# Longbow arrow shelf



## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

I have been having some problems with arrow flight so I decided to go back and retune the bow. After reading OL Adcocks website on tuning and especially on the subject of arrow rest I am wondering if that is part of my fishtailing problem. He sugest using velcro as a rug and installing a arrow point of contact directly inline with the smallest portion of the grip. 

OL Adcock 

My bow shelf is flat and I was thinking this might be a good way to set it up. At present I just have a rug on the flat shelf. What do you all think about some elevation at the point of arrow contact? And what is the best way to do this?....thanks...chuck


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Chuck -

Where arrow contact is concerned, less is always more. The standard trick is a small dowel or match stick under the rug. You might also consider one under the strike plate, but that will almost certainly require retuning as it would now want a softer shaft.

Viper1 out.


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## Tom McAndrew (Jan 26, 2007)

I cut a sliver off from an old limb saver and placed that under my rug.It's kinduv a soft takeoff and works for me.I kept it under 1/8" just incase I ever wanted to compete with it,I think thats the limit in some case's.....good luck

PS I use sealskin at this time


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Viper1 If I put one under the strike plate would that be placed where the strike plate meets the arrow shelf? I have been having problems with arrow flight I am open to an suggestions. My bow is 60# by marking (never been checked) I have a 26 1/2" draw my arrows are cut to 27 1/4". The bow is close to center shot (never checked it exactly) the arrow charts I have been to (Easton 2006, current easton, kellys) all recommend a 2016 or 1916. My 2016 hit the target tail left about an 1". I dont have any 1916's yet to try. Any suggestions are welcomed and thanks for the reply...chuck


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Tom 1/8" is what I was thinking about. Do you glue the piece to the shelf and what glue makes it easy to repair.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Chuck -

Not knowing the type of bow it makes guessing a little tricky. If it's a straight grip longbow, the exact placement of the "bump" may not be too critical. With a recurve, the "bump" or rest should be over the deepest part of the grip to reduce the effects of torque. In my experience, if you're off by a little, it's not the end of the world.

Also, my gut tells me that the arrows you're shooting are a tade weak, that would agree with the arrow nock left kick. The "bump" under the strike plate may solve that problem. Next step up would be an 2018. Also, if you're using vety large feathers, there could be some interference going on. Hard to tell from here.

Viper1 out.


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Viper1 thanks for that information. The bow is a longbow with a pistol type grip. So I would probably want to set it up as the recurve that you mentioned. The feathers that I use are standard parabolic fletch in right helical....thanks for the info I some things to try now...chuck


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## Tom McAndrew (Jan 26, 2007)

I use contact cement,put a light coat on both surface's let dry and then stick it together.Ya only get 1 shot at puutin it in the right place or you,ll hafta rub off all the clue reclean it at try again.Once it makes "contact" it's stuck.I put the sliver on first obviously LOL and then put a light coat over it and the shelf area where the rug of in my case seal skin is gonna go.I'd cut what ever your gonna use first and trim it to fit like I said ya get 1 chance at it.

Good luck

PS I also shoot cock in towards the riser,if it's spined properly it really doesn,t matter but it seems to me I get better flight this way.I've even gotten away with a 4" vane off the shelf that way.Only messed with it alittle bit but my BH,s flew okay,I prefer feathers


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## WoolyWelsh (Sep 9, 2006)

*Some sketches may help?*



Chuck Jones said:


> I have been having some problems with arrow flight so I decided to go back and retune the bow. After reading OL Adcocks website on tuning and especially on the subject of arrow rest I am wondering if that is part of my fishtailing problem. He sugest using velcro as a rug and installing a arrow point of contact directly inline with the smallest portion of the grip.
> 
> OL Adcock
> 
> My bow shelf is flat and I was thinking this might be a good way to set it up. At present I just have a rug on the flat shelf. What do you all think about some elevation at the point of arrow contact? And what is the best way to do this?....thanks...chuck


CJ - Here's a suggestion via some pictures. I do not know how deep your grip is, but the convention is to mount a "rest" directly above the centre-line pivot point of your grip. 

I am experimenting with the height & width of the rest AND the actual depth of the shelf itself. I'm attempting to size the rest and the shelf just so, so that the fletching does not sweep across it during the slight(?) fishtailing.

As far as spine goes....the charts are a starting point, and that's all. Good luck to you.


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## rjtfroggy (Dec 5, 2006)

I have a bw long bow and put the wooden match stick about 3/16-1/4 out put on with fletch tite and try it if it works then cover with a piece of thin leather that you put down with contact cement. mine has been on for at least 10 years and haven't had to change yet.
GOOD LUCK but only you can experiment with it until you have it right to your liking.


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## TALON (Mar 20, 2006)

Just a guess, but you probably have fletch intereference, shoot cock feather-in, or rotate your nock. I use velcro on several of my bows, and find it a very good/durable rest.


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Tom, by using contact cement nothing is ever going to move. What happens if you want to replace the material used. How hard is it to remove? I had never thought about "cock feather in towards the riser" I guess that is because I was told in the beginning cock feather should be out. However, with a elevated rest the cock feather flies between the prongs. Lots to learn and try...thanks


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

WollyWelsh--nice picture illustrating "the bump" that I have just found out about. What sizes have you expiermented with. My first thought was 1/8" dowel. I am just wondering if a square surface would be better. More or less arrow contact! My arrow shelf is less than 1/4" at the point shown in your drawing. My shaft just fits on the shelf.


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Talon I have never considered shooting cock feather in as stated above. I have always aligned the two hen feathers to be centered against the riser. Something to try..thanks


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## Tradbow Guy (Feb 9, 2007)

Easton shaft charts are a complete joke. In fact, all shaft charts i've used for trad bows have been a joke. If I was you i'd ask the masses who are shooting 60lb bows what their arrows of choice are, then, i'd buy a single shaft of a few different kinds, some a little weaker some a little stronger, and see which one works out.


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## TALON (Mar 20, 2006)

Chuck - for glueing on rests, barge cement is the best I've found, as it's easy to remove. You might want to find a site that shows 'archers paradox', because the arrow really 'bends' around the riser, and for small shelves like yours, a weaker shaft than normal may well be required to get perfect flight.


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## WoolyWelsh (Sep 9, 2006)

*Updated pictures*



Chuck Jones said:


> WollyWelsh--nice picture illustrating "the bump" that I have just found out about. What sizes have you expiermented with. My first thought was 1/8" dowel. I am just wondering if a square surface would be better. More or less arrow contact! My arrow shelf is less than 1/4" at the point shown in your drawing. My shaft just fits on the shelf.


Thanks, CJ. Here's a revised sketch. The idea is to remove material from the left side of the shelf, and make the raised bump "tall enough" so that the fletching has nothing to strike, as it paradoxes across the shelf.

How tall the bump is would be determined by how far the fletching extends outwards from the arrow shaft. (I'm still referring to the 4 o'clock fletch) My fletch extends about 11/16" from the centre of the arrow shaft, so the bump height might come in at 3/4". I'd go with a rounded profile as opposed to a square hump.


This is all just an idea for now...I'm still working on that bloody spine thing.


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## CAL-TRAD (Feb 19, 2007)

i use a piece of tandy leather that is 1/4" thick, also shoot cock vane in 

matt:BrownBear:


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## m60gunner (Mar 15, 2003)

I use Barge Cement for glueing rest material to bow. It will come off bow. Can be had on 3rivers website. A tube lasts a long time. 
I put a piece of round toothpick under the rest material like in drawing in reply. Somewhere I read that changing the position of the toothpick affects how the arrow will fly. 
Arrow charts are a start only and there seems to be a lot of confusion. I find for my 55lb recurve and 55lb R/D longbow at 281/2 in. the chart works. For my straight end longbow with not much shelf I go 10lbs lighter. That is me and what works for me!!
Good shooting, Tom


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Barge cement sounds like something I need in my kit and maybe some duco to. Yea, my shelf is pretty small. The shelf is just a little bigger than a 2016. I have tried the toothpick and it makes little difference on arrow flight with a 2016. I have tried to put together a arrow test kit. I would like to try 1916's, 2018's, and 2115's. The three sizes have been suggested in other post. I tried to get some but around here the shops only stock carbon but will order anything I want in dozen quanties. That wont do me anygood. One of the shops that I went to yesterday let me shoot some woodies that the owner uses on a 56 # recurve. They shot very nice out of my bow. I might try those. Another shop has some al arrows but kinda scared to go there. I was looking for a springy rest some time back and I could get it on the internet for about 12 dollars. This shop wanted 30 dollars for the basic rest. Another fella was looking for whisper biscuit that sold for 49 dollars and that shop sold it for 80 dollars. I will keep looking maybe I can find being sold on ebay. Dont want to spend a fortune to try different arrows....chuck


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

For what it worth  I personally use just a small strip of leather on my shelf as well as the strike window to produce the raised portion instead of a piece of wood as I feel its just too unforgiving and hard, a piece of leather will somewhat form to the arrow after awhile and make for a secure holder.Over these two pieces I cover them with thin leather glued on with contact cement. I also like to leave a small gap between the shelf and window for one of the hen fletches to fly thru.


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Tpoof--Would the leather you use be around 7-8 oz leather. It would seem anything smaller when the arrow formed its groove it would be level with the rest again. This is not the first time I have heard leaving a groove for the hen feather to fly thru....thanks..chuck


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

I use a stiffer leather for the bumps(strips) and a thin leather for the covering.
not sure what weight it is. The bumps are about 3/8" long each and about 1/8"
square thick, my covering is very thin almost like thick paper.
After thousands of shots yes the leather does groove a bit but still is enough to give good flight, I like the grooving.


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## longerbow66 (Feb 1, 2006)

Viper1 said:


> Chuck -
> 
> Where arrow contact is concerned, less is always more. The standard trick is a small dowel or match stick under the rug. You might also consider one under the strike plate, but that will almost certainly require retuning as it would now want a softer shaft.
> 
> Viper1 out.


Yep that's what I use and love it! Good ole match stick under my leather rug!


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## WoolyWelsh (Sep 9, 2006)

*Step back to square one?*



Chuck Jones said:


> (partial quote).... Yea, my shelf is pretty small. The shelf is just a little bigger than a 2016. I have tried the toothpick and it makes little difference on arrow flight with a 2016. I have tried to put together a arrow test kit. I would like to try 1916's, 2018's, and 2115's. The three sizes have been suggested in other post....*One of the shops that I went to yesterday let me shoot some woodies that the owner uses on a 56 # recurve. They shot very nice out of my bow. * I might try those...Dont want to spend a fortune to try different arrows....chuck



Chuck, when using these woodies that shot very nice out of your bow, how was the shelf/riser configured on your longbow at that time? Were you shooting off your original flat shelf? What about the quality of the arrow nock fit and fletching height of those woodies?

Based on your information, it sounds like a spine issue. Your shelf is a little bigger than a 2016. That's + 5/16ths! Buying three-four sets of 12 arrows with different spines is too expensive. There are some vendors that sell aluminiums in groups of six. 

I've played around with the "raised bump" on my flat shelf and here's what I've found. Shooting with a cant, occasionally the arrow shaft will fall off during the draw. Sometimes I hear a chatter during the draw; it's the shaft bouncing against the riser.

This is not acceptable for hunting situations. I know this arrow shaft noise is related to form. Given my chronic buck-fever, I can see a deer thinking, "What is this idiot doing, playing bongoes with his bow & arrow?"

I'm now going to experiment with a Bear Weather Rest. It gets the arrow shaft off the shelf, and the little "upsweep" of the plastic arm may help keep the arrow from falling off.

However, this stick-on rest will also move my arrow to the left somewhat, and this will have some effect on the proper arrow spine because the riser is cut less than centre to begin with.

I mention this because when you add material to the riser and it moves your arrow to the left (right-hand archer), you have to weaken your arrow spine. _If this is not correct, then please, someone step in and speak up!_

This is tough...is it spine or is it fletching contact or a combination of both? With your narrow shelf and the correct spine, your troubles may be over.


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## Tom McAndrew (Jan 26, 2007)

Yes adding material to the side plate requires a weaker spine,I added some to mine because I wanted to use a BH of my own making and that wieght tip showed weak.Padding the side moved me back over on center.

Isn,t "barge"cement a brand name of contact cement that is also sometimes called rubber cement? Anyway it comes off easily when your ready to do so and won,t mess up the finish on your bow.

I used a sliver of limbsaver for my side bump too kinduv like a plunger LOL If I want to shoot real light tips I can take that off and put on a shaved pc of cordorva to acount for the extra stiffness


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## TALON (Mar 20, 2006)

Chuck - by adding [weakens] or lessening [increases] point weight, you can use your existing arrows to find if you require a weaker/stiffer spine. Also, by adding thicker material to the sight window, you'll need a weaker spine, and visa-versa. The small shelf is more critical of correctly spined arrows. P/S, the 2115 and 2018 [and 2213] have about the same spine, so you need only 1 of them for a test kit.


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## Vinyari (Feb 10, 2007)

Holy [email protected]*

I never knew traditional was going to be so technical, LOL

isn't that we most of us lean away from Compound????

Randy


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## oliverstacy (Jul 10, 2006)

*Longbow with radius shelf*

I have a Martin Savannah and was wondeing where I need to place the small piece under the striker plate. Also do I want to have it exactly on top the the radius.

See pictures...










Also










Just wondering, I don't want to sick this leather pad on the wrong place.

Thanks,

Josh


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## Chuck Jones (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks guys I have a lot of work to do and test some different combinations. And I thought the longbow would be easy...chuck


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

Oliverstacy, This is my first try at this photoshop editing so don't laugh too loud. lol
This is the way that I set up my rests, the thin pieces are the bumps, matchstick, leather, whatever, then covered with thin leather.

Just an example of 1 way to do it
Cheers!


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## oliverstacy (Jul 10, 2006)

*Thanks Tpoof*

Thanks for the drawing (trust me I wouldn't laugh)...but my leather plate isn't that big. I'm going to take a picture of it later tonight with it next to the bow so I can be more specific. If I need to I can by a larger piece of material and cover the are that you have indicated. 

Quick question...why do you want to place the small thin piece that close to the rear of the bow window? 

Other question what do you use for silencers on your strings?


Thanks,

Josh


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## TALON (Mar 20, 2006)

oliverstacy: on my Savannah, I put a small piece of leather lace, right on the hi-point [that stripe in the riser], then cover it with my rest material. Many suggest putting it directly above the deepest part of the grip, and I do on some bows, but for me it depends on the bow, how you grip it etc. Not really hard to move it, if you're using a self sticking rest material. For a longbow shelf as Chuck describes, I often stick a piece of velcro/leather/etc., cut in about a 1/4" strip right in the middle, without covering the entire shelf, or adding an additional piece of material.


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

> Quick question...why do you want to place the small thin piece that close to the rear of the bow window?


 I know it doesn't look as good there, lol
it has mostly to do with torque, being there is the least at the point where your hand grips the riser, the further away the rest is the more prone to twist, torque.
It probably doesn't really amount to much in the overall, but I like to use every advantage available. 
Thats the reason I use it like that and why I reccomended it to you! :wink:  

The size of the leather can vary according to personal preference :cocktail: 

My personal silencers are of tanned mink tail, they puff really nice and tight and are waterproof as well as beautiful! (sometimes you can find scraps from old keychains and hatbands and roadkill lol)


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## Miamishooter (Aug 9, 2006)

*tape with silicone on back*

Gentlemen,

I am new in the archery business, and don't know if I am doing a heresy here, but I just glued a silicon tape onto the strike plate's leather and it has quieted the bow incredibly!

On another bow I added the silicone not only to the strike plate but also to the rest. I used a 1 mm foam tape on the rest wood and on top of the tape I added a silicon tape. 

On both cases I never measured if any actual speed increase happened but I do feel a difference plus the noise has been reduced tremendously. I wonder if anyone has ever tried this and what is your experience.

thanks.


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## tpoof (Dec 18, 2005)

mmm, silicone/teflon tape eh,,,,,,  :wink: :thumbs_up


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