# Kisik Lee Style GRIP / Putty Grip?



## Kendric_Hubbard (Feb 5, 2015)

Kisik lee describes how to shape your grip in "Total Archery"


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

Jager grip: $50
JB Waterweld: $6

For me its a simple math problem.


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Seattlepop said:


> For me its a simple math problem.


It always is, but what variables do you put into the equation and which do you leave out.
In your equation I'm missing the certainty of a good grip outcome and the time spend shaping instead of practicing shooting.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

ThomVis said:


> It always is, but what variables do you put into the equation and which do you leave out.
> In your equation I'm missing the certainty of a good grip outcome and the time spend shaping instead of practicing shooting.


I remember similar threads years ago. At the time I knew darn well that I didn't know enough about grips to build one up from scratch. Buying a Jager grip was the way to go for me. These days, I know more of the feel I'm comfortable with, and know that I just can't do the full high wrist grip without spraining my wrist, and I'm more likely to mod with epoxy. (Still not giving up the Jager grip, though... :embara: )


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## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

Found this on Google awhile back, this should get you startd in the right direction.









Also check out Coach Kim's video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdoQ0T3kLWk


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh3SKZclg9A - John


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> However, people who have been on Team USA say that the Jager grips aren't the shape that they use.


LOL. Maybe not anymore. 

My how times have changed.


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Original Jager BEST (high) of Jager BEST 2.0 medium/low?
I have both, but the high grips are in the drawer somewhere.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

This is sort of a hot button for me, and my students know it.

Years ago, we didn't have all these options and tweaks. One of the best bare bow shooters in my old club often said that he never customized a bow. It was just cheaper to make him fit the bow, than the other way around. The real difference is that the former forces the shooter to actually know what he's doing, rather than trying to make a "perfect" fit - which most of the time is being done by people who don't really know what they need. In effect, I really do think that the archers of 40+ years ago were actually "better" shooters than the current crop of "instant fix" types we have today. I've been shooting the same riser with factory grip for the last 10 years. Whether "it" works, or I've grown into it is moot. It fits and it ain't getting changed (and yes, it took some time to figure out how to come to grips with it...

Back to the OP's question, before you start modifying anything, do you really know what you're trying to achieve? The "bondo" modifications have to be done with the "I wish the grip were a little more" idea and not trying to fit some kind of mold that some guy used at the last Olympics or some "coach" says you should use. Like I said before, most of these things become non-issues when you actually learn how to shoot. 

Tom - after trying the Jager grips on a number of occasions - with the same painful results, I finally sold mine last year. 

Viper1 out.


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## c365 (May 15, 2013)

True Viper1, seems nowadays there's a lot of trying to make the equipment fit the shooter perfectly without any change on the shooters part to fit the equipment.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

When you're satisfied to shoot 300's at 70 meters, then grip fit isn't going to be that important. I agree with that. When you're trying to break 320, it becomes very important, and when you're trying to break 340, it's critical.

It all depends on one's level of proficiency.


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## Cuthbert (Nov 28, 2005)

Been reading through comments on this one and find it interesting that I hear from both sides of the aisle on this. Some people say my grips are too wide, while others say they are too narrow. They say they are too high and too low as well. I also know that I have a really high number of return customers. It is really not possible to be everything to everyone. I make a grip that has what I think are important features for achieving more repeatable results based on my observations of successful shooters and coaching techniques. As shooters develop confidence and preferences, they tend to modify these grips. I sell them with and without the palm pad. Most of the ones without are shooters that want a grip that can easily be modified because it is cast solid out of a material that is easy to hone to any shape desired. In the end, I've yet to hear of a geometry that everybody wants. If anyone figures it out, please contact me!

Paul


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Paul -

You make a great product, but like you said, it can't fit everybody. 
While the idea (design) is sound, the original version was actually painful to shoot after a few ends. 
Also not a fan of being "told" how to place my hand on the bow, which is what the design tries to do.
The guy I sold it to is still using it. 

On the other hand, the one (I believe you made for the older DAS Elite) fits like a glove.

Viper1 out.


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

Cuthbert said:


> Been reading through comments on this one and find it interesting that I hear from both sides of the aisle on this. Some people say my grips are too wide, while others say they are too narrow. They say they are too high and too low as well. I also know that I have a really high number of return customers. It is really not possible to be everything to everyone. I make a grip that has what I think are important features for achieving more repeatable results based on my observations of successful shooters and coaching techniques. As shooters develop confidence and preferences, they tend to modify these grips. I sell them with and without the palm pad. Most of the ones without are shooters that want a grip that can easily be modified because it is cast solid out of a material that is easy to hone to any shape desired. In the end, I've yet to hear of a geometry that everybody wants. If anyone figures it out, please contact me!
> 
> Paul


Well, I have to say I'm really fond of my Jager BEST grip, even though I don't shoot it anymore. I love the quality, and the grippy palm surface. And it taught me that the BEST wrist position causes me to sprain my wrist. If I'd built up a grip on my own, I might have thought I'd done something wrong with the grip design, but since the BEST grip was a "best" in class grip at the time, made to reflect the current trend in grips at the OTC (regardless of what they say now) I could be sure that it is the general geometry of a high wrist grip that doesn't work for me, not some error in grip creation my part. 

I really should pass it along to someone who prefers high wrist grip, but the Jager grip was one of my first really good pieces of kit. Kind of hard to let it go :embara:


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> This is sort of a hot button for me, and my students know it.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to say that this was one of the most enjoyable posts I have read in a long time. I totally agree with every bit.


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

I have been using the Jager 2.0 for over a year now. I love the geometry, the angled edge makes it easy to find the same grip position every time. However, these days I feel like at 70m, the grip is too low. I end up with too much pressure on the bottom of my hand, sometimes causing my bow to "pop up" after the shot. That could just be a problem with my technique. But think about pro bowling. A pro bowler will not change their throw to achieve different results, they change their ball. Once you have achieved good form, you want to keep it. Rather than altering your form which is already getting results, altering the gear allows you to keep your form the same (or close to it). So you might be getting an order from me for a BEST high grip soon paul


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

I just don't know why people wouldn't "mess" with their gear. If you want to try something... do it. If something bothers you... change it. Maybe you will come up with a great innovation, maybe you will find something that works for you, maybe you will just find a few dozen things that didn't, but you will know yourself and your gear better in the end.

Cheers


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Ten_Zen said:


> I have been using the Jager 2.0 for over a year now. I love the geometry, the angled edge makes it easy to find the same grip position every time. However, these days I feel like at 70m, the grip is too low. I end up with too much pressure on the bottom of my hand, sometimes causing my bow to "pop up" after the shot. That could just be a problem with my technique. But think about pro bowling. A pro bowler will not change their throw to achieve different results, they change their ball. Once you have achieved good form, you want to keep it. Rather than altering your form which is already getting results, altering the gear allows you to keep your form the same (or close to it). So you might be getting an order from me for a BEST high grip soon paul


Ok that explains it. I was having trouble getting the arrows DOWN from the top of the target at 50 meters no matter what I did what my sight and my coach suggested I might be "heeling" the bow -- pressing too much with the heel of my hand. I use a low grip. There could be other factors at play but that one definitely sounds like it has merit.


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

I've run the gamut, and definitely put in some time and good scores with Paul's grips, both stock and modified
I have done epoxy / sugru buildups as well:








My coach has slowly worked my grips lower, and with a deeper throat:








and as my form has improved its just settled in nicely. I know this wasn't specific to the KSL query, but just thought I'd say there's light at the end of the grip tunnel


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

Hey, all those grips are backwards... :wink:


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## Ten_Zen (Dec 5, 2010)

StarDog said:


> Ok that explains it. I was having trouble getting the arrows DOWN from the top of the target at 50 meters no matter what I did what my sight and my coach suggested I might be "heeling" the bow -- pressing too much with the heel of my hand. I use a low grip. There could be other factors at play but that one definitely sounds like it has merit.


Well, the sight should definitely still move your group, but an inconsistent palm pressure will cause that group to widen vertically. Vertical deviance is definitely an indicator, but the bow popping upwards before it drops is a dead give away that you heeled the bow. If the center of mass is in front of the bow (as it should be for an oly setup), it should pop straight out and then roll forward. Popping up means that the force "vector" (palm to bow) was aligned beneath the center of mass. Kind of like hitting a cueball with bottom english (not sure if that is the correct terminology), the forward face of the ball moves upwards.


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## StarDog (Feb 17, 2007)

Ten_Zen said:


> Well, the sight should definitely still move your group, but an inconsistent palm pressure will cause that group to widen vertically. Vertical deviance is definitely an indicator, but the bow popping upwards before it drops is a dead give away that you heeled the bow. If the center of mass is in front of the bow (as it should be for an oly setup), it should pop straight out and then roll forward. Popping up means that the force "vector" (palm to bow) was aligned beneath the center of mass. Kind of like hitting a cueball with bottom english (not sure if that is the correct terminology), the forward face of the ball moves upwards.


Everything was lovely at 10 and 15 yards in the backyard today -- Friday back outdoors and I will see if being aware of that solves the problem. Yesterday was the first time that every happened.


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## lizard (Jul 4, 2003)

IMHO, the grips on ALL the bows are not right!

There is one guy, "First 1300," who has taught me how to build a proper grip.

If wood, use wood putty.

If plastic use bondo.

Get a palm sander, which looks like an iron, and build it up then sand accordingly, until you get your perfect fit.

I wish those who have consulted with the World Archery Athlete of the Century, would LISTEN TO HIM and develop a "standard grip" that people can alter without too much ado.

Loesch grips are pretty good, but they need personal tweaking to make it fit YOUR hand.

Tweak and sand away!

LIZARD


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## Fist429 (May 20, 2013)

I recently had a consultation with my old pal DP. Built a new pair of grips about a month ago. If done properly pressure point does not change even if you heel a shot. Thanks to DP for fielding my late night texts.


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## archeryal (Apr 16, 2005)

I suspect that your mysterious friend, DP, knows a thing or two about everything archery. I heard that he worked with Hoyt, way back when, to see what effect rain and a wet grip had, and if they should redesign their grip with this in mind. They used a squirt gun on his hand as he shot, and there was no change between wet and dry - at least when he was shooting, as I heard the story. 

I'd be interested in seeing some phots of your DP-approved grip.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

archeryal - 

We used to use Vaseline on the grip to let the hand seat where it wanted.
There are less messy tricks, but that one was memorable.

Viper1 out.


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## mahgnillig (Aug 3, 2014)

Do bow manufacturers ever have grip exhibitions at events? It would be really cool to be able to try a bunch out to decide what fits your particular hand the best. Personally I don't feel that my grip really fits my hand all that well (I have tiny hands), but I wouldn't really know where to start with making one. Maybe I should just buy a tub of bondo and a spare grip and start experimenting, but it would be nice to know what feel I'm trying to get to with it, which is something I'm not really going to know without trying some other grips out.


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

Viper1 said:


> We used to use Vaseline on the grip to let the hand seat where it wanted.
> There are less messy tricks, but that one was memorable.


Vaseline may be less messy than the dish washing soap I used to test mine.....


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## Warbow (Apr 18, 2006)

ThomVis said:


> Vaseline may be less messy than the dish washing soap I used to test mine.....


Hmm...surely there are some waterbased solutions? :embara:

Or maybe just Teflon grip tape?


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## kshet26 (Dec 20, 2010)

I've heard people use a cotton glove to achieve the same effect without the mess. The grip has to be smooth though.


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