# Change in setup.. what to do?



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

buckshot087 said:


> Yesterday I finally bought a set of modules for my bow. I went from a 27 1/4" draw, to 26 1/8". It feels and looks right. However, now, I can't seem to hold the bow steady AT ALL. This thing is all over the place, and is DROPPING LOW.....BAD! I figured that having a shorter draw, it wouldn't drop low nearly as bad, and figured that I'd need MORE weight on the front stabilizer because id be pulling harder on the wall... but I took a weight off the front and it actually got a little better. Is this normal? What would help me? Could it be stabilizer setup, or draw length needs to be adjusted out more, or peep sight height? Or do I need to just get used to it? The reason Im asking this is because the bow is doing the complete opposite of what I expected it to do when I shorten the draw.


Can't help you without a head to toe photo, with the arrow dead level
and you at full draw.


----------



## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

I have a few pictures on saved on my computer from earlier today. One is a head to toe picture. the arrow isn't perfectly level but its close and its all I've got tonight. I also have an overhead picture but it won't let me upload them on here or to a private message.


----------



## subconsciously (Aug 22, 2009)

What may seem to look like the right draw length may not be the right draw length. changing draw length in as little as 1/8" increments can make a world of difference in steaddiness and shot execution. I find exactly where I need to be.......put it on a draw board and take a measurment. Everyone is different. Me - I'm 30.75 inches.


----------



## SpotShy (Mar 14, 2005)

Like N&B said it would be a lot easier to help with a photo. One thing that comes to mind is the "rear end". When you changed the "front end" (draw length) did you modify the "rear end" (from string to anchor point)? By shortening 1 1/8 inches it had to effect your facial point ancher and the position of the draw elbow which in turn will effect how you engage the back muscles. Are you feeling like you are using a lot of your draw shoulder. If so you could lengthen the d-loop and see if that helps. Get a picture posted and I bet we can get you on the right trail.


----------



## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

*Pictures*

I know my draw length might not be perfect. But what Im saying is that before, it felt long. So this may not be perfect, but it should be BETTER.


----------



## Flinger69 (Feb 8, 2012)

Personally id like to hear about what Coaches and Bow mechanice do to seady the sight picture, Ive heard it both ways, add forward weight and add rear weigh?
How much forward rock of the bow after the shot is recomended if any?
I'll be waiting with anticipation!

Carl


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

buckshot087 said:


> I know my draw length might not be perfect. But what Im saying is that before, it felt long. So this may not be perfect, but it should be BETTER.


1) posture problem...you are still leaning sideways AWAY from the target
....creases on your t-shirt tell the entire story
....lower body is just fine
....gotta PUSH your upper body FORWARDS towards the target
....get your shoulders to move FORWARDS say 2-3 inches
....get your head/shoulders/entire upper body moved FORWARDS 2-3 inches

....if you put on a shirt with buttons, 
....get the buttons vertical and get the buttons moved DIRECTLY above the button on your jeans


END of arrow shaft is still landing on your face,
BEHIND your eyeball.

When the bow hand is TOO FAR away from your face,
you are going to DROP OUT the bottom of the spot,
cuz your bow arm is just plain no LONG enough, to handle the DL setting on the bow.

So,
as you DROP your bow arm lower and lower,
the distance from your face to the grip increases.

So,
try another DL module,
another 1/2-inch shorter.


In the mean time,
if you put an arrow on the ground,
pointed at the target,
and
if you line up the tips of your shoes on the arrow on the ground (neutral foot position),
then,
align your ankles,
align your knees,
align your hips,
align your waist,
align your shoulders
EVERYTHING parallel to the arrow on the ground,
you will INCREASE the distance from your face to the bow grip slightly,
and this will help some.


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

Flinger69 said:


> Personally id like to hear about what Coaches and Bow mechanice do to seady the sight picture, Ive heard it both ways, add forward weight and add rear weigh?
> How much forward rock of the bow after the shot is recomended if any?
> I'll be waiting with anticipation!
> 
> Carl


ADD twists to the bowstring,
to slow down the sight pin float.

Also,
try untwisting the buss cable to increase ATA slightly,
and
this will also shorten the bow DL a skosh.

How much pin float are you seeing?


----------



## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

I know that I lean back, I always have no matter what bow or draw length. Maybe because I started off shooting a bow that was too long and got used to it. Now when I force myself to lean forward, it feels really unstable and uncomfortable. I don't know whether I should make myself stand straight and try to get used to it, or lean back slightly like I always have and be comfortable.

Also, this is the shortest draw length module I can get for my bow. It is the 25 1/2" module, that measures around 26 1/8". I feel like its almost too short because I have to lean my head into the string just a little. I also can't hold steady at all. When I put the next size module on (1/2" longer), it feels a little more comfortable and I can hold steadier, even though it makes the arrow shaft sit a little behind my eye. With the shortest module, (the one in the pictures), the end of the shaft is really close to being in line with my eye. I have a close up of my face that Ill post.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm no expert, for sure, but it looks to me like your draw is just a little too *short.*
Your release elbow looks high to me... but just a tad. A quarter inch longer might do it.
You might try playing around with your string loop length to get that elbow down.

All the weight on your back foot, leaning like that... bad habit and it needs to be broken if you want to reach your full potential.


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

My DL is close to yours and I know how hard it is to get a bow that fits. Keep at it, it's worth the effort.

A large change in DL won't feel comfortable at first. So don't go by that. Base your DL adjustments on alignment and sight picture, not on comfort. Comfort usually results from repetition. 

You mentioned leaning your head a little. This is one of the many things that can push your pin down. You might experiment with a slightly higher anchor. This will also lower your elbow a bit.

The good news is that you seem to be pretty close. As N&B posted, experiment with very small changes. Give the changes a couple of weeks to work. Almost any change will work for a day or two. Get a notebook and write down your shot sequence. When you make a change write it down. Note the change you made and what you got for that change. Changes to form are often difficult to express in words. Photos and video are great ways to keep a record of them. 

Good luck,
Allen


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

buckshot087 said:


> I know that I lean back, I always have no matter what bow or draw length. Maybe because I started off shooting a bow that was too long and got used to it. Now when I force myself to lean forward, it feels really unstable and uncomfortable. I don't know whether I should make myself stand straight and try to get used to it, or lean back slightly like I always have and be comfortable.
> 
> Also, this is the shortest draw length module I can get for my bow. It is the 25 1/2" module, that measures around 26 1/8". I feel like its almost too short because I have to lean my head into the string just a little. I also can't hold steady at all. When I put the next size module on (1/2" longer), it feels a little more comfortable and I can hold steadier, even though it makes the arrow shaft sit a little behind my eye. With the shortest module, (the one in the pictures), the end of the shaft is really close to being in line with my eye. I have a close up of my face that Ill post.


You have a POSTURE problem.

So,
if you choose to lean backwards,
your head will be away from the string.

So,
if a DL module is not allowing YOU to hold steady,
when leaning backwards,
and
you choose to not adjust your posture...

then,
untwist the bowstring (top and bottom end loops)
to make the bow DL setting slightly longer,
if needed.


----------



## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

lots of good help from everyone i see...on the first pic the dl , looks short to me on the last pic it looks pretty good.... its real hard to tell in pics[for me anyway] ill chime in and say open your stance some....your anchor like nuts and bolts said does look far away, but it hard for me to see that from the pic...but he did pick up on the posture ... have someone watch you draw.... and see if your are pre, loading.. by that i mean see if your twisting the body while drawing....open the stance some it will help


----------



## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

Ive been working on standing straight today and its going ok. I took off 4 oz. of stabilizer weight. As far as draw length, Ive been switching modules, twisting and untwisting the string, and Ive got a setup now that I think is going to work. Ive got the shortest module on there (the one in the picture), and have 3 twists out of the string. I normally don't like taking twists out, but with the next size module, Id have to twist it up too much. The way I have it set up it doesn't seem to be dropping low much, if any. The pin sways left and right just a little, pretty slow, back and forth over the X. Is this what most people look for? Should I stop here? Or should I continue to look for less pin movement? Also I wanted to ask if taking 3 twists out of my string would hurt anything


----------



## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

buckshot087 said:


> Ive been working on standing straight today and its going ok. I took off 4 oz. of stabilizer weight. As far as draw length, Ive been switching modules, twisting and untwisting the string, and Ive got a setup now that I think is going to work. Ive got the shortest module on there (the one in the picture), and have 3 twists out of the string. I normally don't like taking twists out, but with the next size module, Id have to twist it up too much. The way I have it set up it doesn't seem to be dropping low much, if any. The pin sways left and right just a little, pretty slow, back and forth over the X. Is this what most people look for? Should I stop here? Or should I continue to look for less pin movement? Also I wanted to ask if taking 3 twists out of my string would hurt anything


Experiment with the string twists.

If the sight pin is swaying back and forth,
in a LARGER slow pattern...

try ADDING twists to shorten the bowstring.

This will ONLY work if your posture is consistent...
this will ONLY work if your foot position is consistent (have the tips of your shoes, ankles, knees, hips, waist, shoulders all parallel).

If your shoulders are SOMETIMES parallel
and
if your shoulders are SOMETIMES not parallel...

the distance from your bow hand to your release elbow will INCREASE and DECREASE,
depending on how parallel your shoulders are to the arrow, when at full draw.

So,
when your bow shoulder is far away from the arrow,
shoulders are pointed left of where the arrow is aiming...

your bow hand to release elbow distance is SHORTER, and the sight pin is going to sway in a slow, LARGE pattern.


So,
when your shoulders are PARALLEL to the arrow, when at full draw,
your bow hand to release elbow distance is slightly LONGER, and the sight pin is going to sway LESS...more steady.


So, POSTURE is very important in terms of how steady your sight pin looks.


----------



## archer60x (Nov 24, 2008)

I can't tell by the pictures but it seems you are not anchored to your jaw bone with your release hand, not sure, maybe you can comment. Your grip on your release is very relaxed. Personally I would say your draw length is too short, you seem to be leaning into the string instead of having your head upright with your right eye directly inline with your belt buckle. Your bow arm should be bent SLIGHTLY. An easy way to see this is to lean against a wall with your bow arm and position your arm until it feels comfortable and you are able to stay in that position with little effort. You look like a tall guy, I may be wrong. I am only 5' 5 1/2" and my draw is 25.5" with a string loop. Draw elbow should be in line with your nose and I would open your stance to at least shoulder width.

Hope this helps!

Cheers


----------



## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

I anchor on the back corner of my jaw bone where it started to curve up. I see that some of you say it looks farther back than normal... where does everyone else anchor on their jaw? And if I move my anchor closer towards my mouth, the string doesn't reach my nose. My bow arm is bent slightly, if it didn't look like it in the pictures.

I have now shortened my draw about 1/4" from where it was, and moved my anchor up just a hair, (not noticeable with the naked eye), and I can hold A LOT steadier. Im shooting better than ever. I can't seem to understand why I need a such a short draw length though. I don't stand with a very open stance or anything. I'm 5'10" and my wingspan DL measurement is 27.5". So I don't understand why it takes a 26" draw (or a little less), for the end of the arrow shaft to land around the front of my eye.


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

You might try looking at anchor a little differently. Most of us say our anchor is a point on our face. However, that is really a result of having good alignment and having your back muscles holding the load at full draw.

At first don't look at where the nock is in relation to your eye. Find the best position for your scapula. The new Larry Wise video explains this pretty well. You want your scapula close to your spine, but not so close that you can't get enough movement to execute your release. 

The nock under the eye rule of thumb came about because that's where it works out for a lot of good archers. But it's not a hard and fast rule for every archer. Somewhere, I have a photo of Chance Beaubouef with the nock of his arrow about an inch behind his arrow. Chance is one of the steadiest archers in the world. Even compared to other pro's he has very little movement. 

Your anchor point on your face is important only as an indicator of other parts of your form being set up right.

Allen


----------



## buckshot087 (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks. I've read Larry Wise's book so I know exactly what youre talking about. I just didn't put it into practice. I'll try drawing and see how everything feels in my back.


----------

