# Recurve Speed ??????????



## bow-press (Jul 29, 2006)

I just got into shooting recurves,I bought a new Martin Hunter thats 55lb @28in. and I shoot a true 28in. draw, I love this bow it shoots great and is super smooth and quiet but my question is its speed, I'm shooting a 485 grain Easton Axis arrow @ 191 fps. and I was wondering if thats good or just so so, I have been told thats pretty good and some say its just ok, was wondering what some of the seasoned traditional vetern's of recurve shooting thought about this, and at this spped and arrow weight is it enough kinetic energy for hunting whitetails and black bear ?........... Thanks for any help that anyone might have.


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## Ratdog68 (Feb 22, 2009)

Can ya purge "KE" from your mentality when shooting traditional? "KE" is more important when you're using a mechanical broadhead that needs to be forced open in order to do it's job.

Traditional gear is all about SCARILY-SPOOKEY-SHARP cut on contact broadheads that slice. Since most mechanical broadheads have that "blunt" tip that needs to "punch through", it needs the "KE" buzzword to be of greater importance. Ever notice how LITTLE pressure is needed to get a SHARP blade to cut? Think in terms of the best broadhead sharpener you can get your paws on and leave "KE" with the training wheeled bow.

Ain't nuttin' wrong with the 191fps of your recurve... with a SHARP cut on contact head, you'll git-er-done just fine.


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

+1 to everything he said.

190 fps is really good speed for a recurve, especially if you can hold tight groups with it at normal hunting ranges (out to 30 or so yards). Again, speed and all the KE in the world don't mean a thing if you miss all the vital organs and shoot it in the rump.

And deer and black bear aren't that hard to kill. If you were hunting elk and larger, I'd say use a heavier arrow and give up some of that speed, but you're not. So don't worry


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

bow-press said:


> I just got into shooting recurves,I bought a new Martin Hunter thats 55lb @28in. and I shoot a true 28in. draw, I love this bow it shoots great and is super smooth and quiet but my question is its speed, I'm shooting a 485 grain Easton Axis arrow @ 191 fps. and I was wondering if thats good or just so so, I have been told thats pretty good and some say its just ok, was wondering what some of the seasoned traditional vetern's of recurve shooting thought about this, and at this spped and arrow weight is it enough kinetic energy for hunting whitetails and black bear ?........... Thanks for any help that anyone might have.


Ok... let's look at the operative words here.... Love, shoots great, super smooth, quiet.... Ummmmmmm hello.... 

On the other hand, can you hit what you aim at? If you cannot, then you have MAJOR problems. If you can, you have everything you need. Speed, is relative when in a race. Speed is relative in measuring point blank range. Speed is not relative to KNOWN DISTANCE accuracy. Speed is not relative to killing, as mentioned, sharp broadheads contribute to that but absolutely the most important necessity to killing is accuracy... behind woodsmanship and skills etc of getting into the position in the first place... luck?

Everything contributes to speed. String, hold, arrow fletching and angle, release... Accuracy is what counts.

Aloha....  :beer:


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## Darton01 (Aug 25, 2006)

+ 1 on what everyone said.:thumbs_up


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## JV NC (Dec 9, 2005)

I'd say its good/comparable. My 56# limbs shoot a 575gr arrow 181fps. So yeah....it's good (exactly what I'd rate mine).

My bow's set up to hunt though. Adding silencers will slow down your arrow (if you don't have them).


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## Eldermike (Mar 24, 2009)

They say speed kills, but it's not true - accuracy kills.


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

I got a Martin 50 th. anav. in 55# I had it cronoed at 180 f/s. I have silencers on the string and was shooting a comperable arrow to yours.
most recurves shoot 120 to 130 + thier draw weight, any thing over that is fast. my hunting arrows weight closer to 600 gr. and I am sure the bow is slower with them but that is not important. What is important is the heavier, stable arrow flies better and I am more accurate with it. I agree with the rest. get an arrow combination that gives you good flight, use sharp heads, and above all get comfortable with the bow and build confidence in you accuracy so when the time comes it will be automatic. nothing beats practice.


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## Chris Wilson (Aug 16, 2005)

That's a good speed for just under 9 gr/# and a 28" draw.


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## bow-press (Jul 29, 2006)

*Thanks ! !*

Thanks fot the imput, I should have mentioned that I am useing Magnus stinger 4 blade 125 grain broadheads and I can keep what I think is good groups out to 25 yards didnt mean to get everybody so worked up over just a speed issue....LOL...:thumbs_up, and I think being accurate is the most important thing "BUT" you cant drive a nail through a board with a feather, you still have to have the right tools for the job :thumbs_up


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

bow-press said:


> Thanks fot the imput, I should have mentioned that I am useing Magnus stinger 4 blade 125 grain broadheads and I can keep what I think is good groups out to 25 yards didnt mean to get everybody so worked up over just a speed issue....LOL...:thumbs_up, and I think being accurate is the most important thing "BUT" you cant drive a nail through a board with a feather, you still have to have the right tools for the job :thumbs_up


+1 :teeth:

Ray


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

bow-press said:


> Thanks fot the imput, I should have mentioned that I am useing Magnus stinger 4 blade 125 grain broadheads and I can keep what I think is good groups out to 25 yards didnt mean to get everybody so worked up over just a speed issue....LOL...:thumbs_up, and I think being accurate is the most important thing "BUT" you cant drive a nail through a board with a feather, you still have to have the right tools for the job :thumbs_up


Excellent point, but there are other ways to get power from traditional bows. My selfbows are only shooting around 150-160 (I'm figuring), but that's with 800 gr arrows (10 grains per pound), and they hit like a sledge hammer


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## nmlongbow (Nov 13, 2007)

I think you're in good shape with that setup if the arrows are flying good.

Accuracy and a sharp bh are the most important but I think speed always matters. If you were only getting 140-150 fps, your penetration will suffer and accuracy too past 20 yards. If speed really doesn't matter like some of these guys say then you would be fine with 140, 120 or 100 fps and that's just bs.

I chronoed my Zipper yesterday and I'm getting 183 fps with a 630 grain arrow, 12 strand ff, and 187 fps with a 6 strand ff, [email protected] Less bow and arrow weight would be fine but I like a little extra insurance for elk.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

nmlongbow: Total BS.... give me a break. How much speed do you need to harvest an animal..... True... 100 fps might not cut it, but then that bow might not be legal to start with. There is no 40 pound bow that won't kill a deer, or do you have different information about that? You have a 65 pound bow, great... at what range do you call it quits while hunting. What do you consider ethical for you? What do you consider ethical for me?

I've heard it argued that with recurves a good rule of thumb is to hunt 1/2 the drawweight. Is that reasonable? I don't know, 65 pounds would be maybe 35 yards. 40 pounds would be maybe 20. Is this reasonable? I have 70 pounds bows and hunt no more than 20-25 as a choice. With one exception, and that was my partners idiotic behavior, I've only lost one animal. Why? I don't shoot a lot of times and when I do, they are right there. Are my tactics meant for you? No. They are meant for me and yours are meant for you.

Just out of curiosity, since you seem to have the numbers at your fingertips here, 120 fps is inadequate with a 450 grain arrow why? How many pounds of draw weight would it take to speed a 450 grain arrow at 120 fps?


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

bow-press you are more than fine with what your shooting. Good luck and don't forget the pictures. :thumbs_up


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## nmlongbow (Nov 13, 2007)

rattus, 

Calm yourself. I know you like to give advice but there are other valid opinions. Is your limit for speed 120, 100 or doe's it still not matter like you stated previously?

I have a friend who shoots a [email protected] Pearson recurve drawn to 25". He gets a blazing 96 fps from a 420 grain arrow. That's legal in my state for elk because there are no poundage restrictions but it's hardly ethical.
Is arrow speed still unimportant and total BS?


I've bowhunted for 30 years and never lost an animal and that's because I pass up a lot of shots that are questionable. I took a 45 yard shot at a spooked elk once and he moved 6 feet by the time my arrow got there. It was a total miss and I'm grateful for that but it taught me a lesson.

35 yards is about my limit for a relaxed elk, 30 for mulies.

I own bows from 29 - 80 lbs but have shot mid 60's for hunting for 25 years. My target and 3d bows are mainly 35 - 45 lbs.


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## BarneySlayer (Feb 28, 2009)

I just know that my 600 grain wood arrows flying out of my recurve or long bow go slow compared to my 300 or 400 grain carbon arrows flying out of my compound bows.

But, if I ever actually get my hunting license, i estimate i'd probably only take shots from half the distance anyway, so they only need half the speed right?

There's always that problem of getting to half the distance, but I'll worry about getting legal first...

:wink:

Seriously, while the fps may not be high, when i'm shooting at a distance I can reliably hit the kill zone on a medium animal, they seem to go fast enough. Numbers can be interesting from a physics standpoint, but I wouldn't worry about it. As long as the arrow goes through the right parts, it was fast enough.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

nmlongbow said:


> rattus,
> 
> Calm yourself. I know you like to give advice but there are other valid opinions. Is your limit for speed 120, 100 or doe's it still not matter like you stated previously?
> 
> ...


Actually I don't give advice... so give yourself a break. I have OPINIONS and so do you. A hunter will figure out if his rig is adequate enough soon enough. I believe we should be accurate. I believe we should be woodsmen. I believe the rest will take care of itself. I don't think those that believe this are full of BS as you do.

By the way, you're the one brought up 100 fps arrows, and now we know that 35 pound recurves are capable of only 96 fps. We'll see.


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

Facts about being a successful bowhunter:

Arrow speed is important.
Bow weight is important.
Arrow weight is important.
Broadhead choice is important.
Shot placement is important.
Target distance is important.
Woodsmanship is important.
Knowledge about the animal you are hunting is important.
Knowledge of what your hunting equipment is capable of...is important.
Knowledge of what you are capable of is important.

All this bickering about what is or isn't important is BS...because they all are actually important to some degree or another.

The difference is....some people are going to place more importance on some of those than others.

Ray :wink:


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## junker (Jul 11, 2008)

this thread took a sour turn.

bowpress 

" but my question is its speed"

i'm sure he knows that accuracy is important as does any bowhunter


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

BLACK WOLF said:


> Facts about being a successful bowhunter:
> 
> Arrow speed is important.
> Bow weight is important.
> ...


Yes indeed... and here you too are invoking the BS word... well ok... then I guess I'll accept your SAGE PRONOUNCEMENT as gospel, as all else is BS. 

I actually have a different opinion as to what is just important as to what is critical. Any broadhead wound could kill, for example, so just hitting the animal actually will probably kill it if you hit it anywhere in the body cavity. That's important to some degree. Of course your woodsmanship skills will have to be excellent to recover the animal, and of course hopefully, your poor placement happened at VERY close range so that you have a point from which to start, you arduous tracking mission.

Sharp broadheads, not being really necessary to any degree may or may not aid in your recovery.

So yes... I PLACE SHOT PLACEMENT as being critical to recovery. I Place sharp broadheads critical to recovery. Far above most of what you feel is universally important. I place woodsmanship as being critical to recovery.... I place all of these at the top of the list, and certainly above KNOWING WHAT MY ARROW SPEED IS as being critical to recovery.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

BP That will do the job and is quicker than most !


Come on guys speed is everything, if you can't get 240 FPS from your bow hang it up!!!!! This would have been better as another " My bow is so Fast" thread lol.

When we talk about this stuff I kind of take it that we are talking about shooting Deer ETC not a Diplodocus 

I'll say it again " If you said or wrote it , it is Your Opinion" no need to qualify that in every post. We sometimes look for points of contention in other folks post, we have all done it and we have all gotten a bit riled when others have done it. Kind of the way things are no need to take it personally.

Now for the 240FPS yeah did that with a hybrid and pushed it too well over 240 unfortunately the bows didn't really survive it. A whole season of that abuse and it developed stress cracks in the riser(I would have figured the limbs would have been the problem but oh well) Was really fun to play with.

Now here is what I have seen from both sides of the speed/weight spectrum. A Heavy arrow is slower but less critical to shoot, well other than when shooting any distance IE judging arrow drop. A Light quick arrow is touchier as far as spine and shooting form but is easier at ranges . From what I've seen most people are somewhere in the middle which is probably the best way to go. Shoot what ever turns you crank ! well unless it is heavy FOC then you're just a nut lol.. Randy


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## kegan (Aug 28, 2006)

ravensgait said:


> When we talk about this stuff I kind of take it that we are talking about shooting Deer ETC not a Diplodocus


I stand firm in my belief that if "Jurrasic Park" were real, my life expentency would drop dramatically in an attempt to arrow a one.


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

Ah but it would be worth it just to see them.. Hey look a T-Rex ^^^^-------------------------crunch, crunch--------------------- Randy


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

If you can't hit it nothing else matters. Find out how far you can actually hit a target on the first shot, not after you are warmed up and that is your max. under any circumstance. Now a bow is leathel to over 100 yards, if you don't believe it have someone shot a arrow at you and see what you think. That being said we are not looking for the wild luck shot but the sure thing. My bet is that not many folks can be positive of an accurate hit beyone 40 or 50 yards with trad. equip. You go paractice and see if I am wrong. If I am good you did the practice and you are that much better off. Bottom line: Practice, know your own individual limits, be reasonable and use good judgement in hunting. Set up your hunting situation where you are shooting inside your own individual capabilities. If your broadhead won't shave it is worthless. Most people consider about 45# an absolute min. for deer anthing more makes the job eaiser. Any bow that is in good shape will shoot 110 + its weight that is more than enough out to 40 or 50 yards.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

howard hill jr said:


> Any bow that is in good shape will shoot 110 + its weight that is more than enough out to 40 or 50 yards.


While I mostly agree with everything else you said, what does shoot 110 + its weight mean?

Aloha...  :beer:


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## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

rattus58 said:


> While I mostly agree with everything else you said, what does shoot 110 + its weight mean?
> 
> Aloha...  :beer:


110 fps plus the dw of the bow.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

AKM said:


> 110 fps plus the dw of the bow.


So generally you are saying that a 30 lb bow should shoot 140 fps, a 40 lb bow should shoot 150 fps, and a 50 lb bow should achieve 160 fps. I'm assuming you're also considering 10 grains per arrow per pound? This makes sense for my longbows especially.

Thanks.... Aloha...Tom


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

rattus58 said:


> Yes indeed... and here you too are invoking the BS word... well ok... then I guess I'll accept your SAGE PRONOUNCEMENT as gospel, as all else is BS.


It's about time you see the light :wink:

There's a difference in acknowledging facts that exist even when you don't feel they are all that important and when you are just claiming they are BS because they don't rank high on your list.

Most of this bickering about this subject and many others are caused because people don't look outside their own little boxes and refuse to acknowledge these facts because they feel they are personally unimportant...when in fact they can and do apply.



rattus58 said:


> Far above most of what you feel is universally important.


That's a poor assumption on your part. I don't think they are universally important. 

I believe that each one of those can and will have a different raking in importance for different people.

I know I have mine...just as you have yours.

I acknowledge that and accept it.

What I don't accept is when someone claims any one of those as BS when in fact each one exists in varing degrees of importance to help a bowhunter become successful.

Ray :wink:


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

BLACK WOLF said:


> It's about time you see the light :wink:
> 
> There's a difference in acknowledging facts that exist even when you don't feel they are all that important and when you are just claiming they are BS because they don't rank high on your list.
> 
> ...


First off... I didn't say ANYTHING WAS BS. So let's keep this an honest debate instead of debait.

Secondly, I address MY OPINIONS....

Somethings in life take care of themselves. Becoming accurate at a particular range or having an effective range of whatever takes care of most of your list all by itself. That becomes self evident as you progress in this sport.

Having a sharp broadhead versus a dull one should also be a self evident reality, but ACCURACY TRUMPS THAT REALITY... you can kill with a target tip through the heart, as one kid proudly showed up in our Advanced Bowhunter Class and produced a pig for all to gaze in awe... before we tossed him from the class with the admonishment that he was damn lucky he didn't wind up being cited for a host of violations, not the least of which a broadhead IS required for hunting. You cannot regulate stupidity or ego.

You talk about ranking. We are talking about HUNTING. You don't have a amorphous ranking opportunity when hunting. You don't have the luxury of saying my equipment is more important than accuracy unless your equipment condition would AFFECT accuracy. There IS NOTHING more important when KILLING as to deliver the KILL SHOT ACCURATELY. This is not my opinion.

Aloha


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

rattus58 said:


> First off... I didn't say ANYTHING WAS BS. So let's keep this an honest debate instead of debait.


I am being honest 



rattus58 said:


> Total BS.... give me a break.


Sure looks like you're claiming something as BS.

Ray :wink:


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

BLACK WOLF said:


> LOL...OK...I am the one being honest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was referring to the original poster's comment you twit [nmlongbow: Total BS.... give me a break.]


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

rattus58 said:


> I was referring to the original poster's comment you twit [nmlongbow: Total BS.... give me a break.]


Reverting to name calling....how pathetic :sad:

I changed my original response to you because I thought it was to confrontational and I know how some people get overly sensitive on some of these message boards.:darkbeer:

Ray :wink:


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## Two Blade (Jul 13, 2008)

rattus58 said:


> So generally you are saying that a 30 lb bow should shoot 140 fps, a 40 lb bow should shoot 150 fps, and a 50 lb bow should achieve 160 fps. I'm assuming you're also considering 10 grains per arrow per pound? This makes sense for my longbows especially.
> 
> Thanks.... Aloha...Tom


Howard Hill Jr. was saying that.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

BLACK WOLF said:


> Reverting to name calling....how pathetic :sad:
> 
> I changed my original response to you because I thought it was to confrontational and I know how some people get overly sensitive on some of these message boards.:darkbeer:
> 
> Ray :wink:


Get your facts straight. I'm not reverting to name calling, you essentially accused me of something I didn't do... or you misread my post and accused me of saying whatever whoever said was BS. I didn't and you keep insisting. What would be the proper label for that behavior then if not twit?


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

rattus58 said:


> Get your facts straight. I'm not reverting to name calling, you essentially accused me of something I didn't do... or you misread my post and accused me of saying whatever whoever said was BS. I didn't and you keep insisting. What would be the proper label for that behavior then if not twit?


Sorry dude...I'm not a mind reader 

If you type something and make it look like you're saying it...that's how some of us are going to read it. 

I'm not insisting you said it. I just pointed out the quote I was referring to where it looks like you are claiming BS on what nmlongbow said. If you say you weren't saying it...than I have to take your word for it :darkbeer:

A label given to a person as you did would be not much different than someone labeling you a moron :bartstush::moon: 

Ray :wink:


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Ok... I apologize... I didn't know you couldn't "mindread" a post which emphasized a posters post along with an exclamation.

Much Aloha... Tom  :beer:


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

rattus58 said:


> Ok... I apologize... I'm not into drama... I don't make much of a queen anyways....
> 
> Much Aloha... Tom  :beer:


I'm sorry too. I honestly didn't mean to mis-read what you wrote even when you think you're emphasising some clarity :set1_tango2::cheers::hug:

Ray :wink:


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

Let's start over... Hello, my name is tom. I live on a lily pad cut off from the world and sunlight. I'm opinionated and love to share them. I shoot longbows and recurves only and most of my archery is related to hunting. I am an addict.

Aloha...  :beer:


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## howard hill jr (Aug 21, 2009)

generally speaking a bow will shoot at least 110 f/s plus its draw weight with a reasonably spined arrow and 6 to 7 gr./#. I would be happy with 125 f/s + draw weight as a real fast bow. There are bows faster than this. This works for bow in the 40 to 80 pound range.
It stops working when the arrow is so light for the poundage of the bow that the limbs are not capable of colapsing fast enough to give any more speed.
If you have a crono. a good test to do is to see how much heavier an arrow you can shoot with out loosing a lot of speed. Some bows will shoot a light arrow very fast but are more effected by a heaver arrow, in that case you would want to choose an arrow on the light side for max. effeciency. Most long bows will throw an heavy arrow without much penelty for speed. I shoot 6o# at 29" and use an arrow of about 700 gr. My long bow won't shoot a 450 gr. arrow much faster so the heavy arrow gives me more energy. Everything has to be tuned to an individual bow. The slower bows can usually shoot a heaver arrow, the faster bows are usually better off with lighter arrows.
Having said that, the arrow still has to fly well and most importantly the arrow must hit what it is being aimed at. There is no magic formula, there are only suggested limits and places to start based on experience.


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

:zip::zip::grin:


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## ravensgait (Sep 23, 2006)

Ah don't take it personally BP and besides look at all you learned besides what you asked for  I think it must be a full moon in some parts of the world LOL as some sure do seem out of sorts today.. Randy


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

My appologies too. Surely didn't mean to upset you.

Ray :wink:


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