# Lens Magnification



## Praeger

I recommend starting with a 2x or 4x lens to start. You only should use enough magnification to see the target in enough detail to center your pin/dot/circle (whichever aiming reticle you choose). I would even consider trying a scope and not use a lens (you will need a fiber optic pin to use as an aiming point since there is no lens on which to stick a dot). Depending on the shooters eyesight, beginning at 4x you may need a clarifier - a small lens housed in the peep sight to sharpen the magnified image. Beyond magnifying the image, high magnifications will also magnify any shake or movement in the bow as seen through the sight. This can be distracting and cause an archer to shift focus from the target to a now jittery pin or dot. 

For more information, search in the General Archery, Field Archery, and 3D Archery sub-forums. There are several good threads which discuss scope size, pin vs dot, and of course brand preference. As with much in this sport, a great deal of preference is subjective. Most compound archers I know simply try different combinations and settle into a system that works for them.


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## Stash

I'm of the opinion that the archer needs to decide through trial and error what works best for them. Nobody sees what another person sees - everyone's eyes are different to some degree. It's best to buy (or borrow) a range of lenses and have her decide for herself what she prefers. If you have to decide on only one lens, something in the middle range (4X) as Praeger suggests, is the safest choice to start. 

One person recommending another to use a 4X (or whatever) without knowing the specifics of the person and their equipment, especially the length of the sight extension, is useless. A 4X for a tall person with a long sight extension will give a vastly different magnification than for a short person with a short sight extension.


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## auntrout

Praeger said:


> I recommend starting with a 2x or 4x lens to start. You only should use enough magnification to see the target in enough detail to center your pin/dot/circle (whichever aiming reticle you choose). I would even consider trying a scope and not use a lens (you will need a fiber optic pin to use as an aiming point since there is no lens on which to stick a dot). Depending on the shooters eyesight, beginning at 4x you may need a clarifier - a small lens housed in the peep sight to sharpen the magnified image. Beyond magnifying the image, high magnifications will also magnify any shake or movement in the bow as seen through the sight. This can be distracting and cause an archer to shift focus from the target to a now jittery pin or dot.
> 
> For more information, search in the General Archery, Field Archery, and 3D Archery sub-forums. There are several good threads which discuss scope size, pin vs dot, and of course brand preference. As with much in this sport, a great deal of preference is subjective. Most compound archers I know simply try different combinations and settle into a system that works for them.


Thanks Praeger. So for my clarification (excuse me since I'm new to this), if I use a scope and fiber optic pin, then I do not use a lens. I always thought (incorrectly) that I would also use a lens with a fiber optic pin aiming reticle. Do I only use a lens if going with a dot or circle aiming reticle? 

If I go the route of a scope with fiber optic pin (no lens), what would be the advantage over my current Axcel Amortech Pro sight which has very good elevation and windage adjustment. I guess I would not have the clutter of 5 pins in the scope; I'd have only one to aim at. Thanks


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## nuts&bolts

auntrout said:


> Thanks Praeger. So for my clarification (excuse me since I'm new to this), if I use a scope and fiber optic pin, then I do not use a lens. I always thought (incorrectly) that I would also use a lens with a fiber optic pin aiming reticle. Do I only use a lens if going with a dot or circle aiming reticle?
> 
> If I go the route of a scope with fiber optic pin (no lens), what would be the advantage over my current Axcel Amortech Pro sight which has very good elevation and windage adjustment. I guess I would not have the clutter of 5 pins in the scope; I'd have only one to aim at. Thanks



No.

Target Sight,
meaning a scope housing that holds a lens....

you have MANY aiming system options.

1) up pin, to hold a fiber optic...in FRONT of the lens
2) drilled lens, (has a hole) and you stuff a short fiber optic through the hole
3) all kinds of stickers to put on the lens

All photos below, are a scope housing (the tube) and a lens inside, and various aiming systems.

SOLID lens, various ways to hold the fiber optic.


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## nuts&bolts

Beiter scope housing, Drilled lens, plastic pin stuffed into the hole.




Another drilled lens,
with a short fiber optic, stuffed in the hole in the lens.


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## nuts&bolts

Lens with a sticker.


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## auntrout

nuts&bolts said:


> Lens with a sticker.


Thanks Lug Nut for all those photos with the different option. With the lens and sticker option how does one get that sticker dead center on the lens? This is a more complicated decision than I thought it would be. Picking the sight seems to be the easy part and deciding on what scope and aiming reticle the tough part.


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## nuts&bolts

auntrout said:


> Thanks Lug Nut for all those photos with the different option. With the lens and sticker option how does one get that sticker dead center on the lens? This is a more complicated decision than I thought it would be. Picking the sight seems to be the easy part and deciding on what scope and aiming reticle the tough part.


When you purchase the sticker set...
a template is provided....a series of circles. You can tape the template down to your kitchen table.
Then,
carefully place your lens on top of the template, so your outer rim of the lens is centered on the template.

Then,
you DO YOUR BEST to apply the sticker,
the dot sticker
the open circle sticker.

Sooo,
here is a trick.

Just realize that you will NEVER EVER get the sticker perfectly centered.
YOU can get REALLY REALLY close.

BUT,
here is why it DOESN'T matter if you are off, just SLIGHTLY.

TAKE a SHARPIE PEN marker.

Now,
decide WHERE is the 6-o'clock low position for your lens.

PUT a NICE FAT BLACK DOT on the RIM of the LENS.

When you install your lens, into the tube, the scope housing...

install your lens so that the 6-o'clock LOW DOT (sharpie pen mark)
is always at the 6-o'clock position of your scope housing (TUBE).

Then,
your daughter can sight in,
and everything will work out just fine.


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## Praeger

auntrout said:


> Thanks Praeger. So for my clarification (excuse me since I'm new to this), if I use a scope and fiber optic pin, then I do not use a lens. I always thought (incorrectly) that I would also use a lens with a fiber optic pin aiming reticle. Do I only use a lens if going with a dot or circle aiming reticle?


You can use a fiber optic pin with or without a lens. To use a dot you need a lens to stick it on, so if you prefer a dot then you'll have to use a lens of some magnification.



auntrout said:


> If I go the route of a scope with fiber optic pin (no lens), what would be the advantage over my current Axcel Amortech Pro sight which has very good elevation and windage adjustment. I guess I would not have the clutter of 5 pins in the scope; I'd have only one to aim at. Thanks


A sight such as your Axcel Armortech is designed to be used with a multi-pin scope where you use different pins for different distances. It's windage and elevation adjustments are for fine adjustment only and would not have nearly enough travel if you only used one pin or a dot in lieu of the multi-pin conguration. To be used in field archery where targets range from 20 feet to 80 yards, you'll need about 3 inches of elevation travel. If your bow is shooting less than 230 fps, you might need a sight with 4 inches or more of vertical travel. Close shots the scope is up, far shots the scope is lower. 

Many archers I work with start with buy a used Sure Loc Challenger or Supreme sight with a scope. Bought together they can be had for well under $200. Check AT classifieds or ebay. It's a rugged sight that is easy to set up.


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## SonnyThomas

Like already noted, 2, 3 and 4X are best. Going stronger is asking for a clarifier.

Circles and dots; Transfer from sheet to lens is easily done using scotch tape, wide for the circles. Circles come in cut form in one cluster. Press over cluster of circles and lift up slowly and go with the circles as they raise. A template supplied aids putting on the lens. Placed, press to ensure they stick. Pull tape back over the circles, staying low. May have to use a tooth pick to get started. Once cluster of circles are in place, use a tooth pick to remove what circles you don't want. Dots use the same manner except dots are singular.


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## auntrout

Praeger said:


> You can use a fiber optic pin with or without a lens. To use a dot you need a lens to stick it on, so if you prefer a dot then you'll have to use a lens of some magnification.
> 
> 
> 
> A sight such as your Axcel Armortech is designed to be used with a multi-pin scope where you use different pins for different distances. It's windage and elevation adjustments are for fine adjustment only and would not have nearly enough travel if you only used one pin or a dot in lieu of the multi-pin conguration. To be used in field archery where targets range from 20 feet to 80 yards, you'll need about 3 inches of elevation travel. If your bow is shooting less than 230 fps, you might need a sight with 4 inches or more of vertical travel. Close shots the scope is up, far shots the scope is lower.
> 
> Many archers I work with start with buy a used Sure Loc Challenger or Supreme sight with a scope. Bought together they can be had for well under $200. Check AT classifieds or ebay. It's a rugged sight that is easy to set up.


Thanks Praeger. The explanation of one pin vs multiple pins and the ability to only make fine adjustments on my Armortech clears things up for me. My daughter will be shooting 18M in the indoor season and 50M during the outdoor season. I haven't thought about looking at the AT Classifieds, I'll check it out.


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## auntrout

SonnyThomas said:


> Like already noted, 2, 3 and 4X are best. Going stronger is asking for a clarifier.
> 
> Circles and dots; Transfer from sheet to lens is easily done using scotch tape, wide for the circles. Circles come in cut form in one cluster. Press over cluster of circles and lift up slowly and go with the circles as they raise. A template supplied aids putting on the lens. Placed, press to ensure they stick. Pull tape back over the circles, staying low. May have to use a tooth pick to get started. Once cluster of circles are in place, use a tooth pick to remove what circles you don't want. Dots use the same manner except dots are singular.


Thanks Sonny. Once you transfer the circles or dot, do you need to periodically replace them or once on you are good to go until you decide to change to a different circle or dot pattern/type.


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## SonnyThomas

No, they don't need replaced unless you get rough cleaning the lens. The 2 on the top left are a good 4 years old, at least that. Bottom row, I forget which one, but I got one of those lenses because the owner was going to throw it away as it has crack at the hole for the pin. Dot covers up the crack - out of sight, out of mind....


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## auntrout

SonnyThomas said:


> No, they don't need replaced unless you get rough cleaning the lens. The 2 on the top left are a good 4 years old, at least that. Bottom row, I forget which one, but I got one of those lenses because the owner was going to throw it away as it has crack at the hole for the pin. Dot covers up the crack - out of sight, out of mind....


Thanks. That's good to hear, 4+ years is more than I'd expect.


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