# Martin Panther ? Fastest Recurve ?



## wojo14

You struck my interest, so I wanted to look it up.
I looked on their website, I do not see a Panther?


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## LongStick64

Wojo look under Take-Down, not under Traditional


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## wojo14

Oh!
Looks pretty complex!
Personally, I am more traditional.
You gonna try one?


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## wojo14

I like the looks of the saber a little better


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## LongStick64

If I could find someone that has shot one and can back the claim of it being a fast bow, I might, but I am leery when a bow company makes a claim on speed and does not post any speeds.


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## wojo14

i totally understand.
Sometimes with speed you sacrifice things.


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## CAPTJJ

The Panther was called the Diablo last year, same bow.


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## ranchoarcher

If it's any help. I have a 40lb saber I picked up recently. It's amo is 64 which is a little longer than the panther (formerly diablo) which has a 62 amo. The same limbs are used on both along with the jaguar which is a 60 amo. The amo would affect the speed and the actual weight at a given draw length. For sake of comparison. The saber pulled to 29 shoots a 350 grn arrow at about 185 fps. I could be wrong and it is just a guess but I would think the shorter amo would produce higher speeds. Based on that, the saber is likely the slowest of the bunch. 185 is a good speed but I can't say it's the fastest for that given weight. Their ad may pertain to compound bows so a call to them might be warranted to clarify that point.


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## LongStick64

No the ad is right on the Panther recurve page, it clearly claims to be the fastest.


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## J-san

I tried a Diablo before. Not sure about speed, but it definitely was not the smoothest bow I've shot. Not even close by a long shot. I would say it ranks around the same level of the Samick Sage. The bow doesn't shoot poorly - actually fairly well given the price it is, but to say it is the "smoothest and fastest" is downright wrong.


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## ranchoarcher

Looks like you're right longstick. I took a look and sure enough, the claim is made. In this era of litigation there must be an element of truth to it. It still might be worth a call to see exactly what the specifics of the claim are. There are a myriad of bow types and I'd assume this claim is limited to one of those. A word of caution though. These bows are not meant to be shot off the shelf unless you really build out the strike plate. The cut past center is very deep. I believe they started life as compound bows and have been resurrected back into service as recurves. They look sharp and for the money are excellent. More importantly is, are they accurate? I'd say yes. It depends mostly on ability just like any other bow. This was today at 25 yards, learning to gap with no mechanical sight. 3 arrows at just a shade over 2 inches across. Not too shabby for a $250 bow


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## grantmac

Not even as smooth or fast as the one-piece Martins. Cheap limbs bolted on to a compound riser with all the wrong geometry. Shame to see how Martin has treated their recurve line.

-Grant


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## ghostgoblin22

The saber is a damn good take down bow, it's the smoothest of the three and that's what counts the most to me


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## Paul

*Martin Archery metal riser recurves*

Martin traditional bows like the Mamba and the Super Diablo are famous for being fast and smooth. The Super Diablo and the Saber (THE ONE PIECE WOOD RECURVE MODEL) are known for being some of the fastest recurve bows ever produced. Speed is not one of my priorities I had and old Bear recurve, that was very slow, but extremely accurate!! I love the traditional bow line of Martin being the only “problem “ (for me) that there are no longer takedown wooden models like the Hatfield or the High Speed; this might be because actually it´s too hard to compete with a product that requires artisanal workmanship against the expensive metal riser recurve, fashion that prevails today. I think Martin Archery is one of the best traditional bow makers, and It´s getting hard for me to sleep well, thinking about that nice looking metal Saber t/d, with its reflex look but I am still skeptical about the limbs. I had a PSE Coyote that I liked a lot, and gave me a very good service for 3 years until the limbs that came with it, got broken, after that; 3 sets of reposition/warranty limbs broke again within a short period of time. The company that makes that bow keep on sending more limbs without even asking for the broken ones. I personally like more Martin bows than PSE, most of reviews about the metal Martin riser recurves tend to be good, so 
Please send more reviews!!


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## grantmac

Martin does not produce the limbs for any of the metal handled bows. They are just rebranded Ragim I believe, not exactly premium.

The last thing you want is a recurve with a reflex or inline riser unless the only thing you care about is speed.

-Grant


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## Paul

Thanks a lot Grant!!
For what you are saying, it would be the same as with the PSE Coyote, so Iwill keep away from the metal risers I Hope Martin will bring back the Hatfield or something similar 
Happy shooting !!


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## ranchoarcher

Just because a limb is made elsewhere it shouldn't be presumed as inherently inferior. Does Hoyt make all their limbs that carry their name? Nope. How about Samick, PSE, or some of the others. For example. The Sage is not made in Korea where Samick is home based. They are made in.....China. Not sure if it's the entire bow but I did see a "made in china" sticker either on the limbs or the riser. Can't remember which. What matters is what are you getting for your money. Don't expect a $250 bow to have all the bells and whistles a $2500 bow does. By the same token, does the $1000 bow have anything to justify it's price beyond marketing hype? Ragim is based in Italy. That said, does it mean the limbs are made there? Maybe not.

Concerning reflex or deflex riser. It's taste, ability, and what you're intending to do with it. Reflex risers are generally faster but with less forgiveness than a deflex or so the story goes. The physical difference is that the reflex has your hand on the riser behind the vetical line drawn between the pivot point of the limb pockets where as delfex has it at or in front of it.


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## ghostgoblin22

i have a martin saber and it shoots pretty damn good for a recurve @ 200 bucks, its the smoothest recurve ive ever shot, and feels so good when the arrow is released, if someone is on a 250$ dollar budget, i wouldnt over look the martin take down series,


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## Matt_Potter

Anytime your limb buts are pushed out in front of the deepest part of the grip you are looking at a twitchy bow. As far as speed with a laminated wood and glass limb - smooth maybe but, fast I doubt it.

Matt


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## MARTIN CEO

We actually replaced the diablo with an improved version and it has been getting great reviews. As for Hoyt, We actually didn't have time to look at anyone else's bows since we took over in October and had to have the Panther complete for a January launch. The response at the shows has been amazing when people shoot the panther and I have heard some comparisons to other manufacturers higher priced takedowns but it was all driven here internally at Martin... 

Rich


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## LongStick64

Rich

I appreciate the response. Can you offer any benchmarks on this bow, it looks like a fast bow but to make an advertising claim that it is the fastest, someone like me who has been involved with archery for over 35 years, begs to know, faster than what exactly ? or better yet of fast is it.


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## BarneySlayer

Fastest? Compared to what? Within their line? Among the metal riser bows?

For reference, my 54# Predator Velocity, with a 28 1/2" draw length, with silencers, puts a 432gn arrow through the chronograph about 200-201 fps, without silencers about 208-209 fps, shooting fingers with a glove. My bow is reasonably fast, but not near the fastest by far. Many of the ILF rigs with top of the line limbs will make my bow seem a little on the slow side.

For all I know, may be a fine bow for the money, and ultimately, it really comes down to what you like, and if it works for you. Speed is nice, but comfort, consistency, and the ability to have fun (which promotes shooting, which improves accuracy), in my opinion, is far more important.

As for Martin, I would say that, in my experience, they have been an absolutely great company to deal with. I once had an old Martin Hatfield take down. This bow had a different bolt system than the newer ones. Bought it with 50# limbs. Wanted something heavier, asked if I could get 70# limbs. Sent in the riser, and they made new limbs from scratch to fit the old design. Great bow, I think, overall, though ultimately I gave it to a friend, as the riser didn't really fit my hand all that well, tended to make the muscles in my thumb tired, as the shape of it required a high grip to not torque the bow, but the contour of the handle didn't sit well with the shape of my hand.

They've also repaired a compound under warranty for me before, when it really, technically, didn't need to be. So, customer service, great, and I think they've got some good products too. My wife has an X-200 she got when she was 14 that she adores, and will never give up. Does pretty well competing with it too.


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## ranchoarcher

Since we're bending the boss's ear. I have one design change suggestion for the saber. On the left side of the grip there is that rubber extension that sticks up a bit. It probably should be lowered about a 1/4 inch since arrow vanes can strike it from paradox on release. The panther and Jag appear to have that cured already. I cut off about a 1/4 inch or so once I noticed the streak marks from the vanes running the length of it on the inside. Not that big a deal and was an easy fix but for someone who isn't arrow paradox savvy they'd never realize why the arrows weren't flying straight.

Before










After


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## Oliver-Queen

Yes and no. It is not the smoothest or the fastest, but the Panther/Diablo (the panther and the diablo are the same bow except the diablo was made and sold a year before the panther) is an amazing bow. The panther performs like a bow that is 200 dollars more expensive. It is a great hunting bow and a good target bow. Over all it is amazing for what it cost but its pn the low end o f the price spectrum as far as high quality bows go.


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## Josh_RN

:darkbeer: :moviecorn:


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## Hank D Thoreau

Ragim covers the lower end of the archery market, much like Cartel. I would not expect their limbs to rate with Hoyt, Win Win, or Samick. High end limbs is not their core business.


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## Jeb-D.

I'd expect it to be fast with a reflexed handle and low brace height. Though possibly twitchy without a stab. 

The only experience I have with Martin bows is the Savannah. Although totally different than the Panther, I was impressed by it. It seemed very fast for a not-so-radical r/d longbow.


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## LongStick64

So basically after all this time the claim is unproven, that is what frustrates me about this sport, claims made to lure the unsuspecting, put a comfortable price on it, make a wild claim and then rope in all who can't afford a Hoyt Buffalo. Great market plan but not for the real archer.


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## MoSportsman

I am shooting a Panther #50, bought it last spring. I have taken a doe with it so far and a first place 3D trophy shooting a 335 from traditional flags. I have it set up with sights, stabilizer and a springy rest with a plunger. I shot it through a cronograph before I put a fast flight string on it with 30 inch 500 GT trad arrows just under 500 grains. The chronograph numbers were in the 170 fps range. I have not tested the bow on a chrony since I changed to the fast flight string. The new string required me to jump up a spine weight so now I am shooting 400s with 200 gr heads and total weight about 525 grains.

I do not have anything to compare this bow to because I am new to recurves but I am happy with it.


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## LongStick64

thanks for that info MoSportsman, Even if you add 15fps to your speed with the new string, Martin's claim that it is the fastest bow is nowhere accurate. The bow may be a nice bow to shoot, I just wish bowyers especially ones that have been in the business for a while would keep their claims to the actual facts.


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## Zeroofshaolin

Looking to buy one of these bows if anybody on here is trying to sell


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