# Factors controlling "float"



## Nick01 (Sep 7, 2009)

If your shooting a D loop around 3/4" try to shorten it between 1/2" and 5/8". This worked well for me but your draw length needs to be correct. Too long of a drawlength will make your float never stop. Also verify that your form is good. Draw shoulder down and release hand not to high. No higher then your ear. Don't be afraid to make minor adjustments to your drawlength. One twist in or out of your string at a time. Peep height can also slow down the float. Hope this helps. Nick.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

much that stability has it's basis in the bow arm's shoulder. think down and back much like standing at attention. it puts the entire arm under tension for stability under the stress of aiming a bow.


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## Bazzer (Jun 12, 2007)

I was shooting this evening and my draw length seems ok, but I did notice that I am leaning back a little from the waist. Is this correct form?


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

Bazzer said:


> I was shooting this evening and my draw length seems ok, but I did notice that I am leaning back a little from the waist. Is this correct form?


Here's my take on "Correct Form". Start from the classic archer's "T". Shoulders level, release arm in line with the arrow. Fine tune what works for you. The highest ranking archers in the world almost always have some aspect of their form that deviates from "Correct Form" . If leaning back steadies your float, do it. Opening or closing your stance help, do it. As *Nick01* suggested, tinker with draw length before all other all changes. Even what may seem like a trivial change can make a noticeable difference in your float. Periodically reassess, such as taking the weights off your stabs and start adding them back on. As your abilities grow, your technique and bow set up will like benefit from some change as well. There are very few absolutes in archery. Focus on small changes that creates improvement that stays with you.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

I think there are a good number of "absolutes" in archery, people just don't want to accept that there are and comply to them. if this weren't true, we would have thousands of pages of questions with questions asking why people can't shoot as good as they think they should, or why their equipment is doing what it does.


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## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

There are three things that contribute to getting your best float. 

1. Form. I recommend starting with a standard "T" form and using that as an easily repeatable base to start from. Good bone to bone contact so you are not relying on muslces that will change from shot to shot. 

2. Draw length. This is a two parter. Draw length on your bow matters to set up the front half of your body. Then, your d-loop is used to fine tune the back half of the body. You want to be using the right muscles here to hold the bow back at full draw. Using the back muscles will help steady your float. Also, the bone to bone contact and support will be established here. 

3. Is the mental approach. You have to understand you cannot "control" your float. What you can do is take the correct steps to minimize it to what your body is capable of producing. Once you've taken these steps then you need to instill the confidence in yourself that you've done all you can do and study the float pattern to keep a mental reference as to what it looks like. This is used to show any set up errors or flaws when you are shooting. Once the float isn't its normal self, then you need to let down and start over. The other portion of the mental side and the confidence you need to have is to be able to use that confidence to put the pin/dot in the middle and let it just do its thing till the shot goes off. 

These are just very brief overviews of the contributing factors. I have them written fully indepth on my website if you're interested in reading more on them. Also, feel free to pm me if you have any questions. I'll work with you and help you any way I can.


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## Tony Bagnall (Sep 8, 2012)

I was having a a lot of problems over the past few weeks with my float. My wife and I were shooting yesterday and she noticed I was leaning back. It wasnt my draw legnth but a form issue . I was standing with my feet too far apart and shifting too much weight to the back foot. I was having to force the bow down onto the target and if i held too tight on the back wall the bow went up. Feet closer together and this stopped I drew more level and no problems with the float. I wasnt fighting the bow. My feet were a shade over shoulder apart now they are just under and I am back to shooting lke a was a few weeks ago grouping touching arrows at 40 yards ( almost ready for Fl state champonships in August )


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

ron w said:


> I think there are a good number of "absolutes" in archery, people just don't want to accept that there are and comply to them. if this weren't true, we would have thousands of pages of questions with questions asking why people can't shoot as good as they think they should, or why their equipment is doing what it does.


Omg!


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## jwilson48 (Apr 1, 2009)

EPLC said:


> Omg!


Ha ha surprised his comment didn't get more attention


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

ron w said:


> I think there are a good number of "absolutes" in archery, people just don't want to accept that there are and comply to them. if this weren't true, we would have thousands of pages of questions with questions asking why people can't shoot as good as they think they should, or why their equipment is doing what it does.


Maybe it is semantics, and really not looking to pick nits, but what are some of the "absolutes" in archery?


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Praeger said:


> Maybe it is semantics, and really not looking to pick nits, but what are some of the "absolutes" in archery?


Float has been discussed to death in this forum. Foot placement, stance, release arm, bow arm, draw length, anchor, stabilizers, sights and whatever.


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## Praeger (Jan 7, 2011)

SonnyThomas said:


> Float has been discussed to death in this forum. Foot placement, stance, release arm, bow arm, draw length, anchor, stabilizers, sights and whatever.


I wouldn't call those absolutes. Those are all parts of form and equipment, all with a range of positioning, and that is my point. To me, an absolute is when some aspect of the process must be performed a certain way - without exception. 

As for float being discussed to death in this forum, so has everything else. ArcheryTalk would dry up and blow away if a topic was only discussed once.


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

The only absolute I know of in archery is that whatever gets you the best results is what you should do.


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## Rick! (Aug 10, 2008)

Praeger said:


> Maybe it is semantics, and really not looking to pick nits, but what are some of the "absolutes" in archery?


Do an advanced search in this forum on ron w and you will have pages and pages of reading about said absolutes.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Let's not get carried away guys. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Let's focus on what you think is right and why, and not on why someone else is wrong.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

My suggestion to you is to actually take a step back and actually look at your real float, I usually referr to this as your "Natural Float". To do this all you have to do is for a couple weeks simply draw back with no expectations of firing the release and just aim at the spot and study your float and how it looks. Then let down, and reflect about what you just watched and then after a few breaths draw back and try to execute your shot and actually use that float that you saw when you knew you weren't shooting.

I am telling you right now you can't do it, I guarantee you that your execution overlaps your aiming and is connected in more than one way and over the next few months this should be your focus to eliminate all the little things in your shooting and execution that are messing with your float.

I went through this process and in the beginning it was overwealming, mainly because I learned early on that my float was good enough to stay on a 12 ring at 40 yards without leaving the 12 ring when I was just studying my float. The problem was that the moment that I tried to even start executing the release the pin would leave the 12 ring and do all kinds of weird stuff, but after months of training and experimenting I found out exactly what was causing the problems and I eliminated them. 

Most of the articles I have written and my thoughts about hinge shooting all started to come together from this little topic that forced me to take that step back and find out the truth. Right now I can say that I shoot all of my shots with my natural float and that my execution is disconnected from my aiming and that is a wonderful thing.


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

so there are no absolutes,....shoot any draw length you want, and draw weight you feel like shooting, regardless of whether you can handle it or not. keep your bow in any state of tune and use any arrow you feel like, any form is OK as long as you pull the string back and any, or even no anchor is fine, anchor any old place you want to, use any peep height,...it makes no difference, oh, and set you pins anywhere and the arrow will go to the center and twist on any string you want to, they all do the same thing,..... right ?.


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## iceman14 (Jan 25, 2011)

Too much tension in the bow arm, not enough in the back affects my float more than anything.


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## vito9999 (Jun 30, 2009)

iceman14 said:


> Too much tension in the bow arm, not enough in the back affects my float more than anything.


What iceman said.


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## ILOVE3D (Feb 4, 2009)

Absolutes? What do you mean by an "Absolute"? Tonight the sun will go down and it will get dark most of the world, Alaska not so dark, that is an absolute. Reo Wilde's form looks probably a bit too long for what most would recommendation but he shoots fantastic with his form. Ask any question on here and you will more than likely get several different answers. Who is qualified to answer your question without seeing you shoot? You are the only one who can find what works best for you, draw length, foot stance, bow arm bent, bow arm straight, type of release, tuning of bow and tuning of bow to arrow and weight. So many factors it's impossible to find what might be best for you. Like already mentioned, do a search on here and you will have plenty of reading to sort through. After a while you will notice there are a few guys on here that frequently give out good and qualified advice. There are many more that will tell you what works for them but what level of a shooter are they and will it work for you? Good luck finding your best float, accuracy, tuning, release execution or shot execution is not something you will find overnight. A few good books out there as well so you have your work cut out. So far on this thread I will tell you in my opinion listen to what Ron W and Padgett says, they are just a few of the guys on here I have read many posts here on AT and they know what they are talking about. Not saying the others don't but put theirs at the top of your lists. Just my .02


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm going to toss out something and see if anyone else has experience this as a float factor. Target "bale" size. Not the target but the bale itself. 

Here's what I mean by that: I have a Rhinoblock XL, which provides an 18 X 18 inch cross section. I use it for all of my practicing out to 50 meters, and objectively speaking, it's not very big at that distance. I've missed it once, thanks to a weak shot where I crept into the valley. And, to be sure, I've had plenty of close calls.

To my point: I have often noticed that when I get past 35 yards or so, my overall shot changes. I'm less steady and I get stronger in my release hand - and I'm sure the latter aggravates the former. I think the cause is, in the back of my mind, I know it's doesn't require a great deal of error or much of a wind gust to result in a complete miss considering that the block is only 9 inches on either side of centre and some nerves enter the equation as a result. 

At first I thought the small block was good - sort of a "stay in the shot or else" mentality. However, I've discovered that, for me at least, the opposite is true. When I tried a 70 meter target for the first time at a local club, I thought it was neat how large the bale was. It literally looked like a barn door compared with my Rhinoblock  When I came to full draw, I noticed I was completely confident that barring something "special" I'd not miss the bale. What I didn't expect, or really even think about in the moment, was how comfortable and solid I was. My float absolutely improved and my release hand felt essentially the same as if I were blank baling when I didn't have that feeling of potential doom in the back of my mind. After several ends, my groups, while not the gnat size that we read about on AT [haha], were not a great deal bigger than what I'd often get at 50 meters. It was a neat bit of serendipity.

Anyway, I'm not sure if others have experienced this, because I honestly don't recall ever seeing it mentioned, but it's certainly true in my case. I'm curious to hear if others have noticed this.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

Correction to the above: my block is not the XL, so I believe it's 16 x 16, not 18 by 18. Not a big diff, but pointing it out.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

I will absolutely see a difference in float when I don't have a good sight picture. Too much shade on the target, using the wrong scope (the black ring I use indoors won't do as well for me outdoors.... By a long shot).
Not having a clear, easy to see aiming point will destroy my float, as I'm spending more conscious effort into trying to see my aiming point rather than holding on it. 
The shot takes longer, the float gets worse from there.
Not sure if this is having an effect on the Op, but it does have an effect on float for me.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is something that I have been giving to many people and for them it has given a totally different approach to aiming.

Take a look at the target with naked eye and through your binos and visualize your pin on the spot you want to hit.

Now for the cool part, take a mental picture of your pin on the spot. Now when you come to anchor you don't have to search for the perfect spot or search for it, you simply allow your eyes to match what you are seeing to what your mental picture was.


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## panther08 (Jan 7, 2008)

Another little trick I found with help hold better has nothing to do with your bow or form. It's all about food! If you don't have good fuel in the tank how can you except to have the energy to hold good? You need to eat 45 mins before you plan on shooting,you'll be amazed on what a good meal before shooting will do.


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

panther08 said:


> Another little trick I found with help hold better has nothing to do with your bow or form. It's all about food! If you don't have good fuel in the tank how can you except to have the energy to hold good? You need to eat 45 mins before you plan on shooting,you'll be amazed on what a good meal before shooting will do.


And, too much coffee sure doesn't help. One and I'm fine, but I've made the mistake of having a couple of large's during a two hour drive to a shoot. I've never seen it discussed, but I've wondered how many pros either don't consume caffeine or chose to leave it alone during events - with perhaps an advil to avoid a withdrawal headache.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

*Factors controlling &quot;float&quot;*

I know one well known pro has suggested NOT changing your daily routine for a competition. He suggests if you drink coffee, don't skip it the day of the shoot. 
I would probably say maybe load up on more pro ties than normal, but don't go crazy with it.

There is also the shoe debate. And I think it applies as well. If you normally wear athletic shoes, do so when you shoot. Your body gets acclimated and changing to something different may do more harm than good.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Mahly said:


> I know one well known pro has suggested NOT changing your daily routine for a competition. He suggests if you drink coffee, don't skip it the day of the shoot.
> I would probably say maybe load up on more pro ties than normal, but don't go crazy with it.
> 
> There is also the shoe debate. And I think it applies as well. If you normally wear athletic shoes, do so when you shoot. Your body gets acclimated and changing to something different may do more harm than good.


Yes, drink and also eat as you normally do before a event. Long events, plain water or the drink aids cut in half with water. Long events, take something to munch on, those crunch bars are okay, but peanuts or nuts mix, carrots, other veggies and small candy bars that won't give you too much of a sugar boost. Diabetic, I have a normal breakfast, my meds and right before I go out, normally 2 1/2 to 3 on a 40 target course, I'll chew down a frost donut or two or a cinnamon roll. Works, keeps me going very well. Too hot, too long and my sugar gets too low and I've got the shakes. So I've got sugar tablets on hand. Only needed a sugar tablet once in 5 years and I had finished the event before the shakes got me.


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## Bazzer (Jun 12, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies to my original question. I'm fairly old at seventy and very new to target bows. I am strong so 60lbs is no effort for me. I think it's my form that I need to improve in order to control my bow arm. I certainly " punch " the release every now and then, but that's improving .


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## ron w (Jan 5, 2013)

it's kind of ironic. "streangth" doesn't mean all that much as compared to good fitting equipment and the condition of your nervous system, when it comes to controlling float.


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## 00rodney (Feb 9, 2015)

ron w said:


> so there are no absolutes,....shoot any draw length you want, and draw weight you feel like shooting, regardless of whether you can handle it or not. keep your bow in any state of tune and use any arrow you feel like, any form is OK as long as you pull the string back and any, or even no anchor is fine, anchor any old place you want to, use any peep height,...it makes no difference, oh, and set you pins anywhere and the arrow will go to the center and twist on any string you want to, they all do the same thing,..... right ?.


works for me :set1_rolf2:


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