# SF Premium+ riser vs. W&W inno bows?



## hoytshooter15 (Aug 13, 2012)

Hi guys, so I was just browsing the different bows offered by Sebastian Flute and W&W and I noticed something that I'm very curious about. The SF premium+ riser is surprisingly similar in design to W&W's inno bows. Has anyone shot both and can tell me what major differences are? They're probably similar because of the fact that SF is owned by W&W correct? I don't plan to buy either riser but in what way they are different is bugging me... How are these two risers different? They look darn near identical no?

Links...
http://www.sf-archery.com/index.php/en/risers/premium-riser-detail
http://www.win-archery.com/innomax


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

they do not look the same to me. Different geometry, different asthetic.

and the SF premium looks cast, thick and cheap. The design looks more basic and blocky.

The Inno looks milled, high end and slick, and is carbon. Completely different material. 


Chris


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## rstgyx (Apr 13, 2013)

W&W manufactures SF riser (All products too??).

Maybe to you (I'm assuming beginner or someone who hasn't researched around to purchase risers) they'll look the same to you. Same goes for a complete newbie. Sure they'll have similar features such as a shelf, two plunger holes, limb pocket etc but for someone who has a little bit of experience they'll will be able to tell what each riser instantly. 

An exception I can think of is the W&W Inno CXT vs. Samick Avante. Those two risers are the most similar risers i've never seen that are manufactured by two different companies.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

chrstphr said:


> they do not look the same to me. Different geometry, different asthetic.
> 
> and the SF premium looks cast, thick and cheap. The design looks more basic and blocky.
> 
> ...


Actually, having owned an SF Forged+ (and being familiar with the premium) and now a proud owner of an Inno Max i can say that the Max is heavier, beefier and overall bigger than the sf bows

I think the W&W closest cousin is the SF Elite+ and the RCX100
http://finditarcherysupplies.com.au/images/detailed/0/ELITE__RSER.jpg
http://www.cbarchery.co.uk/WebRoot/...D/27CE/2B2C/ABE1/C0A8/28B9/4489/rcx_640_2.jpg


honorable mentions includes the SF Ultimate and the W&W Inno cxt
http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u406/ticktrickundtrack/Photo23-06-2012120817.jpg

and i personally think that the AL1 is a beefed up version of the Forged+


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## MJAnderson68 (Nov 15, 2013)

chrstphr said:


> they do not look the same to me. Different geometry, different asthetic.
> 
> and the SF premium looks cast, thick and cheap. The design looks more basic and blocky.
> 
> ...


The Inno also costs 3x as much!


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

I also heard rumors that says that the reason why SF discontinued the Ultimate and why the Elite+ was on clearance sale worldwide was because they were in competition with the W&W inno bows and that the group strategy now is SF for entry level and intermediate market and W&W for the intermediate and upwards. I don't know how far this is true (read it on a french archery forum so i can't say my source is very reliable XD) but i must say it does make sense. kinda like Bowtech and Diamond.


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

fluke said:


> I also heard rumors that says that the reason why SF discontinued the Ultimate and why the Elite+ was on clearance sale worldwide was because they were in competition with the W&W inno bows and that the group strategy now is SF for entry level and intermediate market and W&W for the intermediate and upwards. I don't know how far this is true (read it on a french archery forum so i can't say my source is very reliable XD) but i must say it does make sense. kinda like Bowtech and Diamond.


My club mate heard the same thing straight from mr Flute at the indoor WC in Telford...


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

which means that anyone who can grap on an elite+ bow should do it 'cause they are dirt cheap and are a threat to w&w innos :wink:


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## Tim_Shi (Jun 25, 2014)

In someway even forged plus can be consider as a threat to w&w lower end bows like winex, I had the chance to use both, I would say I prefer the comfort hand grip of winex, but other than that, winex does not show a clear advantage over forged plus, same alignment system, while the price difference is as much as $200

By the way anyone know if the grip of win win and sf are exchangeable?


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

I think the distinction needs to be made between "manufactured by" and "branded by". Early SF stuff was nothing more than rebranded KAP leftovers. While they've came a long way, and there are some good quality SF risers and limbs now, you are paying for more than a sticker when you buy W&W. 

DeWalt, Porter Cable and Black & Decker may all fall under the same Parent company umbrella, but they certainly aren't the same tool.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Ultimate pro is maybe the best limb for money. Risers can be hit and miss. W&W have been pretty clear that they are rebranding SF for lower marked, they're not hiding anything in that. That's why they brought back Winact and got rid of direct competition from their own brands.


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## MJAnderson68 (Nov 15, 2013)

I think they are. I got a Jager grip to replace mine on the SF Forged plus and he said Inno, Winex and SF Forged are all the same. Having said that, my Jager grip does stick out about 1/4 inch further that the stock grip where it curves back towards you. Not sure if that's intentional or just how it fits.



Tim_Shi said:


> In someway even forged plus can be consider as a threat to w&w lower end bows like winex, I had the chance to use both, I would say I prefer the comfort hand grip of winex, but other than that, winex does not show a clear advantage over forged plus, same alignment system, while the price difference is as much as $200
> 
> By the way anyone know if the grip of win win and sf are exchangeable?


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## ThomVis (Feb 21, 2012)

zal said:


> W&W have been pretty clear that they are rebranding SF for lower marked, they're not hiding anything in that.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

actually makes me wonder: who designs the risers? Ok w&w makes them, as in manufactures them in their factory but is the design from w&w too?


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## MickeyBisco (Jul 14, 2012)

fluke said:


> actually makes me wonder: who designs the risers? Ok w&w makes them, as in manufactures them in their factory but is the design from w&w too?


Which factory? Is it documented they are made alongside W&W risers and limbs? I know there are some W&W products made in Korea, and some that fall under the W&W badge that are assembled in China. 

Maybe there's a breakdown somewhere of where it's all made, but I wouldn't assume that it's all made in the same place. They farm out a good bit to cheaper labor.


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## fluke (Aug 12, 2012)

i don't know which factory specifically but there are pics of Mr. Park Kyung Rae from w&w visiting the factory making the SF limbs and a pic of Sebastien Flute in Mr Parks' office (if you look closely you can see korean writings on the water bottle) so i kinda assumed the bows where made in a w&w factory (hence the made by w&w statement). i think that the fact that sf uses some stock parts from w&w is a clue as well

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.482321861802165.115092.475255255842159&type=1

but that's all speculation i admit. still who designs the bows?


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

W&W owns and makes all SF products. Most I know are made in Chinese factory, which also makes a lot of top of range W&W stuff. Quality is as good as from the old Korean factory. They used to be made with old Yamaha tools and presses etc afaik, but I doubt that's the case anymore after the new Chinese factory was opened. SF was Yamaha prostaffer for yonks. I don't know how big involvement SF has these days, but it was reported in France that after he started shooting and competing again few years past he sold most of his part of the company back to W&W.


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