# New Louisiana xbow regs proposed



## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Any thoughts you asked? *

This thread will likely be moved but I'll repeat a recent reply to the same type question concerning crossbows in bow season:


As an avid bowhunter and, since 1962, an NFAA field round and 3D competitive archer with traditional recurves and long bows and from time to time with compounds starting in 1971, I find the petty arguments for and against crossbows frustrating. When I was younger and shooting competitively on a state and regional basis, nobody could have convinced me to put my bows down to shoot crossbows. I now find myself 65 years old but very much still a bowhunter at heart and with the same love for archery that won't change until my last day on this earth. My life was abruptly changed the day my doctor told me I could not continue shooting and hunting with my 65 lb Bear recurve or even a lighter draw weight compound. Today I cannot draw even a 15 lb kids bow due to severe arthritis in my neck and right shoulder. I reluctantly sold all my compounds and only have 2 Bear recurves that I'm currently trying to sell. They have been replaced with crossbows of various manufacture and I've learned to enjoy them to the same degree as when I shot compounds. My Bowtech compounds with Easton ACC arrows are now replaced by Strykers, Phantoms, Pro sliders and Excals shooting Easton 2219's, Gold Tip Lazer II's and Easton Power Bolt arrows. I still continue ,making my own bowstrings, fletching my own arrows, experimenting with different arrow combinations and sights just as I did with compound bows and to some degree with traditonal recurves and long bows. My accuracy levels with my crossbows are comparable to my compounds in hunting conditions. In standing position, I could probably shoot my Bowtech compound with 80% let-off and a good back tension trigger more accurately than any of my crossbows. I do, however, think that a bowhunter shooting his traditional or compound equipment a few times ony a few days before bow season comes in would be at a disadvantage compared to doing the same thing with his crossbow. On the other hand, a compound shooter that shoots year round in 3D tournaments will give up nothing in accuracy by going to a crossbow. That's what I've found after shooting crossbows for 4 years now. My most accurate crossbows can group 3" at 70 yards on a calm day using a red dot reflex sight with no magnification which is what I shoot for hunting. I could do the same thing with my Bowtech compound shooting the same reflex red dot sight. 

OMHO, with the above in mind, the only bowhunters that have any reason to complain about their bowhunting season being "watered down" by other hunters should be the recurve and long bowshooters that are, in my mind, the only true and original bowhunters. They do not use triggers to shoot their bows, or lighted pins, are drop away rests, or stabilizers, or 80% let-off draw weights resulting in approximately 8 lbs draw weight at full draw. My point is that there is MUCH more difference in a typical compound bow from a recurve or long bow than there is between a compound bow and a crossbow. So why all the complaining from compound shooters? I think it has something to do with selfishness. I listened in on a comment made just 2 days ago by another older bowhunter that said he hated crossbows so much that if he became handicapped to the point he could not shoot his compound bow anymore he would actually hunt with his rifle illegally during bow season rather than a crossbow. That shows the idiocy we are up against in many cases.

I love anything that shoots an arrow. I love watching an arrow fly and will continue shooting them, even out of my crossbows, as long as I can. I only wish others could appreciate crossbows as I do. One day they will I'm sure.

Virginia opened bowhunting season to crossbows 3 years ago with absolutely no negative affect on compound or recurve bowhunters. Other states will follow.


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## Revival (Feb 21, 2005)

Many thoughts, and we appreciate the info. 

The issue of crossbow legality or use has been a banned topic here though because as soon as someone says "It's about time..." then anti's will jump in and spawn the same discussion that has been going on since the first caveman sharpened his stick takes place and I am forced to lock the thread.

Inexperienced hunters are exactly the people we need to have in the woods. That means we are recruiting people to the sport. If all hunters were experienced then the sport dies as that generation passes.

This thread will stay open as long as everyone can stay off the topic of whether crossbows should be allowed throughout archery (which I know is the topic of the post, so good luck with that one!)

*** UPDATE *** I submitted my post as the first reply and got an error. Moonkryket's reply makes some of my comments moot. Moving to Legislation to see if it lives over there. - Brad


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## willie (Jul 2, 2003)

*Lots of changes LA...*

*LWFC proposing new rules for young hunters*

By JOE MACALUSO
Advocate Outdoors writer 
Published: Feb 8, 2008 

Young hunters ages 16 and 17 years old will be included in all youth-only hunts and be eligible for the state’s youth lottery hunts if new rules are adopted by the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission.

At Thursday’s LWFC monthly meeting, state Wildlife Division manager Kenny Ribbeck outlined amendments for the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 hunting seasons.

The additions of the young hunters was atop those changes. In recent years, hunters 15-and-younger were eligible for the youth-only hunts on private lands and youth lottery hunts on state-owned or managed wildlife management areas and on federal lands.

*Another major change will add crossbows to the legal list of bow-and-arrow weapons allowed for use during archery seasons. Current regulations allow hunters 60 and older and disabled hunters to use crossbows. The new regulations allow all hunters to use crossbows during the legal seasons.
The LWFC will take public comment on these and all other proposed changes through the end of April, finalize the regulations packages in May, then ratify them in June.

The archery-for-deer season in State Deer Areas 3 and 8 will be the first seasons affected by the new crossbow rules. 

State wildlife managers said they were spending too much time trying to certify an increasing number of applications for crossbow use. Under existing rules, 60-year-old and older hunters and all disabled hunters wishing to use crossbows had to apply for a special certificate.*

Another amendment announced Thursday included reopening the state to pheasant hunting. Ribbeck said the Wildlife Division is receiving more and more reports about pheasants on private lands. The state has been closed to pheasant hunting for most of this decade after numbers dwindled in the southwestern parishes.

Ribbeck said private clubs are releasing pheasants for hunters and that pheasants are escaping and reestablishing their numbers in several areas of the state. Starting in November, this season will have the same dates as the quail season.

Another major proposed change will allow disabled hunters to have two helpers to get to and from stands and retrieve game. Those hunters will also be allowed to use ATVs.

Youth-only squirrel hunts — set this year for Sept. 27-28 — on Boeuf, Clear Creek, Sandy Hollow, Spring Bayou and West Bay wildlife management areas will be added to those opened in the past. Places opened in the past included Bodcau, Jackson-Bienville, Little River, Pearl River, Russell Sage and Sherburne WMAs.

There was more for young hunters, like being able to use any gauge shotgun loaded with slugs during the muzzleloader-only deer seasons. Current rules allow youngsters to use only 20-gauge shotguns. Loggy Bayou WMA will be added to the Floy McElroy WMA for youth-only mourning dove hunting.
Closer to home, four days will be added to the either-sex deer season in the Maurepas Swamp WMA, the 60,000-plus acre area between Baton Rouge and New Orleans.

And, the 2009 spring squirrel season (May 2-10) will be opened on all WMAs across the state except for the Biloxi, Camp Beauregard, Fort Polk and Peason Ridge WMAs. The first two years of this newly opened season were limited to seven WMAs.

Horse riders will take a big hit under the new regulations: Trail rides will be banned on all WMAs.

There will be a 36-horsepower limit on surface drive boats for hunters on the Atchafalaya Delta and Pass a Loutre WMAs. Camp Avondale in East Feliciana Parish will have a special Nov. 8-10 deer season.

*WW - Here is another biggie -*

*The state Legislature will have to create a new weapons category to allow hunters to use the .45-70 rifles during the muzzleloader season. State Wildlife Division chief Jimmy Anthony said the weapon technically is not a muzzleloader weapon. The .45-70 is allowed to be used by Mississippi muzzleloader hunters.*

Changes proposed to the two private-lands deer management programs would give the landowner buck and antlerless deer tags that would not count against an individual hunter’s three buck and three-doe tags.
And, the plan for the statewide deer-tagging program will be implemented for the 2008-2009 season.

In other action, the LWFC:

· Modified the proposed rule to require kill-switch use for all tiller-steered outboards to exclude outboards used on sailboats and outboards 10-horsepower or less; 

· Changed state rules on size and daily limits of vermilion snapper; received stock assessments on mullet, drum, sheepshead and flounder - all four meet requirements for stock sustainability; 

· Opened the Sister Lake Oyster Area for a special Feb. 11-29 season; tabled a similar request for a May season in Lake Mechant and Sister Lake; 

· Voted to hold its June meeting on June 5 in Baton Rouge.


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## buckmark23 (Jul 1, 2006)

I think if they allow crossbows they should NOT allow them to have scopes. If they do allow scopes then they should not have any magnification. 

The state just wants to make more money and needed another weapon and additional fees to get it. Greed.


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## Engelsmung (Jan 12, 2005)

*Eggzackery*



buckmark23 said:


> The state just wants to make more money and needed another weapon and additional fees to get it. Greed.


Louisiana has had declining hunter numbers for years. We have a separate $10.50 bow season license, on top of the $10.50 hunting, and $10.50 big game, so it will make them some money. Also, all the bowshops will sell crossbows and gear, ginning up tax revenue, and I have no doubt the state report each of the licenses sold to the feds for Pittman Robertson funding. While I am against the use of crossbows in the regular bow season by able bodied hunters, it is extremely interesting to note the comment in Joe Macaluso's article about the plethora of applications. I've always heard it was very easy to get a Doctor's excuse to qualify, and La is chock full of deadbeats on SSDI/disabilty/unemployment/worker's comp, who can't work, yet have no trouble hunting.

I empathize with the LaDWF and the need to recruit more hunters, but this just gets the gun hunters into the bowseason, not any new hunters, and our public land deer population is so overharvested already there will be nothing left. Our gun season lasts for 2 months, with a week of muzzleloader on both ends of that(and now you see a rifle, the 45-70, in the muzz; with telescopic scopes, in lines and these are not primitve any more and contribute to the decline of game).

I already made my public comment on this, but it'll pass, and the hunting will suck even more, until they figure out that the lack of game hurts more than lack of opportunity.


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*From tests that I've been working on*

a scope with magnification, when used in most close range crossbow shots, offers little if any advantage and in many cases is a disadvantage. Back to my point.........................I've heard no suggestions that fiber optic pins or red dot scopes not be allowed on compound vertical bows After all, they are more removed from the original traditional bowhunting equipment where shots are taken instinctively with no sights than they are from current crossbow sights I just have a hard time understanding the reasons for nit picking how a crossbow should be aimed, as an example, and not apply the same thinking to modern compound bows that are loaded with gadgets and gimmicks. 

I bowhunted whitetail deer successfully with traditional and compound vertical bows since 1962 up until 4 years ago and with crossbows for the last 4 years and I have not thought of myself as any less of a bowhunter with the crossbow.

Let's give the hunting crossbow credit for what it is....a bowhunting tool alternative...nothing more...nothing less, just as the compound vertical bow has been for the last 36 years. Crossbows will add to the bowhunting population in many cases where a compound vertical bow or traditional bow cannot. That can only be good for all bowhunters and hunting in general.


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## Cossack2 (Aug 29, 2006)

This argument is timeless. Like using horses drawn carriage and the Model A, like flyfishing and using a spinning reel, like semi auto and single shot rifles, etc, etc.
It's human nature to think that we're doing it the right way. (It's also human nature to want to keep a good thing to oneself.)
Most of the people I meet who object to using a crossbow have never shot one. I recently spoke with one who has never used EITHER type of bow; didn't prevent him from having an opinion about the "unfairness" of using a crossbow.
It's just human nature at work. We'll never convince all of them to our point of view. It matters not, as long as they (albeit reluctantly) admit our right to ours.


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## Po_Boy (Jun 3, 2006)

Frankly I am more interested in the opening of a phesant hunting season than the crossbow issue, I have to drive 10 hours to go phesant hunting now and having something in my home state would be great. On the crossbow issue don't we have enough anti's trying to tell hunters that we don't need to hunt, why would we create dissention amongst ourselves? In this part of LA bowhunting takes a distant third to rifle and muzzleloading. Crossbows aren't going to open up a floodgate of people into the woods, working at a local shop it has come up many times that your average rifle hunter will not buy a crossbow to extend their season. In this area the majority of rifle hunters view crossbows as not being worth the investment since the cheapset crossbow costs as much as a rife, you can effectivly only shoot it at 35 yards at a deer and the part of the season you are extending is hot and mosquito and tick are in full force. Frankly some of the guys that show up the week before season starts to buy the cheepest bow they can and want to start bowhunting on opening day I would almost rather see them with the crossbow since they are less likely to make a bad shot and obviously they aren't going to put the time in to become a proficient shot with a bow. Just my .02


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

Reminds me of how I felt 3 years ago when it was proposed here. 3 years later we're all still waiting for whatever xbows were supposed to do happen. Success rate for compound vs xbow is less than 1% difference. That alone should say it all. If it was better the numbers would show it. Today it rarely if ever comes up in conversations with people on hunting. Another friend developed shoulder issues and is asking which one and advice on what to look for in an xbow. Last year he was saying I'll never shoot one. One's life can change overnight. It's just another choice or another way to do the same thing.


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## buckmark23 (Jul 1, 2006)

Moonkryket said:


> a scope with magnification, when used in most close range crossbow shots, offers little if any advantage and in many cases is a disadvantage. Back to my point.........................I've heard no suggestions that fiber optic pins or red dot scopes not be allowed on compound vertical bows After all, they are more removed from the original traditional bowhunting equipment where shots are taken instinctively with no sights than they are from current crossbow sights I just have a hard time understanding the reasons for nit picking how a crossbow should be aimed, as an example, and not apply the same thinking to modern compound bows that are loaded with gadgets and gimmicks.
> I bowhunted whitetail deer successfully with traditional and compound vertical bows since 1962 up until 4 years ago and with crossbows for the last 4 years and I have not thought of myself as any less of a bowhunter with the crossbow.
> 
> Let's give the hunting crossbow credit for what it is....a bowhunting tool alternative...nothing more...nothing less, just as the compound vertical bow has been for the last 36 years. Crossbows will add to the bowhunting population in many cases where a compound vertical bow or traditional bow cannot. That can only be good for all bowhunters and hunting in general.


*I have no problem with crossbows. If you want to hunt in 90 degree weather with all the misquito's and snakes we have, more power to you. I do it and it is hard but rewarding. 
I personally do not think that a scope should be allowed on a x-bow for able bodied persons. I also do not think there should be a cocking aid device for able bodied persons. If you are handicaped then you can have the scope and cocking aid. *

*If you do not have to hold any weight on the string it is not the same as a compound. It is an evoulution of bows. The long bow, then recurve, then compound, now x-bow. 
The x-bow has a cocking aid, holds the string in a locking device and you can put a magnified scope on it. Not exactly like a compound bow.*



Po_Boy said:


> Frankly I am more interested in the opening of a phesant hunting season than the crossbow issue, I have to drive 10 hours to go phesant hunting now and having something in my home state would be great. On the crossbow issue don't we have enough anti's trying to tell hunters that we don't need to hunt, why would we create dissention amongst ourselves? In this part of LA bowhunting takes a distant third to rifle and muzzleloading. Crossbows aren't going to open up a floodgate of people into the woods, working at a local shop it has come up many times that your average rifle hunter will not buy a crossbow to extend their season. In this area the majority of rifle hunters view crossbows as not being worth the investment since the cheapset crossbow costs as much as a rife, you can effectivly only shoot it at 35 yards at a deer and the part of the season you are extending is hot and mosquito and tick are in full force. Frankly some of the guys that show up the week before season starts to buy the cheepest bow they can and want to start bowhunting on opening day I would almost rather see them with the crossbow since they are less likely to make a bad shot and obviously they aren't going to put the time in to become a proficient shot with a bow. Just my .02


Very good post.


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## Stringwacker (Aug 1, 2004)

I've often said that the bigger issue of all of this is the states desire to include more participation by way of broadening the legal weapons that can be used in the 'special seasons'. Once a re-invention of sorts in special seasons begins, it's proven very hard for the states to apply the brakes...ie whatever they liked about expanding to crossbows will also apply if they allow handguns, black powder rifles etc. I see where the state of Lousiana is also considering the use of 45-70 centerfire rifles within the context of the "muzzleloader season". Another perfect example of a slippery slope of no return.

The argument for crossbow legalization within the archery season based on individual choice is a powerful argument....yet it sets the stage for another individual who wants to use his black powder rifle in the archery season. Same argument with the same results...over time.

The argument of individual weapon choice becomes the nemisis of special season survival...'cause special seasons are based on equipment restrictions.

Thus the crossbow issue is really the small part of a larger argument on whether special seasons are to exist in the future.


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## BigBirdVA (Nov 5, 2002)

buckmark23 said:


> *I have no problem with crossbows. If you want to hunt in 90 degree weather with all the misquito's and snakes we have, more power to you. I do it and it is hard but rewarding.
> I personally do not think that a scope should be allowed on a x-bow for able bodied persons. I also do not think there should be a cocking aid device for able bodied persons. If you are handicaped then you can have the scope and cocking aid. *
> 
> *If you do not have to hold any weight on the string it is not the same as a compound. It is an evoulution of bows. The long bow, then recurve, then compound, now x-bow.
> ...


Actually your evolution is wrong. Xbows have about a thousand years ahead of compounds. 

So now you need an eye test to hunt with an xbow? LOL 
Big question have you ever hunted with an xbow or is this just more hate talk from greedy people unwilling to allow others in "their season"?
Exactly what does X amount of power do that's so darn bad? Most only use a 2-3X. It's not that big a deal and too much makes it hard to hold freehand and aim. 
It doesn't matter how much power a scope has, an xbow is still a 30 yd deer weapon. All my shots have been under 30yds. Most around 20-25. My longest compound deer was 40 yds. So much for all that unfair xbow range huh? Regardless of how far a weapon can kill, shooter skill still plays a big part in taking a deer at longer ranges with an arrow. A 4X scope isn't the key to it. Xbow noise limits yardage - not ability to see the deer bigger or clearer.


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## Wyvern Creations (Sep 20, 2006)

"It is an evoulution of bows. The long bow, then recurve, then compound, now x-bow. "

Ummmm....excuse me???? This is a 700year old design and I can tell you that a modern crossbow is not all that diferant than a medieval one. The triggers are almost identical designs.

Wyvern


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## ban_t (Dec 27, 2005)

Nice shooting, good lookin bow, So what was the problem??? :darkbeer:


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Pretty amazing huh?*

There are folks here that think crossbows are a recent development And althought they have no problems with triggers and scopes on compounds, for some reason they think they sould be illegal on crossbows

This crossbow is a 12th century reproduction by Wyvern. It should have been allowed for bowhunting long before anyone ever thought about a compound bow.. Let's see..............the crossbow design is approximately 900 years old and the compound about 36 years old but it's accepted


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## RadioSportsman (Mar 3, 2006)

*I'm For Hunting and Hunters......Period*

I must admit, I did not read every post in this thread in its entirety. As host of a hunting/fishing radio program based in N Louisiana, I support hunting and hunters, period. Today, more than ever, it is absolutely critical that we as hunters stick together. There are a number of frustrations we can find with each other (i.e. dog hunting with dogs who can't read posted signs). The fact is, we truly are all in this together. This election year scares me more than any ever has. We as sportsmen, women, and children are more at risk of having our rights infringed upon that any time in our Nation's history. With that said, if this passes in Louisiana, great. If the 45/70 bill passes, great. Let's focus on preserving our sport and hunting heritage for future generations, and less on finding fault with each other. JEH


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## rattus58 (Jul 9, 2007)

buckmark23 said:


> I think if they allow crossbows they should NOT allow them to have scopes. If they do allow scopes then they should not have any magnification.
> 
> The state just wants to make more money and needed another weapon and additional fees to get it. Greed.


Shure nuff..... and remove scopes from compounds too then, and laser rangefinders too possibly... lets see what else....

Give me a break... a bow is a bow whether vertical or not. All this hype between the two is meaningless unless you compare it to the recurve, which compound shooters are loath to do, for it shows what hypocrisy they extol. The differences between the mechanics of crossbow and compound are nil, and that is the action that matters; What happens when you pull the trigger.

Aloha...  :beer:


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## kemosabi (Jan 14, 2008)

i really think the anti's think we just go out and shoot deer at will,w/no problems at all...Craaaapppooolllaaaa,its hard work and it involves alot of time,money,skill and good ole luck...My DR w/not sighn for my x-bow permit,says i look fine and should hunt w/compound,but yet he is my pain management dr ,lol..go figure that,,,has he any idea how difficult it is to stick a deer or any animal w/a arrow from only a few feet away.....come on,most states a x- bow is legal,my back and shoulder are totally screwed and after a few shots w/compound i feel it for a week,lol...but im not a candidate for a x-bow..Not that i really even want to use one,i enjoy shooting a long bow ans compound better anyway,,its a good thing,huhhh,lol,,,...Most of these law writers have never been in the woods,pencil pushers that hunt in a text book.....just my 2 cents,lol...Laws,ahh man,whats good for the goose is good for the gander..lol...


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## buckmark23 (Jul 1, 2006)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Please read all of my post. I do not have a problem with the crossbow. I have my opinion and you have yours. No problem. 

As far as my explanation of the "evolution" of bows, that was meant for more recent times. I don't think many poeple will be bringing "older" style looking cross bows out into the field. Sorry to get you guys all worked up.

as for the crossbows pictured, That's awesome!


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## Moon (Jul 16, 2006)

*Worked up??? who??? *

Just stating the facts for folks that read these threads with no background knowledge. 

Of course we crossbow fanatics will defend our sport, not just from feelings but from experience in shooting long bows, compounds and recurve bows over the years. From that experience we gain the knowledge for a fair and equitable comparison. Although I've done it all, If I had remained a dyed in the wool traditional long bow shooter and hunter with my blinders on, as many of them have, I too would likely be against anything but traditional archery and traditional bowhunting. But for the "Johnny come lately" compound and gadget bowhunting bunch, they have absolutely NO legitimate gripe about crossbows and even the modern so called traditionalist bowhunters decide whether they will shoot traditional wooden arrows or the non-traditional high tech metal and carbon arrows The word "HIPOCRITE" comes into play here any way you look at it. That is the aspect of the crossbow debate that makes my head want to explode:dizzy:

I think there will be a sizeable demand for "traditional" (medieval) crossbows for shooting and hunting once they are readily available and I also think this development will somewhat soften the anti-crossbow bias that currently exists.


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## PMantle (Feb 15, 2004)

I tried to tell you guys that our current statutes allowed this. Many of you who post here would not believe me. 

No need to add anything to what Engelsmung posted. He summed up most of Louisiana's bowhunter's thoughts on the matter. The BSBA will be against this will all their power. I let my membership lapse, but now I'll be back.


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