# ???? Tiller Tuning - thoughts



## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Heard about, read about it and no one ever tried it that I spoke with.......

Tiller Tuning, By Perry A. Ratcliff

Tiller tuning methods described elsewhere require an archer of exceptional abilities to produce consistently good results. The following tiller tuning procedure should be useful to a much larger segment of archers.

My tiller tuning procedure is a simple two-step process. In the first step, you adjust the tiller to where you can best aim the bow. In the second step, you fine tune the tiller to where the bow is most forgiving.
Step 1

Shoot as many shots as necessary to determine whether the bow is pulling you down below the spot or the bow is drawing you up above the spot. Drawing "on the spot" will help you best determine what direction the bow is pulling you. If the bow is pulling you down below the spot, decrease the weight on the bottom limb or increase the weight on the top limb. If the bow is drawing you above the spot, increase the weight on the bottom limb or decrease the weight on the top limb.

During this part of the tuning process it is not critical that you continue readjusting the nocking point for good arrow flight. You are only interested in getting the bow to aim with the greatest ease. After you have adjusted your tiller, continue shooting the bow to see how well it aims for you and adjust the tiller as described above until the bow consistently draws on or near the spot.

When you have the bow aiming well, readjust the nocking point (and peep sight height) to obtain proper arrow flight.
Step 2

You now have the bow adjusted for the best "feel" in you hand and can begin tuning for best grouping. For this part of the tuning process it is necessary to evaluate how well you execute each shot. If you bow is tuned properly all of your "Good" shots are going to group together.

What you need to do now is identify what happens to your arrows when you shoot an arrow that has been aimed well but execution was flawed. Disregard all shots that are not well aimed (did you do a good enough job in step 1). If tiller is not yet adjusted perfectly, your questionable shots will tend to go consistently high or consistently low. These high or low shots are what you will be looking for when fine tuning your tiller. If your tiller is adjusted correctly, some of you poorly executed shots will group a little high and some will group a little low.

If your poorly executed shots consistently group low, decrease weight on your bottom limb or increase weight on your top limb. If your poorly executed shots consistently group high, increase weight on the bottom limb or decrease weight on your top limb.

This fine tuning process should not be completed in only two or three ends because you are making adjustments based on where you poorly executed (but well aimed) shots are going. During this fine tuning process, make adjustments on only one limb and never make adjustments of more than +/- ¼ turn from your initial setting of step one. I generally make my fine tuning adjustments in 1/16 turn increments.

Unlike most tiller tuning methods, this procedure works well at even short distances. I generally do my tiller tuning at 20 yards. At 20 yards, I try to determine whether my poorly executed (but well aimed) shots consistently drift high of the spot or low of the spot and adjust accordingly.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

Very good read


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## carpfisher3 (Dec 17, 2017)

I have thinking about this lately. I used TT years ago with my Martin Scepter II and recurve limbs. Is TT still valid with Past Parallel limbs?


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## lees (Feb 10, 2017)

My bows distribute my arrows perfectly evenly into the woods in all directions above and to the side of the bale. So I don't need tiller tuning.....

My hoyt wheel bows are the only bows I have that require tillering, but mainly for tuning purposes. They're designed for finger shooting, so the knocking point is almost 3" above the center of the main string. When shot with a release aid, a ton of detiming of the wheels is needed to get a flat bareshaft out of them, especially at full poundage.

But it's also not an accident that they hold on target for me better than anything I've ever shot. Better than my PSE's for sure. I suspect that has to do with the tillering needed to tune the shaft - a side-benefit is an absolutely rock solid hold all the way through the shot....

Once tuned, they put the arrows just as evenly out in the woods behind the bale as my PSEs do....

lee.


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## ar1220 (May 18, 2014)

Quick question after your done with the tillering do you go back to and re tie the cams or leave that and just reset the peep and nock set


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

ar1220 said:


> Quick question after your done with the tillering do you go back to and re tie the cams or leave that and just reset the peep and nock set


The article didn't say. One would have check timing to see. For sure the nocking point and peep might need corrected.......


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

SonnyThomas said:


> The article didn't say. One would have check timing to see. For sure the nocking point and peep might need corrected.......


Sonny. Try the tiller tuning at 90 meters (100 yrds). Will open your eyes to micro-tiller tuning. Pretty easy to see what a tiny adjustment to one limb bolt will do, to your 90 meter groups (100 yard groups). Of course, only try this if you have consistent 100 yard groups. Also of course, don't try this on a windy day.


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## nuts&bolts (Mar 25, 2005)

ar1220 said:


> Quick question after your done with the tillering do you go back to and re tie the cams or leave that and just reset the peep and nock set


Tiller tuning is ON PURPOSE, changing cam sync "timing". DO NOT re-time the cams, after tiller tuning. Re-time the cams, and you have just UN-done all your hard work. If you move the peep and nock set, then, REDO the tiller tuning AFTER you move the peep and nock set. Find the peep and nock set height that YOU want, for the average shooting distance. If you shoot field (out to 80 yards), then, set peep and nock for say 40 yards or 45 yards. THEN, do your tiller tuning at 90 meters (100 yards). When you dial in the group size at 90 meters (100 yards), with TILLER tuning, then, your shorter distance groups will be AMAZING.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks, Alan


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I have been tiller tuning since Frank Pearson's video in the 80s. I still find it helps with the newer bows. Frank says to change the nock point and peep after the tiller is tuned but I always figured that if the bow is shooting good groups and holding steady at up to 100 yards, why change anything. Tiller tuning is done after paper and bare shaft tuning. Tiller tuning changes the nocking point, making the arrow hit lower or higher depending on the limb that is changed, so make sure the arrow will hit the bale by moving the sight to compensate when at 100 yards. From 60 yards it should be no problem but the tiller tuning won't be as accurate.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

What caught my attention was "the bow is pulling you down below the spot or the bow is drawing you up above the spot." So possibly a fix for those who freeze or hold low? I don't know.

For me and the @$%@# hinge I found being relaxed I could aim in the dirt below the target and come up with no issues. Relaxed, not fighting muscles already tense and trying to raise the bow. Impossible feat that only jerking to raise can override and fling the arrow no where near where you want it.


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## *SWITCH (Nov 27, 2007)

Yeh interesting read with regard to the holding low/high fix. I might try that.

I use tiller tuning as the last stage on all bows regardless of cams, I tune at 50m for vertical spread reduction. It does change the way the bow holds slightly as well as the nock point. I don't normally reset nock point after any tiller change unless its more than an 1/8" different as I believe this change is what is contributing to the bow/arrows shooting better.

My Solocams usually need less than a quarter turn advance in top limb. My Bowtech Specialist needed half a turn or more, this stopped the bow "kicking up as the shot broke" issue I 
had.

only potential problem I can see with it is what if you decrease say the bottom tiller for a low dot hold at stage 1, but then have to increase for better results at stage 2 :mg:??…...:mg:


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## whiz-Oz (Jul 19, 2007)

The absolute best way to sort out your tiller tuning for your hold is to have someone else adjust your tiller without telling you what they've done. 
They do three things. Adjust up one turn, Adjust down one turn and doing absolutely nothing. 
They record what they do and don't show you. 
You record what you think has happened and don't show them. 

You don't even have to shoot an arrow. You just see how it affects your hold. 

You do it for 100 adjustments, never going more than one turn away from where the original tiller settings were. 

Then you get together with your accomplice and see how many times you were right about how it affected your hold. 

Doing it any other way will be biased towards what you think SHOULD happen. 

Without knowing what has happened, you'll have to really make decisions on what you notice. 

I guarantee that anyone who does this will change their opinions about tiller affecting hold.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

^^^ Not that I'd mess with my tiller, but a real good idea instead try this, try that, better do this or that again.


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## Mitox (Apr 21, 2019)

Great method but can be very time consuming


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## huteson2us2 (Jun 22, 2005)

I tiller tune as the last part of setting up a new bow. It takes an hour at most. I believe that it can be mental on my part, but if I shoot well once while standing on one foot, I would do it always. The belief is that it makes the bow shoot better for a person by angling the riser for the individual hold. For me, turning the bottom limb about a quarter turn in is right. SWITCH turns the top limb in. How can having someone else setting your tiller be right for you and your hold? 

It is a part of tuning and I would never have someone else tune my bow even though I tune for several other people that have no desire to do so themselves. I have tuned for winning pros in the past that can shoot but do not want to tune. I make the arrow go straight for me and the rest is the pros ability to always hit the spot. That is why they can pick anyone's bow up and shoot it better than the owner. I never had that ability myself. So unless you have that freakish ability or have no desire to shoot better, then it would be okay to have someone else do the nasty, boring, unpleasant duty of tuning your bow for you.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

^^^ I believe Whiz is taking the "did I feel a improvement" thing out of one's brain as in; "Yes, that worked and the person didn't change a thing.


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## okiebowdoc (Dec 22, 2009)

Like !!!


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