# Pic of a black cat that don't exist in Alabama.



## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

I took this from my camera, this isn't an email I received from a cousin's cousin, girlfriend's brother.

This was taken on the Jefferson Cty, Blount Cty line between Pinson and Locust Fork if any of you are familiar.

For size reference that is a 30gallon feeder on 6ft tripod legs. I'm going out there in a bit to see if I have a deer pic to post for size comparison.

What do you guys think it is? Melanistic Bobcat? Long tailed species with the tail down? Keep in mind that Alabama doesn't claim to have any longtailed species of large cats although I can give you 5 or 6 names of people that have seen mountain lions and some even have them on game cameras.


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## erikbarnes25197 (Mar 26, 2006)

well i know its NOT a bobcat, to big and appears to have a tail.

body style fits a mountain lion but never heard or seen a black one. any zoo's near by missing animals? haha


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## crazy4hunting (Feb 4, 2006)

guys around here had pics of wolves long before are dnr did a reinterduction. always makes me laugh.


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## General-08 (Feb 2, 2009)

I'm thinking a very large, domestic cat. If those legs a 6' long, that looks to me like about a 12-14" tall animal. Now I could be very wrong also, but it's what it looks like to me.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Looks like its pretty close to the feeder...if those are 6' legs a mountain lion should be about this tall. About the size of a big black lab or bigger.


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## chriss2375 (Jun 9, 2008)

looks to me like a huge house cat


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## innate123 (Dec 4, 2006)

chriss2375 said:


> looks to me like a huge house cat


That is not a house cat I'd like to cross paths with - very interesting. 

t


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

That is a really short mountain lion.

Got any pics of deer standing in the same general area?


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## Ib4Hoyt (Jan 19, 2004)

chriss2375 said:


> looks to me like a huge house cat


i was thinking a skinny house cat.


How tall is a cougar anyway at the shoulders?


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## Hoyt Hunter (Jan 24, 2006)

reylamb said:


> That is a really short mountain lion.
> 
> Got any pics of deer standing in the same general area?


Well, It might be a house cat. I am not so sure of that though. There are such things as young mountain lions. Not professing to be a expert but I not buying the housecat thing


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2009)

Thats the brock lesnar of house cats


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## WNYBuckHunter (Sep 13, 2009)

If thats any kind of large cat, it is almost dead. Cats are not that thin.

How tall are the legs on that feeder?


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## rod251 (Feb 1, 2007)

It looks like the cat's fur is shadowed in the pic. Also, it's hard to tell if it has a long tail or not, due to the Moultrie cam pic quality. The back legs could be together in a way to make it appear to be long-tailed, but I'm not sure. Definitely not tall enough to be an adult cougar/puma/mountain lion. My vote goes to bobcat. Interesting pic, no doubt.


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## MOC (Jul 4, 2003)

Interesting picture. I wouldn't say it's too small to be a mountain lion, any more than a 5-year old boy would be "too small" to be a human. Gotta start somewhere, don't you?

For that to be a housecat, I'd be very surprised. That would be a huge and long housecat.

It's shaped like a bobcat. A lot of them are thin like that. Maybe a dark bobcat and crappy picture quality? Weird for sure.


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## Brad HT (Dec 9, 2006)

go out and get your picture taken next to the feeder, and then we can photoshop the two pics together and get an idea of size and scale of this cat.


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## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

Looks like a gorilla to me.


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

There have long been reports of PANTHERS as far north as cullman, AL for years. They DO exist in Alabama. Lowndes County WMA area has 2 of the best biologist in the state and they have even seen them there. I would say that cat is old, or sickly, or has done a lot of recent traveling. Either way that is an awesome picture! Here is a link to a little info for ya'll.

http://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/Watchablearticles/blackcats.cfm


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## ohhiitznik (Sep 24, 2008)

Its a loose pitbull.


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## crackedup (Mar 17, 2009)

I think it's a house cat. This is as close as I could get it in CAD for an approx. measurement. If that's a 6' pole, that cat is about 1'-3" tall to it's back, give or take. 
Edit
Wikipedia - Cats *average* about 23–25 centimeters (9–10 in) in height and 46 centimeters (18.1 in) in head/body length (males being larger than females), with tails averaging 30 centimeters (11.8 in) in length. 
I had a Siamese cat that was just over 12" tall.


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## ohhiitznik (Sep 24, 2008)

That is not a housecat. Look at the body shape. The legs and the angle of the pic are misleading. Look at the front shoulder mass. That is a large cat. Could be a panther or a Mountain Lion... Look at how long the chest is... Adolescent panther/cougar is what I'm thinking.


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## ohhiitznik (Sep 24, 2008)

I dont know many housecats that are standing 1'3" at the shoulder either...


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## Yichi (Dec 18, 2008)

ohhiitznik said:


> I dont know many housecats that are standing 1'3" at the shoulder either...


Barry Bonds' cat might...


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## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

On a serious note, is that a really crappy camera, or do you have the resolution forced down as low as possible?


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## Mathias (Mar 21, 2005)

Regular ol' :cat:


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## goatranch (Sep 11, 2004)

Not saying its NOT a panther but a cat that rare showing itself walking relaxed in broad daylight? I DO have a problem with that.


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## gbienvenu (Aug 25, 2008)

Looks like the Florida Black Panther. They say they don't exist outside of Florida, but they have been seen as far as North Louisiana. They don't get much bigger than a large bobcat, so that may be it.

Keep in mind that the biologists and Game and Fish Departments don't want the word to get around too much, but I have seen their tracks and had a friend stuck in his stand for 2 hours by a panther that didn't want to leave.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

ohhiitznik said:


> That is not a housecat. Look at the body shape. The legs and the angle of the pic are misleading. Look at the front shoulder mass. That is a large cat. Could be a panther or a Mountain Lion... Look at how long the chest is... Adolescent panther/cougar is what I'm thinking.


It may be an escaped Jaguar? 

A mountain lion, painter, panther, cougar are all technically the same critter....puma concolor.

They do not come in black.


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## Horses&Hunting (Oct 10, 2007)

Thats neither a house cat or a panther. Just got done looking up on the net and that picture doesn't look like any panther. Might be a wolf or a stray dog of some sort. I can say that it is under fed, as you can tell its skinny.


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## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

gbienvenu said:


> Looks like the Florida Black Panther. They say they don't exist outside of Florida, but they have been seen as far as North Louisiana. They don't get much bigger than a large bobcat, so that may be it.
> 
> Keep in mind that the biologists and Game and Fish Departments don't want the word to get around too much, but I have seen their tracks and had a friend stuck in his stand for 2 hours by a panther that didn't want to leave.


What species cat are you saying it is? A black panther is merely a dark colored large cat, of any species. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_panther


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/black-panther.htm

Here is another sighting in BAMA.


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## mr_evans2u (Feb 27, 2007)

ohhiitznik said:


> That is not a housecat. Look at the body shape. The legs and the angle of the pic are misleading. Look at the front shoulder mass. That is a large cat. Could be a panther or a Mountain Lion... Look at how long the chest is... Adolescent panther/cougar is what I'm thinking.


Agreed I think it is a young panther.


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## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

CowboyJunkie said:


> http://www.thejump.net/multimedia/cougar/black-panther.htm
> 
> Here is another sighting in BAMA.


Why is it that whenever this stuff is captured it's always with a crappy camera? :shade:


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## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

mr_evans2u said:


> Agreed I think it is a young panther.


Leopard, Jaguar, or Cougar? A black variation of any of these would be considered a panther.


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

Come on we poor folks in Alabama. Cant afford them fancy high dollar cameras and such!


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## herTHINGarchery (Oct 12, 2009)

house cat.....least ya hope


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

Im glad to see we have so many wildlife biologist on here! I own 4 cats, 2 males and 2 females who are all VERY well fed and NONE of the FOUR are even remotely close to the size of that cat.


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## whitewolf1 (Jun 28, 2006)

Good luck whackin that critter. If it taste like spotted owl, it will be some fine eatin.


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## tnarb (Aug 26, 2006)

chriss2375 said:


> looks to me like a huge house cat





General-08 said:


> I'm thinking a very large, domestic cat. If those legs a 6' long, that looks to me like about a 12-14" tall animal. Now I could be very wrong also, but it's what it looks like to me.


There are/were black panthers in the SE United States in the past. If you are telling me this is a house cat.......I'm not buying that. That is the body of a wild cat, far too lean to be a house cat.


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## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

tnarb said:


> There are/were black panthers in the SE United States in the past. If you are telling me this is a house cat.......I'm not buying that. That is the body of a wild cat, far too lean to be a house cat.


Every reputable site I can find points out that there is no evidence of there every being a Melanistic Florida Panther. 

http://www.panthersociety.org/faq.html#_Is_there_a_1

Could be something escaped from a zoo or an escaped pet I suppose.


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## bowhunterdave (Dec 1, 2005)

I have that same feeder and just measured it, it is 6'3" to the top of the barrel to the ground. The legs are not 6' long...........


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## gbienvenu (Aug 25, 2008)

RugerRedhawk said:


> What species cat are you saying it is? A black panther is merely a dark colored large cat, of any species.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_panther




This is the best link I can find. I am not I biologist so I am giving the best information I can locate.

http://www.fl-panther.com/facts.htm


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## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

I should have a pic of either me beside the feeder or a deer. I'm heading out there in about an hour and at the very least I'll take a pic with me beside the feeder. 

YES it is a crappy camera but in fairness to moultrie I zoomed in on the pic before posting so it is a little more fuzzy than the actual pic.

No way in heck that's a house cat guys. Like someone pointed it has a massive front shoulder. It's about the size of a lab. 

Now it might be a melanistic bobcat but according to my guess it's atleast 40lbs and over 24" at the shoulder. The person that did the measurement picture isn't calculating that the pic of the cat is a few feet on the other side of the rear leg of the tripod. Bobcats are 20-24" at the shoulder and 16-30lbs...the largest on record was back toward the first of the century and weighed 48lbs.

If it's a large cat species it could be a female. Females are MUCH smaller than males.

From wiki "Adult male bobcats are 28–47 inches (71–120 cm) long, with a short, bobbed tail, and are 18–24 inches (46–61 cm) tall at the shoulder. Females are slightly smaller. Florida panthers are 23–32 inches (58–81 cm) at the shoulder and 5–7 feet (1.5–2.1 m) long, including the tail. Bobcats weigh 16–30 pounds (7.3–14 kg) while Florida panthers are 50–150 pounds (23–68 kg)."

Males typically weigh about 30% more than females.


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

RugerRedhawk said:


> Every reputable site I can find points out that there is no evidence of there every being a Melanistic Florida Panther.
> 
> http://www.panthersociety.org/faq.html#_Is_there_a_1
> 
> Could be something escaped from a zoo or an escaped pet I suppose.


So you believe everything you hear and read! Good for you. Weve seen them. Heck, weve lost dogs to them!! Theres no pythons in the everglades either right! Those were peoples pets at one point that they released into the wild. You dont know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.


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## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

*uhh*

"I have that same feeder and just measured it, it is 6'3" to the top of the barrel to the ground. The legs are not 6' long........... "

No offense but the feeder legs most certainly are 6' long. You could use 3 - 2 ft limbs or 4 -2ft limbs. Plus the legs aren't standing straight up in the air. You are correct the legs aren't 6ft from the top on a 90 degree angle to the ground because they are set up to tripod. Not busting your balls and stuff but it's a little geometry. i.e. you are 6ft tall but if you lay at an angle your head isn't 6ft from the ground...make sense? 

It doesn't matter how tall the feeder is, I gave the leg specifications so you can get an approximate based on some measurable. Not to mention the cat is a few feet past the last leg and from the center of the barrell to the outer edge of the leg would be more of what I'm interested in finding out...then figure a few feet further for the cat. I'll go out there with my personal camera and take some pics for reference.


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## RugerRedhawk (Oct 15, 2008)

georgiabuckdan said:


> So you believe everything you hear and read! Good for you. Weve seen them. Heck, weve lost dogs to them!! Theres no pythons in the everglades either right! Those were peoples pets at one point that they released into the wild. You dont know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.


If I believed everything I read I'd believe that a Melanistic Florida Panther ate your dog.


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

308plainsman said:


> "I have that same feeder and just measured it, it is 6'3" to the top of the barrel to the ground. The legs are not 6' long........... "
> 
> No offense but the feeder legs most certainly are 6' long. You could use 3 - 2 ft limbs or 4 -2ft limbs. Plus the legs aren't standing straight up in the air. You are correct the legs aren't 6ft from the top on a 90 degree angle to the ground because they are set up to tripod. Not busting your balls and stuff but it's a little geometry. i.e. you are 6ft tall but if you lay at an angle your head isn't 6ft from the ground...make sense?
> 
> It doesn't matter how tall the feeder is, I gave the leg specifications so you can get an approximate based on some measurable. Not to mention the cat is a few feet past the last leg and from the center of the barrell to the outer edge of the leg would be more of what I'm interested in finding out...then figure a few feet further for the cat. I'll go out there with my personal camera and take some pics for reference.


Aesome! You guys sure it wasnt mbp?


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## birdgunner (Sep 10, 2008)

*Feral Maine ****?*

Anyone ever have/seen a Maine **** Cat? A male can get up to 16" tall and 20+ lbs and 40 inches o/a in length... a thought.


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## crackedup (Mar 17, 2009)

Another measurement which include length. By request.
I would also like to say that these are approximate measurements based on the 6' length of the closest tripod leg to the cat. I scaled the picture up to fit and exact 6' length. The length of the leg was stated in the first post. Now if it is in fact 6'-3" to the top of the barrel. Then no question that is a house cat.

Edit: Agree with CowboyJunkie. The angle is unknown and would affect measurements. Not real sure how far the cat is behind the leg either. It looks very close to broadside, very close to poll. So as I said before, these measurements are approximate. Not real sure how much fuzz from distortion of the picture I'm measuring either.


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## affe22 (Sep 29, 2005)

There never has been a confirmed black mountain lion/cougar/panther in history. I doubt all black cougars escaped their near extirpation during the 19th century. If it is cougar size, it would have to be an escapee jaguar or leopard. Lots of people keep exotic pets legally and illegally and some times get rid of them when they become too much to handle.

I personally think house cat or possibly a melanistic bobcat (which have been seen).


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

affe22 said:


> *There never has been a confirmed black mountain lion/cougar/panther in history*. I doubt all black cougars escaped their near extirpation during the 19th century. If it is cougar size, it would have to be an escapee jaguar or leopard. Lots of people keep exotic pets legally and illegally and some times get rid of them when they become too much to handle.
> 
> I personally think house cat or possibly a melanistic bobcat (which have been seen).


Really? Hmm.



> Science only recognizes two types of *legitimate black panther*. One is the black color phase of the leopard (an animal found in Africa, Asia and, in historical times, parts of Europe). The other is the black color phase of the jaguar (an animal found in South America and Central America, with a historic range that once penetrated into much of the southern United States)


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## jdamet (Jul 25, 2009)

To me, it looks like that cat is behind the feeder a little ways. I think its bigger then you guys think it is. But thats just my opinion, I am usually wrong.:wink:


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## georgiabuckdan (Dec 17, 2007)

RugerRedhawk said:


> If I believed everything I read I'd believe that a Melanistic Florida Panther ate your dog.


:cheers: I think thats one of the best replies I have ever heard here on AT. Is mbp real?


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## CowboyJunkie (Oct 9, 2008)

crackedup said:


> Another measurement which include length. By request.
> I would also like to say that these are approximate measurements based on the 6' length of the closest tripod leg to the cat. I scaled the picture up to fit and exact 6' length. The length of the leg was stated in the first post. Now if it is in fact 6'-3" to the top of the barrel. Then no question that is a house cat.


Good scaling except for the fact that the cat is walking at an angle away from the camera. It makes that cat look shorter in length than it actually is. a true brodside photo would show the difference and give you a better scale to go off of.


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## fxdwgkd (Oct 6, 2009)

Not a dark pigmented young mountain lion. The head is to big in proporsion to the body. Mountain lions have a relatively small head in comparison to their body.


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## crackedup (Mar 17, 2009)

Edited to state angle is unknown. Also not sure on how much distortion from the pic I'm measuring. Don't shoot the measurement guy. I have seen wild house cats that people drop off around my feeders before also. Really good place for birds, squirrels and other small creatures. The wild one's I have seen look very close to that, very lean.


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## affe22 (Sep 29, 2005)

jbo3 said:


> Really? Hmm.


I guess you missed where I was using panther as a regional term for _Puma concolor_. Clearly I know there are black leopards and black jaguars as I have said that was the two options but they are not "panthers" in the sense that they are the same species as a mountain lion. Panther, mountain lion, cougar, catamount, etc. are all common names for _Puma concolor_ and not the other two mentioned cats. You almost had a good point though.


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## Jwillman6 (Jun 4, 2007)

I live in Colorado now, but I grew up in Alabama, and there have been black cats (long tail variety)seen for as long as I remember. In the early 80's a friend and I were driving back to our hunting lease and we saw something big and black and it was not a dog. We still have no explanation for what it was.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

> Science only recognizes two types of legitimate black panther. One is the black color phase of the leopard (an animal found in Africa, Asia and, in historical times, parts of Europe). The other is the black color phase of the jaguar *(an animal found in South America and Central America, with a historic range that once penetrated into much of the southern United States)*


The bolded portion above is lazy writing, and extremely misleading.

Yes, black Jaguars have been documented. In fact, roughly 6% of Jaguars are black. However, the majority of those black Jaguars are found in the Amazon Basin of South America, and there has NEVER been a recorded case of a black Jaguar north of the central Amazon Basin.

This means that there has not been any black Jags in the USA.

There are no black Florida Panthers, nor are there any black mountain lions, puma`s, painters. They do not possess the gene responsible for extreme melanoma, sometimes referred to as hyper melanoma.


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## blackngold51 (Mar 28, 2008)

affe22 said:


> there never has been a confirmed black mountain lion/cougar/panther in history. I doubt all black cougars escaped their near extirpation during the 19th century. If it is cougar size, it would have to be an escapee jaguar or leopard. Lots of people keep exotic pets legally and illegally and some times get rid of them when they become too much to handle.
> 
> I personally think house cat or possibly a melanistic bobcat (which have been seen).


truth!


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## savedbygrace (Nov 16, 2005)

Brad HT said:


> go out and get your picture taken next to the feeder, and then we can photoshop the two pics together and get an idea of size and scale of this cat.


This


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## maxx532 (Feb 24, 2007)

Interesting thread.... And I haven't got a clue.. My first thought was housecat... Maybe canine of some sort.. Don't know... body size and shape doesn't fit anything perfectly... at least that I'm familiar with... Oh, by the way, I had a mountain lion for a pet.

Far as I know, and what biology teaches. There are no black mountain lions.

Best guess: Some type of exotic, escaped from captivity.


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## OneScrewLoose (Feb 18, 2009)

You my friend, have a genuine Florida Panther. Indeed they are black and close to the same size as a mountain lion, with same stature, you'll probably never see another one!!!


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## skipreid (Sep 3, 2008)

Looks like a black panther to me. You hear people say they sound like a woman screaming...well..I have heard that sound here in south Mississippi, and that is exactly what it sounded like. I don't know what animal made the sound, but I actually thought it was a woman screaming and called my neighbor to see what all the screaming was about. She said it wasn't her. So...


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## Fletch NY (Sep 23, 2008)

I am going with bobcat, that is just what the body shape and relative size tell me. I also do not think it is black. The crappy camera and shadowing makes it look black. 

P.S. not a knock on your cam, good ones are not cheap and they seem to have legs of their own!


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

OneScrewLoose said:


> You my friend, have a genuine Florida Panther. Indeed they are black and close to the same size as a mountain lion, with same stature, you'll probably never see another one!!!


Would you happen to have any verified pictures, along with a single shred of scientific data to back up that claim?

Puma Concolors do not come in black.....that includes the Florida strain panther.


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## ohhiitznik (Sep 24, 2008)

That isn't a house cat. Look at the damn body shape. Who has a housecat with big burly shoulders and a long slender body? Please post pics of him so we can see. This is a wild cat of some sort. And its black in color. Call it a panther, mountain lion whatever, but its not a "dog" and its not a "housecat" Maybe an escaped exotic pet, but that doesnt mean its not a Panther.


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## LawrenceArchery (Oct 18, 2007)

Well I'm pretty sure a friend and I saw a mountain lion here in NW Alabama coming home from a hunting trip one night. It was the color of a mountain lion and had a long tail. We both just caught a glimpse of it jumping straight up out of a ditch along side the road into the woods and then it was gone. We both thought that's what we saw.


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## Martial Archer (Jun 8, 2003)

*How about...*

a Sulawezi Macaque?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quantum-conservation.org/EEP/macacanigra.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.quantum-conservation.org/EEP/SULAWESI%2520CRESTED%2520MACAQUE.html&usg=__JhQATsAMzO756wP-JynGkkbTXN0=&h=400&w=435&sz=126&hl=en&start=69&um=1&tbnid=yyaBrQwpFnZR1M:&tbnh=116&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsulawesi%2Bmacaques%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7ADBF_en%26sa%3DN%26start%3D54%26um%3D1

Any primate facilities in your area? Looks like a sub-adult male to me. And yes, I worked with these and other macaques for 12 long years.


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## LeftemLeakin (Feb 19, 2007)

RugerRedhawk said:


> Why is it that whenever this stuff is captured it's always with a crappy camera? :shade:



Maybe you would be nice enough to buy him a fancy camera instead of complaining about his "crappy" camera. :thumbs_do


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

Melanistic bobcat is what I'm calling it. I can't really make out a tail in the given photo.

If not that, then I'll go for big black feral cat.


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## jbo3 (May 17, 2003)

Big Country said:


> Would you happen to have any verified pictures, along with a single shred of scientific data to back up that claim?
> 
> Puma Concolors do not come in black.....that includes the Florida strain panther.


Who's talking puma concolors?

We're talking panthera onca.


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## TXJIMWA (Oct 28, 2007)

Sorry, left my gate open. She is back in now


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

Meow.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

The original picture in this thread looks like a cat of some type to me. It does not look like a dog?

My daughter has a big tomcat that weighs slightly more than 16 pounds now, and he is not shaped even close to what we see in the picture. I do not think we are looking at a house cat.

Look at this picture, then follow the provided link and read the article concerning Jaguarundi`s. Jaguarundi`s are capable of being black.










http://www.anomalist.com/features/jag.html


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## pizzle (Jul 28, 2004)

Wow. A bunch of true experts in biology, genetics, photos, depth perception.

This is just funny. 

And: That does not look like a plain ol housecat to me either.


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## kaborkian (May 26, 2007)

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...mage_result&resnum=2&ct=image&ved=0CAkQ9QEwAQ


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

jbo3 said:


> Who's talking puma concolors?
> 
> *We're talking panthera onca*.



 Heck, if we are gonna try to call it a cougar, might as well go for Jaguar while we are at it.:shade:


BTW, the Puma Concolor Coryi, more commonly known as the Florida panther has a diet that mainly consists of whitetail deer.

Google is your friend.:thumbs_up


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

no way is that a house cat. i owned many cats and not one was even vlose looking to that thing.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

kaborkian said:


> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...mage_result&resnum=2&ct=image&ved=0CAkQ9QEwAQ



You might have a winner here!:thumbs_up

They sure look different when they are black.


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## TXJIMWA (Oct 28, 2007)

Big Country said:


> The original picture in this thread looks like a cat of some type to me. It does not look like a dog?
> 
> My daughter has a big tomcat that weighs slightly more than 16 pounds now, and he is not shaped even close to what we see in the picture. I do not think we are looking at a house cat.
> 
> ...


Well then>>>


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## maxx532 (Feb 24, 2007)

OneScrewLoose said:


> You my friend, have a genuine Florida Panther. Indeed they are black and close to the same size as a mountain lion, with same stature, you'll probably never see another one!!!


 Please show us some photos.. And some genetic info... Thanks in advance


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Guess he told me! :chortle:


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## SMOKES (Feb 28, 2008)

308plainsman said:


> I took this from my camera, this isn't an email I received from a cousin's cousin, girlfriend's brother.
> 
> This was taken on the Jefferson Cty, Blount Cty line between Pinson and Locust Fork if any of you are familiar.
> 
> ...


some folks call them cats black panthers
screams like a woman
spooky


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## ydduit (Oct 11, 2009)

Oppossum...Definately a oppossum...:darkbeer:


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## AZ.Hunter8 (Oct 28, 2007)

bowhunterdave said:


> I have that same feeder and just measured it, it is 6'3" to the top of the barrel to the ground. The legs are not 6' long...........


Well that changes the whole equation. Very interesting!


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## bigcountry1219 (Jul 31, 2009)

I hope the guys that are calling it a house cat are joking. That cat is clearly bigger than any house cat. As for referencing the length of the feeder legs - the cat is behind the feeder, which makes it look far smaller than it really is - kind of like when you take a picture of a fish, you hold it out as far as you can, because it makes it look bigger.


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## Jwillman6 (Jun 4, 2007)

It does have some features of a bobcat and yes bobcats can be black. If this is a house cat it is a big one. How far from a house is this?


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## G20 (Jan 31, 2008)

I know the tripod leg is blocking part of the body but where the stomach meets the back half looks out of whack compared to the middle and front.


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## TXJIMWA (Oct 28, 2007)

G20 said:


> I know the tripod leg is blocking part of the body but where the stomach meets the back half looks out of whack compared to the middle and front.


Like this


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## varmint101 (May 8, 2008)

Not sure why that has to be a cat and not a dog. I've personally never seen a cat with such a shallow waist.


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## --Defender--> (Feb 18, 2005)

2 words... BIG... Foot... walking on all four's of course.


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## CAPTJJ (Dec 24, 2007)

Black house kitty with a white belly. 










And some really want it to be the elusive "black panther".


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## bama bow nut (Apr 13, 2008)

its a chupacabra:thumbs_up


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## jdcamo (Sep 18, 2006)

House cat. For sure.
Here is a pic of a cougar next to my buddy for reference.


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## crackedup (Mar 17, 2009)

CAPTJJ said:


> Black house kitty with a white belly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


meow....


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## TXJIMWA (Oct 28, 2007)

jdcamo said:


> House cat. For sure.
> Here is a pic of a cougar next to my buddy for reference.


Did he take the leash off before or after he shot it:mg:


j/k


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## FLDartonGuy (Jul 23, 2008)

bama bow nut said:


> its a chupacabra:thumbs_up


I am voting with this guy. ROFLMAO!!!:thumbs_up


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## nthewild (Jul 6, 2006)

i seem to be way outnumbered here, but i am saying a dog. obviously has a wide chest and shallow waist. i think we can all agree that quality isn't very good. could have a short muzzle or it might have its head turned just slightly, hiding the true length of the muzzle. i don't think it is any kind of cat though


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## atwanamaker (Jul 12, 2006)

nthewild said:


> i seem to be way outnumbered here, but i am saying a dog. obviously has a wide chest and shallow waist. i think we can all agree that quality isn't very good. could have a short muzzle or it might have its head turned just slightly, hiding the true length of the muzzle. i don't think it is any kind of cat though


i agree


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## CptKaos (Oct 2, 2009)

*looks like.....*

a big starving black house cat. Doesnt look anything like a bobcat, shape is all wrong, bobcats arent long and their hind legs normaly look longer than the front

Larry


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## General-08 (Feb 2, 2009)

CAPTJJ said:


> Black house kitty with a white belly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly !!! :darkbeer:


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

CptKaos said:


> a big starving black house cat. Doesnt look anything like a bobcat, shape is all wrong, bobcats arent long and their hind legs normaly look longer than the front
> 
> Larry


Here is a picture of a black bobcat.....looks pretty close to me?


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## kansasboi (Oct 19, 2007)

Big Country said:


> Here is a picture of a black bobcat.....looks pretty close to me?


looks the same to me too. heres some more info on that pic..http://www.michigancougar.com/black.htm


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## landon607 (Nov 5, 2007)

After reading all this . Im going with the black bobcat that I had no idea there was such a thing. Could be a black house cat with a white belly also ,like mentioned above,.

Cats are so cool. They always make people talk.


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## affe22 (Sep 29, 2005)

pizzle said:


> Wow. A bunch of true experts in biology, genetics, photos, depth perception.


You've gotta watch it because there are a number of people well-versed in at least biology and genetics on this forum :thumbs_up.


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

gbienvenu said:


> Looks like the Florida Black Panther. They say they don't exist outside of Florida, but they have been seen as far as North Louisiana. They don't get much bigger than a large bobcat, so that may be it.
> 
> Keep in mind that the biologists and Game and Fish Departments don't want the word to get around too much, but I have seen their tracks and had a friend stuck in his stand for 2 hours by a panther that didn't want to leave.


yeah man i would not buy the size of a bobcat thing. i have seen some pretty big panthers. alot bigger than a dam bobcat. their is one that comes thru my place we see it about 1 a year. and find the tracks all the time. seen the tracks in the front yard when we looked at the property so he was here first.


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## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

*New thread with new analysis pics..*

I started a new thread guys with new pictures taken today for size comparison...I'd love for some of you guys to break down the measurements. This thing isn't to much smaller than a 100lb lab as you'll see in the pics. No way in heck it's a house cat.


http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1056113501#post1056113501


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

12bhunting said:


> yeah man i would not buy the size of a bobcat thing. i have seen some pretty big panthers. alot bigger than a dam bobcat. their is one that comes thru my place we see it about 1 a year. and find the tracks all the time. seen the tracks in the front yard when we looked at the property so he was here first.


Size aside......a Florida panther is a subspecies of a regular old mountain lion.

mountain lion= puma concolor
florida panther= puma concolor coryi

They are not able to come in black. They do not possess the gene responsible for that color. When you see a picture of a black cat, it might be an escaped Jaguar, or a wild bobcat, or even a wild jaguarundi, but it can NOT be a mountain lion or Florida panther.


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## rgm381 (Aug 31, 2009)

not sure what it is, but I will say there is an exotic pet dealer in the Hayden area so it could be something exotic that escaped


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## Rford (Jul 24, 2008)

*House cat*

The guy with the Cad and mathematics pretty much answers the question...its a fairly normal size house cat. Math.


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## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

Rford said:


> The guy with the Cad and mathematics pretty much answers the question...its a fairly normal size house cat. Math.


uhh, except they didn't take into account that the cat was about 15 feet past the rear leg of the tripod. See my link two or three post up for more detailed pictures taken today.


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## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

rgm381 said:


> not sure what it is, but I will say there is an exotic pet dealer in the Hayden area so it could be something exotic that escaped


Could be...this is more on the HWY 79 side closer to Pinson, not quite to Locust Fork.


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## OneScrewLoose (Feb 18, 2009)

Ok, so either I stand wrong, but I could swear on my short life the Florida Panther at Lowry in Tampa was dang near midnight black!!! It wasn't too big, but I don't know how many times I was there to see that one!!! But there are Black Panthers, but I could definitely be wrong on the Florida Panther part, I've only ever seen one outside of the zoo, didn't stick around long, and never heard it leave!!!


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## Mikegb88 (Aug 17, 2007)

Do you have any pictures of Deer under the feeder or you under the feeder? 

My bet is either a Jaguarundi, or a Bobcat.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Mikegb88 said:


> Do you have any pictures of Deer under the feeder or you under the feeder?
> 
> My bet is either a Jaguarundi, or a Bobcat.


I agree with your guess....

Here is another thread the OP started with the pics you are looking for...

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1061794


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## crooked stick (Jul 1, 2006)

skipreid said:


> Looks like a black panther to me. You hear people say they sound like a woman screaming...well..I have heard that sound here in south Mississippi, and that is exactly what it sounded like. I don't know what animal made the sound, but I actually thought it was a woman screaming and called my neighbor to see what all the screaming was about. She said it wasn't her. So...


Did you go back to bed after that or go investigate?


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## Quicksliver (Nov 22, 2006)

skipreid said:


> Looks like a black panther to me. You hear people say they sound like a woman screaming...well..I have heard that sound here in south Mississippi, and that is exactly what it sounded like. I don't know what animal made the sound, but I actually thought it was a woman screaming and called my neighbor to see what all the screaming was about. She said it wasn't her. So...


Anybody ever heard what a Red Fox sounds like? Just asking.

Lions don't scream like a woman.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Quicksliver said:


> Anybody ever heard what a Red Fox sounds like? Just asking.
> 
> Lions don't scream like a woman.


I never heard a red fox make a peep?

Bobcats scream kinda like a baby, could be considered like a woman.


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## txsbowhunter (Nov 9, 2009)

*.....*

wow ... thats defenetly interesting .... i have a similar picture ... ill try to post it someday ... im wont be impressed if i see this picture in like a monster hunting show ... you know the ones that look for like hogzilla and bigfoot and stuff... yeah if that pole is 6' tall then that cat looks like 16''... defenetly a lil biger than you average house cat .... but you never know... have an expert look at this ....


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## ghak99 (Nov 9, 2005)

Quicksliver said:


> Anybody ever heard what a Red Fox sounds like? Just asking.


Yes, I have. 

I spent the better part of a half hour putting a stalk on an odd repetitive sound I was sure was coming from an electronic call of some sort. I was more than surprised when I discovered the source of the sound........a Red Fox screaming over and over again at a monster of a yellow tom cat sleeping in the sun on top of a brush pile above what appeared to be a fox den. I spooked the fox on my way back in after going to get my Nikon and long range lens after deciding I needed pictures of the ordeal. 

You would have thought they were an old married couple as I know for a fact that fox screamed at that cat every thirty seconds or so for the better part of an hour and the cat just kept laying there with the selective hearing turned on.:darkbeer:


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## bowhunt3r (Jan 10, 2007)

*Not quite sure what it is exactly but makes ya think...*

IMHO when people start talking about "panthers" they have in mind a mountain lion but that also is a common name for a jaguar as well. This country used to have a very good population of jaguars( leopards are from Africa) until the settlers that came hunted them basically to extinction and pushed the rest of them south to Mexico. They are seeing a small population of jaguars in Texas and have been photographed in Arizona as well. It only makes sense that they would go east as well. Now as for the black color I have never seen a black mountain lion, and not saying they dont exist, but the black color is common in jaguars especially if you have a small breeding population because the black color gene would be a dominate one that would be passed along. I don't know what exactly is in your picture but I'm quite certain that it isn't a house cat. If someone does have a picture of a black mountain loin I would love to see it!


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

bowhunt3r said:


> IMHO when people start talking about "panthers" they have in mind a mountain lion but that also is a common name for a jaguar as well. This country used to have a very good population of jaguars( leopards are from Africa) until the settlers that came hunted them basically to extinction and pushed the rest of them south to Mexico. They are seeing a small population of jaguars in Texas and have been photographed in Arizona as well. It only makes sense that they would go east as well. Now as for the black color I have never seen a black mountain lion, and not saying they dont exist, but the black color is common in jaguars especially if you have a small breeding population because the black color gene would be a dominate one that would be passed along. I don't know what exactly is in your picture but I'm quite certain that it isn't a house cat. If someone does have a picture of a black mountain loin I would love to see it!


6% of all Jaguars are black. However, almost all of the black Jaguar population is found in the Amazon Basin of South America, and there has never been a documented black Jaguar north of the central Amazon Basin.


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## Cthuntfish (Sep 9, 2005)

thats not true.

Here is the first documented case of a melanistic jaguar in Mexico.

http://dinets.travel.ru/blackjaguar.htm


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## Cthuntfish (Sep 9, 2005)

The other thing to remember is that there are other small species of cats that have survived in the US. Florida has a small black cat that is native to central america and I'm sure there are others. Even here in CT we've had a few occasions where african cats (like a house cat but bigger) have escaped or been let go. Obviously they aren't reproducing here naturally but it doesn't remove the possibility of them being here.


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## xforcer (Oct 14, 2009)

I dont think yall get it.
Yall ever heard of babies growin up?
I think its a baby black couger.


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## El Boone (May 25, 2009)

tnarb said:


> There are/were black panthers in the SE United States in the past. If you are telling me this is a house cat.......I'm not buying that. That is the body of a wild cat, far too lean to be a house cat.


Maybe its not a house cat. Maybe its a feral cat???

Ive seen and killed some pretty big toms that im sure have been wild since the day they were weaned.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Cthuntfish said:


> thats not true.
> 
> Here is the first documented case of a melanistic jaguar in Mexico.
> 
> http://dinets.travel.ru/blackjaguar.htm


WOW! I have spent a fair amount of time researching this subject, and I have never heard a peep about this before?

Thanks for the link.:smile:


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

xforcer said:


> I dont think yall get it.
> Yall ever heard of babies growin up?
> I think its a baby black couger.


There are a lot of things I don`t get.

Cougars cannot be black. It may be another type of cat, but it ain`t a cougar.


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## telephone man (Dec 26, 2007)

looks like a skinny black lab with a block head and his tail tucked between his legs to me


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## Kelleborne (Jan 26, 2009)

_*Melanistic Bobcat*_, rare and furtive creatures. But real, nonetheless...


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## Elkvalleyhunter (Oct 26, 2009)

I've seen quite a few cougars (mtn lions, and a few middle aged women in the bar) and none have looked even close to that! Totally wrong body shape, too skinny, especially for a kitten.


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## pabuckslayer08 (Nov 19, 2008)

Is there a such thing as a black fox, It doesnt really have fox features at its head but its just not appearing to me as a large house cat


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## excal66 (Mar 11, 2009)

the way its chest/stomach area curves up into itself makes it look dog like but that face is stubby and blocky so who knows.-----There is no way this is a housecat....


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## CWG (Nov 20, 2003)

Black bobcat, yup


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## martinmania (Aug 20, 2007)

bowhunt3r said:


> IMHO when people start talking about "panthers" they have in mind a mountain lion but that also is a common name for a jaguar as well. This country used to have a very good population of jaguars( leopards are from Africa) until the settlers that came hunted them basically to extinction and pushed the rest of them south to Mexico. They are seeing a small population of jaguars in Texas and have been photographed in Arizona as well. It only makes sense that they would go east as well. Now as for the black color I have never seen a black mountain lion, and not saying they dont exist, but the black color is common in jaguars especially if you have a small breeding population because the black color gene would be a dominate one that would be passed along. I don't know what exactly is in your picture but I'm quite certain that it isn't a house cat. If someone does have a picture of a black mountain loin I would love to see it!


Its not just pics in az, game and fish caught one and collared it


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinchilla

Go check the status of this guy, and then read the rest of my post.


Saw one of these on the edge of a bean feild in Tippo, MS bout 10 years ago, decribed him to my buddy that owned the land he says thats was a Chinchilla! I said a what? Chinchilla, it seems not to far back in the day a guy had raised these few miles down the road until the market flopped so he let about 10,000 of em go, guess what? they still there.


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

I hear word of mouth that is the favorite dinner of a FL black panther!:darkbeer:


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## Nyles (Jul 15, 2009)

Kelleborne said:


> _*Melanistic Bobcat*_, rare and furtive creatures. But real, nonetheless...


post the link to that critter


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## Twitch (Oct 14, 2007)

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/07blk-bobcat/


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## EricO (Nov 24, 2004)

Is it a shooter?


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## Twitch (Oct 14, 2007)

Big Country said:


> WOW! I have spent a fair amount of time researching this subject, and I have never heard a peep about this before?
> 
> Thanks for the link.:smile:


This is the first I have read about a melanistic puma, or did I misread the artical? I have read alot of stuff about them not possesing the gene for melanism.????


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Twitch said:


> This is the first I have read about a melanistic puma, or did I misread the artical? I have read alot of stuff about them not possesing the gene for melanism.????


Not a puma, a panthera onca........Jaguar. Jags can be black, but this is the first documented black Jag north of the central amazon basin....and it is WAY north.:thumbs_up


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## LA Hunter (Mar 3, 2006)

*It's a Panther*

My son saw one just like this cross the road in Northern Henry County here in SE A.L. where we hunted for two years. The hunting club next to us had seen it also several times. I do Home Health Rehab in this area and have asked some of my patients about it and more than one has informed me these cats have come in from Florida over the years and migrated north along the major rivers. I saw one of the native tan colored cats cross the road here in Coffee County about 5 years ago, they are native to AL and protected but you can shoot the black ones which aren't. That is what the game warden told my club president a few years ago.:darkbeer:


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## Twitch (Oct 14, 2007)

Big Country said:


> Not a puma, a panthera onca........Jaguar. Jags can be black, but this is the first documented black Jag north of the central amazon basin....and it is WAY north.:thumbs_up


I reread the artical and it mentions puma concolor right above the sketch of the print...???


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## WUD DUK (Nov 3, 2009)

My guess would also be a black panther. We've had several sightings here in Missouri years ago. Although the conservation department claims we have no such thing. I told the agent he was FULLAS**T because I damn near hit one with my car after leaving my girlfriends house one night. That was back in the fall of 93! And no I wasn't drunk or anything!! They do exist!!


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## Rothhar1 (Apr 1, 2007)

Wild House cat!


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## MHansel (Jan 8, 2005)

It's too big for a house cat, I'd say it's a Florida Black Panther IMHO


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## PA.JAY (May 26, 2004)

Florida Black Panther yep.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Twitch said:


> I reread the artical and it mentions puma concolor right above the sketch of the print...???


I had to go back and look again as I missed it the first time through. This is surprising to me, and the only time I have ever seen someone with a working knowledge of this subject mention puma concolor. I would like to know how the author came to this conclusion when every article I have ever read by biologists state one of two things....

1. There has never been a documented case of a melanistic(full melanism)puma concolor.
2. Puma concolors do not possess the gene responsible for full melanism.

I had several documents stored on my PC laptop, but like most PC`s, it crapped out with little warning. Guess I will have to dig some up again.

I have never seen anything close to a documented case of a black cougar.


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## work2hunt&fish (Nov 13, 2009)

Hard to say the size. It looks to be behind the feeder by several feet. You would have to find its track and stand there to get a good a picture for relative hieght. JMO It sure isn't a house cat though.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Here is an excerpt from one genetic paper on puma concolor...



> Cougar coloring is plain (hence the Latin concolor) but can vary greatly between individuals and even between siblings. The coat is typically tawny, but ranges to silvery-grey or reddish, with lighter patches on the under body including the jaws, chin, and throat. Infants are spotted and born with blue eyes and rings on their tails;[19] juveniles are pale, and dark spots remain on their flanks.[18] Despite anecdotes to the contrary, all-black coloring (melanism) has never been documented in cougars.[25] The term "black panther" is used colloquially to refer to melanistic individuals of other species, particularly jaguars and leopards.[26]


A link to another scientific article.....

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0960982203001283


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## Twitch (Oct 14, 2007)

Big Country said:


> Here is an excerpt from one genetic paper on puma concolor...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wasn't questioning your stance on the mulanistic puma. I have researched and scoured the net, scientific journals, etc. and all the info I have read is in agreement with your stance. I was questioning the info in the origonal link though.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Twitch said:


> I wasn't questioning your stance on the mulanistic puma. I have researched and scoured the net, scientific journals, etc. and all the info I have read is in agreement with your stance. I was questioning the info in the origonal link though.


Hey man, i like to have the facts. If there is something out there disputing the data I have found, I want to know about it.:thumbs_up

I appreciate you pointing that out to me.


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## swbuckmaster (Dec 20, 2005)

I am 5'8" tall this is a 135lb cougar It is a young half grown 2.5 year old cougar.

just imagine me standing next to those 6' legs which are at an angle and you will have a size reference needed to determine what it is. You are also getting dooped by the author of this thread. He has not shown any more photos from this camera. His moultree camera should take a photo ten times better then it did. so I am guessing he is pulling all your middle legs.

What you are looking at is a house cat. 

My friend had a depredation tag this year for cougars. He put his name on a list to take a problem cougar. he got a call from the division of wildlife officer that said to come out and shoot a cougar in this ladies yard. when he arriaved the division said it is over in the tree. when my friend went over to the tree there was a huge orange house cat sitting in the tree. It must have weighed 40lbs but it was no cougar.


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## Lung Buster 371 (Feb 11, 2006)

hansel said:


> It's too big for a house cat, I'd say it's a Florida Black Panther IMHO


Sorry to spoil your Black Panther party there Forrest. I grew up in the FL Panhandle and have seen Florida Panthers on several occasions. They are not Black. They range in different shades of tan and reddish brown.

The 1st one I ever saw was while **** hunting late at night. She was in the swamp with us. Even with being muddy and wet she was not as dark as the one in the photo.


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## turkeykiller22 (Jul 10, 2008)

OK, my dad is a vet in Alabama, he has had MANY clients with big cats such as the one in the picture. He says that most people buy these cats and then realized that they dont have enough money to feed them, so they just let them go. We have had numerous sightings of big black cats like this in Alabama. Just my 2 cents worth


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## JJHACK (Jun 21, 2004)

It's not a kitten or a young adult. Look close at the body shape and it's easy to see it's not in that Adolescent body shape all juvenile predatory animals have. Whether puppies or kittens this is not the body shape of a young or juvenile animal. 

Further it is not the young or a baby of this animal. I'm 5'10" and this cougar is 205 lbs. Do you really thing for a second the animal in that photo is the young of this animal? Come on......... just look at the proportions here! Yearling cougars and even a kitten cougar would dwarf the cat in this picture. Cougars of just a few weeks to a month old are so much heavier and with thicker and more fuzzy furred bodies. 

I live in lion country and have killed quite a number of them. This is no more a cougar then it is a trout.


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## Aggieland (Jun 23, 2007)

JJHACK said:


> It's not a kitten or a young adult. Look close at the body shape and it's easy to see it's not in that Adolescent body shape all juvenile predatory animals have. Whether puppies or kittens this is not the body shape of a young or juvenile animal.
> 
> Further it is not the young or a baby of this animal. I'm 5'10" and this cougar is 205 lbs. Do you really thing for a second the animal in that photo is the young of this animal? Come on......... just look at the proportions here! Yearling cougars and even a kitten cougar would dwarf the cat in this picture. Cougars of just a few weeks to a month old are so much heavier and with thicker and more fuzzy furred bodies.
> 
> I live in lion country and have killed quite a number of them. This is no more a cougar then it is a trout.



Man when you see these things up against a person you get a whole new understanding of respect for them.. I hunt the West often and never consider what one of these bad boys could really do to ya if they wanted..


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## ScottGray (Aug 27, 2009)

Here is a picture of a "cat" and its tracks that my brother took across the road from his house. He lives in the Bradford area, Jefferson county (very close to Pinson) I hunt the land adjoining this property and have found 2 deer carcasses(sp) Found the first one and went back after the season for another look and the 2nd one was about 3 feet from the first. Kinda makes yer butt pucker up when leaving the stand after dark
As a side note. I posted these pics on another Archery site and we were lambasted and attacked for saying Mountain Lions exist in Alabama. We have been seeing tracks for years.


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## ScottGray (Aug 27, 2009)

Don't know why the cat pic is smaller. Forgot to mention that our mother said " I saw the biggest cat" one day after her evening walk. I asked what was it doing? her reply of it was crouched down watching me. She now carrys a pistol on her evening walks.


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## martinmania (Aug 20, 2007)

JJHACK said:


> It's not a kitten or a young adult. Look close at the body shape and it's easy to see it's not in that Adolescent body shape all juvenile predatory animals have. Whether puppies or kittens this is not the body shape of a young or juvenile animal.
> 
> Further it is not the young or a baby of this animal. I'm 5'10" and this cougar is 205 lbs. Do you really thing for a second the animal in that photo is the young of this animal? Come on......... just look at the proportions here! Yearling cougars and even a kitten cougar would dwarf the cat in this picture. Cougars of just a few weeks to a month old are so much heavier and with thicker and more fuzzy furred bodies.
> 
> I live in lion country and have killed quite a number of them. This is no more a cougar then it is a trout.


dude holy crap thats an amazing cat congrats on that beast


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## Slippyshaft (Dec 20, 2008)

*kitty*

Looks like a house kitty to me, but he's a crappy hunter.


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## BowHunterFett (Nov 21, 2009)

JJHACK said:


> It's not a kitten or a young adult. Look close at the body shape and it's easy to see it's not in that Adolescent body shape all juvenile predatory animals have. Whether puppies or kittens this is not the body shape of a young or juvenile animal.
> 
> Further it is not the young or a baby of this animal. I'm 5'10" and this cougar is 205 lbs. Do you really thing for a second the animal in that photo is the young of this animal? Come on......... just look at the proportions here! Yearling cougars and even a kitten cougar would dwarf the cat in this picture. Cougars of just a few weeks to a month old are so much heavier and with thicker and more fuzzy furred bodies.
> 
> I live in lion country and have killed quite a number of them. This is no more a cougar then it is a trout.


Is this really you? If it is, this photo has been passed around alot. I got this in an e-mail a couple times, you are famous, haha. That thing is huge! I get e-mails all the time of peoples critters, but usually never anyone I cross paths with, congrats.

As far as the original post goes, this is almost pointless to argue over, unless this critter gets bagged, no one is going to know for sure what it is. I say it looks an awful lot like a big cat, not a house or ferel cat, but a bobcat or larger. But it also looks like that monkey that was brought up earlier. It also looks like a dog with it's head turned a bit. in fact, the pictures of his dog by the feeder strike a resemblence of the picture in question. Maybe the ole pup pup was out for a stroll lookin for his master, who knows. But if it is a kitty, pretty cool. I know there is a family around here that has a blck panther for a pet, nothing says someone didn't have one around there that got out, or nothing says it didn't travel a long ways. I had a buddy that shot a Red Stag/Eoropean Elk here in Iowa that came from a game farm some where in Canada, had an ear tag that they traced back. How did it get hear, it walked. Same thing could have happened, no one knows.


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

kansasboi said:


> looks the same to me too. heres some more info on that pic..http://www.michigancougar.com/black.htm


Did anybody pay attention to the trail cam photo at the top of the page of this link?


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

jrip said:


> Did anybody pay attention to the trail cam photo at the top of the page of this link?


Yep, and there are two problems with it......

1. There is no way to identify anything from that picture. It looks like a dog to me.
2. It is claimed to be a cougar....cougars can not be black.


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## P&y only (Feb 26, 2009)

here's how we solve the mystery. Instead of standing next to your feeder for a picture, take a house cat out there and put some tuna under your feeder. Get his picture and voila! he will either look WAY smaller or very similar in size.
No charge for this idea.


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## HiddingInATree (Nov 22, 2009)

If it had a deer carcass in its mouth we could see the real size :laugh:


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## twisted1600 (Feb 23, 2007)

Appears to be shaped like a black panther....hum.











___________________________________

LH Browning Micro Adrenaline 4 sale:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1074003


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## Keesey (Oct 20, 2009)

SMOKES said:


> some folks call them cats black panthers
> screams like a woman
> spooky


are you serious about the scream? if you are then thats what i hear at my grandparents house a few years back im 97% sure. me and my cousins were playin in the woods at night when i was about 14-15 (i think or around that age) out of no where we heard this scream and it was close and loud and sounded like it was everywhere. it scared the living crap out of me. like now even with a shotgun at night im a little nervous about going into those woods. i can still hear it like it just happened.

oh and my opinion about the pic. its definately bigger than a house cat. maybe like a young mountain lion or somethin. i honestly think its a panther/mountain lion though


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## eddie_tobler (Jun 20, 2008)

Kill said critter with .300 WSM, post pics for us to verify....otherwise it's just a bash fest :-(


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## snapper tapper (Aug 5, 2009)

Jaguarundi... we have them along the gulf coast people claim they are black panthers. They came from Mexico and have been spotted all the way to Florida. My 2 cents


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## asa3dpro (Dec 31, 2002)

Well, the feeder poles may be 6' but after countless times of filling it the poles wont be 6' there will be 4-7" of the pole in the ground.


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

Big Country said:


> Yep, and there are two problems with it......
> 
> 1. There is no way to identify anything from that picture. It looks like a dog to me.
> 2. It is claimed to be a cougar....cougars can not be black.


Yeah my daughter saw an elephant in that pic and my niece swore it was a giraffe. You are seeing what you want to believe. 

First thing if a dog that size had ears that shape it would have to be half cat or just ate a couple and took on some of their DNA. Second look at the tail..... now look at the curl in the tail... the only time I have ever seen a dog that size be able to curl its tail like that its tail was broken.


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## wisbowparker (Mar 7, 2005)

eddie_tobler said:


> Kill said critter with .300 WSM, post pics for us to verify....otherwise it's just a bash fest :-(


X2:darkbeer:


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## Princepookey (Jan 28, 2010)

This looks just like a jaguarundi. It is a species from South America, Central America and now has a home in the U.S. They are usually four feet long and depending on their surroundings can be either black, rustic or gray. They look much like jaguars. I live in Oklahoma near Tuttle. We have many mountain lions, bobcats and supposedly jaguars. A neighbor swears she has a male and a female jaguar living on her property by her creek. I have never seen one but it very well could be. The circus that used to be in Hugo Oklahoma years ago had a few big cats escape and had many sightings of actual jaguars after that for years. I know all over the state of Oklahoma there have been reports. You should google jaguarundi and compare.


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## flatliner (May 2, 2005)

*I'm a dog guy*

thought it was one when I opened it. Pit maybe. Had a couple myself and even though they were 65lbs you could just about get your hands around their waist at the back legs. Take this one, spray it back, then tell him he's a bad dog so he tucks that tail and he'd look just like that trail photo...


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## mathews86 (Mar 31, 2009)

they say the same thing here in mich that they are not in lower in mich but i can give at lest 10 people that has seen one and im one of them i seen mine over by homer mich


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## PY Bucks (Feb 14, 2006)

:smoke::no:

Don't smoke weed!!!


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## bow duke ny (Oct 15, 2006)

Big cats are every where , PA. now has mountain lions. DEC is releasing Rhinos in New York, They eat lady bugs.....Who Knew !!!!!!


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## Obsession11 (Jan 8, 2010)

1st thing i thought was a panther.... but it could also be someone dressed up in a panther suit... kinda like how people dress up like bigfoot :wink::wink:


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## bowhunter130 (Feb 5, 2009)

im one of the few saying this but its a dog. Under fed or very physically fit one. Pit mix. Uncle had a dog exactly like this. when i saw the pic i thought it was his. It had a sleek slender long tail. Trsut me its a Dog


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## a1hoyt.ca (Feb 3, 2008)

*a1hoyt.ca*

I am saying lets go get the dogs & do a little hunting.


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## Techy (Nov 8, 2004)

If those are 6' legs and the animal in question is close to the base of them, then it is not very big. Way so small for a mtn. lion, possibly too small for a bobcat even. It is always hard to tell on pics like this though. It may not be too close the feeder.


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## shwillbur7 (Jan 18, 2010)

TXJIMWA said:


> Did he take the leash off before or after he shot it:mg:
> 
> 
> j/k


that was funny stuff man


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## Biggun 150 (Dec 21, 2005)

I live in NC and there are sightings of big black cats everwhere for as long as I can remember.And sounds like Alabamies see alot of them too.Can one person explain to me why one has never been shot or run over.Everytime I ask somebody that the excuses start flying.Come on people,THEY DON'T EXIST.Show some proof and prove me wrong.


P.S. Some ******** are known to drink alot and smoke the weed.:wink:


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## JohnnyThunder (Dec 3, 2009)

Do you guys ever watch "Monsterquest" ? It comes on Sunday on History Channel or Discovery Channel - something like that.

Anyway, they were looking for big black cats and of course all the experts and biologists say "no such thing", but just the same there are 4-5 times the number of black cat reports as there are reports of mountain lions.

One biologist said there could never be a population of black cats because the chance of there being a mutation that would cause a large cat thats native to North America, like a mountain lion for example would be one in a million.

But if you think about it, if the chances are one in a million then if there are a million mountain lions then doesn't that mean that there must be a black one ? Now I know there likely aren't a million mountain lions, but certainly there could be one even if its just a different kind of large black cat that someone let loose for some reason.

And think about it, a regular mountain lion is pretty well camouflaged so you probably wouldn't see it anyway. But a black cat would stick out like a sore thumb, so its no wonder they get seen more often.

So anyway, as I guess you've figured out I believe that there probably really are large black cats. But having said that, I think that picture is just a regular old house cat / alley cat. My pet cat is mostly black and he's nearly that big, and I've seen plenty of house cats that were bigger than he is.


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## HCH (Sep 20, 2006)

House cat.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

JohnnyThunder said:


> Do you guys ever watch "Monsterquest" ? It comes on Sunday on History Channel or Discovery Channel - something like that.
> 
> Anyway, they were looking for big black cats and of course all the experts and biologists say "no such thing", but just the same there are 4-5 times the number of black cat reports as there are reports of mountain lions.
> 
> ...


There really are large black cats......just not black puma concolors(mountain lions)


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## dxtbuck002 (Jan 4, 2010)

I would have to go with a panther


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## tapate50 (Jul 24, 2009)

jaguarundi.


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## MOUNTIE1 (Oct 6, 2008)

As someone said earlier, the only way we will know for sure is if the cat is killed. I just thought I would throw out one more option. There is a relatively new cat breed in the US which is a cross between an African Serval cat and a domestic cat. They are called Savannah Cats. They can be solid black and be up to about 30 lbs.


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

It could easily be a feral cat. Some years ago while shooting ground hogs a huge black and white cat popped out of hole that I was watching. Even at a couple hundred yards it looked huge. It clearly was not one of my granparents barn cats so a 90grain hollow point from a .270 ended the mystery. That cat was easily 14-15 inched tall and had to weigh 25-30lbs. I am 5'10" and when I held it by its tail with my arm at shoulder level its nose touched the ground. It had a set of fangs on it that were down right scary.


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## bamabowhunter19 (Mar 19, 2008)

This photo is hard to say panther or house cat; however, I'm no biologist. I do know that panthers and mountain lions do exist in Alabama. I have spotted a panther driving to by grandmothers with my uncle and 2 cousins. Another cousin of mine has seen a mountain lion on National Forest land. My mom has seen 3 or 4 growing up, and yes, she says they scream like a woman. Her dogs used to hide under the house and whimper when one would pass through their land. With Alabama tohugh, they don't want the word out because people around here will poach these animals, thus depleting the population.
bbh19


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## tapate50 (Jul 24, 2009)

People, its a jaguarundi. There are a lot of them in coastal places, and their territory is expanding.

Not a feral cat, not a panther. There is a healthy population in N Fla, no surprise its in Alabama. 

Mystery? Solved.


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## savedbygrace (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm not going to say what it could or could not be...but I can only speak for myself and I've lived in Alabama all my life and I've never seen something that I even thought could be a mountain lion, cougar ect... Never heard anything out in the woods that I didn't already know what it was.







There was this one time that I saw what I thought was a UFO, but I can't rule out it being a weather balloon...plus the after effects of Maddog 20/20 along with high end grade peyote may have had something do to with it as well.



j/k


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## Trooper8113 (Jan 22, 2010)

*cat*

this is a panther, there is no question. if you have ever seen one in the wild, you will know exactly what it is. I have seen mountain lions in the wild, they look very similar.


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## affe22 (Sep 29, 2005)

ScottGray said:


>


I can gurantee you that track did not come from the animal in the picture above.


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## wiredup (Mar 4, 2010)

crackedup said:


> I think it's a house cat. This is as close as I could get it in CAD for an approx. measurement. If that's a 6' pole, that cat is about 1'-3" tall to it's back, give or take.
> Edit
> Wikipedia - Cats *average* about 23–25 centimeters (9–10 in) in height and 46 centimeters (18.1 in) in head/body length (males being larger than females), with tails averaging 30 centimeters (11.8 in) in length.
> I had a Siamese cat that was just over 12" tall.


your math is wrong!!! there is no tellin how far behind the feeder the Black Panther is.. take another look... with depth of the picture in mind... BP's are real to many pics of them not be!!!


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## junglerooster1 (Jul 23, 2009)

General-08 said:


> I'm thinking a very large, domestic cat. If those legs a 6' long, that looks to me like about a 12-14" tall animal. Now I could be very wrong also, but it's what it looks like to me.


thats what i was going to say if you divide the legs into 3 equal sections that cat isnt as large as you think. im going with house cat


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## 6ptelkman (Mar 28, 2009)

Looks like bad luck to me!!! Unless you kill it, that is!!!:darkbeer:


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## chasemdown (Jul 20, 2010)

Black panther would be my guess i have seen a mountain lion in the broad daylight so its definetely possible it was just passin by if they dont exist an you see it stick it for sure:wink:


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## Supernaut88 (Mar 1, 2009)

Looks like its a quite a few feet back from the feeder, so it might be slightly bigger than some of the measurements off of the feeder.


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## B-G-K (Sep 19, 2009)

Keesey said:


> are you serious about the scream? if you are then thats what i hear at my grandparents house a few years back im 97% sure. me and my cousins were playin in the woods at night when i was about 14-15 (i think or around that age) out of no where we heard this scream and it was close and loud and sounded like it was everywhere. it scared the living crap out of me. like now even with a shotgun at night im a little nervous about going into those woods. i can still hear it like it just happened.
> 
> oh and my opinion about the pic. its definately bigger than a house cat. maybe like a young mountain lion or somethin. i honestly think its a panther/mountain lion though


You heard an owl.


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## uncleted327 (Feb 29, 2008)

Face it dude its a regular old cat, wild or house...but still just a cat.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2010)

Photoshop.


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## roscoe221 (Aug 7, 2009)

Thats a picture of Obama. Looking to get some of the money you spent on whatever is in your feeder.


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## staggyd (Sep 7, 2009)

Wow...did I miss something or has the OP failed to provide any other photos of deer or anything else next to that feeder.....if you read all these posts it sure makes us hunters sound really uneducated.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

wiredup said:


> your math is wrong!!! there is no tellin how far behind the feeder the Black Panther is.. take another look... with depth of the picture in mind... BP's are real to many pics of them not be!!!


What exactly are you calling a black panther? The cat in this picture "might" be a melanistic bobcat. It absolutely is not a mountain lion/cougar/painter.


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## hawkeyestate (Nov 23, 2009)

A large house cat? Are you serious, there is no way on god's green earth is there a domestic house cat that big. That feeder has to stand at least 6 foot tall. An that cat is way taller than a foot, the grass below the feeder is at least a foot tall. Also, look at the length of the cat, I'd estimate that it'd be easilly 5' all if you stood it up on its hind legs.


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## okiehunt (Sep 30, 2009)

You can call me crazy or what ever you want and I am not sure what is in that picture but I have seen with my own two eyes a black panther or whatever you want to call it (black over 100lb cat) and got a very good look at it. I have also seen several mountain lions as well and it did not look any different just black take it for what you want I know what I saw and just because some have not seen it does not make it not true.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

okiehunt said:


> You can call me crazy or what ever you want and I am not sure what is in that picture but I have seen with my own two eyes a black panther or whatever you want to call it (black over 100lb cat) and got a very good look at it. I have also seen several mountain lions as well and it did not look any different just black take it for what you want I know what I saw and just because some have not seen it does not make it not true.


You saw a black cat that weighed at least 100 lbs? Then you saw a jaguar. Where did you see this thing?

Mountain lions do not come in black.....nobody has ever seen a black cougar. Not ever......


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## okiehunt (Sep 30, 2009)

Saw it in NE Oklahoma thing could have escaped from somewhere I dont know but it was def. black and at least 100lbs looked like a mountain lion but that is just because it was about same size and shape it might have been a little more muscular than any of the mountain lions I have seen. I stared at it for at least 30-40 seconds at a range of about 35yds so what it was was not even a question in my mind a very large black cat of some sort....


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## Gig49 (Apr 25, 2010)

Domestic cat gone feral. We have alot of them in Australia and thats a big one. Kill it before it destroys native spieces. Will come to a fox whistle


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## carybcom (Oct 28, 2009)

Looks photo shopped to me. Once zoomed in there is a grayish boarder surrounding the outline of the "cat". Also, there are obvious signs of editing as reflected by the darker black color around the head, belly, legs and rump. It’s probably a fox or something that was painted black in an imaging editing software package.

View attachment 912393


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## Blillydubvee (Oct 13, 2009)

Are you claiming to have just taken this on your trail cam? ---because I received this same photo in an e-mail last year! really, I did. LOL!


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## marshmonster (Oct 5, 2010)

its a photshopped photo.... why would a meat eater be at a corn feeder? and you can see how the image was transposed on top.

A HOAX!

man im glad im smart!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SplashOfPee (Aug 4, 2009)

Wow that is a nice buck it will score 173'5/8s with minimal deductions!! Great way to start your season off --







I know this thread was about a cat.


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## Otto33 (Aug 2, 2009)

Looks a lot like my Great Dane when he was 9 months old. Skinny and lanky, with a deep chest and little waiste. Not saying that's what it is, but it's easy to see what you want to see.


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## sethjamto (Jun 29, 2008)

I won't comment on whether this pic is real or not, but I do know that black panthers HAVE been sighted in Bama. I am on a 500 acre lease in Conecuh County and my hunting partners have seen one on more than one occasion.....and they have NO reason to lie about it.

I believe its a black panther!


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## kynknwl (Apr 30, 2010)

Looks like a big cat to me. I have a close friend that lives on the LA, MS border and he emailed these pics to me a few weeks ago. These came from HIS camera on his land. So, the chance of it being a jag/cougar/whatever big cat, are really good. They are around...
View attachment 912411
View attachment 912412
View attachment 912413


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## cctech3 (Mar 15, 2009)

staggyd said:


> Wow...did I miss something or has the OP failed to provide any other photos of deer or anything else next to that feeder.....if you read all these posts it sure makes us hunters sound really uneducated.


He has another thread with more picture's. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1061794


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## weave (Oct 17, 2002)

If that is a house cat, something is wrong with the ones I own....they are no where near that size..

I think that was someones pet exotic that was set free...


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## Bigballer (Jul 24, 2007)

That looks like a **** to me!! Just saying. I might be wrong though. And that other picture has been around for a while. Not the first time this year I've seen that one...
BB


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## Rob061657 (Nov 12, 2010)

I know that Black Panthers are in West Tn, because I have a 8mm video of two of them, a 120 yards from my home, we have also eye witnessed these massive animals, which go about 120 to 140 a piece, so whom ever doesn't believe it is needs to walk up on one


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## JonathanGlass (Mar 1, 2009)

are you kidding me?! a house cat? A house cat would be 1/3 the size of that thing!


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

Rob061657 said:


> I know that Black Panthers are in West Tn, because I have a 8mm video of two of them, a 120 yards from my home, we have also eye witnessed these massive animals, which go about 120 to 140 a piece, so whom ever doesn't believe it is needs to walk up on one


You have seen and have footage of an escaped pet. 
You may have seen and have footage of a Jaguar that escaped or was let go. 
You may have seen and have footage of a melanistic bobcat that you "think" looks to weigh 120-140lbs.

What you did NOT see and have footage of is a black mountain lion, cougar, painter........because they do not, nor will they ever exist.

The only cat that has the possibility of being black in the size range you describe is a Jaguar. Roughly 6% of jaguars are black, but no black jaguar has ever been confirmed to be north of the central amazon basin in South America.

If you saw 2 black cats of that size.....look in the local paper to see where they escaped from.....:smile:


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## POTOO (Nov 7, 2010)

It looks like a jaguar. They have them in Belize in fact an American was killed last week when one escaped form the zoo when a tree fell on its cage. Not surer if its related to the panther or not. But, I would be hare put to not arrow it if it were near me in the woods.


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## SARASR (Oct 30, 2009)

I'd say exotic pet that got to large to handle DONT GO OUT TO THAT FEEDER WITHOUT A SHOTGUN!


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## ZGaddy (Oct 22, 2004)

Looks like a pit, boxer or great dane K-9 , that is assuming it's not photoshopped.Look at how the waist swoops up behind the chest cavity...cats dont do that they have more of a straight rectangular body.


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## joker22 (Aug 21, 2009)

carybcom said:


> Looks photo shopped to me. Once zoomed in there is a grayish boarder surrounding the outline of the "cat". Also, there are obvious signs of editing as reflected by the darker black color around the head, belly, legs and rump. It’s probably a fox or something that was painted black in an imaging editing software package.
> 
> View attachment 912393



That zoomed pic looks like a pit bull to me.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

ZGaddy said:


> Looks like a pit, boxer or great dane K-9 , that is assuming it's not photoshopped.Look at how the waist swoops up behind the chest cavity...cats dont do that they have more of a straight rectangular body.


Here is a picture of a hyper melanistic(black) bobcat.......it looks like the opening picture to me.:smile:


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

all predators will be drawn to feeders and licks due to the fact that their prey frequent those areas.

I have pictures of fox, bobcat, yote, wolf, that will mark those locations too.

From the poor quality of the picture and not knowing the distance the animal is from the feeder it is a bit hard to determine the actual size.

One thing for sure with camera optics, 1 foot of distance difference between sujects and the camera can make a big difference in the appeared size.

Like holding that fish towards the camera.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

MNmike said:


> all predators will be drawn to feeders and licks due to the fact that their prey frequent those areas.
> 
> I have pictures of fox, bobcat, yote, wolf, that will mark those locations too.
> 
> ...


Now who would ever do that?:noidea:


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

Big Country said:


> Now who would ever do that?:noidea:


I don't knowww...

Or sitting far behind your deer.....

An illusion, like a padded push-up.


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## redneckone (Nov 2, 2010)

Alright first off i believe it is a house cat, BUT i am from alabama and there has ALWAYS been the legends the old timers tell of black panthers in bama. I live very close to the florida line maybe a mile or so. I have seen with my own eyes one black bear when i was a kid, it was trailing two young does on the hoof. As far a s a panther i have grown up hearing stories about them. The bobcats in bama get about as big as the cat in the pic shown. It could be a small panther, but these cameras really are hard to get great pics out of. As many game cameras are in the woods these days im not surprised big foot hasnt shown up in any of them or something. They really do show you what wonders around in the woods.


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

I don't know one way or another.

The DNR in cases do bend the truth.

There was a wolf found in a trap just outside the T.C. this fall. 

Not supposed to be in the lower 1/2 of the state.

We had a cougar down here too.


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## Big Country (Apr 25, 2003)

redneckone said:


> Alright first off i believe it is a house cat, BUT i am from alabama and there has ALWAYS been the legends the old timers tell of black panthers in bama. I live very close to the florida line maybe a mile or so. I have seen with my own eyes one black bear when i was a kid, it was trailing two young does on the hoof. As far a s a panther i have grown up hearing stories about them. The bobcats in bama get about as big as the cat in the pic shown. It could be a small panther, but these cameras really are hard to get great pics out of. As many game cameras are in the woods these days im not surprised big foot hasnt shown up in any of them or something. They really do show you what wonders around in the woods.


The thing is, that the Florida panther is a sub species of the common mountain lion.(puma concolor) Neither the mountain lion or the Florida panther possess the genes necessary for black fur.

A black panther refers to the jaguar, jagarundi, or bobcat with hyper melanism.......or malcolm X, but not the plain old north American cougar.:smile:


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## joker22 (Aug 21, 2009)

Well, since we are posting cougar pics...


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## MNmike (Dec 27, 2003)

joker22 said:


> well, since we are posting cougar pics...


now we are talkin'


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## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

carybcom said:


> Looks photo shopped to me. Once zoomed in there is a grayish boarder surrounding the outline of the "cat". Also, there are obvious signs of editing as reflected by the darker black color around the head, belly, legs and rump. It’s probably a fox or something that was painted black in an imaging editing software package.
> 
> View attachment 912393



Haha...you guys are killing me. I haven't been on this website in years but I just checked this old thread and find it funny to say the least. I assure you that it was not photoshopped, you're giving my computer skills way too much credit. Read my posts, I have no idea what it was.....after researching where it was positioned, comparing the position with a full sized 97lb black lab I found it hard to believe it was a feral house cat. More than likely, a HUGE melanistic bobcat or jaguarundi (which have been killed in the Bham area in the last couple decades)with the tail down or to the side..hard to tail because of image quality or lack thereof. This photo was taken near an old mining area, my research also found that unusual species of animals not "native" to certain areas turn up around old mines because miners coming back from over sees would bring back pets and let them go once they were unable to manage them. Could this be a cross of some species of larger cat? I don't know. It could be a dang boxer bulldog for all I know. I also came across some info that there is a very large and obviously wealthy landowner nearby that had exotic pets 10-15 years ago...maybe one escaped an crossbred? Just drop the photoshop b.s., that's just naive. It's not photoshopped, just an old trail cam (my first).


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## Mathewsboy00 (Mar 11, 2012)

Not even close to house cat or yalls messurements


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## cypert2 (Aug 9, 2011)

Here Kitty Kitty Kitty. Obviously a house cat


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## CamoCop (May 19, 2009)

house cat. that cat is only about 1' tall


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## hoodedmonk (Feb 7, 2009)

Hey I'm not trying to Hijack this thread, but has anybody seen my Boston terrier Sparky? He was last seen over at the Neighbors house sniffing around his feeder!


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## swish_pst (Aug 29, 2012)

Thats a panther no doubt


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## kravguy (Oct 12, 2006)

Surface back from the dead, just like a Zombie. Maybe it's a Zombie mountain lion. What I love the most about these pictures is they can never be a nice, clear photo. With all the latest advancements in game cameras, and everything else, the pictures of the black mountain lions, PA mountain lions, chubacabras, flying elephants, heffelumps and woozles are always blurry, out of focus, pieces of crap.


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## MXZ (Feb 10, 2004)

Sorry this cat is laying down but give you idea of what a cat looks like this was killed by my brother while hunting whitetails in norther Idaho.. the cat was actually tracking him when he shot it!


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## MXZ (Feb 10, 2004)

View attachment 1621265
Found one standing but no heart beat....tee


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## ccwilder3 (Sep 13, 2003)

Jaguarundis have also been sighted in the U.S. state of Florida since the early 20th century. Here, the species is thought to have been introduced, but it is not known when the introduction occurred. Their presence in Florida is said to have been the work of a writer who at some point imported the animals from their native habitat and released them near his hometown of Chiefland and in other locations across the state. No live or dead specimens have been found, but there have been many sightings considered credible by biologists. The earliest of these occurred in 1907, and was followed by various additional sightings throughout the Florida Peninsula from the 1930s through the 1950s. The first official report was released in 1942. There were significantly fewer reliable sightings after that, and by 1977 W. T. Neill concluded in a report that the population had declined; however, sightings have continued. There have also been sightings of jaguarundis in the coastal area of the U.S. state of Alabama. This may be evidence of the Florida population migrating westward.[9]

A cut and paste. Last year, someone got a picture of a black one in central Florida.


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## wildthings (Jul 5, 2012)

im no expert but that aint no house cat.... no matter the relation to the feeder...no house cat has a structure that muscular..this cat in this pic has a thin waist and defined structure that no house cat could have..hince predatory cats are athletic and built for stalking and chasing.. and not to mention is just simply a bigger build then domestic cats....ill call him a whompus cat but it appears to be the size they describe for them jaguranda things(? spelling)... ground check to find the truth


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## Bgargasz (Apr 20, 2009)

Pit bull?


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## 4IDARCHER (Jul 1, 2006)

Slow Night on AT?


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## Uncle Bucky (Oct 30, 2009)

CamoCop said:


> house cat. that cat is only about 1' tall


How tall is that barrel on the feeder, can't imagine they are much more the 3' tall. I made a scale picture:


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## Bgargasz (Apr 20, 2009)

Uncle Bucky said:


> How tall is that barrel on the feeder, can't imagine they are much more the 3' tall. I made a scale picture:


Scale doesn't help because we don't know the exact distance the "cat" is from the feeder. So it could make it look smaller if its farther away.


Sent via smoke signal


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## Uncle Bucky (Oct 30, 2009)

Bgargasz said:


> Scale doesn't help because we don't know the exact distance the "cat" is from the feeder. So it could make it look smaller if its farther away.
> 
> 
> Sent via smoke signal


It sure appears to be right behind the feeder, maybe a foot at most


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## Uncle Bucky (Oct 30, 2009)

a picture of a deer at the feeder would help


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## floridacrackr (Feb 15, 2013)

OneScrewLoose said:


> You my friend, have a genuine Florida Panther. Indeed they are black and close to the same size as a mountain lion, with same stature, you'll probably never see another one!!!


I get thousands of pics of Florida Panthers a year and I have never seen a black one. Here are a few from my ranch.


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## floridacrackr (Feb 15, 2013)




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## Uncle Bucky (Oct 30, 2009)

floridacrackr said:


> View attachment 1629221
> 
> View attachment 1629222


cool pics, thanks for sharing, where you at in Florida?


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## floridacrackr (Feb 15, 2013)

Down south on the Hendry - Collier County line. I border the Big Cypress Preserve and Seminole Indian Reservation. I'm in one of the main panther habitats in the state. My family has worked with the FWC panther study teams for over 20 yrs and we have never seen a black panther. These cats are spotted like bobcats and have green eyes until they are about a year to year and half old. The tell tale sign between the 2 is of course the ears and the long tail. I dont know what animal is in the original post but it's not a Florida Panther!


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## floridacrackr (Feb 15, 2013)

Another reason why the original picture is not an adolecent panther is for the fact that they dont leave their mother's side until they are almost 1 1/2 yrs old. A cat that age is pushing a standing height of over 2 ft tall. For the first 6 months to a yr they don't wander far from there den and definitely not by themself.


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## cypert2 (Aug 9, 2011)

floridacrackr said:


> Another reason why the original picture is not an adolecent panther is for the fact that they dont leave their mother's side until they are almost 1 1/2 yrs old. A cat that age is pushing a standing height of over 2 ft tall. For the first 6 months to a yr they don't wander far from there den and definitely not by themself.


You are not allowed to use actual facts in a "black panther" thread. Stop it!


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## g_c_c_23 (Jul 19, 2008)

Are you sure it's not Godwin with his shirt off?


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## CAPTJJ (Dec 24, 2007)

wildthings said:


> im no expert but that aint no house cat.... no matter the relation to the feeder...no house cat has a structure that muscular..this cat in this pic has a thin waist and defined structure that no house cat could have..hince predatory cats are athletic and built for stalking and chasing.. and not to mention is just simply a bigger build then domestic cats....ill call him a whompus cat but it appears to be the size they describe for them jaguranda things(? spelling)... ground check to find the truth


I'll repost this pic for you, the thread is long; its not skinny, there is a patch of white fur on the cat's belly. MEOW.


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## crawdad (Jul 21, 2008)

308plainsman said:


> For size reference that is a 30gallon feeder on 6ft tripod legs. I'm going out there in a bit to see if I have a deer pic to post for size comparison.
> 
> Sorry if this has been covered but I couldn't take 9 pages of this: did you have a camera closer to this feeder? If you are going out to see if you have a deer pic, would you not also have a better pic of this cat/panther? Maybe I misunderstood.


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## ridgerunner1 (Dec 13, 2012)

no way thats a house cat sorry guys


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

RugerRedhawk said:


> Why is it that whenever this stuff is captured it's always with a crappy camera? :shade:


^^^^^ this???


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## trs (Sep 24, 2010)

g_c_c_23 said:


> Are you sure it's not Godwin with his shirt off?


It sure looks like him to me. :smile:


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## joshtaylor (Oct 9, 2011)

i thought no way it was a house cat until the guy zoomed the picture and showed the white belly... now im switching towards a house cat, a black and white pitbull also looks convincing from some of the posts


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## yokelokie (Dec 11, 2009)

Here's what I know and would bet my life on... In SE Oklahoma, I once saw a large, black cat stalking a rabbit. It appeared to have a body somewhere between 2 and 3 feet long with a tail of approximately equal length. I saw it from a pickup window from about 30 yards. It was so intent on the rabbit that it did not spook for about 10 seconds or so. It then spooked and ran off up the hill and eventually out of sight. On another occasion, a brown colored cat walked within 20 yards of my treestand as I was approaching it. Its belly swung back and forth just like a nursing housecat. This cat ( I assume to be a nursing mother) was approximately two and one half feet in lenght from nose to base of tail. Its tail was approximately the length of its body and proportionally very thick. It looked 3 or 4 inches in diameter.

I once mentioned these incidents to a game warden. It made him fighting mad and he all but called me a liar to my face. Don't call me a liar and don't call me a poacher.

Some people are cat experts just because they saw a documentary on discovery channel and read an article or two published by the DNR. 

Why does DNR deny reality of resident cats??? They do not want or need to become financially responsible for taking care of them. But if they admit their existence, law requires them to spend a big part of the budget to manage them.


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## cypert2 (Aug 9, 2011)

If you think you saw a black mountain lion in SE Oklahoma (or anywhere else), I wouldn't necessarily say you are a liar. Possible you were just mistaken, or you need a new pair of glasses.


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## yokelokie (Dec 11, 2009)

cypert2 said:


> If you think you saw a black mountain lion in SE Oklahoma (or anywhere else), I wouldn't necessarily say you are a liar. Possible you were just mistaken, or you need a new pair of glasses.


You may be right. Maybe the man with me (my father in law) had the exact same illusion at the exact same time.


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## Where's Bruce? (Jul 11, 2011)

Exotic pet?


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## 308plainsman (Oct 17, 2009)

Uncle Bucky said:


> How tall is that barrel on the feeder, can't imagine they are much more the 3' tall. I made a scale picture:


Check the thread a few pages back...it has been a few yrs since I posted it but I showed an angle from the right side facing the feeder and it shows that the feeder is on a mound and drops off a foot or two so the "thing" would have been several feet on the other side of the feeder. There should be several images in this thread of both me standing out there, a boy, a 97lb lab etc for comparison. If not, I'll post it. To the poster below that thinks he sees white on the belly...that could be, or it could be an upward angle shape typical of the animal's(cat?) stomach. The pic is so bad...you can't tell either way. it was my first digital camera, unfortunately.


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