# Hoyt Excel off the Shelf Furniture Pad Arrow Rest Problems



## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

Hi there Archery Folk

I picked up a Hoyt excel and Tradtech Blackmax limbs a few weeks ago and have been trying to use the furniture pad rest idea that so many people seem to love. I really like the idea of using a furniture pad rest, but have experienced some strange wearing from the outside in on the shelf furniture pad. I found one thread on here where someone had the same problem while trying to shoot their samick sage off the shelf, and the problem was identified as the arrow acting too stiff for whatever reason. I tried a few of the suggestions I found on that thread, such as raising the brace height and raising the nocking point, but have had no success. There was also a suggestion that it may be a form problem, and I have tried tweaking my form and have still had no success in stopping the wear. I would love some help as I am out of ideas. I should also mention I tried the furniture pad rest on my chekmate sabre and encountered the same problem. I shoot gold tip expedition hunter 3555/500 arrows. Here is a picture of the wear:


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## pghrich (Nov 12, 2007)

I really think you need to use a center rest or build out the rest you have. It appears you are not even close to center besides being a little left of center. Try a nap center rest and adjust as needed. Hope this helps. Rich pyle


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## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

The excel has a big shelf and the riser is cut well past center. Is your arrow pointing slightly left of center when nocked and viewed from the nock end?


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## dvsdev (Sep 25, 2014)

I found this thread when I was researching strike plate tuning a few weeks back. In short, I think you need to build out your strike plate. Take note of Rick Barbee's post. He is an archery guru!

Here is the link:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1945247

By the way, codenameduchess, do you go to Pacifica Archery or Golden Gate Park to shoot?


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## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks for all the fast replies! dvsdev, I think I certainly will take the time to build out my strike plate and maybe the shelf as well, and yes I do indeed go to Pacifica Archery and the outdoor range in pacifica. I assume you shoot there as well? I will probably be at the outdoor range in pacifica tomorrow morning.

I am a little skeptical about whether or not building out the strike will solve the problem. I also have been shooting my chekmate sabre using a furniture pad rest while getting the same outside-in wear, and it appears to be centered well enough (the arrow is about one diameter to the left of the string). Here are some pictures:


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

I had been seeing some similar wear on my shelf and strike plate and am currently trying cock-feather-in for a while. I was reading some of the threads/comments on here regarding cock feather in/out and noticed some small consensus toward CFI for off the shelf and CFO for off a rest. Only got to practice for a couple afternoons between hunts. Shot pretty well this way. Maybe something to try? Good luck resolving your issue.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

It would help of we could see a picture of your setup (centershot) like the one below.









Assuming your centershot is correct, your nock height is correct, and your tiller is correct, I'm guessing that the wear you are seeing is from the lower hen feather.

You say you are shooting 35/55 shafts, but you don't say what your draw weight is, what your draw length is, what your arrow length is, or what your tip weight is. All of which can have an effect on the type of wear you are seeing. It could also be something as simple as using high profile feathers with a helical set.

In the meantime, here is a discussion on cock feather orientation that you might find helpful.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2253545

KPC


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

c - 

Based on the picture you provided, IF your arrows appear to be bare shaft tuning correctly, they are slightly stiff. 
(Given the offset from center on that riser, the pad isn't thick enough to push the arrow far enough off center.)

Viper1 out.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

Without knowing all the particulars of your specs (such as poundage, draw length, arrow length, point weight) it would be foolhardy to comment on matters of spine as it relates to tuning but what I can tell you is this...

The riser wall/shelf geometry of your excel and sabre are worlds apart and speaking as a former excel owner/shooter?....there is no way in Gods green earth you're going to get away with furniture pads (as a strike plate) on your excel unless?...it is "Built Out" and away from the riser wall...to give you an idea?...here's what "close" looked like on my excel...and take notice of how far out my plunger is....




























your sabre?...that's another story....but let's write on book at a time.


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## Nekekal (Dec 25, 2012)

,The wear happens to me all the time. I worried about it for a long time. I use the 3555 arrows with a 40 lb bow. The arrows are probably too stiff. But I have them and otherwise am happy with them.

So, for me the easiest fix was to just cut the shelf pad in half. This eliminated the portion where the feathers were hitting and saved wear on both the feather and shelf. I also have rotated the cock feather around to a spot where there is less interference.

Probably not the correct thing to do, but it works for me.


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## GEREP (May 6, 2003)

Nekekal said:


> Probably not the correct thing to do, but it works for me.


When all is said and done, if it works for you, it IS the right thing to do...for you.

KPC


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## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

sorry about the lack of information, and again thanks for all the quick responses! this is my first forum post and I am astounded at how much help I am getting.

my draw length is 29 inches, and my arrows are 30.5. My hoyt excel is a 21 inch with 45 pound blackmax limbs, so i believe it is a little under a 45 pound draw weight. My chekmate sabre is 39 pounds. I am gonna try and build up the shelf on my excel today using velcro, a wood dowel, and a screw with bolt as a strike plate. I will post some pictures when I am through.

If my arrows are too stiff, what is the best way to remedy this?


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

If your shelf area is set the way you like and you have no further desire to tune with that area, you can weaken the existing shaft's dynamic (in flight) spine by increasing the point weight. 

If this is unsuccessful, then you must procure shafts with a weaker spine than the ones you are currently using (the proper shoe size for your bow, so to speak). Then you can work with their length and point weight to tune their flight. 

You can only tune so far with a given shaft before it becomes necessary to move to a different one in order to catch a closer, baseline mating of the shaft and bow parameters.

Good luck.


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## JINKSTER (Mar 19, 2011)

codenameduchess said:


> If my arrows are too stiff, what is the best way to remedy this?


The best way?....go with .600 spine shafts....(and that's arguable because)...the most reasonable and economical way?...would be to simply increase point weight.

I have a 43# Black Widow and a 44# Herters Recurve...and both of these bows love my 30" long GT3555 tipped with 175gr points....then again?...I'm only drawing 27 1/2"s...in comparison?...you're drawing 1 1/2"s more DL and your shafts are stock length at 30.5"s....so while your 39# sabre might like the 3555's w/ 175gr points?...you may want to go with 145gr points for your excel.


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## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

Ok guys

here is the shelf i put together today. i used doubled sided tape to mound a 3/8ths wooden dowel with a flattened bottom to the shelf and covered it with a patch of velcro. im using a bolt with some velcro on the head as a strike plate, and i am gonna stop by the archery store to pick up some heavier points before i go to the range.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

Try that but I like to start with the right side of the arrow touching the left side of the string, no daylight showing as in your picture. But give it a try anyway.


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## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

I shot my excel over the last 2 days with heavier points on my arrows and the cock feather in. The wear on the rest has moved over to where the arrow rests before shot. I am a lot happier with this wear, as its over a much smaller area. Would lower profile fletchings help reduce the wear?


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

codenameduchess said:


> I shot my excel over the last 2 days with heavier points on my arrows and the cock feather in. The wear on the rest has moved over to where the arrow rests before shot. I am a lot happier with this wear, as its over a much smaller area. Would lower profile fletchings help reduce the wear?
> 
> View attachment 2075495


Hey 
codenameduchess,

I seem to be at a similar place same place. Shot a lot today and noticed some slight mark on the inside of riser now instead of on strike plate and outer edge of shelf. Removed the one arrow from my quiver that had 5" shield cut feather, and ordered some 4" parabolics to start using instead of the 4" shield cuts. Are you shooting off the shelf or off a rest?

Steve


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## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

I am shooting off a built up shelf. I am not sure of the dimensions of my fletchings (my archery shop set them up for me), but they are parabolic. I am gonna try and get some lower profile fletchings sometime this week and will post my results.


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

I will do the same. My top nock point is only 1/2" above shelf level (that's where the the bareshafts tuned) which is low, so I'm not surprised I see some shelf contact.


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## pghrich (Nov 12, 2007)

unless you are really stuck on shooting off the shelf i would recommend trying a nap centerrest [even the plastic cheap one], gives you lots more tuning and the bow was kinda designed for a rest. rich pyle


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

+1 rich.


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

+2. The more things you put on a rest-plunger designed bow to make it work like an off the shelf shooter the greater the potential for error. Furniture pads, velcro, and the like weren't designed for use on a bow. Lancaster has plungers for $12 and rests for as little as $5. For under 20 you can get that bow set up correctly.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Yup, get it set up correctly - then shoot it! The equipment is a very small part of accuracy with a trad bow.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys -

The DIY thing is really great sometimes, this ain't one of those times. 
Unless you have to compete in a class that requires shooting off a (modified) shelf, just use a rest and be done with it. 

Glad some folks are getting the idea.

Viper1 out.


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## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

I will seriously consider using a rest. However I believe that I still have a problem, as I mentioned earlier my chekmate sabre is also experiencing faster than normal wear. I started shooting with it about 2 months ago and the rug rest and strike plate were significantly worn by the end of the first month. I kept shooting with it until a few weeks ago when I got my excel and tried to use furniture pads with both bows, and the pads wore out after about an hour of shooting. I shot my excel for about an hour today and the rest wore down to the wooden dowel. I have a strip of velcro on the shelf of my sabre and I am going to shoot with tomorrow, and I expect that it will wear down as well. Seeing as the wear appears on both bows, is seems reasonable to conclude my arrows are the source of the excessive wear. Someone at the archery store suggested today that it was the velcro and that using a different type of material would help. I am skeptical of this, as the first rest on my chekmate was not velcro. Any thoughts on this?


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

Could your nocking point be too low?


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

codenameduchess said:


> I am shooting off a built up shelf. I am not sure of the dimensions of my fletchings (my archery shop set them up for me), but they are parabolic. I am gonna try and get some lower profile fletchings sometime this week and will post my results.


I switched from 4" sheild cut, cock feather in, to 4" parabolic cock feather in, and am not noticing any new marks on shelf, strike plate or riser. I'm sure the couple marks on the inside of my riser/sight window I noticed after going to shooting CFI came from the one arrow that was fletched w/ 5" sheild cut. My bow is made to be shot off the shelf though, so maybe we are not apples to oranges here.


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## codenameduchess (Oct 29, 2014)

Congratulations zonic. I'm glad to hear you were able to solve the wear. Unfortunately I believe I am running out of options. I've tried to get some help from my local archery shop, and they are stumped. The feathers I have on are the smallest parabolics they carry, and I have tried practically every feather orientation there is and am still experiencing wear down to the wooden dowel in a day. I bought a nap center rest and will be using that for the time being, however I am still going to see if I can figure out how to make this bow shoot off the shelf. It seems like plenty of people have been able to achieve this without any trouble using similar methods on hoyt excel risers, so I am sure there is a solution I haven't tried.


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## zonic (Aug 12, 2013)

From what I understand, shooting off a rest - better CFO. But what about your nock point? Do you have one above AND below the arrow nock? A nock point below the arrow nock can eliminate porpoising - and perhaps eliminate the downward force of the fletched end of the arrow as it leaves the bow. Are you sure nock point(s) is not too low? Do bareshafts group with fletched arrows?

Good luck getting it figured out.

Steve


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