# Creep Tuning really works!



## last-in-line (Jul 28, 2004)

Just thought I'd pass on my experience. After waiting for a couple of months to be able to creep tune, not having access to a press, got to creep tune this afternoon. Put a horizontal strip of tape across my target and shot 6 arrows from hard against the stops and 6 from the begining of the valley. Got 2 good horizontal lines with about 5" separation at 20 yards. I twisted cables and saw the vertical spacing shrink and kept tinkering till they were as close as my talent would reveil at 20 yrds. I backed up to 30 yrds and still had about 2" so I twisted just the cable ends untill i couldn't see a difference in the hits. I shot a couple of groups and they have tightened for sure.

Many thanks to Javi and Griv for passing on such valuable info.

Now just need to do a little tiller tuning to get the bow to hold a little better.
Any suggestions?


----------



## Keith Thompson (Jul 17, 2005)

Please explain, I'm new: 


Why shoot from the beginning of the valley? 

What do you twist and how, what direction, etc.


----------



## herbeapuce (Nov 4, 2002)

this was written by Griv and should help you.

Quote:

"Here is a blurb that I wrote in another thread and it basically describes creep tuning and why it works and why it is needed. 


Nock travel has three factors, the measured center of the bow and the shooting center of the bow (plane of the arrow’s flight), and the shape of the cam systems. If your two cam bow is timed around the measured center of the bow and you shoot the bow through the measured center you will have level nock travel. The problem is you can’t really shoot an arrow effectively out of the measured center of the bow and hold the bow at the measured center. You could just hold it below the measured center and shoot the arrow out of the middle. This balance condition makes it very hard to aim as steady as possible and they do not recover well from muscle tremors. In my opinion, those handles that are all sight window are not a good design. 

The best method is to design the bow with great balance by setting the measured center of the bow between where you hold it and where the arrow flies through it. This creates a well balanced symmetrical riser design that works with the shooter and is very easy to control and the arrow is as close to the measured center as possible. Then when you Creep Tune your two cam bow, you will set up the nock travel to be behind the shooting center of the bow rather than the measured center. Usually this will cause the top cam to be a half twist advanced because the shooting center of the bow is ¼” above the measured center. 

Creep Tuning will automatically set your cam timing to the shooting center of the bow and give you the optimum nock travel condition. Creep Tuning is designed for Dual Cam Systems. However if your single cam system or Hybrid System has the straight and level travel that it says it has, you will get optimum results when the bow is tested. If not, Nock travel is present, and there are few options to adjust them to straighten it out. 

For those of you unfamiliar with Creep Tuning, here is a little review.

The Creep Tune Procedure 
The Creep Tune procedure is as follows: 

1. Set the timing as close as you can by eye (you don't have put a micrometer on it; just get as close as you can) 

2. Sight your bow in at twenty yards. 

3. Put a piece of masking tape on your target butt horizontally. In a pinch, you can use the top edge of a target face. 

4. Pull your bow into the wall as hard as you can and shoot arrow #1 at the tape. 

On the next shot, creep forward to the front of the valley and shoot arrow #2 at the tape. You make need to re-shoot these shots a couple of times to rule out bad shots. 

5. If your bow is in perfect time, both arrows will hit the tape or they will land on the same horizontal plane. (Level with the tape or on the tape) 

If the "creep" shot hits HIGH, TIGHTEN or SHORTEN the cable that connects to the BOTTOM cam. 
If the "creep" shot hits LOW, TIGHTEN or SHORTEN the cable that connects to the TOP cam. 

Make very small, one or two turn, adjustments a time. A little twist goes a long way. You can fine-tune your timing by repeating the test at forty yards. If you make an adjustment at this distance do not turn your cable more that a half a turn at a time. Too much adjustment at this distance can send an arrow over the target butt or in the dirt. When you have completed the test, your bow will be in perfect time, and given that your other accessories are adjusted properly, your bow is as accurate as it can possibly be."

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=49449&highlight=creep+tuning

end of Quote

herb.


----------



## last-in-line (Jul 28, 2004)

Thanks for the post herb. That's the one I used. 

Keith, the purpose is to make the bow more forgiving so that vertical hits are the same spot regardless of how hard you pull against the stops.


----------



## eugene1e® (Sep 24, 2005)

So this is for two cams only


----------



## Deezlin (Feb 5, 2004)

eugene1e® said:


> So this is for two cams only


I believe so. There is a newsletter from Shot-Hogg, which basically said that tiller tuning might be better for single cam bows. This method, I believe, will work on cam and a half's.


----------



## AllenRead (Jan 12, 2004)

From other posts here, I understand that creep tuning was originally used to get the cam syncronization fine tuned on the early 2 and 4 wheel bows.

Obviously, since a one cam bow cannot be syncronized with anything, it can't be used on them.

It's a good technique and thanks to Griv for the great instructions. :thumbs_up


----------



## boojo35 (Jul 16, 2005)

Did anyone ever stop to think that when you creep forward your string angle lessens which raises your peep sight in relation to your arrow which in turn makes you raise your sight up to compensate which makes you shoot high. Think about it. If you creep forward you will shoot high with a properly tuned bow because of the peep sight. This will make ya almost as crazy as paper tuning. Just my .02


----------



## snoot (Jan 31, 2004)

I will agree 110%. That is the case with any bow and creeping off. A lot of people or shooters believe that their bow actually shoots faster on the front of the valley when in reality it is the peep sight height off the arrow.


----------



## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Try creeping with a cam.5! It'll dislocate your shoulder! My slam.5 has the narrowest valley I've ever shot. So I guess you're always at the front of the valley.


----------



## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

XP35 said:


> Try creeping with a cam.5! It'll dislocate your shoulder! My slam.5 has the narrowest valley I've ever shot. So I guess you're always at the front of the valley.


That's cause you don't creep to the front... you pull hard into the wall to creep tune the Hybrid Hoyt cams...

*Creep or fine tuning the Hoyt Cam & ½
By Mike (Javi..) Cooper​*
It is a variation on the old stand by Creep tuning methods…
With the tiller set to even (limb bolts bottomed and backed out the same on both limbs to your shooting weight) Set the timing as close as you can by eye.
I like to start with my sight zeroed at 20 yards. 
Using ½ or ¾ inch masking put a horizontal line on your 20 yard target.
Shoot 3 or 4 arrows aiming at the tape, be sure to draw only to the wall do not pull into the limbs. Only use your good shots; the bad ones don’t count.
This is where the Cam & ½ differs from the two cam bow in creep tuning. Since there is no real valley you can’t creep into it. 
Now shoot 3 or 4 more arrows at the line, while drawing your bow hard into the cams (you’re over rotating the cams just a bit) this is what most people describe as the mushy felling on the cam & 1/2. Again use only your good shots.
If your bow is in perfect time all your shots will hit the line, and the mushy feeling will be almost unnoticeable. If the shots fired while pulling hard into the cams hit high, apply a ½ twist to the control cable.
If the shots fired while pulling hard into the cams hit low apply a ½ twist to the buss cable.

Repeat until all shots hit the tape….

If you want to tune it even closer; repeat at 30 or 40 yards….


----------



## XP35 (Oct 11, 2005)

Thanks, I'll try it. I've noticed my cams are not in perfect sync.


----------



## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

Maybe so Javi but the horizontal test is nothing more than a form of bow tuning and how to set the nock height. No twisting of cables required as long as the bow is set properly to specs to begin with. I do it from 15 and 20 yards and it works quit well. A vertical line from various distances is used to set the center shot.


----------



## JAVI (Jun 19, 2003)

nodog said:


> Maybe so Javi but the horizontal test is nothing more than a form of bow tuning and how to set the nock height. No twisting of cables required as long as the bow is set properly to specs to begin with. I do it from 15 and 20 yards and it works quit well. A vertical line from various distances is used to set the center shot.


It has nothing to do with setting nock height; that would be done with moving the nock, or (gasp) tiller tuning which is simply another way to move the nock. But yes, the methodology of using a horizontal line to determine the correction is similar.

Instead it fine tunes nock travel… use it if you want.... don't... if you choose not to... I'm not here to argue...


----------



## nodog (Mar 1, 2005)

Me either Javi. I'm a brain picker. You seem to have one worth picking. :tongue:


----------



## Plainsman (Dec 28, 2002)

last-in-line said:


> Thanks for the post herb. That's the one I used.


last-in-line, herbeapuce, 

Here is a web site that contains pretty much the same thing explained. 

Creep Tuning 

I had to go by the information via the site above cause at the time GRIV hadn't posted what you have available now.


----------



## stehawk (Aug 28, 2004)

boojo35 said:


> Did anyone ever stop to think that when you creep forward your string angle lessens which raises your peep sight in relation to your arrow which in turn makes you raise your sight up to compensate which makes you shoot high. Think about it. If you creep forward you will shoot high with a properly tuned bow because of the peep sight. This will make ya almost as crazy as paper tuning. Just my .02


I'm not here to argue but I'd like to take your thought process one step farther. If what you say is true then you'd never be able to get the arrows to hit the same line and would chase back and forth because the peep would continue to go back and forth. Actually, after creep tuning the arrows all hit the line.:wink: If what you say is true that couldn't happen.:darkbeer:


----------

