# Oh Jin-hyek (Does he expand by straightening his elbow?)



## HikerDave (Jan 1, 2011)

I finally watched the gold medal match, which I discovered is freely available to us non-cable subscribers on NBC Olympics.

An interesting thing that I noticed about his form was that he appears to bend his bow arm elbow very slightly as he completes his draw, and then very slowly and slightly unbends his elbow during the expansion phase of his shot.

Does any other archer do this?


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## DK Lieu (Apr 6, 2011)

I noticed that Jo Eun Ae (Korea), world collegiate women's recurve champion last year, appeared to do something similar. I always thought it was because she had an hyper-extensible elbow, and putting a slight bend in her bow arm prevented her from hyper-extending it.


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## swagpiratex (Apr 8, 2012)

Ooo, thanks for that insight. I'll suggest that to my girlfriend, who has a double-jointed elbow.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I always thought Park Sung Hyun was a subtle pusher.

And isn't the "Italian" method a pushing philosophy?


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

OH Jin Hyek is a sort of mistery in standard archery techniques, and is the only new thing seen in the last 20 years. The mistery is not in the bent elbow, as many use same solution /have same problem, but in front shoulder used "compound like". If you look carefully, you will easily find that front shoulder is in after the very original drawing cycle, and that back shoulder is NOT aligned with it at the end of the traction,in the aming phase. So, final action is more like "Reo Wilde" like than any othe in a recurve field. 

Pushing as a philosofy in recurve shooting is "heretic", not "italian" ..:wink:


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## John_K (Oct 30, 2011)

I went looking for footage of Oh Jin Hyek, and found this gem taken (or at least uploaded) by Vittorio:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqGMz7oDpeE

That really isn't what you'd call conventional shoulder alignment. I'm amazed he can make it work. What an archer.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

If you talk to Darrell Pace about his front shoulder alignment, you will hear some of the same things. Sometimes, a low shoulder beats a front shoulder that is rotated in line.

This is why I say that the archer has to eventually determine what works best for them. Just because an archer cannot achieve certain positions does not mean they cannot become a world class archer. And by forcing every body type to assume the same positions, I believe we are at risk of stealing away some of an individual's strength and their ability to shoot relaxed in a more natural position. 

John


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## tecshooter05 (Mar 7, 2005)

this is the problem at the shop where i shoot. the coach wants all her shooters to shoot "perfect" form. This is a very hard thing to do because no one has that ability with working a 9-5 job and then trying to enjoy shooting



limbwalker said:


> Just because an archer cannot achieve certain positions does not mean they cannot become a world class archer. And by forcing every body type to assume the same positions, I believe we are at risk of stealing away some of an individual's strength and their ability to shoot relaxed in a more natural position.
> 
> John


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

limbwalker said:


> If you talk to Darrell Pace about his front shoulder alignment, you will hear some of the same things. Sometimes, a low shoulder beats a front shoulder that is rotated in line.
> 
> This is why I say that the archer has to eventually determine what works best for them. Just because an archer cannot achieve certain positions does not mean they cannot become a world class archer. And by forcing every body type to assume the same positions, I believe we are at risk of stealing away some of an individual's strength and their ability to shoot relaxed in a more natural position.
> 
> John


Bingo!


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> This is a very hard thing to do because no one has that ability with working a 9-5 job and then trying to enjoy shooting


Oh, I wouldn't say that...  I still enjoy shooting just fine.

But what you describe is a real problem with our coaching in this country. We have too many people coaching who were never top flight archers themselves, they drink the kool-aid and don't know more than one way to teach. Nothing wrong with a particular flavor of kool-aid, so long as the archer isn't allergic to it, but if they are, then coaches need to be able to mix a new flavor. 

It's fairly straightforward and simple to "introduce" a certain form to new archers, but another thing entirely when that archer starts to struggle and starts asking questions of the coach that they cannot answer - TO THE ARCHER'S SATISFACTION - (that part is key!).

The other problem I see, and I've seen this for a while now, is that some coaches drink the Kook-aid, then want to come back and turn every single archer they work with into the next Olympic champion, with the expectation that every one of their archers either 1) has that goal, or 2) has that work ethic, or 3) has that amount of talent. 

Any coach that doesn't treat each of their archers as an individual will find themselves losing students. Unfortunately, when that happens, those coaches think it was a failure of the student, and not their coaching. 

John


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## R&B (Oct 4, 2006)

There are certain things that can be taught and there are certain things that can only be learned. There is a huge difference. Being an elite anything is something you learn.

"Learning is not compulsory, it is contextual. It does not happen all at once, but builds upon and is shaped by what we already know. To that end, learning may be viewed as a process, rather than a collection of factual and procedural knowledge."

There is no magic to shooting well. Everyone seems to think there is some special secrete knowledge or shooting technique. Your technique, form, system simply just needs to be good enough. The same goes for talent. You just needs to be good enough. The thing that takes you to the elite level is your hard work and some luck (maybe 10 years of hard work if you're lucky). 


-R&B


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

_There are certain things that can be taught and there are certain things that can only be learned. There is a huge difference. Being an elite anything is something you learn._

Nicely put.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

Rick McKinney has spoken extensively about feeling your way through the shot. No coach can discern feel for an archer.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Roger that. Any coach, no matter how good, can only take an archer so far. After the things the coach can SEE are addressed, it is up to the archer to FEEL the rest of the way on their own. Of course, occasional check-ups by a good coach can get one back on track, or keep a bad habit from forming, but beyond the "expert" level, 90% of an archer's success is up to them.

The OTC is the perfect example of this. Many archers all receiving the same instruction, and yet only a few stand out. 

John


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## Scott.Barrett (Oct 26, 2008)

limbwalker said:


> Roger that. Any coach, no matter how good, can only take an archer so far. After the things the coach can SEE are addressed, it is up to the archer to FEEL the rest of the way on their own. Of course, occasional check-ups by a good coach can get one back on track, or keep a bad habit from forming, but beyond the "expert" level, 90% of an archer's success is up to them.
> 
> The OTC is the perfect example of this. Many archers all receiving the same instruction, and yet only a few stand out.
> 
> John



If anything will help me be a better coach, learning this is probably it....


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Scott, the difference between world class coaches and the rest is that world class coaches simply are able to "see" more than most. And that only comes through lots of experience and lots of time studying archers. Most amatuer or volunteer coaches 1) have never been elite archers, and 2) will never get to see enough elite archers shoot to then be able to transfer what they've seen to their students. 

It's kind of a catch-22, since the more elite archers a coach works with, the better they get and the more they can "see."

John


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## BLACK WOLF (Aug 26, 2005)

limbwalker said:


> This is why I say that the archer has to eventually determine what works best for them. Just because an archer cannot achieve certain positions does not mean they cannot become a world class archer. And by forcing every body type to assume the same positions, I believe we are at risk of stealing away some of an individual's strength and their ability to shoot relaxed in a more natural position.


:thumbs_up :thumbs_up

Ray :shade:


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