# Anyone ever feel like their cheating?



## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

Actually, no. I started out on recurve thinking I would just shoot traditional style and not get into anything serious. Then I shot a compound, and liked it too much not to switch. 

Technology advances for a reason. Why shouldn't we use it?


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## LittleBucker (Dec 22, 2008)

i started shooting recrve when i was 2,but when i was 3 my dad got a compond for me:teeth:


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## countryboy173 (Jul 18, 2008)

Cheating? No
Do I feel as if i have an advantage over recurve/trad guys? Absolutely


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I shoot home made longbows. But I've recently switched to aluminum arrows for their consistency. Considering I'm a frequent poster on Primitive Archer forum, that might well be cheating.

No, I'm not as good as a compound shooter. My bows aren't as fast or easy to shoot (ie. no sight and release). But I can shoot bottle caps out of the air and peg the target at 60 yards. 

I think about the whole thing often. Compounds, store bought recurves and longbows, and my own simple wooden weapons. In the end, everything is a trade off. If I had a compound and had to change the draw- I'd need either some sort of bow press, or worse, I'd have to take it to a pro shop. Likewise, a good compound costs what, about $400? My bows barely cost pocket change, just the time I put into them. Likewise. Does a modern recurve shoot better than my sticks? Of course they do- and they're easier to tune. But I can't reason paying $400 for a good recurve either.

If I had money to throw around I'm sure there would be a modern recurve _and_ a compound hanging on my wall- because i love all aspects of archery. But I don't have any money. So I'll just keep building my own and working to become a better shot myself. 

Cheating? Naw. Barebow with fingers you shoot alot faster.


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## fishycatfish (Dec 10, 2005)

Sure it has advantages but its not cheating in anyway...I shoot a recurve for fun but i love my compound.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

i like both styles. but its so hard shooting long range with a recurve and i like getting out there and firing a arrow at at to 100 yds once and awhile.

my max for recurve is like 30 yds and the group is ok. if i ever hunt with it i wont shoot over 20 yds .


both or fun and i dont feel like im cheating when i use my compound


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

sawtoothscream said:


> its so hard shooting long range with a recurve and i like getting out there and firing a arrow at at to 100 yds once and awhile.
> 
> my max for recurve is like 30 yds and the group is ok. if i ever hunt with it i wont shoot over 20 yds .


You ever try it? I can shoot 60-80 yards on a good day, and should be able to do 100 once I get a few new bows done up. Even with my selfbows shooting 40-50 yards is a pretty easy feat?


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## Caleb ConDoin (Jul 4, 2008)

Hmm I think I just get a better feeling of accomplishment when I hit a bulls-eye with a recurve than a compound cause it's like I did it and I didn't use anything to help me. I mean I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just wondering if I'm alone in that...


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

Caleb ConDoin said:


> Hmm I think I just get a better feeling of accomplishment when I hit a bulls-eye with a recurve than a compound cause it's like I did it and I didn't use anything to help me. I mean I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just wondering if I'm alone in that...


If that is the way you get your grins, go for it, man! I have a lot of respect for people who shoot that style, especially those who do it well. But, I prefer my compound, and I am unashamed.


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## Caleb ConDoin (Jul 4, 2008)

Sighting In said:


> If that is the way you get your grins, go for it, man! I have a lot of respect for people who shoot that style, especially those who do it well. But, I prefer my compound, and I am unashamed.


O well thanks for the opinions guys!


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## jms375 (Jul 29, 2007)

Its not cheating to use a compound but its definitely an advantage over a recurve. I just started shooting a recurve some this year. Its alot more challenging for sure but you still have to be on the deer with either one. The main difference I see is that I can just go pick up my compound and hit where I'm aiming. With my recurve I have to continually practice to be able to hit anything. I'm not relying on the technology but more on my own work. With that said, you won't find me in my tree right now without my compound.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

I guess the real reason I personally don't see it as an advantage with a compound is because of all the drawbacks. For example...

Any time I need a new piece of equipment, I cut a tree and let it dry. If I wanted a new compound, sight, etc., I would need to come up with the money to get it. Considering time input for building or working for the money to pay for it, it would probably be very close- difference being that instead of flippin' burgers I'm learning how bows improve and work, and also get to enjoy another aspect of the sport (and who knows, this very well might lead to future career choices).

Second, is the actual shot process. Properly tuned, one of my stickbows can outshoot me. Which means that all I need to do is pull up, aim, release. On a good day I can get an arrow out of the quiver and into the target in six seconds (accurately mind you). For hunting that's about as beneficial as you can get, two shots in less than ten seconds. With a compound, between the release and sighting you're at a disadvantage if you need a second shot. Further, no matter what numerous archers- traditional or compound- I don't think bow quivers are as fast on the reload as people want you to think. Add on a complicated rest and you might as well have a flintlock in your hands.

Sights themselves aren't my preference for hunting on any except the fastest bows. Having to gauge distancebefore you can even take aim slows you down. Shooting barebow you are at an advantage... provided you're well practiced enough to make it happen.

In the end everything's a trade off. Take what you have and do the best you can with it. Just because something may be exceptional on targets, doesn't mean it can hold up with the rigors of actual hunting. Not being able to cant your bow? That alone would put me to tears.


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

kegan said:


> I guess the real reason I personally don't see it as an advantage with a compound is because of all the drawbacks. For example...
> 
> Any time I need a new piece of equipment, I cut a tree and let it dry. If I wanted a new compound, sight, etc., I would need to come up with the money to get it. Considering time input for building or working for the money to pay for it, it would probably be very close- difference being that instead of flippin' burgers I'm learning how bows improve and work, and also get to enjoy another aspect of the sport (and who knows, this very well might lead to future career choices).
> 
> ...


At the same time, Kegan, most of those things you listed I don't really see as annoying as a compound shooter. I think a lot of it is in the eye of the beholder.

By the way, would you mind posting a vid of you shooting quickly? I have wanted to see somebody do it for real, not Legolas or something. 

Cheers.


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

kegan said:


> You ever try it? I can shoot 60-80 yards on a good day, and should be able to do 100 once I get a few new bows done up. Even with my selfbows shooting 40-50 yards is a pretty easy feat?


furthest i shot my recurve is 40 yards. it is fun trying to hit far rangs with one though. recurves are deffinatly alot more of a challenge and i enjoy shooting it more than my compounds.

ned a heavier recurve though. just got to save up a couple hundred bucks to buy a good take down


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Sighting In- Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean them to be huge pitfalls. Just aspects of them that may be seen as disadvantages. Just like with traditional bows. Slower, harder to put a sight on, can't normally be equipped with all the shooting gear to help the shot like FITA rigs, and lighter. As longbow shooter, I don't see a problem with them, but they are aspects that put them at a loss compared with compounds (if that's the mentallity you come in with it as). Frankly, the only actual "downside" that I mentioned would be cost. Eveyrhint else can simply be worked around (only have one shot? just make it count- that sort of thing).

As for the video, I'll try. We have dial up so loading videos takes a while. I'll see what I can do. Truth be told, it doesn't look that spectacular. The archer just moves at a little faster pace than you normally see. It doesn't even seem that spectacular until you time it:lol:.

Sawtooth- What weight are you shooting? I recently fiished a 43# @ 28" bamboo backed red oak longbow that shot like a demon with a 500 gr arrow (point on distance was about 60 yards). Sure was fun


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## sawtoothscream (Apr 19, 2008)

kegan said:


> Sighting In- Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean them to be huge pitfalls. Just aspects of them that may be seen as disadvantages. Just like with traditional bows. Slower, harder to put a sight on, can't normally be equipped with all the shooting gear to help the shot like FITA rigs, and lighter. As longbow shooter, I don't see a problem with them, but they are aspects that put them at a loss compared with compounds (if that's the mentallity you come in with it as). Frankly, the only actual "downside" that I mentioned would be cost. Eveyrhint else can simply be worked around (only have one shot? just make it count- that sort of thing).
> 
> As for the video, I'll try. We have dial up so loading videos takes a while. I'll see what I can do. Truth be told, it doesn't look that spectacular. The archer just moves at a little faster pace than you normally see. It doesn't even seem that spectacular until you time it:lol:.
> 
> Sawtooth- What weight are you shooting? I recently fiished a 43# @ 28" bamboo backed red oak longbow that shot like a demon with a 500 gr arrow (point on distance was about 60 yards). Sure was fun


idk. bow says 45# but doesnt tell at what dl. im guessing at 28". my draw length is 26.5" so im guessing im under 40 pounds?


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## Preci$e$hooter (Oct 7, 2006)

Not really. Sort of with a gun, because its so much easier


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

kegan said:


> As for the video, I'll try. We have dial up so loading videos takes a while. I'll see what I can do. Truth be told, it doesn't look that spectacular. The archer just moves at a little faster pace than you normally see. It doesn't even seem that spectacular until you time it:lol:.


I understand. I was just wondering how you do it. I have seen people pull and shoot pretty quickly, but I wanted to know how you loaded it smoothly and quickly. Thanks anyways.


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## AZHUNTER10 (Nov 2, 2009)

Preci$e$hooter said:


> Not really. Sort of with a gun, because its so much easier


Depends on the terrain you hunt during rifle season :shade:


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## flailer (Mar 24, 2006)

*cheating*

cheating no. is it a lot easier than trad. equip. hell yes. i shoot both and get a ton of fun out of both. if i want to go out and just have some fun i will take my recurve. if i want to go out and shoot an animal and know with 100% confidence the outcome i bring my compound. i only take slam dunk shots 20 yards and less although i shoot tournaments year round and practice regularly out to 80yards. it is all a personal thing. if i was more skilled with my recurve i could probably do it with my recurve but i still have not gotten there yet. i think mostly due to it is way harder and requires more time and dedication. i spend most of my time practicing with my compound. but back to your question about cheating. heck no i am nowhere near where i or a lot of compound archers want to be. there are very very few top level compound shooters around capable of producing the very best scores some of us desire to shoot.


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## habanero (Sep 16, 2009)

Caleb, I'm envious of the guys that approach archery as you do. I just started shooting this year w/my son- compounds. I'm not really comfortable with all the equipment and technology, not sure I ever will be. I love to shoot but I do feel like I don't deserve to be nailing bullseyes regularly after a few months of practice, it's the technology not me. I told my son we are going to work our way backwards from new to old school, in a year or two we will take off the training wheels and start shooting traditional. Besides I have 5 acres of hedgeapple trees (a.k.a. bowdock) there's a lot of bows in there just begging to be built.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Sawtooth- Almost every factory bow is weighed at 28". So you'd be about 39-40#. How heavy are your arrows? 

Sighting In- Arrow comes over my shoulder (out of the quiver) and onto the string. I then drop my arm straight and bring it up as I draw to my anchor. My bow hand is on target before I reach anchor, so I finish straight back, only a brief pause to aim (mostly concentrating on the spot to hit) and release. Total time for me: 6 seconds (sit down and count six thousands off, and it won't seem that great). Smooth and even is the only way to hit small targets on the wing too (like jug caps). Oh- and bear in mind that speed shooting is jsut something that's possible. I've slowed my practice shots down dramatically and don't shoot so quickly at all times.

Something that I've noticed. Everyone says trad is harder than a compound. Why is that? Provided the gear is tuned and the archer isn't over-bowed (and with most male archers thinking they can handle 50-55# bows right off the bat, that might be it), shooting barebow with a recurve- or even longbow- really isn't that hard. 

On a whim, I picked up a lighter bow and decidd to try and shoot left handed a few months ago. I'm not left handed nor am I left-eye dominant. This would be about as unfamiliar as a person unexperienced to shooting would be. Ten to fifteen paces I was hitting the middle of the target (and holding a roughly 10" group). 

For those of you who say trad is harder: why? Because a compound achieves a higher level of accuracy then traditional, or is there jsut a lack of instruction on proper barebow shooting methods?


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## Sighting In (Feb 5, 2009)

kegan said:


> For those of you who say trad is harder: why? Because a compound achieves a higher level of accuracy then traditional, or is there jsut a lack of instruction on proper barebow shooting methods?


I'm going to take a guess and say both. I do not think the technology is too much more consistent. With a properly set up Olympic recurve set up, it will hit the same place every time. However, the way people shoot them makes it more difficult to be consistent. A release will make the string osculate left and right much more and it will come off cleaner, etc. So, yah, because of the difference in technology, a compound is much more easier to be consistent and accurate with.

But, I think you are right, and that a lot of people do not have proper instruction when shooting. You hear of a lot of people in the general forum who ask "how's my form" because they have nobody else to ask. I am not saying that is their fault or anything, but if they had a real coach of any kind, they would probably be much better shots.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

You make a good point, but on a recurve or longbow that is indeed long enough (and there we have yet another complication amongst modern trad archers shooting too-short hunting recurves and "longbows") and with decent weight, the finger release won't get too in the way (hey- Oly archers can stay in the gold at 100 yards with their fingers). But I do see your point, and alot of habbits of archers aren't very conducive to a clean release either.

I think one of the really big problems of modern trad archers is that they either don't realize the importance of proper form, or as you said don't know what that is. I've seen more archers asking what's wrong with their bow or arrows, expecting to find some magic solution... when the hole time they're shooting like archery is an acrobatics exhibition in the circus. Considering the popularity of the "differences" between trad and compounders, alot of them don't understand that _good form is good form_. Period. 

For example, when I started the first book I got was "Instinctive Shooting" by G. Fred Asbell. Decent shot, terrific hunter- bad teacher! I spent years trying his bent knee, barely-any-form snap shooting style. Didn't work. Seems that alot of stuff out there is just by those who just happened on something that works for them... but really won't work for others. Same thing for aiming. The notion of instinctive shooting has mucked up accuracy for alot of newcomers (it was about... four? five? years before I finally found out how to actually aim... and that was by accident!).


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## bigstankie78 (Dec 9, 2009)

I see where you're coming from, but I can honestly say that I never felt that way. My dad started me out using a recurve, and it was fun, but it was fun for what it was. When I got my first compound bow (Parker BuckShot) it opened up so many more possibilities. I enjoy shooting a Recurve bow, but compounds just let you do so much more. To me, you can't really compare them...


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

bigstankie78 said:


> I enjoy shooting a Recurve bow, but compounds just let you do so much more. To me, you can't really compare them...


You can't compare them, but you have soemthing mixed up.

_You_ may not be able to take advantage of what a traditional bow has to offer, but they are by far much more flexible. How often do you hear about guys going bird hunting with compounds? You don't, because it's not practical. I enjoy trick shooting and I can shoot from my back, bent way over, with the bow from every angle and postion- including bending over backwards. I'm decent, but I'm capable of things very few- if ANY- compound shooters are capable of because of the sheer nature of how they are shot. 

If you'd like, I can show some pictures of what _I_ can do with a stickbow.


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## bigstankie78 (Dec 9, 2009)

kegan said:


> You can't compare them, but you have soemthing mixed up.
> 
> _You_ may not be able to take advantage of what a traditional bow has to offer, but they are by far much more flexible. How often do you hear about guys going bird hunting with compounds? You don't, because it's not practical. I enjoy trick shooting and I can shoot from my back, bent way over, with the bow from every angle and postion- including bending over backwards. I'm decent, but I'm capable of things very few- if ANY- compound shooters are capable of because of the sheer nature of how they are shot.
> 
> Ya, I didn't word it right. It is easier to do trick shots like that. But when I said you can do more with a compound, what I meant is that unless you are Really good and experienced with a recurve and/or stickbow, you can't accurately take as farther of shots without the weather affecting you AS much.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

Ahh, now I understand. And you're right. Compounds make alot of people into better shots. But not everything is just a "trick", alot of it has real practical hunting application too.

Dunno about shooting in a mirror though. That could just be showing off.


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## PA3-DArcher4 (Nov 5, 2008)

countryboy173 said:


> Cheating? No
> Do I feel as if i have an advantage over recurve/trad guys? Absolutely


i agree completely. Ya know its still a challenge to shoot a compound, once you really start backin up to the long ranges. I actually really like shooting long range. me and my friends went to a bowhunter's festival and on the practice range there was a 65 yard elk shot... now that was cool. luckily it was on a bank and if you missed it hit the groiund and you could find an arrow real easy. luckily no lost arrows on that shot.  too bad i cant shoot too long of range at my house...cause if i miss i would hit trees. ha


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## Mach12 (Apr 3, 2007)

nope cuz the Olympic archers make me look bad with a stick and rubber band lol. but we do have advantages over them in tech but if your good with the recurve then you will think you have advantages over compound shooters. it goes both ways


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