# Form Commentary Please



## LoneAggie (Jan 10, 2005)

A little background: I took a small break from shooting much last year due to life interruptions, and as I'm really getting back to shooting a lot I've taken the opportunity to re-evaluate some of my shooting basics so that I can improve past what I have done in the past. A few months ago I tried starting to shoot with my nose touching the string. It felt very odd at first, and now it feels very odd not to. I've switched to a 33" ATA bow, but as its in the shop I've been blind baling for the last two weeks with my SB XT which is a shorter ATA bow. 

I'm looking for some overall tips of things I can improve. I realize I probably have things that are "comfortable" because I've done them that way for a long time, but may not be correct.


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## LoneAggie (Jan 10, 2005)

Yikes is it that bad?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

We just can't see much from that photo. From what I can see, you generally look good, except for tilting your head forward & maybe something with your grip. But there is a lot that can't be seen.

Photo from all 4 sides. Make sure we can see your feet and head in all photos. Aim at a spot that's exactly shoulder height so the arrow is level. If possible an overhead shot is very helpful.

Are you having any specific problems such as your pin diving or big float or short jerky float? What are your group sizes at 20, 30 & 40 yards? Not the best 3 arrow group you shot one day, but the largest group that you usually shoot every day. Do you get a lot of flyers or just a few?

Are you primarily a hunter or do you also shoot 3D and/or spots?

Allen


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## LoneAggie (Jan 10, 2005)

Thanks aread, I'll get more photos, and answer some of your questions. 

1st I'm concerned about draw length as I know it is critical. 
Second I'm concerned about my head position as I didn't want to give up to much position just for the nose reference.

My biggest shooting problem is a lot of bow shoulder tension which results in a rapidly degrading sight picture. I've been working on it, but it is probably tied up with the fact I used to have TP so bad I would let the bow down instead of fire the shot. A couple of years ago I learned to shoot a thumb trigger with BT and found relief. My group sizes at 20,30,40 respectively per your criteria are roughly 4", 6", 10". I usually get just the occasional flyer that seems to result usually from a shot sequence taking too long. I'm primarily a hunter, but I really want to get back into 3d also.

I had a rough season launching arrows at animals this year, and it woke me up to the fact I wanted to diligently improve my shooting skills.

Other possibly relevant information is my wingspan measurement is 70" and my DL is 28". I switched exclusively to a hinge release 3 weeks ago, and that has become a very positive feeling as it gets more and more comfortable and automatic.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

The bow shoulder tension is something that I'm very familiar with. After years of a pretty stable float I started getting worse and worse. Fortunately, I got some help from Alan Lui at his seminar at Lancaster Archery. Without even realizing it, I had let my bow shoulder drift away from the arrow. Alan got me to move my bow shoulder closer to the arrow to establish the "power triangle". This is one of the fundamentals that I learned many years ago, but had not kept up with over the years. I'll try to find a picture of the power triangle and post it. 

The good news is that my float is better than ever. The downside is that all my bows are about 1/2" too short now. You may end up with the same problem and since your bow is a Mathews, you may need a new cam. However, before you order it, lets see what happens when we make any adjustments from the additional photos.

Allen


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## LoneAggie (Jan 10, 2005)

Good points, Mathews just replaced everything on my bow except the riser, and I think it came back with the DL wrong. I have to take it into the shop to confirm a few things since the rebuild. I'll get some photos with it as is. My Chill R I believe takes draw modules, but I could be wrong so DL changes I think are a tad more convenient than they were with my SB XT. I'll take photos with both the Chill R and the SB XT.


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## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

with the short bows sometimes its impossible to get the string to the nose,what i see is a tense bow hand with to much hand in the bow, wrist sling looks to tight also. pic is dark cant tell much on the shoulders or dl. always show a pic. shooting at LEVEL target. i think i see a old style wood matt. grip . if it has the grove in it for the thumb i recommend a different grip like a shrewd.a switchy is a great bow.


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## LoneAggie (Jan 10, 2005)

Here are some updated photos from today from different angles. I did my best to get as much of me as possible in them and them be in good light. Should be able to get an overhead this weekend. From looking at these are there any other angles I should try to grab when I have some help?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

The main thing that strikes me in these photos is inconsistency of stance and shoulder position. Did you change the bow's DL between the 1st and 4th photo?

I think that getting your bow shoulder down will help with help with stability. Also experiment with a little shorter DL. The way you are leaning back in the 1st photo is pretty bad and it's the only one in which your arrow is level. A shorter DL will allow you to get your shoulders down so you can be more stable with targets on the same level as your shoulders.

As far as the angles and alignment, I think you are on the right track.

Hope this helps,
Allen


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## LoneAggie (Jan 10, 2005)

All the same DL within 15 minutes of each other. I've been experimenting with opening my stance just a little, but find once I open it at all I have trouble repeating it every shot. I'm going to drop 1/2" on DL this week and see how that feels for a while. Do you think by putting my nose on string I am forcing anything?


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

Until you get your DL and stance sorted out, don't worry about your nose on the string. Work on balance and alignment.

Nose on string is a good reference, but isn't mandatory. With the short ATA bows, it often causes head tilting which is a bad thing. The best position is with your head erect and centered over the center of your body mass. The better your balance, the more stable you will be. 

Hope this helps,
Allen


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