# Lone Wolf Climbing Stick Dual Step & Rope Modifications



## Storm27m

Step Details:
The steps started out as a thought and a sketch. Then I did some research and math (regarding weight) to see if it was feasible. My sketch turned into a rough drawing made on Microsoft Paint. I used to do computer aided drafting, but don’t anymore and I no longer have the programs. I was stuck with MS Paint! Once I had the drawings, I submitted the info to several companies to see what it would cost to have these machined for me. Even buying in quantity (over 100), the cheapest quote I got was for $25 per step. That was completely unrealistic. The next step was looking into making my own sticks from scratch, in my garage. More research online led me to the fact that I could cut aluminum with my table saw and a regular carbide tipped wood blade. Actually pricing the materials led me to the conclusion that starting from scratch was not the answer for me. The time and money involved was too much. So I started looking at LW and Leverage sticks to see how I could modify them (the Leverage sticks being strap mods only). I decided to focus on LW and my original drawing was modified to accommodate them. I actually had made two prototype drawings. The first choice had a slight rake in the steps but involved more cutting. The second step (the one I ended up making) was flat across the top and would involve less cutting on the table saw. I made a prototype out of 1” x 1/8” bar that I bought at Lowes. It cut easily with both the table saw and the router and I knew I was in business! I didn’t own the LW sticks yet, but I had pictures and realized that 1” wide bar was not wide enough. I needed 1 ¼” bar. More re-designing of drawings and I was ready to order the Aluminum. Amazon had the best prices after shipping was considered and I made the order for two 6ftx1 ¼”x3/8” bars of 6061 T6511 aluminum. About the same time, I ordered the LW sticks and the Muddy Safeline. I couldn’t wait to get started!

My aluminum showed up and I got to work on the prototype step. I cut 9 ½” pieces from the bars with a miter saw. I picked the 9 ½” width because that’s the width of the steps on my Muddy sticks. I tried making the step with the rake (step angling down towards center bar) but it was too difficult to make the cuts on the table saw. I ditched that piece and started over with the easier design. 









I scribed the design into the aluminum with a sharp center punch and cut out the basic shape of the step (only two cuts with the saw). I should mention that I used CHEAP carbide tipped blades, as suggested by my internet research. Cheap meaning that I paid $2.50 for the 10” blade on sale at Menards. It worked great. It was suggested that I used wax on the blade to aid in the cutting, but I used WD-40 sprayed on between cuts and it worked fine.









NOTE: I feel obligated to put out a warning here. Wear your safety gear when doing this. I wore safety glasses and hearing protection, but I would have much rather used a face shield instead of the glasses. The aluminum bits come off the saw at “mach oh my god” and will cut you. I had a piece actually bounce off my forehead, into the inner lens of my glasses, and into my eye. It was pretty fricken hot, but luckily it came to rest on my eyelid and only burnt that a little. After that, I tied a bandanna over the glasses to prevent it from happening again. Later in the process (after all cuts were complete), I had about 7 spots of dried blood on my face from where pieces hit me with enough force to cut.

Once I was happy that the cuts were accurate and the shape was what I wanted, I labeled that piece as my master template and cut a second step to experiment with on the router. For the cutouts on the top and bottom of the step, I used a ½” diameter flush cut bit on the router. I set the fence on the router table to allow the cuts to be about 3/16” deep into the aluminum. This aided with cuts to a consistent depth throughout the process. My original design did not incorporate the cutouts on the bottom of the step, but I opted to do it for the additional weight savings (In hind sight, I really like how it turned out). I scribed lines into the master template at ¾” apart and transferred the lines to the second piece. For consistency, the master would later be used to transfer lines to the rest of the steps as well. The marks would be the center-to-center marks for the router blade. If you’ve never used a router, they’re spinning that blade pretty dang fast. It made for nice clean cuts into the aluminum and didn’t spit out fragmentation like the table saw. Another note of warning…a router is very powerful so be careful! If the blade catches, it will rip the aluminum out of your hands with a fury. It happened to me once throughout the process and it flung the aluminum step 4ft across the garage and dented the plywood that stopped it. When the initial step was done on the router, I was extremely pleased with the result and it was back to the table saw to cut the rest of the bar into steps.









I used the master template and center punch to scribe the step shape into the rest of the bars and cut them all on the table saw. When I was done, I filed the edges a bit to remove the burrs and then transferred the router markings from the master template. I routed all the steps (20 cuts per step) and then used the same blade and manually gave all the step ends a little bit of round-over. I did the same thing with the angle at the bottom to round it out a little and make it look less harsh. These steps gave the pieces a more finished look. 









In another attempt to lighten the steps and improve the aesthetics, I decided to drill holes in the steps. I don’t have any fancy machine to do angular cutouts, so the drill was my only option. I could have used my hand drill, but that would have been a PITA especially considering that I had access to a drill press at work. Once again, I went back to my master template and figured that I could drill 4 ¼” holes into each side and maintain at least ¼” of material on all sides of the holes. I wanted to do that for safety’s sake since it seemed like that was the minimum amount of material on both the LW and Muddy steps. I marked the hole locations on the master and transferred them to the rest of the steps. I center punched each hole location and drilled a pilot hole with a 1/8” bit. I did oil the bit the keep it cool and help it cut easier. I don’t know if it was necessary or if it helped. After all the pilot holes were drilled, I switched to a ¼” bit and drilled all the holes to size. After that, I used a hand drill and chamfer bit to remove burrs and give the holes a bit of a chamfer. 









The next step was fitting the pieces to the actual LW sticks. The main attachment bolt required a ¼” hole placed approximately 5/16” from the top centerline of the step. Again, marks were made on the master and transferred to the individual steps. Once all the holes were drilled, looked at how the LW steps rested against the bottom bolt. The bolt head was 3/8” diameter and I just happened to have a 3/8” flush cut bit for my router. Using the router table and the 3/8” flush cut bit, I manually cut the “half-moon” hole into the bottom of each step. I was careful to go slow and check often to make sure I didn’t cut too deep. Once the cut got close to where it needed to be (depth wise) I cut shavings off at a time until it mounted perfectly to the stick. While this may sound rather involved, it took less than ½ hour to do all 12 steps. I did have to do a little fine tuning when I actually installed the steps due to slight variances in the hole locations on the LW sticks. (See above picture)

A quick bath in hot water and dish soap removed all the excess debris and oil residue. Once washed, I was careful not to touch them again with bare hands. I let the steps dry overnight. I have had previous positive experiences painting aluminum in the past when I primed with a self-etching primer and decided to start with that. To get good paint adhesion, aluminum needs some sort of chemical etching. There are other (maybe better?) methods to do this, but the self-etching primer was quick, cheap, and worked for me in the past. I primed each piece and then gave them two coats of Krylon flat black. The steps were looking pretty dang cool by this point and I was happy with my handy-work. I let them dry for 24 hours before I touched them again. We’ll see how this holds up over time.

















The last step was simply attaching them to the steps and basking in the glory of having my new dual-step LW sticks! It was a pretty fair amount of effort to get this done, but I think they look great and they’re actually lighter than my initial estimate. They seem to function well in the yard, but I guess only time will tell with how they’ll do in the field. I don’t think I’ll have any major issues…

Here’s a shot of the step on the tree:









Here’s a shot of how I pack my stand, steps, and backpack. Total weight of the stand (older LW Assault @8.5lbs), the four sticks, and my backpack straps is 19.98lbs (was 19.18lbs with the original sticks)


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## Maui Rhino

Sweet!!!! I never thought about cutting aluminum bar stock with my table saw and router. You just set my mind spinning on some ideas I've had percolating for a while.


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## jjlenehan

awesome idea. i will definitely be adding the rope to my sticks this year. thanks for the information and idea.


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## jace

The rope thing is brilliant, Im gonna go that route, simple as it gets, thanks


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## Hammer0419

Maui Rhino said:


> Sweet!!!! I never thought about cutting aluminum bar stock with my table saw and router. You just set my mind spinning on some ideas I've had percolating for a while.


Definately not the smartest thing to do. Metal is cut on slow machines unless you are talking high dollar cnc machines specifically ment for metal. However, the end results here are very very nice. I too like the muddy step but would never buy them due to their size. I love my Lone Wolf but they would be nicer with dual steps. Your sticks look GREAT!!


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## Storm27m

This was my first time cutting aluminum with wood tools and there were plenty of resources online that pointed to it as a viable means of cutting aluminum. Besides the metal fragments, I don't really feel that it was any more dangerous than cutting wood. As long as you're wearing adequate safety gear, that should be a moot point. I wouldn't suggest that someone unfamiliar with a table saw try it, but that goes for wood too. I think the aluminum actually had less of a tendency to have kickback or grab into the wood since the aluminum doesn't close up like wood can. Same goes for the router...again, I think I have had more issues cutting wood that I had cutting the aluminum. That's not a reason to be careless because either tool WILL bite you if you don't know what you're doing or aren't careful. Good safety practices are definitely recommended! I liken cutting the aluminum more to cutting tile on a tile saw than to cutting wood on a table saw. It's a lot slower and more attentive cutting. 


Regarding the rope thing, I had thought of so many more complicated ways of trying to make it happen and completely overlooked the easy way. I was too focused on removing the versa-button and its associated hardware to save the whole OUNCE that it weighed . I had envisioned attaching it more like how Muddy had it, which would have required drilling and possibly weakening the stick and having the additional worry of having the aluminum fray the rope (though it's a non-issue with my Muddy sticks after a season of use). Then I had the vision of simplicity and gave it a try. Much easier and cheaper than the other ideas and so simple that it's ridiculous!:thumbs_up


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## ruffme

Wow, exactly the info I've been kooking for! I'm going to take your ideas and build everything from scratch, except thee versa buttons. They are cheap enough to just order.


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## ruffme

Question for you. Where does LW mount the button? About 1/3 from the top?


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## Storm27m

A little less than 1/3. Mine are about 10 inches from the top.


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## lc12

Nicely done!
Informative, detailed ,and pics!!!
Great post.


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## Bovvhunter

Very nice work on a well thought out plan
Maybe the manufactures will pick up on the improvements and make it an available option


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## Jovush

Great work, always knew someone would come up with a simpler rope attachment. Thanks for sharing


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## Footballer

Nice!!


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## kawie23

Anyone know the diameter of the Muddy rope? I would like try to to find some bulk static rope locally.


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## ruffme

Another question for you...
how does LW keep the step from spinning? I see they run a bolt through to the V that goes against the tree, but what keeps the actual step from spinning on the bolt when you step on one side or the other?


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## yoda4x4

redruff said:


> Another question for you...
> how does LW keep the step from spinning? I see they run a bolt through to the V that goes against the tree, but what keeps the actual step from spinning on the bolt when you step on one side or the other?


redruff - if you're asking how LW prevents the step from rotating 180°... they use a system where the step rotates downward and comes in contact with the head of an allen headed bolt.

David


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## ruffme

yoda4x4 said:


> redruff - if you're asking how LW prevents the step from rotating 180°... they use a system where the step rotates downward and comes in contact with the head of an allen headed bolt.
> 
> David


Thank you, that's exactly what I was asking.
Is that what the round cutout on the bottom in the middle is for?


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## Storm27m

Yes, that is what the round cutout in the middle is for. The main bolt runs through a hole in the step, through the bar, and through the V-bracket on the back. The allen head bolt is 3/4" below the step and this bolt is what stops both the factory and my homemade step from rotating. In hind site, it may have been easier to use wider aluminum (maybe 1 3/4" instead of 1 1/4") and drill a hole in it instead of the half-circle. It would have also increased the weight of each step by a slight margin.


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## Storm27m

kawie23 said:


> Anyone know the diameter of the Muddy rope? I would like try to to find some bulk static rope locally.


I believe it is about 10mm. When I was pricing my rope, that is the size I was looking at and it was very close to the Muddy rope. I could not buy it in by the foot locally (only 50ft plus) and opted to go with the Muddy rope to avoid wasting money on rope I didn't need. My preference was for a rope that was fairly firm because I think it helps keep the knots from cinching too tight.


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## 22jdub

Storm27m said:


> I believe it is about 10mm. When I was pricing my rope, that is the size I was looking at and it was very close to the Muddy rope. I could not buy it in by the foot locally (only 50ft plus) and opted to go with the Muddy rope to avoid wasting money on rope I didn't need. My preference was for a rope that was fairly firm because I think it helps keep the knots from cinching too tight.


I made the same rope mod last night using the muddy safeline that I had gotten for free a couple years ago with my muddy harness. Works great. I made them a little longer to help overcome the larger base tree problem, need to pick up another safeline to make them for my 4th and 5th sticks. Great idea, thank you!


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## ruffme

Storm27m said:


> Yes, that is what the round cutout in the middle is for. The main bolt runs through a hole in the step, through the bar, and through the V-bracket on the back. The allen head bolt is 3/4" below the step and this bolt is what stops both the factory and my homemade step from rotating. In hind site, it may have been easier to use wider aluminum (maybe 1 3/4" instead of 1 1/4") and drill a hole in it instead of the half-circle. It would have also increased the weight of each step by a slight margin.
> 
> View attachment 1448532


Any reason..other than of course you can never rotate the step.....not to just tack weld along the bottom?


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## Storm27m

One HUGE reason...I don't know how to weld!.


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## ruffme

Storm27m said:


> One HUGE reason...I don't know how to weld!.


Other than that? Lol...


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## Storm27m

Not that I can think of? If it works for you, give it a try.


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## jbrown31

Well done! I think I may have to try this rope thing...


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## Storm27m

I decided to paint the sticks camo and tackled the job tonight. I used a crayon and paper against the bark of a tree, cut out the pattern, and then transferred it to a thicker material (file folder). Actually made two patterns, one thick and one thinner.

Started by covering the whole stick with forest green paint, then used the thick pattern for a tan layer, a.d finally the thin pattern for black.


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## Storm27m

The patterns...


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## ruffme

Love it...

well I pulled out the TIG and some aluminum tags to practice on...I can't weld either!


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## letsgobowhuntin

I just received my Lone Wolf sticks today from Cabeles. Has any ever tried great stuff foam in the ends of the lone wolf sticks? It seems like it would quiet the clinking sound if they bump each other.


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## Storm27m

I did it with my old steel sticks. You'll probably need an extension tube to get it in the middle of the stick. It worked ok, but it was messy and that crap sticks to skin like a mother ******. Wear gloves, clothes you don't care about, and do it outdoors. 

I've done it once but probably won't do it again. An easier idea may be the stealth strip or tape mods. I'll just be careful and deal with whatever noise I do make.


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## 22jdub

I wrapped mine with black athletic tape, quiets them down quite a bit.


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## yoda4x4

I put adhesive backed fleece on my sticks and while I haven't formally tested it out yet, it's got to be much quieter than without it.

David


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## Cooter2575

Man love the rope idea thanks a ton for sharing. Was gonna go the rope a cam cleat route but was shown this thread. Saved me bout $100. Awesome camo job too.

Here is my rope. I went with braided so I could put a eye loop in it and not the overhand knot.












Once again thanks:thumbs_up


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## PA B0WHUNT3R

Can someone post a video of the knot you make with the rope and how you attach the stick with the rope to the tree? Thanks, Tom


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## Storm27m

I'll do it if someone doesn't beat me to it. It's raining out right now though. Maybe sometime this weekend.


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## unicornslayer

Hmm saving this for later


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## Storm27m

Cooter2575 said:


> Man love the rope idea thanks a ton for sharing. Was gonna go the rope a cam cleat route but was shown this thread. Saved me bout $100. Awesome camo job too.
> 
> Here is my rope. I went with braided so I could put a eye loop in it and not the overhand knot.


Looks pretty good. I've never used that type of rope before. Do the half hitches stay loose enough to untie easily? They don't look too tight.


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## Cooter2575

Storm27m said:


> Looks pretty good. I've never used that type of rope before. Do the half hitches stay loose enough to untie easily? They don't look too tight.



Yes they stay loose. One hand removal. I think this picture is before I climbed on the stick. 

I am going to make a video to share on Iowawhitetail so I will post it here also. 

Storm27m I will make sure to give you the credit for the idea in my video. 


The great stuff foam has been done. From what I have seen it is a pita to get the sticks filled without have a tube on the foam can as long as the stick. Then you better have all your sticks ready because each tube is a one time use.


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## Cooter2575

Here is the short 3 minute video I made on how I do it. 

http://youtu.be/hWVRGZIoUO0

If you want to know how to do the over hand knot or put an eye in braided rope just do a youtube search for either. There are plenty of videos on those.


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## Storm27m

Cool, thanks for posting the video. It's still raining here (much needed!) and I haven't got out to do it. That's exactly how I do the knots. That braided rope looks like it makes the inner knot a little harder to untie and it looks like it has more stretch. Have you weighed it out? It looks like it would be a little lighter than climbing rope.


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## daveswpa

Awesome job, very nice


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## Cooter2575

I was having a harder time with the inner knot and didn't get it pulled as tight cause of the angle I was trying to do it from for the video. 

7.5ft of the rope I used weighs 3.875oz. The LW buckle and strap weigh 6.875oz. My finished rope is 6.5ft and the LW strap is 5.5ft. I did put another small eye on the other end of the rope for weight when trying to throw it around the tree and packing it.


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## RatherBArchery

For those who are thinking of welding the aluminum flatbars on. When you weld aluminum you take the hardness out of it!! You can get away with possibly welding 1" square tube and not heat treating it but 1/4-3/8" flatbar may fold under pressure. The bolt method would be better for this application. Just my .02


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## Storm27m

Cooter2575 said:


> I was having a harder time with the inner knot and didn't get it pulled as tight cause of the angle I was trying to do it from for the video.
> 
> 7.5ft of the rope I used weighs 3.875oz. The LW buckle and strap weigh 6.875oz. My finished rope is 6.5ft and the LW strap is 5.5ft. I did put another small eye on the other end of the rope for weight when trying to throw it around the tree and packing it.


So a little over half an ounce lighter since my ropes came in at 4.5oz each. The ropes are all between 6 and 6 1/2 ft. I expected them to be longer but that overhand knot used a surprising amount of rope.


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## Storm27m

RatherBArchery said:


> For those who are thinking of welding the aluminum flatbars on. When you weld aluminum you take the hardness out of it!! You can get away with possibly welding 1" square tube and not heat treating it but 1/4-3/8" flatbar may fold under pressure. The bolt method would be better for this application. Just my .02


Good to know! I need to learn how to weld some day.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## Jovush

Great job guys!! What's next? DIY carbon fiber sticks coming in at 1/4 the weight? Can't wait to see what you guys come up with next!!


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## PA B0WHUNT3R

As a member of this forum and many others I constantly hear how everyone would like the LW steps to be double sided. Do you think if enough people emailed them and asked for it they would do it? I just don't understand how they turn a blind eye to it. I guess once Muddy cuts into their sales enough they will change their minds.


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## Cooter2575

PA B0WHUNT3R said:


> As a member of this forum and many others I constantly hear how everyone would like the LW steps to be double sided. Do you think if enough people emailed them and asked for it they would do it? I just don't understand how they turn a blind eye to it. I guess once Muddy cuts into their sales enough they will change their minds.



May be some patent infringements, I don't know for sure. 

Would be nice but probably cheaper to make your own. I plan on making some. Nice thing is there is a place right down the road that does anodizing.


Contacting LW would help with the double step.


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## yoda4x4

Nice video. 1 question - what kind of rope did you use?

David 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## Cooter2575

It is Amsteel blue 3/8. It is a little overkill. Rated at over 19000 breaking strength and a bit pricy @ 2.70/ft. 

Shop around there are plenty of ropes out there that will work. I got mine at west marine. Ropeandknot.com as a good selection. 

Just make sure you know the working and breaking strengths.


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## INarcher711

Awesome idea! I was using UCR's for my lone wolf sticks. Very good product just can't get used to tightening them. Went out and bought muddy sticks yesterday. Wish I would have seen this thread before that. Could have saved me big bucks.


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## Cooter2575

INarcher711 said:


> Awesome idea! I was using UCR's for my lone wolf sticks. Very good product just can't get used to tightening them. Went out and bought muddy sticks yesterday. Wish I would have seen this thread before that. Could have saved me big bucks.


Return them....


Here is the knot using my UCRs. The inner knot is a little harder to loosen. You actually have to pull the stick up to release the tension, then it comes right off. This picture is after I climbed on the stick. If I was to reorder more rope I would go with the 1/4.











Here is pic of the size difference. I think the UCRs are 1/4 and that line cost 1.35/ft and has a breaking strength of 8600lbs. 8ft of working rope weighed 3.75oz. That includes the constrictor section of the UCR that I am half tempted to remove but just works too good for packing it on the stick.


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## PA B0WHUNT3R

How do you put the loop in the rope or where can you buy it with a loop already in it?


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## Cooter2575

I don't know if this link will work, but here is how I did it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FU2KovbHr0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

If the link doesn't work go to YouTube and search "eye loop single braid rope" that should get you the videos to show you how. Some places that sell rope will do it but it will cost. 

The over hand knot will work just as good also.


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## PA B0WHUNT3R

Cooter2575 said:


> I don't know if this link will work, but here is how I did it.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FU2KovbHr0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> If the link doesn't work go to YouTube and search "eye loop single braid rope" that should get you the videos to show you how. Some places that sell rope will do it but it will cost.
> 
> The over hand knot will work just as good also.


Ok, thanks! How much weight should a rope be rated for? Is their a specific rope I should look at? Could you post a link as an example? Thanks!


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## Cooter2575

I don't know what to tell you for the weight rating minimum. If you go with the Amsteel the lowest rating is 1600lb, but that rope diameter would be very small 7/64". I am no rope expert so you may want to check other sources. Try rock climbing or arbor forums for information from the experts. 

You could also PM the guy on here that makes UCRs he may point you in a better direction.


Here is where I got mine from I got the 3/8" but to do over I would get the 1/4".
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/w...&subdeptNum=50130&classNum=50132#.UDmObmt5mK0 

AT might not let that link work since they are not a sponcer so you may have to copy and paste it.


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## Cooter2575

Or copying and pasting won't work either. 

Google Amsteel Blue and select the west marine Website.


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## PA B0WHUNT3R

ok thanks


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## PA B0WHUNT3R

How would you put a loop in the type of rope muddy uses for their sticks? Would it be easier to just tie a loop into it with a knot or split the strands like in the video?


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## Cooter2575

PA B0WHUNT3R said:


> How would you put a loop in the type of rope muddy uses for their sticks? Would it be easier to just tie a loop into it with a knot or split the strands like in the video?


No with the muddy style rope you could not split the strands. It has a core it is not like the one in the video.

Easiest would be this knot.


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## Cooter2575

I was just PM that you can get regular Amsteel for half the price of Amsteel blue. 

Man I got ripped off


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## PA B0WHUNT3R

ok thank you!


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## EMSBMR

PA B0WHUNT3R said:


> How do you put the loop in the rope or where can you buy it with a loop already in it?


You have to do it yourself. The technique is called back splicing.


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## Storm27m

I used the knot shown in cooters image. Just a simple overhand knot. Melt the end of any cut you make in the rope to prevent fraying.


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## born2kill

http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlin...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
http://www.animatedknots.com/fig8fo...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Been watching this thread and like the ideas. Here's a few options instead of splicing loop.


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## Storm27m

I had a request for a few pictures...here's how I store the rope. They still stack fine, just gotta make sure the knot is out of the way.


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## PJ_WI

Great paint.

I love my loan wolf sticks but alot of times I wanted two steps at the top for safety getting in and out of the tree stand.

To fix this I purchased a few steps and hardware from loan wolf when he used to assemble in his garage in Cudahy, WI.
I simply added one extra step on the top of my 4th stick. It's only a 4-5" lower so I can still fold them in and didn't add much weight. I stack the 4 sticks high on the stand and think the only draw back is that this need stick needs to be on top. I also put an extra stop by the middle step but don't use it very often.

I'm going to try the rope on a few sticks this year, should make me a little quieter.

Has anyone foamed the inside of their sticks? Did it make any difference? I don't care how carefull I am I always smack the steps together at least one.


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## twyatt

I foamed the inside of my Summit climber and it made such a mess, and helped so little, that I don't plan on ever using that mess again, especially in the kitchen! Took acetone to get that stuff off the kitchen floor once it dried, and I thought my wife was going to kill me. 

On my LW sticks, I bought the Stealth Strips and put them on all my sticks. Made a HUGE improvement in noise. Highly recommend those, great product.


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## PJ_WI

I have seven sticks and added a second step to two of them.


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## bowhunter819

Man that looks sweet!


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## letsgobowhuntin

Ttt


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## mtsrunner

PA B0WHUNT3R said:


> Ok, thanks! How much weight should a rope be rated for? Is their a specific rope I should look at? Could you post a link as an example? Thanks!


A safe working load is 10% of breaking strength. In the example above with the Amsteel rope rated at 19,000lbs, it would have a safe working load of 1900 lbs, BEFORE you tied the overhand knot, which will reduce that rating. How much? They don't tell you that. Overkill is never a terrible idea when it comes to your safety in a tree, imho. 

Awesome thread, btw.


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## Cooter2575

mtsrunner said:


> A safe working load is 10% of breaking strength. In the example above with the Amsteel rope rated at 19,000lbs, it would have a safe working load of 1900 lbs, BEFORE you tied the overhand knot, which will reduce that rating. How much? They don't tell you that. Overkill is never a terrible idea when it comes to your safety in a tree, imho.
> 
> Awesome thread, btw.



With the eye splice in the Amsteel the rating from the knot does not go down, and is impossible to come apart. That is why I like the braided over the other style rope.

I agree with over kill in the tree.


----------



## Sivart

subscribed


----------



## Sivart

What is the difference between amsteel and amsteel blue? The original is cheaper? Less quality?


----------



## Cooter2575

Sivart said:


> What is the difference between amsteel and amsteel blue? The original is cheaper? Less quality?


It is what they are made of, the blue is made of Dyneema. 

They are both good quality. The Blue has stronger weight/strength ratio. It is lighter but stronger and that is what you are paying extra for.


----------



## mtsrunner

*Sewn Loop instead of overhand knot*

I had a couple of Lone Wolf rope sections from their old harnesses that came with the stands. They work perfectly in this application. They have a sewn loop which goes right over the Versa Button. The diameter of this (and the Muddy rope on their climbing sticks) appears to be right at 9mm (which is in between 5/16" and 3/8"). 
I think this gives the perfect balance of strength, lightweight and bulk. 

I tried using some 10mm static climbing rope that I use to make replacements for the Tree Saddle tree tether, but I found it to be too bulky when trying to slip the rope under the loop and Versa Button. 
I also tried to find some really strong 9mm static rope in a good camo color, but didn't really come up with anything better than the OP's idea of the Muddy lifeline. 

Be careful with Dyneema (also known as Spectra, Titan Cord or Kevlar) in situations where the rope can rub against itself. It is SO strong and the fibers are so tough, that they can actually cause the rope to cut itself. 

Here is a pic of my new, lightweight, ultra-quiet LW attachment system. 

Much Love to the OP for an awesome, simple idea!


----------



## Cooter2575

mtsrunner said:


> Be careful with Dyneema (also known as Spectra, Titan Cord or Kevlar) in situations where the rope can rub against itself. It is SO strong and the fibers are so tough, that they can actually cause the rope to cut itself.



Do you think it will do that in this application? I have never heard of that before.


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> Do you think it will do that in this application? I have never heard of that before.


I don't think it would be a big deal because the friction wouldn't be sudden (like rapelling) and because the rope won't always be stressed in the same spot (because of different diameter trees). However, I am not an expert. 

I found the link to the article that I referred to. This is why I think nylon core and nylon sheath seem to be the safest bet for things that are tied in knots and used in trees.
Here's the link:
http://www.mountaineers.org/seattle/climbing/Reference/Cordelette.html


----------



## ruffme

I would think a kernmantle type rope would be best in this situation.

That's what I'm going to go with when I get around to this


----------



## droppixel

Really like this idea. I've been looking LW sticks for a while. Have put some thought into the Muddys because I like the rope system, but don't want to carry 5 sticks to equal the 4 I would plan to run with the LW. Having something like this as a quick and quite attachment would be perfect. Don't know that I would go double steps on all of them, but I like the idea that the guys have about adding a step to 1 or 2 of the top sticks.


----------



## mtsrunner

droppixel said:


> Really like this idea. I've been looking LW sticks for a while. Have put some thought into the Muddys because I like the rope system, but don't want to carry 5 sticks to equal the 4 I would plan to run with the LW. Having something like this as a quick and quite attachment would be perfect. Don't know that I would go double steps on all of them, but I like the idea that the guys have about adding a step to 1 or 2 of the top sticks.


I have a couple of Muddy steps, but I like the LW sticks MUCH better, especially now that I have added the awesome rope attachment system. I will say that the Muddy Cam/rope system is still easier to attach. My Muddy steps make a creaking noise when I try to use them as a platform for my Tree Saddle.


----------



## twyatt

So 9mm static rope seems to be the best, or the Amsteel/Amsteel blue? What's the consensus here?
I tried finding 9mm static rope as well, and had no luck. I like the Muddy safeline rope, I was just trying to find the exact same rope but slightly longer than Muddy's rope. Anyone got any suggestions on where you can buy the exact rope Muddy uses, but find it sold by the foot?


----------



## droppixel

twyatt said:


> So 9mm static rope seems to be the best, or the Amsteel/Amsteel blue? What's the consensus here?
> I tried finding 9mm static rope as well, and had no luck. I like the Muddy safeline rope, I was just trying to find the exact same rope but slightly longer than Muddy's rope. Anyone got any suggestions on where you can buy the exact rope Muddy uses, but find it sold by the foot?


There are a few places out there that I have looked when thinking about making some rope style treestraps (HSS style) and own lifelines. I forget where they were, but good climbing rope with the proper ratings for tensile strength can get kinda pricey.


----------



## twyatt

I've found 11mm black static rope sold by the foot for $1.18/ft right down the street from my house, but it sounds like 11mm may be too big/thick. Can't find any 9mm that's sold by the foot.


----------



## mtsrunner

twyatt said:


> I've found 11mm black static rope sold by the foot for $1.18/ft right down the street from my house, but it sounds like 11mm may be too big/thick. Can't find any 9mm that's sold by the foot.


Yes, 11mm is definitely too thick. I use 11mm to make lineman's belts, lifelines and Tree Saddle replacement tethers, so I have a ton of it laying around. Won't work.
I have looked around some websites that I have ordered rope supplies from, but haven't had much luck. I have found some 3/8" static (about 9.52mm). That would probably be fine, but haven't found it by the foot.


----------



## twyatt

So I guess Muddy's rope is the only way to go then. Sounds like it'll be fine, I was just hoping I could add an extra foot or so to the final length for larger trees.


----------



## mtsrunner

twyatt said:


> So I guess Muddy's rope is the only way to go then. Sounds like it'll be fine, I was just hoping I could add an extra foot or so to the final length for larger trees.


You don't have to cut that 30' Muddy rope into 4 equal lengths. You might want to make them 8.5', 8', 7', 6.5'. Most trees taper, so you could just use the longer ones at the base of the tree and go shorter as you go up. 

The other thought would be make 3 long sections and use smaller diameter rope that you might have laying around for the 'first' stick. I am actually using 8mm prusik cord for my first stick. It is still rated for a working load limit of around 400 lbs. If it were to break and the stick slipped, it wouldn't be catastrophic because I would only be about 4 feet off the ground.


----------



## Cooter2575

Any fall can be bad. Wouldn't take the chance myself.


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> Any fall can be bad. Wouldn't take the chance myself.


I agree any fall is bad. The rope is still rated higher than the hardware on most treestands. I also always use a harness (or Tree Saddle/ Guido's Web) and I am always connected. I should have chosen my words more carefully, though. As I read my post, it sounds stupid.


----------



## yoda4x4

mtsrunner said:


> Yes, 11mm is definitely too thick. I use 11mm to make lineman's belts, lifelines and Tree Saddle replacement tethers, so I have a ton of it laying around. Won't work.
> I have looked around some websites that I have ordered rope supplies from, but haven't had much luck. I have found some 3/8" static (about 9.52mm). That would probably be fine, but haven't found it by the foot.


The site that I bought my rope for my linesman rope is called rocknrescue.com. They'll sell all of their ropes by the foot. I suggest looking in their specials section as they sell short sections cheaper, which are perfect for us. They've got great customer service and super fast shipping.

David


----------



## Storm27m

mtsrunner said:


> You don't have to cut that 30' Muddy rope into 4 equal lengths. You might want to make them 8.5', 8', 7', 6.5'. Most trees taper, so you could just use the longer ones at the base of the tree and go shorter as you go up.
> 
> The other thought would be make 3 long sections and use smaller diameter rope that you might have laying around for the 'first' stick. I am actually using 8mm prusik cord for my first stick. It is still rated for a working load limit of around 400 lbs. If it were to break and the stick slipped, it wouldn't be catastrophic because I would only be about 4 feet off the ground.


That's a pretty decent idea, too bad mine are already cut. Oh well, then I would have had to keep track of which ones were longer.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## oldschoolcj5

awesome project and super sweet looking set of sticks. thanks for the detailed write-up.

what is the bid at currently, cause I know somebody has surely pm'd ya with a "please sell them to me"?


----------



## twyatt

yoda4x4 said:


> The site that I bought my rope for my linesman rope is called rocknrescue.com. They'll sell all of their ropes by the foot. I suggest looking in their specials section as they sell short sections cheaper, which are perfect for us. They've got great customer service and super fast shipping.
> 
> David


David,

Is 9mm static what I'm looking for? I don't see that on their site


----------



## mtsrunner

twyatt said:


> David,
> 
> Is 9mm static what I'm looking for? I don't see that on their site


David might have a better answer for you, since he has ordered from those guys, but I looked at their website and they have 3/8" static. Their site reads 3/8" (10mm), so I would check with them because 3/8" is actually 9.52mm, which would work just fine. It has a min break strength of 5396 lbs, which equates to a working load limit of 539 lbs. Plenty for this application. 
Here is the link, they have black and OD Green, either would be good. 
http://rocknrescue.com/acatalog/Sterling-3-8-Static-Colors.html


----------



## yoda4x4

mtsrunner said:


> David might have a better answer for you, since he has ordered from those guys, but I looked at their website and they have 3/8" static. Their site reads 3/8" (10mm), so I would check with them because 3/8" is actually 9.52mm, which would work just fine. It has a min break strength of 5396 lbs, which equates to a working load limit of 539 lbs. Plenty for this application.
> Here is the link, they have black and OD Green, either would be good.
> http://rocknrescue.com/acatalog/Sterling-3-8-Static-Colors.html


I'm no expert but if ir were ne I'd go with the 3/8" static line. You could look at the accessory chords and they have smaller lines.

David 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## twyatt

I'm just looking for the same exact thing as the Muddy rope, but about 35' long.


----------



## JPizzle

I wish I would have seen this two weeks ago. The West Marines in our town are all closing and opening in one big store centralized. They had all of the cut by foot rope for 75% off. I stopped in today and they are all sold out. Would have been a sweet deal.


----------



## Storm27m

oldschoolcj5 said:


> awesome project and super sweet looking set of sticks. thanks for the detailed write-up.
> 
> what is the bid at currently, cause I know somebody has surely pm'd ya with a "please sell them to me"?


Hahaha...I've had a few offers but I'm out of aluminum and not buying more. You guys are on your own. My original idea used the table saw only, not as nice of a finish. You can still make steps with just a table saw and drill.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## mtsrunner

If enough people are interested, I will order some bulk 9 mm static line and cut them to length for people. I have a good rope cutter. I will check around next week for a decent deal on bulk.


----------



## BAMBI KILER

mtsrunner,

pm sent


----------



## Cooter2575

mtsrunner said:


> I don't think it would be a big deal because the friction wouldn't be sudden (like rapelling) and because the rope won't always be stressed in the same spot (because of different diameter trees). However, I am not an expert.
> 
> I found the link to the article that I referred to. This is why I think nylon core and nylon sheath seem to be the safest bet for things that are tied in knots and used in trees.
> Here's the link:
> http://www.mountaineers.org/seattle/climbing/Reference/Cordelette.html


Sorry to bring this back up. If Amsteel cuts it's self why is it used in winch applications? It is wound very tightly over it self. Why does it not cut its self? I guess I still don't understand why it is not good for this application.


----------



## Maui Rhino

Went to order some prussic line from rocknrescue just now. Was very disappointed to find out that they wanted $48 to ship $15 worth of cord via USPS ground. That is a ridiculous shipping price for two cords 22" and 26" long, that would fit in a small flat rate box. :angry:


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## twyatt

I was going to get some rope from them too the other day, but when I saw what shipping was going to cost, I cancelled my order.


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## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> Sorry to bring this back up. If Amsteel cuts it's self why is it used in winch applications? It is wound very tightly over it self. Why does it not cut its self? I guess I still don't understand why it is not good for this application.


I have no idea. That article seemed to be credible, but the winch thing makes me wonder. I would imagine that standing on a LW stick would be much less pressure than winching a vehicle.


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## yoda4x4

twyatt said:


> I was going to get some rope from them too the other day, but when I saw what shipping was going to cost, I cancelled my order.


I'd suggest calling them up and seeing if they can do better on the shipping charges.

David 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## bhawk6

Magnificent...I will be making these when I get back from Afghanistan. I will be starting completely from scratch, so I have to ask. Does the allen-head bolt, that prevents the step from rotating 180, go completely through the tubing like the main step and tree-v bolt. Or does it have a rivnut on the inside?


----------



## yoda4x4

bhawk6 said:


> Magnificent...I will be making these when I get back from Afghanistan. I will be starting completely from scratch, so I have to ask. Does the allen-head bolt, that prevents the step from rotating 180, go completely through the tubing like the main step and tree-v bolt. Or does it have a rivnut on the inside?


The LW sticks have 2 bolts that that are used for each step. There's 1 bolt that goes thru the step, tubing, and V-bracket; the middle step doesn't have a V-bracket. Then there's the rounded allen head bolt that sits below to prevent the step from rotating all the way around; it goes thru the tubing as well.

On a side note, thank you for your service and be safe over there.

David


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## bhawk6

Thank you...I was not sure, and only wondering b/c a rivnut would work but is costly, also I figured a second bolt through in such a small space on 1" tubing would weaken. But if LW builds them this way then I will too. Thanks for everything, and as far as staying safe...It is a daily goal.

Justin


----------



## PJ_WI

I'm not sure what aluminum LW uses but if you purchase typical square aluminum tubing from a hardware store I don't believe it would be strong enough.

My family and I also thank you for your service.


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## bhawk6

One thing I have access too is a machine shop and vast amounts of experience....this is a big plus. Thanks for the warning though. My goals when I get back are to hunt, build a few of these, hunt, plan a wedding, hunt, and get scolded like a child by my fiancee for hunting too much!


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## born2kill

http://www.karstsports.com/newenkmi38st1.html?utm_source=bingshopping&utm_medium=cse

Think this rope would work? $.85 a foot free shipping over $40


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## Storm27m

bhawk6 said:


> One thing I have access too is a machine shop and vast amounts of experience....this is a big plus. Thanks for the warning though. My goals when I get back are to hunt, build a few of these, hunt, plan a wedding, hunt, and get scolded like a child by my fiancee for hunting too much!


I'm getting a little off topic but this is my thread so I can do what I want! You out of FOB Salerno? At any rate, I appreciate what you guys do. I haven't been on one of your birds myself but you guys (well...MEDEVAC in general) have played a part in saving many friends. How long you have left over there?


----------



## Storm27m

born2kill said:


> http://www.karstsports.com/newenkmi38st1.html?utm_source=bingshopping&utm_medium=cse
> 
> Think this rope would work? $.85 a foot free shipping over $40


I think that would work just fine...


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## Cooter2575

I contacted Samsung rope and this is what they responded. Sorry if I led anyone astray. 
Josh,

*


> Thanks for your interest in Samson rope.* Amsteel is actually very resistant to cutting.* It is however, very slippery.* It’s not always the best choice for holding knots since they tend to slip out.*
> 
> *
> 
> I* would recommend using a climbing type line for this application.* Our “Static” line would be a good choice.
> 
> http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?rope=114
> 
> *


----------



## mtsrunner

born2kill said:


> http://www.karstsports.com/newenkmi38st1.html?utm_source=bingshopping&utm_medium=cse
> 
> Think this rope would work? $.85 a foot free shipping over $40


That is the best deal I have seen. That would be PLENTY strong enough, 600 lb working load limit. I might order some of that in Olive Green.


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> I contacted Samsung rope and this is what they responded. Sorry if I led anyone astray.
> Josh,
> 
> *


Thanks for the update. I bet it would still be fine. Haven't you already tried it?


----------



## Cooter2575

mtsrunner said:


> Thanks for the update. I bet it would still be fine. Haven't you already tried it?


Yes. 

I'm going to do some more testing before I get 20ft up a tree with it, that's for sure.


----------



## Thansen

very nice work here on the whole project


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> Here is the short 3 minute video I made on how I do it.
> 
> http://youtu.be/hWVRGZIoUO0
> 
> If you want to know how to do the over hand knot or put an eye in braided rope just do a youtube search for either. There are plenty of videos on those.


Now that I have seen your video and done more research on Dyneema (Amsteel), I think that might be the best way to go. I think I am going to buy some and put a very small eye loop in it to keep the whole deal very low profile. If you measure correctly and put another eye loop in the tag end, you could arrange it so that it wraps around the stick and loops back to the versa button with no slack or slop while transporting. 
I see that even their 1/4" is rated at 7400lbs.


----------



## bhawk6

Storm27m said:


> I'm getting a little off topic but this is my thread so I can do what I want! You out of FOB Salerno? At any rate, I appreciate what you guys do. I haven't been on one of your birds myself but you guys (well...MEDEVAC in general) have played a part in saving many friends. How long you have left over there?


PM sent


----------



## 22jdub

PM Sent!



mtsrunner said:


> If enough people are interested, I will order some bulk 9 mm static line and cut them to length for people. I have a good rope cutter. I will check around next week for a decent deal on bulk.


----------



## Cooter2575

mtsrunner said:


> Now that I have seen your video and done more research on Dyneema (Amsteel), I think that might be the best way to go. I think I am going to buy some and put a very small eye loop in it to keep the whole deal very low profile. If you measure correctly and put another eye loop in the tag end, you could arrange it so that it wraps around the stick and loops back to the versa button with no slack or slop while transporting.
> I see that even their 1/4" is rated at 7400lbs.


I order 40ft of 5/16(8mm) and plan to do the same with the loops. I have to find a different use for the 3/8 I already made.


----------



## BAMBI KILER

I have recently purchased the 3/8 ths rope from karsports. It is a larger diameter than the muddy rope and a little stiffer. It will work but i am still looking for something like the muddy rope


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## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> I order 40ft of 5/16(8mm) and plan to do the same with the loops. I have to find a different use for the 3/8 I already made.


Why did you decide to go with the 5/16 instead of the 1/4"?


----------



## Cooter2575

mtsrunner said:


> Why did you decide to go with the 5/16 instead of the 1/4"?


Easier to work with as far a splicing goes is my thinking. 

Plus it will have more weight when trying to throw it around the tree. Lightest is not always best when it comes to that.


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> Easier to work with as far a splicing goes is my thinking.
> 
> Plus it will have more weight when trying to throw it around the tree. Lightest is not always best when it comes to that.


Gotcha. I ordered the 30' of the 1/4" and an aluminum fid kit. I hope I can get it spliced to my satisfaction. My eyes and hands aren't as good as they used to be!


----------



## jacobmhd

Can anyone tell me the dimensions and thickness of the square aluminum tubing of the steps? From the pictures, I am guessing the tubing is 1" sqaure aluminum tubing. How thick is the wall of the tubing? 1/16th or 1/8th? Thanks for the help!!


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## Storm27m

Looks to be about 1/8"


----------



## iluvgear1

Just be aware........many hi tec synthetic ropes, including Dyneema, are subject to damage from abrasion and UV light. Many climbers consider these items consumables.


----------



## mtsrunner

iluvgear1 said:


> Just be aware........many hi tec synthetic ropes, including Dyneema, are subject to damage from abrasion and UV light. Many climbers consider these items consumables.


Thanks. I thought the same thing and made a similar comment near the bottom of page 4 of this thread. Then I did some more research on Dyneema and Coot emailed Samson and I now actually think Dyneema is almost perfect for this application. 
I had always considered Dyneema to be the same as Aramid-type ropes, but it is actually better because it is not nearly as likely to cut itself and is also UB resistant. 
It is easy to make an eye loop with the braided type, like used here, so you don't have to knot it (which is the one weakness). 
Hope that helps. 
Of course, I am making this mod at my own risk and don't recommend it.


----------



## Cooter2575

Amsteel Blue says it is UV "stabilized" while Amsteel is not. I personally don't leave my stands up for long periods.

Amsteel also says it resist flex-fatigue and highly abrasion resistan.

I am not recomending this rope just posting my findings.


----------



## yoda4x4

I don't know about you guys, but there's no way in heck I'd consider leaving my LW sticks up permanently... they cost way too much. If I was going to do that, I'd go with a set of cheap $40 sticks.

David


----------



## mtsrunner

I will probably end up with the Amsteel Blue. 
Like Cooter2575 stated, you need to make your own choice when it comes to your safety in a tree. 

I will say that the Lone Wolf sticks are not 'foolproof' as they come standard. 
I was climbing one afternoon after hunting in a different tree that morning. My cam buckle straps were still damp (and dirty and mossy, I soon discovered). As I placed my first step, tightened the strap and stepped on to the first step, the strap slid through the buckle and loosened to the point that I had to quickly step off back on to solid ground. 
I inspected the buckle and found that the wet, mossy bark from the tree that morning had worked its way in to the 'teeth' of the cam buckle and rendered it useless as a friction stopper. 
Even after cleaning and drying, that strap would not hold to my satisfaction. 
Ever since then, I carry a spare set of straps for wet conditions. 

I have also searched for a better way to attach the sticks to the tree. 

The UCRs seem to be a goo choice, but I don't like the idea of having to milk that line. I think this thread has solved my problems. 

Again, everyone needs to make their own decisions about this stuff


----------



## shinobi3

TTT 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cooter2575

Got my new ropes done. 

Here is a pic how I'm packing them on the stick.










The four ropes weigh 15oz and the buckles weigh 1LB 12oz.(ropes are 7ft straps are 5.5ft) So I think it will be a wash when I add the double step. I am thinking just making the middle step double. because that is where I stand when hanging the next stick and stand. Thoughts on that????


----------



## mtsrunner

Awesome. My Amsteel rope should be delivered on Monday. I am going to try to make my eye loops and lengths so that they will pack up with both loops reaching the versa button. 

Is that the 5/16" on the sticks in that picture?

As far as the double step, I would definitely go with just the middle step as a double. 

If you want to make some coin, I might buy a few double steps as long as you're making them.


----------



## Cooter2575

Yes that is the 5/16" cut @ 10' with 10" of bury and 6.5" for the loop. I wanted to go to the button but didn't have enough rope to do all. I really didn't want to go any less with the bury. They recommend 50x the diameter of the rope. With it hooked on the step it tightens up the rope nicely. Will be different once I put the new steps on.

As far as the steps I most like won't get to them till after season. Youth starts next weekend here and that will take up my free time. But if I find the time I'll keep you posted.


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> Yes that is the 5/16" cut @ 10' with 10" of bury and 6.5" for the loop. I wanted to go to the button but didn't have enough rope to do all. I really didn't want to go any less with the bury. They recommend 50x the diameter of the rope. With it hooked on the step it tightens up the rope nicely. Will be different once I put the new steps on.
> 
> As far as the steps I most like won't get to them till after season. Youth starts next weekend here and that will take up my free time. But if I find the time I'll keep you posted.


OK, thanks for the info.


----------



## wewarev1

Thought I'd throw out another idea as an alternative for the replacement rope on the Lone Wolf Sticks.

If you have purchased some Cranford Rope Steps in the past and took the rope off the steps to make a platform (as discussed on the big tree saddle thread), you can use those ropes as a replacement on the Lone Wolf Sticks. Works great and save you a little coin too! 

Just as long as you didn't cut the permanent loop that attaches to the Cranford Step there shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## mtsrunner

wewarev1 said:


> Thought I'd throw out another idea as an alternative for the replacement rope on the Lone Wolf Sticks.
> 
> If you have purchased some Cranford Rope Steps in the past and took the rope off the steps to make a platform (as discussed on the big tree saddle thread), you can use those ropes as a replacement on the Lone Wolf Sticks. Works great and save you a little coin too!
> 
> Just as long as you didn't cut the permanent loop that attaches to the Cranford Step there shouldn't be a problem.


There is a YouTube video showing a guy that did that exact thing (is that you?). If you happen to have the Cranford rope steps laying around that would be nice, but not cost effective to go buy them just to take the rope off of them.


----------



## mnormand

mtsrunner said:


> There is a YouTube video showing a guy that did that exact thing (is that you?). If you happen to have the Cranford rope steps laying around that would be nice, but not cost effective to go buy them just to take the rope off of them.


mtsrunner, I saw you just subscribed to my youtube channel the other day, that was me that posted the rope mod.

Here's the rope I used...
http://www.shopatron.com/products/c...cf9541ed73fe3c77acc3&ckey=107125.107057.0.0.0

I don't remember how long the LW sticks been out, but I made that mod probably the first year. I hated all the (potential) clanking those buckles produced, but loved the sticks right away. I wanted total quietness in the dark morning. My camp buddies had never seen anything like that, I remembered climbing a tree at camp and they thought I was nuts, LOL.
I almost never leave my sticks out more than maybe a few nights during a season. 

This video shows putting a rope LW stick on in about 30seconds? I never found only the three steps to be a hindrance. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k09cm-I7CD4


----------



## mtsrunner

mnormand said:


> mtsrunner, I saw you just subscribed to my youtube channel the other day, that was me that posted the rope mod.
> 
> Here's the rope I used...
> http://www.shopatron.com/products/c...cf9541ed73fe3c77acc3&ckey=107125.107057.0.0.0
> 
> I don't remember how long the LW sticks been out, but I made that mod probably the first year. I hated all the (potential) clanking those buckles produced, but loved the sticks right away. I wanted total quietness in the dark morning. My camp buddies had never seen anything like that, I remembered climbing a tree at camp and they thought I was nuts, LOL.
> I almost never leave my sticks out more than maybe a few nights during a season.
> 
> This video shows putting a rope LW stick on in about 30seconds? I never found only the three steps to be a hindrance.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k09cm-I7CD4


Brilliant! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## kcager

Man, this an engeeirning marvel...wish i could my LW sticks to you for a complete modification. Again, this is awesome.


----------



## ruffme

Alright here is my crack at making these from scratch..here is my prototype.


----------



## shinobi3

Nice 


Sent from ?


----------



## Storm27m

redruff said:


> Alright here is my crack at making these from scratch..here is my prototype.


Looks cool, what did you use for the angled cutouts? You were going to weld them on right?


----------



## mtsrunner

I finished my new system with Amsteel 1/4" braided bull line last night. It was my first foray into splicing, so it took me a long time, but I am happy with the results. 
Total weight of 4 sticks with 7 ft of usable rope/stick is now 9 # 11 oz. 
For those who have inquired, I don't think I am going to sell these like I do the Tree Saddle and Guido's Web rope and webbing rigs. Too much time and I am not as good with the eye-splicing as I am with the knot tying. 
















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## reddogge

Would a taut line hitch work for the running end of the line? That way there would be a loop already formed and you just slip it over the round disc and pull tight. They do hold well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jkN3K5G8eE


----------



## yoda4x4

Question for you all... what is the minimum strength requirement you are looking for? Minimum breaking strength? I've found a spool of 100 ft of 7mm (.276") accessory chord on Ebay with a tensile strength of 2300 lbs that's pretty inexpensive. Is this enough or do I need something stronger?

David


----------



## mtsrunner

yoda4x4 said:


> Question for you all... what is the minimum strength requirement you are looking for? Minimum breaking strength? I've found a spool of 100 ft of 7mm (.276") accessory chord on Ebay with a tensile strength of 2300 lbs that's pretty inexpensive. Is this enough or do I need something stronger?
> 
> David


Definitely stronger. Generally speaking, working load limit (WLL) is 10% of tensile strength. So, in your example the WLL would only be 230 lbs. Also take under consideration that tying a knot in a rope will usually reduce the tensile strength by 10-40%, depending on what type of rope it is. Static kernmantle nylon rope only loses 10% when tied. Some of the newer synthetic fiber ropes like Kevlar and Spectra are closer to 40% reduction. 
The 7/16" Bluewater Assault line that I use for my Tree Saddle and Guido's Web tree hook-up rigs starts with a tensile strength of 7679 lbf. I tie a figure 8 follow thorough, which will reduce the strength to about 6900 lbf. Then take 10% of that and you get a safe WLL of about 690 lbs. 
Hope that helps. 


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## LoessHillsArche

Would climbing rope like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-3-8-x-1...640?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23223b2460


----------



## mtsrunner

LoessHillsArche said:


> Would climbing rope like this work?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-3-8-x-1...640?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23223b2460


Yes, that would be good. 



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## Ancient Archer

As for using a carbide blade in a table saw, no problem as long as you take your time and wear face/body protection against flying aluminum chips, or from possibly poorly brazed carbide teeth.

As a helpful suggestion to those who might want to make up a set of steps, you might consider clamping the corresponding edges of the aluminum bars against each other to a board. Then use a drill press to drill the holes with the drill bit centered on the common edge of the two pieces. Then separate the two pieces and you have semi-circular holes. I think this would be easier, quicker & safer than using a router.


----------



## Storm27m

Ancient Archer said:


> As for using a carbide blade in a table saw, no problem as long as you take your time and wear face/body protection against flying aluminum chips, or from possibly poorly brazed carbide teeth.
> 
> As a helpful suggestion to those who might want to make up a set of steps, you might consider clamping the corresponding edges of the aluminum bars against each other to a board. Then use a drill press to drill the holes with the drill bit centered on the common edge of the two pieces. Then separate the two pieces and you have semi-circular holes. I think this would be easier, quicker & safer than using a router.


Now dang it...why didn't I think of that! The router worked well but that probably would have been faster.

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## Ancient Archer

Storm27m said:


> Now dang it...why didn't I think of that! The router worked well but that probably would have been faster.
> *Because you aren't as old as I am! LOL *


----------



## mtsrunner

I have found a decent deal on some 3/8" (9.5 mm) static line. The catch is, the minimum buy is 200'. 
I will buy it and cut it to your specified lengths if enough people are interested. 

Here is the link to what I am looking at:
http://www.sherrilltree.com/Professional-Gear/Static-Kernmantle_2/HTP-SnakeBite-Rope

I would just charge what it costs me per foot and then add actual shipping. 
Let me know...



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## shinobi3

I'm in 


Sent from ?


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## yoda4x4

Would 7/16" static rope be too big/thick to use?

David


----------



## mtsrunner

yoda4x4 said:


> Would 7/16" static rope be too big/thick to use?
> 
> David


David,
7/16" is definitely too big. Here is a pic of 7/16" Bluewater Assaultline on one of my sticks. After looping around the versa button, there is no room left to run the tag end behind the loop. 









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## yoda4x4

mtsrunner said:


> David,
> 7/16" is definitely too big. Here is a pic of 7/16" Bluewater Assaultline on one of my sticks. After looping around the versa button, there is no room left to run the tag end behind the loop.
> View attachment 1471777
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmmm... this is like a delicate balance between selecting a rope thick enough for strength requirements, and one that's not too thick because of fitment issues. So what would be the thickest material that could be used?

David


----------



## mtsrunner

yoda4x4 said:


> Hmmm... this is like a delicate balance between selecting a rope thick enough for strength requirements, and one that's not too thick because of fitment issues. So what would be the thickest material that could be used?
> 
> David


David,
I agree. I want to be as safe as possible. 
Here is a picture of some 10.5 mm static line. Still too big. 







The 3/8" that I am ordering should be just about perfect. 
As far as total strength, it has a tensile strength of 5891 lbf. The cam belt that you are replacing has a tensile strength of 3200 lbf. It is not quite as simple as comparing those two numbers (there is some physics involved), but you get the idea. 
I am going to try to clarify the diameter of the Sterling HTP snakebite rope before I order. The website states 3/8" AND 10 mm in the description. 3/8" is actually closer to 9.5 mm than 10. If it is 10, it might still be too thick for our application. 
More to come...



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## mtsrunner

It looks like the Muddy rope is only 9mm. I am going to see if Sherrill tree will send me a small sample of the HTP Snakebite to see if it is too big. 









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## My2Sons

I would be interested in getting in on this. Thanks.



mtsrunner said:


> I have found a decent deal on some 3/8" (9.5 mm) static line. The catch is, the minimum buy is 200'.
> I will buy it and cut it to your specified lengths if enough people are interested.
> 
> Here is the link to what I am looking at:
> http://www.sherrilltree.com/Professional-Gear/Static-Kernmantle_2/HTP-SnakeBite-Rope
> 
> I would just charge what it costs me per foot and then add actual shipping.
> Let me know...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mtsrunner

My2Sons said:


> I would be interested in getting in on this. Thanks.


OK, stay tuned. I might end up with 9mm static. I am beginning to worry that 3/8" might still be too big. I now know that the Muddy line is 9 mm. Might not want to go any bigger. The 9 mm that I am looking at still has a tensile strength of 5193 lbf.


----------



## born2kill

I ordered 100ft of Sterling 3/8 static od green from rockandrescue.com. Was $99.99+8.99 shipping. It is not an item they stock so it will take 2 weeks. Ordered it last week so should be here next week.


----------



## mtsrunner

born2kill said:


> I ordered 100ft of Sterling 3/8 static od green from rockandrescue.com. Was $99.99+8.99 shipping. It is not an item they stock so it will take 2 weeks. Ordered it last week so should be here next week.


Nice. Let us know if it works. I am leaning toward 9 mm Sterling HTC Static or SuperStatic. I will order on Monday.


----------



## ribsyj

Was looking at dock rope. Found four pack of 10' 3/8 diameter nylon rope with 10 inch eyes already. It says 668lbs safe working load. Says safe working load is 10 percent of breaking strength. Is this strong enough? And how do you think it would work with 10 inch eye?


----------



## mtsrunner

The 10" loop might not be ideal because it could pop off of the versa button when you take tension off of the stick. 
HOWEVER, that is easily fixed by making it a smaller loop by just putting a rubber band or tying small cord around the end. 
Nice find! 
Good luck this season. 



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## ribsyj

Ya 16 buck shipped for 4 pack can't beat it. It's white but I'll dye it black


----------



## BAMBI KILER

I have tried the 3/8 rope and found it to be too thick. The thickness on the muddy rope (9mm) is perfect. I need to find that rope and what they use for a prusick rope and make mine up


----------



## born2kill

BAMBI KILER said:


> I have tried the 3/8 rope and found it to be too thick. The thickness on the muddy rope (9mm) is perfect. I need to find that rope and what they use for a prusick rope and make mine up


That makes me worry about the 3/8 static I ordered. Cant find any 9mm static


----------



## Cooter2575

I find it hard to believe that just over .5mm makes that big of a difference. 3/8"=9.525.


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> I find it hard to believe that just over .5mm makes that big of a difference. 3/8"=9.525.


The problem is that some companies list their rope as 3/8", but it is actually 10mm. They should list it as what it really is. If their description states 3/8", they should also list it as 9.5 mm. If it is 10mm, they shouldn't list it as 3/8". I almost ordered a bunch of the Sterling HTC snakebite and it would have been too big.


----------



## mtsrunner

born2kill said:


> That makes me worry about the 3/8 static I ordered. Cant find any 9mm static


Send the 3/8" back if it is actually 10mm. Tell them they shouldn't list it as 3/8" if it is actually 10mm. 
I am going to order 9mm static tomorrow. It is the same stuff that is in my earlier picture (post #78) of the Lone Wolf rope. 
It is on Sterling's website:
http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/458878/P090/_/9mm_HTP

I guess I will go with the black unless everyone wants the neon green


----------



## mtsrunner

Actually, I am going to order this one, instead (if they have it in black, which I think they do). It is rated a little bit higher and as the advantage of a tighter weave on the sheath, which will be less likely to allow dirt in to the core of the rope. It is also slightly lighter weight than the 9 mm HTP static. 
http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/456025/N090/_/9mm_SuperStatic


----------



## born2kill

mtsrunner said:


> Send the 3/8" back if it is actually 10mm. Tell them they shouldn't list it as 3/8" if it is actually 10mm.
> I am going to order 9mm static tomorrow. It is the same stuff that is in my earlier picture (post #78) of the Lone Wolf rope.
> It is on Sterling's website:
> http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/458878/P090/_/9mm_HTP
> 
> I guess I will go with the black unless everyone wants the neon green


I cancelled my order of the 3/8 and am going to order the sterling 9mm static or superstatic. Would rather do it now than wait for the rope to come in and find it won't work.


----------



## j.d.m.

With aluminum, you would need a pretty good, strong weld. The stress that weld would see with the multiplied tourqe would end up breaking, and hunter falling. The square tubing is not thick enough for the weld stress alone in this application. I would never do it, just my opinion.


redruff said:


> Any reason..other than of course you can never rotate the step.....not to just tack weld along the bottom?


----------



## born2kill

I just updated my order with rockandrescue. Got 150ft of green Superstatic 9mm for 131.95 shipped. Customer service was very helpful in changing the order and finding exactly what I needed.


----------



## BAMBI KILER

born2kill,

good move, you wouldnt have been happy with the 3/8 rope. please let us know how it compares to the muddy rope and how it works out.

thanks


----------



## mtsrunner

I ordered 150' of the Sterling 9 mm Superstatic in Black today. Also ordered good 4mm cord that will be good for bow-raising ropes. Also got more 7/16" static and 7 mm prusik cord if anyone wants me to make tree safety lines or lifelines with sliding prusiks. 
I can cut to your length and tie all the necessary knots for you. It might be next week before it all gets here, but I will post updates on this thread. 

I got a pretty good deal on the Superstatic, so I should be able to get them out to people at $1/ft TYD. 

A standard tree safety line (also what I use when I hunt out of my Tree Saddle) is $25 TYD, which includes the mainline and prusik. 

The bow rope will be $.40/ft with no extra shipping if ordering other ropes. 

I had to order all this in bulk, so I hope people need some rope!


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## twyatt

Definitely count me in for sure for 35' of the 9mm Superstatic. PM sent too


----------



## mtsrunner

twyatt said:


> Definitely count me in for sure for 35' of the 9mm Superstatic. PM sent too


Gotcha



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## born2kill

BAMBI KILER said:


> born2kill,
> 
> good move, you wouldnt have been happy with the 3/8 rope. please let us know how it compares to the muddy rope and how it works out.
> 
> thanks


Yeah I think your right. Dont want to be fighting the rope 20ft up in a tree. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. He said I should receive it by Oct 1.


----------



## born2kill

mtsrunner said:


> I ordered 150' of the Sterling 9 mm Superstatic in Black today. Also ordered good 4mm cord that will be good for bow-raising ropes. Also got more 7/16" static and 7 mm prusik cord if anyone wants me to make tree safety lines or lifelines with sliding prusiks.
> I can cut to your length and tie all the necessary knots for you. It might be next week before it all gets here, but I will post updates on this thread.
> 
> I got a pretty good deal on the Superstatic, so I should be able to get them out to people at $1/ft TYD.
> 
> A standard tree safety line (also what I use when I hunt out of my Tree Saddle) is $25 TYD, which includes the mainline and prusik.
> 
> The bow rope will be $.40/ft with no extra shipping if ordering other ropes.
> 
> I had to order all this in bulk, so I hope people need some rope!


Check out the Doyles Huntin Hoist for your bow or gear. I quit using ropes when I discovered this device years ago. 30ft, no tangles, quiet, fast, has belt clip or you can attach to a stand. One of my favorite pieces of hunting equipment. Off the thread topic but worth mentioning.


----------



## mtsrunner

born2kill said:


> Check out the Doyles Huntin Hoist for your bow or gear. I quit using ropes when I discovered this device years ago. 30ft, no tangles, quiet, fast, has belt clip or you can attach to a stand. One of my favorite pieces of hunting equipment. Off the thread topic but worth mentioning.


I actually have a Doyle's huntin hoist. I used it a bunch when I used a climbing stand. It doesn't work as well with a hang-on and weighs too much for my taste. It is a really nice product, though. 


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## yoda4x4

Forgive me if this question is off-topic, but I'd like your thoughts on the following. Last year was the first year I started using my LW sticks and Alpha hang-on. I've been using this rope that I've always used, but sort of feel that it's too thin to use to haul the stand up. Would you think that 7mm accessory cord would be too big/thick to use for pulling up and then storing while on stand? 

David


----------



## mtsrunner

yoda4x4 said:


> Forgive me if this question is off-topic, but I'd like your thoughts on the following. Last year was the first year I started using my LW sticks and Alpha hang-on. I've been using this rope that I've always used, but sort of feel that it's too thin to use to haul the stand up. Would you think that 7mm accessory cord would be too big/thick to use for pulling up and then storing while on stand?
> 
> David


I don't know if this will help you or not, but here is a picture of 17' of 7mm rope next to some sticks. That is the longest single piece of 7mm I have right now. I am guessing you would want closer to 25'. 
Anyway, it is a little bulkier than I would care to carry just to raise a stand. 
The 4 mm that I just ordered is rated at 1034 lbs MBS. It is what I will use to raise my bow and maybe my Alpha (the Assault is so light that I just throw it over my shoulder and up I go). 










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## wvboy

Yoda,

try climbing with your stand on your back. once you're set up all you have to pull up is your bow.


----------



## 22jdub

PM Sent!



mtsrunner said:


> I ordered 150' of the Sterling 9 mm Superstatic in Black today. Also ordered good 4mm cord that will be good for bow-raising ropes. Also got more 7/16" static and 7 mm prusik cord if anyone wants me to make tree safety lines or lifelines with sliding prusiks.
> I can cut to your length and tie all the necessary knots for you. It might be next week before it all gets here, but I will post updates on this thread.
> 
> I got a pretty good deal on the Superstatic, so I should be able to get them out to people at $1/ft TYD.
> 
> A standard tree safety line (also what I use when I hunt out of my Tree Saddle) is $25 TYD, which includes the mainline and prusik.
> 
> The bow rope will be $.40/ft with no extra shipping if ordering other ropes.
> 
> I had to order all this in bulk, so I hope people need some rope!


----------



## yoda4x4

wvboy said:


> Yoda,
> 
> try climbing with your stand on your back. once you're set up all you have to pull up is your bow.


Thanks for the suggestion but I can't do that using the process that I'm currently using. I basically do the same as this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3clPFGAwB3s&list=PL3B4709EFD3CFF2BD&index=6&feature=plpp_video

David


----------



## PJ_WI

I only make one trip up the tree. When I get to the tree I put the bottom two sticks on the tree right away.
If I use 5 sticks I put up three.

I then setup my gear and get the hoist rope ready. I lay my backpack down and attach it to the bottom of
my hoist rope. Then I put my jacket and extra clothes in a loop right next to the backpack. I lay my bow
on top of the backpack and clip it to the rope leaving enough distance between the bow and pack so they
don't hit. I attach the rope to my harness. Put the tree stand on my back, extend the stick straps full length
and loop one climbing stick on the right and the other over my left shoulder.

I than secure the climbing belt and climb the tree hanging the last two sticks. Hang the tree stand with
the straps stuffed in my shirt or pocket. If it's the first time in the tree and I plan to return I'll have clipped
climbing rope to my harness. I'd secure that first, so I now have two ropes holding me. Secure the stand
climb in make sure its set. Pull up my bow, jacket and pack.


----------



## ruffme

Well, tried cutting my steps on the plasma table. My little torch didn't like the 3/8 inch thick aluminum. It cut it but they didn't turn out very nice.
Looks like I'm gonna have to write cnc code and do it on the mill. They should come out super clean on the Haas.


----------



## mtsrunner

redruff said:


> Well, tried cutting my steps on the plasma table. My little torch didn't like the 3/8 inch thick aluminum. It cut it but they didn't turn out very nice.
> Looks like I'm gonna have to write cnc code and do it on the mill. They should come out super clean on the Haas.


Count me in on the CNC-produced double steps, if you are willing to sell them ( I would sign a waiver of liability, if you wanted).


----------



## Cutt'em Jack

Count me in on the CNC-produced double steps, if you are willing to sell them ( I would sign a waiver of liability, if you wanted).

Me too!


----------



## born2kill

Definately interested in double steps since I have no metal fabrication skills what so ever.


----------



## My2Sons

Add me to the list. PM me details.


----------



## Okccj

I would also be interested in buying a double step if anyone can make them. Thank you.


----------



## Fiddes93

Okay guys! I'm not a new memeber here but i am a new poster! This past Spring I built 2 top of the line CNC plasma water tables. I am going to draw up steps tomorrow and gonna cut them out. I will let you guys know how they turn out and post a picture. If everything goes good I MIGHT make a few extra if I can. I will keep you guys posted in upcoming week or so! Patients is Key :wink:


----------



## mtsrunner

Fiddes93 said:


> Okay guys! I'm not a new memeber here but i am a new poster! This past Spring I built 2 top of the line CNC plasma water tables. I am going to draw up steps tomorrow and gonna cut them out. I will let you guys know how they turn out and post a picture. If everything goes good I MIGHT make a few extra if I can. I will keep you guys posted in upcoming week or so! Patients is Key :wink:


Be careful, or you will end up spending as much time building steps for guys on AT as you do at your real job!
I would be interested in a couple if you make extra. 


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----------



## Ross R

I used the foam on a different brand of climbing sticks and on my ladder stands - I thought it really helped deaden any noise.


----------



## hoytbaxter

redruff said:


> Well, tried cutting my steps on the plasma table. My little torch didn't like the 3/8 inch thick aluminum. It cut it but they didn't turn out very nice.
> Looks like I'm gonna have to write cnc code and do it on the mill. They should come out super clean on the Haas.


Be careful with a plasma and aluminum. It can cut it, but look at the effects in strength and temper. If cutting 6061-T6, you may reduces its strength to that of 6061-O (half). I don't know for sure, but worth looking into. Heck, I would like to know. 

Water jet would knock these out as well. 

Good luck.


----------



## jmak

I would also be interested in some steps if you decide to make extras and sell them.

Thanks,
jmak


----------



## ruffme

hoytbaxter said:


> Be careful with a plasma and aluminum. It can cut it, but look at the effects in strength and temper. If cutting 6061-T6, you may reduces its strength to that of 6061-O (half). I don't know for sure, but worth looking into. Heck, I would like to know.
> 
> Water jet would knock these out as well.
> 
> Good luck.


Ya the more I think about it, it's a job for the mill. Plasma cnc is fast and easy, but like everything there are trade offs.


----------



## ruffme

Fiddes93 said:


> Okay guys! I'm not a new memeber here but i am a new poster! This past Spring I built 2 top of the line CNC plasma water tables. I am going to draw up steps tomorrow and gonna cut them out. I will let you guys know how they turn out and post a picture. If everything goes good I MIGHT make a few extra if I can. I will keep you guys posted in upcoming week or so! Patients is Key :wink:


Two questions
1. Where did you get the info on building a water jet.
2. You want my file to save some time?


----------



## Fiddes93

Sorry, I worded that kinda weird. Its a plasma cnc but there is a 4'' tray that is full of water. The parts sit about an 1/8 inch about the water. This virturally eliminates any smoke that the plasma usually puts off. It also asks like a cooling agent. As soon as the part is done cutting, i can EASILY pick it up with bare hands. I think this would eliminate the weaking of the Aluminium. Aluminium is weakened when it is heated and there is no heat affected zone with the water. Here is a picture of one table, and of the step i drew. Il take you up on the offer redruff. I drew one up last night but if it doesnt work il give your's a shot. Just PM me if you dont mind


----------



## ruffme

Game changer?
http://www.fleetfarm.com/mff/detail/rivers-edge-fast-sticks-climbing-aid-3-pk-/0000000025935


----------



## mtsrunner

redruff said:


> Game changer?
> http://www.fleetfarm.com/mff/detail/rivers-edge-fast-sticks-climbing-aid-3-pk-/0000000025935


Not a game changer due to the fact that 3 sticks weight 19 lbs. The people who use Lone Wolf sticks generally set up and break down each time they hunt and lightweight and quiet are paramount. However, that is a smoking deal on those sticks and if you hunt the same spots more than a few times, those would be worth buying and just leaving on the tree. Thanks!


----------



## PJ_WI

They are heavy and don't pack well.

If I put up a stand for a few days I'll put up two or three of these and then take my stand and bottom two lone wolf sticks out. Gander clearanced them for $6.00 each 6+ years ago and bought 6. Should have bought 20.



redruff said:


> Game changer?
> http://www.fleetfarm.com/mff/detail/rivers-edge-fast-sticks-climbing-aid-3-pk-/0000000025935


----------



## dandbuck

anybody want to buy my cnc mill? 
It's an older Mazak Micro V, looking at $5000 with 24 spot tool changer and computer. No longer have programmer on the payroll. pm for more info


----------



## mtsrunner

I couldn't sleep tonight, so I messed around with my climbing harness and found a better way than my current method to take my sticks up the tree:
Here is the link:
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1855466


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## LockStock&Arrow

Ok, a lot of rope and loop ideas have been thrown around to this point. Lets make it a little easier for others to read through...Great thread with some really innovative ideas. This just goes to show how everyone spit balling together can make our equipment lighter and more efficient. 
Storm27m, thank you very much for starting this thread for us and to all those that did the youtube videos and similar past threads. 


Lets recap...what is the consensus for rope the following

1. Rope Brand & Diameter

2. Rope length

3. Preferred method of Loop.


----------



## mtsrunner

LockStock&Arrow said:


> Ok, a lot of rope and loop ideas have been thrown around to this point. Lets make it a little easier for others to read through...Great thread with some really innovative ideas. This just goes to show how everyone spit balling together can make our equipment lighter and more efficient.
> Storm27m, thank you very much for starting this thread for us and to all those that did the youtube videos and similar past threads.
> 
> 
> Lets recap...what is the consensus for rope the following
> 
> 1. Rope Brand & Diameter
> 
> 2. Rope length
> 
> 3. Preferred method of Loop.


Yes, definite kudos to Storm27m for starting the thread!

I think most people are going to settle with 9 mm static rope of about 6.5' of working length after the loop has been made. As far as brand of rope, there are many good ones. I have an order on the way of 300' of Sterling Superstatic. 
Others (myself included) have been using Amsteel Blue. I am using 1/4", but 5/16" might be better. 
In general, you need to figure about an extra 1.5-2.5 feet to make the loop. 
The Lone Wolf cam buckle strap is about 5.5' long, for reference. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtsrunner

Update on the rope order. Sterling is manufacturing it now and it will be two weeks before I get it. 
If anyone has sent me $ an doesn't want to wait, let me know and I will refund your money. 
Thanks,
Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## weave

Tagged for later

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## PJ_WI

I would would be nice to get it in a dark tan or gray.

Black horizontal lines really standout in the woods. You can see the straps from a long way off. I hated when LW went from the gray to black straps. I see they now use brown which is a lot better then the black.


----------



## yoda4x4

PJ_WI said:


> I would would be nice to get it in a dark tan or gray.
> 
> Black horizontal lines really standout in the woods. You can see the straps from a long way off. I hated when LW went from the gray to black straps. I see they now use brown which is a lot better then the black.


Are you worried about the deer seeing the lines or are you worried about the sticks being stolen because you are leaving them in the woods?

David


----------



## mtsrunner

PJ_WI said:


> I would would be nice to get it in a dark tan or gray.
> 
> Black horizontal lines really standout in the woods. You can see the straps from a long way off. I hated when LW went from the gray to black straps. I see they now use brown which is a lot better then the black.


I kind of agree, but they only make it in black, white, green and red. 
The black actually blends in on pine trees, not so much on oaks. 


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## PJ_WI

I leave them in the woods alot. Sometimes I take the bottom two. I'm in far enough I don't have to worry about people cutting pine boughs, but a grouse hunter could walk by. I just hope they are honest.



yoda4x4 said:


> Are you worried about the deer seeing the lines or are you worried about the sticks being stolen because you are leaving them in the woods?
> 
> David


----------



## jacobmhd

I placed my order for aluminum tubing, flat bar stock, and components. I had to get creative to make the piece that rests against the tree since I do not have access to a CNC machine. Ironically, shipping was the most expensive part. I'll try to document my process to share with this thread, as I'll be starting from scratch.


----------



## PA B0WHUNT3R

PJ_WI said:


> I would would be nice to get it in a dark tan or gray.
> 
> Black horizontal lines really standout in the woods. You can see the straps from a long way off. I hated when LW went from the gray to black straps. I see they now use brown which is a lot better then the black.


Spray paint


----------



## jace

Can you use this static line on the stand itself, or just stick with the cam loop strap they give you


----------



## mtsrunner

jace said:


> Can you use this static line on the stand itself, or just stick with the cam loop strap they give you


I still prefer the cam strap for the stand because I cam lock the stand, which requires that you re-tighten the strap during the process. That wouldn't be possible with the rope. 
You could do a modified can lock with the rope. I will try it and see if it gets as solid as the normal cam lock method. 



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## jace

thanks I just pm'ed you


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## mrbillbrown

I'm also interested in some dual steps for the LW sticks. Put me on the update list please. Bill


----------



## mikehess51

Great thread!


----------



## ruffme

I just wanted to mention...I am going to give these a shot on the mill...but I'm doing these in my "spare" time, which isn't much these days.
And I'm not sure about the whole liability thing...they are just coat hangers after all:wink:
Be patient...but pheasant season starts soon!


----------



## IAHNTR

I just read through all 7 1/2 pages and this is one awesome thread. I used LW sticks every hunt last year and probably will this year too. I love the double step idea for the middle step. That would about make the steps perfect and the ropes are an awesome addition as well. I like the buckles because you can tighten them down, but hadn't used the ropes much. Actually i just bought one Muddy step to use as my top step, but would rather carry 4 LW sticks than 3 LW and 1 Muddy. 

I would be up for buying 4 or 5 steps if someone is milling them and some rope. I realize everyone is super busy right now and it might be awhile, but this is just one, make that two, good ideas in one thread. 

My input to this thread is that I wrapped my sticks in black Koban (horse wrap) and that has been AWESOME for noise reduction. I also wrapped the buckles in hockey tape and cut slits where the strap is and they are pretty much silent. Pulling down (setting) the stick against the tree makes the most noise.


----------



## born2kill

My Sterling Superstatic 9mm is suppose to be in tomorrow so says Fedex tracking. Going to get sticks rigged tomorrow afternoon.


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## nick060200

i really like the idea of the rope instead of the buckle stuff;
im going to order this:
http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/458878/P090/_/9mm_HTP

if i can get 3 other guys to spilt it with me i will order and cut the rope to 37.5' each for $35 sent to you. 

i want to do this but i dont want the 150' they are going to send me.

PM me and we can set something up, i need 3 guys that are serious and will not back out on me.

if you have another link to something similar (9mm static) let me know and we can compare and make the deal.

anyone want to do this??????


----------



## pbuck

Nick. I'd be interested in some rope if you order it. Tried to pm ya but my tapatalk seems to be having some issues on my new phone.


----------



## twyatt

Nick and Pbuck, pm mtsrunner, I think he's already got some on order that should be here any day, and he is going to be selling off some of it.


----------



## nick060200

twyatt said:


> Nick and Pbuck, pm mtsrunner, I think he's already got some on order that should be here any day, and he is going to be selling off some of it.


i'll check with him, is it the same 9mm rope?

if it does not work out pbuck is in on my deal for 37.5' @ $35

i need 2 more guys and i can order up this week.


----------



## twyatt

Nick, pm him and ask him. I feel pretty certain it's exactly what everyone is looking for, and in an earlier post he said he was ordering in bulk and hoping to sell some to guys on here. I've got my order in with him and am just waiting for it to show up.


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## mtsrunner

twyatt said:


> Nick, pm him and ask him. I feel pretty certain it's exactly what everyone is looking for, and in an earlier post he said he was ordering in bulk and hoping to sell some to guys on here. I've got my order in with him and am just waiting for it to show up.


Yes, I ordered 300' of the 9 mm Superstatic from Sterling. It turned out to be special order because no one had it in black. I need to add up my totals, because I think I have committed almost all of it already. I hope it will be here later this week or early next week. 
I can re-order if I run out. Hopefully, it won't take so long next time. I will post here when I get the order. I have saved everyone's PMs that asked me to save some rope for them. 
Thanks.


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## born2kill

Got my 9mm Sterling Superstatic in today. First piece I cut was 8' (6' 7" working rope) and after playing with different knots I found a bowline best as it is considered a life safety knot and used the least amount of rope. I put it on one stick and placed it on a tree. After some testing I decided to go with 10' pieces giving me 8' 7" of working rope. This would be fine for the bigger trees in the area I hunt. Rope was easy to wrap around sticks for packing and all sticks stacked neatly. I think I'll like this new method of using sticks.


----------



## Storm27m

born2kill said:


> Got my 9mm Sterling Superstatic in today. First piece I cut was 8' (6' 7" working rope) and after playing with different knots I found a bowline best as it is considered a life safety knot and used the least amount of rope. I put it on one stick and placed it on a tree. After some testing I decided to go with 10' pieces giving me 8' 7" of working rope. This would be fine for the bigger trees in the area I hunt. Rope was easy to wrap around sticks for packing and all sticks stacked neatly. I think I'll like this new method of using sticks.


I certainly do!

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## nick060200

looks like mtsrunner might have all the guys he needs to get rid of his rope,
SO
i need 2 other guys...............
im ordering:
http://www.sterlingrope.com/product/458878/P090/_/9mm_HTP

in black 150'

that leaves (2) 37.5' sections @ $35 TYD
that's more than enough to use for (4) sticks

Pbuck is already in on this..................i need 2 more guys
PM me and i can order up and ship to you


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## pbuck

Bump for anyone looking to order rope for this. We need a couple more.


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## mtsrunner

pbuck said:


> Bump for anyone looking to order rope for this. We need a couple more.


I have had a few guys back out of their order, so I might be able to cover everyone with the 300' of Sterling Superstatic that I have coming. If you want to hold off until early next week, I can give a definite answer. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nick060200

Let us know either way. But if there is one more guy that wants rope for (4) sticks that's all I need to make this order. $35 for 37.5' of the 9mm static line. Pm me and I can order it up. 

If I can't get one guy I'll wait to see if mtsrunner can supply anymore if not I'm ordering an me and pbuck will just go halves


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## ffsmv

I"m looking for 45ft. of the 9mm static line.. Do you guys have enough???


----------



## nick060200

I got the guys I need. Waiting on payment and our 150' will be divided up.


----------



## bow4bulls

To quiet your climbing sticks try removing hardware so you are down to the square tube only and slide shrink tubing over it and use a propane torch to slowly shrink it. Little weight added and a lot less smell.


----------



## mtsrunner

ffsmv said:


> I"m looking for 45ft. of the 9mm static line.. Do you guys have enough???


I might have enough. Let me add it up and get back to you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LockStock&Arrow

I could be looking for enough for 4 as well...Looks like I missed the boat


----------



## Doty Bumb

Going to use ropes and add a harkens cam cleat to each lone wolf stick. What do you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNTmXsIVDQ


----------



## mtsrunner

Doty Bumb said:


> Going to use ropes and add a harkens cam cleat to each lone wolf stick. What do you think?
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNTmXsIVDQ


Nice. Can you give more detail on the rubber coating of your Amsteel rope?


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## JOG

mtsrunner said:


> Nice. Can you give more detail on the rubber coating of your Amsteel rope?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think that was jsouthern on the vid and would have the answer to the coating for u 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JOG

Where can u get harkens cleats


----------



## jacobmhd

I don't know if he used one of these methods or coatings, but i thought this website offered interesting info.

http://www.industrialpolymers.com/product-list/rope-coatings/


----------



## mtsrunner

jacobmhd said:


> I don't know if he used one of these methods or coatings, but i thought this website offered interesting info.
> 
> http://www.industrialpolymers.com/product-list/rope-coatings/


That's cool. I know that Amsteel comes with a coating already (I think it's called Samthane). 
It would probably be a good idea to contact Samson and see what they think about adding extra coating to Amsteel. It is already pretty slippery. The way we have been using it might not like more additional coating. The knot might not hold. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ruffme

These are not...the milled steps.....

Just wanted to get a feel for the weight look...they are crude...these are plasma cut but I wanted to get a feel for these.


----------



## PJ_WI

The Harken cams are great.

I would like that on my LW do have you found the dimensions anywhere? LW Sticks would currently use a 3/4" stack height.

They are expensive, the cheapest I saw them was $19 and I have 7 sticks.

I would not trust the knot through a drilled hole, I would try to figure something else. If the height on the cleat is near 3/4" you could possibly put the versa button on the side of the stick and and put a large loop on the rope that spans around the cam cleat.


----------



## BAMBI KILER

PJ WI,

I am going to look into the cam cleats as well. I am just trying to figure out how to attach the other end of the rope. I am thinking about drilling a hole from side to side under the cleat and tying a knot in some amsteel blue 1/4 rope, but dont like the idea of the rope rubbing against the drilled hole possibly causing it to be cut. I may just leave the versa button on and attach the cleat above it. Anyone have any better ideas?


----------



## PJ_WI

BAMBI KILER said:


> PJ WI,
> 
> I am going to look into the cam cleats as well. I am just trying to figure out how to attach the other end of the rope. I am thinking about drilling a hole from side to side under the cleat and tying a knot in some amsteel blue 1/4 rope, but dont like the idea of the rope rubbing against the drilled hole possibly causing it to be cut. I may just leave the versa button on and attach the cleat above it. Anyone have any better ideas?


If you can space the cleat properly to get the sticks to stack, then you will not need the versa button. I was thinking drill the hole side to side like you said and mount the versa button through the hole putting it on the side the rope enters the cleat. On the fixed end tie a big loop that can be put over the versa button and around the cleat one leg of the loop on each side. I would just pack the ropes separately from the sticks. I do that with the current straps now, because I feel it is quieter.


----------



## PJ_WI

There are a couple other cleats that are a little cheaper

Schaefer Fast Entry Cam Cleats

Ronstan Carbon Fiber Small Cam Cleats

K Clam Cleats


----------



## BAMBI KILER

PJ WI,

I found those as well. Im making a trip to west marine tomorrow to see if they have any I can hold to see how are. If I bite the bullet and buy some I will post up pics of the sticks.


----------



## dandbuck

I like the idea of the cam cleat and really looked into them. In the end I just did nt want to spend the $$$$. My constrictor ropes work just fine and do not take very long. For 4 LW sticks I might add 1 minute to my climb versus using the cam cleat. I do see value in switching the center step to a dual step though, might do that yet. BTW, to anyone that know how to program a CNC mill, buy my Mazak Micro-V5 and start making these for everyone. $5000 it's yours


----------



## deergoneit

Sweet thread!
Going to try this mod with the leverage 17" sticks I bought!
Do you think I could get the LW button to mount? Any thoughts on custom button?
Thanks for the idea

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note


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## BAMBI KILER

Well i bailed out on the cam cleat idea. Pretty slick idea but i cant justify to myself spending that kinda money on my sticks that i dont always use. Gonna try the amsteel blue rope and see how that works. This is an awesome thread!


----------



## PJ_WI

BAMBI KILER said:


> Well i bailed out on the cam cleat idea. Pretty slick idea but i cant justify to myself spending that kinda money on my sticks that i dont always use. Gonna try the amsteel blue rope and see how that works. This is an awesome thread!


I also think the cost is too high ($17.90 per stick), and if it messed with the stacking which I believe it will it wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## deergoneit

Leverage sticks 5152, $99/4 17" model
Made my own button with 1/4" x 2 1/2" bolt, washer & 3/8" alum round stock cut at 3/4".
I used 3/8" nylon rope (bad idea, stretch was horrible)
I will be using 3/8" static (blk) and use only knots. will cut access bolt and will stack awesomely (btw...They stack awesome oem style)





























Very impressed so far with these sticks. Will be packing in with a gorilla scout & using strap on step for first 2-3

Cannot thank OP enough for the Idea, think this will definetly make my set-up lightweight


----------



## mtsrunner

JOG said:


> I think that was jsouthern on the vid and would have the answer to the coating for u
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


JSouthern told me that he used the spray on PlastiDip rubber coating for his rope. They make it in camo colors, now. I couldn't find any locally, but ordered some gray and green online. I will post some pics when I get mine coated.


----------



## Doty Bumb

I'm thinking of using 8mm prusik line in black. Should be small enough yet enough strength to do the job?

http://www.karstsports.com/8mmaccor.html


----------



## dinodonofrio

Ttt


----------



## mtsrunner

*Update on the 9mm Superstatic*

Ok guys, I wanted to update everyone that has asked me for rope. Sterling kind of messed up my order (or it might have been the distributor that I went through?). Anyway, I only received 150' and they are having to make another run of 150' for me now. It should be less than 2 weeks on that order.

I have mailed a few orders from the first shipment and I have about 64' in three pieces left. I need to go in order of the people who asked me for rope and I will PM each person as I can.

Here is the current waiting list in order:
Shinobi3
MattG
22jdub
My2Sons
BHMTitan
jmak
Jace
Nick060200
JOG

If you can, let me know if you are still in for the 9 mm and how many feet (and if you want it cut in certain lenghts). I will start working my way down the list with PM's to give people first right of refusal on the current inventory. 
Sorry about the massive delay. I had no idea it would take this long and be such a PITA. 
Thanks,
Kevin


----------



## Henge

I like the idea of the rope vs buckle/strap on the sticks. Has anyone done or thought about doing the same swap on lone wolfs hang on stands?


----------



## mtsrunner

Henge said:


> I like the idea of the rope vs buckle/strap on the sticks. Has anyone done or thought about doing the same swap on lone wolfs hang on stands?


I am going to hang my Assault with the rope method in about 8 hours. It is starting to get cold here and the bucks are moving. I will post a pic here from my stand in the morning. I did a dry run this afternoon and had no issues. I use the cam-lock method to set my Lone Wolf hang-ons. I will let you know if I like it as much as the cam buckle after a few hunts. I like the idea of getting rid of the buckle because of noise, weight and strength. The other reason I would like to get away from the buckle is because there are times when I hunt in the afternoon and leave my stand overnight to hunt it again in the morning. When I do that and the weather gets below freezing, I worry about the stress on that little steel spring in the cam-buckle. The freezing and thawing of that spring could potentially affect it enough to cause it to lose its grip on the strap. Always wear a safety harness boys and girls!


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## mtsrunner

On stand this morning. I used the rope to hang my sticks and stand this morning. It went very smoothly. I took just over 30 minutes from the base of the tree until ready to shoot. I am never in a hurry, I would rather stay really quiet and not sweat. 















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Henge

Anyone ever consider using a Boating cleat for fastening the rope. This may eliminate need to tie knots and would be faster. It may add slightly more weight but probably not much.


----------



## jacobmhd

intersting thought, inititial search shows most cleats cost more than the lone wolf versa button. Might be nice if you had a couple laying around, but I don't think it gets much cheaper or simple that the DIY Versa Button.


----------



## hoytbaxter

I am in the process of playing with the boat cleat idea. I have been working on it for a month. Seems to work well. Clam Cleat item to be specific. $10 ish with many different variations. Works very well. Pictures to follow soon.


----------



## hoytbaxter

Doty Bumb said:


> Going to use ropes and add a harkens cam cleat to each lone wolf stick. What do you think?
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNTmXsIVDQ



The Cam Cleats are EXPENSIVE!! Well, all the ones I found. $25-30 if I am not mistaken. Look at the Clam Cleat: http://www.clamcleat.com/home/default.asp


----------



## Henge

I think the Clam Cleats look like they would work better. But I was thinking about just using a small one of these;
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/pro...tent_goobasecontent_filler&cID=SHOPPING_21123


----------



## StLMOguy

I believe those may be a bit heavy and perhaps noisy. I have the same cleats but made of plastic on my 20 foot jon boat and have pulled done very heavy objects with them. Last thing i want to do is fall room climbing a darn tree, but i would trust the plastic ones i have as much as i would the metal ones for this application. 

For ALL of you making mods, I'd personally be most concerned about cranking the bolts to tight if you are drilling all the way through the main upright square tubing. Without a spacer or ferrel inside the tubing, i think it would be east to

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## StLMOguy

StLMOguy said:


> I believe those may be a bit heavy and perhaps noisy. I have the same cleats but made of plastic on my 20 foot jon boat and have pulled done very heavy objects with them. Last thing i want to do is fall room climbing a darn tree, but i would trust the plastic ones i have as much as i would the metal ones for this application.
> 
> For ALL of you making mods, I'd personally be most concerned about cranking the bolts to tight if you are drilling all the way through the main upright square tubing. Without a spacer or ferrel inside the tubing, i think it would be east to
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Crap! Hit "send" instead of back space!

Anyway..... I think it would be easy to collapse the tubing if you're not careful. Definitely use nylon lock nuts....IMHO

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Storm27m

I know this will get lost in no time but I am not making and selling these steps. Please quit asking. If I was selling them, I'd post them in the classifieds and not the DIY. Thanks.


----------



## buktruk

Just ordered some rope.


----------



## deergoneit

I will be using one of these to attach my sticks to. I've cut sections of paracord coated in plasti dip. 









I will strap this around my waist, and hook the steps to it. When I reach the top I will hook this to the tree, and hang my stand from it (coated paracord also hooked from stand), this gives me hand free to hook my strap on for stand.

Going to try it out today


sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note


----------



## nick060200

just an update to redruff and pbuck, im still waiting on our rope


----------



## simmshunter

Does anybody have any extra rope left the want to sell?


----------



## ruffme

nick060200 said:


> just an update to redruff and pbuck, im still waiting on our rope


no problem I'm a long way off in needing it


----------



## mtsrunner

simmshunter said:


> Does anybody have any extra rope left the want to sell?


I have another 150' of 9 mm Suoerstatic arriving Friday. Just PM me how much you need and if you want it cut. $1/ft TYD 
Everyone else that was on my list, shoot me a PM and confirm how much you want, if you still want it. Should be able to ship on Saturday or Monday. 
Thanks. 
Kevin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DXT1

mtsrunner,
i would like to get on the new list for rope

Thanks

DXT1


----------



## mtsrunner

All Pms answered. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mtsrunner

I have more of the 9 mm Superstatic in black if anyone is interested. $1/ft TYD. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nick060200

looks like my order was messed up and now i'm getting an extra 50', so i can do the same as MTSrunner and do $1 per 1' tyd.
pm me and i will get it sent out this friday.
it's 9mm static and is exactly 9mm. not the 9.5 or whatever.


----------



## Kblack1101

MTSRUNNER Pm sent
Thanks


----------



## nick060200

redruff said:


> no problem I'm a long way off in needing it


hey redruff, your mailbox is full, i need your address again. your rope is ready bud.


----------



## nick060200

Ttt. 
I got my rope all cut and it works great. Way better than the buckles. No more noise. I'll post a pic later


----------



## yoda4x4

Any chance one of you guys could do a video of attaching the sticks with ropes as you're climbing?

David 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## nick060200

It's getting dark now and we are suppose to have part of a hurricane come thru the next 48 hrs. SE PA. I can do a vid after it passes. It's not hard. Tie a fixed loop on one end and a half hitch on the other after u wrap it around the tree.


----------



## nick060200

Ttt


----------



## Killemquietly

If you're not a machinist, you should be!!! You have an incredible talent.


----------



## DrenalinHntr1

nick060200 said:


> View attachment 1507188
> 
> It's getting dark now and we are suppose to have part of a hurricane come thru the next 48 hrs. SE PA. I can do a vid after it passes. It's not hard. Tie a fixed loop on one end and a half hitch on the other after u wrap it around the tree.


Hope you made it through the storm OK? Look forward to your vid of the rope system. Just got my LW's and already wanting to mod them.


----------



## mandrroofing

Ttt


----------



## pbuck

Gave my stick and rope combo a good work out in Iowa last week and I have to say its a sweet mod. Besides being somewhat lighter, theres no more worrying about clanking the buckle on something so I can climb and hang somewhat faster. Thanks for the idea and thanks, nick for getting the rope to me. 

One small minus I did notice was that the sticks aren't quite as tight to the tree as with the straps. They will pull out away from the tree a little sometimes if you're not pulling straight down when using the next stick to pull yourself up so just be cautious of that.


----------



## nick060200

pbuck said:


> Gave my stick and rope combo a good work out in Iowa last week and I have to say its a sweet mod. Besides being somewhat lighter, theres no more worrying about clanking the buckle on something so I can climb and hang somewhat faster. Thanks for the idea and thanks, nick for getting the rope to me.
> 
> One small minus I did notice was that the sticks aren't quite as tight to the tree as with the straps. They will pull out away from the tree a little sometimes if you're not pulling straight down when using the next stick to pull yourself up so just be cautious of that.


 did you use a loop on one end and a half hitch on the other? i found using the half hitch allowed me to get it real tight to the tree, but your right you can't get it as tight as the buckle.


----------



## pbuck

nick060200 said:


> did you use a loop on one end and a half hitch on the other? i found using the half hitch allowed me to get it real tight to the tree, but your right you can't get it as tight as the buckle.


Yep. Loop and 2 half hitches. Like I said it works great just not quite as tight to the tree. Not a real problem just something to be aware of.


----------



## Storm27m

I figured it's time for an update to my original post now that the season is well on its way and I've had plenty of chances to use the modified steps. All in all, I'm writing this off as a complete success! The steps are working out great. The dual step is about as good as it gets...don't know what else to say about that. I love having the ability to have both feet on a step at any given time. I did run into one downside though. I wasn't paying attention while hanging one set and rammed my head into the bottom step of one stick. If the stick had been the original single step, I would have had a 50/50 chance of not hitting the step.

The rope, while not perfect, is pretty dang awesome. I've learned to allow a little more space between steps to allow for the sag when putting weight on the next step. Regardless of how tight I get the rope, the step always drops 4-8 inches. Regardless, it's still better (in the end) than using the buckles. It's quiet enough that I was able to hang a stand while having a deer within 50 yards. I haven't used my Muddy steps at all this year. The modified LW steps beat them out in all aspects.

My camo paint job isn't holding up perfectly, but I expected that. I didn't prep the stick at all, so the rope has been rubbing off the paint in some areas. I really don't care...the steps still look and function amazingly well. Ironically, when I shot my buck, I was in a setup that only required three screw in steps to get to height. My LW sticks were stacked neatly in the car during the hunt. I've still got a doe tag so they may see a little redemption before things are all said and done!

I'm glad you guys have made such good use of this mod, especially the rope. You guys have added some great ideas and info to the post. Good luck to you all for the remainder of the season!


----------



## yoda4x4

I know everyone's busy but if someone could post a video showing how you use the sticks especially off the ground it would be appreciated. I'm having difficulty trying to picture how it's done. Thanks. 

David 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## elkbow69

Anyone building these sticks think if using a "water faucet" hand gizmo thingy for the "botton" and just bolt it on. Those are pretty cheap and I would think plenty strong.

Or bolting on an Eyebolt that is 3/8" or so perpendidular to the stick?


----------



## Cooter2575

Been using the rope idea all season. With the ropes I made and my UCRs. I don't use the constrictor part of the UCRs any more just tie with The half hitches. I hook the loop with constrictor part to versa button and tie off with the other end. Less material makes tying the knots easier.

I have been tying two half hitches on each side of the versa button now for more piece of mind.

















Here is the rope I made with amsteel. If you check my previous post I give all the measurements I used. The amsteel is a lighter color than I would like. Hooking the loop on the middle step keeps it tight and is nice for packing.









I have three setups now all using ropes for the sticks. I still like the straps for the stand itself. Notice the color deference between the UCR and my amsteel. Anyone know what he uses?









I have no problem going 20+ feet high with this setup.









Thanks again for sharing your idea. But hey can you make me some double steps? JK


----------



## Cooter2575

Found my own answer. It is tenex 12 strand. 

I am thinking about ordering some if anyone is interested.


----------



## mtsrunner

Cooter2575 said:


> Found my own answer. It is tenex 12 strand.
> 
> I am thinking about ordering some if anyone is interested.


I think I would stick with the Amsteel Blue 1/4" over the Tenex 12 strand. Look at the average break strengths: 8600 vs. 3200. It's worth the extra $ in my mind. 
If you are worried about the color, order the black Amsteel Blue, it is really more like a dark gray. Here is a picture of mine.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cooter2575

I think 3200# is plenty strong enough.


----------



## deer slayer 11

Anybody try this? http://www.nautos-usa.com/catalogo_...1025 Composite , 2 row ball bearing cam cleat


----------



## Greg Clark

This appears to be the same as the Muddy Rope based on the picture and size.

http://www.justropes.com/store/p/863-METOLIUS-Monster-Climbing-Rope-9mm-x-100m-Static.aspx

It is not currently available but might keep an eye on it if interested.


----------



## Cooter2575

Im selling rope with loops on both ends in the classifieds if anyone is interested.


----------



## HCH

Nice work!


----------



## Henge

Looks good!


----------



## Tony219er

mtsrunner said:


> I think I would stick with the Amsteel Blue 1/4" over the Tenex 12 strand. Look at the average break strengths: 8600 vs. 3200. It's worth the extra $ in my mind.
> If you are worried about the color, order the black Amsteel Blue, it is really more like a dark gray. Here is a picture of mine.
> View attachment 1525850
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you have your steps dipped? They look kick ass whatever you did.


----------



## crawdad

Nice work, I love the custom DIY work. That said, I thought I read where Muddy finally produced some longer sticks. Does anyone have a link to some info on that?


----------



## yoda4x4

I hate to sound like a broken record but can someone post a video showing how you attach the sticks with the rope while you are climbing. In other words, when you are NOT on the ground. Thanks!

David 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## twyatt

yoda4x4 said:


> I hate to sound like a broken record but can someone post a video showing how you attach the sticks with the rope while you are climbing. In other words, when you are NOT on the ground. Thanks!
> 
> David
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


David, I don't have a video, but I can try to explain. I attach my first stick from the ground, then I put another stick on each side of my rock climbing harness, and hold the 4th stick in my hand. I climb up on the first stick and put the second against the tree and held it there with my chest and held the tree with my left hand, reached around the tree with my right hand and grabbed the rope and pulled it around to the front and ran it behind the loop. Once you get the loose end behind the loop, the stick will stay. Then I could lean back a little and keep holding the tree with my left hand, and finish off the knot with my right hand. Then climb up on the second stick, hook up my lineman's rope, and now have my hands free to finish setting up the 3rd and 4th stick. 
I actually played with the ropes a bunch, and ended up going back to the stock straps. I just found it easier for me personally to use the stock straps. The weight you save with the ropes was minimal. I had the Muddy sticks before I got my LW sticks, and to me what made the rope system great on the Muddy's was that they were used in conjunction with a cam cleat, allowing me to reach around the tree and pull the rope around and run it thru the cleat and lock the stick in place with one quick motion, and one hand. With no cam cleat on the LW sticks, I don't quite see as much benefit there, so I switched back to the standard LW straps. A lineman's rope/strap is a necessity for either method, and after a suggestion from another member, I switched my lineman's rope out for an actual LW strap. Now I use an actual LW strap as my lineman's strap. I girth hitch the longer end to the left side of my harness, and use a carabiner to hook it to the right side of my harness. Then I can use the cam buckle to very easily pull myself tighter to the tree, or loosen it, with one hand. I'm sure there are 1000 different ways to do things, but that's what works for me. I put the first stick on from the ground, climb up and hook the second one, then with a stick on either side of my harness, I climb up on the second stick and hook up my lineman's, and then hook up the 3rd stick, climb up and hook the 4th. I've only had my Alpha and sticks since this summer, am not in great shape, and I'm 5'11". I timed myself and can go up at a normal pace and be hooked in and sitting in 8 minutes, and have the bottom of my platform at 20' on the dot.


----------



## Storm27m

crawdad said:


> Nice work, I love the custom DIY work. That said, I thought I read where Muddy finally produced some longer sticks. Does anyone have a link to some info on that?


I read the same info...that the came out with a solid, non-folding dual step and longer stick. I haven't been able to find any more info. I'm interested to see how the look. I also heard they were strap hook up instead of rope.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## yoda4x4

Storm27m said:


> I read the same info...that the came out with a solid, non-folding dual step and longer stick. I haven't been able to find any more info. I'm interested to see how the look. I also heard they were strap hook up instead of rope.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


Here's the 2 new sticks from Muddy 
http://www.gomuddy.com/store/maincat-Climbing-Sticks/2.html

David


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## Storm27m

Thanks for the link. They must have posted them on there in the last few days. They weren't on their site last week. They look vaguely familiar...lol. I wonder why they didn't keep the rope/cleat setup though. I think that would have been a home run.


----------



## pxt

Who do I pm to buy some of those steps?


----------



## droppixel

For the guys that have done this mod, not sure if it has been asked in the 11 pages ...

Do you prefer the OPs method or UCRs? I've seen the UCRs in some other threads and was wondering if there is any benefit to one over the other or if they would essentially give you the same end result.


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## HCH

Ucr's. I've used them for 4-5 seasons alot. Foolproof and safe. Ropes have been used a lot, w no sign of wear.


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## mosthatedkennel

I am going to order me some Amsteel Blue 1/4, How many feet do I need to order if I am putting this on 4 sticks?


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## buckman2591

shoot for 25 foot


----------



## LockStock&Arrow

Haven't checked this thread since last fall when I received my rope....Was wondering if anyone is making the double steps for sale. I am 216 lbs and my single ones are bending where the step rests on the button. The aluminum literally is like clay.


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## mrbillbrown

I'd be interested in a few double steps also. If anyone is making them yet...


----------



## LockStock&Arrow

Bump for a great thread...How are you guys that have the new muddy sticks liking them. Any new innovations with the lone wolfs...Lets keep the ideas flowing...


----------



## BigLurch75

I've read this thread & have only recently started using a loc-on & sticks. Plan to do the rope mod to my sticks. But, forgive me if this is a dumb question, what is UCR? I must be overlooking it in this thread, but I can't find what this means. 

BTW, this is an excellent thread.


----------



## sojourner

BigLurch75 said:


> I've read this thread & have only recently started using a loc-on & sticks. Plan to do the rope mod to my sticks. But, forgive me if this is a dumb question, what is UCR? I must be overlooking it in this thread, but I can't find what this means.
> 
> BTW, this is an excellent thread.


Search the forum for UCR climbing sticks

I have them an really like them. From this thread, it appears you can use UCR with a knot.

If you order UCRs, you can specify the length. I got mine extra long.


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## huntnfishnut

Sweetness


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## KevBlue18

These are sweet. Great Idea


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## LRJammer

letsgobowhuntin said:


> I just received my Lone Wolf sticks today from Cabeles. Has any ever tried great stuff foam in the ends of the lone wolf sticks? It seems like it would quiet the clinking sound if they bump each other.


Try the aerosol foam sold at hardware stores for filling cracks and voids. I'm sure a piece of tubing inserted onto the nozzle of the can and run down into the square tubing will get the job done.


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## Bowgod02

Sat down and put this together today to see how it would turn out. The stick is 36" instead of 32" and so far it's pretty light ( 1lb 6oz so far) . I printed out the duel step pic posted earlier in this thread for my template. Thanks for that pic!
I have the versa button and the two brackets that sits against the tree coming from lone wolf to finish this off. I don't have any lone wolf sticks yet, so I figured I would order those for this stick to see what they look like instead of making them. Rope is on the way as well. Here is a few pics for now...


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## yoda4x4

Bowgod02 said:


> Sat down and put this together today to see how it would turn out. The stick is 36" instead of 32" and so far it's pretty light ( 1lb 6oz so far) . I printed out the duel step pic posted earlier in this thread for my template. Thanks for that pic!
> I have the versa button and the two brackets that sits against the tree coming from lone wolf to finish this off. I don't have any lone wolf sticks yet, so I figured I would order those for this stick to see what they look like instead of making them. Rope is on the way as well. Here is a few pics for now...


Looks good. One thing I notice is that the top and bottom steps are not reversible. That could be troublesome when setting them up.

David

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## ruffme

LockStock&Arrow said:


> Haven't checked this thread since last fall when I received my rope....Was wondering if anyone is making the double steps for sale. I am 216 lbs and my single ones are bending where the step rests on the button. The aluminum literally is like clay.


I have them designed..I've been so dang busy have not had time to program the mill so they got bumped WAY down the ToDo list.


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## Bowgod02

yoda4x4 said:


> Looks good. One thing I notice is that the top and bottom steps are not reversible. That could be troublesome when setting them up.
> 
> David
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


I didn't know they were reversible on the lone wolf. This would be easy to do on mine if I just cut that channel around further and mill out half circles on the other edge. Thanks for the tip!


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## gypp

wow those look great! id love to see them with a cam cleat similar to the muddys! you planning on selling any?


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## hookinbull

Tagging! Good thread.


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## Bowgod02

gypp said:


> wow those look great! id love to see them with a cam cleat similar to the muddys! you planning on selling any?


Thanks, but Sorry I am not. I scrounged up enough material in the garage to probably make close to two sets only so it will be for personal use. I can't wait for the last couple parts to get here so I can give it a try. If it does work well, then I can start work on the others..I only wanted to make one for now to see if I need any changes.


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## mnormand

LockStock&Arrow said:


> I am 216 lbs and my single ones are bending where the step rests on the button. The aluminum literally is like clay.



I'm about 200, and slightly bent a step once about 5 years ago. At the time I called them and mentioned this, and the guy thought that was very odd and isolated. I still have and use that stick today, just kinda plan around the bent step that won't swivel all the way around. At first it concerned me, but after hundreds of uses, I realized I must have put excess pressure laterally rather than downward like normal. Always use this one near the ground, should change the step, easy enough, LOL. I now have like 5 sets of sticks, and slowly getting rid of everything else.


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## yoda4x4

Bowgod02 said:


> I didn't know they were reversible on the lone wolf. This would be easy to do on mine if I just cut that channel around further and mill out half circles on the other edge. Thanks for the tip!


Yeah, the steps can be swiveled so that each step can be placed on either the left or right side. It's nice because I'll look at the direction that I plan on putting the stand, and then swivel the steps so that they allow me to step off the top step onto the platform without any issues. Since I use 4 sticks, the first step is swiveled to the same side of the stand. Ex: stand is on the left, steps go - Stick 1 (LEFT/RIGHT/LEFT), Stick 2 (RIGHT/LEFT/RIGHT), Stick 3 (LEFT/RIGHT/LEFT), Stick 4 (RIGHT/LEFT/RIGHT).

David


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## Pittstate23

thats pretty sick


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## Bowgod02

I got ya now why they need to be reversible. Thanks for steering me right. Not owning sticks before I didn't realize they had to be reversible. I now have that fixed and also got it wrapped in gorilla tape. Just waiting for the last few parts to get here now to finish it up.


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## yoda4x4

Bowgod02 said:


> I got ya now why they need to be reversible. Thanks for steering me right. Not owning sticks before I didn't realize they had to be reversible. I now have that fixed and also got it wrapped in gorilla tape. Just waiting for the last few parts to get here now to finish it up.


Awesome job!

David

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## grnhd

Lots of good info here. Thanks to everyone. Subscribed!


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## Bowgod02

Well I have the first stick done except for the rope. Still waiting for it to get here. So this finished 36" stick weighs in at 1lb. 13 5/8oz. I can't wait to get the rope here so I can try it out to see how well it will work. If it works the way it is, I will make three more just like it to go along with my new Alpha.


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## cowboyup_again

Bowgod02 said:


> Well I have the first stick done except for the rope. Still waiting for it to get here. So this finished 36" stick weighs in at 1lb. 13 5/8oz. I can't wait to get the rope here so I can try it out to see how well it will work. If it works the way it is, I will make three more just like it to go along with my new Alpha.


How much did lonewolf charge you for the button and the braces? Do you think that this would be cost affective versus buying them from Lonewolf?


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## iluvgear1

Yes, the ability to flip the LW steps from side to side will let you lay out the steps so you can step off with your preferred foot. The way I look at it is that an LW stick/stand set up allows you to get into trees that cannot be scaled with a climber. When you use those twisted, snotty, gnarly trees, you know the ones that offer some cover, you often use a combination of the sticks and tree branches to get up the tree. Flipping the steps allows the easy integration of tree branches into your climb. To me using the LW system on a straight, limbless tree defeats the purpose.

Also, it was several years ago that I saw the first mention of the LW steps bending in a post by a guy who was mid 200's. I am just at 200 when I am geared up and notice very slight deformation on my steps. Nowhere near a safety concern yet, but I will keep an eye on it. All users, especially if you are fabbing imitations or are a bigger guy, please keep an eye on the condition of your steps.


----------



## Bowgod02

cowboyup_again said:


> How much did lonewolf charge you for the button and the braces? Do you think that this would be cost affective versus buying them from Lonewolf?


It's not really cost affective at all building them verse buying them unless you have access to free aluminum . It will be cheaper for me than buying them because I had the aluminum already in my garage. If you have to buy the aluminum then it would cost more than buying the sticks I think. I'll have about 106.00 in the four sticks by building them. That's for the parts from lone wolf. I like to tinker so that's what got me started in making them for my new alpha I just got. Plus I wanted to try and make them at 36" instead of the stock 32". The next set I will try and make the parts I got from lone wolf as well. I have an idea I would like to try on the next set.

Got my muddy rope in today so now I can try this stick out.


----------



## leftyhunter

Bump to find later. Looks awesome!  Happy Turkey Day to all!


----------



## BringEmNorth

Just got my Amsteel blue ( in dark olive green) in the mail the other day. Made locking brummel loops in the ends of them to fit over the versa button on the LW sticks. Can't wait to try these. How did everyone finish the end of the Amsteel so it doesn't fray? I'm guessing you can just burn it?


----------



## mtsrunner

BringEmNorth said:


> Just got my Amsteel blue ( in dark olive green) in the mail the other day. Made locking brummel loops in the ends of them to fit over the versa button on the LW sticks. Can't wait to try these. How did everyone finish the end of the Amsteel so it doesn't fray? I'm guessing you can just burn it?


Don't burn the ends. You can fish the tail back in to itself and make a nice little grab handle.


----------



## BringEmNorth

Nice. Thanks. I think i'm really gonna like this rope conversion.


----------



## BringEmNorth

Finished my LW sticks. Stealth Strips and 5/16 Amsteel blue rope.


----------



## DrenalinHntr

those look good. how did you make the loops?


----------



## mtsrunner

DrenalinHntr said:


> those look good. how did you make the loops?


It is a locked Brummel splice. Lots of how to videos on YouTube.


----------



## BringEmNorth

This is the tutorial I used. I didn't have any of the specialty tools to work with. I just took a pen apart and used the pointed end as the fid tool.


----------



## DrenalinHntr

gotcha. I usually use a good ol slipnot when i do stuff like this, but i may try this approach and compare strength.


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## BringEmNorth

DrenalinHntr said:


> gotcha. I usually use a good ol slipnot when i do stuff like this, but i may try this approach and compare strength.


Just keep in mind that certain knots reduce the working load strength of the rope up to 10%. Not a big deal if you have high strength rope but if your close to the limit on your rope a knot could put you in the danger zone 20' up.The locking Brummel does not reduce strength. I over killed it with the 5/16 Amsteel blue rope just to be safe. I think the break strength is over 13000lbs and working load is 1300. 1/4 Amsteel would have been fine but I thought it would be too small and make the knots cinch too tight. Glad I went with the 5/16 fits perfect.


----------



## yoda4x4

Where are you guys buying the Amsteel blue at the best price?

David


----------



## kawie23

I bought the regular Amsteel (it is a fairly light grey) at 

http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/samson-amsteel-rope.html?gclid=CK_AjdjJhbwCFYpaMgodGmgAnA

Otherwise westmarine looks to be having a sale on Amsteel Blue today with free shipping.


----------



## yoda4x4

Would 3/8" work or would it be too thick to do this?

David


----------



## BringEmNorth

yoda4x4 said:


> Would 3/8" work or would it be too thick to do this?
> 
> David


I would stick with the 5/16. I think I remember reading earlier in this thread that 3/8 was a little too big. I bought my rope from Master Pull because they had the olive green at a decent price. I tried to find it on their website and it seems like it's not there anymore. Maybe call them and see if they still have it. West Marine has good prices but I don't think they have olive green. Good luck.


----------



## yoda4x4

BringEmNorth said:


> I would stick with the 5/16. I think I remember reading earlier in this thread that 3/8 was a little too big. I bought my rope from Master Pull because they had the olive green at a decent price. I tried to find it on their website and it seems like it's not there anymore. Maybe call them and see if they still have it. West Marine has good prices but I don't think they have olive green. Good luck.


That's why I asked that. West Marine has 3/8" black on sale.

David


----------



## BringEmNorth

yoda4x4 said:


> That's why I asked that. West Marine has 3/8" black on sale.
> 
> David


Try Seattle Marine and fishing supply. They have good prices too and they have 5/16. Not sure what colors though.


----------



## mtsrunner

3/8 Amsteel is definitely too thick to fit under the Versa button. The 5/16" in my pic above is just right. It is black, but it actually looks more like a dark grey to me. 
Try Reddenmarine.com. Usually the best price I find. They have a 14% off coupon code right now. It is WOOHOO2014.

Here it is on sticks and stand.


----------



## mtsrunner

Correction...that is the gray 1/4" on there. Those pics were from last year. I switched after that season to the black 5/16" after that. Will get some pics if anyone wants.


----------



## BringEmNorth

mtsrunner said:


> Correction...that is the gray 1/4" on there. Those pics were from last year. I switched after that season to the black 5/16" after that. Will get some pics if anyone wants.


How do you like the rope on your stand? I just did my sticks for now but was thinking about doing my stands as well.


----------



## Richard932

Looks like I have another project at work only thing I will have to buy is the nut and bolt hardware and rope. Plenty of dropoff bar stock at work...


----------



## yoda4x4

How long are you guys cutting the rope?

David

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


----------



## BringEmNorth

yoda4x4 said:


> How long are you guys cutting the rope?
> 
> David
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


I cut mine at 8' to start. I ended up with 6' 7" after the locking brummel and burying the tail end about 3 inches for a small grab handle when throwing it around big trees.


----------



## mtsrunner

BringEmNorth said:


> This is the tutorial I used. I didn't have any of the specialty tools to work with. I just took a pen apart and used the pointed end as the fid tool.


I would rather taper the ends. I don't use any tape.


----------



## mtsrunner

BringEmNorth said:


> How do you like the rope on your stand? I just did my sticks for now but was thinking about doing my stands as well.


I don't think it works as well on the stand as it does on the sticks because the weight is further from the tree. I have gone back to the LW cam buckle straps for the stand and use the Amsteel just for the sticks. I only use one strap on the stand and use the camlock method that I first saw from the Hunting Beast video years ago.


----------



## mtsrunner

*locking Brummel*

I couldn't find a Youtube video that does the Brummel splice exactly like I do, but this one is pretty close. The guy in this video is making whoopie slings (very useful for hammocks). Just watch the first part where he makes the locking Brummel. We don't need the adjustable part of the whoopie in the second half of the video. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtJGTgpv4dc

I don't use the nail to separate the strands. I just use the knife for tapering and a piece of 16 ga copper wire folded over to make the openings and to fish the tail back through the core. 
The other thing is when you do the measurements of the 5/16" Amsteel, you don't need a 3" loop. I think I made mine 2", so that it fits tightly over the Versa button and can't come off too easily. You also need a longer bury with the thicker rope. 
...So, I would do the measurement like this:
1.5" taper plus 8" bury = 9.5" is your first mark 
add another 4" for a 2" loop, so 13.5" from the end is your second mark. Proceed just as the guy on the video does from here to make the locked Brummel.
Be careful, though. Rope splicing can be almost as addictive as bowhunting.


----------



## BigLurch75

For what it's worth... I called the guy at Cranford steps & he made me 5 ropes that will fit a 3' diameter tree. The total cost tmd was about $35. He was very helpful & answered all of my questions. Took about a week from time of order to arrival at my house. His ropes work nicely.


----------



## enkriss

mtsrunner said:


> Correction...that is the gray 1/4" on there. Those pics were from last year. I switched after that season to the black 5/16" after that. Will get some pics if anyone wants.


Was the 1/4" to small?


----------



## mtsrunner

enkriss said:


> Was the 1/4" to small?


No, the 1/4" is fine. It is not as easy to untie the knot, though. That is why I switched to the 5/16". You can save some money and use the 1/4", just know that if your hands are really cold, it could be a hassle to untie the knot.


----------



## mnormand

I have skinny ropes on my sticks, and always make 3-4 loops around the post before tying 2 half hitches with one hand. It doesn't put hard pressure on the knots like that, easy to undo as well with one hand.


----------



## enkriss

Ok....thanks!

I ordered some of the 5/16 black amsteel to make up these ropes...

I am trying to figure out other ways to silence the stand & sticks. I was thinking about filling the hollow tubes with expanding foam and maybe spraying some plastidip on my stand and sticks. Just don't want to add to much weight to my setup...


----------



## BringEmNorth

enkriss said:


> Ok....thanks!
> 
> I ordered some of the 5/16 black amsteel to make up these ropes...
> 
> I am trying to figure out other ways to silence the stand & sticks. I was thinking about filling the hollow tubes with expanding foam and maybe spraying some plastidip on my stand and sticks. Just don't want to add to much weight to my setup...


Try the Stealth Strips to deaden sound. They work really well. I couldn't believe how much they quieted my sticks down, very minimal addition of weight, and nicer to hold compared to bare metal in the cold.


----------



## mtsrunner

*Try Camoform*



enkriss said:


> Ok....thanks!
> 
> I ordered some of the 5/16 black amsteel to make up these ropes...
> 
> I am trying to figure out other ways to silence the stand & sticks. I was thinking about filling the hollow tubes with expanding foam and maybe spraying some plastidip on my stand and sticks. Just don't want to add to much weight to my setup...


Filling the tubes will help some. Don't bother with the plastidip unless you plan to strip the tubes and sand them first. I tried plastidip on another stand and it peeled too easily. The stealth strips are probably a good idea. I prefer Camoform by McNett because you can easily take it off, wash it and reuse it. I have a roll that I have used on my TC Encore that I have used for 5 years and it still works. I take it off and wash it after turkey season and then after deer season.


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## enkriss

mtsrunner said:


> Filling the tubes will help some. Don't bother with the plastidip unless you plan to strip the tubes and sand them first. I tried plastidip on another stand and it peeled too easily. The stealth strips are probably a good idea. I prefer Camoform by McNett because you can easily take it off, wash it and reuse it. I have a roll that I have used on my TC Encore that I have used for 5 years and it still works. I take it off and wash it after turkey season and then after deer season.


I think I am going to try the expanding foam thing but I don't think I am gonna mess with the plasti dip. I have some Camo cloth tape on my sticks now. Works ok takes the ting out pretty well. 

Gotta try something with the stand though.

This might not be the place for it. I have an older LW alpha. It has the old cutout in the platform in the stand. I have that grommet and had the wolf jaw thing or whatever it was also. But newer bows don't work.

Does anyone have any idea what I can do to mod it to use modern bows?


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## jmac0501

I've heard bad things(sticky gooey mess) about guys that have tried to fill them with foam. I've got stealth strips on mine and they work great. You can bang the sticks pretty had against each other, and they don't make much noise.

This thread has talked mostly about the ropes recently. I was mostly interested in the steps. I ordered 1 3/4" AL bar and finally got around to start cutting this last week. I wasn't excited about cutting the taper on my table saw, so I decided to come up with a method to utilize a jig to hold the step and position it to cut the taper on the miter saw.








The jig is a couple of 1 x 8's with a groove cut in the middle of it. There are t-bolts with knobs to tighten it down and a stop in one of the grooves to consistently position the step for cutting.
It wasn't perfect results, but clsoe enough for this project.








Then I set up the router table with an adjustable stop and got the grips added to the step profile.
















I just have to add the holes for mounting and get them painted and they're ready to go.
With the 1 3/4" bar, the bottom hole will end up being a through hole rather than a runout hole.


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## yoda4x4

I just bought this rope from eBay since the price was so cheap plus it's strong enough for this application

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270840153326?redirect=mobile

Can I put a Brummel splice loop in it? If I can't, I'll just use a figure 8 knot although the Brummel splice would look nicer.

Thanks!
David

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## mtsrunner

yoda4x4 said:


> I just bought this rope from eBay since the price was so cheap plus it's strong enough for this application
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/270840153326?redirect=mobile
> 
> Can I put a Brummel splice loop in it? If I can't, I'll just use a figure 8 knot although the Brummel splice would look nicer.
> 
> Thanks!
> David
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


I'm not familiar with that rope. Can't tell from the description if it is able to be spliced.


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## jmac0501

Finished the steps other than paint. I'm gonna love these this fall[/URL
[URL=http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/jmac0501/media/Mobile%20Uploads/03CD895A-B09A-46B6-BBAE-BABA50160596.jpg.html]


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## jmac0501




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## fairchaser99

ttt


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## maximus4444

jmac0501 said:


>


JMac, those look awesome! Are you still planning on painting the steps?


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## jmac0501

I did get them painted. Just forgot to pust them. I used a spray can of spray on Bedliner for them. I'm very happy witht he way they turned out.








All stacked up.








They stack close enough that the other stuff that I strap onto my stand works well with them for transport. I only put them on the middle step for of each stick as that's where I stand when putting the next stick in place. I used them to take down a stand this spring and they are a definate improvement over stnading on one foot for an extended amount of time.


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## maximus4444

jmac0501 said:


> I did get them painted. Just forgot to pust them. I used a spray can of spray on Bedliner for them. I'm very happy witht he way they turned out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All stacked up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They stack close enough that the other stuff that I strap onto my stand works well with them for transport. I only put them on the middle step for of each stick as that's where I stand when putting the next stick in place. I used them to take down a stand this spring and they are a definate improvement over stnading on one foot for an extended amount of time.


Cool. I just got all the materials that I need to build my own climbing stick. I was curious about the painting. I had read, either on this thread or another, that painting aluminum can be difficult. Did you have to do anything to the aluminum in order to get the coat you were wanting?

Also, the bedliner spray... is it good for grip? If it's wet out, will it still provide some "stick" for my boots to grab a hold of?


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## nick060200

is there anyone willing to make me one step? you dont have to paint it or anything and i would pay for material/shipping and your time. i dont have the tools to make one and i'd like a double sided step for my very top stick closest to the stand.
please PM me if anyone could help out.
thanks


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## nick060200

i have extra rope that i bought a while back in this thread that works for these sticks, i think 8mm. it fits great behind the versa button. i have been using it for over a year now. i could trade you for the step.


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## LockStock&Arrow

I am with nick060200, If anyone is willing to make me some steps for 4 sticks I would pay for material/shipping and your time as well. A PM if you can would be great.


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## LockStock&Arrow

Bump for someone making me some steps...


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## f7 666

Awsome thread !


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## bigasports

Marked


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## buckeyboy

I have a couple of sets of lone wolf sticks I just bought some leverage sticks the short ones they are actually very nice , except the buckle heavy and noisy and the hook on the end , so I did the rope and pursic knot Mod 
OMG how easy and quiet, Going to do all the lone wolfs too, I also added a DIY versa button to the leverage sticks here a pix what do you guys think.. LOL besides the color of the rope


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## Dan7168

did rope mod today and it is simple and works great! Thank You!


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## buckeyboy

Dan7168 said:


> did rope mod today and it is simple and works great! Thank You!


yea the rope is super easy and quiet... cool


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## shortb

buckeyboy said:


> I have a couple of sets of lone wolf sticks I just bought some leverage sticks the short ones they are actually very nice , except the buckle heavy and noisy and the hook on the end , so I did the rope and pursic knot Mod
> OMG how easy and quiet, Going to do all the lone wolfs too, I also added a DIY versa button to the leverage sticks here a pix what do you guys think.. LOL besides the color of the rope


Just started to do this on my leverage sticks. How are you stacking them now with the versa button? Did u drill holes so the bolt heads seat into the next stick when stacked?


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## grantcs

mtsrunner said:


> Don't burn the ends. You can fish the tail back in to itself and make a nice little grab handle.
> View attachment 1853958


Do you have a link to a video that shows how to fish the tail back into itself? Thanks!


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## Jpollet

This saved me some big money


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## cbowie

Hey mtsrunner. I would also be interested in how you do this. There's not much if any information on how to fish the tale back into itself. 
Thanks!


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## toypar

If you guy was starting out with nothing what size tubing would you use? Thanks


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## enkriss

cbowie said:


> Hey mtsrunner. I would also be interested in how you do this. There's not much if any information on how to fish the tale back into itself.
> Thanks!


http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice Instructions/DblBrd_C1_Back Splice_AUG2012_WEB.pdf


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## enkriss

Anyone else make the double step for the lone wolf sticks or Find a double step that would fit the lone wolf sticks?


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## yoda4x4

enkriss said:


> Anyone else make the double step for the lone wolf sticks or Find a double step that would fit the lone wolf sticks?


I have a friend who can do it on a CNC machine, but he would need a 10-20 piece run to make it worth his while.

David


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## mhill

Had a buddy whip some of these up on a CNC.


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## UncleBoo

mhill said:


> Had a buddy whip some of these up on a CNC.
> 
> View attachment 3120602
> 
> View attachment 3120618


That's pretty sweet!


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## mhill

UncleBoo said:


> That's pretty sweet!


Thanks man. He's a heck of a machinist. I told him what I wanted showed him a pic of the OPs and we talked about hiw to remove more material to lighten them a little more. He mocked one up and my initial measurements were off a little. I gave him a spare stick to measure what he needed and we agreed to encapsulate the bolt head that locks them in place to add strength. 

I'm getting ready to throw some paint on them.


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## Rawhide

Tagged


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## MichBowhunter12

How long is the cut out steps, looking to buy some soon and trying to figure out how much I need.

Is there anyone making these steps yet to sell, if so please pm me.


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## bassinbob

bumped


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## ShaneC

If you go to the DIY sportsman he has a tutorial on how he built his own sticks. Pretty good video.

http://diy-sportsman.com/


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## meatmissile

yoda4x4 said:


> I have a friend who can do it on a CNC machine, but he would need a 10-20 piece run to make it worth his while.
> 
> David


I would be up for ordering 10 atleast, for my self. 

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## devinesZ

Depending on the price I would order 10 as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fauxfly

tagged...


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## gutshotem

yoda4x4 said:


> I have a friend who can do it on a CNC machine, but he would need a 10-20 piece run to make it worth his while.
> 
> David


I realize this post is a few yrs old but if he does a run, like some others have inquired, please shoot me a pm.


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## Jason_Haught

Really cool ideas

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Njdeerhunter76

gutshotem said:


> yoda4x4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a friend who can do it on a CNC machine, but he would need a 10-20 piece run to make it worth his while.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> I realize this post is a few yrs old but if he does a run, like some others have inquired, please shoot me a pm.
Click to expand...

Me too! I would be in for 12


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## Holo

Can someone tell me what kind of bolt hardware to use to attach a Lone Wolf Versa button?

Thank you,


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## mark_lee

Really like how you implemented the rope, seems way easier than using the straps.


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## Strongmedicine

nice and cheaper than those dern beast sticks


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