# Tips on Converting Olympic Recurve setup to Barebow?



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Hey guys,

I'm relatively new to archery and am wondering if I need to do anything special to convert an Olympic Recurve rig to shoot Barebow, and back to OR. I'm thinking that I just have to strip all the OR accessories to shoot BB and put them back on to shoot OR. I've heard that people use entirely separate setups for OR and BB, but I feel comfortable with my bow and want to stick with that one. In order to use one bow to shoot both styles, would I just have to buy a different set of arrows to use for BB? Or do I have to do anything at all?


----------



## trevorpowdrell (May 8, 2012)

You need to replace the stabilizer with a barebow weight otherwise the riser does not balance.


----------



## beerbudget (Feb 5, 2011)

Sharing gets old. Every discipline needs their own toys :wink:


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

You don't HAVE to really do anything besides pull off the sight and stabilizers and clicker. You might WANT to balance the bow with a weight, if the event allows it, but you don't have to. You may also choose to shoot different arrows (barebow typically requires one to two sizes stiffer arrows than Olympic recurve) but you don't HAVE to. 

It really all comes down to your level of proficiency, and how competitive you hope to be.


----------



## acco205 (Jun 13, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> You don't HAVE to really do anything besides pull off the sight and stabilizers and clicker. You might WANT to balance the bow with a weight, if the event allows it, but you don't have to. You may also choose to shoot different arrows *(barebow typically requires one to two sizes stiffer arrows than Olympic recurve)* but you don't HAVE to.
> 
> It really all comes down to your level of proficiency, and how competitive you hope to be.



Today I learned...


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

acco205 said:


> Today I learned...


I'm sure there is a T-Shirt slogan there somewhere, "Barebow archers - two sizes stiffer than Olympic archers"


----------



## erose (Aug 12, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> You don't HAVE to really do anything besides pull off the sight and stabilizers and clicker. You might WANT to balance the bow with a weight, if the event allows it, but you don't have to. You may also choose to shoot different arrows (barebow typically requires one to two sizes stiffer arrows than Olympic recurve) but you don't HAVE to.
> 
> It really all comes down to your level of proficiency, and how competitive you hope to be.


John, why would this be the case? I'm in the process of tuning a barebow rig, but the only info I got is for OR. What is the differences to method?


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

What about shooting barebow makes you need to go 2 spines stiffer?


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

Honest question, if I was considering switching over to barebow, would I be better off just selling my Oly rig and getting say one of the Gillo risers and some ILF limbs?


----------



## Jeb-D. (Sep 21, 2011)

You probably should re-adjust your nock point and/or tiller if you plan to switch to 3 under (and even more-so if you plan to stringwalk).

IMO, Make due with what you have for now. It sounds like you haven't shot barebow before; you may not even like it.


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

Seeing that that riser has the plate for weight designed right into the riser under the grip.


----------



## Darryl Longbow (Apr 11, 2003)

I am curious about the stiffer arrows as well, does string walking change the dynamic spine of the shaft or is it draw length that changes ? When I try to string walk I just cant tell any difference in arrow flight which may just be me or my form in some way.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

trevorpowdrell said:


> You need to replace the stabilizer with a barebow weight otherwise the riser does not balance.


Good idea. I hope that will keep me 'legal' for Barebow.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

limbwalker said:


> You don't HAVE to really do anything besides pull off the sight and stabilizers and clicker. You might WANT to balance the bow with a weight, if the event allows it, but you don't have to. You may also choose to shoot different arrows (barebow typically requires one to two sizes stiffer arrows than Olympic recurve) but you don't HAVE to.
> 
> It really all comes down to your level of proficiency, and how competitive you hope to be.


I would like to be proficient and compete in both. I plan on competing in OR (primary) and BB next year indoor nationals if scheduling allows.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Jeb-D. said:


> You probably should re-adjust your nock point and/or tiller if you plan to switch to 3 under (and even more-so if you plan to stringwalk).
> 
> IMO, Make due with what you have for now. It sounds like you haven't shot barebow before; you may not even like it.


Yeah I plan on having only one bow for a while. Instead of adjusting the nock point, I can nock above when shooting bare and go 3 under - good idea. I shot Barebow before shooting Oly, but the bow I shot BB on wasn't mine. I purchased my own equipment when I switched to Oly.


----------



## _JR_ (Mar 30, 2014)

iArch said:


> I would like to be proficient and compete in both. I plan on competing in OR (primary) and BB next year indoor nationals if scheduling allows.


You can do both - assuming your Indoor Nationals venue has two starting times (i.e. a morning line and an afternoon line), you can just sign up for both and indicate your line preference. 
I shot two disciplines at Indoor Nationals this year - Trad Longbow in the morning and Trad Recurve in the afternoon. You probably won't score as well as if you just picked one, and you might be tired when it's all over (in my case the palm of my bow hand was tenderized because my longbow is hand-shocky), but you'll have twice as much fun! (well, maybe 30% more fun. There is the Law of Diminishing Returns and all)

And as far as Barebow weights being legal - yes, they are legal in WA rules (Ind. Nats.), provided they are only on the riser below the grip (so only attach to the lower part of the riser), and provided the unstrung bow with the weights fits through a 12.2cm ring. That means that some Olympic risers (e.g. Hoyt Aerotec, Helix) can't ever be BB legal under WA rules.

Something like this is probably going to work as a weight on your riser: 
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/x-spot-12oz-stainless-steel-weight-5-16x24.html

BY THE WAY, (for anyone with experience in these things) - 
I've got the above BB weight in my SF Forged + riser for Barebow shooting. Every once in a while it vibrates loose (and makes a funky noise!). What's the best way to tighten it down? Loc-Tite? Teflon tape? Other?


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

_JR_ said:


> You can do both - assuming your Indoor Nationals venue has two starting times (i.e. a morning line and an afternoon line), you can just sign up for both and indicate your line preference.
> I shot two disciplines at Indoor Nationals this year - Trad Longbow in the morning and Trad Recurve in the afternoon. You probably won't score as well as if you just picked one, and you might be tired when it's all over (in my case the palm of my bow hand was tenderized because my longbow is hand-shocky), but you'll have twice as much fun! (well, maybe 30% more fun. There is the Law of Diminishing Returns and all)
> 
> And as far as Barebow weights being legal - yes, they are legal in WA rules (Ind. Nats.), provided they are only on the riser below the grip (so only attach to the lower part of the riser), and provided the unstrung bow with the weights fits through a 12.2cm ring. That means that some Olympic risers (e.g. Hoyt Aerotec, Helix) can't ever be BB legal under WA rules.
> ...


I only shot one discipline at my venue this year but it had two starting times. Next year I want to get the OR rounds first, then BB. Thank you for the weight recommendation! 
How come I won't score as well if I just picked one? Assume tired isn't an issue.


----------



## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

I recommend using a target riser for barebow. Dedicated barebow risers like Spig, Moon, Gillo, etc are rarer than hen's teeth and, unless you have cash to purchase sight-unseen, you would be buying without trying. I am in So Cal (which has alot of archery) and finally just last week got to touch a Spig after almost ten years of looking. The grip was blocky (known issue, they give you plenty to remove), and it did not feel so great that I had to go sell stuff to have one. You can get a target riser to do the same thing except the extreme mass weight. I would call a dedicated barebow riser a "nice to have" but not a "must have".

To get the mass weight and balance, you would add barebow weights, otherwise the riser is very light and will roll backwards after the shot and hit you in the head. You can get them at Lancaster, just search for "X-Spot Weight". A 350g weight in the stab hole is barebow legal and mostly balances the bow. Two 350g weights, one in main stab hole and one in the lower stab hole, will get it near the weight of a dedicated barebow riser if you want that much weight. I actually did manage to get a 650g weight to experiment with and that does get it into the Spig Club 650 range, but it looks dorky big (but still BB legal) and really heavy.

So, to summarize, get a barebow weight and work with that. Put it in place of the stabilizer and remove the sight. WA barebow allows clicker, so you can leave it on, but some remove it. I think it is not allowed in NFAA. One issue with competing barebow is that the national organizations have different definitions for that equipment class (or are missing it entirely), so I find myself shooting in some unrelated class and/or not turning in a scorecard. It does look like USAA is waking up to barebow, though, and WA is definitely where barebow is happening, so I stick with their barebow definition. I also think theirs is the most sensible. For example, NFAA allows a 12" stabilizer, which to me is NOT barebow and I will just not do.

I hope that helps!


----------



## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

TREESTANDSNYPER said:


> What about shooting barebow makes you need to go 2 spines stiffer?


I use stiffer arrows because I leave them longer to reduce my POD. In BB I want my Point on to be (say NFAA Field) 40-45 yards, reducing my crawls or gaps. The longer arrow (I currently use 31.5" arrows) then requires me to use a stiffer spine than one say cut to 30". I use 46#'s OTF's, I am shooting 370 ACE's with 100 gr tips. Much to stiff for my OLY setup but tune perfect in my BB setup.

You can get away with using your Oly Riser for BB, but the BB specific risers can be balanced much better.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

rsarns said:


> I use stiffer arrows because I leave them longer to reduce my POD. In BB I want my Point on to be (say NFAA Field) 40-45 yards, reducing my crawls or gaps. The longer arrow (I currently use 31.5" arrows) then requires me to use a stiffer spine than one say cut to 30". I use 46#'s OTF's, I am shooting 370 ACE's with 100 gr tips. Much to stiff for my OLY setup but tune perfect in my BB setup.
> 
> You can get away with using your Oly Riser for BB, but the BB specific risers can be balanced much better.


I was wondering about this too. Thanks!


----------



## _JR_ (Mar 30, 2014)

j.conner said:


> I recommend using a target riser for barebow. ... WA barebow allows clicker, so you can leave it on, but some remove it. I think it is not allowed in NFAA.


WA does *not* allow the clicker in Barebow. I don't know about NFAA, though. 

From the WA rulebook, in the barebow section :
22.3.4. No draw check device may be used.


----------



## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

_JR_ said:


> WA does *not* allow the clicker in Barebow. I don't know about NFAA, though.
> 
> From the WA rulebook, in the barebow section :
> 22.3.4. No draw check device may be used.


NFAA does not have a BB class for just recurve, it is compounds and does allow a clicker under the arrow, so the OLY style clicker is illegal.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

TREESTANDSNYPER said:


> What about shooting barebow makes you need to go 2 spines stiffer?


The effect of stabilization - specifically, the long rod.


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

Thanks for the info.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

TREESTANDSNYPER said:


> Honest question, if I was considering switching over to barebow, would I be better off just selling my Oly rig and getting say one of the Gillo risers and some ILF limbs?


Just a weight or two will work fine. Where BB specific risers shine is when you want a really high mass.



Darryl Longbow said:


> I am curious about the stiffer arrows as well, does string walking change the dynamic spine of the shaft or is it draw length that changes ? When I try to string walk I just cant tell any difference in arrow flight which may just be me or my form in some way.


Stringwalking causes a change in both nock-travel and initial bend in the arrow, both of which require adjustments to tune correctly.



iArch said:


> Yeah I plan on having only one bow for a while. Instead of adjusting the nock point, I can nock above when shooting bare and go 3 under - good idea. I shot Barebow before shooting Oly, but the bow I shot BB on wasn't mine. I purchased my own equipment when I switched to Oly.


Really bad idea. Especially for barebow you need a nocking point both above and below the arrow.
Having a single riser and trying to make it work for both is not really possible.

-Grant


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

grantmac, thank you for that info, I appreciate it.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Having a single riser and trying to make it work for both is not really possible.


Actually, it is possible. You just need two different strings, and two sets of arrows. Then all you have to do is remove the Olympic stabilizers, and add (or not) some barebow weights.


----------



## Corene1 (Apr 27, 2014)

limbwalker said:


> Actually, it is possible. You just need two different strings, and two sets of arrows. Then all you have to do is remove the Olympic stabilizers, and add (or not) some barebow weights.


 Wouldn't you also need two different plungers for the different arrows and strings?


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Depends on how good you are, and whether you need to aim at the middle or not.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

grantmac said:


> Really bad idea. Especially for barebow you need a nocking point both above and below the arrow.
> Having a single riser and trying to make it work for both is not really possible.


Just curious, why do I need a nocking point above _and _below the arrow? I plan to only shoot Barebow one distance for now - 20 yds.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

iArch said:


> Just curious, why do I need a nocking point above _and _below the arrow? I plan to only shoot Barebow one distance for now - 20 yds.


Short answer: you just do.

Long answer: nock slip is an issue which is present with 3 under and creates inconsistency. If you stringwalk a double nock locator is mandatory. 

-Grant


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

grantmac said:


> Short answer: you just do.
> Long answer: nock slip is an issue which is present with 3 under and creates inconsistency. If you stringwalk a double nock locator is mandatory.


Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Not if you shoot a springy:teeth:


limbwalker said:


> Depends on how good you are, and whether you need to aim at the middle or not.


----------



## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Oh Gary. You and your springy. LOL.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

j.conner said:


> I recommend using a target riser for barebow. Dedicated barebow risers like Spig, Moon, Gillo, etc are rarer than hen's teeth and, unless you have cash to purchase sight-unseen, you would be buying without trying. I am in So Cal (which has alot of archery) and finally just last week got to touch a Spig after almost ten years of looking. The grip was blocky (known issue, they give you plenty to remove), and it did not feel so great that I had to go sell stuff to have one. You can get a target riser to do the same thing except the extreme mass weight. I would call a dedicated barebow riser a "nice to have" but not a "must have".
> 
> To get the mass weight and balance, you would add barebow weights, otherwise the riser is very light and will roll backwards after the shot and hit you in the head. You can get them at Lancaster, just search for "X-Spot Weight". A 350g weight in the stab hole is barebow legal and mostly balances the bow. Two 350g weights, one in main stab hole and one in the lower stab hole, will get it near the weight of a dedicated barebow riser if you want that much weight. I actually did manage to get a 650g weight to experiment with and that does get it into the Spig Club 650 range, but it looks dorky big (but still BB legal) and really heavy.
> 
> ...


I'll turn my current riser into BB setup when I'm ready to upgrade my OR gear - might take a year or so for that to happen though. For now a weight will have to do. I didn't know WA barebow allows a clicker...any type of draw-check doesn't seem very "bare" to me. I'm shocked that NFAA even allows a stabilizer. Those organizations should keep true to Barebow's identify and keep things simple.


----------



## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

iArch said:


> I didn't know WA barebow allows a clicker...


They don't. 

Read the FITA Coach's barebow manual. Page 2 and page 7, which states:
"The most important aspect in bare-
bow shooting is the consistency of the draw length. This is difficult, because there is no draw length indicator such as a clicker..."

Yah, a clicker would almost be cheating.


----------



## j.conner (Nov 12, 2009)

Correct, I get them confused - no clicker for WA barebow. I think NFAA is the one with three different classes you could shoot in with barebow based on SW/FW, etc.- Trad, BB, and RFSL.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> They don't.
> 
> Read the FITA Coach's barebow manual. Page 2 and page 7, which states:
> "The most important aspect in bare-
> ...


Thanks Lynda! I guess I didn't read far enough - was stuck on page 1 reading this:
"Shooting a barebow is a good start for novices in the sport of archery. Shooting a barebow is more and more accepted as a learning process for beginners. After the barebow introduction they make their choice for any discipline they wish to pursue."
Moving on to bigger, better things? :wink:


----------



## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

iArch said:


> Thanks Lynda! I guess I didn't read far enough - was stuck on page 1 reading this:
> "Shooting a barebow is a good start for novices in the sport of archery. Shooting a barebow is more and more accepted as a learning process for beginners. After the barebow introduction they make their choice for any discipline they wish to pursue."
> Moving on to bigger, better things? :wink:


Lol, yeah. That is kind of a contradiction in terms. 

I'll tell you what... when you're hitting the X at 70 with your sight, go ahead and take all those bells and whistles off and see how that works out for ya. :shade:

Wow, I'm starting to sound like those cranky old barebow archers - haha.

Seriously - do well, in all your archery endeavours. 

Time to hit the field, while it's dry, with my barebow!


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> I'll tell you what... when you're hitting the X at 70 with your sight, go ahead and take all those bells and whistles off and see how that works out for ya. :shade:


I'll be sure to document the difference when I do, and then promptly put the training wheels back on. :zip:



Ms.Speedmaster said:


> Wow, I'm starting to sound like those cranky old barebow archers - haha.


Hah...don't need more of those.


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> Lol, yeah. That is kind of a contradiction in terms.
> 
> I'll tell you what... when you're hitting the X at 70 with your sight, go ahead and take all those bells and whistles off and see how that works out for ya. :shade:
> 
> ...


Hey I hit a dead middle X 70m at Buffalo the other day with a Samick Red Stag, no sight, and aluminum arrows with feathers. 

It's the other several arrows I had to collect from the grass that were the problem.


----------



## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

That's awesome! The X, that is. Congrats.

At least you went home with all of your arrows. I just snapped 5 of mine... in a bale that fell over... at Buffalo.


----------



## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> That's awesome! The X, that is. Congrats.
> 
> At least you went home with all of your arrows. I just snapped 5 of mine... in a bale that fell over... at Buffalo.


:mg:

I hope it didn't fall on anyone and turn the target into a de facto iron maiden :mg:


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> That's awesome! The X, that is. Congrats.
> 
> At least you went home with all of your arrows. I just snapped 5 of mine... in a bale that fell over... at Buffalo.


I ruined some feathers on the lesser attempts. But those are my indoor arrows (I needed something to go off a shelf), there's more feathers where they came from, and the arrows lived. I am sorry for your loss.

My buzzkill was a parent of a top notch youth archer saw what I was doing and started to walk out with me to pull and asked if I was crazy or a masochist. I think until then I was having a blissful playday at 50-70 BB after a couple weeks of nose to grindstone training and competing. Eff it if they all (or even most) hit this is fun. After that I got all self conscious and within a few ends was down shooting 20/30 doing the whole attempted accuracy thing.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Azzurri said:


> My buzzkill was a parent of a top notch youth archer saw what I was doing and started to walk out with me to pull and asked if I was crazy or a masochist. I think until then I was having a blissful playday at 50-70 BB after a couple weeks of nose to grindstone training and competing. After that I got all self conscious and within a few ends was down shooting 20/30 doing the whole attempted accuracy thing.


I think you _do_ have to be slightly crazy (just a little) to shoot Barebow at 70. Fun is fun though, you shouldn't let anyone ruin your fun.


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

iArch said:


> I think you _do_ have to be slightly crazy (just a little) to shoot Barebow at 70. Fun is fun though, you shouldn't let anyone ruin your fun.


I enjoy archery and you have to keep a fun element in there sometimes. We would play around and flick and juggle some days in soccer. It can't all be routine. I felt physically and emotionally drained from Az and it was in a way recharging of the batteries.

Has apple sent the cease and desist letter yet? =p I assume they've already preemptively TM'd iEverything.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Azzurri said:


> Has apple sent the cease and desist letter yet? =p I assume they've already preemptively TM'd iEverything.


They're quite preoccupied looking for the iBarebow arrows you grounded at 70 :wink:


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

iArch said:


> They're quite preoccupied looking for the iBarebow arrows you grounded at 70 :wink:


They had to help me because you were other side of the range at the 30 yard youth bales even with the training wheels. Manzanas! Como te gustan!


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

iArch said:


> I think you _do_ have to be slightly crazy (just a little) to shoot Barebow at 70. Fun is fun though, you shouldn't let anyone ruin your fun.


I've never found 70 to be really intimidating.

Shooting the 15m bunny is a lot harder target and a 25m shot on a small 3D much more likely to result in a miss.

-Grant


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Azzurri said:


> After that I got all self conscious and within a few ends was* down shooting 20/30 *doing the whole attempted accuracy thing.





Azzurri said:


> They had to help me because you were other side of the range at the 30 yard youth bales even with the training wheels. Manzanas! Como te gustan!


Hmm....looks like you joined me in youth bale territory after 70. Mi casa es su casa. :welcome:


----------



## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

iCarumba! I should bang your heads together, haha. Pretty witty though. 



Warbow said:


> :mg:
> 
> I hope it didn't fall on anyone and turn the target into a de facto iron maiden :mg:


No archers were harmed in the making of this depressing day. Fortunately!


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

iArch said:


> Hmm....looks like you joined me in youth bale territory after 70. Mi casa es su casa. :welcome:


See I was telling iArch how I try to be a diplomat, and this has turned into the dozens. "Yo mama..."


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> iCarumba! I should bang your heads together, haha. Pretty witty though.


iSorry :grouphug:


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Azzurri said:


> See I was telling iArch how I try to be a diplomat, and this has turned into the dozens. "Yo mama..."


You have a point...I should be more diplomatic. I will _personally_ help you find your arrows at 70 next time, let's leave Apple out of this. :cheers:


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

iArch said:


> You have a point...I should be more diplomatic. I will _personally_ help you find your arrows at 70 next time, let's leave Apple out of this. :cheers:


And I need to help you too which is why I am developing mini jetpacks for your arrows so they get to 70 for the first time. [Begins We choose to go to the Moon Kennedy speech....] [Throws in tongue-stuck-out face =p we're cool]


----------



## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

This has perhaps strayed from topic a tad and I'm sorry. But we have learned an important lesson about how discussing one's barebow efforts can be fraught with peril.


----------



## iArch (Apr 17, 2015)

Azzurri said:


> But we have learned an important lesson about how discussing one's barebow efforts can be fraught with peril.


The only thing I've learned is that Barebow generates turmoil sometimes. I took off the bells and whistles to shoot a few ends recently and almost got eaten by sharks.
At least now I know of some adjustments I can make to convert my setup to BB. Next time I shoot bare, I'll experiment with string walking/whatever I can learn from YouTube.


----------

