# GROUP TUNING @ long range



## bowpro34 (Jun 17, 2007)

Get yourself the latest GRIV DVD's from http://grivtech.com/

I watched these and went to his class and really there is no shortcut for the group tuning. It takes an unbelievable amount of time to setup a bow the way the pros do. I have been working for weeks on setting up mine and still not there yet but things keep getting better.

Good luck!
JS


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## SILVATICUS (Jan 18, 2008)

*Help*

Does anybody have answers for this That doesnt involve buying anohter book/dvd ?


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

This is on arrow spine really but it's to improve groups at long range. 
http://www.dudleyarchery.info/articles/BI50conquering.pdf


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## SILVATICUS (Jan 18, 2008)

*any body else*

anybody else know anything that could help ?


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

I have used two formats of group tuning my favourite is to shoot at a spot target, I don't get on with shooting at lines too well.

I monitor the shape of my groups over 3-4 ends to reduce error due to my lack of skill. If my group spread more vertically I adjust my knocking point, if they spread more horizonatally I adjust my centre shot.

After I adjustments I shoor again 3-4 ends to check the results.

Personally I think there are no short cuts, you get out of it what you put in.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Different John Dudly article. French tuning, it's super tuning center shot and then playing with verticle rest adjustment or nocking point to tighten groups.
Used this when I shot field - took Champion in State shoot after tuning as such and took a few firsts in locals and took 2nd at the state Championship the following year. So it works.


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## Nuwwave (May 20, 2009)

I'm no expert, but what I've been told, at those distances it is no longer feasible to adjust your nocking point or rest. You just can;t make the small enouh adjustment. Instead try you tiller and draw weight. they will allow a more precise adjustment.

If you have a nock right (spine too stiff) increase bow weight . 
Nock left(week spine) decrease bow weight . 
Nock high- increase bottom limb or decrease top limb.. 
nock low increase top limb or decrease bottom limb.


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## Limey (May 6, 2005)

Nuwwave said:


> I'm no expert, but what I've been told, at those distances it is no longer feasible to adjust your nocking point or rest. You just can;t make the small enouh adjustment. Instead try you tiller and draw weight. they will allow a more precise adjustment.
> 
> If you have a nock right (spine too stiff) increase bow weight .
> Nock left(week spine) decrease bow weight .
> ...


I have micro adjust rests so very small movements are easy to make, however I take your point.


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## SILVATICUS (Jan 18, 2008)

*Thanks*

Thanks everybody Some of this is new Some I ve been doing . Just rying to learn and get it the best I can . Keep the info coming We can never learn too much !


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

SILVATICUS said:


> Thanks everybody Some of this is new Some I ve been doing . Just rying to learn and get it the best I can . Keep the info coming We can never learn too much !












Like Limey says,
some of the arrow rests are micro-adjustable for left to right adjustments.

The Brite Site ProTuner arrow rest is controlled by a screw feed
(fine thread bolt), so extremely repeatable, extremely fine adjustments
are possible. The knob on the right has a ball detent system,
so you can rotate one click at a time 
(each "click" is a fraction of a full rotation).




Rotate the entire arrow rest body
to change the angle of the blade.

As the blade angle gets flatter,
then the blade provides a softer amount of support.

As the blade angle gets steeper,
the same blade provides a bit stiffer amount of support.


This is the optional arrow rest mount,
which also has vertical adjustment.













If you use tied nocksets,
above and below,
INSIDE the d-loop...

then,
you have the option to rotate the nockset
just like a nut on a bolt.

The thread on my center servings are 0.017 inch diameter thread.

Sometimes,
I may rotate a nock set 1/2 of a full rotation.

Sometimes,
I may rotate a nock set a full rotation.

That's a very very fine adjustment,
and this small adjustment can make a noticeable difference
in grouping, especially at longer distances.

Just slide the d-loop knots apart,
and then rotate the nock sets (up or down)
and
then slide the d-loop knots back tight against the nock sets,
and tighten up the d-loop again.


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## Nuwwave (May 20, 2009)

Another great idea lug, I like that.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Nuwwave said:


> I'm no expert, but what I've been told, at those distances it is no longer feasible to adjust your nocking point or rest. You just can;t make the small enouh adjustment. Instead try you tiller and draw weight. they will allow a more precise adjustment.
> 
> If you have a nock right (spine too stiff) increase bow weight .
> Nock left(week spine) decrease bow weight .
> ...


You are confused. The bottom 4 lines you have are for paper tuning.
French tuning begins with zeroing at 9 feet and using same sight pin shoot at 60 yards. (depending bow speed zeroing at 9 feet should put you real close 60 yards.) You're not worrying about accuracy here, but setting center shot to perfection as best it can get. Takes a bit, but well works. Read article.

www.dudleyarchery.info


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

I think this is the one. Good stuff.
http://www.dudleyarchery.info/articles/usarcher1FT.pdf


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## mohunt0515 (Jun 3, 2009)

Good info


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## Bowdon (Aug 17, 2004)

Limey said:


> I have used two formats of group tuning my favourite is to shoot at a spot target, I don't get on with shooting at lines too well.
> 
> I monitor the shape of my groups over 3-4 ends to reduce error due to my lack of skill. If my group spread more vertically I adjust my knocking point, if they spread more horizonatally I adjust my centre shot.
> 
> ...


This if the way I group tune, I well do it at 30 yards on a new target to look at the holes. If the group is to big I make changes on poundage to close it up. I had a calm day two days ago and shot this group at 50 yards.


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## red44 (Apr 11, 2005)

You call THAT a group?

















I'd be OK with that.


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## zac82 (Sep 28, 2008)

Bowdon said:


> This if the way I group tune, I well do it at 30 yards on a new target to look at the holes. If the group is to big I make changes on poundage to close it up. I had a calm day two days ago and shot this group at 50 yards.


man im happy when i do that at 20!!!!!!!!!!!:darkbeer:


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## lane preston (Mar 31, 2005)

their is no set yardage for french tuning. you could have a ballpark sight tape set. shoot close and then walk back as far as you can shoot tight groups. some people may go to 30 some 80.
i start at 10 yards and usually end up at 60-80 depending on how i am shooting. you verticle adj can be moved with yardage (providing its leveled first) ryals and dudley talk about the one pin method for simplicity. but it really is based on your skill level on how far back you can go.
what good is 60 yards if you can have a readable group to work from?

as time and skill go one you can fine tune more and more.
good luck.


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## Bowdon (Aug 17, 2004)

Back in the 60's when I learned this it wasn't called French tuning. I do this, but in a little different way. I make a big + on a place of card broad level it and aim at the center at 10,20,30 and 40 yards with my 20 yard setting. Study the arrow pull them make circle around the hole with a pin and make my adjustments and shot again till I get them to shoot straight up and down. I do this with broad head because when you shoot fixed head you are putting fins on the front of your arrow. I shot the some yardage with broad heads and then field points and make adjustments to get them to all hit straight up and down the line hitting together. I do this to, but move my sight for the yardage, so I can tell if my sight is level you can't tell if you don't move your sight up and down the bar to see if it's unlevel. The bar maybe not level 90 degrees with the pin. I have leveled all my sight up put it on my bow and have had to make a very minor adjustment to get the arrows to hit center before. Shooting is the true test. Some people shoot at a slight can't and you can by only moving the bar and get away with it just make sure your pin is 90 degrees with the bar or the pin is not facing in are out because you will shoot lift or right shooting up are down hills. Thats way we have a third axle on good target sights.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Bowdon said:


> Back in the 60's when I learned this it wasn't called French tuning. I do this, but in a little different way. I make a big + on a place of card broad level it and aim at the center at 10,20,30 and 40 yards with my 20 yard setting. Study the arrow pull them make circle around the hole with a pin and make my adjustments and shot again till I get them to shoot straight up and down. I do this with broad head because when you shoot fixed head you are putting fins on the front of your arrow. I shot the some yardage with broad heads and then field points and make adjustments to get them to all hit straight up and down the line hitting together. I do this to, but move my sight for the yardage, so I can tell if my sight is level you can't tell if you don't move your sight up and down the bar to see if it's unlevel. The bar maybe not level 90 degrees with the pin. I have leveled all my sight up put it on my bow and have had to make a very minor adjustment to get the arrows to hit center before. Shooting is the true test. Some people shoot at a slight can't and you can by only moving the bar and get away with it just make sure your pin is 90 degrees with the bar or the pin is not facing in are out because you will shoot lift or right shooting up are down hills. Thats way we have a third axle on good target sights.


I understand the concept and performed the same thing, but this can take a lot of shooting, more than some wish to get where they want. Today, using today's methods and rests and sights that can be finely adjusted sighting in and group tightening can take a couple hours, if that. 

Of course, this Post asked of group tightening. With what we have today, better equipment, better methods/knowledge, better tools, just setting up the bow properly will have the bow shooting groups too tight to worry about. If this wasn't true the computer programs we have today couldn't print out a sight tape and be accurate. A article not too long by one the top U.S. women shooters told of not even shooting the distances her program spit out and she went out won and this with arrows she hadn't used before.


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## Bowdon (Aug 17, 2004)

I have the archery advantage a leveling block to level my sight up and all the modern tuning things, but I'm perfectionist and things must be perfect. Group tuning is a must to shoot good and win tournaments. A winner is one who will put time into it to shoot good. I have shot pro sense 1971 and when a lost a shoot are even came in second I would shoot till I would finger out way equipment, form or a mental thing. l Second place was only the first looser to me. If I paid $ 500 to shoot I didn't want to wake home empty handed. Some thing hunting if I got a once in a life time shot. I want to make it perfect and not miss because of some thing I over looked.


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## SILVATICUS (Jan 18, 2008)

*Excellent advice from everyone*

Thanks guys This is all helpful I believe I heard the vertical line tuning method called just that and using only one pin But todays equipment with all the levelers and such is faster and IF machined correctly is awesome Any more advice is welcome .Thanks to everyone that s contributed


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## SILVATICUS (Jan 18, 2008)

*New Question*

Thanks for all the answers/help everyone . I have a new question now ! Has anyone tried loading an Archers Advantage Program onto an Iphone ? Similar to storing it on a palm Pilot For the references and uphill/downhill?


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