# Short arms, short limbs. Why not?



## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

I've only been shooting about 8 months, but nearly everyday. I've pretty much settled into a good setup, and have decent enough form to know I won't massively expand my draw length. 

Here's the thing: at anchored full draw, I'm pulling arrows cut to 26" trough an extended clicker. To be on the riser's Clicker plate I'm using 25.5 ( valley to end, point excluded) arrows. With 36# limbs cranked all the way down, I'm holding 36#. 

For those in the know, what ( if anything) will significantly change by going to shorter limbs? Obviously, I'm not using mediums very efficiently as they are at their power curve around 28", far short from where I hold.

Would I get more from short limbs? "Everyone" says short limbs are for kids and such, but is that just an unfounded notion? Fact is, I have short arms like a kid. No getting around it, so I though I'd benefit from short limbs.

Anyone have thoughts? Flaws in my logic?

Thanks!


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

Hi, Short limbs will be ok with your draw length. I am 5' 9" and only draw 27" so I use short Win & Win SF Premium Carbon
Limbs and have no problem shooting short limbs. I think short limbs are available for people who shoot comfortably
with them based on the arm length so they are not really for kids. I don't think you will have any problems with
stacking. Regards
Norman2


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks!


It's just been very common to encounter wrinkled noses and dismissive head shakes when I even mention the possibility of needing short limbs, and I'm new enough that I figured everyone knew something I didn't.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Mickey -

The idea of bow length (riser and/or limb length) is based on draw length. The idea is to have limbs that are smooth all the way to your anchor (no stacking)and you don't get noticeable finger pinch, while still fully exercising the limbs (flexing them enough to make them act efficiently).

If those criteria are met, your limbs are fine.

Viper1 out.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Viper1 said:


> ....while still fully exercising the limbs (flexing them enough to make them act efficiently).



I'll never stack mediums! as for getting efficient use from my limbs, at my draw, I'd imagine its akin to driving a Ferrari around at 3000 rpm. 

I had considered a 23" riser, but was talked out of that early on. 

Thank you!


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

My draw length is around 27", and I have no issues with "Short" limbs, on a 25" riser, with the limbs wound down to max. poundage...I can also make good use of either 'Shorts" or 'Mediums" on a 23" riser, as long as the "Short" limbs are decent, keeping in mind that all limbs are not equal in their draw force characteristics...Maybe try to borrow a set of "Shorts" and see how they feel to You???...You wont really know until You see for Yourself......Take care.........Jim


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks, Jim. I'll definitely give them a shot if I get the opportunity. What are the pro/ cons of using 23" riser/ med limbs vs 25" riser with short limbs? Although the length is the same, I'd imagine shorter limbs would be less squirrelly than a shorter riser as the fulcrum is farther out from the center, but that's just me guessing. 

I can pick up a 23" riser cheaper than I can replace all my medium limbs, but would I get more... "Snap" from a short limb/ 25 riser setup?


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## Harperman (Sep 3, 2006)

MickeyBisco said:


> Thanks, Jim. I'll definitely give them a shot if I get the opportunity. What are the pro/ cons of using 23" riser/ med limbs vs 25" riser with short limbs? Although the length is the same, I'd imagine shorter limbs would be less squirrelly than a shorter riser as the fulcrum is farther out from the center, but that's just me guessing.
> 
> I can pick up a 23" riser cheaper than I can replace all my medium limbs, but would I get more... "Snap" from a short limb/ 25 riser setup?


I prefer a 25" riser, and Short limbs, mostly because the longer riser is heavier, and feels more stable, the arrow speed difference is very little ,if any, comparing longer riser/short limb, and shorter riser/medium limb.....Again, it's mostly about "Feel", and what the individual wants/likes...Jim


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

I shot shorts for two years, never had any real issues.
Shorts are supposed to be faster as there is less limb/string weight to move however several chrono tests have shown the difference is minimal at best though you do get the benefit of "working" the limb a little more.
The reason I went to mediums was to ease the string pinch on my fingers, they also appear to give me slightly better grouping with my set up.
With modern limbs being so efficient the advantage of shorts is erroded some what.

There is a female Korean international (whose name escapes me) who at little over 5 foot shoots longs!.

The only real way to know whats best for you is to try some (try and borrow some for a few weeks rather than a couple of dozen).

Once you know what you prefer stick with it, even if people say it's for kids.


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## Chris RL (Oct 30, 2011)

Ryan, hi! It's Chris.
Conventional wisdom has it that the longer limbs offer a less acute angle of the string to the drawing hand at full draw, resulting in less pinching of the fingers. However, I've tried longs, mediums and Harlan's shorts, and the difference, even over a hundred or so reversals/SPTs seemed to me to be minimal. That said, I can see how it might be an issue for other archers with differently shaped/muscled hands and fingers.
I also researched limb lengths as against performance gains/losses this past year and, at distances up to 70m at least, could find little or no practical data to say one way or another which was better. Now, overall limb design/efficiency is another matter entirely. 
But for this discussion, I'd say try them and see! 
See you at the range
C


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Chris,


Thanks for the insights!

While I'm grouping fairly well with medium limbs, I can't help feeling like I'm driving a Ferrari with the E brake engaged. My draw cycle is completed before I even started reaching the power curve of medium limbs, so I really am thinking shorts might be better, Or a 23 inch riser to take advantage of my medium limbs.


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## Norman2 (Aug 4, 2012)

MickeyBisco said:


> Chris,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the insights!
> ...


Hi, I strongly suggest you keep you 25" riser and go with short limbs, That is the best combination if your draw length is near or 28"
Regards
Norman


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Norman2 said:


> Hi, I strongly suggest you keep you 25" riser and go with short limbs, That is the best combination if your draw length is near or 28"
> Regards
> Norman



Norman,


If I was at (or near) 28 inches none of this would be an issue

26" at the clicker.

I'm a short fireplug.

Edit:

The shortened sight window of a 23" might hamper things at distance, though... Definitely see a potential for issues there.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

If you want to be "working the limbs" harder, shorter limbs longer riser..

Simple physics, if you move the fulcrum out further, (longer riser) and/or shorten the limbs to achieve the same overall length of bow, you will have to bend the limbs more to achieve the same draw length.
If you leave the limbs the same, and just make the riser longer, you will have a little more leverage (longer distance from pivot point to limb tip) and you will probably not have to bend the limb quite as far to achieve the same draw length, so less stored energy. Usually a longer bow will have a higher brace height as well so less time in contact with the arrow and thus less time to transfer energy, so less energy gets transferred to the arrow.

How much in any direction is pretty minute so

Generally we look at bow length as a comfort issue. Pinch on the fingers, body shape, stacking or smooth draw, etc. Getting a shorter limb/longer riser combo can very slightly change the angle of the string as well. Depending on build of person shooting, (female (or male) with developed upper body) may opt for a shorter bow length for better string clearance and sacrifice comfort on the fingers with a little more finger pinch. Some people would rather have a bow really stack (less comfortable) but willing to give up the comfort here for more arrow speed.

More important, are you getting enough cast and arrow speed to make the target distances you desire?

In the case of longer distances, is it fast enough to get the arrows out of the wind quickly?

As far as grouping, proper tuning _should_ get similar results no matter which combo you decide on.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

MickeyBisco said:


> The shortened sight window of a 23" might hamper things at distance, though... Definitely see a potential for issues there.


And there's that! however the end of the distance impacted will be your short distances. Some people will not have enough space on the top to get to the crossover point at short distances.. (long distance shooting you will always be with the sight pin closer to the arrow than the top of the window) Usually more of a problem if you shoot field ranges or 3d but I do know of a few people that can't make 18M (indoors) with a typical 23" riser. Some will switch anchors (corner of mouth) rather than worry about it.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

toj said:


> There is a female Korean international (whose name escapes me) who at little over 5 foot shoots longs!.


Most of the Korean ladies are 5 foot 2 or less and the bows they shoot are always as tall or taller than them if you watch the videos. They shoot 25 inch risers and medium to long limbs. 

Park Sung Hyun, Ki Bo Bae, Yun oh Hee, Choi E Yung, Kwak J Y, Joo H.J., Jung O.S.M. , Han C.H. to name a few. 

The Japanese ladies also shoot bows taller than they are. I have a 27 inch draw, and shoot a 25 inch riser and long limbs. Medium limbs gave me a finger pinch. But i do give up some FPS. 

Chris


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Yeah, y'all are right. As much as I'd prefer using the medium limbs I've acquired, a 23" riser isn't likely the solution. I'll see about trying some short limbs.

Thank you all for the insights, tremendously helpful buncha folks here!


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm not sure if I am missing it somewhere but did you mention what limbs you are currently using? I see 36lb Medium, What composition/brand etc?

DC


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

dchan said:


> I'm not sure if I am missing it somewhere but did you mention what limbs you are currently using? I see 36lb Medium, What composition/brand etc?
> 
> DC



I'm currently really digging some Medium 34# Samick Extremes, and have 36# Privileges as well that entice me less and less.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Also have a set of medium 30# KAP Carbon Challengers I might try to trade-off for a pair of heavier (36-40) shorts


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

chrstphr said:


> Most of the Korean ladies are 5 foot 2 or less and the bows they shoot are always as tall or taller than them if you watch the videos. They shoot 25 inch risers and medium to long limbs.
> 
> Park Sung Hyun, Ki Bo Bae, Yun oh Hee, Choi E Yung, Kwak J Y, Joo H.J., Jung O.S.M. , Han C.H. to name a few.
> 
> ...


And they don't seem to have accuracy issues!.
I did brief testing for sight marks with shorts and mediums before switching and found little to no difference but the mediums felt more comfortable and the longer bow seemed easier to hold still so went with it.
I suspect slight (to severe) placebo effect but if thats what works......


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Real world speed difference between short and medium limbs is really miniscule, usually from 1 to 2 fps, depending of limbs. Difference is greater with longer draw and between mediums and longs.


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## dchan (Jun 29, 2004)

zal said:


> Real world speed difference between short and medium limbs is really miniscule, usually from 1 to 2 fps, depending of limbs. Difference is greater with longer draw and between mediums and longs.


My point exactly. Generally feel and comfort are the deciding factors.. Theoretical numbers and information will generally give way to what they feel like. When you get "past" the rated draw length, (29-30+") then we may start to see some real FPS differences in limb length comparisons but even then it's generally how they feel.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

If your draw is really short, like 24-25, then it might be hard to get to the working part of the limb and you might need to go to even 64" or 62". 26-27 should be right in the ballpark for medium, modern limbs. But shorts will do just fine if the feeling is ok. Just don't expect any miracles by changing.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

Right on, I dig.


I have just assumed that by falling 2" Short of what these limbs are all rated at (28"), I am also missing out on the flex where they would be the most powerful. I know that whatever limbs I shoot has to be cranked all the way down to get the rated weight out of it, So in the future I'll be buying heavier limbs and loosening them up to get down to where I want to be and I can actually grow up from that. Basically just a little bit backwards from what everyone else does.

Thanks folks! No miracles expected ...just looking for an education!


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## TwilightSea (Apr 16, 2012)

What if you have a 26" DL? I currently am using a 62" bow and I feel like I have a hard time getting my anchor point below my chin and I'm forced to use the edge of my chin. Is my theory correct that my bow is a bit too short for my DL? I'm going to be upgrading my bow in a few months to a 25" riser with short limbs, is that okay for an upgrade length? (I did the arm span /2 method for my DL.)


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## autarchist (Oct 21, 2012)

MickeyBisco said:


> Norman,
> 
> 
> If I was at (or near) 28 inches none of this would be an issue
> ...


Hey, just wondering that what arrows are you using right now? how much spines and how long (excluding point, but including nock)?
I have an exact same problem with you and I can't get the right size of the arrows.


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