# Need help with arrow flight



## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok, so I am in need of some help. I recently put a new sight and new rest on a fairly new/used bow. I paper tuned in my garage at 10 yards and was getting perfect bullet holes. 

My next step was to sight in outside at 20 yards (that's all the room I have in my yard). 

So, I shot at 10 yards a few times just to make sure that everything was lined up and shooting well, then moved back to 20. I noticed that when I moved back to 20 yards, my arrows were entering the target a little crooked, but at 10 yards they were perfectly straight in line. 

I went back to 10 yards and shot 2, then back out to 20 yards and shot 2 more. I tried to put them in line so it would make it easier to tell which shot was doing what. I've attached pics of my shots.

Here's what I'm shooting:

2007 Fred Bear Truth at 28" DL and 70 lbs
Whisker Biscuit Sure Shot rest
Spott Hogg Right On sight
Gold tip XT Hunters 7795 @ 28 inches with 100 grain field points (395 grains

Thanks for any help/advice you may be able to provide.


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## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

another pic


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## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

One more


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

It looks like your spine is correct; however, I read about a lot of folks with vane/fletching clearance issues when using the Whisker Biscuit.

Is it possible that the vanes are striking the outer edge of the biscuit and the presentation of straight entrance at 10 yards and side-ways at 20 yards is a symptom of the arrow “fish-tailing during flight? If so, you may actually find the arrows sticking into the target from the other side at 30 yards (is you had the space).

I have also heard of using lipstick on the biscuit rim, shooting and seeing if any of the marker is missing. If so, you have fletching contact. 

Then you move the biscuit in the direction to which the lipstick was removed, re-mark and shoot again. Continue the process until no more of the marker is being removed.

Another quick and dirty method is to install a long rod into the front stabilizer hole, nock an arrow and sight from the top of the bow downward, centering the rod with the riser. Then adjust the rest until the rod and the arrow are in the same plane.

Good Luck, my Truth is a killer!


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

konrad said:


> ...the presentation of straight entrance at 10 yards and side-ways at 20 yards is a symptom of the arrow “fish-tailing during flight? If so, you may actually find the arrows sticking into the target from the other side at 30 yards (is you had the space)....


Whatever the cause, this would probably be the case. I'd guess that the arrow is launching at a tilt, and oscillating back and forth (fish-taling) as it leaves the bow. At 10 yards, it's between peaks in the oscillation, so it's 'tuned' through paper, but it's not.

I'd look at a paper tune, or shooting your arrows, or both, at 5 yards and see what that shows you.


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## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to try to go somewhere that I can extend my shooting out to 30-40 yards and see what happens. I'll start at 5, then 10, 20, 30, 40...you get the idea. 

Hopefully it's that simple, either a minor adjustment to the rest or a whole new one altogether . I'll try putting lipstick or something on the edges of the rest to see if there is indeed contact. 

Any advice on a drop away rest that's easy to tune and something I could get set up fairly easily and cheaply? Thanks!

I'll post pics of my results when I finally get out somewhere with adequate space to shoot!


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

This is just a suggestion, but I would start over with the paper tuning. Because you have fletching on the arrows you should not paper tune at 10 yards. You should start at about 4' from the bow. The whole idea of paper tuning is to see how the arrow is leaving the bow; not what it's doing down range where the fletching has had time to correct any flaws in the tune.


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## Bonz (Jan 15, 2006)

Could it be possible that when you shot the arrows at 10 yards that your target moved or slid on the ground? And then when you shot at 20, it appears as if your arrows are at a different angle because the target is facing you the exact same way as the 10 yard shots?


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## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

Nice try Bonz...I thought of that too. Just to make sure that wasn't the case, I took a 25 lb flat rock and placed it on top of my target. Pretty sure it didn't move . 

Any other thoughts, suggestions? 

I'm fairly limited on shooting space (can only get out to 20 yards), but with that in mind, is there anything I can do to help solve this problem. I will be trying paper tuning again at a closer range than 10 yards. How about bare shaft? Is that even worth it?


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## bfisher (Nov 30, 2002)

OH, a bare shaft you ask? That's how I tune. You can even make it more interesting by bare shafting through paper at closer distances.


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## skc347 (Dec 9, 2004)

*arrow flight*

get a friend plus an open field and shoot 100 yards plus,watching flight.when all u see is nock...done.


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## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

Wisker Biscuits will effect arrow flight to some degree no matter what you do. I have two family members that switched to QAD's because we could not get good flight out of them. 

K.I.S.S- Start from the beginning and move forward.

1. Is your rest adjusted so your center shot is perfect? Line up your string with the top and bottom cam with an arrow nocked. Look and see if your arrow tip is in line with everything. If not adjust it so it is if you use a realease. If your a finger shooter you will want to adjust the arrow tip away from your draw hand slightly. 

1.b shoot and see how your arrows fly.

2. After you have established center you will want to see what kind of clearance issues your having when shooting the arrow. Foot powder works well. Spray it on the rim of the biscuit to see if your fletching is hitting the ring. (What fletchings are you using?) If no contact is present then you should be good to go.

3. You right at the line is needing a 5575 and 7595 arrow. If you are under 70lbs draw or if you arrow shaft is less than 28" you may be slightly overspined. 

This is a starting point at least.


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## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

What size biscuit is on your rest? Was just thinking it may be too small or big...


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## Chris Morton (Apr 4, 2008)

Maybe I missed it, but it seems you really need to walk-back tune it. You'll need more than your 20 yards, so it may have to wait. Paper tuning is a good start, but I've heard plenty of shooters talk about a bow that shoots same point-of-aim with field points and broadheads, and paper shows a tear.

Get it close on paper, then walk-back and paper-tune when you have more distance available.


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## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll do some walk back tuning and then paper tuning again when I get a chance to get out to farther yardages. 

Cardiac, to answer your question, I'm not honestly sure what size rest it is. I got it used from my local archery shop here in Austin, and to be honest, the guy never even gave it a second look to see if the fitting was correct. Either way, the arrow sits in the rest pretty good, very, very little room to wiggle around. It looks right to me, but I really don't know how "right" should look . I can take a picture if that would help.


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## CardiacKid74 (Jan 18, 2005)

You should have a little play with the arrow in the biscuit meaning voided space. Not the ability to move the wiskers. About 1/16 clearance from top of arrow to the wiskers above your arrow. 90% of carbon shafts use the medium disk. 

Did you make sure your center shot was all in-line?


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## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

Sigh...No, I never did check center shot. Long story short, I got the bow used from a fellow AT-er. I put a new rest and new sight on it, but never did any of the above. First thing I did was line everything up by eyeballing it, then started shooting in the garage through paper. I moved the rest around until I was shooting bullet holes at 10 yards, then went outside and starting shooting at the target at 10 and 20 yards. 

So, being new to bow hunting and bow tuning, it seems that I've missed some crucial steps in tuning my bow. Where should I start...which step? There are so many tools available...center shot, walk back, bare shaft, paper tuning. Which one should I start with and which should I end with? 

Sorry for the newb questions. I just want to get this bow shooting properly so I can be ready for spring pig season here in Texas .


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

IMO, if you can shoot at 30 yards, I would set the arrow square to the string, about the height of that hole that the rest mounts to (assuming you have a standard rest mount) walk back tune for center shot. But if you can't, paper tune at the previously suggested 4 yards, going for center shot first, then adjusting height if you have to. I would also take a sampling of different arrows. If they're all doing different things, you know that the tuning method is going to be difficult. If they are doing different things, it might be worth trying to rotate the arrows 120 degrees to see if you can make them match each other more closely. 

You don't need to move the rest very much at all. Try to keep increments as small as possible, certainly less than 1/16th of an inch.

I'm trying to internalize the wisdom a smarter man than I provided, who said that sometimes it's not worth panties in a bunch to tune perfectly (I'm paraphrasing), but straight arrow travel, particularly left right, is hard to do without.

You can also tune by moving the rest until you get the best grouping. of course, the human factor can be frustrating


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## newjigger (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok, so if I can't get out to 30 yards, you think paper tuning at a close distance first is best. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say to paper tune, going for center shot. Does this mean simply paper tune until I get good left and right tears (no left and right arrow travel), and don't worry about hi/low yet?

I think that the wisdom that was passed down to you sounds right on. I definitely agree and don't want to take this tuning thing farther than I have to. I just want to be confident that when I take my bow in the field, I know that the arrow is going to hit and penetrate into the animal as best it can. That way I'll have better success and there's less chance of anything going wrong with the shot.


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## konrad (Mar 29, 2009)

Close-up shooting through the paper will reveal how the arrow is leaving the bow. The goal is to have the arrow pushed as straight as possible right up front.
This will impart the most energy to the shaft that the particular bow can generate and minimize the amount of work the fletching will have to do in stabilizing the arrow.

The longer it takes for the fletching (or vanes) to properly orient the shaft in flight, the more energy is lost downrange (drag on the sides of the vanes instead of the edges) and if the arrow strikes the target prior to stabilization, it hits at an angle. Because the shaft is not hitting squarely, energy is consumed in shaft vibration instead of penetration.

If the shaft is wobbling through the air it not only looses energy but the point of impact will be unpredictable at odd ranges (poor grouping). It doesn’t matter if you are hunting or target shooting, accuracy is the goal and added (or maximized) penetration is a benefit of a “tuned” bow when hunting. Many folks have problems when using fixed blade broadheads after sighting-in with field points because the flat blades catch the air immediately upon launch whereas it takes some 15 feet for feathers or vanes to start stabilization. By that time, the arrow is already moving in a different direction and will not strike where the field points were hitting.

Eyeballing is a good place to start; however, true center shot is not necessarily the centerline of your riser. It is the center of force being applied to your shaft. Raising or lowering nock position or raising or lowering your rest position will change the vertical line of pressure. Moving the rest towards the riser or away from the riser changes the horizontal line of pressure.

NO BOW IS PERFECT REGARDLESS OF BRAND NAME!

You are trying to get the best performance from your archery “system”. That is why starting with a properly spined shaft (the relative resistance to deflection or bending) is so important. If the arrow is too weak, it spends too much time oscillating erratically.

My (and most folks’) major problem is not equipment but correct, consistent technique; starting with, but by no means limited to twisting of the riser by the archer’s hand. Inconsistent interface between the bow and archer produces most of the headaches in the world.

Sorry about the length of the post by it can't be said in one or two lines. This is just the way I have come to understand "Center Shot".

K


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