currently all of the prusik lanyards I made were about 16" or so end to end, and they're already attached to my lifelines that are out on stand. All I have to do is clip to them and go.

But if I made a prusik lanyard about 46" end to end, I could tie it in when I got to the stand and then hook it to my belay look and climb, thereby not needing my 30" Dynaclip. Not sure if tying a prusik knot every time would be that much of a pain versus just clipping on and climbing. Good idea though.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> I bought the webbing at StrapWorks.com 2" tubular webbing.
> I think I said in an earlier post that I don't use the ABC harness and the pic was only to demonstrate how the lineman's setup looks on it. My harness is the Misty Mountain Gym Dandy with the lineman's belt set up. I like the Gym Dandy because I don't have to step through the waist belt to put it on which makes it so much easier to put on wearing heavy winter pants and thermals. Slide my legs through the leg loops, pull it up, buckle the waist belt and double the belt back through the buckle.


That harness looks nice but a bit thin on padding. Have you ever suspend from it to see how comfortable it is? I went with the Petzl Aspir because of the leg padding but mainly because of the generous waist padding. I tried a bare bone harness from REI but it cut into my legs and waist a bit more than I wanted - can't imagine what it would be like to fall in. I like comfort . . .


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> That harness looks nice but a bit thin on padding. Have you ever suspend from it to see how comfortable it is? I went with the Petzl Aspir because of the leg padding but mainly because of the generous waist padding. I tried a bare bone harness from REI but it cut into my legs and waist a bit more than I wanted - can't imagine what it would be like to fall in. I like comfort . . .


The pic was taken without the removable padding so you can see the lineman's belt better. You are correct, it is more comfortable with the padding and it normally stays on all the time. Your Petzl Aspir is nice and I did try one but found I really didn't need the leg padding.


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

I think both ways get the job done. I'm actually going to try the dynaclip and see how it goes. Either way, we are not hitting the ground.


tpcollins said:


> 3griffs - the more I think about this the better I like it. Currently all of the prusik lanyards I made were about 16" or so end to end, and they're already attached to my lifelines that are out on stand. All I have to do is clip to them and go.
> 
> But if I made a prusik lanyard about 46" end to end, I could tie it in when I got to the stand and then hook it to my belay look and climb, thereby not needing my 30" Dynaclip. Not sure if tying a prusik knot every time would be that much of a pain versus just clipping on and climbing. Good idea though.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

The good news bad news on padding. 99% of the time the hunter is sitting on the leg padding which makes it less comfortable for me. Using the 2 inch webbing is less comfortable in a fall. JMO and I have done both. I like 0 padding on the leg straps.


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

thought iw as done buying things as well but now i got to try out a rock harness and compare to the good ole muddy 

is there a specific carabiner you guys are using? i have several from my HSS harnesses and my Muddy Harnesses, can i just use those?

also, what would be the best place to order the rope you guys made your lifelines and tethers from? i have read all 7 pages of this thread.

thanks


----------



## MNDan (Nov 24, 2004)

I just picked up one of these on eBay for $45 - seems like it will work...

http://mistymountain.com/military-tactical/military-harnesses/milroc-harness.html


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

MNDan said:


> I just picked up one of these on eBay for $45 - seems like it will work...
> 
> http://mistymountain.com/military-tactical/military-harnesses/milroc-harness.html


I have one of those too in addition to my 2- Misty Mountain Gym Dandy harnesses. Excellent harness, comfortable and made to military specs. If you're wanting some padding Misty Mountain sells padding for the waist belt that just velcros right on. Works great, quiet and removable for cleaning. The website shows blue but I ordered just the waist pad in brown. 

http://mistymountain.com/program-gear/program-accessories/pad-ons.html


----------



## Arrowhunter (Jul 26, 2005)

if someone is looking for a harness, I got one forsale in the classifieds. I bought a large but needed a xl / brand new just tried and knew I messed up.
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2324493


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Since you already have the HSS, it came with rope and carabiner. If it worked with the 4 point it will work with any rock climber harness. You don need to buy one to try one. Go to REI and ask to hang from one.


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

thirdhandman said:


> Since you already have the HSS, it came with rope and carabiner. If it worked with the 4 point it will work with any rock climber harness. You don need to buy one to try one. Go to REI and ask to hang from one.



thank you sir..

my term try basically means buy


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> The good news bad news on padding. *99% of the time the hunter is sitting on the leg padding *which makes it less comfortable for me. Using the 2 inch webbing is less comfortable in a fall. JMO and I have done both. I like 0 padding on the leg straps.


I must be part of the 1% where the leg padding sits out just past the front edge of my cushioned seat - or my azz is small enough that it doesn't get trapped underneath. If you're sitting on a hard piece of wood for a seat, I could see where it might be annoying, but I have 2" Gorilla foam seats on my stands so I'm not sure I would notice that slim section of leg padding if it was underneath or not.


----------



## MNDan (Nov 24, 2004)

houser52 said:


> I have one of those too in addition to my 2- Misty Mountain Gym Dandy harnesses. Excellent harness, comfortable and made to military specs. If you're wanting some padding Misty Mountain sells padding for the waist belt that just velcros right on. Works great, quiet and removable for cleaning. The website shows blue but I ordered just the waist pad in brown.
> 
> http://mistymountain.com/program-gear/program-accessories/pad-ons.html


Thanks for letting me know it's solid! I'm excited about the color and infinite adjustability for when I am putting it on over a bunch of warm clothes.


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

tcarter86 said:


> is there a specific carabiner you guys are using?


Maybe it's habit from years as a professional climber but I wouldn't climb on anything other than a triple autolock carabiner for the primary attachment. Can't count how many times I've seen people forget to secure screw lock biners.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Been using the double locking carabiners that came with the HSS and Seat of the pants. Over the years I've probably collected a dozen of them and have never taken a fall with them so they should be good. Also am using their rope and Prusik. I keep two in my pack and take with me. One to stay attached the other for a self rescue loop.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

TC260 said:


> Maybe it's habit from years as a professional climber but I wouldn't climb on anything other than a triple autolock carabiner for the primary attachment. Can't count how many times I've seen people forget to secure screw lock biners.


Funny you mentioned that. While hanging stands a few weeks ago I forgot to lock the carabiners on my lineman's rope several times. Needless to say I ordered a couple Petzl Ball Lock carabiners that next week. Now when they're closed, they're locked.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

How do you guys go about self-rescue with prusik + foot loop with this system? It looks like it is done with the main tree tether going all the wqy to the ground and then attaching the prusik + footloop to climb up or down. Do you have the prusik to the RC harness below the prusik for the footloop or vice versa like this guy?






If running rope/tether all the way to the ground, does it make use if a climber more difficult?


----------



## Eric Cartman (Mar 5, 2008)

I don't use the leg padded one. Black Diamond. I honestly do not notice it in the stand. I had to stand for a shot the other day that was behind me and nothing got in the way. Its great. The only negative is i cant lean forward at times to stretch and have the safety line as a tension point so I can be lazy leaning forward. And for the fall part, we are wearing these so we will be facing the tree to make the recovery easier. With the adrenaline pumping, I doubt I will notice if I have padding or not until after I have recovered and probably get some bruising. But, I'll take that over the alternative. I have tried on the padding one, I did notice it slightly while seated. Not at all on the pad less which led to my purchase. My concern is in the cold with the HBS on. Not sure I can use it unless I make a longer tether. That's not a problem on a hang on with the ladder close by, but not sure I would risk it with the climber if the bottom fell out.


----------



## jfp1972 (Feb 26, 2009)

I've been a climber for years but I've never used my harness while hunting. Today I bought myself a new harness just for hunting. It's a Petzl Adjama. It's made for mountaineering and ice climbing ... 2 activities where comfort, all day use and compatibility with a pack are important. I'm excited to use it on Wednesday.
http://www.rei.com/media/nn/89b02b55-aefe-4d26-9653-cb1bc455bf8a.jpg


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm stuck between the black diamond vario or the petzl aspir

Anyone recommend one more than the other?


----------



## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

I hunted in my black diamond for the first time this week and was very happy with it overall. I added the lineman's belt as shown in some other thread and have been using it with my HSS anchor strap/prussic as well as with my treehopper ucr type rope. I need to convert it to biners though. 

The harness is light, much more comfortable while walking and seated and gave me a capability I wasn't expecting or anticipating needing. Wednesday evening while getting set, my pull up rope became tangled and not realizing what I was fighting, it dislodged one of my LW sticks. I was able to climb down, anchor and basically rope access down to fix my stick. I could've done it other ways but probably not safer, quicker or quieter than I did.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Eric Cartman said:


> I don't use the leg padded one. Black Diamond. I honestly do not notice it in the stand. I had to stand for a shot the other day that was behind me and nothing got in the way. Its great. The only negative is i cant lean forward at times to stretch and have the safety line as a tension point so I can be lazy leaning forward. And for the fall part, we are wearing these so we will be facing the tree to make the recovery easier. With the adrenaline pumping, I doubt I will notice if I have padding or not until after I have recovered and probably get some bruising. But, I'll take that over the alternative. I have tried on the padding one, I did notice it slightly while seated. Not at all on the pad less which led to my purchase. My concern is in the cold with the HBS on. Not sure I can use it unless I make a longer tether. That's not a problem on a hang on with the ladder close by, but not sure I would risk it with the climber if the bottom fell out.


If you have an open front climber the negative about not being able to lean out and stretch might be outweighed by being able to stand facing the tree and lean back taking some of the weight off the feet. Sort of like leaning against a car. I tried it in an openshot stand this week and worked well for me.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

tcarter86 said:


> I'm stuck between the black diamond vario or the petzl aspir
> 
> Anyone recommend one more than the other?


No padding versus padding - the padded sheath around the waist on the Aspir sold me:


----------



## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

I use the BD Vario ...I love it. It's light weight comfortable and stable. Big enough to fit over all my layers in the late season also.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

*With winter coming on, just a suggestion. Try putting your harness on over your jeans. Then put your Bibs or coveralls on. Then connect through the wizz zipper.*


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

thirdhandman said:


> *With winter coming on, just a suggestion. Try putting your harness on over your jeans. Then put your Bibs or coveralls on. Then connect through the wizz zipper.*


That's my plan.

Just recieved everything but the Beal dyna clip yesterday. Liking it so far


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Video of RC harness. Demo of shooting and falling positions.

http://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg


----------



## Charman03 (Jul 31, 2006)

can someone recommend me a few good models to try out, also where do you buy them? Im tired of the SOP shoulder straps.


----------



## trial153 (Nov 27, 2011)

Charman03 said:


> can someone recommend me a few good models to try out, also where do you buy them? Im tired of the SOP shoulder straps.


Black Diamond Vario ...really nice and reasonable priced.


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks guys on the input. 

I think the various is one size fit all. But I think the aspiring is sized. What size would I need for a 36" waist?


TP know you use the Beal Dyna clip to attach you harness to the prussik.

Is there a real difference instead of hooking up straight from the harness to the prussik?

Just wanted to know before I buy the Dyna clip. Trying to learn as much as possible. 

Thanks


----------



## hoytrulez (Jul 27, 2009)

How do you know what size harness to order are they all about the same when it comes to sizes?


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

The bd various says one size fit all

Just have to check and see how each us sized. I couldn't find any size info for the petal aspire so I'm hoping someone here can help me


----------



## baz77 (Jan 21, 2003)

If anyone is a bigger guy like myself and your looking for rock climbing harness check out Misty Mountain products they have harness all the way up to a 56" waist. 

I just ordered one of their milroc harness's can't wait to try it out.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

tcarter86 said:


> Thanks guys on the input.
> 
> I think the various is one size fit all. But I think the aspiring is sized. What size would I need for a 36" waist?
> 
> ...


That's what I was pretty much asking in post #171 in this thread.

If you go directly to the prusik from the 'biner on your harness to the rope, the prusik will be at about chest level when you are hanging from it.

If you do fall and have to do a self rescue by attaching another prusik + loop as a foot hold, you don't have enough clearance between the prusiks to efficiently go up or down.

If you have a longer length between the harness 'biner and the prusik on the rope that places the prusik at arm's reach above your head, then you have more room for the rescue prusik for the foot hold (as shown in the video of my post).


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

tcarter86 said:


> Thanks guys on the input.
> 
> *I think the various is one size fit all. But I think the aspiring is sized. What size would I need for a 36" waist?*
> 
> ...


I buy 36" size pants/shorts although my waist does measure more than that (never figured that out) so I bought the *Aspir 2* as I want to wear the harness outside of my clothing. Just seems like it would offer more cushion in a fall that way. 

Not sure what you mean in the second question unless you wonder why I use the Lark's Foot to attach the Beal?


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

alukban said:


> That's what I was pretty much asking in post #171 in this thread.
> 
> If you go directly to the prusik from the 'biner on your harness to the rope, the prusik will be at about chest level when you are hanging from it.
> 
> ...


thanks you answered it for me.

thanks tp for the sizing info


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

snapcrackpop said:


> Video of RC harness. Demo of shooting and falling positions.
> 
> http://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg


That was a pretty good video - the tree did get in a few licks but I thought the self rescue of pulling on the lifeline and walking up the tree was impressive.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

tcarter86 said:


> TP know you use the Beal Dyna clip to attach you harness to the prussik.
> 
> *Is there a real difference instead of hooking up straight from the harness to the prussik?*


I think I understand - you're asking hooking the prusik to the harness's belay loop with a binder? That would work but I think it would be a pain between sitting and then wanting to stand up - or wanting to turn to the opposite side of the lifeline. With a 30" or so lanyard or a prusik lanyard with long tails, I would think you'd be less constricted on stand. 

Also, with the prusik anchored above your shoulders, the pendulum action would seem to help better in scrambling for self rescue.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

tpcollins said:


> That was a pretty good video - the tree did get in a few licks but I thought the self rescue of pulling on the lifeline and walking up the tree was impressive.


That was definitely a good demonstration. One thing I noticed is by swinging around the tree a lot of the force of the fall is minimized instead of falling straight down and stopping. I'm sure a regular harness would hurt a whole lot more with all the pressure going right to the crotch!


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Wow... I just stumbled upon this thread.

So I am in a industry where we climb large steel towers... I have also rock climbed years ago..

The difference between a fall in a 4pt versus a rock climbing harness with a large object behind you is back support...

So you fall into a RC harness, your back has no support.... your going to lay back and swing into the tree and possibly smack your head, causing a neck injury.

A 4pt harness supports your back... Sure you can smack your spine into the tree, but it will be equally distributed...

Again, 15yrs in an industry that requires a harness to be worn each and everyday..

I'm using a 4pt.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

flinginairos said:


> That was definitely a good demonstration. One thing I noticed is by swinging around the tree a lot of the force of the fall is minimized instead of falling straight down and stopping. I'm sure a regular harness would hurt a whole lot more with all the pressure going right to the crotch!


It doesn't go to your crotch... It pinches on your side.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

*To all those who thought he would spin violently or turn upside down. What say you now?*
http://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

the flaw in that video, he's jumping off into the turn... thats not how thats going to go in real life at all...

Just saying wear what you want..

I'm sticking 4pt..


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Jim... he is anticipating what is going to happen by jumping down into a turn... when your stand suddenly goes, are you going to be standing and jumping in a circular motion to swing around the tree... No..

Again..

I have 15yrs in an industry where harness's, safety, and rescue is the #1 thing, and we go over it everyday...


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Also, when the tether gets under your arm, and rips it up and breaks it, good luck climbing back up lol...

This RC harness while tree stand hunting has so many flaws its not even funny.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> It doesn't go to your crotch... It pinches on your side.


I think he was referring to a full body harness pinching in the crotch. The way one hangs in a r/c harness the rope pulls away from the person hanging allowing them to use their feet to climb they way shown in the video. That also allows the leg loops to be lower on the thighs and not on the femoral artery or femoral veins. It would be difficult to use the tree to climb as he did attached between the shoulders.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP: falling inside a tower I would want a full body harness on. There is ladders and steps all the way up. One should be easily able to grab and spin to the right position to get a foothold. The only time a full body harness would not be good in a tower is if you were unconscious. Then it would cause suspension trauma. It is holding the unconscious person upright and putting pressure on the femoral veins.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

EJP1234 said:


> Also, when the tether gets under your arm, and rips it up and breaks it, good luck climbing back up lol...
> 
> This RC harness while tree stand hunting has so many flaws its not even funny.


How many times have you fallen in your 4-point harness? If you have, did you self rescue? Not being smart here, asking a legitimate question.


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

EJP1234 said:


> Wow... I just stumbled upon this thread.
> 
> So I am in a industry where we climb large steel towers... I have also rock climbed years ago..
> 
> ...


A professional climbing 4 point harness may be better than a RC harness but they are very expensive compared to the hunting ones that most people typically wear. The ones that hunters wear are horrible when it comes to falling; the RC harness is much better for self recovery and suspending from. 

Most blue collar hunters aren't going to spend the $4-500 on a high quality 4 point harness, and even those aren't comfortable to wear all day, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know. A RC harness is an inexpensive alternative. Jim is just trying to give a comfortable affordable option for the everyday hunter. 

Some people wont wear a 4point harness, myself included. This thread is about an alternative to wearing nothing. I wear my RC harness 100% of the time. My old 4 point harness was so distracting I hardly wore it at all.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Got to try mine today, ALOT better then a 4 point harness, After I was done hunting I decided to try it out at the base of the tree, not to bad, little uncomfortable but you can pretty much hop right back into the tree in a second. Also put my hands behind my back and went off again trying to flip myself upside down, you would really have to try hard to flip yourself,tried to flip myself while hanging, leaned back and kicked up and still couldnt get my body vertical. So im happy and see no need to to a 4 point harness ever again.


----------



## strikerII (Feb 1, 2004)

I've been bowhunting for 38 years. I started out with the single waist belt, then progressed to a Gorilla harness. Liked it and used it for years. This season I switched to a rock climbing harness after alot of research and input and *LOVE* it. I run the 10mm climbing rope from the harness up under my right arm and connect to the tree with a safety belt/carabiner. No problem standing, turning and shooting. Also, when I'm seated, I have the treestrap taught on me so if I lean forward or to the side, I'm still secure/taught to the tree. 
I had a very close call about 7 years ago; I had just climbed, in the dark, into the a hangon stand, with a chain assembly on the tree, stepped onto the platform and was setting the stand with downward weight on the seat platform and then lower corner. I was attached to the tree with a linesman belt. Suddenly the stand kicked away from the tree and fell 25 feet to the ground, and I slid about 5 feet down the tree till I hit a step and stopped. I was able to collect myself, climb down and sat on the ground for about 15 minutes, shocked. Looking at the stand on the ground, I noticed the hook to attach the chain to the stand had been opened up and links had saw marks on them. We had had a problem with stands being damaged on this property by a "hunter" who didn't like the fact that we now had permission to hunt here. He admitted this to a homeowner in the area that he had damaged our stands. When I climbed the tree in the dark, the chain hook was on the opposite side of the tree I was on.But after that incident, I wondered how, if I had been attached to the tree when the stand gave out, I would have faired in that fall. The linesman's belt kept me against the tree and forward that I was able to use my arms/hands to grab as I slide down and my legs faced the tree to hit steps. Really made me think about my safety options.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

I have fallen into a 4pt harness while hungting.. A gorilla, not sure of the model name right off the bat. I do not use a fancy steel harness like we use on the steel (I don't climb anymore myself but am a manager). Maybe with my experience climbing helped me get back over, but I had no issues getting back to the climbing sticks.

So lets say your using a climbing harness with a RC harness... The stand drops, your hanging in the harness... how is it going to help you anymore than a 4pt? 

With the 4pt, you have the legs straps that drop down to relieve pressure. RC harness your going to be hanging via your ass for some time, and if you think it's not going to cut off your ciculation your wrong.

So lets say its a fall from a ladder stand. It twists and tips over... How is the RC harness going to help you anymore? It's not... your still hanging, with no back support again.

Lets say you fall from a hang on using sticks or screw ins... How is the RC harness going to help you anymore... its not, its going to spin you into the pegs smacking you in the face.

Again, a 4pt harness is better.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

EJP1234 said:


> I have fallen into a 4pt harness while hungting.. A gorilla, not sure of the model name right off the bat. I do not use a fancy steel harness like we use on the steel (I don't climb anymore myself but am a manager). Maybe with my experience climbing helped me get back over, but I had no issues getting back to the climbing sticks.
> 
> So lets say your using a climbing harness with a RC harness... The stand drops, your hanging in the harness... how is it going to help you anymore than a 4pt?
> 
> ...


You say a RC harness won't help but I really don't see how you can say that? You can't flip over upside down. You have very little pressure on your legs. Rock climbers hang in them got a lot more time than we ever would. They also take some nasty falls and rely on the harness to save them just as you would on your 4-point harness. I really don't see a regular hunting harness being better at all and I've used both. Have never fallen from either one and I plan to keep it that way. I have hung from both and the RC harness is WAY more comfortable. Use what you like I'm sticking with the RC harness when in a regular stand.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Thats the key..... Hanging and falling... And what the body and the physics of the fall do to you during that time and impact. The other key, is where that tether is, and where it ends up during the impact... You also have to consider the lack of thought during that time, how quickly it happens and the fact that we are holding a weapon.

Rock Climbers climb two ways.... Assisted with a life line that someone below is holding, so if they loose grip the swing and are lowered down... or they insert anchors into the rocks very frequently....

When you are using it in a tree stand fashion, you are not using it for it's intended designed use... 

Do as you want... This is my last post on this topic. Just let it be known, that someone with 15yrs climbing experience, rescue experience, safety experience for climbing situations, ordering harnesses etc etc... Is wearing a Gorilla G-TAC Air Safety Harness...


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

EJP, your right. Hunters using either method need to think about "after the fall" and self rescue options.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Just for discussion, it seems to me that all "4 point" harnesses, no matter if they're the ones that come with stands or a $500 super industrial harness, have a couple things in common. If the person should fall, all of the pressure or impact is still taken with the upper thighs and groin area. All the chest straps, shoulder straps, waist straps are there simply to keep you from falling out of it if you take a header off a tower , roof or whatever. Not to mention that you're still left hanging at the end of a long tether where you're helplessly stuck until someone arrives to get you down. Also, when wearing a 4 point harness you will be swinging around and banging against something if you would take a fall only more so because you're at the end of a long tether.

Remember that we hunters are supposed to be tied in with very little slack and we shouldn't "fall" anyway, only weight the harness.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

thats not true at all, the 4pt harness distibutes the impact throughtout the harness.... hence 4 points...


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

EJP1234 said:


> thats not true at all, the 4pt harness distibutes the impact throughtout the harness.... hence 4 points...


Stand breaks and you drop straight down. The waist belt MIGHT take a little bit of the force but most people don't wear those as tight as they need to be. So where does the impact go? The two legs straps in the groin will take most of the impact. If the tether is tight like it's supposed to it probably wouldn't hurt at all. Same for the RC harness.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

flinginairos said:


> Stand breaks and you drop straight down. The waist belt MIGHT take a little bit of the force but most people don't wear those as tight as they need to be. So where does the impact go? The two legs straps in the groin will take most of the impact. If the tether is tight like it's supposed to it probably wouldn't hurt at all. Same for the RC harness.


You said it before I could type it.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

There is enough confusion about harnesses already, that is why I haven't corrected anybody. TP Collins pointed this out in another thread and he is correct. 4 point harnesses are what race car drivers wear. What HSS and Muddy, trees spider etc sell is a full body harness. If you want to be technical that would be a 5 point harness. 2 shoulder straps, 1 waist and 2 leg straps.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

I'm thinking that I will be using the r/c harness with the tether around the tree going all the way to the ground, attached to the r/c harness via a long prusik to a carabiner.

This would be a "single rope technique" or "SRT" used for tree climbing by hobbyist and arborists. In the event of a catastrophic tree stand failure where the tree stand falls away completely, you could choose to descend or ascend the rope all the way to the ground using a "Texas kick technique" with the addition of another prusik + foot loop or






just climb up with a foot locking technique assited by the safety prusik






or even descend the easy way with a belay device...






...but that's just me 

As an aside, I would actually clip a small accessory line to the main loop of the tether that goes around the tree so that, in case of a self rescue that finds me back on the ground, I can still yank on that accessory line and release my rope from the danged tree.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP: The title of this thread is after hunting in a rock climbing harness. We were looking for people who hunted out of both and had real life experience with it. Wanted to see if there were any people who tried it and went back to a full body harness. Over 200 post of people who have actually tried it agree it is better. The only negative post are from people who haven't even tried it for himself to compare. 
If you want to start your own thread that is fine. You have your own opinion and experience about tower climbing so I'm not going to argue about something I haven't tried.


----------



## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> Wow... I just stumbled upon this thread.
> 
> So I am in a industry where we climb large steel towers... I have also rock climbed years ago..
> 
> ...


I also worked climbing microwave towers and per OSHA we had mandatory climbing equipment with 4 pt harness, self rescue and all that goes with it. I agree that a good 4 pt harness is best if your going to take a fall from a tower or possibly anything for that matter but we also worked with far more slack in our equipment so we could preform the work that was necessary. Also our fall arrest harness's were not inexpensive and cost several hundred dollars and were big and bulky. I now use a RC harness for any tree stand hunting because for 1, I will always have it with me even for those long hikes to my stands because it is not big and bulky and weight is at a minimum. When I get in my stand I also tie up so as not to have a lot of slack so any fall will be a very short one. I do have to add that anytime we had to do self rescue off towers that hanging by ones back above the neck makes it quite difficult for some to try and tie on a prussick knot on your tether strap in order to add a caribiner and some webbing or an e trier in order to then step up and climb back up to the nearest support beam. I love the RC harness due to I am already facing the tree and not having to reach around my back to turn my self around before starting the climb back up. Hunting from a tree stand can be rewarding but quite challenging and hazardous as well. Ask yourself, should you take a fall and be suspended by whatever harness you use, will you be able to self rescue yourself? If you have to think about your answer, you might want to stick to a ground blind.


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

I'm going to make a video and have a buddy cut the strap of the stand so I don't know when the fall will occur. I think this will be the best way to demonstrate how the RC harness will do in that situation. I will try to do that this week sometime. I'll post it good or bad for all to see!


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

flinginairos said:


> I'm going to make a video and have a buddy cut the strap of the stand so I don't know when the fall will occur. I think this will be the best way to demonstrate how the RC harness will do in that situation. I will try to do that this week sometime. I'll post it good or bad for all to see!


:set1_applaud: Excellent.


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

flinginairos said:


> I'm going to make a video and have a buddy cut the strap of the stand so I don't know when the fall will occur. I think this will be the best way to demonstrate how the RC harness will do in that situation. I will try to do that this week sometime. I'll post it good or bad for all to see!


More balls than I have. Lol


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

DaneHunter said:


> More balls than I have. Lol


LOL or less brains not sure which one! If i'm only a few feet off the ground i'll be ok. If not i'll prove that the RC harness isn't the method to use right?


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

flinginairos said:


> LOL or less brains not sure which one! If i'm only a few feet off the ground i'll be ok. If not i'll prove that the RC harness isn't the method to use right?


You may want to wear a helmet and some padding. I think you are gonna get banged up if you fall with either harness.


----------



## huntstrong (Oct 10, 2007)

after reading though all of the posts i have a few questions. i am not a climber and know nothing about rope or knots but i love learning new things and doing things myself. 

what types of rope are you using for each. specifics and diameters?
i am assuming dynamic climbing rope instead of static for all but not sure

is your life line, pursik and tether all out of the same type and diameter rope?


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

heres what you can use for prussic
http://www.rei.com/product/767612/new-england-8mm-accessory-cord-package-of-30-feet#descriptionTab

heres the lifeline rope

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-7-16-x-...rg=20140602152332&rk=1&rkt=10&sd=161438161730


http://www.rei.com/product/472262/bluewater-assaultline-static-rope-716-x-150


same types can be found at REI as well.


----------



## dogzlife (Jul 11, 2004)

thirdhandman said:


> I had a discussion with one of the representatives from OSHA last month. He agreed to try a RCH. He called Saturday and thanked me. He too is now a convert.
> Hope that helps you my friend.:focus:


Jim, I was going to stay out of this thread until I read the above. I hope you are not implying that OSHA would condone this as an acceptable use of an RC harness, because that same gentlemen who is going to try an RCH would have to cite me if used similarly in the workplace (ask him).


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

HUntstrong: I use dynamic rope of 1/2" for lifeline and tether. A smaller 3/8" dynamic rope but plenty strong for the prusik.


----------



## Tater1985 (Apr 28, 2008)

marked for later


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

dogzlife said:


> Jim, I was going to stay out of this thread until I read the above. I hope you are not implying that OSHA would condone this as an acceptable use of an RC harness, because that same gentlemen who is going to try an RCH would have to cite me if used similarly in the workplace (ask him).


A doubt OSHA would approve of a RC harness for any professional occupation, he is just merely stating that someone in the safety industry, whom can be considered an expert, agrees that in this situation a RC harness is prefectly safe.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

dogzlife said:


> Jim, I was going to stay out of this thread until I read the above. I hope you are not implying that OSHA would condone this as an acceptable use of an RC harness, because that same gentlemen who is going to try an RCH would have to cite me if used similarly in the workplace (ask him).


Dogzlife: In the workplace where OSHA is involved. Is it allowed for a worker to be up using a full body harness without anybody else on the property? Usually not allowed. That is the part where they are preparing for the worst and have somebody on hand to help rescue. In a tree we are by ourselves. Two totally different situations.


----------



## k&j8 (Mar 16, 2012)

Last week was my first full week of hunting with my new RC harness and I don't see myself going back to my full body harness anytime soon. I used my climber all week and was attached to the tree from the ground all the way up and it was so nice not having the tether hanging over my shoulder while climbing and at hunting height. While setting in the stand the tether was run under my right arm, but there was no slack while setting so a "fall" from this position would be more of a swing than a fall. With the tether attached this way even when standing any fall would be short and no farther than with my old setup. I think when using hang on stands the RC harness will really shine since most falls occur when climbing into or out of the stand. You are facing the tree at this time and are also tethered in front with the RC harness as opposed to being tethered in the back with the full body harness which I would think would be a huge advantage for the RC harness.

I am using the Black Diamond Couloir harness. The tether is Yale Bandit rope tied in to my harness with a figure 8 follow through and attached to an Omega Pacific Five-O locking carabiner with another figure 8 knot. The carabiner is attached to a Zipper Screamer. The screamer is attached to the prusilk knot on the HSS rope style tree strap via another Omega Pacific Five-O locking carabiner.


----------



## dogzlife (Jul 11, 2004)

DaneHunter said:


> A doubt OSHA would approve of a RC harness for any professional occupation, he is just merely stating that someone in the safety industry, whom can be considered an expert, agrees that in this situation a RC harness is prefectly safe.


In the workplace, they are called body belts. They are acceptable for work positioning, but not for fall arrest.



thirdhandman said:


> Dogzlife: In the workplace where OSHA is involved. Is it allowed for a worker to be up using a full body harness without anybody else on the property? Usually not allowed. That is the part where they are preparing for the worst and have somebody on hand to help rescue. In a tree we are by ourselves. Two totally different situations.


Working alone is allowed. It's just that a rescue plan must be in place. Essentially, the ability to contact assistance. But that said, these RC harnesses certainly have the edge regarding self rescue.

Personally, I think this agenda to have tree stand hunters use RC harnesses is not at all bad. The comfort factor alone will get hunters to use them, when perhaps in the past they were using nothing at all. I only wish a complete system was suggested instead of just a harness and also that the hunters are informed that its critical to keep the slack under 2 feet. 

I'll likely be buying a RCH in the future. Seems like just the ticket for my light and mobile sticks and fixed stand setup.


----------



## dogzlife (Jul 11, 2004)

snapcrackpop said:


> Video of RC harness. Demo of shooting and falling positions.
> 
> http://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg


Good video Snap!! One key aspect that I noticed is how and where the rope loop was on the tree. By having in on the side and affixed in a manner that tightened when you fell, it created a bit of a swing fall, which greatly helps to reduce the direct forces. This is a very good practice for those using an RC harness.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks. I'm starting to think after all this discussion that I should have less slack when standing. With the prusic knot it is easy to lengthen the rope for that small chance that I need to rotate to the left to shoot. I also might try placing that rope higher on the tree. But then it will start to get in the way if I need to turn while facing the tree.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

dogzlife said:


> Personally, I think this agenda to have tree stand hunters use RC harnesses is not at all bad. The comfort factor alone will get hunters to use them, when perhaps in the past they were using nothing at all. *I only wish a complete system was suggested instead of just a harness and also that the hunters are informed that its critical to keep the slack under 2 feet. *


These are two very good points. I would think using the wrong components in an improper manner could spell disaster when using either method. 

On another note, my lifeline and prusik rope were recommended by BMO Rescue - the prusik knot grabs really tight and quick. I have spare set at home so today I think I'll wet them down and ensure I get the same holding ability as when dry . . .


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

snapcrackpop said:


> Thanks. I'm starting to think after all this discussion that I should have less slack when standing. With the prusic knot it is easy to lengthen the rope for that small chance that I need to rotate to the left to shoot. I also might try placing that rope higher on the tree. But then it will start to get in the way if I need to turn while facing the tree.


Snapcracklepop; After 3 years of using this style harness, For me it's best to have the harness snug when sitting and have the tether at head height. When sitting, it is not a problem at all to shoot 90 degree left. When standing slack goes into the tether. The hunter can turn left or right and the tether stays against the body under the arm. If the hunter falls while standing, they can only fall a couple inches past the seat. If they fall asleep and fall out of the seat their but will not reach the floor. Please try this on your next video and post it for all to see.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

One of my fears when I used a full body harness was staying attached while climbing a ladder stand or a hang on stand. My fear was if I slipped and fell straight down, being connected in the back, it would pull me face first into a ladder rung. That might feel like a Mike tyson upper cut. That would probably knock me out. Hanging knocked out would probably cause suspension trauma. So I didn't stay attached until I was on stand.


----------



## BuckeyeRed (Sep 7, 2006)

I _hated_ wearing my traditional full body harness. And I bought and tried all the high quality names; Hss, Muddy, Tree spider, etc. They all did certain things well. Hss went on the easiest, muddy was the quietest, Tree spider was the most open in front. But what I couldn't stand was how restrictive and uncomfortable they felt across the back, chest, and shoulders! I've been looking for a better way for some time and thanks to threads like these, I have found what I've been looking for. I bought the Black Diamond Vario Speed based not the repeated recommendations and the ease of use. After trying it, I will not go back.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

I went from being angry at the incompetence in this thread...

To now laughing hysterically at the incompetence in this thread...

Good luck guys...


----------



## DMcDowell (Feb 2, 2014)

BuckeyeRed said:


> I _hated_ wearing my traditional full body harness. And I bought and tried all the high quality names; Hss, Muddy, Tree spider, etc. They all did certain things well. Hss went on the easiest, muddy was the quietest, Tree spider was the most open in front. But what I couldn't stand was how restrictive and uncomfortable they felt across the back, chest, and shoulders! I've been looking for a better way for some time and thanks to threads like these, I have found what I've been looking for. I bought the Black Diamond Vario Speed based not the repeated recommendations and the ease of use. After trying it, I will not go back.


Exact same harness I use and I LOVE it!


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

EJP1234 said:


> I went from being angry at the incompetence in this thread...
> 
> To now laughing hysterically at the incompetence in this thread...
> 
> Good luck guys...


Glad you are being entertained! That's all that really matters right? :wink:


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

is the beal dyna rope really needed? amazon pushed it back again and now its saying it will be here around the 14th even though its instock. thinking about canceling it


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

k&j8 said:


> Last week was my first full week of hunting with my new RC harness and I don't see myself going back to my full body harness anytime soon. I used my climber all week and was *attached to the tree from the ground all the way up* and it was so nice not having the tether hanging over my shoulder while climbing and at hunting height. While setting in the stand the tether was run under my right arm, but there was no slack while setting so a "fall" from this position would be more of a swing than a fall. With the tether attached this way even when standing any fall would be short and no farther than with my old setup. I think when using hang on stands the RC harness will really shine since most falls occur when climbing into or out of the stand. You are facing the tree at this time and are also tethered in front with the RC harness as opposed to being tethered in the back with the full body harness which I would think would be a huge advantage for the RC harness.
> 
> I am using the Black Diamond Couloir harness. The tether is Yale Bandit rope tied in to my harness with a figure 8 follow through and attached to an Omega Pacific Five-O locking carabiner with another figure 8 knot. The carabiner is attached to a Zipper Screamer. The screamer is attached to the prusilk knot on the HSS rope style tree strap via another Omega Pacific Five-O locking carabiner.


*"attached to the tree from the ground all the way up" * = Nice! 

I was wondering if that made sense to anybody else. This is what I plan on using also. I'm thinking of using a braking plate instead of a screamer because I could test it out, adjust and re-use it.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

alukban said:


> *"attached to the tree from the ground all the way up" * = Nice!
> 
> I was wondering if that made sense to anybody else. This is what I plan on using also. I'm thinking of using a braking plate instead of a screamer because I could test it out, adjust and re-use it.


Makes sense to me.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

sawtoothscream said:


> is the beal dyna rope really needed?  amazon pushed it back again and now its saying it will be here around the 14th even though its instock. thinking about canceling it



I think someone posted a similar lanyard by PMI in one of these RC harness arguments here that would work as well. As long as the lanyard is dynamic - any brand north of 20 kN would be fine.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

TP: There has been no arguments on this thread from anybody who has actually hunted out of both. 244 post and the only negative comments have been from people who haven't hunted out of one. If they read the first post they shouldn't not be commenting. if someone wants to be negative about r/c harnesses, let me suggest you start your own thread.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Sawtooth- my tether is the 32" PMI Dynamic Lanyard that I ordered directly from PMI. Blackjack Mountain Outfitters also sells a dynamic lanyard.


----------



## Brittdog (Jan 4, 2008)

tag for later


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

tpcollins said:


> On another note, my lifeline and prusik rope were recommended by BMO Rescue - the prusik knot grabs really tight and quick. I have spare set at home so today I think I'll wet them down and ensure I get the same holding ability as when dry . . .


I took the Bluewater lifeline and 3 different brands of prussic lanyards and soaked them in a bucket of water for about 10 minutes. While still dripping, all the prusiks grabbed tight - I'm good.




thirdhandman said:


> TP: There has been no arguments on this thread from anybody who has actually hunted out of both. 244 post and the only negative comments have been from people who haven't hunted out of one. If they read the first post they shouldn't not be commenting. if someone wants to be negative about r/c harnesses, let me suggest you start your own thread.


Jim - who you talking to with this?


----------



## eric69 (Jan 11, 2012)

Too bad I didn't see this thread last year. I bought the biggest harness I could find at REI in December last year and it is snug just going over my jeans. My bibs only have a 1 way zipper on them, so I either need to cut a hole or get one of those harnesses you guys mentioned that I can put on over the bibs. 

Anyway, I did discover the joys of hanging by the neck on my full-body harness this year. Since I don't have linesmans loops on my RCH, I used my old harness to put up tree steps. Once up, I attached a lifeline and dropped the linesman belt to the ground. But when I came down I needed both hands to redo one of the steps, so I used the lifeline for support. I became very aware of just how my face would be smashed into the steps if I had taken a sudden fall with my full body harness.

Good info in this thread.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> I took the Bluewater lifeline and 3 different brands of prussic lanyards and soaked them in a bucket of water for about 10 minutes. While still dripping, all the prusiks grabbed tight - I'm good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think someone posted a similar lanyard by PMI in one of these RC harness arguments here that would work as well. As long as the lanyard is dynamic - any brand north of 20 kN would be fine.

There has been so much back and forth by various AT'ers on the other threads. This thread has generally been pretty good. Not really point a finger at all. Sorry if it came across that way.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

eric69 said:


> Too bad I didn't see this thread last year. I bought the biggest harness I could find at REI in December last year and it is snug just going over my jeans. My bibs only have a 1 way zipper on them, so I either need to cut a hole or get one of those harnesses you guys mentioned that I can put on over the bibs.
> 
> Anyway, I did discover the joys of hanging by the neck on my full-body harness this year. Since I don't have linesmans loops on my RCH I used my old harness to put up tree steps. Once up, I attached a lifeline and dropped the linesman belt to the ground. But when I came down I needed both hands to redo one of the steps, so I used the lifeline for support. I became very aware of just how my face would be smashed into the steps if I had taken a sudden fall with my full body harness.
> 
> Good info in this thread.


Take that same scenario and think about climbing down a ladder stand. Can anybody say face plant into the ladder rung. Could easily be a 4th rung knock out. Then consider the suspension trauma hanging there knocked out. Not for me thank you.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

houser52 said:


> Sawtooth- my tether is the 32" PMI Dynamic Lanyard that I ordered directly from PMI. Blackjack Mountain Outfitters also sells a dynamic lanyard.


thanks, just got a email back fronm the company and they said my beal will ship the 9th. If not im going to cancel and move on.

But what do you gain from using them? anything better than hooking directly to the life line or in my case the HSS rope style line?


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

sawtoothscream said:


> thanks, just got a email back fronm the company and they said my beal will ship the 9th. If not im going to cancel and move on.
> 
> But what do you gain from using them? anything better than hooking directly to the life line or in my case the HSS rope style line?


Several advantages. 
Using a tether gets the prusik away from your belt line. It's a real pain to slide the prusik or or down the lifeline if it's right there at your belly. Been there. Done that.
Having a tether also lets you take more than one step before moving the prusik up or down as you climb the ladder or sticks.
When sitting on stand the tether will allow you more freedom of movement, left, right or standing.


----------



## eric69 (Jan 11, 2012)

thirdhandman said:


> Take that same scenario and think about climbing down a ladder stand. Can anybody say face plant into the ladder rung. Could easily be a 4th rung knock out. Then consider the suspension trauma hanging there knocked out. Not for me thank you.


That would be nicer than a face plant into my steps -- they are 1" square tubes coming out either side of a vertical tube. I was imagining catching one of those in the eye socket. Guess I wouldn't need to worry about a rescue strap after that.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

houser52 said:


> Several advantages.
> Using a tether gets the prusik away from your belt line. It's a real pain to slide the prusik or or down the lifeline if it's right there at your belly. Been there. Done that.
> Having a tether also lets you take more than one step before moving the prusik up or down as you climb the ladder or sticks.
> When sitting on stand the tether will allow you more freedom of movement, left, right or standing.


thanks, hope ill have the dang thing by monday


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

sawtoothscream said:


> thanks, just got a email back fronm the company and they said my beal will ship the 9th. If not im going to cancel and move on.
> 
> *But what do you gain from using them? * anything better than hooking directly to the life line or in my case the HSS rope style line?


The Beal is a dynamic rope, not static - I think you'd definitely know the difference if you fell comparing the two.


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

This might be a touch "off topic", but the other day we were watching The Sportsman Channel (on Dish.) There was a tree stand ad promoting a national brand. I won't mention the brand. Anyways, it was a very recent ad for a currently available tree stand, and guess what: *The guy was climbing up what looked like "Buck Steps" at the bottom, and sticks above (to a stand already in place) WITHOUT any safety harness or linesman belt.* I know many people do it (and you kind of have to if you're going up a regular ladder stand.) But I thought to myself "how uncool" to create an add without promoting the usage of a fall restraint!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

For ladder stands. Why not tie in above your head to the tree, let the rope go to the bottom of the ladder and tie in there. Just slide the prusik up as you go.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

OK. I've been reading here a lot and learning. Like you guys, I've also been looking at what arborists and rock climbers use. I wanted SIMPLER with less loops and a carbiners all over the place but also wanted some shock absorption that was "tunable" (if possible) so that I can still more likely walk away from a fall AND practice.

My new setup plan is to tie to the tree with 11 mm static rope (trying to be more specific) that goes all the way to the ground (so it can be used for self rescue) then attach to that using 9.5 mm static rope (10' where 6' is "brake line") via a Blake's hitch that then attaches to my r/c harness through a shock absorbing Kong KISA friction plate/shock absorber (because it is multiple use and adjustable vs. a screamer) that has a simple loop + girth hitch to then attach to the carabiner on the harness (so that I don't have metal on metal contact that makes noise - though one can hook the carabiner directly to the friction plate).

Thusly... 









FWIW, I find the Blake's hitch much, much easier to use and slide than the Prusik loop.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

alukban said:


> OK. I've been reading here a lot and learning. Like you guys, I've also been looking at what arborists and rock climbers use. I wanted SIMPLER with less loops and a carbiners all over the place but also wanted some shock absorption that was "tunable" (if possible) so that I can still more likely walk away from a fall AND practice.
> 
> My new setup plan is to tie to the tree with* 11 mm static rope (trying to be more specific) that goes all the way to the ground (so it can be used for self rescue) *then attach to that using 9.5 mm static rope (10' where 6' is "brake line") via a Blake's hitch that then attaches to my r/c harness through a shock absorbing Kong KISA friction plate/shock absorber (because it is multiple use and adjustable vs. a screamer) that has a simple loop + girth hitch to then attach to the carabiner on the harness (so that I don't have metal on metal contact that makes noise - though one can hook the carabiner directly to the friction plate).
> 
> ...



The knot that goes around the tree looks more like an overhand and not the stronger figure 8 knot. If you fell, what would be your procedure for self rescue with this setup?

Your 9.5mm to 11mm rope ratio is north of 86% and not within the accepted range for a friction knot to activate properly. Good luck.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

Uh oh, no good eh?

Let me rethink it then! Eeek!

PS. The knot for the tree is an alpine knot.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

alukban said:


> Uh oh, no good eh?
> 
> Let me rethink it then! Eeek!
> 
> PS. The knot for the tree is an alpine knot.



The only thing I could find about the alpine knot strength is:

*However, some quoted breaking strains are as low as 53% to 58% – similar to breaking strains for many other knots.*

The figure 8 knot is rated at 80% of the rope's strength.

Prusik rope to lifeline ratio is usually in the 65% - 75% or so. A 7mm or 8mm prusik lanyard should be about right for an 11mm lifeline. And I've only seen double tail prusik lanyards used as friction stops, not that the alpine won't grip, I would question whether the 9.5mm "coils" will satisfactory grip the 11mm rope since their diameters are so close.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

I was wondering about the diameters a lot too!

I had seen a lot of the arborist's youtube videos where they use the same rope for the main line and Blake's hitch in a DRT with split tail. It did not make sense to me because I already understood the "more grabbing power" of the smaller diameter Prusik thing but arborists seem to love the knot. FWIW, it seems to grip AND slide beautifully and I did find some other links where they drop test the Blake's hitch with a friggin' boulder from a tree - LOL! The Blake's hitch performed like a champ.

That alpine knot thing was something I had just tried for the pic because I saw it used in another vid as part of a way to get an anchor point with a SRT for ascending but still being able to retrieve/untie the rope from the ground. I'll probably actually use the figure 8 but with an accessory line tied to the loop so I can yank it from the ground to untie it (lighter to pack in that way).

It was from this (at time = 3:25):






I dunno how trustworthy these vids are so I like to check elsewhere also! I know pretty much near nothing about climbing and lines and only started with a climbing stand and r/c harness this season because I am friggin' afraid of heights - EEEK! I do sorta put more trust in the techniques of arborists than rock climbers or "industrial safety harness" users because they are doing stuff that we are doing.

Oh yeah, here're those vids for perusal...

Blake's htich









Drop test of Blake's hitch





I have been practicing with the rig I pictured BTW. It works a treat - assuming everything seems to be safe. The Blake's hitch is awesome and works REALLY SMOOTHLY. I like that there are kinda less carabiners and loops all over the place, that it is kinda simpler in that it just ropes and that friction plate until your get to the r/c harness. For self-rescue, the foot friction thing instead of the Prusik + foot loops seems to work very well in a pinch - been practicing that too. Because you are suspended via that Blake's hitch safety line anyway, you can take your time to put alpine knots in the rope for your foot! HA HA! I also tried wrapping the rope around my foot twice and then stepping on the rope and it works beeeyootifully also. I can take my time and "hang out." It is great to learn the alternatives for self-rescue for in case I lose or drop the dang carabiners + loops or something.

That Kong KISA thing is brand new to me and there doesn't seem to be much "easily accessible" information on it. It seems solid and simple though. They're only about the price of a carabiner on amazon and are re-usable so I though it would be worth a try. If y'all have any info on it, I would sure appreciate that also


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I agree with TP that the friction knot is too close in diameter to the lifeline to work properly.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

Go with 8mm or 7mm?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

alukban said:


> Go with 8mm or 7mm?


I would if you're using split tail or a continuos loop lanyard (even though there's only a single bearing point) - and it should have dynamic characteristics so that the "stretching" facilitates the coils gripping the lifeline better. I posted a thread recently about maybe some people shouldn't switch to a RC harness - don't take this wrong but to me your setup is what i was referring to. I think too many guys are thinking of ways to self rescue by repelling all the way to the ground with numerous gadgets that the rock climbers use, and could wind up worse off with a limited amount of experience with this equipment.

My thoughts are hunters should align their lifelines directly over their climbing sticks. And the tie in point when seated is above their shoulders with some sort dynamic lanyard between a friction knot and harness that is taut when seated. Getting back to the platform or climbing sticks should be paramount - not hanging there trying to scale down the lifeline by manipulating various self rescue apparatuses that you haven't spent a lot of time working with . . . but I digress. And if you use a climber, I guess I would have a lifeline with knots every foot or so like the ropes we use to have in gym class so you hopefully could scale down with . . . climbers scare me.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

No harm, no foul... 

I'm trying to learn so I don't get myself kilt so I appreciate any and all comments! I appreciate the time anybody spends to respond 

I've sorta read the dynamic line thing both ways. They supposedly give their safety margin of stretch over a given length so some folks argue that they do not provide that much safety margin if only used over a short length - that a screamer/zipper or friction plate may work better.

I would love to see somebody actually test stuff out and somewhat standardize stuff.


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm very intrigued by this RC harness notion, and I think it certainly has a valid use in our field. What are y'all using to connect the harness to the tree/prussik, I've seen in two videos the use of a "rope style tree strap" that has the prussic is directly connected via biner to the front of the harness, are there any other suggested methods? I have life lines for all my stands, but due to the length I don't think it would work the same, as the length would move below you, potentially notifying the wee beasties of my presence. Any suggestions? (use small words :wink


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Harness, screw locking carabiner, black 32" dynamic lanyard, screw locking carabiner, blue schwabisch prusik, green lifeline looped around the tree.


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

schwabisch is a made up word, has to be:mg:... I know you made it up just to mess with me. kidding. mostly.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

poorscouserbob said:


> schwabisch is a made up word, has to be:mg:... I know you made it up just to mess with me. kidding. mostly.


I prefer the distel hitch though.


----------



## Chupacabra (Jul 10, 2006)

I switched this to a R/C harness year and would never go back to a 4-point. I find it less "in the way" when I am sitting, and during shooting, than my 4-point was. An added benefit was using it when I hung my hang-on stands this year. Being able to suspend in it on a line tied in above the stand location and work hands-free was awesome, and surprisingly comfortable.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Youtube video of a "short" 30" Beal dynamic rope versus a static Dyneema daisy chain - 80kg = 176 pounds . . . I would think the PMI dynamic lanyard would yield similar results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJPc-moGhWk&list=PLRLn96gdRUdksixJ0B_Cz1CFzPZ3v_9Lw


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

poorscouserbob said:


> schwabisch is a made up word, has to be:mg:... I know you made it up just to mess with me. kidding. mostly.



Here you go. How to tie the schwabisch and distel hitch knots. They grab the lifeline great and release so much easier after being loaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4EJ2KHg1FU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmLnetB50w


----------



## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

poorscouserbob said:


> schwabisch is a made up word, has to be:mg:... I know you made it up just to mess with me. kidding. mostly.


I use the Schwabisch. 4 over 1 prussik. Grabs super quick but also releases easy. I have seen the Blakes hitch can get super tight.

Arborpod on youtube shows how and why the Schwabisch is a great hitch.


----------



## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

I use the red white and black arbormaster.
http://www.wesspur.com/rope/arbor-master-blue-streak-rope.html

I also use the Ultra tech 3/8" for Schwabisch .
http://www.wesspur.com/prusiks/heat-resistant-prusik-cords.html

This is a good site to find out if your hitch cord works good with your climbing line. Always just go low and slow until you are sure of your equipment.

I use the yellow jacket below.
http://www.wesspur.com/saddles/new-tribe-saddles.html
So comfy I forget I have it on. I have also done 4 hour sits with no tree stand and the saddle is comfy. The big leg pads distribute evenly. I would rather sit in it than a nice padded office chair....in October/November of course.


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

Rock climbing harness may have saved my butt this morning. I was stretching and lost my balance, at the last moment I grabbed my tether that goes from my belt bucket to my safety line before I fell backwards off my stand. Not saying I would have fallen, but if that line was behind my back I never could have grabbed it and held on to regain my balance.


----------



## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

Fun way to exit your stand at night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S2N0OVbsi0


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

alukban: How long have you been using a rock climber. Looks like you are picking things up quickly.


----------



## thwackaddict (Sep 1, 2006)

Starting at 3:00 in the video below is the set up that a major nation wide tree service used for decades. One rope.... no split tail....blakes hitch.

Doesn't get any simpler or safer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1RSzKkBOWc


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

thirdhandman said:


> alukban: How long have you been using a rock climber. Looks like you are picking things up quickly.


Since last week! LOL!

That Beal dynamic rope thing looks awesome!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

You will do well alukban!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbs_up


----------



## baz77 (Jan 21, 2003)

Just got my Misty Mountain Milroc harness in the mail today....Man I wish I would have switched years ago!!


----------



## Eric W (Jan 16, 2007)

I am waiting for my HSS harness to arrive. I suspect I will figure a way to use the lineman loops to attach "rock harness" style. (I also half wonder if I will use my new climber as the platform for my Tree Saddle from time to time.)


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

baz77 said:


> Just got my Misty Mountain Milroc harness in the mail today....Man I wish I would have switched years ago!!


I like the tan webbing of the Milroc. .


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> Here you go. How to tie the schwabisch and distel hitch knots. They grab the lifeline great and release so much easier after being loaded.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4EJ2KHg1FU
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmLnetB50w



Early on the Schwabisch was one of my leading friction knots but you would need an eye to eye rope lanyard to tie up. So I went with the closed prusik loop so I could have (4) sets already attached to my existing lifelines, eliminating having to tie in the dark.

But I don't recall the ability to push down on the upper coils and have it release. I still intend for my setup to be inline with my climbing sticks but with the release option of the Schwabisch, I may have to rethink this sometime in the future.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> Early on the Schwabisch was one of my leading friction knots but you would need an eye to eye rope lanyard to tie up. So I went with the closed prusik loop so I could have (4) sets already attached to my existing lifelines, eliminating having to tie in the dark.
> 
> But I don't recall the ability to push down on the upper coils and have it release. I still intend for my setup to be inline with my climbing sticks but with the release option of the Schwabisch, I may have to rethink this sometime in the future.


You can still make and leave a schwabisch at each lifeline if you want to. I leave them hanging at all my stands. Just stick the carabiner through the ends when ready to climb and remove the carabiner when you leave.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> You can still make and leave a schwabisch at each lifeline if you want to. I leave them hanging at all my stands. Just stick the carabiner through the ends when ready to climb and remove the carabiner when you leave.


My current prusiks are tied in a loop and would be a bit short if I untied them and retied with 2 eyes instead of the current "one". I do have some 8mm prusik rope that I just made one like yours to play with - I'll keep it in my pack. I do like the eye to eyes that thwackaddict had in the middle link. I think the rating on the 30" 3/8" for $20 might work, at that price I might get a couple. Thanks.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

I use 46" of 3/8" Tenex-Tec per hitch. After tying the double fisherman's knots on each end I wind up with a 24" long cord used to make the 4 over 1 schwabisch. Tenex-Tec is rated at 6100 pounds and is only .45 a foot. Lots of arborists use it.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Thanks houser, does it only come in pink or is that just the Tiffany version?


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

Dang... this thread keeps on giving :thumbs_up :thumbs_up

If tpcollins is looking at it, so am I! :wink:


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

Quick question..what mm rope you guys using for your prussik? I'm using 11mm (7/16) static for the lifeline. 

Is 6 mm or 7mm good for the prussik rope?

Thanks


----------



## stormsearch (Sep 29, 2006)

I would use 7 or 8mm. I currently have 7mm on my 11mm mainline.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> Thanks houser, does it only come in pink or is that just the Tiffany version?


Lol, that's 3/8" and it comes in blue but TreeStuff has a limited supply of this lovely shade of red. Sounds like different diameters of Tenex-Tec have a different color code but I might be wrong.


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks stormsearch


----------



## Bullseyehunter3 (Jan 24, 2007)

Doesn't look like you need help to me Jim. As usual you are doing just fine.


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

Basic questions. I have the Coulior.

It shows tying off differently than rappelling/belaying. Tying off through belt and leg loop with rope, and rappelling through rappelling loop with locking biner.

http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aak...579/files/M10310_A Couloir harness IS WEB.pdf

Using the RC harness for hunting and self rescue. Does it matter if I tie off or attach biner through the rappelling/belaying loop?

Using biner rough the rappelling loop seems more convenient. But I want to be safe and I am not k owledgeable about the stresses of belaying/rappelling versus tying in as it relates to falling out of a treestand.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

sojourner said:


> Basic questions. I have the Coulior.
> 
> It shows tying off differently than rappelling/belaying. Tying off through belt and leg loop with rope, and rappelling through rappelling loop with locking biner.
> 
> ...



One of the first harnesses I tried was the Calidris - I like padding. When I first connected to the belay loop and then suspended from it, it first pulled up on the leg straps and then the at the waist. This caused me to tip a bit horizontal or to a sitting position - could be what rock climbers want if they fall off a cliff. I suppose if you put more slack in the leg straps it might minimize this. I don't know the reason "normal" climbing they tie around the two loops versus just the belay loop - doesn't make sense to me either.

I found that the single waist loop Petzl Aspir (or Jim's BD Vario) pulls basically at the waist loop and keeps you more upright (higher center of gravity). That would be the preferred position I'd want if I fell.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

sojourner said:


> Basic questions. I have the Coulior.
> 
> It shows tying off differently than rappelling/belaying. Tying off through belt and leg loop with rope, and rappelling through rappelling loop with locking biner.
> 
> ...



From what I understand, when climbing, climbers are tied in through the waist belt and leg loop to give them 2 points of attachment to their harness. Since they are connected to the rope all the time and there is constant motion it makes sense that there would be a lot of wear at those attachment points. If one point should fail they would still be attached to the rope and not fall to the ground.


----------



## k&j8 (Mar 16, 2012)

sojourner said:


> Basic questions. I have the Coulior.
> 
> It shows tying off differently than rappelling/belaying. Tying off through belt and leg loop with rope, and rappelling through rappelling loop with locking biner.
> 
> ...


I have the Couloir as well and asked the same question. I read somewhere during my research that rock climbers tie into the crotch loop and waist belt to give more than one "capture" point in the event of a fall and they do not tie into the belay loop because it can get wore during belaying and may break more easily. Everything I read suggested the belay loop is as strong as any other part of the harness and should work for what we are using it for and most folks here seem to be attaching at the belay loop with a carabiner. I did not care for the carabiner in my lap while seated or at my waist while standing so I tied in as per the instructions. I tied in with Yale Bandit rope using the figure 8 follow through knot. I have found this works better for me.


----------



## dogzlife (Jul 11, 2004)

houser52 said:


> Harness, screw locking carabiner, black 32" dynamic lanyard, screw locking carabiner, blue schwabisch prusik, green lifeline looped around the tree.


This seems like a very good system. Shock absorption and the ability to easily lower to the ground in the event of an injury from the fall (assuming you can easily reach the schwabisch while hanging).


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

So I bit the bullet and picked up a Black Diamond Momentum. tried it on, They had a rope for me to sit in it, and move around with it on. I am actually sitting here at work with it on, much to the laughter of my co-workers. Lights out more comfortable than my tree harness. Only downside doesn't have hook ups for a linemans belt for hanging a stand and so on. (realized that this morning of course). But if I am hanging the stand, setting up the lifeline's and so on, using the other harness won't be a big deal. but when it comes to actually being in the stand. I do not plan on falling out of the tree, but at 50 bucks I feel this is a better purchase than other available tree stand harnesses.


----------



## kcbuckeraser (Sep 7, 2005)

snapcrackpop said:


> Video of RC harness. Demo of shooting and falling positions.
> 
> http://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg


Awesome. I was wondering about how it would be easier to get back on stand etc. This video made it much easier to see! Nice work and thank you for sharing!


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks. Ive moved my safety strap to head height now and can still shoot without interface. The rope is now tight when I sit.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

snapcrackpop said:


> Thanks. Ive moved my safety strap to head height now and can still shoot without interface. The rope is now tight when I sit.


:thumbs_up


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

snapcrackpop said:


> Thanks. Ive moved my safety strap to head height now and can still shoot without interface. The rope is now tight when I sit.


x2 . . . :thumbs_up

I'm sure this thread will help some despite a few negative responses . . .


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Hey snap: I think if you do your test with the strap that high and lightly snug, when you fall it will not let your butt make it down to the floor. Also If you want to take a quick snooze, lean back and run the tether in front and snug it down tight. That will help keep ya upright. That is one of my favorite positions on longer hunts. LOL


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks for the replies to my question. I just ordered the Gym Dandy, which has one connection point. Talking to the person at mistymountain, with the Coulior, tying in at the rappelling loop w/ a carabiner was a no go. We talked about using it as treestand harness.

I think I will use the Gym Dandy with biner on Prussic for the time being. Later, when I am more confident with my knot tying skills, I will use the Coulior also.

All I want to do is shoot big bucks safely. I was up until 2AM reading all about biners, belaying, cross stressing biners, locking, etc. ... 

And then some of the drama and back and forth on this thread. My head is spinning.

But I like e idea of self rescue instead of taking pressure off legs and waiting until someone comes to rescue me.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Oh its possible to self-rescue in a full body too, if the teather is tight (proper lenght) you should be able to reach your stand or ladder.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

sojourner said:


> Thanks for the replies to my question. I just ordered the Gym Dandy, which has one connection point. Talking to the person at mistymountain, with the Coulior, tying in at the rappelling loop w/ a carabiner was a no go. We talked about using it as treestand harness.
> 
> I think I will use the Gym Dandy with biner on Prussic for the time being. Later, when I am more confident with my knot tying skills, I will use the Coulior also.
> 
> ...


Good for you, one can never learn too much . . .


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

dogzlife said:


> This seems like a very good system. Shock absorption and the ability to easily lower to the ground in the event of an injury from the fall *(assuming you can easily reach the schwabisch while hanging).*


That's a good reason to try different lengths of tethers because everybody's reach is different. With my reach(48" from my belly button to my thumb while reaching straight up), I use a 32" tether(dynamic lanyard) but the tether is only part of the total overall length. 

You can get by with a shorter tether but the shorter it is the more often you have to slide the prusik as you climb. Too long of a tether and it creates too much slack when climbing because you can't extend your arm enough to take all the slack out and as you said, you won't be able to reach the prusik if you're left hanging.

Does this make sense?


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

snapcrackpop said:


> Oh its possible to self-rescue in a full body too, if the teather is tight (proper lenght) you should be able to reach your stand or ladder.


I am thinking self-rescue if stand and sticks (if using them) fail and fall to the deck. 

I saw the video the other member posted on the other RC thread where he descended using a second Prussic, caribiner and sling. It seemed slick.

Then a all the Cornell climbing videos I've watched are neat and gave me some ideas.


----------



## 3griffs (Oct 2, 2013)

I have my tethers, my Ropemans, caribiners, harness, etc. If deer climb trees, I can safely let them down before I shoot them.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

This is as good a reason as any to wear any harness properly. This is a good friend of mine and the biggest reason I push harness so hard.


----------



## WildmanWilson (Jul 30, 2009)

Seems to me its a royal PITA to have to build all the rope and get everything ready just to use the RC harness. Why can't you just buy everything ready to go. I would go the RC harness if I didn't have to learn all the knots and what rope is right for this or that...Too much hassle. I'll just buy a regular one and be done with it.


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

WildmanWilson said:


> Seems to me its a royal PITA to have to build all the rope and get everything ready just to use the RC harness. Why can't you just buy everything ready to go. I would go the RC harness if I didn't have to learn all the knots and what rope is right for this or that...Too much hassle. I'll just buy a regular one and be done with it.


 You can use a climbing harness and a tether hooked to a tree strap just like traditional bowhunters harnesses, these guys are being strapped in from the ground up.


----------



## BuckeyeRed (Sep 7, 2006)

WildmanWilson said:


> Seems to me its a royal PITA to have to build all the rope and get everything ready just to use the RC harness. Why can't you just buy everything ready to go. I would go the RC harness if I didn't have to learn all the knots and what rope is right for this or that...Too much hassle. I'll just buy a regular one and be done with it.


If you have a linesman rope you have all you need. I just use my lone wolf linemans rope that I used prior to switching to the rch. I think it looks much more complicated process than it actually is. If you use a life line, a pursik knot is all that is needed. You don't need a dynamic rope, static will do just fine. The name of the game is saving your hind end. The different knots and lanyard choices are just modifications that guys use to make the setup more their own and improve on the concept.


----------



## Extreme vft17 (Mar 29, 2007)

sub


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

BuckeyeRed said:


> If you have a linesman rope you have all you need. I just use my lone wolf linemans rope that I used prior to switching to the rch. I think it looks much more complicated process than it actually is. If you use a life line, a pursik knot is all that is needed. You don't need a dynamic rope, static will do just fine. The name of the game is saving your hind end. The different knots and lanyard choices are just modifications that guys use to make the setup more their own and improve on the concept.


Static rope stops ya much quicker so make sure the static rope is plenty strong enough and tethered short. Make it so if you fall you can't go below the platform and you will be fine. If using a ladder or hang on stand, be sure to stay on a short leash as you are climbing.


----------



## CRE10 (Oct 12, 2014)

Can you climb lineman style using the Black Diamond Vario?


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

WildmanWilson said:


> Seems to me its a royal PITA to have to build all the rope and get everything ready just to use the RC harness. Why can't you just buy everything ready to go. I would go the RC harness if I didn't have to learn all the knots and what rope is right for this or that...Too much hassle. I'll just buy a regular one and be done with it.


get a HSS rope style tree strap. comes with most of what you need. Will just need the harness and the dynamic lanyard if you choose. Simple


----------



## OhWell (Aug 21, 2013)

I will try to post some pics of my rig tomorrow. It is super simple and very reliable.

I have another reason to use a RC harness. They are actually cooler !! I have been basically hunting on the move all season. There are only two spots I have sat more than once. When carrying all my gear I would have to carry in the full body harness because they do not allow as much air to move around your body. Now I can put my harness on at the road and hike in wearing it.

I ended up getting a Singing Rock harness for less than $30.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I do by connecting one end of the line to the belay loop, the other side has the prusik connected by the carabiner to the belay loop. This makes it a little easier to screw in steps. Haven't tried climbing sticks.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

WildmanWilson said:


> Seems to me its a royal PITA to have to build all the rope and get everything ready just to use the RC harness. Why can't you just buy everything ready to go. I would go the RC harness if I didn't have to learn all the knots and what rope is right for this or that...Too much hassle. I'll just buy a regular one and be done with it.


I wouldn't think compromising on ensuring safety would be a pita, if it the end result promotes the ability to be able to hunt again another day. I'd prefer taking the time to know exactly what I have and how it works correctly versus crossing my fingers and hope I'm good.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

WildmanWilson said:


> Seems to me its a royal PITA to have to build all the rope and get everything ready just to use the RC harness. Why can't you just buy everything ready to go. I would go the RC harness if I didn't have to learn all the knots and what rope is right for this or that...Too much hassle. I'll just buy a regular one and be done with it.


Wildman: If you have the ropes etc. from a full body harness, they will work for a rock climber. Keep it tethered short and you should be fine.


----------



## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

dynamic or static don't make much difference in falling 3-6 feet.


----------



## sb05 (Oct 14, 2005)

Hi to all. I don't post a lot here but this R/C Harness is what I want to try. I have two harnesses I'm looking at and would like you opinion on them. The Black Diamond Vario Speed Harness and the Misty Mountain Gym Dandy Harness. I know some of you have these and would like your opinion on them.
Thanks for any input.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

The reasons I like the Gym Dandy is because the waist belt comes completely apart. That way I just step through the legs loops and thread the belt like a normal belt. So much easier for me to put on especially with multiple layers of pants. It was also the most comfortable when hanging from it.


----------



## 64220511473out! (Jun 3, 2012)

The only negative I can report is if I keep the tether short enough to be tight when seated like you're supposed to, when I stand and turn to face the tree the tether wraps around my waist and gets a bit short. In other words if a deer is behind the tree and on my bow arm side, shooting is more difficult then with the tether on the back of the neck. And no pockets!


----------



## Dan-0 (Dec 4, 2007)

I hunt with a Vario Speed, and I'm done with 4 pt. Harnesses or vest style harnesses.


----------



## WildmanWilson (Jul 30, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> I wouldn't think compromising on ensuring safety would be a pita, if it the end result promotes the ability to be able to hunt again another day. I'd prefer taking the time to know exactly what I have and how it works correctly versus crossing my fingers and hope I'm good.


I don't think using a tradition harness is a death sentence or necessarily a compromise. I wanted to try the RC harness but you can not get anyone to explain how and what you need and how its used. I've seen a lot of bickering over what should be used but that's about it. They may as well be speaking Chinese. A good tutorial would be nice.


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

Go to moosejaw.com, lots of harnesses, 20% off


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

WildmanWilson said:


> I don't think using a tradition harness is a death sentence or necessarily a compromise. I wanted to try the RC harness but you can not get anyone to explain how and what you need and how its used. I've seen a lot of bickering over what should be used but that's about it. They may as well be speaking Chinese. A good tutorial would be nice.


There are currently several "RC harness" threads that show pics and list the equipment being used. Just click on them and start reading.


----------



## CRE10 (Oct 12, 2014)

So you can climb lineman style with the Vario?


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

WildmanWilson said:


> I don't think using a tradition harness is a death sentence or necessarily a compromise. I wanted to try the RC harness but you can not get anyone to explain how and what you need and how its used. I've seen a lot of bickering over what should be used but that's about it. They may as well be speaking Chinese. A good tutorial would be nice.


 Careful what you ask for, these guys could make a butt wiping tutorial confusing....


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

WildmanWilson said:


> I don't think using a tradition harness is a death sentence or necessarily a compromise. I wanted to try the RC harness but you can not get anyone to explain how and what you need and how its used. I've seen a lot of bickering over what should be used but that's about it. They may as well be speaking Chinese. A good tutorial would be nice.


-HSS rope style tree strap

-harness of choice 

If you want you can add a dynamic rope from the harness to the prusik knot that comes with tthe HSS set up


----------



## fatsbucknut (Apr 29, 2005)

Ib4Hoyt said:


> dynamic or static don't make much difference in falling 3-6 feet.


Rock climbers disagree with this


----------



## Mr.1 Shot (Jun 22, 2010)

I have a 20 Feet Up .... What a shame he couldn't hang on a little longer. I love it and will never go back to a full harness.


----------



## BuckeyeRed (Sep 7, 2006)

1.)Get a 6'5 to 7' section of climbing rope (my rope is 9mm)
2.)Tie a figure 8 knot at one end
3.)Tie an overhand knot on the other end
4.)Tie a Prusik knot to the climbing rope
5.)Attach carabiner to Prusik knot loop
6.)Wrap figure 8 end around tree
7.)Run overhand knot end / Prusik knot / carabiner thru figure 8 loop twice
8.)Pull/push tight to tree
9.)Clip carabiner to rch
10.)Adjust length of tether as needed via Prusik knot


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

fatsbucknut said:


> Rock climbers disagree with this


 Prove it


----------



## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

crankn101 said:


> Prove it


what he said. had a rock climbing harness for 20 + years.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

crankn101 said:


> Prove it


Go to a rock climbing forum and ask why - getting your azz chewed there makes AT look like a day care center. Climbers use dynamic as a top rope because it stretches to absorb a fall. Falling 3 - 6 feet with a static rope would put your baby makers down by your ankles. But if you think there's no difference - good luck.


----------



## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

tpcollins said:


> Go to a rock climbing forum and ask why - getting your azz chewed there makes AT look like a day care center. Climbers use dynamic as a top rope because it stretches to absorb a fall. Falling just a couple feet with a static rope might put your baby makers down by your ankles. But if you think there's no difference - good luck.


you are so funny,, you keep saying its going to put your nads in your guts or something,, im almost sure you have never even had one on! you sound like it anyway.


----------



## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

dynamic does stretch but not at 6 feet,, this is not a bungee cord type rope were talking about, i doubt you can make it stretch a 1/4 inch in 6 feet.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

One to two feet no big problem. 6' and a dynamic rope will hurt, but a static rope, You might wish you were dead. A small amount of give at 6 foot is huge.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

6' is too much. 2' is more likely if attached correctly.


----------



## BuckeyeRed (Sep 7, 2006)

Falling from your tree stand is never going to be an enjoyable experience, regardless of how well you think you're prepared. It's always going to be unexpected, scary, and you're most likely going to bang an elbow or knee on something hard in the process. 

It's designed to save you, not a thrill ride.

Regardless of your choice of lanyard, it's not going to be fun.


----------



## BETTERTHANWORK (Jan 14, 2010)

I will be buying the BD Vario Speed Harness, and HSS rope style tree strap. If you were me, would you add a Dynamic rope with this set up? Or would I be fine without it?

Thanks


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

BETTERTHANWORK said:


> I will be buying the BD Vario Speed Harness, and HSS rope style tree strap. If you were me, would you add a Dynamic rope with this set up? Or would I be fine without it?
> 
> Thanks


Keep it on a short leash and you should be fine.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Ib4Hoyt said:


> dynamic does stretch but not at 6 feet,, this is not a bungee cord type rope were talking about, i doubt you can make it stretch a 1/4 inch in 6 feet.


Then try it and report back .




Ib4Hoyt said:


> you are so funny,, you keep saying its going to put your nads in your guts or something,, *im almost sure you have never even had one on!* you sound like it anyway.


Actually I'm trying to be serious. Maybe somebody will report back this year that they fell a few feet with a static rope and tell us what it was like.

Never had one on - really?


----------



## MissingLink (Oct 11, 2014)

I've been using a black diamond couloir harness for about 2 years, and considering switching back to a regular vest style. Don't get me wrong: the rock climbing harness is awesome. It's light weight, it's comfy, and easy to use. But I have some concerns.

I have done a little rock climbing in the past (not much), but enough to have fallen and know what it feels like. When you fall while rock climbing, you are already facing the rope's attachment point, so you don't spin. You are also anticipating the fall (usually), and are prepared to both grab the rope and brace yourself for the impact. None of this is true for hunting. 

If I fell while hunting, I'm likely to be facing away from the tree, *so I'll be spun rapidly 180degrees*. I'm likely to have stuff in my hands, so I *cannot grab the rope to support my fall*. And, if it is unexpected and I can't grab the rope, I worry the attachment point at my waist will allow my upper body (above waist) to *violently bend backward*---with what kind of damage to my back?

Anyone have thoughts on this? I was looking for a video that shows someone falling hands free to see what happens to their back at impact? Do you bend like an upside down "V" ?


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

I did a quick search for stretch and how much better you are with a dynamic rope... .54"-1.08" on a 3-6' fall....


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

MissingLink said:


> I've been using a black diamond couloir harness for about 2 years, and considering switching back to a regular vest style. Don't get me wrong: the rock climbing harness is awesome. It's light weight, it's comfy, and easy to use. But I have some concerns.
> 
> I have done a little rock climbing in the past (not much), but enough to have fallen and know what it feels like. When you fall while rock climbing, you are already facing the rope's attachment point, so you don't spin. You are also anticipating the fall (usually), and are prepared to both grab the rope and brace yourself for the impact. None of this is true for hunting.
> 
> ...


*85% of the time accidents happen while climbing into and out of trees* while climbing we are facing the tree. If tethered correctly while sitting, you can fall 6 inches. How violent would that be?
Falling with any harness will hurt. Recovering after the fall there is a much better chance with the rope in front.


----------



## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

crankn101 said:


> I did a quick search for stretch and how much better you are with a dynamic rope... .54"-1.08" on a 3-6' fall....


saved by that inch...:ballchain


----------



## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

tpcollins said:


> Then try it and report back .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i have slipped and fell maybe a foot- foot and a half while hanging a stand when feet slipped,, it hurts like a sob,, but it don't hurt your nuts!! Not if you got it on right.. its going to hurt anytime you fall in one. i hook short where im not going to fall over foot or 2 if i do fall. i do have the stretchyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy rope,, but i would use dynamic or static and not think anything about it in a tree stand..not going to matter much at 3 foot fall.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

[video]https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/8oqPR5-GLuA?rel=0[/video] * On a lighter note. These guys seem to like the waist attachment.*


----------



## dogzlife (Jul 11, 2004)

Off topic, but check out this guy. An eight foot fall (jump). Probably around 30kn. He's darn fortunate the branch broke. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLGHw75ZMQ&list=UUGVuIDQvRUD1jcUasKWOoqA


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

dogzlife said:


> Off topic, but check out this guy. An eight foot fall (jump). Probably around 30kn. He's darn fortunate the branch broke.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLGHw75ZMQ&list=UUGVuIDQvRUD1jcUasKWOoqA


Link didn't work.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

OK - 1st time in a climbing stand today and first time in a ladder stand on Saturday 

It was raining on Saturday AM so trees were slick enough for me to worry about the main loop around the tree trunk slipping so I added a prusik - nice and taught! I used a carabiner up there because I run the rop all the way to the ground and thus do not have to always bee feeding rope in and out of the figure 8 eye.










Also, I just ran the tether to the main rope right up my chest and up over my left shoulder and kept it taugt. It was extremely comforting! I could lean forward and keep the thing tether taught and still twist at the seat and draw the bow. The tether is totally not in the way. When I stand, the tether loosens and I simply tighten it again and can lean forward and what not. The blake's hitch works just fine and I could even tend it (push it up) one handed. I will be trying a micro pulley and 'biner though to make it easier.










The Kong KISA shock absorber worked fine except... it made metal to metal NOISE when I was climbing up and down. I figure I could put a crocheted wool cozy on it or something 

Something that I have been meaning to ask is how are the dynamic rope tethers for pulling yourself up/climbing? Does it stretch so much to make it weird and unusable? I was hsing the Kong KISA with static line and didn't have that problem, of course, but I had "stretch" from lots of other places in the whole system and was wondering if it would suck to add one more stretchy thing in there.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

#overkill lol.
I have my loop behind the tree to the left then I feed the tag in. My rope is somewhat "fuzzy", with this setup my loop won't slip.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

Overkill is a good thing when yer scared of heights! LOL!

I'm such a woos with this tree thing... I admit it


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Alukban: Please take this as constructive criticism. The ****** and prusik at the top are not needed if you just use a girth hitch. The rope over the left shoulder could very easily get taught in the bow string while shooting. I once had a button down shirt pocket and caught the string on it. It would ruin your day if it happens. Run the rope under your arm and connect to the belay loop. Is the rope on the right attached to a carabiner on your gear loop? That should not be there while hunting. Something else to bump or move on the seat in the heat of the moment. Hope this helps ya, and happy to see you are taking things seriously.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

I did try one test shot with that set up and it seemed to clear plenty. It had no slack and was kinda "pre loaded". I really liked the ultra secure feeling it gave in the stand - pretty much exactly like a seatbelt!










I do see what you are saying though and had it run to the side and behind my arm initially. I just REALLY liked the extra security of feeling the tension on that tether on my shoulder though - so assuring  I'll make sure to test it a lot more, even with the recurves and longbows that have less acute string angles that may give me trouble.

The 'biner on the right is just a spare and the rope behind me at the back of the seat is just the free end of the main rope that I pulled up so nothing is hanging to the ground.

There're are so many things to have to think through with this tree stand business. The r/c harness thing is just one of the MANY things to learn from me. I'm not proud... will take any and ALL advice I can get and move on to (at least try) better techniques and gear in a heartbeat


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I know what you are saying about the secure feeling. I do that in an open shot or loc on stand when taking naps. lol Seriously though, the carabiner and prusik are huge compared to a button and one less thing to think about with a deer in front of you and adrenalin taking over.


----------



## trails end (Dec 16, 2010)

Heading to a rock climbing shop tomorrow. Thanks for all this info. I really felt good doing what I was. Practice using lifelines, and HSS system. Use suspension trauma straps and rescue straps. Really confident until I read this information and watched some videos. Thanks to Jim and all of you who have taken the time to make videos and provide information.


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

Anyone put a screw in step a couple feet below your stand on the opposite side of your climbing sticks for an emergency?


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Sounds like a bad idea. Carry one in your pocket? Great.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I usually put a step just above the platform and on top of the sticks. I like to step down to the stand and the step can't move sideways like a stick can. Also comes in handy in case of the stick failure some how.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> *I usually put a step just above the platform and on top of the sticks.* I like to step down to the stand and the step can't move sideways like a stick can. Also comes in handy in case of the stick failure some how.


Me too, that's where I hang my backpack.


----------



## twyatt (Mar 12, 2007)

I thought about starting a new thread on this, but I'll try it here first. I've been wearing a harness since the HSS Pro Series first came out. 2 years ago I switched to a RC harness, and really thought I loved it, it's more comfortable, I did try hanging in it, and figured it was safer. Well this weekend sitting in my stand I started to wonder. 

I typically use a Lone Wolf stand and sticks, and stay hooked in via lineman's rope as I set each of my sticks going up the tree. Then after setting my last stick and stand, I tie in my HSS rope, and hook into my carabiner in the front, unhook my lineman's rope, and step over onto my stand. Then snug up my prussic so that it's fairly taught when I'm sitting, and the rope runs just under my right arm. In fact everyone I've seen on here that uses the RC harness has the tree rope running under their arm. This got me thinking that if my stand were to fail and I fall, this is going to darn near rip my right arm off when the rope gets tight. I don't want the rope in front of me, so if you run it just under your arm and your stand fails, it'll likely dislocate my arm/shoulder as it snaps tight. Not to mention, all rock climbing videos I've watched and demos of falls, the person doesn't snap to an abrupt stop, so if you are just sitting there and the stand or strap fails, I just can't fathom how this is going to be pleasant whatsoever, it's going to jerk me severely at the waist, and up under my arm. 

I have the Black Diamond BOD harness, and it was $39.99. This weekend I picked up the new Muddy harness, which was on sale for $79.99. I haven't opened it yet because I'm still thinking this through, but has anyone thought about wearing the two styles together? Both of these harnesses total $120 bucks, basically the price of a new standard harness. Couldn't both be worn together, and attached via 2 prussics on my HSS rope? I could have the chest harness attached towards the top and worn as normal, with top prussic. Then have my RC harness hooked up to a prussic lower on the rope, and looser. If I were to drop, the standard vest will work as it should, and keep me upright and not suffer any injury. Then I could just slide my RC harness prussic up until taught, and cut my Muddy harness tether and drop right into my RC harness, facing the tree. 

Sounds kinda crazy, but I think the 2 in conjunction with each other would work well and safely. My RC harness is simple and streamlined, so I don't think it would bother me wearing both at all. 

I just can't come up with any other safe way (in my mind) to take a fall and avoid injury, as well as be able to get down. I don't want to take an abrubt fall in a RC harness, and I don't want to just hang there in a chest harness. I now own both, and am curious what other people think about wearing them together. 

I've been a big proponent of RC harnesses since I made the switch, but after consideration, I can't imagine how an abrupt fall when sitting facing away from the tree would not damage my arm, as well as jerk the snot out of me unexpectedly at the waist. Also, please realize that I understand "most" falls occur when going up or down the tree, or stepping over onto the stand, but those are not the falls that concern me, as I am properly strapped in to accept the fall in those situations. It's the fall once I'm on the stand that concerns me. If I'm sitting down and the stand fails, or if I stand up to shoot and fall, fall asleep and fall off the side of the stand, etc.


----------



## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

If your anchor is fairly tight, you aren't going to drop far enough for your shoulder to be dislocated. I think you're giving too much credit for the "comfort" provided in a fall by traditional harness. I work in an Exofit, hunted in an HSS and now have an Alpine bod and I won't be going back.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

If we try to over think everything, we'll end up with something similar to this.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

twatt: Sounds like you are thinking everything through except the fall. If you are doing everything correct, which it sounds like you are, you can't fall but a foot a most. The freakiest of freak accidents might and I say might result in a dislocated shoulder. Very very doubtful. My guess, you would have a better chance of hanging yourself wearing two harnesses. That too is very doubtful.
Since you already have a harness. At ground level hook up to a tree as you would hunting only sitting on a stool. Lean against the tree, remove the stool and let yourself fall. No big deal if hooked up right.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

houser52 said:


> If we try to over think everything, we'll end up with something similar to this.


*Love it Houser52
*


----------



## dogzlife (Jul 11, 2004)

tpcollins said:


> Link didn't work.


Trying again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLGHw75ZMQ


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

dogzlife said:


> Trying again.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLGHw75ZMQ



Ouch! I'd say he fell a little bit farther than we would. lol


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

dogzlife said:


> Trying again.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLGHw75ZMQ


Thanks dogz - he probably could have slowly put his weight on that branch it my have held him. What people don't realize is the amount of energy there is associated with a fall. That force will eventually be dissipated somewhere - tree branch, lanyard, harness, neck vertebrates, joints . . .

Another valid reason for a taut tether.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

I picked up a good high friction 8mm VT line with sewn eyes, a 16" dynamic tether (also with sewn eyes) and a micro pulley from Blue Water Ropes the other day and just tried it last night.

==> WOW!!

That Schwabisch knot + micro pulley for one-handed tending/adjustment is just friggin' awesome. Thanks for that!

It definitely holds (with no slip!) and releases better than the Prusik and Blake's hitches. Use of the dynamic tether is most definitely more compact/sleeker, lighter AND less noisy than using the shock absorbing friction plate (Kong KISA). I plan on having the tether taught pretty much near 100% of the time so I dunno if I actually "need" the tether to be of dynamic rope type but it sure doesn't hurt :teeth: AND it is nice and compact/light with sewn eyes and less bulky knots all over the place.

I'm actually thinking that the AeroHunter tree saddle thing may be the way to go for me in the future. It is pretty much an ultra-comfortable r/c harness setup but made for trees. The bridge setup with the "paws" thing looks to be the big difference in the geometry of the hang comfort and maneuverability.


----------



## little dan (Feb 12, 2009)

where is the best place for people to get the rope
A: the line up the tree and size ?

B: little rope for the knot

I am new to this and I would think it would be cheaper to buy than buying the hss life line

Thanks foe any input, Dan


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

alukban said:


> I picked up a good high friction 8mm VT line with sewn eyes, a 16" dynamic tether (also with sewn eyes) and a micro pulley from Blue Water Ropes the other day and just tried it last night.
> 
> ==> WOW!!
> 
> ...


Being able to use the micro pulley to self rescue with the schawabish, would require having slack in the lifeline to do so. If you have slack in the lifeline when climbing and pushing the schwabich knot up as you go, no matter how high you push it up, it's going to fall back down a certain amount due to the slack when you take you hand off it to go further up the climbing sticks/tree steps or ladder stand. Or are you doing this with a climber? Thanks.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

tpcollins said:


> Being able to use the micro pulley to self rescue with the schawabish, would require having slack in the lifeline to do so. If you have slack in the lifeline when climbing and pushing the schwabich knot up as you go, no matter how high you push it up, it's going to fall back down a certain amount due to the slack when you take you hand off it to go further up the climbing sticks/tree steps or ladder stand. Or are you doing this with a climber? Thanks.


Yeah - not for self rescue but for one-handed adjustment while in the stand (keeping it taught while either sitting or standing) and for pushing the knot up while using a climber. I am using a rope all the way to the ground and you still have to bring the loop around the tree up as you ascend with the climber but I get "two climbs" with one loop setting so that one of those climbs I can do with adjusting the friction hitch with one hand. Being able to simply rappel down a continuous rope to the ground will be my go-to "self-rescue" technique => use arborists high-friction Prusik line. Ya see! I'm learning! 

Also, with a ladder stand, I can leave the rope up top and also run it all the way to the ground so that I can attach the tether to that as I get on the ladder, climb rungs, adjust with one hand while the other is still on the ladder... and continue. I can thus be tethered while climbing the ladder and always have at least one hand on the ladder.

In playing with these things though, you can get away with not using the micro pulley with the Schwabisch. Just pass the rope through the carabiner and the carabiner itself pushes the friction knot up. It does not work well with the Blake or Prusik but it is friggin' awesome with the Schwabisch.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

alukban said:


> In playing with these things though, you can get away with not using the micro pulley with the Schwabisch. Just pass the rope through the carabiner and the carabiner itself pushes the friction knot up. It does not work well with the Blake or Prusik but it is friggin' awesome with the Schwabisch.


I played with a Schwabish and a prusik foot strap below it yesterday and I found the Schwabish was a bear to release - the prusik was easier for me but it could have been the ropes. The Scwhwabish was on a bit stiffer 8mm, the prusik was on a supple 7mm rope - could have been the difference.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> I played with a Schwabish and a prusik foot strap below it yesterday and I found the Schwabish was a bear to release - the prusik was easier for me but it could have been the ropes. The Scwhwabish was on a bit stiffer 8mm, the prusik was on a supple 7mm rope - could have been the difference.


How many wraps are you using? 4 over 1? 

Try the Distel hitch. It might release a little easier. That's what I use most of the time and don't have any trouble sliding it after it's been weighted.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> How many wraps are you using? 4 over 1?
> 
> Try the Distel hitch. It might release a little easier. That's what I use most of the time and don't have any trouble sliding it after it's been weighted.


Yes I was using 4 over 1 Schwabish, I'll give the Distel a try tomorrow. An issue I see using split tails is it would seem to be very easy to load them unevenly - if that actually matters. When I tried this yesterday I dressed the Schwabish as to eliminate this but it still could have happen. With a closed loop like with the prusik it will automatically center itself.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> Yes I was using 4 over 1 Schwabish, I'll give the Distel a try tomorrow. An issue I see using split tails is it would seem to be very easy to load them unevenly - if that actually matters. When I tried this yesterday I dressed the Schwabish as to eliminate this but it still could have happen. With a closed loop like with the prusik it will automatically center itself.


Like you I always dress the knot. I leave one attached to all my lifelines so I just walk up, hook up and climb. I don't think uneven tails make much difference if they're not bad uneven or at least I've never read about it being a problem.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Wow: I thought this thread might help some. I find out now I'm still learning. Schwabish as an alternative. Didn't even know it existed.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

thirdhandman said:


> Wow: I thought this thread might help some. I find out now I'm still learning. Schwabish as an alternative. Didn't even know it existed.


I know right!?

The place where I found some of the most concise how-to information on knots used, how to tie them and where they are used is actually at... the AeroHunter's User's Guide! 

http://newtribe.com/documents/AERO EVO USER GUIDE 06-01-14.pdf


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

This link is pretty nice, click on a knot and you can see the step by step animation.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexclimbing.php


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

I'm liking the Klenheist more and more . . .


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

tpcollins said:


> I'm liking the Klenheist more and more . . .


I started searching on the differences between the prussic and klemheist knots and stumbled across this on a RC forum - I may be switching everything over to the klemheist.


*A standard prusik performs best when it's loaded perpendicular to the main line. (In this case, your ridgeline.)

A klemheist is intended to be loaded in parallel with the main line, will grip when loaded, and can slide when unloaded. *


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Thanks TP. I'm Going to have to try that. Prusik does get stuck when hanging steps.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> I started searching on the differences between the prussic and klemheist knots and stumbled across this on a RC forum - I may be switching everything over to the klemheist.
> 
> 
> *A standard prusik performs best when it's loaded perpendicular to the main line. (In this case, your ridgeline.)
> ...


The standard prusik grips in both directions and the klemheist only in one direction but we only need it to grip in one direction anyway.

Interesting story about the standard prusik... I replaced my well pump but couldn't slide the black plastic pipe onto the thimble at the pump because the pipe was slick. I wrapped a prusik around the pipe and used a ratchet strap to pull the pipe and thimble together. It worked like a charm without slipping. The prusik has lots of uses other than climbing.


----------



## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

We use the Klemheist in rescue situations. If someone has fallen over an edge and is suspended by their harness/lanyards, I can klemheist (aka rescue hitch) on the lanyard and use it to lift them to a point that we can free the hook and then lower them to safety. I haven't considered it for this application but I'm going to play with it.


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

Klemheist is a good knot for some things but the way y'all are wanting to use it here isn't a good application. The Blake's, Schwabish, Distel, etc are better suited for what we're doing here. 

For the people here that don't have a lot of experience climbing with friction hitches, be cautious in the experimentation. Something like the Blake's hitch is extremely forgiving. With more sophisticated friction hitches though they can also get more finicky in their behavior and new users may not have the experience to know what's right and what isn't.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

TC260 said:


> *Klemheist is a good knot for some things but the way y'all are wanting to use it here isn't a good application.* The Blake's, Schwabish, Distel, etc are better suited for what we're doing here.


Explain why.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

tc260; I've been using rock climbing harnesses 3 seasons so I'm still learning anything I can. I tried The Klemheist in the basement and it seemed to work. Mind explaining what to look for when doing it right and or wrong. Willing to listen and learn.
Thanks for your help.


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

tpcollins said:


> Explain why.


Yes sir, right away sir . 

Off the top of my head I probably can't explain the physics to you but a Klemheist is basically an "ascending" knot. I used one a lot for DRT footlocking so I'm not "against it" in any way. Just, right knot for the right application. When using one for ascending a rope you always have to keep your hands below the knot. If used for descending, they need to be backed up with a figure 8, munter, etc.. It's not designed for going up and down the rope the way an actual climbing hitch is like a Tautline, Blake's, Schwabish, Distel, V.T., etc.. Climbing knots are more stable and don't need to be backed up. You can go up and down the rope without any additional precautions. That's why I'm saying, IMO it's better stick with the standard climbing knots. 

My other concern, and honestly this may be nothing, but it's something to keep in mind. But in a standard arborist-style climbing system, the friction knot only sees half the weight of the climber. Whereas when we're on a single rope, the knot sees the full weight of the climber which requires more friction. Arborists basically all use similarly constructed ropes of the same diameter with the same basic climbing system. So even if a knot works great for them, it may not necessarily always translate over to every rope/chord combinations that are being used. The knot will still work, but maybe it needs an extra wrap or two in some cases to achieve the proper amount of friction or something like that. Little fine tuning stuff like that can be important but a newb may not know how or when to do it. Believe me I'm not shouting "doomsday" here, just reminding people to be careful. Take it low and slow until you're sure everything is working right.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Makes sense TC260 Thanks:wink:


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

TC260 said:


> Yes sir, right away sir .


No need to be sarcastic - I was just asking for an explanation about your saying the Klenheist *"isn't a good application"*. 

I'm registered on a tree arborist forum - I'll ask them and see what they say. Here's something interesting . . . 



*The 4 Friction Knots*

Here are the four friction knots, their uses, and their advantages and disadvantages.

*Prusik Knot*

The Prusik knot is the most commonly used friction knot for ascending a rope. It’s easy to tie and very secure when it’s loaded. The disadvantages of the Prusik knot are that it is difficult to dress well and that it tightens up, making it difficult to release and slide up the rope.

*Klemheist Knot*

The Klemheist knot is a friction knot that is used for ascending a rope and for self-rescue when a climber needs to escape a belay. Like a Prusik knot, it slides easily on a rope. The advantages of a Klemheist knot over a Prusik knot is that it is easier to release its grip on the rope after being loaded, works in one direction, is faster to tie than a Prusik knot, is easily untied after being loaded, and can be tied with webbing.

*Bachmann Knot*

The Bachmann knot is a friction knot that utilizes a carabiner as a handle and is used to ascend a fixed rope. While the carabiner makes it easy to slide the knot up the rope, it’s smooth surface doesn’t grip the rope so accidents can happen. The Bachmann knot is ideal for rescue situations and as a safety back-up since it releases when it’s not loaded, but automatically grips the rope when it is loaded.

*Autoblock Knot*

The autoblock knot, also called a French Prusik knot, is an easy-to-tie and versatile friction knot that is used as a safety back-up knot on a rappel rope. The knot is tied on the rope below the rappel device and then attached to the climber’s harness through a carabiner on a leg loop or the belay loop. The knot adds friction to the rappel and allows the climber to safely stop mid-rappel to rearrange the rope or do another task. The knot should never be used to ascend a rope since it slips rather than grips. Nor should it be used as a lowering device since the climber could lose control and burn through the nylon cord.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

And . . . 

*Blake's hitch*


Uses:

*To allow a climber to be supported on a doubled rope system*, with the ability to ascend and descend by moving the knot one way or the other.

Additional info:
This knot can be tied with either a split tail or within a closed system.
This knot has aged within the industry as many more hitches that are better, smaller and can be tended by pulleys are being used.


I think I'll pass on this one for single rope applications.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Here's test report for friction knots, the list of knots and picture start on page 9, test results are on page 48 & 49. Using a carabiner connection point, the Schwabish beats the standard prusik - I think I use the schwabish . . .


http://www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/14_Report_hitches_PBavaresco.pdf


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

WOW!

That's an excellent reference!

Thank you!

The punch line on page 35 is...



> 10.4 FRICTION HITCH AND CORD COMBINATIONS
> 
> Assuming the use of 13mm diameter rope for work/life-line, the following combinations of cord
> and friction hitches should be adopted as industry best practice at entry level for tree climbers
> ...


It's a simple matter to just follow these documented recommendations from here ain't it?


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

I found this guy testing the Alpine BOD harness...


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

tpcollins said:


> And . . .
> 
> *Blake's hitch*
> 
> ...


Ah yes, the good old internet...Much knowledge, little wisdom.


----------



## jeff25 (Dec 8, 2011)

I just got mine last week and got to try it out a couples times now... Don't think I will be switching back... ever. I like being able to use one rope as my linemans belt and my tether once I get to the top. Just one 10 ft piece of climbing rope with a double figure 8 knot on one end, prusik knot, then just an over hand knot on the other end(just to reassure myself the prusik won't slide off the end). Girth hitch the tree, and adjust prusik to proper length. Losen the girth hitch and slide it up the tree as I go and retighten. Once at the top just adjust the prusik again to where I want it to hunt.

It's light, packs into a small bag it came with, doesn't get all tangled, and makes climbing and hanging stands much easier.

I mean heck I could swing my self around the tree to get a limb if I wanted... Just put my feet on the tree and walk around it


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

jeff25 said:


> I just got mine last week and got to try it out a couples times now... Don't think I will be switching back... ever. I like being able to use one rope as my linemans belt and my tether once I get to the top. Just one 10 ft piece of climbing rope with a double figure 8 knot on one end, prusik knot, then just an over hand knot on the other end(just to reassure myself the prusik won't slide off the end). Girth hitch the tree, and adjust prusik to proper length. Losen the girth hitch and slide it up the tree as I go and retighten. Once at the top just adjust the prusik again to where I want it to hunt.
> 
> It's light, packs into a small bag it came with, doesn't get all tangled, and makes climbing and hanging stands much easier.
> 
> I mean heck I could swing my self around the tree to get a limb if I wanted... Just put my feet on the tree and walk around it




People are making this crap as confusing as possible, this is all you need...:darkbeer:


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

TC260 said:


> Ah yes, the good old internet...Much knowledge, little wisdom.


So I should trust some kid with 20 posts?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

TP, I may be wrong but I don't believe he is just a kid.


----------



## msu33 (Aug 8, 2012)

I switched from a 4 point harness to a R/C harness 2 years ago...never go back...


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

I was just going by the text in some of his posts. The Blake seems to be used in a two rope situation, not sure I'd want that on my single lifeline, but what do I know? I'm just reading info on rock climbing and tree arborist forums - so AT is thee authority for climbing information I should be trusting with my life?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

I just watched an episode of Moultrie's Hit List that I had taped earlier today and noticed Chad Ritter's lifeline setup. He was wearing what looked like a SOP harness with a rear tether but his lifeline was huge! It was at least 13mm and perhaps even a 9/16' or 5/8" arborist rope. What was even more noticeable was his prussic cord that looked 10mm, maybe even 11mm as it looked similar to my 11.4mm Assaultline. And he was connected with a 27Kn or so biner - guess he wasn't taking any chances on something breaking.


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

jeff25 said:


> I just got mine last week and got to try it out a couples times now... Don't think I will be switching back... ever. I like being able to use one rope as my linemans belt and my tether once I get to the top. Just one 10 ft piece of climbing rope with a double figure 8 knot on one end, prusik knot, then just an over hand knot on the other end(just to reassure myself the prusik won't slide off the end). Girth hitch the tree, and adjust prusik to proper length. Losen the girth hitch and slide it up the tree as I go and retighten. Once at the top just adjust the prusik again to where I want it to hunt.
> 
> It's light, packs into a small bag it came with, doesn't get all tangled, and makes climbing and hanging stands much easier.
> 
> I mean heck I could swing my self around the tree to get a limb if I wanted... Just put my feet on the tree and walk around it


Why not make a 2nd double figure 8 instead of over hand knot? You can hook that 2nd to the biner and if the Prussic breaks, you're still covered. 

A little redundancy couldn't hurt in this case.


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

tpcollins said:


> So I should trust some kid with 20 posts?


 I climbed on all these knots for years so honestly I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. Do what you feel comfortable with, just passing along some experience.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/tree-trimmer-dies-after-fall-from-tree-in-crownsville/29202620 


There you go Jim... Although it doesn't say so in this article, both tv news reports stated he was wearing his harness... a RC or TT Harness.....


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

EJP1234 said:


> http://www.wbaltv.com/news/tree-trimmer-dies-after-fall-from-tree-in-crownsville/29202620
> 
> 
> There you go Jim... Although it doesn't say so in this article, *both tv news reports stated he was wearing his harness*... a RC or TT Harness.....


What was the root cause for the fall?


----------



## Tdowell65 (Sep 27, 2011)

After reading this post and watching all the videos on this thread I tried the Black diamond harness this week, and gotta say I like the set up. My biggest issue using a full vest harness is, I never wear all my clothes to the stand. Which makes putting them on on the stand a very dangerous situation. With the RC harness thats been eliminated as I just put on my extra clothes with the hassle of the 4 pt harness being in the way. After reading all these post it can get a little overwhelming. I just used my rope teather that came with my HSS vest with the prussic knot. Seems easy enough and worked well when I tested it on the ground and was prefect length. So thanks for all the info on this set up, I've always hated wearing the full harness and it felt cumbersome.


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

Just practiced in the back yard with my climber, new Third Hand stabilizer straps (worked great) and my RC harness. Got done and went inside to watch some football and unknowingly sat in the easy chair and still had the RC harness on, it is so comfortable I forgot I even had it on, try that with a regular harness!!


----------



## sportbob (Dec 21, 2012)

I switched to Black Diamond Vario RC harness this year and it's awesome! I put it on under my pants and the loop and carabiner stick out of the top. This leaves easy access to pockets and I forget I'm even wearing a harness. I use a HSS rope style tree strap connected to sterling rope sewn prusik connected to the harness with a carabiner. Having the connection waist high to the tree makes moving around with the bow easy since no straps are in my way.

http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/0/SC080/_/8mm_Sewn_Cord
http://www.huntersafetysystem.com/rope-style-treestrap-1/
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en...000ALL1.html?gclid=COjdhN2busECFSgLMgodN2kAAg


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

EJP1234 said:


> http://www.wbaltv.com/news/tree-trimmer-dies-after-fall-from-tree-in-crownsville/29202620
> 
> 
> There you go Jim... Although it doesn't say so in this article, both tv news reports stated he was wearing his harness... a RC or TT Harness.....


And what does this prove exactly? Nobody knows how he fell. Obviously if he fell 60' something went terribly wrong and the harness didn't catch him. You obviously don't like RC harnesses for hunting and that's fine, but there are LOTS of guys that do like them and trust them so whats the use in arguing over and over again?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

flinginairos said:


> And what does this prove exactly? Nobody knows how he fell. Obviously if he fell 60' something went terribly wrong and the harness didn't catch him. You obviously don't like RC harnesses for hunting and that's fine, but there are LOTS of guys that do like them and trust them so whats the use in arguing over and over again?


Tree trimmers usually use an arborist's saddle which is a heavy duty version of a RC harness. Obviously something failed other than the harness - I've tried to research it but there are no details.


----------



## dtrkyman (Jul 27, 2004)

My third year using a rock climbing harness, way better than the 4 point I had, lighter, more comfortable, more mobility and just as safe so what is not to like? I have an Edelrid jay harness I got at rei, I used a strap from a free harness I got with a tree stand for a runner and attached a small pouch to it that holds my prussic rope set up!


----------



## ResQue (Oct 19, 2014)

Hey guys, first post here. Been lurking for a little bit. Anyways, I will try and get some info from the crownsville, md incident. I am a special ops firefighter in the county this happened at so hopefully I can find something out. It didn't occur on my shift so I will have to talk to those that were there.


----------



## Mickermic (Aug 11, 2006)

I have hunted in my rock climbing harness three times so far. My thoughts. Is more comfortable, like that it is not over my shoulders. I also bought a Qsafe. I have to use my Qsafe down very low so that the strap going from tree to the front of my harness doesnt pull at my hip. If you stand up to look around and you want to turn from left to right you must turn so that at some point you are facing the tree so that the strap doesnt pull at you. You and turn off the front of the stand but you will need a lot of strap slack. Not a big deal and I dont mind it but it is totally different movement than a 4 point harness. I feel very safe and very comfortable with the RC harness. Also the RC harness is great for putting up Lock ons and sticks. Just my 2


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Mickermic: If you add a line with a Prusik from the Qsafe to your harness, you will be able to put the Qsafe up a little higher and adjust the line to your waist. That will give you much more room when standing and turning without getting in the way.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Last night was actually my first sit with my RC harness. Originally started with the lanyard under my armpit and didn't like it, over the shoulder was much better. It was also a lot easier to walk with it on.


----------



## ezmorningrebel (Dec 27, 2012)

what's that orange thing?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

ezmorningrebel said:


> what's that orange thing?


It's a Petzl Ultralegere pulley. While researching RC harnesses this year, I found the the weakest point in a rope was where it wrapped around the small diameter of a carabiner (makes sense). So I bought a couple of these plastic pulleys from REI that have a 1" diameter groove. I had to turn the flanges down on my lathe to get it in the eye on the Beal lanyard. I also put one in the Bluewater prussic lanyard I bought with a larger sewn eye and it fit without having to turn it down.


http://www.rei.com/product/799043/petzl-ultralegere-pulley


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

I wore my Black Diamond Momentum on Friday. It was comfortable in and out, no swinging parts on the way in was nice. I leave 2 or 3 steps on each tree, and carry two steps in. I used the HSS rope strap and just connected up hung both steps and just moved the rope up the tree. I had forgotten I had my full 30 foot life line with me, and as I was finishing up for the day I decided that should I fall having the life line there would be a nice to grab a hold of, and either switch over to it and 'rappel' down via figure 8, or at the very least help me climb back up. Also could be used by my brother or buddy as they don't have a harness. I clipped in, to it, pulled the safety strap tossed in my bag and climbed down. Line is still on the tree, for multi-person use, and to potentially help climb up or down. The RC harness was undoubtedly more comfortable than my 4 point, gave me more ability to move freely (even though I got busted about to draw) I would not have been able to turn the way I did to prepare to shoot. Never going back. Also, about 1300, I got bored and used it as a seat, to cut some branches on the other side of the tree. That my have been less than ideal, but it worked.


----------



## ultratectj (Jun 17, 2004)

Made the switch this year and won't be going back. 

I hung from mine and is perfect. I use the ABC harness with hss rope style tree strap.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Tp: On the stand you were in for the picture. Why the beal lanyard? It appears there is enough rope to slide the knot down and just tie in with the carabiner to the harness. My thinking is the more attachments and links the more places for something to go wrong.:dontknow:


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> Tp: On the stand you were in for the picture. *Why the beal lanyard? * It appears there is enough rope to slide the knot down and just tie in with the carabiner to the harness. My thinking is the more attachments and links the more places for something to go wrong.:dontknow:


Because it's dynamic and the lifeline is static - I want a little stretch to absorb a fall if needed. This setup is on one ladder stand that I never used any harness in the past - I was just practicing. I have two other ladder stands, 4 hang-ons, and a climber permanently attached with climbing sticks. On the hang-ons, the lifeline is inline with the climbing sticks and 90 degrees off to the side on the stand - some are left side, one is on the right side. The Beal allows attachment for all my stands, and going under the arm may work out due to the "reach". I plan to sit tomorrow morning in one of those hang-ons, I'll see see works out best.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

TP On ladder and hang ons, if you feel a nap coming on, cinch the tether tight across the chest and shoulder. It keeps ya from tipping forward.:secret: I do it quite a bit. Naps are good for old farts.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

The lanyard thing is great over the shoulder eh? I REALLY like that secure, "seatbelt" feeling and being under tension.

*thirdhandman* had pointed out possiblility snagging while shooting but, being righty, I simply plan on having it over my right shoulder instead- no possibility of snagging there!


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

Im a little behind the loop I guess. So we are not saying that a nylon sling is efficient enough for a fall? I should be using and dynamic rope, correct? This work?

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/sh...hon-Ultra-Lanyard_10105772_10208_10000001_-1_


----------



## Danno75 (Jul 11, 2007)

The RC harnesses intrigue me. I was always curious why the hunting industry didn't use already proven safety harnesses used by rock climbers and arborists. It seems the hunting industry has ignored existing solutions to evolve on its own.

So with the RC harness, where do you connect yourself to the tree when you are siting in the stand? I see how the lineman belt works, curious how the safety line attaches to the RC harness and if you fall, in what position does the RC harness put you in since all of the focus is on the hips? thanks for any insight!


----------



## Devilfan (Dec 11, 2004)

Danno75 said:


> The RC harnesses intrigue me. I was always curious why the hunting industry didn't use already proven safety harnesses used by rock climbers and arborists. It seems the hunting industry has ignored existing solutions to evolve on its own.
> 
> So with the RC harness, where do you connect yourself to the tree when you are siting in the stand? I see how the lineman belt works, curious how the safety line attaches to the RC harness and if you fall, in what position does the RC harness put you in since all of the focus is on the hips? thanks for any insight!


Check out the video in post 403.


----------



## nelly23 (Jan 9, 2005)

I think I will be in the minority here but after hunting last year and a couple hunts this year with a RC harness I am switching back to a 4 point. I bought a Muddy and really like it. I don't really have anything bad to say about the RC harness but I had 2 things that bothered me and led to me switching back.
1-I am a bigger guy, 6 foot 230 lbs and hunting here in MN you need to layer up. My RC harness was always tight in the groin area and led to some issues with cold air getting under my jacket. 
2-There were times when I would have to twist around on the tree and when I was focued on the deer I would loose track of the rope around my legs/feet. I never fell but always made me woder if someday it would cause me to take a tumble.
The reason I went to the RC harness was I liked the sound of having my teather away from my bow arm and my HSS vest was so hot. Again, no huge negatives about the RC harness, just feel better in a 4 point.
The Muddy harness I bought is really light, allows me to hook up my bino's, range finder and grunt(which I find very user friendly). The best feature of the Muddy in my opinion is the way the leg straps work. Very easy to adjust tightness and you can leave the strap in the buckle all the time. Just get nice and loose and step in/out.


----------



## San Pedro (Mar 31, 2014)

Haven't read the entire thread so apologies in advance if this has been specifically addressed..I visited my local REI last night to get a RC setup and the salesguy gave me enough pause to not buy one there on the spot ...His claim was that falling out of a stand with a RC setup could result in falling completely out of the harness itself..He also claimed having the harness connection at the front (vs the back for a traditional harness) could be problematic. I guess I could see his point, but so far it seems the vast majority of people who made the switch to a RC setup are more than happy...Just looking for some reassurances I guess.
thanks!


----------



## zachd (Dec 3, 2013)

DaneHunter said:


> Im a little behind the loop I guess. So we are not saying that a nylon sling is efficient enough for a fall? I should be using and dynamic rope, correct? This work?
> 
> http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/sh...hon-Ultra-Lanyard_10105772_10208_10000001_-1_


Correct, you either want your life line dynamic or the lanyard from your harness to your life line dynamic. A sling will not stretch and in a fall its going to be pretty uncomfortable, if you fell far enough it could cause injury. I started looking into RC harnesses about 3 weeks ago so I did a ton of research on climbing in general and bought a set up from the local outdoor store that sells climbing gear. The guy there that helped me is a certified climbing teacher so he gave me a lot of info.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

nelly23 said:


> I think I will be in the minority here but after hunting last year and a couple hunts this year with a RC harness I am switching back to a 4 point. I bought a Muddy and really like it. I don't really have anything bad to say about the RC harness but I had 2 things that bothered me and led to me switching back.
> 1-I am a bigger guy, 6 foot 230 lbs and hunting here in MN you need to layer up. My RC harness was always tight in the groin area and led to some issues with cold air getting under my jacket.
> 2-There were times when I would have to twist around on the tree and when I was focued on the deer I would loose track of the rope around my legs/feet. I never fell but always made me woder if someday it would cause me to take a tumble.
> The reason I went to the RC harness was I liked the sound of having my teather away from my bow arm and my HSS vest was so hot. Again, no huge negatives about the RC harness, just feel better in a 4 point.
> The Muddy harness I bought is really light, allows me to hook up my bino's, range finder and grunt(which I find very user friendly). The best feature of the Muddy in my opinion is the way the leg straps work. Very easy to adjust tightness and you can leave the strap in the buckle all the time. Just get nice and loose and step in/out.


nelly23: We layer up but we put our harness over the jeans and patagonia. Then we put on bibs or coveralls over the harness so that removes any issues about being tight. If the tether is around your legs and feet it is being used improperly. There should be very little slack when sitting with the tether about head height. Using that way it would be impossible for it to be around your legs or feet. If you tried it this way I believe you would have different point of view. Using any harness and having the tether around the feet is only asking for trouble.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

San Pedro said:


> Haven't read the entire thread so apologies in advance if this has been specifically addressed..I visited my local REI last night to get a RC setup and the salesguy gave me enough pause to not buy one there on the spot ...His claim was that falling out of a stand with a RC setup could result in falling completely out of the harness itself..He also claimed having the harness connection at the front (vs the back for a traditional harness) could be problematic. I guess I could see his point, but so far it seems the vast majority of people who made the switch to a RC setup are more than happy...Just looking for some reassurances I guess.
> thanks!


San Pedro: There was a reason for starting this thread "After trying a rock climbing harness" It was to eliminate the BS of what someone would think without actually trying. They have nothing to offer. As example did you ask him why it would handle a 30' fall off a cliff but not a 1-2' fall from a stand. Did you think to ask why having the rope in the front where he could self rescue, would be problematic? That is almost like asking the experts of Dicks' to set up and tune a bow.

I ask the same questions from a local store and got a real stupid look for a response. Then I ask what style stand he used. He had never been in a stand and didn hunt. Just because someone works in a box store doesn't make them an expert.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

zachd said:


> Correct, you either want your life line dynamic or the lanyard from your harness to your life line dynamic. A sling will not stretch and in a fall its going to be pretty uncomfortable, if you fell far enough it could cause injury. I started looking into RC harnesses about 3 weeks ago so I did a ton of research on climbing in general and bought a set up from the local outdoor store that sells climbing gear. The guy there that helped me is a certified climbing teacher so he gave me a lot of info.


A few things to consider, 

A nylon sling does stretch some whereas a sling made from Dyneema or Spectra will have almost no stretch and will break easier than nylon when loaded hard. 

Rock climbing harnesses are made from nylon and they also have some stretch. 

Static ropes stretch but not as much as dynamic ropes. The length of a rope also plays an important roll in how much stretch there is and how much of an impact is felt. The longer the rope is the more it stretches and the amount of energy it will absorb. For fun try hanging from a 30', static or dynamic, rope you've tied in a tree. Hang from it at ground level and bounce from it, pretty bouncy. Now hang from 1' of rope at ground level and bounce. There's no bounce on the 1' because it's so short. Try it with either static or dynamic. I couldn't tell the difference.

Other things to consider during a "fall".
Not only is energy absorbed by the rope, tether and harness, knots tightening, our arms and legs might be flailing, we're scrambling, grabbing, clawing which also reduces impact forces. Also, since we are a bag of liquid and tissue, our bodies absorb some of the impact too.

When we're climbing, sitting or standing, if we stay BELOW the tie in point and minimize the amount of slack, we should come through it well enough to keep hunting. 

We aren't bungee jumping but... I do use a 32" dynamic lanyard from my harness to my lifeline.


----------



## noklok (Aug 9, 2003)

Very interesting. Is there any RCs that come set up for a line and belt? Is there a preferred brand?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> When we're climbing, sitting or standing, if we stay BELOW the tie in point and minimize the amount of slack, we should come through it well enough to keep hunting.
> 
> We aren't bungee jumping but... I do use a 32" dynamic lanyard from my harness to my lifeline.



Houser - you do realize this is AT . . . :wink:


I've sat in 3 different stands with my RC harness so far this year and I don't see any reason to go back to my Tree Spider other than to hang stands maybe. The lifeline on my one ladder stand is right behind my shoulder so it was easier and more comfortable to have the lanyard going over my shoulder. 

This morning I was in a hang-on and that line is a off to the side and I didn't like the lanyard under my arm so it stayed over my shoulder. Tonight I sat at the opposite end of the woods and that lifeline is closer to my stand so having the lifeline under my shoulder was fine.

Because of this mornings sit, I ordered another Beal Dynaclip but this one is the 24" model. Since this lanyard won't have to reach up as high, I should be able to keep it under my arm on this morning's stand. I just adapt whenever the situation arises . . .


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> I just adapt whenever the situation arises . . . :smile:


You hit the nail on the head with that statement. I have a box of adaptation stuff but I have it when I need it. :wink:


----------



## DaneHunter (Jul 6, 2013)

Someone just send me the damn tether I need. Lol


----------



## adr1601 (Oct 15, 2012)

Spoke with my close friend about this and he has 20 + years of vertical experience and he gave me the go ahead. Now I'm just waiting for my deliveries to put my system together.


----------



## zachd (Dec 3, 2013)

One big mistake I have seen in some of the pics is using the Belay loop as our tie in point. The belay loop is for what the name says, belaying (when top climbing the guy standing on the ground cashing out or pulling in rope to keep the climbers fall to a minimal is the belayer). If you are the climber you should be tying in through the leg loops and waste belt but not the belay loop. This was told to be by the guy at the climbing store, it is shown in the instructions of the harness and also mentioned in this video here. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGxbw40ny5M


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

zachd said:


> One big mistake I have seen in some of the pics is using the Belay loop as our tie in point. The belay loop is for what the name says, belaying (when top climbing the guy standing on the ground cashing out or pulling in rope to keep the climbers fall to a minimal is the belayer). If you are the climber you should be tying in through the leg loops and waste belt but not the belay loop. This was told to be by the guy at the climbing store, it is shown in the instructions of the harness and also mentioned in this video here.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGxbw40ny5M


Zachd - I agree. With my first RC harness, I attached to the separate belay loop and found it pulled the leg straps first before the waist loop engaged. This caused me to tip backwards so I return it and got the Petzl Aspir - (3rd hand likes the Vario). This one pulls at the waist with no tipping - ymmv.


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

tpcollins said:


> Houser - you do realize this is AT . . . :wink:
> 
> 
> I've sat in 3 different stands with my RC harness so far this year and I don't see any reason to go back to my Tree Spider other than to hang stands maybe. The lifeline on my one ladder stand is right behind my shoulder so it was easier and more comfortable to have the lanyard going over my shoulder.
> ...


RC to Carabiner to Beal Dynaclip lanyard to carabiner to Prussic on lifeline.

Is that how you do it?

I used my Gym Dandy harness this AM with a lifeline and I could not get it at the height I needed it.

I'd like to order tomorrow to have it for next weekend.


----------



## stormsearch (Sep 29, 2006)

TP - The dynaclip can be directly attached to your RC using girth hitch I believe if it has a big enough loop on one end. I use a bluewater dynamic prussic cord (6.5mm), clip into a carabiner which is attached just started today with a Schwabisch Hitch.

Speaking of hitches, for the forums info, last week I tried using a klemheist knot for my linemen's setup. I was looking for something easy to to hitch my cord to and looked like a great knot. However, as some have pointed out, this really should only be an ascending type knot. Every time I touched it while not under tension, it just didn't want to grab right away, like it needs to be dressed everytime you grab it. It works great for pushing it up a rope, but after that experience, I retied my lifeline hitch back to a prussic.

Today I tried out the schwabisch hitch. It takes a bit to tie/dress so the ends are the same length but once set with an attached carabiner, it has replaced the prussic for me. It seemed to grab a little better since I made my connection points fairly close to the hitch. It worked much better being wet than a prussic and was easier to move up or down under the same conditions. I ended up making my own hitch rope since all the climbing sewn loop cords were too long for what I wanted to use.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Sojourner, storm search - I attach the Beal via a Lark's foot (girth hitch). Since the Beal has a longer eye on the one end, it allows this type of attachment.


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

Some nice setups you guys have but some of them seem a little overly complicated.....I'd think the less connections the better off you'd be. 

I've been hunting with a rock climbing harness for 2 seasons now and I doubt I'll go back to a conventional full body harness. Mainly for a few reasons:

1) light weight
2) easy to pack 
3) small, don't take up much space
4) comfortable
5) very safe and secure feeling
6) most likely easier to self rescue

With that said there's not much that I don't like about them besides the fact that none of the ones I've seen have loops for use of a lineman's belt. I tried a few mods including a 32"x1" runner/sling around the belt and run through the rear loop on my Vario Speed Harness but didn't care for it. I did the same with some static rope with loops tied on each end.

I ended up using some 7 mm accessory cord and tied a pair of Prusik knots on each side of the waist belt and it works beautifully and I'm able to slide them to the rear of the belt and out of the way.


----------



## eric69 (Jan 11, 2012)

I like the simplicity of your solution for the linesman loops. I've been trying to figure out a better solution than zip tying a length of webbing to the back waist of my rc harness. I've the Black Diamond Couloir harness - which I like, but the main buckle is a pita. Wish i'd known about the vario harness before I bought it.


----------



## BvrHunter (Apr 8, 2010)

Tony219er said:


> Some nice setups you guys have but some of them seem a little overly complicated.....I'd think the less connections the better off you'd be.
> 
> I've been hunting with a rock climbing harness for 2 seasons now and I doubt I'll go back to a conventional full body harness. Mainly for a few reasons:
> 
> ...


Great Idea!! I have the BD momentum and I ran a 32"x1" runner around the back as well. While it works fine I really like your setup better. Will give a try tomorrow morning when I get off work


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Tony219er said:


> With that said there's not much that I don't like about them besides the fact that none of the ones I've seen have loops for use of a lineman's belt.


I haven't tried it myself yet but what would be wrong with just tying the linesman's belt to the front loop of the RC harness?


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> I haven't tried it myself yet but what would be wrong with just tying the linesman's belt to the front loop of the RC harness?


I can't speak for anybody else but attaching the lineman's rope to the belay loop made a "V" right right in the front. For me that V made it hard to pass by climbing sticks as I hung them. It was a real pain.


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

tpcollins said:


> Sojourner, storm search - I attach the Beal via a Lark's foot (girth hitch). Since the Beal has a longer eye on the one end, it allows this type of attachment.


Thanks! Girth hitch to harness and biner to Prussic.


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> I haven't tried it myself yet but what would be wrong with just tying the linesman's belt to the front loop of the RC harness?





houser52 said:


> I can't speak for anybody else but attaching the lineman's rope to the belay loop made a "V" right right in the front. For me that V made it hard to pass by climbing sticks as I hung them. It was a real pain.


Exactly what houser52 said. With the connection in front vs on each side like the traditional harness you can not pass a climbing stick up or down through the center of the lineman's belt. With the tie off points on the side it's easier to hang sticks with the belt hooked up.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> I can't speak for anybody else but attaching the lineman's rope to the belay loop made a "V" right right in the front. For me that V made it hard to pass by climbing sticks as I hung them. It was a real pain.


Makes sense . . . thanks.


----------



## BoiseBound (Jan 5, 2011)

Great thread. Very interested in going to a rock climbing harness mainly for self rescue.

I am very new to this but I have a question for the members here experienced in rock climbing.

Why can't I use a rock climbing harness with a belay devise (such as a Petzl Grigri or Rock Exotica Silent Partner) to catch my fall and then let me descend myself under control?


----------



## ResQue (Oct 19, 2014)

You can use a belay device. I personally prefer less hardware so it is more quiet. But they will work if that's what you want to use.


----------



## BoiseBound (Jan 5, 2011)

ResQue said:


> You can use a belay device. I personally prefer less hardware so it is more quiet. But they will work if that's what you want to use.


Thanks for the quick response


----------



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Very excited to give this a try. I'm sick of these four point harnesses. Thanks to everyone for their info. Fantastic thread.


----------



## jager61 (May 18, 2007)

BoiseBound said:


> Great thread. Very interested in going to a rock climbing harness mainly for self rescue.
> 
> I am very new to this but I have a question for the members here experienced in rock climbing.
> 
> Why can't I use a rock climbing harness with a belay devise (such as a Petzl Grigri or Rock Exotica Silent Partner) to catch my fall and then let me descend myself under control?


Boise, after quite a bit of experimenting and some very helpful advice from TPCollins, I've reduced my gear down to a 40' Bluewater 9.1 mm Dynamic rope, a BD Bod Harness a locking gate carabiner and a Petzel Pirana descending device. On one end of the rope I tie a figure 8 knot; I put the rope around the tree, tag end goes through the figure 8 and snugged down; to my BD Bod harness I attach the Petzel Pirana descending device and run the rope through it and tie it off. Now I am tied in as I climb and slide the rope up the tree as I go along. In the event of a slip or fall, the Pirana keeps me locked in to my harness and now will serve as a descender for self rescue. When at hunting height, nothing changes. The rope remains around the tree and it is tied off to the Pirana which is attached to my RC harness. All I do is pull up the rope below me and coil it up and tuck the slack under my seat. I'm ALWAYS attached to the tree and am able to descend and self rescue at all times. Here's a great explanation for tying off the Pirana. http://youtu.be/si_C1UUnmAw
Be safe!
Mike


----------



## BoiseBound (Jan 5, 2011)

jager61 said:


> Boise, after quite a bit of experimenting and some very helpful advice from TPCollins, I've reduced my gear down to a 40' Bluewater 9.1 mm Dynamic rope, a BD Bod Harness a locking gate carabiner and a Petzel Pirana descending device. On one end of the rope I tie a figure 8 knot; I put the rope around the tree, tag end goes through the figure 8 and snugged down; to my BD Bod harness I attach the Petzel Pirana descending device and run the rope through it and tie it off. Now I am tied in as I climb and slide the rope up the tree as I go along. In the event of a slip or fall, the Pirana keeps me locked in to my harness and now will serve as a descender for self rescue. When at hunting height, nothing changes. The rope remains around the tree and it is tied off to the Pirana which is attached to my RC harness. All I do is pull up the rope below me and coil it up and tuck the slack under my seat. I'm ALWAYS attached to the tree and am able to descend and self rescue at all times. Here's a great explanation for tying off the Pirana. http://youtu.be/si_C1UUnmAw
> Be safe!
> Mike


Thanks jager61

I appreciate the response and link, seems simple and safe. I have a lot more research to do but I have to say this is a great thread. 

I hunt alone out of a treestand and without a doubt self rescue is number one on my list.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Tony219er said:


> Exactly what houser52 said. With the connection in front vs on each side like the traditional harness you can not pass a climbing stick up or down through the center of the lineman's belt. With the tie off points on the side it's easier to hang sticks with the belt hooked up.


For sticks its a pain to me also. I rarely use sticks. I use the tree hopper system for hang ons. He also has a nice linemans belt for $47. http://www.treehopperllc.com/shop/treehopper-3-in-1-climbing-belt/


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

Tony219er said:


> Some nice setups you guys have but some of them seem a little overly complicated.....I'd think the less connections the better off you'd be.
> 
> I've been hunting with a rock climbing harness for 2 seasons now and I doubt I'll go back to a conventional full body harness. Mainly for a few reasons:
> 
> ...


Tony you and thirdhand (Jim) just made me want tosell my muddy.

I have the be various as well but was wondering what would I do with no loops on each side. I'm going to use your ideas from the pics and add these to my bd vario

Thanks again


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

tcarter86 said:


> Tony you and thirdhand (Jim) just made me want tosell my muddy.
> 
> I have the be various as well but was wondering what would I do with no loops on each side. I'm going to use your ideas from the pics and add these to my bd vario
> 
> Thanks again


The Muddy is a great harness and definitely my favorite full body harness but IMO the Black Diamond Vario Speed harness is the best harness I've used or owned. My only gripe with it was the fact that there weren't any lineman's loops and it's a huge pain in the as* hanging sticks when tied off to the main loop front and center. I kept trying to think of a better way to add the loops and the Prusik knot on each side was the best, easiest, and cleanest I could think up. I seen a few posts from guys asking what the best solution was and I didn't see anything like how I did mine so I figured I'd share and it may help someone out.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

I got to playing with my Aspir last night and since the waist strap goes thru a padded waist band, I was able to sleeve a 36" nylon sling thru it and I can use it with a lineman's belt for hanging sticks and stands. Someone else posted something similar to this, seems like a decent way to stay attached.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Looks good TP. Should work fine!


----------



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> I got to playing with my Aspir last night and since the waist strap goes thru a padded waist band, I was able to sleeve a 36" nylon sling thru it and I can use it with a lineman's belt for hanging sticks and stands. Someone else posted something similar to this, seems like a decent way to stay attached.


Hmmmmmm, I'm a noob so go easy on me. Is the sewing in that waist band strong enough to hold that over time? I'm a hangon/sticks guy, so I've been trying to figure out the best solution for a lineman's rope. I really like Tony's idea, but this has caught my eye also. I haven't bought an RC harness yet, so trying to decide which way to go. I can see doing Tony's prussic knots being a no-go for the padded waist style harnesses.


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

I’ll be “that guy” I guess, but I don’t understand the point of this post. It should be obvious that someone wearing something less restrictive wouldn’t want to go back to a traditional fall restraint harness. With that train of thought we would all go back to wearing nothing. What needs to be asked, is who has fallen wearing a rock climbing harness?
I’ve not read every page, so I apologize if this has been mentioned.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> I’ll be “that guy” I guess, but I don’t understand the point of this post. It should be obvious that someone wearing something less restrictive wouldn’t want to go back to a traditional fall restraint harness. With that train of thought we would all go back to wearing nothing. What needs to be asked, is who has fallen wearing a rock climbing harness?
> I’ve not read every page, so I apologize if this has been mentioned.


This person may have been the first to fall while hunting with a RC harness or at least the first I've heard of.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2347622&highlight=fell+harness


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

"Jeff25

Fell out of my stand today
Well it finally happened to me. Around 8 this morning a had a buck come in behind me on my left side, he was working his way towards me and from what I could tell he looked like a 2.5 year old. he ended up turning around and going back the way he came before I got a real good look at him, so I hung the bow back up. The deer then makes a hard left like he is going to circle around to the left of my tree. So I spin around to face that way and somehow lost my balance. I was balancing on the edge of my platform for a split second but there was no hope, so I just let myself fall knowing my harness would catch me. I fell on the opposite side of my sticks but since I wear a rock climbing harness I was facing the tree. My first initial thought was "where's the deer" I leaned around the tree and he had no clue what happened. So I push off the tree and get one knee back up on the platform and climb back up. The deer ended up heading away from me but never had a clue I was there. The fall was actually pretty smooth and didn't hurt at all. Just glad I had my harness on!"


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

Good to know all worked as planned. One of my biggest hold-ups as far as the rock climbing harness goes, is being hooked in front. I just picture being spun around to face the tree and getting a step in the eye. Maybe an unfounded fear, but to me they’re made for an entirely different type of fall than industrial/hunting type fall restrain devices.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> Good to know all worked as planned. One of my biggest hold-ups as far as the rock climbing harness goes, is being hooked in front. *I just picture being spun around to face **the tree and getting a step in the eye*. Maybe an unfounded fear, but to me they’re made for an entirely different type of fall than industrial/hunting type fall restrain devices.


I'm not sure if you read the whole thread but I asked the OP that question. A face plant didn't happen.


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> Good to know all worked as planned. One of my biggest hold-ups as far as the rock climbing harness goes, is being hooked in front. I just picture being spun around to face the tree and getting a step in the eye. Maybe an unfounded fear, but to me they’re made for an entirely different type of fall than industrial/hunting type fall restrain devices.


Any fall with any harness has the potential to be very violent and injuries are likely. The thing is with either full body harness or a rock climbing harness if you have your tether positioned correctly you shouldn't even be "falling"......and if you are falling it shouldn't be more than a foot. It seems alot of guys think they're going to be free falling and then abruptly stopped and spun around because they're tied in the front. 

So like I said if you have the tie off and tether setup properly you should barely make it off the platform.


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

Magis, 
I won't use screw in steps, regardless of the harness for that reason.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Ned250 said:


> Hmmmmmm, I'm a noob so go easy on me. *Is the sewing in that waist band strong enough to hold that over time? * I'm a hangon/sticks guy, so I've been trying to figure out the best solution for a lineman's rope. I really like Tony's idea, but this has caught my eye also. I haven't bought an RC harness yet, so trying to decide which way to go. I can see doing Tony's prussic knots being a no-go for the padded waist style harnesses.


Keep in mind that the sling is being used as a lineman's belt. When installing sticks or a hang on you're leaning back and all of the pressure/weight is on the sling and not on the stitching or webbing the sling is run through. You're not hanging from it. Even if for some reason the webbing/stitching should fail during a slip the sling is still in tact and you don't fall. Your lineman's belt is just "captured" inside the harness' waist belt making it neat and out of the way.


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

Tony219er said:


> Any fall with any harness has the potential to be very violent and injuries are likely. The thing is with either full body harness or a rock climbing harness if you have your tether positioned correctly you shouldn't even be "falling"......and if you are falling it shouldn't be more than a foot. It seems alot of guys think they're going to be free falling and then abruptly stopped and spun around because they're tied in the front.
> 
> So like I said if you have the tie off and tether setup properly you should barely make it off the platform.


When in the stand, I agree. But while hooked to my lifeline I'm going to fall about a foot and a half. Not a big fall, but still something I think about.


----------



## zachd (Dec 3, 2013)

M.Magis said:


> Good to know all worked as planned. One of my biggest hold-ups as far as the rock climbing harness goes, is being hooked in front. I just picture being spun around to face the tree and getting a step in the eye. Maybe an unfounded fear, but to me they’re made for an entirely different type of fall than industrial/hunting type fall restrain devices.


As others have stated, if you have your tether in the right position your fall should be very minimal. However, one of the biggest safety concerns today is impalement due to steel screw in steps. The harness manufacturers are seeing a spike in lawsuits due to people being impaled when they fall only for them (or their family) to turn around and sue the harness manufacturer because they assumed now they are wearing a harness its impossible to get hurt. A friend of mine is a Highway Patrolman and responded to wellbeing call when a husband didn't come home or answer his cell phone, the wife knew where he was hunting and my friend found him impaled, hanging from a step. His safety harness tether popped almost all of the loops, so it was in the process of slowing him down but it didn't happen fast enough. IMO the RC harness allows you to put your tether in a spot that makes it easier to maneuver and still manage the distance of your fall if you fall.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

M.Magis said:


> Good to know all worked as planned. One of my biggest hold-ups as far as the rock climbing harness goes, is being hooked in front. I just picture being spun around to face the tree and getting a step in the eye. Maybe an unfounded fear, but to me they’re made for an entirely different type of fall than industrial/hunting type fall restrain devices.


The title " after hunting with a rock climbing harness" Is there for a reason. From those who actually tried one, we haven't seen these responses. The only negative responses have come from those who haven't tried.
If it spins you around, it will also have your top half pulling away from the step. Since most accidents happen while climbing in and out of the tree, facing the tree the full body harness would pull the upper body into the tree step for your eye implant. Then after being knocked out it, could kill from suspension trauma. After using a full body harness since they first came out and the last 3 years with a rock climbing harness, I'll stick with the rock climber harness for hunting out of trees.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Ned250 said:


> Hmmmmmm, I'm a noob so go easy on me. * Is the sewing in that waist band strong enough to hold that over time?* I'm a hangon/sticks guy, so I've been trying to figure out the best solution for a lineman's rope. I really like Tony's idea, but this has caught my eye also. I haven't bought an RC harness yet, so trying to decide which way to go. I can see doing Tony's prussic knots being a no-go for the padded waist style harnesses.


The waist band is just a padded sleeve that the main nylon waist strap goes thru. The green strap is a stitched nylon sling, that's rated at 32 Kn or a tad over 7000#.


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

thirdhandman said:


> The title " after hunting with a rock climbing harness" Is there for a reason. From those who actually tried one, we haven't seen these responses. The only negative responses have come from those who haven't tried.
> If it spins you around, it will also have your top half pulling away from the step. Since most accidents happen while climbing in and out of the tree, facing the tree the full body harness would pull the upper body into the tree step for your eye implant. Then after being knocked out it, could kill from suspension trauma. After using a full body harness since they first came out and the last 3 years with a rock climbing harness, I'll stick with the rock climber harness for hunting out of trees.


My point being, the only responses that are relevant are those from people that have fallen while wearing one. So far, I’ve only seeing one of those. No offense, but you telling me you love wearing it means nothing. I love wearing no harness, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I can say with complete confidence that I "hunt" better with the rock climbing harness. It is more comfortable. It is less restrictive. It simply can't get in the way like my previous Muddy or summit Seat of the pants harness could. It is much lighter and smaller and therefor easier to carry and wear. I know that my previous harnesses annoyed me either a little or a lot depending on the situation. The only real negative I've found with my rc harness is that when walking is that the leg slings can make a "zip-zip" noise because they rub together. But there's really no reason to wear it while hiking in or out because it only takes a moment to put it on.

I hated having the tether strap coming out from under my jacket around my neck with the customary hunters harness. I really hated wearing a rain coat and the harness. The typical harness chest straps were frequently in the way. I'm not sure how the rc harness will work in the rain. One problem with any harness is that in rain the tether basically wicks/funnels water to it's attachment point. Maybe I can keep a little low hang in the tether with a wick tied to it so much water doesn't get to me. With the traditional harness I never could keep a decent amount of water from finding its way down my back. I'm fairly certain the rc harness won't be as bad in the rain as the traditional harness.

I hope I never give my harness a serious test!!!!!


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> My point being, the only responses that are relevant are those from people that have fallen while wearing one. So far, I’ve only seeing one of those. No offense, but you telling me you love wearing it means nothing. I love wearing no harness, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe.


In all fairness we rarely hear from someone who has fallen wearing a regular tree stand harness either or the outcome of the fall. There are not that many RC harnesses being worn compared to thousands of regular harnesses. Maybe there's only been that one fall when wearing a RC harness, that's a good thing.


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

houser52 said:


> In all fairness we rarely hear from someone who has fallen wearing a regular tree stand harness either or the outcome of the fall. There are not that many RC harnesses being worn compared to thousands of regular harnesses. Maybe there's only been that one fall when wearing a RC harness, that's a good thing.


Yes, you’re absolutely right. I guess I just didn’t want anyone to get the impression that just because people like wearing them, that they’re safe alternative. I’m not saying they aren’t, but I don’t think we know yet. If comfort and convenience were all that mattered, none of us would were one at all. I look at these threads closely because I'd love to switch when the time comes. But, I need evidence that they're safe before I consider it.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> Yes, you’re absolutely right. I guess I just didn’t want anyone to get the impression that just because people like wearing them, that they’re safe alternative. I’m not saying they aren’t, but I don’t think we know yet. If comfort and convenience were all that mattered, none of us would were one at all. I look at these threads closely because I'd love to switch when the time comes. But, I need evidence that they're safe before I consider it.


Evidence? Us guys using them now are the guinea pigs and we are putting our heads together working out the particulars of what works well and what doesn't.


----------



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

houser52 said:


> Keep in mind that the sling is being used as a lineman's belt. When installing sticks or a hang on you're leaning back and all of the pressure/weight is on the sling and not on the stitching or webbing the sling is run through. You're not hanging from it. Even if for some reason the webbing/stitching should fail during a slip the sling is still in tact and you don't fall. Your lineman's belt is just "captured" inside the harness' waist belt making it neat and out of the way.





tpcollins said:


> The waist band is just a padded sleeve that the main nylon waist strap goes thru. The green strap is a stitched nylon sling, that's rated at 32 Kn or a tad over 7000#.


Thank you for the responses - they make total sense!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

M.Magis said:


> My point being, the only responses that are relevant are those from people that have fallen while wearing one. So far, I’ve only seeing one of those. No offense, but you telling me you love wearing it means nothing. I love wearing no harness, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe.


I started this thread because I wanted to see if other hunters who had tried both styles of harnesses, felt the same a I do. Real life users who have used both types of harnesses to tell us what they thought after actually trying them. That would help keep the people who have no experience, from adding their negative thoughts without trying a rock climbing harness.

Most of the responses were from people who tried both and only one was questioning his decision. The rest will not go back to a full body harness. No offence, but guessing what might happen serves no purpose. The life you save might be your own. Don't take my word or anybody elses. Try it for yourself.:wink:


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

The thing is that most of the Rock Climbing harnesses are relatively cheap and a nice harness can be found for under $50, for most of us that's relatively affordable. Try one and if you don't like it you can either return it or just sell it on here. So really there's nothing to lose but possibly something to gain.....give it a shot and see for yourself.


----------



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

Tony219er said:


> The thing is that most of the Rock Climbing harnesses are relatively cheap and a nice harness can be found for under $50, for most of us that's relatively affordable. Try one and if you don't like it you can either return it or just sell it on here. So really there's nothing to lose but possibly something to gain.....give it a shot and see for yourself.


I'm headed to EMS tonight to pick one up along with some rope and biners. Can't wait!


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

houser52 said:


> Evidence? Us guys using them now are the guinea pigs and we are putting our heads together working out the particulars of what works well and what doesn't.


I guess some of you aren’t understanding what I’m saying. I could care less if they’re comfortable, cheaper, easier to move in, etc…. All I care about is how they react if someone was to fall. Like I said, if price, comfort, and maneuverability was all that mattered, I wouldn’t wear a harness at all. 
I’ve looked through large industrial safety catalogs and websites, and I’ve not seen one OSHA approved fall restraint system with the tether attachment in the front. That makes me concerned that there’s a reason.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> I guess some of you aren’t understanding what I’m saying. I could care less if they’re comfortable, cheaper, easier to move in, etc…. All I care about is how they react if someone was to fall. Like I said, if price, comfort, and maneuverability was all that mattered, I wouldn’t wear a harness at all.
> I’ve looked through large industrial safety catalogs and websites, and I’ve not seen one OSHA approved fall restraint system with the tether attachment in the front. That makes me concerned that there’s a reason.


:

:BangHead:


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Magis: Believe it or not Tree arborist make a living in trees and a division of osha is over them. They use a system similar to a rc harness. I personally had a conversation with one of the officers of osha and he too is now wearing a rc harness to hunt. Over 400 responses from people who have used both that are positive. Don't believe us, try it for yourself and you make the decision. That is as simple as it gets.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Tony219er said:


> The thing is that most of the Rock Climbing harnesses are relatively cheap and a nice harness can be found for under $50, for most of us that's relatively affordable. Try one and if you don't like it you can either return it or just sell it on here. So really there's nothing to lose but possibly something to gain.....give it a shot and see for yourself.


There is a bit more than just getting a RC harness willy-nilly. A dynamic lanyard, proper knowledge of tying a prussic, and not all carabiners are created equal, along with a properly rated rope as the lifeline - imo.


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> There is a bit more than just getting a RC harness willy-nilly. A dynamic lanyard, proper knowledge of tying a prussic, and not all carabiners are created equal, along with a properly rated rope as the lifeline - imo.


Thanks for pointing that out. All off those things are usually already owned by people who have owned other harnesses. If they don't have those items they can be bought already assembled and usually cheaper than what you could make them for. 

This thread is about harnesses, not carabiners, not knots, but harnesses. Good call though.


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

Not the "dynamic" thing again...


----------



## zachd (Dec 3, 2013)

tpcollins said:


> There is a bit more than just getting a RC harness willy-nilly. A dynamic lanyard, proper knowledge of tying a prussic, and not all carabiners are created equal, along with a properly rated rope as the lifeline - imo.


Yes this is true. I purchased a HSS ultra-lite for $100. I purchased my black diamond harness ($45), 30' of static rope for prusik and line mans belt ($12), 3 aluminum locking gate carabineers ($30), 2 aluminum spring gate carabineers just to hook gear into the gear loops ($10) and 35' of dynamic rope ($30) which was a grand total of $127, however I got lucky and the local store was having a sale and everything was 30% off so I walked out of there for $89 + tax. 

In general by the time you buy the harness, throw in a few carabineers, and some rope to make a line mans belt the cost is about a wash to what a hunting harness will get you. So if you don't wear a harness already, either option is going to cost you about the same. If you are making the switch you might spend $30-40 more than what you can sell your traditional harness for but for me it was worth it.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

crankn101 said:


> Not the "dynamic" thing again...



*Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.*

*Abraham Lincoln*


----------



## k&j8 (Mar 16, 2012)

M.Magis said:


> I guess some of you aren’t understanding what I’m saying. I could care less if they’re comfortable, cheaper, easier to move in, etc…. All I care about is how they react if someone was to fall. Like I said, if price, comfort, and maneuverability was all that mattered, I wouldn’t wear a harness at all.
> I’ve looked through large industrial safety catalogs and websites, and I’ve not seen one OSHA approved fall restraint system with the tether attachment in the front. That makes me concerned that there’s a reason.


I just spent about 15 minutes doing a google search for osha approved arborist saddles (the tether attaches in the front) and found lots of them. These are basically the same design as rock climbing harnesses, or they at least have as much in common as HSS, Muddy, etc, hunting harnesses (not osha approved either by the way) have in common with industrial full body harnesses.

http://www.arborist.com/category/1133/Climbing-Saddles.html

http://www.willhammerindustries.com/arborist-saddle-harness/


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Full body harnesses that connect in the dorsal area are good harnesses in areas where other workers are available to help rescue. But when working up in a tree and hunting, self rescue is needed more. It is my belief that if Hunter Safety System had entered the market with a rock climbing harness with D loops sewn in for linemans belts, we probably would not be discussing full body harnesses today.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

A few years back the* industrial full body harnesses *is what led me to buy a Tree Spider, which I liked very much. Then I started seeing 3rdhand's comments on RC harnesses. So for the first time I hung from a rafter in the garage in my Tree Spider - it sucked. So after trying several different models, I chose a particular RC harness and it's what I've been using this year.

Being a newbie to RC harnesses, I asked numerous questions on two rock climbing forums and a tree arborist forum, and gleaned a ton of information about the safest ways to connect to the lifeline. I would think one of the biggest issue for some making the switch to a RC harness would be the usual halfazz way for some of going with what's the cheapest and probably not the safest. I almost think some might be better off staying with the traditional rear tether safety harness, still use a lifeline and prusik friction knot properly, and hope they never fall . . .


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

crankn101 said:


> I did a quick search for stretch and how much better you are with a dynamic rope... .54"-1.08" on a 3-6' fall....


:moon::nyah::guitarist::band::laugh::drummer:




































:smile_red_bike:


----------



## msm210 (Aug 11, 2008)

tpcollins said:


> I got to playing with my Aspir last night and since the waist strap goes thru a padded waist band, I was able to sleeve a 36" nylon sling thru it and I can use it with a lineman's belt for hanging sticks and stands. Someone else posted something similar to this, seems like a decent way to stay attached.


Tpcollins - how hard is it to thread the green belt through the waistband padding? I ordered the Aspir last night and I like how you made the linesman belt.


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

k&j8 said:


> I just spent about 15 minutes doing a google search for osha approved arborist saddles (the tether attaches in the front) and found lots of them. These are basically the same design as rock climbing harnesses, or they at least have as much in common as HSS, Muddy, etc, hunting harnesses (not osha approved either by the way) have in common with industrial full body harnesses.
> 
> http://www.arborist.com/category/1133/Climbing-Saddles.html
> 
> http://www.willhammerindustries.com/arborist-saddle-harness/


I have seen those, but to me they’re just like a RC harness, designed to connect and support the weight of a person while facing the tree. All of the industrial fall restraint harnesses I’ve looked at hook in the back. Again, I don’t know that being hooked in the front is bad, but it worries me. 
Another question, how easy is it to slide the prussic up the lifeline while climbing? It seems like it might be a bit more awkward with the attachment point being around the waist. I’m used to reaching up while climbing to slide the prussic, it’s almost effortless. Not that it’s a deal breaker, just something I’m curious about.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

M.Magis said:


> I have seen those, but to me they’re just like a RC harness, designed to connect and support the weight of a person while facing the tree. All of the industrial fall restraint harnesses I’ve looked at hook in the back. Again, I don’t know that being hooked in the front is bad, but it worries me.
> *Another question, how easy is it to slide the prussic up the lifeline while climbing?* It seems like it might be a bit more awkward with the attachment point being around the waist. I’m used to reaching up while climbing to slide the prussic, it’s almost effortless. Not that it’s a deal breaker, just something I’m curious about.


Like you said, almost effortless. When climbing sticks or ladders, I keep my hand under the prusik and just reach for the steps as I normally would climb. That just pushes the prusik up every time I reach up for another step.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

magis: Those concerns and questions would be easily answered if you actually tried it for yourself. Then and only then can you decide which is best for you.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

msm210 said:


> Tpcollins - how hard is it to thread the green belt through the waistband padding? I ordered the Aspir last night and I like how you made the linesman belt.


It was fairly easy but I did use a blunt nosed dinner knife to push it thru. I wouldn't want to leave it this way throughout the season, and since I still have my Tree Spider and lineman's belt, I would probably use that for hanging/removing stands and climbing sticks instead. But it does look like it ill work effectively. Congrats on the Aspir.


----------



## Ches (Aug 3, 2009)

Okie X said:


> Nothing is more comfortable, nonrestrictive, or as lite as the Summit SOP.
> 
> So I have no desire to try a rock harness or a harness that says Muddy on it 17 times.


I use the original Summit Seat-o-pants and love it also. Never tried a rock climbing harness, most likely will not. You don't leave fish to find fish.
Ches.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Ches said:


> I use the original Summit Seat-o-pants and love it also. Never tried a rock climbing harness, most likely will not. You don't leave fish to find fish.
> Ches.


I had an original SOP for about 2 days and returned it.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Its actually been a pretty informative thread. Lets get back to people who actually tried the rock climbing harness. No need to muddy the waters with if's and's and but's.


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

thirdhandman said:


> magis: Those concerns and questions would be easily answered if you actually tried it for yourself. Then and only then can you decide which is best for you.


You are correct. But at the time I really don't have any problems with my SOP. And I'm not willing to risk my life or health just because someone said "it should work". I need to know it'll work. So far, I think it should work. But I am interested, which is why I ask the questions. Maybe next year.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Not arguing but I'm sure is will com across that way. I just don't know how to sugar coat this.

So if* you're not willing to risk your life or health just because someone said it should work, *why waste their time asking? You really need to try it for yourself. You may like it. You may not. You will never know until you try one.


----------



## Doyle Ray (Mar 28, 2013)

thirdhandman said:


> Its actually been a pretty informative thread. Lets get back to people who actually tried the rock climbing harness. No need to muddy the waters with if's and's and but's.


I have hunted out of my HSS harness for years - 95% from a climbing stand using a rope strap with prusik. I switched to a RC harness to see for myself how it works and how it feels to hang from. I have had 6 hunts using the RC harness so far and I can say without doubt I will never go back. I just wish I would have considered this before I purchased the new HSS Elite..... anyone need one? Brand new, never used, good price..


----------



## Okie X (Dec 3, 2005)

You guys are leaving one thing out of the equation.

Rock climbers and tree cutters wear helmets.

So let's see those photos of those camo helmets.

JK....carry on.


----------



## M.Magis (Oct 2, 2003)

thirdhandman said:


> Not arguing but I'm sure is will com across that way. I just don't know how to sugar coat this.
> 
> So if* you're not willing to risk your life or health just because someone said it should work, *why waste their time asking? You really need to try it for yourself. You may like it. You may not. You will never know until you try one.


I KNOW I would like wearing one, but that's not what I'm worried about. My first post here was pointing out that the original question was sort of pointless, it should be obvious that anyone that’s switched over to a RC harness is going to like it better. That’s the main reason to switch, more maneuverability. Who wouldn’t like that better than a traditional harness? I was hoping someone could point to some statistics, or just some examples, of what happens when someone falls while facing away from the tree since that’s not what RC harnesses are designed for. There was one example provided, which was very helpful and encouraging. One example is far from being evidence of it being perfectly safe, but it’s a start. And as mentioned, even traditional harnesses aren’t perfectly safe, but at least we know the dangers. I guess I’m surprised no one else is asking questions, just blindly assuming it’ll work. That’s just not me.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

M.Magis said:


> *I was hoping someone could point to some statistics, or just some examples, of what happens when someone falls while facing away from the tree since that’s not what RC harnesses are designed for.*


So what exactly were RC harnesses designed for?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I under stand what your are saying now. Pointless is people giving opinions without trying so they have no basis for their statements. The whole purpose of this thread was for people who have worn both types of harnesses to tell what they liked and disliked and what they found after using a harness. Why they felt safer in a R/C harness than a full body harness.
Its real easy for people to sit back and tear things apart without trying. That information is totally useless. Of the ones that tried it and can now tell from experience, their information is much more useful.

What you are looking for doesn't exist. I just started using one 3 years ago. To be real honest, It was the guys from 20' up that open my eyes to a front connection vs rear connection and they are out of business. I have worn a full body harness since they became available, and didn't like a lot of things about them. So I was open to try something different. I've discussed this on AT for about 3 years now and there are now a lot of guys that feel the same as I . That is,that we will never go back to a full body harness for bow hunting.

Part of the reason you can't find statistics on use of r/c harness for treestands is it is just now being accepted by a few. The few who have accepted R/C harness are probably a little more safety conscious than others and haven't had too many falls. There aren't any statics for use of R/C harness treestand accidents.


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

M.Magis said:


> I KNOW I would like wearing one, but that's not what I'm worried about. My first post here was pointing out that the original question was sort of pointless, it should be obvious that anyone that’s switched over to a RC harness is going to like it better. That’s the main reason to switch, more maneuverability. Who wouldn’t like that better than a traditional harness? I was hoping someone could point to some statistics, or just some examples, of what happens when someone falls while facing away from the tree since that’s not what RC harnesses are designed for. There was one example provided, which was very helpful and encouraging. One example is far from being evidence of it being perfectly safe, but it’s a start. And as mentioned, even traditional harnesses aren’t perfectly safe, but at least we know the dangers. I guess I’m surprised no one else is asking questions, just blindly assuming it’ll work. That’s just not me.


It's not in our job description to convince you what to use. You have to make the decision for yourself. Either you're comfortable with making the choice to try something different or you aren't. Don't fuss about being unconvinced. If you don't feel like you have enough info yet, no worries, just use a traditional harness and be cool with it.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

TC260: Are you a union worker by chance?:jksign:


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> TC260: Are you a union worker by chance?:jksign:


Jim - that "not my job" was a dead give away . . .


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

Good one .

FWIW, I'm a small business owner so there isn't much that's not my job .


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Worked 20 years in the trucking industry with union drivers. It was funny that a driver could go across the country, but when it got to the terminal he had to stop a mechanic from doing his job to fill the truck with diesel.
He also could not back it into the dock because it wasn't in his job description. Had to have a yard hostler back it in for him.


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> A few years back the* industrial full body harnesses *is what led me to buy a Tree Spider, which I liked very much. Then I started seeing 3rdhand's comments on RC harnesses. So for the first time I hung from a rafter in the garage in my Tree Spider - it sucked. So after trying several different models, I chose a particular RC harness and it's what I've been using this year.
> 
> Being a newbie to RC harnesses, I asked numerous questions on two rock climbing forums and a tree arborist forum, and gleaned a ton of information about the safest ways to connect to the lifeline. *I would think one of the biggest issue for some making the switch to a RC harness would be the usual halfazz way for some of going with what's the cheapest and probably not the safest. I almost think some might be better off staying with the traditional rear tether safety harness, still use a lifeline and prusik friction knot properly, and hope they never fall* . . .


I can't say I have never met anyone one who would put a dollar amount on their safety nor have I ever heard anyone say that. You're right that some should and most likely will stay with a traditional harness and I don't see anything wrong with that, afterall it's a lot better than nothing at all. I'm pretty sure we all hope we never fall, I know I certainly hope nobody falls but that's very unlikely. 

I do feel some of the guys in this thread are making some of this much more complicated than it needs to be.......I see setups with dogbone's, ascender's, multiple carabiner's, etc. IMO that's just a bunch of unnecessary stuff and more possibilities for something to go wrong and not needed in this application. To each there own though.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Tony219er said:


> I can't say I have never met anyone one *who would put a dollar amount on their safety* nor have I ever heard anyone say that.


There are a couple of these RC threads currently on AT and I've seen several posts guys asking "what's the cheapest" - if they used the word frugal, there'd be no alarm. Two years ago I added lifelines to all my hang-ons but I would switch the Tree Spider attachment to the overhead strap once on stand. After researching about Jim's insistence for RC harnesses this year, I realized my lifeline were way under rated - and I should stay attached 100% of the time. 

I've probably spent $350 or more so far this year getting setup to use a RC harness and upgrading my lifelines - and a lot of the stuff I bought I'll never use. But I do feel a helluva lot safer in the stand this year!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

TP: You have done a whole lot of research that I didn't do.I commend you for taking the time and energy. 

At a hunting show I picked up 250' 1/2" dynamic rope for lifelines for $80. That is enough to do 10 stands for me at varying heights. My Black Diamond Vario was $55 ttd. Had several carabiners and several girth hitch ropes with prusiks from HSS.Triple locking gate carabiners are better and way more expensive, but the double lock gate works fine. Sometimes we over think things and make them more complicated than the really need to be.

Looked at a car recently. It had 10 air bags. Was it safer? probably. There was 9 more things to go wrong with the car that weren't needed for me, that could potentially actually cause an accident. 99% of the time I drive without other passengers.


----------



## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

I was saved by a Summit SOP back in 2005. I fell and it saved my life. Since then I have always taken treestand safety even more seriously, including lifelines on every stand that I have (over 20 locations). I still have been stuck on the SOP harness design and use one as of today, knowing that it will save my life when I need it to.

That being said, I have read through almost every post in this thread and I just placed an order for a Black Diamond Vario Speed Harness and Beal Dynaclip 75cm. I plan on using my current rope/prusik that I tie off with now and carabiners. There is just too much positive that I am seeing out of using such a set up for hunting situation.

Looking forward to joining the rock climbing harness club.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Dec: When you get your own. Hang out with it and see what it feels like at ground level. I too liked the seat of the pants. I like the feel while hanging much more with the Vario and have much more control with the rope in front. Lets everybody know what you feel after trying it.


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

Finally ordered a Black Diamond Vario today. Can't wait to make the switch.


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm interested in this... 

I used to be a saddle hunter, and have switched back to hunting from a stand (long story)

I like my Muddy Harness, but definitely see the advantage to using a rock climbing harness. 

Can anyone explain the most popular models? I like the look of the Vario, but I'm concerned about not having the linemans belt hookup. What are y'all doing for the Linemans belt, just hooking it to the center piece?


----------



## Blackhawkhunter (Aug 31, 2009)

The Black Diamond Vario is a great harness, I have a couple of them. There has been some good ideas on this thread on how to attach a linesman belt, I think tony219er posted up a great system.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

For hanging stands and steps I just hook both sides in the belay loop. For sticks I use a linesman belt.


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

Blackhawkhunter said:


> The Black Diamond Vario is a great harness, I have a couple of them. There has been some good ideas on this thread on how to attach a linesman belt, I think tony219er posted up a great system.


Yep, his method is also what I'm gonna try. Here it is again: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2330268&page=12&p=1071407012#post1071407012


----------



## jeff25 (Dec 8, 2011)

I would also like to add that mine helped me drag my deer out. My harness has a loop on the back, just girth hitched around his horns clipped onto my harness and started walking


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

JPW77 said:


> Yep, his method is also what I'm gonna try. Here it is again: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2330268&page=12&p=1071407012#post1071407012


Thanks for this... that is brilliant. 

Looks like I'm about to test this out!


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

Tony219er said:


> Some nice setups you guys have but some of them seem a little overly complicated.....I'd think the less connections the better off you'd be.
> 
> I've been hunting with a rock climbing harness for 2 seasons now and I doubt I'll go back to a conventional full body harness. Mainly for a few reasons:
> 
> ...


This is BRILLIANT!!! Just bought a RC harness.


----------



## algdog (Jun 13, 2005)

so after reviewing this thread for a while and looking at my current setup, I have decided to upgrade to a arborist harness. I was looking for some opinions

my main concern is getting in a stand that doesn't have a line already set up for a safety line. club I hunt with 15 stands on it. first come first serve and none of them are set up with safety lines. 
my thoughts are this. use my safety line also as a haul line to bring my bow and pack up into the stand. use my harness with lineman's rope hooked to the center ring of my harness and clip into anything possible on the way up the tree. once in the tree, take my safety line and tie it around the tree. hook to the safety line with a 2 ft tether to a petzl piranha descender and half hitch over the top of the descender to secure me to the rope. haul up my stuff and then let the safety line to the ground.

I would keep the descender and tether close to tight so when a fall happens I don't fall much, if I can't get back into the stand use the safety rope and piranha to descend to the ground. 
does this sound like a plan ? or is there any way else to do this in trees that do not have safety rope already set up

this thread really got me thinking about my current setup, dangling from a line hooked to my back with no way of getting out of it , if I can't reach my stand or ladder


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

"this thread really got me thinking about my current setup, dangling from a line hooked to my back with no way of getting out of it , if I can't reach my stand or ladder"

exact same thoughts that I had, since I hunt alone alot and really did not like the idea of hanging there like a stuck pig and then dying from suspension truama in the event of a fall, at least now I have a rc harness which I am happy to use and a self rescue plan. For what its worth, I feel alot more comfortable now in the stand and that makes bowhunting a lot more enjoyable for me.


----------



## algdog (Jun 13, 2005)

so what do you have for a rescue plan?

any thoughts on that piranha descender for use on a safety line as a plan.


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

algdog said:


> so what do you have for a rescue plan?
> 
> any thoughts on that piranha descender for use on a safety line as a plan.
> 
> View attachment 2076565


two prusiks tied into the lifeline, one to attach to rc harness with a Beal dynaclip and another with a big loop down lower to step into to relieve the pressure on the upper prusik, lower the upper prusik, then lower the step prusik and repeat. I am not an expert and can not comment on your use of the descender, I am sure a real climber could chime in here.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

algdog said:


> so what do you have for a rescue plan?
> 
> any thoughts on that piranha descender for use on a safety line as a plan.
> 
> View attachment 2076565



I think too many people are concerned with self rescue and getting back down to the ground whereas we should just make sure there is minimum slack in our setup so we can simply get back onto the stand, tree steps, or climbing sticks (a climber is a different story). You do realize that piranha is for rappelling and not a fall arrest? 

I don't anticipate falling very far with this much slack in my lanyard . . .


----------



## leftyhunter (Mar 6, 2005)

tagged for later view
TTT


----------



## tcarter86 (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm in the stand now with black diamond vario and a beal Dyna clip and I got to say I like it a whole lot. 

Used tonys idea to put a prussik knot on each side to have linesman loops on the harness.

Glad I found this thread which made me try it out.


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

tpcollins said:


> I think too many people are concerned with self rescue and getting back down to the ground whereas we should just make sure there is minimum slack in our setup so we can simply get back onto the stand, tree steps, or climbing sticks (a climber is a different story). You do realize that piranha is for rappelling and not a fall arrest?
> 
> I don't anticipate falling very far with this much slack in my lanyard . . .


I think he was suggesting using something similar in the event of a fall, clipping it in, tying it into the life line and rappelling down. 
I too considered it, even posted about it in this thread, but as Mr. Collins said, less slack = less fall, will be able to get back to the stand, or at the very least to a step/stick to get back up. I couldn't find a lanyard to connect to the life line, and didn't trust my knot tying skills, so I purchased a PAS 22™ (Personal Anchor System). It's rated for 22 kN. It's my lanyard that hooks to the prussik and then to my biner on my harness. It's kept taut when I'm sitting and when I stand it's the perfect height to allow freedom of movement.


----------



## TC260 (Jun 11, 2012)

algdog said:


> so after reviewing this thread for a while and looking at my current setup, I have decided to upgrade to a arborist harness. I was looking for some opinions


Make sure you actually handle one first and look at how how beefy they are before ordering one. I climb on a Bry-Dan saddle and love it but wouldn't want to haul it into the woods to hunt with.


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

I've got the Black Diamond Momentum and I barely know I'm wearing it, as opposed to something that may be heavy like that.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Poorscouserbob - is that PAS a static or dynamic one? (Where's crankn101)?


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

tpcollins said:


> Poorscouserbob - is that PAS a static or dynamic one? (Where's crankn101)?


 Im here, shaking my head...


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Socialists


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

houser52 said:


> socialists



:amen:


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> :amen:



:wink:


----------



## algdog (Jun 13, 2005)

You do realize that piranha is for rappelling and not a fall arrest? 

yes I see that the piranha is for rappelling, just wanted an opinion on taking two full wraps on the horns. and a half hitch over the top to lock the device, if it would work as a fall arrest and then used if I can't make it back into the climber or strap on tree stand.

what do you think,


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> Attach the loop end of your choker line to the belay loop. Now go around the tree and attach the other end by putting a carabiner through the prusik and the belay loop.


Can you please post pictures of this?


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

tpcollins said:


> Poorscouserbob - is that PAS a static or dynamic one? (Where's crankn101)?


TP, dynamic. (according to the gentleman who suggested it) (who also gave me a 90 minute lecture on the difference, when I asked him about RC harnesses and rope) 

I'd love to hear why Crankn101 is shaking his head. Don't take my post as being a%*hole-ish, if you've got knowledge or a better option, lay it on me.


----------



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

tpcollins said:


> I think too many people are concerned with self rescue and getting back down to the ground whereas we should just make sure there is minimum slack in our setup so we can simply get back onto the stand, tree steps, or climbing sticks (a climber is a different story). You do realize that piranha is for rappelling and not a fall arrest?
> 
> I don't anticipate falling very far with this much slack in my lanyard . . .


I think this is fine until you get trap doored and have no stand to climb back into....


----------



## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

My next question....do they make a set up for a fat guy - ?


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Garceau said:


> My next question....do they make a set up for a fat guy - ?


There are rock harnesses to fit just about any size waist.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Be sure on the correct way to attach your rope.
This way








And this way


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

poorscouserbob said:


> TP, dynamic.
> I'd love to hear why Crankn101 is shaking his head. Don't take my post as being a%*hole-ish, if you've got knowledge or a better option, lay it on me.



I was just wondering which it was - good that it's dynamic.



Garceau said:


> I think this is fine until you get trap doored and have no stand to climb back into....


All my lifelines are connected right above and inline with my climbing sticks. If the stand falls off the tree I'll just swing over to the same climbing sticks I used to climb up with . . .


----------



## poorscouserbob (Mar 11, 2014)

tpcollins said:


> I was just wondering which it was - good that it's dynamic.
> 
> 
> 
> All my lifelines are connected right above and inline with my climbing sticks. If the stand falls off the tree I'll just swing over to the same climbing sticks I used to climb up with . . .


Groovy, my lifelines are set up the same way. I would love one of the lanyards, I just can't seem to find them locally.


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

I've read the whole thread and now I'm super confused!!! 

I ordered the Black Diamond Vario speed harness. 

I have the rope and prussic from when I normally use my harness. 

My question is what is the best system for attaching from the prussic to the harness itself? Any pictures and product names would be REALLY appreciated. 

Thanks!


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

Putt4Doe said:


> I've read the whole thread and now I'm super confused!!!
> 
> I ordered the Black Diamond Vario speed harness.
> 
> ...


I use a Beal dynaclip to attach from the rc harness to the prusik, one end of the dynaclip at the rc attachment point is attached with a larch hitch and the dynaclip end attached to the prusik with a heavy duty locking carabiner, the prusik is pushed up the lifeline above my head and when in the stand I make sure that I take as much slack out of the system as possible so that it is taught when I am sitting down and with a little slack in it while standing. I run the dynaclip line under my right armpit and it runs behind my back/neck to the prusik. If you use bib coveralls, put this on underneath and run the rc attachment point thru the whiz zipper at the bottom.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Amazon still has the Beal Dynaclips. I have the 75cm and just ordered the 50cm. I would have like something around 60cm but these will do. Good luck.


----------



## sharpshot (Feb 9, 2006)

I switched last year. I won't go back. I use the q safe strap. It's nice bc it stays where you put it especially on slick trees and has adjustments for small diameter trees.


----------



## kcbuckeraser (Sep 7, 2005)

I use Hss lifelines. I have an extra Hss rope style treestrap. When climbing up or down the sticks, can I attach the carabiner from the lifeline prussic directly to the big end (loop) of the hss tree rope and then attach the prussic carabiner on the other end of the hss tree rope to my vario speed harness belay loop? That way I can stay 100%attached to the tree when climbing up or down then just shorten the hss tree rope when I sit?


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Yes?


----------



## kcbuckeraser (Sep 7, 2005)

snapcrackpop said:


> Yes?


Not sure how to interpret this. I ask because I am not a knot expert and I don't know if the rope style strap was intended for that or if it must be passed through itself like when cinched to a tree to be used properly.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Putt4Doe said:


> I've read the whole thread and now I'm super confused!!!
> 
> I ordered the Black Diamond Vario speed harness.
> 
> ...


Putt: I use the same system as you. Run your rope around the tree. Put the working end and the prussik through the loop like a girth hitch. Slide the prusik down to the belay loop on your vario and attach both together with a double lock carabiner.:wink:


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

Putt4Doe said:


> I've read the whole thread and now I'm super confused!!!
> 
> I ordered the Black Diamond Vario speed harness.
> 
> ...


Don't over think it buddy. I make my own tree tethers in which I use a 8'-10' piece of Assault rope for my tie off which is "choked" around the tree at appx at shoulder height. Then just tie your Prusik knot or whatever you are using for a friction knot to the main line and connect Prusik to harness with a good Caribiner....I prefer an aluminum biner (light weight) with a screw locking gate.


----------



## tackscall (Jul 26, 2004)

WildmanWilson said:


> Seems to me its a royal PITA to have to build all the rope and get everything ready just to use the RC harness. Why can't you just buy everything ready to go. I would go the RC harness if I didn't have to learn all the knots and what rope is right for this or that...Too much hassle. I'll just buy a regular one and be done with it.


I use a rc harness and I clip to the tether that came with my leggy bayou tss, it's that simple. I hunt almost exclusively from a climber and walk the tether up the tree as I go. Couldn't be simpler!


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

Thanks for the help y'all - in the tree in the rc harness and am enjoying it! I just wish I didn't have to step into it, but I'll trade stepping into it vs suspension trauma I reckon!


----------



## Ned250 (Aug 10, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> Putt: I use the same system as you. Run your rope around the tree. Put the working end and the prussik through the loop like a girth hitch. Slide the prusik down to the belay loop on your vario and attach both together with a double lock carabiner.:wink:


What's keeping the rope in position on the tree?

I switched to a RC harness a few weeks ago, thanks to this thread, and LOVE IT. I use the HSS rope that I already had, but I push the prussik knot up against the tree to keep the rope in place. I have ~3' bridge (?) attached to my harness and then the prussik.

I'd love to ditch the bridge (1 less thing to carry), but I can't see the rope staying in position on the tree very well with it just hanging loosely.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Ned250 said:


> What's keeping the rope in position on the tree?


In another thread Houser52 offered this solution . . . I'm still laughing.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

Ned250 said:


> What's keeping the rope in position on the tree?
> 
> I switched to a RC harness a few weeks ago, thanks to this thread, and LOVE IT. I use the HSS rope that I already had, but I push the prussik knot up against the tree to keep the rope in place. I have ~3' bridge (?) attached to my harness and then the prussik.
> 
> I'd love to ditch the bridge (1 less thing to carry), but I can't see the rope staying in position on the tree very well with it just hanging loosely.


I just choke it around the tree, never an issue smooth bark or rough bark. If you are really worried slap a screw in tree step right below it.


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> In another thread Houser52 offered this solution . . . I'm still laughing.



You know what they say, "necessity is the mother of invention"

:set1_rolf2::set1_rolf2:


----------



## Doyle Ray (Mar 28, 2013)

Putt4Doe said:


> I've read the whole thread and now I'm super confused!!!
> 
> I ordered the Black Diamond Vario speed harness.
> 
> ...


I have the same exact set up. I use the same carabiner I used with my HSS. Light weight carabiner from REI - twist lock rated at 24 kilonewtons ( 5400lbs )


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

Doyle Ray said:


> I have the same exact set up. I use the same carabiner I used with my HSS. Light weight carabiner from REI - twist lock rated at 24 kilonewtons ( 5400lbs )


Thanks - yeah I'm using the same system I did with my saddle - I was just curious if there was something else needed, but everyone answered my question. Thanks!


----------



## adr1601 (Oct 15, 2012)

I've got six sits with mine this week and so far so good. Just fine tuning the length and position of everything.

I think it's gonna be a winner.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Ned250 said:


> What's keeping the rope in position on the tree?
> 
> I switched to a RC harness a few weeks ago, thanks to this thread, and LOVE IT. I use the HSS rope that I already had, but I push the prussik knot up against the tree to keep the rope in place. I have ~3' bridge (?) attached to my harness and then the prussik.
> 
> I'd love to ditch the bridge (1 less thing to carry), but I can't see the rope staying in position on the tree very well with it just hanging loosely.


Sorry Ned250: I missed your question. Wrap the HSS rope around the tree and put the tail through the loop and cinch it down. That will stay in place on a telephone pole without the assistance of the prusik knot. Attach the prusik knot to the carabiner to your harness. While climbing with a climber just keep moving the loop up the tree as you go. When you are at the right height. Sit down, cinch the stabilizer straps down and adjust the prusik to give you just a couple inches when sitting. Run the rope under your arm and up to about head height. Hope this helps.:secret:


----------



## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

OK, so I have to say that I have now hunted with my Black Diamond Vario Speed Harness on four occasions. The verdict is that I am 1000% sold on this set up. The transition from traditional hunting harness to this rock climbing harness was very easy. I basically am using all of my life lines that I already have. I am also using my safety rope with prusik knot that came with my Summit SOP harness. In addition, I bought a 75mm Beal Dynaclip Lanyard to go between the harness and my safety rope. The Dynaclip is not mandatory for this set up, but it does make the set up a little more versatile and should provide a softer stop in the event of a fall.

I'm not going to bash on a traditional hunting harness, because I have been a long time proponent of them. One of my old Summit SOP harnesses actually saved my life during a fall that I took in 2005. A traditional hunting harness WILL save your life if used properly. That being said, the rock climbing harness is more comfortable, it is virtually tangle/twisted mess free when putting it on, it is less obtrusive in the stand in terms of freedom of movement, and I fell offers easier recovery in the event of a fall. I have not taken a test "fall" out of it. I have hung in it with all of my weight just a couple feet above the ground and while my SOP is not terribly uncomfortable to hang in, the rock climbing harness is actually more comfortable. In the event that I had to hang for a long time, I'd choose the rock climbing harness over my Summit SOP harness.

I plan on doing a tree stand safety video in the near future to compare the rock climbing harness vs. a standard hunting harness. I think the video will help a lot of hunters who 1) don't fully understand how to be safe in a tree regardless of the harness style and 2) want to see the differences that both of these harness types have to offer the hunter.

At the end of the day, I don't care if guys where a traditional hunting harness or a rock climbing harness, I simply want to see more hunters be safe in the field. I will say though from here forward I do not see me going back to a traditional hunting harness after hunting out of my rock climbing harness set up.


----------



## sb05 (Oct 14, 2005)

I have switched to R/C harness too. (Misty Mountain Gym Dandy) I love it. It defiantly gives you more freedom to move around. I have read all the post on here and thanks to all you guy's I have learned a lot. The hard part for me was trying to figure out how every thing was put together and learning the new lingo. I'm not a rock climber. It would be great to see more pics and a short explanation of what the different parts are and what they are called and maybe where to buy them.

Thanks


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

I don't know whether it's "funny" or "sad"..... But this thread sticks in my mind as a great example of how much of my bow hunting gear is not actually designed/sold and "merchandised" as "hunting gear." (Gear I have purchased specifically for hunting, but couldn't find "the right stuff" in the hunting department.) ~ It's almost as if the manufacturers really don't listen/think about "the details" regarding what archers really need from their gear. And many times, even when they do, the price is more and the quality is "lower."

Lights, packs, boots, tree climbing accessories etc.....


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

BrokenLimbs: I know what you mean there. That is why in past I have just designed my own. I just got off the phone with Goose Kearse the president of Misty Mountain. He was the one that made the ones for 20' up.
I ask about making his Gym Dandy with sewn in D loops on the sides for a linemans belt. He has a huge military contract and has no time to do it. Oh Well! Someone will do it eventually. Maybe SOP.


----------



## Putt4Doe (Sep 2, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> BrokenLimbs: I know what you mean there. That is why in past I have just designed my own. I just got off the phone with Goose Kearse the president of Misty Mountain. He was the one that made the ones for 20' up.
> I ask about making his Gym Dandy with sewn in D loops on the sides for a linemans belt. He has a huge military contract and has no time to do it. Oh Well! Someone will do it eventually. Maybe SOP.


That would be fantastic! 

I am completely sold on the RC harness. I don't like much having to step into it, but whatever - it's not that bad and takes maybe 30 seconds (probably the same time it took me to put my other harness on, but just feels strange because I'm sliding it up)

I love not having stuff up on my torso. Lets everything fit correctly and just overall is more comfortable. To think that I'm actually GAINING the fact that in the event of a fall, I don't have to worry about suspension trauma, is fantastic.


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

Tony219er or anyone else that has made linesman belt loops from prusic cord, approximately how long does the cord need to be to start with?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

DEC said:


> OK, so I have to say that I have now hunted with my Black Diamond Vario Speed Harness on four occasions. The verdict is that I am 1000% sold on this set up. The transition from traditional hunting harness to this rock climbing harness was very easy. *I basically am using all of my life lines that I already have. I am also using my safety rope with prusik knot that came with my Summit SOP harness. In addition, I bought a 75mm Beal Dynaclip Lanyard to go between the harness and my safety rope.* The Dynaclip is not mandatory for this set up, but it does make the set up a little more versatile and should provide a softer stop in the event of a fall.


I'm having trouble understand how you're using your lifelines and safety rope . . . do you ascend/descend always connected to the life line and are you switching the connection to the safety rope or adding a connection to it? Thanks.


----------



## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

tpcollins said:


> I'm having trouble understand how you're using your lifelines and safety rope . . . do you ascend/descend always connected to the life line and are you switching the connection to the safety rope or adding a connection to it? Thanks.


In a lock on stand with climbing sticks, which is 95% of my set ups, here is my set up. I have a life line that runs straight up the center of my climbing sticks and ends about 6' or so above my platform elevation. The stand platform is to the side of the sticks, as all of my sticks extend 3' or so above my bottom platform. So at the base of the tree, my Dynaclip lanyard (which is attached to my harness) is clipped to the prusik on the life line using a carabiner . I climb the sticks sliding that prusik set up and transfer into the stand. I am never not unclipped during the assent/decent and the transfer to or from the stand ... arguably the most dangerous part of tree stand hunting. Once in the stand and still clipped to the static life line, I take out my 8' long safety rope with prusik and position it on the tree in an ideal location. I then in one quick move unclip from the static line prusik and into the safety rope prusik. So technically there is about a 1 second window there that I am not tied off. Now you can ask why wouldn't I just stay clipped to the static line ... in some of my sets I could. There are other tree sets though for various reasons, it would be less than ideal and would require a much longer lanyard to stay clipped to the static line. Long lanyard = longer fall before stopping. Also, I video all of my hunts meaning a camera arm, back pack, and other gear. So I have a lot going on in the tree when I hunt. By using an independent safety line, it allows me to get everything set up exactly as I need to for my set up in that tree.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Thanks for the reply, good luck.


----------



## flounderv2 (Nov 9, 2009)

Here ya go. Was hunting this past weekend and after climbing down on Fri, I though to myself, I I forget to connect the safety strap from the bottom half of my climber tree stand to the top. Well the next morning, I was climbing and sure enough it slips off my boot and slides 10 ft down the tree. Always fun being stuck 25ft up with just the top half, dangling there realizing its is going to get even more interesting before it's over. I wear a rock harness with a choke around the tree so I just hung down from the top half and just let go and dropped about 2 ft until the harness caught me. At that point I was low enough I could hook my boots on the bottom and pull it up to stand on and work my way back up the tree. Oh, and I use static rope and I didnt break my back, rip my aorta, etc etc. The drop was pretty comfortable actually.


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

JPW77 said:


> Tony219er or anyone else that has made linesman belt loops from prusic cord, approximately how long does the cord need to be to start with?


Anybody?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

I think I remember what that looked like. It will take about 14"-15" of 7-8mm cord to make the fisherman's knots. If girth hitched to a belt, you might need 32"-34"" or so of rope to start with. If you use 9-10mm of cord then the fisherman knots would occupy a bit more rope.

**************************

I just found the picture - it looks like the loop terminates with a simple overhand knot (doesn't look like a figure 8). I wouldn't terminate the ends that way for my use but since I don't want anyone to get their panties in a wad by them thinking they're being dragged thru the mud - I'll just say good luck.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

flounderv2 said:


> Here ya go. Was hunting this past weekend and after climbing down on Fri, I though to myself, I I forget to connect the safety strap from the bottom half of my climber tree stand to the top. Well the next morning, I was climbing and sure enough it slips off my boot and slides 10 ft down the tree. Always fun being stuck 25ft up with just the top half, dangling there realizing its is going to get even more interesting before it's over. I wear a rock harness with a choke around the tree so I just hung down from the top half and just let go and dropped about 2 ft until the harness caught me. At that point I was low enough I could hook my boots on the bottom and pull it up to stand on and work my way back up the tree. Oh, and I use static rope and I didnt break my back, rip my aorta, etc etc. The drop was pretty comfortable actually.


Have ya looked at the www.stabilizerstraps.com ? In addition to making the ultimate in climbing stand stability, and easier quieter packing, they also keep ya from losing the bottom half of the platform.


----------



## JPW77 (Jan 26, 2004)

tpcollins said:


> I think I remember what that looked like. It will take about 14"-15" of 7-8mm cord to make the fisherman's knots. If girth hitched to a belt, you might need 32"-34"" or so of rope to start with. If you use 9-10mm of cord then the fisherman knots would occupy a bit more rope.
> 
> **************************
> 
> I just found the picture - it looks like the loop terminates with a simple overhand knot (doesn't look like a figure 8). I wouldn't terminate the ends that way for my use but since I don't want anyone to get their panties in a wad by them thinking they're being dragged thru the mud - I'll just say good luck.


Thanks man. I will do fisherman's knots so I'll try your suggested length.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Putt4Doe said:


> I've read the whole thread and now I'm super confused!!!
> 
> I ordered the Black Diamond Vario speed harness.
> 
> ...


Finally got it for ya and TP. First shows hookup while siffing in the climber.






Second, hookup while climbing.


----------



## adr1601 (Oct 15, 2012)

I'm officially a convert.


----------



## cds913 (Aug 27, 2012)

thirdhandman said:


> BrokenLimbs: I know what you mean there. That is why in past I have just designed my own. I just got off the phone with Goose Kearse the president of Misty Mountain. He was the one that made the ones for 20' up.
> I ask about making his Gym Dandy with sewn in D loops on the sides for a linemans belt. He has a huge military contract and has no time to do it. Oh Well! Someone will do it eventually. Maybe SOP.


 I brought a length of Mil. Spec webbing and my BD RC saddle in to a saddlemaker. I put loops on each side of the webbing and he sewed it across the back. I put a small piece of plastic tuping in the loops to keep them open a bit more. That makes it easier to clip the 'biner.

BTW,I've gotten rid of all the screw gate 'biners in favor of twist gate 'biners. I found I had a tendency to occasionally "just for a second",get lazy and not screw the gate secure.


----------



## larasea (Jan 7, 2014)

This morning was my first hunt in A Black Diamond Vario harness. What a treat. Really nice climbing with my Summit Viper, safety rope attached to the front ,and not over my shoulder slapping me in the face. Got to use my hood on my jacket in 18 degree weather without interference from SOP tether. So much more comfortable. I will not be going back to my SOP harness. Thanks Jim (Thirdhandman).

Also, used SS Footrest from Third Hand Archery for the first time this morning. Jim you were right again on your recommendation. Love the footrest.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

larasea said:


> This morning was my first hunt in A Black Diamond Vario harness. What a treat. Really nice climbing with my Summit Viper, safety rope attached to the front ,and not over my shoulder slapping me in the face. Got to use my hood on my jacket in 18 degree weather without interference from SOP tether. So much more comfortable. I will not be going back to my SOP harness. Thanks Jim (Thirdhandman).
> 
> Also, used SS Footrest from Third Hand Archery for the first time this morning. Jim you were right again on your recommendation. Love the footrest.


Thanks: Nice to hear we have another happy camper.:smile:


----------



## flounderv2 (Nov 9, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> Have ya looked at the www.stabilizerstraps.com ? In addition to making the ultimate in climbing stand stability, and easier quieter packing, they also keep ya from losing the bottom half of the platform.


I use paracord to keep them tied together. Never really had a problem with stability (Tree walker stand). I've been using your bow holder for a few years now and love it; sans a few small things that will get addressed with a grinder this weekend. I've also been considering your bow sling / tree belt combo.


----------



## Tony219er (Aug 14, 2011)

JPW77 said:


> Tony219er or anyone else that has made linesman belt loops from prusic cord, approximately how long does the cord need to be to start with?


Sorry for the delayed reply. I want to say I started with 16" pieces of rope but I'm not positive on that. I'd say if you start with a 20"-24" piece you can always trim excess off if necessary....can't add any lol.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

flounderv2 said:


> I use paracord to keep them tied together. Never really had a problem with stability (Tree walker stand). I've been using your bow holder for a few years now and love it; sans a few small things that will get addressed with a grinder this weekend. I've also been considering your bow sling / tree belt combo.


Flounderv2: I will agree that most stands do not grab a tree like a treewalker. That being said, the stabilizer straps would make it hold twice as tight. One could actually lean against the side to take a shot if need be. It is that solid.


----------



## GloryDaysDesign (Sep 1, 2006)

Holy Smokes, 25 pages of posts....
Can someone send me to a link for instructions on setting up and wearing a RC harness? Nothing is straight forward to me. Preferably one of the brands you guys are talking about? Or how about this: Send me some links what I need to buy. I swear I am not lazy, but I am sick of having harness straps over my shoulders, and then bib overall straps over my shoulders, and then a book bag or stand straps OVER MY SHOULDERS haha. My shoulders have strap marks on them for months.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

GDD: It can be as simple or complicated as you want. This is just one of many that will work fine. I use the Black Diamond Vario Speed harness. Pretty much one size fits all. One of the least expensive that Black diamond makes. No gear loops, no extra padding to sit on. I attach it to the tree while on stand and using climber with a girth hitch rope and prusik with carabiner that I used with my HSS. 
For ladders and lock on's I use a 30' rope attached above the stand and at the base of the tree. Tie a prusik to the lifeline, a tether to the prusik attach the tether to the harness.
Hope this helps.


----------



## MGB (Dec 21, 2008)

I've been giving my climbing harness a re-trial this hunting season, as compared with my Muddy Safeguard Harness. Here's my observations. Your experience may differ. 
Climbing Harness (Petzl Calidris)
Pros: light wgt, comfortable to hang in, allows easy layering on the top without having to worry about getting caught up in the harness
Cons: It is possible to get twisted around so that you cannot rotate enough to get a clean shot, I'm learning to reduce this.
Muddy Safeguard
Pros: Light weight, easy to put on, you can spin around all you want in the stand without getting bound up due tot the back of the neck attachment
Cons: Minimally heavier, some constrictions of the shoulders and upper body has the potential to mess up you shooting form.

So, my final analysis. Both work just fine, once you get used to the quirks of each. Definitely, a nice padded harness like the Calidris is better for hanging out while setting up tree stands. For hunting, the Muddy Safeguard and the Petzl are equal, but not exactly the same.

P.S. I've taken some gentle falls in each harness, and I have to say there is no obvious difference.


----------



## GloryDaysDesign (Sep 1, 2006)

I guess my question is, Are these things hard to put on? Are there any vids explaining how to attach to tree? I guess I would be bringing in an extra strap that would go from front of harness to prusik on rope around tree? Sry for newbie questions and hijacking thread.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

MGB said:


> I've been giving my climbing harness a re-trial this hunting season, as compared with my Muddy Safeguard Harness. Here's my observations. Your experience may differ.
> Climbing Harness (Petzl Calidris)
> Pros: light wgt, comfortable to hang in, allows easy layering on the top without having to worry about getting caught up in the harness
> Cons: It is possible to get twisted around so that you cannot rotate enough to get a clean shot, I'm learning to reduce this.
> ...


Mgb: If you can't feel the difference taking a fall or just hanging, You aren't doing something right. 1/3 of the weight should be on your waist and none in your crotch.


----------



## bucco921 (Jan 2, 2012)

MGB said:


> I've been giving my climbing harness a re-trial this hunting season, as compared with my Muddy Safeguard Harness. Here's my observations. Your experience may differ.
> Climbing Harness (Petzl Calidris)
> Pros: light wgt, comfortable to hang in, allows easy layering on the top without having to worry about getting caught up in the harness
> Cons: It is possible to get twisted around so that you cannot rotate enough to get a clean shot, I'm learning to reduce this.
> ...


I'm confused on the getting bound up part, my biggest complaint on the behind the neck tether harness' was the fact that the stupid tether was always in the way. Shots to my right side were nearly impossible. I've only used a HSS and a cheapie that came with a stand, is the Muddy tether different?


----------



## GloryDaysDesign (Sep 1, 2006)

I use the Muddy Linesman Rope as my strap around the tree...


----------



## Nubster (Oct 22, 2013)

Other than the harness, some rope, and maybe a couple 'biners....is there any other equipment needed or recommended when using a RC harness setup? I'm thinking about asking for one for Christmas.


----------



## GloryDaysDesign (Sep 1, 2006)

Yeah, I want to know what is used from the Rock Climbing Harness to attach to the treestrap. Also, I also want to use this for hanging stands, so I will need it linesman rope compatible, so I guess I need the loops on the sides of the harness? I believe there are awesome rock climbing tools to easily adjust the linesman rope with one hand while hanging stands. I am unfortunately new to this new avenue of harness capabilities. Looks like I need to find a rock climbing store asap! 

This system will eliminate excess shoulder straps thankfully.


----------



## ezmorningrebel (Dec 27, 2012)

Nubster said:


> Other than the harness and maybe a couple 'biners....is there any other equipment needed or recommended when using a RC harness setup? I'm thinking about asking for one for Christmas.


you need something to wrap around the tree and a tether between it and your harness.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

I've probably posted this before but my setup is:

Petzl Aspir harness (I like the wide padded waist sleeve)
Beal 30" Dynaclip
Carabiner
8mm prusik cord
11.4mm Bluewater Assaultline with rope thimble

All my stands have either 3/8" wire cable or 3/8" log chain around the top of the tree. Then I have a 1/2" screw link hooked around that and these will stay up all year. The individual lifelines attach to the 1/2" screw link (wanted to minimize the squirrels gnawing on my lifeline) and will be taken down at the end of the season. I originally thought of using a Ropeman 1 (blue thingy) as a secondary fall restraint but I'm confident with the 8mm prusik cord.

There may be better options available but since my butt is on the line, this what I'm going to use. :smile:


----------



## GloryDaysDesign (Sep 1, 2006)

Look like a good system tpcollins...

Can you explain to me what a "11.4mm Bluewater Assaultline with rope thimble" or send me a link? I am trying to kill two birds with one stone and get a harness for both sitting in the treestand, and setting up treestands. My issue is that my current setup is a Muddy Harness with a linesman rope. I need two hands to adjust the prusik knot on this system when needing to tighten/loosen the rope while hanging my steps and stand... Would be nice to get a one hand easy adjustment... Does your system achieve this?


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

GloryDaysDesign said:


> Yeah, I want to know what is used from the Rock Climbing Harness to attach to the treestrap. Also, I also want to use this for hanging stands, so I will need it linesman rope compatible, so I guess I need the loops on the sides of the harness? I believe there are awesome rock climbing tools to easily adjust the linesman rope with one hand while hanging stands. I am unfortunately new to this new avenue of harness capabilities. Looks like I need to find a rock climbing store asap!
> 
> This system will eliminate excess shoulder straps thankfully.


Be careful many "loops on the side" are not weight bearing, they are to hold things like extra carabiners only. Lots of info in this thread on using a rc harness or adapting them for use with a lines mans belt, please read or search the thread for your own safety. I use a Beal dynaclip to hook up the rc harness to the prusik loop using a larch foot at the harness and a heavy duty locking carabiner at the prusik loop. Others hook up direct with a heavy duty lock on carabiner.


----------



## hedp (Dec 20, 2011)

GloryDaysDesign said:


> Yeah, I want to know what is used from the Rock Climbing Harness to attach to the treestrap. Also, I also want to use this for hanging stands, so I will need it linesman rope compatible, so I guess I need the loops on the sides of the harness? I believe there are awesome rock climbing tools to easily adjust the linesman rope with one hand while hanging stands. I am unfortunately new to this new avenue of harness capabilities. Looks like I need to find a rock climbing store asap!
> 
> This system will eliminate excess shoulder straps thankfully.




I hunt from a ladder stand. What I do now is leave my tree strap in the tree if I'm going to be hunting for a little while, otherwise I bring it in and out with me. I always put my RC harness on at home with the runner/sling attached with the carabiner, I just put the carabiner in my pocket. So, I climb up my ladder stand, take the carabiner and hook it up to the tree strap via the runner/sling (orange in the pic). That's it.


www.backcountry.com has great stuff and chat help as does REI.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

GloryDaysDesign said:


> Look like a good system tpcollins...
> 
> Can you explain to me what a "11.4mm Bluewater Assaultline with rope thimble" or send me a link? I am trying to kill two birds with one stone and get a harness for both sitting in the treestand, and setting up treestands. My issue is that my current setup is a Muddy Harness with a linesman rope. I need two hands to adjust the prusik knot on this system when needing to tighten/loosen the rope while hanging my steps and stand... Would be nice to get a one hand easy adjustment... Does your system achieve this?



http://www.rei.com/product/472262/bluewater-assaultline-static-rope-716-x-150

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=879

I got the 11.4mm rope from an eBay seller with 25' of prusik cord a bit cheaper. The thimbles were set inside the eye of the figure 8 knot to increase the diameter the rope goes over the 1/2" link.


----------



## alukban (May 24, 2013)

tpcollins said:


> I've probably posted this before but my setup is:
> 
> Petzl Aspir harness (I like the wide padded waist sleeve)
> Beal 30" Dynaclip
> ...


The more I read about these setups and understand it with my own experience, the more I realize that what *tpcollins* shows in the pic of his setup is really exellent. There are some subtle things which may not jump out at you and one's own setup may be different, but it is very well thought out.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Thanks alukban, here is another pic of one of my setups. I posted this on the arborist forum where I got a lot of help this year and they pointed out that I had the saddle clamp on wrong for the one end - the "dead horse". The U-bolt should go around the tag end (dead horse) and the saddle part of the clamp goes on the main part. Didn't make much sense to me but I changed it the next time I was in that stand. :mg:

The tree step is just a hand grip that just happens to be in the picture, it doesn't hold anything for the lifeline.


----------



## hedp (Dec 20, 2011)

tpcollins said:


> Thanks alukban, here is another pic of one of my setups. I posted this on the arborist forum where I got a lot of help this year and they pointed out that I had the saddle clamp on wrong for the one end - the "dead horse". *The U-bolt should go around the tag end (dead horse) and the saddle part of the clamp goes on the main part*. Didn't make much sense to me but I changed it the next time I was in that stand. :mg:
> 
> The tree step is just a hand grip that just happens to be in the picture, it doesn't hold anything for the lifeline.





Do you have a better picture of this?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

hedp said:


> Do you have a better picture of this?


Here's a couple other stands, not sure what you're really looking for.


----------



## 1goodarrow (Jan 26, 2010)

I tried it for about 6 sits and couldnt get used to it. I do use my climbing harness when hanging stands, I will try it hunting again some day.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

TP: Looks like you could hang a volkswagen from that set up without any worries.


----------



## cds913 (Aug 27, 2012)

Loops on the side not load bearing...

They are not. I am used to an arborists saddle and "needed" those loops for a lanyard to hand sticks and stand...

I took a length of mil. spec. webbing that I got from REI in the climbing dept and had a saddlemaker box xtitch it in several places across the "back" of the RC saddle. I have loops tied at the hips....I inserted a bit of plastic tubing in the webbing in the loops to keep them more open. That works but not as well as I'd like.

I personally trust that webbing and those loops for my personal RC harness that I use for hunting.

Even though I have logged many hundreds if not thousands of hours "professionally" climbing I still took my time researching RC harnesses for hunting. I read everything I could - even the angry and accusatory posts of folks who believe RC harnesses (for hunting) should not even be discussed never mind recommended. I looked into rock climbing basics for how-to's and what to look for when wearing a rc harness.

I would not consider having one single person tell me how to wear it (via the internet) or one single person recommend it or...I relied on MANY different sources.

BTW,the saddlemaker who stitched the webbing also does shoe repair and other similar stuff. It's the big sewing machines and the skill to use them that I lacked. I also had confidence in HIS assurance that the stitching he used was strong as it gets...after discussing it with him longer than he'd probably have rathered.

I believe that the hours and hours and hours I spent online researching rc harnesses (during the off season) were worth it....I also believe every minute I spend in AT's 'Mutantville' are a complete waste of time. I lose IQ points at every (infrequent) visit.. A&E not so much but still not very productive. If you go there you can spend that time researching rc harnesses instead....IF you have an interest.


----------



## law651 (Jul 7, 2005)

Just got my Diamond viario RC Harness. I hated my 4pt harness so much I did not wear them.. Doesnt matter how much the 4 pt works on a fall if you dont wear it. I like the RC harness enough that Im wearing it Hunting. Im even attatch from the ground up in my climber. So if you hate your 4pt as much as me give a RC harness a chance..


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

*So after trying a rock climbing harness, how many are going back to a full body harness.*


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

I'll be sticking with my Misty Mountain Cadillac Tactical rock climbing harness!


----------



## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

I tried out my vario speed harness today and also hung from the tree a bit. My initial impression is it is a pain in the butt to put on compared to traditional harness. Would be nice to have leg straps with quick release. One could probably put it on at truck and walk in but really not that comfortable as you can feel it. Hanging from a tree still hurts like hell in the crotch and legs.

I do like that it is more compact and like the fact you will face the tree if you fall. I will try it out and see how I like it.


----------



## Geeman (Nov 28, 2011)

Never going back to a traditional harness, will keep using the RC Harness


----------



## John316 (Aug 23, 2003)

Just got my rc set-up and have used it once...early results are positive. Right now I'd say it's going to replace the muddy harness.


----------



## SilentElk (Oct 6, 2004)

cds913 said:


> Loops on the side not load bearing...
> 
> They are not. I am used to an arborists saddle and "needed" those loops for a lanyard to hand sticks and stand...


An Arborist saddle is superior to a rock climbing harness in a few ways. The primary one is the 'saddle'. It will support your butt without restricting blood flow in the legs if you are hanging. Also, the loops on the side are exactly what is need to for lineman style climbing and leaning. On the down side, they are often more 'beefy' than needed for a fall system that isn't likely to be used or used for any extended time. Also a fair amount more costly than a basic climbing harness. I am a former licensed Arborist. Never do that for work again but it was a good 7 or 8 years and worked ok at the time.


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Live4Rut or anyone else who has tried but didn't like the RC…get the Misty Mountain - Cadillac Tactical and forget everything else out there. It has side gear loops rated at 1,800lbs (providing adequate weight capacity while using a lineman's belt and climbing sticks) and a rear haul loop rated at 2,200lbs (for rear tether hookup while in the stand).

It is relatively expensive ($189) but this is a classic case of, you get what you pay for. 
Made in the USA! [emoji631]


----------



## f7 666 (Nov 26, 2009)

I hunted with one last night for the first time and absolutely loved it. I bought a black diamond couloir and i can't believe how light and compact the thing is, 

My only complaint is on how tough the waist buckle is to get the strap through and adjusted properly. 
But I'll deal with it because of the simplicity it offers.

I wear a 4 pt harnes every day at work but I've never worn one while hunting in my life and I kept seeing all these threads on these rc harnesses and thought id give them a try and sure glad I did. So I promised my wife this year it's a harness... to many horror stories


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Sorry, I need to make this correction to the post above. "It has side gear loops rated at 1,800lbs (providing adequate weight capacity while using an arborist lanyard and climbing sticks)..."


----------



## bowjoe1800 (Sep 8, 2008)

thirdhandman said:


> *so after trying a rock climbing harness, how many are going back to a full body harness.*


not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

f7 666 said:


> I hunted with one last night for the first time and absolutely loved it. I bought a black diamond couloir and i can't believe how light and compact the thing is,
> 
> My only complaint is on how tough the waist buckle is to get the strap through and adjusted properly.
> But I'll deal with it because of the simplicity it offers.
> ...


My neighbor's funeral was today. Rock climbing without a harness. Fell 200'. Left a wife and two kids from a previous marriage and two adopted children. The adopted children lost their natural parents 5 years ago. Would love to grab him by the ears and ask what the hell he was thinking.


----------



## crankn101 (Jan 26, 2007)

Poor kids


----------



## hedp (Dec 20, 2011)

thirdhandman said:


> My neighbor's funeral was today. Rock climbing without a harness. Fell 200'. Left a wife and two kids from a previous marriage and two adopted children. The adopted children lost their natural parents 5 years ago. Would love to grab him by the ears and ask what the hell he was thinking.







Was he an experienced free climber or was he fooling around?


----------



## NYS Archer (Nov 9, 2012)

thirdhandman said:


> My neighbor's funeral was today. Rock climbing without a harness. Fell 200'. Left a wife and two kids from a previous marriage and two adopted children. The adopted children lost their natural parents 5 years ago. Would love to grab him by the ears and ask what the hell he was thinking.


I mean come on man be a little more responsible.
Prayers for his kids, too bad their father didn't have very good judgement.


----------



## ArmedBarrister (Oct 4, 2011)

Just a guess....http://www.wcpo.com/news/region-nor...-dies-after-fall-while-climbing-colorado-peak


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

NYS Archer said:


> I mean come on man be a little more responsible.
> Prayers for his kids, too bad their father didn't have very good judgement.


NYS: He lived directly across the street until 3 years ago. Right after he got married and adopted the two little girls he moved. He lived on the edge doing everything. We had many discussions about his responsibility with the girls. He thought he was bullet proof and it wasn't going to happen to him. Free climbing at over 12,000 feet? Guess ya had to know him to understand.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

hedp said:


> Was he an experienced free climber or was he fooling around?


He has been climbing for a while and had experience, but he also had 5 major responsibilities waiting for him at home. Hope some here can learn from his mistakes.


----------



## dtspoke (May 8, 2009)

Due to this thread a year ago I went to the following:

1. Petzl Pandion
2. 75cm Beal Dynaclip
3. HSS Lifeline
4. Tree Spider tree strap
5. Mad Rock Ultra-Tech carabiner

It's a fantastic setup and I got to test it when I took a spill off my stand last January. Flawless and easy to arrest and recover.

Had a Summit SOP that I thought was great, but I like this system much better, and it worked. I'm sure the SOP would have worked just as well, but the current rig is light, easy to manage, and really comfortable on stand.


----------



## DEC (Dec 10, 2004)

I shot a quick video before I climbed down the other morning from hunting. 

*Disclaimer!!!! *This is *NOT* the only way to do this and be safe. Everyone has an opinion on what is best and what will work. I have fallen and been saved by a hunting harness. I have now been playing with a rock climbing set up for the past 11 months and am 1000% confident in the set up for my needs. I have hung from the set up (at low heights) and am completely confident that if (i.e. when) I fall again that I will survive to tell the tale.

Climb and hunt from elevated stands at your own risk. Choose your equipment carefully and be confident in your setups. Be safe out there!


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

Can someone give me a list of what all I need for a proper setup? 

Thanks


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

RC harness, locking caribeaner, safety rope with prusick knot.

Its a good idea to add a beal/teather between the RC & the safety rope's prusick knot if you use a ladder stand or hang-on.
And you still need a linemans option for hanging the sticks & stand if you use hang-ons.


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

Burtle said:


> Can someone give me a list of what all I need for a proper setup?
> 
> Thanks


I use hang on stands 


thanks


----------



## Viper69 (Feb 4, 2003)

cbowie said:


> Live4Rut or anyone else who has tried but didn't like the RC…get the Misty Mountain - Cadillac Tactical and forget everything else out there. It has side gear loops rated at 1,800lbs (providing adequate weight capacity while using a lineman's belt and climbing sticks) and a rear haul loop rated at 2,200lbs (for rear tether hookup while in the stand).
> 
> It is relatively expensive ($189) but this is a classic case of, you get what you pay for.
> Made in the USA!
> ...


That's a nice looking set up! I'm very happy with my 20 feet up system but I may have to look at one of these.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

cbowie said:


> Live4Rut or anyone else who has tried but didn't like the RC…get the Misty Mountain - Cadillac Tactical and forget everything else out there. It has side gear loops rated at 1,800lbs (providing adequate weight capacity while using a lineman's belt and climbing sticks) and a rear haul loop rated at 2,200lbs (for rear tether hookup while in the stand).
> 
> It is relatively expensive ($189) but this is a classic case of, you get what you pay for.
> Made in the USA!
> ...




I'm thinking about buying this one. I've been doing a lot of research on it. Seems like it's the way to go.

Found them on ebay from 130-178.00

Anyone have advice on what to use for a linemans belt?
What about for a safety line?


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Burtle said:


> I'm thinking about buying this one. I've been doing a lot of research on it. Seems like it's the way to go.
> 
> Found them on ebay from 130-178.00
> 
> ...


The gear loops on this specific harness are rated to 8kN so you can clip directly into them for a lineman's harness. Thats an advantage of THIS harness. Don't try that with other harnesses & gear loops.


----------



## jacobh (Jun 7, 2009)

So they hook to the front how do u tie off to the tree in stand? Can someone post some pics please? Im interested but can't visualize using one. Thanks


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

jacobh said:


> So they hook to the front how do u tie off to the tree in stand? Can someone post some pics please? Im interested but can't visualize using one. Thanks


Attach the safety rope at head height. The rope runs around your side & under your arm. Hard to believe, but it does not get in the way of shooting.


----------



## jacobh (Jun 7, 2009)

Ok cool Thanks


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Burtle said:


> I'm thinking about buying this one. I've been doing a lot of research on it. Seems like it's the way to go.
> 
> Found them on ebay from 130-178.00
> 
> ...


Well...I called it a "lineman's belt" but I meant a lanyard. I would say any arborist supply company would sell them. I purchased my lanyard online from Sherilltree. Just go to their website and type "lanyard" in the search bar. I purchased the Tritech 11mm but you probably can't go wrong with any of them. If you don't like the color choices, just get some Poly Dye and dye the rope dark brown. Be sure to get 2 autolocking carabiners and a Wild Country Ropeman Ascender. IMO, I think it's the best combination of lightweight and high quality gear that can be bundled together. 
I hope this helps!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

I know the Ropeman MK2 is not a good choice because the tiny teeth fray the rope.
But there are apparently 2 other ones.... The Ropeman 1 and something called Ropeman MK1.
(Anyone know if these are identical? Looks like there is a difference in the teeth. MK1 looks staggered with a slightly smaller caribiner cutout?)

Both were on back-order a few years ago, so I went with a Kong Duck Rope Clamp/Ascender.
Works, but you have to secure the two spring loaded halves together. ~ Because if they separate, it's all over/you go down!!!!
(For this reason, I wouldn't recommend the Kong.)


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Yes, the Ropeman MK1 is what I have and what I would suggest getting. This ascender won't give you any problems. It's currently available on Amazon prime for under $30.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Only difference on the Original Ropeman 1 and the MK1 is the updated forged side plates.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

jacobh said:


> So they hook to the front how do u tie off to the tree in stand? Can someone post some pics please? Im interested but can't visualize using one. Thanks


Here is how I have mine setup. I have mine attached to a Treestand Wingman and the Wingman attached to the tree. The small carabiner on the end of the Wingman strap is for pulling up my Bow.


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Here's my setup with the Misty Mountain Cadillac Tactical Harness.









Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Sorry cbowie, but I don't think that the gear loops are rated to hold one's body weight in the event of a fall. They may hold while hanging a stand but doubt they would hold if a step breaks or a slip and drop 2 foot.


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

thirdhandman said:


> Sorry cbowie, but I don't think that the gear loops are rated to hold one's body weight in the event of a fall. They may hold while hanging a stand but doubt they would hold if a step breaks or a slip and drop 2 foot.


They're rated at 1,800 lbs. That's well more than any over the counter pre-packaged safety line marketed for hunting. Most harness aren't built like the Misty Mountain Cadillac Tactical.









Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

jacobh said:


> So they hook to the front how do u tie off to the tree in stand? Can someone post some pics please? Im interested but can't visualize using one. Thanks


Here's a pic of my setup when I had the 75cm Dynaclip, because of the distance to the tie of points, it was easier to run it up over my shoulder. Then I bought the 10" shorter 50cm Dynaclip and that allowed me to run it under my arm - which I prefer. Either one works great as long as you minimize the slack when sitting on the seat. I've switched over from a closed loop on my friction cord to split tails to double against rope breakage.


----------



## ohiobucks (Dec 27, 2004)

Other than Misty Mountain's website direct, where would one buy the Cadillac Tactical harness?


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Not sure other than someone selling 1 on ebay. Misty Mountain actually builds your harness when you place the order...or they did mine, anyway.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Just in case anyone has missed it...the Misty Mountain Cadillac Tactical has a rear loop rated at 2,200 lbs. I know it doesn't bother most to loop your tree tether to the front of your rock climbing harness but hooking in the back is still so much more natural. I'm not bashing anyone's system because I've tried them both. IMO, this just feels better to me . That being said, I would never go back to a full shoulder harness over a Rock climbing harness, regardless if I had to hook up to the front or back. Rock climbing harnesses are the solution for mobile, lock on hunting applications. Just be sure to buy a high quality harness and get familiar with it and it's capabilities.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

cbowie said:


> Just in case anyone has missed it...the Misty Mountain Cadillac Tactical has a rear loop rated at 2,200 lbs. I know it doesn't bother most to loop your tree tether to the front of your rock climbing harness but hooking in the back is still so much more natural. I'm not bashing anyone's system because I've tried them both. IMO, this just feels better to me . That being said, I wouldn't never go back to a full shoulder harness over a Rock climbing harness, regardless if I had to hook up to the front or back. Rock climbing harnesses are the solution for mobile, lock on hunting applications. Just be sure to buy a high quality harness and get familiar with it and it's capabilities.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I remember seeing a paper about suspension trauma...the positive effects of the RC harness were lost when hooking up in the rear. ***You can still get suspension trauma when connecting to the rear loop!*** Something to reconsider.


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

ohiobucks said:


> Other than Misty Mountain's website direct, where would one buy the Cadillac Tactical harness?


Ebay/Amazon

Make sure you read the fine print. I was going to buy on Ebay but changed my mind. I'm going to buy directly from the company. You can save 20-35.00 by buying on Ebay/Amazon but I don't want to take any chances. I'll buy from the company so I know it's good to go.


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

snapcrackpop said:


> I remember seeing a paper about suspension trauma...the positive effects of the RC harness were lost when hooking up in the rear. ***You can still get suspension trauma when connecting to the rear!*** Something to reconsider.


Yeah, good point. I read something about it too. I think most folks just need to use good common sense. Personally, I know myself well enough that I can get maneuvered back into a safe position. I'm no spider monkey but unless I'm unconscious from some unexpected head trauma...I'm confident in my own ability to get readjusted. [emoji6] 

Everyone just needs to understand the risk, think everything through and make decisions based on their own physical abilities. 

Good luck!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## tbrake (Feb 13, 2014)

Do you have to do anything special to attach to a lifeline? Once you get in the stand do you anchor off with a kind mans belt or can you stay attached to the lifeline?I'm sure someone has posted this, but iz could not find it. Thank you


----------



## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

tbrake said:


> Do you have to do anything special to attach to a lifeline? Once you get in the stand do you anchor off with a kind mans belt or can you stay attached to the lifeline?I'm sure someone has posted this, but iz could not find it. Thank you


 The setup on post #659 above works like this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knoEZ_uDeA0


----------



## Boedy (Jul 12, 2016)

I just hung my first tree stand yesterday, Took much longer and was more difficult than I thought it would be. The biggest issue was the harness and strap that came with the stand. I spent many years building cell phone towers and am comfortable working very high like over 600'. I have also had many hours of climbing safety classes not to mention OSHA 30 classes. Anyway I think of a R/C as a positioning tool rather than true fall arrest device. I would never, knowing what I know about what happens to your body and the forces involved from falling even a short distance ever put my life in the hands of a R/C alone. There is a reason that 4 point harness is mandatory in my line of work and after climbing around my stand today I see the similarities. R/C is great for positioning but won't protect you in case of a fall the way you might think especially, if hooked low in center of back.


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

RC harness is connected center front and cinched properly is above your hips.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Boedy said:


> I just hung my first tree stand yesterday, Took much longer and was more difficult than I thought it would be. The biggest issue was the harness and strap that came with the stand. I spent many years building cell phone towers and am comfortable working very high like over 600'. I have also had many hours of climbing safety classes not to mention OSHA 30 classes. Anyway I think of a R/C as a positioning tool rather than true fall arrest device. I would never, knowing what I know about what happens to your body and the forces involved from falling even a short distance ever put my life in the hands of a R/C alone. There is a reason that 4 point harness is mandatory in my line of work and after climbing around my stand today I see the similarities. R/C is great for positioning but won't protect you in case of a fall the way you might think especially, if hooked low in center of back.


This has been covered many times before. BS. Who falls more than a rock climber?
And yes, connecting "in the back", is a terrible idea. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Doebuster (Mar 5, 2006)

Flatwoodshunter said:


> Here is how I have mine setup. I have mine attached to a Treestand Wingman and the Wingman attached to the tree. The small carabiner on the end of the Wingman strap is for pulling up my Bow.
> View attachment 4327265
> 
> View attachment 4327281


This is nice ! Have you tried out the wingman ? I'm pretty sure I'm going this way !


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

G


snapcrackpop said:


> This has been covered many times before. BS. Who falls more than a rock climber?
> And yes, connecting "in the back", is a terrible idea.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


The humor in all these threads... Us cell tower guys are trained over and over again on how to take a fall, how to rescue ourselves, and rescue others...

The guys who say we dont know what we are talking about, get their intel from internet forums and literally have 0 clue as to what they are talking about.

The person on here who pushes the rc harnesses the most, was a logistics manager for a trucking company, who admits to smoking 3 or more packs of cigs a day, and now sells archery accesories... Probably not the most athletic, nor tenured person when it comes to self rescue in the middle lf the woods when facing a hard impact after a fall... He does say he used to some rock climbing, but most rock climbers suck down 3 packs of marlboros a day, right?? I have 20yrs experience in an industry that requires harnesses every single day.


----------



## pman (Jan 16, 2009)

I spent 35 yrs rock climbing, using said harness with lots of falls taken in those years, from short 3- 6 footers to 30ft + whippers and have always landed upright and in control. I have also been in charge off for 12 years, until retirement from the mountain, and now am just a volunteer team member for the past 4 years of a gondola rescue team at a local ski hill and we use industrial grade full body harnesses with the fall protection attached in the back in between the upper middle of our shoulders... and they suck. Fortunately, the fall protection has built in etriers that pop out in case of a fall as we all work alone when on the cable... They are incredibly cumbersome compared to the RC harness. Without the built in quick release etriers they are also potentially lethal from the suspension trauma experienced while hanging from the full body harness. I will never, ever, use a full body harness while in a stand.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

I've heard of several guys USING a RC harness that had given up on using a regular harness. What's your answer to those people? 

Tell us, self appointed expert, what's so terrible about a 2' RC fall?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Pman - and how much training did you have, and how much working out did you have compared to the average hunter...

How often on your falls, did your line wrap you around what you were anchored too, while slapping your head into it unprotected, all the while, when you weren expecting it...


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

snapcrackpop said:


> I've heard of several guys USING a RC harness that had given up on using a regular harness. What's your answer to those people?
> 
> Tell us, self appointed expert, what's so terrible about a 2' RC fall?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Self appointed?? Ha... Ive made my living doing it, and I guess now being the program manager for one of the largest in the world means someone else appointed me.. But again, what do I know about it...


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

..... didn't answer my question. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## pman (Jan 16, 2009)

EJP1234, if you are referring to rock climbing "training", I started climbing with an experienced mentor when I was 20 yrs old. That, coupled with the School of Hard Knocks and a lot of Grace, I survived and thrived in the climbing world only to have to retire because of failing knees in my mid 50's... As far as getting wrapped up in the rope during a fall, it never happened.... I could see it possibly occurring if a fall were to occur inside a chimney crack or maybe off a steep slab... My head getting slapped? never happened... Like I said, Grace....
The average hunter would not know how to self rescue while hanging from fall protection attached high between his shoulders... Suspension Trauma will kill him. A fall in a RC harness alleviates that scenario.


----------



## Flatwoodshunter (Feb 3, 2013)

Doebuster said:


> This is nice ! Have you tried out the wingman ? I'm pretty sure I'm going this way !


I have not tried the Wingman but I do think it would be a good idea to try it from about 4 feet the first time.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

pman said:


> EJP1234, if you are referring to rock climbing "training", I started climbing with an experienced mentor when I was 20 yrs old. That, coupled with the School of Hard Knocks and a lot of Grace, I survived and thrived in the climbing world only to have to retire because of failing knees in my mid 50's... As far as getting wrapped up in the rope during a fall, it never happened.... I could see it possibly occurring if a fall were to occur inside a chimney crack or maybe off a steep slab... My head getting slapped? never happened... Like I said, Grace....
> The average hunter would not know how to self rescue while hanging from fall protection attached high between his shoulders... Suspension Trauma will kill him. A fall in a RC harness alleviates that scenario.


Its the way you take the fall... You fall entirely different. As well 4pts have the suspension trauma straps if they are worth anything. I will remain 100% in disagreement. 

So your extent of training is based on school of hard knocks, yet it was a profession?


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

snapcrackpop said:


> ..... didn't answer my question.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Read early in the post, i go into detail many pages ago.. I answered it well before you asked it, I even posted very detailed studies by several government agencies responsible for safety oversight from several countries... None of them think a RC harness is the way to go, none...


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

EJP1234 said:


> Read early in the post, i go into detail many pages ago.. I answered it well before you asked it, I even posted very detailed studies by several government agencies responsible for safety oversight from several countries... None of them think a RC harness is the way to go, none...


I remember seeing a study attached to one thread, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't this one.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

This has probably been said a dozen times before, but one should actually hang in a traditional 4 pt harness and a RC harness and see where the pressure is on your femoral artery (make sure someone is next to you if you get in trouble). I would think this would be eye opening especially if you try to drop just 6".

The harnesses used in construction may have a rear tether style but there is usually a co-worker nearby in case one gets into to trouble. Most hunters sit on stand alone so there's no available help if they need it.

I would think the reason the safety tether was put on the back was basically to minimize interference with shooting a bow. When routed properly, there's no issue with a RC harness either. Hanging from a rear tether will tip you slightly forward and increase pressure on the femoral artery, the front attachment for a RC would cause you to tip rearward slightly and decrease pressure on the femoral artery. 

Life is about choices - some are just better than others. Good luck.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

http://www.elevatedsafetysystems.com
This is the only study I recall, it talks about the BENEFITS of the front-attachment over the 4pt for suspension trauma.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## pman (Jan 16, 2009)

I was a professional guide for a local guide service for 5 yrs. Quit that when I realized I was prostituting my love for being on the rock. Sir, you apparently know your systems well and that is key to your safety. Well done.


EJP1234 said:


> Its the way you take the fall... You fall entirely different. As well 4pts have the suspension trauma straps if they are worth anything. I will remain 100% in disagreement.
> 
> So your extent of training is based on school of hard knocks, yet it was a profession?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

EJP1234 said:


> The person on here who pushes the rc harnesses the most, was a logistics manager for a trucking company, who admits to smoking 3 or more packs of cigs a day, and now sells archery accesories... Probably not the most athletic, nor tenured person when it comes to self rescue in the middle lf the woods when facing a hard impact after a fall... He does say he used to some rock climbing, but most rock climbers suck down 3 packs of marlboros a day, right?? I have 20yrs experience in an industry that requires harnesses every single day.




I'll have to admit that was funny.




snapcrackpop said:


> I've heard of several guys USING a RC harness that had given up on using a regular harness. What's your answer to those people?
> 
> Tell us, self appointed expert, what's so terrible about a 2' RC fall?


I still have the Tree Spider which I thought was one of the best made, but after switching to an Aspir RC harness I'll never go back to the Spider - may use it only with a linemen's belt to hang steps and stands. And I don't think all of those that do switch to a RC harness actually do it the correctly. Some of the pics I've seen of their setups might suggest they'd be better off hunting from the ground.

When RC climbers fall they will have a dynamic top rope which would cushion the fall like a bungy jumper. I think even a 2' fall with mainly static attachments is going to be hard on the body - try it with a friend alongside sometime. Here is the amount of "slack" I have in my dynamic Beal Dynaclip lanyard when sitting on stand. Good luck.


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

I agree with TP, having gone through the trial and error process after switching to an RC. I to use a beal dyna clip with less than 4 inches of slack. If I were to have a fall I am not going very far. Some setups are better than others, the biggest mistakes being a lack of knowledge of what type type of knots to use and where. The key being that anyone who uses an RC and length of rope is still better off then going without any harness at all. Practice and learn not just how to setup a harness and learn why things are done in a certain way. Learn how to descend, which is the real downfall of a conventional 4pt harness if you should end up below your platform. Hang on or ladder wear whatever as there will be steps within reach. I have suspended myself, intentionally dropped 12 inches to check impact. They all work, RC is far more comfortable and maneuverable. As a US Naval Aircrewmen I have gone through hours and hours of parachute training to include static drops of 6-8ft. The reason I bring this up is that the key is to wear a harness correctly as I have seen the results of a harness not not worn properly and what it will do to the boys after an 8ft drop. Now an RC harness is constructed like the lower portion of a parachute harness, wonder why? Because of of shock is distributed and the the position your in for weight distribution afterwards. We don't want our Parachutists dead when they land from suspension trauma do we.


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

I just ordered a Vario. My plan is to use a 100cm static rope with carabiners at each end to clip to harness and tree strap. I also have the HSS tree rope with prussic for various set ups.

Does this sound ok?

Thanks


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Sounds reasonable to me. Though I only use 45cm Beal, not that it is better or anything, just what was available at the time. Also on your connection to harness with the Beal just loop the little end through the big end around the front loop of the harness vice using a biner.




Captain Cully said:


> I just ordered a Vario. My plan is to use a 100cm static rope with carabiners at each end to clip to harness and tree strap. I also have the HSS tree rope with prussic for various set ups.
> 
> Does this sound ok?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Captain Cully said:


> I just ordered a Vario. My plan is to use a 100cm static rope with carabiners at each end to clip to harness and tree strap. I also have the HSS tree rope with prussic for various set ups.
> 
> Does this sound ok?
> 
> Thanks


That's about a 40" piece of static lanyard with no shock absorption. I would anticipate a rather abrupt and violent stop when everything straightens out after a fall - I don't think you're going to like that feeling.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

tpcollins said:


> That's about a 40" piece of static lanyard with no shock absorption. I would anticipate a rather abrupt and violent stop when everything straightens out after a fall - I don't think you're going to like that feeling.


If it is adjusted properly, 20-30" is all he would "fall". That's not going to hurt.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

I read that wrong, thought you were using a dynamic connection not static. You need a dynamic connection like a Beal dynaclip between you and the tree.


----------



## pi9 (Jan 2, 2016)

So I will admit I do not have the paitence to read this whole thread but I have been looking into this subject a bit and cannot seem to find the answers I need.

I am 6' and with my gear on, probably 320-330lb so the normal 300lb hunting harnesses are not rated for me. I have a LW harness that is rated at 350 but want to join in the RC harness crowd since so many of you seem to love them.

Also I have a 13 year old daughter going out with me this year, I bought her a HSS harness but would like to get her a RC if possible, any recommendations for kids? 

My question is, does anyone know of one that will fit a big guy and is rated to handle my weight? 

Also is there any good resources on how to properly use one? I have seen many pictures where some of you have the rope aroudn the tree low, like almost waist hight, then others I have seen them have the rope up at head high and the tether over the shoulder and going down to tie in at the waist. With a hunting harness they always want your rope as high as possible, is this different? 
Thanks


----------



## Diesel79 (Oct 11, 2015)

I just ordered the black diamond vario as well. Also ordered a Petzl connect adjust to go from the harness to the treestrap. Dynamic rope with an adjustable system.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

My kids use the RC harness. 

Might check out Misty Mountain Cadillac Tactical, says it fits upto 45" waist. Not sure on the weight.

Always adjust the rope to little to no slack when changing positions.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

This is what I have:

https://m.petzl.com/en/Professional/Lanyards-and-energy-absorbers/JANE#.V6jdUVT3anM


----------



## sjj1856 (Sep 23, 2014)

pi9 said:


> So I will admit I do not have the paitence to read this whole thread but I have been looking into this subject a bit and cannot seem to find the answers I need.
> 
> I am 6' and with my gear on, probably 320-330lb so the normal 300lb hunting harnesses are not rated for me. I have a LW harness that is rated at 350 but want to join in the RC harness crowd since so many of you seem to love them.
> 
> ...


I use an ABC Guide harness and I was 290#s last season and 6' tall. It is fully adjustable and fit me just fine even over thick bibs in the late season.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

snapcrackpop said:


> If it is adjusted properly, 20-30" is all he would "fall". That's not going to hurt.


Well, you could suit up and then take a 20"-30" fall and get beck to us how mild it was. That ought to settle things.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

tpcollins said:


> Well, you could suit up and then take a 20"-30" fall and get beck to us how mild it was. That ought to settle things.


Well if you insist. ...
https://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg
2:50 is the bigger fall.
And yes, I stepped off, but the distance was closer to 40" than 30".

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Diesel79 (Oct 11, 2015)

Is the tree spider one if the better tree straps?


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

So if I used a shorter lanyard or placed my strap higher on the tree, that equipment set up would work correct?
I usually put a screw in step on the back side of the tree to prevent strap or rope from sliding down. I also use it as a hook for my pack.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Captain Cully said:


> So if I used a shorter lanyard or placed my strap higher on the tree, that equipment set up would work correct?
> I usually put a screw in step on the back side of the tree to prevent strap or rope from sliding down. I also use it as a hook for my pack.


You want as little slack as possible when sitting, no matter the set-up.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

Understood. Thanks!


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

snapcrackpop said:


> Well if you insist. ...
> https://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg
> 2:50 is the bigger fall.
> And yes, I stepped off, but the distance was closer to 40" than 30".


Well it looked like to me you grabbed the lanyard to break your fall, that might not happen if a fall catches you unaware all of a sudden. How about just jumping off the stand and let your full weight bottom out at the end of the 30" - 40" rope instead of holding onto it?

This is my slack in my Beal Dynaclip when seated.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Nit pick all you want, I did not hold the rope. My right hand was near the belt when I stepped off. 
I have now moved my rope up to head height, so less slack. 
Point being, I have tested the RC for falls. Have you?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

snapcrackpop said:


> Point being, I have tested the RC for falls. Have you?


YES I've stepped off like you did but my waist didn't even fall below the platform. My lifelines hang right over my climbing sticks (too old to use a climber) and secured at the bottom as well which allows for an easy self rescue. Falling to the opposite side is even shorter and I don't think I can get low enough for my butt to touch the platform.

As I've said in the past, I always thought the Tree Spider was the cat's meow as a 4 pt harness until I decided to just "drop" in it while suspended from a garage rafter - that was enough for me and switched to a RC harness. Everybody has to decide what they think is best for them - if you're confident with yours then you should be all set.


----------



## Fendrick (Jun 3, 2013)

pi9 said:


> So I will admit I do not have the paitence to read this whole thread but I have been looking into this subject a bit and cannot seem to find the answers I need.
> 
> I am 6' and with my gear on, probably 320-330lb so the normal 300lb hunting harnesses are not rated for me. I have a LW harness that is rated at 350 but want to join in the RC harness crowd since so many of you seem to love them.
> 
> ...


Check out Misty Mountain. They supply our military and if their isn't one you like, they will custom build one. I am 290 and the two I have work wonderfully. Had a slip with my climber last year and it worked as it should and I was able to comfortably hang while I got the climber back set up.


----------



## pi9 (Jan 2, 2016)

Fendrick said:


> Check out Misty Mountain. They supply our military and if their isn't one you like, they will custom build one. I am 290 and the two I have work wonderfully. Had a slip with my climber last year and it worked as it should and I was able to comfortably hang while I got the climber back set up.


I see they have this one that says it goes to 54" waist, which is much larger than I would need:

http://mistymountain.com/military-tactical/military-harnesses/challenge-tactical-harness.html

I have noticed though that climbing harnesses seem to not have weight ratings like hunting harnesses do. Can anyone tell my why this is? Is it just an assumption that if it fits it will hold you under any circumstances?


----------



## djaandy (Jul 12, 2016)

i tried one and they will not fit if you got a bit of a beer gut.


----------



## Fendrick (Jun 3, 2013)

pi9 said:


> I see they have this one that says it goes to 54" waist, which is much larger than I would need:
> 
> http://mistymountain.com/military-tactical/military-harnesses/challenge-tactical-harness.html
> 
> I have noticed though that climbing harnesses seem to not have weight ratings like hunting harnesses do. Can anyone tell my why this is? Is it just an assumption that if it fits it will hold you under any circumstances?


Climbing harnesses need to be able to handle 15kn ( about 3300 pound /force) on the belay loop (tie in) to be certified. That is a minimum. 

Construction safety harnesses that are rated to 310 lbs are are designed for 1800 (pound /force) with a six foot tether to be ANSI/OSHA approved. 

If you are tethered to the tree properly, you should never fall more than 2-3 ft


----------



## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

*Great video. Thanks...*



snapcrackpop said:


> Well if you insist. ...
> https://youtu.be/VsOPf6BymVg
> 2:50 is the bigger fall.
> And yes, I stepped off, but the distance was closer to 40" than 30".
> ...


----------



## dougell (Aug 29, 2014)

Interesting thread.So what's the concensus on a good rch and what all do you need to use it as both a fall restraint device and a life line?While sitting,where is the line connected to the harness?


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Not sure about the consensus but the facts are on page 65 and 66 regarding the ultimate hunting RC harness...Misty Mountain Cadillac Tactical. How you tether and use it, is your choice.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

It's super comfortable and not nearly as big as it appears on their website. It is relatively expensive but it's military grade and a purchase you won't regret.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Anything that looks like the Petzal Aspire is worth consideration.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

A Treestrap OR Qsafe hooks to the front of a rock climbing harness, in the belly button region. DO some research, it is a much better and safer system. Here is a Qsafe Treestap vid...








dougell said:


> Interesting thread.So what's the concensus on a good rch and what all do you need to use it as both a fall restraint device and a life line?While sitting,where is the line connected to the harness?


----------



## mkeller (Jun 28, 2010)

I just came across this post and love the idea of the RC harness. I definitely could see the benefits of making the switch.

I am leaning towards the BD Vario but I have some concerns especially after reading the instructions on the BD website and seeing some set ups on here.

In the instructions it mentions never to tie into the tie-in loop on the harness directly with a carabiner in a climbing situations.

However in the next section it mentions that in belaying/rapelling scenarios a carabiner can be connected directly into the tie-in loop.

I am assuming that the big difference is that in a climbing situation a fall is more prevalent causing more shock/stress on the tie-in loop as opposed to a rapelling situation were it is a smooth and steady decent (not a fall situation).

Not trying to call anyone out just trying to gain clarification! Like I said I love this idea but I want to make sure my set up would be rigged safely/properly if I was in a sudden fall situation.

Thanks in advance for any insight!!





Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

I have searched the thread and can't exactly find the answer to my question. I have a Mammut Ophir 3 Slide Harness, what length Beal Dynaclip do I need for proper use and setup of using this system correctly? My plan was to use a rope that came with another harness wrapped around the tree and just attach to the front loop of the harness via biner thus connecting the harness to the prusik of the tree rope. (http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-o...tZW50OjE6MjU6MTAwMDAwMjE5X2Jjc0NhdDgwMDAwMDM=)


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

m2ms said:


> I have searched the thread and can't exactly find the answer to my question. I have a Mammut Ophir 3 Slide Harness, what length Beal Dynaclip do I need for proper use and setup of using this system correctly? My plan was to use a rope that came with another harness wrapped around the tree and just attach to the front loop of the harness via biner thus connecting the harness to the prusik of the tree rope. (http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-o...tZW50OjE6MjU6MTAwMDAwMjE5X2Jjc0NhdDgwMDAwMDM=)


If using a climber, none. Otherwise any length would work, if it's too long you just attach the safety rope higher till you,have little slack when seated. Make sense? 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

snapcrackpop said:


> If using a climber, none. Otherwise any length would work, if it's too long you just attach the safety rope higher till you,have little slack when seated. Make sense?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Yes sir it does, thank you. I just don't want to buy one that is to short.


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

snapcrackpop said:


> If using a climber, none. Otherwise any length would work, if it's too long you just attach the safety rope higher till you,have little slack when seated. Make sense?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Yes sir, just don't want to buy one to long or to short.


----------



## ezmorningrebel (Dec 27, 2012)

mkeller said:


> I just came across this post and love the idea of the RC harness. I definitely could see the benefits of making the switch.
> 
> I am leaning towards the BD Vario but I have some concerns especially after reading the instructions on the BD website and seeing some set ups on here.
> 
> ...


basically. when rappeling or belaying there isn't any slack in the system and all the components stay loaded up the way they're meant to be. if someone takes a fall lead climbing the whole system goes slack and things can get twisted up in ways that you can't plan for. there's a good chance you could twist the carabiner and put a big load on the gate. tying in also just removes one more link in the chain and forces the climber to slow down make sure everything is good before climbing. it's just extra precaution and common practice in climbing.


----------



## mkeller (Jun 28, 2010)

ezmorningrebel said:


> basically. when rappeling or belaying there isn't any slack in the system and all the components stay loaded up the way they're meant to be. if someone takes a fall lead climbing the whole system goes slack and things can get twisted up in ways that you can't plan for. there's a good chance you could twist the carabiner and put a big load on the gate. tying in also just removes one more link in the chain and forces the climber to slow down make sure everything is good before climbing. it's just extra precaution and common practice in climbing.


Thanks for the clarification! 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

I got the Vario. I'm 6'1". I feel like I can't get it high enough over my hips to be comfortable or safe. Are any guys here taller and recommend a different harness? Or am I missing some adjustment. It seems like the length between the belt and the front of the leg straps is not long enough.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Take a pic in the mirror...?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> No padding versus padding - the padded sheath around the waist on the Aspir sold me:


See how the Petzl looks longer from belt to leg loops.


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)




----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Ahh... try it out at a safe height. I bet upside down feels more secure than it looks.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

I did a layback in it while hooked up. I may just be me getting used to it, but it doesn't feel like it's coming over my hips right.


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

6'3, no issues. The trick is to ensure the waists is loose enough to get over your hips then cinch. Bend at waist when you cinch legs straps.


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

I'll give it a shot, thanks!


----------



## Diesel79 (Oct 11, 2015)

I felt the same way with the vario I just bought. I'm 6'5". I'm returning it and going with a misty mountain milroc. 100% sourced and made in the USA.


----------



## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

* I'd get to a local climbing wall/Shop that sells harnesses and get fit properly. It will be worth it. Get on their wall and give it a good test, I'm positive you'll be very comfortable with its life/fall saving features. 
*


Captain Cully said:


> I got the Vario. I'm 6'1". I feel like I can't get it high enough over my hips to be comfortable or safe. Are any guys here taller and recommend a different harness? Or am I missing some adjustment. It seems like the length between the belt and the front of the leg straps is not long enough.


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

I tried it on again tonight, adjusted everything. I wasn't wearing anything bulky. Still just can't get it to hike up high enough. Did a test hang from my Petzl 100cm Jane lanyard. I'll be heading to EMS this weekend because I'm definitely interested in transitioning away from the traditional harness. Look for a cheap sale on my Vario because dipstick me lost the return slip. My loss, your gain. It's definitely good quality. I also ordered a 75cm looped lanyard to eliminate a caribiner on the harness loop. Now I can just loop it through.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Did you pay with a CC? Sometimes you can get a return or credit cause they can find the purchase based on your CC#.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## ScottyE (Apr 17, 2008)

Crap I just bought a new hunter safety system harness. I actually have a rock climbing harness and never thought to do this.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

You been hiding under a rock? LOL

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jdh0368 (Apr 21, 2011)

What a great idea I will give this a try.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

mkeller said:


> I am leaning towards the BD Vario but I have some concerns especially after reading the instructions on the BD website and seeing some set ups on here.
> 
> In the instructions it mentions never to tie into the tie-in loop on the harness directly with a carabiner in a climbing situations.
> 
> However in the next section it mentions that in belaying/rapelling scenarios a carabiner can be connected directly into the tie-in loop.



The difference between the Vario and Aspir is the Vario has a 2" wide nylon waist strap. The Petzl Aspir has the waistband sleeved thru a 3" wide padded sheath. I have the Petzl Gym harness that's identical to the Vario and the Aspir is 10 times more comfortable imo.


I think the confusion over the belay loop connection is:

a carabiner should not be connected to the belay loop. When rock climbing, the carabiner should capture the top loop and the leg strap connection to promote a sitting posture at the end of the fall I believe. 

However, for hunting from a tree stand, I'd be inclined to connect the carabiner to the top loop and the belay loop to stop the pull on the leg straps that would occur first when connected in the conventional method. This would promote a bit more vertical drop with my 3"- 4" fall. But the single top loop of the Aspir or Vario eliminates that altogether. 

I would also think the biggest concern would be those switching to a RC harness willy-nilly with a half-assed idea how the actual system should be setup. I spent considerable time on climbing and tree arborist forums and received some good knowledge on how to set up my system correctly. My lifelines hang from a 1/2" screw link connected to either a 3/8" log chain or 3/8" steel cable wrapped around at the top of the tree. 

Would you believe in the pic below the tree arborist guys indicated I had the cable clamp on wrong?


----------



## squid013 (Jan 12, 2014)

Yall got me interested in this idea now 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## jdslyr (Jan 27, 2005)

squid013 said:


> Yall got me interested in this idea now
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Yep, RC harness is the way to go for more safety and total comfort for hunting . I did the switch last yr and love it . Just buy one and use your regular tree tether. I still use my muddy for hanging steps and stands for the linemans belt feature, but its a pos for hunting compared to a rc harness.


----------



## squid013 (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm 6-05, my treespider is comfy but just not enough 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

So I took the valuable advice and went to an EMS. Tried on a few different harnesses. Just like everything else, each has a different fir & feel. Settled on this one:



Fits nice and stays where it should. So I'm sending the Vario back. Anyone else considering making the switch, I'd recommend doing the same. Try before you buy. Earth shattering wisdom, I know.


----------



## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

I was lucky, I was in to climbing long before I considered using a rock climbing harness for hunting. So, when I bought my own harness years ago, I had several to try at my local climbing shop. *I know this, after renting them to climb in for a good year, NOT all fit good and go on easy, that is for sure.*



Captain Cully said:


> So I took the valuable advice and went to an EMS. Tried on a few different harnesses. Just like everything else, each has a different fir & feel.
> 
> Fits nice and stays where it should. So I'm sending the Vario back. Anyone else considering making the switch, I'd recommend doing the same. Try before you buy. Earth shattering wisdom, I know.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Captain Cully said:


> So I took the valuable advice and went to an EMS. Tried on a few different harnesses. Just like everything else, each has a different fir & feel. Settled on this one:
> 
> 
> 
> Fits nice and stays where it should. So I'm sending the Vario back. Anyone else considering making the switch, I'd recommend doing the same. Try before you buy. Earth shattering wisdom, I know.


LOL, glad you found the right one. 

Hopefully you already know you should NOT attach to the red loop? You should tie-in like this:








Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

Will a Beal Dynaclip looped lanyard work for that application? That's what I've seen guys use on here.


----------



## Captain Cully (Oct 4, 2009)

And for the record....I don't own any purple hip hugger cut off jorts.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

snapcrackpop said:


> LOL, glad you found the right one.
> 
> Hopefully you already know you should NOT attach to the red loop? You should tie-in like this:


I know that's the routing method for rock climbers that fall 100' or so off a cliff but I would probably modify it a bit for falling only a few inches to promote a more vertical drop. If you take the orange rope and pull from the top, it will engage the leg straps first before bottoming out on the central waist strap which will pull your legs up initially - I tried that and didn't like it with the first one I tried. That's why many of us use the single waist loop for treestands.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks for the explanation. I have read that the belay loop is not as strong as the the above method, so I wanted to call attention to that.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## nhangler (Dec 15, 2012)

I made the switch and will not go back. It took a lot for me to switch as you are really going against some controlled safety messaging including the potential legal advisory on the same. But if you think about it, if you were ever injured or died, the legal team on the vendors side will be hunting hard to claim your ignorance in following their directions, proper equipment care, or heeding other warning such as the expiration. The expiration made me wake up to reality in that on treestand harnesses is like 2-3 years. If it is on the shelf for 6-9 months and only using it in the fall you can look at having to buy a new one every 1-2 years? Rock climbing harnesses have this as well but ususally 5-10 years.

However the biggest reason I use one is after challenging myself on which I felt more safe in and hung and recovered from both. First tried the rock harness then the full. That day was the last time I had a full body harness on.

Btw, I do suggest that if you want to use this type of system that you do so at your own risk or stay with a full body harness that includes detailed instructions. Following the advice of someone on the internet is risky and comes with the potential for interpretation issues or other factors such as conditions that may vary from person, equipment, or environment.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

snapcrackpop said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I have read that the belay loop is not as strong as the the above method, so I wanted to call attention to that.


I don't believe the belay loop is any less stronger, but it's purpose is to belay or rappel with. Attaching a carabiner to the belay loop when repelling keeps it in line and prevents cross loading. If you replaced the orange rope in post #749 with a carabiner - which I think most bowhunters would do) - it could cross load during a fall and compromise it's strength.

If I was forced to wear that type of harness in a tree stand, I wouldn't use a biner but rather route a Dynaclip around both the waist loop and belay loop via a lark's foot to promote a more vertical drop. I can always lean back while suspended if I want to - with a rear tether that would be nearly impossible imo.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm not sure what you mean by "cross load", but the rest appears correct. 
https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-ad...-_-NA&avad=36495_abf28f93&avad=36495_abf28f93

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## cornfedkiller (Feb 16, 2008)

tpcollins said:


> Would you believe in the pic below the tree arborist guys indicated I had the cable clamp on wrong?


Yep - you never saddle a dead horse...


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

snapcrackpop said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "cross load", but the rest appears correct.
> https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-ad...-_-NA&avad=36495_abf28f93&avad=36495_abf28f93
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Notice where the carabiner is clipped in on the video. Doc I don't know where you read that the belay loop is not strong enough, but that is where my black diamond vario is tied in at.

If more people tried what this guy did, there would be more R/C harness users.
*However the biggest reason I use one is after challenging myself on which I felt more safe in and hung and recovered from both. First tried the rock harness then the full. That day was the last time I had a full body harness on.
*


----------



## mkeller (Jun 28, 2010)

For all of the guys that have made the switch....are you using RCs with a mobile stick/hang on set up? 80% of my hunting this year will require a mobile setup. I think the one feature I would miss would be the lineman belt. If I was using a climber or hunting already hung stands a RC harness set up would be a no brainer. <br />
<br />
I seen a few guys on this thread mention mods to their RC harness to include a linesman belt, but I would be apprehensive to modify/add something that wasn't included in the original design. <br />
<br />
I understand I could run the tree strap around the tree and tie both ends into the harness which would work like a linesman belt, but wouldn't provide a lot clearance to get around sticks because of where you have to tie in with a RC harness (not hips like a true linesman belt).....anyone have any more insight into this who is currently using a stick/hang on mobile set up?<br />
<br />
Thanks<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

mkeller said:


> For all of the guys that have made the switch....are you using RCs with a mobile stick/hang on set up? 80% of my hunting this year will require a mobile setup. I think the one feature I would miss would be the lineman belt. If I was using a climber or hunting already hung stands a RC harness set up would be a no brainer. <br />
> <br />
> I seen a few guys on this thread mention mods to their RC harness to include a linesman belt, but I would be apprehensive to modify/add something that wasn't included in the original design. <br />
> <br />
> ...


mkeller...your answer is on page # 66, post #660.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

cornfedkiller said:


> Yep - you never saddle a dead horse...


Yup! I went back out and corrected everyone that was wrong.





snapcrackpop said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "cross load",



Crossloaded would be where the carabiner connects to a loop at each end and the lanyard pulls at the middle connection joint, or it gets hung up between just two connections.


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

Season is approaching...who else is switching to a r/c harness this year? This will be my first year using one.


----------



## bowhunter9 (Jan 3, 2007)

I am!! Got my vario speed harness and beal dynaclip. I'm amazed at just how much lighter and more comfortable these things are. 

How tight should they be on the waist and the legs?


----------



## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

The harness should not slip below your hip bones, so when you first slip it on, tighten it up once it is over your hip bone so that you can't move it below those hip bones. It will be plenty snug, but not uncomfortable. That is what will keep you from slipping out of it if you go inverted on the original fall. 



bowhunter9 said:


> I am!! Got my vario speed harness and beal dynaclip. I'm amazed at just how much lighter and more comfortable these things are.
> 
> *How tight should they be on the waist and the legs?*


----------



## bowhunter9 (Jan 3, 2007)

Kevin2 said:


> The harness should not slip below your hip bones, so when you first slip it on, tighten it up once it is over your hip bone so that you can't move it below those hip bones. It will be plenty snug, but not uncomfortable. That is what will keep you from slipping out of it if you go inverted on the original fall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

I have a question, is there an advantage/reason to use a sewn lanyard between treestrap and harness versus just hooking the prusik of your tree strap to you harness via carabineer?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Some lanyards are sewn for breakaway to slow down the fall. If used properly, a rope girth hitched to the tree and attached by a prusik and a carabiner snugged down, will work fine.


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

I was referring to a dyna clip style lanyard. What is the advantage/reason? See a lot of post about those. So if I use a 11mm static line around the tree with a 7mm prusik attached to harness via a carbineer that would work just as well? Can you explain properly used? Thanks


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

All line is not created equal. Some will hold more weight than others of the same dimensions. If your rope is strong enough like a HSS then it will be fine. Used properly is girth hitched around the tree trunk at about head height, line coming down under your arm when sitting. Prusik keeping the line snug while sitting. This allows the hunter to shoot while setting or while standing and turning. If you fall it should put you right back on the seat. While climbing it should never have more than 2' slack in it.


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

Will these ropes be what I need? https://www.rei.com/ShoppingCart


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

nothing shows up there but if they are rock climbers ropes you are looking at then yes 11 mm will work fine.


----------



## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

Okie X said:


> Nothing is more comfortable, nonrestrictive, or as lite as the Summit SOP.
> 
> So I have no desire to try a rock harness or a harness that says Muddy on it 17 times.


I use the SOP harness and have the same opinions. I also have a RCH that I use when out west and want to throw it in the pack in case needed. I have been suspended in both and will still us a 4 point harness for most applications.


----------



## forkhorn83 (Jan 21, 2007)

Looking to start using a RC harness this year. This may have been discussed before, but where do you guys buy your 1" tubular nylon tether with sewn loops for caribiner on both sides? I'm just trying to find something to use with the harness to attach me to lifeline on the tree. Thanks in advance.


----------



## jacobh (Jun 7, 2009)

I got all my stuff on amazon


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

jsun713 said:


> Looking to start using a RC harness this year. This may have been discussed before, but where do you guys buy your 1" tubular nylon tether with sewn loops for caribiner on both sides? I'm just trying to find something to use with the harness to attach me to lifeline on the tree. Thanks in advance.


Do a web search for "rabbit runners sling". They come in a variety of sizes and colors. The tubular webbing can be found easily online or at an Arborist retail store.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

jsun713 said:


> Looking to start using a RC harness this year. This may have been discussed before, but where do you guys buy your 1" tubular nylon tether with sewn loops for caribiner on both sides? I'm just trying to find something to use with the harness to attach me to lifeline on the tree. Thanks in advance.


I'm sure someone will chime in and their is differing opinions, but it is my understand that what you are talking about is not dynamic.


----------



## Dinger9 (Dec 31, 2007)

I've read through a fair amount of this thread as well as numerous searches so I'm just going to be the guy who asks... 

For those that use a rock climbing harness- do you have any issues when wearing several layers? I've worn a rock harness several times climbing but never with any bulky layers... Any issues?


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Dinger9 said:


> I've read through a fair amount of this thread as well as numerous searches so I'm just going to be the guy who asks...
> 
> For those that use a rock climbing harness- do you have any issues when wearing several layers? I've worn a rock harness several times climbing but never with any bulky layers... Any issues?


I wear mine under my bibs, rope goes out the zipper above my waist. (Not pants zipper height.)
It's nice because I don't have to remove the harness to put on.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Kevin2 (Apr 1, 2009)

I wear mine with up to 3 layers. I'm not a huge guy, and my rock climbing harness is plenty big to use with regular hunting pants, thick wool long johns about 1/4" thick, and some insulated bibs. 



Dinger9 said:


> I've read through a fair amount of this thread as well as numerous searches so I'm just going to be the guy who asks...
> 
> For those that use a rock climbing harness- do you have any issues when wearing several layers? I've worn a rock harness several times climbing but never with any bulky layers... Any issues?


----------



## cbigbear (Jul 22, 2009)

jsun713 said:


> Looking to start using a RC harness this year. This may have been discussed before, but where do you guys buy your 1" tubular nylon tether with sewn loops for caribiner on both sides? I'm just trying to find something to use with the harness to attach me to lifeline on the tree. Thanks in advance.


The tubular webbing doesn't have sewn loops. We're tying knots at each end to create loops. The setup is detailed out in this video.
https://youtu.be/7TlGkTd82eM

REI, backcountry, arbor supply stores all have tubular webbing. 


Home of Talons 
www.mobilehuntinggear.com


----------



## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

So if rock climbing harnesses are the better alternative and safer how come all kids rock climbing harnesses are full body harnesses?


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

enkriss said:


> So if rock climbing harnesses are the better alternative and safer how come all kids rock climbing harnesses are full body harnesses?


Is this a legitimate question or just something you want to debate?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

cbowie said:


> Is this a legitimate question or just something you want to debate?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


It was a question. I guess you dont have an answer?


----------



## fatsbucknut (Apr 29, 2005)

enkriss said:


> So if rock climbing harnesses are the better alternative and safer how come all kids rock climbing harnesses are full body harnesses?



"kids have different anatomy than adults, and they need different gear — they are disproportionately top-heavy and have narrow hips, meaning children climbing in adult harnesses are prone to flipping over in a fall. For this reason, it’s important that small children use a body harness, as it raises their center of gravity when climbing with a rope."


2 second search on google


----------



## edw_oh (Jun 6, 2012)

Who makes the gray and blue device attached to the carabiner of your lineman's belt?


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

enkriss said:


> It was a question. I guess you dont have an answer?


My answer would be...most child harnesses are probably designed around the idea that the adult supervising could easily assist the child if they were in trouble. Most children aren't mature enough mentally or physically to get themselves out of serious trouble. 

Additionally, there is always a risk when hunting from an elevated position. If you're willing to take a small risk and change to a rock climbing harness, then go for it. There is a respectable amount of experienced users that have contributed to this thread and are willing to share their knowledge/experience with you.

Try it or don't try it but joining in on the conversation just to argue about something you're not even interested in...very silly. 



Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

edw_oh said:


> Who makes the gray and blue device attached to the carabiner of your lineman's belt?


It's called a Wild Country Ropeman Ascender 1 and it's available in blue or orange. I've been using one for a couple of years now and I can't imagine there being anything any better. 










It's available on Amazon.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## bdeal (Oct 28, 2005)

I have a linemans belt with the ropeman also. It is awesome!


----------



## deercamp (Feb 25, 2008)

http://yatesgear.com/en/extractionpersonal-retention-lanyard

I'm trying to decide what to use for a lanyard and I came across this. I bought the Misty Mountain Milroc rock climbing harness which has a belay loop. I was going to girth hitch this on my harness then clip into the prusik knot on my HSS tree rope. It stretches from 22" to 32" which I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. My thinking is that it will help absorb the shock, but you'll fall another 10". I just came from Cabelas and noticed that on one of Muddys safety harness they had the same lanyard on theirs. 
Well I would love to get some opinions on this. Ty


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

You can get a beal dynaclip off Amazon for half the price of the stretchy contraption. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

deercamp said:


> http://yatesgear.com/en/extractionpersonal-retention-lanyard
> 
> I'm trying to decide what to use for a lanyard and I came across this. I bought the Misty Mountain Milroc rock climbing harness which has a belay loop. I was going to girth hitch this on my harness then clip into the prusik knot on my HSS tree rope. It stretches from 22" to 32" which I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. My thinking is that it will help absorb the shock, but you'll fall another 10". I just came from Cabelas and noticed that on one of Muddys safety harness they had the same lanyard on theirs.
> Well I would love to get some opinions on this. Ty


I like that! Now I have to check specs and find a use for it! Linesman belt mod so it doesn't slip down the back of the tree????


----------



## deercamp (Feb 25, 2008)

m2ms said:


> You can get a beal dynaclip off Amazon for half the price of the stretchy contraption.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know I could get a Beal Dynaclip for half the price. I'm a little picky though on what I want. The problem is I don't want to end up with one that's blue. This is what has happened to a few other people. I've even called a few places that were online and that can't verify what color you'll get. So no thanks. I just want to know if this will work for what I'm trying to use it for.


----------



## Hoytdude90 (Sep 15, 2008)

Tagged!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

deercamp said:


> I know I could get a Beal Dynaclip for half the price. I'm a little picky though on what I want. The problem is I don't want to end up with one that's blue. This is what has happened to a few other people. I've even called a few places that were online and that can't verify what color you'll get. So no thanks. I just want to know if this will work for what I'm trying to use it for.


Lol, I have one bright yellow and one green one. Your prerogative bud. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## deercamp (Feb 25, 2008)

You don't need two LOL!!! So how much for the green one? Where did you get it from?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

enkriss said:


> So if rock climbing harnesses are the better alternative and safer how come *all kids rock climbing harnesses are full body harnesses?*[/QUOTE
> 
> *Guess you are wrong again.*
> https://www.google.com/webhp?source...2&ie=UTF-8#q=children's+rock+climbing+harness
> ...


----------



## enkriss (Apr 10, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> enkriss said:
> 
> 
> > So if rock climbing harnesses are the better alternative and safer how come *all kids rock climbing harnesses are full body harnesses?*[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Enkriss: I'm not offended at all. I just find making accusations as above, are wrong more often than right. If you have something good to say about Rock Climbing harnesses that you care to share, fine. Just getting a little tired of the negative comments from someone who hasn't used one.


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

deercamp said:


> You don't need two LOL!!! So how much for the green one? Where did you get it from?



One is the wife's, Amazon 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BrokenLimbs (Nov 25, 2008)

m2ms said:


> Lol, I have one bright yellow and one green one. Your prerogative bud.


I wouldn't want a blue one either. Only "color" deer eyes can pick up. And since nothing in the woods is blue around here anyways..... Only thing possibly worse would be white (or uv reflective materials) lol.


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

needing help with getting a linemans belt set up. Any suggestions? 

What exactly are you using? 

I don't want to have to tie knots etc...because I suck at it and I don't want to deal with it.


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

Burtle said:


> needing help with getting a linemans belt set up. Any suggestions?
> 
> What exactly are you using?
> 
> I don't want to have to tie knots etc...because I suck at it and I don't want to deal with it.


Mist Mountain Cadillac Tactical has STRONG gear loops. Otherwise look back a few posts about running a climbing loop through the waist of another harness.
Or tie a square knot of nylon webbing and then a larks foot over the waist of the harness.

Lots of redundant info in these RC threads.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Quick question for you guys. I'm looking to upgrade to a rock climbing harness and want to know if I can use a rabbit runner to connect the harness to my HSS tree rope. I'm looking at the beal dynaclip, but saw a rabbit runner and can't seem to find if I could use the runner by itself or if it has to be paired with something else.


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Nevermind...I should have used the search function in this thread first. I now see that I can, but I still don't know which route I want to take.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

cbowie said:


> It's called a Wild Country Ropeman Ascender 1 and it's available in blue or orange. I've been using one for a couple of years now and I can't imagine there being anything any better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When I switched over to a RC harness, I too bought the Ropeman 1 as I was going to install it above my friction knot as a backup. But I found a friction knot setup was just as effective.

However, it is called an ascender and not a fall restraint for a reason - it's used to ascend (and descend) the line. I'd rather have rope cord tightening down around my lifeline rather than some metal teeth biting into it during a fall.


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

wmn2 said:


> Nevermind...I should have used the search function in this thread first. I now see that I can, but I still don't know which route I want to take.


Not to say I am correct or incorrect but I went with the Beal Dynaclip. That was just my choice.


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

m2ms said:


> Not to say I am correct or incorrect but I went with the Beal Dynaclip. That was just my choice.


I ended up going with the rabbit runner. I'm going to thread it through the front of the harness and hook my biner through both loops of the runner and then hook the biner to my tree rope's prussic. I don't think I'll need the full 48" of the runner I got, so I will loop it and use it as a 24" runner. I already have a locking carabiner from when I was in the Marines. This is the harness I'm going to pick up. I have a question about sizing though. The XL says it goes to a 38.2" waist, I wear a 38 in jeans. Should I stick with the XL or should I go to the just for more adjustability?

http://www.backcountry.com/mammut-o...GltYmluZyBIZWxtZXRzOjE6NzpiY3NDYXQ4MTEwMDAxMw


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

wmn2 said:


> I ended up going with the rabbit runner. I'm going to thread it through the front of the harness and hook my biner through both loops of the runner and then hook the biner to my tree rope's prussic. I don't think I'll need the full 48" of the runner I got, so I will loop it and use it as a 24" runner.


So your entire system is static? I'd suggest keeping everything as taut as possible so you don't fall far if you ever do.


----------



## d_rek (Nov 26, 2013)

Hey all - great thread!!

I was trying to convince my FIL, who is an infrequent treestand hunter, to ditch his crappy 4-point webbing harness that came with the ladder stand he setup this year.

Can you list some brands and prices for your rock climbing harness? When I had him jump on amazon he immediately started looking at the cheapest ones... I want to make sure the old man is as safe as possible when he gets up in that tree! 

I already showed him a rope tether and linemans belt (I am a saddle hunter myself), so we're good there. Pictures are always welcome though!


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

tpcollins said:


> So your entire system is static? I'd suggest keeping everything as taut as possible so you don't fall far if you ever do.


I was thinking the same thing. That is why I mentioned the dyna clip to him.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

m2ms said:


> I was thinking the same thing. That is why I mentioned the dyna clip to him.


I would think even a short fall of less than a foot with all static attachments will have your nuts down by your ankles imo. Rock climbers have a dynamic top rope so if they fall, it's going to be like bungee jumping. No stretch = potential hurt.


----------



## J_Burk (May 19, 2015)

So is the Beal Dynaclip the preferred option/method? What else is everyone using to connect RC harness to Lifeline?


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

J_Burk said:


> So is the Beal Dynaclip the preferred option/method? What else is everyone using to connect RC harness to Lifeline?


Yes it is, thus the reason it has been mentioned various times in the majority of the MANY related threads.


----------



## Krazo (Dec 15, 2012)

Tag


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

I guess I didn't really think about the dynamic aspect. Looks like I'll be ordering the dynaxlip after all. Thanks all


Semper Fidelis


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

J_Burk said:


> So is the Beal Dynaclip the preferred option/method? What else is everyone using to connect RC harness to Lifeline?


There are a couple others that are dynamic as well and appear to be similar - the Petzl Jane and the PMI. There are probably others as long as they have a high strength rating, usually 22k (5000#) seems to be the norm.

https://www.karstsports.com/petzl-l...URRCZKOENSqcVZjg_u06vwHVTnlbXMZlNWxoCVxPw_wcB

http://shop.pmirope.com/pmi-dynamic-sewn-lanyard-24-60cm-black-sg51261


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Btw I appreciate the patience with me on this. It's hard to find a lot of info for this application on rock climbing forums. I ordered the dynaclip for my dynamic rope so I'm covered there. Would there be any benefit to still using the runner as a secondary application say if the dynaclip broke? Or would a runner be more likely to break due to the static nature and lack of stretch or "give"? 


Semper Fidelis


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

wmn2 said:


> I ordered the dynaclip for my dynamic rope so I'm covered there. Would there be any benefit to still using the runner as a secondary application say if the dynaclip broke? Or would a runner be more likely to break due to the static nature and lack of stretch or "give"?
> 
> 
> Semper Fidelis


Where is this dynamic rope you speak of?


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

vito9999 said:


> Where is this dynamic rope you speak of?


What I'm gathering from others' comments, is if I go with a runner instead of the dynaclip, then I have an all static system. If I use the dynaclip, then I will have a dynamic aspect due to the dynaclip being dynamic. Is this correct?


Semper Fidelis


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

wmn2 said:


> Btw I appreciate the patience with me on this. It's hard to find a lot of info for this application on rock climbing forums. I ordered the dynaclip for my dynamic rope so I'm covered there. *Would there be any benefit to still using the runner as a secondary application say if the dynaclip broke?* Or would a runner be more likely to break due to the static nature and lack of stretch or "give"?
> 
> Semper Fidelis


The Dynaclip has a 15Kn rating which is something like 3372 pounds. I think it would be in the way but if you did use a static runner, just make sure it's longer than the Dynaclip will stretch.


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

wmn2 said:


> What I'm gathering from others' comments, is if I go with a runner instead of the dynaclip, then I have an all static system. If I use the dynaclip, then I will have a dynamic aspect due to the dynaclip being dynamic. Is this correct?
> 
> 
> Semper Fidelis



The way I understood that post is that you intended to connect a Beal to another dynamic rope. This not something you would want to do. The Beal is used a your dynamic interface to a fixed static rope. This allows for some give in the system should you fall. You do not want to be suspended from 30feet dynamic rope.


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Oh I got you. No I meant my beal would be attached to my harness and to the tree rope. 


Semper Fidelis


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

wmn2 said:


> Oh I got you. No I meant my beal would be attached to my harness and to the tree rope.
> 
> 
> Semper Fidelis



Well done. Glad we are all clear on what we collectively were trying to say. Much harder to explain this way, but once you get your gear it will make sense. Even a caveman could do it, so it won't be difficult for a Marine..... &#55357;&#56833;.


----------



## dillio67 (Oct 1, 2004)

Ive read pages and pages and Im doing this, i did search and cant find if can i do this with an iwom suit. just run it out like a 4pt behind the head??
I dont have the iwom yet


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I don't have and haven't tried the IWOM suit. If just using the IWOM while sitting on stand, I think that running it out the back as you stated would work find as long as you keep it snug.
If you get one, try it at home and let us know what you think.:tongue:


----------



## Fendrick (Jun 3, 2013)

The IWOM has a hole about waist height just off to the right of center that I pass my tether through.


----------



## Deer777 (Aug 4, 2013)

Is there anything wrong with using a Trango 120 cm low bulk sling to attach your harness to the tree rope? My understanding is it's strength is plenty. Seems like you could loop it through your belay loop, pull the other end through that loop and not have to have a carabiner in your lap? Anyone do this or is this a bad idea? Thanks


----------



## Dinger9 (Dec 31, 2007)

Two questions pertaining to attachment to the tree... 

1. For those who use a beal dynaclip- do you girth hitch the strap to your harness or use a carabiner?

2. For those of you who use a Petzl connect adjust- when you run a carabiner through the quick adjust does it make any noise? Rattling? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Question about my black diamond momentum. I got it today and when I put it on, if my belay loop is centered on the front, the gear loop and straps from the belt to the leg loops is off center in the back. Is there a way to correct this or no?


Semper Fidelis


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Dinger9 said:


> Two questions pertaining to attachment to the tree...
> 
> 1. For those who use a beal dynaclip- do you girth hitch the strap to your harness or use a carabiner?
> 
> ...



I have Black Diamond Vario and per manufacture (Black Diamond and Beal) i use a my Beal via girth hitch. Biner is attached to harness for belay use not climbing.


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

can someone direct me to harness's that would be safe to use the gear loops for my linemans belt? I had the misty tactical one ordered but was backordered 2-3 weeks and I didn't want to wait.


I don't want to tie knots. I already have two auto locking carabiners and the ascender mk1


----------



## snapcrackpop (Nov 15, 2010)

It's the only one I know of. Can't tie a square knot then loop it over the belt?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

As far as I know, rock climbing harnesses are designed for rock climbers not bow hunters. They have gear loops on the sides of most of them but are not intended to hang ones body weight in a fall.
That said, an extra line can be added to a rock climbing harness fairly easily. I just use a line girth hitched around the tree and connected to a prusik and then carabiner to the belay loop. This puts the line n the middle in front of me, which makes it easier for me to screw in steps or hang climbing sticks.:wink:


----------



## Riprau (Jan 8, 2013)

Check out the Metolius website. I just ordered the Safe Tech All Purpose harness. It is intentionally overbuilt resulting in a slightly heavier harness but will do what you want. Every possible connection point, including the gear loops, is rated a minimum of 9kn which is the breaking strength of climbing rope. Of course, do your own research before using any equipment.


Burtle said:


> can someone direct me to harness's that would be safe to use the gear loops for my linemans belt? I had the misty tactical one ordered but was backordered 2-3 weeks and I didn't want to wait.
> 
> 
> I don't want to tie knots. I already have two auto locking carabiners and the ascender mk1


----------



## Squirrels (Sep 7, 2010)

Burtle said:


> can someone direct me to harness's that would be safe to use the gear loops for my linemans belt? I had the misty tactical one ordered but was backordered 2-3 weeks and I didn't want to wait.
> 
> 
> I don't want to tie knots. I already have two auto locking carabiners and the ascender mk1


Get a Petzel Aspir and order a 36" nylon climbing sling (1" wide). The Aspir is designed in a way that will allow you to thread the sling on in the waist belt. Very clean and works great. I got my harness and sling from moosejaw. The sling is made by Sterling Rope.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Riprau said:


> Check out the Metolius website. I just ordered the Safe Tech All Purpose harness. It is intentionally overbuilt resulting in a slightly heavier harness but will do what you want. Every possible connection point, including the gear loops, is rated a minimum of 9kn which is the breaking strength of climbing rope. Of course, do your own research before using any equipment.


That is a great looking rock climbing harness. To me it is better suited for rock climbing than bow hunting. I personally would not suggest hanging from the gear loops. They are designed to hold the weight of gear. If you look at the picture in their web site, the gear loops are holding gloves, ropes etc. You could put a sling around your harness belt and through the loops to help keep the sling in place, but please don't trust your life to a gear loop.
The leg padding would be tough to sit on for 3-4 hours. The extra gear loops can make noise on the sides of the stand.


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Burtle said:


> can someone direct me to harness's that would be safe to use the gear loops for my linemans belt? I had the misty tactical one ordered but was backordered 2-3 weeks and I didn't want to wait.
> 
> 
> I don't want to tie knots. I already have two auto locking carabiners and the ascender mk1


Burtle, do something like this if you can't wait on the Misty Mountain CT.








I made up 1 of these, prior to getting my Misty Mountain CT and it worked really well. The orange loop is called a twin loop rabbit runner and it's coupled to the harness with tubular nylon webbing. I would recommend trying to weld the rabbit runner onto the harness with high quality fabric glue, then slide the tubular nylon webbing over both to couple them together. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Nice job! Cbowie. Looks functional and should be plenty strong enough. :wink:


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

thirdhandman said:


> Nice job! Cbowie. Looks functional and should be plenty strong enough. :wink:


Credit needs to go to "houser52". These are his original images from page 2 of this thread.


thirdhandman said:


> Nice job! Cbowie. Looks functional and should be plenty strong enough. :wink:



Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Now that you brought it up, I do remember houser52 posting it. It's hell to get old, but beats the alternative.


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

thirdhandman said:


> Now that you brought it up, I do remember houser52 posting it. It's hell to get old, but beats the alternative.


Lol...very true.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

Okay,

Misty Tactical harness will be here Wednesday next week. I ended up finding it on another site.
The Mk1 ascender showed up yesterday.


I still need to order a lanyard for a lineman's belt 
I still need two auto locking carabiners 
I still need a set up for when I'm actually sitting in the tree I can hook myself to the tree from the harness


Can someone give me suggestions? I found a 10ft lanyard for the belt, is that too long ? 

I know the info is in this thread but I'm on here on my phone a lot its hard to search and go through everything


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Burtle said:


> Okay,
> 
> Misty Tactical harness will be here Wednesday next week. I ended up finding it on another site.
> The Mk1 ascender showed up yesterday.
> ...


I can't vouch for most of the other things, but the beal dynaclip comes highly recommended on this thread for attaching yourself to the tree while sitting. It's a dynamic rope and most I've seen use a girth hitch to attach to the harness and carabiner to attach to the tree. I personally will be using an hss tree rope to attach mine to.


Semper Fidelis


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Burtle said:


> Okay,
> 
> Misty Tactical harness will be here Wednesday next week. I ended up finding it on another site.
> The Mk1 ascender showed up yesterday.
> ...


The 10 foot lanyard is fine. You need to go ahead get the 2 autolocking locking carabiners and get familiar with this stuff by practicing. You need to have a clear understanding of your gear and your climbing routine before going into a live hunting situation. If you wait, you will end up frustrated and have a less than desirable experience. You can tweak your system and gear as you gain more experience but you need to pull the trigger on your essential gear, now. 

I'm not trying to be pushy but you'll understand what I'm saying as soon as you get started. It's not overly difficult...you just need some hands on experience ASAP. [emoji6] 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

For now, use the lanyard to attach yourself to the tree with the original carabiners. Take any excess slack out by looping the lanyard higher on the tree.










This is just how I use it...most folks will "strongly" suggest hooking into the front belay loop and that is the safer connection. I would probably recommend the same. 

Now, get busy! [emoji6]


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

cbowie: One of the biggest advantages to using a r/c harness is with the rope in the front, it is much easier to do a self rescue. Please take a prusik and put it on the working end of that rope. Then attach your carabiner to the prusik and connect in front on the belay loop. It would be extremely difficult to do a self rescue attached in the back.:secret:


----------



## Legend921 (Jul 25, 2016)

Anyone interested, gearexpress.com has Black Diamond Vario Speed harness for 25% off and Beal Dynclip for for 20% off with free shipping. Just picked both up, can't wait to try them out.


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

thirdhandman said:


> cbowie: One of the biggest advantages to using a r/c harness is with the rope in the front, it is much easier to do a self rescue. Please take a prusik and put it on the working end of that rope. Then attach your carabiner to the prusik and connect in front on the belay loop. It would be extremely difficult to do a self rescue attached in the back.:secret:


I had my disclaimer under the picture but duly noted. 😉

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks so much guys! Ordering the rest of the gear I need in just a bit. With working so much I won't even be able to hunt for another 3 weeks at this rate. I'll be practicing a lot with a tree in the back yard


----------



## cbowie (Nov 17, 2010)

Burtle said:


> Thanks so much guys! Ordering the rest of the gear I need in just a bit. With working so much I won't even be able to hunt for another 3 weeks at this rate. I'll be practicing a lot with a tree in the back yard


If you run into problems, you know where to find us. Lol

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## ATAhhshoot (Aug 25, 2016)

My first time was Tuesday. I bought the Vario Speed Harness and 50cm Beal Dynaclip. I do a larks' foot with the dynaclip through the Vario, then attach that to the caribiner/prussic knot on my HSS tree rope. I was able to slide the prussic to the perfect position to give me plenty of mobility on the stand but also to a safe point where I would not fall more than a foot or so. I put the tree rope almost directly behind my waist when standing. Pros are it's very comfortable, and no annoying tug at your back. Nothing gets in the way and you don't feel like you're wearing any harness at all. I had less metal on metal clanky sounds because there's less metal buckles to contend with also. Cons are the thing is hard to walk to your stand in. Always wants to fall off (I'm thinking of fashioning some velcro straps to hold the harness to my pants belt when walking), and when tightened a lot it will be a bit of a nut-pincher if not loosened back up. Overall a great purchase and I will not be going back to a regular harness.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

If the waist belt is coming off while walking, something is wrong. It needs to be tight over the hip bones or perhaps not fastened properly. Legs can be slightly looser to eliminate the pinch.:wink:


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Some just do not have enough below the hips to help hold harness up. I just put mine on at my tree.


----------



## blazinsoles (Jul 23, 2013)

I just ordered the vario harness and 75cm dynaclip. I can't wait to use this thing. Hell I might just dangle for the fun of it!


----------



## Thwack9 (Sep 10, 2015)

Used my RC harness for the first time last weekend. Never felt so safe off the ground in my life. Only issue is my harness rubs together when I walk so I have to put it on at the stand. Harness + rope + ropeman and biner and still cheaper than hss. Just to show off I purposely dropped my bottom in front of some family who don't wear harnesses and they were all impressed on how well it worked. By far best purchase I have made for hunting. Next to a thermacell of course


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

vito9999 said:


> Some just do not have enough below the hips to help hold harness up. I just put mine on at my tree.


The hip bones are the only thing that keeps the hunter in the harness in a head first fall. Need to have the waist belt snug over the hip bones.:wink:


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> The hip bones are the only thing that keeps the hunter in the harness in a head first fall. Need to have the waist belt snug over the hip bones.:wink:


Beer belly + narrow hips+ no butt = harnesses sliding down while walking 😃. No prob when sitting, just cannot walk far with it on.


----------



## emac396 (Jul 7, 2010)

wmn2 said:


> Question about my black diamond momentum. I got it today and when I put it on, if my belay loop is centered on the front, the gear loop and straps from the belt to the leg loops is off center in the back. Is there a way to correct this or no?
> 
> 
> Semper Fidelis


I have the same problem, checked out another harness to make sure mine wasn't sewn crooked but they are all that way?? I just bought it thanks to this thread and will try it as soon as I am comfortable with it.


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

I think if you're at the medium/bigger end of the size spectrum for the harness that it does this. If I tighten the waist strap down real tight it centers up more, so i'm assuming that's it. Nothing I can't work with though.


----------



## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

do they make a climbing harness for a real fat arse? ya that would be me.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

vito9999 said:


> Beer belly + narrow hips+ no butt = harnesses sliding down while walking &#55357;&#56835;. No prob when sitting, just cannot walk far with it on.


Not trying to be funny but if you can't get the waist belt snug over your hips, you really should consider adding this to keep you in the harness in a head first fall.
http://www.backcountry.com/black-di...KicmLx7kBXRmscx6KkEkYaAimn8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## ruffme (Aug 4, 2005)

okkkkk then DONT GOOGLE XXX Climbing harness!!


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> Not trying to be funny but if you can't get the waist belt snug over your hips, you really should consider adding this to keep you in the harness in a head first fall.
> http://www.backcountry.com/black-di...KicmLx7kBXRmscx6KkEkYaAimn8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds




I started with that same chest harness but of the Petzl brand and never could get comfortable with it when putting it under stress. I tried different attachments in the beginning but it always seemed for the lanyard to pull the chest harness down to the waist loop and I didn't like that as it wanted to fold me up like a suitcase.

Afterwards I thought of connecting the chest and waist harness with a short doggone and biners and then attach the lanyard (Beal) to the upper one. This should keep them apart instead of them sliding together but I would need to test it first before hooking it up that way.


----------



## Fendrick (Jun 3, 2013)

redruff said:


> do they make a climbing harness for a real fat arse? ya that would be me.


Check out Misty Mountain. The make one of the largest rock climbing harness I found. My problem was not the waist, but my legs. 

Their standard models go to 42-44 in waist but in order to fit my legs I bought the Gym Dandy model in the largest size that fits up to 52" waist. 

American made and supplies our special forces with gear. Great company to support. Ordering direct from them can be a waiting game as them always seem to be busy. I have two I ordered from them- one took 2weeks, the other 5weeks. I don't believe they keep much on hand and build to order. I believe they do custom work also.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> I started with that same chest harness but of the Petzl brand and never could get comfortable with it when putting it under stress. I tried different attachments in the beginning but it always seemed for the lanyard to pull the chest harness down to the waist loop and* I didn't like that as it wanted to fold me up like a suitcase.*
> 
> Afterwards I thought of connecting the chest and waist harness with a short doggone and biners and then attach the lanyard (Beal) to the upper one. This should keep them apart instead of them sliding together but I would need to test it first before hooking it up that way.


Not sure how it could fold ya up, but it beats the alternative.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> Not sure how it could fold ya up, but it beats the alternative.



Explain to us how you would set them up.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

I haven't needed one. I would simply connect the top to the bottom by connecting through both loops and the belay using the figure 8. Then adjust the shoulder straps.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> I haven't needed one. I would simply connect the top to the bottom by connecting through both loops and the belay using the figure 8. Then adjust the shoulder straps.


So you would make a huge loop in the figure 8 knot? I've done something like that, folds up like a suitcase. So you haven't actually tried it then? Most of us want a dynamic lanyard like a Beal in that situation, the video is for attaching a top rope for a rock climber.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

As I said, I haven't had one on. It appears there is quite a bit of adjustment in the shoulder straps. If there is enough room to adjust the straps down to tie in the figure 8 at the belay loop, that is how I would do it. If it can't be done and my hips can't keep the waist belt in place, I'd be looking for some alternative.:wink:


----------



## hoyt fo life555 (Jan 31, 2005)

A pair of suspenders should hold it up. I have not bought one yet but I have the same problem, no ass to hold even my pants up any more. But I am not fat, just assless.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Suspenders would hold it up, but don't think it would help much in a head first fall.


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

Misty tactical showed up earlier than expected. This thing is very nice!
http://imgur.com/a/en50a


MK1 showed up and some carabiners 

http://imgur.com/a/A5lPI

still waiting on a lanyard and a few other things


----------



## Burtle (Dec 6, 2010)

sorry if double post.

misty tactical showed up earlier than expected 
mk1 and a few carabiners

Still waiting on a lanyard and the actual auto locking cara's


----------



## rebelblue (Aug 30, 2016)

Never going back. No reason not to use a RC harness, IMHO. Easy to put on, simple and cheap ($8) to set up the the rigging, SO much more freedom, quicker to climb with, much better chance of self-rescue, etc. I even thread my Leatherman case right into the belt of the harness (sheaths can get in the way, plus the harness with a belt can get bulky and uncomfy) and hang my Thermacell off of it, too. 

If you're on the fence, go for it. If you aren't, then hop on and re-read the previous sentence


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Yesterday I hung 4 lifelines back up and put new ropes on that secure my climbing sticks. I used my single point attachment Petzl Gym harness (same as the Vario) with 2 lineman;s ropes so I could go around limbs and still have one rope attached. This morning I went back out to adjust one stand and just zipped up the lifeline with the Beal attached.


----------



## MN Doe Hunter (Dec 22, 2003)

I've had a rock harness for a few seasons now, but can someone explain to me the purpose of a dynaclip? I have just been connecting the prussic knot via carabiner to the loop on the front of the harness and tighten/loosen as I stand or sit. I tried finding a dynaclip on REI.com but they don't have them. I also searched for dynamic lanyard, couldn't find one. So I'm not sure what I'm even searching for, nor do I know what the purpose is.

I use the HSS lineman's rope or whatever they call it. I have 2 of them for climbing trees w/branches.


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

MN Doe Hunter said:


> I've had a rock harness for a few seasons now, but can someone explain to me the purpose of a dynaclip? I have just been connecting the prussic knot via carabiner to the loop on the front of the harness and tighten/loosen as I stand or sit. I tried finding a dynaclip on REI.com but they don't have them. I also searched for dynamic lanyard, couldn't find one. So I'm not sure what I'm even searching for, nor do I know what the purpose is.
> 
> I use the HSS lineman's rope or whatever they call it. I have 2 of them for climbing trees w/branches.


I have an extra dynaclip brand new with packaging I'd sell you. My understanding is the tree rope with the prussic is static, meaning no stretch in the case of fall. The dynaclip is dynamic, which allows it to stretch in a fall. My understanding is this is almost like a brake and lessens the sudden stop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

MN Doe Hunter said:


> I've had a rock harness for a few seasons now, but can someone explain to me the purpose of a dynaclip? I have just been connecting the prussic knot via carabiner to the loop on the front of the harness and tighten/loosen as I stand or sit. I tried finding a dynaclip on REI.com but they don't have them. I also searched for dynamic lanyard, couldn't find one. So I'm not sure what I'm even searching for, nor do I know what the purpose is.
> 
> I use the HSS lineman's rope or whatever they call it. I have 2 of them for climbing trees w/branches.


wmn2 is correct, the Beal Dynamic will have some shock absorbing stretch to it if so if you ever do fall it will help to keep your nuts where they are now. If all of your attachments are static and if you fall just a foot or so - which is a long ways in my book - I don't think it will be very pleasant - imo.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> Yesterday I hung 4 lifelines back up and put new ropes on that secure my climbing sticks. I used my single point attachment Petzl Gym harness (same as the Vario) with 2 lineman;s ropes so I could go around limbs and still have one rope attached. This morning I went back out to adjust one stand and just zipped up the lifeline with the Beal attached.


Good looking system TP. Similar to what my son uses doing tree work.:wink:


----------



## Diesel79 (Oct 11, 2015)

When it gets colder and you start using thicker clothing, do you put the waste portion of the harness on the outside of your jacket, or do you keep in under your jacket just over your baselayer?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Diesel79 said:


> When it gets colder and you start using thicker clothing, do you put the waste portion of the harness on the outside of your jacket, or do you keep in under your jacket just over your baselayer?


I wear my RC harness over clothing in both warm or cold weather.


----------



## dillio67 (Oct 1, 2004)

ATAhhshoot said:


> My first time was Tuesday. I bought the Vario Speed Harness and 50cm Beal Dynaclip. I do a larks' foot with the dynaclip through the Vario, then attach that to the caribiner/prussic knot on my HSS tree rope. I was able to slide the prussic to the perfect position to give me plenty of mobility on the stand but also to a safe point where I would not fall more than a foot or so. I put the tree rope almost directly behind my waist when standing. Pros are it's very comfortable, and no annoying tug at your back. Nothing gets in the way and you don't feel like you're wearing any harness at all. I had less metal on metal clanky sounds because there's less metal buckles to contend with also. Cons are the thing is hard to walk to your stand in. Always wants to fall off (I'm thinking of fashioning some velcro straps to hold the harness to my pants belt when walking), and when tightened a lot it will be a bit of a nut-pincher if not loosened back up. Overall a great purchase and I will not be going back to a regular harness.


use tool belt suspenders did that with my tree saddle worked perfect


----------



## Devilfan (Dec 11, 2004)

I apologize in advance if this has been asked and answered before, but instead of attaching your rock harness to your tether with a carabiner clip, can you just tie the tether directly to it and eliminate the one clip?

My system now is lifeline with my tether attached to the lifeline with a carabiner clip on the prussic knot. The tether attaches to my harness with another carabiner.


----------



## bosshog_ (Oct 9, 2016)

Burtle said:


> sorry if double post.
> 
> misty tactical showed up earlier than expected
> mk1 and a few carabiners
> ...


New here - about to order my first RC harness from MM. My question - do you run your carabiner/dynaclip through both attachment points (waist and leg- like you would with a climbing rope) or do you ust tie/clip on to the top attachment point?

Most rc harness pics posted have a single attachment point. I'm wondering how to use the same setup with a harness that has belay loops.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Devilfan said:


> I apologize in advance if this has been asked and answered before, but instead of attaching your rock harness to your tether with a carabiner clip, can you just tie the tether directly to it and eliminate the one clip?
> 
> My system now is lifeline with my tether attached to the lifeline with a carabiner clip on the prussic knot. *The tether attaches to my harness with another carabiner.*


I attach my tether (Beal Dynaclip} to my RC harness via Lark's Foot (girth hitch). People will say that the girth hitch reduces overall strength. Actually "any" knot or bend in a rope reduces it's strength. 

I would trust the girth hitch attachment to the harness strap over the tether attached to the carabiner - climber safety says the bight should be 4 times the diameter of the rope to maintain the rope's strength. A 3/8" rope lanyard over a 3/8" would make me nervous. I turned down 1" Petzl orange rope pulleys and installed them in the lanyard's eye that attaches to the carabiner to increase the bight diameter. 

Not saying this is a must do - it's just what I do.


----------



## bosshog_ (Oct 9, 2016)

tpcollins said:


> I attach my tether (Beal Dynaclip} to my RC harness via Lark's Foot (girth hitch). People will say that the girth hitch reduces overall strength. Actually "any" knot or bend in a rope reduces it's strength.
> 
> I would trust the girth hitch attachment to the harness strap over the tether attached to the carabiner - climber safety says the bight should be 4 times the diameter of the rope to maintain the rope's strength. A 3/8" rope lanyard over a 3/8" would make me nervous. I turned down 1" Petzl orange rope pulleys and installed them in the lanyard's eye that attaches to the carabiner to increase the bight diameter.
> 
> Not saying this is a must do - it's just what I do.


TP- Do you have an rc harness with two tie-in loops or just one? If two, do you attach your dynaclip to both tie-ins?
Specifically looking to get the MM Cadillac and wondering if the dynaclip should be girth-hitched to top tie-in or carabiner through both tie-ins and then clipped to dynaclip. (as asked a couple posts up- just wanted to clarify).

Also - do you sell any modified pulley wheels? that and your prusik look rad.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

bosshog_ said:


> TP- Do you have an rc harness with two tie-in loops or just one? If two, do you attach your dynaclip to both tie-ins?
> Specifically looking to get the MM Cadillac and wondering if the dynaclip should be girth-hitched to top tie-in or carabiner through both tie-ins and then clipped to dynaclip. (as asked a couple posts up- just wanted to clarify).
> 
> Also - do you sell any modified pulley wheels? that and your prusik look rad.


One loop in the center on my Petzl Aspir. No I don't sell any modified pulleys. I ordered them thru REI and turned the sides down on my lathe until I could fit them into the yes on the Beals.

All of the top loops in my lifelines have rope thimbles that I got from Treestuff.com for the same purpose, but they are not as strong as the pulleys.They do increase the bight going over the 1/2" screw links that I have at the top.


----------



## bosshog_ (Oct 9, 2016)

Thanks TP.
One question I still have to those of you with a rc harness that has two tie-in loops (legs/waist) - how are you attaching?

This season will be my first using an rc harness and I just want to get it right. I'm planning on going 
*misty mountain cadillac < MM BAC sling (looped through both tie-ins) < to dynaclip (using girth hitch) < carabiner < tree strap/lifeline.*

sound about right?


----------



## devinesZ (May 2, 2010)

boss do both your tie in meet in a belay loop? Im planning on just clipping my carabiner onto the belay loop as both my leg and waist straps meet there. Its plenty strong for what we are using and doing with them. just my $.02


----------



## wmn2 (Sep 16, 2008)

I use a girth hitch with my dynaclip through both loops.


----------



## manowar669 (Apr 8, 2009)

switched to a RC harness last year, I'll never go back.


----------



## ohiobucks (Dec 27, 2004)

Just in case anyone is looking for a RC harness...
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4379889


----------



## devinesZ (May 2, 2010)

what made you switch back to a muddy?


----------



## ohiobucks (Dec 27, 2004)

devinesZ said:


> what made you switch back to a muddy?


The girth around my mid section...


----------



## LeftemLeakin (Feb 19, 2007)

I bought a Black Diamond Vario and it says "not recommended for people over 250lbs." I'm 6'3" 243lbs. Before my hunting clothes etc. It fits great, Should I return it? I can't find any of them that give a weight rating???


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

LeftemLeakin said:


> I bought a Black Diamond Vario and it says "not recommended for people over 250lbs." I'm 6'3" 243lbs. Before my hunting clothes etc. It fits great, Should I return it? I can't find any of them that give a weight rating???


Same size as you, I feel very safe and have hung from it a few times. Now if I weighed 275lbs I think it would be out of the safe zone. I'm sure for safety purpose they say 250 knowing it should hold more. But if your bigger than 250 and it fails it's on you.


----------



## burdog (Aug 3, 2008)

tagged


----------



## Metameateater (Oct 26, 2012)

I haven't used one yet but I'm ready to try it out got one coming soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

I switched from the black diamond vario to the XL misty mountain gym dandy. I find it much more comfortable. The leg loops drop down lower than the vario does. I also bought a 36 inch rabbit runner and 2 inch tubular webbing. I ran the main strap through the 2 inch webbing and also ran the rabbit runner between the two. Now I have linemans belt loops that work like a champ.


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Liv4Rut said:


> I switched from the black diamond vario to the XL misty mountain gym dandy. I find it much more comfortable. The leg loops drop down lower than the vario does. I also bought a 36 inch rabbit runner and 2 inch tubular webbing. I ran the main strap through the 2 inch webbing and also ran the rabbit runner between the two. Now I have linemans belt loops that work like a champ.




Sounds like a nice setup.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

houser52 said:


> I threaded the waist belt through a length of 2" tubular webbing and then threaded a 30" looped sling through the 2" webbing. Everything is neat and out of the way. I can also remove the sling when not needed. I've used it a lot in the past few weeks and it works great.


You using yale bandit rope?


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

Liv4Rut said:


> I switched from the black diamond vario to the XL misty mountain gym dandy. I find it much more comfortable. The leg loops drop down lower than the vario does. I also bought a 36 inch rabbit runner and 2 inch tubular webbing. I ran the main strap through the 2 inch webbing and also ran the rabbit runner between the two. Now I have linemans belt loops that work like a champ.


I have. Gym dandy XL harness too. 
I like he idea of the 2" webbing and the rabbit runner. I just have 1" tubular webbing and just attached with hair bands. I am going to get 2" and do what you have done. That way, no worries about the webbing sliding away from the harness when using a linemans rope.

Great idea! Thanks.


----------



## Burgmane (Oct 14, 2014)

For those of you that have the MM Gym Dandy, how long did it take to receive your order? I ordered mine off their site direct last week. It said "might take 2-4 weeks", but I'm hoping I get mine in the shorter amount of time, obviously.

For those of you that have 2" tubular, where did you purchase it? I'm striking out online with strapworks being sold out of black and can't seem to find it on other climbing sites (rei, etc).


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

TheTracker said:


> You using yale bandit rope?


Yep, that's Yale Bandit and in addition to using it with the lineman's belt, I also use it for some of my lifelines. I also use New England Fly rope for lifelines too. I've put both under a black light and neither one has the UV glow. Some other ropes I tested look like a glowing LED rope light.


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

Burgmane said:


> For those of you that have the MM Gym Dandy, how long did it take to receive your order? I ordered mine off their site direct last week. It said "might take 2-4 weeks", but I'm hoping I get mine in the shorter amount of time, obviously.
> 
> For those of you that have 2" tubular, where did you purchase it? I'm striking out online with strapworks being sold out of black and can't seem to find it on other climbing sites (rei, etc).


MM took about 10 days, but it wasn't this year that I ordered it.

I just now made an online purchase of blue water 2" and 1" climb spec webbing. Not sure how long it will take. I used 
blackjackmountainoutfitters.com

I did not Google anything bad about them in the minute or two I searched.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Burgmane (Oct 14, 2014)

sojourner said:


> MM took about 10 days, but it wasn't this year that I ordered it.
> 
> I just now made an online purchase of blue water 2" and 1" climb spec webbing. Not sure how long it will take. I used
> blackjackmountainoutfitters.com
> ...


Appreciate the info...of course, right on script, Misty Mountain emailed me that my harness shipped today about an hour after I made this post. Shipped ground, so I'm sure I'll see it in about a week. 

Wound up ordering the webbing from omniprogear dot com, they supplied the 11mm static I ordered off amazon and it was of good quality...so I went through with them. Shipping was expensive, but it's all relative since amazon has spoiled me with the prime shipping! 

Will update and post here once my setup is completed


----------



## houser52 (Apr 26, 2011)

Burgmane said:


> Appreciate the info...of course, right on script, Misty Mountain emailed me that my harness shipped today about an hour after I made this post. Shipped ground, so I'm sure I'll see it in about a week.
> 
> Wound up ordering the webbing from omniprogear dot com, they supplied the 11mm static I ordered off amazon and it was of good quality...so I went through with them. Shipping was expensive, but it's all relative since amazon has spoiled me with the prime shipping!
> 
> Will update and post here once my setup is completed


Congrats on the Gym Dandy. I've used one for 3-4 years now and still like it. I also keep another one as a spare. A great accessory to the harness is their "pad-on" waist pad. It's great when using the harness as a linemans belt. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shimmon83 (Jul 10, 2014)

well I have a few hunts under my belt now with my Misty Mountain Milroc. I hunted southern ohio public land for a weekend of hard hunting and I hunted my own woods once. 

I can say the rock climbing harness is awesome, I wont be going back. 

I did manage to kill a doe wearing the harness on my property. the harness didn't even cross my mind when it was crunch time, I believe the HSS vest would have since my drawing arm would most certainly been in my harness tether. 

I have since recommended the harness to a few hunting buddies, and you cant beat the cost versus a quality hunting type harness!


----------



## sojourner (Apr 6, 2008)

sojourner said:


> MM took about 10 days, but it wasn't this year that I ordered it.
> 
> I just now made an online purchase of blue water 2" and 1" climb spec webbing. Not sure how long it will take. I used
> blackjackmountainoutfitters.com
> ...


FYI, I just received email that my order shipped. Got a USPS tracking number for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mnormand (Sep 9, 2008)

Count me in as a convert, been using a Black Diamond Alpine BOD for a few yrs now.

Also have been using this lineman tether for many yrs on prior harnesses, but just can't recall what it came from... anybody recognize this? 





















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LeftemLeakin (Feb 19, 2007)

mnormand said:


> Count me in as a convert, been using a Black Diamond Alpine BOD for a few yrs now.
> 
> Also have been using this lineman tether for many yrs on prior harnesses, but just can't recall what it came from... anybody recognize this?
> 
> ...



I think I had one of those aloooong time ago. Came with a "safety" waist belt, it clipped to a metal d-ring on the belt. what was on the other end?


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

mnormand said:


> Count me in as a convert, been using a Black Diamond Alpine BOD for a few yrs now.
> 
> Also have been using this lineman tether for many yrs on prior harnesses, but just can't recall what it came from... anybody recognize this?
> 
> ...


It's time for a upgrade.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## KRONIIK (Jun 3, 2014)

^
Yeah that thing looks like it has a built-in "guthook";
not really something I'd want on fall-protection equipment...


----------



## mnormand (Sep 9, 2008)

TheTracker said:


> It's time for a upgrade.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yeah come to think of it, I believe it did come with a waist belt when those were in style. I remember using it for a long time, and clipping for the hunt, on a very short tether. Then you could swivel left and right and the waist belt would turn and the rope always stayed out the way LOL. It was very quiet and I shot a lot of deer with that system. Then I changed to a typical HSS type harness for some years, and then a rock harness.

haha.... you wouldn't believe how well this rope works... part of me wants an upgrade, the other says why, I'd just replace it with another rope and Ropeman ascender which does the same thing. I use it every single hunt, and have high confidence in darkness, etc, after many years of use. As a lineman's belt, it's looped in one side of my harness, and I have a strong lightweight carabiner tied in pointing forward on other side of harness. Just run that buckle around tree and clip in, and pull tag side tighter as needed. One hand operation to quickly tighten or loosen. 

When needed for the hunt tie off, I just run it through the center harness attachment point, then around left waist and back to tree just above sit height using a very short tether as described in this thread. 

The only thing this thread finally encouraged me to change was the addition of a lightweight LW lineman's rope in my small pack for backup and a 2nd tieoff while getting around branches, transitions, etc, to insure 100% hookup at all times. I'm going to get much better about that going forward instead of 95%. Thanks for the push!


----------



## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

Burgmane said:


> For those of you that have the MM Gym Dandy, how long did it take to receive your order? I ordered mine off their site direct last week. It said "might take 2-4 weeks", but I'm hoping I get mine in the shorter amount of time, obviously.
> 
> For those of you that have 2" tubular, where did you purchase it? I'm striking out online with strapworks being sold out of black and can't seem to find it on other climbing sites (rei, etc).


i bought my tubular webbing here. 
http://www.mountaingear.com/webstore/Gear/Climbing/Webbing-cordage/Bluewater/2-inch-Tubular-Webbing/_/R-614002P.htm

I bought my gym dandy from ace adventure and it only took a few days to get it.


----------



## strikerII (Feb 1, 2004)

TheTracker said:


> It's time for a upgrade.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Agreed. I have a similar lineline to this, came with our light brown Gorilla harness years ago. But whenever I use this as a linemans climbing belt, I always use 2, this way. if I go around a limb or getting up into a stand I just hung, I'm always attached with one linesmans belt. This summer, while hanging stands, I had just finished, climbed out of the stand onto a climbing stick with one belt attached to the tree. As I connected the pictured climbing belt around the tree and onto my harness, the little spring connecting the snap clip broke, opening the hook up. If I had only one belt on, this would have caused all the rope to run out from the belt, causing a fall. I built a different linemans belt since.


----------



## bowhuntershawn (Sep 4, 2016)

Not sure what this guy was hunting for but RC harness did its job.


----------



## nflook765 (Dec 12, 2009)

I have done pretty much exactly what Houser52 did (thanks to his idea) with a little bit of a twist. I used the 2" webular tubing with a 30" Weaver light-duty nylon sling. I was able to undo the waist belt of my Petzl Gym harness and thread the belt through the tubular webbing. I also threaded the nylon sling through webbing. To finish it all off, melted a small hole through the tubular webbing, the nylon sling and my waist belt. I put a small bolt and nut on to hold it all in place. Now I have the PERFECT attachment point for my lineman's belt. I will have to take a picture to illustrate.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

nflook765 said:


> I have done pretty much exactly what Houser52 did (thanks to his idea) with a little bit of a twist. I used the 2" webular tubing with a 30" Weaver light-duty nylon sling. I was able to undo the waist belt of my Petzl Gym harness and thread the belt through the tubular webbing. I also threaded the nylon sling through webbing. To finish it all off, melted a small hole through the tubular webbing, the nylon sling and my waist belt. I put a small bolt and nut on to hold it all in place. Now I have the PERFECT attachment point for my lineman's belt. I will have to take a picture to illustrate.


I used 1 Inch tubular webbing for mine. Post a pic of your setup.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## mnormand (Sep 9, 2008)

strikerII said:


> Agreed. I have a similar lineline to this, came with our light brown Gorilla harness years ago. But whenever I use this as a linemans climbing belt, I always use 2, this way. if I go around a limb or getting up into a stand I just hung, I'm always attached with one linesmans belt. This summer, while hanging stands, I had just finished, climbed out of the stand onto a climbing stick with one belt attached to the tree. As I connected the pictured climbing belt around the tree and onto my harness, the little spring connecting the snap clip broke, opening the hook up. If I had only one belt on, this would have caused all the rope to run out from the belt, causing a fall. I built a different linemans belt since.



wow interesting story Striker, thanks for the heads up. Good on you for using 2nd lineman. That is where I need improvement. My rope has a strong molded knot at end to prevent total loss rope run out. And most times I tie a knot up much closer to snap clip to drastically shorten excess run out as needed. Your story reminds me to do this every time, thanks for that. Sounds like same thing could have happened to you with any spring loaded ascender? But I'm not as familiar with those as not actually owned one of the later models. 

You didn't have a jam knot at the end of your line to prevent run out?


----------



## nflook765 (Dec 12, 2009)

First photo of how the linemans belt is hooked up. I take this off once in stand and use as my anchor.

Second photo is just a visual of the nylon sling and how it and the main harness belt are threaded through the tubular webbing.

Third photo is a pic of the bolt with washers and nut holding the nylon sling in place so it doesn't slide around in webbing at all. I actually put the webbing over this bolt and never feel the bolt at all.

Final pic is the blake's hitch instead of prusik.


----------



## Burgmane (Oct 14, 2014)

Finished my setup. Borrowed some ideas from Hhouser and the DIYSportsman guy over on YouTube. Basically a gym dandy with a sling I made myself out of 1" tubular (I'm a big guy and wanted to customize its length), ran a short piece of static inside each loop to give them structure and make it easier to attach carabiners. 2" webbing over all that, actually gives the waist belt some cushion which is nice. Finish it off with 11mm static linemans strap and a ropeman ascender.

As an aside: omniprogear (website/ store based in Colorado) will sell you 11mm static "shorts" for $25. It's a grab bag as you can't specify color or length at checkout, but I got 42feet in this lime green color I made the linemans belt out of. Not a bad idea if you want to make your own lifelines or have use for short sections of static. Saved about $25 over the 50ft roll of the same stuff I bought on amazon a week ago, minus 8 feet. I'll take it.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

anyone on here with a vario speed harness make a lineman belt for it yet? getting a hangon and steps and need one now.


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

sawtoothscream said:


> anyone on here with a vario speed harness make a lineman belt for it yet? getting a hangon and steps and need one now.


At the moment I just run a section of 11mm rope with figure 8 loop on each end and cone to to my front loop with a single biner.. Not the best but it works. Heading out to my shed to see what I can rig up with some webbing to make it better. Just moved a stand today this way. Back in an hour or so.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

sawtoothscream said:


> anyone on here with a vario speed harness make a lineman belt for it yet? getting a hangon and steps and need one now.


I use 2 here so I can undo one to go up around a limb and still stay connected with the bottom one. Once the top is secure I undo the bottom one and move it up.


The video of the guy falling was interesting - I noticed he was able to trap the rope right in front of him before the slack was removed - we don't have that much time!


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Well played with some webbing I removed from one of those harnesses they give you with a stand. Got one section with sewn loops and adjustment buckles on both ends, Was able to weave in through waist buckle and rear loop. Nothing on the left side of a Vario to weave it through so I used a biner coming off the left side of the loop. Will try it out tomorrow and see how it does.


----------



## Burgmane (Oct 14, 2014)

vito9999 said:


> Well played with some webbing I removed from one of those harnesses they give you with a stand. Got one section with sewn loops and adjustment buckles on both ends, Was able to weave in through waist buckle and rear loop. Nothing on the left side of a Vario to weave it through so I used a biner coming off the left side of the loop. Will try it out tomorrow and see how it does


Just be careful, make sure all that setup is rated to take a load and the tag end on your harness can't pass back thru the buckle under a load. I'd really consider getting some 2" tubular...it's cheap...and sliding it over the waist belt as a sleeve for another strap to pass thru. Tubular Webbing is cheap and climbers use it all the time for slings, tie offs, etc. Just make sure whatever you rig up is rated to take a real life as a load.


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

Burgmane said:


> Just be careful, make sure all that setup is rated to take a load and the tag end on your harness can't pass back thru the buckle under a load. I'd really consider getting some 2" tubular...it's cheap...and sliding it over the waist belt as a sleeve for another strap to pass thru. Tubular Webbing is cheap and climbers use it all the time for slings, tie offs, etc. Just make sure whatever you rig up is rated to take a real life as a load.



Will still be connected with to my life line via prussic, not crazy only going up a few feet to to see of it works.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

nflook765 said:


> Final pic is the blake's hitch instead of prusik.



Is this for your use as a lineman's belt or your lifeline fall restraint? The friction knot cordage looks to be the same diameter as the main line. In terms of millimeters, most suggest a 3mm difference between the two - 7mm - 10mm, 8mm - 11mm, etc. If it's an optical illusion and the blake's is actually smaller then good. Personaly I'd use a figure 8 loop knot to the carabiner instead of the overhand but hopefully it holds up if needed.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

tpcollins said:


> I use 2 here so I can undo one to go up around a limb and still stay connected with the bottom one. Once the top is secure I undo the bottom one and move it up.
> 
> 
> The video of the guy falling was interesting - I noticed he was able to trap the rope right in front of him before the slack was removed - we don't have that much time!


tried this today with my climbing sticks. Didnt work out for me, hangs up on the sticks in the front.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

anyone know if that loop on the back is load rated? seems like you could put 1" webbing through it and make the loops for the linemans belt that way.


----------



## Burgmane (Oct 14, 2014)

sawtoothscream said:


> anyone know if that loop on the back is load rated? seems like you could put 1" webbing through it and make the loops for the linemans belt that way.


Which loop on which harness? Often a rated loop will have a tag or marking on or near it to note its rating. If not, you can check the manufacture spec's on the harness (owners guide or website). From what I understand (not an expert, just perusing the web) SOME of these harnesses have a rear rated loop for reverse rappelling (or some such phrase) but it isn't common.


----------



## Stab 'em (Dec 26, 2008)

Wow, I haven't seen this thread in a long time. It has really grown and evolved over the years to keep you guys comfortable and safe. Good to see too! Remember, only use shock load rated ropes for your tethers and life lines; none of that cheap imported crap you find at a hardware or farm supply store either.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Stab 'em said:


> Wow, I haven't seen this thread in a long time. It has really grown and evolved over the years to keep you guys comfortable and safe. Good to see too! *Remember, only use shock load rated ropes for your tethers and life lines; none of that cheap imported crap you find at a hardware or farm supply store either.*


Great point. When I first started using a lifeline with my Tree Spider harness, I used some 3/8" rope from an army surplus store thinking it was sufficient. Once I started looking into RC harness, I soon discovered my lifeline rope wasn't as strong as I thought. All my stands now have 11.4mm Bluewater Assaultline now, my old 3/8" is still in the tree but is what I use to pull my bow up with now.


----------



## nflook765 (Dec 12, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> Is this for your use as a lineman's belt or your lifeline fall restraint? The friction knot cordage looks to be the same diameter as the main line. In terms of millimeters, most suggest a 3mm difference between the two - 7mm - 10mm, 8mm - 11mm, etc. If it's an optical illusion and the blake's is actually smaller then good. Personaly I'd use a figure 8 loop knot to the carabiner instead of the overhand but hopefully it holds up if needed.


It is my linemans and my anchor. A figure 8 would definitely be better, but gets into some serious bulk. The overhand should suffice. The blakes hitch is 2mm smaller and definitely bites well.


----------



## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

I tried the harnesss thing for about an hour.. couldn't do it. Rock climbing harness is option B for me. Option A is a riggers belt strapped to the tree.

the ONLY downside of a rock climbing harness is that the legs take away your pockets and feels a bit restrictive. Otherwise not bad at all. Where as these newer hunting harnesses you'd have to be into some weird S&M stuff to stand it


----------



## ejk03 (Sep 24, 2013)

I have very little room to talk on this matter. I often forget or am too lazy to put on my hunter safety system. My question is why hasn't the hunting world took this trend of the rock climbing harness? In the hunting industry its all about marketing but i have yet to see it.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

ejk03 said:


> I have very little room to talk on this matter. I often forget or am too lazy to put on my hunter safety system. My question is why hasn't the hunting world took this trend of the rock climbing harness? In the hunting industry its all about marketing but i have yet to see it.


Probably not worth it when you have so many options already out there from really cheap to expensive.


----------



## mnormand (Sep 9, 2008)

ejk03 said:


> I have very little room to talk on this matter. I often forget or am too lazy to put on my hunter safety system. My question is why hasn't the hunting world took this trend of the rock climbing harness? In the hunting industry its all about marketing but i have yet to see it.



After a few years using it, I wouldn't exactly say the rock harness is necessarily easier or faster than some of the better full tangle free full harnesses. But I much prefer it for many reasons. I don't tighten the leg straps so tight that I can't slip my phone in/out pockets, etc. Just semi snug works for me. 

The TMA http://www.tmastands.com/ certainly has some ground rules as established by their board of directors, members, attorneys, insurance companies, etc. I don't think anyone could argue with the efforts put out across the board by this group regarding stands, fall restraint systems, etc have made hunters more aware of their own safety and prevented innumerable accidents.


----------



## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

ejk03 said:


> I have very little room to talk on this matter. I often forget or am too lazy to put on my hunter safety system. My question is why hasn't the hunting world took this trend of the rock climbing harness? In the hunting industry its all about marketing but i have yet to see it.


Because there's a ton of RC setups out there and you can get them pretty cheaply. The big hunting companies couldn't make big profits


----------



## bosshog_ (Oct 9, 2016)

Burtle said:


> sorry if double post.
> 
> misty tactical showed up earlier than expected
> mk1 and a few carabiners
> ...


How was it?
My MM tac just came in. Getting the dynaclip girth hitched around the loops is tiiiggghhhhhtt. 
Definitely seems like it's easier for the harnesses that have only one loop (where belay loop goes).


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

bosshog_ said:


> How was it?
> My MM tac just came in. Getting the dynaclip girth hitched around the loops is tiiiggghhhhhtt.
> Definitely seems like it's easier for the harnesses that have only one loop (where belay loop goes).


Let's see a pic of what you're doing.


----------



## bosshog_ (Oct 9, 2016)

tpcollins said:


> Let's see a pic of what you're doing.


This forum still wont allow me to post links or photos. Here's a quick picture I just snapped. It's not hyperlinked so you'll have to add the http and c/p the rest.

imgur.com/a/ARND4


----------



## bosshog_ (Oct 9, 2016)

tpcollins said:


> Let's see a pic of what you're doing.


I sent you a PM with link.


----------



## chuckdslayer (Jul 8, 2012)

Not sure if it would work for hunting applications but I think it would. At the least it gives you another option.

https://youtu.be/qp4p-KU5LWU


----------



## chuckdslayer (Jul 8, 2012)

Looking at ordering static line to go around the tree for the tree tether as seen in several YouTube videos in this thread. What are the pros and cons of getting an eye sewn into one end of the 11' foot 11mm rope? I was cruising treestuff dot com and saw I can order static line by the foot and get an eye sewn into one end. Any thoughts if it would be better than tying knots?


----------



## Seadonist (Jan 5, 2015)

chuckdslayer said:


> Looking at ordering static line to go around the tree for the tree tether as seen in several YouTube videos in this thread. What are the pros and cons of getting an eye sewn into one end of the 11' foot 11mm rope? I was cruising treestuff dot com and saw I can order static line by the foot and get an eye sewn into one end. Any thoughts if it would be better than tying knots?


Easier to tie a knot and works perfectly fine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chuckdslayer (Jul 8, 2012)

Plus cheaper than paying for a sewn in eye


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

chuckdslayer said:


> Plus cheaper than paying for a sewn in eye


Absolutely, sewn knots cost more than the rope itself.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

chuckdslayer said:


> Looking at ordering static line to go around the tree for the tree tether as seen in several YouTube videos in this thread. What are the pros and cons of getting an eye sewn into one end of the 11' foot 11mm rope? I was cruising treestuff dot com and saw I can order static line by the foot and get an eye sewn into one end. Any thoughts if it would be better than tying knots?


Do a double overhand on a bight.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## devinesZ (May 2, 2010)

just remember that any knot you tie, especially on 11mm rope, takes up some serious length. I'd buy the rope longer then you want the finished product to be, tie your knots and then trim the excess. I also put a single over hand near the bottom, just to ensure it cant slip out of my prussic. No free ends hanging around


----------



## flinginairos (Jan 3, 2006)

chuckdslayer said:


> Looking at ordering static line to go around the tree for the tree tether as seen in several YouTube videos in this thread. What are the pros and cons of getting an eye sewn into one end of the 11' foot 11mm rope? I was cruising treestuff dot com and saw I can order static line by the foot and get an eye sewn into one end. Any thoughts if it would be better than tying knots?


Sewn or spliced eye is a lot less bulky than a knot and it's actually stronger. I splice all the eyes in my tethers myself and they pack down so much smaller than a knot. I hunt from a treesaddle though and I use two ropes, one for tether and the other for a linemans so having the spliced eyes makes it nice when I roll them up and put them in my pouch. Not needed at all really just a preference thing.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

TheTracker said:


> Do a double overhand on a bight.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


How does a double overhand knot compare strength wise to the figure 8 loop knot? I suspend my lifelines from a 1/2" screw link but all of the loops have a rope thimble to increase the bight diameter on my setups.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

mnormand said:


> After a few years using it, I wouldn't exactly say the rock harness is necessarily easier or faster than some of the better full tangle free full harnesses. But I much prefer it for many reasons. I don't tighten the leg straps so tight that I can't slip my phone in/out pockets, etc. Just semi snug works for me.
> 
> The TMA http://www.tmastands.com/ certainly has some ground rules as established by their board of directors, members, attorneys, insurance companies, etc. I don't think anyone could argue with the efforts put out across the board by this group regarding stands, fall restraint systems, etc have made hunters more aware of their own safety and prevented innumerable accidents.


*The TMA has certainly made the hunting world a much safer place than it as 30 years ago.* The TMA rules as established by the board members," manufacturers of tree stands and safety harnesses," Started out by setting standards to improve stands, so as a group they could get better insurance rates. There are a lot of stands out there today that exceed TMA but are not TMA approved. Money and politics do play here too. If you were getting thousands of dollars from each full body harness company for quite a few years and still wanting to get this money, would you all of a sudden say, I found a better system. A rock climbing harness is way better than a full body harness. That statement from the TMA, would cost them a ton of money.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> How does a double overhand knot compare strength wise to the figure 8 loop knot? I suspend my lifelines from a 1/2" screw link but all of the loops have a rope thimble to increase the bight diameter on my setups.


I found this searching google. Its a double overhand on itself but i couldn't find any on a bight for testing!
http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/46/doitie.html


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

TheTracker said:


> I found this searching google. Its a double overhand on itself but i couldn't find any on a bight for testing!
> http://caves.org/section/vertical/nh/46/doitie.html


I saw something similar to that online when I looked it up. For me, the figure 8 loop knot is easy whether I tie by overlapping it or use the "go around the shoulder and poke the monkey in the eye" method and just retrace it. I think one of the biggest misses we could be overlooking as new RC harness uses is the rope,lanyard, Dynaclip or whatever going over the bight diameter. 

Per safety rules, the bight should be 4 times the diameter of the rope to maintain it's strength. That would mean if you're using a 3/8" diameter Beal as your lanyard, the carabiner should have a shank diameter of 1 1/2" to prevent the possibility of the rope breaking there compared to anywhere else. That's why I turned down the orange Petzl 1" pulleys and put them in my Dynaclip - it's not 1 1/2" but 1" is better than a 3/8" diameter carabiner shank!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

*75,000 views. 1 who insist its a horrible idea, yet has never tried it. Guess he missed the 1st post. One who quite obviously was using it wrong, wrapped around his legs. One who was just a little too big and that is O.K.. At least he tried. The rest, at one time used a full body harness so they were familiar with how they felt and worked. They changed to r/c and will not be changing back. Seems most who compared the two, agree that for hunting out of a tree stand a rock climbing harness is a good way to go.*:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Good point Jim. My biggest concern is that some of those that switch may not be aware of the little things that can contribute to a comfortable fall versus one that really hurts - such as the use of proper knots, friction cordage and friction knots, proper rope strength ratings, the need for some dynamic lanyard as a fall restraint somewhere between the RC harness and lifeline.

I'm still on the fence, even knowing the possibility of suspension trauma - whether a properly hooked up traditional 4-point harness could still be better than some half-assed attempt of a RC harness system improperly set up.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Both can get you killed if not properly tied in. I have never heard of HSS or SOP lifeline or tether or prussik breaking and they have millions using them. That is why I use their lifelines and tethers. I know yours are much safer. Heck you could hang a Volkswagen from most of your set up's. I am quite aware it is your butt up there, and if that is what it takes, I say use what makes you most confident. 
Both set up the same, and a fall causing a knock out, which is a very good possibility, I'll stay with the r/c.:wink:


----------



## devinesZ (May 2, 2010)

RC all the way, so glad I made the switch. I did my homework and made my own tethers, prussic, and chose the biners I felt most comfortable with. With anything its the confidence in your equipment that makes you feel safe. I've tested all of my stuff from low levels as well, feels strange to "fall" out of the stand the first time--on purpose haha. I love the thread boys, keep it up!


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

chuckdslayer said:


> Not sure if it would work for hunting applications but I think it would. At the least it gives you another option.
> 
> https://youtu.be/qp4p-KU5LWU


What he did there will work fine for a lineman's belt, however the metal rings might make some noise while on stand. Either cover them when not being used or just use the strap and tie loops in the ends without the rings. It will be slightly harder to attach while on the tree, but it should hold fine.:teeth:


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

thirdhandman said:


> What he did there will work fine for a lineman's belt, however the metal rings might make some noise while on stand. Either cover them when not being used or just use the strap and tie loops in the ends without the rings. It will be slightly harder to attach while on the tree, but it should hold fine.:teeth:


Just wrap the rings in electrical tape.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## chuckdslayer (Jul 8, 2012)

My thinking was an alternative for the linemans belt.

I've got my rope ordered, sling ordered, webbing ordered, carabiners ordered, ropeman ordered. Forgot to order some accessory cord to make prusik knots, but that's no big deal. Only other item left to get is a harness and deciding which one to get is my only dilemma I've got left.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

For a climbing belt this is what I use. It will fit through gear loops if you wanted to use it in conjunction with a rc harness.:secret:


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

For the cell tower climbers and any one else interested. According to the narrator of this video showing a guy climbing the worlds tallest tower, *OSHA allows a front waist connection harness used in the video and doesn't even require them to use it called free climbing.* He says most climbers use the free climbing method. At 1:45 to 2:15 seconds he discusses this. If front waist connection are good at 1700 feet they should work 20' up. Enjoy the video!


----------



## B-RadZ (Oct 14, 2014)

This year I ditched the climbing harness for a retention strap and riggers belt. Same way we used to clip ourselves into choppers and other random moving vehicles. I'm much happier with it.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

B-Radz : Terry Halverson from Silent Slide had sold that system for 30 years without a single failure. That works while sitting on stand and hooked up. The problem is only 15% of the accidents occur while sitting on stand. 85% happen while climbing up, getting into stand, getting out of stand and climbing down.


----------



## duda (Dec 30, 2007)

thirdhandman said:


> For the cell tower climbers and any one else interested. According to the narrator of this video showing a guy climbing the worlds tallest tower, *OSHA allows a front waist connection harness used in the video and doesn't even require them to use it called free climbing.* He says most climbers use the free climbing method. At 1:45 to 2:15 seconds he discusses this. If front waist connection are good at 1700 feet they should work 20' up. Enjoy the video!


Oh man I forgot the ratchet, can you climb down and get it from the truck?


----------



## soutthpaw (Jan 4, 2017)

I haven't hunted but i use a CNC Rescue harness for SAR and climbing, very comfortable for hanging for long periods of time. they make a removable chest harness that ties into the belt. I have the pro series. http://www.cmcrescue.com/c/harnesses/


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

thirdhandman said:


> For the cell tower climbers and any one else interested. According to the narrator of this video showing a guy climbing the worlds tallest tower, *OSHA allows a front waist connection harness used in the video and doesn't even require them to use it called free climbing.* He says most climbers use the free climbing method. At 1:45 to 2:15 seconds he discusses this. If front waist connection are good at 1700 feet they should work 20' up. Enjoy the video!


You really are a complete idiot...

You know he was fined for this video?

Again, stick to making cheap archery accessories, and stop talking safety, you haven't a clue...


----------



## Seadonist (Jan 5, 2015)

thirdhandman said:


> For the cell tower climbers and any one else interested. According to the narrator of this video showing a guy climbing the worlds tallest tower, *OSHA allows a front waist connection harness used in the video and doesn't even require them to use it called free climbing.* He says most climbers use the free climbing method. At 1:45 to 2:15 seconds he discusses this. If front waist connection are good at 1700 feet they should work 20' up. Enjoy the video!


Not enough money in the world to get me to do that job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

Seadonist said:


> Not enough money in the world to get me to do that job


Ain't that the truth! After crapping my pants I'd probably pass out. I take my lifelines, harness, and attachments so seriously for only going 20' up, I would never be able let go of the rungs going up that thing.


----------



## Liv4Rut (Mar 24, 2006)

Seadonist said:


> Not enough money in the world to get me to do that job
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I felt nauseous just watching that, wow!! No way I could do that.


----------



## tpcowfish (Aug 11, 2008)

^^^ no way, and thats got to be illegal, climbing like that


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

tpcowfish said:


> ^^^ no way, and thats got to be illegal, climbing like that


It's legal.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

TheTracker said:


> It's legal.



No, it isnt.... Again, he was fined for that... I have very good inside knowledge since thats how Ive made a living for the last 20yrs...


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> No, it isnt.... Again, he was fined for that... I have very good inside knowledge since thats how Ive made a living for the last 20yrs...


What's the name of the guy that was fined? I found the article and nowhere in it does it say he was fined for it.
http://m.ehstoday.com/blog/stairway-osha-citation
I looked and it said osha does not condone free climbing but I cannot find anything saying it's illegal. Have any osha links?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> You really are a complete idiot...
> 
> You know he was fined for this video?
> 
> Again, stick to making cheap archery accessories, and stop talking safety, you haven't a clue...


EJP Have not seen anywhere that he was fined. Please try to hold the insults to a minimum. There are quite a few people on this site that will disagree with your assessment of our products. At 7 minutes in this video you can clearly see that the whole time on the tower he was connected in front just like the r/c harness. The red strap off the shoulder harness is connected to the work bucket. That makes sense as the weight would carry much easier on the shoulders. Both videos the climbers were connected in front like a RC harness.


----------



## Krazo (Dec 15, 2012)

Jim I'm sure you know there's always one in the crowd. Sometimes more on the inter web. 

Not to get off topic but I for one am a big fan of THA products. Very functional & the straps are a great safety feature.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP: I understand that you are a professional tower climber. I do get that. By Osha rules you are not allowed to climb the tower by yourself for a reason. Self rescue when connected between the shoulders can be tough. As shown in these videos being attached in front while climbing is the way. 85% of accidents in tree stands happen while climbing up, climbing in, climbing out and climbing down. All of which the hunter is facing the tree. So may I suggest the tower stand safety, is connected to the tower from in front, similar to the r/c harness, only we don't have a 25 pound bucket strapped to our shoulders while climbing and somebody to help us if there is a problem.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> You really are a complete idiot...
> 
> You know he was fined for this video?
> 
> Again, stick to making cheap archery accessories, and stop talking safety, you haven't a clue...


Was that really necessary? I reported you, that way you know it was me that did it. Enjoy.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP: 50 pages and you are the only one who admittedly doesn't agree. But you still haven tried a R/C harness for hunting. I seriously doubt you are using your $500 tower climbing harness for hunting either. There is similarities climbing towers, tying in the front of the harness. But we hunt by ourselves, so self rescue is paramount. Suspension trauma is real and is way less likely when connected in front. So if you want, hunt with your full body harness and start your own thread. Please don't tell 50 pages of hunters how much smarter than them , you are.:wink:


----------



## jmclfrsh (Dec 23, 2014)

Jim, I have been planning on buying a Black Diamond Vario based on your recommendation and I just got one. I like it. I then bought the Vario chest harness also, which will come in handy when hanging stands.

One thing that made me do it right now was I was reading on Sitka Gear's website about one of their sponsored hunters in Alaska. He is a guide as well. This guy is no joke. He walks for miles with his bow on one hip and his stand in the other so his hands are free for glassing and has trees in certain areas with the steps already screwed into the trees. But they are a very long hike away. Miles.

He mentioned he used a "seat type harness" so he could shed layers at will. And since I've been buying up Sitka gear this year, that made perfect sense. Now I can change layers up top just by standing up. No disconnecting anything!

I'm in my second year of bowhunting and just bought my first climber and a hang on, too. Although I own three upright harnesses, one I don't like, a second that is lighter, simpler and better, and a third (a vest that looks great but I've never even had it out of the plastic tote they all are in) I'd rather start off with a RC harness from the start. 

I bought a Treestand Wingman and will continue to use it with my RC harness. I plan on never becoming a victim of suspension trauma unless something like a medical happens to get me in that position in the first place. 

As long as I've lived, 56 years, and all the craziness I've survived - I should have been dead long ago for several reasons - I'll be damned if I die hanging in a freakin' tree. People would not believe it.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

jmclfrsh said:


> Jim, I have been planning on buying a Black Diamond Vario based on your recommendation and I just got one. I like it. I then bought the Vario chest harness also, which will come in handy when hanging stands.
> 
> One thing that made me do it right now was I was reading on Sitka Gear's website about one of their sponsored hunters in Alaska. He is a guide as well. This guy is no joke. He walks for miles with his bow on one hip and his stand in the other so his hands are free for glassing and has trees in certain areas with the steps already screwed into the trees. But they are a very long hike away. Miles.
> 
> ...


Don't forget to buy some 1 inch tubular webbing and some rappel rings and make yourself a linemans belt for the harness!


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)




----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

TheTracker said:


> Don't forget to buy some 1 inch tubular webbing and some rappel rings and make yourself a linemans belt for the harness!


Have a picture of your setup?


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

sawtoothscream said:


> Have a picture of your setup?


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Seadonist said:


> Not enough money in the world to get me to do that job
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would love to climb that, wouldn't be free climbing though. Also would want to parachute off it instead of the long climb down.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

TheTracker said:


>


Was hoping you had the Vario, trying to figure out how to attach the webbing for the lineman. Don't think the loop in back is rated. At least I can't find anything. 

Looks like a nice setup, what harness is that?


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

sawtoothscream said:


> Was hoping you had the Vario, trying to figure out how to attach the webbing for the lineman. Don't think the loop in back is rated. At least I can't find anything.
> 
> Looks like a nice setup, what harness is that?


Black diamond big gun harness! Just take some 5-6mm climbing cord and tie pieces around the main belt to act like belt loops on a pair of jeans then fish the tubular webbing through it and feed it through the main front loop and tie it off! This would work and its rated to 5.5 Kilonewtons! 
https://www.rei.com/product/716224/pmi-accessory-cord-5mm


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

TheTracker said:


> Black diamond big gun harness! Just take some 5-6mm climbing cord and tie pieces around the main belt to act like belt loops on a pair of jeans then fish the tubular webbing through it and feed it through the main front loop and tie it off! This would work and its rated to 5.5 Kilonewtons!
> https://www.rei.com/product/716224/pmi-accessory-cord-5mm


Well that was easy lol. Think I still have some 7mm left over.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

sawtoothscream said:


> Well that was easy lol. Think I still have some 7mm left over.


7mm might be kinda thick and might cause you some discomfort when sitting into the harness, Best bet might be to use some paracord. Its small and strong and the loops won't be used for load bearing just to keep the tubular webbing in place! Maybe use 1 piece of 7mm at the back of the harness to help with load bearing hookup from behind in case of a fall but you probably wouldn't need it!


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Need more webbing anyways, probably just order some 5 mm and play around. Thanks


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

[video]https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrBT6IU9X1YBKIAs4N XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzZDcyNzk0BGN vbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDREZEN l8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=making+a+lin emans+belt+on+a+rc+harness&fr=mcafee&fr2=piv-web#id=15&vid=5ade1efdd7cdea525f24bcb38f 2b9b5f&action=view[/video]


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

thirdhandman said:


> EJP: I understand that you are a professional tower climber. I do get that. By Osha rules you are not allowed to climb the tower by yourself for a reason. Self rescue when connected between the shoulders can be tough. As shown in these videos being attached in front while climbing is the way. 85% of accidents in tree stands happen while climbing up, climbing in, climbing out and climbing down. All of which the hunter is facing the tree. So may I suggest the tower stand safety, is connected to the tower from in front, similar to the r/c harness, only we don't have a 25 pound bucket strapped to our shoulders while climbing and somebody to help us if there is a problem.


Once again, you havent a clue what your talking about.... Just like the last post I cited you on... Why where they using a linemans belt in the video tracker posted? Maybe its because they were actually on an antenna itself and it doesnt have the required rating for an impact? Its a very rare case its acceptable... Again... How about you stop citing anything to do with my industry, just like posting stair way to heaven an running with the gospel, it shows your "facts" are "jokes" because everything in that video is wrong, our industry spoke out against it big time, and he was fined.

Im not going to get and post where he was fined, because it has the gentlemans personal information in it, and it essentially ruined his career/life as it is...


----------



## hawkdriver55 (Sep 6, 2010)

Never going back to a Hunting harness. I used a R/C harness this year and loved it. Less weight, more freedom of movement and the rope/strap that secures you to the tree is low and out of the way. You can shoot left or right and never have the strap getting in the way of the shot.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> Once again, you havent a clue what your talking about.... Just like the last post I cited you on... Why where they using a linemans belt in the video tracker posted? Maybe its because they were actually on an antenna itself and it doesnt have the required rating for an impact? Its a very rare case its acceptable... Again... How about you stop citing anything to do with my industry, just like posting stair way to heaven an running with the gospel, it shows your "facts" are "jokes" because everything in that video is wrong, our industry spoke out against it big time, and he was fined.
> 
> Im not going to get and post where he was fined, because it has the gentlemans personal information in it, and it essentially ruined his career/life as it is...



Instead of going off on a tangent and calling names, why not answer some questions that may legitimately help.
When climbing a tower, does osha require 2 people or is it ok for one to climb the tower in the video by themself? Does a tree have the required rating for impact. Why do the tower video's show front connections while climbing? They are in full body harnesses. It appears to me that they use the back connection to haul the tools using their shoulders. Is that correct?


----------



## mnormand (Sep 9, 2008)

jmclfrsh said:


> And since I've been buying up Sitka gear this year, that made perfect sense. Now I can change layers up top just by standing up. No disconnecting anything!



haha I got that Sitka bug recently too. It was fun watching all the sites for good used gear. Pretty much got what I needed now, at great prices. Boy that is nice stuff, love the way it's cut for archery especially. 


You are so correct...being able to change top layers as needed is so nice. Way back I used only an old time belt strap and tether for a lot of years. If nothing else that was kinda cool being able to turn 360deg and the belt would stay in same position while your body turned inside it, haha. Then as soon as I tried a full shoulder harness I hated it for those reasons. Jumped on the RC harness some years ago, never looked back.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

TheTracker said:


>


WOW! I wonder how much that harness weighs? For me, I wouldn't want to hike very far with it.


----------



## fly1 (Mar 17, 2009)

I am a rock climber and tree stand hunter. I've had MANY falls out climbing while in one of my rock climbing harness's and (depending on the type of fall) can end up upside down at times since the attachment is at my waist. After 30 years I've never had a fall from a tree stand but from testing my HSS harness I've come to the conclusion that it's not likely one would end up upside down. In addition I prefer the attachment point at the back of my collar when bow hunting.


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

fly1 said:


> I am a rock climber and tree stand hunter. I've had MANY falls out climbing while in one of my rock climbing harness's and (depending on the type of fall) can end up upside down at times since the attachment is at my waist. After 30 years I've never had a fall from a tree stand but from testing my HSS harness I've come to the conclusion that it's not likely one would end up upside down. In addition I prefer the attachment point at the back of my collar when bow hunting.


So how far did you fall in your RC harness when climbing? If I recall, the correct way to attach to a RC harness is to run a figure 8 loop thru the leg strap and the waist strap - avoiding the belay loop. When I look at that setup, the rope loop should pull up on the leg strap connection first before it bottoms out at the waist strap. To me, this would promote the fall into a sitting position - and with enough force could tip one back and perhaps upside down. 

This could be why both Jim and I prefere the single waist loop variety harnesses - his favorite is the BD Vario, I prefer the Petzl Aspir. I would think these type harnesses promote a more vertical drop, which if I fall facing towards the tree or my climbing sticks, I'd rather be in a more vertical position. For those with a traditional RC harness, I suggest hanging from it (with a friend next to you) to see how it hangs. Then attach to just the upper waist loop only "JUST TO GET AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENCE IN BALANCE ONLY". I am no way in suggesting that you hunt with it that way (but if I had to I'd route the rope much differently for tree stand use).

I don't plan to drop very far with this amount of slack in the lanyard between my harness and lifeline when seated. Be safe!


----------



## chesnut oak (Dec 5, 2009)

Tagged


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

thirdhandman said:


> Instead of going off on a tangent and calling names, why not answer some questions that may legitimately help.
> When climbing a tower, does osha require 2 people or is it ok for one to climb the tower in the video by themself? Does a tree have the required rating for impact. Why do the tower video's show front connections while climbing? They are in full body harnesses. It appears to me that they use the back connection to haul the tools using their shoulders. Is that correct?


Osha does not require 2 people to climb.

No a tree doesn't have a required rating that I know, but if you look at the video I am referring too you will see a fiberglass shell..... not the smartest thing to use as a 5k rating as per the requirement.

I'm not sure what your referring to for the front tie off... If a cable slide, yes, but its incorporated into a very large steel d-ring that has webbing that actually ties into the rear, but is only to be used while mobile. If your referring to them using the line mans feature, again this is only allowed in very very few situations... 

As far as what your asking me about the tools, it is hard to decipher your question, but no, they do not use the d ring on their back to haul tools... they would use the d-ring on their sides, but very rarely does anyone climb with a grunt bag.

Again, you can tout all you want on your unfounded comments about the safety with an RC harness... but do not talk about my industry like you are in the know, because you have zero experience with it, and you will make yourself out to be a tool bag even more so than you have already done.


----------



## fly1 (Mar 17, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> So how far did you fall in your RC harness when climbing? If I recall, the correct way to attach to a RC harness is to run a figure 8 loop thru the leg strap and the waist strap - avoiding the belay loop. When I look at that setup, the rope loop should pull up on the leg strap connection first before it bottoms out at the waist strap. To me, this would promote the fall into a sitting position - and with enough force could tip one back and perhaps upside down.
> 
> This could be why both Jim and I prefere the single waist loop variety harnesses - his favorite is the BD Vario, I prefer the Petzl Aspir. I would think these type harnesses promote a more vertical drop, which if I fall facing towards the tree or my climbing sticks, I'd rather be in a more vertical position. For those with a traditional RC harness, I suggest hanging from it (with a friend next to you) to see how it hangs. Then attach to just the upper waist loop only "JUST TO GET AN IDEA OF THE DIFFERENCE IN BALANCE ONLY". I am no way in suggesting that you hunt with it that way (but if I had to I'd route the rope much differently for tree stand use).
> 
> I don't plan to drop very far with this amount of slack in the lanyard between my harness and lifeline when seated. Be safe!


Hello tpcollins, indeed the RC harness is lighter and has advantages. I have a couple Vision harnesses but generally use my BD when climbing. One must decide what works best for him/her given it is safe. Most of my falls are only 5-10 feet but I've had a few that have been around 20. Granted these falls are with a dynamic rope not a static line which is what I use while hunting. I would say most of the falls that flip me upside down are 10+ feet but with a static line it might flip you with a shorter fall. When climbing I run my climbing rope through both loops of the harness as opposed to the belay loop (as you mentioned). If the connection point could be made in the back of the harness instead of the front I might consider using it. One thing I really don't like is pulling back my bow and having the safety line resting on my elbow or forearm - I therefore try to get the rope I attach my harness to wrapped in the tree a few feet above my head while standing and then use the prusik knot to adjust for a standing or sitting shot which keeps the safety line at my shoulders and out of the way when I draw. I think both harnesses are safe when used correctly so it comes down to personal preference.


----------



## burdog (Aug 3, 2008)

tagged


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

fly1 said:


> Granted these falls are with a dynamic rope not a static line which is what I use while hunting. I would say most of the falls that flip me upside down are 10+ feet but with a static line it might flip you with a shorter fall.


My lifeline is static, I would think my friction knot rope is static as well. But the green lanyard in post #1001 is my dynamic Beal Dynaclip that connects between the harness and friction knot. I have both the 75cm and 50cm Dynaclips and each one has to be oriented differently due to the 10" differences in length.

My way is by no means the best and only way to use a RC harness - it's just the way that I feel most comfortable using with all of the research and testing that I've done - ymmv. Good luck. :thumbs_up


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> Osha does not require 2 people to climb.
> 
> No a tree doesn't have a required rating that I know, but if you look at the video I am referring too you will see a fiberglass shell..... not the smartest thing to use as a 5k rating as per the requirement.
> 
> ...


EJP: We started going sideways in our conversation when my op stated after trying a rock climbing harness would you go back to a full body harness. You are the one that brought up tower climbing. You are correct in the fact that I don't know all the rules and regulations, that is why I keep trying to ask questions. You kept avoiding the answers and trying to insult me. I had a couple tower climbers and a tower builder tell me that you need to have two people on site to climb as well as every utube video climbing towers , showed climbing in tandem. My only point here is we hunt by ourselves a lot of times.
The front tie in helps in positioning, seems to be what the workers are using while climbing the towers, which would make sense while we are climbing. Remember in the treestand industry 85% of the accidents happen while climbing. Pole climbers use a front connecting harness very similar to a R/C. 
EJP: Take a minute and watch this old guy. He is climbing a pole using almost exactly the style of harness we are discussing. Poles are as close to a tree as you can get. Tree surgeons use a r/ style too. We can agree to disagree. Out of over 1,000 post, you seem to be the only one that feels this way.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

Gotta love saddle hunting.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)




----------



## fly1 (Mar 17, 2009)

A rock climbing friend of mine hunts from a saddle, Tracker and he loves it! I've yet to try it - maybe if I didn't have 4 climbers, and even more hang on stands I could see spending the cash to try it out. LOL


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

thirdhandman said:


> For the cell tower climbers and any one else interested. According to the narrator of this video showing a guy climbing the worlds tallest tower, *OSHA allows a front waist connection harness used in the video and doesn't even require them to use it called free climbing.* He says most climbers use the free climbing method. At 1:45 to 2:15 seconds he discusses this. If front waist connection are good at 1700 feet they should work 20' up. Enjoy the video!


let me guess, your buddies on cell tower message boards gave you all of this info...considering it isn't the first time you posted this jibberish, why don't we clear it up...

1. Mt Sutro (tower in said video) is hardly the tallest tower in the world....it isn't even the tallest tower in the US....go ahead, ask me how I know....Heck, at 298 m it is a baby tower for crying out loud.....the tallest tower in the US currently is in ND at 628m to the top of the mast.....Sutro might be the most congested with all the junk you have to climb through on that tower though.
2. OSHA does not now, nor have they ever, allowed free climbing.....any OSHA or NATE certified climber knows that.....
3. He was fined substantially...and is no longer allowed on Sutro.
4. That video was never intended to be made public.....




TheTracker said:


> It's legal.


If by legal meaing he will not go to jail for the climb, yes, legal.....if by legal as in sanctioned by OSHA....not so much....


TheTracker said:


> What's the name of the guy that was fined? I found the article and nowhere in it does it say he was fined for it.
> http://m.ehstoday.com/blog/stairway-osha-citation
> I looked and it said osha does not condone free climbing but I cannot find anything saying it's illegal. Have any osha links?


Seeing as how Peter did not intend this video to go public, I will not air out all of his laundry by listing his last name...I have personally worked with him on multiple RF installs/tower sites, and multiple jobs....he was fined.



thirdhandman said:


> EJP: I understand that you are a professional tower climber. I do get that. By Osha rules you are not allowed to climb the tower by yourself for a reason. Self rescue when connected between the shoulders can be tough. As shown in these videos being attached in front while climbing is the way. 85% of accidents in tree stands happen while climbing up, climbing in, climbing out and climbing down. All of which the hunter is facing the tree. So may I suggest the tower stand safety, is connected to the tower from in front, similar to the r/c harness, only we don't have a 25 pound bucket strapped to our shoulders while climbing and somebody to help us if there is a problem.


Again, more drivel and hog wash......tower climbers climb everyday by themselves.......most insurance companies, and most tower owners require 2 people, but at least 1 of those is required to be on the ground.....is this more info from the cell tower climbing message boards you are getting? No one climbs with just the lineman's connection, it is foolish.......


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

To each their own. Wear whatever, just wear something. Also that's not Sutro tower in the video as there are no ag fields anywhere near it also you would be seeing either the Pacific Ocean, San Francisco Bay, the city itself or South San Francisco none of which show in video. Not sure what tower it is but it is taller then Sutro.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Reylamb: I guess you missed the first sentence. * According to the narrator.*
Ok my bad, most insurance companies and tower owners require 2 people. I wonder why? Could you explain why the require 2 people? 
For some reason the all the videos I've seen in cell tower climbing, show full body harnesses, only connected in the front while climbing. Makes perfect sense to be connected in front while climbing to me.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

reylamb said:


> let me guess, your buddies on cell tower message boards gave you all of this info...considering it isn't the first time you posted this jibberish, why don't we clear it up...
> 
> 1. Mt Sutro (tower in said video) is hardly the tallest tower in the world....it isn't even the tallest tower in the US....go ahead, ask me how I know....Heck, at 298 m it is a baby tower for crying out loud.....the tallest tower in the US currently is in ND at 628m to the top of the mast.....Sutro might be the most congested with all the junk you have to climb through on that tower though.
> 2. OSHA does not now, nor have they ever, allowed free climbing.....any OSHA or NATE certified climber knows that.....
> ...


This is sutro tower.


----------



## jmclfrsh (Dec 23, 2014)

TheTracker said:


> Don't forget to buy some 1 inch tubular webbing and some rappel rings and make yourself a linemans belt for the harness!


I've already got two of those, HSS. I use two when setting up my climber and having to go above a big tree limb. That way I can hook above the limb with one while keeping the lower one connected, and once the upper one is in place, I take the lower one off and keep climbing. I do the reverse on the way down.

Once up top, I then hook up my reflective tree rope that stays up there while the stand is in that tree, and I go up and down using one linemans strap and the Prussic knot of the tree rope attached to my teather. I feel safer with two attachments at all times.


----------



## jmclfrsh (Dec 23, 2014)

TheTracker said:


> Don't forget to buy some 1 inch tubular webbing and some rappel rings and make yourself a linemans belt for the harness![/QUOTE
> 
> I've already got two of those, HSS. I use two when setting up my hang on with sticks and having to go above a big tree limb. That way I can hook above the limb with one while keeping the lower one connected, and once the upper one is in place, I take the lower one off and keep climbing. I do the reverse on the way down.
> 
> Once up top, I then hook up my reflective tree rope that stays up there while the stand is in that tree, and I go up and down using one linemans strap and the Prussic knot of the tree rope attached to my teather. I feel safer with two attachments at all times (if I can) when using sticks and a hang on stand.


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

thirdhandman said:


> Reylamb: I guess you missed the first sentence. * According to the narrator.*
> Ok my bad, most insurance companies and tower owners require 2 people. I wonder why? Could you explain why the require 2 people?
> For some reason the all the videos I've seen in cell tower climbing, show full body harnesses, only connected in the front while climbing. Makes perfect sense to be connected in front while climbing to me.


Why 2? Safety, for obvious reasons. If something happens on the tower you need someone on the ground to react. At one of my previous TV stations, anytime a crew would be working anywhere near any RF environments we required all tenants on the tower with active antennas to be onsite to ensure their transmitters stayed below the safe RF levels.....we went a little above and beyond what was mandated by Insurance in those cases.

Why connected in the front when climbing? Simple, if you fall you fall facing the tower. Easier for self rescue. While working you either connect with the linemans connections, or using the rear tether....dependent upon what you are doing. Either way, RC harnesses are prohibited for a reason.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Its pointless dude, the guy clearly knows everything regarding harnesses, self rescue, and OSHA...


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

reylamb said:


> *Why 2? Safety, for obvious reasons. If something happens on the tower you need someone on the ground to react. * At one of my previous TV stations, anytime a crew would be working anywhere near any RF environments we required all tenants on the tower with active antennas to be onsite to ensure their transmitters stayed below the safe RF levels.....we went a little above and beyond what was mandated by Insurance in those cases.
> 
> *Why connected in the front when climbing? Simple, if you fall you fall facing the tower.** Easier for self rescue*. While working you either connect with the linemans connections, or using the rear tether....dependent upon what you are doing. Either way, RC harnesses are prohibited for a reason.


Thank you: Since 85% of the treestand accidents occur while climbing it makes the self rescue much easier. We are up there by ourselves most of the time.:wink:


----------



## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't think anyone has given directions of how to climb a tower. Through all these post the emphasis has always been self rescue from a climber. The primary advantage of an RC harness is mobility when in a suspended state and you have access to your rope. Suspended from the rear you will most likely not be able to reach the rope or webbing that is supporting you. Pick your harness, practice wit it. Stated before if your using stick or a ladder it really does not matter what you wear you should be able to get to something you can climb onto easily. However in a catastrophic failure of any stand (ladder collapse, straps snap or sticks fail) i would prefer to be in my Black Diamond over any standard HSS type harness.


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

reylamb said:


> Why connected in the front when climbing? Simple, if you fall you fall facing the tower. Easier for self rescue. While working you either connect with the linemans connections, or using the rear tether....dependent upon what you are doing. Either way, RC harnesses are prohibited for a reason.


 Did you even read what he wrote? He wasn't asking you why they hook up in the front, He said it makes perfect sense why they hook up in front.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

But they dont always hook in the front when climbing lol...

Im literally laughing... Jim pointing out his expertise or knowledge about harnesses, climbing gear, and rescue techniques...

Its like the fry guy telling an accomplished structural engineer about designing buildings, it just doesnt make sense...


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Now Im really lol'ing, because that actually happened a week or so ago...

Jim recommended using bolts for steps... He said theres never been a recorded failure with the bolts being used that way, then several posters, posted they actually had them break.

Jim said its impossible because the bolts were designed to take the weights... But Jim doesnt realize that a bolts shear strength when cast was meant for equal non pinch loading... Theres nothing to sandwich the load when sliding into a free floating hole... Nor did he understand the idea that there are lots of casting failures, and at that the bolts didnt have grading stamps, nor that they were more than likely cast in China.

And this is our inhouse safety guy?... Lol


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

ejp: You certainly do know how to twist words. You changed the conversation from hunters who had changed over to rock climbing harnesses, to the conversation about the expertise of tower climbing. Clearly two different things. I'm point out that even tower climbers connect in the front which you seem to be opposed to. Since this thread was started for hunters that had changed over to rock climbing harnesses, why not just back off and start your own thread for tower climbing?


----------



## TheTracker (Sep 11, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> But they dont always hook in the front when climbing lol...
> 
> Im literally laughing... Jim pointing out his expertise or knowledge about harnesses, climbing gear, and rescue techniques...
> 
> Its like the fry guy telling an accomplished structural engineer about designing buildings, it just doesnt make sense...


You can be anything you want on the internet, Next year you'll be a astro physicist.


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

You seem to have it covered just fine. 

Climbers dont connect in the front with their anchor point behind them. The word twist is there, go back and read thru the pages of this non sense and see where my objection had been and why.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP1234 said:


> You seem to have it covered just fine.
> 
> *Climbers dont connect in the front with their anchor point behind them*. The word twist is there, go back and read thru the pages of this non sense and see where my objection had been and why.


When climbing a tree why would the anchor point be behind the climber?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP: We can only learn by asking questions and getting answers. This has been posted for over 5 hours, you have been on here several times since the question was posted and yet to answer. How are we supposed to learn from you?


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

EJP: It's been since January 18 that we have been waiting for your answer. Please answer this question so we can learn from your experience.
* When climbing a tree, why would the anchor point be behind the climber?*


----------



## EJP1234 (Aug 10, 2014)

Jim, I'll leave the conversation at this...

You've have numerous people who have made a living at climbing various structures in management roles tell you, you were wrong.

You've now have a EMT that as well is a trained S&R pro tell you, you are wrong..

You don't know what your talking about... There is no point is discussing things, arguing things, or any communication with you as you cannot accept being incorrect in the least. 

You have literally 0 training in anything to do with harnesses, rescue or any other topic related to this... your only source of information has been on the internet or from people who sell things at trade shows.


----------



## thirdhandman (Nov 2, 2009)

Exactly as I thought. You have no clue how to converse so we can learn from your expertise, with out trying to belittle. Even after a couple weeks of thinking, you still can't or will not answer the simple question. 
There is a big difference in climbing a 1500 foot tower and climbing a tree. Tree workers attach in the front for a reason. Seems as though hunters climbing tree are more like tree surgeons, than they are like tower climbers. Have a nice day!


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

It looks as though the arborist tree saddles have either a front attachment, 2 side attachments, or a combination of both. However, they are intended to sit in while hanging from a lifeline while working compared to wearing a RC harness while sitting on stand. They do seem to have the same basic concept. I guess we can agree to disagree.

http://www.bartlettman.com/Saddles_c_93.html


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

Question for you fellas....I have a Seat of the pants and a HSS do you think I could run a loop through my linemans loops with a piece of 11mm cord doubled up and connect through that. Would this work the same as a RC harness?


----------



## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

3D Pinwheeler said:


> Question for you fellas....I have a Seat of the pants and a HSS do you think I could run a loop through my linemans loops with a piece of 11mm cord doubled up and connect through that. Would this work the same as a RC harness?


I think I understand what your wanting to do - but I'm not sure where the "lineman's loops" are, but if they're on the sides I would think it would be a bad idea. If you're going to use the Seat of the Pants harness with the HSS lifeline, you'd be better off using it per the directions and then hope you never fall and subject yourself to suspension trauma. 

I'm not a big fan of those HSS lifelines and I will not use a traditional 4 point harness anymore but that's just me. Good luck.


----------



## 3D Pinwheeler (Jan 29, 2007)

I'm going to the RC....it had crossed my mind using a standard harness like I described. I like the weight and freedom of the RC. My HSS I like it as a vest and put all my essentials in the pockets...don't like the thought of being pinned to the tree by the back.


----------

