# Bowturbow is out (adds upto 30FPS)



## trx125 (Sep 10, 2008)

Here is the the bow turbow! *URL removed by Admin-Active links are reserved for sponsors* check it out!


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## trx125 (Sep 10, 2008)

not assoc. with this product just seen it on another forum and passing on the info!


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

WOW!!!! does this increase poundage and draw length when the cables are pulled in like that? thats the only thing I can tell that would allow for that big of an increase...


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## trx125 (Sep 10, 2008)

Not sure! I would say it is negligible. I just found it and thought wow this would be great for my SQ2!


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## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

drtnshtr said:


> WOW!!!! does this increase poundage and draw length when the cables are pulled in like that? thats the only thing I can tell that would allow for that big of an increase...


I have to agree. looks like it is putting alot of extra torque on the limbs and cams. Can't be good on the limbs. I would like to see the stats on the Draw weight with and with out.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

I can think of 4 ways to increase speed...

Get lighter arrows
Increase draw length
Make the system more efficient(change cams)
Increase draw weight

I'm going to guess the fourth one unless something is going on that I didn't see in the video.


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## tntone (Aug 13, 2006)

i think its a win win situation all the way around.... wish i thought of it..... all i takes is one little something and here comes the money....:teeth:


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## thunderchicken2 (Aug 22, 2006)

hmmm....and some people don't like mathews because of a roller guard yet you are going to put one of these things on their bows which is basically the same thing


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## 3DBIGBULLX (Dec 30, 2004)

Im not sure either, however, it pulls the cables at the same angle as a Mathews does with their roller or a Bowtech.......idk why a 25fps jump?


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## S4 300-60 (Mar 18, 2003)

It HAS to increase DL and Poundage........I don't see how it can't....it's a good idea, but doesn't seem all that genius to me.....I bet after you installed it, if you set the bow back to the DL and poundage that you were at before the install, you would see no increase......


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## trx125 (Sep 10, 2008)

I have 2 Mathews! 1 with roller guard(Legacy) and 1 without(SQ2). I would like to get one just to see the difference in the 2. I would think it would only add more preload to the limbs depending upon where you postioned the Turbow on the cable rod.


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## fancycat (Nov 3, 2007)

draw force mapper?


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

I would expect a notice out from the bow manufacturer's that if you install this, it voids your warranty by saying that adding draw weight is meant to be done at the limb bolts, not the cable guard. Let's see how the bows having this on there.

BowTurbow guys....time to send out a few freebies for us to test for ya! Where do I sent my address?


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## t8ter (Apr 7, 2003)

:moviecorn


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## Paul S. (Sep 14, 2003)

Interesting. I'd like to see what testing they have done and if there is any long term damage done to a bow with this installed?


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*it does not increase poundage!*

I am a customer at the shop that designed the Bow Turbow. I have seen it tested on several different bows. 
There is a variance in how you you can set it up. In its most extreme setting, the Vectrix Plus it was put on gained maybe 1.5 lbs of peak draw weight. But went from shooting 316 to 346! Set in its normal position, which is where your cable slide is at brace height, it still shot 336 with no increase in poundage. The most common reaction was 1 - 2 lbs of holding weight added to the back end. I know that they measured the limb deflection on a X-Force and the difference at full draw was 1/4 of an inch.
It icreased speed on every bow I saw it put on. As faras the bows I shot with it on you could not detect any poundage increase. Ofcouse I did not shoot every bow that was tested, but a few. The one thing that you will notice immediatly is that it all but stops cable occilation making every bow we shot with it noticably quieter and reduced any vabration at the shot. It was really awsome to be there when they had working models out trying them. I do not stand to make a single cent on this thing, just happened to be there while it was designed. I was really excited about it. 
I saw a 6 - 7 year old PSE Nitro go from 286 to 318! The guy who owned this bow begged for one but not only did he have to sign a discloser waiver but was told he would have to wait like the rest of us. Heck I shoot for the shop and I was made to do the same thing! I won't have one until the first production! Checkit out guys, I've seen it and I can tell you it works. I geuss by reducing the friction and inefficiancy of the cable guard it makes big changes in a bow.
I can shoot a heavier target arrow at less poundage for 3-D and get mad kenetic energy out of my hunting rig at lower poundage as well!


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## camohunter24736 (Oct 15, 2007)

i agree, if my bow goes from 70lbs to 80lbs and i get a big increase in speed, i could just go and buy a 80lb bow. Im not convinced yet.


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## BigEves34 (May 9, 2007)

I'd like to see the Draw Force Curves for each bow with and without the bowturbow on... I think they'd be very different. 

$60...


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## switchraph (Feb 14, 2006)

if you get more speed it's because it stores more energy
it store more energy by having the limb travel farther
it change the angle of the cables instead of having em straight from a cam to another it it angle it making the limb more parrallel and probably pulling more DW

it'll also change dl because of the cables angle

not a tech by any mean but i think those statement are accurate


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## trx125 (Sep 10, 2008)

What the heck! I ordered one just for S n G's! :darkbeer: I have wasted more money on worst things! :dontknow: I have no warranty on my bows, so if I die when the bow explodes(willing to take one for advancement)  we will call it a step in the right direction! :aniangel:


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*it really really doesnt!*

I happen to be there when this thing was being tested, and it doesn't! I was amazed. I would be skeptical if I had not seen it with my own eyes, but I did and I can tell you it worlks!


S4 300-60 said:


> It HAS to increase DL and Poundage........I don't see how it can't....it's a good idea, but doesn't seem all that genius to me.....I bet after you installed it, if you set the bow back to the DL and poundage that you were at before the install, you would see no increase......


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## switchraph (Feb 14, 2006)

BigEves34 said:


> I'd like to see the Draw Force Curves for each bow with and without the bowturbow on... I think they'd be very different.
> 
> $60...


yes they would 


imagine a speed bow that already cranks up 350 fps ibo with one of those things i bet ya it'll pull hard as hell


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## Dthbyhoyt (Dec 4, 2004)

:dontknow: Interesting


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## trx125 (Sep 10, 2008)

Sorry, for posting the link! I forgot!


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

this thing sounds perfect for my C3


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## fancycat (Nov 3, 2007)

what is this difference in this add on roller cable guard and the other one that fastpassthrough has been selling in the manufacturers section


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## Rambu (Dec 1, 2008)

fancycat said:


> what is this difference in this add on roller cable guard and the other one that fastpassthrough has been selling in the manufacturers section




with his you get a replacement rod and not just the rollers...lol:darkbeer:


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## davel583 (Sep 16, 2008)

I don't think it's any different than the CCS Martin now sells as an add-on to their 09 bows. The catalog says the CCS add 5 lbs of draw weight over the cable slide. 
This thing looks like nothing more than a clamp on cable roller. $60 bucks is really not that bad though. I could copy it but it would cost more than $60 in time and material.
As an experiment, I'm going to lower my draw weight to 65lbs and use a hose clamp to contain my cable slide on the guide rod. Right now at 70lbs @27" draw w/350 grain arrow I'm getting about 270. Not that good but OK for my Instinct which at this point is expendible.
I'm also going to measure before and after the ATA at full draw. My guess is that the contained slide will cause the limbs to have to "pinch" together closer at full draw to account for the lack of movement of the cables toward the archer. This added limb travel could possibly be where the bow is allowed to release more of the stored energy by having more distance to unload the stored energy.
Something else that comes to mind now; How much force is applied to the cable guard that would want to pull it out of the bow? In other words as you draw the bow back the cable and string being contained have to exert some force on the cable guard in the direction of the archer which is pulling it out of the bow. hmmm. I'd hate to have that carbon rod become a projectile. I'll wear my flak jacket!


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

bigrnyrs said:


> I am a customer at the shop that designed the Bow Turbow. I have seen it tested on several different bows.
> There is a variance in how you you can set it up. In its most extreme setting, the Vectrix Plus it was put on gained maybe 1.5 lbs of peak draw weight. But went from shooting 316 to 346! Set in its normal position, which is where your cable slide is at brace height, it still shot 336 with no increase in poundage. The most common reaction was 1 - 2 lbs of holding weight added to the back end. I know that they measured the limb deflection on a X-Force and the difference at full draw was 1/4 of an inch.
> It icreased speed on every bow I saw it put on. As faras the bows I shot with it on you could not detect any poundage increase. Ofcouse I did not shoot every bow that was tested, but a few. The one thing that you will notice immediatly is that it all but stops cable occilation making every bow we shot with it noticably quieter and reduced any vabration at the shot. It was really awsome to be there when they had working models out trying them. I do not stand to make a single cent on this thing, just happened to be there while it was designed. I was really excited about it.
> I saw a 6 - 7 year old PSE Nitro go from 286 to 318! The guy who owned this bow begged for one but not only did he have to sign a discloser waiver but was told he would have to wait like the rest of us. Heck I shoot for the shop and I was made to do the same thing! I won't have one until the first production! Checkit out guys, I've seen it and I can tell you it works. I geuss by reducing the friction and inefficiancy of the cable guard it makes big changes in a bow.
> I can shoot a heavier target arrow at less poundage for 3-D and get mad kenetic energy out of my hunting rig at lower poundage as well!



"I cannot break the laws of physics, Captain!"

This thing is neither reducing friction or increasing efficiency of the cable guard, it is affecting the limbs and increasing the draw weight, hold weight and possible the draw length. There is absolutely no magic here, just playing the tolerances game just like working on a car. Most vehicles are made to perform safely and as efficiently as possible for most conditions. Yes, you can tune them to get better performance, but you risk the reliability of the vehicle. Same thing in this case. You will most likely get better performance, but at the same time you increase the possibility of failure, either partial or catastrophic.

So take your bow that is maxed out at 70lbs and throw this on. What effect does it have on the limbs that are now effectively holding close to 80lbs?:set1_thinking: How many shots can/will you be able to get off now that you are exceeding the performance boundaries of your bow? Just cause your car can go 8000rpm doesn't mean you should run it there all the time. You may not ever see a problem or it may blow up on the first shot.

Simply put....if you want a faster bow....go lift weights and get stronger!


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

switchraph said:


> yes they would
> 
> 
> imagine a speed bow that already cranks up 350 fps ibo with one of those things i bet ya it'll pull hard as hell


They already make one....it's called a crossbow....:darkbeer:


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

davel583 said:


> I don't think it's any different than the CCS Martin now sells as an add-on to their 09 bows. The catalog says the CCS add 5 lbs of draw weight over the cable slide.
> This thing looks like nothing more than a clamp on cable roller. $60 bucks is really not that bad though. I could copy it but it would cost more than $60 in time and material.
> As an experiment, I'm going to lower my draw weight to 65lbs and use a hose clamp to contain my cable slide on the guide rod. Right now at 70lbs @27" draw w/350 grain arrow I'm getting about 270. Not that good but OK for my Instinct which at this point is expendible.
> I'm also going to measure before and after the ATA at full draw. My guess is that the contained slide will cause the limbs to have to "pinch" together closer at full draw to account for the lack of movement of the cables toward the archer. This added limb travel could possibly be where the bow is allowed to release more of the stored energy by having more distance to unload the stored energy.
> Something else that comes to mind now; How much force is applied to the cable guard that would want to pull it out of the bow? In other words as you draw the bow back the cable and string being contained have to exert some force on the cable guard in the direction of the archer which is pulling it out of the bow. hmmm. I'd hate to have that carbon rod become a projectile. I'll wear my flak jacket!


Jackpot!!!! We have a winner!


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*safe to say Scott Barret will not be ordering one*

Never seen one, or tested one, yet knows exactly what it will and will not do to a bow. And even though I have seen one, shot bows with them on and off and was there as it was tested, I'm wrong. So what I gather from that is that I'm lying. That's cool, everyone but Scott Barret, you guys should give it a chance before declaring it a scam.


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## fancycat (Nov 3, 2007)

im not saying it is a scam i just have not heard anyone actually prove that it does not add too my draw length or increase poundage on my bow everybody just keeps saying it makes it faster and when we ask questions you beat around the bush and say i saw it it made the bow faster well cool.how?


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## Dthbyhoyt (Dec 4, 2004)

bigrnyrs said:


> Never seen one, or tested one, yet knows exactly what it will and will not do to a bow. And even though I have seen one, shot bows with them on and off and was there as it was tested, I'm wrong. So what I gather from that is that I'm lying. That's cool, everyone but Scott Barret, you guys should give it a chance before declaring it a scam.[/QUOTE
> 
> I woud love to try one , pm me for my address , and upon it 20 -25 fps more I will be happy to send $60.00


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*go back and read agian*



fancycat said:


> im not saying it is a scam i just have not heard anyone actually prove that it does not add too my draw length or increase poundage on my bow everybody just keeps saying it makes it faster and when we ask questions you beat around the bush and say i saw it it made the bow faster well cool.how?


I never beat around the bush. In this thread and in the thread in the manufacters section, Alligood, hounddog, and I said quite directly that the Bow Turbow at its most extreme setiing increased poundage on some of the test bows 1 to 2 pounds. That the most common effect was a , addition of 1 to 2 pounds of holding weight on the back end of the let off. That draw lenghts were not changed. I do not think that is being vague or beating around the bush. I'm not sure what else I can say. And yes it increased speed, but what really suprised me was the decrease in bow noise and vibration.
I simply do not know what else I can tell you. Don't get one if you don't want one. 
What else can I do??????
I do not have anything to do with the company, I just happen to know the guys who came up with it. I had my own concerns and questions, but was fortune enuff to be able to see, touch, and feel the think. I can only tell you what I saw. Sorry that's not good enuff.


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## fletched (May 10, 2006)

Common sense tells you it has to change something. You can't get an increase in speed if it doesn't. I ordered one to see exactly what it does. To get 20-30 fps increase, you will have to increase the draw length by 2-3 inches or the poundage by 6-10 pounds. Or increase the draw length by 1 inch and the poundage by 3-4 pounds. I wouldn't imagine it will throw the draw length and poundage out that much. It does something else to get the speed. I just don't know quite yet. I'll soon find out.


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## fancycat (Nov 3, 2007)

no that is fine maybe i am slow i just cannot wrap my head around how it actually works i guess i will be more patient and wait to see how it goes for everyone it just seems like just a ccs


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## drockw (Sep 3, 2008)

I think its great and am happy for them. My gf, has the exact same diamond edge as joella? tested at 24" of draw adn 40#. 205-238!!! I think i know what im getting her for xmas lol!Now she could easily hunt with that bow and be just fine.
Derek


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## SaskArcher10 (Apr 8, 2006)

Any plans to get some up to Canada? I've got an 06 Allegiance, so that shouldn't be a problem for fitting my bow, what about with a whisker biscuit tho? Tried one with that rest? Any negatives, or differences? and how about pictures?


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## jdduffy (Sep 19, 2006)

S4 300-60 said:


> It HAS to increase DL and Poundage........I don't see how it can't....it's a good idea, but doesn't seem all that genius to me.....I bet after you installed it, if you set the bow back to the DL and poundage that you were at before the install, you would see no increase......


that's what I'm thinking! not to mention the cam lean it may cause on some binary cam bows pulling the cams foward and down.


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

I did a test , took a bow from the rack , a bow which is equipped with a roller cable guard .

With the RCG it had 46lbs at 26" draw , then i put the cables out of the rollers , and ?

It had 39lbs and a draw of 25.5" 

So , if the initial setup , with a standard Cable guard would be 39/25.5 , then ( with the use of a RCG ) i would increase the draw weight at 7 lbs , i would increase the draw lenght at 1/2 inch , and this would increase the speed somewhere around 20 fps


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## JWT (Jan 3, 2006)

*i just can't figure out..*

why there is such a negitive response to what would be a great advantage for a short draw archer or a 12 year old in a tree stand. to be able to increase KE for a kid trying to tag his or her first deer sounds to me to be a good thing.

my hat is off to these guys for coming up with it. How many of us have been sitting around the archery shop talking about making a sight, stabilizer, etc. these guys followed through and I hope it does everything they say, and i wish them the best.

OK... now let me have it.


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## DanDaMan (Aug 24, 2004)

I cant find their site. What I have googled just about every variation I can think of and it doesn't come up. What is the site!


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## charles (Dec 23, 2003)

*Hum*

The site is there... but you cant see any pictures of this tool or any instructions... :thumbs_do


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## alligood729 (Mar 25, 2007)

Scott.Barrett said:


> "I cannot break the laws of physics, Captain!"
> 
> This thing is neither reducing friction or increasing efficiency of the cable guard, it is affecting the limbs and increasing the draw weight, hold weight and possible the draw length. There is absolutely no magic here, just playing the tolerances game just like working on a car. Most vehicles are made to perform safely and as efficiently as possible for most conditions. Yes, you can tune them to get better performance, but you risk the reliability of the vehicle. Same thing in this case. You will most likely get better performance, but at the same time you increase the possibility of failure, either partial or catastrophic.
> 
> ...


Brother, I got news for you. You can say what you will, or think what you will, but this thing doesn't add any noticeable anything! The logic everyone presents sounds good, but you weren't there to see it work. I was. I have one on my bow. My 60lb X Force, that was shooting 295fps at 60 and 27", is now shooting 310fps, at a whopping 61.5 lbs peak weight, measured and documented on the pull scale. 15fps and only 1.5lb increase?? And no increase in draw length. How many bows have you seen that would max out on the limb bolts, 3-5lbs heavier than the spec weight? Is it so hard to think that someone might have finally put a few things together in one package that really works? I have seen it also where we turned the lbs down, and were still able to maintain present speed with lower poundage. I understand the skepticism, but I don't have any, I am part of the team!!!
As far as the comparison to the "other" after market cable roller out there, I might be wrong, but it looks like to me that the bow would have to be pressed, and restrung with the cables thru the bar in front of the rollers. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Ours installs in under a minute. 
It's for real. I have one. Get yours!!


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

bigrnyrs said:


> Never seen one, or tested one, yet knows exactly what it will and will not do to a bow. And even though I have seen one, shot bows with them on and off and was there as it was tested, I'm wrong. So what I gather from that is that I'm lying. That's cool, everyone but Scott Barret, you guys should give it a chance before declaring it a scam.


Not saying it is a scam, but when YOU come online and say that it does all of this without changing how the bow operates, YOU are flat out lying. Did YOU somehow forget how a bow works? Are YOU a representative of the product/company? 

You shot one, you tested one, but can't explain how it works?!?!? If I was the manufacturer, I would not want YOU as the person trying to get my product into the market as you don't have all the details, so it is coming off as snake oil!

Do I think it is a good idea? Yes, I do....it will probably let someone who has outgrown a bow or just wants to get some more speed out of it to do so without spending a tremendous amount of money. That is innovative! Used responsibly, it should do the job and be well worth the money. I can see these being used heavily on the 3D circuit and in hunting to get that extra bit of speed without shelling out a bunch of money for crazy light arrows or even a new bow. This could easily take a target bow up to 3D speeds....

This is going to have to stand the test of time. People will have to buy it and we'll have to see how the bows hold up. If you believe in it now, buy stock in the company....could make you a millionaire!


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*ok lets see*

Scott Barret seems to have a bur in his saddle over this thing. He has more post on this thread than anybody. I just don't understand why it is so important to discredit the Bow Turbo. 
Davel583 prolly not going to order one, and switchraph prolly won't have one either. Dthbyhoyt is a regular dick tracy, he ordered one, not cause he wants one on his bow, but determined to discredit.
Why, why, why do guys jump on here and simply want to prove everybody wrong about everything. If you look it is normally the same guys on any given thread being negative.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

alligood729 said:


> Brother, I got news for you. You can say what you will, or think what you will, but this thing doesn't add any noticeable anything! The logic everyone presents sounds good, but you weren't there to see it work. I was. I have one on my bow. My 60lb X Force, that was shooting 295fps at 60 and 27", is now shooting 310fps, at a whopping 61.5 lbs peak weight, measured and documented on the pull scale. 15fps and only 1.5lb increase?? And no increase in draw length. How many bows have you seen that would max out on the limb bolts, 3-5lbs heavier than the spec weight? Is it so hard to think that someone might have finally put a few things together in one package that really works? I have seen it also where we turned the lbs down, and were still able to maintain present speed with lower poundage. I understand the skepticism, but I don't have any, I am part of the team!!!
> As far as the comparison to the "other" after market cable roller out there, I might be wrong, but it looks like to me that the bow would have to be pressed, and restrung with the cables thru the bar in front of the rollers. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Ours installs in under a minute.
> It's for real. I have one. Get yours!!



I agree, but lets call it what it is....it increases the draw weight AND the hold weight! I have no problem with that, I just want everyone to realize that this speed increase does not come free, the cost is the additional draw weight at the minimum. If you can't pull the max of your bow, this ain't gonna help....


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

bigrnyrs said:


> Scott Barret seems to have a bur in his saddle over this thing. He has more post on this thread than anybody. I just don't understand why it is so important to discredit the Bow Turbo.
> Davel583 prolly not going to order one, and switchraph prolly won't have one either. Dthbyhoyt is a regular dick tracy, he ordered one, not cause he wants one on his bow, but determined to discredit.
> Why, why, why do guys jump on here and simply want to prove everybody wrong about everything. If you look it is normally the same guys on any given thread being negative.


Look at my total post count, I am relatively new to the site....

The only "burr" that I have is YOU thinking that you could hoodwink the people of this site when YOU are just someone who has shot it once or twice and not smart enough to know how it works. If you're so "in" with the company, how come you don't have one? Does the company realize how much negative press this thread is going to cause because of your potential misrepresentation of the product? This thread will pop up every time someone does a search!

My issue here is not with the product....it is with you being the snake oil salesman....:mg:


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## nccrutch (Feb 26, 2003)

i just want to see a clear picture of this thing. i've watched the videos, but can't see what it is.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

nccrutch said:


> i just want to see a clear picture of this thing. i've watched the videos, but can't see what it is.



The important part is "...make sure the two set screws are tight...".

When it does not move, the limbs have to compensate by pulling down more. Pulling those down farther requires more force, hence a higher draw and holding weight.


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*ok i sorry, i did not mean to get into a public p****ng match with anyone*

So let me set the record so that there is no confusion.
I do not "represent" Bow Turbo. I have seen it. I jave shot bows with it on. It has on some bows increased poundage by 1 - 2 lbs, but not in every case. It does increase holding weight, by and average of 1.5 pounds. It has not changed draw lenght on the bows I shot. I think its a great little product, I hope you guys give it a try.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

bigrnyrs said:


> So let me set the record so that there is no confusion.
> I do not "represent" Bow Turbo. I have seen it. I jave shot bows with it on. It has on some bows increased poundage by 1 - 2 lbs, but not in every case. It does increase holding weight, by and average of 1.5 pounds. It has not changed draw lenght on the bows I shot. I think its a great little product, I hope you guys give it a try.


I agree completely...:smile:

I think we have talked this out enough that everyone understands how it works. If you are holding extra weight, you have to draw more to hold more and factor in the letoff.


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## BamaBowTech (Dec 1, 2008)

I really doubt that any of these guys have shot one. Look at how it is used. There is no way it increases draw weight. I simply replaces the roller. Many have been out that does the same thing. It just reduces friction, Thats all.
It does add more pre draw tention to the string but no additional torque to the limb. No peak weight can be added this way! Just look at the web site for the bowturbow dot com and view the utube videos. I really don't think they doctored the videos. 
I will have to witness the test to see for myself but I think it does work as described. Just like all the other cable roller work.


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## drtnshtr (Jan 20, 2003)

By the sounds of it these guys will sell a million of them just for curiosity


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## Dugga Boy (Apr 21, 2003)

I have a different point on that:


Why not Tiffany or Laura??!!!:tongue:


Why Joella??!!

:zip:

DB


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## cal74 (Nov 28, 2008)

JWT said:


> why there is such a negitive response to what would be a great advantage for a short draw archer or a 12 year old in a tree stand. to be able to increase KE for a kid trying to tag his or her first deer sounds to me to be a good thing.
> 
> my hat is off to these guys for coming up with it. How many of us have been sitting around the archery shop talking about making a sight, stabilizer, etc. these guys followed through and I hope it does everything they say, and i wish them the best.
> 
> OK... now let me have it.




I agree, kudo's to someone for trying to improve on something.

And I've been seeing this thing on a few sites and over and over again there's someone that keeps posting that it's got to increase the draw length and draw weight significantly to pull off these gains. 

20-30+ fps increase for a 1-2lb increase in draw weight, good enough trade off.

And I doubht they'd try to market something like this, especially with several first hand accounts if it was a gadget that was adding 2-3" of draw length.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy this or anything else, but at least read the full posts of others before you post the same repeated doubts over and over again.


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## PMantle (Feb 15, 2004)

cal74 said:


> And I doubht they'd try to market something like this, especially with several first hand accounts if it was a gadget that was *adding 2-3" of draw length*.


You can see it in the last video. Think about it this way, are all the bows that now use a roller guard reaching their speeds just because of the roller guard? Would they really be that much slower if converted to a slide? Something has to change. There is no free lunch.


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## WNY Bowhunter (Aug 29, 2004)

Dugga Boy said:


> I have a different point on that:
> 
> 
> Why not Tiffany or Laura??!!!:tongue:
> ...


Now that's funny right there...hahaha !!! Not too funny though, cause she shoots an 85# bow and might be reading this. Honestly, she looks like she could probably tackle a cape buffalo and kill it with a knife...:mg:!

I think I might try one of these babies on my GT500.


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## Justin17 (May 4, 2006)

BamaBowTech said:


> I really doubt that any of these guys have shot one. Look at how it is used. There is no way it increases draw weight. I simply replaces the roller. Many have been out that does the same thing. It just reduces friction, Thats all.
> It does add more pre draw tention to the string but no additional torque to the limb. No peak weight can be added this way! Just look at the web site for the bowturbow dot com and view the utube videos. I really don't think they doctored the videos.
> I will have to witness the test to see for myself but I think it does work as described. Just like all the other cable roller work.


You couldn't be more wrong. Those bows that come with the roller are designed to be used with the roller. Those bows' draw lengths and draw weights are designed to be used with a roller. If they were interchangeable you would see bows with optional roller guards. 

You don't know how a bow works. You don't gain 30 fps by reducing friction from a teflon cable guard. You get 30 fps by making the draw length longer and increasing draw weight. If you knew anything about how a bow works you would know that shortenng the cable increases draw length and weight. Guess what this product does. Shortens the cable(s). 

You're going to end up buying one of these because you completely believe and trust all websites. Do me a favor and check your draw weight and, more importantly, your draw length before and after you install this thing and let everyone know your results.


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## GIG (Dec 20, 2007)

jdduffy said:


> that's what I'm thinking! not to mention the cam lean it may cause on some binary cam bows pulling the cams foward and down.


I think it will change the force draw on the bow. and Also more stress on the limbs. we hear at limbsaver have done this on our speed bow but the poundage did go up. And the timing of your cams may change.Our new speed-zone bow shoots 348 to 350 ibo with out loading up the cables. But that said i would still like to see some testing. give me draw wt. be for and after. check timing of Cam's and draw length. when we loaded the cables it did change our draw length GARY SIMS LIMBSAVER


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## Rambu (Dec 1, 2008)

ok i just test the theroy.. i clamped the slide forward.. about 1/2in... using a dig scale and a draw board this is what i got...


before.. 28.5in 67lbs......

after 28 7/8 71lbs i did not shoot it due to not wanting to wreck something..


so seeing i did not have one but still held the strings forward like it does i am going to claim bull... with all the work these guys are doing to sell this y will they not post the measured weight and lengths after??? cause they know what it does... 

i feel bad for anyone that spent the $60 thinking it was only going to make the bow faster...


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## 442fps (Dec 23, 2003)

GIG said:


> I think it will change the force draw on the bow. and Also more stress on the limbs. we hear at limbsaver have done this on our speed bow but the poundage did go up. And the timing of your cams may change.Our new speed-zone bow shoots 348 to 350 ibo with out loading up the cables. But that said i would still like to see some testing. give me draw wt. be for and after. check timing of Cam's and draw length. when we loaded the cables it did change our draw length GARY SIMS LIMBSAVER



@GIG

If i put one onto one of your bows , will i still have warranty ?


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## PMantle (Feb 15, 2004)

wideerhunt said:


> before.. 28.5in 67lbs......
> 
> after 28 7/8 71lbs i did not shoot it due to not wanting to wreck something..


Although I am as skeptical as anyone, less than 1/2" increase in draw, and 4 lbs increase in weight is not all that bad. I'm not good with the conversion stuff, so I have to ask, what would the speed increase be by just changing those parameters and not using the device?


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## Rambu (Dec 1, 2008)

PMantle said:


> Although I am as skeptical as anyone, less than 1/2" increase in draw, and 4 lbs increase in weight is not all that bad. I'm not good with the conversion stuff, so I have to ask, what would the speed increase be by just changing those parameters and not using the device?


keep in mind i only had the cables 1/2in forward from rest.. in the vids that are at least an inch or more... 

by increasing the length 1/2in and adding 4lbs normally on a bow you will gain 12 to 18 fps.. depending on your bow....


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

wideerhunt said:


> ok i just test the theroy.. i clamped the slide forward.. about 1/2in... using a dig scale and a draw board this is what i got...
> 
> 
> before.. 28.5in 67lbs......
> ...


My concern is not the draw weight difference of 4 pounds.
I shoot 26"DL and 70# limbs.
I could go down to a 60# bow and add the roller pretty easily.

My bigger concern is the DL.
I am a real 26", add another inch and it is too long.
Even 1/2" might be too long.

I hear people saying they did not have to change their D/L.
That might be true in that they did not change their module/cam.
But, did they maintain their draw form exactly?


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## PMantle (Feb 15, 2004)

Shaman said:


> My bigger concern is the DL.
> I am a real 26", add another inch and it is too long.
> Even 1/2" might be too long.


Same here. I'm at 27" right now, and if I posted a pic, I'm betting over 75% of the responses would say I was too long.


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## Out West (Mar 6, 2008)

*Bow Turbow*

Interesting product. I only wish I could see a close up picture of it. The only thing I don't like about it so far is that it will damage or marr up your cable rod with those set screws, in case you ever wanted to go back to original.


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## GIG (Dec 20, 2007)

*Warranty ?*



442fps said:


> @GIG
> 
> If i put one onto one of your bows , will i still have warranty ?


We would need to test this for 15 to 20,000 shots to see if we could warranty our bows. so if it pass yes. If not no. gary sims limbsaver


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## LeadSled1 (Jan 3, 2008)

I want to post a concern I have with this product. I am not bashing it as I think some of it may have some merit.



This device does not have anything in front of the rollers as we can see in the video. The cables can be routed over the device by hand.

This device at full draw will have a lot of load on the slide rod pulling it rearward. 

You are also putting a lot of stress in the area the device is locked on to the rod with the set screws. Carbon does not react well to this as it is a lot of pressure in a small area. 

These rods were never meant to take these kinds of forces, in these directions.

When a bow is fully drawn and you are anchored, the slide rod is located closely in line to the eye. 

If the rod were to either slip out of the riser, fracture at the set screws in the riser or the set screws on the device, that rod is going to come straight back at your face (area of the eye) at a very high rate of speed. The cables are going to return to their normal position. With nothing to hold the device to the cable it is going to continue a rearward motion once the cables stop. You now have a rearward traveling "arrow". 

When anchored you align your eye with the string, with nothing holding the cables to the slide after a rod failure the rod and cables will also return to centerline. I believe there is a good posibility you could take what is left of the rod, along with the device into the eye area. 



Just voicing my concerns and I hope you look in to this. Not trying to be the voice of doom.


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## Rambu (Dec 1, 2008)

Shaman said:


> My concern is not the draw weight difference of 4 pounds.
> I shoot 26"DL and 70# limbs.
> I could go down to a 60# bow and add the roller pretty easily.
> 
> ...


the thing is most people when drawing and shooting a bow can not tell the diff... after shooting a few more shots they may notice it.. the only way to tell what the product does is to use a draw board and measure.. the aravage guy testing at a shop for a few shots will not notice a 1/2 draw length... some might.. but they are blinded by the speed for a bit.. let them shoot it for a hour... i bet when you take it off and shoot again they say... my draw feels short...


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## JC280 (Jul 22, 2002)

GIG said:


> We would need to test this for 15 to 20,000 shots to see if we could warranty our bows. so if it pass yes. If not no. gary sims limbsaver




Are you sure you know what you are talking about?


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## bowhunter96 (Nov 13, 2005)

This thread is informative and humorous . 

It really isn't Rocket Science . Less friction with a tad more draw weight yada yada ... Winner's Choice had a cable slide out a few years ago that was 20+ dollars guaranteed to increase 10 or so FPS . You had to lube it or it would sqeak and jump on the slide . I bought one and it did work . I was out hunting one day and it rained . I didn't have my lube , drew on a big whitetail buck and *"Squeak" * . :mg: Needless to say he ran for the next county . 

I applaud them and will wait to see if they work . I'm alway tinkering with my bows to increase speed . How does Crackers get extra speed out of bow ?? It isn't magic , but knowledge  . Dave


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## brian smith (Sep 27, 2007)

can anyone post a picture of it. Tha admin took off the websight its on.


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## drockw (Sep 3, 2008)

^there isnt a pic on the website yet.

If i were to get one i would retune my bow to accomodate the bowturbow. Just because it changes somethings (i.e. draw weight, length) doesnt mean you are stuck with that. that why we can change draw all of that stuff on the bows. that is why their are dots on teh cams, so you can tune them. I believe that this product will work just like it shows but... you will definately need to measure everything before and after, and readjust the bow. THat is why we all know so much on here, so we can make them perform at their best. its just like any other performance change. we have to be able to adapt to those other changes, surely to god we can adapt to this (if you choose to use one).

as far as the stress adn whatever, if you dont want to use one, dont. if you are thinking the cable slide rod is going to come out of the back of the bow adn poke you in the eye, dont use this product. simple enough right? wrong... this is just like Mathews releasing the Monster XLR8. the majority wanted a speed bow, they brought out a speed bow adn whatdya know, we all hate and criticize it to shame before its even out yet Im not for or against this product and i might try one after its been out for a while but why do the people who say they will never use this bow deforming contraption continue to post? just drop it guys and let it all happen b/c what you post doesnt matter. the people who want to try this and arent knowlegeable enough to figure out what it does to the bow, let em do it. if they get a blown up bow, or poked in the eye, that is their fault for putting this thing on without knowing what happens and what the possible outcomes are. none of you on here have used it or even seen it (just like the Monster) so why keep trying to predict what is going to happen? not trying to sound like the voice of reason or anything, but we are taking this all out of context. wusaaaaaa 
Derek


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## spot&dot (Nov 4, 2003)

so by adding 1 to 2lbs of holding weight is this adding draw weight or reducing letoff? 6lbs of draw weight would be 2lbs of holding weight. If I'm a 3D shooter and I'm already at 5gr/lb this isn't going to help me correct? Is this gear more toward a hunter looking for some extra speed?


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## rkjtg (Dec 27, 2006)

Is it bowturbow.com or bowturbo.net?


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## HOKIEHUNTER07 (Oct 4, 2005)

spot&dot said:


> so by adding 1 to 2lbs of holding weight is this adding draw weight or reducing letoff? 6lbs of draw weight would be 2lbs of holding weight. If I'm a 3D shooter and I'm already at 5gr/lb this isn't going to help me correct? Is this gear more toward a hunter looking for some extra speed?


along those lines... 1.5 pounds of holding weight at 80% letoff equates to 7.5 lbs of draw weight. 7.5 lbs of draw weight equates to about 22.5 fps...

Not trying to bash I just thought those number were interesting. I would love it if this thing works but I'll hold off until I can see exactly what it does and other people's experiences with it.


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## stinky1 (Feb 20, 2003)

rkjtg said:


> Is it bowturbow.com or bowturbo.net?


http://bowturbow.com/


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## Hit-em (Oct 3, 2002)

alligood729 said:


> Brother, I got news for you. You can say what you will, or think what you will, but this thing doesn't add any noticeable anything! The logic everyone presents sounds good, but you weren't there to see it work. I was. I have one on my bow. My 60lb X Force, that was shooting 295fps at 60 and 27", is now shooting 310fps, at a whopping 61.5 lbs peak weight, measured and documented on the pull scale. 15fps and only 1.5lb increase?? And no increase in draw length. How many bows have you seen that would max out on the limb bolts, 3-5lbs heavier than the spec weight? Is it so hard to think that someone might have finally put a few things together in one package that really works? I have seen it also where we turned the lbs down, and were still able to maintain present speed with lower poundage. I understand the skepticism, but I don't have any, I am part of the team!!!
> As far as the comparison to the "other" after market cable roller out there, I might be wrong, but it looks like to me that the bow would have to be pressed, and restrung with the cables thru the bar in front of the rollers. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Ours installs in under a minute.
> It's for real. I have one. Get yours!!


I looked at the videos & decided to order one, I figured what the hey I've spent more money on a good hangover :darkbeer:

The only concern I do have is what might be the long term effect on my bow ??

The other thing I was wondering ...What is the purpose of locking down the 2 screws ??? What does that do ??

It would be nice to actually see what a Bowturbo looks like ??
Can you share a actual picture of what I'm buying ????


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

wideerhunt said:


> the thing is most people when drawing and shooting a bow can not tell the diff... after shooting a few more shots they may notice it.. the only way to tell what the product does is to use a draw board and measure.. the aravage guy testing at a shop for a few shots will not notice a 1/2 draw length... some might.. but they are blinded by the speed for a bit.. let them shoot it for a hour... i bet when you take it off and shoot again they say... my draw feels short...


Which is why I said I was a 'real' 26". I'm not a 27" who likes a nice relaxed super flexed arm, meaning a 26" mod with this on it would bring me back out to 27" 

I can certainly tell when I am pulling a 1/2in. more.
My anchor point would set behind my ear instead of the indent of my jaw.

So, I'd really need to know what this thing does to DL.
Eventually we need to see this thing on a draw board and/or hooter shooter with draw force mapping to show its true effects.


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## steve_T (Mar 11, 2007)

so if it makes your limbs flex more than they do without anything on it then wouldnt it kind of be like over pressing your bow? Until they are approved by the MFG you wont find it on my bow.


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## bowtech dually (Mar 10, 2003)

bigrnyrs said:


> I never beat around the bush. In this thread and in the thread in the manufacters section, Alligood, hounddog, and I said quite directly that the Bow Turbow at its most extreme setiing increased poundage on some of the test bows 1 to 2 pounds. That the most common effect was a , addition of 1 to 2 pounds of holding weight on the back end of the let off. That draw lenghts were not changed. I do not think that is being vague or beating around the bush. I'm not sure what else I can say. And yes it increased speed, but what really suprised me was the decrease in bow noise and vibration.
> I simply do not know what else I can tell you. Don't get one if you don't want one.
> What else can I do??????
> I do not have anything to do with the company, I just happen to know the guys who came up with it. I had my own concerns and questions, but was fortune enuff to be able to see, touch, and feel the think. I can only tell you what I saw. Sorry that's not good enuff.


Is the 2 pounds of holding weight the same as 6 pounds of draw weight due to the 65% letoff, I notice you are always talking holding weight.

BD


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## GIG (Dec 20, 2007)

Scott.Barrett said:


> The important part is "...make sure the two set screws are tight...".
> 
> When it does not move, the limbs have to compensate by pulling down more. Pulling those down farther requires more force, hence a higher draw and holding weight.


Scott i think your right on . Nothing comes for free. THE NEW LIMBSAVER DEADZONE has a fix cable slide a hard mt. but our cams we made for it. we need to see more testing on this i hope it works. but tell us the pro and cons so we know what needs to be done to our bows. I would hope they have been testing this thing on bows for a year be for they let it out.


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## bowtech dually (Mar 10, 2003)

PMantle said:


> Although I am as skeptical as anyone, less than 1/2" increase in draw, and 4 lbs increase in weight is not all that bad. I'm not good with the conversion stuff, so I have to ask, what would the speed increase be by just changing those parameters and not using the device?


I am neutral in this one , but that's with the cables 1/2" forward. We dont know how far forward they are moving the cables to get their results. It would be great if they would make a video showing the draw length and peak weight for before and after to go along with the speed readings, however their market will be much larger than the Archery Talk crowd and they are probably wise not to give out too much info.

BD


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## swwiff (Oct 9, 2008)

*Letoff changing or poundage?*

If it is changing the hold wt by 1.5 lbs there are a couple of ways to make that happen.

The most obvious? It bumps the bows pull wt up from 70 to 78lbs assuming you have a 80% letoff.

Or it is changeing the letoff.

Only way to know is see a force curve.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

GIG said:


> Scott i think your right on . Nothing comes for free. THE NEW LIMBSAVER DEADZONE has a fix cable slide a hard mt. but our cams we made for it. we need to see more testing on this i hope it works. but tell us the pro and cons so we know what needs to be done to our bows. I would hope they have been testing this thing on bows for a year be for they let it out.


I'm sure it it work fine if the rest of the system is designed for it. The cables can't move fore and aft, so stronger limbs and possibly riser are needed.

It's kind of like putting a supercharger on a stock V8. If you don't rebuild the crank, pistons and other stuff to handle it, it's gonna blow.....


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## Andreas (Jan 7, 2004)

Come on everyone beeing so positive about this!
Let's face the facts:
1. A roller guard won't make your bow 10% more effecitve. If so all bows would have a roller guard no matter the patent costs. It's a cheap price to pay in this matter.
2. If it doesen't increase efficiency, what does it do? Either the weight is increased, or, the DL is changed, or a combo of both (which is reasonable making the cables shorter att full draw). It doesen't make your arrows lighter, thats for sure.

3. Fastpass obviously knew what this was all about, but he did get clear with all the facts, increased DL and poundage. But most of all, he announced a product with the same functionality. At the same time there were teasers abut this. He knew it was all about the same thing.

Again this product do have a feature to add to archery but it's, not speed. The add is adjustability of draw weight and draw lenght in a different way. Let's face it, that is all there is.
If this product was so much a revolution it claims to be, you would have seen a draw force mapper for the results. A lot more information than any of the current videos. Guess what, a draw force curve before and after will give all the answers about the speed increase!

Yes I am dissapointed about this product beeing announced as a completely new thing. It's not, don't try to tell it is, not without the actual data - A map prooving the stored energy in relation the DL.

What I cannot believe is people beeing excited about this, representative or not, they are in the wrong business if they do not know why the speed increase. 
Don't believe me?
Press your current calbe slide an inch thowards the bow and add a bunch of tape unto your cable guard preventing it from sliding backwards during draw (it will only cost you some tape.....). Let me know what happens to the speed. ...
If the weels on the roller wasn't round but more of adapted for maximum cam efficiency I might have agreed with the thougt, still, this is something else.


This product isn't changing the laws of physicts, it's just a proof the laws of physics can't be changed, no matter the marketing method. Just buy it if you like the idea or if you have your bow maxed out already and really want some more speed. Just don't believe the hype. Beacuse hype is all there is.


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## rkjtg (Dec 27, 2006)

I like how in the one video they put a litle rubber stopper on the end if the cable slide. I think it is going to hurt someone. I know it won't be me.

I am not hung up on speed and don't understand why so many people are.
I agree with the previous post 100%. Lets see some daw weight numbers before and after. I think that you will find the "secret" right there.

I am not bashing in any way I am just putting in my .02.

Good luck with the idea.:darkbeer:


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## wis_archer (Jul 27, 2007)

rkjtg said:


> I like how in the one video they put a litle rubber stopper on the end if the cable slide. I think it is going to hurt someone. I know it won't be me.
> 
> I am not hung up on speed and don't understand why so many people are.
> I agree with the previous post 100%. Lets see some daw weight numbers before and after. I think that you will find the "secret" right there.
> ...


And Draw length, the woman in the video must have at the very least an inch more of draw length.....just look at the first and second shot, look at how far the tip of the arrow sticks out.


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*just because let off changes does not automatically mean draw weight changes*

When I put the 65 percent mods on my cam.5, the draw weight does not increase by 14 lbs.
I tell you what though, I wish I was as smart as some you guys. Man if only I could not really see something, not use it, not have it to try, but knowing just what its going to do. Tell you what it will and will not do. How it will mess up, put your eyeballs out ect. Come up with all that new age math like, if your let off increases 2 lbs, then your draw weight goes up 7 lbs. Wow, you see I must be crazy, cause all along I thought that you could change the let off of a bow without changing the draw weight. Like when I changed the 80 percent mods on my cam.5 for the 65 percent ones. I didÑt notice the change in my draw weight that had to be there cause you can't have one without the other. But then again, I might have been "blinded with speed". Heck, I wouldn't know when my draw length changed like 2", you think I'd notice but appearntly, I can't.
Ever notice that some people take a simple concept and after over thinking it ten fold, makes it over complicated, and can come up with problems and attributes that are mostly just a waste of time and really don't amount to much if given their proper due.


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## Byron (May 14, 2005)

Not sure why so many are focused on only two points in the draw cycle - peak weight and letoff/draw length. The _entire_ force/draw curves need to be compared. I'll pretty much guarantee that the difference in areas under the two curves more than covers the increased KE (via increased speed) of the arrow. Until proven otherwise, this is overhyped snake oil sold as a new concept. Disappointing tactic that will, unfortunately and undoubtedly, be rewarded with profit.


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## outbackarcher (Oct 31, 2005)

bigrnyrs said:


> When I put the 65 percent mods on my cam.5, the draw weight does not increase by 14 lbs.
> I tell you what though, I wish I was as smart as some you guys. Man if only I could not really see something, not use it, not have it to try, but knowing just what its going to do. Tell you what it will and will not do. How it will mess up, put your eyeballs out ect. Come up with all that new age math like, if your let off increases 2 lbs, then your draw weight goes up 7 lbs. Wow, you see I must be crazy, cause all along I thought that you could change the let off of a bow without changing the draw weight. Like when I changed the 80 percent mods on my cam.5 for the 65 percent ones. I didÑt notice the change in my draw weight that had to be there cause you can't have one without the other. But then again, I might have been "blinded with speed". Heck, I wouldn't know when my draw length changed like 2", you think I'd notice but appearntly, I can't.
> Ever notice that some people take a simple concept and after over thinking it ten fold, makes it over complicated, and can come up with problems and attributes that are mostly just a waste of time and really don't amount to much if given their proper due.



Dude, they are all using what we all saw in the video. You can't tell me that when Joella shot the kids bow after the turbow was installed that the draw wasn't longer. Just look at where the arrow was. The cause of why that happened is pretty simple, she put to much preload on the cables. This caused the cables to be shorter and the draw to be longer. 
I think that when someone gets a turbow it is going to take some playing around with to get it right. Me for one on my target bow would not want an extra 1/8" or more draw however, on my hunting bow I may be able to stand 1/8" of longer draw. I think you could keep the drawlength change minimal by watching the amount of preload on the cables and maybe by twisting the string a little. But then what kind of speeds are we going to see. These guys or fastpassthru one, since they both have the same product, should do some testing and let everyone see the results.
One more thing when you put 65% mods on your bow the letoff is affected because the cams don't quite roll over as far thus giving you less letoff. This is why if you put your bow on a draw board the draw is slightly shorter with the 65% mods. The affects of the turbow are totally different than just changing your mods.


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## 537 (Jul 1, 2003)

This does work , but just as everyone is suggesting it adds draw weight and poundage. This idea is not new it has been tested by several bow companies for at least 5 years and it adds as much as 8 pounds and as much as 3/4" draw length depending on how much load you put on the cables.

With that said it is possible that todays bows ,with much less limb tip movement will not be effected as much.

Steve and Bernard are both great guys and I wish them the best of luck with this. Maybe the have found some improvements to the patents that have been issued on this concept.


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

bigrnyrs said:


> When I put the 65 percent mods on my cam.5, the draw weight does not increase by 14 lbs.
> *I tell you what though, I wish I was as smart as some you guys.* Man if only I could not really see something, not use it, not have it to try, but knowing just what its going to do. Tell you what it will and will not do. How it will mess up, put your eyeballs out ect. Come up with all that new age math like, if your let off increases 2 lbs, then your draw weight goes up 7 lbs. Wow, you see I must be crazy, cause all along I thought that you could change the let off of a bow without changing the draw weight. Like when I changed the 80 percent mods on my cam.5 for the 65 percent ones. I didÑt notice the change in my draw weight that had to be there cause you can't have one without the other. But then again, I might have been "blinded with speed". Heck, I wouldn't know when my draw length changed like 2", you think I'd notice but appearntly, I can't.
> Ever notice that some people take a simple concept and after over thinking it ten fold, makes it over complicated, and can come up with problems and attributes that are mostly just a waste of time and really don't amount to much if given their proper due.



That's where the problem is....you are so hooked into thinking that this thing is pure magic that your aren't even contemplating the actual reason that it works. You can believe whatever you want, but at the end of the day, we all know how it works. Check out the other threads about this on this site and 3DShoots. You're the only one with this opinion.

I wish BowTurbow the best of luck and I think this product does have a good place in the market for helping people get a little more out of a bow. Especially in a situation where you have just outgrown the bow a bit and want a little more or maybe to make your target bow a little more competitive for 3D. Also, in the hunting area to really make that bow shoot flat. 

The only issue I see for BowTurbow is having somebody out their raving about the product without understanding how it works or being open to other ideas about it. The amount of bad press that you, as an individual, has given the company may be irreparable....good job!


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## -chris- (Nov 7, 2005)

Quote: "When I put the 65 percent mods on my cam.5, the draw weight does not increase by 14 lbs".

Thats because you are only changing one variable: the letoff. Bowturbow increases holding weight which in effect has to increase peak weight. Holding weight is a percentage of peak weight and therefore peak weight is influenced more. I've have used a product ben pearson makes to bind my cable slide. I did gain speed but, draw weight increases, draw length increases and let-off decreases. If anyone can explain how this product increases speed without changing anything I would be happy to listen but I'm kinda skeptical since it was clearly stated that this wasn't the same product as fastpassthrough's; which it is.


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

*My humble opinion!*

I would really love to believe in this product... but I don't.

I subscribe to the ... it increases poundage, draw length and holding weight theory. All of which would account for the speed increase.

Now I don't have a problem with this if I am right as long as the company admits it. Remember if you are shooting 60# bow and 300 grains and this turns yours into a 64# bow you are now below 5 grains per pound so below IBO arrow weight rules and definately out of warranty.

If they have found a way to dramatically increase effficiency in a bow which would give a geniune speed increase, with what looks like a simple roller clamped to the cable guard then I will post a public appology to the company here on AT. I will also appologise if all they have done is increased the holding weight (upto 5#) but not the draw length and peak weight!

Buy this product if you wish but don't be suprissed if you gain poundage, draw length and holding weight, however it may be cheaper to just get another longer module and crank the limb bolts down hard.

But I will be delighted to post the appology as if I do I will also be posting a cheque to the company with an order:darkbeer:


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## alligood729 (Mar 25, 2007)

Limey said:


> I would really love to believe in this product... but I don't.
> 
> I subscribe to the ... it increases poundage, draw length and holding weight theory. All of which would account for the speed increase.
> 
> ...


Thank you sir, honest post, to the point!!!:smile::smile:


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## JOE PA (Dec 13, 2003)

*I'm sure it works...*

Just as well as the Brown's gas generators for your car. Increase your mpg to 100, and your bow speed to 350+ fps, all through the wonders of back alley garage mechanics. If you read Len in Maryland's post in the General Archery section, it is scary from a safety standpoint. It could also crack a cable rod very easily, especially after tightening those set screws down tight in a few different places. At least HHO generators probably won't make your car explode.:mg:


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## BowtechAlly563 (Dec 5, 2007)

I dont think it is safe.


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## DeerslayinSOB (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't know if it is going to do what the 3 gentlemen on here are claiming but I am going to find out. I ordered one and I am really pretty excited to see if everything is going to stay the same. I work on many bows everyday so I have to say that I may be a little skeptical but I am willing to give it a try. 

Good luck with your new idea and I hope it does everything that you say it will.:shade:


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## INDBowhunter (Aug 22, 2005)

All this is assuming you put the roller thing at the cables when the bow is relaxed. What if you slid the roller back, closer to where the cable slide is at when the bow is drawn? This might defeat the purpose of the device, but would it be possible to see what it does and moving it back and putting the cables on BACKSIDE of the rollers which would over rotate the cams at the relaxed position. But at full draw the cams should be in the same position as they were with a regular cable slide. Seems like it would make the bow faster without changing much??? Just a theory


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## The Arrow Guru (Feb 9, 2005)

*ummmm*

Lol, I for the record, know exactly why my 65 percent mods work. I was just trying to make a point. Thw addition of holding weight does not automatically mean that the draw weight has to increase with no exception. I also feel that there seems to be people on here who have not even seen one up close who seem to know more about the Bow Turbow than those who have. 
This seems to be typical for AT lately, mostly negative.
I talked to Steve today and we are in the process of recording test results, constructed around the feed back that is on this and the original thread by Alligood. 
One point I would like to make is that let's say that the Bow Turbow is set in what I call its natural position (being where the stock cable gaurd would be @ brace height) and worse case adds 2 lbs of actual draw weight. Does not affect draw lenght, and adds 20 fps. What this tells me is that the Bow Turbow does work, because first of all, with the same arrow being used, 2 lbs of draw weight would not give you 20 fps.
I certianly do not think negative feedback is a bad thing, because it tells you exactly where to go with testing, and marketing a product. However, there is a vast difference in negative feedback and critizism, and bashing and being venomous. As I read this thread, my first reaction is to simply leave it alone. However, there seems to be a few who are policing it waiting to pounce on any positive feedback.(You know who you are, prolly the first one to qoute this post and tell me I am wrong.)
We will post some test results and give everybody a clear picture of what the Bow Turbo does and does not do.
Again let me clarify "we". I do not have any ownership, or have any stake in the company. "We" meaning I have volunteered to help as much as I can I'm the testing, ect.
Okay Scott, your turn.


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## mdewitt71 (Jul 20, 2005)

Many years ago I know of a guy that played with the idea of locking the cable slide down on the rod............
Not a good idea if ya ask me, I sure hope we don't see threads about people getting hurt or bows breaking cause the manufacturers aint gonna cover them.


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## coues (Sep 24, 2003)

*I agree*



Scott.Barrett said:


> I can think of 4 ways to increase speed...
> 
> Get lighter arrows
> Increase draw length
> ...


There is no such thing a something for nothing!


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## whitewater00 (Sep 23, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, how much force are you exerting on your cable guard rod by pinning the cables forward. 

There are obvious issues with safety here as standard cable guard rods are not meant to hold pulling force as standard cable slides, well, SLIDE.

It seems like no matter how safe the attachment may be you could still pull a cable guard rod into your face which would be like getting shot point blank in the eye by a slingshot!!!

Sounds like fun to me.


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## Hoosieroutdoors (Jan 14, 2006)

it is an interesting product to say the least, I doubt it will change draw length any at all because the cams will still rotate their same amount and hit their draw stops at the same point. I wouldn`t mind trying 1 out to see what its all about,,just hope the mounting screws will hold up.


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## Byron (May 14, 2005)

Hoosieroutdoors said:


> it is an interesting product to say the least, I doubt it will change draw length any at all because the cams will still rotate their same amount and hit their draw stops at the same point. I wouldn`t mind trying 1 out to see what its all about,,just hope the mounting screws will hold up.


Actually, pinning the cables forward will rotate the cams toward the string, increasing the rotational travel to full draw. This is the same effect as shortening the cables or lengthening the string.


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## ShootingABN! (Nov 1, 2005)

Who has one for use to try? Dealers?


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