# What's the deal with GRIV!!!



## rebeldawg (Jan 10, 2014)

Did anyone else watch any of the live feed from Sunday at Lancaster? They had the almighty GRIV co hosting the event (since he didn't come close to making the cut). Meanwhile he criticizing the form and release of some of the pros who they were televising! Are you kidding me? Well you know what they say. Those who can do, those who cannot coach! Very unprofessional.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

There is critiquing, and there is criticizing.
He was critiquing, and often he would explain that what they did worked for them, and he wouldn't say they were "wrong", but it's not something he would teach (Reo's form for example).
He gave reasons for what he was saying, and it made sense.
I thought it was done respectfully.

Griv may not be at work he top of his game, but he knows what he is talking about.

And before this gets deleted or locked, please everyone remember: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!!


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Can't knock what he said..... Another coach probably would have his own description of things.


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## 4ferraros (Dec 14, 2013)

His students came in second and third in the youth class so he must be doing something right .


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

He has been putting in tons of blood sweat and tears building up his youth archers who are currently some of the best in the country, traveling to provide seminars, and being an approachable ambassador to this sport. I think it is great that he shot in the Classic at all knowing how very little time he has had to work on his own game. 

What he stated during the commentary was spot on and if you took the time to really listen to what was being said by he and John, you could have picked up quite a few pearls to improve your own game. 

Before you go about dissing the hard work of others, spend some time in their shoes. I don't believe I saw you at Lancaster at all.


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## rebeldawg (Jan 10, 2014)

If you were there you didn't watch the feed so you don't know what he said. And some of it was critical not observing. All I'm saying is if they beat you yesterday don't criticize them today.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

rebeldawg said:


> If you were there you didn't watch the feed so you don't know what he said. And some of it was critical not observing. All I'm saying is if they beat you yesterday don't criticize them today.


Actually, I was there on Saturday and watched the feeds on Friday and Sunday, so I know exactly what was said.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

rebeldawg said:


> ...if they beat you yesterday don't criticize them today.


Wondering if that is what Tiger Woods says to his golf coach when the coach critiques his swing....


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

rebeldawg said:


> Did anyone else watch any of the live feed from Sunday at Lancaster? They had the almighty GRIV co hosting the event (since he didn't come close to making the cut). Meanwhile he criticizing the form and release of some of the pros who they were televising! Are you kidding me? Well you know what they say. Those who can do, those who cannot coach! Very unprofessional.





Mahly said:


> There is critiquing, and there is criticizing.
> He was critiquing, and often he would explain that what they did worked for them, and he wouldn't say they were "wrong", but it's not something he would teach (Reo's form for example).
> He gave reasons for what he was saying, and it made sense.
> I thought it was done respectfully.
> ...


Well, I didn't hear what he said, but the George Ryals IV that I have followed, have been personally coached by and has provided some of the most useful information this site has ever had, just isn't like that. I believe Mahly's assessment is right on the money. As far as his shooting a 641... well I'll take that any day of the week...


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## rebeldawg (Jan 10, 2014)

Woo weee! I guess I'll add the GRIV to the list with likes of Levi. People not to mention on AT unless your adorning them with praise. Good lord people.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

rebeldawg said:


> Woo weee! I guess I'll add the GRIV to the list with likes of Levi. People not to mention on AT unless your adorning them with praise. Good lord people.


ohhhh stop that... c'mon, fellers, quit being so sensitive.... I thought the commentary was great, from GRIV and John Dudley both. Especially when they were wondering who would win in a fight between Jesse Broadwater and Kendall Woody during the finals. They were on the line shooting for their lives and JD's like "ok, now just a hypothetical here.... suppose Woody went up to Broadwater and just went 'I don't like your shoelaces'... and Broadwater comes back and says 'ok so are we going to do this'...... what you think would happen"...... I'm still just guffawing over that, that was just perfect....

But even the more serious commentary was still great, loads of great info, etc.....
JMO,

LS


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

I thought the commentary when Reo and Cousins was having a shoot off was pretty juvenile.


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## Sasquech (Dec 15, 2014)

Hey it is simple tiger wood's coach has no hope of beating tiger but anyone in the country would take advice or lessons from him. As for the guys on the podium many have weird idiosyncrasies associated with their form Dave cousins Reo each have some things not everyone can do Dave shoots right handed with the string on the left side of his nose. Reo had the lean in his form and both Dave and Reo have in their respective spheres held remarkable levels of accuracy. But most of us aren't them and as such should start with standard form until we get to the point where we customize the form to get us those last few x's. Griv has made many championship level shooters and can beat most of us on any given day. He has said a few things I really don't agree with but on average he gets it pretty right and I respect him.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

rebeldawg said:


> Woo weee! I guess I'll add the GRIV to the list with likes of Levi. People not to mention on AT unless your adorning them with praise. Good lord people.


Wait, you feel restricted because you call a top coach/professional archer, "unprofessional" for critiquing some of the shooters on the line while doing commentary, and some here disagree?


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## Fury90flier (Jun 27, 2012)

rebeldawg said:


> Did anyone else watch any of the live feed from Sunday at Lancaster? They had the almighty GRIV co hosting the event (since he didn't come close to making the cut). Meanwhile he criticizing the form and release of some of the pros who they were televising! Are you kidding me? Well you know what they say. Those who can do, those who cannot coach! Very unprofessional.


Sounds like you should be focusing more on YOU. 

Where did you place at Lancaster?


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

montigre said:


> Before you go about dissing the hard work of others, spend some time in their shoes. I don't believe I saw you at Lancaster at all.


I didn't see anyone dissing the hard work of others. What I did see was someone providing an opinion on something he thought kind of inappropriate. And I'm not sure that just because someone wasn't at Lancaster that means their opinion of what they saw wasn't valid.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Fury90flier said:


> Sounds like you should be focusing more on YOU.
> 
> Where did you place at Lancaster?


It was the OP's opinion. 

What does the OP's place or even if he/she was at Lancaster have to do with his opinion about the commentary? 

I still haven't heard or saw the feed, but this isn't the first I've heard mention of it. Must have set wrong with more than one person.


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

montigre said:


> He has been putting in tons of blood sweat and tears building up his youth archers who are currently some of the best in the country, traveling to provide seminars, and being an approachable ambassador to this sport. I think it is great that he shot in the Classic at all knowing how very little time he has had to work on his own game.
> 
> What he stated during the commentary was spot on and if you took the time to really listen to what was being said by he and John, you could have picked up quite a few pearls to improve your own game.
> 
> Before you go about dissing the hard work of others, spend some time in their shoes. I don't believe I saw you at Lancaster at all.


I agree.

Everytime I seen him eating diner at Vegas he always had his youth archers with him. He is helping grow the sport.


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## Acefoxtrot (Aug 10, 2007)

I thought both did a very good job. I actually like the back stories about the archers. Since this was the first time for a broadcast, I think there will be improvements made and next year will be even better. I actually liked the fact that they pointed out their opinions on how other archers did things they noticed and pointed out to us. There is no doubt they know what they are talking about. I took several good pointers away from the broadcast. My guess is next year they probably need someone covering the sidelines and then have like a play by play guy and then a color commentary like you see in football and basketball or something. World Archery has an interesting setup, but they are only covering one match at a time, whereas Lancaster had 3-4 gong off at once. Cant wait for more coverage. Thanks Lancaster for doing it and investing the money to do it.


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## EPLC (May 21, 2002)

rebeldawg said:


> Woo weee! I guess I'll add the GRIV to the list with likes of Levi. People not to mention on AT unless your adorning them with praise. Good lord people.


GRIV has made the shoot-off at Vegas at least once... which is more than most professional archers can claim.


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

Lazarus said:


> I didn't see anyone dissing the hard work of others. What I did see was someone providing an opinion on something he thought kind of inappropriate. And I'm not sure that just because someone wasn't at Lancaster that means their opinion of what they saw wasn't valid.


Laz, I realize the OP is a buddy of yours and he is, as is everyone, entitled to their opinion. However it is the manner in which that opinion was expressed in a public forum which many, including myself, are finding disrespectful and distasteful. You have been around the block in this sport and know what a small community it really is. It is sad that you are blindly (since you have not heard what was said in the feeds) standing by his comments while he is openly burning bridges before he even gets to them.


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## erdman41 (May 6, 2009)

The commentary about the lady shooting olympic recurve dressed in a Hunger Games get up had the Brent Musberger Miss Alabama creepy vibe going on as well.


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## unclejane (Jul 22, 2012)

Keep in mind also, John Dudley seems to have just found out he's going to have to have a shoulder replaced. A major health issue, not to mention one directly affecting the sport that your life is devoted to, well, you're just not yourself when going through something like that. So hell for all we know, with all that stuff weighing on his mind, that could be mildly affecting his commentary. I obviously don't know him or how he normally is, but I've gone through major life-altering health problems and know their effects on someone's general personality. 

Yeah maybe the Hunger Games gal commentary was a little over the line into creepy-land, but still.... At least for John Dudley, I'd not be surprised he's a bit out of sorts at the moment.

LS


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

For those who wish to complain about Griv or anyone else in competitive archery,
Please PM them personally.

This forum is not the place to attack or insult anyone!


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Unlocked.


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## USMCKoontz (Jul 26, 2014)

So where can you watch these feeds at? I wanna b able to watch them...


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

rebeldawg said:


> Did anyone else watch any of the live feed from Sunday at Lancaster? They had the almighty GRIV co hosting the event (since he didn't come close to making the cut). Meanwhile he criticizing the form and release of some of the pros who they were televising! Are you kidding me? Well you know what they say. Those who can do, those who cannot coach! Very unprofessional.


I just found this... I don't get on AT much lately and I'm beginning to remember why.

@ RebelDawg - Whoa!!! that's rough. Chill dude... It ain't like that.

Ok, Here's the deal. I didn't intend to criticize anyone. I was pointing out their style for the viewers. I was told to speak from a coaches viewpoint. I never said anyone was bad. In fact i commented that everyone has their own style. Some may not be "by the book" but it works. Every one of those guys shooting are friends with the exception of one I hadn't met yet. I meant no disrespect to anyone and Those guys and I talk form all the time when we are shooting together. Kendall Woody shot with me at USA Indoor Nationals and we went over the whole long D-Loop thing and He and I talked about a mid round tune change, which he made. Soon after he Kicked My TAIL!! on the second half.

You Mentioned I didn't make the cut... It's because those guys are freaking good!!! They beat me out in the 16th. I'm working on it though.... Stand by More to come on that front. :wink:


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## MuddMotorDD (Jan 17, 2015)

Handled with class as always! Thank you sir for what you do for this sport…Steve


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## Huntinsker (Feb 9, 2012)

It's too bad that stuff like this keeps these pros off the forums. I've collected a bunch of "knowledge gems" from you GRIV and I for one appreciate you, what you do for our sport and your willingness to share your knowledge with us "wannabes".


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## sixstringer4528 (Feb 28, 2014)

I very much enjoyed the commentary between George Ryals and Dudley. There is a form of criticism called "constructive criticism" if you weren't aware & honestly they weren't even providing constructive criticism. They were both simply pointing out that the archers form was not by textbook definition and then recognizing that "hey who cares he's a heck of a shooter". I know that Reo leans back excessively but I could care less being he just broke a record. Mike schloesser's draw length might be a tad long but he did happen to shoot a perfect score at Vegas.

Hope this helps


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## sixstringer4528 (Feb 28, 2014)

USMCKoontz said:


> So where can you watch these feeds at? I wanna b able to watch them...


World Archery TV YouTube channel.


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## archer_nm (Mar 29, 2004)

You tell um George, the rest of you Johnny come latelys's can go suck an egg. I have know George for more years than some of you have been on this earth and you will not find a better ambassador to Archery than this man. The nerve of you to criticize him is just unbeleaveable he has forgotten more about archery than most of you will ever know. For that mater I problerly know more than you, anything he says you can take to the bank. Please think about what you are going post before you write such horrible things and make sure your facts are correct before you open your mouth.


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## cc122368 (May 30, 2010)

I enjoy watching your video's don't let some keep you from posting on here. I have a good friend who shoots for Hoyt and is a Hoyt rep that says he dose not get on here much I kind of see why such a shame.


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

rebeldawg, just to catch you up, GRIV was one of the founders of AT and worked his entire career promoting the sport.

He is an acknowledged expert in the field of archery.

I would suggest you get more experience and knowledge before you openly, in a public form, attempt to criticize one of the men who helped create the very form you use to run him down.

I'm betting you've never even met the guy.

Put the shoe on the other foot and ask yourself how you'd respond to the kind of slander you laid on George.


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## AdvanTimberLou (Aug 8, 2005)

GRIV's one of the best. For what he shares with us and his working with the Hornets, no way should he be ridiculed. Unless you can beat him and those at the top, best to focus on your own X count instead of someone elses! 

Thanks for chiming in GRIV, wish it was not for having to defend yourself my friend.


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## rohpenguins (Dec 2, 2012)

It's sad that guys like GRIV don't frequent AT much anymore. We are the ones who miss out on great information.


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## aread (Dec 25, 2009)

I'm a little conflicted. I like George and wish him the best with his shooting, but if he's still in the running, that means he won't be in the announcer's booth. 

I thought that he and John did a great job considering the resources they were given. There was no maliciousness in anything they said, but there were some great tips on improving our games.

Allen


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## GRIV (May 20, 2002)

LOL Allen, Every year i get the question. "not that we want you to lose or anything like that, but if you do... will you get on the mic and chatter with us?" I always respond with "I'd love to but I'll be busy in the shoot off." Then later i climb up on the podium and put the headset on. LOL 

I appreciate the support guys. You don't need to skin rebeldawg over it. He's just speaking his mind. Not realizing that we pros have a close relationship, can make it seem like we are running each other down. Truth is we say even worse to each other face to face, all in good fun of course. 

I'll work on spending more time here and help out from time to time as I can. Now... Y'all put your phones and computers away and go shoot a quick 30.


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## Padgett (Feb 5, 2010)

I sure don't mind standing up for a good guy and great coach and griv is one of those people.


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## SonnyThomas (Sep 10, 2006)

Thanks Griv............


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## Iowa shooter (Feb 23, 2013)

GRIV said:


> LOL Allen, Every year i get the question. "not that we want you to lose or anything like that, but if you do... will you get on the mic and chatter with us?" I always respond with "I'd love to but I'll be busy in the shoot off." Then later i climb up on the podium and put the headset on. LOL
> 
> I appreciate the support guys. You don't need to skin rebeldawg over it. He's just speaking his mind. Not realizing that we pros have a close relationship, can make it seem like we are running each other down. Truth is we say even worse to each other face to face, all in good fun of course.
> 
> I'll work on spending more time here and help out from time to time as I can. Now... Y'all put your phones and computers away and go shoot a quick 30.


Thank you for the YouTube videos. Please do more videos, disable the comments, and avoid the idiots.


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## schnauza2000 (Dec 27, 2013)

Just for some perspective here, folks should realize that coaching aint easy, and that you don't necessarily have to be a world champ or a hall of fame athlete to be a good coach. For example- Bill Belichick wasn't a good college football player, was too small and not very athletic. He never played in the pros, yet, is one of the best coaches in history. Compare that to Muhammad Ali, one of the top pound-for-pound fighters of all time, and he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. Just because the coach couldn't do it better than the great athlete in the arena doesn't mean the coach can't point out mistakes. It's obvious the guy is a great teacher- let's let him teach.
As a personal shout out to Griv, had it not been for him, I never would have learned how to make a Sugru grip or shoot a hinge with a relaxed hand.


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Thing with Griv though, he actually IS a great archer on top of coach.
Sometimes you can have both!


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## reylamb (Feb 5, 2003)

archer_nm said:


> You tell um George, the rest of you Johnny come latelys's can go suck an egg. I have know George for more years than some of you have been on this earth and you will not find a better ambassador to Archery than this man. The nerve of you to criticize him is just unbeleaveable he has forgotten more about archery than most of you will ever know. For that mater I problerly know more than you, anything he says you can take to the bank. Please think about what you are going post before you write such horrible things and make sure your facts are correct before you open your mouth.


So.....what you are saying is that you and GRIVLY are.......OLD!!!!!!


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## redman (Feb 22, 2003)

Thank you griv for all the great info .


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## LMacD (Mar 16, 2015)

GRIV said:


> Now... Y'all put your phones and computers away and go shoot a quick 30.


This!!! ^^


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

If a person chooses to live in the limelight they best put on their big boy pants to weather the (sometimes unfair) criticism that comes with it. Criticism to someone that wants to excel shouldn't be viewed as unfair, it's one persons opinion. It _could be_ a learning experience. 

For those of you who have railed on the OP for stating his opinion, shame on you, it was his opinion. He wasn't (as I saw one person say) "slandering" the subject of the OP, and I never saw anywhere that he questions the subject of the OP's contribution to the sport as some of you have implied. Shame on you too. 

The OP's wording may have been a little harsh, but for all we know the person being (what he saw as unfairly) critiqued may have been his good friend.

To each their own. :cheers:


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## rebeldawg (Jan 10, 2014)

hey guys the OP here.... I never said GRIV wasn't a stud archer or stud coach. In fact he is all of those things. I felt it was unfair the way a particular archers release was being criticized. And yes to the previous poster, he is a friend of mine. And to everyone else who is waaaay to bent out of shape that I criticized there hero, I would have said the same thing if it were Rio or Levi making the comments. I say the same thing about sports commentators on TV, I say the same thing about the parent who stands on the sideline criticizing the high school athletes. Just because its easy to critique from the sideline doesn't mean its appropriate to do so. Not to mention I guarantee 90% of you all didn't even watch the Lancaster shoot off and see what I was referring to. So to GRIV I apologize for criticizing you. To the rest of you who jumped on me for doing so........ well nevermind.


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## Lazarus (Sep 19, 2005)

Hey rebeldawg, your spelling sucks! 

There. :teeth:


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## montigre (Oct 13, 2008)

I watched the commentary in person at LAS and online.... The manner in which the OP made his statement was not one of disagreement on the manner in which the commentary was being done, but rather, had the teeth and bite of a form of cyber bullying. 

Using terms like "the almighty" and "...didn't come close to making the cut were done not to add substance to his post, but to defame/insult/minimize a well-respected archer. 

I don't give two hooties if someone disagrees with another person(s)--debate is the spice of life and from conflicting opinions come some really great discussions, but when it is done in a manner that is overbearing and disrespectful toward the subject, then it s hould be redirected or terminated.

Laz, if you are not able to see the original post as a form of cyber bullying, then shame on you... :wink:


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## carlosii (Feb 25, 2007)

That's it, rebeldawg...I'm never buyin' another Elite bow.

:icon_1_lol:


(Just funnin' witch ya.  )


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## Mahly (Dec 18, 2002)

Maybe we look at it as something to learn from.
There isn't a need for attacking people here, and at the same time, it's all too easy to read something into someone else's words.

Personally, I read the OP as being pretty aggressive, more so than I thought needed.
Maybe he didn't MEAN to be as aggressive as I read it, maybe he did.

In the end, remember that when talking about other people (even famous ones) to show respect for the person and let them defend themselves and/or their opinions.

Archery is a limited community to start with. Dedicated target archers a small part of that community. Do we really need to beat each other up? I think not.


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## scootershooter1 (May 6, 2013)

I particularly enjoyed the commentary very much. It went from very serious and technical stuff with lots of little tid bits to file away to Griv and Dudley discussing the advents of a sword stabilizer on mid evil war bows. Just enough of everything to keep any audience entertained. "People keep trying to feed me....Yes I'd like some nachos.....I will not let any of this delicious fake cheese go to waste......I think I got fake cheese on the mic......." Griv. I personally think they both did a good job at keeping it light hearted and fun with a lot of good information mixed in as well. Archery is supposed to be fun, right?


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## USMCKoontz (Jul 26, 2014)

sixstringer4528 said:


> World Archery TV YouTube channel.


I dont see it anywhere? Only see Field shoots, not 3d?


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## jhinaz (Mar 1, 2003)

USMCKoontz said:


> I dont see it anywhere? Only see Field shoots, not 3d?


Are you looking for a video of 3D or the 2015 Lancaster Classic? If Lancaster Classic, here's Part 1 (get Part 2 - 6 from the 'next up' menu). JD's commentating begins at 5:10. - John
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMMPjSCaCVo


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## TNMAN (Oct 6, 2009)

rebeldawg said:


> hey guys the OP here.... I never said GRIV wasn't a stud archer or stud coach. In fact he is all of those things. *I felt it was unfair the way a particular archers release was being criticized. And yes to the previous poster, he is a friend of mine. * And to everyone else who is waaaay to bent out of shape that I criticized there hero, I would have said the same thing if it were Rio or Levi making the comments. I say the same thing about sports commentators on TV, I say the same thing about the parent who stands on the sideline criticizing the high school athletes. Just because its easy to critique from the sideline doesn't mean its appropriate to do so. Not to mention I guarantee 90% of you all didn't even watch the Lancaster shoot off and see what I was referring to. So to GRIV I apologize for criticizing you. To the rest of you who jumped on me for doing so........ well nevermind.


If your buddy is named Dustin, it was JD who commented on his release in Part 1 at 29:50....not GRIV.


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## CarbonWarrior (Apr 12, 2014)

I shot like, a 589
I SUCKED!
Griv, come coach me! 
 LOL... ya'all chill. Let armchair quarterbacks do that... and, lets just all enjoy the spectacle. I had a blast there... even after losing my lower draw stop 1.5 minutes before scoring started. It was a blast being around all those fellow archers... all acting professionally.
We could only WISH everyone on here would conduct themselves the way everyone actually shooting in Lancaster did.


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