# thermacell mats



## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

ok i modified my gas cartridge so it can be refilled. now i am looking for the best solution for the mats. any one have a suggestion for soaking the mats? what have you used with good results? what did you you try that did not work?


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*i have an idea but need a chemist!*

I have searched high and low for d-trans allethrin 25 percent and some mosquito coils have it. same percent and other stuff (inert). Well my thinking is that the trans allethrin is not soluble in water but it is in organic solvents (acetone)
I am toying with trying to dissolve a mosquito coil in acetone and then soak the pad and allow it to dry. (It will very quickly)
This process would not give you the color change indication (working on that, though it may with the color of the green coil)

Here are my only concerns and I am sure some of the "I am the safest guy on the planet" types will chime in.
The acetone will evaporate quickly with no traces of it, so that flammability is not a concern, but..... the stuff in the coil that does burn may dissolve and enter the pad.
I only have one used pad I saved and was waiting until I got at least three to six to try this though. If you are goingto possibly try this to keep in mind acetone is a universal solvent and may dissolve plastic so do the soaking in a glass jar.

Just a thought!


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## jleepeters (Dec 26, 2009)

I found some of the coils also but were way less of the alletherin. What kind did you find that were the same percent? I just left an old pad in mine and broke the coil up into small peices and sat them in the grate on top of the old used up pad. I had to tie a thin peice of cloth around the grate to keep them in but it seemed to work ok even with the small amount of alletherin in the coils i found.


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*hmmm.....*

I will have to go back and see the brand. I also found (which is a surprise) Hot shot wasp and hornet killer has 25% allethrin. Not sure what the other stuff in it is though)
I do know it was not the off brand coils.


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## jleepeters (Dec 26, 2009)

ok thanks, I bought the coleman ones and they were only like .25 percent but like I said it seemed to work so far. I have also cut my pads in half to make them last longer, You get the same effect and 4 hours of use out of half a pad just like you do with a whole one.


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*um...*

it was coleman .25 is 25%! Same as thermacell. I am pretty sure thermacell is not producing the pads, they are made in China. If we could find a supplier and havea bunch of guys go in together to get a bulk purchase I am sure we could save much more than the 1.50 a pad thermacell wants. I like the idea of cutting them in half


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## unloaded (Jan 11, 2010)

.25% and 25% are not the same. The Wasp and Hornet Killer might have 25% in it but I've never seen one without a strong odor. The whole point of a Thermacell is repelling mosquitos and not deer. If you buy a refill set for the OFF product with a fan, the refills have liquid in them that you recharge with. There's not much in them and they cost about the same as the pads, but you might get enough to recharge multiple pads. I've got one of the OFF refills but haven't broke the seal on it, not sure if it has an odor. Here is a possible candidate, it's for a Mosquito Sentry, it uses this liquid to make a mist that repels them, sounds like the same. I might try to round some up. If it as an odor I might just use it around the house and buy the real ones for hunting.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=202205427

EDIT: Found this description: Mosquito Sentry Repellent - Geraniol, Cedar Oil Ready to Use Formula 
too much scent. I'll keep looking, I have another idea.

peace.
unloaded


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## unloaded (Jan 11, 2010)

This factsheet lists it as a "chemical copy" of pyrethrin, a synthetic. I've seen pyrethrin listed on products for keeping flies and such off cattle and horses. I'll be hitting the Rural King or Tractor Supply and reading the labels a bit closer. Here's the pdf for thermacell :
http://mosquitocentral.com/Images/Allethrin Fact Sheet.pdf

peace.
unloaded


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## unloaded (Jan 11, 2010)

Well no luck at the farm store. All of them had additional ingredients, insecticides of one type or another. I'll keep looking.

peace.
unloaded


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*I stand corrected*

Thanks for pointing out that .25 is not the same as 25 percent. I did not look close enough on the package to see that it was .25% and not .25 total. Anyway having searched on line for a few things, there are many suppliers of the mosquito mats but they all have scent added. I shall continue this quest even though it is probably just as well to bite the bullet and by the thermacell brand mats.


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## jleepeters (Dec 26, 2009)

Yea I thought there was a difference in them, I broke the coleman coils into little pieces and put them in the grill of my therma cell with a used up pad still in place and it seemed to work ok. It may not keep them 20 ft away but if it keeps them 5 ft away from me Ill be happy.


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## Maxtor (Jan 7, 2007)

12bhunting said:


> ok i modified my gas cartridge so it can be refilled.


 If you see my post in the other thread about filling these, you'll see that I mention that modifying these isn't necessary


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*more research*

Well Allethrin has proved to be elusive, but Natural Pyrethrin Concentrate, 8 oz ORGANIC INSECTICIDE is not. Ebay 15 bucks for concentrate. From everything I could read about pyrethrin (which is odorless) it is usually combined with Piperonyl Butoxide which is a stabilizer when used in insect mats that are heated. Most mammals are safe around this and do not detect the odor, it is used on livestock quite often. 
This may be worth looking into if you have quite a few left over mats.
Just another thought on this, possibly try around the house and then ease it out into the woods.
I know there must be some farmers on here that have used something similar!


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Has anyone done any testing and if so how did it turn out? 

Sort of off topic. I took about 1/2" of mosquito coil and wrapped it in a muskdine leaf and put it behind my ears. I know it looks weird but it kept all those pesky gnats from buzzing in my ears while I was shooting. Oh yeah don't lite them unless you want some ear warmers.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I bet they are adding scent to the product so that people will feel like they are using something besides water. If it didn't smell some would think that it must be a rip off. Also if it smells maybe some kid might smell it and go the other way. 

Scents are expensive if you are trying to get them to use in soaps and such so the unscented product should be cheaper.


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Time to get this back to the front burner. Has anyone made any progress?


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

alright only have 3 pads left so i am gonna have to start trial and error. anything would be cheaper than buying more pads. i go through 3 pads per day and hunt over 5 months a year. i will post on the progress.


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## scholz (Mar 10, 2007)

this maybe off the subject alittle but can you tell me how you refill the cartridges thanks


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## yanks56150 (Jan 28, 2009)

I found a place to order the pads from in China. You have to order like 20,000 at a crack so I am trying to work out a deal for a smaller amount. Can also order the liquid but again it is in a huge bulk shipment (100 kgs). I will keep everyone posted. I will order for a couple hundred bucks but not spending thousands.


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## crt29jr (Aug 15, 2007)

if your looking for pyretherin look for stuff that kills wasps. Billy the exterminator on a&e uses straight pyretherin for killing wasps and such


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## tpcollins (Aug 3, 2007)

You can get a refill kit with (1) butane and (3) pads for $5-$6, how much money are you going to be able to save making your own?


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

tpcollins said:


> You can get a refill kit with (1) butane and (3) pads for $5-$6, how much money are you going to be able to save making your own?


i am hoping to save a pretty good amount of money if i can pull it off.


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## 12bhunting (Sep 9, 2009)

yanks56150 said:


> I found a place to order the pads from in China. You have to order like 20,000 at a crack so I am trying to work out a deal for a smaller amount. Can also order the liquid but again it is in a huge bulk shipment (100 kgs). I will keep everyone posted. I will order for a couple hundred bucks but not spending thousands.


let me know if you can order on a smaller scale. maybe get a couple guys going in on it?


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## happyfish (Aug 19, 2008)

tpcollins said:


> You can get a refill kit with (1) butane and (3) pads for $5-$6, how much money are you going to be able to save making your own?


Around here the refills are 9.99 + tax. I have been using Coleman Mosquito coils and I fixed a canister so I could refill it using a brass valve I epoxied in the bottom. It works good and the peaces of coils last all day compared to 4 hrs. The coils were 1$ a pack at wally-world and a large can of butane was 3$. The brass valve I already had in an old butane lighter so it cost nothing. 20 coils to a pack and I have only used 2 coils and I have refilled my canister 8 times and still have 1/2 a can of butane left I think thats a bunch of money saved.


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## jleepeters (Dec 26, 2009)

hey happy, are you leaving an old pad in with coils or taking it out and putting the coils directly on the metal? I have used them once but I had to get a thin peice of fabric to tie around the grill to keep them in place


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## matlocc (Sep 29, 2009)

*I am in*

if you need guys to go in on a bulk order I am all for it also...

Chuck


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

It looks like Happyfish may have the best solution. So Mr Happyfish how about giving all the small details about how you are setting up the coils. Do you wrap them? How much of a coil do you put in the thermacell? I need all the details. Oh yeah, do the coils smell when you are using them?


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## SecretAgnt (Aug 4, 2009)

12bhunting said:


> let me know if you can order on a smaller scale. maybe get a couple guys going in on it?


When u get the deal hammered out let me know how many u have to buy and maybe we can get a few guys in on it


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## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Does anyone have any updates on how the experiments are going?


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## killsumptin (Oct 6, 2006)

Here's an idea: I think the active ingredient in the pads occurs naturally in the chrysanthimum flower. How about crushing and pressing a bunch of em?


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## wsbark01 (Feb 26, 2009)

You can call thermacell and order the pads form them by their self's. Not sure how much but it could save some money! just a thought.


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## neo71665 (Jul 26, 2007)

http://www.mosquitorepellent.com/faq.asp#10


Can I buy cartridges (or mats) separately?
You can buy cartridges at www.thermacell.com The same ThermaCELL cartridges that are used in your ThermaCELL Mosquito Repellent are also used in ThermaCELL Hair Care products. You can buy ThermaCELL cartridges in a two-pack or bulk 12 pack on the web site. You can purchase mats separately by calling us toll free at 1-866-753-3837.


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## dinodonofrio (Jun 3, 2008)

check out the off powerpad mats they might be the same


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## Mr. Lolo (Aug 14, 2010)

jleepeters said:


> hey happy, are you leaving an old pad in with coils or taking it out and putting the coils directly on the metal? I have used them once but I had to get a thin piece of fabric to tie around the grill to keep them in place


This is how I've been using mine for a long time now. 








The pad is just to keep the pieces in place. The pad on the image looks new as I just used it for illustration only. You can re-use the thermacel pads for a while (they'll look burned after a while) and then replace with thin cardboard (I use the one that comes with my dress shirts) covered with aluminum foil. My experience with mosquito coils is that they work exactly as the original pads and you all know, or probably have an idea, how bad are the Florida swamps in terms of bugs. I use a small piece of screen mesh attached to each side of the unit with double sided velcro. That way the pieces stay in place when walking and makes it easy to replace the pieces.

In terms of refilling the cartridge, there is no need to drill the top. Just remove the valve and puncture the canister seal with a thick sewing needle. As it was mentioned here before, the only reason to puncture the seal is to make them faster to refill.

Never had any problems, never an explosion, never a leak, never even a near accident. I've saved a lot of money since I started using this alternative. Because coils are so cheap (about $1.80 per 10 coils) and butane is like $3 a can I don't mind running my unit all day long while hunting, camping or just BBQing at home. A coil will last you probably 10 hours if you replace pieces frequently or a lot more depending on how you use it. Just try this alternative. Nothing to loose and a lot to save. If it doesn't work for you, buy the thermacell refills. It is a good product anyways so it is only a win-win.


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## happyfish (Aug 19, 2008)

Like Mr.Lolo I break the coils into small peaces but I lay them directly on the metal plate then I wrap a piece of camo cloth around it to hold them in place. I like the screen idea better thou. I think they last longer than the pads. They do have a order so I don't know how it will work deer hunting. I did use this turkey hunting this past spring and I had 3 deer come in, one of them (a young buck) was around 10ft from me, He didn't seam to mind but the wind was in my face so I don't know if he smelled it or not. I yelped with my diaphragm call so he wouldn't step on me, That was something to see he came unglued, but thats another story. I plan to try it this season so we'll see.


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## Orion_70 (Apr 4, 2005)

Any luck with a bulk order of thermacell pads? You can count me in on the order for sure, bow season starts here shortly and I can't hunt without a thermacell.


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## lc12 (Jul 30, 2009)

I still like the idea of cutting the pads in half if they last just as long as a whole pad!


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## ItchyBro (Oct 5, 2006)

Are they as effective when you're only burning half a pad?


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## acastro (Sep 2, 2010)

Every try a teflon pad works great and some steel screen around the front to hold the pcs in place from the coils works great for us in the swamp


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

This needs more attention. I'm bringing it back from the archives to see if anyone has any new ideas. I am going to try using premethrin, the chemical in Sawywer's tick spray and see if it works. I know that if I spray premethrin on window sills, around doors etc we don't have many bugs in our cabin. 

Also, note you can make your own tick spray (for application on clothing) by buying the premthrin in bulk at Lowes, Home Depot etc in the lawn and garden section. Just mix it 10-1


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## Brad66 (Jun 7, 2008)

So how does a guy refill the butane cartridges? I have butane I use for refilling a micro torch, how do I use that to refill and empty bottle. I need to figure this out soon because 3d is getting pretty nasty with the bugs and the heat!


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## beaverman (Jun 21, 2008)

goathollow said:


> I am going to try using premethrin, the chemical in Sawywer's tick spray and see if it works. I know that if I spray premethrin on window sills, around doors etc we don't have many bugs in our cabin.
> 
> Also, note you can make your own tick spray (for application on clothing) by buying the premthrin in bulk at Lowes, Home Depot etc in the lawn and garden section. Just mix it 10-1


Permethrin is a residual contact pesticide that works by leaving a film on a surface that is toxic to the insects when they come into contact with it. It probably would not work in a thermacell. Also to treat clothes you want about a 0.5% solution of permethrin so make sure you check out the concentration on the label of the stuff at lowes etc. then dilute it properly. Much of the stuff available is not truely a concentrate and often has other insecticides in it. Permethrin concentrate is usually around 36-38% permethrin and contains no additional active ingrediants. To treat clothes with that stuff you need like a 75 to 1 dilution ratio with water.


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## Raymond 1 (Feb 23, 2010)

It would be good if someone could figure out how to refill the mats.
Raymond


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## bowmanmt (Jul 31, 2010)

I use archery nocking plyers to remove the brass fitting, the one with the rubber o ring, make sure you dont mess up the o ring with regular plyers, then once you have pulled that brass fitting out, by pulling and twisting, then I use a sheetrock screw and I then gently screw into the hole, in doing so your really screwing into the metal check valve.(where the brass fitting was) on the butane thermacell canister Once you get a few threads into the check valve, I then put the head of the screw into a vise and then hold on to the canister and give it a hard pull, and it will come out pretty easy. No need for any drilling. Then I mix a little 2 part epoxy and then put a thin coat of glue on the brass fitting, just the part that goes back into the butane canister, making sure i dont get any on the rubber o ring. then I gently tap with a hammer the brass fitting back in its original position. As far as filling I use Vector Butane, it is a little more money but it is refined 5 times. I got mine on Amazon for 10 buck a can. One can will fill many thermacell refills. Even with the notched tip they supply I still had to cut a little v notch in the tip. Once you start filling the butane and you see it starts going slow then release a tiny bit of air with any kind of needle and continue to fill to the point of where a original factory thermacell was filled to. I mark it with a permanant marker, this also lets you know if you have a leak. check it out the next day and it should be at the marker level.


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## goathollow (Jun 18, 2008)

beaverman said:


> Permethrin is a residual contact pesticide that works by leaving a film on a surface that is toxic to the insects when they come into contact with it. It probably would not work in a thermacell. Also to treat clothes you want about a 0.5% solution of permethrin so make sure you check out the concentration on the label of the stuff at lowes etc. then dilute it properly. Much of the stuff available is not truely a concentrate and often has other insecticides in it. Permethrin concentrate is usually around 36-38% permethrin and contains no additional active ingrediants. To treat clothes with that stuff you need like a 75 to 1 dilution ratio with water.


Well then I wont try the Permethrin on the thermacell pads.

If my memory serves me correctly the bottle of premtherin I purchased indicated it was a 25% solution. As I recall the Sawyers can indicated it was 2.5%. That would be a 10-1 ratio. Maybe I need to check to make sure the Sawyers isn't .25%. thanks for the heads up. all I know is ticks don't stay on my clothes when I treat them with permethrin.


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## beaverman (Jun 21, 2008)

The only sawyer stuff I've used (called clothing spray) is also 0.5%, as is duranon, permenone, etc almost all of the permethrin based clothing sprays are 0.5%. I've never seen 2.5% but its possible they make it, but that would be overkill, 0.25% is more likely.


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## mistertuma (Aug 5, 2011)

SO..... did anyone get this to work or not?


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## gasparepi8 (Jan 1, 2008)

if you do get a supply i can sell a bunch let me know


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## mikemow6T9 (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm not much of a DIYer, but how hard would it be to come up with your own Thermacell design that would accept those little coils and the mats? Maybe like a Thermacell on steroids? Make it so it can draw off of more than one butane canister? Just some thoughts, I dunno if they are any good or not lol...


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## Hornsgalore (Jan 27, 2007)

Combine 1 part pure geranium oil with 10 parts of pure soybean oil to create an effective homemade insect repellent that performs as well as many commercial insect repellents containing chemicals such as DEET 
it's all in the flowers guys.

Dilute geranium solution in rubbing alcohol or witch hazel, using the same 10 to 1 ratio, for an insect repellent that feels less greasy. This solution can also be poured into a plastic spray bottle, and used on clothing, pets and plants.


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## Kaos (Jun 28, 2011)

> Combine 1 part pure geranium oil with 10 parts of pure soybean oil to create an effective homemade insect repellent that performs as well as many commercial insect repellents containing chemicals such as DEET
> it's all in the flowers guys.
> 
> Dilute geranium solution in rubbing alcohol or witch hazel, using the same 10 to 1 ratio, for an insect repellent that feels less greasy. This solution can also be poured into a plastic spray bottle, and used on clothing, pets and plants. hornsgalore how does the geranium effect deer in the woods


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## Kaos (Jun 28, 2011)

Well that posting thing didn't work out right

hornsgalore do deer smell geranium in the woods? And do they get spooked by it


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## mi11z (Sep 24, 2007)

I rip the pads in half. I have from day 1 and dont have any problem


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## Hornsgalore (Jan 27, 2007)

Kaos said:


> Well that posting thing didn't work out right
> 
> hornsgalore do deer smell geranium in the woods? And do they get spooked by it


It's a natural flower, what if they do smell it? it doesnt smell like an alarming odor.
Ive been busted with therma cells myself.
My Dad used a wild flower/weed called Sweet Annie as a cover sent.....he smoked and never got busted. Would cut a little bit and cary it in his pockets.

There are alot of natural bug repellents. lemmon Grass, Castor oil. 
Heck Even tomato leaf tea will keep tics and chiggers away..( sprayed on, NOT DRANK )...LOL


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## Kaos (Jun 28, 2011)

Hornsgalore said:


> It's a natural flower, what if they do smell it? it doesnt smell like an alarming odor.
> Ive been busted with therma cells myself.
> My Dad used a wild flower/weed called Sweet Annie as a cover sent.....he smoked and never got busted. Would cut a little bit and cary it in his pockets.
> 
> ...


Thanks horngalore, will be testing that mixture out this year!!!!


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## Hornsgalore (Jan 27, 2007)

this might help also.

Homemade Insect Spray

1 cup vodka
2 T. aloe vera juice
2 tsp. favorite conditioning liquid oil (soybean, olive, castor, etc.)
1 1/2 tsp. essential oil blend (I use this preblended one)

Combine in a spray bottle and shake before each use. These oils have less staying power than chemicals such as DEET so they need to be reapplied when needed.
You can buy a blend or create your own blend from these oils found to have insect repellent properties.

Catnip Oil–mosquitoes 
Cedarwood Oil–lice, moths 
Cinnamon Oil–ants 
Citronella Oil–mosquitoes 
Clove Oil–mosquitoes 
Eucalyptus Oil–mosquitoes 
Geranium Oil–flies, mosquitoes 
Lavender Oil–mosquitoes, ticks, chiggers, fleas, flies 
Lemongrass Oil–mosquitoes, ticks, chiggers, fleas, flies 
Litsea Cubeba–mosquitoes 
Patchouli–gnats 
Peppermint Oil–lice, spiders, ants 
Rosemary Oil–fleas, ticks 
Tea Tree Oil–mosquitoes, lice, ants 
Although found in many lists of repellents, I avoid pennyroyal because of its potential toxicity.
All essential oils are best used in dilution. Don’t apply them directly to the skin in full strength.


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## tim schill (Jul 21, 2009)

let me know if you set up for a big order, I will go in with you guys


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## Superbike1 (Nov 19, 2005)

I know it's been over a month or two since this thread was active but I saw some pads on ebay that are called ARS pads from thailand and they look like they will work and you get 60 pads for 11.99 buy it now. I think I am going to try them. After all the rain that we had the mosquitos will kidnap you and kill you slowly without something. LoL!


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## beaverman (Jun 21, 2008)

I bought ARS12 pads through amazon for like $10 for a box of 60. It took 5 weeks for them to arrive being shipped from thailand. I did try a couple, they worked but didn't seem to work as well as the thermacell pads. They also have a real sweet odor and put out more odor than the thermacell pads. I placed 2 in the unit since they are so small, they lost their blue color in just over an hour but seemed to continue to work for a while after turning white. For the price they aren't bad but they didn't seem to work as well as the originals. The other issue is they have insecticides other than allethrin in them. Not sure about inhalation thresholds on some of that stuff. The allethrin concentration in those pads is much lower than the thermacell pads.


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