# OAA is it worth it



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

The OAA's great at organizing stuff. It's the Trad shooters who aren't showing up. 

Just short of 300 people shot the 10-ring Indoor Championships, about 230 shot the 5-ring Indoors this past few months. Just 8 Trad shooters in each, 7 of them the same people in both events. I don't know your name - did you shoot in these events?

The OAA is the "Ontario" Association of Archers, not the "Southern Ontario" Association of Archers. Shoots are held in different regions of the province so everyone has a chance once in a while to attend a major shoot in their own area.

It costs the same for a Trad shooter to travel to all 3 legs of the triple crown as it does for a compound shooter.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Yes but stash wouldn`t it be better to hold them in a denser populated area so you will get more shooters and more entry fees and more money for the oaa .. just good business sense I think .. And the figures you quote are they not for all of ontario over a extended time period ... lets not go by class as there where only like one x bow shooter in some of those tournaments.. its not a class thing as it is a location comment.. I think the poster is getting at...


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## TOOL (Apr 11, 2006)

Are there clubs in southern Ontario that have offered hosting but been turned down? I can think of many clubs that would bring in much greater numbers (Durham, York, Wolf's den, etc.) but I don't think they've requested them. Honest qustion, as I really don't have any idea.


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## DXTCLUE (Apr 4, 2010)

Read page 50 of the OAA Directory


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Yes but stash wouldn`t it be better to hold them in a denser populated area so you will get more shooters and more entry fees and more money for the oaa ..


This may shock you, Ted, but I agree with you. However, it's not what the membership indicated that it wants. 

The rotation of outdoor events through the 5 zones has been in effect for years, and was put in place because people from Dryden, SSMarie, Sudbury, Ottawa, Windsor were sick of paying time and money to come to the Toronto area every time. The OAA was accused of being a Toronto-based organization, and so to satisfy everyone, the membership voted to have the championship events circulate on a regular basis throughout the province. Maybe not the most financially sound decision, but the fairest and most democratic.

If it's time for a change back to the way it was when all the target events were always held at Caledon, well, go ahead and make a suggestion in the proper way to have the rule changed.

As for the numbers of attendees - without actually analyzing the numbers, I get the impression that target seems to be growing, 3D seems to be fading. Recurve and Compound numbers are strong, while the "minor" divisions (please don't take that as a derogatory description, only descriptive as to the numbers of participants) fluctuate, die off, barely hang on.

If few Crossbow shooters want to shoot the indoor championships, well, it's not really a game that is best suited to that division, due to limited space on the line for a horizontal bow and the quick reload time required for times events. To a lesser degree with Trad - indoors is just boring for most Trad shooters.

If you have other suggestions for making OAA events more attractive to the archers who elect to shoot outside the most popular equipment divisions, let's hear them.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

My point denser population better chance of higher attendance numbers...for all classes


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Went to a small shoot on sunday 125 trad shooters 15 minuets from my house in Ottawa...


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

TOOL said:


> Are there clubs in southern Ontario that have offered hosting but been turned down? I can think of many clubs that would bring in much greater numbers (Durham, York, Wolf's den, etc.) but I don't think they've requested them. Honest qustion, as I really don't have any idea.


As DXTCLUE said, the bidding procedure is posted in the Directory. Each OAA event rotates annually to a different zone of the province and clubs in that zone can bid to host. If no club in that zone bids to host, then it's opened up to any club in the province.

The thing is, it's very rare for 2 or more clubs to bid to host an event, and in many cases, it's necessary to do some arm twisting to even get a club to put in a bid. The OAA can't force a club to host, and it certainly doesn't have the means to provide financial incentives to induce a club to host.

You have to remember, this is a volunteer-run organization. What people who have a complaint call "The OAA" is not really the OAA - it's actually just a small number of volunteers who give up much of their free time to organize, administrate and assist with several sets of events and services according to the established rules. "The OAA" doesn't make the rules - it follows them.

The fact is, _*the membership*_ is the OAA, not just those few volunteers.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Went to a small shoot on sunday 125 trad shooters 15 minuets from my house in Ottawa...


Great. Find out what they would like from a provincial association (if anything), then speak with the provincial association to provide it.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

they don`t need a provincial assoc as the numbers substantiate..


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

The OAA is not seeing anything different than any other group or organization in just about anywhere. Low volunteer, low membership and low turnout to meetings. 125 to a trad shoot must have been more there than a regular all divisions in shoot. I would love to host a major event down here but we need other clubs to jump in to get it done, and we do have good properties to put on major technical shoots that would challenge. We all throw our share of negative comments at some points but the way I look at it if you want to throw you better be doing the work...........for free like the rest of us. Does OAA need to grow and change...............yes. Where will archery be in Ontario without them??? Less say in the sport. less of the sport. We need to support all forms of archery and it is time that a new blood group steps up. The work to start needs to begin at this years AGM as a change in leadership will happen. The leadership has done a good job of doing the best they can with limited resources and help.............the proof is OAA is still here and has a voice in archery in Ontario. Our Voice!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

question ???is the oaa based out of Caledon only because of the volunteer base and location.. I ask this only because if the majority of new exec where located some where else could the oaa be relocated to accommodate them as well. Is this possible..??????


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Please don't take my post as a bash at the OAA, it was not intended to be, more a frustration at the locations always used. 3 years in a row the 3D's have been way up north somewhere. It may be that clubs down here don't bid for them I don't know but all I can say is that the current thinking isn't working looking at the numbers. I would love to support the OAA but can't justify a drive to the Soo to go up against myself.
There are a decent number of trad shooters down these parts who would be intersted in giving it a go but few are willing to travel. I would love to go back to Flying Feathers to shoot but if the numbers aren't there I will go elsewhere.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Flying feathers has provincials this year and is always a hoot and reasonably travel located.. we`ll be there .. so there will be some trad shooters .. Joe and Sharon and the club regulars put on a great shoot..


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Not much the OAA can do if clubs in the South are not putting in for the legs of the TC. What should the OAA do...not have a TC because no one wants to host down South? ..or have it up North. I understand it's a long drive for some of you to come up North (...believe me....I do the exact same drive in the opposite direction...all the time!), but some of these Northern clubs have outstanding courses that will challange anyone who comes up. 

As for having only one person in your class......put yourself in another class. I bet there are some traditional shooters who would beat people in the Hunter class. I'm not saying this is the answer.....but what can be said....if people do not want to travel......that is there choice.

The Soo is a long way to go. For just about everyone. But....they have great set ups and even better people running them. Campgrounds on site and loads of stuff to do if you want to make a trip out of it.


Come up. Shoot the North......you won't be disapointed!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Jd is one of the avid few like my self who make the trips camp out don`t shower for days lol lol and have a hoot around the camp fires.. archery is just like that ...the regulars and the weekend warriors ..Good points have been made by all who have responded and a few questions still remain unanswered ???? seems the oaa has not had this much constructive print in along time.. to the better I think...


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

I shot Flying Feathers and Restoule the year I won the TC so I know those clubs and the people there and they are all good that's for sure. I am not even sure how many hours away the Soo is but when I plan my shooting year I always look at bang for buck. Where will be the best shoot for my limited time and money. I opted for the IBO triple crown, Trad worlds and R100.
I understand the problem of clubs not volunteering but isn't it about time something was done to force or encourage them to host.
I will gladly make a 12 hour drive for a weekend shoot if there is going to be a class worth shooting in but at the moment there isn't.
York County are hosting the 3rd TC leg so I will shoot that but as a non OAA member. I thought about joining again to shoot the Field champs at York but again you're looking at $80 entry, $50 OAA membership to shoot in a class of 2 or 3, the numbers just don't add up.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

bigjono go to the ibo worlds in seven springs pa you will shoot against the best there from all over.. read rules for bow set up though as they follow the category rules .... also could we get you to update your bio here on at so we know who we are talking too and where from thanks... Fellow trad shooter..


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Classic, I had to choose between the Worlds and the Trad Worlds this year and chose the Trad. I qualified again for the worlds but at the end of the day the Trads just have a better and bigger field. The worlds are really for compounds now and I can see the trad classes getting dropped soon, that is why we have our own champs now.
There is a big Canadian (and British) section making the trip from as far away as the Soo and even the Yukon showing that shooters will travel for the right events.


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## DXTCLUE (Apr 4, 2010)

Bigjono said:


> I shot Flying Feathers and Restoule the year I won the TC so I know those clubs and the people there and they are all good that's for sure. I am not even sure how many hours away the Soo is but when I plan my shooting year I always look at bang for buck. Where will be the best shoot for my limited time and money. I opted for the IBO triple crown, Trad worlds and R100.
> I understand the problem of clubs not volunteering but isn't it about time something was done to force or encourage them to host.
> I will gladly make a 12 hour drive for a weekend shoot if there is going to be a class worth shooting in but at the moment there isn't.
> York County are hosting the 3rd TC leg so I will shoot that but as a non OAA member. I thought about joining again to shoot the Field champs at York but again you're looking at $80 entry, $50 OAA membership to shoot in a class of 2 or 3, the numbers just don't add up.


Its $60.00 entry fee, unless you want in the open class then its $80.00 and good luck with a trad bow cause theres only one open class at the Field Champs


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## DssBB (Feb 21, 2010)

Based on the number of archers and clubs throughout Ontario and the actual number of attendees at these major OAA shoots, you would think the OAA would re-think how they set up the actual shoots. I realize the amount of effort needed to host a shoot but from an archers point of view, it's also not only tough to be able to make some of the long treks to the shoots but also the cost involved on going to one. Has the OAA ever considered remodeling how they have the triple crown currently set up and possibly branch out into 4 geographic divisions such as Ontario North, East, Central and West with each region having their own divisional shoots and then host one grand final shoot centrally located with the top 3 or 5 shooters qualifying from each class and division to compete in a final shoot off. These local shoots being ran in each division could become divisional round robin shoots similar to how the Seaway Challenge is ran.
There are enough clubs currently hosting shoots throughout Ontario but if the OAA was to become involved and assist or help with hosting some of the local shoots along with having their presence at these local shoots it may greatly increase the attendance of not only the club shoots but the OAA membership. 
The OAA could or would have to establish 4 separate committees who could also assist the clubs on behalf of the OAA with canvasing the archery industry as in the manufactures and distributors to have some presence at these shoots or assist with acquiring prize donations.
The only way for the OAA to grow is to become more involved in the 3D aspect of the sport as well as branch out and establish a tournament format which would be fair and accommodating to all archers throughout Ontario.

Just my 2 1/2" cents


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> question ???is the oaa based out of Caledon only because of the volunteer base and location.. I ask this only because if the majority of new exec where located some where else could the oaa be relocated to accommodate them as well. Is this possible..??????


You don't seem to be getting the concept.

"The OAA" is not "based out of Caledon" or anywhere else. Well, OK, if you have to be technical about it, the Office Administrator does live in the town of Caledon and does the membership and other stuff out of her home. But she's not even an archer - her family is involved, so she helps out.

But the President is in the London area, and the other Directors are scattered around the province. Board meetings are held where it's cheapest to get everyone together. The AGMs are held wherever a suitable location can be found.

We will need a new President after Adam's term is complete. Maybe this person will be from Ottawa, SS Marie, Thunder Bay for all anyone knows. Maybe Lynda will want to keep doing the admin work, maybe she won't. Who knows? 

When's the last time the OAA had more than one person nominated for a Board position anyways? We had an election I think when Adam was voted in for president 5 years ago, but other than that I can't remember us needing a vote for any Executive position for a long, long time. 

Where the Board lives and has their meetings is immaterial to this entire discussion anyways.

The OAA is mandated to sponsor several championships each year, and these are held at various clubs which offer to host the events. *The clubs are responsible *for running the shoots (within the rules), and _*the clubs are the ones*_ who need to step up their game to get people to show up. If people choose not to go to these Championship events, the OAA has little say in the matter.



> The mandate of the Ontario Association of Archers Inc.(O.A.A.) shall be:
> 
> To develop, promote, expand and perpetuate participation in all forms of the sport of archery throughout the Province of Ontario.
> 
> ...


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Bigjono actually your wrong the worlds numbers are great ..was there for the last 4 years even the ru class has increased numbers you don`t have to qualify for the worlds ..we are international shooters so you pay your 20 dollars and you get to go ..as I said been to the worlds 4 times ...there are probably as many trad shooters or more at the worlds than at the trad worlds .. and you get guys from Spain and England and Austria and all over ..And you do shoot with the best .. jimmy black-men.. Jim Powell etc etc...Try it .. you`ll be surprised and humbled ....


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

DssBB said:


> ...if the OAA was to become involved and assist or help with hosting some of the local shoots along with having their presence at these local shoots it may greatly increase the attendance of not only the club shoots but the OAA membership.
> The OAA could or would have to establish 4 separate committees who could also assist the clubs on behalf of the OAA with canvasing the archery industry as in the manufactures and distributors to have some presence at these shoots or assist with acquiring prize donations.


 In a perfect world that would be nice, but again, the "the OAA" you are talking about doesn't exist. Who exactly would you expect to do all this work? We can't even find someone interested in running for President after the current President's term expires. We have vacant positions on the Board just aching for someone to step up and offer their services.

Remember, this is a volunteer-run organization and we don't have the human or financial resources to do anything more than the little we do now.


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

Any shoot that is in the book is a OAA Member Club. As Ted posted there are some great ideas here but they need like anything...Support at the AGM Level to apply the change or policy. 
I looked at this a year an a half back and thought OAA needs to do more or maybe we should look for something new. Two things changed my mind, the work to build a new group and the second one was support for it. Hard enough to keep OAA doing the best it can and years of hard work by some great people who have left us or are burned out from wearing too many hats. If you are committed to change then you have to commit to drive that change......simple logic.
When we put on a shoot we are supporting our club, our sport and the OAA. But for the time and work people......archers have to show up. We can not drag you out, nor would we. You get what you give.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

DssBB said:


> Based on the number of archers and clubs throughout Ontario and the actual number of attendees at these major OAA shoots, you would think the OAA would re-think how they set up the actual shoots. I realize the amount of effort needed to host a shoot but from an archers point of view, it's also not only tough to be able to make some of the long treks to the shoots but also the cost involved on going to one. Has the OAA ever considered remodeling how they have the triple crown currently set up and possibly branch out into 4 geographic divisions such as Ontario North, East, Central and West with each region having their own divisional shoots and then host one grand final shoot centrally located with the top 3 or 5 shooters qualifying from each class and division to compete in a final shoot off. These local shoots being ran in each division could become divisional round robin shoots similar to how the Seaway Challenge is ran.
> There are enough clubs currently hosting shoots throughout Ontario but if the OAA was to become involved and assist or help with hosting some of the local shoots along with having their presence at these local shoots it may greatly increase the attendance of not only the club shoots but the OAA membership.
> The OAA could or would have to establish 4 separate committees who could also assist the clubs on behalf of the OAA with canvasing the archery industry as in the manufactures and distributors to have some presence at these shoots or assist with acquiring prize donations.
> The only way for the OAA to grow is to become more involved in the 3D aspect of the sport as well as branch out and establish a tournament format which would be fair and accommodating to all archers throughout Ontario.
> ...


Great idea, since you proposed it you can set up the format and the 4 seperate committies, over see its operation, submit it to the OAA board for ratification at the AGM, I look forward to reading the final proposal


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## DXTCLUE (Apr 4, 2010)

Hey Classic. I see that no club from your clubs area bid on the Ontario 3D Championships for next year ???


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre (Nov 27, 2007)

You're a real TOOL


DssBB said:


> Based on the number of archers and clubs throughout Ontario and the actual number of attendees at these major OAA shoots, you would think the OAA would re-think how they set up the actual shoots. I realize the amount of effort needed to host a shoot but from an archers point of view, it's also not only tough to be able to make some of the long treks to the shoots but also the cost involved on going to one. Has the OAA ever considered remodeling how they have the triple crown currently set up and possibly branch out into 4 geographic divisions such as Ontario North, East, Central and West with each region having their own divisional shoots and then host one grand final shoot centrally located with the top 3 or 5 shooters qualifying from each class and division to compete in a final shoot off. These local shoots being ran in each division could become divisional round robin shoots similar to how the Seaway Challenge is ran.
> There are enough clubs currently hosting shoots throughout Ontario but if the OAA was to become involved and assist or help with hosting some of the local shoots along with having their presence at these local shoots it may greatly increase the attendance of not only the club shoots but the OAA membership.
> The OAA could or would have to establish 4 separate committees who could also assist the clubs on behalf of the OAA with canvasing the archery industry as in the manufactures and distributors to have some presence at these shoots or assist with acquiring prize donations.
> The only way for the OAA to grow is to become more involved in the 3D aspect of the sport as well as branch out and establish a tournament format which would be fair and accommodating to all archers throughout Ontario.
> ...


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

I wouldn`t know as I`m not the other clubs ...and fifi hate to say it ..your just so upbeat and positive... not...


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## DXTCLUE (Apr 4, 2010)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> I wouldn`t know as I`m not the other clubs ...and fifi hate to say it ..your just so upbeat and positive... not...


Did your club bid ??


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

new club one year old have only had one tournament but did donate 2k to the hospital from the ONE tournament ..dxtclue did your club bid ???and the name of your club is ??????


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

Before everyone gets all wound up about this thread. I think there are some great ideas being put up. Maybe not all are doable but good ideas non-the-less. This is a great place to "brain storm" thoughts. Some of these thoughts will sprout even better ideas.... and that is what makes the OAA run some days. Archery in Ontario might be at a crossroads. The "old school" people like FIFI, Stash, Me and a few others would love the newer, more energetic archers to take the reigns a bit and try to steer this buggy... may work... may not.... but I bet some of the current or recently past executive and members ideas were "not welcomed" to some of the older archers, but started to work and change for the better (or worse)... but involvement at least... greatly appreciated. 

Whatever happens here or at the OAA I still believe that the archers of Ontario need to support the OAA. I find classichunters comments "they don`t need a provincial assoc as the numbers substantiate.. " to be very counter productive to archery in Ontario. Sad really. But that's just my opinion... take it at that. 

In the last 10ish years the use of "forums" has grown by leaps and bounds. It is great that everyone can have their opinion and voice it where everyone can see and comment on. The OAA is the same way... owned and run by the members of the "forum/membership" Everyone's opinion is allowed and needed. These people need to read what the OAA does and come to the AGM and step up and or change what needs to be changed. This is the future of Archery in Ontario... and I will support it to the very end. Even though I don't always agree what they do.

Chris


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## DXTCLUE (Apr 4, 2010)

Nope the bid was for eastern ontario.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

chris this was in response to stashs comment / dig .. you have to read all and I mean all of the posts some are replies.. and the shoot I went to was in quebec Had nothing to do with ontario.. seems your quite quick to dump on some one but have no positive input to better the situation.. just my opinion same as you are entitled to yours..


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

Don't think you ever mentioned the shoot was in Quebec... didn't say it was in Ontario either... This is a post about OAA so I don't see where an Quebec shoot fits in here... maybe I missed it. 

And I do see all of Stash's posts and everyone else's... he is for sure the most intelligent and experienced archer I know. Been involved longer than I have been alive.... almost. I just want the people on here to stop fighting and start acting like the leaders I believe that they are. Including you Ted... I really want the OAA to take off huge!!! We have the best province and archers... hahahahaaha


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

chris good response.. I would love the oaa to really take off as well .. like yourself we do have the passion for the sport.. seems like again the 10 or so of us who post frequently have some great ideas .. but not the energies to implement the ideas.. as we have volunteered for 8-10 years on average. personally I don`t have the time.. I`m trying to get my club up and going.. expanding the 3-d range .. putting up an new building on the premises for some indoor shooting. setting up a lesson session for the kids in town. put on by the township who have asked me to spear head this . and also put on PandP archery`s charity tournament. and if you look there are some great door prizes .which takes door knocking.. And then I still have my real job on top of that.. Again I apologize to any one I offend but usually its in a response to a unrealistic comment.. and yes ontario does have the best archers geez just look at you and me lol lol


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

araz2114 said:


> Stash... is for sure the most intelligent and experienced archer I know.


You forgot to add "and most modest".


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## DXTCLUE (Apr 4, 2010)

And he forgot most humorous


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

is it worth it.... well.. i think so, like you I am in the trad class, well modern trad (R/U), and am an oaa member just to support archery, and enter a few tournaments, yes usually there is just a few in my class and more competition would be great. Yes it sucks to spend the time and money to attend these tournaments and shoot against yourself or just a few, but i look at it as tournament experience and scoring is scoring, what i do is check scores form past/present and all other events and compare. I support(pay for membership) the oaa in the hopes of seeing the discussions here to into action one day, some excellent ideas come and go once you see past those who choose to bring forth the negative instead of focusing to bring forward positive change, the other thing is as long as there is a few of us showing up there is hope for better one day, should there be none, it may be dropped completely and once you loose something its very very hard to get it back. I selfishly hope you continue to support the oaa and continue to attend tournaments, that way I will have one more score to compare and may have more company in the same class to shoot with.


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

Wiz w/a Sceptre said:


> You're a real TOOL


 Thank you for that well thought out, articulate response.


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## cc46 (Jan 22, 2005)

good thread guys..we all have a passion for this game...keep building on the ideas...and lets get some young blood in here too


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

wanemann time to take off that flipper rest and shoot off the shelf.. and enter trad class .. Pauls waiting to kick your butt lol lol lol


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Now that everybody has cooled down I have a question.. and I have gone on the oaa site .. maybe it is not there for the average member to access.. what is the executive compensated when it comes to travel re meetings and events .. food ... accommodation... travel.. car plane etc.. I did ask this before in another thread and it was never answered .. If the oaa wants to get a new Motivated executive this posting might help.. this should not be candle stein info .. and I used the word perks before,,,Please no smart ass answers ..and no go to the web site and search it out answers .. some one please inform the membership what is available and you might get some responses to fill the exec voids... keep it civil ...please


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Now that everybody has cooled down I have a question.. and I have gone on the oaa site .. maybe it is not there for the average member to access.. what is the executive compensated when it comes to travel re meetings and events .. food ... accommodation... travel.. car plane etc.. I did ask this before in another thread and it was never answered .. If the oaa wants to get a new Motivated executive this posting might help.. this should not be candle stein info .. and I used the word perks before,,,Please no smart ass answers ..and no go to the web site and search it out answers .. some one please inform the membership what is available and you might get some responses to fill the exec voids... keep it civil ...please


Why don't you simply call Adam and ask him, I beleive it is in the policy manuals


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Nobody makes a financial profit from being on the OAA Board or Committees. Legitimate expenses for OAA business are covered. Travel by the cheapest reasonable means (like, you won't have to take a bus from Thunder Bay to Toronto). Mileage to cover fuel expenses. Modest motels/hotels, unless accommodation is provided at the home of another person. There is a per-diem for meals, but I can't say what it is at this time. 

None of this is in published documents for everyone to see, but the OAA has a policy manual with the guidelines. All revenues and expenditures are audited by an independent agency (as is required by all not-for-profit corporations) and as an OAA member you are entitled to this information. All you have to do is ask, again, in the proper venue, not on an archery discussion forum.

--------------------------

As an aside, but I think pertinent to this where this might be heading, keep in mind when going through the OAA rules that these are a constant work in progress, written by many individuals over many years. 

The current version of our Constitution and By-Laws which was presented to, voted on and passed by the membership was originally carefully written by an experienced corporate lawyer who was also an archer. This was some 30 years ago, and he put together from the previous rulebook, scraps of information, unwritten rules, bits and pieces of procedures, and the picked brains of experienced OAA members to produce a pretty decent document. Hundreds of hours of work, and free of charge, by the way.

Since then, with annual rule changes being introduced, and different people with different writing and editing skills making contributions over the years, the form of the document has evolved. Some is very precisely worded, some is a bit confusing. But the intent of the document and of the OAA itself still remains true to the association's mandate - to benefit archery in Ontario.

So if you see something in the rules that might possibly be interpreted in a negative way, or don't see something you might expect should be there, please make the assumption that the intent of the written words is positive. 

It's nothing more than us not having the resources to pay someone to keep everything written in perfect legalese. Nobody is conspiring to gain anything personally. Nobody is trying to steer the OAA towards or away from anything. There's no hidden agenda, and certainly nobody is in it for the "perks". There aren't any.


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

Well worded Stash. But whatwas the question?
I think it's worth it to answer the original post


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Guys as stated do you want a motivated exec fifi I worded this post so I wouldn`t get answers like yours please try to help instead of being so negative out right what do you have to hide .. help not hinder and stash same for you simple answers please is all that was asked for and we are paying members ..entitled to this information.. Do you guys want a new exec or not?????


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

Stash said:


> Nobody makes a financial profit from being on the OAA Board or Committees. Legitimate expenses for OAA business are covered. Travel by the cheapest reasonable means (like, you won't have to take a bus from Thunder Bay to Toronto). Mileage to cover fuel expenses. Modest motels/hotels, unless accommodation is provided at the home of another person. There is a per-diem for meals, but I can't say what it is at this time.
> 
> None of this is in published documents for everyone to see, but the OAA has a policy manual with the guidelines. All revenues and expenditures are audited by an independent agency (as is required by all not-for-profit corporations) and as an OAA member you are entitled to this information. All you have to do is ask, again, in the proper venue, not on an archery discussion forum.
> 
> ...


when you are this defensive and no one is attacking it looks well.. weird, you did a good job of answering all of what classic asked regarding food, travel, accommodations, etc, if I understand you correctly there is nothing really there to motivate new executives to the oaa as he asked, you covered that in your first two paragraphs. why did you fell you had to share the rest ? is there something in the rules that might possibly be interpreted in a negative way ? has some one been accused of conspiring to gain something personally ? it almost seems as though you are trying to say that if one reads the document it may appear that the intent doesn't match the mandate but that isn't the case so don't, I guess you are just beating the negatives should any arise??


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

wanemann said:


> I guess you are just beating the negatives should any arise??


Exactly. Being pre-emptive. Maybe in my head I got too far ahead of the discussion ... 

Motivation is the whole issue, though, isn't it? The OAA should do this. The OAA should do that. The OAA is worthless. The OAA can't do squat. These types of comments are not motivators.

Ted is motivated to run his shoot and raise money for the hospital. Why? What's in it for him? I don't know, but he knows. I'd like to think it's for the satisfaction he feels from helping people in need. But if people complained constantly that his shoot was run poorly and that he couldn't organize for squat, and he should do this or do that instead of the way he's doing it now, I'm pretty sure he'd get fed up sooner or later and give it up.

Why was I motivated to take on the various positions I held with the OAA and the FCA for so many years? I had my reasons. I wanted to see things done for the benefit of Archery. I wanted to give back some of my time and effort back to repay the sport that has shaped my life. It sure wasn't for the $10 daily meal allowance on Board meeting weekends in Ottawa, or the joy of the 6 hour drive home on a Sunday night in February. I kept those positions for as long as I thought I was being useful, or until someone better came along.

The point is, we can't motivate people to want to be volunteers - it has to be in them from the start. We can make it easier for them by being supportive rather than complaining all the time, by not dumping everything on the shoulders of half a dozen individuals and burning them out.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Oh, and yes, the OAA definitely IS worth it.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Stash you should read the posts about my shoot.. all positive...so maybe there is something to be learnt from that...again though my shoot is not at the center of this discussion. Seems you talk in circles and nothing is really said . You can`t stick to the agenda at hand . as some of the other posters have asked of you answer the question.. you go into a big discussion that no one benefits monetary wise being on the exec.. well that point was never asked. I`m sorry but man get in the game .. you so many times have said to me I don`t get it...now its time to look in the mirror can you answer these simple questions then ... How much per mile are you paid to travel.. how much per night for hotel... how much per meal food allowance... If you can`t answer then please don`t respond ..and let some one who does know whats going on respond.. To HELP get a full exec at the oaa


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Don't turn this personal guys. The people who run the OAA I am sure do a good job for no money, so don't criticize them but the simple truth is that in its current form the big tournament side of it isn't working and the members have a right to discuss this.


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Classic, I don't want to derail this thread and you are right that technically we don't need to qualify so that begs the question why is there an Ontario qualifier?? I won the NY state champs to qualify again this year so I might see how the cash is. I have shot it a couple of times and yes the big guys like Jim, Jummy, Ken and Scott turn up but to say it attracts the same numbers as the trads is way off. Take the 3 big classes of Trad (rec), LB and RU and the overall numbers are Worlds 43 and Trads 153 but total numbers I guess are closer to 300 if you include the people who shoot there for fun only. 
This is OUR big shoot and should be supported by everyone.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

bigjono I was saying numbers where good at worlds to your response numbers where low .. I personally think trad numbers are increasing for all tournaments as yes they have been low for a few years and again this is for all classes .. archery goes in stages .. the kids get older and the interests change so even mom and dad don`t show.. Its like my neighborhood.. all older people now kids gone and school down the street shut down.. now new first time buyers coming back into this area and all have babies and they will probably have to build a new school I also thought you where looking for some competition to compare your shooting skills ..Introduce yourself if you shoot the provincials at Madawaska .. and good luck at the trad worlds and the worlds both say hello to the boys for me ..If you hook up with Garry Millar one of the nicest guys to shoot with // Pilotmill on at here


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> How much per mile are you paid to travel.. how much per night for hotel... how much per meal food allowance... If you can`t answer then please don`t respond ..and let some one who does know whats going on respond.. To HELP get a full exec at the oaa


I don't know. I know what the expense coverage was when I was involved and I'm sure costs are higher now. But this question has been asked and answered in this thread by me and Fifi, and well as a similar question for the FCA level in the World Cup China thread. This is not the appropriate forum for this discussion and you won't get an answer here from anyone on the Board. But just call someone up and ask. I certainly hope that the amount of the meal allowance for Executive and Board meetings isn't a deal breaker for anyone wanting to get involved. 

I wrote that section on the OAA rules for the reason I stated and later clarified:


> As an aside, but I think pertinent to this where this might be heading


 and


> Being pre-emptive. Maybe in my head I got too far ahead of the discussion


Perhaps you should read all of my posts as you so often suggest that I read all of yours (which I do, several times to make sure I understand them).

--------------------------------



> You can`t stick to the agenda at hand


_*I *_can't stick to the agenda at hand?



> wanemann time to take off that flipper rest and shoot off the shelf.. and enter trad class .. Pauls waiting to kick your butt lol lol lol


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Stash I thought this would enlighten someone to maybe step forward.. I presumed you had the answers .. and would enlighten the potential candidates.. thanks


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

Can't we all just get along????


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

Here are some facts to respond to some of what I've just read.

Stash, you're awesome. Thanks for your support and explanations. They are dead on.

The 'O' in OAA stands for *Ontario*. We are a provincial organization and for those who haven't traveled it, you can drive for 2 days and not get out of the province. I'm in SW Ontario and can get to Sault Ste Marie in the same amount of time as I can Ottawa.

The stakeholders in the OAA are, in no particular order: Membership, Archery Canada, Government of Ontario. These are the people and organizations that influence our bylaws, rules and regulations, and policies. The people who "do stuff" as the OAA are, except for 1 part time paid staff member, overworked volunteers who the membership choose.

The OAA "office" is in Caledon because that's where all memberships and cheques get processed. We don't have a building with lots of resources. The office is, as stated, a room in someone's house. A large portion of the current board is actually west of Kitchener and we hold our board meetings wherever they will be cheapest to hold, often by phone.

Because we are a provincial organization we have to be fair to all of our members, from all over the province. Long before I became involved in the OAA there was a bidding rotation set up. Because of this, the events we sponsor move around the province so that the travelling would be spread out for everyone. This is done by a bidding process and the membership chooses where the events are hosted. 

There hasn't been a 3D championship in southern Ontario in a number of years because there are no clubs in the south that have made it known that they want to host it. If you'd like to see provincial 3D events in southern Ontario *start canvasing your club to host the events or they will stay in the north. I will expect a flood of bids at the AGM in Waterloo on October 28th :nervous s. These bids will be for 2014 giving lots of time to get ready.*

We could change the bidding process to be appointed by the OAA. If this is something the membership indicates they would like Bigjono and ClassicHunter are hosting all 3 legs of the triple crown. Just sayin' this is the way it could be.

The farther north a shoot goes (3D/Target/Field/etc) the less financially viable it becomes. This is just a fact. I have numbers to back it up. 

The position of the President will be vacant starting at the AGM unless there is someone nominated and voted in by membership.

*OAA is it worth it?*

Yes. Aside from the "stuff" you get and can see like insurance, rights to shoot and vote at OAA events, and other stuff you can read about, *you are a member*. 

Why is this a good thing? For one thing, you are stating you support archery in Ontario and want it to stick around. A second reason, the Government of Ontario provides grant money (your tax dollars) to sports organizations (Archery, Hockey, Fencing to name a few) to those organizations that can provide names as people who participate in their sport. If you are not a member we have no way of saying Bigjono shoots archery in Ontario. The more members you have the better your share of the funding pot. The better the OAA's share of the pot the more flexibility we have in our programs and the more funding it frees up to do other things like subsidize shoots.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Guys as stated do you want a motivated exec fifi I worded this post so I wouldn`t get answers like yours please try to help instead of being so negative out right what do you have to hide .. help not hinder and stash same for you simple answers please is all that was asked for and we are paying members ..entitled to this information.. Do you guys want a new exec or not?????


Yuo are really unbeleiveable, you are given the avenue to find the information and refuse to use it then claim I am being negative for giving you avenue to find it for yourself.......really I mean really


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## DXTCLUE (Apr 4, 2010)

Is the OAA membership up or down from past years ?


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Adam what I take from your response is that no clubs from the central or south of ontario have applied to host.. Do you have a take on that why this is so ??? then again things can change and more bids would come in ...is it the criteria the club has to follow to be a candidate.????? You have the requests..by number and areas...can`t figure it out myself york, durham etc are large clubs central locations ideal spots .. what do you think is making clubs shy away .....


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Now that everybody has cooled down I have a question.. and I have gone on the oaa site .. maybe it is not there for the average member to access.. what is the executive compensated when it comes to travel re meetings and events .. food ... accommodation... travel.. car plane etc.. I did ask this before in another thread and it was never answered .. If the oaa wants to get a new Motivated executive this posting might help.. this should not be candle stein info .. and I used the word perks before,,,Please no smart ass answers ..and no go to the web site and search it out answers .. some one please inform the membership what is available and you might get some responses to fill the exec voids... keep it civil ...please


Send me an email ([email protected]). Once I've found the time, and after verifying things like membership I will respond. The financial specifics of the OAA are not something that should be publicly published and debated.

In short, the compensation is enough to cover expenses. It is not an incentive to volunteer. The perks of the job include knowing you are contributing to something great.


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Adam what I take from your response is that no clubs from the central or south of ontario have applied to host.. Do you have a take on that why this is so ??? then again things can change and more bids would come in ...is it the criteria the club has to follow to be a candidate.????? You have the requests..by number and areas...can`t figure it out myself york, durham etc are large clubs central locations ideal spots .. what do you think is making clubs shy away .....


No, there has been nothing from the southern clubs recently. Generally speaking these large central clubs haven't had that one person passionate enough to go to their clubs executive to get permission to host the shoot. Andrew has been working with the executive at York and that is why they are hosting the 3rd leg of this year's triple crown. 

The criteria to be a candidate is: must be a member, must send in a bid. The bid must satisfy the membership that the club is capable of hosting the event. If sending in a bid that you can support 40 3D targets and have a volunteer base to host the event it scaring clubs away I'm not sure what to change.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

adam that criteria is not to hard to fulfill by the looks of it thanks for the quick responses.. I really will hate to loose you as president.. and I am sure all of the archers wish you the best in the future ...


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## shakyshot (Dec 21, 2007)

CaptainT said:


> No, there has been nothing from the southern clubs recently. Generally speaking these large central clubs haven't had that one person passionate enough to go to their clubs executive to get permission to host the shoot. Andrew has been working with the executive at York and that is why they are hosting the 3rd leg of this year's triple crown.
> 
> The criteria to be a candidate is: must be a member, must send in a bid. The bid must satisfy the membership that the club is capable of hosting the event. If sending in a bid that you can support 40 3D targets and have a volunteer base to host the event it scaring clubs away I'm not sure what to change.


You can change nothing.It is the people that brun nthe clubs that need to be willing to do exactlly what you do.
Volenteer there time.

Original question,Is the OAA worth it?
If you want to support the future of the sport you love and judging by some of the bickering on here,I think some of us have lost sight of why we started shooting,Yes the OAA is worth it! 
If you do not wish to support it that is your choice.
I just think people get WAYYYYY off track on this sight.
Simple question not requireing cut throat responces.
Fifi,Stash,Araz.Thankyou for the intelegent information.

Just my opinion.


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## Wiz w/a Sceptre (Nov 27, 2007)

I just Love FiFi

I can see some of you are trying to think outside of the box, however the thin air ir really buggering you up, back to earth now - just saying ; )



FiFi said:


> Yuo are really unbeleiveable, you are given the avenue to find the information and refuse to use it then claim I am being negative for giving you avenue to find it for yourself.......really I mean really


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

It's a real shame that the clubs down here won't host anything. Galt, HaHa (my home club), York, Oxford, Islington all have facilities capable of hosting a 3D's.
I may be taking over the running of the archery section at my club next year so may look at trying to host an OAA event or perhaps an iBO provisional champs.
For me, if I am fit and healthy, which I am for the first time in 2 years now, I want to shoot against the best fields that I can. At the moment that means iBO shoots. I only have so much time and money available for archery tournaments every year so I have to pick wisely. The OAA 3Ds and 2nd leg had to lose out to the iBO triple crown for ease of getting to and quality of field, sad but that's how it is.
I will be honest here, I have not joined the OAA for the last 2 years as there has been nothing for me to shoot. I would love to support it again in the future so watch developments with interest.


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## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Bigjono said:


> It's a real shame that the clubs down here won't host anything. Galt, HaHa (my home club), York, Oxford, Islington all have facilities capable of hosting a 3D's.
> I may be taking over the running of the archery section at my club next year so may look at trying to host an OAA event or perhaps an iBO provisional champs.
> For me, if I am fit and healthy, which I am for the first time in 2 years now, I want to shoot against the best fields that I can. At the moment that means iBO shoots. I only have so much time and money available for archery tournaments every year so I have to pick wisely. The OAA 3Ds and 2nd leg had to lose out to the iBO triple crown for ease of getting to and quality of field, sad but that's how it is.
> I will be honest here, I have not joined the OAA for the last 2 years as there has been nothing for me to shoot. I would love to support it again in the future so watch developments with interest.


I say this without any malice intended, but you have a very selfish view of archery in Ontario. The "what's in it for me" syndrome. Unfortunately you are not alone. The primary goal of the OAA is to promote the sport at a whole. Your choosing not to support the OAA, by way of a membership, speaks volumes about your mindset. Maybe you'll have a little different view if you do infact take up some slack at Galt, and get your feet wet. 

I have more than a little experience hosting tournaments, including numerous provincial events, and I can tell you that Galt hosted one of the best 3D Provincial Championships that I have ever seen. That was a lot of years ago, and the reason it was such a success was due to the level of commitment made by the club and its members. There is nothing preventing Galt from doing the same again, as with any other club. It just takes commitment and support. The fact that Provincial Championships (3D and otherwise) have gone to clubs outside of the "southern zones" in recent years, when they were on the rotation to be held in those reqions speaks to how hard it is for a club to get the support of their membership to host an event.

People are worried about the OAA.............. you need to be worried about your local club first. The rest follows.

Pay your OAA membership, then get involved with your club.

Cheers

GE


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

greyeagle have to agree we do need the oaa...first and mainly is for the clubs to survive.. we all need insurance and we all need a central landmark governing body.. Bigjono if you are going to take over the 3-d part of your club you need the listing just to get attendance....Some would like the oaa to maybe change its operational procedures and practices .. and who knows new blood new ideas .. just my thoughts ...join power in numbers


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

I feel the OAA reaches areas that are often overlooked by some of it's members. I can think of a few small archery shops that rely on the OAA book and it's shoot listings to help make ends meet. This would include target or spot shooting as well as 3D. Myself i am happy to pay the OAA fee just for the information the book provides me on things like any updates to equipment divisions and club shoots. Nonprofit implies for the benefit of others without self gain and i am certain we are getting just that from our OAA volunteers. Change for the better is always a good thing and is brought about by the sharing of ideas. Keep your OAA strong and share those good ideas with it's volunteers.


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

I always join the OAA anyway... and probably always will. The insurance alone is worth it. I hope I NEVER have to use it!


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## Btension (Jun 28, 2011)

araz2114 said:


> I always join the OAA anyway... and probably always will. The insurance alone is worth it. I hope I NEVER have to use it!


Totally agree Chris!!!


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

GE, HaHa is my club, not Galt.
It may strike you as a mercanary attitude but my time and money is limited so I use both as wisely as I can. I have nothing against supporting federations and clubs, I am one of the only archers around here that supports everyones shoots within about a 2 hr drive but I can't join every federation. I shoot iBO every year, I shoot IFAA every year and I shoot NFAS every year so I join them, I haven't shot OAA since 2009 so can't justify it.


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## dogguy (Aug 9, 2005)

From my perspective the OAA has been great. My family has been members for several years. The shoots held across the province has given my son and I the opportunity to meet others with the same passion. As a result we have developed friendships that will last a life time. It has also given my son the opportunity to shoot competitively at other clubs. Without the OAA our knowledge of tournaments and locations for shoots would be non-existant. I appreciate the OAA and all the volunteers that go with this organization. In Northwestern Ontario we don't have the luxury of driving a few hours to a shoot. The Soo just over seven hours away has been a regular stop for many from the Thunder Bay area. We also travel to the US anywhere from three or more hours away to make shoots as well. I also like to see how other clubs host these events as well and it allows me to bring back information to our club and directors to make things better or at least show how we can make things better. Volunteers are the back bone to any organization. I applaud them all...not sure if that was all on topic but just adding my thoughts.
Shane


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Shane, I think by the amount of response this thread has had that all comments are valid, we are just discussing the OAA.
The point you made about knowing where the shoots are is a good one, I too use the website to plan my years shoots so that's a huge plus for the OAA and the clubs. 
I know in the UK you have to be a member of the NFAS to shoot in an open shoot at an NFAS club, that is easy when you have 150-170 archers at every shoot every weekend. I have been to shoots here where there was 6 people. I still think the idea of regional champs is a good one to bring shooters and members in, I would buy in to that.
The OAA does a great job but at the end of the day tournament numbers are poor so perhaps new ideas and a total rethink might help everyone.


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## GenesisAlpha (Jun 26, 2009)

As with others here I agree there is always a need for change and new ideas, at the same time a provincal organization can only do so much. They Advertise the shoots, they support us with insurance to which many clubs would be forced to shut down or run without and possibly bear the brunt of a law suit that would dig deep into the personal finaces of those that volunteer to put them on. They are there to support youth programs and education to coaches which in both cases OAA is second to none. They are there to help secure grants and funding that support the above programs. They help to keep us up to date one rules and regulations that apply not only to Ontario but international as well. 
There are areas we fall short but with input we can make a bigger difference on BowHunting issues in this province. All this would take is participation by more who care enough to volunteer their time.
Above all of this, the future is in the hands of those who want the oppertunities there to take advantage of.................the key is you have to show up. Support the shoots in your areas and if you can get involved, that will secure the future of archery in Ontario and grow and strengthen the OAA.


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## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Bigjono said:


> GE, HaHa is my club, not Galt.
> It may strike you as a mercanary attitude but my time and money is limited so I use both as wisely as I can. I have nothing against supporting federations and clubs, I am one of the only archers around here that supports everyones shoots within about a 2 hr drive but I can't join every federation. I shoot iBO every year, I shoot IFAA every year and I shoot NFAS every year so I join them, I haven't shot OAA since 2009 so can't justify it.


How do you shoot IFAA and not belong to the OAA? As I know it, IFAA membership in this country is gained through the FCA, and in Ontario you gain membership to the FCA through your membership in the OAA.

Are you shooting in the UK as well?


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## Bigjono (Apr 21, 2009)

Yes I am.


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