# 3d target clarity, lens, clarifier, etc, need help



## ride394 (Oct 16, 2006)

Is it actually blurry or are you saying the magnification just isn't enough to see the rings?


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## MedCop (Jul 6, 2014)

ride394 said:


> Is it actually blurry or are you saying the magnification just isn't enough to see the rings?


It's blurry, not clear.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Try a smaller aperture, 1/8" is really quite large.

-Grant


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## MedCop (Jul 6, 2014)

grantmac said:


> Try a smaller aperture, 1/8" is really quite large.
> 
> -Grant


Outdoor 3d I did try a smaller aperture but 1/8 fits my scope perfect for a nice peep to scope picture and anything smaller wasn't letting me see much as several lanes are darker.


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## Uzurmnd247 (Jun 1, 2009)

I was told by a Swarovski Rep. that the optimal distance for seeing through their lens the best was 32". From peep to scope or pin. I have a 27 1/2" draw. So I put my nine inch sight bar all the way out. It is 32 1/2 " from peep to scope. Give this a try. This will make your sight picture smaller. You can then use a smaller hole for your peep, which will also help clear the scope up.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

despite the "optimal distance" you need to set the focal distance to satisfy your eyesight. because everyone's eyesight is different, the focal distance is simply the distance that a particular len's surface radius diffracts the magnification to fit the distance between lens and peep for a typical set up at one specific sight bar extension (usually 9 inches). if your eyesight is "typically 20/20", that distance, or close to it, should work, but only if your eyesight is 20/20. things like the use of a clarifier or verifier, it's power and the size of the peep's orifice, or your eyesight, will affect the focal distance you require. add to that the possible desire for a slightly our of focus or a sharp sight picture, and you can see that the "optimum focal distance", doesn't really mean much at all.
basically, the "optimum focal distance", is simply a sales pitch, that says, "our lenses are ground to be used with archery equipment", and that's about all.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

grantmac said:


> Try a smaller aperture, 1/8" is really quite large.
> 
> -Grant


 here, we delve into that "short bow" problem again. as the string angles become more acute, the peep moves away from the eye, when a more or less typical anchor point is used, requiring a larger orifice to focus through.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

the yellow is actually a #1 clarifier what color was the other one you were using?


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Your expectations of seeing the scoring lines is your problem, the really good asa shooters can't see them either. What they do is memorize where the scoring rings are at on the target so that they have a feel for where they should be and then they float on that spot.

Then you use markers which could be a competitors arrow or some sun light or a shot up spot on the target to also help but you aren't going to see the scoring rings with your naked eye or scope on the bow. You will see them with your bino's only.

I practice this by drawing scoring rings on cardboard all the time with a sharpie that I can see with my binos but I can't see with my naked eye or through my scope and i practice hitting the 12 ring out to 40 to 50 yards over and over until the card board develops a hole in it that I can then aim off of as a marker. I also use my first arrow that may or may not be in the 12 ring as a marker and shoot accordingly with my second arrow. 

Doing this training all the time I teach myself to hit what I can't see.


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

As Padgett stated - many things come into play but the reality is very few see many of the scoring rings with their lenses.

Sometimes the sun is nice and bright on a 35 yard target and you can see them, other times the same target at 25 under different conditions you cant see them.

The angle of the targets and how the lines catch the sun or shadows comes into play.

Many of the top pros shoot no lense, or much lower magnifications than most would expect. Im guessing it has everything to do with them just knowing where the 12 ring is and hitting it.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't think i'd be able to get a shot off with a 4 power, much less a 5 power, on a rubber animal. way too much movement. I've never been able to use a magnifying lens for 3d, I've always had a fairly large float range of movement and even when I tried a 2 power, it was always difficult to commit to a release execution, beyond about 20 yards.


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## MedCop (Jul 6, 2014)

rohpenguins said:


> the yellow is actually a #1 clarifier what color was the other one you were using?


Sorry typo, using green #2, was yellow #1


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Padgett said:


> Your expectations of seeing the scoring lines is your problem, the really good asa shooters can't see them either. What they do is memorize where the scoring rings are at on the target so that they have a feel for where they should be and then they float on that spot.
> 
> Then you use markers which could be a competitors arrow or some sun light or a shot up spot on the target to also help but you aren't going to see the scoring rings with your naked eye or scope on the bow. You will see them with your bino's only.
> 
> ...





Garceau said:


> As Padgett stated - many things come into play but the reality is very few see many of the scoring rings with their lenses.
> 
> Sometimes the sun is nice and bright on a 35 yard target and you can see them, other times the same target at 25 under different conditions you cant see them.
> 
> ...


Hey, you guys have shot 3D before! 

Yep, many use no lens and most don't exceed 4X. Clarifiers are not the widely used by anyone I know except when going beyond 4X and even then the #1 (yellow) clarifier is said good up to 6X.

Personally, I'd set the 5X off to the side and get a 3 or 4X lens.

Things to check;
Is the lens seated properly in the housing? If not, correct.
Is the lens square to you? You can't do much for horizontal and retain your 3rd axis, but vertical angle of the lens can be adjusted. Okay, lens not square to you and distortion can come.
Adjust extension bar in or out to give the best clarity. 
Is the peep in the string correctly? The installation side of the peep should face you. I don't think it makes a difference, but instruction say to install the super peep in this manner. What to look for is the opening of the orifice nearest center of the peep. 
Is the peep the correct peep? Super peeps come in two angles, 37 and 45 degrees. 37 is for under 40" ata bows and 45 is for 40 and over ata bows. The 37 will have one dimple and the 45 two dimples.
With a clarifier the peep needs to straight as possible as angle again can cause distortion.
And there is the Tim Gillingham thing with peeps. Use shrink tubing over the peep. See Pic. It can be as such or have the tubing extend both forward and backwards. Possible aid for seeing straightness, but mostly for reducing of glare and/or reflection.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Minor adjustment to Sonny's excellent post:

The 37 degree peep is for longer ATA bows. I just went through this since I was using a bow which was borderline.

-Grant


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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

From Speciatly site




Ultra Lite 37 Degree Peep

SKU: 749-37UL 

1/8″ Ultra Lite Peep Housing 37 degree, for Bows 40 & Shorter. 
- See more at: http://www.specialtyarch.com/produc...eeps/standard-peeps-316/#sthash.n2tp5F9b.dpuf


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

grantmac said:


> Minor adjustment to Sonny's excellent post:
> 
> The 37 degree peep is for longer ATA bows. I just went through this since I was using a bow which was borderline.
> 
> -Grant


Garceau already put up the Specialty link. I'm using a 45 degree in my Pearson MX2 with 40 1/4" ata and a 37 degree in my Pearson MarXman with 37 1/2" ata.

I've been playing with the Super peeps since 2000. 2 or 3 years ago Specialty was said to be coming out with a 3rd angle peep, but it never came about. 
Made a trade once and more of anything because this person didn't like his bow. He wanted to trade his 2011 for my 2006 even up. I shot his and he shot mine. With both shot each others bows great, but I did have some trouble seeing. So we started stripping down our bows and lo and behold he had a 37 degree peep in his 41 1/4" ata bow. We stopped right there. I told him this was probably his problem, but he still wanted to trade. I don't think he really believed me even though I showed the dimples on the peeps. I switched out the 37 for a 45 and commenced placing and winning like always. The old Martin forums site is gone. I posted of at least 6 high overalls in 3D with that trade bow, 3rd place in a ASA State Championship and one high overall in a ASA DAIR Indoor State Qualifier. Okay, I traded my 2006 Hoyt ProElite even up for a 2011 Martin Shadowcat and at the end of the year got lucky and sold the Shadowcat for more than I could get for my ProElite.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I still can't wrap my head around needing a sharper angle for a longer bow. You would think the peep was more upright with the longer ATA.

Well bugger, I just ordered a 37 and should have got the 45.

-Grant


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

grantmac said:


> I still can't wrap my head around needing a sharper angle for a longer bow. You would think the peep was more upright with the longer ATA.
> 
> Well bugger, I just ordered a 37 and should have got the 45.
> 
> -Grant


The numbers get you  Think a 90 degree angle _| 45 degrees, steep, would be half for the longer ata bow. 37 degrees, being less steep, would be for shorter ata bows.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I was thinking the angle was relative to the string, not relative to the horizontal.

I will have to look for the dimples on the one I'm currently using.

-Grant


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