# Recurve/longbow anchor point



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

It seems to be rather common that people coming from compounds find they have a shorter draw length with stickbows, at least at first. It also seems quite common that over time as they learn to shoot their recurve or longbow their draw length expands and more closely matches their compound draw length. Strive for consistency and let your draw length work itself out over time.

Anchor points are all over and depend a lot on facial structure. The classic is a "C" formed by your thumb and index finger cupping the back and bottom of your jaw bone which usually puts your index finger around the corner of your mouth. You have to try and find something comfortable and repeatable, some kind of bone (hand) on bone (face) reference point. If you can come up with two, even better. Corner of the mouth is not bone on bone, but many use it for a secondary reference. Personally, the cupping of the jaw doesn't work for my well fleshed out face, I have my anchors around the back of my jaw and cheekbone. I also shoot split so try for a little higher anchor point, makes it easier to hit what I'm shooting at at the hunting/3D ranges I most often shoot from.

Hopefully Viper will be along shortly, he can describe it better than me...:wink:


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

First off, facial construction can play a big part in draw length. Likewise, if your bow is on the heavy side, you're going to be under more compression and unable to fully expand into your draw.

However, draw length shouldn't determine where you anchor so much as what anchor produces the most accuracy and consistency. Shooting barebow, I like three under anchoring on top of my cheek bone, right under my eye. I can get anywhere from 20 to 40 yard point on just my messing with arrow weights and lengths, but all of my gaps are reasonable and forgiving for any sort of shooting under 100 yards. It does, however, come at the cost of requiring more attention to my back muscles to make sure I'm not pulling with my arms. As a result, I normally can't shoot the sort of weight I could with a lower anchor.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Get yourself a copy of "Shooting the Stickbow" ASAP. $20 from Amazon or most online archery retailers.


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## N7XW (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. I may have overbowed myself to begin with (50#) but measuring my dw last night, I am at 44.5# and 40# is minimum to hunt with. So I don't think I'll be dropping dw anytime soon. I may get a set of lighter limbs and different arrows just to work on better form though.

Thanks again.


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## N7XW (Oct 31, 2011)

centershot said:


> Get yourself a copy of "Shooting the Stickbow" ASAP. $20 from Amazon or most online archery retailers.


Is that the one by Viper1?

Any thoughts on Byron's book "Become the Arrow"?


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

N7XW said:


> Is that the one by Viper1?
> 
> Any thoughts on Byron's book "Become the Arrow"?


Yes...http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shooting-the-stickbow-book-2nd-edition-by-anthony-camera.html

I have both "Shooting the Stickbow" and "Become the Arrow" and think both are worthy books. They come from different perspectives though, the first is more formal target oriented and the second is more of the "traditional" perspective. If you can afford both I think you will find they complement each other. If you can only afford one, my opinion is that "StSB" is a more complete treatment of the issues involved.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

My vote...tab, split finger, trigger finger near corner of mouth by feel. As I am in rehab and will only be shooting lighter limbs SOON, I hope to experiment with some form issues. One will be another attempt to lengthen anchor to a gap from a recent tooth removal in my upper jaw. Has not felt right in the past...maybe after some work on it?

Was hoping to be shooting 300s and longer range lengths right now, however it is back to rehab.


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## Moebow (Jul 8, 2010)

I don't disagree with the advice already given! I will add this though. Your "anchor" should not be just some choice you make. It is NOT a " I think I want to put this finger here, this part of my hand there, etc." Then drawing to get to those places. Instead, I suggest that you draw to get your "bones aligned" and supporting the bow weight AND THEN find where your hand is on your face and establishing that as your reference. The face/hand references should be a RESULT of your draw, NOT a target OF your draw.

Arne


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Moebow said:


> I don't disagree with the advice already given! I will add this though. Your "anchor" should not be just some choice you make. It is NOT a " I think I want to put this finger here, this part of my hand there, etc." Then drawing to get to those places. Instead, I suggest that you draw to get your "bones aligned" and supporting the bow weight AND THEN find where your hand is on your face and establishing that as your reference. The face/hand references should be a RESULT of your draw, NOT a target OF your draw.
> 
> Arne


Thank you!


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

1. the 2.5 test is just that, a test...it gets you in the ball park (for most). You'll have to play with different draw lengths to find out what works best for you.

2. Yep, quite common to have recurve and compound with different draw lengths.

I'd suggest that you do exactly what you're thinking--get some lighter limbs...30# would be good or 35's and back them out. This will give you the opportunity to work on form instead of muscle/strength.

Also, don't cut your arrows down. You can cut them some so they're not 6" past the riser but not so much that you can't grow your DL...I'd go as much as 1.5" past AMO DL.

On growing DL. When I started shooting recurve my DL was around 29.5" but after some coaching and several thousand rounds later, my DL went to almost 30.5. I shot recurve exclusively for a few months and when I went back to my compound--it no longer fit--glad I didn't cut those arrows either.


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## N7XW (Oct 31, 2011)

Moebow said:


> I don't disagree with the advice already given! I will add this though. Your "anchor" should not be just some choice you make. It is NOT a " I think I want to put this finger here, this part of my hand there, etc." Then drawing to get to those places. Instead, I suggest that you draw to get your "bones aligned" and supporting the bow weight AND THEN find where your hand is on your face and establishing that as your reference. The face/hand references should be a RESULT of your draw, NOT a target OF your draw.
> 
> Arne


This sounds like a great approach. Thank you.


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## N7XW (Oct 31, 2011)

Fury90flier said:


> 1. the 2.5 test is just that, a test...it gets you in the ball park (for most). You'll have to play with different draw lengths to find out what works best for you.
> 
> 2. Yep, quite common to have recurve and compound with different draw lengths.
> 
> ...


I've got a lot to think about on arrows. I made all my measurements and plugged them into OT2 to get correct arrow spine, length and bh weight. I came up with Easton Legacy 2016 (500 spine) at 26.75" and 150 grain bh's. This is only 1" past AMO dl though. If my dl lengthens as mentioned, my arrows may end up being too short. I may have to go back and try a 125 grain bh and longer shafts.


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## KennyO (Feb 5, 2003)

N7XW said:


> Is that the one by Viper1?
> 
> Any thoughts on Byron's book "Become the Arrow"?


I have both books, vipers was more technical and comprehensive with more tuning info. I felt byron explained alignment better and was a more fun read. You should get both.


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## N7XW (Oct 31, 2011)

I think I will. Thanks.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

N7XW - 

Sorry, but the wing span measurement and your compound draw length are both all but meaningless. 
The "calculated" DL doesn't take anchor or functional shoulder girth into account (and results are usually shorter than actual).
You compound DL is most likely with a D-loop, possibly a bent bow arm and an anchor farther back than it will be with a "traditional" bow. 

The only way to get into a ball park of your DL, is with a "stupid light" draw check bow and something that resembles a reproducible anchor. 
While several anchors are possible, you have to find one that works for you - think of two words, natural and reproducible. 
Even with that, as your forms develops, you draw length has a tendency to increase - due to better or improving alignment. 
So yeah, it may be in flux for a few months.

Also think you'd be better off with a lighter bow to learn on. 
At the very least, going that heavy may stop you from ever figuring out your real draw length - or what good form and a good shot should feel like.

The 500's if keep long will get you shooting until things settle and you can do some formal tuning. 
I wouldn't start with that just yet.

Viper1 out.


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## Beendare (Jan 31, 2006)

kegan said:


> First off, facial construction can play a big part in draw length. Likewise, if your bow is on the heavy side, you're going to be under more compression and unable to fully expand into your draw.
> 
> However, draw length shouldn't determine where you anchor so much as what anchor produces the most accuracy and consistency.





Moebow said:


> Your "anchor" should not be just some choice you make. It is NOT a " I think I want to put this finger here, this part of my hand there, etc." Then drawing to get to those places. Instead, I suggest that you draw to get your "bones aligned" and supporting the bow weight AND THEN find where your hand is on your face and establishing that as your reference. The face/hand references should be a RESULT of your draw, NOT a target OF your draw.
> 
> Arne





Viper1 said:


> N7XW -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All good advice. I just spent the better part of a couple months changing from my "Soft" corner of the mouth anchor to something more consistant


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## N7XW (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks guys. Looks like I've got a lot to figure out. I'm quickly learning that traditional bows are a whole 'nother ballgame. I'm having to relearn what I thought would apply from compound shooting.

The other thing I am wondering about is the string grooves on my new longbow. I got a Samick Trailblazer and noticed the grooves are not cut evenly. They are not the same width, depth, or angle on each side of the cut - on either limbtip. I don't know if they are supposed to be cut evenly and symmetrical or not. I thought maybe not because it does seem to make the string lay closer to the shelf side of the bow instead of straight down the center of the limb. Or maybe my bow is defective(?). I know it is just an inexpensive Chinese bow but I still expect the string grooves to be cut correctly. I'm going to try to get some pictures and post them up later.


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## LBR (Jan 1, 2004)

> The face/hand references should be a RESULT of your draw, NOT a target OF your draw.


Excellent advice. If you can learn to properly use back tension, you will find you have a natural and consistent draw length. I can't explain it, but it's pretty simple to explain in person.

Establish proper form, accuracy will follow. No better information source I know of than "Masters of the Barebow, Volume III"...other than getting a personal coach. Hard to find better sources than two World Champion archers who are both avid and successful hunters.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

N7XW said:


> Thanks guys. Looks like I've got a lot to figure out. I'm quickly learning that traditional bows are a whole 'nother ballgame. I'm having to relearn what I thought would apply from compound shooting.
> 
> The other thing I am wondering about is the string grooves on my new longbow. I got a Samick Trailblazer and noticed the grooves are not cut evenly. They are not the same width, depth, or angle on each side of the cut - on either limbtip. I don't know if they are supposed to be cut evenly and symmetrical or not. I thought maybe not because it does seem to make the string lay closer to the shelf side of the bow instead of straight down the center of the limb. Or maybe my bow is defective(?). I know it is just an inexpensive Chinese bow but I still expect the string grooves to be cut correctly. I'm going to try to get some pictures and post them up later.


Yep, your right coming from compound bow to traditional is a whole new ball game. Especially, if you used a release. 

I switched over from compound fingers to traditional and had to find a better hook. With compound my hook was out on the finger tips. I would draw split finger and drop the top at full draw. Now with traditional I have three finger under, a deep hook which help keeps a flattened back of my release hand. I hope that. Make sense.
I now draw more with my elbow like a J pattern. This helps me get to a better anchor without wanting to snap shoot. I practice a lot with a bungee cord to strengthen my back, helping in the hold, even though I pulled a 62 pound compound to now a 35# recurve. I went from a lower anchor to now a higher anchor. I didn't figure that out until some one on here posted their worst mistakes. I Best described it as a shotgun barrel look. To me it's help in my aim. Good luck. I hope this helps. Keep on reading on here and trying new things really helps.
DD


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## MAC 11700 (Feb 22, 2011)

There are several things you can bring into shooting traditional from compounds...

Bow hand placement and grip pressure. ..proper back tension. .steady bow hand..and making a clean release all will play a vital role in how well you will shoot. ..

My advice. ..is to get yourself to a pro shop. .where you can get measured correctly before buying any arrows..

Once you know what you will be drawing to fully stretched out...then you can get started..with that bow...If you are uncomfortable drawing it fully..get lighter limbs. .you won't be as accurate drawing a bow that is uncomfortable for you. ..

Next..decide how you want to shoot it...as silly as this sounds to you. ..because there are differences in the styles. .

If you want to shoot it like your compund...where you are using the arrow as some type of aiming reference. .you will need to be able to draw and hold at full draw easily and steadily. ..heavy weight bows are difficult to do with out developing the correct muscles....so...you will have to gain strength to do this. ..it doesn't work well otherwise. .

If you have plans on shooting like Howard Hill. .in a controlled fluid snap shooting. ..guess what...you'll still need to develop stronger muscles to do this too. .and also develop excellent eye hand coordination. ..

Both ways work. ..especially if you want them to. .and put enough effort into practice. .

Once you decide on how you want to shoot...then you can move forward with this. 

Shooting a traditional bow accurately and consistently is not easy...and takes commitment to succeed. .

The books and videos mentioned are good to read and watch...but...if you can get one on one instructions. ..you will be miles ahead ..

Mac


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

Moebow said:


> I don't disagree with the advice already given! I will add this though. Your "anchor" should not be just some choice you make. It is NOT a " I think I want to put this finger here, this part of my hand there, etc." Then drawing to get to those places. Instead, I suggest that you draw to get your "bones aligned" and supporting the bow weight AND THEN find where your hand is on your face and establishing that as your reference. The face/hand references should be a RESULT of your draw, NOT a target OF your draw.
> 
> Arne


If I did that, I think I would end up with an under the chin (Olympic) type anchor. Maybe I'm missing something but any "side of the face" anchor seems to represent some degree of compromise in alignment.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

MGF - 

Here's a quick break down fer ya:

A proper side of face anchor provides the best lock up and shoulder alignment, since it gives the most secure bone on bone contact and usually farther back than most of the under chin type anchors. It does have the least effective lines of tension across the back muscles. Additionally, since the arrow is closer to the aiming eye, the gaps are shorter and in the case of Olympic shooters, running out of sight travel at the longer yardages is a real possibility. 

The center chin anchor provides a good hard stop for the string, but may sacrifice some shoulder alignment as it's the most forward. Lines of tension across the back are improved since the anchor is closer to the draw line of those muscles. 

The under chin/side of jaw anchor has the worst lock up possible (harder to reproduce) as there can be the most variation in the stopping point, but provides optimal extension and good lines of force across the drawing muscles. 

So, there will always be compromises, it's kind of a pick your poison type thing based on what you are trying to do. 

Viper1 out.


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## SS7777 (Mar 17, 2012)

N7XW said:


> Is that the one by Viper1?
> 
> Any thoughts on Byron's book "Become the Arrow"?


I bought them at the same time;read Byron's book first (it arrived first), but I found myself focusing more on aiming than actually making a good shot. Viper's book is a lot more in depth on the bio-mechanical aspects of archery, and is easier to understand. It is probably a better place to start. 

If you're like me, you can read a book, think you understand it, but still manage to make a mess of the process anyway. It's like going to school. Education helps you make better decisions, but doesn't give you experience or confidence. You only achieve the latter through experience and learning from those who know what they are doing. For me, I really need somebody to show / tell me what I'm doing wrong. I still manage to screw it up, but not nearly as badly.


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## DDSHOOTER (Aug 22, 2005)

Viper1 said:


> MGF -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## N7XW (Oct 31, 2011)

Great advice all around. Thanks guys. I think I'll get Viper's book and start studying more. Any thoughts on my longbow string grooves? I'll try to get some pictures posted tonight.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

Was curious...tried my draw in the mirror...and just saved myself some time and effort. Used a 18# at 30" PSE Snake to draw to my "corner of mouth" by feel draw, then pulled the extra distance to a gap in my upper jaw from a recent tooth extraction. First observation, it was a 1/2" change in draw length...not 1/4" or less as I had thought. Next observation, I lost my feel for my draw and remember what happened last time I tried this...the string racked the flair on the right side of my nose nostral...not good. Then I observed as I held normal anchor an fairly automatic flood of information that was associated with holding my normal anchor. Then I stopped as I did not want to think about this to much. I want to remember the feel. Not ALL the details of the feel.

Last observation, my left lower back was to tight (no discomfort) from so little activity. No shooting for a while...STILL?! DARN!!

When I did Martial Arts as a kid and later as an adult I was good at sparing, yet not so good at forms. Could teach most of sailing with ease...got to some windsurfing technique "outlines" and had to spend some serious time on the water describing the "feel" to myself so I could later describe it to others. More recently, when taking Salsa lessons and hitting the Salsa clubs, I could dance...yet learning the choreographed moves was next to futile.

I have avoided books and other longer organized "instruction" as I do not process it well when it comes to something I do by feel. I know I am missing out on some things and developing some bad habits. Yet for me it is probably better this way. I like AT as I download what I want and drop what I do not want.

Thanx guys.


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## wseward (Mar 7, 2013)

CORRECTION: ...books...

should read: ...Archery books...


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