# New Formula Xi



## Bob Furman (May 16, 2012)

And let's not forget the Xceed


https://youtu.be/fne-rbNZwdE


You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.


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## sevanseriesta (Jul 7, 2017)

Will the string tension system fit in the original Formula X or do you have to go to the new riser?


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## bruce_m (Jan 23, 2012)

I’m sure you need a new riser.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

sevanseriesta said:


> Will the string tension system fit in the original Formula X or do you have to go to the new riser?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The two systems don't appear interchangeable.

https://hoyt.com/recurve-bows/formula-x-riser/technology

https://hoyt.com/recurve-bows/formula-xi-riser/technology

doesn't look like the X limb pocket is milled deep enough to accept the Xi system.


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## sevanseriesta (Jul 7, 2017)

Yeah I see the limb pockets do look different


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

sevanseriesta said:


> Yeah I see the limb pockets do look different
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure it would be in their best interest to have made those inserts so they could fit the X.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

While we're on the subject of new and improved toys, any news from W&W regarding new offerings? Seems W&W wants the carbon riser market, not much change in the aluminum riser arena. The AFT replaced the AXT, but other than assuming the new design is stronger, faster, more accurate, etc, etc, etc, the limb pocket is the same, the geometry is the same, grips are interchangeable, so other than drooling when I see an AFT in all black what's happening at W&W?


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

I dont understand the new pocket system at all. Seems very gimmicky to me. I somehow doubt anyone will be able to sense a difference between the three positions. They say its too adjust "string tension". Based on the video, they appear to alter the attack angle of the limb in the pocket. Last I checked, thats also what your tiller bolts do...


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## Rael84 (Feb 22, 2016)

This would offer both a greater range of adjustment as well as change the riser's deflex so it goes beyond what tiller bolts can do.


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## GoldArcher403 (Jun 25, 2014)

Rael84 said:


> This would offer both a greater range of adjustment as well as change the riser's deflex so it goes beyond what tiller bolts can do.


Greater range of what? The tiller bolts have way more vertical adjustment than those little sliders do. And you can get greater deflex by driving the bolts in as well. Its a good idea but I guess what Im asking is, why? This doesn't do anything for an archer besides marginally alter draw weight to simulate different "feelings" of the limbs.


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## Farfletched (Mar 6, 2018)

Doesn’t this make your formula riser more like an ilf by shortening the distance between the bolt and the point where the limbs flex?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Farfletched said:


> Doesn’t this make your formula riser more like an ilf by shortening the distance between the bolt and the point where the limbs flex?


Not really. The distance between the limb fork (tiller bolt) and the dovetail remains the same. Only the pivot point moves.

rbishop, I promise you that elite archers will be able to tell the difference in the position of those pivot points. And they will also probably wonder if it's worth the trouble the whole time they are re-tuning their bow.


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## bruce_m (Jan 23, 2012)

I'll throw out the thought.

The pivot point to increase tension makes the bow feel like it has shorter limbs. (snappier etc..) 

Using a 70" bow, the increased tension on the string makes it feel more like a a 68" bow, without changing string angle for an archer with longer draw.


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## Farfletched (Mar 6, 2018)

I see what you mean. But I would think that all the dovetail does is locate the limbs in the limb pocket and stop them moving left or right or popping out. The critical distance in the bows geometry is the distance between the 2 points of contact. The dovetail at the end and the fulcrum around which the bow bends when it’s drawn. In a formula bow this distance is longer than in an ilf. I wonder how close to an ilf setting the bow is with the blocks set at their shortest position.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

That's kinda the idea. A while back, Hoyt started making risers with more aggressive geometry than the tried-and-true Earl Hoyt Jr. design. Some archers benefited from that (short draw) while some archers (apes like me) probably needed even less deflex in the riser to keep the limbs from stacking at the back. So I see this as Doug's answer to manufacturing risers with different geometry. One riser to provide multiple limb pocket geometries. Not a bad idea. I can see why they created it. Again, the average consumer really has no business messing with it, and the elites will probably either leave it alone, or curse it as they chase a tune 3 weeks before their next important tournament. LOL As with most things, too many options tends to be counterproductive in such a mental sport.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Farfletched said:


> I see what you mean. But I would think that all the dovetail does is locate the limbs in the limb pocket and stop them moving left or right or popping out. The critical distance in the bows geometry is the distance between the 2 points of contact. The dovetail at the end and the fulcrum around which the bow bends when it’s drawn. In a formula bow this distance is longer than in an ilf. I wonder how close to an ilf setting the bow is with the blocks set at their shortest position.


That's easy to measure. You're not wrong.


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## Farfletched (Mar 6, 2018)

Yep, if I had an ILF bow I certainly would. But I don’t hence the pondering. Actually only interested because Hoyt having promoted Formula as having performance advantages are now giving you the option to make your Formula bow behave more like an ilf and marketing that as a performance advantage... Personally I think the extra adjustability if your good enough and like fiddling is a good thing. But marketing departments sure have short memories.


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## MrPhil (Aug 14, 2017)

Farfletched, the setting where the pivot point ist right at the dovetail is pretty much the position you find for the Faktor and Prodigy RX and all other Formula risers (which have the HP geometry, though). The pivot point was recently moved to the end of the pocket with the Formula X, and now you are able to switch between these positions. This changes the effective working length of the limb and thus how they feel and stack, but I doubt everyone will notice a big difference.

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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

So in short, the soft setting on the Xi is closer to “normal” RX Formula. The “Performace” setting is longer span - which is like the X?

Who knows, hard to imagine, if we want to know we need to try one. 

Stretch


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## MartinOttosson (May 31, 2011)

The effect of the string tension system must vary depending on what setting you have on your tiller bolts. More so with the ILF and less with the Formula. If you have the bolts cranked all the way in, the limb bottom is in line with the base plate and when you move the rocker point inwards all you do is increase the flex of the limb by shortening the support area. If you instead do the same adjustment with the limb bolt wind all the way out, it seems to me that you will change limb angle in the pocket to give less draw weight AND shortening the support area so you will get a double effect. My guess is that the effect of string tension adjustment goes from almost not noticable at maximum tiller bolt setting to quite significant at the minimum tiller bolt setting. If you feel it, ofcourse the tune will change. Why the hell do you want a adjustment system that don´t effect the tune at the first place? Denton for sure messed that part up in the video. 

I also noted the fact that they once again bring up the lower stress forces on the limb as a important feature in the Formula Xi, while at the same time praising a system that will increase the stress forces on the already overstressed (if you listen to what they say in the Formula presentation) ILF Exceed. As said earlier Hoyt makes great products and especially risers (if are lucky enough to get a straight unit) but they seriously need to rethink their marketing strategy to appeal both to the non-critical majority and to the more interested tech crowd. Or to put into what they understand better: It is time for something revolutionary in Hoyt Target Recurve marketing. At the moment it´s like watching Men in tights. I just can´t take it seriously, no matter how good the new risers may be.


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## MrPhil (Aug 14, 2017)

UK_Stretch said:


> So in short, the soft setting on the Xi is closer to “normal” RX Formula. The “Performace” setting is longer span - which is like the X?
> 
> Who knows, hard to imagine, if we want to know we need to try one.
> 
> Stretch


This is exactly the case, nothing hard to imagine here.
Comparing draw curves for the different settings would be very interesting, though.

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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

MrPhil said:


> This is exactly the case, nothing hard to imagine here.
> Comparing draw curves for the different settings would be very interesting, though.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem SM-G960F mit Tapatalk


I mean hard to imagine the feel, not the mechanics


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## Mika Savola (Sep 2, 2008)

rjbishop said:


> I dont understand the new pocket system at all. Seems very gimmicky to me. I somehow doubt anyone will be able to sense a difference between the three positions


I doubt it too :laugh: But the marketing dept had to come up with something new... Seriously, I wouldn't use the two lower positions at all, it's best to have limb slot and support points furthest from each other, stability wise


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## Greg Mort (Aug 27, 2020)

All of these thoughts are great and I love that each person has taken time to ponder the question about "String Tension" in the new Hoyt XI. *First* remember anyone selling anything, running shoes, cars, fashion, must create and keep creating new items to generate the "GOTTA get the NEW ONE" syndrome. Also remember, (as my archery coach told me) "an elite archer can beat you with a stick from the woods and a kite string" A bit of exaggeration, true, but the point is well taken. You can try the theory claimed by XI design using an arrow, Hold it down on the tip with your finger, place a fulcrum at a point up the arrow towards the fletched end, say,* one inch*. Now press the nock end an note the resistance. Next move the fulcrum to say four inches from the tip end. You will easily see that the nearer the fulcrum to the tip the less or softer the feel at the nock end. So the sensation of less or more is real. This is actually different than just changing the tiller height. So here's the next factor to consider. The human mind and body are complex and subject to suggestion. In a test of random people looking at an artificial star in a telescope who were asked to press a button when they saw the star "WINK" off then on. Every single contestant at some point pressed the button even though the star never went off. WHY? The power of suggestion. Now also to think about, the adaptability of the human mind and body. Some time ago after struggling with getting to the clicker I picked up my wife's bow )of less poundage, shot it and found, "Wow that was now problem to get to the clicker" so I ran out an purchased some new limbs several pounds below what I had been shooting. Problem Solved ! Not so fast Greg. In short order I was back in the same boat. My muscles had diminished in strength in short order, not having to deal with the original weight. So lets say the moving of the fulcrum does alter the tension at some point during the shot cycle. Will the mind body correct as to lose the sensation of smooth? One final note. you can (perhaps) try this "Technology" as I have on your existing set up. I have a SF riser (275.00) that I made a pair of thin shims to alter the fulcrum point more toward the tiller bolt. Easy to do and I am sure that I felt a "Softer" sensation right off the bat. Or did I ? After a few ends that new fresh feeling was gone. Humm ? very curious indeed. Did I just safe* $ 900.00 *_Thanks,_ Greg


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## UK_Stretch (Mar 22, 2006)

As I now own an Xi I can absolutely say that there is a noticeable difference especially when you go from extreme to extreme. It is also measurable with a bow scale during the initial part of the draw (but not at full draw). I can’t remember the exact numbers (sorry getting old) but my bow hit 15# at around 15 3/4” with the ”comfort” setting whereas at the Performance setting it was about 15”.

The performance setting goes with the description, most noticeably the sight pin was more stable and the shot more punchy (not HP geometry punchy but punchier). I loved this setting but it completely messed my clicker control. So for best results I shoot the softest setting that gives me the worst float and probably the least clean feel after the shot.

I will caveat all of that with the fact that I am managing an injury so not shooting anything like high volume so fitness may play a part (now back at around 41#). I could probably get the clicker control back by dropping 1/2# but not the stability of aim. The clicker control is probably exaggerated as I have also moved from a 72” bow to a 70” so the jump to the performance setting is quite a lot.

If I was going to compete I’d set it up using the Performance setting and just get myself sorted around that. The clicker issue would just take time, the steadier hold would be worth points. As I am just flinging for fun the softest setting will stay for a while.

As an aside it is the straightest bow I have had from Hoyt for quite a while and setting it up was very easy. Can only shoot 18m at the lowest rest mount position and even then I can only just see the pin (x10) So I would be stuffed if I wanted to shoot field. For indoor I’ll probably have to shoot aluminium arrows Or a different riser. The sight window on the 25” Formula bows is very short when you have a 32”+ draw. I guess I’d need an Exceed to shoot field with a Hoyt.

Is it worth the money? Depends how much money you have. I love it. It’s pretty. It’s shiny. It’s straight. And I like the colour. I have no regrets. But I could probably shoot the same score with the Hoyt Avalon I have in the loft. If the Xi came out on top by a few points it would probably be because of the Velos limbs.

All just opinion based on my experience.

Stretch


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