# Argue with me



## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

Freestyle is shoot what ya brung and the vanes don't need to match.

Nothing is really illegal in FS:wink:


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

Brown Hornet said:


> Freestyle is shoot what ya brung and the vanes don't need to match.
> 
> Nothing is really illegal in FS:wink:


Thanks for the info.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Wait.. you mean to tell me my fletching has to be all the same color for BHFS? :noidea: :mg: I can see identical, but color is included in that description? :noidea:


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

I'm hoping this is just a real dumb guy question.

I'm assuming by identical vanes, they pretty much mean that you can't mix and match sizes, lengths, profiles, etc. (You know, not allowed to use 1 1/2 inch blazers for the 80 and, say, 4 inch low profiles for the bunnies. But what about colors?

Often I'll fletch my arrows as follows:

Assume I'm using, say, green and yellow vanes - same style, same size, etc. on a dozen shafts, same make, style, colors, etc. I'll fletch 1/2 dozen with yellow as the cock feather and the other 1/2 dozen with green as the cock feather. 

From an NFAA point of view, in the Bowhunter Freestyle division, would I be able to use arrows from both half dozens together (which I have often done with no complaints)? 

If the answer is "no", then this *is *a pretty goofy rule.


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

There is no mention of color, therefore, as director for VA, I would rule that color or mixing of colors is the sole option of the archer.

I have never heard of a protest on arrows with different color vanes, nocks, or even shafts, such as X7 black or X7 cobalt with the taper cut off and unibushings installed.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

From the NFAA rulebook for Bowhunter Freestyle: *All arrows shall be identical in size, length, weight and fletching with allowances for wear and tear.*

As usual, this is open to interpretation but common sense tells me this refers to fletching length, not color. However, this could be the first time I'm wrong......this year. :wink:


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## FS560 (May 22, 2002)

It probably would be extended to height of the fletch also.

However, if someone wants to change the trajectory curve, cheating with different point weights would be harder to detect. Also harder to keep track of with different color nocks or fletch.

But I would still rule that different nock, fletch, and shaft color is shooter optional.


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

I've been told that the arrows have to match for a given target, to facilitate scoring. Changing arrows for a different target was described as legal.

Again for scoring purposes I believe the rule quoted above intends for a shooter to have matching arrows on any one given target. At least that makes sense to me.

Dave


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

My question pertained only to COLOR. I have some identical arrows that were re-fletched and the colors don't match. Identical everything else. I just needed to know whether or not I need to re-fetch them all to match for a tournament.


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## Brown Hornet (Aug 8, 2002)

supernova said:


> My question pertained only to COLOR. I have some identical arrows that were re-fletched and the colors don't match. Identical everything else. I just needed to know whether or not I need to re-fetch them all to match for a tournament.


In OPEN...FS....Shoot What Ya Brung....

it doesn't matter....


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

> All arrows shall be identical..........and fletching......


Seems to me that identical means identical, i.e. the fletching schemes used during a round need to be the same for all arrows used. Doesn't mean the fletching all needs to be 1 color, but I would contend that if you fletch w/ a green cock vane and 2 yellow hen vanes, then you could not also mix and match arrows during shooting that have a yellow cock vane and 2 green hen vanes since that would no longer be "identical". Much easier to identify for personal reasons which arrow(s) have the light points and which the heavy points if you can vary the fletch colors/schemes - even though the point differences would be illegal, since again, not "identical". Hence I would fathom the rationale for the fletching to also be identical.

Just an fyi, but I believe FITA/NAA does require all arrows shot during an end to be identical fletch (color scheme) and nocks.

As Hornet noted, not a requirement in the FS Division - shoot what ya brung. More fun confusing the arrow caller during outdoor events if you throw in a few different colored vanes and nock combinations, lol !

Just my opinion, I suggest contacting your State Director or Councilman just to be safe. Possibly something even already decided on in an earlier RIC ruling that is not in "The Book" itself. Brteste here on AT should be able to assist as well if you bring this question to his attention, even if he is a troublemaker :wink::tongue:!

>>-------->


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

CHPro said:


> Just an fyi, but I believe FITA/NAA does require all arrows shot during an end to be identical fletch (color scheme) and nocks.
> 
> As Hornet noted, not a requirement in the FS Division - shoot what ya brung. More fun confusing the arrow caller during outdoor events if you throw in a few different colored vanes and nock combinations, lol !
> 
> ...


Jeff:

I wouldn't be having this discussion if my "arrow fletcher" would have fletched all my arrows correctly the first time (I won't mention any names) :tongue: We had a slight problem with the glue on the first batch

Bruce told me that in NAA they all needed to be the same.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

At my first NFAA's in Kansas this perticular rule came up and I remember the judge at the time said that they had to be same "kind" colour didn't matter now that was a while ago but I still remember it.


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## Spotshooter2 (Oct 23, 2003)

For BHFS, the fletchings have to be the same . This means that if you use 2 orange and one black for the cock vane then all arrows must match this configuration , along with nock type, vane lengths . For any FS division , as has already be said, shoot what ya brung.


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## IGluIt4U (Sep 22, 2004)

Spotshooter2 said:


> For BHFS, the fletchings have to be the same . This means that if you use 2 orange and one black for the cock vane then all arrows must match this configuration , along with nock type, vane lengths . For any FS division , as has already be said, shoot what ya brung.


Thanks for clarifying.. tho I've shot FS, I have a BHFS setup and sometimes alternate my colors on my shafts to use up all the vanes when I fletch 3 fletch.. better make sure I sort a batch the same if I shoot that bow.. :lol: :wink:


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

My arrow fletcher is instructed to fletch all 3 vanes/feathers the same color, less confusing when I -- oops, I mean when they -- are fletching my arrows.  Easier to buy bulk of one color as well, lol .

Supernova, Bruce is correct on the NAA issue, and I would still contend that "identical" means all the same color scheme, not just size or type of fletch, for the NFAA as well. I think you ought to fire your arrow fletcher, but if its the same one who you'll be counting on taking care of you in your old age you may want to reconsider :tongue:! Besides, if you fire your arrow fletcher it just means you'll have to do the job yourself :wink:!

>>------>


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

CHPro said:


> Besides, if you fire your arrow fletcher it just means you'll have to do the job yourself :wink:!
> >>------>


I'm sure he'd prefer that.


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## rudeman (Jan 25, 2006)

*Fletching Colors*

So the concensus is . . . there isn't one

I'll pose the question to my own state guys (though I kinda hesitate to because no one has said anything about it yet!!)


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

CHPro said:


> Supernova, Bruce is correct on the NAA issue, and I would still contend that "identical" means all the same color scheme, not just size or type of fletch, for the NFAA as well.


The rules for FSU and FSL do not address fletching. Only the Barebow and Bowhunter class rules use the term 'identical'. So, as was stated before, shoot what you bring for NFAA FSU and FSL.


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

IGluIt4U said:


> Thanks for clarifying.. tho I've shot FS, I have a BHFS setup and sometimes alternate my colors on my shafts to use up all the vanes when I fletch 3 fletch.. better make sure I sort a batch the same if I shoot that bow.. :lol: :wink:


Sticky, that's great you're concerned about what you use on your BHFS set-up...but if someone protested an arrow for having a different color combination...I would have to tell them to pound sand...:wink:


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## Dave T (Mar 24, 2004)

I just spent a couple minutes looking through my copy of the NFAA Constitution & By-Laws. In every section where it is mentioned, the exact same wording is used:

All arrows shall be identical in length, weight, diameter and fletching with allowance for wear and tear.

The only sections where it doesn't appear are FS and FSL. Can anyone give me a logical argument/explanation for why the same rule wouldn't apply to those styles as all the rest?

It appears as almost an oversight or printing error on the part of NFAA which some seem to grab onto as the holy grail. I don't get it? Why in the (expletive deleted) wouldn't you want all your arrows to be the same?

Dave


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## mdbowhunter (Oct 22, 2002)

Dave T said:


> I just spent a couple minutes looking through my copy of the NFAA Constitution & By-Laws. In every section where it is mentioned, the exact same wording is used:
> 
> All arrows shall be identical in length, weight, diameter and fletching with allowance for wear and tear.
> 
> ...


Yep. Noticed the same thing before I made my previous response. Got no idea.  You could use different fletching lengths for various distances...if you desire...and still be legal.


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## swerve (Jun 5, 2005)

No I believe that it was deliberately done that way to keep the class as open as possible with very little if any equipment restrictions. Shoot what you brung as long as your under 280 fps your good to go.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Not positive Dave, but I would guess the rules apply to the Barebow and Bowhunter classes only because it would be relatively easy to make use of different size fletching for different distances or, heaven forbid, cheat and use different point weights and then use different fletch colors so the archer could more easily keep the different weight arrows separate. Barebow and Bowhunter classes are more restrictive (i.e. stringwalking, or finger in contact with arrow, or limited number of pins, etc.). FS and FSL have no restrictions, could shoot different size arrows, different weight arrows, etc., instead of moving your sight and it would all be legal. But since FS and FSL let you move your sight and pretty much everything else, no reason to have any arrow limits on the books like you would for the other divisions. Rarely find any FS or FSL archers shooting multiple color fletching anyway, too confusing. However, I for example have used different arrows with different fletching in the past for shooting a couple longer distance targets (i.e. the 101yd at Redding) during a round. Legal in my division, couldn't do it in BHFS for example though. Hence, I think the reason there is a difference between the divisions in terms of arrow restrictions.

Just my opinion..........

>>-------->


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## Joe Barbieur (Jul 31, 2002)

Here is my take on it, and it is also how I would rule in a tournament. The arrows as above-mentioned would have to be all of the same fletching, with said fletching to be identical. That means if you have two hen feathers of green, and a cock feather of red, then they all have to be the same. I would even go farther to say all the nocks have to be of the same color. Each arrow has to be the same length, with allowances made for different dozens, IE a small variance for an arrow that may have been cut from a different batch.


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

Joe Barbieur said:


> Here is my take on it, and it is also how I would rule in a tournament. The arrows as above-mentioned would have to be all of the same fletching, with said fletching to be identical. That means if you have two hen feathers of green, and a cock feather of red, then they all have to be the same. I would even go farther to say all the nocks have to be of the same color. Each arrow has to be the same length, with allowances made for different dozens, IE a small variance for an arrow that may have been cut from a different batch.


Ok - Now we have two different state directors saying different things. Joe, can you show me in the rule book, for FREESTYLE only where this is mentioned.

I'm not saying you are wrong, nor am I trying to be difficult, I just want a definite answer:wink:

Maybe I should start a poll and go by majority rules:set1_rolf2:


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## Joe Barbieur (Jul 31, 2002)

Nova, sorry I was looking at the BH part. In freestyle it does not matter what you shoot for arrows. You can have any mix and match you want.


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Rick, I'm sure Joe is referring to how he would rule for the non-FS and non-FSL classes where references to "identical" arrows is spelled out. As already noted and pretty much agreed on, FS and FSL can shoot what they brung - no limitations - and this includes arrows. No worries as long as you're shooting FS. Final answer !

>>------>


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

CHPro said:


> Rick, I'm sure Joe is referring to how he would rule for the non-FS and non-FSL classes where references to "identical" arrows is spelled out. As already noted and pretty much agreed on, FS and FSL can shoot what they brung - no limitations - and this includes arrows. No worries as long as you're shooting FS. Final answer !
> 
> >>------>


Yep - Joe said the same thing.:thumbs_up I guess I should have just listened to Hornet in the first place


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## JAG (May 23, 2006)

Lord.... all this bickering... if there's so much trouble with rules, not real sure i want to try this style anymore..


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

JAG said:


> Lord.... all this bickering... if there's so much trouble with rules, not real sure i want to try this style anymore..


Jag - One of my good friends always tells me "Shut up and shoot":wink: You'll be shooting in KS and you'll like it..............Or else


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## JAG (May 23, 2006)

supernova said:


> Jag - One of my good friends always tells me "Shut up and shoot":wink: You'll be shooting in KS and you'll like it..............Or else


yes sir.


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## blindbat (Jul 15, 2002)

Supernova
Your fletcher is brilliant-the line nazi has spoken-follow his advice and have CHP buy your fletcher a triple bananas foster.

BB


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

blindbat said:


> Supernova
> Your fletcher is brilliant-the line nazi has spoken-follow his advice and have CHP buy your fletcher a triple bananas foster.
> 
> BB


It's about time you found this forum You heard him Jeff, give the man a triple bananas foster..........................................If he beats you in Iowa:wink:


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Heck SuperN, the triple bananas foster is already a given since he whined enough to get me to spot him something like a bajillion pints for the weekend ! And now that I know for sure who your arrow fletcher is I more fully understand why all your arrows are fletched non-matching colors, lol :tongue:!

>>------->


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## supernova (Oct 3, 2005)

CHPro said:


> Heck SuperN, the triple bananas foster is already a given since he whined enough to get me to spot him something like a bajillion pints for the weekend ! And now that I know for sure who your arrow fletcher is I more fully understand why all your arrows are fletched non-matching colors, lol :tongue:!
> 
> >>------->


You have it much worse than I do. I let him pick out the color of my fletchings..........You let him buy your clothes! So will you be wearing the lime green or hot pink this weekend??:tongue:


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## CHPro (May 21, 2002)

Neither.......do have my neon "highway crew" yellow laundered, pressed and ready to wear on Sat. Works especially well at the IA ProAm because it blends in with the line judges' attire. You wouldn't believe how many sundaes I was able to purchase with the $$ I collected making line calls last year :tongue::wink:

>>------>


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## AKDoug (Aug 27, 2003)

> For BHFS, the fletchings have to be the same . This means that if you use 2 orange and one black for the cock vane then all arrows must match this configuration , along with nock type, vane lengths . For any FS division , as has already be said, shoot what ya brung.


Actually, not true. At Outdoor Nationals (I will leave out names) a protest was filed in BHFS in regards to vane colors. One shooter had 6 arrows with one color blazer vanes on them and another 6 with different colors on them. Otherwise the vane size and the rest of the arrows were identical. It was ruled in favor of the shooter that it didn't violate the rules. However, that shooter did change all his vanes to the same color for the next day.


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## Bobmuley (Jan 14, 2004)

FS560 said:


> There is no mention of color, therefore, as director for VA, I would rule that color or mixing of colors is the sole option of the archer.


I know that was a ruling of the CSAA tourney director as well.


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