# drop away rests



## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Ode1891 said:


> I don't see many people using drop away rests at indoor or field shoots. Any reason for that? I shot fiar with my mathews drop away last year, should I expect to shoot the same, better, or worse if I move to a stationary rest?


Drop away rests work good but its another moving part thats complicates the trouble shooting process when something goes wrong ( is it falling, timing issues, etc...)

I used to swear by a fallaway until i had 4 of em lock up on me on season so now I strictly shoot a balde and it has never falied me... Unless I bend the blade ukeyDCWC)and then you just keep a few extra in the quiver replace it and in 2 shots at most your back in the game.

Best concept in archery is the k.i.s.s. concept and a balde is the best answer IMO


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

I think most shy away from drop aways for a couple reasons, the most important of which is they are just too complex. Too many things that can go wrong...more moving parts=more chance of a failure. I subscripe to the K.I.S.S. principle, and a blade rest has few if any moving parts...I know that is my reason at least...

Looks like x-hunter beat me to it...


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

I'm concerned about the vane clearance using a blade rest such as the Trophy Taker spring steel...it just seems like there has to be some contact between the blade and the vanes. Obviously it can't be an issue to worry about since most people shoot off stationary rests.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

Ode1891 said:


> I'm concerned about the vane clearance using a blade rest such as the Trophy Taker spring steel...it just seems like there has to be some contact between the blade and the vanes. Obviously it can't be an issue to worry about since most people shoot off stationary rests.


:nono:You shouldn't have an issue with contact as long as your nock point isn't low...If you do get a little contact, it is easy enough to identify and tune out...Make sure to look at the pro-tuner as well...(my personal preference)...


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Ode1891 said:


> I'm concerned about the vane clearance using a blade rest such as the Trophy Taker spring steel...it just seems like there has to be some contact between the blade and the vanes. Obviously it can't be an issue to worry about since most people shoot off stationary rests.


That is a valid concern(i thought the same when i was shooting a fallaway) but if tuned properly in accoradiance with the correct blade(not necessairly what the pack says you need) vane clearance is no issue... I shot navigators with extreme helical on them last year off a blade with no fletching issues at all....

A common misperception is that you must have a bullet hole through the paper tuner.... This is not the case some of my bset groups have been shot with a 1/2 shaft high left tear (right handed archer this pushes the arrow up and away from the rest)... The paper is not something to live or die by it is a starting point in the tuning process followed by group tuning at medium to long range distances (40-80yds).... Personally i start out with a bullet hole and by the time my group tuning gets me to 80 yds almost always ive moved a hole mark or more on the rest....


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

psargeant said:


> :nono:You shouldn't have an issue with contact as long as your nock point isn't low...If you do get a little contact, it is easy enough to identify and tune out...Make sure to look at the pro-tuner as well...(my personal preference)...


Tuners or TT spring steel will do a fine job... I prefer the TT though mainly because you prefer the Pro Tuner and we all know you suck!!!


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## Bees (Jan 28, 2003)

Ode1891 said:


> I'm concerned about the vane clearance using a blade rest such as the Trophy Taker spring steel...it just seems like there has to be some contact between the blade and the vanes. Obviously it can't be an issue to worry about since most people shoot off stationary rests.



If you have the proper arrow spine and the rest and blade and knocking point are set correctly the arrow is not on the rest when the fletchings pass over it. therefore no contact.


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## psargeant (Aug 1, 2004)

X Hunter said:


> Tuners or TT spring steel will do a fine job... I prefer the TT though mainly because you prefer the Pro Tuner and we all know you suck!!!


Got that right...


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Bees said:


> If you have the proper arrow spine and the rest and blade and knocking point are set correctly the arrow is not on the rest when the fletchings pass over it. therefore no contact.


What he said....I shoot my 530 Nanos off the same blade I shoot my indoor arrows and have zero contact issues.


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Brown Hornet said:


> What he said....I shoot my 530 Nanos off the same blade I shoot my indoor arrows and have zero contact issues.


Ya but you let Pinto beat you at LAS. ukey:

So from here on out nothing you say can be taken seriously.


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Moparmatty said:


> Ya but you let Pinto beat you at LAS. ukey:
> 
> So from here on out nothing you say can be taken seriously.


you mean you took him seriously at one point!!!!:mg:


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

X Hunter said:


> you mean you took him seriously at one point!!!!:mg:


No! I was just trying to make the little guy feel good about himself for a small moment.


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## X Hunter (Jan 11, 2007)

Moparmatty said:


> No! I was just trying to make the little guy feel good about himself for a small moment.


Like when he said only a dumbarse can wreck a segway???


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

X Hunter said:


> Like when he said only a dumbarse can wreck a segway???


Exactly!


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Moparmatty said:


> Ya but you let Pinto beat you at LAS. ukey:
> 
> So from here on out nothing you say can be taken seriously.


Like I told him when he thought he had done something......

If you loose to a guy that has shot maybe 100 arrows at 20 yds since Aug you need to quit.....


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

X Hunter said:


> Like when he said only a dumbarse can wreck a segway???


No I said only a dumbass wrecks a Segway in the parking lot.....

the sad thing is you shoot good....and nobody takes you serious


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## Moparmatty (Jun 23, 2003)

Brown Hornet said:


> Like I told him when he thought he had done something......
> 
> If you loose to a guy that has shot maybe 100 arrows at 20 yds since Aug you need to quit.....


Well Bro'Ho'........ It's hard to argue with that logic. You make a very strong and correct point here. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

*sorry to interrupt, but I have another question*



Bees said:


> If you have the proper arrow spine and the rest and blade and knocking point are set correctly the arrow is not on the rest when the fletchings pass over it. therefore no contact.


I'm pretty clear on setting up a rest and tuning a bow, as a novice, but I am not understanding how you know whether the arrow shaft or vane are making too much contact with whatever fixed rest you use. How do you determine that the rest is set correctly? I can get fairly good groups through a whisker biscuit, but that is no indication of a good set up. So I guess my question has more to do with minimizing contact with the rest. How do you verify that the shaft is launching with even/balanced contact and no vane interference?


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Back to topic... :lol:

A couple of ways that you can check for shaft/vane clearance around the rest and riser shelf.. one is to take some foot powder spray and spray the shelf and rest area (prongs, etc.. ) Let it dry and shoot an arrow or three.... if you are getting contact, the powder will have streaks or scuff marks where the contact is occurring... you can also use lipstick on the vane edges and a clean riser/rest and the lipstick will transfer from the vane edges to the riser/rest if there is contact.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

What Sticky said....

But I still just eyeball and level everything....granted I have a lot more experience so I know what I am looking for. I don't like using powder because it smells, and is a pain to get off the arrow....and I don't use lipstick 

I set my blade at the proper angle...it's usually there already since I can't remember the last time I adjusted mine...then set my arrow at TOUCH above 90....then I eyeball my vanes for clearance and shoot through paper. It usually doesn't take me more then 2-3 arrows to get a bullet hole or a slight nock high left tear. 

After that I go to group tuning. Once things are grouping well I then start making small adjustments to my nock rotation to get all of my arrows impacting at nearly the exact same point....then I go back to group tuning. Sometimes I will work on the nocks before I do any group tuning....it just depends if I have been shooting those arrows already or not. 

Don't over think it. :wink:


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

*thanks*

Thanks, just looking to understand what I'm doing. When I shot a fixed rest, the bow shop did 100% of the work on all my stuff and I never did anything to tune other than moving my sight for broadheads. When I started doing most of my own work, and tuning, I was allready using drop aways.

Do you have much offset? For indoor I have a good bit of offset right with 4" feathers and they rotate about 15% when they pass the rest. I had to set my odd feather in towards the riser to have the feathers not conatact the rest. I did the powder thing last weekend, but I used baby powder on the shaft, my wife said it smelled nice when I shot. 

Does that sound right for a lot of right offset? Starts Rotating as soon as it launches? I would have thought that the shaft did not rotate until it got out in front of the bow. Can the string contacting an STS cause that? Or is that just normal arrow flight? I'm sure somebody has done slow motion video


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

It really is pretty simple to set up a rest.....

Put it on the bow.....set the launcher so it cradles the arrow to pass through the berger hole.

Set the rest to where the manufacture states you should start....or just eyeball it to pass through the center of the string. 

Set your loop at 90 or a hair above and shoot it through paper. :wink:

As for helical....I don't shoot as much outdoors as I will or do indoors. My arrows just don't seem to group as well and they slow down faster because of the extra drag.

The arrow will not really start to rotate until it clears the bow....usually at least a few yards past the bow. I remember a slow mo video from a few years ago and an arrow doesn't rotate nearly as many times in 20 yds as you think it does. :wink:

Here is a video of Braden G. It's not really super slow mo but you can see that the arrow hasn't done a full rotation until well after it left the bow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVuw4DiIn5o


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

I used foot powder spray on the shaft and had to rotate the nocks a little. Shooting it through paper , I had to drop the rest about an eighth inch to get a bullet hole at all distances through paper. Set up is easy once you figure this out....because I have lots of right offset, the shaft does begin to rotate a little so that I have the odd vane pointed straight at the riser. When the arrow passes over the rest, that vane is on the right side of the launcher blade, about 1/8 turn. The launcher leaves a mark in the powder on the shaft, but only from one side/tip of the launcher. I'm thinking that is being caused by either the shaft rotation or the STS maybe causing the launch to be not-so balanced. 

If I took off the STS, the arrow would stay on the string further and then I would not have the rotation. I'll try less offset and take off the sts next year. It's shooting great for now. 

It's all good.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Good now go back to 40....50...60...70...what ever distance you fell comfy shooting at and group tune.:wink:


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

*Nah, nope, not happnin.....*

I bought a second Mathews Ovation so I now have one for indoor and one for field. I was setting the bow up from scratch when I went from indoor to field every season and I left the field set-up on the bow until 1/30 when hunting was over. So I have never been able to shoot either seasons from start to finish. My plan is to finally get each bow set up and leave'm alone. Because most of my spare time is spent hunting, I did not even start trying to get the indoor bow set up until late this January and then I spent several weeks trying to see if I could shoot BHFSL (fingers). The bow isn't long enough for me, so I've been hurrying to get it changed from a plunger to the TT spring steel. I'm statisfied with it the way it is and now all I have to do shoot decent for the next 8 weeks. :wink:

Now that I'm setting up two bows for target shooting, I'll be able to spend more time shooting and less time tinkering. With one bow as a back up hunting bow, as my indoor bow, and as my field bow, I was setting it up three times a year for different arrows and poundage. If the target butts on indoor ranges were more forgiving, I probably would have one set up for all target. The only reason I shoot 2315 for indoor is for easier arrow removal. 

Point being, for this indoor season, the bow is done. During the indoor off season, I'll cut these 2315s a bit shorter, refletch with less offset, and maybe take off the STS. 


By the way, I agree that setting up a fixed rest is a lot simpler than a drop away. Sometimes with a drop away, you have to move or re-tie the d-loop to adjust the nock height because the rope to the cable has to be timed to keep the arrow up in a certain range of arrow travel and if you move the rest that'll change.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

OK....so it's stricly an indoor bow....you can still group tune @ 20 without shooting groups. Just shoot a game and read the holes in the target.:wink:


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

I shot a 300 make up round for league today and they're grouping pretty well. Shot a 297 with 34-Xs. I shoot BHFS , so I'm happy if I shoot >295. For the first round after setting it up I'm real pleased.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Ode1891 said:


> I shot a 300 make up round for league today and they're grouping pretty well. Shot a 297 with 34-Xs. I shoot BHFS , so I'm happy if I shoot >295. For the first round after setting it up I'm real pleased.


Shooting pretty well and grouping well are two different things....:wink:

Where were your misses?


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## Ode1891 (Aug 30, 2006)

Brown Hornet said:


> Shooting pretty well and grouping well are two different things....:wink:
> 
> Where were your misses?


If you mean non Xs,
some were left
some were right
occasionally low

My 4s were from punching


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Ode1891 said:


> If you mean non Xs,
> some were left
> some were right
> occasionally low
> ...


Ok then IGNORE the 4s....and any other punched shots that didn't end up in the 4 ring....those are form/execution issues.

Where the left and rights more two one side....if the vast majority of them were on the left with a couple on the right....then ignore the right ones....or vice versa. You can even look at the ones in the X....

Your target should tell you where you are grouping....also have you played with your nocks at all? I will rotate them one at a time until I get them all impacting in virtually the same place.


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