# Pros & Cons (one piece vs takedown and elevated rest vs shelf)



## Damn True (May 22, 2014)

Greetings,

Before I posit the questions a bit of background....

I've lurked here for a while but registered today to seek a bit of advice on some equipment upgrades. I'm 44 and a fairly inexperienced archer. I hunted with a compound a bit in the early 90's but got away from it. Still rifle hunted in the interim though. 

After last years deer season I decided to purchase a bow. Mainly to fool around with in the back yard but I figured that if I got reliably accurate enough with it I could extend my deer season a bit by hunting the Archery season while scouting ahead of the rifle opener.

At any rate, I purchased a Samick Sage (shocker) and have been having a ball with it. My skill is progressing nicely which has helped keep me motivated to keep improving.

I'm a bit of gear **** though and I tend to want to have something a bit better than the gear I currently possess. So I'm thinking of upgrading my bow.

I dig the simple aesthetic of a one piece recurve, but can appreciate as well the tech in a modern ILF setup too and with that, the questions....

First, outside of the obvious difference in ease of storage and portability what are the pros and cons of a one piece bow (such as a Bear Super Grizzly) versus a modern ILF type takedown bow (such as a Hoyt Game Master or Tradtech Titan or Apex)? Are there benefits to accuracy? Durability? Is one more forgiving than the other? 

I'm currently shooting off of a plastic stick on elevated rest (unbranded, but it looks like the Hoyt branded item). I understand that elevated rests necessitate the use of vanes instead of feather fletching but what are the pro's and con's of using a rest versus shooting off of a shelf?

Thanks in advance!


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Obviously the ILF bow will offer adjustments in the limbs for tiller, easily changed limbs and limbs from many manufacturers, and most likely a tunable rest (plunger). If you are a serious target shooter there's no reason to go any other way unless you want to compete in the longbow divisions. From purely a target/precision standpoint the ILF wins hands down, at least in my opinion. I should add that I don't own an ILF bow but wouldn't be surprised if there's one in my future, probably one of the racy Italian models.

I can't think of any real advantage of a one-piece recurve over an ILF bow except for aesthetics, and in that area it's personal preference. There are some pretty attractive ILF risers made, and some of them are even wood. Still, my favorite bows are custom one-piece recurves (or TD recurves); I love the beauty of wood and appreciate the craftsmanship that went into them. I"m a hunter and recreational shooter so the technical advantages if the ILF bows are something I'm willing to give up. Of course if you want a beautiful exotic wood ILF bow they are available too.

Any well made bow will shoot better than you. Will the adjustments of the ILF system improve your accuracy? It's hard to tell but you don't see many champion 3D or indoor shooters with fancy wood recurves, they are pretty much ILF all the way.

You don't _have_ to use vanes off an elevated rest. You don't _have_ to use feathers off the shelf but your life will be easier if you do. I shoot off the shelf because all of my bows are made that way. Once again, you don't see many serious target shooters shooting off the shelf, that should tell you something. Shooting off the shelf works fine for my needs and the simplicity is attractive in a hunting bow.



Make it easy on yourself, buy one of each...:wink:


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## 257 roberts (Jul 31, 2006)

I'm not going to be much help to you cause I'm new too, I have a Sage also and was shooting off a rest and was happy with the results but then I bought a vintage 1 pc Darton recurve and it was set up with a nice rug/plate so I shot it off the shelf and really liked it, sooooo I set my Sage up the same way and that's how I'm shooting and I very much like the results that I'm getting.. I'm shooting carbon/ feather arrows.. one last thought, buy the book "Shooting the Stick Bow" best investment you could make it will answer all the questions you have regarding traditional archery


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

Easykeeper said:


> I can't think of any real advantage of a one-piece recurve over an ILF bow except for aesthetics ...


I like the lighter weight of the one-piece, which can be significant. Advantage? Well, shooting wise, it's perhaps a durned disadvantage! But, within the spirit of what was presented by Easykeeper in another thread concerning tuning, I'm deliberately "lazy" in this archery matter, and quite enjoy the easy tote-to-hoist nature of these lighter bows.


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## bowhuntrmaniac (Jan 22, 2012)

I will never regret getting a Titan I (17") riser and ILF limbs. LOVE IT!! If you want a wood riser, I can't say enough about my Dryad Epic (17" ILF) riser . It is beautiful. With ILF, you can get limbs from several manufacturers at $70- to over $1,000. You can "tune " it to shoot with "3 under" or "split" .BTW I set them both up to shoot off the shelf with the Wal-Mart furniture pads.


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## Damn True (May 22, 2014)

The sense I get is that the ILF is a platform on which one can create a bow that is perfectly suited to their unique style, form idiosyncrasies etc where a one piece is buying a bow that though it can be tuned a bit depends on the archer to adapt to in order to get the most of?

If that is the case I wonder, if someone (like myself) is still firmly in the developmental stages would the ILF be throwing too many variables into the mix?


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## bowhuntrmaniac (Jan 22, 2012)

I was in the same boat as you Damn, when I switched to recurve from compound (30+ years, although shooting with fingers all that time). After some research, ILF was not that hard to figure out and tune to my personal needs. John Wert at Lancaster (TradTech) is a great help, and is a guru at ILF stuff.


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## nrc (May 25, 2014)

I went with a take down (longbow) so I could get on and off of large or small airplanes with it. Vince looks like he isn't taking orders anymore, but you can see his hinges here - there are a few other bowyers using similar ones.

http://www.mohawkbows.com/bows.html

Have fun.


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## Damn True (May 22, 2014)

So...in upgrading from a Sage, what might I expect in terms of the shooting experience and performance from:

Tradtech Apex
Bear Super Grizzly


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## Damn True (May 22, 2014)

Dumb question or did it just get missed?


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

You can expect better fit and finish - the riser will be a little more dense and heavier on the Apex. A Super Grizzly will be a bit shorter and lighter - nicely finished if not a bit expensive for what your getting. I have been through a pile of bows and have pretty much decided that a 40# Hoyt Dorado is what I was looking for all along. It has decent length for my 28" draw at 60" AMO - shoots pretty quick, very quiet and dead in the hand with GT 15/35's. I also have a 4 arrow quiver, sling and short stabilizer on it. Oh and I shoot 3) 4" feathers off of a T-300 rest and Shorty plunger.


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## Damn True (May 22, 2014)

That is the kind of shooting impression I was looking for. 

The Hoyt ILF bows are an undeniably attractive package. If I'm honest though, I worry that I might be less than pleased with the aesthetics of the modern metallic riser vs an all wood ILF riser or all wood bow even though the mechanics are essentially the same.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

FWIW the Dorado is not ILF, but ILF limbs can easily be modified to work on them. I'm considering selling one of mine (I have 2) let me know if your interested.

Pros - for a take down are portability and the ability to change limbs, much cheaper to mail if you sell it. Cons - there has to be some type of connection, some are ugly, some pretty nice - they are very expensive to ship. 

Pros - for a rest are ease of tuning, easier on fletching, durability. Cons - they don't look trad to some guys, can be a pain to tune, maybe slightly less forgiving.


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## Zurf (Mar 8, 2014)

In my novice opinion - 
Pros for one piece: 1. Easy peasy. Put on the string and shoot. Or if you hang it right, just leave the string on. Pick up the bow, go to the range, shoot. Done. Awesome. 2. They're pretty. 3. They're light, which is both an advantage and a disadvantage. EAsier to carry, but also easier to fidget accidentally while drawn. 

Pros for take down: 1. Breakdown for easy storage and transport. 2. You look like a stud at the range. 3. Easy to change the limbs to softer, longer, shorter, harder. 4. Accessories and familiarity of feel and appearance stay with the riser. 4. Some are adjustable. 

Cons for one piece: 1. A bit of a drag to transport. 2. That's it. It's what you've got. If you want a shorter, or stronger, or longer, or weaker bow, you're buying another bow (on the other hand, you get to buy another bow!). 

Cons for takedown: I don't really know what they are. There's probably some. 

Pros for shelf: 1. It's there, may as well use it. 2. There's hardly anything that can go wrong. 

Pros for elevated: 1. They're cool. 2. Using vaned arrows is a reasonable option. 3. The plunger makes a HUGE difference. 

Cons for shelf: 1. The physics thing. There's a lot more contact areas that can alter the pitch of the arrow without really even realizing it. 

Cons for elevated: 1. They can take a lot of adjusting. 2. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, depending on the kind you get. 3. They break. 4. They're a lot more expensive than a piece of wool felt. 

- Zurf


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## VA. Bowbender (Mar 31, 2006)

Just my 2 cents here but unless you plan on traveling with your bow I see no real big advantage to a takedown. I have 3 Bear TD bows that I rarely breakdown ever and one Pittsley Predator that I have rarely broken down of my 16 +- bows. I don't shoot off an elevated rest, I shoot off the shelf. I believe that for hunting purposes a shelf is a better option. But that's just me. I am quite partial to wood bows and they shoot as well as any other bow in the right hands.


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## Damn True (May 22, 2014)

centershot said:


> FWIW the Dorado is not ILF, but ILF limbs can easily be modified to work on them. I'm considering selling one of mine (I have 2) let me know if your interested.
> 
> Pros - for a take down are portability and the ability to change limbs, much cheaper to mail if you sell it. Cons - there has to be some type of connection, some are ugly, some pretty nice - they are very expensive to ship.
> 
> Pros - for a rest are ease of tuning, easier on fletching, durability. Cons - they don't look trad to some guys, can be a pain to tune, maybe slightly less forgiving.


Oh, my bad. I saw the Dorado categorized in Tradtech's website with the other ILF bows and assumed it was as well.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

All it take to make a Dorado work with ILF is a bronze bushing from Home Depot and a little time. About $5 and 5-10 minutes - press out the ILF button and install the bronze bushings instead.


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