# Medium vs Long limbs (how do I choose)



## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

So if I'm going with 25'' riser, what do I want to keep in mind when deciding on the size of my limbs? Since I can keep the draw weight the same with either size limb, what are the advantages/disadvantages to using a long set of limbs over medium?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Phil -

Long limb start to benefit the shooter as draw lengths get over 29". 27 - 29", and you're more in medium territory.

Standard rule of thumb, on a given riser, and with equal limb weights, the longer limb will be SLIGHTLY smoother, at the cost of a SLIGHT speed loss. Depending on draw lengths and other factors, those "SLIGHTLYs" may be undetectable. 

The above doesn't imply that you "can't" use different combination for specific reasons, just understand what you could be gaining or loosing.

Viper1 out.


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## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

so if my draw length is over 29" I should consider long over medium?


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Viper, that's good info.
On my 25 inch Althlete riser I use both short and medium limbs. I know the shorts are out of my draw length specs but I like the speed. With my 28 inch draw length I have no need for a bow over 68 inches (med limb bow = 68inch).


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Phil - 

For target work, I find the added limb length (with a smoother draw and better string angle around the fingers) a real plus. I stopped using medium limbs a few years ago. (My DL = 29.25")

A 70" rig will accommodate DLs to about 33". There are RARE cases where DLs that long or longer need to go to a 27" riser (72" bow). 

Mike -

The nice thing about ILF bows, is that it gives you a lot of room to play. Right now you're dead nuts where to should be. 

Since I like the longer rigs, I keep my limb bolts full in (at least when tuning allows), that more than compensates for any speed loss. 

Viper1 out.


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## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

I think I'm gonna go with the Samick Privilege limbs and go with the long ones. If my DL is 29.5 should I go with 30# or should I go down to like 28#?


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## c-lo (Jan 8, 2012)

Great info, since I am also looking to into a 25 inch riser and long limbs. Keep it going.


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## thorwulfx (Sep 26, 2011)

This is just the kind of thread that makes this forum worthwhile. Good stuff.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

My take on choosing the length, the length of the limb determines the draw length independently of overall bow length. More limb to take the greater bend of the longer draw length. Its especially important on shorter bows like 60" or 62".


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Phil -

30# Samick limbs on a 25" Hoyt riser,drawn to 29.5" will be about 38#, with the bolts full in. That's too heavy for my Olympic shooters to start with. For more casual shooting you might be OK. I'd recommend about 26# native. 

Viper1 out.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Here's a question for the people who might know.

Friend of mine has a really short draw, like 24" or so. She was told that she should use a shorter string so that she gets a better draw force curve for her draw length. Well, that's not exactly what they said. They said that she should do it so she can get into the 'power stroke' of the bow, but I know that's a bunch of bunk, since every inch she can draw is technically the power stroke. But, aside from the lack of knowing the definition of the power stroke, is there any merit to the idea? According to the Easton tuning guide, she could be gaining draw weight (which she really doesn't need, because she has problems with the draw weight with this shorter string), but actually losing arrow speed, due to the shorter power stroke (higher brace height.)

Thoughts?


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Shouldn't go shorter on the string, that will reduce the power stroke, increase the brace.


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## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

For short draw folks, the ILF system really can aid in performance. She can set the preload to maximum (bolts turned in) and the bow will give her a little more speed without increasing the draw weight too much.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Barney -

Increasing the brace height does three things:

1. increases the draw weight, due to the tighter arc of the limbs
2. slows the arrow, due to the SHORTENED power stroke 
3. weakens the dynamic spine of the arrow, due to #1 and change the offset at nock disengagement. 

So while shortening the string will get the limbs into a tighter arc, the loss of power stroke, *usually* makes it a losing proposition. 

Viper1 out.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Destroyer said:


> Shouldn't go shorter on the string, that will reduce the power stroke, *increase *the brace.


Should have been 'increasing'.


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## Jimmy Blackmon (Sep 9, 2010)

Some quality comments from Tony there. Sometimes folks get confused because it can be counterintuitive. It's like running. I used to be a competitive runner and coach and it drove me nuts to hear folks telling their kids to "stride it out." Have you ever been to a track meet and heard people talking about the quality of a kids stride or telling them to do so? The truth is that the only thing going on when you are mid-stride and in the air is that you are decelerating. You are only propelling yourself forward when your foot is in contact with the ground at which time you are either pulling through or pushing off. So the more steps you take is the critical piece. Faster turnover is key.

Archery is the same way. The longer the arrow is attached to the string and the limbs snapping forward the more energy that is going into the arrow. As soon as the string breaks contact with the nock the arrow is slowing down. So the longer the power stroke the faster the arrow is traveling. If you raise the brace height then the string can't come as far forward so the nock breaks contact earlier despite the preload of weight due to the limbs being bent at brace. However, when tuning, as Tony mentions, you are changing the spine of the arrow with the brace adjustment.


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## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

what do you mean when you say "with the bolts full in"?


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Maximum adjusted weight for the bow. Puts a lot more stress for little gain imo.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

My draw is just under 28" so my first ILF limbs were 'short' 48# Winex limbs (they're marked 48# but my scales say 46#),when I did some work with a level 5 coach he suggested going to Med limbs so I got some 43# Pro-Accent limbs (they were on offer 40% discount), the longer limbs do feel nicer but also chrono testing has shown the lighter/longer Pro limbs to be faster than the more expensive Winex limbs.

So longer may be better for speed as well as feel.


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## Destroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

steve morley said:


> So longer may be better for speed as well as feel.


One time you could have bet on the shorter limbs being faster but I don't think that is the case anymore. Limbs have improved substantially and the longs can be just as efficient.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Steve - 

You really move to compare the same make, model and weight limbs to draw that comparison. With quality limbs, the difference may indeed be pretty small and draw length is also a factor. Also remember that we are only talking about a difference of 1" difference between mediums and longs. That means that the actually change may be within statistical error.

Viper1 out.


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## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

Hey Viper, would going down to 24# be ok? Also what did you mean by 26# Native?


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

Limb tip and overall limb weight is a factor in speed given the same weight at a specific draw length. I think TT limbs are designed to compensate for length weight adder by making the tips smaller as they get longer. They have tested limbs of each length on the same riser and found almost no difference in speed. However, if you have limbs from various makers without any consideration to weight of tip differences per given draw weight all bets are off. For my mind there is no blanket statement on speed/length, it's driven by design and material used in the limbs and is therfore variable.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

phil -

For target shooting, and with your draw length 24# should be OK, but it may require you to upgrade earlier. Bolts full in will give you about 28#. Again for target types the usual progression would be 26#, 30#, 34# etc. without changing the limb bolt position or 24# 30#, 36, etc using the limb bolts to leverage the draw weights.

Basically, if your serious, you want to start with a bow that "feels like nothing", because it will "feel like something" later on. 24# or 26# will be fine, but yes there are always exceptions, I just haven't met too many or them. While i have a cap of 30# at their draw length for new student, the guys who start lower typically do better, faster - go figure.

Caveat - what I'm describing is for someone who wants to be as accurate as possible with as few glitches as possible. For more casual shooters, shooting less arrows per session and requiring less precision, a little more weight works as well. 

Sorry, by native, I mean weight as marked on the limb for 28". Different draw lengths and changing the limb bolt positions effect the actual weight being held on the fingers.

Viper1 out.


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## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks a bunch. The reason I asked on the 24# is because the only site I've found that seems to sell the items I'm looking at is that lancaster archery website and they have everything BUT the 24# on back order lol. The limbs wouldn't ship until the 28th and I was hoping to start shooting in a week instead of 4 weeks.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

phil -

For your consideration

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-axiom-recurve-limbs.html

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-premium-wood-recurve-limbs.html

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-premium-carbon-recurve-limbs.html

The above say expected ship date 6/5 - yesterday.

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/samick-universal-carbon-recurve-limbs.html

These appear to be in stock.

Viper1 out.


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## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

the Negative review on this one http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-axiom-recurve-limbs.html red flagged me a bit when I was shopping around. Is what he was saying something I need to worry about?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

phil -

In a word, no. Probably have a dozen or so new shooters using these limbs for indoor work right now and haven't had any issues. Even if this were the case, odds are you're not going to be shooting these at 50 - 70m.

If it bothers you, the SF "Premium" limbs in glass/wood are fine and have the same performance as the higher priced carbon/woods. 

Viper1 out.


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## primalphil (Jun 1, 2012)

After getting out to this shop down in Denver, and spending about 3 hours with one of the guys there who helped me and my wife checking our shots, I was finally able to figure that my draw length is actually at a 30". He made me draw over and over until he saw I was consistently drawing to the same point. So I think now that I'm sure, I'm gonna put my order in today on my riser and limbs. I'm going with the lefty Hoyt Horizon with the Sebastian Flute Premium wood limbs at 28#. When he had me shooting was actually shooting comfortably with a 35# bow at 28 inch draw. I'm thinking I could go up to 30# instead of 28# but at this point I'd rather go a little lower and be safe and get my form perfected before trying to be a tough guy and go with the higher weight, especially if I can get some added weight by having the bolts full in as Viper described earlier.


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## Astroguy (Oct 11, 2013)

I found this thread informative. I placed my riser order today with Alternative in the UK. A left hand green Midas. I will probably let Lancaster fit me into some long Samick Universals. Unless someone knows a better buy in the 200 dollar price range.


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## dougedwards (Sep 5, 2010)

Is the finger pinch on the string the only aspect to consider for a 30"+ draw archer when choosing length of limbs? I would think that the length of riser would also be a consideration. What would be the adverse affect of short limbs connected to a 25" riser other than a more acute string angle? I am sorry that it requires three sentences for me to get out one thought....lol

Doug


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Shorter the limbs, quicker they stack, and the harder you're pushing/stressing the materials, all else being equal.


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## DHanz (Feb 13, 2015)

Great thread. Thank you for the education. I've been rolling around some new bow choices in my head and this helped to settle my thoughts a bit.


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## fixmy6 (Mar 1, 2015)

I just got a very inexpensive setup from alternative in the UK. Upon Viper's suggestion I went with 22# long limbs on a 25" riser. I'm a big guy and drawing near 32". If you start ILF it is much easier to develop your shot and progress. I'd like to progress in to hunting, but I won't do it if I think I might miss.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

Hunting, your targets can help you miss...


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