# How would you feel about outlawing umbrellas in 3D?



## Justin17 (May 4, 2006)

The title says it all. I’ve seen two people holding umbrellas for a shooter blocking the wind. Shouldn’t the elements be part of the game?


----------



## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

It is just a damn rule...If they are legal use them if not legal don’t. I don’t understand why people have to always think they need to fix the rules while others seem to think they are not broke!
I will add that when shooting a lens in the scope or in the peep, there are times that without an umbrella there could be a safety issue as you are near shooting blind. I don’t shoot a lens with my open set up and could care less but I am definitely in the minority.


----------



## MtnOak (Feb 7, 2016)

Justin17 said:


> The title says it all. I’ve seen two people holding umbrellas for a shooter blocking the wind. Shouldn’t the elements be part of the game?


Absolutely!! Silliest thing I ever seen, it’s outdoor archery for crying out loud, a man holding an umbrella for another man to block the wind or sun?


----------



## Moxieman (Feb 19, 2020)

I think they should do away with them unless bc of rain


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I vote keep them.


----------



## Phunter (Jan 19, 2020)

i personally feel like it would be a bad idea. im not to the sport but have already had multiple occasions where an umbrella was needed


----------



## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

What would you ***** about next? Binos? Rangefinders? Long stabilizers? Fat shafts? Wheels on the bow? Maybe they should get rid of the bows and use spears. That would be way more manly.


----------



## adam0321 (Jun 10, 2012)

cbrunson said:


> What would you ***** about next? Binos? Rangefinders? Long stabilizers? Fat shafts? Wheels on the bow? Maybe they should get rid of the bows and use spears. That would be way more manly.


We should have to fight before the shoot off. I am obviously joking. I could care less. I think they serve a purpose of giving the crowd the benefit of seeing the highest scores possible. I watch more World Archery events than I do 3D. I have seen one archer shoot in a calm wind and score a 10, while the next archer is hit with a wind and throws it in the 8. Two archers on the same field, at the same time, an umbrella would have mitigated that. However, from the little I know, 3D is the only outdoor event that allows them. You dont see them in WA or field. Like I said, i am indifferent to them. It will take far more than an umbrella for me to be threat to anyone.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

How does it affect you personally? Do you shoot in a class where using umbrellas happens a lot?


----------



## wesweezel (Sep 28, 2014)

I like being able to use an umbrella, but at the same time, what ever the rules are for everyone is what I will follow.


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

wesweezel said:


> I like being able to use an umbrella, but at the same time, what ever the rules are for everyone is what I will follow.


Don't go making sense.


----------



## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

I have an umbrella, but don't carry near as much as I should. My only shots that landed outside the 10 ring this weekend (3 8s and a 5) were because of the angle of the sun in relation to my lens. 

As far as the rule is concerned, it doesn't matter to me... I go to the event and follow their rules.


----------



## trucker3573 (Feb 14, 2010)

It would make men look like men instead of umbrella toting __________. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arrowsmith1 (Aug 15, 2010)

Reason? To get wet in the rain, or miss due to glare, like the baseball player without a cap or glasses? I know lots who even hang a camo one in the tree when it’s pouring. Whatever keeps you competitive and in the game I say. I personally have no desire to have water running down my back and ankles into my boots all day, but to each their own.


----------



## cowdocdvm (Apr 24, 2011)

sagecreek said:


> Don't go making sense.


But then what would AT be?


----------



## Robspartacus (Feb 20, 2017)

I carry an Umbrella in my seat for 3D. If you dont run lens and clarifier the umbrella isn't really that important but in some situations with glass you are completely blind without it. I dont think it takes away from the skill of the shot by having a good vision line. If having an Umbrella is cheating, what about a release instead of fingers? What about glass? What about lights or fiber optics? 

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Smokewaggin (Dec 31, 2019)

Justin17 said:


> The title says it all. I’ve seen two people holding umbrellas for a shooter blocking the wind. Shouldn’t the elements be part of the game?


How does blocking the wind with an umbrella for the shooter help? The wind still affects the arrow after it leaves the umbrella for the other 19-99 yards does it not? I don't shoot 3d, nor have i ever competed in an archery, so I am genuinely curious.


----------



## HighwayHunter (Feb 21, 2018)

Smokewaggin said:


> How does blocking the wind with an umbrella for the shooter help? The wind still affects the arrow after it leaves the umbrella for the other 19-99 yards does it not? I don't shoot 3d, nor have i ever competed in an archery, so I am genuinely curious.


It’s more about blocking sun in your eyes. If you can have an umbrella in the course and use it, but not for blocking the sun, then who will stand around and police the use of umbrellas? Also, if I’m hunting and the sun is in my eyes, I typically do a little quarter spin around the tree in my climber, if we want to relate it to hunting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alanlib (Sep 1, 2011)

Let me think about it....seems like a hassle...less is more just say no.


----------



## eholguin13 (Nov 3, 2006)

Keep them, if others want to "man up" and not use it then so be it. Don't take away the option just cause you do not like it. Same with any other equipment such as long stabilizers, scopes, movable sights, etc. If you want to practice as you hunt then do so. Others may not be there for that, that is why there is so many classes in each organization. I would like to see what classes are represented here by the posts above just out of curiosity.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

eholguin13 said:


> Keep them, if others want to "man up" and not use it then so be it. Don't take away the option just cause you do not like it. Same with any other equipment such as long stabilizers, scopes, movable sights, etc. If you want to practice as you hunt then do so. Others may not be there for that, that is why there is so many classes in each organization. I would like to see what classes are represented here by the posts above just out of curiosity.


Senior Master Known...pro bumbershoots


----------



## eholguin13 (Nov 3, 2006)

Smokewaggin said:


> How does blocking the wind with an umbrella for the shooter help? The wind still affects the arrow after it leaves the umbrella for the other 19-99 yards does it not? I don't shoot 3d, nor have i ever competed in an archery, so I am genuinely curious.


It helps to keep the archer from swaying or being blown off target from the point of origin. Take a laser and hold it on a 40 yard target it is very difficult to even hold it in the 10 with no wind. Now take the laser and try holding it in a 25 mph wind you will see a difference immediate. So it takes some of the movement out of the equation at release, yes the arrow will drift but you can account for some of that. You can not account for a gust on the bow at the time of release.


----------



## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I don't see anyone using umbrellas where I shoot, but when I go to Redding, I see several that do. I always believed that the use of umbrellas is the reason for the 45 minute backup at each target in Redding. In the NFAA Nationals that I attend, it is normal for archers to shade each other with their hats. I used a Podium peep at my last National and was able to see targets in the sun that others needed shading. 

Trying a couple of times to see the target or having gusts of wind move you off the target and then asking someone to take out their umbrella for you takes a lot of time X 4 shooters at the target. Multiply this by 5 or 6 groups and you have a long backup. Pretty soon, a round that takes 1/2 hour by yourself, now takes 5 hours. No I don't like umbrellas no more that I like someone taking forever to look through their binoculars. 20 to 30 seconds should be enough time to find the 14.


----------



## Smokewaggin (Dec 31, 2019)

eholguin13 said:


> Smokewaggin said:
> 
> 
> > How does blocking the wind with an umbrella for the shooter help? The wind still affects the arrow after it leaves the umbrella for the other 19-99 yards does it not? I don't shoot 3d, nor have i ever competed in an archery, so I am genuinely curious.
> ...


Gotcha, makes sense. I'm not a small dude, I could just stand there and help block the wind. No umbrella required!


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

Smokewaggin said:


> Gotcha, makes sense. I'm not a small dude, I could just stand there and help block the wind. No umbrella required!


We do that too. haha


----------



## sagecreek (Jul 15, 2003)

I saw the wind blow an arrow off a guys rest right as he shot and blew his bow up at Texas ASA on the practice bag.


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

I vote keep them. 
Even though we all shoot the same targets the sun is at a very different angle after 3+ hours. Wind can vary significantly from one archer to the next. Simply put the umbrella makes "luck" less of a factor in 3d. I know there is still some "luck" involved such as having to shoot a dark black target first or the last archer in the group having the 12 ring full on short targets BUT umbrellas can help balance the effect the sun or wind has scores over the course of the day.


----------



## ACE430 (May 19, 2006)

Nothing worse then watching and waiting for groups without an umbrella all let down two or three times each because of the sun. The umbrella will speed up shooting more times then it will slow it down.


----------



## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

Justin17 said:


> The title says it all. I’ve seen two people holding umbrellas for a shooter blocking the wind. Shouldn’t the elements be part of the game?



Why don't you just start your own 3D Organization and then you can make all the rules you want. Chances are, you'll be the only one shooting.

I remember years ago clubs outlawing binoculars for 3D. When no one showed up at the next shoot they again allowed binoculars.


----------



## Tacoznbeer (Feb 23, 2020)

At it's best, 3D is a competition where we "simulate" hunting conditions to see who is the best shot on the day. At worst, it's a competition to see who is the best shot on the day with all kinds of stuff on the bow that we would never have on the bow if we are in a stand. Keep the umbrella for all classes other than the hunter/pins classes. While we are at it, give those classes a 20" max stabilizer.


----------



## Targetarcher30 (Feb 5, 2020)

I think it would be a good idea just because the sun would add an extra challenge for looking through your peep


----------



## pottergreg (Mar 20, 2015)

I don't care, I personally don't use one, like to travel light. I use my hat, same as when I hunt. Just how I rolled for the last 60 years


----------



## cbrunson (Oct 25, 2010)

GreggWNY said:


> Why don't you just start your own 3D Organization and then you can make all the rules you want. Chances are, you'll be the only one shooting.
> 
> I remember years ago clubs outlawing binoculars for 3D. When no one showed up at the next shoot they again allowed binoculars.


A lot of truth to this. Even at our little local 3D shoots if they outlaw rangefinders people don’t show up. If they allow them, people come. People want to have fun shooting, not breaking or losing $60-$100 worth of arrows.


----------



## Tacoznbeer (Feb 23, 2020)

cowdocdvm said:


> But then what would AT be?


Ahhh! After 6 years away from the game, it's good to see that AT hasn't changed!


----------



## bardman (Oct 18, 2006)

I answered this on facebook about a year ago. Had to go into witness protection. 

IMO Its an individual sport no assistance during the shot, period.


----------



## Bog43 (Nov 25, 2017)

Umbrellas should stay


----------



## arrowman2317 (Mar 17, 2008)

They are a life saver in certain situations, obviously it is relieving pressure from the shooter, but the arrow will still see the blast of air pressure, the other side is time of day shooting in the sun, obviously if you can see your target all the better. So if you can use an allowed tool to make your shot better wouldn't you?


----------



## tclong03 (Nov 17, 2012)

Definitely.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk


----------



## jp93308 (Apr 26, 2020)

Umbrellas should stay


----------



## string777 (Jun 4, 2020)

I guess I'm too old school. I always thought of 3D from its very beginning as an exhibition of hunting skill with a bow and arrow. It was also a practice tool for hunting - one of the very best. My feeling is that if something doesn't belong in hunting, it doesn't belong in 3D, which includes umbrellas.


----------



## Bourbon Boy (Mar 18, 2013)

cbrunson said:


> What would you ***** about next? Binos? Rangefinders? Long stabilizers? Fat shafts? Wheels on the bow? Maybe they should get rid of the bows and use spears. That would be way more manly.


Don't laugh, but we didn't use binos, rangefinders, long stabilizers, just one stabilizer, 12" or less, back and side bars didn't exist. We had fat arrows, 2512 was about it then, and carbon arrows became the norm after that. Scores for the majority of shooters were about the same as today, we didn't have 11 or 12 rings either. Never, ever , did I see a umbrella, or even a chair.


----------



## nardoclark5 (Jul 6, 2018)

Justin17 said:


> The title says it all. I’ve seen two people holding umbrellas for a shooter blocking the wind. Shouldn’t the elements be part of the game?


I think they should go. When I shoot 3D I don’t have an umbrella so I can be steadier in the wind


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## lowg08 (Jan 15, 2016)

I used one yesterday for the first time. Didn’t ask the guys were just really nice and did it because of the situation. It didn’t help me win or even shoot a 12. So I vote keep them. I’m actually thinking about carrying one myself now


----------



## dink1976 (Aug 3, 2016)

get rid of them and make the course a timed event.


----------



## Milo357 (May 4, 2014)

No. Using them to block the sun is a completely legitimate use of an umbrella. To block the wind is a simple step from that. Chill.


----------



## glennx (Oct 7, 2006)

They are also good when it starts to rain on the course.


----------



## Smithtopher (Jul 6, 2020)

keep the umbrellas in the golf bag, no place for them on a 3D course


----------



## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

I personally don't carry an umbrella... but, I'm happy someone in my group had one this weekend.... The sun blasting through the trees directly on the back side of my lens would've made it very difficult to shoot safely....

I say if umbrella's are not prohibited in the rule book, then use them to your hearts content....


----------



## Mdawgpound91 (Aug 24, 2019)

Never seen it used for wind. I always use it for sun blocking more than anything because there are times in 3D where I am literally shooting blind. At my last shoot they had a javelina in some real thick stuff so it was extremely shaded, throw in the fact that the stick for the shot was being beaten by the sun and that equation literally gives me no sight picture to shoot at with a smaller peep housing. Had my buddy block the sun with his hat and I was able to score an 11...without that hat, I may have hit the tree next to it. If we were talking about true hunting, that's different obviously! But we are shooting targets so why not keep them so we can truly shoot our best score. It doesn't add in my form being any better or any advantage in that sense so I say for sure keep it.


----------



## GreggWNY (Sep 6, 2002)

A better question would be... why do people always want to make changes to long established practices such as umbrellas? It's target archery, not bow hunting. It's also a form of good sportsmanship, helping your competitor to see the target better or block the wind for him. No different than when I would tell someone in my group that if they shoot just left of my arrow they'd be in the 12.


----------



## horsehands (Jul 25, 2012)

OP, would a parasol be ok?


----------



## henryw (Dec 31, 2019)

i feel the same way about not allowing them but look at it from a different perspective... in 3d shoots the course set up is a big factor, do you want to make the course crew go and change the course when the sun changes on the targets.. with the umbrella it just helps the folks through the time of the shoot stay somewhat even..... when you hunt you can change locations as per the sun, on a 3d shoot you cannot


----------



## ComicRelief365 (Jul 10, 2020)

"If the weather is safe enough to shoot in, it's safe enough to shoot in without an umbrella."


----------



## Hardpine (Jun 7, 2020)

Gotta agree with ComicRelief on that one.


----------



## brettmuller (May 16, 2020)

Comic relief with the bomb 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnetzel (Apr 23, 2009)

Most of the time I don't ever use a umbrella...or even bring one to the 3d course. I have brought one when there was possible rain predicted or sever high winds. I usually block sun in the eyes with a ball cap, for gusty winds having and using a umbrella really helps you keep your bow under control. No one is forcing you to use a umbrella. If you don't want to do that, guess what...you don't have to.


----------



## 1/2 Bubble Off (Dec 29, 2016)

If you want to shoot an event where Umbrella's aren't allowed, shoot the OPA....

The way I see it, most folks either "don't care" or "strongly support" umbrella use on the course.... I don't suspect this rule will change anytime soon.


----------



## RX3SHOOTER (Jul 3, 2020)

What does it matter


----------



## LilBit90 (Oct 29, 2019)

I don't shoot 3d competitively and find this conversation interesting. Just giving an "outsider" perspective. I can see both sides of this debate but I kind of like the idea of not having umbrellas so that everyone is fighting the elements. Ultimately I think it is up to the organization putting on the tournament. Kind of funny to see people get worked up over a hypothetical question.


----------



## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

It certainly ruins Tv coverage of some events. Completely.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

Smokewaggin said:


> How does blocking the wind with an umbrella for the shooter help? The wind still affects the arrow after it leaves the umbrella for the other 19-99 yards does it not? I don't shoot 3d, nor have i ever competed in an archery, so I am genuinely curious.


You'd be surprised at how much the wind can move your bow when you're at full draw, especially if you're running a long stab. Check out the video from Pipestem this year. https://youtu.be/BiZGTjucspQ


----------



## farscapesg1 (Sep 30, 2019)

It seems like most of our 3D shoots are all back in the woods so wind doesn't ever come into play and they are used solely to block the glare on sights. With that said.. it makes sense to me to allow them and "level" the playing field so that the people shooting at 8:30 AM in the shade have the same advantage at the shooting stake as those shooting at 1:00 PM. I look at it like track.. is it an even playing field if one 200M runner is racing in the sun.. and another is racing in a downpour?

Granted, I'm just out there for fun shooting barebow.. I don't really care about sun glare. My daughter shooting a recurve with a sight.. she's had someone hold an umbrella for her a couple times. I think we've used an umbrella more often to reach up and hold a branch out of the way at the stake than for shade... because most courses have had at least one shot where they didn't take 68"+ bows into consideration when clearing the lanes.


----------



## hedcase111 (Jan 3, 2014)

cbrunson said:


> What would you *** about next? Binos? Rangefinders? Long stabilizers? Fat shafts? Wheels on the bow? Maybe they should get rid of the bows and use spears. That would be way more manly.


Respectfully, I think you are way off base. It's an individual sport, not a ream sport. You wanna tie an umbrella to your riser? Go ahead. You want someone to hold it for you? Nit a chance. Someone holding an umbrella for you is no different than one guy holding the bow, one guy drawing the bow, and another guy punching that release. 

This isnt NASCAR.....there are no pit crews. Get real, bud.


----------



## IBBW (Mar 29, 2005)

So using your hat to block the glare for a shooter gotta go too? Chairs? Bug spray? Hats? Eye glasses? Sunscreen? Can't we all just get along?


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

IBBW said:


> So using your hat to block the glare for a shooter gotta go too? Chairs? Bug spray? Hats? Eye glasses? Sunscreen? Can't we all just get along?


Apparently not.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

dink1976 said:


> get rid of them and make the course a timed event.


And include hurdles between targets.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

1/2 Bubble Off said:


> If you want to shoot an event where Umbrella's aren't allowed, shoot the OPA....
> 
> The way I see it, most folks either "don't care" or "strongly support" umbrella use on the course.... I don't suspect this rule will change anytime soon.


I'm pretty sure they were using them in the shootdown.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

carlosii said:


> I'm pretty sure they were using them in the shootdown.


My bad. That was the IBO at Pipestem.


----------



## knarrly (Dec 21, 2004)

I just wish 3d rules would state that no one not shooting would be allowed at the shooting stakes, like at world archery competitions.

Sad when golfers are tougher about weather than archers........


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

knarrly said:


> I just wish 3d rules would state that no one not shooting would be allowed at the shooting stakes, like at world archery competitions.
> 
> Sad when golfers are tougher about weather than archers........


I've shot in heavier rains than I've played golf in.


----------



## Buglingbulls (Oct 9, 2020)

This whole umbrella thing just surprises me. If it wouldn’t be used in hunting then why use them in a hunting simulated experience? I get trying to get the best scores, but it doesn’t seem like it would make much of a difference on the shot. If you can account for the wind effect on the arrow then you can account for its effect on the shooter.

Umbrellas are good for a rainy day lol, but again if I wouldn’t have it in the woods while tracking an animal then why for 3D. If you want to see who gets the best shot unaffected by the elements then isn’t that what indoor ranges are for? Just my feelings.


----------



## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

I don't think the ASA shoots, and in part the IBO shoots, are considered by the shooters as "hunting simulations". They are target archery.


----------

