# Asa semi pro shoot down



## ahcnc (Nov 2, 2009)

You make valid points....I agree with you across the board!!!!


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

I voted yes for the semi-pro shootdown also, got to have the pressure on you to know what is next, and would make excellent entertainment for spectators as well


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

I agree on all points Jerry.


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

The pro's will shoot 14's again once Levi retires.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

I agree Jerry... on all points. Maybe we can really push for this and get it done!


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## 3dshooter25 (Nov 17, 2008)

I agree too. That would be great if we could get this going. It would really be something to shoot for.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

I do not shoot in the semi pro class but I think that the shooters in the class deserve a shootdown. I think eliminating the 14's during the regular competition is a great idea as well, this would definitely help prepare the semi shooters for the pro class.

Very good suggestions, best of luck to yall in making this happen!!


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

I think it would be cool other than mixing them up with the pros. Each class likes to shoot with guys from there on class so they can compare or see how they are doing. Shooting with someone in your own class pushes you or pressures you up if they are close to your score or even beating you by a few.


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## jwshooter11 (Aug 18, 2006)

schmel_me said:


> The pro's will shoot 14's again once Levi retires.


Or goes half blind!


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

I think they should go the other way an have pros shoot 14's on the course like the semi's. There was a bunch of talk about that awhile back but then it died.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

schmel_me said:


> The pro's will shoot 14's again once Levi retires.


It's called "Levi scoring" or "weenie scoring" if the 14 is NOT in play. The Pro's that wanted the 14 quickly rescinded that decision once they realized they weren't playing the same game as Mr. Morgan. Some say Levi is at another level but that is somewhat misleading. Levi is actually playing a different game where no one else can consistently mount a reasonable amount of competition.

For them to consistently compete they need to change the scoring to 1's and 0's. Anything in the 10 ring is a 1 and everything else is a 0. The shootoff would have the same scoring as it is now.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

You know I am tired of hearing that theres not any pros out there that are as good as Levi or hes on a different level. I dont voice my opinion often but crap like this really iritates the dog out of me. Ill give Levi his Props and I am sure there are many pros that will. Hes a great archer with alot of talent. When the 14's were in play alot of the other Archers were winning also. The biggest reason the 14 is not in play is because there is no score board and when we are talking about this much money pros want to know whats going on or what they need to do in the next few shots. I could care less one way or the other about the 14's. I really dont think its gonna change the fact on whos gonna be in the shoot offs.
Jame


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Jame said:


> I think it would be cool other than mixing them up with the pros. Each class likes to shoot with guys from there on class so they can compare or see how they are doing. Shooting with someone in your own class pushes you or pressures you up if they are close to your score or even beating you by a few.


I agree with jamie on this, lets not mix up the classes, but I do like it when A gets to shoot the pro range, just to see how and where I measure up, come up quite short but enjoy it all the same. It only makes sense to have a shootoff for semi-pros, asa lost 1 shootdown so the semi pro should have that spot


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Levi is an amazing archer, but Jamie has came on here and talked with all of us reg joes, I like this, it shows he has not forgot where he came from, and Jamie put it on Levi at the classic. I dont see that many true pros on AT that will talk with you, answer pms and give advice, you the man Jamie!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Jaime B the man


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

3Dblackncamo said:


> Levi is an amazing archer, but Jamie has came on here and talked with all of us reg joes, I like this, it shows he has not forgot where he came from, and Jamie put it on Levi at the classic. I dont see that many true pros on AT that will talk with you, answer pms and give advice, you the man Jamie!


+1 from me


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3Dblackncamo said:


> Levi is an amazing archer, but Jamie has came on here and talked with all of us reg joes, I like this, it shows he has not forgot where he came from, and Jamie put it on Levi at the classic. I dont see that many true pros on AT that will talk with you, answer pms and give advice, you the man Jamie!


AS a good friend of Jamie I have warned him about this!
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Honestly thay did away with semi in shoot years ago because on sunday evening most needed to be on the road home. They did it to shorten the shoot downs.

I think the same think would be an arguement today for the late Sunday shoot downs. 
DB


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

So, will Open A get a shootdown to prepare for Semi? 

Then would Open B get a shootdown to prepare for Open A?

The shootdowns are long enough as is......As long as the semi class is an "amateur" class they should be treated like the other "amateur" classes.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

I agree with statement that it will lengthen the shootdowns, however, with the removal of the Limited Pro Class it seems like there should be an open slot for the semis. Plus the ASA could always have the semi pro shootdown last, this would allow any of the spectators who just wanted to watch the pros to leave before the semis even shoot.

The semi pro class is NOT an amateur class, just check the ASA rule book it is clearly listed under PROFESSIONAL. So they should not be treated as an "amateur" class, these guys pay a lot more to play than Open A and Open B and I think they deserve a shootdown.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

I am for the Semi Pro class being in the shoot down. If everyone is concerned about the time frame just take the top 3 in semi instead of the top 5. I was in the shoot down in Open A in Augusta in 2010 and it put a new meaning on pressure. It was an awesome experience and I hope that if I ever get my head out of my arse and shoot my bow that I will get to be in a few more shoot downs to prepare for the next level.

Not everyone will see eye to eye on this but there is an open spot with the limited pro class being gone.


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Levi Morgan is the best in the sport right now....I think he has the fear factor that helps him out a lot also......there are a lot of other pros that can and will beat him from time to time but he just doenst make mistakes which makes him that hair better than the rest....his mistakes are 10s when the other mistakes are 8s......

I like to see all the classes have a shootdown


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Since I've only shot one one ASA I have a question....does the Semis and Pros shoot at the same time on Sunday? If not the once they come off the course they could go directly to the shootdown area. The Top 5 could be announced there and the shootdown started. This way its over before the pros are finished. Of course this only works if they shoot at different times.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

Babyk said:


> Levi Morgan is the best in the sport right now....I think he has the fear factor that helps him out a lot also......there are a lot of other pros that can and will beat him from time to time but he just doenst make mistakes which makes him that hair better than the rest....his mistakes are 10s when the other mistakes are 8s......
> 
> I like to see all the classes have a shootdown


I guess you watch him shoot the ranges to know the So called facts. LOL.


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## Double B (Feb 20, 2007)

3Dblackncamo said:


> Levi is an amazing archer, but Jamie has came on here and talked with all of us reg joes, I like this, it shows he has not forgot where he came from, and Jamie put it on Levi at the classic. I dont see that many true pros on AT that will talk with you, answer pms and give advice, you the man Jamie!


I had heard of Jamie but didnt know who he was untill the GA state shoot. A good friend of mine was shooting the stake in front of us and Jaime and a couple of others were shooting with him. Before the shoot was over Jaime would shoot and then help and work with him on every shot, He come down with tp, and thought that was cool to see a pro here from another state shooting end up helping someone struggling at the time. Props to Jaime


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Double B said:


> I had heard of Jamie but didnt know who he was untill the GA state shoot. A good friend of mine was shooting the stake in front of us and Jaime and a couple of others were shooting with him. Before the shoot was over Jaime would shoot and then help and work with him on every shot, He come down with tp, and thought that was cool to see a pro here from another state shooting end up helping someone struggling at the time. Props to Jaime


Thats Jamie. Garantee he will help anyone. 
DB


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## J-Dubyah (Mar 6, 2010)

Double B said:


> I had heard of Jamie but didnt know who he was untill the GA state shoot. A good friend of mine was shooting the stake in front of us and Jaime and a couple of others were shooting with him. Before the shoot was over Jaime would shoot and then help and work with him on every shot, He come down with tp, and thought that was cool to see a pro here from another state shooting end up helping someone struggling at the time. Props to Jaime


That's awesome...he seems to be a stand up guy. It's common theme with him it seems. Great ambassador to the sport.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

J-Dubyah said:


> That's awesome...he seems to be a stand up guy. It's common theme with him it seems. Great ambassador to the sport.


Thanks for the Kind words but in all Honesty I am no different than anyone. I am just a regular Joe that enjoys helping and Hanging out with good ol people. Just becareful cause I will talk your head of for the most part. LoL. 
All I can say is not everyone is like me but dont hold it against them. We all have different personalities. One thing I wont ever forget is where my roots are.
jame


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

jamie,
gotta ask another question, you said that you are shooting GT pro 22 with 130 in the front, are you using or have you used the nock buster points, are they a gimmick or are they the real deal, when shooting against XXX ou know what happens when you hit a pin bushing, whats the deal


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

3Dblackncamo said:


> jamie,
> gotta ask another question, you said that you are shooting GT pro 22 with 130 in the front, are you using or have you used the nock buster points, are they a gimmick or are they the real deal, when shooting against XXX ou know what happens when you hit a pin bushing, whats the deal


I dont shoot them as of rt now. I have in the past with other arrows but Rod didnt have them ready for the 22's when i switched. I dont think he builds 130's rt now but I bet before long he will build some that are adjustable or some that are closer to the 130 grain mark.

I loved the Pro points. I shot the actual nock busters last year and I loved them. I never kicked worse than an 8 and most of the time I was a 10. I cant say enough about them. You wont be dissappointed. If they save you 10 pts a year they were worth every penny you spent on them.
Hope this helped,
jame


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## J-Dubyah (Mar 6, 2010)

Jame said:


> Thanks for the Kind words but in all Honesty I am no different than anyone. I am just a regular Joe that enjoys helping and Hanging out with good ol people. Just becareful cause I will talk your head of for the most part. LoL.
> All I can say is not everyone is like me but dont hold it against them. We all have different personalities. One thing I wont ever forget is where my roots are.
> jame


Your modesty is greatly appreciated, but I have benefited from people who have taken time out of their day to "coach" me or offer feedback. As much as you say that you'll talk people's head's off...we are listening and learning. Not everyone takes the time...


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

I really hope the ASA puts some thought into this, it would be a great experience for those of us looking too make it too the next level.. I definitely wish they would throw the 14 ring outta play for us next year too lol, as it ate my lunch at several shoots this year, those things are like an addiction too me for sum reason?? How do we find out what we can do too get this passed by the ASA? P.S Awesome shooting this year jame... Glad yall have too deal with that bethel kid next year lol...


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

Sentinalonfire said:


> I really hope the ASA puts some thought into this, it would be a great experience for those of us looking too make it too the next level.. I definitely wish they would throw the 14 ring outta play for us next year too lol, as it ate my lunch at several shoots this year, those things are like an addiction too me for sum reason?? How do we find out what we can do too get this passed by the ASA? P.S Awesome shooting this year jame... Glad yall have too deal with that bethel kid next year lol...


Thanks and I deal with the little punk all the time. I like slapping them TX boys around a little. LOL. No hes a gooden except for when he first wakes up. Wow hes a $#$#^$ then. He should be a handful next year as long has he listens to me and doesnt burn himself out before we even get next year started.
Jame


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

I was in the same boat this year, just spent way too much time at it and got frustrated, but next years gonna be a much better year..


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Me too matt me too... burnt to a crisp...fried, having to make myself shoot my hunting bow. I shot all the asa's the 3 NTCs and world... Im tired of traveling!


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## Leviticus (Dec 11, 2008)

Jame said:


> You know I am tired of hearing that theres not any pros out there that are as good as Levi or hes on a different level. I dont voice my opinion often but crap like this really iritates the dog out of me. Ill give Levi his Props and I am sure there are many pros that will. Hes a great archer with alot of talent. When the 14's were in play alot of the other Archers were winning also. The biggest reason the 14 is not in play is because there is no score board and when we are talking about this much money pros want to know whats going on or what they need to do in the next few shots. I could care less one way or the other about the 14's. I really dont think its gonna change the fact on whos gonna be in the shoot offs.
> Jame


Jame.....ummm im not sure why but i feel a little bit of attitude towards me...not just in this post but in the rest as well...u shot great in the shoot off in la and congrats on the win, which is ur first!...Im not trying to be cocky or arrogant but this as u say "irritates the dog outta me too"...I'm not looking for compliments just a little more credit than u are wanting to give...lol...I mean in any sport there is somebody that is the best, and in my opinion the problem with our sport is that some people aren't willing to accept that they are not that person!...Lets take golf for example tiger woods won 75% of the tournaments which made him the best...and that wasn't really contested when he was on top...and if one guy won once that definitely wouldn't have put him on the same level as tiger, and I don't think that person would be arrogant enough to claim he was! if i am no better than anyone else u explain the results and don't say the difference is time spent practicing because I would bet u probably practice more than i do, and if u dont believe me ask somebody that knows me!...When u first moved up into the class i heard all of the talk about u saying u were coming for us and u were gonna take over and this and that...well maybe that didn't happen as fast as u thought it would...yes now u've won one tournamen,t but that doesn't put u at the top, no matter how much u think it!...I have never had a problem with u but u obviously dont think I have done anything out of the ordinary, and thats fine, but when u say that i think u should be prepared to answer a few questions, like explain further and how do u figure???....Ive won 5 shooter of the years in a row and won this year by 85 points as well as 5 World Championships in my 5 years as a pro....whats it gonna take Jame to stand out to u....and for u to quit getting so upset when u hear that I have done something above the NORM!.. I am sorry that it bothers u that u haven't received the attention that u want but if u win the majority of the shoots for the next 5 years then I for dang sure am gonna give u the credit....and instead of getting upset about it I'll accept it and work harder to beat u...and I for sure wont lie to myself to try and feel better because to me, that isn't a sign of a winner...a winner gets beat sometimes but they always find a way no matter what to give themselves a chance in the end...take the loss find a way to recover and improve but don't cry when someone else gets applauded for their success!!! And as far as the 14 goes...what difference does it make with or without it...we still dont have a score board!..I am shooting against myself every tournament I go out and shoot the range as it is to the best of my ability and I end up where I end up...I dont let what other people are doing effect what I do!...If more people would worry about their own score rather than others they would be alot better off...besides the only score u a have control of is ur own so why worry about something or someone that is out of ur hands...I hope this post isn't taken the wrong way by anyone I just simply want an explanation from Jame!...And please dont act like that was giving me credit by saying that I am a talented archer because there are thousands of talented archers out there...that was a self cover...LEVI MORGAN


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## Leviticus (Dec 11, 2008)

and to add to this i grew up in this sport and listened to people talk about how great Jeff Hopkins was and how great Randy Ulmer was but guess what I was one of the ones saying that....u know why because it was true...Jeff Hopkins has always been the best 3d archer on the planet at least since I have been around...and I completely agree, why, because he has the credentials to back it up..he won more than anyone and that has never made me mad to hear that...but what it did was light a freaking fire under my butt to be the best and to win more than he did....as far as I know the guy who has the most WINS would have to be considered the best....not the guy with potential or the guy with some good finishes because while those are very respectable feats that does not put them at the same level!..there were some great archers that shot against Jeff in his prime and beat him occasionally, but guess what he won more than anyone, and thats what made him the best...not talk but results...!


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

I have none and never have had any attitudes toward you. I can guarantee you that. If you will go read some of my posts about you, you will see that I have said that you are the Tiger Woods of 3D archery and that you are a machine. Apperently you read into that post a little bit to deep and in all honesty I dont blame you one bit after all the BS that was started up right after the classic. I for one beleived things differently than the things that were said. I wont go into detail. I was tired of Hearing LEVI this and LEVI that. Thats all of heard the past month. I have said it to alot of other people that I am tired of hearing your name but I meant it in a different manor. I wont go into detail on this either because its an open forum and its no ones business. You know what I am talking about. Thats why I am tired of hearing your Name on everything. Not because you are TIger but because i am tired of all the other BS. Thats why I posted that. Next time I will go into a little more detail so I am not pissing people off.
14's in play or not. It wont change the guys who are in the shoot offs. You, Jeff, Darrin, Danny, Nathan etc were winning with them and without them. Like I said before you are gonna win your fair share. Its a given. You are talented in all venues of Archery. It just pushes the rest of us to try to beat you and the other top guys and when we do you dang right it feels good. You can honestly say you have done something but one thing I wont ever do is look down on someone for not ever winning. Thats not me.
Not one time did I ever say in my post that I was better than you. Look at the freaking shooter of the year standings. Take a look and see if I ever even made a shoot off this yr. NO. So how do you get I was saying I was better than you out of my post. Is that what you wanted to hear? 
What my post was saying was It irritates me when people say it doesnt matter if the rules change or dont change cause LEVI is still the best and he will win them all. I know as well as everyone else that you are gonna win your share of the Tournaments unless you break your arms and I figure you will still figure out a way to do it. 
Practice! Oh no. You try to practice with a full time job, 2 kids and one of my kids that wrestles, plays baseball, Football and anything else he can do. If I get to shoot 1 day a wknd I am lucky most of the time. 
Who ever said I wanted to recieve attention. Honestly this post irritates me pretty bad. Attention. You have no idea. I never posted that comment to get attention. I really think this post went way over board and was blown way out of context just like rumors that have been blown out of context. I guess I can see how you took it the wrong way but not one time did I ever say any immature things. I HAVE NEVER POSTED ANYTHING BAD ABOUT YOU and NEVER WILL. Thats not my character. 
Im not gonna lie to you. I am sure I did say I was coming after the you. Hell who isnt but I never meant it in a disrespectful way. Hell I am coming after everyone. That should be everyones goal in archery. 
And yes I have only won 1 time. I feel like there should be more but theres not. There are reasons but there just excuses. Yes you have won a heck of a lot more tournaments than 90% of the guys in archery but does that mean I should feel differently about you. No. You are human. You will be beat your fair share of times to but You wont ever hear me say Im glad you got beat. Thats not me. You go and read some of my posts about you and you will see but I think its bad when a person comes on here and bashes a person because they have only won 1 tournament and say that there searching for attention. Honestly I never seen that coming from you. I have never had a problem with you. Yes I said what I said on the post but never in any disrespect. I never mean to disprespect anyone. YOu just read into a little to deep. 
Regardless of how you took the post I never meant to get into a pissing match with you or anyone else on here. I opologize if I offended anyone but I wont opologize for posting that message. There was a good reason behind the post. I do think thought there was alot more proffessional way to go about this than to come on here and bash me. If you thought I was bashing you then you shouldve either pm'd me, called me etc but to come on here and say the things you said about me that sure does change my mind about you and I am sure that doesnt bother you or effect you in anyway. I opologize to everyone on this forum that had to read any of this BS JAME JAMISON


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1547476&p=1061567285#post1061567285

Here is one of the threads that talks about you. Post #12. 2nd from the top.
Jame


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

As an outsider reading this and not knowing you Jame I got the same feeling Levi did. I do however agree that when typed you do tend to lose the true meaning in your words. With that said I also have to agree with Levis post and calling you out on it. You made a statement on an open forum that was easily misinterpreted by him and others, why shouldn't he openly question and defend himself?


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

I have no problem with him defending himself. As I went back and read it I can see how it was misinterpreted but one thing is for sure I never bashed Levi one time on that post. Like I have said. I opologize for all of this. It was never to call Levi out or discredit him. 
Jame


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

No need to apologize anymore. You did that in your post him.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

Lets get this back on topic. It seems to me that the majority of people would like to see a semi pro shootdown. What is the best way to make it a reality? We have a post on the asa forum with a poll, but we also did last year and it overwhelmingly is in favor of this. What is the next step?


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## Leviticus (Dec 11, 2008)

Jame, I do care that you feel differently about me and maybe I did take ur comments the wrong way but I'm not the only one that read them, I got several phone calls about the post and people wondering why u would write that...so it's not like I reacted out of impulse...anyway I never really bashed u intentionally I simply stated the facts and asked for an explanation!...I dont think that I am the Tiger Woods of archery I used that to make a point...I dont feel that I am just way better than everyone else but I am very proud of what I have accomplished!...I hope I never become so arrogant that I feel like I am above anyone because I know that things can be taken away as fast as they are given!...I owe every thing Ive accomplished to the Good Lord...I dont know why but he has given me the ability and allowed me to reach my goals in this sport!...I wish u the best of luck I really do...I hope we are in alot of shoot downs together in the future and i'm sorry if I misinterpreted what u were saying!...Levi Morgan


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

Leviticus said:


> Jame, I do care that you feel differently about me and maybe I did take ur comments the wrong way but I'm not the only one that read them, I got several phone calls about the post and people wondering why u would write that...so it's not like I reacted out of impulse...anyway I never really bashed u intentionally I simply stated the facts and asked for an explanation!...I dont think that I am the Tiger Woods of archery I used that to make a point...I dont feel that I am just way better than everyone else but I am very proud of what I have accomplished!...I hope I never become so arrogant that I feel like I am above anyone because I know that things can be taken away as fast as they are given!...I owe every thing Ive accomplished to the Good Lord...I dont know why but he has given me the ability and allowed me to reach my goals in this sport!...I wish u the best of luck I really do...I hope we are in alot of shoot downs together in the future and i'm sorry if I misinterpreted what u were saying!...Levi Morgan


Levi, what is your insight on the topic of this thread? Do you think a semi pro shootdown would be welcomed by the rest of the archers? Overall, do you think it is a good idea? It seems it would definitely add a pressure element that I think would be great for the class.

What are your thoughts?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Leviticus said:


> Jame, I do care that you feel differently about me and maybe I did take ur comments the wrong way but I'm not the only one that read them, I got several phone calls about the post and people wondering why u would write that...so it's not like I reacted out of impulse...anyway I never really bashed u intentionally I simply stated the facts and asked for an explanation!...I dont think that I am the Tiger Woods of archery I used that to make a point...I dont feel that I am just way better than everyone else but I am very proud of what I have accomplished!...I hope I never become so arrogant that I feel like I am above anyone because I know that things can be taken away as fast as they are given!...I owe every thing Ive accomplished to the Good Lord...I dont know why but he has given me the ability and allowed me to reach my goals in this sport!...I wish u the best of luck I really do...I hope we are in alot of shoot downs together in the future and i'm sorry if I misinterpreted what u were saying!...Levi Morgan



This is exactly Levi why some dont post what they truly think! You mention rumors all the time here and facebook but when someone comes forth and has been 100% honest. You take things out of content. Let other pros/amatuers post and say exactly what they think! Never have I heard Jame Jamison bash you ever. Many of your pro peers arent in AWE of you, there just like Jame gunning for you ever week. If they read all this crap about how your the best and believed it. They would sure never beat you. I ask pros to come post here and be honest but often everyone takes everthing directly out of content. Most over time just understand and dont post here for this reason. I have seen some of your post taken out of content by members here when you were posting. Notice you stopped posting here as much as well. Jame set a goal like any pro and got there in a short amount of time. I can only imigine where he would have been had he not gave the sport up for several years when he was at his best to save his family! Posting something about a pro will get you condemn here and taken out of content by several here. I would honestly want someone to post it in an open forum and than to say it behind my back. Both you and Jame accomplshed great achievements and honestly Dean Pridgean who won more than his share in his day said it right, your only as good as your last win! 
DB


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

goofy2788 said:


> As an outsider reading this and not knowing you Jame I got the same feeling Levi did. I do however agree that when typed you do tend to lose the true meaning in your words. With that said I also have to agree with Levis post and calling you out on it. You made a statement on an open forum that was easily misinterpreted by him and others, why shouldn't he openly question and defend himself?


Jame qoute

You know I am tired of hearing that theres not any pros out there that are as good as Levi or hes on a different level. I dont voice my opinion often but crap like this really iritates the dog out of me. Ill give Levi his Props and I am sure there are many pros that will. Hes a great archer with alot of talent. When the 14's were in play alot of the other Archers were winning also. The biggest reason the 14 is not in play is because there is no score board and when we are talking about this much money pros want to know whats going on or what they need to do in the next few shots. I could care less one way or the other about the 14's. I really dont think its gonna change the fact on whos gonna be in the shoot offs.
Jame 


Im still trying to understand here where he bashed anyone? I read just like many pros have said before and said the same thing. Most the good shooters didnt ask for 14's to be removed. They realized the 14 ring was causing the pro class to lose numbers on the bottom end of scale. They were removed to increase numbers in the declining pro ranks. Thats what I was told from many!
DB


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## VeroShooter (Jul 14, 2005)

How 'bout we start a new thread to debate this? Personally I was enjoying the discussion about the semipro shootdown possibilities.

I do however, really appreciate Jame's comments on various subjects. It is great to have him on here helping out with his knowledge and the fact that he continues to post, when he doesn't have to is a great asset to AT. Hopefully he just writes this off as "oh well". There's a lot of time between now and Gainesville for this to blow over.


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## Leviticus (Dec 11, 2008)

Daniel Boone said:


> This is exactly Levi why some dont post what they truly think! You mention rumors all the time here and facebook but when someone comes forth and has been 100% honest. You take things out of content. Let other pros/amatuers post and say exactly what they think! Never have I heard Jame Jamison bash you ever. Many of your pro peers arent in AWE of you, there just like Jame gunning for you ever week. If they read all this crap about how your the best and believed it. They would sure never beat you. I ask pros to come post here and be honest but often everyone takes everthing directly out of content. Most over time just understand and dont post here for this reason. I have seen some of your post taken out of content by members here when you were posting. Notice you stopped posting here as much as well. Jame set a goal like any pro and got there in a short amount of time. I can only imigine where he would have been had he not gave the sport up for several years when he was at his best to save his family! Posting something about a pro will get you condemn here and taken out of content by several here. I would honestly want someone to post it in an open forum and than to say it behind my back. Both you and Jame accomplshed great achievements and honestly Dean Pridgean who won more than his share in his day said it right, your only as good as your last win!
> DB


WHAT?...lol....I realize that u have taken sides here but I was never trying to start an argument....hahahaha...and to be honest u have made ZERO sense!...Who is the one claiming bash here?...I simply wanted an explanation from his comment...he said to me that he was sick of hearing my name used in other conversations...but thats not what his post read...it read that he was sick of hearing that I was the best and that I was on a different level....I dont mind someone having an opinion but when they come out directly with someones name and a comment about them they should have to explain themselves...then I think there would be alot less bashing on here and maybe then some of the other pros would come on here!...Problem is alot of people can hide behind their computers and say what they want and then disappear having to explain nothing or answer to no one. You say people should get on here and post what they truly think well if I posted what I truly thought u may not feel so good about urself anymore!...I have never in any situation started a post using someones name and made any negative comment about them...any time I post it's either defending myself or asking for an explanation or trying to help someone!...thanks for ur concern on my facebook but maybe just maybe if it bothers you u should defriend me...haha....wow...I have never made a harsh comment towards anyone asking my opinion or for my help....but when my name is brought up in a controversial conversation I do have the right to ask questions....


As far as the shoot downs in the Semi Pro class goes......I say it's a good idea...but I think the semipro should have the same scoring system as the pro class during the regular tournament....The semi pro class was designed to get shooters ready for the pro class so I say give them a shoot down and let them better prepare themselves!


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

I am all for dropping 14's.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Leviticus said:


> WHAT?...lol....I realize that u have taken sides here but I was never trying to start an argument....hahahaha...and to be honest u have made ZERO sense!...Who is the one claiming bash here?...I simply wanted an explanation from his comment...he said to me that he was sick of hearing my name used in other conversations...but thats not what his post read...it read that he was sick of hearing that I was the best and that I was on a different level....I dont mind someone having an opinion but when they come out directly with someones name and a comment about them they should have to explain themselves...then I think there would be alot less bashing on here and maybe then some of the other pros would come on here!...Problem is alot of people can hide behind their computers and say what they want and then disappear having to explain nothing or answer to no one. You say people should get on here and post what they truly think well if I posted what I truly thought u may not feel so good about urself anymore!...I have never in any situation started a post using someones name and made any negative comment about them...any time I post it's either defending myself or asking for an explanation or trying to help someone!...thanks for ur concern on my facebook but maybe just maybe if it bothers you u should defriend me...haha....wow...I have never made a harsh comment towards anyone asking my opinion or for my help....but when my name is brought up in a controversial conversation I do have the right to ask questions....
> 
> 
> As far as the shoot downs in the Semi Pro class goes......I say it's a good idea...but I think the semipro should have the same scoring system as the pro class during the regular tournament....The semi pro class was designed to get shooters ready for the pro class so I say give them a shoot down and let them better prepare themselves!


Levi your not going to hurt my feelings. Post away about me! I have done nothing but been openly honest and took plenty of crap for trying to post anything about pros here. Whether it be congradulating a pro or promoting with pictures which I have done with you and other at times. I didnt take sides and once again seems to be taken out of content. Levi Im pretty easy you want me to defriend you, fine with me. Funny all the times I have defended you and pros you never had one promblem with any post I made.:wink:


Do you really think other pros arent sick of hearing your the best and on a different level?

Good luck this fall and next year on the tour! 
DB


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

82% in favor on the poll.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3rdplace said:


> 82% in favor on the poll.


The semis need to contact ASA and Mike Terrell. He can make it happen. Biggest concern I heard back when they did away with it was time the shoot downs took and folks trying get on the road earlier and catch flights out on Sundays/

Always enjoyed watching Big Jeremy Jerrett win the shoot down in Illinois in semis. 
DB


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

The poll is on the ASA website so Mike knows. Would be nice to hear more opinions over there about it.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I was unable to log in to ASA to vote......however. I would be in favor, if the 14 rings were eliminated during the regular shoot...Not in favor of shoot down if 14s are still in play during the regular shoot.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

Archers Helping Archers- not archers arguing with archers- sometimes its best not to say anything at all, lets all be men and show respect towards each other!


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## baird794 (Dec 2, 2006)

personally, i think they should only have a shoot down if there is a tie, on sunday if u r leading then they win, that's y they started useing how many 12's or 11's u got for the tie breaker. unless the have the same score and the same amount of 12's or 11's then who ever has the highest score wins. if it was me i would go back to just 10,8,5's and then we would find out who is the more consistant shooters are. just my 2 cents


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

3rdplace said:


> The poll is on the ASA website so Mike knows. Would be nice to hear more opinions over there about it.


Everyone should go vote. Thanks. I always liked to see the semis in the shoot down.
DB


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## ARCHERYXPERT (Jan 29, 2004)

I vote no shoot down. Thats for the Pros.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

IF you don't compete in semi pro or Pro, then how would it affect you nay sayers?


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> IF you don't compete in semi pro or Pro, then how would it affect you nay sayers?


Remember who sitting in the gallery is the fans. Don't forget without them there is no shoot down.
DB


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

the shootdown is for competitors seeking experience for the next level, as well as spectators who enjoy watching. Ever been in a shootdown ? It is a must for the archer who is moving up and shooting semi-pro, how else would one ever know how that feels if they have not done it


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

sorry DB,,, I disagree with you this time...


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Im for it...hell Im for it on every level.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> sorry DB,,, I disagree with you this time...


Understand! Good luck and hope it works out for the semis. 
DB


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Im sorry, but I feel that if you want to shoot as what the ""PROS"" do, then you need to step up into that class. Last year we had other classes in shoot downs, it was a nice novel idea. But, in all honesty, shoot downs have always been for the pros for a reason. It's about matching the top of the field against each other to see who can win in a match style of format.

Also, I saw where someone said that semi pro is not an amateur class. It really is an amateur class in how we perceive it to be.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

bhtr3d said:


> Im sorry, but I feel that if you want to shoot as what the ""PROS"" do, then you need to step up into that class. Last year we had other classes in shoot downs, it was a nice novel idea. But, in all honesty, shoot downs have always been for the pros for a reason. It's about matching the top of the field against each other to see who can win in a match style of format.
> 
> Also, I saw where someone said that semi pro is not an amateur class. It really is an amateur class in how we perceive it to be.


If it is perceived to be an amateur class then why in the world does the ASA rule book have it listed under professional? Or better yet why do they have to pay three times as much as Open A shooters? Until ASA rewrites the rule book this class IS considered a professional class. 

Since this class is categorized as a professional class in the ASA rulebook I think that it is qualified to be candidate for a shootdown.


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## ARCHERYXPERT (Jan 29, 2004)

HokieArcher said:


> If it is perceived to be an amateur class then why in the world does the ASA rule book have it listed under professional? Or better yet why do they have to pay three times as much as Open A shooters? Until ASA rewrites the rule book this class IS considered a professional class.
> 
> Since this class is categorized as a professional class in the ASA rulebook I think that it is qualified to be candidate for a shootdown.


Well put, Im now reconsidering my view of no shoot down for the Semi Pro's.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

HokieArcher said:


> If it is perceived to be an amateur class then why in the world does the ASA rule book have it listed under professional? Or better yet why do they have to pay three times as much as Open A shooters? Until ASA rewrites the rule book this class IS considered a professional class.
> 
> Since this class is categorized as a professional class in the ASA rulebook I think that it is qualified to be candidate for a shootdown.


Honestly for years the semis shot in the shoot downs and everyone enjoyed them shooting and cheered them on all the way. Fans loved the semi shooting and it made for some intense shoot downs. I see no reason the semis wouldnt bring excitement again.
DB


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

And again, if ya don't compete in our class, why does it matter to you?


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

J Whittington said:


> And again, if ya don't compete in our class, why does it matter to you?


I dont compete in semi but I am all for it, I dont stay for every shootdown, but I would enjoy watching these guys go at it, and again I will say it only makes perfect sense for semi to have a shootdown to prepare for the pro class!


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

3Dblackncamo said:


> I dont compete in semi but I am all for it, I dont stay for every shootdown, but I would enjoy watching these guys go at it, and again I will say it only makes perfect sense for semi to have a shootdown to prepare for the pro class!


You B correct, big pine tree man!


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

J Whittington said:


> And again, if ya don't compete in our class, why does it matter to you?


 Some of us follow ASA Semi Pro class. Have done so for years and posted pictures for years. Why does it matter if everyone in ASA gives an opionion. Most are there for the shootdowns.
DB


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## ARCHERYXPERT (Jan 29, 2004)

J Whittington said:


> And again, if ya don't compete in our class, why does it matter to you?[/QUOT
> 
> I think everyone is entitled to they're own opinion whether or not they shoot the class or not. Maybe they aspire to be in that class down the road or just think the shoot down should be for the Pro's. Who wants to see a bunch of No names shoot in a shoot down. Part of the fun of the shoot down is watching the big names go at it. It would be like watching the fourth quarter of a pre-season NFL game. If ya didnt want opinions Jerry maybe dont post a question in a open forum. Im confused by your" why does it matter to you" retorts..


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

Daniel Boone said:


> Some of us follow ASA Semi Pro class. Have done so for years and posted pictures for years. Why does it matter if everyone in ASA gives an opionion. Most are there for the shootdowns.
> DB


I think everybody's opinion does count on this because the ASA is selling the product of archery tournaments, and they are obligated to put forth what the people want. There are usually quite a few folks in the stands watching the shootdowns, and their opinion certainly should be taken into account. 

Either way, I sure hope we see this for next year.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

shootist said:


> I think everybody's opinion does count on this because the ASA is selling the product of archery tournaments, and they are obligated to put forth what the people want. There are usually quite a few folks in the stands watching the shootdowns, and their opinion certainly should be taken into account.
> 
> Either way, I sure hope we see this for next year.


Semi pro class is always a great class because often these are the next pros of the future. You usually see someone do quite well in this class and there going to get to the next level eventually. It a tough class to win or place. Enjoyed watching Justin, Jerry and others battle this year. Darrin congrats of a fine finish for shooter of the year in 6th. I look for Matt Varnes to be more compititive next year.
DB
DB


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bhtr3d said:


> Im sorry, but I feel that if you want to shoot as what the ""PROS"" do, then you need to step up into that class. Last year we had other classes in shoot downs, it was a nice novel idea. But, in all honesty, shoot downs have always been for the pros for a reason. It's about matching the top of the field against each other to see who can win in a match style of format.
> 
> Also, I saw where someone said that semi pro is not an amateur class. It really is an amateur class in how we perceive it to be.


Have to agree here. No, I did not vote as I am not a Semi or Pro, but in the ASA forum was the question or want of a Shoot Down for Senior something. I was opposed. I got it figured if I won or placed I won or placed and going to Shoot Down didn't get for me.

Pros are Pros and there is where the Spot Light is focused, their Shoot Down.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

while everyone on here has a vote/opinion if asa has a vote it will be ONLY for semis


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

As someone who has only shot in one ASA event I can say that watching the shootdown was awesome. Honestly I wouldn't care what classes you put out there. The chance to see the top guys in a class battle it out in front of a crowd and see how they handle the pressure is what makes the shoot down exciting. I'm all for the Semi's shooting it just for this reason. Heck I'd love to see them change the whole structure of the ASA...everyone shoots friday and Saturday with Sunday being an entire shoot off day for the top 5 of each class. (now there's where you might be able to sell 3D to TV)


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

goofy2788 said:


> As someone who has only shot in one ASA event I can say that watching the shootdown was awesome. Honestly I wouldn't care what classes you put out there. The chance to see the top guys in a class battle it out in front of a crowd and see how they handle the pressure is what makes the shoot down exciting. I'm all for the Semi's shooting it just for this reason. Heck I'd love to see them change the whole structure of the ASA...everyone shoots friday and Saturday with Sunday being an entire shoot off day for the top 5 of each class. (now there's where you might be able to sell 3D to TV)


Yep. I like it.


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## x-cutter (May 20, 2003)

Im all for the Semi Pro's getting a shootdown. The Limited Pro is gone for due cause, finger shooting is a small percentage of our sport today. It is good to see archery consolidated by ability not equipment. 

On the subject of 14's, Levi didn't kill it. Old school mentality and nostalgia killed it. Mainly Senior Pro and Womens Pro shooters who hardly ever shot at it anyway. Im all for it. It makes a shooter shoot the course and it makes the guy who has the lead have to still play somewhat agressive or he can be overtaken. It creates the crash and burn for the top shooters. If you dont have that, the same shooters will always win and the most consistent performers """Levi""", will always be in the mix. He just has a more consistant game with less highs and lows. You cant fault him for that. He's one of the best shots Ive ever seen in 28 yrs and the big thing most people overlook is his mental game. He never lost as a kid. What do you think that would do for your self esteem? It's the number one reason Semi-Pro's dont make the transition or some Pro's never get to the shootoff. It's about believing in yourself.
The game was perfect with 14's. But until the people running the games in the sport of archery do what is fundamentally right for the sport without being influenced by the people already shooting the sport it will never change. There is no one can say the game was not more exciting to shoot and watch with the 14's. Just compare the differences between the women's pro shootoff and the mens pro. It's completely different because the Men's Pro shooters have to consider the 14 and what it can do to their position at targets inside of 38 yards, especially. The Women typically shoot at tens and tweleves and whatever happens happens. There are a few exception of course, so dont beat me up girls. I'm just trying to illustrate a point. Levi has helped the sport, not hurt it. It makes us all work that much harder. Sadly only the hungriest will eat though


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

If ASA set the ranges further, the 14 would be a non-issue. Unfortunately, it seems to me they are making it more of a spot shoot. That might be the intention, and it might not, but it is quickly becoming that way. Now, on the semi pro ranges, you can expect around 25-30% of the shots to be under 32 yards. What that does is takes away from the yardage judging, and makes it more of a spot shoot situation. Most classes at the Classic this year had winners shooting around 30 up. On our range, we had 2 targets under 20 yards! If you are the last shooter, you might not even get the chance for a 14. Another big issue with the 14 to me is its location. It would be a poor shot on a live animal. Why should the highest scoring ring be in such a terrible location? And before people say "well, it is target shooting, not hunting", then why do we even shoot animal targets to begin with?

Maybe the 14 phenomenon will catch on with the Vegas face? Maybe they will put a thumbtack size ring in the outside of the 8 ring and make it worth 12 points?


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## x-cutter (May 20, 2003)

The question to ask yurself is this. Is the sport growing or becoming stagnant? Is the Senior Pro class getting larger than the Pro class? Why? We can stick our heads in the sand all we want but unless we come up with a solutiojn it will continue in the direction it has been going, nowhere. 
If you are going to have the 14 then there need to be targets in 14 temptation range. Maybe 6 out of the 20 inside of 37 yards. Otherwise it is reallistically not in play. If there is only one or two inside that range then the leader doesnt have to include them in hios game plan. If there are 6 he will have to at the risk of being passed.
Personally I dont understand why you are so adamant about protecting "yardage judging". It keeps people out of the sport not brings more people in. If you think you need it to outjudge someone that can outshoot you then you should learn to shoot better. Anyone that makes a Pro Shootoff is still a top contender in "Spots" as you call it. The bets solution would be to mark it and extend the distances to where it is shooting skill and strategy that win tournaments, not who judges the best. As long as it is who judges best there is a whole demographic of people that cant play because they dont have access to targets. And dont be fooled into believing you can compete on the national stage without targets, its not possible. So requiring people to own a range of McKenzies to be competitive limits the amopunt of people that are going to feel compettive enough to come and play. The big problem is nostalgia, in every game in archery. No one wants there game changed. They would rather ride the sibculture to the grave than change it to entice growth


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

x-cutter said:


> The question to ask yurself is this. Is the sport growing or becoming stagnant? Is the Senior Pro class getting larger than the Pro class? Why? We can stick our heads in the sand all we want but unless we come up with a solutiojn it will continue in the direction it has been going, nowhere.
> If you are going to have the 14 then there need to be targets in 14 temptation range. Maybe 6 out of the 20 inside of 37 yards. Otherwise it is reallistically not in play. If there is only one or two inside that range then the leader doesnt have to include them in hios game plan. If there are 6 he will have to at the risk of being passed.
> Personally I dont understand why you are so adamant about protecting "yardage judging". It keeps people out of the sport not brings more people in. If you think you need it to outjudge someone that can outshoot you then you should learn to shoot better. Anyone that makes a Pro Shootoff is still a top contender in "Spots" as you call it. The bets solution would be to mark it and extend the distances to where it is shooting skill and strategy that win tournaments, not who judges the best. As long as it is who judges best there is a whole demographic of people that cant play because they dont have access to targets. And dont be fooled into believing you can compete on the national stage without targets, its not possible. So requiring people to own a range of McKenzies to be competitive limits the amopunt of people that are going to feel compettive enough to come and play. The big problem is nostalgia, in every game in archery. No one wants there game changed. They would rather ride the sibculture to the grave than change it to entice growth


I will have to agree to disagree with you on the whole 14 thing. In 2009 in Open Pro (the last year 14's were in play), Levi finished 1st 4 times, 2nd twice, and 6th once. The class averaged 46.9 entries. In 2011, Levi finished 1st 3 times, 2nd once, 3rd once, 4th once and 6th once. The class averaged 45.6 shooters. So what that tells me is that whether the 14 is in play or not, Levi still wins the majority of the time, and the class is staying the same size. The growth in Senior Pro more than makes up for the 1.3 shooters lost in Open Pro.

I always thought the main difference between field and 3d was yardage judging. Taking that out of the equation would seem to make it more like field shooting. That area of archery is struggling to retain the shooters they have, let alone grow. I do not think that is the direction that 3d should take at all.

Even though we disagree on the 14's, thanks for the support on the semi pro shootoff. Also, thanks for getting on the forums and being active in discussions. Most pros choose not to do that and most forum members appreciate those who do.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

I am going to disagree with ya Tim, I think that blaming the low attendance on unknown yardage is incorrect. Look at field archery, it is all known distance and the Yankton Nationals had less than 100 shooters this year!! You can also look at the attendance in the Known 50 class, it never had more than 19 shooters this year. Bottom line is the best in 3D unknown yardage are still going to be some of the best spot shooters, the poor spot shooters who can judge still won't win because they are not going to be able to hit what they are aiming at. 

As for the 14 dilemma I like the set up ASA has in place for the Pro's right now. The best/most consistent 3D shooters are going to make the shootdown (like they should) and then they bring the 14 into play to make it interesting for the crowds. Seems like the perfect scenario to me.

I think we all need to look into the mirror when we are looking for something to blame for poor attendance. Just look at this thread we have seen some really childish things said by the "Pros" who are supposed to be representing 3D archery. Now I am not going to blame it all on the Pros but a lot of us amateurs (including me) also need to start having fun, bringing friends, and quit the BS whining that has become a normal part of most 3D archery tournaments. I don't know how long it has been since I have been to a 3D tournament and haven't heard someone complain about that the course was to hard, the course was to easy, that so and so was/is cheating, or we don't make enough money. If people want 3D archery to grow the shooters themselves are going to have to grow up and that STARTS at the top with the "Pros."

Now lets get back on topic and get these Semi Pro guys a shootdown!!


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

HokieArcher said:


> If it is perceived to be an amateur class then why in the world does the ASA rule book have it listed under professional? Or better yet why do they have to pay three times as much as Open A shooters? Until ASA rewrites the rule book this class IS considered a professional class.
> 
> Since this class is categorized as a professional class in the ASA rulebook I think that it is qualified to be candidate for a shootdown.


do they pay the pro fee?
Why is the Open A fee more than the Open C fee?

Is there currently a shootdown for the semi-pro class?

It is an amateur class.


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## shootist (Aug 28, 2003)

reylamb said:


> do they pay the pro fee?
> Why is the Open A fee more than the Open C fee?
> 
> Is there currently a shootdown for the semi-pro class?
> ...


Below is taken directly from the ASA rule book.

_A. PROFESSIONAL - Open Pros may roll back to Semi-Pro if they earned less than $500.00 in the previous two years. Competitors in all other Pro Classes that have not won any prize money in their most recent year of competition may request to be considered for the highest amateur class available for their equipment setup subject to the submission and approval of a written request to the Competition Committee. Competing in any Pro Class requires the payment of an annual ASA Pro Certification.

1. Open Pro - No restrictions on age or sex. 50 yards, 280 FPS

2. Women’s Open Pro – Open to female competitors only. 50 yards, 280 FPS

3. Senior Open Pro* - Age 50* and over, no restriction on sex. 50 yards, 280 FPS

4. Semi-Pro - No restrictions on age or sex. 50 yards, 280 FPS

Anyone who competed in the Semi-Pro class in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition, had at least two top-ten finishes, and earned over $2,000.00 in ASA Pro/Am earnings must compete in Open Pro. Anyone that won over $200.00 in Semi-Pro in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition, competed in a Pro Class within the last two years, has career earnings over $5,000.00, receives sponsor support over $2,000.00 per year in products, equipment, services or cash, or had two top ten finishes and more than $600.00 in ASA Pro/Am earnings in Open A in their most recent year of ASA Pro/Am competition is required to shoot in Semi-Pro or Pro. ASA membership is required, Pro Certification optional. 

5. Known 50 Open – No restrictions on age or sex. Known distance only. 50 yards, 280 FPS

Anyone required to compete in semi-pro or above must compete in the 50 yard class. ASA membership is required, Pro Certification optional. _

According to ASA it is a *pro* class.


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

Show ASA it will make em $$$ and it will happen.Until then I think your wasting your breathe.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

reylamb said:


> do they pay the pro fee?
> Why is the Open A fee more than the Open C fee?
> 
> Is there currently a shootdown for the semi-pro class?
> ...


I guess that I am one of those guys that reads the ASA rule book and believe what it says, instead of speculating. Until it is changed and the semi pro class is listed as an amateur class, I think that it SHOULD be regarded as a pro class.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I paid the 100 pro fee,. event though I only shoot semi...worth it to me



reylamb said:


> do they pay the pro fee?
> Why is the Open A fee more than the Open C fee?
> 
> Is there currently a shootdown for the semi-pro class?
> ...


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

SP is 125 and A is 60. Not 3 times as much.


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## HokieArcher (Mar 13, 2009)

3rdplace said:


> SP is 125 and A is 60. Not 3 times as much.


Yeah that's my bad I was thinking that A was $50 and semi was $150. Still a big jump in price compared to any of the amateur classes.


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## bustn'nocks (May 11, 2010)

100% agree.


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

ARCHERYXPERT said:


> J Whittington said:
> 
> 
> > And again, if ya don't compete in our class, why does it matter to you?[/QUOT
> ...


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

everybody knows you Matt, you are famous, I want to see you and dew in a shootdown!


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## Sentinalonfire (Apr 4, 2010)

I hope they get it done.. Will be alot of fun.. Can't wait till next year, gonna be sum GREAT shooters coming up from open A aswell..


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

Sentinalonfire said:


> ARCHERYXPERT said:
> 
> 
> > easy how you say a bunch of no-names.. Its not very appreciated.. Those no-names are the future of the pro class..
> ...


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Jame said:


> Sentinalonfire said:
> 
> 
> > I dont think it was meant that way. I really beleive hes saying most people want to see the Guys who are at the top of the pro class like Levi, Jeff, McCarthy, Gomez, Brooks etc or the guys that people see on tv. Most of the time thats the only time people get to see them shoot.
> ...


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I apologize for my BS post that stirred up Jame. I meant no disrespect but rather I was trying to stir up enthusiasm for professional archery. The fact is Jimmie Johnson is the man in NASCAR and I'm not a NASCAR groupie or even a Jimmie Johnson fan but he's won 5 straight championships and is the "man" of NASCAR. I've never met Levi so I certainly don't intend to give the impression that I worship the ground he walks upon. Heck, if I met him I might not like him. But I can read the results of all his various archery competitions and recognize his standing in the small world of 3D. If the kid ever decides to go after the "spots" game Braden, Rodger, 'Cuz, Reo and the Freak Show will easily have another sharing their status because winning is all about what's going on between your ears.....

Back on topic.......
1. If the 14 is in play in the shoot off it should be in play on the course.
2. A Friday and Saturday format with only the shootoffs on Sunday would have LESS spectators because folks would be rolling out Sat. evening and Sunday a.m. Having the shoot off Saturday night under lights and a Friday/Sat format might work.
3. If there is a Semi-Pro shootoff maybe make it the top 3 and shoot'em off immediately after they finish their final round rather than at a certain time and drop the "fluff". It wouldn't get as much spectator play but it would be a start.
4. If Semi's or anyone for that matter needs experience shooting in front of an audience while under pressure then they should be shooting indoor spots competitively during the winter. You shoot for hours with a "shoot-off" feeling. Initially, most 3D'ers can't really handle it if they are honest with themselves but the better competitors improve with time. You'll either improve your mental game and archery skills or you'll crack.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

Babyk said:


> Jame said:
> 
> 
> > you name some top pros in this post and another post I read of yours....think your a leaving out danny evans in them names of top pros......
> ...


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

Kstigall said:


> I apologize for my BS post that stirred up Jame. I meant no disrespect but rather I was trying to stir up enthusiasm for professional archery. The fact is Jimmie Johnson is the man in NASCAR and I'm not a NASCAR groupie or even a Jimmie Johnson fan but he's won 5 straight championships and is the "man" of NASCAR. I've never met Levi so I certainly don't intend to give the impression that I worship the ground he walks upon. Heck, if I met him I might not like him. But I can read the results of all his various archery competitions and recognize his standing in the small world of 3D. If the kid ever decides to go after the "spots" game Braden, Rodger, 'Cuz, Reo and the Freak Show will easily have another sharing their status because winning is all about what's going on between your ears.....
> 
> Back on topic.......
> 1. If the 14 is in play in the shoot off it should be in play on the course.
> ...


Kistigall
No worries. I know what you mean. He is one of the best archers ever to play the 3D game. The statement I made shouldve been worded differently because people took it way out of context. I was not meaning any disrespect to you or Levi. Its all good now. One thing we dont need is archers taking stabs at each other especially on an open forum. If any of us have a problem it would be better settled in private. 
Jame


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

Jame said:


> Kistigall
> No worries. I know what you mean. He is one of the best archers ever to play the 3D game. The statement I made shouldve been worded differently because people took it way out of context. I was not meaning any disrespect to you or Levi. Its all good now. One thing we dont need is archers taking stabs at each other especially on an open forum. If any of us have a problem it would be better settled in private.
> Jame


Good Post Jame.....never good to air out problems on a open fourm......


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Just caught this..My retorts?
Oh My

Well Im going to clarify what I ment by my question. If ya dont compete in the semi-pro class, then why do you care"

I was thinking/hoping most people use common sense when they read my post. 

JUST ABOUT EVERYONE THAT I HAVE SPOKENT TO REGARDING THIS ISSUE COMPETES IN THE SEMI-PRO (few pros too) class. If this is put into play, they are the ones *who it will affect the most*. 
I do admitt I did not consider the spectators. Im sure some will have no desire to watch it. But I bet a diet coke that a lot of Open A and lower classes would want to watch. Might encourage them to move up. ( I bet some pros would watch too) It may come to a surprise to some, but not everyone stays to watch the Pro Shootdowns. Its a choice. Same for the Semi pro shootdown. a choice to stay and watch or go home

another reason for my "retort" is that I figured there will be those to complain. My logic, if it doesnt affect you, then why would you care? To the objectors, yes you have a right to your opinion. Again if your not involved, then why would you care? To me its common sense.... Maybe I am dumb.
My intent was to support my semi-pro brothers. If thats what they want, I dont want to do anything but help them achieve the goal of adding a shoot down Those boys are the future of the pro class. 

PS if you think the semi-pros are a bunch of no names. Just come on up and get you a dose of those no names. The Semi Pros Ive seen shoot are awesome archers. You'll know their names names soon enough, and on the most part. You'll be glad you did.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Jerry, I don't believe the ASA, IBO or the NFAA should be governed by just the Pro's or semi-pro's. That's a big problem the NFAA has. Where do the "SP's" come from? They are the folks that you are saying you don't care to hear from. It wouldn't effect me and I don't really care if there was or wasn't a shootdown in semi-pro or even the pro class. As a member of the ASA I put my thoughts out there as food for thought and for no other reason. Many times ideas that appear as great on the surface don't look so good under a microscope but with more input and thought it ends up being better than ever. I wouldn't ignore ideas or feedback just because a semi-pro or pro didn't provide it. At the very least the Open A and Unlimited classes should have input into the Semi-pro class changes. I'm quite sure the ASA folks look at how a change effects the entire organization and not just a single class.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Ken, if the semis had a shoot down, how would that affect the unlimited class, hunter, class, mens hunter, or really any other class? 
Not trying to be rude or disrespectful to you Ken, I honestly don't see how it could affect them. Only way that I could imagine it could would be if a semi pro shooter made the shoot down and they had traveled with a member of a non shoot down class.

Sorry Ken,I must be a dumb *****


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> Ken, if the semis had a shoot down, how would that affect the unlimited class, hunter, class, mens hunter, or really any other class?
> Not trying to be rude or disrespectful to you Ken, I honestly don't see how it could affect them. Only way that I could imagine it could would be if a semi pro shooter made the shoot down and they had traveled with a member of a non shoot down class.
> 
> Sorry Ken,I must be a dumb *****


Jerry I understand what you're trying to say but I think the mannerism in which it's being presented is the issue. People are reading what you've typed and are thinking you mean it in a rude "I don't care what you think, you're not Semi-Pro" attitude. 

Honestly people what I think Jerry is saying is if you are against it and you don't shoot semi-pro then why are you against it?

If it has zero affect on you and you oppose it, WHY??? Take this chance to express your opinion as to why you don't want it. If you say it's because it extends the shoot, noone would watch it, etc. then once again if you're not in the class why do you care?

These are questions, not statements to say your opinion doesn't matter. I myself don't shoot semi-pro, I would like to one day but still need a ton of practice to reach that level. However I feel that adding the shoot-off would not only help out those shooters in the Semi-pro class but also offer up more excitement for the fans who do stick around to watch the shoot-offs. 

If the "pro-level" (i'm not here to debate if semi is pro or amatuer) archers all competed in the high-stess/high excitement environment that the shoot down creates it would/should create a buzz among the spectators (which is us...their fellow archers). One argument I've seen presented against it is, "why would people want to watch those they don't know?" Well my response to that is if there was a reason to watch them there would be a reason to "know" them. :wink:

Irregardless of what you think or believe the shoot down is one of the more exciting things myself and my family have witnessed when it comes to 3D archery. I'm saying this as a spectator and not a competitor. If there was more shootdowns I'd spend more time watching. The more time spent watching means the easier it is to sell to sponsors, The more sponsors means increased exposure, which in turn means increased participation in our sport.


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## 3Dblackncamo (Jul 22, 2009)

usually when asa wants to decide on an issue like this they will let the class vote on it, that vote decides it. When the 14 was taken out of play thats what the pros voted for, I dont shoot semi pro but I feel that asa should let the class decide by voting, I also think that it makes perfect sense to give the semis a shootdown, how else are they going to know how to deal with this pressure at the next level. I VOTE YES for the semi pro shootdown


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Goofy your correct on your interpretation of my post. No intention, have no objective of being rude to anyone. Even short people like Kent lol.


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

goofy2788 said:


> Jerry I understand what you're trying to say but I think the mannerism in which it's being presented is the issue. People are reading what you've typed and are thinking you mean it in a rude "I don't care what you think, you're not Semi-Pro" attitude.
> 
> Honestly people what I think Jerry is saying is if you are against it and you don't shoot semi-pro then why are you against it?
> 
> ...


Great Post.
I think it should be a vote for Open A, Semi's and possibly the Pros. 
Jame


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Jame said:


> Great Post.
> I think it should be a vote for Open A, Semi's and possibly the Pros.
> Jame


Shoot down for all classes that shoot 50 yards....Heck even through in the known guys and make the shoot down be unknown. Talk about some exciting finishes there. :nod: :heh:


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## Jame (Feb 16, 2003)

IM all for it. More publicity for our sport. Thats what its gonna take to get it to grow. 

If you dont want to watch it then dont. Watch what you want and let everyone else enjoy there classes shooting off. Only problem I see is the time constraint. Get that figured out and I think we have a winner.
jame


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Jame said:


> IM all for it. More publicity for our sport. Thats what its gonna take to get it to grow.
> 
> If you dont want to watch it then dont. Watch what you want and let everyone else enjoy there classes shooting off. *Only problem I see is the time constraint.* Get that figured out and I think we have a winner.
> jame


That's where keeping a running leader board would help out. Or figure out a more efficent way of getting scores turned in and the shoot off announced. Basically you start the shoot downs within 30 min's of the groups coming off the course. Take the first group, we'll say semi-pro, and their scores are the first entered into the system and tallied. From there the announcement is made for the top 5 shooters to meet at the shoot-off area. Give them 15 minutes to arrive then the shoot off starts. If you don't make it down, your score stays the same. So now you've had a total of 45 mins from final course arrow to first shootdown arrow. While the semi's are shooting the next group is assembling and so on. They way it seems now they wait until all groups are done, then they figure out the who is eligable for each group, then have all the groups report. To me there's a lot of wasted time doing it that way.


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## mkmabe (Apr 15, 2009)

Jame said:


> Thanks and I deal with the little punk all the time. I like slapping them TX boys around a little. LOL. No hes a gooden except for when he first wakes up. Wow hes a $#$#^$ then. He should be a handful next year as long has he listens to me and doesnt burn himself out before we even get next year started.
> Jame


I won't let him get burnt out!


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