# Darton DS-Series Tuning and Setup Information



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

So, a thread for the tuning and setup of the Darton DS series of bows! :rock:

So far, based on my two years of shooting the Darton Pro series and the Darton DS series, I have come up with the following.

A: Adding the cable silencers (the felt that adheres to your module) will drop your letoff to between 78%-75%. Not surprising if you look at the small size of the adapters for lower letoff. A great way to measure it is by dividing your holding weight by your draw weight (as measured) and suptract that number from 1.

B: As per Darton, the DS and Pro series were designed so that when you setup your nock height, the bottom of the arrow should be bisecting the center of the rest bolt hole. This surprised me, as I normally setup my bows to have the arrow covering the entire hold. However, after speaking with Cody at Darton for about ten minutes this morning, he made it pretty clear and obvious that the bottom of the arrow should be running through the middle of the rest bolt hole.

C: Cam timing marks are a good guideline, but, not the say-all, end-all regarding your bow. I spoke at length with Ted at Darton about this and he stated that often the best tune comes from having the cables running through the lines that are closest to the riser. That is where mine ended up, but, I did NOT use the lines to tune. Instead, I used a draw board, Easton draw weight scale (used for peak weight and letoff), tiller tuning, and of course spec tuning (the latter is of least importance). 

When all was said and done, my 70#, 27" DS-3800 is pulling 71#, at exactly 27", with 77% letoff (felt installed and fluffed), with a A2A of 33 14/16, a brace of exactly 6".

I will post up more findings as I go, and of course please message me if you are getting aftermarket strings for your Darton DS series. I have string charts so you get a string that has the PERFECT serving lengths!

That is all for now...more to follow! :nod:

Also, don't feel as if you can't lubricate the noisy cable slide...powered graphite works EXCELLENT!


----------



## Bow Me (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks for the info.

PM sent.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Did not get your PM...please contact me again! 



Bow Me said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> PM sent.


----------



## GhostBuck_007 (May 21, 2010)

Good stuff man...


----------



## FiveOarcher (Sep 21, 2006)

nice job- thanks for taking the time!


----------



## tankueray7 (Mar 9, 2010)

I also shoot @ 27'. I was wondering if there was any benefit to shooting the 3800 over the 3800 short draw.


----------



## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

Good stuff, I setup my 3500 in three weeks when I go home for R&R, yay!


----------



## dan476 (Mar 17, 2011)

tankueray7 said:


> I also shoot @ 27'. I was wondering if there was any benefit to shooting the 3800 over the 3800 short draw.


I have been wondering the same thing, my DL @ 26".


----------



## La Wildman (Mar 9, 2010)

ttt


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

I am curious is there a way to adjust for cam lean with this system. With a normal split yoke you can adjust it out but with the floating yoke how would you do this. Seems like center shot for this bow is way out from the riser.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

No way to adjust cam lean on this bow, nor, should you need to. The new cable rod is bent so at full draw there is little, if any, cable lean.


----------



## NeshotaValley (Jan 29, 2009)

Good info, thanks. Mine should arrive in a week or two. Had a 3800 that was my favorite bow last year, shot soo nice and had great let-off and valley even at 31" draw. Very torque free bow, cant wait to see what the DS version is like. Thanks again.


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

DoWorkSon said:


> No way to adjust cam lean on this bow, nor, should you need to. The new cable rod is bent so at full draw there is little, if any, cable lean.


 I have cam lean on my draw board as well as when I draw the bow. My a to a , brace height and cam sync are all in spec.. Center shot about 3/16 to the left of the center of the grip. Great arrow flight great grouping of arrows and a perfect bullet hole through paper however my trophy ridge alpha sight is out of windage adjustment to the left. What gives? the bow shoots great with the exception of this problem and i hate the PTR rod the cheap plastic slide makes alot of noise during the shot it has a clanking sound 100 % sure it is the slide.


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

ttt


----------



## jtascone (Feb 27, 2007)

DoWorkSon said:


> So, a thread for the tuning and setup of the Darton DS series of bows! :rock:
> 
> So far, based on my two years of shooting the Darton Pro series and the Darton DS series, I have come up with the following.
> 
> ...



Any reason why they recommend to center the berger hole with the bottom of the arrow? I'm just curious why they didn't just drill the berger holes a little higher if that is where they shoot the best???


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

No idea, but, if you drill the holes higher than you have to have the rest higher, which likely throws of the geometry I am guessing?

That said, I am going to play with mine a bit more once I get my string woes taken care off....



jtascone said:


> Any reason why they recommend to center the berger hole with the bottom of the arrow? I'm just curious why they didn't just drill the berger holes a little higher if that is where they shoot the best???


----------



## soimanerd2 (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for all the info, I just got my DS-4500 and was happy to see someone put this information out there. Gives me a place to start. I checked my bow out of the box and it is setup just as you stated for the tuning. Thanks again


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Your post on the DS3800 is greatly appreciated. 

The manual with the bow says center the arrow with the berger hole. How would a guy know to set it up differently? I am very glad you did the leg work and let us all know about what is actually the best practice. In fact, I wanted to set the my rest up higher like this (due to the style rest I have) but didn't because Darton says to do it differently. Moving it up like this will provide me with some extra grip clearance. 

I have a couple questions. This is the my first time setting up/tuning a bow.

The draw stop modules are labeled 1,2,3. What let off do each of them provide? I put the #1 on.

Right now my bottom cam hits the stop about 1/16 (maybe less) of an inch sooner than the top. Tuning marks are centered at rest. Which cam should be adjusted? 

After much reading this is what I plan to do (1-3 are done)

1 Bottom out limbs
2 Check tiller 
3 Twist cables equally for ATA
4 Draw board for cam tune (note question above)
5 Twist string for fine tuning DL to 30 inch
6 BH is what it is ???
7 Adjust limb bolts for my desired DW

Any thoughts

Thanks again


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Just got off the phone with Ted at Darton archery and got some more information on tuning and setup of the DS series.

The DS-2800 tunes at TRUE CENTERSHOT, which is easy enough. Also, the bow has level nock travel, which means you should set your nock height without an 1/8" high. Set it totally level.

The 3800 does NOT tune at true centershot, which makes things a little more difficult. It also has parallel nock travel, not level nock travel, which means you do have to set the nock level 1/8" high. I am getting some pictures sent to me by Darton on how to setup the centershot on a 3800 perfect on the first try. I will post those pictures up when I get them. 

Also, Ted re-confirmed that the bottom of the arrow should run through the center of the berger (or rest bolt) hole. This goes against conventional wisdom, but, it pretty much has been confirmed by three different people at Darton. So, the bottom of the arrow should bisect the center of the berger hole.

Will post up pictures when I get them!

They also recommend paper tuning to set centershot and nock height perfectly...guess I will be breaking my own statements and busting out the paper tuner again!  :zip:


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Try using a teflon slide and regarding your windage the DS-3800 does not tune at perfect centershot...I will be posting pictures shortly.



debowhunter said:


> I have cam lean on my draw board as well as when I draw the bow. My a to a , brace height and cam sync are all in spec.. Center shot about 3/16 to the left of the center of the grip. Great arrow flight great grouping of arrows and a perfect bullet hole through paper however my trophy ridge alpha sight is out of windage adjustment to the left. What gives? the bow shoots great with the exception of this problem and i hate the PTR rod the cheap plastic slide makes alot of noise during the shot it has a clanking sound 100 % sure it is the slide.


----------



## Breeze (Jun 29, 2010)

Great info :thumbs_up


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Very interested in the pictures. What is the difference between level nock travel and parallel nock travel? I'll have to check again but I believe my DS3800 is set nock level and paper tunes great. I have noticed though, that my grip is very important to get good bullet holes.


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

DoWorkSon said:


> Try using a teflon slide and regarding your windage the DS-3800 does not tune at perfect centershot...I will be posting pictures shortly.


That took the noise away. Went with a Simms teflon slide then retuned my bow. Brace height right at 6" draw weight 61.5 lbs maxed and center shot at 15/16" away from the riser. With this I am getting great flight and perfect bullet holes through paper. However my Trophy Ridge alpha sight still does not have enough windage adjustment, need about another 1/4" and i would be good. I'm going to try and put one of my HHA slider sights on it to see if I can get that to work.


----------



## Quacker-Wacker (Aug 9, 2009)

Great info! Can't wait to see the pics.


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Center shot on mine is also 15/16" off the riser and and nock point is maybe 1/16" high.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

I would like to hear a bit more about where everyone is placing their arrow in relation to the rest bolt hole! Heck, let's see some pictures! Everyone I spoke to at Darton says to start with the bottom of the arrow through the center of the rest bolt hole... 

The pictures never made it through...I will shoot them a call again tomorrow!

In terms of level vs. parallel nock travel, I do believe that level means that it travels perfectly level off of the bow as it is released, parallel means it runs parallel to the power-stroke of the bow.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

I got the pictures in a PDF file from Darton on how to set the perfect center-shot on the DS-3800 and the Pro-3800.

The file is too large for ArcheryTalk, so, please PM me with your email address if you would like a copy of it! It is designed for center-shot, not for nock height.


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Wow, I just looked at the pictures. If this works, and I have no reason to believe it won't, it is about as simple and fool proof as you can get. Thanks DoWorkSon!!!


----------



## blakeman (Dec 7, 2006)

Does the Simms Teflon slide work better than the factory slide on the Pro 3800? Does it change anything on the bow to worry about or have a issue with? Please explain!


----------



## Spined (Dec 28, 2010)

Great thread. I have a Pro 3800 This thing is a one of the best bows I have had. It drives tacks but I can't get it to Broad head tune. I've moved my rest all over. 2'' apart is the closest I can get them together.


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

DoWorkSon said:


> I got the pictures in a PDF file from Darton on how to set the perfect center-shot on the DS-3800 and the Pro-3800.
> 
> The file is too large for ArcheryTalk, so, please PM me with your email address if you would like a copy of it! It is designed for center-shot, not for nock height.


Thanks for the pics checked my bow and it is perfect. I placed a new sight on it and it is shooting great. 27" draw 363 gr easton axis 500 and 294 fps. Oh and it is quiet. I am very happy with this bow now so glad I didn't sell it on ebay.However I am getting out of control. Bought a 2010 Axe in Jan. and a 2011 Evo last week got to slow down 3 new bows when I usualy get a new one every 4 or 5 years


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Damn, that is some mighty fine flight with such a light-spined arrow. I am shooting at 27" and 71.2# and using .340 FMJs and they are still a little under-spined. That might explain why your other sight ran out of windage adjustment!

What weight are you pulling the 3800 at?



debowhunter said:


> Thanks for the pics checked my bow and it is perfect. I placed a new sight on it and it is shooting great. 27" draw 363 gr easton axis 500 and 294 fps. Oh and it is quiet. I am very happy with this bow now so glad I didn't sell it on ebay.However I am getting out of control. Bought a 2010 Axe in Jan. and a 2011 Evo last week got to slow down 3 new bows when I usualy get a new one every 4 or 5 years


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

Maxed out at 61.5 lbs 50 to 60 lb bow. I am right on the edge for spine my 500 spine easton axis fly great but my 500 spine goldtip ultra lights fly like crap. They are all over the place left to right.


----------



## jtascone (Feb 27, 2007)

So my Pro 2000 and Pro 3000 should have the bottom of the arrow in the center of the berger hole? Or is this just on the DS series???


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

I do believe that it just applies to the Pro and DS series from Darton!



jtascone said:


> So my Pro 2000 and Pro 3000 should have the bottom of the arrow in the center of the berger hole? Or is this just on the DS series???


----------



## Ms. Blackberry (Feb 20, 2010)

Great info. Just got my 2500 today from archery-123.com. It is a great shooting bow.


----------



## soimanerd2 (Jan 10, 2011)

debowhunter said:


> Maxed out at 61.5 lbs 50 to 60 lb bow. I am right on the edge for spine my 500 spine easton axis fly great but my 500 spine goldtip ultra lights fly like crap. They are all over the place left to right.


What is your draw length. If you would like to sell the goldtip ultralight arrows I would be interested in buying them. I get perfect bullet holes and excellent flight at that poundage with a 26" draw length. -Winn


----------



## Spined (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks for the Pics DoWorkSon. I was within a 1/8 of were it shows in the pic. I see were some are having problems with not enough adjustment in there windage on there sight. Its just is alittle shy of were it needs to be. I took the sight ring off and mounted it on the other side off the 3rd access bracket And removed the spacer between it. Now its perfect. Haven't had a chance to see how BH's are flying yet. maybe tomorrow. Thanks again.


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

27" draw I think I am going to give the arrows to my Wife She is shooting 38# so they should be ok for her to destroy in the back yard. But she is learning.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

I would like to see where people are mounting their arrow in terms of nock height...

Where is it in relation to the rest bolt hole? (Is it covering it totally, does the bottom of the arrow run through the center of the hole as per Darton, or do you have it someplace else?)
What is your nock height (did you go level, 1/8" high, 1/16" high, etc.?)


----------



## debowhunter (Jan 18, 2006)

the bottom of my arrow is going through the center of the rest bolt hole. my arrow is level or square to the string


----------



## K-9 (Jun 13, 2003)

Do these tuning tips also apply to the pro-3500??


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

No they only apply to the DS and PRO series of bows.



K-9 said:


> Do these tuning tips also apply to the pro-3500??


----------



## jtascone (Feb 27, 2007)

DoWorkSon said:


> No they only apply to the DS and PRO series of bows.


Well isn't the "Pro" 3500 a Pro series of bow???


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

I was referring to last years line of the Pro series. I am just going off of what I was told it would work for, not what it would not work for... :noidea:



jtascone said:


> Well isn't the "Pro" 3500 a Pro series of bow???


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

So, just a few summaries for those who are not reading the whole thread.

It looks like a good "starting point" for center-shot on the DS3800 is 15/16". That said, the tuning pictures that I have been sending out from Darton seem to give you a great center-shot starting point as well.

Most people are saying they are getting good bullet holes in terms of nock-height with the bottom of the arrow running through the center of the rest bolt hole and they giving it 1/16"-1/8" of nock-high from there.

Post up your results, pictures, etc!

Edit: My DS3800 and DS2800 just got sent away for a special "treatment". Pictures will be coming from me the end of the first week of June! Stay tuned people...:shade:


----------



## keeter24 (Jan 23, 2009)

Mine set up through center of hole, nock about 1/16" high, and 13/16 center shot.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Did you happen to run the bow through paper or not? 

What spine, weight, and length are you shooting?



keeter24 said:


> Mine set up through center of hole, nock about 1/16" high, and 13/16 center shot.
> View attachment 1073532


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

To the top for my 3800 shooters...


----------



## keeter24 (Jan 23, 2009)

I shot through paper initially, and got bullet holes. I have not shot it through paper since fine tuning. I shoot a .400 spine arrow, 26.5" long. The bow maxes out and I shoot it at 53lbs and 27" draw. I originally purchase the Darton to gain some speed for my hunting setup and pull less weight. I was pleasantly surprised at how steady this bow holds and how well it shoots. I am just a bowhunter who loves to shoot for fun and learn as much as I can. So Thanks for the tuning help.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Nice...I have experienced that the 3800s really like a stiff spine!



keeter24 said:


> I shot through paper initially, and got bullet holes. I have not shot it through paper since fine tuning. I shoot a .400 spine arrow, 26.5" long. The bow maxes out and I shoot it at 53lbs and 27" draw. I originally purchase the Darton to gain some speed for my hunting setup and pull less weight. I was pleasantly surprised at how steady this bow holds and how well it shoots. I am just a bowhunter who loves to shoot for fun and learn as much as I can. So Thanks for the tuning help.


----------



## Tinfoil (May 4, 2010)

I had to set my QAD HD with the bottom of arrow at the top of the burger hole so as to get clearence for the launcher above the shelf. Arrow at 13/16th's from side of riser to center of shaft. 1/8" nock height. I added a short piece of fuzzy sticky back velcro to the shelf and everything is just right. No slap and I get the clearence I need for the launcher. 2nd shot was a bullet hole. Oh this is on a DS 3800 and I am going to set up my DS 2800 the same way. Later Jerry aka Tinfoil


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Well I decided I wanted perfect bullet holes. I was set up with the bottom of the arrow as described in this thread and nock just a touch high. (less than 1/16) I had good arrow flight and pretty good groups. So out the the garage I went. At the start my center shot was 15/16th. 

Tears were about 1/2 inch nock high and slightly to the left. After several adjustments I was shooting bullet holes. I moved the rest down and to the right. Ended up with a center shot of 7/8 ths. The arrow is now close to centered over the berger hole. It's just slightly higher than centered. 

So now I am wondering if I stand to gain anything by moving both the nock and rest up? (so the bottom of arrow bisects the berger hole like Ted says to do) I would have moved the nock point instead of the rest but my nock is tied in and wouldn't turn. 

I am by no means a great archer. I am a perfectionist though, and it might just drive me crazy to leave it alone and not go after the "optimum" rest height. If I had never read this thread I'd be happy as a clam. AHHHH too much information. :noidea:


----------



## Tinfoil (May 4, 2010)

One other thing I might add about the QAD HD on my DS3800 that I had to do and that was put the TL1 launcher on the QAD. I guess cause I had the arrow at the top of the hole to get the clearence for the launcher. The stock launcher just did not shoot right. Later Jerry


----------



## soimanerd2 (Jan 10, 2011)

*Pictures of setup*



DoWorkSon said:


> I would like to see where people are mounting their arrow in terms of nock height...
> 
> Where is it in relation to the rest bolt hole? (Is it covering it totally, does the bottom of the arrow run through the center of the hole as per Darton, or do you have it someplace else?)
> What is your nock height (did you go level, 1/8" high, 1/16" high, etc.?)


Hi DoWorkSon,
I'm hoping that I can get my pictures in here for you. I've set my DS-4500 the same as what you've recommended for the 3800 and boy it shoots like a champ. I sort of had a hard time showing my centershot but it is 15/16ths from the side of the riser. It wasn't until I moved my rest out to that location that I started shooting better bullet holes as you can see in my paper tuning. I'm shooting some spindly little arrows (McKinney II 650's) So far they were grouping pretty good at 60yds and tighter as the distances became closer. I've not shot outside since I've got the cleaner bullet holes. I'll try to post some groups after this Thursdays practice.
My first paper tune is the top line and the second line is when I moved my arrow rest 1/8th" further away from the riser to make it 15/16". My nocking point is fairly close to 1/16"-1/8" nock high, that is hard to see the bubble on the arrow indicating slight nock high attitude.





















We had some real high winds during this shoot and it was the first time that I had shot my bow outdoors, my shooting partner left two of his arrows in the spot too, that's why you can count 8 arrows. This was the 40yd spot:


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

What arrow spine, weight, and draw length are you shooting, as that can also effect paper tunes! :nod:



Fowtyfour said:


> Well I decided I wanted perfect bullet holes. I was set up with the bottom of the arrow as described in this thread and nock just a touch high. (less than 1/16) I had good arrow flight and pretty good groups. So out the the garage I went. At the start my center shot was 15/16th.
> 
> Tears were about 1/2 inch nock high and slightly to the left. After several adjustments I was shooting bullet holes. I moved the rest down and to the right. Ended up with a center shot of 7/8 ths. The arrow is now close to centered over the berger hole. It's just slightly higher than centered.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

64-65# / 30 inch DL / GT velocity XT 300 spine cut to 28.75 / shooting a WB rest with large hole

I moved my nock and rest up. Paper tuned bullet holes same as before. Nock point is between 1/8 and 3/16 high (which is more than before) and center shot is at 27/32. I moved the center shot between 15/16 and 13/16 and saw very little difference in tears. Maybe because of the WB rest? I'll have to do a walkback and see if the center shot needs some fine tuning. Hopefully my groups get better as I don't want to redo this again.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Sounds to me like you will get some good arrow flight! Let us know how the tuning process goes! :nod:



Fowtyfour said:


> 64-65# / 30 inch DL / GT velocity XT 300 spine cut to 28.75 / shooting a WB rest with large hole
> 
> I moved my nock and rest up. Paper tuned bullet holes same as before. Nock point is between 1/8 and 3/16 high (which is more than before) and center shot is at 27/32. I moved the center shot between 15/16 and 13/16 and saw very little difference in tears. Maybe because of the WB rest? I'll have to do a walkback and see if the center shot needs some fine tuning. Hopefully my groups get better as I don't want to redo this again.


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Well I did the walkback and didn't need to change anything. I'm shooting really well compared to what I am used to. Think I'll just spend some time shooting. I've been working on technique and form quite a lot lately. It suprises me just how much better I can shoot vs when I'm just slingin arrows and not thinking about it. 

I'll have to give some further tuning a try. For sure some broadhead tuning. I have never group tuned before but maybe I'll give that a try too. 

Keep this post going. Good stuff.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

Jeff over at Hanover Hydrographics said that I would have my bows back next week or early the week after...I CANNOT WAIT! :rock:


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Changed my nocks. They added some weight to the nock and caused a tail right tear. (too stiff) My centershot moved out and is now at 7/8 inch and I'm getting perfect tears.


----------



## ULTRAHOYT (Nov 16, 2006)

now this is the kinda thread we need on AT


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

I just wanted to let everyone know that VaporTrail now has string and cable blueprints of the factory strings that came off of my DS-3800 and DS-2800! No more guessing, since Darton does not give you exact lengths. Just call and ask for strings and cables for the DS-3800 or DS-2800, and ask that they use the blueprints which were send in by their Gold Staff! Ask for Trish or Steve...they will get you all sorted out!


----------



## JPR79 (May 18, 2010)

Well I got mine in and tinkered with it a lot... ordered a shadow black one and I nicknamed her "Black Betty".

Installed a Martin TRG (had to trim the rod length a little with a hacksaw), and it feels different on the draw - not as stiff, and so far I like it. Torquing the grip at full draw is noticably difficult with the TRG versus the standard cable guard. The one complaint I had upon first initial assessment was the draw cycle of the bow was a bit harsh compared to what I was used to - long hill, short valley, but it does have a nice solid wall. I feel that the TRG helped with this slightly, but it's hard to tell.

Setup my centershot with the bottom of the shaft centered on the berger hole. I went with a G5 Expert II rest, and it seems to just fit this bow perfectly. My draw length is still not set properly (modules in route as I type this) so I will most likely retune everything once those get in. Hopefully with a proper draw length, the valley won't be so harsh on me. It came in on what I guess is about 29" draw, and I ordered 26.5" modules (my DL is around 27" but I shoot with a D-loop).

I had to crank the poundage down a good bit until I get used to it. I don't have a scale, but I ordered a 70# bow and it came in cranked down, and I took a good 5 full turns off and it feels like it's somewhere around 60-63#. The bottom of the limbs are showing just a hair out of the limb pockets. For reference, I've been shooting at 65# in the past on the Martin I sold.

The speed is just insane - I don't have a chrono but it just FEELS quick. I am probably underspined right now because of the long draw length. I am shooting Beman ICS Hunter 400s and Beman 9.3 400s at 28.5" long. I have some Victory VAP V3 350s at 28.5" long coming in too, so try something a little stiffer. On arrow charts for hard cams, I float inbetween 400/350 spines with my DL and poundage.

I did order some strings from 60X, they had everything on their website to input in their order form and I used the factory lengths from the manuals on Darton's website for the order. I never even talked to anyone on the phone. I installed them and tinkered with them, and once I figured it out, the dual-sync cams are extremely easy to tune... just twist the cables properly until they line up with the tic marks on the cams. I am not sure if I like the floating yoke yet, and my main concern with it is cam lean at full draw - but I do not have a drawboard to check it with. I plan on building a drawboard this coming Winter.

As far as dressing up Black Betty, the strings I got are solid red with black servings, and I ordered some red Bowjax for the limbs and the TRG rod, I also ditched the factory string stop because it blocked my view slightly and went with a red aluminum Bow Rattler mounted low. I had to cut the Bow Rattler even shorter to fit the 6" brace height (and I ordered the shortest one possible). Finished her off with a TR Alpha V5 Micro sight, black TightSpot quiver, and a 7" Octane black stab (the internal rod is red and matches the Bow Rattler nicely). I ordered a custom red/black/grey sling, and I have red/black Dymonwood grips on the way.

While I'm in Trashcanistan, I am going to look for a nice cardboard bow to make some cutouts and staple some paper into a "window" to try to paper tune her up.

This is my first bow to fully tinker and tune, so it's a learning process for me. So far I am enjoying it, and it's not near as difficult as I thought. As a kid I always took stuff apart and put it back together to understand how it works. People can tell me how to do it all day long, but until I do it myself, the process never sinks in.


----------



## big bucks only (Jan 4, 2010)

what do you guys think about the second string stop what are the pros and cons of having it on or having it off


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

I have seen a few guys leave it off but I don't know why. I shot mine without it and then with it fitted and the difference was quite noticeable. The bow is much quieter with it fitted and there is no down side to having it on. Bow is very fast, smooth, quiet and as accurate as my dedicated target bow.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

What center-shot measurements is everyone coming up with? 

There are a few measurements in this thread but I would like to see a lot more! Mine tuned a little closer to the riser than others...going to try some different shafts when I get back to Colorado! :nod:


----------



## bukfever2 (Feb 16, 2011)

big bucks only said:


> what do you guys think about the second string stop what are the pros and cons of having it on or having it off


The only thing I have noticed is the speed nocks will travel and hit the plastic for the yoke.(You'll see the marks on the shrink tube)
If it could ever crack it I don't know but we always put both on.
Has to be one of the best shooting bows out there right now.
Speed and accuracy!!


----------



## Tinfoil (May 4, 2010)

bukfever2 said:


> The only thing I have noticed is the speed nocks will travel and hit the plastic for the yoke.(You'll see the marks on the shrink tube)
> If it could ever crack it I don't know but we always put both on.
> Has to be one of the best shooting bows out there right now.
> Speed and accuracy!!


Which Darton bows have you seen this on and how many Dartons have you seen this on. My DS3800 and DS2800 never has had a problem and I asked my dealer if he ever saw this and he has never saw it on any Darton he has sold as I am sure that his customers would have told him. I am going to call Darton and ask them about this one and see what they have to say. Thanks, Jerry


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

I finally got to broadhead tuning. In regards to centershot mine is now at 27/32 from the riser which I believe is a little inside what others have said. It's shooting great so I think my endless tuning endeavor is finally over. Only took a couple months!!!


----------



## abcarrow (Feb 3, 2006)

Anyone shooting the goldtip 22 series arrows out of their DS 3800. I have the 3800 set at 58#, Dl 28", (26 3/8 cut length, 347 grain, 22 series arrow), 13/16 center of shaft to riser, started 1/8 nock high. I'm getting nock high tear, so I'm raising the rest, at a perfect 90 now coming off the string, and still nock high tear.


----------



## pdj (Dec 1, 2005)

I just put my new Vapor Trail string/cables and yokes on last night. Ready to tie on d-loop and start shooting! All I needed to do was put a couple of twists in the cables and she is good to go.


----------



## soimanerd2 (Jan 10, 2011)

abcarrow said:


> Anyone shooting the goldtip 22 series arrows out of their DS 3800. I have the 3800 set at 58#, Dl 28", (26 3/8 cut length, 347 grain, 22 series arrow), 13/16 center of shaft to riser, started 1/8 nock high. I'm getting nock high tear, so I'm raising the rest, at a perfect 90 now coming off the string, and still nock high tear.


What type of arrow rest are you using? If it is one of the fixed blade, the blade stiffness can affect how the arrow is launched. For this action, I'd go to a thinner blade to reduce the stiffness. Also the angle of the blade can affect the arrow flight. 

What type of nocking point are you using? I'm assuming a D-loop since most of us are using this now but some folks still like a rope on their release aid. 

I've also found that it's best to setup the height of the arrow rest in relation to where it should be located to the berger button hole and make my vertical adjustments with the d-loop/nocking point on the string. Sometimes this can be tedious if you tie in your d-loop and secure it with a tool that tightens it down really snug for moving it later. I usually won't snug down the d-loop with greater force until I've determined the correct nock height. I still have to be carefull that I'm not pinching the nock with the d-loop though as this can cause problems also. That's just the nature of the d-loop though.

As another measure to take, just read the beginning of this Thread on the tuning setup and double check your tuning marks, overall setup for brace height, axle-to-axle length and tiller. Hope this helps -Winn


----------



## abcarrow (Feb 3, 2006)

Thanks for the Info: My rest is the G5 Expert Pro and I level it with the bow using my spigarelli sight leveler, then set the G5 at the half way point, once thats done I set the d-loop on the string so that its an 1/8 inch nock high. Then I go to the paper bareshaft, and I get roughly a 1 inch nock high tear, and tune from there. My D-loop is pinching the arrow nock. Tiller is dead even! With Bow setting in the bow press string runs close to the upper mark away from the riser, this is called a cold tune: However I orginally had the string dead center of the tunning marks, and I got the same results.


soimanerd2 said:


> What type of arrow rest are you using? If it is one of the fixed blade, the blade stiffness can affect how the arrow is launched. For this action, I'd go to a thinner blade to reduce the stiffness. Also the angle of the blade can affect the arrow flight.
> 
> What type of nocking point are you using? I'm assuming a D-loop since most of us are using this now but some folks still like a rope on their release aid.
> 
> ...


----------



## abcarrow (Feb 3, 2006)

Well I found the sweet spot!!! Orginally I was just below the center of the berger hole with the bottom of my arrow, so I did some adjusting and wam-o,, I hit the sweet spot. Now the bottom of my arrow lies just above center, nock hieght at a perfect 90 off the string, with center shot at 13/16, results were a perfect hole in paper with the bareshaft. I took My 3800 out side to fine tune with a bare shaft, and the Bareshafts are flying right with the fletched arrows at 20 yds. Its like turning on a light switch!!! the difference is unbelievable, I would have never beleived it: had i not experenced it for myself.

Thanks for the information


----------



## mocheese (Dec 19, 2003)

Lots of great info here, new strings and cables on my 3800 and changing it over from my 3D set up to hunting set up so I'll be needing this info.


----------



## johnbjmarcum (Jan 10, 2008)

Any more info???


----------



## dan476 (Mar 17, 2011)

does anyone still have the pdf file? thanks.


----------



## Jerry/NJ (Jan 17, 2003)

Will changing the cam rotation change the valley on a 2800 ? I want more valley.


----------



## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

"I am getting some pictures sent to me by Darton on how to setup the centershot on a 3800 perfect on the first try. I will post those pictures up when I get them."

DoWorkSon: your inbox must be full. No reply to PM for these pics.

ANYONE: Does full draw timing matter? Only reference to cam timing in Darton literature is at rest cable alignment with marks on cams. I assume the cams should be timed at full daw perfectly & each within or on cam timing marks at rest, but each cam not necessarily same relative to timing marks, just each cam on or between marks. Is my assumption correct that full draw timing is most important?
And this is the manual: "If they (cables) are not lined up or in the same relative position on each cam, you will lose some draw length and stored energy." So this means as long as both cams are same relative to marks on cams/cables, it's good to go, no reason to check full draw timing?


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Line up the cables between the marks with the bow at brace. The bow will likely shoot pretty good if you just do this. However, it would be best to then use a draw board or a friend and time the cams to hit the stops at the exact same time. Also, as mentioned above, it is very possible that you would get the best tune with the cams slightly "advanced" (opposite rotation of drawing the bow) in relation to those timing marks.


----------



## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

Fowtyfour said:


> Line up the cables between the marks with the bow at brace. The bow will likely shoot pretty good if you just do this. However, it would be best to then use a draw board or a friend and time the cams to hit the stops at the exact same time. Also, as mentioned above, it is very possible that you would get the best tune with the cams slightly "advanced" (opposite rotation of drawing the bow) in relation to those timing marks.


Thanks. Email from Darton today confirmed what you said/I assumed---cables between marks same relative position top & bottom ---should be good to go, however full draw timing should be checked & adjusted if necessary so both cams hit cable stops at same time. And as discussed, best tune likely with cams advanced. If I understand correctly advanced cams means cables on or nearest cam mark closest to riser. Equal top & bottom cable twisting alone seems to have virtually no effect on cam marks to cable position, so I assume to advance the cams I'd need to untwist string a little?


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

This link from Elite may be helpful. http://www.elitearchery.com/technology/pdf/cam_adjustment_basics.pdf


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

Fowtyfour said:


> This link from Elite may be helpful. http://www.elitearchery.com/technology/pdf/cam_adjustment_basics.pdf


Elite uses a different cam system to Darton and the advice given in that link is not applicable to the DS3800.


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> Elite uses a different cam system to Darton and the advice given in that link is not applicable to the DS3800.


Yes it is a different cam. It is however binary in design. If you twist a cable the cam advances, if you twist the string the cam ******s.


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Too funny, I have my first censored word on AT.


----------



## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

Fowtyfour said:


> Yes it is a different cam. It is however binary in design. If you twist a cable the cam advances, if you twist the string the cam ******s.


Is there another word you could substitute? 

Just aquired a DS3800. Added a couple cable twists in attempt to return cam to advanced position. That left position of cams virtually unchanged relative to cables. Checked full draw timing--74 lbs, maybe a hair difference in full draw timing. Experimented with various style releases with various adjustments. Next to last group from 60 yards about 2". Last group (pictured) from 60 yards with about 1" shorter arrows---1 5/8" center of shaft to center of shaft, resulting in busted nock. Stopped shooting when I heard the dreadful arrow hitting arrow sound. Looks like a sweet spot. May be time to start paper tuning. Speed checked with Fletcher peep, d-loop (74lb, 29"): 350 grain arrow--339 fps.


----------



## Fowtyfour (Nov 18, 2010)

Dear NRA Republican,

If you touch anything on that bow I will come find you and take you in for a head examination and psych eval. 

sincerely, 
Fowtyfour


----------



## welch2905 (Jul 25, 2011)

Ok, heres the deal on the DS-4500,

Just got one and it is a seriously sweet bow. Set it up...shot about 300 arrows through it and got a frayed cable - the stock slide actually cut my cable. Ordered Winner Choice Strings installed a Saunders Hyper Slide (teflon), set it up, and my god it was loud - struggled to get it to factory specs with ATA and Brace - Focused on ATA and got it to spec - low and behold it shot a lot quieter. Installed String Leaches on string and Cables(Limbsaver) - shot a lot quiter and 14 feet a sec faster. I love this bow but DO NOT USE THAT STOCK SLIDE! 401 Grain Arrow, 66 Pound Draw, Winner Choice Strings, Saunders HiperGlide Cable Slide, 31.5 inch Draw = 300 ft a sec!


----------



## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

*DS3800 tune info from Darton*

DS3800 tune info from Darton


----------



## bjesse60 (Apr 9, 2011)

NRA republican said:


> DS3800 tune info from Darton


I used this to setup my new Pro 3800 & it was spot on! :thumbs_up


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a 29" 70# DS 3800 on the way....what spine arrows are you guys using with 29" and 70#?


----------



## Spurlucky (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks for the intel on my bow.


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Anyone...what arrows are you shooting with your 70# 3800?


----------



## Archway Hunter (Mar 21, 2011)

deerhunter81 said:


> Anyone...what arrows are you shooting with your 70# 3800?


For my 29 inch DL 70 lbs 2010 Darton Pro-3800, I am using 300 spine Harvest Time Archery HT-2's cut to 28 inches carbon-to-carbon with flex-fletch flash 200 vanes and G nocks. Guess whose strings I am using :wink:


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Archway Hunter said:


> For my 29 inch DL 70 lbs 2010 Darton Pro-3800, I am using 300 spine Harvest Time Archery HT-2's cut to 28 inches carbon-to-carbon with flex-fletch flash 200 vanes and G nocks. Guess whose strings I am using :wink:


Are they mine? I have built some for 3800's....the username is what has me questioning!


----------



## Archway Hunter (Mar 21, 2011)

deerhunter81 said:


> Are they mine? I have built some for 3800's....the username is what has me questioning!


Indeed they are. I've got a nice set of flo green and coco strings from you off the AA forum. Haven't seen you over there in a while. Try the above combination. It is a little on the stiff side for 100 grain heads and right on for 125's, but you'll have plenty of room to play with your setup if you ever decide to try different BH's.


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Archway Hunter said:


> Indeed they are. I've got a nice set of flo green and coco strings from you off the AA forum. Haven't seen you over there in a while. Try the above combination. It is a little on the stiff side for 100 grain heads and right on for 125's, but you'll have plenty of room to play with your setup if you ever decide to try different BH's.


That is what I thought! Thanks bud! I have been on and off, things are really changing over there! I really want to shoot a 125 grain Hunor neo, so that will be perfect or maybe even my 150 grain werewolfs!!! They are both insane!!! Can't wait to get the bow! It seems like they are pretty legit!


----------



## Archway Hunter (Mar 21, 2011)

deerhunter81 said:


> That is what I thought! Thanks bud! I have been on and off, things are really changing over there! I really want to shoot a 125 grain Hunor neo, so that will be perfect or maybe even my 150 grain werewolfs!!! They are both insane!!! Can't wait to get the bow! It seems like they are pretty legit!


Yeah, things are changing over there. I like the guys, but things need to cool down some. As for the 125 grain Hunor neo, you shouldn't have any problems. Add a wrap, and you should be able to get good flight out of the 150 grain werewolfs, but you might have to add some lighted nocks. I haven't tried anything over 125 grains, but I think you got the skills to get it done with the 150s. And yeah, the 3800's are definitely legit. A little stiff with a shortish valley, but it has a rock solid back wall.


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Archway Hunter said:


> Yeah, things are changing over there. I like the guys, but things need to cool down some. As for the 125 grain Hunor neo, you shouldn't have any problems. Add a wrap, and you should be able to get good flight out of the 150 grain werewolfs, but you might have to add some lighted nocks. I haven't tried anything over 125 grains, but I think you got the skills to get it done with the 150s. And yeah, the 3800's are definitely legit. A little stiff with a shortish valley, but it has a rock solid back wall.


That sounds excellent to me!!! Can't wait!!!


----------



## Big Eagle (Nov 19, 2011)

I have the PRO-3800, with dual string stops. Instead of the factory cable slide, I have a Saunders Hyper-Glide Fast Bearing Slide and it's nice and quiet. This is a great thread which will hopefully help me bring my field points and broadheads closer together. Thanks guys.


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

deerhunter81 said:


> Anyone...what arrows are you shooting with your 70# 3800?


I am shooting Easton Flatline 340's with 100gr tips and Trophy Ridge Crush 300's with 125 gr tips with my Ds-3800 29/70, both like darts. The Flatlines come out at 327fps.


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks for the replies!


----------



## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

And this from Darton web site, FAQ's:

"Q: How hard is it to tune a Darton bow?

A: There are 2 different issues to address when discussing how to tune your bow. One issue deals with optimum tune for stored energy/performance and nock travel, the other issue deals with arrow flight.
Tuning your bow for optimum performance is very easy with a Darton bow. The first thing you need to do is check the axle to axle dimension to be sure it’s correct and be sure your limbs are adjusted evenly. Be sure the limb bolt locking set screw is loose. Next, count the number of turns it takes to tighten the limbs to the riser. Back your limbs out evenly to the desired adjustment you want. Check to see if your bow needs tuning. This is done by visually checking the alignment of your power cables with the tune marks on the cam. If the cables are centered between the tune marks, nothing needs to be done. If the cables are not centered correctly, you will need access to a bow press so you can adjust your cables accordingly to achieve correct alignment with the tune marks. A more detailed procedure is included on the Tech Bulletin included with your bow, and is also shown on this web site. If the cables are correctly aligned with your tune marks, the stored energy is optimized and nock travel is straight and level.
Tuning for best arrow flight is very easy once you have your bow tuned for optimum performance. With straight and level nock travel you set your arrow on your rest and nock it perpendicular to the bowstring. Some archers prefer to nock their arrow high because this is what they have had to do with most other bows. If you decide to nock your arrow high, it’s recommended that you don’t go more than 3/16” high. Once you have your arrow nocked on the bowstring, adjust your arrow rest so it lines up with the bowstring when viewed from the shooting position, with the bowstring approx 3/16” to the left of the center of the grip (right-hand shooter). This should give you good arrow flight. If you prefer to paper tune you will find there is very little left to do."


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

deerhunter81 said:


> I have a 29" 70# DS 3800 on the way....what spine arrows are you guys using with 29" and 70#?


Well I received my DS 3800 today and set it up and it is broadhead tuned already and shooting 335.6 fps through the chrono at 28.5" and 70# with a 358 grain arrow! This thing is accurate too! I can't wait to put a set my strings and cables on it made from brownell XS2! This thing is going to scream!!! It tuned with a 27.5" harvest time HT-1 350 spine and Magnus stingers 100 grain and 125 grain Hunor Neo's!!! Can't wait to shoot something with it!!!!


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Bow isnt set up this way, but this is it!


----------



## deerhunter81 (Nov 30, 2007)

Update, I replaced the stock cable slide with a red pse cable slide and also put on 29" mods that I picked up from darton! Very good customer service btw! Bow shot 338 fps with the 28.5" mod and 343 fps at 29", these speed are at 70# and with a 358 grain arrow! This bow is insanely smooth for how fast, quiet, and accurate it is! Darton DS 3800 is the most underrated bow out there period! I get alot of bows in my hands for tuning too, also the 3800 is one of the easiest!!! Thanks Darton!!!


----------



## jtascone (Feb 27, 2007)

NRA republican said:


> DS3800 tune info from Darton



Does this work for the Pro 3800 as well???


----------



## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

It is supposed to, however, your results may vary. I'd only use this as a starting point. Easton's downloadable tuning guide is a good guide from that point.


----------



## miketheshooter (Dec 29, 2010)

Ata is 14/16 brace is just a touch over 6" maybe a 16th center shot is around 15/16 and timing is top cam ahead a hair no press to fix it at this time going to shoot in the morning see what my groups are like. If I did something different or wrong let me know pro 22's 28" carbon to carbon three blazers pin nocks and bushings with 80 up front at 61# don't know my exact speeds at 28" doesn't really matter just as long as it hits where its supposed to but if anyone can calculate where I should be at let me know please. Will update tomorrow on how this tuning did for me weather I stay or tune back to where I want and I also have bottom of arrow dissecting rest holes.


----------



## miketheshooter (Dec 29, 2010)

Don't know why I did cause I just gotten this bow tuned back up and was hitting great all the way to 45 mbr Max but it is the off season so tinkering around gives me something to do but the way you guys talk seem like super tuners so I will have to see for myself


----------



## miketheshooter (Dec 29, 2010)

Yeah it is 100% worth it my groups instantly shrunk thank you very much doworkson


----------



## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

bump, 4500 shooters, bottom of arrow through mid berger button hole- is this correct?


----------



## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Alpha Burnt said:


> bump, 4500 shooters, bottom of arrow through mid berger button hole- is this correct?


Yes sir. Both the 4500 and 3800 landed about the same spot through the berger hole.


----------



## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Ok, thanks, just wanting to check.


----------



## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

Is the consensus on nock point about 1/16" above 90 (arrow square bisecting BB hole)?


----------



## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

I was just wandering what everyone is finding on cam sync. Do your draw stops hit at same time or one before the other? 

thanks


----------



## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

WYelkhunter said:


> I was just wandering what everyone is finding on cam sync. Do your draw stops hit at same time or one before the other?
> 
> thanks


I played around some with the draw stop sync, seemed to group tune the best at even on both the 4500 and the 3800. Always ran my Hoyts with the top slightly ahead.


----------



## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

thanks, I just got the DS3800 this weekend and started shooting it yesterday. It is very quiet and no vibe. The only thing I noticed is the max on my 60 lb bow is almost 65 lbs. BH is right on but AtoA is about 3/16" short. I am going get a few more arrows through it, recheck and adjust the cables to get the AtoA right. 

Does this sound like what I should do?


----------



## Alpha Burnt (Sep 12, 2005)

they say to keep the A2A within a 1/16" plus or minus.


----------



## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

blakeman said:


> Does the Simms Teflon slide work better than the factory slide on the Pro 3800? Does it change anything on the bow to worry about or have a issue with? Please explain!


 A teflon slide gave me just under 4 fps and eliminated all of the noise I got with Dartons' supplied slide. Why they use those cheap slides I'll never know! They have for years - sort of like the old Diamonds and Bowtechs used too. Darton told me a few weeks ago that they supply teflon slides on the new DS3800's now. But mine came with a cheap plastic one!


----------



## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Spined said:


> Great thread. I have a Pro 3800 This thing is a one of the best bows I have had. It drives tacks but I can't get it to Broad head tune. I've moved my rest all over. 2'' apart is the closest I can get them together.


Not sure what you may be missing but mine tunes scary tight broadhead groups. I whacked a squirrel at 27 yards snap shooting it last fall!


----------



## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

DoWorkSon said:


> Nice...I have experienced that the 3800s really like a stiff spine!


 So do the 3500's, and the 3000's for those that have those that read this. I'll bet that the 3900's do too.


----------



## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Fowtyfour said:


> Well I decided I wanted perfect bullet holes. I was set up with the bottom of the arrow as described in this thread and nock just a touch high. (less than 1/16) I had good arrow flight and pretty good groups. So out the the garage I went. At the start my center shot was 15/16th.
> 
> Tears were about 1/2 inch nock high and slightly to the left. After several adjustments I was shooting bullet holes. I moved the rest down and to the right. Ended up with a center shot of 7/8 ths. The arrow is now close to centered over the berger hole. It's just slightly higher than centered.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you posted this! I've had better tune on their bows consistently for years below recommended arrow shaft placement! I spent a week at Bowtech as a Gander Mountain employee and asked what the engineers there thought about just that. They explained that the closer to the hand you can get the arrow shaft the better because it has proven to be a much more forgiving set up. I always explore up to and including bottom of shaft at bottom of berger button holes. I will with this DS3800 too!


----------



## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

JPR79 said:


> Well I got mine in and tinkered with it a lot... ordered a shadow black one and I nicknamed her "Black Betty".
> 
> Installed a Martin TRG (had to trim the rod length a little with a hacksaw), and it feels different on the draw - not as stiff, and so far I like it. Torquing the grip at full draw is noticably difficult with the TRG versus the standard cable guard. The one complaint I had upon first initial assessment was the draw cycle of the bow was a bit harsh compared to what I was used to - long hill, short valley, but it does have a nice solid wall. I feel that the TRG helped with this slightly, but it's hard to tell.
> 
> ...


Pics?


----------



## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

jtascone said:


> Does this work for the Pro 3800 as well???


I'd put a teflon cable slide on it. I used the Coffey black teflon slide and picked up almost 4 fps - and it quieted things down.


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

do you all have the cables in your vision?? I am sure i will get used to it but it is a little odd right now. 
so center shot is around 6/8 to 7/8 from the riser. have not tride to paper tune but after a rough setup the arrows seem to be flying real well.

reed


----------



## Mac of Michigan (Mar 26, 2009)

Mac of Michigan said:


> I'd put a teflon cable slide on it. I used the Coffey black teflon slide and picked up almost 4 fps - and it quieted things down.


Update to this - I would not recommend a Coffey slide! I was checking my cables out and the slide has cut a couple of strands on the cables. The guys at Coffey told me it was a teflon slide as did Lancaster, where I purchased it from. Sorry for the poor advice! I'll be switching it out to a Simms or Saunders. I also looked at the Bernardini splitter (http://alternativess.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/005208.25.1099457493510051577). I'll post here when I get the changes done.


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

soimanerd2 said:


> Hi DoWorkSon,
> I'm hoping that I can get my pictures in here for you. I've set my DS-4500 the same as what you've recommended for the 3800 and boy it shoots like a champ. I sort of had a hard time showing my centershot but it is 15/16ths from the side of the riser. It wasn't until I moved my rest out to that location that I started shooting better bullet holes as you can see in my paper tuning. I'm shooting some spindly little arrows (McKinney II 650's) So far they were grouping pretty good at 60yds and tighter as the distances became closer. I've not shot outside since I've got the cleaner bullet holes. I'll try to post some groups after this Thursdays practice.
> My first paper tune is the top line and the second line is when I moved my arrow rest 1/8th" further away from the riser to make it 15/16". My nocking point is fairly close to 1/16"-1/8" nock high, that is hard to see the bubble on the arrow indicating slight nock high attitude.
> 
> ...


wow 15/16 seems very far outside centerline. have you french tunned/walkback tunned with that measurement?


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

so what is the general concensis in the center shot of the 38 and 4500's


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

That "Bernardini splitter " looks interesting.


----------



## Dog (May 26, 2004)

I know the tread has some age. I struggled to get my 3800 to broadhead tune and finally ended up at 1" centershot. Just curious if anyone else has a centershot this far out? She is shooting 125 grain muzzy phantom on 28" 300 fmj (shooting 72#) spot on with field points out to 50 yards. I really wanted to twist a yoke but this is not possible on the 3800. 

Everything else is spot on specification. I have the bottom of the arrow bisecting the Berger hole and am 1/16 nock high. Shooting a code red rest and string loop.


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

Dog said:


> I know the tread has some age. I struggled to get my 3800 to broadhead tune and finally ended up at 1" centershot. Just curious if anyone else has a centershot this far out? She is shooting 125 grain muzzy phantom on 28" 300 fmj (shooting 72#) spot on with field points out to 50 yards. I really wanted to twist a yoke but this is not possible on the 3800.
> 
> Everything else is spot on specification. I have the bottom of the arrow bisecting the Berger hole and am 1/16 nock high. Shooting a code red rest and string loop.


I am a hair under that, but if it works go with it.


----------



## ejd1017 (Jan 22, 2009)

Anyone still have the pics they could send me?


----------



## hrtlnd164 (Mar 22, 2008)

Pics are in post # 90, using a straight edge off the riser. It will set you up around 7/8 - 15/16 centershot which is usually pretty close to what you need. Run the bottom of the shaft through the center of the berger hole and about a heavy 1/8" nock high.


----------



## DoWorkSon (Aug 5, 2010)

:bump: this back to the topola!!!


----------



## ironhorse89 (Feb 22, 2009)

Up again


----------



## Painted Turtle (Oct 19, 2011)

As a Darton Archery staff shooter I would be more than happy to help anyone in anyway with their Darton's! :nod:


----------



## Spurlucky (Aug 7, 2011)

Hello Darton world. I put new strings and cables on my pro-3800 yesterday and am in the process of my first self attempt at that part of bow setup. I realized I do not possess much of the required tools, namely a serving tool & serving material. 

Looking for help from the Darton Gurus out there.
Questions include:
1. Do I have to back off the limbs & remove the limb savers every time I press the bow for cable twists? Seems crazy when I take all measurements bottomed out. 
2. How many twists do the yoke cables normally get?
3. Can I use the BTM press to check timing before I commit to putting on a D-loop?
4. My ATA right now is 34 5/16", clearly I have a long way to go to get to 33 13/16, how best to proceed?
5. I have only enough d-loop material for a single attempt at this time, how long should I cut it to get the right (normal) finished d-loop length?

I know there will be plenty of trial and error in the process. I have Michael Braden's cd set "The self-reliant bow hunter" but am looking for Darton specific info.
Thanks in advance and it seemed like a good idea to keep this thread near the top for others.

Spurlucky


----------



## sludge (Jun 19, 2004)

Just sold my DS3800 a couple of months ago. Nice bow. One thing to check though if you are having center shot issues is the limb deflections. My bow (2012) initially wouldn't center tune at all. Tail way right and broadheads and field points no where close. Sent it back to Darton and it turned out that all the limbs were of the same deflection. Was told the inboard limbs were supposed to be stiffer. They swapped them out and it took care of the problem. Shot great after that.


----------



## Spurlucky (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks sludge, I am not worried about the limbs right now just trying to get the right ATA on the bow now. I have 22 twists in the cables and am still not there (12 twists says Darton). Afraid I am doing something wrong. I may have to take the cables off and compare the length of the new ones to the old. All I can figure to do.

Spurlucky


----------



## Spurlucky (Aug 7, 2011)

Got it. Floating yoke cables are too long.


----------



## ARROWS (Sep 21, 2004)

is it possible to email pic to elkhunter @shaw.ca thanks Arrows.


----------



## PK101 (Mar 17, 2012)

has anyone got a copy of this PDF that they can pass on please.

does the DS 3800 have top cam lean at rest, with an Easton FMJ laying on the top cam the arrow completely crosses under the string at the D loop

centre shot is over 1¼” from the riser and still needing to go further left(right paper tear).

any help on this would be appreciated 




DoWorkSon said:


> I got the pictures in a PDF file from Darton on how to set the perfect center-shot on the DS-3800 and the Pro-3800.
> 
> The file is too large for ArcheryTalk, so, please PM me with your email address if you would like a copy of it! It is designed for center-shot, not for nock height.


----------



## WYelkhunter (Mar 26, 2006)

I also have cam lean and can't get it to broadhead tune or get bare shafts to hit with fletched arrows. With the floating yoke there is no way to tune out the lean. Has anyone converted a 3800 to static yoke cables?


----------



## Kstigall (Feb 24, 2004)

WYelkhunter said:


> I also have cam lean and can't get it to broadhead tune or get bare shafts to hit with fletched arrows. With the floating yoke there is no way to tune out the lean. Has anyone converted a 3800 to static yoke cables?


Yes, I used my 3800 last year with static yokes. I made cable splitters from small A/C/C shafts with nocks. It worked great. You must tied nock sets above and below the "splitters" to keep them from slipping. I made static yokes for both the top adn bottom but I suspect you could get use just a static yoke on the top.


----------



## Spurlucky (Aug 7, 2011)

I always seem to go seeking this thread for tuning questions. Time for it to resurface.


----------



## wolfgang510 (Jan 19, 2014)

I have a 2013 ds 3800. There is one small "tuning" mark on each CAM near where the string enters the CAM. Is this reference line meaningful in anyway?


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

wolfgang510 said:


> I have a 2013 ds 3800. There is one small "tuning" mark on each CAM near where the string enters the CAM. Is this reference line meaningful in anyway?



I have never seen anything from Darton explaining that mark but on my bow, which is tuned correctly, the marks correspond exactly with the point that the string enters the cam.


----------



## Laxhunter (Oct 21, 2013)

I have two marks (consisting of two lines each) on each cam (ds2800). I would think they need to be the same (top and bottom)not necessarily exactly in between lines for timing purposes so the cams rollover together. I am a beginner at this bow tuning stuff so take it for what it's worth. Is this correct?


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

Laxhunter said:


> I have two marks (consisting of two lines each) on each cam (ds2800). I would think they need to be the same (top and bottom)not necessarily exactly in between lines for timing purposes so the cams rollover together. I am a beginner at this bow tuning stuff so take it for what it's worth. Is this correct?


When your bow is tuned correctly to spec your cables will pass through the center of those lines.


----------



## Laxhunter (Oct 21, 2013)

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> When your bow is tuned correctly to spec your cables will pass through the center of those lines.


Ok thanks


----------



## wolfgang510 (Jan 19, 2014)

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> I have never seen anything from Darton explaining that mark but on my bow, which is tuned correctly, the marks correspond exactly with the point that the string enters the cam.


On mine those marks are above the point where the string enters the CAM. They are in the same position top and bottom though. My bow appears to be in tune with regard to ATA/brace/cable alignment, except the draw length is about 3/8" long.


----------



## Tinfoil (May 4, 2010)

AUSSIEDUDE said:


> When your bow is tuned correctly to spec your cables will pass through the center of those lines.


Absolutely 100% correct ah moon dough. You got it. HH Jerry


----------



## wolfgang510 (Jan 19, 2014)

After some tinkering here is what I ended up with:

String 1/16" below spec.
Brace and ATA dead on.
Had to twist up cables a bit. They are between the two lines but slightly closer to the riser line.
Draw length is still 1/8" too long (down from 3/8" by shortening the string.
At 67lbs I am getting 75% let measured let off.
Bow is hitting 74lbs with bolts bottomed out.


----------



## soonerboy (Sep 6, 2004)

Great information here.


----------



## crowinghen (Oct 2, 2011)

tagged for later


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Can someone help me out if the bottom cam is hitting stops first which cable do I twist I have forgot lol ds 4500


----------



## NRA republican (May 13, 2003)

A simple answer would go something like remove 1/2 twist or more to (control) cable or add 1/2 twist to (buss) cable. Depends upon your desire to keep factory specifications for ATA (axle to axle distance), increase/decrease speed...
It's just a simple common sense thing if you stop and think about how the cams react to pulling the string...

Seems current politically correct laws & lawsuits prevent such info from being included in owners manuals...


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

^^^got it thanks


----------



## oktalotl (May 21, 2012)

michaelgentry87 said:


> Can someone help me out if the bottom cam is hitting stops first which cable do I twist I have forgot lol ds 4500


Your bow doesn't have control or buss cables, just 2 power cables. If the bottom cam hits first - twist the cable on the bottom cam or untwist on top, or do both.


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

I know this but I was gonna let the gentleman above 
talk , I just built the strings I have three and I forget. 
But thank you sir


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

While I am on the subject of tuning I'm setting my ds 4500 up for spots
Dead nuts timing 
7.5 in brace 
60 lbs dead nuts 
1/8 over a2a 
Is it that big of a deal to be over a2a on these bows


----------



## Tinfoil (May 4, 2010)

Is it that big of deal to be 1/8" over a2a. NO. HH Jerry


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Thanks was jw every one else's opinion


----------



## F/F 3Der (Mar 23, 2008)

A 1/8" will not affect anything. If the cams are timed at rest and full draw your good to go.
As mentioned above time between the lines on the cam then check at full draw as you could have a cam leading the other.


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

Long ATA will only reduce your available draw weight and has no effect on the way the bow shoots.


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Cam times perfect


----------



## Carbon One (Nov 4, 2007)

I have a DS4500 on the way. Does the bottom of the arrow go to the bottom of the button also. Just switched to their staff and some of this is very different than how I set up my other bows.
Thanks!#


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

I set mine up bottom through the berger holes


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Welcome aboard btw


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Was suggested a 20 strand string for a ds 4500??


----------



## AUSSIEDUDE (Apr 17, 2009)

michaelgentry87 said:


> Was suggested a 20 strand string for a ds 4500??


20 strands of what? With BCY X or 452X I would use 24 strands.


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Yes bcyx and I posted elsewhere Ted harpam, said 20 strands


----------



## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Great info. Any info on set up Dst cam on Darton vegas


----------



## shinbone (Apr 19, 2007)

debowhunter said:


> I have cam lean on my draw board as well as when I draw the bow. My a to a , brace height and cam sync are all in spec.. Center shot about 3/16 to the left of the center of the grip. Great arrow flight great grouping of arrows and a perfect bullet hole through paper however my trophy ridge alpha sight is out of windage adjustment to the left. What gives? . . .


(bumping an old but great thread to the top, again)

I have the same problem with my 3800 that debowhunter describes, above, i.e. great groups but ran out of windage adjustment on my Spot Hogg Hunter sight.

I am shooting Easton Axis arrows 31" long at 300 spine. 100gn field points. My bow set up is 30" draw length and 60 lb limbs. I am just wondering if insufficient windage adjustment range is an indication that my arrows are underspined? My read of the Easton spine chart says 300 spine should be okay, but I know sometimes Easton recommends a slightly weaker spine than ideal.


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

On target two shows your a little weak maybe drop down a lb or 3

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


----------



## shinbone (Apr 19, 2007)

michaelgentry87 said:


> On target two shows your a little weak maybe drop down a lb or 3.


Thanks for the info!!


----------



## Olink (Jan 10, 2003)

Please note that some of the advise in this thread is not accurate for the 2016 bows. For the 2016 DS series bows, Darton recommends that you run the arrow centered over the Berger hole.


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Olink said:


> Please note that some of the advise in this thread is not accurate for the 2016 bows. For the 2016 DS series bows, Darton recommends that you run the arrow centered over the Berger hole.


Over, not through?

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


----------



## Olink (Jan 10, 2003)

michaelgentry87 said:


> Over, not through?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


Arrow centered over the hole, i.e. you can't see any of the hole when looking from the side.


----------



## michaelgentry87 (Dec 23, 2014)

Ok got ya now that gow ive done 13 on up

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


----------



## aljburk (Jan 6, 2007)

bump


----------



## brendan's dad (Feb 21, 2013)

Bump,

Just confirming source on the new nock/berger hole alignment. I can not find this info in the 2016 manual or the tech sheet. Just want to make sure before I cut the d-loop.


----------



## Olink (Jan 10, 2003)

brendan's dad said:


> Bump,
> 
> Just confirming source on the new nock/berger hole alignment. I can not find this info in the 2016 manual or the tech sheet. Just want to make sure before I cut the d-loop.


I didn't see it in the manual either. I emailed Darton and asked.


----------



## brendan's dad (Feb 21, 2013)

Olink said:


> I didn't see it in the manual either. I emailed Darton and asked.


Ok, thanks. Not a big deal as I only picked up the DS3800 on Tuesday and I am at the spec tuning and and initial set up phase. Changing the d-loop will not effect anything I have done. 

2 more questions.

1. Did Darton also suggest level arrow/nock or is it still 1/8 to 3/16 nock high? 

2. What type of rest are you using? I only ask because my QAD is already touching the shelf when moved to the down position. Lowering the nock another 1/8 of an inch is going to make the QAD awful low.

Thanks again.


----------



## Olink (Jan 10, 2003)

brendan's dad said:


> Ok, thanks. Not a big deal as I only picked up the DS3800 on Tuesday and I am at the spec tuning and and initial set up phase. Changing the d-loop will not effect anything I have done.
> 
> 2 more questions.
> 
> ...


I use a Hamskea rest. I am at most 1/16" nock high.


----------



## brendan's dad (Feb 21, 2013)

center shot still at 15/16?


----------



## Olink (Jan 10, 2003)

brendan's dad said:


> center shot still at 15/16?


Mine tuned at 13/16".


----------



## brendan's dad (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks for everything


----------



## GMC (Jan 24, 2011)

Great thread that i want to see continue. I need some help/direction. Shooting a '13 DS-3800 with 60# limbs @ 26" draw. Using a QAD ultra rest and having trouble getting the clearance this rest requires with the recommended measurements Darton suggests. Any Darton shooters want to chime in?


----------



## DCarpenter (Dec 1, 2010)

Bringing this back up for a reference, lots of good info in this thread. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## brendan's dad (Feb 21, 2013)

Tagged


----------



## CaptPete (Nov 27, 2004)

Looking for a little help to get my 2016 DS-3800 to spec. I was having D-loop/peep sight issues earlier. In the process of fixing that I ended up cutiing a couple of strands in the string. I ordered a new string from 60X(cables were new this summer). I'm trying to get the bow to spec. I'm kind of stumped as where to go or what to do. 
Here is what I have:
Cam timing is as dead on as I can get it...bottom cam hits just hair before the top. If I put/take out 1/2 twist, then the top cam is hitting just a hair early. When I say a hair, I mean when one cam is touching the cable, there isn't enough room to slide a piece serving between the cable and other cam, but you can see light from a flashlight.
A2A is dead on at 33 13/16"
BH is 3/16" short
DL is 1/8" short
Peak weight is about 2lb light...getting 59.8 and should be 61.5 - 62lbs

Should I take 8-10 twists out the string, 2-3 out of the cables, then use the string to bring the A2A & DL back to spec?? Or do I put 2-3 more into the cables, then take twists out the string to get A2A & DL to spec??


----------

