# Thinking about going to drive by and trigger punching.



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I have been shooting a hinge release for about 12 years and with my float it looks like that at best I will just be a mediocre shooter. I have shot the hinge so long that I have a hard time pulling a trigger. It doesn't matter if the trigger is my index release or my rifle. I just can't jerk the trigger. I often wonder if I needed to jerk the trigger to get off a quick shot what would happen.

So if I get out my index release and start jerking and hammering the trigger, what can I expect to happen to my shooting?


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

You'll have good days where you'll be great. Then you'll have bad days where you'll be horrible. The horrible days and how you take them mentally is what determines if you'll have any more good days, and how few and far in between. 

On the bad days you'll be all over the place because your body will be over correcting and not timing the shot correctly. It'll put arrows way off the center. If you develop anxiety and frustration through this and start thinking you'll always hit off center, you'll develop target panic and become jumpy and fall apart and the good days won't happen anymore because of the mental block.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

I'd be working on my float.
Really experiment with the draw length. Playing with different string loop lengths is the easiest, fastest way to adjust it. It takes time. You have to really give the new length a chance in order to see the difference. Draw length has a lot to do with float.
Muscle tension at full draw is something most people could work on.
I need to be physically used to shooting my bow first and foremost.
Then, do some work on a blank bale, eyes closed, target at eye level.
Concentrating on relaxing as much as is possible. 
You can also use the bale to build a repeatable blueprint for your breathing pattern during the shot sequence. Striving for the same pattern from shot to shot... once you've decided on what works best... but first, experimenting with how the different patterns effect your float. Are you steadier with your lungs half full? 3/4 full? Nearly empty?
Lastly, you can try different stabilizer configurations. There's only so much that you can practically do on a hunting bow, but it's still a worthwhile pursuit in regard to pin float.

For learning to shoot quickly for hunting, you can practice that... although a hinge doesn't work very well. Someone counting and limiting your time to aim, for instance.
It could be dangerous to start messing around with your shot.
I don't do it. I fought rushing my shot for years. I'm not going to put that kind of pressure on myself. In my mind, if the animal doesn't give me enough time, I don't have a shot to begin with.


----------



## AJ the TP Guru (Jul 29, 2011)

Gee, April 1 snuck up on me.


----------



## mike 66 (Jan 21, 2010)

jerking hammering the trigger. YOU KNOW WHATS GONNA HAPPEN you miss.:third:


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

AJ the TP Guru said:


> Gee, April 1 snuck up on me.


Please do not ridicule the questions in the Coaches Corner. It may result in members not posting questions for fear of this ridicule. 
Thank you,
Allen


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I tried triggering the hinge and I didnot shoot any better so I will have to come up with another scheme.

Let the target panic guru make fun. I may need his help if my living ever hinges on shooting perfect scores.


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I normally get on target and then slowly engage the firing sequence. After my trigging of the hinge did not work like I wanted,I tried getting on target and then very agressively running the firing engine. The fast agressive technique seemed to work good. But like many changes it may not work the next time.

Trying these little things keeps shooting fun. You would think that after forty five years of shooting that I would have tried it all but there always seems to be some little thing for me to experiment with.


----------



## Ray Ray (Aug 1, 2005)

There is more to shooting well , than just shooting a hinge. You need to follow a good shot sequence & your bow most be set up well for you. DW,DL, & balanced well.


----------



## Ray Ray (Aug 1, 2005)

Another thing, at 4H a lot of our new kids were stuck shooting 6" groups at 10 yards. This is with Genesis bows with no sights. We hung ping pong balls up on the target for them. You know every kid hit the ball at 10 yards & 3/4 of them hit the ball at 18 yards. I say this to bring up the old saying "Aim Small Miss Small" They were flinging arrows & having fun, but when they aimed at the ball their groups shrunk. You could see the difference.
So aiming at the yellow will not produce the same results as aiming for the center of the X.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

jim p said:


> I normally get on target and then slowly engage the firing sequence. After my trigging of the hinge did not work like I wanted,I tried getting on target and then very agressively running the firing engine. The fast agressive technique seemed to work good. But like many changes it may not work the next time.
> 
> Trying these little things keeps shooting fun. You would think that after forty five years of shooting that I would have tried it all but there always seems to be some little thing for me to experiment with.


I guess I'm not certain what you're trying to accomplish.
If you are shooting paper or 3-D for score, there will never be a need to shoot quickly or time the shot... short of pop up 3-D, maybe. 
Pin float is crucial.

For hunting, there IS a small advantage in the ability to command shot timing. I'm sure you know... there are times when your window for the shot is small. This is not something that is conducive to hinge shooting.

Learning to use a trigger to occasionally command the release, while maintaining the ability to achieve a surprise release on those shots that do not require timing, is something you can learn to do.
Pin float is still crucial.

Anytime there is a change in your shot as significant as this... you want to transition on a blank bale with your eyes closed.


----------



## catcherarcher (Sep 23, 2014)

DO NOT START PUNCHING!!! It will lead to TP. That is a road you don't want to go down. I have been there and know. Learn to shoot your hinge and experiment as said. It will be better.


----------



## da white shoe (Mar 10, 2009)

catcherarcher said:


> DO NOT START PUNCHING!!! It will lead to TP. That is a road you don't want to go down. I have been there and know. Learn to shoot your hinge and experiment as said. It will be better.


It is against my better judgment to advise someone to command their trigger, but it can be done without punching or hearing a "now" command in your head. The key is to use the same back tension that's used for a surprise release and just speed it up... a lot.
I've used this technique for years.


----------



## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

jim p said:


> ...After my trigging of the hinge did not work like I wanted...


One thing that helps hinge triggering work better is to be sure the release is held in your hand exactly the same on every shot. Even the smallest inconsistency makes a difference.

da white shoe & RCR-III are giving you great advice.


----------



## RCR_III (Mar 19, 2011)

You need to re train how you're approaching things. You're focusing on target results and end results and allowing what you see to control your thought process. You can't have a perfectly centered still pin. It's not going to happen. So that has to leave your thought process. What you need to do is start building a platform to prove to yourself that you've done everything you can to get the littlest float as possible. Whatever size that may be. This is a step by step process from stance, form, draw length, loop length, adn studying the float patterns and timing you get. Then once you've done all you can, you start over with the hinge set up and re direct how you hold it. How you put pressure into the hinge. Then you need to use the information you have from studying your float to fine tune hinge speed to go off during the window where your float is the smallest and most still it'll be. There will be a few seconds during your shot sequence where this will happen. Then working on how you execute with the hinge. Different ways have pro's and con's. You may need to change how you're doing it and have a back up method as well to keep you firing consistently day to day. 

All of this is ground work to go to the next step. Which is changing how you think through the shot process. You have the confidence in the process previously. You know you've done everything you can to get the smallest float your body will produce. Use that and know that if you do your part in execution that you'll hit the target within your float pattern. You should already know where that is, and keep a realistic view of scores from that. Now, focus on the feel of the shots. Your execution. This is what you can control. Your perfect scores are now going to be how many perfect feeling shots you make. This starts with up close drills to build confidence in the process. So that your brain starts seeing that when you execute a perfect FEELING shot, then the arrow hits wihtin the float you provide. Starting at maybe, 5 yards. Shooting one shot at a time at 5 yards build a shot sequence. It builds repeatability. It builds confidence in the process. Once you have no jerks or off shots at 5 yards consistently, then step back 2 more yards and repeat. Keep doing this till you're out to 20. And DO NOT switch back and forth between short and long games. That will re start the whole process and kill your mental function. 

This drill does multiple things, but the biggest benefit you get from it is allowing your subconcious to start controlling the finer movements and align you and break your shot at the same time. This is how archers may be shaking and moving a lot during execution, but still drill the middle. The brain has been developed and taught that the end game is the arrow in the middle. So as long as you allow the subconcious to control when the shot breaks with when your body is lined up in the middle, you'll have better results. When you try to control this process, as you are now, you over correct. The time it takes for you to visually process something and then put it into motor functions is too great and you move too much and you shoot yourself in the foot so to speak. 

Now, this isn't to say you stand up there and just hold and hope for the shot to happen. You are active in the shot execution process. But you are not controlling.


jim p said:


> I normally get on target and then slowly engage the firing sequence. After my trigging of the hinge did not work like I wanted,I tried getting on target and then very agressively running the firing engine. The fast agressive technique seemed to work good. But like many changes it may not work the next time.
> 
> Trying these little things keeps shooting fun. You would think that after forty five years of shooting that I would have tried it all but there always seems to be some little thing for me to experiment with.


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

Thanks for the comments. I will keep trying to get my float better. I will keep working on my form.


----------



## Hondov65 (Jan 16, 2013)

jim p said:


> I have been shooting a hinge release for about 12 years and with my float it looks like that at best I will just be a mediocre shooter. I have shot the hinge so long that I have a hard time pulling a trigger. It doesn't matter if the trigger is my index release or my rifle. I just can't jerk the trigger. I often wonder if I needed to jerk the trigger to get off a quick shot what would happen.
> 
> So if I get out my index release and start jerking and hammering the trigger, what can I expect to happen to my shooting?


You should shoot a message to a member here that goes by the screen name *Padgett* he has helped me transition from a wrist release to a handheld thumb release he has help many others too he has a roadmap to guide you. I've even heard Ike from _Ikeoutdoors.com_ mention his name also. He may require you to send pictures of your grip, anchor, stance he is very complete and will get you started right down the correct path. He too shoots a hinge release.


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I had a good day of shooting today.

A few days ago I swung my rear stabilizer to the side a good bit which made my bow lean to the left. With this lean I need to twist my hand to the right to keep the bow level. This moves my bow arm elbow to the left out of the way of the string. It just seems to help me be more stable and my float decreased.

I have to shoot the bow this way for a while to see if my hold continues to be stable and the arrows keep going into the 10 ring.


----------



## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

jim p said:


> Thanks for the comments. I will keep trying to get my float better. I will keep working on my form.


Hello
Float is brought on by what you transfer to the hook.
A wider hook has way less float. And a Ball :zip: :wink: [ Later

For me I put my scope dot on the target center spot. After showing my eye where I located my scope dot
I burn the X with concentration till the shot breaks. From the time you start raising your bow to draw to anchor. Aim and execute the shot 13 to 15 seconds over 15 let down.[ Later


----------



## Unk Bond (Aug 1, 2004)

Unk Bond said:


> Hello
> Float is brought on by what you transfer to the hook.
> A wider hook has way less float. And a Ball :zip: :wink: [ Later
> 
> ...


=================

Little add on.

Quote = A wider hook has way less float.
Meaning
A wider hook say 3/8 or a half inch spread hook on the D loop steadies the the view of ones sight picture while aiming .
You might think of it it this way. One finger on the bow string or 2 or 3 now gives way to a steadier balance.
That transfers less movement to ones sight picture. 

End weight on the end of the the stabilizer brings on more down front resistance. 
In turn giving and allowing the release hook resistance pressure to balance to and activate from.. 
One needs to experiment with there stabilizer end weight. [ Later

Also a short piece of length weight added to the front stabilizer hole before attaching a a stabilizer rod. Seats the bow hand along with changing the float pattern to be slower. [ Later


----------



## jim p (Oct 29, 2003)

I seem to be making some advances. For the last 5 years I have been trying to get this bow to shoot for me. Within the last 6 months or so I have gotten the bow to shoot much better. Going from a 12" spread at 20 yards to about a 2" spread at 20 yards.

As mentioned above I swung the back bar out to the left and this helped with my hold. I just increased the back bar weight from about 15 ounces to around 23 ounces and this has helped more with my hold and also has reduced the forward swing of the bow at the shot. I had to move my sight because the arrows were hitting high with the increased back weight.

If I had about 5 more life times, I might get this bow set up to shoot its best for me.

It is fun to be able to shoot a few vegas x's now compared to shooting some zeros when the bow looked like it was being held in the yellow.


----------

