# Field Tip: If you carry binocs, use them...



## JawsDad (Dec 28, 2005)

More importantly, if you have a brain, use it for something other than a hat rack..

Shooting our field league last night. It was getting dark so I was trying to hurry. Shot 4 arrows in a group that was touching. Problem was they were all 1/4" below the freaking spot giving me a 16 on the 30. :doh:

Moral of the story, use your binocs and see where you hit before you play follow the leader on all the other shots.. :rant:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

I know lots of people that have done that. 

I also tend to look at just about every arrow I shoot other those called by people that I trust their arrow calling skills....and no I don't trust most of you. I have learned that half of you can't see :chortle:

For example the other day we were shooting....the first target on the back was the 65 yarder. The first 2 shooters had 2 17s in the target....but all of them were inside the pro line with 6 of the 8 arrows being to the right. I shoot my first arrow and it's called out at 3:00....that was strange the shot broke great....I was in the dot when it broke and I know there is a breeze but this wind wouldn't blow my Nano that far at 90m in the open field let alone in the woods. 

So I look and even though I am not 100% positive since there are arrows sticking all over and the lighting is strange down there because of the trees swaying causing crazy shadows and all the pollen blowing I am pretty sure I see a little red ruby around the X line at 6:00....

Next arrow felt better then the first....the call is in the group at 3:00....I look and ask are you sure? Yes is the answer...well I am pretty sure I see a Hooter sitting down there....now before I continue I will say that 2 of the shooters in my group had yellow vanes and nocks and one had green...mine are red so they stood out :wink:

3rd arrow....same call....but I look again and swear I see 3 Xs possible Xs. 

4th arrow I shoot about a 1/4-1/2" out the top but still center....that was called in...but at 3:00 :doh:

I get to the target and low and behold I was correct 19 and 3....if I hadn't of checked I would have been freaking out.....because none of those shots were bad. 

I did move my sight some because of the tendencies of the target.....and because I was laughing about the calls when I got to the next target I had a brain fart and forgot to move my sight back and shot one out the left :chortle:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

You can even use your binos before you ever shoot an arrow at a target once it has been shot a little bit...

Glassing the target face on a hard to read target can tell you a lot if you know how to interpret it...


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

Brown Hornet said:


> I know lots of people that have done that.
> 
> I also tend to look at just about every arrow I shoot other those called by people that I trust their arrow calling skills....and no I don't trust most of you. I have learned that half of you can't see :chortle:
> 
> ...



So that's why you were glassing after all my calls.:shade:

I try VERY hard to give the shooter accurate information because that is what I want in return. If I am not sure where the arrow went, I'll tell you instead of making something up. I would rather let you know I couldn't see it than give you bogus information and have you correct something that didn't need correcting.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Sarge that's why I said I had moved my sight and forgot to move it back :wink: all the holes in that target but one or two were to the right of center. 

and Spoon is one of the people I trust to call arrows :wink:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> Sarge that's why I said I had moved my sight and forgot to move it back :wink: all the holes in that target but one or two were to the right of center.
> 
> and Spoon is one of the people I trust to call arrows :wink:


I knew that you knew that...the post was more for those that don't...but why would you move your windage and set yourself up for what happened...? me, I just work my bubble a little bit on those targets...


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

psargeant said:


> I knew that you knew that...the post was more for those that don't...but why would you move your windage and set yourself up for what happened...? me, I just work my bubble a little bit on those targets...


I haven't ever really worked on bubbling my bow too much. i'm still in the mode of hold it at 9:00 and let it eat kinda guy. Bubbling is something that I a starting to work on though. Just gotta practice it and figure out how much bubble moves the shot and how much it moves.


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## PAUL PUGLISI (Dec 21, 2002)

Ancient probverb: Man who bubbles lives dangerous


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

PAUL PUGLISI said:


> Ancient probverb: Man who bubbles lives dangerous


That's always been my philosophy. I even set my bow up to try and eliminate some of the unintentional bubbling.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

psargeant said:


> I knew that you knew that...the post was more for those that don't...but why would you move your windage and set yourself up for what happened...? me, I just work my bubble a little bit on those targets...


:nono: it's much easier to move the sight and move it back....then "hope" I bubble enough. Been doing it that way for a while.....that's the first time I haven't put it back. But I didn't put it back more because of what happened with the calling and I was still clicking and moving other things that day. 

It's hard enough to move those 11 oz of weight on my side rod when I have to bubble just to level up. No way am I playing the extra bubble game. Heck I will hold off before I do that. 

Besides me dropping one point because of that isn't a big deal....it's not like it kept me from shooting a 558 or something....:chortle:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

I use em.. they are always hangin on my chest. Though my eyes ain't what they used to be, I can see pretty dang well at long distances. If I'm shooting with someone, I can call em when I pull up on the target, if we're shooting the same dot. :lol:

If I'm not sure where it hit and don't positively trust the callers call, I double check. :nod:


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> :nono: it's much easier to move the sight and move it back....then "hope" I bubble enough. Been doing it that way for a while.....that's the first time I haven't put it back. But I didn't put it back more because of what happened with the calling and I was still clicking and moving other things that day.
> 
> It's hard enough to move those 11 oz of weight on my side rod when I have to bubble just to level up. No way am I playing the extra bubble game. Heck I will hold off before I do that.
> 
> Besides me dropping one point because of that isn't a big deal....it's not like it kept me from shooting a 558 or something....:chortle:


I agree.. I wonder.. is the pattern that you sometimes seen caused by a 'tendency of the target' (which is kind of intangible) or is it more the shooting position relative to the target and those off the dot are more a result of not paying close attention to your bubble, etc on that target. I bubble up and focus on making a good shot.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

IGluIt4U said:


> I use em.. they are always hangin on my chest. Though my eyes ain't what they used to be, I can see pretty dang well at long distances. If I'm shooting with someone, I can call em when I pull up on the target, if we're shooting the same dot. :lol:
> 
> If I'm not sure where it hit and don't positively trust the callers call, I double check. :nod:


another person that I trust to call arrows 




IGluIt4U said:


> I agree.. I wonder.. is the pattern that you sometimes seen caused by a 'tendency of the target' (which is kind of intangible) or is it more the shooting position relative to the target and those off the dot are more a result of not paying close attention to your bubble, etc on that target. I bubble up and focus on making a good shot.


You know that down hill target at AAA...the one after the bunny and the down hill 30....that you all shot out the right at States for 16s and 17s that I 20ed.....I cheated and clicked


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> another person that I trust to call arrows
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 50, or 55 after the down hill fan? Yea, but I know that was me. .cause I nailed it this year just walkin up and saying... ha.. I know I can beat ya and made 4 good shots.. :chortle: :wink:


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## Spoon13 (Feb 20, 2007)

I KNOW there are targets that need to be bubbled or aimed off on so I won't argue that. However I would like to ask why?? Is it because the target butt isn't perpendicular to the shooters?? There really has to be a scientific reason behind it. Not that it's gonna matter cause you still need to aim at 9 o'clock to hit the middle on the downhill 60 yarder. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

No not that one....on the front. At least I think it's the front. Two targets after the "new bunny" and then the 30...then this target and you go up the steps.http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=630608&d=1251763151


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## Rattleman (Jul 6, 2004)

Brown Hornet said:


> No not that one....on the front. At least I think it's the front. Two targets after the "new bunny" and then the 30...then this target and you go up the steps.http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=630608&d=1251763151


The one after the bunny is the 30 then you shoot the downhill 50 then walk up the steps to the 55, then the 60,25,20 and finish up on the 45WU.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Rattleman said:


> The one after the bunny is the 30 then you shoot the downhill 50 then walk up the steps to the 55, then the 60,25,20 and finish up on the 45WU.


Yea, that's it. :chortle: The 30 is also a fan on one setup, yes? (32 hunter maybe?)

That's the one.. the 50.. it usually got me last year, but this year I've been pretty well on it.. just shootin it straight up.


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

Brown Hornet said:


> :nono: it's much easier to move the sight and move it back....then "hope" I bubble enough. Been doing it that way for a while.....that's the first time I haven't put it back. But I didn't put it back more because of what happened with the calling and I was still clicking and moving other things that day.
> 
> It's hard enough to move those 11 oz of weight on my side rod when I have to bubble just to level up. No way am I playing the extra bubble game. Heck I will hold off before I do that.
> 
> Besides me dropping one point because of that isn't a big deal....it's not like it kept me from shooting a 558 or something....:chortle:


Hornet,
I'm of the other opinion...IF you PRACTICE 'bubbling' under calm conditions, you can easily and quickly learn how much your impact point will change by giving 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full bubble. This of course as long as the wind isn't really howling...then most bets are off anyways.

Aiming off the middle....you will tend to subconsciously pull the bow over to center...and often times miss out the other side because of it!

Moving your windage several clicks? Sure it can work...but there, you have the SAME PROBLEM...as in learning "how many clicks it takes" to move your impact point over a given distance???
Second series of problems with moving the windage several clicks....you FORGET how many clicks you moved it; or you start to move it back where it was...and oh, crap...you have moved it the wrong way and now have to re-count and figure out...oh, crap, where am I now? Thirdly....Forgetting to move it back at all.

Nope...PRACTICE THE BUBBLING in calm conditions. Sacrifice the "score" on those practice sessions to gain experience in LEARNING YOUR TENDENCIES, and learning YOUR equipment...for WHEN the situation arises where you have wind, or you have a target anomaly, or you have toes up or toes down, or a sidehill.....or downhill with an anomaly....

Same with the uphill/dowhill, or 'mismarked target.' You can 'read the target'...but then, what do you do? If you haven't practiced with YOUR equipment by intentionally mis-setting your site hot or cold by 1/2, 3/4, 1 yard, etc....then, how can you go figure a target where the thing is NOT shooting (according to the arrow holes) where things say it should be shooting? Easy....you do what I suggest...get your buns out on the course and LEARN how YOUR bow/arrow combo's impact point is affected with things 1/2 yard, 3/4 yard, full yard, etc....off and learn them. This information will come in REAL handy, and probably sooner than later, haha. YOUR equipment is going to be different from one of your shooting partner's with regard to this item; especially with the variances in speed, peep heights, cam types, shooting styles, etc. You sure can't rely on someone else's "Changes" in yardage selection.

IT WILL HAPPEN...and those that are PROACTIVE and practice this "knowing their equipment and how to deal with that" will prevail.

Many of us "old farts" that have shot the 550+ barrier in the past...we were VERY proactive, and our practice sessions were not always with the site set perfectly on the marks, dead level, in calm and dry conditions....You don't get to 550+ by only shooting under IDEAL CONDITIONS or "setups"

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

in the words of my man Allen Iverson........

Practice.....Practice....come on man...Practice.....Practice.....

But like you said.....learn your equipment. I do that. So I know how to use my sight as far as adjusting using clicks. I can't guarantee how much "bubble" to account for because there are 30 holes on the right of the target vs 4 on the left. Just like I can't with clicks. But if I give it some clicks....just like giving it bubble.... and the arrow is a tweener at 3:00 or just out...with either method you have to give it more. For ME it's easier to give it a few more clicks then a little more bubble. Just like "learning to bubble" you have to "learn" how much to move your sight..... What's easier...being a half inch out at 3:00 and giving your sight some clicks to get in the dot or giving it "some bubble"? Clicks is easier.

I have done it both ways....and for ME it's much easier and more consistent to move my sight.


like I tell people all the time...and like Randy, Shane and others have told me before. You shoot FS for a reason.....move your F*****G sight. If you want to not move anything and just use your bubble.....shoot pins.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I have to say that I'm with field on this one...

Learnig your bubble and how to work it isn't any harder than learning the clicks and how to work them. You never have to worry about whether or not you got it back to the right place either...

Now if you're consistently left and refuse to click because "it must be something I'm doing"...now that right there is not smart:nono::doh:


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Neither is right and neither is wrong....do what works for you and others will do what works for them. 

If you find it easier to bubble....then bubble away....I find it easier to add a few clicks. If a target has a left tendency and I shoot one on the edge or out....and then put another one over there....I am gonna give it some. 

If you shoot one out the bottom or top.....are you gonna hold higher or lower or give or take some clicks if your shot was good? Your gonna give it clicks. I do the same thing with my windage. 

and I am not talking about shooting left or right either and not moving your sight to adjust for it. 

But as I said before "I" don't like giving extra bubble...it's not that I haven't learned how to do it "I" don't like doing it and "I" find it easier to click it.....that small child I have hanging off the side rod makes me level up very easily and getting it off level adds torque into my shot because of my bad left wrist. So I click. If you don't want to do it that way then great. Don't 

But I know plenty of better shooters that click instead of bubble and it seems to work for them as well :wink:


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

And I know plenty who bubble instead of click...

I ain't trying to tell you what you do is wrong...everybody has to find what works for them...For me, adjusting to a target by clicking just sets me up to forget to put it back and miss the opposite way on the next one...I have a hard enough time setting my elevation correctly...

Holding off isn't really an option for me either...I just don't do it well, and the sight picture gives me fits...plus like field said, I tend to "return to the middle" and end up missing out the other side...in turn, bubbling is easy enough for me, so that is what I do...I even "bubble" to work out wind issues when shooting FITA rounds...


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## field14 (May 21, 2002)

psargeant said:


> And I know plenty who bubble instead of click...
> 
> I ain't trying to tell you what you do is wrong...everybody has to find what works for them...For me, adjusting to a target by clicking just sets me up to forget to put it back and miss the opposite way on the next one...I have a hard enough time setting my elevation correctly...
> 
> Holding off isn't really an option for me either...I just don't do it well, and the sight picture gives me fits...plus like field said, I tend to "return to the middle" and end up missing out the other side...in turn, bubbling is easy enough for me, so that is what I do...I even "bubble" to work out wind issues when shooting FITA rounds...


As I said earlier...you only have so much "bubble" you can use in the wind...and after that....it is either "hold off the middle" or suffer dire consequences.

In some steady winds, however, I've found that a STRONG SHOT and FOLLOW THRU a lot of the time works just fine, without "bubbling"; it depends upon the circumstances...and you have to PRACTICE IN THE WIND in order to learn how YOU react to shooting in the wind.

Key things here are whether the wind is left to right, or right to left...and how much.

If, for a RH shooter, it is right to left...then your shot is going to break a bit quicker. If it is from left to right, it tends to soften you up, so the shot will take longer to break...GOOD THINGS TO KNOW...if you are a BT shooter. Shot many a tournament in the wind with a trip gate release...and learned in "Trial by Fire" during PRACTICE sessions in the wind how I react to these situations that WILL occur.

Some people are good counters and can count clicks...but....forgetfulness WILL happen and a person WILL, in the heat of battle...or if you are on your way to a PB...come in and bite you right in the butt.

Whatever turns a person's crank, I guess.

Heck, when I was shooting my best...I was using a KILLIAN CHEK-IT site...it didn't have ELEVATION or WINDAGE "clicks"...and I don't consider 557 field and hunter PB scores too bad...without clicks or computerized site tapes? Both of those 557 were out of sheer stupidity...and could have been...but then there is the "coulda, woulda, shoulda rule" too, hahaha.

Missing 2 on a 28 fan and one on a.....14 yarder? Gimme a break...but I dun it, and it was MY fault. 2 on a 65 and one on a 25 on a field round...MY fault, but I didn't miss two shots in a row, haha; had to alternate: out, in, out, in on that 65 (hey, I finished it with a solid X, so what the heck?)...dead flat level shot, just screwed up.

Click or "bubble"...either way....in the words of Foghorn Leghorn..."You gotta pay attenshun, son."

field14 (Tom D.)


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

One reason I bubble is that I didn't have the option in BHFS to give it a few clicks.

Another reason I still bubble is that a couple clicks at 25 yards has alot different reaction than it does at 60 yards. I find it easier to figure out what a half and full bubble does at 30 and 60 yards and go from there. 

I hate having to aim off, but when the situation dictates that you hold on air you just have to go along with it.ukey:


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## therster (Jan 14, 2010)

*This is all very interesting*



Spoon13 said:


> I KNOW there are targets that need to be bubbled or aimed off on so I won't argue that. However I would like to ask why?? Is it because the target butt isn't perpendicular to the shooters?? There really has to be a scientific reason behind it. Not that it's gonna matter cause you still need to aim at 9 o'clock to hit the middle on the downhill 60 yarder.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn’t see an answer to Spoon’s question about why some targets have to be shot differently. I was wondering the same thing. I noticed at my club on the targets that are angled away from the shooter, instead of being exactly parallel to the shooter, I have a tendency to hit on the closer side of the spot. Miss to the right if the right side is closer than the left side. I have a picture to post. Are your experiences similar?


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

therster said:


> I didn’t see an answer to Spoon’s question about why some targets have to be shot differently. I was wondering the same thing. I noticed at my club on the targets that are angled away from the shooter, instead of being exactly parallel to the shooter, I have a tendency to hit on the closer side of the spot. Miss to the right if the right side is closer than the left side. I have a picture to post. Are your experiences similar?


I usually tend to lose arrows out the other side, but that side hill on the target posted will cause that as well...

Side hills, sneaky breezes, non-perpendicular targets and off kilter footings are the most likely causes of these issues. In some cases lighting can come into play as well...

That is an awesome looking 60 yder BTW...needs some mowing, but i love the looks of the shot...


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## therster (Jan 14, 2010)

It is a 44 yard shot across a draw. You stand on a downward slope and the target is on the other side of the draw but lower than where you are.


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