# What are reasons that my arrows swim in the air?



## Arrowwood (Nov 16, 2010)

Looks like your arrows are going to the right? 

At longer distances the fletching can stabilize even badly matched arrows.

If you're right-handed, the arrows may be too weak for your bow. You could try lighter points and/or shorter arrows.

We'd need lots more info about your setup to do much more than guess what's going on, though. Draw weight / length, arrow spine, length, point weight, feathers or vanes, rest or shelf, etc.


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## Thin Man (Feb 18, 2012)

"Fish-tailing" and "porpoising" are common words in the archery vernacular. So you're spot on in your reference to "swimming"!

This may not be form at all, but rather an arrow spine issue. If your arrow's spine is not appropriate for the bow's draw weight, you can get some fairly vicious side-to-side wagging know as fish tailing. (Porpoising is an up-and-down motion often due to the height of your nock point on the string.) You may also notice a tendency for the arrow to like going either left or right of the middle, in spite of your best aiming efforts!

Your arrow may not be obviously fish-tailing, but may simply be still in an overly aggressive wag before stabilizing ... that may explain the sideways hits at the closer distances. Your shots should be straight into the target even at these shorter distances, so I believe that spine is a good place to start the analysis. 

Form issues can contribute to odd flight, of course. But let's check the equipment match-up right off the bat. 

If you can provide some info on your bow model, draw weight, draw length, and type of arrow and points you are using, the fine archers of the forum will hop in and attempt to set you straight. They never fail!

Later.

(Holey Moley, Arrowwood - you jumped me while I was typing!)


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## sharpbroadhead (Feb 19, 2004)

The following is for a right handed shooter - the opposite would be true if you are left handed.

You need to tune - start by stripping the fletching off an arrow

Now - move your nock locator on your string up at least 1/4" from where it is now.

Shoot an arrow from 15 yards or so and watch the arrow in flight - or have someone else watch it - expect it to fly with the nock high for now - and that is ok (for now).

If the arrow is flying with the nock to the left - the arrows are too weak - you can fix this be either shortening the shaft (if possible), by decreasing the tip weight - or by getting a stiffer spined arrow

If the arrow is flying with the nock to the right - the arrows are too stiff - you can fix this by adding tip weight - using a longer shaft of the same spine - or by getting a weaker spined arrow.

Once you get an arrow flying reasonably straight - then lower your nock locator in very small increments till you find the sweet spot where most of the nock high is gone - some nock high is ok - and is better than any nock low.

good luck


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## longbowguy (Nov 14, 2004)

You have explained well what you see. Swimming. I sometimes call it wigwagging. It is an essential part of good archery. The arrow must 'swim' around the bow, wag its tail a few times and then fly straight to the target center. It varies with the stiffness of the arrow shaft, which must match the strength and the design of the bow. We call the measure of stiffness, the 'spine' of the arrow. If the spine is wrong the arrow will wigwag too much. If too stiff it will fly to the left. If too weak it will fly to the right. We measure spine in pounds which relates, imperfectly, to the draw weight of the bow. 

Your arrows are not correctly spined to your bow.

This may be compensated for by heavier or lighter arrow points, which are cheap. So it is wise to lay in a supply of different weights for tuning purposes. It is a tricky matter to tune your arrows just right. It would be helpful if you could find a veteran archer locally to help you. Otherwise tell us as much as you can about bow weight, arrows, their points, your draw length, the kind of bow, arrow length and we can help you get close. - lbg


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## gun (Apr 26, 2005)

Could he also build his strike plate out, assuming the arrows are too weak?


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## MGF (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm no expert here but my experience is that the release, and maybe other aspects of form/execution is everything. I say that based on shot to shot variations I've seen. A poor release, for one example, can get an arrow doing all sorts of crazy things.

My approach might not be right but, with a new shooter (or even myself if I think my shooting isn't going good) I don't worry much about tuning beyond using an arrow that "should" be close in spine and a "reasonable" knock point location. It seems to me you can start tuning closer once you see some consistency.

I bring this up because the OP sounds new and says, the arrows go in at an angle for a while and then straighten out. The tune isn't changing. The shooting is changing. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's pretty hard to get a bow tuned better than the shooter is tuned.

I primarily tune by making sure my bare shafts group with my fletched shafts and later by making sure my broad heads group with my fletched field tips. If groups are big, tuning can only be course...the smaller the groups, the finer the tune.

Am I all wet here?


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## vaguru (Jan 2, 2003)

One thing no one mentioned is the release. If you are "plucking" the string on release or using too much pressure on the bottom finger, the same results occur. 

Before any arrow matching can be truly accomplished, a clean release is mandatory.


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## rembrandt (Jan 17, 2004)

Also, check your release. I had some fishtail like that but then have some straight so I came to the conclusion that it was the way I was releasing the arrow. I was pulling at release away from the face......


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## barebowguy (Feb 1, 2009)

sharpbroadhead said:


> The following is for a right handed shooter - the opposite would be true if you are left handed.
> 
> You need to tune - start by stripping the fletching off an arrow
> 
> ...


I think that this is the first post from you that I completely agree with.


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## Easykeeper (Jan 2, 2003)

Most likely a tuning issue or rough release but keep in mind a cross wind will cause your arrows to fishtail too.

Here's a good tuning link, basically you are playing with length, spine, and point weight to get bare shafts to group with fletched...http://bowmaker.net/tuning.htm


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## bobsbarricades (Dec 31, 2011)

SO. MUCH. INFORMATION @[email protected]

I'm gonna read that link Easykeeper, seems like lots more to know is there. 

I used my arrows on my, unknown poundage, longbow to make sure my form was as good as I knew (and adding in the strand of thought about "plucking" strings to make sure there was uniform release [pulled back upon release; not the string, just my arm]). The results.

at 6 yards









at 12 yards









The arrows are hand fletched (poorly without tool) on what I assume are aluminum arrows? They're 30" fired from my longbow off-the-knuckle with field points. Pretty heavy field points compared to teh rest of the arrow. The unknown poundage of the bow is because it's a handmade one made for kids. 22#@22" - but it's 58" long (i accidentally measured 62" in another post here) and I've been pulling it back my full 30" draw for over and year. The string WAS too long by a mile offering zero pull on the bow once strung....and decided this morning to just twist the poo out of the flemish twist string on thereand managed to get about a 4" brace height out of it. Shot better than before  So who knows the poundage but I would venture to say somewhere around 30# if gauging by my 45# recurve.

Can these guys really be not spined strong enough for even a 30# bow?


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## Long Rifle (Dec 8, 2011)

LOL, if those are the arrows in question I'm thinking you're expecting way too much from way too little. Spine works both ways, you can be overspined or underspined. Both will cause the problems you've described but I'd imagine there's a lot more going on here than meets the eye....:darkbeer:


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## bobsbarricades (Dec 31, 2011)

hahaha, O I agree, the fletching on the yellow/white arrow is coming off tonight and refletched per the other two. One of the yellow arrows' tips is rusted and won't screw in or out anymore. The camo truflite arrow is consistently an oddman out but I can't tell why. It feels identical. 

Anyway it's what I've got to work with so I gotta make best as I can. Maybe a bit of learning will help.....somehow ^_^


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## Long Rifle (Dec 8, 2011)

At first I was gonna tell you to go to WalMart, get 2-3 $3.00 apiece Exacta carbons, the longest shaft you can get in the weakest(35-45 I think) spine they have. At least with them everything would be consistent. They're actually made by Carbon Express and while not high dollar they're a decent shaft for a beginner. I strip the vanes off of them and refletch with 4" TrueFlights for stump shooting and goofing around. Problem is that Wally only caters to compounds and I don't think they have anything that would spine low enough for the rig you're trying to shoot......


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## bobsbarricades (Dec 31, 2011)

doesn't the advice seem to point at the arrows being TOO stiff? Overspined? Still haven't read through that post yet.


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## bobsbarricades (Dec 31, 2011)

update - I think it's all form. almost entirely. 

For me it seems some of it is my bow arm and a certain level of tension. I saw a video that slowed down showing the bow move in the archers grip to allow the arrow less of a molested flight. At this point I only know that brickwalling my arm helps reduce. 

The other part I'm noticing is making sure to release with my shoulder/delts/lats and my finger extensors. That helps but there's an uneven bit of pressure on my fingers that I think might be inhibiting the effectiveness of my back releasing. 

In any event focusing on these 3 things has cleared up a good bit of swimming. @6 yards the arrows are much straighter.


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## ArcherFletch (Jul 8, 2012)

+1 to the posters that are commenting on your release, I found the same spines of arrows sometimes swam, sometimes didn't, all based on release. 

If you haven't already, read through itbeso's thread on shooting fingers he's got some really good tips! It's sticky'd at the top of the forum


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