# FCA making bad decisions...need opinions



## willyqbc (Sep 15, 2003)

Ok so heres the back ground, every year at the FCA 3D nationals they hold the FCA meeting pertaining to 3D where all the provincial reps sit and decide what is good for the sport. Well this year they passed a resolution that I find absolutely ludicrous. They have decided that all children cub age (12-13 yrs old) and younger will not be permitted to shoot with their parents but instead the parents will be required to provide a non-shooting chaperone for the young shooter. I would like to hear all your thoughts on this as i am in contact with the new FCA VP of 3D regarding this issue and she would like to get a feel for what people think of this new protocol. I will not try to sway opinion just yet but I am definately for having this reversed.

Thanks
Chris


----------



## Twisted Canuck (Feb 13, 2006)

I personally think its a bad idea (I refrained from saying stupid, did you notice my self control...?).

One of the best things about 3D shooting for me has been the family aspect of it. My 11 yr old daughter shot the Nationals at Lethbridge last year (won bronze), and I have as many as 4 of my kids shooting with me at our club's events here in Grande Prairie, (indoor and out)....

If I was to go to the Nationals in Dauphin next summer (which I am strongly considering), and was told my daughter couldn't shoot with me, I'd probably stay home....I'd substitute other shoots with her instead. 

If the FCA starts messing with the parent/child shooting relationship, I'm going to be amazed at the short sightedness of the ruling. A friend of mine wasn't allowed to shoot with his son at the nationals in Lethbridge (son was shooting in group of other teenage boys) and he was very unhappy about it. Figured it cost his son about 20 points a round, just because he was insecure shooting without his Dad. 

I say, leave it alone. Strongly. I shoot with my kids, or I won't go. Really. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, who can I write to regarding this?


----------



## willyqbc (Sep 15, 2003)

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments! Fortunately the new FCA VP of 3D seems to be of somewhat the same opinion. Being from Alberta you probably know her....Jude Hooey, she is with the Lethbridge club, I would suggest she would be your best contact but I have several threads running on different sites that she will be monitoring to see where the opinions are at.

Thanks
Chris


----------



## Twisted Canuck (Feb 13, 2006)

Hey Chris, yes I know Jude! I moved from the Lethbridge area (Pincher Creek actually) only two years ago. Be sure and pass my message on to her, or maybe you can pm me her email and I'll write her myself. I heard that she and Dennis shut down their shop in Lethbridge, is that right?
TC


----------



## travski (Feb 26, 2007)

Yes they did unfort


----------



## cdhunter (Feb 4, 2006)

my daughter is a pee wee target shooter I have no problems with a parent shooting along side of their child i would actually encourage organizers to promote this because it creates a good image of the sport as being family oriented the only draw back that i could see possibly creating controversy is if the parents are adjusting sights or helping with or providing the young shooter with the yardages some people may see this as a unfair advantage especially if in their target group another child is on their own.when my daughter is on the line she is responsible for all equipment adjustments she feels she requires if she is unsure she waits till the end is complete then approaches us (my wife or my self) for help no biggy


----------



## russ (Jul 29, 2002)

This is beyond bad - it's going to kill 3D as a family oriented sport.


----------



## Guest (Oct 1, 2007)

I would more inclined to find out what brought it on first then go from there. I shot the FCA 3D's this year and can easily see why some would feel it was needed to be addressed


----------



## j_man1100 (Dec 9, 2003)

I can agree and disagree with whats being said here. I think Sean is right in that we first need to identify why this proposal has been made. Is it a new policy for nationals? Is it just something talked about to be further discussed later? Before hell is raised, lets first have the facts. I don't doubt this by any means, but has it been taken out of context? 

One thing the FCA is working with is the LTAD (Long term athlete development). In that there seems to be a strong belief that we don't want "hockey parents" mentality in archery. The ones that will cheat, be aggressive and just be deceitful to have their child win a shoot. Since it looks like this rule will be a nationals only rule I'm not sure I see the big deal. Its nationals. If a child is shooting at a national level, I don't think its necessary to have a parent with them on the course. If volunteers could be arranged just to help with adding, course layout and just making sure everything runs smooth, that provides 3rd party, and impartial representation. Volunteers are hard to come by as it is at times so that might not be a practical solution. I'm sure something will be figured out, but until then, how do you think it should be dealt with? 



Twisted Canuck said:


> If the FCA starts messing with the parent/child shooting relationship, I'm going to be amazed at the short sightedness of the ruling. A friend of mine wasn't allowed to shoot with his son at the nationals in Lethbridge (son was shooting in group of other teenage boys) and he was very unhappy about it. Figured it cost his son about 20 points a round, just because he was insecure shooting without his Dad.


Now this is something I have an issue with. Nationals can certainly be intimidating, but to blame the 20 point a round drop on shooting without dad? Its the Canadian national championships. You shoot with whom you're competing. I really don't see the validity of this. If he is a teenager, he is probably responsible enough to shoot with others, and should be able to break out of his comfort zone if he's shooting at nationals. 

I see where you guys are coming from with wanting to shoot with your kids, and I had lots of fun shooting with my dad when I was that age. But you're talking about nationals. There does need to be some policy put in place to keep the aggressive parents from affecting their own and other kids. There are some great parents out there, it seems to be more about the protection from the poor ones.


----------



## willyqbc (Sep 15, 2003)

> Is it a new policy for nationals? Is it just something talked about to be further discussed later?


The motion was put forth by the Quebec rep and was seconded by the Manitoba rep and according to the meeting minutes it was passed, so I would assume it will be in place for Dauphin next year.



> I shot the FCA 3D's this year and can easily see why some would feel it was needed to be addressed


Could you expand on this please? I too shot the nationals this year and the only youth related issues we saw at all was an unchaperoned group of 16-17 year olds who were pushing up on the group ahead of them while that group was trying to shoot. Other than that I heard of no kid related issues so I would be interested to hear about your experiences there.

thanks
Chris


----------



## willyqbc (Sep 15, 2003)

here is the actual motion from the meeting minutes for anyone who is interested


4.2 3D chaperones – non-shooters 

As for target/field nationals, if parents are sending or bringing youth to the 3D nationals, the family is responsible to provide a non-shooting chaperone. If the parents are shooting, the youth archer will shoot with the youth groups, not with the adults. 



MOTION #3D2007-06 To add to the FCA rulebook that adults bringing cubs, pre-cubs or peewees to shoot the 3D nationals, must supply a non-shooting chaperone.

Moved by: QC Seconded by: MB Carried


----------



## Twisted Canuck (Feb 13, 2006)

j_man1100 said:


> I see where you guys are coming from with wanting to shoot with your kids, and I had lots of fun shooting with my dad when I was that age. But you're talking about nationals. There does need to be some policy put in place to keep the aggressive parents from affecting their own and other kids. There are some great parents out there, it seems to be more about the protection from the poor ones.



It may be the nationals, but since nobody actually needs to _qualify_ for the nationals, you may need to consider that some of us aren't there to 'compete' for the golden doughnut, its just another Big Experience that we are sharing with our kids, cuz we enjoy it. I don't really know what you mean about protecting kids from aggressive parents, I've never ever seen it at any shoot...not saying it doesn't happen, just never experienced it. 

As far as my friend's son dropping points because he wasn't shooting with his dad, its not necessary to take issue with it. It happens. Again, not everyone is there to win the big trophy, they are there to shoot for the experience and fun of it, and getting yanked away from dad (he was 13) and put with a bunch of older boys, and strangers....well it robbed his confidence I'm guessing, and took a lot of the fun out of the trip for both of them. 

I guess the next rule will be, you can't come to the nationals to have fun and enjoy the experience and meet new people, you can only come to compete hard......and if thats the case, fine, make it a 'qualified' shoot, and the rest of us will stay home while the 40 archers who are good enough to compete do ........the sport will suffer the consequences though.


----------



## russ (Jul 29, 2002)

Twisted - from what I remember of Nationals I always seemed to drop points but I hadn't developed certain skills up to the last time I had attended (1999). Add the word "nationals" and there's more pressure. As for the "hockey" parent syndrome I haven't seen it at the provincial level yet and never saw it at the 4 nationals I attended. (3 3d, 1 field)


----------



## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

Sean McKenty said:


> I would more inclined to find out what brought it on first then go from there. /QUOTE]
> 
> It *would* seem that the reasonable course of action would be to contact someone on the FCA Board and ask them what the reasoning was.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

From what I am led to beleive ...this rule would only be enforced at National Championships. That said ... here is my take...

I understand the reasoning behind it (to keep National Championships a competive atmosphere, to stop "coaching" on courseetc...)...that said I dont nessesarily agree with it, However I dont beleive that it should be the parents responsibilty to bring a Chaparone out or for one of the parents to sit out the tournament, I think at nationals it would be up to the host club to provide 1-2 adult supervisors (whether they be host club members that are not competing in the National champs or the result of Volunteer sign up from other clubs/provinces) per group of youth shooters(that said ...relations not allowed to supervise group) 

As much as i love shooting with young kids I can see some complaints about slow groups etc... at Nats .... 

Now those of you on the fence about joining a club etc ... Its in your best interest to do so, and from What I am led to beleive... this rule will be in the FCA rule book but I know that several local type clubs that I have talked to since I first heard about this wont enforce this rule .... so join your club and get out and shoot


----------



## Guest (Oct 1, 2007)

from some initial inquiers it would appear that that this is little more than house keeping since this rule is also in both target and field.


As for what I saw at this years Nationals,well before during and after there were several instances that could be easily taken out of context that would lead one to believe that there was some sort of underhandedness going on by some "parents?', there was the paper being given to a little guy with the instruction that they are in order from your first target or the Parent? saying remember the pig is at max etc. Just those two instances you could jump to the conclusion that something wasn't right and needed to be fixed, thinking that the "fix" had no down side itself.

I have been on the OAA board since 1986 and was FCA director for a few years and have found that the only exersise archers get is jumping to conclusions, most rules we have reflect that


find out why first


----------



## pintojk (Jan 31, 2003)

*I kinda agree with this one .....*

for a National Championship event, they should shoot with their peers ..... but on the other hand the FCA should supply the "chaperone" not force the parents to have to foot the bill for one.

Just my $0.02

PintoJK


----------



## thunderbolt (Oct 11, 2002)

pintojk said:


> for a National Championship event, they should shoot with their peers ..... but on the other hand the FCA should supply the "chaperone" not force the parents to have to foot the bill for one.
> 
> Just my $0.02
> 
> PintoJK


Make that a nickel! I agree with you on this


----------



## Lionel (Jul 16, 2002)

This thread is also running on Bowzone. Interesting idas there.

Lionel


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

TC if we both make it to Nat's I will trade you. I will shot with your kids and you shoot with my parents:wink: 

you think that kids need supervision,they are both masters and they treat me like their safety blanket or something

(mom and dad if you are reading this it is all in jest:elch

Reed


----------



## Twisted Canuck (Feb 13, 2006)

Reed said:


> TC if we both make it to Nat's I will trade you. I will shot with your kids and you shoot with my parents:wink:
> 
> you think that kids need supervision,they are both masters and they treat me like their safety blanket or something
> 
> ...



There goes your inheritance!!:wink:....Since your out of the picture, maybe I can suck up to them and get a piece of your pie?


----------



## Reed (Jun 18, 2002)

Twisted Canuck said:


> There goes your inheritance!!:wink:....Since your out of the picture, maybe I can suck up to them and get a piece of your pie?



I am working on spending me/your inheritance as we speek:wink:

Reed


----------



## Twisted Canuck (Feb 13, 2006)

Well as long as you're spending _*our*_ inheritance, keep your eyes open for a cherry 67 camaro, Big Block preferred..... (for ME!!)


----------



## Bowzone_Mikey (Dec 11, 2003)

for those interested ...please have a look at this thread 

http://forum.bowzone.ca/showthread.php?t=7063&page=1&pp=10


----------

