# Point Weight for 3D



## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Bows are fast enough and arrows are light enough that as long as you have the draw length, point weight is a necessity to stay under ASA limits. In the IBO, you'll see lighter points as part of lighter arrow combos.... but amongst the best shooters you'll also find higher draw weights so they dont have to drop arrow weight too low.

My Supra Max runs 285 with 444 grain arrows at 66#. That is with a 160 up front. 

My Dominators run 276 with 403 grain arrows at 64#...that's an XCutter with 140 up front 

I don't want light arrows or light points. The weight is more forgiving and the point weight specifically helps reduce kick outs.

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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

To me you just need to shoot a arrow that gives you the speed that you want to shoot at the poundage you want to pull, I have experimented with a variety or point weights and arrow shafts and I can't tell a difference in the overall accuracy or grouping ability of any of the combinations I have tried. Right now I am shooting a x cutter at 344 grains with a 100 grain point up front and they are group tuned to the same hole out of a hooter shooter and they are grouping just fine out to 70 yds which is where I have been shooting this week in preparation for a iron buck contest that I won yesterday.

I watched some guys in open a this season with super light points up front in their series 22 shafts and they seemed to shoot really good also, to me shooting 3d you can pretty much shoot anything you want and get good results but when you become a field archer shooting in cross winds then having a arrow that is skinny with a little more weight up front could hold its line better but for us 3d guys in the woods I just don't think it is a issue.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

My x cutters gave me 293fps at 61lbs draw weight and they weighed 344 grains, with a 250 spine I think that I had a shaft that could easily handle a 120 grain point or more if I had needed to slow the bow down and still shoot my desired 60lb pound bow.


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## wvbowhunter06 (Feb 13, 2010)

tim gillingham runs 50 grain points in his triple xxx


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## williejr (Jul 28, 2008)

I was wondering if you could have to much front weight? ? Thought about trying out 160 grain out front


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## 5ringking (May 25, 2005)

100 grain points up front on my GT X-cutters... super tight groups out to 50 yards (my groups open up alittle after that... Im not a PRO) and Ive never shot an ASA target out past 50 yrds anyways


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## Keesey (Oct 20, 2009)

Someone told me that a heavier point gives it a little more arse going into the target and allowing it to deflect less


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## Tater1985 (Apr 28, 2008)

Keesey said:


> Someone told me that a heavier point gives it a little more arse going into the target and allowing it to deflect less


This is true also. Basically, if you are happy with the speed you can get with a little more weight up front, it's not going to do anything but help, can't see it every hurting you.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

wvbowhunter06 said:


> tim gillingham runs 50 grain points in his triple xxx


 i find that extrodinarily hard to believe. big fat stiff arrows usually fly better with a lil more foc.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> i find that extrodinarily hard to believe


That is what he won the IBo worlds with. 

There are plenty of other examples of XXX winning with light points in the amateur classes of ASA too.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

OK, IBO, you use screw in points, what about the insert? a arrow like that the inserts weight is 70 gr more or less, so he's shooting 110 to 130 gr total weight in the nose


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> OK, IBO, you use screw in points, what about the insert? a arrow like that the inserts weight is 70 gr more or less, so he's shooting 110 to 130 gr total weight in the nose


You don't run screw in points in pro class....or any other open class that I know of.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

then he aint shooting 50 gr only in the nose of long GT XXX's theyre wouldnt be any foc


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> then he aint shooting 50 gr only in the nose of long GT XXX's theyre wouldnt be any foc


Um. Yes, he is. And you're right.... there is no FOC. 

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## schmel_me (Dec 17, 2003)

There is a video I think bowjunky. Where tim talks about his arrow setup, the arrow actually no front over center its almost exactly evenly balanced. I agree foc is good but there are plenty of guys/gals that run 50-70grains up front and shoot very very well.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

An arrow cannot be perfectly balanced it must have FOC to know which end is up. If an arrow is perfectly balance or too low FOC , it will fly sideways or want to turn arse over end.


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> An arrow cannot be perfectly balanced it must have FOC to know which end is up. If an arrow is perfectly balance or too low FOC , it will fly sideways or want to turn arse over end.


Tell that to the guy who just won the IBO worlds with an arrow near zero FOC.

I bet he'll talk to you about it if you call him at GT.

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## RickT (Mar 14, 2009)

Tim also shot 50 targets during the Worlds and never shot an 8 !!!


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

lmao, there is a AT post by Dan Boone in a thread called "how to pick a Gold tip arrow for 3D and other venues by Tim Gillingham". Tim is quoted as saying he would not recommend any lighter point than 100 gr for the 3XXX


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## athomPT (Dec 14, 2008)

I shoot 120 gr out of my current setup to slow speed and soften spine at the same time


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> lmao, there is a AT post by Dan Boone in a thread called "how to pick a Gold tip arrow for 3D and other venues by Tim Gillingham". Tim is quoted as saying he would not recommend any lighter point than 100 gr for the 3XXX


He strayed from his own advice and won the worlds. 

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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

he probably said 150 grains and you got so much cake in your ear , you didnt hear it right. the longer the arrow the more FOC you need, Ive met Tim and Im 6ft 3" and I look up to him litterally, he is probably 6'6", 6' 7", no way he's shooting just 50 gr in any arrow let alone a 3XXX


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## tmorelli (Jul 31, 2005)

Pincher said:


> he probably said 150 grains and you got so much cake in your ear , you didnt hear it right. the longer the arrow the more FOC you need, Ive met Tim and Im 6ft 3" and I look up to him litterally, he is probably 6'6", 6' 7", no way he's shooting just 50 gr in any arrow let alone a 3XXX


You're a genius. Call him and ask for yourself.

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## Garceau (Sep 3, 2010)

Pincher said:


> he probably said 150 grains and you got so much cake in your ear , you didnt hear it right. the longer the arrow the more FOC you need, Ive met Tim and Im 6ft 3" and I look up to him litterally, he is probably 6'6", 6' 7", no way he's shooting just 50 gr in any arrow let alone a 3XXX


50 it was.....well set up bow, repeatable form and it can happen.

Fella won out of ASA semi pro wit alum arrows and 70 up front


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## panther08 (Jan 7, 2008)

While a light tip is not advised with the right tuning and repeatable form it can be done. I too know a few that shoot very low to no foc. And Tim knows all the ins and out about arrows so...


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## Keesey (Oct 20, 2009)

athomPT said:


> I shoot 120 gr out of my current setup to slow speed and soften spine at the same time


What's your draw weight?


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## 918hoytman918 (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm shooting a xcutter at 27" ctc with a 130gr tip. Pulling 61lbs. At a shoot in ft smith not long ago bobby ketcher said 140gr points are pretty common in the pro class.


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## Pincher (Jul 20, 2013)

Im shooting Series22s currently with 120 gr. I did shoot X Cutters with 110 gr and they flew fine at 67# when ASA was 280 max and then I found out I was getting 292fps, so when i cranked my bow down to the low 60ish to get 283-284 fps the xCs were unstable, they would often times turn and fly sideways, pretty wild looking on a range i can tell you. How a longer draw guy can get a heavier, stiffer shaft which requires more FOC to fly straight with almost no FOC...? I guess I will e mail TG?


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## ukxbow (Aug 17, 2018)

Pincher said:


> An arrow cannot be perfectly balanced it must have FOC to know which end is up. If an arrow is perfectly balance or too low FOC , it will fly sideways or want to turn arse over end.


Drag is important. The arrows leaves the bow forwards and the vast majority of drag is at the fletching end, which is why low FOC can work fine. However, 50yds vs. 70yds might make a huge difference, as the parachute effect might ruin things at long range with low point weight. 

People get too excited by FOC and forget the experimentation part. If it shoots well, it shoots well. High FOC is not a pre-requisite for that.


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## lowg08 (Jan 15, 2016)

I shoot 120 up front on my x cutters but I am only shooting 385gr at 262fps. The arrows I shoot just are the perfect set up for my bow. BUT my son shoots gt ultra light entradas with a 100 gr tip. I moved him up from 80 and with a heavier FOC he has much tighter more consistent groups. Just I guess like your drawers. It’s up to ya


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