# ASA Drug Testing?



## So_cal hunter88 (Oct 14, 2014)

Don’t see anything wrong with it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Drug testing is a good idea in the pro divisions IMO. The main concern is the notice seems kinda short for the small percentage that may not already be in compliance.
I checked the ASA Foley results, and about 80% of those that finished in the Top10 in Open Pro, Womens Pro, and Known Pro also shot in Vegas this year, so "most" of those who would/could be subject to testing would already be familiar with anti-doping rules and should already have their TUE's (Therapeutic Use Exemptions) if applicable.

As with the Eyler case, opposition to drug testing seems to come mostly from amateurs that aren't familiar with the process, and aren't subject to the anti-doping rules anyway.


----------



## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

Personally, I think it is crazy ASA doing this for the little dollars being won by the pro's. Might win $2,000.00-2,500.00 from ASA for 1st place finish. Now, if the bow manufactures wanted tests done since they are paying pretty large contingency's that might be different. Is the testing being done by the ASA going to cause the entry fees to rise? I'm guessing so since Mike doesn't want to lose a dime.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

ba3darcher said:


> Personally, I think it is crazy ASA doing this for the little dollars being won by the pro's. Might win $2,000.00-2,500.00 from ASA for 1st place finish. Now, if the bow manufactures wanted tests done since they are paying pretty large contingency's that might be different. Is the testing being done by the ASA going to cause the entry fees to rise? I'm guessing so since Mike doesn't want to lose a dime.


Foley's payback isn't up yet, but ASA payed back a total of $17,624 in Known Pro at Foley last year. The podium checks aren't huge because the pros have opted for more even payback distribution rather than bigger checks for a smaller percentage, but the purses are still significant and generally larger than the combined manufacturer contingencies.


----------



## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

nestly said:


> Foley's payback isn't up yet, but ASA payed back a total of $17,624 in Known Pro at Foley last year. The podium checks aren't huge because the pros have opted for more even payback distribution rather than bigger checks for a smaller percentage, but the purses are still significant and generally larger than the combined manufacturer contingencies.


If you total all pro shooters pay back from Foley 2018 the total is $44,065.00. This is 4 different classes. Vegas payed $50,000.00, which I can understand testing for championship class, but that is 1 class. My guess is someone has mentioned something and caused this testing thing to be implemented, especially since it was not announced prior to the start of season. It just seems a waste of money by ASA and not really needed. It is what it is, as it wont effect me since I don't shoot pro class anymore.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

So your argument is that $45K is not enough to be concerned about doping. I dont agree....thats well beyond where archery as a whole should be concerned about doping and far more than the prizes available in USAA and World archery competitions that have been drug testing for 10 or more years. Basically no one fails because if you care enough about high level competition to make the commitment, you also care enough to shoot clean.

I personally have not hear one legitimate Pro that's opposed to anti-doping rules, its the amateurs that have no stake that complain for some reason thats unknown to me

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


----------



## Redmagnum (Dec 7, 2018)

What exactly are they going to be testing for? I'm a FNG to the game so just wondering what would be a performance enhancing drug for 3D shooting?


----------



## So_cal hunter88 (Oct 14, 2014)

Any kind of drug that enhance ur ability 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

I think it's a good idea...from my understanding there gonna test every pro that makes the shoot down I'm guessing it will done before hand...never did hear if gone use the usada guidelines or not


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Yes USADA, the rest is non-specific other than it says it will be done randomly. A letter addressed to the pros is on the BowJunky FB.


----------



## So_cal hunter88 (Oct 14, 2014)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wv hoyt man (Feb 17, 2012)

It is a randomly done test......


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Who is going to pay for it? A comprehensive test can be very, very expensive.


----------



## southgaboy (Jan 28, 2007)

I think it will be fine. Was kinda surprised to see it started on short notice but their game their rules.


----------



## Redmagnum (Dec 7, 2018)

So_cal hunter88 said:


> Any kind of drug that enhance ur ability
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kinda vague, I'd hope they will be giving competitors a list of banned substances. Would hate to see a person tossed for taking some decongestants or other over the counter meds with a banned substance in them.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Redmagnum said:


> Kinda vague, I'd hope they will be giving competitors a list of banned substances. Would hate to see a person tossed for taking some decongestants or other over the counter meds with a banned substance in them.


1) Anti-doping only applies to professional archers and other national level competitors, so everyone else shooting beginner classes up to and including semi-pro have no need to concern themselves with any of this as it does not apply to them.

2) Virtually every substance/chemical/drug that can be ingested, inhaled, or injected is in the database, so ANY person with access to the internet can check any substance/chemical/drug to see whether it's prohibited based on the sport. 

Global DRO (Global Drug Reference Online) 

https://www.globaldro.com/Home


----------



## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

Anyone else catch the note about the schedule conflict :darkbeer:


----------



## ba3darcher (Jan 13, 2005)

I don't shoot IBO but do they or will they also implement drug testing?


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

ba3darcher said:


> I don't shoot IBO but do they or will they also implement drug testing?


It's unlikely that IBO would drug test.

1) Anti-doping regulations really only apply to pros, and the pro level participation in IBO is only a fraction of what it is in ASA, thus payouts and contingencies are also much less.

2) IBO is generally much less concerned about enforcing competitive controls to ensure fair competition compared to ASA.


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I've heard the reason for starting it is it saves a lot on the insurance rates for the ASA. I'm all for it.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

sagecreek said:


> I've heard the reason for starting it is it saves a lot on the insurance rates for the ASA. I'm all for it.


Wonder if the cost of drug testing outweighs the savings.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Even if its not cost effective, not drug testing is unfair to the pros that have to be clean all the time because they also shoot USAA and World Archery. Its not fair that some can dope and some cant dope at the same competition. For high level archery to be legit....we need to know athletes are clean. 

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


----------



## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Don’t see how steroids could really improve your ability to shoot. The only thing that could help would be a little alcohol or some kind of prescription drugs to kill the nerves. A simple pee in the cup Walmart test would work. No need to drag usada out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TT965 (Jul 4, 2014)

I think its a great idea


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

I admittedly don't know much about Walmart drug tests, are they are comprehensive enough to detect all the different regulated substances AND the threshold levels?. For example, is a Walmart kit capable of detecting all the different types of BetaBlockers, and/or distinguish between a permissible amount of THC and an non-permissible level? Somehow I doubt UFC, NFL, NBA, NASCAR, PGA, etc are using Walmart test kits... and if not, archery shouldn't either. The purpose isn't just to detect impairment from alcohol, narcotics, etc, it's to detect PEDs (performance enhancing drugs)


----------



## Scottspot50 (Nov 21, 2017)

Right now I don’t care. If I have a heart attack and get placed on a beta blocker ( first line treatment) I’ll be banned from competitions when I’m well enough to shoot. If I periodically control asthma using a steroid, once again I can’t compete. Guess I’ll compete while I can and wait to be pissed off until later. Realistically though, would you use a beta blocker if you didn’t have to when you knew that the drop,in blood pressure would prevent you from getting an erection? Does using a steroid allow you to hold longer than around 6/seconds to get your shot in the air? If a steroid made you stronger, could you shoot faster than the crono’d speed limit? How about just testing the guys on the podium (or people winning money). And have a big penalty, like you’re banned for a year. If you’re a pro, do you want to take a 100% cut in pay and lose your sponsors? That would be my approach.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Scottspot50 said:


> Right now I don’t care. If I have a heart attack and get placed on a beta blocker ( first line treatment) I’ll be banned from competitions when I’m well enough to shoot. If I periodically control asthma using a steroid, once again I can’t compete. Guess I’ll compete while I can and wait to be pissed off until later. Realistically though, would you use a beta blocker if you didn’t have to when you knew that the drop,in blood pressure would prevent you from getting an erection? Does using a steroid allow you to hold longer than around 6/seconds to get your shot in the air? If a steroid made you stronger, could you shoot faster than the crono’d speed limit? How about just testing the guys on the podium (or people winning money). And have a big penalty, like you’re banned for a year. If you’re a pro, do you want to take a 100% cut in pay and lose your sponsors? That would be my approach.



If you listened to interviews/podcasts with the pros on Bowjunky/Easton Podcast/Archery Uncensored/etc, you'd know the concensus for the drug with the most potential to provide an advantage for high level archers is Beta Blockers, also answered are the rest of your questions including the testing pool size and the penalties for a failed test. The "problems" with drug testing exist in the minds of those who are unfamiliar with it, not those who compete at a level that subjects them to anti-doping regs... those athletes fully understand the rules and implications and they want anti-doping, and they don't complain about the inconveniences endured to comply.


----------



## bowhnt07 (May 5, 2010)

Good idea.


----------



## ThwackerPSU (Oct 26, 2015)

I too would agree , what enhancing drug would even play part in archery? Just being able to draw your bow back all day long? I don't understand how this would effect archers. Not running marathons or trying to hit homers over the fence.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

ThwackerPSU said:


> I too would agree , what enhancing drug would even play part in archery? Just being able to draw your bow back all day long? I don't understand how this would effect archers. Not running marathons or trying to hit homers over the fence.


Strength/endurance is not generally an issue in archery, and certainly not at the very highest level, WHICH IS THE ONLY LEVEL WHERE ANTI DOPING REGS APPLY. At that level the biggest factors are mental, thus the restrictions on substances that artificially/chemically relax the archer and limit anxiety and nerves.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk


----------



## So_cal hunter88 (Oct 14, 2014)

ThwackerPSU said:


> I too would agree , what enhancing drug would even play part in archery? Just being able to draw your bow back all day long? I don't understand how this would effect archers. Not running marathons or trying to hit homers over the fence.


Why did lance Armstrong take enhancing drugs.. all he was doing was riding a bike.. why do any sport drug test you lol because they want to give everyone an even playing field 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## So_cal hunter88 (Oct 14, 2014)

Only if your shooting at the professional level, pro class, championship level will u be drug tested, this will not affect semi/ amateur or your average shooter 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Crometheis (Apr 26, 2019)

I’m gonna have to listen to that podcast. Drug testing seems like a waste of resources in an archery event. It would be like testing chess players for drugs (is this done?) yes i agree that being able to calm your nerves would help, but i’m guessing most pros are acclimatized to pressure conditions alrdy and any benefit would be nelagable. But, if they are making a case for testing, perhaps theres more to it. I’d like to hear more about it.


----------



## Tipe (May 19, 2018)

HighwayHunter said:


> Don’t see how steroids could really improve your ability to shoot.


U don't think that drug that allows You to recover and train more than normal people without getting tired isn't any help in this sport ?
As long as U pull 55-70# back times and times again without getting tired there is gain in drugs. 
Yes.. the main thing is how Your head is in practice but when your physics get tired your head is too.


This is good news, every sport where is even small possibility to improve your performance with drugs should be tested in top level.
After all in top level margins are pretty small and then small improvement via drugs makes a big difference.


----------



## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Tipe said:


> U don't think that drug that allows You to recover and train more than normal people without getting tired isn't any help in this sport ?
> As long as U pull 55-70# back times and times again without getting tired there is gain in drugs.
> Yes.. the main thing is how Your head is in practice but when your physics get tired your head is too.
> 
> ...


I understand your point, and I think steroids would help avoid fatigue. However I fear the money being spent on the testing could possibly take away from the archers, for what may only constitute a small advantage to the user. I think if you get tired shooting 20 targets in a day, then you just flat out need to shoot more. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tipe (May 19, 2018)

HighwayHunter said:


> I understand your point, and I think steroids would help avoid fatigue. However I fear the money being spent on the testing could possibly take away from the archers, for what may only constitute a small advantage to the user. I think if you get tired shooting 20 targets in a day, then you just flat out need to shoot more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hardly ever in any sport it is about actual competition where U get that instant gain from drugs.
That big difference comes when U practice to that competition to improve your performance.


----------



## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Tipe said:


> Hardly ever in any sport it is about actual competition where U get that instant gain from drugs.
> That big difference comes when U practice to that competition to improve your performance.


Yeah I know but what I’m saying is if you can shoot 100 targets without getting tired, that doesn’t change how accurate you actually are. I don’t see how steroids would help that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tipe (May 19, 2018)

HighwayHunter said:


> Yeah I know but what I’m saying is if you can shoot 100 targets without getting tired, that doesn’t change how accurate you actually are. I don’t see how steroids would help that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


U don't think that good quality practice would get U better.
U can also use drugs for other purposes than direct strength improvement 
Like protect your shoulders when Your practice amount is more than that 100 arrows per day.

If U now shoot 100 arrows per day.. how about those guys who can shoot 200 in same intensity and quality as U can do 100.
Usually it is quality over quantity but when U can have both... wouldn't that help to get U better ?
Yes it would...

I think if there's possibility to improve and same time earn more, people will eventually use something.
That's the risk and that's why it's good to test drugs.

When U put together money, sport where is physical aspect in training you create possibility to improve your results and income with drugs.
I think those ASA prices aren't that but no pro will live with that. They live manufacturer's contingency's and commercial incomes, seminar incomes when they get name etc.
Every sport where is possibility to get good money is also possible ground for drugs. Is that there, don't know... hopefully not.

And somebody did ask about chess drug testing.
Yes there is test also in chess playing and there's drugs to improve there too. -> https://www.inverse.com/article/27054-chess-performance-enhancing-drugs-doping-vassily-ivanchuk


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

Crometheis said:


> I’m gonna have to listen to that podcast. Drug testing seems like a waste of resources in an archery event. It would be like testing chess players for drugs (is this done?)


I believe there is drug testing in competitive chess.... bridge (cards) as well.


----------



## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Tipe said:


> U don't think that good quality practice would get U better.
> U can also use drugs for other purposes than direct strength improvement
> Like protect your shoulders when Your practice amount is more than that 100 arrows per day.
> 
> ...


I understand having the energy to shoot 100/130 arrows be quality vs a guy who can shoot 170/200 quality arrows, the guy shooting 200 arrows has an advantage. However I don’t think that steroids would make you that much better. Especially not in open pro. Something like a nerve blocker or alcohol would help more than steroids. Something to calm the nerves and make you relax, IMO would be much more beneficial. Basically if I was going to pick a drug to help me be a better shot, it would be a few beers before a shoot or a beta blocker so I don’t get nervous. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

I do believe ASA is just trying to get in line with the World Archery rules, since WA is the world-wide governing body. Not sure if it has to do with any future hopes of getting 3D added into the Olympics, to attract some WA shooters that don't shoot ASA or what....


----------



## 07Kingpin (May 10, 2019)

Honest question- how could testing possibly be a bad thing? If you are on a certain prescribed drug show your doctor's note.

Cost of testing is no different than any field, we all pay to play.


----------



## nestly (Apr 19, 2015)

07Kingpin said:


> Honest question- how could testing possibly be a bad thing? If you are on a certain prescribed drug show your doctor's note.
> 
> Cost of testing is no different than any field, we all pay to play.


Nobody that's actually subject to testing is opposed to it, it's those who aren't subject to it, and therefore are uninformed that usually complain about it, but for the record, a "doctors note" is worthless. Only exemptions issued by the World Anti Doping Agency are acceptable.


----------



## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

07Kingpin said:


> Honest question- how could testing possibly be a bad thing? If you are on a certain prescribed drug show your doctor's note.
> 
> Cost of testing is no different than any field, we all pay to play.


It’s only a bad thing if it lowers payouts. If it doesn’t, then no problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

Maybe I should do a pharmacology class here on AT. This thread is full of misinformation. I digress


----------



## 07Kingpin (May 10, 2019)

Maybe you should- can't hurt. 

I know basically nothing about the subject, hence my question. 

What are we missing?


----------



## Tmaziarz20 (Jun 27, 2015)

Redmagnum said:


> What exactly are they going to be testing for? I'm a FNG to the game so just wondering what would be a performance enhancing drug for 3D shooting?


Many people take pills for nevious or anxiety. If you get nervios at a shoot. You could take a pill to calm you down.


----------



## Laars (Apr 26, 2015)

They are testing for anything that will allow you to relax....... Beta Blockers lower your blood pressure, and slow your heart down. Marijuana and hashish. A.D.H.D. Meds. 

Gee, I wonder why a sport that you have to hold steady would want to outlaw these kind of drugs. Bob Eyler had his Vegas win pulled last year for testing positive. Testing is a good thing.


----------



## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Laars said:


> They are testing for anything that will allow you to relax....... Beta Blockers lower your blood pressure, and slow your heart down. Marijuana and hashish. A.D.H.D. Meds.
> 
> Gee, I wonder why a sport that you have to hold steady would want to outlaw these kind of drugs. Bob Eyler had his Vegas win pulled last year for testing positive. Testing is a good thing.


My part of the argument was never against testing as a whole, it was testing for steroids. I agree that beta blockers and things that help shut out your nerves would be a huge advantage. I don’t think steroids would be much help. I still think testing shouldn’t take away from archers winnings. Archery tournaments themselves hardly pay out as is. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kylakebuck (Aug 20, 2019)

Does anyone know if anyone has been tested this year?


----------



## shortside73 (Dec 19, 2017)

What kinds of drugs? What a crazy world we live in....


----------



## Pintail76 (Oct 6, 2017)

Never thought about PEDs for archery. If there is a drug that can fix my eye sight, stabilize my arm and help judge distances let me know. Don't know why you'd need PEDs for standing and shooting 90 arrows a day or walking the 3D course but I guess may that's why I'm still an armature.


----------



## forestechos (Oct 1, 2019)

WOW didn't know they were that serious.


----------



## clintbc13 (Dec 16, 2009)

im ok with it


----------

