# Barebow: Share your aiming method for 90 M



## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Now that the poll shows that there are at least 14 of us barebow shooters on the forum (more considering that not all barebow shooters have responded to the poll), please share what you do to get 90 meters.

After a significant amount of work putting together an outdoor setup that would allow me to shoot the longer distances, this is what I end up doing:

Hold split finger
Anchor under chin
Draw back centering the shelf on the target and the string just inside the arrow tip
Bend at the waist and raise the bow until the shelf is on top of the target bale (a few inches above the one ring).
Release

This shot is completely blind since my hand and bow obscure the target.

I use 36 lb Border CXB limbs, 31 inch draw length, ACE 430 full length arrows with 90 grain points. I have a couple of sets of 40 lb limbs that I can try but I want to avoid excessive wear and tear on my joints. Besides, it might take all the fun out of the shot.


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

I am all right to a certain extent as long as Camalback Mountain doesn't move. I've discovered a point of aim on the mountain side, which is about three miles away. Get me outside of that venue and it become launch and pray. Two out of six is really good. I use a hoyt nexus pulling 40#, and 68" overall length. I hate full FITAs, but the state championship is a full FITA, but soon to change to 70 meters, and there I can do much better.


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## pilotmill (Dec 10, 2008)

*90 m*

I am shooting 42 at the fingers with 40 limbs, I draw just shy of 28". I use the split fingers and aim the arrow tip just above the target, looking for something behind that I can use as an aim point. I have also tried the same with my knuckle of my bow hand somewhere to the left of the target and slightly above center. Like everyone, its basic blind shooting, well at least no target panic..lol. Gar.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Hank,

It's been a while since I shot the 90m part of a FITA but the last time I did, with the set up I was using, the POA was about 1/4 of the Whitetail mat above the top. I was shooting a 70" recurve that pulled 43# at my 32.75" draw. Arrows were Easton ACE 370s with 120g points.

Dave


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## Floxter (Sep 13, 2002)

Using a 3 under hold with the index finger in the corner of my mouth, I am point on at the top of the whitetail butt at 90M aiming off the shelf. I'm shooting 39# @ 28" with Redline 690s and 70gr nibbs, 2.25" flex-fletch vanes.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

There has to be more of you that are shooting 90 M barebow. If not, how about the 80 M field shot?


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## rpdjr45 (Jul 28, 2007)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> There has to be more of you that are shooting 90 M barebow. If not, how about the 80 M field shot?


Oh, I can shoot it. Just not very accurately, nor very often. The 80, 70 ,60,50 field walk ups are all right, and only one is a long shot. I laugh and sing when I hit it, and I laugh and cry when I miss and have to look for the arrow.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> ...how about the 80 M field shot?


Minor point but it's 80 yards, not meters.

I suspect there are fewer barebow recurves competing than you think. It is hard to work up much enthusiasm when there is so little competition. Winning when you only compete against yourself doesn't appeal to many.

Dave


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## Str8 Shooter (Oct 15, 2005)

I haven't tried shooting out to 90M yet. I'd like to but I haven't got anywhere locally to do it.

I am shooting in my first field shoot next weekend. I've spent the last couple weeks figuring out my holds at the longer distances. I'm shooting a Hoyt Excel riser, 54# Border TXB limbs, CenterRest Flipper, CX Terminator Selects w/ Blazers and 75 gr. tips. (385 grs. total). Three under with the index finger anchored up against my cheekbone. I have a 65 yard point on. At 70 I line the wire on my rest a foot below the bullseye, 80 I hold the wire about 1.5 ft. above the bull. 

I bet if I lowered my anchor to put the index finger at the corner of my mouth my point on would be out past 85-90 yards. I messed around with it and hit high at 80. But, no facewalking in the Trad class and my short range holds are better with the higher anchor so I quit messing with different anchors.


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## mholz (Sep 7, 2005)

*90 m*

I use split finger under my chin ( no ledge ). Aim bottom of blue ring. When I practice I'm pretty good, when I don't, not so much.

Rock on barebow brethren.


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

As someone else mentioned - I use a knuckle. 

I sight down the center by first aligning the tip with/string the middle of the target and bend at the waist up until my knuckle reaches the correct point. Used to be my third knuckle even at the bull. I used to use parts of our target butts and different limbs on trees but then I went to a traditional 3-d tournament that had a long shot game and, well, without dark spot on the ground or the tree limb to hold on I was kinda lost and at that time 50-60 yards wasn't *that*far a shot 

I changed my setup recently and haven't needed a shot past 40 yet (mostly playing at 3-d but I normally shoot the hunter class compound stakes for the heck of it). My point on moved 8 yards so I'm not really looking forward to the arrow chasing to find my hold point for 80 yards yet (do not shoot FITA).


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I will have to go out this weekend and check out the knuckle approach. I am not sure if it will work for me since my hand and riser block the target face. I am up to trying anything to beat the 90 M beast. 

My currrent under chin anchor is really an on the chin bone anchor. I am going to work on a true under chin anchor like the Oly folks use to get a few more meters (I used to anchor under the chin when I was an instinctive shooter). I think it will also help my 50 M shot where I currently anchor on the chin bone upper black on the target.

It is amazing that 70 M is very shootable but add that extra 20 and everything changes. But that is why I like the 90 M shot so much.


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## strcpy (Dec 13, 2003)

Hank D Thoreau said:


> My currrent under chin anchor is really an on the chin bone anchor. I am going to work on a true under chin anchor like the Oly folks use to get a few more meters (I used to anchor under the chin when I was an instinctive shooter). I think it will also help my 50 M shot where I currently anchor on the chin bone upper black on the target.


I've never really been able to shoot the under the chin thing barebow - I anchor in the corner of my mouth. Yea yea, sue me, that description isn't that good as the corner of your mouth isn't a truly distinct spot. I use other points too, but ultimately that is a major part of it. For my Oly Bow shooting I do the whole under the chin thing though.



> It is amazing that 70 M is very shootable but add that extra 20 and everything changes. But that is why I like the 90 M shot so much.


Well, to be fair I'm shooting NFAA which is max 80 yards (~73 meters) so I do not know how well it will translate. For my anchor it would shift to below my knuckles so it wouldn't work for me, however your mileage may vary on that one.

I know from 30 on down I shoot "split vision" (visualize the arrows path as a tube to the target, be aware if the arrow and place it in the tube, and let go - many will argue all day long if that is a point of aim or instinctive - all I can say is it is a very different thought process from point of aim) and do so decent enough. From 30-65 or so I use the point of the arrow to aim on field targets, for 3-d animals I find the transition to be more around 45 yards or so (basically once my point reaches the typical target frame time to use it to aim - 3-d targets are smaller and I find it better to use split-vision until I get a nice easy small multiple of a target body). From 65 on up either a point on my riser or my hand (knuckle) as I start to move off a normal sized target butt for that distance.

Given the FITA yardages and target size I assume some things would change in there. I do know that simply moving from a middle finger to an index finger anchor made a great deal of difference in what yardages I changed. Sadly I also need to shoot "traditional" that allows only a single anchor so no under the chin thing for me (too much gap between the arrow and eye for <20 yards - really for <30 yards for me and most of my "traditional" shots are less than 30). That is too much of a change in anchor for that style to switch around and expect to shoot anywhere close to decent.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Okay, I am not giving up. There are now 28 barebow shooters in the survey and Limbwalker did not even vote -- so that makes 29. I knoooooow that more of you have shot 90 M -- if not in competition then in practice. Come on, share your secret to success or you amusing failures. There are probably recurvers reading this that are amused by the antics necessary for a barebow shooter to make this distance. We need not be ashamed of the fact that we measure success by how many times we hit the target bale.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Can't comment on the 90M yet as I have been slowly working myself out. My 70 meter (77 yard, so almost your 80 yard field shot) is done two under, with the shelf held at the top of the paper on the target. I anchor somewhat low along my chin with the index finger a little lower than my mouth. String blur is along the inside edge of the riser.

I'll be switching to split for the 90 meter shot. One bad thing about long distance barebow shooting is that getting your sight marks can be a bit of a crap shoot, especially when switching anchors or holds.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

SBills said:


> One bad thing about long distance barebow shooting is that getting your sight marks can be a bit of a crap shoot, especially when switching anchors or holds.


I broke two ACE's getting my aiming method worked out from 30 to 90 M. You never quite know how far the arrow will go when you make multiple changes to anchor and site mark. Now I am dialed in so at least I know I am going to hit the bale.

Everything was pretty linear out to 60 M.

String walk
One finger width below arrow: 20M
Half finger width below arrow: 30M
Three under: 40M
Two under (split finger): 60 M
50 M: Oops, have to change anchor for 50 M since I cannot do one and a half under. Change to low chin bone anchor three under top of target.
70 M: Split finger top of bale
90 M: See beginning of thread.

SBills: I thought the Bernardini Luxor came with advanced electronic, wire guided, radar enabled, guidance capability.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Hank, 

I've not had a reason to try 90M barebow yet. So I don't know. My 70M barebow method is split fingered, corner of my mouth anchor and point on the gold. Only reason I know this is because I shoot my fita barebow during my archery demonstrations and occasionally shoot balloons for the kids like this. But I would guess that at 90M, I would be like you - split fingered, anchor on jawline and probably point on from there. But not sure.

John.


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## gitnbetr (Jan 17, 2007)

*n*

about 48# on my fingers, 72" bow, 1/4 inch short of full length ACE's with 100 gr points, I switch to split finger, index finger on eye tooth, hold point at the top of the gold. Haven't been shooting much lately, but this worked pretty well.


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## Southern Boy (Sep 4, 2008)

shoot high and hope i hear a "THUMP"


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## fitzjo1 (Apr 23, 2009)

I have a fairly light bow (40# at 33") and 500 grain arrows. So, my point-on range is much closer than 90m. I draw the arrow at a level attitude, align it horizontally and bend back at the waist. Since the target is completely blocked at the correct attitude, I sight with my "other" eye and use my knuckles as the reference point.

I can't say how I do relative to a 120cm target, since I'm normally shooting in an SCA-style clout setup. Most of the time, I can't even see exactly where the arrow hits without bino's. I just tell the kids to be quiet and hoot when I hear a "thump"!

Jon


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## Borja1300 (Oct 12, 2007)

In the USA you shoot 90 meters in barebow? :0

Amazing! 

In Spain I think the far distance are 30 meters xD


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## Dukedando (Aug 28, 2019)

Hi Guys, WoW I had to dig deep back in the archives for this one! Now it’s 10 years on I was hoping to update this feed in the hopes that you have all mastered the 90 Meters or at the very least learnt some techniques you may want to divulge?

Abit about me, I’ve only been shooting 16 months but nothing have ever come so natural to me. I was taught barebow and I have made great strides in a short period of time. Got my Bowmen within 3 months, and after a full year of outdoor target shooting in the UK I got my Master bowmen and I’m #8 in the UK rankings.

This may come across as cocky and arrogant but I don’t mean it to be, I have worked hard for it but now comes the really hard part. Grand Master Bowmen and pushing for the top spots.

Why tell you all this? I think if I could improve my long distance shooting this will elevate me to the next level. So I would appreciate any advice you have, especially from Hank D, from what I’ve read you talk a lot of sense. 

Current set up

25” Gillo G2 rister, #37 RCX Limbs #41 on the fingers. 30.5 Draw, A/C/C Arrows.

Finger in the corner of the mouth, Tip of arrow top of the boss.

My thoughts

Changing arrows to bring my aim down?!

String blur advice?! 

Bjorn drafonflights?

Shooting under the chin for better alinement and consistency?

Any advice would be very much appreciated 

Regards 

Chris


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

VAPs or other light all carbon arrows, those ACCs are very heavy for their spine.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

Wow, can't believe this post has resurfaced. I am even more surprised that it did while I was looking at the FITA forum which I am not on much any longer.

I have moved from FITA target to field so I no longer shoot 90 meters, but....

My optimum bow was a Bernardini Nilo with 35 pound Border HEX6 limbs pulled 32 inches using 344 gr full length Easton ACE 430. My long draw length gave me a lot of extra stored energy that allowed me to put my point on the target face at 90 meters using split finger and my standard index finger in the corner of the mouth anchor. I actually had to switch to heavier 434 gr ACG arrows for 70 meters and in to keep my point out of the grass. This setup allowed me to put my point on the target, but my best scores were actually with HEX5 limbs aiming with my shelf. I like aiming with the shelf for longer shots. It eliminates the double penalty if you creep when elevating, that is, you aim lower since your point creeps forward, and you lose speed.

Today I shoot a bow tailored for FITA field. I have 27 pound extra long Border HEX6 limbs on a 27 inch Bernardini Nilo riser for a 74 inch bow. I have moved to a higher anchor to make the shorter shots easier, now using my middle finger in the corner of my mouth. That gives me a 35 meter point on shooting three under. I stringwalk 30 yards and in, and shoot pick-a-point for everything else. 

It would be fun to return to target shoots. I managed to shoot 30 full FITA's in four years before moving on. There is a really good FITA program where I live.


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I would recommend lighter arrows since you can do that without changing the way you shoot. I managed to build some 292 gr arrows that match my 32 inch draw using Black Eagle XImpact. I like them far better than VAP's. 

Actually, it was Grant that suggested them to me. It was a great idea. Don't know why Grant is back suggesting VAP's for long draw guys. 

The lightest VAP I was able to build was 306 gr and I pulled the arrow to the metal of the point when I shot it. I finally added broadhead extenders which made them 320 gr. 

For long shots I prefer arrows with an aluminum core since missing is not uncommon and they are easier to find with a metal detector. ACE worked well for me, but I had a longer draw length. 

Check out this post if you want to see how dramatic draw length impact stored energy.

https://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5725161


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Because you're drawing 32 and he's 30.5 so that extra 1.5 of shaft isn't critical and VAPs are easier to find overseas plus a bit cheaper.
Otherwise yes I'd recommend the X-impacts


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## Dukedando (Aug 28, 2019)

This is great advice gentlemen, Thank you. 

My initial instincts were to first change my arrows at least now I have a sense of which direction to go in.

I do however change out my limbs for the 2 shorter distances to give me a better reference point. 

#38 limbs, #41 on the fingers, 70m,90m

#34 limbs, #37 on the fingers, 50m,30m

My set up and brace height are exactly the same with no adjustment on the pressure button. My arrows fly perfectly straight at all distances.

My question is will lighter arrows for instance A/C/E’s have a smaller spine?! Leading to arrow rest issues as I would still want to use the A/C/C’s for the shorter distances as they are heavier. 

Chris


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## Hank D Thoreau (Dec 9, 2008)

I shot the same or similar spine for ACE, ACG and ACC. You never know for sure but you have some leeway to change point weight or do a little trimming. I could make them all work with a plunger change.

When I was shooting FITA target I actually changed arrows at 70 meters from ACE to ACG. I did not have to adjust the bow.

I used to shoot two bows in the spring tournaments and then get down to one in the fall. I would spend the summer working on shooting the one bow both split and three under. 

What I found works the best is to shoot a special bow at 30 meters. I was having real difficulty at 30 the last year I was shooting because I was aiming so low and it was causing my form to break down. I had nothing to lock onto.

I went to a lighter bow at 30 and my scores immediately jumped up.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Don’t know about 90M, but my 101 yard shooting NFAA trad is shelf on dot, look where arrow tip is and move shelf to that point. Since in NFAA trad we cannot change anchor or go from 3 under to split finger. In experimenting though if I go split finger and drop anchor to index finger to corner of mouth, I am shelf to plunger stack for 101. My point on change is from 40 yards to 65.


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## Dukedando (Aug 28, 2019)

Thanks Hank

I’ll certainly look into lighter arrows options

I was having the same issue at 30m. I powered my limbs up to get the extra distances which meant at 30m I was aiming at grass. Not ideal but I am more constant shooting 3 under, so even gap shooting I could hit 300+ consistently. I’ve never liked to string walk, but I’ve recently added a double nock point which has helped the arrow release more consistently. I’m string walking slightly (10mm) to bring the arrow tip to the bottom bracing bar of the target. Again not ideal but at least I have something to aim at!

I have found some VAPs this side of the pond, but only one company supply them. 

We look on enviously, You guys seem to have all the best gear. I’m going to Boston in October I was hoping to get a look at a WF25 Xtreme riser. However Archery stores seem quite sparse. 

How is the WF25 riser perceived in the Barebow community?


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

For me I shoot way better scores stringwalking compared to pick a point. It's worth the tuning trade offs.


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## Dukedando (Aug 28, 2019)

Grantmac

Stringwalking, Please teach me how.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Look up Jimmy Blackmon on YouTube, he has an excellent primer.


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## reddogge (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm shooting field 80 yard with 36# Gillo and .600 Entradas. I do need to reduce my feathers from 4" in the future. I can hit it by shooting it split, middle finger anchor, and using the shelf as the point on. I have a 40 yard point on 3 under and a 55 yard point on split. I may have to stringwalk on the short ones though.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

..my present set-up won't reach 90 meters unless I aim at a cloud...and they move!!..he he he!!


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## ArchFinger (Apr 30, 2021)

Dukedando said:


> Hi Guys, WoW I had to dig deep back in the archives for this one! Now it’s 10 years on I was hoping to update this feed in the hopes that you have all mastered the 90 Meters or at the very least learnt some techniques you may want to divulge? Abit about me, I’ve only been shooting 16 months but nothing have ever come so natural to me. I was taught barebow and I have made great strides in a short period of time. Got my Bowmen within 3 months, and after a full year of outdoor target shooting in the UK I got my Master bowmen and I’m #8 in the UK rankings. This may come across as cocky and arrogant but I don’t mean it to be, I have worked hard for it but now comes the really hard part. Grand Master Bowmen and pushing for the top spots. Why tell you all this? I think if I could improve my long distance shooting this will elevate me to the next level. So I would appreciate any advice you have, especially from Hank D, from what I’ve read you talk a lot of sense. Current set up 25” Gillo G2 rister, #37 RCX Limbs #41 on the fingers. 30.5 Draw, A/C/C Arrows. Finger in the corner of the mouth, Tip of arrow top of the boss. My thoughts Changing arrows to bring my aim down?! String blur advice?! Bjorn drafonflights? Shooting under the chin for better alinement and consistency? Any advice would be very much appreciated Regards Chris


 Under the chin!!!!


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## ArchFinger (Apr 30, 2021)

Dukedando said:


> Hi Guys, WoW I had to dig deep back in the archives for this one! Now it’s 10 years on I was hoping to update this feed in the hopes that you have all mastered the 90 Meters or at the very least learnt some techniques you may want to divulge?
> 
> Abit about me, I’ve only been shooting 16 months but nothing have ever come so natural to me. I was taught barebow and I have made great strides in a short period of time. Got my Bowmen within 3 months, and after a full year of outdoor target shooting in the UK I got my Master bowmen and I’m #8 in the UK rankings.
> 
> ...


under the chin!!! only way I can decently get to 70 and 90 with string walking.


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## c_m_shooter (Aug 15, 2018)

ArchFinger said:


> Under the chin!!!!


I shoot longbow division. Not allowed to change anchor. Count up a couple strike plate heights and pick a branch, leaf, or bunch of grass to focus on. SEND IT....


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

Shooting NFAA trad must use same anchor point. My 101 for Redding (90 m is close to that) is put shelf on dot, look at arrow tip, move shelf to that spot.


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## russch (Jun 15, 2002)

I take 5 shots that long all year. 4 at Redding (78,81,88, 101) and the 80 yard walk up at our only Field shoot of the year. Needless to say, I don’t spend much time on these long shots. Short ones score the same! That being said, I was pretty successful on the 88 yard Redding Elk with my Barebow. Align with the do, lower my anchor from my lip to my jaw, use my 70 yard mar. Raise the bow, again, again, yup again! Don’t think I even saw the big backstop. Easton Avance 730’s with 100 grain point. Uukha 34 lb limbs. Almost forgot: Say a little prayer. And Shoot. Worked for me! This Time! See Pic of the best shot anyone has ever completed in the history of the Redding Trail Shoot. ( I am the greatest authority on my opinion!) 

Also, when attending any event I try to educate the registration people of the difference between Traditional and Barebow Recurve classifications. They generally do not want to hear it. Then they place me in the Trad Class. I usually don’t pay the extra money for the competitive class due to lack of competition. 

Shot of the Century:


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## Hikari (May 15, 2021)

Bigger targets help...


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## c_m_shooter (Aug 15, 2018)

rsarns said:


> Shooting NFAA trad must use same anchor point. My 101 for Redding (90 m is close to that) is put shelf on dot, look at arrow tip, move shelf to that spot.


Are you shooting at Waco this weekend? We haven't met yet, but there ain't many of us. I think I have seen your name in the results.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

c_m_shooter said:


> Are you shooting at Waco this weekend? We haven't met yet, but there ain't many of us. I think I have seen your name in the results.


I think we met at indoor, I was talking to Mark Barta. I also saw you at the 900 round at Cinnamon creek?
I am not shooting at Waco. The heat forecasted was just too ridiculous.


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## wdallis22 (2 mo ago)

Thanks again! Advice appreciated!


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