# TradTech riser...



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

Well no pictures yet, but we have something new from TradTech on the LAS site! Not available to order yet, but so looking forward to seeing all that they come out with.











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## weaveman (Oct 18, 2015)

No pics!! Your killing us. Still waiting on the new limbs to show up also.

James


----------



## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

What do you think the chances are they look like Big Rock risers? :set1_thinking: :dontknow:


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

I really wanted a Black Magic riser, then they discontinued it. I was not happy LOL! So one riser I'm hoping for is something like that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

If they are wood at that price I'll pick a 21" up. Metal I'll pass.

Grant


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

grantmac said:


> If they are wood at that price I'll pick a 21" up. Metal I'll pass.
> 
> Grant


They are wood Grant....all three...17", 19" & 21"


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

Wood Wood glorious Wood!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Can't wait to see what they come out with.


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

I've owned an Apex and Pinnacle II and loved them both. I can't wait to shoot what they are coming out with this year!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tracker12 (Sep 22, 2003)

The Tridents are wood risers not Chinese cut metal risers. I her the new model wood and carbon limbs a sweet. Going out for demo to a few goys this week. I have my digs a=on a set of them in #40.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

defiantly interested in limbs, like my black max but want to get something new.


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

A mass market wooden 21" ILF riser.... that is new territory.

And 19" wooden ILF which is priced lower than the discontinued Pinnacle II.
Will be interesting... I'm going to assume there's no micarta in it for stiffening at that price.

And all will be revealed on who the manufacturer will be .... most likely Samick?


----------



## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Daniel L said:


> .... And all will be revealed on who the manufacturer will be .... most likely Samick?


Daniel,

Last we heard their new supplier is Win & Win. Don't know for sure. It's all speculation at this point but I'm sure we'll find out soon.


----------



## Leafwalker (Oct 7, 2008)

A 21" wooden ILF riser? *Drool* I may have to pick one up!


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Daniel L said:


> A mass market wooden 21" ILF riser.... that is new territory.
> 
> And 19" wooden ILF which is priced lower than the discontinued Pinnacle II.
> Will be interesting... I'm going to assume there's no micarta in it for stiffening at that price.
> ...


New manufacture is Win&Win


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

ghostgoblin22 said:


> New manufacture is Win&Win


W&W is true for the new limbs.... but I am not so sure W&W is about to start making wooden ILF risers. As far as I know, W&W isn't in that line of business, even though they have China-based manufacturing.

It's all speculation, but my guess is still with Samick. They could readily convert a number of risers into ILF for Lancaster (like the Pinnacle, Galaxy etc), and still sell their classic bolt downs as they do now like the new Sage line.

The wild card is the 21" riser...

Anyway, we will find out soon enough!


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

Actually I am 100% wrong about W&W... they do make beginner wooden risers under the SF line


----------



## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

At those prices I'm also very interested! 

I have a Apex and used to have a Black Magic. It's going to be hard topping those imo. Look forward to see what they come out with!


----------



## badshotdb (Jan 6, 2011)

The Lacaster website riser description shows "crafted from stabilized laminated hardwood" I'm interested, but want to see what they look like before placing my order for one.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 9, 2010)

Archers,

TradTech is excited to have several new limb and riser options ready for the summer 2016. We are not ready to formally announce all the new products but that day is coming very soon. Know that the Trident risers are three similar risers available in the lengths mentioned above; 17", 19" and 21". These risers are "all wood" risers with great new hardware and are going to hit the market at what we think is a very competitive price helping to put bows in archers hands. 

We have four new recurve limbs arriving at nearly the same time. These limbs are exceptional and the result of our recent partnership with Win & Win. 

Watch for formal announcements on the forums and at our website later this spring and summer. 

John Wert
[email protected]
lancasterarchery.com


----------



## gnome (Oct 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Archers,
> 
> TradTech is excited to have several new limb and riser options ready for the summer 2016. We are not ready to formally announce all the new products but that day is coming very soon. Know that the Trident risers are three similar risers available in the lengths mentioned above; 17", 19" and 21". These risers are "all wood" risers with great new hardware and are going to hit the market at what we think is a very competitive price helping to put bows in archers hands.
> 
> ...



Thanks John! 
One more question. Will they also come in left handed?


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't know which maker got the final bid for the risers, but I know that two of the finalists were local... i.e. PA
I have not shot the new TradTech Carbon Extremes being made by Win and Win, but I am sure they are equal to or even better than the Samick made Carbon Extremes.
And that is saying something....


----------



## kdts330 (Aug 14, 2015)

Hopefully, ready by early summer.


----------



## Gnombre (Nov 23, 2014)

Is there going to be any ILF longbow limbs offered?


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

We will have to wait until next month for the limbs. Risers should not be long as well.


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

Daniel L said:


> A mass market wooden 21" ILF riser.... that is new territory.


Maybe new in North American territory... ;-)

Just google "Wild Mountain ILF", and you will find a very nice _*Apex Tradtech-ish*_ family of wooden risers, available lenghts 17" - 19" - *21"*, presented in Europe more than 1 year ago (MSRP = 236EUR).


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

I guess the new Trident's will be similar to these ones:


----------



## Blue bow (Jul 27, 2015)

You guys seen the new W&W black catalogue for 2016? 21" ILF traditional. https://issuu.com/winwinblack/docs/wwb-catalog-2016?e=15829453%2F30000297


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

Blue bow said:


> You guys seen the new W&W black catalogue for 2016? 21" ILF traditional. https://issuu.com/winwinblack/docs/wwb-catalog-2016?e=15829453%2F30000297


To me the Black Elk at page 17 looks really very nice.
Also the compounds line seems interesting.


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

I can tell you all this...I've owned a few sets of TT BM limbs and if these W&W RCX100's I just got in are any indication of whats coming?...(and I know they are)...

Y'all are in for a real treat!


----------



## twigzz88 (Jul 17, 2006)

i need to stay out of this thread! i planned on waiting for these until a dryad popped up. i dont think the old ball n chain would a third to the collection just yet!


----------



## TwentySix (Feb 25, 2011)

I like that Black Elk, too. Looks like a refined SF Axiom.


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

Me likey, me Can't wait much longer john wert lol, I got hog bowhunts coming up



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## k222 (Jan 16, 2015)

21",rh-only only, flat shelf. If you line up the silhouettes of Black Elk and Axiom+L, would it look the same minus a couple of holes?


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

k222 said:


> 21",rh-only only, flat shelf. If you line up the silhouettes of Black Elk and Axiom+L, would it look the same minus a couple of holes?


I hope the price will be similar, minus a couple of USD/EUR... :wink:


----------



## Cwilder (Jun 4, 2006)

They posted the photos


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

They look identical to the ones above 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Risers are an active link in LAS web site....
Cheap too.


----------



## Christopher1022 (Mar 2, 2015)

So this is it? I guess we are not going to see another phenolic or carbon or hybrid riser to replace the black magic? Is anyone else mass producing a phenolic 17" riser?


----------



## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

They look nice, especially for the price. It's going to be tough to beat one of those risers and a modest set of limbs for people starting out.


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

I wish they'd put an I-beam of something stiffer in there like G10 but ultimately those are a darn fine looking riser for the price.

Grant


----------



## Gee's (May 2, 2013)

Wow! Those risers look awesome!


----------



## weaveman (Oct 18, 2015)

Nice risers, but I didn't see any color options for them.


----------



## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

grantmac said:


> I wish they'd put an I-beam of something stiffer in there like G10 but ultimately those are a darn fine looking riser for the price.
> 
> Grant


I doubt the I-Beam would add much stiffness, Grant. There's a lot of laminates in those things.


----------



## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

I'm not really a huge wood ILF riser fan but those are very nice looking at a very attractive price. 

Combine that wit TradTech's stellar customer service and it looks like yet another winner. Something tells me they won't be able to make them fast enough. 

KPC


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

I'll clue you folks in on a little sump'in, sump'in here as see...

On my recent journey of finally delving into owning my first Bear Kodiak TD?...as fate would have it?....I wound up with two of them in as many weeks...one was an older (and as it seems highly desirable) '84 Green Stripe while the second TD was a new model 2015 Red Stripe TD.

Now y'all know me...I get all O.C.D. with this stuff and in the process?...I started looking for "The Differences" between these two risers as I tried to figure out why some of the old dogs favored the older Green Stripe risers so I started at the scales...











where I noticed that the older Green Stripe "B" riser suspiciously weighed a couple/few ounces more than the newer Red Stripe "B" riser and I tried to analyze why and in my observations noted that...

While Bear Archery claims the newer Red Stripe versions are a throw-back/bring-back of Papa Bears "Futurewood"?...I personally feel it's close but no cigar and the reason why is...

The newer (proclaimed "futurewood") risers are made of solid chunks of black maple (or bubinga and what have you) where the only thing "Futurewood" about them is the process of stabilizing the solid black maple wood by pressurized injection of thinned resin...and what's NOT "Futurewood" about these newer risers is that they are solid chunks of wood and NOT....

"Vertical Laminated Strips of Hardwood"

as can be seen on this old, heavier Green Stripe riser of mine by looking at the strips of laminated hardwood just above the TD hardware here... 










and how that plays out visually here where you can see the results of the laminations on the Green Stripe but not on the Black Maple Red Stripe as that's solid wood...











And I bring this to your attention because?....

That's what you're getting with these....

"Laminated Hardwood Trident Risers"

and my old Green Stripe?...feels like I could chop down a telephone pole with it...it's that dense and solid feeling...where I suspect you would be getting much the same with these new Trident risers.

JMHO...FWIW....and L8R, Bill.


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Was hoping for some more black magic style. But for the price they look good.

Now bring on the limbs


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

I desperately wanted a Black Magic type riser. I kick myself for not buying one when I had the chance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

Strictly speaking on aesthetics, I like the color shown on the 19" and 21" risers. The 17" color is just blah.I was wanting to go back to a 17" riser but it's looking like another 19" riser is what I'll be doing. Wish there were color options.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> I doubt the I-Beam would add much stiffness, Grant. There's a lot of laminates in those things.


Many laminations sure, but all just maple. I'm sure they will be a totally acceptable riser.


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm sure they function just fine... but the looks just don't do it for me. I think I'll have to find a Pinnacle II sometime!


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

lscotti said:


> I guess the new Trident's will be similar to these ones:
> View attachment 4161825
> 
> View attachment 4161881


Well done ... you were right!! (At least going by the looks of the posted pics on Lancasters!)


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

TREESTANDSNYPER said:


> I desperately wanted a Black Magic type riser. I kick myself for not buying one when I had the chance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah, i was close to grabbing a used one here a few times but never pulled the trigger.


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

I really wanted to get another 17". I loved my Apex. That color on the new 17" Trident though...I'm just not digging it. Obviously designed straight up dull appearance for bow hunters. That or the picture on LAS is just a horrible one not showing the grain detail well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Trimf (May 15, 2015)

them's some ugly risers.

John.


----------



## flytru (Apr 8, 2016)

Wow I should have hung on to my BlackMagic longer as it seems still plenty interest exists here !!!
I wonder if those all wood risers will have enough weight and be stable. They do look nice !!


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

lscotti said:


> I guess the new Trident's will be similar to these ones:
> View attachment 4161825
> 
> View attachment 4161881


I think they look great...don't much care for the Red/Gray model but the Black/Brown/Gray long one on the far left of the top pic looks downright hot too me!...it also looks like it has a grip profile similar too my '84 Green Stripe "B" TD.

LAS just brought you folks a 21" wood ILF and at a very affordable price point...what's not to like?


----------



## bwd (Dec 6, 2013)

The solid gray one looks fine, the others...not so much, imo.


----------



## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm in the thumbs down camp on the appearance of those risers. My thought was,"they went from the pinnacle and black magic to this!?!"


----------



## dkhusky (Mar 8, 2016)

Wonder if the limbs are going to be anything crazy if the risers are this busy

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

Halfcawkt said:


> I'm in the thumbs down camp on the appearance of those risers. My thought was,"they went from the pinnacle and black magic to this!?!"


Have to agree, only one I think looks OK is the all black one, still no black magic


----------



## Stub (Aug 13, 2013)

I like the gray one. I think all set up would look like a nice hunting rig. However, I don't really care for the other colors. 

I'd be interested in an unstained version I could do myself. Would be fun!


----------



## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

It would look way more nice if they stained different tones of brown. It would fit the "Trad" in trad tech better, anyhow.


----------



## Armed_AL (Jun 8, 2012)

I personally really like the look of the grey 17".


----------



## ghostgoblin22 (May 3, 2013)

I like the grey one also, for the price I'm not complaining


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

Armed_AL said:


> I personally really like the look of the grey 17".


It's growing on me too. It's nowhere near as good looking as my old Apex was. Why did I sell that again???


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

TREESTANDSNYPER said:


> It's growing on me too. It's nowhere near as good looking as my old Apex was. Why did I sell that again???


I am afraid it was a very bad decision selling the Apex.
The phenolic stripe really makes the difference.


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> I doubt the I-Beam would add much stiffness, Grant. There's a lot of laminates in those things.


The phenolic stripe *add stiffness* to the riser.
You can notice the difference, specially with hi-performance limbs and light arrows, trust me...


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

weaveman said:


> Nice risers, but I didn't see any color options for them.


This "new" TT Trident riser to me looks like rebranding of the "Wild Mountain" ILF riser, a recent but not new European product available in 5 colors: black, brown, green, red, white. See link:
http://www.bigarchery.com/en/prodotti-en/?cat0=308&cat1=285&cat2=BC6&idProdotto=55F979

It appears that the previous TT Apex was clearly the "baseline" to design this new line of wood laminated risers.

Several months ago I had the opportunity to test both Apex and Pinnacle II riser, as well as Wild Mountain 17" and 19".

My opinion is that almost no archer would be dissatisfied by the ergonomy, the look and the refinement of this new line of risers.
However, for some specific set-up (well, not exactly "traditional") somebody would find more performing the previous risers with phenolic insert(s).


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

lscotti said:


> I am afraid it was a very bad decision selling the Apex.
> The phenolic stripe really makes the difference.


I do have a Pinnacle II so I'm still ok.


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

TREESTANDSNYPER said:


> I do have a Pinnacle II so I'm still ok.


Beautiful bow! :thumbs_up
Just 2 words of suggestion: KEEP IT! :wink:

I wish they could produce one day a "Pinnacle III", keeping the phenolic I-beam and a bit improved/ redesigned in the pockets area...
Unfortunately the Pinnacle II has no pockects and in my opinion the lateral and frotal view of the bow it's a bit weird.
I believe more mass in this area would be also beneficial for the overall balance of the bow.


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

It will be interesting to see if they make it to the Baltimore shoot in a couple of weeks.
John Wert is getting married that week so I am curious to see if LAS sends someone else to the shoot with the new TradTech line. They have two other guys that also really know the trad side.

I am not a wood riser guy. I had a Pinnacle and left for metal risers. I like the grips better. Maybe I will go back once I get to shoot one of the new wooden risers.
That being said I am still considering a Covert Hunter as well. I just like shooting bows.......


----------



## Gnombre (Nov 23, 2014)

I'm the type of guy who likes to purchase traditional archery gear that is made in America when ever possible. Something tells me that this group of newly introduced risers does not fit that criteria. I once purchased a acoustic guitar that was at a great price point and appeared to have everything a guitar player would ever want. After a few months in my arid climate the instrument started to check/crack in the back and front. After numerous replacement guitars of the same type, I finally just gave up and chalked it up to a lesson learned. I'm telling this story because I feel it is important to realize that not all overseas (China) manufacturers of wood products take into consideration the various climate conditions here in the United States. I for one will let others take the initial plunge on these risers first before I would ever consider purchasing them. But more than like will pay a little more to purchase a riser "Made In America" and support our domestic manufactures first.


----------



## Jim Casto Jr (Aug 20, 2002)

Oh my. I can't wait for the fallout. lol lol


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Jim Casto Jr said:


> Oh my. I can't wait for the fallout. lol lol


I Can! Dear Lord! LOL!

But it's certainly making for an interesting study in...

*"MARKET MANIPULATION"*

LOL!

I'm finding it interesting that Iscotti is claiming such a noticeable difference with the phenolic strip...reason why?.....my 29 year old Ruger M77 30.06 has a laminated stock that has no phenolic strip and even after nearly 3 decades of ownership?....at 100yds...










it still prints groups like this on the first 3 shots...










and that's on a firearm with a Chamber Pressure of 60,000psi...with no phenolic strip...yet Iscotti is inferring we'll see and feel some sort of difference on a riser using what?...40#-60# limbs?...really? 

C'mon man! LOL!


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

JINKSTER said:


> I'm finding it interesting that Iscotti is claiming such a noticeable difference with the phenolic strip...reason why?


To be honest, I have written something a bit different, let's recap my opinion, to whom it may interest... 

Some archers (including myself), with some set-ups (hi-performance carbon-foam limbs + ultralight arrows), could notice a different (better) reaction and an higher performance using a wooden riser with phenolic strip.
On the other hand, using wooden limbs or carbon/wood limbs and average-weighted arrows, I have found no remarkable difference between Apex/Pinnacle and full-laminated wood risers.


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

Last conversation I had with John Wert...
Finalists for making the risers were both PA. 
I understand guys pushing for US manufacturers, but you have to go with who is able, available, and affordable.


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

lscotti said:


> To be honest, I have written something a bit different, let's recap my opinion, to whom it may interest...
> 
> Some archers (including myself), with some set-ups (hi-performance carbon-foam limbs + ultralight arrows), could notice a different (better) reaction and an higher performance using a wooden riser with phenolic strip.
> On the other hand, using wooden limbs or carbon/wood limbs and average-weighted arrows, I have found no remarkable difference between Apex/Pinnacle and full-laminated wood risers.


Iscotti...my apologies if you feel I spun your commentary into something other than what you intended to say but as long as were seeking "To be honest"?....

It seems to me you're putting an awful lot of effort into pretty much trashing LAS's latest offerings...it also seems to me you're overlooking a few key drivers here of these latest offerings...for instance...

1. From what I understand?...LAS/TT kind of got backed into a corner and inadvertently hung out to dry by some untimely and unfortunate unforeseen circumstances that evolved at their historical supplier for Tradtechs product line where the Trident series of risers then became a solid and very viable replacement option at a real friendly price point which represented a savings they could pass onto their customers and speaking of pricing and consumers?...

2. I don't believe the Trident series of risers is aimed at their Pro Level Customer Base who would use such things as expensive set-ups including (hi-performance carbon-foam limbs + ultralight arrows) as they still have the Titan Series risers for that however I do believe the targeted audience are those who prefer the lithe weight and feel of a wood riser and are looking for an affordable option that won't leave them dry where matters of durability and reliability are concerned.

3. If anything?...I think they kicked it up a notch in the durability and reliability department because...

*"The Tridents ARE Devoid Of A Phenolic Strip"* 

which means they are also devoid of the additional glue/lamination joints that the addition of a phenolic strip requires which in the lower price point, mass produced offerings?....aren't always of the same quality of build or processing one might expect of a multi-piece laminated risers that are further up the pricing pole and hence?...could invite catastrophic riser failure...so here?...I feel that a solid laminated riser would be a much safer bet were matters of both durability and liability are concerned as I myself am not sure I'd even want a wood laminated riser of multi-piece construction that's being offered at a $279 price point...to me?...that would be questionable.

4. Thanks too LAS?....For the first time that I'm aware of?...The stateside archery community will for the first time soon have access to a 21" wood laminated ILF riser backed by the world class customer service of John Wert through a stateside based distributor...LAS. 

Again?....sorry if I spun your commentary out of context but what would a newly released line of risers be without some intelligent minded debate?


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

From an engineering standpoint phenolic isn't actually very stiff compared to most hardwoods, just heavy. Additionally running it horizontally in the riser offers the least possible increase in stiffness.

Now a G10 I-beam (that is to say front to rear) would most certainly increase stiffness. But I don't see the market this is aimed at really needing the stiffness or wanting the cost increase. 

If ultralight arrows are your game then a 21" wooden riser makes zero sense.

Grant


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

If TT offer some basic / muted color options, I think they will sell much better. Riser shape is fine - it's the somewhat garish aesthetic which is polarising.

A number of folks have indicated a liking for the basic grey. A grey and/or a brown (like the Pinnacle II / Apex) are safe bets that appeal to most folks. Boring but it sells.

Let's see what happens


----------



## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Daniel L said:


> If TT offer some basic / muted color options, I think they will sell much better. Riser shape is fine - it's the somewhat garish aesthetic which is polarising.
> 
> A number of folks have indicated a liking for the basic grey. A grey and/or a brown (like the Pinnacle II / Apex) are safe bets that appeal to most folks. Boring but it sells.
> 
> Let's see what happens


Daniel...I'm hoping we'll see a "Color Options" box appear just under the "Hand" box...I personally don't much care for the red/gray myself and the all gray is clean and conservative but I also like the the other options...that white would be killer for those who hunt in snowy regions and the green and the black/brown options seem pretty much pre-camoued to me...I think they're hot looking!


----------



## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

As I stated before, I'm not a huge fan of any wood ILF risers for a number of reasons, but of the ones I do like, they are almost always the ones that are "understated" in terms of wood combinations and colors. That's just me. Others are different. The Gray version in JINKS' picture would suit me just fine. I find it to be a very attractive riser.

What I get a kick out of is what seems to be the duality when it comes to some people's complai<script id="gpt-impl-0.7178085249476696" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_85.js"></script>nts. First of all, people complain whenever something is on backorder at TT. Then people complain that that certain products are made overseas. 

Apparently, many people don't realize that once a product shows up in the Lancaster catalog and on their website, the demands for that product and on the retailer are unlike anything any custom bowyer here in the states is either used to, or able to handle. A huge supplier like LAS (or Cabelas, or Bass Pro or....) has to know that the people making their products are going to be able to scale accordingly. 

This whole *"maybe he's having some family issues,"* or *"maybe he's out chasin' critters"* or *"he's an artist and you just can't rush art"* crap doesn't fly when you are selling more risers in a week than the stateside guy is able to make in a month, a year, or more. 

When a guy has a riser or a limb that fails, LAS usually is able to say *"no problem, send it back and we will ship you out a new one today." * 

The *"send it back and I will take a look at it, and if I find that it was my fault, I'll either try to fix it or I'll build you a new one when I get a chance"* is just not an option. 

Simply put, who here in the US, even if they were willing to dedicate their entire production to LAS, could not only keep up with their demand, but keep up with any warranty work that will be involved? They are two different business models, requiring two distinctly different manufacturing and service models. There is room and a need for both.

KPC


----------



## TMax27 (Nov 7, 2006)

grantmac said:


> From an engineering standpoint phenolic isn't actually very stiff compared to most hardwoods, just heavy. Additionally running it horizontally in the riser offers the least possible increase in stiffness.
> 
> Now a G10 I-beam (that is to say front to rear) would most certainly increase stiffness. But I don't see the market this is aimed at really needing the stiffness or wanting the cost increase.
> 
> ...



Grant, I'm new to the trad side of things so bear with me... What riser/limb combo would provide the most performance if you're chasing the ultralight arrow, high speed game? Short limbs/long riser? Long limbs/short riser?

Thanks for the info!


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

JINKSTER said:


> It seems to me you're putting an awful lot of effort into pretty much trashing LAS's latest offerings...


No, I am putting zero effort, since I am not doing what you say! :teeth:
My evaluations are based on test/ experience Wild Mountain ILF risers (not the Trident offered by LAS) compared with 2 TT wooden-phenolic risers of the previous generation.
I still prefer Apex/ Pinnacle II, however I also like the full laminated available in Europe, my 2nd choice.
By the way, I am the happy owner of TT products, namely a set of BlackMax Long limbs 62" 45#, that I consider an amazing product for the price.
So I am not a direct client of LAS, but I respect them and use some of their products.



JINKSTER said:


> 1. From what I understand?...LAS/TT kind of got backed into a corner and inadvertently hung out to dry by some untimely and unfortunate unforeseen circumstances that evolved at their historical supplier for Tradtechs product line where the Trident series of risers then became a solid and very viable replacement option at a real friendly price point which represented a savings they could pass onto their customers and speaking of pricing and consumers?...


I totally agree



JINKSTER said:


> 2. I don't believe the Trident series of risers is aimed at their Pro Level Customer Base who would use such things as expensive set-ups including (hi-performance carbon-foam limbs + ultralight arrows) as they still have the Titan Series risers for that however I do believe the targeted audience are those who prefer the lithe weight and feel of a wood riser and are looking for an affordable option that won't leave them dry where matters of durability and reliability are concerned.


I totally agree



JINKSTER said:


> 3. If anything?...I think they kicked it up a notch in the durability and reliability department because...
> 
> *"The Tridents ARE Devoid Of A Phenolic Strip"*
> 
> which means they are also devoid of the additional glue/lamination joints that the addition of a phenolic strip requires which in the lower price point, mass produced offerings?....aren't always of the same quality of build or processing one might expect of a multi-piece laminated risers that are further up the pricing pole and hence?...could invite catastrophic riser failure...so here?...I feel that a solid laminated riser would be a much safer bet were matters of both durability and liability are concerned as I myself am not sure I'd even want a wood laminated riser of multi-piece construction that's being offered at a $279 price point...to me?...that would be questionable.


I partially agree... the Trident's price is attractive, but the Pinnacle II (with phenolic) was 279USD as well, if I well remember.
By the way, at the current exchange rate USD/EUR (=1,1264) the Wild Mountain ILF in Europe has MSRP 236EUR = 266USD, and it can be easily found as low as 190-200EUR: lucky me. :wink:



JINKSTER said:


> 4. Thanks too LAS?....For the first time that I'm aware of?...The stateside archery community will for the first time soon have access to a 21" wood laminated ILF riser backed by the world class customer service of John Wert through a stateside based distributor...LAS.


I agree again, finally it seems that in North America is distributed a product, Trident riser, that look very very similar if not the same as another good product, Wild Mountain riser, available in Europe since last year! :shade:


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

grantmac said:


> From an engineering standpoint phenolic isn't actually very stiff compared to most hardwoods, just heavy. Additionally running it horizontally in the riser offers the least possible increase in stiffness.
> 
> Now a G10 I-beam (that is to say front to rear) would most certainly increase stiffness. But I don't see the market this is aimed at really needing the stiffness or wanting the cost increase.


I had no perception of a different stiffness, with or without the phenolic strip in the riser.
Using the same bowstring, without any silencers, and with no external dampers, when I changed with hi-performance carbon/foam limbs and lightest arrows I had the impression that the riser with phenolic strip was more forgiving, the shot was more clean and that I was feeling less vibrations in the hand, compared with the full wooden laminated riser.
Probably the riser with phenolic strip enables to better manage the ultra-high frequencies of those vibrations running along the bow after the shot.
Using wooden-core limbs and average weighted arrows I believe this kind of vibrations are not present.
By the way, the noise made by wooden limbs vs carbon-foam to me is very different...


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

lscotti said:


> Beautiful bow! :thumbs_up
> Just 2 words of suggestion: KEEP IT! :wink:
> 
> I wish they could produce one day a "Pinnacle III", keeping the phenolic I-beam and a bit improved/ redesigned in the pockets area...
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more, in fact I have said those exact statements about the Pinnacle II's pocket/or lack there of. Basically a 19" Apex or Black Magic riser. How killer would that be!!!


----------



## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

TMax27 said:


> Grant, I'm new to the trad side of things so bear with me... What riser/limb combo would provide the most performance if you're chasing the ultralight arrow, high speed game? Short limbs/long riser? Long limbs/short riser?
> 
> Thanks for the info!


Unless you are operating within some very narrow objectives I'd advise you against that mindset. 8-9gpp and full length shafts make a whole lot more sense.

Grant


----------



## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

lscotti said:


> Beautiful bow! :thumbs_up
> Just 2 words of suggestion: KEEP IT! :wink:
> 
> I wish they could produce one day a "Pinnacle III",* keeping the phenolic I-beam* and a bit improved/ redesigned in the pockets area...
> ...


FWIW, to my knowledge, neither the Pinnacle or the Pinnacle II were I-beam construction. They both had multiple phenolic accent strips but neither had an I-beam.

KPC


----------



## Armed_AL (Jun 8, 2012)

Every time I've wanted to order a bow from there it's been backordered. They've lost several sales as a result. I call them backordered archery. That said I think I'm going to order the 17" Trident and just wait for the damn thing. I don't know why they would add an item to the catalogs that is more that a month from being available.


----------



## TREESTANDSNYPER (Jan 17, 2003)

I think they added it so people could see what the new risers were going to look like. People had been asking and waiting. Now at least you can see what they look like and decide if you want one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

So many of their risers were back ordered simply due to demand. The inconsistent supply was frustrating to LAS.
Once the new ones finally arrive, I expect a more consistent supply.


----------



## oldnewby (Oct 13, 2015)

Well, why don't I just put to John Wert, who is in charge of TradTech at Lancaster, the question that so many are wondering about? John, is it feasible for the European manufacturer of the new risers to produce for you a version of these risers that is stained in a simple, tasteful colors for U.S. traditional archers, rather than garish and lurid colors? So that you will know what I am talking about, here are some links to photos showing laminated wood risers that are simple and tasteful. (One of them is the now-discontinued Pinnacle II from TradTech, which was very attractive. Another is the Fagus ILF European ILF wood riser. These are just pictures of what a laminated wood riser can look like when it is stained in a tasteful way. ) Can't the European manufacturer of Tradtech's new risers stain them differently so that they look a little more natural ? Or what about natural unstained wood? Just don't stain the laminations at all. 

http://waterandwoods.net/2008/11/trad-tech-pinnacle-ilf/ 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Griffstueck-ILF-Traditionell-Fagus-Mittelteil-17-Zoll-Handle-/301919968926


----------



## JParanee (Oct 13, 2009)

Guys 

John is on the road heading to a shoot so it might take awhile to respond to any comments 

Thx


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

oldnewby said:


> ...version of these risers that is stained in a simple, tasteful colors for U.S. traditional archers, rather than garish and lurid colors?


The current European colours combination BLACK (a dark shaded gray), BROWN (brown with light gray accents) and GREEN (brown with dark olive green accents), to me look very attractive, and a good choice for a traditional bowhunter, see picture:








Also the RED version is not bad at all, specially if matched with FITA white limbs, with classic red/blue accents, and maybe a red bowstring... making a terrific 3D - competition recurve.








To me also the WHITE colour pattern is good looking, and it could give a nice snow/winter camo recurve bow, that could make happy a US traditional archer. 

I can tell you that none of these colours appear "garish and lurid", when seen in real life! :thumbs_up


----------



## Bill 2311 (Jun 24, 2005)

The new limbs are now also listed, but no info just yet...


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

Prices are up on the last year... I'm sure the reviews will be incoming soon.
Expecting good things!


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

After my anticipation of the should-be risers...
I guess the new line of TradTech ILF limbs will be veeery similar to the following 2 versions:

WILD MOUNTAIN *LIMBS BLACK CARBON*
•	Carbon layer for more speed, with wooden core under Black Fiberglass
•	ILF Hardware- International Limb Fitting for any ILF Riser
•	Traditional Satin Finish on Black Fiberglass
•	Reinforced limb tips which allow for the use of fast flight strings
•	Lengths: Long
•	Draw Weights: 30, 40, 45#









WILD MOUNTAIN *LIMBS CARBON WOOD*
•	Carbon layer for more speed, with wooden core under Clear Fiberglass
•	ILF Hardware- International Limb Fitting for any ILF Riser
•	Traditional Satin Clear Finish on Zebrano wood.
•	Reinforced limb tips which allow for the use of fast flight strings
•	Lengths: Long
•	Draw Weights: 30, 40, 45#


----------



## Daniel L (Nov 23, 2013)

They have already stated the Blackmax 2.0 limbs are made by Win & Win. 

At the current price points, they will almost certainly be made in China, as were the previous Samick-sourced TT limbs. 

The new wooden ILF TT risers appear to be the only product rebranded from the Wild Mountain line.


----------



## lscotti (Jun 16, 2015)

Daniel L said:


> They have already stated the Blackmax 2.0 limbs are made by Win & Win.
> 
> At the current price points, they will almost certainly be made in China, as were the previous Samick-sourced TT limbs.
> 
> The new wooden ILF TT risers appear to be the only product rebranded from the Wild Mountain line.


I would not be surprised at all, sooner or later, to see rebranded Wild Mountain carbon/wooden limbs above, distributed by TradTech or by other companies.


----------

