# Win & Win WS-600 detail photos



## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

I hunted long and hard before I decided upon what sight to go with. One thing I discovered is that good detail shots of almost any sight available (or on perpetual backorder) are hard to find. You're left pretty much in the dark unless you can find someone who owns one so you can see it in person. You never really know if you're going to like the mechanisms, indices, or quality until after you've spent your cash.

I bought a Win & Win WS-600 sight from a fellow AT-er - another lost sale for retailers that just can't seem to get anything in stock. I'm pretty impressed with this sight. I used to shoot a Sure-Loc Challenger when I shot compound, and the Win & Win makes the Challenger look somewhat crude and clunky in comparison. Add to that the indices on Sure-Loc for windage and the top of the elevation knob are indexed relative to open air so you never really know if you're on the same mark or not. I have no doubt the Sure-Loc is super durable and able to handle the rigors of compound bow use, but the WS-600 is so nicely crafted and is just so much more usable and elegant. The quality and precision remind me of my tool & die maker friend's measuring calipers and the things he used to build.

In any case, for those of you who may be considering a WS-600 sight but don't have enough good photos to judge if you'll like the adjustments or index markings, I offer you these photos to look at.









































I can't say enough good things about this sight! The good news is that it can be obtained from Lancaster and a couple of other shops in the USA, although it may take a couple of weeks for it to be shipped from Korea.


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## Greysides (Jun 10, 2009)

Good pictures, and a good idea too.


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## Doctor G (Feb 26, 2011)

Great idea, and thank you for the pictures! I have been wondering what this sight looks like in person. Question: that side screw need to be loosened before adjusting the elevation, right?


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## Zbone (Aug 4, 2012)

Retail price?


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## EBK (Sep 24, 2012)

Pictures are outstanding! Maybe better than the sight


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Doctor G said:


> Great idea, and thank you for the pictures! I have been wondering what this sight looks like in person. Question: that side screw need to be loosened before adjusting the elevation, right?


That is correct. If you loosen it a lot, then hold it in, you can slide the block up or down in large amounts. There is no lock on the windage adjustment, but the detents are very positive, so I doubt it'd ever move on its own.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Zbone said:


> Retail price?


The price I was quoted via email from Lancaster is $199. They didn't say anything about the delivery time, but I had previously emailed Win & Win asking where I can buy one and they recommended contacting Lancaster.


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## DWAA Archer (Oct 14, 2011)

I like the idea of the windage scale on the sight that is useful. But this sight is not for me. You pay your money you take your chance I'll leave it at that


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## Acehero (Nov 2, 2007)

The W&W is an excellent quality sight and I had a lot of good use out of mine before passing it on.


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## toj (Aug 22, 2012)

Good photo's they'll be very useful to people in the market for a new sight.
They're a well built fuctional and great value sight, seen an a good few bows on the line in London 2012.


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## J. Scott (Sep 8, 2012)

As an avid amateur photographer I recognize and appreciate competence when I see it. Those are really nice shots on a number of different levels. Just out of curiosity what lens did you use?


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

J. Scott said:


> As an avid amateur photographer I recognize and appreciate competence when I see it. Those are really nice shots on a number of different levels. Just out of curiosity what lens did you use?


As an avid photographer, you will probably be surprised at the equipment I used. These were taken on a Nikon D50 with an old Sigma 90/2.8 Macro lens. I didn't even break out the tripod, which is something I do for almost everything I shoot, even in the sun. I chose this over my newer camera because I don't have a macro lens for my other camera yet (Canon 60D).

Thank you for the compliments though. I was a photographer for 7 years prior to going back to school for my current work field and I do still take photos once in a while.


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## rei14 (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice pictures!  Enjoy shooting it! I used to own a D50 as well... its a great camera.


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## DIV (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm very interested in this sight. I'm not seeing it on the Lancaster website...Are they planning to add it to their inventory?
The only thing I can see is what the W&W site offers: http://www.win-archery.com/sight


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## Coiner10 (Aug 14, 2012)

Would you recommend this over a Davis the system site?


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

Thanks for the heads up on the sight...............very nice.

I'm using the WW button, and it's very, very nice. I've used a Beiter forever, so it took a lot to change, or evern try it.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

DIV said:


> I'm very interested in this sight. I'm not seeing it on the Lancaster website...Are they planning to add it to their inventory?
> The only thing I can see is what the W&W site offers: http://www.win-archery.com/sight


I believe it's a special order item. I was quoted $199 but had to email Lancaster to get that quote and the item number. Win & Win referred me to Lancaster when I inquired about ordering one directly from them. Archery Torque also appears to carry them, but I can't remember the price they quoted me. Win & Win recommended Lancaster because they order from Win & Win frequently.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Very helpful. Thanks. Looks like a very nice sight.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Coiner10 said:


> Would you recommend this over a Davis the system site?


I've never actually seen a Davis system sight in person. I have a feeling that the Davis is significantly heavier, as the construction appears to be extremely rugged and solid on the Davis. The Win & Win is very, very lightweight. I have a Shibuya Ultima RC (all aluminum) to compare with the Win & Win, and the Win & Win is a tad lighter, probably because of the carbon extension. The Davis appears to be a competitor for the Sure-Loc compound sights, which would explain the seriously bomb-proof looking construction. 

For recurve, I think the Win & Win would probably be more appropriate, since it's very lightweight. If you need to pound nails with the sight and then mount it to the bow and see no difference in settings or operation, the Davis is probably your candidate. I'm not implying that the Win & Win is delicate, but it's not really designed to take the stresses that a compound would deliver, hence the Davis sight's heavy construction. 

Comparing the Shibuya Ultima versus the Win & Win WS-600, I'd have to say that the machining on both is comparable. The fit & finish and smoothness of controls on each is similar. I like how the Shibuya Ultima doesn't need locking knobs and the lead screw is enclosed for protection. I like the fact that the Win & Win doesn't use a lead screw at all, even though the teeth on the rack are exposed. You'd have to be pretty rough on your gear to damage either sight.

If I was going to use the same sight on both a recurve and compound, the Davis would be the way to go, with a penalty of substantially more weight but more durability. For just recurve, I'd go with the Win & Win. How about that? I went with my own recommendation!


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

titanium man said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the sight...............very nice.
> 
> I'm using the WW button, and it's very, very nice. I've used a Beiter forever, so it took a lot to change, or evern try it.


I plan to get the WW button someday, but my Shibuya will have to wear out first!

Nice avatar! Wherever did you get it? :wink:


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## DIV (Apr 12, 2012)

So is it correct that this sight would compare to the Shibuya Dual-Click which also has a single lock down screw whereas the Shibuya Ultima RCX-520 has NO lock down screws (preferred, IMHO)....?


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

DIV said:


> So is it correct that this sight would compare to the Shibuya Dual-Click which also has a single lock down screw whereas the Shibuya Ultima RCX-520 has NO lock down screws (preferred, IMHO)....?


Correct - a single lock down screw on the WS-600, just like the Dual Click. I think that the Win & Win has a slight edge on the Shibuya Dual Click though because the aperture block on the WS-600 is aluminum instead of polycarbonate. The Ultima doesn't have any locking screws, which is pretty nice.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

IMO, a sight that doesn't require the lock-down screw is worth the extra $.


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## titanium man (Mar 5, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> IMO, a sight that doesn't require the lock-down screw is worth the extra $.


Good point. It would be a hard habit to break after many years of using a Sure-Loc. Almost 20 years for me using one..........wow.


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## DIV (Apr 12, 2012)

And what about the aperture block. The Quest-X for example has a thumb screw to quickly remove or install the aperture block...how does the WS-600 work?


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

To move/remove/install the aperture block on the WS-600, you unscrew the locking screw quite a bit, then press inward on it. That causes the elevation adjustment worm drive/adjuster to pivot out of the teeth in the rack. Hold it in, slide it wherever needed. Other than having to unscrew the locking screw, it's nearly the same effort as moving/removing the Shibuya Ultima's aperture block. 

I suppose I could take a photo if it'd help people visualize how it's done...


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## Coiner10 (Aug 14, 2012)

It was great! :smile: Thanks for replying. Seeing how I already have a hammer I think I'll go with the ws600.


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## DIV (Apr 12, 2012)

Hmmmm....I think I'm leaning towards the Shibuya Ultima.
But a photo would be great sowing the removal of the aperture block.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

DIV said:


> Hmmmm....I think I'm leaning towards the Shibuya Ultima.
> But a photo would be great sowing the removal of the aperture block.


You know, if I hadn't got a good deal on a gently-used WS-600 and the Shibuya Ultima had been in my established budget, I'd probably have gone with the Shibuya as well. I had set myself a specific price range, based upon the price of a Shibuya Dual Click standard, but after 3 months of being on backorder, I finally gave up and went with the WS-600 that I currently have. I don't have any regrets, as I'm confident that the WS-600 is comparable to a Dual Click standard. If my self-imposed budget had been $50 higher I likely would have gone with the Shibuya. Afterward, I acquired a used Shibuya Ultima for my daughter, which provides me some great opportunity for comparison. 

I'd put it this way in short: if you have the budget for the Shibuya Ultima, that'd be my first choice. If you're in the budget range of the Shibuya Dual Click standard, I think I'd lean toward the Win & Win WS-600 due to the carbon extension and the aluminum aperture block (instead of polycarbonate parts). 

One other thing I like about my WS-600 - it has detents on the sight mount, so when you put the extension into the sight mount on the bow, you have positive feedback about how far it is inserted. Also, the sight won't accidentally fall out of the sight mount. I'm certain other sights do this as well, but the Shibuya Ultima does not.

I'll get a photo taken today of the removal of the aperture block from my WS-600, possibly a comparison photo of the Ultima.


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## DIV (Apr 12, 2012)

That would be super-helpful....thank you kindly in advance!


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

*Win & Win WS-600 aperture block removal photos*

First, here are some photos of the Win & Win WS-600 aperture block removal (that is also used for bulk elevation adjustment. 

You loosen the locking screw quite a lot, then press inward toward the elevation bar, which causes the elevation adjuster to pivot out of the gear rack. With the elevation adjuster out of the rack (holding in the locking screw with your thumb/finger), you can rapidly adjust the position or completely slide the aperture block off the sight.














The following photos show the mechanism off the sight, which makes it a little more obvious what parts are pivoting when you press the loosened locking screw.














Before anyone asks, yes, the mechanism holding the elevation adjuster into the rack is spring loaded.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

*Shibuya Ultima aperture block removal photos for comparison*

And here are the Shibuya Ultima aperture block removal photos for comparison.

The Shibuya has no locking knobs, only a spring-loaded thumb button that moves the part that contacts the lead screw. When you press on the button, it moves the part out away from the screw. While you hold the button, you can make large elevation adjustments or take the aperture block off completely.















Here are some photos of the aperture block removed from the sight.














Other than the Win & Win WS-600 requiring you to unscrew the thing you press and hold, the motions are nearly identical in scope. Obviously the two sights use different elevation mechanisms entirely, but the concept is the same: move the part that engages the gear out of the gear, hold it out, slide the aperture block up/down or off. I don't particularly like that the Shibuya uses ABS plastic for the part that engages the lead screw, but I suspect it will take a very long time to wear out enough to worry about it.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That Ultima sight is the cat's meow. I have to admit it...


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> That Ultima sight is the cat's meow. I have to admit it...


Now, John, you couldn't possibly be biased by years of trouble-free success, could you? :wink:


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## blaze (Dec 24, 2005)

williamskg6 said:


> I don't particularly like that the Shibuya uses ABS plastic for the part that engages the lead screw, but I suspect it will take a very long time to wear out enough to worry about it.


Sorry I don't want to hijack the thread but just want to point out that the plastic part that you are describing was aluminum at the beginning, mine (2005) has got the aluminum part and I wondered why Shibuya changed to plastic (don't know if this is true but heard that this part is apparently manufactured by Beiter). The old Ultima also got the scale to the other side(outside the bow window).


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

williamskg6 said:


> Now, John, you couldn't possibly be biased by years of trouble-free success, could you? :wink:


Nope. I've enjoyed more than 8 years of trouble-free success from my Sure-Loc's  

But if I were to make a change, it would be the Shibuya Ultima.

John


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## Chinese Tea (Mar 17, 2010)

Could you please clarify the following statement:

"I don't particularly like that the Shibuya uses ABS plastic for the part that engages the lead screw, but I suspect it will take a very long time to wear out enough to worry about it."

Are you referring to the part circled in red or blue? I noticed that between your image and blaze's that the blue part definitely appears to be made out of a different material, but the way I read your statement it sounds like the red part has changed to ABS.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

Chinese Tea said:


> Could you please clarify the following statement:
> 
> "I don't particularly like that the Shibuya uses ABS plastic for the part that engages the lead screw, but I suspect it will take a very long time to wear out enough to worry about it."
> 
> ...


Both the red and the blue parts are made of plastic on the one I have.


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## williamskg6 (Dec 21, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Nope. I've enjoyed more than 8 years of trouble-free success from my Sure-Loc's
> 
> But if I were to make a change, it would be the Shibuya Ultima.
> 
> John


I had a Sure-Loc for my compound (when I shot compound) and it was definitely bomb-proof. The only thing I didn't like was that there was no index mark for the windage knob (just numbers) so you never really knew whether the windage block was in the same place or if it got bumped. I had a Challenger though, so my comments may not apply to higher end Sure-Locs.


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