# KZN Bowhunting Permit



## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

To be perfectly honest, I cant see what this does to either help/promote/protect bowhunting? It rather seems that there are those who are capatilizing on the fact that there is a law in Natal that "prohibts" bowhunting by presenting a report/permit form for a sum of money. How does this go towards doing somthing to legalize bowhunting? How does this report that one needs to fill help conserve wildlife and educate bowhunters? The only good thing about it in my hinest opinion is that it wil only be an indication as to what, when and how the particular members hunted game, nothing more.

Lastly, who in the world set up the minimums??? Please dont tell me that they just used the general accepted regulations as was stated in the natal hunting ordinance of the 80's!!!!

No mechanicals? I dont use them but they have come a loooooong way from those earlier "things"

95# for Eland? At least that for Buff, Hippo, Rhino and Jumbo, but how big were Eland back in the day!?!?

Lets get the right guys to rather stipulate what minimuns should be, guys like Gary Bogner, Adrian de Villiers...


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

Balky,

I will certainly be interesting to have a look at the statistics gained from the permits in two years time.
I tend to agree with the b/head thing but 95lbs for a sable is akin to saying that .375 is the minimum calibre for impala.

Jissie Engee, I don't know about Adrian setting the lbs standards boet?
I'm far to papgat to draw 120lbs+ for plainsgame.:wink:


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## Balky (Jun 20, 2006)

ASG / Engee

The regulations for KZN were, I believe made based on recommendations given to Stoffel de Jager (the chap in charge of this section in KZN at the time) from a person by the name of RG Wilson who is active as a bowhunter /shop owner in KZN. These recommendations were adopted without wider consultation and it seems will hold until we present a counter view. (if it would be considered). There is no fact nor research base to support these minimums and sadly they are based on a singular dogma. Everyone has different views and they can be radical and are personal. If we were to take for example one regular writer's view in the ABH magazine then we should not take shots that are further than 25m.

Sadly when when laws are either silly / impractical / too onerus then many folks (including ethical, thinking hunters) ignore them. That's probably the case with most animals killed with bow and arrow in KZN. What the heck are these guys intentions when they come up with these rules????? The mind boggles. 

For the record I stick to the rules as I have too much to loose if caught out (I also fill in the returns: would love to see some useful analysis coming out of what KZN collate over the years)

Well tomorrow I'm off to chase impala rams with my rocket 125gn expandables. They are quiet, accurrate and out of my 70 pound rig shoot a big hole right through the toughest of rams

PS: Not in KZN

Balky


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## Karoojager (Dec 20, 2005)

I am very wondering about the rules in KZN. The bow industry don`t build bows for this year with more than 80# and for a Eland you need 95. Seems the circle of hunters they have a bow in this draw weight class and can really use a bow in the high poundage is very small.
I am very interesting for trophy pictures this year and the bow specs from KZN.


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## Invictus (May 19, 2007)

Just a thought how can you put Eland in the same catagory as Elephant, hippo etc.


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Well Craig

In all honesty, I think that Adrian has the slight advantage over Mr. Wilson when it comes to credability. Just take the sheer number of animals that Adrian has taken over the years, not only that but when you meet him he will be the first to tell you that you can kill nearly any animal with the poundage you feel comortable in drawing.

I'm just wondering how many Eland Rick Wilson has shot and with how many different set-up's that he can conclusively state that regardless of your draw length of arrow weight, that you need a minimum od 95# to cleanly kill one.....??? Rassie must have been barking mad when he shot one using a bow at HALF the poundage Rick has stated, and that on a dvd nogal!

Anyway, I have always felt that you cant beat or buy experience. So let us leave the rules and guidelines to be set by those with more than enough experience in the field.

All the best

Engee


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

True Engee!

Adrian has shot more game with archery tackle than most of us on this forum together and his experience can certainly be used in this regard.

I remeber Rassie shooting that Eland with an Outback at 40 lbs. Perhaps we should send that clip to this Mr. Wilson? That bull didn't go 40 yards!

Is it possible that you guys can get a meeting with the powers that be in KZN to discuss this matter?


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## Philip Moolman (Jan 31, 2006)

*KZN permits*



Balky said:


> ASG / Engee
> 
> The regulations for KZN were, I believe made based on recommendations given to Stoffel de Jager (the chap in charge of this section in KZN at the time) from a person by the name of RG Wilson who is active as a bowhunter /shop owner in KZN. These recommendations were adopted without wider consultation and it seems will hold until we present a counter view. (if it would be considered). There is no fact nor research base to support these minimums and sadly they are based on a singular dogma. Everyone has different views and they can be radical and are personal. If we were to take for example one regular writer's view in the ABH magazine then we should not take shots that are further than 25m.
> 
> ...


Is Wilson aware that it is illegal to hunt T-REX.With that poundage you would be able to kill one(beware of the others standing behind)Who are these clowns


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

It is not that they are clowns (or strong-men, or any other circus occupation) but that the studies and recommendations came from an age where 95# was only just driving an arrow fast enough to do the job. If I recall, these studies and others were undertaken in KZN in the late 80's or early 90's and as such, are severely dated. 

Technology today means that the bows of yesteryear are about half as efficient as todays top bows. 

It is perhaps better to look at constructively moving forward and updating the poundages required to cleanly kill an animal in a specific class. I would actually prefer to move away from the poundage issue and rather to a tested and certified kinetic energy measurement. The local bowshop can do this and sign the test, which should be renewed every season or when reapplying for the permit. 

Tear it up boys. Lets get the ball rolling!


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## Balky (Jun 20, 2006)

*KZN Permit*

Guys

I just spoke to John Hamilton from KZN who, I believe was part of the team that made recommendations to KZN wildlife regarding the usage of mechanicals, poundage ranges etc. 

These were intended as recommendations and not law. I will engage directly with KZNWS to ask how these became conditions. The confusion does not confine itself to only the permits. After publishing an article in the Magnum some time ago on hunting red duiker I had a lot of heat from Koos Barnard re my 'illegal' practises.

The poundage limits do not differentiate on draw length, long bow v compound etc. The recommendation against mechanicals was based on the early mechanicals at the time. The study done in the 80's by Tony Tonkinson was not used at all as a basis for the guidelines at all. 

I will give more feedback to this forum when I have had some communication with KZNWS. As a suggestion, possibly Engee or others lets put some pen to paper and make a proposal that the new chaps at KZN should look at from a regulation point of view. 

Cheers

Balky


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## INGOZI (May 9, 2005)

Sounds like a great plan Balky, I will get to it as soon as I'm back from my hunt.


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

Thanks Balky,

Keep us informed. I'd still like to see fixed blades as the prefered b/heads.
Just my 2c:wink:


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

ASG said:


> Thanks Balky,
> 
> Keep us informed. I'd still like to see fixed blades as the prefered b/heads.
> Just my 2c:wink:


I believe fixed blades for all medium and bigger game should be mandated. I would consider expandables on small & thin skinned game, because they can be more accurate and this is an advantage on the tiny target areas for the vitals of small game.


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

James,

That's good thinking there old boy.:wink:
Where do we draw the line though and as what do we classify warthogs and bushpigs?

My suggestion would be using Impala or blesbuck as the upper limit for mechanicals and to classify warthog and bushpig as medium game and they should fall into the fixed blade category.

On the other hand though... a well tuned, fixed blade tipped arrow flies perfectly all the way out to 60 yards+. 
If a bowhunter is too lazy to properly tune his bow to fixed blade broadheads, perhaps he should rather stay on the target range or take up bowls?


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

The problem is that target archers are waaaaay more diligent in setting their bows up than many bowhunters. The reality is that the *average *hunter spends too little time on their setup and fine-tuning broadheads is something that the nuts on AT do... I recently heard of someone that bought a bow on their way to the hunting grounds to use it. 



I agree with you that pigs are definitely not small game. Anyone that wants to argue needs to wrestle with one. I also agree with blesbuck and impala being the upper limit. They could even be at the bottom end of the medium game, but the numbers of these animals taken makes sense to allow expandables.


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## Balky (Jun 20, 2006)

Guys

Permits:

John Hamilton is going to be sending the updated schedule of recommended draw weights and game categories which were sent to KZN wildlife for inclusion in the permit system for this year. I have still not heard back from him despite his promise to keep me informed. 

Mechanicals:

These were never intended to be outlawed at all for KZN. Johns comments to me were that the modern mechanicals should certainly not be outlawed. On this point I did a fair amount of research speaking with Rassie Erasmus, Adriaan Rall and a chap I used to hunt with Roy Schadie before using mechanicals. Their views (based on heaps of experience with both fixed and mechanicals was that on game except the really heavy stuff like buff etc mechanicals were on balance better). In my own experience they are more than adequate for animals up to and including wildebeest and gemsbok (I shoot 70lbs 29") This includes pass throughs on both of the last 2 big animals that I killed). I now shoot a mix of both 125 g Muzzies and Rocket Steelheads mechanicals which shoot to the same point of impact to 40 yards. One thing I have found is despite having a well tuned bow if you make a less than ideal shot, ie if you have just a little hand torque the error is significantly magnified off target with the fixed blade heads. Currently I use the fixed blade heads in KZN and carry both in my quiver in other provinces. For the chaps who are anti mechanicals can you share some of your experiences with them to illustrate your reservations (limitations?). My other hunting buddy in the eastern cape tells me that they are not great for shooting through bush, I dont intend shooting through bush though


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

Good points Balky. I have no experience with mechanicals, but I am hesitant to try them on larger animals. It is the same as old bows vs. new bows - efficiency, reliability and functionality compared to mechanicals of yesteryear. 

Anyway, if they can see a relaxation on these restrictions, it would only benefit KZN's bowhunting scene. People are hesitant to come here because in many instances they would be breaking the law or not hunting for their desired trophy species, because their equipment doesn't cut it - according to the regulatory authorities....


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## ASG (Jun 25, 2007)

Balky,

In all honesty, the only mechanical broadhead that I would consider are the Rocket steelheads. I've seen a pass through on an Eland cow and it was impressive to say the least. They ceratinly have my vote as the best expandable available today.

Problems I've seen with mechanicanicals are:

1. Insufficicient penetration to kill a kudu bull. Shot was slightly off and *just* caught the scapula. A fixed blade would have penetrated. 
Spitfire XT if I remember correctly.

2. Grass getting caught in between the blades and throwing the arrow off course while hunting blesbuck in tall grass. Scorpion expandable.

3. Only 2 of the blades opening. Scorpion.

4. The screws holding the blades snapping in half on impact resulting in a wounded wildebeest that we only put down two days later. Spitfire.

5. Arrow getting thrown off course on a quartering away shot and the arrow running up between the skin and ribs of a Red hartebeest.

These are only a few things that I've seen and I'm sure there must be more.

If we take into account the technological advances in fixed blade broadheads, there is actually not much of an argument for expandables.
Broadheads like the G5 striker, NAP Nitro? etc fly like a field point.

The secret of their flight is in the length of the head. If you hold a 125g Striker next to a Thunderhead of the same weight, you will see that the striker is quite a bit shorter than its' counterpart and closer in length to a field point.

Another good yard stick is to look at the guys that guide bowhunters for a living. 90% of the outfitters that I work with clearly state "Only fixed blade broadheads of a sturdy construction are permitted."
If mechanicals are THE BOMB! Then why do the real professionals recommend fixed blade broadheads?:wink:


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## Matatazela (Mar 1, 2005)

A big problem with everything in life is immitations. You get a great design, and someone decides that they can make something as good but cheaper. The problem arises in that you get similar looking broadheads (now this is fixed and mechanical) of very poor construction. Same goes for bullets, tools... heck, even deodorant! It is impractical to only permit certain products, so I have no idea how this could be policed.


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