# 2010 Hoyts and Field Archery



## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

Although I see some very nice hunting bows I don't see anything that would make me want to buy a new field bow this year. They dropped the two best field bows in the line for short draw archers with the elimination of the Pro Elite and the 737. Sure glad I have one of each. Really don't see how the specs on the Contender and Contender Elite are an improvement on the UE or PE. You make the call whether the new limb pockets are an improvement over the 2009 models or if it is just a cheaper pocket to produce. One thing is for sure, I made the right call in ordering my 2009 Pro Elite a couple of months ago.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Also Gone*

With the passing of the UE, PE, and 737 they also eliminated the Avenger Plus which was one of the few target quality bows in the lineup suitable for women with 22 1/2 -24 inch draw lengths which includes most women between 5 ft and 5 ft 4" in height. Thank goodness there is a used market because there are a bunch of people that are not going to be forced into shooting parallel and beyond parallel limb bows. The sad thing is the Avenger Plus was so new to the market that not very many will make it to the used bow supply chain. We certainly won't turn loose of the one we bought last year.
Jbird


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## avid3d (Jun 23, 2002)

i totally agree jay...... i'll be sticking with my vantage pro since i don't see anything new being offered that would help me that much.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

I like the looks of the Contender. It will be the hot seller. I just wish that there was a dealer close to me that I could shoot one.


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## avid3d (Jun 23, 2002)

matt, i'll find out when gary's going to be here and let you know. i'm sure he'll have one.


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## USNarcher (Oct 12, 2002)

avid3d said:


> matt, i'll find out when gary's going to be here and let you know. i'm sure he'll have one.


Yeah let me know because me and him have some unfinished business that we need to talk about. :wink:


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## outback jack (Aug 12, 2006)

Yea I'm not really liking the looks of the contender elite either because of the brace height with the spirals. Yea I could get some back by going to 3000's but I like to hang around the 37-38" ata mark. Oh well good thing I picked up a pro elite earlier this year and didn't wait to buy the new one.:wink: I do like the orange color being a Vol fan and all.


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## avid3d (Jun 23, 2002)

USNarcher said:


> Yeah let me know because me and him have some unfinished business that we need to talk about. :wink:


umm ..... just remember, he used to box for a living.......


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Jbird said:


> With the passing of the UE, PE, and 737 they also eliminated the Avenger Plus which was one of the few target quality bows in the lineup suitable for women with 22 1/2 -24 inch draw lengths which includes most women between 5 ft and 5 ft 4" in height. Thank goodness there is a used market because there are a bunch of people that are not going to be forced into shooting parallel and beyond parallel limb bows. The sad thing is the Avenger Plus was so new to the market that not very many will make it to the used bow supply chain. We certainly won't turn loose of the one we bought last year.
> Jbird


Yes the PE is gone...and there is nothing to replace it 

BUT I will just go to the CE with 3000s...it's longer then I want...but it will obviously work 

As for your complaint about the Avenger....if she already has one do ya really need to replace it :wink: 

But you may want to actually look at the bows they have to offer now....there is an Alpha Max style riser bow with the EXACT same specs....well it's a 1/2" shorter and rated around 2fps slower....but it's fatser since the speed is done at 29" instead of 30". :doh:


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*True*

She already has the Avenger Plus and won't be needing another. She also will have a "new" V-Tec with Cam.5 Plus cams to her specs as soon as I can get the riser powder coated to suit her. So yes, she's all set for bows. What I am lamenting is the fact that choices for true target bows for women is dwindling in the Hoyt line and we have quite a few friends we would like to draw into the sport when we get home. Seems like to get the best field bows we will have to scrounge the used market and piece meal our rigs together from UTs, PTs, UEs, PEs, V-Tecs, AV+s, and some of the other old greats that we can find. I don't like parallel limb bows, 32" bows, and low brace height bows, period! I guess I just don't get it. The bow companies think they have to keep changing bows and dropping bows to keep people buying but I don't understand why they don't keep the PE. Very popular bow, completely different market, the tooling is already paid for and nothing more is required in R&D. I guarantee you that if they kept it in the lineup that a lot of people would buy it over anything they have come up with for 2010. Offer it in Crimson Red and Cobalt Blue only and you cut down on the stocking requirements. Oh well I could go on forever but crying over spilled milk won't get us the PE back unless a LOT of people started writing and calling their marketing department. The PE is a lot faster than the specs say and appeals to a wide range of people short to tall including a bunch of female and male Hoyt Pros. 

Jbird


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

I am glad I got my 737 also, nice bow.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Ok Jay....I hear ya I truly do. But at this point all your really doing is *****ing about stuff that doesn't need to be complained about. 

Other then the PE being gone, everything else has a replacement......

The Vixen replaced the Avenger....the UE and 737 pretty much have the same specs as the new Contender...yes with spirals and 2000s it has a low bh. But guess what....so did the UT and UE :wink:

Yes there are lots of people that like the Pro series....and I am surprised not to see say a VE with shorter limbs to give that series a 38" bow. But fact of the matter is I saw WAY more people shooting Ultras, and Vantages then I did Pros this year.....that's indoors, field and FITA. I would bet that those two bows out sold the Pro 10-1. 

After being in production for 9 years....the Ultra and Pro were bound to be leaving.....I think there are plenty out there in good shape if someone wants one.....

I know where a pretty blue one is :wink:


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

:thumbs_do


Brown Hornet said:


> The Vixen replaced the Avenger:


Your missing his point. He said there is no more "NON PARALEL LIMB" options for ladies, and short draws. 

If you haven't spent no time behind a paralel limb bow then you can't understand this complaint. Paralel limb bows just plain out SUCK when consistent accuracy is demanded. The do not make for a stable shooting platform at longer distances.

Jen had a katera last year. she took it out sot 4 groups with it, and told me to put it on here and get rid of it. With in the hour she was up at Keystone ordering another Avenger.

You need to face it my friend Hoyt dropped the ball this year. Nothing that they brought out comes close to comparing to what it replaced. The CE has less brace than the UE did yet it is at least 5 fps slower Everything else has freakin paralel limbsukey:
I wouldn't shoot any of the new line up if you gave it to me based on geometry, and specs alone.


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## JMJ (Jul 17, 2008)

BOWGOD said:


> :thumbs_do
> 
> Your missing his point. He said there is no more "NON PARALEL LIMB" options for ladies, and short draws.
> 
> ...


I think maybe that has more to do with who is holding it ... don't you?
Granted ... I don't know Jen ... but I shot a Katera XL in '08 that, in my hands shot circles around a Pro Elite.

Try as I might, I never did get that PE to shoot for me.
I then gave it to my son, he shot it for the first half of last year's field season.
The 2nd half he shot the aforementioned Katera XL. *His average went up!*
I then gave the PE to my Father as a starter bow.

Concerning the 2010 models ....
I must admit, I was all set to order a new 38 Pro. (So much for that idea huh?)
Suppose I'll try the CE. But I'm nervous about it. The grip is why I never got that PE to shoot for me.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

BOWGOD said:


> :thumbs_do
> 
> Your missing his point. He said there is no more "NON PARALEL LIMB" options for ladies, and short draws.
> 
> ...


I forgot that the Vixen was parallel...:doh:

But the rest of your post is pretty ridiculous IMO....did they drop it on not having a Pro Elite replacement sure.....

But to say that the parallel limb bows don't aim or shoot at distance may be one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever read in the field forum. There are plenty of people shooting the Katera's at distance without issue....I love those bows...the AM is silly at distance....both of the Pro Euro events were won by someone shooting a AM.... And there are plenty of people shooting them for field and FITA. For the most part the VE is a parallel limbed bow....guess that one doesn't shoot at distance either :zip:


Aren't the Monster and XForce parallel limbed bows? Tell Chris White his bow doesn't shoot good at distance....or that Justins XForce doesn't shoot good at distance....tell DY that his AM doesn't shoot good at distance....I guess Dave Cousins shot his AM at 30m and the UE at 50, 70 and 90ms when he shot a 1390+...he must have shot that same bow on the close targets also in the field rounds he shot when he was clean on Sun and dropped 3 on Sat....with a 3 again from a miss set sight...

Aren't you the same person that just told me to shoot my new bow for 3 months to make sure it would work before I got rid of the PE....but then say you let Jen shoot 4 groups with her bow and sold it....hello Contra.... Diction is on the line :zip:

If a bow is not holding or stable in your hold....95% of the time your draw length is off. I have gone too long or short on my PE and couldn't get the dot on the target....a few twist here and there and bam....I have never got my draw length perfect the first time I set it up....even with an arrow marked....a twist can mean the world. :wink:


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Whatever*

I'm sitting here feeling like I won the lottery because I have a brand new 2009 Pro Elite with XT 2000's and Spiral X cams. I wouldn't trade it for any 2010 Hoyt in the lineup even with a $500 kicker if I couldn't get another one. Add that to the fact that I have a 2008 Red Ember 737 in perfect condition and Suzi has a 2009 Jade Green Avenger Plus that is also perfect. I think if I was queer for Orange I'd just have that PE powder coated. 

Jbird


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> I forgot that the Vixen was
> 
> Aren't you the same person that just told me to shoot my new bow for 3 months to make sure it would work before I got rid of the PE....but then say you let Jen shoot 4 groups with her bow and sold it....hello Contra.... Diction is on the line :zip:
> 
> :


No you mis-read what I wrote. I said keep the PE for at least 3 months I gave no length of time to actually shoot the new one.

In Jen's case she already owned an avenger, and it only took about 4 groups with the katera for her to realize that in her hand it did not stack up to the avenger. She shot the katera for 3d, and it was ok for close range 1 shot instances, but for long range multiple arrow groups it didn't perform to her standards.

I know I am not the only one who shares the veiw on paralel limb bows. But I will rephrase to make you happy. For me they do not make for a stable shooting platform. They are inherently top heavy.
I know that you know that not all bows are created equal, even bows with like minded specs (think Martin mystic) 
There is alot of different factors that go into why a bow shoots good for a person. If we all shot the same exact way, with the same exact stance, grip, shot execution, ect...... then there would be no need for multiple bows in the world. But we don't some bow designs shoot better for some people hence the need for so many different designs.
Hoyt used to be that company that offered a little something for everyone. No matter your shooting style or design preffrence hoyt had something that would have been suitable. But this year they do not. 

You know I am very picky about what I want in a bow. I have not been shooting the protec all these years because I don't want a new bow, but rather there have been no new bows out there that offer everything I want in design. For me 37-38 inch ATA 7.5-8 inch brace, deflexed riser, and NON paralel limbs make for the perfect bow for what I want out of it. I would gladly buy any other bow as long as it fits into that mold.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

BOWGOD said:


> No you mis-read what I wrote. I said keep the PE for at least 3 months I gave no length of time to actually shoot the new one.
> 
> In Jen's case she already owned an avenger, and it only took about 4 groups with the katera for her to realize that in her hand it did not stack up to the avenger. She shot the katera for 3d, and it was ok for close range 1 shot instances, but for long range multiple arrow groups it didn't perform to her standards.
> 
> ...


The parallel limbed bows might make a more stable shooting platform for you if you didn't stand with your toes pointing at the target when you're shooting.


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## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

How the hell do you guys justify buying these bows for $1200+? Sheesh...I'm happy shooting in the 540's with my 06 Slayer that I paid $200 for used. Would an additional $1000 make me a pro or something and magically make me shoot in the high 550's? Come on now...haven't we realized yet that with the exception of little tweaks in geometry and different names, target bows haven't changed ONE BIT in the last 6+ years??


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## JayMc (Jan 4, 2005)

CherryJu1ce said:


> How the hell do you guys justify buying these bows for $1200+? Sheesh...I'm happy shooting in the 540's with my 06 Slayer that I paid $200 for used. Would an additional $1000 make me a pro or something and magically make me shoot in the high 550's? Come on now...haven't we realized yet that with the exception of little tweaks in geometry and different names, target bows haven't changed ONE BIT in the last 6+ years??


Shhhhhh. I like to shop the classifieds


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

CherryJu1ce said:


> How the hell do you guys justify buying these bows for $1200+? Sheesh...I'm happy shooting in the 540's with my 06 Slayer that I paid $200 for used. Would an additional $1000 make me a pro or something and magically make me shoot in the high 550's? Come on now...haven't we realized yet that with the exception of little tweaks in geometry and different names, target bows haven't changed ONE BIT in the last 6+ years??


Man you picked up 10 points after Nationals :clap: :zip:

Shoot one and you will see that they have changed....I know my PE feels better stability wise to me then my old Pro Tecs.....and if you get even a used PE or UE it isn't gonna make you shoot in the high 550s....but if you don't shoot trees you will be in the high 40s :wink:

Sorry but there is a big difference in what I used to shoot and what your shooting now vs what Hoyt has out.....:wink:


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

CherryJu1ce said:


> How the hell do you guys justify buying these bows for $1200+? Sheesh...I'm happy shooting in the 540's with my 06 Slayer that I paid $200 for used. Would an additional $1000 make me a pro or something and magically make me shoot in the high 550's? Come on now...haven't we realized yet that with the exception of little tweaks in geometry and different names, target bows haven't changed ONE BIT in the last 6+ years??


So don't buy one.. You sure sound like an cranky old curmudgeon for a young guy.. :wink:

Personally, I think you are wrong and there have been some advancements. If nothing else in the grips themselves. In the years since I started shooting again, I've found several risers much more friendly in the grip than the old, fat, side plated crap from years back.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

:happy1:



I am glad i got the definition of Orange here. Thanks J :wink:

I just started shooting Hoyt's. Sure glad i started in 09, with my VE and 1000 limbs. And my UL with 3500 limbs. instead 2010 line up.

I really don't see anything of interest to me. In the 2010 line up.

Unless it would be the Contender. And [ J ] killed that with his definition of Orange. :wink:


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## UltraElite 06 (Nov 21, 2007)

Any one know the riser geometry of the Contender series bows?


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## CherryJu1ce (Feb 25, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> Man you picked up 10 points after Nationals :clap: :zip:
> 
> Shoot one and you will see that they have changed....I know my PE feels better stability wise to me then my old Pro Tecs.....and if you get even a used PE or UE it isn't gonna make you shoot in the high 550s....but if you don't shoot trees you will be in the high 40s :wink:
> 
> Sorry but there is a big difference in what I used to shoot and what your shooting now vs what Hoyt has out.....:wink:


I shot like poop at Nationals this year...truly horrid. I know you'll laugh when you read this, but stable is stable...doesn't matter what the bow is. When I shoot the Slayer, it literally just sits there and doesn't budge from the target. The only problem I really run into with the Slayer is when I make a weak shot. That being said, no bow on the market will make up for poop form. I've shot the Ultra Elite, Pro Elite (yes, both in left handed), and honestly, I really wasn't impressed because there was no difference whatsoever in my scores. 



JawsDad said:


> So don't buy one.. You sure sound like an cranky old curmudgeon for a young guy.. :wink:
> 
> Personally, I think you are wrong and there have been some advancements. If nothing else in the grips themselves. In the years since I started shooting again, I've found several risers much more friendly in the grip than the old, fat, side plated crap from years back.


The grips on the Ultra Elite and Pro Elite (and I'm guessing the Vantage and Contenter Elites) are literally exactly the same as the grip on the Scepter IV and the Mystic. When I say the same, I mean I literally can't tell the difference in the way they feel to my palm. 

Did I read somewhere on AT that the Contender Elite is going to cost $1600? For that price the bow better freakin' put the arrow into the X with no effort on my part; I should be able to sit there, drinking a beer as the bow magically floats on the line, aiming motionless at the center of the X ring.


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## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

CherryJu1ce said:


> I shot like poop at Nationals this year...truly horrid. I know you'll laugh when you read this, but stable is stable...doesn't matter what the bow is. When I shoot the Slayer, it literally just sits there and doesn't budge from the target. The only problem I really run into with the Slayer is when I make a weak shot. That being said, no bow on the market will make up for poop form. I've shot the Ultra Elite, Pro Elite (yes, both in left handed), and honestly, I really wasn't impressed because there was no difference whatsoever in my scores.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The grips are the same, or same'ish, on the UE/PE and close to the S4, Mystic, etc. But, those bows all came out in the last few years. From what I know of the earlier model Pro/Ultra elite among others, the grips were all significantly larger which is why so many people shot off the riser.

The only $1600 price I've seen/heard is for the Carbon Matrix. The local shop was supposed to be getting prices on the others this week but I have not had a chance to wander up there to see if he had them yet.


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

UltraElite 06 said:


> Any one know the riser geometry of the Contender series bows?


Looks to have about an inch to an inch and a half of reflex to me.

That is the most disapointing factor in the new lin up. They no longer offer anything with a deflexed riser. I know the later model protecs, and PE's didn't have a whole lot of deflex in the riser, but there was some, and it did make a difference.
They really need to bring something out in the 37-38 ATA with a 7.5 inch brace, and deflexed riser for us short draw target shooters. I can't deny that I have had the itch for a new bow the last few years, but quite frankly there has been nothing on the market that fit the bill for what I want in a bow. With the exception of the proelite. I bought one of those in 2007, I won't say I shot it bad, but I did not shoot it as well as I did the protec so it didn't stay long. There was just something about the new grip that I didn't care for.

That being said I just don't see the contender series sticking around for near as long as the pro and ultra series did. It will go the route of the 38 ultra, and the 737. Lets just hope that in their next attempt to replace the pro and ultra series that they go back to basics. Old geometry with new technology (or just a new name like the "SPIRAL X")


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

BOWGOD said:


> Looks to have about an inch to an inch and a half of reflex to me.
> 
> That is the most disapointing factor in the new lin up. They no longer offer anything with a deflexed riser. I know the later model protecs, and PE's didn't have a whole lot of deflex in the riser, but there was some, and it did make a difference.
> They really need to bring something out in the 37-38 ATA with a 7.5 inch brace, and deflexed riser for us short draw target shooters. I can't deny that I have had the itch for a new bow the last few years, but quite frankly there has been nothing on the market that fit the bill for what I want in a bow. With the exception of the proelite. I bought one of those in 2007, I won't say I shot it bad, but I did not shoot it as well as I did the protec so it didn't stay long. There was just something about the new grip that I didn't care for.
> ...


Why do you keep crying that the PE and UE are gone when you flat out keep saying you don't/didn't like them?


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Moparmatty said:


> Why do you keep crying that the PE and UE are gone when you flat out keep saying you don't/didn't like them?


I'm not crying about it, and I never said I didn't like them. I just said I personally shot the protec better than I did the proelite. The difference wasn't huge, but there was deffinatly a couple point difference in my scores. I kept my proelite for almost 4 months wich says alot about how good the bow was. Anyone who knows me well enough knows just about every other bow I have owned in the last 4 years has lasted less than 2 weeks. I would shoot a couple of games with it, and see it didn't stack up to the protec, and it would be gone. The fact that the PE lasted as long as it did says alot about how good of a bow it was.

My big complaint is that they no longer offer "anything" with a suitable ATA and brace height for shoort draw guys/gals. The VE and CE w/3000's are decent for someone with say a 28" draw or better, but once you get up in the 40" ATA range the string angle just isn't all that forgiving for people under a 27.5 inch draw. As much as I like the protec I saw a pretty steep difference in my scores when I tried to shoot the protec with 3000 limbs. The long ATA just wasn't suiting to my short draw. For me 37.5 to 38.5 is just about perfect. But at the same time I refuse to even shoot a bow with a sub 7" brace, and a reflexed riser.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

BOWGOD said:


> I'm not crying about it, and I never said I didn't like them. I just said I personally shot the protec better than I did the proelite. The difference wasn't huge, but there was deffinatly a couple point difference in my scores. I kept my proelite for almost 4 months wich says alot about how good the bow was. Anyone who knows me well enough knows just about every other bow I have owned in the last 4 years has lasted less than 2 weeks. I would shoot a couple of games with it, and see it didn't stack up to the protec, and it would be gone. The fact that the PE lasted as long as it did says alot about how good of a bow it was.
> 
> My big complaint is that they no longer offer "anything" with a suitable ATA and brace height for shoort draw guys/gals. The VE and CE w/3000's are decent for someone with say a 28" draw or better, but once you get up in the 40" ATA range the string angle just isn't all that forgiving for people under a 27.5 inch draw. As much as I like the protec I saw a pretty steep difference in my scores when I tried to shoot the protec with 3000 limbs. The long ATA just wasn't suiting to my short draw. For me 37.5 to 38.5 is just about perfect. But at the same time I refuse to even shoot a bow with a sub 7" brace, and a reflexed riser.


***********************

What about 1000 limbs.
I put 1000 limbs on my VE and love it. And i also have a short draw.:wink:


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Unk Bond said:


> ***********************
> 
> What about 1000 limbs.
> I put 1000 limbs on my VE and love it. And i also have a short draw.:wink:


What did the brace height come out to be. My big concerns with trying that are 1. long riser/short limbs is going to have the feel of a paralel limb bowukey:.
2. I really do not like the way a reflexed riser aims. The deflexed riser of the protec really has me spoiled with how well it holds compared to simular reflexed designs.
I bought a 737 last year because it had almost identical specs as my protec, but there was a signifigantly noticable difference in how the 737 held compared to the protec and proelites that I have owned.


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

BOWGOD said:


> What did the brace height come out to be. My big concerns with trying that are 1. long riser/short limbs is going to have the feel of a paralel limb bowukey:.
> 2. I really do not like the way a reflexed riser aims. The deflexed riser of the protec really has me spoiled with how well it holds compared to simular reflexed designs.
> I bought a 737 last year because it had almost identical specs as my protec, but there was a signifigantly noticable difference in how the 737 held compared to the protec and proelites that I have owned.


Might not be your cup of tea. But i like it. :wink:


The VE now has 1000 limbs with 82 defection . Number 1-Cam 1/2 plus

AtA = 39 7/16

Brace height = 7 5/8 inches.

Tiller = 8 3/4 inches .

Percentage ,using a 65% = 72 % now after change over

Poundage = 51.9 

Draw 25 1/2 inches. Is as low as it will go.
-------------------

I just now realized i hit 11,000 post


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## BOWGOD (Aug 11, 2004)

Unk Bond said:


> Might not be your cup of tea. But i like it. :wink:
> 
> 
> The VE now has 1000 limbs with 82 defection . Number 1-Cam 1/2 plus
> ...




I would be interested in shooting that one to see how it feels. Seems like an awful expensive project to get into not knowing if I would like it or not. But those specs are quite appealing to me. 

You going to be at LAS or in KY for indoor Nats?


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

BOWGOD said:


> I would be interested in shooting that one to see how it feels. Seems like an awful expensive project to get into not knowing if I would like it or not. But those specs are quite appealing to me.
> 
> You going to be at LAS or in KY for indoor Nats?


74 and retired .Just local. And my back yard lab. :wink:


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## sneak1413 (Aug 15, 2007)

From what i hear hoyt went back to the basic specs of the 2005 ultratec and ultra elite with the contender. It was by far their shooters favorite of all the elites. The new limbpocket is longer and a more stable limb pocket of the old triax pocket. The back pivot is still going to be a triax pocket but with the longer actual pocket it will make it more stable when poundage is backed off(if that is possible) Im shooting a VE right now and have spirals coming for it if that combo still doesn't hit my sweet spot ill have a contender elite on order.


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## 6X60 (Jan 5, 2009)

BOWGOD said:


> :thumbs_do
> 
> Your missing his point. He said there is no more "NON PARALEL LIMB" options for ladies, and short draws.
> 
> ...


You might want to take a look at what happened at the Pro field events in Europe this summer. They were dominated by parallel limb Hoyts.

Sebastien Denayer won Mullenborn shooting an AM35 while on the ladies side Gladys Willems won with a Vulcan. She's also a former FITA world record holder also with the Vulcan. Silke Hottecke was 2nd with a Vectix XL.

At Fort van Lier, Cuz won, also with an AM 35. He dropped just 4 points in two days and two of those points were because he mis-set his sight. That was just after the FITA world championships where he qualified second to Reo and his UltraElite only to go out early in the head to head matches.

Silke Hottecke and her Vectrix XL won Fort van Lier on the ladies side.


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## FoggDogg (Jul 9, 2002)

IMHO...I believe we'll see another couple bows in the 2011 target bow line-up. The Contender line is the evolution of the Ultra line of bows. I really believe we'll see an evolution of the Pro line next year at this time. A deflex design w/ the new limb pockets. It's no secret that most of the Pro Staff went back to shooting their Utlras this year after givng the new Vantage series a go. Also, look at a little history. In 2004 they completely re-designed the UltraTec, and not the ProTec. Refelx risers sell more bows than deflex. A year later in 2005, they re-did both of them. I believe that 2011 you'll see the return of a deflex target riser (both standard and Elite) and that, will be the shizzle!


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

I think the ultra elite with 3000 limbs with a 27.5 and longer draw is the best bow hoyt ever made for spots


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

FoggDogg said:


> IMHO...I believe we'll see another couple bows in the 2011 target bow line-up. The Contender line is the evolution of the Ultra line of bows. I really believe we'll see an evolution of the Pro line next year at this time. A deflex design w/ the new limb pockets. It's no secret that most of the Pro Staff went back to shooting their Utlras this year after givng the new Vantage series a go. Also, look at a little history. In 2004 they completely re-designed the UltraTec, and not the ProTec. Refelx risers sell more bows than deflex. A year later in 2005, they re-did both of them. I believe that 2011 you'll see the return of a deflex target riser (both standard and Elite) and that, will be the shizzle!




Hello
Quote = It's no secret that most of the Pro Staff went back to shooting their Utlras this year after giving the new Vantage series a go.


Reply. = That really baffles me. I can see the VP they might. But the VE.The VE i really don't compo-hen why.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Unk*

It probably comes down to "feel". Everyone knows that properly set up the VE aims like a stone. What is different is the feel of the shot. The Pro Elite just aims and feels better to me than my Vantage Elite did. I think that has to do with the deflex riser, 8" brace, and 37.25" axle to axle and how that "feels" to someone with a 26.5" draw. A lot of the Pros just like the way their UE's with XT 3000's "feel" at the shot and the resulting effect on their groups. Just because something is new doesn't gurarantee it's better, does it?

Jbird


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## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Jbird said:


> It probably comes down to "feel". Everyone knows that properly set up the VE aims like a stone. What is different is the feel of the shot. The Pro Elite just aims and feels better to me than my Vantage Elite did. I think that has to do with the deflex riser, 8" brace, and 37.25" axle to axle and how that "feels" to someone with a 26.5" draw. A lot of the Pros just like the way their UE's with XT 3000's "feel" at the shot and the resulting effect on their groups. Just because something is new doesn't gurarantee it's better, does it?
> 
> Jbird


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Quote = Just because something is new doesn't gurarantee it's better, does it?

Reply = Hit the nail right on the head. :thumbs_up


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