# Not our best ...



## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

https://youtu.be/1GH_XxU7EYs

I know this was a set-up and done for "fun", but am I the only one who finds it embarrassing?

Viper1 out.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I think it's great, to tell the truth, and in fact I've lost count of the number of times I've watched it . What I like is they're 3 of the best olympic style shooters in the world, but seeing their different styles of shooting barebow (or should I say "barebow"). What I wonder is, are those styles just the way they instinctively grab a completely bare bow, haul back and shoot? Or do any of them devote any time to barebow and those are actual practiced methods? I honestly don't know if these guys also shoot BB in addition or are only exclusively olympic style.

And, BTW, that's not the only one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I3CbtC_95E

DM


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## Wobbley (Sep 26, 2014)

Dunno, seems like some fun on the range.

Everything was done safely, so fair play.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

All in good fun. I don't find it embarrassing in the least.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

They are just showing that barebow is not a serious division, and we cannot hit anything anyway.... 





Ok, note the joking in the text above, just as they were doing having some fun. If anything it shows that real effort has to be taken to become serious BB archers.


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

One arrow...in the center...the only one...with a W&W...in a match sponsored by W&W...ok, sure, got it. 

My question is how did Hoyt get suckered into that set-up? Or just a victim of creative editing?


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## TheElBow (May 18, 2015)

Seattlepop said:


> One arrow...in the center...the only one...with a W&W...in a match sponsored by W&W...ok, sure, got it.


It was a MK Archery bow, not a W&W ...


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## Seattlepop (Dec 8, 2003)

TheElBow said:


> It was a MK Archery bow, not a W&W ...


Ah, so it is. Never mind.


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## Mr. Roboto (Jul 13, 2012)

I took it as all in fun.

But they should have had John Demmer be part of that video. He shoots well with an Oly Bow, and will own the gold with all the accessories taken off the bow.

This video does continue the perception of barebow shooters can't shoot. And by having some of the best Oly shooters shoot poorly in this video continues the perception that a great archer can not shoot well if they don't have all of the accessories attached to the bow, and thus continues to push new archers into the Oly world.

Yes, there was a lot of stereotypes in that video. I don't think the video was originally made to make fun of the barebow, but more to have fun with the archers in the video.

They should have done this video at the US non-olympic trials last fall and picked John Demmer as one of the contestants.


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## chrstphr (Nov 23, 2005)

Seattlepop said:


> One arrow...in the center...the only one...with a W&W...in a match sponsored by W&W...ok, sure, got it.
> 
> My question is how did Hoyt get suckered into that set-up? Or just a victim of creative editing?


Yes, At the time, Juan Rene Serrano was a MK Korea archer, his riser MKX10 and limbs are MK Veracity. 

At Vegas this year, he was shooting a Hoyt bow. 

Chris


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## rbro (Dec 17, 2013)

I like it. Shows that they're human. Makes me feel better about my shooting.

rbro


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I think what made it a little slapdash on the form side was the time constraint, and that they were shooting 50+ lb draw weights with no fingertabs, just bare fingers. Surely no one seriously thinks that these world class archers wouldn't be regularly drilling the gold with a barebow in a normal competition setting. 


I thought it was fun.


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## b0w_bender (Apr 30, 2006)

OK perhaps someone outside of archery wouldn't understand what is going on and think that the best archers in the world can't even hit the target. They may not understand they are shooting in a way completely different then they are used to. No sites no stabilizers no gizmos and then add a time factor to ratchet up the difficulty. all that is likely lost on the uninformed but for those of us within archery are likely to find it really entertaining. Well I found it entertaining.


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## beleg2 (Dec 31, 2005)

One thing I found interesting is that they get target panic, not even get to anchor, when shooting without clicker.
JMHO
Martin.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

b0w - 

Here's the problem, it's not the people "outside" of archery I'm worried about. I have my roots in what's now called "traditional" archery. (I started before there was a "traditional".) A lot of the "neo-traditional types I deal with these days very firmly believe that "Olympic" shooters, in fact couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside without all the stuff on their bows. 

Even though it was a light-hearted fun at the range type of video, all it did for a lot of people, was confirm that notion. Welcome to the Internet. 

Viper1 out.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Tony, you're worrying too much about the "image" of traditional archers. Just suspend reality for a moment and see it for what it is - a bit of poking fun at themselves. We should be proud of them for being willing to look that "mortal" to that masses.

I've known Brady for about 10 years now. My students shot with him and against him when he was still a JOAD archer. Later, he took "my" spot alongside Vic and Butch and later still, I shot against him in 2011 and 2012 at the Olympic trials. Here's what I know about Brady - and the same could probably be said for the other two - that if he wanted to be a world champion barebow or "trad" archer, he would be. Period. 

So let's just see the exercise for what it is - fun.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John - 

You know as well as I do, in some circles, OK most circles, "image" trumps reality. 
That's nothing new, but there is added fuel thanks to the mis-information super highway. 

You know as well as I do, the crap that's passed around as fact in the trad sections. 
Sorry, I'm calling that a dumb move. 

And for the record, some of my "trad" training included rapid fire or speed drills, not unlike those used in Hi-power rifle. 
Seeing our "best" acting like youtube wanna be's doesn't work for me. 

Viper1 out.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

This might be off topic some but, what is the current definition of trad archery? I am an ILF finger shooter with a 12" weighted stab. NFAA says that's trad but is it? Just curious....


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## Mormegil (Jan 26, 2012)

equilibrium said:


> This might be off topic some but, what is the current definition of trad archery? I am an ILF finger shooter with a 12" weighted stab. NFAA says that's trad but is it? Just curious....


According to http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ there are 7,402,888,701 people on the planet. 

Therefore, according to my estimates, there are probably about 7,402,888,701 definitions of traditional archery. 

Possibly more.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> there are probably about 7,402,888,701 definitions of traditional archery.


Bwahahaha. That's about right! 



> You know as well as I do, the crap that's passed around as fact in the trad sections.
> Sorry, I'm calling that a dumb move.


Yup. And I'm far beyond trying to correct it because even when presented with facts, some people will choose fiction.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Viper1 said:


> John -
> 
> You know as well as I do, in some circles, OK most circles, "image" trumps reality.
> That's nothing new, but there is added fuel thanks to the mis-information super highway.
> ...


So you saying people cannot have fun of themselves (because that's what happening there), because someone can interpret it wrongly??? Are you for real?
Why you care what others think? It's their choice.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

chrstphr said:


> Yes, At the time, Juan Rene Serrano was a MK Korea archer, his riser MKX10 and limbs are MK Veracity.
> 
> At Vegas this year, he was shooting a Hoyt bow.
> 
> Chris


NO NO, it's surely big conspiracy against Hoyt :-D


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

It looks like a bunch of people having fun. What's not to like?

Patrick...don't worry about labels. Worry about people trying to shoot your fletching off your arrows.


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## rharper (Apr 30, 2012)

Not at all embarrassing. To me, pokes fun at themselves and shows that throwing the "olympic" off the bow makes for a more challenging experience.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

I like it!

I often recommend people shoot outside of their normal style to keep it fresh and fun. Helps break up the monotony of practice as well as being a good cure for target panic. Having a video out there of three of the best archers in the world doing just that is great.

If someone is being resistant to switching it up a bit, this video being available is awesome! Plus seeing them having fun out on the range is refreshing, since we usually see these guys with "competition face"


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

:wink::eyebrows::eyebrows:[/COLOR]:eyebrows:


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

Viper1 said:


> b0w -
> 
> Here's the problem, it's not the people "outside" of archery I'm worried about. I have my roots in what's now called "traditional" archery. (I started before there was a "traditional".) A lot of the "neo-traditional types I deal with these days very firmly believe that "Olympic" shooters, in fact couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside without all the stuff on their bows.
> 
> ...


Viper, judging by some of the posts in this thread, I'd say your concerns have merit.


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

this was all in fun guys!,,,no need for overthinking here...

i once beat our no.1 archer when we decided to shoot barebow inside a gym from the bleachers at the targets on the floor from varying distances up to a maximum of 30 meters...he missed the target butt a few times too!!

i never did!!


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## jmvargas (Oct 21, 2004)

jmvargas said:


> this was all in fun guys!,,,no need for overthinking here...
> 
> i once beat our no.1 archer when we decided to shoot barebow inside a gym from the bleachers at the targets on the floor from varying distances up to a maximum of 30 meters...he missed the target butt a few times too!!
> 
> i never did!!


.....to be fair i just want to add that i had been shooting instinctively--ie--bowhunting--for many years prior to going into olympic archery and our no.1 archer and an olympian to boot had never really tried it before this...


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

*but am I the only one who finds it embarrassing?*

I sure hope so!!!!!

Sorry they damaged your presious image to bring us the lighter side of their personalities. 
Damb it must have hurt to almost smile huh?


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Guys - 

If they were any three other "olympic style" shooters, we would have laughed at them, not with them and possible considered them pathetic. I would have preferred see what they were actually capable of doing rather than them acting like youtube wannabes. The fact that it seems like everybody here seems to think it's fine and dandy, sounds more like hero worship, than reality. 

Just my take.

Viper1 out.


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## dmacey (Mar 27, 2015)

I would say: c'mon folks, let's not take ourselves too seriously. We're talking about shooting a bow and arrow here, not figuring out mortality and ending war, famine and global warming. Let's remember that this isn't a job, it's supposed to be fun - if we go off the deep end all that does is take that fun out of it and decrements our quality of life by yet another point. And all of us already have enough of those decrements in our lives, so let's just hang onto this one and not let a youtube video take it out.

My suggestion, but only my suggestion .

DM


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Viper1 said:


> Guys -
> 
> If they were any three other "olympic style" shooters, we would have laughed at them, not with them and possible considered them pathetic. I would have preferred see what they were actually capable of doing rather than them acting like youtube wannabes. The fact that it seems like everybody here seems to think it's fine and dandy, sounds more like hero worship, than reality.
> 
> ...


How terribly unfortunate. I can't imagine laughing at someone and comsidering them pathetic because they decided to have fun and do something different. That's just sad.


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## SBills (Jan 14, 2004)

Agree with Jason. Your reaching here Tony. You could just as easily produce a similar video with some top recurve shooters who had never shot compound freestyle with a hinge, except there might be some bloody noses. It's just archery folks. They didn't take it to serious I don't know why others are.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

Scott - 

These are guys who supposed to be the best, implying that without a sight, clicker and stabilizer, they can't even anchor sends a pretty poor message. 
I dunno, maybe they really can't shoot without that stuff, or are just into the justin bieber school of youtube. 

Why would I want to see anybody handle a weapon like it's a toy? Most ranges I use won't let first time shooters get away with that. 
I guess, if you're at that level you can get away with anything, including making yourself look incompetent for "fun". 

Maybe I'm getting to old for this stuff. 

Viper1 out.


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## AJ the TP Guru (Jul 29, 2011)

I enjoyed it. Just like as said above, it's a different animal. Actually, all kinds of archery take practice, bb just takes more.


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## zal (May 1, 2007)

Why don't all those magnificent barebow archers then slap on some sights and stabs and win all the olympic medals? I'm sure they'd be drawn like bears to a pot of honey, following the prizes and recognition olympic archery could bring.

Really. Why don't you try to switch disciplines without any training and try to shoot as many arrows as you can in 20 seconds? It took me few weeks to start scoring well when switching from recurve to compound, I'm sure results in first 20 seconds would have been a disaster...


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

I thought it was a great video. Good clean fun. Anybody who thinks otherwise should have a snickers, or change their avatar to this


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## Myth Buster (Mar 27, 2015)

bobnikon said:


> I thought it was a great video. Good clean fun. Anybody who thinks otherwise should have a snickers, or change their avatar to this
> 
> View attachment 3833514


Or buy underwear that don't fit quite so tight!


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

The only thing I thought wrong was the fact they had a time limit and they rushed their shots, it would have shown the whole thing in a better light if they just shot 3 arrows at 30m to see who was the most accurate.


The top Oly shooter here took his sights off and shot BB last year for Indoor 18m Nationals (after he just shot Oly style) and came second to me, I have a lot of respect for that guy. Said next year I will rise to the challenge and also shoot both divs next year.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

zal said:


> Why don't all those magnificent barebow archers then slap on some sights and stabs and win all the olympic medals? I'm sure they'd be drawn like bears to a pot of honey, following the prizes and recognition olympic archery could bring.
> 
> Really. Why don't you try to switch disciplines without any training and try to shoot as many arrows as you can in 20 seconds? It took me few weeks to start scoring well when switching from recurve to compound, I'm sure results in first 20 seconds would have been a disaster...


Agree completely, Zal. 

I thought the video was great fun. But it never occurred to me when I was watching it (obviously Viper is both smarter and more cynical than I) that it would be taken - either ignorantly or knowlingly -the wrong way. 

Some of the insinuations here are junior high level ridiculous - akin to insinuating that IndyCar drivers couldn't do well in race formats where the cars don't have 'all that stuff on them' (front wing, rear wing, etc). Laughable. 

Sigh....


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

AJ the TP Guru said:


> I enjoyed it. Just like as said above, it's a different animal. Actually, all kinds of archery take practice, bb just takes more.


Not if you are satisfied with being mediocre it doesn't.  I know a lot of barebow and "trad" archers who are happy as hell with 5" groups at 18 meters, and even more that wished they could shoot 5" groups. 

If I've said it once, I've said it 1000 times. To be at the top of any discipline requires the same amount of time and dedication. The only distinction I draw between the three main disciplines is that barebow and compound are more mental and recurve is more physical, but that's about all that can be said about the three.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

steve morley said:


> The only thing I thought wrong was the fact they had a time limit and they rushed their shots, it would have shown the whole thing in a better light if they just shot 3 arrows at 30m to see who was the most accurate.
> 
> 
> *The top Oly shooter here took his sights off and shot BB last year for Indoor 18m Nationals (after he just shot Oly style) and came second to me, I have a lot of respect for that guy. Said next year I will rise to the challenge and also shoot both divs next year.*


:darkbeer:


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## ozzypop (Sep 23, 2010)

I would like to see them make a serious one taking it serious just to see how they would really do.


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

John, Steve - 

Really? Impressive ... not.

We had a number of shooters who shot Freestyle (recurve, sight - we didn't call it Olympic then) and Barebow (with hunting bows and for the most part instinctive or rudimentary gap) in the same match, sometimes on top and bottom targets on the same line. A lot of these guys did pretty well in both classes. And these guys weren't "top Oly shooters", just good local guys, getting ready for hunting season and still taking trophies. 

I guess things have changed over the years. 

and Steve -

That was the point, they didn't have to rush their shots. When I was trained to do speed drills with a hunting bow, 4 - 5 arrows in the 4 ring of the blue target in 30 seconds wasn't uncommon - and we lost points for form flubs (such as not anchoring). Yes, we used back quivers and setting up a rhythm was necessary. And no, don't ask me to do it now, that 40 years ago. 

Guess I'm old enough where people video "taping and airing" themselves for giggles just doesn't work for me. 

Viper1 out.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

If they would've used bb setups and their best, practiced, bb form and shot less than exemplary scores on a 300rnd, a whole new group of people would be tearing them to pieces. It's probably safe to say that if any of those guys wanted to set up bb rigs and put time into it then they would be world bb champs. Anyone who knows anything about competitive archery already knows this. People who haven't handled a bow much might think that all those sights and stabs turn you into Robin Hood but all of us know differently. 
I think if they went out and shot a bunch of mid range scores (likely) on a 300 THEN we would actually hear a bunch of "see, it's the sights and stabs and clickers and all that junk on the bow".


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## Viper1 (Aug 21, 2003)

ryan -

And this thread had nothing to do with their shooting ability, just a bad decision, IMHO, of course. 
And frankly, if they did throw middle of the road, or lousy bb 300 scores, maybe that would have said something else, but I don't think they would have. 

Frankly, I would have loved to see some quality shooting from those guys with Samick Sages with no sights etc. THAT would have sent much a better message, especially to new people who look up to them. Think about it, letting a kid know that you don't need 3K worth of equipment hanging off your bow to be a good, if not great shot.

Let's face it, you can read things any way you like. For example, based on the title, it could have been implied, that "traditional" styles of shooting, (you know, no anchor, snap shooting, etc can turn even an elite shooter into a, well, fill in the blank. So, yeah, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. 

I just don't think it was necessary - at all. 

Viper1 out.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

ozzypop said:


> I would like to see them make a serious one taking it serious just to see how they would really do.


You mean like John Magera going from 2004 Olympic team (recurve) to being US Outdoor Barebow National Champion in 2015?


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

> Guess I'm old enough where people video "taping and airing" themselves for giggles just doesn't work for me.


Oh, I don't think that's a guess. 



> I just don't think it was necessary - at all.


And if we want to talk about what's necessary, then shooting holes in paper with bows and arrows ain't it.


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## midwayarcherywi (Sep 24, 2006)

So if a group of pro skeet shooters got together after a competition and shot pistols off hand, would pro pistol shooters take offense? I don't think so. A group of Olympic recurve shooters blowing off steam doing something fun and outside of their expertise just shouldn't engender the type of response some seem to be having. They aren't making fun of anyone. They aren't denigrating another style of shooting. They are goofing off. Cmon people.


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## ryan b. (Sep 1, 2005)

Viper1 said:


> ryan -
> 
> And this thread had nothing to do with their shooting ability, just a bad decision, IMHO, of course.
> And frankly, if they did throw middle of the road, or lousy bb 300 scores, maybe that would have said something else, but I don't think they would have.
> ...


Well I like your idea with the Samick sage etc. 
It would be cool to see a bunch of high level bb shooting with longbows (things that look like longbows I mean) too. 

I think everyone is just talking about different things here. I think it was fun and light hearted and I also think it would be cool to see them take it seriously with some tuned setups. 2 different things. I don't mind the screwing around. It's akin to having someone who's a stud in a throwing or batting/swinging sport start messing around throwing or swinging with their off hand. Just messin around.


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

Viper1 said:


> John, Steve -
> 
> Really? Impressive ... not.
> 
> ...


Yes times have changed, think the serious Oly shooters are more dedicated to that shooting style and less likely to try different things, that's why I have respect for the guy for doing it. It's not often people shoot two different styles in the same tourney, at least not on this side of the pond.

I shot with him yesterday, teased him into shooting WA World Field champs in Dublin, he seems slightly curious so I'll have to do more work, invited him to shoot some practice rounds on our course as he was concerned about the unmarked rounds. We already have a womans team in place, just need this guy an we have a full compliment of men.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Viper1 said:


> John, Steve -
> 
> Really? Impressive ... not.
> 
> ...


To shoot reasonably well with different discipline need practise......why they would do that? They will lose training time for recurve - they are fully paid professionals so they cannot afford it. There is no need for them to know how to anchor BB.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> To shoot reasonably well with different discipline need practise......*why they would do that?* They will lose training time for recurve - *they are fully paid professionals *so they cannot afford it. There is no need for them to know how to anchor BB.


That pretty much sums up where this sport is headed, which I believe is a real shame.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> That pretty much sums up where this sport is headed, which I believe is a real shame.


Ok, even when they are not professionals....but just want to shoot their best, why would they dedicate their time to different style?


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## Ms.Speedmaster (Dec 10, 2010)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> Ok, even when they are not professionals....but just want to shoot their best, why would they dedicate their time to different style?


For grins. Life is too short to not play a little and experience new things. Not unlike an archer who also plays golf. And there's a difference between dedicating time to learning something, over just taking a little effort to do something new. 

After our state shoot was over, yesterday, a few archers grabbed some Samick Polaris bows off my wall and shot for fun with some noodley arrows. Including a national title holder. Wish I had a camera rolling at the time. It would have made a great YT vid.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

Ms.Speedmaster said:


> For grins. Life is too short to not play a little and experience new things. Not unlike an archer who also plays golf. And there's a difference between dedicating time to learning something, over just taking a little effort to do something new.
> 
> After our state shoot was over, yesterday, a few archers grabbed some Samick Polaris bows off my wall and shot for fun with some noodley arrows. Including a national title holder. Wish I had a camera rolling at the time. It would have made a great YT vid.


Agree.....for just having fun, why not (and that's what these 3 guys just done). But for try to do it properly you need time.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Ar-Pe-Lo said:


> Ok, even when they are not professionals....but just want to shoot their best, why would they dedicate their time to different style?


There are actually some very valid reasons for cross-training between the three disciplines, and a few elite archers understand this.


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## Last_Bastion (Dec 5, 2013)

limbwalker said:


> There are actually some very valid reasons for cross-training between the three disciplines, and a few elite archers understand this.


Wholeheartedly agree!

Would you mind expanding on some of those? I have my own reasons why it's a good idea, but would enjoy seeing you input


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

limbwalker said:


> There are actually some very valid reasons for cross-training between the three disciplines, and a few elite archers understand this.


I've found that compound and BB are very complimentary, but Olympic didn't play well with any other style. It seemed like the focus was just too different.


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## tunedlow (Nov 7, 2012)

I think barebow is a serious style of archery. Some folks that prefer Olympic Recurve with all the doodads just tailored their form to shoot that way - just like how some barebow guys have tailored their form according to their own preference. All depends on what you like to shoot. I think the three guys were having fun and wanted to see if they had what it took to shoot without all the equipment they typically have on their bows.


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

I loved the video - they were just horseplaying around and having fun, and for twentysomethings that always seems to have to include posting a video (it's just their reflex instinct these days, I guess). But some of the comments here are insufferable. Sooo, Brady is a 3-time World Cup Recurve champion (doodads on his bow), is a junior world compound champion (more doodads on his bow), but this video 'shows' that he doesn't "have what it takes to shoot" unless he's loaded up with doodads ? ... Good grief ...

Tony, now I'm gnashing my teeth right along with you ...


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Last_Bastion said:


> Wholeheartedly agree!
> 
> Would you mind expanding on some of those? I have my own reasons why it's a good idea, but would enjoy seeing you input


Maybe on another thread.

I can't believe this one is still going.


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## Ar-Pe-Lo (Oct 16, 2011)

limbwalker said:


> There are actually some very valid reasons for cross-training between the three disciplines, and a few elite archers understand this.


As you usually say "when I see Korean archer do that I will pay attention"


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

Our archers could learn quite a bit about cross training from the Koreans.


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## Halfcawkt (Dec 27, 2015)

Wow! I watch World Cup quite a bit. I have a ton of respect for all of the archers in both vids. I did not take either one to imply that these gifted competitors are not capable of shooting a naked bow as well as I do. Any one of them shoots groups at 70m that I would be happy with @ 40yrd. I have never been in the presence of an "oly" rig, let alone shot one. That does not mean I don't appreciate the skills the competitors exhibit on a daily basis. I tend to get too wrapped up in equipment tuning, so I know "oly" gear would be toxic to good form for me. All I took those vids to mean was those shooters were not overly familiar with the process of hitting the mark with a sightless bow. I really enjoyed Katuna with something other than her standard "terminator" countenance. If people take to mean the things that viper fears, all that proves is their small mindedness. I respect vipers years of string time, and do not bother having an opinion on anything he has spoken about in deference to his experience. But this time, I feel you may need to relax, sir. At the same time, I see what you mean. Some silly people will walk away feeling the way you are warning they will, but it says more about those people than it does those fine competitors.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

Looked like the typical new guy trying to shoot 'Trad' - yank it back, don't even get close to anchor and let her rip....way before you had time to aim and execute a decent shot. What is it that make people think you can take off all the stuff that assists in consistency, through form out the window and expect to hit anything? And Brady has been coached..........


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## ranchoarcher (Sep 26, 2013)

Intent is in the eye of the beholder. It could be seen as offensive, conspiracy based, or just being silly. Those guys would do well within a day or so barebow if they put some effort into it beating 99% of the existing crowd. Having the trinkets on a bow doesn't guarantee diddly. Quite often it can make a mediocre trad shooter who tries it embarrassing if it's not done right.


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## J. Wesbrock (Dec 17, 2003)

Some people would complain that ice cream is too cold.


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## bobnikon (Jun 10, 2012)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Some people would complain that ice cream is too cold.


And too tasty


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

on and on and on .... "... Brady couldn't find his anchor, looked like a typical yahoo yankin'r back and lettin'r rip ... "...Brady can't shoot without all the doodads" is just a laughable notion. Akin to saying Baryshnikov can't do any kind of dancing beside classical ballet ... oh, wait! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImzkWZkaIIM#t=39.498


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

*Baryshnikov*....rich.........it's good to know people still drink. Good times! Still, what is the definition of modern trad? I shot in Grays Harbor last weekend and some ol' salt flipped my sh*t about my bow. It was more about how trad has changed over the years. And yes, sometimes ice cream is so frig'n cold it bends my spoon. What color was that fletch?
It's time for the *"airing of grievances" *, I think my dog has ESP......he always poops right were I step.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

It's a full moon in late winter. I guess we shouldn't be surprised.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

Lol....


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## steve morley (Dec 24, 2005)

J. Wesbrock said:


> Some people would complain that ice cream is too cold.


Only when I stuff it in my mouth all at once. :lol:


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

equilibrium said:


> *Baryshnikov*....rich.........it's good to know people still drink. Good times! Still, what is the definition of modern trad? I shot in Grays Harbor last weekend and some ol' salt flipped my sh*t about my bow. It was more about how trad has changed over the years. And yes, sometimes ice cream is so frig'n cold it bends my spoon. What color was that fletch?
> It's time for the *"airing of grievances" *, I think my dog has ESP......he always poops right were I step.


Unlike the incoherence of equilibrium's post, which was pretty blatant (although I did like the Festivus reference), I agree that the Baryshnikov analogy was subtle (but I think cogent) ... but for those unsubtle folk, this: as John alluded to, any archery athlete who has the strength and subtlety, passion and perseverance, concentration, skill set, and analytical ability to attain world class status in any of the archery disciplines, would be able to achieve high level status in other disciplines in pretty short order. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this video, which was some young guys goofing off and having fun, not 'we're really trying here to excel at barebow'.


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## centershot (Sep 13, 2002)

lksseven said:


> on and on and on .... "... Brady couldn't find his anchor, looked like a typical yahoo yankin'r back and lettin'r rip ... "...Brady can't shoot without all the doodads" is just a laughable notion. Akin to saying Baryshnikov can't do any kind of dancing beside classical ballet ... oh, wait! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImzkWZkaIIM#t=39.498


Nobody said he can't - but in that video, well - he did not. I'm sure with a little time they would all be excellent barebow shooters if they chose to be. But from that video, there is room for improvement.


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## equilibrium (Oct 31, 2006)

lksseven said:


> Unlike the incoherence of equilibrium's post, which was pretty blatant (although I did like the Festivus reference), I agree that the Baryshnikov analogy was subtle (but I think cogent) ... but for those unsubtle folk, this: as John alluded to, any archery athlete who has the strength and subtlety, passion and perseverance, concentration, skill set, and analytical ability to attain world class status in any of the archery disciplines, would be able to achieve high level status in other disciplines in pretty short order. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this video, which was some young guys goofing off and having fun, not 'we're really trying here to excel at barebow'.


Incoherence..I beg to differ. "Unlike the incoherence of equilibrium's post, which was pretty blatant (although I did like the Festivus reference)" means you even understood. Secondly, All my other comments were in line with other issues from this post. Ice cream was mentioned, something about a vane. Finally, like so many others here, I was keeping it light and remembering that it's archery and the most important aspect is having fun..that's it.


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## rsarns (Sep 23, 2008)

equilibrium said:


> Incoherence..I beg to differ. "Unlike the incoherence of equilibrium's post, which was pretty blatant (although I did like the Festivus reference)" means you even understood. Secondly, All my other comments were in line with other issues from this post. Ice cream was mentioned, something about a vane. Finally, like so many others here, I was keeping it light and remembering that it's archery and the most important aspect is having fun..that's it.


I think, nobody, lost his balance?


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## lksseven (Mar 21, 2010)

equilibrium said:


> Incoherence..I beg to differ. "Unlike the incoherence of equilibrium's post, which was pretty blatant (although I did like the Festivus reference)" means you even understood. Secondly, All my other comments were in line with other issues from this post. Ice cream was mentioned, something about a vane. Finally, like so many others here, I was keeping it light and remembering that it's archery and the most important aspect is having fun..that's it.


Incoherent (loose b : lacking orderly continuity, arrangement,) isn't really about being able to understand some of it. But, in any case, I guess I saw the 'some people still drink' (not sure my two beers a week qualifies, :darkbeer: ) and glinted a little bit. So, apologies.


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## grantmac (May 31, 2007)

Hand someone who only shoots recurve a compound with a hinge and tell them they have 20 seconds to get as many accurate arrows downrange as possible. Best case scenario they walk away with all their teeth.


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## limbwalker (Sep 26, 2003)

LOL. That's the truth.


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## Vittorio (Jul 17, 2003)

grantmac said:


> Hand someone who only shoots recurve a compound with a hinge and tell them they have 20 seconds to get as many accurate arrows downrange as possible. Best case scenario they walk away with all their teeth.


Generally 3 arrows with cliker and recurve/olympic is the limit in 20 seconds, if you don't mind for the score, ... But I remember a 10-10-10 at 18 mt in 17 seconds.... in competition, long , long time ago...


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## cpnhgnlngct (Dec 9, 2010)

This post got called out on the Easton Podcast's latest episode. 

And I tend to agree with their opinions about it too... 

Lighten up.


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