# Where are the professional olympic archery instructors?



## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

Golf has them. Tennis has them. Skiing has them. Where are the professional instructors for olympic recurve? I'm referring to people with some depth of both competitive and teaching experience, knowledgeable and practiced in advancing the skills of individuals willing to do the work (and pay the fees), and who approach sports instruction in a professional manner; people whose living, at least part of the year, depends on the quality of their instruction and who have a track record of successful student advancement. In particular where are the professional instructors qualified to teach above the beginner level? Bless us volunteers, but I want to know where the pros are.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Not enough paying customers in a local commuting area. Travel expenses and time spent traveling prevent us from following the golf/skiing/tennis model.

Every week, I play tennis at a local high school court with a co-worker. Nearly every week, there is a local tennis "pro" that is giving a lesson to one or more young kids. Not sure how they are allowed to accept payment for lessons provided on school courts, but that's another topic for another thread...

Anyway, I would put my archery instruction credentials up against his tennis instruction credentials any day, but there he is, making $50/hour several hours/week just hitting balls across the net to a 10 year old kid in a town of 4,000 people.

Personally, I can't complain as I've had, and have, my opportunities to make money as an instructor, but not as a full time professional. There are very, very, very few places in the U.S. where one can do that and expect to stay in business for very long at all. 

Nearly all archery instructors who charge, are doing it as a side business, as a retirement business (my plan), or part-time on the weekends or evenings. Many, many more are donating 80-90% of thier time to run JOAD programs, etc.

USArchery could do more to promote "teaching professionals" the way the PGA and USTA does, and we may get there some day, but not yet. Maybe by the time I retire? Please?  ha, ha. But even then, I'd have to live closer to a major metro area, and I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze to me.


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## agillator (Sep 11, 2011)

I would like to see a summer camp for young archers who wish to seriously pursue oly recurve. That could also be a way to support professionalism among instructors— Rather than depending on potentially sparse regular paying interest in a particular local area the archers could come to the instructors. I'd like to see a 4-7 week camp where young archers learn to train, develop good habits, get teaching training and certifications (as their age/experience permits), and get teaching experience as their qualifications allow. Learning how to train effectively while still giving top priority to their schooling during the balance of the year would be invaluable. The camp could double as a training ground for professional instructors.

Limbwalker - You'd be perfect to direct an effort like that, but I don't underestimate the complexity and time-and-money-commitment of such an undertaking. I can only say, if you build it my two kids will come.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It's already happening. JDT camps and NTS coaches clinics are scheduled every year. At least for now, that is what's available, and if an instructor wants to be "officially" certified, then they have to go through USArchery and the process they are using now. 

4-7 day camps? Sure. 4-7 week camps? It'll never happen. You're talking about a resident program, and I'm not in the business of telling other people's kids when to do their laundry and how to spend their free time when mom and dad aren't around, thank you.


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## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

agillator said:


> Golf has them. Tennis has them. Skiing has them. Where are the professional instructors for olympic recurve? I'm referring to people with some depth of both competitive and teaching experience, knowledgeable and practiced in advancing the skills of individuals willing to do the work (and pay the fees), and who approach sports instruction in a professional manner; people whose living, at least part of the year, depends on the quality of their instruction and who have a track record of successful student advancement. In particular where are the professional instructors qualified to teach above the beginner level? Bless us volunteers, but I want to know where the pros are.


The PSE archery factory in Tucson, Arizona employs Alexander Kirillov.
Pineapple Archery in Glendale is the facility run by Mel Nichols
I've seen Sheri Rhodes coaching in Chandler, but I don't know her coaching status now that she's the USAA National Events Manager.
Mike Cullumber at Solutions In Archery is working on his coaching resume -- he just got level IV and could help.
Dick Tone and Ed Votruba are teaching an 8 week series of lessons at Archery Headquarters Archery Academy starting around now.

So I'd have to say -- they're here in sunny Arizona


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## massman (Jun 21, 2004)

Actually I do know of 2 young archers from CT, one Olympic recurve, One compound who do work at a camp all summer teaching archery in the New England area. 

Not on the same level as a tennis or golf pro but it is the most I've personally heard of.


Also as far as I know there is Tom Harrington in southeastern area of Massachusetts that last I know was eaking out a living and had his own shop in that area.

There is also one of Art Hall's kids in CT that has a traveling JOAD/Camp program that seem to be successful.

Regards,

Tom


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

In Los Angeles, we have the benefit of Easton, and the fantastic coaches who teach there, including Don Rabska. 

Janet Dykman and Khatuna Lorig have students here. June Montenegro coaches compound and Collegiate teams. 

A bit south at LB Eldorado you can't swing a dead cat without hitting coaches.

They're out there, but I recognize we are blessed in this metropolitan area.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

HikerDave said:


> The PSE archery factory in Tucson, Arizona employs Alexander Kirillov.
> Pineapple Archery in Glendale is the facility run by Mel Nichols
> I've seen Sheri Rhodes coaching in Chandler, but I don't know her coaching status now that she's the USAA National Events Manager.
> Mike Cullumber at Solutions In Archery is working on his coaching resume -- he just got level IV and could help.
> ...


That's a very impressive list of coaches from one state.

Too bad our Texas archers usually come out ahead at Nationals. If they keep trying, maybe they'll get there some day. 

ha, ha. Just kidding of course. 

I still want to have a JOAD "club" or "state" championship event as part of JOAD Nationals. I think it would be a great addition to that event. Like the "duel in the desert" or "duel in the cornfield" but on a National scale. Not only would it promote a "team" concept within our sport, but it would certainly highlight leading programs like the one in AZ.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> I still want to have a JOAD "club" or "state" championship event as part of JOAD Nationals. I think it would be a great addition to that event. Like the "duel in the desert" or "duel in the cornfield" but on a National scale. Not only would it promote a "team" concept within our sport, but it would certainly highlight leading programs like the one in AZ.


That would be a great addition to the JOAD tournament schedule. And a great way to promote JOAD clubs nationwide. 

Chris


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## jocala (Jan 26, 2013)

Easton/Newberry has 5 or 6 coaches on staff.


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## TexARC (Mar 5, 2003)

THe closest our sport has to "professional" coaches are those that have chosen to spend the time, money, and effort to become certified as actual "coaches" in the sport by attending USAA-sponsored classes. You can use the coach locator function on the USArchery.org website (there is a mashup on the TSAA website for TEXAN coaches, btw) to find who the nearest are to you.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

No real HS or college teams and scholarships is a main reason. As I noted in earlier threads, my Country Club supports two full time squash professionals. Why? because schools like Yale and Cornell and Stanford give admissions breaks to good squash players. Not scholarships but a better chance of getting into the school to play a sport that has a very low profile pro tour and pays far less than what most Dartmouth or Princeton graduates expect to make after graduation. But yet there are dozens of kids in clinics and 10-15 whose parents spend thousands a year having coaching for their kids at the club and at tournaments.

Yale has a fast improving archery club. Ariel Gibilaro's (USAT/RA) mother is the coach. Can you imagine what it would do for professional coaches if Debbie Gibilaro was told that the Admissions office would give 3-5 kids every year favorable admissions consideration for archery? In 2006 (when I met with the AD during my 25th reunion) I was told that year Yale had over 20,000 applications for about 2000 acceptances-10% but of the 256 kids coaches listed as their choices more than 200 were accepted. Do the math. 

college scholarships drives much of the revenue for professional coaches. no scholarships or no lucrative pro tour, its hard to support professional coaches.


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## jimmy37210 (Aug 2, 2012)

Dick Tone is far and away the best.
1988 Head Coach
We won the gold with Jay Barrs.

There's tons more to say about Dick, but who can best that for starters !


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

jimmy37210 said:


> Dick Tone is far and away the best.
> 1988 Head Coach
> We won the gold with Jay Barrs.
> 
> There's tons more to say about Dick, but who can best that for starters !


Dick Tone was Jay Bars personal coach in 1988, not the Olympic coach. Sherri Rhodes was the 1988 Olympic coach. Dick Tone was the 1992 Olympic Coach. 

Chris


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Jim C said:


> No real HS or college teams and scholarships is a main reason. As I noted in earlier threads, my Country Club supports two full time squash professionals. Why? because schools like Yale and Cornell and Stanford give admissions breaks to good squash players. Not scholarships but a better chance of getting into the school to play a sport that has a very low profile pro tour and pays far less than what most Dartmouth or Princeton graduates expect to make after graduation. But yet there are dozens of kids in clinics and 10-15 whose parents spend thousands a year having coaching for their kids at the club and at tournaments.
> 
> Yale has a fast improving archery club. Ariel Gibilaro's (USAT/RA) mother is the coach. Can you imagine what it would do for professional coaches if Debbie Gibilaro was told that the Admissions office would give 3-5 kids every year favorable admissions consideration for archery? In 2006 (when I met with the AD during my 25th reunion) I was told that year Yale had over 20,000 applications for about 2000 acceptances-10% but of the 256 kids coaches listed as their choices more than 200 were accepted. Do the math.
> 
> college scholarships drives much of the revenue for professional coaches. no scholarships or no lucrative pro tour, its hard to support professional coaches.


+++++++1 this. 

Few parents are willing to spend hundreds of $$ on coaching and more on equipment for an obscure hobby/activity. But if there's a scholarship or admission preference lure, then here they come with open checkbooks.


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## Jim C (Oct 15, 2002)

lksseven said:


> +++++++1 this.
> 
> Few parents are willing to spend hundreds of $$ on coaching and more on equipment for an obscure hobby/activity. But if there's a scholarship or admission preference lure, then here they come with open checkbooks.


exactly. My son Ian has had some success with archery. He beat every collegiate archer in Ohio in more than a few state shoots-often by big margins. Not much interest from any colleges even when he won big shoots at two of the Universities in the MW that have successful archery programs. . Yet 3 months ago he started shooting international trap. We are lucky, my local gun club has one of the best "bunkers" in the country and their shoots attract people from as far away as Florida. At the last shoot, two top collegiate shooters from the dominant college team in the country were there with one of their coaches. While Ian didn't contend against those two college shooters, he took second in Ohio and had a 24/25 in one round in his first sanctioned competition. the top shooters were telling him he ought to attend their college and the coach said they could use a kid like him so when he was looking for colleges, to give this coach a call since they were looking for kids like him.

The other day, Ian's tennis coach's daughter was playing in the District Tournament at the big Mason ATP facility near my home. I went to watch this girl play. She's one of the better players-was runner up in the district (one fifth of the state) and is nationally ranked. Trust me there were plenty of college coaches watching that tournament. 

her father is a very good coach and makes good money coaching kids but as John Noted when referring to another tennis pro, he's never been the equivalent of an Olympian or a US team member. But then again, kids like his daughter are already at age 15 listed as "blue chip" or "Five star" recruits and places like Stanford and UVa are already keeping an eye on those tennis players.

what would a parent pay in coaching fees if that would give their child a decent chance of just even GETTING INTO STANFORD, or better yet, a full scholarship?


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## arc2x4 (Jun 4, 2007)

http://middletownarchery.com/




Here is one near where I live, they do JOAD, and they also teach compound.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> they do JOAD, and they also teach compound


I know you didn't mean it that way, but I find this a funny, but sad comment at the same time. Every JOAD program should teach compound without ever having to recognize that fact. Barebow too. They are all part of JOAD.


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

My wife teaches for $50.00 an hour and I will BBQ you a hamburger after the lesson


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## itbeso (Jul 6, 2005)

2413gary said:


> My wife teaches for $50.00 an hour and I will BBQ you a hamburger after the lesson


I was going to come down for lessons but I didn't realize they were that expensive. My s.s. check wouldn't go very far. Can I just come down for the hamburgers?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

LOL Ben.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

2413gary said:


> My wife teaches for $50.00 an hour and I will BBQ you a hamburger after the lesson


So I probably should have picked up the check at JoDean's?


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

Sandy said you can have the discount rate but she will leave something out


itbeso said:


> I was going to come down for lessons but I didn't realize they were that expensive. My s.s. check wouldn't go very far. Can I just come down for the hamburgers?


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## 2413gary (Apr 10, 2008)

There will be another time lol


J. Wesbrock said:


> So I probably should have picked up the check at JoDean's?


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## tigersdad (Jun 13, 2009)

Lannie Whiteford, level 4, coaches at Viking Archery in Canyon Lake, Texas. Every Saturday morning she coaches a group of under 18 archers...parents only allowed to watch. This is one of the oldest JOAD clubs around. She coaches adults on Wednesday nights.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

In soccer the main development axis is the select team system, which I'd see as the closest approximation of JOAD. I think if HS and college gravitated to archery it would be more a sign the sport has started to make it -- like when softball, soccer, wrestling, or lacrosse teams get started at a school -- than a boon for archery coaches. HS football may have a monopoly on the sport and its teaching, meaning if you want to be a football player you play for your school. But in soccer, select was where the coaching was, on JV we were coached by a football coach and varsity by a teacher who rolled out the ball and whose input basically consisted of lineups and shouting. That is to say, HS fed off of select. When we had tryouts, the select kids all made the team and the cuts were among the other students who either played rec or had played a few years ago and quit. If there was an archery team most would be led by the JOAD kids and then you might have some surprises from people who pick it up. You got more notoriety for school sports but more recruitment, competition, and quality training out of select. The big barrier there was select team cost.

I see JOAD or the like as remaining the focus because that is where the coaching is, and the year round contact. Unless schools set up A&M style year round programs, something I doubt our UIL would not likely go for in HS, the private coaching will trump HS and probably even some college. We talk about this in soccer, that a 3 month season will never develop soccer players the way year round teams do.


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## Azzurri (Mar 10, 2014)

My two cents at the national tournament (and maybe the state and local ones, not sure how it works for them) to have age group shooting in the main competition (600) and then a JOAD tournament also (300) strikes me as redundant so why not have the 600 as the individual event (which could even be repackaged as the youth or JOAD event) and then the 300 JOAD line be a team event? Individuals could shoot at whatever line like normal shooters but have the team event at particular line(s) like JOAD is often done.

I've also thrown out there before that since there are quite a few teams in many areas why not have JOAD leagues or team tournaments one part of the year, emphasize team, and then maybe another part of the year is individual season. Like, there is team tennis and then individual tennis. There will always be one person shooting each arrow and making their own score, so it will always be a little individual, but it could be team building, leadership, fun, etc. if you have to work with, interact with, and depend on others, regardless of how you shoot. Since in my short time in archery I already see where the teams have their own identities, shirts, etc., I'd think the team thing could easily go further.


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