# Funding Ideas



## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Great idea CRK. I like the water one the best.


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

JDoupe said:


> Great idea CRK. I like the water one the best.


Thanks Jason just wanted to see what reaction would come out of it if any... Interesting indeed.


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## crazymoose (May 17, 2005)

Great idea Charles, it would be interesting to get some feedback from some of the clubs and if they would be interested in participating.


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

An idea with a great deal of merit Charles. It's going to be an interesting winter.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

charles water idea good but who gets the money in the end which shooter shooters ??? how are they picked????as per mulligan buying it would be a paper work nightmare.. and some one who doesn`t buy a mulligan could loose by 2 points because someone had one extra shot..just my opinion as asked for...not for mulligan buying...


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

I think the mulligan buying is just for fun shoots.......not competitive shoots. I guess this way everyone would be wise to buy into that for the fun shoots.

I see a bunch of details that would have to be worked out.....but lets keep this on the positive side and get some ideas going.


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> charles water idea good but who gets the money in the end which shooter shooters ??? how are they picked????as per mulligan buying it would be a paper work nightmare.. and some one who doesn`t buy a mulligan could loose by 2 points because someone had one extra shot..just my opinion as asked for...not for mulligan buying...


It's just a start Ted and as stated I would like to see the adult team back and stronger. If it catches on along with some other things we can start getting more archers out to the Nationals.
My thoughts about the mulligan if you think about it is the same as paying 22 dollars instead of 20. The club makes a dollar extra for each archer and the same for the fund. I don't see any
problems in reguards to paper work you just mark a M on the back of card with stamp or signature to indicate it was payed for. Again it would be only for the fun shoots that we all attend in winter to stop from getting cabin fever. The journey of a thousand miles is started with the first step.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

at 2 bucks a mulligan with a max set to be purchased seems reasonable other than book keeping on monies collected ...now who gets the money.. an add on is it is by name draw .. and it cost you 5 dollars to get into the lottery to register then all classes have a chance to get the money as well as gender..if not then you will only get the guys that shoot the designated class who will buy mulligans as where if everybody who enters has a chance better income just a thought...


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## ontario3-d'r (Feb 17, 2012)

Great starting the ball rolling Charles. A couple of detatils that would have to be discussed though. First of all, I think you will have a hard time getting people that really aren't interested in the teams, or shooters who probably wouldn't make the teams, to donate to them. The only people that would donate to the teams, are the people who would have a chance to make the team. Sorry, but that is just life. Second, the main discussion on the other thread is the IBO. I don't beleive the OAA would ever switch there funds for archers to attend something other than the Canadians. In order to send a reasonable team of 3 to 5 shooters to Nationals, at least $5000 would need to be raised. That will be very difficult to do. All the best to whoever takes this on. If it was made very clear that it was to help with the Ontario TEAM to attend Nationals, it just might work. Please keep in mind that the money donated must be available to the team at the OAA Championships. That is where the team is selected, and the team needs the funding to book airplane tickets, hotels and cars immediately. Nationals are 3 weeks after the OAA Champs. Great start Charles. Keep it up.


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## ontario3-d'r (Feb 17, 2012)

Classichunter. From what I read, the money would be donated to the OAA, to add the the government funding, to send multiple people to Nationals. The team is selected at the OAA Championships in June. If you shoot higher at the 2013 OAA's than the winner from 2012 Nationals, then you would probable make the OAA team. It is not just for the compounds. It is actually harder for the compounds to make the team, because this year, the winning score in BC was 801. For a compopund shooter to make the team for 2013, they will have to shoot 795 plus to be selected. To shoot 20 points higher is other divisions is much easier than it is for the compounds.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

What the now defunked CFAA use to do was use what ever funds were generated over the year was split evenly to those that won their perspecive class and where going to the IFAA worlds, now that was Field archery, something similar could be done for the 3D crowd, there would alot of logisticts to work out for what will be limited financial help


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

We are all archers no matter what level we are at. One thing we all have in common is that one nasty shot we would like to take over. Been there all to often lol. It would help if we could hear some input from the clubs. A 3D fund target at the end of the shoot I'm sure will get the archers to dig deep for that toonie. One arrow takes home half and the other for the club. This is a win win for both clubs and archers. First step folks it's up to us.


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## FiFi (Dec 4, 2002)

Something that should also be considered is that I can find no state support to the IBO Worlds from any State IBO affiliate, so any support should be used to bolster an existing team going to the Canadian Nationals. ie sending more shooters


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

FiFi said:


> Something that should also be considered is that I can find no state support to the IBO Worlds from any State IBO affiliate, so any support should be used to bolster an existing team going to the Canadian Nationals. ie sending more shooters


I started this in hopes to get back the adult team. When the OAA took that funding away it killed the team. One person is not a team by definition. What I don't want to see is the OAA getting their hands on 3d funding or in years from now we will be singing the same old stuck it to me blues. What happens in 3d stays in 3d. Sorry but when you rely on government funding you get stuck on a one way street.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Hate to say it ... I like the fact if I am quoting charles correctly is the oaa WILL NOT HAVE THESE FUNDS GENERATED.. Then we know it is going to 3d...


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Hate to say it ... I like the fact if I am quoting charles correctly is the oaa WILL NOT HAVE THESE FUNDS GENERATED.. Then we know it is going to 3d...


You got it Ted! This is our chance to take care of our own and help guide our own future. I'm not trying to start a revolt or call for a separation from the OAA but we need a bargaining chip to insure a voice at the table.


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Not my suggestion........someone said it to me and I will pass it along.

If 3D does not get any funding from the government anyway........have a check mark on the membership form to tell them what your main archery discipline is (...as I understand, this is going to be implemented)....now here is the kicker.....have all proceeds from each discipline stay within that discipline.

3D would not be loosing out on government money, but maybe there is enough to keep a little more $$$ in the 3D pot. Other disciplines still get there $$$ from the grants and such.

I understand the some of it needs to go towards common costs, but that could be a small percentage.

This seems like a better idea than splitting away from the OAA completely. One unified front gives us more strength in the long run should the need arise.


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

JDoupe said:


> I understand the some of it needs to go towards common costs, but that could be a small percentage


That small percentage would be over 50% when you consider approximately 33% of an adult and 50% of a youth membership are your Archery Canada membership. This is before administrative costs associated with running the organization.


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## cody12 (Dec 7, 2004)

Charles you have my support and I would like to buy in advance a booklet of mully's we have to support each other at the sport we all love to attend no matter what level of archer we are ......


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

CaptainT said:


> That small percentage would be over 50% when you consider approximately 33% of an adult and 50% of a youth membership are your Archery Canada membership. This is before administrative costs associated with running the organization.


Well...at least it's not a hundred!!! (.....said in a "cup half full" tone!)


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

then lets not have our money sent to archery canada adam let it stay within oaa ..or am I out to lunch on this .... archery canada is only fita orientated pretty well except for 1 or 2 3d tournies...then how much more money would oaa have to spend on 3-d not fita.. I am a pay as you go guy.. each venue has to support itself or they sink ...taking 3-d money to host a different venue is not right.. but it will happen ..funny when you say your going to drop a venue then the people come out to support it .. and is becomes self supporting..imho jd it was me who said we should have the check box also stated by me earlier in this thread and adam said he would implement it for next year..this does not mean your dollars go to this venue it is for stat purposes so far..well maybe not after this agm...lol lol


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## CaptainT (Aug 14, 2005)

One of our ministry requirements is that we are a member of the NSO. Without this we loose our funding as well our ability to participate in Ontario Summer and Canada Winter Games.

So to answer your question of how much money would we have, probably less than if we stayed with our current agreement structure.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

thanks adam for bringing us up to speed on why we have to be with archery canada damned if we do and if we don`t wow thanks for the quick response...


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## ontario3-d'r (Feb 17, 2012)

I think it would be a VERY big mistake to have someone, other than the OAA, pick the archers to receive this money. The very first time that someone helping to collect the money, gets the benefit of it, a major uproar would happen. It would be a bad idea to pick people to go to Nationals, that the OAA didn't help with the decision. They wouldn't be an official OAA travel team anyway. The way that the OAA picks teams to go to nationals has been a very good system for MANY Years. The juniour teams are basically picked the same way the adult teams have been picked. I was on OAA Junior teams over 20 years ago. Again, people seem to think that the OAA made the decision to cut the adult team funding. The decision was made by the government funding they received. They only recieved $800 this year, so that is all they had to give. If, next year they receive more funding for travel teams from the government, then THERE WILL BE MORE MONEY FOR THE TEAM. To think the OAA received the same travel funding as last year, and then gave out $800 and kept the rest for themselves is obsured. I still think that any money donated to the OAA TRAVEL TEAM, should be passed on to the OAA, and then re-directed back to the team members as a cheque to the shooters. If the shooters are directly chosen by the OAA, then there will be no uproar. If someone helping to collect the funds, makes the team, then there will be no questions to be answered. The shooters will all receive OAA shirts, and look great at nationals AS A TEAM! Thanks.


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## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

ontario3-d'r said:


> I think it would be a VERY big mistake to have someone, other than the OAA, pick the archers to receive this money. The very first time that someone helping to collect the money, gets the benefit of it, a major uproar would happen. It would be a bad idea to pick people to go to Nationals, that the OAA didn't help with the decision. They wouldn't be an official OAA travel team anyway. The way that the OAA picks teams to go to nationals has been a very good system for MANY Years. The juniour teams are basically picked the same way the adult teams have been picked. I was on OAA Junior teams over 20 years ago. Again, people seem to think that the OAA made the decision to cut the adult team funding. The decision was made by the government funding they received. They only recieved $800 this year, so that is all they had to give. If, next year they receive more funding for travel teams from the government, then THERE WILL BE MORE MONEY FOR THE TEAM. To think the OAA received the same travel funding as last year, and then gave out $800 and kept the rest for themselves is obsured. I still think that any money donated to the OAA TRAVEL TEAM, should be passed on to the OAA, and then re-directed back to the team members as a cheque to the shooters. If the shooters are directly chosen by the OAA, then there will be no uproar. If someone helping to collect the funds, makes the team, then there will be no questions to be answered. The shooters will all receive OAA shirts, and look great at nationals AS A TEAM! Thanks.


Very well said!:thumbs_up


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## wanemann (Oct 7, 2010)

Sure 3dr sounds good, oaa pack as they normally would but i think the point is ALL money raised by 3dr goes exclusively to 3dr is the point. these ideas or something to the affect gets the ball rolling 3dr stepping up and taking responsibility for our sport, details can be worked out. It would be great to hear for club presidents as to weather they would be on board with something to this affect.
excellent idea crkelly


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

As I mentioned before ..a couple of months ago ... was the shooters submit a resume.... not hard to do and professional ... need a board to be assembled that would review shooters that submitted ...all classes and genders to choose from ..I asked before and only one or two responded who would be on the review board ..and these do not have to be club president or exec.. but must maintain some level of common sense.. in the archery world.. I presume this is for ont only right...or are we going big lol lol


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

Sorry Tim but the hole idea behind this is to to be independant of the OAA while still working along with it. And we would'nt be HELPING to collect money that is of our own making. It's clear that the reason this keeps coming up is all about trust. No one said that 3d would pick the teams for the nationals so I'm not sure how that came up. Right now things are tight and cutbacks I think will get worse and not better. We all need to find ways to keep our sport alive and I believe the free meal tickets are about to dry up. I don't know who feels that the OAA cut back the adult teams funding but kept the other half, it's more like they feel that they will always get the back seats. AGAIN IT'S ALL ABOUT TRUST. Archers are asking questions like did the juniour team get cut back to one archer. How can you talk about an uproar if things don't go by way of the OAA when it's clear that the uproar has been going on for some time now by 3d people.
Wish I had all the answers guys but i think trust and respect are gone.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

I said this 100 posts ago!


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## araz2114 (Jan 13, 2003)

:happy1: As long as we are talking... we may be making progress... or regress... I can't agree or disagree with everything posted... but it is entertaining. Loads of ideas but no real "meat"... yet. Keep talking guys (gals)... 

:happy1:


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Yes there is! Keep your money folks. Spend it on the clubs that care to grow the sport. Speak with your wallets. Btw Chris I pooped in you popcorn


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

Got a pm from a person last night that did'nt sit well with me. I'll keep the name private as should be,but feel I now need to clear things up in reguards to HELPING both the OAA and the 3d funding.First off my intentions were to help find ways for 3d to raise funds in a bad economy. I have done my best to support as many clubs as possible over the years and have put many km behind me doing so. I have gotten to know the club members and the executive behind them and made many friends along the way. So I thought raising funds for 3d should be no problem after all it helps both clubs and it's members. I have had words put in my mouth that were never uttered and my intentions wrongley misused.It seems if you try to help raise funds for 3d and don't do it in the name of the OAA you are labled a radical or outlaw. Maybe even a Robin Hood, sorry could'nt help that one lol. My intentions have never been or ever were to separate from the OAA so lets get that straight some of you. On the other hand those same people don't try to look for ways to help but when others do, then you no what hits the fan. If you leave it to 3d archers to find ways to create funding it goes without saying they have a right as to where it's spent.There will always be those on both sides who are shall I say more of a hindrance than help. Keep your OAA strong some good people are working hard for you. This can still work if we all weed the garden. My rant for the day.


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

well said Charles ...seems the more you try to get something done the more your dumped on.. your efforts are well noted and appreciated.. seems the old school people say it can`t be done or don`t want it done as it might reflect on them as non doers.. Some say we will never see compounds in the Olympics.... wrong they are now ...in the para classes so why not in regular classes.. we need leaders and not fence sitters .. we do have some of the old exec posting here and say no no no can`t be done.. new blood, new ideas and leadership.. can`t loose.. and I still nominate BOBBY BROWN for press ..


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## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> well said Charles ...seems the more you try to get something done the more your dumped on.. your efforts are well noted and appreciated.. seems the old school people say it can`t be done or don`t want it done as it might reflect on them as non doers.. Some say we will never see compounds in the Olympics.... wrong they are now ...in the para classes so why not in regular classes.. we need leaders and not fence sitters .. we do have some of the old exec posting here and say no no no can`t be done.. new blood, new ideas and leadership.. can`t loose.. and I still nominate *BOBBY BROWN * for press ..


You mean Bobby Brown from the Frank Zappa song? LMAO!!!


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## peregrine82 (Aug 25, 2007)

Teddy, that ship has sailed. I have been there and done that. I am willing to help anyone who wants to further 3D archery and improve our lot within the archery community. I have stated before that I would love to see a strong well attended triple crown. Initially I felt that perhaps a separate organization might be the answer. I have changed my mind on this and now believe that we can work within the OAA and accomplish our mutual goals.

I believe that this is not going away and that showing the OAA that we are willing to work inside the tent can have positive results. Hopefully there will be a very good turnout at the AGM and at least I will be able to speak face to face with some people I only know as a user name. 

And for the record I am a Frank Zappa fan although I thought Moon unit and Dweezel were a bit over the top.


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## rdneckhillbilly (Jan 25, 2010)

peregrine82 said:


> Teddy, that ship has sailed. I have been there and done that. I am willing to help anyone who wants to further 3D archery and improve our lot within the archery community. I have stated before that I would love to see a strong well attended triple crown. Initially I felt that perhaps a separate organization might be the answer. I have changed my mind on this and now believe that we can work within the OAA and accomplish our mutual goals.
> 
> I believe that this is not going away and that showing the OAA that we are willing to work inside the tent can have positive results. Hopefully there will be a very good turnout at the AGM and at least I will be able to speak face to face with some people I only know as a user name.
> 
> *And for the record I am a Frank Zappa fan although I thought Moon unit and Dweezel were a bit over the top.*


Sorry. I know this is a serious topic but I have a tendency to try and lighten the mood when I sense tension. 
From the outside looking in, sounds to me like dialog and communication are key and it's nice to see the ideas/opinions being thrown around in such a thoughtful and respectful manner. 
:thumbs_up:canada::thumbs_up

I'll shut up now....JK:happy1::darkbeer:


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

CRK.....I think some of the confusion of your intentions may come from the two fifferent threads on AT at the same time.

The other one has had some talk of splitting from the OAA....and I'll be honest.....sometimes I have a hard time remembering what info was from what thread.

I do like your idea of raising funds for 3D under the OAA umbrella, you radical you!!!


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## CLASSICHUNTER (May 20, 2005)

Jd read Charles post number 18 the funds would not be under oaa control if i read it right and his confirmation...


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## JDoupe (Dec 9, 2006)

Understood.....but in his last post he stated he may have been quoted as saying he wants to leave the OAA......and this is not the case.

I just wanted to point out where there may have been confusion.......and it may not have been with bad intent.


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

CLASSICHUNTER said:


> Jd read Charles post number 18 the funds would not be under oaa control if i read it right and his confirmation...


My idea was to hand over the money to the OAA but under the condition that it is used for 3d only. Not fita,field or target 3d only. It was my thought to raise funding for the adult team as the first step.Again we do the work we reap the benefits. I'm a 3d guy not fita or field though I would still like to try my hand at field some day.In any case we have a system in hand that works even if it's not always to our liking. If we help in funding our sport we have a say in it. It's a small start but a start nevertheless and in a economy that is very shakey at best I doubt if funding will be restored soon.I'm also of the opinion that we need to start soon and not wait for a miracle.All a person has to do is look around,we just had a letter sent to us about another pension shortfall. All I can do is throw this out there. If some of you feel the same talk to your local clubs and lets get the ball rolling.


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## Stash (Jun 1, 2002)

You can't just say to the OAA Treasurer "here's some money - give it to some 3Ders" 

You would need to assemble a set of guidelines specifying how people can apply for/be awarded the funding, and for what events. This would likely have to be a Board decision with input from interested parties, to be ratified by the general membership and published/posted on the OAA website. An accounting system would have to be established. There might be some minor administrative charges involved (banking fees, postage, etc.).


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## crkelly (Mar 17, 2011)

Stash said:


> You can't just say to the OAA Treasurer "here's some money - give it to some 3Ders"
> 
> You would need to assemble a set of guidelines specifying how people can apply for/be awarded the funding, and for what events. This would likely have to be a Board decision with input from interested parties, to be ratified by the general membership and published/posted on the OAA website. An accounting system would have to be established. There might be some minor administrative charges involved (banking fees, postage, etc.).


Think that goes without saying. The whole idea behind we make the money we have the say so. Same as the government saying I give you money here is were it gets spent.


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## Bow bandit (Apr 21, 2007)

Does anyone remember how much the OAA said they spent on 3D targets this year? I may have a solution to the questions at hand.


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## Grey Eagle (May 23, 2002)

Given the financial situation that most clubs find themselves in, I think you would have resistance in trying to take away a revenue stream from them (water bottles sales). I may stand corrected but I do believe that when you are renewing your OAA membership you have the opportunity to contribute to the junior travel teams on a voluntary basis. Why not ask the OAA to revise this to include adult teams as well, even make it that the donations can be made through the OAA at all times of the year, not just at membership renewal time. Then go out and actively promote this within the archery community. You are afterall talking about support from within.


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