# judging yardage



## XADDICT (Apr 12, 2005)

I try to have a good mental picture of 20, 30 and 40 yards. When I judge a target I try to round it to the nearest mental pic. Then I try to imagine how many steps it would take for me to get to the target from that point, to get my single increments. That or I just count the steps of the guys that are pulling arrows


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## Kelly Johnson (May 22, 2005)

I shoot indoors as well so I tend to look at everything in groups of 20 yards. I'll find something that looks 20 and see how much farther the target is. half again, only another 5 maybe...whatever.

I like X's step counting though :wink:


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## Bowhuntxx78 (Oct 7, 2003)

I guess it's all in what works for the indivdual... For me I like to split the distance in half and work the closet half to me, then double it....works good for me, but I do have problems if there is a gully between myself and the target or shooting from one hillside to another...


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## srcarlso (Mar 3, 2005)

*Distance*

I try to use 10 yd increments - when that does not work I pull out the old rangefinder.


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## digger58 (Jul 12, 2003)

I used to estimate 20 yards as a benchmark but found by using 30 my estimates have been considerably closer


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## loujo61 (Apr 29, 2005)

I first just guess how far it is-my first thought.I use 35 yards as my benchmark and test my first thought by picking an object or spot that I think is 35 yards inline with the target and visually add or subtract each yard from that point to the target.
Once I come up with a number I test it by focusing on something ,like a tree in a totally differant direction that I think is 35 yards away and look back at the target and compare my references and fine tune that number.
I then spot the half way point to the target and compare that to 20 yards and visually add or subtract each yard from 20 and multiply that number by two for total yardage to the target.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Here is a thread where this was discussed a couple weeks ago. Alot of good info.


Yardage


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

I don't know if there is any wrong answer. It can be very tough depending on you eyes. I also had a similar experience at Bedford this year. Lately, a friend and I have been FUN shooting the local 3D events. We guess the yardage and then range find it before we shoot. We haven't really improved our score as much as you might think. In general, I think you have to find a system which works for your and practice a lot. It might be just walking and guess and range finding differ things.


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## CritterGitter (Mar 16, 2005)

I actually just shot my first ever 3-D shoot over the weekend, Saturday I was trying to guess the yardage going to the stake thinking "ok this is thirty yards" and then really blow the shot, because I got away from my hunting mantra in wich when i'm hunting I range things by the pins on my bow. So Sunday I got back into my hunting frame of mind so I went to the stake thinking "ok this is yellow pin all day" or "this is red pin high" and I scored 135 points higher on sunday than I did on Saturday! I still had to figure the distance for what it was but equate that distance to something that is familiar. I just thought I would share and hope that maybe it helps. Good Luck.


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## srcarlso (Mar 3, 2005)

*Binos for cheating???*

In the post referenced above, somebody referenced using Bino's for cheating - sounds like alot of people do it or use something else to take the judging part out. 

Just another reason rangefinders should be allowed - put everyone on a level playing field and let the skill of the shooter make the difference.

Sorry - had to vent on this one. I hate cheaters!!!


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## xring 77 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Maybe I should try this*

This is some very helpful information, thanks for all the input. I think using a range finder for each shot at a shoot to see how much your shooting ability depends on your judging capabilties is an excellent idea. So at the next shoot you go to Range find each target, don't even try to guess it and see how much you score improves. If your score increase alot then you probably need to practice judging yardage more than you actually shoot the bow. I know its not as fun but it will improve your overall scores.


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## xring 77 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Binos for cheating*

I've heard of guys doing that but never master the art of doing it. I feel that by the time I figure out how to use the Binos for cheating I could come up with some legal method for figureing out yardage. I also heard about swaying side to side to use stakes or trees to determine the yardage. One thing I can do usually is tell how far the target is by listening to how long the arrow takes to get to the target. Now you must know approximately how fast that bow is shooting like 280-295 or 300 and up.


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## mlviper (May 18, 2005)

My partner uses binos. Goes to the range and focues in on each target.20-30-40 etc. Hash marks his focus knob for each one. Then at a shoot he focuses in on the target and looks at what hash mark he is on. Works for him. But I have found it only seems to work on the little binos, 30mm objective lens or under. 

I judge it in 20 yard increments. But i have been playing around with different things too.

I think that is part of the fun.


Regards,

Matt


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## srcarlso (Mar 3, 2005)

*????*



mlviper said:


> My partner uses binos. Goes to the range and focues in on each target.20-30-40 etc. Hash marks his focus knob for each one. Then at a shoot he focuses in on the target and looks at what hash mark he is on. Works for him.  But I have found it only seems to work on the little binos, 30mm objective lens or under.
> 
> I judge it in 20 yard increments. But i have been playing around with different things too.
> 
> ...


This may sound harsh, I apologize in advance, but are you and your buddy shooting competition? Why does your buddy rely on cheating - lets all play on an even playing field. I, for one, say take the yardage guessing out of it and let SKILL determine the pecking order, not gimmicks.


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## mlviper (May 18, 2005)

He wants to shoot comp. I dont think it will happen. I ""personally"" do not care for Binos or the use of them. I think it is a little stupid. He and I are at odds on the bino hashing. I use the old standard, and guess 20 yard incs. I may try the half way idea. I have tried the 5 yard end over end.
I think guessing the yardage is part of it, that makes or brakes you in 3D. That is what makes it fun, and challenging.

Is he cheating??? Not sure, don't know, don't care, thats up to the range judges. Just like for everyone else that is got some kind of mechanical gizmo to help them.

I beleave you should just make your best guess and shoot the dang thing.

You will know soon enough if you were right.

Regards,

Matt


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## xring 77 (Jun 28, 2004)

*gimmiks*

There are plenty of gimmiks and I have personally found that non of them are as reliable as just looking at a target and taking a guess. I believe in using every advantage as long as it is legal. the Binos will get you in to some trouble due to lighting conditions unless you use a 12 power pair of binos which is illegal in the IBO. Every archer should use any advantage they can because you know that everyone else is going to use what they can to win. That doesn't mean go and cheat but use the ground to judge, trees, target features, and half way. If you know the targets well enough you can tell alot about the distance just by looking at the size and or definition of that target. trees are another tell tale, with certain trees if you can see good defintion of the bark you know you are with a certain distance. For example between 35 and 40 depending on lighting a cherry tree loses the bark definition. These tell tales won't answer all the jugding questions but are a good way to help see the distance to the target.


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## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

mlviper said:


> Is he cheating??? Not sure, don't know, don't care, thats up to the range judges.
> 
> 
> Matt


Boy, I certainly hope we have a few more concerned individuals like you!!!  

I mean really why don't you just mark the card with what ever score you want!!

I have never understood cheating and this is cheating plain and simple. If he wants to shoot competition with me and I see though binoculars, I will have the range judges over very quickly. If you can't compete by the rules then don't compete.


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## GaryM12 (Aug 18, 2004)

Since targets come in different sizes I usually use the ground to determine the range to a target If its flat then I size up a certain distance across the ground (say 20 yds) and then double it or one and a half it to the target.

If its hilly or a ravine then I use trees on the other side to determine range based on the size of the diameter of the tree.....

If they both dont work then I WAG (wild ass guess) it and add 2 yds. :teeth:


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## mlviper (May 18, 2005)

Deezlin,

(Quote Deezlin:
Boy, I certainly hope we have a few more concerned individuals like you!!! 

I mean really why don't you just mark the card with what ever score you want!!)

Lets get a couple things straight.

1: I don't cheat, I mark the score that is there.

2: At this time he does not shoot comp. So I do not care what he does.

3: And if it gets right down to it. There is nothing they do about the binos.
They state that they are legal up to 8X. How you use them is not stated. It is a practice that I have been seeing done at shoots. And he picked up on it.
Is it ethical I don't know that would be up to IBO or ASA to clearify in the rules. And if you find the rule that states that is not allowed pass it on. Does it help him, not really. I out shoot him 9 out of 10.

5: Personally I do not use binos. I think they are a waste of time. That is why I shoot open class with a 4x scope, no need for binos.

6: I take my best guess on yardage, nothing more or less. As far as know that is not cheating. But you may have a different view on that.


So before you rip into me about this issue, and state basically I am cheating or a cheater. Read a little more into the thread and I clearly state my opinion. I am not going to run around like you may do, and point out all the rules that are being broken or not being broken(Binos case in point). I am there to shoot, its hard enough for me to keep track of what I am doing let alone someone else. 

This thread was about what we do on yardage guess. I stated things I have seen and what """" I """ do, period,nothing more.

I am sorry you disagree with what I said, and you have a valid point. Its just not wise to attack someone on just general statements in this thread. :sad: 

Now if you want to talk about the ethics of the Bino hashing. I am all for.

I will even start a thread on it.  

Regards,

Matt


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## C-WOODS-SHOOT (Mar 9, 2005)

Try this practice technique for conquering those ravine shots. Take your rangefinder to the nearest ravine and try guessing which trees are 20 yards, 30 yards, etc.(Straight out from where you stand, not down the hill) Check it with your rangefinder and continue until those yardages become engraved in your head. Now pick two trees at two different distances and guess how far they are apart. Now do this alot. Practice makes perfect even though it is boring.


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## bowhunter0916 (Apr 18, 2005)

*Personally*

Personally I range things by twenty feet. I am a plumber and I use twenty foot lengths of pipe all day long and I use that mental image to judge yardage. I hope this doesnt make me a cheater!!! I dont shoot for compitition. I shoot to make myself a better hunter.


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## P.L. Archery (Apr 14, 2005)

I pick a spot half way there and guesstamate that yardage. If no reference point, then I'll use ten yard incriments.


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## Doc (Jun 10, 2003)

Good ol' football wind sprints helped me out. I picture things in 10 yard increments.


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

The ASA rule is clear and plain. You may only use your eyes to judge yardage, no bino's, no gapping or anything else like that.


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## Guest (May 27, 2005)

tried and tested method 

drum roll -----------------------------the > ish method < ------------

20 ish 
30 ish 
40 ish 


most people can work out the main distance say 20 yrds or meters 
if you think it is a little more than 20 yrds  and less than 30 yrds 

go the ISH method 

hold your pin dot whatever you use high or walk the target say top of the 10 ring or simply dial up extra yardage 

haveing said that you want something that moves around 280 fps or faster


give it a go given by what has been said on here cant hurt to try it


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## Target Tony (Mar 3, 2003)

since i shoot a lot of indoor archery i can pick out 20 yds pretty easy... i then go in 10 yard increments to the target ... if the target looks longer than 35 yards then i go with the halfway method....sometimes i use gut instinct , but i usually confirm it with one or both of my other methods...

but im currently working on a new method for me.. it is totally legal but just takes one of the above methods to the next level.... :thumbs_up 

Shoot Strong
Tony


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## luckypierre (Apr 28, 2005)

Back when I was a finger release shooter I would simply draw and use the pins mainly for windage. Kind of like instinctive, but with pins. It worked really well for me.


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## bowshootinmomma (May 4, 2005)

*A Lady's Opinion*

I hope you don't mind if a Lady puts in her 2 cents worth. I haven't been shooting long...only a couple of months but it's all been 3D and it seems to me that it's the ability to guess the right yardage that makes 3D the sport that it is. What would be the point if all the targets had the yardage marked....wouldn't that be the same as shooting on the range? To me...it's all about learning to guess my yardage and since the ladies don't often have to shoot further than 30 yds I guess in 10 yd increments as best I can. Dips and hills throw me off but I'm learning to compensate..sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. My husband and I kick around a basket ball in the back yard and guess the yardage...then we use the range finder to see how close we were. We do that with other things around the yard of different sizes too. It's only been 2 months but some days we get it down pat at the shoots and others we may as well have stayed home .....but we learned something and we had a ball doing it! Isn't that what it's all about...perfecting skills and having fun doing it? :teeth:


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## Nexus6 (Jan 27, 2003)

> My husband and I kick around a basket ball in the back yard and guess the yardage...then we use the range finder to see how close we were. We do that with other things around the yard of different sizes too.


Hey, that is one of the most innovative things I have heard of in a while.

I am going to get my wife outdoors trying that one. The other method that I like is having a "Ranging Scorecard" to record how you do. One person is the guesser with a card and the other has a laser pointer and a rangefinder. The one person points to something in the woods, meadow, across the water, across rolling ground etc. and the other guesses by writing it down. The other person ranges the target and then writes down the true range and the conditions (e.g. across water). After going through the targets the cards are compared and the guesser can see how well he did and what he needs to improve on or if he guesses short by two yards always, can remember that he always does that.


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## bowshootinmomma (May 4, 2005)

*The basket ball idea*

That idea came from a friend of ours who's been shooting 3D for years. He and his son used to do that and now that his son is grown it's usually a toss up as to which one of them will win the shoot!! I like that idea that you had too...think my hubby and I will try that out but we need to get a pointer like yours first though. Great idea!!!


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

That "ole innovator" George Dixon talked about dragging a 20 yd rope behind him through the woods and frequently looking back to practice finding 20 yds right on the money. I tried that with a 10 yd marker on the rope. It is a good way to learn the basic 20 yd marker very accurately. I base almost all of my judgements upon finding 20 yds dead on the money. A 1-2 yard error finding the 20 yd mark is really magnified in final estimate.


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## Target Tony (Mar 3, 2003)

Mike Braden recomends that method also.. but i think he wants you to drag a 50 yard rope around ... he also suggests that you mark that rope with marks you can identify 20 , 30 and 40 yards on it...

my problem is that i dont trust what my eyes see .. this happend to me yesterday at a shoot in Atlantic Iowa...
i saw 25 yards at the halfway point but didint trust it . because of the down angle to the 25 yard spot i cut 4 yards or 8 total off on my estimate . i shot a 52 yard elk for 44 yards , i got a 5.. i finished 2 points out of first...378 out of 400 for the Open class....

Shoot Strong
Tony


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