# PSE X-Force Challenge



## tylerolsen12 (Feb 8, 2007)

wow not a pse fan but that thing is awesome


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

nice video, get ready for the apples/oranges gripes....but it's the most popular bows from the other companies.......

.07 decibles difference between the drenalin and xforce, impressive


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## lpv77 (Dec 4, 2005)

Not too fond of that 6 in brace height. I wonder how the other bows would perform with a 6 in brace height. I bet they would blow that thing away.


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## AndyMo (Oct 25, 2005)

Very instructive.

But I still don't see why you are comparing it to the "big three", because it IS a speed bow! It has 6" of brace height...I didn't catch in the video what the competition's was, but I suspect it is over 1" more, which means it has a shortern power stroke, so of course its slower. I would have rather seen a comparison againest a Black Maxx, an Iron Mace and an Envy. 

I hate to be a nay sayer, because I think the bow has tons of potential, but I just don't understand why PSE is tooting this thing as a flagship bow fighter? Its like saying that my Lambouginni (I can't even afford to spell it right) is faster than your Impala, your Charger, and your Fusion. Duh.....


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

Very impressive video. I did have the chance to at least hold and Xforce this weekend at Louisville. Very nice looking bow.


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## goofy2788 (Aug 14, 2005)

AndyMo said:


> Very instructive.
> 
> But I still don't see why you are comparing it to the "big three", because it IS a speed bow! It has 6" of brace height...I didn't catch in the video what the competition's was, but I suspect it is over 1" more, which means it has a shortern power stroke, so of course its slower. I would have rather seen a comparison againest a Black Maxx, an Iron Mace and an Envy.
> 
> I hate to be a nay sayer, because I think the bow has tons of potential, but I just don't understand why PSE is tooting this thing as a flagship bow fighter? Its like saying that my Lambouginni (I can't even afford to spell it right) is faster than your Impala, your Charger, and your Fusion. Duh.....


WHAT???? They took the three top bows in the nation...the flagship bows of Mathews, Hoyt and Bowtech....Duh why wouldn't they compare them to those?? If the they can now build a bow that compares to the Xforce then let them build it and perform the tests...PSE just upped the bar for them.


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## elk stalker (Aug 30, 2004)

What goofy said. The X Force is PSE's 2007 flagship bow. This is their Drenalin, Vectrix, Guardian, and Cardiac for examples. So they want to compare it to the flagship bows of the other companies. Speed bow or not, some of the info provided on the video really has to open your eyes. At least the noise part, that is impressive. That was with the Vectrix and Drenalin having their string suppressors(sp)/stoppers on the bow.


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## 88 PS190 (Sep 26, 2006)

You'd have to settle shooting 270 fps... my rear! only if you didn't shoot the APA speed bow, or the bowtech speed bow, or mathew's speed bow.

Still more of the same, compare bows that are smoother to draw, and yes they store less energy.

All of this is marketing.


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## elk stalker (Aug 30, 2004)

Marketing is getting your product into the eyes of the customer. I think they are doing a good job. Has any other company gone through the time to do examples (videos, etc) of how the bow performs, speed bow or not?


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## bcowette (Jan 11, 2007)

My Xforce is very smooth to draw for me at 70lbs. I am sorry you're such a sally. You could shoot a 50lb xforce though and get more speed than any of the other bows.



88 PS190 said:


> You'd have to settle shooting 270 fps... my rear! only if you didn't shoot the APA speed bow, or the bowtech speed bow, or mathew's speed bow.
> 
> Still more of the same, compare bows that are smoother to draw, and yes they store less energy.
> 
> All of this is marketing.


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## rkjtg (Dec 27, 2006)

Impressive performance but you have to admit it is an ugly bow.:wink: 

Not too sure about the short brace height.


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## 88 PS190 (Sep 26, 2006)

lol, callin me a sally eh.

I have no problems drawing bows, I'm not saying its a gritty jerky draw but its a heavier draw, Find someone who can just draw 70 on the Drenalin or other bows in the 315ish range and give them ANY bow that's up by 340+ and they cannot draw the other bow.

Its not a leap in efficiency % but it is a nice bow. Its the people who take the time to think about these things that get bugged by it.


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## Steeler Fan (Aug 10, 2006)

goofy2788 said:


> WHAT???? They took the three top bows in the nation...the flagship bows of Mathews, Hoyt and Bowtech....Duh why wouldn't they compare them to those?? If the they can now build a bow that compares to the Xforce then let them build it and perform the tests...PSE just upped the bar for them.



How? Mathews had the Black Max Years ago...been there done that. Bowtech had the Black Night years ago....Been there done that. Hoyts Vulcan would be considered their "speed" bow but thats about the closest comparison...until you draw each of them side by side, a blind man could tell you which one would be faster. PSE just made a super fast bow...we get it already, these test prove little if anything that we don't already know. It will sell, no doubt about it, but it won't outsell the Drenalin, Vectrix or Trib/Ally etc. It's a cool bow, I like it, but it's not an ideal treestand bow thats for sure, no thanks. Build it with a 7- 7.25 brace height with an IBO in the 330's and more hunters will look at that....and other manufacturers are there already.


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## elkaddict (Feb 9, 2005)

Hey all you technowizzards, what actual difference does an additional 11/4" brace height mean velocity wise? 

Also, I'd like to know how many bows they went through to find the competitors bows used in the test. My 29" Guardian's BC was 310. Given my testing I'm confident with the additional inch of draw length and the removal of the string silencers it would have shot 12-15fps faster--still slower than the X-force, but a more realistic margin. For an apples to apples test, I'd love to see an 07 allegiance with a 6" brace height. My $ is on the results being very different from that which is reported!

Gotta hand to PSE for the promo--good piece of marketing. I'm glad to see them jumping back into the high end game. Only good will come from it as it will force all the manufacturers to push the R&D.


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## AndyMo (Oct 25, 2005)

goofy2788 said:


> WHAT???? They took the three top bows in the nation...the flagship bows of Mathews, Hoyt and Bowtech....Duh why wouldn't they compare them to those?? If the they can now build a bow that compares to the Xforce then let them build it and perform the tests...PSE just upped the bar for them.


Mathews built it a couple of years ago. Its called the Black Maxx. HCA and Elite build them now too. 

I got no beef with any bow company, or any bow shooter. But I do not appreciate a company, or anyone else, pi$$ing on my back and telling me its raining. And thats what I see when I watch this video. Yes, it is good marketing. But like ANYTHING to do with an advertisement put out by a company promoting their OWN products, I take it with a healthy dose of salt.

Everybody likes their own brand.


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## NMP (Aug 6, 2003)

Id bet that all the people that own, or have even shot, APA, Elite and High Country bows combined would not come close to the number of people that own Mathews, Bowtech or Hoyt bows by themselves. That is why they are comparing these bows. They are targeting these owners because their numbers are great and these bows have the majority of the publics attention.


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

AndyMo said:


> Very instructive.
> 
> But I still don't see why you are comparing it to the "big three", because it IS a speed bow! It has 6" of brace height...I didn't catch in the video what the competition's was, but I suspect it is over 1" more, which means it has a shortern power stroke, so of course its slower. I would have rather seen a comparison againest a Black Maxx, an Iron Mace and an Envy.
> 
> I hate to be a nay sayer, because I think the bow has tons of potential, but I just don't understand why PSE is tooting this thing as a flagship bow fighter? Its like saying that my Lambouginni (I can't even afford to spell it right) is faster than your Impala, your Charger, and your Fusion. Duh.....


Maybe it's because it's more than a speed bow, it's the perfect HUNTING bow! So why not compare it to the top hunting bows?


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## AndyMo (Oct 25, 2005)

NMP said:


> Id bet that all the people that own, or have even shot, APA, Elite and High Country bows combined would not come close to the number of people that own Mathews, Bowtech or Hoyt bows by themselves. That is why they are comparing these bows. They are targeting these owners because their numbers are great and these bows have the majority of the publics attention.



Of course they are, we know why they are doing it, its MARKETING! 

John Force could show up at your local street drag in his funny car and show you the same results. 

Anyway, y'all have fun.


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## Myk (Nov 19, 2003)

LOL, no fair removing silencers from Bowtech :wink: 

A 350gr hunting arrow???  
Does the bow not respond well to arrow weight?

They should've had Nathan Brookes shooting the other bows.  

I wouldn't mind trying one. Speed is fun.


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## AndyMo (Oct 25, 2005)

Oryx said:


> Maybe it's because it's more than a speed bow, it's the perfect HUNTING bow! So why not compare it to the top hunting bows?


Send me one and I'll let you know.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Oryx said:


> Maybe it's because it's more than a speed bow, it's the perfect HUNTING bow! So why not compare it to the top hunting bows?


Far from it. The perfect hunting bow runs at 50dB, shoots 400 fps, and never misses. 

What makes the X-force any better than a black max besides the label?


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## Steeler Fan (Aug 10, 2006)

Oryx said:


> Maybe it's because it's more than a speed bow, it's the perfect HUNTING bow! So why not compare it to the top hunting bows?



Maybe for someone that doesn't hunt from a treestand. Try shooting a bow with that brace height in Michigan on a cold Nov day while twisted up in a treestand with less than perfect form. Perfect my *****, trust me. Perfect if your trying to sell it, course!


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## Andreas (Jan 7, 2004)

Apple to oranges or what ever some think, If the X-Force was compared to old "speed bows" the argue would be that it was tested against old bows...

Which bows will the buyer find at the shops? It won't be Black Maxx, quite unlikely the Envy (limited edition). Of course this is marketing, however I think PSE "did it" this time and they have all the rights to bragg and be proud


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## bcowette (Jan 11, 2007)

I would bet a lot of money that those shorter limbs are much more efficent than most other designs. If you really stop and look at it there new lim design is basically the same as the guardian minus the pivot arm. 


88 PS190 said:


> lol, callin me a sally eh.
> 
> I have no problems drawing bows, I'm not saying its a gritty jerky draw but its a heavier draw, Find someone who can just draw 70 on the Drenalin or other bows in the 315ish range and give them ANY bow that's up by 340+ and they cannot draw the other bow.
> 
> *Its not a leap in efficiency % but it is a nice bow*. Its the people who take the time to think about these things that get bugged by it.


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## montanacur (Sep 12, 2005)

This is a fantastic video. I don't understand the naysayers who believe that it's testing apples vs. oranges. They are testing their best high-end bow against this year's best high-end bows from the big three manufacturers. All of these bows are new to this year. PSE no doubt foresees their sales with the X-force being their highest selling bow, and compared that to the bows that will be the highest selling bows for their competition.


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## elk stalker (Aug 30, 2004)

Bobmuley said:


> Far from it. The perfect hunting bow runs at 50dB, shoots 400 fps, and never misses.
> 
> What makes the X-force any better than a black max besides the label?


I respect who you are in AT land so I will answer your question to the best I can. I have owned a Black Max before, so I know first hand how it shoots. Very fast bow. However it had a very aggresive cam. The draw curve on the X Force is not as hard to draw when compared to the Black Max. Perhaps an engineer will be able to pull up the old draw force curves and compare the 2.

The black max was a very radical bow. It's because of bows like the black max that people grimace at the sound of a 6"ish brace height. The black max on the shot would jump out of your hand if you weren't wearing some kind of wrist sling. What was your reward for making sure you didn't drop the bow, a giant red mark on your wrist. Granted, you could probably eliminate that now a days with an STS or something like that. 

The way the X Force limbs have been made eliminate the extreme travel of the string going forward on yesterday's "speed bow". I don't call the X Force a speed bow. I call it a hunting bow. I don't think anyone will argue the quietness of the X Force as proven by the video. So i feel you will agree that the X Force is quiter than the "speed bows" of yesterday. This is why I think the X Force is better than the Black Max.


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

how many feet persecond is a full inch or more a brace height worth?

this needs to be factored in
if the other bows in the test had a 6 inch brace height they would be a lot faster as well.

so i am not that sold on the speed thing yet


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

elk stalker said:


> I respect who you are in AT land so I will answer your question to the best I can. I have owned a Black Max before, so I know first hand how it shoots. Very fast bow. However it had a very aggresive cam. The draw curve on the X Force is not as hard to draw when compared to the Black Max. Perhaps an engineer will be able to pull up the old draw force curves and compare the 2.
> 
> The black max was a very radical bow. It's because of bows like the black max that people grimace at the sound of a 6"ish brace height. The black max on the shot would jump out of your hand if you weren't wearing some kind of wrist sling. What was your reward for making sure you didn't drop the bow, a giant red mark on your wrist. Granted, you could probably eliminate that now a days with an STS or something like that.
> 
> The way the X Force limbs have been made eliminate the extreme travel of the string going forward on yesterday's "speed bow". I don't call the X Force a speed bow. I call it a hunting bow. I don't think anyone will argue the quietness of the X Force as proven by the video. So i feel you will agree that the X Force is quiter than the "speed bows" of yesterday. This is why I think the X Force is better than the Black Max.


I shot one a few times. Shot fine, a little tougher for me to pull back than my bows but nothing significant. I don't think it's "perfect". It'll do its intended job...just as the blackmax, smoke, or any of the other dragsters. If I was to shoot a a PSE (again) I'd still pick the nicer shootin' Mojo 3D. That would be my preference (mostly for the BH and smoother draw options), even though its not perfect either.

And, my biggest grief is the fact that Oryx had to post it on every single X-force thread....anyone know his name your from NM, you should know.:wink:


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

I still dont know about the short brace height

for hunting that seems a bit low especially where I hunt in cold weather and have more bulky clothing on


does anyone have any more info on the cams?

is there a draw stop?
what about nock travel, is the bow consistenet when if pulled into the wall at varying strengths?

the bow does look interesting though

dont think I would be able to use my current bow press though (toad 400's-)


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## Archery-Addiction (Nov 1, 2005)

It seems to be a very nice bow, but if you take and make the drenalin, guardian and vectrix with a 6" brace height, you have a much faster bow. To the average bowhunter, they are going to see speed and say "cool"! To someone that knows about brace heights, they are going to blow it off. Now, this thing could be a real shooter and I will have to try one. Until then, I am still not all that impressed.


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

AndyMo said:


> Of course they are, we know why they are doing it, its MARKETING!
> 
> John Force could show up at your local street drag in his funny car and show you the same results.
> 
> Anyway, y'all have fun.


come on the differance between a street car and John force funny car..1" BH
yeah right...so to you 1" BH is like two differant worlds..your way off bro..
so the gaurdain with its center limb pivit should be compaird to nothing
because no one else has one..why don`t you guys make a fruit cake with
you apples and oranges.....no test will be good enough for you fan boys..
I think PSE said alot of good things about the other bows and their speed.
they said guradian respectable speed...they have respect for it..you should
too...

but like some one else said, I would like to see MR.BROOKS shoot all bows
in the shooting test....lol

bigbucks170


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Very good promotional piece.


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## Lawrence Archer (Feb 5, 2007)

All I have to say is that they're all awesome bows. :darkbeer:


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

AndyMo said:


> Very instructive.
> 
> I hate to be a nay sayer, because I think the bow has tons of potential, but I just don't understand why PSE is tooting this thing as a flagship bow fighter? Its like saying that my Lambouginni (I can't even afford to spell it right) is faster than your Impala, your Charger, and your Fusion. Duh.....


Because they are saying it is the Corvette of bows.
Cheaper that the most expensive (Elite), as fast as the other speedsters (Black Knights) while as comfortable and accurate as the other bows tops lines (see the comparison).

The difference they are touting is that it is quite, accurate, and if you can get out of the 'it must not be good because...." mindset and actually shoot it then you will find out.........

It is a HUNTERS bow that is Fast 
instead of a Speed bow you can hunt with.
I plan to shoot one in May.

PS... my Diablo must be the best bow in the world. 8.25" BH is almost 1" over all the competition and still IBO's at 310fps. :darkbeer: 
Too bad the other bow manufacturers had to drop down to 7" BHs to give them a speed advantage...


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## justabowdude (Nov 9, 2005)

lpv77 said:


> Not too fond of that 6 in brace height. I wonder how the other bows would perform with a 6 in brace height. I bet they would blow that thing away.


I will take that bet !!! I have shot this bow and it is FAR less critical than any 7" B/H bow on the market today !!!:darkbeer:


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

Lawrence Archer said:


> All I have to say is that they're all awesome bows. :darkbeer:


I totally agree with you..I think the test shows that..just pick the one thats 
right for you...don`t forget to shoot them all....

bigbucks170


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## Beeteam2557 (Feb 24, 2007)

The most impressive part to me was Nathan's 120 shots!!!


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## PatriotDually (Oct 14, 2005)

Man you guys will bash anything. I for one am happy to see PSE back in the "Ring" and can you really compare the limb pocket angle combined with the parallel limb design with yesterdays black max when your talking brace height? We should all be happy that another bow company is stepping up to give us more choices and to push the other bow companies to push there standards. sheeeesshhhhh....... I will go shoot the bow and i will shoot it with a jacket as if i was hunting in the cold and sit in a chair sideways and compare it to a gaurdian,drenalin,vectrix. If it sucks so be it. But just what IF it shoots as good??? Now wouldn't that be cool?


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## t-maximus (Apr 14, 2005)

*Brace height*

PSE actually photographed the bows with a high speed camera when they were shooting them. If you guys are into brace heights and who's telling the truth. Their results showed the drenalin holding onto the arrow long enough to give it a 6 inch brace height or less. The x force did not travel past it's advertised brace height. So it is likely you think your bow has advertised as an 7" plus brace height but your probably not getting it in reality. Not sure why so many people are so quick to dig on other brands. I would never buy a Mathews, Hoyt or Bowtech just because of the most of the people that shoot them. They're no better than any other brand. Just cost more.


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## t-maximus (Apr 14, 2005)

*X bows*

By the way, I've shot all the X bows. The X force is as easy to shoot as any of them. For the speed it has it is a very smooth, quiet shootable bow.


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## Roland (Oct 16, 2002)

I think the 6" brace height will have less effect on shorter draw lengths (<28"). A few years ago lots of bows were 6.25" to 6.75" and we all figured out how to shoot them okay. PSE used to be a major player when considering a new bow, looks like they're trying to get back in the game and the Xforce is definitely a step in the right direction.


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## TXarcher20 (Jan 14, 2007)

t-maximus said:


> PSE actually photographed the bows with a high speed camera when they were shooting them. If you guys are into brace heights and who's telling the truth. Their results showed the drenalin holding onto the arrow long enough to give it a 6 inch brace height or less. The x force did not travel past it's advertised brace height. So it is likely you think your bow has advertised as an 7" plus brace height but your probably not getting it in reality. Not sure why so many people are so quick to dig on other brands. I would never buy a Mathews, Hoyt or Bowtech just because of the most of the people that shoot them. They're no better than any other brand. Just cost more.


Your the reason we dont buy pse's:wink:

And why did they take off the string suppressors for the vibe test?hmmm


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## MACHXKING (Jul 27, 2006)

because the X-Force doesn't need or come with them to be that silent and the others do. we sell all these bows but hoyt and the customer decides what shoots the best for themselves. we let the customer shoot all bows on our 20yd range so the person with the purse can make up their mind without all the biased opinions here from people who have never shot this bow and made up their minds ahead of time.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

TXarcher20 said:


> And why did they take off the string suppressors for the vibe test?hmmm


They left them off all the bows as an equalizer since each brand use different chubs.
Leaving them off should have helped 2 of the other brands.
Mathews has the Idler Suppressor, Hoyt has the CSS.


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## Bullish9 (Aug 27, 2002)

Hmm what about hand shock/recoil the PSE looked like it tried to jump off the hooter shooter, the other seemed much more dead. Then of course what about the draw cycle, It hard to believe the PSE is anything close to as smooth as the Hoyt or Mathews (probably why it wasn’t mentioned). Comparing apples to oranges is a bad comparison, especially when you only highlight the +s and not the -s.

I'm not a PSE anti, but lopsided comparisons are BS.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Bullish9 said:


> Hmm what about hand shock/recoil...
> Then of course what about the draw cycle


Shock and Draw Cycle are personal preference items and one person's tolerance for either can vary. 
They tested empirical items.


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## TXarcher20 (Jan 14, 2007)

Bullish9 said:


> Hmm what about hand shock/recoil the PSE looked like it tried to jump off the hooter shooter, the other seemed much more dead. Then of course what about the draw cycle, It hard to believe the PSE is anything close to as smooth as the Hoyt or Mathews (probably why it wasn’t mentioned). Comparing apples to oranges is a bad comparison, especially when you only highlight the +s and not the -s.
> 
> I'm not a PSE anti, but lopsided comparisons are BS.


Yes sir


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

francis said:


> I still dont know about the short brace height
> 
> for hunting that seems a bit low especially where I hunt in cold weather and have more bulky clothing on
> 
> ...


Francis... Let me get one thing straight to most who seem to be commenting on the brace height on this bow... It's moot... Insignificant at best... After shooting this thing bulky clothing or not you have no indication(s) that it even has a 6 inch brace height!! It doesn't do squat on the shot but remains neutral with no jump and dead in the hand... For the few who keep wanting to compare this thing to a blackmax or other by-gone speed bows of the past.. Ya'll obviously aint shot one of these yet... So the real question is.. what the heck r guys afraid of??? please explain???  I have one and have been shooting it a ton as of late and it blows me away every time I get to shooting.... As far as the cams... Yes they use a draw stop as well as an interchangable draw module and each is optimized for perfect nock travel at all lengths.. There are also tuning marks on the cams...They no doubt are agressive, stack hard and hold on a solid wall... and no indication of cam lean... In my mind it's a perfect blend of high performance and smoothness... The limb pocket is super solid and seems to be really stable and all the bows i've seen so far direct from the fatory have been built incredibely well built... I would say PSE has stepped up there game in the quality control department... 

One last comment... For the few who have suggested that there bows would perform on par with the X-force if brace heights were the same... It's really easy to test your theory(s)... Match up power strokes.. Ie.. take your 7" bh bow and shoot it one inch longer than an x-force... That would equate to appx. equal power strokes... food for thought...

Anybody have any questions regarding the bow ask away.. Also if anybody in southern Michigan hasn't had the chance to shoot one and wants to let me know... I'll be happy to help out... Bring all yer cold weather hunting gear and bulk up as much as you can... we'll see if we can get the 6" brace height to bite you...:wink: :wink: :tongue: :darkbeer: 

Cheers
Tim


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## bigbucks170 (Feb 2, 2006)

I think the mathews is smoother but the Hoyt? your crazy..how is it lopsided?
beacuse they didn`t say mathews was smoother? or the BH? why don`t you
prove them wrong with you perfect fair test.if you can do better lets see it!
its easy for you to talk BS...now back it up..I didn`t think so..alot of hot air.

I would like to shoot a fair tournament..so to be fair to me the person 
shooting would have to be born on the same day as me.weight the same
5`9" tall.have the same years experance as me .same everthing or it is
a BS tournament right! apple to apples

bigbucks170


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## francis (Jan 18, 2003)

Tim, 

Thanks for the response 

the bow looks good 

really am thinking about it

one question for ya 
do the stops on the cam contact the limb or the cable? Is the draw stop adjustable to fine tune your exact draw length/letoff?

also, how fine of ajustment can be made right on the cam as far as draw length 

with or without the draw stop?


i read on pse site about one of their other cams where you could get to within a 1/4 inch by moving the string to a certain post on the cam, then could get even finer by adjusting the position of the draw stop, just wondering if this new cam is the same way?


thanks 

francis


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

AndyMo said:


> Send me one and I'll let you know.


What's stopping you from walking into a shop and trying one? Nothing right! Yet you keep replying to the thread, hmmm wounder why?


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

Bobmuley said:


> Far from it. The perfect hunting bow runs at 50dB, shoots 400 fps, and never misses.
> 
> What makes the X-force any better than a black max besides the label?


Well you clearly don't understand decibles and if you can make it 50 dB be my guest, good luck breaking that one! You send me the link on were I can see footage of the black max test then it might be worth my time? But I won't hold my breath! :cocktail:


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

francis said:


> Tim,
> 
> Thanks for the response
> 
> ...



No the draw stop is not adjustable other than (2) locations for either 60 or 70% let-off and the stop hits the cable...not limb... However ther are some additonal length adjustments in the cam... I think 3/8 inch.. (i'll have to go check)... Anyway once you get a bow within a half inch there are other things you can do in the cable/string system to achive minute adjustments...

Cheers
Tim


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## CTA (Apr 13, 2006)

They're all good bows, and I shot most of them this year looking for a new hunting bow. I have a 70# XForce in my hands now, though. It's a great hunting bow. I'm glad it's here, both because I like owning it, and because I think it will help push the envelope in hunting bow technology. 

I find it more forgiving than some of the current crop of speed bows, although I haven't shot them all. It's a really good hunting package.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

bcowette said:


> I would bet a lot of money that those shorter limbs are much more efficent than most other designs. If you really stop and look at it there new lim design is basically the same as the guardian minus the pivot arm.


Same as the Guardian?? Pse had the Mach-x last year, when did the Guardian come out??? Oh, this year!!!


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Bowtech-Addiction said:


> It seems to be a very nice bow, but if you take and make the drenalin, guardian and vectrix with a 6" brace height, you have a much faster bow. To the average bowhunter, they are going to see speed and say "cool"! To someone that knows about brace heights, they are going to blow it off. Now, this thing could be a real shooter and I will have to try one. Until then, I am still not all that impressed.


Why is everyone so hung up on the brace height thing? I have shot nothing but 8+ brace height bows while everyone else is shooting 7". I have shot the X-force and it feels very little if any difference than shooting my 8" brace bows. Try one before you post judgement, that's all!!!


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

Shaman said:


> Because they are saying it is the Corvette of bows.
> Cheaper that the most expensive (Elite), as fast as the other speedsters (Black Knights) while as comfortable and accurate as the other bows tops lines (see the comparison).
> 
> The difference they are touting is that it is quite, accurate, and if you can get out of the 'it must not be good because...." mindset and actually shoot it then you will find out.........
> ...


Exactly, very well said Shaman!!!


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

When a private company, or person does a comparison on all of the 2007 bows, then I will watch and listen. But there is not one company that I trust to make a 100% truthful comparison of the video and bows; who would want to do that, show that other bows are better...


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## Zen Archery (Jul 27, 2004)

proof is in the pudding ladies and gentlemen...
proor is in the pudding...


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Oryx said:


> Well you clearly don't understand decibles and if you can make it 50 dB be my guest, good luck breaking that one! You send me the link on were I can see footage of the black max test then it might be worth my time? But I won't hold my breath! :cocktail:


Actually I do understand sound waves as its part of my job. My sound Rion NL-32 set on the A-scale registers 45-50 dB in the woods on a calm day. That's what I want out of the "perfect" hunting bow. 

No bows are whisper quiet either.

Black max test, don't know where to find it. I shot one, it is rougher than the Xf. I also know of several deer and elk that fell to them and some tournaments that were won with them. So I guess to say that any one bow is better than the other really doesn't matter. They all do the job. If you feel you need to have data showing yours is superior than anyone elses you don't have any excuse for ever missing a target or animal. 

And remember, Nathan was able to overcome a Hoyt handicap to shoot 120 Xs also.:wink:

If you can't come up with a good reason why the Xforce is any better at hitting dots or killing animals than a Blackmax, Supertech or any other hunting bow just say so.


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> Actually I do understand sound waves as its part of my job. My sound Rion NL-32 set on the A-scale registers 45-50 dB in the woods on a calm day. That's what I want out of the "perfect" hunting bow.
> 
> No bows are whisper quiet either.
> 
> ...


Muley... I'll give you a few.. It's faster... produces more KE.... it's quieter... Doesn't rattle your fillings loose on the shot and doesn't jump.... Hence the vid... Pretty simple really... In terms of hitting dots I can vouch for the Max as I have shot one in the past and it was very accurate and I have been witness to plenty of ST's doing the same... However, the X-Force shoots more like the "feel good" bows that are so popular today... PSE has stepped up and produced a bow that blends the best of both worlds regarding extreme speed and subtle shot characteristics... It is the perfect hunting bow...:darkbeer: :darkbeer: You just gotta ask yourself... "Self" "if I could shoot a bow that averages 20-30 fps faster than most and shoots just as quite and vibe free as most then why don't I???"..:wink: :wink: 

Cheers
Tim


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## MACHXKING (Jul 27, 2006)

*missing the boat*

the key to the X-Force has two points as I see it. (1) you can now hunt with 50-60lbs and still have 280-310fps from my 29"dl, why not shoot 50# for 
280fps the largest animals are dear for me. holding so little weight at full draw will make you a better shot as not to rush the shot. (2) if your dl is shorter than 28" you can now obtain the speeds of people with a longer dl and no longer be handicaped with a shorter dl. how many other bows will give 350gr arrow 26"dl 60# 280fps or 300+ fps at 70#. this bow has a market that has been left behind by many bow makers. if you haven't shot it you really don't know what you are saying and shouldn't. every bow company has some great bows out on the market. many people are blinded by brand name not based on the bows merit. as the PSE test goes it was overseen by a major bowhunting publication, that shows the negative people heard and saw what they wanted as this was explained before the test.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

tsilvers said:


> Muley... I'll give you a few.. It's faster... produces more KE.... it's quieter... Doesn't rattle your fillings loose on the shot and doesn't jump.... Hence the vid... Pretty simple really... In terms of hitting dots I can vouch for the Max as I have shot one in the past and it was very accurate and I have been witness to plenty of ST's doing the same... However, the X-Force shoots more like the "feel good" bows that are so popular today... PSE has stepped up and produced a bow that blends the best of both worlds regarding extreme speed and subtle shot characteristics... It is the perfect hunting bow...:darkbeer: :darkbeer: You just gotta ask yourself... "Self" "if I could shoot a bow that averages 20-30 fps faster than most and shoots just as quite and vibe free as most then why don't I???"..:wink: :wink:
> 
> Cheers
> Tim


If its your "perfect" hunting bow there will NEVER be a reason to upgrade then....EVER. :wink: Can I hold you to that?:zip: 

The speed is no biggie to me (or alot of others I feel) as the range of the bow is still limited do to our limitations as archers. The speed will not increase that at all...particularly in this day of sittin' in treestand with under 30 yard shots and the wide use of rangefinders. The bow still doesn't do anything to expand our capabilities. So, in my opinion, its just another bow...same as mine, and the one before it. 

As far as producing more KE, I could care less, MO is what drives penetration of projectiles. It will produce more than the bows it was tested against. Better for cape buffalo hunters.

I certainly didn't mind shooting the X-force and could probably do everything with it that I can do with half a dozen others, but not likely any better.  It won't kill any more bucks or bulls for me. Won't win me any more tournaments, or make me better looking. To me its the same as saying Goat Tuff glue has made me a better archer.:wink:

I'm still trying to figure out if Oryx is Dano, or Video?


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## tsilvers (Nov 16, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> If its your "perfect" hunting bow there will NEVER be a reason to upgrade then....EVER. :wink: Can I hold you to that?:zip:
> 
> The speed is no biggie to me (or alot of others I feel) as the range of the bow is still limited do to our limitations as archers. The speed will not increase that at all...particularly in this day of sittin' in treestand with under 30 yard shots and the wide use of rangefinders. The bow still doesn't do anything to expand our capabilities. So, in my opinion, its just another bow...same as mine, and the one before it.
> 
> ...



Your right... I should have rephrased that... "Its the best hunting bow for now"...:wink: 

As for speed... I was with you until I started shooting this thing... Most of my hunting rigs have shot in the neighborhood of 270-280 and I have killed my share of animals quite efficiently with them... However, Had I had the X-force in my hand this past season and I will contest that a very respectable P&Y 10 point would be hanging on my wall... To make a long story short... A slight inaccurate judgement on yardage on my part caused me to shoot under him @ 45 yds.. I had judged him for 40 and had no time for ranging... The arrow dropped just enough to literally take hair off of his lower chest and buried in the bean field behind him.. Now you and I both know P&Y animals aren't easy to come by and even harder to get second chance on.. I was quite sick about and wondered what I could have done differently.. I never did get a second chance and only saw 2 more times after that.. However, as of late (since aquiring my X-Force) and doing some extensive long range shooting i've come to the conclusion that speed and more importantly flat out accurate speed would have served me well in this situation.. You simply can't argue that flatter shooting arrow trajectory(s) will not make up for poor judgement on one's part (as described above)..:embara: :embara: It certaintly would have in my case.. It only took shooting this bow along side a few others I have set up to realize this (the trajectory difference is scary)... It's been a real eye opener for me since I've never been really interested in the speed game before... As for sticking inside 30 yds... Totally up to each individual shooter and there abilties no doubt.. But again I belive the speed offers an advantage even at the shorter ranges... Particulalry to those of us who primarily hunt whitetails.. The faster the arrow gets there the better off you probably are... I've been in several situations in where a deer who has been alerted happened to duck, bob, weave or all the above and have had arrows hit slightly off mark.. And on another note... Not sure i'm going to have 20-30 yd pins on this bow.. The arrow drop is very slight and for hunting situations I see no need for it... Probably will dial in for 30 and aim 2 inches low for anything under... As for expanding one's capabilties well that will be up to each shooter to figure out... But what I do know so far is it will expand my confidence in harvesting deer at longer ranges... I've always chose to limit my shots on deer to under 45 yds based on a healthy respect for what they can do in the mere milli-seconds it takes an arrow to travel that distance... It has nothing to do with my ability as I seem to have shot all my hunting bows of the past quite accurately out to 60+ yds... I like most here have learned these lessons the hard way and if I can find or have found in this case a reason or a beneficial resource (X-Force  ) to aid in upping my game I'm all for it... It's simply mind boggeling to jump 40+ fps (in my case) and note the differences... I think I stated it in another post but the bow blows me away every time I shoot it and is plain fun to shoot.. Now i'm about as big a PSE die-hard there is around here and my posts may be percieved as biased to some   but coming straight from the a pure bow hunters perspective I truely believe that there hasn't been another hunting bow that performs and shoots like this one... As mentioned somewhere above, in my mind it is a true blend of all of the important characteristics desired ina hunting bow.... Accurate quite fast and dead in no particular order....:darkbeer: :darkbeer: 

Cheers
Tim


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

i am going to venture a guess here and say for all those that want 7"+ on BH it will be out next year using the same technology as the x force and will still be an extremely fast bow. time will tell who knows, maybe still outperform most other companies?


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## Andreas (Jan 7, 2004)

trimantrekokc said:


> i am going to venture a guess here and say for all those that want 7"+ on BH it will be out next year using the same technology as the x force and will still be an extremely fast bow. time will tell who knows, maybe still outperform most other companies?


As already mentioned you only have to look at the x-force with 29" draw to have the same power-stroke as a 30" draw with 7" brace. Basically this means an X-force with 7" Brace would givesomewhere around 340 fps IBO.

I think the most remarkable with this bow is that it is rated at 350 and really keep up with the numbers. Not many bows do that. If you look closely the bows in the test do have D-loop so you can probably add a fps or two


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

Andreas said:


> As already mentioned you only have to look at the x-force with 29" draw to have the same power-stroke as a 30" draw with 7" brace. Basically this means an X-force with 7" Brace would givesomewhere around 340 fps IBO.
> 
> I think the most remarkable with this bow is that it is rated at 350 and really keep up with the numbers. Not many bows do that. If you look closely the bows in the test do have D-loop so you can probably add a fps or two


correct, i was just saying i would look for it to hit the stores next year using the same technology but longer BH.....


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## Orions_Bow (Dec 14, 2002)

Great video, they did it right. I see no issue taking their flagship bow & compairing it to the other companies flagship. The sound test was very interesting. PSE is doing soem good marketing with the Internet & generating a lot of interest in theri new bow. Way to go! 

The funny thing is no one would be saying much of anything if this was Bowtech doing the video. Simply way to much bow bashing happens on this site.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

tsilvers said:


> As mentioned somewhere above, in my mind it is a true blend of all of the important characteristics desired ina hunting bow.... Accurate quite fast and dead in no particular order....:darkbeer: :darkbeer:
> 
> Cheers
> Tim


Bummer about the buck, but that's what makes shooting another even more rewarding....sort of.:wink: You should come and hunt with me...I've got bigger targets. 

I've owned quite a few PSEs, my favorite flavors were the Fireflight, Mach 7, 9, 9.5, 11, and really like the Mojo in the 3D version. These are the kinds of bows I like. You can get a general feel for the style of bows I like. I've also owned some Hoyts, Martins, Mathews, Oregons, Jennings, High Countrys, and a couple of oddballs...but geometricly and ergonomically there not alot of difference from one brand to the others in what I like.


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## coolpapabill (Jun 6, 2005)

Enough with the "comparing apples to oranges" crap.
They/we are comparing compound bows to compound
bows not fruit.Go shoot every bow you can,and buy
the one you like,and if you're fortunate enough own
a couple.


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## new guy (Apr 1, 2005)

god forbid someone makes a real nice bow and compares it to the fanboys bows...are some of you really that blind and insecure to not see what they are testing...they are saying that you can make a bow that is fast and can still be as quiet as the other bows and still be very accurate...i dont think they slammed any bow company in this test.why not compare it to some of the best bows out there...if they compared it to a older or less quality bow,then the fanboys would slam it because they did an unfair test...no matter what they do,the fanboys will find a way to slam it... i have shot this bow and i will say that it is a very smooth bow and no more hand shock than the others...the brace height on this bow doesnt seem to matter...it never hit my arm...i liked the bow so much that i ordered one and should have it any day now.
maybe the fanboys should shoot this bow with an open mind (like i did) and then speak about it...until then,quit bashing a bow you have never shot.


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## vonottoexperien (Nov 4, 2005)

Infomercial nothing more, just like bow-flex, V-tec outboards, and a host of others.


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## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

new guy said:


> god forbid someone makes a real nice bow and compares it to the fanboys bows...are some of you really that blind and insecure to not see what they are testing...they are saying that you can make a bow that is fast and can still be as quiet as the other bows and still be very accurate...i dont think they slammed any bow company in this test.why not compare it to some of the best bows out there...if they compared it to a older or less quality bow,then the fanboys would slam it because they did an unfair test...no matter what they do,the fanboys will find a way to slam it... i have shot this bow and i will say that it is a very smooth bow and no more hand shock than the others...the brace height on this bow doesnt seem to matter...it never hit my arm...i liked the bow so much that i ordered one and should have it any day now.
> maybe the fanboys should shoot this bow with an open mind (like i did) and then speak about it...until then,quit bashing a bow you have never shot.


I agree I love mine smoothest fastest thing ive ever put an arrow across.


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## Bonehead1 (Oct 20, 2005)

vonottoexperien said:


> Infomercial nothing more, just like bow-flex, V-tec outboards, and a host of others.


:set1_rolf2: :set1_rolf2: :set1_rolf2: yea, whatever!!!!


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## ndbowhunter (Oct 27, 2004)

Forget about brace height issues. This bow makes up a whole new set of rules. I tested it personally in our shop and it's unbelievable. 

445 grain arrow, 29" 285 @ 60#

370 grain arrow, 29" 310 @ 60#

300 grain arrow, 29" 340 @ 60#

No hand shock, no string slap, extremely smooth draw. I wouldn't believe it myself until I tried it. I still can hardly believe it. I don't buy into any hype, but this one lives up to it.


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## machofelix (Apr 6, 2007)

*Speed Bow*

Every one keeps labeling the X Force a "speed bow". This seems to imply it was only built for speed???? This bow is quiet , accurate and has very low hand shock as well, it just happens to be fast too. Almost everyone who purchases this bow will use it as their primary hunting bow. Don't kid yourself haters, the X Force is a HUNTING BOW. Which is the only reason I shoot. Cfox out !!!!


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## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

*ttt*

I look to see a few new PSE's with this cam and limb configuration longer axle target bow with longer brace heights to satisfy everyone.Its an amazing bow Guardian quiet and just happens to smoke an arrow.If you would have told me 6months ago I would be buying a PSE I would have cracked a rib laughing at you so hard.:icon_1_lol:


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## ronyurong (Oct 19, 2002)

*PSE X Force Video*

Very Cool video want to go out and buy the X force. That is what PR is all about. Jump on the bandwagon and go with the crowd


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## crarbo1 (Mar 22, 2003)

*Just shot one today!*

I posted this in the other thread about this bow. I hate to do this but I felt it was necessary to post it here too.

I was fortunate today to shoot one of these bows. I too was concerned with the brace height of this bow. To give you some background in what I'm about to say I will mention that I have never had a bow, not slap my arm if I shot using back tension. It is not a matter of draw length either for me becuase I have went from 27" draw to 29" draw and all did the same thing. The only way I could prevent this is with a STS. Oh, and these bows ranged from 7" to 8.25" brace heights, all hitting my arm. So, today I go in to shoot this bow, drove almost 2 hours to do so, fully expecting it to slap my arm but I wanted to see for my self. This bow was set to 29" draw at 62#'s and shooting with backtension it did not slap my arm. The crazy thing is, that draw was 1" longer than what I normally shoot. And I do shot PSE/AR's now. I was impressed with this and think that it would not be a factor in the woods, with or without an STS or similar device. FYI, I shot that 29", 62#, with a 361gn arrow, with a Wisker Buiscuit rest, no peep, and string loop, at a very fast 311fps. On a futher note, the handshock was very minimal, it was quiet, the draw cycle was better than what I thought it was going to be. It has a little hump to get into the stop but not to bad, at least at 62. Sorry to ramble like this but I wanted to give you my opinion on this bow.
PSE has a winner with this. Now the hard part, finding the money to buy one.

Chuck


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## raylloyd01 (Jan 26, 2007)

vonottoexperien said:


> Infomercial nothing more, just like bow-flex, V-tec outboards, and a host of others.


:blah: :blah:


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## BigBuck Man (Feb 23, 2007)

*Understanding Brace Height*

I was reading the X Force reactions and noticed two things. First, this is the most closed minded web site I have ever read. Everyone just wants to trash everyone that doesn't shoot the bow they shoot.
Second, nobody even understands brace height. Most importantly, the static brace height of a bow is not what matters. The real test is the dynamic brace height. That is simply how far the string moves forward on the shot. This is why STS systems are popular. The problem with the STS system is that it dramatically effects nock travel and not in a good way.
For example, if anyone is open minded enough, the X force dynamic brace height when shot on a high speed camera is actually within a 1/4 inch of the other bows tested, even though they have up to 1 1/2 inch higher brace height. 
The other historical problem with short brace height bows is that the arrow is on the string longer. That is eliminated by looking at the dynamic brace height and speed.
Hopefully someone will read this that actually wants to learn something and note just trash what they personally shot.


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

BigBuck Man said:


> I was reading the X Force reactions and noticed.....



I've also noticed that an inordinate amount of people who try it, buy it.
And a good percentage of those that did try it and did not buy it say they will, either when they get more money or next year after the technology proves itself out.


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## ghaug (Jan 8, 2004)

I thought the video was good and should have opened up a lot of eyes. I shoot a Mathews LX with a BH of 6 5/8 and love it. Everyone told me the Prestige with a 6" BH was too small and critical for hunting, so I bought me another LX...I talked the shop owner into buying a prestige for his hunting bow and loved it. Short draw and he got awesome speed.

For me 70lbs aren't all that, especially for hunting...I would rather pull 50lbs and get the same speed as a 60lb bow. I have not had the opportunity to shoot on of these but I think I will try to find one and shoot it to see how it feels.


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## tek (Feb 1, 2005)

*Vectrix*

Most everyone knows that when you take the string rubbers out of the Hoyts they will loose 6 to 8 fps. unless you add weight back on the string. They do more for speed on Hoyts than quietness  
IMO they got a bad rap on that.

Other than that I liked the tests, its good to see PSE back in the game.


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

tek said:


> Most everyone knows that when you take the string rubbers out of the Hoyts they will loose 6 to 8 fps. unless you add weight back on the string. They do more for speed on Hoyts than quietness
> IMO they got a bad rap on that.
> 
> Other than that I liked the tests, its good to see PSE back in the game.


I wanna see evidence of where they lose FPS when taking them off. I have only witnessed a speed advantage...


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## psedave (Jan 26, 2007)

*PSE Shooter*

Ever notice how some people just cant stand for PSE to put out a good bow. 
Must be an insecurity issue I gues.
Thats why its called 
PRECISION SHOOTING EQUIPMENT. 

psedave
bruin pro series 
x-weave 300
limbsavers 
team primos
mossy oak


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## outdoorattic (Feb 25, 2006)

I don't know if the X is any good or not. I do know if you have not shot the bow there is no possible way to know if it is good or not. Infomercials can make anything look good. Try it and then make up your mind. That is the only way to buy a bow.


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

psedave said:


> Ever notice how some people just cant stand for PSE to put out a good bow.
> Must be an insecurity issue I gues.
> Thats why its called
> PRECISION SHOOTING EQUIPMENT.
> ...


No I think it is, poeple can't stand the constant SPAM, and rediculous advertising...:wink:


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## coelkbowhunter (Jul 16, 2006)

*X Force*

I SHOT THIS BOW FOR 2 HOURS YESTERDAY,SWEET SHOOTER,KNOW HAND SHOCK,DOES NOT HIT YOUR ARM WITH A BIG HEAVY COAT.I THINK THIS COULD BE THE BEST PSE I HAVE EVER SHOT AND THAT PSE HAS MADE.IT DOES NEED A STS TO TAKE SOME STRING TWANG OUT.BUT VERY QUIET.:star: :star: :star: WY BEST HUNTING BUDDY TRADED HIS BOWTECH GAURDIAN IN ON THIS 60# XFORCE WE TESTED.WE GOT 3 XFORCES IN AND SOLD ALL 3 YESTERDAY.THIS WILL BE A GREAT 3D SHOOTER AND ELK KILLING BOW.


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## john09040 (May 15, 2006)

Jeff K in IL said:


> No I think it is, poeple can't stand the constant SPAM, and rediculous advertising...:wink:


For a guy who dosent like the X-Force you sure post a lot on threads about it.I actually bought one,ordered it before these videos came out.I think there marketing campaign was a little aggressive but my local PSE dealer didnt sell a single PSE last year its possible they needed some press.I have owned them all Prestige,Conquest 3,Apex7,Elite E-500,07 Allegiance,Equalizer.The X-Force is 10-15fps faster than any of them and far quieter with less shock.The spamming was a certain dealer wanting to make some quick $$$$ of the popularity of this new bow.I havent seen any from PSE as a company.I am sure there are engineers in Sparta conspiring to steal PSEs crown as we speak.Thats how we get these great bows.I even read somwhere that PSE even has some better bows developed for times to come.Catch us if you can,I think that they have been caught.


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## tek (Feb 1, 2005)

Jeff K in IL said:


> I wanna see evidence of where they lose FPS when taking them off. I have only witnessed a speed advantage...


They add weight to the string in the right place. I took them off my Vulcan and lost 6 fps. Put them back on the factory strings, speed came back up. When I built my new strings I left them out and the speed dropped 7 fps. I gained that back by adding brass nocks 3" from the cams. BTW I'm not the only one that has seen this done :mg:


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## Snakebite (Sep 3, 2006)

I have mine on order and yes the bow is unbelievable until you shoot it.

My honest .02 is to keep an open mind find a local PSE shop and shoot this bow. If you do not like then you do not like it. I do think though you will be enlightend in the leap forward PSE has made in a HUNTING bow. Who wouldnt like 1 pin for out to 40 yards?

I give a :thumbs_up to Pete Sheply!


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## trimantrekokc (May 16, 2006)

Jeff K in IL said:


> No I think it is, poeple can't stand the constant SPAM, and rediculous advertising...:wink:


boy....you must really hate bowtech then if you don't like constant spam and really dislike mathews if you don't like rediculous advertising....


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## Jeff K in IL (Nov 4, 2005)

trimantrekokc said:


> boy....you must really hate bowtech then if you don't like constant spam and really dislike mathews if you don't like rediculous advertising....


I do dislike Bowtech because of their shooters...:darkbeer: 

I shoot Mathews, but take their advertising like a grain of salt. The only tests I pay attention to are the ones done by people like Norb Mullaney...


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## ELKhuntR (Feb 5, 2006)

I think you're wrong. The noise tests showed, that for a fast bow, it compares in noise to the top hunting models from respectable mfgs.

Fast yes, penetrating machine?, yes!

and quiet, yes sir!



Steeler Fan said:


> How? Mathews had the Black Max Years ago...been there done that. Bowtech had the Black Night years ago....Been there done that. Hoyts Vulcan would be considered their "speed" bow but thats about the closest comparison...until you draw each of them side by side, a blind man could tell you which one would be faster. PSE just made a super fast bow...we get it already, these test prove little if anything that we don't already know. It will sell, no doubt about it, but it won't outsell the Drenalin, Vectrix or Trib/Ally etc. It's a cool bow, I like it, but it's not an ideal treestand bow thats for sure, no thanks. Build it with a 7- 7.25 brace height with an IBO in the 330's and more hunters will look at that....and other manufacturers are there already.


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## ELKhuntR (Feb 5, 2006)

should have said Draw weight and not draw length above!


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## ELKhuntR (Feb 5, 2006)

so should norb start doing all the testing for manufacturers.

Come on now? 

watch and learn. The X-Force is going to be a killing machine!


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## ELKhuntR (Feb 5, 2006)

I personally like the video. Who else is doing this? Plenty of mfgs and writers could do this if they want. PSE took the ball and ran with it.

And in all honesty, THe X-Force wasn't first in noise levels. It was second. Don't you think if they were being biased, they would have won in this cateogory also? I mean since speed and penetration is relative to the IBO specs. Keep rolling them eyes!

Best is yet to come. Wait till them kill shots start flooding AT!



Jeff K in IL said:


> When a private company, or person does a comparison on all of the 2007 bows, then I will watch and listen. But there is not one company that I trust to make a 100% truthful comparison of the video and bows; who would want to do that, show that other bows are better...


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## Kiser1981 (Apr 8, 2007)

*APA Black Mamba X1 V (PSE X-Froce)*

Has anyone shot the APA Black Mamba X1 they say its faster then the PSE X Force, they say the Black Mamba X1 at 70 lbs with a 30 inch draw
with a 350grain arrow will shoot 353fps THE black mamba X1 has a more forgiving axal to axal of almost 36'' then the short axal of the X-force 33'' (food for thought!!)


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## Shaman (Jun 19, 2005)

Kiser1981 said:


> THE black mamba X1 has a more forgiving axal to axal of almost 36'' then the short axal of the X-force 33'' (food for thought!!)


Do a search, I think there are a couple post about direct comparisons by owners and/or shop Pros.

The crux of this whole thing is that PSE is breaking the mold for BH and ATA.
They supposedly changed the rules of the game with this bow and their whole X Line. If it is true, then the old school thought of my ATA is better than your, or my BH means it is more forgiving than yours, needs to be adjusted.

Almost everyone that has shot the X-Force says it is a HUNTING bow with speed. Not a speed bow you could hunt with.


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## djkillaz (Apr 14, 2005)

Kiser1981 said:


> Has anyone shot the APA Black Mamba X1 they say its faster then the PSE X Force, they say the Black Mamba X1 at 70 lbs with a 30 inch draw
> with a 350grain arrow will shoot 353fps THE black mamba X1 has a more forgiving axal to axal of almost 36'' then the short axal of the X-force 33'' (food for thought!!)


I was told that they tested a apa black mamba at the ATA show. and with same specs. didnt come close to there own specs. I wasnt there.. So its just hear say. But he's a pretty reliable source..


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## ten is afriend (May 22, 2006)

*x-force*

here is what i got while playing with an x-force at shop

60 lbs 30 inch draw 485 grn arrow - 264 fps
thats approx. 76 lbs ke


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## Oryx (Feb 5, 2007)

*good stuff*

Expect a lot of good things from this bow! Enjoy! :smile:


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## Prodigyoutdoors (Jul 3, 2005)

the firestorm x is a swweet bow too nice vid.


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