# ASA suggestions for 2014 lets hear them



## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

The classic is all we have left. ASA is by far the best Archery Org. Everything and everyone is fun..(except me of course).

I'd like to see the ASA change their rules by reverting to their initial speed and distance rules. Of 280 / 45 yard max for open A and above.

returning to 45 yd max:
I feel that it would help relieve some of the stress for the ASA staff during shoots regarding ranges. More classes could share ranges, less worrying about max for each class. EX. Ranges A,B,C,D are usually used by the Pro down to open A....Open A has a 45 max. When their range is shot, somebody has to make some changes for them to be within the rules.
Another benefit:
The ASA could really flip-flop, switch up range, assignments for the 2nd day of shooting...Do not announce it till Sunday morning...Surprise!

280 speed: if fast enough, especially with a 45yd max. that's a speed that is more easily obtainable for everyone than it was 15 yrs ago. 

IBO/ASA are now regionally divided. Different targets, different everything...Its a different game


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

Why the 280 why not stay the 290


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

As I stated, a return to their roots... 280 is more fair for everyone than 290 is. There are some with itty bitty arms




Luv2shoot3D said:


> Why the 280 why not stay the 290


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## ben911 (Sep 3, 2012)

why limit speed,give class for no limit speed.
same for crossbow rule no limit speed ,is 2014 rules not 1995


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Get rid of speed limit all together in the known classes.....i think they may gain a few shooters, especially in the early part of the season or possibly Kentucky 

Get better targets! Was told by an open pro that during a meeting when questioned on why the more angled targets this year the reason being to reduce pass throughs.

Heard McKenzie was supposed be out there again last week trying to figure out targets....not sure why they would want them to last longer. Seems they got a good money maker going on

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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

More ranges no more than 4 to a stake...

Practice bags need to be ran by tournament official, bring back the time limit and start asking people to leave that stand at 20 and shoot at the 40 yard bales. And no one needs to shoot 15 arrows each time at the bags. 4 arrow maximum then get your stool that is already in everyone's way and move so other people can warm up!!!

Move the London shoot from the horrible place ! 

Mike is eating good this year hope some things change next year.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

I love the London location


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Garceau said:


> Get rid of speed limit all together in the known classes.....i think they may gain a few shooters, especially in the early part of the season or possibly Kentucky
> 
> Get better targets! Was told by an open pro that during a meeting when questioned on why the more angled targets this year the reason being to reduce pass throughs.
> 
> ...


Yes better targets and lower the price of a used range that is shot to crap!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

J Whittington said:


> I love the London location


Is is 2 hours from my house and I hate it....

Power line - SUCKS
Practice Range- is a Joke
Sims Range- Black hole

The number of shooters have out grown the site


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

4 to a stake sounds good to me!

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## boweng (Aug 7, 2006)

I'm a pretty go with the flow kind of fellow. The only thing that gets my gander up is to be standing on London's powerline shooting when the pros drive by stirring up the dust and making tons of racket. Not even considering the one idiot who was blaring music.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

boweng said:


> I'm a pretty go with the flow kind of fellow. The only thing that gets my gander up is to be standing on London's powerline shooting when the pros drive by stirring up the dust and making tons of racket. Not even considering the one idiot who was blaring music.


You dont have to worry about Melvin anymore.....he got himself banned for that was what i was told by one of his sponsors that received a letter stating such

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## PFD42 (Mar 31, 2011)

Being my 1st year I can't complain. I enjoyed London even if it was a 10hr drive, W. Monroe was great an only 1.5hrs away. Hate to loose W.Monroe. I loved the weather in Metropolis and hate I missed Paris. I'm an openC guy so going from 5-6 people per stake to 3 at Met. Was awesome, we moved along quickly . I can only complain about the dark targets turning brown and unable to see lines on those shot up brown blobs. Overall I've had a great expierence


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Anyone hear where we are going instead of w. Monroe?

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

1. Bring the 14 back for k45/50 at minimum. 

2. Delta needs to get it together or ASA needs to go to Rhinehart. 

3. The 3d practice ranges need to be expanded. Its getting to where you can't shoot them for waiting in line and when you finally do, they're trashed.... See #1.

4. I'm all for lifting the speed limit in the Known classes. I'll keep shooting in the 270's. If somebody wants to shoot 350, let them but see #1.

5. Though I avoid the bags, they are overpopulated badly. Time to expand them too.... oh and if you go back to Morrell's it would be a good thing. 

6. Switch the ranges around. Pros shouldn't shoot the same ranges year after year. 

7. Did I mention to jerk a knot in Delta? 

8. The shoot time modifications are getting hard to manage for groups traveling together. There are now Friday times, 3-4 Saturday times and Sunday. I don't think its a long term answer to the growth.

Just my opinion....

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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> 1. Bring the 14 back for k45/50 at minimum.
> 
> 2. Delta needs to get it together or ASA needs to go to Rhinehart.
> 
> ...


Like all your ideas!!! Lower the entry fee for K50 or have sponsors pay contingency...

Love the idea change the Pro Ranges every year


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Garceau said:


> Anyone hear where we are going instead of w. Monroe?
> 
> Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


Never heard they were leaving?


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

cenochs said:


> Never heard they were leaving?


Yeah hear that from someone in the know, wonder if/when it will be confirmed.

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

cenochs said:


> Like all your ideas!!! Lower the entry fee for K50 or have sponsors pay contingency...


I'm not sure what the answer is there. The class seems to be growing and on pace to grow some more. With the better attendance it pays deeper and a little better so I don't think I'd vote for a reduced entry at this point.... I would love some insight on a mid term goal or plan for the Known game from Mike T or to just get a glimpse in some peoples heads about it. 

I do think "known pro" is coming. At that point k50 probably becomes a true semi-pro transition after k45. We probably won't see much manufacturer contingency before that day. I'm very thankful that Bee Stinger and Gold Tip pay it now.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Take away known yardage in open classes 
Except for known 45 and 50


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## 3rdplace (Jan 3, 2004)

Go back to 280 so archers of small stature ( ie-draw length and/or weight) are on a more equal level. Just not fair to them. Also it may help the targets quit falling apart!!!!!

Bring back the turkey!


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> I'm not sure what the answer is there. The class seems to be growing and on pace to grow some more. With the better attendance it pays deeper and a little better so I don't think I'd vote for a reduced entry at this point.... I would love some insight on a mid term goal or plan for the Known game from Mike T or to just get a glimpse in some peoples heads about it.
> 
> I do think "known pro" is coming. At that point k50 probably becomes a true semi-pro transition after k45. We probably won't see much manufacturer contingency before that day. I'm very thankful that Bee Stinger and Gold Tip pay it now.
> 
> ...


Yep totally agree but something needs done, if I am thinking right K50 and Men's Pro had about the same number of shooters in Ill.

Another thing put the semi guys on the Pro Range so they can get some experience before moving up.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

wpk said:


> Take away known yardage in open classes
> Except for known 45 and 50


I could live with that idea.....

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## 4him (Jan 14, 2011)

I'd like to see a Outlaw Hunter class. 50yds max, known, w/out a speed limit, 12" front bars, and short back bars. We have that class in my area and it has brought out alot of guys who wouldn't compete before.


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## josechno (Sep 20, 2007)

I heard there were 3 options for the W. Monroe I remember 2 of them Chatanooga, and Mississippi


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## lojo (Mar 13, 2009)

Well, here goes the rumor mill, but I did hear that Tuscaloosa was the chosen site to replace Monroe. Also, improvements for 2014 --more practice bags and an ASA official to control them.


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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

lojo said:


> Well, here goes the rumor mill, but I did hear that Tuscaloosa was the chosen site to replace Monroe. Also, improvements for 2014 --more practice bags and an ASA official to control them.


That would put 3 shoots in Alabama???? never been to LA but my buddies like the shoot becuase the airport is a rocks through from the shoot . TX always has the lowest attendance ????


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

cenochs said:


> That would put 3 shoots in Alabama???? never been to LA but my buddies like the shoot becuase the airport is a rocks through from the shoot . TX always has the lowest attendance ????


Is it northern Alabama by chance.....

Tx town loves the archers i hope they keep it there

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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

cenochs said:


> Another thing put the semi guys on the Pro Range so they can get some experience before moving up.


I don't disagree that this would allow them to better prepare and compare where they are at least. 

IL 50 yard classes- 

K50- 32
Pro- 46
W. pro- 28
Sr. Pro- 65
Semi- 64
Unlimited- 22

It looks like it would all fit on two ranges right now anyway.... 

I would hate to see LA go..... especially if it goes east. Its my favorite for many reasons. 

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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

J Whittington said:


> As I stated, a return to their roots... 280 is more fair for everyone than 290 is. There are some with itty bitty arms


Hey I resemble that remark!


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## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

lojo said:


> Well, here goes the rumor mill, but I did hear that Tuscaloosa was the chosen site to replace Monroe next a. Also, improvements for 2014 --more practice bags and an ASA official to control them.


Tuscaloosa site is correct..really sucks for us shooters west of Mississippi


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

ba3darcher said:


> Tuscaloosa site is correct..really sucks for us shooters west of mississipiq


Dang it man!

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## cenochs (May 2, 2007)

Another change I would like to see is stop using money to move people out of a class Unless there is a set payout amount for each class for each Pro Am before the event starts

The problem using money is each pro am the number of archers in a given class fluctuates and so does payout. If payout isn't consistent then using money to move people out of class is really smoke and mirrors.

A point system should be used to be more consistent and fair.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

The 290 speed was a test this year....the status data has not beenfinalized. AS of yet....but I'm sure in oct we a will know the 2014 rules...


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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

Go to 290 no 3%.


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

schmel_me said:


> Go to 290 no 3%.


This would be nice


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Just rambling....

As said above the 290 fps is in test mode. I'm Super Senior so 280 fps for me and I can't really complain. But then the shot up targets, who shot them out, the 280 fps classes or the 290 fps classes? Of the IBO people, how's the Rineharts been holding up?

If a speed class were to come into being max yardage should be at least 50 yards. And the thing is, if people want a speed class then they should prove they are shooting a speed bow - 300 fps. minimum. You don't take the family SUV to a Double A Fueler race.

Again, Super Senior and then I shoot club 3Ds where 45 yards is the norm for some targets and 50 yards a real possibility. Heck, I like stretching the my bow once in a while. And it's much the same across the board for all shooters, 45 yards and maybe 50 for even those in Bow Novice and Open C. So why not 45 yards at least for Open C?

cenochs brought up pay and points. There's been enough events held to come up with average payout, so a base scale pay out could be incorporated. If not, then points. And then I've often wondered; Of states that move out shooters on number of Qualifier wins or a State Champion win, how many have protested this if way under the move out limit and shooting a national? I went through this once. Bow Novice winning something of less than $30 and taking Champion by default. He was moved out and I protested. He was returned to Bow Novice.


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## Spiked2kx (Mar 3, 2013)

Come out west. Like west of Texas. That's all I got. Doubt it will ever happen but I can hope right?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

if they delete west monroe and move closer to the center of the southeastern area of the u.s. (like atlanta?) they will be doing a disservice to asa members from louisiana and the area within a few hours driving of west monroe. i wouldn't want to be the guy trying to decide where to put these shoots...


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## Babyk (Jul 5, 2011)

West Monroe is a great site I think and they seem to work hard to have it in good shape.....if ASA leaves West Monroe that will be sad

Flight classes after the 1st day......make payouts for lower flighted classes much lower but still give guys a chance to win some cash bacj, set uo system similar to what the pro class has in place right now


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

I won't hurt my feelings for the LA shoot to be gone. Yes the range was nice but the town and water was terrible.


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## jbuckles39 (Jan 25, 2010)

I heard Tuscaloosa was the replacement. Only time will tell. Someone dropped the ball in IL! Letting shooters from different classes shot on unknown ranges that have known range cards running around and visa-versa! Wasnt right!


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I do think a non speed limit for Known classes would bring a lot more shooters to it. I know of several guys locally that the only reason they don't participate in the ASA shoots is because they refuse to change their setup just to shoot one or two big tournaments a year. They shoot the local 3D shoots with their hunting setup, minus broadheads. There's no telling how many people like that are out there. Otherwise, it don't make any difference because it's all known yardage. One local guy has been at the top of K45 all year this year...he won K45 in LA and has been in the top 10 in all of them he's shot this year. His bow is slinging arrows at a scorching 250 fps. From what I understand, there are several guys like that, that are under 270 fps in Known classes and do extremely well. So the only thing it would really do is potentially gain more shooters...which is a good thing for growing the ASA numbers. Some guys may not want to shoot the entire circuit but may be willing to drive a couple hrs to one of these shoots per year...just to see what it's like. So you can't blame them for not wanting to change everything on their bow just to meet speed limit restrictions for one weekend. 

Otherwise...I'm still an ASA newbie myself. I've only shot 3 Pro/Ams and the Classic will be my 4th. I do like a reduced number of shooters on the stakes...the Classic last yr was my first Pro/Am and we had 5 shooters to most stakes...and it was very slow, despite having time limits. In Florida, we had 3 to a stake and I really liked that...had 4 to a stake in KY and that wasn't so bad either. I'm not a fan of shooting all 40 targets in one day though. The actual physical part of shooting 40 targets wasn't bad...it was the waiting around time that made it not fun. I will probably get pounced on...but I would like to see an arrow size restriction. Say 22-23 size be the max diameter. IMO it is those Triple X and Magnum size shafts that do more damage to the targets than speed.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Call it asa outlaws!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

jbuckles39 said:


> Letting shooters from different classes shot on unknown ranges that have known range cards running around and visa-versa! Wasnt right!


they were not ANYWHERE near each other there was targets that seperated them. rumor SQUASHED.... try again


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## shooter64 (Nov 8, 2004)

I heard the Monroe shoot was being moved for safety reasons. I don't see how that can be true. It's a great location and one the few where you don't get gouged by the area hotels.


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## speciii (Dec 28, 2008)

shooter64 said:


> I heard the Monroe shoot was being moved for safety reasons. I don't see how that can be true. It's a great location and one the few where you don't get gouged by the area hotels.


My son had heard they are logging out the back part of the poperty.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

How's about "Shoot Whatcha Brings"? ESPECIALLY on the KNOWN classes? Score is score, regardless of equipment used to shoot it! Of course, that wouldn't include broadheads, or something to aid holding the bow up or holding the bow at full draw, or crossbows, ha. Come to think of it, however...why NOT have a Crossbow division?

I've often thought that being able to shoot whatever you bring would be a good way to go.


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## jbuckles39 (Jan 25, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> they were not ANYWHERE near each other there was targets that seperated them. rumor SQUASHED.... try again


I didnt say they were close together. What I was saying I knew people who shot on the G range where it was their known and I shot H range which was my known range. Their H was unknown and my G unknown. How does that keep your non honest people from cheating? Everyone Ive spoke to as of far has thought that should never happen what so ever. I know the shoot stakes were not moved cause I was sitting at the front of my range when the hunters walked off. Its not a rumor! Its my first hand experiance!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

field14 said:


> Come to think of it, however...why NOT have a Crossbow division?
> QUOTE]
> 
> did you not have your coffee yet? They have had a crossbow class for a few years now. (ASA) and now into Regions.


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## hoytviper06 (Jan 21, 2009)

The Banjo music lightened the mood in my group



boweng said:


> I'm a pretty go with the flow kind of fellow. The only thing that gets my gander up is to be standing on London's powerline shooting when the pros drive by stirring up the dust and making tons of racket. Not even considering the one idiot who was blaring music.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

hoytviper06 said:


> The Banjo music lightened the mood in my group


Yes that guy had zero respect for his fellow archers 
And what was worse was none of the other pros or the range officers said or did anything about it


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

jbuckles39 said:


> I didnt say they were close together. What I was saying I knew people who shot on the G range where it was their known and I shot H range which was my known range. Their H was unknown and my G unknown. How does that keep your non honest people from cheating? Everyone Ive spoke to as of far has thought that should never happen what so ever. I know the shoot stakes were not moved cause I was sitting at the front of my range when the hunters walked off. Its not a rumor! Its my first hand experiance!


A good fix might be to get rid of known distance outside the all known classes. 

Echo....echo.....echo

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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

bhtr3d said:


> field14 said:
> 
> 
> > Come to think of it, however...why NOT have a Crossbow division?
> ...


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

bhtr3d said:


> they were not ANYWHERE near each other there was targets that seperated them. rumor SQUASHED.... try again


I know for a fact that some of the open C guys were walking around the course while the hunter class was shooting. The hunter class was shooting their known round while open c was waiting to shoot their unknown round.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

wpk said:


> Yes that guy had zero respect for his fellow archers
> And what was worse was none of the other pros or the range officers said or did anything about it


Thats not true at all..... he was approached, conversation didnt go well into Melvin's favor.

Melvin is no longer allowed at any ASA events.....so to say nothing was done about it is a flat out falsehood.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

outbackarcher said:


> I know for a fact that some of the open C guys were walking around the course while the hunter class was shooting. The hunter class was shooting their known round while open c was waiting to shoot their unknown round.


This just me speaking, but your not going to stop people from coming onto the ranges.....but they are not supossose to write, record information...
To the issue about known w/unknown on the same range...my reply may have been to fast to judgement....mostly because I know the k45 open b. Had a mixing on those that shot all on sat....but there wasn't an issue though...


To field..... to answer that question....a lot of the reasons was do to insurances and land owners ...but with the changing of the product through time...the mfg....and dnrs...its slowly gained a small following.


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## Uzurmnd247 (Jun 1, 2009)

How about every body shooting bows that are 28" and less and only use 60#'s and less. That will save the targets! Kind of like the car race where every body uses the same car. I think it was called the (IROC )Now it's the Driver who has to perform not the bow. Bring the 14's into play then. How many will be shooting at them?


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## LU E LU I (Mar 29, 2003)

I have one suggestion for the Metropolis Pro Shoot Off. They need to move it out if that little fenced in area where it is hard for anyone to see especially when they put the targets behind trees.Move it out in the open and put a few bleachers for the folks to relax and enjoy after a long day of shooting. Whatching through the fence was not fun...and hard to see...


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Personally.......

I would make slight changes to the Open classes....

Open C.....all known
Open B.....half/half
Open A.....all unknown
K 45......of course all known.

That would give folks a logical progression as they move up. After B they would decide to take the all unknown or all known route..........


It is in the rules now that folks are not supposed to be on ranges that they will be shooting for competition prior to actually shooting their round on that course. Does it happen? Of course. If folks know it is going on they need to bring it to the attention of Mike T......


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

LU E LU I said:


> I have one suggestion for the Metropolis Pro Shoot Off. They need to move it out if that little fenced in area where it is hard for anyone to see especially when they put the targets behind trees.Move it out in the open and put a few bleachers for the folks to relax and enjoy after a long day of shooting. Whatching through the fence was not fun...and hard to see...


X2 on this very hard to see the shooters and targets


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## 300MAG (Nov 26, 2005)

I think that Asa should supply more 3d practice targets. Expand from 30 to 40 or 50 targets.
Open a should be back to 50 yd max
Open b all unknown 45 yd max
Open c half known/unknown
Known 50 a pro class
280 speed limit again. 
And delta get their heads out from between their but cheeks and get the targets back to better quality. Otherwise switch to Rhineharts.


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## bowhunter153246 (Jul 17, 2009)

I talked to Mike T at Metropolis. He confirmed that the monroe shoot is gone due to safety issues with the shoot sight that they could not resolve. He did not elaborate on the reasoning. All rumors that I have heard is that it is being moved to Tuscaloosa, AL. I live in central, AR and I do not mind traveling to shoots. I attended every ASA this year except Florida. I missed it due to work schedule. I really do not mind traveling but it seems that ASA does not appreciate those who are dedicated to the their shoots that live in our part of the country (texas, oklahoma, arkansas, louisiana). The only shoot we have within 5 hours of us now is Paris. They got rid of the shoot in Louisiana where the hotels actually are somewhat reasonable during shoot weekends and kept the shoot in Texas where the hotels spike their prices to over double what they normally are the weekend of the shoot (texas) and had the lowest attendence this year. It comes to a point where you either decide to shell out all the travel money or decide that ASA does'nt seem to value their shooters in the western states since they are moving all the shoots farther east. I realize its a tough job to decide where to shoot and you cant make everyone happy its just frustrating when you live in our area where some of the largest state ASA support and they are steadily moving the national shoots farther away.


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## boweng (Aug 7, 2006)

Uzurmnd247 said:


> How about every body shooting bows that are 28" and less and only use 60#'s and less. That will save the targets! Kind of like the car race where every body uses the same car. I think it was called the (IROC )Now it's the Driver who has to perform not the bow. Bring the 14's into play then. How many will be shooting at them?


Can't get behind this one. I'd have to cut half my arm off to get to 28". I think the speed limit addresses both details you mention and allows for the greatest number of shooters. I'd even go along with a slower speed limit if it made it easier for smaller stature people to compete on the same level as us knuckle draggers.


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## Crow Terminator (Jan 21, 2003)

I was on the range shooting when the guy came by with the music playing in KY. It didn't bother me at all but I did want to go talk to him....to find out what the name of the group was that he was playing so I could get one of their CDs! I thought they sounded pretty good but I am a bluegrass gospel fan. I actually shot three 12s after he came by cause it did lighten the mood and lifted my spirits a bit. I was bothered more by the dust that they all kicked into the air than by the music.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Across the board problems:
- The practice bags are usually overly crowded and poorly organized.
- The 3d practice ranges have long waits at times. The targets are pretty much shot out Saturday afternoon.
- The Delta\McKenzie targets hold up poorly. Too many brand *new* black targets quickly have very visible light brown areas in the 10 ring from just a few hits. Kind of ridiculous to make a black 3D target that after a half dozen shots becomes a "spot" target. Rinehart targets are vastly superior to the Delta/McKenzie stuff. The older model McKenzie targets were much better than what is being produced now. Makes no sense to me why the ASA has let the Delta/McKenzie folks stick us with an inferior product.

Venues:
- The London, KY layout needs to be improved. From day one the SIMS range has been avoided by many archers. The stakes on the power line ranges should be put into the woods or the ranges moved. I love the venue but some things should and could be improved without a drastic amount of work. It's time for improvements!!! 

- The Classic site in Culman, Alabama is definitely nice! It was new last year so I hope this year the lanes are vastly improved. 

- Better shuttle service for the oldest class would be nice.


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## rs3711 (May 1, 2008)

When shooting the practice bags, everyone should have to move their chairs and bows back after they shoot. When pull is called, move your chair and bow back. No saving a place for the next round. This could be monitored by an official. Or even better, no chairs allowed on the line. Put your arrows in your back pocket. Somebody said a maximum of four shots. That would be ok.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

the downside of the Cullman site this year is that the motels jacked up the prices as much as 50%...from $98 a night to $149...we moved out of town about 10 miles.


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

Garceau said:


> Thats not true at all..... he was approached, conversation didnt go well into Melvin's favor.
> 
> Melvin is no longer allowed at any ASA events.....so to say nothing was done about it is a flat out falsehood.


I was talking about the time he road all the way back that way they should have stopped him at the bottom of the hill


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## bowsrd (Jan 15, 2012)

They really need to move the start times on Saturday to 12:00 instead of 11:00. It is really hard to walk with your kids for the morning shoot and then be ready for the 11:00 start. It use to be 12:00, why did they change?


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## jrober4 (May 28, 2008)

I hate to see the Louisiana site go if the rumors are true. also 3 shoots in alabama is a bit extreme (again if the rumors are true). 
The bag targets are a problem. as suggested above have it monitored or they could even double the number of bags and place them in 2 seperate areas.
The practice range is a problem. I would like to shoot this but never do because of the long lines. Maybe they could also double the number of these targets and place them in 2 seperate areas. the least they could do is monitor it where groups don't shoot 5 arrows apeice at each target, or stand on the other side of the road and shoot 50 yard shots across the road on the 30 yard range where my wife is shooting.


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## vabowdog (Dec 13, 2007)

Quit rushing shooters off the range....my groups are always done in 3 hours shooting 40 targets...at 10:35 the seniors crowd us on our range...I've asked them to at least stay in the road and not halfway down a lane to their stake....I pay entree fees too.

Dewayne Martin


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

You know it's not so great to be as Far East as Virginia either. Kentucky had record attendance this year and one of the most centrally located along with Illinois. Maybe asa should take the hint and move a shoot back to smith mountain lake, Tennessee, or North Carolina. 

And not to mention how biased mike is. I shot with two people in Kentucky that shot open A in the past three years. Mike told one shooter they had to wait a full tournament year before they could move down to open B. mike told the other shooter at the classic that they could shoot open b at Florida...the next tournament. That is totally unfair. 

And the new targets are a JOKE!


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

With the ASA moving from Monroe I expect to see the number go down overall. I think moving the shoot is not a good idea. Moving it from Monroe for safety reasons I can understand....but you can't tell me that there wasn't another location being in LA, Arkansas or Mississippi that could hold the shooters. I feel like it going to Alabama was a decision made to benefit the ASA (mike t) because that puts 4 shoots close to the ASA office. Bad business move IMO. 

Its been talked about for years now that ASA was leaving Monroe, its finally happened and I feel the safety comment is a excuse to move the shoot. If it wasn't a excuse the shoot wouldn't move 500+ miles away.

As far as the practice bags, there should 6 arrow limit and then the shooters pull. If they want to shoot another 6 arrows fine....but no need in shooting 2 dz arrows and holding up all the other shooters while some drag around.

Targets need to be addressed. The foam is junk. I sunk a arrow up to the fletchings on the first day! That's pathetic. Either go to rhineharts or make delta fix their issues. The targets do seem to stand better but that's the only plus I see from the start of the season.

More ranges need to be put in. ASA wants more shooters but people are getting ticked off about having to shoot all 40 in one day (k45, open b, open c, and novice). I know people that went to open b just so they didn't have to shoot all in one day. Now all of the sudden they are having to shoot them all and a lot of those guys aren't going because of that. Iv said my peace.


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## Aim-WellArcher1 (May 13, 2012)

Really don't want to see Monroe shoot move, but i agree with what was suggested to go back to Mississippi or Arkansas. Or why not in the Branson/Springfield Missouri.


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## Supermag1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Aim-WellArcher1 said:


> Really don't want to see Monroe shoot move, but i agree with what was suggested to go back to Mississippi or Arkansas. Or why not in the Branson/Springfield Missouri.


Why not in Oklahoma? If the ASA is serious about wanting to expand their market (which it really doesn't seem that they are, or really need to), getting into new areas of the country could accomplish that (especially since the new speed limit coincides perfectly with the NFAA 300 fps limit). I thought this was what regions was going to do but it turns out that was a falsehood.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

300MAG said:


> I think that Asa should supply more 3d practice targets. Expand from 30 to 40 or 50 targets.
> Open a should be back to 50 yd max
> Open b all unknown 45 yd max
> Open c half known/unknown
> ...


Nice list....

I asked and couldn't find where anyone replied of how Rineharts held up on the IBO circuit. Outdoor is one thing and indoor another. KK and I can tell you the Rineharts held up darn well at the Presley's First Annual Indoor 3D. I mean the longest target was a catty corner 34 yards and no speed limit. Presley's had 3 Qualifiers and then the Shoot Off. As many as 35 to 49, I believe shot the Qualifiers and 34 (?) shot the Shoot Off. So 160 shooters (?), BUT! Presley's had their regular 3D league going for the 4 months using the same targets of their First Annual Indoor 3D. That's a hell of a lot of shooting.....

KK, did I miss something or not get something right?


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## CMA121885 (Sep 7, 2009)

Sonny I walked the super senior range Sunday. Barry Jenkins is a shooter in that class and travel with his group. Next shoot I'd like to meet ya....put a face with your name.


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## TwentySix (Feb 25, 2011)

This is a selfish wish, but 
- all known distance for open c
and/or
- a new hunter class that allows up to a 15" front bar and 10" back bar (didn't a lot of peiple want to copy Levi Morgan's hunting set-up?) That also allows a single adjustable pin sight.


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## Hallsway (Jan 16, 2009)

3 shoots in Alabama? W. Monroe by far was my favorite shoot. I really hate to see that go. Regions is looking better and better. I'm in Indiana and I would favor a spot out west. I think that would be cool. If I had to advise on one thing for the ASA, I would tell them to buy a map, and study it in comparison to the shooters they have and the shooters they want. Then plan and organize accordingly.


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> I'm not sure what the answer is there. The class seems to be growing and on pace to grow some more. With the better attendance it pays deeper and a little better so I don't think I'd vote for a reduced entry at this point.... I would love some insight on a mid term goal or plan for the Known game from Mike T or to just get a glimpse in some peoples heads about it.
> 
> I do think "known pro" is coming. At that point k50 probably becomes a true semi-pro transition after k45. We probably won't see much manufacturer contingency before that day. I'm very thankful that Bee Stinger and Gold Tip pay it now.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2




I'm with you Tony but until Mathews is willing to support the class no other bow companies will.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

IRISH_11 said:


> I'm with you Tony but until Mathews is willing to support the class no other bow companies will.


There is more than one reason there isn't a single Mathews in the class at most tournaments.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## wpk (Jan 31, 2009)

TwentySix said:


> This is a selfish wish, but
> - all known distance for open c
> and/or
> - a new hunter class that allows up to a 15" front bar and 10" back bar (didn't a lot of peiple want to copy Levi Morgan's hunting set-up?) That also allows a single adjustable pin sight.


Why don't you shoot known 45 if you want all known 
A,b,c should be all unknown thats part of 3d is judging yardage


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> There is more than one reason there isn't a single Mathews in the class at most tournaments.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Mathews already has one of the top women in the world shooting all displines and winning....She on the US Jr world team...and won ASA this past weekend...


Dunno if that is relitive to anything of this thread...but oh well......Not like that doesn't happen LOL


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## IRISH_11 (Mar 13, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> Mathews already has one of the top women in the world shooting all displines and winning....She on the US Jr world team...and won ASA this past weekend...
> 
> 
> Dunno if that is relitive to anything of this thread...but oh well......Not like that doesn't happen LOL




We were talking about K50.


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## jbuckles39 (Jan 25, 2010)

100% Agreements
More Practice Bags ( go to morrells too )
More Practice ranges ( a long & a short )
Targets are a joke! ( go Reignhart ) ( go to a R100 and see how they still look new after! )
_______________________________________

Novice and Open C a shooter needs Graduated to the next class if a shooter gets a top two finish period.
Open C all known for it is the entry class for all the open classes
Open B 40 max half and half known
Open A 45 max all unknown
Hotels should give breaks not jack the prices up. You show me a hotel that gives the shooters a break and they are gonna be filled!
Look at every ASA members zip code and put that in a data base and generate where the masses are and accomidate them and then branch out to uncharted territories!
Get general rules for local shoots to follow without being overwhelmed.
Start a 3d school program and get kids involved! ( good morals! ) ( ASA can donate shot up ranges with cores to schools and write the whole thing off on theuir taxes! )
Need to start at the basement and build up and improve the current existing structure! No time like the present!


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## bmeese21 (Feb 13, 2009)

I shoot the ibo. The rineharts do hold up a lot better. Thats about the only advantage . Other than that the only thing I wish the asa would do is put out about 3 to 4 practice ranges in different areas. That way it wouldn't get so congested. I had to wait 1.5 hours to get on the practice range. And I think the asa would draw alot more ibo shooters if they had more shoots around kentucky area. The numbers dont lie. Why do uou think kentucky had the highest turnout. Its because they were pulling shooters from the east. I live and pa and traveled to a few shoots this year. I plan on making it to most of them next year, putting the ibo on the back burner because I think the asa is all around a better organization. I don't have to take every friday off to shoot. And I can judge Mckenzie targets.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

bmeese21 said:


> I shoot the ibo. The rineharts do hold up a lot better. .


Thank you. Now, if a few more would chime in......


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> Thank you. Now, if a few more would chime in......


Everyone I know that shoots them has said the targets are holding up much better.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

All we shoot up here.....targets last ridiculously longer.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

SonnyThomas said:


> Thank you. Now, if a few more would chime in......


REINHARTS SUCK.......have to change the whole target / height judging thing to shoot them.... didnt like them back in the early 2000.....dont like them now....

Let's shoot pottengers lines wont move


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

bhtr3d said:


> REINHARTS SUCK.......have to change the whole target / height judging thing to shoot them.... didnt like them back in the early 2000.....dont like them now....
> 
> Let's shoot pottengers lines wont move


Why do they suck?

I thought someone else posted a while back regarding the ibo deer sizes to mckenzies and they were damn close!

I cant judge yds on any of them so thats a non issue

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## SMshootsmathews (Feb 4, 2013)

The rineharts are great. I couldn't complain about anything about those targets. They reused most of the targets from spring nationals in Bedford because they hold up so much better.

I've also heard that mckenzie buys their foam from rinehart, but rinehart has more foam in the target, less air. Weigh a mckenzie mule deer and compare it to that of a rinehart.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Garceau said:


> Why do they suck?
> 
> I thought someone else posted a while back regarding the ibo deer sizes to mckenzies and they were damn close!
> 
> ...


Kevin.... its all in high perbly...joking..... shoot if ya knew what the potts targets are...you know LOL ....

I could care less about the targets I shoot them all. 
rienharts,deltas, mckenzies,r&w,longhorn....just in 3ds....

I just want to shoot


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## WilliamsTD (Oct 14, 2004)

I shot Bedord IBO this year on the Rineharts, 20 targets Friday and 20 Saturday, by the end of Saturday the targets still looked new. I shoot Male Bowhunter Open (MBO).


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> REINHARTS SUCK.......have to change the whole target / height judging thing to shoot them.... didnt like them back in the early 2000.....dont like them now....
> 
> Let's shoot pottengers lines wont move



I call :bs: 

You have to be capable of using that method of judging a targets distance for your complaint of _not_ being able to use that method to have standing! .............. Your opinion ruled IRRELEVANT! :becky:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

bhtr3d said:


> REINHARTS SUCK.......have to change the whole target / height judging thing to shoot them.... didnt like them back in the early 2000.....dont like them now....
> 
> Let's shoot pottengers lines wont move


So, if you have to "change the whole target/height judging thing" to shoot them...you are judging TARGETS and you are NOT "judging distance"....

What do you suppose would happen to your scores on 3-D if the ASA was to suddenly decide that ANY of the Rinehart OR MacKenzie targets at any tournament at any time were fair game...and nobody knew from tournament to tournament WHICH targets were going to be used? In other words, they NEVER used exactly the same 20 targets at any tournament during any given year...no announcements as to which targets were going to be used in their tournament circuit. You'll find out when you get to each one on the course. HMMMMMMM????

Not that that would ever happen, but Just sayin'.....

Personally, that is what I would like to see...no advance notice of "the test"...shoot what ya brings for equipment...and shoot whatever targets that the host decides to put out there. Then change 'em up even more during the shoot downs...so that what animals are used during the shoot downs...were NOT used on any of the courses during that particular event.

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

You can certainy tell that ASA is a successful organization and becoming more successful each year because.........

*Success Draws Criticism.*

and 

*The Bigger the Target You Become the More Shots People Take at You.*

These are facts of human nature and you guys are simply being typical humans.:shade:

My only question is this....If you want ASA to consider any of these ideas why don't you guys post them on the ASA forum? I will guarantee you that Mike *does not *read this forum. I will also guarantee that *he does read* the ASA forum. He responded to a question about target wear on the ASA forum this morning. It you want to get your ideas and suggestions to Mike post them on the ASA forum.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Tallcatt said:


> You can certainy tell that ASA is a successful organization and becoming more successful each year because.........
> 
> *Success Draws Criticism.*
> 
> ...


Not a bad idea at all. I 'might' just do that with regard to using any 20 targets selected by the tournament host at any time/given event and then changing up the shoot down so that none of the animals used during the shoot down were used during the event in question. I would imagine the idea won't be well received, however.


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## Daniel Boone (May 31, 2002)

Tallcatt said:


> You can certainy tell that ASA is a successful organization and becoming more successful each year because.........
> 
> *Success Draws Criticism.*
> 
> ...


Mike with almost 2000 views here. I think many members of ASA have a place to voice there concerns here. In the past many critics of ASA got deleted quickly on ASA forum. To say your going to get all questions answered on ASA forum is not correct. Seems if your say any negative about change it often look upon as anti ASA member which I have always felt paying members should have a right to voice there concerns.
DB
DB


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

field14 said:


> Not a bad idea at all. I 'might' just do that with regard to using any 20 targets selected by the tournament host at any time/given event and then changing up the shoot down so that none of the animals used during the shoot down were used during the event in question. I would imagine the idea won't be well received, however.


Im all for this......my favorite response all weekend when asked "what deer is it" meaning medium, etc.....i responded a brown one.

My friends make fun of me all the time because i dont know tge names of the targets.

I primarily ground judge- not the best way and its evident in my scores. Although i can say neither of my 2 eights at metro had anything to do with ydg

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> I call :bs:
> 
> You have to be capable of using that method of judging a targets distance for your complaint of _not_ being able to use that method to have standing! .............. Your opinion ruled IRRELEVANT! :becky:


hey we dont need any help from the lollypop guild now....LOL 
It was to see ya again Kent...I hope your doing well and had a great time at Metropolis.


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## smokin12ring (Dec 4, 2002)

280 fps like the old way or 290 max no plus 3%. I really liked west Monroe so that sucks. They do need more practice bags and another 3d practice range. I also think if they want to grow they need to ad ranges. I do shoot semi and would like to share the pro range instead of with a 45 Max class. I really liked this season so I ain't complaining.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

Tallcatt said:


> You can certainy tell that ASA is a successful organization and becoming more successful each year because.........
> 
> *Success Draws Criticism.*
> 
> ...


I like to think I'm offering _constructive criticism_ rather than merely being critical. I've said it many times, the ASA runs a super tournament and has no equal by a long shot!

I offered my criticisms in a previous post. All of which have been mentioned by many others........ I am NOT saying the ASA has _serious _flaws!! But a few things could be evaluated for improvement. I'm sure Mike T. talks to and listens to many tournament archers.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

The top shooters judge the target, not the distance. That statement is very accurate. However, I see nothing wrong with that.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

J Whittington said:


> The top shooters judge the target, not the distance. That statement is very accurate. However, I see nothing wrong with that.


well said.


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## Elf Friend (Mar 1, 2003)

Come back to Turkeyville.


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## Warrior8577 (Oct 14, 2012)

Was talk of a senior hunter class, think that will happen?


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

Warrior8577 said:


> Was talk of a senior hunter class, think that will happen?


We have added a Senior Hunter Class (with permission from ASA) here in our Texas ASA Federation events. It has been real popular. We are awarding a state championship buckle and SOY buckle just like any other class. ASA has been watching the progress of this class. Their questions for me have been.....Is Sr. Hunter segmenting the Huner class?.....Is Sr. Hunter bringing in any new shooters?......Is Sr. Hunter bringing back any shooters that had stopped shooting? My answer is all of the above. We have seen some 50 yrs and older shooters move from Hunter. We have seen a few new guys and few shooters that we have not seen in years.

Everyone wants to feel like they can compete and everyone would rather compete against their peers. Sr. Hunter gives the 50+ pin shooter that opportunity. The Open class has 5 Sr. classes (Sr. Pro, Sr. Open, Super Sr, Sr Masters, and Sr. Women). We think there is a need for Sr. Hunter. I hope ASA adopts the class at the Pro/Am level. We will continue to have the class in Texas. The guys have enjoyed the competition and we have a great SOY race coming down to the wire.


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## nchunter (Dec 4, 2003)

Seems like there are already too many classes. Many of the classes are diluted with very few shooters in them now. I don't see more classes helping. Maybe it might give someone new a big win in a national tournament against the other 5 people in the class...lol...

I really see no need for any of the open classes to have known yardage. There are know yardage classes already. See above comment about diluting and redundency in the classes. 

Maybe reorganize the range assignments so all pro classes and semi-pros shoot one range set (A/B) and keep all the know classes on one range set (B/C or whatever). Double or triple stake the known range for Known 50, Known 45, and Bow Novice. That way there is never any concerns about someone walking around on a range with the yardages or a range finder. There would ONLY be one set of ranges that are known. And for everyone wanting to see the Pros there is no concern about someone being on the range they are shooting beforehand because only the pros and semis will shoot that range set. 

Have Open A, Seniors, and Unlimited shoot one set. (50 yds max)

Open B, Super Senior, Women's Open shoot one set. (45 Yds Max)

Open C, Senior Masters, Hunter shoot one set (40 yds Max)

All youth classes, Women's Hunter, and Traditional shoot one set (may have to double stake this one as well).

I know this is similiar to what is done now, but it would keep the classes on ranges that are consistent with their distance limitations. That way you will know if you shoot class X, you will shoot on this range set and this is in your limits instead of 40 yard classes shooting 50 yard ranges and vice versa.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

As for shooting McKenzie targets, number of or number of contestants, check ASA forums. Mike gave a huge set of numbers.


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## VAN DAM (Feb 16, 2010)

Well I think the ASA does a great job for the most part, a few things could make it better though.

Bigger practice range

No speed limit for known classes. Its known yardage, might just draw people that dont want to change their setup

Maybe a class or two that is unknown with no speed limit

I would think they would put a shoot over in the VA or NC area. Their is a bunch of people that come from that area

And of course, fix the target foam


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## nchunter (Dec 4, 2003)

I wish they would come back to NC/VA area. AS many others metntion the long rides. I live near the caost of NC and there is not a shoot within 10 hours of us.

The new McKenzies are not very good either. They need to go back to the older foam.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

nchunter said:


> I wish they would come back to NC/VA area. AS many others metntion the long rides. I live near the caost of NC and there is not a shoot within 10 hours of us.
> 
> The new McKenzies are not very good either. They need to go back to the older foam.


If you want ASA to come ....you need to get the areas sports authorty and tourism board ...put in for consideration....

Clubs will not really work, unless they are HUGE property clubs ....as there is PFI criteria to be met


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> If you want ASA to come ....you need to get the areas sports authorty and tourism board ...put in for consideration....
> 
> Clubs will not really work, unless they are HUGE property clubs ....as there is PFI criteria to be met


The Asheville, NC region sure is nice and there are a LOT of archers within an 8 hour drive. A shoot on the grounds of the Biltmore estate would be AWESOME!!


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> The Asheville, NC region sure is nice and there are a LOT of archers within an 8 hour drive. A shoot on the grounds of the Biltmore estate would be AWESOME!!


Seems like we did exactly that back in the mid-90's.....if my memory serves me well.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

tmorelli said:


> Seems like we did exactly that back in the mid-90's.....if my memory serves me well.


Biltmore Estate FOR 2 YRS

We also, did Greenwood S.C a couple years also in the 90s (n/w) SC


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Ive heard rumors mike has made a few trips to the Greenville area of SC. That's just rumors. I do not have a concrete contact on this one.


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

Asheville has turned into hippy land/liberal land....not sure how a bunch of archers would be viewed in those parts these days......


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## dalger (Feb 13, 2010)

i like the 4 to a target and time limit it takes to long to shoot 20 targets


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## jimb (Feb 17, 2003)

I don't think that open a b or c should have known yardage.


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## FoggDogg (Jul 9, 2002)

1. More practice bags, w/ a 4 arrow limit.
2. Another practice range.
3. Limit of 4 shooters per stake during tourney.
4. LESS classes. Go ahead and flame away. 
5. Open C should be gone. Open A & B should be all un-known.
6. Loose Bow Novice. If you're shooting on a National level, you're not a novice.
7. Hunter class should have to use Hunter type equipment, i.e. arrows, screw in points. I'm not sure what to do about a sight and side/rear bars.
8. Need to eliminate speed limit in K45 & K50. It's know distance. If you can shoot 12 rings at 45 yards at 350 fps, you're a better shot than me and deserve to win.
9. Need to add an "Outlaw" class. This is a "run what ya' brung" class. No speed limit, un-known yardage class. We've been using it in the Michigan Federation for a few years and it will bring in the IBO shooters who can't/won't change set-ups.
10. If you're going to have a speed limit, then you need to enforce it!
11. Need to do something about the Delta/Mckenzie targets. They suck badly.


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## Bigjim67 (Jan 23, 2006)

> 1. More practice bags, w/ a 4 arrow limit.
> 2. Another practice range.
> 3. Limit of 4 shooters per stake during tourney.
> 4. LESS classes. Go ahead and flame away.
> ...


Look likes Foggdogg thought about this for a while and got it right on....


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## rcrhoyt/mathews (Aug 11, 2008)

As far as speed, I think it should go back to 280fps. In Metrop, sat, morning i saw 2 PSE shooters shoot the chrono, and 1 was at 298 and the other was at 302. they said they already turned then down and were'nt turning them down any further. Pretty bold comments on their part.


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## EROS (Feb 15, 2004)

More practice bags
5 max per stake 
Tell Delta to stop making junk 
Bring a shoot to NC or VA 

I don't know why they have the Pro shoot down on Sunday. Most of the shooters are starting to go home. Always liked the Pro shoot down on Saturday evening like the classic. Is it a problem to have the Pros shoot on Friday and Saturday with the shoot down on Saturday night.


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## Bo Bob (Feb 12, 2004)

cenochs said:


> Yes better targets and lower the price of a used range that is shot to crap!





boweng said:


> I'm a pretty go with the flow kind of fellow. The only thing that gets my gander up is to be standing on London's powerline shooting when the pros drive by stirring up the dust and making tons of racket. Not even considering the one idiot who was blaring music.





EROS said:


> More practice bags
> 5 max per stake
> Tell Delta to stop making junk
> Bring a shoot to NC or VA
> ...


Agree with John here. Bring one back this way and have the shoot down on Saturday night. 
I have never shot a big event but if I had a 6+ hour driving staring me in the face I sure wouldn't hang around for the shoot down.
Why can't the shoot downs be televised and put of one of the hunting channels, this would stimulate more interest in the sport I would think.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Bo Bob said:


> Agree with John here. Bring one back this way and have the shoot down on Saturday night.
> I have never shot a big event but if I had a 6+ hour driving staring me in the face I sure wouldn't hang around for the shoot down.
> Why can't the shoot downs be televised and put of one of the hunting channels, this would stimulate more interest in the sport I would think.


I'm all for them being televised but that's not for us to say. The coverage by bowjunky and Levi is much appreciated. 

The reason they don't have shootoffs on Saturday at most of them is that most of the pros have real jobs too and can't shoot Thurs/Friday/Saturday due to the additional travel time/expense.

IBO switched so that pro and semi shoot on Friday and their attendance plummeted. Word on the street is that the manufacturers are going to cut pro contingency @ IBO as a result. Let's learn from their mistake.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

tmorelli said:


> I'm all for them being televised but that's not for us to say. The coverage by bowjunky and Levi is much appreciated.
> 
> The reason they don't have shootoffs on Saturday at most of them is that most of the pros have real jobs too and can't shoot Thurs/Friday/Saturday due to the additional travel time/expense.
> 
> ...


i really liked the way Bow Life televised, live, the Regions shoot down at Anderson too.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

carlosii said:


> i really liked the way Bow Life televised, live, the Regions shoot down at Anderson too.


Sounds cool but I didnt catch it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## nchunter (Dec 4, 2003)

I like what FoggDogg suggested...especially less classes.
Hunters shoot hunting equipment, if you want to shoot nibbs, slide bars, ect... shoot unlimited, open, or known.
Maybe less open classes as well. 3 Opens just dilutes the pool.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

nchunter said:


> I like what FoggDogg suggested...especially less classes.
> Hunters shoot hunting equipment, if you want to shoot nibbs, slide bars, ect... shoot unlimited, open, or known.
> Maybe less open classes as well. 3 Opens just dilutes the pool.


I could go along with that....but also would suggest a "shoot whatcha brung" class, too where the gloves with regard to speed limits come off. A score is a score, is a score; regardless of the equipment used to shoot that score with.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

FoggDogg said:


> 1. More practice bags, w/ a 4 arrow limit.
> 2. Another practice range.
> 3. Limit of 4 shooters per stake during tourney.
> 4. LESS classes. Go ahead and flame away.
> ...


You're the man!


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## msuwxguy (Mar 20, 2012)

Doing away with the open classes is not a good idea. Those classes are there for the "move up" process. Just look at the attendance. The last two ASA shoots, KY and IL, in KY OC had 110, OB - 117, OA - 107, in IL, OC - 99, OB - 113, and OA - 103. So you are wanting to do away with a class that had 100+ in attendance and merge them with a class that too has 100+. Your "little" guys would stop coming because of the large class. Also, yall would all be on here complaining about 6 per stake and having to shoot all in one day etc, because of the number of people in one class. And about the novice class, I have shot in that class, I have shot with people who have never shot a 3D shoot before in their life and they are at a pro/am. A pro/am is just that, an event for pros and amateurs. Honestly, some guys will never even win their way out of a novice class. Yall seasoned shooters or backyard pros, want to cut off the ones of us who show up by the hundreds and shoot and have a good time.


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## ProtecMan (Apr 14, 2003)

FoggDogg said:


> 1. More practice bags, w/ a 4 arrow limit.
> 2. Another practice range.
> 3. Limit of 4 shooters per stake during tourney.
> 4. LESS classes. Go ahead and flame away.
> ...


X2 Definitely some good points brought up here!


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## bowjoe1800 (Sep 8, 2008)

Have an On Deck (OD) stake. 
On the very full ranges, no empty stakes, there is a confusion sometimes on when to move to the next stake. Or there is a back up at the turn.
Put a stake between stakes 1 and 20, the ON Deck stake, they are usually across from one another. When shooters on stake 20 are ready to go to #1 they go to the OD stake. When shooters on #1 move to #2, on deckers go to #1. 
No one moves to the next stake unless it is empty or people in front of you are moving.
#20 should be the first to come open when they go to the OD stake.
This leaves no doubt when to move and also will tell what group is slowing everything down.


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## nchunter (Dec 4, 2003)

Not looking to cut anyone off...just trying to maybe simplify the process. 1 Open class could all shoot 1 range set of 40 targets. With 5 on the stake that is 200 shooters on one range at once. 2 start times per day = 400 shootes on that range. If their are not 400 shooters in that class, then cut down the group sizes. 
I do understand that many people are going just to have a good time as everyone should be. The fact is though that "most" not all but "most" of those winning in the lower open classes (i.e. open C) and bow novice are not novices by any means. If you can shoot 30-40 up, you are not a novice...If you have been shooting tournaments for 10+ years, you are not a novice...just saying.
The original purpose of these classes was to get "new" archers into shooting tournaments with hopes that they would stick with it and move into a more competitive class. However it seems many people got comfortable there and stayed.
Look at how small the unlimited class is now compared to the bowhunter. Essentially these are the same class with only stabilizer length differeences with the hunter class shooting much shorter ranges. When it began, the hunter class did not allow nibbs, side bars, etc...but it evolved into a shorter ranged unlimited instead of promoting growth of the already existing unlimited class.
An Outlaw type class with no limits is also a good idea to maybe gain participation from those that don't want to turn down their bows or change their set-ups.


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## msuwxguy (Mar 20, 2012)

nchunter said:


> Not looking to cut anyone off...just trying to maybe simplify the process. 1 Open class could all shoot 1 range set of 40 targets. With 5 on the stake that is 200 shooters on one range at once. 2 start times per day = 400 shootes on that range. If their are not 400 shooters in that class, then cut down the group sizes.
> I do understand that many people are going just to have a good time as everyone should be. The fact is though that "most" not all but "most" of those winning in the lower open classes (i.e. open C) and bow novice are not novices by any means. If you can shoot 30-40 up, you are not a novice...If you have been shooting tournaments for 10+ years, you are not a novice...just saying.
> The original purpose of these classes was to get "new" archers into shooting tournaments with hopes that they would stick with it and move into a more competitive class. However it seems many people got comfortable there and stayed.
> Look at how small the unlimited class is now compared to the bowhunter. Essentially these are the same class with only stabilizer length differeences with the hunter class shooting much shorter ranges. When it began, the hunter class did not allow nibbs, side bars, etc...but it evolved into a shorter ranged unlimited instead of promoting growth of the already existing unlimited class.
> An Outlaw type class with no limits is also a good idea to maybe gain participation from those that don't want to turn down their bows or change their set-ups.




I agree that some "novice" shooters who shoot that well should move up. Maybe the answer should be making the novice classes a trophy only class or lowering the move up amount earned. Maybe even putting a placed move up such as top 5/top 10 moves up. I don't know the answer but I do know that cutting out the beginner classes would hurt more than help.


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Shoot the Novice class for one year then move out. lain:


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

nchunter said:


> Not looking to cut anyone off...just trying to maybe simplify the process. 1 Open class could all shoot 1 range set of 40 targets. With 5 on the stake that is 200 shooters on one range at once. 2 start times per day = 400 shootes on that range. If their are not 400 shooters in that class, then cut down the group sizes.
> I do understand that many people are going just to have a good time as everyone should be. The fact is though that "most" not all but "most" of those winning in the lower open classes (i.e. open C) and bow novice are not novices by any means. If you can shoot 30-40 up, you are not a novice...If you have been shooting tournaments for 10+ years, you are not a novice...just saying.
> The original purpose of these classes was to get "new" archers into shooting tournaments with hopes that they would stick with it and move into a more competitive class. However it seems many people got comfortable there and stayed.
> Look at how small the unlimited class is now compared to the bowhunter. Essentially these are the same class with only stabilizer length differeences with the hunter class shooting much shorter ranges. When it began, the hunter class did not allow nibbs, side bars, etc...but it evolved into a shorter ranged unlimited instead of promoting growth of the already existing unlimited class.
> An Outlaw type class with no limits is also a good idea to maybe gain participation from those that don't want to turn down their bows or change their set-ups.


Are you saying make it a one day tournament? No way!
I could see it taking a good 8 hours, possibly longer, to shoot 40 targets with 5 people on each stake! With more targets and groups it will take longer to complete than it does now. Currently it takes about 3.5 hours for a full course to completely finish shooting 20 targets. I don't know how you could get two groups of 200 completely finished and off the course in a single day. Personally, I have zero desire to spend that many hours in one day shooting 40 targets.


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## lojo (Mar 13, 2009)

Women's Open A is suffering since the Open B class has been opened up. We average 12-15 in Women's Open A. In Metropolis we were 6 to a stake on 2 stakes. Just think the women's classes are too split up for the number of shooters.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

lojo said:


> Women's Open A is suffering since the Open B class has been opened up. We average 12-15 in Women's Open A. In Metropolis we were 6 to a stake on 2 stakes. Just think the women's classes are too split up for the number of shooters.


The open A class was created because there was no upward progression to women's pro class .

So they now have a natural progression:
Women's hunter - all known 30yrds
Women's known 40- all known 40yrds
Women's open B - 20 unknown / 20 known 40yrds
Women's open A - 40 all unknown 45 yards
Women's pro 40 all unknown 50 yards

This is what the women wanted.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> The open A class was created because there was no upward progression to women's pro class .
> 
> So they now have a natural progression:
> Women's hunter - all known 30yrds
> ...


Phsst, well good luck with keeping it with their "wants"!!!!!!!!! :becky:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> This is what the women wanted.


NO man knows what women want...specially you, Tim. :set1_rolf2:


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Everyone's a comedian these days...lol


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

nchunter said:


> I like what FoggDogg suggested...especially less classes.
> Hunters shoot hunting equipment, if you want to shoot nibbs, slide bars, ect... shoot unlimited, open, or known.
> Maybe less open classes as well. 3 Opens just dilutes the pool.





field14 said:


> I could go along with that....but also would suggest a "shoot whatcha brung" class, too where the gloves with regard to speed limits come off. A score is a score, is a score; regardless of the equipment used to shoot that score with.


Tom, less than 30 classes, I think, in ASA. What, 75 in the NFAA? But then the NFAA doesn't let all classes compete, do they?


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

bhtr3d said:


> Everyone's a comedian these days...lol


well, not everyone...but we are dedicating the new Red Skelton Museum here next week. he was one of the great ones and a local boy.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

SonnyThomas said:


> Tom, less than 30 classes, I think, in ASA. What, 75 in the NFAA? But then the NFAA doesn't let all classes compete, do they?


Unfortuanately, YES...the NFAA DOES allow all classes to compete. IF somebody signs up in one...and unfortunately, the NFAA also tends to give an award to a "class" if only ONE shows up to register in it, too. I don't think there are 75, but there are a slew of 'em...and MANY are NOT "self-supporting" either...and should be done away with. They also need to re-instate the 3-5-7 rule as far as awards goes, too. If only one or two in a "class" NO AWARD...3 in a class...ONE award, 4-6 = TWO awards, and 7 or more = 3 awards. Takes I think 15 to "flight" a class with two flights, 8 and 7...etc,etc...
Now, SOME states still have the 3-5-7; some clubs still go by it, too. GOOD THING! Put an end to "show up and get an award." They do need to do a study and get rid of classes that perpetually have fewer than 5 participating in it.

Amazing in that you constantly "bash" the NFAA and that is OK..but if "field" says anything contrary on ASA, IBO, or 3-D in general, the 'fieldman' is accused of "hating 3-D". Strange as it seems, I was shooting what was a misnomer called "3-D" back in the mid 1970's when they would cut out an animal figure out of foam, put it up on a bale or against a dirt bank....and call it "3-D" shooting! So don't gimme this stuff about not knowing what 3-D is about....been there from the beginning and dun that...and do keep an eye on it and ears to the grape-vine, too.

Now...the "outlaw class" as suggested could well bring in some people from IBO because some just won't change their IBO setup to come play shoot the foam in ASA, because they have to either slow their setups down a LOT...or...they have to muster with two setups, and in 3-D, having two different setups can be very, very unhandy and cost you points due to confusion of impact points vs. distance "guesses" and where you were aiming vs. where you impacted vertically. That would mess with a person's mind big time.

What we have here is that the archery world does NOT revolve or start and stop to let 3-Ders on or off, nor does it revolve around spot shooters to let them on or off either. We all make our choices, and some make the choices to compete in ALL venues; there are not many of those that excel in ALL of them...but one for sure really stands out....Mr. Tim Gillingham! He wins at IBO, he wins at ASA, and he WINS at field, unmarked NFAA 3-D, and recently took out Reo Wilde in a FITA style tournament on the West Coast too. Tim has many scores on a full FITA round over 1400. This past weekend, he also shot a perfect 560 field round too. That is an all around archer and distance or target doesn't matter one iota to him...he'll shoot 'em all...and may well complain about 'em all, too, but equally. hahahahaha.


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## jbeasleyshoot (Jan 29, 2008)

I would like to see the known go away from open classes, known classes are good but maybe make a known pins, known open, known pro class. Novice classes are fine for one year but at what point are you not a novice anymore I think a years worth of shooting should push you up to hunter class that is actually a hunter class with hunter equipment or move to an open class. I like the outlaw class idea but you would have to do an open and a pins outlaw class. I don't know but there are so many classes now I can't keep up and people gripe about the money not being good well that is one of the reasons, its too spread out. I shot many proams, nabh and ibo years ago and am just getting back into it now since my kids are big enough to go and it seems like there is less interest now than ever and more people bowhunting seems like simplification may be the answer to this issue. Just my ramblings


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

After two years of asa shoots I love them and can't wait to win a event, it took me a few shoots to settle into a plan of attack on when to arrive and how to manage the entire weekend. The asa experience is a game to be played from the practice bags and the speed limit and all other issues that come up.

The only thing that must be done is the target company currently being used should be flushed down the toilet, they are purposely producing targets that have a short life span.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

field14 said:


> Unfortuanately, YES...the NFAA DOES allow all classes to compete. IF somebody signs up in one...and unfortunately, the NFAA also tends to give an award to a "class" if only ONE shows up to register in it, too. I don't think there are 75, but there are a slew of 'em...and MANY are NOT "self-supporting" either...and should be done away with. They also need to re-instate the 3-5-7 rule as far as awards goes, too. If only one or two in a "class" NO AWARD...3 in a class...ONE award, 4-6 = TWO awards, and 7 or more = 3 awards. Takes I think 15 to "flight" a class with two flights, 8 and 7...etc,etc...
> Now, SOME states still have the 3-5-7; some clubs still go by it, too. GOOD THING! Put an end to "show up and get an award." They do need to do a study and get rid of classes that perpetually have fewer than 5 participating in it.
> 
> Amazing in that you constantly "bash" the NFAA and that is OK..but if "field" says anything contrary on ASA, IBO, or 3-D in general, the 'fieldman' is accused of "hating 3-D". Strange as it seems, I was shooting what was a misnomer called "3-D" back in the mid 1970's when they would cut out an animal figure out of foam, put it up on a bale or against a dirt bank....and call it "3-D" shooting! So don't gimme this stuff about not knowing what 3-D is about....been there from the beginning and dun that...and do keep an eye on it and ears to the grape-vine, too.
> ...


Our state entry form shows 72 classes. And then multiple for the female side. NASP is a class of it's own.
Still of our state, better than is was ?, no Cub, Youth or Young Adult classes for 4 classes. But "no one is to be turned away." So no class in the event one is moved up? to the next level. I believe someone got kids their class to compete over the 2005 or 2006 State Outdoor when the parent found out his BHFSR kids had to shoot against FS kids. Took a vote I guess, but we got the BHFSR kids their class to compete.

I don't discriminate. I "bash" them all. And when my "bashing" came it was of the same thing WE (you, me and others) ran up against over the Super Log arrow Tim Gillingham came up with. It was rules are rules and the IAA could not over rule the Super Logs. You though related of Presley's would not have another event allowing the Super Logs.
If I remember correctly, and I do, I liked to have got hanged over trying to get imput from IAA members so to look or make things better. Yes sir, you can be on the Central Board, but you can't ask the people you represent of what they'd like to see. In that same meeting I complained of members not seeing the revised Constitution ever since it was revised several years back, but always getting handcuffed by it. Then Great Lakes Councilman Sonny Glisson came forward in my behalf and we got the Constitution and we got a Questionaire, but no results were really wanted because that's the way "they" wanted it.
Same thing of the then 3D Championship, now gone these past 6 years. One, the IAA wanted such and such date. If date conflicted with other clubs the host club suffered. Supported by a club that did suffer I did ask that the 3D dates be flexible. WE got that. And then had to turn around and put the Minutes in front of "some one's" eye showing it was voted on and passed.
We tried to save the 3D Championship, but you know who wanted it gone and it went.... It was a robbery in plain sight anyway. Average turn out of IAA members was right at 35. Any above that was the club's regular shooters showing up. 
I remember Walt Erickson blowing his stack over 3 IAA members showing up for the 3D Rendevzous.
Yes, Tom, ole basher Sonny. 

I agree with the 3,5,7. I was saw Champion awarded to one in class and he only shot 12 shots and quit. He did turn in his card and that's how he got Champion.

For the rest, it's good reading and food for thought.


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## nchunter (Dec 4, 2003)

I wasn't suggesting all 40 targets being shot in one day. 2 start times each day if necessary (this is done now). I also agree that the novice classes need to be kept. I like the 1 year rule. You can shoot the "novice" classes (bow novice, Open C, women's novice) for 1 year only. Maybe only have 2 Open classes (A & B) where B is essentially the novice Open and combine the current Open A and B. Once you win out of A, go to Semi-Pro. Maybe up the winning limit to $1000 or $1200 or something for Open A to move up since this should increase the # in the class and increase the potential winnings$$$.


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## nchunter (Dec 4, 2003)

And yes...better targets with better foam!


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## lojo (Mar 13, 2009)

bhtr3d said:


> The open A class was created because there was no upward progression to women's pro class .
> 
> So they now have a natural progression:
> Women's hunter - all known 30yrds
> ...


Just sayin', sometimes what is wanted doesn't turn out for the best and may need rethinking. Many changes are made trying to do better but they don't always work out. Of course, maybe I'm the only one who feels that having 12-15 shooters in a class isn't a real good change. I'll be there trying to do my best no matter what. Just a thought about improvements.


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

bhtr3d said:


> The open A class was created because there was no upward progression to women's pro class .
> 
> So they now have a natural progression:
> Women's hunter - all known 30yrds
> ...


Saying that is what the women wanted is not accurate. I know several woman who stopped shooting ASA because they had to move out of womens known 40, and they didn't want to shoot unknown targets. And there are several more that will stop shooting next year if they win out of womens known 40 this year. There needs to be a womens known 50/womens known pro class added. The push for a so called natural progression to womens pro was pushed by a certain bow company. The same one that is trying to stand in the way of the K50 becoming Known Pro.


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## J Whittington (Nov 13, 2009)

Kelly, no, they wouldn't stand in the way of progress lol


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## kevoswifey (Feb 14, 2012)

n2bows said:


> Saying that is what the women wanted is not accurate. I know several woman who stopped shooting ASA because they had to move out of womens known 40, and they didn't want to shoot unknown targets. And there are several more that will stop shooting next year if they win out of womens known 40 this year. There needs to be a womens known 50/womens known pro class added. The push for a so called natural progression to womens pro was pushed by a certain bow company. The same one that is trying to stand in the way of the K50 becoming Known Pro.


The women that win out of Women's Known 40 can always go shoot K45 or K50. There is no need for yet another Women's class with low attendance.


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## Luv2shoot3D (Feb 4, 2013)

n2bows said:


> Saying that is what the women wanted is not accurate. I know several woman who stopped shooting ASA because they had to move out of womens known 40, and they didn't want to shoot unknown targets. And there are several more that will stop shooting next year if they win out of womens known 40 this year. There needs to be a womens known 50/womens known pro class added. The push for a so called natural progression to womens pro was pushed by a certain bow company. The same one that is trying to stand in the way of the K50 becoming Known Pro.


What bow company is standing in your way?


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Catch us if you can


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

kevoswifey said:


> The women that win out of Women's Known 40 can always go shoot K45 or K50. There is no need for yet another Women's class with low attendance.


Yes they can shoot K45 or K50 with the men. But 99.9% of women DO NOT want to compete against men. And if you have a Women Known 50 class, you will be bringing women BACK to ASA. And you would also STOP some women from quitting ASA. ASA should have NEVER expanded the womens open class to include A & B. One womens open class that shot half known and half unknown was enough.


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

On other ASA improvements. I believe the VERY REAL problems with both practice bales and the 3-D practice targets needs to be addressed!!


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

n2bows said:


> Yes they can shoot K45 or K50 with the men. But 99.9% of women DO NOT want to compete against men. And if you have a Women Known 50 class, you will be bringing women BACK to ASA. And you would also STOP some women from quitting ASA. ASA should have NEVER expanded the womens open class to include A & B. One womens open class that shot half known and half unknown was enough.


i BELIEVE there is 2 women that do shoot in the K45 class....there was one at ill...there would of been 2...but one did not make it.....I know she'll be at the classic though.....


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

JimmyP said:


> Catch us if you can


jimmy....that catch phrase is out of date....lol


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

n2bows said:


> Yes they can shoot K45 or K50 with the men. But 99.9% of women DO NOT want to compete against men. And if you have a Women Known 50 class, you will be bringing women BACK to ASA. And you would also STOP some women from quitting ASA. ASA should have NEVER expanded the womens open class to include A & B. One womens open class that shot half known and half unknown was enough.


I totally agree. We have definitely lost some shooters that have won out of K40. We need a Womens K45 or K50.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Tallcatt said:


> I totally agree. We have definitely lost some shooters that have won out of K40. We need a Womens K45 or K50.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


I agree. And they could probably shoot on the same range and time as the K45 and or 50, but in their own peer groups.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

He ask what bow company holds back the known classes no one likes to say the word. There afraid that I'd they called it known pro and pay conti. They would loose pros out of unknown,. If there is aprox. 45 shooters in unknown and 15 go to the known it will take some luster away from unknown . We need to grow the sport and have both. It's going to happen in time


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Hhhhmmm, having a 3D Pro Known class, just doesn't seem right to me either.

I'm not good at judging yardage, but I do like the challenge in 3D of judging yardage. It's part of the game, IMO. I don't think you use range finders in golf either.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

If any manufacturer is holding back a Known Pro class it is because they don't want it to completely kill off the NFAA and possibly other target archery orgs.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Kstigall said:


> If any manufacturer is holding back a Known Pro class it is because they don't want it to completely kill off the NFAA and possibly other target archery orgs.



or it's because they've "heavily invested" in the Open Pro class and don't want to have to do it again in the Known Pro.... or realize it would be harder because the other manufacturer's already have the vast majority of the "dot shooters"


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

I don't see a k45/k50 class for women only......as stated before k45/50 is uni gendered....and there is already women that shoot in the k45.


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## ThunderEagle (May 11, 2011)

sagecreek said:


> Hhhhmmm, having a 3D Pro Known class, just doesn't seem right to me either.
> 
> I'm not good at judging yardage, but I do like the challenge in 3D of judging yardage. It's part of the game, IMO. I don't think you use range finders in golf either.


There are many golf range finders made. In addition to that, pro's play a course several times before they compete on it and compile a book of yardages from different points on a course. Hell, most courses have a couple of yardage markers in the fairway of each hole.


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## Junior Powers (Dec 22, 2009)

My Gosh boys, am i the only one that thinks there is a major problem with the bow NOVICE class? what a joke when it takes 35, 40 up to win it? NOVICE huh


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Junior Powers said:


> My Gosh boys, am i the only one that thinks there is a major problem with the bow NOVICE class? what a joke when it takes 35, 40 up to win it? NOVICE huh


Lots of people want a shiny belt buckle. lain:


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

bhtr3d said:


> I don't see a k45/k50 class for women only......as stated before k45/50 is uni gendered....and there is already women that shoot in the k45.


Tim, I think Florida heat has melted your brain. There have been a LOT more of women who have stopped shooting because they didn't want to shoot unknown yardage or go shoot against men in the K45/K50, than are shooting in the K45. And the ONLY REASON that there is 1 or 2 women shooting in the K45 class is because there is not a K45/K50 class for women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

tmorelli said:


> or it's because they've "heavily invested" in the Open Pro class and don't want to have to do it again in the Known Pro.... or realize it would be harder because the other manufacturer's already have the vast majority of the "dot shooters"


ding ding ding ding ding!!! You win the prize!!!!

They might slow the tide, but I do not believe they will be able to stop it.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

n2bows said:


> Tim, I think Florida heat has melted your brain. There have been a LOT more of women who have stopped shooting because they didn't want to shoot unknown yardage or go shoot against men in the K45/K50, than are shooting in the K45. And the ONLY REASON that there is 1 or 2 women shooting in the K45 class is because there is not a K45/K50 class for women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Kelly, it may have...or it might be this major corporate merger im in the middle of....Who knows....

But, that is not the reason..... The reason I know of...is because they don't want to deal with with cat fights bickering that goes on....Oh, yada yada shooting this class...or shes shooting that class...she doens't belong shooting in that class shes too good to shoot against us.....


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

My wife started archery 3 years ago she has never touched a bow before that.can only pull 42 lb.she started in women's known.almost won out her first year,she never plans on hunting period with a bow,can't judge at all,she don't need to compete with men not good enough.i would like to see what the scores would be if men's bows were shooting 245 fps .woman like to go with there husband to the big turn,most do t want to spend the time judging yards.all known classes are growing bigger and bigger you better get ready.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

JimmyP said:


> My wife started archery 3 years ago she has never touched a bow before that.can only pull 42 lb.she started in women's known.almost won out her first year,she never plans on hunting period with a bow,can't judge at all,she don't need to compete with men not good enough.i would like to see what the scores would be if men's bows were shooting 245 fps .woman like to go with there husband to the big turn,most do t want to spend the time judging yards.all known classes are growing bigger and bigger you better get ready.


Jimmy, I don't mean to bust your bubble about speed...but last year the man that won SOY for K45 was only shoot 251fps out of his bow....

His wife this year will be shooting the K45 class...she pulls 52lbs...and is shooting 277 with xcutter arrows at 26in draw....So, it sort of relitive to the shooter, is it not? 

Maybe you should get a different bow for her....Let me know we at G-Team could help you out


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## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I wouldn't think it would matter how fast your bow is in known yardage.


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

bhtr3d said:


> Jimmy, I don't mean to bust your bubble about speed...but last year the man that won SOY for K45 was only shoot 251fps out of his bow....
> 
> His wife this year will be shooting the K45 class...she pulls 52lbs...and is shooting 277 with xcutter arrows at 26in draw....So, it sort of relitive to the shooter, is it not?
> 
> Maybe you should get a different bow for her....Let me know we at G-Team could help you out


Tim, The point that Jimmy was trying to make, other than the speed issue. Is that a lot of women do not want to learn how to judge yardage, and have no desire to ever learn how to judge yardage. And MOST women do NOT want to be in a class where they have to compete against men either.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

sagecreek said:


> I wouldn't think it would matter how fast your bow is in known yardage.


only matters if there's a strong crosswind.


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## 300MAG (Nov 26, 2005)

EROS said:


> More practice bags
> 5 max per stake
> Tell Delta to stop making junk
> Bring a shoot to NC or VA
> ...


I agree with u it would be great to have pro shootdown on Saturday night. But 90% of the pros work a real job. Until there is a way for 90% of pros to make a living from shooting a bow the class will die. Look at the attendance of ibo this year since they went to Friday Saturday shooting. Less than 30.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

bhtr3d said:


> Jimmy, I don't mean to bust your bubble about speed...but last year the man that won SOY for K45 was only shoot 251fps out of his bow....
> 
> His wife this year will be shooting the K45 class...she pulls 52lbs...and is shooting 277 with xcutter arrows at 26in draw....So, it sort of relitive to the shooter, is it not?
> 
> Maybe you should get a different bow for her....Let me know we at G-Team could help you out


You miss the point put that same guy in open a with that same speed how good would he have to judge


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## FitaX10 (Aug 1, 2002)

Just curious why women should have to shoot with the men just to progress? If that's the case, then there is no need for any of the women's classes. Certainly not the new open classes. By this reasoning, the ladies should have one open class one k own class and one pins class, when you win out you shoot in the "next" ladies class or shoot with the men. Kind of convoluted thinking if you ask me. Either make another k own class for the ladies (K40 is one of the largest) or make it so you can't win out at all. 
My $.02


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

The numbers in both of the classes ....K40 and Open B has seen the classes grow with shooters moving from one class to the next step up. So, I do believe that will be how it will still stand...
Women's Hunter
Women's Open B
Women's Open A
Women's Pro 
Of course any of the ladies are welcome and able to shoot in Known 45 and Known 50 class.

But, as I stated before....I looked at the total of the numbers...and over the classes this year....each of the open and B and women's known 40 grew with shooters .


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## n2bows (May 21, 2002)

There are times when I wish I could reach through my CPU and smack the person on the other end right upside there big head!! Just because they need it!!


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

n2bows said:


> There are times when I wish I could reach through my CPU and smack the person on the other end right upside there big head!! Just because they need it!!




Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

We're about to have a sideshow battle of the ASA directors. 

My money is on Tim if the cage is small.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

I have just bare facts to go with...and numbers an stats are what I have to go off of .... If you can show something more than what the factual numbers show....please do so.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

If I had it my way....>I'd do away with A/ B /C and turn it into a flight level thing....A on the second day would stay unknown.....b would become known 45 yard max..and C teir would become 40 known yard.... The monies would be broken down into the A level would get the larger of the purse fee, then b....then C ....

But, this is just my thought and opinion.

Also, I would like to have seen the 14 ring come into play on the second day..... Make more of a stradegy game


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## LadyRobinHood (May 27, 2003)

As for the ASA suggestions for 2014; it would be great to see them add the city and state of each shooter on the results pages. It is nice to know where everyone is from.

Also, it would be nice to be able sign up for a time for the SIMS when paying by phone, since some of us can't get there until sometime Friday. By then all the times are filled up for Friday because they either get there on Thursday and sign up or they have a buddy sign them up even though he or she is not present at the time. Just a couple of suggestions. This is our first year shooting ASA and We love the ASA!


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

bhtr3d said:


> If I had it my way....>I'd do away with A/ B /C and turn it into a flight level thing....A on the second day would stay unknown.....b would become known 45 yard max..and C teir would become 40 known yard.... The monies would be broken down into the A level would get the larger of the purse fee, then b....then C ....
> 
> But, this is just my thought and opinion.
> 
> Also, I would like to have seen the 14 ring come into play on the second day..... Make more of a stradegy game


You aren't serious, are you? Why not just have one flight and the top shooters win a bunch of the money. To distribute the remainder of the money just draw names out of a hat.
I think the low threshold for winning out of the classes works fairly well.


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## JimmyP (Feb 11, 2006)

Maybe we should ask the shooters ,do some poles ,kinda like they did on the 14 ask woman,and maybe ask the known guys what they want.my money on n2 bows


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## YankeeRebel (Dec 30, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> Thank you. Now, if a few more would chime in......


Sonny it has been PROVEN Rinehart makes a better target hands down. I have mostly McKenzie's because that's what I compete on. For the money and durability I'd take a Rinehart any day over a Delta/McKenzie.


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

Only allow shooters from each state to compete in their state championship in which they reside. This creates a true state championship as you are competing against shooters that reside in your state.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

STRICNINE said:


> Only allow shooters from each state to compete in their state championship in which they reside. This creates a true state championship as you are competing against shooters that reside in your state.


What if our state doesnt have one?


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> What if our state doesnt have one?


Then your state probably voted for Obama.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

We have a republican Gov - had Paul Ryan as a congressman and the state still didnt go for Romney/Ryan - that should have been a major clue with the candidates that bought their way onto the Republican ticket.....remember when Romney was an early front runner? Me neither 

We have no state IBO or ASA.....


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Garceau said:


> We have a republican Gov - had Paul Ryan as a congressman and the state still didnt go for Romney/Ryan - that should have been a major clue with the candidates that bought their way onto the Republican ticket.....remember when Romney was an early front runner? Me neither
> 
> We have no state IBO or ASA.....


I was actually a fan of Scott Walker but haven't followed him lately. Romney/Ryan speaks for themselves....

On the topic, I don't think any of the states have an internal participation level that would warrant limiting participation beyond those willing to qualify and attend.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Oh boy..... when we are together in person and not being tracked on these things I can tell you stories.......


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

If the Shootdown is moved to Saturday for all tournaments the Pro/Am is gone, it will be an Am/Am......just like Classic and I think Texas.


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## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

STRICNINE said:


> Only allow shooters from each state to compete in their state championship in which they reside. This creates a true state championship as you are competing against shooters that reside in your state.


Place of residence is not relevant. A lot of archers are more active in archery in a neighboring state than in the state in which they live. If you live in Virginia it may be much more convenient to participate in a state championship in Tennessee, Kentucky, W. Va, N. Carolina or Maryland than to shoot Virginia's championship. Though there is a big drop in the quality of competition if you do..........


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## Tallcatt (Jul 27, 2003)

STRICNINE said:


> Only allow shooters from each state to compete in their state championship in which they reside. This creates a true state championship as you are competing against shooters that reside in your state.


I am not sure I understand this ???

We have a tri state qualifier,The Western Region Shoot-Out...Texas, Okahoma and Arkansas, and a bi-state qualifier at Texarkana (Texas and Arkansas). Our shooters enjoy getting to go to the neighboring state qualifiers and state championships. A lot of our pretty buckles end up in Oklahoma and Arkansas. Plus it makes all 3 states programs stronger. That why in 2011 the top 3 federations were Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas. In 2012 it was Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma. In 2013 its going to be much the same. We will end up with close to 3000 total (maybe more) participants (shooters) this year in Texas thru 21 state qualifers and the state championship.


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## bhtr3d (Feb 13, 2004)

Kstigall said:


> You aren't serious, are you? Why not just have one flight and the top shooters win a bunch of the money. To distribute the remainder of the money just draw names out of a hat.
> I think the low threshold for winning out of the classes works fairly well.


Sure....why not.....everyone wants to change how we do things.....sure add this to the fire as well.....

But, in all fairness...>I truely dont care....I just want to shoot and have fun....That is what a major majority of us are there for to begin with... Right???


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## STRICNINE (Oct 22, 2012)

Then a state championship has no relevance. Glad i figured this out now so I can go shoot my state qualifier relaxed


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