# What happened to field archery?



## carlosii

Back when I was much, much younger field archery was THE game and NFAA was the top dog. When I went off to college I left archery behind for many years, until I retired a few years back. That's when I found that field archery had been passed by 3D and indoor. 

What happened to drive down the popularity of the NFAA and field archery? I still shoot field when the opportunity is there, but that's few and far between.


BTW, I'm not bashing anybody or any group...just wondering.


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## pottergreg

I think 3D killed it. It's all about what the people want! I only know of 2 field events per year within a decent driving distance (i.e. no hotel expense). I can shoot 3D every weekend. It's not worth it to set up a field bow to shoot twice a year for me


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## Garceau

pottergreg said:


> I think 3D killed it. It's all about what the people want! I only know of 2 field events per year within a decent driving distance (i.e. no hotel expense). I can shoot 3D every weekend. It's not worth it to set up a field bow to shoot twice a year for me


In the years past I went to a few local field shoots with my dedicated 3D bow and sometimes with arrows as big as 26 diameter. Obviously not ideal. But because it wasnt a sanctioned shoot often times at the closer ones Id shoot 2 in a target, and 2 in another. Everyone in my group (of 3) knew and had no issues with it. Ive shot a lot of field rounds with my 3D bow and 23s and did the same, sometimes if I stacked a really tight group id just stop at 3 or whatever. Its an awesome way to check your sight tape marks for 3D.

Obviously all the above was done for training/fun and not sanctioned events. The serious guys would get a kick out of it when I shot my fat arrows and commented on how much easier than were to pull.....LOL

Funny we are talking about this - just this morning on my FB memories it popped up that I shot a 551 with my PS26s a couple years ago. In a modified field round. We have a local traveling league that stops at 65 yards for max. I shoot that often with my 3D stuff just to tune and ensure its accuracy.

I love field so much I have been doing equal amounts of it lately and have been shooting even ASA national events with my field set up and skinny arrows.


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## nestly

pottergreg said:


> I think 3D killed it. .....


I don't know how much impact 3D had on the decline in Field overall, but 3D (specifically ASA) ended my participation in Field in the 1990's. I was much better at 3D, and the lure of cash prizes really appealed to the competitor in me. The 3D thing lasted nearly a decade for me, then I gave up all competitive archery until 2015. Now I shoot more Field than ever and I'm fortunate to have like 10 clubs within 45 minutes with *at least* one full 28 target course, 7 of which are in a league, so I pretty much shoot Field every weekend, and once during the week.


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## Lazarus

What happened to field archery?

I believe it had to do with the effort it takes to keep ranges up and in shape. In the day of Fields hayday every little town in the midwest and texas, (other places too I suppose) had a field range often on city property maintained by a local club. Usually it was the same few, 3-5 people keeping the ranges up. Clubs were vibrant, they were peoples activity, yet there was still just a few people that did most of the work. Over time "volunteering" has become a foreign concept to people. Clubs died off. There was no longer a work force to keep the ranges up. The ranges died off. When people don't have ranges they don't shoot. 

At the same time shooting rubber deer became somewhat popular. Most of the entities that put on 3D shoots I suppose are businesses, not run by volunteers. A shooter is no longer saddled with the "responsibility" of volunteering to keep up a range. He or she can show up, shoot their 20 arrows and go home and forget about it. 

That's an over simplification of some of the things that killed field but I believe this theory carries weight. Fortunately in some areas ranges are being revived but progress in bringing shooters back is slow. Hopefully the tide will turn and shooter numbers will increase.


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## Larry brown

I love field and have had a range here my whole life but I just started shooting it and just found out about it. I love 3D and Indoor and Field. If I am shooting my bow I’m in good company. I shoot my superdrive 23 but am looking for a Easton shaft to be a specific field arrow. I am going to eventually set up a field bow, 3D bow and a indoor bow. Now it’s one for all, all for one!


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## V-STROM 650

I love shooting Field, it's my favorite form of Archery... but it's more difficult and demanding and takes longer to do than other forms of outdoor archery both in the shooting of it, and the building and maintenance of the ranges. People seem to have less time than ever nowadays to participate in their hobbies. I feel this is a big part of the reason for the decline. JMHO


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## j.conner

I have been involved in archery club operations for decades and have also noted the decline in field archery. Most clubs here maintain a field course and NFAA membership in order to keep their liability insurance, but rarely host paper shoots since nobody attends them. 3D tournaments are the big draw now and I believe this is because it is a faster simpler game that is not as challenging and tedious as the NFAA rounds.


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## Larry brown

Another thing I was told last night is most field don’t pay out money(around here anyway) they do trophy’s. Well I love shooting for money but that’s not why I shoot. We are going to try to keep ours up and if anyone is in south ms hit me up and we will shoot a round! 


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## huteson2us2

I also love field the most. Then range I shoot at has 28 field target maintained by the county. But we have only had one NFAA field tournament in the last few years at my range. One NFAA field tournament a year in AZ.

Every 4th Sat (now Sunday to try and get more archers), we have a free field round to teach archers how to shoot a field round. I thought it was a great idea and would bring people back to NFAA field. It has not worked. For one thing we teach 14 NFAA field and !4 FITA field. The rules are too confusing. Too many arrows shot for the 3D archers and there are too many rules to learn. The rules for the NFAA is just the opposite as the rules for FITA. The results is that I have ever seen one of the people that I taught to shoot NFAA ad FITA field has ever come back. They leave saying that the rounds are too hard and too far to shoot and they orefere 3D with one arrow out to 40 to 50 yards.

A lot of the skills known to NFAA pin shooters and slider sights are no longer known. I have to show the 3D archers how to stack pins. I have to show archers with slider sights how to get 80 yards with their high anchors, short slider bar, and extremely large scopes how to shoot past 50 yards. They just don't want to or know how to shoot the way we do.


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## pokynojoe

I don't think super models in bikinis handing out free beer would help. My state is down to two field clubs and they are a six hour drive apart. One club(my club) didn't even bother to hang targets on. the field bales this year. The state field championship is in two weeks and its at the other club(six hour drive). I told them I'd be attending, but this would be my last one. They'll be lucky to get ten or twelve. I've been a board member of my state's NFAA affiliate for many years. I think it's time to tell the NFAA we surrender, and just disband. There's no point in continuing.


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## tcking1953

I've tried to convince the mid atlantic directors to advance the Nfaa Outdoor 300 round. I think it might attract more 3d type shooters. 60 arrows, 10 to 65 yards, 15 targets, 4 arrows per target. 3 walk ups, 65,60,55,50 and 45,40,35,30 and 35,30,35, 20 foot hunny. Seems like I might be missing another close walkup, maybe 35, 30,25,20. 
Plus you have the indoor 300 round and it makes it easy for shooters to Compare winter vs summer scores. I think it is a forgotten round that is exactly what we need. Finish up quicker, not as hard easier to maintain the course. 

what do you guys think about this?

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## carlosii

tcking1953 said:


> I've tried to convince the mid atlantic directors to advance the Nfaa Outdoor 300 round. I think it might attract more 3d type shooters. 60 arrows, 10 to 65 yards, 15 targets, 4 arrows per target. 3 walk ups, 65,60,55,50 and 45,40,35,30 and 35,30,35, 20 foot hunny. Seems like I might be missing another close walkup, maybe 35, 30,25,20.
> Plus you have the indoor 300 round and it makes it easy for shooters to Compare winter vs summer scores. I think it is a forgotten round that is exactly what we need. Finish up quicker, not as hard easier to maintain the course.
> 
> what do you guys think about this?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Good idea.


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## Larry brown

tcking1953 said:


> I've tried to convince the mid atlantic directors to advance the Nfaa Outdoor 300 round. I think it might attract more 3d type shooters. 60 arrows, 10 to 65 yards, 15 targets, 4 arrows per target. 3 walk ups, 65,60,55,50 and 45,40,35,30 and 35,30,35, 20 foot hunny. Seems like I might be missing another close walkup, maybe 35, 30,25,20.
> Plus you have the indoor 300 round and it makes it easy for shooters to Compare winter vs summer scores. I think it is a forgotten round that is exactly what we need. Finish up quicker, not as hard easier to maintain the course.
> 
> what do you guys think about this?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Personally I like the way it’s set up now, 14 field and 14 hunter rounds. I think we have made it to simple, I love 3D but field will challenge you more. I think field helps 3D shooters. Has me anyway. 


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## Garceau

Field has made me a much better 3D shooter - no doubt about it.


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## j.conner

Yes, but the NFAA needs to simplify its rounds to make them more appealing. Even as a 35 year NFAA member, I find their paper shoots to be too fussy and complicated, definitely a holdover from pre-TV days when people generally had more time and longer attention spans.

FWIW, I also think that the WA rules are in need of simplification.


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## nestly

These days....there are a lot of people that dont want to spend 3-1/2 to 5 hours on a Field course so maybe the 300 round would help? I dont mind shooting 28 Field. And I dont understand why people think its complicated?

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## Larry brown

nestly said:


> These days....there are a lot of people that dont want to spend 3-1/2 to 5 hours on a Field course so maybe the 300 round would help? I dont mind shooting 28 Field. And I dont understand why people think its complicated?
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


I’m slow at it especially on the walk ups cause I gotta readjust sight etc... but we are going Saturday morning at 6am and will be done by 8:30-9 with 28 targets now that I know what I’m doing. My buddy is more shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot. I’m a little slower and like to study each shot a little. But we aren’t in a tournament either. We are going to try to revive our range and try to get some youngsters from school shooting. 


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## HavanaMax

We are in Mechanicsburg for the National... where a you?


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## grantmac

Mismanagement and outdated rules.


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## nestly

grantmac said:


> Mismanagement and outdated rules.



Can you be more specific?

Our State organization (PSAA) does a GREAT job managing State and Regional Field tournaments, and IMO Field rules/classes/divisions are still inclusive and applicable. Again, I'm saying that as someone from an area where Field is not what it use to be, but still pretty strong.

BTW, I was told by a worker the number of registered shooters at Mechanicsburg is higher than any other NFAA Field National since 2004.


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## carlosii

nestly said:


> Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I was told by a worker the number of registered shooters at Mechanicsburg is higher than any other NFAA Field National since 2004.




That's good news.


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## vahylander

tcking1953 said:


> I've tried to convince the mid atlantic directors to advance the Nfaa Outdoor 300 round. I think it might attract more 3d type shooters. 60 arrows, 10 to 65 yards, 15 targets, 4 arrows per target. 3 walk ups, 65,60,55,50 and 45,40,35,30 and 35,30,35, 20 foot hunny. Seems like I might be missing another close walkup, maybe 35, 30,25,20.
> Plus you have the indoor 300 round and it makes it easy for shooters to Compare winter vs summer scores. I think it is a forgotten round that is exactly what we need. Finish up quicker, not as hard easier to maintain the course.
> 
> what do you guys think about this?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


I really want to get into field- I like shooting all games. This is a great idea to transition more 3D shooters into field! Not as intimidating to start and diversified. I attend 3D shoots at a club in Staunton, VA that has an awesome field course that is slowly fading into disrepair. They say no one wants to learn field anymore. But this is a way to get some folks trying it I believe. Then those digging it, can graduate to 28 if they want.


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## grantmac

nestly said:


> Can you be more specific?
> 
> Our State organization (PSAA) does a GREAT job managing State and Regional Field tournaments, and IMO Field rules/classes/divisions are still inclusive and applicable. Again, I'm saying that as someone from an area where Field is not what it use to be, but still pretty strong.
> 
> BTW, I was told by a worker the number of registered shooters at Mechanicsburg is higher than any other NFAA Field National since 2004.


They should have synchronized rules with World Archery, or at the very least shooting classes.


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## Lazarus

grantmac said:


> They should have synchronized rules with World Archery, or at the very least shooting classes.


Just curious as to why you believe this would be an asset to the NFAA. They are two completely different organizations and disciplines shot under widely varying conditions. What rules does WA have that the NFAA should but doesn't? Please don't say the no camo bow rule. :wink:


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## grantmac

3 classes, less age groups and vastly superior Field rules.


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## Lazarus

grantmac said:


> 3 classes, less age groups and vastly superior Field rules.


I hear you. I'm an advocate of some further overhaul after the reduction of NFAA classes last year. I don't believe it would in the interest of the NFAA however to eliminate many of the classes and styles that have provided much of the history of the NFAA. On the other hand it seems many of those classes are dying. I sure don't have all the answers, none of them for that matter. It would be really awesome however if field could experience a sustained revival. A lot of the blame gets placed on the "rules." While the rules sure need some overhaul I'm not sure that's what keeps people away.


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## mshockey

Hunting! Where the dollar goes is where the support goes. The amount of hunters purchasing equipment verses target archers is astronomical. 3D simulating hunting situations will draw people that typically would never even consider going to a range for any reason. Those companies that still manufacture target archery equipment along side hunting equipment pretty much use us target archers for research and development.


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## nestly

There is no distinction between Amateur and Pro in World Archery, that IMO, would not be good for target archery in the US
There is no distinction between Fixed Pins and moveable sights with scopes in World Archery. .that IMO would not be good for target archery in the US
I shoot World Archery indoor and NFAA indoor, I also shoot World Archery Field and NFAA Field, I do not agree that WA rules are superior, or would encourage greater participation. 
No denim, no camo, 60lb max, no sight lights, no memorandum while shooting, unmarked Field round... none of that sounds particularly appealing to me, and Field rules are not overly complicated in either organization. 

In principal, I agree there are too many classes, but it's kinda like a power plant, pipeline, or highway.... everyone thinks it's a great idea until it affects them. NFAA is reducing classes based on unsustainable numbers, they should not be eliminating divisions that will cause existing shooters to stop shooting. NFAA should adjust the value of the awards to be reflective of the class size instead of giving out the same silver bowl whether there's 200 shooters in a class, or only 1 shooter.


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## erdman41

x=6 for just pros doesn't help.

Second perfect 560 field round ever shot at nationals today. He's 14 points behind 1st place SMH.

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## ccwilder3

Field's demise was almost instant. It was when they changed the targets. I was told the NFAA lost half its membership in three years from the change. Archers who were shooting 540 could not break 500 with the new targets.


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## Larry brown

What targets did they go from and to? I shot this morning and shot a 565 and my son shot 545. It was just me and him shooting for fun, busting nocks and slinging shots. 


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## nestly

ccwilder3 said:


> Field's demise was almost instant. It was when they changed the targets. I was told the NFAA lost half its membership in three years from the change. Archers who were shooting 540 could not break 500 with the new targets.


I wasn't shooting yet in 1977, but I'm doubtful the size of the target face had anything to do with it. If indeed there was a drastic drop-off in membership, it was most likely due to other factors that prompted the change in target size.. ie improvements in equipment such as releases and compound bows, maybe even advancements in arrow technology. Im sure NFAA didn't just up and decide to change the target face for no reason, they almost certainly did it because advancements in archery mandated the change. NFAA isn't the first organization to change the standard distance, face size, and ring values based on changes in the archery world. Our club still has some old Field/Hunter faces that are different size from the current NFAA targets, I assume they are the "old" Field targets, but I really don't know... we just use them on practice butts for those that need a "spot" to aim at, but don't necessarily care about the size of the spot, or what value it should have.

BTW, The booklet for the 73rd Outdoor National Championship (2018) contains the attendance history from 1946 to 2017. The attendance did peak in 1976, but the 10 year average before and after are almost identical, so tend not to believe that whatever change occurred in 1977 may have upset a specific group of NFAA members, but I think those who are fixated on that date/issue are probably not being particularly objective. I was shooting Field in the mid to late 1980's and there was no shortage of Field shooters back then so in relative terms, whatever happened in 1977 doesn't seem to have hurt Field that much, at least not in my area. IMO what probably "killed" Field archery was technology like video games, the internet, and cell phones.


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## wa-prez

Larry brown said:


> What targets did they go from and to? I shot this morning and shot a 565 and my son shot 545. It was just me and him shooting for fun, busting nocks and slinging shots.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How did you shoot a 565 when 560 is a perfect score? Did you count the X ring as a 6?


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## klukdog

I know what 3D is, know what indoor is... Can someone give me a brief explanation of FIELD?


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## Larry brown

wa-prez said:


> How did you shoot a 565 when 560 is a perfect score? Did you count the X ring as a 6?


My bad I ask my son what we shot and he told me above numbers and I didn’t even compute just entered them ha, I didn’t catch it till you said something!!!! I kept up with it in archers mark and had to go back and look at it, I shot a 545 and son shot 465. He has only shot the hunter side once and field side 2 times. He normally shoots hunter stake and was shooting with me at the field stakes. 


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## nestly

klukdog said:


> I know what 3D is, know what indoor is... Can someone give me a brief explanation of FIELD?







There's also videos on that youtube channel for the Hunter Round, and the Animal round... all of which are generally referred to as "Field" archery.


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## carlosii

Going back a few years I found out there was quite a battle when the headquarters was moved from Redding, CA to Yankton, SD. Apparently left lots of hard feelings.


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## tcking1953

I started shooting field in 1974. the field tagets were 5 & 3 scoring. In 1977 they switched to the 5,4,3 scoring and made the 5 ring smaller, the 3 ring bigger. guys the shot about 500 still shot 500. the guts shooting 556 to 560 found themselves shooting 535 to 545. So the new round accomplished making scores closer, no more perfect field rounds for a long time. In 1975 under the old target Terry Ragsdale shot a perfect National score. 2800. The following year in Aurora Barry Velardo and Phil Schmidt shot perfect scores the whole week in the amatuer division. In 1977 Jack Crammer shot the tournament high score averaging 544 each day and a perfect animal round 560. It was quite a while before anyone shot a 550+ score. remember most bows in the 70's were 4 wheelers with 35 to 40% letoff and aluminum arrows. The NFAA tried the old field faces in the mid 90's. people really perfered the 5,4,3 scoring format.

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## lees

Holy moly, I had to watch the video linked by nestly to even remember how a field round was conducted; that's how long it's been since I shot one. So I feel both totally guilty about not seeking any out and sad at the same time... 

I don't know why exactly it happened, but I have to agree something definitely has happened to field archery. I did a number of them decades ago when I first got into archery and had a blast (I always did lousy in the hunter rounds tho). I haven't thought to look for any NFAA field shoots here in my state, but you can't swing a dead cat around here without ending up in a 3D competition somewhere. So I'd have to agree with mshocky that the popularity of bowhunting is probably responsible for the dominance of 3D at the current time.....

lee.


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## j.conner

nestly said:


> These days....there are a lot of people that dont want to spend 3-1/2 to 5 hours on a Field course so maybe the 300 round would help? I dont mind shooting 28 Field. And I dont understand why people think its complicated?


NFAA rounds are complicated compared to 3D, target archery, and WA field as follows:

*NFAA Field Round = 4 arrows per target, 5/4/3 scoring, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).

*NFAA Hunter Round = 4 arrows per target, 5/4/3 scoring, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).

*NFAA Animal Round = 3 arrows per target, scoring from 10 to 21 based on the area of the target hit and which arrow in sequence/position, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).

*3D = One arrow per target, 10/8/5 scoring. Shot from one stake per target.

*USAA/WA Target = 3 or 6 arrows per end depending on distance, 10 to 1 scoring. The only thing that varies is the distance and size of target face. Shot from the same position always.

*USAA/WA Field = 3 arrows per target, 5-1 scoring (6 for x-ring). The only thing that varies is the distance and size of target face. Shot from one stake per target.


3D is by far the simplest and truest to hunting simulation, which is why it is the most popular. It has drama and visual appeal in its favor. USAA/WA Target is less complicated but somewhat boring and repetitious. NFAA field is fussy and complicated, with different stakes all over the place used depending if Field/Hunter/Animal and penalties for violating sequence and *really* fussy scoring for the Animal Round. USAA/WA Field is a nice compromise, IMHO - shoot 3 arrows per target at the designated stake and terrain/layout is the challenge, not tripping over rules or accidentally shooting from the wrong stake or scoring arrows out of sequence/position or knowing how to score different target faces.


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## Larry brown

j.conner said:


> NFAA rounds are complicated compared to 3D, target archery, and WA field as follows:
> 
> *NFAA Field Round = 4 arrows per target, 5/4/3 scoring, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).
> 
> *NFAA Hunter Round = 4 arrows per target, 5/4/3 scoring, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).
> 
> *NFAA Animal Round = 3 arrows per target, scoring from 10 to 21 based on the area of the target hit and which arrow in sequence/position, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).
> 
> *3D = One arrow per target, 10/8/5 scoring. Shot from one stake per target.
> 
> *USAA/WA Target = 3 or 6 arrows per end depending on distance, 10 to 1 scoring. The only thing that varies is the distance and size of target face. Shot from the same position always.
> 
> *USAA/WA Field = 3 arrows per target, 5-1 scoring (6 for x-ring). The only thing that varies is the distance and size of target face. Shot from one stake per target.
> 
> 
> 3D is by far the simplest and truest to hunting simulation, which is why it is the most popular. It has drama and visual appeal in its favor. USAA/WA Target is less complicated but somewhat boring and repetitious. NFAA field is fussy and complicated, with different stakes all over the place used depending if Field/Hunter/Animal and penalties for violating sequence and *really* fussy scoring for the Animal Round. USAA/WA Field is a nice compromise, IMHO - shoot 3 arrows per target at the designated stake and terrain/layout is the challenge, not tripping over rules or accidentally shooting from the wrong stake or scoring arrows out of sequence/position or knowing how to score different target faces.


You left out the 12 ring on 3D and 14 ring on shootdowns in scoring. 
I agree the could simplify field some but I enjoy it just as much as other forms. Never shot wa but looks fun too. 


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## nestly

j.conner said:


> NFAA rounds are complicated compared to 3D, target archery, and WA field as follows:
> 
> *NFAA Field Round = 4 arrows per target, 5/4/3 scoring, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).
> 
> *NFAA Hunter Round = 4 arrows per target, 5/4/3 scoring, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).
> 
> *NFAA Animal Round = 3 arrows per target, scoring from 10 to 21 based on the area of the target hit and which arrow in sequence/position, twice around a 14-target unit makes a round. Includes fans, walk-ups, and birdies, penalties if shot in incorrect sequence (multiple stakes per target).
> 
> *3D = One arrow per target, 10/8/5 scoring. Shot from one stake per target.
> 
> *USAA/WA Target = 3 or 6 arrows per end depending on distance, 10 to 1 scoring. The only thing that varies is the distance and size of target face. Shot from the same position always.
> 
> *USAA/WA Field = 3 arrows per target, 5-1 scoring (6 for x-ring). The only thing that varies is the distance and size of target face. Shot from one stake per target.
> 
> 
> 3D is by far the simplest and truest to hunting simulation, which is why it is the most popular. It has drama and visual appeal in its favor. USAA/WA Target is less complicated but somewhat boring and repetitious. NFAA field is fussy and complicated, with different stakes all over the place used depending if Field/Hunter/Animal and penalties for violating sequence and *really* fussy scoring for the Animal Round. USAA/WA Field is a nice compromise, IMHO - shoot 3 arrows per target at the designated stake and terrain/layout is the challenge, not tripping over rules or accidentally shooting from the wrong stake or scoring arrows out of sequence/position or knowing how to score different target faces.


I think you may want to go actually read through the ASA shooting rules, then go read through the IBO shooting rules, Then go read Chapters 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 of World Archery Book 4 (Field and 3D Archery), then go read through the NFAA Field round rules. None of the rules for any of those organizations is significantly easier or more difficult than any of the others. There's a lot more to 3D and WA rules than you have implied, you're probably just more familiar with them and take them for granted... but the same is true for Field rules once you've actually shot it. The 3-1/2 minute video I posted covers EVERYTHING the archer needs to know about shooting an NFAA Field course. If someone can't view and digest the concepts covered in that short/straight forward video with relative ease, I don't know what to say, other than yeah, maybe they are too "simple" to shoot Field.


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## Bikeman CU

In our Field League you can shoot the youth stakes, 50 yard max., for the people shooting bowhunting equipment or are unable to shoot the farther targets. Prior to shooting the target we explain which target they are shooting and the distance. I always tell them- if you aren't sure, ask. It comes down to the shooter is responsible for knowing the rules. The information is on the NFAA site. We have some 3-D shooters now shooting our Field league. After shooting a Field round, one of the 3-D shooters who has traveled and shot the ASA tour stated "Man, that was a humbling experience". The best thing about Field shooting- you can miss, you don't have to shoot perfect.


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## j.conner

Larry brown said:


> You left out the 12 ring on 3D and 14 ring on shootdowns in scoring.
> I agree the could simplify field some but I enjoy it just as much as other forms. Never shot wa but looks fun too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't get me wrong, WA needs simplification too, IMHO. Too much inconsistency and special cases for my taste. I am very familiar with WA, work tournaments, and stay current on case studies and rulings.

In terms of complexity, I am addressing the experience of the typical archer participant, not special cases like team rounds, shootouts, supplementary scoring, etc. Like if someone was going to shoot a round for the first time and they were briefed on how to play.


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## Lazarus

Field rules definatly need some clean up as well as some tweaking. A 15-14, and 23-20 hunter target, and all of the fans because on most ranges the stakes are 3' apart to minimize arrow damage need to be elimimated. And there are others as well. 

I wonder if everyone that thinks fields rules are complicated think the same of, say......football. They are pretty simple really, only about four things you really have to remember. 

Now, if only half of the field archery world knew the proper rules on calling (scoring) arrows that would be a giant upgrade.


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## nestly

Lazarus said:


> Now, if only half of the field archery world knew the proper rules on calling (scoring) arrows that would be a giant upgrade.


Curious to hear more about this. There were two minor issues this week in my group(s).

1) because the targets/cardboard was wet, the arrows tended to make the holes in the target a little bigger than the arrow shaft because of the arrow wiggling around as it stopped in the target. This generally caused a bit of a flat spot on the scoring line making jar-lickers a bit harder to call than if the cardboard/target had been dry/firm. Even still, I believe all the arrows in my group(s) were scored as they would have been had an official scorer been present

2) The colored dots on the animals are stickers that are placed manually thus subject to being slightly misaligned. On the first scored target of Animal round, an arrow touched the printed "X" line, but barely missed the dot/sticker. We scored the arrow as 20 rather than 21, but put an asterick on the scorecard pending further clarification. After the round, an official confirmed that the arrow needs to touch the sticker to receive the higher value.


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## redman

I was at the nfaa nationals last week and everything is set up to help the pros the pros shot animals on Sunday and every one else shot them on Friday why is that . I think nfaa is on a down hill slide I all for the pro's and the extra point for the X do it for every one .


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## nestly

redman said:


> I was at the nfaa nationals last week and everything is set up to help the pros the pros shot animals on Sunday and every one else shot them on Friday why is that . I think nfaa is on a down hill slide I all for the pro's and the extra point for the X do it for every one .


Regarding 5 days, it was 3 days some time ago, then it was 5 days. As of now, it's up to the host club, and M-burg requested it to be 5 days.
The logic behind 5 days with animal in the middle is that someone can shoot Wed/Thurs/Fri and get all 3 rounds in and be home if they have other plans or have to work the weekend *OR* they can shoot Thurs/Fri/Sat and get all 3 rounds in with one less day off work and still be home in time to go back to work on Monday *OR* they can shoot Fri/Sat/Sunday. 5 days with Animal in the middle actually makes a whole lot of sense if the objective is to make the tournament as accessible to as many people as possible. I know plenty of people that shot each of the 3 combinations, that would not have shot it at all if they would not have had the option.

As far as scoring goes, I don't think it matters if the X is scored as an "X" or as 6. Half the people will like it, half won't. I'm pretty sure Shane Wills wasn't too stoked about shooting only the 2nd perfect 560 Field round in history on day 1 in Pro, and being in like 18th place. On the other hand, Chris Perkins is probably super stoked that his record setting 105/112X's each had a value of "6" and earned him a win over many others that shot more spots.


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## IGluIt4U

nestly said:


> Regarding 5 days, it was 3 days some time ago, then it was 5 days. As of now, it's up to the host club, and M-burg requested it to be 5 days.
> The logic behind 5 days with animal in the middle is that someone can shoot Wed/Thurs/Fri and get all 3 rounds in and be home if they have other plans or have to work the weekend *OR* they can shoot Thurs/Fri/Sat and get all 3 rounds in with one less day off work and still be home in time to go back to work on Monday *OR* they can shoot Fri/Sat/Sunday. 5 days with Animal in the middle actually makes a whole lot of sense if the objective is to make the tournament as accessible to as many people as possible. I know plenty of people that shot each of the 3 combinations, that would not have shot it at all if they would not have had the option.
> 
> As far as scoring goes, I don't think it matters if the X is scored as an "X" or as 6. Half the people will like it, half won't. I'm pretty sure Shane Wills wasn't too stoked about shooting only the 2nd perfect 560 Field round in history on day 1 in Pro, and being in like 18th place. On the other hand, Chris Perkins is probably super stoked that his record setting 105/112X's each had a value of "6" and earned him a win over many others that shot more spots.


Both good points and you're right, that had to be tough on Shane to shoot a clean round and be at the bottom of page 1, but... at that level (pros), the x count becomes far more important, so I respect that nuance in the scoring for the pros.


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## Lazarus

IGluIt4U said:


> Both good points and you're right, that had to be tough on Shane to shoot a clean round and be at the bottom of page 1, but... at that level (pros), the x count becomes far more important, so I respect that nuance in the scoring for the pros.


I'll go on record with a couple of thoughts. If the x counts as a 6 on the Pro course the 560 should be meaningless (because it is.) The goal should now be a 672. Just doesn't have the same ring to it as 560 does it? Furthermore, changing the scoring for the Pro's has contributed to one of the biggest problems with organized archery I believe. That would be, it's very difficult for Joe Backyard Shooter to compare his scores with those of the Pro's. That sucks. I could go into that in more detail but won't at this point.

Second. I am convinced scoring the x as a 6 is wrong for this reason; with any field/hunter target including and inside 30 yards (exception; the bunnies) you are increasing the probability that someone is going to lose a point to a glance out. In other words you're penalizing the better shooter because he is forced to shoot for the middle of the x rather than loosely grouping your arrows around the middle to reduce the chance for a glance out. That just isn't right. It may not be a huge deal at 30, more so at 25, it happens occasionaly at 20 and at the stakes inside 20 it becomes pretty common to glance one out if your are shooting for the exact middle. A person shouldn't be penalized for a good shot because they are forced to shoot directly at the middle. 

Just my thoughts. :cheers:


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## huteson2us2

ccwilder3 said:


> Field's demise was almost instant. It was when they changed the targets. I was told the NFAA lost half its membership in three years from the change. Archers who were shooting 540 could not break 500 with the new targets.


Yes I was there. We lost at least 1/2 of members. I quit the NFAA for 3 years and went back to shooting the NFAA in 1979. Next year I get my 40 year pin instead of my 50. I was also shooting when the fans went from 4 arrows in one target to 2 arrows in left top target for 1st shooters and 2 arrows in upper right target. I was also there when a fan was at least 10 feet between stakes instead of a foot like today. I was also shooting NFAA when the bunny went from shooting the a horizontal line from left to right to a line from bottom to top then from anyway you want as long as there is only one arrow per target in a veritcal line. I also went from first 2 shooters up shoot left and right outside vertical line to nobody knows.

The rules have become more complicated and the rules are the problem. I went from having to pick which NFAA round I wanted to shoot each weekend to shooting one every couple of years.


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## huteson2us2

Larry brown said:


> What targets did they go from and to? I shot this morning and shot a 565 and my son shot 545. It was just me and him shooting for fun, busting nocks and slinging shots.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The target was scored 5 and 3. The 5 spot was a lot bigger. Maybe twice the size of the spot today. Shooting a 565 on the field is very impressive since a perfect score is 560.


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## huteson2us2

nestly said:


> I wasn't shooting yet in 1977, but I'm doubtful the size of the target face had anything to do with it. If indeed there was a drastic drop-off in membership, it was most likely due to other factors that prompted the change in target size.. ie improvements in equipment such as releases and compound bows, maybe even advancements in arrow technology. Im sure NFAA didn't just up and decide to change the target face for no reason, they almost certainly did it because advancements in archery mandated the change. NFAA isn't the first organization to change the standard distance, face size, and ring values based on changes in the archery world. Our club still has some old Field/Hunter faces that are different size from the current NFAA targets, I assume they are the "old" Field targets, but I really don't know... we just use them on practice butts for those that need a "spot" to aim at, but don't necessarily care about the size of the spot, or what value it should have.
> 
> BTW, The booklet for the 73rd Outdoor National Championship (2018) contains the attendance history from 1946 to 2017. The attendance did peak in 1976, but the 10 year average before and after are almost identical, so tend not to believe that whatever change occurred in 1977 may have upset a specific group of NFAA members, but I think those who are fixated on that date/issue are probably not being particularly objective. I was shooting Field in the mid to late 1980's and there was no shortage of Field shooters back then so in relative terms, whatever happened in 1977 doesn't seem to have hurt Field that much, at least not in my area. IMO what probably "killed" Field archery was technology like video games, the internet, and cell phones.


It was the target that cut the membership in half. The NFAA was the organization that accepted releases and the compound making it more desirable. I went to the 1979 Nationals and as you said the numbers were not any lower from the 1976 but the numbers of archers at the state or club level went from over 200 to less than 100. The same people always go to the Nationals so the number stayed the same. Changing the target was for the pros. There were too may shooting 560 on the round. Of course, we were counting Xs to break the ties at that time. The target was changed and the average shooters were upset and quit. Recently the pros wanted to count the X as a 6. Only this time the NFAA said that they would not make the same mistake as before by makeing the change for everyone and it has made a lot of archers upset anyway. Why they stopped counting Xs, I will never know. The year before they stopped, I won the State Championship by the X count. They have always had a column for the Xs and want everyone to mark Xs on the score card but will not count them for breaking a tie.


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## Larry brown

huteson2us2 said:


> The target was scored 5 and 3. The 5 spot was a lot bigger. Maybe twice the size of the spot today. Shooting a 565 on the field is very impressive since a perfect score is 560.


Yeah see my correction post above. 
I didn’t even compute before I posted. 


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## nestly

For those still suggesting Field rules are too complicated, what's not covered in the short NFAA produced video linked in Post #37? Maybe with todays technology, the written rules for Field should be removed from the bylaws and replaced with a video link, or that video played during the announcements prior to the round. Seriously, I think those 3 minute videos cover everything an archer needs to know about shooting NFAA Field with the exception of some vagueness about the bunny shooting order... so perhaps add another 20 seconds to the video dedicated to the Bunny, and IMO anyone watching that video is now prepared to go shoot a Field round without confusion about the rules.


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## IGluIt4U

Lazarus said:


> I'll go on record with a couple of thoughts. If the x counts as a 6 on the Pro course the 560 should be meaningless (because it is.) The goal should now be a 672. Just doesn't have the same ring to it as 560 does it? Furthermore, changing the scoring for the Pro's has contributed to one of the biggest problems with organized archery I believe. That would be, it's very difficult for Joe Backyard Shooter to compare his scores with those of the Pro's. That sucks. I could go into that in more detail but won't at this point.
> 
> Second. I am convinced scoring the x as a 6 is wrong for this reason; with any field/hunter target including and inside 30 yards (exception; the bunnies) you are increasing the probability that someone is going to lose a point to a glance out. In other words you're penalizing the better shooter because he is forced to shoot for the middle of the x rather than loosely grouping your arrows around the middle to reduce the chance for a glance out. That just isn't right. It may not be a huge deal at 30, more so at 25, it happens occasionaly at 20 and at the stakes inside 20 it becomes pretty common to glance one out if your are shooting for the exact middle. A person shouldn't be penalized for a good shot because they are forced to shoot directly at the middle.
> 
> Just my thoughts. :cheers:


I don't disagree at all and honestly, I don't personally like the extra point from an X either. I liked it better when points are points and x's are x's and we either count who got more x's if it's a tie 'score' or who dropped the first x, whatever.... it makes more sense to me that way. :cheers:


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## huteson2us2

nestly said:


> There's also videos on that youtube channel for the Hunter Round, and the Animal round... all of which are generally referred to as "Field" archery.


This is a great video and I will use in to teach with. Of course the X has not been use to break ties for several years and nothing was said about shooting two arrows at the 23 and 15 yd stakes and 2 more arrows from the 20 and 14 yd stakes on the hunter round. The animal round is a whole different story. I know this is a video for the field round, but anyone going to the Nationals or the North American Championship would still have a great deal of confusion.


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## nestly

huteson2us2 said:


> This is a great video and I will use in to teach with. Of course the X has not been use to break ties for several years and nothing was said about shooting two arrows at the 23 and 15 yd stakes and 2 more arrows from the 20 and 14 yd stakes on the hunter round. The animal round is a whole different story. I know this is a video for the field round, but anyone going to the Nationals or the North American Championship would still have a great deal of confusion.


There are companion videos for the Hunter Round and the Animal round, which do cover the two-position 23-20, 19-17, and 15-14 in Hunter, as well at the 3 positions for Animal. All of them are for the "fundamentals" but they would only need minimal additional content to serve as a complete replacement/alternative to the written "shooting rules", IMO

As for scoring, the video(s) do instruct the proper method for recording scoring rings (and X's) currently. How the scoring gets translated into final results depends on the level of the tournament and/or the decision of the tournament directors, but the way each arrow is recorded on the scorecard is consistent with the instructions in each video AFAIK, whether it's classic 560/X scoring where the X is just and X, or the X has additional value.


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## Lazarus

Nestly, while we're on the subject, what would you think about requiring all animal dots to be orange rather than white?

Of course HQ would probably fight the change for whatever reason but I believe it would be a good change.


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## erdman41

Lazarus said:


> Nestly, while we're on the subject, what would you think about requiring all animal dots to be orange rather than white?
> 
> Of course HQ would probably fight the change for whatever reason but I believe it would be a good change.


Our state this year eliminated the animal round. Best thing that could happen to it. I did not hear one person say they missed it.

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## nestly

Lazarus said:


> Nestly, while we're on the subject, what would you think about requiring all animal dots to be orange rather than white?
> 
> Of course HQ would probably fight the change for whatever reason but I believe it would be a good change.


Having never given any previous thought to an "orange" dot on the animal faces, my initial reaction is that if we're shooting at little stickers, it probably doesn't matter what color the sticker is, but I would have a preference toward keeping the dots "white" on dark colored animals and "black" on light colored animals just for some diversity within the round. My preference would be to leave the stickers/dots off the animals and shoot only the outline of the "X-ring" as they are printed on the official animal target(s). I think the bowhunter/animal round should actually be an "animal round", not a "dot" round. Quite honestly I don't recall even seeing any "animals" on the targets butts during the "animal" round at Nationals, all I saw was black/white dots... the fact that the dots happened to be placed on a paper animal was irrelevant, they could have just been a brown paper bags with a "dot" in the middle of an oval as far as I cared because the only thing I was aiming at was the "dot". By some weird stroke of luck, I happened to do particularly well in that round and it greatly helped my finishing position, but I'd actually prefer to be shooting "animals" in the animal round rather than "dots".


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## TNMAN

Pro Div shot an Expert Round on the last day of Outdoor Nats in the late 1970's well into the 80's. Beat shooting a meaningless animal round (no bonus dots).


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## Lazarus

nestly said:


> Having never given any previous thought to an "orange" dot on the animal faces, my initial reaction is that if we're shooting at little stickers, it probably doesn't matter what color the sticker is, but I would have a preference toward keeping the dots "white" on dark colored animals and "black" on light colored animals just for some diversity within the round. My preference would be to leave the stickers/dots off the animals and shoot only the outline of the "X-ring" as they are printed on the official animal target(s). I think the bowhunter/animal round should actually be an "animal round", not a "dot" round. Quite honestly I don't recall even seeing any "animals" on the targets butts during the "animal" round at Nationals, all I saw was black/white dots... the fact that the dots happened to be placed on a paper animal was irrelevant, they could have just been a brown paper bags with a "dot" in the middle of an oval as far as I cared because the only thing I was aiming at was the "dot". By some weird stroke of luck, I happened to do particularly well in that round and it greatly helped my finishing position, but I'd actually prefer to be shooting "animals" in the animal round rather than "dots".


Interesting take. Had never thought about it that way but you're right. Might merit some additional thought.


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## Lazarus

erdman41 said:


> Our state this year eliminated the animal round. Best thing that could happen to it. I did not hear one person say they missed it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I guess I'm still a bit of a traditionalist and would hate to lose it. I also like that it gives a person a little bit of a breather in a long tournament only having to shoot one arrow per target. I kind of like nestly's idea above about just using the ring.


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## nestly

Lazarus said:


> Interesting take. Had never thought about it that way but you're right. Might merit some additional thought.





Lazarus said:


> I guess I'm still a bit of a traditionalist and would hate to lose it. I also like that it gives a person a little bit of a breather in a long tournament only having to shoot one arrow per target. I kind of like nestly's idea above about just using the ring.


I would not like to see animal round eliminated either. I really enjoy Field archery, and the "animals" just give me more opportunities to shoot more targets at more distances. Locally, we typically shoot animals as the same 112 arrow round as Field/Hunter, but I like that it's only 1 arrow per target at Nat's because it gives break from the 112 arrow grind the other days.


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## grantmac

Not to be "that guy" but the WA shooting rules, including distances fit on one 8.5x11" and all the equipment rules fit on the back. It doesn't take +10 minutes of video to explain.
Which is why it's a better game and gaining popularity.


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## nestly

grantmac said:


> Not to be "that guy" but the WA shooting rules, including distances fit on one 8.5x11" and all the equipment rules fit on the back. It doesn't take +10 minutes of video to explain.
> Which is why it's a better game and gaining popularity.


I don't agree that WA shooting rules for Field are significantly more concise or easier to understand than NFAA shooting rules for Field rules (see video below). Yes, WA equipment rules are much more concise, they also leave a lot of shooters (including anyone not shooting an unlimited setup or a camo bow) at a disadvantage or ineligible to compete, and there is no division between professional and amateur.

Perhaps WA Field is growing in your area, but I shot exactly *ONE* WA Field tournament in my lifetime, because AFAIK, that's how many I've been aware of in Pennsylvania. On the other hand, I can (and do) shoot NFAA style Field tournament every weekend during spring and summer with less than an hour's drive. Anyone that thinks people don't shoot NFAA field because of the rules are not being objective, there's just as much to like or dislike about WA Field rules as there is with NFAA Field. Those who are inclined to shoot "Field" will shoot whatever organization provides the venue, those who are not inclined to shoot "Field" wont attend either.


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## huteson2us2

Thank you Nestly. I have copied all three videos to my tablet so I can use them when showing new archers how to shoot field, hunter, and animal rounds. We teach The FITA or WA field round also. Any hint if they have a video. I quess I am terrible with the internet because I went to the NFAA website to see why I never saw these videos before and I could not find them this time either. I will go to the USAA site and see if they have a video.


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## huteson2us2

Nestly: I see the video that you posted for the WA round, but that will not work on a tablet but thank you anyway. I wish I could shoot the PA Nationals but I have family near Darrington. I cannot afford to shoot all tournaments. I shoot Vegas, Redding, and this year the North American Championship. Hope to see you at one.


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## grantmac

Book 4 includes all of the requirements for setting up a range, hardly something participants need to understand.

The actual shooting rules are simple and absolutely do fit on a single sheet of paper. Including target size/distances for every class both marked and unmarked.

Camo and fixed pins aren't a factor at the grassroots level and nobody is just turning up at Nationals without understanding the rules.

When I speak of growth I'm talking global.


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## nestly

grantmac said:


> Book 4 includes all of the requirements for setting up a range, hardly something participants need to understand.
> 
> The actual shooting rules are simple and absolutely do fit on a single sheet of paper. Including target size/distances for every class both marked and unmarked.



There are 10 "Chapters" in World Archery Book 4 related to Field archery, I only included 3 of them in the comparison video because those are the 3 chapters that cover essentially the same material on page 45-47 in NFAA Bylaws... so I believe I've represented the length and breadth of the shooting rules pretty fairly between the two organizations, and IMO there isn't a hill of beans worth of difference when learning and understanding the rules for one vs the other. 



grantmac said:


> Camo and fixed pins aren't a factor at the grassroots level and nobody is just turning up at Nationals without understanding the rules.


How is camo and fixed pins not a factor at grassroots? Like I said, I've only shot one WA Field round, but I've shot plenty of WA/Fita Indoor, and simply put, those that have camo bows and fixed pins aren't shooting WA events, because WA rules are not friendly to them. There's no difference between showing up at sanctioned NFAA event without knowing the rules and showing up at a WA sanctioned event without knowing the rules. I don't know your angle, but there aint a hill of difference between shooting NFAA and shooting WA. Both have understandable and reasonable rules... but if one is more onerous than the other, it's definitely WA with rules against camo, denim, lighted sights, and no class for fixed pins, all of which are common for recreational archers in the US.



grantmac said:


> When I speak of growth I'm talking global.


As for global growth, "we" as Americans don't leave the country to shoot WA Field in any significant numbers, and other than Canada, the rest of the world doesn't come here in any significant way to shoot NFAA Field, so my concern is with what affects me and "everyone" else in the US, and in the tiny little world I live in, WA "Field" isn't even a "blip" on the radar (although I would be happy if it was)


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## j.conner

3D is vastly more popular these days. There are only a few NFAA paper shoots in the area, virtually no WA field, and a 3D every weekend. There are so many 3Ds that clubs often have a hard time not conflicting schedules. USAA/WA target is fairly popular around here too.

My experience in So Cal is that 3D shoots is what keeps NFAA clubs afloat while nobody shows up at paper shoots. They maintain a field course to keep their NFAA charter and liability insurance, and the course is used by some for practice (although the KD range gets used at least 10x more), but 3D tournaments are the bread and butter.


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## Russ H

I am loving field after moving to San Diego. We have usually one 3d and one of the NFAA field rounds each month. Turn out is less for the paper shoots but still decent and plenty of fun.


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## wa-prez

Russ H said:


> I am loving field after moving to San Diego. We have usually one 3d and one of the NFAA field rounds each month. Turn out is less for the paper shoots but still decent and plenty of fun.


Do you shoot in Balboa Park? I remember shooting there when I was stationed in San Diego (longer ago that I like to remember)!


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## j.conner

Russ H said:


> I am loving field after moving to San Diego. We have usually one 3d and one of the NFAA field rounds each month. Turn out is less for the paper shoots but still decent and plenty of fun.


Yes indeed, San Diego Archers in Balboa Park hosts an NFAA field round each month. Pasadena Roving Archers and Oranco Bowmen (Chino) do likewise.


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## Scottspot50

My local club has a field round this next Saturday. I don’t expect a huge turnout. 
1. Temps are over 100 degrees and the terrain is a little rough.
2. Most Archers have some shoulder issues and it’s 112 shots vs 28 for 3d.
3. Paper targets are paper targets. No finesse.
We get the most turnout for 3d and novelty shoots. The hard core will be there for the field shoot tho. It will be a little slow since target bows and sights will be the order of the day. Did I mention that walk ups suck with a target sight)??


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## bowman extreme

I saw 3D take over in the northeast. I also saw Lawyers scare towns into abandoning field ranges in townships, due to liability.
When clubs became the only places to allow public shoots, it was one or the other. 3D won.
Now I am seeing 3D starting it's slide downward.


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## nestly

Scottspot50 said:


> My local club has a field round this next Saturday. I don’t expect a huge turnout.
> 1. Temps are over 100 degrees and the terrain is a little rough.
> 2. Most Archers have some shoulder issues and it’s 112 shots vs 28 for 3d.
> 3. Paper targets are paper targets. No finesse.
> We get the most turnout for 3d and novelty shoots. The hard core will be there for the field shoot tho. It will be a little slow since target bows and sights will be the order of the day. Did I mention that walk ups suck with a target sight)??



1 Extreme heat is certaintly an issue for me, but IMO terrain only makes it more interesting whether it's 3D or Field.

2 IMO, if someone can shoot 60 indoor, they should be able to shoot 112 outdoor. I would say it's more of a conditioning issue than one of physical inability for most. Like indoor, Field archery does not require high poundage

3 I've often wondered why people even talk about foam vs paper. It's basically the same thing, especially when there's already at least one arrow in a 3D target because after that, the remaining shooters are not aiming at "foam", they are "dot" shooting using the existing arrow(s) in the targets as reference

In 3D, you move your sight once per target (ie 30 times for 30 arrows) If my math is right, you move the sight only 23 times for 56 arrows on each Field unit, and you move the sight 26 times per 56 arrows in a 14 target Hunter unit. For me, adjusting the sight to the yardage in Field is something that occurs while I'm "walking-up". Perhaps it's an ordeal for those without rapid travel on their target sights, but if someone can adjust their sight for 3D, adjusting it for Field shouldn't be any particular burden


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## Larry brown

nestly said:


> 1 Extreme heat is certaintly an issue for me, but IMO terrain only makes it more interesting whether it's 3D or Field.
> 
> 2 IMO, if someone can shoot 60 indoor, they should be able to shoot 112 outdoor. I would say it's more of a conditioning issue than one of physical inability for most. Like indoor, Field archery does not require high poundage
> 
> 3 I've often wondered why people even talk about foam vs paper. It's basically the same thing, especially when there's already at least one arrow in a 3D target because after that, the remaining shooters are not aiming at "foam", they are "dot" shooting using the existing arrow(s) in the targets as reference
> 
> In 3D, you move your sight once per target (ie 30 times for 30 arrows) If my math is right, you move the sight only 23 times for 56 arrows on each Field unit, and you move the sight 26 times per 56 arrows in a 14 target Hunter unit. For me, adjusting the sight to the yardage in Field is something that occurs while I'm "walking-up". Perhaps it's an ordeal for those without rapid travel on their target sights, but if someone can adjust their sight for 3D, adjusting it for Field shouldn't be any particular burden


Heat doesn’t bother me if I stay hydrated.

I think some of your 3D shooters don’t shoot indoor. I didn’t till last year and man a 5 spot kicked my butt. The Vegas wasn’t as bad I guess cause it was 3 arrows and a break. Now I can shoot fine no real problems.

I agree with 3D being like spots after the first arrow it’s weird how most of the time you wanna aim at X spot but for some reason you gravitate towards the other arrow. 

since I’m new to field I don’t know the shots in my head so it takes me a little longer to adjust and I use archers mark and have em on my phone so I check my marks with my phone so I take a little longer.





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## nestly

Larry brown said:


> Heat doesn’t bother me if I stay hydrated.
> 
> I think some of your 3D shooters don’t shoot indoor. I didn’t till last year and man a 5 spot kicked my butt. The Vegas wasn’t as bad I guess cause it was 3 arrows and a break. Now I can shoot fine no real problems.
> 
> I agree with 3D being like spots after the first arrow it’s weird how most of the time you wanna aim at X spot but for some reason you gravitate towards the other arrow.
> 
> since I’m new to field I don’t know the shots in my head so it takes me a little longer to adjust and I use archers mark and have em on my phone so I check my marks with my phone so I take a little longer.


3D generally doesn't require the same level of commitment as Field archery and I think that's the primary reason that Field has lost ground. People are just busier these days with other activities. especially when the weather is nice. Glad to hear you're getting more involved in target archery (both indoor and outdoor)


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## Larry brown

nestly said:


> 3D generally doesn't require the same level of commitment as Field archery and I think that's the primary reason that Field has lost ground. People are just busier these days with other activities. especially when the weather is nice. Glad to hear you're getting more involved in target archery (both indoor and outdoor)


Man I honestly haven’t touched my hunting bow and don’t even have arrows for it. Usually I have broke it out already. I shot it yesterday just to shoot it with my target arrows just to shoot it. I like the fact that target I can do just about anytime. 
We are doing a 3D shoot this weekend and all money is gonna go to our field targets to replace them with foam ones if we can get enough money. 


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## Arcus

nestly said:


> 1 Extreme heat is certaintly an issue for me, but IMO terrain only makes it more interesting whether it's 3D or Field.
> 
> 2 IMO, if someone can shoot 60 indoor, they should be able to shoot 112 outdoor. I would say it's more of a conditioning issue than one of physical inability for most. Like indoor, Field archery does not require high poundage
> 
> 3 I've often wondered why people even talk about foam vs paper. It's basically the same thing, especially when there's already at least one arrow in a 3D target because after that, the remaining shooters are not aiming at "foam", they are "dot" shooting using the existing arrow(s) in the targets as reference
> 
> In 3D, you move your sight once per target (ie 30 times for 30 arrows) If my math is right, you move the sight only 23 times for 56 arrows on each Field unit, and you move the sight 26 times per 56 arrows in a 14 target Hunter unit. For me, adjusting the sight to the yardage in Field is something that occurs while I'm "walking-up". Perhaps it's an ordeal for those without rapid travel on their target sights, but if someone can adjust their sight for 3D, adjusting it for Field shouldn't be any particular burden


Ditto (Except for the last paragraph. Being a barebow archer, I cannot comment on that one.)


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## SixShooter14

Larry brown said:


> ...
> I think some of your 3D shooters don’t shoot indoor. I didn’t till last year and man a 5 spot kicked my butt. The Vegas wasn’t as bad I guess cause it was 3 arrows and a break. Now I can shoot fine no real problems....


Our local shop started a weekly indoor shoot a year or 2 ago. It is very interesting to see some great 3D shooters struggle with Vegas face at 20yds. I love it since my eyesight sucks, and when I switched shooting hands last year I was able to run 45lbs DW with no problems at all.

Since everyone at our weekly shoots also hunts and shoots 3D, we decided to start alternating between Vegas 3-spot and a Delta ASA indoor face. But instead of counting the 1.5" bonus ring, we only score the penny-size inside ring. It's been neat to see how some struggle with one face but do well with the other.

Just from my limited spot shooting experience, it's pretty dang hard to hit that little X every time. Especially after 3, 4, or 5 shots. But it sure is fun not worrying about the wind, sun, heat, cold, faded target, shadows, etc...


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## Larry brown

SixShooter14 said:


> Our local shop started a weekly indoor shoot a year or 2 ago. It is very interesting to see some great 3D shooters struggle with Vegas face at 20yds. I love it since my eyesight sucks, and when I switched shooting hands last year I was able to run 45lbs DW with no problems at all.
> 
> Since everyone at our weekly shoots also hunts and shoots 3D, we decided to start alternating between Vegas 3-spot and a Delta ASA indoor face. But instead of counting the 1.5" bonus ring, we only score the penny-size inside ring. It's been neat to see how some struggle with one face but do well with the other.
> 
> Just from my limited spot shooting experience, it's pretty dang hard to hit that little X every time. Especially after 3, 4, or 5 shots. But it sure is fun not worrying about the wind, sun, heat, cold, faded target, shadows, etc...


Ha that is right. I shot a 276 and not sure how many X and then a 282 with like 15x maybe. Which was my best. I have changed around a lot and feel confident going in this years indoor. 


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## njshadowwalker

I think 3D took over bc it attracted the every day guy who can goniiybon the weekend with this kids or buddies and fling a few. And plenty of built in excuses like distance estimation etc. Field on the other hand tells you right away how “not so good” you really are. Here’s the target. Here’s the distance. Hit it. And I think there’s not enough time for guys to become truly proficient in it for them to feel like they can compete.


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## j.conner

njshadowwalker said:


> I think 3D took over bc it attracted the every day guy who can goniiybon the weekend with this kids or buddies and fling a few. And plenty of built in excuses like distance estimation etc. Field on the other hand tells you right away how “not so good” you really are. Here’s the target. Here’s the distance. Hit it. And I think there’s not enough time for guys to become truly proficient in it for them to feel like they can compete.


Exactly! 3D is also more aesthetically interesting/pleasing/dramatic. The game is relatively quick and straightforward - done by lunch with plenty of time for soccer practice, little league, shopping, chores, etc. afterwards. Also, folks can get a compound bow (even a ready-to-shoot package at Bass Pro) and readily become hunting accurate, so they are in the game. I think that essentially field archery is from a day when it was all longbow/recurve, which takes much longer to become proficient but life was also slower and less distracting, so a longer game that is more like a past time was the norm. I would also point out that, from an operations perspective, a 3D shoot is much more readily set up and torn down than a field range. The field range is more of a permanent fixture to support practice and maintain liability insurance coverage for the home club. Once there, it is easy to setup a paper shoot, but the attendance is much less. 3D definitely draws the crowds and the revenue.


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## pokynojoe

Our State Field Championship was several weekends ago. Total participants was 12, no women, and 8 out of the twelve were over 60 years of age. There were not enough in any division to issue awards, so I guess we saved a little there. I'd say it's pretty much dead here.


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## Arcus

pokynojoe said:


> Our State Field Championship was several weekends ago. Total participants was 12, no women, and 8 out of the twelve were over 60 years of age. There were not enough in any division to issue awards, so I guess we saved a little there. I'd say it's pretty much dead here.


Where?


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## nestly

Location Location Location and Advertising Advertising Advertising

Our 2 day PSAA Field Championship in Pa pulls 150 to 200 shooters. The PFATA state championship ... about 20.

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## wa-prez

nestly said:


> Location Location Location and Advertising Advertising Advertising
> 
> Our 2 day PSAA Field Championship in Pa pulls 150 to 200 shooters. The PFATA state championship ... about 20.
> 
> Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


You have two state organizations in Pennsylvania that both do a Field Championship? Are they both NFAA style Field, or is one USAA (FITA Field)?


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## nestly

wa-prez said:


> You have two state organizations in Pennsylvania that both do a Field Championship? Are they both NFAA style Field, or is one USAA (FITA Field)?


Actually, counting FITA, we have 3.

*PSAA (Pennsylvania State Archery Association)* My understanding is that PSAA predates NFAA so many maintain the NFAA is based on PSAA format, not the other way around. PSAA basically shoots NFAA classes and rules for Field, however our class naming convention is different. PSAA holds four 2-day shoots each year
1) PSAA State Indoor. Basically a double Vegas round each day. (60 arrows each day)
2) PSAA State Target. 120 arrow 1200 round on Day 1, 90 arrow 900 round on Day 2.
3) PSAA Field. 28 target Field round on day 1, 28 target Hunter round on Day 2
4) PSAA Bowhunter/Animal. 28 target Animal round each day (4 arrows at each animal)

*PFATA (Pennsylvania Field and Target Archers).* This is the State organization for NFAA
1) PFATA State Indoor. Standard NFAA 5 spot indoor round held on two consecutive days at multiple locations. Each shooter may shoot 2 rounds, and keep the highest.
2) PFATA State Outdoor. 1 day, 14 Field, 14 Hunter, 14 animals (animal is a 1 arrow round)

*FITA Archers of PA*
1) PA FITA Indoor State Championship
2) PA FITA Outdoor State Championship
3) PA FITA Field Championship


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## njshadowwalker

I forgot what the shoot was titled. But it was legit like 12 years ago in Pittsburgh PA. I believe it was in the Westin. 40, 50, and 60 yards. I enjoyed it. It was different. I believe the next year it was replaced with a standard boring ole 450 round. That’s when I stopped traveling as much.


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## nestly

njshadowwalker said:


> I forgot what the shoot was titled. But it was legit like 12 years ago in Pittsburgh PA. I believe it was in the Westin. 40, 50, and 60 yards. I enjoyed it. It was different. I believe the next year it was replaced with a standard boring ole 450 round. That’s when I stopped traveling as much.


"Eastern" perhaps?
Eastern Archery Association claims to be the longest running archery organization in the US. Next year will be the 140th Annual Eastern, which I haven't ever shot and I don't know the history of, but it's currently a 2-day 4 distance FITA 1440 held in Sharpsville PA (north of Pittsburgh)


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## njshadowwalker

nestly said:


> njshadowwalker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I forgot what the shoot was titled. But it was legit like 12 years ago in Pittsburgh PA. I believe it was in the Westin. 40, 50, and 60 yards. I enjoyed it. It was different. I believe the next year it was replaced with a standard boring ole 450 round. That’s when I stopped traveling as much.
> 
> 
> 
> "Eastern" perhaps?
> Eastern Archery Association claims to be the longest running archery organization in the US. Next year will be the 140th Annual Eastern, which I haven't ever shot and I don't know the history of, but it's currently a 2-day 4 distance FITA 1440 held in Sharpsville PA (north of Pittsburgh)
Click to expand...

I don’t remember the technical name but I now remember one of the shoots I went too the t shirt said the stanaslawski (STAN bc I can’t spell) open.


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## JF from VA

njshadowwalker said:


> I forgot what the shoot was titled. But it was legit like 12 years ago in Pittsburgh PA. I believe it was in the Westin. 40, 50, and 60 yards. I enjoyed it. It was different. I believe the next year it was replaced with a standard boring ole 450 round. That’s when I stopped traveling as much.


I think what you are referring to is the old Atlantic City shoot that the NFAA bought. After its last year in Atlantic City, the NFAA moved it to Pittsburgh for two years. After Pittsburgh, they moved it somewhere else for one year. They may have renamed it the Stan Open. It was an American round: 40, 50, 60 yards. And I believe you are correct, after Pittsburgh, the American round was replaced with a 20-yard 450 round.


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## wa-prez

nestly said:


> Actually, counting FITA, we have 3.
> 
> *PSAA (Pennsylvania State Archery Association)* My understanding is that PSAA predates NFAA so many maintain the NFAA is based on PSAA format, not the other way around. PSAA basically shoots NFAA classes and rules for Field, however our class naming convention is different. PSAA holds four 2-day shoots each year
> 1) PSAA State Indoor. Basically a double Vegas round each day. (60 arrows each day)
> 2) PSAA State Target. 120 arrow 1200 round on Day 1, 90 arrow 900 round on Day 2.
> 3) PSAA Field. 28 target Field round on day 1, 28 target Hunter round on Day 2
> 4) PSAA Bowhunter/Animal. 28 target Animal round each day (4 arrows at each animal)
> 
> *PFATA (Pennsylvania Field and Target Archers).* This is the State organization for NFAA
> 1) PFATA State Indoor. Standard NFAA 5 spot indoor round held on two consecutive days at multiple locations. Each shooter may shoot 2 rounds, and keep the highest.
> 2) PFATA State Outdoor. 1 day, 14 Field, 14 Hunter, 14 animals (animal is a 1 arrow round)
> 
> *FITA Archers of PA*
> 1) PA FITA Indoor State Championship
> 2) PA FITA Outdoor State Championship
> 3) PA FITA Field Championship


Do the three organizations coordinate their calendar in any way so their State Championships are not on the same days?

Washington is one of the few states where we have a single organization that covers both our NFAA and USAA shoots, and a few that are "state rules only" and don't require National membership. So we have 9 (some years only 8) State Championship events

WSAA Indoor Multi-Color (like Vegas)
WSAA Indoor Blueface (NFAA)
WSAA Safari (like Redding but paper animals)
WSAA 3D (State rules, IBO style scoring, NFAA divisions / styles)
WSAA Field (NFAA)
WSAA Target (NFAA)
Outdoor FITA (USAA)
FITA Field (USAA)
Indoor FITA (USAA)

Lots of fun for everyone!


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## huteson2us2

I never knew how good I had it in Washington State until I moved. Everything is organized by the state and they put out a calendar for the year every January for every type of shoot during the year with maps and all information needed to attend. In AZ, I sill find out about a tournament the day after it ends. The tournaments info is spread by word of mouth instead of by flyers.


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## Larry brown

huteson2us2 said:


> I never knew how good I had it in Washington State until I moved. Everything is organized by the state and they put out a calendar for the year every January for every type of shoot during the year with maps and all information needed to attend. In AZ, I sill find out about a tournament the day after it ends. The tournaments info is spread by word of mouth instead of by flyers.


Start your own website. My buddy did, https://mississippiarchery.com 
Message him he can help ya. 


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## j.conner

huteson2us2 said:


> I never knew how good I had it in Washington State until I moved. Everything is organized by the state and they put out a calendar for the year every January for every type of shoot during the year with maps and all information needed to attend. In AZ, I sill find out about a tournament the day after it ends. The tournaments info is spread by word of mouth instead of by flyers.


Interesting... archery is really big in Arizona - shouldn't be hard to find a tournament or place to shoot, at least not in the greater Phoenix area.


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## NoviceAddicted

I just think it's a crying shame how little interest there is in Field Archery Here. Don't get me wrong the few folks who shoot Field here are Great, but it's a small group and a lot of Archers are in their 70's with one gentleman who is 85. I have heard suggestions about making half rounds or other things to make easier shorter. To me that would cheapen it and I would rather crawl, get heat stroke, get carried off in an ambulance, whatever than cheapen Field Archery.


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## bghunter7311

NoviceAddicted said:


> I just think it's a crying shame how little interest there is in Field Archery Here. Don't get me wrong the few folks who shoot Field here are Great, but it's a small group and a lot of Archers are in their 70's with one gentleman who is 85. I have heard suggestions about making half rounds or other things to make easier shorter. To me that would cheapen it and I would rather crawl, get heat stroke, get carried off in an ambulance, whatever than cheapen Field Archery.


Those are generally good stand up citizens and those that frequent AT well u get the point.


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## knarrly

carlosii said:


> What happened to drive down the popularity of the NFAA and field archery? I still shoot field when the opportunity is there, but that's few and far between.


We don't have field shoots at our range even though our range is set up where it could be easily done ( 2 loops 14 targets to each and yardage markers out 80 ). Anymore MOST people don't like to shoot as many arrows as a field round takes it seems. Usually when i explain a field round most people i've talked to say they really don't feel like shooting that much. Another comment i hear is that shooting a target face isn't good practice for hunting, and they want their 3-d targets.

Also (sadly) people seem to become discouraged (instead of looking at it as a way to improve) when they shoot 4 arrow groups and find out what their true groups look like at marked yardage.

If i have time next year I hope to try to set up a couple redding style shoots for our club. Hopefully having the foam targets and only 2 arrows per will allow more people to consider shooting one.


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## j.conner

Most clubs maintain a field archery course as a condition of their NFAA charter, which provides low cost liability insurance.


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## Larry brown

We just ordered 14 new big boy targets for our field range, hoping to keep it going for many more years. 


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## SonnyThomas

The down fall of Field may have very well started with the target size change, but the NFAA has shot it's self in the foot so many times since. Can't be for sure, but thought it was a required event for clubs at one time. I know our club held a Field event and all worked their butts off to have the range in pristine order. We had 8 people show up. Our club had a 3 Star rating. Fenced play area and all. NFAA clubs at one time had it mandatory for a new member to join the NFAA. When clubs started losing members that was changed. Whole families shot Field. Well, along came soccer and roller blades and whatever else the kids wanted. 2005 was a killer - The NFAA/TNUSA Merger that eventually failed before it got going...The NFAA jumped membership fees at the same time and then states jumped their fee. For 2006 NFAA membership plummeted, losing some 3000 members. A friend and I thought about shooting the IAA Outdoor Championship this year and $100 was just too much - $65 NFAA/IAA membership and $35 for the event. And for 2005 or 2006 NFAA changed their insurance. Can't be for sure, but $365 base and $6.80 for every club member over 60 members and club enrollment and 5 paid members. Ours cost would have been right at $925.00. And we had ASA insurance for $350.00 which buying 10 memberships covered. We can give away for a prize or sell at a lesser fee and recover part of the then $350 (now $375).


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## Kevin Lee

Sonny Thomas, thank you for that explanation, I'm sticking with club shoots.


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## ahunter55

I still love it & do as many as possible. Planning on the Midwest sectionals, Nationals in Yankron & out State Field & 2 others listed by clubs & maybe Illinois Great Lakes Sectional as a guest.. I pay $50 total for NFAA & State membership.


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## nestly

We had our first Field shoot of the year last weekend.... I'll be shooting one almost every weekend from now until the end of July. I haven't ruled out Yankton yet...


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## Garceau

nestly said:


> We had our first Field shoot of the year last weekend.... I'll be shooting one almost every weekend from now until the end of July. I haven't ruled out Yankton yet...


Thats awesome - I will skip almost every 3D shoot to shoot a field round. I like the pureness of it better and the immediate feedback with little question as to what happened !

I started a small field league around here which we only shoot to 50 yards for the regular league. We use the 80 yard walk up as a beer target  But even shooting out to 50 on a regular basis in a field setting has tremendously helped me on every aspect of shooting especially 3D. Often times I will shoot my larger 3D arrows for this as its great to get my sight tape set up.

I have built a field course in my yard and shoot it out to 60 almost every night when it gets nicer out. Or I can sit at one distance that gave me trouble (usually 30 and 50) and wear that spot out until I get to the point I dont expect to miss it !


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## Rod Heidemann

I am looking forward to doing my first field archery tourney this year!


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## Lazarus

nestly said:


> We had our first Field shoot of the year last weekend.... I'll be shooting one almost every weekend from now until the end of July. I haven't ruled out Yankton yet...


Need to slip by my house on the way if you go. You can shoot a full 14 target field course at my house all day long, free of charge. No kiddin.


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## nestly

Lazarus said:


> Need to slip by my house on the way if you go. You can shoot a full 14 target field course at my house all day long, free of charge. No kiddin.



That would be great. If I get that way, I'll look you up for sure.


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## Larry brown

We are replacing the entire range at our local range in Mississippi. Big Boys all the way and practice range. Hoping to drum up some activity with taking out the old cardboard targets that will give you a hernia pulling micro arrows from. 


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## nestly

Larry brown said:


> We are replacing the entire range at our local range in Mississippi. Big Boys all the way and practice range. Hoping to drum up some activity with taking out the old cardboard targets that will give you a hernia pulling micro arrows from.


That's awesome. Lot's of clubs in our area still have stacked Celotex on their Field courses. It can be a fine line between too tight where pulling is a bear, and too loose where you're shooting through. Possibly the "worst" thing about Field for me is scraping gunk off my expensive target arrows.


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## Larry brown

nestly said:


> That's awesome. Lot's of clubs in our area still have stacked Celotex on their Field courses. It can be a fine line between too tight where pulling is a bear, and too loose where you're shooting through. Possibly the "worst" thing about Field for me is scraping gunk off my expensive target arrows.


The .166 arrows and cardboard are a bear. Think it was 2 double d arrow pullers and 4 people and finally broke off one arrow and twisted one in two. So we opted to spend some money and make it shootable and enjoyable. I have just got into field this year heavy and really enjoy it. Learning all the rules in the text book they call rules is tough ha! 


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## nestly

Larry brown said:


> The .166 arrows and cardboard are a bear. Think it was 2 double d arrow pullers and 4 people and finally broke off one arrow and twisted one in two. So we opted to spend some money and make it shootable and enjoyable. I have just got into field this year heavy and really enjoy it. Learning all the rules in the text book they call rules is tough ha!


Funny how opinions vary. Our State organization shoots slightly different rules than NFAA, and FITA Field is another set of rules entirely. I don't think any of them are particularly difficult. I think you'll be happy with the Big Boys. A local club redid their 28 target Field course and practice range with them last year, I think I shot them 3 times since the upgrade, this weekend will make 4 as it's their turn on the traveling Field league.


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## Alphadawg

I recently joined an archery club that shoots field because they are close to my house I also shoot 3D. My gripe with the field club I had to jump through so many hoops just to join the club not to mention the initial fee. ASA 3D shoots I just go pay $15-$20 and shoot.


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## Alphadawg

Also let me add I’m competitive and there is a 3D tournament every weekend.


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## carlosii

SonnyThomas said:


> The down fall of Field may have very well started with the target size change, but the NFAA has shot it's self in the foot so many times since. Can't be for sure, but thought it was a required event for clubs at one time. I know our club held a Field event and all worked their butts off to have the range in pristine order. We had 8 people show up. Our club had a 3 Star rating. Fenced play area and all. NFAA clubs at one time had it mandatory for a new member to join the NFAA. When clubs started losing members that was changed. Whole families shot Field. Well, along came soccer and roller blades and whatever else the kids wanted. 2005 was a killer - The NFAA/TNUSA Merger that eventually failed before it got going...The NFAA jumped membership fees at the same time and then states jumped their fee. For 2006 NFAA membership plummeted, losing some 3000 members. A friend and I thought about shooting the IAA Outdoor Championship this year and $100 was just too much - $65 NFAA/IAA membership and $35 for the event. And for 2005 or 2006 NFAA changed their insurance. Can't be for sure, but $365 base and $6.80 for every club member over 60 members and club enrollment and 5 paid members. Ours cost would have been right at $925.00. And we had ASA insurance for $350.00 which buying 10 memberships covered. We can give away for a prize or sell at a lesser fee and recover part of the then $350 (now $375).


Don't forget, Sonny, the big blow up when they moved the national headquarters from Redding. Some people are still upset with how that was handled when the new location turned out to be in the president's back yard. Face it, some people think Yankton is to far out of the way to serve as a national archery center. Plus they think the weather sometimes makes it difficult to hold shoots in that part of the country.

I don't have a dog in the fight so I can't say just how many members were upset enough to drop NFAA after that.

Compound bows require serious material for targets. When I used to shoot field it was all recurves and straw bales worked just fine. So the expense of setting a range has gone through the roof.


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## wa-prez

carlosii said:


> Don't forget, Sonny, the big blow up when they moved the national headquarters from Redding. Some people are still upset with how that was handled .


Small (or maybe big) correction here. The previous NFAA HQ was in Redlands, not Redding CA.

Redlands is east of Los Angeles, near Riverside and San Bernardino. About the last city on I-10 before you really get into the sticks. 

Whether a facility like the Easton Archery Complex could have been built there, and how desirable it would have been compared with Yankton is a toss-up.


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## carlosii

wa-prez said:


> Small (or maybe big) correction here. The previous NFAA HQ was in Redlands, not Redding CA.
> 
> Redlands is east of Los Angeles, near Riverside and San Bernardino. About the last city on I-10 before you really get into the sticks.
> 
> Whether a facility like the Easton Archery Complex could have been built there, and how desirable it would have been compared with Yankton is a toss-up.


Thank you. I plead guilty to having a brain fart. (Can you say fart on AT?). I guess I had Redding on the brain since the shoot there just wrapped up. 

As I recall there seemed to have been general agreement trying to expand at the Redlands site was feasible. I think they considered some sites in the midwest though. Water under the bridge, as they say.

I paid my dues for the year and didn't get any kind of response from the NFAA office...no membership card, no decal, not even a thank you. When I re-upped with ASA I got the package with rules, schedule, decal, magazine, etc. Oh well.............


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