# Michigan Baiting ban overturned by judge



## d3ue3ce (Jul 2, 2009)

2:55 pm: State baiting ban overturned

BY SHERI McWHIRTER
[email protected]

GAYLORD — An Otsego County judge overturned Michigan's ban on baiting or feeding deer and elk in the Lower Peninsula.

The decision came after state wildlife officials charged a rural Gaylord man with illegally feeding deer from his multiple bird feeders. Ken Borton fought the charge and this week 87th District Court Judge Patricia Morse threw out the case against him and struck down the ban.

Borton said he didn't expect the law to be voided altogether.

"That's not what I was going after. All I wanted was to feed my birds. I'm shocked," Borton said.

The case began when some viewers of Borton's Web site, www.snowmancam.com, reported to the state Department of Natural Resources and Environment that deer ate around the bird feeders where he trained his digital video camera. State officials twice cited Borton for violating the feeding and baiting ban, enacted two years ago after a penned deer in Kent County tested positive for chronic wasting disease.

Officials told Borton to scoop up empty seed casings daily from around his bird feeders to be in compliance with the law.

Morse instead voided the law as "unconstitutionally vague."

"The statute as drafted gives no guidance as to where and how to exclude wild animals from foraging near bird feeders. It leaves too much room for selective enforcement. It allows fact finders to rely on subjective criteria to determine criminal liability," Morse wrote in her ruling.

Dean Molnar, DNRE law enforcement assistant chief, declined to comment on Morse's ruling, as did spokeswoman Mary Dettloff.

"We have no comment at this time. We're reviewing the opinion," said Dettloff.

She did discuss reasons for the ban.

"The ban was put in place in the Lower Peninsula because of the discovery of chronic wasting disease in Kent County in 2008. We followed the state emergency response plan for chronic wasting disease, which was approved by the Natural Resources Commission and the state Commission of Agriculture," Dettloff said.

Ryan Ratajczak, president of the Northwest Michigan chapter of the Quality Deer Management Association, said his group supported the baiting and feeding ban. He's curious about the impact of Morse's ruling.

"I'm wondering how that works now. I think it was justified at the time. They had the plan in place," Ratajczak said. "I think the biggest issue is making sure we've contained CWD."

Ratajczak said he didn't object to allowing hunters to bait, but he'd prefer the decision be made by state wildlife biologists and not lawyers and judges.

Others hailed the court's decision.

"How can we justify spending time investigating a man feeding birds and prosecuting him?" said Zack Cox, owner of the Natural Farm Products store on M-66, south of Kalkaska.

Cox has long sold carrots, corn and sugar beets used by farmers for their livestock or by hunters to bait deer. He always questioned the state's baiting ban and said he's "very pleased" Morse threw it out.

"There's no logic to it. What's the difference between a deer eating at an apple tree or at a small pile of corn feed?" Cox said.


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## deer down (Feb 23, 2007)

this ought to be intresting. i kinda didnt mind the ban for a few years cause i dont want see every spike to six point blasted over a bait pile, this state has the potential to have an awesome deer herd and with a little management and selectiveness, alot more people could shoot bigger and healthier deer. that being said, it doesnt get much funner than shooting some does over a carrot pile or whatever, bait is a handy tool for hunting and herd management when used in such fashion..we just need to shed that typical michigan mentality of its got horns, shoot it..


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## Z-Rider (Jul 23, 2007)

This is going to get good :darkbeer:! Wonder how the DNR will make the announcement. We all know the state is broke and can't afford to print regulations guides every year.


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## d3ue3ce (Jul 2, 2009)

I would personally like to see the UP antler restrictions brought down here in the LP. . and get rid of the "no restriction" when using a single tag(gun only, or archery only). . thats just me though. . 

FYI to the haters that will chime in, Im not saying we should all be required to o it this way, just what I would like to see. . .


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## desertbull (Jul 26, 2006)

Finally, a judge with more than 2 living brain cells.


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

Z-Rider said:


> This is going to get good :darkbeer:! Wonder how the DNR will make the announcement. We all know the state is broke and can't afford to print regulations guides every year.


They probably won't announce it, they will just keep finding more and more people over filling their bird feeders, and keep writing tickets. Most will just pay the fine and not fight it........


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## desertbull (Jul 26, 2006)

walleye rev said:


> They probably won't announce it, they will just keep finding more and more people over filling their bird feeders, and keep writing tickets. Most will just pay the fine and not fight it........


Yep.Sort of like photo radar. Most fools don't realize you have to be served a summons.


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## Doty Bumb (Apr 9, 2010)

The judgment only pertains to one county. This rule was upheld in State Court the first year it was in effect. Just a bump in the road.


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

Doty Bumb said:


> The judgment only pertains to one county. This rule was upheld in State Court the first year it was in effect. Just a bump in the road.


I really don't see how it can only pertain to just one county..... If it's OK in that county, then it has to be OK in the rest of the counties in Michigan too.....JMO.....

OH yeah, welcome to the site......

rev doyle


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## jason060788 (Jul 14, 2006)

Wow....this is gonna get interesting


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

jason060788 said:


> Wow....this is gonna get interesting



Yes it IS.................


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## Doty Bumb (Apr 9, 2010)

A district judge can not overturn a state law. All she did was throw it out and state an opinion. 

The law (or rule in this case) stands.


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## todd39 (Sep 1, 2006)

*oh the drama*

How are you doing these days walley rev, good i hope


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## Sneaky Apasum (Jul 11, 2006)

Geez....I don't even know where to start. Maybe with the poor guy that was just feeding birds?

Why would anyone cite someone for feeding deer when they are raiding someone's BIRD feeder?

Scoop up the empty seed casings daily? Seriously? Maybe.....just maybe.....if these guys were after poachers, we wouldn't even be reading about this.

Who called this guy in? With all the problems this world faces on a daily basis, some nosey @#$%! was worried about deer eating out of this guy's bird feeder? Find something productive to do, please.....

I can't even find it within myself to be concerned about the whole baiting thing being reversed, just because of the idiocy surrounding the fact that some guy feeding his birds had to go to court because deer were eating the bird seed. I don't get it.

And at least we can be thankful for that judge.


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## Wired To Hunt (Nov 20, 2009)

Does anyone definitively know if this would be a statewide overruling?


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

todd39 said:


> How are you doing these days walley rev, good i hope


I am doing much better than I was a couple of months ago. Still get weak if I try to do too much, but Thank God I am still breathing............I am just glad to be here.........

Thanks for asking and caring.......

God bless
rev Doyle


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

Doty Bumb said:


> A district judge can not overturn a state law. All she did was throw it out and state an opinion.
> 
> The law (or rule in this case) stands.


Maybe and Maybe not, this is exactly how things get to a Higher court..........It can't be good in one county, and not good in another one.......

rev doyle


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

Wired To Hunt said:


> Does anyone definitively know if this would be a statewide overruling?


I believe it opens it up to going to a higher court........


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## desertbull (Jul 26, 2006)

equal protection clause - You can't have one county with one set of laws and the rest of the state under another set unless the state grants that power (ie dry counties)


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## Doty Bumb (Apr 9, 2010)

TB infected deer have been found in Otsego County. That could be why the Law Division was asked to check. Baiting is suspected in the spreading of TB.

michigan.gov/documents/emergingdiseases/all_positive_071907web_203354_7.pdf


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

Doty Bumb said:


> TB infected deer have been found in Otsego County. That could be why the Law Division was asked to check. Baiting is suspected in the spreading of TB.
> 
> michigan.gov/documents/emergingdiseases/all_positive_071907web_203354_7.pdf


I have seen as many deer nose to nose, in a bean field as I have over a bait pile..


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## Doty Bumb (Apr 9, 2010)

Not sure about your science because that is purely anecdotal rev. But if you believe it, then go for it.:cheer2:

Don't worry, the baiting ban will be upheld.


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

Doty Bumb said:


> Not sure about your science because that is purely anecdotal rev. But if you believe it, then go for it.:cheer2:
> 
> Don't worry, the baiting ban will be upheld.


I'm not using science, So It can't be anecdotal, All I said was I have seen it.(not hearsay).......None of us know where those deer got TB from. Was it nose to nose with other deer, or nose to nose with cows.........Who knows??

I don't worry about the baiting ban, read my avitar, 150" or better. Them kind of bucks don't get shot over bait piles.........

PoPcorn time...................


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## Cudorun (Aug 4, 2009)

If the MIDNR is concerned with CWD (which they should be) than they should ban any and all feeding of wildlife! Even feeding birds. But I do understand how influential the Audubon Soc. is in the state of MI. and realize how it would be impossible to do so. This case and any other case that the person wasnt caught in the act of deer hunting at or near the bait/feeder should be thrown out! Because how do you prove that the accussed purpose of the feeder was to feed deer and not to feed birds, squirrels, chipmunks etc. etc. etc. 

For example below is a pick of my Raccoon Feeder, Since I dont deer hunt any where near it, how would a WCO. prove that its not just a Raccoon Feeder? Especially since I love these little cute, furry creatures soooo much!! 
And also love spending a ton of $$$ of money feeding them every year.  Pike


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## Doty Bumb (Apr 9, 2010)

walleye rev said:


> I'm not using science, So It can't be anecdotal, All I said was I have seen it.(not hearsay).......None of us know where those deer got TB from. Was it nose to nose with other deer, or nose to nose with cows.........Who knows??
> 
> I don't worry about the baiting ban, read my avitar, 150" or better. Them kind of bucks don't get shot over bait piles.........
> 
> PoPcorn time...................



uuuuhhhhh, better look up anecdotal in the dictionary.:read2:

This so called judge is a public servant elected by the voters in her county. It's election year people. She knows how to grease the skids.:grouphug:


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

Doty Bumb said:


> uuuuhhhhh, better look up anecdotal in the dictionary.:read2:
> 
> This so called judge is a public servant elected by the voters in her county. It's election year people. She knows how to grease the skids.:grouphug:


The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal...........

Once again, It is not anecdotal if I seen it with my eyes. NO one told me, (it is not hearsay or anecdotal)......I seen it.....JMO...

You are right, those judges surely know how to grease the skids.....


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## Doty Bumb (Apr 9, 2010)

http://www.9and10news.com/Category/Story/?id=219255&cID=1

For more info click on the link.


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## 3children (Aug 10, 2008)

The way things are here, if I leave the apples under my tree, and have 3-9deer eating a bite and dropping it, only for the next to pick it up and take a bite, drop it and the next. Thats legal!!!! But if I take those same apples and throw them in the field, thats baiting!! What's wrong with this picture? I have said it once, when I first moved to this state, found I have to wear a license in the back, that who in their right mind would come up with that? I guess the same person/person's that outlawed hunting from a tree stand with a firearm. I for one am glad some things are changing, like those two laws. I am in favor of 6pts or above to get the deer herd to go, but when I suggest it, I get ugly looks. I also believe a "only 1 gallon of bait" rule. I know some believe in the dump truck theory, the more bait the more deer. BTW I too have witnessed the beer in the bean field, to the tune of 30-50+deer, but when a deer eats a bean, its gone. But how about the corn, some deer will eat a little and the next will eat more, and the next, so on. I have witnessed the hunting of deer with a .22 rimfire on opening day of bow season. I called the DNR about this when I got home. Told them where, who, license plate, truck model, how many hunters and the amount of deer they took. I was told that by the time they get there they will probably be gone! Didn't even get off the couch!!


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## walleye rev (Nov 24, 2003)

3children said:


> The way things are here, if I leave the apples under my tree, and have 3-9deer eating a bite and dropping it, only for the next to pick it up and take a bite, drop it and the next. Thats legal!!!! But if I take those same apples and throw them in the field, thats baiting!! What's wrong with this picture? I have said it once, when I first moved to this state, found I have to wear a license in the back, that who in their right mind would come up with that? I guess the same person/person's that outlawed hunting from a tree stand with a firearm. I for one am glad some things are changing, like those two laws. I am in favor of 6pts or above to get the deer herd to go, but when I suggest it, I get ugly looks. I also believe a "only 1 gallon of bait" rule. I know some believe in the dump truck theory, the more bait the more deer. BTW I too have witnessed the beer in the bean field, to the tune of 30-50+deer, but when a deer eats a bean, its gone. But how about the corn, some deer will eat a little and the next will eat more, and the next, so on. I have witnessed the hunting of deer with a .22 rimfire on opening day of bow season. I called the DNR about this when I got home. Told them where, who, license plate, truck model, how many hunters and the amount of deer they took. I was told that by the time they get there they will probably be gone! Didn't even get off the couch!!


Sounds like you pretty much nailed it.........We have called them several times about the 22 rim fire "bowhunting" too and NOTHING is ever done about it......


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## d3ue3ce (Jul 2, 2009)

I think that the baiting ban is BS and we should not be forced to do things one way or another. . I still wouldnt bait, but whatever works. . that said, Ive called CO's quite a few times over the last few years, and never had an issue with them coming out. . once you get in contact with one, get his/her cell phone number. . much easier to get a hold of them, and much easier to get a response than the RAP line. .


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

Down here, every once in a while, a CO will ticket someone baiting. Since I hunt between my cornfields and soybean fields, baiting is a non-issue, but it sure would be nice to add something tasty to the mix, like a huge pile of apples. We've got pretty conservative deer hunting laws down here, and when I look at some of the things other states are allowed, I'm amazed.


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

Cudorun said:


> If the MIDNR is concerned with CWD (which they should be) than they should ban any and all feeding of wildlife! Even feeding birds. But I do understand how influential the Audubon Soc. is in the state of MI. and realize how it would be impossible to do so. This case and any other case that the person wasnt caught in the act of deer hunting at or near the bait/feeder should be thrown out! Because how do you prove that the accussed purpose of the feeder was to feed deer and not to feed birds, squirrels, chipmunks etc. etc. etc.
> 
> For example below is a pick of my Raccoon Feeder, Since I dont deer hunt any where near it, how would a WCO. prove that its not just a Raccoon Feeder? Especially since I love these little cute, furry creatures soooo much!!
> And also love spending a ton of $$$ of money feeding them every year.  Pike


That's a pretty neat picture. One time my wife and I cleaned a freezer out of a huge pile of freezer burned meat and took it to our farm. After setting up the game cam, we set the pile of goodies out and came back a week later. In one shot, sorry not digital, we caught 7 coyotes. The person who was really amazed was the lady behind the counter at CVS who processed them.:wink:


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## Doty Bumb (Apr 9, 2010)

The baiting ban has not been overturned, get the real scoop click on the link.

http://www.michiganoutofdoors.com/video-channel/1


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## d3ue3ce (Jul 2, 2009)

The baiting issue has not, but the Feeding ban as of right now is overturned. . At first there was talk of it only being Otsego county, But the judge overturned an MCL (michigan compiled law). . so it is a state effect until something farther happens. . The DNR has not made an attempt to appeal it as of yet. .


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## d3ue3ce (Jul 2, 2009)

from the DNR's facebook page. . a question and response. . 


Here's a post off DNR Facebook page and reply.

"Attention DNR personnel as a member of The Michigan Wildlife and Business Association, Michigan News & Views and Michigan DNR watchdog. The citizens of the State of Michigan want to know how soon there will be an official comment from the DNRE regarding baiting and recreational feeding in the State of Michigan.

I have received over a dozen e-mails and phone calls asking if it legal in the State of Michigan to bait. Along with a call from a State Representatives Office! With the media headlines reading “State baiting ban overturned” citizens need to know if the baiting ban has been overturned.

Citizens are under the belief of the media and are going out and baiting or recreation feeding due to the 87th District Court Judge Patricia Morse declared "this Court finds that MCL 324.40101(9)(a) is ...unconstitutionally vague and declines to enforce it."

We the people who are not attorneys need clarification on this ruling. I personally feel without one, citizens all over the State are starting to bait and recreational feed again as of April 7, 2010. This is an official notice of this issue and possibly if anyone gets a ticket or citation after April 7, 2010 it could be viewed as entrapment! 

ANSWER

Mary Dettloff

There will be an official comment when we have thoroughly reviewed our legal options and decided on what path we want to take. This is not some conspiracy to create some sort of entrapment issue, for heaven sakes. We cannot answer what the order means yet because we are reviewing our options related to it. Once we have decided on a course of action... See More, it will be announced. Is it legal to bait? We can't answer that until we have considered our legal options. Please bear with us. This sort of thing takes time, research and thorough discussion. And, Ms. White, if you want to debate with me, friend me on here and we can debate on my personal Facebook page. This is not the purpose of this page. This thread will be removed if this continues.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/midnr?ref=ts


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## XSTREEMCC (Apr 5, 2008)

3children said:


> The way things are here, if I leave the apples under my tree, and have 3-9deer eating a bite and dropping it, only for the next to pick it up and take a bite, drop it and the next. Thats legal!!!! But if I take those same apples and throw them in the field, thats baiting!! What's wrong with this picture? I have said it once, when I first moved to this state, found I have to wear a license in the back, that who in their right mind would come up with that? I guess the same person/person's that outlawed hunting from a tree stand with a firearm. I for one am glad some things are changing, like those two laws. I am in favor of 6pts or above to get the deer herd to go, but when I suggest it, I get ugly looks. I also believe a "only 1 gallon of bait" rule. I know some believe in the dump truck theory, the more bait the more deer. BTW I too have witnessed the beer in the bean field, to the tune of 30-50+deer, but when a deer eats a bean, its gone. But how about the corn, some deer will eat a little and the next will eat more, and the next, so on. I have witnessed the hunting of deer with a .22 rimfire on opening day of bow season. I called the DNR about this when I got home. Told them where, who, license plate, truck model, how many hunters and the amount of deer they took. I was told that by the time they get there they will probably be gone! Didn't even get off the couch!!


Michigan is full of morons running it that is why I am getting out three weeks in fact moving to the great state of Ill.


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## d3ue3ce (Jul 2, 2009)

XSTREEMCC said:


> Michigan is full of morons running it that is why I am getting out three weeks in fact moving to the great state of Ill.


More deer and more land for us! why wait 3 weeks?! Go sooner so there are more turkey opportunities for us!


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## jrip (May 19, 2008)

Our local CO told the local pro shop owner that feeding and baiting deer is allowed this year. The pro shop owner asked him about it specifically because of this ruling. Who know we will so how it turns out.


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## DenCMSC (Jul 30, 2007)

The baiting and recreational feeding ban never really made sense to me anyways. We basically followed the example of Wisconsin, which was proven to NOT work. Baiting and recreational feeding really doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the overall picture, as far as "nose to nose" contact, or "saliva mixing", or whatever theory of transmitting disease is being used. Deer sleep together, travel together, eat (in woodlots full of acorns and browse, in corn fields, in hay fields.....), and they are social animals in general, sniffing each other as a "greeting". It would have been more productive for the DNR to post signs telling the deer to not do these things. For the record, I am neither for or against baiting, but did really enjoy recreational feeding. Personally, I hope the ban is totally overturned. We can get a better, healthier heard by subscribing to the QDMA train of thought than we can by not allowing bait. One buck, 4 points or better on a side. Earn a buck where does need thinning, along with the liberal antlerless permits. Education on aging a live deer, and so on....


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## Catdaddy SC (Apr 30, 2009)

They will copy the SC upstate law. It bans hunting over bait and baiting for the purpose of hunting, but allows feeding.


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