# Fast bows for Field Shooting



## distributor (Mar 18, 2004)

Can anyone that shoots Field Archery prove that bows faster than 250 FPS can produces a lot higher scores on the Field Round?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Only for those that don't want protractors, rangefinders, and calculators on the course; or, those that shoot on windy courses.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> Only for those that don't want protractors, rangefinders, and calculators on the course; or, those that shoot on windy courses.


CANNOT BE PROVEN! It is up to the SHOOTER to have the FORM, SHOT EXECUTION, and KNOWLEDGE to produce the scores...SPEED is NOT THE ANSWER to automatic higher scores!

Fast misses are still misses, just like slow ones are, haha.

560's have been shot in regular shoots, and NATIONAL COMPETITION (Terry Ragsdale's FIRST EVER 560 at the Nationals) with bows below 230 fps!

550+ scores are shot by LADIES and many men with bows below 240 nowadaze...

It is NOT the speed and it won't automatically give you higher scores...it could in fact result in LOWER scores if the shooter has the bow setup so it is for SPEED only and NOT FOR FORGIVENESS...

field14:tongue::wink:


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> CANNOT BE PROVEN! It is up to the SHOOTER to have the FORM, SHOT EXECUTION, and KNOWLEDGE to produce the scores...SPEED is NOT THE ANSWER to automatic higher scores!
> 
> Fast misses are still misses, just like slow ones are, haha.
> 
> ...


I didn't say it would automatically do anything. Until simple geometric and exponential math problems are proven wrong a faster ARROW would allow more leeway for the MATH errors and/or misjudgements. 

If we were to make perfect inclination judgements and cuts, had perfect sight settings, and made perfect shots it wouldn't matter if the arrow was 50 fps or 500 fps. Lets take Rag's first perfect 560 round. Do you suppose each and every arrow impacted at the intersection of those two little lines in the middle of the "X"? I'm betting that it wasn't a 112 X round. He had great form to allow him to aim at the X, great judgement to cut for the x, and enough SPEED to keep him in the 5 for those X's he missed because of slight angle miscalculations. 

Anyone who sets up for speed only likely has an ego problem to begin with. :wink: Things are getting better from a materials standpoint. I don't think there's any difference in forgiveness between my old ProVantage and my newest ProTec. I do know that the Protec is a heck of a lot faster.


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## Archersteve (Oct 14, 2004)

distributor said:


> Can anyone that shoots Field Archery prove that bows faster than 250 FPS can produces a lot higher scores on the Field Round?


I have now seen a couple of your post regarding this issue, and it is apparent that you have a thing against speed. :sign10:

OK, let's change your question and say, Can you prove that bows that shoot faster than 250 cannot produce a lot higher scores on the field round?:wink:

Don't even start trying to quote all of the "old results" using slow bows! It is just as possible that they could do the same with the faster bows, top shooters are top shooters, period.

let's get real. Overall, the field scores are higher now than they were 10+ years ago. In general, one could claim that was due to speed. Or one could claim it was due to better archers. Or one could claim it was due to better equipment. In truth, it is probably a factor of all of the above.

Speed is not a cure all. Uncontrolled speed just means you miss faster than before. Slow is not a cure either. Slow does not necessary equate to good form, to proper equipment, or to forgiving bows.

But, if you want generalities, ok. The faster a bow is, the harder it is to control. So I don't expect to see a field score of 550 or above with a bow shooting 350 fps. But many of today's 300 fps bows are as forgiving as the 280 or 250 fps bows of just 15 years ago. With that same point in mind, parallel limb bows, with long risers are roughly as forgiving as a longer A2A bow of yesterday (angular moment of inertia). Lower brace height bows are typically less forgiving than higher brace height bows.

Now you have some general rules, but within each rule is an exception. So.....


Can you prove that bows that shoot faster than 250 cannot produce a lot higher scores on the field round?



:tomato:


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Archersteve said:


> I have now seen a couple of your post regarding this issue, and it is apparent that you have a thing against speed. :sign10:
> 
> OK, let's change your question and say, Can you prove that bows that shoot faster than 250 cannot produce a lot higher scores on the field round?:wink:
> 
> ...


NO, I can't, for one...but I can PROVE that a bow shooting more than 280 fps OR over 80 pounds peak weight will NOT BE SHOOTING A LEGAL NFAA SCORE under the CURRENT RULES for NFAA Competition!

So, it is a MOOT POINT when you talk of ANY SCORE being shot with ANY BOW shooting OVER 280 fps! It is also moot to discuss the same issue with bows OVER 80 pounds peak weight.

CANNOT COMPETE with either of 'em, scores are NOT LEGAL nor recognized as such. Regardless of whether they are higher or lower for the particular shooter involved.

field14


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

I will say with conviction that faster bows are inherently able to score higher on a field round in the hands of a competent archer.....

Play on Archers Advantage and see how the apparent dot enlarges with speed...... Yards accross the dot change as the speed increases for the better..... Example at 280fps the dot is maybe 6 yards deep..... At 230 it is 3 yards deep. With a good shot on a target with a 1 yard mismarking the speed could make the difference.

Add to this fact that when the scores in field exploded for the masses it was the advent of the carbon arrow..... What did that arrow bring to the masses attainable speed increases with a less critical setup.....

Have fun if you want to do the math but history and experience have told me controlled speed is what you want!!!


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

DarrinM said:


> I will say with conviction that faster bows are inherently able to score higher on a field round in the hands of a competent archer.....
> 
> Play on Archers Advantage and see how the apparent dot enlarges with speed...... Yards accross the dot change as the speed increases for the better..... Example at 280fps the dot is maybe 6 yards deep..... At 230 it is 3 yards deep. With a good shot on a target with a 1 yard mismarking the speed could make the difference.
> 
> ...


There it is in the nutshell..>THANKS, DARRIN!

CONTROLLED speed is what you want...if YOU can't CONTROL IT, then DON'T SPEED UP...I feel strongly that a shooter should shoot ALL the speed they can CONTROL.....up to 280 fps...but beyond that, if you want to compete in NFAA....you're wasting it...hahahahaha.

I don't think too many FITA shooters are busting the 280 due to their heavier points and the POUNDAGE LIMIT of 60# peak weight maximum.

Good post, Darrin.

field14


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

I believe in using all the speed (up to the limit of the rules) that my set up will allow. But I also think too many people choose a speed instead of tuning the bow for best performance and accuracy. Sometimes a turn of the limb bolt or 10 grains in a point will make all the difference in the world. Don't get married to a speed at the cost of improving your score.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

From the other thread of the same name:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVI 
Yep and if you set your bow up with the expectation of 288 you'll be in for a surprise on a warm day when they pull the chrony out... You best learn to hit your arm on command or carry a chrony arrow and hope they don't pick your arrow for you... 

Oh, the NFAA has this trick covered too....something about, and I will NOT look it up and quote it either....

"All arrows will be the SAME weight, fletch, etc...with allowances for wear and tear. So, if you are carrying a "Chronie arrow" and Believe me, the "judges" KNOW ABOUT THIS STUPID TRICK...you aren't fooling anyone! It had better be the SAME LENGTH, the SAME WEIGHT, and the SAME FLETCH color...with some allowance for wear and tear.

We had a BHFS'er pull this type of stunt at a STATE tournament....he had four "sets" of arrows in his quiver...all fletched the same, etc. Well, he was notorious for pulling "things" ....like lagging back behind between targets...and was SEEN cranking his poundages on courses he knew....he "moved his peep site" around between targets, etc.

Well....evidently, he made a "mistake" on a long target and shot an arrow out of the "wrong slot" of his quiver...and it went well away from the "group" of his arrows. That was a "clue" to the others....IMMEDIATE.

So, when the round was done, one of the shooters went to the director, told him of his "suspicions" and filed the protest. The shooter in question was called in (he was close by) and they asked to see this guys arrows...he hesitated, then picked one and handed it to them. They said NO...we want to see the entire quiver of arrows....that got him REAL nervous....So, they weighed ALL of the arrows in the quiver...and found...that each "batch" of four arrows...WEIGHED DIFFERENTLY, by as much as 50 grains!

DQ'd on the spot!

So, don't play games with a special "CHRONNIE ARROW" and don't be for teaching people this....SHOOT BY THE RULES! 280 doesn't mean 288...cuz on that HOT DAY or whatever, the CHRONNIE IN USE is the ONLY ONE they will go by...and you just never know when you get a "fast Chronnie"...set the frickin' bow to 280 if you choose...but don't PUSH IT!! 

field14


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

field14 said:


> From the other thread of the same name:
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by JAVI
> ...


That was my point...:wink: Anybody that has been around a while pretty much knows all the tricks... and I been around at least twice...:tongue:

In fact I've been known to post a sign after # 28 that read .... OFFICIAL TURN DOWN AREA


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

JAVI said:


> ...Don't get married to a speed at the cost of improving your score.


Unless its less than 250 fps...:wink:

What is so magical about 250 fps?


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

Bobmuley said:


> Unless its less than 250 fps...:wink:
> 
> What is so magical about 250 fps?


Evidently nothing is magical about 250 fps otherwise all the top men in FITA would be cranking their bows down to 50#.

There is a reason they shoot 59.5# and the reason is arrow speed.


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## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

Bobmuley said:


> Unless its less than 250 fps...:wink:
> 
> What is so magical about 250 fps?


I couldn't tell ya' 

I've shot some really good scores at 198 fps...:wink:


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## wolfman_73 (Mar 7, 2005)

The guy at my local shop said that when he was shooting a lot and winning (hes a card carrying kind a guy ) said he prefered the pin gap at 250. Me thinks im gonna go see if he wants to expand on his technique.


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## Field Shooter (Nov 2, 2005)

*Faster FPS bow*

If a person shooting at 240 FPS was averaging 546 on the Field round
changed to 277 fps with a perfect set up in all aspects such as same
bow arrows spined perfect everthing being equal to the 240 fps bow
Question: How much would his average raise with the 277 FPS bow?
Folks we are talking about being more accrate if this is possible.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Field Shooter said:


> If a person shooting at 240 FPS was averaging 546 on the Field round
> changed to 277 fps with a perfect set up in all aspects such as same
> bow arrows spined perfect everthing being equal to the 240 fps bow
> Question: How much would his average raise with the 277 FPS bow?
> Folks we are talking about being more accrate if this is possible.


Personally, from my perspective and those I competed with that kicked my butt....

When I was shooting really well...I was shooting 218 fps, and for three solid years of field/hunter round shooting....my practice scores were AVERAGING just over 550, and tournament scores were averaging right around the same...some LOWER, but a TON higher.

I shot my highest of 557...and tons above 552-555...with 218 fps...and my competition...they are running about the 215 to 235 range...and AVERAGING well into the 550's. I shot a 554 in a couple of tournaments...and DID NOT WIN...in fact in a particular tournament, I shot a 554 and got 4th place..

And the courses were uphill, downhill, steep, along with the sidehills and poor footing..

So dont' gimme this YOU GOTTA HAVE 250 or more MINIMUM to shoot decent FIELD SCORES...that is absolute BULL HOCKEY and HYPE! The COURSES haven't changed, and the DISTANCES haven't changed...so SINCE (FACT)the scores were shot that HIGH with 215-230 fps, how can any one say YOU NEED A MINIMUM OF 250 fps to INSURE (high risks!) you can shoot 550 now?

Crock of it.....Sure, I agree it cuts the "margin of potential error due to mis-judging distance SOME...but a crap shot is a crap shot...and if the shooter can't HANDLE THE SPEED...then it is a waste.

But PLEASE do NOT tell me that you MUST HAVE 250 or better to shoot 550+ or you CANNOT DO IT...cuz that is PLAIN WRONG, and only HYPE and NOT BACKED by evidence....

Today's bows are indeed different and faster...but that doesn't mean that someone couldn't step out on the field course with a PROVANTAGE and ALUMINUM ARROWS....at 218 fps and still shoot a 550+ field course score!!

field14


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## Field Shooter (Nov 2, 2005)

field14 said:


> Personally, from my perspective and those I competed with that kicked my butt....
> 
> When I was shooting really well...I was shooting 218 fps, and for three solid years of field/hunter round shooting....my practice scores were AVERAGING just over 550, and tournament scores were averaging right around the same...some LOWER, but a TON higher.
> 
> ...


Field 14 go back and reread the question I was asking for the difference in average between 246 FPS and 277 FPS? I personal don't think it will be any increase either give your opinion on this question?


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> ...Crock of it.....Sure, I agree it cuts the "margin of potential error due to mis-judging distance SOME...but a crap shot is a crap shot...and if the shooter can't HANDLE THE SPEED...then it is a waste....
> 
> field14


Tom, it isn't like driving a top fuel dragster where a driver has to react to the shot. The shot happens, once the release is fired there's nothing to "handle". 

What inherent advantage is there to slowness? Just suppose you had a bow that shot 2317s and ACC 3-60s equally well. Without regard to what the speed numbers would be, what would cause us to "loose control" of the ACC more so than the 2317? 

You can either handle the bow or not. The arrow goes right where the dot is...as long as the target is where you think it is. You said this is a thinking man's game. There's some thinking thats better done before you step on the range...what can I do to minimize MY errors...


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

Field Shooter said:


> If a person shooting at 240 FPS was averaging 546 on the Field round
> changed to 277 fps with a perfect set up in all aspects such as same
> bow arrows spined perfect everthing being equal to the 240 fps bow
> Question: How much would his average raise with the 277 FPS bow?
> Folks we are talking about being more accrate if this is possible.


Would depend on ability and what the causes of the misses were.

If the dot is sitting in the white when the arrow is released there will be no increase in score. It won't make up for your shooting.

If you're shooting a steep uphill, don't cut enough, and the target is actually closer (rangefinder and/or tape error) than posted you *might* save a point on that target...."Oops barely caught the line with a shot going off in the X, better take a couple clicks off". It likely wouldn't do much for your average on that course, because now you've learned what to do for that target. It could only initially be the difference between a 4 and a 5. Any arrows missed after that would be the sole fault of the guy driving the bow.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Field Shooter said:


> If a person shooting at 240 FPS was averaging 546 on the Field round
> changed to 277 fps with a perfect set up in all aspects such as same
> bow arrows spined perfect everthing being equal to the 240 fps bow
> Question: How much would his average raise with the 277 FPS bow?
> Folks we are talking about being more accrate if this is possible.


There are so many variables that it is going to depend UPON THE SHOOTER THEMSELVES!

Here's things to consider FIRST before going to HIGHER SPEED to try to "pickup points". This is where the SCIENTIFIC METHOD APPROACH PROVES ITS WORTH>>>>>As in ONE STEP AT A TIME, ONE Variable at a time, and ESTABLISH A "CONTROL"

I would FIRST find out...by gathering DATA with my CURRENT SET UP...and WRITING IT DOWN or taking PICTURES and writing it up:

1. At what DISTANCES am I missing my points? Is it on the LONG ones, mid-distance, short ones?

2. In which DIRECTION am I missing? HIGH and LOW? LEFT& RIGHT (SPEED WON"T HELP YOU HERE FOR SURE!) or on an angle?

3. WHEN in the round am I missing? Early? Middle? Late?

4. Which arrow(s) of the 4 at each target to I tend to be missing? 1st shot? 3rd shot, 4th shot....

5. PAINT YOUR SPECIFIC PICTURE...cuz you MIGHT just find out that the SPEED ISSUE (cutting the up and down distance of miss) might just be BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE.

6. Do I tend to miss lots of my points on SIDEHILL SHOTS? If so...SPEED WON"T HELP HERE!

See....you FIX WHAT IS BROKEN...you don't make RASH STATEMENTS that SPEED increase from 250 to 277 is AUTOMATICALLY the MAGIC ANSWER...When in ALL reality...it is YOU that needs fixing...and the above will help you isolate WHAT it REALLY is..

Once you have gathered the DATA and analyzed it and KNOW YOURSELF and YOUR TENDENCIES...the of course...WRITE DOWN THE CURRENT SETUP TO A 'T"...MEASURE EVERYTHING you can think of and write it down on paper. this allows you to go back to the "CONTROL" setup you got your data from!

Now...if you conclude, based upon the data that SPEED is a potential answer...TEST IT OUT....that becomes the ONE variable you work with in the NEXT experiement...you have the "control" (starting point) already "proven"...

So, you go out, site in, and shoot several rounds with the 277...and do the SAME THING...you do NOT base it ALL on score...you find the 5 steps above's DATA for YOU and how 277 is working....

People make RASH statements that "their friend" is shooting 277 and doing better than he was at 250....welll.......he hopefully was SMART and KNEW that the 277 TIGHTENED UP ALL ASPECTS and not just the vertical ones...and went from there.

Just cuz HE does it, doesn't mean YOU can too...doesn't work that way.

BE SCIENTIFIC, be REASONABLE...and whatever you do...WRITE THAT STARTING POINT SETUP DOWN>..cuz I'm telling you...if you Don't WRITE THE STARTING POINT DOWN, you might never find "it" again...WHEN something goes to heck in a haybasket.

By all means TRY speeding it up...but NOT without sound data for COMPARISION of what the faster speed REALLY DOES....FOR and AGAINST you...cuz there ARE two sides to this coin...you WILL Be giving up something by increasing the speed 27 fps...SOMETHING has gotta give...you need to weigh EVERYTHING involved and compare.

field14


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

Nobody said you NEEDED 250 fps to shoot 550 scores. The question was asked numerous times , would 280 result in higher scores than 250 on field rounds.
YES it will, with clarification.

A bow that is shooting 280 with a proper setup will inherently score better than a slow bow shooting 250. Simple physics. Less wind drift, less cutting for hills, etc. How much better, not much but one point can be worth quite a bit.

It has nothing to do with the "accuracy" of the bow or the nut behind the wheel.

Same goes for FITA. Those guys shoot max poundage for a reason. If you think they're shooting 250fps I suggest you pull your phone out and call a cpl of them.

As I said on another post, some bows shoot 280 properly set up and some don't. Jacking up a slow bow with light arrows isn't going to gain you a thing.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Field Shooter said:


> If a person shooting at 240 FPS was averaging 546 on the Field round
> changed to 277 fps with a perfect set up in all aspects such as same
> bow arrows spined perfect everthing being equal to the 240 fps bow
> Question: How much would his average raise with the 277 FPS bow?
> Folks we are talking about being more accrate if this is possible.


At 240 fps,
if the estimated line of sight yardage for the 80 yard shot (assuming perfectly level), and the actual yardage was 81 yards,
then the 80 yard shot would impact at the bottom of the 5-spot.

At 277 fps,
if the estimated line of sight yardage for the 80 yard shot (assuming perfectly level), and the actual yardage was 81 yards,
then the 80 yard shot would impact right between the edge of the x-ring
and the edge of the 5-spot on the bottom.


So, this would only make a difference
if your average group size at 80 yards is under 1/2-inch.

Since most folks are happy with 8-inch groups at 80 yards,
or maybe 6-inch groups at 80 yards
or maybe 4-inch groups at 80 yards.....

the speed difference between
a 240 fps and a 277 fps bow
is not going to make any difference in your group size,
because your average group size is larger
than the "advantage" a faster bow provides.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Bob_Looney said:


> Nobody said you NEEDED 250 fps to shoot 550 scores. The question was asked numerous times , would 280 result in higher scores than 250 on field rounds.
> YES it will, with clarification.
> 
> A bow that is shooting 280 with a proper setup will inherently score better than a slow bow shooting 250. Simple physics. Less wind drift, less cutting for hills, etc. How much better, not much but one point can be worth quite a bit.
> ...



Bob read my post above...you CANNOT just make blanket statements that FASTER BOWS WILL give you higher scores...just by PHYSICS alone...too many OTHER variables to ELIMINATE before just cranking the bow up...and it is SO INDIVIDUAL.

I you go about the "change" scientifically and CORRECT YOURSELF FIRST...and KNOW the "control" and where you started...and THEN go faster and it shows it then fine.

BUT FASTER WILL NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN HIGHER SCORES...that is a Blanket statement and is NOT VALID.

MIGHT work for some...but probably NOT for the majority due to SHOOTER VARIABLES...and you MUST account for THOSE too.

Your last statement, althoug I agree with it completely...is still a "blanket statement" probably correct, but still a "blanket statement."
field14


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

well nuts, you get to shoot one arrow at 101 yards, down hill with a gusting cross wind and it costs you $1000 to play.

Do you want a bow that shoots 230fps or one that shoots 285??

OH, and the arrow going 285 weighs 390gr.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> Bob read my post above...you CANNOT just make blanket statements that FASTER BOWS WILL give you higher scores...just by PHYSICS alone...too many OTHER variables to ELIMINATE before just cranking the bow up...and it is SO INDIVIDUAL...
> field14


What we're saying is if you remove all those variables the faster arrow scores closer to the center...The scientific process. :wink:


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Bob_Looney said:


> well nuts, you get to shoot one arrow at 101 yards, down hill with a gusting cross wind and it costs you $1000 to play.
> 
> Do you want a bow that shoots 230fps or one that shoots 285??


Pull out the X10 arrow.
Then, I hand my bow over to Dietmar Trillus.

:becky:


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

nuts&bolts said:


> Pull out the X10 arrow.
> Then, I hand my bow over to Dietmar Trillus.
> 
> :becky:


He likes a faster bow.:wink:


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Bobmuley said:


> He likes a faster bow.:wink:


Methinks he is using a different arrow, as well.

It's all good.
I had the distinct honor and pleasure to shoot the same bail
as Dietmar at Vegas 2007. Great fellow to chat with between shots.


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## Bob_Looney (Nov 17, 2003)

Field, I have no variables in my argument. The human factor is taken out. Nothing but how the elements affect the arrow. If you add in the human part it all goes away.
You and I both know a guy can't take a 50# bow shooting 250 and crank it up to 60# trying to get 280 fps and increase his score while he's shaking like he's got hypothermia.

What I'm saying is there are bows on the market that shoot above 280 and have to be cranked down below 60# to be speed legal. (Mathews and Bowtech come to mind) There are also bows that when set at 60# can't get close to 280, they're more like 250.
When given the choice between bows, the faster bow is the better choice.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Bobmuley said:


> What we're saying is if you remove all those variables the faster arrow scores closer to the center...The scientific process. :wink:


Now THIS I agree with for sure! YEPPER!

Unfortunately, too many will interpret this to mean that SPEED IS A GUARANTEE TO PRODUCE HIGHER SCORES ON A FIELD COURSE...because the will NOT have the HUMILITY to realize THEY induce SO MANY VARIABLES into the matrix that it isn't even funny anymore!

More marketing HYPE and SALESMANSHIP...with total disregard to the VARIABLES induced by the shooters...from poor drawlength, to improper arrow spine...to improper hand position...and all that other stuff that MAKES A RADICAL DIFFERENCE!

SOME can "handle the speed" and others cannnot....

That is why I agree with Darrin McCutcheon....shoot as fast as you can HANDLE with CONFIDENCE and CONSISTENCY...and now my addition..

BUT you gotta get off your BUTT and get out there and FIND FOR SURE what will work and what won't work....cuz what is good for ME....might be a nightmare for YOU to try..

You can end up having BIGGER misses up and down by increasing your speed either due to POUNDAGE increases or arrow weight..>because it CHANGES AN ASPECT OF THE BOW in RELATION TO YOU and how you HANDLE THE BOW! MORE PHYSICS and VECTORS and FORCE LINES come in HERE....and that TOO affects ACCURACY as well.

Good ole VECTORS.....

field14


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## VA Vince (Aug 30, 2005)

For the average archer, who has slight inconsistant form flaws ( I do ) a faster bow should help the small miss's. I was shooting a pse the past couple of years and shot my first ever field score in the low 520's. My best was a 531, these were with bows that shot around 250fps. I think the speed should help, but I havent tried a speed bow. It just seems logical that the extra speed would help an archer with flaws. Give a slow or fast bow to a archer that has perfect form and I bet they shoot the same score with either bow.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

I don't know which side of the speed arguement to play. I have 2 bows. One 2005 Shadowcat Elite w/NitrousX and a Sceptre 4 with FuriousX. I have shot personal bests with the Shadowcat at much faster speeds in competition, but after about four months with the Sceptre my practice rounds are producing much higher scores than I was shooting w/the Shadowcat. After Big Sky I will let you know how the Sceptre does with me behind it. BH or LeEarl might be able to help me pull more speed out of the Sceptre but it seems to be shooting really well right now.


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## Jbird (May 21, 2002)

*Speed for Field*

I don't think speed is the be all and end all at the expense of shooting a comfortable bow that holds well has some forgiveness. That being said, I have shot bows that shot from 225 fps to 280 fps and I know that the speed does help field scores as long as the bow is well tuned, fits you, and you are comfortable with it. I have three friends that are Pros and are widely recognized as some of the best field shooters in the country and at different times all of them have told me that if you can get your speed up to around 265-270 fps that life will be a lot easier on a field course. With modern bows available today even short draw low poundage shooters can find a comfortable forgiving bow that will go 260+ with the right arrows. The decision is no longer whether you would like to shoot an accurate bow or a fast bow. You can have your cake and eat it too if find the right bow. The Conquest 4 and Prestige are just two examples. Most of the better bow companies will have a model that gives you what you need.
Jbird


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## SuperX (May 21, 2002)

nuts&bolts said:


> Methinks he is using a different arrow, as well.
> 
> It's all good.
> I had the distinct honor and pleasure to shoot the same bail
> as Dietmar at Vegas 2007. Great fellow to chat with between shots.


Hey Alan, what happened on Sunday in Vegas last year, did you go go-cart racing with OBT or did Dietmar steal your scorecard? :tongue:

Just kidding!


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## Archersteve (Oct 14, 2004)

field14 said:


> NO, I can't, for one...but I can PROVE that a bow shooting more than 280 fps OR over 80 pounds peak weight will NOT BE SHOOTING A LEGAL NFAA SCORE under the CURRENT RULES for NFAA Competition!
> 
> So, it is a MOOT POINT when you talk of ANY SCORE being shot with ANY BOW shooting OVER 280 fps! It is also moot to discuss the same issue with bows OVER 80 pounds peak weight.
> 
> ...


Field,

I failed to mention that shooting over 280 fps or over 80 #'s peak was not legal.

Thanks for the correction. My point still stands, but for those that might have not followed the rules, 280 fps is the limit.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Archersteve said:


> Field,
> 
> I failed to mention that shooting over 280 fps or over 80 #'s peak was not legal.
> 
> Thanks for the correction. My point still stands, but for those that might have not followed the rules, 280 fps is the limit.


This would never really "float" with the leadership NOR the shooters in a million years...but here is a "take" on the "divisions" and classes...

First off: The DIVISIONS oughtta be as follows:

Male
Female
Youth (male & female)
CUB (male & female)

the rest...SHOOT WHAT YOU BRING as long as it isn't BROADHEADS...NO FURTHER BREAKDOWNS NEEDED>..if you shoot 'pins' shoot 'em...but you shoot against the REST OF THE MALES or FEMALES regardless.

NO BREAKDOWNS for "pins", scopes, length of stabilizer, and all that stuff...EVERYTHING IS LEGAL...but the ONLY way to step up, is for a FEMALE to shoot against the MALES...but the MALES cannot STEP DOWN.

Cubs can elect to shoot against YOUTHS, Youths can elect to shoot against Adults...

PRO MALE and PRO FEMALE..SHOOT WHAT YOU BRING.

FLIGHTS...broken down by natural fall of the SCORES...PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THE SCORES are what determine things anyways, and you'd still be in the FLIGHT with people that shot similar SCORES regardless of "equipment".

That ougtta get SOME of you all riled up. But it is FACT..we have classes and divisions coming up more and more and creating more and more so that EVERYONE wins something...it bankrupts the clubs/hosts, and it makes for everyone EXPECTING TO WIN SOMETHING...or they won't play....we've brought this on ourselves, too, by going along with it all these years.

Just some thought from A LOT OF PEOPLE that I've talked to that are fed up with infighting over equipment rules and two gazillion "divisions" and classes for everything....

field14


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Jbird said:


> I don't think speed is the be all and end all at the expense of shooting a comfortable bow that holds well has some forgiveness. That being said, I have shot bows that shot from 225 fps to 280 fps and I know that the speed does help field scores as long as the bow is well tuned, fits you, and you are comfortable with it. I have three friends that are Pros and are widely recognized as some of the best field shooters in the country and at different times all of them have told me that if you can get your speed up to around 265-270 fps that life will be a lot easier on a field course. With modern bows available today even short draw low poundage shooters can find a comfortable forgiving bow that will go 260+ with the right arrows. The decision is no longer whether you would like to shoot an accurate bow or a fast bow. You can have your cake and eat it too if find the right bow. The Conquest 4 and Prestige are just two examples. Most of the better bow companies will have a model that gives you what you need.
> Jbird


Exactly....as long as you aren't trading someting for the speed you should shoot higher scores. It is pretty simple like Darrin said and N & B's example shows.....you have more margin for error with a bow that is faster. I am not talking about setting up a bow that is set up for speed like you would for 3D....I am talking about shooting a bow and arrow combo that is right for your setup. 

I did this very thing this summer....I had my S4 setup with ACC's and CT Whitetails....both arrows shot VERY well for me and I would have NO PROBLEM shooting either combo....however the bow was slower then desired in the 255 range or so. Right before the Hill Billy shoot in July I switched to McKinney II's. Yes that is a better arrow than what I was shooting BUT it wasn't really going to gain me points. However my bow speed jumped to 272 fps. My scores and margin for error jumped WAY UP....and so did my scores. The bow was not "touchy" my arrows although they were very light were not "flighty". THe arrow was built right for my setup and was built correctly (with a heavier point).

I am now shooting that same arrow at around 283 fps however I am shooting 5-6 lbs less then I was at 272 fps...so my arrow is now around the same draw weight arrow weight ratio as when I was shooting 255 fps. That combo is not going to hurt anything....only help.

Those of you that think the extra speed isn't good.....are you still shooting in that 220-250 ragne????? No...why...because it doesn't gain you anything if it did you would still be shooting that slow.:wink:


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## rsw (May 22, 2002)

My answer to this issue from the GAD forum:

It is funny how ancient lore infiltrates modern thought. In the 70s and 80s, 280 fps was an unheard of velocity and it was a fact that a fast bow (230 fps) was likely to be much less forgiving simply because one had to shoot underspined arrows with light points (low FOC) and probably long overdraws.

95% of my 550+ scores were all shot at 215 fps plus or minus a little back in those days (perhaps mostly because I can no longer shoot that well). At the Mid-Atlantic sectional field shoot in 1983, I believe, the first chrono I had ever seen was available at the shoot. My bow shot 223 fps and was, by about 5 fps, the fastest bow shot through the machine that weekend.

The most recent competitive 550 that I have shot was at the NFAA nationals in Yankton shooting 280 fps. That bow shoots incredibly more accurately and consistently than the bows I used to shoot 550s with on a somewhat regular basis years ago. 

Bottom line: today, speed (280 fps) is no more nor less accurate than 225 fps and does offer some distinct advantages to the field shooter. Velocity overcomes wind drift significantly and it cuts down slightly the mis-marked yardage errors as well as the cuts for slope shots. My advice is simply to shoot the fastest legal bow/arrow combination that you can which is absolutely consistent. Modern technology has virtually made reflex/deflex risers, ATA and brace height insignificant with regard to shootability, at least for me. The specs on my most accurate bow would have been anathema to me as little as 5 years ago.

Ignore the speed issue, but concentrate on experimenting to find the right combination for you and the "good practice makes perfect" concept to maximize your field shooting proficiency.


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## DarrinM (May 21, 2002)

rsw said:


> My answer to this issue from the GAD forum:
> 
> It is funny how ancient lore infiltrates modern thought. In the 70s and 80s, 280 fps was an unheard of velocity and it was a fact that a fast bow (230 fps) was likely to be much less forgiving simply because one had to shoot underspined arrows with light points (low FOC) and probably long overdraws.
> 
> ...


AWESOME POST!!!!!!!!!!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Great POST RSW. :clap:


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## Rchr (Jul 3, 2003)

Good post!
My scores have improved and consequently my speed has increased. I don't know if it is directly responsible for it but I do feel better for having both.


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

I know speed is the be all and end all at the expense of shooting a comfortable bow that holds well has some forgiveness.Today that is still number one.


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