# Mathews NO CAM



## Bryden Kinniard

Now that is innovative


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## Hoytalpha35

You beat me. Lol now to go figure out what's going on


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## PayneTrain

Looks pretty sick


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## Hoythunter01

Is there any let off or are you holding all the draw weight ?


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## Tripper

I'm all in...Ordering tomorrow!


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## bcowette

How the duck does a no cam work?


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## deadduck357

Its name is less than desireable but the bow looks very impressive.


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## SkiCop

bcowette said:


> How the duck does a no cam work?


Go to www.mathewsinc.com and watch the video. Amazing.


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## hoyt fo life555

WOW, htr looks ok but man the rest of the no cam line are ugly. Price will scare some also.


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## INGOZI

Now THIS is revolutionary.


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## PayneTrain




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## possum boy

so...it's a "wheel bow"? are we back in the 80's? guess i'll have to see it in person, but i'm not buying in just yet


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## livetobowhunt7

hoyt fo life555 said:


> WOW, htr looks ok but man the rest of the no cam line are ugly. Price will scare some also.


Haha they are all pretty ugly but it's nice to have something a little different finally!


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## PayneTrain

Yea everything but the HTR looks terrible but I want to feel the draw on that


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## TxIceMonkey

How do you get let off on a wheel? Not bashing but seriously wondering. Not completely turned off but this really is the only company that has done something radically different? Not sure if still trying to go forward or decide to backwards?


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## robbyreneeward

TxIceMonkey said:


> How do you get let off on a wheel? Not bashing but seriously wondering. Not completely turned off but this really is the only company that has done something radically different? Not sure if still trying to go forward or decide to backwards?


If you watch the video the center of the axles are not dead center of the wheel so letoff is still there


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## JasonL

Bravo Mathews...very happy to some new innovation. We talked and you listened. I'm looking forward to shooting the new HTR.


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## Goathollerbucks

9" bh... no cam bow. Wow see that's revolutionary hoyt.


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## Critter218

The No Cam just blew my mind!


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## Goathollerbucks

Catch em if you can! Mathews just threw a haymaker!!!


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## Tipsntails7

possum boy said:


> so...it's a "wheel bow"? are we back in the 80's? guess i'll have to see it in person, but i'm not buying in just yet


Kinda what I was thinking. I give them credit from going away from the norm but didn't we go to shaped cams for a reason. It will be smooth, and if it makes 330 ibo that will be amazingly smooth for that speed.


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## griffwar

Wild to say the least I will have to shoot the HTR and the Chill X pro and the Prime Rivel hopefully tomorrow!!


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## TxIceMonkey

Wonder how much of a pain it's going to be putting new threads on?


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## c5mrr270

It just looks like a two cam/monster cam with a round string track. If they go out of time won't you still have vertical nock travel issues.


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## DeanH

my bear jennings has round cams like that and offset center ? its kinda slow too.. 


Seriously, i hope its a bit more then what it looks like.

and hope to test one soon, doubt i will get one but still would love to try it  

looks wise, its .. interesting.


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## bcowette

It says up to 330 and it's offered with 65% let off rock mods so I'm sure it gets 330 at 65%


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## goodoleboy11

The site is down again.. I wonder if there's more?


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## DeanH

im hoping for more info on the chill x pro new grip on that might be the ticket, thats the one thing i was never a fan of on them.


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## JHENS87

DeanH said:


> im hoping for more info on the chill x pro new grip on that might be the ticket, thats the one thing i was never a fan of on them.


It looked like it might of had dual front stabilizer mounts too. I looked at it for a second but it seems to be very expensive, even by mathews standards


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## TheTracker

Bet that thing is SMOOOOOOOOOTH to pull!


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## ex-wolverine

You wonder....??? 

lol


This will be fun or a challenge 



TxIceMonkey said:


> Wonder how much of a pain it's going to be putting new threads on?


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## 0nepin

Can't wait to shoot one .


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## deadduck357

Where is the price-point bow? $1,099 is not really "price-point".


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## nhns4

deadduck357 said:


> Where is the price-point bow? $1,099 is not really "price-point".


Price point bow is the Z something. 850$


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## deadduck357

nhns4 said:


> Price point bow is the Z something. 850$


I missed that one. Site is down again. What did it look like?


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## nhns4

deadduck357 said:


> I missed that one. Site is down again. What did it look like?


Similar to the Other Z style bows. Z2 it may be called.


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## deadduck357

Damit guys all these new bows look baddass. Arenas, Nitrum, Prodigy, and this No Cam. Quit bittchin and send me some money so I can buy them all.


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## 0nepin

I bet the no cam is crazy accurate with perfect nock travel.should tune very easy.


TheTracker said:


> Yea because 330 is soo much slower than 350! Lmfao


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## deadduck357

nhns4 said:


> Similar to the Other Z style bows. Z2 it may be called.


Thanks. Dangit, I didnt get to see it. Site need to get back up. Getting late. Misses thinks Im crazy.


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## TheTracker




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## rageinthesage

deadduck357 said:


> Where is the price-point bow? $1,099 is not really "price-point".



It's the Z2, a re-release of the Mathews Z7. They've done it with some of their past popular bows, Switchback = S2, Drenelin=DR2. Cool to see the old Z7 back in the lineup especially with the new color variations.


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## Capital_Ken

Uglier than a mud fence in a rain storm.


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## Hutch77

Why all the hate? Seriously how can anyone judge a bow they have never held, pointed, Never drew or felt the draw cycle, checked the back wall, felt for vibration, how quiet it might be, the accuracy. etc etc. All The hate and negativity from a photo seems crazy. I'm not loyal to any brand. All the major bow companies have put out some really nice stuff this year and truth is you can't go wrong with any of them. But to judge this book by its cover seems ridiculous, this could be the smoothest drawing, most dead in the hand and accurate bow you have ever shot.


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## TheTracker

Capital_Ken said:


> Uglier than a mud fence in a rain storm.


Actually the carbon element beats it for ugliness! Damn now I want some spaghetti!


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## vnhill1981

bcowette said:


> It says up to 330 and it's offered with 65% let off rock mods so I'm sure it gets 330 at 65%


Your probably right which means 85% (given the past performance of Rick mods) would put it around 305-310 IBO. Now I know speed isn't everything but at 26-26.5" draw I won't lie, it is something I consider.


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## jmack73

Agreed!


0nepin said:


> Can't wait to shoot one .


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## vnhill1981

But I will just add the only disappointment I have right now is they don't have the desert tactical listed as an option. I though that was a really nice color option to have.


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## jmack73

Easy now.


0nepin said:


> Hoyt guys


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## Daniel75

rageinthesage said:


> It's the Z2, a re-release of the Mathews Z7. They've done it with some of their past popular bows, Switchback = S2, Drenelin=DR2. Cool to see the old Z7 back in the lineup especially with the new color variations.


I thought it looked like a Z7....you sure it's not a ZXT?


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## TheTracker

vnhill1981 said:


> But I will just add the only disappointment I have right now is they don't have the desert tactical listed as an option. I though that was a really nice color option to have.


Bro for 85 bucks you can send it to bill at ultimate finishers and have any custom powdercoated color your heart desires!


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## TheTracker

vnhill1981 said:


> Your probably right which means 85% (given the past performance of Rick mods) would put it around 305-310 IBO. Now I know speed isn't everything but at 26-26.5" draw I won't lie, it is something I consider.


You can kill any animal in north America with a 180 fps stickbow, Fred bear did it for years. Try shooting some bows and when you find the one that calls to you then you found your bow! I promised myself a long time ago I would never buy a bow based on looks or speed alone, and I have never been shooting as good as I am now! Slow and steady ALWAYS wins the race!


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## RuntCX2

The Pancake and Waffle bow.. [emoji13] [emoji47] [emoji40] [emoji107]


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## GrisMunkyNinja

Looks like the 'ol wheelie bows of yester year on crack. 310 sounds pretty fast for a wheel bow. Bet it's quiet as frick.


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## speedaddiction

Sad to see the heli go.. The Z2 is slower and heavier than the 2010 z7.. Why?? Z7 was a darn good bow


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## Angel King

Where is the speed generated from?

Serious question.


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## AUSSIEDUDE

By having the axle off center the wheels are cams, can't see the advantage of doing it this way but would be interested in hearing from someone that has shot one. They definitely haven't done it for the speed.


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## vince71969

vnhill1981 said:


> Your probably right which means 85% (given the past performance of Rick mods) would put it around 305-310 IBO. Now I know speed isn't everything but at 26-26.5" draw I won't lie, it is something I consider.


321 @ 85%


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## vnhill1981

vince71969 said:


> 321 @ 85%


Thanks, didn't see that.


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## MiStickSlinger

Anyone else notice the HTR which is labeled as a hunting bow is only offered up to 70lbs while the TRG 7, 8 and 9 are target bows yet they'll offer 80lbs bows in each of those models, am I missing something?


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## Angel King

I'm interested to see how the nocam works out. I'll stick with my dual cams for the speed. We have perfected that system and this is revolutionary. Good job to Mathews for taking a risk and trying something different. People wanted change, here you go.


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## KimberTac1911

Interesting bow. I will shoot 1 to try it. Glad to see yet another line of target bows this year.


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## rocket80

KimberTac1911 said:


> Interesting bow. I will shoot 1 to try it. Glad to see yet another line of target bows this year.


Me too. I'm gonna have to shoot one first


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## Chase This!

Dear Elite,

While you have been busy signing talking heads, Mathews has been in the R&D lab making better bows.


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## Bow Me

So from photos and specs alone we decided it's a revolutionary bow? Amazing!


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## dhom

Chase This! said:


> Dear Elite,
> 
> While you have been busy signing talking heads, Mathews has been in the R&D lab making better bows.


But the Elite guys are jumping up and down because the new Mathews makes their bows look fast! Sounds like tuning should be simple process on these bows.


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## fender68

I'll at least give it a shot. It looks nice but it sure looks like the old '70's wheel bows.


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## tmorelli

c5mrr270 said:


> It just looks like a two cam/monster cam with a round string track. If they go out of time won't you still have vertical nock travel issues.


Looks like a round 2 track binary to me. It even has bumpers pre-installed for cams rubbing on the cables.


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## Norwegian Woods

I think the bow is going to be very smooth to draw and silent at the shot, but the rest of the commercial I am not so sure about.
I will wait and see what some non-biased non-fan boys says about it after doing a proper testing of it, before I make my mind up about those bows.


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## icemanls2

All this is is an enlarged energy wheel. The reason it's faster than wheel bows of old is the limb and riser designs. Wheel bows have been out for years and years. It will be smooth and a little slower than cam bows. Nothing innovative about a wheel bow unless your young and never saw one before I suppose.


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## Lost Man

Mathews blew it out of the sky and I shoot a PSE...well done. They're the only company to actually change it up this year.


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## foreveryung

It's interesting to see the redesigns on most of the bows out there. Sticks and strings, it's tweaking ideas that have been making arrows fly for years. Glad to see them, and others continue to make changes. The engineering and manufacturing processes sure make shooting the new bows more enjoyable. 

But the thread did make me pull my late '70's Darton SL-3000 off the hook and take a look. Longer axle to axle, smaller wheels, steel control cables. I'm going to have to get a new string for it and see what the speed is, just because.


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## WhitBri

So is the chill x pro just target colors then? It won't let me in


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## patiodadio

icemanls2 said:


> All this is is an enlarged energy wheel. The reason it's faster than wheel bows of old is the limb and riser designs. Wheel bows have been out for years and years. It will be smooth and a little slower than cam bows. Nothing innovative about a wheel bow unless your young and never saw one before I suppose.


I had the latest, fastest, coolest bow back in the early 80's... a TTS Qudaflex. It was a "Wheel" bow. Smooth but not so fast. I am very interested in the Mathews wheel bow.


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## Mr. October

fender68 said:


> I'll at least give it a shot. It looks nice but it sure looks like the old '70's wheel bows.


I guess if you are comparing the shape of the cams . . . sure. They were/are both round. That's about where the comparison ends. Then there is the materials, speed, and letoff.


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## Jaliv92

Ok you caught my interest [emoji14]


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## Boubou

Wow this thread reads like a kindergarten discussion. Anyways, would love to try one, seems to be the most innovative bows recently. Even if they went back to the round wheels.
Anyways, you make the average, bows with 2 cams and bows with 2 wheels, you are back to solocam.


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## rocket80

WhitBri said:


> So is the chill x pro just target colors then? It won't let me in


I think it was target colors two front stab holes and a machined grip maybe. I wish I had taken screen shots this morning


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## soloman

vnhill1981 said:


> Thanks, didn't see that.


That does not look like the seem riser that's in the video,.


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## Fury90flier

No cam....ha ha. I guess they're expecting customers to not know what the wheels do.

a no cam bow is called a recurve, longbow


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## Bryan Thacker

I dont think anyone could argue these bows look the same as the Z7 that came out 5 yrs ago...Not bashing at all but just not appealing to me.Was really hoping for something special from Mathews.

Ill still shoot one though...


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## Core Archery

ignorance is bliss. At the end of the day a more accurate user friendly bow is more important than anything. That's exactly what they have done. simpler is always better and this is it. So cry all you want about speed and looks but when your buddys shoot circles around you with one you will see.


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## fender68

Thanks Mr. October. I guess there's a big difference then. I definitely want to give it a try.


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## subwrx300

Well, at least from my side, Mathews website is not working... So it's either A) so impressive that millions of hits per second crashed their server, B) they screwed up the web design and had to take it down temporarily, or C) it's the revolutionary "No-Website" marketing innovation! 

They've TRULY went back to the 80's now! 


To all Mathews lovers, haters and in-between'ers: if you can't see the humor and irony in the above, you may be taking this entirely too seriously.... Bottom line: have fun or you're doing it wrong.


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## mongopino915

May be wrong but looking at the video, the new No Cam is really a binary cam with the cables looped around a rotating bearing inside the limb tips. This is not much different than the binary cam used on the Bowtech Infinity Edge. The only difference is that cables are split yoke and attached to outside of the limbs on the axle pins, which allows for yoke tuning. 

This simple binary cam system is not new and not known for great speed.

Guess the Solocam days are a thing of the past.


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## Alchemist_Ph.D.

It took a second cup of coffee, but now I get it..HTR=Hater. No Cam Hater. Looks like it's super smooth in that draw video. Should be interesting to say the least.


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## BuckeyeRed

Fury90flier said:


> No cam....ha ha. I guess they're expecting customers to not know what the wheels do.
> 
> a no cam bow is called a recurve, longbow


You're a level 2 instructor? Ha


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## Bryan Thacker

Alot of archers on here do not need to shoot a bow to know that the specs arent of their liking...Most people on here have been shooting long enough to know that 65-75% LO just isnt comfortable for them, no matter how smooth the draw cycle is!

Its ok to be a fan of one particular company...no biggy! But do not try to trll other people that one or another manufacturer is simply blowing another away in the innovative department!


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## rocket80

This pic they put on fb a min ago


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## madarchery

So its a concentric string wheel on a cable cam system. Sounds a little different from the old wheely bows that used a offset wheel/cam.

But my question, if you are now requiring the small cams on the cables to create the energy needed; what will that do to cable and serving wear in these areas?


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## Outback Man

Catch us if you CAM...[emoji13][emoji13][emoji13]


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## zenworks911

I don't know, looks kind of interesting to me. Will definitely have to check them out. I don't think they look bad at all.


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## aebennett

My first thoughts were what the hell, and its ugly to boot ha. Then I thought man this is like an advanced Drenalin with probably better tolerances. Now I want to fling a couple arrows out of the HTR immediately.


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## Orion_Jeff

I like the marketing "No Cam", this is still very much a cam...lol 
Just because it is round, does not mean it is not a cam.


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## JasePohl

15-20 year old tech.. great


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## jmt870

How many bows did they release?


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## crazy4bucks

Although the technology is a bit different. It's not doing anything they Havnt done in the past. 2007 Drenalin had a round super smooth cam and 320's IBO with 80 % let off. Here we are 8 years later. Not much has changed.


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## mongopino915

icemanls2 said:


> All this is is an enlarged energy wheel. The reason it's faster than wheel bows of old is the limb and riser designs. Wheel bows have been out for years and years. It will be smooth and a little slower than cam bows. Nothing innovative about a wheel bow unless your young and never saw one before I suppose.


Yep! Simple for sure and has not been made in decade(s). Nothing innovative but simply starting all over again. Hope the radical design/decision works for Mathews.


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## s223196

serious question - who came out with parallel limbs first?


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## Mr.Wiggles

Well,they laid off 35 workers for a reason,I think this new bow line is the reason,lol,it makes me laugh just looking at them,they took a mathews icon and re introduced it,then stretched a z7 out a bit and brought that back.lol best of luck mathews in selling that crap for yet an even higher price.since Matt let is brother run the company,it's going downhill fast.who designed these new bows the 35that got laid off?


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## optimal_max

"Catch us (going back to 80's technology) if you can"

So now we have 2 wheels, and what did we gain? 

More stable hold? Speed? Less torque? 

We already have smooth bows, so what is the payoff?


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## ChappyHOYT

Did anyone mentioned the cage riser and binary grip. They took a page from Elite and made it with a cage and an integrated grip with sideplates. Just like when they put out the chill-x with similar specs to the ELite E35. Not a fanboy, just noticed.


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## bcowette

Core Archery said:


> ignorance is bliss. At the end of the day a more accurate user friendly bow is more important than anything. That's exactly what they have done. simpler is always better and this is it. So cry all you want about speed and looks but when your buddys shoot circles around you with one you will see.


Hold on a minute. Why exactly is this so simple? Just because the cams are round doesn't make it simple.


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## ChappyHOYT

Their Z2 is almost the same price as other companies newer technology. This new "No Cam" system is expensive. Not a working mans bow anymore.


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## deerdarts

Haters gonna hate, there's nothing Mathews could have released that would please some of you. The bash Mathews thing is old and tired. You ask for something different then you b1tch about it. Really?


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## Norwegian Woods

What I can say for sure when it comes to these "No cam" bows is that I think the risers are VERY ugly.
But performance is way more important than looks in my opinion.


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## rageinthesage

jmt870 said:


> How many bows did they release?




Four target bows and two hunting bows.


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## huckfinn38

I dont get this going back in forth with each other. Its a freaking bow. You fan boys and anti mathews guys need to get together drink a beer and sing some kumbaya around a campfire. If you have your head so far up one company's @ss you are missing out what other companies may offer. I am loyal to no company and will shoot any platform that provides what I want.
Looking at this objectively I have some comments.
It looks like Mathews is targeting the Elite base which use to be their base with a bow that is easy to pull, easy to shoot, and easy to tune (in other words not very tunable when need be)
The main concern I have with this bow is what is going to fix lateral nock travel. It does not appear to have yokes that can induce lean and it is not a shoot through system so some prelean will be needed. Basically it is a binary wheel bow or just their monster series with wheels. I have the same concern about their monster series but you do have to worry about cam timing on those.
I was hoping for that 33-35 inch solo cam with a tunable yoke. I have not owned a Mathews since the Z7 Extreme.


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## Kahkon

Orion_Jeff said:


> I like the marketing "No Cam", this is still very much a cam...lol
> Just because it is round, does not mean it is not a cam.


Well actually it is not a Cam...It needs an irregular shape to be a cam. It has two idler wheels on it, but it is not a cam at all...

Definition of CAM. : a rotating or sliding piece (as an eccentric wheel or a cylinder with an irregular shape) in a mechanical linkage used especially in transforming rotary motion into linear motion or vice versa.


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## PSE 2374

huckfinn38 said:


> I dont get this going back in forth with each other. Its a freaking bow. You fan boys and anti mathews guys need to get together drink a beer and sing some kumbaya around a campfire. If you have your head so far up one company's @ss you are missing out what other companies may offer. I am loyal to no company and will shoot any platform that provides what I want.
> Looking at this objectively I have some comments.
> It looks like Mathews is targeting the Elite base which use to be their base with a bow that is easy to pull, easy to shoot, and easy to tune (in other words not very tunable when need be)
> The main concern I have with this bow is what is going to fix lateral nock travel. It does not appear to have yokes that can induce lean and it is not a shoot through system so some prelean will be needed. Basically it is a binary wheel bow or just their monster series with wheels. I have the same concern about their monster series but you do have to worry about cam timing on those.
> I was hoping for that 33-35 inch solo cam with a tunable yoke. I have not owned a Mathews since the Z7 Extreme.


This fellow gets it. Great post.


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## vince71969

mongopino915 said:


> May be wrong but looking at the video, the new No Cam is really a binary cam with the cables looped around a rotating bearing inside the limb tips. This is not much different than the binary cam used on the Bowtech Infinity Edge. The only difference is that cables are split yoke and attached to outside of the limbs on the axle pins, which allows for yoke tuning.
> 
> This simple binary cam system is not new and not known for great speed.
> 
> Guess the Solocam days are a thing of the past.


Correct. You're looking at it wrong.


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## Cbrown06

Since the axle is not at exact center, doesn't this "wheel" have the similar effect of the cam..... The string distance from the axle varies depending on where in the draw cycle it is? Also, seems like cams will still have to be time?


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## General RE LEE

I have a Hoyt Nitrum Turbo on order but this is an interesting design. I'm not going to stoop as low as many on here that act like wetards.


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## Kahkon

I am going to the shop in a bit and will check cam lean with a straight edge at rest...... Looking at it last night, I did not notice any discernable cam lean with the naked eye... 

I slapped a biscuit and a d loop and it was whisper quiet and smooth as butter, while holding rock solid.


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## goodoleboy11

Kahkon said:


> I am going to the shop in a bit and will check cam lean with a straight edge at rest...... Looking at it last night, I did not notice any discernable cam lean with the naked eye...
> 
> I slapped a biscuit and a d loop and it was whisper quiet and smooth as butter, while holding rock solid.


Could you do a possible short review?


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## whack n stack

AR&BOW said:


> 3 of you on here, and you know who you are, need to get a friggin life. Bashing different bows each other shoots and puffing out your chests, how kindergarden style can you get? You should be ashamed of how you acted on here, must be making up for a small p****.
> 
> For those of you that think this is just a wheeled bow. . . . . do you even bother to really look at it before commenting? I like most all bows, but primarily a Hoyt guy because I shoot them best and love the feel. This new Mathews is pretty cool and it is innovative.


No doubt.

This is real innovation.


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## General RE LEE

Kahkon said:


> I am going to the shop in a bit and will check cam lean with a straight edge at rest...... Looking at it last night, I did not notice any discernable cam lean with the naked eye...
> 
> I slapped a biscuit and a d loop and it was whisper quiet and smooth as butter, while holding rock solid.


There ya go...an actual review


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## Cdpkook132

Bwahahaha my elite gto was a "no cam" bow I guess since both its wheels were round


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## primal-bow




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## rutnstrut

I'm not going to read through every reply, as many are fan boy drivel. I am no Mathews fan boy, in fact I have spoke out against them more than supported them. I also have no Favorite bow company, almost everyone makes at least one great bow. However, it amazes me that there are all these "AT pros" that can bash this bow, without having shot it. Wow you guys are good. You should do reviews for major publications and manufacturers, they wouldn't even need to send you the actual product to get your "expert" opinions. Just show team AT backyard pro a picture of the product, and you get "expert" reviews in mere seconds.


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## General RE LEE

kgtech said:


>



Very cool!!


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## MrSinister

That was Mathews best way ever to quit making single cam bows LOL. Make a dual cam system that doesn't look like cams and sneak away from single cam bows quietly while claiming the revolution. Nice.


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## tmorelli

How is not not a round two track binary? The cable routing, termination and behavior all point to it. 

Note that the riser is bolted to the draw board through the berger here:









On the grip here:


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## meekinstokes

deadduck357 said:


> Damit guys all these new bows look baddass. Arenas, Nitrum, Prodigy, and this No Cam. Quit bittchin and send me some money so I can buy them all.


I'm with you


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## Mathias

Watched the video, I think the bow looks awesome. I look forward to trying one out and then formulating an opinion on it.
Over time, it's become apparent to me that hating Mathews and loving elite are pretty much synonymous.


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## ArcherXXX300

***....


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## jdmays

It looks interesting but what's the let off like. I'd like to shoot it but concerned about let off.


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## sagecreek

Would like to shoot one.


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## WhitBri

tmorelli said:


> How is not not a round two track binary? The cable routing, termination and behavior all point to it.
> 
> Note that the riser is bolted to the draw board through the berger here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the grip here:


I agree that's how I see it too. I am a mathews fan and was really looking to replace my apex8 but this doesn't appear to be it. I think riser design is awesome. But a binary cam system doesn't have the tunability I am looking for. At a 32" dl I have always been patient with mathews not giving me something every year and I'm tired of it. May look at the others this year


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## DoWorkSon

jdmays said:


> It looks interesting but what's the let off like. I'd like to shoot it but concerned about let off.


65%, 75%, and 85% letoff options (the latter is illegal in most states I do believe? :noidea


----------



## Jbird22

I have my likes and dislikes about the bow but it's the first new Mathews I've had even the smallest desire to shoot in quite some time. I don't see myself liking it over my Elite but I said the same thing when I first shot an Elite when my SBXT was my bow of choice.


----------



## dragman

Just got my hands on it. I don't say much on here as I am just way to tired of all the fanboy stuff. But here is what I have too say about the bow:
I shot the new Hoyts and really like them (I have one coming), just saw this bow and thought wow what the hell are they doing??? then I listened to the reasoning behind the bow and it made sense to me but I still didn't see how it was going to translate into a good shooting bow. So I got to work and looked it over and it looks cleaner in person than I was expecting fitted it all up and honestly it is one of the most straight forward nicest shooting bows I have ever shot. It seems a lot like they went back to the idea of simple clean and functional. I am gonna shoot both this year Mathews and Hoyt and it looks like it's going to be a hard choice to pick a winner. VERY pleased with the hands on shooting of this bow.


----------



## Whaack

Much of the discussion on this thread is of a kindergarten level. Simply amazing.

And for the record, everyone who is bashing Mathews you do realize that you partake in a sport that is literally thousands of years old right? Complaining about "tech" that is from the 70's while shooting a bow is pretty funny.

HTR looks interesting, it has my attention. The others are fugly.


----------



## meekinstokes

ChappyHOYT said:


> Their Z2 is almost the same price as other companies newer technology. This new "No Cam" system is expensive. Not a working mans bow anymore.


I think cheaper bows would be innovative.


----------



## BowtechGuard

s223196 said:


> serious question - who came out with parallel limbs first?


I may be wrong but I believe Bowtech had the first parallel in the early 2000's... 2003 maybe?


----------



## Mr. October

BowtechGuard said:


> I may be wrong but I believe Bowtech had the first parallel in the early 2000's... 2003 maybe?


Rigid archery . . . in the 1970s.


----------



## whack n stack

Missed a bunch.... Any new stuff in the Monster line??


----------



## walks with a gi

Mr. October said:


> Rigid archery . . . in the 1970s.


 Here's a pic, been done almost 40 years ago!


----------



## tmorelli

WhitBri said:


> I agree that's how I see it too. I am a mathews fan and was really looking to replace my apex8 but this doesn't appear to be it. I think riser design is awesome. But a binary cam system doesn't have the tunability I am looking for. At a 32" dl I have always been patient with mathews not giving me something every year and I'm tired of it. May look at the others this year


I hear you on tunability....but I also realize they might be a great bows as they are. 

I'm not sure about the marketing as "no-cam" and I'm not sure they're going to find the mark with these TRG bows. The 7 maybe, the 8....mmmmm....maybe. The 9... Why? In each case, i would think 5.8# bare bow and $1800 is going to dampen sales enormously. The $1100 HTR at 330 and 6.6" BH doesn't seem like an obvious winner either. And, why do a total redesign and use the limb pockets that are seen as a design weak point again?

I think they'd kill if the Chill X pro had been released at 37-38" with an improved AVS cam. I can't figure out why they don't do this.


----------



## namozine

It amazes me how many AT " bow-pros" know more about bow design than Matt McPherson... LMAO !!!


----------



## parker_l

I think it's great that bow company's are really making an effort to making smooth drawing, fun to shoot bows. While still throwing arrows 330 fps. Seems pretty impressive to me. 
Not a mathews fan but these bows are cool and I can't wait to shoot one at the local shop.


----------



## Mr. October

walks with a gi said:


> Here's a pic, been done almost 40 years ago!


I had the 2 cam variety. I believe it was 36" ATA which was about a foot shorter than anything else on the market. Frankly it really didn't shoot worth a darn but was way ahead of its time otherwise. It was made of all steel.


----------



## Kstigall

What I like most about the bow is that it lists the draw length as starting at 24"!

The rest of the specs are typical "hunting bow" specs. Speed is nothing special. 85% letoff will probably "sell" quite a few bows but it's more of a marketing gimmick than anything. I doubt seriously if you'll see many physically healthy knowledgeable archers shooting this bow on 85%. 

As for the wheel/cam system. Call it what ever you want as all I care about is how it literally performs. The marketing name means nothing as far as how it performs so the "name" means nothing to me. Sorry, I never bought into the "Solo" cam thing as being anything more than a single cam. I'm sure the marketing folks put a lot of time in developing their "campaign". Soooo, I look forward to shooting one of these new Mathews. But I know right now the old vertical Mathews grip is not going to please me. 

Don''t under estimate Mathews marketing abilities! No other manufacturer can match Mathews historical "Solo" cam marketing success!


----------



## bub77

I like the looks of the bow alot. Im very interested in shooting one


----------



## unclejane

Looks like they reinvented the wheel bow....

LS


----------



## 573mms

I don't see whats new and revolutionary, if you haven't seen a bow with 2 wheels on it you haven't been shooting bows long enough.


----------



## South Man

tmorelli said:


> I hear you on tunability....but I also realize they might be a great bows as they are.
> 
> I'm not sure about the marketing as "no-cam" and I'm not sure they're going to find the mark with these TRG bows. The 7 maybe, the 8....mmmmm....maybe. The 9... Why? In each case, i would think 5.8# bare bow and $1800 is going to dampen sales enormously. The $1100 HTR at 330 and 6.6" BH doesn't seem like an obvious winner either. And, why do a total redesign and use the limb pockets that are seen as a design weak point again?
> 
> I think they'd kill if the Chill X pro had been released at 37-38" with an improved AVS cam. I can't figure out why they don't do this.


I agree totally. I for one have owned and shot several Mathews bows over the years and don't care what bow company it is-I refuse to shoot a bow that weights that much when there are much better options out there!


----------



## unclejane

walks with a gi said:


> Here's a pic, been done almost 40 years ago!


Agree... I'm sure it's a fine bow, but I think it's basically a Bear Whitetail with a little shorter ATA and the cables routed a little different.... Cool 

LS


----------



## nismomike

Does anyone know if the 330 ibo is at 65% or 75%? I know with the ChillX we saw about 12-14 fps difference in ibo between 75-85%. I imagine most will shoot this bow at 75% let off. Interested in the speeds at 75%. If they are in the 316-318 ibo range, that's kind of a let down for me. Excited to shoot one still either way.


----------



## helim83

Wow! Thats different for sure, got my mind all screwed up! Can't wait to hold one and shoot it. Damn internet is down at work, I wanna watch the video.


----------



## griffwar

ChappyHOYT said:


> Did anyone mentioned the cage riser and binary grip. They took a page from Elite and made it with a cage and an integrated grip with sideplates. Just like when they put out the chill-x with similar specs to the ELite E35. Not a fanboy, just noticed.


Do you think they waited till Elite come out to see what they had and then jumped in there shop and copied them? Really!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## 13bonatter69

I heard Levi called Uncle Matt this morning and wanted to come back after seeing this GROUNDBREAKING new technology!!! * NOT* 
What the heck Mathews, if you wanted to go back to simple, why not do a recurve????


----------



## goodoleboy11

Is it just me or do the rock mods on this bow almost look like limb stops? I saw a couple pics and the stop looks much larger than the regular cable stop rock mod

Edit, never mind, they just look bigger to me


----------



## griffwar

BowtechGuard said:


> I may be wrong but I believe Bowtech had the first parallel in the early 2000's... 2003 maybe?


Your wrong


----------



## Schneeder

Well now I want to shoot one. Doubt I'd switch now from my 2015 E35 but would be cool to compare. Although they are quite ugly minus the HTR.


----------



## jewalker7842

13bonatter69 said:


> I heard Levi called Uncle Matt this morning and wanted to come back after seeing this GROUNDBREAKING new technology!!! * NOT*
> What the heck Mathews, if you wanted to go back to simple, why not do a recurve????


There is no pleasing you people is there?

You beg for something different, well, here it is and you still aren't satisfied. Good grief y'all need to get a life. If you don't like it don't look at the bow! No one is holding a gun to your head to shoot it lol. There are tons of companies out there making great bows. Mathews just happened to release something that was actually different this year and still gets hated on. It's amazing! There is a reason they called it the HTR (Hater)


----------



## goodoleboy11

It also has a threaded back bar stabilizer mount like the x!


----------



## griffwar

namozine said:


> It amazes me how many AT " bow-pros" know more about bow design than Matt McPherson... LMAO !!!


I know right they should be designing bow's, they sure seem to know everything.


----------



## nimh

Interesting. A pretty exciting year with lots of interesting stuff going on.


----------



## bcowette

nismomike said:


> Does anyone know if the 330 ibo is at 65% or 75%? I know with the ChillX we saw about 12-14 fps difference in ibo between 75-85%. I imagine most will shoot this bow at 75% let off. Interested in the speeds at 75%. If they are in the 316-318 ibo range, that's kind of a let down for me. Excited to shoot one still either way.


65%


----------



## 13bonatter69

jewalker7842 said:


> There is no pleasing you people is there?
> 
> You beg for something different, well, here it is and you still aren't satisfied. Good grief y'all need to get a life. If you don't like it don't look at the bow! No one is holding a gun to your head to shoot it lol. There are tons of companies out there making great bows. Mathews just happened to release something that was actually different this year and still gets hated on. It's amazing! There is a reason they called it the HTR (Hater)


You are right we wanted something different, and we are not happy with this. Kinda like we wanted something different and wouldn't have been happy if the riser was made out of steel and the cams (or in this case wheels) were made out of elbow macaroni. Sorry about all the hating, I would hate any bow company that tried to reintroduce a wheel bow and then think that we are stupid enough to actually believe this is "New Technology"


----------



## bcowette

People want something different but they want performance. Smooth quiet speed.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

Orion_Jeff said:


> I like the marketing "No Cam", this is still very much a cam...lol
> Just because it is round, does not mean it is not a cam.


Yep. The string side can be any shape really. Round or oval makes no difference. It's just a different version of a binary cam. 2008 Elite GTO and SynX both had round cams on them. 

Very nice looking bow though that I would like to shoot. Good job by Mathews.


----------



## 315

Mathews could take a Elite, Bowtech or Hoyt bow and put there name on it and most of you people would still hate on it just because it says Mathews I guess they're still at the top of the food chain


----------



## coilguy

griffwar said:


> I know right they should be designing bow's, they sure seem to know everything.


Yeah but then who would make the burgers for the normal guy if they all went into bow design? They couldn't afford the salary cut probably..............

CG


----------



## ndxt

Am I the only one that picked up on the wheels are centered on the axle, with a constant string radius from the axle. It's still a cam with the "avs" system figured in. I am not aware of anything being done like this before. I like it, can't wait to shoot one.


----------



## bcowette

Obviously their IT Department was all let go in the layoff because their website doesn't work for chit


----------



## shooter44n45

So they went back to the basics and redesigned what started the compound bow evolution. Everyone else is improving cam designs and Mathews went back to the beginning and reinvented the wheel. I don't see a problem with it if it works. I thought we all wanted fast bows, smooth draws, accuracy, and sound suppression. If this bow does all of those things, where's the negative? Sure, a 330 fps bow doesn't set records but it will kill most any game you will use a bow on and 330 is still nothing to sneeze at. There sure are a lot of bow reviews on here from folks who never shot it or held it. I shoot a Mathews but I am not against other brands, I even bought my daughter a Bowtech because that's what she felt shot best for her.
It doesn't matter what companies do, some folks will never be happy.


----------



## Macmathews

Releasing like 3 versions of this thing..
Means they are VERY sure its going to do well..


Kyle


----------



## Mathias

13bonatter69 said:


> I heard Levi called Uncle Matt this morning and wanted to come back after seeing this GROUNDBREAKING new technology!!! * NOT*
> What the heck Mathews, if you wanted to go back to simple, why not do a recurve????


Levi who?


----------



## SonnyThomas

Just observing and noting what others pointed out. Matt may very well may have hit a Grand Slam. Remember when Hoyt came out with the cam & 1/2? Virtually all their bows had the cam & 1/2, that sure of it was Hoyt.....


----------



## frog gigger

Mathias said:


> Levi who?


You know, the guy that was an evil tax collector, out for the $$. Then, after seeing the light, was renamed, Mathew.


----------



## DMAX-HD

haters gonna hate but this is something different. 

Hats off to Mathews for making an attempt to get back into the game - can't wait to shoot one!


----------



## NCTribute

Kahkon said:


> Well actually it is not a Cam...It needs an irregular shape to be a cam. It has two idler wheels on it, but it is not a cam at all...
> 
> Definition of CAM. : a rotating or sliding piece (as an eccentric wheel or a cylinder with an irregular shape) in a mechanical linkage used especially in transforming rotary motion into linear motion or vice versa.


Huh? Does not need to be an irregular shape to be a cam, a symmetrical shape not rotating around its center is a cam. Believe the definition of an eccentric wheel is exactly that. Not sure where you got the definition, but it is poorly written.


----------



## Scott99

573mms said:


> I don't see whats new and revolutionary, if you haven't seen a bow with 2 wheels on it you haven't been shooting bows long enough.


Boy isn't this the truth. I can't believe the number of people on here that have never seen an eccentric wheeled bow. Let alone not understand how they work.

I guess it's new ideas or technology meeting old ideas. Great speed coming out of such a design.


----------



## tz666

Top Gun Bow...."Ill hit the breaks and they (all other bowmakers) will fly right by.


----------



## Tipsntails7

ndxt said:


> Am I the only one that picked up on the wheels are centered on the axle, with a constant string radius from the axle. It's still a cam with the "avs" system figured in. I am not aware of anything being done like this before. I like it, can't wait to shoot one.


It looks to me like they are slightly off center.


----------



## Chopayne

I am so confused. What's the difference between a cam and what they have on the bow? I was thinking a traditional bow.


----------



## bucktrout

I would like to test one. the shorter brace height version doesn't look too bad.


----------



## rattlinman

Mathias said:


> Levi who?


Best post out of 8 pages!! LMAO :thumbs_up


----------



## griffwar

315 said:


> Mathews could take a Elite, Bowtech or Hoyt bow and put there name on it and most of you people would still hate on it just because it says Mathews I guess they're still at the top of the food chain


So flippen true, I'm not a fanboy but some stuff people post makes you wonder why they hate Mathews so much. I shoot prime right now but I will do what I alway's do shoot all the new offering's from all company's and decide from there. Give up the hate people shoot what you want don't sound and act like high schoolers!!


----------



## sagecreek

The "outter cam" (payout) is concentric, thus "no cam". The "inner cam", which controls the draw force curve, is still a cam.

Does this help? :noidea:


----------



## 3dxdjg

Thought Mathews advertised there single cam bows as level nock point travel. Did they reinvent level nock point travel. Should I have to buy new to get it? Does my LX have it? Is it all a bunch of BS?


----------



## kubernetes

I'm definitely interested in shooting one. It's not an eccentric cam, but the offset axle makes it behave like one. Kind of curious what the draw feels like-- is it just constant?


----------



## Nevada Smith

Fury90flier said:


> No cam....ha ha. I guess they're expecting customers to not know what the wheels do.
> 
> a no cam bow is called a recurve, longbow


NO CAM is an anagram for AM CON (as in "Am Conned"). Ha ha, j/k.


----------



## ndxt

Tipsntails7 said:


> It looks to me like they are slightly off center.


Watch the video, it states the radius from the axle to the string never changes through the draw. The cables are cam'd, the string is not. At least that's what I get out of the video and by looking at it, although I couldn't see the cable track on the backside of the binarysolonocam


----------



## Fury90flier

Funny how there were so many haters when hoyt used the word "revolutionize" in their marketing, yet mathews treats its customers as if they're ignorant and very few see it. I'm guessing many don't understand how cables/cams function to compress limbs.


----------



## ChappyHOYT

I think their offerings look great. I can't wait to shoot them, but the price turns me off.


----------



## djm029

Looks interesting but i just dont get the inflated prices of bows these days. Would like to shoot one but prefer yokes. Kudos to matgews for going oit and changing stuff up, im sure the bows will be smoooth to draw


----------



## doulos

huckfinn38 said:


> I dont get this going back in forth with each other. Its a freaking bow. You fan boys and anti mathews guys need to get together drink a beer and sing some kumbaya around a campfire. If you have your head so far up one company's @ss you are missing out what other companies may offer. I am loyal to no company and will shoot any platform that provides what I want.
> Looking at this objectively I have some comments.
> It looks like Mathews is targeting the Elite base which use to be their base with a bow that is easy to pull, easy to shoot, and easy to tune (in other words not very tunable when need be)
> The main concern I have with this bow is what is going to fix lateral nock travel. It does not appear to have yokes that can induce lean and it is not a shoot through system so some prelean will be needed. Basically it is a binary wheel bow or just their monster series with wheels. I have the same concern about their monster series but you do have to worry about cam timing on those.
> I was hoping for that 33-35 inch solo cam with a tunable yoke. I have not owned a Mathews since the Z7 Extreme.


Good post with some good points.
Im all in favor of shoot ability as some say but I want to be able to tune nock travel with out having to re shim, switch limbs etc. After 2 experiences with 2 out of 3 binary cam bows that weren't very fun. I was squeamish to buy anything untuneable again except a Prime. That being said Id still like to shoot one of these "No cams". I applaud Matthews for their efforts on this one. We'll see how it turns out.


----------



## Tipsntails7

ndxt said:


> Watch the video, it states the radius from the axle to the string never changes through the draw. The cables are cam'd, the string is not. At least that's what I get out of the video and by looking at it, although I couldn't see the cable track on the backside of the binarysolonocam


Your right it does say that. Interesting


----------



## crazyhoyt

I like it! I think it's interesting, even though it's not mind blowing it's still kinda cool. I think it's nice that a Bow company isn't necessarily pushing the speed limits an is simply trying to focus on Accuracy, as far as looks go I don't worry about what it looks like if it shoots good. I Would like to shoot one just to see what it's like and how it performs. A lot of people were screaming for a change, well there you go, it's different. I hope they sell tons of them and the people that lost there jobs get them back soon, that would be the best ( innovation ) in all of archery IMO.


----------



## XxOHIOARCHERxX

Capital_Ken said:


> Uglier than a mud fence in a rain storm.


Yeah and that bowl of noodles element is eye appealing, sheesh


----------



## Hoythunter01

I'm going back to bed.


----------



## kubernetes

djm029 said:


> Looks interesting but i just dont get the inflated prices of bows these days.


Inflation. In ten years we'll have $7 gas and $2,000 starter bows.


----------



## 6xsteelers

crazyhoyt said:


> I like it! I think it's interesting, even though it's not mind blowing it's still kinda cool. I think it's nice that a Bow company isn't necessarily pushing the speed limits an is simply trying to focus on Accuracy, as far as looks go I don't worry about what it looks like if it shoots good. I Would like to shoot one just to see what it's like and how it performs. A lot of people were screaming for a change, well there you go, it's different. I hope they sell tons of them and the people that lost there jobs get them back soon, that would be the best ( innovation ) in all of archery IMO.


Good post


----------



## AF_TT

Although it has been done before, sometimes old ideas do well when revisited due to advancements in materials and manufacturing processes. 
I will shoot one and see what it feels like. I will give them kudos for really going out on a limb and trying something that is different than anything else being offered on the market right now.


----------



## Kstigall

How can people be so passionate about something with so little knowledge of the inanimate object?


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Kstigall said:


> How can people be so passionate about something with so little knowledge of the inanimate object?


That is how fanboys and haters work.....


----------



## E. Johnson

I like the looks of it and have to say they have brought something new to the table. I want to shoot one to see what it's all about.


----------



## Bucks

great. Mathews shortened and added waffles to the Bear Whitetail II.


----------



## knight stalker

Whitetail 2


----------



## JHENS87

amazing the amount of hate and bashing for a bow minimal people have even seen in person let alone shot


----------



## Kahkon

trucker3573 said:


> The new no cam is 32 ATA? What a shocker.... Wonder what kind of valley it has.....bet minimal.


Valley is average. You almost have to push the string forward on a slow let up. Feels like an elite in that aspect.


----------



## gfm1960

TheTracker said:


> You can kill any animal in north America with a 180 fps stickbow, Fred bear did it for years. Try shooting some bows and when you find the one that calls to you then you found your bow! I promised myself a long time ago I would never buy a bow based on looks or speed alone, and I have never been shooting as good as I am now! Slow and steady ALWAYS wins the race!


exactly.comfort=consistency=accuracy=shot placement,etc,etc.gotta have personal comfort and confidence in the bow and comfort and confidence about the bow in your hand


----------



## gtsum2

i want to shoot it and see what its about


----------



## Speedfreak413

I personally think the no cam trg 7 is one of the best looking bows I've seen I like the geo gride riser I don't dislike any bow makers there all good mathews has good cs and that's more important to me that looks any day as long as it feels good to me


----------



## Slippyshaft

Looks like a good bow for my mom. Yawn.:sleepy2:


----------



## gfm1960

i want to shoot one too.i'm a hoyt owner,looking to seriously switch to elite because of the draw cycle-valley-back wall on those that i have heard about but i would like to try this no cam also


----------



## ghostgoblin22

i like the new bow, cant wait to try one in person, very interested in it

there always haters but at the same time those haters will be trying to shoot this bow...


----------



## sagecreek

Seriously though, is anyone prepared to pay $1,800 for a bow? lain:


----------



## mikehoyme

sagecreek said:


> Seriously though, is anyone prepared to pay $1,800 for a bow? lain:


Might want to ask OK and Hoyt Target bow shooters...


----------



## bcowette

sagecreek said:


> Seriously though, is anyone prepared to pay $1,800 for a bow? lain:


Where are you seeing 1800? The HTR is 1099


----------



## JHENS87

the new target bows are 1800. looks like alot of detail and machining into them


----------



## goodoleboy11

I'm sitting at my friends shop now. It just showed up, in about to shoot it. Just shot the new prime ion and it was superb, shot the carbon spider turbo zt and it was also superb. Great draw cycle and no vibe. Big difference between last year imo.


----------



## goathollow

trucker3573 said:


> The new no cam is 32 ATA? What a shocker.... Wonder what kind of valley it has.....bet minimal.


If it has a let off is has to have a valley of some sort.


----------



## missourihunter1

goodoleboy11 said:


> I'm sitting at my friends shop now. It just showed up, in about to shoot it. Just shot the new prime ion and it was superb, shot the carbon spider turbo zt and it was also superb. Great draw cycle and no vibe. Big difference between last year imo.


You had vibe in the 14 CS? The one I shot is a dead snake.


----------



## biddz7x

goodoleboy11 said:


> I'm sitting at my friends shop now. It just showed up, in about to shoot it. Just shot the new prime ion and it was superb, shot the carbon spider turbo zt and it was also superb. Great draw cycle and no vibe. Big difference between last year imo.


Let us know how she shoots


----------



## BowtechGuard

nismomike said:


> Does anyone know if the 330 ibo is at 65% or 75%? I know with the ChillX we saw about 12-14 fps difference in ibo between 75-85%. I imagine most will shoot this bow at 75% let off. Interested in the speeds at 75%. If they are in the 316-318 ibo range, that's kind of a let down for me. Excited to shoot one still either way.


One of the pages posted earlier showed 330 was at 65%, and at 85% they claimed 321. Can't remember for sure what the 75% was at.


----------



## Norwegian Woods

325 at 75%


----------



## bucktrout

Looks cool, maybe i'll go shoot one this weekend. 

and hey at least they didn't name it the mathews un cam or MATHEWSUC for short.


----------



## Blue Hunter

Wow...waited to see. Guess its safe to say the old school deflex risers and long ATA's are history.... Hoyt Tribute here I come!


----------



## OHWoodsman

I don't understand why people get butt hurt about them moving away from single cam. It's an old marketing program and product design and they are evolving their design to favor dual cam. How can you still be hung up on a slogan from 8+ years ago. Ford doesn't still make the model T.


----------



## pa.hunter

Bryden Kinniard said:


> Now that is innovative


:noidea:


----------



## dlamb11

Their site is down. What finishes are these in?


----------



## pa.hunter

bucks said:


> great. Mathews shortened and added waffles to the bear whitetail ii.[/quo :darkbeer:


----------



## bcowette

What "problem" did Matthews solve with this bow?


----------



## sudz

I am just happy that my ole 2008 Elite XXL with round cams will now look like part of the "In" Crowd


----------



## zenworks911

I didn't know elite made round cams before. Are they really the same thing? I have never seen an XXL.


----------



## TheTracker

sudz said:


> I am just happy that my ole 2008 Elite XXL with round cams will now look like part of the "In" Crowd
> 
> View attachment 2077414


Your clueless


----------



## rrigby

There has to be a cam of sorts to work. You have to let out string to have let off so it is somewhere. My guess is there is basically a cam inside the axle area which if you look is off center also. I think it is a brilliant outside the box idea but the physics are the same as any other bow


----------



## Norwegian Woods

dlamb11 said:


> Their site is down. What finishes are these in?


The HTR comes in Black Anthem, Tactical, Stone Tactical, Lost Camo and Lost OT Camo.


----------



## bambikiller




----------



## jjwaldman21

bambikiller said:


> View attachment 2077426


Now that is funny! I still think the new Matthews will be an excellent bow. I want to shoot it.


----------



## goodoleboy11

biddz7x said:


> Let us know how she shoots


Alright guys here's the skinny. I spent a lot of time with the htr and a few other new bows. The htr is definitely something that is innovative. It is by far the quietest and vibe free bow I've ever felt. It was unreal actually. It is extremely stable, holds exceptionally well and it feels rock solid, the riser seems extremely rigid and stiff, very impressive. The bow looks and feels much longer than 32 ATA. So much so I grabbed a chill x and prime rival and put it next to the htr to compare. My biggest complaint is the "no cam." I don't know if they are what contribute to making this bow so damn quiet and vibe free or if it's the riser, I wish so badly that Mathews would have made a single cam model on this riser or a dual cam set up. 

Everything is perfect about this bow besides the cam set up. The draw is a bit stiff. That is my only complaint on this bow. It seems to dump into the back wall. Definitely not what I was expecting, everything was so perfect about it that I'm still considering getting one. More than likely I will be buying a chill x. It is much smoother imo and it is damn close to as quiet and vibe free.


----------



## iscariot

sagecreek said:


> The "outter cam" (payout) is concentric, thus "no cam". The "inner cam", which controls the draw force curve, is still a cam.


Exactly.

On a "regular" cam bow, the axle is in the dead center of the cam, so they shape the outer part of the cam (where the string tracks) in an oblong or tear dropped shape to create a draw curve.

On the "no" cam system, the outside of the cam/wheel (where the string tracks) is round, but the axle is not in the dead center of the wheel. The axle is set slightly off center, which is how they create a "wobble" as you draw the "no" cam, which is how they create a draw curve.



So it is a cam.

A regular cam is oval shaped and rotates on a dead center. (Spin a football from its dead center)

The "No" cam is circular shaped, but it does not rotate on a dead center. (Spin a basketball, but off center)


Both will function the same, they just achieve it through inverted means.






Actually, I've always wondered why companies that use the typical tear-drop shaped cams, didn't either:

1) make the rotation point of the cam slightly off center to increase power while maintaining a relatively smooth draw to eliminate the hump and dump.

2) make the cam roll back on the limb in a gear or toothed track system (kind of a horizontal floating or tracking axle) to increase power while maintaining a relatively smooth draw to eliminate the hump and dump.


Or both 1 and 2.


----------



## WSUBowhunter

Those wheels are not concentric. Therefore, they are still "cams" in my opinion. The bow is still utilizing the advantages of a counter-weighted system to propel the string/arrow. I think a "round dual-cam" description would be more accurate than calling it a "no cam"...just my .02


----------



## dlamb11

Norwegian Woods said:


> The HTR comes in Black Anthem, Tactical, Stone Tactical, Lost Camo and Lost OT Camo.


Thank you for the info. Disappointed no desert tactical is offered anymore.


----------



## mattbowen61990

I am a Mathews shooter, but what I see is that the round cams look a lot like the old Drenalin and DXT cams. Many people will argue that those bows are the best ever built, so why not go and improve that same design? I will have to wait to shoot one to see how it is....


----------



## sagecreek

The outter cam is completely concentric. It is just the cocking mechanism. The inner cam has always been the draw force curve and letoff curve. The outer cam shape controls nock travel to some extent.


----------



## missourihunter1

TheTracker said:


> Your clueless


you're


----------



## chris08

cool but still ugly oh yeah i want a waffle maker for a bow or a milk crate lol jmo lmao naw just the truth ish


----------



## b0w_bender

Being that there is still a cam (look closely at the cable take up) I don't see how these wouldn't be susceptible to being out of tune? Out of tune will still give you inconsistent nock travel. In the same token a standard well tuned in sync binary cam would have zero nock travel assuming that you built it with the nock in the exact center of the string. I think the fact that they have shortened the limbs reduced the likelihood of limb inconsistencies which probably contributes more toward the reduced knock travel than does this "No Cam" cam.
Still I have to say it took a bit of thinking outside the box to come up with these. That alone deserves some kudos. Been a long time since I had to actually say "hold on what was that" when looking at new archery stuff. Different and new sure, better?, probably not.


----------



## iscariot

b0w_bender said:


> Being that there is still a cam (look closely at the cable take up) I don't see how these wouldn't be susceptible to being out of tune? Out of tune will still give you inconsistent nock travel. In the same token a standard well tuned in sync binary cam would have zero nock travel assuming that you built it with the nock in the exact center of the string. I think the fact that they have shortened the limbs reduced the likelihood of limb inconsistencies which probably contributes more toward the reduced knock travel than does this "No Cam" cam.


Exactly.


----------



## deadduck357

Well, my local shop told me they just got a No Cam HTR in so I went down there just to look at it to see what all the buzz is about. First I'm not a Mathews fan, never owned one, have shot a few but never owned one. Online the riser looks too straight and kinda goofy, in person not so. Very good looking bow, surprised. It is a RH 70# 28" 85% mods installed. They installed a d-loop and a Hostage and turned it down to 64-65 lbs and told me to go shoot it. I'm 29" DL and my bows are 60# but what the hell might as well. I normally use a handheld but didn't have mine so I just grabbed one of their wrists. WOW is all I can say. No sight, no peep, no stab. I can't vouch for its accuracy, nor did I run it through a chrony but its draw is butter smooth, very stable at draw, grip felt great, never really felt a noticeable hump, small valley but easily held in it, solid backwall, very dead in hand after shot with absolutely no shock, and SUPER silent. I was just amazed at how this bow felt after release. Never felt anything like it. So dead, no vibes, so silent. Impressed.

Anyone wanna knock it, just go shoot it. Don't have to buy one, don't even have to like Mathews, but you will be impressed. Just impressive.


----------



## mathewscountry

I actually just shot it about 30 minutes ago. I think it is the smoothest drawing and deadest feeling bow I have ever shot! I love the 85% mods. I think mathews hit a homerun with this one. I encourage everyone to go shoot it and decide for themselves. I hate how some people get on to talk trash with out even trying the product. Going back to shoot it some more after I get off of work. Can wait to get my hands on one. I have never seen so many followers of other companies take the time out of their schedule to get on this forum just to bash mathews. If its so bad why are you trying so hard to convince everyone you are right?


----------



## BeastofEast

it only took 35 people to lose their jobs so they could build this bow. good job mathews.


----------



## Phil Rathmell

Does anyone know when they will be in the proshops?


----------



## BeastofEast

id say within the next month most places will have them. most shops have the demos now.


----------



## paarchhntr

goodoleboy11 said:


> Alright guys here's the skinny. I spent a lot of time with the htr and a few other new bows. The htr is definitely something that is innovative.* It is by far the quietest and vibe free bow I've ever felt. It was unreal actually*. It is extremely stable, holds exceptionally well and it feels rock solid, the riser seems extremely rigid and stiff, very impressive. The bow looks and feels much longer than 32 ATA. So much so I grabbed a chill x and prime rival and put it next to the htr to compare. My biggest complaint is the "no cam." I don't know if they are what contribute to making this bow so damn quiet and vibe free or if it's the riser, I wish so badly that Mathews would have made a single cam model on this riser or a dual cam set up.
> 
> Everything is perfect about this bow besides the cam set up. The draw is a bit stiff. That is my only complaint on this bow. It seems to dump into the back wall. Definitely not what I was expecting, everything was so perfect about it that I'm still considering getting one. More than likely I will be buying a chill x. *It is much smoother imo and it is damn close to as quiet and vibe free*.


This is why you have to take reviews on AT with a grain of salt? Doesn't the second bold sentence contradict what you said in the first?


----------



## goodoleboy11

paarchhntr said:


> This is why you have to take reviews on AT with a grain of salt? Doesn't the second bold sentence contradict what you said in the first?


No it doesn't whatsoever lol read it again. I don't know what you think is contradicting


----------



## TheTracker

paarchhntr said:


> This is why you have to take reviews on AT with a grain of salt? Doesn't the second bold sentence contradict what you said in the first?


Nowhere in his statement did he ever say the bow was vibe free or 100% quiet, He said it was the quietest and vibe free BOW HE HAS EVER FELT! Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, Maybe you should become a CNN news anchor!


----------



## goodoleboy11

TheTracker said:


> Nowhere in his statement did he ever say the bow was vibe free or 100% quiet, He said it was the quietest and vibe free BOW HE HAS EVER FELT! Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, Maybe you should become a CNN news anchor!


You can't fix stupid man.


----------



## worldhunter

Just shot it - super quiet!


----------



## General RE LEE

worldhunter said:


> Just shot it - super quiet!


I'm wondering with those cams what is the valley like?


----------



## bcowette

goodoleboy11 said:


> Alright guys here's the skinny. I spent a lot of time with the htr and a few other new bows. The htr is definitely something that is innovative. It is by far the quietest and vibe free bow I've ever felt. It was unreal actually. It is extremely stable, holds exceptionally well and it feels rock solid, the riser seems extremely rigid and stiff, very impressive. The bow looks and feels much longer than 32 ATA. So much so I grabbed a chill x and prime rival and put it next to the htr to compare. My biggest complaint is the "no cam." I don't know if they are what contribute to making this bow so damn quiet and vibe free or if it's the riser, I wish so badly that Mathews would have made a single cam model on this riser or a dual cam set up.
> 
> Everything is perfect about this bow besides the cam set up. The draw is a bit stiff. That is my only complaint on this bow. It seems to dump into the back wall. Definitely not what I was expecting, everything was so perfect about it that I'm still considering getting one. More than likely I will be buying a chill x. It is much smoother imo and it is damn close to as quiet and vibe free.



Which mods did you have on the bow? I'm willing to bet since the "inner cam" controls the draw force curve that the mods would have an impact on the dump into the valley. It would make sense that the 75% mods would have less dump than the 85%/


----------



## bcowette

TheTracker said:


> Nowhere in his statement did he ever say the bow was vibe free or 100% quiet, He said it was the quietest and vibe free BOW HE HAS EVER FELT! Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, Maybe you should become a CNN news anchor!


Actually he does say BY FAR and then goes on to say the Chill X is really close. Maybe you're the one who cant comprehend what they read?


----------



## Fury90flier

TheTracker said:


> Your clueless


Umm...


missourihunter1 said:


> you're


Yea.



rrigby said:


> There has to be a cam of sorts to work. You have to let out string to have let off so it is somewhere. My guess is there is basically a cam inside the axle area which if you look is off center also. I think it is a brilliant outside the box idea but the physics are the same as any other bow


how is it outside the box thinking using similar mechanics from 30 years ago?



If what they've done is make a wheel simply have a solid wall and short vally- then release shooters will finally know what finger shooters have known all along. A good wheel bow is a pleasure to shoot


----------



## goodoleboy11

bcowette said:


> Which mods did you have on the bow? I'm willing to bet since the "inner cam" controls the draw force curve that the mods would have an impact on the dump into the valley. It would make sense that the 75% mods would have less dump than the 85%/


It was 85 percent. The mods are weird looking, they have a very shallow slope to them and that's it. The stop is much larger than the regular rock mods. I'm torn between this new no cam, a chill x or a 2015 e35. One of those will be my next bow.

It was weird, I shot it at 70 pounds first and the draw very nice, then we cranked it down to 62 and it felt stiffer somehow..? I don't know. This bow has me completely blown away at how dang quiet and vibe free it was. I mean absolutely dead. The only thing I could possibly complain about was the draw.


----------



## bcowette

goodoleboy11 said:


> It was 85 percent. The mods are weird looking, they have a very shallow slope to them and that's it. The stop is much larger than the regular rock mods. I'm torn between this new no cam, a chill x or a 2015 e35. One of those will be my next bow.
> 
> It was weird, I shot it at 70 pounds first and the draw very nice, then we cranked it down to 62 and it felt stiffer somehow..? I don't know. This bow has me completely blown away at how dang quiet and vibe free it was. I mean absolutely dead. The only thing I could possibly complain about was the draw.


Try shooting it with 75% mods and see if the draw changes.


----------



## mzy05858

General RE LEE said:


> I'm wondering with those cams what is the valley like?


I'm wondering this too


----------



## sagecreek

The round wheel bows of the past was smooth because of the round inner cam they had also. Gradual build of the draw force and gradual letoff into the valley. The outter cam really doesn't do much.


----------



## goodoleboy11

bcowette said:


> Try shooting it with 75% mods and see if the draw changes.


It will, I will give it a shot. It's definitely an efficient bow. I was messing around with the prime rival when my buddy was chrono-ing the no cam, he was telling me the speeds were on par with the chill x which I couldn't believe.


----------



## Hozzie

I went and shot the HTR today and probably have a bit different perspective than many on here as I am just getting back into bow shooting after a 15 year hiatus. Last week I shot the Hoyt Nitrum 30 and at first thought it was pretty nice. My first impression was that the initial draw was pretty hard, but once you got it back so far, it let off very quickly. I was a bit indifferent to it, not bad, not great, but seemed ok. I shot about 10 shots and was fairly impressed with it's overall feel and quietness.

Today, I shot the HTR and let me say from my laymen perspective, it was a much more comfortable draw for me. Both it and the Nitrum were set at 70lbs, but the HTR felt like it was 60lbs compared to the Hoyt. I think it was because the Hoyt had such a stiff first part of the draw. The HTR was for me a simple, smooth pull almost all the way back. Letoff was at 85% and it was great. If I get an HTR I will probably go with 75%, but I think the draw will still be good.

I also shot a Mission Ballistic and for the price I was pretty impressed. I am actually kind of torn on what I am going to get. My shop didn't have a Z2 yet to try, but it will certainly come down to one of these three bows. It will be hard to outdue the feel and quietness of the HTR for me, but I just have to decide if the extra money is worth it. I recommend everyone go shoot one before you decide if it is crap or not. As I have literally zero allegiance or background with any bowmaker for the last 15 years, I certainly think it is the best feeling bow I have shot. If it matters I am a 29" draw and I think the 32" ATA does make it a little nicer fit for me overall.


----------



## Chopayne

I don't know why you bow hunters are so picky. What's it matter if it's a harsh draw what not? You feel it for a split second and then you're drawn back. Then you just hold, but I guess if it's worth it to shell out the money each year then more power to ya.


----------



## bcowette

Chopayne said:


> I don't know why you bow hunters are so picky. What's it matter if it's a harsh draw what not? You feel it for a split second and then you're drawn back. Then you just hold, but I guess if it's worth it to shell out the money each year then more power to ya.


Dumps in the valley lead to excess movement and noise and even your arrow doing things you don't want on the rest if you don't shoot something like a QAD. That's the last thing you want if you're drawing back on a booner that's 10 yards away.


----------



## TheTracker

Chopayne said:


> I don't know why you bow hunters are so picky. What's it matter if it's a harsh draw what not? You feel it for a split second and then you're drawn back. Then you just hold, but I guess if it's worth it to shell out the money each year then more power to ya.


Drawing a bow back in 70 degree weather in a t shirt and shorts, Is a whole lot different than drawing one with 3 layers of clothing in 10 degree weather with 70% of your blood in your core and your extremities are ice cold.


----------



## paarchhntr

TheTracker said:


> Nowhere in his statement did he ever say the bow was vibe free or 100% quiet, He said it was the quietest and vibe free BOW HE HAS EVER FELT! Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, Maybe you should become a CNN news anchor!


Maybe an elementary education would do you some good. 
He stated it was "BY FAR the quietest and vibe free bow he has ever felt, unreal actually"
He then writes the chill x was "damn close"
"By far" and "damn close" in my book are two different things.


----------



## bb&d

Still amuses me that Mathews has had this riser for 5 years and people are still making waffle jokes... some things never change.


----------



## TheTracker

bcowette said:


> Actually he does say BY FAR and then goes on to say the Chill X is really close. Maybe you're the one who cant comprehend what they read?


You just validated my point even more, By far and vibe free are not the same. If i say a bow is 98% vibe free is that the same as being vibe free? Sorry try harder next time champ.


----------



## TheTracker

goodoleboy11 said:


> You can't fix stupid man.


I know brother.


----------



## goodoleboy11

paarchhntr said:


> Maybe an elementary education would do you some good.
> He stated it was "BY FAR the quietest and vibe free bow he has ever felt, unreal actually"
> He then writes the chill x was "damn close"
> "By far" and "damn close" in my book are two different things.


What do you not understand...? The htr was the quietest and most vibe free bow I've ever felt. The chill x is smoother to me, and it is almost as quiet and vibe free as the htr. It's not difficult, nor contradicting


----------



## bcowette

TheTracker said:


> You just validated my point even more, By far and vibe free are not the same. If i say a bow is 98% vibe free is that the same as being vibe free? Sorry try harder next time champ.


LOL. He says it's BY FAR the most quite and vibe free bow. If it were truly BY FAR there wouldn't be another bow that was close. He then goes on to say the Chill X is so damn close.

That's a contradiction.


----------



## bcowette

goodoleboy11 said:


> What do you not understand...? The htr was the quietest and most vibe free bow I've ever felt. The chill x is smoother to me, and it is almost as quiet and vibe free as the htr. It's not difficult, nor contradicting


You used the words BY FAR. That was obviously and exaggeration since you then go on to say the Chill X is really close. Either that or your exaggerating how close the Chill X is.


----------



## goodoleboy11

bcowette said:


> You used the words BY FAR. That was obviously and exaggeration since you then go on to say the Chill X is really close. Either that or your exaggerating how close the Chill X is.


I think you are diving too far into what I say. Yes the no cam takes the cake in being dead. The chill x is not far behind it. I said by far because I am comparing it to other bows on the market that I have shot.


----------



## mzy05858

Chopayne said:


> I don't know why you bow hunters are so picky. What's it matter if it's a harsh draw what not? You feel it for a split second and then you're drawn back. Then you just hold, but I guess if it's worth it to shell out the money each year then more power to ya.


Some of us like to do a lot of backyard shooting in the off season and prefer smooth drawing bow for that reason. I've had harsh drawing bows and to me it takes the fun out of it.


----------



## deadduck357

Are y'all being for real??? This thread is like reading texts from my girlfriend.


----------



## BuckeyeRed

I didn't care for the valley @ 85%. Too long for my tastes, the 75%/65% would probably be closer to what I am accustomed to.

Bow is exceptionally vibe and shock free. I shot it along the Prodigy and the Synergy. Bare bow it better than both the other two in that regard. I like the Prodigy over the HTR and the HTR over the Synergy.


----------



## Boubou

Chopayne said:


> I don't know why you bow hunters are so picky. What's it matter if it's a harsh draw what not? You feel it for a split second and then you're drawn back. Then you just hold, but I guess if it's worth it to shell out the money each year then more power to ya.


Yeah, I don't know about "bow hunters", but for archers who shoot a lot of arrows, draw is important, well at least for me anyways


----------



## Chopayne

Hmm. I have a pse DNA, I feel like it draws smooth. Maybe that's why I'm not buying new bows?


----------



## norsemen

There are a lot of bows out there that are fairly vibe and shock free. In my opinion, Mathews made a huge mistake. A sub 7" BH bow, that I very much doubt comes in at 330 IBO (according to all the posted numbers so far). I'm not even interested in shooting the darn thing. At least last year, I was excited to shoot the Chill R and the Chill X. I'm sure the "die hards" will be eating this thing up though. And for $1100.00???????


----------



## norsemen

Chopayne said:


> Hmm. I have a pse DNA, I feel like it draws smooth. Maybe that's why I'm not buying new bows?


Yes, and vibe free


----------



## stillrunnin

If I wanted a bow that slow I would pull out my round wheeled bows from early 90s bow


----------



## possum

Just when you think the cam system will be all McPhearson based they change everything. You have to respect Mathews for advanced technology. I think the HTR will be a nice hunting bow. Wish it was 35 ATA.


----------



## Chopayne

Is it really that "groundbreaking" I mean sure they may have used an innovative new technology but is it going to really catapult archery leaps and bounds? Doubtful. I consider it just another fuel alternative to gasoline. Different thing, same results, just marketed as something new and exciting. People live off the hype, that's why most safes nowadays are made more for looks than functionality.


----------



## DEC

Sorry to break this to you "NoCam Fanboys", but a wheel with an off center hub used in this manner is A CAM. Anytime the radius of the force vector changes in relation to the hub it is a cam action. A cam (by definition) does not have to have progressive changes in it's curvature. This is a cam in sheep's clothing. This is a binary cam bow with a mask to make it look "different" so it will "wow" the audience into submission of their money.

I'm a mechanical engineer who turned down a job offer by Escalade Sports (Bear Archery) for a bow engineering position 5 or 6 years ago. I think I can tell a cam from a wheel ... and this is a cam masked as a wheel.


----------



## sixstringer4528

DeanH said:


> my bear jennings has round cams like that and offset center ? its kinda slow too..
> 
> 
> Seriously, i hope its a bit more then what it looks like.
> 
> and hope to test one soon, doubt i will get one but still would love to try it
> 
> looks wise, its .. interesting.


I feel like they are going backwards with technology not forwards....


----------



## COArrow

I always thought I would never own a Matthews, but this one I am a bit interested in. Certainly going to shoot it.


----------



## MISSION X3

I am laughing while reading this thread. It's a 2015 wheel bow. Looks good, impressive speed and let off options. No doubt it is super smooth and shoots great. Not so sure innovative is the right word. All the guys freaking out over the new technology is funny. Hey, look over here guys. Check out my Bear Whitetail 2. I bought it used for $75 in 1988. 
Hey I'm sure this is a great bow with the newest technology built in to it, just find it funny so many are amazed with a wheel bow.


----------



## Hoyt4683

Boy they look horrible.. but bravo on the no cam


----------



## Nevada Smith

Just wondering...

Do you think Cam will try the No Cam?

Hah! Get serious! No No Cam for Cam!

[Ducks and runs]


----------



## griffwar

stillrunnin said:


> If I wanted a bow that slow I would pull out my round wheeled bows from early 90s bow


Do it I bet they won't come close to 330 ibo.


----------



## ron w

DEC said:


> Sorry to break this to you "NoCam Fanboys", but a wheel with an off center hub used in this manner is A CAM. Anytime the radius of the force vector changes in relation to the hub it is a cam action. A cam (by definition) does not have to have progressive changes in it's curvature. This is a cam in sheep's clothing. This is a binary cam bow with a mask to make it look "different" so it will "wow" the audience into submission of their money.
> 
> I'm a mechanical engineer who turned down a job offer by Escalade Sports (Bear Archery) for a bow engineering position 5 or 6 years ago. I think I can tell a cam from a wheel ... and this is a cam masked as a wheel.


 exactly right.....
the eccentrics are simply all on the cable side of the "wheel", the "cam; is still there, it is only "marketing" and the average guys perception of what a compound's cam "has to look like" that makes people accept the "no cam" idea as, "revolutionary".
not to brag, but i' had that same idea in my head 15or 20 years ago and wondered why nobody ever tried it. the fact that the bow is exceptionally vibration free, is because of the reduction of inertia from the offsets being so small in diameter and the lack of the cam's large string track not being elliptical..
it's far from a "round wheel bow, as well. the string track has no eccentric travel as a round wheel bow would have.
I would assume the draw cycle is silky smooth.


----------



## CHobbs

DEC said:


> Sorry to break this to you "NoCam Fanboys", but a wheel with an off center hub used in this manner is A CAM. Anytime the radius of the force vector changes in relation to the hub it is a cam action. A cam (by definition) does not have to have progressive changes in it's curvature. This is a cam in sheep's clothing. This is a binary cam bow with a mask to make it look "different" so it will "wow" the audience into submission of their money.
> 
> I'm a mechanical engineer who turned down a job offer by Escalade Sports (Bear Archery) for a bow engineering position 5 or 6 years ago. I think I can tell a cam from a wheel ... and this is a cam masked as a wheel.


Very true. It is still cammed. And the yoke or whatever it is is offset and rotates with the wheel making the can action as well.

I did shoot one at 70# today and I can say that I was very impressed. It felt great, rock solid and smooth. Felt very much like a good binary. I am not normally a fan of Mathews but I did enjoy shooting this bow!


----------



## bcowette

griffwar said:


> Do it I bet they won't come close to 330 ibo.



Lets call it 320 ish. No one is going to shoot this thing at 65% letoff.


----------



## Predator

norsemen said:


> There are a lot of bows out there that are fairly vibe and shock free. In my opinion, Mathews made a huge mistake. A sub 7" BH bow, that I very much doubt comes in at 330 IBO (according to all the posted numbers so far). I'm not even interested in shooting the darn thing. At least last year, I was excited to shoot the Chill R and the Chill X. I'm sure the "die hards" will be eating this thing up though. And for $1100.00???????


Ditto


----------



## GREENBALL

I shot it this afternoon and was very impressed by the total lack of vibration and noise. This thing had to be the quietest bow I ever heard or shot. The draw is something guys will either love or hate, that's for you to decide. I'm not decided yet but I was shooting 1" groups with it immediately. Heck I even had a Robin Hood with it. It sure seemed accurate with the 20 or so shots I took.


----------



## Jeff Sturgis

Zero valley, very quiet, no shock, extremely smooth...sighted in with a few dozen shots and ready to hit the woods with it in the morning-can't wait! Outfitted with a Black Gold sight and Trophy Taker rest, really doesn't look ugly to me  very awesome looking bow!!


----------



## Cbrown06

I shot the no cam HTR 70/28.....75% let off....loved the draw cycle.....excellent balance....smooth draw to solid wall and dead quiet at the shot with no vibe. I like it. Try it.


----------



## Predator

possum said:


> Just when you think the cam system will be all McPhearson based they change everything. You have to respect Mathews for advanced technology. I think the HTR will be a nice hunting bow. Wish it was 35 ATA.


"Advanced technology"???? You have to be kidding.

The only thing Mathews is "advanced" at is marketing and making really good cool aid.


----------



## jwoadventures

Predator said:


> "Advanced technology"???? You have to be kidding.
> 
> The only thing Mathews is "advanced" at is marketing and making really good cool aid.


^^^^^ this


----------



## Jnmoor00

I'll go up to Lancaster archery and I'll sling an arrow. I look forward to seeing how it shoots and compare it to the addiction and other target bows.


----------



## deadduck357

Jeff Sturgis said:


> Zero valley, very quiet, no shock, extremely smooth...sighted in with a few dozen shots and ready to hit the woods with it in the morning-can't wait! Outfitted with a Black Gold sight and Trophy Taker rest, really doesn't look ugly to me  very awesome looking bow!!


Shot one today. Very impressed. Congrats.


----------



## onlyaspike

Id rather have a bow with yokes to tune if needed....I'll have to wait to shoot it to really see if I like it , but I just dont see myself coming off $1100 for a bow before it has any accessories on it. Im no "speed freak" either...but, before I spend that much on a roughly 320 fps bow I'll just keep my Drenalin.


----------



## davon

Looks alot like the PSE mach X from 2006


----------



## Ahiatt38

Just shot this bow and it is very very smooth! But Mathews has always been a smooth shooting bow. I guess we can only wait and see how the hold up.


----------



## R.Hunt1

stillrunnin said:


> If I wanted a bow that slow I would pull out my round wheeled bows from early 90s bow


 Nothing against you *stillrunnin*, just your post was worded right for my response, but why is everyone acting like the HTR is so slow, its not slow by any means, its pretty much right there at average I would think, if you average most of the bows out (with in its level of bows of course). Try and not use the BH as your reasoning because from what Mathews and most of the people who have shot it are saying it holds better and is more stable than a lot of the 7" and over BH.


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## Jnmoor00

Well I had a Z7 but I could never get my draw length right so the creep was bad cause it was always long. I have a creed XS I'm playing around with but it's also to long. I have another cam to slap on it Saturday. Shoots nice but it's like having shoes that are to big. My obsessions fit well. It kills me I'm hoping the 28" cam measures out to 28.5" on draw board if not I'll add the smaller stop and increase backwall and draw 1/4 inch


----------



## rattlinman

Wow, starting to smell a lot of jealousy in this thread! It's a shame they didn't offer it in "ENVY Green"!

I'm glad to see between all the attackers that a few that have actually shot it was impressed. Maybe everyone should try that first....or maybe not, then it would be hard to still cut it down......


----------



## rattlinman

Jeff Sturgis said:


> Zero valley, very quiet, no shock, extremely smooth...sighted in with a few dozen shots and ready to hit the woods with it in the morning-can't wait! Outfitted with a Black Gold sight and Trophy Taker rest, really doesn't look ugly to me  very awesome looking bow!!


You win Jeff! I haven't even shot one yet and you already own one!

Now go out, kill something, and post some pics of that new beast in action!

Congrats!


----------



## Jnmoor00

R.Hunt1 said:


> Nothing against you *stillrunnin*, just your post was worded right for my response, but why is everyone acting like the HTR is so slow, its not slow by any means, its pretty much right there at average I would think, if you average most of the bows out (with in its level of bows of course). Try and not use the BH as your reasoning because from what Mathews and most of the people who have shot it are saying it holds better and is more stable than a lot of the 7" and over BH.


I tell you here's the deal Hoyt usually runs close to advertised in my experience....my obsession don't make the IBO fall about 20 FPS short and my mathews have been able to get a read on them due to the draw length issues


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## elkbow69

No wheres my costco sized bottle of maple syrup. WOW, that is innovative for sure but, the 7/8/9 bows are truly a wafflebows. I mean U-uuu--uuuuuGLY!


----------



## Jnmoor00

rattlinman said:


> Wow, starting to smell a lot of jealousy in this thread! It's a shame they didn't offer it in "ENVY Green"!
> 
> I'm glad to see between all the attackers that a few that have actually shot it was impressed. Maybe everyone should try that first....or maybe not, then it would be hard to still cut it down......


True if like to see more side by side uncut comparisons like that fella did with the creed and that sniper GT.


----------



## griffwar

Jeff Sturgis said:


> Zero valley, very quiet, no shock, extremely smooth...sighted in with a few dozen shots and ready to hit the woods with it in the morning-can't wait! Outfitted with a Black Gold sight and Trophy Taker rest, really doesn't look ugly to me  very awesome looking bow!!


Nice I will shoot it tomorrow wanted two today but to many people in front of Me. On a side note I got to shoot the PRIME RIVAL all I wanted it was sweet.


----------



## Jnmoor00

elkbow69 said:


> No wheres my costco sized bottle of maple syrup. WOW, that is innovative for sure but, the 7/8/9 bows are truly a wafflebows. I mean U-uuu--uuuuuGLY!


I tell you I had some bad luck with the waffle design on the XS I put on that CBE hybrid and in the rear of that sight are little mounting holes, maybe four sets...well those holes and that waffle did not get along. Thanks to a stand up kolorfusion company I had that bow refinished. Excellent job and I slapped a blackgold sight on the bow. I have a axcel single pin ready to go for this new mathews if, after I visit Lancaster archery I end up buying it


----------



## little buddy

I have not owed a Mathews since the switchback. Last year the Chill R got my attention and I think this new Mathews looks pretty cool! I am waiting for some feedback from a few reliable AT members. I wish it was a bit faster but only because I have a very short dl. If I was 28" or more I would not care about IBO at all.


----------



## griffwar

Jnmoor00 said:


> I tell you here's the deal Hoyt usually runs close to advertised in my experience....my obsession don't make the IBO fall about 20 FPS short and my mathews have been able to get a read on them due to the draw length issues


I have found all bow's from every company has draw length issues, as a matter of fact somewhere on all these threads there was a independent article stating that fact. If I remember right only one company, I do believe it was Obsession was the only company to come in the draw length they stated on the bow, all the rest where long.


----------



## nimh

50 pound trg8 would be a fun shooting bow I think.


----------



## Jnmoor00

I don't stick my nose up I'll try it but for all you mathews shooters the bows draws run long if I'm a 28.5" what cam should I order a 28"
Or 27.5"


----------



## JPR79

I read through about half the comments and here's my two cents, take it or leave it.

1) I am NOT a Mathews hater. I've shot several nice Mathews bows that I liked but never cared for the grip and back wall.

2) What is the efficiency of this design? Something tells me it's VERY POOR. I can take a hybrid, dual or binary and lose about 10 fps per inch of draw length (I have a 26.5" draw)... a single cam I lose A LOT more speed. If you aren't built to shoot IBO, you'll never get close to it.

3) Why are you marketing some older tech like it's brand new? Yeah, no thanks.

4) If you are going to sell a bow at flagship prices, it better have flagship speed. This doesn't come close to the competition.

Sorry, but this is why Mathews laid off a bunch of employees recently. Yeah, kudos for having the balls to do it, but you can polish a turd as much as you want and it's still a turd. I'm disappointed in the SPECS. If they shoot absolutely flawless, that's a different story, and I bet they will make good target/3D bows, but I wouldn't hunt with one personally.


----------



## NYSBowman

rattlinman said:


> Wow, starting to smell a lot of jealousy in this thread! It's a shame they didn't offer it in "ENVY Green"!


Why is it if people don't like a Mathews bow...."they must be jealous"? 

I guess it's based on their high price point. Fanboys must truly believe that the only people who don't shoot Mathews...are those who can't afford one.

Round wheels for $1100 bucks?? No thanks.


----------



## highwaynorth

I actually thing the HTR doesn't look too bad. A lot better than the 28" bows with a radically reflexed riser.
While 330 fps isn't the fastest, it isn't too bad.


----------



## Hoyt4683

I still think my Faktor can run circles around it. I used to shoot mathews till I found something I like a lot more.. interesting to see how much people get one


----------



## gdzfast12

What's revolutionary about this? My very first compound bear bow had "no cam" technology. That was back in 1997.


----------



## ksduckhunter87

Drew back one today. Overall pretty decent I thought. Didn't find it life changing, but it was also set up for a 26 or 27 inch draw. I'm a 30.5. The shop guys were saying when they chronographed at 30 it was in the ballpark for 330fps


----------



## Chopayne

MISSION X3 said:


> I am laughing while reading this thread. It's a 2015 wheel bow. Looks good, impressive speed and let off options. No doubt it is super smooth and shoots great. Not so sure innovative is the right word. All the guys freaking out over the new technology is funny. Hey, look over here guys. Check out my Bear Whitetail 2. I bought it used for $75 in 1988.
> Hey I'm sure this is a great bow with the newest technology built in to it, just find it funny so many are amazed with a wheel bow.


haha I laughed reading your post. I seriously don't get these people touting it as something great. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But im a skeptic.


----------



## gdzfast12

Also by definition those are still cams. Think about it, if they were a perfect wheel with an axle running through the dead center there would be no way to achieve let off. I'm not saying the bow doesn't shoot well, I sure it does!


----------



## Mathias

rattlinman said:


> Wow, starting to smell a lot of jealousy in this thread! It's a shame they didn't offer it in "ENVY Green"!
> 
> I'm glad to see between all the attackers that a few that have actually shot it was impressed. Maybe everyone should try that first....or maybe not, then it would be hard to still cut it down......


or possibly* "predator"* camo…...


----------



## diesel305

Jeff Sturgis said:


> Zero valley, very quiet, no shock, extremely smooth...sighted in with a few dozen shots and ready to hit the woods with it in the morning-can't wait! Outfitted with a Black Gold sight and Trophy Taker rest, really doesn't look ugly to me  very awesome looking bow!!


Very nice! Looks super smooth n i already know the back wall with those rock mods!


----------



## Tripper

Chopayne said:


> haha I laughed reading your post. I seriously don't get these people touting it as something great. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But im a skeptic.


I wouldn't say you are a skeptic, more like a pessimist. If everything isn't in your realm of being correct you dismiss it as unworthy or midigate it as irrelevant. 
Try to look at the positive things in life. You waste a lot of energy bringing your self down to a level where you have a rain cloud over your head. Go out side and get some fresh air!


----------



## XxHolleyxX

Just wondering about this "Zero valley". Havent heard anything like that in any other reviews. 



Jeff Sturgis said:


> Zero valley, very quiet, no shock, extremely smooth...sighted in with a few dozen shots and ready to hit the woods with it in the morning-can't wait! Outfitted with a Black Gold sight and Trophy Taker rest, really doesn't look ugly to me  very awesome looking bow!!


----------



## wileycat

Htr is very nice but others are funny looking.


----------



## whip54

Ok just got from my local mathews dealer and here is what I think. Now before you bash me I did not shoot the bow so this isn't about the way the bow shoots. Only reason I didn't shoot the bow is he had already sold it as soon as it came in this afternoon. But first the bow looks amazing in person while it is a geo grid which I'm not a fan of it is a very mean looking bow. The weight felt good seemed a little top heavy but that's a mathews trait to me anyway. The draw cycle to me was the hardest to draw bow I have ever drawn back in my life and it was set around 58 pounds. We adjusted it to 70 pounds and I couldn't even draw it back, my son could. Now granted I was using my fingers and sitting down I'm just on week out of acl surgery do to a fall from a treestand while taking it down. But I thought that was just to harsh of a drwa. But I thought it was just me and the lack of me being tired from sitting around the past week. I drawed a creed back to back with the no cam and the creed was so much smoother than this bow. Now this is just my opinion on this bow its just not the bow for me you may shoot it and love it. I am not bashing this bow because I so wanted to like cause I think it is revolutionary matt done a good job with it its just not for me. My prayers are with you all may GOD bless each of you.


----------



## TexasCanesFan

rattlinman said:


> Wow, starting to smell a lot of jealousy in this thread! It's a shame they didn't offer it in "ENVY Green"!.


Easy on the use of the word Envy, Johnny. I am sure Elite is gonna use that name again. 2017 Limited Edition?!?!?!?


----------



## Jnmoor00

Ha that's funny right their


----------



## Nevada Smith

So if my understanding is correct:



Code:


Marketing      Reality
=============  =======
No Cam         Cam
Revolutionary  Old fashioned
MSRP $1099     Maybe Should Reconsider Price


----------



## Jnmoor00

Yeah it's a pretty expensive bow. I guess bows are like gas prices. Once They inflate and go over A certain amount it's hard to get them back down


----------



## Jnmoor00

Then of course if they are 700 or $800 then people think they're cheap built.


----------



## rockyw

> Looks alot like the PSE mach X from 2006


Looks like a lot of old wheel bows, now I'm thinking of putting a set of training wheels on my Full Throttle. Really I'm not trying to tick off the Mathew fans but this already has been made fun of more than anything for a while. *It's like a Mathews retro bow. *


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## Jnmoor00

The call them throwbacks


----------



## little buddy

That thing must draw like butter.


----------



## deadduck357

Jnmoor00 said:


> Yeah it's a pretty expensive bow. I guess bows are like gas prices. Once They inflate and go over A certain amount it's hard to get them back down


My local dealer has a $999 sticker on theirs.


----------



## force1

I would go look at this bow and shoot it,I did and it looks impressive and shoots great and with absolutely straight nock travel would be very acurate, and the axles are exactly through the center of the wheels,the modules and swivel with the bearing make up the cam, this is no throwback in my opinion and I beleive your going to see alot of tournements won with this bow.


----------



## deadduck357

XxHolleyxX said:


> Just wondering about this "Zero valley". Havent heard anything like that in any other reviews.


It's true. Just falls in and there is the backwall.


----------



## Chopayne

Tripper said:


> I wouldn't say you are a skeptic, more like a pessimist. If everything isn't in your realm of being correct you dismiss it as unworthy or midigate it as irrelevant.
> Try to look at the positive things in life. You waste a lot of energy bringing your self down to a level where you have a rain cloud over your head. Go out side and get some fresh air!


God dang. You just crapped on my day. Hehe I see your point. I'm actually an optimist, but I think this no cam deal is simple sensationalism.


----------



## Chopayne

Jnmoor00 said:


> Then of course if they are 700 or $800 then people think they're cheap built.


Irony of things. I often equate quality with price and have to often take a step back to look at the reality of things.


----------



## Toxik

Cool! But not revolutionary this is Mr. Allen's design just updated, I had a Allen speedster in 76 it was no cam.


----------



## bghunter7777

This thread is absurd common theme of bashers=have not shot one+ self esteem issues


----------



## AngelRa

Shot an HTR today, maybe about 50 times. It does have a generous letoff and a solid wall. What is different is that the string rides in a wheel but the cables go in aggressive small cams. Basically, move all the cam lobe to the cable side leaving the string in a round wheel.

There will be wheel (cam) sync tuning, just like any bow. This is evident by the fact that it does have a "hump" in the draw cycle force. The wheel does have a very easy indicator for sync.

Compared directly to a Chill X, both set at 60 pounds, 28":

The HTR is quieter and have a more refined feel. Both have very nice and easy to draw cycle.
The "hump" in the draw cycle in the HTR is towards the middle and end of the cycle, while the Chill X is right at the beginning of the cycle.
With the Chill X, if you get the cycle started, then it gets easier from there, the HTR, in the other hand, starts very easy and gets the hardest at the middle or end of the cycle. 

I like both, the Chill X and the HTR. But, if I were to buy one, I would go with the HTR.


----------



## pinshooter

I shot it today.....before I shot it the looks just didn't overwhelm me....shooting it I thought the draw was stiff, stiffer than I care for but on the shot it was the quietest bow I've ever shot. 28" draw, 59lb, 370gr arrow it shot 255fps. Valley wasn't very deep but deep enough that it won't take off on you. Over all (after shooting it) I think its a good offering......myself I ordered a Z2. I always like my Z7 extreme but I found anything under 30" ATA is too short for me. I think Mathews will do well this year.


----------



## Jeff Sturgis

XxHolleyxX said:


> Just wondering about this "Zero valley". Havent heard anything like that in any other reviews.


Zero valley. I have owned almost every Mathews bow and this is right up there with the shortest valleys, which I like a lot. Seems about he same as my Creed, but possibly even shorter. Shot maybe 50 arrows though it to paper tune, sight-in 20 and 30, shoot my Shuttle Ts...love it! 

Really excited about this one...like Christmas need to get some blood on it during this next cold front


----------



## wojoattack

Will be shooting this one for sure!! First Mathews that I've wanted to shoot in a long long time.


----------



## speedaddiction

Okay, 
I shot one of these today and as a Mathews owner and follower here are my initial thoughts:
Pros:
1. Quiet
2. Dead in Hand after shot (No better than my monster chill)
3. Rock solid back wall
4. Did not get a chance to shoot for accuracy but I would imagine this is the best thing going for it...
Cons:
1. Slow
2. No valley, no really none at all, this is only compounded if you shoot 65% mods
3. Heavy
4. Poor Draw cycle, I would try to describe it but you just need to shoot one
5. Cost

In closing Mathews is still the bow I prefer but this was not the "game changer" I was hearing about. In general terms when bows get slower, more expensive and stay over that 4.1 lb mark they are not "Game Changers". This is definitely different just not my cup of tea. If I were to buy a bow right now new it would be the Chill R due to the fact it is lighter, faster, just as dead in hand, better back wall, smoother draw cycle and deadly quiet. I am looking to add a bow to my collection and since I already have a Chill I am going shopping for a used Heli-M.

Just my 2 cents guys, I am sure there will be folks that gravitate to this bow it's just not me. 

Regards,


----------



## avidarcher88pa

Tipsntails7 said:


> Kinda what I was thinking. I give them credit from going away from the norm but didn't we go to shaped cams for a reason. It will be smooth, and if it makes 330 ibo that will be amazingly smooth for that speed.


I agree my old pse has round cams . I am no engineer but seems to be old idea, bigger wheel. Guess I gotta go shoot one. Till then,maxxis is my go to.


----------



## Chopayne

You can always reinvent the wheel.


----------



## durby

Ha Mathews the 80`s called! They want there cam system back. jk... looks like a nice bow, not many curves in the riser. The cam system looks interesting, they say the cams cant go out of tune (how will they tune :gasp). They also said "technology of the future", I thought that the futures technology would be faster, lighter, smaller. But Matthews broke all laws by going "back to the future" with this one. But that's my opinion. If you are looking for a expensive, durable, "classy" bow I would pick this one. No hate just my opinion!


----------



## whip54

Jnmoor00 said:


> Then of course if they are 700 or $800 then people think they're cheap built.


I've never paid over 760.00 for a new mathews and I've bought them sinc the switchback


----------



## Jeff Sturgis

Forgot to mention....was within 1fps of my Creed...the 1 thing I would have liked to have seen improved.


----------



## Jnmoor00

Well I have bought probably 16 bows since 2009 and only had one that came under 850 that was the G5 primal


----------



## tmorelli

I shot one tonight. Definitely dead and a quiet. Seemed stable. They seem to have managed cam lean well by balancing the load in having cable tracks on both sides of the string track. All that said, I thought draw cycle was nothing special and the dump into the 85% valley sucked. My most glaring comment, they're going to have to do something else to get some clearance between the cam and cable. The bottom cam rubbed the cable sleeve through the draw cycle hard enough that I could feel and hear it. They know they have an issue or they wouldn't have put those sleeves on there.


----------



## tripleb2431

Look it's the new matthews NO YOKES i mean no cam.


----------



## shooter74

bcowette said:


> How the duck does a no cam work?


you do know how to shoot a bow don't you??????


----------



## cmd242

I fixed it, fellas. Looks much better now without those dinglebeeries hanging off the back.


----------



## tripleb2431

cmd242 said:


> I fixed it, fellas. Looks much better now.


Man that's crazy ugly. I wish matthews all the best hope this new cam is a great new product for the archery industry (though with no yoke how are ya going to get rid of cam lean). But gosh dang if ya do get rich off this new technology please higher new riser designers. Matthew risers look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on thier way down. Lol


----------



## gersig

Sorry maybe I missed it.... But what's the name of this new bow? Matthews.....


----------



## Chopayne

gersig said:


> Sorry maybe I missed it.... But what's the name of this new bow? Matthews.....


"No Cam" If only they had been as innovative with their name


----------



## MrSinister

I thought it was the HTR built for all the haters LOL.


----------



## gersig

Chopayne said:


> "No Cam" If only they had been as innovative with their name


Seriously?....that's the name of it...kinda boring


----------



## dw022946

Only time and experience will prove this bow. Lots of needless chatter out here. And whats up with this bow beaty thing? I just shoot animals.


----------



## General RE LEE

tripleb2431 said:


> Man that's crazy ugly. I wish matthews all the best hope this new cam is a great new product for the archery industry (though with no yoke how are ya going to get rid of cam lean). But gosh dang if ya do get rich off this new technology please higher new riser designers. Matthew risers look like they fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on thier way down. Lol


About as ugly as your poor grammar


----------



## tripleb2431

General RE LEE said:


> About as ugly as your poor grammar


Hey facts are facts That's an ugly bow and i do have terrible grammer lol let that be lesson to all ya stay in school.


----------



## General RE LEE

tripleb2431 said:


> Hey facts are facts That's an ugly bow and i do have terrible grammer lol let that be lesson to all ya stay in school.


Lol


----------



## rockles

I'd like to shoot one but man that thing is heavy. seriously, look at the specs.


----------



## dw022946

Oh come on! 6 ounces heavier and looking for a beauty contest winner.There is always lipstick and gym ! lol


----------



## b0w_bender

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like you need to remove the axle in order to change out the cable? Is that right?


----------



## recurveman

HTR dont look bad as a bow but those other THINGS I would not own if they were free. Mathews finally did it....they created bows that make the Z9 look fast and revolutionary.


----------



## dfinke

robbyreneeward said:


> If you watch the video the center of the axles are not dead center of the wheel so letoff is still there


The center of the axles are dead center, the cable guide is what is offset.


----------



## tripleb2431

How do ya tune left and right cam lean out of this system? Guessing by adjusting DL like you do with binary? That's a big negative for me. But im sure with cams being identical this has potential to be an incredibly quiet bow i do like that feature


----------



## cloquet

Sure wish it had a shoot thru rizer.


----------



## abcde1230

ok someone please tell me in all the history of archery has there ever been a bow like this? Name aside cuz it is a cam... But how many cams are round? I have been shooting a bow for exactly 8 months and this bow after shooting it was one different two very comfortable. I have never really been to this site but as a boot ass no nothing person I feel right at home. Only a hand full of you had anything at all worth listening to.. Out of all the rage how many have shot this bow. I have mastered many weapons in my day and this is no different. I want to hear facts someone please that shot in the 80's 90's has this design ever been implemented? I looked at my dads old 80s bow and to my knowledge they are NOT cams but wheels.. This bow IS A ROUNDED CAM, which with the riser and limbs, make this different then anything before... So how is that not innovative? Unless this exact design is been used then IM SELLING IT IF I DON"T LIKE IT.. not used to so many people imputing on **** they no nothing about... Who has real answers to my questions?


----------



## abcde1230

Today I heard a man who has been shooting for 40 years say I don't know about this bow...


----------



## abcde1230

I am thinking comfort = accuracy because pain stuff I hate leads to rushed shots... Not being able to shoot enough cuz of fatigue yes I am a little girl, but still fact.. I have shot over a million rounds out of a gun and still not mastered it.... How do I shoot a million arrows? I think comfort... Speed is great if I can handle the bow right? How many times to you shoot your bow at a deer vs a target with beer? I think a bow should be comfortable... Someone told me you only need about 30-40# to kill any thing walking and well history does not lie.. How did we move away from the traditional or recurve? Wheel.. What did that spawn? Cams and new risers and limbs some of the best in the world.. Now what if all that needed to be changed in this quest to make a perfect bow is in the limbs and risers? what changed in 30 years? Everything... IS this really different? if so Like others have said, and like any true good bow time will tell? I am excited.. If I wanted to shoot 1000 yds what would I use, what would I do? What if I wanted to do anything that takes a lifetime to master? Find something that will last to decide if its worthy... If I find or shoot a better bow for me, I will not tell any of you cuz its for me... I will shoot it through a chronograph for you speed junkies, I was touching a golf tee pin at 30yds today with a uncomfortable bow... If I can't do this with the (yes i am spraying the no cam part) my nephew does not get a new bow for xmas lol......


----------



## Norwegian Woods

tmorelli said:


> My most glaring comment, they're going to have to do something else to get some clearance between the cam and cable. The bottom cam rubbed the cable sleeve through the draw cycle hard enough that I could feel and hear it. They know they have an issue or they wouldn't have put those sleeves on there.


This is what makes me the most worried about the bow and the main reason for why I advice others to wait for the No Cam version 1.1 or 1.2.
No doubt they have put the protector there because they have an issue they have not manged to solve in a better way yet.


----------



## abcde1230

Norwegian Woods said:


> This is what makes me the most worried about the bow and the main reason for why I advice others to wait for the No Cam version 1.1 or 1.2.
> No doubt they have put the protector there because they have an issue they have not manged to solve in a better way yet.


So if this is a design flaw Mathews covers it correct. Like oil in a car but the delear covers it. That's my argument to Mathews lol. But also many people already called Mathews about this and they said it's fine. Again weir and tear noramal all me. Deign flaw all them. Beautiful thing about buying state of the art you can make it better. Patience with this bow is an awesome choice and I been thinking long and hard. I want a bow that I won't need to waste money on. If that is a quest of wasting a bunch of money so he it when I have it. This is what is before me and I tell you. If the speeds can kill. It's comfortable Mathews stands by their products I will never need to buy another bow again.


----------



## tmorelli

abcde1230 said:


> So if this is a design flaw Mathews covers it correct. Like oil in a car but the delear covers it. That's my argument to Mathews lol. But also many people already called Mathews about this and they said it's fine. Again weir and tear noramal all me. Deign flaw all them. Beautiful thing about buying state of the art you can make it better. Patience with this bow is an awesome choice and I been thinking long and hard. I want a bow that I won't need to waste money on. If that is a quest of wasting a bunch of money so he it when I have it. This is what is before me and I tell you. If the speeds can kill. It's comfortable Mathews stands by their products I will never need to buy another bow again.


Its not fine. 

Put your thinking cap on for a minute. 

Is it reasonable to think that this advertised superior accuracy is ever actually going to be had from a system where the cable is being rubbed by the cam? 

You worked hard to quiet down your draw....you mole skinned your rest, maybe you choose an arrow that is silent on the draw...and on the shot. Your moment arrives... He steps into your shooting lane....you draw.......\=¢^|×[¥°¢°€}®°¢.....oh yeah, the cables rub your no-cams. He's gone.

It's not OK and telling people it is, is almost as douchy as calling it a no-cam. The only reason to build this as they did was so they could say they have something new to offer.


----------



## tmorelli

XxHolleyxX said:


> Just wondering about this "Zero valley". Havent heard anything like that in any other reviews.


That not at all what inexperienced. The bow I shot had 85% mods on it and I hated it just like all other high let off bows because it had a gigantic valley and had to be almost pushed to let it down.


----------



## ron w

can you say...."adult sized Genisis"


----------



## flinginairos

At first the new cams really peeked my interest but now I think it's kinda funny. What did Mathews fix exactly? I can see it being a big deal if the cams were the smoothest ever and still produced great speed but it sure seems like they don't! Mediocre draw cycle and slow speeds PLUS an ugly riser. You could take many of the speed bows today, turn them down to 55-60lbs and get a great draw and still have great speed. I'm not bashing, I think about every company out now has some great stuff, but I'm just not seeing it with this one!


----------



## Garceau

Im pretty much a Mathews hater.

I was real impressed with the HTR. very smooth, hard wall, balanced well with my grip. Quiet, no vibe.

Long riser for the ATA


----------



## mongopino915

b0w_bender said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like you need to remove the axle in order to change out the cable? Is that right?


It is no big deal plus you only need to change the cables once a great while.:wink:


----------



## Boubou

tmorelli said:


> Its not fine.
> 
> Put your thinking cap on for a minute.
> 
> Is it reasonable to think that this advertised superior accuracy is ever actually going to be had from a system where the cable is being rubbed by the cam?
> 
> You worked hard to quiet down your draw....you mole skinned your rest, maybe you choose an arrow that is silent on the draw...and on the shot. Your moment arrives... He steps into your shooting lane....you draw.......\=¢^|×[¥°¢°€}®°¢.....oh yeah, the cables rub your no-cams. He's gone.
> 
> It's not OK and telling people it is, is almost as douchy as calling it a no-cam. The only reason to build this as they did was so they could say they have something new to offer.


I havent seen or drawn the bow, but for years i hunted with carbon arrows on a bare metal fork arrow rest, the noise of drawing the arrow has never been a problem. I work with some teflon doodads, they dont make noise, I doubt noise will be an issue, but like i said i havent tried the bow.
It is a bit of a bummer as this "seems" to be a band aid solution, but then I think Mathews did put the bow through its paces and it should be fine, but time will tell.
A couple of people who shot the bow said the only noise they heard is the sound of their mechanical release, so...
Think of the teflon as the precious mole skin on your rest


----------



## jflats123

They said its a target bow


----------



## rackfreak210

Capital_Ken said:


> Uglier than a mud fence in a rain storm.


It sure is. Wow that thing is hideous.


----------



## vince71969

JPR79 said:


> I read through about half the comments and here's my two cents, take it or leave it.
> 
> 1) I am NOT a Mathews hater. I've shot several nice Mathews bows that I liked but never cared for the grip and back wall.
> 
> 2) What is the efficiency of this design? Something tells me it's VERY POOR. I can take a hybrid, dual or binary and lose about 10 fps per inch of draw length (I have a 26.5" draw)... a single cam I lose A LOT more speed. If you aren't built to shoot IBO, you'll never get close to it.
> 
> 3) Why are you marketing some older tech like it's brand new? Yeah, no thanks.
> 
> 4) If you are going to sell a bow at flagship prices, it better have flagship speed. This doesn't come close to the competition.
> 
> Sorry, but this is why Mathews laid off a bunch of employees recently. Yeah, kudos for having the balls to do it, but you can polish a turd as much as you want and it's still a turd. I'm disappointed in the SPECS. If they shoot absolutely flawless, that's a different story, and I bet they will make good target/3D bows, but I wouldn't hunt with one personally.


Wow. There's just so much wrong with this statement that I wouldn't know where to begin


----------



## tmorelli

Boubou said:


> I havent seen or drawn the bow, but for years i hunted with carbon arrows on a bare metal fork arrow rest, the noise of drawing the arrow has never been a problem. I work with some teflon doodads, they dont make noise, I doubt noise will be an issue, but like i said i havent tried the bow.
> It is a bit of a bummer as this "seems" to be a band aid solution, but then I think Mathews did put the bow through its paces and it should be fine, but time will tell.
> A couple of people who shot the bow said the only noise they heard is the sound of their mechanical release, so...
> Think of the teflon as the precious mole skin on your rest


I shot it. You should too.


----------



## goodoleboy11

tmorelli said:


> Its not fine.
> 
> Put your thinking cap on for a minute.
> 
> Is it reasonable to think that this advertised superior accuracy is ever actually going to be had from a system where the cable is being rubbed by the cam?
> 
> You worked hard to quiet down your draw....you mole skinned your rest, maybe you choose an arrow that is silent on the draw...and on the shot. Your moment arrives... He steps into your shooting lane....you draw.......\=¢^|×[¥°¢°€}[emoji768]°¢.....oh yeah, the cables rub your no-cams. He's gone.
> 
> It's not OK and telling people it is, is almost as douchy as calling it a no-cam. The only reason to build this as they did was so they could say they have something new to offer.


You would have a point if that happened. Lol I shot it a lot, it doesn't drag against the cam.. It is the quietest bow I've ever heard


----------



## tmorelli

goodoleboy11 said:


> You would have a point if that happened. Lol I shot it a lot, it doesn't drag against the cam.. It is the quietest bow I've ever heard


The one I shot rubbed on the bottom hard enough that I could feel and hear it on the draw. It was very quiet shooting though.


----------



## goodoleboy11

tmorelli said:


> The one I shot rubbed on the bottom hard enough that I could feel and hear it on the draw. It was very quiet shooting though.


That sucks, you are the only one I've seen say that. Not sticking up for them about it, but even if it happened I guarantee it is not loud enough to ruin a deer hunt. Lol


----------



## tmorelli

goodoleboy11 said:


> That sucks, you are the only one I've seen say that. Not sticking up for them about it, but even if it happened I guarantee it is not loud enough to ruin a deer hunt. Lol


I'm guessing it could be fixed via minor shimming but the cams ran pretty straight.

Have you ever been busted on the draw from arrow on the rest, or your sleeve crinkling? There's a reason we moleskin and wear wool, fleece, etc. On a quiet morning it doesn't take much.


----------



## goodoleboy11

tmorelli said:


> I'm guessing it could be fixed via minor shimming but the cams ran pretty straight.
> 
> Have you ever been busted on the draw from arrow on the rest, or your sleeve crinkling? There's a reason we moleskin and wear wool, fleece, etc. On a quiet morning it doesn't take much.


Never been busted on the draw. If the deer is alerted that far, I haven't done my job as a hunter and I won't take the shot if a deer is staring at me or is spooked. I've been hunting a long time too. I've been busted a few times of course, but never on the draw. There's no way that would spook a deer, I could say that pretty confidently. Regardless, I do agree with you that it should not be rubbing the cam.


----------



## Chiro_Archer

I was happy to see Mathews doing something different for once, but having a 31"dl would have me spending 1500 for a new chill, or 1800 for a new trg (neither of which i am going to do), the htr stops at 30, dunno about their Z2 I wasnt really interested in that one. So a nod to them for finally doing something different, and a headshake to them for the price tags


----------



## tripleb2431

goodoleboy11 said:


> Never been busted on the draw. If the deer is alerted that far, I haven't done my job as a hunter and I won't take the shot if a deer is staring at me or is spooked. I've been hunting a long time too. I've been busted a few times of course, but never on the draw. There's no way that would spook a deer, I could say that pretty confidently. Regardless, I do agree with you that it should not be rubbing the cam.


Evidently you've never hunted those cold days where there's absolutely no wind and the woods is insanely quiet. I assure ya on those days deer can hear ya draw.


----------



## goodoleboy11

tripleb2431 said:


> Evidently you've never hunted those cold days where there's absolutely no wind and the woods is insanely quiet. I assure ya on those days deer can hear ya draw.


Lol yeah you're right. I haven't hunted cold days. Get real dude. Shows how you think telling somebody you don't know what their hunting experience is? I assure you they can't hear you draw unless you have a damn blade rest on the bow, or unless they know you are hunting them. Sounds to me like you either need to work on your skills or your deer have a sixth sense.


----------



## sagecreek

Does anyone remember the first Bowtech Binary cams? They had a payout grove on one side and the takeup groove on the opposite side to minimze cam lean. There was a problem with the cables rubbing the cams when they crossed over to the cable rod. They followed suite on the Elite/High Country two-track binary to remedy this. 

I'm calling the Mathews No Cam very similar to the original Bowtech 3 track binary - minus the bearing assembly used as the payout side.


----------



## skiisme753

b0w_bender said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like you need to remove the axle in order to change out the cable? Is that right?


No you don't have to remove the axle. One end basically has a girth hitch on it and the other side has a peg.


----------



## nanodr

To be clear, this is neither innovative or revolutionary. It is clever, going back to basics and using some modern accouterments on an older design, like bigger cams and parallel limbs. Ford putting a big engine back in the Mustang sure was damn cool, but it wasn't innovative.


----------



## Jeff Sturgis

I am extremely picky when it comes to noise and the draw/cables/sleeve wasn't noticeable to me. Heck, my arms creak louder! Very quiet bow, very easy to sight in with very good forgiveness. I love my Creed too...but in the first 50 arrows the HTR is more forgiving so far. My buddy shoots a Switchback XT and was considering changing to the Creed because it is so much quieter...I would have to shoot them side by side, but the HTR is at least as quiet as my Creed. The Switchback used to seem so quiet but man ALL bows are so much quieter now then several years ago, no matter what your flavor of bow. 

On a side thought: this bow is ugly, or that bow is ugly-really? Heck, I have shot Mathews exclusively for over 20 years and I love the way they look. But, I love the way almost all the new bows look! The are so much cleaner and more advanced than decades past...the HTR is a pretty cool looking bow, with the features of a Mathews. Very clean finish on the HTR, the riser flows into the limbs and I have always loved the grid design. Seems minimal but tough. Just my thoughts, but a lot of the new bows are pretty badarse!


----------



## Boubou

nanodr said:


> To be clear, this is neither innovative or revolutionary.


Yup, bows have risers, limbs and strings. No bow is revolutionary.
Maybe using old technology and making it better IS revolutionary


----------



## Boubou

tmorelli said:


> I shot it. You should too.


Its on my list of things to do, but living in Canada, i wont hold my breath until they have them in the shops


----------



## nismomike

I got an email yesterday that it had arrived and to come shoot it. First impression was that the riser shape looked like a large femur bone. It was hanging next to a Creed and the limbs looked about 1.5" to 2" inches shorter. The large holes on each end of the riser to me look odd shaped. But who cares about my opinion of its visual design. The machining on the entire bow was superb. The cams, the riser, all of it was flawless. Being a Hoyt shooter, I immediately began drooling over the lost camo finish. It really is nice and has zero reflection. If you look into the geo-grid cut outs you will occasionally see small spots of primer showing, but nothing to get bothered by. The bow only had a d-loop and QAD HDX rest on it. It balanced very well imo. Felt solid and a couple palm taps on the limb pockets revealed no vibe or buzz. The bow was set at 63# and 28" draw and 85% let off. I am a 29" draw, so my opinion of draw cycle and hump or dump is really not applicable here. It didn't have any mush in the beginning of the draw. Just a gradual linear increase in weight until about 3/8 of the way through, then leveled off for about 1/4 of the draw, then rolled down into the let off and straight into the wall. Now like I said, I'm a 29" and the bow was a 28" so it was hard to get a feel for the valley when I settled in, but to me it felt like it would smoothly roll forward out of the letoff. Not have that feeling of being pushed forward to let down. On the shot, it had no jump. Just slight quick tip back and roll forward. Very quiet and no vibe that I could discern. But I also barely touch the bow grip until it has rolled forward. I shot it with easton axis 422 gr. and fmj about 470 gr. and they sounded the same. Can't say if it held well, but it did seem like a bow I could shoot for a long session without getting fatigued. Wish I could have shot it at my draw length. The cable sleeves were not touching the cams at brace. About 1/8" gap on the top and 1/16" gap at the bottom. It did eventually start showing marks from whipping into the cam after release, but I don't think it was hitting until after the arrow left the string. Overall it is a nice bow. Riser aesthetics are not my cup of tea, but who cares about my cup of tea. We did chronograph it with the 422 grain axis. 247 fps. That's straight out of the box tune.
Crappy video of the shot. I only recorded the video to capture noise, but you can see after the shot the top cam comes into view for a slit second then rolls forward. Wish it had the entire bow in the shot, but again, just trying to capture the sound for a buddy who requested it.
Mathews HTR NoCam: http://youtu.be/TN8wwSvGWBI


----------



## toxophilus84

Holy Guacamole... price jump since PayneTrain's image post yesterday?!?! Still will be looking forward to see how smooth this really is.


----------



## dberg76

toxophilus84 said:


> Holy Guacamole... price jump since PayneTrain's image post yesterday?!?! Still will be looking forward to see how smooth this really is.
> 
> View attachment 2077991



You are looking at the prices of two different bows.... The HTR msrp's at $1,099. TRG's mrsp at $1,799


----------



## goodoleboy11

toxophilus84 said:


> Holy Guacamole... price jump since PayneTrain's image post yesterday?!?! Still will be looking forward to see how smooth this really is.
> 
> View attachment 2077991


That's what the trgs have always been..


----------



## Kstigall

We fooled with a 28" 70 lb HTR model last night for a few minutes. I personally did not shoot it because I have a 25 7/8" draw and I no longer even consider shooting bows at 70 lbs that are too long for me!!

The cable guard sleeve did not rub the cam on the one we fooled with last night. Obviously at least on some bows the cable does rub the cam or they would not have installed a "rub guard". The bow _did _shoot very quiet. Unlike many bows today the first inch or so of draw from brace was very light and spongy. Just like most everything some folks will like this while others won't. I have a real short draw and wonder if the first inch of draw on a bow at my draw length with a 65 or 75" let off will be "spongy" or soft. If it is then speed will take a bigger hit. 

How are the cables going to hold up at the girth hitch? I expect that wear at that point will be a none issue but folks with knowledge of how materials wear at a girth hitch will know. Since there is no yoke how the limbs behave will be very important which means the design and build quality of the limbs will have a lot to do with how this bow is perceived after 2 or 3 years. If many of these bows have problems over the same time period with the cable rub guard getting heavily worn and/or making much noise then the bows will take a hit. Until a bunch of these bows are in the hands of very knowledgeable bow owners we won't know for sure how these two things are going to turn out. Mathews has a huge "fan" base and excellent marketing skills so a lot of the bows will be getting heavily used fairly quickly. I hope it does NOT have any major problems!

I absolutely will not, at this point in my life, buy a bow with 85% let-off but the the "No Cam" can also be set up with 65% or 75% let off so that isn't a problem. I'm most interested in how they handle three different let-ff draw mods. How the bow performs at the shorter draws with different let off mods will be interesting. 

The only big glaring fault that I can see is the name! I think to name the bow "No Cam" is an ugly mistake.........but then again marketing is definitely not my area of expertise! The bow definitely has cams and when a new archer/buyer brags to his buddies that his bow doesn't have cams only to be laughed at he _may _not going to be a Mathews fan for long! Personally, the name and general appearance of a bow does not sway my opinion of it's performance and how it performs is all I really care about. But IF I was a big "fan" of a manufacturer I would be a bit embarrassed to call my compound bow with cams "No Cam". By the way, I hate that PSE named a bow "Bow Madness 34" as it sounds so cheesy........... I bought one and I grimace a bit whenever I say or see the name. But it shoots GREAT! I call it "BM 34" and yes I think that's better than "B** M**N*** 34!

Yep, after my short evaluation the only obvious knock I found is the silly name and like all Mathews I don't care for the grip. Time will tell.........................

"No Cam"?!?! Might as well have named it "Ernest".


----------



## Kstigall

nismomike said:


> I got an email yesterday that it had arrived and to come shoot it. First impression was that the riser shape looked like a large femur bone. It was hanging next to a Creed and the limbs looked about 1.5" to 2" inches shorter. The large holes on each end of the riser to me look odd shaped. But who cares about my opinion of its visual design. The machining on the entire bow was superb. The cams, the riser, all of it was flawless. Being a Hoyt shooter, I immediately began drooling over the lost camo finish. It really is nice and has zero reflection. If you look into the geo-grid cut outs you will occasionally see small spots of primer showing, but nothing to get bothered by. The bow only had a d-loop and QAD HDX rest on it. It balanced very well imo. Felt solid and a couple palm taps on the limb pockets revealed no vibe or buzz. The bow was set at 64# and 28" draw and 85% let off. I am a 29" draw, so my opinion of draw cycle and hump or dump is really not applicable here. It didn't have any mush in the beginning of the draw. Just a gradual linear increase in weight until about 3/8 of the way through, then leveled off for about 1/4 of the draw, then rolled down into the let off and straight into the wall. Now like I said, I'm a 29" and the bow was a 28" so it was hard to get a feel for the valley when I settled in, but to me it felt like it would smoothly roll forward out of the letoff. Not have that feeling of being pushed forward to let down. On the shot, it had no jump. Just slight quick tip back and roll forward. Very quiet and no vibe that I could discern. But I also barely touch the bow grip until it has rolled forward. I shot it with easton axis 422 gr. and fmj about 470 gr. and they sounded the same. Can't say if it held well, but it did seem like a bow I could shoot for a long session without getting fatigued. Wish I could have shot it at my draw length. The cable sleeves were not touching the cams at brace. About 1/8" gap on the top and 1/16" gap at the bottom. It did eventually start showing marks from whipping into the cam after release, but I don't think it was hitting until after the arrow left the string. Overall it is a nice bow. Riser aesthetics are not my cup of tea, but who cares about my cup of tea. We did chronograph it with the *422 grain axis. 244 fps*. That's straight out of the box tune.
> Crappy video of the shot. I only recorded the video to capture noise, but you can see after the shot the top cam comes into view for a slit second then rolls forward. Wish it had the entire bow in the shot, but again, just trying to capture the sound for a buddy who requested it.
> Mathews HTR NoCam: http://youtu.be/TN8wwSvGWBI


Does that not seem slow? That is about a 300 fps IBO rating. I'm hoping there's an error somewhere. Even 310 fps IBO rating would be slow in relation to the advertised speed. 

85% letoff on a 64 lb bow means you were holding about 10 lbs at full draw! I know I couldn't shot but so well holding 10 lbs and I know letting down would be an adventure for me. But to each their own. Going from 10 lbs to 64 lbs suddenly scares me a bit.


----------



## nismomike

Kstigall said:


> Does that not seem slow? That is about a 300 fps IBO rating. I'm hoping there's an error somewhere. Even 310 fps IBO rating would be slow in relation to the advertised speed.
> 
> 85% letoff on a 64 lb bow means you were holding about 10 lbs at full draw! I know I couldn't shot but so well holding 10 lbs and I know letting down would be an adventure for me. But to each their own. Going from 10 lbs to 64 lbs suddenly scares me a bit.


It was 63# and 247 fps. I edited it after I had posted it. I was going off memory because I couldn't check my notes in my phone until finished posting. Still about 302 ibo. No errors in original post now.


----------



## SCFox

Kstigall said:


> We fooled with a 28" 70 lb HTR model last night for a few minutes. I personally did not shoot it because I have a 25 7/8" draw and I no longer even consider shooting bows at 70 lbs that are too long for me!!
> 
> The cable guard sleeve did not rub the cam on the one we fooled with last night. Obviously at least on some bows the cable does rub the cam or they would not have installed a "rub guard". The bow _did _shoot very quiet. Unlike many bows today the first inch or so of draw from brace was very light and spongy. Just like most everything some folks will like this while others won't. I have a real short draw and wonder if the first inch of draw on a bow at my draw length with a 65 or 75" let off will be "spongy" or soft. If it is then speed will take a bigger hit.
> 
> How are the cables going to hold up at the girth hitch? I expect that wear at that point will be a none issue but folks with knowledge of how materials wear at a girth hitch will know. Since there is no yoke how the limbs behave will be very important which means the design and build quality of the limbs will have a lot to do with how this bow is perceived after 2 or 3 years. If many of these bows have problems over the same time period with the cable rub guard getting heavily worn and/or making much noise then the bows will take a hit. Until a bunch of these bows are in the hands of very knowledgeable bow owners we won't know for sure how these two things are going to turn out. Mathews has a huge "fan" base and excellent marketing skills so a lot of the bows will be getting heavily used fairly quickly. I hope it does NOT have any major problems!
> 
> I absolutely will not, at this point in my life, buy a bow with 85% let-off but the the "No Cam" can also be set up with 65% or 75% let off so that isn't a problem. I'm most interested in how they handle three different let-ff draw mods. How the bow performs at the shorter draws with different let off mods will be interesting.
> 
> The only big glaring fault that I can see is the name! I think to name the bow "No Cam" is an ugly mistake.........but then again marketing is definitely not my area of expertise! The bow definitely has cams and when a new archer/buyer brags to his buddies that his bow doesn't have cams only to be laughed at he _may _not going to be a Mathews fan for long! Personally, the name and general appearance of a bow does not sway my opinion of it's performance and how it performs is all I really care about. But IF I was a big "fan" of a manufacturer I would be a bit embarrassed to call my compound bow with cams "No Cam". By the way, I hate that PSE named a bow "Bow Madness 34" as it sounds so cheesy........... I bought one and I grimace a bit whenever I say or see the name. But it shoots GREAT! I call it "BM 34" and yes I think that's better than "B** M**N*** 34!
> 
> Yep, after my short evaluation the only obvious knock I found is the silly name and like all Mathews I don't care for the grip. Time will tell.........................
> 
> "No Cam"?!?! Might as well have named it "Ernest".


The actual name of the bow is HTR. 

SCFox


----------



## Kstigall

nismomike said:


> It was 63# and 247 fps. I edited it after I had posted it. I was going off memory because I couldn't check my notes in my phone until finished posting. Still about 302 ibo. No errors in original post now.


Still that's well below advertised. I would not even look at this bow with my nubby draw length!! 



SCFox said:


> The actual name of the bow is HTR.
> 
> SCFox



Copied and pasted straight Mathews own web site, "No Cam™ HTR".


----------



## x-hunta

Lets give you round wheels instead of cams and charge you more for it. Gotta love Mathews logic


----------



## biddz7x

Maybe "NO CAM" means not oval or no oval cam? Oviously it has to be camped in some way but they call it that because to the eye it just looks like a wheel. Just my though


----------



## biddz7x

Cammed*


----------



## SCFox

Kstigall said:


> Still that's well below advertised. I would not even look at this bow with my nubby draw length!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Copied and pasted straight Mathews own web site, "No Cam™ HTR".


Correct. No Cam is the brand, HTR is the name. Much like SoloCam is a brand and Creed is the name. 

SCFox


----------



## Chase Hatcher

Wouldn't it be considered a two cam without yokes since the strings and cable hook up to both of them?


----------



## tripleb2431

goodoleboy11 said:


> Lol yeah you're right. I haven't hunted cold days. Get real dude. Shows how you think telling somebody you don't know what their hunting experience is? I assure you they can't hear you draw unless you have a damn blade rest on the bow, or unless they know you are hunting them. Sounds to me like you either need to work on your skills or your deer have a sixth sense.


I can guarantee you my dear have a sixth sense laugh out loud they are always one step ahead of me and on those quiet days there's all kinds of things that they can hear when you draw I'm older so they might hear my bones popping that cold weather your thick clothing can make sounds too as ya draw.


----------



## goodoleboy11

tripleb2431 said:


> I can guarantee you my dear have a sixth sense laugh out loud they are always one step ahead of me and on those quiet days there's all kinds of things that they can hear when you draw I'm older so they might hear my bones popping that cold weather your thick clothing can make sounds too as ya draw.


Some deer do have crazy good senses. I have never taken a shot on one that I know is alerted or checking me out because I learned my lesson about that through the many years I've spent in the woods. Hunting clothes can be a bit noisy, but me personally my under armor outer wear is pretty much silent so it doesn't make noise if I draw.


----------



## whack n stack

When I saw the design at first glance, I was excited! 

Now, I can't get over the cable rub on the protector. I just can't accept a cam rubbing anything!!

What do most of you guys think about this??


----------



## sinko

Well I shot it and while I didn't shoot through a crono, it was plenty quick, about the average. IMHO it is certainly of the binary family and it was quiet, and shock free. I would say the draw curve was a bit different then what I expect from a Mathews, loaded quickly and rolled over in to an abrupt, but not overly deep valley (I shot the 85% mods.) I would like to see what the 75% feels like. The LONG riser was very stable and I have shoot a recurve exclusively for the last 9 months and I was shooting 10 rings at 20 yards after the first shot. All in all I liked it, and I'm planing to get one.


----------



## Fury90flier

I think you just proved false advertising. You just admitted there IS a cam.


----------



## sinko

Mr.On said:


> When I saw the design at first glance, I was excited!
> 
> Now, I can't get over the cable rub on the protector. I just can't accept a cam rubbing anything!!
> 
> What do most of you guys think about this??


The one I shot didn't rub there was about 1/8" of space between the cable rubber thing and the cam.


----------



## Jabovi

I may be wrong but lean will no be an issue on this bow since the string (which is linked to the big wheels) doesn't pass through the roller guard - the cables does but they're linked to the very (VERY) small diameter cams.
I'm pretty sure this configuration produce virtually no lean. Anyway, it will be interesting if someone with a draw board could check the amount of lean between rest and full draw.


----------



## whack n stack

sinko said:


> The one I shot didn't rub there was about 1/8" of space between the cable rubber thing and the cam.


I hear some clear too. I called my dealer friend and his rubs.

No way I can order 1 with the possibility of the cam rubbing.

2016 may bring changes, I hope


----------



## Tipsntails7

Jabovi said:


> I may be wrong but lean will no be an issue on this bow since the string (which is linked to the big wheels) doesn't pass through the roller guard - the cables does but they're linked to the very (VERY) small diameter cams.
> I'm pretty sure this configuration produce virtually no lean. Anyway, it will be interesting if someone with a draw board could check the amount of lean between rest and full draw.


I've never seen a bow string run through a cable guard. Torque on cables creates cam lean. While its an over hyped issue less lean is always better.


----------



## goodoleboy11

Mr.On said:


> When I saw the design at first glance, I was excited!
> 
> Now, I can't get over the cable rub on the protector. I just can't accept a cam rubbing anything!!
> 
> What do most of you guys think about this??


I think you should go shoot one. At first I was skeptic and didn't think I would have a hint of interest. Now I'm seriously interested. The feel of the bow and how stable and rock solid everything is and how it's almost silent is what has me hooked. The cam doesn't rub the cable. The draw cycle is ok, but better than some 15 primes and Hoyt's I shot. That's the only negative thing I can say about it if you want to call that negative.


----------



## tripleb2431

Jabovi said:


> I may be wrong but lean will no be an issue on this bow since the string (which is linked to the big wheels) doesn't pass through the roller guard - the cables does but they're linked to the very (VERY) small diameter cams.
> I'm pretty sure this configuration produce virtually no lean. Anyway, it will be interesting if someone with a draw board could check the amount of lean between rest and full draw.


If the cables are being held out the way there will always be lean and even worse with roller gaurd cause cables can't relieve some torque by moving front to back. And with this bow as it sits has no easy way to tune it out. Put some limb bolts on all 4 limbs and you might have something and get rid of the cam rubbing too.


----------



## rockyw

I wish the new camo worked better, I CAN STILL SEE IT!


----------



## tripleb2431

rockyw said:


> I wish the new camo worked better, I CAN STILL SEE IT!


Lol


----------



## BEAR FOOT

rockyw said:


> I wish the new camo worked better, I CAN STILL SEE IT!


just spit doritos all over my keyboard


----------



## 6xsteelers

Tipsntails7 said:


> I've never seen a bow string run through a cable guard. Torque on cables creates cam lean. While its an over hyped issue less lean is always better.


Every solo Cam bow made the string runs through the cable guard


----------



## whack n stack

goodoleboy11 said:


> I think you should go shoot one. At first I was skeptic and didn't think I would have a hint of interest. Now I'm seriously interested. The feel of the bow and how stable and rock solid everything is and how it's almost silent is what has me hooked. The cam doesn't rub the cable. The draw cycle is ok, but better than some 15 primes and Hoyt's I shot. That's the only negative thing I can say about it if you want to call that negative.


I know I'd like how it shoots. I've always loved Mathew's. I love all bows.

That's not the point. The rubbing would drive me crazy. My dealer's rubs. I've saw some that rub on here. It's hit or miss so far.


----------



## goodoleboy11

Mr.On said:


> I know I'd like how it shoots. I've always loved Mathew's. I love all bows.
> 
> That's not the point. The rubbing would drive me crazy. My dealer's rubs. I've saw some that rub on here. It's hit or miss so far.


I'm sure most won't rub, the one I shot didn't. If it does it still won't be a problem. That being said if I decided to get one I won't accept if it rubs.


----------



## skiisme753

Here's a good video showing how it works

http://youtu.be/oX1MUtCSWt8


----------



## tripleb2431

Will say very impressed with how quite it is i really like that feature but no easy way to dial in a bare shaft so ill pass maybe 2nd or 3rd generation of this they'll fix the problems


----------



## frog gigger

Mr.On said:


> When I saw the design at first glance, I was excited!
> 
> Now, I can't get over the cable rub on the protector. I just can't accept a cam rubbing anything!!
> 
> What do most of you guys think about this??


I agree 100%. Some rub, some don't. Why, and why not will have to be proven before I consider.


----------



## whack n stack

frog gigger said:


> I agree 100%. Some rub, some don't. Why, and why not will have to be proven before I consider.


Amen.


----------



## sittingbull

Originally Posted by nismomike 
I got an email yesterday that it had arrived and to come shoot it. First impression was that the riser shape looked like a large femur bone. It was hanging next to a Creed and the limbs looked about 1.5" to 2" inches shorter. The large holes on each end of the riser to me look odd shaped. But who cares about my opinion of its visual design. The machining on the entire bow was superb. The cams, the riser, all of it was flawless. Being a Hoyt shooter, I immediately began drooling over the lost camo finish. It really is nice and has zero reflection. If you look into the geo-grid cut outs you will occasionally see small spots of primer showing, but nothing to get bothered by. The bow only had a d-loop and QAD HDX rest on it. It balanced very well imo. Felt solid and a couple palm taps on the limb pockets revealed no vibe or buzz. The bow was set at 64# and 28" draw and 85% let off. I am a 29" draw, so my opinion of draw cycle and hump or dump is really not applicable here. It didn't have any mush in the beginning of the draw. Just a gradual linear increase in weight until about 3/8 of the way through, then leveled off for about 1/4 of the draw, then rolled down into the let off and straight into the wall. Now like I said, I'm a 29" and the bow was a 28" so it was hard to get a feel for the valley when I settled in, but to me it felt like it would smoothly roll forward out of the letoff. Not have that feeling of being pushed forward to let down. On the shot, it had no jump. Just slight quick tip back and roll forward. Very quiet and no vibe that I could discern. But I also barely touch the bow grip until it has rolled forward. I shot it with easton axis 422 gr. and fmj about 470 gr. and they sounded the same. Can't say if it held well, but it did seem like a bow I could shoot for a long session without getting fatigued. Wish I could have shot it at my draw length. The cable sleeves were not touching the cams at brace. About 1/8" gap on the top and 1/16" gap at the bottom. It did eventually start showing marks from whipping into the cam after release, but I don't think it was hitting until after the arrow left the string. Overall it is a nice bow. Riser aesthetics are not my cup of tea, but who cares about my cup of tea. We did chronograph it with the 422 grain axis. 244 fps. That's straight out of the box tune.
Crappy video of the shot. I only recorded the video to capture noise, but you can see after the shot the top cam comes into view for a slit second then rolls forward. Wish it had the entire bow in the shot, but again, just trying to capture the sound for a buddy who requested it.
Mathews HTR NoCam: http://youtu.be/TN8wwSvGWBI



Kstigall said:


> Does that not seem slow? That is about a 300 fps IBO rating. I'm hoping there's an error somewhere. Even 310 fps IBO rating would be slow in relation to the advertised speed.
> 
> 85% letoff on a 64 lb bow means you were holding about 10 lbs at full draw! I know I couldn't shot but so well holding 10 lbs and I know letting down would be an adventure for me. But to each their own. Going from 10 lbs to 64 lbs suddenly scares me a bit.



Did some numbers crunching and came up with this...

64#-28" draw - 422gr arrow = 244 fps

64 x 5gr/# = 320

102 grains over IBO [email protected] 64# = 34 fps

28" draw = 20 fps

Diff between 85% vs 75% mods = 12 fps

Diff between 65% vs 85% is unknown at this time...estimate -20 fps 

So, we have the following...

...for arrow 102 grains over IBO for 64# draw ...-34 fps 
...for 28" draw, -2" from IBO 30" standard........-20 fps
...for difference between 65% letoff and 85%....-20 fps (est)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total deductions = ......................84 fps

Add recorded chrono reading of ...244 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------
Estimated IBO for this bow = 328 fps

OR, approx. 2 fps slower than Mathews IBO of 330 fps.


----------



## nismomike

sittingbull said:


> Did some numbers crunching and came up with this...
> 
> 64#-28" draw - 422gr arrow = 244 fps
> 
> 64 x 5gr/# = 320
> 
> 102 grains over IBO [email protected] 64# = 34 fps
> 
> 28" draw = 20 fps
> 
> Diff between 85% vs 75% mods = 12 fps
> 
> Diff between 65% vs 85% is unknown at this time...estimate -20 fps
> 
> So, we have the following...
> 
> ...for arrow 102 grains over IBO for 64# draw ...-34 fps
> ...for 28" draw, -2" from IBO 30" standard........-20 fps
> ...for difference between 65% letoff and 85%....-20 fps (est)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Total deductions = ......................84 fps
> 
> Add recorded chrono reading of ...244 fps
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Estimated IBO for this bow = 328 fps
> 
> OR, approx. 2 fps slower than Mathews IBO of 330 fps.


Ah! We'll not to piss in your Cheerios, but I updated my post and it was 63# and 247 fps. When I was posting I was going off memory, but as soon as I posted it I cross referenced it with the notes I took yesterday and updated my original post to be correct. Hey, I'm an aerospace machinist, I got a lot of numbers going through my head lol. But my op is accurate and probably leads to numbers closer to ibo with your math.


----------



## Qwargmire

deadduck357 said:


> Are y'all being for real??? This thread is like reading texts from my girlfriend.


Amazing isn't it...smh.


----------



## Jabovi

frog gigger said:


> I agree 100%. Some rub, some don't. Why, and why not will have to be proven before I consider.


The cable is rubbing a bit on my Creed's cam. It doesn't prevent me to hit a tennis ball @ 60 yards two out of three times.
If the HTR is more accurate and let me hit a Ping-Pong ball @ the same distance, I'm sold.
Rubbing or not.


----------



## tripleb2431

deadduck357 said:


> Are y'all being for real??? This thread is like reading texts from my girlfriend.


I didn't know blow up dolls could text???


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Mr.On said:


> Now, I can't get over the cable rub on the protector. I just can't accept a cam rubbing anything!!
> 
> What do most of you guys think about this??


I agree.
I have already ordered a new bow, so I am not even considering the No Cams this year.
But if I hadn't decided on and ordered a bow already, I would be very hesitant about to order a No Cam because some of them clearly have the cam touching the Teflon protector.
It might not be a problem, but I would not risk it.
Then I would rather wait a few months and see how it really does with lots of people owning and shooting it.

People says that this design prevents cam lean, but what else than cam lean would lead to the cam touching the Teflon protector on some of these bows?


----------



## rolyat008

Tipsntails7 said:


> I've never seen a bow string run through a cable guard. Torque on cables creates cam lean. While its an over hyped issue less lean is always better.


I'm wondering if you could use a lh and rh cam to convert one of these to a shoot through system. Then there will be no need to worry about cam lean or rubbing. Someone needs to try this! Lol


----------



## goodoleboy11

tripleb2431 said:


> I didn't know blow up dolls could text???


Lmao!


----------



## tmorelli

Norwegian Woods said:


> I agree.
> I have already ordered a new bow, so I am not even considering the No Cams this year.
> But if I hadn't decided on and ordered a bow already, I would be very hesitant about to order a No Cam because some of them clearly have the cam touching the Teflon protector.
> It might not be a problem, but I would not risk it.
> Then I would rather wait a few months and see how it really does with lots of people owning and shooting it.
> 
> People says that this design prevents cam lean, but what else than cam lean would lead to the cam touching the Teflon protector on some of these bows?


The cams on the one I tested were very straight at brace and full draw. The rubbing is caused by having to pull the outer cable across the cam to get through the roller guard. The rubbing only occurred on the bottom cam on the one I tested and others I've spoken to in other shops. 

This cam is most similar to the old BT cams in that you have a cable track on both sides of the string track. In this manner, it is an arguable improvement over a two-track binary but cable rubbing was also one of the main reasons all those BT owners started modding for shoot through systems like this:










Cam lean is the product of many things...cable guards are one of them. But, even where side loads from cable guards don't exist, most cams have a cable track only to one side of the string track. This creates a load transition from one point between the axles to another and the cam "rocks" laterally with the load.


----------



## Nevada Smith

nismomike said:


> The cable sleeves were not touching the cams at brace. About 1/8" gap on the top and 1/16" gap at the bottom. *It did eventually start showing marks from whipping into the cam after release*, but I don't think it was hitting until after the arrow left the string.


Over time, with so much dynamic force acting upon so little area, my _perception_ is: this will become an issue. 

So why would I risk $1,100 for a bow that _potentially_ introduces its own issue while claiming to solve an issue that has not noticeably affected my shooting?


----------



## Jabovi

tmorelli said:


> Most cams have a cable track only to one side of the string track. This creates a load transition from one point between the axles to another and the cam "rocks" laterally with the load.


It doesn't seems to be the case here since each cam have a track on both side of the (big wheels) string track : each cable is hooked to one side of a cam and will wrap to the other side of the opposite cam. This design must cancel any lean caused by load transitions.


----------



## frog gigger

Jabovi said:


> The cable is rubbing a bit on my Creed's cam. It doesn't prevent me to hit a tennis ball @ 60 yards two out of three times.
> If the HTR is more accurate and let me hit a Ping-Pong ball @ the same distance, I'm sold.
> Rubbing or not.


I can engage my emergency brake a tad and still keep it between the yellow lines at 100mph. But eventually I'm gonna pay for it.


----------



## Norwegian Woods

Jabovi said:


> It doesn't seems to be the case here since each cam have a track on both side of the (big wheels) string track : each cable is hooked to one side of a cam and will wrap to the other side of the opposite cam. This design must cancel any lean caused by load transitions.


But why is the cam touching the Teflon protector on some bows and not on others?
There clearly is a need for the protector and there are clearly some differences between the bows when it comes to how far or close the protector and cams are to the other.
What is the cause for this?

I am not able to hold the bow in my hand and see for myself.
So I need to rely on the ones that have the chance to do so.


----------



## tmorelli

Jabovi said:


> It doesn't seems to be the case here since each cam have a track on both side of the (big wheels) string track : each cable is hooked to one side of a cam and will wrap to the other side of the opposite cam. This design must cancel any lean caused by load transitions.


Right, I've said that. 

The rubbing here is not caused by cam lean per se but by design which necessitates pulling the cable across the cam....the same problem with the old BT design.


----------



## sittingbull

nismomike said:


> Ah! We'll not to piss in your Cheerios, but I updated my post and it was 63# and 247 fps. When I was posting I was going off memory, but as soon as I posted it I cross referenced it with the notes I took yesterday and updated my original post to be correct. Hey, I'm an aerospace machinist, I got a lot of numbers going through my head lol. But my op is accurate and probably leads to numbers closer to ibo with your math.


I don't eat Cheerios...lol...don't whose Cheerios you are peeing in...might be your own!

Your updated post said this...

" Originally Posted by Kstigall 
Does that not seem slow? That is about a 300 fps IBO rating. I'm hoping there's an error somewhere. Even 310 fps IBO rating would be slow in relation to the advertised speed. 

85% letoff on a 64 lb bow means you were holding about 10 lbs at full draw! I know I couldn't shot but so well holding 10 lbs and I know letting down would be an adventure for me. But to each their own. Going from 10 lbs to 64 lbs suddenly scares me a bit.
It was 63# and 247 fps. I edited it after I had posted it. I was going off memory because I couldn't check my notes in my phone until finished posting. Still about 302 ibo. No errors in original post now.
........................................................................................................................................................

nismomike's "old" numbers 64#/28" draw - 422gr arrow = 244 fps


...nismomike's new numbers... 
63#/28" with 422 grain arrow= 247 fps

63 x 5gr/# = 315 grains IBO standard

422 grain (arrow used)
-315 grain (IBO stanard)
-------------------------
107 grains over IBO standard

Every 3 grains of arrow weight = 1 fps arrow speed
....107 grains/ 3 = 35.66 fps

Every 1″ of DL = 10 fps arrow speed
...28" draw = 20 fps

It has been documented that the diff between 75% & 85% mods = 12 fps

Diff between 65% vs 85% is "unknown" at this time...I estimated -20 fps 

So, we have the following...

...for arrow 107 grains over IBO for 63# draw ...-35.66 fps 
...for 28" draw, -2" from IBO 30" standard..........-20 fps
...for difference between 65% letoff and 85%.....-20 fps (est)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total deductions = ..........................................85.66 fps.....

Add recorded chrono reading of .....................247 fps.....
-------------------------------------------------------------
......................."Estimated" IBO for this bow = 332.66 fps

Keep in mind, we do not know the exact difference between 65% letoff and the 85% letoff used for this chrono test. Also, we do not know the condition of the chronograph or the setup. 

Bottom line, this bow was performing very near the IBO performance level of 330 fps, as stated by Mathews.


----------



## Chopayne

Boubou said:


> Yup, bows have risers, limbs and strings. No bow is revolutionary.
> Maybe using old technology and making it better IS revolutionary


is it better? Still slower, conflicting reports on draw cycle and such. All they did was tweak something by giving up things one place and making it better in another then as always stating it's the best now they've ever built. It's going to revolutionize bows. I still can't believe people fall for this hype year after year


----------



## nismomike

sittingbull said:


> I don't eat Cheerios...lol...don't whose Cheerios you are peeing in...might be your own!
> 
> Your updated post said this...
> 
> " Originally Posted by Kstigall
> Does that not seem slow? That is about a 300 fps IBO rating. I'm hoping there's an error somewhere. Even 310 fps IBO rating would be slow in relation to the advertised speed.
> 
> 85% letoff on a 64 lb bow means you were holding about 10 lbs at full draw! I know I couldn't shot but so well holding 10 lbs and I know letting down would be an adventure for me. But to each their own. Going from 10 lbs to 64 lbs suddenly scares me a bit.
> It was 63# and 247 fps. I edited it after I had posted it. I was going off memory because I couldn't check my notes in my phone until finished posting. Still about 302 ibo. No errors in original post now.
> ........................................................................................................................................................
> 
> nismomike's "old" numbers 64#/28" draw - 422gr arrow = 244 fps
> 
> 
> ...nismomike's new numbers...
> 63#/28" with 422 grain arrow= 247 fps
> 
> 63 x 5gr/# = 315 grains IBO standard
> 
> 422 grain (arrow used)
> -315 grain (IBO stanard)
> -------------------------
> 107 grains over IBO standard
> 
> Every 3 grains of arrow weight = 1 fps arrow speed
> ....107 grains/ 3 = 35.66 fps
> 
> Every 1″ of DL = 10 fps arrow speed
> ...28" draw = 20 fps
> 
> It has been documented that the diff between 75% & 85% mods = 12 fps
> 
> Diff between 65% vs 85% is "unknown" at this time...estimate -20 fps
> 
> So, we have the following...
> 
> ...for arrow 107 grains over IBO for 63# draw ...-35.66 fps
> ...for 28" draw, -2" from IBO 30" standard..........-20 fps
> ...for difference between 65% letoff and 85%.....-20 fps (est)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Total deductions = ..........................................85.66 fps.....
> 
> Add recorded chrono reading of .....................247 fps.....
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> .......................Estimated IBO for this bow = 332.66 "estimated" IBO for this bow.
> 
> Keep in mind, we do not know the exact difference between 65% letoff and the 85% letoff used for this chrono test. Also, we do not know the condition of the chronograph or the setup.
> 
> Bottom line, this bow was performing very near the IBO performance level of 330 fps, as stated by Mathews.


Nice job man, wasn't disagreeing that it gets close or on ibo. Just insinuating I felt bad that you took the time to do the math on numbers I had to update. Thanks for crunching the math.


----------



## biddz7x

Mr.On said:


> When I saw the design at first glance, I was excited!
> 
> Now, I can't get over the cable rub on the protector. I just can't accept a cam rubbing anything!!
> 
> What do most of you guys think about this??


My exact thought as well


----------



## sagecreek

The reason why some rud and some don't would be the 4 seperate limbs having slightly different limb deflections.


----------



## JHENS87

I went to the shop today to get my opinion on the bow before saying anything on here. I was very impressed with the htr. After a few shots the draw cycle felt good to me, and i didnt notice any vibrations at all. bow just sat in my hand. This is the 1st mathews ive been impressed with in awhile. I hope they sell a ton of them


----------



## Jabovi

frog gigger said:


> I can engage my emergency brake a tad and still keep it between the yellow lines at 100mph. But eventually I'm gonna pay for it.


LOL !
I doubt these two Teflon protections will cost you the price of your rear tires


----------



## sagecreek

Jabovi said:


> LOL !
> I doubt these two Teflon protections will cost you the price of your rear tires


Or his parking brake pads! lain:


----------



## Boubou

Knowing the crowd here, I am sure that when they offer different colours for those cable protectors, the bows will sell like hot cakes, errr, waffles


----------



## Fury90flier

tripleb2431 said:


> I didn't know blow up dolls could text???


tried to hold in a chuckle....ended up with a fart...thanks:embara:


----------



## sagecreek

Boubou said:


> Knowing the crowd here, I am sure that when they offer different colours for those cable protectors, the bows will sell like hot cakes, errr, waffles


Exactly. lain:


----------



## bmart3

My old Hoyts were wheel bows, for like years!!! Now Mathews comes out with a wheel bow and its innovation? So confused?


----------



## Garceau

bmart3 said:


> My old Hoyts were wheel bows, for like years!!! Now Mathews comes out with a wheel bow and its innovation? So confused?


Well it is about 85fps faster than those bows


----------



## bmart3

I'm trying really hard to be impressed.


----------



## bambikiller

Garceau said:


> Well it is about 85fps faster than those bows


Advertised anyway [emoji12]


----------



## Garceau

bambikiller said:


> Advertised anyway [emoji12]


Touche


----------



## www.jjtucci

Jeff Sturgis said:


> Zero valley, very quiet, no shock, extremely smooth...sighted in with a few dozen shots and ready to hit the woods with it in the morning-can't wait! Outfitted with a Black Gold sight and Trophy Taker rest, really doesn't look ugly to me  very awesome looking bow!!


Nice.


----------



## frog gigger

Jabovi said:


> LOL !
> I doubt these two Teflon protections will cost you the price of your rear tires


LOL! I believe you've missed the meat of the message.


----------



## deadduck357

tripleb2431 said:


> I didn't know blow up dolls could text???


At times deflation would be a desirable option.


----------



## Loganlee

Got to shoot this today at my local shop it draws real smooth the first 4-5 inches then there's a real bad hump for a few inches if draw then it eases into the valley extremely quiet bow hardly any vibration but wasn't impressed with the speed seemed really slow didn't get to chrono it


----------



## tripleb2431

deadduck357 said:


> At times deflation would be a desirable option.


I hear ya lol


----------



## BtwchInvasion

Yawn....


----------



## Jaliv92

Dans new ride


----------



## Khunter

How are the draw lengths running on the No Cam? Are they running 1/2" long like most Mathews bows I have shot in the past? I shoot 29.5, but I always have to shoot 29 on a Mathews. The last Mathews I shot was the HeliM so I don't know, maybe it has changed.


----------



## Danno75

I shoot Mathews and love my bow. But the new bow prices are absurd. What inflation rate are they applying?


----------



## Chopayne

Danno75 said:


> I shoot Mathews and love my bow. But the new bow prices are absurd. What inflation rate are they applying?


Consumer x stupidity


----------



## wannabe even

Yes 5/8 inch long on the one I measured today


----------



## deadduck357

jaliv92 said:


> View attachment 2078448
> 
> dans new ride


trg 8?


----------



## Jaliv92

deadduck357 said:


> trg 8?


Yep


----------



## deadduck357

Jaliv92 said:


> Yep


What ya think? Haven't even seen any of the TRG's.


----------



## catkinson

Ultimate finger bow!!!


----------



## Jaliv92

deadduck357 said:


> What ya think? Haven't even seen any of the TRG's.


I didn't either he posted this pic on facebook. He didn't go into detail about it . Just specs and a couple pics


----------



## Jabovi

frog gigger said:


> LOL! I believe you've missed the meat of the message.


So please enlighten me using simple words : I'm one of those stupid French frogs who can hardly perceive red necks' finest subtleties...


----------



## OHWoodsman

Shot the HTR today. I expected to be underwhelmed but wow what a nice bow. There is no perceptible valley yet the wall is great and it's not jumpy. It shoots like a gun. I mean it surprised me every time I released. Very quick shot cycle. This was a bare bow, wb, and qad.


----------



## Python014

Chopayne said:


> Consumer x stupidity


Haha!


----------



## AJ Langholff

I don't know if this has been said already but I guess they already have had bows that are rubbing the paint off the wheel from there designed to keep the strings from breaking... that plastic piece that goes over the string....


----------



## Mr.Wiggles

What the heck is the big hole in the riser by the limb pocket?


----------



## Kahkon

Mr.Wiggles said:


> What the heck is the big hole in the riser by the limb pocket?


Catering to the guys who use presses like a surelock. they recommend you use those holes to press in...


----------



## 13bonatter69

I hear that Elite is pissed at Levi because when Mathews released this new line up, Levi laughed so hard he ruptured his spleen and now can't draw his bow for two months. Per doctors orders of course! JK


----------



## ex-wolverine

AJ Langholff said:


> I don't know if this has been said already but I guess they already have had bows that are rubbing the paint off the wheel from there designed to keep the strings from breaking... that plastic piece that goes over the string....


Good luck getting your string builder to have those on hand 
Better not throw them away when replacing strings !!


----------



## nismomike

ex-wolverine said:


> Good luck getting your string builder to have those on hand
> Better not throw them away when replacing strings !!


I'm actually wondering if most guys will switch to heat shrink wrap. You'll get a little more clearance and can pick your color. Would be less likely to wear the cam finish and can be replaced for pennies. I know .250 shrink wrap will shrink to .0625. And I know I have fit two 12 guage strands of insulated wire side by side through .250 heat shrink wrap.


----------



## ghostgoblin22

whats the price tag on the new NO cam bow?


----------



## Khunter

ghostgoblin22 said:


> whats the price tag on the new NO cam bow?


$1,000-1,099 for the HTR No Cam


----------



## nismomike

The next question is, does that Teflon sleeve also butt up against the closed loop end and help keep it from walking or wearing the serving?


----------



## ghostgoblin22

Khunter said:


> $1,000-1,099 for the HTR No Cam


thanks


----------



## ex-wolverine

nismomike said:


> The next question is, does that Teflon sleeve also butt up against the closed loop end and help keep it from walking or wearing the serving?


I will pull one apart this weekend ... But it looks like it helps close the loop


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## nismomike

ex-wolverine said:


> I will pull one apart this weekend ... But it looks like it helps close the loop


Awesome! Do you think if it does indeed help close the loop, could it be replaced with a very small diameter nock up against the loop and covered by a section of shrink wrap the same length as the Teflon sleeve?


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## PETeach

ghostgoblin22 said:


> whats the price tag on the new NO cam bow?


The target bows have a price tag of $1799 mark!


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## PETeach

That was msrp not mark! Darn auto correct!


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## Archery55808

Cool


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## Mr.Wiggles

Those bows are why Levi left,Matt showed him the blueprints of these new models and first thing Levi said to himself is. ....Later!


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## Mr.Wiggles

I Deontae mean to make fun but they look like two hockey sticks put together,I don't think I've even seen a dumber looking design.lololollol


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## deadduck357

ghostgoblin22 said:


> whats the price tag on the new NO cam bow?


My local dealer has a $999 sticker on theirs.


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## milesthehunta

It looks cool but a little to put there for me to be the first person to buy one. Really would like to see a review with shooting, it has potential to change the game though.


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## Chopayne

So can how much does it cost to get this bow with cams?


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## nc514

Looks and feels long. I shot it an the Nitrum 30 back to back. Felt the Nitrum was pretty stiff on the early part of draw. 

I liked the no cam better of the two. The no cam draw cycle felt spungey on the front end. It was different than I've felt on any other bow.


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## mnhunter18

Shot the new htr today and was really impressed. Also I didn't think it was quite as ugly in person as it looked in pics.


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## shooter74

hoyt fo life555 said:


> WOW, htr looks ok but man the rest of the no cam line are ugly. Price will scare some also.


Not if you get 50% off the bow for a shooter program


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## Bdamn808

I got to shoot the nitrum 34 and htr today the no cam surprised me not Enuff to change my mind on the nitrum tho.... Smooth draw stiff tho no humps just straight tru the back wall.. feels nothing like the creed... solid back wall 85% let off feels more like 75% but that's not bad I don't like bows that don't feel like their not there... Very lil vibe on the shot quite for sure just felt alil slow (70 at 28).... all in all excellent bow mattews will sell a lot this year they really stepped up...


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## nhns4

shooter74 said:


> Not if you get 50% off the bow for a shooter program


So your dealer sells you a bow at below cost? You must bring so much $$$ into that shop for them then.


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## ozarksbuckslaye

Chopayne said:


> Consumer x stupidity


Lol. Maybe next year they'll add metal cables with teardrops and install cushion plungers into their burger button holes. All for the low low price of 2500 bucks. Sale ends one day before the sky falls so you best hurry it on up and get one before we all die. Lets see 'em catch us now that we've gone back in time 25 years. 

I'm just kidding. They still make some pretty nice guitars.:guitarist2:


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## Arch

899 where I'm at


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## Chopayne

ozarksbuckslaye said:


> Lol. Maybe next year they'll add metal cables with teardrops and install cushion plungers into their burger button holes. All for the low low price of 2500 bucks. Sale ends one day before the sky falls so you best hurry it on up and get one before we all die. Lets see 'em catch us now that we've gone back in time 25 years.
> 
> I'm just kidding. They still make some pretty nice guitars.:guitarist2:


They're going to make it out of wood laminate risers covered in buckskin hide and call it ground breaking


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## ex-wolverine

nismomike said:


> Awesome! Do you think if it does indeed help close the loop, could it be replaced with a very small diameter nock up against the loop and covered by a section of shrink wrap the same length as the Teflon sleeve?


Well they don't do squat but keep the cable from rubbing 

Amazing 1k+ bow and they have a 30 cent piece of garbage on the cable 

The cable attaches to the cam like it does on the other doughnuts on the monster series bows ...

The only good thing I see about the set up is you don't have to remove cams to change strings and cables 

Here is a pic you can see how the cable is looped through itself 

I shot the bow for about 1/2 hour today @70 in my draw length 28"


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## MELLY-MEL

ex-wolverine said:


> Well they don't do squat but keep the cable from rubbing
> 
> Amazing 1k+ bow and they have a 30 cent piece of garbage on the cable
> 
> The cable attaches to the cam like it does on the other doughnuts on the monster series bows ...
> 
> The only good thing I see about the set up is you don't have to remove cams to change strings and cables
> 
> Here is a pic you can see how the cable is looped through itself
> 
> I shot the bow for about 1/2 hour today @70 in my draw length 28"
> 
> View attachment 2079763
> View attachment 2079765
> View attachment 2079767


What are your thoughts on the bow, Tom?


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## Daave

There are two things that are preventing me from buying this bow: (please correct me if i'm wrong with any of these points as i'm not a bow tech)

1. Cable rubbing the cam. Why would you put a bow out that has a problem? It's a problem! NO BOWS DO THIS. WHY Design a FLAW?

2. Two draw stops. I'm no expert but this looking like a dual cam setup. There are two timing points, one on the top cam and one on the bottom cam. If they put two timing markers then one would believe that one could go out of tune from the other. I liked only having to time to the bottom cam. 

The last bow i owned that had draw stops and timing marks on both cams was a DZ-30. It was the worst bow i've ever shot in my life!

I've shot three HTR's so far at three different shops. On every one the cable was touching and wearing on the cam. Every tech said that they called mathews and they said, "it's not a problem". 

It is the quietest, nicest bow I'VE EVER SHOT. But i don't know if i can get past the timing and cam issues. I hope that we can see pictures of the cams after 1000 shots. I'd also like to see if it is still a quiet bow after 1000 shots. Lots of parts to this bow.

C4 Rant. Why, can't they make a hunting bow that is as simple and effective as a C4 is for target. It is a simple system, it works and you could shoot the damn thing in fricken Antarctica, beam yourself to Africa and clear brush with it, beat a Wildabeast to death with it and then go shoot a 300!!! It's tough. Hunting bows are supposed to be tough. NONE of the hunting bows i've seen today (Hoyt, Bowtech and Mathews) look tough. They look and feel like fragile toys, not weapons. 

I'm waiting...and my C4 is hunting...time for a beer


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## ex-wolverine

MELLY-MEL said:


> What are your thoughts on the bow, Tom?


Pm sent


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## frog gigger

ex-wolverine said:


> Pm sent


Can I get a pm too?


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## nhns4

ex-wolverine said:


> Pm sent


I think I can guess.....


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## crazy4hunting

bghunter7777 said:


> This thread is absurd common theme of bashers=have not shot one+ self esteem issues


Lol, and the fan boys calling it the newest greatest thing with out shooting one are different some how?

I'll shoot one. Love all companies new bows. It will have to wow me a lot, and who knows, it just may.


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## chaded

nhns4 said:


> I think I can guess.....


What are you guessing? Good or bad? Lol


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## tripleb2431

chaded said:


> What are you guessing? Good or bad? Lol


Well if it was good he probably would have just posted it. Not pm


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## tripleb2431

Again this system didn't real address any major problem it claims to give perfect vertical nock travel. That's never been a major problem its side to side is the elephant in the room on all bow. And with this system there's no direct way to remedy side to side. So you gave me perfect vertical nock travel big whooop. Give me direct way to dial in side to side and you might have something. Until then i can shoot a binary cam system for way less money than this and be in same boat


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## nhns4

chaded said:


> What are you guessing? Good or bad? Lol


I'd have to go with bad.


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## griffwar

frog gigger said:


> Can I get a pm too?


Hahahahahahaha


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## TheScOuT

So let me get this straight...the engineers at Mathews could not figure out how not to make the cable and cam rub so a protection device was added? 

That is almost comical...LOL! I don't care how great it feels...my current bow feels great. That is a FAIL in my book, unacceptable. I'll just skip even shooting that bow...far to many great bows on the market to mess with rinky-dink crap. 

Makes you wonder where else the engineers cut corners?


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## Jaliv92

TheScOuT said:


> So let me get this straight...the engineers at Mathews could not figure out how not to make the cable and cam rub so a protection device was added?
> 
> That is almost comical...LOL! I don't care how great it feels...my current bow feels great. That is a FAIL in my book, unacceptable. I'll just skip even shooting that bow...far to many great bows on the market to mess with rinky-dink crap.
> 
> Makes you wonder where else the engineers cut corners?


What's comical is all the clowns that defend it


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## Godfather3696

ex-wolverine said:


> Well they don't do squat but keep the cable from rubbing
> 
> Amazing 1k+ bow and they have a 30 cent piece of garbage on the cable
> 
> The cable attaches to the cam like it does on the other doughnuts on the monster series bows ...
> 
> The only good thing I see about the set up is you don't have to remove cams to change strings and cables
> 
> Here is a pic you can see how the cable is looped through itself
> 
> I shot the bow for about 1/2 hour today @70 in my draw length 28"
> 
> View attachment 2079763
> View attachment 2079765
> View attachment 2079767



Hey Tom,
How well does the bow tune up?

Is there cam lean? I dont see how there is not a ton of cam lean do to the fact the cable yoke lupe thing is only attached to one side? So how it it not creating a ton of cam lean? Am i over looking something on the bow the prevents that from creating lean?

Ill be stopping at a shop to shoot one on my my up to washington next week.
Ive always been a Mathews fan and love there bows. I always wonder off to a different brand but find my self selling it and buy another mathews. But im not sure if i want this new bow, I might just stick with my Chill x, but probably not. Im always a sucker for the new stuff.

Either going to be a new hoyt or new mathews unless somehow i can hold on to my chillx i just got 3 months ago till next years releases.


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## goodoleboy11

Jaliv92 said:


> What's comical is all the clowns that defend it


I thought you liked the bow?


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## Ryjax

goodoleboy11 said:


> I thought you liked the bow?


I thought I read that too....


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## stehawk

Jaliv92 said:


> What's comical is all the clowns that defend it



Its really comical that they gave it the name "No Cam". Jeessh, its a freeking two cam, dual cam, whatever you wanta call it but its not a no cam.


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## Jaliv92

goodoleboy11 said:


> I thought you liked the bow?


I think it's very quiet and calm after the shot . Even holds well but it's not perfect .I think it could have been better thought out.

Some guys need to go back and read past comments .Not only on this thread but others.Its comical to see how far and silly some guys will go to take up are put down a bow company. 
I've always like Hoyt.Last year when the cable slap the riser.Every time a thread starts about there crappie finish .I didn't go around on every thread taking up for them like someone kick my little sister. Lol I think we have an abundance of young kids on here .For sure some need to push away from the key board .Go out maybe make a hunt , shoot there bow and know these bow companies have big shoulders. They can take care of themselves.


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## ex-wolverine

There is a lot of space between the cable protector and the cam on the one I shot...They put it there for a reason I guess...It don't hurt anything to have it there , its just strange is all..



TheScOuT said:


> So let me get this straight...the engineers at Mathews could not figure out how not to make the cable and cam rub so a protection device was added?
> 
> That is almost comical...LOL! I don't care how great it feels...my current bow feels great. That is a FAIL in my book, unacceptable. I'll just skip even shooting that bow...far to many great bows on the market to mess with rinky-dink crap.
> 
> Makes you wonder where else the engineers cut corners?


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## goodoleboy11

Jaliv92 said:


> I think it's very quiet and calm after the shot . Even holds well but it's not perfect .I think it could have been better thought out.
> 
> Some guys need to go back and read past comments .Not only on this thread but others.Its comical to see how far and silly some guys will go to take up are put down a bow company.
> I've always like Hoyt.Last year when the cable slap the riser.Every time a thread starts about there crappie finish .I didn't go around on every thread taking up for them like someone kick my little sister. Lol I think we have an abundance of young kids on here .For sure some need to push away from the key board .Go out maybe make a hunt , shoot there bow and know these bow companies have big shoulders. They can take care of themselves.


Agreed! I'm heading out in the woods as we speak


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## Jaliv92

goodoleboy11 said:


> Agreed! I'm heading out in the woods as we speak


I'm working right now.Maybe it's me that needs to push away from the key board.lmao


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## BeastofEast

mathews blowcam. so sick of seeing all these threads for this bow.


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## ex-wolverine

In my opinion its a Binary cam , without a payout track is all...the cable is on a bearing as opposed to a peg and a track...But I'm no engineer , just a dumb ole 30+ year jet mechanic



stehawk said:


> Its really comical that they gave it the name "No Cam". Jeessh, its a freeking two cam, dual cam, whatever you wanta call it but its not a no cam.


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## Ryjax

ex-wolverine said:


> In my opinion its a Binary cam , without a payout track is all...the cable is on a bearing as opposed to a peg and a track...But I'm no engineer , just a dumb ole 30+ year jet mechanic


Actually it's funny you say that, because I kind of thought the same... It really is a lot like a binary with completely round cams... As for the guards, if your guard is touching take it off and the cables do not touch. I asked mathews why it was there if it only got in the way, and I really didn't get a straight answer. I guess time will tell


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## stehawk

ex-wolverine said:


> In my opinion its a Binary cam , without a payout track is all...the cable is on a bearing as opposed to a peg and a track...But I'm no engineer , just a dumb ole 30+ year jet mechanic


I agree with you but still can't understand the "No Cam" . It has a draw cycle, valley, let off, etc etc------just like all cams do. Hybrid, single, binary, dual, or whatever it is-----it has caming action. :wink: Marketing hype to draw attention and add some lipstick. :zip:


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## ex-wolverine

stehawk said:


> I agree with you but still can't understand the "No Cam" . It has a draw cycle, valley, let off, etc etc------just like all cams do. Hybrid, single, binary, dual, or whatever it is-----it has caming action. :wink: Marketing hype to draw attention and add some lipstick. :zip:


Oh yes I agree on the cam assessment


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## kanga

stehawk said:


> I agree with you but still can't understand the "No Cam" . It has a draw cycle, valley, let off, etc etc------just like all cams do. Hybrid, single, binary, dual, or whatever it is-----it has caming action. :wink: Marketing hype to draw attention and add some lipstick. :zip:


And it looks like it's working:wink:


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## TheScOuT

ex-wolverine said:


> There is a lot of space between the cable protector and the cam on the one I shot...They put it there for a reason I guess...It don't hurt anything to have it there , its just strange is all..


It looks like a decent bow and I am sure it will find it's niche in the market. I watched the videos and people who shoot it seem to like it (although the videos are all made by Mathews themselves and large dealers which would indicate a hidden agenda with the "OMG...I LOVE THIS BOW" responses). 

I just still can't wrap my head around the fact they would intentionally design, test, build and release a bow with an issue.


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## Daave

TheScOuT said:


> It looks like a decent bow and I am sure it will find it's niche in the market. I watched the videos and people who shoot it seem to like it (although the videos are all made by Mathews themselves and large dealers which would indicate a hidden agenda with the "OMG...I LOVE THIS BOW" responses).
> 
> I just still can't wrap my head around the fact they would intentionally design, test, build and release a bow with an issue.


X2! Has anybody actually called Mathews and asked about the cable rub?


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## Ryjax

dbow said:


> X2! Has anybody actually called Mathews and asked about the cable rub?


Yes and they said the cables will not actually rub. Even if the plastic cover does, the cables will not. I asked them why they put the plastic on the cables, but I never got a straight answer.


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## highwaynorth

ex-wolverine said:


> In my opinion its a Binary cam , without a payout track is all...the cable is on a bearing as opposed to a peg and a track...But I'm no engineer , just a dumb ole 30+ year jet mechanic


The bearing is eccentric though, right ? So it does payout cable?


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## Daave

Looks like when you order Black you get camo limbs? That would be cool if i could do that and match my C4


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## ex-wolverine

Not like a normal payout is what Im saying...still a binary cam 



highwaynorth said:


> The bearing is eccentric though, right ? So it does payout cable?


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## Hoytalpha35

http://www.dartonarchery.com/assets/round-ew-models.pdf

Look like figure 3 except with the cables on opposite sides of the string


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## Kahkon

Hoytalpha35 said:


> http://www.dartonarchery.com/assets/round-ew-models.pdf
> 
> Look like figure 3 except with the cables on opposite sides of the string


not really....The cables are not routed around the axels. The camming action comes from the AVS system. Hence the name "NO CAM". The idler wheels on top and bottom are merely string tracks. Ex Wolverine is right in my opinion. The bearing he refers to is the AVS system.


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## whip54

Why all the hate on the bow. I don't care about all the bells and whistles and if its its a dual or solo or no cam. I just cared if the bow shot good and was easy to draw and it did both with ease. Its quiet and vib free its 32 inch axel to axel is a lot better than 28-30 inch ata.yeah the weight is on the heavy but that just makes it hold steadier. If it was the perfect bow people would still find things wrong with this bow. That's human nature. If you don't like the htr buy a brand that suits you because you will b buying basically the same bow said brand put out last year. With the htr its a whole new bow really. I know that thereis a lot of tech heads on here and like to look and break down a bow to its core I like that but nothing will ever change that this bow is going to be a hit for mathews and it was really revolutionary. Mathews delivered what hoyt promiced us.


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## wscii

I'll tell you why I hate this bow ... I tried one out today at a local shop just for kicks and almost dropped the coin on the spot. Now I'm trying to give it a couple of days to think it over and instead, worrying if they will sell out before I make up my mind. They're on 8 week delivery before more will be available.

It is really quiet and really steady. Very nice to shoot. Even bare bow with no sight, stabilizer, or anything else, it just sits there in your hand after the shot. The draw is different, but very comfortable and the release is smooth. Oh and did I say quiet? Stealth-quiet.

No jumping the string with this bow.


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## blacktailslayer




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## psychobaby111

wscii said:


> I'll tell you why I hate this bow ... I tried one out today at a local shop just for kicks and almost dropped the coin on the spot. Now I'm trying to give it a couple of days to think it over and instead, worrying if they will sell out before I make up my mind. They're on 8 week delivery before more will be available.
> 
> It is really quiet and really steady. Very nice to shoot. Even bare bow with no sight, stabilizer, or anything else, it just sits there in your hand after the shot. The draw is different, but very comfortable and the release is smooth. Oh and did I say quiet? Stealth-quiet.
> 
> No jumping the string with this bow.


That's is kind of what happend to me. Went to the shop to shoot the new bows and couldn't put the htr down.


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## Scott Horn

Well I got to page 9 of this thread before I actually registered to reply. 

I am basically a new to the archery scene. Up until Aug of 2013, I hadn't owned a bow since 1995. A lot has changed since then. My wife purchased me a bowtech assassin for my first bow. I couldn't have been happier just to return to the sport again and thought my bow was pretty quiet and accurate. It was plenty accurate however it wasn't that quiet of a bow. Had a deer jump the string on me this year...grrr.

We were in our favorite sporting goods store the other day and I was browsing the bows. No intentions of trying anything out. I just like to look...Anyway my wife wanders over and asks the sales lady what was the quietest bow they had for sale. She asked if I was brand loyal to the Bowtech...nope sure not....whatcha got? She said I should try the Mathews HTR. Never heard of it till that day...Sure I'll shoot it....

Well after shooting a few arrows in the range I was sold. This thing was so smooth and QUIET. Bought one on the spot.

I know I don't have all the knowledge on all the bows being produced right now apparently like everyone else on this sight, but I do know what feels right for ME. I don't need the FASTEST bow out there. I know accuracy and quietness will kill just as deadly.


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## nocamwoman

I love my htr no problewms


----------

